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Talk:Aq Qoyunlu

[Untitled]
"Turkish: Aq Qoyunlu" doesn't look right to me. I won't pretend to be fluent in Turkish or anything, but as a student of the language I'm yet to find the letter Q in it. The Black Sheep Turkmen are listed in Turkish as "Karakoyunlular", and it wouldn't surprise me if these Turkmen would actually be the "Akkoyunlular"

BigHaz 10:21, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The q is from Azeri. They are both arbitrary designations for kaf.

History of Iran
First of all, Ak Koyunlular is a Turkish state. And there's no reason to put History of Iran. Even in the western language, people says White Sheep Turks (which means Ak Koyun in Turkish). History of Iran is irrelevant in here. I removed it.
 * Like I said in the Kara Koyunlu discussion, the capital of both Kara Koyunlu and Ak Koyunlu was Tabriz, which nowadays is an Iranian city. It is perfectly fair to say that they are part of Iran's history. Parishan 04:54, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Not History Of İran Rayin Əhmədli (talk) 14:56, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

Cut-n-Paste Move
There's a history of a cut-and-paste move made by by Tajik in May 2006. Such moves sidestepping the normal "move" functionality must be avoided. Wait a moment so I can clean this up. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:29, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Okay, I've repaired it technically by merging the page histories of the two versions. Please note that I have personally not the slightest preference whether this should be on the one name or the other. Please work it out together and then do a Requested Move if necessary. Please do not re-create an article at the other location without properly moving this one. For the moment, I've used the "K" version, for the sole reason that it was the older article and hence, on a mere technical level, the more "legitimate" one. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Stub Sorting
Please feel free to reassign this article to a different stub category, but please don't just remove a specific template and replace it with the uncategorised stub tag. Thanks. Jeodesic 23:11, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Spelling
The CORRECT spelling of the name is Aq Qoyunlū. The q-sound is an original Turkic sound only lost in modern Anatolian Turkish (which replaces it with a normal /k/ sound), while it is preserved in almost all other Turkic languages.

The Aq Qoylunlu Turcomans were a Turkic tribe from Central Asia who were deported to the Caucasus by Timur.

Besides the historical facts, the spelling Aq Qoyunlu and Qara Qoyunlu are also used by major scholarly and academic sources, such as the Encyclopaedia Iranica, Encyclopaedia of Islam, and Cambridge History of Iran.

See "Aq Qoyunlu" in Encyclopaedia Iranica (by Prof. Dr. Quiring-Zoche)

Tājik 22:14, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Iranica, eh? :) You know Tajik, I really don't think that people that lived 800 years ago would have cared if a Q or a K was used for their names in a 21th century online encyclopedia in English language.. More so considering the fact that they didn't even use the Latin alphabet.. But again, there have been edit-wars for much less, so I am really dreading the day this page will be unprotected, sadly. In any case, please remember that this has not much to do with "Q" being lost in modern Turkish, the character "q" is simply not used in Turkish.. I mean, we are not even debating between two completely different sounds!! Q or K - what is the exact difference between these two? Aq qoyunlu would be pronounced in a way very similar to Ak koyunlu.. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I'm only saying that I just don't see the difference between Q and K in real terms, that's all.. Baristarim 12:29, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

 * If I may offer my own comment here for once: The difference seems to be that between a common English spelling with "k" (used by many general-purpose sources like Britannica, Columbia, the Library of Congress catalogs etc., and a lot more common on Google), and a more specialist spelling with "q" (used by EncIsl and others.) "Q" is undoubtedly the philologically more "correct" version, as it's the exact transliteration of the historical Arabic spelling, and probably also phonologically appropriate for Older Turkic. The difference is really a lot like that between Koran and Qur'an, or Mohammed and Muhammad. General-purpose literature will often prefer the "simpler" k spellings; more specialist literature geared to Oriental Studies and similar fields will prefer the q spellings. In general Google counts "k" is much more common, but if you count only on .edu, the two are roughly on a par. My gut feeling would have been that Wikipedia should go for the "simpler" English spelling (k), but apparently in cases like "Qur'an" we've chosen the "philological" version with q. Now, do with this whatever you like. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:51, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I still go with the "Q", because even the Azri version - the direct descendant of the language spoken by the White Sheep Turcomans - of the name is Aq Qoyunlu.
 * Another option would be "White Sheep Turcomans", like the German Wikipedia.
 * I would lso like to add that Britannica uses both versions. The Anatolian Turkish version "Ak Koyunlu" is certainly wrong. Also note that Wikipedia uses Göktürks instead of the more common "Gok Turks" in English.
 * Tājik 21:55, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Encyclopaedia Iranica is not a reliable source. If you look Britannica you would learn the right spelling. If you like you can look at how Turkmes wrote it at The Turkmen Tribal Federation Ak Koyunlu. Or you can look at The Metropolitan Museum of Art. All these resources are valid and famous. No one should think Encyclopaedia Iranica as a reliable source. Because a lot of stuff has been changed in favor of Iran in this Encyclopaedia. My resources are much more known than some Iranic/Islamic unreliable source. Sorry mister, but correct spelling is "AK KOYUNLU" Some other resources: Ackland Art Museum; Iran Heritage Foundation; Middle East Open Encyclopedia; Encyclopædia Britannica Australia; ANKARA ÜNİVERSİTESİ cagataycebi
 * Also i like to add something. I've look at "Aq Qoyunlu" in Encyclopaedia Iranica (by Prof. Dr. Quiring-Zoche). This profesor tells that: AQ QOYUNLUÚ or WHITE SHEEP, a confederation of Turkman tribes who ruled in eastern Anatolia and western Iran until the Safavid conquest in 907-08/1501-03. Then says that: The origin of the Aq Qoyunlu tribes likewise remains obscure. I cannot believe this. First he says they are Turks; then adds their origins are not known. How can you trust such a source? I am sorry but I ask for more reliable source in Wikipedia. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.215.124.60 (talk • contribs).
 * I'm afraid if you want to convince others you'll first have to make a bit more of an effort to understand what others are saying. We are not dealing with a question of "right and wrong" here. Both spellings exist, both are used in the relevant literature, both are correct. It's just a question of what is most common and what is most consistent with Wikipedia usage elsehwere. Please. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:06, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Interesting idea! But let's look how this started: Tajik had said: "The CORRECT spelling of the name is Aq Qoyunlū." So that shows us, somebody is trying to prove Ak Koyunlu is not correct; therefore it is wrong. You are saying "there's no wrong or right" to me. Let's look another sentence of Tajik: "The Anatolian Turkish version "Ak Koyunlu" is certainly wrong." As you see, someone constantly tries to prove Ak Koyunlu is wrong. By the way, if you search Aq Qoyunlu it gives 905 results whereas Ak Koyunlu gives 14,800 results. So Ak Koyunlu is much much more common than Aq Qoyunlu. In the Kara Koyunlu article, Tajik comes with same arguments and tries to change the title of Kara Koyunlu. I'm very concerned of these acts; because if the title is changed; this would mislead people. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.215.124.60 (talk • contribs).
 * So, then the right thing to do for both of you is to stop bickering and stop playing the silly "right or wrong" games. Make an argument with respect to commonness and to Wikipedia naming practices if you must. Fut.Perf. ☼ 11:47, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

For the moment, I've unprotected both articles for further editing and, for the time being, have changed the intro sentence in both to mention both spellings side by side. I've kept move protection on until the final location has been determined. Fut.Perf. ☼ 13:59, 23 November 2006 (UTC)

 * آق قویونلو is the correct literation in Arabic, Turkish and Persian. The ق is pronounced as Q in all three languages.  Anatolian Turkish due to Greek influence has lots it Q but Q is originally part of all Ataic languages.  --alidoostzadeh 05:45, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually Encyclopedia Iranicaspecializes in middle eastern history. Now the term Aq- Qoyunlu is correct because the letter Q exists in Azerbaijani Turkish.  The letter Q (Arabic Qaf) does not exist in Anatolian Turkish because the Greeks did not have such a sound.  The Persian and Arabic and Turkish spelling of the dynasty is : آق قویونلو.  The letter ق  is Q.  Anatolian Turkish uses the latin script(since 80 years ago) and does not make this distinction.  So Aq-Qoyunlu is the correct spelling.  --alidoostzadeh 05:38, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

 * You cannot make your claims based on Azeri Alphabet. Because it had done major changes since the beginning of 20th century. First it was arabic; then turned to latin; then changed to Cyrillic and lately it was changed backed to Latin again. By the way; Greeks didn't have great effects on Turkish as much as Arabs. Turks had used Arabic letters. Also lots of word passed to Turkish from Arabs. Therefore it is not ok to say, Turks lost Q because there was a great Greek effects on Turks. There was actually no 'Q' for Turks. If they had 'Q', they would insert this letter as they insert some special characters as Ç, Ş, etc... Azeri Turks may use 'Q'; but actually there's almost no difference with 'K' character. Aq Qoyunlu and Ak Koyunlu are pronounced all the same. Therefore I see no reasone to change the title. Also it is much much common to use Ak Koyunlu and Kara Koyunlu then Aq and Qara. You can look at the sources I've given. And you can make a googlefight if you like... By the way; I really don't believe that Encyclopedia Iranica is a balanced and unbiased source. You can try Britannica and other sources I've given you. cagataycebi.

 * Guys, how are you going to resolve this issue now? The two positions have been on the table for weeks, and I'm not seeing any really new arguments being put forward by either side. It's basically still the "more common everyday English spelling" vs. "more philologically exact specialist literature spelling" issue. Now, how do we decide? Further debate here doesn't seem very fruitful. A straw poll doesn't make much sense either, imho - it will just degenerate into a fight for greater numbers, we all know what Iranian-vs.-Turkish polls have looked like lately, and "voting is evil". Want an RfC? Want mediation? My personal recommendation: Just name a trusted neutral referee and let them decide as a tie-breaker and then stick with that. Slightly unconventional method, but maybe sensible in this case. Fut.Perf. ☼ 09:06, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Let me remind you something; there's no difference between Aq Qoyunlu and Ak Koyunlu in pronunciation. I really don't think it is ok to say that "philologically, Aq Qoyunlu is better to use". If it was 'better' to use by philologically, then there'll be some difference in pronunciation. But there's not! Iranians just insist to change the name for assimilation. Look at the article; at first sight, you cannot understand Ak Koyunlu and Kara Koyunlu are Turkmens. You see History of Iran sidebar which leads to some misunderstanding. Until you start to read article, you believe that Ak Koyunlular were Persian. cagataycebi

 * There may be no difference in pronunciation in your language (modern Turkish), and in English. There was apparently a difference in pronunciation in the language(s) those people spoke, as there still is both in Persian and in Azerbaijani and other Turkic languages, and there was a distinction made in the script these people used. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:36, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Really? If it's possible, It will be good to hear from an Azeri Turk how he says Aq Qoyunlu and Ak Koyunlu. Ak Koyunlu is a Turkish word; therefore it is not important how Persian says. They could pronunce as they like it, but Ak Koyunlu is a Turkish origin word and spelled same even if it is written as 'Ak Koyunlu' or 'Aq Qoyunlu'. (Note that: By saying 'Turkish', I don't only mean the modern Turkish that's used in Turkey.)
 * Judging from the Azeri spelling as cited in the article, it's actually even two different kinds of sounds transliterated as "q" here, in modern Azeri. I don't know enough about old Turkic to say what it would have been back then. But anyway, the "q" spelling used in the literature is not supposed to be an exact phonological transcription as much as a transliteration of the historical Perso-Arabic spelling. As I said, it's rather like having "Koran" at "Qur'an" and all the rest. If you want native-speaker input, try the babel category for az speakers. Fut.Perf. ☼ 10:57, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I stumbled on this one, while browsing. I am an Azerbaijani speaker myself, so if it is of any help, I'd like to make things a little clear. No matter in what alphabet it is written, the sounds denoted by K are different from Q and it is different from Ğ and that in turn is different from G. Four letters and five sounds, as the letter K can be pronounced in two ways. Modern standard Turkish does not have the sound Q or one of the two pronuncations of K, and the sound Ğ is almost never pronunced. But in this case we do not need to deal with either K or G. None of these three sounds exist in Ağ Qoyunlu. As for the pronunciation, the first letter is pronunced something like French R pronunciation, and the letter Q would sound like G in Group. I don't know how the language has changed in 500 years, but I suspect it must have been pronunced very similar to the modern Azerbaijani pronunciation. Cheers. Bye. --130.63.226.84 01:03, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

 * On a side note, I will reiterate my position that I put forth in another talk page about this issue of "script used"... There was never a "script used".. Back then, alphabetisation rates were lower then 1 percent, so I don't think it would have mattered if they had used Martian script.. Encyclopedias allow for modern-day Turkish renderings of centuries old names, just like in the case of Mehmed II - Mehmed is Muhammad in modern-Turkish. He is known as Mehmed. In any case, there is absolutely no difference between Q and K as cagatay said above.. I mean, in the English language they give the same sound, it doesn't matter how the some hypothetical sound would be transliterated from 500 years old Turkic or Persian script... "Ak koyunlu" gets 14,200 hits whereas "Aq qoyunlu" gets only 920.. This is the English wikipedia, and as such the most common name in English must be used, that's all... Baristarim 14:01, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, see my reply on the other talk page, it's not just the script, it's the whole language. Regardless, Aq Qoyunlu is the correct Azerbaijani pronunciation. --Mardavich 14:33, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I will have a look. However I just cannot see the point of all this.. If this continues for a while, this is definitely going on WP:LAME :)) Baristarim 15:06, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

 * This argument is ridiculous, the sound "q" and "k" in the English language is different, q is prnounded "qju" while k is "kei", in Turkey Turkish K is "Ke", in Azeri Turkish Q is "Qe", the two sounds in spoken language are virtually identicle. In colloquial Turkish spoken in both countries this letter actually sounds more like a "G", so it would be "Ak/Aq goyunlu".

Check "omniglot" letter pronounciations. In conclusion it doesn't matter how its written because its pronounced the same. Torke

White Sheep / Black Sheep
I am curious as to the history of the names "White Sheep" and "Black Sheep". Do "Ak" and "Kara" literally mean white and black? Did the two groups herd sheep? Or are they just called this because they were rivals, and Western scholars applied the epithet? (Might be something interesting to explain in the articles, as the average reader, like myself, with little knowledge of the region or the history, will find that curious.) Thank you. LordAmeth 14:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know why the "sheep" is used, but Ak/Kara literally means White/Black. Someone who knows the etymology can help with the explanation of the sheep though.. Baristarim 14:23, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

hey there, the two tribes were of shamanic origin and before converting to islam they had sacred sheep totems so that's why they have that name.-nouserhere

 * Ak and Kara were used as directions (North - South)--88.247.30.92 (talk) 14:13, 21 December 2009 (UTC)

Iran tag
Pejman47, Akkoyunlu are a Turkic dynasty, they ruled over what's now Turkey, Armenia, Azerbaijan, Iran and Iraq. So why should there be a tag on history of Iran only, this tag is irrelevant here. Either we should have all 5 tags or none. Atabek 14:52, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

 * History of Greater Iran template covers both, so it should be fine now, no need to insert two different templates when there is one that covers both.Hajji Piruz 17:34, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
 * History of Azerbaijan is History of Azerbaijan. It might have common area with other countries histories but we hsould not mix templates--Dacy69 15:03, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Deleting the Iranian history template is not right. Tabriz as the capital of the dynesty, has always been an Iranian city and in contrast, until recently, Azerbaijan has never been a independent nation /country, so placing such a template seems to be wired ... Anyway, according to the fact that today's Azerbaijan Republic was a province of the Kara Koyunlu, adding the template of Az.Rep history is tolerable , but deleting the Iranian template is impossible .--Alborz Fallah 08:01, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Iran is not a Turkic state, while Azerbaijan is. Iranian history never claims Akkoyunlu as predecessors of Iranian peoples, while Azerbaijani historiography does. Atabek 07:46, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

Over all, I think there may be no template at all , but all of the today's countries in the region, like Iran , Iraq , Azerbaijan Republic , Armenia and Turkey need to know about this states for understanding their history .--Alborz Fallah 09:37, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Iran does not consider itself an ethnic state: Iranian nation is multi-ethnic. In fact, the Turkic language dynasties of Iran are the new uniting Iranian dynasties: the Safavids were been Turkic language, but the main builders of the modern Iranian nation. The Ak ghoyunlu and Qhara ghoyunlu were closely related to the safavids and they had marriage with themselves: some of the Safavid's ancestors where from these dynasties.

 * I fully agree on Safavids, they were Turkic dynasty of Iran who built the modern Iranian identity. But Akkoyunlu and Karakoyunlu never associated themselves with modern or contemporary definition of Iran. They were very much Turkic states, in fact Jahan Shah was a Shah of Azerbaijan. So for balance and fairness to all countries on whose territory Akkoyunlu and KArakoyunlu existed, it's better to keep the history without numerous tags. Atabek 01:54, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

 * There is no doubt about the difference of that age's perspective toward "national identity" and "state - nationship" comparing to the modern age ideas, but as I know, the Jahan shah- e- qaraquyounlu , was not only a king of Azerbaijan . He was also king of the Khuzestan , Kerman,Fars and Herat. He considered himself as Shahanshan and also wrote many poems in Persian (same as Ismail Safavi), that are more than Turkuman poems of himself....--Alborz Fallah 09:45, 22 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Here in Iranica, there is a good prospect of the matter:QOYUNLUÚ or WHITE SHEEP

With the conquest of Iran, not only did the Aq Qoyunlu center of power shift eastward, but Iranian influences were soon brought to bear on their method of government and their culture. In the Iranian provinces, Uzun Hasan maintained the preexisting administrative system along with its officials, whose families had in some cases served under different dynasties for several generations (see J. Aubin, “E´tudes Safavides I: Sah Ismaayil et les notables de l'Iraq Persan,” JESHO 2, 1959, pp. 37-81). The sources mention only four top civil posts, all held by Iranians, in Uzun Hasan's time: those of the vizier, who headed the great council (divaan); the mostawfi al-mamalek, who was in charge of the financial administration; the mohrdaar, who affixed the state seal, and the marakòor (stablemaster), who looked after the royal court. The post of sáadr (head of the religious dignitaries) is only attested to from the reign of his son Yaqub but may have existed under Uzun Hasan.--Alborz Fallah 08:44, 24 July 2007 (UTC) See also:Abdul Hussein Navai, Asnaad o Mokatebaat Tarikhi Iran (Historical sources and letters of Iran ), Tehran, Bongaah Tarjomeh and Nashr-e- Ketab, 2536, pages 578,657, 701-702 and 707.سيدعلي مويد ثابتي، اسناد و نامه هاي تاريخي از اوائل دوره‌هاي اسلامي تا اواخر عهدشاه اسماعيل صفوي، تهران، کتابخانه طهوري، 1366، صص 193، 274، 315، 330، 322، 392، 422، 430. نيز ن. ک. به: عبدالحسين نوائي، اسناد و مکاتبات تاريخي ايران، تهران، بنگاه ترجمه و نشرکتاب، 2536، صص 578، 656، 701-702، 707
 * See also : Seyyed Ali Mua’yyad Sabeti, “Asnaad o Naameh-aayeh Tarikhi az Avael Dorrehaayeh Eslali taa Avakher ‘Ahd Shah Ismail Safavi”(historical sources and letters from the beginning of the Islamic era till the end of the era of Shah Ismail Safavi), Tehran, Ketabkhaayeh Tahoori, 1366. pages 193, 274, 315, 330, 332, 422 and 430.

سلاطين عثماني درمکاتبات خود براين‌هويّت‌ايراني تأکيد مي‌ورزند و پادشاهان آق‌قوينلورا"ملک‌الملوک‌الايرانيه" و "سلطان سلاطين ايرانيه" و يا "شاهنشاه ايران خديو عجم" و "جمشيد شوکت و فريدون رايت و دارادرايت" خطاب مي‌کنند، و شاه اسماعيل را با عناوين «ملک ممالک العجم و جمشيد دوران و کيخسرو زمان».

Which translates as : In letters from Ottoman Sultans, when addressing the the kings of AQ QOYUNLUÚ,such titles as “Malak al-Molouk al-Iraniyyah( King of Kings of Iran), “Sultan Salatin Iraniyyah”(Sultan of Sultans of Iran),”Shahanshah Iran Khadiv ajam” (King of Kings of Iran and the Ruler of Persia),”Jamshid Shawkat wa Fereydun Raayat wa daaraa deraayat” (Powerful like Jamshid, Flag of Fereydoon and Wise like Darius) have been used--Alborz Fallah 08:59, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I added your information to the article. Very informative, thanks.Hajji Piruz 16:47, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Tags
Instead of tag warring, it's better just to leave Akkoyunlu alone without tags. Obviously most relevant tags here are those of Turkey (where Akkoyunlu state mostly was), Azerbaijan and Iran. But inserting 3-4 tags is impractical and makes the page unreadable. So it's easier to keep it this way. Atabek 07:59, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Just made some fixes. Its not necessary to say "according to Iranica" as Iranica is the most authoritative source regarding the history of the region.Hajji Piruz 23:23, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Iranica is the most authoritative source on the history of Turkey, Caucasus and Iran? Can you please, provide published proofs for your statement. Atabek 08:09, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Why is Iranica being criticized all of a sudden? You could say the same about every source, then there would simply be chaos. I could say, well, is Britannica really authoritative? Is Columbia really a good source? Is Stephen Hawking really an expert in his field? is Michael Jordan really one of the best Basketball players ever? Research Iranica for yourself and you'll know why it is considered the most authoritative source about the Near East.Hajji Piruz 16:17, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

Templates
Alborz, this has been discussed earlier that Ak Koyunlu dynasty, based also in Anatolia, had equal influence on history of Turkey as it did on history of Azerbaijan and Iran. So there is no need to insert a singular template on history of Greater Iran and start a new round of conflict with templates, which yield the page text unreadable. Please, check the past edit by dbachmann with comment "template clutter". I think the template could be discussed if the format of it is changed, to fit the bottom part of the page, just like History of Anatolia template does currently, otherwise, it becomes unreadable. Thanks. Atabek (talk) 17:48, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * No problem.I was -wrongly- undoing other one's (an IP) edit.Then I didn't add that tag.My thanks--Alborz Fallah (talk) 08:08, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Why isn't their a History of Greater and Iran aswell as History of the Turks template, wouldn't it be more logical

Torke —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.143.0.143 (talk) 00:30, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Founder
In the introduction it reads: According to Byzantine chronicles, the Ak Koyunlu were present in eastern Anatolia since at least 1340, and most of their leaders, including the dynasty's founder, Uzun Hassan, married Byzantine princesses. Does this mean that Uzun Hasan was the founder of the dynasty ? Of course not; the founder of the dynasty was Kara Yülük Osman, Uzun Hasan's grand father. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 09:43, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

Naming
Ottoman Turkish: آق قوینلو = Aq Quyunlu, Aq Qoyunlu.

q and k are different but in modern Turkish they are not able to be distinguished. Today text q character is replaced to k (kalın) in present Ottoman language textbooks. But here isn't modern Turkish Wikipedia, I recommend you to use q character.

Takabeg (talk) 04:08, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Flag
According to Mehmet Fuat Köprülü (and later it was qouted in the TDV İslâm Ansiklopedisi), ''Akkoyunlular'da ayrıca Bayındır damgası nı taşıyan türlü renklerde bayraklar da vardı. Topkapı Sarayı Müzesinde bulunan bir bayrağın üzerinde Hasan Bahadır ismi bulunmaktadır. (In Aq Qayunlu, there were flags in various colors with the damga of Bayindir. One of these flags that is located in the Topkapi Palace Museum includes the the name of Hasan Bahadur.''). But we cannot see the damga of Bayindir in the flag used in this article. Takabeg (talk) 13:42, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Yılmaz Öztuna referred to their flag and wrote Akkoyunlu bayrağı, beyaz renkteydi. (The flag of Aq Qoyunlu was white.). Dilaver Akkyonlu also mentioned ...ak renkli bayrak... (White flag). Takabeg (talk) 14:00, 19 June 2011 (UTC)

Naming
The name of the sultanate is Ak Koyunlu. But for some reason which I'm completely unaware of, the article was originally named Aq Qoyunlu. Now it was further renamed as Ag Qoyunlu ? Well Turkish prohibits the letter g at the end of a word. The title should be moved to Ak Koyunlu. I'll call the editor. Nedim Ardoğa (talk) 08:54, 17 May 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree - it should be Ak Koyunlu, under wp:commonname if for no other reason. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 23:52, 17 September 2016 (UTC)
 * My opinion should be as: The Aq Qoyunlu, (Ağqoyunlu, Ak Koyunlu, ; Āq Quyūnlū) also known as the White Sheep Turkomans Beshogur (talk) 00:27, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Google search: "Ak Koyunlu" 34,800 results; "Aq Qoyunlu" 32,500 results. Google Scholar: "Aq Qoyunlu" 718 results; "Ak Koyunlu"  470 results. There is also the variant "Akkoyunlu", but this is impossible to easily assess using Google since it is also a surname. The majority of the "Ak Koyunlu" results are not Turkish-language sources, so an argument to exclude it on "it is just modern Turkish spelling" would be invalid. The results suggests close parity in usage, with "Aq Qoyunlu" on balance slightly ahead. These results would support: The Aq Qoyunlu or Ak Koyunlu, (Āq Quyūnlū, Ak Koyunlu) also known as the White Sheep Turkomans. This dual naming also follows the format seen on the Kara Koyunlu article. As for the Turkish and "Azeri" spelling, it would be better to have content explaining that the name means White Sheep in Turkish, and I don't see a reason to include modern Azeri since it is identical in pronunciation to the Turkish and is an alphabet that is only a couple of decades old. Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 16:18, 18 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Undiscussed move: Beshogur unilaterally moved the article title from Aq Qoyunlu to Ağ Qoyunlu . I don't see any grounds for this change; "Ağ Qoyunlu" gets only 19 hits on Google Scholar. . Tiptoethrutheminefield (talk) 15:32, 14 March 2017 (UTC)

Turkish, Azerbaijani and Turkmen
Regarding 's revert, I'd like him to present WP:RS sources that state that the Ag Qoyunlu spoke Turkish, Azerbaijani and Turkmen, and wrote these languages in the Latin script. Until that time, the reinstatement of this is nothing more than, unfortunately, disruptive editing, and will be dealt with as such accordingly. - LouisAragon (talk) 14:26, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

 * He just reverted it once again without any source and a load of self-formulated POV as seen right here. - LouisAragon (talk) 14:30, 4 September 2016 (UTC)

That's right Rayin Əhmədli (talk) 14:57, 19 January 2022 (UTC)

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Requested move 15 April

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. (non-admin closure) TonyBallioni (talk) 18:17, 29 April 2017 (UTC)

Ag Qoyunlu → Aq Qoyunlu – For some reason, without any discussion on the talk page, the name of the article was changed from the common English spelling of 'Aq Qoyunlu' to 'Ag Qoyunlu'. Can someone please change this back? --HistoryofIran (talk) 14:42, 15 April 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. Yashovardhan (talk) 17:57, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

 * Note extensive discussion of the issue above here, here and here. —  AjaxSmack   16:43, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
 * The first two are from 2006 and 2010, and are completely unrelated to the change of the page name (which happened in late 2015). While the third one is actually against the 'Ag Qoyunlu' spelling as well. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:50, 15 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Sorry. I should have said "note extensive discussion of the article's title..." —  AjaxSmack   16:52, 15 April 2017 (UTC)

 * Support a move away from the current title; it is much rarer then the proposal. Using the Google Books results linked above, the top titles for this topic are Aq Qoyunlu/Aqqoyunlu and Ak Koyunlu/Akkoyunlu.  I'm fine with either, but feel the q vs. k decision should also apply to Kara Koyunlu/Qara Qoyunlu.  —  AjaxSmack   19:35, 22 April 2017 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Azerbaijani language
Can Akocsg provide a source for their change of referenced information? The reference and quote clearly state Azerbaijani language, not Oghuz Turkic language.
 * "...and dedicated it to the Aqqoyunlu Sultan Yaʿqub (r. 1478-90), who himself wrote poetry in Azeri Turkish." --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:17, 13 November 2017 (UTC)

 * @Kansas Bear Uh, Azeri Turkish is Oghuz!? Oghuz is just the name for that group of Turkic languages, including Azeri. And since that confederation is mentioned practically everywhere as being Turkmen / Turkoman, I thought that it is logical that they also used the Turkmen language, thus rendering it more plausible to insert Oghuz Turkic, instead of only Azeri Turkish. I didn't think this would become such an issue, since technically both terms are not wrong. Regards, Akocsg (talk) 16:48, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

 * Guess you missed the part where we only write what is stated by sources and why would we not mention exactly what the source states? Accordingly the Oghuz languages article states there are numerous sub-branches, generalizing it would be OR. AND, I see no source(s) for Oghuz or Turkmen languages.--Kansas Bear (talk) 19:22, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

qoyunlu / koyunlu
there is no link between Aq Qoyunlu and Kara Koyunlu, because the two have different spellings. please uniformize and link them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:1AE9:186:8400:356B:6EB8:1DC:E494 (talk) 19:30, 15 December 2018 (UTC)

Remove Persianate
Aq Qoyunlu is not Persianate, Their language is Turkic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.235.92.88 (talk) 14:34, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

 * You clearly don't seem to know the meaning of Persianate. I would advise you to look it up instead of doing disruptive edits. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:13, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 * i don't understand why you insist on language of this goverment they speak turkish not persian. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.235.92.88 (talk) 15:48, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 * You clearly didn't read my comment. Read again. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:16, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Their Culture is Turkish so They aren't Persianate . — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.235.92.88 (talk) 16:38, 27 December 2018 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'm closing this "discussion" as this IP is clearly WP:NOTHERE to build this encyclopedia;
 * 1) IP in question continues to disregard the reliable sources, here on the talk page, as well as on the article itself.
 * 2) IP in question has tried, on no less than 4 occassions, to remove reliably sourced content through edit-warring.---
 * 3) IP in question continues to make ungrounded self-formulated claims and refrains from presenting any sources that would supposedly cover these claims.
 * Any further disruptive conduct should be reported at ANI or the 3RR noticeboard. - LouisAragon (talk) 17:28, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

mismatch with the source
there is no match with the contents of reference and word of persianate — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.235.92.88 (talk) 18:57, 27 December 2018 (UTC)

 * There is now. And FYI(for your information), Persianate is not an ethnicity, but a culture.--Kansas Bear (talk) 22:06, 28 December 2018 (UTC)

Language usage
Per WikiNutt; The source given makes no mention of Azerbaijani being restricted to anything, the source states that Sultan Yaʿqub used Azerbaijani in poetry, nothing more. Since the source only mentions poetry I can only state poetry, if the source said court, official, numismatic, et.al., then those could be added. As for Arabic, why ask for a source for this language yet delete the source that confirms Azerbaijani? --Kansas Bear (talk) 05:53, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * "there's no evidence within the cited material which indicates that the Azerbaijani language was restricted to poetry only. Proper citations should also be provided which state in clear English that Arabic language was widely spoken or a state language."

AND, a cursory search of the source shows only one hit for "Aqqoyunlu". This is the one that states Sultan Ya'qub wrote poetry in Azeri Turkish. If you have source(s) that state the Aq Qoyunlu used Azeri Turkish in other capacities then feel free to post them here. --Kansas Bear (talk) 06:43, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

The article insinuates that the Azerbaijani language was only used strictly for poetry. The cited material does not imply at all, that the Azerbaijani language was restricted to poetry usage only. There seems to be a strong sense of identity politics at play in this article and I'm questioning the impartiality of the individuals editing this page. The article which backs the claim that this dynasty is a "Persianite" dynasty is none other than "Encyclopedia Iranica (Iranicaonline.org)", the citation stating ″With the conquest of Iran, not only did the Āq Qoyunlū center of power shift eastward, but Iranian influences were soon brought to bear on their method of government and their culture″. If you look beyond the label "Persianite", you'll come to realize quickly that this superficial label only ascribes the notion that this dynasty adopted Persian traits from the subjects they ruled over, but are at essence a Turkic dynasty. The Persian language is not a native language for Turkic peoples. This Turkic tribe, the Aq Qoyunlu, spoke the Turkic language (Azerbaijani dialect) as their native-tongue. I have added citations being needed for Arabic being included in the list of Common Languages. As for Azerbaijani being listed under the Common Languages section but with the caveat that it was spoken only in poetry, I advise to be deleted from the picture.

Pages 47-79 (translated by Scott Bean) from the source "Herat to Shiraz: The Unique Manuscript of Ali Shir Nawai's Poetry from Aq Qoyunlu Circle" describes that the poem language of the Aq Qoyunlu was a partially adapted Oghuz dialect of the Turkic language (presuming to be Azerbaijani), a language that prevailed throughout the entire Aq Qoyunlu state. — Preceding unsigned comment added by WikiNutt (talk • contribs) 09:00, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

 * "There seems to be a strong sense of identity politics at play in this article..."
 * Which identity would that be?

 * "..and I'm questioning the impartiality of the individuals editing this page."
 * LMAO. Compared to edit-warring, removal of a reference and referenced quote, not to mention your removal of a reference and referenced information from another article? You would do well to concern yourself with your own impartiality!
 * From the source you provided, minus your interpretation...

"Although art experts were aware of this manuscript, Uzbek literature experts were unaware of it, and this manuscript was not the object of research in terms of the collection's structure and passing on the text of poems that for example, was adapted to the Oghuz Turkic that prevailed in the Aq Qoyunlu state." --Aftandil Erkinov, « From Herat to Shiraz: the Unique Manuscript (876/1471) of ‘Alī Shīr Nawā’ī’s Poetry from Aq Qoyunlu Circle », Cahiers d’Asie centrale, 24 | 2015, page 49.
 * I am not sure what is stated here would qualify Oghuz Turkic as lingua franca. --Kansas Bear (talk) 16:34, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Yeah it's kinda vague, but it doesn't seem so imo. Surely it would have at least been mentioned by sources like Islamica and such? It is a pretty major thing after all. --HistoryofIran (talk) 17:04, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * If you or Beshogur want to read the source. I used the pdf version which worked fine for me. --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:35, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * there is not a "pre Azerbaijani language" such as Old Anatolian Turkish, thus scholars call it Azerbaijani. Sure Aq Qoyunlu spoke the proto version of it, but I also doubt that Aq Qoyunlu back then called their language Azerbaijani. Book of Dede Korkut, which is supposedly written during Aq Qoyunlu era, embracing Oghuz identity strongly.
 * It was not earlier than the 15th century. Based on the fact that the author is buttering up both the Akkoyunlu and Ottoman rulers, it has been suggested that the composition belongs to someone living in the undefined border region lands between the two states during the reign of Uzun Hassan (1466–78). G. Lewis on the hand dates the composition 'fairly early in the 15th century at least'.
 * According to Lewis (1974), an older substratum of these oral traditions dates to conflicts between the ancient Oghuz and their Turkish rivals in Central Asia (the Pecheneks and the Kipchaks), but this substratum has been clothed in references to the 14th-century campaigns of the Akkoyunlu Confederation of Turkic tribes against the Georgians, the Abkhaz, and the Greeks in Trebizond. Such stories and songs would have emerged no earlier than the beginning of the 13th century, and the written versions that have reached us would have been composed no later than the beginning of the 15th century.
 * Oghuz Turkic is indeed the lingua franca but I can't say much if the term Oghuz Turkic as lingua france is going to appropriate or not. Beshogur (talk) 18:26, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

 * Well, It appears WikiNutt will not be back for a week.
 * As for whether the Aq Qoyunlu called their language Azeribaijani or not, would fall outside our area of concern, since we can only add what the source(s) states.
 * If Oghuz Turkic is their lingua franca then we need a source stating that. If we had a scholarly source stating Oghuz Turkic is referred to as Azeri Turkish by modern academics that would bridge the gap(so to speak). --Kansas Bear (talk) 18:54, 9 December 2020 (UTC)
 * For two centuries after their appearance in Iran, the Oghuz Turks seem to have had only an oral literature. The origins of the stories attributed to Dädä Qorqut, which are about the heroic age of the Oghuz Turks, probably lie back in this period. The accepted text, however, was compiled only in the 15th century. A written, classical Azeri Turkish literature began after the Mongol invasion, and developed strongly in the 16th century after the Safavid dynasty established its dominance in Iran. although it doesn't directly state that. Beshogur (talk) 19:39, 9 December 2020 (UTC)

 * , your thoughts? I do not believe we have enough to cover the gap of Oghuz Turkish = Azerbaijani Turkish. And since I have already been accused of WP:OR, I would rather be more careful.--Kansas Bear (talk) 02:12, 10 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Tbh I didn't even get the part on how they are the same, so I agree with Kansas Bear atm. --HistoryofIran (talk) 16:55, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

 * "Well, it appears WikiNutt will not be back for a week." Yes, I was accused by "someone" in this same thread of being another user so that they could get me permanently banned, probably because they don't like hearing differing views. I've already talked to a couple Wikipedia admins, proven my identity, and am trying to see if I can get others admins involved in regards to me being unjustifiably blocked from editing for an entire week. I reached out to the admin who issued the block in person, and he never responded to my inquiries. So congratulations to that "someone" for simply creating problems. With respect to what I wanted to originally discuss (now that I'm able to), the abstract entry on the page in clear English states that the Oghuz dialect of the Turkic language was a prevailing language across the Aq Qoyunlu state. All I hear now is mental gymnastics and coping as to why that shouldn't be accepted. I want to reiterate, that my primary and only dispute, is the mere fact that the article directly insinuates that the Azerbaijani language was used strictly in poetry, hence being labeled in the Common Language section as "Azerbaijani (poetry)" and now it's insinuating the same for the Persian language. "Someone" is not making things clear for readers! WikiNutt (talk) 07:42, 17 December 2020 (UTC)

Identity of Qaraqoyunlu and Aqqoyunlu

"As a result of the rule of the Qaraqoyunlu and Aqqoyunlu Turkman in the region, many Turkman tribes moved there, and the rest of them established the Safavid state in Iran. Today, part of the important heritage they have given us is Gunchikhan Oghuz or Turkman, which is used in certain regions of Gunchikhan Anatolia - mainly in Igdir and Kars - as well as in Iran and Azerbaijan, which are now called Azerbaijani.

Source: M. Behramnejâd, "Karakoyunlus, Akkoyunlus: Turkmen Dynasties in Iran and Anatolia", p. 14 Aydın memmedov2000 (talk) 22:46, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Arabic
Why do we need a source for that? They pretty much controlled all of Iraq. Either we remove it completely or add ¨(popular)¨. Beshogur (talk) 15:52, 22 January 2021 (UTC)

 * I would assume since they were Muslims they used Arabic in a religious capacity. And I can add a source that Uzun Hasan translated religious texts from Arabic to Turkish[sic]. Have to do that after work. --Kansas Bear (talk) 17:21, 22 January 2021 (UTC)
 * TDV IA says he translated Quran into Turkish. Beshogur (talk) 20:40, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Turkish or Azerbaijani Turkish? The source I found just says "Turkish". So would that be Ottoman Turkish? --Kansas Bear (talk) 20:45, 28 May 2021 (UTC)
 * My humble opinion is that it was most probably some form of transitional Oghuz Turkic spoken in the area corresponding to the present-day Iranian Azerbaijan, with linguistic structures peculiar to Eastern Turkic (perhaps, the legacy from the former homeland of the Oghuz - Central Asia). The best source to support this claim is the Gonbad manuscript of the Kitab-e Dede Qorqut. -- Visioncurve Timendi causa est nescire  05:54, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Türkçe simply means "Turkish", "Turkic" or could mean any other Turkic language. wasn't Gonbad manuscript written during the Qajar era, which also had Chagatay influence? If anyone wonders how Turkish sounded spoken in Aq Qoyunlu: Choq shükür khudāya ki istädüyimizi bulduq. Honestly, it looks a mix of Azerbaijani and Turkish. It's about the decree of az:Sultan Qasım, who ruled Diyarbakir. The author also notes on the very striking mixture of Mongol (not to cause confusion, only loanwords), Turkic, Arabic and Persian terms in the letter. Maybe soon I'll try to make a language section for this article. Historians only vaguely use the term Azeri or Turkish.  also found something: The king's title (right top) and the Arabic quotations are in gold. Should this be enough to prove Arabic is also used in their documents alongside Turkish and Persian? Beshogur (talk) 08:51, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

what do you mean it's not a proof? From the diplomatic point of view, the document (perhaps called hukm "order", see addition p. 960) consists of (a) the king's titles and tamgha, (b) the text of the grant, and (c) the endorsement on the verso. plus it's not some words: The chart uses an Arabic expression marfu al-qalam maqsur al-qadam also various Quranic verses were used in the decree (see page 934). Beshogur (talk) 14:46, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * This is what the source states in its very first page "The story of the Persian document which forms the subject of the present article is not devoid of romance." Quranic verses in a Islamic society is not something new, and does not imply that Arabic was used for diplomacy, when the source literally says what language the work was in. Sorry, but this is WP:OR. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:05, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * And no, I do not agree with the addition to the infobox. It does not make sense, considering the article states that the Aq Qoyunlu ended in 1503. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:18, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Doesn't make sence because the infobox template has a post event section. Mentioning these rump state is worthy. Beshogur (talk) 15:21, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I'm not sure I get your first sentence. Anyways, the source does not even mention that the Aq Qoyunlu ended in 1508 either, but 1501-03, just like vast majority of sources. You essentialy did your first edit, but added it somewhere else in the infobox. --HistoryofIran (talk) 15:23, 29 May 2021 (UTC)
 * I meant your comment. Anyways, the source does not even mention that the Aq Qoyunlu ended in 1508 either, but 1501-03, just like vast majority of sources. which one? You essentialy did your first edit, but added it somewhere else in the infobox. what do you mean, which edit? Beshogur (talk) 15:27, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Changing the structure of this article
Hello, I had done edits to the German Wiki version of this article quite a while ago and would like to apply some of them on the English article. I suggest changing the structure of the article. Instead of including "Origins" and "Myth" into the "history" chapter, I would dedicate a special chapter for the aforementioned. The table of contents thus would look like this:

1) Origins and Myth 2) History a) Consolidation of Rule under Qara Osman b) Rise to Power under Uzun Hasan c) Stagnation and Downfall

Of course, I'd add all relevant sources, too. Is it possible/allowed that I make such a change? TengriKhagan (talk) 12:45, 31 March 2022 (UTC)

About The Meaning
Despite what mentioned in the article "The name Aq Qoyunlu, literally meaning "[those with] white sheep"", Aq = white, Qoyun = Male sheep, lu = -y for making adjective from noun!

litteraly means One/Those who has/have withe sheeps!

There are more samples of using Livestock's name for naming tribes in Turkik tribes. For Instance, there are 2 main tribes in Qajar tribe: Davallo and Qoyunlu. Davvali (Deve + lu, means One who has Camels). Qoyunlu (Qoyun + lu, means One who has Sheeps).

Reference

Source
Hello. This source seems to fail WP:VER: Агаев, Юсиф; Ахмедов, Сабухи (2006). Ак-Коюнлу-Османская война. ISBN 5-8066-1372-0. What is it? Where it is from? It doesn't strike me as WP:RS either. --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:58, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

 * could you please elaborate and give more constructive argument?
 * this is a historical book, with deep research of War between Ak-Koyunlu and Ottomans. The authors of the book are great academicians. They did thorough research and in fact they are specialized in this topic OrkhanScience (talk) 09:06, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I’m not sure what you mean. I am being constructive and following the guidelines, please assume WP:GF. Could you please answer my questions? Who are the authors and their qualifications, the name of the publisher, and what language is it in? Azeri in the Cyrilic alphabet? I would also like to remind you of WP:SPS. --HistoryofIran (talk) 12:33, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I don't know why Wiki's ISBN search book doesn't give the result,
 * but here is the link to the Book
 * https://books.google.com/books/about/%D0%90%D0%BA_%D0%9A%D0%BE%D1%8E%D0%BD%D0%BB%D1%83_%D0%9E%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%B0%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B0%D1%8F_%D0%B2.html?id=titbOAAACAAJ
 * I am adding the bibliographic information so you can check it yourself in google
 * Bibliographic information
 * Title
 * Ак-Коюнлу - Османская война: 1472-1473 годы
 * Authors: I︠U︡sif Agaev, Säbuhi Ähmädov
 * Publisher Ėlm, 2006
 * ISBN 5806613720, 9785806613722
 * Length 125 pages OrkhanScience (talk) 18:42, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Also attaching here the CV of the author, Sabuhi Ahmadov, sho is a professor at Khazar Unversity of Azerbaijan
 * https://khazar.org/uploads/schools/Humanities/History_and_Archaeology/cv/Sabuhi_Ahmadov-cv.pdf OrkhanScience (talk) 19:07, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I don't see anything that suggest that this is WP:RS, especially when it's published by Azerbaijan, very well known for its historical negationism. Fortunately we don't lack in WP:RS regarding the Aq Qoyunlu. --HistoryofIran (talk) 19:32, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
 * With all due respect yet you have not provided an evidence that this resources is "unreliable". You statement is based on very wrong stereotype about the whole Country and its academics.
 * Is it really how you judge the academical work? You really judge based on the origins of the academics or country of the published book? It is quite strong accusation and I would say "profiling" OrkhanScience (talk) 21:00, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Please address my concern instead. --HistoryofIran (talk) 21:02, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
 * I addressed it. it looks like the Army structure of Aq Qoyunlu I created and try to get rid of it by any means. You referred that the source is not working, Then i proved you that this book exists and provided you the credentials of the authors. Then you started talking about "books being published in Azerbaijan unreliable". What is your problem? OrkhanScience (talk) 21:08, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Could you please adress my concern in regards to historical negationism? Why we should use this source published from a questionable place, when there are many other opinions? --HistoryofIran (talk) 22:47, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Forget what I said, the info isn't controversial, so I guess it wouldn't hurt to have it. What does dilavers, sarvars, mekhtars, Iranzemin askers mean? --HistoryofIran (talk) 23:01, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
 * those are types of army units that time.
 * Also I added an additional source
 * and added url for the first source OrkhanScience (talk) 10:12, 27 July 2022 (UTC)

Origin of the Aq Qoyunlu
Last time you blocked me on wikipedia, but the fact is that Azerbaijan with White Sheep is history. Ag Koyunlular spoke Azerbaijan language.I would make corrections again, but you will delete it again, so I will write it here. and please respect what I write and don't touch! In the early Middle Ages, white sheep were spread over a wide area in the South Caucasus, in the area between the Caucasus Mountains and the Araz River, around Goycha Lake, in the Alagoz grasslands, as well as in the southern regions of Azerbaijan, Eastern Anatolia, Western Iran, the Tigris and Euphrates valley

The Aggoyun people belonged to the Bayandur clan of the Oguz. Their names are given as "Bayandur Khan boys" in Turkic-language sources, and "Bayanduriyya" in Persian-language sources The word "Bayandur" in the ancient Turkic language means "a place that is always full of blessings". The name Bayandur comes from Bayandur, the eldest son of Goy Khan, one of the sons of Oghuz Khan. Ag goyunuls considered themselves descendants of Bayandur Khan.

At the time of Hamza Bey, the Bayandur stamp was stamped on Aggoyunlu coins. During the period of Uzun Hasan and his successors, the Bayandur stamp was again printed on coins as a sign of the state. This stamp was also used on the Ag goyunlu flag and inscriptions Beginning with long Hasan, the Aggoyunlu rulers were masters of science and art. Uzun Hasan gathered the most advanced scholars of his time in his palace. Up to 60 scholars worked in the ruler's private library. calligraphy (calligraphy) and miniature painting were among the attention-grabbing areas of Azerbaijani cultural life of this period. In the palace libraries of Aggoyunlu rulers, scientific, artistic, philosophical, religious, and historical works were copied, and miniatures were drawn on their manuscripts. 4 miniature illustrations drawn on the manuscript of poet Hidayat's "Divan" were compiled by Sultan Khalil in 1478. This manuscript copy is in AZERBAİJAN language During this period, skilled calligraphers such as Mirali Tabrizi, Mirabullah Tabrizi, Suleyman Ali Yaqubi, Nizamuddin Ali Ardabili, Jafar Tabrizi, Azhar Tabrizi, Abdurrahim al-Yaqubi worked in different cities of Azerbaijan. For a long time, a scientific assembly consisting of prominent scientists of the time was active in Hasan's palace. Uzun Hasan translated the Holy Quran into AZERBAİJAN langugae and wrote an Oghuzname called "Kitabi-Diyarbakriya" to Abu Bakr al-Tehrani, a prominent scientist of the time. Fazlullah ibn Ruzbehan Khunji came to Tabriz in 1487 in Sultan Yaqub's palace and started writing the history of Aggoyunlu stat. Kitabi Deda Gorgud Dastani, which is believed to have been written during the Ag Goyunlu, is also included in the list of intangible heritage of Azerbaijan by UNESCO.In 1998, the Republic of Azerbaijan and UNESCO nominated, and in 2000 celebrated, the "One thousand three hundredth anniversary of the epic poem Kitab-i Dede Qorqud". In 1999 the National Bank of Azerbaijan minted gold and silver commemorative coins for the 1,300th anniversary of the epic. The epic culture, folk tales and music of Dede Qorqud has been included in the Representative List of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity of UNESCO in November 2018. 5.191.24.17 (talk) 12:06, 30 June 2023 (UTC)

Legislature
This is an extremely incorrect characterization of the Aq Qoyulu political organization. The Kengač was a council that decided on military and successive issues, it was made up of tribal chiefs AND amirs. The current table uses the term for tribal chiefs as if it was a separate military council, this is a hilarious misreading of a citation. I move that this be changed immediately. 2001:1970:5163:1200:0:0:0:7C5D (talk) 03:12, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Can you elaborate? What do you propose instead? Beshogur (talk) 15:47, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 October 2023
Fix typo. History section under Ahmad Beg line 7 from bottom, Change Lahija to Lahijan. 5.125.244.218 (talk) 11:32, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅. Beshogur (talk) 15:54, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

Aq Qoyunlu kings used the tile "King of Iran"
The article already mentions that Uzun Hasan assumed the title "King of Iran" and was referred to as such by Ottoman rulers. But this seems to be a general pattern among Aq Qoyunlu rulers as stated by Encyclopedia Iranica:

 * It must be remembered that the title of the king of Iran was also used by Āq Quyunlu rulers (the direct predecessors of the Safavids) who presented themselves as successors to the glorious mythical kings of ancient Persia (Faridun, Jamšid, and Kaykāvus). Even Ottoman sultans, when addressing the Āq Quyunlu and Safavid kings, used such titles as the “king of Iranian lands” or the “sultan of the lands of Iran” or “the king of kings of Iran, the lord of the Persians” or the “holders of the glory of Jamšid and the vision of Faridun and the wisdom of Dārā.”

Sysferatu (talk) 10:34, 14 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Aq Qoyunlu


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Gaia, SF society

A Croatian sci-fi/fantasy club, non-notable as far as I can find. (Surely there's multiple sci-fi clubs out there named Gaia, anyway.) Then again, I am not from Osijek, Croatia — maybe it's a big thing over there. :-) • Benc • 10:21, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * A newbie created several other stubs like that, they should all be linked from Science fiction in Croatia. It's not unlikely that many of them are non-notable, dunno. --Joy [shallot]   14:29, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete: Not notable. Geogre 15:09, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete organizational vanity. -- Cyrius|✎ 06:43, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * This should be kept. Don't delete. We have no right to determine what is notable or unnotable. Perhaps this material could be consoldiated into a single article. I feel as though a bias is occuring here just because the subject happens to be in Croatia, a country which rarely enters into the attention of the American public.
 * It's still a bunch of sub-stubs... the originator should have written something about them, otherwise the articles don't provide anything more than their listing in the list of local SF societies does. --Joy [shallot]

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
People's Olympiad

The People's Olympiad (Catalan: Olimpíada Popular, Spanish: Olimpiada Popular) was a planned international multi-sport event that was intended to take place in 1936 in Barcelona, Catalonia within the Spanish Republic. It was conceived as a protest event against the 1936 Summer Olympics being held in Berlin, which was then under control of the Nazi Party.

Despite gaining support from some athletes, and most significantly the Soviet Union and the Communist International organization, the People's Olympiad was never held, as a result of the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War. Fifty-six years later, Barcelona hosted the 1992 Summer Olympics.

The People's Olympiad was the first ever global attempt to boycott a modern Olympics.

Background
In 1931, the International Olympic Committee had selected Berlin, then the capital of the Weimar Republic, to host the 1936 Summer Olympics at the 29th IOC Session in Barcelona. Berlin had defeated Barcelona, which was also vying to host the games, by 43 votes to 16. During the same year, Spain had adopted a republican constitution, with King Alfonso XIII going into exile, and Catalonia was declared an autonomous region within the Spanish Republic.

Following the 1936 general election in Spain, the Catalonia's pro-People's Sports Committee (Catalan: Comitè Català pro-Esport Popular, CCPEP), supported by the Government of Catalonia, as well as by the newly elected Spanish Popular Front government, advocated for the boycott of Spain to the Berlin Olympics in Nazi Germany and the organization of an alternative games in Barcelona. Invitations were made to many different countries, and it was planned to use the hotels built for the 1929 Barcelona International Exposition as an Olympic-style Village. The games were scheduled to be held from July 19 to 26 and would have therefore ended six days prior to the start of the Berlin games. In addition to the usual sporting events, the Barcelona games would also have featured chess, folkdancing, music and theatre.

A total of 6,000 athletes from 49 nations registered for the games. The largest contingents of athletes came from the United States, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Belgium, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Norway, Sweden and French Algeria. There were also teams from Germany and Italy made up of political exiles from those countries. Teams representing Jewish exiles, Alsace, Catalonia (the host), Galicia, and the Basque Country also registered. The Soviet Union, under the rule of Joseph Stalin, had been holding its own version of the Olympics, known as the Spartakiad, organised by Red Sport International. Despite this, the Soviets agreed to attend the Barcelona competition.

Many of the athletes were sent by trade unions, workers' clubs and associations, socialist and communist parties, and left-wing groups, rather than by state-sponsored committees.

With the outbreak of the Spanish Civil War just as the games were to begin, the alternate games were hastily cancelled. Some athletes never made it to Barcelona as the borders had been closed, while many who were in the city for the beginning of the games made a hasty exit. However, at least 200 of the athletes, such as Clara Thalmann, remained in Spain and joined workers' militias that were organized to defend the Second Spanish Republic against the nationalists.

Opening ceremony, lodging and competition
The proposed opening ceremony of the Olympiad included the parades of exiled Jews from Europe, as well as of people from North Africa under colonization, representing state and stateless nations. A song composed by a German Jew whose lyrics would be written by a Catalan poet would play in the background of the ceremony. Women would be allowed to compete at more games than the International Olympic Committee did at the time, in Berlin.

There was no Olympic Village-like complex available due to the time shortness – of three months – to plan the Olympiad. As a result of that, athletes first had to stay in hotels and hostels and then in the reassigned Hotel Olympic. Unforeseen greater visiting audiences for the games forced the Catalan government to try and to find more lodging for athletes in a rush.

title: People's Olympiad


text: Category:Regions of the Czech Republic

title: Category:Regions of the Czech Republic


text:
Hugo Claus

Hugo Maurice Julien Claus (5 April 1929 – 19 March 2008) was a leading Belgian author who published under his own name as well as various pseudonyms. Claus' literary contributions spanned the genres of drama, novels, and poetry; he also left a legacy as a painter and film director. He wrote primarily in Dutch, although he also wrote some poetry in English. He won the 2000 International Nonino Prize in Italy.

His death by euthanasia, which is legal in Belgium, led to considerable controversy.

Life
Hugo Claus was born on 5 April 1929 at Sint-Janshospitaal in Bruges, Belgium. He was the eldest of four sons born to Jozef Claus and Germaine Vanderlinden. Jozef worked as a printer but was also fond of theatre.

Hugo was educated at a boarding school led by nuns in Aalbeke and experienced the German occupation of Belgium during World War II. The experience was formative, and would later be adapted by Claus into his semi-autobiographical The Sorrow of Belgium (1983). Many of Claus' teachers were Flemish nationalists who were sympathetic to fascism, and Claus joined the pro-German youth wing of the Flemish National Union. His father was also briefly detained after the Liberation for collaborationism. A sympathizer of the political left at a more mature period in his life, Claus lauded the socialist model after a visit to Cuba in the 1960s.

Claus' prominence in literary circles and his debut as a novelist came in 1950, with the publication of his De Metsiers at age twenty-one. His first published poems had in fact been printed by his father as early as 1947. He lived in Paris from 1950 until 1952, where he met many of the members of the CoBrA art movement.

From February 1953 until the beginning of 1955, Hugo Claus lived in Italy where his girlfriend Elly Overzier (born in 1928) acted in a few films. They were married on 26 May 1955, and had a son, Thomas, on 7 October 1963. In the early 1970s, he had an affair with actress Sylvia Kristel, who was 23 years younger, with whom he had a son, Arthur, in 1975. They lived in the Raamgracht 5–7 building in Amsterdam. The relationship ended in 1977, when she left him for actor Ian McShane.

He was a "contrarian", of "anarchist spirit". Journalist Guy Duplat recalls that Claus had organized in Knokke the election of a "Miss Knokke Festival", which was a typical beauty contest, except for the Claus ruling that the members of the all-male jury would have to be naked.

Literary career
Hugo Claus was considered to be one of the most important contemporary Belgian authors. Claus published the novel Schola Nostra (1971) under the pseudonym Dorothea Van Male. He also used the pseudonyms Jan Hyoens and Thea Streiner. The 1962 De verwondering (The Astonishment) and the 1983 Het verdriet van België (The Sorrow of Belgium) rank among Claus' most significant works as a novelist. Lee views Het verdriet van België as a postmodern critique of national identity.

Most prolific in literary endeavours as a dramatist, Claus wrote 35 original pieces and 31 translations from English, Greek, Latin, French and Spanish plays and novels. His dramatic sketch Masscheroen was first staged at Knokke Casino and featured an all-nude cast: three naked men were given the task of portraying the Christian Holy Trinity of God the father, God the son, and the Holy Spirit; the work also made light of the Holy Virgin, a Belgian saint, and the Three Wise Men. Attacked as blasphemous and deleterious to the public's moral well-being, the light-hearted play's performance triggered a notable legal case in which Claus was prosecuted: convicted on charges of public indecency, Claus was ordered to pay a ten-thousand-Belgian franc fine and serve a four-month prison sentence. The prison term was reduced to a suspended sentence after a public outcry.

Claus also wrote the script of a satirical comic strip, "De Avonturen van Belgman" ("The Adventures of Belgian Man") in 1967, which spoofed the Belgian bi-lingual troubles. The strip itself was drawn by artist Hugoké (Hugo de Kempeneer).

Hugo Claus' name had been put forward many times for the Nobel Prize in literature, on which he would casually comment "this prize money would suit me fine".

Painting and film
As a painter, Claus was a participant in the CoBrA art movement from 1950. He had developed friendships with some of its members and illustrated a book by Pierre Alechinsky in 1949. He collaborated with key figures in the movement including Karel Appel and Corneille and participated in some exhibitions. He later used his experiences of this time in his book Een zachte vernieling (Mild Destruction).

Claus directed seven films between 1964 and 2001. His film Het sacrament was screened in the Un Certain Regard section at the 1990 Cannes Film Festival.

Death
Claus suffered from Alzheimer's disease and requested his life to be terminated through euthanasia, a legal procedure in Belgium, at the Middelheim Hospital in Antwerp on 19 March 2008.

Bert Anciaux, then Flemish Minister of Culture, stated "I knew him well enough to know that he wanted to depart with pride and dignity." Former Belgian Prime Minister Guy Verhofstadt said that he imagined the onset of Alzheimer's must have been "inevitable and unbearable torture". "I can live with the fact that he decided thus," he said, "because he left us as a great glowing star, right on time, just before he would have collapsed into a Stellar black hole."

His death by euthanasia has received criticism from the Roman Catholic Church and the Belgian Alzheimer League. The Roman Catholic Church criticized the media coverage; Belgian Cardinal Godfried Danneels referred to Claus' euthanasia in his Easter Homily. The Belgian Alzheimer League respects Claus' decision, but believes the media coverage of his death neglects other options for Alzheimer's patients.

Prizes
Amongst others:
 * 1950 – Leo J. Krynprijs for De Metsiers
 * 1952 – Arkprijs van het Vrije Woord for De Metsiers
 * 1964 – August Beernaertprize for De verwondering
 * 1965 – Henriëtte Roland Holst-prize for all his plays
 * 1967 – Edmond Hustinxprize for all his plays
 * 1979 – Constantijn Huygens Prize
 * 1985 – Cestoda-prize
 * 1986 – Herman Gorterprize for Alibi
 * 1986 – Prijs der Nederlandse Letteren
 * 1994 – Prijs voor Meesterschap for his complete oeuvre
 * 1994 – VSB Poetry Prize for De Sporen
 * 1997 – Libris Prize for De Geruchten
 * 1998 – Aristeion Prize for De Geruchten
 * 2000 – International Nonino Prize for La sofferenza del Belgio

title: Hugo Claus


text:
Draft:F-Script (programming language)

F-Script is an object-oriented scripting programming language for Apple's macOS operating system developed by Philippe Mougin. F-Script is an interactive language based on Smalltalk, using macOS's native Cocoa API.

Overview
F-Script is based on a pure object paradigm: every entity manipulated within the language is an object. Its base syntax and concepts are identical to those of the language Smalltalk (the canonical example of an object-oriented language) with specific extensions to support array programming as in the language APL.

F-Script provides an interpreted, interactive environment with support for workspaces, which provide a rich set of functions including object persistence, distributed objects, graphical user interface (GUI) framework, database access, among other things.

Syntax
Like Smalltalk, F-Script's syntax is very simple, without requiring specific notation for control structures which are provided in a unified manner by the  operation. Unlike Smalltalk, F-Script provides specific notational extensions to support the  class, using curly brackets to describe literal arrays, which may contain any F-Script expressions.

For example,  is a valid array literal. The empty array is denoted by. Arrays of arrays are supported transparently, since any array is just another object.

Message sending
Message expressions in F-Script are similar to those in Smalltalk: they specify which object is the receiver of the message, which operation is called by the message, and any argument objects needed by the operation. F-Script supports unary, binary, and keyword messages. F-Script message semantics are extended to support array programming by recognizing that an array operation, such as adding to numerical vectors, must be viewed as generating a number of messages relating the elements of the vectors involved

Thus, if  and , then F-Script allows.

Usage
F-Script is chiefly used as a lightweight scripting layer on top of macOS's Cocoa application programming interface (API). It can be embedded in applications using the F-Script framework and Interface Builder palettes. It can also be used interactively from the F-Script interpreter to prototype applications. Finally, it can be used to explore applications' object hierarchies using an injector such as F-Script Anywhere.

Forks
The original F-script development by Philippe Mougin stopped at version 2.1 in 2011. Ilya Kulakov (Kentzo) took over the FScript.org website and updated the program to work with Mac OS X 10.7 through 10.10 until version 2.3 of 2014, building off Jonathan Mitchell's modernization work. Kulakov noted that as F-Script ties deeply into the system, the code must be changed to reflect the framework available in each Mac OS X release. The last update to this chain of work was done in 2018, by Wolfgang Baird, who updated F-Script to work with Mac OS X 10.12.

title: Draft:F-Script (programming language)


text:
Talk:Ewe language

Untitled
In linguistic literature, Ewe is designated Ewe, not Éwé. Native speakers of Ewe would also write just 'Ewe', following the common orthography which excludes most tones from appearing in writing. I think this article should adopt this way of writing. (Since I'm a newbie, I haven't figured out how to change the name of an article and I'm not aware of possible domino effects that might occur when I would do it. I'll confine myself for now to changing Éwé to Ewe inside the article)

strangeloop 10:46, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Oh well, I moved it anyhow, since I read that moving would not cause a domino effect. I've also changed the links from the pages that link to here.

strangeloop 10:49, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Writing system, status & official usage
On the writing system, I'm not sure it is accurate to say that any language "uses the African Reerence Alphabet" as the latter was just a guideline based on usage. In the case of Ewe, its use of various extended Latin characters was established well before 1979 when I first encountered the language in Togo; the ARA was adopted in 1978.

On Status, I thought it would be helpful to have a heading under which to mention legal status of the language as well as use in education, press, etc. Consider it a stub section - modification of the heading category to something better is invited. --A12n 17:36, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

Ewe language template
If you are a native speaker of Ewe then you can help translate this template into your own language:

To the template

--Amazonien (talk) 21:37, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

Native name
The native name seems to be “Eʋegbe” rather than “Ɛ̀ʋɛ̀gbè”, see Ewe Wikipedia, French Wikipedia and Basic Ewe for foreign students (Institut für Afrikanistik der Universität zu Köln, p. 206).--Nil Blau (talk) 23:40, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Number of speakers
The Ethnologue entry for Ewe claims that it has 3,112,000 speakers. Does anyone have a citation for the numbers currently listed in the article (approximately 6 million, with 2,000,000 second language speakers)? If not, we should change it to reflect the Ethnologue entry. --N-k (talk) 14:51, 8 April 2011 (UTC)

 * UCLA list "3-5 million". There may be a confusion between Ewe proper and the former, now deprecated use of Ewe for what is now called Gbe. Jalwikip (talk) 12:48, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Changed it to three million, as the ref was actually to the 3 mil of Ethnologue. Jalwikip (talk) 13:09, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

Help with identifying Ewe song?
I've asked a question at the Language reference desk asking to identify the words of a song which I believe may be in Ewe. Can anyone watching this page stop by to try and confirm whether this could be the case? --dragfyre_ ʞןɐʇ c 15:50, 12 May 2011 (UTC)

Extended
This article should be greatly extended. E.g. Felix Ameka's theses is a very comprehensive grammar, including a few pages on phonology, but is used only to support the SVO-ness of Ewe?? Unfortunately, I do not have the time currently. Jalwikip (talk) 13:25, 10 December 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 4 external links on Ewe language. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060318005230/http://archive.phonetics.ucla.edu/Language/EWE/EWE.html to http://archive.phonetics.ucla.edu/Language/EWE/EWE.html
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071223022701/http://classweb.gmu.edu/accent/nl-ipa/eweipa.html to http://classweb.gmu.edu/accent/nl-ipa/eweipa.html

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External links modified
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"Pragmatics" section.
"Ewe has phrases of overt politeness, such as meɖekuku (meaning "please") and akpe (meaning "thank you")."

What is remarkable enough about this to warrant its inclusion?? Almost all languages have words (or phrases) that mean "please" and "thank you"! More importantly, why on earth would pragmatics be included in the section on phonology? I considered just removing it, but I figured someone else may be able to integrate this better into the article as I'm reluctant to simply delete true information in a small article, regardless of how trivial it may seem. Janadume (talk) 18:29, 19 November 2019 (UTC)

Number of Native Speakers
The current number of native speakers listed on the page, 20 million, seems much higher than most estimates. The site was recently paywalled, but at of 2019 Ethnologue lists there to be roughly 3.9 million native speakers and I would be surprised if that number was much different than in 2022. I understand that the source used seems legitimate, but it goes against most other sources used, such as our Gbe languages page.  Sam Walczak  Talk / Edits 22:45, 18 April 2022 (UTC)

 * IPs seem intent on edit warring to change this to 20 million, so I've requested semi-protection. Jfire (talk) 17:37, 7 February 2024 (UTC)
 * The combined population of Ewe speakers in Ghana, Togo, Benin, and Nigeria alone surpassed 10 million in 2023. It's puzzling that ethnologue reports only 5 million native speakers. It would be helpful if they provided their sources for verification. Thank you. Enalasie (talk) 09:10, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * It may all be exactly as you say. Provide a reliable source (which needs to be more credible than a blog post), and you can change the number to whatever that reliable source says. Until then, Ethnologue is our most reliable source. Examples of a reliable source would be a recent census, or other official government statistics, or a recent published grammar of Ewe. It is not enough to make reference to "what everyone knows." How, for example, do you know about the 2023 Ewe population in Togo, Ghana, Benin and Nigeria? If this comes from a credible source, you are most welcome to present this here. LandLing 10:11, 8 February 2024 (UTC)
 * BTW, for the Ewe-speaking population of Ghana Ethnologue quotes UNSD (2013) as their source, which states 3.3 million L1 speakers. The rest of the Ewe population therefore resides in Togo, and very few in Benin. Based on what do you assume an Ewe population in Nigeria? I hope you're not counting the Fon language as part of Ewe. LandLing 10:36, 8 February 2024 (UTC)

Ewe Grammar
Taking about tenses, aspects, and moods in Ewe, these guys have an idea that there are tenses in Ewe: https://www.mustgo.com/worldlanguages/ewe/ This PDF here might be more useful: https://pure.mpg.de/rest/items/item_855570/component/file_855731/content https://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED028444.pdf https://www.mun.ca/linguistics/media/production/memorial/academic/faculty-of-humanities-and-social-sciences/linguistics/media-library/more/e-books/Ch10.pdf https://www.persee.fr/doc/aflin_2033-8732_2012_num_18_1_1008 There are search results I found saying that Ewe has moods, but no tenses at all, and one saying that Ewe is "aspect prominent". Kaden Bayne Vanciel (talk) 17:00, 7 September 2023 (UTC)

Consonantal Blends
dz, gb, kp, ny, ts Elizanthia (talk) 18:50, 31 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ewe language


text:
Sea surface temperature

Sea surface temperature (or ocean surface temperature) is the temperature of ocean water close to the surface. The exact meaning of surface varies in the literature and in practice. It is usually between 1 mm and 20 m below the sea surface. Sea surface temperatures greatly modify air masses in the Earth's atmosphere within a short distance of the shore. Local areas of heavy snow can form in bands downwind of warm water bodies within an otherwise cold air mass. Warm sea surface temperatures can develop and strengthen cyclones over the ocean. Tropical cyclones can also cause a cool wake. This is due to turbulent mixing of the upper 30 m of the ocean. Sea surface temperature changes during the day. This is like the air above it, but to a lesser degree. There is less variation in sea surface temperature on breezy days than on calm days. The thermohaline circulation has a major impact on average sea surface temperature throughout most of the world's oceans.

Coastal sea surface temperatures can cause offshore winds to generate upwelling, which can significantly cool or warm nearby landmasses, but shallower waters over a continental shelf are often warmer. Onshore winds can cause a considerable warm-up even in areas where upwelling is fairly constant, such as the northwest coast of South America. Its values are important within numerical weather prediction as the sea surface temperature influences the atmosphere above, such as in the formation of sea breezes and sea fog.

It is very likely that global mean sea surface temperature increased by 0.88°C between 1850–1900 and 2011–2020 due to global warming, with most of that warming (0.60°C) occurring between 1980 and 2020. The temperatures over land are rising faster than ocean temperatures. This is because the ocean absorbs about 90% of excess heat generated by climate change.

Definitions
Sea surface temperature (SST), or ocean surface temperature, is the water temperature close to the ocean's surface. The exact meaning of surface varies according to the measurement method used, but it is between 1 mm and 20 m below the sea surface.

The definition proposed by IPCC for sea surface temperature does not specify the number of metres but focuses more on measurement techniques: Sea surface temperature is "the subsurface bulk temperature in the top few metres of the ocean, measured by ships, buoys and drifters. [...] Satellite measurements of skin temperature (uppermost layer; a fraction of a millimetre thick) in the infrared or the top centimetre or so in the microwave are also used, but must be adjusted to be compatible with the bulk temperature."

The temperature further below that is called ocean temperature or deeper ocean temperature. Ocean temperatures (more than 20 metres below the surface) also vary by region and time, and they contribute to variations in ocean heat content and ocean stratification. The increase of both ocean surface temperature and deeper ocean temperature is an important effect of climate change on oceans.

Extent of "surface"
The extent of the ocean surface down into the ocean is influenced by the amount of mixing that takes place between the surface water and the deeper water. This depends on the temperature: in the tropics the warm surface layer of about 100 m is quite stable and does not mix much with deeper water, while near the poles winter cooling and storms makes the surface layer denser and it mixes to great depth and then stratifies again in summer. This is why there is no simple single depth for ocean surface. The photic depth of the ocean is typically about 100 m and is related to this heated surface layer. It can be up to around 200 m deep in the open ocean.

Local variations
The sea surface temperature (SST) has a diurnal range, just like the Earth's atmosphere above, though to a lesser degree due to its greater thermal inertia. On calm days, the temperature can vary by 6 C-change. The temperature of the ocean at depth lags the Earth's atmosphere temperature by 15 days per 10 m, which means for locations like the Aral Sea, temperatures near its bottom reach a maximum in December and a minimum in May and June. Near the coastline, some offshore and longshore winds move the warm waters near the surface offshore, and replace them with cooler water from below in the process known as Ekman transport. This pattern generally increases nutrients for marine life in the region, and can have a profound effect in some regions where the bottom waters are particularly nutrient-rich. Offshore of river deltas, freshwater flows over the top of the denser seawater, which allows it to heat faster due to limited vertical mixing. Remotely sensed SST can be used to detect the surface temperature signature due to tropical cyclones. In general, an SST cooling is observed after the passing of a hurricane, primarily as the result of mixed layer deepening and surface heat losses. In the wake of several day long Saharan dust outbreaks across the adjacent northern Atlantic Ocean, sea surface temperatures are reduced 0.2 C to 0.4 C (0.3 to 0.7 F). Other sources of short-term SST fluctuation include extratropical cyclones, rapid influxes of glacial fresh water and concentrated phytoplankton blooms due to seasonal cycles or agricultural run-off.

The tropical ocean has been warming faster than other regions since 1950, with the greatest rates of warming in the tropical Indian Ocean, western Pacific Ocean, and western boundary currents of the subtropical gyres. However, the eastern Pacific Ocean, subtropical North Atlantic Ocean, and Southern Ocean have warmed more slowly than the global average or have experienced cooling since the 1950s.

Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation
Ocean currents, such as the Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation, can affect sea surface temperatures over several decades. The Atlantic Multidecadal Oscillation (AMO) is an important driver of North Atlantic SST and Northern Hemisphere climate, but the mechanisms controlling AMO variability remain poorly understood. Atmospheric internal variability, changes in ocean circulation, or anthropogenic drivers may control the multidecadal temperature variability associated with AMO. These changes in North Atlantic SST may influence winds in the subtropical North Pacific and produce warmer SSTs in the western Pacific Ocean.

Regional variations

El Niño is defined by prolonged differences in Pacific Ocean surface temperatures when compared with the average value. The accepted definition is a warming or cooling of at least 0.5 °C (0.9 °F) averaged over the east-central tropical Pacific Ocean. Typically, this anomaly happens at irregular intervals of 2–7 years and lasts nine months to two years. The average period length is 5 years. When this warming or cooling occurs for only seven to nine months, it is classified as El Niño/La Niña "conditions"; when it occurs for more than that period, it is classified as El Niño/La Niña "episodes".

The sign of an El Niño in the sea surface temperature pattern is when warm water spreads from the west Pacific and the Indian Ocean to the east Pacific. It takes the rain with it, causing extensive drought in the western Pacific and rainfall in the normally dry eastern Pacific. El Niño's warm rush of nutrient-poor tropical water, heated by its eastward passage in the Equatorial Current, replaces the cold, nutrient-rich surface water of the Humboldt Current. When El Niño conditions last for many months, extensive ocean warming and the reduction in Easterly Trade winds limits upwelling of cold nutrient-rich deep water and its economic impact to local fishing for an international market can be serious.

Among scientists, there is medium confidence that the tropical Pacific will transition to a mean pattern resembling that of El Niño on centennial time scale, but there is still high uncertainty in tropical Pacific SST projections because it is difficult to capture El Niño variability in climate models.

Recent increase due to climate change

Overall, scientists project that all regions of the oceans will warm by 2050, but models disagree for SST changes expected in the subpolar North Atlantic, the equatorial Pacific, and the Southern Ocean. The future global mean SST increase for the period 1995-2014 to 2081-2100 is 0.86°C under the most modest greenhouse gas emissions scenarios, and up to 2.89°C under the most severe emissions scenarios.

Measurement
There are a variety of techniques for measuring this parameter that can potentially yield different results because different things are actually being measured. Away from the immediate sea surface, general temperature measurements are accompanied by a reference to the specific depth of measurement. This is because of significant differences encountered between measurements made at different depths, especially during the daytime when low wind speed and high sunshine conditions may lead to the formation of a warm layer at the ocean's surface and strong vertical temperature gradients (a diurnal thermocline). Sea surface temperature measurements are confined to the top portion of the ocean, known as the near-surface layer.

Thermometers
The sea surface temperature was one of the first oceanographic variables to be measured. Benjamin Franklin suspended a mercury thermometer from a ship while travelling between the United States and Europe in his survey of the Gulf Stream in the late eighteenth century. SST was later measured by dipping a thermometer into a bucket of water that was manually drawn from the sea surface. The first automated technique for determining SST was accomplished by measuring the temperature of water in the intake port of large ships, which was underway by 1963. These observations have a warm bias of around 0.6 C-change due to the heat of the engine room.

Fixed weather buoys measure the water temperature at a depth of 3 m. Measurements of SST have had inconsistencies over the last 130 years due to the way they were taken. In the nineteenth century, measurements were taken in a bucket off a ship. However, there was a slight variation in temperature because of the differences in buckets. Samples were collected in either a wood or an uninsulated canvas bucket, but the canvas bucket cooled quicker than the wood bucket. The sudden change in temperature between 1940 and 1941 was the result of an undocumented change in procedure. The samples were taken near the engine intake because it was too dangerous to use lights to take measurements over the side of the ship at night.

Many different drifting buoys exist around the world that vary in design, and the location of reliable temperature sensors varies. These measurements are beamed to satellites for automated and immediate data distribution. A large network of coastal buoys in U.S. waters is maintained by the National Data Buoy Center (NDBC). Between 1985 and 1994, an extensive array of moored and drifting buoys was deployed across the equatorial Pacific Ocean designed to help monitor and predict the El Niño phenomenon.

Weather satellites
Weather satellites have been available to determine sea surface temperature information since 1967, with the first global composites created during 1970. Since 1982, satellites have been increasingly utilized to measure SST and have allowed its spatial and temporal variation to be viewed more fully. Satellite measurements of SST are in reasonable agreement with in situ temperature measurements. The satellite measurement is made by sensing the ocean radiation in two or more wavelengths within the infrared part of the electromagnetic spectrum or other parts of the spectrum which can then be empirically related to SST. These wavelengths are chosen because they are:

 * 1) within the peak of the blackbody radiation expected from the Earth, and
 * 2) able to transmit adequately well through the atmosphere

The satellite-measured SST provides both a synoptic view of the ocean and a high frequency of repeat views, allowing the examination of basin-wide upper ocean dynamics not possible with ships or buoys. NASA's (National Aeronautic and Space Administration) Moderate Resolution Imaging Spectroradiometer (MODIS) SST satellites have been providing global SST data since 2000, available with a one-day lag. NOAA's GOES (Geostationary Orbiting Earth Satellites) satellites are geo-stationary above the Western Hemisphere which enables them to deliver SST data on an hourly basis with only a few hours of lag time.

There are several difficulties with satellite-based absolute SST measurements. First, in infrared remote sensing methodology the radiation emanates from the top "skin" of the ocean, approximately the top 0.01 mm or less, which may not represent the bulk temperature of the upper meter of ocean due primarily to effects of solar surface heating during the daytime, reflected radiation, as well as sensible heat loss and surface evaporation. All these factors make it somewhat difficult to compare satellite data to measurements from buoys or shipboard methods, complicating ground truth efforts. Secondly, the satellite cannot look through clouds, creating a cool bias in satellite-derived SSTs within cloudy areas. However, passive microwave techniques can accurately measure SST and penetrate cloud cover. Within atmospheric sounder channels on weather satellites, which peak just above the ocean's surface, knowledge of the sea surface temperature is important to their calibration.

Importance to the Earth's atmosphere

Sea surface temperature affects the behavior of the Earth's atmosphere above, so their initialization into atmospheric models is important. While sea surface temperature is important for tropical cyclogenesis, it is also important in determining the formation of sea fog and sea breezes. Heat from underlying warmer waters can significantly modify an air mass over distances as short as 35 km to 40 km. For example, southwest of Northern Hemisphere extratropical cyclones, curved cyclonic flow bringing cold air across relatively warm water bodies can lead to narrow lake-effect snow (or sea effect) bands. Those bands bring strong localized precipitation, often in the form of snow, since large water bodies such as lakes efficiently store heat that results in significant temperature differences—larger than 13 C-change—between the water surface and the air above. Because of this temperature difference, warmth and moisture are transported upward, condensing into vertically oriented clouds which produce snow showers. The temperature decrease with height and cloud depth are directly affected by both the water temperature and the large-scale environment. The stronger the temperature decrease with height, the taller the clouds get, and the greater the precipitation rate becomes.

Tropical cyclones

Ocean temperature of at least 26.5°C (79.7°F) spanning through at minimum a 50-metre depth is one of the precursors needed to maintain a tropical cyclone (a type of mesocyclone). These warm waters are needed to maintain the warm core that fuels tropical systems. This value is well above 16.1 °C (60.9 °F), the long term global average surface temperature of the oceans. However, this requirement can be considered only a general baseline because it assumes that the ambient atmospheric environment surrounding an area of disturbed weather presents average conditions. Tropical cyclones have intensified when SSTs were slightly below this standard temperature.

Tropical cyclones are known to form even when normal conditions are not met. For example, cooler air temperatures at a higher altitude (e.g., at the 500 hPa level, or 5.9 km) can lead to tropical cyclogenesis at lower water temperatures, as a certain lapse rate is required to force the atmosphere to be unstable enough for convection. In a moist atmosphere, this lapse rate is 6.5 °C/km, while in an atmosphere with less than 100% relative humidity, the required lapse rate is 9.8 °C/km.

At the 500 hPa level, the air temperature averages −7 °C (18 °F) within the tropics, but air in the tropics is normally dry at this height, giving the air room to wet-bulb, or cool as it moistens, to a more favorable temperature that can then support convection. A wet-bulb temperature at 500 hPa in a tropical atmosphere of -13.2 C is required to initiate convection if the water temperature is 26.5 C, and this temperature requirement increases or decreases proportionally by 1 °C in the sea surface temperature for each 1 °C change at 500 hpa. Inside a cold cyclone, 500 hPa temperatures can fall as low as -30 C, which can initiate convection even in the driest atmospheres. This also explains why moisture in the mid-levels of the troposphere, roughly at the 500 hPa level, is normally a requirement for development. However, when dry air is found at the same height, temperatures at 500 hPa need to be even colder as dry atmospheres require a greater lapse rate for instability than moist atmospheres. At heights near the tropopause, the 30-year average temperature (as measured in the period encompassing 1961 through 1990) was −77 °C (−132 °F). One example of a tropical cyclone maintaining itself over cooler waters was Epsilon late in the 2005 Atlantic hurricane season.

title: Sea surface temperature