text:
Talk:Hachikō

Date of Death
In case anyone is curious, I got the date of death from a recent episode of Hey! Spring of Trivia. --Do Not Talk About Feitclub (contributions) 12:39, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Wonderful article Feitclub! Simply wonderful. I saw the film about Hachiko years ago and just came across this now. Thank you so very much. perhaps later I will add some links to actual photos of Hachiko during his life and his grave. Thanks again. 172.140.145.18 19:19, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Fietclub, either the date of death is wrong, or the word 'next' is misleading: "Even after Ueno's death in May 1925, Hachikō returned every day to the station to wait for him, and did so for the next 11 years." - "Hachikō died on March 8, 1935", if Hachikō returned every day till he died, that'd only be the next 9 years 10 months. I'm thinking that the 11 years includes the year that his owner was alive. Suggested reword: Either change 11 to 10, or "Even after Ueno's death in May 1925, Hachikō returned every day to the station to wait for him, and did so for 11 years." The 2nd reword still slightly implies that he visited after his owners death, but doesn't actually state it.

If there is no discussion about this I'll alter 11 to 10 in a couple of weeks. Hapveg - 2007 Aug 19th

altered 11 to 10 Hapveg - 2007 Sept 9th

Hachiko and the war
Would you say that Hachiko's popularity was directly causally connected to the rising war effort? Or a circumstantial connection? It seems somewhat disingenuous to connect the two considering that a story like Hachiko's has a certain universal appeal to any dog lover, (eg. Man's best friend, etc.). Is there a citation for this statement? Or is it merely the author's opinion. I mean, clearly militarism was on the rise (Manchurian incident in 1932) and all, but can you honestly say that Hachiko's popularity was enlisted for the war effort? Seems like a stretch. . .Especially considering the manner in which Hachiko's statue was so easily scrapped for metal during the war. If Hachiko was so important as a symbol of loyalty then why would the statue be so easily scrapped? It's not like they scrapped the statues around the Byakkotai memorial in Aizu-Wakamatsu, which was much more closely configured as tied to fascism than Hachiko. {Anonymous Comment}

Citations Needed
I've always liked the story of Hachiko and have been to his statue, but I think this story is thin on citations. 203.213.7.131 00:21, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I started one version of this article (which was later merged with another version titled "hachi-ko") by translating it from the japanese version. I doubt you can use Wikipedia itself as a citation, but I'm open to suggestion. adamrice 18:46, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Do you really need a citation for "people's hearts were touched"? Do you really need a citation for "people use their mouth and nose to inhale"? Of course people are going to be touched. That's why they're obsessed with the damn dog in the first place! But I'm sure there is a scholarly article published somewhere that details the scientific nature of the "touched" sensation felt by those who witnessed the dog. I am being sarcastic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.35.105.173 (talk) 01:50, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

Hidesaburo Ueno
The name, according to the Japanese wikipedia article on the man, is Hidesaburō, not Hidesamurou. The name order, according to the MOS for Japan articles, is given name first. The romanization, also according to the MOS, is to use a macron'd o for the long o. Please leave it be. adamrice 14:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Hi Adamrice! Please see Ueno Hidesamuroh or. At his stature, his name is represented as the Hidesamuroh. please come to Tokyo Uni.Tokyo Watcher

 * Referring me to a page written entirely by you isn't exactly kosher. Nevertheless, if his name really is Hidesamurõ, you might want to correct the article 上野英三郎 adamrice 19:09, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

Oh…Dear Adamrice!!
Please see Tokyo Teikokudaigaku Jinjiroku『東京帝國大學人事録』.Then, you will be able to understand the truth.I want for you to have the stout heart which turns eyes to the truth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Tokyo Watcher (talk • contribs) 00:10, 11 March 2007 (UTC). Tokyo Watcher

such loyalty
mention that can result in million of dead japanese

Yakitori......
I constantly hear from Tokyo people that the "loyalty" story is a myth, the truth is the dog was waiting for chicken.

Why not represent this better in Wikipedia?--Sean-Jin 23:02, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It's mentioned. No doubt Hachikō eventually came to see the station as his home with a source of food. However, in the beginning, he was a fairly young animal who was immensly attached to his owner.  The Professor's family attempted to place him with another family and he kept running away, back to the station.  If you've never had an Akita or known one, I guess you might not understand how very loyal they can be.  Their very close bond with one person is often a problem for families that can't accomodate this trait.  Another famous Akita story is that of Kato, Nicole brown Simpson's dog who stayed by her body for some time, eventually running down the street and leading some people out walking back to the scene of the murder.  They knew something was up when they saw the blood on his paws.  It's heartbreaking to think of him sitting there nudging his mistress trying to get some response.  My neighbors had a japanese akita who was incredibaly attached to my dog, a German Shepherd.  Whenever a friend of theirs took care of him during their absence, he would drag them to our house (quite literally) so he could be with our dog.  They form sincere and lasting attachments. it's one of the reaosns people admire them.LiPollis 23:52, 17 April

2007 (UTC)

I don't know where to put this reference, but I would like to share a similar case that happens in Futurama ;). Fry is cryogenized, but Fry's dog waits for him until dead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=akf-H0OVpLA --87.219.18.161 18:52, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * There's a general consensus that we should avoid mentioning every media citation of a vaguely Hachiko-like nature. That was in the article before and has been removed. adamrice 00:35, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Pop Culture References
While I dont think it qualifys as trvia (though it comes awfully close), the pop culture references needs to be cleaned up and constructed into an actual paragraph. Say a paragraph dealing with influences on movies, another on television etc. Showers 20:43, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

The episode of Futurama mentioned is almost identical to this story, although the roles are slightly reversed. Watch it and see what I mean. Excellent show and one of the best episodes.. --Nothingnowhere (talk) 06:06, 11 August 2009 (UTC)

In the Futurama episode mentioned, Jurassic Bark, Seymour (Fry's Dog) does not die at the end of the episode. He was fossilized quickly in a standing position, and the reason for this is given in Bender's Big Score. This is also referenced in the continuity section of the Wikipedia article for Jurassic Bark. Asplode (talk) 21:36, 20 February 2010 (UTC)

Unsourced tag removed & request for help in finding a sound file of him barking from that record
Today I removed the tag that claimed this article had NO references. While it could certainly use more references, it has four and a proper reference section which is more than many wikipedia articles. Please do not put inappropriate tags on articles. If you want to see more references for facts in the article, use Google or Google Books. it's more constructive than deleting statements you suspect may not be factual simply due to lack of a cite for each and every sentence.

Hachiko's story touches some people very deeply and there is a tendency to assume that his fame is not deserved or that the facts of his life are hagiography which leads to lots of cite tags on statements. In truth, his story is rather simple and quite similar to a number of other famously faithful dogs. I suspect it is the tone of the article that offends some editors. If that's the case, I suggest they do what they can to tweak it here and there but not gut the article. People searching for info on this famous dog are often children. Please keep that in mind. They want to see his photo, read about his life and how his story still touches people across cultures.

One thing I'd really love to get is a link to the record of him barking. That would be wonderful. I've looked and searched and not come across a file of it. If anyone out there can help, please do. It was broadcast over radio in japan so we know a sound file exists somewhere.LiPollis 03:14, 2 November 2007 (UTC) Updated this post with spelling and format corrections.LiPollis 09:02, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

Yakitori = bias?
It's one thing to say that the comment on Hachiko returning to the station looking for handouts is speculative. It's a very different thing to say that it's biased, and frankly, I don't understand how it can be considered biased. The "some speculate" phrasing is quite delicate, in fact. The idea that Hachiko was looking for handouts the accepted wisdom among everyone I ever met in Tokyo. The accepted wisdom could be wrong, I suppose, but calling something "biased" just because it doesn't fit one's preferred fairytale storyline is, well, at least as biased. What is established is that whether or not he was looking for handouts, he was getting them. adamrice (talk) 18:41, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't see anything wrong with the former version of the article that had a line or two about the yakitori sticks. It was worded as kindly as possible.  I think it's reasonable to assume that Hachiko simply came to accept the station as his home.  He was able to get food, shelter and affection there.  It wasn't a posh life but it was a stable life.  How long he remembered the Professor is a question for dog psychologists to answer.  I would guess that it was more the routine of going to the station and waiting for that train that stuck in his little doggie mind.  Dogs love routines and become very hesitant to change them once established.  I don't feel including a brief statement about the chicken handouts is somehow dissing hachiko's memory or besmirching his loyalty to his dead master.  However, his story brings out strong emotions. Perhaps we should take a brief poll here and ask how many are opposed to putting those lines back in and how many favor it.  I vote in favor.LiPollis (talk) 05:20, 21 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I'm not convinced that the anonymous edits were made in good faith, and therefore, I'm not convinced that compromise is worthwhile. adamrice (talk) 21:02, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Yakitori?
I feel a lot of curious the relation with this dog and yakitori. I known the meaning of yakitori (fried chicken) but also Yakitori was the name of my former dog (yes, a bizarre name for a dog), he died by old also by the injuries caused to fight with a Akita (here an Akita is a exotic dog). Coincidence?. maybe.

Also, the hypothesis about the "leftovers" is quite implausible because :if happens then there are more dogs also the location is not a good place to ask for a food.

Anyways, dogs love to eat but they love even more their master, my ex-dog (Yakitori) sometimes did bring me a dead chicken, a rabbit and even a rat (!), he really loved to eat meat but still he was even more loyal to bring me food and not to keep it for himself. So yes,may be at first Hachiko did wait for food but later he did wait for the teacher. Everyone that raised a dog knowns how loyal can be a dog they even can sacrifice themself for save their master.

--200.104.187.13 (talk) 00:17, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

More about another loyal dog that wait for their master
 --200.104.187.13 (talk) 00:26, 20 July 2008 (UTC)
 * I've another which I'll add to section "See Also" if no objections arise within 4 weeks: "Wayne Giroux of Lone Oak, Texas passed away in June 2010, but his dog Spot still sits on the country road waiting for him to come home daily ." Richardc020 (talk) 06:12, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Minor re-structuring of article
Today I did some minor restructuring of the article, moving the bit about the hoaxed theft of the statue up to the section on the statues and breaking out the section on Hachikō in the media into it's own subheading with subsections. it just looks better this way and makes more sense when you look at the contents box. LiPollis (talk) 22:08, 15 August 2008 (UTC)

Dog on the Tuckerbox
The story about the dog on the tucker box is just plain rubbish. There is nothing in the poem bullocky bill which even mentions a dog, and the dog on the tuckerbox at Gundagai was not guarding the tuckerbox - a ridiculous story in the first place. You have been conned, Wikipedia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.17.235.24 (talk) 07:37, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

 * The monument Dog on the Tuckerbox exists. As the article notes, there are two poems that were the impetus for the statue. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 10:59, 31 May 2012 (UTC)

Hachiko reference
The movie "Scooby Doo and the Samurai Sword" (I think that is the correct title) features the statue of Hachiko and his story. Mathiusdragoon (talk) 17:35, 25 May 2009 (UTC)

Death
I edited this page back in June - with sources - that showed Hachiko dies on a street in Shibuya (not on the steps) and that the autopsy showed that he had heart worm and yakitori sticks in his stomach. A susbseqent editor has removed this. This is plain fact and should be included. I will ammend the section on death in one month's time from today's date - unless discussion here can tell me why verified fact should not be includedKunchan (talk) 11:38, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

IN fact the reference the editor uses for the assertation that Haciko died on his master's steps is in fact the reference used for my deleted comments that cites a professor of the UNiversity of Tokyo - were the details re Hachiko are kept. THe professor states he was found in a street and the casue of death. I am reinsting the original text - if someone wants to change it again, I think we need to have a source and a discussion on talk Kunchan (talk) 11:44, 12 May 2010 (UTC)

Picture needed
Rather obviously, this needs a picture of the statue erected at the station, melted down during the war, and then recast. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 13:36, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

is used on the Japanese version of this article, we should be able to use it, too. Chrisrus (talk) 04:18, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

 * I have added the image at File:Hachiko 20040803.jpg. To prevent this from being deleted could someone please add details of whether the sculptor is alive or when he died. Also need name of the photographer (sorry cannot read the Japanese page). Details of the location of the statue on the image page would also be useful. --Traveler100 (talk) 06:45, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I had to remove the image. The statue is copyrighted. It was erected at the outside of Ōdate Station on Nov.14, 1987 and the sculptor is Yoshio Matsuda/松田芳雄 (b. 1035). He is still alive as his name can be found as a member of this organization. The uploader/photographer at ja:WP seems to be ignorant of the copy right law. We cannot use current statues images, but the first statue images. The sculptor Teru Ando died in 1945.
 * As a piece of art in a public place in Japan is copyrighted in that it cannot be used for commercial purposes; therefore cannot be uploaded to Commons. However this does not preclude it from being uploaded to a Wikipedia under non free fair use rules.--Traveler100 (talk) 18:05, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Two last pictures needed Akita (dog)
That article is a GA candidate. Picture of Helen Keller with Akita. Picture of Helen Keller with Akita. There are several others at Google Images. Anybody got one for Commons? Helen Keller at Wikimedia Commons 7&6=thirteen (☎) 15:45, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * Neither this article not the Hachikō article have a picture of the bronzed statue. Bronze of Hachikō  We need one of those in Commons, too.  7&6=thirteen (☎) 16:27, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
 * We cannot use images of the second/current statue as the statue is copyrighted. These old images are pd. The first statue,, , , , and Dr. Ueno. Oda Mari (talk) 08:44, 5 October 2011 (UTC)
 * The statue is on display outdoors in public. Thousands of people see it every day.  It stands on public land.  Anyone can photograph it, there's no way to restrict photos as with a statue in a museum.  We need a picure of the statue. Chrisrus (talk) 14:07, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes it is in a public place, you can take a photograph of it and therefore under Japanese laws use it for non-commercial purpose. However for 50 year after the death for the artist it is still under copyright and cannot be used for commercial purposes. It therefore cannot be uploaded to Commons. The photograph can however be uploaded to Wikipedia and used in an article about the subject when you define the correct Non-free use rationale.--Traveler100 (talk) 19:31, 31 May 2012 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter if it cannot be used for commercial purposes, because we are not using it for commercial purposes. If we were using it for commercial purposes, that Japanese copyright law would matter.  But we're not, so it doesn't.  Chrisrus (talk) 02:43, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * See this, Chrisrus. Oda Mari (talk) 07:51, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

If I may just swipe this from there and paste it below so we can have a look at it in this context, I quote:

Japan

 * for artistic works:  except in cases governed by article 46.
 * for buildings only:

Japanese copyright law allows the reproduction of artistic works located permanently in open places accessible to the public, such as streets and parks, or at places easily seen by the public, such as the outer walls of buildings, only for non-commercial purposes; therefore, such photographs are not free enough for Commons.

Architectural works (i.e., buildings) located in such places may be photographed and the photos may be reproduced for any purposes; §46(iv), which contains the "non-commercial" restriction, applies only to "artistic works". Some buildings like the Tower of the Sun can be regarded as artistic works (discussion).
 * Japanese copyright law, §46

Note: According to Article 51 of Japanese copyright law, Japan has a copyright lifetime of 50 years after the death of the author (ie. creator/designer) or following "the death of the last surviving co-author in the case of a joint work." Heceforth, the author's works shall become copyright free and enter the public domain.

(unquote, Chrisrus (talk) 14:40, 1 June 2012 (UTC))

discussion of the quote
First, I don't understand why the links are red in the quote. I just copied and pasted it exactly, so if the links are blue there, why are they red here?

Second, let's remember to correct that word "Heceforth" back where we got this from.

Third, why does a no-commercial-use clause prohibit non-commercial uses such as using it in this article? Chrisrus (talk) 14:40, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * it does not prohibit its use in this article but does prohibit its use on other articles and uploading to Commons. The image must be uploaded to this Wikipedia project and added to it Template:Non-free use rationale filled out appropriately.--Traveler100 (talk) 16:47, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you take care of that please? We need that picture of the statue back in the place where it goes. Chrisrus (talk) 05:28, 2 June 2012 (UTC)

is used on the Japanese version of this article, we should be able to use it, too. Chrisrus (talk) 04:18, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Apparently this topic has not been discussed enough to be a dispute. If you believe an image can be added here under WP:NFC or that it cannot because it still violates Japan's copyright rules please add your view here. --Traveler100 (talk) 13:01, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Constantine the dog AKA Kostya
The recently added story about Constantine the dog seemed legit right after it was added. I checked the citation given at the time, http://petsparadise.ru/reading/14-14/168-168. But now, just a day later, it doesn't seem to be working, and I can't find another citation for it. Can you? Is there something fishy about constantine, or does the story check out? Chrisrus (talk) 02:51, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The page is working fine and so is Google Translate but you kinda have to have a little patience and knowledge of Russian becuase Goggle Translate garbles the grammar and some of the words quite badly. It appears legit to me and back when the story was first all over the web, I did some confirmation via other non-English language sites.  There seem to be 2 stories about Constantine aka Kostya: 1st is that he stayed by the site of the place where he was thrown from the car for 7 years and the 2nd (from some legend sites) is that after he died, people claim to still see his ghost waiting faithfully for his master.  None of this is in English but Google Translate is a great tool.  He has a monument and a date for the accident is given as 1995 with the city of Tolyatti erecting the statue in 2003 some while after Kostya was found dead in the woods.  Even the sculpter is Identified in several pages as Oleg Kluev.  Maybe Kostya needs an article of his own?LiPollis (talk) 05:21, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

Photograph of a statue of Hachiko WP:Copyvio?
User:Oda Mari reverted the addition of a photograph of a statue of Hachiko saying "rm copyvio image. the statue is copyrighted." It is true the statue is copyrighted however the photograph of the statue may not copyright violation. Please see the following exception. "If the work is displayed in public permanently" "建築物や公園にある銅像などを写真撮影したりテレビ放送したりすることを認めるもので、建築物をまねて建てたり、銅像などのレプリカを作ったり、絵はがきとして売ったりするような場合には、著作権者の許可が必要です. "
 * Taking photos of copyright works in public places
 * 14. 公開の美術著作物の利用
 * ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 08:25, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * As far as I know, the image should be 100% copyright free in order to eliminate the possibility that someone would use it for commercial purpose and that would be copivio. Oda Mari (talk) 09:51, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Please provide a relevant source supporting your assertion. My personal feeling is a photography of a public statue should not be copy right violation as supported by above sources. ―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 11:49, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Under copyright rules in Japan you can reproduce work that is in a public place as long as it is not for commercial purposes. So under that rule  this is not 100% copyright free in that someone could reuse it for another purpose once found on wikipedia. However copyright in Japan is only for 50 years after the death of the author/artist, the statue was erected in 1934 but does anyone have any details about the person who sculpted it?  --Traveler100 (talk) 13:58, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * See this. I thought it was OK last year. But it wasn't. See Commons:Deletion requests/File:Hachiko200505-2.jpg and Commons:Deletion requests/File:Hachiko statue.jpg. I asked for SD at Commons and the image above was deleted. As for the statue, it was erected in 1948 and the sculptor is Takeshi Ando. See and . Oda Mari (talk) 14:36, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Astonishing but maybe not correct
Can this be? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 06:44, 2 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Huh. ....hmmm. ...? Chrisrus (talk) 15:51, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Is it because of the "Digg" tag at the top of this talk page? Chrisrus (talk) 15:55, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what Digg is, but I gather it's a popular site that provides visitors with a link to this article. If so, that was 5 years ago, right? Still such huge hits? Anyway, I'm very pleased it's now the lede image at List of dogs. This was a great dog, and clearly better than the former lead image, a stupid dog in a some sort of waistcoat, as I recall. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 03:07, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The page views continue to hold up. Nice to know that we contributed to an article that somebody reads.  <b style="color:#060">7&6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 13:08, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

The last picture of Hachiko
Anna, everybody, look what I found at Digg: Can we get this photo? http://www.wildpic.co/2012/06/23/the-last-picture-of-hachiko/ ? We lost our photo of the statue. HACHIKO FOREVER!!! Chrisrus (talk) 16:00, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, we can. It's a PD. Upload the image. See the link #5. It was taken about a year before his death and it's also a PD. Oda Mari (talk) 16:21, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Oops, we have it already. About the statue, though, Oda Mari, please try to figure out a way to get one.  There must be some way. Chrisrus (talk) 16:34, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
 * It is completely reasonable under NFC that a non-free image of the statue can be used on this article since the status itself is the subject of discussion as part of the dog's legacy. It just has to be uploaded to en.wiki, not commons. --M ASEM (t) 18:27, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The image is available under WP:NFC here File:Hachiko 20040803.jpg. I do not want to add it as I have done so twice already today, and do not want to run foul of some over enthusiastic want to be controller. --Traveler100 (talk) 19:11, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Notice of Dispute resolution discussion
There is currently a discussion at Dispute resolution noticeboard regarding a content dispute with this article. Content disputes can hold up article development, therefore we request your participation in the discussion to help find a resolution. The thread is "Hachikō". --Traveler100 (talk) 11:17, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Statue paragraph and photo
There have been a number of requests for a photograph of the statue. After checking on rule of adding artwork it is recommended that the paragraph on the statue should be expanded, then the image can be added. See. So its up to you guys now. --Traveler100 (talk) 15:40, 10 October 2012 (UTC)

Similar Cases
The "Similar Cases" section has a mix of other real cases and myths. This should be separated. Hachiko is a true story. Similar cases would be other true stories, not myths. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.246.73.55 (talk) 03:01, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Here they are. Chrisrus (talk) 11:53, 15 October 2012 (UTC)
 * The linked page was recently moved and it's at List of individual dogs now. --Kusunose 02:23, 16 October 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks.
 * Of the faithful afer master's death dogs we have collected here so far, Baekgu, Capitan, Greyfriars Bobby, Heidi, Leao, Squeek, and The yellow dog of Lao Pan, are all dogs that sat vigil with a dead body, which is different from Hachiko, Fido, and Spot, who never found the body of their masters. Hachiko is more similar to Fido (dog) and Spot as they returned to the same place every day to wait for a master that would never arrive.  (I say that past tense, but Spot may still go there every day as far as Wikipedia knows.)
 * How many of these cases do we want to repeat here? How about maybe just some, and then we just direct the reader to the list of faithful dogs? Chrisrus (talk) 08:13, 16 October 2012 (UTC)

The section occupies 23% (650 / 2800 words) of this article. So I removed cases without articles of its own and removed extra explanations described in its own articles.―― Phoenix7777 (talk) 00:20, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Honestly, I feel cases of dogs who are legendary or a monument based on a poem don't deserve to be under the heading Similar Cases but could be put in SEE ALSO. It makes the story of Hachikō less special and less believable to lump him in with Argos and the Tuckerbox Dog.  Why not stick in Gelert while we're at it?  All that is listed on the List of Faithful Dogs page called List of individual dogs. LiPollis (talk) 05:08, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * You are wrong about the reality of Dog on the Tuckerbox; that he became the subject of a poem does not diminish his existence. Argos is an archetype, and Hachikō was used in a similar way to support an attitude toward the Emperor of Japan, and has been put forth in numerous books and movies in the same way. Putting it in see also diminishes the comparison. What these all have in common is that they became iconic dogs.  The myth is at least as important as the reality, and may even transcend the reality. That would be the way to break this up. <b style="color:#060">7&6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 11:17, 17 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your correction regarding the Dog on the Tuckerbox. Much appreciated. Clearly I will have to delve further into the hsitry of this dog to find out out his origins. Since I love such stories, that is not a hardship! However, the changes to the article have now removed the most closest real-life examples that were listed under SEE ALSO, and I feel that hurts, rather than helps the article.  It might be best to simple add to the SEE Also section the link to  Dogs famous for remaining faithful long after the death of their master and leave Greyfriars Bobby and Dog on the Tuckerbox.  If other editors want to add a brief section on Legendary dogs, that could be done leading with Argos, if you wish but a separate, longer article would be needed to explore the cross-cultural attraction to such stories both legendary and true.  I'd be happy to help develop such an article since it would be of interest to the Dog Project and to the many readers who continue to visit this page whenever a new case of a "Faithful Dog" hits the media and Hachikō or Greyfriars Bobby story is brought up to bolster the claim that such things actually happen.  Feel free to let me know how I can be of service!  I do, however, feel that the SEE ALSO section should be mlimited to cases of actual dogs who have been proven to have lived and whose faithful devotion to their master(s) after their death became famous, either locally or worldwide.  For example, I'd like to work up an English Language article on Kostya AKA Contantine, the dog from Tolyatti in Russia.  Since I can translate most of the articles and there are a few, his story might be enjoyed by those who visit Hachikō's article .  That's a separate issue, of course, but anyone interested inhelping out is welcome to discuss it with me on my page. LiPollis (talk) 20:07, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

Bronze Paw-Prints - Where? Do they exist?
Article states "The exact spot where Hachikō waited in the train station is permanently marked with bronze paw-prints and text in Japanese explaining his loyalty."

I can find no pictures of these by searching in English and Japanese. Nor can I find any reference to these in Japanese.

I think if there is no actual evidence of these, then this text should be deleted. Whats up skip (talk) 00:11, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

There was an inquiry about this in Trip Advisor's Japan Forums. At least two visitors had searched for them in vain and none of the very knowledgeable regular contributors had seem them. Two of us also conducted an internet search. I will delete this section. --RRMarsh (talk) 15:31, 12 February 2016 (UTC)

Hachiko - Akita or Akita Inu?
I am surprised that no one has taken up this topic so far. Under the photo of Hachiko to the right hand side of the article his breed is stated as being Akita Inu. Yet throughout the article Hachiko is described as being an Akita. The two breeds though related, are distinctly separate and exist each with their own breed standard and distinct personality. It would be so much appreciated if the Wikipedia would be so kind as to describe Hachiko in the written article itself as being an Akita Inu, which, apparently, he was. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.44.111.65 (talk) 02:12, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * The article Akita (dog) identifies two distinct referents, the Japanese and the American. Hachiko must have been a Japanese Akita, because what are the chances that he was an American Akita.  So it's safe to assume he was a Japanese Akita. Chrisrus (talk) 02:55, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * At the time there was essentially only one breed. The existence of one or two breeds now is controversial; but this split did not occur until after World War II, particularly when Akitas were sold to GIs stationed in Japan.  Hachikō predates all of that. <b style="color:#060">7&6=thirteen</b> (<b style="color:#000">☎</b>) 11:04, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

kō
Hachikō is known in Japanese as chūken Hachikō (忠犬ハチ公, "faithful dog Hachikō") — hachi meaning eight, the number referring to the dog's birth order in the litter, and a suffix kō meaning affection.[3]

Despite the footnote which seems to say so, kō does not imply affection. It is an ancient Chinese title (Duke) which has come down in the world over the centuries and by the nineteenth century had come in Chinese to be a term of respect for commoners. In Japanese, however, it has been a title for dogs and monkeys, and indeed a denigrating title for human beings considered to be inferior. It has therefore gone almost entirely out of use in Japan on the grounds of being discriminatory. It therefore means (in a derogatory, ironic or at best in a teasing sense) Lord Hachi, or Mr Hachi.

Dr Marguerite Wells124.171.1.238 (talk) 07:18, 13 June 2014 (UTC)

I second this. I have an okay handle on reading japanese, enough to see that the "source" disproves the claim about kou. AnotherToast (talk) 04:14, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

I think the full context of the use of kō as a name ending should include that many female first names end in kō in Japan. In this context, the word kō originally meant "child". Since Hachikō was a male, the ending might have implied "little"; not quite a term of endearment, but possibly still respectful. Drbillellis (talk) 16:55, 26 December 2020 (UTC)

 * This was years ago, but you're thinking about 子, not 公. Duckduckgoop (talk) 14:28, 26 February 2023 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Hachikō. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20111222100255/http://www.japantimes.co.jp/april_fool_a.html to http://www.japantimes.co.jp/april_fool_a.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140416175119/http://www.fremantle.wa.gov.au/home/Homepage_-_Whats_on/2014_Whats_on/April_2014/Hachiko to http://www.fremantle.wa.gov.au/home/Homepage_-_Whats_on/2014_Whats_on/April_2014/Hachiko

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II <sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS"> Talk to my owner :Online 04:31, 8 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Hachikō. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20131103064510/http://www.digitaljournal.com:80/article/218509/Dog_faithfully_awaits_return_of_his_master_for_past_11_years to http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/218509/Dog_faithfully_awaits_return_of_his_master_for_past_11_years
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110907142415/http://search.japantimes.co.jp:80/cgi-bin/nn20110304a5.html to http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/nn20110304a5.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier">cyberbot II <sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS"> Talk to my owner :Online 06:52, 10 February 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Hachikō. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120718073400/http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/social_affairs/AJ201206160043 to http://ajw.asahi.com/article/behind_news/social_affairs/AJ201206160043

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 12:16, 15 December 2017 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 22:07, 24 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Statue of Hachiko at Odate Station-02.jpg

Eighth puppy
I've always heard Hachiko was the 8th puppy born in his litter. Can this be added? — Preceding unsigned comment added by MisawaSakura (talk • contribs) 00:58, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

HACHI THIS BRAED FAMOUS AND COSTLY AND ITS CALLED AKITA
TGV 103.194.242.110 (talk) 11:16, 19 January 2023 (UTC)

Poorly AI-upscaled photo of Hachiko
The colorized version of the last photo of Hachiko has been very poorly AI-upscaled. It has outright fabricated details not present in the original image. These are most visible on Hachiko's jaw, the face of the man in the top left and the man near the right facing the camera. Worst of all, the face of Yaeko Ueno, Hachiko's owner's partner, is completely misshapen and deformed.

Can the image be removed? In general, are AI-upscaled images accepted? I don't believe they should because they imply an appearance that does not match reality. Kafgha (talk) 21:36, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

 * After reading about a similar case in a separate article (Motilal (actor)), I've gone ahead and removed the image. Kafgha (talk) 22:30, 7 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hachikō


text:
Mark Everett

Mark Everett may refer to:

 * Mark Oliver Everett (born 1963), musician
 * Mark Everett (runner) (born 1968), American 800 meters athlete
 * Manuel Benitez (1969–2008), child-actor whose stage name was Mark Everett
 * Mark Everett (cricketer) (born 1967), former English cricketer

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Mark Everett


text: Category:Belarusian artists

title: Category:Belarusian artists


text:
Principal Park

Principal Park, formerly Sec Taylor Stadium, is a minor league baseball stadium in Des Moines, Iowa. It is the home field of the International League's Iowa Cubs.

Features
Principal Park is at the confluence of the Des Moines River and the Raccoon River in downtown Des Moines. The stadium seats 11,500 fans, with 4,088 club seats and has 45 luxury suites, 12 of which are in a building in left field that also houses the Cub Club restaurant. The Iowa State Capitol building is visible from beyond the center field fence, while some seats also provide views of the Des Moines skyline.

History
The first ballpark at this site was Pioneer Memorial Stadium in 1947. It was renamed Sec Taylor Stadium in honor of longtime Des Moines Register sports editor Garner "Sec" Taylor on September 2, 1959. The park served as home of the Des Moines Bruins of the Class A Western League (1947–1958) and the Des Moines Demons of the Class B Three–I League (1959–1961). It became the home of the Iowa Cubs (originally the Iowa Oaks of the American Association) in 1969.

By the late 1980s the original stadium was becoming run down, and was starting to develop a seedy reputation as the wooden seats and bleachers were splintering and unpainted. After Des Moines voters approved a bond issue to rebuild Sec Taylor Stadium in August 1990, most of the original stadium was demolished after the 1991 season. The present facility, complete with sky boxes, plastic seats, metal bleachers and a family picnic area, was dedicated on April 16, 1992. During part of the 1993 season the stadium was submerged by the Great Flood of 1993, but the team still went on to win the American Association championship. The ballpark hosted the Triple-A All-Star Game in 1997. A team of American League-affiliated All-Stars defeated a team of National League-affiliated All-Stars, 5–3.

In 2004, Chicago Cubs pitchers Mark Prior and Kerry Wood—both former I-Cubs players—pitched rehabilitation starts in Des Moines and attracted sellout crowds in the process. Wood made two additional rehab starts at Principal Park on June 14, 2005 and one start on May 12, 2006.

On August 5, 2004, Sec Taylor Stadium was renamed Principal Park after the Principal Financial Group purchased the naming rights to the facility. The playing field is still known as Sec Taylor Field. The $2.5 million deal covered part of a $6.8 million renovation project that took place during the 2005–2006 off–season. The project included the addition of over 1,000 new seats in the right field grandstand, replacement of all other seats, construction of new right field bleachers, installation of a new scoreboard and video board, replacement of the stadium field lighting system, and other structural changes.

On August 26, 2004, the ballpark hosted a concert featuring Bob Dylan and Willie Nelson.

Principal Park hosted its first Iowa High School Athletic Association state baseball tournament in 2005 and is scheduled to host the tournament through 2020.

Principal Park's single–game attendance record was set on June 8, 2007, when 15,188 fans watched an I–Cubs game against the New Orleans Zephyrs. However, the highest attendance for any event at the stadium was set on September 25, 2009, when a Dave Matthews Band concert brought in a sellout crowd of 18,158.

On June 14, 2008, the Iowa Cubs beat the Nashville Sounds 5–4. The paid attendance was 0 due to flooding concerns in the Downtown Des Moines area.

The stadium hosted live watch parties during the 2015 and 2016 playoff runs for the parent Chicago Cubs, the latter resulting in the franchise's first World Series championship in 108 years.

Renovations
In 1995, the ballpark added a new look with a remodeled clubhouse and 12 skyboxes in left field. The $2 million clubhouse expansion featured new locker room facilities for both the Cubs and visiting clubs. The locker room complex also included: new offices for the manager and coaches, laundry and storage facilities, an expanded training room, an indoor batting cage, a new weight room and a family lounge.

Many new features were added prior to the 2000 season. A skybox was added to the first base side, 88 new Home Plate Club seats were constructed behind home plate and a $100,000 sound system was installed. The Cub Club also was extensively remodeled and Principal Park became a smoke-free facility.

After the completion of the 2002 season, a new playing surface was installed at Principal Park. The three-month-long project cost just under $1 million, and features the same grass as Wrigley Field and one of the best playing fields in the minor leagues.

Over the winter between the 2005 and 2006 seasons, Principal Park underwent an extensive renovation at a cost of $6.8 million. New seats were installed throughout the ballpark, a new scoreboard and videoboard were installed and a fountain in right field was completed for the 2007 season. A bleacher seating area in front of the scoreboard and a giant kids' playland was installed on the first base concourse.

A new video board was added to right field in 2015. A ribbon board and LED lighting was added in 2017.

title: Principal Park


text:
Pigeonholing

Pigeonholing is a process that attempts to classify disparate entities into a limited number of categories (usually, mutually exclusive ones).

The term usually carries connotations of criticism, implying that the classification scheme referred to inadequately reflects the entities being sorted, or that it is based on stereotypes.

Pitfalls
Various classification schemes often suffer from pitfalls such as these:

 * The categories may be poorly defined, inadequately described, or subjective.
 * Example: A poor person and a rich person may have different ideas about what counts as "too expensive".
 * A single entity may be suited to more than one category.
 * Example: Rhubarb is both "poisonous" (the leaves) and "safe to eat" (the stem).
 * Entities may not fit into any available category.
 * Example: A person who is moving from one city to another does not live in either city.
 * Entities may change over time, so they no longer fit the category in which they have been placed.
 * Example: Certain species of fish may change from male to female during their life.
 * Example: A child who is categorized as "unable to read" may learn to read soon afterwards.
 * Some properties are better viewed as a continuum than as separate categories.
 * Example: There are people of every height, so categorizing all of them as "short", "average", and "tall" can result in people of almost exactly the same height being put in different categories.  The tallest "short" person and the shortest "average" person will be almost the same height.

An example of pigeonholing in everyday conversation occurs when a person making an apolitical or barely political comment is assumed to have a certain political belief, without ascertaining their political stance. Such an erroneous designation is especially erroneous when assigning it to people who live in places where the left–right dichotomy is not present.

title: Pigeonholing


text:
Jiandao

Jiandao or Chientao, known in Korean as Gando or Kando, is a historical border region along the north bank of the Tumen River in Jilin Province, Northeast China that has a high population of ethnic Koreans. The word "Jiandao", literally "Middle Island", originally referred to a shoal in Tumen River between today's Chuankou Village, Kaishantun in Longjing, Jilin, China and Chongsŏng, Onsong County in North Korea. The island was an important landmark for immigrants from the Korean Peninsula looking for settlements across the river. As the number of immigrants increased, the area covered by the name "Jiandao" gradually changed to reflect the areas of Korean settlement.

In the early 20th century, an expanding Japanese Empire argued that ethnic Koreans living in this area should be placed under its jurisdiction. As one of its first set of attempts to annex northeast China and conquer other parts of mainland China, Imperial Japanese forces in Korea invaded Jiandao in 1907, but Japan withdrew its forces to Korea in 1909 and, under diplomatic pressure from China, recognized the border along Tumen River that had existed before the invasion.

The Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture of present-day Jilin Province covers roughly the same region as historical Jiandao. The prefecture is approximately 42,000 square kilometers in size and is home to about 810,000 ethnic Koreans.

In China, Yanbian is the name used, and Jiandao is not used, due to its association with Japanese colonial occupation. Both North Korea and South Korea recognize the region as a part of the People's Republic of China, but there are some liberal and left-wing nationalist elements in South Korea that endorse the idea that the region should be a part of modern-day Korea. These groups claim what happened in Jiandao between 1907–1909 (Japan's invasion and subsequent withdrawal) was an illegal transfer of Korean territory between Japan and China.

History
Many different states and tribes succeeded each other in ruling the area during ancient times. These included Buyeo, Goguryeo and Goguryeo's successor state Balhae. Goguryeo was a country that controlled northern Korea and southern Manchuria, being widely regarded as one of the Three Kingdoms of Korea. Balhae was a state that existed in the area during the Tang dynasty in China and the Unified Silla Period in Korea. China emphasizes Balhae's temporary tributary relationship to the Tang, while Korea emphasizes that Balhae was a successor state and a cultural extension of Goguryeo.

Balhae was destroyed by the Khitan Liao dynasty in 926, and was formally annexed in 936. Over the next nine to ten centuries the region was administered by the Liao (Khitans), Jin (Jurchens), Yuan (Mongols), Ming and then the Qing.

In 1712, the border between Qing and Joseon was formally demarcated. For years, Qing officials did not allow people to move to Northeastern China, as it believed that should a Han majority government rise again in parts of China south of the Great Wall, the Manchus could retreat to their original homeland. Joseon officials also did not allow its subjects to move to Northeastern China. These governmental regulations, with the general marshy nature of the area, left these lands north of the Tumen River relatively undeveloped and the region was sparsely populated by Manchu tribes for a long time. Qing officials regularly inspected this region and occasional Korean intruders were detained and sent back to Korea. However, by the late 19th century, peasants in northern Korea were migrating to northeast China to flee famine and poverty. More arrived as refugees when Japan invaded Korea in 1894.

From 1901, The Korean Empire prepared to take control of Jiandao. In 1901, Korean General Yi Hak-gyun, Diplomat Sands in Korea, and captain Payeur were sent to observe Jiandao. The French envoy, Victor Collin de Plancy, reported that Korean government would benefit by taxing Jiandao's inhabitants, and would increase jobs and influence by sending officials there. He also reported that the Russian legation opposed an invasion because this might cause the loss of Russian territory. In 1901, Korea deployed police in Jiandao, and this continued until 1906. The Korean Government sent Yi Beom-yun, who was not part of the Imperial Korean Army, as a Jiandao observer to invade Jiandao in 1903. In Jiandao, Yi established Sa-po dae, which was a militia consisting of both a righteous army, and Imperial Korean Army. This army fought against Japan during the Russo-Japanese War. In 1904, the Japanese embassy in Korea reported the Korean government as claiming that there was no document that explicitly recorded Jiandao as part of the Qing territory.

After the Russo-Japanese War, Japan began the process that led to the formal annexation of Korea. In 1905, the Korean Empire became a protectorate of the Empire of Japan, effectively losing diplomatic rights, and became a part of the Imperial Japan in 1910. In the early 20th century, Korean immigration to Manchuria steadily increased, either from refugees fleeing Japanese rule, or from encouragement by the Japanese government of Korea  of emigration to develop the land. Some local Chinese governments welcomed the Korean immigrants, as they were a source of labor and agricultural skill.

In the meantime, Japan began to expand into northeast China. One of the regions the Japanese targeted was Jiandao (known in Korean as Gando). The Japanese claimed that Jiandao included territory of four counties (Yanji, Wangqing, Helong and Hunchun) of Jilin Province. The Japanese further claimed ethnic Koreans living in this region should be placed under the jurisdiction of Imperial Japan.

The Japanese first infiltrated Jiandao in April 1907 to collect information and data. On August 7, 1907, Japanese troops invaded Jiandao and claimed that the "Jiandao Issue" was "unsettled" (see: Gando Massacre).

In the Gando Convention of 1909, Japan affirmed territorial rights of the Qing over Jiandao after the Chinese foreign ministry issued a thirteen-point refutation statement asserting its rightful ownership. Japan agreed to withdraw its invading troops back to Korea in two months. The treaty also contained provisions for the protection and rights of ethnic Koreans under Chinese rule. Nevertheless, there were large Korean settlements and the area remained under significant Japanese influence.

Despite the agreement, Koreans in Jiandao continued to be a source of friction between the Chinese and Japanese governments. Japan maintained that all ethnic Koreans were Japanese nationals, subject to Japanese jurisdiction and law, and demanded rights to patrol and police the area. The Qing and subsequent local Chinese governments insisted on its territorial sovereignty over the region.

After the Mukden Incident of 1931, the Japanese military (the Kwantung Army) invaded Manchuria. Between 1931 and 1945, Manchuria was under the control of Manchukuo, a Japanese puppet state. From 1934 the area formed a new Jiandao Province of Manchukuo after the old Jilin Province was split into Binjiang, Jiandao and a rump Jilin. This period initiated a new wave of Korean immigration, as the Japanese government actively encouraged (or forced) Korean settlement in order to colonize and develop the region. The Japanese also moved to suppress resistance in the region. Within three and half years (from September 1931 to March 1935), Japanese regular forces and police murdered 4520 people. During and after the 1930s, many ethnic Koreans in the region joined and participated in the Chinese Communist Party.

In December 1938, a counterinsurgency unit called the Gando Special Force was organized by the Japanese Kwantung Army to combat communist guerrillas within the region. The top commander of this battalion-size force was Japanese. Historian Philip Jowett noted that during the Japanese occupation of Manchuria, the Gando Special Force had "earned a reputation for brutality and was reported to have laid waste to large areas which came under its rule."

On 1 October 1943, Jiandao Province was incorporated as a district into the Dongman Consolidated Province but this district was itself abolished on 28 May 1945 and Jiandao was once again a province.

After World War II and the liberation of Korea, many Korean expatriates in the region moved back to Korea, but a significant number remained in Manchuria; descendants of these people form much of the Korean ethnic minority in China today. The area was first nominally part of the Republic of China's new Songjiang Province but with the communist seizure of power in 1949, Sonjiang's borders were changed and Jiandao became part of Jilin.

The area is now the Yanbian Korean Autonomous Prefecture in Jilin.

Boundary claims
The claims by some of the Korean irredentists over Gando stem from what is perceived as an ambiguity in the original Sino-Korean boundary agreement.

After several attempts by the Kangxi Emperor to negotiate the issue, in 1712, the Joseon of Korea and Qing of China agreed to delineate the boundaries of the two countries at the Yalu and Tumen Rivers. The Qing delegation was led by Mukedeng, and the Joseon delegation was led by Pak Kwon, and the two held a joint commission to survey and demarcate the boundaries between the two states. Efforts were taken to locate the sources of the Yalu and Tumen rivers at Baekdu Mountain. Owing to Pak's age, they agreed for Mukedeng's team to ascend the summit alone. Mukedeng's team quickly identified the source of the Yalu, but identification for the Tumen proved more complicated. At last a spot was decided, and a stele was erected as a boundary marker. Over the next year, a fence was built to demarcate the areas where the Tumen river ran underground.

Pak Kwon was instructed by the Joseon government to retain all territory south of the Yalu and Tumen rivers, a goal he accomplished. However, some Korean officials lamented the loss of claims on areas north of the river and criticized Pak Kwon for not accompanying Mukedeng to the summit. The territorial claims stem from the territories held by Goguryeo and Balhae. Nonetheless, the border remained uncontentious for the next 150 years. Cross-border movements were forbidden, and was punishable by death after trespassers were detained and repatriated back to their respective countries.

In the 1870s the Qing government reversed its policy of prohibiting entry to Manchuria, and began allowing Han Chinese settlers into the territory in response to growing Russian encroachment. The area around Gando was opened up to settlement in 1881, but Chinese settlers quickly discovered some Korean farming communities already settled in the area. It was apparent that despite the decreed punishment, severe droughts in northern Korea had motivated Korean farmers to seek new lands. The Jilin general-governor Ming-An's official response was to lodge a protest to the Joseon government and offer to allow the Korean population to stay if they agreed to become Qing subjects and adopt Qing customs and dress. Joseon's response was to encourage the farmers not to register as Qing subjects but to return to Korea within the year.

The farmers, unwilling to abandon their homes, argued that because of the ambiguity in the naming of the Tumen river, they were actually already in Korean territory. The Yalu River boundary is of little dispute, but the interpretation of the Tumen River boundary 土門 (토문) causes problems. The name of the river itself originates from the Jurchen word tumen, meaning "ten thousand". The official boundary agreement in 1712 identified the Tumen river using the characters 土門 (Tǔmen) for the phonetic transcription. However, the modern Tumen River is written as 圖們 (Túmen) in modern Chinese and as 豆滿 in both modern Korean (두만 Duman) and Japanese (とまん Toman). Some Koreans hence claim that the "Tumen" referred to in the treaty is actually a tributary of the Songhua River. Under this interpretation, Gando (where the Koreans settled) would be part of Korean territory.

This confusion arises as the two names sound identical, and neither name is of Chinese origin. The two rivers can be seen in the following map from the period. Korean claims are based on maps showing the border river as 土門 and the claim that this is a different river than the one used for the modern border. However, it is uncertain which modern river the Korean claim corresponds to, as there is no modern tributary of the Songhua River with that name:

 * Satellite view of same location; Baekdu Mountain, Lake Tianchi, and the Tumen River are visible
 * Satellite view of the Songhua river and Baekdu Mountain, for comparison purposes

This interpretation of the boundary gradually developed into Joseon official policy. O Yunjung, a Korean official appointed to review the claims made by the farmers and investigate the sources of the river, adopted the latter interpretation and declared that the region did not belong to China. Joseon and Qing officials met in 1885 and 1887 to resolve the dispute, but with little result. Korean officials suggested on starting from the stele and tracing the river downwards, while Qing officials proposed starting at the mouth of the Tumen River and moving upstream. From 1905 onwards, Korea came under the influence and control of Japan and was unable to effectively pursue these claims.

After the liberation of Korea in 1945, some Koreans believed that Jiandao should be given to Korean rule, but the military control by United States of America in the south and Union of Soviet Socialist Republics in the north hindered any unified Korean claim to the territory. The chaos of the Korean War and the geopolitical situation of the Cold War effectively diminished any opportunity for Koreans to highlight the Gando issue. In 1962, North Korea and China signed the Sino–North Korean Border Treaty, which set the Korean border at Yalu and Tumen, effectively foregoing territorial claims to Gando. South Korea also recognizes this as the boundary between Korea and China.

Today, none of the governments involved (North Korea, South Korea, China, or Japan) make the claim that Gando is Korean territory. In addition, there is very little enthusiasm for irredentism among the Korean minority in China. Although there are occasional arguments over historical interpretation, this issue arouses very little emotion or official interest on the part of any of the parties, and relations between China and both Koreas remain warm.

In 2004 the South Korean government issued a statement to the effect that it believed that the Gando Convention was null and void. The resultant controversy and strong negative reaction from the PRC led to a retraction of the statement, along with an explanation that its issuance was an "administrative error."

A small number of South Korean activists believe that under a unified Korea, the treaties signed by North Korea can be deemed null, allowing the unified Korea to actively seek regress for Gando. However, the current political situation makes this a faint possibility at best. Also, some scholars claim that China's efforts to incorporate the history of Goguryeo and Balhae into Chinese history is an effectively pre-emptive move to squash any territorial disputes that might arise regarding Gando before a unified Korea can claim such or the Korean ethnic minority in the Manchuria region claim to become part of Korea.

Images
The following maps, made by Korea from the 18th century to the 19th century, show Sino-Korean borders to be aligned along the Yalu and Tumen Rivers, essentially the same as those today (between China and North Korea):

However there is an exception in the last map, as it shows the border visibly protruding north of the Tumen River. Some Korean claims to Gando are based on other maps. The following were made by western missionaries. However, the first is explicitly stated as a map of "Quan-Tong Province" (now Liaoning province, China) and Kau-li (Korea), and the second is stated as a map of the Chinese Tartary (la Tartarie Chinoise). Compared to the Korean-made maps above, the coastlines and rivers are also significantly less accurate, but the Sino-Korean border is not placed at the Yalu/Amnok River, which is quite clear in the following maps:

Note that two almost identical versions of a first map exists, showing significant differences in the border. One shows the boundaries similar to modern-day province and country borders, while the other shows the Sino-Korean border significantly further north.

title: Jiandao


text:
Oldsmobile Bravada

The Oldsmobile Bravada is a mid-size luxury SUV that was sold by Oldsmobile from 1991 to 2004. The only SUV ever marketed by Oldsmobile, the Bravada was the first light truck offered by General Motors outside of the Chevrolet and GMC divisions since 1924. The flagship of the GM midsize SUV line, the Bravada served as the most luxurious GM SUV prior to the introduction of the GMC Yukon Denali and Cadillac Escalade.

The first two generations of the Bravada were derived from the Chevrolet (S-10) Blazer and GMC Jimmy, offered solely as a five-door wagon. The third generation of the model line adopted a dedicated SUV platform, shared with the Chevrolet TrailBlazer and GMC Envoy. Coinciding with the 2004 retirement of the Oldsmobile brand, GM rebranded the Bravada from 2005 to 2009 as the Buick Rainier and the Saab 9-7X (becoming the first SUV for both brands).

First generation (1991–1994)
For 1991, Oldsmobile introduced the Bravada as its first-ever sport-utility vehicle. Launched alongside the newly introduced four-door version of the Chevrolet S-10 Blazer, the Bravada was the first Oldsmobile truck-based vehicle since the 1920s. In contrast to its divisional counterparts, the Bravada was sold only as a four-door SUV; no two-door body nor any pickup truck version was produced. The first generation was sold exclusively in the United States.

The first luxury SUV produced by GM, the Bravada was designed with its a distinctive exterior separate from its divisional counterparts. In contrast to the larger Jeep Grand Wagoneer (discontinued after 1991), the Bravada was not fitted with wagon-style woodgrain exterior trim; instead, the body adopted a nearly monochromatic appearance with lower body cladding (similar to the GMC Typhoon). A body-color headlight surround was styled with a traditional Oldsmobile split grille; aluminum wheels were standard equipment. Other standard features included standard remote keyless entry, anti-lock brakes (ABS), and the use of SmartTrak all-wheel drive.

As with its Chevrolet/GMC counterpart, the Bravada was fitted with a standard 4.3L V6; for 1992, its output was increased from 160 hp to 200 hp. In contrast to the part-time four-wheel drive system of the Blazer/Jimmy, the Bravada was fitted with SmartTrak full-time all-wheel drive. Shared with the GMC Typhoon and the AWD Astro/Safari vans, SmartTrak used a BorgWarner 4472 transfer case; though forgoing low-range gearing, the system offered a 65%/35% rear/front torque split, shifting it when the system detected slippage.

During its production, the first-generation Bravada underwent minor detail changes. For 1992, the instrument panel was revised to further distinguish itself from the Blazer/Jimmy. For 1993, an overhead console was added (including a compass, temperature, and reading lights). As an option, a Gold package featured gold-colored badging and wheels.

Engines

 * 1991 – 4.3 L LB4 V6, TBI, 160 hp (119 kW)/230 lb·ft (312 N·m) (VIN Z)
 * 1992–1994 – 4.3 L L35 Vortec 4300 V6, CPFI, 200 hp (149 kW) (VIN W)

Fuel economy
According to the United States Environmental Protection Agency, the first-generation Bravada averaged 14-15 mpgus in the city, and 20 mpgus on the highway.

Second generation (1996–2001)
After skipping the 1995 model year, Oldsmobile released its second-generation Bravada for 1996. Again sharing a body with the Chevrolet Blazer/GMC Jimmy, the Bravada was again produced only in a four-door body configuration. Distinguished by its lower bodyside trim (matching the bumpers) and the split front grille, the Bravada was fitted with six-spoke aluminum wheels (in line with the Aurora).

Though sharing a dashboard with its counterparts (with driver-side airbag), the Bravada was fitted with woodgrain trim, leather seats, and interior trim (styled similarly to the Aurora), and a console-mounted transmission shifter (becoming a special-edition option on the Blazer in 1999).

Retuned to 190 hp, the 4.3-liter V6 with sequential central port injection was again the standard engine, still fitted with the SmartTrak all-wheel drive system as standard. For 1997, four-wheel disc brakes (with ABS) became standard; the rear spoiler was deleted.

1998
For 1998, the second-generation Bravada underwent a mid-cycle facelift. Along with redesigned bumpers and lower body trim, the front fascia was redesigned with a larger grille, replacing the Oldsmobile "Delta Rocket" emblem with the new "Rocket O" emblem. The interior was revised, adopting heated seats and a dual-airbag dashboard. The SmartTrak system underwent a redesign, adopting the computer controlled NP-136 transfer case. In the interest of fuel economy, the system operated as rear-wheel drive in normal operations, sending torque to the front wheels only when detecting wheel slip.

For 1999, OnStar was introduced as a cellular-phone unit; in 2001, the system was integrated into the rearview mirror with available features like hands-free calling and virtual advisor. A Bose sound system also became an available option for 1999.

For 2000, a two-tone exterior option was introduced for the first time (named the Platinum Edition).

Fuel economy
According to the United States Environmental Protection Agency, the second-generation Bravada averaged 14-15 mpgus in the city, and 18-20 mpgus on the highway.

Third generation (2002–2004)
Oldsmobile launched the third generation of the Bravada in February 2001 for the 2002 model year. Serving as the launch model of the all-new GMT360 architecture (a platform dedicated to mid-size SUVs), the Bravada was now the counterpart of the Chevrolet TrailBlazer, GMC Envoy, and Isuzu Ascender. Now fitted with a distinct body (sharing only its doors with the GMC Envoy), the model line was styled in line with the Oldsmobile Aurora and Alero sedans, including a rounded front fascia and integrating the grilles into the bumpers and headlamp clusters. Reportedly, the only parts that remained from the previous generation were the automatic transmission and the transfer case on four-wheel-drive models.

The GMT360 platform brought several functional changes to the model line. A rear-wheel drive layout, with traction control, became standard for the first time (making it the first rear-wheel-drive Oldsmobile since the 1992 Custom Cruiser), with all-wheel drive retained as an option. The 4.3-liter V6 was retired in favor of a 270 hp, 4.2-liter Atlas inline-six (RPO LL8) (the first Oldsmobile to offer such a layout since the 1976 Omega).

In contrast to its Chevrolet, GMC, or Isuzu counterparts, the Bravada was not offered in a long-wheelbase, seven-passenger configuration, nor with a 5.3L V8 engine.

The launch of the GMT360 Bravada coincided with the retirement of the Oldsmobile division, with the vehicle ending production after only three model years. On January 12, 2004, the final Oldsmobile Bravada rolled off the assembly line. The last 500 examples were produced as Final 500 Special Editions; each example featured custom seat embroidering and exterior badging inspired by vintage Oldsmobile logos, dark cherry metallic paint, unique chrome alloy wheels, and a medallion identifying the production number of the vehicle (1 to 500).

Though GM discontinued the Oldsmobile Bravada, its body lived on in two different vehicles: the Buick Rainier (2004–2007) served as its direct replacement with the flagship Saab 9-7X (2005–2009) also using its bodyshell.

Fuel economy
According to the United States Environmental Protection Agency, the third-generation Bravada averaged 13–14 mpgus in the city, and 19–20 mpgus on the highway.

Sales
Sales by calendar year:

title: Oldsmobile Bravada