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Vidal Sassoon

Vidal Sassoon (17 January 1928 – 9 May 2012) was a British hairstylist, businessman, and philanthropist. He was noted for repopularising a simple, close-cut geometric hairstyle called the five-point cut, worn by famous fashion designers including Mary Quant and film stars such as Mia Farrow, Goldie Hawn, Cameron Diaz, Nastassja Kinski and Helen Mirren.

His early life was one of extreme poverty, with seven years of his childhood spent in an orphanage. He quit school at age 14, soon holding various jobs in London during World War II. Although he hoped to become a professional football player, he became an apprentice hairdresser at the suggestion of his mother.

After developing a reputation for his innovative cuts, he moved to Los Angeles in the early 1970s, where he opened the first worldwide chain of hairstyling salons, complemented by a line of hair-treatment products.

He sold his business interests in the early 1980s and began funding Israeli think tanks with his profits. Vidal Sassoon: The Movie, a documentary film about his life, was released in 2010. In 2009, Sassoon was appointed CBE by Queen Elizabeth II at Buckingham Palace. In 2012, he was among the British cultural icons selected by artist Sir Peter Blake to appear in a new version of his most famous artwork, the album cover for the Beatles' Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, to celebrate the British cultural figures of the prior six decades.

Early life
Sassoon was born to Jewish parents in Hammersmith, West London, and lived nearby in Shepherd's Bush. His mother, Betty (Bellin) (1900–1997), an Ashkenazi Jew, was born in Aldgate, in the East End of London, in 1900. Although she was surrounded by grinding poverty, Sassoon writes that she nonetheless resolved to make the best of her life. Her family had emigrated to England from Ukraine in the 1880s to escape the antisemitism and pogroms then prevalent. His father, Jack Sassoon, a Sephardi Jew, was born in Thessaloniki, in the northern part of Greece. They met in 1925 and married in 1927. They then moved to Shepherd's Bush, which contained a community of Greek Jews. Sassoon had a younger brother, Ivor, who died from a heart attack at the age of 46.

His father abandoned the family for another woman when Vidal was three years old. With his mother now unable to support the family, they fell into poverty and were evicted, becoming suddenly homeless. They were forced to move in with his mother's older sister. There, they shared a two-room tenement with his aunt and her three children. The tiny flat where the seven of them lived had no bathroom or inside toilet, forcing them to share the one outside landing toilet with three other families. He remembered often standing in line to use it in freezing weather. Their roof was also falling apart, which let rain pour through. "All we could see from our windows was the greyness of the tenement across the street", writes Sassoon. "There was ugliness all around."

Due to poverty as a single parent, his mother eventually placed Sassoon and his younger brother in a Jewish orphanage, where they stayed for seven years, until he was 11, when his mother remarried. His mother was only allowed to visit them once a month and was never allowed to take them out.

Education
He attended Essendine Road Primary School, a Christian school of about a thousand children. He was frequently taunted by classmates as a "Yid" or with chants of "All Jews have long noses." One of his proudest days at the school was winning the 100-yard dash in an all-school contest. "The urge to win has never left me", he writes.

However, he says that he was "a very bad student" with abysmal grades in most classes, except for mental arithmetic. After one session of mental arithmetic, his master said teasingly, "Sassoon, it is a pleasure to see that you have gaps of intelligence between bouts of ignorance." He took a volunteer job as a choir boy for the local synagogue, which gave him one of the few chances to see his mother, who would come on Saturdays.

Sassoon and the other children at the school were evacuated after WWII began on 3 September 1939. He was eleven. "It's a date I'll never forget", he said. "Suddenly my brother and I and all our fellow orphans were on trains with hundreds of thousands of other kids, moving out of London." He and his brother were taken to Holt, Wiltshire, a small village of a thousand people."

First jobs
After his return to London he left school at the age of 14 and worked as a messenger. The war was in full force with London still being bombed, which forced him to sleep in underground shelters. During work hours, he said "I got used to seeing bodies and blood, and hearing cries of agony" as he carried messages from central London to the docks.

Upon the insistence of his mother, they tried to get him into a hairdressing apprenticeship; his mother told him that her ambition was for him to become a professional hairdresser. However, he saw himself becoming a football player, a sport he excelled at. "I could not imagine myself backcombing hair and winding up rollers for a living."

When she took him to the hairdressing school of a well-known stylist, Adolph Cohen, they were disappointed immediately when they were told it was a two-year programme and would cost much more than they could afford. "My mother looked so terribly dejected", he said, that as they left the salon, "I thought she might faint." A few minutes later, Cohen called them back to the salon, then told him, "You seem to have very good manners, young man. Start Monday and forget the cost." His mother began to cry out of joy.

Wartime activities
At the age of 17, although he had been too young to serve in World War II, he became the youngest member of the 43 Group, a Jewish veterans' underground organisation founded by Morris Beckman which broke up fascist meetings in East London to prevent Sir Oswald Mosley's movement from spreading "messages of hatred" in the period following World War II.

In 1948, at the age of 20, he joined the Palmach (which shortly afterwards was integrated into the Israel Defense Forces) and fought in the 1948 Arab–Israeli War, which began after Israel declared statehood. Sassoon arrived in Mandatory Palestine in April 1948, a month before Israeli independence. He fought in the Negev against the Egyptian Army. During an interview, he described the year he spent training with the Israelis as "the best year of my life", and recalled how he felt:

"When you think of 2,000 years of being put down and suddenly you are a nation rising, it was a wonderful feeling. There were only 600,000 people defending the country against five armies, so everyone had something to do."

Career
Sassoon resumed his hairdressing training under Raymond Bessone in his salon in Mayfair. Sassoon opened his first salon in 1954 in London; singer-actress Georgia Brown, his friend and neighbour, claimed to be his first customer.

Sassoon stated his intentions in designing new, more efficient, hair styles: "If I was going to be in hairdressing, I wanted to change things. I wanted to eliminate the superfluous and get down to the basic angles of cut and shape." Sassoon's works include the geometric perm and the "Nancy Kwan" hairstyles. They were all modern and low-maintenance. The hairstyles created by Sassoon relied on dark, straight, and shiny hair cut into geometric yet organic shapes. Peggy Moffitt’s hairstyle, an asymmetrical bowl cut created by Sassoon, became known as the "five point".

In 1964, Sassoon created a short, angular hairstyle cut on a horizontal plane that was the recreation of the classic "bob cut." His geometric haircuts seemed to be severely cut, but were entirely lacquer-free, relying on the natural shine of the hair for effect. Advertising and cosmetics executive Natalie Donay is credited with discovering Sassoon in London and bringing him to the United States, where in 1965, he opened his first New York City salon on Madison Avenue.

In 1966, inspired by 1920s film star Clara Bow's close cropped hair, he created designs for Emanuel Ungaro. Director Roman Polanski brought him to Hollywood from London in 1968, at a cost of $5,000, to create a unique pixie cut for Mia Farrow, who was to star in Rosemary's Baby.

In the early 1970s, Sassoon made Los Angeles his home. In 1971, he promoted his 30-year-old second-in-command, artistic director Roger Thompson, to director of the Sassoon salon, explaining jocularly that, "Twenty-five years of schlepping behind a barber chair are enough!" John Paul DeJoria, a friend of Sassoon, co-founded Paul Mitchell Systems with Paul Mitchell, one of Sassoon's former students. Mitchell said that Sassoon was "the most famous hairstylist in the history of the world."

Sassoon began his "Vidal Sassoon" line of hair-care products in 1973. The actor Michael Caine, who when young and struggling "was roommates with Terence Stamp and Vidal Sassoon – he used to cut my hair, and he always had a lot of models around", claimed to have inspired this, saying, "I told him that he must have something that is working for him while he slept. I told him he had to make shampoos and other hair-care products." Whatever the inspiration, Sassoon's brand was applied to shampoos and conditioners sold worldwide, with a commercial campaign featuring the slogan "If you don't look good, we don't look good." Former salon colleagues also bought Sassoon's salons and acquired the right to use his name, extending the brand in salons into the United Kingdom and the United States.

The El Paso, Texas-based Helen of Troy Corporation began manufacturing and marketing Sassoon hair-care products in 1980. In 1983, Richardson-Vicks purchased the Los Angeles-based Vidal Sassoon Inc. as well as Sassoon's Santa Monica, California, hairdressing school; the company had already bought his European businesses. Sassoon's 1982 sales of hair products had topped $110 million, with 80 percent of revenues derived in the US.

Two years later the company was bought by Procter & Gamble. Sassoon, who remained a consultant through at least the mid-1990s, sued P&G in 2003 for breach of contract and fraud in federal court for allegedly neglecting the marketing of his brand name in favour of the company's other hair product lines, such as Pantene.

He sold his business interests in the early 1980s to devote himself to philanthropy. By 2004, it was reported that Sassoon was no longer associated with the brand that bears his name. He also had a short-lived television series called Your New Day with Vidal Sassoon, which aired in 1980.

Sassoon was twice a guest on BBC Radio 4's Desert Island Discs, on 27 June 1970 and 9 October 2011, when he was also Resident Thinker on the Nowhereisland art project. He was a mystery guest on What's My Line? in March 1967.

Honours
Sassoon was appointed Commander of the Order of the British Empire (CBE) by Queen Elizabeth II at Buckingham Palace in the 2009 Birthday Honours.

Personal life

Sassoon was married four times, first to Elaine Wood, his salon receptionist, in 1956; the marriage ended in 1958. In 1967, he married actress Beverly Adams, whom he met while filming Torture Garden (1967). They had three biological children and one adopted son: daughter Catya (1968–2002), an actress who died from a drug-induced heart attack; son Elan BenVidal (b. 17 January 1970);  son David (b. circa 1972); and daughter Eden Sassoon. Some sources additionally cite Oley Sassone, a music-video director who spells his last name slightly differently, as a son but this appears to be in error. Sassoon and Adams divorced after 13 years of marriage. His third wife was Jeanette Hartford-Davis, a dressage champion and former fashion model; they married in 1983 and divorced soon after. In 1992, he married designer Rhonda "Ronnie" Sassoon.

Sassoon disinherited his son David, from whom he was estranged. In his 2010 autobiography Sassoon described David, adopted in 1975 at age 3, as an "African-American / Asian boy ... with twinkling eyes and an irresistible smile" who nonetheless became troubled and was eventually sent to a reform school.

Philanthropy
Sassoon had a lifelong commitment to eradicating anti-Semitism. He started the Vidal Sassoon International Center for the Study of Antisemitism, or SICSA, in 1982. Located at Hebrew University of Jerusalem, it is devoted to gathering information about antisemitism worldwide.

After selling his company, he worked towards philanthropic causes such as the Boys Clubs of America and the Performing Arts Council of the Music Center of Los Angeles via his Vidal Sassoon Foundation. He was also active in supporting relief efforts after Hurricane Katrina. It also funded educational pursuits on a need-basis in Israel and elsewhere. At the time of his death, he had academies in England, Canada and the United States, while planning to open ones in Germany and China.

Illness and death
In June 2011, it was reported that Sassoon had been diagnosed with leukemia two years earlier. He died from the disease on 9 May 2012 at his home in Bel Air, Los Angeles, in the presence of his family. A memorial service was planned for a later date.

Legacy
"Vidal was like Christopher Columbus", said Angus Mitchell, who studied under Sassoon. "He discovered that the world was round with his cutting system. It was the first language that people could follow." Neil Cornelius, the incumbent owner of Sassoon's first solo venture, called him a "hairdressing legend".

Grace Coddington, Sassoon's former model and creative director of American Vogue, said that he changed the way the public looked at hair:

"Before Sassoon, it was all back-combing and lacquer; the whole thing was to make it high and artificial. Suddenly you could put your fingers through your hair! He didn't create [the five-point cut] for me; he created it on me. It was an extraordinary cut; no one has bettered it since. And it liberated everyone. You could just sort of drip-dry it and shake it."

John Barrett of the John Barrett Salon at Bergdorf Goodman said that Sassoon "was the creator of sensual hair. This was somebody who changed our industry entirely, not just from the point of view of cutting hair but actually turning it into a business. He was one of the first who had a product line bought out by a major corporation".

Books and films

 * Sorry I Kept You Waiting, Madam (1968), his autobiography; New York: Putnam.
 * Cutting Hair the Vidal Sassoon Way (1984)
 * Vidal Sassoon: The Movie – How one man changed the world with a pair of scissors. (2010), a documentary film directed by Craig Teper.
 * Vidal Sassoon: The Movie – How one man changed the world with a pair of scissors. (2010), a documentary film directed by Craig Teper.
 * Vidal Sassoon: The Movie – How one man changed the world with a pair of scissors. (2010), a documentary film directed by Craig Teper.

title: Vidal Sassoon


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Talk:U.S. Route 10

Alternate routes
If there were Alternate routes in the past why are there not now? --Patricknoddy 13:55, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)User:Patricknoddy User talk:Patricknoddy 9:51 July 26, 2004 (EDT)
 * Shoudn't there be a Old Alternate routes section. --User:Patricknoddy User talk:Patricknoddy 17:52 December 23, 2004 (EDT)
 * That section should more appropriately be titled "Bannered routes", and include business routes and other types that may have existed. I don't see the problem with listing old and current ones together if it's made clear which is which. has all the old ALT routes. There were once N/S splits - .  has other bannered routes too. --SPUI 23:52, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Interesting fact
I noticed one route sign for US 10 west of Missoula, MT (at the Airport) that says - I believe - TO US 10 (can't remember which direction). Not worthy of mention in the article (it's original research), but its an interesting piece of trivia. There are many areas (some referenced) in the nation where US shields are present on decommissioned routes. -- master_son  Lets talk 15:19, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Indeed, you see one for US-99 (now WA-99) on the University Street on-ramp to the (soon-to-be-demolished) Alaskan Way Viaduct in Downtown Seattle. Ahfretheim (talk) 06:40, 26 September 2018 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20070513111800/http://www.us-highways.com:80/us1830.htm to http://www.us-highways.com/us1830.htm

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Divided highways in Montana
The US 10N and US 10S Divided U.S. Routes of US 10 should be added to this page. Charlotte Allison (Morriswa) (talk) 14:32, 3 June 2017 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:U.S. Route 10


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Talk:Louis Vuitton

Pronunciation
The spelling and pronunciation have no correlation. Shouldn't it be [lou-is vu-it-on]. The french seem to be crazy? But I dont want to disrupt the page. 210.212.162.179 (talk) 10:21, 18 June 2021 (UTC)

 * Au contraire, mon ami, les francais sont pas crazy, they dont question the pronounciation or spelling of somebody's name!! Americans now, they are crazy, I mean, look at their gun laws!! - Roxy the grumpy dog . wooF 19:03, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Controversy section - failing WP:DUE and WP:NOTNEWS
The current controversy section would seem to violate quite a number of policies. It mainly consists of rather detailed descriptions of perfectly trivial events without any relevance, most of which are very recent. Wikipedia is WP:NOTNEWS, and the tendency for some users (certainly acting in good faith) to add any minor aspect found in the press is fails both not news and WP:DUE. If something is not relevant in ten years, it's not relevant for an 'encyclopaedia today either. Reading the very long controversy section, I struggle to find any real controversy, meaning anything that would go beyond having been mentioned in the news a couple of times and quickly forgotten. Again, the idea here is not to mention every time a company (especially not a major one) is featured in media. Jeppiz (talk) 23:21, 29 July 2021 (UTC)

MUN collaboration
Hey, I'm from mun team. Our team wants to collaborate with you. If you are interested so I'm waiting for your positive response. Thanks Regards Mun team. 202.5.142.139 (talk) 18:26, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

 * What is Mun team? - Roxy the grumpy dog . wooF 19:05, 30 May 2022 (UTC)

Nazi collaboration section
There seems to be a mix-up with the sections "History" and "Nazi collaboration", the second one should be under the "History" section and parts 2.1, 2.2 and 2,3 as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by -nickyssa (talk • contribs) 08:38, June 23, 2022 (UTC)

 * ✅ Changed to a level 3 heading. Z1720 (talk) 14:09, 23 June 2022 (UTC)

Brand ranking error
Under "Brand and Intellectual Property," it says that a study showed LV to be the 19th most valuable brand in the world. However, the study says on page 9 that it was the 29th. 2601:40A:8300:1010:3C92:3402:A841:C25E (talk) 00:09, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 July 2023
The pattern is not based on Japanese "mon", but a Pipa given to Japan by the Chinese emperor. Source:https://www.narahaku.go.jp/english/http://home.kpn.nl/ooije006/sashimisen/things_japanese/biwa_p.html

https://shosoin.kunaicho.go.jp/en-US/treasures?id=0000014804&index=5

https://www.jstor.org/stable/833840?seq=1

https://www.lcsd.gov.hk/en/mo/common/doc/RETMJP.pdf

https://www.yoogiscloset.com/louis-vuitton/guide

https://hk.asiatatler.com/life/louis-vuitton-tokyo-exhibition-volez-voguez-voyagez

https://www.ft.com/content/bebc244c-0324-11e6-af1d-c47326021344

https://forums.littletinyfrogs.com/399537/louis-vuitton-history BYDaicing (talk) 10:34, 12 July 2023 (UTC)

Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The only source I could review and would accept as reliable is Tatler Asia, and it isn't clear that it supports your argument. Please specify exactly what you want to change, and back it up with sources that say that exact thing. Thanks, Xan747 (talk) 01:03, 13 July 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 August 2023
Under 'Products', correct Moyene Modele] to Moyene Modele, Anemoiia (talk) 12:34, 19 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  13:18, 19 August 2023 (UTC)

Louis Vuitton and Adidas
They are the best@louis Vuitton 41.121.121.34 (talk) 21:10, 21 May 2024 (UTC)

Critisism by animal rights organizations
Luois Vuitton is critisized by many organizations and activists for the usage of fur and other animal products, prominently shown on the Mila fashion week 2024. I wrote a section about this topic in the German wikipedia (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louis_Vuitton#Kritik) and would add this in the Critisism section. Currently, I don't have the possibility to edit due to the semi-protection. Esquerita! (talk) 16:37, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Louis Vuitton


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Talk:Nerdcore

Hail Mary Mallon

 * I think that Aesop Rock and Rob Sonic's duo Hail Mary Mallon might be considered Nerdcore. It might be to aggressive though.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mystery mustache man (talk • contribs) 14:08, 10 May 2017 (UTC)

After a bit more research and consideration, I have decided that Hairy Male Melon is almost definitely not Needcore. 15:29, 5 June 2017 (UTC) Mystery mustache man (talk) 15:29, 5 June 2017 (UTC)

Geek Rock

 * I cross-linked this and the "Geek Rock" article as they're related... Perhaps there should be a catagory for geek music?

 * I consider Deltron3030's album prior art and definetely Del's lyrics have been about technology and its culture since long time ago (before Nerdcore) but I dunno about classifing it as "nerdcore" since the genre is mostly about college kids playing. Dan The Automator, Kid Koala and DEL are pretty big names, more after the whole Gorillaz project.  Will edit and write a bit about Deltron. - Wyz

 * Would you consider some of Del Tha Funkee Homosapien's music nerdcore? I'm thinking specifically "Proto Culture" (which is about Sega, arcades, and video games) and lots of the songs of "Deltron 3030", which are all kind of fantasy-ish and resemble the plotline of a video game. Anyone know what I'm talking about? -Rob
 * Del isn't nerdcore in itself, but Deltron (as a side-project) is. So is MC Paul Berman, I think. It's not just about subject matter, but style too. Fearwig 02:04, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * For the record, Barman doesn't consider himself to be nerdcore, and in fact refers to nerdcore as a "fictional subgenre", as if any other subgenre is so much more valid. Personally, I feel he's a talentless hack and if he doesn't want to be on a list of NC.HH artists, the list is better off without him, but I won't do the edits myself because I don't want to seem like I'm forcing my personal opinions and preferences onto the article (unlike certain "crackers" I could name). - Ugliness Man 11:27, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * lol @ u - this issue has been ironed out in detail with everyone but you. i have kept my word since. Ytcracker 16:55, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The issue hasn't been "ironed out in detail" or fully resolved, it's just that most of us got sick of arguing with a brick wall and playing edit ping-pong. When someone who has almost zero cred declares himself to be a "godfather" (without explaining what he's supposedly a "godfather" of), it quickly becomes apparant that arguing with this person is futile. - Ugliness Man 10:44, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
 * i'm just a godfather get over it. i'm glad it's "apparant" arguing with me is futile.  p.s. i think "most of us" is only you.  congratulations. Ytcracker 02:38, 8 June 2006 (UTC)

a buh? what do you mean nerdcore? how do you define nerd? i want answers please
 * Nerd has (and deserves) its own article; it is a complicated concept, and can mean vastly different things depending on the context. "Nerdcore" is a genre of hip hop written by people who define themselves (or, in some cases, are defined by others) as nerds. Does the article not explain this adequately? 129.2.211.72 07:02, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * It reads pretty crystal to me. —RaD Man (talk) 15:34, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Whatever happened to the Geek Rock article, anyway? ElbowLick (talk) 10:10, 15 January 2011 (UTC)

The Great Luke Ski
Should The Great Luke Ski perhaps be under the list of notable Nerdcore artists, as opposed to related artists? His songs are almost consistently about nerdy things, and somewhere around half of his songs are original productions. Shralla 08:28, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

 * True, but Luke Ski works mostly with parodies and rarely raps. (Animedude (talk) 09:50, 23 March 2008 (UTC))

 * As long as I've known Luke, he's always considered himself a "Filk" artist. He dose not limit himself to Rap / Hip Hop....   But without a doubt he does geek / nerd themed Rap / Hip Hop, and has for at least a decade. He has always considered himself as following in the footsteps of "Funny Music" musicians like Weird Al and Dr Demento. I would have to recognize the guy as one of the first Nerdcore artists; even if I dislike the guy :P I might go so far as to suggest that this article be merged as a sub genre of Filk.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.13.14.234 (talk) 00:10, 26 June 2012 (UTC)

N*E*R*D
Just wondering if N*E*R*D are considered nerd rap?
 * Nope, not really. —RaD Man (talk) 01:11, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I strongly disagree that 2 Skinee Js are NerdCore. They should be removed from the article entirely. Nerdcore has a necessary element that the music be produced in your bedroom on your PC (or MAC.) Now this does not have to be LITERALLY true, but the music has to embrace this ethos in order to qualify for the genre. (small world RaD Man, I followed a link from here: PHiZ 06:31, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Frontalot founded the genre, so if he says somebody belongs to it, I'm happy to take his word on it. Now, he also mentions Deltron 3030, as I recall, and people seem to have decided they don't belong in the main list, so if you want to remove them from the list and give your reasons for doing so, that's fine. But they certainly shouldn't be removed from the article entirely, as you suggest; they are, perhaps, an example of "proto-nerdcore". The roots of the nerdcore movement could really be explored in quite a lot of depth, in fact. One could even make a case for tracing things back to the Beastie Boys, if one were so inclined. 129.2.253.240 00:28, 30 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say Frontalot FOUNDED the genre. He gave it a name, and brought it to a new level of visibility. And my Kangol is off to him for that. Jason Gortician 04:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

People can be nerdy and still not be nerdcore. The artists approved on this page focus on their nerdiness and utilize it.

This whole topic has major issues. Nerdcore is, by definition, a fringe genre with loose associations with hip hop in general, and its own entirely unique community. Including legit underground hip hop artists like Doom, Del, Kool Keith, and the Beastie Boys is illogical as they are still recognized as eccentric members of the hip hop community itself, which none of the nerdcore artists profiled here do in any way. "Proto-nerdcore" is a ridiculous description, like the "Metal Roots" category shortsighted metalheads gave to rock groups like Led Zeppelin, Hendrix, etc. in the 80's.  Just because nerdcore artists identify with these artists does not bring them into their community. Be fair. If it's just so-called "nerdy concepts" you end up bringing in KRS-ONE, Pun, Wu-Tang, the Weathermen, ad nauseum. The idea of nerd rap still carries a very negative connotation even in the New York indie community (look at the Weathermen/Demigods beef), and while the "nerdcore" artists embrace this term, most of the rest of us do not. Daviddun 03:17, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * If you look at the external links, you can see that Kool Keith (as Dr Octagon) submitted his song "Ants" to Rhyme Torrents, a nerdcore compilation. So Keith is now calling himself nerdcore, at least sometimes. It's true, none of the rest explicitly identify as "nerdcore". The article never said they did. However, claiming that groups like Deltron 3030 didn't influence nerdcore is absurd. MC Frontalot has specifically cited them as an influence. MC Paul Barman appeared on their album, and I notice you didn't remove him from the list of related artists. Maybe the term "proto-nerdcore" is pushing it (I'll try and change it), but the point is that they are influences. Note that this says nothing about them and everything about nerdcore. The fact is, Led Zeppelin and Hendrix did influence heavy metal artists, among many, many others. That doesn't make Hendrix metal, but it does mean that metal's roots are (in part) in Hendrix. (For that matter, John Lydon auditioned for the Sex Pistols in an "I Hate Pink Floyd" shirt; rebelling against other musical genres was key to the distinct sound and attitude of the Pistols. I'm not claiming Johnny Rotten's homemade t-shirt makes Pink Floyd punk rock, but simply that they were an influence, and worth mentioning.) So chill out. Nobody ever said any of the artists you yanked from the article were nerdcore, except Dr Octagon, and as I said, he is nerdcore. The article specifically states that simply singing about nerdy topics doesn't make a band nerdcore, right there in the intro: "The difference is largely one of self-identification." If they don't call themselves nerdcore, they don't have to be. But they're still relevant, and they still belong in the article. If you don't feel the distinction's drawn clearly enough, please feel free to edit things. But don't just slash holes in the lists. 69.140.12.199 04:43, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

Vette link
I changed the "Vette" link in "Fett's Vette" from Chevrolet Corvette to Corvette. It was reverted. This seems odd - the corvette article describes "a small, maneuverable, lightly armed warship," and while it is referring to a naval ship, not spaceship, this seems significantly closer to the meaning of "corvette" in star wars than a sports car manufactured by GM. Perhaps the reasoning for the revert can be explained? —Ethan0 09:50, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I've always assumed that he was refering the the car - although your explaination does make sense. It seemed that mc chris gave him a GM Corvette but on lease - hense needing to finance his 'vette through bounties. Craig Sniffen 17:08, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

 * he has a delorian.. why would he need two cars? It's fairly obvious he's talking about a Corellian Corvette. -User:GURT

 * Corvette is a term used in Star Wars for a number of ships, including Corellian Corvette (first ship we see in Star Wars). It seems quite unlikely to me that mc chris refers to GM's.
 * I more recently found the Slave I article - this seems like a more appropriate thing to link to than either of the other two. -Ethan0 05:29, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

 * mc chris was most certainly talking about a Chevrolet Corvette when he named the song. The song intermingles the typical Star Wars universe with popular culture, and compares Boba Fett to successful people in our world. Shralla 08:20, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
 * It's possible chris was speaking of both. Using the fact that "'vette" or "corvette" can both refrence a car AND a ship in Star Wars. This my friends is known as a "pun". Making monthly payments on a spaceship seems unlikely, as does Boba Fette owning a GM. Doesn't seem unlikely that he could just be being clever. (Animedude 09:27, 26 August 2007 (UTC))

 * Again, in the "both" camp, it's worth noting that Fette's Vette is the first in a series of undeniably car-themed song titles: IG-88's '57 Chevy, zuckuss' prius and Dengar's Dumptruck. Anarchangel23 (talk) 15:47, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

MC Chmod
Keep poor Chmod out of this. He's me, and he's never recorded a damn thing fit for public consumption, trust me. When I first wrote this article, I put him in the list as a joke for friends, which I know was pretty silly, but what the hell. Unfortunately, he keeps popping up in the list, and he most definitely doesn't belong there. I apologize. 129.2.253.240 00:31, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Optimus Rhyme
I changed the link from Optimus Rhyme's webpage to the Optimus Rhyme wikipedia-entry.

Greets, -Styx 12:30, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Goldie Lookin' Chain
These are a lot more than nerdcore but kind of verge on it in places - especially with the 80s home computer obssesion. Morwen - Talk 14:44, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

High-C - Nerdcore Since 1995
That was a pretty ill edit, taking High-C off. A rapper since 1988, his first track 'Godzilla' was recorded using an Amiga 500 in 1995. High-C first became known via Usenet text battles in alt.rap and rec.music.hip-hop around 1996.

It's hard to deny the geek value of lyrics like "You're just a smurfer on a co-located server, and I serve my active pages with fervor", or an entire verse centered around 'Lord of the Rings'. "Stars in My Pocket Like Grains of Sand" contains the lyric "I pull out the guide and it says 'Don't Panic'". Another snippet from Usenet (Nov 7 1996) said:

"When it comes to flamin' lamers You know I'm the master But profanity's a crutch for inarticlate bastards I'm like Telnet - i'm here but I'm there Travel around the world never leavin my chair It's just another hit from the bayou blaster When I grip the mic like a Jedi master Hardwired like a neuromancer Funky as a mothafuckin' Soul Train dancer I got rhymes that I ain't even said yet I'm engineerin' shit just like Lew Eggebrecht Cuz I been hackin and crackin 2600 phrackin
 Phone phreakin and tweakin
 Electronically jackin
 Snuff rhymes I wrote 'em
 So that you can quote 'em
 To all the cypherpunks I communicate by modem".

50 Quatloos if you know who Lew Eggebrecht is.

Jason Gortician 04:22, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

Unjust omissions
When the hell did this start? Apparantly if a nerdcore artist doesn't have their own article, they aren't allowed to be included in a list. This makes no sense at all. Just because someone hasn't taken the time to do an article on a nerdcore artist doesn't mean they're not noteable, and it doesn't mean they don't belong on the list. The worst part about it is that at least one of the wikipedians responsible for the rampant deletions is (allegedly) a nerdcore artist himself. To me, this smacks of bias. An easy way to take a poke at the competition is by repeatedly remove them from this article, at the same time inflating his own article (and possibly other artists he supports). This sort of bullying needs to stop. Instead of saying that they don't belong on the list if they don't have an article, we should put them on the list if external links show that their inclusion is appropriate, then allow people to start articles on them by clicking their names on the list. I don't know how many more ways I have to say this, but there is absolutely no sane and acceptable reason to keep taking Beefy and Jesse Dangerously off the list. I don't know a lot about Beefy, but Jesse D has been doing this for awhile, he has a few CDs out there, he's currently touring, and he appeared on MC Frontalot's "Nerdcore Rising" as a featured vocalist. What more do you need? - Ugliness Man 12:40, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

An external links list would be a great solution. There needs to be a good reason to take an MC off of this list. Internecine rivalries are silly, in this case. If you're an MC, your rhymes are the deciding factor, not what some over-zealous editor considers nerdcore. If it is an MC removing other nerdcore artists, how weak is that? - Jason Gortician 12:40, 03 March 2006 (UTC)

 * There shouldn't be a list at all, but if there must, at least move it to list of nerdcore hip hop performers or something. Limiting it to entries with Wikipedia articles seems reasonable to me, but then, as noted, I'd rather not have a list at all -- seems redundant with a category. Tuf-Kat 18:05, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * And there should absolutely not be anyone on the list with an external link to their homepage. Tuf-Kat 18:07, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Why? That makes no sense.  If they don't have a Wikipedia article, but they are a NC.HH artist, and their page (the external link) is the verification, what's the problem?  If someone puts them on the list without a link, someone else steps in and deletes it saying it's "not noteable" or something like that.  If an artist isn't linked, they're deemed unworthy, but if an artist is linked, it's spam?  Am I the only one who sees the problem here? - Ugliness Man 18:23, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Because Wikipedia is supposed to be a self-contained unit. If they're notable enough to be mentioned they should be linked and have an article onsite.  If they don't yet have an article, it should be a redlink. Tuf-Kat 06:09, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
 * "Wikipedia is supposed to be a self-contained unit." < This is the opposite of true. 128.12.110.50 19:25, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

I reverted the last comment as per WP:NPA Intinn 11:52, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

 * So you condone (or support) Ytcracker's bullying and tactics? Pretty sad.  This is supposed to be an online encyclopedia, not a pissing contest where a hack can screw around with the competition and go unchallenged.  I guess NC.HH rappers are too polite to get into a beef war with that chump and take him down, but eventually the real geeks will win the battle.  This is far from over. - Ugliness Man 16:14, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * He's never posted to the hip-hop newsgroups under his own name, that I can see. I've been the alpha geek there for nearly ten years. If he has anything to say, he knows where to find me. Jason Gortician 08:38, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I just removed one paragraph from this talk page which was full of personal attacks. Of course everyone is free to dig it up from history and revert it if they disagree with me removing it. Intinn 21:23, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

 * bullying? i didnt put that note there about having referenced articles, someone else did - for example, i think beefy actually deserves an article - hes been featured on radio broadcasts and the like.  i just think its stupid to have a shitton of artists in there who have no genuine credibility.  it wouldnt walk on any other form of music and i dont think examples of dirty south artists or old school artists, etc. have a huge list of people getting added and readded who arent prominent members of the genre.  i guess i am biased because i have over 160 tracks available and have absolute, undeniable credibility in this genre.  some of these artists who have started their articles have been VfDed successfully so why would they belong here? Ytcracker 19:11, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

 * oh and as a postscript, calling me a chump, inciting a beef war, and talking about real geeks winning the battle or whatever else is really retarded. ill collaborate with anyone, have always released my music for free, and dont even see this as a matter of competition.  dont get it twisted up.  as i said before, would you cloud any other form of musics wiki article with a ton of external links of mainly one-offs?  probably not.  im a godfather - recognize. Ytcracker 19:32, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm not intending to "incite" anything, I don't start beefs, I'm just calling it like I see it. And I'm having a real problem accepting such a holier than thou attitude from someone who uses such idiotic cliches and seems to be afraid of apostrophes and the Shift key.  Bragging about how many tracks you have is nothing, since quantity is not the same as quality.  Pointing out that you'll "collaborate with anyone" is also nothing since nobody of consequence would bother collaborating with you.  There's no basis for claiming that the acts you keep deleting are "one offs", but your idiotic comment on "clouding" is a moot point, since this is a specific enough sub-genre that the list is justified.  And just what the hell are you a "godfather" of?  If anything, you're a bandwagonner, and that "recognize" bullshit just shows you for the chump you are.  Here's the bottom line: you are not an impartial or disinterested third party, so your constant removal of other artists from this article just reeks of bias.  You do not own Wikipedia, stop treating it like it's your bitch. - Ugliness Man 20:09, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

 * im incredibly ecstatic that the grammar police has shown up to criticize my usage of the apostrophe and shift key. frankly, if you really want to pollute this entry with whatever external links to whatever artists you like, ill quit editing them out and let some admin do it like Tuf-Kat, who i believe posted the rule in the first place.  you dont know a fucking thing about me, who ive performed with, who ive collaborated with, how long ive been doing what ive been doing - i dont even think my own article has ALL of the specifics.  anyway, if it hurts your ass so much that i am editing people out as per the rule posted, ill quit just for you, honeybear.  kisses and hugs.  love, the godfather aka the silicon don nerd life forever Ytcracker 00:20, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Both of you are violating Wikipedia policy by using personal attacks. No personal attacks is a potentially blockable offense. Please be aware of the WP:3RR, because both of you can be blocked for breaking it. No agreement or consensus can occur on this page unless an honest and fruitful discussion begins. Tuf-Kat 06:02, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

 * For the record, I've been trying to avoid performing any revisions myself, for just that reason. I've only been objecting to what I saw as bad behaviour.  I feel that none of this will ever be "honest and fruitful" as long as a (somewhat self-proclaimed) NC.HH artist is involved in the editing process.  If we do go with the earlier suggestion of moving the list of artists to a separate article, that way artists who don't yet have articles can be listed with only external links, as long as those external links are sufficient proof that the artists are noteworthy.  And by the way, your comment from earlier, "If they don't yet have an article, it should be a redlink", doesn't take into account the fact that crackerboy here, and his sock puppets, remove redlinks almost as soon as their added, so most people don't even get a chance to see those redlinks. - Ugliness Man 08:03, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

 * crackerboy and the sock puppets? you're such a sweetheart and i love you.  just bury the hatchet - i already said if you are going to get all riled up over it because i'm involved in the genre, i won't bother touching the artists in the article.  i don't have any problem refraining from edits, but should the scene grow to any level of true significance, i am positive you are going to see a 100+ person list of people who really did jump on the bandwagon.  i voted keep in FSRs VfD, would love to see Beefy on here, and would love to research others in the genre who are actually active and productive.  again, i have ZERO problems with not touching this article and letting you decide who is worthy and who isn't.  cheers.  Ytcracker 05:51, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Hey, Beefy here. I know what could fix this! Just let me have a wiki article! No? Ok, fine. Let the madness continue. For the record, I have no beef with yt or any other artist. And I do think that some artists don't belong on the list if they really only have a handful of songs. I only have a few myself but the collection grows and I like to think I'm gaining a bit of respect in the nerdcore community. Some artists who come up with a couple catchy nerd songs may not deserve to be on the list. But I honestly don't know how you'd judge that kind of thing. And any nerdcore guy or gal who says they wouldn't want to collaborate with yt is a fool! Beefy 01:55, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

So which of you removed the High-C link, and why? Be a man and tell us, if you dare. - Jason Gortician 04:20, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

Everyone, it's not about anyone being just or unjust, and Wikipedia is not a place for people to argue. Any nerdcore artist who isn't verifiable is likely to be removed. That's how it goes; this is an encyclopedia, we do not include just anything. Friday (talk) 00:50, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Verifiable as nerdcore would involve...reading their lyrics and listening to their music. Jason Gortician 01:41, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, looking into it, LOTR and a few others don't seem to meet Wikipedia's specious criteria for inclusion. Why haven't you deleted them? Jason Gortician 08:33, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Verifiability has nothing at all to do with reading their lyrics or listening to their music. Verifiability is about finding reliable sources- your own interpretations of the music belong on another site, not Wikipedia.  The page at WP:V I keep referrring you to explains all of this.  Anyway, thanks for the tip- I do see some others who have no indication of meeting WP:MUSIC.  If you want to help, you can do a proposed deletion on those articles by inserting things like  at the top of them.  You can give whatever reason you think is appropriate.  As a general rule, bands that fail the music guideline are likely to be deleted. No sure why you call the music guideline specious- have you read it?  It's pretty clear, and we try to apply it to the band articles we find.  I believe that guideline came about because we get tons of articles on bands, and a large precentage of them are things we don't want.  This being an encyclopedia, we can't have things that are unverifiable, and we don't want to cover every local bar band in the world. Friday (talk) 14:13, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Deleting content is not my style. "Some create, while others destroy..." If this is a nerdcore page, and Frontalot is the acknowledged founder of that movement, his whole point was being indy, unpopular, obscure, unknown. And the impact a band has can't always be measured by mainstream sources.

 * For example, my grind band, Gortician was one of the biggest unsigned metal bands of all time. We outcharted Cannibal Corpse and Six Feet Under (major label metal acts) on MP3.com with BOOM BOX TAPES. Guntgrutcher and Cannibal Crave wrote songs about us. Benalto credited us with influencing them to write two different songs. Space War online has a race of people named after us. We were at the spearhead of the entire underground metal scene online. Napalm Death, At The Gates, Brutal Truth and others still wear our t-shirts. For those in the know, Gortician is legendary. Unsung Hero Records released several of our CDs.

 * But I have a feeling that you'd still delete us if I wrote it up. You're applying mainstream criteria to underground acts. For that matter, High-C regularly outcharted Bushwick Bill on the Lafayette, LA MP3.com charts, and dominated the keystyle battle scene on Usenet for the duration it lasted. I'll get a CD to AMG if that will appease you. But this article is about nerdcore artists. Not nerdcore artists with major and indy label releases. Do you police all groups/genres (less than an hour after I posted the article), or just the nerdcore scene? Jason Gortician 21:54, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree with Tuf-Kat: We shouldn't be linking to people's personal homepages here. We're not here to publicize unknown artist- the encyclopedia should mention only those who are well documented in reliable sources. I'll probably continue removing external links from the list. Friday (talk) 22:11, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

 * External links and personal pages aren't the same thing. If the only link provided for an artist is a myspace with one song and a bunch of insipid "OMG eye am sooooooooo nerd!!!" blog entries, than I understand the removal.  But if someone adds an artist to the list, and provides an external link, and the fact that it's an external link is the only justification for removing them, that's not quality control, that's tyranny.  If you don't want to take the time to check the link and see if the artist in question is noteworthy, and you simply remove the artist based only on the fact that it's an external link, that's the opposite of verification.  It's a bit of a contradiction, IMO, for someone to put so much effort into constantly removing these artists from the list, yet "doesn't have the time" to see whether or not that artist should be removed.  Wikipedia doesn't need indiscriminate lazy janitors, it needs editors who care enough about the articles to take a moment to check things out before they make these decisions.  In other words, if you don't care about NC.HH enough to actually look at the pages, then you should just ignore the NC.HH article altogether. - Ugliness Man 06:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Judging them on whether their websites are insipid or not is the exact sort of thing we do not do here- that would amount to original research. If you disagree with WP:V, take it up on that talk page if you must.  But please don't argue that point on individual article talk pages.  For those who think that only nerdcore artists or fans are qualified to edit this article, please see WP:OWN.   Any competant editor is capable of helping to ensure our articles are verifiable- it's what's expected of every editor.  If some artists are "underground" and inherently unverifiable, we can't include them here.  WP:V is non-negotiable.  If you want to write whatever you like without regard for Wikipedia's editorial policies, you're free to do so on your own web site.   Friday (talk) 13:40, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

I made a page "List of obscure nerdcore artists" and moved all the obscure(or deleted, from the history) people to there. Hopefully that will be a solution acceptible to all. There are not many good nerdcore references on the net and without these links it is impossible to discover many of these worthy songs, even if they aren't Notable or Verifiable or any of those important sounding terms. Perle 14:51, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for nothing, Friday. Perle 14:52, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Content forking provides a good overview on content forking. There are good reasons and bad reasons to do it. Trying to avoid verifiability concerns is bad reason. I've turned List of obscure nerdcore artists into a redirect here. If the genre is verifiable, it's good to have an article on it. It's not good to take a bunch of unverifiable stuff and stick it into a list. If people disagree, it can be discussed, but please: If what you disagree with is the verifiability policy itself, don't argue that here. Friday (talk) 14:57, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

 * "It's not good to take a bunch of unverifiable stuff and stick it into a list." Why not? And if it is a list of links, isn't it verified by its very nature? A link's verification is the fact that it exists on the internet. The page doesn't include research about the artists or anything, just a statement that such links exist for those who are interested, and subsumes them under the weakest useful categorization possible. Perle 15:29, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Jason Gortician take a look at my edits; is that an acceptable solution to you? (clearly not to Friday or YT) Perle 15:08, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

 * It looks like 24/7 remover Friday already took your changes down. I say we do the nerdcore page, and link it externally. As for High-C, Unsung Hero Records is going to release 'Bootleg' from Meter Vs. Yard, and a High-C e.p. That's two indy releases. From there, I'll get copies to AMG, and a few reviews under my belt. Altrap.com will probably be the first. Then I guess I'll pay for my 12" on my own, since my DJ seems to be under the weather of late. If my article gets deleted after that, I'm picking up metal. YT seems to have run! away! Jason Gortician 18:27, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

 * i told you guys i'd stay out of this and let everyone else play it out. i've been following the discussion but i simply won't edit the artists section anymore, and was only doing so per the rule posted.  again, i don't see anyone else in the genre as "competition", nor have i ever removed anyone out of malice, etc. Ytcracker 18:32, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

 * and i hope you're kidding about the "is friday ytcracker?" comment - as i said before i don't give a shit - i'll link any nerdcore artist from my own frontpage on my own website if it will clear the air that i deleted anyone because i have something against them. Ytcracker 18:39, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

 * That'd be very big of you. Perle and I are working on a definitive page, and we wouldn't dream of excluding you. You've received national press coverage, after all. Want to just throw in on one big nerdcore site with us? I'll even spring for the domain and hosting. You might provide balance to the force. I see no point in there being rifts in this tiny, burgeoning scene. Jokey beefs aside.

 * Rapped at Player's Ball? Damn, G. If only Friday had your sensibility. P.S. [BeDoper's Portal] has links to High-C, Meter Versus Yard, Old Scratch and Andrew Octopus. As much as I'd love a link, I'm much more interested in other nerdcore artists listening to some of my tracks. Jason Gortician 20:19, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

In more sensible mode, I'd say the Sebutones qualify for nerdcore (Buck 65 and Sixtoo get spacey and futuristic). Is Buck 65 nerdcore? How about every MC to ever come out of Canada? Governor Bolts may well qualify, too. This labeling thing sort of suxors. But, food for thought, anyway. Jason Gortician 21:59, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Just so we're clear, we're saying that I'm not a verifiable nerdcore artist? I'm 98% my songs say otherwise. This genre is new and it is small and I don't think it can grow easily by people saying, "These guys who have been in a bunch magazine articles can be on the list, but this kid who's only been on the radio can't be." At this point I don't want to be on the list, but it is pretty upsetting that what I put out isn't good enough to be documented by wikipedia, the end all and be all of verification. I'm good enough to be on these documentaries and whatnot, but since I haven't been on G4 I suck?Beefy 10:45, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

 * In all fairness, Captain Beefyheart, Friday is the only over-zealous editor who thinks that. The rest of us wish he would piss off and make positive contributions, preferably elsewhere. It's abundantly clear that you are nerdcore as hell. Jason Gortician 21:26, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

 * i agree that you are. what i *think* may be going on is WP:MUSIC has certain guidelines as far as significance goes - just because a band would get a writeup in a local paper kind of thing doesn't necessarily qualify them for wikipedia - at a cursory glance.  however, the section in WP:MUSIC starting with "For performers outside of mass media traditions:" (cntl-f for it), i think most of us qualify, especially as the scene grows and the primary originators receive recognition. Ytcracker 08:43, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

 * That's a good point. I'd say Meester Beefy qualifies on the basis of his appearance in the upcoming Nerdcore documentary. I wonder if he used that sample from Little Nicky yet? "Say my name: Mr. Beefy!". At any rate, I plan on writing him up next. Peace. Jason Gortician 23:56, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Friday is at it again. Now he's listed the High-C page for deletion, and gotten several other people to support him, even though I've provided two indy releases that High-C appeared on. And they say the lyrics are a copyright violation? I'm getting sick of this cocksucker. They're even trying to hi-jack the name High-C and redirect it to Hi-C. Jealous punks. Jason Gortician 21:43, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Furthermore, trying to take Jesse off, and keeping Beefy off is a pile of crap. Man up, nerds. Jason Gortician 02:46, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

 * This is still the saddest pit of infighting, nearly a decade after nerdcore lost relevance. MC Rooter (talk) 05:53, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Nerdcore, not Nerdcore hip-hop
I know this is nitpicking, but it seems strange for the title of the article to be "Nerdcore hip-hop" rather that simply "Nerdcore". It's along the lines of calling Industrial music "Industrial Metal", a bit redundant. I would change the title myself, but I'm not yet well-versed enough to do that. --DestradoZero 19:21, 24 May 2006
 * The first recorded use of the word "nerdcore" was in the MC Frontalont song "Nerdcore Hiphop", which begins with the line "Nerdcore hip hop, other rappers run in fear..." There was some early variation on how many words it was - Frontalot originally spelled it "Nerdcore Hiphop" in the title, but "nerd core hip hip" in the lyrics - but we seem to have settled on three. I see absolutely no reason to change the genre name; this is the name it's had from day one. 69.140.12.199 22:33, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Actually, "nerdcore" used to refer to geeky punk/emo type stuff. So "nerdcore hip-hop" is entirely correct. 74.234.67.188 17:15, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Would that original nerdcore include artists like The Impossibles? ReverendG 18:41, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

Either way doesn't bother me, but the first person said something completely wrong. Industrial metal is a completely different genre than industrial music. Industrial metal just happens to be a fusion genre mixing heavy metal and industrial music. Industrial music has its own complete separate history from heavy metal and is much more related to experimental music, noise, electronic music and post-punk. Not the same at all. 76.114.42.231 (talk) 12:26, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Putting on my rewrite pants
I made some heavy revisions to the article; feel free to hate them and revert them on sight. But somebody write a stub or something for poor Baddd Spellah, Frontalot's primary beatsmith. He clearly and undisputably meets WP:MUSIC, and he didn't even get an external link before. 69.140.12.199 00:34, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
 * For bonus points, I added a Wikiquote article. It's very scanty and hastily done; it could be significantly expanded by someone with a bit more motivation. It does, at least, quote most of the songs mentioned in passing in the article body. 69.140.12.199 16:42, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Old school nerdcore
I'm digging the nerdcore music and genre, and have followed computer music for a very long time. This brought back memories of an early rap track produced and distributed via BBSes called "Vote 4 Me" by Leinad of Avalanche (demo group). I believe it was in the Assembly 1994 music compo. It might be worth noting him as one of the earliest nerdcore rappers (albeit at 14400bps the files couldn't be too large). Thanks to scene.org, the song is still availible and free to download (requires a MOD file player, winamp, etc) as it was a tracker file): http://www.scene.org/file.php?file=%2Fparties%2F1994%2Fassembly94%2Fm4ch%2Fvote4me.zip&fileinfo ... he had another rap mod song as well, but I can't remember the name. - telmnstr

Frontalittle Squad?
Should the Frontalittle Squad be included? They've been around for a few years now and have released a lot more tracks than some of the artists on here. They're included on the Rhymetorrents compilation and one of their members (Glenn Case) has worked with MC Frontalot and MC Chris. Unfortunately I don't know that there's enough citable information on them to merit inclusion. Someone had requested an article for them on Requested_articles/music, but I'm pretty sure there's not enough there for a real article just yet. Just wanted to breach the topic in case anyone here wants to discuss it. 74.132.201.208 05:44, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Wired Article on NCHH
All of the NCHH artists who appeared in Wired (page 62, September 2006) should now be eligible for inclusion in Wikipedia: Frontalot, funky49, Sucklord, Beefy, High-C, Ham-STAR, Optimus Rhyme and YTcracker. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.153.67.48 (talk • contribs) 12:59, 2 September 2006
 * Articles for the artist Beefy have been created and deleted at least eight times. Look here and here and here. It has been through AfD discussions twice; see Articles for deletion/Beefy and Articles for deletion/Beefy (artist). If this guy is finally notable enough, someone is going to have to do really great job on an article with lots of references, else it's sure to be deleted again. -- Satori Son 14:07, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
 * same thing with futuristic sex robotz - theyve had their article nuked a hundred times but theyve gotten a TON of press in print media as well as online - certain notability will probably debated with other artists because press has become somewhat widespread in this genre as of late, but FSR is definitely due for inclusion. Ytcracker 22:02, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup?
Does this article still need the cleanup tag? It's still got a lot of OR, but that's sort of inevitable when dealing with a fairly obscure DIY subgenre not really covered by many peer-reviewed journals. It is not, however, "ungrammatical, poorly formatted, confusing, etc." (as far as I can see), and thus doesn't seem to merit a cleanup tag. If someone wants to change the tag to reflect a more specific objection, that'd be helpful. Otherwise, if there's no debate, I'll remove the tag in a week or so. There's nothing uglier than an unmerited cleanup tag, don't you think? 69.140.12.199 02:35, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

 * You've got some good points, but if you wanna create an account, I wouldn't bother waiting a week. Create an account to get yourself a screen name (therefore making you both more accountable and more credible than a random IP), and go ahead and chuck the tag if there's no objection within a day or two. - Ugliness Man 16:12, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I've been editing Wikipedia for almost three years. I have my own (complicated) reasons for not wanting to log in. Doubtless I'll have to if the bizarre trend towards giving IP editors less and less power continues, but for now I'm quite happy without. I've never before had anyone be so unfamiliar with WP policy that they've reverted one of my edits based on my lack of an account. Thanks for the well-meaning advice, though. 69.140.12.199 19:48, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Baddd Spellah
He's been the power behind nerdcore's throne for years, he remixed both MC Frontalot and mc chris before Karl Olsen bragged about doing the same, his remix of "Ten Year Old" won him a track in his honor from chris, he currently provides the vast majority of Frontalot's beats (including most of the songs on the Nerdcore Rising album), and his latest collaboration with the Front won the CBC's Remix the Ring contest, earning him a cool grand and an on-air interview. There's never been a better time to write an article on the poor bastard! In my opinion, it should be the single biggest priority of any nerdcore-loving Wikipedians. I'd write it myself, but at this rate I'm afraid people will start suspecting I'm the only nerdcore-loving Wikipedian, so I'll give you guys a bit of time before I jump in on this long, long overdue article. But seriously, somebody's got to do it; that red link's a disgrace. A quick bit of looking about the internet reveals at least one interview that would be useful to anyone authoring a Baddd Spellah article. 69.140.12.199 03:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
 * i wholeheartedly agree - definitely a cornerstone of this genre. Ytcracker 21:03, 18 September 2006 (UTC)

Dr. Octagon
I have to wonder if Dr. Octagon can really be considered a part of the nerdcore "scene," as the article states. While one of his songs was on the compilation, as far as I know he's never communicated with any nerdcore artists and IIRC when a fan at a show asked him what he thought of nerdcore his response was something along the lines of "what's that?"

Not saying he's not a great artist, or that he's not nerdy, but I think in general if nerdcore is to be considered more a group of loosely affiliated artists who choose to use that label, he doesn't really belong in the list. --63.249.103.122 04:06, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. "Nerdcore" is a made-up, isolated subgenre and the "nerdcore artists" listed on this page are mostly being added by the artists themselves. The history of nerd rap is a perfectly valid topic and I thought this page would be the place for that, but apparently I was wrong. Talented, known MCs who could could legimitately be called nerd rap (Ultra Magnetic MCs, Dr. Octagon, Del, MF DOOM, MC Paul Barman, etc) shouldn't be on this page. Some of them have specifically indicated that they have and want nothing to do with "nerdcore". 65.96.170.247 22:07, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Jedi Mind Tricks
Jedi Mind Tricks, are they considered nerdcore?--ConradKilroy 18:32, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

No. See my comment above. As the article painstakingly points out, repeatedly, "Nerdcore" applies to MC Frontalot and people who are copying him. Legitimate MCs who happen to focus on non-standard themes are not "nerdcore". 65.96.170.247 22:09, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Well then you need to take mc chris off the list cause he does good music not a copy of frontalot

Nerdcore is not just people who copy mc frontalot, it anyone where most of there music is about nerdy thing and mc frontalot even said mc Chris was nerdcore in are interview with BBC —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cam852 (talk • contribs) 02:27, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Mc Lars
I think Mc Lars should be mentioned somewhere in the article as one of the more famous Nerdcore rappers. I mean he even invented the term "iGeneration" and has made songs with Mc Chris. User: unknown 11:12, 9 January 2007

Never mind, I just saw him in the list of most notable nerdcore artists User: unknown 11:16, 9 January 2007

basshunter
what about Basshunter???? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.111.165.100 (talk) 09:43, 23 January 2007 (UTC).
 * What does basshunter have to do with nerdcore, or even hip hop in general? Dj snyder 09:16, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Futuristic Sex Robotz
Seriously? Still no FSR? 71.231.13.14 05:05, 10 February 2007 (UTC)

Add FSR!
 * I like FSR as well. In fact, I just spent the past 2 hours trying desperately to locate enough reliable sources to prove that they are notable enough for an article. Unfortunately, I was unable to find any, and just because I feel that they should be included, that isn't a valid enough basis for inclusion. Without sources and notability, the article would just get deleted again. As I did with MC Router though, I will continue the search, and work on creation when the topic becomes notable by Wikipedia standards. Seriously though, Nerdcore for Life was on MTV Canada this past week, Nerdcore's getting mainstream enough, so sources covering FSR are bound to happen any month now..--Spazure 10:23, 19 July 2007 (UTC)

09/2019 Added FSR. I really fail to see why they are not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.168.223.178 (talk) 12:50, 24 April 2019 (UTC)

Nonsensical categorization
Can someone tell me why it is that MC Paul Barman, who claims NOT to be nerdcore, is listed as a nerdcore artist...while the Former Fat Boys, who HAVE called themselves nerdcore, are listed as non-nerdcore? I'm not quite following this here article. Dj snyder 09:21, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Unfotunately what someone wants to call themselves doesn't always influence how other people view them. Barman is a whiner and doesn't want to have the nerdcore label associated with him, but he still fits the category due to the subject matter of some of his lyrics.  I could put together an album of music that sounds like techno, and then say "I'm not techno, I'm polka", but that doesn't mean that Wikipedia would be obligated list it as a polka album.  Categorization is based on observable criteria, not the wishes of the subject in question. - Ugliness Man 10:11, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 * And yet I wouldn't be surprised if FFB's got just as many "nerdy" references, if not more, than someone like Jesse D. Why the hating man?  WHY Dj snyder 05:21, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Wu-Tang
i added wu tang clan due to their constant allusions to comics, old kung fu movies, philosophy, and mathematics & science.

"Nerd" versus "geek"
I've removed the following paragraph:
 * Although it is worthy of note that some consider the names of the genres to be confused; as the term "nerd" is usually assigned to those more technically minded, often obsessed with science or technology and often a lack of social skills. Whereas the term "geek" is more often attributed to people with a strong love of science fiction, comics, video games and things of that nature. Therefore the artists often considered in the "nerdcore" genre are more accurately geeks than those in the "geeksta rap" genre.

The problem I have here is that it assumes universal definitions of "nerd" and "geek" that simply don't exist. There is no real agreement inside the community as to which term means what. Speaking solely for myself, my intuition is almost exactly the opposite of this one. 68.48.168.53 14:25, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. The distinctions are arbitrary at best, to most they're synonomous terms. C.f., 'Geek Rock'. PrePressChris 00:23, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, it's same difference as far as I'm concerned. --Nerd42 (talk) 20:16, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

MF DOOM
How come I see no mention of MF DOOM anywhere

Doom is mentioned -- but referred to as Daniel Dumille. I question the extent to which he would qualify as nerdcore, but if he is, it would seem to make more sense to cite him as MF DOOM in the text (with maybe a parenthetical link to the king g and viktor vaughn articles)

text omitted from article
The following text was recently removed from the article:

The only things required to enter the nerdcore community are a microphone, a computer, and a webserver. No recognized nerdcore albums have ever been released on a major record label, and MP3s, not CDs, are the primary means of distribution.

The reasoning given is "See Pharrel Williams", by an anon. Apparently he meant in reference to the "no recognized nerdcore albums" remark, but what about the rest of it, should we leave it gone, or add it back? Spazure 04:43, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Actually, ignoring Pharrel Williams for the moment, the removed text is largely irrelevant, appears to be a flavour of OR, and really seems to me like it's an opinionated criticism rather than an encyclopedic observation. If anything similar is to be included at all, it needs to be significantly reworded, and should be explicitly a generalization rather than an absolute (in other words, make a comment on "the majority of" or "most" nerdcore artists, rather than making a sweeping statement about "all" of them). - Ugliness Man 08:17, 18 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree that if it goes back, it should likely be written. I honestly don't care either way -- just didn't want to see an anon remove something unless other editors agree on its removal. Spazure 08:26, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

"Notable nerdcore artists" section
Why do we have one? I'm not going to remove it outright, because I'd like to avoid an edit war, but I fail to see what it contributes to the article. The majority of edits to this article are people adding themselves to the list, the list itself already reads like a disclaimer right before the list, and we also don't seem to have a solid criteria for inclusion onto the list. Spazure 04:09, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

I totally agree. Who decides if a group is "notable"? Where is the notable non-notable threshold?? Seriously! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.173.235.14 (talk) 02:20, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

 * WHY is there no mention of SOCALLED? He is amazing! Or should there be a Yiddish Nerdcore section with Matisyahu thrown in? Or a Gay, Jewish Nerdcore section. I'm just asking...  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.170.73.92 (talk) 03:02, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

MC LARS Is Mc lars accualy considered nerdcore im a little confused on if he is or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by OMNI (talk • contribs) 16:53, 9 October 2007 (UTC)

I'm not a huge fan of "notable" sections but they seem pretty well established on Wikipedia so I'm fine with it being here. As for what constitutes being notable, the short answer is whether the artist in question has a Wikipedia article. If someone is notable enough to have an article then they can be included in the list. Obviously there are some artists who are notable enough to have pages that don't but in those cases we should create those articles first. Likewise some of these people may have pages who aren't really notable but that issue should be taken up on those pages. As to whether an act is actually "nerdcore" I think we usually go by how they identify themselves or if any reliable sources call them "nerdcore". As for MC Lars I've always assumed he is nerdcore but I don't really know that much about him. In any case that particular debate should be handled on his article page and then we would reference that here. SQGibbon (talk) 04:31, 12 June 2010 (UTC)

MC LARS
Is Mc lars nerdcore. He seems more like an alternative rapper to me. ALtough he did contribute to the rhyme torrents compilations.
 * I'll go with the group consensus on this one, as I'm somewhat on the fence, but leaning towards yes. His songs aren't ALL about geeky stuff, but a lot of it is, and he does record most (or all?) of his stuff on hiw own laptop.  There's definitely nerdy goodness there.   spazure  (contribs) (review) 06:07, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

Thanks I was Just wondering. It might Be accurate to call him the most sucessfull Nerdcore rapper of all time, I mean he has had wide distribution you can even find him in record stores where I live (Maine!) —Preceding unsigned comment added by OMNI (talk • contribs) 17:26, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

http://www.joost.com/161000a - On this episode of Frag (IPTV channel on Joost), nerdcore (or Nerd Core) is featured. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Funky49 (talk • contribs) 18:09, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

he aligns himself with the genre, also he is aligned lawful evil and his thac0 is incredible. Ytcracker (talk) 07:29, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

He also toured with Frontalot (or at least played with him a a few venues). This doesn't necessarily make him a nerdcore rapper, but he is at least a clear supporter.71.184.205.84 (talk) 07:44, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

Media coverage
The media coverage section should be integrated as in-line citations, moved over to the appropriate NcHH artist sub-page, moved to the EL section, or deleted. A dump of links is not appropriate and hot helpful. WLU (talk) 11:36, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Miranda, Jeff. "Refrain of the Nerds" The Boston Globe. November 4, 2007.
 * Scott, Toby. "Beware geeks bearing riffs." The Guardian June 17, 2002.
 * Andrews, Robert. "Rap Marketing Comes to Nerdcore." Wired June 23, 2005.
 * The Brian Lehrer Show. "(Not So) Hip-Hop." WNYC, New York. August 11, 2005. An audio interview with MC Frontalot (MP3 format)
 * Colgan, Jim. "Nerd Hip-Hop, Flowing Like Han Solo" NPR November 7, 2005.
 * Reed, Bryan. "Nerdcore Hip-Hop" The Daily Tarheel December 8, 2005.
 * Clendenin, Mike. "Geeksta Rappers Rhyme Tech Talk" EE Times February 13, 2006.
 * "Nerdcore Gangsta Hip-Hop" Cool.com.au February 27, 2006.
 * Thomasson, Roger. "Me So Nerdy" Wired September 2006.
 * Doctorow, Cory. Nerdcore for Life documentary - trailer BoingBoing December 11, 2006.
 * Jardin, Xeni. Nerdcore shows in Vegas, January 8-9 BoingBoing December 28, 2006.
 * Braiker, Brian. America's White Rapper Moment. MSNBC/Newsweek. Jan 2007.
 * Tanz, Jason. "Nerdcore and the Future of Music" Esquire. March 2007.
 * Carroll, Caitlan Marketplace - American Nerdcore
 * solipsistic NATION No.4: Nerdcore Podcast. Interviews and music from artists (MC Frontalot, Ultraklystron, High-C, YTCracker, funky49, Ham-STAR) from the emerging genre of Nerdcore.
 * solipsistic NATION No.31: L33T Podcast. Music from artists (Benjamin Bear, Old Scratch, Metamystiks Incorporated, Dr. Octagon, Myf, Super Dragon X, Futuristic Sex Robots, Nursehella,Beefy, MC Hawking, MC Frontalot, Rai, Ultraklystron, funky49 and redvoid, Baddd Spellah, YTcracker) from the genre of Nerdcore.

Rappy McRapperson
Should Rappy McRapperson be included in the "Notable Artists" section? Among his accomplishments:
 * He made the theme song for The Captain Underpants TV show
 * He produced the latest EP of Wing, who is an international singinging sensation with her own wikipedia article.
 * He has 4 albums on iTunes, as well as several tracks on compilation albums, plus Wing's album he produced.
 * He has appeared on several [radio shows http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qhb-S5nX-7Q] and played shows across the country, and is scheduled to play at Nerdapalooza 2010.

• He’s got a cock like a Burmese python, an arm like a damn rocket, and the brain of a fucking scientist. 🥵🥵

I think Rappy deserves AT LEAST a mention in the "Notable Artists" section of this article, more like his own article —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.38.238.57 (talk) 01:20, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

MC Barman
Included MC Barman in list of artists experimenting in nerdcore before it was a genre, didnt look like it needed a ref but if desired: NY Magazine quote "2000: Brown graduate MC Paul Barman’s debut EP, It’s Very Stimulating, gets called “the whitest hip-hop record ever made” by the Times. “Nerdcore” rappers like mc chris and MC Lars would follow in his footsteps." http://nymag.com/daily/entertainment/2009/04/these_are_heady_times_for.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.17.147.126 (talk) 16:26, 16 June 2010 (UTC)

MC Hawking
Wouldn't you say MC Hawking is more Geeksta Rap than Nerdcore, given how violent and misogynistic his material is? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.156.247.2 (talk) 16:43, 15 August 2012 (UTC)

Removal of non-associated acts and links
I removed a number of names from the "Notables" section. While Maja, Navi, and "Torrentz" might be artists associated with the genre, they aren't notable and their linked pages connected each to a wiki article that had nothing to do with said artist, just a similar name to their own.

As for Greydon Square, a simple look over his wiki page and news articles fail to connect him with anything in the nerdcore genre. I'd be interested to have something to the contrary be shown, but I won't be waiting with bated breath.

Amari42 (talk) 23:29, 22 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Along with this now are the removal of red links recently added and an artist not connected to the nerdcore genre (being nothing on his wikipage stating even a slight connection to nerdcore)--Amari42 (talk) 12:31, 16 April 2011 (UTC)

 * What if someone had the first websites, compilations, posse tracks, was in Wired, a documentary, numerous articles, and still gets deleted? Does that mean Wikipedia is just a fucked pile of garbage, waiting to be destroyed by a blockchain-based competitor? MC Rooter (talk) 06:00, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

 * If it can't be substantiated, then it is not to be included in Wikipedia. See WP:NOTTRUTH (note this is an essay not a policy).  If that artist in question can be substantiated as notable, then they can be included.  But the burden is on the editor adding the material. --Klaun (talk) 14:34, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

Origin of the term?
According to the article MC Frontalot coined the term "Nerdcore hip hop" and then links to the song lyrics. Unfortunately there's nothing there to indicate that this was the first recorded usage of the term or who came up with it. Does anyone have a better source to establish this point? Otherwise it should probably be rewritten to say something like "The earliest recorded usage of the term was from MC Frontalot's song 'Nerdcore Hiphop'". SQGibbon (talk) 20:46, 6 November 2010 (UTC)

 * I agree with you. There isn't any real way to say Frontalot made the term, but he definitely made the term commonplace (as much as you can expect it to be). Amari42 (talk) 22:44, 10 November 2010 (UTC)

MC Frontalot heavy article
Does MC frontalot deserve a mention in every paragraph of this article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.233.95.126 (talk) 17:07, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
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Definition in Japan
It should be mentioned, that the definition of "Nerdcore" is quite countryspecific. Because in Japan (there ナードコア) it's interpreted as a genre of Hardcore-Techno/Gabba/Rotterdam and picks up the current Nerd-Topics and/or Intros of Anime/Games/Popculture/etc. and e.g. remixes them. See also the Definition at Niconico: https://dic.nicovideo.jp/a/%E3%83%8A%E3%83%BC%E3%83%89%E3%82%B3%E3%82%A2

title: Talk:Nerdcore


text:
Talk:U.S. Route 11

Historic termini
Why until 1929, U.S. 11 ended just south of Picayune, Mississippi at the Pearl River border with Louisiana? --Patricknoddy 14:24, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)User:Patricknoddy User talk:Patricknoddy 10:21 July 26, 2004 (EDT)

Article short on history
The article lacks history - US 11 was constructed or designated following earlier routes, often the main streets which towns had developed around. These early routes relate to early colonial and federal history and settlement patterns, not as much to later ideas about highway construction. Town and state settlement history probably is the place for answers about why did it go here or there? Many of the routes would go back to Native American trails. Every state section should reflect the history of that area. In addition, Interstate 81 was constructed long AFTER US 11 was designated, so it may parallel US 11, but US 11 came first. To describe the highway as paralleling Interstate 81 gives the wrong idea of timing, and to simply describe how it proceeds from Louisiana to New York ignores the history of the way the United States developed.--Parkwells (talk) 15:35, 6 April 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
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Concurrency with US 190?
According to the article: "After the intersection with Erlanger Road, Route 11 intersects with U.S. Route 190 (Fremaux Avenue), which becomes concurrent along Front Street. Routes 11 and 190 continue to the north, intersecting with many locally maintained roads in Slidell. At the intersection with Gause Boulevard and Gause Boulevard West, Route 190 turns to the west."

Yet according to Google maps, mainline 190 uses Gause Blvd. east of Front, while Business 190 comes in on Fremaux, which intersects (and ends) at Front/US 11. Presumably, the Business Route from there is concurrent with US 11 northeast to Gause, where Business 190 then ends. Which is correct—the article or the map? 69.42.17.116 (talk) 15:51, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:U.S. Route 11


text:
Myopsida

Myopsida is one of the four orders of squid. It consists of two families: the monotypic Australiteuthis and the diverse and commercially important Loliginidae (~50 species). Some taxonomists classify this taxon as a suborder of the order Teuthida, in which case it is known as Myopsina. This reclassification is due to Myopsina and Oegopsina not being demonstrated to form a clade.

A number of morphological features distinguish members of Myopsida from those of its sister group, Oegopsida. Some of the most obvious differences are found in the structure of the eyes: those of myopsid squids lack a secondary eyelid and are instead covered by a transparent corneal membrane, the opening of which is reduced to a microscopic anterior pore in most species. The arms and tentacles are ornamented with simple suckers (hooks are never present), with additional suckers usually borne on the buccal lappets. The carpal ("wrist") portion of the tentacular club lacks a locking apparatus, and a tentacle pocket is present on the head. The funnel has no lateral adductor muscles. An internalised shell is present in the form of a well-developed gladius, which is located dorsally within the mantle and extends for almost its entire length. In contrast to oegopsids, females possess accessory nidamental glands in addition to the main nidamental glands. They however lack a right oviduct.

Myopsids are found in coastal waters worldwide. They are demersal, generally feeding on or near the bottom. In turn, they are considered prey items by virtually all marine predators, including birds.

Adult sizes range from the dwarf Australiteuthis and Pickfordiateuthis, whose males mature at less than 2 cm in mantle length (ML), to the largest species Loligo forbesii, which has been measured to 93.7 cm ML. The earliest fossils of this group are Loligo statoliths from the early Eocene of North America. In addition, a pyritized Loligo fossil is known from the Oligocene of Russia, marking the earliest true squid known from a complete body fossil.

title: Myopsida


text:
Luxury

Luxury may refer to:

 * Luxury goods, an economic good or service for which demand increases more than proportionally as income rises
 * Luxury tax, a tax on products not considered essential, such as expensive cars
 * Luxury tax (sports), a surcharge put on the aggregate payroll of a sports team to the extent to which it exceeds a predetermined guideline level set by the league
 * Luxury car, an expensive automobiles
 * Luxury train, an expensive tourist trains
 * Luxury yacht, an expensive privately owned, professionally crewed yacht
 * Luxury apartment, a type of property that is intended to provide its occupant with higher-than-average levels of comfort, quality and convenience
 * Luxury hotel, a high-quality amenities, full-service accommodations and the highest level of personalized services
 * Luxury resort, an exclusive vacation facilities
 * Luxury box, term for a special seating section in arenas, stadiums and other sports venues
 * Luxury magazine, magazines devoted to fine craft and luxury goods

Music

 * Luxury (Georgia band), a rock band from Toccoa, Georgia
 * Luxury (Iowa band), a power pop rock music band from Des Moines, Iowa
 * Luxury (Fantastic Plastic Machine album), 1998
 * Luxury (The Nein album), 2007
 * "Luxury", a song by Azealia Banks off the album Broke with Expensive Taste
 * "Luxury", a song by The Rolling Stones off the album It's Only Rock 'n Roll

title: Luxury