text:
Győr

Győr (, ; Raab; names in other languages ) is the main city of northwest Hungary, the capital of Győr-Moson-Sopron County and Western Transdanubia region, and – halfway between Budapest and Vienna – situated on one of the important roads of Central Europe. It is the sixth largest city in Hungary, and one of its seven main regional centres. The city has county rights.

History
The area along the Danube River has been inhabited by varying cultures since ancient times. The first large settlement dates back to the 5th century BCE; the inhabitants were Celts. They called the town Ara Bona "Good altar", later contracted to Arrabona, a name which was used until the eighth century. Its shortened form is still used as the German (Raab) and Slovak (Ráb) names of the city.

Roman merchants moved to Arrabona during the 1st century BCE. Around 10 CE, the Roman army occupied the northern part of Western Hungary, which they called Pannonia. Although the Roman Empire abandoned the area in the 4th century due to constant attacks by the tribes living to the east, the town remained inhabited.

Around 500 the territory was settled by Slavs, in 547 by the Lombards, and in 568–c. 800 by the Avars, at that time under Frankish and Slavic influence. During this time it was called Rabba and later Raab. Between 880 and 894, it was part of Great Moravia, and then briefly under East Frankish dominance. The Magyars occupied the town around 900 and fortified the abandoned Roman fortress. Stephen I, the first king of Hungary, founded an episcopate there. The town received its Hungarian name Győr, which likely derives from Old Hungarian personal name Győr, who could be the county's first count. The town was affected by all the trials and tribulations of the history of Hungary: it was occupied by Mongols during the Mongol invasion (1241–1242) and then was destroyed by the Czech army in 1271.

After the disastrous battle of Mohács, Baron Tamás Nádasdy and Count György Cseszneky occupied the town for King Ferdinand I while John Zápolya also was attempting to annex it. During the Ottoman occupation of present-day central and eastern Hungary (1541 - late 17th century), Győr's commander Kristóf Lamberg thought it would be futile to try to defend the town from the Turkish army. He burned down the town and the Turkish forces found nothing but blackened ruins, hence the Turkish name for Győr, Yanık kale ("burnt castle").

During rebuilding, the town was surrounded with a castle and a city wall designed by the leading Italian builders of the era. The town changed in character during these years, with many new buildings built in Renaissance style, but the main square and the grid of streets remained.

In 1594, after the death of Count János Cseszneky, captain of Hungarian footsoldiers, the Ottoman army occupied the castle and the town. In 1598 the Hungarian and Austrian army took control of it again and occupied it. During the Turkish occupation the city was called Yanık Kala (burned place, as a reference to the enormous damages caused by the siege).

In 1683, the Turks returned briefly, only to leave after being defeated in the Battle of Vienna.

During the following centuries, the town became prosperous. In 1743 Győr was elevated to free royal town status by Maria Theresa. The religious orders of Jesuits and Carmelites settled there, building schools, churches, a hospital, and a monastery.

On 14 June 1809, during the War of the Fifth Coalition, this was the site of the Battle of Győr (Battle of Raab), where the army of Eugène de Beauharnais defeated the Hungarian "noble insurrection" (militia) and an Austrian corps under the Archdukes Joseph and Johann. Napoleon's forces occupied the castle and had some of its walls blown up. The leaders of the town soon realized that the old ramparts were not useful any more. Most of the ramparts were destroyed, allowing the town to expand.

In the mid-19th century, Győr's role in trade grew as steamship traffic on the River Danube began. The town lost its importance in trade when the railway line between Budapest and Kanizsa superseded river traffic after 1861. The town leaders compensated for this loss with industrialisation. The town prospered until World War II when several buildings were destroyed. Some large-scale strategic bombing devastated industrial and residential areas as well as the airport. It was targeted because the Rába factory was a main tank (Turán) and aeroplane (Bf 109) producer. One of these raids destroyed some parts of the maternity hospital.

The 1950s and '60s brought more change: only big blocks of flats were built, and the old historical buildings were not given care or attention. In the 1970s the reconstruction of the city centre began; old buildings were restored and reconstructed. In 1989 Győr won the European award for the protection of monuments.

A 100-year-old Raba factory on the River Danube close to the historical centre is to be replaced by a new community called Városrét. The mixed-use community will have residential and commercial space as well as schools, clinics and parks.

The city's main theatre is the National Theatre of Győr, finished in 1978. It features large ceramic ornaments made by Victor Vasarely.

The city has several historical buildings, for example the castle, and the Lutheran Evangelic church.

Climate
Győr's climate is classified as oceanic climate (Köppen Cfb) closely bordering on a humid subtropical climate (Köppen Cfa). Among them, the annual average temperature is 11.1 C, the hottest month in July is 21.6 C, and the coldest month is 0.3 C in January. The annual precipitation is 569.6 mm, of which July is the wettest with 64.8 mm, while February is the driest with only 26.9 mm. The extreme temperature throughout the year ranged from -22.1 C on December 28, 1996 to 40.6 C on August 8, 2013.

Main sights
The ancient core of the city is Káptalan Hill at the confluence of three rivers: the Mosoni-Danube, Rába, and Rábca. Püspökvár, the residence of Győr's bishops, can be easily recognized by its incomplete tower. Győr's oldest buildings are the 13th-century dwelling tower and the 15th-century Gothic Dóczy Chapel. The cathedral, originally in Romanesque style, was rebuilt in Gothic and Baroque style.

Other sights include:
 * Town Hall
 * Benedictine church of St. Ignatius of Loyola
 * Carmelite church
 * Museum of Roman Archaeology

The Pannonhalma Archabbey is located some 20 km outside the town.

Renovation
After the year 2000 the city started many big construction and renovation projects.

The bigger changes include:
 * The Nádor-underpass, which relieved the Downtown's traffic infrastructure, and made the renovation of the Baross-Bridge possible.
 * Renovation of the Baross-Bridge.
 * Renovation of the old Soviet barracks and Bus Station by the company Leier.
 * Development of the Széchenyi István University, which is in close connection with AUDI Hungária ZRT.
 * Newly built Parking Houses which take off the high traffic load of the Downtown area. (e.g. József Attila and Dunakapu garage)
 * Renovation of the inner-downtown district. Széchenyi-square, Dunakapu-square, the territory next to the Moson-Danube and Rába.
 * Free City Bus which can be used by everyone to get anywhere in the Downtown Area.
 * The Győr Arcade at Városliget.
 * The Kálóczy Square near the Széchenyi István University.
 * The Jedlik Bridge, which enabled traffic & transport between Sziget and Révfalu district.
 * The Rába Quelle thermal spa

Economy
Audi AG subsidiary company Audi Hungaria Zrt. has a large factory in Győr, where the Audi TT sports car, the A3 Cabriolet, A3 Limousine, and many engines (1,913,053 engines in 2007) are built. The factory opened in 1994, at first producing inline-four engines for the Audi marque. Business then grew to assembling the Audi TT Coupé and TT Roadster. Eventually, V6 and V8 engines were also included, and after the acquisition of Automobili Lamborghini S.p.A., Audi then began to build V10 engines. The V10s for Audi vehicles are fully assembled here, but only the cylinder blocks for the Lamborghini V10. Engines are also supplied to other Volkswagen Group marques, but over 90% of Audi vehicle engines are made here. By 2020, the factory has a 12 MW solar roof, producing 9.5 GWh/year.

Politics
The current mayor of Győr is Csaba András Dézsi (Fidesz-KDNP).

The local Municipal Assembly, elected at the 2019 local government elections, is made up of 23 members (1 Mayor, 16 Individual constituencies MEPs and 6 Compensation List MEPs) divided into this political parties and alliances:

List of mayors
List of City Mayors from 1990:

Notable people

 * Tamás Bakócz, archbishop
 * Miklós Borsos, sculptor
 * György Cseszneky, count, castellan
 * János Cseszneky, count, infantry commander
 * Josef Dobrovský
 * Freddie
 * Erzsébet Galgóczi, writer
 * Anita Görbicz, handball player
 * Izidor Guzmics
 * Stanley Jaki
 * Ányos Jedlik
 * Andrew Karpati Kennedy, author and literary critic
 * Tamás Kiss, footballer
 * Gyula Kőnig
 * Margit Kovács
 * Raimondo Montecuccoli
 * Árpád Orbán (1938–2008), footballer
 * Desiderius Orban, painter, one of The Eight; emigrated in 1939 to Australia
 * Antal Pusztai
 * Zsófia Rácz, footballer
 * Alexander Raab, pianist
 * Hans Richter, conductor
 * Frigyes Riesz, mathematician
 * Marcel Riesz, mathematician
 * Samuel Aba, king of Hungary
 * József Szlávy, prime minister of Hungary
 * Miklós Takács de Saár, silviculturist, politician
 * Tibor Varga
 * Garcilaso de la Vega, poet
 * Ibolya Verebics, soprano
 * Paul von Werner, Prussian Lieutenant General
 * Emil Zuckerkandl

Transport
The city is a national hub for rail and road traffic. The transport-geographical position of Győr is excellent. The most important railway connections are the Vienna-Budapest railway line, but the Győr-Sopron railway line owned by the Győr-Sopron-Ebenfurt railway company, as well as the Győr-Celldömölk railway line and the Győr-Veszprém railway run by MÁV. In Győr, several main transport routes meet each other (M1, M19, 1, 14, 81, 82, 83, 85), and the motorway is accessible from several parts of the city. Győr-Pér Airport can be reached from the city on Highway 81, 15 kilometers towards Székesfehérvár. At the 1734 km section of the Danube lies the port of Győr-Gönyű with its fully equipped 25 hectare serving terminal.

Sports
Győr is the home of the Győri ETO Sport Club, which has many sport divisions. The most popular sport in the city is handball, with the Győri ETO KC being the city's main team. ETO won the Champions League in 2013, 2014, 2017, 2018 and in 2019 and also reached the final in 2009, 2012 and in 2016. In addition, Győr reached the final of the EHF Cup Winners' Cup in 2006 and the final of the EHF Cup in 1999, 2002, 2004 and 2005.

WKW ETO FC Győr is a football team, currently (as of 2023/2024) in the Hungarian Second Division.

Twin towns – sister cities
Győr is twinned with:

 * 🇷🇴 Brașov, Romania
 * 🇫🇷 Colmar, France
 * 🇩🇪 Erfurt, Germany
 * 🇩🇪 Ingolstadt, Germany
 * 🇫🇮 Kuopio, Finland
 * 🇷🇺 Nizhny Novgorod, Russia
 * 🇮🇱 Nof HaGalil, Israel
 * 🇵🇱 Poznań, Poland
 * 🇩🇪 Sindelfingen, Germany
 * 🇨🇳 Wuhan, China
 * 🇸🇰 Dunajská Streda, Slovakia

title: Győr


text:
Flophouse

A flophouse (American English) or doss-house (British English) is a place that has very low-cost lodging, providing space to sleep and minimal amenities.

Characteristics
Historically, flophouses, or British "doss-houses", have been used for overnight lodging by those who needed the lowest-cost alternative to staying with others, shelters, or sleeping outside. Generally, rooms are small, bathrooms are shared, and bedding is minimal, sometimes with mattresses or mats on the floor, or canvas sheets stretched between two horizontal beams creating a series of hammock-like beds.

People who make use of these places have often been called transients and have been between homes. Quarters are typically very small, and may resemble office cubicles more than a regular room in a hotel or an apartment building. Some flophouses qualify as boarding houses, but only if they offer meals.

American flophouses date at least to the 19th century, but the term flophouse itself is only attested from around the early 1900s, originating in hobo slang. In the past, flophouses were sometimes called lodging houses or workingmen's hotels and catered to hobos and transient workers such as seasonal railroad and agriculture workers, or migrant lumberjacks who would travel west during the summer to work and then return to an eastern or midwestern city which ran along the rail lines, such as Chicago, to stay in a flophouse during the winter. This is described in the 1930 novel The Rambling Kid by Charles Ashleigh and the 1976 book The Human Cougar by Lloyd Morain. Another theme in Morain's book is the gentrification which was then beginning and which has led cities to pressure flophouses to close. Some city districts with flophouses in abundance became well known in their own right, such as the Bowery in Manhattan, New York City. Since the middle 20th century, reforms there have gradually made flophouses scarcer. The resulting gentrification and higher real-estate value have further eroded the ability of flophouses and inexpensive boarding-style hotels to make a profit.

21st-century revival
In the 2010s, the high cost of housing in cities such as San Francisco saw an increase in the number of flophouses. The modern flophouses, sometimes marketed as "pods", usually have partitions between beds for privacy, and are created from existing houses or apartments. They are often marketed toward commuters who stay in the city during the workweek.

Cage homes in Hong Kong
Cage homes were built in colonial Hong Kong in the 1950s for single working men from Mainland China. Cage homes are described as "wire mesh cages resembling rabbit hutches crammed into a dilapidated apartment." As of 2012, the number of impoverished residents in Hong Kong was estimated at 1.19 million, and cage homes, along with substandard housing such as cubicle apartments, were still serving a portion of this sector's housing needs. The combination of high rents and income inequality has been given as one reason that cage homes persist.

Michael Adorjan, a University of Hong Kong criminology professor, has noted that "The United Nations has called cage and cubicle homes an 'insult to human dignity.'"

Cage hotels in the United States
Cage hotels, a form of single-room occupancy, were common in Chicago at the turn of the 20th century; an estimated 40,000 to 60,000 people lived in them during the winter.

"These were lofts or other large, open buildings that were subdivided into tiny cubicles using boards or sheets of corrugated iron. Since these walls were always one to three feet short of the floor or ceiling, the open space was sealed off with chicken wire, hence the name "cage hotels.""

A 1958 survey by Christopher Jencks found that homeless men preferred cage hotels over shelters for reasons of privacy and security.

A similar preference for cage hotels over shelters was reported in turn of the century New York City, where single working men ranked their housing preference in the following order:

"They preferred lodging and boarding houses to cages, cages to dormitories, dormitories to flops, and flops to the city's shelters. Men could act on these preferences by moving as their incomes increased."

"Regulatory efforts to combat low-cost 'cage hotels,' ... [has been] a driver of the expansion of the homeless population in US cities", according to Jencks. By 2021, only one, the Ewing Annex Hotel, remained in Chicago, housing some 200 men, many of whom would otherwise be homeless.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Flophouse


text: Category:Devo albums

title: Category:Devo albums


text:
Talk:Freedom of Choice (album)

"Freedom of Choice" Lyrics question
In the song "Freedom of Choice" includes the lyrics:

in ancient Rome there was a poem

about a dog who found two bones

he picked at one

he licked the other

he went in circles

he dropped dead

Anyone know what poem from ancient Rome (if any) they're referring to?

--RevWaldo 18:55, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

Mr. B's Ballroom?
What is Mr. B's Ballroom about? Kingturtle (talk) 20:18, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

Track Commentary
Do we really need a track commentary for this section? A lot of the claims seem to be unverified. It would be nice to have confirmation from band members via interviews or other articles for the claims of the track meanings. Therefore, I've flagged the section as "original research." I also think the material could be better merged into the main description of the album. David Delony (talk) 16:54, 23 September 2009 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Freedom of Choice (album). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20121024043311/http://charts.org.nz/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Devo to http://charts.org.nz/showinterpret.asp?interpret=Devo

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 10:15, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Freedom of Choice (album). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140329002832/http://grooveshark.com/ to http://grooveshark.com/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 17:19, 7 October 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Freedom of Choice (album). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20100107023946/http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS129547+16-Sep-2009+BW20090916 to https://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS129547+16-Sep-2009+BW20090916

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 09:18, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

Release date
The release date was recently changed from 1980 to 1979, any source for that? Binarystep (talk) 11:19, 23 March 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 13:22, 23 May 2022 (UTC)
 * FreedomOfChoiceHQ.jpg

title: Talk:Freedom of Choice (album)


text:
Yakovlev Yak-141

The Yakovlev Yak-141 (Яковлев Як-141; NATO reporting name "Freestyle"), also known as the Yak-41, is a Soviet supersonic vertical takeoff/landing (VTOL) fighter aircraft designed by Yakovlev. Intended as a replacement for the Yak-38, it was designed as a supersonic fleet defence fighter capable of STOVL/VTOL operating from Soviet carriers. Four prototypes were built before the project's cancellation.

Design and development
Yakovlev always believed the Yak-38 to be an interim aircraft, developed to gain experience designing and developing military VTOL aircraft. Even before the Yak-38's introduction, the Soviet Navy desired a more comprehensive aircraft, with greater capabilities than the Yak-38 offered. The result was a design contract offered to Yakovlev in 1975. The requirement was for an aircraft with only one mission: air defense of the fleet. Unlike the Yak-38, this aircraft was to have sustained supersonic speed. Maneuverability, radar and weapons loads were expected to be similar to those of current front-line fighters, such as the Su-27 and MiG-29. For the Soviet Navy this aircraft was to be their next generation VTOL fighter. For Yakovlev the aircraft was viewed as a way of returning to designing Soviet fighter aircraft.

Because of the importance and complexity of the project, Alexander Sergeyevich Yakovlev assigned a large portion of his OKB to the development of the new VTOL fighter, with no fewer than ten chief engineers working simultaneously on what was called "Product 48" (the military had designated it Yak-41). Over fifty designs were studied. One key problem was designing an aircraft with both vectoring thrust and an afterburner, which was essential for sustained supersonic speeds. A twin-engine design was considered, but abandoned as the loss of an engine on landing would result in an immediate roll to the side. Eventually it was decided that the best arrangement was a single vectoring nozzle located just behind the center of gravity, as well as dedicated vertical thrust jets positioned just behind the cockpit. A considerable amount of time was spent in the development of a flat, rectangular nozzle similar to that later employed on the American F-22 Raptor. Such a nozzle proved well-suited for the changes in configuration needed for both thrust vectoring and supersonic flight, and allowed for a thin, shallow tail. Ultimately, a circular nozzle was used, located between twin booms supporting the twin-finned tail.

Parts subject to excessive heat from the engines during landing were manufactured of titanium, and no less than 26% of the overall aircraft was to be manufactured of graphite or composite material. Because of heat build-up, hovering was restricted to no more than 2$1/2$ minutes.

All three engines were controlled through an interlinked digital system, which was capable of controlling both engine start-up as well as modulating the thrust of all three engines during landing and hovering flight. Twin tandem reaction control jets were positioned at the wingtips, while a swiveling yaw jet was positioned under the nose.

The cockpit was pressurized and air-conditioned. The small canopy was bulletproof in front. It hinged to the right, but because of a long dorsal spine it had no rear vision. The ejection seat was automatically armed as soon as the engine duct was rotated past 30 degrees with an airspeed of less than 300 km/h (162 kn / 186 mph). The instrumentation in the prototypes was simple and similar to that planned for the earlier Yak-36M. The production version was to have been fitted with an extensive avionics and weapons suite including doppler radar, laser-TV ranging and aiming, as well as a heads-up multifunction display (HUD) which worked in connection with a helmet-mounted missile aiming system as found on the Mikoyan MiG-29. This system allows the pilot to lock onto an enemy aircraft by turning his head as far as 80 degrees from front.

The undercarriage was tricycle, and equipped with the latest multi-disc, anti-skid brakes. The steerable nose wheel retracted to the rear, while the main gear retracted forward.

The top-mounted wing was similar to that of the Yakovlev Yak-36, though the outer panel swept back, and could be folded up for shipboard storage. The main engine was served by four side-mounted ducts as well as a row of large louvers along the upper surface to allow air to enter the engine during full power hovering. This engine was the R-79V-300, a two-shaft augmented turbofan with a bypass ratio of 1. Maximum thrust was 14,000 kg (30,864 lb). The rear nozzle could rotate from 0 degrees to 95 degrees for VTOL landing and hovering. The two lift engines were the RD-41 design, a simple single-shaft engine made mostly of titanium. Each had a thrust of 4,100 kg (9,040 lb). The engines were installed behind the cockpit at an angle of 85 degrees. Like the Yak-38, the engines received their air through eight spring-operated dorsal flaps, and the exhaust exited through a belly opening covered by two ventral doors.

Yakovlev obtained funding for four prototypes. The first (48-0, with no callsign) was a bare airframe for static and fatigue testing. The second (48-1, call sign "48") was a non-flying powerplant testbed. The third and fourth (48-2 and 48-3, call signs "75" and "77") were for flight testing. While 48-1 remained unpainted, 48-2 and 48-3 were painted in overall grey, with a black radome and fin cap antennas.

Operational history
The first conventional flight, using 48–2, took place at Zhukovsky on 9 March 1987, with chief test pilot Sinitsyn at the controls. He made the first hovering flight on 29 December 1989 flying 48–3, and used the same aircraft to make the first complete transition from vertical to high-speed flight and vertical landing on 13 June 1990. From April 1991, various kinds of rolling take-off and run-on landings were performed on normal runways and also "ski-jump" ramps at the lift jet center at Saky. Throughout its testing, the aircraft demonstrated excellent combat maneuvers. Chief test pilot Sinitsyn went on to set twelve new world class records, but as the Yak-41 designation was classified, the records were submitted under the fictitious name "Yak-141". As a result, the previously unknown aircraft came to be known in the west as the "Yak-141". In 1992, Yakovlev repainted both flying aircraft in olive/grey camouflage, with the Russian tricolor insignia, and painted a white "141" on both aircraft in place of their previous call signs, "75" and 77".

On 26 September 1991, Sinitsyn made the first vertical landing on the aircraft carrier Admiral Gorshkov (ex-Baku) in 48-2. An hour later, Vladimir A. Yakimov landed 48-3 on the same deck. The pilots would go on to make eight flights from the ship until Yakimov made a hard landing on 5 October. The undercarriage ruptured a fuel tank, causing a serious fire. After almost 30 seconds, Yakimov ejected successfully, and was rescued from the sea. The aircraft was later repaired and placed on display. That same month the Soviet Navy announced that no further funds were available to continue the program. The factory at Smolensk had anticipated this and had not constructed the tooling for production.

Yak-41 or Yak-141
The design was initially designated the Yak-41M by the Soviet military. Once testing commenced, and the two prototypes began accumulating numerous world class records, it became necessary to invent a designation for use in the west, as the name Yak-41M was classified. The designation Yak-141 was selected, and it was by this name that the aircraft became known to western allies, though officially the aircraft's designation remained Yak-41M within the Soviet military. In 1991 Lockheed-Martin entered into partnership with Yakovlev to further develop an aircraft they had always known as the Yak-141. Largely as a result of this agreement, by 1992 Yakovlev changed the aircraft's designation to Yak-141 for the two flyable prototypes. Series production in Russia could further change the designation.

Cooperation with Lockheed
Following the announcement by the CIS in September 1991 that it could no longer fund development of the Yak-41M, Yakovlev entered into discussions with several foreign partners who could help fund the program. Lockheed Corporation, which was in the process of developing the X-35 for the US Joint Strike Fighter program, stepped forward, and with their assistance aircraft 48-2 was displayed at the Farnborough Airshow in September 1992. Yakovlev announced that they had reached an agreement with Lockheed for funds of $385 to $400 million for three new prototypes and an additional static test aircraft to test improvements in design and avionics. Planned modifications for the proposed Yak-41M included an increase in STOL weight to 21,500 kg (47,400 lb). One of the prototypes would have been a dual-control trainer. Though no longer flyable, both 48-2 and 48-3 were exhibited at the 1993 Moscow airshow. The partnership began in late 1991, though it was not publicly revealed by Yakovlev until 6 September 1992, and was not revealed by Lockheed until June 1994.

Variants

 * Yak-41
 * The two flying prototypes and ground test article.

 * Yak-41M
 * Proposed production aircraft with large LERXs (leading-edge root extensions) and other improvements, particularly in the avionic suite.

 * Yak-43 (Izdeliye 201)
 * A proposed development of the Yak-41M 'Freehand' equipped with Kuznetsov NK-321 engines.

 * Yak-141
 * Designation originally applied to a single Yak-41 for disinformation and propaganda purposes when registering records with the FAI (Fédération Aéronautique Internationale) and later for promotional purposes by Yakovlev.

Operators

 * Soviet Navy
 * Soviet Naval Aviation
 * Soviet Naval Aviation

Surviving aircraft

 * Yak-41M (s/n 48-2, call sign "75") is on display at the Central Air Force Museum at Monino. The aircraft is displayed in its 1992 livery with olive/grey camouflage markings.
 * Yak-41M (s/n 48-3, call sign "77") is on display at the Yakovlev OKB Museum. The aircraft is displayed in its 1992 livery with olive/grey camouflage markings and "141" painted in white in place of the former call sign.

title: Yakovlev Yak-141


text:
Renal agenesis

Renal agenesis is a medical condition in which one (unilateral) or both (bilateral) fetal kidneys fail to develop.

Unilateral and bilateral renal agenesis in humans, mice and zebra fish has been linked to mutations in the gene GREB1L. It has also been associated with mutations in the genes RET or UPK3A in humans and mice respectively.

Bilateral
Bilateral renal agenesis (BRA) is a condition in which both kidneys of a fetus fail to develop during gestation. It is incompatible with life. It is one causative agent of Potter sequence. This absence of kidneys causes oligohydramnios, a deficiency of amniotic fluid in a pregnant woman, which can place extra pressure on the developing baby and cause further malformations. The condition is frequently, but not always the result of a genetic disorder, and is more common in infants born to one or more parents with a malformed or absent kidney.

Unilateral
This is much more common, but is not usually of any major health consequence, as long as the single kidney is healthy. However, this kidney tends to be hypertrophied, ectopic and prone to infection and damage.

It may be associated with an increased incidence of Müllerian duct abnormalities, which are abnormalities of the development of the female reproductive tract and can be a cause of infertility, blocked menstrual flow (hematocolpos), increased need for Caesarean sections, or other problems. Herlyn–Werner–Wunderlich syndrome is one such syndrome in which unilateral renal agenesis is combined with a blind hemivagina and uterus didelphys. Up to 40% of women with a urogenital tract anomaly also have an associated renal tract anomaly.

Adults with unilateral renal agenesis have considerably higher chances of hypertension (high blood pressure). People with this condition are advised to approach contact sports with caution.

A possible complication later in life of unilateral renal agenesis is focal segmental glomerular sclerosis (FSGS) which will cause nephrotic syndrome, potentially resulting from glomerular overload.

Genetics
In 2008 researchers found autosomal dominant mutations in the RET and GDNF genes to be linked to renal agenesis in unrelated stillborn fetuses through PCR and direct sequence analysis. In the study, DNA from 33 stillborn fetuses were sequenced for mutations in RET, GDNF and GFRA1. Nineteen of the fetuses had BRA, ten had URA and 4 had congenital renal dysplasia. Seven of the 19 BRA fetuses were found to have a mutation in the RET gene (37%), while two of the ten URA fetuses did (20%). One of the URA fetuses had two RET mutations and one GDNF mutation. There were no GFRA1 mutations found.

However, the results of Skinner et al. study were questioned by a more recent study with a larger number of cases. In this study 105 fetuses were analyzed. Sixty-five fetuses had BRA while 24 had URA with an abnormal contralateral kidney. Mutations in the RET gene were only found in seven of the fetuses (6.6%).

In 2014 researchers found autosomal recessive mutations in ITGA8 in three members of two unrelated families utilizing exome sequencing. One of the families was consanguineous.

In 2017 researchers identified heritable autosomal dominant mutations in the gene GREB1L in two unrelated families as being the cause of both BRA and URA utilizing Exome Sequencing and direct sequencing analysis. This is the first reported genetic lesion implicated in the activation of Retinoic Acid Receptor (RAR) Targets that has been associated with renal agenesis in humans. The researchers found two different GREB1L mutations, each being unique to their respective pedigrees. In total, there were 23 individuals analyzed between the two families, four of which had BRA and five of which had URA. GREB1L mutations were identified in all of the affected individuals as well as in three unaffected family members, demonstrating incomplete penetrance and variable expressivity.

There are several hundred to perhaps several thousand genes that, if they had the right kind of mutation, could lead to renal agenesis in humans. It is possible that each individual or family experiencing renal agenesis has a unique gene or genetic mutation causing the condition due to the fact that there are so many genes that are critical to proper renal development.

Chromosomal anomalies have been associated with BRA in certain cases (chromosomes 1, 2, 5 and 21), but these anomalies were not inherited and have not been observed in subsequent cases. Additionally, neither extreme substance abuse or environmental factors (high power line, mercury, ground water issues, etc.) have been reported to be linked to an increased incidence of BRA or other cause of Potter sequence. However, renal agenesis and other causes of oligohydramnios sequence have been linked to a number of other conditions and syndromes to include Down syndrome, Kallmann syndrome, branchio-oto-renal syndrome and others.

Prevalence
The prevalence of unilateral renal agenesis in the population is approximately 1 in about 1000 people. Bilateral agenesis occurs in 1 in about 2500 foetuses.

title: Renal agenesis


text:
Diaphysis

The diaphysis (: diaphyses) is the main or midsection (shaft) of a long bone. It is made up of cortical bone and usually contains bone marrow and adipose tissue (fat).

It is a middle tubular part composed of compact bone which surrounds a central marrow cavity which contains red or yellow marrow. In diaphysis, primary ossification occurs.

Ewing sarcoma tends to occur at the diaphysis.

title: Diaphysis


text:
HMS Venerable

Four ships of the British Royal Navy have been named HMS Venerable:
 * The first HMS Venerable (1784), launched in 1784, was a 74-gun third rate. She was Admiral Adam Duncan's flagship at the Battle of Camperdown and was wrecked in 1804.
 * The second HMS Venerable (1808), launched in 1808, was also a 74-gun third rate, on harbour service from 1825, and broken up in 1838.
 * The third HMS Venerable (1899), launched in 1899, was a Formidable-class battleship, sold in 1920.
 * The fourth HMS Venerable (R63), launched in 1943, was a Colossus-class aircraft carrier. She was sold to the Royal Netherlands Navy in 1948 and renamed HNLMS Karel Doorman (R81), and later sold to the Argentine Navy and renamed ARA Veinticinco de Mayo.

title: HMS Venerable


text:
Category:Pages needing attention

This category lists pages associated with Pages needing attention. See Category:Wikipedia cleanup and for articles in need of attention. See Template messages/Cleanup for a list of more specific template messages.

title: Category:Pages needing attention


text:
Talk:Periodic points of complex quadratic mappings

Introduction
Instead of this: "This page will probably make a great deal more sense if you first read etc. etc." could we write a sentence or two or three in English putting this in a very general context. to give the non-mathematical reader some vague idea of what this is? The following is just hoo-hah, because this topic is way over my head, but something with this level of tone and specificity would be nice: Period Points Julia Set is one of a large variety of mathematical entities within the Mandelbrot set, important to mathematicians because it provides a link between the "chaos" aspects of that well-known form and certain types of higher algebra.

Having made this request, I realize that translating math into layman-talk is *very* hard to do. - DavidWBrooks 14:33, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC) joy

Can some one provide reference to Orbit portrait page...? I tried to introduce 'See Also' section in the article. It seemed to affect the contents section. So canceled the edit. Another layman looking at random pages. --Antariki Vandanamu 13:01, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

This page needs reworking. The Language and structure are not up to Wikipedia standards. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.255.81 (talk) 11:49, 26 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 external links on Periodic points of complex quadratic mappings. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110717033213/http://www.math.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~kawahira/works/cauliflower.pdf to http://www.math.nagoya-u.ac.jp/~kawahira/works/cauliflower.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080511195806/http://www.ibiblio.org/e-notes/MSet/Attractor.htm to http://www.ibiblio.org/e-notes/MSet/Attractor.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080511195806/http://www.ibiblio.org/e-notes/MSet/Attractor.htm to http://www.ibiblio.org/e-notes/MSet/Attractor.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 21:15, 15 December 2017 (UTC)


text:
Talk:No More Tears

Merge?

 * See discussion at Hellraiser (song). – B.hotep u/t• 20:32, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Keyboards?
Who played keyboards on this album? I know they're definately there, they can be plainly heard on several of the songs, but I don't see any information listed on the page as to who played them. Anyone know?

--Rock Soldier 22:05, 8 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Jon Sinclair. Funeral 22:09, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

I Don't Want To Change The World
Shouldn't it be noted that this is Ozzy's only Grammy award winning album, due to his winning for the song "I Don't Want To Change The World"? Revrant (talk) 01:30, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Is this true? I can't find any verification, if you have verification please add. -J04n (talk) 01:48, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes it is, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grammy_Awards_of_1994 should be pretty easy to find. Revrant (talk) 01:40, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Thanks, added. Found it also referenced on AllMususic.  Interestingly, it is one of the few tracks on this album without its own cite. -J04n (talk) 02:03, 22 February 2009 (UTC)

Original and 1995 reissue
In the information box it says the CD had a 1991 release an also a 1995 issue, and that the lengths of them are different. Does anybody knows what are the differences? It has the same songs? What does it change in them? Khullah (talk) 01:35, 25 August 2009 (UTC)

Lemmy
The Background section says Lemmy wrote the lyrics for four songs, but the track listing section only credits him on "I Don't Want to Change the World". Which other three songs did he write the lyrics for? Graham king 3 (talk) 23:55, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:No More Tears


text:
Talk:Diary of a Madman (album)

Fair use rationale for Image:Diary of a madman.jpg
Image:Diary of a madman.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 20:24, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Merge discussion, April 2013
The page for the album track Over the Mountain is a stub with little potential for expansion. There is zero content about the song in the article that isn't already expressed here. It seems very clear to me that it should be merged with the album article per guidelines. I attempted to do so on the grounds that the song does not meet notability guidelines per NSONGS but another editor reverted my attempt.

 * Merge as nominator. ChakaKongtalk 11:27, 11 April 2013 (UTC)

 * The article should be kept separate since it passes two different parts of WP:NSONGS, it has been ranked on a national music chart and has been released by four different notable groups. Aspects (talk) 17:43, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Notability aside, a standalone article is only appropriate when there is enough material to warrant a reasonably detailed article. This is clearly not the case. An article unlikely to ever grow beyond a stub should be merged to the article about the artist or album, which is what we are attempting to do here in accordance with the very same guidelines you are quoting. ChakaKongtalk 21:02, 11 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I think sufficient time has passed and no reasonable argument has been made opposing the merge. I'll wait a couple of more days for input, and then if nothing changes I'll proceed with the merge as proposed. ChakaKongtalk 14:11, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I think you should let more time pass as we are the only two editors have added opinions about the merge, this is not an action that has to happen quickly and a consensus has not been reached. I offered a reasonable argument against the merge and just because you are in favor of it does not make my argument unreasonable.  You have provided no evidence in that the article is unlikely to grow beyond a stub and in fact two editors have added material with references since the merge template was added and Jo4n removed the no sources template since it now has sources. Aspects (talk) 16:01, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Oppose: the single charted, it's been covered by multiple acts and the page has been expanded and better sourced since this discussion began. J04n(talk page) 20:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)
 * I've put out a call for some unbiased third party opinions. Hopefully we'll get it settled. ChakaKongtalk 21:16, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Oppose. The song appears to be notable in its own right, considering its hart positions; also, the article does have several reputable sources attached (even though last.fm fails the WP:RS guidelines). Mungo Kitsch (talk) 21:31, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

I think the article should be kept, it is notable in it's own right and has adequate sources at the moment to justify most of the information in the article. Borgarde (talk) 01:45, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

OK, well it does appear that there is sufficient consensus to scrap the merge. Thanks to everyone for contributing to the discussion. ChakaKongtalk 15:40, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 3 one external links on Diary of a Madman (album). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150715214525/http://www.kkdowning.net/interviews/leekerslake.html to http://kkdowning.net/interviews/leekerslake.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160303223308/http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/films-videos-sound-recordings/rpm/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=425& to http://www.bac-lac.gc.ca/eng/discover/films-videos-sound-recordings/rpm/Pages/item.aspx?IdNumber=425&
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070626174049/http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php to http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 13:47, 12 December 2016 (UTC)

Release date controversy
Ray1983a's constant reverting the edits to this page regarding the release of this album has led me to investigate the actual release date of this album.

Ozzy's website states 7 November 1981: https://www.ozzy.com/music/list

Many other websites state 7 November 1981: https://www.discogs.com/master/41160-Ozzy-Osbourne-Diary-Of-A-Madman

The back cover of the 2002 re-issue states November 1981: https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/51mheyCe5aL._UF1000,1000_QL80_.jpg

The external link at the bottom of the page leads to the same discogs page that states 7 November 1981 as a release date.

Without a reliable source explicitly stating otherwise, there is no reason 7 November 1981 should not be the release date listed in the article Cdeichman (talk) 22:56, 3 October 2023 (UTC)

 * OK, there seems to be confusion on how LP and single releases work.
 * As can be seen at the official UK charts website, "Diary of a Madman" debut on the album charts was Saturday 7 November 1981.
 * This is not the release date, as any chart entry reflects the sales up til and including the previous Saturday. In our case here, looking at the calender of 1981, that means the LP by necessity was released on 30 October 1981, or earlier. Whatever the exact date is, it had to be October, which is what Martin Strong's book indeed states.
 * So why does Ozzy.com still says it was released on 7 November? Well, that's the problem with circular reporting. A website can use Wikipedia as its source, while someone else then might us that website as a source added on Wikipedia. Which means the incorrect date keeps going back and forth. Ray1983a (talk) 00:05, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Diary of a Madman (album)


text:
Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/User:Guanaco versus User:Lir/Proposed decision

It would require any administrator who blocks a user to set forth at least a reference to the section of Blocking policy on which they rely in order for the block to be presumed valid and not subject to immediate reversal. Reasons like "troll", or "disruptive" would not be acceptable.

 * I like that :-) SweetLittleFluffyThing 14:37, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * When a Wikipedia administrator discovers an instance where a block was made without appropriate reference to the Wikipedia:Blocking policy, that administrator has the responsibility to reverse the block and post a note on the offending Wikipedia administrators talk page requesting an explanation of the administrators action.

 * So if a sysop is found to have read the block log and not reversed an inappropriate block, they could be desysopped for that? Seriously? How on earth is such a thing enforceable? What's the point of this statement? Angela. 17:33, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)

 * Negatively sanctioning an administrator who doesn't reverse a block is not contemplated. After all, how would anyone know? It just gives a green light to those who chose to unblock and tells them to check with whoever made the original block. However, feel free to rephrase. Fred Bauder 17:46, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)

 * My point was that you were claiming they had the responsibility to do that rather than just saying they could if they wanted to. The current wording seems much better. Angela. 21:14, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)

Blocking policy is not under the perview of the arbitration committee, and for them to try to set policy as the result of an arbitration decision is beyond the scope of the committee's charter. RickK 22:03, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)

 * The idea has merit but should not be determined by a small set of arbitrators. Why isn't this presented to the community for vote? -  Tεx  τ  urε  00:25, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * In effect it is being presented to the community, both on the mailing list and here. The enforcement of abstract but valid Wikipedia policy necessarily involves this sort of searching for an acceptable enforcement policy. The alternative is to say, well it may be policy, but there is no enforcement mechanism, and each violation must either be accepted or else submitted to dispute resolution. Fred Bauder 00:36, Aug 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * "In effect"? How about notifying the average user?  This is a lost place but for the most hard core Wikipedian.  My issue is the expectation of a change in admin policy that is being backwards-engineered by a small arbitration panel.  You are removing actions the average user depends on without the process of public discussion.  This isn't a secret meeting but the equivalent of not announcing a policy discussion to the public.  Surprised when no one who isn't in the know comes?  Interested parties didn't know about it.  What I am suggesting is that the arbitration panel decision pages are the wrong place to make policy.  Decision pages would be good for suggesting a policy change that would move to the public pages for those who have no idea who Lir is.  Where is the vote on this policy change, btw? I'd like to add mine. -  Tεx  τ  urε  19:02, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, the average user isn't a sysop, and the average sysop doesn't use blocks much, and when they do they normally explain why ("vandalism"). So this is only going to effect a few people, realistically. I'm unclear how we are "removing actions the average user depends on" - does the average user depend on sysops blocking accounts without explaining why they are blocked? Or, does the average user depend on sysops blocking accounts in ways that go against policy? If that second one is true, I think that's a problem with the policy... and arbcome doesn't decide the policy, we just enforce it.

 * On which note, we've been asked to enforce a blocking policy. We could enforce that by desysoping the three sysops mentioned, but that seems heavy-handed. Requiring sysops to explain their blocks, on the other hand, is light-handed, but will probably be much more effective. This is not the first time we've made such a ruling - if you recall, we required Wik to explain his reverts. Still, a ruling on all sysops is more general than a ruling specifically to Wik, so I can see there's a difference in extent. Martin 20:31, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Let's throw out the average user and talk about one user. I barely know who Lir is and have little idea of any trouble he has made.  I had no reason to read a proposed decision against him.  How are admins to know about this unannounced new policy change?  Why should something they do be invalidated because you failed to give them guidance?  This should be a discussion on administrator policy pages, not here.  Here there should be a recommendation to add it to those policies.  That would take the discussion to where it belongs.  (Don't read anything into this that I'm not writing.  I would vote for such a recommended change. It just doesn't belong here.) -  Tεx  τ  urε  18:08, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I don't see a problem with protecting users who have unpopular opinions. I see a problem with disruptive editors. There's a clear difference between the two, and if the Wikipedia community can't discern it, I'm left with no other choice than to just assume the Wikipedia community is stupid. And if there's not something put in place to get these people off of here, my leave of absence will be permanent. I'm not working free for an encyclopedia written by stupid people. - Hephaestos|§ 02:13, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Blocking of disruptive users is a proposed policy, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Blocking_policy#Disruption Fred Bauder 02:46, Aug 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * Yeah I saw that. It was proposed 9 April. I voted for it. What's its status? - Hephaestos|§ 02:49, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Where did my vote go, for that matter? April, I guess. April 1 I guess. Trolling, I guess. Get the point yet? - Hephaestos|§ 03:50, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * There was no vote on blocking disruptive users, IIRC. You are probably thinking of the vote on blocking people with inappropriate usernames, which I started and which currently resides at Wikipedia talk:Username. Martin 17:59, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * The difference between that policy and the others on that page seems to be that "Trolls of Navarone" marked it as proposed and left the others alone. Is that the only difference between "policy" and "proposed policy"? - Nunh-huh 03:57, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Not at all. For example, since before I came to Wikipedia, blocking has been one way we deal with persistent vandals. Thus, it is longstanding policy, and policy by virtue of age and precedent. By contrast, alowing admins to block users for being "trolls" or for being "disruptive" was a recent proposal, and realistically required a demonstration (of whatever kind) of general consensus support to be more than a proposal. Various "trolling polls" in recent days may have provided this support - or maybe not. Judging what is and is not actual policy is not a trivial business, which is one of the factors making the lives of the arbcom harder. Martin 17:33, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I'm not sure as to the current status of the disruptive clause. The "trolls" took an interest in the question as whether they could be banned simply for having "troll" in their name was at issue. There are several editors who have been of interest to the arbitration committee, such as Wik, who could fairly be said to be disruptive, but that was not used in their cases. Fred Bauder 12:01, Aug 1, 2004 (UTC)

brief interlude

 * I've clarified it so that only new user accounts such as User:Mellow (a sockpuppet created to vote on Lir's RfA) can be blocked. It also now prohibits reblocking if the block is disputed. Guanaco 16:50, Aug 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * Disputed by how many people? If it's disputed by one admin, I don't see that as a reason to disallow a reblock. If there is a consensus that someone shouldn't be reblocked then that's a different matter, but the policy shouldn't allow one admin to enforce their own view that no one should ever be blocked. Angela. 21:14, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)

 * Does any admin actually have that view? Martin 22:26, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't know. Anyway, it could still be used to enforce other idiosyncratic views held by one sysop even if it wasn't as extreme as believing no one should be blocked. Angela. 07:37, Aug 4, 2004 (UTC)

 * A good point. In any case we are talking about making and clarifying policy here, which isn't an arbitration matter. Martin 18:34, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

back on topic
My recollection of conversations around the time (eg on IRC) was that it was deemed failed - insufficient support generally (and for parallel proposals, such as allowing easier blocks of usernames), specific objections by a troll and an anti-authoritarian, and a lack of specific support (few comments). It probably could have been, had it been advertised more heavily, but everyone involved had other priorities at the time - wasn't seen as worth the effort.

Guanaco's attempt today to edit it for wider acceptability and make it official probably has a better chance of success - I'll be interested to see how it pans out - but I don't think it can be considered retrospective. Martin 16:55, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I've added #3, which I think addresses the concerns here. I don't think #1 really is a problem, but I think #3 will be just as effective in enforcing, without being as controversial. Martin 20:49, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Though Raul654 doesn't like it, I see. Can please some of the people some of the time... ;-) Martin 15:29, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)


text:
Advisory Committee on Antarctic Names

The Advisory Committee on Antarctic Names (ACAN or US-ACAN) is an advisory committee of the United States Board on Geographic Names responsible for recommending commemorative names for features in Antarctica.

History
The committee was established in 1943 as the Special Committee on Antarctic Names (SCAN). It became the Advisory Committee on Antarctic Names in 1947. Fred G. Alberts was Secretary of the Committee from 1949 to 1980.

By 1959, a structured nomenclature was reached, allowing for further exploration, structured mapping of the region and a unique naming system. A 1990 ACAN gazeeter of Antarctica listed 16,000 names.

Description
The United States does not recognise territorial boundaries within Antarctica, so ACAN assigns names to features anywhere within the continent, in consultation with other national nomenclature bodies where appropriate, as defined by the Antarctic Treaty System. The research and staff support for the ACAN is provided by the United States Geological Survey.

ACAN has a published policy on naming, based on priority of application, appropriateness, and the extent to which usage has become established. The United States Secretary of the Interior is in charge of formally appointing the members of the committee.

Named places

 * Abbot Ice Shelf, named after R. Admiral James Lloyd Abbot Jr., U. S. Commanding Officer
 * Anderson Scarp, named after Kent Anderson
 * Anthony Bluff, named after Captain Alexander Anthony, United States Air Force
 * Ashworth Glacier, named after Allan C. Ashworth Joneses Creek name after Tampa Jones from lake Mississippi fresh cold water stream door of the ice wall
 * Banded Bluff, named for the bands of snow and rock on the bluff face
 * Becker Point, named after Robert A. Becker
 * Bennett Saddle, named after Gerard A. Bennett, traverse specialist
 * Beyl Head, named after Commander David D. Beyl, U.S. Navy
 * Bird Bluff, named after Commander Charles F. Bird
 * Blessing Bluff, named after Commander George R. Blessing, U.S. Navy
 * Brandau Glacier, named after James F. Brandau, U.S. Navy
 * Brandau Rocks, named after James F. Brandau, U.S. Navy
 * Brien Rocks, named after Robert J. Brien, aviation electronics technician
 * Brookman Point, named after Lieutenant Peter J. Brookman
 * Brown Peaks, named after Kenneth R. Brown, biologist
 * Brown Scarp, named after Arthur J. Brown, Deputy Program Director (1982–90), ITT Antarctic Services, Inc.
 * Bruner Hill, named after Lieutenant Michael G. Bruner, U.S. Navy
 * Bucher Rim, named after Peter Bucher, glaciologist
 * Buntley Bluff, named after Ensign Ronald E. Buntley
 * Burnette Rock, named after Chief Warrant Officer Desmond Burnette, U.S. Army
 * Burrage Dome, named after Roy E. Burrage, Jr., construction mechanic
 * Butler Summit, named after Rhett Butler of Incorporated Research Institutions for Seismology (IRIS)
 * Callender Peak, named after Lieutenant Gordon W. Callender
 * Campbell Crag, named after Richard J. (Rick) Campbell
 * Cantrell Peak, named after Major Robert L. Cantrell, United States Marine Corps
 * Cape Cornely, named after Joseph R. Cornely, radio operator
 * Cape Polar Sea, named after the USCGC Polar Sea
 * Clark Knoll, named after Elton G. Clark, U.S. Navy
 * Cleft Ledge, named for descriptive features
 * Clingman Peak, named after Otis Clingman, Jr., biologist
 * Coor Crags, named after Lieutenant Commander Lawrence W. Coor, U.S. Navy
 * Cope Hill, named after Lieutenant Winston Cope
 * Corbet Peak, named after Barry Corbet, member of the 1966–67 American Antarctic Mountaineering Expedition that made the first ascent of Mount Vinson
 * Cosgrove Ice Shelf, named after Lieutenant Jerome R. Cosgrove, U.S. Navy Reserve, asst. communications Officer
 * Cousins Rock, named after Michael D. Cousins, ionospheric physicist
 * Crary Knoll, named after Albert P. Crary, scientist
 * Creehan Cliff, named after Lieutenant E. Patrick Creehan
 * Crosson Ice Shelf, named after Commander W.E. Crosson, U.S. Navy, Commanding Officer
 * Curran Bluff, named after Martin P. Curran
 * Davey Peak, named after Gary R. Davey, meteorologist
 * Davis Knoll, named after Thomas C. Davis, Jr., geologist
 * Davis Saddle, named after Clinton S. Davis, U.S. Navy
 * DeMaster Point, named after Douglas P. DeMaster, biologist
 * DeVries Bluff, named after Arthur L. DeVries, biologist, in conjunction with DeVries Glacier
 * Dickinson Rocks, named after David N. Dickinson, construction mechanic
 * Dickson Icefalls, named after Donald T. Dickson, glaciologist
 * Dickson Pillar, named after Paul B. Dickson, photographer
 * Dillon Peak, named after Raymond D. Dillon, biologist
 * Dipboye Cirque, named after Richard L. Dipboye, helicopter pilot
 * Dorrel Rock, named after Leo E. Dorrel, U.S. Navy
 * Dotson Ice Shelf, named after Lieutenant William A. Dotson, U. S. Navy, Officer in Charge of the Ice Reconnaissance Unit of the Naval Oceanographic Office
 * Douglas Gap, named after Donald S. Douglas, biologist
 * Downs Cone, named after Bill S. Downs
 * Draves Point, named after Dale Draves, U.S. Navy
 * Dreary Isthmus, named for descriptive features
 * Dudley Head, originally named Mount Dudley by Ernest Shackleton and later amended
 * Durrance Inlet, Lieutenant Frank M. Durrance, Jr., U.S. Navy Reserve
 * Ellis Cone, named after Homer L. Ellis, U.S. Navy
 * England Ridge, named in conjunction with Mount England
 * English Rock, named after Claude L. English, Jr.
 * Eubanks Point, named after Staff Sergeant Leroy E. Eubanks
 * Evans Knoll, named after Donald J. Evans
 * Everett Spur, named after Kaye R. Everett, geologist
 * Favela Rocks, named after Rafael Favela, Jr., U.S. Navy equipment operator
 * Favreau Pillar, named after Robert D. Favreau
 * Ferri Ridge, named after Guy Ferri
 * Fields Peak, named after Master Sergeant Samuel J. Fields
 * Fleming Head, named after John P. Fleming
 * Folk Ridge, named after John E. Folk, biolab technician
 * Fontaine Bluff, named after Lieutenant Commander R.K. Fontaine, U.S. Navy
 * Foreman Peak, named after Donald L. Foreman, mechanic
 * Fowler Knoll, named after Chief Warrant Officer George W. Fowler, U.S. Army
 * Frost Cliff, named after William L. Frost, U.S. Navy
 * Fry Peak, named after Frederick M. Fry, U.S. Navy Flight Surgeon
 * Furman Bluffs, named after James L. Furman, U.S. Navy staff assistant
 * Garwood Point, named after James W. Garwood, U.S. Navy metalsmith
 * Gealy Spur, named after William J. Gealy
 * Gerrish Peaks, named after Samuel D. Gerrish, ionospheric physics researcher
 * Gibbon Nunatak, named after Thomas L. Gibbon
 * Glover Cirque, named after Robert P. Glover, cartographer
 * Good Glacier, named after Vice Adm. Roscoe F. Good, logistical support
 * Grass Bluff, named after Robert D. Grass, meteorologist
 * Gray Rock, named after Alvin M. Gray, radioscience researcher
 * Greene Ridge, named after Charles R. Greene, Jr., ionospheric scientist
 * Gregory Rock, named after Elmer D. Gregory, aviation maintenance line crew supervisor
 * Grew Peak, named after Edward Grew
 * Groux Rock, named after Roger G. Groux, U.S. Navy shipfitter
 * Harrison Ice Ridge, named after William D. Harrison
 * Harvey Peak, named after Paul Harvey, aviation support
 * Hatch Outcrop, named after Ross Hatch, U.S. Navy
 * Haver Peak, named after D.J. Haver, U.S. Navy
 * Hawthorne Bluff, named after Ann Parks Hawthorne, photographer
 * Hofman Hill, named after Robert J. Hofman, biologist
 * Helios Ridge, named in conjunction with Mount Helios
 * Hill Peaks, named after Joseph Hill, Jr., mechanic and driver
 * Jacobel Glacier, named after Robert W. Jacobel
 * Johnson Bluff, named after Dwight L. Johnson, biologist
 * Jones Ridge, originally named Cape Jones after Dr. Sydney Evan Jones and later reassigned
 * Kamenev Nunatak, named after Yevgeniy N. Kamenev, Soviet geologist
 * Kay Peak, named after Lieutenant Commander W. Kay
 * Kellogg Valley, named after husband and wife glacial geologists Thomas B. Kellogg and Davida E. Kellogg
 * Kelmelis Hills, named after John A. Kelmelis, cartographer
 * Kemp Rock, named after William R. Kemp, U.S. Navy
 * Kennedy Ridge, named after Nadene Kennedy, polar coordination specialist
 * Kennel Peak, named after A. Alexander Kennel, ionospheric physicist
 * Kerr Inlet, named in conjunction with Cape Kerr
 * Kessler Peak, named after Captain Charles L. Kessler
 * Kieffer Knoll, named after Hugh H. Kieffer, glaciologist
 * Klinck Nunatak, named after Jay C. Klinck, U.S. Navy construction mechanic
 * Koci Cliffs, named after Bruce R. Koci
 * Kohler Head, named after John L. Kohler, U.S. Navy construction electrician
 * Kolich Point, named afterThomas M. Kolich, geophysicist
 * Koltermann Peak, named after Major David Koltermann
 * Komhyr Ridge, named after Walter D. Komhyr, meteorologist
 * Kooyman Peak, named after Gerald L. Kooyman, biologist
 * Kristensen Rocks, named after Captain Leonard Kristensen
 * LaForrest Rock, named after B.A. LaForrest
 * Lake Discovery, named in conjunction with Discovery Glacier and Mount Discovery
 * Lake Eggers, named after Alan J. Eggers
 * Lasher Spur, named after Lieutenant William J. Lasher, U.S. Navy
 * Lear Spire, named after D'Ann Figard Lear, librarian
 * Leibert Cirque, named after Gregg Leibert, helicopter pilot
 * Lemasters Bluff, named after Lieutenant Max E. Lemasters, U.S. Navy
 * Lepley Nunatak, named after Larry K. Lepley, oceanographer
 * Lie Cliff, named after Hans P. Lie, ionospheric physicist
 * Lowry Bluff, named after George Lowry, biologist
 * MacDonald Point, named after James H. MacDonald, journalist
 * McCarthy Point, named after Lieutenant J.F. McCarthy, U.S. Navy
 * MacMillan Point, named after Mark T. MacMillan, research assistant
 * Mahalak Bluffs, named after Lieutenant Lawrence W. Mahalak, Jr., U.S. Navy
 * Maish Nunatak, named after F. Michael Maish, ionospheric physicist
 * Marinovic Beach, named after Baldo Marinovic
 * Marsh Ridge, named after Robert D. Marsh, cook
 * Matsumoto Pond, named after Genki I. Matsumoto, Japanese chemist
 * Mayewski Peak, named after Paul A. Mayewski
 * McIntosh Cliffs, named after William C. McIntosh
 * McKnight Creek, named after Diane McKnight, research hydrologist
 * Melcon Peak, named after Mark ("Commander") Melcon, carpenter
 * Midkiff Rock, named after Frank T. Midkiff, Jr., aviation machinist's mate, U.S. Navy
 * Milan Rock, named after Frederick T. Milan, aviation structural mechanic, U.S. Navy
 * Miller Spur, named after Linwood T. Miller, sailmaker
 * Mims Spur, named after Julius E. Mims, Jr., radio operator
 * Mirfak Nunatak, named after the USNS Mirfak cargo vessel
 * Mizar Nunataks, named after the USNS Mizar (T-AGOR-11) cargo vessel
 * Mohaupt Point, named after H.E. Mohaupt, U.S. Navy
 * Moran Bluff, named after Gerald F. Moran, U.S. Navy
 * Morris Basin, named after Robert W. Morris, biologist
 * Morse Nunataks, named after Oliver C. Morse III, ionospheric scientist
 * Motherway Island, named after Paul T. Motherway
 * Mount Dolber, named after Captain Sumner R. Dolber
 * Mount Gaberlein, named after William E. Gaberlein, Chief Construction Electrician, U.S. Navy
 * Mount Gester, named after Lieutenant Ronald L. Gester, seismologist/geomagnetist
 * Mount Griffin, named after Chief Warrant Officer Joe R. Griffin, U.S. Army
 * Mount Heg, named after James E. Heg, Chief of the Polar Planning and Coordination Staff in the Office of Polar Programs, National Science Foundation
 * Mount Keinath, named after Gerald E. Keinath, biolab administrator
 * Mount Knauff, named after Major General Robert A. Knauff, chief of staff of the New York Air National Guard
 * Mount Manger, named after William Manger
 * Mount Meunier, named after Tony Kenneth Meunier, cartographer and physical scientist
 * Mount Montreuil, named after Paul L. Montreuil, biologist
 * Mount Obiglio, named after Lieutenant G.M. Obiglio, Argentine naval observer
 * Mount Otis, named afterJack Otis
 * Mount Rath, named after Arthur E. Rath, electronics technician
 * Mount Seitz, named after Thomas E. Seitz, Chief Construction Mechanic, U.S. Navy
 * Mount Sinha, named after Akhouri Sinha
 * Mount Slaughter, named after John Brooks Slaughter, director of the National Science Foundation
 * Mount Stierer, named after Byron A. Stierer, Airman First Class, United States Air Force
 * Mount Suggs, named after Henry E. Suggs, equipment operator
 * Mount Sumner, named after Joseph W. Sumner
 * Mount Wheat, named after Lieutenant Commander Luther William Wheat
 * Mulligan Peak, named after John J. Mulligan
 * Murray Pond, named after D.F.C. Murray, driller
 * Musson Nunatak, named after John M. Musson
 * Oeschger Bluff, named after Hans Oeschger, glaciologist
 * Oliver Island, named after David L. Oliver, U.S. Navy cook
 * Olson Peaks, named after Gary D. Olson
 * Paine Ridge, named after Roland D. Paine
 * Paz Cove, named after H.J. Paz
 * Pentecost Cirque, named after John S. Pentecost, helicopter pilot
 * Pine Island Glacier, named after Pine Island Bay
 * Pinet Butte, named after Paul R. Pinet, geologist
 * Poindexter Peak, named after Monte F. Poindexter, meteorologist
 * Polar Subglacial Basin, named for geographical features
 * Post Ridge, named after Madison J. Post, ionospheric physicist
 * Powell Hill, named after James A. Powell, U.S. Navy
 * Raymond Ice Ridge, named after Charles F. Raymond, Professor Emeritus at the University of Washington
 * Redondo Point, originally named by Argentina in 1957
 * Reid Ridge, named after John R. Reid, Jr., glaciologist
 * Reilly Rocks, named after Gerald E. Reilly, Jr., USCG, machinery technician
 * Renirie Rocks, named after Jack Renirie
 * Reynolds Nunatak, named after Clifford E. Reynolds, electrician
 * Reuning Glacier, named after Winifred M. Reuning
 * Rice Ridge, named afterLieutenant Commander Robert A. Rice, U.S. Navy
 * Rowe Bluff, named after Lieutenant Commander Gary L. Rowe
 * Rust Bluff, named after Izak C. Rust, professor of geology
 * Sayen Rocks, named after L.D. Sayen, photographer
 * Scharon Bluff, named after LeRoy H. Scharon
 * Sechrist Peak, named after Frank S. Sechrist
 * Schroeder Hill, named after Henry B. Schroeder, meteorologist
 * Sentry Rocks, named for geographic features
 * Serlin Spur, named after Ronald C. Serlin, ionospheric physicist
 * Siren Rock, named after Jan C. Siren, radio scientist
 * Slusher Nunatak, named after Harold E. Slusher, meteorologist
 * Snyder Peak, named after David R. Snyder, aviation electronics technician
 * Spilhaus Inlet, named after Athelstan Spilhaus, meteorologist and oceanographer
 * Spillway Icefall, named for descriptive features
 * Standifer Bluff, named after J.N. Standifer
 * Stanton Hills, named after Lieutenant Commander Ronald A. Stanton, USN, command pilot of an LC-130 Hercules aircraft
 * Stepping Stone Pond, named for location features
 * Stuart Point, named after Frederick D. Stuart, captain's clerk
 * Suggs Peak, named after James D. Suggs, geologist
 * Teardrop Pond, named for descriptive features
 * Temnikow Nunataks, named after Nicolas Temnikow, biologist
 * Thwaites Glacier, named after Fredrik T. Thwaites
 * Tighe Rock, named after Robert F. Tighe, electrical engineer
 * Todd Hill, named after Ronald L. Todd, cartographer
 * Trabucco Cliff, named after William J. Trabucco, ionospheric physicist
 * Tucker Point, named after Robert L. Tucker, U.S. Navy meteorologist
 * Tuning Nunatak, named after Preston O. Tuning, meteorologist
 * Tur Peak, named after Lieutenant Juan J. Tur, U.S. Navy Reserve, medical officer
 * Velie Nunatak, named after Edward C. Velie, meteorologist
 * Venable Ice Shelf, named after Cdm. J.D. Venable, U.S. Navy, Ships Operations Officer
 * Walker Rocks, named after Carson B. Walker
 * Walts Cliff, named after Dennis S. Walts, meteorologist
 * Watanuki Pond, named after Kunihiki Watanuki, Department of Chemistry, University of Tokyo
 * Whitcomb Ridge, named after Jean P. Whitcomb, radio scientist
 * Whited Inlet, named after Master Chief Quartermaster Robert J. Whited, U.S. Navy, Leading Chief
 * Wiest Bluff, named after William G. Wiest, ionospheric scientist
 * Williams Pond, named after M.W. (Max) Williams, driller
 * Williamson Glacier Tongue, named after John G. Williamson
 * Wold Nunatak, named after Richard J. Wold, geologist
 * Wunneburger Rock, named after Henry E. Wunneburger, U.S. Navy, cook

title: Advisory Committee on Antarctic Names


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sysop Accountability Policy

"Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Sysop Accountability Policy" was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was move to BJAODN (4 keep, 7 BJAODN, 7 delete). Rossami 22:26, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Although there seemed a wide opinion on the page that this was a speedy deletion candidate, I suspect it, in fact, will prove marginally more controversial than that and that it should probably at least go through VfD. Regardless, it is patent nonsense. Snowspinner 14:39, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)

I have carefully read the history of that page. This is the summary: I will leave it to every editor to make conclusions for themselves. I have done what any sensible person would have done in the first place. I have restored the page to the original proposal and plain voting options. If you are interested vote and comment, but don't troll it. Zocky 21:39, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * July 4, 19:21 UTC: Lir writes a sensible policy proposal or at least a list of valid questions, adding the provocative vote option "Oppose: Sysops Are An Elite Cabal. They Are Above the Law." five minutes later.
 * 18 minutes after the page is created, Snowspinner finds the page and instead of editing the voting option to a just "oppose", adds his vote for "Oppose: Sysops Are An Elite Cabal. They Are Above the Law."
 * Over the next 10 minutes two more people join him, one of them obviously a purposely created sock puppet
 * At 20:03 anthony votes under a separate (sensible) option
 * At 20:04 morwen adds the "I haven't stopped beating my wife" option and votes there.
 * 2 minutes later, Snowspinner adds his signature to that option, too.
 * Over the next two hours the vote descends into a flamewar with more nonsense options being added.
 * It gets some attention over next two weeks and is then forgotten until Snowspinner brings it to VfD as "patent nonsense".
 * The vote should not have been altered from Lir's original proposal, nor should votes be removed. As for why it laid forgotten for two weeks - there was some vague agreement to humor the vote while it went on. It's over now, it's a complete bust of a policy with hardly anyone supporting it, and it serves no further purpose. If, however, one insists on keeping it intact, it should be kept intact - not slashed to pieces with substantial discussion and votes removed. Aren't you the one who was arguing only recently against removing votes? Snowspinner 21:55, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)
 * What was going on on that page was not a vote, it was a flamewar. Or should I count your votes for "Sysops Are An Elite Cabal. They Are Above the Law" and "I still haven't stopped beating my wife" as true expressions of your opinions? Zocky 01:23, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, I suppose, strictly speaking, I haven't stopped beating my wife yet... Snowspinner 02:40, Aug 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * This was never a valid poll. There was no discussion and we never reached even an approximate agreement on what the options and questions should be.  I do think there are a number of valid points (after all it's quite often that admins blatantly violate rules without being admonished), but I think this page only serves to detract from that point.  We could revert back to the questions before the poll was made, but I think it's much better to start from scratch.  Perhaps we should encourage people to remove their own ridiculous votes? anthony (see warning) 13:45, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Keep, but only barely - there were a few interesting points raised in the discussion. It is also rather amusing, IMO. Perhaps move it over to a subpage of Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense? Bryan 16:47, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep: Why the interest in this?  Sheesh.  The Clean Up page is 8 miles long.  Let's look for articles that fail notability and significance, rather than worrying about who likes whom.  Geogre 17:08, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Move to BJAODN. and ban lir already.... - UtherSRG 18:15, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete or move to User:Lir/Sysop Accountability Policy. Don't ban lir, at least not for creating this. anthony (see warning) 20:08, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Elf-friend 20:11, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC) Changing my vote to keep. Elf-friend 13:19, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. WHAT!? If this is an ongoing vote, it shouldn't be deleted. If it's a concluded vote, it should be kept for reasons of transparency, and so the outcome can be referred to. Why delete it? Why the current mania of listing non-main namespace pages on VfD? This isn't the purpose of VfD, as pages out side of the main namespace do not detract from the encyclopedia. The fact that certain users chose not to treat this vote seriously does not mean it was not started with serious intent. -- orthogonal 20:24, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * The vote was never valid, having never been set up with any ending time. By this logic, any "ongoing vote" can go on for ever should they never bother to put an end time on the vote. Snowspinner 21:55, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)

 * Snowspinner, when Zocky restored the page, you twice reverted it (emphasis mine).
 * 20:42, 31 Jul 2004 Snowspinner (VfD is not Wikipedia:Pages needing attention. Furthermore, it is not acceptable to delete a large number of votes. Finally, discussion should occur on this page, not on VfD.)
 * 16:44, 31 Jul 2004 Snowspinner (Reverted - the "elite cabal" phrasing was part of the original proposal, which is what led to the subsequent responses. Furthermore, unilaterally deleting votes is probably bad form. :))
 * Zocky didn't "restore" the page, he just deleted most of it. I can't see how that is in any way defensible for a voting page. If you or he think it needs a do-over with a less ridiculously worded question, go start a brand new one. Bryan 05:59, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * But you have listed the entire page for deletion. What zocky did preserved the old votes in the page's history (and he left an explicit link to that version of the page), but what you propose to do effectively drops the whole thing down the Memory Hole. Please explain how you can justify reverting the refactoring yet propose deleting the whole page. -- orthogonal 03:17, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * If the page is to remain, it should be treated as a vote and kept with the integrity of a vote. Snowspinner 03:50, Aug 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * "Regardless, it is patent nonsense. Snowspinner 14:39, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)"
 * Snowspinner, you can't have it both ways. If the page is "patent nonsense" it has no integrity to keep. If it has integrity to keep, you are destroying that integrity by deleting the page.
 * Even worse, you were -- by definition -- trolling when you voted on that page that "Sysops are an elite cabal. They are above the law" and "I haven't stopped beating my wife yet". You certainly were not treating the page with the integrity a vote deserves; you were lampooning it, making a mockery of it, and mocking its author, presumably because it's considered "ok" on wikipedia to mock Lir, even though that mocking only escalates tensions.
 * Now you want the evidence of your trolling to be deleted, but when zocky tries to fix the page to make the vote no longer a mockery (and adds links showing how you and others mocked that vote), you revert him twice with the specious argument that you are, at long last, protecting the page's integrity. If the integrity had been important to you, you'd have acted to protect it when Lir first wrote it. If the page is "patent nonsense", let zocky fix it and stop reverting his efforts.
 * If, as I suspect, the page is an embarrassment to you because it shows you being a troll -- and at Lir's instigation, no less --, well then, be honest and take your lumps like a grown-up. -- orthogonal 08:39, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete, and ban Lir. RickK 22:13, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Everyking 01:42, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. This poll was never meant to be taken seriously, given the wording of the option not favored by the poll's initiator.  I suspect that Lir was merely trying to provoke a reaction, and it worked; but since no salient points were made in its discussion, it can be safely deleted.  (Unless of course someone wants to save it to use as evidence against Lir in yet another request for administrative action, in which case it needs to be moved from Wikipedia namespace into a user's namespace.)  If people really want to have a poll on the subject they should start a new one and link to it from this page; trying to turn this poll into a legitimate one won't work.  -Sean Curtin 06:03, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * BJAODN. Please don't delete this completely. The "fnord fnord" poll cracks me up every time. Ambi 11:13, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep or move but do not delete. I might decide to take this further when I return from holidays. Zocky 11:26, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Move to some userpage somewhere. Maybe Zocky would be good enough to store it for a while. DannyBoy | Talk 20:19, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep under BJAODN. It's nonsense, but not without humor value.  Goobergunch 20:51, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete - not a good joke or even a good bad joke. - Tεx  τ  urε  15:00, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. The page contains nothing useful. If people want a poll on this, they can do that on an existing talk page. There's no need for this to be cluttering up the Wikipedia namespace. Angela. 07:59, Aug 4, 2004 (UTC)
 * Send to BJAODN. —No-One Jones 17:08, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Whatever you do, don't delete. BJAODN it, keep it, I don't care. It's damn funny. Johnleemk | Talk 14:44, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * BJAODN. cesarb 23:22, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Talk:Speak of the Devil (Ozzy Osbourne album)

Fair use rationale for Image:OzzyOsbourneSpeakOfTheDevil.jpg
Image:OzzyOsbourneSpeakOfTheDevil.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 16:28, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Type of Album
Since Ozzy was (and still is) in Sabbath, I wouldn't really call this a cover album, or tribute album for that matter, but rather a live one. I'll wait to see what others think before I change it. Sposato (talk) 01:20, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Live or Not Live?!?
Just got Talk of the Devil on vinyl (the british version is much superior) and on the back cover it clearly states "Live Sound by Chuck Weisner" so this explains they added the live sound to the album. But it's strange, cause Ozzy sounds like he's playing a live gig. Go figure... It's odd Brad Gillis is on it, cause I'm waiting for Ozzy to cover "Don't Tell Me You Love Me". 24.68.50.33 (talk) 01:41, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

 * It means he was in charge of sound at the show. Most likely running the sound board. WOW. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.214.250.194 (talk) 17:37, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Speak of the Devil (Ozzy Osbourne album). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090124161532/http://images.radcity.net/6340/2165303.pdf to http://images.radcity.net/6340/2165303.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070626174049/http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php to https://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 15:06, 9 December 2017 (UTC)

out of print
this album is seemingly out of print unfortunately, and can’t be purchased in itunes. i’d love to hear one of the other live recordings from this period with gillis playing randy’s songs. but would like even more to hear more live material with rhoads-as we all know it exists as per bob daisley 2601:482:4280:B10:F411:1EE4:8DDB:E0C0 (talk) 14:01, 3 December 2022 (UTC)

Ozzy will always be #1.
Awsome!! 2600:8801:9B15:200:2512:571E:E9AC:CC1F (talk) 03:36, 2 October 2023 (UTC)


text:
Talk:The Ultimate Sin

Release Date
If the release date was February 22nd, how was it already a top seller in the February 18th, 1986 issue of Idaho Family advertising supplement? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.114.228.71 (talk) 00:09, 8 January 2019 (UTC)

The March 18th, 1985 issue of Eurotip Sheet (page 7; the pages are not in order in the linked PDF), Alexandra's News Corner article heralds the release of this album. There is a mention in the main article about a stay in rehab in 1985, but it would be interesting to learn more about what happened in the nine month span between an album seemingly ready for release and its eventual/actual release in early 1986. alainsane (talk) 21:34, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

Also, the information I added above flies in the proverbial face of the yet uncited claim in the main article that the album had a different planned title until a last minute change. The Eurotip Sheet article from March of 1985 shows at least nine months lead time where the name seems to have already been decided on as The Ultimate Sin. alainsane (talk) 21:49, 12 December 2023 (UTC)

untitled
RIP Randy Castillo, indeed. Very sad.

I have a question for someone who might know. I notice that several of the tracks shown on Wikipedia list Williams in the writing credits, while others list Lee. Anyone who is a Jake E. Lee fan knows that his proper surname is Williams. Is there a different Williams that may have contributed to this album, or is this an error on the behalf of whoever entered the writing credits? I'm pretty savvy on Ozzy's work of this era, and I can't recall anyone else named Williams hanging around the Osbourne camp. But I always leave myself the option of being correctable.

RIP Randy Castillo

Gringo300 02:56, 10 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't know who it is, or if it's Jake. But when I edited it, it originally had the writer listed for every song (rather than the "all songs written by Ozzy, Jake E. Lee, and Bob Daisley" at the top), and some songs said "Williams", and others said "Lee". So if they're the same person, I don't know why it would say different names for him.

Rock Soldier 20:57; April 25, 2007

Jimmy DeGrasso
According to http://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Jimmy_DeGrasso.html, Degrasso played on the Ultimate Sin album, not Castillo. Anyone have any other sources for clarification? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.207.118.149 (talk) 21:10, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

Liner notes say that Castillo play on it and all the music videos for the album (ultimate sin, shot in the dark, lightning stikes) feature Castillo (Dr. Rockter (talk) 16:59, 13 February 2008 (UTC))Dr. Rockter

Shot in the Dark
I have the original vinyl copy of the album. The last track, Shot in the Dark, runs for 4:15. 92.9.230.183 (talk) 15:17, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:The Ultimate Sin


text:
Lord Kirkcudbright

Lord Kirkcudbright is a dormant title in the Peerage of Scotland. It was created for Sir Robert Maclellan of Bombie on a 1633 royal visit to Scotland by King Charles I. Maclellan had already been created a baronet of Nova Scotia in 1631.

This MacLellan surname is said to have derived from Mac-a-ghille-dhiolan (son of the bastard).

The MacLellan family was numerous in Galloway in the later half of the 14th Century and gave its name to Balmaclellan, MacLellan's town, in the Stewartry of Galloway. It is understood that the Balmaclellan lands were given to John MacLellan by James III, king of Scotland, in 1466 on John MacLellan's intention to provide a site for a church there abouts. By the beginning of the fifteenth century there were no fewer than fourteen knights of that name then living in Galloway.

Consequent upon, and sometime after the murder of Sir Patrick Maclellan by the 8th Earl of Douglas at his stronghold of Threave in 1452, family feuding without the King's authority led to the forfeiture of the Maclellan Barony of Bomby, along with other collateral estates. Not long afterwards however in 1455 some Bombie lands were recovered, when King James II, of Scotland, with support from the Maclellans, undertook the siege of Threave Castle, and won a victory over the 'Black Douglas' clan.

Lords Kirkcudbright (1633–1832)

 * Robert MacLellan, 1st Lord Kirkcudbright (1633–1639)
 * Thomas MacLellan, 2nd Lord Kirkcudbright (1639–1647)
 * John MacLellan, 3rd Lord Kirkcudbright (1647–1665)
 * William MacLellan, 4th Lord Kirkcudbright (1665–1668)
 * James MacLellan, 5th Lord Kirkcudbright (1721–1730)
 * William MacLellan, 6th Lord Kirkcudbright (1734–1767)
 * John MacLellan, 7th Lord Kirkcudbright (1767–1801)
 * Sholto Henry MacLellan, 8th Lord Kirkcudbright (1801–1827)
 * Camden Gray McClellan, 9th Lord Kirkcudbright (1827–1832) (dormant)

title: Lord Kirkcudbright


text:
Talk:Tribute (Ozzy Osbourne album)

Bootlegs
i remember hearing there is a bootleg version of this recording, with an unedited, longer version of the suicide solution randy rhoads solo

anybody else know anything about this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.163.64.11 (talk • contribs)

 * The version of Suicide Solution on Tribute was edited together from two different live recordings of the song. The solo is from the show in Montreal, Canada on 1981-07-28, and the rest of the song from Cleveland, Ohio on 1981-05-11.  What you're probably referring to is the Suicide Solution solo from the Cleveland show.  Undoubtedly there are bootlegs of both shows floating around. --ozzmosis 05:19, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:OzzyOsbourneTribute.jpg
Image:OzzyOsbourneTribute.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 05:24, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Rrtributealbum.jpg
Image:Rrtributealbum.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 20:09, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Article title
The title of this album is not Randy Rhoads Tribute, it is simply Tribute. It should be reverted to the way it was before. I can understand how someone might think that the title itself is Randy Rhoads Tribute, due to the format of the titling on the cover, which basically says:

Ozzy Osbourne Randy Rhoads Tribute

But if you look on the side of the album, it is clear that that is not the title, as it says "Ozzy Osbourne & Randy Rhoads -- Tribute", meaning that the title is Tribute, and it is simply crediting the album to both Ozzy and Randy. So the recent edits changing the title should be reverted, and the album infobox should be corrected to list the artist as "Ozzy Osbourne & Randy Rhoads".

--Rock Soldier (talk) 20:25, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Error in Mention of the Song Dee
I disagree with this statement in the article: "The last bars of "Dee" can also be heard in the ending of "Goodbye to Romance".

I can see how the original poster may have made this incorrect assumption, but the ending of the song is not the same as the song Dee. The ending on Tribute is simply a return to Goodbye to Romance's opening bars which is used to end the song during the live set as apposed to fading out as the song does on the Blizzard of Ozz album. This is a common technique for artists who play live.

Would the original poster, or if any of you agree with me, please remove this error from the article?

Thanks

Hempdiddy (talk) 17:49, 9 August 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ The statement was original research and removed as such. Note to Hempdiddy, feel free to be bold and make such changes as you see them.  Also, add new threads to the bottom of talkpages. J04n(talk page) 18:10, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Tribute (Ozzy Osbourne album). Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070704203202/http://www.rollingstone.com:80/artists/ozzyosbourne/albums/album/236833/review/5944874/tribute to http://www.rollingstone.com/artists/ozzyosbourne/albums/album/236833/review/5944874/tribute

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 01:08, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 09:14, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Tribute (Ozzy Osbourne album). Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070626174049/http://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php to https://www.riaa.com/goldandplatinumdata.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 23:28, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tribute (Ozzy Osbourne album)