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Buses in London

Buses have been used as a mode of public transport in London since 1829, when George Shillibeer started operating a horse-drawn omnibus service from Paddington to the City of London. In the decades since their introduction, the red London bus has become a symbol of the city.

, London has 675 bus routes served by over 8,700 buses, almost all of which are operated by private companies under contract to (and regulated by) London Buses, part of the publicly-owned Transport for London. Over 1,400 buses in the fleet are battery electric and hydrogen fuel cell buses, the second largest zero emission bus fleet in Europe (behind Moscow). In 2006, London became one of the first major cities in the world to have an accessible, low floor bus fleet.

History
Buses have been used on the streets of London since 1829, when George Shillibeer started operating his horse-drawn omnibus service from Paddington to the City. In 1850, Thomas Tilling started horse bus services, and in 1855 the London General Omnibus Company (LGOC) was founded to amalgamate and regulate the horse-drawn omnibus services then operating in London.

The LGOC began using motor omnibuses in 1902, and manufactured them itself from 1909. In 1904, Thomas Tilling started its first motor bus service. The last LGOC horse-drawn bus ran on 25 October 1911, although independent operators used them until 1914.

In 1909, Thomas Tilling and the LGOC entered into an agreement to pool their resources. The agreement restricted the expansion of Thomas Tilling in London, and allowed the LGOC to lead an amalgamation of most of London's bus services. However, also in 1909, Thomas Clarkson started the National Steam Car Company to run steam buses in London in competition with the LGOC. In 1919, the National company reached agreement with the LGOC to withdraw from bus operation in London, and steam bus services ceased later that year.

Initially, buses in London were regulated with very limited oversight, licensed by the Police in a similar manner as taxicabs are licensed today, anyone could provide a bus service according to their best commercial judgement. After the First World War, many demobilised soliders had learned to operate and maintain heavy vehicles like buses and established bus companies. In 1922, the Chocolate Express ran its first services, and many other independent operators entered the market until by 1924, the market was saturated with small independent bus companies which depressed patronage from established railways and larger bus companies – the worst affected being the London County Council's tramways which ran at a deficit. Management's efforts to control costs lead to a strike across the whole network, which was shortly followed by the major bus companies and railways in London.

Some of the bus operators in London included;

 * Birch Brothers
 * London Public Omnibus Company
 * Orange Omnibus Company Ltd.
 * Admiral Omnibus
 * Premier Omnibus Company
 * Watford Omnibus
 * Ashley and Westwood Omnibuses
 * St. Alban's & District
 * East Surrey
 * National Omnibus Company
 * Thomas Tilling
 * London General Omnibus Company
 * Chocolate Express
 * Prince Omnibus
 * City Motor Omnibus Ltd.
 * Renown
 * United
 * Overground
 * Imperial of Romford
 * Amersham & District Motor Bus & Haulage Co.Ltd
 * Elite Omnibus Service of Watford
 * Woking & District
 * Capitol Buses
 * Westminster Omnibus Company
 * Sevenoaks Motor Services
 * Darenth Bus Service
 * Royal Highlander
 * Henry Turner of Wandsworth
 * The Reliable Omnibus & Motor Coaches

London Passenger Transport Board to London Regional Transport
In 1912, the Underground Electric Railways Company of London (UERL), which at that time owned most of the London Underground, bought the LGOC. In 1933, the LGOC, along with the rest of the UERL, became part of the new London Passenger Transport Board (LPTB). The name London General was replaced by London Transport, which became synonymous with the red London bus.

Bus numbers were first used in 1906. When the independent firms started in 1922, they used General route numbers, along with alphabetical suffixes to denote branch routes, so, for instance, the 36A ran parallel to the 36 for most of its route. In 1924, under the London Traffic Act, the Metropolitan Police was authorised to allocate route numbers, which all buses had to carry.

Under the direction of the Chief Constable responsible for traffic, A. E. Bassom, the LGOC were allocated numbers 1-199; the independent bus companies 200-299; country routes north of the Thames, working into the Metropolitan Police area, 300-399; country routes south of the Thames, working into the Metropolitan Police area, 400-499; Thames Valley routes working into the Met area, 500-510. All short, early morning, weekend or other special duties were to be given a suffix from the alphabet. To make way for these suffixes, previous suffix routes, denoting a branch, had to be renumbered in the one hundreds, so therefore, 36A became 136. Soon there were not enough route numbers and the police had to allocate 511-599 to the independents and 600-699 to the LGOC.

This ultimately led to chaos, and in the London Passenger Transport Act 1933 the power to allocate route numbers was taken away from the police and handed once again to professional busmen. Suffixes were gradually abolished over the decades, the last such route in London being the 77A, which became the 87 in June 2006.

The LPTB, under Lord Ashfield, assumed responsibility for all bus services in the London Passenger Transport Area, an area with a radius of about 30 miles from Central London. This included the London General country buses (later to be London Transport's green buses), Green Line Coaches and the services of several Tilling Group and independent companies.

London buses continued to operate under the London Transport name from 1933 to 2000, although the political management of transport services changed several times. The LPTB oversaw transport from 1933 to 1947, when it was nationalised and became the London Transport Executive (1948 to 1962). The responsible authority for London Transport was then successively the London Transport Board (1963 to 1969), the Greater London Council (1970 to 1984) and London Regional Transport (1984 to 2000). However, in 1969, a new law transferred the green country services, outside the area of the Greater London Council, to the recently formed National Bus Company. Trading under the name London Country, the green buses and Green Line Coaches became the responsibility of a new NBC subsidiary, London Country Bus Services, on 1 January 1970.

Despite a comprehensive replacement of the bus fleet in the early 1950s, bus ridership fell dramatically – from 4.5 billion in 1950, to 3.1 billion by 1962 – while private car ownership rapidly increased. A seven day strike in 1958 and a fall in London's population by over a million people exacerbated the fall in ridership.

A former network of express buses operated by London Transport in Central London was the Red Arrows. The routes, all numbered in the 500s, ran from main line stations to various locations in the West End and City. They were introduced in 1966 and expanded in 1968, but in the 1990s they were gradually phased out, with the last two routes withdrawn in 2023.

In 1974, Jill Viner became the first female bus driver for London Transport.

In 1979, the operation of London's buses under the GLC was divided among eight areas or districts:

The districts were later reorganised and reduced to six (with the abolition of Tower and Watling), and, following the Transport Act of 1985, were done away with in 1989 with privatisation imminent.

Privatisation
In the 1980s the government of Margaret Thatcher decided to privatise the bus operating industry in Great Britain. At the time, local bus transport was dominated by London Transport in London, and in other major cities by large municipally owned operators, as well as by the government-owned National Bus Company and Scottish Bus Group elsewhere. The Transport Act 1985 brought about bus deregulation throughout Great Britain which opened up local bus operation to private operators and required municipal companies to operate independently of local government on a commercial basis.

However, the Transport Act 1985 did not apply in London – instead, the London Regional Transport Act 1984 required that an arms-length subsidiary company of London Transport called London Buses to be set up. London Buses would specify details of routes, fares and services levels, and the running of bus services would be contracted to private companies on a tendered basis. From 1985, bus routes were gradually tendered out to private companies, with London Buses split into business units from 1989. These business units were sold off in the private sector in the mid 1990s. Controversially, private operators were allowed to run buses in colours other than the traditional red. Following a campaign by tourism groups, tender specifications since 1997 specify that buses in London be 80% red.

Despite proposals from the Government in the 1990s to deregulate bus routes in London, the bus tendering regime is still in place today, with individual bus routes put out to competitive tendering by private companies. In 2024, Mayor of London Sadiq Khan pledged to bring bus routes back into public ownership as contracts expire.

Growth
In 2000, as part of the formation of the new Greater London Authority, the management of buses in London moved from the central government controlled London Regional Transport to the Mayor of London's transport body, Transport for London (TfL). Upon appointment in 2000, the new Mayor of London, Ken Livingstone did not have the power to improve Tube service. Instead, investment was directed to increasing the number of, and the frequency of London's bus routes – assisted by income from the congestion charge.

Ridership subsequently rose rapidly, with 19% growth in passengers between 1999/00 and 2002/03, with ridership was at levels last seen in the late 1960s. Between 2000 and 2006, ridership growth was at 40% in London, while ridership in the rest of the country fell by 6%. The bus fleet grew to cope with demand, from around 5,500 buses to over 8,000. Traffic speeds across London improved, and levels of air pollution in central London decreased.

Vehicles
, the London Buses fleet total of 8,776 buses includes 3,826 hybrid buses, 1,397 battery electric buses, and 20 hydrogen fuel cell buses. The zero emission fleet is the largest in Europe, ahead of Moscow. All buses have been accessible and low floor since 2006, one of the first major cities in the world to achieve this.

The various bus operators operate a wide variety of vehicles, about the only immediately obvious common feature being their use of a largely red livery (mandatory since 1997). For each bus route, London Buses sets a specification for buses to be used, with the choice of particular vehicle that meets the specification left up to the operator. Particular examples of London Buses specification include the use of separate exit doors (increasingly unusual on buses in the United Kingdom outside London) and, on double-deckers, the use of a straight staircase. Additionally, London Buses has previously specified that vehicles operating in London use traditional printed roller destination blinds, whereas in most other parts of the country, electronic dot matrix or LED displays are the norm on new buses.

History
From the early days of motor bus operation by the London General Omnibus Company (LGOC) in the 1900s (decade) until the 1960s, London went its own way, designing its own vehicles specially for London use rather than using the bus manufacturers' standard products used elsewhere. The Associated Equipment Company (AEC) was created as a subsidiary of the LGOC in 1912 to build buses and other equipment for its parent company, and continued in the ownership of LGOC and its successors until 1962. Many of London's local service buses over this period were built by AEC, although other manufacturers also built buses to London designs, or modified their own designs for use in London.

The last bus specifically designed for London was the AEC Routemaster, built between 1956 and 1968. Since then, buses built for London's local services have all been variants of models built for general use elsewhere, although bus manufacturers would routinely offer a 'London specification' to meet specific London requirements. Some manufacturers even went so far as to build new models with London in mind such as the Daimler Fleetline and Leyland Titan.

London did see the introduction of several of the newly emerging minibus and midibus models in the 1980s and 1990s, in a bid to up the frequency on routes, although the use of these buses dropped off to the level of niche operation on routes not suitable for full size buses.

Introduction of low floor buses
London was one of the earliest major users of low-floor buses, with the first low-floor single decker vehicles entering service in 1993 and the first low-floor double decker vehicles entering service in 1998. From 2002, the mainstay of the fleet, double-decker buses, were augmented with a fleet of articulated buses, rising to a peak fleet size of 393 Mercedes-Benz Citaros. These were introduced to help replace the (high-floor) AEC Routemaster, as well as to cope with an increased capacity. Following withdrawal of older, high floor vehicles, the bus fleet became fully accessible at the end of 2005, 10 years ahead of the national requirement.

New Routemaster and bendy bus withdrawal

In the 2008 London mayoral election campaign, prospective mayor Boris Johnson made several commitments to change the London Buses vehicle policy, namely to introduce a new Routemaster, and remove the bendy buses. Johnson was elected to office on 4 May 2008, and on 4 July 2008 Transport for London announced the New Bus for London Competition, in which conceptual and detailed design proposals would be sought for a new hybrid Routemaster, with development of a design that could be put into production hoped for completion by 2012 (the expected date of the next mayoral election).

In August 2008, the Commissioner of Transport for London Peter Hendy announced that the withdrawal of the bendy buses would take place, starting in 2009. To reduce additional costs to TfL, the articulated buses would be withdrawn as their 5-year operating contracts came up for renewal, with the replacement buses being decided by operators. Options for replacement would not preclude such measures as tri-axle buses. However, research by London TravelWatch in 2008 indicated that replacing articulated buses with double decker models would be more expensive, as additional vehicles would be required to maintain overall route capacity (capacity of 85 per bus versus 120).

The first buses to be withdrawn would be the Red Arrow fleet on routes 507 and 521 in May 2009. The last were withdrawn on 9 December 2011. In May 2010, Mayor of London Boris Johnson unveiled the design of the New Routemaster, the proposed replacement for the Routemaster as an iconic standard bus for exclusive use in London. The buses, designed by Heatherwick Studio and built by Wrightbus feature two staircases, three doors and an open platform allowing passengers to hop on and off, and commenced operating in 2012. In December 2011 the British car magazine Autocar praised the New Routemaster in a road test, rating it ahead of contemporary and historic buses.

However, in December 2016 the new Mayor of London Sadiq Khan decided that no more orders would be placed for the bus after only 1,000 of Johnson's envisaged fleet of 2,000 had been procured. In 2020 Transport for London announced that the New Routemasters would be converted so passengers only enter by the front door, with the middle and rear doors becoming exit-only. This was done to reduce fare evasion, which had been double that of other London buses.

Transition to zero emission bus fleet
Since the early 1990s, efforts have been underway to reduce the emissions of the bus fleet. Early work involved replacing older buses like the AEC Routemaster and fitting particulate filters to exhausts. In the 2000s, hybrid and hydrogen fuel cell buses were trialed – and the first hybrid buses entered service in 2006. It was originally intended that every bus introduced into service after 2012 would be a hybrid, but this requirement was later dropped.

Battery electric buses first entered service in 2014, and double decker hydrogen fuel buses were introduced in 2021. London now has the second largest zero-emission bus fleet in Europe with over 1,400 battery electric and hydrogen fuel cell buses in service. In 2021, it was announced that all buses in the fleet meet or exceed Euro VI emission standards, following the phasing out of older buses, the retrofitting of diesel vehicles and the introduction of new hybrid & electric buses.

The Mayor of London is currently aiming for a zero emission bus fleet by 2037. From 2021, all new buses entering the fleet are either electric or hydrogen zero emission buses.

Local buses
Most local buses within London form a network managed by London Buses, an arm of Transport for London. Services are operated by private sector companies under contract to London Buses. With the introduction of the London congestion charge in central London and because at peak times the Underground is operating at maximum capacity, many bus service improvements have been undertaken, and central bus services are currently enjoying something of a resurgence.

Although the rear-entrance double-deck AEC Routemaster is the archetypal London bus, they were withdrawn in the early 2000s owing to their age, their inability to comply with disability legislation or accept wheelchairs or pushchairs, and their requirement for a two-person crew.

All other local bus services are now operated by modern low-floor buses, which may be single-deck or double-deck. Most buses operating in London have two sets of doors, and passengers board the bus using the front door and alight using the rear door, whilst some buses on less busy routes have only one door. Since 2006, all buses are low-floor and accessible, accepting passengers in wheelchairs and other mobility impaired passengers.

Following the privatisation of London bus services in the 1990s, the operating contracts for local buses in London are subject to a system of competitive tender. A wide range of companies now operate bus routes across London. Many services have been contracted out to leading transport groups such as Arriva, ComfortDelGro, Go-Ahead Group, RATP Group, Stagecoach, Transport UK Group and Abellio, Transit Systems. Connex, FirstGroup, National Express and Transdev previously operated services in London.

Limited stop / Express routes
A small number of bus routes (namely routes SL1, SL2, SL5, SL6, SL7, SL8, SL9 and SL10, run a daily limited-stop service, travelling a long distance but serving few stops in its route. These became part of the wider London Superloop express bus network in 2023.

Other bus services
Some local bus routes in the outer areas of London cross the London boundary. London Buses services that cross the boundary have standard red buses, and charge London fares for the whole length. Buses from outside London that cross into London are in their operators' own colour schemes, and may not accept the London fares even within the boundary.

Privately run bus services may also be operated independently of the regulated London bus network, but still require a permit from TfL. This permit applies to any service which has a stop in London and another within 15 miles of Greater London, such as commuter coaches, school buses and supermarket shuttle buses.

Night buses
Night buses began running as early as 1913, and they form part of the London Buses network. For many years until 1961, the night routes were numbered from around 280 to 299. But the imminent withdrawal of trolleybuses meant that numbers between 1 and 299 were in short supply. The 280+ route numbers were freed by giving night bus routes a prefix N for the first time. For example, while route 9 travels from Aldwych to Hammersmith, route N9 continues a further 16 miles (26 km) from Hammersmith to Heathrow Terminal 5.

There are also 24-hour routes, which run throughout the day and night. These do not have distinguishing numbers. Some of these only run at night during weekends, whereas others run throughout the week.

Heritage routes
Following the withdrawal of rear-entrance double-deck AEC Routemaster from all regular service routes in 2005, a small fleet was retained to operate on heritage routes. As the AEC Routemaster buses were not accessible to passengers in wheelchairs and other mobility impaired passengers, the heritage route was operated as a short-working of a regular service route bearing the same route number, thus ensuring that passengers unable to board the heritage buses are offered equivalent alternative transport arrangements.

Initially running on route 9 and route 15, Route 9H was withdrawn on 26 July 2014. In 2019, the remaining heritage route 15 was cut back to a seasonal service, running on weekends and bank holidays through the summer. In 2021, TfL announced that the heritage route would not return following the COVID-19 pandemic.

In 2022, a private operator started operating 'Route A', a tourist focused heritage route between Piccadilly Circus and London Waterloo using AEC Routemaster buses. Unlike previous heritage routes, a higher fare is charged.

Tour buses
A common sight in central London are tour buses, the majority being open-top buses. These are double-decker buses with a fully or partially open upper deck, which provide tourist services with either live or recorded commentary. Most of these services allow passengers to embark and disembark at any of the company's stops, continuing their journey on a later bus.

There are several competing operators of such services which do not form part of the London Buses network and do not issue or accept London Buses tickets, although at least one paints its buses in the same red as London's local buses.

Other tours use coaches and generally need to be booked in advance through travel agents.

Long distance coaches
Long-distance coaches link London with the rest of the United Kingdom and with other cities across the European mainland. Many domestic services are run by National Express, with international services mainly provided by Flixbus and Eurolines. National Express' predominantly white vehicles are common on the roads of central London, on their way to and from their terminus at Victoria Coach Station.

In 2006, competition for long-distance traffic was introduced by Megabus, a subsidiary of the large UK bus operating company Stagecoach. This company operates cheap services aimed at students and the like, which must be booked in advance on the internet.

Other coach services link London to medium-distance destinations, and unlike National Express or Megabus provide walk-on fares. Good examples of this are the Green Line services to the Home Counties, mainly operated by Arriva, the service to the city of Oxford, where Stagecoach's frequent Oxford Tube service competes with Go-Ahead's similar Oxford Express service, and the many commuter services to medium-distance destinations operated by individual coach companies during peak times.

Airport buses
National Express is also the principal airport bus operator, serving Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted with its National Express Airport brand. Unlike their longer distance cousins, these are walk-on services, which serve stops throughout central London rather than running to Victoria Coach Station.

Bus priority and bus lanes
, London has over 304 km of bus lanes, which generally restrict use of a traffic lane to buses, taxis, motorcyclists and cyclists. Bus lanes are clearly marked with road markings and signs, and sometimes with red paving. Other bus priority measures used in London include over 4000 traffic lights that give buses priority, dedicated bus queue jump lanes and bus gates. Some streets (such as Oxford Street) are entirely designated as bus lanes, with no access for general traffic. Bus priority is enforced by TfL, usually by closed-circuit television or cameras mounted to the front of buses.

Bus lanes
The first bus lane in London was introduced on Vauxhall Bridge on 26 February 1968. This bus lane was estimated to have saved "up to 182 hours of passenger time" each day. In 1972, Oxford Street was designated a bus lane during peak hours, reportedly causing an increase of £250,000 in retail sales. By 1977, over 130 bus lanes had been installed across London, totalling around 40 km in length. Despite this, London Transport considered that bus lanes were "spread thinly" across London, with many bottlenecks remaining. From the early 1990s, work to address substantial traffic congestion in London led to the introduction of red routes (which prohibit vehicles stopping, loading or unloading along them), as well as a larger rollout of bus lanes. By 1997, over 377 bus lanes were in place across London. Research showed that bus routes with bus lanes along them had journey time improvements of around 14 per cent, as well as ridership improvements around 15 per cent. Enforcement of bus lanes with cameras began in 1997.

In 2020, TfL announced that they would convert all bus lanes in London to 24/7 operation. This was made permanent in December 2021, with TfL stating that bus journey times had reduced and service reliability had improved. TfL aims to add 25 km more bus lanes by 2025.

Traffic light priority
Following a successful large-scale trial in 1987, London Transport began introducing selective vehicle detection to provide traffic light bus priority in the 1990s. This delivered journey time savings, as well as increased service reliability and reduced costs, as a smaller number of vehicles were required to deliver the same frequency. For example, it was estimated that route 15 could have a journey time 4 minutes shorter, due to the number of selective vehicle detection points passed.

Selective vehicle detection was replaced by the iBus system in the late 2000s, which uses the Global Positioning System instead of physical roadside equipment. iBus which tracks all London's buses, allowing passengers to be provided with audio-visual announcements and improved information on bus arrivals, as well as triggering bus priority at traffic lights. All buses in London were fitted with the iBus system by 2009. The system can shorten red traffic lights or extend green lights as necessary to give buses priority, with some traffic lights only giving priority when buses are delayed. A new iBus system will be introduced from the mid 2020s.

Bus and coach stations
There are around 50 bus and coach stations across London, located at transport interchanges, town centres and other major destinations such as shopping centres and hospitals. The busiest coach station in London is Victoria Coach Station, which serves around 14 million passengers a year. Cromwell Road bus station in Kingston upon Thames is the largest London Buses bus station, with 17 bus stands.

Major accidents and incidents

 * October 1940: LT 669, operating on route 88, was abandoned by its passengers and crew on Balham High Road seconds before a bomb fell, creating a huge crater into which the bus rolled. It was hauled out of the crater two weeks later.
 * 13 June 1957: RTL 780, operating on route 7 collided with a queue of people at a bus stop in Oxford Street, resulting in eight deaths. The driver had collapsed with heat exhaustion.
 * 18 February 1996: An explosive device detonated prematurely on a route 171 Catford to Holborn double-decker bus, operated by London Central, in Aldwych. The bomb killed Edward O'Brien, the IRA terrorist transporting the device, and injuring eight others including the driver. The force ripped the bus apart, destroying its front.
 * 7 July 2005: An explosion occurred as part of a coordinated attack on London on a route 30 Hackney Wick to Marble Arch double-decker bus, operated by Stagecoach London, in Tavistock Square. The force ripped the roof off the top deck and destroyed the back of the bus, killing thirteen passengers and the suicide bomber.
 * 21 July 2005: A suicide bomber attempted to explode a bomb as part of a second coordinated attack on London on a route 26 Waterloo station to Hackney Wick double-decker bus, operated by Stagecoach London, in Haggerston. The device failed to detonate properly and there were no injuries.
 * 20 December 2013: 30 people were injured, and two critically, after a double-decker on route 59 crashed into a tree while swerving to avoid hitting a car in Kennington.
 * 4 June 2014: 10 people on a night route N38 bus in Clapton were injured after the bus was smashed into by a passenger car racing at speeds of around 100 mph. The driver of the car lost his life and his front-seat passenger was critically injured.
 * 18 July 2015: The roof of a double-decker on route 197 in South Norwood was ripped off under a bridge, with seven people injured.
 * 15 May 2016: 17 people including four children were wounded when a double-decker bus operating on route 18 crashed into a shop in the town centre of Harlesden.
 * 31 October 2019: A major road accident involving the route R11, route 358 and a car in Orpington, with one of the bus drivers losing his life and 15 others wounded.
 * 25 January 2022: 19 people were injured after a double-decker bus operating on route 212 crashed into a shop in Highams Park.
 * 18 May 2024: A single-decker Alexander Dennis Enviro200 bus on route 490 burnt down to a shell in the London Borough of Richmond upon Thames. Everybody was evacuated with no fatalities.

Media

A revamped London bus has been used to promote the work of British artist Sir Peter Blake. An anthropomorphic Routemaster named Topper Deckington III is a fictional character in the Pixar movie Cars 2. In America: The Motion Picture the London buses appears as Walkers from Star Wars

Facts and figures
Note that these figures only take Transport for London services into consideration, and exclude school and other bus services.

, the London Buses fleet total of 8,776 buses includes 3,826 hybrid buses, 1,397 battery electric buses, and 20 hydrogen fuel cell buses.

Route 18, running between Sudbury and Euston bus station is the busiest bus route. The service carried over 16.6 million passengers in 2018/19. The next busiest routes (over 10 million) are: 25, 29, 140, 149, 243, 207, 86, 36, 38, 5, 279, 53, 109, 141 and 43.

Route U9 has the highest mean observed speed of daytime routes, at 18.8 mph. The slowest was 15H at 3.8 mph.

Route SL7, running from Croydon to Heathrow Airport, is the longest daytime route at 24 miles. The next longest are routes 166, 358 and 465 (all 17 miles), 111 and 246 (16 miles) and 492 (15 miles).

title: Buses in London


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Talk:List of doping cases in sport

Rename
(Should Terry Bradshaw be on this list?) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.18.129.254 (talk) 11:25, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

This might work better as "Athletes who have been punished as a result of drug infractions". Less POV that way.

Lyellin 10:01, Aug 11, 2004 (UTC)

I am certainly willing. Let it stay like this for a day or two and then I will act on the consensus of the comments. PaulinSaudi 10:13, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)]]

Not sure whether a new page is needed for this, but it should at least be made clear of the athletes that have since been cleared of all charges (e.g. Greg Rusedski). CheekyMonkey 10:35, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I am impressed, awed, fascinated, by how quickly this page has grown. I began it because I could not find anything like it on the net. Did I miss it somewhere? PaulinSaudi 16:47, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)]]
 * http://cyclisme.dopage.free.fr/ had a long list of pro road cyclists that tested positive for banned substances, but I cannot find it on their site anymore (perhaps because I cannot navigate French sites well?) Peoplesunionpro 21:25, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

Props to you for starting it. It's a really fun page. As for the name, I would prefer a shorter name (as they are easier to find/use). Eric B. and Rakim 23:18, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I can't think of a shorter/easier name than this. I think this name is less POV than "Athletes who have been punished as a result of drug infractions". That name implies that the person has willingly and knowingly taken banned substances, which is not always a certainty. "List of athletes found guilty of using banned drugs" refers to the fact that they have been found guilty, not to their being guilty. That is an important distinction to make. Aecis 12:34, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I like Drug Cheats. PaulinSaudi 16:22, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)]]

 * I added Bonds and Giambi. I realize they were not 'found guilty,' but still. PaulinSaudi 11:40, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)]]

But still what? You can't name something like this and then have the list be inaccurate. Ken Camanitti was never found guilty either. Fix the name or get rid of it.

Bonds and Giambi
I think they belong here at this point. I wish you (User:129.125.145.96 (Bonds and Giambi edited)) )would make a comment when you revert. PaulinSaudi 13:15, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)]]

Include those not found guilty according to their sport governing body?
Yes or no? I thought Bonds wasn't found guilty (but I'm not sure). If we include all athletes that most likely have doped but either were not officially announced or only bended the rules, this list could be much bigger, but it goes against the title :) Peoplesunionpro 21:28, Jun 7, 2005 (UTC)

Also, UTA PIPIG's case was immediately thrown out. There was a clear medical reason for her her positive test result. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eztidun (talk • contribs) 19:37, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Bernard Williams
Can anyone confirm that Bernard Williams used banned drugs? Punkmorten 11:54, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * It's impossible to tell what he used and what he hasn't used. Williams has tested positive for a metabolite of cannabis in June 2004 and has received a public warning for it from the US Anti-Doping Agency (USADA) . Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 23:44, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * OK, thanks. Perhaps you could add this information to his article? Punkmorten 16:47, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

Page name
I see the discussion above about the page name. I also think it should be moved, because of the use of the word "guilty". In most sports there is a strict liability rule about drug abuse, so any amount of performance-enhancing drugs results in a ban from competitions even if there is an innocent explanation for how it came to be there. The term "guilty" implies malign intent. I suggest a move to List of athletes who tested positive for banned drugs. David | Talk 00:28, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * The proposed name might be better than the current name, but I disagree with you on your interpretation of the word "guilty". I believe you have to view guilty in conjunction with the word in front of it, "found". This is not a list of people who were guilty of doing something, but of people who were found or held guilty by a professional organization, whether it's an official anti-doping agency or any organization regulating a particular sport. A small note: I would prefer a move to List of athletes who tested positive for banned substances, since not all banned substances are technically drugs. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 23:39, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I think guilty is totally inappropriate for the name of the article, since few (none?) of these people were "found guilty" of anything. Being found guilty requires breaking a law and having your day in court, and most people who are punished by a professional sports league are never charged with anything.  I think we should come up with a consensus for a new name and change it as soon as possible.  I'd be for Aecis's suggestion, List of athletes who tested positive for banned substances, although I'd be against anyone being included in that list just because the media made suggestions.  Actual suspension by a professional league would be enough in my mind. —Cleared as filed. 21:22, 4 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I too am queasy about the word "guilty." The name ought to be changed. I prefer "Drug cheats." Paul, in Saudi 02:37, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I have boldly moved this article to List of athletes who tested positive for banned substances. The old article title was bordering on, if not blantantly, libel, since most of these guys haven't been "found guilty" of anything. —Cleared as filed. 15:09, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Either the page should be moved again, or the last sentence ", or have admitted to their use." should be omitted.--Bagande 16:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

How exactly is listing under this title any less libelous when it contains names who have NEVER had a positive drugs test! (such as rio ferdinand or christine ohuruogu) and have been banned for missing tests or other related ofences. I've moved the page to List of sportspeople sanctioned for doping offences. --Jw2034 15:25, 28 July 2007 (BST)

The title should refer to 'drugs' rather than 'doping,' because it includes things like cocaine, marijuana, and meth that are pretty different than performance-enhancing drugs and aren't really implied by the word 'doping.' 69.7.37.69 (talk) 22:23, 18 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No, because the page also pertains to missed tests etc. Punkmorten (talk) 08:58, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Reformatting
I am currently in the process of reformatting the page. I didn't list it here prior to the reformatting because it is only a layout edit. I am not editing the content in any way, shape or form. With the new layout, I believe the list will look clearer and more professional. I have added two topics to the list: the banned substance that was found, and an external reference. I believe that mentioning the banned substance adds to the encyclopedic content of the page, while the external reference is meant to provide proof that the athlete in question did test positive for a banned substance. Aecis Mr. Mojo risin' 23:39, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Natallia Solohub - reference required
According to the Natallia Solohub article (name sometimes spelt Natallia Sologub) "She was banned from the sport between August 2001 and August 2003". However, the article lacks a ref, and I can't Google one. Can anyone point us to the official IAAF decision (usually a pdf file)? --Mais oui! 13:12, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
 * The article already has a source, namely her IAAF profile which indeed says she was banned in that period. Punkmorten 14:55, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Oh! I had looked at that, but missed that bit! Thanks. --Mais oui! 18:22, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

77 kilobytes, and counting...
This article is already very long, and it is just going to get longer. Would it be wise to consider splitting it, perhaps by sport? We already have separate lists for baseball. Perhaps if we spun off athletics (track and field) - which has the most - then we could keep this list manageable. Thoughts? -- Mais oui! 15:11, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * It seems sensible. It only shows that the athletics coverage is starting to reach an adequate level :) In the new list we could add their event (e.g. 100 m, discus etc). Punkmorten 15:28, 10 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Good idea. The first that come to mind would be List of cyclists who tested positive for banned substances and List of athletes who tested positive for banned substances. A  ecis Brievenbus 09:51, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Vincent Guérin
I have already mentioned this on the French sportspeople in doping cases talk page and it is a bit similar to the Bonds and Giambi case.

Guérin was suspended initially by the FFF but this punishment was overturned and the doping test declared void by the French legal Courts on the grounds that the tests were carried out incorrectly. See here.

Should he, and by extension Bonds and Giambi, still be included? At the very least I would think there should be a footnote to explain the dubiety of the initial test. Caledonian Place 13:15, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Perhaps a new list of sportspeople who were cleared of doping charges? If they are not present in any list, people are going to wonder where their entries went. I remember a few more at the moment who could go in such a list. Punkmorten 18:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Two additional columns?
I suggest adding two columns to this list: the year in which the positive test occurred, and the suspension/penalty/warning that ensued. Any thoughts? A ecis Brievenbus 09:54, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Those sound like good additions to me. That would make seven columns, so we're probably getting a little wide.  Adding them might cause issues with screens that aren't all that wide--possibly merge the reference column into the name column (the "reference" title takes up so much more space than the "[1]" link which could be put right next to the athletes' names)? -- Jonel | Speak 16:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

 * "reference" can be shortened to "ref", with a piped link to WP:CITE or something. Two new columns could work if we are able to fill them based on sources. Punkmorten 16:28, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Current name is poor
The list scope is sportspeople "who tested positive for banned substances, or have been found to have taken illegal performance-enhancing drugs by a court of law, or have been suspended by a sporting body for failure to submit to mandatory drug testing, or have admitted to their use". Self-admitted doping use should therefore be included in the list (re: ), until the list scope is changed by consensus here on the talk page. BUT if anything the name should be changed. Why not "List of doping cases in sport", in compliance with the category of the same name? Punkmorten 18:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree, a positive test is NOT the same as being banned for missing mandatory tests (such as rio ferdinand or christine ohuruogu), where no evidence of drugs taking exists - in fact, it might be potentially libelous to even list them under this title! -Jw2034 15:16, 28 July 2007 (BST)

For this reason i've changed the name, all the names on the list will still be valid under the new title - except horses, which needs a new page given this is for sportspeople :). -Jw2034 15:16, 28 July 2007 (BST)

 * On first sight it seems like an ok solution. Punkmorten 15:26, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I still like "Drug Cheats' Paul, in Saudi 09:01, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

List of sportspeople cleared of doping charges
The List of sportspeople cleared of doping charges now exists. Punkmorten 11:08, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Vick
Shouldn't Michael Vick be in there for the 	Marijuana case? --HPJoker (talk) 16:18, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Yes he should, as should josh howard and rasheed wallace and damon stoudamire. This list is a joke so far... seriously no justin gatlin or ben johnson? No marion jones? No tim montgomerry? No Chris Mullen? No ricco rodriguez? No Arnold Schwarzanneger? No Dwain Chambers? No Rashid Ramzi? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.206.180.211 (talk) 22:49, 15 June 2010 (UTC)
 * See . Geschichte (talk) 11:33, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Josep Guardiola
Josep Guardiola was cleared so I've erased from the list. References:
 * Former Barcelona midfielder Josep Guardiola cleared of doping charges on appeal
 * Josep Guardiola is cleared of doping charges in a Brescia court
 * Absolen Guardiola de l'acusació de dopatge
 * Pep Guardiola absolt de les acusacions de dopatge --83.58.120.3 (talk) 19:41, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

 * OK, there's a List of sportspeople cleared of doping charges for that. Punkmorten (talk) 21:52, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Length
This list is becoming massive - there are a couple of options. 1) Split the article by sport (e.g. List of doping cases in athletics, List of doping cases in soccer, etc) 2) Split the article by continents (e.g. List of doping cases in South American sport, List of doping cases in European sport)  3) Split the article alphabetically (e.g. List of doping cases in sport A-F, List of doping cases in sport G-M).  4) Remove all those entires where the person has no article. I'm in favour of 4 (remove all the redlinks and add them back in as and when they have articles), but what does everyone else think? Neıl ☎  17:10, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Removing redlinks is a horrible solution. Wikipedia has an infinite amount of space, is a work in progress, and it has already been taken care that only sportspeople that otherwise deserve articles are listed here. Of course, there are loads of known doping cases which are not listed here, but they are omitted as being not notable. Punkmorten (talk) 19:57, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Okay - then which of the other suggestions makes most sense? Neıl ☎  11:50, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
 * If we must split the list - and I'm not convinced we need to - but if we must, then it should be by sport (Athletics, Cycling, Swimming, etc) as it is quite common that the same reference will cover multiple athletes in the same discipline. Since updating references (dead links) seem to be a problem, we should split the list in a way that helps editors keep references up to date. --Xagent86 (Talk | contribs) 01:22, 9 July 2008 (UTC)
 * perhaps keep the current list, but create other articles as you suggest e.g. doping in athletics/soccer/etc, which can then be linked at the top of the article we have now. i'd be willing to help with this if need be! Pullshapes (talk) 17:54, 14 July 2008 (UTC)

List is broken by alphabetical markers
What good is this list being broken by alphabetical markers when one can re-arrange the list by sport (but not find what they are looking for?). If I want to find everyone within a certain sport who have confirmed doping cases, I still have to look in each letter of the alphabet.

How can we fix this? I say combine all the tables instead of tables for A, B, C, D, E... etc -- Guroadrunner (talk) 10:07, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I agree that the tables should be combined nielsle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.143.235.152 (talk) 19:08, 26 September 2010 (UTC)

 * This can be done by adding "sortname" to all names. Like this: Fritz Aarnes instead of Fritz Aarnes . Then you can sort by name if you want, or any other parameter. Geschichte (talk) 20:04, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Gevorg Davtyan
It looks to me like at the 2003 World Weightlifting Championships in Vancouver Gevorg Davtyan was tested positive for banned substances, and lost the silver medal.

However, I can't find a reference that says whether he was suspended for two years, and he isn't named in the list of suspended competitors at iwf.net. Anyone got some better reference? Nikai (talk) 10:44, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

year
This chart needs another column for the year(s) of the incident(s). Kingturtle (talk) 19:42, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

I strongly second this motion! Currently this page is little more than a reference for people who know almost everyone on the list. If the list were reaganged in order of when they happened, then it may yield some more information. If one is looking for a name, one could simply hit ctrl.-F or something of the like to find their desired player. Listing it in the format it is currently in provides little information to anyone who desires to really learn anything.

Of course, reformatting this list would be an ENORMOUS task for any one or many people to undertake... but consider it something that should be done! ^^ —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.233.61.48 (talk) 23:54, 17 February 2009 (UTC)

Uta Pippig
I have erased Uta Pippig from this article, since shortly after being accused of taking testosterone, she was found NOT to have taken the hormone. Germany threw her case out immediately after reviewing her medical records. It's not fair to put innocent people's names on such a shameful list. Uta Pippig is a champion who has dedicated her life to athletics. She won her races fair and square, and she deserves to be treated as such. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eztidun (talk • contribs) 23:12, 23 August 2008 (UTC) --Eztidun (talk) 23:42, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

From the Wiki article on Uta Pippig:

"In 1998, an out-of-competition drug test found Pippig had an elevated ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone, and the German Athletics Federation attempted to ban her for two years. Pippig contested the finding on the grounds that her testosterone levels were normal, and that the elevated ratio was due to a low level of epitestosterone from a long battle with chronic bowel disease and other factors. This claim was supported by a variety of independent medical experts[1], and a German arbitration court ultimately dismissed the case."

Their References:

1. ^ In analyses, it was determined by independent specialists Dr. Robert Barbieri, the Chief of Obstetrics and Gynecology at the Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston, who is also an expert in hormones and the use of steroids, and Dr. Horst Lüppert, the Head of Obstetrics and Gynecology at The Free University in Berlin, that Uta Pippig’s ratio imbalance was not due to high levels of testosterone, but rather low levels of epitestosterone.[citation needed] Separate expert opinions from both Dr. Barbieri and Dr. Lübbert, independently concluded that the use of oral contraceptives and active bowel disease both raise the T:E ratio.[citation needed] According to Dr. Barbieri, “The T:E ratio is not valid for women on oral contraceptives with active bowel disease.” According to Dr. Barbieri, “In April 1998, at or around the time that a urine specimen was taken for androgen matabolite analysis, Ms. Pippig was on oral contraceptive pills and had active bowel disease.” a) Letter from Dr. Horst Lübbert to German Track and Field Association, October 1, 1998. b) Letter from Dr. Robert Barbieri to Messieurs David Merz and Jens Peter Ketels, January 22, 1999

2. ^ In an interview published in the August 9, 2000 issue of Der Tagespiegel, Judge Dr. Eike Ullmann, who chaired the panel of judges that decided on the Uta Pippig vs. DLV case in the arbitration proceedings of the German Sports Federation (DSB), concluded, “De facto there was a ban (on Uta Pippig competing), but its existence has not been legally justified.”  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eztidun (talk • contribs) 23:16, 23 August 2008 (UTC)  --Eztidun (talk) 23:42, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

 * I removed Uta Pippig from this list and added her to the List of sportspeople cleared of doping charges page. Pippig's case is somewhat complicated, since she was not explicitly "cleared" of her test result findings, but the settlement reached with the German track federation found that her ban was not legally justified and her ban was removed from federation records. Newsresearchmania (talk) 17:41, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Article name
I think it could be better.  Enigma msg  07:10, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

Disclaimer?
Is the banner at the top meant as a disclaimer? Such usages are banned for wikipedia as the general disclaimer is already listed. I think that the hidden comment and the way all the people are listed is enough for the reader to realise that they should add a citation. Only two sportsmen (out of the thousand or so listed) had citations missing and I've added them now. Should we remove this banner in favour of vigilance in additions? Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) 15:47, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I think so. Punkmorten (talk) 20:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Split time?
It was suggested that this list be split by sport over two years ago but it was deemed unnecessary. However, this page has has now doubled in size from 101K in February 2008, to 207K in April 2010. THis is creating problems both for editing and reading in terms of the time taken to load the page.

I suggest that we start splitting of by the largest sports represented in the list first, leaving less doping prevalent sports on the main list. Would it be OK if I created List of doping cases in athletics as a split off from this main topic? This will go some way to making this page much quicker to load as athletics doping appears to make up a good 35% of entries at the least! Perhaps cycling, weightlifting, baseball and swimming may warrant their own lists too at some point. For less represented sports (e.g. football, cricket, gymnastics) there seems little reason why they can't remain on the main list here for the time being as they aren't hard to maintain. What do people think? Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) Join WikiProject Athletics!  17:21, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

 * I have thought earlier about splitting by letter: e.g. A-H, I-O. If splitting by sport, I think the athletics one could become very large, itself in need of a split at some time. Geschichte (talk) 21:14, 27 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that an athletics one might need to be split by letter at a later point. However, I think it best to divide a complete list by sport first – maybe I'm wrong but I guess many people would want to see the cases from a specific sport rather than "which athletes with a surname began with the letter B have tested positive?". Is it OK if I go ahead with an athletics split? Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) Join WikiProject Athletics!  14:33, 29 April 2010 (UTC)
 * I'm going to split this now. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) Join WikiProject Athletics!  13:02, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The split is done and all athletics cases are now listed at List of doping cases in athletics. Perhaps it would be a good idea to move all the cycling ones to List of doping cases in cycling also. This page is now half the size it was (not a great advertisement for athletics there) so loading and editing should not be much of a problem when the page is around the 100K mark. Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) Join WikiProject Athletics!  15:47, 31 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I came by to complain about the split. But I admit I do not understand the technicalities of it. No place on the Net (a series of tubes) is there a list of athletes who were caught using drugs. This is a valuable resource. We lose no content by cutting it up, but we lose context. But of course I defer to the other editors. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 13:51, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
 * It is merely the scope of the task that has demanded the split. Something like "list of settlements with populations over 50,000" may also be useful, but it would be far too difficult to navigate and maintain on one stand-alone list (let alone load or edit on a regular basis). Probably hundreds of athletes are sanctioned for doping every month, this list just accounts for the ones editors can be bothered to mention. An unabridged, or comprehensive list can't feasibly be done – in terms of page size, this list already grew two-fold in two years. Such file sizes can render articles inaccessible to those with less powerful computers or slower internet (see Article size). It took around twenty seconds to load for me before the split, and I'm hardly near the lower end of either of these specifications. Hence the athletics split (following the line of others such as List of Major League Baseball players suspended for steroids and List of doping cases in cycling). Sillyfolkboy (talk) (edits) Join WikiProject Athletics!  19:22, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Per, the split is not made known to a sufficient degree. As this list currently stands. Geschichte (talk) 11:34, 17 June 2010 (UTC)

Michael Rasmussen
Shouldn't the Danish cyclist Michael Rasmussen be included in this list for failing to tell about his whereabouts? He did get a ban of two years, but I haven't got at source for it at this moment. Tøndemageren (talk) 12:20, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * No source = no add. I'd support a source-accompanied addition since failing to reveal whereabouts is a doping-related offense. Geschichte (talk) 12:56, 22 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Is this good enough as a source?? http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/other_sports/cycling/7484492.stm Tøndemageren (talk) 14:27, 30 July 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tøndemageren (talk • contribs)

Josep Guardiola
Why isn't Josep Guardiola in the list? The present F.C.Barcelona's coach ended up his sportive career as a footballer after being excluded from competition for a 2-year period. 81.60.184.141 (talk) 17:58, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Shouldn't this list be limited to just performance-enhancing drug users?
That's what "doping" actually means, after all. Use of prohibited recreational drugs is a separate issue from doping, so this list shouldn't conflate the two. 24.214.230.66 (talk) 07:32, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

 * This is a long-running problem. The title of this article has changed many times. The list includes all sorts of drugs related to sport, not just performance drugs. There is nothing wrong with that except the title implies otherwise. All in all, not to worry. The title will almost certainly change again. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 08:17, 5 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I agree with Paul. For instance, injecting your own blood is a form of doping, but it is not a drug. Failing to submit to testing is a "doping case", but not a performance enhancing drug. "Doping cases" encapsulates all the forms of suspensions that can occur when sportspeople break WADA's doping code. I actually think that Use of performance-enhancing drugs in sport should be moved to doping in sports, but a lot of hard work and argument will be needed to do that. SFB 16:30, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * My stance is that we should strive for a short and handy name on this list, but at the same time keep the current scope. Geschichte (talk) 21:20, 15 December 2011 (UTC)

Claudio Caniggia
soccer player claudio caniggia is missoing from the list go to his wiki page for references QueenAlexandria utc 21:34 4th Sept 2012 —Preceding undated comment added 21:35, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

What about Dwain Chambers, the British sprinter? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.109.188.34 (talk) 15:23, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Per Pedersen
Removing Per Pedersen from the list. He used Cortisone, but as far as I can tell it was allowed when he used it. It has been banned later on. Source: http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/pedersen-lilholt-confess-to-cortisone-use -- Lejman (talk) 16:01, 31 January 2013 (UTC)

List of doping cases in sports?
Shouldn't the article title read "List of doping cases in sports" considering that it lists doping cases in numerous sports instead of just one sport? Carlatenorio (talk) 12:40, 12 April 2013 (UTC)

Renaming of article title?
Does anyone object to renaming the article title to "List of doping cases in sports"? Carlatenorio (talk) 15:01, 23 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Yes, if only because we have renamed this thing about a million times and no title seems to make everyone happy. Look at the page or talk history. "Sport" is British English for what Americans call "sports." IN British English it is a mass noun; in America it is a count noun. "Sport" is acceptable. Relax. Paul, in Saudi (talk) 03:41, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

Hiding/showing sidebar?
Can somebody edit the article so that the sidebar titled "Part of a series on Doping in Sport" can be hidden or shown just like the table of contents can be hidden or shown? Nuzaliwaj (talk) 09:25, 28 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Nevermind my post because it seems that was a temporary issue. Nuzaliwaj (talk) 21:53, 28 June 2013 (UTC)

Split the article?
The article has become so large in size that viewers with slow internet connections may experience difficulties when attempting to access it.

Should it be split somehow? Nuzaliwaj (talk) 20:41, 5 July 2013 (UTC)

AOD9604
AOD9604 is not currently listed in section 2 of the WADA code which pertains to performance enhancing drugs. The lead to article states it is a list of "those who have been found, or have admitted to, having taken illegal performance-enhancing drugs, prohibited recreational drugs or have been suspended by a sporting body for failure to submit to mandatory drug testing". As AOD9604 does not currently fall under the performance enhancing or recreational drug banner, should Jobe Watson be included here? AOD9604 is banned under section 0, which is for substances not currently approved for therapeutic use.

I will not modify this article as I am an Essendon supporter and massive fan of Jobe Watson, so I will not pretend to be unbiased in this matter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.120.16.134 (talk) 04:15, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

Proposed: Split list by the existing "sections"
Since this article is now 300kb, which is six times the suggested size for splitting, we need to split this article. The existing scections seem to make sense to me. Pending significant objection I indend to begin splitting out the sections on 2013-11-12. Hasteur (talk) 15:17, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
 * I see the sense in splitting them, and commend you for your work. However (bit late now) I would have suggested that we don't need one article for each letter of the alphabet. e.g. X,Y and Z could be grouped together, as could I-J, P-Q ( or Q-R) Martin 4 5 1  19:31, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The problem is that some of the letters could be combined, but then the combined ones would have the same level of impact. The nice thing about a collaberative project like this is we could do some merges/moves/redirects to unify the smaller letters with a neighbor.  I just tried to pick a equitable solution that would allow all to have a reasonable showing in the sublists. I intend to keep splitting the sections out via the same procedure, and then I can get to why I originally came to this page (to remove links to a archiving service that wikipedia has said no to). Hasteur (talk) 20:05, 19 November 2013 (UTC)
 * No problems. Martin 4 5 1  20:07, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

The split is finished Hasteur (talk) 16:21, 25 November 2013 (UTC)

Proposed: Add doping cases in Tour De France 1998 discovered in 2013
Shouldn't all the cycles who used doping in 1998 Tour De France identified in 2013 also beeing add to the list? Below the link with the complete list http://road.cc/content/news/89222-french-senate-names-1998-tour-de-france-dopers-ogrady-and-durand-confess — Preceding unsigned comment added by Andreatxt (talk • contribs) 23:08, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Referenced by journal article
I'm not sure if there's a talk page template for this sort of thing, analogous to, but this academic paper references this wiki article.  Seppi  333  (Insert 2¢) 16:40, 25 May 2016 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:List of doping cases in sport


text:
User talk:Sam Spade/Spleeman

Enforcing american spelling
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Anti-globalization_movement&diff=4236114&oldid=4236091

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Anti-globalization_movement&diff=4253102&oldid=4236114

 * This occurred quite a while ago when I was still a very new user and was unaware of the policy on American vs. British spelling. Actually, to be honest, I'm still not entirely sure what the policy is on this matter. I might have read it once before, but I seem to have forgotten in any case. I suppose I'll have to go review the policy again. Anyway, you'll notice I haven't done this in a long time. -- Spleeman 08:01, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

a long time? Like since June? Nearly everything you've compiled about me is from my first few months here, long before you were even on the wiki... unless... ;) Sam [Spade] 08:04, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I didn't say "a long time" ago, on purpose. I said "quite a while". I've only been here about 2 months, so 2 months is indeed a while :) The stuff I compiled on you spans the entire length of your "career" on wikipedia, right up till today. I'll add the insinuation that I'm really a reincarnated old user (I assume that's what you meant by "unless...") to the "thinks other users are out to get him" section. Cheers. -- Spleeman 08:15, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Rudeness, foul language and/or attempt to enforce POV
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk%3AAnarchism&diff=4238513&oldid=4237180

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Anarchism&diff=4247085&oldid=4246203

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:Anarchism&diff=4248012&oldid=4247319

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk%3AAnarchism&diff=4249510&oldid=4248197

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk%3AAnarchism&diff=4251393&oldid=4251149

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk%3AAnarchism&diff=4254411&oldid=4252390

 * Again, these occurred when I was a very new user, and was unfamiliar with the wiki and its policies. Some of the things I said were a bit out-of-line, yes, but some of the things I said were true. Anyway, the anarchism page has calmed down a lot recently, as have I. Most of teh stuff you've got listed here isn't that damning. If I were you, I'd focus on the "kiss my anarcho-commie a** motherf****r" incident. -- Spleeman 08:09, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm not going to focus on any of this foolishness, my point was to enlighten you as to the hypocrisy of digging into my past, and of the futility of doing things here on the wiki that interfere w reading, writing and editing an encyclopedia (which is what were supposed to be doing ;) Sam [Spade] 08:16, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Oops. Looks like my last edit got overridden. I was just gonna say you should move this stuff over to your page since my talk page isn't the place to compile data on me. Thanks. -- Spleeman 08:21, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Sam Spade/Spleeman


text:
Ginny Wright

Ginny Wright was an American country music singer. She was born in Twin City, Georgia during the 1930s, first sang in glee clubs, and studied opera. She began performing country music in the early 1950s. Her first single was on the Triple A label, following her discovery by deejay Jack Gale.

Wright next signed with the new Fabor label on the West Coast, recording a duet with Jim Reeves, "I Love You" (Fabor 101), which spent 22 weeks on Billboard's country charts in early 1954, peaking at No. 3. One year later she returned to the hit parade with another duet, "Are You Mine?" (Fabor 117), this time with Tom Tall, which did even better. Over a 26-week run on Billboard's country charts, it peaked at No. 2. It was her second top 10 duet and her final chart appearance.

After taking a break from her career in the mid-1950s to raise a family, Wright entered country music in the 1960s, cutting a few singles for the Chart label. Wright recorded more duets, including additional ones with Tom Tall, who followed her to the Chart label.

Her sound began to change in the 1960s, acquiring more of a Nashville flavor. A series of one-off label recordings followed, including a couple for Jack Gale's Gallery 11 label, one for Travel and a couple for Cayce. Wright also cut an album for Playback Records featuring gospel standards with organ accompaniment.

At this time Wright's popularity began to rise in the German market. Her first German success was the album Ginny Wright's Songs & Duets. This was followed by another album on the Bear Family label titled Whirlwind; her duets with Tom Tall were issued on a separate LP under his name. These albums are out of print and the original singles are very rare.

Wright was inducted into the Louisiana Hayride Hall Of Fame in 2003; and a year later, Bear Family released a CD containing most of Wright and Tom Tall's Fabor recordings.

Ginny died on September 5, 2021. Her funeral was held on September 9 in Twin City, GA. She was laid to rest in Antioch Primitive Baptist Church Cemetery.

title: Ginny Wright


text:
Talk:Wheelbase

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Would somebody with better picture editing skills than I (probably the case) upload a better picture to illustrate the equations?

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What's the name for the distance between the left and right wheels; the equivalent of track gauge for railways? Is it as important as wheelbase? Should it be discussed here, or in an article of its own? -- Karada 11:43, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

TRACK
It seems the term "Wheelbase" is unfortunately widely misinterpreted to refer to the width, or lateral, (side to side), location of the tire/wheel assemblies.

"Track" is the correct term for this. The word Track has some obvious etymology and includes a salty joke about the ancient origins of the measured width of our modern day vehicles. (It involves horses posteriors.)

"Track" more specifically refers to the lateral distance between the centers of each tire as they contact the road, referred to as the tire "contact patch".

The front (steered wheels) of an automobile usually "steer" about a center that is more or less directly aligned with the center of the contact patch of the tire. However this is usually offset slightly, to improve safety and dynamics of the steered "handling" of the vehicle.

(I would like to provide original illustration: see automobile_TRACK.jpg, created by me...see details at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Automobile_TRACK.jpg)

See Also: Offset, Ackerman, Roll Center, Anti-Roll Bar, Alignment, Friction Circle, Steering Axis Inclination, Caster, Camber, Pivot Radius, Cornering Dynamics, G-forces, Center-of-Gravity, Yaw, Pitch, Roll, Tire, Suspension Systems, Weight Distribution, Thrust Angle

...and to further answer Karada's question, Yes, it is every bit as important as Wheelbase, and is it's own unique and complex topic and therefore deserves an article of its own, albeit closely linked/integrated with "Wheelbase". --Truthdowser 04:38, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

This article needs to cover railway locomotives too
Wheelbase applies to locomotives too. I'm not going to NPOV it, but maybe the lead needs explaining. (otherwise it's good) Dunc_Harris|☺ 21:51, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC) Hilarious that someone wrote steam locos are measured from where the wheel meets the track instead of from the center of the wheel! Having been a steam locomotive fireman for twenty years, I can GUARANTEE that the wheel contacts the rail DEAD CENTER of the axle. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.6.59.90 (talk) 20:12, 14 December 2022 (UTC)

Measurement
Why is wheelbase measured in inches? Couldn't they measure it in something simpler like feet? Even worse, they also use millimeters. Couldn't they at least use centimeters?

Millimetres is the standard international unit of length for automobiles, It's small enough that fractions aren't needed. It's always best to use smaller units.(94.0.120.36 (talk) 08:11, 8 May 2010 (UTC))

Confusion of phsics about bicycles
According to the short section on bicycle wheelbases, many commerical bikes have too SHORT a wheelbase to perform stoppies and wheelies. If the wheelbase was short, performing such tricks should be easier. Shouldn't this say "too long"? Short bikes can flip easier compared to longer bikes. It would be easier to do a wheelie or stoppie however it will be harder to control it once you're on one tire as the slightest movement can throw you over board. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.176.8.16 (talk) 01:01, 22 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Hmmm. The exact text is "The wheelbase on many commercially available bicycles and motorcycles is so short, relative to the height of their centers of mass, that they are able to perform stoppies and wheelies." That says to me that they can perform stoppies and wheelies because the wheelbase is short enough. Is there another interpretation? -AndrewDressel 13:28, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

Wheelbase illustration

I made this illustration very quickly, so no prob on copyright. Can someone upload it to the Wheelbase page?

Ashvindx 22:26, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

down-thrust on the tow-hook
Article says: down-thrust on the tow-hook is about 100 pounds force (400 N). Many many sources on towing recommend tongue-weight (as it is called in industry) to be beween 9% and 15% of the weight of the trailer - so it makes really lightweight trailer to have 100 pounds of hitch-weight. http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/towing/towing-capacity/information/tongue-weight.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.252.28.135 (talk) 02:26, 14 January 2010 (UTC)

oversteer and understeer are reversed+tow hook?
"Because of the effect the wheelbase has on the weight distribution of the vehicle, wheelbase dimensions are crucial to the balance and steering of the automobile. For example, a car with a much greater weight load on the rear tends to understeer due to the lack of the load (force) on the front tires and therefore the grip (friction) from them. This is why it is crucial, when towing a single-axle caravan, to distribute the caravan's weight so that down-thrust on the tow-hook is about 100 pounds force (400 N). Likewise, a car may oversteer or even "spin out" if there is too much force on the front tires and not enough on the rear tires." this isnt phrased well. a car that is heavier wont corner better. it reads as though its saying that having more weight can be a benifit in most road conditions. the only time when weight is usefull is if theres snow on the ground/dirt or anything besides pavement because if its not heavy enough it will ride on top of the snow/dirt instead of making contact with the ground. generally speaking in real life cars that have more weight in the rear are going to oversteer, not understeer. i dont see what having down thrust on the tow hook would help anything, or how its even relevant. the relevance needs to be explained better, what would happen if there wasnt enough weight on the tow hook? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.15.165.150 (talk) 08:08, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wheelbase


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UC Davis School of Medicine

The University of California Davis School of Medicine is the medical school of the University of California, Davis. While the parent institution is located in Davis, California, the medical school is in Sacramento, California.

History
Founded in 1966, the UC Davis School of Medicine graduated its first class of physicians in 1972. The school maintains research facilities on the Davis campus while the majority of the school's teaching and clinical space is located in Sacramento, 17 miles to the east of the Davis campus. With the December 2006 opening of its new Education Building, the school transitioned all medical school classes to the Sacramento campus. Classes are also held in the UC Davis Center for Health and Technology, which connects to the Education Building. Throughout their four years of medical school, students also take part in health care simulations at the UC Davis Health Center for Simulation and Education Enhancement, which is on the third floor of the UC Davis Center for Health and Technology building. Research activities continue in the same capacity at both the Davis and Sacramento campuses.

The school gained national attention in the late 1970s when an applicant challenged the school's affirmative action admissions policy. In a complex and split decision, the Supreme Court of the United States ruled in Regents of the University of California v. Bakke, 438 U.S. 265 (1978), that the applicant had unconstitutionally been denied admission and Bakke was admitted. They also ruled that affirmative action was legal within some limits.

Admissions and ranking
Admissions is highly competitive. In 2011, the school received 4,792 applications, offered interviews to 460 applicants of which 100 matriculated. The acceptance rate for applicants to UC Davis School of Medicine is approximately 1.8%. For 2019, U.S. News & World Report ranks UC Davis School of Medicine #9 based on primary care methodology and #30 based on research methodology.

Hospitals
UC Davis Medical Center, located in Sacramento, is one of five teaching hospitals in the University of California system. It ranks among the top 50 hospitals in America, according to an annual survey published by U.S. News & World Report. Other hospitals affiliated with UC Davis school of medicine include:
 * UC Davis Children's Hospital
 * UC Davis Cancer Center
 * Shriners Hospitals for Children – Sacramento
 * Sacramento VA Medical Center
 * Kaiser Permanente Medical Centers in Sacramento, Roseville, and South Sacramento

Research
Faculty in the School of Medicine specializes in a wide range of basic and applied research, including those related to neuroscience, cancer biology, vascular biology, genetic diseases and functional genomics, health services, infectious diseases, nutrition, telemedicine, and vision science. The school receives approximately $90 million in NIH funding annually. About half of UC Davis medical students conduct research during their training.

Primary care network
The UC Davis Medical Center operates a network of clinics that provides outpatient medical services to members of the HMO that UC Davis operates. These clinics are staffed by UC Davis medical school faculty and also by staff physicians hired directly by the primary care network (PCN).

Student clinics
UC Davis School of Medicine has student-run clinics, which offers free primary care to the uninsured, low-income and other underserved population of Sacramento and surrounding areas. These clinics provide patients quality health care and allow UC Davis medical students to gain real world clinical experience during the early stages of their training.
 * Shifa Community Clinic
 * Clinica Tepati
 * Knights Landing Clinic
 * Imani Clinic at Oak Park
 * Joan Viteri Memorial Clinic
 * Paul Hom Asian Clinic
 * Bayanihan Clinic
 * Willow Clinic
 * VN CARES (Vietnamese Cancer Awareness Research and Education Society)
 * HMong Lifting Underserved Barriers (H.L.U.B.) Clinic

title: UC Davis School of Medicine


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Interstate 390

Interstate 390 (I-390) is a 76.06 mi north–south auxiliary Interstate Highway located entirely within New York in the United States. The southern terminus of the route is at the Southern Tier Expressway (I-86 and New York State Route 17, or NY 17) in the town of Avoca. Its northern terminus is at I-490 (Western Expressway) in Gates, just west of Rochester. North of I-490, the expressway continues as NY 390 to the Lake Ontario State Parkway in Greece. I-390 connects to its parent, I-90 (New York State Thruway), in Henrietta, a southern suburb of Rochester. The route is known as the Genesee Expressway from Avoca to I-590 in Brighton, where it becomes part of the Rochester Outer Loop.

In addition to serving Rochester, I-390 serves as an important connecting route between the Rochester metropolitan area and Corning and the rest of the Southern Tier of New York. The freeway also serves several smaller communities between Corning and Rochester, including the Livingston County villages of Dansville and Geneseo. I-390 effectively replaced US Route 15 (US 15) and parallels NY 15, US 15's de facto successor, north of Corning. From Lakeville north to Brighton, the two routes cross paths four times and are located no more than 1.5 mi apart along the entire stretch.

The first section of the Genesee Expressway opened in the late 1960s, extending from Wayland in the east to Dansville in the west. The entirety of the then-proposed highway was designated as New York State Route 401 (NY 401) in 1970 but redesignated as I-390 c. 1973. More sections of the freeway opened throughout the 1970s, and I-390 was extended northwestward to cover the southwestern quadrant of the Rochester Outer Loop in 1980 following the elimination of NY 47. I-390 was completed in the early 1980s.

Route description
In its southern sections, which account for most of the highway's mileage, I-390 is a lightly trafficked freeway of two lanes in either direction going through minimally populated rural areas. Closer to Rochester, it becomes wider to accommodate the increased traffic it handles in the city itself.

Steuben and Livingston counties
I-390 begins as westbound traffic on the concurrent routes of I-86 and NY 17 proceeds below the overpass carrying those two routes to the west, at an interchange just east of the village of Avoca in Steuben County. The expressway heads northwest through the narrow valley of the Cohocton River to Cohocton, where the river leaves the expressway and heads north toward the hamlet of Atlanta. I-390 climbs gradually as it continues past Cohocton, eventually turning due west as it descends to an interchange with NY 21 south of Wayland. This exit is also the southern terminus of NY 15, which eventually parallels the Interstate further north.

The road climbs again as it makes a gentle bend and widens as it crosses the Livingston County line just south of Dansville and north of Stony Brook State Park. Descending again, it returns to its northwestern heading. North of the village, it climbs to the west side of the wide valley of Canaseraga Creek, giving the roadway a view over the area known locally as the Flats. NY 36 begins to parallel the highway closely, with NY 63 on the far side of the Flats. Just south of the hamlet of Sonyea, NY 36 crosses at a diamond interchange. I-390 turns northeast briefly but resumes its northwest course soon afterward. At this point, the highway follows more level ground, with woods and swamps mostly replacing farmland in the surrounding landscape.

After passing rest areas on either side, I-390 reaches the NY 408 exit adjacent to the American Rock Salt mine at Hampton Corners. Here, most traffic bound for the Buffalo area exits to go west to Mount Morris, visible across the Flats from the freeway, where it follows NY 36 north. To the immediate east of the exit, NY 408 ends at NY 63, which carries traffic from the Interstate into Geneseo, the county seat. north of the exit, Canaseraga Creek drains into the Genesee River on the road's west side.

The expressway continues north through Livingston County to Geneseo, which I-390 skirts to the south and east. While there is no exit for Geneseo on the part of the freeway that encroaches the village, exit 8, an interchange with US 20 Alternate (US 20A) east of Geneseo, provides the connection. Also accessible from the junction is the hamlet of Lakeville, situated off to the east at the junction of US 20A and NY 15. I-390 continues on, encountering NY 15 north of Lakeville and southeast of Avon. From here north to Rochester, I-390 and NY 15 follow closely parallel alignments. Both highways meet US 20 and NY 5 east of Avon prior to crossing into Monroe County.

Monroe County
As I-390 heads north through the southern extents of the county, the surroundings become more residential and commercial in nature. The freeway meets NY 15 and NY 251 in Rush ahead of an interchange with both the New York State Thruway (I-90) and NY 253 in southern Henrietta. Past the thruway, the transition from the rural landscapes of the Southern Tier and Finger Lakes to residential and commercial areas is completed as I-390 continues into the suburbs of Rochester and the commercial center of Henrietta. Roughly 1.5 mi from NY 253, I-390 has an exit leading to Hylan Drive, a through street leading to The Marketplace Mall. Farther north, I-390 meets both NY 15A and NY 252 in equally commercialized areas before entering Brighton.

Shortly after entering Brighton, I-390 crosses over the Erie Canal and meets the southern terminus of I-590 at a large semi-directional T interchange located adjacent to the canal and South Clinton Avenue. The latter of the two passes through the eastern half of the junction, crossing over I-590 but passing under the ramps connecting I-590 south to I-390 south and I-390 north to I-590 north. Past the exit, I-390 turns to the west, joining the Rochester Outer Loop and crossing back over the canal ahead of an interchange with NY 15 and NY 15A. After passing under NY 15, the freeway begins to run along the southern edge of the Erie Canal, here delimiting the southern city limits of Rochester. The canal and I-390 run side by side for just over 1 mi to the Genesee River, where I-390 veers slightly to the west as it meets NY 383 at a partial cloverleaf interchange.

For the next mile (1 mi), I-390 follows a more northwesterly alignment along the northeastern edge of the Greater Rochester International Airport grounds. It meets Brooks Avenue (NY 204) at the northern edge of the grounds before leaving the airport area and curving more to the north, matching changes in the Erie Canal's alignment as both entities proceed around the southwestern edge of the city. Now in Gates, I-390 crosses over the Rochester and Southern Railroad just south of another partial cloverleaf interchange with NY 33A. The freeway continues on, passing under the CSX Transportation-owned Rochester Subdivision and NY 33 before connecting to I-490 at a complex interchange roughly 0.25 mi west of the canal and the Rochester city limits. I-390 ends here; however, the freeway continues northward toward Greece as NY 390.

History
Construction on a limited-access highway between Wayland and Dansville began c. 1966. The highway opened to traffic c. 1968 as a realignment of NY 245. On January 1, 1970, the expressway became part of NY 401, a designation that also extended south to the town of Avoca and north to the city of Rochester along the Genesee Expressway, a proposed freeway utilizing the US 15 corridor. NY 401 was added to the Interstate Highway System and redesignated I-390 c. 1973. As initially planned, I-390 would continue north into Downtown Rochester and end at I-490 while the entirety of the Rochester Outer Loop south of I-490 would become I-590.

Construction began c. 1974 on the portion of I-390 between NY 17 near the village of Avoca and NY 21 south of Wayland. It opened to traffic c. 1976. By 1977, work had begun on the leg between NY 251 in Rush and the New York State Thruway (I-90) in Henrietta. This section was completed by 1981, as were the Dansville–Groveland (NY 36), Avon–Rush, and thruway–Hylan Drive segments. The remainder of I-390 in Monroe County up to the modern I-390/I-590 interchange was built c. 1981, and the final gap in the expressway from NY 36 to US 20 in Livingston County opened c. 1982.

By the late 1970s, in the face of community opposition, the proposed extension of I-390 into Downtown Rochester was scrapped. Instead, the state of New York began to look into the possibility of changing the designations that were assigned to the outer loop. In one proposal submitted to the American Association of State Highway and Transportation Officials in the late 1970s, I-590 would be truncated to begin at the then-proposed junction with I-390 in Brighton. The rest of the loop south of I-490, meanwhile, would become part of an extended I-390, which would continue north past I-490 to the outer loop's northwestern end at the Lake Ontario State Parkway. NY 47, the then-current designation for much of the outer loop, would be eliminated.

Most of the plans went into effect when the NY 47 designation was eliminated on March 18, 1980. The southern half of the outer loop was signed as planned; however, I-390 and I-590 were modified to end at their junctions with I-490. While NY 47 was officially assigned to the entirety of the outer loop prior to its removal, only the portion from NY 383 north to I-490 was actually once part of NY 47.

On February 10, 2008, whiteout conditions caused a 36-car pileup near the Scottsville Road exit, which led to a 17-year-old girl's death. Firefighters had to climb over cars and cut off roofs to get to people. More than 20 people were taken to the hospital.

On July 17, 2011, a tour bus heading northbound from Washington DC to Niagara Falls crashed between the Avoca and Cohocton exits, killing two and injuring at least 35 others. Preliminary investigation listed a blown-out tire as a possible cause of the crash.

Future
As the successor to US 15 in Western New York, it has been suggested that I-390 be added to the routes of either I-99 or I-83 as recently as 2002, with I-99's northern completed segment currently sharing the US 15 routing up to Corning, 24 mi south of I-390's current southern terminus. However, no official moves have been forwarded to fulfill this.

title: Interstate 390


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Noble Sissle

Noble Lee Sissle (July 10, 1889 – December 17, 1975) was an American jazz composer, lyricist, bandleader, singer, and playwright, best known for the Broadway musical Shuffle Along (1921), and its hit song "I'm Just Wild About Harry".

Early life
Sissle was born in Indianapolis, Indiana, United States, around the time his father Rev. George A. Sissle was pastor of the city's Simpson M. E. Chapel. His mother, Martha Angeline (née Scott) Sissle, was a school teacher and juvenile probation officer.

As a youth, Sissle sang in church choirs and as a soloist with his high school's glee club in Cleveland, Ohio. Sissle attended De Pauw University in Greencastle, Indiana on scholarship and later transferred to Butler University in Indianapolis before turning to music full-time.

Career
In early 1916, Sissle joined one of the society orchestras organized by James Reese Europe in New York. He persuaded Europe to also hire his friend, pianist and composer Eubie Blake, and later in the year helped Europe organize a regimental band for the 15th Infantry Regiment (Colored) of the New York National Guard. This would later become the New York 369th Infantry "Hell Fighters" Regiment that served nobly in France in World War I, with Europe as a lieutenant and Sissle as his sergeant and lead vocalist. Unlike most military bands it played syncopated music and was credited with introducing jazz to France. Sissle left the army after the war as a second lieutenant with the 370th Infantry Regiment and joined Europe's civilian version of the 369th band.

Sissle began recording for the Pathé label in early 1917, and sang several vocals on Pathé discs recorded by Europe's 369th Infantry Band in early 1919, after it had become a civilian band.

Not long afterwards, on May 9, 1919, James Europe was murdered by a disgruntled band member in Boston, Massachusetts, leaving Sissle, with the help of his friend, Eubie Blake, to take temporary charge of Europe's band. Years earlier Sissle had struck up a partnership with Blake after they first met in Baltimore in 1915.

Shortly after World War I, Sissle joined forces with Blake to form a vaudeville music duo, "The Dixie Duo". After vaudeville, the pair began work on the jazz musical revue Shuffle Along, which incorporated many songs they had written, and had a book written by F. E. Miller and Aubrey Lyles. When it premiered in 1921, Shuffle Along became the first hit musical on Broadway written by and about African Americans. It was the first all-black show to reach the Broadway stage in over a decade and included a teenage Josephine Baker among the performers. The musical introduced songs such as "I'm Just Wild About Harry" and "Love Will Find a Way".

Sissle and his band appear in a 1931 British Pathétone Weekly filmed at Ciro's nightclub in London, performing Walter Donaldson's "Little White Lies" and "Happy Feet", written by Jack Yellen and Milton Ager. In 1932, Sissle appeared with Nina Mae McKinney, the Nicholas Brothers, and Eubie Blake in Pie, Pie Blackbird, a Vitaphone short released by Warner Bros. In February 1931, Sissle accompanied Adelaide Hall on piano at the prestigious Palace Theatre (Broadway) in New York during her 1931-32 world tour. In 1932, Noble Sissle and Band appeared in the Vitaphone film "That's the Spirit," also featuring Cora La Redd and Miller and Moreland. Sissle collaborated with other artists such as Lena Horne and Duke Ellington, and was friends with Ethel Waters, Cab Calloway, and Nat King Cole. In 1954, the New York radio station WMGM, which was then owned by Loew's Theatre Organization, signed Sissle as a disc jockey. His show featured the music of African-American recording artists. Sissle was a member of Alpha Phi Alpha fraternity.

Legacy
In 2018, Sissle was the subject of the award-winning documentary Noble Sissle's Syncopated Ragtime, directed by Daniel L. Bernardi and David de Rozas.

title: Noble Sissle


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User:PrometheusOne

Interests:

 * DNA repair
 * Evolution and aging
 * Stem cell biology
 * Neuroscience
 * Molecular Genetics
 * Linear Algebra
 * Evidence Based Medicine
 * Biostatistics

title: User:PrometheusOne


text:
Talk:Our Dumb Century

Too bad it's not for real. Reading the excerpts on The Onion web page, I thought it was for a while. I was very impressed, thinking this must have been one of the most radical and independent publications of all time. I was quite surprised it was not widely recognized as such. But then it started to look too good to be true and I came here to check...
 * Too bad what's not for real? The book? Because the book is sitting about three feet away from me right now, and if I'm operating on the assumption that the input of my senses constitutes reality, which is admittedly a big assumption, then I must come to the conclusion that the book is real. Either that or I'm hallucinating it, and have had false memories implanted of me reading it for some inexplicable reason. Or do you mean it's too bad that the events chronicled in the book aren't for real? Well, that would be... interesting, yes. 68.33.44.208 03:03, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I think he actually thought that The Onion was actually printed from 1900 through 2000, which in and of itself is _incredibly_ funny!!!!! Family Guy Guy 01:42, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

Headline formatting, etc.
So even though this talk page obviously isn't used much, I'm going to ask a question. The headlines in this article are written in all caps, which is obnoxious and incorrect, as far as I'm aware. Even though headlines are sometimes written in all caps in the newspaper itself, I think when they are reproduced they're supposed to be formatted standardly. So does anyone care is I change them to regular? --Natalie 00:09, 17 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you're right. Thanks. Go ahead. --Kizor 09:59, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * They are titles, though, so should probably have each word capitalized (but not all caps). --Storkk 09:29, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Which, of course, they are already. Don't mind me... --Storkk 09:31, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

Global Tetrahedron
I noticed some of the Tetrahedron "news articles" while reading the book, but never really put them together until I saw this article mention it specifically. Looking through the book, I see it as the Amalgamated Tetrahedron Co. in 1917 (page 19), National Tetrahedron in 1932 (page 43), Global Tetrahedron Multinational Inc. in 1998 (page 163), and Global Tetrahedron Conglomerate in 2000 (page 164). I know I must be missing some, I don't see any mention of it in the first decade, and don't see anything between 1932 and 1998, surely it's mentioned at least once and I'm not noticing? Can anyone direct me to the rest of pages that mention it? 99.148.149.73 (talk) 20:34, 15 March 2009 (UTC)

 * There's one in the 1950s regarding an advertisement on the powers of Tritium. Kalmbach (talk) 07:05, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Our Dumb Century