text:
Talk:Multiprotocol Label Switching

Agnosticism
...protocol agnostic... Does that mean MPLS doesn't know if protocols exist? What a ridiculous phrase. I would find useful to describle the differents transports protocols supported by MPLS (over IP, over GRE, over TRILL?...)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.0.69.201 (talk) 16:04, 23 March 2011 (UTC)

Is MPLS a Protocol?
Is MPLS a protocol? Should the category be changed to Network protocols? - Sridev 21:05, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, yes and no. MPLS is more of a packet format, along with some simple processing rules for forwarding packets in that format. Whether that makes it a protocol is kind of a theological question. The MPLS spec is mostly there to allow people to build compatible hardware. You also need (in most cases) a setup protocol - which you may or may not consider part of MPLS (there are several different alternatives) - before packets can flow. Noel 07:57, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I would call it an framework (defining the need) and an architecture (rules for writing protocols and expected behavior). Protocols flow between machines, so the expected internal behavior of a Label Switched Router (LSR) in forwarding packets [Note 1] and the expected behavior of a Label Edge Router in assigning packets to an MPLS path is not strictly a protocol

 * [Note 1] For all practical purposes, the generation of MPLS we are discussing here forwards packets. Generalized MPLS (GMPLS) has a framework and architecture for forwarding non-packet information, such as optical wavelengths (i.e., lambdas) in a Wavelength-division multiplexing system, time slots in time-division multiplexing such as SONET, and coordinates of the desired in and out ports on cross-connect switches (e.g., Digital cross connect system oe DACS). For all these non-packet forwarding modes, there still must be path setup protocols that interact with IP routing.Howard C. Berkowitz 15:56, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

Wire format + Semantics = Protocol. --Koshua 03:19, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"Label Lookup and Label Switching [...] can take place directly into fabric and not CPU."

It would be nice to provide some explanation of this statment... why is this so? And re: a few paragraphs earlier, *why* was it so challenging ("impossible") "to forward IP packets entirely in hardware"? These are offered as a motivation for why this subject is important, but it's not explained (or linked) well enough to be understood. DKEdwards 00:31, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Also, the link associated with the word "fabric" does not appear to work at the moment. Simeon Williamson 14:49, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

See Switched fabric and Forwarding Plane The basic idea is that the CPU just has to worry about setting up and tearing down paths, and doing fault circumvention for the paths, and the forwarding itself can be done with more purpose-built hardware Howard C. Berkowitz 15:56, 22 September 2007 (UTC)

MPLS is now also used in Ethernet Switching

If the QOS experiment is successful will this see the end of telephone call charges? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.102.29.99 (talk) 13:46, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

 * A protocol is defined as an interactive algorithm, enabling two or more parties to communicate using common syntax and semantics. MPLS is a protocol by definition. It does not matter whether it's just implemented via an adaptation layer or not. Nageh (talk) 13:15, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

Historical notes
Historical note that I thought was a little too detailed to go into the article - Tag Switching was originally Cisco's response to Ipsilon's high-speed switching product. (This was back from when everyone "knew" that switches could run faster than routers, and Ipsilon's clever marketing of their system [which used ATM switches] was proving vey effective.)

Another detail note: the issue with queueing delays and voice is that for voice to work, it needs to have low jitter (i.e. delay variance). You can get this in one of two ways: i) Have a big playback buffer, which allows you to smooth out the jitter, but which is (or was) expensive, and also increased the delay across the channel - and human conversational mechanisms tend not to work well with high-delay channels, or ii) Build a system with low delay and low jitter, for which you have to have short queueing delays, for which you have to have cells (a la ATM) on slow (and T1 was common when ATM was done) links if you intend to also carry large datagrams. Noel 07:57, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * There's also a Frame Relay link fragmentation mechanism. Although ATM and Frame Relay unquestionably "lost" and there is no real reason to kick a dead horse, I find some of the language in the article to be a bit more reminiscent of the FUD from back when the PR battle still raged.  Old FUD dies hard.  At some point a definitive post-mortem on ATM must have been written by a responsible entity (i.e. someone other than a packet switching vendor.)  It would be nice for historical content about legacy protocols to reflect reality there. (76.118.216.33 (talk) 02:56, 2 September 2010 (UTC))

Wiped all of that nonsense re: Schlumberger and Preston Poole. There was not a single citation and I couldn't find the guy in any RFCs. Looks like scene trolling. FlapjackShoestring (talk) 03:20, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

The contribution of the Schlumberger team lead by Poole and Chapellat is one of the most key events in early adoption of MPLS in the enterprise. Several years later this newtork was rebranded SPN (secure private network) and later SPINE, and I beleive sold to BT. This evolved into one of the delivery platforms for BT Radianz. In 2006, the BoD and VoD research and algorythims developed by Poole and the Schlumberger folks was adopted by most major telecommunications providers offering fee-based cable/entertainment services via MPLS or IP FrATM. —Preceding unsigned comment added by JCMccain2010 (talk • contribs) 21:54, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

GMPLS
In addition to MPLS, If I may suggest that a specific note be made on G-MPLS or Generalized MPLS. This is to basically to reflect the extension of MPLS into the time, wavelength, and fiber paradigm. The IETF common control and measurement plane (CCAMP) are working on standardizing the network plane across such multiple domains. http://www.ietf.org/html.charters/ccamp-charter.html

Suspicion of commercial unethical ad in external link section
I could not figure the interest of 3 differents links related to the same simulation product (NEST - QoSDesign) in the external link sections. At least I think negative impression should be balanced by providing links to Opnet and other broadly used simulation solutions.

Does the Experimental Bits section make sense?
I couldn't figure out that the Experimental Bits section made sense at all.

In the MPLS presentations I've seen, multiple tunnels between the same endpoints are used all the time - exactly because one can apply QoS differentiation to different tunnels. In fact, lots of the time, MPLS networks are sold as "this is the solution to the QoS problem". Delete section? --Alvestrand 08:23, 9 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Sad. It's documented here: . --Alvestrand 15:51, 28 January 2006 (UTC)

The article lists the experimental bits as "QoS" bits. While Cisco (and likley other vendors too) use it for this purpose the RFC does not state a specific use for them. Should the article state they are QoS bits, or simply that its a common use of them? Theres nothing to say a vendor might use them for something else besides QoS. RFC 3032. - ML

I would take issue with the 'MPLS Deployment' and 'Competitor to MPLS' sections that refer to MPLS working in an IPv4 or IP-only environment as it is also supported in IS-IS environments.

I agree, MPLS doesnt care about L3 protocols when making forwarding decisions, it puts a 32 bit label in between the L2 and L3 headers. --Skydivemayday 03:01, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Also, while ASICs have increased routing speed, they have done nothing to help with the fact that there are a variety of L2 transports deployed (ATM, Frame Relay, Ethernet, and SONET) which take a bit of work to interconnect every time you need to get from point 'A' to point 'B' and you would have to traverse these different types of L2 environments. MPLS adds an 'abstraction' layer which, when coupled with the VPN capability, reduces the amount of provisioning required.

If any comparisons to L2TPv3 are to be made, it should also be noted that MPLS supports both point-to-point and multipoint VPNs and L2TPv3 truly is IP-only and point-to-point. Joseph chapman 04:09, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

QoS topics missing
MPLS is everywhere described as being the ultimate solution to QoS problems by supporting Integrated Services (IntServ) and Differentiated Services (DiffServ) at the same time. It can also be used in traffic engineering for things like load balancing on ip-networks (because it's not using shortest path routing like ip always does) and defining backup paths in the case of network failure.

I think these things should be added because for a lot of internet service providers and other communication companies these are the main reasons for using mpls and, of course, as a replacement for atm. A lot of telco companies are now offering voice over ip and tv over ip so for them mpls is a way for ensuring QoS (which is of great importance for realtime services).

06:46, 01 October 2006 (UTC)

MPLS with non-IP protocols - clarification?
The first paragraph states that MPLS can be used to carry native ATM, SONET, and Ethernet frames. This contrasts with a late section which states MPLS cannot be compared to IP as a separate entity because it works in conjunction with IP and IP's IGP routing protocols. Could someone add a little more detail on the first point? In particular I find it puzzling that the MPLS header diagram does not show any indication of packet length, and so presumably depends on the IP packet length indicator. How does this work with non-IP content? Scottwh 13:33, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

MPLS vs Ethernet
There's a big debate about this (MPLS vs PBT Ethernet) at the moment. Can someone please add some OBJECTIVE, NON-RELIGIOUS, SCIENTIFIC info in about the main differences between the two formats? But are these protocols comparable with each other —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 61.222.209.68 (talk) 09:48, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

"Remember that a LER is not usually the one that pops the label. " is the first mention of popping. How can you remember anything? Perhaps a previous edit has removed the relevant pre-explanation?

IEEE 1355
IEEE 1355 is a completely unrelated technology that does something similar in hardware.

Sounds like a "deafening silence" aka Oxymoron. Can someone explain the sentence for non-native speakers? --80.136.108.252 (talk) 16:04, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

love to all —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.165.243.2 (talk) 13:44, 31 July 2008 (UTC)

Yeah, but what is it?
I've reread the lead paragraph, and I still can't tell what the subject of the article is. A type of networking methodology? A particular implementation? A proprietary, trademarked system? Is the name Multiprotocol Label Switching or Multi Protocol Label Switching? Is it a proper name, or should the title be multiprotocol label switching? (Capitalize proper names, but not  expanded acronyms.)  Thanks. —Michael Z. 2008-11-18 21:09 z

Commercial Advertisement in article?
Under MPLS VPN there is a link to http://www.singtel.com/ipvpn Is this a commercial advertisement? I don't know enough about the subject to determine. 69.242.19.2 (talk) 12:13, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Clearly spam. Removed. --EnOreg (talk) 09:32, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

History Dates
For historical context, please add some year references to the History section.

212.199.196.155 (talk) 08:00, 5 March 2009 (UTC)

Comparison of MPLS versus Frame Relay
I could be reading this wrong, but this paragraph doesn't read like a comparison to MPLS. 96.4.3.129 (talk) 13:51, 9 September 2009 (UTC)

Some of the material in the section on Comparison of MPLS versus Frame Relay makes reference to time frames without any clean anchor year. It looks like they may be old by now and someone should revisit them. They also lack sufficient references; the one reference given is a bad link.

The relevant text is pasted below: "In more recent years, Frame Relay has acquired a bad reputation in some markets because of excessive bandwidth overbooking by these telcos.

Telcos often sell Frame Relay to businesses looking for a cheaper alternative to dedicated lines; its use in different geographic areas depended greatly on governmental and telecommunication companies' policies.

Many customers are likely to migrate from Frame Relay to MPLS over IP or Ethernet within the next two years, which in many cases will reduce costs and improve manageability and performance of their wide area networks.[21]"

Techguy95 (talk) 00:45, 1 May 2014 (UTC)

No mention of Security concerns
From other sources I found that MPLS is not considered a secure protocol. I came to Wikipedia hoping to find details but there is no mention of security or encryption concerns in this article. I think this article would benefit from so expert attention in this area. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.42.243.194 (talk) 01:41, 26 August 2010 (UTC)
 * Source? Because MPLS itself is nothing but a switching and routing mechanism, the security of the data within the packets is immaterial; data security would be left to the underlying Level3 protocol. Markneill (talk) 22:10, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

One header, multiple labels?
The article says: 'MPLS works by prefixing packets with an MPLS header, containing one or more "labels"'. Is this correct? According to a sample pcap trace (http://wiki.wireshark.org/SampleCaptures?action=AttachFile&do=view&target=mpls-twolevel.cap) and to the page 618 of the book "Network Routing" (by Deepankar Medhi and Karthikeyan Ramasamy) there is a separate MPLS header for each label. I think the sentence should be: 'MPLS works by prefixing packets with one or more MPLS header." What do you think? Nejko (talk) 13:49, 2 October 2010 (UTC)

It's debatable. You only have one mpls header normally- you don't end up with multiple headers unless you start tunneling mpls inside mpls. 69.145.252.198 (talk) 09:13, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Benefits and Drawbacks
The first section contains the closing phrase "While the traffic management benefits of migrating to MPLS are quite valuable (better reliability, increased performance), there is a significant loss of visibility and access into the MPLS cloud for IT departments.[2]" This statement is misleading and the 'supporting' link is a blog with another link to the author's white paper which does not actually provide any justification or support for this claim. If this IT department has control of their network, mpls does not provide less visibility (and in some cases it provides more). The only way this claim can hold any truth is if we're referring to a 3rd party IT group attempting to view events on someone else's network. Even then, it's arguable as to whether there really is a visibility issue as the tools the linked resource mention are not designed to show the info he was expecting to see. (ping is an end-to-end test tool, and traceroute is only concerned with routing, it's already blind to the switchpath)

So I suggest either the complete removal of that line from the main section, or altering it to read "[...], there is a minor loss of visibility into the mpls cloud for 3rd party IT departments." at least until such point in time that the article provides some reasonable supporting evidence for the current statement. 69.145.252.198 (talk) 09:48, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

RFCs
I'm pretty sure the introduction should mention the IETF and the RFCs that define MPLS. RFC 3031 looks like a place to start. It would also be nice to get at least one date in the history section. RFC 3031 is date January 2001. —Darxus (talk) 17:10, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

 * RFC 3031 is mentioned in section "MPLS deployment" which probably is too late indeed. The lead section, on the other hand, is much too long the way it is IMHO. I wouldn't mind mentioning RFCs in the "History" section. More importantly, I advocate shortening the lead section. One way to go about this would be to move a large part of it to a new "Introduction" section. --EnOreg (talk) 22:06, 21 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I now created an "Introduction" section. --EnOreg (talk) 15:06, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Define "label"
It is not clear from the article what the difference is between a label and a header. Does it do a different function is is it just another name for "header"? Rsduhamel (talk) 18:57, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't know where the confusion comes from. The label can be viewed as a tag: every packet marked with the same value in the label field gets routed the same way in the MPLS network. The only valid comparison would be with an address: in comparison to the latter, the label identifies a virtual circuit and not an end-point, and upon evaluating the label an MPLS router immediately knows where to forward the packet to. Nageh (talk) 20:29, 16 September 2011 (UTC)
 * A header is just a container for information. The MPLS header contains one or more labels. The labels determine a packet's path through the network. Does that make it clear? --EnOreg (talk) 14:17, 17 September 2011 (UTC)

Ad hoc references
The following appeared at the end of the article. It was tagged for a year. I can't make sense of it so I have moved it here. --Kvng (talk) 15:34, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

 * IPv6 references:
 * IPv6 over MPLS, Cisco Systems 2001;
 * Juniper Networks IPv6 and Infranets White Paper;
 * Juniper Networks DoD's Research and Engineering Community White Paper.

Competitors to MPLS
This section originally started off "MPLS can exist in both an IPv4 environment (using IPv4 routing protocols) and an IPv6 environment (using IPv6 routing protocols)." This reads, to me, like an unusually wordy direct copy from a presentation. I've cleaned it up a little, but am preserving the original here, just in case there was some reason for this wording.--Roland (talk) 13:41, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

I think OpenFlow is also a competitor, since it can completely replace MPLS with OpenFlow. Other opinions? --danrl — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.193.212.12 (talk) 15:59, 13 March 2012 (UTC)

Contested deletion
This page should not be speedy deleted as an unambiguous copyright infringement, because... (your reason here) --202.54.134.178 (talk) 12:29, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Contested deletion
This article dates back to 2001, and the document it supposedly copies has a 2009 copyright notice. I suggest that the proposer takes a look at the article history, to see if the content on Wikipedia pre-dates the article on the other site.

See User talk:BigDwiki. --The Anome (talk) 12:58, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

Terminology merge
I've proposed a couple merges of MPLS terminology, Label edge router and Label switch router into this article. There is no benefit of having individual articles for terminology associated exclusively with this topic. -—Kvng 16:28, 4 January 2013 (UTC)

Needs diagram
Something like http://ipcisco.com/wp-content/uploads/mpls/MPLS_Header_color.JPG. ~KvnG 10:27, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Label indication
It's not clear to me from this article how the presence of the label is indicated in the various layer 2 protocols? For example, VLAN tags in ethernet frames are indicated by the value in the TPID field that looks like an ethertype. Anyone got and can add this info for MPLS?

Graham.Fountain | Talk 17:54, 12 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Okay, I found this information for myself: Ethertype values, 0x8847 and 0x8848. I'll see if I can add this to the article when I get a round tuit.

 * Graham.Fountain | Talk 11:30, 13 March 2014 (UTC)

IP/MPLS instead of MPLS
Large parts of this article are only specific for IP/MPLS, the MPLS version that is intended for core networks, and is based on dynamical MPLS routing.

The distinction between IP/MPLS and MPLS is lacking.

Another profile of MPLS is called MPLS-TP and is intended for transport networks. This relies on statically provisioned end-to-end paths (LSP and pseudowires) throughout the MPLS network.

Better would be to move large parts of this page to a new page concerning IP/MPLS, and have this MPLS-page to refer to it and to the existing MPLS-TP page.

déRahier talk+contrib 14:04, 9 February 2015 (UTC)

Is this comparison with ATM right?
''In particular, MPLS dispenses with the cell-switching and signaling-protocol baggage of ATM. MPLS recognizes that small ATM cells are not needed in the core of modern networks, since modern optical networks are so fast (as of 2008, at 40 Gbit/s and beyond) that even full-length 1500 byte packets do not incur significant real-time queuing delays (the need to reduce such delays — e.g., to support voice traffic — was the motivation for the cell nature of ATM).''

I thought the size of ATM voice packets was not to reduce the transport queuing delay, but to reduce the queuing delay as the voice packet is generated or used, which is caused by the voice sample rate not the transport rate. For example, the 64 kb/s sampling rate of the standard G.711 voice codec, with packets at 6ms, gives a packet size of 48 bytes, which fits the ATM payload size of 48 octets per cell. This has nothing to do with the transport rate, just the sampling rate and the (old) latency requirements of the PSTN, so mentioning the speed of modern optical networks here is a bit misleading. What is relevant is that the fraction of traffic which is non-PSTN/voice is increasing. I have no references for this. There are no references in the quoted paragraph either. If someone who is an expert and who knows the references sees my point, perhaps they could edit the quoted paragraph in the article, and put in references even if I am mistaken. JustGonnaFixIt (talk) 17:17, 26 October 2015 (UTC)

its ok
I like Bangaja7 (talk) 08:14, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Competitor Protocols
This line: "The major goal of MPLS development was the increase of routing speed. This goal is no longer relevant," appears dubious to me. The whole paragraph has had a cit request for nearly 3 years, and no one has provided any substantiation. It may be that something relevant is being said here, but the paragraph does not explain how a technology such as Application-specific integrated circuits obviates the MPLS goal of routing speed. Am I just missing the point here? Or can this go? -- Sirfurboy (talk) 14:49, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

Citations: added ✅. Symbol (talk) 17:36, 4 December 2019 (UTC)

GRE phone thanks for number
Thanks for number phone service 2600:1700:265A:A800:94A:8C39:FF9:607D (talk) 17:34, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Multiprotocol Label Switching


text:
Humphrey Searle

Humphrey Searle (26 August 1915 – 12 May 1982) was an English composer and writer on music. His music combines aspects of late Romanticism and modernist serialism, particularly reminiscent of his primary influences, Franz Liszt, Arnold Schoenberg and Anton Webern, who was briefly his teacher. As a writer on music, Searle published texts on numerous topics; he was an authority on the music of Franz Liszt, and created the initial cataloguing system for his works.

Biography
Searle was the son of Humphrey and Charlotte Searle and, through his mother, a grandson of Sir William Schlich. He was born in Oxford where he was a classics scholar before studying—somewhat hesitantly—with John Ireland at the Royal College of Music in London, after which he went to Vienna on a six-month scholarship to become a private pupil of Anton Webern, which became decisive in his composition career.

Searle was one of the foremost pioneers of serial music in the United Kingdom, and used his role as a producer at the BBC from 1946 to 1948 to promote it. He was General Secretary of the International Society for Contemporary Music from 1947 to 1949. He accepted this post with the encouragement of the new president, Edward Clark. For Clark, he composed the Quartet for Clarinet, Bassoon, Violin and Viola, Op. 12, a musical palindrome.

Searle wrote his Piano Sonata, Op. 21 for a recital at the Wigmore Hall on 22 October 1951, given by the Australian pianist Gordon Watson to celebrate the 140th anniversary of the birth of Franz Liszt. (Watson also performed the complete Transcendental Études on that occasion. ) The Sonata was loosely based on Liszt's Sonata in B minor and has been described as "probably, both the finest and most original piano work ever produced by a British composer".

Other works of note include a Poem for 22 Strings (1950), premiered at Darmstadt, a Gogol opera, The Diary of a Madman (1958, awarded the first prize at UNESCO's International Rostrum of Composers in 1960), and five symphonies (the first of which was commercially recorded by the London Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Sir Adrian Boult).

He also composed film scores, including music for The Baby and the Battleship (1956), Beyond Mombasa (1956), Action of the Tiger (1957), The Abominable Snowman (1957), Law and Disorder (1958), Left Right and Centre (1959), October Moth (1960) and The Haunting (1963), as well the 1965 Doctor Who serial The Myth Makers.

Searle also contributed humorous compositions to some of the Hoffnung Music Festivals, including a setting of Young Lochinvar and a parody of serialism, Punkt Kontrapunkt.

Searle taught throughout his life; his notable students included Hugh Davidson, Brian Elias, Michael Finnissy, Jonathan Elias, Nicola LeFanu, Alistair Hinton, Geoffrey King, and Graham Newcater and Wolfgang Rihm.

Searle wrote the monographs Twentieth Century Counterpoint and The Music of Franz Liszt. He also developed the most authoritative catalogue of Liszt's works, which are frequently identified using Searle's numbering system, abbreviated as "S.".

Searle married Fiona Nicholson in 1960. He died in London in 1982, aged 66.

List of works
Source

Operas

 * The Diary of a Madman (1958)
 * The Photo of the Colonel (1963–64)
 * Hamlet (1964–68)

Ballets

 * Noctambules (1956)
 * The Great Peacock (1957–58)
 * Dualities (1963)

Orchestral

 * Variations on an Elizabethan Theme, jointly composed with Lennox Berkeley, Benjamin Britten, Arthur Oldham, Michael Tippett and William Walton (1953)
 * Symphony No. 1 (1953)
 * Symphony No. 2 (1956–58)
 * Symphony No. 3 (1959–60)
 * Symphony No. 4 (1961–62)
 * Symphony No. 5 (1964)
 * Sinfonietta (1968–69)
 * Labyrinth (1971)
 * Three Ages (1982)

Piano concertos

 * Piano Concerto No. 1 (1944)
 * Piano Concerto No. 2 (1955)

Suites

 * Suite No. 1 for Strings (1942)
 * Suite No. 2 (1943)
 * Night Music (1943)
 * Poem for 22 Strings (1950)
 * Concertante for Piano, Strings and Percussion (1954)
 * Scherzi (1964)
 * Hamlet Suite (1968)
 * Zodiac Variations (1970)
 * Tamesis (1979)

Chorus and instruments

 * Gold Coast Customs (1947–49) for speakers, male chorus and orchestra
 * The Riverrun (Joyce) (1951) for speakers and orchestra
 * The Shadow of Cain (1952) for speakers, male chorus and orchestra
 * Jerusalem (1970) for speakers, tenor, chorus and orchestra
 * My Beloved Spake (1976) for chorus and organ
 * Dr Faustus (1977) for solo woman, chorus and orchestra

Voice and orchestra

 * 3 Songs of Jocelyn Brooke (1954) for high voice and ensemble
 * Oxus (1967) for tenor and orchestra
 * Contemplations (1975) for mezzo-soprano and orchestra
 * Kubla Khan (1973) for tenor and orchestra

Unaccompanied chorus

 * The Canticle of the Rose (Sitwell, 1965)
 * Rhyme Rude to My Pride (1974) for male chorus

Chamber music

 * Bassoon Quintet (1945)
 * Intermezzo for 11 Instruments (1946)
 * Quartet for Clarinet, Bassoon, Violin and Viola, Op. 12 (1948; a musical palindrome)
 * Passacaglietta in nomine Arnold Schoenberg (1949) for string quartet
 * Gondoliera (1950) for celesta and piano
 * 3 Cat Poems (1951/53): "The Owl and the Pussy-Cat" for speaker, flute, cello and guitar and "Two Practical Cats" for speaker, flute/piccolo, cello and guitar
 * Suite for Clarinet and Piano (1956)
 * Three Movements for String Quartet (1959)
 * Cello Fantasia (1972)
 * Il Penseroso e L'Allegro (1975) for cello and piano

Song cycle

 * Les fleurs du mal (1972) for tenor, horn and piano

Songs

 * Two Songs of A.E. Housman, op. 9 (1946): March Past (On the idle hill of summer) and The Stinging-Nettle, for voice and piano
 * Counting the Beats (1963) for high voice and piano

Piano

 * Sonata (1951)
 * Suite (1955)
 * Prelude on a Theme by Rawsthorne (1965)

Guitar

 * Five Op.61 (1974)

Selected bibliography
Source

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Humphrey Searle


text:
User:Frazzydee/Copyvio

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Antonio Mercero

Antonio Mercero Juldain (7 March 1936 – 12 May 2018) was a Spanish director of the television series Verano azul and Farmacia de guardia. He is best known as the director of a 1972 surrealist short horror film titled La cabina, which won an Emmy Award. His 1998 film A Time for Defiance was entered into the 21st Moscow International Film Festival where it won the Special Silver St. George. In 2010, he was awarded an Honorary Goya Award (Goya de Honor). He died on 12 May 2018 in Madrid at the age of 82 after a battle against Alzheimer's.

Cinema filmography

 * Trotin Troteras (1962)
 * Leccion de arte (1962)
 * Tajamar (1970)
 * La cabina (1972)
 * Manchas de sangre en un coche nuevo (1975)
 * La Guerra de papa (1977)
 * Tobi (1978)
 * Wait for Me in Heaven (1988)
 * Don Juan, mi querido fantasma (1990)
 * A Time for Defiance (1998)
 * The 4th Floor (2003)
 * ¿Y tú quién eres? (2007)

title: Antonio Mercero


text:
Salt flat

Salt flats, Salt flat, Salt Flats, or Salt Flat may refer to:

Geology

 * Salt pan (geology), a flat expanse of ground covered with salt and other minerals
 * Dry lake, an ephemeral lakebed that consists of fine-grained sediments infused with alkali salts

Places

 * Bonneville Salt Flats in Tooele County, Utah, United States
 * Salt Flat, Texas, unincorporated community in Hudspeth County, Texas, United States
 * Salt Flat, Johnson County, Texas, unincorporated community in Johnson County, Texas, United States
 * Salt Flat, Smith County, Texas, unincorporated community in Smith County, Texas, United States
 * Salt Flat, Van Zandt County, Texas, unincorporated community in Van Zandt County, Texas, United States

title: Salt flat


text:
Keter

Keter or Kether (, Keṯer, lit. "crown") is the first of the ten sefirot in the Kabbalistic Tree of Life, symbolizing the divine will and the initial impulse towards creation from the Ein Sof, or infinite source. It represents pure consciousness and transcends human understanding, often referred to as "Nothing" or the "Hidden Light". Keter is associated with the divine name "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh", meaning "I Am that I Am", which was revealed to Moses from the burning bush, and it embodies the qualities of absolute compassion and humility. Its meaning is "crown", and it is interpreted as both the "topmost" of the Sefirot and the "regal crown" thereof.

Keter is positioned at the top of the Tree of Life, sitting above and between Chokmah on the right and Binah on the left, and above Tiferet. It is often depicted with three primary paths: one leading to Chokmah, another to Binah, and the third to Tiferet. This positioning highlights its role as the source from which wisdom (Chokmah) and understanding (Binah) emanate, and it emphasizes its connection to beauty and harmony (Tiferet), thereby facilitating the flow of divine energy through the sefirot.

Keter is called in the Zohar "the most hidden of all hidden things". Moses ben Jacob Cordovero describes Keter as the source of the Thirteen Attributes of Mercy, derived from a verse in the Book of Micah. These attributes emphasize compassion, forgiveness, and humility. Cordovero also outlines ethical behavior associated with Keter in his work The Palm Tree of Devorah, encouraging purity of thought and actions, such as always turning one's ears to hear good and avoiding anger.

In Western esotericism, Keter is linked to the initial point of divine emanation, representing pure formless consciousness. It is associated with various divine and mystical figures, such as the archangel Metatron and the Tetramorph of the Holy Living Creatures.

Etymology and names
The Hebrew word "Keter" (כֶּתֶר) translates to "crown". Since a crown is worn above the head, Keter symbolizes the highest level of the sefirot and the divine will in Kabbalah. Keter is also known as "Nothing" (אַיִן, ayin) or "The Hidden Light" (אוֹר הַגָּנוּז, Or HaGanuz), reflecting its abstract and ineffable nature. Keter is referenced in key Kabbalistic texts such as the Bahir and the Zohar, where it is described as "the most hidden of all hidden things".

History
The concept of Keter has evolved significantly within Kabbalistic thought. Early references to Keter can be found in foundational texts such as the Sefer Yetzirah and Bahir. In these texts, Keter is described as the first emanation, representing the initial divine will and the beginning of creation. The Zohar, a cornerstone of Kabbalistic literature, describes Keter as "the most hidden of all hidden things", emphasizing its transcendence and ineffability. Medieval Kabbalists, including Moses ben Jacob Cordovero (1522-1570) and Isaac Luria (1534-1572), further elaborated on Keter's attributes, solidifying its role as the highest sefirah and its importance in the divine emanation process. These interpretations influenced later Kabbalistic and Hasidic teachings.

Kabbalah made its way into Western esotericism during the Renaissance, largely through the efforts of figures like Johannes Reuchlin (1455-1522), who studied and wrote about Kabbalah extensively. In the 19th century, Eliphas Levi (1810-1875) further integrated Kabbalistic ideas into Western occult traditions. The Hermetic Order of the Golden Dawn, founded by Samuel Liddell MacGregor Mathers (1854-1918) and others, incorporated Kabbalah into their teachings, significantly shaping modern Western esotericism. Aleister Crowley (1875-1947), a prominent figure in Western occultism, also utilized Kabbalistic concepts in his works, particularly in The Book of Thoth, which connects the tarot to the Tree of Life.

Description
According to the Bahir:

"What are the ten utterances? The first is supreme crown, blessed be His name and His people."

The first sefirah is called the Crown, since a crown is worn above the head. The Crown therefore refers to things that are above the mind's abilities to comprehend. All of the other sephirot are likened to the body which starts with the head and winds its way down into action. But the crown of a king lies above the head and connects the concept of "monarchy," which is abstract and intangible, with the tangible and concrete head of the king. The crown endows the person with the power and prerogatives of royalty.

Keter represents the primal stirrings of intent in the Ein Soph (infinity), or the arousal of desire to come forth into the varied life of being. But in this sense, although it contains all the potential for content, it contains no content itself, and is therefore called "Nothing", "The Hidden Light", and the "air that cannot be grasped". Being desire to bring the world into being, Keter is absolute compassion.

Keter is associated with two partzufim or divine personas: Arik Anpin (אריך אנפין) and Atik Yomin (עתיק יומין). Arik Anpin, the "Vast Countenance", symbolizes boundless mercy and spiritual bliss (ענג רוחני, oneg ruchani), while Atik Yomin, the "Ancient of Days", represents the primal roots of divine consciousness and will (רצון, ratzon). In the symbolic family hierarchy, Atik Yomin is the great-grandfather, and Arik Anpin is the grandfather. Together, these partzufim reflect Keter's dual nature as both an all-encompassing force and a deeply concealed, primordial essence.

The name of God associated with Keter is "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh" (Hebrew: אהיה אשר אהיה), the name through which he revealed himself to Moses from the burning bush. Keter, although being the highest sefirah of its world, receives from the sefirah of Malkuth of the domain above it (see Sephirot). The uppermost Keter sits below no other sefirah, although it is below Ohr Ein Sof ("Infinite Light"), which is the source of all Sefirot.

Colour
Keter is often associated with brilliance or translucent white. This color symbolizes the pure, undifferentiated light of the Ein Sof (Infinite), representing the ultimate potential and the source of all creation. Aryeh Kaplan describes Keter as being associated with "radiant, brilliant light" that transcends human perception, symbolizing spiritual purity and divine will. Gershom Scholem notes that Keter's primal light is a metaphor for the most abstract and sublime aspect of the divine. Moshe Idel refers to this light as the "hidden light," embodying the concept of potentiality and the source of all subsequent emanations.

Ethical behaviour
Moses ben Jacob Cordovero, in The Palm Tree of Devorah, discusses ethical behaviour that man should follow, related to the qualities of the Sephirot, in order that man might emulate his Creator. Humility is the first, because although Keter is the highest, it is ashamed to look at its cause, and instead gazes at those below it. One's thoughts should be pure, one's forehead should display no harshness, one's ears should always turn to hear good, one's eyes should distance themselves from noticing evil, always looking at the good, one's nose should be free from the breath of anger, one's face should always shine, and his mouth should express nothing except good.

Thirteen Attributes of Mercy
Through discussion of a line in the Book of Micah, 13 attributes are associated with Keter:

"Who is God like you, who pardons iniquity and forgives the transgressions of the remnant of his heritage? He does not maintain His anger forever, for He delights in kindness. He will again show us compassion, He will vanquish our iniquities, and You will cast all their sins into the depths of the sea. Show faithfulness to Ya'akov, kindness to Avraham, which You have sworn to our fathers from days of old. (Michah, 7:18-20)"

Accordingly, the 13 attributes are derived from this and are described in great detail.

Additionally, the "Thirteen Attributes of Mercy" were described by Rabbi Chizkiyah in an allegorical depiction of a lily among thorns. The metaphor in whole is known and taught as "The lily amongst the thorns," a phrase found in Shir Hashirim 2:2. A summary:

"The secret of spiritual protection is revealed through a richly metaphorical discourse given by Rabbi Chizkiyah. The Rabbi explains that the spiritual forces that protect and watch over us are called the 13 Attributes of Mercy. They are transmitted into our physical world through the first 13 words of the Torah. When judgments are decreed against us, these 13 forces can safeguard us from their influence. We begin drawing this Light of protection to ourselves at the very moment we begin to browse and behold the mystical shapes and sequences of the Aramaic text, and to learn the spiritual insights presented there."

Practical applications
In practical Kabbalistic practices, Keter is approached through meditation and visualization techniques aimed at connecting with the divine will and transcendent consciousness. Practitioners often focus on the attributes of Keter, such as absolute compassion and humility, to cultivate these qualities within themselves. Meditative exercises may involve visualizing the crown above the head, symbolizing the flow of divine energy into one's being. Reciting sacred texts and prayers associated with Keter, such as "Ehyeh Asher Ehyeh," is also common, aiming to align oneself with the highest level of spiritual awareness and intention.

In Western esotericism
In Western esotericism, Keter is considered the purest form of consciousness, transcending time and categories, originating from the Ein Sof Aur ("Limitless Light"), and initiating the process of divine emanation that culminates in Malkuth. Associated with the divine name "Eheieh", the archangel that presides over it is Metatron, the order of angels that resides in it are the Holy Living Creatures (Chaioth ha Qadesh, חיות הקדש), and its physical manifestation is said to be the First Swirlings of the cosmos (Primum Mobile, Rashith ha Gilgalin).

In The Mystical Qabalah, Dion Fortune describes Keter as a timeless point of pure consciousness, marking the beginning of emanation. In the Golden Dawn tradition, Keter is identified with the planet Neptune, reflecting its connection to the mystical and the unknown. In Theosophy and Thelema, Keter is analogous to Ātma and Khabs am Pekht, respectively.

A. E. Waite wrote that Rabbi Azariel ben Menachem, a student of Isaac the Blind, in his Commentary on the Sephiroth granted a particular colour to each sefirah, yet these do not agree with the colours given in the Zohar, where Kether is called colourless, Tiphareth purple, and Malkuth sapphire-blue. In Aleister Crowley's Liber 777, Keter is associated with White Brilliance, the Four Aces of the Tarot, Poseidon, Brahma, Wodan, Zeus, the Trinity, Almond in flower, Diamond, Elixir Vitae, the Dao, and Death. He also connects Keter to the qlippothic order of Thaumiel.

Paths
Keter connects to three primary paths, each leading to different sefirot and associated with specific tarot cards. The path to Chokmah, symbolizing wisdom and the initial creative impulse, is linked to "The Fool", representing potential and new beginnings. The path to Binah, representing understanding and structure, corresponds to "The Magician", symbolizing mastery and manifestation. The path to Tiferet, signifying beauty, balance, and harmony, is associated with "The High Priestess" representing intuition and inner knowledge. These paths highlight Keter's role in channeling divine energy and insight through the Tree of Life.

In popular culture
In the SCP Foundation mythos and related media, "Keter" is one of the primary classifications for anomalous objects or entities. Specifically, the "Keter" classification denotes objects or entities that are exceedingly difficult to reliably contain.

title: Keter


text: User talk:131.120.40.170

title: User talk:131.120.40.170


text:
User:Mrehker

See http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benutzer:Mrehker

title: User:Mrehker


text:
Talk:The Sacramento Bee

Circulation
1.4 million per day? Doesn't that seem a little high?
 * No, Sacramento is a good-sized city with many smaller cities around it. Plus it is the capital of the most populous state in the union.
 * Yes, and the Sacramento Bee is also distributed through newspapers such as the Modesto Bee and Fresno Bee. Also, the Sacramento Bee serves as the largest newspaper for most of Northern California and directly delivers throughout the state. Mo 04:55, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * What do you mean by saying that the Sacramento Bee is distributed through the Modesto Bee and the Fresno Bee? Not true. These are separate newspapers, serving separate communities. The Fresno and Modesto newspapers are not branch versions of the Sacramento paper. Fresno and Modesto circulation figures are tallied separately. They cannot properly (as in ethically or honestly) be added to the total circulation of the Sacramento Bee and they are not included in any Sacramento Bee circulation count. These figures may  be combined only if one is considering a total circulation of newspapers owned by the McClatchy Company, which also owns the Minneapolis Star-Tribune and the Raleigh News & Observer, among many other publications. Please see below.Daphodyl 02:18, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't know how "circulation" is defined, but the New York Times claims to have a daily circulation of about 1.1 million. The Sacramento Bee history page says that the parent company has an average daily circulation of 1.4 million for its 11 newspapers combined.

 * There is a reference for the circulation number.

Henry Bates
The State Treasurer impeached in 1857 was Henry Bates, not Ronald Button. Button held the office in *1957*. Looks like someone read the Bee had investigated the office holder of 1857 and looked up the name of the person at that time (well, 100 years later). It occurs to me that at no point would the name of A. Ronald Button appear in any context with this investigation or impeachment. Moral of the story: Don't do original research, especially if you can't do it right! Huangdi 05:52, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Conflict of interest
An editor called SacBeePublisher has edited this article, the name and the fact that they only edited this article suggests a conflict of interest.--Kevin DewittAlways ping 06:03, 13 December 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:The Sacramento Bee


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Bystrzyca Kłodzka

Bystrzyca Kłodzka (Kladská Bystřice, Habelschwerdt) is a historic town in Kłodzko County, in Lower Silesian Voivodeship in southwestern Poland. It is the administrative seat of Gmina Bystrzyca Kłodzka. As of December 2021, the town has a population of 9,773. The old town of Bystrzyca is famous for its many historical buildings and is a popular tourist destination.

Geography
Bystrzyca Kłodzka lies in the Kłodzko Valley near the confluence of the Eastern Neisse (Nysa Kłodzka) and Bystrzyca Łomnicka rivers, at the feet of the Bystrzyckie Mountains, a range of the Central Sudetes. Part of the Kłodzko Land historical region, it is located about 20 km south of Kłodzko.

History
The area of today's Bystrzyca Kłodzka has been inhabited at least for six millennia. During the times of the Roman Empire the Celts established numerous permanent settlements in the area of Kłodzko along the ancient Amber Road. There are also numerous archaeological excavations of Lusatian culture remnants in the area.

Middle Ages
The town of Habelschwerdt was founded in the mid-13th century by German colonists on estates held by the Bohemian noble Havel of Markvartice, husband of Saint Zdislava Berka. They settled next to the older Slavic village of Bystřice, located on the important trade route leading along the Neisse river from Wrocław in Silesia through the Sudetes to Prague. The citizens were granted town privileges according to the so-called Western Law (a variant of Magdeburg rights). On 4 July 1319, the Luxembourg king John of Bohemia granted the settlement the vast autonomy of an immediate royal city and the right to construct city walls. Until the mid-14th century the town changed its affiliation several times, passing with the Kłodzko Land between Polish and Bohemian rulers. The first noted mayor of Habelschwerdt was Jakob Rücker. The town was constructed almost from scratch and started to grow rapidly. First the city walls were erected with three gates and several towers. Then the market square was planned on a slope and the town hall was constructed. Most of the Gothic architecture was preserved and the town is now considered one of the classical examples of mediaeval architecture. City rights were confirmed by King John's son, Charles IV in 1348 and Habelschwerdt was granted with several other privileges, among them the right to trade with salt, spices and fabric.

The town was incorporated into the County of Kladsko in 1459, an immediate fief of the Bohemian Crown and shared the fate of the nearby city of Kłodzko (Kladsko, Glatz). It developed rapidly until the advent of the Hussite Wars in the early 15th century. The wars left the town depopulated by plagues, partially burnt and demolished by several consecutive floods. It was plundered by the forces of the Hungarian king Matthias Corvinus on his 1469 campaign against King George of Poděbrady. In 1475 a great fire destroyed the town completely.

Modern times
After the Lands of the Bohemian Crown had passed to the Habsburg monarchy, the area became a fief of the ruling Habsburg dynasty in 1567, though the local counts retained their powers. Habelschwerdt and the surrounding villages were gradually repopulated, mostly with settlers from Central Germany and Lesser Poland. It was not until the 16th century when the local economy went back on tracks, while the Protestant Reformation led to a strengthening of radical movements such as Schwenckfelder and Anabaptist groups. Because of major Lutheran influences it became one of the regional centres of Protestantism.

In the late 16th century a new city hall was built and many of the town houses were rebuilt in a Renaissance style. The town also built several facilities like paved roads and a sewer system. However, the Thirty Years' War and stern measures of the Counter-Reformation damaged the city and ended the period of prosperity.

During the Second Silesian War, Hungarian troops and Pandurs again devastated the town. On 14 February 1745, Prussian troops under General Hans von Lehwaldt defeated the Austrian Habsburg forces of Georg Oliver von Wallis nearby. After the Silesian Wars, Habelschwerdt, together with the County of Kladsko and most of Silesia, came under Prussian rule according to the 1763 Treaty of Hubertusburg. In the War of the Bavarian Succession, skirmishers from Austrian army commanded by Dagobert Sigmund von Wurmser fought there against the Prussian garrison, and one of the blockhouses caught fire, resulting in the destruction of most of the town in mid-January 1779. During the Napoleonic Wars, the town was occupied by French forces and housed a garrison of the Grande Armée until 1813. By 1818 the County of Kladsko was formally dissolved and Habelschwerdt was incorporated into the Prussian Province of Silesia. Although it was made the administrative seat of a rural district (Landkreis), comprising the southeastern parts of the former county, it was also struck by high taxes. It was not until the mid-19th century when the town fully recovered. The city hall was yet again rebuilt, the city moat and parts of the walls were leveled and the settlement expanded into new areas. After 1877, Habelschwerdt was connected to Glatz and Breslau (Wrocław) by a railroad. In 1885, Habelschwerdt had a population of 5,597, while by 1939 it rose to 6,877. Its population was overwhelmingly Catholic. The end of the 19th century saw the whole Kłodzko Valley turned into one of the most popular tourist regions. Countless hotels, sanatoria and spa were opened to the public in the nearby towns of Glatz, Bad Reinerz (present-day Duszniki-Zdrój) and Bad Landeck (Lądek-Zdrój), as well as in the town itself. The area of former Kladsko county became a popular place among the rich bourgeoisie of Breslau, Berlin, Vienna and Kraków.

A labour camp of the Reich Labour Service was operated in the town under Nazi Germany. During World War II the town was spared the fate of many other towns and did not suffer great damage. There were no important industrial centres in the area, and most of the Kłodzko Valley was not captured by the Red Army until after the capitulation of Germany. After the war the town once again became part of Poland due to the new borders dictated by the Potsdam Agreement. It was renamed to its historic Polish name Bystrzyca, and the adjective Kłodzka was added to distinguish it from other Polish settlements of the same name.

In 1961 the town limits were expanded by including Niedźwiedna as a new district. In 1964, the only Phillumenist Museum (Muzeum Filumenistyczne) in Poland was founded in Bystrzyca Kłodzka. On 28 June 1972 the Catholic parishes of Bystrzyca Kłodzka were reassigned from the traditional Hradec Králové diocese (est. 1664; Ecclesiastical Province of Bohemia) to the Archdiocese of Wrocław. Between 1975 and 1998 Bystrzyca belonged to Wałbrzych Voivodeship. It continues to be one of the principal mountain resorts of the area. Thanks to its historical landmarks as well as virgin landscapes, Bystrzyca Kłodzka remains one of the most popular centers for tourism and winter sports in Lower Silesia.

Sports
The local football club is Polonia Bystrzyca Kłodzka. It competes in the lower leagues.

Notable people

 * Titus Ullrich (1813–1891), poet and art critic
 * Rudolf Bial (1834–1881), violinist, composer, conductor
 * Hermann Stehr (1864–1940), poet
 * Andreas Hönisch (1930–2008), cleric
 * Georg Katzer (1935–2019), composer
 * Jan Liwacz (1898–1980), blacksmith who created the Arbeit Macht Frei sign over Auschwitz
 * Marek Magierowski (born 1971), diplomat and journalist
 * Marcin Marciniszyn (born 1982), sprinter
 * Hanson Milde-Meissner (1899–1983), composer

Twin towns – sister cities
See twin towns of Gmina Bystrzyca Kłodzka.

title: Bystrzyca Kłodzka


text:
User:Shmuliq

Creating a home page for you, since you don't have one. Jayjg 21:14, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

title: User:Shmuliq


text:
User:Captbaritone

I am a 20 year old (as of 2005) classical voice student at San Francisco State University. My interests are in opera and computers.

Current Projects

 * WikiProject Opera

My Pages

 * Contributions
 * Watchlist

title: User:Captbaritone


text:
Talk:Partisan Review

William Phillips
Which one? There are at least seven famous William Phillips. --Edcolins 21:16, Aug 16, 2004 (UTC)
 * I have no idea, but I don't think it's any of the ones on the disambig page. Gamaliel 02:32, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I added this one on the disambiguation list as William Phillips (writer). This page can help to write a short bio about him. WouterVH 16:04, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

Publication
Why did the magazine cease publication? Nathan0490 15:40, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

 * 2003. Carrite (talk) 21:00, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

after stalin
What does this mean? Does it mean once stalin came to power, after his death, what?

 * This is factually wrong, Stalin was already in power in 1934 when the magazine started. Eliminating this language. Carrite (talk) 21:00, 17 September 2014 (UTC)

Rewritten
I've done a ground-up rewrite of the piece on this date. Carrite (talk) 05:19, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Partisan Review


title: Template:SwimmingAt2004SummerOlympics


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User talk:Morwen/archive7

Members of Senate and Dail
Can i suggest a name change to your articles on the composition of the Dail and Seanad? Others might want to do articles on previous compositions of the Dail and Senate so i suggest we follow the practice on articles like 108th United States Congress and give these articles the titles "Members of the 29th Dail" and "Members of the 22nd Seanad". This is the way that these bodies refer to themselves ("eireann" part is usually left out in this context). Oh, good work btw. Iota 23:26, 15 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Category:British politicians
Hmm - a category with several thousand members is clearly farcical. My suggestion is that we split it into subcategories and each politician can be a member of several. Subcategories we could use include ones related to office (this could get rid of all those boxes too), ones related to party and maybe even elected term. I'll have some thoughts and stick them on the category's talk page. Secretlondon 05:51, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

My proposal: Category talk:British politicians Secretlondon 06:00, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Metropolitan Borough of Oldham/Oldham (borough)
Whilst Metropolitan Borough of Oldham is longer to type, it is a more official title for the place, only for convenience do some people call it Oldham. I honestly don't know the naming policy for situations like this, but I believed it was to go for the full name where possible. SimonMayer 11:18, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

OK, it seems to be fairly standard. I will tolerate it. SimonMayer 12:26, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Proposed InfoBoxes for Districts and Unitaries
Now on WikiProject UK Subdivisions. Anything else that ought to be included? --Keith Edkins 15:14, 19 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Map size - agreed. Will adopt this size. --Keith Edkins 17:21, 21 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * I will aim for a longest axis of about 150px.

Califia
Hi M ... I'm going to replace the edits you made (except 'born') as that is the terminology he uses himself and so it would be wrong to make them all male-identified. --VampWillow 11:55, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Pink bits
I've just seen your pink bits page. I'm somewhat curious as to why you don't list the parts of the United States that were ruled by the UK at one time. David Newton 21:45, 22 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Districts of England trivia
Surely this has to be in the next Wiki meet-up quiz :) Warofdreams 17:16, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Whatever makes you think that I've been reading it? ...well done. A drink on me.  I've thought about a list of islands by population before.  I'm not sure how far it'll be possible to get, but I'll start it off.  What do you think as to disambiguating islands by Beaver Island, Falkland Islands or Beaver Island (Falkland Islands)?  I prefer the former, but User:Bkonrad is insisting on the latter.  And finally, do you think I'd be any good as a bureaucrat?  If so (or of course if you think I'd be thoroughly unsuitable), please vote at Requests for adminship. Warofdreams 18:00, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Looks good at first glance, will study it tomorrow but have to go now. Warofdreams 19:45, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Also looks good at second glance. It might also be worth mentioning the formation of the counties - some were former kingdoms, some were formed when Wessex gained contrl of Mercia, some were formed by the Normans, etc.  I can't find a Marxist analysis of the movement, but I'm sure there is one - I'll ask a Marxist geographer I know. Warofdreams 11:33, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

England County Expert, I come asking a favor
I've bounced around to several UK Wikipedians seeking advice, all of whom assure me they haven't a clue, and advising me to ask someone else. My most recent request at Angela's talk page redirected me to you, and I've finally gotten around to taking her advice. I will be honeymooning in England this July, and will spend a week (the majority of the trip) in Rutland by almost pure chance. I know little about Rutland and the guidebooks are largely silent. I'm just wondering if anyone can tell me a little more about Rutland -- what sights might be worth seeing, what local knowledge is good to have, etc., etc. I know you must be busy, but if you have any thoughts they would be most welcome. If you know little about Rutland, well, then my wife and I will have an adventure. :-) Thanks in advance, Jwrosenzweig 19:47, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Thanks so much! I appreciate your advice -- Stamford and Peterborough both look worth a visit.  We're depending on public transit (no money for a rental car), so that should be interesting, but we're looking forward to the challenges. Thanks again for your thoughts, Jwrosenzweig 20:04, 23 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It looks okay but I would have chosen a different example - there must have been some in the fox hunting bills or something similar. Secretlondon 19:09, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * I'd still find an example on something that you don't care about. Secretlondon 19:16, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Is this better? Secretlondon 19:19, 24 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Etymologies
I thought about that, but it doesn't work for all of them. But it's worth a try. Do you want to do it or shall I? -- Graham ☺ | Talk 18:11, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Well I'm going to get my tea in a mo, if you haven't done anything with it by the time I come back online, I'll have a bash at it myself. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 18:18, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

An idea
Er, yes. Maybe. Actually it's rather less daunting than populating Categories for Counties, which I seem to be sucking myself into. --Keith Edkins 19:40, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Try List of English districts by ethnic diversity (subtly different spin!).

Greetings from an old friend
I don't know if you remember me, but I was once User:65.73.0.137. I am now logged in as Marcus2. The problem now is that I have been receiving rude messages from another user of whom I politely addressed my concerns, and he almost turned the discussion into a bitter argument. I have made many great contributions to the encyclopedia and was wondering how I can use "Sysops" to block vandals or rude users if need be. Thanks. --Marcus2 23:14, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Hello, there! Marcus2 is referring to me. I'm the one who have posted so-called "rude" messages. However, it makes me laugh, when he says to you, that he has been "polite" to me. That is totally incorrect! Rienzo 02:25, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * You have been very much rude to others. Mike H 02:27, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)

 * Could you exemplify? Thank you. Rienzo 06:51, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Could you keep this off my talk page, thank-you? Morwen - Talk 07:09, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

That purple dress
You look just like my cousin Elizabeth in that photo with the purple dress on. You don't lead a double life as an artist-cum-mother of three do you??? -- Graham ☺ | Talk 00:27, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Must be the dress. Or the hair.  Or something. -- Graham  ☺ | Talk 00:32, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Not always, but she was last time I met up with her and the photo of that occasion (her sister's wedding) looks exactly like the photo you have on your user page. Uncanny. -- Graham  ☺ | Talk 12:04, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Re : Map of Tripura
I would like to request u to please remove the map of Tripura that you have uploaded as it is a distorted map of India. It doesn't show Jammu and Kashmir as a part of India. I would request u to use the map available on the web-site of Tripura Government (www.tripura.nic.in) instead.

 * Hello. As per standard international practive, we treat the Line of Control as the international border.  Showing all of Kashmir as part of India (or all of it as part of Pakistan) would violate our Neutral point of viote policy. Morwen - Talk 08:39, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

To dicuss with me more on a certain topic, please visit my talk page. Thank you. Marcus2 14:49, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

James Harries
Hi, I replied on my talk page. --bodnotbod 16:42, Jun 29, 2004 (UTC)

New Forest
Do you think we should merge New Forest and New Forest National Park? I know that the Park won't cover the entire forest, but it seems a little odd to have two seperate articles about it. Morwen - Talk 18:49, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC) (copied from user talk:Doops)

 * Gee, I dunno. The argument for merging is that, right now, somebody visiting New Forest National Park might not bother to follow the link to New Forest, and would therefore miss out on all the interesting info. But on the other hand, in addition to the geographical boundary issue, there's the temporal one as well: it seems unfair to have an article on the New Forest National Park (founded 2004) and not one on the ancient New Forest. So if we were to merge them, I would suggest locating the merged article at New Forest and including a section on the park. (I made a test version: see User:Doops/NewForest.) (For another example of a nat'l park article which is mainly about the place and only mentions the park as an afterthought, see Yorkshire Dales.) Doops 19:40, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Ah, you say that, but before today, there was no article about the Yorkshire Dales! I moved it from Yorkshire Dales National Park - which was quite absurd place for it to be. I think we should have a presumption to merge, unless there are strong reasons for not. Morwen - Talk 19:42, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC) (copied from user talk:Doops))

 * OK, so we're agreed. I don't really have any strong opinion; but accepting your presumption to merge, we're agreed that the merged article belongs at New Forest not New Forest National Park. Great. Now I've never used the 'merge' function before: how is it better than just editing the two articles individually? (More specifically, if we "merge" the two pages, what happens to the New Forest National Park history?) Doops 19:46, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Hi. Thanks for taking care of it. I have to say that I don't see the benefits of merging -- from what I can see, somebody trying to follow that history is bound to be utterly utterly confused. Only you and I will ever understand what happened there, surely; and we will die someday, taking our knowledge to the grave. It seems to me that keeping the New Forest National Park history at that site -- even if it is only a redirect! -- would be clearer and more transparent, if adequately commented. (But I guess I shouldn't be bothering you with this; it belongs at the village pump or somewhere. Alternatively, of course, the merged history could have some way to show that there were two separate strands which merged; right now, if you read one of the "New Forest National Park" historical versions at the New Forest history, there's nothing (unless I'm missing it) to show you what page the history actually belongs to!) Anyway, sorry to ramble on. [Thanks, by the way, for crediting me :) when you updated things!] Doops 20:09, 29 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Requests for comment/User:Rienzo
Are you interested in endorsing this? Rick'''K 04:44, Jun 30, 2004 (UTC)

As requested
On another topic, where did you find the Labour candidate for Hodge Hill? He's not mentioned on the national Labour Party site, and the Birmingham district site is stuck in 2002. (A point not lost on the local Lib Dems, who published a list of Labour Candidates as well as their own! )

Iran Unnumbered
Hi Morwen,

Do you have a copy of Image:IranNumbered.png without the numbers? -- ChrisO 10:53, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I didn't contact RESPECT. Secretlondon 14:20, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Hexhamshire
Interesting... according to Northumberland County Council, "Hexhamshire was a separate County for almost 300 years until Queen Elizabeth I annexed it back to Northumberland in 1571."

According to, "Until 1571, Hexham was head of an ancient shire which was a regality, county palatinate and diocese. In this year, by Act of Parliament the shire was incorporated into the County of Northumberland and became an ecclesiastical peculiar of the Diocese of York. The term Hexhamshire is still used to refer to the area comprising the parishes of Hexham, Allendale and St John Lee."

But that doesn't quite link in with what the 1911 encyclopedia says. It seems to get the date right (1572), as in the House of Commons records for 29 May 1572 there is "Mr. Doctor Lewes and Mr. Doctor Huycke do bring from the Lords a Bill touching the annexing of Hexham and Hexhamshire to the County of Northumberland."

And according to the North East England History Pages, "By the time of the Norman Conquest Hexham and its abbey were part of the see of Durham but in the reign of Henry I it regained a degree of independence, when the town and its surrounding district known as Hexhamshire, were confiscated from the Prince Bishops of Durham and given to the Archbishops of York, to whom it belonged until 1837."

Another interesting link: Warofdreams 18:49, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * I've made a start at an article. What do you think? Warofdreams 19:23, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the correction - I've fixed it. Meanwhile, looking at John Speed's late 16th century map of Gloucestershire, he indicates that it was traditionally divided into four quarters (possible called pricks, although I'm not sure).  I can't find anything more on it.  Any ideas? Warofdreams 18:38, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The earliest map I can find of the counties in the area is from 1594, which shows the county boundary with Bath well inside it. Warofdreams 19:06, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The Cartoon Vandal
Our friend User:66.123.252.135 decided to make a new appearance. He recreated Hollywood Jam and added mentions of it to several articles. I took the liberty of adding them to the list at User:Morwen/Cartoon. I doubled the length of the last block, so it's up to a month now.

I hate persistent troublemakers. -- Cyrius|✎ 05:13, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Traditional counties of England
Good fix! Thanks for your efforts, — Matt 12:15, 3 Jul 2004 (UTC)

parliament
So I added a lot in the article Parliament of Serbia and Montenegro. If you find it is good now nominate it again. Avala 18:30, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Welsh Bicknor
Hi Morwen, unfortunately my knowledge of the history of Welsh Bicknor is only as deep as the article i've already written! Pazzer 14:00, 5 Jul 2004

RFC reverts
Thanks for all your help in the reverts. Can't the page be protected? Mike H 20:06, Jul 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * I think something has to be done, and soon, because there will come a time when I go do exercise, or get something to eat, or sleep, and the whole thing will be reverted again. This person seems ready for the long haul. Mike H 20:10, Jul 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * Oh, I can't have a beer, love. To drink in the States you have to be 21. But your point is taken. :-D Mike H 20:13, Jul 5, 2004 (UTC)

Cities of the UK
Hi: Just a comment on the Irish section. For most of the Irish cities you list the RC cathedrals, but for Dublin you use one of the Church of Ireland ones, Christchurch. FYI (and you may already know this) Dublin is unique in having two medieval cathedrals (St Patrick's being the second). Both of these are CofI. The RC see uses St. Mary's Pro-Cathedral. 83 Marlborough Street, Dublin 1. It seems a pity to introduce this RC/CofI inconsistency into an otherwise excellent article. Bmills 13:51, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Actually, I read too quickly. Only two are wrong, and I've fixed them. The situation is anything but clear-cut. Waterford, for instance, is the only city in Europe, as far as I know, with Catholic and Protestant cathedrals designed by the same person. Some Irish sees have two cathedrals of the same name (Armagh). Dublin has no full-blown RC cathedral. As an atheist Dubliner living in Limerick who once spent a lot of time in Waterford, I'm almost uniquely positioned to spot this! Bmills 14:20, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The N. Ireland ones are spot on, bearing in mind that Armagh also has an RC St Pat's. The Scottish I wouldn't know. Maybe a Scottish wikipaedian could help? Bmills 14:36, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Confusion about Copyright
Hi Moren, I made a contributed an article today on Canadian Playwright, Michael MacLennan. I have total permission to do that however the article was taken down because of copyright violation suspicion. How to I go about changing that? And what tags do I use to identify that I have permission to use it as well as the text? Thank you for your assistence. User:MatthewRedMatthewRed 08:03, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I am very impressed. Yes I am the webmaster for Mr. MacLennan. Also, it is my first time overseeing a site so I am still learning the ropes. In what way can I show you proof? This site is completely amazing!! MatthewRed 08:20, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I have put my name as designer on Mr. MacLennan's site. To show you that I have permission to use all the material on the site. Again, thanks for your help. MatthewRed 08:41, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

My band
After I had sent you my reply and mentioned my band I wasn't sure how appropriate that was to make such a statement. My band is named Pepperspray (I designed the site) We opened for Cher when she was here in town and we are opening for the Foo Fighters next month. We do punk/new covers covers and originals. We are very political when it comes to transgender issues of all kinds. That's why I mentioned Cher, because the crowd was not quite prepared for our brand of music and appearance. I enjoyed reading your profile. MatthewRed 09:04, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi Morwen! Thanks for getting the copyright on the Michael MacLennan article sorted out with Matthew! I have removed the listings from Copyright problems. —Stormie 12:18, Jul 7, 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Featured article candidates
I reinstated your edit on Featured article candidates as I think it was deleted by mistake, I hope that isn’t overstepping my bounds here... Anárion 12:48, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Greetings from inept Wiki Contributor
Hey Moran, I hope this message finds you well. I am feeling very stupid due to rushing into contributing my first article. Because of that I have a long history on one article. The reason I am writing is that I uploaded an updated image of MacLennan which was way to big then I tried to uploaded it again resized and it is not the new version of the resized one. What should I do? Thanks! MatthewRed 07:53, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip
I tried it and it worked but it kept using the second resized image. So I just went in and wrote the syntax to resize it and it lines up well with the text. I appreciate how quick you are to respond. I hope your having a good weekend! MatthewRed 22:58, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

VfD repair (11 July 2004)
Hi Morwen, I see you were working on fixing VfD. I'm assuming that you've finished, so I've unprotected the page. I'll be happy to answer any questions you might have. Thanks for your help, Wile E. Heresiarch 16:42, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Lancashire
New map uploaded. I assume that the part of West Lancashire south of Ormskirk, which is Bickerstaffe ward, is included in the Greater Sefton as well, as it would be detatched from Wigan. --Keith Edkins 08:04, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I don't think so - that's just the technicalities of running referendums in general. There's nothing about specific cases. --Keith Edkins 09:09, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Revert
Thanks for reverting my page. It was very much appreciated, and likewise I'll watch for your page if anyone does anything suspicious to you. :-) Mike H 00:55, Jul 14, 2004 (UTC)

Leicester
Hiya Morwen, I know you're a Leicester lass, could you have a word with Marcus2 on his user talk page? He's being a bit difficult over the Engelbert Humperdinck issue... -- Graham ☺ | Talk 10:48, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Then you should know better than to let a little twonk like that get to you. And wikipedia does it to me all the time, try throwing the computer out of the window. It may not help much but it sure makes you feel better... -- Graham  ☺ | Talk 10:50, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Well I've had it in the neck from him before because I'm the sysop that deleted his precious Elvis Presley's influence article (twice) and then suggested to other users that they may like to list Template:Elvis Presley and Elvis Presley trivia for deletion. Oh well sitting here arguing with him is a wonderful alternative to work... -- Graham  ☺ | Talk 11:04, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

List of English districts by population
Oops! Fixed now. --Keith Edkins 19:41, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

PaX FA Discussion
Please evaluate PaX and withdraw your objection on the WP:FAC if it is satisfactory.

Sorry, I struck it after rewriting PaX, as I had misread the directions at the top :) My fault.  Still, I need you to verify it.

--Bluefox Phoenix Lucid 01:09, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

London Boroughs
Yes I suppose so. There's a variable amount of information already there, some of which will need to be worked back into the body text or the Infoboxes will take over the world! --Keith Edkins 19:58, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

All completed now. On a related subject, if the City of London is a Ceremonial County of itself, should it not be included in Template:England counties? --Keith Edkins 12:54, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

User:80.229.39.194
Is User:80.229.39.194 an alias of you, or an impostor pretending to be you? He/she claims to be you. Marcus2 21:18, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Farthings etc
Thanks for the link for the Farthings of Gloucestershire; I'll read the page more thoroughly as it seems a useful source (though some other sources for some of that information would be good, too). Warofdreams 19:16, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Sys op help please
User:K1 keeps deleting my contributions to several articles (currently mostly) Religious minorities in Iran and William C. Rogers III either without comment or with abusive comment only. I do not want to participate in a revert war, but rather debate matters on the talk pages. Could you please protect both pages at whatever stage you feel ok to force some debate ? If you have other suggestions to make matters a bit better, that would be great too. I have put the matter onto the RfC pages [] Thanks a lot ! Refdoc 09:17, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, anyway!

WikiProject Unrecognized countries
This may appeal to you. Secretlondon 12:15, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Re: Reverting your edit
Sorry about that. Brainfart. Didn't notice you had moved the material into a new paragraph — I thought you had deleted half a paragraph of content. I'm off to revert my edit. Johnleemk | Talk 14:52, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Page moving
Thanks for your reaction. I can agree. I tried to move People's Party for Freedom and Democracy (Netherlands) to People's Party for Freedom and Democracy, but I couldn't succeed in that. Can you help? Gangulf 21:15, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Have U seen?
Regional assembly votes postponed http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3915869.stm --Keith Edkins 13:40, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Re: Ormskirk: Er, yes, right, OK so the unparished area isn't all Ormskirk, some of it is Skelmersdale! I have amended Image:Lancashire Option2 mod.png. --Keith Edkins 09:28, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Socialist Workers Party (UK)
Thanks for that - I've tried to NPOV it. To be fair, some of the previous article did seem overly anti-SWP. Warofdreams 17:53, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * I can see the idea with your revert of County of Gloucester, but the City and County of Gloucester was a county corporate distinct from Gloucestershire. Warofdreams 18:52, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * OK, that makes sense - I'll leave well along :-) Warofdreams 19:01, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Image:LocationIslandIreland.png
I'm happy with your change in May which I have just spotted - the first attempt was just a quick one to show location without suggesting it was a single country. --Henrygb 21:02, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

District and county maps
Hey there. Is there somewhere I can grab a tarball of all the district and county maps for England (and Wales) without having to download them all? I'd like to put the English ones on cy: now we have five counties, plus several districts up in Lloegr. Marnanel 03:16, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Berwick
Well it was a nice story. If it had been valid, then I think it should have remained in the article. I'll look into it more. Mintguy (T)

Districts of Serbia
I think that this map can help you in drawing Districts of Serbia.

I found this image which I would use to draw the map if I was not such a lousy drawer.

It shows all districts and hope it will help you. Numbers are different from current wikipedias.

Best luck --[[User:Avala|Avala| ★ ]] 10:48, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Halls of residence
Halls of residence, as made clear on that page, is a plural. It needs an administrator to move it to Hall of residence. Would you oblige, please? Thank you. Andy Mabbett 11:01, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Liberal Party
Reversing yourself now, huh? ;-) --[[User:VampWillow|VampWillow]] 22:24, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Maps
Hello, I was wondering where you got those region aps of African countries, or do you make them yourself?

title: User talk:Morwen/archive7


text: User talk:62.74.66.2

title: User talk:62.74.66.2


text:
Category talk:Architects

Untitled
Is there some distinct advantage to grouping architects by their nationality? IMHO we would do much better to group them by their school - Category:Modernist architects, for example. - jredmond 21:19, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Doesn't have to be either/or - add both! Stan 22:11, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * That could work. I can see a few problems here and there when it comes to determining nationalities, but then again those are the same problems that lots of other categories deal with.  :|  - jredmond 22:27, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Image
This is not the places for images, that is what articles are for. I have removed the image of Marcel Breuer. Bejnar 20:51, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

title: Category talk:Architects


text:
Talk:Muenster, Texas

Untitled
Hello, Im from Münster, Germany. Funny to read that there is a town in Texas named after my resident town. And funny that you have a Christkindlesmarkt in Muenster, Texas, which actually we don't have in Westphalia :-) Greetings from one M ü/ue nster to the other! Stern 21:20, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I've actually never lived in Muenster, but it is my father's hometown. I don't think anyone in Muenster has ever heard of Wikipedia.

A lot of Germans ended up in Texas, as you can tell by the fact that the name Westphalia was already taken. I know a good number of the local families aren't originally from Westphalia, which probably explains the Christkindlmarkt. Of course, I'm sure its very good for tourism. The town plays up its heritage with the tourists. There's three German restaurants in town; the one the tourists like makes its waitresses wear little Bavarian-style costumes.

I did make a point to go to Münster while in Germany, just to see the original. My family got a big kick out of that. Laura Scudder 00:13, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm originally from northern Germany and there and here in the west the people are wondering (and smiling) about the german image abroad (not only in the US): Oktoberfests, Christkindlesmarkts, leather throusers, Alpes, this typical Tiroler Hut (even from Austria) etc. It would look very funny if someone in Münster would wear this. My teacher lived in Anchorage, Alaska for a while. He told me there was an advertisement for the Airport Frankfurt. But the photo showed someone in leather throusers. Very funny. But I think it is a cosy image and better than the militant stereotype, which still lives since 60 years in some heads abroad because of WWII. I lived in Sweden for a while and the image of Germany there is similar, even though it is so close. A French girl even told me, she thought Germans never laugh, before she studied here. Are there still buildings or symbols in Muenster, Texas that you found in Münster, Westphalia too? Or is it just the name that survived? Did you like Münster (it is not my hometown, you don't have to be polite :-)? Stern 07:59, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I wasn't in Münster very long, so unfortunately I don't really remember forming much beyond a superficial opinion of it - been a few years since that trip. I think that most everyone who eventually settled in Muenster were from all over the country (my own relatives were from somewhere in Prussia, I think Pomerania - the story is kinda vague but centers on wanting to avoid impressment) which explains the weird amalgamation of German traditions from all over.

 * They have rather a vested interest in keeping the general American image of Germans as fun as possible (lederhosen and all) since their tourism rather centers on the town's ethnic traditions. (I imagine that after the wartime propaganda that was rather difficult. However, the majority of the post-war animosity I've noticed is from the pacific theater, which we fought in longer and where  we lost more people.)  The small towns that totally Americanized are doing a good job at reclaiming their old heritage in the name of tourism dollars (ie Caldwell, Texas, which has gone from unregonizable as orignally Czech to the self-proclaimed "Kolache capital of Texas").  Muenster's annual Germanfest is a little like this.

 * When I lived in Germany a Norwegian friend started talking about a politician in his homeland who wore lederhosen and whose main platform was that hunting and whaling should remain legal. I had a pretty solid stereotype of lederhosen as a German thing, when of course I didn't see any in Germany, and here is a Norwegian politician strutting around in them, which was a pretty entertaining thought.  There's some amusing American political figures for sure, but none in lederhosen.  Laura Scudder 02:31, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Muenster, Texas


text:
Moonbat

"Moonbat" is a pejorative political epithet used in United States politics, referring to liberals, progressives, or leftists (especially the far-left).

Etymology
Descriptions of bat-like people on the Moon were part of the 1835 Great Moon hoax.

A long poem, The Proving of Gennad: A Mythological Romance by Landred Lewis (1890), uses the term "moonbat" to refer to unsound ideas, but not specifically political ones.

The term was used by science fiction author Robert A. Heinlein in the 1947 short story "Space Jockey" as the name of a rocket spacecraft used for the third step of a journey from the Earth to the Moon.

Examples of usage

 * Columnist and radio talk show host Howie Carr has used the term a number of times in his column in the Boston Herald.  On the radio he frequently uses the term as a pejorative toward those holding left-wing political beliefs.       In 2008, Carr wrote about the number of "Moonbats" inhabiting the town of Arlington, Massachusetts.  In response, a  group of Arlington residents founded the Menotomy Moonbats to raise money for their local public schools: Menotomy was the historical name for Arlington during the American Revolutionary War.
 * On March 14, 2000 Jonah Goldberg's National Review Online column "Our, *ahem*, FAQ Welcome New Readers" contained the following: "Alas, because Goldberg watches Baywatch everyday and can name the main characters in almost every Marvel comic book from 1976 to 1986, he occasionally makes errors. Far more often, he simply writes things that make readers say, 'Is this guy higher than a moonbat?'"
 * Margery Eagan, another Herald columnist, used the term several times in 2006 and 2007 to characterize some supporters of former Massachusetts Democratic governor Deval Patrick.
 * Columnist and blogger Michelle Malkin was quoted in March 2006 by Howard Kurtz as writing, "But now the determined moonbat hordes have exposed multiple instances of what clearly appear to me to be blatant lifting of entire, unique passages by [blogger] Ben Domenech from other writers," in reference to Domenech's resignation from the Washington Post after evidence of his plagiarism came to light.
 * The term has been used in the UK to refer to George Monbiot, owing to its similarity with his surname, and referring to his left-wing views.
 * "Moonbat" is the name of Conservative Jones' sidekick, a recurring character in the political cartoon This Modern World by Tom Tomorrow.

title: Moonbat