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Larry Lieber

Lawrence D. Lieber (born October 26, 1931) is an American comic book writer and artist best known as co-creator of the Marvel Comics superheroes Iron Man, Thor, and Ant-Man. He is also known for his long stint both writing and drawing the Marvel Western Rawhide Kid and for illustrating the newspaper comic strip The Amazing Spider-Man from 1986 to 2018. From 1974 to 1975, he was editor of Atlas/Seaboard Comics. Lieber is the younger brother of the late Marvel Comics writer, editor, and publisher Stan Lee.

Early life
Larry Lieber was born in Manhattan, New York City, the second child of Romanian-Jewish immigrant parents Celia (née Solomon) and Jack Lieber, and the brother of Stanley Martin Lieber, later known as Marvel Comics editor and impresario Stan Lee. When he was six months old, the family moved to The Bronx, settling at 1720 University Avenue, which Lee described as a one-bedroom, "third-floor apartment facing out back", with him and Larry sharing a bedroom and his parents using a foldout couch. At "about ten-and-a-half", with his brother in the U.S. Army, Lieber and his parents returned to Manhattan, moving to the Washington Heights neighborhood. Already interested in art and drawing by this time, he attended George Washington High School there.

Lee wrote in his autobiography that when Larry was a teenager, the boys' mother died and Lieber went to live with his brother and his sister-in-law, Joan, prompting the trio's move to Woodmere, New York, on Long Island. Lee elsewhere described that move to a two-story, three-bedroom home at 1084 West Broadway as occurring in 1949, when Larry would have been 17 or 18. As Lieber recalled it to comics historian Daniel Best, "My mother died when I was 16. My brother was back from the Service, he was just married and he moved out outside of New York to Long Island. I lived with him for a while and it didn't work out so well. I wanted to leave, so I left. I was very young and I had a couple of jobs."

At 17, Lieber became a messenger for The New York Times and also found work at the Times Square studio of Sam Furber, a letterer whose work included movie posters. For roughly a year and a half, he lived in the since-defunct Hotel Manhattan Towers, a residence hotel at Broadway and West 76th Street in Manhattan.

Early work
In 1941, Lee was made the editor of Timely Comics, the future Marvel Comics, then a division of a publishing company owned by a relative, Martin Goodman. Lieber began working for Goodman as an art assistant on the magazine side, "doing paste-ups. ... I was working during the day and I went to [the Pratt Institute art school, in Brooklyn, in] the evening." There Lieber began illustrating comic books; his first known credit is penciling and inking the four-page crime comics story "Cop on the Beat", by an unknown writer, in All True Crime #44 (cover-dated May 1951).

In 1951, he enlisted in the U.S. Air Force, beginning four years of military service. Serving during the Korean War, he spent two of those years stationed at Okinawa, after having done his boot-camp training at the since-defunct Sampson Air Force Base, near the Finger Lakes region of New York State.

1950s
After returning from the service, Lieber attended Manhattan's Art Students League. "I still wanted to be an artist and do comics, but I had in mind to eventually become an illustrator," he said in 1999. "I was drawing, but I was slow." He again drew for his brother, editor Stan Lee, at the 1950s forerunner of Marvel Comics, known generally as Atlas Comics, though whether on staff or freelance is uncertain. Regardless, his next confirmed credit is penciling and inking the three-page story "A World to Conquer" in Journey into Unknown Worlds #52 (Dec. 1956), followed by stories in such Atlas romance comics as Love Romances, Love Tales, Stories of Romance, True Tales of Love and The Romances of Nurse Helen Grant in issues cover-dated April to August 1957 and July 1958. Because it was not standard industry practice during this time to give writer and artist credits, Lieber may have supplied more. He recalled in 1999 he had written some or all of these stories himself, "because I remember Stan was saying to me, 'You write romances really well.'" In 1958, following an economic downturn for the publisher and the firing of virtually all the comics staffers save Lee, "Stan said he wanted somebody to help him write, and he had nobody then; he was doing it all himself. I said, 'I'm not really a writer.' He said, 'Oh, I've read your letters.'"

Lieber, by now living in the Tudor City apartment complex in Manhattan, began freelancing regularly for the nascent Marvel Comics, "writing stories for Jack [Kirby] to draw", referring to the artist who had co-created Captain America for the company in 1940 and had recently returned for a long, exclusive stint in which Kirby would co-create many signature Marvel characters in the Silver Age of Comics. At this point in the late 1950s, Kirby was drawing science fiction / fantasy stories followed by giant-monster tales in what collectors and historians call "pre-superhero Marvel" comics, primarily Journey into Mystery, Strange Tales, Tales of Suspense and Tales to Astonish. As Lieber recalled of those creature features,

"Stan made up the plot, and then he'd give it to me, and I'd write the script. Tudor City had a park, and when it was nice I'd sit there and break the story down picture by picture. I was unsure of myself just sitting down to write a script. Since I knew how to draw, I'd think, 'Oh, this shot will have a guy coming this way ... this shot will have a guy looking down on him,' and later I'd sit at the typewriter and type it up. After a while, I'd just go to the typewriter. ... These were all scripts in advance [that Kirby would illustrate]."

Lieber's earliest, tentatively confirmed pre-superhero Marvel script is for the six-page Don Heck-illustrated "I Am the Beast-Man" in Strange Tales #77 (Oct. 1960), and his first confirmed is the 13-page "I Led the Strange Search for Manoo", penciled by Kirby and inked by Dick Ayers, in Amazing Adventures #2 (July 1961).

Marvel superheroes and the Rawhide Kid
Under Stan Lee plots, Lieber would go on to script the debut origin stories and other early appearances of the superheroes Thor (co-created with artist Jack Kirby) in Journey into Mystery, Iron Man (co-created with Kirby and Don Heck) in Tales of Suspense, and Ant-Man (co-created with Kirby) in Tales to Astonish. This included creating the names of their respective alter egos: Don Blake, Tony Stark, and Henry Pym. His first superhero work, the first appearance of Marvel's Thor in Journey into Mystery #83 (Aug. 1962), introduced one of the mainstays of the Marvel Universe, the mystical metal "uru", of which Thor's hammer Mjolnir is made. As Lieber recalled, "I kind of liked it; it was short. It's easy on the letterer; they're going to be using it all the time. I don't know where the hell I came up with it. I used to get names out of the back of the dictionary, from the biographical section where you have foreign names, Russian, this and that. I used to go to it and gets parts of names to put together."

As Stan Lee recalled, in his trademark jocular style, in 1974,

"Heretofore, I had written all of the origin tales of each new character, as well as the subsequent follow-up stories in every series. But now it was impossible. I simply wouldn't have the time to continue with The Fantastic Four, The Hulk, Spider-Man and the other odd Western, mystery, romance, humor, and assorted monster tales I was writing and still do justice to our newest feature yet a'borning. ... [As well i]t was simply too risky for me not to be grooming some other writers to fill the break if necessary.

I needed someone to write the new feature, which would hopefully be Marvel's fourth winner in our little superhero sweepstakes. Slowly surveying our entire, vast writing staff — which mainly consisted of myself and any occasional freelancer who happened to wander in to make a free phone call — my ... gaze happened to fall upon ... Larry Lieber — and I remembered that he had many times expressed a desire to write a superhero story. ..."

Lieber in 1999 remembered circumstances less hyperbolically: "Thor was just another story. I didn't think about it at all. Stan said, 'I'm trying to make up a character,' and he gave me the plot, and he said, 'Why don't you write the story?'" Under Lee's plotting, Lieber's eight Thor stories also introduced the Marvel characters Loki, Odin, and Balder, from the pantheon of Norse mythological gods; their home, Asgard; and Bifrost the Rainbow Bridge, which connected that realm to Earth. For another series, starring the Human Torch from the Fantastic Four, Lieber co-created the longstanding supervillain the Wizard in Strange Tales #102 (Nov. 1962).

After the debut Iron Man story in Tales of Suspense #39 (March 1963), however, Lee replaced Lieber with Robert Bernstein, writing as "R. Berns", for the next seven issues before Lee took over the reins himself for a few stories. Don Rico, writing as "N. Korok", followed for a two-issue stint. Lee then took over as regular writer for the next few years. Lieber wrote the first nine Ant-Man stories (following the character's non-costumed introduction months earlier) in Tales to Astonish #35-43 (Sept. 1962 - May 1963) before veteran Ernie Hart did five issues, followed by Lee taking over. As Lieber explained, Lee

"... wasn't always the most patient person and I had problems [writing] the dialogue and he said, 'Why did you say that? You could have said it this way, or this way or that way,' and I'm realizing, yeah, I don't think of it that way or this way. So at any rate finally I think at one point he got a little exasperated and he said, ...'I'm going to hire some of the old pros.' He remembered writers from the past. ... He still gave me work, he didn't want to take work away, but they were putting out a few more books. So he hired somebody and then the next week when I came back to him he said, ...'Larry, you know something, you're no good, but you're better than these other guys'. So that was my first victory if you want to call that a victory, right. The others are worse than me."

Lieber, who credits Lee as a good editor, writer and writing teacher, said his brother made very few editorial changes to Lieber's scripts. "He would go over it and ... if it were in the early years, he might correct or change a line or two. But he always used it. ... I never had to, you know, go home and do it again. He was very easy, he was showing me ... and he'd make some little corrections. And as time went on, he had fewer to make."

Lieber largely left superheroes to write and pencil what would be his signature series, the Marvel Western Rawhide Kid, beginning with issue #41 (Aug. 1964) and continuing through 1973 (after which it became a reprint title). Lieber recalled,

"I don't remember why I wanted to do it, particularly. I think I wanted a little more freedom. I didn't do enough of the superheroes to know whether I'd like them. What I didn't prefer was the style that was developing. It didn't appeal to me. ... Maybe there was just too much humor in it, or too much something. ... I remember, at the time, I wanted to make everything serious. I didn't want to give a light tone to it. When I did Rawhide Kid, I wanted people to cry as if they were watching High Noon or something.

... I'm a little unclear about leaving the superheroes and going to Rawhide Kid. I know that at the time I wanted — what's the expression? — a little space for myself or something, and I wanted to do a little drawing again."

Lieber also penciled The Amazing Spider-Man Annual #4-5 (1967-1968), the latter introducing in flashback the late parents of protagonist Peter Parker; co-wrote and co-penciled the first solo Doctor Doom feature story, in Marvel Super-Heroes #20 (May 1969); and did occasional other work including, for Magazine Management's men's magazines, several stories of the bawdy "nudie-cutie" comedy feature "Pussycat".

With the end of his run on Rawhide Kid, Lieber found little further Marvel work. He scripted and occasionally also drew the odd Western or Sgt. Fury war-comics story or a standalone tale in one of the Marvel line of black-and-white magazines such as Vampire Tales or Haunt of Horror. "It wasn't a very easy period," he said in 1999. "They needed superhero-reprint covers, and I could do them somewhat in Kirby's style." He considered seeking work at rival DC Comics, as some other Marvel writers and artists did, but found, "I was the only one who could never do that because that was the price for Stan being my brother. So I could never do that. ... They would have thought Stan Lee is sending over a spy or something you know. I would see what they're doing and go back or whatever the hell it was. So I couldn't do that, I couldn't work."

Atlas/Seaboard and return to Marvel
In 1974, Lieber left Marvel to take on an editorship at Atlas/Seaboard Comics, the term comic book historians and collectors use to refer to the "Atlas Comics" line published by Seaboard Periodicals, to differentiate it from the 1950s Marvel Comics predecessor Atlas Comics. Marvel Comics founder and longtime publisher Martin Goodman had left Marvel in 1972, having sold the company in 1968, and launched this new company in June 1974 to go head-to-head with Marvel and DC Comics. He hired Lieber to be editor of the Atlas black-and-white comics-magazines, and additionally hired Warren Publishing veteran Jeff Rovin to edit the color comic-book line, which soon fell under Lieber's editorship.

As Lieber, in a 1999 interview, described his experience as editor:

"When I went there, Martin put out two kinds of books. He was putting out color comics, and he was also going to put out black-and-white comics like Warren and Marvel. Now, I knew nothing about black-and-white comics, right? My only experience was in the color comics. Jeff Rovin came from Warren, and he knew nothing about color comics. Martin unfortunately put Jeff in charge of all the color comics and put me in charge of the black-and-white books. It was an unfortunate thing, and basically what happened was that Jeff's books didn't turn out so well ... Martin had to pay high freelance rates, because otherwise nobody would work for a new and unproven company ... It didn't work out too well, and Jeff finally left angrily or something, and I had to take over all his books. At this point, business was bad, and I tried to do what I could. One of the things I had to do was to cut rates and tell people they were going to make less money, which was not an enviable position."

When Atlas went under in late 1975, Lieber received six months severance pay and spent time trying to devise a newspaper comic strip for syndication. Lee then offered him the editorship of Marvel UK, the New York City-based imprint that produced black-and-white reprint comics for the UK market, as well as new stories of the superhero Captain Britain. With co-scripter Gary Friedrich primarily, Lieber wrote the hero's seven-page lead feature in the weekly Captain Britain #24-37 (March 23 - June 22, 1977), and, with co-writer Jim Lawrence, Captain Britain adventures in Marvel UK's Super Spider-Man #233-246 (July 27-Oct. 26, 1977). Lieber also wrote and penciled two Spider-Man stories, in Web of Spider-Man #21 and 25 (Dec. 1986, April 1987).

Hulk and Spider-Man comic strips
In 1978, Lieber began penciling and sometimes inking the new daily and Sunday comic strip The Incredible Hulk, written by Lee and syndicated by the Register and Tribune Syndicate. He additionally began writing it in early 1979. Though he gave up the role of regular artist in Spring 1979 and the role of regular writer in mid-1982, he would still write and draw the occasional installment until the strip's end in September 1982. Lieber said Lee gave a rare compliment on the Hulk strip, telling his brother, "[I]t's very good. Also I think it's even more dramatic than [the] Spider-Man [comic strip]".

In 1980 and 1981, concurrent with the Hulk strip, Lieber contributed some degree of penciling on the daily and Sunday comic strip The Amazing Spider-Man until Fred Kida took over as regular penciler. Lieber then succeeded Kida on the daily strip in 1986. Lieber also penciled the Sunday page again from 1990 through at least 1995.

Lieber recalled in 2007,

"The Hulk was kind of popular on television, and so I drew The [Incredible] Hulk. Stan was writing it and after a while The Hulk wasn't doing well ... and Stan decided to give it up, or give up his part. He said, 'Larry if you want, you can write The Hulk and draw it'. So once again I was writing and drawing, and that I enjoyed even more than the Rawhide Kid. I made up stories that I really liked and it lasted a little while. After that, after the Hulk, Stan left. I think he went out to Hollywood or out to California and that's when Jim Shooter came in [as Marvel editor-in-chief] and took over. I didn't have any steady work then. I did a few inventory stories [in the comic books] or different things, until finally they needed somebody, an artist, on [the] Spider-Man [comic] strip, which Fred Kida had been doing until he retired. They tried somebody else and it didn't work out and they offered it to me and I started doing it and I've been doing it for 20 years now it'll be."

In a 2010 interview Lieber described how he collaborated with Lee on The Amazing Spider-Man strip: "I get a full script. I can make certain changes, if I wish, and all that, but it's a full script, which I welcome. ... I call him every week. I reduce the pencils and I fax them. I try to finish it, but sometimes I can't, so he just sees roughs, but that is good enough for him to get the idea if I captured the scene right. Then he goes over it, and usually he will change things in the writing, and sometimes in the artwork. When he has made corrections, I have fortunately agreed with it." He retired from pencilling the strip in July 2018. His final strip ran September 8, 2018.

Awards
Lieber was a recipient of the San Diego Comic-Con International's 2003 Inkpot Awards. In 2008, he was one of two recipients of that year's Bill Finger Award, which annually honors one living and one deceased comics creator. The award was presented July 25, 2008, during the 2008 Will Eisner Comic Industry Awards ceremony at Comic-Con International.

title: Larry Lieber


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Candar

Candar or Çandar may refer to:

 * Candar dynasty, a princely Anatolian dynasty
 * Candar corps, palace guards in some medieval Turkish states
 * Cendere, Nallıhan, historically known as Çandar, a village in Nallıhan district, Ankara Province, Turkey
 * Çandarlı family, a prominent Turkish political family in the Ottoman Empire, from the village
 * Çandarlı, a town and district of İzmir Province, Turkey, named after the family

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title: Candar


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User:AntonR~enwiki/Wish-list

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Anglo-Spanish War (1654–1660)

The Anglo-Spanish War was a conflict between the English Protectorate under Oliver Cromwell, and Spain, between 1654 and 1660. It was caused by commercial rivalry. Each side attacked the other's commercial and colonial interests in various ways such as privateering and naval expeditions. In 1655, an English amphibious expedition invaded Spanish territory in the Caribbean. In 1657, England formed an alliance with France, merging the Anglo-Spanish war with the larger Franco-Spanish War resulting in major land actions that took place in the Spanish Netherlands.

Although the war was terminated after The Restoration of King Charles II of England in 1660, tensions in the Caribbean kept the conflict going intermittently for over ten years. The war officially ended with two peace treaties which were signed at Madrid in 1667 and 1670.

Background
When the First Anglo-Dutch War came to an end, Cromwell turned his attention to the conflict between France and Spain, both traditional rivals of England. France and Spain were both of the Roman Catholic faith, anathema to Cromwell, who believed it is God's will that Protestantism should prevail in Europe. However, he considered Spain to be the greater threat to the Protestant cause, and thus pragmatically allied his nation with France. By going to war with Spain, he also sought a return to a policy of commercial opportunism pursued in the days of Elizabeth I and subsequently abandoned by her Stuart successors. Cromwell's attack on Spanish trade and treasure routes immediately recalled the exploits of Francis Drake and Walter Raleigh; and it is not by accident that printed accounts of their activities began to circulate in England at this time. There was, however, one important difference: alongside silver and gold a new treasure was becoming ever more important – sugar. This meant occupation of territory, a step beyond the piracy pursued in Elizabethan days.

During the first year of the Protectorate, Cromwell conducted negotiations with the French statesman Cardinal Mazarin, resulting in the drafting of an Anglo-French alliance against Spain in October 1655. The alliance had an added benefit: France, which was currently offering refuge to the Stuarts, would now be disinclined to assist them in reclaiming the English throne.

Western Design

Meanwhile, Cromwell had already launched the Western Design against Spain's colonies in the Spanish West Indies. The fleet left Portsmouth in late December 1654 and arrived in the West Indies in January. In May 1655, an English amphibious expedition led by General at Sea William Penn, father of the founder of Pennsylvania, and General Robert Venables invaded Spanish territory in the West Indies with the objective of capturing Hispaniola. It was one of the strongest ever to sail from England, with some 3,000 marines under the command of General Robert Venables, further reinforced in Barbados, Montserrat, and St. Kitts and Nevis.

Although Cromwell had previously been interested in the possible acquisition of Hispaniola island, the expedition's commanders were given the freedom to determine their own priorities in the circumstances they faced on arrival. Several options were considered, including a landing on the coast of Guatemala or on Cuba. Both were discounted, as Penn and Venables decided to attempt to repeat Drake's attack on Santo Domingo on Hispaniola. However, the 1655 Siege of Santo Domingo failed because the Spanish had improved their defences in the face of Dutch attacks earlier in the century. Cromwell, on the other hand, saw the Hispaniola defeat as God's judgement. Despite various subsequent successes, the defeat made the whole operation against the Spanish West Indies a general failure. Venables and Penn were imprisoned therefore in the Tower of London on their arrival on England.

Jamaica was the casus belli that resulted in the actual Anglo-Spanish War in 1655. Weakened by fever, the English force then sailed west for the Colony of Santiago (present-day Jamaica), the only Spanish West Indies island that did not have new defensive works. They landed in May 1655 at a place called Santiago de la Vega, now Spanish Town. They came, and they stayed, in the face of prolonged local resistance that was reinforced by troops sent from Spain and New Spain (México). In 1657 the English Governor invited the Buccaneers to base themselves at Port Royal on Santiago, to deter the Spanish from recapturing the island. For England, Jamaica was to be the "dagger pointed at the heart of the Spanish Empire", although in fact it was a possession of little value then. Cromwell, despite all difficulties, was determined that the presence should remain, sending reinforcements and supplies. New Spanish troops, sailing from Cuba, lost the Battle of Ocho Rios in 1657 and the Battle of Rio Nuevo in 1658, failing in their attempts to retake Jamaica. Nevertheless, the fear of another invasion meant that the English Governor of Jamaica Edward D'Oyley felt his new duty was to organize the defence of the island against the Spanish. By using the tactic of attacking instead of defending, he sent out Christopher Myngs to raid Spanish colonial cities and bases. Tolú and Santa Marta were among them in 1658 and the following year Cumana, Puerto Caballos and Coro were plundered and devastated and Myngs returned to Jamaica with a vast amount of plunder and treasure.

Naval war
In April 1656 English Admiral Robert Blake with a fleet of around forty warships, fireships and supply vessels sailed to blockade the Spanish port of Cadiz which continued throughout the summer. The Spanish remained on the defensive and took no aggressive action against the English fleet. In mid-June, Captain Edward Blagg sailed with eight ships to raid ports in northern Spain. On 24 June, Blagg raided Vigo, where a number of ships in the harbour were destroyed. While Blake replenished his water supplies on the African coast, a detachment of five frigates under a Captain Smith raided Malaga in southern Spain on 19 July. Smith sank nine Spanish ships, spiked the harbour guns and bombarded the town. A similar raid on Alicante was unsuccessful, but the threat of attack disrupted trade all along the coasts of Spain. On the evening of 8 September, one of Blake's captains, Richard Stayner, intercepted a Spanish treasure fleet and captured or sank all but two of its ships. The loss of the cargoes of the ships captured or sunk by the English was a serious blow to the economy of Spain with an estimated loss of £2,000,000. For the first time in naval history, Blake kept the fleet at sea throughout an entire winter in order to maintain the blockade against Spain.

In February 1657, Blake received intelligence that the plate fleet from New Spain was on its way across the Atlantic. Leaving two ships to watch Cadiz, Blake sailed from there to attack the plate fleet, which had docked at Santa Cruz on Tenerife in the Canary Islands to await an escort to Spain. In April in the Battle of Santa Cruz de Tenerife, Blake completely destroyed the Spanish merchant convoy—the West Indian Fleet—however, the fleet had landed the bullion before the battle. Blake was unable to seize it, but it was also unavailable to the government in Madrid.

The short-term effect of Blake's blockade of Spain and his victory at Santa Cruz was the disruption of the Spanish economy, which depended upon silver and gold from the Americas and thereby damaged Spain's capacity for waging war. The English lost 1,500 to 2,000 merchant ships to Spanish privateers and instead of using captured English ships to replace their destroyed convoys, the Spanish government placed the care of Spanish trade in the hands of neutral Dutch merchantmen.

Flanders
An Anglo-French alliance against Spain was established when the Treaty of Paris was signed in March 1657. Based on the terms of the treaty, the English would join with France in her continuing war against Spain in Flanders. France would contribute an army of 20,000 men, England would contribute both 6,000 troops and the English fleet in a campaign against the Flemish coastal fortresses of Gravelines, Dunkirk and Mardyck. It was agreed that Gravelines would be ceded to France, Dunkirk and Mardyck to England. Dunkirk, in particular, was on the Commonwealth's mind mainly because of the privateers that were causing damage to the mercantile fleet. For Cromwell and the Commonwealth, the question of possession of Dunkirk thus passed from regional diplomatic possibility to urgent political necessity.

The combined Anglo-French army for the invasion of Flanders was commanded by the great French Marshal Turenne. The Spanish Army of Flanders was commanded by Don Juan-José, an illegitimate son of the Spanish King Philip. The Spanish army of 15,000 troops was augmented by a force of 3,000 English Royalists—formed as the nucleus of potential army for the invasion of England by Charles II, with Charles's brother James, Duke of York, among its commanders.

The Commonwealth fleet blockaded Flemish ports but, to Cromwell's annoyance, the military campaign started late in the year and was subject to many delays. Marshal Turenne spent the summer of 1657 campaigning against the Spanish in Luxembourg and made no move to attack Flanders until September. Mardyck was captured on 22 September and garrisoned by Commonwealth troops. Dunkirk was besieged in May 1658. A Spanish relief force attempted to lift the siege but was defeated on 4 June at the Battle of the Dunes. The Commonwealth contingent in Turenne's army fought with distinction and impressed their French allies with a successful assault up a strongly defended sandhill 150 feet high during the battle. When Dunkirk surrendered to Turenne on 14 June, Cardinal Mazarin honoured the terms of the treaty with Cromwell and handed the port over to the Commonwealth, despite the protests of Louis XIV. The Commonwealth also honoured its obligations in respecting the rights of the Catholic populations of Mardyck and Dunkirk. A contingent of Commonwealth troops remained with Turenne's army and were instrumental in the capture of Gravelines and other Flemish towns by the French. With the privateering threat of Dunkirk out of the way, England's mercantile fleet suffered far fewer losses; not only because the Dunkirkers had lost their largest base but also because English trade had already been largely lost to the Dutch as a result of Dunkirker privateering.

Restoration
The war between France and Spain ended with the signing of the Peace of the Pyrenees on 28 October 1659. Cromwell's death in 1658 left England in political turmoil that would result in the return of the Stuarts to the throne of England. After the Restoration of Charles II, the Anglo-Spanish War was formally terminated in September 1660 but no treaty was signed between the two nations. Charles had been allied to Spain through the Treaty of Brussels.

Aftermath
England and Spain had both suffered heavy economic losses; the latter suffered mainly from Blake's blockade of Cadiz. The effect of this, particularly with the action off Cadiz and at Santa Cruz, was the disruption of the Spanish economy, which depended upon silver and gold from the Americas. This added to the difficulties of Philip's IV's overstretched armies, who for years had been campaigning simultaneously in Italy, the Pyrenees, Flanders and Portugal. The Spanish answered with a privateering campaign that all but wiped out English shipping trade. Consequently, the Dutch enjoyed a recovery from the losses they had suffered in the first Anglo-Dutch war and took much trade from the English. Nevertheless, with the victory of the first Anglo-Dutch war and the successes in the war against Spain, England had done enough to establish itself as one of Europe's leading naval powers.

Spain demanded the return of possessions taken by Cromwell's republic, to which Charles had been willing to agree. This soon changed however as Charles had become frustrated with Philip's failure to aid in his restoration. Only a week after war had ended Charles annulled the Brussels treaty and allowed English parliament to annex England's holdings (Jamaica, Dunkirk and Mardyck) despite Spanish protests. At the same time Charles sought a treaty with Spain so that England's holdings could be recognised but the terms for Spain were too harsh and there was hope that the latter would recapture Jamaica in a military campaign. In order to increase his finances Charles sold Dunkirk to Louis XIV of France in November 1662 – though less than £300,000 of the promised half million was ever paid.

Anglo-Portuguese alliance
In 1662, Charles made a dynastic marriage with Catharine of Braganza; Tangier and Bombay were ceded to the British Crown and a military alliance was agreed to help Portugal who had been fighting to regain her independence since 1640. British troops under Frederick Schomberg were raised to serve to help fight the Spanish. Within a year the Spanish army attempted to overrun Portugal but at the crucial battle of Ameixial the Portuguese and British inflicted a crushing defeat.

In 1664 England through Sir Richard Fanshawe sought to adjust a peace between the Portuguese and Spanish crowns and then between England and Spain but to no avail. At the Battle of Montes Claros a year later another Spanish invasion was decisively defeated so much so that it ended major combat operations during the war which definitively secured Portuguese independence from Spain.

Caribbean privateers
The war's Caribbean component raged on much longer. With Jamaica annexed the purpose of the Western Design (although failed in its primary objective of capturing the island of Hispaniola ) survived the Protectorate itself, later to be revived in the raids ordered under the behest of the Jamaican governor Thomas Modyford. Modyford's pretexts for licensing the buccaneers was his suspicion that Jamaica would never be secure until the Spanish government acknowledged England's possession of Jamaica and the Cayman Islands and having it named in a treaty. The resulting privateer raids on the Spanish Main over the next ten years were devastating. Christopher Myngs raided Santiago de Cuba in 1662 and Campeche the following year. Henry Morgan later took over - his most notable attacks were at Puerto del Príncipe and at Porto bello, both in 1668 and the defeat of a Spanish squadron on Lake Maracaibo the following year. The Spanish meanwhile could do little to protect themselves.

In response Mariana, the Queen Regent of Spain, issued letters of marque for privateer attacks on English shipping in the Caribbean. One of these privateers was the famed Portuguese pirate Manuel Ribeiro Pardal. Charles II ordered the same – so Modyford commissioned Morgan once again to raid the Spanish main in order to preserve Jamaica once and for all. In December 1670 Morgan seized the islands of Old Providence and Santa Catalina forcing the garrisons to surrender. From there his fleet sailed to Chagres and seized the fort there too – Morgan hoped to cross the Isthmus of Panama but at this time he was unaware of events in Europe.

Madrid treaties
Spain during this time was politically, economically and militarily weakened by the decades of war and infighting. Charles II saw ideal opportunities for two eventual peace treaties signed at Madrid, both of which were favourable to England. Firstly the 1667 treaty was received with great satisfaction by English statesmen and merchants in terms of trade. With Portugal's restoration secure the British Brigade was subsequently disbanded but England's holdings in the Caribbean were left unsettled. Nevertheless, it was a big step for peace between the two kingdoms.

Three years later at the next Madrid treaty, Spain finally ceded Jamaica and the Cayman Islands to Britain which was a major concession and a humiliation for Spain. English ships were also able to roam the Caribbean Sea without hindrance and for the first time were not seen in the West Indies as intruders or as pirates. Controversially the news did not arrive in time to prevent Henry Morgan's Panama expedition from plundering and burning Panama in 1671. Despite Spanish protests and his arrest, Morgan went unpunished claiming he had not known about the treaty.

England and Spain would be allies during the next large European conflict the War of the Grand Alliance and would remain largely at peace until 1702 with the outbreak of the Spanish Succession War.

title: Anglo-Spanish War (1654–1660)


text:
Bowen Hills railway station

Bowen Hills railway station is located on the North Coast line in Queensland, Australia. It serves the Brisbane suburb of Bowen Hills. North of the station, the Ferny Grove line branches off. The station is one of four inner city stations that form a core corridor through the centre of Brisbane.

History
There have been three railways stations named Bowen Hills. The first from 1882 to 1889 was near Campbell Street. In 1890, a new station opened at the south end of the Abbotsford Road tunnel. In 1971, to allow for the Mayne marshalling yards to be expanded, Bowen Hill and Mayne Junction stations were closed with a new Bowen Hills station opening in 1973.

As part of the quadruplication of the line from Roma Street station, Platforms 3 and 4 opened on 11 June 1996.

Accidents
In October 1904, Archibald Kerr, a 16-year-old boy, fell from a moving train near Bowen Hills station; the boy died from the injury to the back of his head caused by the fall. At the time, the train driver was not aware of the event until he was told about it by the signalman on the train's return journey at Brunswick Street station. The train gate was blamed as the cause of the accident at first, but after the gate was found to be in working order, the cause of the accident wasn't known.

Services
Bowen Hills station is served by Airport, Beenleigh, Caboolture, Doomben, Ferny Grove, Redcliffe Peninsula, Shorncliffe, Springfield and Sunshine Coast line services. Also see Inner City timetable It is adjacent to the Mayne Stabling Yards, with many services terminating here.

title: Bowen Hills railway station


text:
User talk:Joeclark

closed-caption query on Entertainment reference desk
FYI: Reference desk/Entertainment (permanent link). --Mathew5000 21:27, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Accessibility policy
The new Accessibility WikiProject is currently trying to convert the old WP:ACCESS guideline into an official policy (i.e. accessibility changes are not only recommended, but should be enforced in the Wikipedia). Maybe you want to participate in the discussion. Best regards, —surueña 20:26, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Merge discussion for Screenfont
An article that you have been involved in editing, Screenfont, has been proposed for a merge with another article. If you are interested in the merge discussion, please participate by going, and adding your comments on the discussion page. Thank you. Critterbane (talk) 00:44, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Screenfont

The article Screenfont has been proposed for deletion  because of the following concern:
 * This WP:NEOLOGISM isn't used in any reliable sources, and the article is little more than a WP:DICDEF.

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Pburka (talk) 02:37, 11 May 2012 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:49, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Joeclark


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ranjan Agarwal

Ranjan Agarwal was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was to delete.

See note for Jason Brent above. Note that page was previously nominated for deletion in July, and the consensus was to delete. Current article has a creation date of September. Bearcat 02:50, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete ; appears non-notable. Samaritan 06:30, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Abstain for now, waiting on further arguments/hopefully consensus on notability of world-ranked university debaters. Samaritan 21:31, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Strong keep. His competitive achievements make him far more notable than just the office of CUSID president. Not all presidents of CUSID are listed with their own entries, only those who were also competitive debaters of international note. Being one of the world's top debaters makes him notable to anyone researching debating and debaters, just like famous athletes. Fenster 10:15, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * comment: says nothing about him being one of the world's "top debaters".--Ianb 12:07, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * One of the top debaters in North America = one of the top in the world. "Agarwal was one of North America's top-ranked intervarsity debaters in the 1990s. He was named top speaker at the 2001 North American Debating Championship and also won the 1999 Canadian National Debating Championship." Fenster 13:08, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * so has he participated in any world debating contests? --Ianb 19:32, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * well, not withstanding that being first in North America places you among the top in the world, yes -- he was ranked 6th at the world debating championship. Fenster 19:39, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we can start a category for Sixth Place Finishers in global competitions? Sorry but this really isn't signficant enough to justify an encyclopedia article. Should we also have articles on the runnerups in World Scrabble Tournaments?AndyL 22:40, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * He's a national champion and best in North America. Perhaps we should delete all NCAA tournament winners because that's a US-only league as well? -- Fenster 22:59, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete: At present a perfect merge and redirect, but the article to which it should be merged does not exist yet, so I am left only with "delete," despite the worthiness of the figure. Geogre 16:11, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, non-notable, as above. Lord Bob 18:42, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. DCEdwards1966 04:34, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Academic Challenger 00:54, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Seems non-notable. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:04, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete non-notableAndyL 20:24, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: wrong side of the line. Wile E. Heresiarch 05:07, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
So Much Water So Close to Home

So Much Water So Close to Home is an album by Australian rock band Paul Kelly and the Messengers and was originally released in August 1989. The title comes from a short story of the same name by author Raymond Carver. Carver died in August 1988. Kelly co-wrote the score for the 2006 Australian film Jindabyne, which was also based on the same story. The entire album was recorded in the U.S. with producer Scott Litt, best known for his work with R.E.M. It was released on Mushroom/White Records in Australia & New Zealand and A&M Records for the rest of the world. The album peaked at #10 on the ARIA album charts, but none of its singles, "Sweet Guy", "Careless" and "Most Wanted Man in the World" had any Top 40 chart success. All tracks for the album were written by Kelly, who provided vocals, guitar and harmonica and also co-produced with Litt.

Background
Paul Kelly had formed Paul Kelly and the Coloured Girls in 1985, named for a group mentioned by Lou Reed in "Walk on the Wild Side". For international releases from 1987 on, they used the name Paul Kelly and the Messengers to avoid possible racist interpretations. They released Gossip in 1986 on Mushroom Records in Australia and in 1987 on A&M Records for international release. Under the Sun was released in 1987 in Australia and in 1988 internationally.

Their next album, So Much Water So Close to Home was released in 1989 as by Paul Kelly and the Messengers in all markets. It peaked at #10 on the ARIA album charts, but none of its singles reached the ARIA Top 40 Singles charts. The entire album was recorded in the U.S. with producer Scott Litt, best known for his work with R.E.M. Litt had re-mixed some of Paul Kelly and the Coloured Girls' tracks from Gossip for its US release as by Paul Kelly and the Messengers. So Much Water So Close to Home was released on Mushroom/White Records in Australia and A&M Records in the United States and Europe in 1989.

The title comes from a 1975 short story of the same name by author Raymond Carver (later collected in What We Talk About When We Talk About Love). Album track, "Everything's Turning to White" is based on Carver's short story, it describes the tale of recreational fishermen who find a dead woman's body but continue their trip for three days before reporting their discovery to police. Kelly would go on to co-write the score for the 2006 Australian film Jindabyne, which was also based on the same story. In 1991 Paul Kelly and the Messengers released their next album Comedy.

Track listing
All tracks written by Paul Kelly.

Side 1
 * 1) "You Can't Take It with You" – 2:43
 * 2) "Sweet Guy" – 3:38
 * 3) "Most Wanted Man in the World" – 3:38
 * 4) "I Had Forgotten You" – 2:59
 * 5) "She's a Melody (Stupid Song)" – 4:31
 * 6) "South of Germany" – 3:16

Side 2
 * 1) "Careless" – 2:57
 * 2) "Moon in the Bed" – 3:03
 * 3) "No You" – 4:19
 * 4) "Everything's Turning to White" – 4:11
 * 5) "Pigeon/Jundamurra" – 2:03
 * 6) "Cities of Texas" – 3:40

Personnel
Paul Kelly and the Messengers
 * Michael Barclay — drums, backing vocals
 * Peter Bull — keyboards
 * Steve Connolly — lead guitar
 * Paul Kelly — guitar, vocals, harmonica
 * Jon Schofield — bass guitar

Additional musicians
 * Steve Berlin — baritone saxophone (track 2)
 * Lenny Castro — congas (track 5)
 * Paulinho da Costa — percussion (tracks 5, 7, 8)
 * John Logan — harmonica (track 12)
 * Lucky Oceans — pedal steel guitar (track 6)

'''Recording details
 * Producer — Scott Litt, Paul Kelly
 * Engineer — Scott Litt
 * Assistant — Clif Norrell, Jim Dineen
 * Sequencer — David Russo (tracks 5, 9, 10)
 * Studio — Ocean Way Studios, Los Angeles
 * Mastered — Precision Lacquer
 * Mixed — The Grey Room

title: So Much Water So Close to Home


text:
Wikipedia talk:Requests for arbitration/Standing orders/Anthony

I think this goes without saying, but I'd like to add the following: "If at any time Anthony feels that this agreement is unduly restrictive of his ability to make clearly legitimate edits he may petition the arbitration committee as a whole to review the agreement and replace it or repeal it and rule on the original arbitration request." anthony (see warning) 00:56, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Yeah, that seems appropriate; this is, after all, effectively an Arbitration Committee ruling (a sui generis one, but...)#
 * Any objections?
 * Also, I'd be happier if the six-monthly review period was shortened to three months, though I'll accept the wording as it is...
 * James F. (talk) 01:19, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't particularly like the idea of the Arbcom "replacing" it (an agreement is supposed to be that - both parties are supposed to agree). However, I would agree to adding: "At any time, Anthony may withdraw from the agreement and go directly to arbitration" →Raul654 01:40, Jul 24, 2004 (UTC)

 * My initial proposal was three months. I'd still prefer that time time period.  That six was put in there was the main reason I wanted to be able to opt out somehow.  Raul's suggestion is actually more generous than what I asked for (I wasn't really sure about using "replace" either), so I agree to it.  Alternatively if we want to make a qualification, as there is only one situation where I would want to withdraw from the agreement, we could use the hybrid "If at any time Anthony feels that this agreement is unduly restrictive of his ability to make clearly legitimate edits he may withdraw from the agreement and go directly to arbitration." anthony (see warning) 01:49, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I have added that statement to the agreement. Is it acceptable to you now? →Raul654 02:30, Jul 24, 2004 (UTC)

Explanation
This page was listed on Requests for comment. I comment that it seems to be a fair proposal, and it's nice to see that those who are party to it can discuss it here. My only qualm is that not much context is provided. As an outsider, I am not quite clear on this proposal came about or where to find the discussion relating to it. I see the listing on Requests for arbitration as well as User:Raul654/Anthony evidence, but I don't know where this proposal came up.

Acegikmo1 07:15, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Raul
Basically, Anthony got a lot of people really pissed off at him (for, among other things, the reasons layed out in User:Raul654/Anthony evidence). It was going to the arbcom, and I think (emphasis - this is only my guess) the ruling they were going to hand down was going to be pretty harsh, given that this is the 2nd time they've had to make a ruling. I also suspect that Anthony was well aware of this too. He logged onto IRC, and here's a snippet of the convo:

 * [18:16]  anthony: you should consider that if everyone thinks you're being a fuckhead, it might be in the realms of possibilty
 * [18:16]  Anthony - at this point, I don't think anyone trusts you to reform yourself
 * [18:16]  This is the 2nd time it's had to go to the arbcom
 * [18:19] David: I am trying
 * [18:19] that's why I decided to voluntarily submit to the one revert rule
 * [18:19]  Anthony - as I said, most of us don't trust you to reform yourself
 * [18:20]  Which is why your word that you are going to voluntarily reform doesn't convience most of us
 * [18:20] but surely there is a way to force me to
 * [18:20]  Short of the arbcom?
 * [18:21] sure, I'm willing to agree to lots of things voluntarily
 * [18:21]  Like I said, if you agree not to edit anything except articles, article talk pages, or user pages, I think that would be acceptable
 * [18:21]  Your "trolling" actions occur in the Wikipedia, template, and image namespaces
 * [18:22] why not just give admins the power to block me for trolling, and let them determine if I'm trolling or not
 * [18:23]  Anthony - you want to give any admin unilateral discreation to ban you for trolling?
 * [18:23]  discretion*
 * [18:23] not to ban me but to block me for 24 hours
 * [18:23]  Hrmm...
 * [18:23] and, I don't really want it but I'd be willing to do it
 * [18:24]  That's worth considering

One thing led to another, and this is the proposal that was hammered out. I originally wrote it to be permanent, but User:Danny approached me privately to exress his objections to that part of it, so we put our heads together and came up with the idea of the mediation committee considering whether or not Anthony has reformed. →Raul654 08:07, Jul 25, 2004 (UTC)

Anthony
Well, I don't think the arbcom ruling would be any more harsh than this agreement. My concern, having been through arbitration before, was the amount of time I would have to spend sifting through edits to defend myself and the amount of hate and in some cases outright slander that would be done in my name. Take a look at Requests for arbitration/Anthony DiPierro. People have called me all sorts of things from a troll to mentally disturbed, and apparently the intention is to preserve this hate-fest for eternity. Rules against personal attacks tend to be lifted when dealing with arbitration.

In the wake of being blocked for 24 hours by User:Danny and no one reversing what I still consider a completely inappropriate block, I had considered leaving Wikipedia altogether. I then spoke with Jimbo via email, and like all the times I have conversed with him he brought a voice of reason to the situation. I still consider this his site, even though I guess technically it's more the site of the board, and Jimbo asked me not to engage in edit wars any longer. I agreed, and decided to impose upon myself a rule that I would not revert a page more than once in a single day. Raul still wanted me permanently banned from all pages except article pages and user talk pages. As I have no intention of engaging in edit wars I figure the compromise agreement is about the same, since any admin could easily revert any edits I made which they disagreed with anyway. If I have anything really important to say I can wait 24 hours to say it.

Still, this agreement requires me to trust that admins will act in good faith, at least the vast majority of them. I expect that borderline cases will be discussed on my talk page before going ahead and blocking me, and that any admins who block me for making edits which are clearly not disruptive in any way will eventually be admonished. Frankly, if these things aren't true, I don't want to be a member of this site anyway.

anthony (see warning) 14:44, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Actually, this would be rather a departure for the AC; we don't normally (or, at least, haven't yet) given such wide and sweeping powers to the sysop cabal (-)) over another user who we haven't seen fit to actually have banned (at which point, it's policy that's being harsh to the target and trusting of the, err, "upper caste".
 * James F. (talk) 15:37, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * The point is the admins already have this power. The AC doesn't have to give it to them.  I don't see the AC admonishing Danny for blocking me, or Raul for protecting the template in blatant violation of policy.  The RFC I started against Raul wasn't even certified by a single other user.  If admins can revert pages and protect them at whatever version ey wants, even blocking users who disagree with their point of view, then there's not very much advantage to my ability to edit at all.  The admins can do pretty much whatever they want already, so long as they come up with some half-assed justification for it, so I don't really see this as giving them much additional power at all.  anthony (see warning) 15:44, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Obviously we haven't censured Raul or Danny: we haven't accepted the case. However, commenting on and/or warning sysops that the AC feels have gone too far, even with the best intentions, is common, as a cursory glance at previous cases will show; please note that this should not be taken as a judgement on the actions of either Raul or Danny.
 * James F. (talk) 17:22, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * At the point where the arb committee starts holding admins to the policies they are supposed to be following I'll change my mind on the situation, maybe even back out of this agreement as I have permission to do at any time. anthony (see warning) 17:38, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Just for the record, if you do back out then agreement stipulates that your actions will go to arbitration. →Raul654 21:19, Jul 25, 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, I realize this. anthony (see warning) 20:56, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Why is there an arbitration committee requirement on this? Fine, if you want an extra bit of legitimacy for free, I'm happy to help, but I don't think you need it. I would suggest modifying banning policy to talk about "standing orders" aka "paroles" in the "Decision to ban" section, with a note that such parole agreements may be entered into voluntarilly. Makes sense to me, certainly. I'll drop a note on wikipedia talk:banning policy Martin 22:48, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

For the record
This agreement is now officially in force. →Raul654 00:47, Jul 30, 2004 (UTC)

Six month review
This agreement was meant to be reviewed after 6 months. Looking at Votes for undeletion, there have been some issues in the past six months. For example, Anthony listed two articles on VfU which had contained only the following content:
 * 1) "creator of supershadow.com. he is a star wars fanatic but he is a pathological liar."
 * 2) "...III is a child prodigy. She has many talents including acting, dancing, water rafting, sky diving, bungee jumping, skateboarding, aligator restling, singing, breathing, talking, and walking!"

I've removed the article titles since that would defeat the purpose of deleting them. These were a few months ago, but still since the start of the agreement. Are there any more recent examples that would suggest it would worthwhile keeping this agreement open.? Angela. 01:40, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)

 * I had to repeatedly block Anthony in December (as in, several times in the course of a few days), for revert warring on Clitoris in violtiong of both his promise and this agreement. →Raul654 03:12, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)

 * For a period in those six months, Anthony had a section of his userpage entitled "Users who have taken up campaigns against me," with uses who had left or been banned crossed off, checklist style. He particularly seemed to take pride in driving RickK off. is where he established the section.  is where he seems to boast about driving Rick off. Snowspinner 23:38, Jan 29, 2005 (UTC)

 * Anthony has just recieved a 24 hour block for repeated listing of Shawn Mikula on VfU as a history undelete, with the associated claim that this needed no vote. The article only qualifies as a history undelete because it is currently protected as a blank article against repeated vandalism. When this was pointed out to him, he cried admin abuse and let slip the dogs of war. Snowspinner 03:30, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)

 * That was a typically disingenuous explanation, Anthony, considering the history of this article. The article itself is a protected placeholder to pre-empt recreation and vandalism; under normal circumstances it would be deleted. You are well aware of this. Please read Snowspinner's comments directly above. Jayjg (talk) 16:04, 3 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Since when are admins permitted to create "protected placeholders?" anthony 警告 14:30, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Since when are admins forbidden to do anything not explicitly allowed? -- Cyrius|✎ 14:45, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Your question assumes untrue facts. anthony 警告 17:39, 4 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that this just about proves my point. Anthony has not changed in the least. He's just as offensive as ever, but he's not editing as much. →Raul654 03:39, Feb 5, 2005 (UTC)
 * He's now taken to recreating deleted articles in his userspace. I am seriously tempted to resubmit the case, because the standing order currently has a massive flaw, which is that it provides no guidance as to reversion of Anthony's trolling. The result is that I can block him every time he recreates a deleted article in his namespace, but I can't delete the pages. Snowspinner 15:35, Feb 7, 2005 (UTC)

I have a question: what is the appropriate page for the three members of the MC to vote on whether or not Anthony has reformed? Thanks, BCorr | Брайен 21:54, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll create it below →Raul654 22:07, Feb 10, 2005 (UTC):

Votes by Mediation Committee members

 * Angela: Keep standing order open for another 3 months.
 * Bcorr: Keep standing order open for another 3 months.
 * Cimon: Anthony has reformed to some degree. If a new agreement is reached which would stipulate a 3 month expiry period, with what ever other adjustments to the terms the parties find useful, and to which the Arbitration Committee accedes, I see no reason to object. Since the original agreement only provides for biannual evaluation, I am unable to vote for such a measure. Hence I vote the terms of the agreement to have been fulfilled, and recommend that further disputes with Anthony be taken directly to the Arbitration committee.

Arbitration
Now that the arb committee has taken me I suppose this standing order is no longer in effect? anthony 警告 16:49, 26 Feb 2005 (UTC)


text:
Template talk:Analgesics

Take a look
I am seeing this table wrongly placed, I dunno if this is the right place, but someone should take a look and fix it

Change to pipelines?
Instead of {Link} {Link2}, do Link | Link2? It seems to be the de facto standard. Other templates that do braces: Template:NSAIDs, Template:Opioids, and probably others.

Tetrahydrocannabinol
Why is Tetrahydrocannabinol listed here? The linked-to article does not mention analgesic properties. --Macrakis 16:26, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I put it there a year ago. Cannabis was once commonly used as an analgesic (for example Queen Victoria used it for menstrual pain), and cannabinoids are now approved in Canada for controlling pain in multiple sclerosis. It has also been recommended for fibromyalgia. I have now edited the tetrahydrocannabinol article to mention the analgesic effect. See also the articles medical cannabis and cannabinoids. EricK 07:54, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Merge Template:Opioids here?
I just left a comment on the Template:Opioids talk page, and wanted to echo it here. I think it should be merged into this template. Template:Opioids doesn't seem to be used much (anymore?) and is less complete than the list of opioids here anyway. --Galaxiaad 00:31, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

Too many opioids listed
There's a ton of opioids listed here that shouldn't. Half these aren't used medically and some might be duplicates. The list should be limited to opioids used medically or recreationally. Loperamide is not even an opioid (only a derivative of one). I'll go through them in a few days and remove anything that doesn't belong. 1.1.1 21:07, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Should tilidine be listed?
Tilidine isn't much used in english speaking countries (save for Australia and South Africa, perhaps), but e.g. in Germany and other european lands, it is used very often, more so than e.g. oxycodone. Objections against listing tilidine in this template..?--84.163.91.195 (talk) 04:56, 12 April 2008 (UTC)
 * None? Okay, I'm listing tilidine here.--84.163.115.149 (talk) 00:44, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Changed a joke?
For whatever reason in the upper opiates section there was a "TheBaconedgar" listed. It links to Dihydrocodeineone. That was not on the list, so I corrected the name. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mechem (talk • contribs) 13:39, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 October 2021
- add Oliceridine to Opioids > Synthetic sub-category - add Leconotide to Ion channel modulators > Calcium blockers sub-category 136.158.32.149 (talk) 23:44, 15 October 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Shellwood (talk) 23:47, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Analgesics


text:
Talk:Johnnie Walker

Wrong information about black label
it was stated that black label is 80 proof in the USA and 70 proof globally. This is very confusing it makes it sound like it is bottled at different strengths in different markets. however It is sold at 40% abv all over the world. Historically british proof was 1.75x ABV and american proof was 2x ABV. However the UK no longer uses 'proof' I am british and I have never heard the word proof used apart from american sources. Therefore as the UK stopped using the concept of proof many decades ago and america is the only country to use proof I have removed any reference to it being '70' proof which will just confuse people who may think it is sometimes sold at 35% abv which would of course be less than the 40% strength that the EU states is the minimum for any product to be called a whisky.

Thebar.com
In addition to the official Johnnie Walker site, Diageo also has a website that they've designed as a extra resource for their brands. It is www.thebar.com- I think this link would be useful to add to the page. Any thoughts?

PR
Was the "Blends" listing written by Walker's PR department? Sure reads like it was… — 193.5.56.40 10:28, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Pregnancies
I don't believe that bogus statistic about 2/11 pregnancies in Europe. Probably JohnCrawford's idea of humor, but perhaps it should go? — 68.163.10.220 23 July 2004 (UTC)

 * Obviously no such statistic, so removed! — 80.5.160.5 15 September 2004 (UTC)

Whiskey brand
what the heck is a whisky brand entry mixed with a biography? shouldnt there be a disambiguation page or something? —12.42.51.28 12 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I fixed that. -R. fiend 19:29, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

"Oldest & Finest"
I have a bottle of Johnnie Walker in my cupboard… it was bought by my father some years back. It has a blue label, but no blue label written on it… the label says "Johnnie Walker Oldest & Finest blend of whiskies". What is it ?? I did some research but found nothing. Someone please help —202.71.138.35 22 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I think that should probably be added, see http://www.whiskey-galore.co.uk/johnniewalker.htm. Also someone on eBay that has a bottle for sale says: "The Johnnie Walker OLDEST was a very limited release during the late 1980s and is not available anymore. This bottling was released prior to the JW Blue." MDuchek 02:41, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

Red Label is aged 5 years?
I though red label was aged 8 years, not 5, as said in the article. Is it really aged 5 years? —200.180.76.155 14 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I removed that until someone comes up with a good source. Aging blends is never as straightforward as aging single malts, as they are a blend of whiskies of different ages. I believe they have to ues the youngest when giving a number, which is why blends usually don't state an age, unlike single malts. -R. fiend 16:56, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

I also notice that the article now states that Green Label contains Talisker and Cragganmore, and that it is 15 years old. This seems contradictory, as Talisker and Cragganmore are only 10 and 12 years old, respectively. Am I missing something? -R. fiend 20:00, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 * What you are missing, is the distinction between standard distillery editions of Talisker 10yo single malt and Cragganmore 12yo single malt on the one hand, and on the other, individual casks that the distilleries sell to blenders.

 * Talisker 10yo and Cragganmore 12 yo are the so called "single malts", but the distilleries sell off individual casks of other ages to blenders. These casks can be older or younger, whatever the blenders need. The age statement is only to indicate the age of the youngest whisky that was used in a whisky. So either there are only 15yo (or older) casks in there, or the whisky was younger when blended, but matured - as a blend - until 15yo.

 * So, for Johnnie Walker Green Label, other casks are used. Thus, a blended whisky can be older or younger than the standard 10yo Talisker or the 12yo Cragganmore. I hope I've made things clearer. - Galwaygirl 22:03, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Interesting. I wasn't aware (and am a bit surprised) that the distilleries age their whiskies longer for the blends, when the more mature taste the extra years bring will be diluted with a bunch of other whiskies. But I guess that's what the blenders are willing to pay for in order to put a specific age on their bottles. Also, I was unaware that blends are aged as blends. I was under the impression they always went from blending straight to bottling. -R. fiend 19:11, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Older does not mean better. Many fine single-malts are in the 10-12 year-old range.  Much of the time, aging beyond 18-years in oak casks imparts way too much wood flavor into the whisky.  Something like Black Label with a 12-year age statement is comprised of malt and grain whiskies that have all been matured for 12 years individually before bottling. -Ceugene (talk) 13:56, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Johnnie Walker USA Availability
I have read through the history of Johnnie Walker many times from several sources. I can find when Johnnie Walker became locally available in 1820 and even when the marketing kicked in for the Striding Man and Red Label and Black Label were avaiable in 1909. My question is, when did the different labels become available in the United States? The history implies that Johnnie Walker Blue was available in Britian in the late 1800's, but I can not believe it was being exported at the time. Furthermore, I have no sense of time about Johnnie Walker Gold or Pure. —Blacstag 11:42, 1 January 2006 (UTC)

 * The table I created should help there. Diago claims that Blue is a reproduction of John Walker's original blend, but that seems to be marketing spin, as outside sources all pretty much agree that Johnnie Walker Black Label is still today Alexander’s original blend, and John Walker did not blend scotch (it was not legal until after he died).  Now John Walker could have vatted malt whisky, but I have not found any evidence of this.  One could argue that Blue is the high-end blend Alexander would have made if the flood had not destroyed their old stock. —MJBurrage 14:29, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 * To clarify. Blending is mixing malt and grain whisky.  Vatting is mixing only malt whiskies.

question re Johnnie Walker's personal history
When was Johnnie Walker born?69.85.170.16 18:40, 10 May 2006 (UTC)
 * See John Walker (grocer) MrZaius  talk  03:57, 28 February 2007 (UTC)

time table
What is the reasoning for putting the table in reverse chronological order? It seems unnecessary and bizarre. Vicarious 02:04, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

 * No strong reason, when I created the table, it made more sense to start with the current blends next to the axis, and so the older availability ended up flowing to the right. Feel free to reverse it if you want. —MJBurrage 04:33, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Swing available in US
I purchased a 750ml bottle of JW Swing today for about $65. The owner said it is a recient re-release in the States.

I want to also note the abocve is probably true. I know they were set re-released it in the US recently and was supposted to be between $60-and $70 according to an article I read recently.

I think the Swing bottle is intended for the "duty-free" shopping market with an artificial limited availability cachet. It is supposed to reflect "the 'golden age' of travel in the twenties and thirties when luxury liners carried high society passengers around the world".

In popular culture section
Several of the tidbits in the section seem hardly noteworthy. I wonder: should these be edited for significance? Or are we planning to provide an exhaustive list of when JW is mentioned? --SidP 04:33, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I think just about all of them should be removed. This "so-and-so was mentioned/seen in this movie and this TV show etc." trend is a plague on wikipedia. It's all over the place. Should be nipped in the bud. In cases where the item in question (in this case JW, but same goes for all such entries) actually plays an important role in the work of fiction (and in this case none leap to mind) they deserve mention, but who gives a shit that Angelina Jolie was drinking it in Mr. and Mrs. Smith? It's irrelevant to the movie and to the product, and looks appallingly amateurish. I'll wait for any further comments before removing them. -R. fiend 23:09, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Wasn't Sid james famous for having a contract with johnnie walker and then trying to display its bottles in every carry on film that he was in? I think this is more relevant than "so & so was mentioned in movie ".. as this is an actor trying to self promote a brand? Source not sure but UK Sunday Times a few years (~10) ago springs to mind —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.110.235.3 (talk) 05:34, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

 * In Carry On Again Doctor, Sid James plays Gladstone Screwer, a medical orderly in a godforsaken tropical health clinic whose activities consist of drinking and having sex with the native women. At one point he opens a cupboard containing hundreds of clearly identifiable Johnnie Walker bottles. At that time (1969) JW was still a major whisky brand in the UK. --80.176.142.11 (talk) 15:06, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I recently watched all six seasons of 30 Rock and I'm very sure Jack Donaghy drinks Blue Label, not Black as stated in the article. 87.172.184.43 (talk) 18:15, 5 August 2012 (UTC)

"The Letter than Johnny Walker Read". Asleep at the Wheel. Album - "Texas Gold" Capital Records - ST-11441 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jpipersson (talk • contribs) 15:24, 27 March 2020 (UTC)

It's strange how some of the entries in this section have citation needed and some don't while not being any more noteworthy but if you wanted the citation for Skynyrd's "Poison Whiskey" it's here: http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/Poison-Whisky-lyrics-Lynyrd-Skynyrd/BD2A3CAB4584E7A7482569EB0016C3A2 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.9.45 (talk) 10:23, 10 January 2013 (UTC)

Trivia
Is this section just managed arbitrarily? What exactly is the criteria for what belongs there? Jordinho 02:48, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Significance. -R. fiend 02:59, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Clynelish
The article states that Clynelish malt is very rare (in the section on Gold label). I have a bottle of the 14 and I know that it is pretty common. I'm just wondering if this is referring to another Clynelish single malt, or perhaps some rare casking or something? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.243.177.254 (talk) 17:38, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Proof listed in infobox
It doesn't seem appropriate to list the proof of Johnnie Walker in the infobox for two reasons:

1) It is inaccurate; Johnnie Walker Green Label is 86 proof.

2) This isn't information that pertains to the brand. Rather, it pertains to the specific product, and should be listed in the page for that product if one exists.

"Proof" should be removed from the infobox.

Esilverberg (talk) 05:45, 29 August 2008 (UTC)

Craig Kilbourn's final show?
On Craig Kilbourn's final episode hosting CBS's the Late Late Show, he had a bottle of scotch and had a glass from it. He'd mentioned having scotch on the final show in the earlier weeks, and mentioned a brand, but I forget what it was. The brand wound up sending him a $2000+ bottle, probably for mentioning its name on the show. Does anybody remember the brand? Was it JW? It would be fun to mention in the popular culture section. --24.21.148.155 (talk) 04:25, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

JW is an export brand
JW has been a Diageo export brand for many years, possibly dating back to the formation of United Distillers in 1987. It is not actively marketed in the UK (including Scotland, obviously) where the mass market Diageo blended whisky brand is Bell's. Diageo is actually not dominant in the UK Scotch whisky market, though it is a major player. Maybe some reference should be made to this in the article? --80.176.142.11 (talk) 16:15, 12 February 2009 (UTC)
 * JW began to be actively marketed in the UK in 2013, and a major advertising campaign is underway in the runup to Christmas 2013. --Ef80 (talk) 01:56, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * If it is true that the brand has primarily been an export brand and is not especially prevalent in the UK, that seems like an important fact that should be included in the article. I don't notice any current mention of that. Are there some reliable sources we can cite? Some statistics about the brand's market share in the Scotch whisky market segment within the UK and outside the UK (and in Scotland in particular) would also be nice to have, and could be used to support such a statement. —BarrelProof (talk) 18:45, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * It's a bit late now. JW was an export brand over the last twenty years, and was only seen in the UK when people bought it in airport duty free shops. However, there seems to have been a change of corporate policy in 2013 and all the major supermarkets are now stocking Red Label. There has also been a TV advertising campaign. It isn't clear what has prompted this repositioning, but if anybody has suitably referenced info about it, it would make an interesting addition to the article. --Ef80 (talk) 13:31, 10 December 2013 (UTC)
 * It's never too late to include some words about the strange history of marketing strategy and availability of Johnnie Walker. I was missing that information in the article as well. And see also Johnny Walker's domestic counterweight Bell's whisky, and a comment I made on the strange relation of the two which should also be mentioned if someone can put up the obligatory sources. --BjKa (talk) 13:15, 8 January 2014 (UTC)
 * It is now clear that Diageo have re-introduced JW to the UK as a premium blended whisky, priced above Bell's and The Famous Grouse but below the mass market single malt brands like Laphroaig. I still don't have any refs though. --Ef80 (talk) 20:46, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Churchill
The Manchester reference states, "Remaining within reach are the jam and a weak (three-ounce) scotch and soda -- always Johnny [sic] Walker Red -- which the prostrate Winston will sip over the next four hours in the tradition of Palmerston, Pitt, and Baldwin."

(Manchester goes on to deny that Churchill was a heavy drinker, but citing Pitt in that context is not such a good idea.) --Andersonblog (talk) 14:54, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

The Man Who Walked Around The World
It doesn't have a real relevance to the article, which is why I'm posting it here, but this commercial was sent to me and I thought it was very interesting. It's a very well done long take narrative of the history of the whisky. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mikekearn (talk • contribs) 17:10, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Kilmarnick
I have a square bottle of Walker's Kilmarnick dated 1851 - so the info. in the Wiki page about the tiem of creation of a square bottle is not accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.164.200.203 (talk) 21:04, 16 January 2010 (UTC)

 * The date on many brands is the date the brand was first sold, not the date of the bottle itself. If the bottle actually says it was bottled in 1851, that would be different. —MJBurrage(T•C) 14:08, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

Johnnie Walker Green malts
Johnnie Walker Green is actually not made up of just four malt whiskies, but many more. The four that JW/Diageo have advertised are Cragganmore, Linkwood, Talisker and Caol Ila. -Ceugene (talk) 13:59, 17 December 2010 (UTC)

Illustrations
The second picture is captioned "Black Label, standard US edition in 750mL Bottle," but, unless my monitor has some heretofore unheard-of specific issue, the label is blue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Altgeld (talk • contribs) 22:59, 27 December 2010 (UTC)

Celebrating or Agitating?
Is "widespread media attention and celebration from..." correct? The rest of the sentence reads like the groups were agitating against the decision, not celebrating it. 192.31.106.35 (talk) 00:39, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

what means number back the label?
00:12 04 11,L1249T5000,    19995796,where is "Bottling date"? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 222.95.201.236 (talk) 14:37, 7 May 2012 (UTC)

Nixon and Blue
It states that "Notable Blue Label aficionados include the late U.S. President Richard Nixon, who mixed it with Dry Ginger Ale and a slice of lemon" (with no citation), and normally that would be a-ok with me, but then the chart says Blue was only introduced in 1992...so it seems to be a slight conflict, unless Nixon only developed a taste for blue in the last few years of his life. Regardless, maybe a citation would solve it all. Cheers. --Percival2436 (talk) 20:54, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Jarring discrepancy
Table of least to most expensive omits platinum label, even though bullet points above mention it. It's just a jarring omission. 06:04, 9 December 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Randal Oulton (talk • contribs)

Island Green
In 2016, they released a new "Island Green" line that's apparently only available in duty-free shops. Jason Quinn (talk) 14:45, 29 October 2016 (UTC) Only in SE Asia.Moitranaak

Peacock terms and excessive level of detail
I've restored the 'peacock' words tag I previously added to the 'Blends' section. This still contains an unacceptable amount of non-neutral language and PR-style buzzwords. These words include "distinctive" "hint" "rolled-out" "surprisingly" "revamp" etc. Article's should be written in a formal tone, and avoid editorializing language. If this article were edited down to an appropriate length, so it did not read like a product catalog, these problems would likely disappear. Grayfell (talk) 22:14, 13 December 2017 (UTC)
 * It wasn't just the blends section. It was the whole friggin' article! This thing read like a load of promotional puffery mixed with a personal essay full of editorializing and useless trivia. This is simply unacceptable in any fashion, per, oh, evaery bit of WP:NPOV. The attempt to list every special bottling, which was the absolute worst offender, as it was utter fanboy trivia (if scotch whisky brands can be said to have fanboys) coupled with editorializing of the higher order. I have done a massive series NPOV cleanup edits here. I don't really have time to check the validity of the references, however, and I fear there are some that simply fail WP:RS or are misrepresented. oknazevad (talk) 00:49, 29 December 2017 (UTC)

 * Thanks for doing that, it looks much, much better. The tag wasn't an endorsement of the rest of the article, it was just the most obvious starting point. Grayfell (talk) 00:19, 3 January 2018 (UTC)

Cultural figures
There are a number of inconsistencies under this heading. “Winston Churchill's favourite whisky was Johnnie Walker Red Label, which he mixed with water and drank throughout the day.” Actually, Churchill was fond of both the Red & Black Label brands. I, for one, consider that the man is not contemporary and celebs need to be looked at in this light, which, as I understand, is Wikipedia’s aim. Do allow me to digress for a moment. If those who read these lines plan to visit India, or know of relatives/friends who do, please advise them not to talk about this man in public. In genteel society you will be shunned. Elsewhere, you will be stunned. Jason Debly, says “…the ringing endorsement I always get a kick out of was from Christopher Hitchens: "The best blended Scotch in the history of the world - which was also the favourite drink of the Iraqi Baath Party, as it still is of the Palestinian Authority and the Libyan dictatorship and large branches of the Saudi Arabian royal family - is Johnnie Walker Black." If the Iraqi Baath Party, the Palestinian Authority and the Libyan dictatorship are relics of the past, why not quote just the Saudi Arabian royal family? And isn’t Mr Hitchens of no relevance today? What is Vanity Fair? An American magazine read by less than 0.01% of our global population? “Johnnie Walker Blue Label was a favourite of the late US president Richard Nixon's; Nixon used to enjoy it with ginger ale and a wedge of lime.”. He too is history. This is a global platform; do look beyond the horizon for celebs. There are plenty in this overpopulated world. A number of singers and songwriters have referenced Johnnie Walker in their works, from Amanda Marshall to ZZ Top. Elliott Smith's Oscar-nominated "Miss Misery" has the narrator "[making] it through the day with some help from Johnnie Walker Red." Heavy metal band Black Label Society was named after Johnnie Walker Black Label whisky, as Zakk Wylde was very fond of the drink. Polish fictional humorous character Jakub Wędrowycz is a word play based on Polish translation of "Johny Walker". That’s fine. An Indian comedian, Badruddin Kazi (11 November 1926 – 29 July 2003), took up the stage name Johnny Walker. Once a household name, he is now a relic. Gen Eisenhower liked Black Label too. Isn’t he of Churchill’s era, and more famous? .
 * Moitranaak ([|Moitraanak talk]talk) 18:11, 11 August 2019 (UTC)

Ad
This reads like an ad, using language like 'best' etc. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.113.161.186 (talk) 15:42, 27 September 2019 (UTC)
 * The only uses of the word "best" in the article are either as part of the phrase "best-selling", which is an objective statement of fact, or as part of an award's name, also a statement of fact that the whisky was awarded that recognition. Neither are cases of the article promoting the product. oknazevad (talk) 18:09, 27 September 2019 (UTC)

GoT JW
, hello. "Diageo had earlier released a collection of Game of Thrones-inspired single malt whiskies." means earlier than the release of JW WW, right? Per source, WW came in October ("out Monday"), and the houses would come in November. This source disagrees on November, but agree that WW came first. It may be more correct since it was written after the fact. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 07:27, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think I was confusing myself with the date of the final season's air date. I don't think we need to include the exact release date here anyway, as it's trivial detail. I'll make adjustments. (Honestly, I don't know if we need to mention the house-themed whiskies at all since they're not Johnnie Walker labeled products, but if we take them out they're likely to be re-added anyway.) oknazevad (talk) 11:10, 1 February 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, per the Diageo+GoT+whisky connection I think it's reasonable to mention them. Anyway, added 2 more GoT-JW. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:34, 2 February 2020 (UTC)

feels very promotional
I suspect there's some paid editing here. I haven't read the whole thing but just from the lead the article seems to need some editing to neutralize tone. —valereee (talk) 22:44, 11 May 2021 (UTC)
 * It used to be a lot worse. One editor that frankly cannot write English did a hack job of an expansion some time back. That said, I completely disagree that the lead reads promotionally. It's a plain fact that this is the world's best selling whisky brand, and supporting that with the numbers is just good writing. If anything, the lead is too short as it doesn't sufficiently summarize the article. oknazevad (talk) 02:10, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Platinum and Aged 18 Years are NOT the same whiskey.
Not calling out the OP since he cited a(n inaccurate) source. I've tasted these side by side and they are VERY different. I like the platinum much better. At the price, I don't by the A18y. 2600:1700:8550:F70:60E3:7DA1:D939:D261 (talk) 23:18, 5 March 2023 (UTC)

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