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Talk:Ceiling fan

Ceiling fans are Hocus Pocus
There's nothing to back up scientifically any claims. People who claim they know what a ceiling fan is doing because of the Laws of Physics are really talking nonsense. What is really going on is probably more complicated than a simple schoolboys explaination that Hot air rises. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.172.215.127 (talk) 13:45, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

 * You make a convincing argument, can we add this to the truth page? Formerlychucks (talk) 14:08, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

Technical Information
There should be some more additional technical information about a Ceiling Fan, for Example:-

1. How the ceiling fan works? 2. What is the function of Armature and Capacitor in a Fan? 3. What is the difference between a capacitor fan and a non-capacior fan? 4. Why a capacitor is necessary for a capacitor type fan? 5. How a non-capacitor fan works without a capacitor?

Mujeeb Ahmed, Karachi-Pakistan.

 * Seems to me that these items (excepting number 1) are more appropriate in the article on Electric Motor than here. Number 1 should essentially be a link to Electric Motor.  -- Jon Wilson 24.162.120.52 06:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Besides, the article has been totally blanked and re-written in the intervening months. Thanks. Piercetheorganist 03:33, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Page Blanking
This talk page has been blanked since the article has been completely rewritten.

Piercetheorganist 12:13, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Talk pages should not be blanked, they should be archived WP:archive. Wikipedia is an organization that thrives on debate and discussion, the disscussion helps people evaluate what has happened with an article and what needs to be worked on. So even if the article has been completely rewritten, the content in the talk page should remain.  If you feel that a question is no longer valid you may add to the record of the discussion explaining why its no longer valid.  Pretty much the only time when things get deleted from talk is if they contain personal attacks, or if the are blatant vandalism. Idioma 00:21, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, point taken. I'll use WP:archive in the future. Thanks. Piercetheorganist 03:34, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Citations need tag
Thank you for taking the time to edit the ceiling fan article.

Upon careful review, it is evident that all statements are properly sourced using The Fan Book (ISBN 0-8359-1855-6).

The tag you added has been removed. Thank you for your interest.

Piercetheorganist 01:05, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The section I marked has a lack of inline citations. I marked the entire section because it has no inline citations.  Without inline citations it is not possible to tell where information came from.  Yes there is a references section at the bottom, but unfortunately it is not possible to tell which information came from that resource unless inline citation is used WP:REF.  I will go through the article and mark the article with "" at specific points that need citation so you can get a clearer idea of what is needed.  I see you have put a lot of good work into this article. Idioma 00:21, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * And once again, I removed them. All the data you cited comes from the source listed--The Fan Book. One resource was used (it happens to be the only book ever written solely about ceiling fans); it is cited at the bottom of the article; and so there is no need to add an in-line citation at the end of every sentence. There is no confusion to be had--all the data comes from one source. If multiple sources were listed, then it would make sense to add citation tags. But that's not the case. If you won't be able to sleep soundly until there are useless idiotic tags in place, feel free to add a tag to the sole source at the end of every sentence in that section. Piercetheorganist 03:30, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Also, your edit wherein you "cleaned up" the language was actually not helpful. The capitalization, punctuation, spelling, grammar, and other mechanics is all technical detail which belongs as-written. And yes, it all comes from the wonderful cited source. Besides, I've got rank on you here--I restore/repair ceiling fans for a living, in addition to the fact that I'm a collector and very well-versed in ceiling fan history. One edit in particular comes to mind, "removing POV" from the picture caption under the Casablanca Delta. Describing a 4-blade GE-vent fan as "generic" is completely accurate and is not a POV statement. That style, which is defined by its long-expired patents, was used nearly unilaterally in all mass-produced contractor/builder ceiling fans in the 1980s. It not being a debate of any nature, there is no POV to be had. The dictionary definition of "generic" completely and unquestionably applies to that defined style. Thanks. Piercetheorganist 03:30, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no rank in wikipedia. This is collective editing; anyone can edit wikipedia.  Please read WP:REF especially the part about inline citations.  Since you are an expert in this you must be especially careful to use inline citations to guard against original research WP:OR.  Cleaning up language can include cleaning up style, which is a useful edit.  I cannot assume that there is only one source in this article because in order for an article to meet WP:NOTABILITY standards, an article should have multiple independent sources.  As people edit this article (it belongs to the collective wikipedia community who are free to edit it) there will be other sources added. Since wikipedia can be edit by anyone, in order for wikipedia to have credibility using the correct inline method of citing sources is essential.  People are free to look at any claim in an article and add Fact unless it already has inline citation. I certainly appreciate the contributions you have made to this article. Idioma 04:01, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, I will be happy to add inline citations to the source, useless as it is. As far as other sources go, there aren't any. "The Fan Book" is the one and only book written solely about ceiling fans; and there are no other books in the Library of Congress database which even have a section on ceiling fan history, evolution, or anything like that. Unfortunately, it's kind of a specialized subject area. So, everything in this article came from The Fan Book, and is verified by common knowledge (or, more accurately, knowledge that's common in the ceiling fan community). Having said that, IF you or anyone else can find another source, PLEASE list it here. I've searched high and low, and even gone so far as to contact PR reps at Emerson, Hunter, and Casablanca, and there is apparently no further information available (other than companies' personal history, which is relevant to an article about that company but is not relevant to ceiling fans in general). Thanks Piercetheorganist 00:02, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I'm a bit confused by this statement "The capitalization, punctuation, spelling, grammar, and other mechanics is all technical detail which belongs as-written. And yes, it all comes from the wonderful cited source." It seems to say that the grammar and spelling came directly from another source.  Please clarify. Idioma 04:17, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, the grammar/mechanical structure came from an external source (the cited source). For example, you changed "The Diehl Electric Fan" to the Diehl electric fan. It is incorrect the way you've re-written it (so, once again, I reverted that change). Diehl was a brand; they made many electric fans; but that first model was named "The Diehl Electric Fan", capitalized in that way. This comes from the cited source. Since it is a proper model name, it must be formatted in the accurate way. Thanks. Piercetheorganist 00:02, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the clarification. Idioma 00:27, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Citations added. Piercetheorganist 09:03, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Is the material in the Ceiling_fan section sourced from the same book? MrVibrating (talk) 15:36, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

Hugger or Snugger fans
A section outlining the advantages and disadvantages of snugger fans would be appropriate. Idioma 00:54, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * FYI, "Snugger" is a trademark; it's Emerson's name for their hugger-style fan. Personally, I disagree that a separate section needs to be added. Hugger fans are no different from any other ceiling fan in any way, except for the fact that they don't have a downrod--something which is entirely unrelated to the fan's operation. The motor, blades, etc. is no different. Refer to the section "Bases for Comparison", subsection "Height of the fan relative to the ceiling", for more info on huggers if you're interested. That section details their sole disadvantage; it is appropriate for it to be in that section since it is not a problem unique to huggers (though all huggers have it). The sole advantage of a hugger is that it saves space--something which is such blatantly obvious common sense that it doesn't belong in an encyclopedia article (any more than the statement "water is wet" belongs in the article on water). Basically my point is that huggers are no different from ordinary fans, and so don't deserve their own section any more than each decor-themed fan at Home Depot deserves its own section. Piercetheorganist 03:30, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks, good info. There are fans that appear to be different from ordinary fans that are huggers, such as the Concept II among others, it could use a subsection in the style section. Idioma 04:10, 19 June 2007 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. Minka Aire's "Concept II" model is no different from any ordinary hugger ceiling fan. Same motor, same blades, same mounting method. It deserves its own section no more than fans of different colors deserve their own section. Thanks. Piercetheorganist 00:02, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * FASCO also used "Snugger" as model name, so it's not just Emerson. — Preceding unsigned comment added by The Channel of Random (talk • contribs) 03:15, 9 February 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes it does have the same type of motor, but from what I read, the blades are not flat, and it doesn't have a down tube.  I think that a good number of people who buy fans would define style as visual rather than technical.  While not all hugger fans are visually different they lack the down tube and some lack ceiling medallion.  I believe that they are both visually and slightly functionally different, even they use the same motors. Idioma 00:49, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Again: you're wrong, they are not functionally different. They employ hub-mounted rotating paddles to circulate air, and their motor (which is not unique to them) is already covered comprehensively in the article. The differences between different types of fans are defined by technical aspects, not style; that's a rock-solid fact, not up for debate. This article is written to educate the uneducated about ceiling fans and their history. It's not a comparison of aesthetic styles...and the only difference between a hugger fan and a non-hugger fan is the aesthetic styling. Any other differences (say, some special blade offered on a hugger) are not inherently unique to huggers--so would need to be mentioned in the appropriate place (in that example, the section on blades). Thanks. Piercetheorganist 01:38, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't it be "BASIS" for comparison? -Superbeecat 08:55, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Haha I've been waiting for someone to fall into that trap :-). The plural of "basis" (BAY-sis) is "bases" (BAY-sees). So since we're talking about more than one basis for comparison, it's "bases for comparison" (as opposed to basisis lol). Thanks. Piercetheorganist 09:02, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Perceived Usefulness
In the "perceived usefulness section", in the paragraph about humidity, something doesn't seem right. I can see that perceived usefulness here means the need for a fan, and thus fans are needed more in more humid climates (as explained by ), but I read it to mean the actual usefulness of a single fan: a fan cools one more in a dry climate, thus the fan is perceived as being more useful. Does anyone else see this? ChrisMP1 14:19, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Again, I disagree. A fan cools one more in a HUMID climate, according to the heat index article.

This is how the section you question currently reads:

"Since a fan creates its cooling effect by speeding the evaporation of moisture on human skin, its perceived usefulness is directly correlated with the amount of humidity (moisture) in the room. In dry environments, such as desert climates, a fan has a lesser perceived usefulness than in humid environments; this is especially notable during cold weather, where a humid environment has a pronounced wind-chill effect which is lacking in dry environments."

The introductory paragraph to the heat index article reads:

"The human body normally cools itself by perspiration, or sweating, in which the water in the sweat evaporates and carries heat away from the body. However, when the relative humidity is high, the evaporation rate of water is reduced. This means heat is removed from the body at a lower rate, causing it to retain more heat than it would in dry air.""

...thus proving that my original statement was correct. In humid climates, heat is naturally removed from the body at a lower rate than in dry climates, causing a person to remain hotter longer than in dry climates. Thus, there is a greater need for a fan than in desert climates--thus it is perceived as being more useful.

I'm originally from the east coast myself, and I lived here my whole life save for two years in Utah--a very distinct desert climate. The lack of humidity out there is actually quite a pleasure. In the summer there, it can be 105 degrees and feel no hotter than 85 here on the east coast--you look at the thermometer there and say "Wow, I didn't realize it's over 100--this isn't that uncomfortable!". I wasn't dying for a fan there, the way I do here. Also, the converse is true--the winters out there are more bearable than they are here. They don't seem as cold, because the humidity is really what adds the "bone-chilling" factor into the mix.

That's my opinion, FWIW Piercetheorganist 18:06, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm not disagreeing. I'm stating that percieved usefulness is possibly being used in a confusing way. You're basically saying, that a fan that doesn't work as well (because of humidity) is perceived as being more useful because it will be needed more. However, perceived usefulness seems to me to mean that the fan is perceived as being more useful in a dry climate because it works better. IMHO. ChrisMP1 22:19, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's very simple--I'm saying a fan is perceived as being more useful in humid climates, because it's harder for humans to naturally cool off in humid climates than in try climates. Piercetheorganist 23:04, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I understand this. However, that's not what it sounds like in the article. Am I the only one who thinks this? Is anyone other than Piercetheorganist reading this talk page? ChrisMP1 01:39, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, upon re-reading it, I agree with you that my wording in the article is confusing and sounds incorrect. I went and changed it. Thanks for sticking up for your point!! I've always said that it's very important to have bi-partisan debate, by which I mean it's important to be forced to argue your side of an issue against someone with an opposing side--it's what sparks original thought, close examination of comfortable assumptions, et cetera. Had you not stuck up for your point, I never would have looked at my writing, and I wouldn't have seen my mistake, and I wouldn't have learned anything. So thanks for being a conscientious Wikipedian, ChrisMP1! Piercetheorganist 08:36, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Also, you contradict yourself. You state that a fan cools one more in a HUMID climate, then go on to say that In humid climates, …, causing a person to remain hotter longer than in dry climates. IM(not-so)HO. ChrisMP1 22:25, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No, I didn't contradict myself. You're still not getting it. "...when the relative humidity is high, the evaporation rate of water is reduced. This means heat is removed from the body at a lower rate, causing it to retain more heat than it would in dry air." What that means is that people have a harder time cooling off in humid climates, and so need fans more than people in dry climates (where it's easier to cool off due to the lack of ambient humidity). Piercetheorganist 23:04, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I know, but you said that a fan cools one more in a HUMID climate. Now you're contradicting that again by saying that people in humid climates have a greater need for fans, thus the fan itself cools them less. ChrisMP1 02:30, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

The term "perceived usefulness" is vague and needs to be defined. The section may need a rewrite depending on how it is defined. Idioma 03:58, 28 June 2007 (UTC)
 * No, it's not vague it all. The term "perceived usefulness" is extremely self-explanatory--it's how useful an observer perceives a fan to be. That subsection details a few different bases on which a fan's perceived usefulness is based...so it belongs exactly where it is: under the section "Bases for Comparison". Piercetheorganist 08:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Question, though, Idioma: what's your motive here? Do you honestly thing that this article is in any way poorly-written, or that is does not give a complete and well-rounded basic-to-intermediate education in ceiling fans, or that it is hard to read/comprehend, or that it is inaccurate, or anything else like that? Or do you just still have your panties in a wad because I shot down your idea about adding a special section for huggers? Personally, I think this article is near flawless; very well-written, complete, highly educational, well thought-out, et cetera. If there's something specific that you think needs to happen, then post a detailed description of it here on the talk page (i.e. rather than saying "The term 'perceived usefulness' is vague and needs to be defined. The section may need a rewrite depending on how it is defined.", say how it's vague, what you think would be better, and what rewrites you would propose were we to adopt a change to that term.)--in other words, don't be vague in your accusation of vagueness. Personally, I don't think that term is vague at all--I think it's night-and-day clearly self-explanatory. So back yourself up here--explain, in clear and convincing detail, why you think it's vague. Thanks. Piercetheorganist 08:54, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

 * I think that your panties are in a wad, because somebody doesn't think that your article is perfect. How: it seems to mean the actual usefulness of a single fan - if the fan works better (cools one more), it's more useful. What would be better: include a definition of what "perceived usefulness" means. What rewrites: write said definition. Then it'll be night-and-day clearly self-explanatory, near flawless, very well-written, complete, highly educational, well though-out, et cetera. (Read that list of worship words. Yes, you wrote every single one. Wow, you do think highly of your writing…) Besides, Idioma's response wasn't lacking detail at all. You just got upset because nobody is ready to worship your article just yet. (P.S. No, I'm not Idioma, but here's your answer anyways.) ChrisMP1 12:47, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input, Chris. I think that, next time before you speak, you should take a good hard look at the userboxes on your userpage to make sure you're not contradicting yourself. Anyhow, no, I'm not looking for anyone to worship my article. If you'd take the time to look, you'd see that I read over what you said (re: the humidity topic), actually agreed with you, went and changed the article, and then publicly mentioned it here. I'm not looking for worship, or thanks. What I am looking for, however, is people to make points which are (a) valid and meaningful, (b) direct and clear, and (c) detailed and well-substantiated. Like I said to you before, "I've always said that it's very important to have bi-partisan debate, by which I mean it's important to be forced to argue your side of an issue against someone with an opposing side--it's what sparks original thought, close examination of comfortable assumptions, et cetera." This particular comment was directed at Idioma, however, and not you, because this was in response to his point about how "The term 'perceived usefulness' is vague and needs to be defined. The section may need a rewrite depending on how it is defined." I'm still waiting for his response, and I'm waiting for someone to substantiate the claim that "perceived usefulness" is vague, by explaining how it's vague, as I asked before. It's a two-word term; both words are common English; and both are being used in the colloquial definitions. I don't see room for "vague" there. Oh, and I still think my article is near flawless; very well-written, complete, highly educational, well thought-out, et cetera :-). Piercetheorganist 14:00, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

I'm sorry; I guess I got a little hot-headed. My rant was a little bit rude… Actually, the article is very good, and I apologize for not checking it. Also, in response to the userbox comment - I agree. I got very rude here, and I'm not normally like that, so you have my sincerest apologies. ChrisMP1 14:05, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * That's fine, dude, it happens to all of us. I've said far worse. But thank you, I appreciate your apology :-). Piercetheorganist 14:07, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

First off, Pierce please do not use inflammatory language such as "panties in a bunch". Such language does not contribute to the collaborative nature of Wikipedia. I am not here to promote my own agenda. I'm here to work together with others to create a resource for the world to use freely. The I think this article is very informative. However it needs work to conform to Wikipedia standards such asWP:NPOV among others that I have already communicated to you. This is partially due to it being authored almost entirely by one person who fights every single edit anyone else makes to it. "Perceived usefulness" is vague because different people find different features to be useful. These seem to be a list of items that you perceive to be useful. The confusion that lead to this discussion is because of this lack of definition. I cannot define useful means in this instance because I don't know what you find useful until after I read the section. Perceived is also a sticky word. Who's perception. Most apparently it is probably yours, or you will attribute it to "The Fan Book". If it is from the fan book, use inline citation (page numbers are always nice). I have repeatedly thanked you for your contributions to this article, I encourage you to continue to work in cooperation with others to improve this article. Instead of getting offended when people make suggestions and changes listen to their concern and see what you can do to improve the article, responding with civility. Kaizen. Idioma 03:58, 30 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Of course you're here to promote your own agenda. We all are. Your agenda is, ostensibly, "to work together with others to create a resource for the world to use freely". So, please, please don't take space here on the talk page to pick apart language. As far as I can tell, no one is grievously offended here--and if they are, they need to handle it in a different forum (i.e. outside of this talk page). And "panties in a wad" is not inflammatory--it's simply a colloquial euphemism for "worked up". Piercetheorganist 02:48, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * This article does not violate NPOV in any way that I can see. And no, you have not communicated any NPOV or other Wikipedia violations to me. So if you think there, seriously, are any--post them here on the talk page and we'll discuss them. The article has no POV--there are no opinions in there, certainly none of mine. It simply states facts. I didn't say that "this brand is better than this brand" or "this style is nicer than this style", or anything like that. So rather than saying that "it needs work to conform to Wikipedia standards such asWP:NPOV", specify what you're actually talking about. What, exactly (quote the article) violates NPOV? If you're going to make accusations of policy violations, either be specific or be quiet--vagueness helps no one. Kaizen. Piercetheorganist 02:48, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * The "perceived usefulness" section looks fine to me. I typed "useful" into Merriam-Webster; it has a very simple definition: it's an adjective meaning "of a valuable or productive kind". If you don't know what 'perceived' means, there are plenty of free dictionary resources available to you online. I'm sorry that you couldn't figure out what "perceived usefulness" means. So, for your benefit and the benefit of anyone else who has trouble figuring out what "perceived usefulness" means, I have updated the article to read "...a fan's perceived usefulness (i.e. how useful an observer perceives a fan to be)". Piercetheorganist 02:48, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Whose perception? "The closer the fan is to the observer, the more air movement the observer will feel." "...for observers situated directly under the fan, this lowered its perceived usefulness." It is the perception of the observer--the person using (or making use of) the fan. And no, they are not my perceptions. They're not even opinions. The three things in that category are basic physics:
 * The farther away the fan is from you, the less you'll feel its breeze.
 * The further the blades are tilted away from where you're sitting/standing, the less you'll feel their breeze.
 * Fans create their cooling effect by evaporating moisture off the skin. Less moisture = less cooling effect.

That stuff all seems very self-explanatory. Idioma, I think you're out of line here--you're not generating anything usable; the stuff you picked apart is very basic. I'm going to contact you on your talk page, so please be sure to check it. Thanks. Piercetheorganist 02:48, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It is not the job of an encyclopedia article to tell readers what they should think is useful. Some may think that usefulness is determined by energy consumption, another by how well it coordinates with the decor, and still another by reliability.  Each person has their own idea of what makes something useful.  I really don't disagree with your criteria for usefulness.  However, it is a POV issue and should be removed from the article.  Idioma 07:51, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * In order to clarify my meaning, I have changed "usefulness" to "efficacy"--because you're right, someone may see a beautiful fan as being more useful to them than a utilitarian fan. Efficacy being defined as "the ability to produce a desired amount of a desired effect", and ceiling fan being defined as "a device suspended from the ceiling of a room, which employs hub-mounted rotating paddles to circulate air in order to produce a cooling effect", the two now match. And no, nothing in that section is POV. Everything there is known scientific fact: you move farther away from the fan you feel it less, you aim the blades away from yourself you feel the breeze less, etc. There's no saying that one fan or model or design is preferable to another--it's simply stating "you do X, you get Y". Thanks for your continued input. Piercetheorganist 22:55, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good solution. Idioma 03:35, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Other languages
Is there some fantastic easy Wikipedia way to see whether a page about the same topics has been written in another language? Piercetheorganist 09:05, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

 * No. Wikipedia doesn't know this, as the word for a ceiling fan would be different in another language. Unfortunately, you'd need to figure out the translation for "ceiling fan" in any language that you wanted to include a link to. To get you started: Esperanto - plafona ventumilo, Spanish - ventilador del techo. ChrisMP1 13:03, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I saw you added Esperanto. I added ventilador de techo (I typed "ventilador del techo" into Google, and the Spanish seem to go with the incorrect[?] grammar of using "de") as the Spanish link, and ventilateur de plafond (again, it should technically be "du", but the French go with "de") as the French link. I also created both those pages on the respective Wikipedias, and added the English-language link, so if anyone every writes those pages they'll automatically be linked in here. Piercetheorganist 14:09, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * I mean to improve on the Esperanto article. Do you mind if I use translated text from this article? I don't know nearly as much as you do about this subject; I couldn't write much more than a stub, which is what I've done. ChrisMP1 14:14, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Feel free to! If there's anything I typed that's too much of a fan-world vernacular to translate, let me know, and I'll define it as best I can. Piercetheorganist 15:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

By the way, your blank article on the Spanish Wikipedia has been deleted, so I removed the link. ChrisMP1 14:18, 29 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, okay, thanks! Piercetheorganist 15:04, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

Exception to usage
I will be reinstating the following edit in the Uses section:

Exception
There is an exception to the standard rule of blowing down in the summer and up in the winter. When a ceiling fan is mounted in a room with very high ceilings that are two stories/levels high. The mode of operation is reversed. In this scenario the fan is mounted so high up that there is no significant "wind chill effect". The purpose then becomes to move hot air down in the winter and pull cold air up in the summer. (fundamentally incorrect - use logic and think about that statement Piercetheorganist 02:28, 2 July 2007 (UTC))

I will cite the following web resources as well : http://www.wonderquest.com/Fans.htm and http://totalsync.com/blog/2005/01/29/ceiling-fan-direction-wheres-my-compass/

Piercetheorganist has reverted this content and we are discussing it in our talk pages. Piercetheorganist states that the information is obvious and redundant to the Height of the fan relative to the observer paragraph within the Bases for comparison section. This is not the point. The fact I am presenting is not that fans mounted higher than normal give no perceived cooling effect, but that they serve instead to more efficiently circulate the air in reversed opperation at a height where they cannot be effective in cooling via the "wind chill" effect. Refer to the cited articles for more information, which was the purpose of adding this information. I feel this is important information for users of ceiling fans to be aware of, hence my addition of content. If anyone feels they can convey this information more clearly I welcome their edits. But I will not stand for blanking. --SB 01:55, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I have a source which conflicts your sources, so I have reverted your edit again. In order to prevent this from growing into an edit war, please observe the convention of waiting for consensus on the talk page before re-instating. Piercetheorganist 02:26, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Okay, to be specific: first off, the two sources you cited are not credible, as they present no scientific data. The first source says "'Some people with higher ceilings, like a stairwell, often do the opposite of this,' Marcus of Lamp Depot says and explains their rationale." What some people choose to do doesn't create fact. Also, customers' personal rationale isn't an acceptable basis of fact. The second source is a person's blog. Personal blogs are also not accepted as scientific fact, unless they present verifiable scientific data. My source, which is a published hardcover book, uses data from ASHRAE, amongst other sources. Yes, that book is the The Fan Book which I cited in the article, and yes I do own it and did scan that myself. Please refer to the diagrams/data on pages 26-29, 57, 59-61, 63, and 92-93. That data deals with fans' air movement, ceiling height, heat/cooling sources and their location(s) relative to the fan(s), winter/summer reversal, etc. If you can find a 'credible conflicting source, please feel free to show it here. Basically, the way it works is that hot air, which is less dense than cool air, naturally rises. If you run a fan in reverse, it sucks cooler air from the floor upwards and sticks it up at the ceiling--where it cannot be felt. The hot air which was previously up there obviously needs to be displaced somewhere--it is forced along the ceiling, and down the walls into the living spaces. That happens to be the desired effect in winter, but never in summer (unless you like to self-bake). That effect is the same regardless of ceiling height, and regardless of where the fan is in relation to the ceiling. Cool air will always naturally sink, and when a fan pulls it up the warm air will always be forced out of place. If you do that in summer, you will always be causing hot air to move downwards to living spaces, end of story. That's basic physics. Again, find a credible source with conflicting scientific data, if you can, and post it here. I personally guarantee you won't find one unless they figure out how to suspend the laws of physics :-). Piercetheorganist 02:26, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Credibility: I skimmed over your source and did not find anything specific to ceiling fans mounted two stories up, as I stated. The illustrations you mentioned all involve a fan mounted 8 to 10 feet up from the floor, which is still within range of the "wind chill" effect.  You do not have a conflicting source, unless you can site the exact page.  I did notice the citations that you referenced but they are specific to tables and illustrations.  There is no bibliography elevating this book to scientific fact.  Also, consider the source.  Your book appears published by a company that sells/sold fans, not a scientific authority.  The purpose is likely to educate consumers and not necessarily forward scientific fact.  There is a profit motive in play, not a pure educational one.  Barring a citation in direct contradiction, our sources would stand as equal.  Your point about the blog is valid, but it is corroborated with the second source.
 * The Fan Book doesn't look like a sales brochure to me. It looks like 128 pages of already-established fact--it is the only written about ceiling fans, and it goes into a lot of scientific/technical detail. I consider it to be a very reliable source. I also consider it to be the only one cited thus far. Piercetheorganist 11:02, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Physics: You are still missing the point, and yes I've taken a year's worth of calculus based physics in college so I under stand the concepts you are extolling both in the article and in this discussion. Think about a fan mounted (blade level not connection to the ceiling point) 16 - 20 feet up in a room.  The fan, even at high speed, can no longer move air fast enough to cause the cooling effect.  In the winter time, it would be a more efficient (thermodynamic) use of the fan to blow down as well, mixing the room air more forcefully than in reverse operation.  However, if you've lived in a cold climate, you know that having a fan blow on you removes the warm cushion of air from your body and makes you colder (exactly the wind chill effect observed outdoors).  But, if the fan can't move the air forcefully enough to disturb the warm air cushion around your body; the benefit of mixing the warm air down more efficiently becomes more valuable then trying to avoid the insignificant chance of wind chill.  Make sense?  The goal in the summer is to experience "wind chill" the goal in the winter is to move the warm air down.
 * You're still wrong. See below for my explanation. Piercetheorganist 10:53, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Copyrights: I think Prentice Hall would differ with your "old and nobody cares" argument on your fans website that you posted scanned images of this book to. According to Copyright the copyright will last quite a bit longer than 24 years.  Scanning in a letter of permission from the publisher would be the way to go.  By posting their book in it's entirety you are providing their work for free.  Regardless if the book is still in active publication.  Quoting certain sections you may get away with under fair use with your argument.  But complete reproduction, is a cardinal sin.  Think Napster.
 * What I wrote on that forums about my rational for scanning the book is irrelevant to this discussion. Piercetheorganist 10:53, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Edit war: I agree we shouldn't get into an edit war. But, until you can convince me that the information I've posted is untrue, you need to concede that it is.  I'm reinstating my edit once again, and I challenge you to follow your own advice of building a consensus that what I've posted is incorrect, before modifying the article.  If you or others do so, I will happily revert my edit.  But the burden is on you, and you have not met it yet.
 * --SB 05:09, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * No, the burden is not on me. And I have happily reverted your edit for you, again. You are taking an already-established article, and posting something as fact--something which is disputed, and has no scientific backdrop (evidence, proof). The sources you cite are (1) a blog, and (2) some interview with a fan salesman about his customers' rational for doing something different than what the manufacturer recommends. Again, the fact that certain people choose to do something, and then say "we do this for reason X", does not make reason X correct, valid, true, or proven. Et suppositio nil ponit in esse. Piercetheorganist 10:53, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Why your "exception" is incorrect The reason I am continually reverting your edit is not so much because your sources suck (though they do), but more because the point you are making is illogical.
 * First off -- it is incorrect to say "Think about a fan mounted (blade level not connection to the ceiling point) 16 - 20 feet up in a room. The fan, even at high speed, can no longer move air fast enough to cause the cooling effect." I can name scores of fans which can be felt, quite noticeably, at that height--and even higher, up to 40 or 50 feet. Not all fans move the same amount of air--read the section on 'Bases for Comparison'. Piercetheorganist 10:53, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * If a fan were up SO high that you could not experience the wind-chill effect, it would be up so high that you would not experience the heat-reclamation effect either--the same amount of air is moved in both directions; basic logic. Piercetheorganist 10:53, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Secondly -- it is incorrect to say "In the winter time, it would be a more efficient (thermodynamic) use of the fan to blow down as well, mixing the room air more forcefully than in reverse operation." You saying that it "would be" doesn't make it true--it makes you wrong. Et suppositio nil ponit in esse. The motor spins at the same speed regardless of direction, the blade pitch is the same regardless of direction, the blades' size and length are the same regardless of direction, the number of blades is the same regardless of direction--so, the same amount of air is moved regardless of direction (refer to the Bases for Comparison section). And actually, since the airflow is less restricted while pulling upwards, the amount of air moved is actually greater (again, refer to the Bases for Comparison section). You are just totally wrong here. And, therefore, so is your other statement "But, if the fan can't move the air forcefully enough to disturb the warm air cushion around your body; the benefit of mixing the warm air down more efficiently becomes more valuable then trying to avoid the insignificant chance of wind chill." Who are you to say what becomes more valuable when? That's POV. Piercetheorganist 10:53, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * From a personal standpoint, I will say that it has been my experience (and I have lots) that fans DO make the room warmer when in reverse mode, as opposed to when in forward mode--and I've never had it happen the inverse way, not even in a building with 20' ceilings where the fan was mounted 1' from the ceiling. Piercetheorganist 10:53, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Thirdly -- your statement "... Make sense? The goal in the summer is to experience 'wind chill' the goal in the winter is to move the warm air down." Yes, that does make sense--we all know that; it's already been said here; and it's been already stated in the article. Yes--the goal, in winter, is to move warm air down. A fan does NOT move warm air downwards more effectively running in summer mode (forward), as opposed to running in winter mode (reverse). And so you contradicted yourself entirely. As I already said, the airflow is exactly the same, if not slightly greater (refer to above, and to Bases for Comparison section in the article). And in fact, the movement patterns do move warm air more effectively in reverse--refer to the diagrams on the cited pages of The Fan Book--which is why fans have a winter mode in the first place. Piercetheorganist 10:53, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Physics is physics, and things are called laws because they do not change. Heat naturally rises, end of story. There is no debate to be had about that. So, from what I can see, your entire argument is based on the idea that fans on high ceilings move warm air downwards more effectively in forward mode than in reverse mode. And, from what I can see, you base that entire argument on (a) a personal blog, and what some salesman claimed his customers' personal rationalizations to be, and (b) your personal [and incorrect] supposition that a "fan, even at high speed, can no longer move air fast enough to cause the cooling effect" when it is on a high ceiling. So, again, I have reverted your edit to the article. Please DO NOT re-instate it until there is consensus here--and for that, you'll need verifiable, reliable, credible sources citing scientific data which directly proves what I've stated (which I base on logic, experiential proof, and the laws of physics) to be incorrect. Piercetheorganist 10:53, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
 * It is correct to say that fans warm a room better in reverse than forwards, and here is the proof: when a fan runs in reverse, it forces warm air along the ceiling, down the walls, and along the floor in an even pattern--which heats the room evenly. When a fan runs forwards, however, it forces air down in a cyclonic pattern, which is concentrated in the area directly underneath the fan, and so the room's temperature is affected unevenly. That's basic logic, basic physics (refer to the first law of thermodynamics, which in turn is based on the conservation of energy), and is backed up by data in The Fan Book, from Vornado, and elsewhere (not that that matters, because logic and the laws of physics trump all save for conflicting and verifiable scientific evidence). Piercetheorganist 10:53, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

So, SB, my messages to you are: 1. Et suppositio nil ponit in esse. Memorize that, and learn what it means. 2. Don't re-instate your statement of fact unless you can prove that it is, in fact, fact.

Thanks. Piercetheorganist 10:53, 2 July 2007 (UTC)

Piercetheorganist has written at length on his/her reasons for reverting SB's edits. I have to say that I don't find The Fan Book compelling, I don't think all of Piercetheorganist's comments are relevant (e.g. mention of the first law of thermodynamics with no context), and on reflection I think that the original statement about an exception by SB is quite plausible. I don't know for certain either way which is right, but I hope other readers will not confuse the length of Piercetheorganist's comments and mention of theoretical concepts in physics with correctness. This point deserves to be debated with hard facts, not rhetoric. —DIV (128.250.80.15 (talk) 09:37, 9 May 2008 (UTC))

 * SB, I think the time is ripe for you to reinstate your edit. Piercetheorganist has been banned from editing WP (see user page/discussion for comments).   ...unless we're still waiting for a consensus?!
 * —DIV (128.250.80.15 (talk) 09:40, 9 May 2008 (UTC))
 * Thanks, I'll give it a shot SB (talk) 03:33, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Industrial ceiling fans
I would like to have some mention of industrial ceiling fans on Wikipedia as industrial users have different needs and tolerances than the average home ceiling fan user. Since I am a new contributor would it be best to add a section to this page or create a new page specific to industrial ceiling fans that is cross referenced here?

As a matter of full disclosure I do work for a company that designs and manufactures industrial ceiling fans. I understand that the purpose of Wikipedia is not to promote specific businesses. This will guide the information I would like to include about industrial ceiling fans. The material included will be encyclopedic, will follow wiki-style and be fully sourced and cited to the best of my abilities.

Can we sort out the best place to put this information before I add and edit only to have it pulled down?

Thanks,

Bigassfans (talk) 17:04, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

 * I know your company (love it!). If you can provide a non-biased, sourced cross-section of industrial fan types, go for it. Having it all on this will be fine. The fan types section needs to be cleaned up a bit as well. There are some relevant guidelines to follow, and I don't know if these apply exactly, but you can look over Autobiography, Conflict of interest and No original research as to what you can and cannot do with regard to incorporating your own information, etc. The important one in this case, I imagine, is Conflict of interest. If you do not violate this, you will be fine. If your edits are in good faith (I am sure they will be), problems another user finds, if any, can be easily solved on this talk page or your user talk page. Charles 17:26, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Hey. I too know of your company; there were three of those enormous things installed at the newer of the two Super Wal-Marts in Winchester, VA (where I used to live). MAN those things move air, especially given the slow speed at which they turn! Anyhow, to answer your question -- there are no differences between regular (36"-56", 3/4-blade) "industrial" fans and regular (29"-60", 2to6-blade) "residential fans" as described in the article. The fact that the styling is different is irrelevant to method of operation, theory of operation, parts, performance, et cetera. If looking different earned its own section, we'd have to have a different section for every model at Home Depot! HOWEVER -- Big Ass Fans are not regular industrial fans. They very much should be written about here on Wikipedia. I do feel, however, that it should not be a part of this article -- (a) because this article is about "regular" fans, and (b) because this article is fairly lengthy already. I feel that a separate article, about LVHS (low-speed/high-velocity, for those who don't know) ceiling fans (or perhaps just LVHS fans in general?) should be written. While LVHS ceiling fans are related to regular ceiling fans, they are so different in terms of theory of operation and physical set-up that they should be given due treatment separately. There's nothing stopping you from writing such an article yourself -- however, be aware that you may be challenged on the finer points more than you would be if you were just Joe Schmoe. Also, be aware that everything you assert which is not common sense or common knowledge needs to be referenced (cited) from a published source -- i.e. something available to the general public, preferably (though this is certainly not required) online. So private internal company documents don't count. :-) Mr. P. S. Phillips (talk) 01:44, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

energy star changes
could someone add a section on the recent changes in ceiling fans due to energy star regulations. I have noticed more small base candellabra bulbs in use and someone at Lowe's told me there is a regulator on many fans that limits bulb output to 190 watts total (no matter how many bulbs are used). Is this true? I appologize if this is in the wrong place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Outofnapkins (talk • contribs) 17:12, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

Contradictions about summer/winter direction
The article says in summer to operate the fan counterclockwise to get a cooling downward breeze. However the following EPA page contradicts this: http://www.energystar.gov/index.cfm?c=ceiling_fans.pr_ceiling_fans_usage "In the summer, use the ceiling fan in the clockwise direction. While standing directly under the ceiling fan you should feel a cool breeze."

I've found other contradictory pages too. Which of these is correct? AcesDoubleSuited (talk) 05:35, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

It could be that the confusion is because the clockwise or counter-clockwise direction depends on perspective. The article specifies the perspective as standing under the fan and looking up. Perhaps the EPA perspective is that of looking down on the fan from above. Does it really matter, though? Anyone using a fan should be able to figure out whether the air is blowing up or down. Mikeblyth (talk) 06:47, 22 May 2009 (UTC)mikeblyth

I am new to the world of Wikipedia's talk section, and unlike Piercetheorganist, I am going to use real information in my edits. According to this webpage: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/cooling.html. It is even worse to have a ceiling fan circulating "clockwise" in the summer than is not having a ceiling fan at all. The reasoning for the quotes around "clockwise" is because on 90% of ceiling fans, counterclockwise is downward air flow and clockwise is upward air flow, and the other 10% it is the other way around. So in this section, we really should say upward air flow or downward air flow, instead of just the direction. The reason why the fan must be on the downward air movement in the summer is because, if it is set to upward air movement, it moves the warm air at the ceiling back down towards the living area, effectively making it worse. Ceiling fans do not change the temperature of a room like air conditioners do. Instead, the way ceiling fans cool you is by creating a breeze or wind chill effect that will make you feel cooler. If the downward air flow is engaged, the fan is pushing air down from the ceiling towards you and creates a breeze or windchill effect that naturally makes your body feel cooler in the summer. On most ceiling fans, counter-clockwise is the setting for downward air movement and clockwise is the setting for upward air movement. If you are unsure what direction is the correct direction, you must do as follows. Turn the ceiling fan on its highest setting and stand directly under it, if you feel a breeze of air pushing down to you, you have found the downward airflow setting. To verify, turn the fan off, stop the blades with your hands, and flip the switch the other way. Turn the fan back back on the highest setting and compare the amount air you feel with the other direction.(on virtually all ceiling fans there is an up/down or left to right switch, this switch is to reverse the blades) The direction which you feel the most air is the downward air movement setting. In the summertime, the ceiling fan should be used on the downward air movement setting and on its highest speed.

In the winter, it's the exact opposite. In the winter, the ceiling fan should be used on the upward air movement setting and on its lowest speed in order to pull the cold air up and push the warm air down off the ceiling to where you are situated. Hot air rises and the heat will naturally rise to the ceiling so when using the upward air movement setting and the fan is turned on low speed, the fan is pushing the hot air off the ceiling down to your level. The reason why it must be on low in the winter is because on low speed, the fan is circulating fast enough to push down the warm air that has collected near the ceiling but not fast enough for the wind chill effect to kick in and make you feel even colder. Most of this information can be found on this webpage: http://michaelbluejay.com/electricity/heating.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.111.38.194 (talk) 17:57, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Terminology problem
The term "resistor" in the section on controls is not right, as neither example given (iron core transformer, electronic control) is a resistor or resistive load. I'm not sure what term would work better -- perhaps just "power regulator" or "regulating element" if you don't want to get into technicalities of different control methods.

Mikeblyth (talk) 06:17, 22 May 2009 (UTC)mikeblyth

Necessity of "Panasonic fan collage" picture?
Is this picture really necessary? Its quality is poor, its value to the article is quite low, and it was posted by a user who has been suspended (User: Piercetheorganist). I just don't see how it adds anything to the article. A ceiling fan is a ceiling fan, even if it is a 'rare Panasonic' variety. Just my thoughts on the matter. Cheers all. 71.194.163.228 (talk) 23:14, 24 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Three pictures of the same fan is silly (unless perhaps to better illustrate FANatomy), and I think as long as Ceiling fan collecting, CeilingFANatic.com, and Ceiling FANcy (magazine) are red links, its rarity is'nt notable. Also, the built-in captions are ugly. I'm only barely feeling timid enough to not remove it myself. Fried Gold (talk) 21:22, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Wobbling leading to falling
I actually just had this happen. The wobbling caused the downpipe to fail. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.220.0.108 (talk) 13:15, 30 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Sure. It's crazy (maybe even evil) that this article would suggest that this isn't something that happens. I just saw that the Consumer Product Safety Commission ordered a recall of some ceiling fans for that very reason. Come on, of course wobbling is a problem! Any fool would know this. 72.40.152.209 (talk) 03:40, 18 October 2009 (UTC)

Just to join in on this, my grandma actually had that happen a couple of years back. The fan was not installed properly, it was very loose, and it would wobble like heck. Not only that but the metal hemisphere at the end of the downrod unstuck from the ceiling and you could see the wires holding the fan to the ceiling. After 7 years of noticing that I finally got a phone call saying that the fan finally fell down from the ceiling. They were even stupid enough to put it back up instead of replacing it. I knew for years even as a kid, that it would fall some day. It's pretty obvious, if it wobbles and if the hemispheric downrod mount unsticks from the ceiling, it's gonna fall. Although I think they might have a suspended ceiling in that room and so I'm gonna try, for safety reasons to entice them to take it down and put in a regular light before they sell the house. I think the guy who wrote that wobbling doesn't lead to falling might have been drunk when he wrote that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.111.38.194 (talk) 16:47, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Deleted "Broken Chain" Section
The information in "Broken Chain" certainly didn't merit existence as its own section, and in fact looked too irredeemably random to be useful for inclusion in the article. Probably a pretty obvious thing to delete, but I'm kind of a Wikipedia novice so I thought I wouldn't be quite bold enough to delete it without mentioning it here. Fried Gold (talk) 21:32, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
 * OK, my section-deletion edit was undone, even though I think the section I deleted was clearly not encyclopedic:

 * Some people accidentally rip the chain off of the ceiling fan completely. If they do that, they can't change speed anymore. They would have to fix a chain first. Some ceiling fan chains are so weak that people can easily rip it off completely. Sometimes people buy a wall switch that can change fan speed if people rips off the fan chain completely and leave it on high speed.

 * But I have no desire to get into a revert war, so for now I'll leave it to another editor to either re-delete this section, or explain to me why it should be kept. Fried Gold (talk) 06:08, 28 October 2009 (UTC)

 * It's been over a month, and no one has explained why this section ought to stay. I'm deleting it again. Fried Gold (talk) 22:18, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

I have a story about a pull chain issue. In 2010, I had a Hunter ceiling fan installed in my bedroom. Not long after that my table lamp broke and my only source of light was the light on the ceiling fan. Every time I needed to have the light on, I would have no choice but to pull the chain to turn on and off the light. With that said, after only 11 months after the fan was installed, the pull chain for the light got stuck in the on position and would not click. I tried to fix it by feeding the chain into the fan and then the chain just got sucked up into the fan.A couple of months later, one of my family members managed to get the chain out of the fan but couldn't unstick it. What I ended up doing was getting the chain to stick in the "light off" position and buying a lamp so I could use the fan during the day. What I found out had happened was the pull chain switch went bad and needed to be replaced. I found out that a new one cost less than $10, so I went to the store and bought one but have yet to put it in. Because of this, in the future I will only buy fans without lights so that this doesn't happen again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.111.38.194 (talk) 17:18, 16 January 2012 (UTC)

Deleted Covert Advertisement in "Wobbling" Section
I just went ahead and deleted the following:

---Despite the fact that a "balancing kit" (bag of small, adhesive-backed metal or plastic chips) is included with all new ceiling fans, many wobbling issues are not the result of a blade being too light, and therefore cannot be fixed by this method. Hunter states that their new system, the Perfect Balance system, can "automatically adjust the blades with every rotation and eliminate wobble once and for all."---

Wikipedia is not a place for advertising. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.20.9.33 (talk) 02:26, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

Size of Fans?!
I was wondering the spans of blades. I would like to know the tiniest ceiling fans and the largest ceiling fans. Also they have made some crazy fan styles (including fan blades containing OTHER fans ...and some fan blades are GIANT LEAVES!) I think that all of this should be included in the article. In-Correct (talk) 22:15, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

Industrial Strength Ceiling Fans Safety
I was seeking verification about those metal industrial strength three blade (spinner?) ceiling fans that spin rapidly. That they MUST be installed in high ceilings where the blades are impossible to reach a person because they are just as bad as a giant exhaust fan or a HVAC fan. Touching the blades while spinning could cause terrible injury. In-Correct (talk) 22:15, 25 October 2012 (UTC)

ceiling fan pictures
we need more cieling fan pictures. can someone find some? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.206.74.42 (talk) 23:06, 23 June 2013 (UTC)
 * We have many free licensed images available at Commons:Category:Ceiling fans. -- Infrogmation (talk) 23:21, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

Punkah
Not a ceiling fan by the modern sense but it's a fan and on the ceiling, predating the modern design. Not knowing the name Punkah can make finding anything about it a hard google search, some mention here would be nice.

Linking to here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punkah

11th image
We gotta change that, folks.

It says "poop" on the bottom left corner Ariodant (talk) 21:59, 20 February 2024 (UTC)

 * snitch 31.61.237.106 (talk) 11:48, 21 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Was it edited in? If it wasn't, it might just be coincidence. And there's nothing wrong with that being in an image unless done on purpose. Kwizz (talk) 16:21, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * you've seen the meme haven't you 418cat (talk) 09:50, 25 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I came to the talk page to mention this. you got to it first. MonkeyEditsTM (talk) 00:38, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I might've been a little late though, now I look at the timestamp. MonkeyEditsTM (talk) 00:40, 19 May 2024 (UTC)
 * to whom changed that i know where you live, sharped your steel we shall duel at sunset below the arc de triomphe 2601:1C0:5E81:4490:14E8:F9A3:D8E4:DC0B (talk) 22:06, 13 July 2024 (UTC)

 * Those whose only joy in life is the text "Poop", coprophiliacs,  defecation onomatopoeia enthusiasts, and anyone else interested  can enjoy that ceiling fan image and multiple other images with the text "poop" at Commons:Category:Poop_(text).   -- Infrogmation (talk) 23:05, 14 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ceiling fan


text: Category:Softball players

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Category:Softball players


text:
Nova (Richard Rider)

Nova (Richard Rider) is a character appearing in American comic books published by Marvel Comics. The character appeared historically as the star of his own series, and at other times, as a supporting character in team books such as The New Warriors. He is a member of the intergalactic police force known as the Nova Corps. He has access to the Nova Force and superhuman abilities including enhanced strength, flight and resistance to injury.

Publication history
The character was created in 1966 by writer Marv Wolfman in issue #3 of his fanzine Super Adventures. Then known as the Star, he was an alien doctor named Denteen who found a spaceship containing pills which gave him a different superhuman power every five minutes. In issue #6, Wolfman and writer Len Wein reimagined the character, now a prisoner named Kraken Roo who turns out to become the superhero Black Nova. Years later, Wolfman (working for Marvel Comics) and artist John Romita Sr. tweaked the design of the character's uniform and created a new origin story.

Nova debuted in The Man Called Nova #1 (Sept. 1976), written by Wolfman and drawn by John Buscema. Wolfman intended the teenage character to be an homage to Stan Lee and Steve Ditko's Spider-Man, down to his humble working-class roots and alliterative alter-ego. The original series lasted 25 issues from September 1976 to May 1979. Dangling plot lines were resolved in issues #206-214 of Fantastic Four (also by Wolfman) and issue #24 of Rom: Spaceknight. The character then disappeared into obscurity until returning as a member of the original New Warriors team debuting in The Mighty Thor #411 (December 1989), and continuing through The New Warriors #1-75 and Annuals #1-4 (July 1990—September 1996).

Following two subsequent Nova titles, Nova (vol. 2) #1-18 (Jan. 1994-June 1995) and Nova the Human Rocket (vol. 3) #1-7 (May.-Nov. 1999), Nova would return in The New Warriors (vol. 2) #0-10 (Oct. 1999—July 2000) and New Warriors (vol. 3) #1-6 (July 2005-Dec. 2005). After a four-issue miniseries titled Annihilation: Nova and a leading role in Annihilation #1-6, Nova (vol. 4) ran for 36 issues (April 2007-April 2010). This series tied into Annihilation: Conquest, Secret Invasion, and War of Kings. After the cancellation of Nova (vol. 4), some remaining plot threads were addressed in The Thanos Imperative, a six-issue miniseries with two bookend one-shots (May 2010-Feb. 2011).

Nova appeared as a member of the Secret Avengers during the first four issues of that team's eponymous series (May - Aug. 2010).

Nova appears in a Guardians of the Galaxy storyline running from August to October 2014, an Original Sin tie-in featuring a flashback to events immediately following The Thanos Imperative.

Original series
When the last surviving member of the planet Xandar's elite Nova Corps, Rhomann Dey, is dying, he selects New York high school student Richard Rider to replace him. Rider is given the uniform and powers of a Nova Centurion, but little instruction on how to use them. Calling himself Nova, Rider becomes a superhero, fighting costumed supervillains such as the Condor, Powerhouse, Diamondhead, the Corruptor, and the Sphinx, and teaming with heroes such as Spider-Man and Thor. He initially hides his identity, but later reveals it to his family.

Rider discovers Dey's spaceship orbiting Earth and uses it to journey to Xandar with Doctor Sun, Powerhouse, Comet, the Crimebuster and the Sphinx, where they join the Xandarians' war against the Skrulls. With the help of Rom the Space Knight, the Skrulls are defeated. Wanting to return to Earth, Rider is released from his duties on Xandar and relinquishes his powers.

The New Warriors
Upon his return to Earth, Rider struggles to readjust due to his failure to complete high school. Unknown to him, the planet Xandar is utterly destroyed in an attack by the space pirate Nebula. With the help of Night Thrasher, Rider regains his powers and joins the New Warriors superhero team, where he becomes close friends with Speedball. Richard briefly dates Yale student Laura Dunham and teammate Namorita.

Rider encounters Garthan Saal, a former Nova Corps Centurion who had been driven insane by absorbing too much of the Nova Force, the source of power for Nova Centurions. Saal seeks more power so he can restore Xandar to its former glory. He strips Rider of his powers and transports him to Xandar. Saal is defeated. Rider witnesses the reformation of the Nova Corps and receives the rank of Centurion Prime.

Assigned to Earth, Rider is confronted with the challenge of balancing dual lives as a member of both the Nova Corps and the New Warriors. Rider encounters a Nova Corps member from an alternate timeline named Nova 0:0, who prepares him to stop the Deathstorm, which is coming to destroy Earth. Because Rider defies Xandar's Queen Adora to stop the Deathstorm, he is temporarily stripped of his powers and rank, but is given back his powers when his replacement sacrifices himself.

Annihilation
Nova briefly travels the U.S. with the reformed New Warriors as part of a reality television show. Rider leaves the group when he is summoned to Xandar alongside the entire Nova Corps, which has been fully mobilized to respond to the Annihilation Wave, a force from the Negative Zone led by Annihilus. The wave decimates Xandar and the corps in a surprise attack. As the only surviving centurion, Rider makes contact with the Xandarian Worldmind, a living supercomputer that regulates the Nova Force and is caretaker of the entire database of Xandarian civilization. The Worldmind uploads itself and the entire Nova Force into Rider, greatly enhancing his abilities. During the Annihilation War, Rider takes command of the United Front, a loose collaboration of soldiers. In a nearly year-long campaign, Rider resists the Wave's advance across the galaxy until the United Front suffers a swift defeat. He leads a small team into the Wave's conquered territory and eventually engages Annihilus in personal combat, killing him.

After the Annihilation War, Rider returns to Earth to rest. However, finding out that his pleas for help in the Annihilation War were ignored by Earth's superheroes because of a Civil War, and meeting Penance - his old friend Speedball, who was mentally scarred by the events leading up to said war - Rider returns to space, feeling out of place on Earth and disturbed by what Penance had become.

Post-Annihilation
Attempting to aid the Kree against an assault from the Phalanx, Rider is wounded and crash-lands on a sparsely populated Kree outpost. While Rider's unconscious body recovers, Worldmind deputizes a local Kree commander, Ko-Rel, to guard him. Rider is infected by the transmode virus and joins the Phalanx. Now tasked with killing Rider before the Worldmind falls into enemy hands, Ko-Rel attacks him, only to be killed by Gamora in retaliation. Upon her death, her fraction of the Nova force returns to Rider and enables him to overcome the transmode virus. He flees Kree space pursued by Gamora and a Phalanx-controlled Drax. Seeking a cure for the transmode virus, Rider eventually arrives on Kvch, home planet of the Technarchy. Rider enlists the help of the mutant Warlock and his son Tyro, who cure Rider, Drax, and Gamora of the transmode virus. The five return to Hala to engage the Phalanx.

When ambushed by Skrulls during the Secret Invasion storyline, Rider is aided by Kl'rt the Super-Skrull. He learns about the Secret Invasion and heads for Earth. Rider learns that Project Pegasus, the base where his brother now works, is under Skrull attack. Working with Darkhawk, Rider successfully stops the Skrulls' advance. The scientists of the facility extract the Worldmind from his brain and use the supercomputer to jump-start a project known as the quantum flask, which restores Quasar to life. A Skrull warship is about to attack Project Pegasus but is destroyed by a band of alien Nova Centurions who then declare their allegiance to Rider.

Rider learns that the Worldmind has been recruiting members for the Corps without telling him. When he learns that Ego the Living Planet is among the new recruits, he becomes enraged and tries to battle Worldmind. As a result, he is stripped of his rank and ejected from the Nova Corps. Because his body has become dependent on the Nova Force, Rider will die if he is without it for too long. As a temporary measure, he borrows the quantum bands from Wendell Vaughn and becomes Quasar. Using his new abilities, Rider rescues the Corps from the War of Kings. Ego is removed as a Centurion and Rider regains his Nova Prime status, but not before most of the new recruits are slaughtered by the Shi'ar Imperial Guard. Nova agrees to train the remaining new Centurions, including his younger brother Robert.

Nova is recruited for the Secret Avengers by Steve Rogers and sent to Mars to investigate Roxxon's operations on that planet. While there, Rider discovers a second Serpent Crown secreted there, only to fall under its influence until rescued by Rogers and his team of Avengers. Shortly after this mission, Nova is called away to deal with the events of The Thanos Imperative and Steve Rogers confirms he has left the team.

Realm of Kings and The Thanos Imperative
A lost Nova Corps ship appears from a tear in space-time known as the Fault. Onboard is Zan Philo, a long-missing Nova Centurion who is assigned to train the new recruits. Later, Rider and Darkhawk find themselves inside the Fault, where they are called to do battle for the Sphinx against his younger self. Because of the unstable timestream inside the Fault, Nova is able to return with Namorita, his old girlfriend who had died a few years earlier. Rider returns to Project Pegasus, where he confronts an alternate Quasar who originates from the Cancerverse, a universe within the Fault.

Catching up to the alternate Quasar, Rider returns to the Fault to see the Universal Church of Truth rip it wide open. Assisted by others, he confronts Lord Mar-Vell, the evil alternate version of Captain Marvel, but cannot stop him. Entering the Fault to assist the Guardians of the Galaxy, Rider and the Guardians watch Thanos destroy Mar-Vell. Now facing an enraged Thanos, Rider pulls the Nova Force from the rest of the Corps for extra strength. He and Star-Lord are able to hold Thanos back for the few minutes it takes for the Fault to close, trapping all three of them in the Cancerverse. The two heroes continue to fight Thanos for a Cosmic Cube which has the power to send them home. Rider charges the Cube with the Nova Force to create a doorway for Star-Lord, intending to remain behind and keep Thanos from escaping too. Star-Lord escapes, but Rider is unable to prevent Thanos from escaping as well. Because no one is immediately aware Star-Lord survived, Nova and Star-Lord receive a statue in their honor on Hala.

Return
The latest Nova, Sam Alexander, locates the Xandarian Worldmind. Rider's consciousness awakens within the Worldmind during the encounter. It is later revealed that Rider and the Worldmind survived the closure of the Fault and remain trapped in the Cancerverse. Using the Nova Force, Rider manages to escape the Cancerverse, returns to Earth to visit his mother, and learns that his father has died. He encounters Alexander and they begin working together. However, in his escape, Rider has become a portal to the Cancerverse, which repeatedly attempts to invade Earth through him. Rider returns to the Cancerverse in hopes of closing the portal and thus saving his own universe. Despite his resistance, he is co-opted by the Cancerverse, but is freed by Alexander, who has followed him. The two escape the Cancerverse once more, using the Cosmic Cube carried by Thanos' Cancerverse doppelganger. Rider and Alexander resume their lives and relationships on Earth while continuing as Nova Corpsmen.

In the aftermath of "Empyre," Nova represents the Nova Corps during a Galactic Council meeting held by Kl'rt the Super-Skrull. When Emperor Stote of the Zn'rx was found dead in the restroom and Noh-Varr becomes a suspect after attacking the Skrull subaltern Val-Korr, Nova calls in the Guardians of the Galaxy to investigate Emperor Stote's murder.

During the "Judgment Day" storyline, Nova appears at Port Prometheus to protect the evacuees from the attackers at the time when Uranos the Undying was attacking.

Powers and abilities
Nova derives his powers from an energy source called the Nova Force which all Nova Corps Centurions wield. This energy was transferred to Rider by the Nova Centurion Rhomann Dey. The Nova Force affords Rider superhuman powers including flight, superhuman strength, speed, and durability, as well as the power to absorb energy directed against him and release it as gravimetric pulses and beams, either from specific parts of his body or from his entire body. Nova is a good hand-to-hand combatant, and has been coached by Chord.

Nova wears a standard Xandarian StarCorps uniform, designed to accommodate his powers without being damaged by them. The uniform is highly resistant to damage, including outer space conditions, and is airtight. In addition, the uniform has a built-in life support function that can sustain Rider under the most extreme environmental conditions, including acting as a life-support suit by locking off the mouth and eyes of the helmet. The helmet contains a radio, telescopic sights, night vision sensors, and heat imaging sensors, as well as a visual heads-up display for tracking energy signatures. Nova's helmet has a rigid construction and shape when worn, but becomes as malleable as cloth when it is not, allowing Rider to hide it in his civilian clothes when desired. Nova's uniform is not only extremely malleable, but contains specific functions to aid Rider in his role as a Nova Corps Centurion. Among these features are an electromagnetic discharge that can nullify gravity and an interface to stargates that allow him to enter hyperspace, where he can move at velocities exceeding the speed of light. Rider can also alter the appearance and nature of his uniform to suit his needs. However, as Rider learns the hard way, the Nova Corps keeps a strict dress code. When he makes major cosmetic changes to his uniform after rejoining the New Warriors, Nova is summarily ordered to conform to standard.

During Annihilation, Rider's uniform is altered and enhanced to house the Xandarian Worldmind as well as the entire Nova Force, which was previously used by all members of the Nova Corps. With the Worldmind and the Nova Force, Rider possesses tremendously augmented strength and durability as well as nearly limitless quantities of energy. The Worldmind consists of the entire culture and history of Xandar as well as the individual minds of thousands of years of dead Xandarians. The consensus voice of the Worldmind can speak directly to Rider, helping him to control the Nova Force, fight enemies, sense energy, interface with electronics, and protect against psionic abilities. The Worldmind can also assume direct control of Rider's body when he is asleep.

Marv Wolfman lawsuit
In 1997, on the eve of the impending release of the Blade motion picture, Marv Wolfman sued Marvel Characters Inc. over ownership of all characters he had created for Marvel Comics, including Nova and Blade. A ruling in Marvel's favor was handed down on November 6, 2000. Wolfman's stance was that he had not signed work-for-hire contracts when he created characters including Blade and Nova. In a nonjury trial, the judge ruled that Marvel's later use of the characters was sufficiently different to protect it from Wolfman's claim of copyright ownership.

Accolades

 * In 2011, IGN ranked Nova 98th in their "Top 100 Comic Book Heroes of All Time" list.
 * In 2012, IGN ranked Nova 19th in their "Top 50 Avengers" list.
 * In 2017, Den of Geek ranked Nova 2nd in their "Guardians of the Galaxy 3: 50 Marvel Characters We Want to See" list.
 * In 2018, CBR.com ranked Nova 1st in their "16 Strongest Nova Corps Members" list, 5th in their "Marvel's Strongest Cosmic Heroes" list, and 15th in their "25 Most Powerful Avengers Ever" list.
 * In 2018, CBR.com ranked Nova (Richard Rider) 6th in their "25 Fastest Characters In The Marvel Universe" list.
 * In 2022, CBR.com ranked Nova 2nd in their "10 Best Cosmic Heroes in Marvel Comics" list and 11th in their "30 Strongest Marvel Superheroes" list.

Earth X
In the alternate future of Earth X, Nova resides in the afterlife. He and two other deceased heroes, Ms. Marvel and Star-Lord, lead an initial charge against Mephisto but are swiftly defeated.

Marvel Zombies
Nova is featured in Marvel Zombies: Dead Days. Unable to overcome his fear and horror of the slaughter occurring around him, Nova fails to act in his own defense when Spider-Man attacks him. Daredevil intervenes, but is bitten when Nova is too shocked to assist. He and Thor are rescued by the Fantastic Four and united with the other surviving heroes on the S.H.I.E.L.D. Helicarrier. Nova panics further when Nick Fury formulates a desperate last stand defense, citing that this was nothing like previous global threats; and that the world was as good as dead. Regardless, Nova helps in the battle until he is bitten by Ms. Marvel. As a zombie, he participates in a failed attack on Doctor Doom's castle, in an effort to get at the humans inside. A zombie version of Nova can be seen in the Marvel Zombies miniseries, being shredded by a hail of metal fragments hurled by Magneto.

He is still mobile, as a zombie, when a swarm of zombies attack and attempt to consume the Silver Surfer. During the incident, Zombie Hulk crushes Zombie Hercules when the latter attempts to steal the Silver Surfer's head. Nova backs away, saying "On second thought, you keep that, big guy". He is later killed by the cosmic zombies.

MC2
Richard Rider appears frequently in the Spider-Girl series, which is set in an alternate future. The MC2 Nova (co-created by Tom DeFalco and Ron Frenz) first appeared in Spider-Girl #7 and wrongly believed Spider-Girl was a supervillain since she was fighting Darkdevil at the time. After a brief battle Nova later realizes his mistake.

Over time, the MC2 Nova attempts to tutor Spider-Girl on the importance of being a superhero. His arrogance and lack of patience with younger heroes causes his lessons to be largely ignored. However, the fact that Nova was a founding member of the New Warriors gave Spider-Girl the inspiration to form a new MC2 version of the Warriors.

By the time of the series, Nova has served as a temporary Avenger. He also appears in the Last Hero Standing and Avengers Next miniseries. Nova also assisted in the battle against Galactus in Last Planet Standing. The Nova in the MC2/Spider-Girl future is eventually confirmed to be Richard Rider in Avengers Next #2. His attitude toward Spider-Girl is often arrogant and dismissive, bordering on the contemptuous; but later he becomes impressed by her, after her surviving a battle against the Avengers' enemy Seth.

Forever Yesterday
Nova appears as the sole Caucasian member of a team of Avengers from a parallel reality where the Middle East is the dominant superpower. He serves the ruler of this alternate Earth, the tyrannical female Sphinx. He is shown the truth of how the female Sphinx used the energy of the Ka Stone to reshape reality by the original Sphinx's former advisor, Sayge. Nova betrays the Sphinx to join Marvel Man (Vance Astrovik) and Firestar of that world's Mutant Liberation Front as well as Night Thrasher, whose parents were murdered in this reality on the orders of the Sphinx. When Nova threatens to murder the Sphinx's cat, she restores reality.

Nova 0:0
The second Nova series Nova deals with Nova 0:0, who is much more adept at using his powers than Richard Rider. He often fights Nova to test him and to push Nova into using his powers in new ways. It is revealed that this Nova is, in fact, the alternate reality version of Richard's younger brother Robert. In that reality, Robert gained the Nova Force powers instead of Richard and stayed behind to lead the Nova Corps and help Xandar rebuild after the war with the Skrulls. Robert's Earth had been destroyed by the Deathstorm while he was off in space. Nova 0:0 would later sacrifice his life preventing the Deathstorm from destroying the 616-version of Earth. He died and was buried on Mars. In the fourth volume of Nova, the Robert Rider of the 616-version of Earth also becomes a member of the Nova Corps (alongside various other humans and non-humans) and again proves capable of using his powers in ways his brother Richard had not.

What If
Issue #15 of What If? contained four stories in which a young widow, a homeless man, Peter Parker, and a criminal became Nova instead of Richard.

In ''What If? Annihilation'', the Annihilation Wave reaches Earth in the climactic battle of the super hero Civil War. Nova, Captain America, and Iron Man work together and sacrifice themselves while using a weapon to destroy the Wave and save Earth.

Marvel Cinematic Universe
In March 2022, Marvel Studios was revealed to be developing a project featuring Richard Rider / Nova, with Sabir Pirzada writing. It will be a Special Presentation released on Disney+.

Video games

 * Richard Rider / Nova appears as a playable character in Marvel Super Hero Squad: The Infinity Gauntlet, voiced by Jason Marsden.
 * Richard Rider / Nova appears as a playable character in Ultimate Marvel vs. Capcom 3, voiced by Troy Baker. His Quasar and Kid Nova costumes as well as that of Sam Alexander / Nova from the Ultimate Spider-Man TV series are also available as alternate attires.
 * Richard Rider / Nova appears as a playable character in Marvel vs. Capcom: Infinite, voiced by Benjamin Diskin.
 * Richard Rider / Nova appears as a non-playable character in Marvel Ultimate Alliance 3: The Black Order, voiced by Robbie Daymond.
 * Richard Rider / Nova appears as a playable character in Marvel: Future Fight.

title: Nova (Richard Rider)


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