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Wikipedia talk:Span tags

"New" votes
Why are "new" votes being seperated from old votes? I don't see any change in content that requires people who have voted to yet again vote. - Tεx  τ  urε  18:33, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * It's just to keep things tidy. There's no reason to vote again unless you want to change your old vote.  --Eequor 18:38, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

What does Span do
Can someone explain to me just what SPAN is used for? Apart from things handled by wikitax like bold and italics. Thanks. --Golbez 00:21, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * is the correct way to change properties of text inline without dividing paragraphs, as  does.  can be used instead but that use is deprecated .  *as should be the excessive use of styles in this paragraph.  --Eequor 21:10, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Very pretty. I realise that you used and    rather than    because the latter does not work, but are you saying that it works the same, or that other different syntax is needed as well?  --Henrygb 00:05, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * For us standards buffs, the  tag is generally preferable for inline styles because the tag is considered outdated (although it can be used in the same way). --neatnate 00:23, 17 Aug 2004 (UTC)

May discussion
To those who vote "no", I ask the following two questions:
 * What do you recommend users do right now if they want to specify language, direction, or style for an inline run of text? Is your suggestion really better than the single change of allowing span tags?
 * By voting "no", you are supporting the status quo of allowing all those other HTML tags but not span tags. How can you support the unequal support of all those other tags and not allowing span? On what philosophical basis do you allow big, small, and font tags but not span tags?

Nohat 17:13, 2004 May 4 (UTC)

What is the purpose of this poll? It's up to the developers to take on a project, not for us to try to force them to do anything. RickK 02:27, 4 May 2004 (UTC)
 * I am inclined to agree with Rickk. →Raul654 02:29, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

It's not really a "project". It's a single-line code change that could easily be a configuration option. Nohat 02:33, 2004 May 4 (UTC) As background, I along with several other users have requested allowing span tags on the mailing lists and have been rebuffed. I thought it was time to have a public debate on the Wiki with the goal of determining whether or not people want them or not. Nohat 02:38, 2004 May 4 (UTC)

Is there anyone who would like to summarise the (presumably technical) objections to allowing  tags? --Stormie 02:59, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

 * I haven't followed this particular discussion, but my main objection would be that every single HTML tag makes wiki pages more difficult to edit. Our replacements aren't always much better (the table syntax in particular can be very frustrating) but they at least go into the right direction. Imagine you're a Ph.D. historian and you're trying to improve an article about the Black Death. "Hey, this is cool, I can edit this page" you think - but then you see a page that is littered with HTML tags, and you are immediately scared away. --Eloquence* 03:18, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

 * Consider, which is currently the only real alternative to   .  Is that not scarier?  Also consider that the entire internet uses HTML, whereas only MediaWiki projects use MediaWiki syntax.  It is more reasonable to expect familiarity with HTML than with MediaWiki.  I've seen comments by users who were clearly quite comfortable with HTML and totally confused by the new syntax that the wiki imposes on them.  In particular, image syntax is not necessarily intuitive, and table syntax can easily become unintelligible.  --Eequor 20:19, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * My inclination would be to move towards allowing HTML only in the forthcoming Template: namespace (which will replace the MediaWiki: namespace) and to completely cleanse the article source from it. Replace
 with "\\", improve the image syntax further, etc. While I'm ranting: Why does the source have to include things like Stormie ? Why not just User:Stormie and indicate the fact that it's a user page using an icon? Also, the pipe trick shouldn't be resolved on save but on load.

 * I don't know what the other developers think, but my focus is to make things easier, not more complicated, for people who know nothing about HTML.--Eloquence* 03:18, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, that was eloquently put, Eloquence. :-) I think I will abstain from voting on this one, since on the one hand, I don't want to say "yes" because I largely agree with you, but I also don't want to say "no" without being convinced that the necessary work to remove the requirement for HTML is going strong.. --Stormie 05:27, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

Can't one override the standard Wikipedia CSS definitions if the span tag allows including one's own CSS definitions? Wouldn't that open the door to truly horrendous (malicious) hacks? At least, it seems to me that this would be the end of any uniform appearance of Wikipedia articles. I'm inclined to vote "no" because of this, but would like to see somebody more knowledgeable than me comment on this. It's been a while since I did anything with CSS... Lupo 14:44, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

 * If this were true (I don't know if it is or not), it would already be possible because inline CSS styles are allowed on all the permitted HTML tags, such as
. Nohat 14:51, 2004 May 4 (UTC)

We should be trying hard to get away from all HTML markup (to the point where I'd want no new article to be permitted to contain any)
 * one day (soon) we'll want to transcode wikimarkup to something other than HTML (actually, we transcode to XHTML in the forthcoming version, and articles with user-supplied HTML will already make pages fail to validate). We mustn't break transcoding for speech, for any number of small-device XML markups, and for whatever the new new markup is in a few years are all made harder when HTML is present.  Wikimarkup needs to outlast HTML.
 * user HTML subverts the stylesheet. Everything in the final html code emitted should be styled, both for appearance and particularly for accessibility.  Accessibility design in particular is hard and should be done once (in the html/css layer), not done badly or (more likely) not at all in the article's wikitext.
 * I see entirely why folks want to use span, and it's very similar to the same reason people used floating DIV tags for images - this exposes a deficiency in the current wikimarkup. The fix is to add support in wikimarkup, not allow it to be circumvented.

These are, I think, good technical reasons for avoiding html beyond the "wikimarkup is easy, html is hard" mention above. -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 16:38, 4 May 2004 (UTC)
 * it's unportable - much effort is gone into the stylesheets to make wikimarkup transcode to something that works well on a wide variety of browsers. Authors frequently (>95% of the time) add HTML markup that they've only tested on one, current, browser (those floating image DIVs are notoriously non-portable, whereas the new floaty-image-wikimarkup is perfect everywhere).

 * Great, I totally agree there should be A Better Way. But until there is, how does allowing span tags make things worse? We already allow tons and tons of other tags, why not span? Nohat 16:53, 2004 May 4 (UTC)

 * Just because they're allowed does not mean I use them. I personally use only wikicode in wikipedia. This is not because I can't use html, since I am a professional web developer and code css+xhtml1.1. I just know that (x)html is hard to get right even for people who know it really well. I personally would like zero html tags in wikipedia, and use only wikisyntax. If it can't be done in wikisyntax, maybe it shouldn't be done? Christopher Mahan 17:32, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

 * So correctly displaying runs of foreign text in context shouldn't be done? Nohat 17:36, 2004 May 4 (UTC)

 * You can't send a subway sandwich by FedEx. It's a limitation of the system.
 * If you want to change that, propose changes to wikisyntax to support such foreign text. The easy way is not always the best way. Christopher Mahan 18:22, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I will, I will! But in the meantime, while we debate over the hundred possible permutations of the syntax and which one people want, people will continue to use HTML tags that were not meant for doing the things span tags should be used for, which is decidedly worse than using span tags appropriately. I'm only requesting that span tags be enabled in the interim until a better solution can be developed. We already allow nearly every other HTML tag. I have yet to see one legitimate explanation why all those other tags are allowed but span tags are not. People keep saying the same thing: "we should have less HTML; this should be done via wiki syntax" but no one, not a single person, has explained how allowing span tags would in any way make wikipedia worse. If anything it'll make it better, because it will allow a simple conversion from span tags to the new wiki syntax, whereas not allowing span tags will require figuring out every way people worked around the problem and converting that mess. Is that really what you want? People are already using  and  tags. Shouldn't we at least make it possible to do it a better way, even if it's not the best way? Nohat 18:34, 2004 May 4 (UTC)

Well, of course. But the better way is to use wikisyntax. Anything short of that will have to be redone. By hand. Christopher Mahan 18:44, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

If people consistently use  or  then I don't see why after the introduction of a wikisyntax they couldn't be automatically converted by a search and replace through the database. "But the better way is to use wikisyntax." That doesn't mean that allowing span tags isn't better than using font tags.

I'd also like to add that I fully expect all those who vote no on this poll either to actively agitate the developers to disallow support of HTML tags or explain what in specific is wrong with span tags that is not wrong with the other HTML tags. To do otherwise would be hypocritical. Nohat 18:48, 2004 May 4 (UTC)

 * It's a horrible hack to use a font tag, and it's a horrible hack to use a span tag. Whether one is marginally less horrible is debatable.  We shouldn't waste effort twiddling around with one broken solution vs another.  I entirely agree that the text-direction thing is urgent (everything else certainly is not).  We have to have a hack for it until the new syntax is ready, and we want a means of being able to find and destroy the hack (in whatever nasty form it is) once the syntax is available.  Whether it's a span or a font, folks are going to use their own subtle variations, which makes that search-and-destroy phase more difficult. So can't we do something like:
 * implement a couple of msg tags, e.g. and  which implement the text/lang thing using font, i, or whatever unpleasant means is currently necessary
 * insist that the above msgs are the only way folks should be doing bidi stuff
 * when the new syntax is done, it's easy (for a SQL query or a bot) to find all the bidi msgs and automatically replace them.
 * Isn't this a less hacky hack, with a credible exit-strategy, than either continuing to use font tags in the article wikitext or merely using span tags instead? -- Finlay McWalter | Talk 18:56, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure why you characterize using span tags as a "horrible hack". It's the HTML-correct way to specify direction or language of an inline run of text. Your solution also doesn't address the problem of language tagging. Farsi, Urdu, and Arabic all use the same alphabet, but Arabic is ordinarily rendered with lots of automatic ligatures and Farsi and Urdu are not. The Unicode characters are the same but the correct rendering is different. The correct way to specify for a run of arabic text what language it is is to use <span lang="ar"&gt: or , etc. Similarly, Serbian uses several different glyphs for certain Cyrillic characters when they are italicized, although the Unicode character codes are the same. The only way to tell the browser that a run of text should be rendered as Serbian is by a  tag. What is your proposal to solve this problem? Nohat 19:07, 2004 May 4 (UTC)

 * This isn't an html wiki. It's a wikimarkup wiki.  So every use of html is a horrible hack, waiting the day someone writes some wikimarkup handling code to obviate the need for it.  To address your specific concern, a lang= attribute can be attached to any tag, so you don't need span, and can use msgs comparable to the above ones. "To do otherwise would be hypocritical".  Sigh, now this is turning from a civil technical discussion into mere bickering, and sorry, but that's not I game I'm willing to play. I've said my piece on this subject. -- Finlay McWalter |  Talk 19:31, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

 * It seems to me that rtl txt  is in fact a worse solution than  rtl text . Not only is it longer, but it's made-up, in that it doesn't conform to any already existing standard for marking up such text. And how is it any more difficult to search-and-replace for    than it is for  ? Finally, do you propose creating separate s for every language? How is that better than just allowing   and replacing those tags with the wiki syntax when (if ever) it is implemented. In fact, in a  recent vote, HTML-like syntax was voted for in favor of syntaxes which were more wiki-like, but less HTML-like. This shows me that for rarely-used options, like, say,  labeling spans of foreign language text, or hieroglypics, or math, Wikipedians prefer an HTML-like syntax, which span tags are and  are not. Nohat 19:52, 2004 May 4 (UTC)

Don't really have the time not the inclination to do any active agitation of developers. They volunteer their time and talent, and I for one am glad they are doing as much as they are already doing. ... As far as the search and replace: good luck. Christopher Mahan 18:58, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

 * How can you stand against my simple request for allowing span tags but not stand against all the other HTML tags? Nohat 19:07, 2004 May 4 (UTC)

 * I didn't say I don't stand against other html tags. I just don't want to bother the developers about it. Yours is not a simple request, it's a step in the wrong direction. It's like a drunk at the bar saying: Ahm allreadee dr-unk, so it don't matter if I... burp....have a... one more drink... Christopher Mahan 20:59, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

Suggest unique headings
When setting up poll pages like this in the future, I suggest keeping all headings unique. To this end, I've "disambiguated" the various "Comment" headings. Why? After submitting comments to the page I would always be kicked back to the first "Comment" section rather than the one I was just editing. Very annoying. In addition, I think the "Yes" & "No" (and perhaps "May" & "August") headings should be disambiguated, as well. For example: "Yes to  tags", "No to   tags", etc. I haven't made these latter changes because I didn't want to disrupt the page too much. Besides, there are so many repeated headings, disambiguating them all would make the TOC very wordy. We should probably just avoid placing so many polls on the same page... - dcljr 00:18, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

User-accessible classes in Wikipedia's CSS
Look at the way many Wikipedians have been (incorrectly) putting id="toc" into their navboxes (By the way, a developer has added a class to monobook.css called "toccolours", so you can use class="toccolours" instead).

Has anyone made a systematic catalogue of every application that spans would be used for? User-accessible classes could probably satisfy many of these needs.

Inline styles might be necessary sometimes, but using pre-defined classes would be much better. I would love to see a few classes for common applications be added to the CSS, to compliment span tags. Classes could be profitably applied to spans, divs or tables (what else?).

Advantages of using pre-defined classes over inline styles:
 * easier to enter
 * less prone to errors (not everyone knows CSS)
 * requires less code in the database
 * renders less code in the HTML pages
 * reinforces consistent style
 * co-operates with skins
 * more flexible—e.g., update appearance of all navboxes with one style sheet edit

potential applications of classes:
 * taxoboxes
 * navboxes
 * tabular data
 * what else?

Think of class attributes as wikimarkup for CSS.

—Michael Z. 00:41, 2004 Oct 27 (UTC)

If developers are worried that spans will be abused, perhaps only some attributes should be allowed, for example:
 * allowed
 * lang
 * dir
 * class
 * not allowed
 * style
 * id
 * title
 * onmouseover

 * I completely agree with Michael's proposal, and i think not allowing inline styles makes a lot of sense too. Will help to get an even look that can be tweaked by skin too. Smaller, simpler wiki src anyway. -- Gabriel Wicke 15:06, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I do use inline styles often, mostly in tables. 90% of this would be obviated by two or three pre-set table formats.

 * I haven't seen any abuse of inline styles, but lots of inconsistency. I have only seen them in monobook.css, and I wonder what effect they have on other skins.  —Michael Z. 2005-01-30 17:57 Z

Other tags

 * Whilst we're here and looking at them, what does <ruby> do, and should the various
-related tags be deprecated now we have the wiki-style table markup? --Phil | Talk 16:58, May 4, 2004 (UTC)

 * <ruby> and the related tags <rb>, <rp>, <rt> are used for the markup of Ruby text, which is not currently supported in most browsers. See that page for an example of marked-up Ruby (which will likely not be displayed correctly in your browser). Nohat 18:29, 2004 May 4 (UTC)

 * FWIW IE6 and mozilla can both display simple ruby. not sure about the others but ruby written with proper <rp> tags works well in most browsers.Zeimusu

Another suggestion
I agree with nohat that "...for rarely-used options, like, say, labeling spans of foreign language text, or hieroglypics, or math, Wikipedians prefer an HTML-like syntax".

Just as we have HTML-like tags for $$$$ and so on, we should consider having a Wikipedia-specific HTML-like tag for language, and so on. This would not be HTML: this would be Wiki-markup (just as much so as ), which is then rendered to produce appropriate HTML, XHTML, TeX, SGML, etc. etc.

Because it's a pseudo-tag, we could also remove any requirement for nesting, and so allow things like ...

There's also no need for a LTR/RTL tag: BiDi can be automatically inferred from language, and language tags convey more information than merely direction tags.

Oh, and let's move the en: Wikipedia to UTF-8 ASAP. The longer we wait, the more the pain. -- The Anome 09:20, 5 May 2004 (UTC)

 * What should the language be after ... ... ? --Eequor 20:28, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Contrivance
It seems overly contrived to provide an example with three  tags in one paragraph, especially as the latter two are unlikely to have any effect. -_-;; --Eequor 22:02, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Tags less important than which are allowed
It's surprising how many HTML tags are allowed, given the purported opposition to them. Many are obsolete or redundant, yet they were included anyway.

It can be seen that HTML tags were not included by their merits. Rather, they appear to have been chosen arbitrarily, with no regard for how they might be used or for their appropriateness. Nearly all of the extraneous tags can be easily replaced with  or.

Clearly, including  need not increase the number of allowed tags; instead, its inclusion would permit 16 tags to be removed. It makes little sense to argue  would force users to learn more HTML. If all of the following tags were removed, 18 of the currently allowed 45 would remain. --Eequor 03:44, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Tags which would be made unnecessary by
There are various reasons why the following tags should be removed.

 * ,, ,
 * These are redundant with each other and obsoleted by wiki code.

 * Changing fonts mid-article would be very un-wiki.
 * Changing fonts mid-article would be very un-wiki.

 * Redundant with.
 * For deleted text, use.
 * For deleted text, use.

— Chameleon Main/Talk/Images 10:12, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * ,  is unfortunately still necessary in order to set the font to Arial Unicode MS for certain special characters to display correctly.  Ruby syntax is part of XHTML.    is handy.  Otherwise, those should all go, and   should come in.

 * Wouldn't using the  tag to "set the font to Arial Unicode MS" be exactly the kind of thing we should be discouraging in Wikipedia? Not everyone has Arial Unicode MS! Besides, why that particular font? Wouldn't any Unicode font do (provided it covered the right range of characters)? Why not just rely on the user to have their browsers configured to display Unicode for those who have an appropriate font? - dcljr 03:25, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree with Dcljr. It's pretty bad style to assume the existence of any font in a webpage.  The right way to do things is to use the standard SGML entities and hope for the best.  The <tt>font</tt> tag is deprecated for good reasons, and we should not be perpetuating it — not even in green signatures.  --Ardonik 04:24, 2004 Aug 7 (UTC)

 * No, no, no, no, no. You don't get it.  This is for backward compatibility.  If you are using Linux, or any alternative browser, this fix is not necessary and the worse it will do is make the text look slightly different if you have the font installed, and nothing at all if you don't.  This is my case.  However, Joe Normal is using IE under Windows with all basic Microsoft fonts installed, and no special configuration.  The bottom line is that he will see certain special characters (Pinyin, IPA, certain languages...) correctly if we force the font, and see gobbledygook if we don't.

 * If you say "use the standard SGML entities and hope for the best", in other words "fuck IE users!" I totally understand, I feel like that too. But it's not very nice, is it?  Another problem is that  IE-using Wikipedians tend to remove such characters from articles (thus making transcriptions incorrect) because they don't display correctly for them.  Forcing the font is necessary to stop them doing this.   — Chameleon Main/Talk/Images 09:57, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Then why not just place an warning in the source if that's your main concern? - dcljr 22:45, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Or have the software automatically warn users that are editing pages that contain non-ASCII characters? Or something. - dcljr 23:50, 12 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Of course, it would be even cooler if it could be done by CSS. We could mark all special text with a class attribute, and the style sheet could alter the font as necessary Wikipedia-wide.  The attribute could be set with , or, even better, with some Wiki markup like   or  .    — Chameleon Main/Talk/Images 10:04, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I would disagree with the proposal to remove ; eventually, we ought to see all references in the ==See also== and ==Further reading== use it, so that book and magazine titles can be changed with a single CSS setting. --Ardonik 20:20, 2004 Aug 4 (UTC)

 * It would be simpler to define a new wiki symbol for denoting citations. Perhaps `title` or ~title~ could be used.  Better, though, would be a template or template-like directive, so all the parts of the citation can be appropriately formatted:

 title author publisher publication edition date pages

 * Which would presumably be formatted into HTML as a number of  tags.  A normal template of the sort could be made now, except:
 * template parameters aren't optional
 * is not allowed and so one must use instead
 * templates are limited to five occurrences, so a long bibliography would be hopeless

 * --Eequor 07:06, 7 Aug 2004 (UTC)

You may have missed a few things:
 * There is no wikimarkup equivalent for  and  . Those are presentation options. The wiki markup features  and ' are for semantic markup, not presentation. That's why we emphasize the subject of an article - we aren't making it bold, we're emphasising its importance. It happens that may browsers, but not all, display them as bold or italic. If you want bold or italic you should be using bold or italic, not emphasise or emphasise more.
 * Changing font is not unwiki. It's necessary for some characters to display and necessary, until there is CSS for it, to do useful things like attractive and readily readable table layouts - see Periodic table for an example which also illustrates just much ugly and repetitive font use is required for an obviously good purpose because we don't have span.
 * , and are cases where you're again confusing presentation and semantic markup. Code and cittions are common and provide useful hints to search engines about the nature of the content. Using presentation markup does not provide that semantic information.
 * Headings are probably very uncommon - would be interesting to know where and why they are used. I expect there are cases where wiki markup breaks and heading levels are necessary, though.
 * What markup do we have to replace
,
 and
 ? Those are definition lists. Again, you appear to be confusing presentation and semantic markup. We have list markup but lists are not definitions and won't be picked up as definitions by search engines looking for a definition.
 * is not used for page breaks. It's used for logical division of content. Jamesday 15:10, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Headings, , are required where the heading fonts and structured display are required for readability of text on the page, but where the logic of the page and display favors excluding headings from the Table of Contents. See Human for an example. ---Rednblu | Talk 12:46, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Adding to style sheets

 * "...since MediaWiki now has a way to add to the global stylesheets in the wiki (at least for the main skins)"

How? —Michael Z. 2005-01-29 07:15 Z

 * MediaWiki:Monobook.css, MediaWiki:Standard.css and so on. A generic MediaWiki:Contentstyles that's included by all skins is something i plan to add, just didn't get around to do it yet. Math exams coming up, life will be more relaxed by end of February.. -- Gabriel Wicke 15:01, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)

What do all the tags mean?
It would be helpful if someone could add by all the html tags that are listed on the project page an explanation as to what each of them does? It would be helpful for those who are not familiar with html but are keen to use what we have available to us to improve Wikipedia. Thanks, jguk 07:48, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

title: Wikipedia talk:Span tags


text:
Talk:Predator (film)

Not Delta Force
I removed the bit about Dutch and his men being Delta Force. They are not US military in the film; the novel makes it clear they are in fact private military contractors occasionally employed by the US army. Hints of this remain in the film, most obviously the fact that Dutch and his team apparently have the option to pick and choose operations at will, which serving personnel would never be able to do - if they were enlisted, they would simply have to follow orders regardless of whether they wanted to or not. This alone proves they aren't military personnel, special forces or otherwise.--Leigh Burne (talk) 08:13, 8 October 2015 (UTC)

 * This is a very good point. They are operating by choice rather than orders. The only evidence that suggested they were military is Dutch's rank of "Major" but he would still be called that in this scenario even if he retired. Jason Quinn (talk) 08:21, 3 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Just a related follow-up: they are not Special Forces either as the article said prior to my recent cleanup. The skinned men hanging inside the helicopter were Special Forces (because called "Green Berets" in the film) but the film gave no evidence that Dutch and his team are Special Forces. They might have been and it would make sense but there is no evidence for it. Jason Quinn (talk) 18:46, 16 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Predator 2 established that Dutch's team were active Special Forces personnel though, so this is conflicting information. Let's not even forget the fact that Dutch referred to Mac by his military rank at one point. Dibol (talk) 08:21, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

 * Does a single, possibly erroneous line of dialogue in a sequel really overrule something that is abundantly clear in the first movie?

 * Not to mention all Keyes actually says is that they were "an elite special forces crew", which is fairly vague and open to interpretation. Likewise, the referring to each other by rank could merely be honorific, or simply an indication that Dutch retained everybody's military ranks for leadership purposes.--Leigh Burne (talk) 14:19, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

 * I was unaware that Predator 2 said they were Special Forces. Is the exact scene on Youtube? Since Dutch's team is clearly not active military, calling them Special Forces even if they once were is questionable or misleading at best and simply wrong at worst. So I think is is obvious we should avoid labeling them as such here. Jason Quinn (talk) 12:18, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

Not (active) Special Forces either
It is clear they are a paramilitary group, not a military one. Dutch is Army Airborne but the film nor script do not establish him as Special Forces. He might have been but maybe not too. Jason Quinn (talk) 04:06, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

Brazil
It took a bit of effort but I found the location for the map that General Phillips shows Dutch. The map is of the Chapada das Mangabeiras area in Brazil (easily seen in-full on the zoomed-out shot and in-part in the zoomed-in shot as it is in the largest font on the map) centered on about -10.21667°N, -44.63333°W. The missing helicopter seems to have gone down in the Parnaguá municipality. The key information I used to crack it was the municipality of Xique-Xique which can be seen to be located on the Rio São Francisco in the lower right portion of the zoomed map shown in the film.

Also interesting are the FIR/UIR lines on the map. One is the RECIFE FIR/UIR, which is Brazilan, and the adjacent one says BELEM FIR/UIR. Jason Quinn (talk) 11:55, 23 July 2019 (UTC)

 * That's a good find. But the map must be a goof, or the production team just didn't care enough to make one for the movie instead of just reusing an existing one. There's no country border nearby for the group to escape to, and the guerilleros were speaking Spanish (as does Anna) instead of Brazil's Portuguese. For me this is supposed to be situated in Central America.--176.199.18.119 (talk) 00:48, 8 August 2021 (UTC)

 * They just didn't care. In 1987, nobody imagined crystal-clear pausing for home viewership. Nor could they have imagined how easy it would become for viewers to double-check this kind of stuff. Brazil itself has nothing to do with the movie except for the fact that the map they thought that looked best on camera happened to be of Brazilian territory. Jason Quinn (talk) 00:34, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Dutch and Dillon's past
I recently removed some phrases implying that Dutch and Dillon were in Vietnam because I believed the film did not support this. Dillon does say at the 9:00 mark while in the chopper, "I was in '72, north of Huế. Me and Dutch both got one." while holding an Airborne zippo lighter. This dialogue is not in the script, which just says "Dillon seems comfortable with the men, showing Ramirez a battered CIGARETTE LIGHTER from a famed commando unit from the past." Those statements could be reinserted. Jason Quinn (talk) 13:45, 4 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I . Jason Quinn (talk) 13:53, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

General Philips
Just for future reference, General Philips is a Major General (two stars on hat and collar). Major Generals are addressed as "General" as in the film and are the highest peace time ranking. He's wearing an 82nd Airborne Division patch with Airborne tab on his right shoulder (visible during opening scenes). Presumably, he is supposed to be the general of the 82nd Division.

In the helicopter, Dillon says that he and Dutch got Airborne lighters, so they too were in the Airborne Division also likely the 82nd which would explain why Dutch has respect for Philips who would have likely been one of Dutch and Dillon's superiors at the time. The 82nd Airborne is also based out of Fort Bragg which is consistent with how Dutch knew the "Green Berets out of Fort Bragg".

Visible at the end of the film, while he's in the helicopter, Philips can be seen wearing a 3rd award (notice the two stars above) Combat Infantryman Badge, which is awarded for action in Vietnam. Below this he's also wearing an Airborne master parachutist badge but it's very difficult to discern unless you pause an high-res copy right at the moment he appears in the helicopter.

Also visible on his left shoulder is this combination of a "Special Forces" tab with a shield patch of horse with a lightning bolt. According to the link the shield patch is a "US Army 1st Special Operations Command (Airborne) (1st SOCOM) patch". But 1st Special Operations command is a new thing according to our article for that it was established only recently, much after the film. So there's some history there that I don't yet know (and our article ignores). They were apparently also active in the Vietnam War (see commons:Category:1st Special Forces Group in the Vietnam War), which would have been Philips' case. Jason Quinn (talk) 09:45, 5 March 2020 (UTC) (Struck erroneous claim Jason Quinn (talk) 01:17, 27 January 2022 (UTC))

 * He has something else above his name that looks like this patch but that's from a different division. Jason Quinn (talk) 14:33, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Okay, this might might sense. So that patch appears to come from the 17th Airborne Division (United States). It however was only active until 1949. It's possible that Philips got his start in the Army in the 17th Airborne. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:45, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

 * Useful link to see real MG of the 82nd: List of commanders of 82nd Airborne Division (United States) Jason Quinn (talk) 12:13, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

 * This video contains a still shot that shows a couple of the actual patches. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:29, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

 * UPDATE: The description on the link is likely in error. The horse and lightning bolt patch appears to belong to the 1st Special Forces Group (United States) which would have been active for Philips, not to 1st Special Forces Command (Airborne), which is a modern thing that took over. So it appears Philips history is 17 Airborne (until 1949) then 1st Special Forces Group, then 82nd Airborne. This time sequence at least makes sense. Philips would have been in the army about 38 to 40 years by the time of the movie, which is actually realistic for a Major General. Jason Quinn (talk) 15:53, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

It's noted in the article but to keep this together: name patch says "Philips" but spelled as "Phillips" in end credits. Jason Quinn (talk) 13:46, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Novelization
Val Verde as the setting given in the novelization   and replaced with Guatemala. Many websites give Val Verde as the novelization's source so I'm wondering if this is correct. Perhaps both are correct. The story takes place in more than one country. During Dutch's initial briefing he's told, "We lost a cabinet minister and his aide from this charming little country". But Dutch asks regarding the location of the downed chopper, "This cabinet minister, does he always travel on the wrong side of the border?" So Dutch's team had to cross a border for their rescue. It's very possible that in the novel, Dutch and his team arrive in Guatemala for the briefing but after the helicopter trip the setting changes to Val Verde for the search for the chopper. Jason Quinn (talk) 12:02, 7 March 2020 (UTC)

 * I own the novelisation and it never once mentions Val Verde. The opening briefing is said to take place in “Conta Mana” (a seemingly fictional state), while reading remainder of the action takes place in Guatemala. Leigh Burne (talk) 19:47, 27 July 2020 (UTC)

 * Thanks for this information, Leigh Burne. The locations for this movie certainly are a confusing state of affairs. Jason Quinn (talk) 02:33, 27 September 2020 (UTC)

 * Some info for Val Verde (fictional country). - w o lf  01:53, 12 May 2022 (UTC)

why???? my warnings are set to keep us here tonight
switch 66.29.210.6 (talk) 03:39, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Predator (film)


text:
Yudit

Yudit is a Unicode text editor for the X Window System. It also support Linux and Macx86 64-bit as well as ARM 64-bit-v8. It was first released on 1997-11-08. It can do TrueType font rendering, printing, transliterated keyboard input and handwriting recognition with no dependencies on external engines. Yudit's lack of dependence on user interface libraries like QT or GTK+ gives the software its unique look.

Yudit's conversion utilities can convert text between various encodings. Keyboard input maps can also act like text converters. There is no need for a pre-installed multi-lingual environment. Menus are translated into multiple languages.

The developer states that "since the early days of Unicode on Linux", support has improved making future versions of the program unlikely, though documentation may be updated.

It supports simultaneous processing of many languages, input methods, conversions for local character standards etc. It has facilities for entering text in all languages with only an English keyboard, using keyboard configuration maps.

The author of Yudit is Gáspár Sinai, a Hungarian programmer, living and working in Japan.

title: Yudit


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Joel Silver

Joel Silver (born July 14, 1952) is an American film producer.

Life and career
Silver was born and raised in South Orange, New Jersey, the son of a writer and a public relations executive. His family is Jewish. He attended Columbia High School in Maplewood, New Jersey. During his time there, Silver, Buzzy Hellring, and Jonny Hines created the rules for what he called "Ultimate Frisbee". He was later inducted into the USA Ultimate Hall of Fame as a result of this. He finished his undergraduate studies at the New York University's Tisch School of the Arts.

Silver began his career at Lawrence Gordon Productions, where he eventually became president of motion pictures for the company. He earned his first screen credit as the associate producer on The Warriors and, with Gordon, produced 48 Hrs., Streets of Fire, and Brewster's Millions. In 1985, he formed Silver Pictures and produced successful action films such as Commando (1985), the Lethal Weapon franchise, the first two films of the Die Hard series, as well as the first two films of the Predator series and The Matrix franchise of action films.

Silver appears on-screen at the beginning of Who Framed Roger Rabbit as Raoul J. Raoul, the director of the animated short Something's Cookin. Raoul loses his temper at toon Roger Rabbit for seeing tweety birds when a refrigerator crashes on his head, and not stars as the script specified. This was a prank Steven Spielberg and Robert Zemeckis pulled on then-Disney CEO, Michael Eisner, as Eisner and Silver had despised each other since their days at Paramount Pictures in the early 1980s, especially with the issues they faced making 48 Hrs. Silver trimmed his beard off, paid his expenses, and asked to not have his name in initial cast lists. Reportedly, when production wrapped, because Silver was unrecognizable, Eisner questioned who played Raoul and was told it was Silver, at which point, Eisner shrugged and praised his performance.

Silver directed "Split Personality", (1992), an episode of the HBO horror anthology Tales from the Crypt. He has run two production companies, Silver Pictures, and Dark Castle Entertainment, co-owned by Robert Zemeckis.

Silver is also known for his eccentric temper, inspiring characters based on him in movies such as Grand Canyon, True Romance and I'll Do Anything. The character of Les Grossman (played by Tom Cruise) in the movie Tropic Thunder, is a parody of Silver. Actor Rick Moranis parodied Silver on SCTV in the skit The Larry Siegel Talk Show.

He also voiced "the police chief" in the 2001 film Osmosis Jones in an uncredited role.

On June 24, 2019, Silver Pictures CEO Hal Sadoff announced that Silver had resigned from the company. Two days later, The Hollywood Reporter cited unnamed sources claiming that Joel Silver's overspending, dearth of recent box-office hits, and an animosity between Silver and financier Daryl Katz led to Silver's departure. No official reason has yet been given by the Katz Group, Silver Pictures, or Joel Silver himself.

On November 30, 2023, Silver was fired as a producer of Play Dirty by Amazon Studios.

Frank Lloyd Wright houses and automobiles
Silver is well known as an aficionado of architect Frank Lloyd Wright. In 1984, he bought the Wright-designed Storer House in Hollywood and made considerable investments to restore it to its original condition. The Storer House's squarish relief ornament then became the company logo of Silver Pictures. Silver sold it in 2002 for $2.9 million. In 1986, he purchased the long-neglected C. Leigh Stevens Auldbrass Plantation in Yemassee, South Carolina, and has been restoring it since then. Both restorations have been managed and supervised by the architect Eric Lloyd Wright (grandson of Frank Lloyd Wright).

Silver has also owned and restored two Lincoln Continental automobiles previously owned by Wright, one a 1940 convertible and the other a 1941 coupe. After the 1940 car was damaged, Wright had a body shop rebuild the car based on his custom redesign. For a time both cars were displayed in the Storer House.

Carmel Musgrove incident
On August 19, 2015, Silver's 28-year-old assistant Carmel Musgrove drowned in a lagoon while working on vacation with Silver and his family in Bora Bora. Later, in August 2017, Musgrove's family sued Silver and his assistant Martin Herold, arguing the latter had provided her with cocaine, which, along with alcohol consumption and exhaustion from work, they alleged had contributed to her death. Silver was exonerated in February 2021 by a Los Angeles judge.

Producer
Film
 * Xanadu (1980) (co-producer)
 * 48 Hrs. (1982)
 * Streets of Fire (1984)
 * Brewster's Millions (1985)
 * Weird Science (1985)
 * Commando (1985)
 * Jumpin' Jack Flash (1986)
 * Lethal Weapon (1987)
 * Predator (1987)
 * Action Jackson (1988)
 * Die Hard (1988)
 * Road House (1989)
 * Lethal Weapon 2 (1989)
 * Die Hard 2 (1990)
 * The Adventures of Ford Fairlane (1990)
 * Predator 2 (1990)
 * Hudson Hawk (1991)
 * Ricochet (1991)
 * The Last Boy Scout (1991)
 * Lethal Weapon 3 (1992)
 * Demolition Man (1993)
 * Richie Rich (1994)
 * Assassins (1995)
 * Fair Game (1995)
 * The First 100 Years: A Celebration of American Movies (1995) (TV documentary film)
 * Executive Decision (1996)
 * Fathers' Day (1997)
 * Conspiracy Theory (1997)
 * Double Tap (1997)
 * Lethal Weapon 4 (1998)
 * The Matrix (1999)
 * Made Men (1999)
 * House on Haunted Hill (1999)
 * Romeo Must Die (2000)
 * Exit Wounds (2001)
 * Swordfish (2001)
 * Thirteen Ghosts (2001)
 * Ghost Ship (2002)
 * Cradle 2 the Grave (2003)
 * The Matrix Reloaded (2003)
 * The Matrix Revolutions (2003)
 * Gothika (2003)
 * House of Wax (2005)
 * Kiss Kiss Bang Bang (2005)
 * V for Vendetta (2006)
 * The Reaping (2007)
 * The Invasion (2007)
 * The Brave One (2007)
 * Fred Claus (2007)
 * Speed Racer (2008)
 * RocknRolla (2008)
 * Orphan (2009)
 * Whiteout (2009)
 * Ninja Assassin (2009)
 * Sherlock Holmes (2009)
 * The Book of Eli (2010)
 * The Losers (2010)
 * Unknown (2011)
 * Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows (2011)
 * Dragon Eyes (2012)
 * Stash House (2012)
 * The Apparition (2012)
 * The Factory (2012)
 * Getaway (2013)
 * Non-Stop (2014)
 * The Nice Guys (2016)
 * Collide (2016)
 * Superfly (2018)
 * Road House (2024)

Acting roles
Film

Television

Other credits
Film

Television

title: Joel Silver


text:
Hospital-acquired infection

A hospital-acquired infection, also known as a nosocomial infection (from the Greek nosokomeion, meaning "hospital"), is an infection that is acquired in a hospital or other healthcare facility. To emphasize both hospital and nonhospital settings, it is sometimes instead called a healthcare-associated infection. Such an infection can be acquired in a hospital, nursing home, rehabilitation facility, outpatient clinic, diagnostic laboratory or other clinical settings. A number of dynamic processes can bring contamination into operating rooms and other areas within nosocomial settings. Infection is spread to the susceptible patient in the clinical setting by various means. Healthcare staff also spread infection, in addition to contaminated equipment, bed linens, or air droplets. The infection can originate from the outside environment, another infected patient, staff that may be infected, or in some cases, the source of the infection cannot be determined. In some cases the microorganism originates from the patient's own skin microbiota, becoming opportunistic after surgery or other procedures that compromise the protective skin barrier. Though the patient may have contracted the infection from their own skin, the infection is still considered nosocomial since it develops in the health care setting. Nosocomial infection tends to lack evidence that it was present when the patient entered the healthcare setting, thus meaning it was acquired post-admission.

Effects
During 2002 in the United States, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention estimated that roughly 1.7 million healthcare-associated infections, from all types of microorganisms, including bacteria and fungi combined, caused or contributed to 99,000 deaths. In Europe, where hospital surveys have been conducted, the category of gram-negative infections are estimated to account for two-thirds of the 25,000 deaths each year. Nosocomial infections can cause severe pneumonia and infections of the urinary tract, bloodstream and other parts of the body. Many types display antimicrobial resistance, which can complicate treatment.

In the UK about 300,000 patients were affected in 2017, and this was estimated to cost the NHS about £1 billion a year.

Types

 * Hospital-acquired pneumonia
 * Ventilator-associated pneumonia
 * Urinary tract infection
 * Gastroenteritis
 * Puerperal fever
 * Central line-associated blood stream infection

Organisms

 * Staphylococcus aureus
 * Methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus
 * Candida albicans
 * Pseudomonas aeruginosa
 * ''Acinetobacter baumannii'
 * Stenotrophomonas maltophilia
 * Clostridium difficile
 * Escherichia coli
 * Tuberculosis
 * Vancomycin-resistant Enterococcus
 * Legionnaires' disease

Transmission
In-dwelling catheters have recently been identified with hospital-acquired infections. To deal with this complication, procedures are used, called intravascular antimicrobial lock therapy, that can reduce infections that are unexposed to blood-borne antibiotics. Introducing antibiotics, including ethanol, into the catheter (without flushing it into the bloodstream) reduces the formation of biofilms.

Contact transmission is divided into two subgroups: direct-contact transmission and indirect-contact transmission.

Patient susceptibility
Alongside reducing vectors for transmission, patient susceptibility to hospital-acquired infections needs to be considered. Factors which render patients at greater risk of infections include:

 * 1) Receipt of immunosuppressive medications such as glucocorticoids or immunosuppressive drugs as part of treatments for cancer, organ transplantation or autoimmune diseases
 * 2) Impaired immunity due to diseases such as haematological malignancy, primary immunodeficiency, HIV/AIDS or critical illness, including severe COVID-19
 * 3) Presence of indwelling devices which breach natural defences, including endotracheal tubes, central venous catheters and urinary catheters.
 * 4) The use of antibiotics does not, itself, increase risk of hospital-acquired infections, but does contribute to the prevalence of Antimicrobial resistant organisms amongst patients with hospital-acquired infections

Device-associated infections
Given the association between invasive devices and hospital-acquired infections, specific terms are used to delineate such infections to allow for monitoring and prevention. Noted device-associated infections include ventilator-associated pneumonia, catheter-associated blood stream infections, catheter-associated urinary tract infections and device-associated ventriculitis. Surveillance for these infections is commonly undertaken and reported by bodies such as the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Prevention
Controlling nosocomial infection is to implement QA/QC measures to the health care sectors, and evidence-based management can be a feasible approach. For those with ventilator-associated or hospital-acquired pneumonia, controlling and monitoring hospital indoor air quality needs to be on agenda in management, whereas for nosocomial rotavirus infection, a hand hygiene protocol has to be enforced.

To reduce the number of hospital-acquired infections, the state of Maryland implemented the Maryland Hospital-Acquired Conditions Program that provides financial rewards and penalties for individual hospitals. An adaptation of the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services payment policy causes poor-performing hospitals to lose up to 3% of their inpatient revenues, whereas hospitals that are able to decrease hospital-acquired infections can earn up to 3% in rewards. During the program's first two years, complication rates fell by 15.26% across all hospital-acquired conditions tracked by the state (including those not covered by the program), from a risk-adjusted complication rate of 2.38 per 1,000 people in 2009 to a rate of 2.02 in 2011. The 15.26% decline translates into more than $100 million in cost savings for the health care system in Maryland, with the largest savings coming from avoidance of urinary tract infections, sepsis and other severe infections, and pneumonia and other lung infections. If similar results could be achieved nationwide, the Medicare program would save an estimated $1.3 billion over two years, while the US health care system as a whole would save $5.3 billion.

Sanitation
Hospitals have sanitation protocols regarding uniforms, equipment sterilization, washing, and other preventive measures. Thorough hand washing and/or use of alcohol rubs by all medical personnel before and after each patient contact is one of the most effective ways to combat nosocomial infections. More careful use of antimicrobial agents, such as antibiotics, is also considered vital. As many hospital-acquired infections caused by bacteria such as methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, methicillin-susceptible Staphylococcus aureus, and Clostridium difficile are caused by a breach of these protocols, it is common that affected patients make medical negligence claims against the hospital in question.

Sanitizing surfaces is part of control measures to reduce nosocomial infections in health care environments. Modern sanitizing methods such as Non-flammable Alcohol Vapor in Carbon Dioxide systems have been effective against gastroenteritis, methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, and influenza agents. Use of hydrogen peroxide vapor has been clinically proven to reduce infection rates and risk of acquisition. Hydrogen peroxide is effective against endospore-forming bacteria, such as Clostridium difficile, where alcohol has been shown to be ineffective. Ultraviolet cleaning devices may also be used to disinfect the rooms of patients infected with Clostridium difficile or methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus after discharge.

Despite sanitation protocol, patients cannot be entirely isolated from infectious agents. Furthermore, patients are often prescribed antibiotics and other antimicrobial drugs to help treat illness; this may increase the selection pressure for the emergence of resistant strains.

Sterilization
Sterilization goes further than just sanitizing. It kills all microorganisms on equipment and surfaces through exposure to chemicals, ionizing radiation, dry heat, or steam under pressure.

Isolation
Isolation is the implementation of isolating precautions designed to prevent transmission of microorganisms by common routes in hospitals. (See Universal precautions and Transmission-based precautions.) Because agent and host factors are more difficult to control, interruption of transfer of microorganisms is directed primarily at transmission for example isolation of infectious cases in special hospitals and isolation of patient with infected wounds in special rooms also isolation of joint transplantation patients on specific rooms.

Handwashing
Handwashing frequently is called the single most important measure to reduce the risks of transmitting skin microorganisms from one person to another or from one site to another on the same patient. Washing hands as promptly and thoroughly as possible between patient contacts and after contact with blood, body fluids, secretions, excretions, and equipment or articles contaminated by them is an important component of infection control and isolation precautions. The spread of nosocomial infections, among immunocompromised patients is connected with health care workers' hand contamination in almost 40% of cases, and is a challenging problem in the modern hospitals. The best way for workers to overcome this problem is conducting correct hand-hygiene procedures; this is why the WHO launched in 2005 the GLOBAL Patient Safety Challenge.

Two categories of micro-organisms can be present on health care workers' hands: transient flora and resident flora. The first is represented by the micro-organisms taken by workers from the environment, and the bacteria in it are capable of surviving on the human skin and sometimes to grow. The second group is represented by the permanent micro-organisms living on the skin surface (on the stratum corneum or immediately under it). They are capable of surviving on the human skin and to grow freely on it. They have low pathogenicity and infection rate, and they create a kind of protection from the colonization from other more pathogenic bacteria. The skin of workers is colonized by 3.9 × 104 – 4.6 × 106 cfu/cm2. The microbes comprising the resident flora are: Staphylococcus epidermidis, Staphylococcus hominis, and Microccocus, Propionibacterium, Corynebacterium, Dermobacterium, and Pitosporum spp., while transient organisms are Staphylococcus aureus, and Klebsiella pneumoniae, and Acinetobacter, Enterobacter and Candida spp. The goal of hand hygiene is to eliminate the transient flora with a careful and proper performance of hand washing, using different kinds of soap, (normal and antiseptic), and alcohol-based gels. The main problems found in the practice of hand hygiene is connected with the lack of available sinks and time-consuming performance of hand washing. An easy way to resolve this problem could be the use of alcohol-based hand rubs, because of faster application compared to correct hand-washing.

Improving patient hand washing has also been shown to reduce the rate of nosocomial infection. Patients who are bed-bound often do not have as much access to clean their hands at mealtimes or after touching surfaces or handling waste such as tissues. By reinforcing the importance of handwashing and providing sanitizing gel or wipes within reach of the bed, nurses were directly able to reduce infection rates. A study published in 2017 demonstrated this by improving patient education on both proper hand-washing procedure and important times to use sanitizer and successfully reduced the rate of enterococci and Staphylococcus aureus.

All visitors must follow the same procedures as hospital staff to adequately control the spread of infections. Moreover, multidrug-resistant infections can leave the hospital and become part of the community flora if steps are not taken to stop this transmission.

It is unclear whether or not nail polish or rings affected surgical wound infection rates.

Gloves
In addition to hand washing, gloves play an important role in reducing the risks of transmission of microorganisms. Gloves are worn for three important reasons in hospitals. First, they are worn to provide a protective barrier for personnel, preventing large scale contamination of the hands when touching blood, body fluids, secretions, excretions, mucous membranes, and non-intact skin. In the United States, the Occupational Safety and Health Administration has mandated wearing gloves to reduce the risk of bloodborne pathogen infections. Second, gloves are worn to reduce the likelihood that microorganisms present on the hands of personnel will be transmitted to patients during invasive or other patient-care procedures that involve touching a patient's mucous membranes and nonintact skin. Third, they are worn to reduce the likelihood that the hands of personnel contaminated with micro-organisms from a patient or a fomite can transmit those micro-organisms to another patient. In this situation, gloves must be changed between patient contacts, and hands should be washed after gloves are removed.

Antimicrobial surfaces
Micro-organisms are known to survive on inanimate "touch" surfaces for extended periods of time. This can be especially troublesome in hospital environments where immunodeficient patients are at enhanced risk for contracting nosocomial infections. Patients with hospital-acquired infections are predominantly hospitalized in different types of intensive care units (ICUs).

Touch surfaces commonly found in hospital rooms, such as bed rails, call buttons, touch plates, chairs, door handles, light switches, grab rails, intravenous poles, dispensers (alcohol gel, paper towel, soap), dressing trolleys, and counter and table tops are known to be contaminated with Staphylococcus, methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (one of the most virulent strains of antibiotic-resistant bacteria) and vancomycin-resistant Enterococcus. Objects in closest proximity to patients have the highest levels of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus and vancomycin-resistant Enterococcus. This is why touch surfaces in hospital rooms can serve as sources, or reservoirs, for the spread of bacteria from the hands of healthcare workers and visitors to patients.

A number of compounds can decrease the risk of bacteria growing on surfaces including: copper, silver, and germicides.

There have been a number of studies evaluating the use of no-touch cleaning systems particularly the use of ultraviolet C devices. One review was inconclusive due to lack of, or of poor quality evidence. Other reviews have found some evidence, and growing evidence of their effectiveness.

Treatment
Two of the bacteria species most likely to infect patients are the Gram-positive strains of methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus, and Gram-negative Acinetobacter baumannii. While antibiotic drugs to treat diseases caused by methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus are available, few effective drugs are available for Acinetobacter. Acinetobacter bacteria are evolving and becoming immune to antibiotics, so in many cases, polymyxin-type antibacterials need to be used. "In many respects it's far worse than MRSA", said a specialist at Case Western Reserve University.

Another growing disease, especially prevalent in New York City hospitals, is the drug-resistant, Gram-negative Klebsiella pneumoniae. An estimated more than 20% of the Klebsiella infections in Brooklyn hospitals "are now resistant to virtually all modern antibiotics, and those supergerms are now spreading worldwide."

The bacteria, classified as Gram-negative because of their color on the Gram stain, can cause severe pneumonia and infections of the urinary tract, bloodstream, and other parts of the body. Their cell structures make them more difficult to attack with antibiotics than Gram-positive organisms like methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus. In some cases, antibiotic resistance is spreading to Gram-negative bacteria that can infect people outside the hospital. "For gram-positives we need better drugs; for gram-negatives we need any drugs", said Brad Spellberg, an infectious-disease specialist at Harbor–UCLA Medical Center, and the author of Rising Plague, a book about drug-resistant pathogens.

Hospital-acquired pneumonia (HAP) is the second most common nosocomial infection and accounts for approximately one-fourth of all infections in the intensive care unit (ICU). HAP, or nosocomial pneumonia, is a lower respiratory infection that was not incubating at the time of hospital admission and that presents clinically two or more days after hospitalization. Ventilator-associated pneumonia (VAP) is defined as HAP in patients receiving mechanical ventilation. The incidence of VAP is 10–30% among patients who require mechanical ventilation for >48 h. A standard treatment protocol is based on accurate diagnosis definitions, microbiological confirmation of VAP, and the administration of imipenem plus ciprofloxacin as initial empirical antibiotic treatment.

One-third of nosocomial infections are considered preventable. The CDC estimates 687,000 people in the United States were infected by hospital-acquired infections in 2015, resulting in 72,000 deaths. The most common nosocomial infections are of the urinary tract, surgical site and various pneumonias.

An alternative treatment targeting localised infections is the use of irradiation by ultraviolet C.

Epidemiology
The methods used differ from country to country (definitions used, type of nosocomial infections covered, health units surveyed, inclusion or exclusion of imported infections, etc.), so the international comparisons of nosocomial infection rates should be made with the utmost care.

Belgium
In Belgium, the prevalence of nosocomial infections is about 6.2%. Annually about 125,500 patients become infected by a nosocomial infection, resulting in almost 3000 deaths. The extra costs for the health insurance are estimated to be approximately €400 million/year.

France
Estimates ranged from 6.7% in 1990 to 7.4% (patients may have several infections). At national level, prevalence among patients in health care facilities was 6.7% in 1996, 5.9% in 2001 and 5.0% in 2006. The rates for nosocomial infections were 7.6% in 1996, 6.4% in 2001 and 5.4% in 2006.

In 2006, the most common infection sites were urinary tract infections (30.3%), pneumopathy (14.7%), infections of surgery site (14.2%). Infections of the skin and mucous membrane (10.2%), other respiratory infections (6.8%) and bacterial infections / blood poisoning (6.4%). The rates among adult patients in intensive care were 13.5% in 2004, 14.6% in 2005, 14.1% in 2006 and 14.4% in 2007.

Nosocomial infections are estimated to make patients stay in the hospital for four to five additional days. Around 2004–2005, about 9,000 people died each year with a nosocomial infection, of which about 4,200 would have survived without this infection.

Finland
Rate was estimated at 8.5% of patients in 2005.

Italy
Since 2000, estimates show about a 6.7% infection rate, i.e. between 450,000 and 700,000 patients, which caused between 4,500 and 7,000 deaths. A survey in Lombardy gave a rate of 4.9% of patients in 2000.

Switzerland
Estimates range between 2 and 14%. A national survey gave a rate of 7.2% in 2004.

United Kingdom
In 2012, the Health Protection Agency reported the prevalence rate of hospital-acquired infections in England was 6.4% in 2011, against a rate of 8.2% in 2006, with respiratory tract, urinary tract and surgical site infections the most common types of infections reported. In 2018, it was reported that in-hospital infections had risen from 5,972 in 2008 to 48,815 in 2017.

United States
The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) estimated roughly 1.7 million hospital-associated infections, from all types of bacteria combined, cause or contribute to 99,000 deaths each year. Other estimates indicate 10%, or 2 million, patients a year become infected, with the annual cost ranging from $4.5 billion to $11 billion. In the US, the most frequent type of hospital infection is urinary tract infection (36%), followed by surgical site infection (20%), and bloodstream infection and pneumonia (both 11%).

History

In 1841, Ignaz Semmelweis, a Hungarian obstetrician was working at a Vienna maternity hospital. He was "shocked" by the death rate of women who developed puerperal fever. He documented that mortality was three times higher in the ward where the medical students were delivering babies than in the next ward that was staffed by midwifery students. The medical students were also routinely working with cadavers. He compared the rates of infection with a similar hospital in Dublin, Ireland, and hypothesized that it was the medical students who somehow were infecting the women after labor. He instituted mandatory hand-washing in May 1847 and infection rates dropped dramatically. Louis Pasteur proposed the germ theory of disease and began his work on cholera in 1865 by identifying that it was microorganisms that were associated with disease.

title: Hospital-acquired infection


text:
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If you have uploaded other non-free media, consider checking that you have specified how these images fully satisfy our non-free content criteria. You can find a list of description pages you have edited by clicking on [ this link]. Note that even if you follow steps 1 and 2 above, non-free media which could be replaced by freely licensed alternatives will be deleted 2 days after this notification (7 days if uploaded before 13 July 2006), per our non-free content policy. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Stifle (talk) 10:41, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Disputed non-free use rationale for File:Umpire Al Barlick.jpg
Thank you for uploading File:Umpire Al Barlick.jpg. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this file on Wikipedia may not meet the criteria required by Non-free content. This can be corrected by going to the file description page and adding or clarifying the reason why the file qualifies under this policy. Adding and completing one of the templates available from Non-free use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your file is in compliance with Wikipedia policy. Please be aware that a non-free use rationale is not the same as an image copyright tag; descriptions for files used under the non-free content policy require both a copyright tag and a non-free use rationale.

If it is determined that the file does not qualify under the non-free content policy, it might be deleted by an administrator within a few days in accordance with our criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions, please ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thank you. Stifle (talk) 11:02, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

File:Cobb sliding baseball.jpg listed for deletion
An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, File:Cobb sliding baseball.jpg, has been listed at Files for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Calliopejen1 (talk) 18:29, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

NowCommons: File:Kenesaw Mountain Landis Baseball.jpg
File:Kenesaw Mountain Landis Baseball.jpg is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:File:Kenesaw Mountain Landis Baseball.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case:. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 16:49, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

AfD nomination of Talmadge Blevins
An editor has nominated one or more articles which you have created or worked on, for deletion. The nominated article is Talmadge Blevins. We appreciate your contributions, but the nominator doesn't believe that the article satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion and has explained why in his/her nomination (see also Notability and "What Wikipedia is not").

Your opinions on whether the article meets inclusion criteria and what should be done with the article are welcome; please participate in the discussion(s) by adding your comments to Articles for deletion/Talmadge Blevins (2nd nomination). Please be sure to sign your comments with four tildes ( ~ ).

You may also edit the article during the discussion to improve it but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion debate.

Please note: This is an automatic notification by a bot. I have nothing to do with this article or the deletion nomination, and can't do anything about it. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:05, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Lafayette college leopard logo.gif
 Thanks for uploading File:Lafayette college leopard logo.gif. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Thank you. DASHBot (talk) 06:13, 28 May 2010 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:49, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Fox (song)

The article Fox (song) has been proposed for deletion  because of the following concern:
 * No references, no claim of notability, fails WP:NSONG and WP:GNG.

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on |the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Richhoncho (talk) 18:24, 29 January 2016 (UTC)

File:Mike Donlin Baseball.jpg needs authorship information
Dear uploader:

The media file you uploaded as File:Mike Donlin Baseball.jpg appears to be missing information as to one (or more) of the following :
 * 1) The author or creators of the work, (including information as to the author's lifespan).
 * 2) Where and how this particular version was obtained.
 * 3) When the work was created,

If you did provide such information, it is currently confusing for others trying to make use of the image.

It would be appreciated if you would consider updating the file description page, to make the authorship of the media clearer.

Although some images may not need author information in obvious cases, (such where an applicable source is provided), authorship information aids users of the image, and helps ensure that appropriate credit is given (a requirement of some licenses).

 * If you created this media yourself, please consider explicitly including your user name, for which: will produce an appropriate expansion, or use the own template.

Please also add authorship and sourcing to other files you created or uplopaded. You can find a list of files you have created [ in your upload log].

If you have any questions please see Help:File page. Thank you. ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC) ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:59, 19 June 2018 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Supreme Court Justice John McLean.gif

The file File:Supreme Court Justice John McLean.gif has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "unused, low-res, no obvious use"

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This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 01:02, 13 May 2019 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Al Spalding Baseball.jpg

The file File:Al Spalding Baseball.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "unused, low-res, no obvious use"

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Proposed deletion of File:John clapp baseball player.jpg

The file File:John clapp baseball player.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "unused, low-res, no obvious use"

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Proposed deletion of File:Erik Ohlsson cropped.JPG

The file File:Erik Ohlsson cropped.JPG has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "unused, low-res, no obvious use"

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This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 01:01, 15 March 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Dan Brouthers Baseball Card.jpg

The file File:Dan Brouthers Baseball Card.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Redundant to File:Dan Brouthers 0556fu.jpg which is hosted on Commons"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Proposed deletion of File:Schalk Ray Baseball.jpg

The file File:Schalk Ray Baseball.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "unused, low-res, no obvious use"

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Proposed deletion of File:Ross Barnes Baseball Player.jpg

The file File:Ross Barnes Baseball Player.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "unused, low-res, no obvious use"

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This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 01:02, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Sam Crawford Baseball.jpg

The file File:Sam Crawford Baseball.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Unused (virtual) duplicate of File:Sam Crawford, Detroit Tigers, baseball card portrait LCCN2007685676.jpg"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ‡ Єl Cid of Valencia talk  17:42, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Tim Keefe Baseball Card.jpg

The file File:Tim Keefe Baseball Card.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Orphaned image with three versions of the same image (same markings from fold) already available with better source information on Commons: File:Tim Keefe 0558fu.jpg, File:Tim Keefe, New York Giants, baseball card portrait LCCN2007680741.jpg, and File:Tim Keefe, New York Giants, baseball card portrait LCCN2007680741.tif"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ★ Bigr   Tex  23:55, 3 April 2022 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Shad barry baseball card.jpg

The file File:Shad barry baseball card.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Orphaned image with higher resolution, better documented copy (with the same dirt spots) already at Commons: File:Shad Barry, Milwaukee Team, baseball card portrait LCCN2008677000.jpg"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ★ Bigr   Tex  00:40, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Gavvy Cravath Baseball Card.jpg

The file File:Gavvy Cravath Baseball Card.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Better quality version of the same image (matching stains) from the same source already resides on Commons (File:Gavvy Cravath, Minneapolis Team, baseball card portrait LCCN2008677005.jpg)"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ★ Bigr   Tex  01:56, 11 April 2022 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Hughie Jennings Baseball Card.jpg

The file File:Hughie Jennings Baseball Card.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Image of the same card (crease, ink offset, stains) is available on Commons with higher resolution and better source information at File:Hughie Jennings, Detroit Tigers, baseball card portrait LCCN2008676586.jpg"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ★ Bigr   Tex  03:39, 12 April 2022 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Patsy dougherty baseball card.jpg

The file File:Patsy dougherty baseball card.jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "A higher resolution image of the same card (same rounded corners, ink offset) is already available on Commons with more complete source information."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ★ Bigr   Tex  01:39, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Millencolin / Midtown

The article Millencolin / Midtown has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Fails WP:MUSIC and WP:GNG"

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Tooncool64 (talk) 23:18, 22 December 2023 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:Millencolin-Midtown cover.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Millencolin-Midtown cover.jpg. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:36, 1 January 2024 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mattingly23