text:
User talk:Samadhi~enwiki

Hi, welcome to Wikipedia! I've rolled back your edit to "In the News", because there was no Wikipedia article to go with it. Wikipedia is designed to be an encyclopedia, not a news site; as such, we only update ITN with articles that have been updated with the new information (these are the bolded links). For example, after Lance Armstrong won his sixth Tour de France, we could put up Lance Armstrong wins his sixth Tour de France, because the Lance Armstrong article was updated. Since nothing in the item you mentioned really warrants an update to an article, I removed it. Best, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 16:12, 2004 Aug 4 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Samadhi. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Samadhi~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

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Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 02:49, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 18:26, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Samadhi~enwiki


text: Category:Finnish athletes

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Category:Finnish athletes


text:
User talk:WikiSimon

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Replaceable fair use Image:Psychonauts_RazMoon.jpg
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title: User talk:WikiSimon


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Serindian art

There is no article on this page. There is only a reference to a book that somehow must be related to Serindian art. Richardsur 16:25, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: It's also true that there is nothing in the history.  Could be a speedy. Geogre 17:33, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep: I'm delighted to change my vote and to learn something about the topic. Geogre 01:17, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Wait. Delete if not expanded by the end of VfD and if we do not here from User:jmclean. This user has a real user page, where he lists Serindian art as one of his contributions and says he has been "editing since April 2004." I've put a note on his Talk page saying:
 * Are you going to write something more at Serindian art? It's currently listed on Votes for deletion/Serindian art because a single book reference isn't much of an article. Drop by VfD and say something to let us know your intentions. If you're on vacation or something and it gets deleted, don't worry—just reinsert it when you have about a paragraph of good, meaningful content to put there. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 00:44, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * (I know that technically speaking if something has been deleted, too-prompt reinsertion is cause for speedy redeletion but I am sure we would not do that if the reinserted article were a decent stub, or better).

[[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 00:44, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Bad suggestion, IMO, bcz it needlessly blurs our policies, and bcz i would probably look for & speedy-delete it w/o considering it on the merits. There is a Votes for undeletion page to serve the purpose you raise. --Jerzy(t) 05:44, 2004 Aug 9 (UTC)

 * Delete - not an article. -- Cyrius|✎ 20:07, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * It's a stub. Trust Dpbsmith enough to not question validity. Keep. -- Cyrius|✎ 18:15, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, is now a decent stub. - SimonP 17:14, Aug 8, 2004 (UTC)


text: Category:Greek athletes

title: Category:Greek athletes


text:
Talk:Round Table (band)

Requested move
Official band title. Full capitalization for bands is not unusual in Japan. — Tokek 01:23, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

Please note: the "Moved from the Votes for Deletion page" section exists for archival purposes only, and isn't meant to be further edited. —Tokek 01:34, 17 September 2005 (UTC)

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional explanation, then sign your vote with ~

 * Support, their website justifies this. gren グレン 21:13, 19 September 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it be moved. This proposed move violates our conventions, which say in part, that we do not use unconvential capitalizations for common words. As such I will not be moving it. However, I would like to thank the nominator for pointing out a pervasive problem with Japanese music groups, many of which have now been corrected. Dragons flight 23:20, 29 September 2005 (UTC)

 * A similar debate is going on at Talk:iPod Nano on whether the article title should be "iPod nano" or "iPod Nano." It's unfortunate that action was taken to close this debate prematurely based on one user's bias. —Tokek 16:09, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments

Moved from the Votes for Deletion page
From VfD:

Google shows only a page about an obscure Tokyo Gig and a few people's Winamp playlists. Is this worthy of Wikipedia? Aljandy 16:18, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * [ Not a vote] Try this then: "ROUND TABLE featuring Nino" because ROUND TABLE is obfuscated with King Arthur... -- EmperorBMA|話す 16:21, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * [ Not a vote] Also discography includes a well known anime, Chobits and 2 other anime. -- EmperorBMA|話す 16:26, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * DELETE. ALL CAPS BUG ME. Gamaliel 18:08, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * All caps bug you? Under that logic, we should get rid of CLAMP. Keep; I think the songs they've done on just the animes listed gives them enough notability that it's quite possible that someone could look them up on wikipedia. - RedWordSmith 19:17, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * It was a joke. I voted for  delete because I don't think this band is important enough to be encyclopedic. Gamaliel 19:25, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * The Japanese Wikipedia has an article about it (in fact that's exactly where the material comes from). -- EmperorBMA|話す 21:00, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * [ Not a vote] Why is it in all caps? If they are a significant band in Japan, shouldn't they be as Round Table (band) or somesuch link? Average Earthman 20:36, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * The reason it is all caps is because that is the official title of the band. Same rationale as CLAMP... See: http://www.round-table.jp/ -- EmperorBMA|話す 20:55, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Many companies and bands and other self-important entities create an "official name" in ALL CAPS because it draws attention. Publications usually ignore their wishes and follow standard English capitalization rules, since things CAN BECOME hard to READ otherwise ... but Wikipedia is not consistent in this area. - DavidWBrooks 21:08, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Perhaps we should have a separate vote for article capitalization in addition to the deletion vote? -- EmperorBMA|話す 21:16, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * If the band's official name is spelled with ALL CAPS, then the Wikipedia article should refer to them in ALL CAPS. Vote: Keep.  Sean Curtin

Note: The purpose of this page is to determine whether ROUND TABLE should be deleted, including both the title and the text. The issue of capitalization is relevant only if someone thinks their preference for full caps is a sign of their insignificance, which no one seems to have yet proposed (except as a joke). Via strikeouts, i have refactored out nearly all the capitalization discussion.
 * [ Not a vote] Quite a significant band. Full capitalization is not at all uncommon in j-pop groups. Rhymeless 23:57, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. But they really should have thought about how it'd look on VfD before they named the band in all caps. Rhobite 03:33, Aug 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * [not a vote] Yes, quite true, I'll be sure to inform them at once. Rhymeless 03:40, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. There are articles on less known bands. bbx 14:29, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Ephemeral fancruft. Wile E. Heresiarch 15:55, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep Rhymeless 06:57, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep EmperorBMA|話す 14:33, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

If you want to express an opinion against capitalization, bear in mind that a vote to redirect is a vote to keep the text, with essentially a recomendation that the current title become a redirect to a different title; future editors may take that opinion into account and/or use redirect votes or their absence to bludgeon others with, but all you are really voting on is keep versus delete. --Jerzy(t) 06:33, 2004 Aug 9 (UTC)

end moved dicussion

Casing issue
On the one hand, attempt to even have a discussion on this issue was prematurely closed, on the other hand, it doesn't really make sense not to talk about this. My proposal is to have casing information in the article that complies with whatever that is permissible at WP:MOS-TM, along side with information on actual usage outside of Wikipedia. Similar examples of what I'm thinking of include: What I am attempting is presenting information without distortion. Please add a reply if you disagree with this proposal, but avoid unconstructive insults. —Tokek 20:56, 8 November 2007 (UTC)
 * "Sicko (or SiCKO) is a 2007..." over at Sicko
 * "Se7en (also known as Seven) is" over at Se7en (interestingly, btw, the article was moved from Seven (movie) to Se7en, which apparently doesn't require the extra parenthesis and piped links.)

title: Talk:Round Table (band)


text:
Talk:MPEG-4

Unreliable
I removed the link http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=29679 from the bottom section because it seems to be having persistent redirect errors. I replaced it with a link from an "engadget.com" page, which is not a high quality link, but the best I could find in 5 minutes (my allotted time for such things). Please feel free to replace it, or put it back if/when the theinquirer.net link is healed.

Tzf 20:32, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

 * The link seems to work for me, but I've added a more interesting one so if the original one is unreliable, we can use yours and this new one. Stephen B Streater 22:06, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * 8 yers old I am in 3 clas 2406:B400:D4:22ED:A1A1:31D2:4397:9F81 (talk) 04:55, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

Hinting
I'm working on a website in which we have a choice of viewing MPG files or MP4s. When implemented the same way, however, the MPG files stream, while the MP4 files wait for the entire file to load. See example here: http://www.proimagestudios.com/newsite/movtest

I used Cleaner 6 to compile the MP4, and was wondering if there was a setting or something I could change to make the MP4 stream in the same way the MPG did.

Thanks, Gregory Gritmon www.gregorygritmon.com GSquaredDesign@aol.com

Hi Greg. mp4 files stream really well. You need to open the files in Quicktime Pro & export as 'Hinted Movie' to enable them to stream (this is presuming that your other setting are correct. Try by passing Cleaner 6 with a single file first.

Cheers

James Frameline.tv

You can generalize "Hinting". Quicktime is not the only tool out there that does hinting, and of course, Quicktime does not guarantee that MPEG-4 elements not natively supported by quicktime (such as BIFS) are passed through to the output. Envivio makes some products that are capable of hinting, but they're probably too damned expensive ;^) Tzf

Licensing section
MPEG-4 is patented proprietary technology. This means that, although the software to create and play back MPEG-4 videos is easily available, a licence is needed to use it legally. I wonder if something should be mentioned about who owns MPEG-4, and how to license it. In particular, MPEG Licensing Authority can license some of the patents required for MPEG-4 visual (audio is more complex). Unfortunately, the one stop shop idea is currently open to doubt: this article claims that AT&T is suing companies such as Apple over alleged MPEG-4 patent infringement. Stephen B Streater 12:20, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

Proposed wording
MPEG-4 is patented proprietary technology. This means that, although the software to create and play back MPEG-4 videos may be readily available, a licence is needed to use it legally. Patents covering MPEG-4 are claimed by over two dozen companies. There is no simple way to license MPEG-4, but the MPEG Licensing Authority can license patents from a wide range of companies required for MPEG-4 visual techniques (audio is licensed separately). A one stop shop is currently not possible: this article claims that AT&T is suing companies such as Apple over alleged MPEG-4 patent infringement. This AT&T action against Apple illustrates that it is hard to know how many companies have patents covering MPEG-4. Stephen B Streater 14:33, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Added this in with a couple of refinements. Stephen B Streater 19:09, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

Part 2 and Quicktime
The article implies that SP and ASP are the only profiles of MPEG-4 Part 2 I however I know the following exist:

Ref: http://www.m4if.org/resources/mpeg4userfaq.php#ArbitraryObjects
 * Core
 * Main
 * N-bit
 * Advanced Coding Efficiency
 * Core Scalable
 * Simple (SP)
 * Simple Scalable
 * Advanced Real Time Simple
 * Advanced Scalable Texture
 * Advanced Simple (ASP)
 * Fine Granularity Scalable

The MPEG-4 Part 2 article mentions 21 profiles. Because of this I think the claim that the 5G iPod supports all of part 2 may be incorrect. I'd like to see a citation that it supports all 21 profiles.

--70.39.108.127 05:30, 19 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Nice find. If this iPod supported all of part 2, it'd be the only device to ever do so! Personally I suspect many of the profiles have never been implemented (and never will be), but I've never attempted to verify this suspicion... Snacky 00:31, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Very confusing
Lots of words, very little explaination. This article should be made much easier for people researching before buying an mpeg-4 player etc. The article should begin with a conscise definition of mpeg-4, continue onto what it encapsulates, file formats, comparison with other codecs. If I have made technical mistakes, its because this article is misleading :P Chris 05:28, 27 September 2006 (UTC) I agree, I can hardly make head nor tail of this article. 218.214.138.11 07:46, 11 July 2007 (UTC) Talk about confusing; the Apple links should be removed because they make it sound as if MPEG4 was developed intimately with Apple Quicktime. This is all very deceptive spin on Apple's part and has no place in an article such as this. I propose to remove them. Freddy011 (talk) 01:29, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

File extensions?
I'm not shopping for an mpeg-4 player, but I was hoping for some clues on how to recognize an mpeg-4 file. Are specific extensions used? Which? Does the extension matter? Also, can any mpeg-4 codec be used with any mpeg-4 file? If not, why not? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Preserved killick (talk • contribs) 21:16, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Alternatives section
The Alternatives section seems far too lengthy and prominent. There's more information in this article on what to use other than MPEG-4 than information on what it does and how it works. Maybe not quite NPOV-violating, but does have the air of an anti-patent troll Slashdotting things up (why wouldn't proprietary options like Windows Media, Real, or QuickTime also be considered "alternatives"?) Maybe the alternatives stuff should be a different article, or maybe it wouldn't be as bad if there were more meat to the article (for example, material on MPEG-4 performance, compatibility, popular uses, history, design theory, etc.). Invalidname Wed Dec 6 02:44:44 GMT 2006

What's next?
What codec is being planned after MPEG-4? --24.249.108.133 21:47, 27 September 2006 (UTC)
 * As of 2010, a new video standard is currently being developed under the name of High Efficiency Video Coding (or H.265 or H.264+), designed to succeed H.264/MPEG-4 AVC. However, it'll probably still fall under the MPEG-4 umbrella. In audio, due to lack of demand, most development takes the form of extensions to AAC, with the latest being MPEG-4 SLS (HD-AAC) and MPEG-4 ALS, both of which are still MPEG-4. The other parts of the standard are even more stagnant. C xong (talk) 01:01, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

No inventor/organization's name?
As far as I know MPEG-4 is by Hong Kong University of Science and Technology.

http://www.ust.hk/~webopa/news/2000_News/news0613.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.153.0.155 (talk) 03:34, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Read the part that says "agreed upon by the ISO/IEC Moving Picture Experts Group (MPEG) under the formal standard ISO/IEC 14496". The organisation is ISO/IEC. Kegon (talk) 04:22, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Proposed table
Does anyone else think it would be a good idea to have a comparison table of the variants of mpeg4 (DIVX XVID H264 etc etc) which would include links, supported resolutions/field rates, data rates, features and codec efficency ? 86.112.239.124 (talk) 15:08, 23 August 2009 (UTC)
 * DivX, Xvid and H.264 are not variants of MPEG-4 (plus DIVX and XVID are FourCCs). DivX is a company and a brand name, and DivX Pro Codec is a popular MPEG-4 ASP (and AVC) codec made by the DivX company—it is a software implementation of MPEG-4 Part 2. A software implementation is not "a variant". Xvid is an open-source MPEG-4 ASP codec—another software product implementing the MPEG-4 Part 2 standard. H.264 is not a codec or a variant of anything, it is another name for MPEG-4 AVC, that is, the MPEG-4 Part 10 video format (it is not an implementation, it is the specification, the standard). So the comparison would be very confused, as it would compare apples with oranges.
 * Furthermore, Wikipedia already has the Comparison of video codecs article.—J. M. (talk) 18:28, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

"Improved Coding Efficiency"
An ATI document provides an interesting graph of quality versus bitrate of H.264 and MPEG-2, which is what is (probably) intended by the statement "improved encoding efficiency" on the lead-in. Would this be suitable, or is a more rigorous comparison required? --Freeone3000 (talk) 17:44, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * That document looks more like a marketing brochure than a technical document. Even though to video people it's blindingly obvious that MPEG-4 provides improved efficiency over MPEG-2, if it needs a citation it'll have to be from a better source. C xong (talk) 00:49, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070616033830/http://www.mpegra.org/aspx/Login.aspx?Type=IPMP to http://www.mpegra.org/aspx/Login.aspx?Type=IPMP
 * Added tag to http://www.mpegra.org/aspx/FAQ.aspx
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title: Talk:MPEG-4


text: Category:Danish athletes

title: Category:Danish athletes


text:
User talk:Melamed

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Hope you like it here, and stick around.

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * To sign your posts (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).
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 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk
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 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck! Thank you for your contributions to Scientific Method. This page is highly visible. Please be prepared for some discussions and perhaps some changes. Ancheta Wis 22:57, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The three revert rule
Melamed hi. An important Wikipedia tenant is the three revert rule: do not revert the same page more than 3 times within the span of 24 hours. You have already reverted List of alternative, speculative and disputed theories 6 times in the last 24 hours. This would be an excellent time to stop editing the page and engage in discussion. Use its talk page. Thanks. Gady 03:35, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Melamed


text:
User talk:Slike

new talk entry

Not a CSD
Please note Console game was not a candidate for speedy deletion. --fvw *  19:01, 2004 Dec 23 (UTC)
 * I think it falls under the category, a console game (describes typical gameplay, history, what to expect from a console game) is not a video game console (the actual hardware). If lumber did not exist and I pasted what was under tree into it, I think what would fall under no meaningful content - related, sure, but not what you're looking for. Slike 02:43, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'm not arguing whether or not it should be deleted, I'm arguing it's not a speedy deletion candidate. Please read the page linked in my original comment, there are five strictly defined criteria for speedy deletion of redirects, this wasn't one of them. This sort of stuff should go on WP:RFD. --fvw *  11:25, 2004 Dec 24 (UTC)
 * You misunderstand my response, I'm arguing that it is a candidate under "No meaningful content or history". The redirect is an error, so it was removed - the article has no meaningful content or history. --Slike 11:30, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

No meaningful content is not a criterion for speedy deletion for redirects. Also, note that "no meaningful content" refers to patent nonsense (read this "is not" list on this one, I think it'll clarify things), not "this is silly" or "this is stupid" things. --fvw *  11:33, 2004 Dec 24 (UTC)
 * Ah, serves me right for not reading your entire link before posting a response. My above comment stands as an explanation. I'll use the other page. Thank you --Slike 11:36, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Move of article content
Slike, thank you for your valuable contributions, especially in the area of console/video/computer games. I just noticed that you moved a large section of game programming to game development. I authored that article (most of it) and wrote it as game development from the perspective of the game programmer. It doesn't include many other topics, such as the artists', producer, testers' and game designers roles, only that of the programmer. While I think an article on game development would be valuable, that large chunk from the game programming article isn't appropriate. Perhaps you could start the game development article and refer to the specific roles in their own articles.

In short, I'd like you to revert your removal of the content from the game programming article and start the game development article from the ground up. You may, of course, borrow content from the other pertinent articles to make up the content of that article, but the chunk from the game programming article is imbalanced since it just talks about developemtn from the programmer's perspective.

If you'd like to discuss this further (or at all), please do so on the Talk pages of the game programming or game development articles. Thanks! :-)  — Frecklefoot | Talk 02:23, Dec 24, 2004 (UTC)

 * You're absolutley right, and I've reverted accordingly. Your intent is clear now, at the time of the move I had assumed that it was a (rather fine, if I may add) development proccess and that the weight on programming was due to the author being a programmer. Slike 02:38, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'm gald you like it and that we are eye-to-eye on this now. I look forward to your future valuable contributions. :-)  — Frecklefoot | Talk 02:49, Dec 24, 2004 (UTC)

Talk comment order
Hi, thanks for documenting your refactoring efforts in Talk:Computer and video games and others. I just wanted to let you know that it is much more common to post new comments at the bottom of a talk page rather than at the top. It's a bit confusing to have comments in both reverse-chronological and chronological order. --Mrwojo 17:27, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks, I'll edit. — Slike | Talk | 01:24, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Thanks! --Mrwojo 14:28, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

External link removal
FileFront should be added to the links section of "computer games". They are the fourth largest gaming site in the world and offer news, articles, and files. In fact, they are bigger than most of the sites listed. I attempted to add it twice, but it was reverted.
 * Please bring this up on the appropriate talk page. Both of my reverts directed you to the talk page, which has a discussion on this matter.— Slike | Talk | 04:38, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Reply: video and console games

 * (First of all, many thanks for expanding console games. I have, however (though not because I'm not thankful for your input), removed your edit to computer and video games, and your redirect in video game. The definition of computer games, or video games, or interactive games, or electronic games, or what have you ;), is not a light subject, and I'd ask you to read Category_talk:Computer_and_video_games, as I'd be unable to do it justice here. If you do disagree with my changes, let me know on my talk page, and we'll get a discussion going.— Slike | Talk | 08:13, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC))

Ah, sorry about my edits to Computer and video games. However, I think, regardless of what the name implies it is, video games, have always been, well, video games. "A game with a video display" just sounded quite vague, and I've always heard video games as a words used to refer to electronic games played on consoles. We should define a word as how it is used and what it really means in popular culture, not how it sounds, in my opinion. ✏ Oven Fresh ☺  18:18, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * By 'how it sounds', you mean to say 'how it is defined in all respectable dictionaries' :) Many people, including people in the industry itself, see both vid and comp games as referring to electronic games with (...). There are three concepts - games as they exist controlled by a computer, and then the 2 platforms that they're played on (PC, console). The specifics of each platform are not as important as the topic of games themselves, so the disambig page becames "comp and vid games". — Slike | Talk | 23:32, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Not a Personal Attack
My edits to Wikipedia talk: WikiProject Computer and video games was not a personal attack by any means (at least, it wasn't meant to be). Alas, I won't reinstate it but I do not see how you interpreted it as one. Just wanted to clear up any misunderstanding. ✏ Oven Fresh ☺  02:39, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * See No personal attacks. It's under "Political affiliation attacks, such as calling someone a Nazi", or in your case, an implication of Dictatorship. He was making a request, not oppressing you in any way.— Slike | Talk | 02:54, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I wasn't implying he was opressing me, I made a silly comment that he should have a dictatorship, I did not say he was trying to gain one. ✏ Oven Fresh ☺  03:03, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * I strongly suggest that you check what the word imply means. It's has little to do with "what you literally said". By sarcastically suggesting that he should be wp's dictator, you use dictator and it's negative connotations as a political affiliation attack . Tell me, what other purpose did your comment serve? — Slike | Talk | 03:12, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

I know what imply means. Read my comment here, please: Wikipedia talk: WikiProject Computer and video games. I certainly didn't mean to call anyone a "Nazi". ✏ Oven Fresh ☺  03:15, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Don't try to pull a straw man here, I never said you called him a nazi. Apart from that, thank you for leaving the section removed. However, an explanation of your deleted actions is not something that needs to be there. Please remove your last comment, with an edit summary of "See prev version for my response to Slike's reverts", or something similar.— Slike | Talk | 03:25, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Done. Sorry about that. ✏ Oven Fresh ☺  03:31, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks, no hard feelings I hope. — Slike | Talk | 03:33, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

None! ✏ Oven Fresh ☺  03:36, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

your rv: computer games:external links
ur right, but not everyone "googles". the open directory page contains many related links but i have not checked them out further.Akidd_dublin

WIKIPEDIA ABUSE Ril, (81.156.177.21).
Ril has been causing problems at Authentic Matthew. Please help us to resolve.

RIL - M.O.

1) Sock Puppet redirects and hopes nobody notices - Article Gone.

2) SP starts edit war-victim gives up - Article Gone.

3) Later new SP 'merges' and redirects - Article Gone

4) New SP starts edit war - Article Gone

5) If all fails, SP puts up Vfd and makes false statements against his victim often getting THE VICTIM BLOCKED.

PLEASE STUDY THE 'EDIT HISTORY' OF THIS ARTICLE, RIL and 81.156.177.21 for the facts speak for themselves. --Mikefar 05:08, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, the above is one of the numerous sockpuppets of the article's creator - User:Melissadolbeer - see the user's edit history, and Requests for comment/Melissadolbeer for details. The article in question is Melissadolbeer's original research based on an account by Jerome which is almost universally considered to be an error confusing 3 different gospels (Gospel of the Nazarenes, Gospel of the Hebrews, and Gospel of the Ebionites). It also contains material presenting Eusebius's views of what was Biblical Canon - better discussed at those two articles, and the entire source text of the alleged Gospel, which is otherwise almost universally split into the 3 seperate texts above. The source text was already on WikiSource, and what was salvagable from the remainder of the article was merged to the above 5 articles, and Gospel of Matthew, at the suggestion of User:Wetman. It exists only to support Melissadolbeer's original research thesis. Melissadolbeer's claims of abuse against me, 81.156.177.21, doc, Slrubenstien, etc. are simply down to the fact that we have at one time or another merged the article elsewhere leaving only a redirect, or have voted to delete it at VFD. The above comment by the sockpuppet has been pasted by it into a vast number of user pages, an act which essentially constitutes excessive disruption to Wikipedia, simply because Melissadolbeer refuses to abide by the process of VFD.     19:14, 15 July 2005 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:49, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

"Computer game" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Computer game. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 April 18 until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. Popcornfud (talk) 15:05, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

title: User talk:Slike


text: Category:East German athletes

title: Category:East German athletes


text:
User talk:Tneidt

T, Welcome to the Wikipedia. Since you're already catching my errors (eg at Talk:Glass for which thanks), you would hardly seem to need the traditional pointers. Keep up the good work. My brain does on occation go on vacation (solidify into a glass perhaps) and I at least need someone keeping me on my toes (in compression of course). ww 16:27, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Tneidt


text:
Lost Dutchman's Gold Mine

The Lost Dutchman's Gold Mine (also known by similar names) is, according to legend, a rich gold mine hidden in the Southwestern United States. The location is generally believed to be in the Superstition Mountains, near Apache Junction, east of Phoenix, Arizona. There have been many stories about how to find the mine, and each year people search for the mine. Some have died on the search.

The mine is named after German immigrant Jakob Waltz (c. 1810–1891), who purportedly discovered it in the 19th century and kept its location a secret. "Dutchman" was a common American term for a German ("Dutch" being the English cognate to the German demonym "Deutsch", and not a reference to the Dutch people).

The Lost Dutchman's is perhaps the most famous lost mine in American history. Arizona place-name expert Byrd Granger wrote, as of 1977, the Lost Dutchman's story had been printed or cited at least six times more often than two other fairly well-known tales, the story of Captain Kidd's lost treasure, and the story of the Lost Pegleg mine in California. People have been seeking the Lost Dutchman's mine since at least 1892, while according to one estimate, 9,000 people annually made some effort to locate the Lost Dutchman's mine. Former Arizona Attorney General Robert K. Corbin is among those who have looked for the mine.

Other Lost Dutchman's mines
Robert Blair wrote "[t]here have been at least four legendary Lost Dutchman's gold mines in the American West, including the famed Superstition mine of Jacob Waltz". One Lost Dutchman's mine is said to be in Colorado, another in California; two are said to be located in Arizona. Tales of these other Lost Dutchman's mines can be traced to at least the 1870s. The earliest Lost Dutchman's mine in Arizona was said to have been near Wickenburg, about 180 km north-west of the Superstition Mountains: a "Dutchman" was allegedly discovered dead in the desert near Wickenburg in the 1870s alongside saddlebags filled with gold. Blair suggested that "fragments of this legend have perhaps become attached to the mythical mine of Jacob Waltz".

Stories about the mine
Granger wrote that "fact and fiction blend in the tales", but that there are three main elements to the story:

 * "They are, first, tales of the lost Apache gold or Dr. Thorne's mine; second, tales about the Lost Dutchman's; and, third, stories of the soldiers' lost gold vein ... [t]he most complete version of the Lost Dutchman's story incorporates all three legends". Blair argued that there are kernels of truth at the heart of each of these three main stories, though the popular story is often badly garbled from the actual account. Other theories have materialized that speculate the mine is buried at the bottom of Apache or Roosevelt Lake.

In 1977, Granger identified 62 variants of the Lost Dutchman's story – some of the variations are minor, but others are substantial, casting the story in a very different light from the other versions.

Lost Apache gold or Dr. Thorne's story
In this story (actually two interconnected stories), members of the Apache tribe are said to have a very rich gold mine located in the Superstition Mountains. Famed Apache Geronimo is sometimes mentioned in relation to this story. In most variants of the story, the family of a man called Miguel Peralta discovered the mine and began mining the gold there, only to be attacked or massacred by Apaches in about 1850 in the supposed Peralta massacre. Years later, a man called Dr. Thorne treats an ailing or wounded Apache (often alleged to be a chieftain) and is rewarded with a trip to a rich gold mine. He is blindfolded and taken there by a circuitous route, and is allowed to take as much gold ore as he can carry before again being escorted blindfolded from the site by the Apaches. Thorne is said to be either unwilling or unable to relocate the mine.

The truth about the Peralta Mine
Most likely because Pedro de Peralta had been the Spanish Governor of New Mexico (in the 1600s) his family name of "Peralta" was the inspiration for a number of legends in the American Southwest. James Reavis tried to assert that the Peralta family had a Spanish land grant and a barony granted by the King of Spain, which included a huge swath of Arizona and New Mexico, including the Superstition Mountains. The Peralta Massacre is a legend that Apaches supposedly ambushed a mining expedition the Peralta family sent into the mountains. Some carved stones in the area are referred to as "Peralta Stones" and Spanish text and crude maps on them are considered by some to be clues to the location of a Peralta family gold mine in the Superstition Mountains, although others believe the stones to be modern fakes. A lack of historical records leaves uncertainty as to whether a Peralta family ever had possession of land, or mines, in or near the Superstition Mountains.

Blair insisted that the Peralta portion of the story is unreliable, writing: "The operation of a gold mine in the Superstitions by a Peralta family is a contrivance of 20th century writers". A man named Miguel Peralta and his family did operate a successful mine in the 1860s – but near Valencia, California, not in Arizona. The mine was quite profitable, earning about $35,000 in less than one year; Blair described this as "an unusually good return" for such a small gold mine to earn in such a relatively brief period. As of 1975, ruins of the Peralta mine were standing.

However, the Peralta Mine eventually became unprofitable and after the money was gone Miguel Peralta turned to fraud. Dr. George M. Willing Jr. paid Peralta $20,000 for the mining rights for an enormous swath of land – about 3000000 acre in southern Arizona and New Mexico – based on a deed originally granted by the Spanish Empire in the 18th century. Trouble came after Willing learned that the deed was entirely bogus. Despite his efforts, Willing was never able to recover the money he gave to Peralta. This land grant was the basis of the James Reavis Arizona land swindle (Reavis became Willing's partner and continued to try to prove the authenticity of the land grant for years after Willing's death).

Blair argued that this Peralta story (well known to Arizona residents) was eventually incorporated in the Lost Dutchman's story, in a severely distorted version, following the renewed interest in the Lost Dutchman's mine in the 1930s.

Since James Reavis, "the Baron of Arizona", was convicted of fraud when the Peralta family genealogy and other documents to support the land grant (and a barony associated with that land) were determined to be forgeries it also raises questions about the original purchase of the land grant by Dr. George M. Willing Jr. (the transaction had supposedly occurred at a primitive campsite to the southeast of Prescott without the benefit of the typical documentation; instead of a notarized deed, the conveyance was recorded on a piece of greasy camp paper bearing signature of several witnesses). Willing died in 1874 before there had been a thorough investigation of the documents or opportunity to cross examine him on the stand as was later done with Reavis.

The truth about Dr. Thorne
Another detail which casts doubt on the story is the fact that, according to Blair, there was never any Dr. Thorne in the employ of the Army or indeed of the Federal Government in the 1860s. According to Blair, the origin of this story can be traced to a doctor named Thorne who was in private practice in New Mexico in the 1860s. Thorne claimed that he was taken captive by Navajos in 1854, and that during his captivity he had discovered a rich gold vein. Thorne related his claims to three U.S. soldiers in about 1858. The three soldiers set out to find the gold, but without success. Over the decades, this tale was gradually absorbed into the Lost Dutchman's story.

The Lost Dutchman's story
This tale involves two German men, Jacob Waltz and Jacob Weiser. However, Blair argued that there is a strong likelihood that there never was a second man named Weiser, but rather that a single person named Waltz was, over the years, turned into two men as the legend of the Dutchman's mine evolved. Blair contended that this story can be divided into "hawk" and "dove" versions, depending on whether the German(s) are said to behave violently or peacefully. In most versions of the tale, Jacob Waltz locates a rich gold mine in the Superstition Mountains (in many versions of the story, they rescue or help a member of the Peralta family and are rewarded by being told the location of the mine). Waltz is attacked and wounded by marauding Apaches, but survives at least long enough to tell a man called Dr. Walker about the mine. Waltz is also said to make a deathbed confession to Julia Thomas, and draws or describes a crude map to the gold mine.

John D. Wilburn in his book Dutchman's Lost Ledge of Gold (1990), wrote that the Bulldog Gold Mine near Goldfield, Arizona, fits very well the description Jacob Waltz gave as the location of his 'lost mine'. Furthermore, Wilburn stated that geology indicates that there is no gold in the Superstition Mountains, which are igneous in origin. (However, in some versions, the 'mine' is actually a cache put there by the Peraltas.)

Stories of the soldiers' lost gold vein
In yet another version of the tale, two (or more) U.S. Army soldiers are said to have discovered a vein of almost pure gold in or near the Superstition Mountains. The soldiers are alleged to have presented some of the gold, but to have been killed or to have vanished soon after.

This account is usually dated to about 1870. According to Blair, the story may have its roots in the efforts of three U.S. soldiers to locate gold in an area of New Mexico, based on an allegedly true story related to them by Dr. Thorne of New Mexico; see above.

The historical Jacob Waltz

Blair cited evidence of the historical Jacob Waltz and suggested that additional evidence supports the core elements of the story – that Waltz claimed to have discovered (or at least heard the story of) a rich gold vein or cache. But Blair suggested that this core story was distorted in subsequent retellings, comparing the many variants of the Lost Dutchman's story to the game of Chinese whispers, where the original account is distorted in multiple retellings of the tale.

There was indeed a Jacob Waltz who emigrated to the U.S. from Germany. The earliest documentation of him in the U.S. is an 1848 affidavit in which Waltz declared himself to be "about 38 years old". A man called Jacob Walz was born in September 1810 in Württemberg. Blair suggested that this Waltz could be the same Waltz who later came to be regarded as the legendary Dutchman, and that he Americanized the spelling of his family name. Note that tombstone pictured shows birth year as 1808.

Waltz relocated to Arizona in the 1860s, and stayed in the territory for most of the rest of his life. He pursued mining and prospecting, but seems to have had little luck with either. An alternate view which better fits the lost mine legend is that he periodically appeared with large amounts of gold, The Sterling Legend by Estee Conatser reports that a Jacob Walzer sold $250,000 in gold to the U.S. Mint during the 1880s and had $1500 when he died in 1891. In 1870, Waltz had a homestead of about 160 acre near Phoenix where he operated a farm. There is a theory that although Waltz never worked at the Henry Wickenburg's Vulture mine, (which was notorious for being poorly-managed) he could indeed have been a "fence" for those who did work at the Vulture.

There was a catastrophic flood in Phoenix in 1891, and Waltz's farm was one of many that was devastated. Afterwards, Waltz fell ill (he was rumored to have contracted pneumonia during the flooding). He died on October 25, 1891, after having been nursed by an acquaintance named Julia Thomas (she was usually described as a quadroon). Waltz was buried in Phoenix at what is now called the Pioneer and Military Memorial Park.

Blair had little doubt that Waltz related to Thomas the location of an alleged gold mine. As early as September 1, 1892, The Arizona Enterprise was reporting on the efforts of Thomas and several others to locate the lost mine whose location was told to her by Waltz. After this was unsuccessful, Thomas and her partners were reported to be selling maps to the mine for $7 each.

The death of Adolph Ruth
Were it not for the death of amateur explorer and treasure hunter Adolph Ruth, the story of the Lost Dutchman's mine would probably have been little more than a footnote in Arizona history as one of hundreds of "lost mines" rumored to be in the American West. Ruth disappeared while searching for the mine in the summer of 1931. His skull – with two holes in it identified as bullet holes – was recovered about six months after he vanished, and the story made national news, thus sparking widespread interest in the Lost Dutchman's mine.

In a story that echoes some of the earlier tales, Ruth's son Erwin C. Ruth was said to have learned of the Peralta mine from a man called Pedro Gonzales (or Gonzalez). According to the story, in about 1912 Erwin C. Ruth gave some legal aid to Gonzales, saving him from almost certain imprisonment. In gratitude, Gonzales told Erwin about the Peralta mine in the Superstition Mountains, and gave him some antique maps of the site (Gonzales claimed to be descended from the Peralta family on his mother's side). Erwin passed the information to his father Adolph, who had a long-standing interest in lost mines and amateur exploration. The elder Ruth had fallen and badly broken several bones while seeking the lost Pegleg mine in California. He had metal pins in his leg, and used a cane to help him walk.

In June 1931, Ruth set out to locate the lost Peralta mine. After traveling to the region, Ruth stayed several days at the ranch of Tex Barkely to outfit his expedition. Barkely repeatedly urged Ruth to abandon his search for the mine, because the terrain of the Superstition Mountains was treacherous even for experienced outdoorsmen, let alone for the 66-year-old Ruth in the heat of the Arizona summer.

However, Ruth ignored Barkely's advice, and set out for a two-week stint in the mountains. Ruth did not return as scheduled, and no trace of him could be found after a brief search. In December, 1931, The Arizona Republic reported on the recent discovery of a human skull in the Superstition Mountains. To determine if the skull was Ruth's, it was examined by Dr. Aleš Hrdlička, a well-respected anthropologist who was given several photos of Ruth, along with Ruth's dental records. As Curt Gentry wrote, "Dr. Hrdlicka positively identified the skull as that of Adolph Ruth. He further stated, after examining the two holes [in the skull], that it appeared that a shotgun or high-powered rifle had been fired through the head at almost point-blank range, making the small hole when the bullet entered and the large hole when it exited".

In January 1932, human remains were discovered about three-quarters of a mile (1.21 km) from where the skull had been found. Though the remains had been scattered by scavengers, they were undoubtedly Ruth's. Many of Ruth's personal effects were found at the scene, including a pistol (not missing any shells) and the metal pins used to mend his broken bones. But the map to the Peralta mine was said to be missing.

Tantalizingly, Ruth's checkbook was also recovered, and proved to contain a note written by Ruth wherein he claimed to have discovered the mine and gave detailed directions. Ruth ended his note with the phrase "Veni, vidi, vici."

Authorities in Arizona did not convene a criminal inquest regarding Ruth's death. They argued that Ruth had probably succumbed to thirst or heart disease (though, as Gentry wrote, "[o]ne official went so far as to suggest that [Adolph Ruth] might have committed suicide ... While this theory did not ignore the two holes in the skull, it did fail to explain how Ruth had managed to remove and bury the empty shell, then reload his gun, after shooting himself through the head". Blair noted that the conclusion of the Arizona authorities was rejected by many, including Ruth's family, and "those who held onto the more romantic murdered-for-the-map story".

Blair wrote that "the national wire services picked up the story [of Ruth's death] and ran it for more than it was worth", possibly seeing the mysterious story as a welcome reprieve from the bleak news that was otherwise typical of the Great Depression.

Other searches for the mine
Throughout the 20th century, various expeditions and individuals continued to search the Superstitions for the Lost Dutchman Mine. One of the most professional and serious-minded efforts was led by Oklahoma City private detective Glen Magill, who organized multiple expeditions in the late 1960s and early '70s, and claimed on at least two occasions to have identified the location of the mine, later to concede he was either mistaken or the locations were "played out," or bereft of gold. Magill's adventures were chronicled in the book The Killer Mountains, by Curt Gentry.

One fact against the existence of "Lost Dutchman Mine" is that Waltz was a "placer miner"; while the gold pieces he had were in quartz, the Superstition Mountains are in fact volcanic. Lastly, the alleged mine directions Ruth had were from an 1895 newspaper account.

Other deaths and disappearances
Since Ruth's death, there have been several other deaths or disappearances in the Superstition Mountains. Some searchers for the mine have disappeared in likely wilderness accidents.
 * January 1933 a Mining electrican named J.A. "Tex" Bradford of Globe Arizona went in search of the "Lost Dutchman Mine"; by October 1933 he had been missing for nine months.
 * In his 1945 book about the Lost Dutchman's mine, Thunder God's Gold, Barry Storm (pen name of John Griffith Climenson) claimed to have narrowly escaped from a mysterious sniper he dubbed "Mr. X". Storm further speculated that Adolph Ruth might have been a victim of the same sniper.
 * July 3, 1947 James A Cravey, age 62, a retired photographer, was reported missing after he had chartered a helicopter June 19, 1947 to drop him off in the Superstition Mountains to look for the Lost Dutchmans Mine. Cravey said he would walk out of the mountains on June 28, 1947. In the mid-1940s, the headless remains of prospector James A. Cravey were reportedly discovered in the Superstition Mountains. He had allegedly disappeared after setting out to find the Lost Dutchman's mine.
 * In late November or early December 2009, Denver resident Jesse Capen (35) went missing in the Tonto National Forest. His campsite and car were found abandoned shortly afterward. He was known to have been obsessed with finding the mine for several years and had made previous trips to the area.  Capen's body was found in November 2012 by a local search and rescue organization, wedged into a crevice. The program Disappeared covered the case (mentioning others) in the episode "The Dutchman's Curse".
 * On July 11, 2010, Utah hikers Curtis Merworth (49), Ardean Charles (66), and Malcolm Meeks (41) went missing in the Superstition Mountains looking for the mine. Merworth had become lost in the same area in 2009, requiring a rescue. On July 19, the Maricopa County Sheriff's Department called off the search for the lost men. They presumably died in the summer heat. In January 2011, three sets of remains believed to be those of the lost men were recovered.

Lost Dutchman State Park
In 1977, 292 acre abutting the Tonto National Forest were set aside as the Lost Dutchman State Park. The park was expanded to 320 acre in 1983. It is accessible about 40 miles east of Phoenix via U.S. Highway 60, the Superstition Freeway. Hiking and camping are popular activities. There are several paths that go through the brush and cacti. The short "Discovery Trail" is a clear route with several placards giving the natural history of the area.

In popular culture

 * Lost Dutchman's Mine is a text adventure game by the Programmer's Guild written in Applesoft BASIC. The source code appeared as a type-in program in BYTE in 1980 and 1981.
 * Al Emmo and the Lost Dutchman's Mine is a 2006 adventure game based loosely around the myth of the Lost Dutchman's Gold; the protagonist, Al Emmo, sets out to locate the mine and recover its riches for Rita Peralto.
 * Lust for Gold is a 1949 Western film about the mine based on Storm's book.
 * "Dutchman's Gold" was a chart hit in 1960 for Walter Brennan.
 * "When the Man Comes, Follow Him" episode of the CBS Radio series Escape aired on April 9, 1949.
 * "The Peralta Map" episode of the CBS Radio series Suspense aired on March 10, 1957.
 * Lost Dutchman Mine, a 1989 video game for various platforms.
 * The Lost Dutchman Mine ride was a popular attraction at Legend City amusement park (Tempe, AZ 1963–1983)
 * The Lost Dutchman's Mine features prominently in the Lara Croft, Tomb Raider three-part graphic series entitled "The Black Legion", published between December 2003 and March 2004.
 * The Lost Dutchman’s Mine is the subject of Season 6, Episode 10 of podcast Unexplained
 * The Lost Dutchman’s Mine is featured in Season 1, Episode 21 of the television series Unsolved Mysteries. The episode first aired on April 12, 1989.
 * "Dutchman's Gold" was the season 4, episode 19 of Maverick which aired January 22, 1961.
 * ”The Lost Dutchman Mine/Mother Lode ” was Season 2, Episode 1 of the documentary series In Search Of… and aired December 24, 1977.
 * "The Vigilante of Pizen Bluff", a Scrooge McDuck story, features Scrooge getting maps from the Dutchman himself that lead to his lost mine.

title: Lost Dutchman's Gold Mine


text:
Footloose

Footloose is a 1984 American musical drama film directed by Herbert Ross. It tells the story of Ren McCormack (Kevin Bacon), a teenager from Chicago who moves to a small town, where he attempts to overturn the ban on dancing instituted by the efforts of a local minister (John Lithgow).

The film received mixed reviews from the critics and was a box office success, grossing $80 million in North America, becoming the seventh highest-grossing film of 1984. The songs "Footloose" by Kenny Loggins and "Let's Hear It for the Boy" by Deniece Williams were nominated for the Academy Award for Best Original Song.

Plot
Chicago native Ren McCormack and his mother Ethel move to the small town of Bomont to live with Ren's aunt and uncle. While attending church, he meets Reverend Shaw Moore, his wife Vi, and their daughter Ariel. Ariel rebels against her father's strict religious nature and behaves recklessly.

At school, Ren befriends Willard Hewitt. He soon learns that the town council has banned dancing and rock music within the town boundary. Ren soon falls for Ariel, angering her boyfriend, Chuck Cranston, who challenges him to a game of chicken involving tractors. Ren wins the challenge.

Distrusting Ren's influence, Reverend Moore forbids Ariel from seeing him. Ren drives Willard, Ariel, and her friend, Rusty, to a bar past the state line to go dancing. Willard, unable to dance, becomes jealous and gets into a fight with a man dancing with Rusty.

On the drive home, Ariel describes how, five years earlier, her older brother died in a car accident after a night of alcohol and dancing. Their father Reverend Moore then persuaded the town council to enact strict anti-liquor, anti-drug, and anti-dance laws. Ren decides to challenge the anti-dancing and rock music ordinance so the high school can hold a senior prom.

Willard is embarrassed he cannot dance, so Ren teaches him. Chuck confronts Ariel about her feelings towards Ren and they get into a physical altercation before breaking up. Ren helps Ariel conceal the physical assault before going home, cementing their relationship.

Later that night, someone throws a brick with the words, "Burn in Hell," through a window at Ren's house. When his uncle criticizes Ren's outspoken behavior, Ethel tells Ren that though his actions cost her her job, he should stand up for what he believes is right.

With Ariel's help, Ren goes before the town council to advocate revoking the anti-dancing law. He reads several Bible verses and cites the scriptural significance of dancing as a way to rejoice, exercise, and celebrate. Although Reverend Moore is moved, the council votes against Ren's proposal. Vi, who supports the movement, tells Moore that he cannot be everyone's father and is hardly one to Ariel.

Despite further discussion with Ren about his own family losses and Ariel telling her father she is not a virgin, Rev. Moore does not change his stance. The next day, he finds members of his congregation burning library books that they claim to endanger the town's youth. Realizing the situation has become uncontrollable, Moore stops the book burners, chastises them, and sends them home.

The following Sunday, Reverend Moore asks his congregation to pray for the high school students putting on the prom, being held in a grain mill just yards over the county line and beyond Bomont's jurisdiction. On prom night, Moore and Vi listen from outside the mill. Chuck and his friends arrive, attacking Willard; Ren arrives in time to even the odds and knocks out Chuck. Ren, Ariel, Willard, and Rusty rejoin the party and happily dance the night away.

Production
Dean Pitchford came up with the idea for Footloose in 1979 and teamed up with Daniel Melnick's IndieProd who set the production up at 20th Century Fox in 1981. Pitchford wrote the screenplay (his first) and most of the lyrics however, Fox put it into turnaround. In 1982, Paramount Pictures made a pay-or-play deal for the film. When negotiations with Herbert Ross initially stalled, Ron Howard was approached to direct the film but he turned it down to direct Splash instead. Michael Cimino was hired by Paramount to direct the film, his first film since Heaven's Gate.

After a month of working on the film, the studio fired Cimino, who was making extravagant demands for the production, including demanding an additional $250,000 for his work, and ended up hiring Ross.

Casting
Tom Cruise and Rob Lowe were both slated to play the lead. The casting directors were impressed with Cruise because of the famous underwear dance sequence in Risky Business, but he was unavailable for the part because he was filming All the Right Moves. Lowe auditioned three times and had the dancing ability and the "neutral teen" look that the director wanted, but injury prevented him from taking the part. Christopher Atkins claims that he was cast as Ren, but lost the role. Bacon had been offered the main role for the Stephen King film Christine at the same time that he was asked to do the screen test for Footloose. He chose to take the gamble on the screen test. After watching his earlier film Diner, the director persuaded the producers to go with Bacon.

The film also stars Lori Singer as Reverend Moore's independent daughter Ariel, a role for which Madonna and Haviland Morris also auditioned. Valerie Bertinelli and Jennifer Jason Leigh were also considered. Dianne Wiest appears as Vi, the Reverend's devoted yet conflicted wife.

Tracy Nelson was considered for the role of Rusty.

Filming
Principal photography began on May 9, 1983, and was shot at various locations in Utah County, Utah. The high school and tractor scenes were filmed in and around Payson and Payson High School. The church scenes were filmed at the First Presbyterian Church in American Fork, while the steel mill was the Geneva Steel facility in Vineyard and The Lehi Roller Mills were the location where Bacon's character worked (Bacon briefly worked at the roller mill as research for his performance ). The drive-in scenes were filmed in Provo at what was then a branch of the Hi-Spot burger chain. The restaurant chain closed in the late 1980s, and there is now an auto parts store at that location. The bar scene was filmed at The Silver Spur bar in downtown Provo. The bar and other surrounding buildings were demolished to make way for the Utah Valley Convention Center.

For his dance scene in the warehouse, Bacon said he had four stunt doubles: "I had a stunt double, a dance double [Peter Tramm] and two gymnastics doubles."

Film inspiration
Footloose is loosely based on the town of Elmore City, Oklahoma. The town had banned dancing since its founding in 1898 in an attempt to decrease the amount of heavy drinking. One advocate of the dancing ban was the Reverend from the nearby town of Hennepin, F. R. Johnson. He said, "No good has ever come from a dance. If you have a dance somebody will crash it and they'll be looking for only two things—women and booze. When boys and girls hold each other, they get sexually aroused. You can believe what you want, but one thing leads to another." Because of the ban on dancing, the town never held a prom. In February 1980, the junior class of Elmore City's high school made national news when they requested permission to hold a junior prom and it was granted. The request to overturn the ban to hold the prom was met with a 2–2 decision from the school board when school board president Raymond Lee broke the tie with the words, "Let 'em dance."

Soundtrack
The soundtrack was released in cassette, 8-track tape, vinyl, reel-to-reel and CD format. The 1984 open reel release was among the last commercial releases on the format. The soundtrack was also re-released on CD for the 15th anniversary of the film in 1999. The re-release included four new songs: "Bang Your Head (Metal Health)" by Quiet Riot, "Hurts So Good" by John Mellencamp, "Waiting for a Girl Like You" by Foreigner, and the extended 12" remix of "Dancing in the Sheets".

The album includes "Footloose" and "I'm Free (Heaven Helps the Man)", both by Kenny Loggins, "Holding Out for a Hero" by Bonnie Tyler (co-written and produced by Jim Steinman), "Girl Gets Around" by Sammy Hagar, "Never" by Australian rock band Moving Pictures, "Let's Hear It for the Boy" by Deniece Williams, "Somebody's Eyes" by Karla Bonoff, "Dancing In The Sheets" by Shalamar, and the romantic theme "Almost Paradise" by Mike Reno from Loverboy and Ann Wilson of Heart (co-written by Eric Carmen). The soundtrack went on to sell over 9 million copies in the USA. All songs in the initial release were co-written by Pitchford based on various songwriting styles: for "Holding Out for a Hero", he listened to various songs written by Steinman such as his work with Meat Loaf and then wrote the first two lines ("Where have all the good men gone/And where are all the gods?/Where's the streetwise Hercules/To fight the rising odds?") in this manner to spark Steinman's creativity.

"Footloose" and "Let's Hear It for the Boy" both topped the Billboard Hot 100 and received 1985 Academy Award nominations for Best Music (Original Song). "Footloose" also received a 1985 Golden Globe Award nomination for Best Original Song – Motion Picture.

Composer Miles Goodman adapted and orchestrated the film's score.

The music from the soundtrack was released prior to the film's premiere. The filmmakers felt that songs produced a stronger emotional response from people already familiar with them, which heightened the experience of watching the movie. The music video for "Footloose" had scenes from the movie, rather than footage of Loggins.

Critical response
The film received mixed reviews from critics. Chicago Sun-Times critic Roger Ebert called it "a seriously confused movie that tries to do three things, and does all of them badly. It wants to tell the story of a conflict in a town, it wants to introduce some flashy teenage characters and part of the time it wants to be a music video." Dave Denby in New York rechristened the film "Schlockdance", writing: "Footloose may be a hit, but it's trash – high powered fodder for the teen market... The only person to come out of the film better off is the smooth-cheeked, pug-nosed Bacon, who gives a cocky but likable Mr. Cool performance."

Jane Lamacraft reassessed the film for Sight and Sound "Forgotten pleasures of the multiplex" feature in 2010, writing "Nearly three decades on, Bacon's vest-clad set-piece dance in a flour mill looks cheesily 1980s, but the rest of Ross's drama wears its age well, real song-and-dance joy for the pre-Glee generation."

On Metacritic, the film has a weighted average score of 42 out of 100 based on 12 critics, indicating "mixed or average reviews".

Box office
The film grossed $80,035,403 domestically. It became the seventh highest-grossing film of 1984.

Accolades

 * AFI's 100 Years...100 Songs:
 * "Footloose" – #96

Musical adaptation
In 1998, a musical version of Footloose premiered. Featuring many of the songs from the film, the show has been presented on London's West End, on Broadway, and elsewhere. The musical is generally faithful to the film version, with some slight differences in the story and characters.

Remake
Paramount announced plans to fast-track a remake of Footloose. The remake was written and directed by Craig Brewer. Filming started in September 2010. It was budgeted at $25 million. It was released October 14, 2011.

title: Footloose