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Muhammad VIII al-Amin

Muhammad VIII al-Amin (محمد الثامن الأمين; 4 September 1881 – 30 September 1962) commonly known as Lamine Bey (الأمين باي), was the last Bey of Tunis (15 May 1943 – 20 March 1956), and also the only King of Tunisia (20 March 1956 – 25 July 1957).

He was enthroned in unusual circumstances following the removal of his predecessor Muhammad VII al Munsif by the French Resident General Henri Giraud in 1943. It was not until the latter's death in 1948 that his legitimacy was recognized by the people of Tunisia. He took steps to align himself with the Tunisian national movement against the French protectorate but was sidelined by the Neo Destour after he accepted French-initiated reforms in 1954. Shortly after independence Lamine Bey was turned out of his palace along with his family. Their property was seized and several family members were imprisoned. He ended his days living in a small apartment in Tunis.

Bey al-Mahalla (Crown Prince)
On 19 June 1942 Ahmed II died and was succeeded by Muhammad VII (also known as Moncef Bey). In accordance with tradition on 25 June Moncef Bey named Lamine Bey Bey al-Mahalla, or heir apparent, decorated him with the Ahd El-Amane and made him a Divisional General. A month later he had an opportunity to display his loyalty to his sovereign when he was contacted by one of the court counsellors, General M'hammed Belkhodja. Belkhodja, fearing for his own political future, was trying to persuade the French Resident General Jean-Pierre Esteva to depose Moncef Bey. Lamine Bey however warned the ruler of this conspiracy and Belkhodja was expelled from the palace on 30 July.

Replacement of Moncef Bey

Towards the end of the Tunisian Campaign in May 1943 General Alphonse Juin, Commander in Chief of French forces in North Africa, arrived in Tunis with orders to depose Muhammad VII for alleged attempts to collaborate with Axis forces during the occupation and for an indulgent attitude to the actions of the militant nationalist Destour party. After investigating the Bey's conduct, Juin could find no grounds for condemning him, but his orders were explicit. He tried to persuade Moncef to abdicate, but he refused. Juin therefore visited Lamine in his villa in La Marsa to make sure that he would not refuse the throne if it was offered, but Lamine at first refused to give this undertaking. Eventually Juin prevailed on him to agree, largely because of the benefits to his family. As Moncef Bey refused to abdicate, General Giraud removed him on 14 May 1943.

Muhammad VIII was installed on 15 May 1943 at the Bardo palace by General Juin, who invested him at the same time with the Légion d'honneur. He then received the homage of other princes of the royal family, ministers, court officials and members of the consular corps. For this occasion he reinstated the kissing of the hand, which his predecessor had abolished. That same day, Mohamed Chenik presented the resignation of his government and was replaced by Slaheddine Baccouche. As was the norm under the French protectorate, the Bey was not consulted on the choice of ministers (the Chenik government appointed by Moncef Bey had been an exception to this rule). It was only on 6 July that Moncef Bey eventually abdicated, thereby rendering Lamine Bey's accession legitimate. For most Tunisians however, Lamine Bey was still considered to be a usurper.

Early reign (1943–1948)

Lamine Bey kept a low profile in the face of demands from loyalists for the return of Moncef Bey. His rare appearances showed that his subjects were indifferent to him, or indeed hostile. To rebuild his standing, he supported the teachers of the University of Ez-Zitouna who were striking in December 1943 and chose Neo Destourians as ministers. Nevertheless, the general opinion was that he wanted to abdicate and restore the throne to Moncef Bey. When these rumours were denied, his popularity fell again.

On 7 May 1944 Charles de Gaulle visited Tunis on the first anniversary of its liberation from the Axis. Tunisians hoped that he would reverse the injustice of his old rival Giraud and restore Moncef Bey, but the Moncefists were disappointed in this hope. Instead De Gaulle presented Lamine Bey a Cross of Lorraine in gold, having learned that during the Axis occupation he used to listen secretly to De Gaulle's broadcasts from London. The Bey wore this on his uniform next to his decorations for a long time afterwards.

Hostility towards the Bey showed no signs of decreasing. He was boycotted by the other Husainid princes when he went to the mosque for Eid al-Fitr. To raise his prestige, he was invited to Paris where he attended the military parades on 14 July 1945, standing next to De Gaulle. He then went on to visit Germany. For Tunisians however, he remained 'The Bey of the French'. In August 1946 when the capital was at a standstill during a general strike to protest the arrest of several nationalists, he feigned ill-health to cancel the ceremony of kissing hands which he was due to hold for Eid al-Fitr, but when he passed through the streets of Tunis in February 1947 on the Mawlid festival, he could readily see his subjects' indifference. The anniversary of his accession was regarded by shopkeepers as a good occasion to close their premises and put up portraits of his predecessor. People even spat on his car. His health deteriorated in the face of this hatred and in 1947 an x-ray revealed a lesion in his left lung. Dr. Mohamed Ben Salem (1915–2001), husband of his daughter Princess Zakia, became his doctor and later his political advisor as well.

On 3 March 1947, the new French Resident General Jean Mons arrived in Tunis. The political situation had remained unchanged since the end of the war – the Destour and Neo Destour could agree on nothing except the demand to remove Lamine Bey and reinstate his predecessor. The court was consumed by a morbid obsession with his restoration. Indeed, the mood was so pervasive that Mons suggested to the French government that they proceed to restore Moncef Bey. Prime Minister Paul Ramadier refused, fearing the adverse reaction of French settlers in North Africa. On 19 July 1947 a new Grand Vizier, Mustapha Kaak, was appointed by the Resident General. For the first time, there was parity between Tunisians and French in the government.

Moncef Bey died in exile on 1 September 1948. His remains were brought to Tunis on 5 September for burial, and thousands of Tunisians turned out to pay their respects to him. His family threatened to boycott the ceremony if Lamine Bey attended, and he made no effort to present his condolences to them. However this was a turning point for his reign, as the possibility of Moncef Bey's restoration was now removed, and for the first time, his people began to regard him as their legitimate ruler.

Closer relations with the nationalist movement (1948–53)
After the death of Moncef Bey, relations between Lamine Bey and the nationalists improved. The Bey worked clandestinely with Habib Bourguiba and Salah Ben Youssef to raise demands for Tunisian self-government and during the period 1948–1951 was able to put the French authorities under considerable pressure. In 1952 a new Resident General took office, Jean de Hauteclocque, who took a much harder line than his predecessor and imprisoned Bourguiba and other nationalist leaders. The Bey sent an angry telegram to President Vincent Auriol complaining of De Hauteclocque's discourteous and threatening tone. The only result was that within a few hours, every one of his ministers had been arrested and interned. Deprived of the support of his ministers, on 28 March the Bey eventually gave way and signed the decree naming De Hauteclocque's nominee Slaheddine Baccouche as his Grand Vizier. However he refused to sign any decrees issued by the Baccouche cabinet or by the Resident General, bringing government to a standstill and producing deadlock.

With all his ministers and advisers in prison, Lamine Bey relied on the counsel and support of the trade union leader Farhat Hached, but in December 1952 he was assassinated by extremist French settlers of La Main Rouge. Unable to resist de Hauteclocque any longer, Lamine Bey eventually signed the decrees on limited internal autonomy which had been formulated months previously in Paris, thereby allowing new municipal elections. However the reforms imposed by the French remained a dead letter – the nationalists launched a campaign of terror against both candidates and voters. This extended as far as the ruling family itself – on 1 July 1953 the Bey's heir apparent Azzedine Bey was assassinated inside his own palace, accused of conducting discussions of his own with the Resident General.

On 2 September 1953, Jean de Hauteclocque was finally recalled to Paris and the new Resident General, Pierre Voizard took a more conciliatory line. Thousands of prisoners were freed and censorship was scaled back. However Voizard's instructions from the French government made the relative calm only temporary – he was to pursue a reform policy with the Bey only, but not with the Neo Destour. France hoped by this means to drive a wedge between the ruler and the militant nationalists. Lamine Bey was too wily to be deceived by the apparently pleasant demeanour of the new Resident General. On 16 October 1953 he refused to preside at the opening of the Tunis-Carthage Fair because some repressive measures were still in place. More efforts were made to appease him – on 1 January 1954 a number of nationalist leaders were freed and promptly received by the Bey. Bourguiba however, regarded by France as highly dangerous, remained confined on La Galite.

Estrangement from the nationalist movement (1953–56)
With Bourguiba still in exile, Lamine Bey asked Mohamed Salah Mzali to negotiate a new reform package with the Resident General. On 18 January 1954, sufficient progress had been made that the Bey asked him to form a new government. A number of nationalists, including Hédi Nouira, were willing to give these reforms a chance, but the French refusal to free Bourguiba remained a stumbling block for many Tunisians, and indeed, for Bourguiba himself. 'The failure of an old man terrorized by the fear of deposition and exile, combined with the vile ambition of an unscrupulous adventurer risk depriving Tunisia of the only asset that remains to it: it standing as a nation state; its legal character, recognized internationally by treaty and confirmed by the General Assembly of the United Nations. Suddenly my release has been postponed indefinitely' he commented. On 27 May Bourguiba, who had recently been transferred from La Gailte to custody in France, returned to the Bey the Grand Cross of the Nichan Iftikhar which he had received in 1950.

Mzali's cabinet resigned on 17 June 1954 and no successor was appointed. Bitter at the defeat of his efforts, the Bey confided to Voizard 'For a year, since I have been asking for Bourguiba to be released or transferred to a spa, I have received nothing but threats. Then you transfer him to a remote island without seeking my opinion. Now you are transferring him close to Paris, depriving me of the goodwill I might have earned by securing this move for him. I am ready to take up my rifle and become a fellagha to rebuild my contact with my people, for you have done everything possible to separate me from them.'

On 31 July 1954 the new French Prime Minister Pierre Mendès France arrived in Tunis. He was received by Lamine Bey in the Royal Palace of Carthage, where he announced internal autonomy for Tunisia. This was a welcome surprise for the Bey, who had been kept at arm's length from the negotiations between Mendès France and the Neo Destourians before his visit. Shortly afterwards, the Bey addressed his subjects: 'A new phase has just begun in the life of our beloved country. It is hard for us to recall the painful days that all of Tunisia has lived through.... before this decisive step in our national life, we must stand equal to our destiny in offering to the world the spectacle of a united people marching serenely towards progress. This great constructive effort to which we are summoned can only bear fruit for us through order, peace and security, which all the inhabitants of this country have the right to enjoy.' There was no doubt however that the balance of forces had shifted decisively away from the Bey. For France, the experience of the failed Mzali government highlighted the futility of hoping to evolve political institutions by means of negotiating only with the Bey. The new Resident General, Pierre Boyer de Latour was quick to understand this and it was now the Neo Destour who were the sole interlocutors for the Tunisian people.

Despite the repeated efforts of the Bey, a new government was formed without consulting the palace. To recover some semblance of his former influence, on 10 August he proposed to the French government that the institution of the beylicate should be replaced with a full monarchy, which would give him the authority he felt was appropriate. He was willing, in return, to sign supplementary agreements to the Treaty of Bardo necessary to maintain Franco-Tunisian cooperation and preserve the French presence in Tunisia. At the same time, he opened communications with Salah ben Youssef, in exile in Geneva. None of these approaches led to anything. After six months of negotiation, the autonomy accords were signed on 3 June 1955. Bourguiba had returned to Tunis on 1 June, welcomed as he came down the gangplank by the Bey's three sons, and by a giant demonstration of Tunisians. Having crossed the capital in triumph, Bourguiba visited the Bey in Carthage, apparently unmindful of having returned his decoration only a few months before, and made a stirring declaration of the deep attachment felt by the Tunisian people towards beylical rule. On 7 August the Bey applied his seal to the conventions agreed with France and on 1 September, for the first time since the protectorate was established in 1881, he applied his seal to decrees that had not been authorized by the Resident General. On 29 December 1955 his seal confirmed a decree establishing a Constituent Assembly for the country, with elections to be held on 8 April 1956. Tunisia appeared to be evolving into a constitutional monarchy.

In fact, power continued to ebb rapidly away from Lamine Bey as independence approached. Salah Ben Youssef returned from exile on 13 September 1955, giving the Bey hopes that his political power would start to be restored. He was close to Ben Youssef, who had been one of the few politicians to pay his respects to him at the time of his installation in 1943. However violence quickly erupted between followers of Ben Youssef and those of Bourguiba, leaving the Bey to vainly attempt to act as arbiter between them. The French had already transferred authority over the police force from the Resident General to the Tunisian government, whose ministers had been chosen by Bourguiba, so Ben Youssef's representations to the Bey had no effect. On 2 December the Bey summoned the Resident General (now known as the High Commissioner) Roger Seydoux to remind him of France's responsibility for public order—which in fact it no longer had. In effect, the Bey was appealing for a restoration of colonial powers from the nationalist government. As his appeals had no effect he made use of the only power remaining to him and refused to apply his seal to the decrees authorizing the forthcoming elections and the appointment of local governors and mayors. This move was welcomed by Ben Youssef, who demanded a ministerial reshuffle, but naturally alienated the Bey further from Bourguiba and his followers. He backed down and signed them the following day. Ben Youssef fled the country on 28 January and a crackdown followed on his followers in Tunisia, in which Bourguiba relied on the army, with its French officers, the airforce and heavy artillery. Horrified at this brutality, Lamine Bey renewed his ineffective protestations to Seydoux in April 1956. The only effect was to enrage Bourguiba, who hastened to the palace to accuse the Bey and his family of seeking to hinder the transfer of power from France to the Tunisian government. On 20 March 1956 the Franco-Tunisian protocol was signed by the Grand Vizier Tahar Ben Ammar and the French Foreign Minister Christian Pineau.

King and Deposition (1956–1957)

The French protectorate in Tunisia officially ended on 20 March 1956. On the same day, the Kingdom of Tunisia was proclaimed and the Bey was proclaimed King of Tunisia. His reign, however, was to be short-lived.

The 1956 Tunisian Constituent Assembly election saw a landslide victory for the National Union (an alliance between Neo Destour, the Tunisian General Labour Union, the National Union of Tunisian Farmers and the Tunisian Union of Craftsmen and Merchants) which won all 98 seats.

The Constituent Assembly held its formal opening ceremony on 8 April 1956. It was a sign of the changing times that the King presided over the session dressed in the uniform of a marshal of the Ottoman Empire, whose subject he had been when he was born, but which had ceased to exist in 1922. He expected to be present during the debates leading to the election of a speaker of the Assembly, and Prime Minister Tahar Ben Ammar had to intervene to persuade him to leave. The King withdrew with ill grace.

Two days later, Ben Ammar resigned and the King appointed Bourguiba as new Prime Minister.

On 31 May a decree from the Constituent Assembly abolished all privileges, exemptions and immunities which had previously been accorded to the ruling family. They were now simply ordinary citizens. Although this abruptly ended the civil list payments to members of his family and placed the crown estate under government control, the King signed the decree without protest. Another decree on 21 June modified the national emblems and removed any reference to the Husainid dynasty; another still, on 31 August, removed the King's prerogative to pass regulations, transferring this to the Prime Minister.

Further decrees followed, compelling the King to turn over various properties to the state, against the backdrop of a hostile press campaign highlighting the questionable, and perhaps even criminal, circumstances under which they had been acquired. These measures served to greatly reduce the remaining prestige of the King. Nonetheless King Muhammad VIII was the first person to be honoured, on 19 December 1956, with the decoration of the new Order of Independence. He reciprocated on the same day by awarding Bourguiba the Nichan Iftikhar (for the second time). Bourguiba clearly had little remaining respect for the ruling family however. On 19 July, at Eid al-Fitr he made a protocol visit with his ministers to the King's wife, but refused to approach the throne. 'I have not come here as I did before, but as head of the government. You should step forward to meet me and not remain seated in your throne,' he declared.

On 15 July 1957 the Tunisian army replaced the Royal Guard around the palace, and thereafter the King effectively lost his freedom of movement. On 18 July his younger son Salah Eddine was arrested on charges falsified by the police.

On 25 July 1957 the Constituent Assembly voted on a show of hands to abolish the monarchy, declare a Republic and make Bourguiba President.

Straight away, a delegation headed by deputy speaker Ali Belhouane Interior Minister Taïeb Mehiri and Justice Minister Ahmed Mestiri went to the palace of Carthage to make the King aware of the decree and ask him to leave the palace along with his wife, their three sons, seven daughters and grandchildren.

"'We went into the throne room right away, and without being announced, as we were already expected. Lamine Bey, wearing a jebba and with his hair undressed, stood there, dignified, without saying a word. Belhouane called out in his theatrical voice As-Salamou Alaikum and then read out the resolution of the Constituent Assembly. A photographer had come with us, and wanted to start working, but straight away the King broke his silence. Ah no, not that! he said, making a gesture of refusal, the last reflex of his authority. We did not want to deny the wishes of the old man, or humiliate him further. Then Ali Belhaouane made a gesture of salute with his hand, repeated As-Salamou Alaikum in his stentorian voice, and turned on his heels. As we withdrew, police commissioner Driss Guiga presented himself and advised the fallen ruler of an order from the Minister of the Interior placing him in isolation. In the course of this, hearing the name of his father spoken, the King reacted again, saying Allah Yarhamou (May God save his soul) clearly out loud as he left the room. It was over. The whole thing had not even lasted three minutes.'"

Confinement and death
The 75-year old Muhammad left his palace wearing a simple jebba of white linen and a pair of yellow Moroccan slippers, which he lost along the way. He was taken to the Hidaya palace in Manouba, an old abandoned beylical palace without water or electricity, which was assigned to him and several members of his family: his wife Lalla Djeneïna, their sons princes Chedly, M'hamed and Salah Eddine, princess Soufia, his son in law Mohamed Ben Salem and the Bey al-Mahalla Hassine Bey. The furniture of their new dwelling was no more than a mattress on the floor, with no sheets or covers. Food was provided for the first three days, after which the family was left to fend for itself.

Chedly and Ben Salem were transferred to the prison of Kairouan on 11 August. Hassine, M'hamed and princess Soufia were freed several days later. The last son, Salah Eddine, was transferred to the civil prison in Tunis three months after his house arrest. Alone in the ruined palace, the old couple were not allowed to leave until October 1958, as Lamine's health had deteriorated very badly. They were then transferred to a small villa in La Soukra with a kitchen, a bathroom and two other rooms and given a monthly allowance of 80 dinars, roughly the same as the salary of a secondary school teacher. They remained under house arrest and were forbidden even to go into the garden outside – indeed a policeman remained on duty actually inside the villa. Their daughter princess Soufia was allowed to visit them whenever she wished however. On 8 September the trial of Tahar Ben Ammar came to an end, having worked up the public mood with accusations made, and later withdrawn, about the who possessed the jewels which had belonged to the Bey's wife, which had still not been found.

Two years later, the search for the jewels was renewed and both the former King and his wife were summoned for interrogation. It may have been at this point that Salah Eddine, still confined in the civil prison of Tunis, was taken to his father, imprisoned in the same building, to say farewell to him. Summoned to the national security headquarters Lamine's wife was interrogated relentlessly for three days to the point where she could no longer speak and suffered an apoplexy as her son Salah Eddine recalled years later. 'As for mother, she never recovered from her arrest and most of all from the three days of interrogation on the fourth floor of the Ministry of the Interior, where the security forces questioned her endlessly about what happened to the family jewels. Whether she was maltreated or not, she came back with blood coming from her mouth and internal hemorrhages in her lower abdomen. She died later in my father's arms, still in shock, and without ever telling us what she had undergone during her interrogation.' Taken back to La Soukra in agony, she died two days later. She was buried in the cemetery of Sidi Abdelaziz in La Marsa, with her sons Salah Eddine and M'hamed present. Lamine was not allowed to leave his villa for the occasion. The public was also kept away from the burial by the police. Sidi Ali Ben Khodja, the Sheikh El Islam, was however allowed to enter the cemetery to pronounce the prayer for the dead.

Several days later, the former King's house arrest was lifted. Lamine was allowed to go out into his own garden, and to visit the tomb of his wife. He left the villa in La Soukra and moved into the apartment of a Jewish friend in the Rue de Yougoslavie, who had already taken in Ahmed El Kassar, husband of Princess Soufia as well as the family of Prince Salah Eddine when they were expelled from the palace. When Prince Chedly was freed in 1961, he joined them in Tunis in the Rue Fénelon in Lafayette, in a two-room apartment which was placed under constant surveillance.

Muhammad died on 30 September 1962 at the age of 81. He was buried in the cemetery of Sidi Abdelaziz next to his wife, unlike most rulers of his family who were interred in the mausoleum of Tourbet el Bey in the medina of Tunis. Sheikh Muhammad al-Tahir ibn Ashur said the prayers over his body and a single photographer, Victor Sebag, recorded the event, and was held overnight in a police cell for doing so. He was succeeded as head of the Husainid Dynasty and titular king by Husain Bey.

Family and private life
He married Lalla Jeneïna Beya (1887–1960) in 1902, daughter of Bashir Ayari, a Tripolitanian merchant from the Ras Darb district of Tunis. He had twelve children, including three princes and nine princesses:

 * Princess Lalla Aïcha (1906–1994): The eldest daughter of the king, she represented her father on several occasions. She received Habib Bourguiba in the port of La Goulette on 1 June 1955, on the occasion of the country's internal independence. She married Slaheddine Meherzi. They had three sons.
 * Princess Lalla Khadija (1909–199?): She married in 1939 Khaireddine Azzouz.
 * Prince Chedly Bey (1910–2004): Former director of the Royal Cabinet (1950–1957) and Head of the Royal Family from 2001 to 2004. He married princess Hosn El Oujoud Zakkaria (?–1991).
 * Princess Lalla Soufia (1912–1994): She initially married the prince Mohamed Hédi Bey (1907–1965) before they divorced, and later in 1943 she married the major general Hédi Ben Mustapha, later Chief of Protocol under the republic, (divorced), she married the lieutenant general Ahmed Kassar.
 * Prince Mohammed Bey (1914–1999): He married a Circassian odalisque named Safiya (1910–2000), raised by Lalla Kmar (wife successively of Muhammad III as-Sadiq, Ali III ibn al-Husayn and Muhammad V an-Nasir).They had four sons and one daughter.
 * Prince Salaheddine Bey (1919–2003): Founder of CS Hammam-Lif. He was arrested in August 1957 after the abolition of the monarchy. He married Habiba Meherzi (1916–199?) then Liliane Zid (1932–1998). He had two sons and two daughters by his first wife, and three sons and one daughter by the second.
 * Princess Lalla Zeneïkha Zanoukha (1923–2007): She married in 1944 the colonel Nasreddine Zakaria. They had two sons and three daughters;
 * Princess Lalla Fatma (1924–1957): Spouse of Mustapha Ben Abdallah, deputy Governor of Mateur. They had two sons and one daughter.
 * Princess Lalla Kabira Kabboura (1926–2007): Spouse of the chief of protocol Mohamed Aziz Bahri. They had four sons and two daughters.
 * Princess Lalla Zakia Zakoua (1927–1998): She married Mohamed Ben Salem in 1944, former minister of health. They had three sons and three daughters.
 * Princess Lalla Lilia (1929–2021): She initially married Dr. Menchari (veterinarian), she married again in 1948 Hamadi Chelli. She went into voluntary exile in Morocco after the abolition of the monarchy in 1957. She returned to Tunisia after Zine El Abidine Ben Ali ascended to the presidency and was allowed to return from exile. She had two sons and one daughter.
 * Princess Lalla Hédia (1931–2010): She married the engineer Osman Bahri. They had two sons and three daughters.

title: Muhammad VIII al-Amin


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Talk:Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny

What the hell?
I can't find much info on this. Is this suppose to be a manga series or an anime series or what. It isn't very clear: "According to the December 2006 edition of Newtype magazine, a non-sequitur comedy series based on the massively popular Yonkoma comic Gundam SEED Club is due to be released in April 2007. It will star the entire cast of the Gundam SEED saga (even those who were killed) as cuddly and adorable super deformed caricatures, enacting a madcap but endearing parody of a high school romance manga, set in "Saint Minerva" high school, a grounded Minerva vessel with a "Japanese school clock" in place of the bridge. The youths will be the students and the adults will be the teaching staff."

 * I'm guessing it's a manga series since it says "based on the massively popular Yonkoma comic Gundam SEED Club" and "but endearing parody of a high school romance manga". You can try contacting the user who originally edited that in. User talk:Ronin Aquila http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mobile_Suit_Gundam_SEED_Destiny&diff=prev&oldid=112997934 --Silver Edge 11:31, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Animated, apparently. Don't take it as an official source, though.--CCFreak2K 06:52, 2 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Based on this and this from Gunota Headlines, it is going to be on a Gundam SEED and SEED Destinty fan disc. --Silver Edge 21:36, 12 May 2007 (UTC)

Philippines and Singapore tv airing question
I need some information about the Philippines and Signapore tv airings for the list of episodes page. Need information like the licensor/distributor, whether it was subbed or dubbed (and what language), and of course, a source. Would be nice if the source has a list of air dates for each episode as well. Thanks Toothpyx (talk) 17:01, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Uhhh... I kind of forgot when Gundam Seed Destiny was aired in the Philippines but it was dubbed in my language, Tagalog. And it ended airing last year. It aired in ABS-CBN and Hero (TV channel). Enterprise-1701e —Preceding comment was added at 14:31, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Article Merge to Gundam Seed
Well I'm proposing this to be merged to Mobile Suit Gundam SEED. Agreements or disagreements? DragonZero (talk) 15:30, 21 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Disagree. It's standard practice for seperate series in the same setting to have seperate articles.  Examples would be the 6 different Star Trek series, the 3 different CSI series, and the numerous Law & Order series.  Do you have specific reasons for a merger? Edward321 (talk) 19:56, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Well I'm just thinking about the movie's name. "Mobile Suit Gundam SEED: The Movie". Since they called it Gundam SEED and not Gundam SEED Destiny the movie, they must've considered the Gundam SEED series as one whole series; kinda hard to explain. Since the series did not begin as a manga, and unlike Naruto or Dragonball which the series all continued in one manga, it's hard to prove they are that close of a franchise to merge. I'm not sure what the wiki rules about this is either. DragonZero (talk) 20:30, 22 March 2009 (UTC)
 * This my friend, it purely WP:OR, since nobody knows what are they showing in the movie, no one knows if it is really just a movie containing SEED and no plot from SEED-D will be in it or not. MythSearchertalk 16:04, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Merging this into the previous series article would be like throwing in TNG, DS9 and Voyager into the article for the original Star Trek. Destiny is a continuation of the story started in SEED, but it's more a sequel with its own narrative. Kind of like how Voyager used the Maquis plot from DS9 to start its own story and then from there went with original, independent elements.--HellCat86 (talk) 22:11, 22 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Isn't this using Other stuff exists? So far scanning over the posts, there has not really been a discussion whether this should be merged or not. I'm gonna post this at the project page and see what people say. DragonZero (talk) 02:55, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * This is not Other stuff exists, this is showing concensus is against mergers like this. There may not have been much of a discussion of this merger proposal, but there has been a discussion, with everyone willing to comment (except you) opposing a merger. Edward321 (talk) 21:07, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * No merge. They're separate shows, not, say, separate seasons of the same show. There's no reason to do this. Jtrainor (talk) 19:18, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Merge?
((Copied and pasted from Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Anime and manga))

I was wondering if Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny should be merged into Mobile Suit Gundam SEED.DragonZero (talk) 03:06, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Looks like a direct sequel to me, so I'm inclined to say yes, with some clean up on both ends. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 13:07, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

 * My opinion is: i'm unconvinced. Merging could create a new insight by putting the Gundam SEED and its sequel into comparison which would a good thing. Unfortunately it would require real expertise in the field (You have at least watched both series) and a good knack at copy-editing. There is no room for screw-up :(
 * In the same vein we could also try to suggest the merger of Mobile Suit Gundam, Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam & Mobile Suit Gundam ZZ using the sequel argument. --KrebMarkt 15:29, 14 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Well, I watched them both, but my copy editing has some grammar problems as I've been told. If there are no objections about the merge, I'll paste this into the discussion of the merge, and then start editing in June. DragonZero (talk) 23:17, 14 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Courageous, you are ;) Ok let this hanging in the merge discussion for a while then use it to placate those who complain about the lack of debate. Meanwhile as AnmaFinotera wrote you could do some copy-editing so a merge would be easier. --KrebMarkt 07:34, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Everyone who commented on the article talk page objected to the idea of a merge.  Using the sequel argument, we should also merge all Star Wars movies into one article and all the Star Trek TV sereis into on article.  Edward321 (talk) 20:59, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Films use different guidelines (and for minor films, their sequels are often covered in the same article). Per WP:MOS-AM, they are the same story, same characters, just a continuation. There does not appear to be any significant differences, so I see no reason for them to have multiple articles. No different really than the situation with Naruto and Naruto: Shippuden, which are covered in a single article, and the three named Dragon Ball series. -- AnmaFinotera  (talk · contribs) 21:15, 17 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Guess I'll continue with the merge in June. DragonZero (talk) 00:49, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Although I'm normally opposed to merges, but I think this series should be merged. Firstly, the GSD page doesn't have much, I think this situation is very similar to Code Geass and Code Geass R2. Secondly, it would probably help to cleanup the articles a lot. I'm willing to help, I've seen both seasons and know quite a bit about the series. - plau (talk) 15:45, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Disagree The series are two different things, they are two different series, the first series of the Cosmic Era time line and the sequel to it. They are and should be in fact treated like Mobile Suit Gundam and Mobile Suit Zeta Gundam, they have recurring characters, but that is it.  The protagonist of SEED is Kira Yamato, and the protagonist of SEED-D is Shinn Asuka and Athrun Zala.(sourced by the Otona no Gundam and Dengeki Hobby special edition booklet.)  SEED was said to be a remake of Mobile Suit Gundam with nowadays views, yet SEED-D is said to be showing why war starts.(both sourced from the special interview before the shows aired)  Being in the same time line does not mean that they are of the same story and same characters.  I hate the series, but at least for the first 3X episodes, its story is led by new characters, not the old ones.  Unlike Naruto and Dragon Ball, which is derived from one single manga story(with fillers occasionally when anime caught up with manga)  SEED-D was not in any plan of SEED's story during the production of SEED.  There are no original derived manga or novel story for both series and the story is in fact written along with the production(and constantly changed during the show for personal reasons of the director, like the director hated a seiyu and removed all her jobs in later episodes, to make the production team mad with overwhelming workload while the director enjoys concert time with his script writer wife.)  MythSearchertalk 16:04, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Like I said, the movie can be really only the movie of the series SEED and not for both SEED and SEED-D. You do not have any source stating it is for both series, especially the movie is announced before SEED-D. MythSearchertalk 23:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Oppose Although Destiny is a continuation, it's by all rights its own story with a different lead character, different antagonists, etc. It continues some elements of SEED, but not enough really to merge the two into a single entry. It's a seperate production that was commissioned after the success of Gundam SEED. That fact is rather key, given that Destiny was plagued by noted production upsets that did effect SEED. Why? Because they were two seperate productions and thus both deserve an individual article. Though knowing Wikipedia, this will probably just come down to who screams the loudest...--HellCat86 (talk) 20:52, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What kind of injustice has Wikipedia served you? No need to complain it should be discussed. Also, besides plot wise, can you discuss why it deserves its own article? There is no poll so there's no need for *Oppose since the ones who agree with the merge did not do something like that. Try to keep this neutral.DragonZero (talk) 22:50, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The onus is on you, the proposer of the merge, to argue why there should be a merge. There's certainly no policy reason why it should be merged. Your theory for merging it so far seems to be some kind of OR based on the name of the movie. Jtrainor (talk) 22:58, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well I only begun with "Should this be merged", I didn't use the OR as the base of the merge, I just took people's opinion.DragonZero (talk) 23:03, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * You've only given one reason as to why these two articles should be merged.   That reason is based on your original research about the movie's name, which ignores the fact the movie currently has no name.   Edward321 (talk) 23:42, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * DragonZero, you presumed an unaired movie to be a combination of the 2 series, then use it as the base argument of you merge proposal. You have no source supporting your own presumption, and to put it in worse terms, you are purely using your own thought on the movie issue.  You are imagining that the movie is for both, but yet you ignored the fact that it could be for the first series and the first series only.  MythSearchertalk 23:46, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Fine, I'll show that I was not using the movie as a base for the merge. Now, what about the other reasons posted above my other users.DragonZero (talk) 23:50, 19 May 2009 (UTC)
 * What other reasons posted by other users? For that matter what other reasons do you have other than your original research about the movie title? Edward321 (talk) 00:12, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Okay okay. I surrender.DragonZero (talk) 00:16, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Merge 2
Discuss here, not here. DragonZero (talk) 05:08, 9 August 2009 (UTC)

Refs dropping place
Mania.com:

DVD talk:

ANN:

Anime Fringe:

--KrebMarkt 06:43, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * As I recall, I have a source from dengeki hobby(short review and intro to the series) and a primary source in the official file interviewing the director, both in Japanese. I will see if I can include a short quote here when I find the books. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  07:26, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Add any stuff you think relevant & reliable --KrebMarkt 07:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I will :) Although I hate the series, and feels like impossible to keep npov, providing sources can be the best npov thing I can do to help contribute.  I have stated in WP:GUNDAM that I will be providing sources of Japanese and Chinese languages if any of them are needed. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  07:44, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

North America DVDs releases:1 2 3 4 5 6 6 Sp Ed. 7 7 Sp Ed. 8 9 10 10 Sp Ed. 11 12 12 Sp Ed. Final plus Box 1 Box 2 TV Movie 4 I must have missed some :( --KrebMarkt 07:42, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Tokyopop refs (not really related to Seed Destiny thought):
 * Seed novel 1 Seed Novel 2 Gundam Seed Novel 3
 * Gundam Seed Astay 1 Gundam Seed Astay 2 Gundam Seed Astay 3
 * Gundam Seed X Astay 1 Gundam Seed X Astay 2 --KrebMarkt 07:55, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Kodokawa shoten ref:
 * Manga?
 * Gundam SEED DESTINY THE EDGE (1) Gundam SEED DESTINY THE EDGE (2) Gundam SEED DESTINY THE EDGE (3) Gundam SEED DESTINY THE EDGE (4) Gundam SEED DESTINY THE EDGE (5)

 * Gundam SEED DESTINY THE EDGE Desire (1) Gundam SEED DESTINY THE EDGE Desire (2) --KrebMarkt 08:00, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Second wave of Kodokawa refs:
 * Novel?
 * 機動戦士ガンダムＳＥＥＤ(1) 機動戦士ガンダムＳＥＥＤ(2) 機動戦士ガンダムＳＥＥＤ(3) 機動戦士ガンダムＳＥＥＤ(4) 機動戦士ガンダムＳＥＥＤ(5)

 * 機動戦士ガンダムSEED DESTINY(1) 機動戦士ガンダムSEED DESTINY(2) 機動戦士ガンダムSEED DESTINY(3) 機動戦士ガンダムSEED DESTINY(4) 機動戦士ガンダムSEED DESTINY(5)

 * 機動戦士ガンダムSEED ASTRAY(1) 機動戦士ガンダムSEED ASTRAY(2)

 * 機動戦士ガンダムSEED DESTINY ASTRAY(1) 機動戦士ガンダムSEED DESTINY ASTRAY(2) --KrebMarkt 08:14, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

It happened that we(or I) have forgotten the obvious source. official site. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk 07:28, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Useful but a bit deprecated because Bandai forgot to update it when they changed their global website design so some links are broken and redirect to Bandai main page :( --KrebMarkt 08:20, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, at least it would be helpful for the general information. Just dropping it here when I remembered it. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  08:37, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

Third wave of the never ending Gundam Seed/Destiny/Astray item from Kodokawa:

 * Official guides
 * Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Official Guidebook Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Official Guidebook 2 Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Official Guidebook 3

 * Mobile Suit Gundam SEED DESTINY official Guide Book Mobile Suit Gundam SEED DESTINY Official Guide Book 2 Mobile Suit Gundam SEED DESTINY Official Guide Book 3

 * Manga
 * Gundam Seed Astray Manga (1) special ed. Gundam Seed Astray Manga (1) Gundam Seed Astray Manga (2) Gundam Seed Astray Manga (3)

 * Gundam SEED ASTRAY R Manga (1) Gundam SEED ASTRAY R Manga (2) Gundam SEED ASTRAY R Manga (3) Gundam SEED ASTRAY R Manga (4)

 * Gundam SEED X ASTRAY Manga (1) Gundam SEED X ASTRAY Manga (2)

 * Gundam SEED DESTINY ASTRAY Manga (1) Gundam SEED DESTINY ASTRAY Manga (2) Gundam SEED DESTINY ASTRAY Manga (3) Gundam SEED DESTINY ASTRAY Manga (4)

 * Gundam SEED C.E.73 ⊿ ASTRAY (1) Gundam SEED C.E.73 ⊿ ASTRAY (2)

 * Gundam SEED C.E.73 STARGAZER

Video games guide books
 * Gundam SEED video game Strategy Guide Gundam SEED friend GBA video game Strategy Guide Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Expert's Guide to Capture finish tomorrow Mobile Suit Gundam SEED VS.ZAFT Union Strategy Complete Guide
 * SEED DESTINY Complete Strategy Guide SEED DESTINY Gundam SEED DESTINY GENERATION of CE Expert Strategy Guide

art books?
 * Gundam SEED RGB ILLUSTRATIONS Gundam SEED RGB ILLUSTRATIONS "DESTINY"

Yonkoma adaptations
 * Gundam SEED SEED Club 4 piece SEED SEED Club 4 it is a piece SEED SEED Club 4 will be possible frame

Others, i don't know
 * Gundam SEED Photos JUSTICE: Aslan Gundam SEED Photos FREEDOM: Kira Gundam SEED Photos DESTINY: Kira Gundam SEED Photos DECISION: Aslan (posters books?)

 * Mobile Suit Gundam SEED featuring SUIT CD (I really don't get it with that item)

--KrebMarkt 09:42, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

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license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Mobile Suit Gundam SEED Destiny


text:
Category:Audi vehicles

This category contains automobiles sold under the Volkswagen Group marque, Audi.

title: Category:Audi vehicles


text:
Civil Air Transport

Civil Air Transport (CAT) was a Nationalist Chinese airline, later owned by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency (CIA), that supported United States covert operations throughout East and Southeast Asia. During the Cold War, missions consisted in assistance to "Free World" allies according to the Mutual Defense Assistance Act of 1949.

Origins
CAT was created by Claire Chennault and Whiting Willauer in 1946 as Chinese National Relief and Rehabilitation Administration (CNRRA) Air Transport. Using surplus World War II aircraft such as the C-47 Dakota and the C-46 Commando, CAT airlifted supplies and food into war-ravaged China. It was soon pressed into service to support Chiang Kai-shek and his Kuomintang forces in the civil war between them and the communists under Mao Zedong. Many of its first pilots were veterans of Chennault's World War II combat groups, popularly known as Flying Tigers. (Other of Chennault's veterans went on to form another air transport company, the Flying Tiger Line. This was a completely separate operation from Civil Air Transport and the follow-on Air America.)

By 1950, following the defeat of Chiang's forces and their retreat to Taiwan, the airline faced financial difficulties. The CIA formed a private Delaware corporation called Airdale Corporation, which formed a subsidiary called CAT, Inc. The subsidiary corporation purchased nominal shares of Civil Air Transport. CAT maintained a civilian appearance by flying scheduled passenger flights while simultaneously using other aircraft in its fleet to fly covert missions.

With the spread of communism throughout Southeast Asia, CAT's mission changed.

Chinese Civil War
During the Chinese Civil War, under contract with the Chinese Nationalist government and later the CIA, CAT flew supplies and ammunition into China to assist Kuomintang forces on the Chinese mainland, primarily using C-47 and C-46 aircraft. With the defeat of the Kuomintang in 1949, CAT helped to evacuate thousands of Chinese to Taiwan.

Korean War
During the Korean War, CAT airlifted thousands of tons of war materials to supply United States military operations, including support of Kuomintang holdouts based in Burma (Operation PAPER ). On 29 November 1952, a CAT C-47 left Seoul on a mission to collect an anti-Communist Chinese agent in the foothills of northeastern China, using a "pole and line" technique. The mission was apparently compromised and Chinese forces were waiting for them. Approaching low over the ground, it was attacked by small-arms fire, and crash-landed near the town of Antu in China's Jilin province. The pilots, Robert Snoddy and Norman Schwartz were killed during the crash and subsequent fire, and were buried nearby. The two CIA officers, John T. Downey and Richard G. Fecteau survived and were immediately taken prisoner by Chinese forces, who were waiting for the flight. Downey and Fecteau were held by China and regularly interrogated for nearly twenty years. Fecteau was released unexpectedly following Nixon's visit to China in 1972, but Downey was released only after Washington publicly acknowledged their spy mission in 1973.

At the time the families of the pilots were told, in order to keep the CIA's covert actions in China secret, that they had crashed into the Sea of Japan on a routine flight to Tokyo. In 2001, China allowed the US Defense Department's Prisoner of War and Missing in Action (POW/MIA) office to conduct a recovery effort for the bodies of the pilots. In 2005 the POW/MIA office announced that it had identified the remains of Robert Snoddy using DNA analysis. Schwartz's remains have not been recovered.

The 1952-1953 edition of Jane's All The World's Aircraft lists the head office address as Suite 309, Kass Building, 711 14th Street, N.W., Washington, D.C., with the footnote that the company had reregistered in the U.S. The president is given as Whiting Willauer, and the fleet listed as 23 Curtiss C-46 Commando and 4 Douglas DC-3 aircraft.

First Indochina War
On May 1, 1953, Operation Squaw began, calling for CAT to airdrop supplies to French troops besieged at Na Sam, Laos. This operation was the first U.S. involvement in what became the First Indochina War. CAT transported supplies and troops for French operations during Operation Castor in November 1953.

CAT assisted the French government at various times during its Indochina wars, flying supplies and equipment into Hanoi's Gia Lam airport and other fields using C-46 and C-47 transport planes.

Operation Squaw-II was approved on January 29, 1954, and, after negotiations with the French, a contract was signed on March 3 for CAT to supply 24 pilots to operate 12 C-119s. At the Battle of Dien Bien Phu, CAT supplied the French garrison by parachuting troops and supplies with covert USAF C-119 inscribed with French Air Force insignia. Two CAT pilots James B. McGovern Jr. and Wallace Buford were killed in action during the siege of Dien Bien Phu in May 1954. They were the first American casualties of what was later termed the Vietnam War. McGovern's remains were recovered in 2002 and identified in 2006. Seven surviving CAT pilots out of the thirty-seven involved in the battle received the French Legion of Honor in February 2005 during a special ceremony at the French embassy in Washington.

The 1956-1957 edition of Jane's All The World's Aircraft lists the head office address as 46 Chung Shan Road, North, 2nd Section, Taipei, Taiwan (Formosa). The president and general manager is given as Hugh L. Grundy, with C.J. Rosbert listed as vice-president and assistant general manager. The fleet is listed as 2 Douglas DC-4, 22 Curtiss Commando, 2 Douglas DC-3, 3 Douglas C-47, and 2 Convair Catalina.

In the 1958-1959 edition of Jane's, the last year in which the "Airlines of the World" section was carried, the home office address in Taiwan remained the same, but no company officers are listed. The fleet is given as 3 Douglas DC-4, 25 Curtiss C-46, 5 Douglas DC-3, 2 Convair Catalina, with 2 Douglas DC-6B on order.

PRRI/Permesta movement in Indonesia
In 1958 Time reported that 20 CAT aircraft were supplying the PRRI/Permesta movement against President Sukarno's government of Indonesia, which the Eisenhower administration feared had communist sympathies. In April 1958 two CAT pilots flew combat missions for Permesta's Angkatan Udara Revolusioner ("Revolutionary Air Force") or AUREV. William H. Beale and Allen Pope flew CIA Douglas B-26 Invaders for AUREV. In May, Beale withdrew from the operation, by which time a third CAT pilot, Connie W Seigrist, had joined flying a CIA Consolidated PBY Catalina. The CIA directed Beale and Pope to target not only Indonesian armed forces but also unarmed foreign merchant ships, in order to frighten overseas trade away from Indonesian waters, thereby weakening the Indonesian economy and undermining Sukarno's government. On April 28, 1958, Beale attacked the Royal Dutch Shell terminal at Balikpapan in East Kalimantan, sinking the British tanker MV San Flaviano, while Pope off the port of Donggala near Palu in Central Sulawesi sank merchant ships from Greece, Italy and Panama.

On May 18 west of Ambon Island, Pope attacked one of a pair of Indonesian merchant ships that were carrying government troops for a counter-offensive against Permesta. An Indonesian Air Force P-51 and anti-aircraft fire from the ships shot down the B-26, and Pope and his Indonesian radio operator were captured. The CIA had ordered the CAT pilots to fly "sterile", i.e. with no documents that could either identify them or link them with the US government. However, Pope was carrying about 30 documents including his detailed flight log, secret orders for temporary deployment in Indonesia, military separation file and CAT identity card. Pope's capture with these documents immediately exposed the level of CIA support for the Permesta rebellion. Embarrassed, the Eisenhower administration quickly ended CIA support for Permesta and withdrew its agents and remaining aircraft from AUREV.

Early in 1960 an Indonesian military court tried Pope; in April it convicted him and sentenced him to death. However, in 1962 Robert F. Kennedy negotiated with President Sukarno, and in August that year the Indonesian authorities released Pope and returned him to the US.

Vietnam War
In 1959, CAT was reorganized as Air America, which supported covert operations throughout Indochina during the Vietnam War (also known as the "Second Indochina War"), particularly in Laos. For further information see.

Post Vietnam War
After pulling out of South Vietnam in 1975, there was an attempt to keep a company presence in Thailand. After this fell through, Air America officially disbanded on June 30, 1976.

Civil operations
CAT started to operate scheduled passenger services, beginning with international flights to Hong Kong, then to Japan, South Korea, the Philippines and Thailand, as well as domestic routes within Taiwan. The granddaughter of Sun Yatsen, Nora Sun, became the youngest flight attendant to work for CAT.

The first flights were carried out with C-46, then C-54 Skymaster aircraft. In 1958, CAT inaugurated DC-6B services. In 1961, CAT started to operate a Convair 880M, becoming the first airline to operate pure jet scheduled passenger services on regional routes in the Far East. The Convair 880M was replaced by a Boeing 727 in January 1968. On 16 February 1968 the 727, flying from Hong Kong to Taipei, crashed near Linkou in northern Taiwan, ending 23 years of operations. The remnants of the cargo operation became Flying Tiger. Flying Tiger International merged to FedEx.

Accidents and incidents

 * 17 October 1947: A Douglas DC-3 crashed near Hopei AFB (30 mi SW of Baoding), killing the three crew. The aircraft was operating a Shijiazhuang-Peiping cargo flight and was loaded with cotton.
 * 29 July 1948: Curtiss C-46D XT-822 crashed at Qingdao Airport after reportedly entering a spin at 100 m after takeoff, killing all 19 on board.
 * 8 November 1949: Douglas C-47B XT-805 crashed 75 mi from Mengzi while en route to Haiphong, Vietnam.
 * 9 December 1949: Curtiss C-46D XT-820 struck a mountain near Lanzhou en route from Beijing, killing all 38 on board.
 * 10 December 1949: Curtiss C-46D XT-814 crashed at Haikou while on an evacuation flight from Chengdu to Haikou during the Chinese Civil War, killing 17 of 40 on board. Chengdu was under siege at the time.
 * 8 December 1950: Curtiss C-46 XT-44 crashed on landing at Yonpo Airfield, North Korea, killing a passenger.
 * 9 December 1950: Curtiss C-46F XT-852 struck the side of Mount Fuji at 8000 feet while en route to Korea, killing the three crew.
 * 29 November 1952: A Douglas C-47 was shot down and crashed in Jilin Province, killing two of four crew on board. The aircraft was on a mission to pick up a secret agent in China.
 * 6 May 1954: Fairchild C-119C 149 (ex 49-0149) crashed near Ban Sot, Laos, killing five of six crew, including pilot John P. McGovern and co-pilot Wallace A. Buford, the first American combat casualties in Vietnam. The aircraft was delivering an artillery piece to French troops at Dien Bien Phu when it was struck by Vietminh ground fire; one engine was lost to flak. The pilot managed to fly the aircraft 75 miles south into Laos and radioed another C-119 pilot for help in finding level ground. The crippled C-119 could hold out no longer, and it cartwheeled and crashed into a hillside near the Sang Ma River in Houaphanh Province. McGovern's remains were located in 2002 and identified in 2006.
 * 20 October 1954: Douglas C-47A B-811 crashed in the Gulf of Siam off Hua Hin, Thailand, killing six of seven on board. The aircraft, chartered by Sea Supply (a CIA operation) was practicing paratroop drops when a wingtip dipped.
 * 20 June 1964: Flight 106, a Curtiss C-46, crashed near the village of Shengang in Taichung City, killing all 57 people aboard. Among the dead were 20 Americans, one Briton and members of the Malaysian delegation to the 11th Film Festival in Asia, including businessman Loke Wan Tho and his wife Mavis. The pilot lost control while turning to return to the airport following a problem with the number one engine.
 * 16 February 1968:Flight 010, a Boeing 727-92C (B-1018), flew from Hong Kong to Taipei. Coming in to land at Taipei Songshan Airport, the plane failed to capture an ILS signal from the airport, and crashed near Linkou, killing 21 out of 52 passengers and crew, and one person on the ground.

Fleet

 * Curtiss C-46 Commando
 * Boeing B-17G Fortress
 * Douglas C-47 Skytrain
 * Douglas DC-4
 * Douglas DC-6
 * Convair 880
 * Boeing 727

Destinations

 * 🇭🇰 Kai Tak Airport
 * 🇯🇵 Naha Airport, Haneda Airport, Itami Airport
 * 🇵🇭 Ninoy Aquino International Airport
 * 🇰🇷 Gimpo International Airport
 * 🇹🇼 Songshan Airport, Tainan Airport, Taichung Shuinan Airport
 * 🇹🇭 Don Mueang International Airport

title: Civil Air Transport


text:
Talk:Irish neutrality

casualties
I believe the statement on Ireland suffering more casualties than any other country in the UK in this article is factually incorrect. According to statistics available on the web, Scotland suffered more fatalities (147,609) than the total number of Irishmen who volunteered from August 1914 to the end of the war (134,202).

 * This article, which is entirely the work of User:66.185.84.208, needs substantial work. It is full of inaccuracy - for example, there was no conscription in Ireland during World War I! User_talk:66.185.84.208 seems to have a history of vandalism, although it is a shared IP and the article does have *some* valid material amid the inaccuracy. Blorg 16:37, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Having read through it, I think it is likely to have been a school project that was donated to Wikipedia; I don't think there was an intention to defraud and the inaccuracies are probably due to inadequate research. I've fixed some of the problems but it still needs attention from someone more knowledgeable about Irish history. Blorg 17:04, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I've copy-edited and added sections and links etc. to the article, hopefully without significantly altering the meaning of the contents which I'm not knowledgable enough to re-write. On this basis, I've removed the 'clean-up' template and replaced it with 'disputed' as I consider this now more accurately reflects what still needs to be addressed in this article. I toyed with an 'attention' marker, but as other editors have commented on inaccuracy I settled on 'disputed' Valiantis 19:57, 12 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The current policy section seems rather politically motivated "Today, unlike Sweden, Switzerland and Japan, the Republic of Ireland is not officially a neutral country and could join any war it pleases." This is untrue, as for Ireland to participate in any UN missions it must have a UN Mandate from the Security Council (so this could technically allow Ireland to go to war, as the Korean war was technically speaking, a "UN War"), as well as approval from both houses of the Irish parliament.

Also, the mission in Liberia is a UN sanctioned peace enforcement mission. Whatever the political views one may take, Ireland is not in a position to unilaterally enter into any conflict (let alone humanitarian mission, with the "Triple Lock" in place).

Also, the section on the First World War is irrelevant, as the Irish state did not exist in 1914. I say both these sections should be removed, as both seem highly politically motivated.

I expanded this article, it was not a school project, nor did I at any stage say there was conscription in WWI that must have been added by someone else, when I started my changes WWI was already there, I agree it is not important.

I am not a member of any political party nor was my contribution politically motivated.

There is no law or declaration anywhere that says Ireland is a neutral state, and most neutral states do not allow other military forces to use their soil, Ireland does. Ireland also can support a war with UN approval, other neutral states are neutral in all circumstances.

Ireland does have the so called triple lock, this can be removed by law at any time, the constitution only requires the approval of Dail Eireann for war.

It's very important to note there is a substantial diffrence of opinion about Irish neutrality.

There are many political parties in Ireland who want the country to be neutral, they all have a diffrent idea of it.

I am about to make more changes.

 * I attempted some further edits, I hope they don't conflict. I do not consider the article remotely neutral yet. It is important that the article examine the nature of Irish neutrality, but also recognises that the matter is one for debate (the issue is suitably ambiguous on a number of points). The article should recognise that as far as official policy goes, Ireland is neutral. Even if the situation on the ground runs contrary to some common neutrality principles. zoney ♣ talk 19:42, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I believe much of the confusion about this entry (and the debate in Ireland over "Irish neutrality") comes from bundling being neutral with being non-aligned. Neutrality is something that only happens during a time of war, and it simply means that you're not a party to the conflict. You don't have to be non-aligned to be neutral in a given war. Example: Slovenia, a full member of NATO, was a neutral power during the recent Iraq war. It was a neutral power because it conformed more or less to the minimum international standards set out for non-participants (neutral powers) during a time of war in the Hague Convention (V) 1907 (they didn't allow US military overflights or refueling). Same for Turkey, another full member of NATO. Indeed, every state in the world is a "neutral" visavie every ongoing conflict to which it is not a party (attacking or being attacked). Some states have laws binding them to that posture (non-participation, neutrality) visavie particular conflicts or states (like Austria), and some have laws even binding them permanantly that way (like Switzerland or Turkmenistan). Ireland hasn't had any laws binding us to that posture since the Spanish Civil War (Non-intervention) Act 1937. Indeed, two recent Judicial Reviews (Horgan v Ireland 2003 and Dubsky v Ireland 2005) have confirmed the opposite: Ireland is not (ever!) obliged to conform to customary international law, and the minimum international standards of neutrality in particular. --Slackr 16:40, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I added I removed I modified Need to add some material on deV and the League of Nations and how that shaped neutrality. --ClemMcGann 00:35, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) that German sailors were also interned
 * 2) ‘guests of the nation’
 * 3) no declaration of war – unlike most of South America
 * 4) the shipping paragraph – I must do a separate article on this
 * 5) Belfast bombing
 * 6) Donegal corridor and Shannon
 * 1) ‘failed’ from the League of Nations, as that was not deV’s opinion.
 * 2) Franco and the book of condolence, as its not relevant
 * 3) Grey and his Derry question
 * 1) positions of German submarines were regularly reported to the Royal Navy through secret messages – there was no actual ‘reporting or ‘secret messages’ They just reported back to their base.  The British could hear.  They knew that the British were listening.  But the strict letter of neutrality was not broken

Dongeal corridor
As I said in an earlier version that got edited out, the Dongeal corridor was used by the RAF prior to the US entering the war, it was used by the recce plane that spotted the Bismarck. It must have been fairly common knowledge that they were overflying Donegal since it did not make sense to have a flying boat base on Lough Erne otherwise. PatGallacher 08:33, 2005 August 4 (UTC)

 * why was it removed? --194.125.111.194 10:30, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Iraq
"The Irish government did not take a position on the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, although most of the population were against it"

This is almost certainly true but there are no official statistics or sources cited to back it up. Perhaps it should be changed to "...although a majority of the population appeared to oppose it". It's a bit cumbersome but it's important to maintain the article as NPOV.Dmitry 21:05, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Insertions of "seemed/appeared", like the Passive of Non-Attribution, do not create neutrality in contexts where it does not already exist. If the remark were about public treatment in the press, however, it would gain some authenticity. --Wetman 02:52, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Current Events and meaning of "war"
I've removed the following statement from the Current Events section because it's unclear or untrue:

 * Today, in theory, Ireland could join any war it pleases, through an Act of the Oireachtas.

What does the author mean by "join any war"? Does "join" mean to send Irish troops? Does "any war" mean even a conflict which was not on all fours with the UN Charter and International Law (e.g. Iraq War)? Does "war" mean an armed conflict? Slackr 15:09, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Overriding McGann
Sorry I overrode User:Clem McGann but I was responding to my (and other editor's) work being overriden for no valid reason by User:Ali-oops. The fact is that there are varying and disputed estimates of Irish volunteers (from 50,000 to 300,000 that I have seen on the 'Net) and that must be borne in mind in any encyclopaedia. I deleted a reference to Irish Americans bringing America into the war in the event of another German attack on Belfast (or the Free State -- although the bombings in Dublin and Carlow which killed roughly 40 people have not been included in the article) as it is hypothetical and not entirely convincing since most of the supporters of American neutrality publicly rested their case against entering the war on the claim that there was no threat to American interests. I do not know if Irish Americans (despite their admitted clout and prodigious lobbying skills) could have done what was claimed so I deleted it.

Marylou 23:04, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Let the edit history for this article tell its own tale . Please stop removing content without first discussing here. For example, why did you remove this line;

 * "But neither could the government of Taoiseach Éamon de Valera bring itself to support [[Nazi Germany]"

 * The version you are reverting to contains a lot of POV. It's already been discussed on this talk page. If you don't know if a group of people did or didn't do something, it's probably best not to simply delete it but try to verify first. Furthermore, another editor has provided a reference which you saw fit to revert over. Why?

 * Nice to see, however, that you've discovered that talk pages are for more than complaining about editors! - Ali-oops✍ 23:14, 14 June 2006 (UTC)

"However many Irish ships were attacked by belligerents on both sides." Could we have more details or a reference for this? While I can see it would be easy for attacks to occur by accident, and I can even see the point of German U-boats attacking Irish boats (which could easily be bringing supplies to Britain) and then denying it, I can see absolutely no point for the Allies to deliberately attack Irish ships. I could be wrong of course. DJ Clayworth 18:02, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Oh, yes they did! I'm not saying that either side was instructed to attack neutral shipping, but individuals did.  For example, consider the Kerlogue with a cargo of coal bound for Cork.  1pm on 23rd October 1943 an RAAF (Royal Australian Air Force) flying boat circled overhead and departed. t 4pm two unidentified planes, without warning, dived out of the sun, firing cannon. The attack continued for twenty minutes. At 6pm the RAAF flying boat returned.  The Kerlogue signalled by lamp requesting medical assistance and escort; her lifeboats had been destroyed; she was taking on water; her radio and compass were destroyed.  The request was refused.  The RAAF did even pass on an SOS.  Through extradionary good fortune she made the 130 miles to Cork.  Britian denied any responsibility - until her cargo of coal was discharged, canon shell fragments were found.  They were of British manufacture. ClemMcGann 21:35, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 * If I keep going, This will be an article. ClemMcGann 21:35, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Dev's reply to Churchill
User 81.170.13.118 has mentioned Churchill's tirade against deV and deV's reply, referencing another wiki. The other wiki gives a short quote from deV's speech and incorrectly claim it to be complete. Quotations from Eamon deValera by Proinsias MacAonghusa isbn 08853426848 has a much longer extract. ClemMcGann 21:22, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Irish neutrality - sub heading Recent Conflicts
In the referenced sub heading (pasted below)the following statement is made: . As far as I have been able to determine, Ireland is not a member of the UN or a member of the UN Security Council. So I think this statement is erroneous. I will leave it up to someone else to correct this. teekey 17:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Recent conflicts Ireland supported the campaign known as Operation Allied Force, part of the Kosovo War, and the invasion of Afghanistan in response to the September 11, 2001 attacks known as Operation Enduring Freedom.

The Irish government did not take a position on the 2003 Invasion of Iraq, although most of the population were against it, and USAF planes were allowed to refuel at Shannon Airport even if they were on their way to Iraq. As a member of the UN Security Council, Ireland voted yes to Resolution 1441 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Teekey (talk • contribs)
 * Ireland was a member of the UN Security Council between 2001 and 2002 (List of elected members of the United Nations Security Council) and has been a member of the United Nations itself since 1955 (United Nations member states). Demiurge 18:12, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

Irish neutrality during World War II
The article Irish neutrality during World War II has been nominated for deletion. Please add your opinion to the discussion on AfD. --sony-youth pléigh 22:22, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Wherever it ends up, the World War II section of this article should be merged with any useful additions from User:Sony-youth's essay. The way, the truth, and the light 02:32, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

WWII Anti Semitic Apology ?
What a ridiculous piece of political correctness, What possible influence could Eire have made in the 1940's. The Irish State in the Emergency had no policy and no intent, either by design or accident that influenced the fate of the Jewish People in Germany, it seems en vogue these days for Governments around the world to apologise for something that they never  did. What Rubbish, over 3000 + FULLY INTEGRATED Irish Jews lived in and around Dublin during the war and none of these people were ever at the receiving end of any specific Irish Government Policy pertaining to their beliefs. in Fact they remain to this day Irish first and Jewish Second.

Utter tosh, remove please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.242.124.108 (talk) 10:37, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Objectively and in reply to the above I disagree. Had the Irish state allowed the allied nations the use of airstrips and ports then conceivably the Atlantic air gap COULD have be filled earlier and the transfer of men and materials across the Atlantic COULD have been faster and therefore France COULD have been invaded earlier. Each day of 1944 and 1945 was measured in tens of thousands of people killed and gassed. One could understand if the Jewish people held a grudge against any nation that did not actively help end the holocaust. After 1943-44 Ireland was in little risk from German invasion and therefore allowing the allies to use ports and airstrips for the protection of Atlantic convoys would have been a low risk move and COULD I stress could have helped the invasion of France to happen earlier. Therefore your question “What possible influence could Eire have made in the 1940's” I think Eire could have helped influence the situation. Sams37 (talk) 01:52, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

 * What utter crap. No one knew the holocaust was happening during the second world war apart from the Nazis themselves, so to say Ireland should have helped stop it is utter revisionist bullshit. You are looking from hindsight with all the known facts and applying your moral judgments when, for Ireland at the time, such moral judgments could not have been made. Also the "air gap" was extended by no more than a couple of hundred miles out of more than three thousand miles by Ireland's neutrality, so again nil points. There was no moral obligation on Ireland to take take any side during WW2, as far as the Irish were concerned it was just the big powers slugging it out and they were going to try and keep out of the way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.1.39.0 (talk) 23:28, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

Edited the WWII section of the Irish Neutrality article to add citations for some of the several sources easily located with a Google search referencing Michael McDowell's speech at the first Holocaust Memorial Day in Jaunary 2003 where he "apologised publicly for Ireland's acts of omission and commission at the time of the Holocaust." Lex20735 (talk) 17:58, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

The Independent. London (UK): Dec 17, 1999. pg. 2
"the severe mid- April 1941 raids on Belfast, which so taxed the Northern fire brigades that they perforce asked help from Dublin. Dublin sent up their resources to Belfast, breaking neutrality - the only instant in the War," -- 172.173.17.25 (talk) 08:51, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Delete the article?
The Article is so bad (full of inaccuracies and primary-school type commentary) that I think it shoule be deleted. Any support for this? Regards. Redking7 (talk) 21:15, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Not from me, though I agree it could co with improvement. Perhaps you can get a hold of the recent book That Neutral Island by Clare Wills, which has quite a lot of good info which I feel could help. I just don't have any time for this right now myself. ww2censor (talk) 21:47, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I sympathize with the despair. However that is not a reason to give up.  I'm reading "Guarding Neutral Ireland" by Michael Kennedy (he gave an excellent talk "U-boats in the Irish Sea", a month ago)  ClemMcGann (talk) 23:25, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Also try Censorship in Ireland, 1939-1945 by Donal Ó Drisceoil. I have this and must review it again to see if it is of use to us. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 00:04, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * As it stands it is so inaccurate that it is positively misleading. However, good luck with trying to improve it ClemMcGann. When you have done some work on it, I will no doubt come back and have another look....One thing I would mention for starters is that the opening line is most likely....Did the Irish Free State always have a neutral policy...I do not think so!....Regards. Redking7 (talk) 21:18, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I wasn't volunteering. Its not top of my list.  I agree with you, neutrality started late in 1939.  deV as president of the League of Nations offered Irish troops to take on the Italians in Abyssinia.   Another issue - the North Strand bombings - the Germans were just lost - the dumped their bombs to gain height to escape our anti-aircraft fire.  In the meantime in Dublin on Sunday 23rd and in Cork on the 30th remember those who died on Irish Ships during the Emergency. ClemMcGann (talk) 22:26, 5 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Winston Churchill later conceded that the raids might have been the result of a British invention which distorted Luftwaffe radio guidance beams.--Wgh001 (talk) 18:27, 10 March 2009 (UTC)

USSR/UN
"Ireland applied to join the United Nations in 1945, but this was blocked by the Soviet Union until 1955 because of the wartime policy of neutrality." If this is so, could some explanation be added as to why neutral Sweden joined the UN in 1946? 86.176.184.100 (talk) 18:38, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I have tagged that claim with citation needed. I'll add a dubious too. --Red King (talk) 00:47, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * afaik, Ireland was initially blocked because of neutrality - by UK & US. Later Ireland was blocked by USSR because they considered that Ireland would vote with the west.  cite required ClemMcGann (talk) 00:59, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * This seems like an "everybody knows". I've just been through a search of the National Archives for the Department of the Taoiseach (search term: 'United Nations'. Also 'United Nations, Organisation, Membership' in the full archive) and there is no reference to it. Unfortunately, the records are not in date order so the task is fairly painful.  If you think a search of the Dept of Foreign Affairs is worthwhile, then go ahead.  In the meantime, the conspiracy theory remains dubious. --Red King (talk) 18:29, 21 June 2010 (UTC)
 * "Until the mid-1950s. Ireland was excluded from the League's effective successor, the UN. because of a Soviet veto." - page 156 - Irish politics today - Neil Collins & Terry Cradden - Manchester University Press, 2001 - isbn 9780719061745 ClemMcGann (talk) 03:10, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Another: http://books.google.com/books?id=3bmvc0t_ODoC&pg=PA14 ClemMcGann (talk) 03:16, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
 * From the UN Security Council's 186 Meeting, 18th November 1947, page 2041:

 * "APPLICATION OF IRELAND

Mr. GROMYKO (Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) (translated from Russian) : In considering an application to admit a particular country to membership in the United Nations we must, of course, take into account the way that country behaved before, or especially during, the war ,years. In considering the behaviour of Ireland during the war years, we cannot fail to observe the following: As we all know, Ireland was on very good terms with the Axis Powers and gave no assistance whatever to the Allied nations in their struggle against the fascist States. Apart from this,Ireland has not and has never had normal relations with 'the USSR, whose part in the war against the aggressor States and in gaining victory over them is well known. For. these reasons the USSR delegation feels unable, again this year, to support the proposal that Ireland be admitted to the United Nations.

Sir Alexander CADOGAN (United Kingdom) : My comment on that is exactly the same as the comment I made on the application of the Mongolian People's Republic. The arguments used by the representative of the USSR are not new; they have been rebutted already. Neither of his principal arguments is really relevant because those are not the criteria in the Charter for the admission of a State to the United Nations."

Votes for: Australia, Belgium, Brazil, China, Colombia, France, Syria, United Kingdom, United , States of America. Vote against: Union of Soviet Socialist Republics. Abstention: Poland.

Found at: http://www.un.org/en/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=S/PV.186202.248.41.90 (talk) 00:44, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

NATO non-membership: dubious claim
I have tagged as dubious the claim that Ireland did not join NATO because the UK was a member and its dispute over the status of NI. This reads like somebody made it up. Non-membership of NATO was entirely consistent with the neutrality policy. Sweden took the same view. Unless somebody produces a citation very soon, I shall delete it. --Red King (talk) 00:47, 13 June 2010 (UTC)
 * i agree ClemMcGann (talk) 00:59, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

lolza ya didn't delete it..... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.83.224.244 (talk) 20:17, 16 June 2011 (UTC)

Added a citation re: the Dáil Éireann Debate Vol. 114 No. 3, 23 February 1949, about membership in the Atlantic Pact (NATO). The Irish Minister for External Affairs stated, in part, ″Partition is naturally and bitterly resented by the people of this country as a violation of Ireland's territorial integrity and as a denial in her case of the elementary democratic right of national self determination. As long as Partition lasts, any military alliance or commitment involving joint military action with the State responsible for Partition must be quite out of the question so far as Ireland is concerned. Any such commitment, if undertaken, would involve the prospect of civil conflict in this country in the event of a crisis.″ Lex20735 (talk) 19:54, 27 September 2015 (UTC)

Holocaust Memorial Day
Started moved section At ceremonies for the first Holocaust Memorial Day in Ireland, 26 January 2003, Justice Minister Michael McDowell openly apologised for an Irish wartime policy that was inspired by "a culture of muted anti-semitism in Ireland,"  which discouraged the immigration of thousands of Europe's threatened Jews. He said that "at an official level the Irish state was at best coldly polite and behind closed doors antipathetic, hostile and unfeeling toward the Jews".

End moved section

To facilitate the discussion I have moved the entire section out of the article to this talk page. I noticed today that an editor claimed that (s)he had checked the sources and that there was nothing dubious about this section. But I disagree with this. To my opinion this is a typical storm in a glass water, giving undue weight this subject. Most clear point is that it is based on sources unfit for this purpose, like an facebook page and an op-ed. And sorry, I can not find "TotallyJewish.com" in this case sufficiently independent.

i like to hear other opinions about this section. The Banner talk 21:08, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Good idea. Lugnad (talk) 01:56, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

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History
Were did ww2 happen in northern Ireland 109.76.57.99 (talk) 19:28, 26 May 2022 (UTC)

Concept section
"Adducing"? really? this is why there are less and less new editors, because of the unnecesary ever-increasing complexity of the language in articles. 66.81.170.3 (talk) 14:26, 22 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Irish neutrality


text:
Gallant Unit Citation

The Gallant Unit Citation (GUC), a United States Air Force and United States Space Force unit award, was approved in March 2004 and is awarded to any Air Force or Space Force unit which distinguishes itself by extraordinary heroism while engaged in armed combat with an enemy force on or after 11 September 2001.

Award Description
The GUC requires a lesser degree of gallantry, determination and esprit de corps than that required for the Presidential Unit Citation (PUC). The unit must have performed with marked distinction under difficult and hazardous conditions in accomplishing its mission so as to set it apart from and above other units participating in the same conflict. The degree of heroism required is the same as that which would warrant award of the Silver Star to an individual. The GUC will normally be earned by units that have participated in single or successive actions covering relatively brief time spans. Only on rare occasions will a unit larger than a group qualify for the GUC. Extended periods of combat duty or participation in a large number of operational missions, either air or ground, is not sufficient. Additional awards of the Gallant Unit Citation are denoted by oak leaf clusters.

Cited units
The only units to date that have received this award are the 621st Contingency Response Wing, 385th Air Expeditionary Group,352d Special Operations Group, the 332d Air Expeditionary Group, the 16th Operations Group (redesignated as the 1st Special Operations Group in 2006), the 720th Special Tactics Group, 74th Fighter Squadron and the 79th Fighter Generation Squadron, as well as units subordinate to each during the cited time frame.

 * Subordinate units to the 16th Operations Group receiving the award
 * 4th Special Operations Squadron
 * 6th Special Operations Squadron
 * 8th Special Operations Squadron
 * 9th Special Operations Squadron
 * 15th Special Operations Squadron
 * 16th Special Operations Squadron
 * 19th Special Operations Squadron
 * 20th Special Operations Squadron
 * 16th Operations Support Squadron
 * 16th Operations Group, Operating Location D
 * 919th Special Operations Group
 * 711th Special Operations Squadron
 * 919th Operations Support Squadron
 * 5th Special Operations Squadron
 * AFSOC Air Operations
 * Operating Location JM1 Air Force Element Medical
 * Air Force Element Medical DoD, Operating Location Special Operations Squadron

816th Expeditionary Airlift Squadron and 385th Expeditionary Airlift Group in support of Operation ALLIES REFUGE

title: Gallant Unit Citation


text:
User:Somegeek

Ever since I was a small child, I wanted to be an encyclopedia editor. And now I am one! Take that, all you English teachers who failed me. Now who's telling who to think what? Mua-hah-hah-haa!

I am often careless or lazy about logging in: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/216.75.170.81

title: User:Somegeek


text:
Expat (software)

Expat is a stream-oriented XML 1.0 parser library, written in C. As one of the first available open-source XML parsers, Expat has found a place in many open-source projects. Such projects include the Apache HTTP Server, Mozilla, Perl, Python and PHP. It is also bound in many other languages.

Timeline
Software developer James Clark released version 1.0 in 1998 while serving as technical lead on the XML Working Group at the World Wide Web Consortium. Clark released two more versions, 1.1 and 1.2, before turning the project over to a group led by Clark Cooper and Fred Drake in 2000. The new group released version 1.95.0 in September 2000 and continues to release new versions to incorporate bug fixes and enhancements.

Availability
GitHub hosts the Expat project. Versions exist for most major operating-systems.

Deployment
To use the Expat library, programs first register handler functions with Expat. When Expat parses an XML document, it calls the registered handlers as it finds relevant tokens in the input stream. These tokens and their associated handler calls are called events. Typically, programs register handler functions for XML element start or stop events and character events. Expat provides facilities for more sophisticated event handling such as XML Namespace declarations, processing instructions and DTD events.

Expat's parsing events resemble the events defined in the Simple API for XML (SAX), but Expat is not a SAX-compliant parser. Projects incorporating the Expat library often build SAX and possibly DOM parsers on top of Expat. While Expat is mainly a stream-based (push) parser, it supports stopping and restarting parsing at arbitrary times, thus making the implementation of a pull parser relatively easy as well.

title: Expat (software)


text:
Talk:Philoxenus Anicetus

Meaning
His name means "friend of foreigners", doesn't it? Can we ascertain some meaning from it or is it as meaningless as the "George Washington" in GW Bush?

An interesting thought! We simply don't know whether the Indo-Greek kings took coronation names which indicated aspects of their policies. The even later king Hippostratos has a name meaning "horse-ruler" and that is quite auguring for a ruler trying to rein in mounted nomad tribes. Then again, Hippostratus was probably a prince by birth whereas we know of no ancestors of Philoxenus. One could possibly - but it's a wild shot - associate the "foreign friends" in the latter name with the same nomads.

By the way, "George Washington" is IMHO not a meaningless name. The Bush family could - very roughly, but still - be compared to some kind of dynasts, and the name clearly shows that his father was an ambitious man who wanted to connect his son's name with his lineage as well as the patriotic past. --Sponsianus 19:32, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Coinage
Philoxenus Indo Greek square coin.  Per Honor et Gloria  ✍  07:20, 7 March 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Philoxenus Anicetus


text: User talk:63.130.192.177

title: User talk:63.130.192.177


text:
User talk:Somegeek

Welcome
Hello Somegeek, welcome to Wikipedia.

You might find these links helpful in editing pages or creating new ones: Tutorial, How to edit a page, Naming conventions, Manual of Style. You should probably read our policies at some point too.

But don't feel you have to read every policy document before you do anything. Dive in, be bold in editing, and if you do anything wrong, someone will be quick to correct it and let you know (hopefully, politely!)

If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my talk page. I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian (and sticking it to those English teachers!) --   ALargeElk | Talk 15:30, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hello!
Thanks for your question about terms for "Sovereingtists". I shall answer ASAP! I've already started writing something but I was busy and I want to have the time to give you the excellent answer your excellent question deserves. --Liberlogos 06:06, 30 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Separaveigntist
So! Indeed, the term "séparatiste" is rarely uttered in Quebec, neither by sovereigntists or federalists. The movement prefer "souverainiste" and, also, "indépendantiste". Bernard Landry stated once (about two years ago) that "separatist" was used excessively and unfairly in English and said that he "abhored" the word ("j'abhorre ce mot"). René Lévesque said, as early as 1968: "Separatist, word of rupture used in English, only while grinding one's teeth and to put an end to any discussion". Just in recent days, I read in the paper, in the opinion letters from the readers: "To demand independence should never more be considered a separation and an isolation with the objective of "Survivance" (Quebecois historical expression used in pre Quiet Revolution 20th century for the "survival" of the Quebec people and culture) but rather as the openness to the Other through the valorization of differences".

Federal-level ultra-federalist, of course, use the term when they want to scare people, but switch to "souverainiste" when, as Jean Chrétien, they are trying to get votes in the Saguenay region, for example. Stéphane Dion is also a quite a fan of another the word "sécessioniste", equally negative. However, people from the Liberal Party of Quebec use "souverainiste". This game of name-calling has been picked up by "unionists" in Scotland and I believe also by the corresponding Castilian (Spanish) people opposed to Basque and Catalan autonomists. The use of "separatist" focuses on "separation", something that is instinctively scareful and negative, as seems to assume that it is the primary goal of the movement. Sovereigntists most often see a declaration of independence not as a end in itself, but as a Way to achieve their ideals like, amongst many other things, to be considered with respect by Canada and the world as equals and to be heard by the international community and influence it towards more international social justice.

It reminds me of the term "French Canadian". It has been obsolete for fourty years in French-speaking Quebec but is still used in Canada. But too many Quebecers accept to speak of "Québec", of a "nation", of "souverainisme" while inside Quebec, but accept that others reflect a vision that is unrelated to their own reality once they are out of Quebec. I feel that the vision that others have of a society should conform to its reality inside. So since the word "séparatiste" is rarely used in French except by people that are the most opposed to the movement in the order to discredit it, I guess it is enough grounds to say it is biased. Thanks a lot for your excellent and respectful question. And viva User:Somegeek! :P --Liberlogos 03:39, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

GURPS Cyberpunk factual accuracy dispute
Hi, I noticed that you put a factual accuracy dispute notice in the GURPS Cyberpunk article, but did not explain the reasons and give background information on the talk page - it would be nice if you could do that. Thanks. :) -- Schnee (cheeks clone) 00:51, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

Garth Turner's blog and the Quebecois nation motion
Thank you for bringing my attention on Mr. Garth Turner's blog entries on the "Quebecois" nation (http://www.garth.ca/weblog/2006/11/22/quebec-nation-canada-nothing). I guess I showed a vision that is little present from debates in English Canada because of the language difference (outside antagonizing debates with federal politicians). I have a great affection for English-speaking America and English Canada and hope my interventions were frank and respectful. Your willingness, as that of any well-meaning Canadian, to have another (Quebec) point of view taken into account (and to treat it with respect) is appreciated by me and others. Do not hesitate in contacting me again for reasons you deem good. Cheers. --Liberlogos 02:46, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

saturnalia
I don't happen to have any of my books with me, so I can't give you exact years (if there are exact years). I would guess that the right answer is that it was held throughout most of roman history, excluding the last part. Novium 17:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

HST
Hi Somegeek,

I noticed a few of your edits on other articles. I noticed that the Harmonized Sales Tax article was pretty bare considering it's such a national topic of conversation. Would you mind helping me contribute to it? Thanks for your consideration! --Pdelongchamp (talk) 21:45, 5 December 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:Somegeek


text:
User:AndrewH

About Me
Hi,

I'm Andrew - from Rathfarnham, a suburb of Dublin, in Ireland.

Interests include, but aren't necessarily limited to;
 * Land Rovers
 * Cars
 * Motorbikes
 * Books
 * Science Fiction
 * Fantasy Fiction
 * Popular Science
 * Computers
 * PDAs

Also, I've a degree in mechanical engineering, which may be relevant to some of my contributions.

title: User:AndrewH