text:
Power Player Super Joy III

The Power Player Super Joy III (also known as Power Joy, Power Games, and XA-76-1E) is a line of handheld Nintendo Entertainment System/Famicom video game console clones. They are notable for legal issues based on the violation of intellectual property rights held by Nintendo and its various game licensees. Manufactured by Sinango, the Power Player line has been sold in North America, Brazil, Europe, Asia, and Australia.

Hardware

The system resembles a Nintendo 64 controller and attaches to a TV set. NTSC, PAL and SECAM versions are available. They all use a custom "NES-on-a-chip" (NOAC) that is an implementation of the NES's hardware such as its custom 6502, PPU, and PAPU.

The units resemble a Nintendo 64 controller, sometimes with a cartridge slot for Famicom games. They come packaged with a secondary 9-pin 6 button controller resembling a Sega Genesis controller, intended for a second player. They are packaged with a 9-pin light gun resembling a Walther PPK pistol. There is a non-moving joystick, added for visual appeal. Though the Power Player Super Joy's button layout is identical to that of the Nintendo 64 controller, the buttons have been mapped differently. The C buttons of the Nintendo 64's controller function as A and B on the Super Joy, the A and B buttons of the Nintendo 64's controller are Start and Select on the Super Joy, respectively. Finally, the N64 controller's Start button is the Reset button on the Super Joy. The units are available in multiple colors, including black, grey, red, and blue.

The consoles have 76 built-in games, although marketing frequently claims to have more than 1,000 ways of playing them. Hence, the game count of 76,000 is listed as a gold sticker on the box. Most of the included games had been originally released for the NES or Famicom, but some have been created by the manufacturer. Most of the games have had their title screen graphics removed to save space on the ROM chip.

There are a number of scenes depicted on the front and back of the boxes, but all of them are artistic stylized drawings or retouched photos—none of them are actual game screenshots. Some versions sold in the US have an unlicensed still image from Star Wars: Episode I – The Phantom Menace on the front of the box.

After this product gained some popularity, the Power Player 3.5, an improved model with more games, was released. A wireless version of Power Games was also released.

The console can possibly have issues where it starts smoldering when turned on.

History
When Nintendo discovered this product line, the company began strong legal action against importers and sellers of the consoles, and have obtained a temporary injunction against the import and sale of video game systems containing counterfeit versions of Nintendo games.

On December 16, 2004, the FBI executed search warrants at two kiosks at the Mall of America in Minnesota and also searched storage facilities rented by Yonatan Cohen, an owner of Perfect Deal LLC of Miami, Florida. The consoles, purchased wholesale at $7 to $9 each, sold for $30 to $70 each. After confiscating 1,800 units of Power Player, each containing 76 copyrighted video game titles belonging primarily to Nintendo or its licensees, Cohen was charged in Minneapolis, Minnesota in January 2005 with federal criminal infringement of copyright for selling Power Player video games at kiosks at the Mall of America and other malls across the nation. In April 2005, Cohen pleaded guilty to selling illegally copied video games.

Nine days after Cohen's guilty plea, 40 FBI agents arrested four Chinese nationals working in an international copyright infringement ring and seized 60,000 Power Player consoles in searches in Brooklyn, Queens, Manhattan, and Maple Shade, New Jersey.

In November 2005, Cohen was sentenced to five years in federal prison and was required to run ads in mall magazines to tell the public how he illegally sold knockoff video games at Mall of America kiosks.

Several shopping malls quit selling these products, though the product was still sold by other dealers such as flea markets.

List of built-in games

 * On version 3.0 of PPSJ, all these items duplicated themselves circa 1,000 times; hence the claim to have 76,000 games built in when the true count is only 76. Version 3.5 has a more honest description and uses the titles once.
 * In the games list, there is a message at the top that says "FUNTIME 76000 IN 1" or "FUNTIME 76 IN 1".
 * Additional games can be played if a Famicom cartridge is inserted, or a NES cartridge is used with an adapter, although some hardware variants require the plastic housing to be trimmed to fit cartridges in the Famicom slot.
 * Many of the game titles in the system menu are abbreviated, misspelled, use alternate names for the game, or are simply wrong (e.g. Burgertime and Tekken). In this list, an effort has been made to use the proper name for the games, with the PPSJ menu name in parentheses for known differences.
 * This game incorporates menu selection sounds from the game Action 52.
 * When the system starts up, the words "FUN TIME" appear flashing on the screen. (This may not show up on LCD TVs because the system gives off a weak TV signal and then improves later during gameplay.)

Built-in games may include the following:
 * 1) 10-Yard Fight (listed as "10YF")
 * 2) 1942
 * 3) Magic Carpet 1001 (listed as "ALADDIN III"), taken directly from the "Caltron/Myriad 6-in-1" cartridge)
 * 4) Antarctic Adventure (listed as "ANTARCTIC")
 * 5) Arkanoid (listed as "ARKONOID")
 * 6) Balloon Fight
 * 7) Baseball
 * 8) Battle City (In the ROM, the title screen says Tank A 1990, Tank M 1990, and Tank N 1990, and in the game selection menu, it is listed manifold times as "DESERT TANK", "SPEED TANK", and "ABRAMS TANK".)
 * 9) Binary Land (listed as "BINARY", and "BINARY LAND" or "BINARY & LAND")
 * 10) Bird Week
 * 11) Bomberman
 * 12) Circus Charlie (listed as "TOY STORY", and "CIRCUS CHABLIE" or "CURCUS CHARLIE")
 * 13) Clay Shoot (listed as "CLAY SHOOTING") was actually part of Duck Hunt.
 * 14) Clu Clu Land
 * 15) Contra
 * 16) Defender (listed as "DEFENDER II")
 * 17) Devil World
 * 18) Dig Dug (listed as "DIG DUG I")
 * 19) Door Door
 * 20) Donkey Kong, Jr. (listed as "DONKEY KONG 2" and "MONKEY")
 * 21) Donkey Kong, Jr. Math (listed as "CALCULATOR")
 * 22) Donkey Kong 3 (listed as "DONKEY KONG" or "KEYKONG 3")
 * 23) Duck Hunt (listed as "SNOWFIELD SHOOT" and "DUCK HUNT")
 * 24) Elevator Action (listed as "ELEVATOR")
 * 25) Excitebike
 * 26) Exerion
 * 27) F-1 Race (listed as "F1 RACE" or "F-1 RACE")
 * 28) Field Combat (listed as "COMBAT")
 * 29) Formation Z
 * 30) Front Line
 * 31) Galaga (listed as "GALAGA" or "GALAZA")
 * 32) Golf
 * 33) Gomoku Narabe (listed as "CHESS", and "FIVE CHESS" or "CHINESE CHESS")
 * 34) Gradius
 * 35) Gyrodine
 * 36) Raid on Bungeling Bay (listed as "HELICOPTER" or "RAID ON BAY")
 * 37) Hogan's Alley
 * 38) Ice Climber
 * 39) Ikki listed (as "KNIGHT")
 * 40) Joust
 * 41) Karateka (wrongly listed as "TEKKEN")
 * 42) Life Force
 * 43) Lode Runner (listed as "LODE RUNNER 2")
 * 44) Lunar Pool (listed as "LUNAR BALL")
 * 45) M.U.S.C.L.E. (listed as "WWF")
 * 46) Magic Jewelry (listed as "JEWEL TETRIS")
 * 47) Mahjong Taikai (listed as "MAJUN2")
 * 48)  Mario Bros. (listed as "MARIO BROS")
 * 49) Mappy (listed as "MICE LOVE CAT", "MAPPY", and wrongly as "PACMAN")
 * 50) Mighty Bomb Jack (listed as "BOMB JACK")
 * 51) Millipede
 * 52) MotoRace USA (listed as "ZIPPY RACE")
 * 53) Ninja Kun (listed as "NINJA I")
 * 54) Nuts & Milk (listed as "MILK & NUTS")
 * 55) Brush Roller (listed as "BRUSH ROLL" and "PAINTER")
 * 56) Pac-Man
 * 57) Paperboy
 * 58) Pinball (listed as "PINBALL" or "PIN BALL")
 * 59) Pooyan
 * 60) Popeye
 * 61) Road Fighter
 * 62) Slalom (listed as "SLACOM" or "SLALOM")
 * 63) Sky Destroyer
 * 64) Space Invaders (listed as "SPACE ET")
 * 65) Spartan X (listed as "SPARTANX"), more commonly known as Kung-Fu Master
 * 66) Soccer (listed as "FIFA SOCCER")
 * 67) Sqoon
 * 68) Star Force
 * 69) Stargate (listed as "STAE GATE" or "STAR GATE")
 * 70) Super Arabian (listed as "ARABIAN")
 * 71) Super Contra
 * 72) Super Dimension Fortress Macross (listed as "MAXCROSS" or "MACROSS")
 * 73) Super Dyna'mix Badminton (listed as "SUPER DYNAMIX")
 * 74) Super Mario Bros. (listed as "SUPER MARIO")
 * 75) Super Soccer (listed as "SOCCER HEROES")
 * 76) Tennis
 * 77) Tetris: The Soviet Mind Game (listed as "TETRIS 2"), by Tengen
 * 78) Twinbee (listed as "TWIN BEE")
 * 79) Urban Champion
 * 80) Warpman (listed as "WARPMAN", and wrongly as "BURGERTIME")
 * 81) Wild Gunman
 * 82) World Soccer
 * 83) Yie-Ar Kung Fu (listed as "KING OF FIGHTER" or "YIE AR KUNG FU" or "SPARTAN")

Note: That the list count is greater than 76, as different versions of the PowerPlayer include slightly different game sets.

title: Power Player Super Joy III


license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Ruazn2


text:
User talk:Joel Schlosberg

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Here are some links I thought useful:

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Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~.

Be Bold!

Sam [Spade] 23:41, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Your user page
I found your old user page while checking out some old edits. I have history merged it, so that all edits are in one place. Hope you don't mind. Graham 87 04:57, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

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Invitation to join the Fifteen Year Society
Dear ,

I'd like to extend a cordial invitation to you to join the Fifteen Year Society, an informal group for editors who've been participating in the Wikipedia project for fifteen years or more.

Best regards, Urhixidur (talk) 19:47, 6 June 2019 (UTC)

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title: User talk:Joel Schlosberg


text:
User talk:Zsam

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --Lst27 23:48, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

Removing interwiki links on Richard Stallman
While claiming to be reverting vandalism here you took part in some yourself by removing the interwiki links. I'm going to assume good faith here and that it was a mistake on your part but it doesnt look good. -- Ævar Arnfjörð [ Bjarmason]   08:42, 2004 Aug 30 (UTC)

 * Sorry. It wasn't intended. I guess I should not be editing when in need of sleep. Makes making mistakes like this more likely.
 * As far as checking my contributions, please do so and tell me if there's anything wrong.Sam 19:29, 30 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm sure they're fine;=) -- Ævar Arnfjörð [ Bjarmason]   08:22, 2004 Aug 31 (UTC)

title: User talk:Zsam


text:
Stanisław Grochowiak

Stanisław Antoni Grochowiak, pen-name "Kain" (24 January 1934 – 2 September 1976) was a Polish poet and dramatist. His is often classified as a representative of turpism (Polish: turpizm), because of his interest in the physical, ugly and brutal, but he also exhibits strong tendencies toward formal, rhymed poetry, reaching on many occasions the ornamental grace of a baroque style. Grochowiak was born in Leszno and died, aged 42, in Warsaw.

Grochowiak is considered one of the leaders of the Polish "new wave" along with poets such as Zbigniew Herbert and Miron Białoszewski.

title: Stanisław Grochowiak


text:
Eaton Hodgkinson

Eaton Hodgkinson FRS (26 February 1789 – 18 June 1861) was an English engineer, a pioneer of the application of mathematics to problems of structural design.

Early life
Hodgkinson was born in the village of Anderton, near Northwich, Cheshire, to a farming family. His father died when he was six years old, and he was raised with his two sisters by his mother, who maintained the farming business. She sent her son to Witton Grammar School in Northwich where he studied the classics with the intention that he would fulfill the family's ambition that he prepare for a career in the Church of England. Unfortunately, the regime was unsuited to his tastes and talents which were already showing promise in mathematics. His mother moved him to a less prestigious private school in Northwich where his enthusiasm for mathematics was encouraged and fostered but, as the young Hodgkinson grew physically, he became indispensable on the family farm and soon left education to devote himself there.

However, farming was no more to his taste than Greek and Latin and his mother yearned to satisfy her son's appetites. Family friends advised that Hodgkinson might find some more suitable outlet in nearby Manchester and so, in 1811, the family left for Salford to open a pawnbroking business. Hodgkinson used all his spare time in reading science and mathematics and soon introduced himself into Manchester's scientific community, meeting, among others, his future collaborator, Sir William Fairbairn. He became a pupil of John Dalton, studying mathematics, and the two remained firm friends until Dalton's death in 1844. He retired early from the family business to devote a modest pension to his scientific work.

He married twice, to Catherine Johns and to a Miss Holditch. There were no children.

Scientific work
Hodgkinson measured the strength of columns of materials including cast iron and marble in a series of experiments.

Hodgkinson worked with Sir William Fairbairn in Manchester on the design of iron beams, especially on the Water Street bridge for the Liverpool and Manchester Railway in 1828–30. His improved cross section was published by the Manchester Literary and Philosophical Society in 1830 and influenced much nineteenth century structural engineering. He derived the empirical formula for a concentrated load, W (in tons), at which a beam will fail as a function of its length between simple supports, L (in inches); its depth, d (in inches); and its bottom-flange area, A (inch²):
 * $$W=\frac {26Ad} {L}$$

His expertise with beams led to his retention, along with Fairbairn, as consultant on the novel tubular design for the Britannia Bridge. Fairbairn built and tested several prototypes, and developed the final form adopted for the bridge. Both Hodgkinson and Robert Stephenson believed that extra chains would be needed to support the heavy spans, so the towers were built with spaces for the chains. Fairbairn, however, insisted that chains would not be necessary, and his opinion prevailed. He was right, and chains were never used, but the towers remain with their empty recesses.

Later years
Hodgkinson was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society in 1841 and, in 1847, he became professor of the mechanical principles of engineering at University College London. In 1849, he was appointed by the UK Parliament to participate in a Royal Commission to investigate the application of iron in railroad structures, performing some early investigations of metal fatigue.

Towards the end of his life, his mental faculties failed and he died at Higher Broughton, Salford.

title: Eaton Hodgkinson


text:
Julia Barr

Julia Barr (born Julia Rose Buchheit on February 8, 1949 in Fort Wayne, Indiana) is an American actress. Barr is most famous for her role on the soap opera All My Children, playing the character of Brooke English. She played the role from 1976 to 1981 and from 1982 to December 20, 2006, with other special and short appearances.

Growing up as an only child in Fort Wayne, Barr made her acting debut at the age of 13 in a production of Peter Pan. This helped her decide to pursue acting as a career, and by the time she graduated from Indiana University-Purdue University Fort Wayne, she had performed in 25 professional productions. She spent two years at the Studio Arena Theater in Buffalo, New York.

Career
Barr broke into soap operas with a short stint as bad girl Reenie Szabo on Ryan's Hope. She was invited to join the cast of All My Children as Brooke English, succeeding Elissa Leeds in the role. Her portrayal of Brooke garnered Barr eight Daytime Emmy Award nominations (1980, 1981, 1990, 1991, 1993, 1994, 1998 and 2001), winning the award in 1990 and again in 1998 for Outstanding Supporting Actress. Barr became close friends with noted actress Ruth Warrick, who portrayed her aunt Phoebe on the show until her death in 2005.

Barr took a 15-month break from the show beginning in 1981, during which time she toured with Katharine Hepburn and Dorothy Loudon in the national touring company of West Side Waltz. She returned to the show in 1982.

Despite fan outcry, Barr's airtime on AMC diminished in the early 2000s with her character Brooke only being used to further other characters story lines. In late 2006, executives at ABC did not renew Barr's contract, and offered her recurring status (without a guarantee of appearances). Barr declined. Fans of the show, and particularly Barr, were upset. Barr's contract officially expired in December 2006 and her last regular episode aired on December 20. The character was not given an exit and simply stopped appearing, which further fueled fan outrage.

In 2007, Barr teamed up her with All My Children co-star Jill Larson to produce and write a web series titled The Vindicated, which about three women, who are at a point in their lives in which they are without their male counterparts for different reasons. The project was written in 2007 and filmed in 2008. A final product is still in the works.

Barr returned to AMC for the soap's 40th anniversary on January 4 and 5, 2010. Barr again returned to AMC in February 2010 for a brief stint coinciding with the retirement of David Canary (Adam Chandler) on April 23, 2010.

Barr's final return to All My Children as Brooke English was in September 2011 in the final episodes of the show's ABC run. It was announced in February 2013 that she would appear as Brooke on the show's online revival. On April 29, 2013, it was confirmed that the show had been revived, with Barr playing the role of Brooke English. All My Children ended again in November 2013.

Personal life
Barr's first marriage, to Richard Barr, ended in divorce. She met her second husband, Richard Hirschlag, in a musical comedy class. Barr married Hirschlag on Valentine's Day 1982 in a Manhattan brownstone. Together they have a daughter named Allison who is also an actress; she briefly appeared as Lizzie Spaulding on Guiding Light.

Barr is an advocate of animal rights and spokesperson for the Fund for Animals. She recorded a Christmas album in 2002, From Our House...To Yours, to raise money for The Fund For Animals.

Barr is a spokesperson for First Step, a job-readiness program, as part of the Coalition for the Homeless in New York City.

Won

 * Daytime Emmy Awards: 1990, Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Drama Series for All My Children
 * Daytime Emmy Awards: 1998, Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Drama Series for All My Children
 * Soap Opera Digest Awards: 1991, Outstanding Supporting Actress: Daytime for All My Children

Nominated

 * Daytime Emmy Awards
 * (1980) Daytime Emmy Award for Outstanding Actress in a Drama Series
 * (1981) Daytime Emmy Award for Outstanding Actress in a Drama Series
 * (1991) Daytime Emmy Award for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Drama Series
 * (1993) Daytime Emmy Award for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Drama Series
 * (1994) Daytime Emmy Award for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Drama Series
 * (2001) Daytime Emmy Award for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Drama Series
 * Soap Opera Digest Awards
 * (1990) Soap Opera Digest Award for Outstanding Lead Actress: Daytime
 * (1992) Soap Opera Digest Awards for Outstanding Lead Actress: Daytime
 * (2003) Soap Opera Digest Awards for Outstanding Lead Actress

title: Julia Barr


text:
Talk:Spatial disorientation

Untitled
Quite a good article. I remember this is how JFK Jr.'s plane crashed, but the press didn't explain it this well. I'll probably link these two articles because they relate so closely together. I caught a few typos, but I'm not certain about "0.2 to 0.3 degrees per second per second" in the third paragraph. I wasn't sure whether it was an inadvertent repetition or refers to something I don't know about, so I left it. RivGuySC 23:52, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

degrees per second per second
The "degrees per second per second" is correct (not a typo). It means that, each second, the error in the perceived rate of turning increases by 0,2 to 0,3 degrees per second.

Simply said: Initially, the pilot's sense is correct: an error of 0 degrees per second. One second later, the pilot's sense differs from reality by 0,2 to 0,3 degrees per second. Another second later, the difference has increased to 0,4 to 0,6 degrees per second. And so on, until the crash.

questioning article length
Some of the government information just appended is interesting, but in my opinion it is too long and detailed for Wiki--an encyclopedia does not need to cover a subject like a textbook. Also, the wiki warning on excessive length now comes up on editing, so that's a pretty good sign. The new external links should stay, as quick access to further information is a valuable addition to any article, but the article should terminate after that section, or maybe just keep a picture or two, IMHO. RivGuySC 17:31, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I belive wikipedia definetely should cover all this, but I agree that the article is too long. This can be fixed by splitting it up and moving some information to other relevant pages, IMHO. Some text and images could probably be moved to graveyard spiral, semicircular canal, spatial orientation, Otolith organ, proprioception, etc... Password

not a condition only expirienced by aircraft pilots
Spatial disorientation happens in other situations. For instance, it is not uncoming if you are diving at night, in limited visibility or a depth in open water. The entry should be edited to make it more neutral, with a section that talks specifically about the condition in the context of aircraft pilots.

I am writing a paragraph which I will also put into the talk page for JFK Jr.'s plane crash. Have you ever been to a haunted attraction which includes you walking on a short catwalk inside a display which is rotating (around an axis which is parallel to the direction you are walking in? You know the catwalk doesn't move (in lieu of you reading instruments in an airplane or flight simulator), yet your body tells you that you are rotating!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 167.102.56.94 (talk) 00:12, 18 January 2018 (UTC)

up down only?
author writes spatial disorientation is up-down only? there is such a thing as graveyard spin, which i dont think is up-down. check this page for info: http://www.atlasaviation.com/medical/spatial_disorientation_seat_of_pants.htm

Section for accidents
I think we should take the aviation accidents out of the "See also" section and combine them in their own section. The number of them is significant in itself (maybe should have its own list page?), and they overshadow the non-aviation links. Dcs002 (talk) 02:14, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

Lede
''Spatial disorientation is often separated into 3 main categories by mishap investigators: Type 1: Unrecognized Type 2: Recognized Type 3: Incapacitating''
 * This appears to have been bolted-on to the lede, with no connection to anything before or after. It is also not referenced in the article. It should either be fully explained or deleted. Valetude (talk) 12:14, 2 March 2020 (UTC)

New lede 24/5/20
The old lede did not begin to summarise the article, and was too long anyway. I am suggesting that this article should concentrate on aircraft pilots, and that underwater spatial disorientation should be a separate article. For that reason, the title should be ‘Spatial disorientation (aerial)’ but I don’t know how to alter the title. Valetude (talk) 10:42, 24 May 2020 (UTC)

 * 10 months on, to repeat the request, can anyone show me how to alter the page-title to 'Spatial disorientation (aerial)'? Valetude (talk) 17:45, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Spatial disorientation


text:
User talk:Pembertond

I swear there used to be stuff here...

title: User talk:Pembertond


text:
Talk:Initial Teaching Alphabet

experiences ("t.o." = traditional orthography)
There needs to be more material on the I. T. A.'s effectiveness or lack of it. As I recall it was very controversial in its day. Parents couldn't understand it and kids had difficulty adjusting to the 'proper' alphabet when the time came. Lee M 23:53, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I was one of the lucky individuals to be able to benefit from the use of i.t.a., as were my four younger brothers. In the mid-sixties and early seventies, we were a part of a study to evaluate the use of i.t.a. All five of us were always above average students, have a much more in depth sense of the English language, have all graduated from a university, and have done very well. My parents had no difficulty assisting us with our homework, and we had no difficulty adjusting to the T.O.

My experience with ITA was not a very good one. After excelling in Kindergarten and 1st grade, our family moved to a different Elementary in the same school district. The first day of 2nd grade was horrific; the “Alphabet” above the blackboard was foreign to me. It was close to what I knew but had weird and different letters and combinations of letters. Everyone else knew this strange “Alphabet” but me. When I finally approached the teacher and told her that I didn’t understand the new “Alphabet”, she understood that I already knew the correct ABC’s. She then told me that she didn’t have the time to teach me separately and that we would get to the real Alphabet in a few months. The rest of the children thought I was mentally challenged and ridiculed me for the rest of the year. ITA was a failed experiment for myself and should be banned in English speaking countries. Lark22 (talk) 15:56, 24 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Are you serious? ITA was not your problem, your teacher was. ITA (or something similar) should be used everywhere and the "correct ABC" forgotten.--90.179.235.249 (talk) 13:46, 12 March 2010 (UTC)

2021

 * It's quite wrong to dismiss someone's lived experience like this. It doesn't matter if it was the system or the way the system was implemented, it still destroyed people's lives.SandrinaHatman (talk) 19:31, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

2017
I am also a product of I.T.A. which was taught at Cerritos Elementary in Cerritos, CA from 1969 to 1976. It was of no help to me. I.T.A. was a complete failure to me, compounded with the fact that I also turned out to have mild dyslexia, which I.T.A. only made worse, I ended up self teaching myself how to read in 8th grade when we moved to Irvine, CA. The Irvine Unified School District (IUSD) one of the top school districts in the Nation, it teaches the traditional way learning English. To this day, I have problems with spelling and grammar because of my early experience with I.T.A. I did go on to earn a BA at CSU Long Beach, but it was a big struggle for me when it came to writing term papers, essays, and reports. I do not believe that the way I was taught in Cerritos had anything to do with bad teaching. But making students guinea pigs in an experimental learning program should never have been allowed. I do believe that if I had not been exposed to I.T.A. in my early learning years, I would have had a more successful and productive life both educationally and professionally. Subjecting young minds to this teaching program can be more detrimental than helpful, especially because many young children have not been identified at that stage with potential learning issues. I.T.A may work well with a child who does not have learning issues, but for those that do have learning difficulties, such as myself, it can make the problem worse and the transition to standard English reading and writing is like trying to learn a whole other language. Grades and class participation take a nose dive do to the student having to start over again at ground zero when introduced to standard English after several years of learning the I.T.A. method. English is English. It should be taught in the traditional manner period. There should be no room for confusion, especially in the minds of young learners. - Former Instructional Assistant for eight years, Special Education Department (mild to moderate), high school level.--CoastKing (talk) 21:01, 14 February 2017 (UTC)

 * Some people had highly-positive experiences with I.T.A., but there were others who were not really helped by the greater phonemic nature of I.T.A. (as compared to standard spelling), and were troubled by having to deal with two different writing systems in their early school years... AnonMoos (talk) 13:45, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

 * P.S. I was exposed to the "color" method during my first grade (and maybe part of my second grade), and don't consider myself to have been a "guinea pig" at all... AnonMoos (talk) 13:48, 15 February 2017 (UTC)

2020
2020: My brother and I both were exposed to the ITA ("Insane Teaching Attempt") in the late 60s (Missoula, MT). My older brother, who already knew how to read, was forced to participate and essentially gave up on spelling for the rest of his life. I found it horribly complicated and illogical, and knowing that by the end of the 1st grade we would "graduate" to the real alphabet, had my mother teach me to read. By Thanksgiving I had proven to my teacher I could be moved to the "advanced" group of students. In the two years between when my brother had been part of the initial group and when I was exposed to it they had already learned that trying to force someone who already knew how to read to temporarily unlearn the real alphabet was a disaster. Within 5 years of implementing the ITA system they discontinued it; reading ability had gone down dramatically and it showed on test scores. Without doubt it was one a total disaster - parents hated it, had campaigned against it before it was implemented (only to be told they were stupid hicks and to listen to the "experts"), the students hated it, and, finally, the teachers hated it.

Pretty much the only thing worse is they way they "teach" math now. -- Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.19.228.194 (talk) 04:18, 21 October 2020 (UTC)

2021

 * ITA was abusive in my opinion. I joined school in UK able to read and write well, and was told to forget that and learn ITA. After 3 years of correcting my incorrect English (you know the stuff that is everywhere else in the world) they then said right it's time now to learn English! It was confusing, it had lasting ill effects on spelling and English confidence. We were the poor school and we were used as some sort of experimental animals. The kids at the rich primary didn't have to have this and they had 3 years advantage over us learning English. That then impacted on 11+ selection 3 years later because we still hadn't caught up. And that had a whole-life effect on our outcomes. I was the *only* child to pass 11+ out of 40 because one whole paper was on English. I was reading books from the library in real 'illegal' English and that's why I passed but so many of my contemporaries had their lives effectively destroyed by this. They lost confidence in their ability to read, were told they were dumb, failed their exam etc. Years later with an MA in English Language under my belt I worked for the adult literacy scheme in my county which was full of ex ITA learners who were functionally illiterate. I know first hand how ITA destroyed confidence and lives.SandrinaHatman (talk) 19:28, 6 March 2021 (UTC)

 * ITA was taught in one school in the education district I grew up in (Eastwood, just south of Glasgow, Scotland). Children who transferred to other schools had a really hard time adjusting, and were often placed in remedial classes, with all the stigma that came along with that. ITA didn't map well to Scots pronunciation, since it was based on RP. scruss (talk) 21:36, 27 March 2021 (UTC)

 * By the time it was expanded to 45 characters, it was based on a kind of compromise between RP and "General American", but you're right that it was not greatly influenced by Scottish English... AnonMoos (talk) 00:10, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

c versus k
Why does the ITA have distinct consonants for the c in cat and the k in key? Aren't they the same sound? http://www.omniglot.com/writing/ita.htm LGMᚂ 16:44, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

 * It was intended to be a teaching/learning aid, not strictly phonetic. AnonMoos (talk) 13:51, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Characters
This article needs a picture of the characters of the ITA. -SpellcheckW7 (talk) 17:19, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Done... AnonMoos (talk) 13:50, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Unicode
Seems there's no Unicode encoding of the special ITA characters at all... AnonMoos (talk) 12:33, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

 * There's no Unicode encoding for i.t.a yet. . Piaractus (talk) 18:27, 10 March 2017 (UTC)

 * That's a kind of meta-proposal to clear space for various possible things, one of which might be a (future) I.T.A. proposal... AnonMoos (talk) 03:10, 12 March 2017 (UTC)

If ITA will encoded, what about capital letters? Should they be encoded separately (as some sort of "reversed small caps" ("big smalls"))? 217.118.83.239 (talk) 21:34, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Not sure what they'll do, but that sounds uneconomical to me... AnonMoos (talk) 19:16, 21 June 2019 (UTC)

order of characters in chart
The order in File:Initial_Teaching_Alphabet_ITA_chart.svg is not the official I.T.A. alphabet order, but is more useful for presenting the characters in four rows of eleven... AnonMoos (talk) 23:01, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

Russian Wikipedia
There appears to be very intensive discussion of the I.T.A. on Russian Wikipedia at ru:Обсуждение_проекта:Графемы, but I'm not having much luck running it through Google Translate (which appears to have a somewhat different interface than when I last used it, several years ago). I'll try again in a few days on another computer which has the Chrome browser installed... AnonMoos (talk) 14:03, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

 * I managed to get it translated (the current version of Google Translate only really seems to work on Chrome, as far as I can tell), and I'm not sure I understand the purpose of the discussion, but it mainly seems to be about what the Russian translation of Unicode character names would be if Unicode covered the ITA... AnonMoos (talk) 15:46, 10 December 2017 (UTC)

Arabic Wikipedia
There's now a translation of this article on Arabic Wikipedia, but it doesn't show the shapes of the I.T.A. letters, which is rather baffling... AnonMoos (talk) 21:06, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

ITA simulation
Here's a Wikipedia user's attempt to simulate the ITA with current Unicode characters. It doesn't belong on the article, but is fine here: AnonMoos (talk) 23:13, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

2024
This was recently re-added, but will not be useful in the article until actual Unicode characters for ITA are available. AnonMoos (talk) 19:09, 21 March 2024 (UTC)

"half-hook a"
This one's short and simple. Half hook a needs an image. I don't know how it looks like! I've tries looking it up, but to no avail. 89.114.75.97 (talk) 19:16, 17 February 2023 (UTC)

 * Sorry I didn't see your question before. I don't think the 45th letter was included in the John Downing book I relied on, and it's not included in the Lars Törnqvist font or the Unicode encoding proposal (22286), or the images of I.T.A. characters on Wikimedia Commons.  It was probably introduced as the I.T.A. was going out of use... AnonMoos (talk) 02:04, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

 * ill try:
 * _
 * ɑ GabeNugget (talk) 15:00, 26 September 2023 (UTC)
 * The font "pitmanita" is available to download, which I have done but since forgotten where. It has the half-hook a in it. Assorted-Interests (talk) 20:15, 18 March 2024 (UTC)

 * "Pitmanita Medium" is the Lars Törnqvist font, but the 2003 version which I used, and is available for example at, does not have the "half-hook a"... AnonMoos (talk) 19:05, 21 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Here's the font I have which has the A in it: https://mega.nz/file/kGVjGZhb#s6_4B5NZcJHTnHc3oTHKtBwbc39mBJ5qeuD0YzSPzgs Assorted-Interests (talk) 22:43, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

 * The TTF file at that link is exactly the same as the one in the ZIP file downloadable from the other site. That site has elaborate documentation on the font (two PDF files in the ZIP and a GIF on the download page), none of which mentions or shows half-hook a, so I assumed it was not included in the font, but after your latest comment, I started poking around in the TTF file, and it turns out it's included as character 227 (small a with tilde diacritic).  (Slightly annoying, Lars...)  I extracted the shape as an SVG file, and I'll upload it to Commons within a few days, but it won't be included on the main I.T.A. chart (Initial Teaching Alphabet ITA chart.svg), and I'm not sure what would be the best way to include it on the article... AnonMoos (talk) 23:45, 26 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Initial Teaching Alphabet


text:
User:Pembertond

Daniel J. Pemberton
I really will put something here. I'll do it for you. Dan is the man.

title: User:Pembertond


text:
123 (number)

123 (one hundred [and] twenty-three) is the natural number following 122 and preceding 124.

In mathematics

 * 123 is a Lucas number. It is the eleventh member of the Mian–Chowla sequence.
 * Along with 6, 123 is one of only two positive integers that is simultaneously two more than a perfect square and two less than a perfect cube (123 = 112 + 2 = 53 - 2).
 * 123 is the first whole number containing numbers from 1 to 3.

In religion
The Book of Numbers says that Aaron died at the age of 123.

In numerology, the sequence of 123 is associated with progress and the Holy Trinity, so it may be referred to as the Trinity of Progress or Triad of Progress.

In telephony

 * The emergency telephone number in Colombia
 * The telephone number of the speaking clock for the correct time in the United Kingdom
 * The electricity (PLN) emergency telephone number in Indonesia
 * The medical emergency telephone number in Egypt
 * The Notation for national and international telephone numbers Recommendation ITU-T Recommendation E.123 defines a standard way to write telephone numbers, e-mail addresses, and web addresses

In other fields
123 is also:
 * 123 (film), a 2002 Indian film
 * 123 (interbank network), shared cash network in Egypt
 * 123 (New Jersey bus)
 * "1-2-3", 1965 song written and recorded by Len Barry
 * The atomic number of the yet-to-be-discovered element unbitrium

title: 123 (number)


text:
Talk:Sengoku period

Move article
Can we move this one to "Sengoku period" since all the other periods are lowercase? -- EmperorBMA|話す 23:55, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Article rubbish

 * from a scholarly perspective, this article is rubbish ** interested persons should consult a proper resource, or else use at your own risk !!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 192.240.92.137 (talk • contribs) . 08:39, 20 Jul 2006

 * One thing the author of the page mentions in the section pertaining to the Sengoku Period and modern culture is pretty obviously wrong. He states that the Lone Wold and Cub manga are set during the Sengoku period, but the entire storyline of the books revolve around the protagonist's, Ogami Itto's, struggle to bring the treachery of the Yagyu to the attention of the Shogunate. Considering that the end of the Sengoku Period led to the rise of the Shogunate, it is difficult to imagine how this could be true.** —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Sorokahdeen (talk • contribs) . 22:59, 23 Aug 2005

The above comment is false. The Sengoku period preceded the Tokogawa Shogunate, but was itself preced by the Minamoto and Ashikaga Shogunates.

I have struck out the above two unsigned and undated comments because they are no longer pertinent to the article as it stands. Spventi 13:28, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I unstruck them because you shouldn't modify others' comments. I've marked who wrote them. ··· 日本穣 ? · Talk to Nihonjo e  01:27, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Hototogisu
at 04:55, 28 July 2006 Spventi said;
 * coax is a perfectly good word, and there is no need to rephrase these in the first person, especially since the Japanese is ambiguous in this regard.

What is most important here is to describe the characters of the famous three. Nobunaga's temper and cruelty, Hideyoshi's self-confidence and ability, Ieyasu's patience. One would not see Hideyoshi's such character by describing him as saying "coax it." Ieyasu's "wait for it" may reflect his character, although not perfectly correct. By the way, hototogisu should be translated as cuckoo? Sounds strange to me. --LittleTree 20:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * coax = persuade (a person) gradually or by flattery (The Concise Oxford); wheedle, cajole, persuade (Webster); This is not a perfectly good word for "nakashitemiseyo". (By the way, in my memory the wording was "nakasetemishou". Do you have a reference?)
 * First, it is not necessarily by flattery. Literary speaking it can be by any means - can be flattery, threat or authority.
 * Second, Hideyoshi as the top of Daimyo's, he used his authority and power rather than falattery.
 * It is partly true that the Japanese is ambiguous without having subjects, but not in this case. "koroshiteshimae" is surely an 'order'. Thus "kill it" is perfectly suitable here. But, when someone says "nakashitemiseyou", it surely means he himself will do that. It is not that he is telling someone else to do that. ("nakasetemiseyo" would mean different, it is a kind of order.) "Nakumadematou" is less clear. It can be either "I will wait" or "let's wait".

 * Not to pour water on your theories about Japanese, but there are several problems with your interpretations here, least of all that the three senryu, although they appear to be in the first person, are actually third persons' observations of the sentiments of their subjects:
 * "Koroshiteshimae" is not an order (actually, I think what you mean is "imperative form"; but whatever...). It may be nominally or grammatically so, but syntactically it (the ～え！ form) is an expression of frustration. Hence it expresses the feelings of the first person or the subject of discourse. In this case, it embodies the sentiments of Nobunaga, so he is the actual subject.
 * 鳴かしてみせよ and 鳴かせてみせよ mean the same thing in Japanese, and they are not imperatives either. The よ suffix on みせる is an expression of volition and by definition implies the first person or the subject of discourse, so the subject of the action is not ambiguous—it is here Hideyoshi. The みせ（る） part means "I'll do something to prove that I can do it"—in the modern language, the form is still ～てみせる and is an indication of the speaker's determination, sparing no effort, to do something that another doubts he can do, that another is resisting, or that he should not normally be able to do. But again, this is a third-person observation. And since it's about getting a bird to sing, "coax" sounds perfect to me.
 * I believe your memory fails you: the construction "nakasetemishou" is not possible in Japanese. (In any case, see ホトトギス. The poems are rendered there.)
 * The subject of "Naku made matou" is also not so ambiguous—the う suffix also indicates volition and expresses the sentiment of the first person/speaker or the subject of discourse: Ieyasu. Once more, though—and this is the common thread through this—it's an observation embodying the subject's attitude. I therefore think the third person narrative is fine here.
 * In my opinion, the translations look fine inasfar as they convey the meaning of the originals quite succinctly. HTH. In haste, Jim_Lockhart 04:16, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Thank you for your kind attitude towards my poor English. In principle, I completely agree with your saying "third persons' observations" and "subject of the action is not ambiguous".
 * I perfectly agree with your explanation about Nobunaga.
 * I am fine with the current form of the third senryu, and your explanation is perfect. I just put "I will" so that it goes with Hideyoshi's.
 * If the wording "coax it" gives a feeling that the subject of the action is Hideyoshi to the native speakers, then I am fine without putting "I will" into the senryu. I just thought it would be taken as an "imperative" and also worried by JALockhart's saying "there is no need to rephrase these in the first person, especially since the Japanese is ambiguous in this regard". Are you really sure that everyone would understand that the subject of the action is Hideyoshi?
 * I am still afraid that "coax" is misleading. Does it mean "I'll prove that I can make it sing"? What do you think about the word is always explained with "flattery"? Wouldn't they think Hideyoshi is a flattering person?
 * I agree with you. 鳴かしてみせよ and 鳴かせてみせよ mean the same thing in Japanese. But there should be sources and it would be better to adopt the original wording.
 * みせよ is imperative. I don't know why you say "it is not". And thus, the wording is wrong because here in the senryu it is not meant imperative. I suppose you would agree that it should not be imperative here.
 * According to ja.wikiquote, the one for Hideyoshi is;
 * Nakazutomo nakasitemiseu hototogisu ("miseu みせう" is pronounced as "mishou", I suppose it is where my memory came from. it would be written as "みせよう" in modern Japanese and not as "みせよ")
 * In regard to succinctness, the current form is much better. I just worry that they (or the second one) may not convey the meaning of the originals. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by LittleTree (talk • contribs) . 06:57, 31 Jul 2006

 * Jim Lockhart was kind enough to address the linguistic aspects of your comments, so I will comment briefly on some of your other concerns.

 * First of all, the version of the Hideyoshi senryu found in Wikiquote is a variant and is different, for example, to that used in ホトトギス, which is the version I prefer and for which a source is given. If you feel strongly that "nakashitemiseyo" should be changed to "nakasetemiseyo," fine; I have no problem with that kind of a revision.

 * On the other hand, the changes you made to the English versions of the senryu were clearly not improvements; moreover, your concern about the word "coax" is entirely misplaced.
 * Also, if you think "cuckoo" sounds strange, then the onus is on you to provide information that suggests otherwise. Every one of the several J>E dictionaries that I checked renders hototogisu as cuckoo, as does the entry in the Japanese Wikipedia.

 * Your help in trying to improve this article is appreciated, but perhaps it's safest to discuss your concerns before making arbitrary changes.
 * Spventi 00:02, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

 * User:LittleTree wrote:"Nakazutomo nakasitemiseu hototogisu ('miseu みせう' is pronounced as 'mishou', I suppose it is where my memory came from. it would be written as 'みせよう' in modern Japanese and not as 'みせよ'.)"Indeed! Excuse me while I pull my foot out of my mouth. I was thinking in terms of modern Japanese for mishou; i.e., I was thinking みしょう not みせう! That said, I think your worries about coax are overdone: though I'm sure Hideyoshi, resourseful as he was, also used flattery when necessary, his basic modus operandi was to persuade people—whether opponents or allies—to see things his way and cooperate. I think coax is fine for saying that because it does not necessarilly entail flattery or imply anything negative, regardless of what dictionaries say. I'm also no longer so (cock-) sure that みせよ is not imperative; nonetheless I suspect it is an expression of volition, as みせう is. I wonder which is version of the poem is correct, or whether senryu with both endings are current: as the two sources cited here illustrate, the latter (みせう) might be true. One final point about the translations: although in Japanese, characterizations or observations of what or how another person thinks are often presented in the first person, in English this does not work. I think that's why Spventi did not translate these senryu using the first person. HTH, Jim_Lockhart 02:15, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Spventi: "but perhaps it's safest to discuss your concerns before making arbitrary changes." - Indeedly. Sorry for my thoughtlessness. I have no intention to suggest a change from "nakashite" to "nakasete," but would feel better if "miseyo" is changed to "miseu" or "miseyou" because みせよ cannot be an expression of volition. The version in Spventi referred is modernized in wording, and both of the two sources say it was written by 松浦靜山, I would say みせう is the original. Plus, the explanation 「松浦靜山の『甲子夜話』にみえる川柳. おそらくはよみ人知らず」 sounds much more reliable than 「江戸後期の平戸藩主・松浦静山が詠んだ句」. Then, みせよう should be a more adequate modern Japanese word here than みよう. I suspect that it might be a typo or mistranslation. Now, here is a third source; a text book for junior-high ISBN 4-594-03155-2, in which the one for Hideyoshi is written as 鳴かぬなら鳴かしてみせようほととぎす. Spventi: "then the onus is on you to provide information that suggests otherwise." - Indeedly. But I can't find an english word to express hototogisu. That is why I questioned. It is a family of cuckoo, but smaller. And it really sings. A popular bird next to uguisu who tells you the spring has come, while hototogisu being the one for the summer. Here is an illustration. I was not suggesting to change the word, but just asking whether there was a better word to be used here. If not, it can stay as it is. Spventi: "your concern about the word "coax" is entirely misplaced." and Jim_Lockhart: "I think coax is fine for saying that" - Hmmm. I withdraw. I trust you two than my dictionaries. One comment to Jim_Lockhart. Yes, he used flattery when necessary, especially in his early times, and I don't think it gives a negative feeling by describing him that way. That was not my worry. What I wanted to say was that it is only one face of him. You wrote "resourseful as he was", agreed. Now that I accepted the word coax and the form without first person, I admit Spventi's saying "the changes you made to the English versions of the senryu were clearly not improvements." Sorry again. One last question: don't you feel like making some mutial reference between this section and Toyotomi_Hideyoshi?--LittleTree 04:12, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

I don't find the Hideyoshi article to be particularly well written or authoritative. What's more, the Cultural Point of Interest section is not only poorly written but factually inaccurate. So, no, I am not particularly interested in linking to it. Unless, of course, I have had a chance to copy-edit it myself someday. Then I might change my mind.

I can appreciate your assertion about みせよ. I just did a search on the Internet, and all the Japanese pages have みせよう; none have just みせよ, so I just added an "u" in the article. But that leads to another interesting problem. If these are senryu, then the う results in ji-amari. So, is it wrong to call it a senryu? The other two are exactly 5-7-5 but みせよう makes 5-8-5. I wonder what MEXT's official stance on that is.  Spventi 08:44, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

 * I understand your feeling after the discussion we had. I hope you would be able to improve the Hideyoshi article one day. The definition of senryu is not that strict, ji-amari is allowed. Moreover, this case is not too bad, for みせよう is pronounced as miseyō (mi-se-you, rather than mi-se-yo-u). Then, again, みせよう is only a translation into a modern wording of the original みせう (though it is still my hypothesis that it is the original), with which it was not ji-amari. --LittleTree 11:48, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

 * The simple explanation (speculating here...) is that the original was みせう, since this would conform to the classical form, and that the みせよ（う） form has taken hold more recently because this seems natural to modern speakers (and is also parallel to the ～しまえ and まとう form in the other two). Just a guess on my part, mind you... Jim_Lockhart 13:26, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm fairly certain that this is a relatively "new" "poem", and the archaic form definately wouldn't apply if so. Also, I've always seen it in Japanese as nakasete miseyou (nakashite is a coloquial contraction, and so I think it should be changed), and it simply means "make it sing" - it doesn't specify "coaxing", in fact it doesn't specify means or intent at all ("coax" implies that you are using some positive means to make it sing, but depending on context, nakasete could be done via threat of violence - but if you are just looking to show Hideyoshi's "character" coax would fit, but I don't believe that "coax" is a literal translation, and nakasete miseyou alone doesn't even imply it). "Koroshite shimae" doesn't show "frustration", nor is it an order (as mentioned above), it is the ending -shimau -- which means "completely" - i.e. to completely destroy it - shimau at the end of a verb basically just means completely - tabete shimau "to eat it all", and depending on context can imply the act as violent, complete and total, or an accident (oops, I ate it all), or just gives it an unfortunate or negative connotation. The "miseyou" in all cases translates (albeit awkwardly) as "(I'll) show (you)", although it doesn't have such a concrete meaning in Japanese, like many additional verb endings. "naku made matou" is the short form of "naku made machimashou", which basicaly is just showing a decision to wait, i.e. "I'll wait until it sings." Suffice it to say, from first hand experience, Japanese never translates directly into English, the sentence structure and nuances don't translate directly, so a lot of (annoying) interpretation is required. For what it's worth, I'd translate it literally as: Destroy it, Make it sing (the miseyou really doesn't translate well), I'll wait until it sings.  But I'd interpret it into English as: Kill it, Make it sing, Wait - putting in the names where ever it seems fitting.  --Kuuzo 09:09, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Another saying　(a kyoka or a comic tanka.)
Is anyone interested in the following 狂歌?"織田がつき　羽柴がこねし　天下餅　すわりしままに食うは家康 Oda pounds, Hashiba kneads, and Ieyasu eats the tenka cake." --LittleTree 23:11, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

Warring states period
The article having the title of sengoku period and having it begin with the words warring states period is bound to create confusion with the chinese warring states period. Also, according to the Textbook "Traditions and encounters: A global perspective on the past" by Bently/Ziegler, the word Sengoku is best translated as "Country at war". —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.34.0.92 (talk) 23:56, 21 February 2007 (UTC).

 * I changed the English name back to "Warring States period" (from "Age of the Country at War"), because this is the translation that appears in Japanese-English dictionaries (e.g. the Kenkyusha Shinwaeidaijiten) and is used in most English language literature on Japanese history. In response to the points you raise (confusion with the Chinese Warring States period, "better" translation):
 * The fact that the period in Chinese history is also called the "Warring States period" is no coincidence, it has the same name in Japanese as well; this is probably deliberate, given that Japanese historians (who until the modern era often wrote their histories in classical Chinese) were likely to be well versed in Chinese history. In any case, Wikipedia has disambiguation pages to deal with confusion arising from different things having the same name.
 * It's highly debatable whether "Country at War" or similar is a better translation of sengoku than "Warring States" anyway. If the Japanese use of "sengoku" is a conscious reference to the period in Chinese history, then "Warring States period" (i.e. the name of the Chinese period in English) is a good functional translation. As to a literal translation, the character "国" (the goku in sengoku) in pre-modern contexts often means a "province", i.e. a "unit of administration in former Japan equiv. to modern prefecture" (Halpern, New Japanese-English Character Dictionary), rather than "country" or "nation". In English, "state" can also mean a "unit of administration inside a country", and in the sengoku period, the warring parties were (the daimyo of) such provinces or states; thus once could argue that "Warring States" is also an acceptable literal translation. Eljayess (talk) 12:45, 21 February 2010 (UTC)

Japanese arquebus?
I'm sorry, but I don't understand why a photo of Japanese arquebus of the early Edo era was added to this article. There is no mention of weaponry of any kind in the body of the article itself, and the Edo period is clearly NOT a part of the Sengoku period. My inclination is to remove the photo, although I do think it would be nice if it could be replaced with a more appropriate image. I think an image of the Battle of Nagashino would be nice if we could find one, but there is already an image of the Battle of Kawanakajima used in the Takeda Shingen article, so we could use that for the time being, as well. Any other suggestions or comments about this? Spventi 10:46, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Time-Span Conflict
The main article says the Sengoku Period lasted from the "the middle of the 15th century to the beginning of the 17th century", but the time-period chart says it ended in 1573, which is the late 16th century. The article itself goes on to state that the Battle of Sekigahara, which occured in 1600, was the last official battle of the Sengoku Period. Since the Azuchi–Momoyama period is considered a part of the Sengoku Period (it says so in both articles), I propose merging the two pages. Either merge the pages or resolve the time-span conflict. 75.157.115.154 (talk) 22:54, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Chinese warring states period
This was in the opening paragraph:
 * The name "Sengoku" was adopted by Japanese historians in reference to the Warring States period in Chinese history (Sengoku jidai (戦国時代) in Japanese) which preceded the unification of China.

This sounds completely irrelevant to me, and as currently worded, I think it makes things more confusing, not less. Yes, the Japanese use the same name to refer to the Japanese sengoku period and the Chinese warring states period. So? English speakers use the term "civil war" to refer to the American Civil War, the English Civil War, the civil war between Caesar and Pompey, etc. -- it's not surprising that they're all called "civil war". They're all basically the same thing (just in different times and places), so they get the same name. If the Chinese warring states period were also called "sengoku" in English, it would have some relevance, but it's not. So I don't see any reason to keep this line. - furrykef (Talk at me) 10:01, 19 June 2012 (UTC)

 * First of all, I think that this wording came about because of some rather flaky alternative translations that were put in the article, so in one sense, I agree that it might be appear to be superfluous as currently worded. One argument in favor of reinstating the sentence, however, is that it is factual. The Japanese of this era considered what was happening in their own nation to be analogous to what had previously happened in China and consciously adopted this name from the Chinese, using the same kanji. Frankly, I am inclined to revert the edit unless others disagree vehemently. Spventi (talk) 14:15, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

English name
I have changed the English name of the period back to "the Age of the Country at War", as this is the terminology used in Sansom's well-regarded (definitive?) history of Japan, and is the more accurate terminology. Sansom's book points out (I forget the page number, but I recall it is the first page of the chapter "Chronology of the Onin War and the Age of the Country at War") that while the name Sengoku is used in Japan as a reference to Chinese history, it doesn't make sense in a Japanese context, as the warring entities were not "states" but warlords. The above citation of Japanese-English dictionaries seems sketchy, as Wikipedia prefers reliable secondary sources written by historical specialists. I appreciate that it is sometimes called the Warring States Period in English, which is why I have added the sentence below with boldface. But the English translation given in the opening sentence should be one from a reputable source. elvenscout742 (talk) 05:50, 26 October 2012 (UTC)

Notable People?
As like probably a few (or maybe many) of you, I come from the whole Koei/Capcom fanbase due to Samurai Warriors/Sengoku Basara and upon looking at the list of "Notable People" I look at this as a bunch of fans listing their favorite characters. There's about 5 people that aren't in the game(s). Although they may be in the game due to that good reason (of being Notable), it just seems a little coincidental.

Can I suggest we just scrap the section because just like many wars, there's tons of important people, and that list clearly does not due justice to a scholars point of view. Either that or someone with extensive time and knowledge fix it up so it features every figure during the war to be prominent. ???

This article has multiple issues?
This entire so-called encyclopedia has multitudinous issues and is an abject failure. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.20.255.246 (talk) 18:07, 6 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Such as? Drive-by one-off's serve no purpose.50.111.23.141 (talk) 00:35, 15 December 2019 (UTC)

Casualties
How many died during the Sengoku Jidai? Is there anyway to find an estimate somewhere on the net? Thanks Freedom Fighter 1988 (talk) 17:23, 10 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Given that Sengoku is the name for a period of a little over a century rather than a specific conflict, I think it's a pretty good bet that virtually everyone in Japan died at least once. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 01:33, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

End date?
This appears to be a 諸説あり situation, but every single encyclopedia and dictionary entry here dates the end to either 1568 when Nobunaga entered Kyoto, 1573 when Nobunaga formally abolished the Muromachi shogunate, roughly 1570 when these events were happening, or roughly a century after the Onin War (i.e., roughly 1567); none of them mention Sekigahara or the sieges of Osaka. Meanwhile, our article doesn't seem to even mention the idea that the Sengoku period constituted roughly a century between the Onin War and the rise of Nobunaga. Can anyone explain this discrepancy? Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 01:30, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 02:24, 21 September 2021 (UTC)
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Wiki Education assignment: ENGL 15-013
— Assignment last updated by Jialeijiang (talk) 19:28, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Contribution on 03/23/2023
I hope that everyone can equally see how and what I edited on the Wikipedia article. I am an amateur writing student working with a class on here as is mentioned above this post.

In particular, I replaced a paragraph under the summary topic with a few paragraphs that would give context of the Onin War and how it had rippled conflicts from thereon forth on every stratified social level. I felt it had a better flow potentially, but again this is merely for an assignment for class; so feel free to remove the results of my research if you so deem it necessary.

Thank you all for your patience in providing me the opportunity. Nmartinezofficial (talk) 22:05, 23 March 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sengoku period