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Jennifer Charles

Jennifer Asher Charles (born Zipken; November 15, 1968) is an American singer and songwriter. Along with Oren Bloedow, she co-founded the New York band Elysian Fields. Her work is known for its emotional intensity, with her writing exploring nature, love, loss, death, myth, and identity, often with philosophical and literary influences. She has a contralto voice.

Early life
Jennifer was the first born child of Peter Charles (né Zipken) and Jeri Charles (née Valentine). She has a younger brother, Joshua. When Jennifer was an infant, her father had her birth name (and that of the whole family) changed from Zipken to Charles, which had been his professional name for years on the radio as a disc jockey, and which he had decided to change legally once his own father died. Charles is of Russian Jewish and Irish descent, and grew up in a mostly secular Jewish household. Her parents separated when she was four, and Jennifer and her brother were raised by their mother, seeing her father every two weeks. She grew up in houses filled with music, because her mother had been a classical music programmer at WMAL-FM, and because her father had been a late night jazz DJ at WAVZ out of New Haven, CT. Her mother also used to be a torch singer in Washington clubs, so Jennifer also learned early on the songs of Édith Piaf, Ruth Etting, Marlene Dietrich, Billie Holiday, and Judy Garland. And from her grandmother, she absorbed most of the Tin Pan Alley and blues songs of the 1920s and 1930s. The music of popular AM radio at the time of her childhood was multiform, and Jennifer fell asleep with a transistor radio most nights.

The homes Jennifer grew up in with her mother in Washington, D.C. were unconventional, and she was exposed to many cultures as her mother and her mother's good friend (another single mother) formed something of a group house, taking in writers and filmmakers (Stephen Jimenez and Henry Jaglom among them), and a French chef as boarders. As young children, she and her brothers would travel door to door, performing a kind of children's vaudeville act, singing Tin Pan Alley songs and tap dancing. Jennifer was a shy girl, so when she started doing children's theater at age 10, her stage debut at Trinity Theater was that of a cat who had no speaking lines but was a mime and dancer who was onstage the length of the play. It was an original role that the director let Jennifer create as she felt she did not fit into any of the written parts. She was also writing herself, and published her first poem, called "Riddle-Song Of The Sun," that same year. At age 11, she started a newspaper with her best friend called The Pre-Teen Times where they sold subscriptions that came out quarterly. At age 12, she became passionate about the music of South Asia after her mother returned from a journey across India and Nepal with a bag full of cassettes for her, with Jagjit and Chitra Singh's The Gold Disc being her favorite. She took flamenco lessons as a young teen, and continued to do children's theater and community theater. She studied acting for a summer at Catholic University, and had principal roles in productions at Little Theatre of Alexandria, Olney Theatre Center, and Folger Shakespeare Theatre. She attended the Washington International School, where she studied Spanish and Latin, then the Edmund Burke School, a college prep school she left after she had begun working in professional theatre at Studio Theatre and Source Theatre, and the school could not accommodate her rehearsal schedule. For her last two years of high school, Jennifer attended Duke Ellington School of the Arts, where she was a theater major. An advanced academic program also landed her part-time at George Washington University, where she studied writing and anthropology.

Jennifer's youth in the melting pot of Washington, D.C. was instrumental in her music influence and taste. Her mother had season tickets to the National Symphony Orchestra, which they attended on Friday nights, and her father would take her to hear live jazz at places like Blues Alley, One Step Down, and Charlie's Georgetown, where she saw the likes of Anita O'Day, Mel Tormé, Dizzy Gillespie, Ahmad Jamal, Oscar Peterson, George Shearing, and Jamaican jazz pianist Monty Alexander. In her teens, Jennifer would often travel to New York and London, both with friends and on her own. She was turned on to the different sounds in each city - The Lounge Lizards, Diamanda Galas, Lydia Lunch, Blondie, and The Velvet Underground in New York; and The Specials, Gang of Four, Siouxsie, The Slits, The Buzzcocks, The Birthday Party, Cocteau Twins, and The Fall in the UK. But she was also steeped in the contemporary scenes of her own hometown, dancing at Tracks, Poseurs, and Badlands, and frequenting live music venues like D.C. Space, 9:30 Club, Fort Reno Park, and Cafe Lautrec to see punk bands like Bad Brains, Beefeater, and Rites of Spring. She also grew up going to go-go concerts, seeing Chuck Brown, Trouble Funk, Junk Yard Band, E.U., and Rare Essence, and went to hear Ethiopian music in the clubs and restaurants of DC's Adams Morgan neighborhood. As a junior in high school, Jennifer moved out on her own and supported herself with theater work and various odd jobs, including as an artist model at the Corcoran School of the Arts and as a singing waitress in a piano bar called The Top Hat Club.

Career
In 1987, she moved to New York to continue her theatre and academic studies, receiving her Bachelor of Fine Arts from NYU's Tisch school in just three years. Upon graduating she appeared in various off-broadway theater productions, had a stint singing in a dive piano bar and curated a performance/poetry series at the original Knitting Factory.

Elysian Fields was founded in 1995 and have released eleven full-length records (including one produced by Steve Albini that was shelved). They have also contributed to many compilation albums, including the first song on John Zorn's Serge Gainsbourg tribute album. This song, their rendition of "Les Amours Perdues", also appeared in Lea Pool's film Emporte Moi.

Besides Elysian Fields, Charles has other projects. She and Bloedow recorded La Mar Enfortuna for Zorn's Tzadik label, featuring renditions of Sephardic and Ladino songs. She has studied classical Indian singing with teacher Gulamji.

In late 2007, she and Bloedow put out a second Tzadik full-length, under the band name La Mar Enfortuna, called "Conviviencia". Charles sings in five languages on the record, including Ladino, Spanish, Aramaic, Arabic, and Greek.

Charles also makes up a quarter of the band Lovage, along with Dan the Automator, Mike Patton and Kid Koala. The band recorded its debut album titled Music to Make Love to Your Old Lady By in 2001. Charles co-wrote and sang most of the material on the album. She has also worked with bands like Firewater, turning in performances on "The Circus" and "Mr. Cardiac" from 1996's Get Off the Cross, We Need the Wood for the Fire, as well as Xian Hawkin's "Sybarite", the Foetus record, Love, as well as working with Matt Johnson of The The, and on several of John Zorn's records.

Charles recorded in French with the French composer Jean-Louis Murat for the album A bird on a poire in 2004, which was nominated for a Victoires de la Musique award in the category Best Pop or Rock Album.

She had a guest spot on ex-Nine Inch Nails drummer Chris Vrenna's solo project Tweaker. She sang and co-composed the track "Crude Sunlight", which appeared on the 2004 album 2 a.m. Wakeup Call. Charles co-composed music with Johnny Klimek and Reinhold Heil (Run Lola Run) for the film Tangled. Elysian Fields' version of Bob Dylan's "Tangled up in Blue" can be heard in the film's credits.

She produced the latest Oren Bloedow solo record She Goes With me to a Blossom World, which came out in 2008.

Charles was back on stage in 2008 in the Off Broadway production "Lightning at Our Feet", inspired by poet Emily Dickinson, under the direction of Obie winner Bob McGrath, with film maker Bill Morrison and composer Michael Gordon, which was part of the Next Wave festival at Brooklyn Academy of Music in December 2008, where she sang and acted, channeling the iconic 19th century poet.

Discography

 * 2023: Bohemian Flesh – s/t (Ojet, US) writer
 * 2023: Wax Tailor – "Shaman In Your Arms" (in album "Fishing For Accidents", Lab'oratoire, FR) writer, vocalist
 * 2022: Elysian Fields – Once Beautiful Twice Removed (Ojet, US) writer, vocalist
 * 2022: DJ Criminal – "Mountain Tops" feat. Slug, Blueprint and Jennifer Charles (The Smuggler's Candle, US) writer, vocalist
 * 2020: Parthenope – Introducing... Parthenope (Ojet, US) writer, vocalist
 * 2020: Elysian Fields – Transience Of Life (Microcultures, France; Ojet, US) writer, vocalist
 * 2020: Various Artists – Angelheaded Hipster: The Songs of Marc Bolan & T. Rex (BMG, US) vocalist
 * 2020: Bebel Gilberto – Agora (Pias America) writer, bgvs
 * 2020: Elysian Fields – "When We Used To" (Ojet, US) writer, vocalist
 * 2020: Elysian Fields – "Shelter In Place" (Ojet, US) writer, vocalist
 * 2019: Elysian Fields – "Song For A Nun" b/w "Ball Drive" 7-inch (Ojet, US) writer, vocalist
 * 2018: Various Artists – Vanity Of Vanities - A Tribute To Connie Converse (Tzadik, US) vocalist
 * 2018: Elysian Fields – Pink Air (Microcultures, FR; Ojet, US) writer, vocalist
 * 2017: Du Yun, Royce Vavrek – Angel's Bone (VIA Records, US) vocalist
 * 2017: The The – Radio Cinéola Trilogy (Lazarus, UK) vocalist
 * 2017: Nathaniel Merriweather – "Summer Lovin'" (Amazon Music, US) writer, vocalist
 * 2016: Elysian Fields – Ghosts of No (Vicious Circle, France; Ojet, US) writer, vocalist
 * 2016: Tredici Bacci – Amore Per Tutti (NNA Tapes) writer, vocalist
 * 2014: Elysian Fields – For House Cats and Sea Fans (Vicious Circle, France; Diluvian/Ojet, US) writer, vocalist
 * 2012: Wax Tailor – "Heart Stop" (Le Plan, Lab'oratoire, FR) vocalist
 * 2011: Elysian Fields – Last Night on Earth (Vicious Circle Records, FR; Ojet, US) writer, vocalist
 * 2009: Elysian Fields – The Afterlife (Diluvian/Vicious Circle) writer, vocalist, rebab
 * 2008: The Heavy Circles – S/T (Dynamite Child) bgvs
 * 2008: Oren Bloedow – She Goes With Me to a Blossom World (Diluvian) producer, bgvs, keyboards
 * 2007: La Mar Enfortuna – Convivencia (Tzadik) voc, writer
 * 2007: Foetus – Vein (Birdman) vocalist
 * 2006: Ben Perowsky's Moodswing Orchestra – S/T (El Destructo) writer, vocalist
 * 2006: Elysian Fields – Bum Raps And Love Taps (Diluvian/Naive) writer, vocalist, keyboards
 * 2005: Foetus – Love (Birdman Records) vocalist
 * 2004: Jean-Louis Murat – A Bird on a Poire (Labels) vocalist
 * 2004: Elysian Fields – Dreams That Breathe Your Name (Diluvian) writer, vocalist, farfisa
 * 2004: Tweaker – 2 AM Wake-Up Call (IMUSIC) writer, vocalist
 * 2003: Ben Perowsky – Camp Songs (Tzadik) vocalist
 * 2003: Sasha Argov – Great Jewish Music (Tzadik) vocalist
 * 2003: Foetus – A Tribute to the Sisters of Mercy (EFA) vocalist, writer
 * 2002: Frank London – Scientist at Work (Tzadik) vocalist
 * 2002: John Zorn – Film Works XII – Three Documentaries (Tzadik) vocalist
 * 2002: Sybarite – Scene of the Crime (4AD) writer, vocalist
 * 2002: John Zorn – IAO Music in Sacred Light (Tzadik) vocalist
 * 2001: illy B Eats – Drop the Needle (Amulet) writer, vocalist
 * 2001: Zoar – Clouds Without Water (vocalist)
 * 2001: Lovage – Music to Make Love to Your Old Lady By (75 Ark) writer, vocalist
 * 2001: Firewater – Psychopharmachology (Jetset) vocalist
 * 2001: Oren Bloedow and Jennifer Charles – La Mar Enfortuna (Tzadik) vocalist, bells, wurli, writer
 * 2000: Elysian Fields – Queen of the Meadow (Jetset) writer, vocalist, mini moog, guitar, wurli
 * 1999: Liminal (unreleased) writer, vocalist
 * 1999: What's the Word Volume 1 – Various Artists (Deezal) writer, vocalist, piano
 * 1999: DJ Logic – Project Logic (Ropeadope) writer, vocalist
 * 1999: Jean Louis Murat – Mustango (Labels) vocalist
 * 1998: Great Jewish Music: Marc Bolan – Various Artists (Tzadik) vocalist
 * 1998: Elysian Fields – Clinical Trial (Radioactive - unreleased) writer, vocalist
 * 1998: Oren Bloedow – The Luckiest Boy in the World, Knitting Factory Works (bgv)
 * 1997: Elysian Fields Meets DJ Cam (Radioactive) writer, vocalist
 * 1997: Great Jewish Music: Serge Gainsbourg Various Artists (Tzadik) vocalist
 * 1997: Life in a Blender – Two Legs Bad (Fang) phoned in whispers
 * 1997: Live – Secret Samadhi (Radioactive) bgvs
 * 1996: Jennifer and Kenny Siegel Sessions (unreleased) vocalist
 * 1996: Firewater - Get Off The Cross ... We Need The Wood for the Fire (Jetset) vocalist
 * 1996: Elysian Fields – Bleed Your Cedar (Radioactive) writer, vocalist, rhythm king, percussion
 * 1996: Elysian Fields – Elysian Fields EP (Radioactive) writer, vocalist
 * 1992: Oren Bloedow – S/T (Knitting Factory Works) bgvs
 * 1991: Mr Bungle - Mr Bungle (Warner Bros) bgvs

title: Jennifer Charles


text:
Talk:Malakia

Revisionism in the Church
Guess what word is missing from New Bibles:

NEW BIBLES Nestle-Aland Greek-English New Testament 26th edition l979 (Used as textbook in Roman Catholic Seminaries.)

1 Cor 6:9 “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the immoral, not idolaters, not adulterers, not sexual perverts, …will inherit the kingdom of God.”

The New American Bible with Nihil Obstat Stephen J. Hartdegen, O.F.M.,S.S.L. Christian P. Ceroke, O. Carm., S.T.D. Imprimatur: Patrick Cardinal O’Boyle, D.D. Archbishop of Washington l987

1 Cor 6:9 “Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes not practicing homosexuals…will inherit the kingdom of heaven.”

The Orthodox Study Bible with Joseph Allen, Th. D.; Jack Norman Sparks, PH. D.; Theodore Stylianopoulos, Th. D.; Archbishop IAKOVOS, Metropolitan THEODOSIUS. 1993

1 Cor 6:9 “Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, not idolaters, not adulterers, not homosexuals, nor sodomites, will inherit the kingdom of God.

OLD BIBLES The New American Catholic Edition The Holy Bible Imprimatur Francis Cardinal Spellman l958

1 Cor 6:9 “Or do you not know that the unjust will not possess the kingdom of God? Do not err; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor the effeminate, nor sodomites,…will possess the kingdom of God.”

The King James Bible

1 Cor 6.9 “Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, not idolaters, not adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind…shall inherit the kingdom of God.

This is an importance of an Encyclopaedia. So, information does not get lost. Nestle Aland is an prestigious work. It has an authority. It is used in many seminaries. Yet, where the Greek has five activities, the English only reads four.

Words are important. Lose the Word, one naturally loses the concept. It is important that this word disappears from modern culture. WHEELER 14:15, 12 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * "Of the dispositions described above, the deliberate avoidance of pain is rather a kind of SOFTNESS (MALAKOS); the deliberate pursuit of pleasure is profligacy in the strict sense." Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle, pg 415.

 * "One who is deficient in resistance to pains that most men withstand with success, is soft (MALAKOS) or luxurious (for Luxury is a kind of Softness (MALAKIA); such a man lets his cloak trail on the ground to escape the fatigue and trouble of lifting it, or feigns sickness, not seeing that to counterfeit misery is to be miserable." Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle, pg 415

 * "People too fond of amusement are thought to be profligate, but realy they are SOFT (MALAKOS); for amusement is rest, and therefore a slackening of effort, and addiction to amusement is a form of excessive slackness" Nicomachean Ethics, Aristotle, pg 417.

Socrates and Plato trans by Paul Shorey

 * "And they may be excellent for other purposes, but we are in fear for our guardians lest the habit for such thrills make them more sensitive and SOFT (MALAKOTEROI) than we would have them." The Republic, Plato, Loeb, pg 207.
 * This is the note Mr. Paul Shorey attaches to this: "With malakoteroi the image passes into that of softened metal; cv. 411 B, Laws 666 B-C, 671 B.

 * "In respect of savagery and hardness or, on the other hand, of softness (MALAKIAS) and gentleness". Republic, Plato, Loeb, pg 289

 * "This if relaxed too far would be softer (malakoteron) than is desirable...". Republic, Plato, Loeb, pg 289

 * "Now when a man abandons himself to music to play upon him and pour into his soul as it were through the funnel of his ears those sweet, soft (MALAKAS), and dirge-like airs of which we were just now speaking..." Republic, Plato, Loeb, pg 291.

 * The Great Classicist M. A. JOWETT translates this word malakos EFFEMINATE.

CATAMITE a, paiderastis Plato; to be a catamite, paiderasteo, Plato
 * NOWHERE DOES THE WORD MALAKOS APPEAR. Pg 87 if you dare to look

Effeminacy, anandria; anandrea; MALAKIA; MALTHAKIA;
 * PG 188

Effete is a totally differenct Greek Word, arimenos
 * pg 188.WHEELER 18:58, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

WHEELER, whatever else we may say about the word (whether malakos or effeminacy), you can't continue to deny that it has anything to do with "gender roles". The word "effeminate" in English derives its origin from the Latin femina -- obviously, to describe a man as being "womanly" is to state that something about him is more in accord with the gender roles fulfilled by women than those fulfilled by men. You insist that malakos is used to describe men who are "unmanly" -- I can't disagree. But surely you must admit that being "unmanly" means that a man is not fulfilling the gender role normally fulfilled by men. Even if it does not mean "womanly", it must be very carefully associated with classical Greek ideas and ideals of manhood. You can't continue to assert that it has nothing to do with gender roles. Jwrosenzweig 16:28, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Deconstructionism
The above is an example of what follows: Pick up the book by Gene Veith, Modern Fascism, Liquidating the Judeo-Christian Worldview. He has a subchapter on *Deconstruction* It is preceeded by a chapter on *Relativism*. "...deconstruction begins with the existentialist dictum that there is no transcendent meaning, that meaning is a human construction. Deconstructionists go on to show that the way meaning is constructed is through language. Who is the originator of this. Paul de Man. Henri De Man was is uncle. "Henri was mentioned in the same breath as Heidegger as major thinkers for the new fascist order" Veith continues:"...the major theorist of deconstruction is not De Man but Jacques Derrida, a Jew. "This Jewish approach is far different from Hellenic thought, which has dominated Western philosophy with its attempt to go beyond language to posit rational systems and idealized truths. Herbert Schneidau relates Derrida's deconstruction to the radical iconoclasm of the Biblical tradition. G. Douglas Atkins, supporting both Handleman and Schneidau, employs Thorleif Boman's Hebrew Thought Compared to Greek to place Derrida in the Hebraic traditon."pg 141.WHEELER 00:01, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * "The act of writing, the simple assertion of meaning, becomes not only a "power play", but an act of "arbitrary power". pp 135-139
 * "Deconstruction encourages this kind of moral detachment. It also tends to minimize the past. In a discussion of Nietzsche, De Man wrote that "the bases for historical knowledge are not empirical facts but written texts, even if these texts masquerade in the guise of wars or revolutions." Just as literary texts have no determinate meaining in themselves and are ultimately unknowable, the same must be true of texts such as wars and revolutions." pg 140.

We have two different thought patterns here. It is not about gender roles. It is about the faults of the soul. If you read carefully, Aristotle and St. Thomas Aquinas you will find out that it is related to being lazy, luxury and entertainment. Either gender participates in this. It is not about gender roles or homosexuality or doing the laundry, or cooking or lipstick, or dresses or sexual position or penetration at all.WHEELER 00:01, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I am not talking about deconstruction, nor am I using that technique. Please focus on what I am saying.  I am not talking about laundry or penetration or sexual positions.  I never have.  All that I am saying is the following simple statement. If you are talking about effeminacy or unmanly behavior, by definition, you are talking about a gender role.  Perhaps not what modern society believes gender roles to be, perhaps a very vague gender role, but a gender role all the same.  This is irrefutable, unless you propose to ignore the origins of the words "effeminacy" and "unmanly". Jwrosenzweig 16:15, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * English is a terrible language. It is not comparable to Greek.  Greek is a very scientific language.  It has deeper varied meanings to their words.  English is a late language and not a pure one.  Just because the English strove coined the term effeminacy for several things does not make it a technical language nor an exact translation of the word malakos.  Virtue is not a gender role.
 * Werner Jaeger writes, "The qualities which usually came under the name aretai, "excellences" or "virtues", in the Greek polis—courage, prudence, justice, piety—are excellences of the soul just as health, strength, and beauty are excellences of the body. That is, they are the appropriate powers of particular parts of the soul or their co-operation cultivated to the highest pitch of which man's nature is capable." Paideia, Vol II, pg 44.
 * The origin of the word is the Greek word malakos. Their usage comes from the Bible and then the Latin Bible and Plato's writings.  The Victorian English concept is the Greek classical concept.WHEELER 15:01, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I know the etymology of malakia, and I agree with JWR that it has most definitely a connotation of sexual behaviour in Classical Greek (not to mention Modern Greek :o) — take for example Pseudo-Lucian's Lucius or the Ass (Λουκιος η Ονος), where the poor ass has to serve a bunch of malakes who are clearly male prostitutes. dab (ᛏ) 12:42, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

btw, I don't understand what you mean by "The origin of the word is the Greek word malakos." at all. As for "English is a late language", well, so is Greek. Why, half of the PIE consonants have evaporated, or have merged. Semivowels - lost, several times over; Labiovelars - lost during the Greek Dark Ages. PIE prevocalic s - lost, before the Greeks even reached Greece. Voiced aspirates - lost. The language is a fair ruin, and by no means more pure than say Old Norse or Sanskrit. Modern English is, of course, again 2000 years later, and should be compared to Modern Greek, which hasn't exactly preserved its ancient glory either, although I suppose it's a marvel it is still spoken at all, after all the Slavic and Turkic migration that took place. dab (ᛏ) 12:50, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

The linguistic side
I'm fixing up some linguistic things: giving the Greek with its classical accents, making sure the transcriptions reflect ancient and not modern Greek, etc. BTW, ἀνδρόγυνον is a Byzantine word for "marriage" (joining man and woman); the classical word for an effeminate man or androgynous person was ἀνδρόγυνος. --Angr/comhrá 08:37, 25 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Unsuitable for Wikipedia
This article makes very POV assertions about a concept which is quite difficult to prove. Certainly, false claims are made: "[ἀνανδρία] is always applied to fully heterosexual men". This is clearly rubbish. Plato 'Crito' 45e2: Crito uses it of Socrates (et al), and Socrates, like most Greeks was by no means "fully heterosexual". The conclusions drawn border on original research; the introduction is a mishmash of etymologies, conveniently ignoring the evidence from the scanned dictionary entries that connect effeminacy with like θηλύνομαι. The words cited are fairly rare in any case (under 300 instances of μαλ(θ)ακος in all of classical literature, inlcuding references to objects and so forth). The article belongs either in a classics-related periodical - abd even then only after serious revision. --Nema Fakei 01:29, 2 November 2005 (UTC)
 * It amazes me how old meanings of words are now "original" and "new". This article preserves the old meaning of the word and its context.  I wish you would leave it alone. There is a story that Socrates refused sex from a male.  For you to intimate that he was homosexual is pure conjecture on your part.  WHEELER 21:07, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Anyone can be heterosexual and still refuse sex from someone of the opposite gender. That Socrates once refused does not mean he was not bisexual. Take, for example, Socrates' advances towards Alcibiades. I am not sure what you mean when you say "It amazes me how old meanings of words are now "original" and "new"."
 * Hm. I've taken a look at the bibliography, and there seems to be no secondary material whatsoever on the classical usage - just dictionaries and texts. There's nothing wrong with that per se, but it clearly indicates that this is purely original research. I'm not suggesting that all of ideas the article presents are wrong or even new, but perhaps if you could cite some of the more sweeping or controversial claims. You've obviously put in a lot of work, and I'd prefer not to gut the article of POV/OR statements unless necessary.
 * Additionally, the dictionary entries would be much better typed: such big pictures are bad for dialup users, though that's low priority.
 * --Nema Fakei 22:35, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

Why is the following sentence included in the "Classical definition of Effeminacy"?

Without conetation it's to waste time.. because there is the real thing and there is Malakies

I can't parse the meaning of what's being said and I suspect it's just a goofball addition to this wiki. "Conetation" appears to be a misspelled "connotation" and the grammar is very poor...

Malakia does not mean effeminacy
This article should not have “(effeminacy)” in the title, as this is by no means the most accepted translation.

I was recently studying the Bible passage in 1 Corinthians 6, and I looked up the word “malakos” (including several articles about the word, and several Greek references). None of the sources I found translated malakia as “effeminacy” — the overwhelming consensus seemed to be that the word meant: spinelessness. (Without moral force, strength, resolution, or courage. Feeble, nerveless, credulous, weak, cowardly, spiritless.)

Whether these sources are correct or not, the fact remains that “effeminacy” is not widespread, and certainly there is more than one common translation out there — which should at least be acknowledged by the article.

This article, therefore, has no right to present just one translation as being authoratitive and definitive (by using that translation in the page title). Doing so requires, at very least, justification as to why the lesser used translation has been nominated, and the mainstream one rejected.

Grand Dizzy (talk) 22:32, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

Maliaka
Maybe would be useful to add to this article that Bulgarians use often name "Maliaka" for Greeks. Actually Greek very often use this word for them self. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nix1129 (talk • contribs) 10:55, 8 December 2012 (UTC)

Molluscs
What reliable source states that in Greco-Roman mythology molluscs symbolize femininity? Cowries look like a vulva and so the Latin word concha, which applied to some shellfish was also used of the vulva. But that is not mythology. The source given for the origin of Aphrodite/Venus does not state that in Greco-Roman mythology molluscs symbolize femininity. So what source does state it? Please read WP:SYNTH. Esoglou (talk) 09:43, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

The claim about Greco-Roman mythology has now been removed. The revised text quotes two sources. One states that the scallop shell is associated with the female genitalia and with Aphrodite/Venus. The other states two things: that marine invertebrates are associated with female genitalia; and that in Latin the word concha (a bivalve such as a mussel or an oyster) was applied also to a vulva. You need a series of links to associate these statements with the Greek word malakia, which perhaps makes them off-topic in an article on that Greek word. Esoglou (talk) 15:04, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

Relevance of viscerotonia
The St Petersburg editor wrote on my talk page: "Formulate your arguments on the talk page instead of slapping Relevance tags without any explanation." I presume s/he has not yet learned that it is for the editor who wants to insert something in Wikipedia to provide justification for its insertion. To satisfy her/his request for a formulation, it is enough to ask what has viscerotonia got to do with the Greek word μαλακία (malakia) that the article is about? Viscerotonia may be related to softness, but that is a different article. What direct relation does it have with μαλακία? Esoglou (talk) 08:14, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Viscerotonia is not softness in all senses. It is psychosomatic softness and as such is synonymous with malacia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.122.9.6 (talk) 10:48, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * "Viscerotonia", you say, is a form of "softness". That is no explanation of why it should be dealt with in an article on the Greek word μαλακία.  Esoglou (talk) 16:53, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * This is an encyclopedia, not a dictionary. Words are used to convey notions. This is an article about the notion of psychosomatic softness, and NOT an article on the Greek word μαλακία. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.122.12.221 (talk • contribs)
 * This article is on the Greek word μαλακία. If you want an article on psychosomatic softness, write it.  Esoglou (talk) 18:04, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Relevance of the English word "malacia"
Information on the English word "malacia" has been deleted with an edit summary: "Deleted irrelevant edits". "Malacia" is the Latinized form of the Greek word μαλακία. Surely that English form of the same word, used in medical contexts with the same meaning that the Greek word has is relevant in an article on μαλακία? Esoglou (talk) 08:14, 4 May 2014 (UTC)

Radical alteration of the article
Can you redirect the article from Malakia to Malacia? The English word for effeminacy has come from Latin and is "malacia", not "malakia":, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.122.9.6 (talk) 08:58, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The article is not about the Latin word malacia. Nor is the article in this English Wikipedia about malacia, which in English has a narrow medical meaning, with the result that in this article the English word "malacia" deserves only a passing mention without going into detail.  Even if you were to maintain that the English word, not just the Latin word, means effeminacy, that is still not what the article is about.  What the article is about is the Greek word μαλακία, which according to Wikipedia indications μαλακία is to be transliterated as malakia, not as malacia.  You should write an article on something else, if you want an article on it, instead of trying to hijack this one.  The one that you sometimes seem to be aiming at is on effeminacy in general, since you are piling in stuff that not only is not about μαλακία, but is not even about Latin malacia or the English medical term "malacia".  Take your reference to Caesar's De Bello Gallico, which used none of those words.  There already is an article on effeminacy.  Your disquisitions on Buddhism are also confusing.
 * There is a practical rule in Wikipedia referred to as WP:BRD. Read it.  You have been bold.  Excessively so.  You have won consensus from no other editor.  Your excessively bold work must therefore be deleted and subjected to discussion before being restored.   Esoglou (talk) 16:53, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * In English, both "malacia" and "malakia" have been used in all contexts for centuries:  But the variant "malacia" eventually won the competition. Presently, English dictionaries have "malacia" but do not mention "malakia". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.122.12.221 (talk) 17:34, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Except, like Esoglou's already explained, this article isn't about the English word. — lfdder 17:57, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The Saint Petersburg editor is of course free to start an article on the English word. Or on the Latin word as the opening that editor is trying to impose suggests.  Or on any other of the jumble of themes.  Esoglou (talk) 18:00, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * This is an encyclopedia, not a dictionary. This is an article about the notion of psychosomatic softness, and NOT an article on the Greek word μαλακία. In English, the notion of psychosomatic softness is conveyed by the word "malacia". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.122.12.221 (talk • contribs)
 * This article is on the Greek word μαλακία. You have tried to change it, but to do that you must get at least one other editor to agree with you.  I'm sorry, I must insist until you get to realize that Wikipedia isn't yours to do what you wish with it.  Esoglou (talk) 18:16, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * See malacia. — lfdder 18:18, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * This article should be redirected to "Malacia (effeminacy)". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.122.12.221 (talk) 18:26, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Try giving a persuasive reason why it should. You might then get someone to agree with you.  Until you do, the article must remain an article on malakia.  Or, if you prefer, add information to the malacia article, but try to keep it on malacia alone, not on Buddhism and the like.  Esoglou (talk) 18:30, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Because the notion of psychic softness is Greco-Roman, not Greek. In English, Greco-Roman notions are invariably conveyed by Latinized Greek words. 91.122.12.221 (talk) 18:43, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * If you wish, write an article on psychic softness. No good reason seems to exist for changing to a quite different name the name of an article on the ancient Greek word μαλακία (a word whose meaning is not limited to what you call psychic softness), an article parallel to the article on the modern Greek word μαλάκας (a word whose meaning is not limited to "masturbator"). Thank God, nobody has tried to change the latter to an article on this notion!  Esoglou (talk) 19:10, 4 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Yesterday I went too far. I am sorry for that and now undertake to make no edit to this article for at least 24 hours from now or at least 36 hours since my last edit.  I also explicitly recognize and highly praise the openness of the IP editor to letting the article continue to be about the word malakia.  The IP editor can obviously make very valuable edits to Wikipedia.  So I recommend taking an editing name and continuing the good work.  During the period when I will make no edit of the article, the IP editor may wish to consider whether it is really appropriate to keep the reference to the Latin words remollescere and effeminari used by Caesar in speaking of the Germans in general (not just the Suevi - and I wonder if by "Nervi" are meant the Nervii, whom Caesar classified as Gauls, not Germans).  A more appropriate quotation from Caesar would be his use of malacia to mean a calm at sea, which is already mentioned in this article.  The Greek loan word malacia used in Latin by Caesar and Seneca and also Pliny (see Lewis and Short on the use of malacia by Latin writers and on the meanings they attached to it, including sluggishness of the stomach) deserves mention in the article.  Perhaps the IP editor would also reconsider whether the Jack London quotation really is related to the Greek word.  And of course there are more extensive parts of the article that remain under discussion, even if the IP editor has removed the tag that labelled them as such.  Esoglou (talk) 07:42, 5 May 2014 (UTC)

Seeming vandalism
IP St Petersburg, why do you persist in attributing to sources what they do not say? For instance, claiming that this source says that μαλακία "figuratively denotes effeminacy" (it doesn't) or that this source says that the modern Greek word malaka is defined as "the brain's postorgasmic relaxation to a jellyfish state of blissful imbecility" (what it says is that the word is defined as "softening of the brain, stupidity, and imbecillity")? And why do you delete without explanation genuine information based on reliable sources that replace your inventions? That is not the constructive work expected from a Wikipedia editor. I have never yet reported other editors for this attitude, but have hitherto always been able to get them to accept reason. Unless by tomorrow you can offer a good defence, or alternatively undo your unconstructive edits, I fear I may have to do so for the first time. Esoglou (talk) 20:30, 6 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You have claimed in this edit that the opposite of malakia is patient endurance. Since you are unable to understand that "patient endurance" is an attribute of meek (i.e., soft-spirited) pack animals, such as a donkey, you should keep away from this article. A patiently enduring coolie is an epitome of malakia, not its opposite. That is exactly why the Greeks ascribed malakia to the Asiatics. 89.110.11.12 (talk) 20:39, 6 May 2014 (UTC)

 * What I put in Wikipedia is what is said in the reliable source: "καρτερ-ία, ἡ, patient endurance, perseverance, opp. μαλακία, X.Cyr.8.8.15, cf. Pl.La.192b, al.; “κ. ἡ περὶ τοὺς πόνους” D.H.2.28; distd. from ἐγκράτεια (self-control), Arist.EN1150b1: pl., “εἴ πού τινες . . κ. πρὸς ἅπαντα . . λέγονται” Pl.R.390d."
 * I could add this: "μα^λα^κ-ία, Ion. -ιη, ἡ, (μαλακός) A.softness, Hp.Aër.20: hence, of persons, moral weakness, opp. καρτερία, Arist.EN1150a31, cf. Hdt.6.11, Th.1.122, Lys.10.11, X.Smp.8.8, D.11.22, etc.; “τῇ σαυτοῦ ζυγομάχει μ.” Men.201.5. 2. = κιναιδεία, Ph.2.306, Plu.CG4, D.C.58.4. 3. weakliness, sickness, LXX Ge.42.4, Ev.Matt.4.23, Ps.-Hdt.Vit.Hom.36, POxy.1151.27 (v A. D.); μ. σώματος, opp. ψυχῆς, Phld.Mus.p.30 K. II. calmness of the sea, malacia ac tranquillitas, Caes.BG3.15.3."

 * If what you put in Wikipedia are false quotations and your own personal interpretations rather than what is stated in reliable sources, you should not be editing Wikipedia. Since you are deaf to what I say, I hope some other editor can explain this better to you.  Esoglou (talk) 06:24, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You are an incoherently loquacious waste of time. 89.110.17.243 (talk) 06:40, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It is regrettable that you prefer your own ideas to what is in reliable sources. The first citation stated (in the part I bolded) that καρτερία means "patient endurance, perseverance", and is the opposite of μαλακία.  The second, in the part I bolded, said that the basic meaning of μαλακία is "softness" and hence, when used of persons, it means "moral weakness", the opposite of καρτερία.
 * I am still hoping that someone else can get across to you what is involved in editing Wikipedia. Esoglou (talk) 06:50, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Malakia is philosophic weakness, not moral weakness. Asiatic warriors have the highest morale when it comes to standing up for their moral ideals. But it does not make them less slavish. Just compare the vague dreaminess of Indian philosophy with the terse coherence of the Western philosophy, and you will see why a handful of British administrators could control hundreds of millions of Indians despite all the bravery and moral strength of the latter. The same holds true for the North American Indians, who were famous for their bravery in battle but had an extremely vague and dreamy ("soft") philosophy, if any. 89.110.17.243 (talk) 08:06, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Interesting original-research opinion, suitable for a forum, but inadmissible in Wikipedia, which accepts only what is stated in published reliable sources. As for the opinion-holder's edits in the article, even a forum would condemn as dishonest the attribution to a source of what is not in the source and is even contradicted by it.  Esoglou (talk) 09:18, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It is not original research. For Epictetus and the Cynic epistles, the term malakoi refers to men who take life easy rather than enduring the hardships of philosophy:
 * This dictionary says: "Malacia : Figur. languor, effeminacy; Senec." So, the use of malacia as "effeminacy" is attributed to Seneca. I am just curious why you cannot see it.
 * It appears that you are a paid troll employed by a government-sponsored social-engineering agency. Could you make yourself scarce, troll? 89.110.17.243 (talk) 09:45, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I apologize. I was mistaken.  When viewed with Internet Explorer, the link you gave did not show the word "effeminacy", covering it up with "MALACI", a still recent defect that I (wrongly, it seems) blamed on Google Books, not on Internet Explorer.  With Safari, the word "effeminacy" does show.  This is a further reason to abandon Internet Explorer entirely.  (It had an advantage over Safari in that it updated the Wikipedia watchlist every time I returned to it, while Safari continues to give the watchlist as when first viewed in the tab.  Safari, on the other hand, I found better for editing.  I must see whether the other browsers I use update the Wikipedia watchlist.)
 * So the 1840 book does give "effeminacy" as one of the figurative meanings of malacia in Latin. Will you agree to include the other and more common meanings, including the other figurative meaning that the same dictionary gives for the word and puts in first place?  After all, the article is about the word μαλακία, isn't it?  Esoglou (talk) 10:54, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
 * There is a Wiktionary article dedicated to malacia. I will add a reference to it. The Wikipedia article should be kept as terse is possible, because only terse information is usable. All the medical meanings of the word malakia/malacia were introduced by the Greeks, not by the Romans. 89.110.17.243 (talk) 11:23, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You realize, of course, that the Wiktionary entry is about the English word "malacia", which has no meaning outside of medicine and pathology, and which has its own article in Wikipedia; and you are, of course, aware that this article is instead about the Greek word and its various meanings?
 * I agree that this article, like any other, should be kept as terse as possible. Terseness is rather the contrary of turning the article from one on the Greek word into an essay on something that one of the word's figurative meanings refers to.  Terseness also requires that there be no indulging in imaginative and quite unsourced commentary that a different though cognate word allegedly implies "the brain's postorgasmic relaxation to a jellyfish state of blissful imbecility"; that there be no dragging in of quotations that contain no word that is even cognate to malakia; and so on.  Agreed?
 * You have deleted citations that indicate the primary meaning of the Greek word, which should surely be given at the beginning. You have also deleted the citation of an authoritative source that indicates the primary meaning of the word as used by Latin writers.  Even the source whose mention you chose not to delete indicates the primary sense of the word as used by Latin writers.  In spite of those reliable source, you have insisted on giving the article a lead that mentions only a secondary sense, one of the word's figurative meanings.  You insist on a mention of that secondary meaning, and exclude any mention of more multi-sourced senses.  Esoglou (talk) 19:27, 7 May 2014 (UTC)
 * From the edit history, it is obvious that you had no interest in this article before I came here. You are not a Wikipedia administrator, and still you are spending an awful lot of your lifetime on trying to revert somebody else's edits. From your contributions, it follows that you have spent every day of the past four years on editing Wikipedia articles, writing thousands of words per day, wikilawyering, and squabbling, as if you were a full-time employee of some organization. Can you explain it? Because I have a strong desire to spit you in the face. 89.110.17.243 (talk) 20:56, 7 May 2014 (UTC)

Citation needed
Please indicate the reliable source that makes this generic statement: "Until women's enfranchisement (1920 in the USA, 1944 in France), the preferred and correct tranlation of malakos was 'effeminate'". Is this a misunderstanding of what Dale B. Martin said about Bible translations of μαλακοί in 1 Corinthians 6:9? Esoglou (talk) 15:47, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It will not help. You will keep asking for "reliable sources" simply because you are paid for it. 92.100.172.12 (talk) 18:02, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * If you want to edit Wikipedia, read WP:OR and WP:AGF. Esoglou (talk) 19:33, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You still have indicated no source that makes the questioned statement. I suppose it is because you can't.  Esoglou (talk) 19:36, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You are still maintaining in the article your claim that "Until 1920, which is the year of women's enfranchisement in the USA, the standard and correct translations of malakos and malakia were 'effeminate' and 'effeminacy' respectively." That is merely your own unsourced idea.  Esoglou (talk) 08:08, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Indication of date of a text
Why is the Loeb Classical Library translation of Seneca's Letter LXVII to Lucilius, which was published in January 1920 (Seneca, Epistles 66-92) and repeatedly reprinted since then presented as if it were a 1996 translation? Esoglou (talk) 15:47, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * In the Collins English dictionary, tranquillity is defined as "a state of calm or quietude". Therefore, the translation "it is not tranquillity; it is merely a flat calm" is an inane tautology. It is not because the translators were idiots, but because women were enfranchised in 1918 in Britain and in 1920 in the USA. It would be absurd to enfranchise "soft-brained imbeciles", hence the political pressure on the publishers. Do not forget that all books and films in the United States are censored. 92.100.172.12 (talk) 17:38, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * That opinion of yours doesn't justify the falsehood of presenting a translation published in 1920 as a 1996 work. Esoglou (talk) 19:37, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The 1920 book had one translator—Richard M. Gummere. The 1996 book had three translators—Richard Mott Gummere, Thomas H. Corcoran, and Frank Justus Miller. 92.100.172.12 (talk) 19:49, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You know all too well for your comfort that the text in question was already in the 1920 edition. It was not a 1996 composition. Presenting it as if it supported your unsourced generic statement about votes for women looks like falsehood, so please remove that (false, I suppose) impression.  Esoglou (talk) 20:04, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I have found the 1920 version. 92.100.172.12 (talk) 20:40, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Congratulations on finding it after deleting it when given by me. Thanks for removing the falsehood.  Esoglou (talk) 07:47, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Primarily Greek or Latin
The article open by citing one source (and one older than a more prestigious one that says practically the same thing) about the meaning of the word as used by Latin writers. Why is no similar source cited about the meaning of the original Greek word? Esoglou (talk) 15:55, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I have added a link to a Greek lexicon in the "External links" section. Since it has many scores of meanings, it is impossible to cite them all. 92.100.172.12 (talk) 17:55, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Whatever you did elsewhere (such as putting a completely out-of-date work under Bibliography) does not explain why you open the article citing no reliable source for the meaning of the Greek word in Greek, but only with a citation of an old source on the meaning of the word in Latin. Esoglou (talk) 19:39, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The Latin entry included in the lead-in begins as "MĂLĂCIĂ, (μαλακία,)", which clearly indicates the Greek origin. The Latin malacia is merely a transliteration of the Greek malakia and can be used in all the meanings of the latter. 92.100.172.12 (talk) 20:36, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The English word τοo is of Greek origin, as any English dictionary will indicate. English "malacia" is merely a Latinized transliteration of the Greek word μαλακία.  To say that either the Latin word or the English "can be used in all the meanings of the Greek word" is simply false.  Is either the English or the Latin word used to mean passive homosexual activity?  Esoglou (talk) 07:51, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * See this dictionary: 89.110.26.230 (talk) 08:37, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Even if this book weren't such a poor source for English usage, packing in terms not admitted to regular English dictionaries and giving definitions as questionable as saying that "malacia" means "homosexual desire" (felt by a man or a woman, to play the woman or to play the part of a man or of a woman) - but let us leave that aside: the essential thing is that it could not make up for your starting the article by talking about one secondary meaning of μαλακία (giving as basis your interpretation of an adjectival word, not of the word μαλακία itself) instead of giving a clear sourced account of what the word μαλακία really meant in Greek. The article is titled μαλακία, not "A secondary use of the word μαλακία".  Esoglou (talk) 13:07, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Preferring an out-of-date source
You have stated that you have put a link to an 1843 publication under "Bibliography". You are not unaware, are you, that the 1843 publication is an altogether out-of-date edition of a work that, because of the many profound revisions it has undergone since then, making it far more complete than in 1843, now enjoys such prestige. Were you to look with an open mind at the information a more up-to-date edition gives on the word μαλακός (as here), you would see that the Greek word does not correspond to your presentation of it. I already put in the article what it says of the Greek word μαλακία, but you refuse to allow this to be linked to in the lead. Why? Esoglou (talk) 19:42, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I have included the online lexicon in the "External links" section. It is almost identical with A Greek-English Lexicon, Harper & Brothers, 1846. But it was finished by 1925, when women had already been enfranchised: . That is why the entry "malakia" has been expurgated by censors and does not mention general effeminacy but equates malakia with κιναιδεία, which is just a particular case of effeminacy. 92.100.172.12 (talk) 20:30, 8 May 2014 (UTC)
 * You misread. Use of μαλακία as an equivalent of κιναιδεία is only one meaning of the word.  I really do not believe that you know more than the scholars who worked on that publication.  Strange that you use "expurgation" for what is the contrary of expurgation.  Has it not struck you that the "censorship" you speak of could be what was done in the past, not now?  If you are unclear about what κιναιδεία means, look up cinaedus in Wikipedia.  Expurgation of such terms is no longer as much in vogue.  For instance, the Loeb Classical Library has been revising its texts of, say, 1920, so as to give such terms in plain English instead of paraphrases such as "unnatural vice" and "effeminacy".  The original Loeb edition of Martial's Epigrams stated: "All epigrams possible of translation by the use of dashes or paraphrases have been rendered in English, the wholly impossible ones only in Italian."  The change that has occurred was of course - I speak ironically - due to female enfranchisement.  Your imaginative theory about a particular effect of female enfranchisement is at least as baseless as that.   Esoglou (talk) 08:02, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * How much does the government pay for your incoherent babbling? From your contributions, it follows that you have spent every single day of the past four years on spin-doctoring Wikipedia articles and wikilawyering. Oswald Spengler called such scribblers "male prostitutes". 89.110.26.230 (talk) 08:41, 9 May 2014 (UTC)
 * So, practically speaking, he called them μαλακοί, without bowdlerizing. Did he say anything that would help you defend your unsourced claim that, "until 1920, which is the year of women's enfranchisement in the USA, the standard and correct translations of malakos and malakia were 'effeminate' and 'effeminacy' respectively"?  I notice now that it was before 1920 that Gummere translated Latin malacia as "dead calm", seeing that printing of his translation of Seneca's letters in three volumes had been completed in time for it to be published in January of that year, seven months before ratification of the 19th Amendment of the US Constitution.  And for each of the passages cited in Liddell and Scott for use of μαλακία in Greek literature there are several pre-1920 translations that do not use the word "effeminacy" for it and scarcely any that do use "effeminacy".  Yet you would make them all out to be incorrect!  Esoglou (talk) 13:09, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

More unsourced claims
You declare: "The entry [in later editions of Liddell and Scott] no longer mentions general effeminacy but instead equates malakia to κιναιδεία (passive pederasty)." You have managed to pack several unsourced (and unfounded) claims into this declaration.

1. Saying that the entry "equates μαλακία with κιναιδεία" is, at best and assuming your good faith, ambiguous. What the entry says is that μαλακία was used to mean κιναιδεία by Philo Judaeus, Plutarch, and Cassius Dio Cocceianus. It does not say that μαλακία simply is to be equated with κιναιδεία. It gives this use of the word by those writers as only a secondary meaning. Esoglou (talk) 13:33, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

2. You say that κιναιδεία means "passive pederasty". What source supports this idea of your? Cite it. Liddell and Scott says it means "unnatural lust". Of the adjectival form κίναιδος, it says that the primary meaning is a catamite or, generally, a lewd fellow.

3. You say that the entry in the later editions replaces what you call "general effeminacy" with an equation with κιναιδεία. It doesn't. The 1843 edition (the first edition) cites two passages of Herodotus and Thucydides as using μαλακία to mean "delicacy, effeminacy". The later editions interpret the same passages of the same two authors (and other passages of several other authors) as indicating that they were using the word to mean "moral weakness". The change is from "delicacy, effeminacy" to "moral weakness", not to κιναιδεία. Esoglou (talk) 13:33, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

I do not think it worthwhile to examine whether your claim that the online edition is that of 1925 is as false as the three claims that I mention above. I will only say that, at least for the entries we are discussing, the online text is identical with that in the 1961 reprint of the 1940 (ninth) edition that I have here beside me, and which contains Stuart Jones's 1925 preface (an account of the detailed revision work done since the first 1843 edition) as well as what it calls "Postscript 1940". So I am not saying that your claim about the date of the online edition is false. Esoglou (talk) 13:33, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Postorgasmic
Another unsourced claim of yours is that the modern Greek word that you call maláka(s) "implies the brain's postorgasmic relaxation to a jellyfish state of blissful imbecility". What reliable source can you present in support of that claim? The one that you cite does not support it. Esoglou (talk) 13:59, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

Complete alteration of an article by a single editor
An editor using a dynamic IP in St Petersburg, Russia, who appeared for the first time on 30 April last, has in a mere ten days made hundreds of edits of this article that altered it completely, while reverting edits by the few other editors who tried to keep the article on-topic (it was originally an article on the Greek word μαλακία), accurate, and encyclopedic. Today he has without prior discussion blanked out several sections of the article. Guidance and help are needed. I recognize, of course, that the pre-30 April text needed improving. A better text to compare the present text with would be this, although this too would be better without the irrelevant section on viscerotonia. Esoglou (talk) 17:19, 9 May 2014 (UTC)

RfC: Complete alteration of an article by a single editor
The user opening this RfC requests community comment on the extent of the alterations to this article by a single editor.
 * Comment: The article did certainly need work, but the changes go too far, are mostly unsourced, and often are of WP:NPOV- and WP:NOR-violating editorial character, not encyclopedic in tone. That said, not all of the additions are useless.  I would suggest a good-faith attempt to restore the removed material, work in the additional material (including helping to source it) where it seems useful, and engage in dispute resolution with the editor in question.  If said party will not stop making unilateral changes, the matter can be escalated to WP:ANI. Regardless, the current state of the article is definitely unacceptable, and has the character of a personal essay.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  00:20, 13 May 2014 (UTC) PS: It's not abosolutely certain that these IP edits are by the same party, though it seems likely.  I was just in Greece recently, and the enormous tourist trade there has resulted in nearly every restaurant having wifi; I would think other major Eastern European cities are similar in this regard, so someone editing from various local cafés is a likely explanation for the changing IP addresses.  I would not assume that the party is switching IPs for any other reason.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  00:24, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Thank you, SMcCandlish, both for rearranging properly this request for comments and for your own comments. The St Petersburg editor has simply deleted your "essay" tag, as he has been doing constantly to all edits by other editors. Of the last 200 or so edits, the only one by another editor that he has allowed to stand seems to be this bot edit whose effect is invisible ("Remove invisible unicode control characters + other fixes using AWB (10096)").  I gave up my attempts to correct the article and tried to get him to remove errors and consider other points of view by pointing out problems on this talk page, but he has ceased to respond even here.  Having been the only other editor seriously involved, I might seem to be acting out of personal resentment, and so I don't want to be the one who reports the situation to WP:ANI, something too that others are able to do more competently than I can. Esoglou (talk) 06:44, 13 May 2014 (UTC)
 * *Admin note: The fluctuating IPs from St Petersburg never participate on the article Talk page (here) and they have no stable user talk where they can receive feedback. So I've semiprotected the article. If consensus is reached the protection can be lifted. EdJohnston (talk) 16:23, 14 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Seems sensible enough.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  22:04, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Comment: I've seen this type of ownership before, though not to the extent described above. I haven't examined the article, but it seems to me that a good course of action would be to compare the current version to the last stable version, and copy out any useful edits and additional sourced material from the current version, add it in to the last stable version, and update the article according to this new version. If someone is willing to do the comparison, I would be happy to edit those into the last stable version in an encyclopedic and prosaic manner and perform the update.
 * Edit: I just looked over the article, and I want to state that I unequivocally hold that this version by Esoglou is vastly superior to the current version. The IP editor(s) clearly are familiar with the word, but seem almost schizophrenic in their attempts to convey information about it. The current version is disjointed, nonsensical and rambling. MjolnirPants   Tell me all about it.  13:59, 15 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I have made bold to do a general revision of the article, keeping only what is securely sourced and is related to the word malakia, and removing the superabundant material about all sorts of ideas that have no sourceable relation to the word. Esoglou (talk) 09:45, 17 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I looked over the article, and it looks a lot better. Great job. It went from a time-cube-esque schizophrenic manifesto to a decent encyclopedic article. MjolnirPants   Tell me all about it.  20:02, 22 May 2014 (UTC)

Return of the St Petersburg IP
The editor in St Petersburg, Russia using a dynamic IP is again turning the article into a composition of his own imaginative original research. I have removed that. If he still refuses to discuss his proposals, it may be necessary to renew the page protection. Esoglou (talk) 07:07, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * I have renewed the semiprotection for a year. EdJohnston (talk) 14:43, 19 November 2014 (UTC)
 * It looks like the same problem is occurring again. Would you mind renewing the semiprotection once more? Regards, HaeB (talk) 08:04, 26 November 2016 (UTC)
 * Now semiprotected indefinitely. EdJohnston (talk) 13:48, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Stub article
Since Wikipedia is not a Dictionary, and not a place for original research, I have stubbed this entire article. Any investigation of how the Ancient Greeks linked effeminacy to moral weakness, and what words they may have used to do so, should proceed from reliable sources. Any contributions based on word usage or definitions should be contributed to Wiktionary instead of here.  - car chasm (talk) 22:22, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Malakia


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Allan Mason

Delete ASAP- my aplogies to everyone!

This is a vanity page. However, it is more complicated than that. He passes the professor test, but the oddest thing is I can't find his homepage, which is something that academics invariably have. His email address is not at an academic institute either, so this is unverifiable. I have emailed him. Dunc_Harris|☺ 16:01, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC) Hello old men, old farts, fat people- pls get yourselves lives- don't go harrassing poor old mason moo as he is probably busy eating someones poo. He lives in the sewer where the grass is  so green, but that is no reason for you paedophiles to be so    mean. Poo is harmless, unlike you, you greedy fat cows go moo moo moo!!! Mooo0000000000000000000000000000000!!!
 * smells somewhat bogus. Either the aliens from parallel universes have abducted the subject, or he is very skilled at keeping his name away from the internet. Delete if not verified in the next few days - even if Prof. Mason is not the figment of some Macquarie Uni student, and I have not seen one credible shred of information that proved he exists, this is not the way to write an article on him. --Ianb 16:47, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Errr, probably on the up and up, and it's not that unusual for academics to use ISP's for their outside e-mail or for U. pages to be on deep web. It's also one of those odd things where "professor" in medicine doesn't mean "professor" in the sciences or humanities (e.g. a clinical professor is in practice the whole time and would never teach; a research prof. might teach very rarely; this fellow sounds definitely like a clinical prof.).  At any rate, abstain pending results of the e-mail DuncHarris does.  If we keep, it has to go to clean up for NPOV, context, and the excision of the poo. Geogre 17:28, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Let's make that a "Strong delete for the barking moonbats who quack and then insult people here, demonstrating that they need to up their dosages!" Geogre 13:18, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes, the anon IP associated with Mason made this lovely point in Escitalopram before changing the page to a redirect. --JohnRDaily 14:00, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * just for reference: the IP involved resolves to a web proxy at Macquarie University . --Ianb 15:03, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Current policy requires that the person be "more well known and more published than an average college professor". Based only on the information in the article, he looks pretty average to me.  Delete unless someone can add enough information to show notability. Rossami 17:50, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Now a strong delete based on the evidence that this is a hoax. (And starting to wish that we had a sanction for general rudeness.) Rossami 14:04, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I got a "transient delivery error", so I guess the email ( allan_mason@amp.com.au )doesn't exist. Dunc_Harris|☺ 21:09, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete - unverifiable and probable nonsense. -- Cyrius|✎ 00:28, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * just pointing out that a transient delivery error does not mean the email address does not exist it is due to a temporary network or server problem, if it did not exist you would get a permanent error. I am a journalist at The Bulletin with News Week, and was told about Professor Mason, By Professor Stephen Touyz, and eating disorder specialist at the University of Sydney. He well regarded in his field, though works primarily at Cummins unit( North Shore). Perhaps before consider deleting the article you could check your facts!--137.111.13.34 01:31, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * An attempt at fact-checking leads me to believe the person described by the article does not exist. You're going to have to present some evidence that he does instead of bluffing with claimed credentials. -- Cyrius|✎ 02:50, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * A thousand pardons, but so what? There are many thousands of well-regarded researchers, scientists, and engineers working in academic fields who do not have their own encyclopedia articles. What makes this man worthy of one?  Pejoratives like "check your facts" will not bolster the article's case.  Abstaining, but from the "delete" side of the fence.  --Ardonik 03:42, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)
 * Professor Mason can be contacted @ allan_mason@amp.com.au. I find it surprising that you have such trouble verifying something so simple. Professor Mason is highly regarded in his field, and while may have not yet made any profound discoveries, has helped many of his patients work through their issues. Perhaps you could move away from your elitism for a second and look at the times!
 * Perhaps instead of accusing people of elitism, you could be adding things to the article to make it worthy of inclusion. I do not think the Wikipedia should include articles merely because it can; that would be the death of this project.  Would you agree that not every professor on this planet deserves an article here, no matter how compassionate?  And is it elitist of me to point that out to you?
 * You may continue insulting me if you like, but please try demonstrate the article's notability while you do. --Ardonik 06:23, Jul 31, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Hoax by anon. The email address allan_mason@amp.com.au given above would be in the domain of the Australian insurance company AMP. I used to work for them, and I know of no reason they would employ this person. The article states that he lectures at The University of NSW, which does have a medical school but no professor by that name. Professor is a more exalted rank in Australia than in the USA, and there's no way he'd be omitted if he did lecture there. Andrewa 13:47, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Do not pass Go, do not collect $200.  Now this guy is creating vanity pieces about drugs like Escitalopram.  Self-promotion is an ugly thing - anonymous self-promotion is even uglier. Someone needs to review and probably remove all references to him in other articles that this IP (Special:Contributions/137.111.13.34) has added. --JohnRDaily 05:54, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * He couldn't even expand SSRI properly on the Escitalopram page. This is a fraud. --JohnRDaily 06:08, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. I smells me the musky scent o' vanity.  Aye, the article be reeked wit' it.  Postdlf 06:17, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * You are an elitist - probably 90 something fat man who has no compassion for anything. Postmodernism considers all people worthy of study and does not try to categorise people in terms of hierarchy. Professor Mason has faced a lot of troubles in his life and worked through more than most people. This in itself makes him remarkable. Surely, he is not promoting himself, he works in the public health system in a psychiatric ward and can not take on any more patients. So what the man may have a bit of dyslexia, but why are you judging him. This is proof, that not only do you agree with silencing and marginalising people, but you are all arrogant old men with nothing better to do in your life!!!!--137.111.13.34 08:08, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Yo' mama. Postdlf 08:26, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Comment: Make that a hoax by a very rude anon, this is the same IP that posted the article. No change of vote. Andrewa 13:58, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Fire Star 16:20, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete as non-notable. Also as noted above apparently nonverifiable. Google does, however, get a single hit when you search for that email address, at http://lists.contesting.com/archives/html/3830/2004-03/msg00962.html —apparently an amateur radio enthusiast has or recently had or claimed to have that emal address. People attempting to contact this address should be polite as, if the address is active, this may possibly be a prank, or intended to harass whomever has that address. [[User:dpbsmith|dpbsmith (talk)]] 21:33, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * That email concerns an amateur radio callsign "VK2GR" — the same anonymous IP address that created this page also created a "VK2GR" vanity page touting his/her amateur radio club presidency that was deleted. Looks like the same person.
 * Comment: VK2GR is a valid amateur radio callsign for New South Wales (that's what the VK2 means) and is issued to Allan B. Mason, his address is also published in the amateur callbook so I could telephone him. But we have no evidence that he is the perpetrator of this hoax, I'd say more likely the victim. No change of vote. Andrewa 03:13, 4 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * obvious deleteHayford Peirce 23:01, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)


text:
Idel-Ural

Idel-Ural (Идел-Урал, Идель-Урал), literally Volga-Ural, is a historical region in Eastern Europe, in what is today Russia. The name literally means Volga-Urals in the Tatar language. The frequently used Russian variant is Volgo-Uralye (Волго-Уралье). The term Idel-Ural is often used to designate 6 republics of Russia of this region: Bashkortostan, Chuvashia, Mari El, Mordovia, Tatarstan and Udmurtia, especially in Tatar-language literature or in the context of minority languages. Idel-Ural is at the center of the Volga Federal District (Поволжье, Povolzhye). The major religions in the region are Islam and Orthodox Christianity.

History
Before being conquered by the Tsardom of Russia in the 16th century, the region was dominated by native Uralic tribes and a succession of Turkic-led empires, such as Volga Bulgaria, the Khazars, the Golden Horde and the Khanate of Kazan. At the time of Peter the Great's death, in the early 18th century, the region had been made up of roughly 1 million people, with around half being Tatars, Chuvash, and Bashkirs.

title: Idel-Ural


text:
Ġgantija

Ġgantija (, "place of giants") is a megalithic temple complex from the Neolithic era (c. 3600–2500 BC), on the Mediterranean island of Gozo in Malta. The Ġgantija temples are the earliest of the Megalithic Temples of Malta and are older than the pyramids of Egypt. Their makers erected the two Ġgantija temples during the Neolithic, which makes these temples more than 5,500 years old and the world's second oldest existing manmade religious structures after Göbekli Tepe in present-day Turkey. Together with other similar structures, these have been designated a UNESCO World Heritage Site, the Megalithic Temples of Malta.

The temples are elements of a ceremonial site used in a fertility rite. Researchers have found that the numerous figurines and statues found on the site are associated with that cult. According to local Gozitan folklore, a giantess who ate nothing but fava beans and honey bore a child from a man of the common people. With the child hanging from her shoulder, she built these temples and used them as places of worship.

Description and design
The Ġgantija temples stand at the edge of the Xagħra plateau, facing toward the south-east. This megalithic monument encompasses two temples and an incomplete third, of which only the facade was partially built before being abandoned. Like Mnajdra South, it faces the equinox sunrise, built side by side and enclosed within a boundary wall. The southerly one is the larger and older one, dating back to approximately 3600 BC. It is also better preserved. The plan of the temple incorporates five large apses, with traces of the plaster that once covered the irregular wall still clinging between the blocks.

The temples are built in the typical clover-leaf shape, with inner-facing blocks marking the shape. The space between the walls was then filled in with rubble. A series of semi-circular apses is connected with a central passage. Archaeologists believe that the apses were originally covered by roofing.

The effort is a remarkable feat considering the monuments were constructed when the wheel had not yet been introduced and no metal tools were available to the Maltese Islanders. Small, spherical stones have been discovered. They were used as ball bearings for the vehicles that transported the enormous stone blocks used for the temples.

The temple, like other megalithic sites in Malta, faces southeast. The southern temple rises to a height of 6 m. At the entrance sits a large stone block with a recess, which led to the hypothesis that this was a ritual ablution station for purification before worshippers entered the complex. The five apses contain various altars. Researchers have found animal bones on the site that suggest the space was used for animal sacrifice.

Excavations and recognition
Residents and travelers knew about the existence of the temple for a long time. In the late 18th century, before any excavations were carried out, Jean-Pierre Houël drew a plan based on that knowledge, which has been found to be highly accurate. In 1827 Col. John Otto Bayer, the Lieutenant Governor of Gozo, had the site cleared of debris. The soil and remains were lost without having been properly examined. German artist Charles Frederick de Brocktorff had painted a picture of the site within a year or two prior to the removal of the debris, so he made a record of the site before clearance.

After the excavations were conducted in 1827, the ruins fell into decay. The remains were included on the Antiquities List of 1925. The land was held privately until 1933, when the Government expropriated it for public benefit. The Museums Department conducted extensive archaeological work in 1933, 1936, 1949, 1956–57 and 1958–59. Its goal was to clear, preserve and research the ruins and their surroundings.

The Ġgantija temples were listed as a UNESCO World Heritage Site in 1980. In 1992, the Committee decided to expand the listing to include five other megalithic temples located across the islands of Malta and Gozo. The Ġgantija listing was renamed "the Megalithic Temples of Malta".

The temple and the surrounding areas were restored or rehabilitated in the 2000s. Lightweight walkways were installed in the temple in 2011, to protect the floor. A heritage park was developed and opened in 2013.

Contemporary interpretations
Anthropologist Kathryn Rountree has explored how "Malta’s neolithic temples", including Ġgantija, "have been interpreted, contested and appropriated by different local and foreign interest groups: those working in the tourist industry, intellectuals and Maltese nationalists, hunters, archaeologists, artists, and participants in the global Goddess movement."

Reportedly, some Goddess tours refer to the two temples at Ġgantija "as the Mother & Daughter Temple."

title: Ġgantija


text:
Idel-Ural State

The Idel-Ural State (Идел-Урал өлкәсе, İdel-Ural ölkäse, إِديل-اٗورال ئۈلكەسىٰ, also İdel-Ural berlege İdel-Ural ştatı), also known as the Volga-Ural State or Idel-Ural Republic, was an unsuccessful attempt of the autonomy of Tatar peoples that claimed to unite Tatars, Bashkirs, the Chuvash in the turmoil of the Russian Civil War. The republic was proclaimed on 1 March 1918, by a Congress of Muslims from Russia's interior and Siberia, but defeated by Bolsheviks the same month. Idel-Ural means "Volga-Ural" in the Tatar language.

History

During the Russian Revolution, various regional political leaders convened in June 1917 in Kazan. The group declared the autonomy of "Muslim Turk-Tatars of Inner Russia and Siberia". Later on, in Ufa, a parliament named the Millät Mäclese (National Council) was created, in which a draft for the creation of the state would be pushed through and accepted on 29 November 1917 following the Second All-Russia Muslim Congress. However, the Idel-Ural State was met with opposition from Zeki Velidi Togan, a Bashkir revolutionary, who declared the autonomy of Bashkiria, as well as from the Bolsheviks, who had initially supported the creation of Idel-Ural but two months after denounced it as bourgeois nationalism and declared the creation of the Tatar-Bashkir Soviet Republic, with around the same borders as Idel-Ural. This struggle between three different movements weakened the Idel-Ural State.

Members of the Tatar-Bashkir Committee of Idel-Ural based outside of Russia such as Ayaz İshaki participated in an anti-Bolshevik propaganda war. Some also joined the Prometey group, a circle of anti-Soviet Muslim intellectuals based in Warsaw. The idea of Idel-Ural by its supporting nationalists included the territory of modern-day Tatarstan, Bashkortostan, and most of Orenburg Oblast. The nationalists also wished for expansion towards the Caspian Sea. In January 1918, the Millät Mäclese adopted a constitution written by Galimzian Sharaf, Ilias and Jangir Alkin, Osman Tokumbetov and Y. Muzaffarov.

The Millät Mäclese looked to declare the creation of Idel-Ural on 1 March 1918, a plan which never came to fruition due to Bolshevik arrests of deputies of the Millät Mäclese and their official declaration of the Tatar-Bashkir Soviet Socialist Republic. After the arrested deputies were freed, they reconvened in the Tatar part of Kazan beyond the Bolaq stream (hence in Soviet historiography it was called "Transbolaq Republic" (Забулачная республика) ). The Republic, which in reality included only some sections of Kazan and Ufa, was defeated by the Red Army on 28 March 1918. Its parliament disbanded in April.

The president of Idel-Ural, Sadrí Maqsudí Arsal, escaped to Finland in 1918. He was well received by the Finnish foreign minister Carl Enckell, who remembered his valiant defence of the national self-determination and constitutional rights of Finland in the Russian Duma. The president-in-exile also met officials from Estonia before continuing in 1919 to Sweden, Germany and France, in a quest for Western support. Idel-Ural was listed among the "Captive Nations" in the Cold War-era public law (1959) of the United States.

title: Idel-Ural State


text: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cassandra Claire


text:
Edward Chichester, 4th Marquess of Donegall

Edward Chichester, 4th Marquess of Donegall (11 June 1799 – 20 January 1889), was a clergyman who late in life became an Irish peer. From 1831 until October 1883, he was known as The Very Rev. Lord Edward Chichester. He was the son of The 2nd Marquess of Donegall.

Born in Great Cumberland Place, Westminster, Chichester was educated at Eton and Trinity College, Dublin (TCD), where he graduated BA in 1822.

As a younger son, he became a minister of the Church of Ireland and served as Dean of Raphoe from 1831 to 1871. In 1853, his older brother's only surviving son, Frederick Richard Chichester, Earl of Belfast (1827–1853), died unmarried in Naples, leaving Lord Edward as the heir presumptive to the marquessate. In October 1883, at the age of 84, he finally succeeded his 86-year-old elder brother and became The 4th Marquess of Donegall. He died six years later in St Leonards-on-Sea, Sussex, and was buried in Kensal Green Cemetery, London.

On 21 September 1821, he married Amelia Spread Deane O'Grady, the third daughter of Henry Deane O'Grady by his marriage to Dorcas Spread. They had five children:
 * George Augustus Hamilton (27 June 1822 – 13 May 1904)
 * Annabella Augusta, who on 23 July 1844 married The 9th Earl Ferrers, and was the mother of The 10th Earl Ferrers (1847–1912)
 * Dorcas Juliana Fanny
 * Henry Fitzwarine (born 11 September 1834)
 * Adolphus John Spencer Churchill (born 18 December 1836), who married Mary, the only child of Robert Peel Dawson, of Moyola Park, Castledawson, and died in 1901. He was the father of Robert Chichester and great-grandfather of The Baron Moyola, Prime Minister of Northern Ireland 1969–1971, and of Sir Robin Chichester-Clark.

A large part of the Donegall estates was not entailed and in 1883 were inherited by the 3rd Marquess's only surviving child, Harriet Augusta Anna Seymourina, the wife of The 8th Earl of Shaftesbury.


text:
Talk:Laurent Lafforgue

Untitled
I checked in the directory of ENS alumni: he entered ENS in 1986 (not graduated). David.Monniaux 16:08, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

citing sources
Would the people who created/edited this article (or anyone else with access to the relevant data) please add source citations for the biographical info mentioned in the article, as per WP:CITE and WP:BLP? Thanks, Nsk92 18:36, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20061006045423/http://www.esec-alberto-sampaio.rcts.pt/filosofia/buescu_lafforgue.htm to http://www.esec-alberto-sampaio.rcts.pt/filosofia/buescu_lafforgue.htm

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title: Talk:Laurent Lafforgue


text:
User talk:Goplat

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Hope you like it here, and stick around.

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * To sign your posts (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).
 * Try the Tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the test area.
 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk
 * Follow the Simplified Ruleset
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Remember Neutral point of view
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck!

Thank you
I truly appreciate the effort you made in trying to eliminate the B-Movie Bandit once and for all. Unfortunately he's back, he's reverting articles and it's business as usual for the jerk. Others are still happily formatting these stupid things since, heaven forbid, information must not be lost! Result: I've lost whatever interest that I had in contributing to this project. I'm not blanking my pages, but nor am I planning on returning. Best way to reach me during the week is my work e-mail: production@dc.rr.com. I'm there during business hours at UTC minus 7. - Lucky 6.9 04:56, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

{welcome}
I'll use subst: from now on. Usually forget about it, so thanks. Whosyourjudas (talk) 00:25, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Welcome message
In the past when I've used instead of  the part of the message where the sig tildes are demonstrated inserts my sig and time stamps instead of staying as tildes, which is why I don't use it. I just tried it at my sandbox though and it didn't do that, so I'll start using it if there are no more problems. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 01:25, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hi. I noticed youre the one who removed the "unnecessary and confusing pipelinks" which I had spent good time adding. I note that youre new here so I wont bust your chops too much, but I dont think that you knew the point of those "unnecessary" links was so that Google would cache them as direct links, and thereby we can access WP:ML for example quickly through Google and other search engines. Though not as "necessary" as air, water, and WWF wrestling, they nevertheless proved useful, and in anycase took a lot of time to do: you might consider taking some time to re-do them now that they no longer are as confusing. (here is the diff) Thanks. -SV 02:41, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Saw youve made some progress. :)

Article Licensing
Hi, I've started a drive to get users to multi-license all of their contributions that they've made to either (1) all U.S. state, county, and city articles or (2) all articles, using the Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike (CC-by-sa) v1.0 and v2.0 Licenses or into the public domain if they prefer. The CC-by-sa license is a true free documentation license that is similar to Wikipedia's license, the GFDL, but it allows other projects, such as WikiTravel, to use our articles. Since you are among the top 2000 Wikipedians by edits, I was wondering if you would be willing to multi-license all of your contributions or at minimum those on the geographic articles. Over 90% of people asked have agreed. For More Information:
 * Multi-Licensing FAQ - Lots of questions answered
 * Multi-Licensing Guide
 * Free the Rambot Articles Project

To allow us to track those users who muli-license their contributions, many users copy and paste the " " template into their user page, but there are other options at Template messages/User namespace. The following examples could also copied and pasted into your user page:

 * Option 1
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions, with the exception of my user pages, as described below:

OR
 * Option 2
 * I agree to multi-license all my contributions to any U.S. state, county, or city article as described below:

Or if you wanted to place your work into the public domain, you could replace " " with "  ". If you only prefer using the GFDL, I would like to know that too. Please let me know what you think at my talk page. It's important to know either way so no one keeps asking. -- Ram-Man (comment| talk)

worthless redirects
please stop :( gren
 * Ok, I understand now. I was just intrigued to see a user with so many decent contributions start doing that... but now it makes sense.  Since you were fixing his mess it's only reasonable that I fixed some of the redirects created.  Thanks for clearing that up *sheepish look*

Nice work finding the page moves. I'm confused on how you are finding out which pages have been moved, though. I'd like to help out, but I've never found an easy way to find the moves that need to be undone. Can you educate me on that? - Nunh-huh 00:40, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I was wondering how you found the moves in the first place.... is it as simple as seeing who's done one move and then looking at their "contributions"? I thought you had some way of finding "moved" pages, as it seems I often miss the user's name, and without it it seems there's no way to find them. - Nunh-huh 01:09, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

These can all be speedy deleted, right? (Would you might tagging them with as you go?) -Aranel (" Sarah  ") 01:06, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

SORRY!
I blocked you because I didn't understand what was going on, I saw your name on tons of meaningless redirects being created and didn't work out that you were fixing someone else's vandalism... -- Jmabel | Talk 01:36, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC) BTW, I think if you'd been tagging them for deletion, I'd have easily worked out what was going on, but I simply didn't work it out. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:37, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)

By the way, my (wrong) guess was that someone had stolen your login. -- Jmabel | Talk 01:59, Dec 25, 2004 (UTC)

Webdings
looks like we crossed eachother while restoring this page. I have to run now, but I'll fix the page when I get back if nobody else has. Duk 02:11, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

HTML code for "sup"2
I don't see a need for HTML code with a superscript 2 when there is already a supported character that is a superscript 2. (The DNA2 article uses the superscript 2 character) WhisperToMe 23:29, 13 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Does this happen only Mac Classic or does this happen in Mac OS X as well? If this only happens in Mac Classic, I don't see this as a big problem. WhisperToMe 00:28, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Not everyone on Wikipedia wants to accomodate old browsers and systems. I know that some people may still have browsers that are affected by the 32K limit, but many people on here are starting to disregard the 32K limit. WhisperToMe 03:14, 14 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks ever so much for helping me out there. Ugh... awful thing. Matthew Platts 17:52, 19 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * And from me. Can you let me know how to do the revert, because I couldn't figure it out.  Noisy | Talk 17:56, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

 * Double thanks. I'd have probably got there in the end, but it's nice to see the confirmation.  Noisy | Talk 18:19, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

Pronoun on willys!
I can't understand what happened to the article Pronoun on willys!. I see you did something to it on my watchlist, but what did you do? Delete it? I can't find an entry for it on WP:VfD? -Lethe | Talk 20:16, Mar 19, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks II
For fixing my talk page. Talk about a quick vandalization ... I only voted on the image about 5 minutes ago. Must be a touch subject. CoyneT 01:07, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!!!
For quick fixing my talk page!!! Best, --Ninam 01:17, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

User:Goplat
Maybe this is a personal issue, but I'd like to ask you to put Something on your user page. Anything -- it's free. I especially like user pages with photos of users (as opposed to no photos, or photos of dogs, favorite music CDs, etc.) I don't mean to push, but no user page at all suggests either that you don't exist at all, or you are hiding. — Xiong (talk) 19:00, 2005 Mar 29 (UTC)

Well, it's been a month. I put this image on your user page; if it offends you, you can remove it -- or, since I did it, ask me and I'll take it off. If you have a headshot, I'll Photoshop it for you. Just hate to see a real user redlinked. — Xiong 熊 talk * 02:30, 2005 May 3 (UTC)

Template:Inuse
I see you edited Template:Inuse on 2004 Aug 27. You altered a "self-link" from MediaWiki:Inuse to Template:Inuse. Can you tell me what is the significance of the change? and the value of the self-link? Thank You! — Xiong (talk) 19:00, 2005 Mar 29 (UTC)

That makes sense. Thanks for the education! — Xiong (talk) 04:43, 2005 Apr 2 (UTC)

My Hero!
Thank you for getting rid of that porn! You are truly my hero defendin' lil' ol' me!

Image Tagging Image:Electron dot.png
Thanks for uploading Image:Electron dot.png. I notice the image page currently doesn't specify who created the image, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created the image yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the image on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the image yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the image also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture then you can use GFDL to release it under the GFDL. If you can claim fair use use or fairuse. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other images, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of image pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thanks so much. Blackcap (talk) 02:11, 10 December 2005 (UTC)
 * O.K. Thanks for the help, Blackcap (talk) (vandalfighters, take a look) 03:49, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

Spam in TetriNET
Hello, this is a message from an automated bot. A tag has been placed on TetriNET, by another Wikipedia user, requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. The tag claims that it should be speedily deleted because TetriNET is blatant advertising for a company, product, group, service or person that would require a substantial rewrite in order to become an encyclopedia article. To contest the tagging and request that administrators wait before possibly deleting TetriNET, please affix the template to the page, and put a note on its talk page. If the article has already been deleted, see the advice and instructions at WP:WMD. Feel free to leave a message on the bot operator's talk page if you have any questions about this or any problems with this bot, bearing in mind that this bot is only informing you of the nomination for speedy deletion; it does not perform any nominations or deletions itself. --Android Mouse Bot 2 17:10, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Please do not add inappropriate external links to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not a collection of links, nor should it be used for advertising or promotion. Inappropriate links include (but are not limited to) links to personal web sites, links to web sites with which you are affiliated, and links that attract visitors to a web site or promote a product. See the external links guideline and spam guideline for further explanations. Because Wikipedia uses the nofollow attribute value, its external links are disregarded by most search engines. If you feel the link should be added to the article, please discuss it on the article's talk page rather than re-adding it. Thank you.

I know you, spammer.Ms dos mode (talk) 04:51, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

File source problem with File:Electron dot.png
Thanks for uploading File:Electron dot.png. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 12:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 12:12, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:49, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Goplat


text: User talk:210.246.47.209

title: User talk:210.246.47.209