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Talk:Greyhound racing

Inhumane treatment
Something should be included about the often inhumane treatment of greyhounds, praticularly in spain, as described here: http://www.greyhound-rescue-scotland.org.uk/Greyhound_Facts/body_greyhound_facts.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 00:22, 16 August 2004 (talk)

 * Please be carefull before you include wrong info in wikipedia! The so called "FACT" is full of nonsense. Please go to Spain and verify it yourself.
 * True is: Spain treats animals very badly. Galgos (a local dog breed very similar to greyhound) are bred by local farmers are generally speaking treated VERY badly.
 * True is: Spain imports Greyhounds to race them at the track. These greyhounds are kept and handled very good for Spain standards. Their life is comparable with Greys in the USA. However for US kennels climate controlled kennels are standard which is not the case in Spain. Gunnarvb — Preceding unsigned comment added by 09:12, 14 December 2004 (talk)

 * The truth as I've heard it from people doing rescue in Spain is that they get BOTH Galgos and Greyhounds in terrible conditions into the rescue. Sure they owners deny it, but the people doing the rescue get Greyhounds in bad shape, there is a simple disconnect here, someone (or everyone) is lying, and I tend to find the people with pictures are lying less often then the people with the big check books on almost any issue (note: this theory doesn't apply to news agencies, nor is it absolute). --Ahc 21:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

US States
Why were the US States removed from this article? I wish to know. Greyhound racing is not available in all states of the US. -- AllyUnion (talk) 06:24, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure why they were removed. Feel free to put them back if you don't get a good answer.  I would suggest that the list of locations could use a little more text around it.  Probably it's own section seperate from the history section.  The one arguement that will need to be addressed in replacing the list is make sure that it's not making the article any more US-centric then it already is. --Ahc 19:08, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * IHMO the list of 5 US-states was incomplete misleading information. There are ~ 500 greyhound tracks worldwide. <30 tracks are in the USA in 15 states. Australia and Ireland have both the same number of tracks as the USA - England even has more. If you start listing the US states then you should list the Australian states as well. Before we list the US states we should list all Countries which have Greyhound tracks. Gunnarvb — Preceding undated comment added 09:06, 14 December 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure it's a bad idea to break out where in each country (at least those with limits) racing is currently active. This can provide clarity for some countries, for instance my memory of 15 US states number is that there are 15 where it COULD be legal to race them since their is horse racing already, but only 7 or 8 that have currently active tracks.  I don't seem a problem extending this list to provide more complete information. --Ahc 14:24, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * IHMO 15 US states have tracks But as mentioned there are around 500 tracks worldwide. The complete overview will will not fit on one page. The best place for looking these things up are decicated websites like [, www.agtoa.com] for the US or [, www.greyhound-data.com/stadia.htm] for the worldwide overview Gunnarvb — Preceding undated comment added 16:54, 14 December 2004 (UTC)

 * Thank you for the links I stand corrected. 47 tracks in 15 states (the industry pages seem to count 48, but they include one in Mexico for some reason).m  For those that are intersted the list is: AZ, AL, FL, IA, CO, TX, WI, NH, RI, KS, MA, WV, AR, CT, OR.
 * To be clear I didn't mean to suggest the article should list all 48 US tracks, and therefore all 500 track worldwide. I meant to suggest the inclussion of this list of 15 states (we could format to keep is small if we needed).  Along with similar lists (as they are sensible) for other countries.  The reason this is relavent in the US is that there are only a few states beyond these 15 that could even ever add tracks without a change in federal law which currently prohibits adding animal gambling in states that don't already have a history of it.  Of those remaining states some would require changes in state law to allow dog racing (maybe all, I don't know many details about this), so would be a big deal to add or remove a state.  I don't know what kinds of limitations the industry faces in other countries. --Ahc 19:24, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Greyhound racing is legal in the whole Europe. But not all European Countries allow betting on Greys. Technically it would be possible to aquire a betting license everywhere. But this is complecated as the Horse betting industry tries to prevent this in some countries. Gunnarvb 20:05, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * To me that seems like important information. But if I'm alone here, I'll shut up about it. --Ahc 15:27, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Not to be US-centric or anything, but I think it should be worth mentioning where Greyhound racing is active in the US. Speaking as a Californian, one does not hear about one going to the races to bet on a greyhound. -- AllyUnion (talk) 10:51, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * There are only 7 states that specifically outlaw greyhound racing in the U.S. Any other state, you would just need a license from the state.  If the state has no gambling regulatory agency to issue such a license, it would be difficult to open a track without some guidelines being drawn by the state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.99.31.129 (talk) 01:01, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Myth and trues
Hi, I'm devoted to improve the Greyhound live. I'm working in adoption since some time.

Yes, the greyhound live is often hard. Some of the cruel stories we hear about Greyhound live are true. But many stories are not true and are over exaggerated. I think its importan for us not to spread rumors on Wikiepedia. The story about Spain for example is a mix of facts and lies.

I would love to help out with some fatcs, but I don't want to edit the Wikipedia page without discussing this first with the other editor here. What will be the best way to do this?

Please feel write to email me at gunnar@greyhound-data.com

Cheers Gunnarvb — Preceding undated comment added 09:53, 14 December 2004 (UTC)
 * Feel free to edit the page, as long as the goal is to improve the included information. We can always take out the chages.  Of late the Greyhound articles have been pretty active, so mistakes by any of us don't sit around long.  --Ahc 14:24, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This article is very biased in favor of the Greyhound Racing industry. It needs to bring out some info about this corrupt and cruel "industry". Rogerd 21:57, 7 May 2005 (UTC)

 * The rather disjointed discussion you'll find above, is the leftovers from an attempted to find a nuetural balance between those that want to make it highly biased one way or the other. That experience leads me to want to treat this issue with caution.  Can I suggest you highlite specific changes you want to see made, and we'll can discuss them a little first?  We certainly want to keep the bias minimized, but I'd rather avoid the contensious nature of the last discussion on the issue. --Ahc 13:57, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Ireland UK clarification
Could someone please define trainer as used in this context
 * In Ireland and the UK dogs are usually kept at a trainer.

I think it would be helpful to create a more complete discription to match the US discription. --Ahc 14:24, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Medical treatment
I felt that we needed to correct one sentence claiming "that Greyhound are generally medically badly treated in the USA". While this might have happend this is of course not the general case. Greyhound are an investment. An above average running racing greyhound is often worth over $10,000 Top greys can cost over $100,000. Every sane person will properly vaccinate and heathcare them. Not vaccinating the kenneled greyhound could risk the break out of a disease which would risk loosing the valuable greyhounds and which would risk that the races business would end on this track. As the track make millions on greyhound betting, and the dogs are needed to run the business, they have very strick health regulations. BTW Proper vaccinating and heathcare is regulated by law in the USA. Gunnarvb 18:31, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I'll spend some time pulling together links about this later today. But I will state here that your economic assumption is wrong.  The only economic reason to vaccinate the dogs is if the risk of lost income from the dogs is greater then the cost of vaccination, since the risked income the dog is far lower then the dog's actual monetary value that is only a part of the equation when calculated properly. You might provide proper care to a pup (or at least better care), but a 2 year old or 3 year old are going to have dropped in value significantly and no longer be worth the same level of care. --Ahc 19:31, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * All dogs are vaccinated - there are regulations requiring this. Vaccinating costs pennies but having an single outbreak out kennel cough cost a track millions. Mind that every track has at least one vet belonging to this track. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)

 * Therefore warms and tick dieses are lower priorities since they are not likely to kill a dog while still racing and better care can be provided if the dog proves it worth as a breeder. --Ahc 19:31, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * You are right flees are not really problem but worms are. Worms will reduces the racebility of a dog significantly. As the owner and trainers of a dog get the winning money of the dog they have a fincancial intrest to deworm their dogs. Deworming a dog costs 2 dollars a year. Even a low grade dog can usually win over 100 dollars a week. The biggest heath risk of dogs does not come from not vaccionation but from dopiong the dogs. BTW: every track has to make doping tests. A doping test costs aroun 100 dollar per race. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)
 * Sure, but the risk in doping is the the gambling establishment first, therefore it's worth a great deal to prevent it, it could undermine the whole industry fundimentally, the health of the dogs is irrelenvent. If it really was a few bad owners there wouldn't be a problem worth talking about. --Ahc 21:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes vaccination is required in the US but I don't think it's regulated (implies someone actually sets verifiable standards for compliance); laws only help when properly enforced. --Ahc 19:31, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Its regulated by the NGA and AGTOA. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)
 * So it's self regulation not outside regulation? Anyway to see compliance reports that anyone knows about? --Ahc 21:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * If treatment is properly regulated I'd love to see information about it so I could learn how that process works. Furthermore, you failed to address the question about the dog's teeth, which (to my understanding) is more common. --Ahc 19:31, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Teeth problem are common but not mainly because of the diat but because sometimes dogs tend to bite and gnaw at fence of their kennel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)
 * One last point, I'm not clear that this is a US only problem. While I don't know as much about treatment outside the US, what I've heard doesn't support the line of thought (again I'll look around for actual evidence later). Why the assumption that we're talking about US dogs since the original sentence talks about all dogs in gambling situations? I would think the economics would dictate similar treatment unless well enforced laws changed the economic balance. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)
 * Your text is USA centric. Outside the USA in Ireland or UK dogs are not kept at the track. In Ireland dogs are kept at their trainer. A trainer usually has 20-30 dogs which he trains and brings to the track to run. The trainer lives from the winning money of the dogs. A trainer will do is very best to keep the dogs fit and healthy. A trainer will denie to train dogs which is unable to win. And on the European continent greyhound live is different (BETTER) again. In most countries the dog don't fall under the farming law as in UK and US so putting dogs down is illegal in all northern European countries. Risk of diseases increases with more dogs focused on one place. The US tracks focus a lot of dogs on one place, some track have around 800 dogs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)
 * Can we get a discription of those living conditions. I've now heard everything from trainers that keep the dogs outside 24/7 to living as pets in the UK (both of which seem implosible) I'd love to know that the average living conditions are when living with their trainer. --Ahc 21:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I do think it is important to give examples of what the short-term view of the dogs does to their care. Since you didn't remove the rest of the statement or mention it above I assume you agree that it's a fair evaluation of the situation in the covered areas.  What examples would you suggest to help uninformed readers understand the implications of the remaining comments?  --Ahc 19:31, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * The worm and vaccination story is wrong!
 * True is that big crowds of animals increase the risk of a disease outbreak.
 * True is that people are focusing of the *race value* of a dog. A bad running dog which has has an injure is often put down.
 * True is that dogs which fails to win any race are not very profitable. They are put down are given to adoption.
 * True is that there people are doping the dogs. The tracks do test dogs to find doping results.
 * Doping is a big health risk. Dogs can die on too much or wrong doping. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)
 * A very big health risk is the neutering of the dogs done by the adoption organization. Many dogs die each year because of complicating related to this surgery. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 09:17, 22 December 2004 (UTC)
 * The last of these is an issue for the adoption article (since it's not about living/treatment while racing). But I ask what you're suggesting?  That the dog's shouldn't be neutered? I know that some die on the table (again the numbers are debated), but not nearly as many as used to, since NGPA developed better techniques for putting Greyhounds under.  If you want to get into this, let's move it over the the adoption article where it belongs. --Ahc 21:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Okay, I promised links. Sorry if this is a little over board, but since we've gone over this now on articles and you've failed to produce evidence to the contrary here what I've pick up in the last 30 minutes or so of searching: --Ahc 03:47, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Dogs die from Kennel cough
 * The kennel cough did costs the tracks billions. The reason for kennel cought is not missing vaccination. The problem with kennel cought is that you need to vaccinate your dog from the beginning starting on the farm where there are born. The reason of the outbreaks was a partly misunderstanding of the times the vacciantion needs to take effect. The dogs were vaccinated but science was NOT sure about how long the vacciation hold. This means that 1999 the medicaments even had printed wrong times on them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)

 * Risk of Mad Cow in 4-D meat
 * I'm sure that this is true. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)

 * FAQ regarding treatment
 * Just a summary of claims no facts here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)

 * Section of a manual for adopters that includes section of live at track (talks mostly about diet)
 * I know traines in UK/IE which brush the teath of all their dogs daily. This is more than most private people do. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)

 * Protest against the Barcelona, Spain track (see discussion below)
 * The dogs are not badly treaded in Barcelona. I had my doubts before but I have verified myself and met with the president of the tracks. True is that the dogs at the farmer the hunting galgos are treated very badly. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)
 * The article mixed up facts. There are tow types of kennels, bigger living kennels and kennel or boxes (1 sqm) were the dogs stay shortly before they run. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:56, 22 December 2004 (UTC)

 * Investigation into Greyhound bludgeoning death
 * link written twice? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)
 * typo, my fault. I can track down the original if anyone cares, I think the general point is covered. --Ahc 21:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Case of over 3000 dogs being shot
 * Those things might have happend - Yes, man can be a very ugly creature. Unfortunately those cruel things happen every where man hold animals on every farm and every slaugther house. I'm all up for improving these things. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gunnarvb (talk • contribs) 08:37, 22 December 2004 (UTC)

Until someone provides evidence to contradict these claims, I'm inclined to think a sentence like the one removed belongs in an article about racing. If someone thinks there's a POV problem with the wording, I'm happy to work on that. --Ahc 03:47, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Dogs suffer injuries in racing due to lack of safety equipment

 * AHC, thanks for looking for links and for spending so much time on writing a good article. I have the very same goal as you and all the anti greyhound racing activists. I want to improve the living conditions of the greyhounds. The problem is that some activists after over motivated and they acsitendtly or willing bending the truths a little bit and by over exagating things. They do it because they want to help the dogs and many spread the romours because they believe them and they don't know better. True is that very cruel things have happened in greyhound business, but these cruel things are not daily routine. There are people with higher moral standards in the industry which make regulations to improve the dogs live. The World Greyhound Federation and the local boards in the USA, IE, UK, AU try to improve the living contitions by enforcing vaccination, doping controlls and by forbitting putting down of healthy dogs.
 * A problem is that most of these story are simply not true. Most of them have a true origine but then people have misunderstood something or exagated the story and in the end the story in not true any more. Like the story with the kennel cought - Yes bit disease outbreak have happened but NOT because the dogs where not vaccinated but because people have misunderstood how long the vaccination holds. This was a scientifyc problem and has nothing to do with not caring. Recent kennel cought outbreaks have other reasons. There were new variations of kennel cought against some vaccination did not help. Just for your information: the American Track owners organizations finances dogs disease research every year with millions of dollars. The medicin that you can buy to vaccinate your pet dog against kennel cough was developed with the money of Greyhound racing industry. Gunnarvb 08:37, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Okay, so you aggree that the economics force a short-term view of the dog's health, and that some of the statements are true, but cause is wrong or they are exgerated. I work with activities every day (not on these issues, but the behavior is the same), while they tend to exagerate at times, I also find that industries that are inherently exploitive (like animal racing) tend to go to great length to hide their level of exploitation. I have been working harder recently to keep my POV out of these articles, but I think removing the information instead of correcting it is the wrong approach. Since many of the stories are true in their core, let's not avoid them, let's get the summary right; I feel we should fix the sentence about consequences instead of removing it. There are a couple places that you seem to be wrong as well, for instance the rate or lymns diseses is high enough amoung US dogs that nearly all rescue groups treat nearly all dogs, unless you feel they can't find better ways to spend the money I suggest this means they feel that dogs are at high risk. Also the damage to the dog's teeth from a lack of cleaning verses chewing would be very different (dirty vs. damanged) while the groups see both, they are conviced that most of it is related to diet (which is also a known issue in other breeds when feed soft-food diets for long periods of time). Gunnarvb, I'm also bothered by the earilier suggestion that my word was not good enough on it's own (as it should not be in this context), but you don't provide outside evidence to support your arguements provided please hold yourself to same standard you so rightly hold me to. I am glad to have someone so willing to challenge my understanding of the issues, and knowledgable about non-US Greyhounds, hopefully we can find the right way to phrase all the parts of this article so they are balanced and accurate.
 * All that said I suggest the following compromise statements (I extracted much of this from the statments above):
 * ...perform on the track, not for their long-term health. Greyhound adoption groups frequently report that the dogs from the tracks have tooth problems the cause of which is debated although it is likely related to either a low quality raw meat diet or damage to the gums from chewing on metal cage bars. The poor meat diet may also mean that Greyhounds are at risk for contracting Mad Cow disease (although this has not yet been seen). The groups often also state that the dogs carry tick-born diseases from a lack of proper precautions. Moreover the dense living conditions on the dogs increases their risk of contracting disease like worms and kennel cough, requiring regular treatment to prevent outbreaks. Additional owners often have ex-racing greyhounds killed after their career is over since they do not want to go through the expense of finding the dogs homes (the ratio of dogs killed versus adopted is greatly debated). There is much debate between the racing industry and anti-racing activists making the exact details hard for outsiders to determine.
 * Recently doping has also emerged as a problem in Greyhound racing, while the industry is actively working to preventing this behavior but testing the winning dogs some dogs are still affected negatively by the practice.
 * Several organizations, such as British Greyhounds Retired Database.... --Ahc 21:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Since it's been several days and no one provided feed back, I went ahead and added a slightly edited version of the above. I tried to improved the POV, and removed the Mad Cow remark. --Ahc 23:56, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

US Centric issues with treatment
As to the US centric issue, I would like to drive that bias out as best we can. I tried to add the qualifier about gambling dogs (to deal with northern european non-professional racing), what else needs to change in your opinion. I'd be interested in knowing how UK and Irish dogs are kept by their trainer. Are they in kenels? outdoor runs? comfy beds? Since we want to make sure this article isn't about US racing only those details are important to include and are currently missing. --Ahc 21:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Cleanup?
I find myself wanting more of the history of dog racing, number of tracks, money wagered, attendance. Even something as simple as the length of a lap, which I understand is 480m (525yd), is omitted. Also, the links out are a bit general; if the article is "Greyhound Racing", shouldn't the link goto racing in U.S. or Oz, & N to the nation's "main page"? Trekphiler 03:44, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

 * This is Wikipedia. Your suggestions sound good to me. Go for it. :-) Elf | Talk 19:49, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Other information I'd like to see is how fast the dogs run, how many laps they run, whether male or female dogs are faster, how much faster greyhounds are compared to other dogs etc. I love the focus on animal welfare in this article, but this kind of stuff should be here too.--188.126.207.212 (talk) 02:20, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

Controversy
Should there not be a section regarding the controversial nature of the sport (ie. animal rights being against it due to claims of cruelty)? I will add one if people don't mind. I am personally against greyhound racing but try to be npov on wikipedia - so would mention both sides of the argument and try to keep it balanced. -localzuk 01:49, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

 * See "Myth and trues" section above. If you want to write a balanced addition, go ahead --rogerd 04:06, 25 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm all for balanced coverage of the issue. Please go look over the past discussions, and keep in mind that there are two other greyhound articles.  In the past we've moved some content about this issue to other articles, so some of the content you're thinking about may be elsewhere.  If there are good arguements for bringing it back, then please do so. --Ahc 05:49, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

Greyhound racing in South Afica
Greyhound racing in South Africa is illegal, yet South Africa is listed as a country where racing takes place.

This was tested in court during 2002. Here are links to the NSPCA's press releases concerning the issue:
 * http://www.nspca.co.za/Media-Racing.htm
 * http://www.nspca.co.za/Media-Judgements.htm

I'm editing and removing South Africa -- (MoHaG (not registered yet) 198.54.202.226 22:28, 2 January 2006 (UTC) )

 * Thanks for the correction. --Ahc 14:12, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Links
I have done a brief link cull as there were a few which didn't deserve to be there (a duplicate link, a link to a missing page and a link to a forum with ~50 members). I still think the list is too long though as Wikipedia is not a collection of links/random information. Anyone else agree? -Localzuk (talk) 18:44, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

 * It appears that the whole list can be replaced with two or three dmoz.org entries that cover everything still listed and much more. I favor using dmoz when possible because if we can get rid of all non-reference direct links, there is no worry about playing favorites. --iMeowbot~Meow 21:43, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

 * All right, how about these two? Do they appear to cover all the relevant areas, or have I missed anything?
 * --iMeowbot~Meow 21:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * --iMeowbot~Meow 21:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC)
 * --iMeowbot~Meow 21:53, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

PaddyPower
I don't like to remove large blocks of text without comment, so I've move it here for now. To me this reads too much like an ad to include as is. It was placed in the "Also See" section, so I suspect it's anonymous editor doesn't know much about how Wikipedia works which increases my concern about why it was added. If it seems like important information to others, please feel free to edit and replace (in a better location). --Ahc 16:08, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

 * paddypower.com Irish Greyhound Derby
 * The paddypower.com Irish Greyhound Derby 2006 is the zenith of the Greyhound racing calendar in Ireland and the most prestigious prize in Greyhound racing. Because of it’s high value as a prize, it’s looked forward to and talked about all year round by greyhound trainers and punters alike.
 * It’s also the richest greyhound race In the world. Prizemoney this year has increased from €280,000 to €305,000 in total, with the winner getting a whopping €175,000 (up from €150,000 last year)
 * In total 144 of the world’s best greyhounds will compete for this huge purse over the space of a month. The Derby Takes place every Saturday during August with the final on 9th August.

Popularity
Hi, I just added some facts and figures to this, but would like to add my voice to the call for references to support the sentence about the sport's recent resurgence in popularity. I dispute this assertion; everything I've seen has indicated the opposite. See, for example, the HSUS link I put into that note. Unless real statistics can be put in here to support this sentence, I strongly believe it should be deleted./KatherineN KatherineN 21:35, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Given that this detail has been contests for several months, I'm going to remove it until someone can provide a reference. --Ahc 19:53, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Treatment of racing dogs
I'm kind of curious about the part under Medical Care where it states "the dogs from the tracks have tooth problems the cause of which is debated although it is likely related to either a low-quality raw meat diet or damage to the gums from chewing on metal cage bars." I think someone needs to find a reference for this. When greyhounds are kept as pets, their owners are encouraged to feed them a raw meat diet (I've seen one in particular called BARF, or "Biologically Appropriate Raw Food"). This has many advantages, and dental health is one of them. A raw meat diet should improve this, not compromise it. I'm not sure how true this is, but I think someone ought to look into it. Erick295 01:13, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Much of this article still needs better references. I'll try to review the books around the house to provide sources on these claims.  The problem in my experience has been that it's very hard to pin these problems down since the best research tends to come either from NGAP or Greyhound Protection League or the racing industry.  Since NGAP and GPL want to vilify the racing industry, and the industry refuses to admit they could cause any trouble, making finding the truth hard.  I've heard people suggest BARFing as a way of improving dental health, although I've usually heard them suggest adding foods other than meat to help clean teeth, not the meat itself.  That said, we opted not to BARF our dog, so I’ve never look into the details carefully. --Ahc 13:37, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Track Listing
I've pulled the list of tracks in the UK since we've previously felt that such listings were too long to be helpful (see US States above). I've copied them here, so if others disaggree we can replace them easily without having to revert any changes made in the mean time. My sense is still that it makes sense to list localities that have racing, but not every track. If someone wanted to start a List of Greyhound Tracks article, I think that would be fine. --Ahc 14:49, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Ireland In Ireland, the following tracks are licensed to stage Greyhound racing:
 * Clonmel
 * Cork
 * Derry
 * Dundalk
 * Enniscorthy
 * Galway
 * Harolds Cross
 * Kilkenny
 * Lifford
 * Limerick
 * Longford
 * Mullingar
 * Newbridge
 * Shelbourne Park
 * Thurles
 * Tralee
 * Waterford
 * Youghal
 * United Kingdom In the UK, the following tracks are licensed to stage Greyhound racing:
 * Belle Vue
 * Coventry
 * Crayford
 * Doncaster
 * Hall Green
 * Harlow
 * Henlow
 * Hove
 * Kinsley
 * Mildenhall
 * Monmore Green
 * Newcastle
 * Nottingham
 * Oxford
 * Pelaw Grange
 * Perry Barr
 * Peterborough
 * Poole
 * Reading
 * Romford
 * Rye House
 * Shawfield
 * Sheffield
 * Sittingbourne
 * Sunderland
 * Swindon
 * Walthamstow
 * Wimbledon

Colours
Hi. I'm not sure if this worthy of addition but it is my understanding that greyhound racing (in the UK at least) has set colours worn by the dogs depending on their position in the traps, rather than say the colour of the trainers (I think that's the horse-racing standard?). Any clarity on this? Also is it worth adding if there is a rule/reasoning behind it? ny156uk 19:22, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

 * If you can verify it, then it seems like information that should be included. Sounds like you need to find a source to confirm it first. --Ahc 00:45, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Article rewrite?
I think this article needs to be totally re-written. It is supposed to be about Greyhound Racing yet it is completely dominated by information on the fate of dogs when they retire. There is hardly anything about the racing at all e.g. famous greyhounds, famous stadiums, the structure, rules and regulations of each country etc. One paragraph on this, many paragraphs on retired greyhounds. The fate of dogs when they retire is notable, but should surely be on it's own page.

Therefore i suggest a new page is created for treatment of retired greyhounds with just a single summary paragraph and link here, and this page is filled with information about Greyhound Racing itself. --Rcclh (talk) 09:18, 8 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Maybe an article on the leagility of greyhound racing, too? I agree, the focus seems to be really off here.  ♦  Flffy'd  ♦  03:33, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

merge
merge greyhound racing and greyhound racing in great britain. the way i see it the latter is redundent and should be merged. E123 (talk) 23:02, 5 January 2009 (UTC)

On what Channel?
on what channel can i view the greyhound racing? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.123.189.137 (talk) 16:12, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

World Records?
Readers of this article want to know: who was the fastest dog ever? Is there some place on Wikipedia where one can find the records for different distances? What's the top speed for a dog? These things would make a fine addtion to this article and/or Wikipedia. I think some of the long-distance records (sled dog racing) are available, but not for these sprint races. Chrisrus (talk) 21:05, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

File:Greyhound Racing 2 amk.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Greyhound Racing 2 amk.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on September 23, 2012. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2012-09-23. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks! — howcheng  {chat} 10:25, 22 September 2012 (UTC)

Celebrity owners
I have deleted this whole section as it had a host of problems. Much of the information was irrelevant to the topic of greyhound racing, detailing those who have owned greyhounds as pets, etc. Also the section - confusingly - mixed together real and fictional examples. Lastly, the references supporting what little useful information there might have been were not from reliable sources. Jellyman (talk) 21:56, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Asia
Macau has a controversial racing scene (http://www.grey2kusa.org/pdf/3-30-14China.pdf), and Vietnam has an active racing culture.211.225.33.104 (talk) 10:58, 19 October 2014 (UTC)

POV risk
The latest changes, from Animal rights extremist groups into established animal welfare groups etc indicates that some editors of this article, have a political interest tp push their political viewpoint. Something to be alert on. Dan Koehl (talk) 16:47, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

 * It seems clear to me that "Animal rights extremist groups" is not neutral language. Far from it. The word "established" may swing a bit in the opposite direction. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  05:28, 12 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Lately ARAs try to profile themsleves as some sort of animal welfare groups, and they have even succeeded in terms of media, which most often cant separate them. But for anyone with insigth, the difference is enormous. Animal_rights may try to hide their true agenda, that they are in general against any sort of captive keeping of other species, while animal welfare people fully accept that humans own and keep animals, but they are working for better condition of the animals, and tht owners follow laws and regulations. Slowly, the public start to realize this major difference, why ARAs now and then try to "look better" by changing links from animal rights people to established animal welfare groups, but this is just political manipulation. Most established animal welfare groups does not sympahize with ARAs, and a couple of nature conservation organizations has officially stated on their websites that Animal_rights is not compatible with nature conservation. While animal welfare organsations work directly to help suffering animals, ARAs are more putting energy on politics. A lot of Wikipedia articles dealing with legal human use of animals, slowly gets the impression that different types of activities should be considered immoral, almost illegal etc.  ARAs are a political movement, often trying  to POV articles about animals, while animal welfare people mainly are just working for better condition for animals, without arguing for any rights for those animals, and logically also not arguing about animals responsibilities. ARAs are generally refered to as extremists, since they dont reflect the majority of humans, they tend to attack people, why certain laws had to be created, like the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act. It is wellnkown that PETA and other large animal rights organizations support smaller extremist groups with money, and the founder of PETA has officially declared opinions which are extreme. In a world, where humans legally buy, sell, own, and kill animals, the opinon that humans should be not be aloud to own animals, IS extreme. And ARAs lately dont want the public to know how extreme they are, why they try to make people believe they are just animal welfare people, since ARAs lately is associated with bad publicity, so they try to appear as if they are established (which they are not) and welfare people (which they are not). Something which is NOT very populair among welfare people, who, most often dont want to be mixed up with animal rights people at all.  Dan Koehl (talk) 02:43, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

 * In that lengthy section above,, you didn't furnish any reliable, independent source that describes any organization mentioned in this article as "extremist", or that verifies the hard-and-fast distinction between groups that you describe. Please climb down from your soap box and discuss how to improve this specific article rather than preaching your own personal analysis of much broader issues. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  03:24, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

 * I linked to the articles Animal_rights and animal welfare where anyone can judge themselves, about the difference between them, and analyze why one type of those two types of organsations has an interest to be viewed as similair as the other one. Further on, I did not invent the Animal Enterprise Terrorism Act, it is a Law of the United States which clearly prohibits any person from engaging in certain conduct for the purpose of damaging or interfering with the operations of an animal enterprise. Wikipedia is not an animal rights activists forum, and should be kept NPOV. Dan Koehl (talk) 03:35, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

made a comment that I: didn't furnish any reliable, independent source that describes any organization mentioned in this article as "extremist but for anyone who look back in the history of the article, can easily find when an editor a couple of days ago changed from Greyhound racing has been a source of controversy in recent years. Extremist animal rights groups such as Grey2k USA, the Animal Liberation Front (ALF), PETA, the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, and the Humane Society of the United States are opposed to commercial greyhound racing, due to industry standard practices they say are cruel and inhumane. into the present version, although both of them unverified. (ALF is supported by PETA). Dan Koehl (talk) 03:48, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Please either bring forth links to a wide range of reliable, independent sources calling these groups "extremist" or drop the use of a POV term like "extremist". Please provide links to statements on Greyhound racing from every group you mention, they should not be mentioned, . — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cullen328 (talk • contribs) 07:42, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

After being made aware of this page, I've made a few corrections, all fairly minor. However, I think the general issue is that there's a serious COI here with a group with extremely strong views editing the page (in either direction). I've dealt with similar stuff in the (obviously much more heated) page animal testing. Generally, IMHO, we should avoid sources that are either advocacy groups or industry groups, unless it's dull statistics stuff only industry groups post ("blah blah recapitalize the thingamajiger blah blah"). Neutrality must be vigorously and carefully patrolled for, preferably with at least one admin keeping an eye on the page if possible. I know in animal testing, it's a Sisyphysean task to maintain neutrality, but hopefully the edit volume will be lower here. HCA (talk) 02:56, 19 December 2014 (UTC)

The Chapter Criticism
The capter claims various things without sources and citations, and theres no evidence that grayhound racing has been a source of controversy for commion people, while of course it has for animal rights people, who are basically against any human activity that involves animals in captivity.

The entire chapter is poorly backed up by sources, and figures like an estimated 3,000 greyhaounds are euthanised annually, are not compared with how many Germans hepherds, collies, Labradors, or cocker spaniels are euthanised annually.

This article, like several oters which involves animals in captivity, needs clean-up, and a protection against political manipulation by POV. Dan Koehl (talk) 02:59, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

 * As declining attendance and betting figures show, the vast majority of "common people" worldwide know little or nothing about greyhound racing, and think of it rarely. But there is nothing in Wikipedia policies and guidelines that requires that "common people" be familiar with a controversy in order for it to be covered in this encyclopedia. The topic "Greyhound racing" indisputably includes a decades-long controversy which must be covered in this specific article. Your point about the quality of the sources is valid, but when we have intense edit warring by partisans on both sides, that is not a conducive environment for improving a neutral article that describes both points of view in an even-handed fashion. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  03:33, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

 * I claim that the section, including the picture of a greyhound that looks pretty weird, has a political tendency, its not just neutral documentation. We dont know anything about that dog, if its giving litters during the picture, or if someone is making the dogs to look like that, (theres two human hands around the troat) or whatever, but what is clear, someone put that particualir picture in the article because of their agenda, the person wants us to believe that racing dogs in general suffer. Wikipedia should not be a political instrument, Wikipedia should describe all human activities out of a neutral point of view. If any political group wants to change our opinion and ideas about legal and accepted human activities, Wikipedia is not the right place for this. If "Greyhound racing" indisputably includes a decades-long controversy which must be covered in this specific article, as you put it, then it should be sourced and verified according tothe policy rules. Dan Koehl (talk) 03:57, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

 * Since you seem to be far more knowledgeable about the controversy than I am, I respectfully request that you bring forth some links to reliable independent sources to this discussion here, . I make the same challenge to those on the other side of the issue. What are the best sources, in respected mainstream publications, that discuss the greyhound racing controversy in depth, presenting both sides? Those should be the backbone of sourcing for the section. Cullen328  Let's discuss it  07:34, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

A mess from the start
This is a significant subject for an article, but this article is a mess. The first two paragraphs in the History section needed cleanup and repair. They remain defective (see tags). In the second paragraph "The deal went sour with Smith never hearing from Munn again" was deleted because it refers to missing context. It sounds like the making of an anecdote, but whoever wrote it forgot the rest.

This subject deserves an editor with knowledge and writing ability. J M Rice (talk) 00:04, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

Lacking information
The page on this subject gives very little information about the sport? What is the rules? How long is the run and etc? --192.71.219.1 (talk) 08:18, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Dead citation link
Hi, the #15 footnote link to the article in The Times does not send you to the article, instead it sends you to a login page.

Here is the reference in question:

Mcdudeman (talk) 12:45, 4 March 2016 (UTC)

Mechanical Lure
I am interested in learning more about the mechanical lure. How does it work? What is the history? Perhaps it needs a section or separate article.

✤ JonHarder talk 13:32, 8 May 2016 (UTC)

 * That would be useful if you wish to write one. It may help you to know that in some countries this device is known as an Electric Hare. Britmax (talk) 22:49, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

New South Wales has banned all greyhound racing from July 2017

 * Greyhound racing to be banned in New South Wales, Baird Government announces
 * NSW Justice department GREYHOUND RACING TO BE SHUT DOWN IN NSW

This is the report - in http://www.greyhoundracinginquiry.justice.nsw.gov.au/

The whole report on corruption and coverups in the NSW greyhound racing industry is 30+ chapters and 600+ pages.

Animal rights groups may have "extremists" in them - but that doesn't justify a POV tag - note that a 600+ page government report is not published by animal rights "extremists".

I'm going to take the POV tag off - the presence of a 600+ page government report meets WP:RS and WP:DUE.

-- Callinus (talk) 11:34, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

First two sentences are contradictory
The first sentence says greyhound racing is around a track. The second sentence says greyhound racing can be either around a track or not. This needs clarification—maybe it could be said that

 * Greyhound racing is an organized, competitive sport in which greyhound dogs are raced around a track, or more broadly ....

Loraof (talk) 20:37, 22 August 2016 (UTC)

Commercial vs Recreational
Is the intention of this article to cover only commercial greyhound racing? Much of the discussion seems to apply only in that case. For example the discussion on living conditions talks about kennels being kept at tracks, the map shows greyhound racing as illegal in WA state, and the "Today" section begins with "Commercial greyhound racing is characterized..." but never discussion anything else. But I checked the WA state law against greyhound racing and found it's actually a law about gambling and doesn't have anything to do with non commercial racing. The dogs involved in amateur racing are typically kept in homes with their owners and treated like any other pet, just one with a hobby. On the other hand the general title of the article and the introduction that says "In many countries greyhound racing is purely amateur and solely for enjoyment." make it seem like the article covers all greyhound racing. Given the strong bias in the article towards discussion of commercial gambling oriented racing I propose that the article be renamed to "commercial greyhound racing", the small number of mentions of non commercial racing be removed or adjusted to make it clear that the information is presented to contrast with the main point of the article, and any places where it's ambiguous it be made clear that the discussion refers to the dog racing industry only (possibly the other two changes would leave no ambiguous to be clarified). 216.113.160.82 (talk) 00:44, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

 * I would say it is appropriate to expand the information about recreational racing (rather than narrow the focus of this article), if you have some references about it. The article mentions a course in Perth and that WA racing is regulated by the Western Australian Greyhound Racing Authority (WAGRA), but does not say (at present) that this does not permit gambling. Could you please improve the article with the information you have found? --Scott Davis Talk 04:04, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Greyhound racing


text:
Bicuculline

Bicuculline is a phthalide-isoquinoline compound that is a light-sensitive competitive antagonist of GABAA receptors. It was originally identified in 1932 in plant alkaloid extracts and has been isolated from Dicentra cucullaria, Adlumia fungosa, and several Corydalis species (all in subfamily Fumarioideae, previously known as family Fumariaceae). Since it blocks the inhibitory action of GABA receptors, the action of bicuculline mimics epilepsy; it also causes convulsions. This property is utilized in laboratories around the world in the in vitro study of epilepsy, generally in hippocampal or cortical neurons in prepared brain slices from rodents. This compound is also routinely used to isolate glutamatergic (excitatory amino acid) receptor function.

The action of bicuculline is primarily on the ionotropic GABAA receptors, which are ligand-gated ion channels concerned chiefly with the passing of chloride ions across the cell membrane, thus promoting an inhibitory influence on the target neuron. These receptors are the major targets for benzodiazepines, z-drugs, and related anxiolytic drugs.

The half-maximal inhibitory concentration (IC50) of bicuculline on GABAA receptors is 3 μM.

In addition to being a potent GABAA receptor antagonist, bicuculline can be used to block Ca2+-activated potassium channels.

Sensitivity to bicuculline is defined by IUPHAR as a major criterion in the definition of GABAA receptors

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Bicuculline


text:
Paperboy (disambiguation)

A paperboy is a young person delivering newspapers to homes.

Paperboy or Paperboys may also refer to:

Film and television

 * The Paperboy (1994 film), a Canadian horror film by Douglas Jackson, named after the role
 * The Paperboy (2012 film), an American drama by Lee Daniels
 * Paperboys (film), a 2001 American documentary by Mike Mills
 * The Paperboy, a fictional character in the British sitcom Fawlty Towers
 * Paper Boy, a 2018 Indian romantic film

Literature

 * The Paperboy (novel), a 1995 novel by Pete Dexter
 * Paperboy (novel), a 2013 novel by Vince Vawter
 * Paperboy, a 1999 novel by Isabelle Holland
 * Paperboy, a 2011 memoir by Northern Irish writer Tony Macaulay
 * The Paperboy (children's book), a 1997 children's book by Dav Pilkey

Music

 * Paperboy (rapper) (born 1969), American rapper
 * Eli "Paperboy" Reed (born 1982), American singer
 * Paperboy Fabe (born 1984), American music producer
 * Paperboys (Norwegian duo), a Norwegian hip hop duo
 * The Paperboys (Canadian band), a Canadian folk music band

Songs

 * "Paperboy", a song by Charles Hamilton, feat. B.o.B
 * "Paperboy", a song by Stabilo from Cupid?
 * "Paperboy", a song from the 2011 Bruce Hornsby musical SCKBSTD

Other uses

 * Paperboy (video game), a 1985 arcade game by Atari Games, named after the role
 * Paperboy 2, the 1991 sequel
 * Paperboy Prince, American artist, community activist, and politician
 * Josh Wilson (baseball) (born 1981), nicknamed "The Paperboy", American baseball shortstop

title: Paperboy (disambiguation)


text:
Talk:Binary star

Visual Binaries section- Role of Star Brightness in Hindering Identification
"The brightness of the two stars is also an important factor, as brighter stars are harder to separate, due to their glare, than the dimmer ones."

Not being an astronomer, I'm loath to immediately change this myself, but this unsourced statement seems plainly wrong. Aperture or exposure time can easily be reduced, cutting down on glare artifacts. The correct statement is probably that if there is a large difference between the luminosities of the two stars, then the faint secondary can be more difficult to detect due to the overwhelming glare of the primary. Undomelin (talk) 07:28, 25 January 2013 (UTC)

 * I *am* an astronomer and the statement is wrong. It may indeed intend to refer to binaries with large brightness difference between the components, but it doesn't say that. Lithopsian (talk) 16:54, 19 March 2013 (UTC)

Needs a Trinary Star System Animation
This is an outstanding article, but you have to admit that an animation of a trinary star system would be extremely cool and really should be added.

75.166.179.110 (talk) 19:01, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Fictional Usage
Would it be plausible to add a section on the fictional Mirrodin installment of Magic, The Gathering, which features a multi-star system? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.159.176.131 (talk • contribs) 00:16, 29 August, 2006 (UTC)

The fiction section was getting a bit large (especially since the article is quite big itself), so I split it off today. Nick Mks 19:55, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Binary star collision
Is it possible for a binary star to collide with its companion? After all, their orbits do overlap: [] —Preceding unsigned comment added by Just James (talk • contribs) 12:56, 6 October, 2006 (UTC)

 * No. Since they orbit their common center of mass, they are always at opposite sides of the orbit (exactly as in the last animation). They can fuse together though, if they spiral in towards each other, as explained in the article. Thanks for bringing my attention to these nice animations. Nick Mks 10:56, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I however, have found a different answer. Sometimes binary companions can and do collide.  It happens with older stars of large mass.  Some gamma-ray bursts, for instance, are caused by two neutron stars in a binary system colliding.--Sgcgirl52 08:47, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Exactly, as I mentioned above binaries can spiral into each other and eventually merge. That's what you are referring to and this is also in the article. What Just James asks is whether they could undergo a sudden freak collision due to the fact that their Kepler orbits intersect. This is of course impossible, since orbiting bodies are always at opposite ends of their orbit. Nick Mks 18:57, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I was unaware that Just James was only refering to the companions colliding due to their Kepler orbits. I assumed that he was refering to colliding in any matter and was just trying to clarify that the two can be in a degenerative orbit and eventually collide. --Sgcgirl52 22:33, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I understand, and I appreciate your input. I can actually only guess that he refers to that because he said After all, their orbits do overlap. That's why I assume he means a sudden collision. Nick Mks 08:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

 * According to Isaac Newton, Principia, Book I Sect. 11 ("The motion of bodies drawn to one another by centripetal forces") the orbits - seen relatively to the barycenter - do not overlap; rather the bodies rotate in "concentric ellipses" (Newton l.c., Prop. 58 Corollary 1). The view of seemingly overlapping orbits may be due to the astronomer's perspective, as is the view of sun seemingly wandering about the earth from morning to evening. Ed Dellian 84.144.128.120 (talk) 13:03, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

Vandalism
As from now, I am discontinuing my efforts to limit vandalism to this article (which I got featured last spring). Without the requested support from admins, this is becoming an impossible task. Nick Mks 18:36, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Despite my vow not to, I reverted vandalism today. I pretty much had to, because it had been there for almost 24 hours, and I doubt whether it would have been removed at all. The degeneracy of scientific articles lately is quite obvious... Nick Mks 19:56, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Occurrence of multiple systems
This line in the article is intriguing: "Recent research suggests that a large percentage of stars are part of systems with at least two stars" Could a footnote or link be added to explore it? Thanks, John Sweeney —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.25.230.141 (talk • contribs) 18:56, 29 November, 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, this is indeed a very hot topic in astrophysics, so it is quite difficult to give a complete and correct answer. A good and recent reference is the one in the article: . You can also browse ADS with some relevant keywords for more. Nick Mks 21:16, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, the link that you have given supports past hypotheses and ADS did not give any relevant information to me either. Do you have any stronger reference? Really, stated in this way without any reference, it sounds very ... trust-worthless, let's say.

Simple Question
I apologize if it sounds like a very basic question, but how would the two stars on a binary system appear on the sky of an Earth-like planet orbiting one of the two suns and relatively far from the other ? Specially, how would sunset/sunrise, day/night look like ? 161.24.19.82 17:29, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Nemesis/Sun Relationship
Shouldn't the Sun/Nemesis hypothesis be added in some way to the article? Scientists think that our Solar System is a binary-star if Nemesis is out there beyond the Oort Cloud. Spark Moon 16:25, 2 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Scientists think our Sun does NOT have a binary companion. The Nemesis hypothesis is from 1984 and none of the infrared surveys have found it. -- Kheider (talk) 22:23, 29 December 2012 (UTC)
 * But there seem to be many people who believe or at least claim that Nemesis or Nibiru exists. While their beliefs don't seem to me to be based on observation / deduction, the fact does exist that there are people who claim this. So I think this article could appropriately carry a short section on the subject. At the very least it's fun to consider whether the Sun might have an undiscovered, gravitationally linked companion. Friendly Person (talk) 15:52, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Two stars
The first sentence says A binary star is a stellar system consisting of two stars orbiting around their center of mass. And right two it there is a picture with only 1 star and a blackhole. I know blackholes were stars before they died, but I think the first sentence ain't right. 08:33, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

DDEB - Double-lined eclipsing binary
Reading this [AJ paper], they claim that NSVS01031772 is a DDEB type binary. Looking on this page, it does not mention it. This is the first time I seen this term, wondering if any of you know what this means. It also states that these objects are scarce. And that the first 2 low-mass ones discovered are CM Dra & YY Gem. What makes NSVS01031772 unique is that both stars are of stellar metallicity. I will try rereading the paper to see if I missed anything. Thanks, CarpD 6/22/07.

I looked at the paper. I think DDEB is just their non-standard notation for a double-lined system, so not worth noting. I couldn't find any other papers using this notation on a quick search. Timb66 07:39, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Gravitational Lensing
I think there should be a bit about how gravitational lensing can make one object look like two (or more). For example the Twin Quasar is a gravitationally lensed object that looks like two. --72.39.35.178 (talk) 18:21, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

Article Structure
This whole article in a factually an absolute mess, which I have made a significant improvement n "Terminology" using primary sources.

There are too missing references to much of the quoted text.

The status of the text as a feature article should be removed until this issues are fixes. The peer review made in 8th June 2006 is far out of date, and the whole article has been significantly modified. It is important this page is fixed, as it hinges on other binary and double stars being referenced in other Wikipedia articles. (estimate +1000)

This also needs to be integrated with the Wikipedia pages on Double stars and Multiple stars

Arianewiki1 (talk) 04:11, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Serious Problems with Astronomical Definitions
The current version of this article is greatly improved here. I have great appreciation for Spacepotato's efforts in correction some glaring mistakes and investigating various references.

However, I have grave concerns with the use of terms for "double stars" and "binary stars" - especially the distinction of the two.

The persistent and wrong view of "stellar systems" throughout the astronomy articles in "Wikipedia" shows the lack of understanding about the nature multiple gravitational systems. Namely, single stars, double stars, multiple stars, associations, open star clusters and globular star clusters. These divisions are not just based on numerical counts, but also on their own internal dynamics. Such distinctions are important for their evolution, stability and behaviours.

Double stars, Multiple stars, Associations, Open Star Clusters and Globular Star Clusters are not just singular objects, by are also distinct subjects in observational and theoretical astronomy.

in this instance, "Double stars" are the generic term for these objects AND the topic of such gravitational celestial bodies. Observationally, both "Binary stars" and "optical pairs are typically a subset of subject "Double stars." "Double stars" use as a term is especially important by visual observers, who are making so-called "measures" to determine if "double stars" are either binaries or optical pairs. Arianewiki1 (talk) 09:52, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

Over time this distinction is made by the apparent motion of components. Shorter period binaries have been learnt rather quickly. Ie. William Herschel with Gamma Virginus (Porrima) and Castor, but the majority remain uncertain if they are attached gravitationally or not. These are commonly called "double stars" or "visual double stars" - 'pairs' if you must. They are not umbrella "stellar systems", they are actually important distinct classes of astronomical objects. The same problem is with "Multiple stars", they are a class of objects. "Multiple star systems" is simply a redundant term, which is both confusing and rarely used. (Read whole discussion in the page stellar systems. This reads like an agenda produced by some individual writers. Sadly, this usage is historically has been rarely used, and through the nomenclature of the I.A.U.

 * Wikipedia writers should refer the

Another is Lortet, M.-C., Borde, S., Ochsenbein, F. 1994, The Second Reference Dictionary of the Nomenclature of Celestial Objects, A&AS, 107, 193 (

Unless writers are prepared to adopt common usage terms for astronomical classes of objects, then most of these Wikipedia articles will continue to be rejected as portraying how such systems are actually investigated and understood. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arianewiki1 (talk • contribs) 09:52, 23 August 2008

Optical doubles v. binary stars
ON 20 December 2008 Spacepotato (Talk | contribs) (50,279 bytes) said "Copyedit again. Also, incorrect to equate visual binary stars with binaries whose orbits are known." Please. This is not what I'm actually saying!!!!!! The statement is that "binary stars with orbits" are a sub-set of "visual DOUBLE stars" !! As I said before there are are THREE types of (visual) Double Stars and NOT just TWO. These are Binary stars, Optical Doubles or pairs, and THOSE NOT DETERMINED AS EITHER BINARIES OR OPTICAL DOUB:ES. Such indeterminate systems are called by observers as PAIRS or "globally" as DOUBLE STARS. In fact, the majority of (visual) double stars 98% are NOT absolutely known to be binaries, while perhaps about 30% have been determined as very likely optical. The rest of the systems are unknown attachment. So what should YOU call these???? They are (c. 68% of them) neither established binaries nor optical doubles! But I do see your point of view, and basically where you are coming from. Yes, theoretically there are can only be binaries or non-binaries (optical double stars), but to the reader it leaves the impression that we already know for certain they are all one or the other. Clearly the real truth is we don't really know where the majority fall - it is actually the driving force for the last two hundred years or so now behind basic double star research. Arianewiki1 (talk) 06:22, 20 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Although it is true that many pairs are not known to be either physical or optical, this was not what my statement was intended to point out. Rather, my point was that pairs might be known to be physical although their orbits are not known.  To quote Heintz : "If the component proper motions nearly equal each other, leaving a considerably smaller difference as a relative motion, the pair is very probably a physical one, and this conclusion becomes a virtual certainty if the spectroscope also shows the radial velocities to be nearly equal."  For examples of this, you can consult the Washington Double Star Catalog.  Many pairs are tagged with a V, indicating that they are physical, despite the fact that their orbits have not been determined.  The pair STF 3060AB, for instance, is such a pair.  So, it's not correct to say that only 2% of visual double stars are known to be physical just because only 2% of them have their orbits listed in the Sixth Catalog of Orbits.
 * Spacepotato (talk) 03:27, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal
As I suggested at AfD (comment 21:29, 5 March 2011), the editors unhappy with Hot companion would do more good pouring their energy into moving any relevant content into this article and redirecting. [Clarification: I am neutral on the merge. I'm just trying to move the project along.] - Simon Dodd { U·T·C·WP:LAW } 13:36, 11 March 2011 (UTC)

Work needed
Hi everyone - Unfortunately, this article has not kept up with featured article standards in the years since it's promotion. If it is to remain a featured article, some rather significant work is needed. The major issues that caught my eye include:
 * References needed banner in Spectroscopic binaries section
 * There is quite a bit of other unreferenced information. See, for example, the third paragraph of Eclipsing binaries, the second and fourth paragraphs of Astrometric binaries, the second and third paragraphs of Configuration of the system, much of the Astrophysics section and its subsections, etc. These are just examples, there are other areas, too.
 * Reference formatting needs some work. Web references need access dates. Books need page numbers (see, for example, the Nigel Henbest book). Consistency should be checked (see, for example, refs 5 and 6). Are page numbers for books given first or later in the reference? These are just examples, and a full check is needed for consistency, completeness, and reliability.
 * Text should not be sandwiched between images.
 * Removed redundant image and moved movie to right to eliminate sandwiching. Stigmatella aurantiaca (talk) 03:35, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

 * Three dead links, see the report.
 * Removed one of the three dead links; two remain for which replacements need to be found. Stigmatella aurantiaca (talk) 03:59, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

If, at the very least, the major issues are not addressed, this article will need to go to WP:FAR. Dana boomer (talk) 14:25, 18 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I also think that there should be a section which divides binary stars into three categories:

 * Close binaries: Stars which orbit so close to each other that they affect their stellar evolution significantly. (for an example: Kepler-16 A and Kepler-16 B)
 * Medium-distance binaries: Stars which do not affect each other's stellar evolution significantly but have a major influence on each other's astrospheres, circumstellar disks and the stability of regions which can form planets. (for an example: Alpha Centauri A and alpha Centauri B, Proxima Centauri not included)
 * Wide binaries: Stars which do not affect each other significantly, not do they affect the stability of each other's astrospheres and gravitational stability of planetary bodies inside their astrospheres. They still affect the orbits of distant comets. (for an example ADS 16402 A and ADS 16402 B

These characteristics are very important when it comes to evolution of stars and planets in multiple star systems. --Artman40 (talk) 23:37, 5 December 2013 (UTC)

Post-common-envelope binary
Two articles discussing the star RR Caeli describe it as a post-common-envelope binary, a red link. As far as I can see, these are the only occurrences of the term in the English Wikipedia. Should the concept be explained, probably in this article, or should we get rid of it? J S Ayer (talk) 01:25, 21 February 2014 (UTC)

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Binary star system categories
I removed this material from the Discovery section. It did not seem appropriate where it was placed, and the reference was inaccessible. I see a National Radio Astronomy Observatory news release about these results, but no other decent secondary sources. John Tobin and his team found that there are two types of binary star system categories: there either being separated between a distance between less than 300 astronomical units or greater than 1000 astronomical units(Hall, Shannon).

Stigmatella aurantiaca (talk) 18:15, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Something funky with your link. Here is a direct link to a paper with results from this study. Pretty abstruse stuff. Also not what the article stated anyway. Lithopsian (talk) 18:22, 22 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Fixed the link. Sorry about that. :-( You are right about the article being somewhat abstruse. Stigmatella aurantiaca (talk) 19:37, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

When is a simulation not a simulation?
Before a series of animations:
 * Images are representative, not simulated.

The phrase "not simulated" usually means it's the real thing. Let's find another wording. How about "These animations do not attempt to represent any specific real system"? —Tamfang (talk) 19:51, 2 January 2017 (UTC)

Which are both visual and spectroscopic
Binary_star says "Binary stars that are both visual and spectroscopic binaries are rare, and are a precious source of valuable information when found" but it doesn't list any or have a source we can refer to. Should we note some here or where ? - Rod57 (talk) 18:28, 16 January 2017 (UTC)
 * See https://aas.aanda.org/articles/aas/pdf/2000/14/ds9259.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.53.52.160 (talk) 07:16, 5 June 2017 (UTC)
 * This mentions about 40 binaries. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.53.52.160 (talk) 07:31, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

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"often appear to the unaided eye as a single point of light"
The article currently claims that

 * These systems, especially when more distant, often appear to the unaided eye as a single point of light, and are then revealed as multiple by other means.

but don't they always appear to the unaided eye as a single point of light?

(Some of them can be resolved with optical telescopes; I wonder if someone misunderstood some reference to "visual binaries" and thought that they were visible to the naked eye?)

—Ruakh TALK 02:41, 21 April 2018 (UTC)

 * Definitely not always, but perhaps nearly always would be more accurate. Not many known orbiting pairs can be resolved with the naked eye.  Lithopsian (talk) 11:01, 22 April 2018 (UTC)

 * Do you have any examples handy of ones that can? —Ruakh TALK 05:05, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

 * ζ Reticuli has an inferred orbit, very long obviously. There are a number of other common proper motion pairs resolvable to the naked eye, but orbital motion is difficult to detect.  ε Lyrae, θ Tauri, μ Scorpii, and α Librae are all binaries relatively easy to split with the naked eye.  β Capricorni is a real challenge without binoculars.  Proxima Centauri is an interesting case.  It has a known orbit and is so widely separated from α Centauri that you'd hesitate to even call them a double star.  Proxima has recently been seen to produce a superflare bringing it to the edge of naked-eye visibility and it is estimated that these should occur several times a year.  Lithopsian (talk) 15:19, 3 December 2018 (UTC)

 * Interesting; thank you! —Ruakh TALK 05:11, 14 December 2018 (UTC)

 * I've noticed binary system : binary star - I just would like to propose with all reason that the former must be the accurate description, the latter must be made redundant because the word star is the singular (the term binary star is a contradiction - binary stars) - the former is a linguistic conflict which has no solution except for the naked eye ruling the definition, but in reality we all know the naked eye observation isn't the reality - why does the article maintain the earlier defunct identification? Autonomous agent 5 (talk) 20:52, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * as the previous user aptly describes "..the unaided eye.." - surely unaided can't be the current reality, because the internet is surfeit, or at least equipped, with aid in the form of information 20:57, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * "star" is archaic, anachronistic... 21:10, 8 June 2021 (UTC)
 * We're here (at Wikipedia) to report the world, not fix it. If people call them binary stars then we have to use that term.  When people have stopped calling them binary stars then we can too.  This comment seems out of place in this section.  Perhaps if you put it in a new section, there can be a discussion of which is the most commonly-used term in the real world and which we should prioritise here.  Note that binary system is a separate article about a more general topic.  Lithopsian (talk) 14:52, 10 June 2021 (UTC)
 * thanks; I'll consider for a time your reply: regards, Autonomous agent 5 (talk) 23:50, 10 June 2021 (UTC)

Percentages
It would be useful to have information in this article about percentages: What fraction of stars are optical binaries, and what fraction are true double stars? Doubtless, there are estimates. Friendly Person (talk) 15:42, 3 December 2020 (UTC)

Proper crediting of the video "artist's impression of an eclipsing binary"
The video used in this article is not properly credited. I found it on https://www.eso.org/public/videos/eso1311b/, credited as "ESO/L. Calçada". A reference to this page is basic etiquette of crediting scientific works. 178.165.191.108 (talk) 15:34, 11 June 2023 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia article space generally does not include credits, its not considered encyclopedic information. See MOS:CREDITS. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 20:19, 11 June 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Binary star


text:
List of national parks in Malaysia

Malaysia has a number of national parks, but most of them are de facto state parks. This page provides the list of protected areas and pictures associated with the facilities and activities available in each area.

Peninsular Malaysia
All national parks and reserves in Peninsular Malaysia are under the jurisdiction of the Department of Wildlife and National Parks of Malaysia. For states that have state parks, the state governments might establish managing agencies for the parks.

National parks

 * Taman Negara, established 1939
 * Endau-Rompin National Park, gazetted 1993
 * Penang National Park, declared 2003
 * Gunung Ledang National Park, gazetted 2005
 * Taman Negara Johor Tanjung Piai
 * Taman Negara Johor Pulau Kukup

State parks and reserves

 * Johor
 * Hutan Lipur Sungai Bantang
 * Hutan Lipur Gunung Arong
 * Hutan Lipur Gunung Berlumut

 * Kelantan
 * Mount Setong State Park

 * Pahang
 * Taman Negeri Rompin
 * Tengku Hassanal Wildlife Reserve

 * Perak
 * Royal Belum State Park
 * Sungkai Sambar Deer and Pheasant Wildlife Reserve

 * Perlis
 * Perlis State Park
 * Wang Pinang Reserve

 * Selangor
 * Selangor State Park
 * Sungai Dusun Wildlife Reserve
 * Templer's Park
 * Kuala Selangor Nature Park

 * Melaka
 * Melaka State Park, Bukit Sedanan

 * Terengganu
 * Setiu Wetlands State Park
 * Kenyir State Park
 * Tenggol Island State Park

Sarawak
National Parks and other conservation areas in Sarawak are under the governance of the Sarawak Forestry Corporation.

 * Bako National Park
 * Batang Ai National Park
 * Bruit National Park
 * Bukit Tiban National Park
 * Gunung Buda National Park
 * Gunung Gading National Park
 * Gunung Mulu National Park
 * Kubah National Park
 * Kuching Wetlands National Park
 * Lambir Hills National Park
 * Limbang Mangrove National Park
 * Loagan Bunut National Park
 * Maludam National Park
 * Miri-Sibuti Coral Reef National Park
 * Niah National Park
 * Pelagus National Park
 * Pulong Tau National Park
 * Rajang Mangroves National Park
 * Samunsam Wildlife Sanctuary
 * Santubong National Park
 * Sedilu National Park
 * Similajau National Park
 * Sungai Meluang National Park
 * Talang Satang National Park
 * Tanjung Datu National Park
 * Turtle Islands National Park
 * Ulu Sebuyau National Park
 * Usun Apau National Park
 * Wind Cave Nature Reserve

Sabah
National or state parks in Sabah are managed by Sabah Parks. Other reserves or protected areas are under the governance of the Sabah Forestry Department and Sabah Foundation.
 * Crocker Range Park
 * Kinabalu Park
 * Pulau Tiga Park
 * Tawau Hills Park
 * Tun Sakaran Marine Park
 * Tunku Abdul Rahman Park
 * Turtle Islands Park
 * Sipadan Island Park
 * Tun Mustapha Marine Park
 * Kota Kinabalu Wetland Centre
 * Lok Kawi Wildlife Park
 * Padang Teratak Wetlands Area
 * Lower Kinabatangan - Segama Wetlands
 * Lower Kinabatangan Wildlife Sanctuary
 * Tabin Wildlife Reserve
 * Sepilok Orangutan Rehabilitation Centre

Protected Forest Reserves:
 * Balembangan Forest Reserve
 * Bengkoka Forest Reserve
 * Bidu Bidu Forest Reserve
 * Binsuluk Forest Reserve
 * Botitian Forest Reserve
 * Bukit Kuamas Forest Reserve
 * Bukit Taviu Forest Reserve
 * Danum Valley Conservation Area
 * Deramakot Forest Reserve
 * Gomantong Forest Reserve
 * Gunung Rara Forest Reserve
 * Klias Forest Reserve
 * Lipaso Forest Reserve
 * Maliau Basin Conservation Area
 * Mandamai Forest Reserve
 * Mount Pock Forest Reserve
 * Silabukan Protection Forest Reserve
 * Tawai Forest Reserve
 * Tenompok Forest Reserve
 * Ulu Kalumpang Forest Reserve
 * Ulu Telupid Forest Reserve

title: List of national parks in Malaysia


text:
Munna Bhai M.B.B.S.

Munna Bhai M.B.B.S. (translation: Munna Bro M.B.B.S.) is a 2003 Indian Hindi-language satirical comedy drama film written and directed by Rajkumar Hirani in his directorial debut and produced by Vidhu Vinod Chopra under the banner Vinod Chopra Films. It features Sunil Dutt in his final film role as the father to his real-life son, Sanjay Dutt, who stars as the titular character. Gracy Singh, Jimmy Sheirgill, Arshad Warsi, Rohini Hattangadi and Boman Irani also appear in the film.

The first installment of the Munna Bhai film series, the film follows Munna Bhai, a don in the Mumbai underworld, trying to please his father by pretending to be a doctor, but when a doctor, Asthana (Irani), exposes his lies and tarnishes his father's honor, Munna enrolls in a medical college. Chaos ensues when Munna, upon finding that Asthana is the dean of the college, vows revenge, while also sparking a romance with a house doctor, Suman (Singh), unaware that she is his childhood friend and Asthana's daughter. The film was followed by its sequel, Lage Raho Munna Bhai (2006).

Released on 19 December 2003, the film was a major critical and commercial success, and went on to win the 2004 National Film Award for Best Popular Film, and several Filmfare Awards, including the Best Film (Critics) and Best Screenplay. At the box office, it achieved a silver jubilee status (25-week run) being one of only eight Hindi films to have achieved this status since the year 2000. In its 26th week of release, the film could still be found playing on 300 screens throughout India. The film's release was also accompanied by a mobile video game based on the film by Indiagames.

Plot
Murli Prasad Sharma, nicknamed "Munna Bhai", is a street-wise, Bombay Hindi-speaking gangster who runs an extortion racket on the streets of Mumbai. He is supported by his loyal henchman, Sarkeshwar "Circuit" Sharma, who does most of his work for him. Once a year, Munna's gang converts his hide-out into a fully-functioning hospital, to fool Munna's visiting parents Hariprasad and Parvati, who believe Munna has become a real doctor. Munna's goons take turns playing doctors, staff and patients, to keep up the charade.

This works for many years, until one of Hari's annual visits with Parvati culminates in Hari bumping into Dr. Jagdish Asthana, who founded the first hospital in Munna's village years ago. Hari proposes to Asthana that they get Asthana's daughter and Munna's childhood friend "Chinki" married to him. Asthana agrees, even though Munna asks her to reject him, lest his parents discover the truth. However, it is when his maid reacts shockingly to Munna's photo that Asthana realizes the truth, and exposes Munna to Hari and Parvati. Humiliated and embarrassed at their son's lack of a real vocation, they leave the city and return home. Munna vows to set things right and exact vengeance from Asthana by getting a medical degree, but unknowingly ends up enrolling in the same college whose dean is Asthana. Certain that Munna has cheated his way through the entrance exam, but lacking real evidence, Asthana is forced to allow Munna to study there.

Upon becoming a student, Munna falls back to his ways by flouting all the rules of the hospital. He enforces his regime of "common-sense treatment", directly challenging Asthana's conventional opinions to get under his skin. Despite the school's emphasis on mechanical, cartesian, impersonal and often bureaucratic relationships between doctors and patients, Munna constantly seeks to impose a more empathetic and almost holistic regimen around himself. He also calls upon Circuit to 'tweak' the system for him when needed. His behaviour is well-received by the hospital staff and patients, who are able to see the good-natured intent behind his anti-establishment actions. Asthana, who perceives all this as symptoms of chaos, is unable to prevent it from expanding and gaining ground at his college, despite his efforts to expel Munna. He begins laughing in a way that implies that he has gone insanely mad, as an attempt to practice "laughter therapy", which serves more to convey his anger than diffuse it.

Meanwhile, Munna also develops a friendly relationship with Dr. Suman, who works at the hospital, unaware that she is "Chinki", an ignorance she hilariously exploits. Munna decides to confess his feelings for Suman and abandon his personal vendetta against "Chinki" and Asthana. Munna uses old-fashioned kindness and love to 'cure' many patients at the hospital, including Karan, a suicidal youngster he met on his first day of college, and home surgeon Dr. Rustom Pawri's father, who at one point fell ill and short of a desire to live. He even thanks an underappreciated janitor and arranges to bring a stripper inside the patient ward to cheer up Zaheer, a man dying from stomach cancer who he befriends in the process.

When Asthana learns about the stripper episode, he sees this as a potential reason to expel Munna on disciplinary grounds, but is unable to do so after Munna injures himself in order to stay back. However, when he does recover, the hospital staff, patients and students stand in Asthana's way and refuse to let Munna leave. Munna is then made to take a test in front of the entire college the next day to keep his enrolment. Later that night, Zaheer dies; still in shock, Munna gives up at a point during the test and leaves; in the process, Anand Banerjee, a paraplegic patient who has been brain-dead for the last 12 years, comes back to life. Suman realizes Munna as the miracle behind Anand's recovery and gives a heartfelt speech, defending his actions. Asthana, finally moved, is forced to change his opinion of Munna.

Munna does not end up becoming a doctor, but news of his 'miraculous' treatments reaches his parents. They return to the city and forgive him. Munna ends up marrying Suman after learning of her true identity, and together, they open a real hospital in Munna's family village. Circuit also gets married a year later and has a son, who is nicknamed "Short Circuit". As the film concludes, Anand, restored to normal mental health, narrates the story to a few children at the hospital as he is about to leave for Kolkata.

Cast

 * Sunil Dutt as Shri Hari Prasad Sharma, Munna's father
 * Sanjay Dutt as Murli Prasad Sharma (a.k.a. Munna Bhai), a gangster and medical student in Mumbai
 * Gracy Singh as Dr. Suman Asthana (a.k.a. Chinki), Asthana's daughter and a faculty member of the medical institute
 * Jimmy Sheirgill as Zaheer Ali Khan, a terminally ill patient and Munna's friend
 * Arshad Warsi as Sarkeshwar (a.k.a. Circuit), Munna's sidekick
 * Boman Irani as Dr. Jagdish Chandra "JC" Asthana, Suman's father and the medical institute dean
 * Rohini Hattangadi as Parvati Sharma, Munna's mother
 * Neha Dubey as Shalini, Suman's friend and fake Chinki
 * Kurush Deboo as Dr. Rustom Pavri, a faculty member of the medical institute
 * Yatin Karyekar as Anand Banerjee, a brain-dead patient and Munna's friend
 * Nawazuddin Siddiqui as a pickpocket who tried to steal Hari's wallet at the railway station (cameo appearance)
 * Rohitash Gaud as the coconut seller in the park
 * Mumaith Khan as Nandini (a.k.a. Reena), the cabaret dancer in the song "Dekh Le" (cameo appearance)
 * Priya Bapat as Meenal, first year medical student
 * Pushkar Shrotri as a professor in the medical institute
 * Vishal Thakkar as Karan, a suicidal patient
 * Anuradha Chandan as Karan's mother
 * Khurshed Lawyer as Nagrajan Swami, first year medical student and Munna's roommate
 * Bomi Dotiwala as Rustom's carrom-obsessed father

Early developments
In an interview, Hirani discussed how the idea for the film emerged from his interaction with some friends who were medical students. Later, he also had the opportunity to interact with a lot of medical professionals when some members of his family became sick. These experiences gave birth to the idea for the film.

Hirani initially conceptualised the tale of Munna Bhai M.B.B.S. as a series, and approached R. Madhavan to play the lead role. The actor turned down the offer citing that he was busy with other commitments. After Hirani chose to make into a film, during the scripting stage, he wanted Anil Kapoor to play the lead role. However, Shah Rukh Khan was later cast as Munna along with Sanjay Dutt as Zaheer but due to his back problems Khan was forced to turn down the film. Nevertheless, the end credits of the film thank Khan for his inputs into the script. Hirani also narrated the script to Aishwarya Rai during the time he was in talks with Shahrukh Khan. Khan and Rai were working together on Devdas at the time. Vivek Oberoi was considered for the role, but in the end Sanjay Dutt took the role as Munna, which ultimately gave him an image make over and helped change the public perception of the controversial superstar; his real-life father Sunil Dutt returned to the silver screen after 10 years to play Munna's father. This is the first and only film in which real-life father and son Sunil and Sanjay appear together, although they both appeared in Reshma Aur Shera (1971), Rocky (1981) and Kshatriya (1993) but not in any scenes together.

The original choice for Circuit's role was Makarand Deshpande. Arshad Warsi took over the role which proved to be a turning point for his career. The scenes of the Medical College were shot at the Agriculture College of Pune and Grant Medical College Mumbai.

Accusations of plagiarism
The film has a similar premise to the 1998 American film Patch Adams, starring Robin Williams. The producer Vidhu Vinod Chopra, however, denies there being a resemblance, and says that he had not watched the film before the release of Munna Bhai. Years later, accusations of plagiarism resurfaced on social media when some netizens highlighted scene-to-scene copies.

Lack of budget
Hirani did not have a big budget to shoot the film. As a result, he had to change the way certain scenes were shot. For example, the film ends with stills of Munna Bhai's wedding. Hirani was told that setting up a wedding stage and making a wedding outfit for Gracie Singh would cost him several thousand rupees. To save on some of that money, Hirani arranged to have the stills shot on an actual wedding stage set up for a real wedding near the sets. The production team reached an agreement with the wedding hall management and used their stage after a wedding ended.

Music
The music is composed by Anu Malik. Lyrics for the songs are penned by Abbas Tyrewala and Rahat Indori. Vocals for Dutt were supplied by Vinod Rathod.

According to the Indian trade website Box Office India, with around 1,000,000 units sold, this film's soundtrack album was the year's one of the highest-selling.

Accolades
Munna Bhai M.B.B.S. was the recipient of a number of awards. At the 50th Filmfare Awards, it received the Best Film (Critics), Best Screenplay, the Best Dialogue, and Best Comedian (for Warsi) in addition to four other nominations. It won a number of awards at the 2004 Zee Cine Awards including Best Debuting Director, Best Actor in a Comic Role (for Warsi), Best Cinematography, and Best Dialogue.

Other ceremonies include the 2004 National Film Awards where it won the National Film Award for Best Popular Film and the 2004 International Indian Film Academy Awards where it won the IIFA Best Comedian Award.

Sequel
 In February 2004, after the success of Munna Bhai M.B.B.S., Rajkumar Hirani decided to work on his next project. He, along with his co-writer Abhijat Joshi, started to write the script of their new film. They didn't wanted that script to include Munnabhai but after they wrote it, the script eventually turned out to be of Lage Raho Munna Bhai. Sanjay Dutt, Sunil Dutt, Arshad Warsi and Boman Irani were to reprise their roles but after the death of Sunil in May 2005, Hirani decided that the film will only have Sanjay & Warsi to reprise their characters from Munna Bhai M.B.B.S. and other actors like Boman Irani and Jimmy Shergill were cast in new roles. Lage Raho Munna Bhai was released on 1 September 2006 and turned out to be a huge success.

Remakes
The film was remade in Tamil as Vasool Raja M.B.B.S. (2004), in Telugu as Shankar Dada M.B.B.S. (2004) and in Kannada as Uppi Dada M.B.B.S. (2007).

title: Munna Bhai M.B.B.S.