text:
Talk:Toyota AE86

Initial D reference
I was going to add a comment about its popularity thanks to Initial D, but then saw there was a little bit of drama over a popular culture section. This article definitely needs a mention of Initial D, as the car has become something of an icon because of it. Objections? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dashren2001 (talk • contribs) 17:19, 9 November 2009 (UTC)

Literally everyone I know who has ever heard of this car, heard of it because of Initial D. I can understand a general reluctance to clutter up articles with endless pop culture trivia, but there's a certain point where it becomes almost irresponsible not to mention certain appearances. Would a one-line pop culture section really cause any problems for anyone reading the article? I don't imagine it would, anyway. TDude695 (talk) 20:43, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

Article Moved
I've moved the article to "Toyota AE86" instead of "Toyota AE86 Sprinter Trueno", it more accurately describes the content of the article. --Jeff Lange 08:51, 14 March 2006 (GMT-7)

Specs/Year Changes Added
I've added my list of specs and year changes for North American AE86's. I'd also like to propose a name change for the article to simply "Toyota AE86" as the article deals with all AE86's, not the Japan-specific Sprinter Trueno. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeff Lange (talk • contribs) Feburary 17, 2006

 * I agree, "Toyota AE86" would certainly fit the article better. --WEKS 19:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I would recommend to get the Specs and year changes into one table. It would make this article smaller (in length) and a clearer arrangement. There could also be added the Japanese Models and some infos, if available. Ainawing 12:54, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Older Comments
I just wanted to add some additional information about the car. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SeamusRedux (talk • contribs) July 18, 2004

I don't like how this article likens the car to Skylines, Lancers, and the like because it _doesn't_. For a sub-200hp car it's remarkably quick, but nowhere outside of a work of fiction would it be competant stock for stock with either cars. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.168.109.94 (talk • contribs) June 9, 2005
 * I've got to agree with you on this. I think the last paragraph seems to be a case of trying to compare the cars with its peers. It is not in the same league as those cars mentioned. Editing to remove references to those vehicles in the last paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anggarda (talk • contribs) June 16, 2005

Whoever wrote that got alot of info incorrect. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.3.146.47 (talk • contribs) October 5, 2005

Rewrite
In my opinion this article needs, if not a content rewrite, than certainly a sweeping reorganization. It reads like an homage, in many areas, so NPOV is an issue, and I think readability could be inproved significantly by breaking it into sections. I'll take a crack at it, unfortunately, I can only verify factual errors as reliably as google can guide me. Fox1 18:42, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

The organization of the information seems wrong some how (mainly within the technical section).

I will rewrite and organize some of it later, I made a few small changes.

- Jeff Lange

I agree on a rewrite, why single out the other AEs before and after it (AE92, AE111, etc), if not, merge it onto Toyota Corolla. WilliRennen 18:42, 12 Jan 2006 (UTC)

 * Don't merge this with Toyota Corolla. The car is unique in both its sport heritage and its drivetrain. It should be kept separate for the same reason that Subaru Impreza STi is kept separate from Subaru Impreza.  It's legendary sports car versus family sedan, and it would be hard to make generalizations within Toyota Corolla since the AE86 is so much different from the other Corolla models.

 * Better, how about write a new article called Toyota Corolla Levin, which covers all Levins and Truenos made between the '70s 'til the '90s having all being a sporting models and all models made before AE86 were rwds and graft the AE86 article into it. Literally asking why alienate all other Levins and Truenos by writing just an article on AE86s. BTW, the article about the Porsche 911 Carrera RS has being merged into the Porsche 911 article. WilliRennen 14:00, 12 Feb 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree, the "Hachi-Roku" is certainly famous enough to warrant a separate article, so keep it this way --WEKS 19:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I think that the page title should be kept as Toyota AE86 or (Toyota) Corolla AE86. This particular model is very different from the other AE bodies that followed it (in that it is an FR).  I do not share the same feelings for the Impreza, though I do recognize that the STi is considerably more potent than it's family-sedan siblings.  The Corolla AE86 (Levin, Trueno, Sprinter, GTS, SR5, Apex, etc.) has established itself over the course of 25 years, and deserves its own page.  Perhaps an idea to better satisfy the Subaru fan would be to create a page on STi (Subaru Technica International), just as the Toyota fan would favor a page for TRD (Toyota Racing Development).  This is not to say that the page shouldn't be cleaned up and/or rewritten, just to say that the AE86 is deserving of its own page. --jclark 1512 EST, 2 FEB 2008

Clearing Up
This following sentence requires rewording: "The Shuichi Shigeno version differs in that its max RPM is 11,000 rpm, it has a light weight reduction (carbon fiber hood), and it is somewhat akin to the re-engined AE86 in Initial D Stage 2, Taito's Japanese Racer, Battle Gear and Genki's Shutokou Battle (1999), have the "Tuned" AE86 Trueno, that is the "Takumi Fujiwara" (the protagonist of Initial D) Trueno GT Apex AE86."

Is the italic text supposed to make sense?

Imported bits
These are the following bits from the Initial D real-life locations and popularity as they have some revelance to this aricle. These are the following that have now been moved in ....

 * Three years prior to Initial D, in one of Shigeno's earlier works Tunnel nuketara Sky Blue, the lead character Toshihiko, like Takumi, an 18 year old senior high school student also drives an AE86 Sprinter Trueno.
 * Dear Boys on episode 14 the main character went on a date with a girl to go watch a movie. They were watching Initial D Fourth Stage where Takumi's Eight-Six overtakes Tohru's Roadster over the gutter at Momiji Lane. Ironically, this 30 second clip was the prototype cel-shading used on Battlestage as 4th Stage anime hasn't been released yet to the public at the time (this series released in 2003 and Fourth Stage in 2004).
 * School Rumble episode 01, where the Eight-Six is being outrunned by the three main characters of Tenma, Karasuma, and Harime Kenji riding their schoolbikes through a corner. Rather than having the Eight-Six called "Fujiwara Tofu Ten", in School Rumble it is called "Kobayashi Tofu Ten".
 * Miami Guns episode 04, of a police car that uses an Eight-Six as the chaser in Miami also with the same Panda coloured pattern.
 * Capeta episode 01 shows a brief glimps of an Eight-Six. This is an example of how often an Eight-Six is referred. Also, in episode 3, while Capeta's father is working on a Hachi-Roku on the road.
 * Transformers in one of their animes shows (the Energon series) an Eight-Six is seen from the distance complete with a carbon fibre hood, although it was never specified if this was a transformable autobot since it was getting a carwash from another autobot.
 * The Jrock group M.O.V.E. (Yuri, Motsu, and T-Kimura) who has always done all the official opening songs and most of the closing songs for Initial D has made a "Initial D" related music video called "Freaky Planet". where T-Kimura is driving through a mountain pass, or touge, with Yuri in his passnger seat and Motsu sitting at the back. As they drive, the Eight-Six now with a carbon hood, crosses their paths repeatedly.
 * Although there are more anime and manga related findings of Initial D, the Eight-Six can be found in other animes. Such titles to name a few include Ex-Driver, Tenjou Tenge, Over Rev, Azumanga Daioh or FLCL.
 * Beck (manga) features a scene where Saitou is rushing Koyuki to the Airport to see Maho off and Saitou is driving extremely fast on the highway and he overtakes the Initial Eight-Six.Willirennen 15:00, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Massive Cleanup Needed
I see --~ in many places, and portions of the "pop culture" look extremely messy. I'll leave it to people more familar with the article before I go in and clean it up myself. --293.xx.xxx.xx 01:08, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Extremely badly written, in some places gibberish. --Dustek 15:51, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I worked it over—how does it look to you now? DocWatson42 07:33, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

too 'americanized' ?
I think North American individual car specs shouldnt be listed as titles in the menu. Perhaps just have then as sub headings and then include things like JDM Levin/Kouki Sepcs / European Specs / Australia / UK... etc —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hr4lifeyo (talk • contribs) 08:41, 21 January 2007 (UTC).
 * +1 should be reworked Diskovod (talk) 18:26, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * i agree it should be rewritten from scratch to make the japanese models specifications the base (which they were) then show the localised versions (usa, eu, australia) Ae86forlife (talk) 03:29, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Connection between AE86 and Altezza
I read once in one issue somewhere in 1999 of Car magazine, that the man who also was behind the engineering side of the Altezza was also behind the AE86 and has a framed photo that said car in his office, what is his name as what was his role with both cars. Willirennen 19:22, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

That is true, I saw that in the article of the Is250 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hposda (talk • contribs) 22:37, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Toyota's Sports Compact Concept: new AE86?
Hey, my added information kept getting deleted for speculations. Those news of a new sports compact, rear-wheel drive concept from Toyota is actually in the works. News come to our magazines and car press aren't up to date and naturally lag behind that to the Japanese.

Other trueno/levin
I think this article should be edited to include all trueno/levin models (ae92,ae101,ae111 etc.) The AE86 wasnt the only model. This page is also cluttered with insignificant information about the US model changes, i think should be removed. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

a new ae86 will come —Preceding unsigned comment added by 201.43.146.214 (talk) 00:09, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Article split
I don't feel that this article is named properly. It should be split into separate articles for each model rather than an entire chassis. i.e. Split into Toyota Corolla, Toyota Levin, and Toyota Sprinter Trueno. Toyota AE86 should then be made a disambiguation page which includes links to those articles. Please vote on it. —Mr Grim Reaper (talk • contribs • email), 17:00, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The Levin has always been named officially as Toyota Corolla Levin, one issue I always raised with that decision to split the page what about the other models that used these names, for example Toyota AE92, Toyota AE101 and so on. Because of the cars high notability, it simply has its article. The disambiguation page should be called Toyota Corolla Levin/Sprinter Trueno to highlight these versions. Willirennen 21:56, 20 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, articles should be named by car name, not by chassis code. Chassis code may be used within the properly named articles (e.g. generations.) —Mr Grim Reaper (talk • contribs • email), 02:35, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess these cars are mostly owned by car enthusiasts these days. And among car enthusiasts, I guess the car is mostly known as the AE86. So, I suppose Toyota AE86 is a proper article name according to WP:UCN. --Boivie 17:52, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I do not feel that naming it Toyota AE86 would follow according to WP:UCN. Many also know these cars as Levins and Sprinter Truenos, and those are the proper names of these cars. —Mr Grim Reaper (talk • contribs • email), 18:18, 21 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The AE86 was sold under many different names around the world, the main difference between models being the engine and/or the headlights. Toyota (outside of Japan -- encompassing Europe, Australia, and North America), calls the car the "Toyota Corolla Coupe", and trim level variations lie therein. I think naming the article Toyota Corolla Coupe and including that it was called "Corolla GT, Corolla GT-S, Corolla SR5, Corolla Levin, Sprinter Trueno" in various markets would probably be the best option. Especially when this article also includes the AE85. The issue that arises with doing that however is that there are plenty of other cars that are considered Corolla Coupes. The AE92, etc, as well as some newer cars. Not sure what the best way to name the article is. Jeff lange 21:37, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Greetings. The single most defining characteristic of this Corolla is that it is the last RWD (Rear Wheel Drive) Corolla. While previous generations had RWD, the AE85 [Japan] had a much improved engine, the 4A-C [see Toyota Corolla article], and the AE86 had an even better engine (4A-GE) with as much as a 20% increase in HP. This is the main reason the AE86/AE85 was singled out and subsequently became popular to motor'ng enthusiasts.  It also so happens that the designation AE86 cover most of the variations of this particular Corolla configuration (i.e. RWD + good engine).  Because the car is sold under numerous names and configurations in different countries, it turns out that the most elegant way to refer to this configuration is by the chassis code - which happen to be AE86 [and AE88 in US]. I end with a smiley face =D --Goagogo 06:33, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * AE86 is the chassis code in the US period. You're confusing the SR-5 designated VIN subsection (AE86) and the GTS designated VIN subsection (AE88).  They both have Chassis Code AE86.  The VIN is set up differently, though containing similar data.  The VIN has engine specific data, the chassis code does not. --Vaevictus  18:00,   27 March 2008 (EST)  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.251.27.199 (talk)
 * "AE86 is the chassis code in the US period" - nooope, it's AE88 for US spec, dude Diskovod (talk) 18:24, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Alternatively, it may sound too ambigious, this page could be named Toyota Corolla Levin and Sprinter Trueno AE8(tysomething), at least it would solve all arguments. Willirennen 19:10, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Hey, I think it should be Toyota AE86 (Levin) and Toyota AE86 (Trueno), what do you think? Diskovod (talk) 18:24, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
 * It doesn't make sense to have just this car named under its chassis code, and not others. The cars should all have their own articles based on model name, i.e. Toyota Corolla and Toyota Sprinter, with the Levin and Trueno under each, respectively. The Corolla and Sprinter both extend beyond the AE86 chassis, thus it's unsuitable for them to redirect to solely one chassis. A disambiguation page named Toyota AE86 may be used to link to both sections of each respective car's article. —Mr. Grim Reaper at 23:37, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

 * The problem is that the AE86 was known by many different models and grades across the world, It should be Toyota Corolla Levin/Sprinter Trueno (AE86). this is because the original release in Japan, the original country of manufacture, should be the master naming convention. GT-S GT SR-5 etcetc are localised renamed badges for these 2 cars. Ae86forlife (talk) 03:37, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Random public visitors opinion
Please move this page to combine with the toyota sprinter, I had fair amount of trouble finding it and was amazed to find it listed under its chassis code rather than model name, they were all sprinters, levin and trueno. So why are they not listed under toyota sprinter?

Relation with A60 Carina?
http://www.driver.ie/forum/showthread.php?t=35419&highlight=carina

The above suggests the A60 Carina shares a significant amount of parts with the AE86. Could this suggest that the AE86 is more related to the A60 Carina (which was also still RWD) than the E80 Corolla/Sprinter? --Zilog Jones (talk) 21:22, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

 * no. It isn't anything to do with the carina. a lot of toyota models share components so it is irrelevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ae86forlife (talk • contribs) 03:39, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Adding External Links
when adding links be courteous and add them AFTER existing links.

i have edited some additions to reflect this. Ae86forlife (talk) 14:56, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

i have again edited some recent additions.. have some respect Ae86forlife (talk) 12:57, 13 November 2008 (UTC)

again, it seems some people think certain sites are exempt from this rule? (edited) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ae86forlife (talk • contribs) 14:31, 1 April 2009 (UTC)

Reintroduction by FT-86
Does this really deserve such a big section? The FT-86 is only a concept car, not a production car. It is not directly related to the AE86 except for the number in the name, being RWD in a world of FWD and fulfilling the same market niche (if it became a production car). This section also duplicates a lot of the information at Toyota FT-86 Concept and Toyota FT-86 G Sports Concept. Wouldn't a single paragraph detailing the spiritual link (ie RWD and same market niche) and with links to those 2 articles be enough?  Stepho  (talk) 05:21, 3 February 2010 (UTC)

N.American Chassis code vs VIN
Every now and then someone from N.America edits the article to say that the AE85 has the 4A-C engine, the AE86 has the 4A-GE and the AE88 has the 4A-GE engine with GTS trim. But these 85/86/88 codes are taken from the N.American specific VIN - which is treated as the one and only identifier by them. However, the chassis code on the build plate on the firewall in the engine bay still says AE86 for every 80 series Corolla with a 4A series engine (4A-C, 4A-GE) - just like it does for every other country outside of America. Likewise, every single 80 Series Corolla with a 3A engine is an AE85 - no AE85 (going by chassis code, not VIN) ever had a 4A engine. Can anybody think of a good way to word this. I've got both the chassis and VIN codes for the US models but it will take some time to copy it from microfiche? Japanese models are here: AE85/86 chassis codes  Stepho   (talk) 10:18, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

I've just repaired the damage after another American confused the VIN AE88 with the chassis code AE86. This image of a N.American GTS build plate might help to show where the confusion comes from: Can anybody think of a better way to make it clear that the VIN and chassis code are different for a N.American GTS?  Stepho  talk
 * http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-P4jamHVq6x4/UNiYvCYvB4I/AAAAAAAAARI/MRYFnvfzU-w/s1600/Stinkin%27+Badges+001.jpg
 * http://1985ae86hatchback.blogspot.com.au/2011/03/my-1985-toyota-corolla-gts-hatchback.html

east west gearbox conversion
Is it possible to convert the front wheel drive gear box to a rear wheel drive set up?

HK — Preceding unsigned comment added by 136.153.2.2 (talk) 04:54, 17 January 2012 (UTC)
 * The AE86 is already rear wheel drive. -- Daniel 04:57, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Do you mean that you want to convert a FWD AE82 to RWD? It can be done if you want to re-engineer the chassis frame around the engine, add a transmission tunnel, re-engineer the rear suspension and a hundred other little details. Budget on $20,000 and a lot of time. More realistically - no, its too hard.  Stepho  talk 07:49, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

Reasons for high resale value
An anon IP has been deleting the paragraph that claims Initial D was the reason for the AE86's high resale value. The supporting reference says "The direct result of this was that cars featured in Initial D, and particularly the AE86, began climbing in price".

My own theory is that the AE86 was the last of the cheap, lightweight RWD cars. Combined with a good engine that could be upgraded to a later version (eg 20-valve), it was the last of the affordable performance Toyotas. After the 86, the FWD Corollas just didn't have the same handling. The Supra, Soarer, Cressida and Crown were just too big to be decent handlers. The GT4 (All Trac) Celica with turbo and 4WD was good but cost much more than the AE86. Leaving the AE86 to fill that niche. Comments?  Stepho  talk 02:32, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Toyota AE86. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070513090700/http://www.aeu86.org/index/technical-technical-faq/cat/9/topic%3D4146 to http://www.aeu86.org/index/technical-technical-faq/cat/9/topic%3D4146
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120115211753/http://www.freewebs.com/initial-d_world/characters.htm to http://www.freewebs.com/initial-d_world/characters.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 13:54, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Toyota AE86


text:
User talk:SwiftD

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Here are some links I thought useful:

 * Tutorial
 * Help desk
 * Policy Library
 * Utilities
 * Cite your sources
 * Verifiability
 * Wikiquette
 * Civility
 * Conflict resolution
 * Brilliant prose
 * Neutral point of view
 * Pages needing attention
 * Peer review
 * Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense
 * Village pump
 * Boilerplate text
 * IRC channel
 * Mailing lists
 * Current polls

Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, likes this: ~.

Cheers, Sam [Spade] 06:53, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:SwiftD


text:
User talk:Rspeer

I was a Wikipedia admin from 2004 to 2020, at which point I lost the admin tools for inactivity.

I will say, as I have said for decades, that Wikipedia's obsession with edit counts is pointless and harmful, and "government by the loudest" is no way to run a community.

Editor experience invitation
Hi Rspeer. I noticed you haven't edited for a few months but I once took a break for a year so this doesn't necessarily mean you won't come back. Anyways, I'm looking for experienced editors to interview here. There's no deadline so feel free to take your time. Also feel free to pass if you're not interested. If you're curious about how I came across you, I was reading an old RfA where an essay of yours about editcountitis was linked. I also have some thoughts about that if you ever wish to give it a read. Regardless I wish you the best, Clovermoss 🍀  (talk) 00:37, 20 July 2024 (UTC)

title: User talk:Rspeer


text:
User talk:SeamusRedux

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Hope you like it here, and stick around.

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * To sign your posts (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).
 * Try the Tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the test area.
 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk
 * Follow the Simplified Ruleset
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Remember Neutral point of view
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck!

title: User talk:SeamusRedux


text:
Talk:Son Goku

Space uniform
I saw Gokuh on his space uniform while he was replacing the plate with glue on the spaceship gravity chamber while going to Namek. Also, there should be a picture added in here. People need to be aware of the great show that changed a lot of people's lives. --Cyberman 03:17, 7 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Should I make a note of this?

"The name is often misromanized as Son Gokou" (And indeed it is; I've seen that on the net) WhisperToMe 06:56, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

There is also a Son Goku (Dragon Ball) article (longer)! Marc Mongenet 01:36, 2004 Jul 23 (UTC)

Merge...
This "article" about the Japanese pronunciation of the name of a character in a Chinese novel seems to be entirely and anime/manga disambig page that goes into too much detail. The interwiki links to Dutch, Japanese and Portuguese Wikipedias deal with the Dragon Ball character, the Chinese legend and the Dragon Ball character, respectively. Either it should be merged (although simply making to redirect would be just as good) into Sun Wukong or Son Goku (Dragon Ball) should be merged here, as it concerns the overwhelmingly more common use of the term in English. If no one presents any arguments against me, I will go ahead and make this page into a redirect in 1 week (if I remember). elvenscout742 15:03, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Perhaps a better merge might be "Son Goku" into "Son Wukong", since those two are related, whereas "Son Goku (Dragon Ball)" is not. Deleting the "Son Goku" article is another solution, of course. Daishokaioshin 06:08, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

 * The pages shouldn't be merged at all, leave them as they are. Son of Kong 1:44 AM

 * Hmm, I see your point, Elvenscout, but at the same time, looking at the Son Goku (Dragon Ball) article, I'm still not convinced that a merge would necessarily be a good idea. The Goku DBZ article is already enormous as is, and I think merging the content of this article would only serve to disrupt its focus on the singular DBZ character to a much more general article on anime characters using the name "Son Goku," but spending the majority of the discussion on the famous DBZ character.  While the article here is certainly, as you say, more or less an overly long disambiguation page, I think it serves its function in informing the reader on the larger history behind the name "Son Goku" without disrupting the focus of the DBZ Son Goku article.  Thus, I would recommend keeping things as is.

(Edit: Actually, Daishokaioshin may have the right idea with merging "Son Goku" into "Son Wukong," and then just making Son Goku redirect appropriately.) Ridan Krad 10:32 AM, 4 April 2006 (PST)

The Sun Wukong article makes mention of what's in this article, to a lesser degree, and with inks to appropriate articles. I think this article doesn't really need to exist. Onikage725 21:45, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I believe that this article should be merged with Sun Wukong, NOT the one in Dragon Ball. The reason being is that, while Goku from DBZ is an anime character, Sun Goku and Sun Wukong are essentially the same character, just pronounced in different names in the Japanese version. Does Wikipedia need an article for EVERY Japanese word, even if it is a proper noun of an existing article? I don't think so. Observation 08:36, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

 * I have proposed a merge of this page into Sun Wukong, with the reasons given by Elvenscout742 above. ian-Kiu-Biu 06:20, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

 * i agree with the merge, as to the reasons given by Observation
 * Z3u2 22:39, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

 * I've removed the merge tag. After going through the contents of this article and the Sun Wukong article, I suggest renaming this article to Son Goku (Saiyuki), making it parallel to Cho Hakkai (Saiyuki) and Son Goku (Dragon Ball). The Alakzam the Great stuff, among others, should be removed, for the reasons given by Onikage725 above. ian-Kiu 06:48, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

I have merged the son goku stuff over there, this page have no reason to stay, with no ref. If ever a new page should be created, it should be Other Fictional appearance of Sun Wukong or Series referencing Sun Wukong with the whole list there moved to the new page. MythSearchertalk 17:29, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

A Worm in Journey to the West
Something is wrong with the page about Journey to the West. Whenever I try to access it, my computer says that a worm attempted to access my computer. After that, the pictures on Wikipedia don't load properly unless I restart my computer. I would put this comment on on The Journey to the West page, but I'm scared that going back to it might mess up my computer. Its possible that there might just be something wrong with my computer, but I think someone should should check the Journey to the West page and make sure that its working properly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 151.196.242.114 (talk • contribs).
 * I had no problem with the page. Note that I am under Linux, with Firewall but without antivirus, so I can't guess what is triggering such alarm. -- ReyBrujo 03:46, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

Goku redirect dispute
Just recently, the redirect page (Goku) was redirected to this article. I think it would be most suitable if Goku was redirected to Son Goku (Dragon Ball) instead of Son Goku because most of the articles that link to the Goku redirect page is intended for Son Goku (Dragon Ball) only, not several other characters named Son Goku. Just look at what links to Goku - most (if not all) pages that link to Goku is intended for the Dragon Ball Goku only. S GF  F  (If  you're  stressed, then count to ten and have a cup of  coffee  with Esperanza.) 01:47, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

Picture
Hopefully it changes by the time you read this but out of all the amazing pictures and shots of goku in 276 episodes of DBZ alone, this one doesn't even look like him. He's wearing a plain blue shirt which he never does, his neck is fat and wide like he has a thyroid problem, thats not how he usually looks, and it looks like Puar's ear or something in in the picture. Please someone find me a good picture, i'll look for one i dont' care just that has to get changed.

Monkey King
The thing is that the Monkey King (i.e. the character from the original Classical Chinese novel Journey to the West) is called/named "Son Goku" in Japanese. (If you look at the Monkey King page, and look on the right where it gives his name in hiragana, it reads "son gokuu".)

See also, for instance, this item from the Museum of Fine Arts in Boston. There are many other such examples: here is a Yoshitoshi print from 1882 with Son Goku in it.

So it's entirely reasonable to include the Wikipedia article about that character (The Monkey King) as one possible meaning for "Son Goku". Now, the page about that character happens to be filed under Sun Wukong - the Chinese name for that character; but there's nothing I can do about that. (And that's probably the right call anyway, since that is the character's name in the original language of the original novel.)

Anyway, someone who's looking at that MFA item, or that print, or any of a vast number of similar Japanese items, and wants to know who "Songoku" is, and comes here to this page is not likely (unless they happen to know classical Chinese literature well - i.e. not likely) to recognize that a "See Also" entry for "Sun Wukong" is anything to do with the "Son Goku" they are looking for.

Hence my entry:

 * Son Goku The Monkey King (Sun Wukong in Chinese)

which seemed to me to be the best way to deal with the fact that one meaning of "Son Goku" is the Monkey King character from 'Journey to the West' - and link to the Wikipedia page for that character.

Your edit comment "this goes against the very essence of MoS:DAB" is rather ironic, in light of this extract from MoS:DAB:

"''for every style recommendation above, there may be pages in which a good reason exists to use another way; so ignore these guidelines if doing so will be more helpful to readers than following them."

It would seem to me that the entry I added is precisely "more helpful to readers", for the reasons given above - because Sun Goku really is his name. Noel (talk) 03:56, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Although I didn't agree with his revert, the policy seemed pretty solid at the time. But now that you have pointed this out, there is not reason why it shouldn't be changed back. I'll do that right now —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ghostexorcist (talk • contribs)

 * I'm not trying to start a fight here. When it comes to disambiguation, I am a stickler for the rules. Does it look better now? We can't mask links like Jnc did before, that's why I have made a compromised edit just now. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 22:25, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Doing it with the redirect works fine for me.

 * PS: In general, being an absolute stickler for the rules inevitably winds up doing something silly - like sending a person for jail for life for stealing a $.50 candy bar. Common sense really is needed to limit the application of any rule - as the MoS:DAB specifically calls for. Noel (talk) 05:18, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Sorry for barging in, but shouldn't the entry be more specific that it is the Japanese pronunciation of the kanji for Sun Wukong? The or seems to be rather odd in describing something that should be the origin of the two. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  01:09, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Not for disambiguation pages, which are only used for navigational purposes. Leave explanations to the articles. Lord Sesshomaru (talk • edits) 01:20, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

 * I mean something like * Son Goku (Journey to the West) Japanese pronunciation of Sun Wukong, the main character in Journey to the West media. —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk 03:29, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure I'd call it a "pronunciation". The thing is that the same ideogram may be read completely differently in Chinese and Japanese, just like the symbol "3" is read 'three' in English, and 'trois' in French - I wouldn't really call that a 'different pronunciation'. It's the exact same thing with Chinese and Japanese - a given character can mean the same thing in both languages, but stand for completely different words. Noel (talk) 05:18, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

 * This is the same character (the monkey king) and is originated in China, it should be rather safe to call it a Japanese pronunciation of the kanji(or more accurate, Chinese characters in this case). —Preceding signed comment added by MythSearchertalk  06:33, 23 February 2010 (UTC)

 * Only if you think "trois" is the 'pronuciation' of "3" in French... Most people would consider 'three' and 'trois' to be separate words (albeit ones with the same meaning); it's not a pronunciation difference. Similarly, the ideogram 三 ("three") is read as 'san' in Chinese (roughly; I'm not showing the tonal stuff), but 'mi' in Japanese.
 * Oh, and the names of many of the entities in Journey to the West are written with slightly different characters in Japanese and Chinese. Although many (most?) characters are the same (graphically) in Japanese and Chinese, there are some that differ (i.e. there are kanji characters which do not exist in written Chinese) - and also some which are the same graphically, but have different meanings! Kanji and Chinese characters are not, in fact, exactly the same thing.... Noel (talk) 17:57, 27 June 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Son Goku


text:
Hagen (legend)

Hagen (German form) or Högni (Old Norse Hǫgni, often anglicized as Hogni, Old English Hagena, Latin Hagano) is a Burgundian warrior in Germanic heroic legend about the Burgundian kingdom at Worms. Hagen is often identified as a brother or half-brother of King Gunther (Old Norse Gunnarr). In the Nibelungenlied he is nicknamed "from Tronje".

Etymology of the epithet "Tronje"
Of the main manuscripts of the Nibelungenlied, the chief representatives of versions B and C use the spelling "Tronege": "from Tronege Hagene", "Hagen of Tronege", "geborn of Tronege", "helt of Tronege". The A version usually writes "Trony" (also "Troni" and "Tronie"). "Tronje" is the appropriate modern German form. In the B and C versions, the name is in the dative case, with the nominative being "Troneg"; "Tronje", although common, is therefore a mistake.

All attempts to interpret Hagen's name or home are highly speculative. Although the Nibelungenlied has a historic center, it was written down only centuries later, in 1200, and therefore incorporated the author's Medieval knowledge and intentions. There are suggestions that the epithet refers to more or less similar-sounding place names. However, names that have only a phonetic similarity but no meaningful link with the legend are rejected by scholars, since it is very likely that such connections are random and add nothing to the interpretation of the character. It is believed that the poet of the Nibelungenlied accepted Tronje as a real place name in the Burgundian kingdom; but it is questionable that he himself knew its exact location, since the story's many geographical mistakes suggest that his knowledge of the area around Worms was not particularly good.

Nevertheless, a link to Hagen has been discussed regarding the following places:

 * The suffix "of Tronje" could signify a derivation from the Greek "Troy", since it was fashionable in late antiquity and early medieval Europe to ascribe such ancestors to oneself. With this ascription, people could also connect themselves to the ancient Romans.
 * "Tronje" could also be the Colonia Ulpia Traiana, a Roman city close to modern Xanten, and the area from which Siegfried came. This would explain Hagen's seemingly profound knowledge of incidents and deeds from Siegfried's youth.
 * The Belgian city of Drongen in Ghent was known in Latin as "Truncinas" and had various Romanesque spellings over the following centuries: "Truncinas" (820–822), "Truncinis" (1040) and "Troncinium" (1198). Today, its French name is "Tronchiennes", which sounds almost like "Tronje". Dutch authors place the Kudrun saga here since it contains townscape and landscape names such as "Wulpe Tenenbaums" (Tenemarke, Tenelant). According to this interpretation, Hagen of the Nibelungenlied could be identical with the Hagen of the Kudrun.
 * Similarly, the name of the small village of Castle Dhronecken in the Hunsrück Mountains sounds like "Tronje"; in the Middle Ages its name was "Troneck" and it lay in the historic Kingdom of the Burgundians. Not too far away, there are place names that hint at further figures from the Nibelungenlied, especially Hagen's relative Ortwin of Metz and his colleagues Hunold and Volker von Alzey. Based on the castles around Dhronecken, Ortwin can be assigned to Metz, Hagen to Dhronecken, Hunold to Hunoldispetra (now Hunolstein in Morbach), and Volker to Alzey. These are places that travelers would pass on the way from Xanten via Metz and Worms to Passau.

Nibelungenlied
In the Nibelungenlied, he is called Hagen of Tronje.

Some versions indicate that Hagen is the "Oheim" of the three kings, i.e. their mother Ute's brother (or brother-in-law, following a now outdated German dual model of indicating and differing between matrilineal and patrilineal kinship). Some count him as Gunter's, Gernot's and Giselher's "uncle" (originally a father's brother or brother-in-law, as opposed to "Oheim"), so this may more likely hint to an old custom - nearly, but not yet completely outdated - where people close to a family take over the role of a fatherly / motherly friend and acquire the "honorary title" of an uncle or aunt (see the German expression 'Nennonkel/-tante' - 'termed uncle / -aunt'). In the German traditions, Hagen is especially grim, implacable, and violent, and in two accounts, one-eyed.

According to the Thidreks saga, Hagen was Gunnar's (senior?) half-brother. Not fully human, though, as being fathered by an elf, on the king's wife while the king was away. The Thidreks saga tells that it was Walter of Waskensten (Walter of Aquitaine) who put out Hagen's eye in a fight. In these forementioned accounts, it is Hagen who kills the hero Siegfried during a hunt, wounding him on the only part of his body which was not invulnerable. This version of the character is the most widely known and appears in Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen. In Norse tradition, Hagen's counterpart Högni is less extreme and the actual slayer of Sigurd (the Norse counterpart to Siegfried) is Gutthorm, a younger brother of Gunnar and Högni, who does so when egged on by his elder brothers.

In German accounts, Gunther and Hagen, along with Kriemhild herself, are the final casualties of the fall of the Nibelungs. Hagen refuses to reveal the hiding place of the Nibelung treasure to Kriemhild as long as his king Gunther lives. When Gunther is slain, the mortally wounded Hagen continues his refusal with sure knowledge that Gunther cannot now weaken and betray the secret, being decapitated by Kriemhild with Balmung, Siegfried's sword which Hagen had stolen after his death.

Norse accounts
In Norse accounts, however, it is Gunnar who refuses to tell the secret to Attila the Hun as long as Högni lives, and so brings about Högni's death. Högni laughs as Attila has his heart cut out.

In Atlamál, Hniflung, a son of Hagen/Högni, avenges his father's death and the deaths of his kin, together with his aunt Guðrún. This work also states that Hogni had a wife named Kostbera and two other sons: Solar and Snævar. The Drap Niflunga mentions a fourth son named Gjuki (named after Hogni's father).

Wagnerian mythology
In the opera Götterdämmerung, part of The Ring Cycle, Hagen is portrayed as the half-brother of Gunther and Gutrune, illegitimately fathered by the dwarf Alberich. He is similarly depicted as evil and cunning, acting under the influence of his father and for his own interests.

The great German bass Kurt Moll pointed out that Hagen's music is unique in the bass repertoire: it requires a shouting, blaring vocal technique which risks damaging the singer's voice; only very large-voiced, powerful singers can sing it.

title: Hagen (legend)


text:
User talk:Fallout1

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Here are some links I thought useful:

 * Tutorial
 * Help desk
 * Policy Library
 * Utilities
 * Cite your sources
 * Verifiability
 * Wikiquette
 * Civility
 * Conflict resolution
 * Brilliant prose
 * Neutral point of view
 * Pages needing attention
 * Peer review
 * Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense
 * Village pump
 * Boilerplate text
 * IRC channel
 * Mailing lists
 * Current polls

Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, likes this: ~.

Be Bold!

Sam [Spade] 06:59, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Fallout1


text:
User:Wilke/Images

Images I have created for Wikipedia. All images listed here have been released into the public domain.

title: User:Wilke/Images


text:
Talk:EuroVelo

You should always give credit where credit's due so here is a list of the sources from which I've freely borrowed the information for this article:
 * The EuroVelo routes in brief list and the EuroVelo map are both from the EuroVelo Routes and Distances page on the EuroVelo.org website.
 * The Main points on the EuroVelo routes table is from the Schlaufuchs website. The actual page Europäische Radwanderwege ("Eurovelo") is in German so I had to translate the place names into their English equivalents.
 * The two paragraphs under EuroVelo's aims and administration are directly quoted from the EuroVelo.org website.
 * The brief description for the EuroVelo 3 route is from the The Frie Fugle website
 * The brief description for the EuroVelo 12 route is from the North Sea Cycle Route website.

When approximately will these utopia be finished? -213.250.12.59
 * Utopia? As for finish date, please see article. (Hopefully by 2020.) reinthal (talk) 05:16, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

apsykes.com
A user going by the name of Aps1969 has put in a link to the website apsykes.com (or a url that now redirects there) on a couple of occasions in the past. There are only 13 edits to the users name and they all (almost) relate to adding this website. I think it's likely that this is the personal website of this user, and as such there is a conflict of interest. Additionally, while it's an fine website, it doesn't really add to the EuroVelo article. If Aps1969 feels it's important the link is included I'd be happy to hear why. --Keithonearth (talk) 05:31, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

'aps1969' here (although I do go by the name of Andrew...). You are correct, 'Keithonearth' that the website is my own. I cycled the route of the Eurovelo 5 last summer and the website developed as a result of my planning, execution and subsequent writing of a book about the journey. There is a lamentable lack of information on the web about the Eurovelo 5 and most people who are interested in cycling all or part of the route do tend to visit www.apsykes.com (or, as you correctly point out, the URL www.eurovelo5.com which also directs to my site). As one recent visitor put it "when it comes to the Eurovelo 5, all routes don't lead to Rome but to www.eurovelo5.com". The European Cyclists' Federation, perhaps for very good reasons (probably financial) do not provide the kind of detail for the Eurovelo 5 that they do for some of the other routes. I feel that to some extent I have managed to develop a usful resource that others who wish to cycle the Eurovelo 5 will be interested in reading. The site is not a commercial one and the book that I have written, although having recieved very good feedback, is sufficiently niche in its content that I doubt I will ever make more that a modest sum from its sale. Yes, there is a conflict of interests but only in the same way that someone who say works for the BBC or Microsoft or any other organisation adds to the Wikipedia entry of their employer. It is perhaps worth noting that the link that has now been removed from the Eurovelo 5 section of Wikipedia directed specifically to the pages relating to the Eurovelo 5, not the front page of the website which is more general in nature. If, however, the Wikipedia censors disagree, there is little I am able to do... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aps1969 (talk • contribs) 10:20, 11 September 2011 (UTC)

What gradient?
I wonder... EV routes have no gradient over 6% huh? Funny because on EV6 there were multiple occasions of 8-12% and one time even 20% (yes: twenty). Especially in German Schwabenland and the Black Forest. But... I am not complaining, it's a lovely track! Even in France you have signs that point out the Black See as if it were nextdoors. In Suisse, Germany and Austria its HARD to miss signs that point out "Black See, this way, sir!" because they are at every street corner and even in places away from the track. Ofcourse, the last 1000km's to the Black See signs are not implemented yet. Even though I noticed in Serbia, and even in the capital Belgrade there are EV6 roadsigns. WONDERFUL. One doesn't need a map or GPS for this EV track. In Basel I found the Rhine and just followed it, then the Danube. Easy. But I do think there should be some criticism on the criteria of the EV-routes. Ofcourse it's impossible to make a cycling track without hills over 4000km, but then please don't mention "its all lower than a 6% gradience".

Also, I like to see a charts or list to put book references in. E.g. the Bikeline-series are very good in the Germanic countries, can be bought anywhere on the trial and are very complete. Far more complete than the Eurovelo website itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.126.19.37 (talk) 02:33, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * The 6% gradient is a recommendation. This has now been made clear in the article. See cited ref for more details.reinthal (talk) 05:20, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Proposed merge with EV7 The Sun Route
Subject lacks sufficient notability for a stand alone article. Ad Orientem (talk) 21:32, 21 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Support --Ita140188 (talk) 09:07, 22 January 2014 (UTC)
 * Oppose — These EuroVelo routes are very extensive and rather new and therefore much new information needs to be supplied and in any case this page will be expanded shortly (by me, at least). Each EuroVelo page has their own page on the French wikipedia and some on other Wikipedias, such as the German, which provides some precedent. In any case, what possible purpose would there be for deletion except to remove information from Wikipedia? These EuroVelo routes are growing and many are being finished; they are not going away, their profile is only increasing. You must provide grounds for your assertion that this is not at all notable. reinthal (talk) 08:48, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on EuroVelo. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20040818141958/http://www.niederoesterreich.at/rad/default.asp?id=15580&thema= to http://www.niederoesterreich.at/rad/default.asp?id=15580&thema=

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 20:08, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:EuroVelo