text:
Talk:Cocoanut Grove fire

Untitled
According to the page here: http://www.surfnetinc.com/chuck/terms15.htm Buck Jones was unlikely to have gone back to rescue people.

 * My father was in Boston that night (statinoned there at that time in the Navy). He and a friend were leaving a movie when my father asked his friend, "What is that awful smell?" to which his frriend replied, "It smells like human flesh burning!"  The tale of this event told from the perspective of the Holy Cross football team is probably the very best of Paul Harvey's "The Rest of the Story".  Rlquall 21:32, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

There is a book about the Cocoanut Grove fire: "Holocaust" by Paul Benzaquin. It was published a number of years ago. Thanks...Kurt

Stanley Tomaszewski
I suggest that the Stanley Tomaszewski be merged into this article, trimmed down, if necessary. He is only notable for the fire, he started the fire and the articles can be merged without making the article too long. -- Kjkolb 06:38, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I think a merge would be a good idea. Stanley Tomaszewski had no other notability outside his role in the fire. SteveB 10:32, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * agree with merge. Argyrios 03:37, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Support but keep a redirect from the name.  rxnd  ( t  |  €  |  c  ) 16:04, 30 April 2006 (UTC)
 * OK. I merged the information from Stanley Tomaszewski into this article, then changed it into a redirect here.--Ssbohio 21:27, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Legal evidence banning usage of 'Cocoanut Grove' as name of new nightclub?
The History Channel's "Modern Marvels" series (episode "Engineering Disasters 13") again affirms that it is against the law in Boston (or Massachusetts?) to name any new nightclub The Cocoanut Grove. Is there any actual legal evidence of this? The current page states that it is a myth, but this appears to be based solely on the information in John Esposito's book. I think a legal citation here would be the definitive proof, if it so exists. Evixir (talk) 20:55, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Natl Fire Protection Association, in an extremely well-written piece that contains a lot of detail from a great number of perspectives, states "immediately following the fire, the Boston Licensing Board ruled that no place of entertainment could ever again use the name Cocoanut Grove." http://www.nfpa.org/publicJournalDetail.asp?categoryID=1517&itemID=36513&src=NFPAJournal&cookie_test=1 Irish Melkite (talk) 06:33, 28 January 2013 (UTC)

Casablanca?
It seems unlikely the decorations were an attempt to imitate the Casablanca movie as it was not released until 2 days before the fire, and then only in California. A more plausible explanation for the decorations is that they were part of a general tropical theme suggested by the name Cocoanut Grove and the resemblance to the movie was a coincidence.
 * The "Casablanca" style actually predated the movie Casablanca, and began in the Thirties with the immensely popular Charles Boyer movies "Algiers" and "The Garden of Allah". Whether the Cocoanut Grove was decorated in a pseudo-North African style or in a pseudo-Caribbean style I don't know, but "Casablanca" was a common name for the pseudo-North African style long before the movie - if anything, the movie was named after (and influenced by) the style, not vice versa. --NellieBly (talk) 00:36, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

Incidentally, fair use photos
A few weeks ago I added two photos from the Boston Globe archives to the article, but I didn't explain the additions here as I should have. I believe there's an excellent fair use justification for using them. The first photo shows the boarded-up front windows (you can see where the boarding was hacked away by firefighters) and also shows how surprisingly narrow the entryway was, something difficult if not impossible to describe in words. The second photo shows how patrons were blocked from exiting, and in addition shows both the destructiveness of the fire and the fact that it wasn't all that hot - the wooden chairs didn't burn. Because the images illustrate not just the fact that a fire took place but why the fire was so unusually deadly (and, in addition, why it was obvious to investigators from the beginning that the building was not in compliance with code), I believe these images constitute fair use. --NellieBly (talk) 00:49, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't think these images qualify as fair use in this context. Maghnus (talk) 05:53, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

this has no context and makes no sense in the article.
November 28, 1942

Thirteen days earlier, six firemen had been killed and 43 injured in the collapse of a building.[1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.38.197.76 (talk) 16:56, 27 January 2013 (UTC)

Investigation section has no investigation information
Maybe the Investigation section should be re-titled "Aftermath"? It's important information, but it doesn't describe any investigation. Dcs002 (talk) 10:57, 9 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20120507061956/http://www.bostonfirehistory.org/firestory11281942.html to http://www.bostonfirehistory.org/firestory11281942.html

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 * Links work and seem very useful. Both links are the same, so I will combine references . Dhtwiki (talk) 12:25, 13 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Links are for a reference and an external link, which may be worthwhile to keep as such. Dhtwiki (talk) 12:40, 13 July 2016 (UTC)

Freon
The use of the word "freon" is inaccurate as it is a brand name for a large line of refrigerants now produced by The Chemours Company. In 1942, the most likely refrigerant originally used was dichlorodifluoromethane (R-12) produced jointly by General Motors and DuPont under the business name Kinetic Chemicals. "Freon" is commonly used as a generic term for all refrigerants, but this is incorrect. Instances of the use of the word "freon" should be replaced by the term "CFC refrigerant" because referring to the refrigerant used as "freon" is equivalent to referring to all motor vehicles as "Chevrolets".

66.189.254.40 (talk) 22:46, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Please explain further. Chemours is a 2015 spin-off from DuPont. They may own the patent now, but what was used in 1942 was Freon according to its article, being designated R-12. Is the Chevy analogy apt? Are we not talking about differentiating Chevys sourced from different GM plants (other than by VIN)?

 * The relevant sentence in this article is Since the US entry into the war, air conditioning systems had been serviced and the freon refrigerant was replaced by methyl chloride, a flammable gas, due to the wartime shortage of freon. Should that be changed? Is there a source for the statement? Dhtwiki (talk) 10:55, 30 July 2016 (UTC)

Reference #10
Reference number 10, "Recalling Cocoanut Grove". The Boston Globe, is currently listed (correctly) as a dead link, however a cached text-only version of the page is available here: http://cache.boston.com/news/daily/21/archives_cocoanut_052592.htm I'm unsure if it is appropriate to use this as an archive link, since it's technically not an archived version of the page that was originally cited, but rather is that site's own cached version of the page at a different URL. Can anyone advise whether this would be appropriate? Msgerbs (talk) 02:38, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

 * Thank you for finding that. I've reworked the reference URL so that it points to the cached version (the only difference being "cache" instead of "www"), and have not treated that as an archive. Dhtwiki (talk) 19:56, 27 August 2016 (UTC)

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 * Link works and seems useful. Dhtwiki (talk) 21:09, 8 November 2016 (UTC)

Buck Jones death
The article asserts that Buck Jones died in the fire, where he sat. It also claims that it was "erroneous" that he was reported to have died two days later without citation. However, the only source/citation we have on him DOES list him (in a newspaper clipping) as dying two days after as his wife tried to "race to his bedside" only to miss his being alive. There was no citation that he died within the nightclub itself, let alone where. His official date of death is also two days post-fire. I searched and could not find a single source (other than this Wiki listing) that he died inside the building. No official documents exist on his location, therefore, we must refer to the newspaper reporting at the time. Seola (talk) 18:20, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

"After ten minutes"
In the Rescue and Escapees section it says that some survivors were found in a walk on refrigerator and an icebox located in the kitchen, and that "rescuers reached the kitchen after ten minutes". Ten minutes after what? The start of the fire? This paragraph could use a good source and some clarity. Henry Hannon (talk) 00:58, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Ozone Disco fire which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 01:01, 20 October 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cocoanut Grove fire


text: Category:World Heritage Sites in Canada

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title: Category:World Heritage Sites in Canada


text:
Talk:Saddam Hussein/Archive 4

POLL ON HOW WE SHOULD REFERENCE SADDAM HUSSEIN
-> Talk:Saddam Hussein/naming

Why is it locked?

 * Can someone clarify on this discussion page why the article was protected. Was the reason for that the disagreement about the proper name format? (doesn't sound like a big deal to me) Or was it something that is already moved to discussion archive? (If yes, what was that, why was it moved and does the page still needs to be protected?) Paranoid 12:21, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * There was an edit war and User:RickK protected the article. He's following the discussion on the talk page; and I trust that he knows when to best remove the protection. 172 12:28, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, you may trust him, but it is totally unclear to visitors to the talk page what is the status of the discussion. If some parts need to be rewritten, supported with references, etc., people may want to help, but there is no discussion on the talk page (only in archives) of what needs to be fixed. Paranoid 12:55, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

It's locked because of the edit war as to whether the use of "Sadam" is offensive. It's up to Lir. If he wants to participate in this discussion and to abide by the consensus, I'll unlock it, but if he plans on reverting as soon as the page is unprotected, then there's no point in unprotecting it. RickK 19:13, Jun 30, 2004 (UTC)

Stalin
THe omission of Saddam Hussein's fascination with Stalin in the article in inexcusable, IMO. Paranoid 05:12, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * What are your ideas regarding how to best address this matter? 172 05:26, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Tell about when he was introduced to Stalin's history, his books and ideas. Tell about Saddam Hussein's library (the whole collection of Stalin's works that he read a lot). Give some Saddam's quotes about Stalin. Tell about how he adopted Stalin's strategies, methods and even appearance.
 * I didn't have enough sleep today, so I can't write this myself right now. :) Paranoid 06:56, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I'm very familiar with these assertions. When it comes to adding them to the article, I guess that it comes down to how weighty are the most credible references, as we have to be a bit cautious. The bulk of the personal anecdotes that can be added to the article are likely true but unfortunately come our way through rumor, circumstantial evidence, unsubstantiated defectors' testimony, propaganda, speculation, psychological profiling, and the like. Was this library collection discovered while his palaces were raided? (I don't remember hearing anything about this lately, but this may be my ignorance.) At any rate, whenever we get around to working on this matter, I think that a note on Stalin may fit well in the section in which this paragraph appears:

 * Shortly afterwards, he convened an assembly of Ba'ath party leaders on July 22, 1979. He had one of them read out the names of members that Saddam thought could oppose him. These members were labeled "disloyal" and were removed from the room one-by-one to face a firing squad. After the list was read, Saddam congratulated those still seated in the room for their past and future loyalty. [We could then go on to note how many analysts have seen this as coming from Stalin's playbook.] 172 07:16, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I don't think finding sources will be a very big problem, as Saddam was very open about his attitude towards Stalin. Some references can be found in numerous interviews with him, some in interviews with his former friends and subordinates (many of these interviews were friendly and made before the invasion, so they can be trusted to a large extent). There may also be articles by some historians/political scientists, etc. As for the library itself, I don't think it was that big of a deal (for it to be reported). Stalin's (and Lenin's) works weren't in short supply during the Soviet time. I had a complete collection of Lenin's works at home (50 volumes at least), for example. At any rate, I'll try to look into this later today. Paranoid 08:18, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes, I'm aware. I've read many such comparisons by historians and political scientists. But this is a biographical piece, as opposed to a work in comparative history or comparative politics (and this is out of my league, as I am not a professional Middle East specialist). When I was bringing up the need for solid referencing, I was thinking about the biographical stuff, such as him having his own personal library on Stalin. At any rate, I'll also try to look into this later today. 172 08:38, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

After "... We got him!"
Who said "Saddam Hussein was captured Saturday, December 13, at about 8:30 p.m. local in a cellar in the town of Adwar, which is about 15 kilometers south of Tikrit." ? Is this worth adding with attribution?
 * An attribution can't hurt. I'll go ahead and add one. 172 09:54, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

How much oil?
"Tensions with Kuwait" calims that Iraq+Kuwait=20% of World reserves, while The Gulf War claims 20% of Persian Gulf reserves. Which is correct? Rich Farmbrough 12:13, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * The Saddam article is correct. For a reference on Kuwait, see https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ku.html. For one on Iraq, see http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/middle_east/iraq/oil_4-24-03.html. BTW, would it be helpful to add these links to the notes section? 172 01:41, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

It is convenient that the cabal has archived discussion in which other users agreed with my position. The article must bear a prominent notice that there is academic dispute over the best way to refer to this individual. Lirath Q. Pynnor

 * But is there an academic dispute? Is anyone making a serious case that Hussein is his surname? If not, it is only those who falsely make that assumption who may think the use of the short form Saddam is inappropriate. And for those, I agree we should have a note explaining it. We currently have a footnote linked to the name right at the beginning. If this is not prominent enough, I suppose we could move it up. Gzornenplatz 01:33, Jul 2, 2004 (UTC)

Hi Lir, let me know why my edits ((mention which Bush and who he is)) were reverted. Jay 19:06, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Lir once again defies consensus
-> Talk:Saddam Hussein/naming

updated saddam hussein images
Can anyone locate some images taken today that we can use here? Kingturtle 20:02, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * added one. Paranoid 21:24, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Pursuit and capture
I am not sure we should include that image in that section. It is degrading to Saddam Hussein and we do not appear to include images of other people taken during their time in prison (check out Nuremberg Trials, for example, Alfred Rosenberg). I think the image should be removed. Paranoid 20:37, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I disagree (though not strongly). That photo was circulated far and wide and was a major news item, and it seems quite appropriate in the "capture" section.  It's not even horribly unflattering. VV 21:55, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * VeryVerily's right. Of course these pictures belong in this article. After all, this is a biographical entry and Saddam Hussein himself is the one in detention. This is the culmination of his life as a political leader, and these visuals are just as important as, say, the picture of Saddam talking with his Bakr. 172 22:03, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree with you both to some extent. The photo was a major news item (though only because the US military chose to release it and not some other pic - this photo has "psyops" written all over it). But the photo is clearly as POV as an image can be. It tells us "Saddam is a broken man, the mighty US army defeated him, nobody likes him anymore". But this is extremely biased and so is inappropriate. Saddam was not convicted of anything yet. He still remains the last popularly elected leader of Iraq. He is defiant, he probably has enormous control over the process by means of the compromising information on Bush and his cronies. Saddam's tale is far from over and so the image is a misleading piece of official American propaganda. 172, why don't you think that something else was (or will be) a culmination? May be Saddam will force Bush to resign? :) And let me repeat that in other Wikipedia articles such images were not included. If we don't include the photo of Rosenberg's with his brains splattered over the walls (wouldn't that be the culmination of his racially superior Aryan life), there is no reason to include the photo of unshaved Saddam. Paranoid 22:16, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Okay, okay, I should've called it the most recent chapter of his career. :)Anyway, I see your point; we'll need to strike a balance between properly illustrating every chapter of his political life and avoiding U.S. propaganda. I didn't see anything wrong with the pics of him in custody right now, but I'd like the input of other users. 172 22:30, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I fail to see how a picture can be any more degrading than the facts spelled out in the text of the article. Besides, the image is perhaps the most famous single picture of Saddam in existence; if for no other reason, it belongs in the article for the purposes of documenting changes in the perceptions of the man. Any POV that might be inherent in the picture can be negated by an explanation of its full context in the caption or article text. We shouldn't ignore the propangda, but rather defuse and explain it. -- Seth Ilys 22:40, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The picture should be included. Lirath Q. Pynnor

the picture can be complemented by the propaganda portraits of him. I don't see why it's okay to include propaganda portraits on not this photo (which can be considered opposing propaganda). Pictures dont lie. I support adding it back. --Jiang 01:32, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I would appreciate if those who support inclusion of that pic would explain what is so special about Saddam Hussein article that warrants it. Why don't we include screenshots from Paris Hilton video in the article about her? The image was a major news item too as well as the culmination of her life as a celebrity. I'd like an explanation why not include it, but include Saddam's pic. Let me repeat, I am not saying that there are no reasons to include it (there are), I am just saying that doing so would be contrary to Wikipedia practices and NPOV policy. Paranoid 05:28, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Who would have guessed that Saddam would look so dapper and "in command" at his court appearance a few days ago? A shot of him in his pin-striped suit, with no tie, and his new short beard would have so much more significance if it followed the shot of him after his capture. This discussion here has only considered how a photo plays against earlier photos, but now we can see how it can play against subsequent photos. Since we can't predict what photos will be taken in the future we might as well include any shots that have value as cultural artifacts, and allow future contributors to build on those.

Trial material
Why was the trial material deleted just now? --Gary D 01:21, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Because of Lir. See below. VV 01:45, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Naming matter
-> Talk:Saddam Hussein/naming

Please add...
When this dispute is settled, would someone please add this article to Category:US-Iraqi relations? Thanks. --Beland 01:41, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Origin of 'Saddam' name: Conflicting versions
-> Talk:Saddam Hussein/naming

Project Babylon
I think we should mention Project Babylon here somewhere, since this is the man who commissioned it... -- EmperorBMA|話す 07:12, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)

"sometimes spelled"
-> Talk:Saddam Hussein/naming

Gzornenplatz's Compromise
-> Talk:Saddam Hussein/naming

Censorship of trial procedings
Should this information be included in the section on the trial?

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/variety/20040701/va_ne_al/sounds_of_silence_3

68.156.75.40 13:26, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes. And perhaps we need to get ready for a huge article specifically about the trial. Paranoid 14:33, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Photos
Using those images is a possible COPYRIGHT VIOLATION. Stop this madness. --Cantus 05:34, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Cantus and Guanaco:

The photos that are being flagged for "possible copyright vios" are fair use. The original sources of the photos and videos in question are released by/leaked from Saddam-era Iraq (not international media sources like AP, Reuters, BBC, etc.). But I doubt that Saddam's going to sue us, and every single international media outlet that has put them on file. 172 05:33, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Very well then. Add the exact source for EVERY photo flagged with a copyvio and then you can start uncommenting them in the article. --Cantus 05:37, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * This is fair use here. Pics like Saddam/Rana, Saddam/Bakr, etc. were taken by regime photographers. There is no single source that can be found for them. Countless international media outlets have put them on file and have reproduced them countless times. 172 05:42, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Put that info into the Image's pages and then uncomment each in the article. --Cantus 05:46, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Cantus, please, ordering people around is not going to help. This can be best addressed by deliberating on the talk page first, and opening the discussion up to more users. Not only is there no no practical need to make sweeping changes to the article without first deliberating on talk, doing so risks causing confusion and edit wars, which we both do not want. 172 05:52, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Guanaco was the one that started it after he didn't find copyright information. This needs to be clarified. WhisperToMe 06:07, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Okay, for now can we all recognize the pics called into question released by/leaked from the old regime as fair use (Saddam and Rana, Saddam greeting the crowd in Baghdad, Saddam and Bakr, Saddam and Cuellar)? The pics that were recently added (and which I recently removed) seem to be the copyright problems (e.g., the mural of Saddam shooting the rifle). 172 06:23, 8 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Cantus, Some of the recent changes have been good. However, please stop replacing the portrait pic toward the top with "Saddamstoic," which is less recent. Also, the pics that you want added to the 1991-2003 section and the section on secular leadership don't seem to bear a relationship with the coverage of the text in these sections, and make the page too overcrowded with pics, 172 08:07, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * 172, a portrait pic does not need to be a recent one. Saddam stoic.jpg is much more NPOV than your pic of Saddam sitting on a throne. The other pics of Saddam with the flag were not placed arbitrarily, and are not out of context. They were carefully placed in those categories, and even in chronological order. --Cantus 08:17, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * No, I'm trying to remove the picture of Saddam sitting on a throne, which contributes nothing to the section in which you keep on adding it. 172 08:32, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * 172, it is related on how he ruled. He sat on a throne like a king and acted kingly. WhisperToMe 23:37, 9 Jul 2004 (UTC)

172, will you please stop reverting this article? You insist on putting a smiling photo of Saddam on top, instead of the more NPOV photo in military outfit. You changed the very good trial image provided by the DoD with a small screen grab from CNN. This is nonsense! Please stop this. --Cantus 02:45, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Cantus, WhisperToMe: I don't believe a portrait (that is, the opening picture) is the right place to express views on a person.  He may have acted kingly, but that can be said in the article.  The portrait is to show what he looks like; putting up an unflattering portrait is like calling him Saddam "Insane" Hussein.  So, I don't understand how a military uniform portrait is more NPOV.  I similarly resisted attempts to put in a portrait of Bush that made him look like a monkey and one of Pinochet that made him look like "Darth Vader" (as another user put it) - although many have strong feelings on those people as well.  However, I'm too confused by this edit war and what it's even about to get involved right now. V V    04:42, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree with VV that this is silly. Should we replace the image on Dick Cheney with an old one of him speaking for Halliburton because of his facial expression? Guanaco 05:02, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Page protection
-> Talk:Saddam Hussein/naming

Gzornenplatz's compromise
-> Talk:Saddam Hussein/naming

Image
172 and I cannot agree on which images to use for the Intro and Trial sections. Your input in necessary.

What is the better image for the intro:

1) This image:

Votes:
 * 1) Cantus 01:59, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC) - I didn't want this to become a poll, really.
 * 2) Quadell (talk) 12:14, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC) - This isn't a strong opinion, but I think this one is marginally better.
 * 3) While it doesn't belong in the intro -- it does belong in the article. Lirath Q. Pynnor

Brief Arguments Against: 2) Or this image:
 * Saddam is not orange. (Lir)

Votes:
 * 1) Lirath Q. Pynnor
 * 2) WhisperToMe
 * 3) Gzornenplatz
 * 4) Guanaco 04:38, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Brief Arguments Against: What is the better image for the Trial section:
 * He looks goofy. --Cantus 05:12, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

1) This image released by the DoD to the press:

Votes: 2) Or this screengrab provided by CNN:
 * 1) Lirath Q. Pynnor
 * 2) Cantus 01:59, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) WhisperToMe
 * 4) Gzornenplatz
 * 5) Guanaco 04:35, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC) The image use policy states that we should go with the free image.

--Cantus 00:52, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * 1) Quadell (talk) 12:14, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC) He looks less goofy.

Discussion:

I think that both of the top images are good. I would place 172's at the top, and Cantus' in the "Gulf War" section.

172 himself doesn't agree with a lot of pictures being used in the first place, but I think this page needs just a bit more pics. As for the bottom ones, I would choose Cantus' simply because it is less grainy. WhisperToMe 01:23, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * We do not want to be adding pics gratuitously. Nine right now is already more than enough. Nor is my position limiting it to eight or nine really extreme. A while ago Adam Carr, e.g., wanted no more than two. Still, at least messing around with this article diverts Cantus' attention from removing the clitoris image over and over again. 172 01:34, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * So full of rage aren't you? But I digress, I believe the first image fits the intro better, as it is more pleasant to the eye, and much more portrait-like. --Cantus 01:59, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * The issue is which image is more up-to-date and appropriate for a biographical entry, not which image you find more "pleasing to the eye." At any rate, Saddam apparently stopped wearing his green military fatigues in public in the late 1990s. He appeared in public in Western business suits until the 2003 Iraq War, when he gave a couple of addresses on Iraqi state TV and greeted the cheering crowds in Baghdad as coalition troops were closing in on the city. According to some reports, he chose to start wearing Western suits when Kofi Annan told him that it would make him appear more like a statesman during his trip to Baghdad as a mediator in 1998. The current portrait pic was taken during his last couple of years in power, is representative of the post-First Gulf War era of his regime, and is a more appropriate portrait for a biographical entry. If this picture is replaced, it should be replaced by a more recent one, not an even more outdated one. 172 02:26, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * You are completely wrong on this one. There is NO need to put the most recent picture of person as a portrait. See entries for Saddam at Britannica and Encarta ; none of the pictures there are recent, yet the articles are very much up to date. WhisperToMe also makes a good point below. I believe the picture of him in military outfit is FAR more REPRESENTATIVE of who he was in Iraq for more than 20 years, than your recent washed-out Westernized version. --Cantus 03:37, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * If we get "real real recent", we would have pics of people as old men at the top of the article. I think, however, that the pic 172 is pushing should be at the top while the pic Cantus is pushing should be in the Gulf War section, as that uniform became well known during the Gulf War. WhisperToMe 02:37, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * The Gulf War section already has the picture of him meeting with Cuellar, and he is wearing the green military fatigues in that picture. 172 03:19, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What is meant by "personally modified" -- did he personally alter the flag, or did he merely order someone else to do so? Lirath Q. Pynnor

 * He made a capricious decision, as he so often did, to have the Arabic for "God is great" inserted into the flag (despite the fact that he had been very secular for decades) in order to drum up support among Muslims against the U.S. during the first Gulf War (in 1991). He ordered it modified. Quadell (talk) 12:14, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)

For the trial image, we should use the DoD one, since it is presumably public domain. Snowspinner 02:17, Jul 11, 2004 (UTC)

July 2004 protection
Is there an ETA on unprotection? There's been little discussion here. --Golbez 07:28, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)

Latest protection
This article was protected by User:WhisperToMe just a few minutes ago. Why? I have no idea. There was no ongoing edit war AT ALL. Maybe he saw my BIG COMMENTS in the Summary and thought there was an edit war going on. Too bad he didn't bother to actually check the article history before wrongly protecting the article. --Cantus 23:00, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * It seemed like one to me. Calm down and work things out here first. WhisperToMe 23:11, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * There was absolutely no edit war going on at the moment. Things have already been worked out. See above Talk. Keep in mind this article was protected the last 5 days. Please unprotect. Thanks. --Cantus 23:18, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Cantus, unlike the photos of Saddam meeting with Cuellar and his Baghdad walkabout during the 2003 Gulf War-- two important events that warrant mentioning in a biographical entry about Saddam, the image you find so "pleasing to the eye" contributes nothing to the article. Your capition states that he's wearing his familar green military fatigues, but this is the case regarding several of the photos already placed in the article. Please, give it a rest. 172 23:49, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Do you realize the George W. Bush article has 17 (!) images and a lot are not directly related to the surrounding text? Why can't we have one not-completely-explicitly-directly-related-to-the-surrounding-text image without you immediately removing it? --Cantus 02:09, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Problems with one article don't require us to create problems here. 172 04:23, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Oh, that's a really lame argument. I expected better from you. --Cantus 06:22, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I think the picture should stay, unline in paper encyclopedias, images are easy to add and pleasing to the eye. They also make the text block smaller and thus easier to read. Saddam is on the photo, it should stay. -- Solitude 09:03, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hussein was not an army officer
I don't object to the inclusion of the photo; however, I do believe that the first image should be of Hussein wearing civilian attire -- if the first image shows a military uniform, that gives the inappropriate impression that he was primarily a military officer. Showing him in that manner, would be akin to Bush's first photo showing him in his air force uniform. Lirath Q. Pynnor

Safe to unprotect now
The only reason this page was protected was because I insisted on adding a picture and 172 insisted on removing it.

Well, I have given up on readding the image, so it can be unprotected now.

Sigh.

--Cantus 08:03, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * (Speaking as the one who protected the page) - the current edit war was only the last in a long line of edit wars on this page. I'm really tired of seeing this page constantly the subject of an edit war, so I'm going to leave it protected until *all* the issues are sorted out here. →Raul654 08:14, Jul 19, 2004 (UTC)

 * Funny you say that, because the image issue was *the* last issue left and is now gone. --Cantus 08:17, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I wish there could be a discussion of substantive matters for once. Earlier today, for example, I rewrote much of an entire section, but no one seems to comment (or seems to care), but trivialities like pictures and intros are the sources of edit wars. I mean, I wrote almost the entire article, and hardly anyone seems to be concerned with that, but almost everyone is preoccupied about a single footnote and what images are used where. 172 08:26, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I can't believe it. You now want people to revert your text additions? You aren't happy until you get involved in a good ideological war, are you? Crazy. Be GREATFUL people has not reverted your text additions. That means they are WELCOMED. Sheesh. --Cantus 08:34, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * No, I said I wanted a substantive discussion of the article. I was making an interesting observation that the pictures seem to matter more than the text, that's all. The text seems to be going unnoticed while the pictures get all the attention. 172 08:37, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, well, I see you've been quite busy over at Fidel Castro. 50 reverts nonstop over one word in a period of 2 hours. I'm speechless. --Cantus 08:43, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I was even busier on History of post-Soviet Russia last week, where I could rewrite and improve an entire article in peace without having to deal with nonsense. 172 08:45, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * 172...if you want to discuss your writing so bad, start at the beginning -- New Imperialism...we can get to post-soviet Russia in due time. Lirath Q. Pynnor

 * BTW, good work on consolidating Images of Saddam Hussein. Perhaps we can start working on expanding the captions there. 172 08:39, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Regarding birthdate footnote
Seems like good info, but where then did the date of Apr. 28 1937 come from? I presume the date was remembered by the family even if not officially recorded, or otherwise chosen at random? Also, it might be a good idea to add a similar note to al-Bakr's article, since his birthdate actually is given as July 1. Everyking 10:03, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Addition and deletion of Saddam's health scam
172 removed my addition of the following:

 * Conflicting reports of Hussein's failing health circulated in different media during the last week of July 2004. Al Jazeera, The Times of India, and The Mirror report that he has suffered a stroke and that the International Red Cross has stated he had a brain scan to discover how badly the stroke affected Hussein. More recent reports indicate that a possible prostate problem requiring X-rays was exaggerated. CBC in Canada reports that Muin Kassis, spokesperson for the Internation Red Cross, said on July 29th that there is no evidence to support claims of Hussein's failing health.

172's summary comment was "I don't know if this article should be a dumping ground for every news story that comes out in the tabloid media about Saddam Hussein". I added this after removing an anon's link to the hoax being presented in many middle eastern press. I found the hoax and its truth to be relevent to the trial as a means of gaining sympathy. It seemed like a ploy by supporters to get public view on his side.

I really don't feel any need to fight for the paragraph I created but wanted to record this to prevent the anon user from continuing to create links to the hoax press releases. - Tεx  τ  urε  18:33, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I don't know if we should go into the subject of his health as of yet. As of now, we're still dealing with rumor, speculation, and conjecture. We must be careful to keep this already lengthy article biographical, focused broadly on his entire career, as opposed to a bulletin board of every recent news story that comes out about Saddam Hussein. (BTW, perhaps there can be an article along the lines of "news about Saddam Hussein." Just an idea.) 172 18:39, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * However you guys work it out, this items seems sufficiently noteworthy to be included somewhere. --Gary D 18:45, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Perhaps on the page about the trial, to be kept (if found to be ture and significant) or later deleted (if found to be false or minor)? Andy Mabbett 18:52, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Saddam Hussein/Archive 4


text:
Talk:Operation Orient Express

why was this deleted? I've restored it. Kingturtle 02:05, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Operation Orient Express


text:
User:ValcilonSilva~enwiki

Born in Manhuaçu, Minas Gerais Lives in Fortaleza, Ceará.

AKA Valker. www.genetica.org.br's Webmaster.

Interests: CMS, XOOPS, PHP, Genetics, E-learning.

--Valker 02:08, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

title: User:ValcilonSilva~enwiki


text:
The Preppie Murder

The Preppie Murder is an American television film directed by John Herzfeld, written by Herzfeld and Irv Roud, and starring William Baldwin as Robert Chambers and Lara Flynn Boyle as Jennifer Levin. The film aired on ABC in 1989. It was based on the events of a murder committed by Robert Chambers, nicknamed the "Preppie Killer". The film co-stars Danny Aiello, Joanna Kerns, and William Devane.

Plot
The film reenacts Robert Chambers' murder of Jennifer Levin. Robert Chambers, a man who attended prep schools on a scholarship, kills Jennifer Levin, who herself was of a privileged background after they leave a trendy Manhattan bar together. When Detective Mike Sheehan arrests him, Chambers claims that he killed her in self-defense after rough sex got out of hand. In the ensuing trial, Chambers' attorney, Jack Litman, attacks Levin's personal history. Chambers eventually pleads guilty to a lesser charge of manslaughter.

Cast

 * Danny Aiello as Detective Mike Sheehan
 * William Baldwin as Robert Chambers
 * Joanna Kerns as Linda Fairstein
 * Lara Flynn Boyle as Jennifer Levin
 * Dorothy Fielding as Phyllis Chambers
 * James Handy as Detective Joe Brady Quinn
 * William Devane as Jack Litman

Production
The film was shot mostly in Los Angeles, but some exterior shots took place in New York City. Mike Sheehan, who investigated the case, served as a consultant. Jennifer Levin's parents declined involvement; her father called it "exploitative". Linda Fairstein and Jack Litman also declined involvement. Director John Herzfeld wanted to tell Jennifer Levin's story and "clear a little of the mud off her".

Release
The Preppie Murder aired September 24, 1989, on ABC. It was released on home video in November 1993.

Reception
Howard Rosenberg of the Los Angeles Times called it "vexing, powerful and heartbreaking—yet strangely enigmatic". John Leonard of New York called it "pointless" and compared it negatively to Linda Wolfe's book, Wasted: The Preppie Murder. John J. O'Connor of The New York Times wrote that the film's denunciation of the press as exploitative was ironic, as it "merely warms up the old headlines it pretends to abhor."

title: The Preppie Murder


text:
Talk:Machine understanding

from VFD

Is this legit? Original research? This is really NOT my field of expertise but from googling, it seems a moderatly used term, although not as a replacement for the term "artificial intelligence", but as a subtopic of it. Rhymeless 02:13, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I didn't see a VfD tag on this, so I made it into a redirect. If anyone wants to change it back for discussion, please feel free. - Lucky 6.9 02:39, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * redirect sounds reasonable to me. --Ianb 06:29, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * redirect sounds reasonable to me as well. google search finds Machine Understanding Research Group at MIT and some other university links (3,160 hits total, but not all relevant). Certainly legit, not sure if it merits its own article but redirect is certainly fine. Andris 12:52, Aug 9, 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion

title: Talk:Machine understanding


text:
Watson

Watson may refer to:

People

 * Watson (surname)
 * Watson (given name)

Fictional characters

 * Dr. Watson, a character in Sherlock Holmes stories
 * Mary Jane Watson, a Spider-Man character
 * Esme Watson, a character in Australian television program A Country Practice

Computing

 * Watson (computer), an IBM supercomputer which won the game show Jeopardy!
 * Dr. Watson (debugger), the internal debugger for the Windows platform
 * Intellext Watson, an application for the Windows platform
 * Karelia Watson, an application for the Macintosh platform

Companies

 * Watson Pharmaceuticals, former name of the pharmaceutical company Actavis
 * A.S. Watson Group, retail division of Hutchison Whampoa
 * Thomas J. Watson Research Center, IBM research center
 * Watson Systems, maker of shopping trolleys
 * A. J. Watson, IndyCar roadster chassis constructor
 * Watsons Water, a bottled water company in Hong Kong

Places
Antarctica
 * Watson Peninsula, South Orkney Islands

Australia
 * Watson, Australian Capital Territory
 * Division of Watson, an electoral district of the Australian House of Representatives
 * Watson, South Australia, a stop on the Trans-Australian Railway
 * Watson Island (Queensland), an island in Howick Group National Park, Queensland, Australia

Canada
 * Watson, Saskatchewan
 * Watson Island (British Columbia), an island in the Queen Charlotte Strait in British Columbia, Canada
 * Watson Lake, Yukon

United States
 * Watson, Alabama
 * Watson, Arkansas
 * Watson Island, a neighborhood in Miami, Florida
 * Watson, Illinois
 * Watson, Indiana
 * Watson, Iowa
 * Watson, Louisiana
 * Watson, Minnesota
 * Watson, Missouri
 * Watson, New York
 * Watson, Ohio
 * Watson, Oklahoma
 * Watson, Virginia
 * Watson, West Virginia
 * Watson House (Chincoteague Island, Virginia)
 * Watson Township (disambiguation)

Other

 * Watson (musician), an American singer and songwriter
 * Clan Watson, a Scottish clan
 * Jeannette K. Watson Fellowship, internship grant
 * Thomas J. Watson Fellowship, travel grant
 * The Watson Twins, an indie country-rock group
 * George Watson's College, a school in Edinburgh, Scotland
 * USS Watson (DD-482), a proposed United States Navy destroyer canceled in 1946
 * Watson (crater), a lunar impact crater on the far side of the Moon
 * Watson (film), a 2019 documentary film

title: Watson


text:
Balthus

Balthasar Klossowski de Rola (February 29, 1908 – February 18, 2001), known as Balthus, was a Polish-French modern artist. He is known for his erotically charged images of pubescent girls, but also for the refined, dreamlike quality of his imagery.

Throughout his career, Balthus rejected the usual conventions of the art world. He insisted that his paintings should be seen and not read about, and he resisted attempts to build a biographical profile. Nevertheless, towards the end of his life he took part in a series of dialogues with the neurobiologist Semir Zeki, conducted at his chalet at Rossinière, Switzerland and at the Palazzo Farnese (French Embassy) in Rome. They were published in 1995 under the title La Qûete de l'essentiel, and in them he gives some of his views on art, painting and some other painters.

Early years
Balthus was born in Paris, in 1908, to Prussian expatriate parents. His given name was Balthasar Klossowski – his sobriquet "Balthus" was based on his childhood nickname, alternately spelled Baltus, Baltusz, Balthusz or Balthus.

His father, Erich Klossowski, was an art historian who wrote a noted monograph on Honoré Daumier. Erich grew up in the town of Ragnit in East Prussia, now part of Russia but then in the German Empire. Unlike his brother or parents, Balthus claimed that he belonged to the former Polish petty nobility (the drobna szlachta) and his family bore the Rola coat of arms. Balthus later fancifully elaborated on his family background, using the surname "Klossowski de Rola," and adding the term "count" to this title, which no one in his family's documented history had ever done. Balthus even had the Rola arms embroidered onto many of his kimono, in the style of a Japanese.

Balthus's mother Elisabeth Dorothée Spiro Klossowska (known as Baladine Klossowska) was descended from Lithuanian Jews who had emigrated to East Prussia. In the catalogue of the Metropolitan Museum of Art's 1984 Balthus exhibition, she was described as the daughter of a cantor from Korelitz in Novogrudok district in the Russian Empire. However, Balthus told his biographer Nicholas Fox Weber that this was erroneous, and that his mother came "apparently from a Protestant family in the south of France". But according to Weber, this was a confabulation on Balthus's part. In fact, Balthus would often embroider upon his story of his mother's ancestry, saying that she was also related to the Romanovs and the Narischkins, powerful aristocratic families of Russia. In another confabulatory twist, Weber reports that Baladine's lover, the poet Rainer Maria Rilke, had said that the Spiros were descended from one of the richest families of Sephardic Jews, that is that they were of Spanish, not Eastern European origin. Weber doubted this story too, since Balthus's son Fumio, born in the late 1960s, had Tay–Sachs disease, a genetic disorder commonly associated with Eastern European Jews.

Balthus's older brother Pierre Klossowski (1905–2001) became a noted writer and philosopher.

The Klossowski children grew up in an art-world environment, with frequent visits to their household by famous artists and writers, including Rilke, André Gide (who mentored Pierre), and Jean Cocteau (who would depict the family in scenes of his 1929 novel Les Enfants Terribles). The artists Maurice Denis and Pierre Bonnard were also visitors. The children had a Scottish nanny, and Balthus would later say that his first language was English, although his parents spoke German to one another.

Overall, Balthus had an idyllic memory of these early childhood years, which were disrupted when, shortly after the First World War began in 1914, the family were forced to leave Paris in order to avoid deportation due to their German citizenship. They settled first in Switzerland, later in Berlin.

In 1917 his parents separated, and his mother moved with the two boys to Geneva. They lived in a modest flat at 11, rue Pré-Jérôme, a comfortable neighborhood. About a year later his mother became the lover of Rilke. Rilke was very impressed with the young "Baltusz"'s artistic talent, and helped him to publish his first work in 1921, at the age of 13. This was a wordless novel titled Mitsou which included forty drawings by Balthus and a preface by Rilke. The comic-book-style pictures depict the story of a young boy who loses his beloved cat. The themes of the story foreshadowed Balthus's lifelong fascination with cats, along with a feeling of loss or disappearance.

At Christmas of 1921, Baladine, financially destitute, moved to Berlin with her children in order to live with her brother.

Young adulthood
In 1926 Balthus visited Florence, where he copied many frescos by the Renaissance master Piero della Francesca. This inspired an early ambitious work of his: the tempera wall paintings of the Protestant church of the Swiss village of Beatenberg which he executed in 1927.

From 1930 to 1931 Balthus served in the French army in Morocco. He was drafted into the Moroccan infantry in Kenitra and Fes, worked as a secretary, and sketched his painting La Caserne (1933).

In 1933 he moved to Paris, taking a studio in the Rue de Furstemberg. Later he would move to another studio at the nearby Cour de Rohan. Balthus showed no interest in modernist styles such as Cubism. His paintings were realistic but introverted, in the manner of the second generation of Surrealist painters such as Salvador Dalí, who often used realistic techniques to depict psychological motifs or dream images. Balthus often depicted pubescent girls in erotic and voyeuristic poses. One of the most notorious works from his first exhibition in Paris was The Guitar Lesson (1934), which caused controversy due to its sadistic and sexually explicit imagery. It depicts a young girl arched on her back over the lap of her female teacher, whose hands are positioned on the girl as if to play her like a guitar: one hand near her exposed vulva, and the other hand grasping her hair. Other works from the same exhibition included The Street (1933), Cathy Dressing (1933) and Alice (1933).

Early on his work was admired by writers and fellow painters, especially by André Breton and Pablo Picasso. His circle of friends in Paris included the novelists Pierre Jean Jouve, Antoine de Saint-Exupéry, Joseph Breitbach, Pierre Leyris, Henri Michaux, Michel Leiris and René Char, the photographer Man Ray, the playwright and actor Antonin Artaud, and the painters André Derain, Joan Miró and Alberto Giacometti (one of the most faithful of his friends). In 1948, another friend, Albert Camus, asked him to design the sets and costumes for his play L'État de Siège (The State of Siege, directed by Jean-Louis Barrault). Balthus also designed the sets and costumes for Artaud's adaptation for Percy Bysshe Shelley's The Cenci (1935), Ugo Betti's Delitto all'isola delle capre (Crime on Goat-Island, 1953) and Barrault's adaptation of Julius Caesar (1959–1960).

In 1937 he married Antoinette de Watteville, who was from an influential aristocratic family from Bern. He had met her as early as 1924, and she was the model for the aforementioned Cathy Dressing and for a series of portraits. Balthus had two children from this marriage, Stanislas (born 1942) and Thaddeus Klossowski (born 1944), who recently published books on their father, including the letters by their parents. Stanislas, known as "Stash", became a figure in swinging London and Paris in the 1960s.

Champrovent to Chassy
In 1940, with the invasion of France by German forces, Balthus fled with his wife Antoinette to Savoy to a farm in Champrovent near Aix-les-Bains, where he began work on two major paintings: Landscape near Champrovent (1942–1945) and The Living Room (1942). In 1942, he escaped from Occupied France to Switzerland, first to Bern and in 1945 to Geneva, where he became a friend of the publisher Albert Skira as well as the writer and member of the French Resistance, André Malraux. Balthus returned to France in 1946 and a year later traveled with André Masson to Southern France, meeting figures such as Picasso and Jacques Lacan, who eventually became a collector of his work. With Adolphe Mouron Cassandre in 1950, Balthus designed stage decor for a production of Mozart's opera Così fan tutte in Aix-en-Provence. Three years later he moved into the Chateau de Chassy in the Morvan, living with his step-niece Frédérique Tison and finishing his large-scale masterpieces La Chambre (The Room 1952, possibly influenced by Pierre Klossowski's novels) and Le Passage du Commerce Saint-André (1954).

Later years
As international fame grew with exhibitions in the gallery of Pierre Matisse (1938) and the Museum of Modern Art (1956) in New York City, he cultivated the image of himself as an enigma. In 1964, he moved to Rome where he presided over the Villa de Medici as director (appointed by the French Minister of Culture André Malraux) of the French Academy in Rome. He became a friend of the filmmaker Federico Fellini and the painter Renato Guttuso. In 1977, he moved to Rossinière, Switzerland. That he had a second, Japanese wife Setsuko Ideta whom he married in 1967 and was thirty-five years his junior, simply added to the air of mystery around him (he met her in Japan, during a diplomatic mission also initiated by Malraux). A son, Fumio, was born in 1968 but died two years later.

The photographers and friends Henri Cartier-Bresson and Martine Franck (Cartier-Bresson's wife) both portrayed the painter and his wife and their daughter Harumi (born 1973) in his Grand Chalet in Rossinière in 1999.

Balthus was one of the few living artists to be represented in the Louvre, when his painting The Children (1937) was acquired from the private collection of Pablo Picasso.

He co-authored a book of dialogues with the neurobiologist Semir Zeki, entitled La Quête de l'essentiel.

He died in Rossinière, Switzerland. Prime ministers and rock stars alike attended his funeral. Bono, lead singer of U2, sang for the hundreds of mourners at the funeral, including the President of France, the Prince Sadruddhin Aga Khan, supermodel Elle Macpherson, and Cartier-Bresson.

Style and themes
Balthus's style is primarily classical. His work shows numerous influences, including the writings of Emily Brontë, the writings and photography of Lewis Carroll, and the paintings of Masaccio, Piero della Francesca, Simone Martini, Poussin, Jean-Étienne Liotard, Joseph Reinhart, Géricault, Ingres, Goya, Jean-Baptiste-Camille Corot, Courbet, Edgar Degas, Félix Vallotton and Paul Cézanne. Although his technique and compositions were inspired by pre-Renaissance painters, there also are eerie intimations of contemporary surrealists like de Chirico. Painting the figure at a time when figurative art was largely ignored, he is widely recognised as an important 20th-century artist.

Many of his paintings show young girls in an erotic context. Balthus insisted that his work was not erotic but that it recognized the discomforting facts of children's sexuality. In 2013, Balthus's paintings of adolescent girls were described by Roberta Smith in The New York Times as both "alluring and disturbing".

Influence and legacy
His work has influenced several contemporary artists, notably Duane Michals and Émile Chambon. He has also influenced the filmmaker Jacques Rivette of the French New Wave, whose film Hurlevent (1985) was inspired by Balthus's drawings made at the beginning of the 1930s: "Seeing as he's a bit of an eccentric and all that, I am very fond of Balthus (...) I was struck by the fact that Balthus enormously simplified the costumes and stripped away the imagery trappings (...)".

His widow, Setsuko Klossowska de Rola, heads the Fonds Balthus, the archives of the painter, which is accessible to scholars as a long term deposit in the Museum of Fine Arts in Lausanne.

A reproduction of Balthus's Girl at a Window (a painting from 1957) prominently appears in François Truffaut's film Domicile Conjugal (Bed and Board, 1970). The two principal characters, Antoine Doinel (Jean-Pierre Léaud) and his wife Christine (Claude Jade), are arguing. Christine takes down from the wall a small drawing of about 25×25 cm and gives it to her husband: Christine: "Here, take the small Balthus." Antoine: "Ah, the small Balthus. I offered it to you, it's yours, keep it."

During December 2017, a public petition was circulated requesting that Balthus's painting Thérèse Dreaming be removed from display at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York due to its alleged explicit content and suggestive portrayal. Philip Kennicott, writing for The Washington Post on 5 December 2017, in an article titled "This painting might be sexually disturbing. But that's no reason to take it out of a museum", summarized the museum's long-standing position against censorship. The painting had previously been on display at the Museum Ludwig in Cologne, Germany in 2007 without incident.

In popular culture

 * South African novelist Christopher Hope wrote My Chocolate Redeemer around a painting by Balthus, The Golden Days (1944), which appears on the book jacket.
 * Stephen Dobyns's book The Balthus Poems (Atheneum, 1982) describes individual paintings by Balthus in 32 narrative poems.
 * Harold Budd's 1988 album The White Arcades includes a track titled "Balthus Bemused by Color".
 * Robert Dassanowsky's book Telegrams from the Metropole: Selected Poems 1980–1998 includes "The Balthus Poem".
 * Thomas Harris's book Hannibal (1999, Delacorte Press) says that the character Hannibal Lecter, a psychiatrist, cannibal, and genius, is Balthus's cousin.
 * William Minor's book The Balthus Poems (Coracle, 2018) is a minimalist, absurdist approach to his life and work.
 * Joyce Carol Oates's 2018 book Beautiful Days: Stories contains the story "Les beaux jours," which contains lyrical descriptions of Balthus's paintings and imagines the life of an eleven-year-old model of Balthus.
 * Maya Hawke's 2022 single "Thérèse" from her second studio album Moss is inspired by Balthus's painting entitled "Thérèse Dreaming".
 * The UK print edition of Philip Pullman's short work The Collectors features Portrait de la jeune fille en costume d'amazone (1932) by Balthus as a cover image and inside print. The UK adult cover of Northern Lights (Pullman novel) also features another work by Balthus, Girl in Green and Red (1944).

Exhibitions
Balthus held his first exhibition at Galerie Pierre, Paris, in 1934. Following the ensuing scandal, he exhibited at the Pierre Matisse Gallery, New York, from 1938 to 1977, although he never visited the United States. Balthus's first major museum exhibition was at the Museum of Modern Art in 1956. Other museum exhibitions of note include Musée des Arts Decoratifs, Paris (1966); Tate Gallery, London (1968); La Biennale di Venezia (1980); Museum of Contemporary Art, Chicago (1980); Musée cantonal des beaux-arts de Lausanne (1993); Musée d'Art Moderne de la Ville de Paris (1984, traveled to Metropolitan Museum, Kyoto); Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York (1984); and Palazzo Grassi, Venice (2001). "Balthus: Cats and Girls: Paintings and Provocations" at the Metropolitan Museum of Art (September 25, 2013 – January 12, 2014) was the first U.S. museum survey of the artist's work in 30 years. A major retrospective overseen by the artist's wife, Ideta Setsuko, was held in 2014 at the Tokyo Metropolitan Art Museum. An exhibition of Polaroid photographs taken by Balthus at the Museum Folkwang in Essen, Germany, was canceled over accusations of pedophilia. The German newspaper Die Zeit called the images, which depict a model named Anna from ages eight to 16, “documents of pedophile greed.”

Since then, despite attempts, no planned exhibition of Balthus’s work was censored or cancelled for such allegations.

Films on Balthus

 * Damian Pettigrew, Balthus Through the Looking Glass (72', Super 16, PLANETE/CNC/PROCIREP, 1996). Documentary on and with Balthus filmed at work in his studio and in conversation at his Rossinière chalet. Shot over a 12-month period in Switzerland, Italy, France and the Moors of England.

title: Balthus


text:
Ben Kerr

Ben Kerr (April 27 1930 – June 17, 2005) was a Canadian author, broadcaster, musician and perennial candidate, who was most famous as one of Toronto, Ontario's quirky street performers.

Background
Kerr was born April 27 1930 in Yarmouth, Nova Scotia to Benjamin Kerr, a professional golfer, and Mildred Audrey Torrance, a stenographer, and spent fifteen years in the Royal Canadian Air Force before settling in Toronto. In the 1960s, Kerr frequently played guitar in folk clubs in Toronto's Yorkville district working alongside groups such as Steppenwolf, the Mynah Birds, Rick James, Gordon Lightfoot and Joni Mitchell, and wrote songs for the then unknown Neil Young.

In 1969, he had a life changing experience when he gave up his three pack a day smoking habit and started taking a daily cayenne pepper cocktail. He credited the concoction with turning his health around and saving his life. He later wrote the book "The Cayenne Pepper Does it All" to document this experience.

Kerr was considered a "major promoter for Canadian Country Music artists" by the 1970's. In 1971, Kerr wrote "Parliament Hill" for Angus Walker who he was promoting at the time. "Parliament Hill" peaked at number 18 on RPM Country 50 rankings. On June 3, 1973, a group of twelve entertainers and promoters met at The Horseshoe Tavern, in Toronto, Ontario at formed the original board of directors for the Canadian Country Music Association. This group included Brent Williams, notable country and bluegrass entertainer, Jury Krytiuk, president of Boot Records, Bod Dalton, a promotor, Sean Eyre, DJ Lindsay, radio personality Harold Moon who worked for BMI Records, Jack Starr of The Horseshoe Tavern, Barry Haugen of RCA Records, Vic Folliott of Brantford Radio, Mary Butterill of CAPAC Publishing and Kerr. Kerr released "Shoes Keep on Walking" in the fall of 1973 and peaked at number 82 on RPM Magazine's ranking of country music songs.

For a time, Kerr was an executive at the Toronto Harbour Commission. A fervent anti-smoking crusader, he quit the job in a rage in 1981 when a co-worker blew smoke in his face. He wrote a song, "Fire on One End, a Fool on the Other", about the incident. This inspired him to run from Toronto to Los Angeles to promote a smoking ban in offices. The run took him six months. Also in 1981, Kerr released "Distilled Water", a song that peaked at number 27 on RPM Magazine's top 30 Canadian content list and number 64 on RPM Magazine's Top 75 Country Singles He was also in the 1982 Trees music video "Shock of the New", appearing as a guy with an oxygen mask and a shirt promoting clean air in offices. In 1987, he played a dead man in the basement of Casa Loma in B.D. Benedikt's Beyond the 7th Door.

Post-retirement
Kerr supported himself as a busker for the remainder of his life, singing with a karaoke machine in front of the Hudson's Bay department store at the corner of Yonge and Bloor streets. He was often voted "favourite street performer" in Now Magazine's annual Toronto survey, and it is rumoured that Kerr was once offered a recording contract with Sub Pop Records. He continued to appear frequently on radio and television as an advocate for the health benefits of cayenne pepper, and was the author of The Cayenne Pepper Cocktail Does it All.

As well, he was a perennial fringe candidate who ran in every Toronto mayoral election from 1985 until 2003, the last municipal election held before his death. In 1997, he placed fourth behind Mel Lastman, Barbara Hall and Don Andrews. In the 2000 election, he ran on a platform of waterfront renewal, backed by the self-penned campaign song "Fringe Candidate".

Ben Kerr died on June 17, 2005, at his home on Jones Avenue in Toronto, at the age of 75. In 2007, Toronto City Council approved a motion to name a laneway near the corner of Danforth and Jones in Kerr's honour. Ben Kerr Lane was officially named on May 25, 2008.

title: Ben Kerr


text:
Alexander Bell

Alexander, Alex or Lex Bell may refer to:

People

 * Alexander Bell (California merchant) (1801–1871), member of the Los Angeles Common Council
 * Alexander Montgomerie Bell (1806–1866), Scottish writer on law
 * Alexander Melville Bell (1819–1905), Scottish-American philologist, researcher, teacher, and father of Alexander Graham Bell
 * Alexander Graham Bell (1847–1922), Scottish-Canadian scientist, engineer, teacher and inventor
 * Alexander Bell (Victorian politician) (1850–1931), Australian politician
 * Alexander Dunlop Bell (1873–1937), Chairman of the Shanghai Municipal Council, 1932–1934
 * Alexander Bell (sportsman) (1915–1956), Argentine born English cricketer and rugby union player
 * Alexander F. Bell (1915–1986), American football player for the Detroit Lions and head college football coach at Villanova University
 * Alex Bell (1882–1934), Scottish footballer (Manchester United, Blackburn Rovers, Scotland)
 * Alex Bell (footballer, born 1931), Scottish footballer (Partick Thistle, Exeter City, Grimsby Town)
 * Alex Bell (athlete) (born 1992), British athlete
 * Lex Bell (Alexander James Douglas Bell, born 1945), Australian politician
 * Sandy Bell (Alexander John Bell, 1906–1985), South African cricketer

Characters

 * Alex Bell (Hollyoaks), a character in the British soap opera Hollyoaks

title: Alexander Bell


text:
User talk:Stimulac

I see you are projecting your interests on other users. I suggest you go play elsewhere. Isomorphic 02:24, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Editing other users' User pages is forbidden and will get you blocked from editing. RickK 04:56, Aug 9, 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Stimulac


text:
Talk:Turkish delight

India
I think they make this in India also. I've been to Indian stores and seem to also make and eat this, or something extremely similar. Dont know the name, But I have seen it in the Indian stores. In Indian/ south Asian cultures they seem to have a lot of deserts and small squares and stuff stuff like this. could this have traveled to India from the Mougals out of Persia and Afghanistan? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.10.167.113 (talk) 00:43, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

 * You mean mithai? watermelon66 (talk) 00:06, 5 March 2024 (UTC)

Turkish_Delight_(Lokum)
The page Turkish_Delight_(Lokum) looks like it should link here. At the moment it just includes some of the info on this page, formatted badly.
 * Done. TheMightyQuill 17:42, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Exellent - (I seemed to have forgotten my username hehe :) ) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 202.173.128.90 (talk) 23:41, 21 December 2006 (UTC).

Turkish origin city of Afyonkarahisar — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.160.18.212 (talk) 21:15, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Hexagonal packaging
Does anyone know if the hexagonal packaging in which Turkish Delight is frequently sold (in Ireland the UK at any rate) is traditional? I've seen many different brands packaged in this way, so presumably it must have some relevance or significance. DublinDilettante 19:55, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I believe it is only a export product packaging tradition, it is not common in Turkey.

"Etymological forms"
Themightyquill removed the words "rahat lokum, or rahat al-hulkum" from the enumeration of forms in the opening of the article, saying "Etymological forms don't need to be in the first sentence. For simplicity and clairity, let's leave them out until later." He is right that this probably helps with simplicity and clarity, but isn't Turkish Delight sometimes actually sold under those names? --Iustinus 17:51, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Being a Turkish 'turkish delight' lover, I haven't seen any of them being sold under the names "rahat lokum, or rahat al-hulkum" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.214.237.196 (talk) 14:32, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

Flavours section
What's the point of this as it stands? A bald list of flavours with no indication as to how common they are, what brands they're in, etc. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.153.109.183 (talk) 22:29, 2 April 2007 (UTC).

Persian origin
In the sentence below assert that the lokum's origin is Persia.

 * Reay Tannahill suggests that the Persian confection ahbisa (jelly) was the ancestor of Turkish rahat lokum, the long name for the sweet.

I wonder that is there a delight in Iran like lokum? Can somebody inform me?

Ruzgar 21:56, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

Oh, God, persians will claim Turks are persian origin or even the aliens are persian origin, stop that, and I can't understand why it wirtes lokum's Greek word? Thre isn't any citation about it's a Greek word. Qghvz

It is not important whether there is lokum in Iran..Some people should claim and try to prove that a Turkish dessert or food is either Persian or Arabic (if not Byzantine) and not Turkish. Even Turkish delight should not be Turkish. However, unfortunately, it is of Turkish origin and dating back to 15th century. As the dessert which is claimed to be the ancestor of baklava does not contain any dough(?!) in it, sweets shown as ancestor of lokum should be some other sweets not related to lokum at all. I said that lokma means "morsel" or "small pieces" in Turkish. "Redhouse" does not link it directly with "lokum" which is derived from Ottoman "rahat-ol hulkum" (meaning which comforts the throat). As lokum was eaten for digestion after heavy meals they were calling the sweet as rahat hulkum (rahat means comfortable, convenient, relaxed in Turkish). So if something is coming from Arabic it is the word hulkum meaning throat. Cause there is no other Turkish word used for "rahat"!!! People should know that Ottoman was an artificial language; a mixture of Turkish, Arabic, Persian...So this is not a corruption of Arabic. It is an Ottoman saying!

In addition to all that: the nowadays delight is made from Corn Starch! and from sugar, two basic products which have their origin in America (Central and South). So, how can they have their real origin in Middle East or Europe?

 * Actually, sugarcane originated in India and New Guinea, from which it spread throughout the Old World long before it ever reached the Americas. As the article itself suggests, however, before granulated sugar was widely used honey from bees and molasses (which can be made from sugarbeets) the were common sweeteners. Also, there are plenty of substitutes for corn starch, white flour being a readily accessible one that is also mentioned in the article. --166.66.116.254 (talk) 00:43, 12 March 2009 (UTC)

In Popular Culture
I think that it is safe to delete this section. Someone already deleted most of it to no objection. The only item that remains is one that begins with a highly doubtful statement "Turkish Delight is probably best known among English speakers as the addictive confection to which Edmund Pevensie succumbs in The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe by C.S. Lewis." Oh, so that is how people know about Turkish Delight? Yeah right! Maybe if you are 12. I am only trying to discuss this out of deference to whoever put in a comment to discuss the section before deleting it. Does anyone feel that the previously deleted items should be brought back and the statement that I find dubious should be re-worked, or should we 86 the whole section? Leondegrance
 * The first sentence could probably be removed. However, the cited reference to its sales subsantially increasing after the release of the film should remain. --Eyrian 17:39, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I corrected the grammar in the note about the Madonna song but, honestly, there is noting notable about it (or the Powerpuff Girls reference). At least the others are indicative of the association between the sweet and Turkish culture. BarryNorton (talk) 12:52, 21 August 2008 (UTC)

Napoleon and Churchill
Any source for that? I don't see how Napoleon could have enjoyed something that was not introduced to Europe until after his death. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.132.242.1 (talk) 14:30, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

State candy of washington
??????? who wrote this? Where did you get this information? And since when did states have official "state candy"? it's not like a bird, flower, or tree. here is the only thing i can find: http://www.allbusiness.com/wholesale-trade/merchant-wholesalers-nondurable/762064-1.html Skiendog (talk) 21:51, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Turkish Delight was INVENTED by Haci Bekir
The article writes about unconnected sweets which have nothing to do with what the sweet is today.

Original authentic Turkish Delight was a sweet created by Haci Bekir for the Ottoman Sultan, there is no deep conspiracy of millenia's of Turkish Delight history. It is a sweet a few centuries old, invented by Haci Bekir in Istanbul for the Ottoman Sultan. The sweet became sucesfull and popular across the Empire.

As for it being "Persian" origin, is the entire universe of Persian origin...

Torke —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.0.143 (talk) 01:03, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

 * This claim is not supported by a reliable source. If you have a reliable source to support this - do add it. A newspaper article or a company web page is not a reliable source. The suggestion of Persian origin is made by a historian in a scientific study, which is a reliable source.80.244.22.49 (talk) 15:01, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

 * https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacı_Bekir 46.114.173.159 (talk) 01:23, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a reliable source. We can't have people putting claims in Wikipedia just because somebody else previously put those claims in Wikipedia. Largoplazo (talk) 12:26, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

Should be renamed
Shouldn't this article should be renamed either lokum or loukoum? Turkish Delight is a brand name. Davedim (talk) 08:48, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

No. It is not just a brand name (of the Cadbury's chocalate bar). It is the generic name for lokum in the English-speaking world. Vauxhall1964 (talk) 23:23, 20 July 2008 (UTC) 199.202.95.19 (talk) 23:49, 30 October 2008 (UTC) In addition to all that: the nowadays delight is made from Corn Starch! and from sugar, two basic products which have their origin in America (Central and South). So, how can they have their real origin in Middle East or Europe?

Is rosewater ever pink?
From the article: "It is often flavored with rosewater and lemon, the former giving it a characteristic pale pink color."

I've never seen pink rosewater, and I suspect any pink color is the result of food coloring, but I'll let someone more knowledgeable on the topic do the update. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.48.195.110 (talk) 21:19, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Recipes that I've seen for pink Turkish Delight generally use either cochineal or a synthetic dye as a colorant. I've not seen pink rosewater either. Kay Dekker (talk) 17:25, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

removed to its own page from unrelated disambig
Akanes is a variation of Turkish Delight made in Serres with a distinct butter taste.

Rose water - if steamed for however long it takes - will take on the colour of the petals used. Red roses will create a pink water without the addition of any natural or artificial colour being added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.19.120.230 (talk) 15:07, 28 December 2012 (UTC)

Copra?
I can't find any occurrence in the references to copra used as a packing agent. Is it possible that 'desiccated coconut' - a common culinary ingredient - is meant, rather than 'copra', which, in my experience is used either as an animal food or as an industrial feedstock? In either case, we should have a reference to a reliable source. Kay Dekker (talk) 17:22, 2 August 2009 (UTC)

Etymology..
Hi! In Greece this delight is named as Λουκούμι( Loucoumi), in Turkey as Loukoum. I think that both names of the same delight have not Greek or Turkish origin. In fact i think the name is Roman, through the famous Roman Lucullus,who was famous for his rich dinners that he had.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucullus

So that the adjective lucullan characterized by extravagance and profusion"a lavish buffet" "a lucullan feast".

http://dictionary.sensagent.com/lucullan/en-el/

So, i think the Greeks took the word from the Romans and after the occupation of Byzantine Empire from the Ottomans passed to the Turks.

The phrase i think is well known to the English speaking world or to countries that their language is based in Latin.Here in Greece we also use that phrase λουκούλειο γεύμα( loukouleio geuma ) and i believe in Turkey also would have the same or similar phrase.

Finally, loukoum or λουκούμι mean rich and flavour taste of this delight from the memmory of the Roman Lucullus and his rich meals. (unsigned contrib by anon).

 * Nice story, but you don't give any reliable sources for it. Anyway, the Arabic source seems pretty well-documented. (The Babiniotis dictionary agrees with the Turkish etymology.) --macrakis (talk) 01:55, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

Serving Temperature?
I'm kind of surprised to see the 'serving temperature' for this labeled as "cold". Wouldn't it just be room temperature? "Cold" implies that it's chilled... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.103.231.6 (talk) 17:29, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Ottoman lokum vs. modern lokum
At the Grand Bazaar, vendors tell me that the yellow/green/red variety covered in powdered sugar is the original style produced in the Ottoman times, and that the other variety with a clear colour, usually with pistachio or hazel nuts, and often rolled in shredded coconut is a modern invention of the Republic era. If this is true, it deserves prominence in the article, but I can't cite Grand Bazaar vendors as references in Wikipedia. Anybody know about that? --Atkinson (talk) 15:59, 2 July 2010 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Anthony Appleyard (talk) 21:55, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Turkish Delight →
 * It's a lowercase "d" according to the consensus of OneLook hits and dead tree dictionaries I can find. But I'm puzzled at why this doesn't seem to have come up before. Smjg (talk) 22:48, 16 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Support. This is not even controversial.  —   AjaxSmack   21:11, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Availability of Turkish delight in Canada and the US
The article as currently written is, frankly, out of date as regards the availability of T.d. in Canada. Turkish delight is fairly common in the Great White North, especially at the many small groceries catering to Middle Eastern immigrants. These specialist groceries are also enthusiastically patronized by the population at large, so T.d. is well known across Canada these days. Particular toward Christmas, T.d. will even turn up in my everyday grocery store as one of the special treats brought in in anticipation of the holiday season.

I rather suspect the same is true in the US as well. Perhaps some of the Americans interested in T.d. might scout around their own cities to see how readily available it is.

Was this detail copied from some food compendium that hasn't kept up to date with developments?

Floozybackloves (talk) 03:33, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

 * I don't know about Canada-wide, but here in Toronto it is available at my local non-ethnic Price Chopper: "Turkish Delight", product of Turkey, available in boxes in several styles, nut, no nut, and so on. It is available fresh at small places. It can be found fresh in Greektown where it is typically labelled "Greek [sic] Delight" and where shoppers may be verbally assaulted by the staff when ordering it by its real name.
 * 99.237.226.18 (talk) 23:09, 15 February 2013 (UTC)

 * I agree -- In the USA, you can buy it in Walmart, for gosh sake, also in Trader Joe's and other big chains. I am editing the North America section to reflect contemporary reality. Thanks for filling me in on what's up in Canada. 70.36.137.127 (talk) 03:13, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

"In Greece and its islands it is often branded "Greek Delight", possibly because of the historic hostility between Greece and Turkey."
Really? That's a bit presumptuous a statement, isn't it? Particularly for an encyclopaedic article? Couldn't it just be that they're trying to market a product to their tourists as a local variety / specialty? (otherwise, why brand it in English at all). Cyprus does exactly that (as mentioned in the previous paragraph), and in fact they've gained PGI from the EU for it, as the island's local variety is distinguishable enough to set it apart from the traditional Turkish ones. I mean, if you're gonna write a statement like that, might as well spice it up and say "because they raped their women and children" or something. Seriously, no need to incite political hatred here. Move along. I'm deleting the latter part of the statement from the article. If someone has particular evidence why that statement was historically valid, and good reasons why it is of relevance to the article itself, then feel free to discuss it here. Tpapastylianou (talk) 10:27, 10 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I make note that if you're in Greece and you innocently call something Turkish (e.g. "Turkish Coffee" you will be swiftly corrected. But I agree with Tpapastylianou that issue probably doesn't belong in this article.  Kcrossle (talk) 16:19, 29 April 2012 (UTC)

rahat-ol hulkum
rahat-ol hulkum is pure Arabic and can be written "rahat-el-Halkoum" or "rahat-al-halkou" and there is only one way to write in Arabic "راحه الحلقوم". The Arab now call it sometimes "raha" or "halkoum" a short way to say "rahat-el-halkoum" This name means "comfort of the throat" as it is easy to swallow.

This name has travelled all the way from the Greater Syria area (Syria,Lebanon,and Palestine)north to Eastern Europe and East to Iran. It does not make sense the Turkish use the Arabic description (name)for something they invented. The name has nothing to do with the word "loqma" "لقمه"

Whoever you claim as the Turkish inventor is simply a person who is the first to make business out of something that existed before, and he gave it an Arabic name. Any other claim is not founded on any historical proven facts. It is just pure emotional thinking that defy logic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.82.154.118 (talk) 02:20, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * You are not a reliable source - got anything that is?-- Laun  chba  ller  07:22, 17 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It was invented in the Ottoman Empire 1777 by
 * https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacı_Bekir
 * Everything else is nonsense. 46.114.173.159 (talk) 01:26, 5 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Not only is Wikipedia not a citable source for Wikipedia articles, the article you linked doesn't even support the claim that you're making:
 * "Lokum war schon im 14. Jahrhundert in Anatolien bekannt."
 * Or in English:
 * "Lokum was already known in the 14th century in Anatolia." 82.163.149.40 (talk) 18:31, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

Some suggestions to improve article
Hello all, I noticed there wasn't a lot of information concerning the ingredients (other than the lead, which isn't cited) and the process of making Turkish delight. For the article I would suggest including a section dedicated to the production/manufacturing process of Turkish delight and the recipe for it as well. This way, the article will be much more complete. Also in the 'In Popular Culture' section, I suggest including quotation marks on 'addictive confection' to show that this is what the book, 'The Lion, The Witch and the Wardrobe' implied, because it somewhat sounds like a biased statement without the quotation marks. Thank you. --Sapphire8765 (talk) 13:55, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Persia or Iran?
Is Persia still used enough to be listed as the name instead of Iran? Unbeatable101 (talk) 16:01, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

Gelatin?
As of the time of writing, the introductory paragraphs do not mention gelatine, though it is listed in the sidebar as a main ingredient with 2 sources (these sources are not in a language this editor can read, for posterity). Is gelatin a main ingredient or not, is it an ingredient in variant recipes, and does gelatin in this context mean as we would commonly understand it a collagen derived from animal products? 80.162.26.181 (talk) 19:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

 * Good question. I also do not read Arabic, and while I normally avoid machine translation, in this case it seems acceptable for double-checking the cited source. Of the two, only the translation of one mentioned gelatin. So it seems like it is only sometimes used. I have added an English-language recipe, which also does not mention gelatin, and moved gelatin to the 'Ingredients generally used' field along with fruit and nuts, per the article. Grayfell (talk) 21:09, 16 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Turkish delight


text:
Torreys Peak

Torreys Peak is a mountain in the Front Range region of the Rocky Mountains in Colorado. It is one of 53 fourteeners in Colorado. Its nearest major city is Denver. Torreys Peak is located along the Continental Divide, as well as the division between Clear Creek County and Summit County. In the Arapaho language Torrey's Peak and the adjacent Gray's Peak are named, Heeniiyoowuu or "Ant Hills".

Name
The first European to ascend Torreys Peak, botanist Charles C. Parry, named the peak for his botanist colleague John Torrey. Torrey actually did not see the peak until 1872, 11 years later (the year before his death at the age 76). It is nearly always mentioned in conjunction with nearby Grays Peak.

Hiking
There are three main trails used to reach the summit. The first is actually a continuation of Grays Peak Trail to the summit of Grays Peak, which starts in Stevens Gulch. See the Grays Peak article for more information on accessing that trail.

A popular and challenging variation of this trail follows class-3 Kelso Ridge. This route splits from the Grays Peak trail 2 mi from the trailhead, climbs to the 12400 ft saddle between Torreys and 13164 ft Kelso Mountain, then follows the rugged ridge about 1 mi to the summit.

The third trail starts at Loveland Pass about 4.5 mi to the northwest. To reach Loveland Pass, follow I-70 west from Denver 55 mi to where US Route 6 breaks off and heads south. Follow the meandering Route 6 approximately seven miles to the trailhead at Loveland Pass, at an elevation of 11990 ft. The steepest part of the trail actually begins right away with a half mile climb of 1000 ft. The trail follows the Continental Divide gently taking the climber down into three saddles and up two more peaks, including Grizzly Peak at 13427 ft and Mount Sniktau at 13234 ft. The final saddle rests at approximately 12,600 ft. From this saddle, it is a mile-long ascent of 1800 ft to the final summit.

Once at the summit, many opt to continue on to Grays Peak, 0.75 mi away. The trail from Torreys Peak to Grays Peak dips down to a 13707 ft saddle and then climbs back up to 14270 ft.

title: Torreys Peak


text: User talk:82.145.230.138

title: User talk:82.145.230.138


text:
Matrix defense

The Matrix defense is a legal defense based on the premise of the film franchise The Matrix, in which reality is a computer generation and the real world is different from what reality is popularly perceived to be.

A defendant using this defense claims that they committed a crime because they believed that they were in a simulated world (the Matrix), and not in the real world. A defendant could allege they never intended death for their victim because they believed the victim to be alive in the other reality. This is a version of the insanity defense and considered a descendant of the Taxi Driver defense of John Hinckley, one of the first defenses based on blurring reality with films.

Regardless of whether the defendant believes that they were living within a simulated world, this defense has been used in cases where the accused were sent to mental-care facilities instead of prisons:
 * Tonda Lynn Ansley of Hamilton, Ohio, was found not guilty by reason of insanity using this defense after shooting her landlady in the head in July 2002.
 * Vadim Mieseges of San Francisco offered a Matrix explanation to police after chopping up his landlady, and was declared mentally incompetent to stand trial.
 * Joshua Cooke's lawyers were going to attempt this defense in 2003 in his trial for the murder of his adoptive parents, before he pleaded guilty.
 * The case of Lee Malvo, who participated in the sniper shootings of 30 victims in 2002, also included references to The Matrix, mentioned in the writings taken from his jail cell. Malvo reportedly shouted "free yourself from the Matrix" from his cell after his arrest, and told FBI agents to watch the film if they wanted to understand him.

title: Matrix defense


text:
Birchwood

Birchwood or Birch Wood, may refer to:

 * Birch wood, a type of wood of the Birch tree
 * birch wood, a grove of birch trees and its wood

Arts, entertainment, media

 * Birchwood, 1973 novel by John Banville
 * The Birch Wood (Brzezina), a 1970 Polish dramatic film
 * Birch Wood (painting), a painting by Christian Rohlfs (1849–1938) at the Museum Folkwang, Essen, Germany; see List of artists in the Web Gallery of Art (L–Z)
 * "Birch Woods" (song), a tune from the 2022 film The Northman off the soundtrack The Northman (soundtrack)

People

 * Selwyn Birchwood (born 1985), American blues guitarist
 * Birch Wood de Lappe (actor), father of U.S. dancer Gemze de Lappe

Places
In England, UK
 * Birchwood, Cheshire, a civil parish in the north-eastern part of Warrington
 * Birchwood railway station
 * Birch Wood, Woodham Walter Common SSSI, Danbury, Essex
 * Birchwood, Hertfordshire, a location
 * Birchwood, Lincoln, Lincolnshire
 * Birch Wood, Stringside, Barton Bendish, Norfolk
 * Birchwood, Somerset
 * Lower Birchwood and Upper Birchwood, Derbyshire
 * Birch Wood, North Yorkshire; a conservancy managed by Yorkshire Wildlife Trust

In New Zealand
 * Birchwood, New Zealand, a locality in the Southland Region

In the United States
 * Birchwood, Alaska
 * Birchwood, Michigan
 * Birchwood, Tennessee
 * Birchwood (Arlington, Virginia), a historic log house in Arlington County, Virginia
 * Birchwood, Wisconsin, a village
 * Birchwood (town), Wisconsin, a town
 * Birchwood, Kewaunee County, Wisconsin, an unincorporated community
 * Birchwood Village, Minnesota

Facilities and structures

 * Birch Wood School, Melton Mowbray, Leicestershire, England, UK; see List of schools in Leicestershire
 * Birkenau Concentration Camp, referred to as "Birch Wood" in the Vrba–Wetzler report

title: Birchwood


text: User talk:206.70.251.252

title: User talk:206.70.251.252


text:
Waterton-Glacier International Peace Park

The Waterton-Glacier International Peace Park is the union of Waterton Lakes National Park in Canada and Glacier National Park in the United States. Both parks are declared Biosphere Reserves by UNESCO and their union as a World Heritage Site.

Formation
The union of the Waterton Lakes National Park and the Glacier National Park is attributed to a number of individuals throughout the late 19th and early 20th centuries. Early proponents of a borderless international park include Canadian George "Kootenay" Brown, a long-time settler and first forest ranger-in-charge of Waterton, and American Albert Henry “Death-on-the-Trail” Reynolds, an early ranger of the northern portion of Glacier.

The Cardston, Alberta, and Montana Rotary Clubs played a significant role in the park's establishment, holding a joint meeting at the Prince of Wales Hotel on July 4–5, 1931, which led to a resolution drafted by Samuel H. Middleton, calling on both groups to petition the proper authorities for the establishment of the Peace Park. An agreement was subsequently negotiated by Canadian Brigadier-General John Smith Stewart, Member of Parliament for Lethbridge, and American Congressman from Montana Scott Leavitt. The 72nd United States Congress passed An Act to establish Waterton Glacier International Peace Park on December 8, 1931, and be approved by the United States Senate in March 1932. The Canadian federal government decided to wait until after the United States government had passed a bill in order to act, and the Canadian bill was further delayed by protests of proponents of the International Peace Garden between Manitoba and North Dakota. Finally, John Stewart's Act respecting the Waterton-Glacier International Peace Park was passed by Parliament, and given royal assent on May 26, 1932.

The union of the parks was achieved through the efforts of Rotary International members from Alberta and Montana, on June 18, 1932, at Glacier Park Lodge. The dedication address was given by Sir Charles Arthur Mander, 2nd Baronet. The ceremony for the Canadian side was delayed by the Great Depression, and finally took place in July 1936, with Lieutenant Governor of Alberta William L. Walsh overseeing the ceremony and dedicating a cairn for conservation advocate Kootenay Brown.

Later history
The two parks are administered separately and have separate entrance fees.

In 2007, the International Dark-Sky Association named Waterton-Glacier International Peace Park the International Dark-Sky Park.

Border crossing
The Chief Mountain Border Crossing, reached by Montana Highway 17 from the American side and by Alberta Highway 6 from the Canadian side, is the only road border crossing within the Waterton-Glacier International Peace Park. It is one of only two on the US-Canada border that are closed in winter (Poker Creek - Little Gold Creek Border Crossing is the other).


text:
Wishcraft

Wishcraft is a 2002 American slasher film directed by Richard Wenk (credited as Danny Graves) and starring Michael Weston and Alexandra Holden. The screenplay concerns a teenager who receives a talisman that gives him three wishes.

Plot
A high school student named Brett Bumpers (Weston) receives a mysterious package one day. It contains a bull penis totem with a note explaining that it will grant him three wishes. His first wish is for Samantha (Alexandra Holden) to go with him to a spring dance. The next day, Samantha invites him to the dance, and he suspects that his wish has come true. Samantha's boyfriend Cody is the star jock at the school, and he is humiliated by Samantha's decision.

After the dance, one of Cody's buddies is murdered by a cloaked figure with a grotesquely disfigured face. When Brett drops Samantha off at home, she suggests that they should return to just being friends. Heartbroken, Brett makes his second wish that Samantha would become his girlfriend and actually fall in love with him. The next day, Samantha breaks up with Cody and initiates a relationship with Brett. Meanwhile, the cloaked figure continues to kill students at the high school.

Feeling guilty about wishing Samantha into a relationship, Brett confesses the truth to her. As Samantha is coming to grips with the truth, the cloaked figure attacks the pair. He lures Brett away from Samantha and then reveals himself to be Brett's history teacher, Mr. Turner (Austin Pendleton). Mr. Turner explains that he bought the totem and discovered that it actually granted wishes. He wished his wife dead, to avoid divorcing her. Then he wished for "Fuck-you-money", and he promptly got $100 million which he hid in a Swiss bank account. Mr. Turner confessed that he also wished for supernatural strength, because he decided to kill problem students at the school. As he was killing the students on his list, he sent the totem to Brett because he was an exemplary student. If the totem is given to another person, that person can also make three wishes.

Mr. Turner then reveals that Samantha is the last name on his list. Just as he is about to kill Samantha, Brett makes his third wish, asking for more strength and agility than Mr. Turner. The two struggle, and eventually, Brett kills Mr. Turner with a samurai sword. Brett gives the totem to Samantha so that she is not forced to love him against her will. She uses the totem to begin their relationship again, but this time, on her own terms.

Reception
Website Beyond Hollywood gave the film a positive review, stating: "The film doesn’t have the Hollywood slick and gloss, but it makes up for the lack of visual polish with a surprisingly good script and an all-around good cast." Eye for Film gave Wishcraft two out of film stars, saying that only fans of the genre would enjoy the film: "Perhaps dedicated fans of the genre might find some solace in the films use of the old horror clichés, but I don't think anyone else will. Still, at least there's plenty of suspects for you to play Guess The Psycho..." Luisito Joaquín González from Slash Above also reviewed the film, concluding: "Of the myriad of Scream imitators that were unleashed during the early noughties, Wishcraft is most definitely not one of the worst that you can place your hands upon. Weston and Holden make for an agreeable pairing and the film is worth seeing for maintaining an impressive pace and generating moments of unique humour. It is an ok time-waster rather than a good one and I can’t help but feel that it tries too hard to have one over on Wes Craven and Kevin Williamson."

title: Wishcraft