text:
Talk:Warsaw Uprising/Archive 1

Early discussion
I saw also 10.000 as number of Germans killed alone, and Polish losses as 25 thousand wounded, and civilian population 100.000. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Szopen (talk • contribs) 18:56, 23 November 2003 (UTC)

The sentance "Soviet assistance to the Home Army was limited to collaboration only on a tactical level and then shooting or sending the Home Army soldiers to Siberia" does not fit into the text.

I think the references to Armia Krajowa, Home Army, and AK should consistantly be to "Home Army", after they have been explained. Since this is an English article the Polish is awkward.

The following part was moved to talk, since it doesn't fit into text.

''However there were also accidents of killing Jews during uprising. Between 20-60 Jews was killed, although number is highly controversial. The best documented case is murdering Jews by unit of cpt. "Hal" (Waclaw Strykowski) in Dluga street. ''

Killing of Jews and non-Jews is moved to the section of killings of civilians.

As I understand in the Uprisisng was killed 200 000 people. There is no sense to underline killing of 60 people.

 * 200 000 civilians was killed by Nazis. 50-60 Jews were killed by Polish soldiers (who were killing also other Poles) - although "soldiers" should be in apostrophes in that case Szopen]]

1st August Anniversary
It would be nice if for the 1st August we could transform this into an article worthy of Main Page Featuread Article section, don't you think so? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:21, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Yup. What needs to be expanded/corrected/modified? Lets share the work and prepare it for the article for the upcoming anniversary. Halibutt 06:47, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)

Headers
I will just point out that if we want to use more 'article-like' headers, I have compiled a list in Talk:Warsaw Uprising. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 22:20, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * The names in this project are temporary. However, I suggest we used more encyclopedia-like titles. Halibutt 23:00, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)

I have proposed the start of the Warsaw Uprising as an anniversary for the August 1st. Would it be possible to get this article integrated into place by then? This would have the advantage that any extra edits which are done go to the right article at the same time, if the article is mostly complete by then it would make the page better at the time when it becomes very visible. Mozzerati 07:17, 2004 Jul 28 (UTC)
 * It should be ready by then. I'm almost finished with the first section, we have some more pics. The only thing we lack is help from someone who actually knows something about the Rising to complete the other sections. Halibutt 09:30, Jul 28, 2004 (UTC)

Materials to contribute:

I am willing to share with wiki materials (text, photos, art, documents) from warsawuprising.com. Also, would like to make some suggestions for the selection of pictures. Please contact me thru the site email or here. Ttyre 05:05, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Mail sent to info@projectinposterum.org. Halibutt 06:56, Jul 30, 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't feel sufficiently like "someone who actually knows something" to take on a whole section, so I volunteer to go searching for materials and links on the internet. I'll propose putting them directly on the talk:Warsaw Uprising page rather than here so that others can see those bits we don't use after this small project is finished.  I can also copy edit, if materials are up on line.  Also I'm in Warsaw, with a digital camera, a day mostly free and it's a sunny day, so I can take some photos (monuments/bullet holes etc.) later (suggestions?).  BTW I also mailed to volunteer to put stuff up (between edits).

Mozzerati 07:15, 2004 Jul 30 (UTC)

I've gathered the pictures (about 100 came out, including photos which show the street name where I'm taking other photos). They're on my personal server so I'm not publishing the IP address (public, but not published :-). Halibutt is looking at them and uploading the ones he wants. Piotrus also has the link. If anyone else would like to see them before they are uploaded, please email me agreeing not to pass on the link I give and I'll send it to you. In any case please wait for Halibutt to decide which ones he wants to upload. License of those uploaded will automatically become GFDL as with my other images. N.B. some of them, especially in Zelazna may (or may not) show Warsaw Ghetto Uprising damage, not Warsaw Uprising damage. The ones taken in Mokotow are more certain as far as I'm concerned. Others may have better knowledge of course. Mozzerati 18:03, 2004 Jul 30 (UTC)

 * Tnx for the pic! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:48, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I've updated the current Warsaw Uprising article to make it a bit more grammatical and better organised, though I've not added any significant new content. People will already be looking at the article now that the uprising commemorations are beginning, so it's best to have a reasonable version in place before this much better version gets published. -- ChrisO 19:37, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Good. However keep in mind that we are working here mostly and it I am not sure if we will be able to accommodate changes made to the orginal article, or will we just move what we have here and replace it - so if you would add your changes here as well this would ensure your work does not go in vain. Btw, I see you have nominated WU for Featured Article...I hope we go through. C'mon ppl, let's vote! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:36, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Idea in general
Dear Halibutt,

despite I respect your intention to make the article even better, I suppose it's wrong idea to make preparations here and then to move a better article to the proper place. It's not how wiki intended to work. As a minor effect, you have to insert numerous warnings into the body of the article to inform others that it is being edited somewhere else. As more long-term and worse effect, such moves drop editing history, and, to the some extent, violate GNU FDL...

So, please consider if it is possible to achieve your goals without moving the page.

Thank you!

Dr Bug (Volodymyr V. Medeiko) 09:50, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * We will do so in the future. ATM we are moving the article and all further changes will be done on the official page. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:16, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

October
Work in progress on 'detail' section continues here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:22, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Sections needing eventuall expansion
Those were in our primary project but till today we haven't gotten to expanding them:

List of names to be considered
Mozzerati 17:31, 2004 Aug 1 (UTC)
 * Mariensztat
 * Aleje Jerozolimskie

Ttyre 14:36, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Jerozolimskie Avenue (Jerusalem Avenue)
 * Zoliborz (Jolibord)
 * Czerniakow (Cherniakov)
 * Powisle (Riverside)
 * Srodmiescie > Center City
 * Plac Bankowy > Bank Sq.
 * Teatr Wielki > Opera House
 * Plac Zamkowy > Royal Castle Sq.
 * Plac na Rozdrozu > Crossroad Sq.
 * Plac Krasinskich > Krasinski Sq.
 * Ogrod Saski > Saxon Garden

Mozzerati 17:41, 2004 Aug 2 (UTC)
 * Festung Warschau (Fortress Warsaw) -- I really hate the phrase "Warsaw was declared a Festung Warschau"... the article clashes with what should be a proper name. I think it should be "The town was declared `Fortress Warsaw'" by the Germans.

 * Yes, I am all for Fortress instead of the German term which is almost as unknown as Polish words :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:27, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * IMO they should be left as they are. Jerusalem Avenue might be more informative, but this article should also be a reference for those who want to learn more about the Uprising. I doubt they will find any info on Jerusalem Avenue anywhere but in Rising '44. Also, Mary's Town sounds bizarre. Halibutt 20:42, Aug 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * So just leave them translated once in parenthesis for informative purposes and then use the orginal term. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:44, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't care which term is chosen (that's easy for me to say since I use the Polish every day) but I do care that it's consistent. Same name all through the article.  Home army is used 46 times, Armia Krajowa 13 times;  Even if we want to repeat it, we should choose which is the main one and always have it whilst having the other one in brackets.  Warszawa is used a couple of times, but these are names, so they could be okay.    The fighting section on the "old town" is followed by a section on the loss of the "stare miasto".  etc..  I'm willing to do the fixes, but let's get some agreement about which way first.  "Old Town", "Home Army" and "Warsaw" are ones I'm fairly sure should be in Engish (with Polish in brackets on first use); much of the rest could be Polish (with English in brackets if it's valuable, like Royal Castle square) Mozzerati 17:41, 2004 Aug 2 (UTC)

 * IMO use original names wherever possible with upper case Sq. St., etc. with its English phonetic version or translation when appropriate. See proposed convention above. I currently translate the Warsaw Uprising-era city maps and am wrestling with the proper name convention.

--Ttyre 14:36, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Sounds good to me. So basically, we have two choises here:

a) use English translated name everywhere, and Polish in first case in brackets b) use Polish translated name everywhere, and English in first case in brackets Isn't there a Wiki policy for that somewhere? Otherwise I recommend a 3 days voting and we will go with the option that has most votes. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:27, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm for translating only the City Centre and the Old Town since that is how those areas are usually referred to in English. All the others including the street names should be anglicized only (Bankowy square instead of Plac Bankowy, but not Bank square; Saski Garden instead of Ogród Saski but not Saxon Garden, and so on). Some of the others are simply Daviesism and their usage in an wikipedia article is totally out of the question. Halibutt 20:50, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)

 * To try to state the problem more clearly. There is a matter of taste.  Certain ones have to be in English (Warsaw), Certain ones have to be in Polish (Mariensztat) due to lack of good translation.  There's a grey area in the middle.  We have to decide where the dividing line is.  Since it seems that everybody agrees that Polish is better here in most cases, we can easily and simply list the ones which we think should be in English.  "Old Town", "Home Army" and "Warsaw" as before + "City Centre".  So we can't vote simply since yes or no.  We have to list.

 * So there are probably only three geographical names that should/could be translated to English - the ones I mentioned and Warsaw itself. I can't think of anything more. Halibutt 09:00, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)

 * Oooops! I just noticed that due to recent CVAs edits the Home Army link does not point to Armia Krajowa anymore. The user did not correct the links so far so probably we'd have to stick to the latter, Polish name. See the Talk:Home Army page as well. Halibutt 10:38, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)

 * Interesting. I responded there as well, but since this term *can* be apparently confusing, I would recommend using Armia Krajowa instead Home Army in most of the article. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 16:16, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I think it's okay to be globally ambiguous as long as it's a clear term in this context and we give links directly to the proper page Home Army . N.B. Warsaw is Warsaw (disambiguation) ambiguous!  Home army is used in all news reports so it makes it much easier for a native English speaker to follow.  Aim for a "simple" principle of least surprise...

 * As to te Festung Warschau case: I'm against translating it to English or Polish. In Polish the term is almost never translated and is left in German. The reason for that is that the Polish equivalent of Festung Warschau is Twierdza Warszawa, which is usually reserved for one of the Armia Krajowa redoubts in the area, not for the German defensive plan.

 * Similarily, in English the term Warsaw Stronghold or Warsaw Fortress should refer either to the Cytadela fortress in Warsaw or to the redoubt. There are lots of articles here on this wiki that have names in German and are not translated to English for similar reasons. Halibutt 12:13, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)

 * Happy to see some activity here. For starters - names. There is no name of Polish commanders and such. Icreated a section where we can list all important names with short description who was who. We could also try to divide the description into some section - I am not sure how they should be based. Time (weeks)? Side activity/POV? Btw, do check my page for my IM info (ICQ and GG whatever u prefer). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:54, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I'd suggest dividing the article as follows:

 * Header
 * Eve of the Battle
 * the Soviet advance and propaganda -> On the East: Soviet advance and propaganda
 * Polish government-in-exile -> On the West: Polish government-in-exile
 * Operation Tempest -> Here and now: Operation Tempest
 * German plans of creation of Festung Warschau -> German scheme: creation of Festung Warschau
 * The "W" hour
 * Initial advances -> First moves
 * Massacre of Wola -> Second move: The Wola Massacre
 * Siege of PAST building Third move: Siege of PAST building
 * failed attacks on Okecie, Pola Mokotowskie and Warszawa Gdanska train station -> Failed moves: Okecie, Pola Mokotowskie, Train Station
 * 63 days
 * description of the battle after the front lines were established -> Stabilization of front lines
 * loss of Żoliborz, Stare Miasto -> The circle tightens: loss of &, Stare Miasto
 * the sewers and the barricades -> The scenery: the sewers and the barricades
 * Berling landings on Powiśle -> Soviet 'help': Berling landings on Powi&
 * Allied airdrops -> Western Allies help: the airdrops
 * life behind the frontlines (theatres, post offices, Błyskawica, newspapers and so on) -> Life behind the frontlines: Few weeks of Poland reborn
 * International situation -> Outside Warsaw: Poland, Europe, World
 * Soviet policy towards the Home Army, Wanda and Kościuszko radio stations, and so on -> On the East: No will to help
 * 1st Belarussian and 1st Ukrainian Fronts, Polish People's Army -> or merge with the above
 * Churchill and Roosevelt -> On the West: good wishes from far away
 * Jan Karski -> ??
 * Aftermath
 * capitulation -> The end is here: the capitulation
 * Destruction of the city -> A city was here: 85% of the city in ruins
 * civilian casualties -> The butcher's bill: the casualties (note: merge civilian and military, or divde with smaller subheaders''
 * concentration camps around Warsaw -> Nazi's tools of trade: the concentration camps around Warsaw
 * Warsaw Uprising and the Operation Tempest -> Aftermath of the...
 * "Liberation" in January 1945
 * All the rest
 * List of imporant people
 * List of military formations
 * Tables, footnotes, related reading

 * What do you think? If you agree with my overall idea I could create a project page and we'd prepare a new, rewritten version for the anniversary. Halibutt 20:05, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nice. I have reworked the titles into more 'captivating' article titles in italic (if a replacemnt for your header I put -> in front of my to the right of yours), if u like them we can use them. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:39, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Quotes
An idea for a new section: quotes about Warsaw Uprising (or related). So far I have those (I will translate them shortly):
 * before the Uprisng:
 * More then 1000 members of German Ordnungspolizei and Sicherheitspolizei have died in the course of their normal police duties, this does not include the losses during the participation of any special operations. Alongside those losses, the number of 500 casualties among the various officials of all administration sectors deservers a separate mention - from the speach of Hans Frank on 18 November 1943
 * If not for Warsaw in the General Government, we wouldn't have 4/5 of our current problems on that territory. Warsaw was and will be the center or chaos and a place from which opposition spreads throughout the rest of the country - [Hans Frank]] in 14 December 1943, Cracow

 * during the uprising
 * Contrary to our expectations, the enemy has halted all of their offensive actions alonside the entire front of the 9th Army. - from the operations journal of German 9th Army on 16 August 1944, entry shows the German amazement with Russian responce to the Warsaw Uprising

 * after the uprising
 * one the most deadly fights since the begining of the war, as difficult as the fight for Stalingrad - Heinrich Himmler to other German generals on 21 IX 1944

--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 18:48, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Featured article objections
Jeronimo 09:26, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC) wrote the following as objections, which should be fixed to make this a featured article:

1) The infotable doesn't explain what the abbreviations (KIA etc.) mean. Also, the numbers are different from what is discussed later in the text. I would also like to see sources for the estimates, since these tend to vary wildly. Statements like "German MIA were never declared dead in order to lessen the total casualties rate." are quite bold and should be attributed, even if they are true.

 * Abbreviations are interlinked now - all work except WIA. Numbers are unified. Sources known to me added. Statement wasn't made by me. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:06, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * linked in MIA / KIA / WIA also Mozzerati 11:25, 2004 Aug 1 (UTC)

 * Links are OK, but numbers are still conflicting, also with the lead section. POW is mentioned for Poland, but not for Germany. Jeronimo 13:56, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Lead section has the most common used averages, while the detail sections has all estimates from lowest to highest. POW is mentioned for Germany. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:05, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't think we have to attribute this statement. Neithr the Third Reich nor Germany declared those missing dead. In other words the Federal Republic still thinks that there are some 7000 German soldiers wandering in Warsaw in search of their units. I cannot think of any other purpose of such policy. However, I'll attribute the statement to please you. Halibutt 11:50, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)

2) There's still "editing notes" in the article, such as "I don't think we need that part here? It is repeated in above paragraph anyway."

 * Removed that note. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:06, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * OK. Jeronimo 13:56, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

3) I'm not quite sure we need the huge table of military formations in this article, especially since only the Polish formation are discussed in such details, while the German troops are listed briefly with "various support and backup units". This should be made into a separate list article.

 * I think it is an informative piece of info, but if more ppl object to this table here we can move it to a dedicated one. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:06, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I think it is background information at best, and doesn't belong in this article. Also the unbalance between information on German/Polish troops is disturbing. Jeronimo 13:56, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I vote that the Polish section be replaced with a sumamry (five lines or so) and moved to a page such as Warsaw Uprising Polish Participants. It should be linked in clearly, but the need for it comes mostly from inadequate reference to specific facts in the article.  It will also be easier to cross reference to from other pages, especialy if the Warsaw uprising espands (e.g. separate pages for the fights in Mokotow / fate of participants etc.).  The German section can be left as is, (later someone can make a separate page if they wish).  It should be noted though, that the make up of the Polish forces is in some ways more interesting and how they were formed with sufficient secrecy to survive to take part in the uprising makes this more important for the article.  The study of what happened to the "German" forces is also quite instructive.  Some of the Russians among them were eventually handed over to the Soviets by the British it seems.

4) Just yesterday I read an article about the Warsaw Uprising, and it mentions several things not discussed here. There is now a musem about the uprising, and the uprising wasn't remembered until after the fall of communism. Also, several Poles taking part in the uprising say that the uprising was doomed to fail from the beginning because of the differences in strength, and insufficient ammunition is also quoted as a major problem. The article only lists the lack of Soviet assistence as the only reason for failure.

 * Added section 'After the War' and expanded 'Reasons for failure'. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:06, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Not bad, but I corrected many spelling errors in these two sections; they seem to have been added hastily. Please review them for spelling and correctness. Jeronimo 13:56, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

5) I personally find the interchangable use of "Nazi" for "German" inaccurate. Poland was occupied by Germany, so I propose to use that term.

 * I personally don't mind that, but if more ppl agree with you it will be corrected. Poland was occupied by Nazi Germany. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:06, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree with the sentiment, but it has to be clear that some Nazis were not Germans (e.g. Austrians and Ukranian's took part in surpressing the uprising) and many Germans, even some of those in the German army were not Nazis. E.g. the guy who saved Szpilman.  Someone needs to think the use of these two words through and write a policy proposal about when to use which that can be more or less defended.  The BBC is currently using Nazi in their coverage of the uprising.  Because of the complexity mentioned, the use of the wrong term (either one) in the wrong place can definitely be seen to be problematic. Mozzerati 11:26, 2004 Aug 1 (UTC)

 * I would still prefer the use of Germany, since that country occupied Poland (and many other nations). Many Germans, and the government were indeed Nazi Party members, but I find the use of "Poland was occupied by the Nazis" incorrect. Jeronimo 13:56, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, if you feel it is necessary feel free to correct it. I agree with Mozzerati - since it is not clear which term is the best, better to use both to avoid confusion. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:05, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

6) There's no mention of World War II in the lead section.

 * Added. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:06, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * OK Jeronimo 13:56, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

7) I don't think "General" (as in officer) needs to be abbreviated; if it is, it should be either Gen. or gen., but not both.

 * All gen. and Gen. to genral converted. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:06, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * OK Jeronimo 13:56, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

8) The writing is something confusing. E.g. I don't see what the sentence "Even after the war soldiers of Armia Krajowa who took part in the Warsaw Uprising were usually captured by the NKVD, interrogated and imprisoned, awaiting trials on various charges." has to do with the section ""Liberation" of the ruins".

 * Moved this to 'After the war' section. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:06, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * OK Jeronimo 13:56, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

9) Sectioning is non-standard. Double = should be used for main sections.

 * One less == everywhere and some minor changes. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:06, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * OK Jeronimo 13:56, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

10) There are two separate sections dedicated to the Wola massacre; they should be combined.

 * Done. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:06, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

11) What does the "W" in W hour stand for?

 * I am not sure ATM. I could speculate that it is for 'W-wybuch' ('expolosion, start' in Polish) but I can hardly put my own speculations on the Wiki article can I? :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:06, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Norman Davies calls it the "L" hour which suggests it's actually Polish crossed l (transliterated as W). He also doesn't explain where it comes from anywhere that I can find (I haven't had the book so long so I haven't searched properly).

Mozzerati 09:39, 2004 Aug 1 (UTC)

 * Kirchmayer used the term 'W' hour and all materials on the web I browsed also used the 'W' term. I have NO idea where ND could find the 'L' hour...strange. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 13:46, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * If it is unknown what the W is for, I think it shouldn't be used as prominently as this, using it as a section heading. As long as the exact meaning is unknown, just use it in parentheses in the text. Jeronimo 13:56, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * On the contrary, in all publications I have access to the term 'W' hour features prominently. What does D stands for in the D Day? Would you want to remove it as well? It is the same logic here. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 15:05, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * The D in D-day is derived from the word "day", as is the H in "H-Hour", see D-Day. Jeronimo 20:36, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * The only source I can find says it comes from "W for wybuch, outbreak in Polish". (wybuch can also be translated as explosion). Mozzerati 16:01, 2004 Aug 1 (UTC)

 * So I think this one is answered to your satisfaction, Jeronimo? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:43, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

12) Sentence "...Also, a number of RAF and USAAF airmen who were shot down over Warsaw and kept hidden from the Germans in various places by the Home Army joined the fights." implies a number of the Allied airmen fighting Germans in the Warsaw Uprising. I know only about one, John Ward - where there more? If not, I will re-write this sentence. --Ttyre 14:04, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I've heard of six or seven allied airmen, however I don't remember the source and it is probable that they fought with the units outside of Warsaw. There was an article in Gazeta on those guys some two years ago. [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 18:40, Aug 4, 2004 (UTC)

 * Interesting. Please add that info, Tyre - I would like very much to read more about such details. Although this may be best done as a separate article expansion if you have the time and will (for example, a John Ward article? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:35, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * OK, over this weekend, I will correct the sentence about the airmen participating in the Uprising. Also, will start writing an article about John Ward see: www.warsawuprising.com/witness.htm section on him. --Ttyre 16:23, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Captions
Many thanks for editing the captions. However, I have to revert most of your additions since there are simply too many mistakes and the captions seem too long. Sorry for that. [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 13:10, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC) (originally written at User Talk:Richard Taylor

 * I think we're certainly improving the captions here between us. There was need for clarifications. I have endevoured to make all captions full sentances, and generally in line with the pointers at Captions. In my opinion captions such as "...in 2004" appear scrappy. As an alternative to my previous strategy (of expanding the captions) I have attempted to introduce a table to display the 1944 and 2004 images next to each other. This also avoids the problem that comes with having three images next to each other, stacking and leaving unsightly gaps in the text. On another note, perhaps you could add to the Image:Uprising_bank_polski.jpg page, why is it as it is, what has been proposed for its future etc - if it is not as it appears - left as a monument? Richard Taylor 17:00, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, those long captions look bizarre, but if that is the official policy of wikipedia... I expanded the info you requested, contact me if you needed more. Short captions (as the original ones) give no false impressions since everyone can see that they are short and only describe the picture. At the same time longer captions are often misleading and cannot be corrected since there is not enough place. After seing the caption under the grave I thought "hey, what about all the other 150.000 graves?". But again, if this is the wiki policy on captions then nothing can be done...

 * I still have a serious problem with the caption under the picture of the Monument to small partisan. The sentence On August 1, 2004 a commemoration cermony was held at this monument to all the children who fought and fell in the Uprising. is 100% true, but sounds bizarre since there are such commemoration ceremonies held there every two or three months since the early seventies. Mentioning just one such ceremony is like mentioning a particular July 4 under a picture of Independence Hall or the constitution of the USA. Could you please shorten the caption to inform on the monument only? The rest could be moved to the pic page instead.

 * Also, the caption under the pic with ruins of the Royal Castle is too enigmatic to be true. Why not just leave it as Ruins of the Royal Castle? All the history of the castle is described there, while a caption is not the place to state that The castle was heavily damaged in 1939, later in heavy fights during the Warsaw Uprising and after that was completely destroyed by German engineers. Let's describe the picture, not the history of the place. [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 22:21, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)

 * I've made the change to the caption for the Monument to small partisan. I'll leave any further tweaking of the captions on this page to others who know the subject well. We don't have to follow the caption guidence, however, I do believe that it is inline with what would be applied in professional publications, and good captions are good for the wikipedia. I will see if I can find somewhere I can post a request for a "tables" expert to see if they can improve the table. Richard Taylor 09:26, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Re-structuring
There have beem comments on the featured articles page that the TOC is to big. This is a big topic and flow is important so I worry about some of this, but I myself finally begin to think we have now reached the stage where the material we have justifies multiple pages.

I suggest that we have

 * warsaw uprising - (main page) - mostly summaries materials match pages below, but are written simply and minimally
 * warsaw uprising - build up - discusses the political situaiton leading up to the uprising and particularly areas of lack of knowledge
 * warsaw uprising - battle - all militry actions
 * warsaw uprising - capitulation - where the people went and what happened to the city
 * warsaw uprising - after effects - discusses the effects on the participants and on Poland
 * warsaw uprising - symbols and media presentation - (better title?) discusses discusison and censorship around warsaw uprising
 * List of military units in the Warsaw Uprising - list of units participating
 * (maybe) warsaw uprising - facts and figures - equivalent of appendixes

since most of the articles form a sequence it will be easy to keep flow by having a one follows the other navigation bar...

Mozzerati 21:43, 2004 Aug 8 (UTC)

 * Do you suggest moving most data into separate articles or just restructuring headers by limiting their number? Or both? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:01, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I suggest moving to a number of separate pages/articles using a summary style. Header restructuring should also be considered, but I think that alot of the pressure to do so will go away once the material is divided into separate pages.  An important aim is to get the minimum (required for educated understanding) facts across in the main article, so people who only have time or inclination to read that know the basics, but to have everything backed up in the main articles.  Mozzerati 20:05, 2004 Aug 9 (UTC)

 * Just to butt in here - if you are considering breaking up this article, you might want to use Dreyfus affair as an example of how to do it well (for the record, that is a featured article). →Raul654 20:17, Aug 9, 2004 (UTC)

 * Right. Do give it a try, Mozzerati. I don't *see* it yet though, but if that is what everybody likes, then let's do it. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 17:35, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I have begun.  See links from Template:Warsaw Uprising Mozzerati 22:34, 2004 Aug 10 (UTC)

 * I see now what you meant. The lead sections split off looks good so far, and I think we will be able to reduce the anchor box in the front as well. I don't think we will need a new special box for it though. Good job! I think that after you are done we can resubmit the article and finally be featured :) --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:29, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Restructuring Complete
The initial work for restructuring is now complete. A few edits which went in on material I had already copied elsewhere have been deleted (check uprising page history) and should be copied over. There needs to be verification that everything is preserved. I have been doing brutal sumamrisation and so it should be checked that I maintained facts correctly and didn't add anything wrong.

In summary, this seems to have helped quite a bit since there were several sections of repetition of the same material and some basic facts which weren't clearly stated (they were there, but the meaning was clear only if you already knew much about the uprising). This still needs some work and there are stub sections in the subsiduary articles, but I hope we are now close to featured article level.

Mozzerati 11:21, 2004 Aug 14 (UTC)

FAC objections
I am moving the old FAC discussion here and renewing the nomination. →Raul654 19:55, Aug 15, 2004 (UTC)

The 60th anniversary is this Sunday (1 Aug); it would be a good article to feature given the immense historical significance of the event. I've rewritten it so that it reads better, so I guess this should count as a self-nomination... -- ChrisO 19:18, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Support. Especially as we are working round the clock to improve this improved version on User:Halibutt/Warsaw_Uprising. ChrisO, if you add new stuff before 1 Aug plz do it on the project page (otherwise it may get lost), we will move it to offical Warsaw Uprising article in 24h or so. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 21:30, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Object - needs expansion all around. The dev version looks better, but even that is not good enough yet. Re-submit after the dev version goes live. --mav 03:57, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Agree with Mav. It does need expansion all around. If I can find the time, I'll try to expand it. 172 06:23, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * I do agree with your objections, we are expanding it. ATM most of the information research work is done, just a few more sections to do, but we could definetly use an English-speaker to check for language consistency and grammar mistakes. Hopefully we will make it for 1 August deadline. Keep your fingers crossed! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 17:50, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Support. Significantly expanded, with lots of pictures and stuff. Halibutt 19:22, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes, we have just finished our work. As much as anything on Wiki can be considered 'finished'. Please vote! --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 19:39, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Support. Looks good enough. --81.219.66.98 20:01, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Support. Looks fine. --24.175.90.218 20:56, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm voting 'pro' too. Just read this and ... wow. Everybody in Europe ought to read this.
 * support. After expansion, it's now a good article, and the last major anniversary when the survivors are still around.  Also it has some photos by me :-) Mozzerati 23:20, 2004 Jul 31 (UTC)
 * support. Much better than what it used to be and it's a very important topic, more people should read about it. roo72
 * Object. Good article, but I still have many remarks. 1) The infotable doesn't explain what the abbreviations (KIA etc.) mean. Also, the numbers are different from what is discussed later in the text. I would also like to see sources for the estimates, since these tend to vary wildly. Statements like "German MIA were never declared dead in order to lessen the total casualties rate." are quite bold and should be attributed, even if they are true. 2) There's still "editing notes" in the article, such as "I don't think we need that part here? It is repeated in above paragraph anyway." 3) I'm not quite sure we need the huge table of military formations in this article, especially since only the Polish formation are discussed in such details, while the German troops are listed briefly with "various support and backup units". This should be made into a separate list article. 4) Just yesterday I read an article about the Warsaw Uprising, and it mentions several things not discussed here. There is now a musem about the uprising, and the uprising wasn't remembered until after the fall of communism. Also, several Poles taking part in the uprising say that the uprising was doomed to fail from the beginning because of the differences in strength, and insufficient ammunition is also quoted as a major problem. The article only lists the lack of Soviet assistence as the only reason for failure. 5) I personally find the interchangable use of "Nazi" for "German" inaccurate. Poland was occupied by Germany, so I propose to use that term. 6) There's no mention of World War II in the lead section. 7) I don't think "General" (as in officer) needs to be abbreviated; if it is, it should be either Gen. or gen., but not both. 8) The writing is something confusing. E.g. I don't see what the sentence "Even after the war soldiers of Armia Krajowa who took part in the Warsaw Uprising were usually captured by the NKVD, interrogated and imprisoned, awaiting trials on various charges." has to do with the section ""Liberation" of the ruins". 9) Sectioning is non-standard. Double = should be used for main sections. 10) There are two separate sections dedicated to the Wola massacre; they should be combined. 11) What does the "W" in W hour stand for? Jeronimo 09:26, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I have fixed most of that and given the details on Talk:Warsaw_Uprising - I hope you are satisfied. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 11:08, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Aggree with ProKonsul: Germany before and during WWII was NAZI. The most of German command had to be nazi (forced) or were devoted nazis. The same is known about the soldiers, troops, privates etc. So the interchangable use of "Nazi" and "German" is at most acceptable. --217.99.240.131 11:28, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * self - correcting: all german command had to be nazi, whether forced or not. To be honest: there were several that only 'played' this. But in Warsaw Uprising and after, there were no one like that in Warsaw. --217.99.240.131 11:32, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I replied to your reactions at the talk page. For now, my objection still stands. Jeronimo 13:57, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * So did I. If more ppl agree with the few points I have decided not to change so far, they will be changed, but atm I think most of them are rather irrelevant (3,5,11). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:36, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I withdraw all but one of my objections, the others have been resolved nicely. I still think the list should be moved to a separate article, and summarized briefly. I could move the list myself, but I don't feel qualified to summarize it accurately. Also, I would recommend a copyedit by a native English speaker (unlike me). I spotted several errors this weekend, and there may be many more I missed. Jeronimo 06:47, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Ok, I have moved it into a separate article. This has also shortened the total lenghts of the main article by several kb, not a bad thing as well. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 20:13, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Sorry, one more objection: the "surrender picture" (which is quite well-known) hasn't got any source information, and may in fact be copyrighted. Jeronimo 06:48, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * The surrender picture comes from a Nazi German war chronicle. It is published in almost all Polish books on the Uprising without any copyright or author information. I think we can assume that since the Nazi Party has no successors, the image could be used on a fair use basis. I don't think any neo-nazi party will ever sue us. Halibutt 12:39, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, copyright belongs to the photographer, and is still valid, regardless of regime changes in Germany. Jeronimo 13:14, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Object - I agree with Jeronimo and add that the TOC is overwhelming and the article is a bit of a long read. I therefore suggest that some of the longer sections get summarized and the longer text put into one or more daughter articles. This will allow for further expansion of the sub-topic on the daughter article and it leaves a summary of the most important aspects of that subtopic in the survey article. The lead section is also very inadequate for an article this size (at least three good-sized paragraphs needed for anything longer that 30KB). --mav 07:50, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Please note that the battlebox is there and it won't be shorter so the lenght of the TOC seems irrelevant. If you really don't like it you can always hide it, but the battlebox will be long anyway, so there's not much sense in it. Also, IMO the longer the TOC is, the better, especially in long articles. We could of course divide the article onto three sections only, but that way the navigation would be much harder. Halibutt 12:31, Aug 3, 2004 (UTC)
 * A long TOC is an indication that too many subtopics are covered in the same article. Thus it should be split up and summaries left. See summary style. --mav 09:13, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * It's not the size of TOC, it's the overall size of the article that should be reduced. The article you mention says it all: some readers need just a quick summary (lead section), more people need a moderate amount of info (a set of multi-paragraph sections), and yet others need a lot of detail (links to full-sized separate articles). If so then even after copyediting parts of the article to their own articles the lenghth of TOC will not be shortened significantly. Personally, I find the long TOCs great since they allow the reader who usually reads only the header to jump exactly to where he or she wants to go. Of course we could merge all sections into two or three, but that would be a major mistake IMO. And I believe that this is a conflict between my view and your view, not between the current version of the article and the Featured article rules. Anyway, I will shorten the article a little bit. [[User:Halibutt|Halibutt]] 19:22, Aug 4, 2004 (UTC)
 * Condensing would eliminate the need for many of the subsections and thus reduce the size of the TOC. --mav 04:28, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * So what is the final verdict? We have 8 supports and 2 objections (two long by Mav, and pic copyright/section to be moved by Jeronimo, the latter have been answered/fixed already). --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 10:40, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * The TOC, lead section and image data issues are paramount due to being specifically mentioned in What is a featured article. --mav 06:42, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I think the objections are valid, and I'm inclined to leave this here until more effort has been made to resolve them (especially considering I *did* shorten the TOC and was reverted shortly thereafter). --Your humble featured article director 17:54, Aug 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * I have now done much more to fix the TOC; a complete restructuring into a series. I think people should now review it again as a fresh article and make comments (N.B. I may have introduced mistakes whilst summarising).  Overall, I think it looks good since there was quite alot of good material.  There could still be some expansion of the other pages in the series, but looking at other series which have their main article featured these are already quite complete. -Mozzerati

title: Talk:Warsaw Uprising/Archive 1


text: Category:10th century BC

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Category:10th century BC


text:
Rolls-Royce North America

Rolls-Royce North America, Inc. is a subsidiary of multinational corporation Rolls-Royce plc. The American unit operates under a Special Security Arrangement which allows it to work independently on some of the most sensitive United States defense programs despite its foreign ownership. It is involved principally with providing management direction and corporate support for all Rolls-Royce businesses and operations in North America, encompassing more than 7,000 employees at 66 locations across the U.S. and Canada. Its headquarters are in Reston, Virginia.

The most significant part of Rolls-Royce North America is "Rolls-Royce Corporation", formerly the Allison Engine Company. Other subsidiaries include:
 * Rolls-Royce Canada Limited
 * Rolls-Royce Marine North America Inc.
 * Rolls-Royce Defense Services, Inc.
 * Rolls-Royce North America Ventures, Inc.
 * Rolls-Royce Power Systems
 * MTU America

LibertyWorks
The Allison Advanced Development Company (also known as LibertyWorks) was established in 1995 as a result of Rolls-Royce plc's acquisition of the Allison Engine Company. As well as establishing a proxy board for Allison, Rolls-Royce was required to vest Allison's classified projects in Allison Advanced Development Company. In 2005, Rolls-Royce changed the name to Rolls-Royce North American Technologies.

Notable former and current employees

 * Samuel L. Higginbottom – former chairman, president and CEO; CEO of Eastern Air Lines
 * Marion Blakey – former president CEO; administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration

title: Rolls-Royce North America


text: Category:Ferries

title: Category:Ferries


text: Category:4th millennium BC

title: Category:4th millennium BC


text: Category:6th millennium BC

title: Category:6th millennium BC


text: Category:7th millennium BC

title: Category:7th millennium BC


text: Category:8th millennium BC

title: Category:8th millennium BC


text: Category:9th millennium BC

title: Category:9th millennium BC


text: Category:10th millennium BC

title: Category:10th millennium BC


text:
No Way Out (1987 film)

No Way Out is a 1987 American neo-noir action thriller film directed by Roger Donaldson and starring Kevin Costner, Gene Hackman, Will Patton, and Sean Young. Howard Duff, George Dzundza, Jason Bernard, Fred Thompson, and Iman appear in supporting roles. The film is based on the 1946 novel The Big Clock by Kenneth Fearing, previously filmed as The Big Clock (1948) and Police Python 357 (1976).

Plot
In a house near the Pentagon, Lieutenant Commander Tom Farrell of the Office of Naval Intelligence is under interrogation, asked how he came to meet Secretary of Defense David Brice.

Six months earlier, Farrell is invited to an inaugural ball by his college buddy Scott Pritchard, who introduces him to his boss, Secretary Brice. Farrell meets Susan Atwell, and they begin an affair just before he ships out for the Philippines. After Farrell risks his life to save a shipmate at sea, Brice hires him to act as his eyes and ears within the CIA. Returning to Washington, D.C. for his new post, Farrell reunites with his old landlord, and his friend Sam Hesselman, who works in the Pentagon's new computer center.

Atwell and Farrell's affair continues, even after she reveals she is also Brice's mistress. After they return from a romantic weekend, Brice visits unexpectedly, forcing Farrell to slip away. Suspicious that Atwell has another lover, an enraged Brice accidentally pushes her over an upstairs railing to her death. He goes to Pritchard, who removes all evidence of Brice from Atwell's apartment and discovers an indiscernible negative of a photograph she took of Farrell.

Pritchard suggests that Atwell's other lover could be conflated with a long-rumored KGB sleeper agent code-named "Yuri", who could be implicated in her death and killed by Pritchard's operatives, clearing Brice from suspicion. Army CID officers search Atwell's apartment, and Pritchard plants the photo negative among the evidence, which Hesselman attempts to have enhanced by computer, a process that may take days.

Realizing that Brice killed Atwell and Pritchard is covering up the evidence, Farrell assists the bogus investigation, aware that the physical evidence makes himself the prime suspect. He and Pritchard question Atwell's friend Nina, who pretends not to recognize Farrell but reveals that she knew Atwell was seeing Brice. Pritchard sends two assassins to eliminate her, but Farrell intervenes and warns Nina.

Searching for real evidence to implicate Brice, Farrell investigates a jewel box from Morocco that Brice gave Atwell; as foreign gifts must be registered with the State Department, Farrell has Hesselman "raid" the computerized registry. He later convinces Hesselman to delay the photo enhancement by confiding to him that he is the person in the photo, that he was in love with Atwell, and that Brice killed her.

Credit card statements lead the CID to two witnesses who can identify Atwell's mystery lover; one of them spots Farrell at a distance, confirming to the investigators that Yuri is inside the Pentagon, and a room-by-room search begins. Farrell informs Hesselman of Brice's guilt and the incriminating gift, and eludes the search by climbing into a ceiling vent. Concerned, Hesselman tells Pritchard of Farrell's suspicions and his relationship with Atwell, and Pritchard shoots him dead.

Pursued by Pritchard's assassins, Farrell reaches Brice's office and confronts him with a printout of the gift registry. Pritchard prepares to implicate Farrell as Yuri for Atwell's and Hesselman's deaths, but Brice improvises a different story to buy Farrell's silence: that Pritchard, who is infatuated with Brice, killed Atwell out of jealousy. Devastated and betrayed, Pritchard shoots himself, and Brice tells the investigators that Pritchard was Yuri, concluding the search. Farrell sends the printout to the Director of the CIA, Brice's political rival, and leaves as the finished photograph reveals him as Atwell's lover.

Sitting at Atwell's grave, Farrell is picked up by a pair of operatives and interrogated at the house. He is confronted by his landlord, revealed to be his handler — they are all Soviet agents, and Farrell actually is "Yuri", a deep-cover spy raised as an American from a young age to serve as a high-level mole. Having fulfilled his mission, Farrell is warned to return to the Soviet Union, but he refuses, revealing that he genuinely loved Susan Atwell and is finished being a spy. His handler allows him to depart, believing he will eventually return, and Farrell drives away to an uncertain fate.

Writing
The screenplay is based on Kenneth Fearing's 1946 novel The Big Clock.

Filming
Exteriors were shot on location in Baltimore, Annapolis, Arlington, Washington, DC, and Auckland, New Zealand, between April and June 1986. The film is dedicated to the memory of its director of photography John Alcott, who died after principal photography had wrapped in July 1986, over a year prior to the film's eventual release.

Music
The film features original music by Academy Award-winning composer Maurice Jarre. The title song, "No Way Out", was performed by Paul Anka.

Box office
The film debuted at number two at the US box office after Stakeout with $4.3 million. The film's budget was an estimated $15 million; its total U.S. gross was $35.5 million.

Critical response
On Rotten Tomatoes, the film holds an approval rating of 92% based on 48 reviews, with an average rating of 7.4/10. The website's critics consensus states: "Roger Donaldson's modern spin on the dense, stylish suspense films of the 1940s features fine work from Gene Hackman and Sean Young, as well as the career-making performance that made Kevin Costner a star." On Metacritic, the film has a weighted average score of 77 out of 100, based on 18 critics, indicating "generally favorable reviews". Audiences polled by CinemaScore gave the film an average grade of "B+" on an A+ to F scale.

Roger Ebert gave the film 4 out of 4 stars, calling it "truly labyrinthine and ingenious." Richard Schickel of Time wrote, "Viewers who arrive at the movie five minutes late and leave five minutes early will avoid the setup and payoff for the preposterous twist that spoils this lively, intelligent remake of 1948's The Big Clock." Desson Thomson of The Washington Post wrote, "The film makes such good use of Washington and builds suspense so well that it transcends a plot bordering on ridiculous."

title: No Way Out (1987 film)


text: Category:Millennia

title: Category:Millennia


text:
Sony Ericsson P910

The Sony Ericsson P910 is a mobile phone by Sony Ericsson introduced in 2004 and the successor of the Sony Ericsson P900. The P910 has a full QWERTY keyboard on the back of the flip (the flip can also be removed completely, allowing for a 'traditional' PDA form-factor). The biggest change from the P900 to the P910 is that the P910 supports Memory Stick PRO Duo and the phone's internal memory has been upped from 16 MB to 64 MB. Although Memory Stick PRO Duo comes in larger capacities, the maximum supported by the P910i is 2 GB. It is powered by an ARM9 processor clocked at 156 MHz and runs the Symbian OS with the UIQ graphical user interface. The touchscreen displays 262,144 colours (an 18-bit colour depth), as opposed to the P900's 65,536 (16-bit). It comes in three versions:

 * P910i (GSM 900/1800/1900)
 * P910c (GSM 900/1800/1900 for China mainland)
 * P910a (GSM 850/1800/1900 for North America and Latin America)

One of the key aspects of the P910 is its ability to input text via several methods: multi-tap and T9 text input using the numerical keypad, hand-writing recognition with the pre-installed Jot-Pro software and touchscreen, virtual keyboard on screen and the new QWERTY keyboard on the inside of the flip.

Other enhancements (compared to the P900) include support for HTML browsing, a new numerical keypad with larger keys and a slightly changed outer casing.

Its closest competitors are the palmOne Treo 650, and the Nokia 9500 Communicator. Other competitors include several PDA-phones powered by Windows and manufactured by Taiwan-based HTC.

Sony Ericsson released the successor to the P910, the P990, in 2006.

Specifications

 * 208x320 screen resolution
 * 262,144 color touchscreen LCD
 * UIQ 2.1 based on Symbian OS 7
 * 115 x 57 x 24 mm in size
 * GSM P910i (Europe): 900 MHz/1800 MHz/1900 MHz, P910a (North America): 850 MHz/1800 MHz/1900 MHz

Business

 * Calendar
 * Contacts
 * Jotter
 * Messages
 * Pdf+ reader
 * Phone
 * Quicksheet
 * Quickword
 * Tasks

Tools

 * Calculator
 * Control Panel
 * Demo
 * File Manager
 * GPRS Data Log
 * Remote Sync
 * Sound Recorder
 * Storage Wizard
 * Time

title: Sony Ericsson P910


text:
Oklahoma Indian Welfare Act

The Oklahoma Indian Welfare Act of 1936 (also known as the Thomas-Rogers Act) is a United States federal law that extended the 1934 Wheeler-Howard or Indian Reorganization Act to include those tribes within the boundaries of the state of Oklahoma. The purpose of these acts were to rebuild Indian tribal societies, return land to the tribes, enable tribes to rebuild their governments, and emphasize Native culture. These Acts were developed by John Collier, Commissioner of Indian Affairs from 1933 to 1945, who wanted to change federal Indian policy from the "twin evils" of allotment and assimilation, and support Indian self-government.

The Thomas-Rogers Act was adopted in order to enable Native American tribes in Oklahoma to rebuild governments that had been dissolved in order to prepare the territories for Oklahoma being admitted as a state in the Union in 1907. As part of this effort also to encourage Native American assimilation, Indian land title was extinguished in Indian Territory by the break-up and allotment of communal lands. Under the Dawes and Curtis acts, the communal land of the former reservations in Oklahoma was:
 * allotted to individual Indian Tribal members with 160 acres per household (too little in many areas to support subsistence farming because of poor conditions)
 * held in trust by the United States for the benefit of tribal members.
 * What the government determined to be "surplus" was sold off or otherwise distributed, including to non-Natives, in a series of land runs.

In addition to surplus lands being sold, many Native Americans lost their allotments to speculators and unscrupulous businessmen. The Native Americans suffered major losses of land in Oklahoma. In addition, the disruption of their societies and cultures resulted in considerable breakdown of their worlds.

Major points of the act

 * United States Secretary of the Interior is authorized to obtain good agricultural and grazing lands (including Indian lands) to be held in trust for the Indians.
 * Land held by the United States is free from any and all taxes except Oklahoma Gross Production Tax from oil and gas produced from the land.
 * Where Indian lands are sold, the Secretary of the Interior shall show preference to obtain those lands for the use by Native Americans.
 * Any recognized tribe residing within Oklahoma may receive a charter of incorporation from the Secretary of Interior, and shall have the right to self-determination, including the right to make their own bylaws.
 * Any group of 10 Tribal Members may receive a Charter of Cooperative Association (for specific purposes) from the Secretary of Interior; laws of the State of Oklahoma govern for those issues not covered by federal law or regulations issued by the Secretary.
 * Act does not relate to Osage County, Oklahoma (does not affect the Osage Nation, which retained ownership of its own land)

As issues arose, Department of Interior officials sought the opinion of its Solicitor General about the effects of this legislation. This correspondence is part of the agency records. As the Five Civilized Tribes began to reorganize and set up new governments, the question arose as to whether they could change their membership rules, specifically, to exclude the Freedmen. Each of the tribes had been required under terms of new 1866 treaties to extend citizenship to their Freedmen. In 1941, the Solicitor General noted that Congress had approved the law that enabled tribes to reconstitute their governments and, by extension, enabled them to create new constitutions and rules. It said that the tribes could pass new constitutions with new membership rules that limited membership to persons of Indian descent. While some of the tribes resisted providing Freedmen with full tribal benefits, they did not generally take action to exclude them as members until the late 20th century, at a time of increasing assertion of tribal sovereignty. Freedmen descendants have filed suit against the Cherokee and Creek tribes over such exclusion.

title: Oklahoma Indian Welfare Act


text:
User:Eestevez

Erick Estevez I discovered Wikipedia in August, 2004. I consider myself a history enthusiast who experiences great joy in exploring the many dramas in human history, our conflicts, wars, agreements, the great struggles that have forged the earth of today. I believe this to be a good starting point in the evaluation of ourselves as individuals, as a nation (wherever you might be from), and as a world community. Are we making the same mistakes? Have we learned anything from our past?

 * "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it". - George Santayana

 * "The man who views the world at fifty, the same as he did at twenty, has wasted thirty years of his life." - Muhammad Ali

 * "History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again.... " - Maya Angelou

title: User:Eestevez


text:
User talk:Luxinterior~enwiki

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Hope you like it here, and stick around.

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 * Try the Tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the test area.
 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk
 * Follow the Simplified Ruleset
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Remember Neutral point of view
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck!

Your account will be renamed
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title: User talk:Luxinterior~enwiki


text:
Broadband over power lines

Broadband over power lines (BPL) is a method of power-line communication (PLC) that allows relatively high-speed digital data transmission over public electric power distribution wiring. BPL uses higher frequencies, a wider frequency range, and different technologies compared to other forms of power-line communications to provide high-rate communication over longer distances. BPL uses frequencies that are part of the radio spectrum allocated to over-the-air communication services; therefore, the prevention of interference to, and from, these services is a very important factor in designing BPL systems.

There are two main categories of BPL: in-house and access. In-house BPL is broadband access within a building or structure using the electric lines of the structure to provide the network infrastructure. Access BPL is the use of electrical transmission lines to deliver broadband to the home. Access BPL is considered a viable alternative to Cable or DSL to provide the 'final mile' of broadband to end users.

History
BPL is based on PLC technology developed as far back as 1914 by the US telecommunications company AT&T. In 1990s, BPL emerged as a means of leveraging the pervasiveness of the power grid to deliver high-speed broadband communications. The aim was to expand internet access to areas where traditional wired broadband solutions like DSL or cable were not readily available or economically viable.

In order to achieve high bandwidth levels, BPL operates at higher frequencies than traditional power line communications, typically in the range between 2 and 80 MHz. The modulation techniques of BPL are Frequency Division Multiplexing (FDM) or Orthogonal Frequency Division Multiplexing (OFDM), which are both superior to Spread Spectrum or Narrowband for spectral efficiency, robustness against channel distortions, and the ability to adapt to channel changes. Electricity companies have been bundling radio frequency on the same line as the electrical current to monitor the performance of their own power grids for years. There have been attempts to implement access BPL, or the provision of internet services to customers via the grid. The prospect of BPL was predicted in 2004 to possibly motivate DSL and cable operators to serve rural communities.

More recently, decarbonization is leading to a significant increase in generation plants, storage devices, and consumers at lower voltage levels, causing capacity issues in distribution grids. Traditional central control becomes not feasible for lower levels due to the vast number of units. Energy utility companies such as E.ON, starts to adopt BPL as a key communication technology to enable real-time, high-speed decentralized control of the grid.

How BPL works
Broadband Over Power Lines (BPL) works as specialized modems to convert data into signals and transmit alongside power lines, This process ensures consistent broadband connectivity through demodulation, data distribution, and interference mitigation.

 * 1) Modulation: BPL technology utilizes specific modems to transform digital data into signals that are suitable for power line transmission. Various modulation techniques, such as frequency division multiplexing (FDM) or orthogonal frequency division multiplexing (OFDM), are employed. These techniques allow the combination of data signals with the power signals on the electrical lines.
 * 2) Injection: After modulating the digital data, BPL modems inject the signals to the power lines at substations or distribution points. These data signals merge with the pre-existing alternating current (AC) power signals, leveraging the existing infrastructure without the need for extra cables.
 * 3) Signal Propagation: The injected BPL signals propagate through the power lines, utilizing them as transmission mediums. These signals travel along the electrical wiring, making their way to the destination points, such as homes or businesses. The power lines act as conduits for the BPL signals to reach their intended receivers.
 * 4) Reception: At the consumer end, BPL modems receive the signals from the power lines. These modems are typically connected to routers or networking devices, allowing the distribution of the internet connection to multiple devices within the premises. The BPL modems serve as the interface between the power lines and the local area network (LAN).
 * 5) Demodulation: The BPL modems demodulate the received signals, separating the data packets from the power signals. This process involves extracting the original digital data from the modulated carrier signals. Demodulation allows the recovery of the transmitted information for further processing.
 * 6) Data Distribution: Once demodulated, the data packets are forwarded to the connected routers or networking devices. These devices handle the distribution of the internet connection to various devices within the premises, such as computers, smartphones, or smart home devices. The router or networking devices act as gateways for data transmission and reception.
 * 7) Repeaters and Amplifiers: In larger BPL deployments, repeaters or amplifiers may be installed along the power lines to boost the signal strength and extend coverage. These devices ensure that the BPL signals maintain sufficient quality and reach distant locations. Repeaters receive and regenerate the BPL signals, enabling their propagation over longer distances without significant degradation.
 * 8) Interference Mitigation: BPL systems need incorporate measures to manage interference for consistent data transmission. Specific filtering methods are utilized to address radio frequency interference (RFI) associated with BPL signals. These filters aim to limit BPL's influence on adjacent radio communications. Compliance with established regulations and industry norms ensures proper interference mitigation measures.
 * 9) Quality and Reliability: BPL system performance is influenced by several elements. These include the condition of the electrical wiring, proximity to BPL equipment, and potential signal interference. Maintaining high-quality wiring and a suitable signal-to-noise ratio is crucial for effective BPL functioning.

Key characteristics of BPL

 * 1) Utilization of existing infrastructure: One of the key characteristics of BPL is its capacity to utilize existing power lines. This avoids the demand for significant construction or additional cable installation, positioning it as an economical option for expanding broadband coverage.
 * 2) High-speed data communication: BPL technology enables high-speed data communication over existing power lines, offering comparable speeds to traditional wired broadband technologies like DSL or cable. This allows for efficient transmission of large amounts of data, supporting bandwidth-intensive applications.
 * 3) Wide coverage: The existing power grid covers a vast area, making BPL capable of reaching homes, businesses, and other locations that may be difficult to connect with other wired broadband technologies.
 * 4) Flexibility and scalability: BPL enables flexibility and scalability in terms of extending network coverage. Additional modems can be added at distribution points or substations to expand the reach of the BPL network. This adaptability allows for gradual expansion as demand increases or new areas require connectivity.
 * 5) Potential for smart grid integration: BPL can facilitate the integration of smart grid applications, enabling bidirectional communication between power utilities and consumers. It enables energy efficiency management, real-time monitoring, and the implementation of demand-response systems, leading to enhanced grid resilience and energy conservation.
 * 6) Coexistence with power signals: BPL operates alongside the power signals on the same power lines. It utilizes modulation techniques to ensure that the data signals do not interfere with the power grid's normal functioning. This coexistence minimizes the need for dedicated infrastructure and simplifies implementation.

Implementation challenges
Power lines were not designed for data transmission, they were created to deliver AC power at 50 to 60Hz. If Broadband data is transmitted at different frequencies, then the data and electricity can travel in the same wire, however several obstacles have to be overcome to enable the high-speed and long-distance transmission of data on existing power lines.

Deployment of BPL has illustrated a number of fundamental challenges, the primary one being that power lines are inherently a very noisy environment. Every time a device turns on or off, it introduces a pop or click into the line. Switching power supplies often introduce noisy harmonics into the line. And unlike coaxial cable or twisted-pair, the wiring has no inherent noise rejection.

The second major issue is electromagnetic compatibility (EMC). The system was expected to use frequencies of 10 to 30 MHz in the high frequency (HF) range, used for decades by military, aeronautical, amateur radio, and shortwave broadcasters. Power lines are unshielded and will act as antennas for the signals they carry, and they will cause interference to high frequency radio communications and broadcasting. In 2007, the NATO Research and Technology Organization released a report which concluded that widespread deployment of BPL may have a "possible detrimental effect upon military HF radio communications."

Deployments
There have been many attempts worldwide to implement access BPL, all which have indicated that BPL is not viable as a means of delivering broadband Internet access. This is because of two problems: limited reach, and low bandwidth which do not come close to matching ADSL, Wi-Fi, and even 3G mobile. World major providers have either limited their BPL deployments to low-bandwidth connected equipment via smart grids, or ceased BPL operations altogether.

Australia saw trials of access BPL between 2004 and 2007; but no active access BPL deployments appear to remain there.

In the UK, the BBC published the results of tests to detect interference from BPL installations.

In the US, in October 2004, the US Federal Communications Commission adopted rules to facilitate the deployment of "Access BPL", the marketing term for Internet access service over power lines.

The technical rules are more liberal than those advanced by the US national amateur radio organization, the American Radio Relay League (ARRL), and other spectrum users, but include provisions that require BPL providers to investigate and correct any interference they cause.

One service was announced in 2004 for Ohio, Kentucky, and Indiana by Current Communications but they left the BPL business in 2008.

On August 3, 2006, FCC adopted a memorandum opinion and an order on broadband over power lines, giving the go-ahead to promote broadband service to all Americans. The order rejected calls from aviation, business, commercial, amateur radio and other sectors of spectrum users to limit or prohibit deployment until further study was completed. FCC chief Kevin Martin said that BPL "holds great promise as a ubiquitous broadband solution that would offer a viable alternative to cable, digital subscriber line, fiber, and wireless broadband solutions".

In the US, International Broadband Electric Communications (IBEC), which had an ambitious plan to provide access BPL in the US, ceased BPL operations in January 2012.

On January 19, 2018, E.ON, the German multinational electric utility company serving approx. 48 million customers across different countries [*], decided to integrate BPL into their communication strategy, specifically for the smart metering communication infrastructure within the low voltage segment of their grid. E.ON chose Corinex as the solution provider for the initial two years of the deployment. The initial deployment was several ten thousand repeaters and headends, providing secure communication for a couple of hundred thousand households. Corinex GridValue energy management system based on the IBM Tivoli platform was selected to manage the network.

Standards
Several standards are evolving for BPL technology including those of the IEEE, HomePlug Powerline Alliance (defunct), and PRIME Alliance.

IEEE related to BPL technology

 * IEEE 643-2004 "Guide for Power-Line Carrier Applications" is a standard for communication over the transmission line network (above 69kV).
 * IEEE P1675 "Standard for Broadband over Power Line Hardware" is a working group working on hardware installation and safety issues.
 * IEEE P1775 "Powerline Communication Equipment - Electromagnetic Compatibility (EMC) Requirements - Testing and Measurement Methods" is a working group focused on PLC equipment, electromagnetic compatibility requirements, and testing and measurement methods.
 * IEEE P1901-2020 "IEEE Standard for Broadband over Power Line Networks: Medium Access Control and Physical Layer Specifications" is a working group for delivering broadband over power lines. The aim is to define medium access control and physical layer specifications for all classes of BPL devices - from long distance connections to those within subscriber premises.

Failure scenarios
There are many ways in which the communication signal may have error introduced into it. Interference, cross chatter, some active devices, and some passive devices all introduce noise or attenuation into the signal. When error becomes significant the devices controlled by the unreliable signal may fail, become inoperative, or operate in an undesirable fashion.

 * 1) Interference: Interference from nearby systems can cause signal degradation as the modem may not be able to determine a specific frequency among many signals in the same bandwidth.
 * 2) Signal degradation by active devices: Devices such as relays, transistors, and rectifiers create noise in their respective systems, increasing the likelihood of signal degradation. Arc-fault circuit interrupter (AFCI) devices, required by some recent electrical codes for living spaces, may also attenuate the signals.
 * 3) Signal attenuation by passive devices: Transformers and DC–DC converters attenuate the input frequency signal almost completely. "Bypass" devices become necessary for the signal to be passed on to the receiving node. A bypass device may consist of three stages, a filter in series with a protection stage and coupler, placed in parallel with the passive device.

title: Broadband over power lines


text:
Samedi de rire

Samedi de rire was a Radio-Canada sketch comedy show in Quebec that aired from 1985 to 1989. Cast members of the series included Yvon Deschamps and Normand Brathwaite. The québécois analogue to Saturday Night Live, the title is itself a clever play on words: it literally means "Saturday of laughs", but is phonetically pronounced similar to ça me dit de rire, or "I feel like laughing".

title: Samedi de rire


text:
BPL Group

British Physical Laboratories, doing business as BPL Ltd., is an Indian electronics company. It makes consumer electronics and health care equipment. It was founded in 1963 in Palakkad, Kerala, and is headquartered at Bangalore, Karnataka.

History
British Physical Laboratories India Pvt. Ltd. was founded in 1963, during the Licence Raj, by T. P. G. Nambiar in Palakkad, Kerala, as a company for manufacturing hermetically sealed precision panel meters for the defence forces. Nambiar had worked in the United Kingdom and United States, and when he returned to India, he desired to create a company that manufactured high-quality electronic products, and he wanted to make BPL a household name. The initial products were precision measuring instruments such as hermetic sealed panel meters for Bharat Electronics as a subcontract for Indian Army. The newly-founded company was joint venture with the British company of the same name.

Then BPL expanded its medical product ranges to include electrocardiographs and patient-monitoring systems. After the 1982 Asian Games, BPL expanded its range further and manufactured colour televisions and video cassette recorders, and later refrigerators, batteries and other consumer electrical equipment.

The company headquarters was moved to Dynamic House, Church Street, Bangalore. From medical electronics, it expanded into consumer electronics, telecommunications, soft energy and electronic components.

1980s
From 1980 onwards, when the industrial licensing was relaxed, BPL began manufacturing televisions and telecommunications equipment, demonstrating its potential and future business area. It began collaborating with the Japanese Sanyo Electric Company in the early 1980s with a technology-transfer agreement. In the early 1990s, after globalisation and liberalization of the Indian economy, competition entered the market. BPL retained its strong presence and growth rate. During the late 1990s, the company's annual revenue peaked at inr 43000000000.

BPL concentrated on importing technology, improving product quality, innovations and manufacturing of electronic products. In late 1980s, BPL had metamorphosed from an entrepreneurial venture, into India's biggest consumer electronics & telecommunication company.

Following economic liberalisation in India in 1991, BPL faced increased competition from South Korean companies LG and Samsung. Internal disputes within the controlling family took away attention from external threats, and the company's fortunes declined. By 2004, BPL and Sanyo were facing serious financial problems due to intense competition in the global electronics market. In 2005, the companies announced a joint-venture, and BPL transferred its colour television business, then worth US$80 million, to the new venture.

BPL was restructured with a focus on energy, healthcare, consumer electronics and home security systems. In 2015, BPL partnered with Flipkart as an online retailer. In 2016, BPL launched new LED TV's like 32 inch and 40 inch etc with a very economical price through E-commerce websites like Flipkart and Amazon.

Performance
BPL Ltd has reported a net loss of inr 347600000 in the second quarter of fiscal 2005-06, on gross sales of inr 347100000. Operating losses were at inr 139100000.

Gross sales were inr 644500000 in the corresponding period during 2004-05 while net loss was at inr 415900000.00000006.

According to the company, the promoters have brought in inr 500800000 as contemplated in the corporate debt restructuring scheme. The amount was to pay statutory liabilities, unsecured, pressing creditors, dealers, credit balances, employee dues and working capital requirements, in part.

In respect to the auditors' qualification of the company's accounts for the period ended 31 March 2005, about undisputed amounts payable in respect of income-tax (inr 44400000.00000001), dividend tax (inr 25099999.999999996), wealth tax (inr 1100000), TDS (inr 67700000) and customs duty (inr 16800000).

The balance in customs duty would be paid once the financial restructuring is completed and normalcy of operations is achieved, according to the company.

Joint venture with Sanyo
The BPL Group and Japanese electronics major Sanyo Electric Company Ltd formally started their 50:50 joint venture.

The partners, who had shared a long-standing relationship since 1982, had been off the market for about two years, going through some tough times. In the year 2006, they decided to get back in action together to regain lost market share.

While unveiling the Joint Venture's plans, Sanyo-BPL Pvt Ltd Chairman and Chief Executive Officer, Ajit G Nambiar, said the company expected to post revenues of around inr 20000000000 by 2009 and lead the market in consumer electronics and white goods in five years.

However, they decided to market their brands separately with BPL focusing on the volume segment while Sanyo brand positioned itself as the value driver.

Besides, Sanyo also planned to use India as its sourcing base and has already started sourcing slim TVs from India. It also expected India to contribute five per cent of its global revenues from its operations in India.

In May 2007 after the failure of Sanyo BPL venture. The attrition rate in Sanyo BPL was 70%. BPL concentrated 100% on Healthcare Business group which has its own manufacturing of electromedical equipment such as electrocardiography apparatus and patient monitors.

BPL Medical Technologies
BPL Medical Technologies was spun off into a separate company in 2013. In May 2013, Goldman Sachs purchased a 49% stake in the new company for inr 1100000000.

title: BPL Group


text:
Chamberlain, Saskatchewan

Chamberlain (2016 population: ) is a village in the Canadian province of Saskatchewan within the Rural Municipality of Sarnia No. 221 and Census Division No. 6.

Chamberlain is notable for being the last community between Regina and Saskatoon that Highway 11, the Louis Riel Trail, still passes through. The highway narrows to two lanes and its speed limit is reduced from 110 km/h to 50 km/h. A number of small restaurants and gas stations benefit from having traffic pass through at slow speed. The village is only about half an hour drive from Moose Jaw, an hour from Regina and one and a half hours from Saskatoon. Highway 11 has been realigned around all other communities along its route.

History
Chamberlain incorporated as a village on January 31, 1911.

Demographics
In the 2021 Census of Population conducted by Statistics Canada, Chamberlain had a population of $96$ living in $44$ of its $52$ total private dwellings, a change of NaN% from its 2016 population of $90$. With a land area of 0.68 km2, it had a population density of in 2021.

In the 2016 Census of Population, the Village of Chamberlain recorded a population of living in  of its  total private dwellings, a NaN% change from its 2011 population of. With a land area of 0.7 km2, it had a population density of in 2016.

title: Chamberlain, Saskatchewan


text: Category:People's Liberation Army Air Force