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Mercedes-Benz CL-Class

The Mercedes-Benz CL-Class is a line of grand tourers which was produced by German automaker Mercedes-Benz, produced from 1992 to 2014. The name CL stands for the German Coupé Luxusklasse (Coupé-Luxury). It is considered by Mercedes as their premier model.

In 2015 Mercedes officially ceased using the CL-Class designation, returning the vehicle's name back to the S-Class Coupe/Convertible, replacing it with the C217 S-Class Coupé.

History
"The equipment of the luxury class coupé corresponds to its position at the top of the Mercedes-Benz model programme, which is built at the Sindelfingen plant on its own line"

The CL-Class is the coupé derivative of the S-Class full-size luxury saloon, upon which it shares the same platform. Formerly known as the SEC (Sonderklasse-Einspritzmotor-Coupé) and later S-Coupé, it was spun off into its own, separate name in 1996 and in 1997 for North American markets. The CL continued to follow the same development cycle as the S, though riding on a shorter wheelbase, and sharing the same engines albeit with less choice as only the higher-output powertrains are offered. The last generation of the CL was actually heavier than its corresponding S trim (considering equivalent equipment), due to the roof engineering required to compensate for the lack of a central B-pillar.

First generation (C140; 1992–1998)
The first generation CL-Class was the sleek but hard-lined and redesigned W140-chassis (internally known as C140) coupé of 1992–1999. Designed by Bruno Sacco, the C140's final design was approved between late 1987 and early 1988. Though the coupé's physical appearance changed little over these years, the class underwent a name change several times. The V8 and V12 coupés were called the 500 SEC and 600 SEC, respectively, in 1992 and 1993. The 600 SEC was the first V12 coupé ever offered by Mercedes-Benz. For 1994, the model names were changed to the S500 Coupé and the S600 Coupé. The name CL-Class was adopted in June 1996 (1997 for MY1998 North American models), and the W140 coupés were called the CL500 and CL600. Production ended in August 1998.

The M119 5.0 L V8 engine was regarded as one of the best engines ever produced by the German manufacturer (according to various journalists from automobile magazines such as Car and Auto Motor Und Sport). Being much lighter at the front, the CL500 tended to have better handling characteristics than the heavier V12 flagship. The CL600 powered by the M120 48-valve twelve cylinder engine, developed 394 PS and 570 Nm of torque.

Twelve cylinder variants are easily identified by the "V12" emblems at the base of each C pillar, placed immediately behind the passenger windows. An entry-level model, the CL420, was available with a 4.2 L V8 engine (with the same architecture as the M119 5.0 L V8 engine) and since it was not available at all markets, it had very low sales compared to its larger-engined siblings. Production ended September 1998 with 26,022 Coupés produced.

Engines
Specifications for European model.

* All are electronically limited

Second generation (C215; 1998–2006)
The second generation CL is the C215-chassis four passenger coupé of 1998–2006, with development 1993 to 1999 and final design approved in 1996. It is based on the Mercedes-Benz S-Class (W220) (which was launched in late 1998 in Europe), though it rides on an 8 in shorter wheelbase. The CL's front fascia of four oval headlights is similar to that of the W210 and W211 E-Class.

The CL model variants included the:
 * naturally aspirated (NA) V8-powered CL 500
 * NA V8-Powered CL55 AMG, the supercharged V8-powered CL55 AMG
 * NA V12-powered CL 600 (2000-2002)
 * limited production (about 200 per year worldwide 5.5 litre V12 Bi-Turbo CL600 (2003-2006)
 * limited-edition NA CL63 AMG (26 examples only)
 * 2000 NA CL55 AMG F1 Edition (55 examples only)
 * the limited production (196 total) 6.0 litre V12 Bi-Turbo CL65 AMG (2004-2006)

The CL coupés introduced the Active Body Control fully active suspension system and Bi-Xenon HID lights). Active Body Control uses four hydraulic suspension rams that use three pressure regulators connected to a combination power steering and suspension pump, pushing fluid at a pressure of 2960 psi through the system that, along with several intermediate computers and master CPU, keeps this car flat through the corners. Standard equipment includes climate control, ABC (hydraulic) suspension, all-leather interior, designer wood trim, trip computer, CD, navigation system, front heated seats, power moonroof, as well as power door and trunk closing assist. Optional features include a heated steering wheel and voice-activated telephone, as well as, front fan-cooled and heated seats.

The CL63 AMG was produced only in November 2001 and just 26 examples were sold. The engine produced 438 bhp and 390 lb-ft torque between 2,500 - 5,800 rpm, with a peak of 457 at 4,400 rpm. The V12-powered CL63 AMG was only sold in Europe and Asia. Mercedes-Benz never offered the C215 CL63 for sale; all were sold exclusively through AMG.

Only 55 examples of thee 2000 CL55 AMG F1 were manufactured, as a tribute to the modified Safety Car version used in Formula One during the and  seasons. The engine was a naturally-aspirated 5.4-liter V8 delivering 354 bhp at 5,500 rpm, and 391 ft lbs torque at 4,100 rpm. This was the first road car to feature full Ceramic Brembo Vented and Cross Drilled Disc Brakes.

From 2000 through 2002, the V12-equipped cars featured a cylinder deactivation system marketed as Active Cylinder Control, subsequently dropped when the 500 PS Bi-Turbo V12 was introduced. The deactivation feature allowed improved fuel economy for the CL 600, comparable CL 500, notably during highway driving where six-cylinder operation could activate. The V12 engine is not unlike two Mercedes six-cylinder series engines mated to a common crank with appropriate engine monitoring systems.

Exclusive “Designo” packages featured custom color metallic paint, custom color Nappa leather interior and exotic wood trims, in three variants: Designo Cashmere, Designo Espresso and Designo Silver. Additional variants can be found on rarer models. An optional granite trim could be specified in lieu of wood trim.

In 2003 the engine options changed. The CL 55 AMG became supercharged allowing the car to accelerate from 0-60 mph in 4.27 sec according to Motor Trend and the V12 CL 600 had 2 turbochargers added and a slight engine reduction, from 5980 cc to 5513 cc. Both cars produced 500 PS the distinction, again, was the ghost like quietness of the CL 600 as compared to rather noisy CL 55 AMG. The CL 600 was conservatively rated by Mercedes-Benz as not to take sales away from the AMG CL 55. A dyno tested stock CL 600 was closer to 540 hp. Car & Driver's acceleration test delivered a 0-60 time of 4.3 seconds. The more powerful CL 65 (2004-2006) produced 612 PS. The top speed of the CL 65 was limited to 250 km/h. These numbers are the stock performance ratings for the AMG CL 65.

Engines
As with all major German manufacturers (except Porsche), Mercedes electronically limits most of its cars to 250 km/h.

* All are electronically limited

Third generation (C216; 2006–2014)
After 6 years of development, the new model was officially unveiled at the end of June 2006 and was presented at the 2006 Paris Motor Show. Like its predecessors, the C216 has no B-pillar interrupting the sleek curve of the side windows. The W216 is offered in four models, each with its own engine and transmission, the 5.5L V8-powered CL 550 (available with 4MATIC all-wheel drive, which is standard in Canada and the USA), the high-performance 6.2L V8-powered CL 63 AMG (with optional performance package variant) and the ultra-luxury twin-turbo 5.5L V12-powered CL 600 and, lastly, the CL 65 AMG with a twin-turbo 6.0L V12 engine. The CL 500 is sold as the CL 550 in some markets (including the U.S.). The class is based on the chassis of the W221 S-Class, which shares the same powertrains, although there are V6 and hybrid engines for the S not available for the CL. The two-door coupé weighs 2045 kg, being heavier than the equivalent S saloon, and rides on a full-size 116.3-inch wheelbase (albeit 8.2 inches less than the long wheelbase S-Class, which is the only S-Class sold in the U.S.). Despite its large size, rear seat legroom is limited in keeping in the tradition of 2+2 luxury coupés, though CL has more rear passenger space than its rivals. The CL's trunk is as large as that of the Audi A8 flagship saloon.

The C216 makes use of the Distronic Plus cruise control, which debuted on the 2007 S-Class. This system is able to bring the car to a complete stop, and accelerate again to the pre-set speed, to keep a pre-set distance away from the car ahead of it. This Mercedes-Benz CL has also debuted with the new Active NightVision program that enables drivers to view the conditions in front of the car despite the dark surroundings.

In 2007, 40 C216 CL 65 AMG units have been sold as 40th Anniversary Edition, to celebrate AMG's founding 40 years earlier. Performance wise, the '40th Anniversary Edition' was a custom CL 65 AMG. Changes to the car included a 'ONE OUT OF 40' badge near the COMAND controller, special upholstery and rooflining, and a special 'AMG Alubeam' paint finish. Apart from the CL 65 AMG 40th Anniversary Edition, only a small selection of showcars got an Alubeam finish, a special paint designed to gleam like liquid metal.

2010 update
The facelift version of the Mercedes CL-Class made its world debut in July 2010 at the Goodwood Festival of Speed. The new CL-Class comes with an improved exterior and interior, but the biggest changes are found under the hood. The exterior gets a new grille, bi-xenon headlights with LED technology, LED fog lamps, revised fenders and hood, and new exhaust pipes. For the interior the biggest change is the addition of a new wood trim. The new CL-Class will also be offered with all the latest technologies including: Active Blind Spot Assist, Attention Assist, Active Lane Keeping Assist, Night View Assist Plus, and Active Body Control.

The model line-up starts with the entry-level CL 500 (550 in the US) powered by the new 4.7 L (4,663cc) V8 direct-injected engine that delivers 435 PS and 700 Nm of torque, paired to a new seven speed automatic transmission, which accelerates from 0 to 60 mph in 4.9 seconds. The CL 600 retains the twin-turbo 5.5 L V12 engine and five-speed automatic with a total output of 517 PS and 830 Nm of torque. It sprints from 0 to 60 mph in 4.0 seconds. Both vehicles are limited to 250 km/h. The CL 63 AMG is powered by a new direct injection, 5.5-litre V8 engine (a larger displacement version of the CL 550's) mated to a 7-speed MCT dual-clutch transmission with a total output of 525 PS and 800 Nm of torque. The CL 65 AMG's V12 engine has been tweaked to deliver 630 PS and 1000 Nm of torque, mated to a 5-speed automatic with AMG speedshift.

The last generation of the CL-Class, C216, was available in five models: CL 500 (CL 550 in some markets, with standard 4MATIC in Canada and the USA), CL 600, CL 63 AMG, CL 63 AMG (S) and CL 65 AMG. The CL 65 AMG was the most powerful model of the CL and the most expensive Mercedes-branded vehicle, slightly edging out its S-Class equivalent S 65 AMG and the SLS. CL sales are the third-lowest of Mercedes-Benz in North America with under 1400 units sold in 2006, as only the G-Class four-wheel drive and two-seat SLS AMG sell smaller numbers; annual CL sales equalled Ford truck sales for one day. However, this degree of distinction was considered attractive to CL buyers.

title: Mercedes-Benz CL-Class


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Talk:Andromeda Tonks

Where did the info about her hair colour, eye colour, and house come from? Rosemary Amey 04:54, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

her hair is mousy-brown, because that is Tonks' natural color. But we are NOT SURE.
 * Her blood is "Pure-blood" - all Blacks are, like Bellatrix and Narcissa.
 * No info on her hair or eyes, though it is possible
 * Her house has to be Slytherin because all the Blacks were in there.
 * (Slughorn says he regretted not getting Sirius Black in slytherin house, because he wanted a complete set, but I don't know if this is relevant to his cousin? Also it might be after slughorn retired?Sandpiper 23:13, 20 August 2005 (UTC))
 * Certainly not. Andromeda is older than Sirius was, and since Slughorn was a teacher since Voldemort's day he must have taught her.

Blood traitor
Someone appended this to her "Blood purity" entry: do we really need this? If so, a proper explanation should be provided. --Phil | Talk 09:08, Nov 4, 2004 (UTC)

 * How do we know that she is a member of the Order of Phoenix? She is in the list of members. But as far as we know, she is still alive, so why haven't we seen her yet?

Isn't she only first mentioned in OotP? I don't think there is any mention of her in GoF.

Edit War on the house Slytherin
Can we get all the citations out of the book before we go on editing the Slytherin bit again and again? There is no point editing something that will be reverted by someone else, so please use this page to justify yourself before you continue the revert war that was started. Lag 17:32, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I feel that even after Sloghorn's claim, there is insufficient proof for Andromeda's house. Rowling may have intended another house, but forgotten about Andromeda when she wrote the quote by Sloghorn. So please don't add the house field. Rain74 20:19, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

 * At the moment, it's the only clue we have on her house, but I agree, it's not a strong clue. Not only may JKR not have been thinking of Andromeda, it's more than possible that Slughorn himself dismissed her entirely--she was from a secondary branch of the family, and if she wasn't in his club or his house, I could see him not even paying attention to her.  It may even be that he was only referring to the "royal line" of the Blacks; after all, if he's talking about everybody, he'd be talking about the Potters and Weasleys as well, since they descend. Miss w 21:32, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

 * But Ron isn't surnamed Black. And since Andromeda, along with Bellatrix and Narcissa, attended Hogwarts before Sirius, I think he'd be likely to include them. Bellatrix and Narcissa were both memorable and beautiful, and Bellatrix at least must be fairly gifted if Voldemort was willing to give her any sort of tutelage in the Dark Arts, so they are likely to have been in the Slug Club - meaning that he would remember their house - and that of their sister. More to the point, what does he care about secondary branches - he isn't a Black, after all, and their ability to succeed through his patronage won't be affected at all by their 'only' being members of a cadet branch of the family (in pureblood circles, they would be members of one of the elite families, and that would be more important than how close they were to the main fortune - especially given the family tendency to disown members, which, for example, allowed Lucius Malfoy's son to become the collateral heir of the family. They'd be worth patronising for that anyway). And why would he dismiss the beautiful Black sisters because they were from a secondary branch of the Black family? Lily was a muggle-born of entirely unremarkable lineage, and he raves about her, so if he remembers her, he'd remember Narcissa and Bellatrix - and, by extension, Andromeda (who, even if she wasn't notable enough in school to be particularly remarkable, would have made waves with her 'scandalous' marriage to a muggle-born).
 * But indeed, there does seem to be a remarkable amount of weaseling around on this issue. Slughorn makes a statement which seems obvious in its implications - "The whole Black family had been in my house, but Sirius ended up in Gryffindor." Only a definitive statement that Andra was not in his house or that she was could make the issue clearer (and come on, there aren't that many Blacks on the tree born between 1847 and 1980 - and if he is able to make that sort of authoritative statement, any Blacks who were not in Slytherin would have been memorable by that fact alone). But the implication seems clear: before Sirius, there had not been any Blacks that were not in Slytherin house (or at least, not after Slughorn began teaching, any time after 1858). He would remember if another member of the Black family had not been sorted into Slytherin only five years before.
 * And what is there against this reading? An absurd amount of drivel. Has Rowling given any indication that Andra was NOT in Slytherin, that she 'may not have been thinking' of her? Not to my knowledge. What qualifies you to judge that Rowling wouldn't have intended her to be in Slytherin, that she may have forgotten about her? If you have been appointed continuity editor, or have some deep knowledge of Rowling's ideas and intentions, then share them, please! But if not, why do you think you can write off a statement which is not cast-iron but nonetheless solid enough to be taken as fact until Rowling says otherwise (and it is highly unlikely that she will, given that Andromeda has so far been no more than a few references, is not - to our knowledge - in the order of the Phoenix, and has not been mentioned as appearing in book 7 - according to Rowling, we'll see an already met character in more depth, or something like that, but I also think she said that we wouldn't meet any new major characters), because you think it wasn't what the author intended? Are you next going to claim that, because Katie Bell wasn't specifically mentioned as a new recruit in book 1, despite being a second year, there isn't enough evidence that she had only just joined the team, despite the much publicised 'no first years rule' ("well, Rowling hasn't specifically stated that Katie was new to the team, so maybe Rowling just forgot about her when she wrote that kids could only join past second year!"). How can you possibly justify not listing Andromeda Tonks, nee Black, as a Slytherin?
 * I ask you 2 questions. Do you have any reason to believe that she wasn't? Do you have any reason to want her not to have been? Michaelsanders 22:25, 7 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't have any particular reason to suspect she wasn't, but if we're trying to go by the facts of the books, I don't think it's sufficiently proven that she was. In terms of the Wiki, if there's any question, I'd be inclined to put down "unknown" as opposed to extrapolating from a line which may have referred to something else.  We don't know what Sluggy's frame of reference is--he's talking to Harry in terms of the brothers (imho, most likely in order to remind readers, one of several times in the book, that Sirius has a brother named Regulus Black), and the cousins aren't mentioned, same surname or not.  He doesn't say, "Yes, I had Regulus and their cousins, and I would have liked the whole set"; it's reasonable to make either assumption.  Therefore, with no definitive proof, it's best to avoid giving definitive statements--it's the fiction equivalent of original research.  (Personally, for that reason, I'd avoid putting estimated birth years on the Marauders, either--it's not because I agree or disagree, just because it involves extrapolation.) Miss w 00:18, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure that I would describe two brothers as a 'set': it's a pair. Nor do I think that I would describe one brother as 'the whole family'. As for your charge of OR: if taken strictly, Wikipedia becomes pointless, since it generates into a few obvious points and little else. So far, however, there has been little coherent reason for not citing Andromeda as a Slytherin, other than the horrendously convenient charge of Original Research. Narcissa and Bellatrix are listed as Slytherins - is there any confirmation from Rowling there? Because if not, I don't see the difference between them and Andromeda. Unless - and I'm sure I'm totally wrong here, so correct me by all means - you simply find it inconceivable that anyone could be in Slytherin house without being a Voldemort supporter. In which case, I refer you to Professor Slughorn, who is anything but.
 * Slight correction: We know Bellatrix was in Slytherin. Though you would probably disagree, pointing out that we know that 'the Lestranges - they're a married couple' were in Azkaban, and that we don't know for sure that Bellatrix and Rodolphus are those two (maybe it was Rabastan and his wife, and Rowling forgot to tell us that?). Really, though, it does seem as though you are being affected by a severe amount of 'will to believe' that Andromeda was NOT in Slytherin (come on, the House has already had a horrendous representation by Rowling - very nice, daubing a quarter of a school as evil - why are you now trying to shoot down a reference she made to a - presumed - nice person?). Michaelsanders 00:58, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I didn't say that Bellatrix wasn't in Slytherin, just that Slughorn's comment didn't mention the cousins at all. It would have been an opportunity to say that he had everyone surnamed Black with a very simple mention that he had the cousins, since that is, more or less, established by the comment about the Lestranges.  I have no interest "shooting down" anything; I'm not sure where you're getting that from.  On Wiki, you don't do "original research."  That means not extrapolating.  I will admit that I wrote Andromeda in a different house, but as soon as the Sluggy comment came out I changed it where necessary and ignored it elsewhere.  As a working theory, I'm willing to accept it, but in a Wiki article, you don't do "working theories."  Slughorn's comment is suggestive, but not definitive.  Without a statement from JKR or a mention in the books, this is information we do not have, which is therefore not appropriate for an informational article.  You seem determined to insert your position that she must be the mythical "good Slytherin" (despite the presence of Slughorn, who we know is a good Slytherin, and Phineas Nigellus, who appears at worst to be a neutral one) at the expense of having an actual verification of this.  My position about stating it in the article has nothing to do with my own opinions on the subject.  It's just a question of the OR prohibition on Wiki articles. Miss w 16:31, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I am definitely not saying that Andromeda is a 'good Slytherin'. On the contrary, given that she has given her child a name which is very typical of the female names in the Black family (Callidora, Elladora), I would be rather dubious about just how far behind she has left her attachment to her family, and hence her belief in its values. Nonetheless, I would find it distinctively odd that editors think it inappropriate to list Slytherin as the house for a woman who is viewed positively amongst readers due to her marriage, and have no problems at all with allocating her generally disliked sister Narcissa to the same house. Nor do I see why Slughorn would bother to clarify *which* Blacks he had in his house: quite apart from the fact that he will not expect Harry to know of any of the sisters apart from Bellatrix (and the less said about her the better - if she WAS in the Slug Club, she would have been its star - and hence, her DE fanaticism would be as embarrasing to Slughorn as Riddle's descent into darkness), making mention of them pointless: he had no need to mention them. Because, as he told Harry in terms which you cannot seriously disagree with, he had them ALL. Except for the ever-rebellious Sirius. And, given how long he has been teaching (as long as Dumbledore), that would be a quite a few Blacks: enough to remember, but enough to make recitation tedious. Furthermore, it is you who seems keen to conduct OR, doing your best to explain why JK Rowling clearly DIDN'T mean what she wrote. And very poor theories they are too (royal line of Blacks, indeed!). And just as an additional comment: I have no interest in 'mythical good Slytherins'. If Rowling shows a quarter of a school as evil, or vicious, it needs a proper explanation (or apology), not tokenism (which, imoho, is largely what Slughorn was about. And, given that he was one of the few sympathetic characters frequently referred to with reference to his weight, not just about the morality of her Slytherins). Michaelsanders 17:30, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
 * But I'm not actually proposing any theory, which is where your argument falls by the wayside. You are arguing that she is in Slytherin, based on a flimsy line from Slughorn (much as, right up until JKR released the family tree, people were insisting that Bellatrix had to be in Snape's year because she was in the crowd of Slytherins that Snape ran with, according to Sirius... oops).  I'm not arguing that she is or isn't, only that Slughorn's single line isn't sufficient proof one way or the other, as it can be interpreted in several ways, just as the aforementioned line about the Lestranges being in Snape's group could.  Doing math to figure out the Marauders' birth years has turned out fruitless, trying to juggle the ages of the Black sisters so that Bella was youngest turned out fruitless, and I suspect that, until there is a definite statement from JKR, naming Andromeda's house is fruitless.  You have to err on the side of caution.  It's one thing to argue theory against theory--in that case, the Slytherin connection very definitely has the edge.  It's another to state it as fact.

As to the "royal line," I used the term just as a handy way of referring to the 12GP Blacks who keep the family tree. They seem to be descended from the eldest brothers (provided said eldests didn't die early or get disowned). So they'd be the center of the family. Slughorn worked there so long that he probably taught great-grandparents of his students, and could well think of it in terms of a line of direct descent. I'm not saying it is so--which is where we appear to be differing--only that there is, to use a legal phrase, reasonable doubt as to whether or not he's referring to the cousins.Miss w 19:46, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Why is it that most of the time, I am suggesting that we give some thought to an issue whilst everyone else insists that we take the authorial statements at face value; whereas here, I am suggesting that we simply accept what the author has told us, whilst everyone else is insisting that the author must be wrong. Is this meant to be some sort of joke? Because, I can assure you, I am not laughing.
 * Nor do I understand your views about the calculations regarding the birth years of Severus Snape et al. It is based upon what Rowling has said. You appear to see great difficulty in accepting even the most basic of statements from the author, even when there is no reason why they should be doubted. I don't even understand why you are suggesting that the mathS used to calculate the dates was fruitless. They were born between 1st September 1957 and 1st September 1958: it's the only school year which fits in with everything Rowling has said. Seems pretty fruitful to me.
 * I'm going to be blunt. You are the one pushing OR, not me. This is JK Rowling's conception, her world. You do not have the right to suggest that Rowling does not mean what she says, you do not have the right to claim that a fact stated by Rowling is not a fact. That is why, for example, we accept in the blood purity article, we accept that magic is carried on dominant and resilient genes, even though that is genetically impossible. We can debate it all we like on the talk page, we can point out that it is genetically impossible in the article, but we have to accept that what Rowling says is, in her creation, true. So, you are welcome to discuss here whether she really was a Slytherin, or to point out in the article that it wasn't explicitly stated. But this is how it stands in canon so far: "The whole Black family had been in my house, but Sirius ended up in Gryffindor." That means, according to Rowling, the whole Black family was in Slughorn's house (Slytherin), with the exception of Sirius. Not excepting Andromeda, because she hasn't been mentioned as being exempted. Which means according to Rowling, until she says otherwise, Andromeda was a Slytherin. And that's that. Accept it. Or don't - you are welcome to argue your case that Rowling didn't know what she was talking about here if you wish, but it stays enshrined as a fact until the author says otherwise.
 * Nice to have talked to you. Probably best to work out just what Original Research is next time. Suggestions that 'Rowling forgot about one of her characters when writing a book' or 'Slughorn obsessively follows who in the Black family stands to inherit' are OR. Suggesting that we follow canonical statements until told otherwise is not. Michaelsanders 22:01, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

 * This makes no sense--I'm not suggesting a house at all. I'm not proposing any theory whatsoever.  I'm saying, "Hold off until there's a direct statement," and in the context of conversation, suggesting several different things that could undermine your theory, not saying that any one of them is true.  You, on the other hand, are saying, "Yeah, because of this line, this MUST BE THE CASE." I happen to agree that it's probably the case.  But there've been enough cases in fandom of people making assumptions based on "probably" that I think it's foolhardy to plant a flag on the theory. Miss w 16:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Just to warn you - it'll be a bit before I can give a proper reply. You can't expect me to pick up a topic again after a month of silence with ease. Michaelsanders 16:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Right then... I do not have any theory. I am following the rules regarding articles for novels. These make it clear that clear authorial statements, whether through the mouth of a character or direct from the author, have to be accepted as true - even if you don't agree with them. Thus, Dumbledore is dead - regardless of inconsistencies raised by those who believed he wasn't. Magic is carried on dominant resilient genes, even though that statement is self-contradictory. And Andromeda is a Slytherin, even if you don't believe it. These rules do not apply if the author has left the matter ambiguous, either deliberately or accidentally. For example, Dumbledore's house: 'they say he was in Gryffindor' is a mushy imprecise statement (who says?), and so we accept Gryffindor as the 'official' house, but have to point out that there is a reasonably high level of uncertainty (thus, his infobox reads 'tentatively Gryffindor'). In the more controversial cases, consensus takes over. For example, most people agree that the statements of Sirius and Snape regarding their peers must be taken with a pinch of salt, regardless of assertiveness. Snape's loyalty is another matter - the sheer complexity of his loyalties means that, by consensus, his article is not subjected to a generalised rule, but instead considered by individual points. Such is not the case here. Andromeda is not controversial, and there is no reason to regard the statement regarding the Black family's house as ambiguous. You are also unlikely to get many people agreeing that her article needs special consideration - except from those who have POV they wish to club others with.

 * You, by contrast, have a theory. It is that Rowling did not necessarily mean 'all the Blacks were in Slytherin' as an assertive statement, and that YOU think that the matter is dubious - which it isn't. Furthermore, you have already admitted that you are a (fanfic?) writer who wrote Andromeda as not a Slytherin, and tried to fudge the issue in your work after HBP. Claiming that you don't have a bias is laughable. You have been scurrying around like a rat in a cage desperately trying to find any excuse for Slughorn, and by extension Rowling, not having meant what he/she said.

 * You could, of course, say that the policy is wrong. Maybe Slughorn was lying to impress Harry, and in fact only two members of the Black family were Slytherins. In that case, is there anything else you wish to question? Are you sure Lily and James are dead? Is Hagrid actually a polyjuiced Professor Quirrell? Maybe Slytherin et al didn't come from fen, glen, etc - maybe the Hat was lying to rhyme, or to suggest a royal line of some sort, and actually the founders came from a two bedroomed semi in Stockport?

 * Or maybe you don't understand wikipedia policy. Michaelsanders 17:13, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I haven't made any changes in the article, nor do I have a theory that Andromeda wasn't in Slytherin that I'm trying to defend, and your response is puzzling to me on that front. Not once have I suggested putting in the article that she was a Ravenclaw--I remember getting an indignant note from someone when I failed to put her in Ravenclaw, since "everybody knew" that Andromeda was a Ravenclaw, based on fannish speculation.  I used to theorize that she was a Gryff ahead of Sirius, and that's how she got to be his favorite, but the likelihood is that she was in Slytherin, so I dropped that thread.  The question is entirely about the reliability of a single statement by a character not identified as an authorial mouthpiece (JKR identifies Dumbledore and Hermione as reliable sources).  After several debunkings of perfectly reasonable fannish theories (eg, Charlie's age) based on statements by characters (years since the winning of the Quidditch cup in PoA), it just seems prudent not to make definitive statements based on things that require even a little extrapolation.  If Slughorn had said, "Andromeda Black was in my house," then it would fit the requirement of a statement made in canon about her.  But since it was kind of "Yeah, I had all the Blacks"... I just don't think it's enough to call it a definitive canon statement.   I honestly don't have any issues with Andromeda being in Slytherin; when I turn out to be wrong--or probably wrong--about something, I generally shrug and change it, and I sort of like Slytherin!Andromeda as something to play with.  But in terms of the Wiki article, I don't think Slughorn's comment is really specific enough, since it means making assumptions about whether he's being precise, or just sort of generalizing, like movie!Ron with "There wasn't a witch or wizard who went bad who wasn't in Slytherin," which is disproved with Peter, a Gryffindor who went bad.  I expect that, if we ever meet her on the page, it will be established that she was a Slytherin, but there's enough wiggle-room that a sure-fire theory based on it could still end up being shot down, so it seems wise to temper it.  There are enough arguments going on in this fandom based on things that end up being completely shot down that it makes sense to approach any of them with caution and not state that "everybody knows" or that something is certain until it's said in so many words. Miss w 22:25, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

The Charlie thing is entirely different. That was based upon an ASSUMPTION that Gryffindor would have won every year he was on the team. As for Slughorn's statement: it is a solid enough statement. There is no reason to suggest, as you claimed, that "Rowling may have forgotten about Andromeda" or that "Slughorn only pays attention to the main line of Blacks" (you claim to be a writer - how do you feel when people tell you that you couldn't possibly have meant what you said?). And Wikipedia policy IS to accept such statements as canonical fact until the author says otherwise (unless there is reason to be doubtful - eg. the author has phrased it in an unassertive manner ("around 36 or 37", for example), or consensus deems it worthy of further consideration. Thus, the change in the death date of the Riddles (which, prior to HBP was listed as 1944, but altered due to new info there). Or the hopping in the Weasley age debacle. And in the case of Hagrid's 'all evil wizards were Slytherins" - well, had Wikipedia existed back then (I don't know, but I think even PoA predates wikipedia), it would have to be accepted as fact that 'all evil wizards were Slytherins'. And the change would have come with PoA, when not only was Pettigrew revealed to be oh-so-evil, but it was clear that Hagrid had known about 'evil Gryffindor Sirius, Lieutenant to Voldemort' even as he said it - meaning that the statement would have to be demoted to 'exaggeration', since the author had deliberately destabilised it. So: if in book seven, Andromeda is revealed to be a Gryff, or Claw, or Puff, or member of the secret fifth house, or home schooled, or sent to Eton in an accidental swapping with Mary-Sue Whatsit, then that is more authoritative, and stands as canonical fact. Until then, Slughorn's statement is canonical fact.

I have to confess myself baffled. You clearly have no grasp of this issue, instead maundering on about why you don't like extrapolation, but do like explaining your unique understanding of Rowling accidentally forgetting about a character. Of course, if you have access to Rowling that we don't, and thus know that we are wrong to trust the Slughorn statement, because actually Andromeda was Tom Riddle trying to redeem himself, then share by all means. If not, go away, get a proper grasp of wikipedia's ongoing novel policy, and stop wasting my time by airing your fannish speculations and doubts about something which only yourself and the previous fool who thought s/he knew Rowling's level of forgetfulness think at all doubtful. Go and stick your doubts on some board where they will actually be appreciated, because wikipedia only deals in what is known. In this case, that "all the Black's were in Slytherin". Michaelsanders 01:41, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

 * No, it's not about trust or not trusting. Let me explain my issue--people get really involved in these arguments, for whatever reason, and go wild over anything they take as "proof." Like the Wiki.  Then, when something happens that contradicts it, the people who've staked a lot on those claims feel cheated (as with Charlie, or the people making the assumption that Bella was in Snape's year because she was part of his "gang of Slytherins").  I admit, I had a lot invested (and still do) in the OotP statement that Ted Tonks is a Muggle-born wizard, but I think, for the sake of fairness, that Rowling's jotting down that Andromeda married "a Muggle" on the family tree ought to be included in the article on Ted, unless (until, please until) JKR puts up a note on her website explaining that the Blacks would think of a Muggle-born the same as a Muggle, or that it was a typo, or something of that sort, because the confusion exists, and there are people who have said from the start that Ted was a Muggle, despite the naming of him as a Muggle-born in OotP.  I'd say that there are two contradictory pieces of evidence there.  With Andromeda, I'd say that it's likely from Sluggy's statement that she's in Slytherin, but it hasn't been confirmed.  It happened to be Andromeda's house that I started talking about here, just because I was dropping a note to agree with Rain74 that I didn't agree about Slughorn's statement being definitive, and that's what you challenged, so I presented ways that such a statement may not, in fact, pan out to be true if Rowling mentions Andromeda's house in book 7.  I'm not trying to read Rowling's mind or guess what she thinks of Andromeda; I'm just trying to say that the first mention of a thing in canon is not necessarily reliable unless it's absolutely specific.  It prevents let-downs later.  If people are staking their entire arguments on one line, and that line has the potential to be shrugged off, then it's better to say that it's probable but not definite, rather than playing a guessing game.  I love extrapolation in arguments; that's half the fun of them.  Is this possible?  Is that possible?  Maybe you stake a position and get a chance to crow when you turn out to be right.  That's fine.  Fun, even.  But in an article trying to nail down the actual known details of a character we haven't seen, a vague "all" statement probably isn't absolutely conclusive on the subject.  That's all.  I really wasn't trying to make a theoretical argument for any alternate position, just point out that the question could still be open, because it hasn't been addressed specifically WRT to Andromeda. Miss w 02:49, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia is not a conciliatory service. Its policies are not geared to prevent disappointment due to the progress of information release. It is designed to present the relevant facts as they are known. And I don't care if anyone is disappointed by whatever her house may turn out to be, or whatever Ted Tonks may turn out to be. I couldn't care less if she is not a Slytherin. I have no interest in being 'proved right or wrong'. What I care about is writing up what is in the books in an encyclopaedic and formal manner, so that readers can easily see what is known about the subject at this moment. That includes Andromeda's House. And if it turns out that Rowling has yet again led us up the garden path, it is the work of a minute tops to change the house reference. I for one won't particularly care, because it will have been changed to keep in line with the canonical facts. We clearly have different attitudes to wikipedia. You are effectively taking the fannish, "It isn't such and such until we can't deny it!" I am taking, here at least the, "Speculation or second guessing is irrelevant, we stick to what the author has told us" route. It is the latter which wikipedia bases novel articles upon. Therefore, I suggest you drop the issue. You are entirely right that, as with many issues, Rowling has left herself room for a 'get out' clause. That does not change the issue as it stands in canon (compare with Dumbledore. She initially left enough wiggle room for him to have faked his death. But wikipedia policy was, rightly, to stick to the canonical fact that he was dead). If you don't take this attitude, many of the HP articles will fall apart precisely because there is enough room for doubt in many 'facts'. Its the same with OR - there is inevitably a certain amount in all articles, because otherwise it could only be a few 'obvious' superficial points. Therefore, just accept for now that as canon stands, Andromeda was a Slytherin. And if Rowling says anything to the contrary, then that will become most recent fact, and hence canonical. And you will be welcome to crow. Michaelsanders 03:06, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

 * The question, though, is whether it's known to be true or assumed to be true. I think our basic disagreement is about whether an objective article is one that has things "true until something else happens" (your position) or "probably true unless proven otherwise" (my position).  It's a subtle distinction, which is probably why we're talking past each other.  We both accept that JKR is still free, within the parameters she set, to put Andromeda in a different house.  You said yourself that you would change it if she did so.  I think that means that her probable house affiliation should be couched as "probable" in an objective article (rather like suspects are referred to as "alleged" murderers/thieves/whatever until they are convicted, even if everyone and his dimwit full-giant brother knows they're guilty; it's just a way of not expressing bias on the subject); you seem to be taking the position that it is so until proven otherwise.  There may never be a definitive statement one way or the other--Andromeda is a character who doesn't even appear in the books (so far), after all--in which case, the formal and objective style would be to say that the text suggests such-and-such at X point, leading to the conclusion that [whatever], rather than that it says so, per se, unless it actually says so.  I would go with something along the line of "Horace Slughorn's statement, [exact quote here], suggests that she was placed in Slytherin House, though she has not been specifically named." Miss w 03:47, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

 * ...Apart from the quote itself, that is basically in the text. That information was never excluded. This debate began over the house listing in the info box - where, unless there is good reason to doubt the veracity of a statement, facts are not accompanied by explanations. But in any case, novels on wikipedia aren't set out like that. Pettigrew, for example, did not have a trial for his killing of 12 muggles, and never confessed. Therefore, by your standards, he is merely an alleged murderer, or manslaughterer. But that is not how it is set out, because if you turn everything into a case of legalities and technicalities, wikipedia can't function - or at least, the HP project cannot. Michaelsanders 12:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

 * That Peter did that isn't in canonical question, though--we know that he did. He may not have been convicted of it, and Sirius was, but those aren't really facts in question.  Those were specifically addressed in PoA--Peter sliced off his finger and blew up the Muggle street, and Sirius took the blame for it, and that's a major plot point.  Andromeda's house was only addressed with a kind of sideways blow that still only leaves it probable.  I guess I'd be more comfortable with not listing her house in the box at all than with listing something that still has the potential to change in the last book, rather than listing her probable House based on Slughorn's statement, and just mentioning in the text block that it's most likely, but not confirmed, to be Slytherin.  There are other people whose Houses we can't possibly list  because there are no clues at all, after all.  That's really all I'm saying, honest! :) Miss w 03:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Ah, but did he intend to kill them, or just cause confusion? Could be vital in a Court.

 * Can we just agree to leave the article, in this respect, basically as it is (excluding minor changes, perhaps adding Slughorn's quote)? Agreeing that, as soon as anything more becomes known (which I actually doubt to be honest), that will be incorporated into the article - whether it supports or destabilises Slughorn's claim? We will also make clear, if she turns out to have not been a Slytherin, how the confusion arose. But until then, can we please just keep the article in line with canon. Thanks! Michaelsanders 12:26, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, sure--that's why I didn't actually change the article! I'd actually hoped that the conversation would include more than the two of us, to see what the general consensus is.  I'd still feel more comfortable not listing her House in the box, but if that's the general consensus ruling, despite the fact that I don't think Slughorn's line is really enough to establish it canonically--it's just not certain enough to state it as a fact--I don't have objections.  And no one other than us seems to care! Miss w 06:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Well, to be honest, it is a pretty trivial matter. Andromeda hasn't even been in the books, so she'll hardly get people riled regarding her house placement. However, if that's all, I think we can safely leave this issue until, either someone else intervenes, or Rowling gives us more information. Until then, I think we've pretty much finished this off. Michaelsanders 10:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Hair colour
It's stated that Andromeda's hair must be mousy brown because her daughter's is, right? Can't be - her sisters have blonde and black hair, respectively. Unless one of them is a half-sibling, she must have either blonde or black hair. Tonks probably gets her hair colour from her father. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.107.0.230 (talk • contribs).

 * Conversely, she could just be unconsciously mimicking Remus's light brown hair that year. But it's distinctly possible, genetically, for Andromeda to be a brunette.  Narcissa got seriously recessive genes, but if one of the parents had brown hair (and blond/brown genotype) and the other had black hair (black/blond genotype), then it's quite possible that she got a brown and blond gene and ended up a brunette. Miss w 04:35, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

 * She seems to be brunette (DH5), but as Teddy Lupin is a metamorphomagus, as his mother, she could be one as well, it does seem to have something to do with genetics. Diana Prallon 19:57, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

Importance in the series
Why does Andromeda have her own article? She has not even appeared in canon. Lord Opeth 00:19, 5 July 2007 (UTC)

Tragic Character
Poor Andromeda, first she gets disowned from her family for the man she loves, then years later she loses her husband, daughter, and son-in-law in war.She truly is a sorrow-stricken character.

 * Sorry, but this is not a forum (WP:FORUM). This talk page is designed to discuss information concerning the article, not the character.  Please take this kind of comment to a forum for more open discussion.  Also, please sign your comments. Kochdude388 20:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

merge
This is yet another article on a character that barely has any impact on the book, much less the real world in which we all live. There will never be enough secondary sources to establish this character's notability, so it should be merged to the minor characters article. Natalie 15:19, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree...the articles concerning Teddy Lupin and Victoire Weasley are also unneeded, as they provided very little to the story. Kochdude388 20:03, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

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Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class

The Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class is a compact executive roadster, produced by Mercedes-Benz. It was released in 1996 and was built at the Mercedes plant in Bremen, Germany, until the end of production in 2020.

The former name "SLK" was derived from sportlich (sporty), leicht (lightweight), and kurz (short). With the release of the facelift R172 in 2016, the SLK-Class was renamed to SLC-Class in accordance with the revised nomenclature adopted by Mercedes. Under this scheme, roadsters use the base name "SL", followed by the model's placement in Mercedes-Benz hierarchy, the letter "C", being the roadster equivalent to the C-Class.

First generation (R170; 1995–2004)

The R170 Mercedes SLK was the first generation compact roadster produced by Mercedes-Benz, from 1995 to 2004. It was designed from late 1991 under Bruno Sacco, with a final design being completed in early 1993 and approved by the board, with a German design patent filed on September 30, 1993. The production SLK-Class was introduced at the Turin Motor Show on 22 April 1996, appearing as a modern incarnation of the 1950s Mercedes-Benz 190SL, by returning to four cylinders and with an identical 94 in wheelbase. A facelift was introduced to all models in 2000, featuring an updated design and updated engines.

Second generation (R171; 2003–2010)

The R171 SLK was unveiled at the 2004 Geneva Motor Show. It features increased use of high-strength steel, and improvements to the car's torsional strength and aerodynamic efficiency. Models feature a more compact, revised roof mechanism that is operated in 22 seconds (previously 25 seconds), resulting in an increase in boot capacity by 63 liters. The R171 also introduced the Airscarf system that integrates neck-level heating system into the headrests of the car. The front-end design of the car was inspired by the noses found in Formula One cars. It was facelifted in 2008 and featured new engines and minor exterior design changes.

Third generation (R172; 2011–2020)

The R172 SLK was released in 2011. It was available with a range of inline-four, V6, and V8, diesel and petrol engines, and introduced an electronically operated window tint shade for the sunroof, called Magic Sky Control. A facelift was released for vehicles produced from March 2016, to coincide with the 20th anniversary of the SLK-Class. The model range was also renamed to SLC-Class to conform to the new Mercedes nomenclature, and introduced new engines and a revised design. In 2020, Mercedes-Benz released a Final Edition to commemorate the end of the car's production run.

Sales figures
The following are the sales figures for the SLK-Class since 2001:

title: Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class


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Augustdorf

Augustdorf is a municipality in the Lippe district of North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. It has an area of 42.18 km2 and about 10,100 inhabitants (2020).

History
In 1775 Simon August, Count of Lippe-Detmold issued a writ of lease (Meierbrief) for the area of today's Augustdorf in favour of August Simon Struß, permitting him to establish a settlement (colony) at Dören hill. In 1779 the actual development plan for the settlement was decided, but the place hardly developed. In 1780 the settlement at Dören consisted of only four tiny thatched huts. In 1789 the settlement was named in honour of Count Simon August.

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User:Chris 73/Gallery

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Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class

The Mercedes-Benz CLK-Class is a former series of mid-size or entry-level luxury coupés and convertibles produced by Mercedes-Benz between 1996 and 2010. Although its design and styling was derived from the E-Class, the mechanical underpinnings were based on the smaller C-Class, and was positioned between the Mercedes-Benz SLK-Class and CL-Class. The name CLK is either derived from the German words "Coupé", "Luxus" (luxury) and "Kurz" (short) or "Coupé", "Leicht" (light) and "Kurz" (short), as the clear definition was never published. It primarily competes with the two-door BMW 3 and 6 Series, as well as the Audi A4 Cabriolet and Audi A5 Coupe/Cabriolet, as well as the Maserati Coupe and its convertible variant.

Prior to the CLK-Class, the Mercedes E-Class included a Coupé alongside the saloon/wagon. In 2010, Mercedes changed the CLK-Class nameplate to the E-Class Coupe/Cabriolet; nonetheless this E-Class Coupe/Cabriolet is still based upon the C-Class platform while borrowing the brand and styling/design from the E-Class saloon/wagon. Then for the 2017-2023 model years, the Mercedes E-Class Coupé/Cabriolet shared the platform from the E-Class saloon/wagon. For the 2024 model year, Mercedes is releasing the CLE-Class which like the CLK-Class will share platforms and components with the C-Class and E-Class.

First generation (C208/A208; 1996–2003)

The first-generation C208/A208 CLK was introduced in 1997, and was based on the W202 Mercedes-Benz C-Class launched three years earlier. The C208 coupé was replaced by the C209 CLK-Class in 2002 (for the 2003 model year), although the convertible remained in production until March 2003 when replaced by the A209 CLK. In total 233,367 units of the first generation CLK were manufactured in its coupé form and additional 115,161 cabriolets.

Second generation (C209/A209; 2001–2009)

The Mercedes-Benz C209/A209 is the second generation CLK-Class, and was launched in 2002 with production starting in June. The car was available in both hardtop coupé (C209) and in soft-top convertible form (A209), with a choice of petrol and diesel engines. At introduction, a 2.6-litre V6, a 3.2-litre V6, 5.0-litre V8, 5.4-litre V8 petrol engines, and a 2.1 4 cylinder diesel 2.7L inline-5 diesel and a 3.0 v6 diesel engine with a decent 6.5 sec 0-60 figure where all available. Fuel economy wise between the 2.7 and the 3.0 the v6 was the better option due to a much better performance figure and negligible fuel economy difference In 2010, the CLK lineup was discontinued and replaced by the C207 E-Class coupé and A207 E-Class convertible. o

Successor (C207/A207; 2008–2017)
The C207/A207 E-Class was introduced as part of the new fourth-generation E-Class lineup, and was first shown at the 2009 Geneva Motor Show. It is based on the W204 C-Class platform, but shares 60% of its parts with the E-Class sedan and wagon. In 2013, the C207/A207 received a facelift, featuring updated design changes and performance and fuel economy improvements.

Sales figures
The following are the sales figures in Europe and in the United States:

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User:Chris 73/Other Images

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Talk:Clonidine

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I've been on a lot of medications used to treat my anxiety. The only drug that seemed to help me was Lorazapan, but over time it doesnt have nearly the same effect compared to when I first used it. Clonidine, however, has helped me and many others that are having high anxiety type issues. I just think this page needs a touch about how it can help anxiety, and also the long term effects of this specific medication. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.30.235.251 (talk) 06:19, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Contrary to the article as written, I do not think Clonidine is generally used to "treat" ADHD, although many ADHD children receive it, off label at bedtime, to induce sleep. I suspect same is true with Tourette's although I am less certain of that. Although I am not qualified to prescribe, I deal with many children with both diagnoses and I only see it prescribed for use at bedtime. It is a sleep medication of choice because it does not have addictive potential and it does get the kids to slow down physically at bedtime. But I do not think any clinician would want children taking it because of ADHD during the active part of their day. Also note that clonidine and Klonopin are BOTH used to induce sleep (although not likely at the same time for the same person).

I looked at the study cited where the citation suggests otherwise. However that is not what the actual article says. It refers to a test of Ritalin and Clonidine used in combination. While I have not encountered this with children I have worked with (unless the Clonidine was administered only at bedtime) the COMBINATION makes sense. But I still doubt that Clonidine, by itself, is an appropriate treatment for either disorder. 70.90.220.214 22:04, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

There is a lot of info on this page[] --Clawed 05:07, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Unless I got the wrong drug, Clonidine is also used off-label to treat insomnia. I once took it when I was young in really small doses. --User:Arm

 * You're probably thinking of clonazepam (Klonopin). - Nunh-huh 05:43, 3 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I was recently (yesterday) perscribed Clonidine by my psychiatrist for dealing with panic attacks and additionally to help with insomnia -- Anonymous 19:44, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

clonidine can be used for ADHD treatment and tics treatment in children(Dr Hussein Abdeldayem, Alex, Egypt)

I was prescribed clonidine specifically for my mild Tourette's syndrome, and it works very well. VCUchem 03:28, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

My son, 4.5 years old, has been on clonidine for two week to treat ADD, his prescription is 0.05mg. It is working well, but worried about longterm negative effects. Any articles? (user:woodmac)(December 18 2008)

Clonidine Transdermal "patch" .3 Is currently being used to treat my daughter's Cycling Vomiting Syndrome. see ref: http://digestive.niddk.nih.gov/ddiseases/pubs/cvs/#6 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Morrisindustries (talk • contribs) 12:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Quitting smoking
The Surgeon General suggests that Clonidine can be used to aid in quitting smoking after nicotine replacement methods have failed. A potential source is http://surgeongeneral.gov/tobacco/treating_tobacco_use.pdf

Side-effects?
Did anyone ever hear of very bad chest and back pain with this medicine? Taking it four times a day, and my upper back and chest is killing me

Your side effect was probably a rare reaction. The only side effect I experienced was being extremely tired at first.

The most popular understated side effect of this medication is, for lack any milder way to put it, catastrophic loss of consciousness. Not so much "put them out like a light", but more like drop them like a punch from Mike Tyson, where they stand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.127.80.59 (talk) 11:57, 27 September 2011 (UTC)

VCUchem 03:24, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Cleanup
This page is a candidate for cleanup. I propose that all of the benzodiazepines be wikified at once. The benzodiazepines are a significant family of drugs, and better information should be available here on Wikipedia, due to their widespread use.

 * Clonidine is not a benzodiazepine.

You must be thinking of Klonopin (clonazepam).

[Speaking of which, does clonodine actually treat restless leg syndrome? or is that another klonopin accident? On the Restless legs syndrome wiki, clonidine is not mentioned...] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.179.160.18 (talk) 08:05, 5 June 2018 (UTC) I agree that a lot of people do not understand that Klonopin is a completely different medication than clonadine!
 * Clonidine can indeed be used in the treatment of RLS. I've cited this statement in the article to clarify the point. Thank you for the notification! ― Bio chemistry 🙴 ❤   23:37, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

Creditation
Clonidine is often used to treat tics, specifically Tourettes Disorder, due to research by Dr. Richard Ferre, M.D. of University of Utah. I do not have a link to the specific paper, but you can find it on a Google search "Richard Ferre"

Yea, i have Tourettes and i take this. EvilHom3r 18:49, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

I have used the patch form of this medicine before to treat parts/symptoms of Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder, and it seems to work pretty well. User: mansharker8 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 207.157.138.39 (talk) 01:35, 30 October 2007 (UTC)

Clean-Up (again?)
The muddle with clonazepam (Klonopin) here remains - for a start, one of the most common side effects of clonidine is insomnia (see the British National Formulary entry - probably same info listing in the Physicians Desk Ref too...) and I can hardly see it being rx'd for such. Indeed, its one of the drawbacks of using it for opiate withdrawal as the resultant insomnia can be severe and prolonged even after the acute symptons are over. In the UK, it is usually therefore prescribed for this purpose along with strong benzos such as Rohypnol or with benzo/chlorpromazine combinations to overcome this lack of efficacy. Anyway, someone ought to clear this up some more. If no-one better qualied tries, 'll come back and have a go. Plutonium27 (talk) 02:47, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Adrenergic Agonist AND NE antagonist?
How is this drug a "α2 adrenergic agonist" AND "inhibits the release of norepinephrine (NE)". Can someone explain? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 144.126.53.164 (talk) 11:51, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

In response to "Adrenergic Agonist AND NE antagonist?" I was wondering the same thing, as I'm at work researching Clonidine. I found this on a website: "Clonidine is an agonist, an alpha-2 agonist to be precise. But it acts primarily on noradrenergic autoreceptors thereby decreasing norepinephrine release. Thus clonidine is a direct-acting a2-noradrenergic agonist with indirect-acting antagonist action at other noradrenergic targets. (It has the physiological/behavioral effect of an antagonist at most doses, but it's still technically an agonist!) " —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.63.110.9 (talk) 07:33, 15 January 2010 (UTC)

Clonodine
Clonodine is not Klonopin (clonazepam), it is not a benzodiazepine like (Valium, diazepam, Xanax, alprazolam, Ativan, lorazepam). etc... Clonidine is used alone or in combination with other medications to treat high blood pressure. Clonidine is in a class of medications called centrally acting alpha-agonist hypotensive agents. It works by decreasing your heart rate and relaxing the blood vessels so that blood can flow more easily through the body. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmedhealth/PMH0000623 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jodiah (talk • contribs) 20:47, 29 June 2010 (UTC)

Structure
I'm no expert, but do the two structure models agree? The 3D model shows both N atoms of the imidazoline ring with H's (implying imidazolidine), whereas the planar model shows N at position 2 with no H (imizazoline). The 3D model shows the N of the amine with no H and the planar model shows it with one. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.244.145.200 (talk) 00:38, 8 December 2010 (UTC)

You are absolutely right. It is a mistake and should be corrected. The 3D model is missing one H atom. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.175.69.2 (talk • contribs) 19:04, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Uses
There are two "Uses" paragraphs in the article. Should be restructured. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Vbond (talk • contribs) 06:25, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

Other uses: I deleted everything but RLS, as the others were all mentioned in the "Uses" section. I propose that "Uses" should be for approved uses and "other uses" for off-label uses, as this is often how drug articles are structured. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.76.210.124 (talk) 04:49, 6 February 2012 (UTC)

Clonidine in combination with Methedone or Suboxone
Clonidine is also given in conjuction with methedone/suboxone to combat excessive persperation. It is rarely given alone to combat the affects of opioid withdrawls. When combined with methedone/suboxone it has shown evidence of improving comfort levels when it comes to exessive persperation. The typical does when combine with methedone is 0.1-0.2 micrograms twice daily. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.115.132.133 (talk) 20:07, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't believe that the article claims that clonidine is used as monotherapy for opioid withdrawal, so I don't really see the point of your comment. However, it is not unusual for clonidine to be used alone; opioid substitution therapy isn't necessarily always employed. ― Bio chemistry 🙴 ❤   23:32, 3 October 2018 (UTC)

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Citation update
Does there exist any more-recent paper that supports the citation no.2 - Lowenthal, DT; Matzek, KM; MacGregor, TR (May 1988). "Clinical pharmacokinetics of clonidine.". Clinical Pharmacokinetics. 14 (5): 287–310. . doi:10.2165/00003088-198814050-00002 ? Thanks! : ) -- It's gonna be awesome! ✎ Talk♬  16:32, 8 September 2017 (UTC)

slow pulse
Other sources say that clonidine makes pulse get slower because of more action by the vagus nerve. This article says the idea that clonidine slows the heart because of tightening of the arteries but there is no reference. Which is right? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 152.133.8.193 (talk) 16:18, 15 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Very observant. It's my understanding that this isn't all too-well understood; it may indeed be a combination of multiple mechanisms, including those. A paper from 1995 notes the following:

"The exact mechanism responsible for this clonidine-associated bradycardia is not well understood. The most plausible mechanisms are: (a) reduced sympathetic tone from central mediators, (b) increased vagal activity, (c) stimulation of presynaptic alpha-2 receptors in the heart which have a blocking effect on heart rate, (d) decreased automaticity of the bundles of His, and (e) atrioventricular nodal block. It is probable that the mechanisms vary from patient to patient."

- Lawrence L. Golusinski, Jr. and B. Wayne Blount

 * If anyone can find a more recent source to confirm this speculation, it would be greatly appreciated. ― Bio chemistry 🙴 ❤   18:53, 15 July 2018 (UTC)

Which receptor?
User:Sbelknap what are your thoughts on this diff? Jytdog (talk) 13:42, 8 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Interesting, as there seems to be an error in this low-quality article, so I've removed the citation. The best citation is the Goodman and Gilman one on page 202 of the 13th edition. Its post-synaptic alpha 2 agonism in vascular smooth muscle that gives the transient rise in blood pressure. I notice that John Reid mentions both mechanisms in his article, citing Doxey et al for the alpha 1 mechanism and citing Drew and Whiting for the post-synaptic alpha 2 mechanism. I'll ask Tom Westfall, who wrote the Goodman and Gilman chapter, what he thinks. Sbelknap (talk) 18:12, 11 August 2018 (UTC)

Semantic Scholar
The Semantic Scholar PDF is not the article. It is just the abstract. It is misleading and confusing to click on the link and end up on a random unrelated site that doesn't provide the article. --Whywhenwhohow (talk) 20:05, 12 September 2020 (UTC) !Should probably remove un-licensed Semantic Scholar URL that was converted to S2CID parameter
 * The Citation bot added the s2cid and reports that the Semantic Scholar URL is not licensed. I am removing the unlicensed URL. --Whywhenwhohow (talk) 20:51, 12 September 2020 (UTC)
 * +Adding s2cid: 40756251

Conflicting structural formulae
Stick and ball strucutural formula shows the bridging Nitrogen without a Hydrogen. It shows both ring Nitrogens with a Hydrogen.

Letter structural formula shows bridge Nitrogen with a Hydrogen and one of the ring Nitrogens without a Hydrogen.

The following, currently reference 1, puts the Hydrogen on the bridging Nitrogen.

https://dailymed.nlm.nih.gov/dailymed/drugInfo.cfm?setid=d7f569dc-6bed-42dc-9bec-940a9e6b090d

2600:387:B:9A2:0:0:0:9 (talk) 08:46, 3 August 2021 (UTC) Drive By Editor

Selectivity
, you keep changing the "alpha-2 agonist" to "alpha-2a agonist". The issue is the body doesn't support the selectivity for 2a (as it does in the guanfacine article). If you want to keep changing it to alpha-2a, please provide a source that supports clonidine being more selective for alpha-2a than the others. Kimen8 (talk) 13:33, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

 * My apologies, it does indicate alpha-2a selectivity. Kimen8 (talk) 15:24, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

Depression
In Germany a depression is considered a contraindication to clonidine. This seems plausible because of the old-school depression theory of a cerebral lack of sympathetic neuro-transmitters. Interestingly dexmedetomidine, having the same or similar pharmacodynamics, is now a candidate for treatment of otherwise non-treatable depression. Could someone elaborate on that? Elmar Hagemeyer (talk) 12:52, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Clonidine


text:
Dörentrup

Dörentrup is a municipality in the Lippe district of North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany. It has an area of 49.79 km2 and c. 8,000 inhabitants (2013).

The name is derived from the Low German word for hill passes, Dören.

Night lighting scheme
A remarkable feature in this village is its night lighting scheme. Every night at 11 pm, all street lights turn off. Inhabitants can then request that lights be turned back on as needed by sending a code to a special phone number called Dial4light. Each street has its own code that can be found either online on a specific website or on each light post. This is intended to reduce energy use, save money, respect the nocturnal fauna and avoid light pollution.

title: Dörentrup


text:
Extertal

Extertal is a municipality in the Lippe district of North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany, with c. 11,500 inhabitants (2013).

Extertal is located on the northern edge of the circle in the Teutoburg Nature Reserve, directly adjacent to Lower Saxony. The Exter and Humme rivers flow through the region. The municipality has its headquarters in the Bösingfeld district. Neighbouring cities are Rinteln, Aerzen, Barntrup, Dörentrup and Kalletal.

The highest point of the city is at 371 metres above sea level. The municipality dimensions are about 12.2 kilometres east-west and about 12.5 kilometres north-south.

Mayors
Elected in September 2020, the mayor of Extertal is Frank Meier.

Churches and religious communities

 * Evangelical Reformed Church (Church of Lippe) in Bösingfeld, Mittelstrasse 33
 * Evangelical Reformed Church (Church of Lippe) in Almena, Kirchstrasse 1, 32699 Extertal-Almena
 * Evangelical Reformed Church (Church of Lippe) in Silixen, Dietrich-Bonhoeffer-Strasse 5
 * Catholic Church: Adolf-Kolping-Weg 1
 * Free Evangelical Community: Mühlenstrasse 4
 * Jehovah's Witnesses: Papenweg 2
 * New Apostolic Church: Bahnhofstrasse

title: Extertal


text:
Ian Goldberg

Ian Avrum Goldberg (born March 31, 1973) is a cryptographer and cypherpunk. He is best known for breaking Netscape's implementation of SSL (with David Wagner), and for his role as chief scientist of Radialpoint (formerly Zero Knowledge Systems), a Canadian software company. Goldberg is currently a professor at the Faculty of Mathematics of the David R. Cheriton School of Computer Science within the University of Waterloo, and the Canada Research Chair in Privacy Enhancing Technologies. He was formerly Tor Project board of directors chairman, and is one of the designers of off the record messaging.

Education
He attended high school at the University of Toronto Schools, graduating in 1991. In 1995, he received a B.Math from the University of Waterloo in pure mathematics and computer science. He obtained a Ph.D. from the University of California, Berkeley in December 2000. His thesis was entitled A Pseudonymous Communications Infrastructure for the Internet. His advisor was Eric Brewer.

Accomplishments
As a high school student, Goldberg was a member of Canada's team to the International Math Olympiad from 1989 to 1991, where he received a bronze, silver, and gold medal respectively. He was also a member of University of Waterloo team that won the ACM International Collegiate Programming Contest in 1994. In 1998, Wired Magazine chose him as a member of the "Wired 25". In 2011 he won the EFF Pioneer Award. In 2019, he won the USENIX Security Test of Time Award along with his colleagues David Wagner and Randi Thomas and former PhD supervisor Eric Brewer. In 2023, he was named an ACM Fellow.

Work in cryptography
In 1995, Goldberg with David Wagner discovered a flaw in the random number generator used for temporary key generation in the SSL implementation of Netscape Navigator.

One of the first cryptanalyses on the WEP wireless encryption protocol was conducted by Goldberg with Nikita Borisov and David Wagner, revealing serious flaws in its design.

Goldberg was a co-author of the Off-the-Record instant messaging encryption protocol. He is also the author of the Perl script included in the novel Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson.

In 2009 Goldberg was co-author of the Sphinx Mix Format, which is nowadays implemented with the extension of a per-hop payload to increase the privacy of both payer and payee while routing Bitcoin payments through the Lightning Network.

Vitalik Buterin, co-founder of Ethereum, was a research assistant of Goldberg while a student at the University of Waterloo.

Goldberg is a member of the Cryptography, Security and Privacy group as well as the Cybersecurity and Privacy Institute (CPI). He has been collaborating with the CPI works on the development of a new interdisciplinary research and education program.

title: Ian Goldberg