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Marvels

Marvels is a four-issue miniseries comic book written by Kurt Busiek, painted by Alex Ross and edited by Marcus McLaurin. It was published by Marvel Comics in 1994.

Set in the 1939 to 1974 time period, the series examines the Marvel Universe, the collective setting of most of Marvel's superhero series, from the perspective of an Everyman character, news photographer Phil Sheldon. The street-level series portrayed ordinary life in a world full of costumed superhumans, with each issue featuring events well known to readers of Marvel comics, as well as a variety of minute details and a retelling of the most famous events in the Marvel universe.

Marvels won multiple awards and established the careers of Busiek and Ross, who would both return to the "everyday life in a superhero universe" theme in the Image Comics (later Homage Comics and currently DC Comics) series, Astro City.

Warren Ellis's Ruins returned to this theme in 1995 with a twisted story of an alternate universe in which everything that can go wrong does go wrong, but an actual sequel was not developed until 2008 with the release of Marvels: Eye of the Camera, but only Busiek was involved. A single issue epilogue was released in late 2019 with both Busiek and Ross returning.

Publication history
Marvels was a four-issue miniseries (cover dated January–April 1994) by writer Kurt Busiek, with painted art by Alex Ross and editing by Marcus McLaurin. It was followed by issue #0 (August 1994) containing a 12-page story of the original 1940s Human Torch by Busiek and Ross, two text articles, and 18 pages of Ross superhero pinups. The series was later collected into a trade-paperback edition.

"A Time of Marvels"
In 1939, Jim Hammond, the original Human Torch is created by scientist Phineas T. Horton, and the project is considered a success until the android catches on fire when air is projected into its glass chamber, only to go out when the air is gone. Horton shows his creation to the public, which is met with demands from the terrified civilians to destroy it. A dejected Horton begins to bury the android, but the chamber cracks, allowing in air and enabling the Human Torch to escape. The android describes his appearance as the beginning of a "golden age".

Meanwhile, Phil Sheldon, an aspiring photographer, and a young J. Jonah Jameson are shocked by the sudden emergence of multiple super-powered individuals, whom Sheldon dubs "Marvels". Sheldon is more confused than Jameson by the spectacle and, worried, seeks the support of his fiancée, Doris Jacquet. More unusual beings begin to appear, notably Namor the Sub-Mariner, and fights erupt between him and the Human Torch. Sheldon, feeling it would be irresponsible for him to raise children in a world where these Marvels run rampant, breaks off his engagement with Doris. It is only when Captain America is unveiled to the world that Sheldon becomes less apprehensive about the Marvels. When World War II begins, Sheldon, Doris, and many others see the Marvels in newsreels joining forces with the Allies, providing public reassurance. After rekindling his romance with Doris, Sheldon hears that the Human Torch and Namor are fighting again, and the battle this time damages several New York City landmarks. During the fight, the duo come near but do not directly encounter Sheldon; he is knocked out by a small chunk of masonry and permanently blinded in his left eye. Still, he has lost all fears of the Marvels and goes on to marry Doris. Sheldon becomes a war correspondent in Europe, reporting on the Allied Forces and the Marvels as they combat the Nazis.

"Monsters"
In the early 1960s, Sheldon is now the father of two girls, Beth and Jennie, and he is preparing to write a book called Marvels. New York now has two superhero teams, the Fantastic Four and the Avengers. Sheldon is excited by recent news of the return of Captain America, a hero from his youth, but the public has begun to fear mutants, especially the mutant team known as the X-Men. As he covers an anti-mutant mob that comes face-to-face with the X-Men, he hears X-Men leader Cyclops refuse to engage with the mob, saying "they're not worth it" and leaving. Sheldon, unsure of their meaning, finds the words staying with him. Despite the public's distrust of the X-Men, some Marvels are treated as celebrities, as seen by Sheldon at the gala opening of Alicia Masters' sculptures, where gossip spreads over the upcoming marriage of the Fantastic Four's Reed Richards and Susan Storm. Sheldon leaves the gala and rushes home after hearing about an anti-mutant mob near there, and he finds his daughters hiding their friend, a mutant girl with a skull-like head. Sheldon sees the importance of hiding this girl, but is worried for his family. Following the wedding, mutant-hunting robots called Sentinels are unleashed by Bolivar Trask during a televised debate with Charles Xavier; they malfunction and begin rampaging throughout the city. A mob forms in the chaos, attacking and destroying everything in sight, with only Sheldon helping the injured. The newly repaired Sentinels stop the mob, but Sheldon returns home to find the mutant girl gone.

"Judgement Day"
As the 1960s progress, Sheldon is preoccupied with his work, to the detriment of his family. The news is filled with stories of the Avengers being declared a menace, the law going after Tony Stark, sightings of Spider-Man, and a possible Judgement Day. The Silver Surfer appears to the world and defeats the Fantastic Four, heralding the appearance of Galactus. With the city in panic, Sheldon believes the Earth will end, and he returns home to be with his family in the final moments. Suddenly, news comes that the Fantastic Four have managed to defeat Galactus, saving the planet. In the wake of the team's victory, Sheldon promises he will spend more time with his family. However, he is later disgusted by the way the public has again turned on the heroes, with Jameson (now the publisher of the Daily Bugle and Sheldon's most frequent employer) claiming that the Galactus threat was a hoax. Sheldon rages at a crowd carrying on an anti-mutant conversation.

"The Day She Died"
In the early 1970s, Sheldon publishes Marvels, which becomes an instant bestseller. He remains dismayed at the public's reaction to the Marvels and is disgusted by Jameson and his screeds against Spider-Man, who has been framed for the death of NYPD Captain George Stacy. Sheldon resolves to investigate the murder and clear Spider-Man's name. While talking to a witness with Luke Cage, he learns that not only do the police believe Spider-Man is innocent, but that they suspect Otto Octavius to be the real killer. Sheldon interviews Octavius, but he refuses to confess to the murder. Sheldon then interviews Stacy's daughter Gwen and develops a friendship with her. Gwen's admiration and trust in the Marvels gives Sheldon a sudden insight: the purpose of the Marvels is to protect innocents like Gwen. On his way to meet her at the apartment of her boyfriend, Peter Parker, Sheldon witnesses Gwen's kidnapping by the Green Goblin. He follows the Goblin to the Brooklyn Bridge and a confrontation with Spider-Man. Watching their battle through a telephoto lens, Sheldon is certain that Spider-Man will defeat the villain and rescue Gwen. Instead, Gwen is knocked off the bridge and killed, and Sheldon's faith in the Marvels is shattered. He plans to retire, but before he can hang up his camera, he has his assistant take a final photo of himself, Doris, and a "nice, normal boy" — Danny Ketch, who, unbeknownst to Sheldon, will grow up to become the demonic hero Ghost Rider.

Epilogue
During Christmas time in the mid-1970's, Sheldon is with his daughters in Rockefeller Center when the Sentinels begin attacking. The X-Men, who were walking among the crowd, spring into action with Sheldon and his daughters left in awe at both Banshee and Storm. After the Sentinels are defeated, the cops try to monitor the situation when Nova, who admits that he is new, appears to help with any civilian casualties. Beth and Jennie ask their father if what occurred was anything like his old job, to which he answers positively, adding: "It's scary. It's exciting. It's thrilling. All of it at once". Having relived the thrill and earning the gumption to write another article, he resists and takes his daughters back home for the night.

Collected editions
In 1995, Marvels was compiled into a trade paperback that featured the Human Torch short story (2003 re-release ISBN 0-7851-0049-0). For the tenth anniversary in 2004 Marvel released a 400-page hardcover (ISBN 0-7851-1388-6). In 2008 the original was reprinted as a hardcover (ISBN 0-7851-2784-4) and softcover volume (by Panini Comics, ISBN 1-905239-97-1) and in 2012 as issue 15 of The Official Marvel Graphic Novel Collection as number 13.

Awards won

 * 1994 Eisner Award for Best Finite/Limited Series
 * 1994 Eisner Award for Best Painter - awarded to Alex Ross
 * 1994 Eisner Award for Best Publication Design - awarded Comicraft

Nominations

 * 1994 Eisner Award for Best Cover Artist - awarded to Alex Ross
 * 1994 Eisner Award for Best Single Issue - for Marvels #2 "Monsters"

Sequels
Marvel later published similar limited series under the "Marvels" header, with other writers and painters, though none of these titles were as successful as the original. They were collected in the paperback Marvels Companion.

In 1995, Marvel released the darker Ruins by writer Warren Ellis and painters Cliff and Terese Nielsen, which was a two-issue parallel world series in which Sheldon explored a Marvel Universe that had gone terribly wrong.

The 1997 miniseries Code of Honor, written by Chuck Dixon and painted by Tristan Shane and Brad Parker, had a similar approach to Marvels, following a police officer whose job is affected by the superheroes and villains. Busiek declared he and Ross debated on doing a Marvels sequel, only for Ross to bail out not wanting to draw Wolverine and the Punisher, and once the writer himself left the project, Busiek refitted the intended plot on "The Dark Age" arc of his title Astro City.

In 2008, the long-planned direct sequel, the six-part limited series Marvels: Eye of the Camera, began. It returns to Sheldon's perspective, after his retirement. While Ross did not return for this sequel, Busiek returned as writer, with Roger Stern as co-writer for issues #3–6, with artwork by Jay Anacleto.

A new series titled The Marvels by Busiek debuted in April 2021.

Kingdom Come
Ross also did the artwork for the DC Comics mini-series Kingdom Come. Phil Sheldon makes a cameo at the superhero press conference held at the headquarters of the United Nations in Kingdom Come #2. He also makes an appearance in the last page of the epilogue in the Kingdom Come trade paperback. He is seated next to the Spectre in his civilian guise of Jim Corrigan and Norman McCay.

Spider-Man: Blue
Phil Sheldon is mentioned in Peter's first scene in the Daily Bugle in Spider-Man: Blue. J. Jonah Jameson requests Sheldon to cover the photo op of Harry Osborn in the hospital. He is reminded that "Phil is covering the Tony Stark trial".

Marvels X
In the third issue of Marvels X, the prequel to Earth X, Phil Sheldon is mentioned.

Television
Phil Sheldon makes a cameo appearance on The Super Hero Squad Show episode "This Al Dente Earth!", voiced by Charlie Adler. He takes a picture of Iron Man, Silver Surfer, and Galactus after Silver Surfer convinces Galactus not to devour the Earth.

Podcast
In fall 2019, a radio drama podcast adaptation of Marvels was released with the first season focusing on the aftermath of the Fantastic Four's battle with Galactus in New York City, New York, starring Clifford "Method Man" Smith as Ben Urich, AnnaSophia Robb as Marcia Hardesty, Ethan Peck as Reed Richards / Mister Fantastic, Seth Barrish as Phil Sheldon, Louisa Krause as Susan Storm / Invisible Woman, Jake Hart as Ben Grimm / The Thing, Ehad Berisha as Johnny Storm / Human Torch, Teo Rapp-Olsson as Peter Parker / Spider-Man, and Gabriela Ortega as Charlie Martinez. The adaptation was written by Lauren Shippen, directed by Paul Bae, with music by Evan Cunningham, and sound design by Mischa Stanton. Stanton was nominated for two 2020 Audio Verse Awards for their work on the podcast.

Video games
Phil Sheldon appears in Avengers (2020), voiced by Walt Gray. This version is depicted as a journalist rather than a photographer.

title: Marvels


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Savings and loan association

A savings and loan association (S&L), or thrift institution, is a financial institution that specializes in accepting savings deposits and making mortgage and other loans. While the terms "S&L" and "thrift" are mainly used in the United States, similar institutions in the United Kingdom, Ireland and some Commonwealth countries include building societies and trustee savings banks. They are often mutually held (often called mutual savings banks), meaning that the depositors and borrowers are members with voting rights, and have the ability to direct the financial and managerial goals of the organization like the members of a credit union or the policyholders of a mutual insurance company. While it is possible for an S&L to be a joint-stock company, and even publicly traded, in such instances it is no longer truly a mutual association, and depositors and borrowers no longer have membership rights and managerial control. By law, thrifts can have no more than 20percent of their lending in commercial loans—their focus on mortgage and consumer loans makes them particularly vulnerable to housing downturns such as the deep one the U.S. experienced in 2007.

Early history
At the beginning of the 19th century, banking was still something only done by those who had assets or wealth that needed safekeeping. The first savings bank in the United States, the Philadelphia Saving Fund Society, was established on December 20, 1816, and by the 1830s, such institutions had become widespread.

In the United Kingdom, the first savings bank was founded in 1810 by Henry Duncan, the minister of Ruthwell Church in Dumfriesshire, Scotland. It is home to the Savings Bank Museum, in which there are records relating to the history of the savings bank movement in the United Kingdom, as well as family memorabilia relating to Henry Duncan and other prominent people of the surrounding area. However, the main type of institution similar to U.S. savings and loan associations in the United Kingdom is not the savings bank, but the building society and had existed since the 1770s.

U.S. savings and loan in the 20th century
The savings and loan association became a strong force in the early 20th century through assisting people with home ownership, through mortgage lending, and further assisting their members with basic saving and investing outlets, typically through passbook savings accounts and term certificates of deposit.

The savings and loan associations of this era were famously portrayed in the 1946 film It's a Wonderful Life.

Mortgage lending
The earliest mortgages were not offered by banks, but by insurance companies, and they differed greatly from the mortgage or home loan that is familiar today. Most early mortgages were short with some kind of balloon payment at the end of the term, or they were interest-only loans which did not pay anything toward the principal of the loan with each payment. As such, many people were either perpetually in debt in a continuous cycle of refinancing their home purchase, or they lost their home through foreclosure when they were unable to make the balloon payment at the end of the term of that loan.

The US Congress passed the Federal Home Loan Bank Act in 1932, during the Great Depression. It established the Federal Home Loan Bank and associated Federal Home Loan Bank Board to assist other banks in providing funding to offer long term, amortized loans for home purchases. The idea was to get banks involved in lending, not insurance companies, and to provide realistic loans which people could repay and gain full ownership of their homes.

Savings and loan associations sprang up all across the United States because there was low-cost funding available through the Federal Home Loan Bank Act.

Further advantages
Savings and loans were given a certain amount of preferential treatment by the Federal Reserve inasmuch as they were given the ability to pay higher interest rates on savings deposits compared to a regular commercial bank. This was known as Regulation Q (The Interest Rate Adjustment Act of 1966) and gave the S&Ls 50 basis points above what banks could offer. The idea was that with marginally higher savings rates, savings and loans would attract more deposits that would allow them to continue to write more mortgage loans, which would keep the mortgage market liquid, and funds would always be available to potential borrowers.

However, savings and loans were not allowed to offer checking accounts until the late 1970s. This reduced the attractiveness of savings and loans to consumers, since it required consumers to hold accounts across multiple institutions in order to have access to both checking privileges and competitive savings rates.

In the 1980s, the situation changed. The United States Congress granted all thrifts in 1980, including savings and loan associations, the power to make consumer and commercial loans and to issue transaction accounts. The Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act (DIDMCA) of 1980 was designed to help the banking industry to combat disintermediation of funds to higher-yielding non-deposit products such as money market mutual funds. It also allowed thrifts to make consumer loans up to 20 percent of their assets, issue credit cards, and provide negotiable order of withdrawal (NOW) accounts to consumers and nonprofit organizations. Over the next several years, this was followed by provisions that allowed banks and thrifts to offer a wide variety of new market-rate deposit products. For S&Ls, this deregulation of one side of the balance sheet essentially led to more inherent interest rate risk inasmuch as they were funding long-term, fixed-rate mortgage loans with volatile shorter-term deposits.

In 1982, the Garn-St. Germain Depository Institutions Act was passed and increased the proportion of assets that thrifts could hold in consumer and commercial real estate loans and allowed thrifts to invest 5 percent of their assets in commercial, corporate, business, or agricultural loans until January 1, 1984, when this percentage increased to 10 percent.

Decline
During the savings and loan crisis, from 1986 to 1995, the number of federally insured savings and loan institutions in the United States declined from 3,234 to 1,645. Analysts mostly attribute this to unsound real estate lending. The market share of S&Ls for single family mortgage loans went from 53% in 1975 to 30% in 1990.

The following is a detailed summary of the major causes for losses that hurt the S&L business in the 1980s according to the United States League of Savings Associations:

 * 1) Lack of net worth for many institutions as they entered the 1980s, and a wholly inadequate net worth regulation.
 * 2) Decline in the effectiveness of Regulation Q in preserving the spread between the cost of money and the rate of return on assets, basically stemming from inflation and the accompanying increase in market interest rates.
 * 3) Inability to vary the return on assets with increases in the rate of interest required to be paid for deposits.
 * 4) Increased competition on the deposit gathering and mortgage origination sides of the business, with a sudden burst of new technology making possible a whole new way of conducting financial institutions generally and the mortgage business specifically.
 * 5) A rapid increase in investment powers of associations with passage of the Depository Institutions Deregulation and Monetary Control Act (the Garn-St Germain Act), and, more important, through state legislative enactments in a number of important and rapidly growing states. These introduced new risks and speculative opportunities which were difficult to administer. In many instances management lacked the ability or experience to evaluate them, or to administer large volumes of nonresidential construction loans.
 * 6) Elimination of regulations initially designed to prevent lending excesses and minimize failures. Regulatory relaxation permitted lending, directly and through participations, in distant loan markets on the promise of high returns. Lenders, however, were not familiar with these distant markets. It also permitted associations to participate extensively in speculative construction activities with builders and developers who had little or no financial stake in the projects.
 * 7) Fraud and insider transaction abuses, especially in the case of state-chartered and regulated thrifts, where regulatory supervision at the state level was lax, thinly-spread, and/or insufficient (e.g.: Texas, Arizona).
 * 8) A new type and generation of opportunistic savings and loan executives and owners — some of whom operated in a fraudulent manner — whose takeover of many institutions was facilitated by a change in FSLIC rules reducing the minimum number of stockholders of an insured association from 400 to one.
 * 9) Dereliction of duty on the part of the board of directors of some savings associations. This permitted management to make uncontrolled use of some new operating authority, while directors failed to control expenses and prohibit obvious conflict of interest situations.
 * 10) A virtual end of inflation in the American economy, together with overbuilding in multifamily, condominium-type residences and in commercial real estate in many cities. In addition, real estate values collapsed in the energy states — Texas, Louisiana, Oklahoma particularly due to falling oil prices — and weakness occurred in the mining and agricultural sectors of the economy.
 * 11) Pressures felt by the management of many associations to restore net worth ratios. Anxious to improve earnings, they departed from their traditional lending practices into credits and markets involving higher risks, but with which they had little experience.
 * 12) The lack of appropriate, accurate, and effective evaluations of the savings and loan business by public accounting firms, security analysts, and the financial community.
 * 13) Organizational structure and supervisory laws, adequate for policing and controlling the business in the protected environment of the 1960s and 1970s, resulted in fatal delays and indecision in the examination/supervision process in the 1980s.
 * 14)  Federal and state examination and supervisory staffs insufficient in number, experience, or ability to deal with the new world of savings and loan operations.
 * 15) The inability or unwillingness of the Federal Home Loan Bank Board and its legal and supervisory staff to deal with problem institutions in a timely manner. Many institutions, which ultimately closed with big losses, were known problem cases for a year or more. Often, it appeared, political considerations delayed necessary supervisory action.

While not specifically identified above, a related specific factor was that S&Ls and their lending management were often inexperienced with the complexities and risks associated with commercial and more complex loans as distinguished from their roots with "simple" home mortgage loans.

Consequences of U.S. government acts and reforms
As a result, the Financial Institutions Reform, Recovery and Enforcement Act of 1989 (FIRREA) dramatically changed the savings and loan industry and its federal regulation. Here are the highlights of this legislation, signed into law on August 9, 1989:

 * 1) The Federal Home Loan Bank Board (FHLBB) and the Federal Savings and Loan Insurance Corporation (FSLIC) were abolished.
 * 2) The Office of Thrift Supervision (OTS), a bureau of the United States Treasury Department, was created to charter, regulate, examine, and supervise savings institutions.
 * 3) The Federal Housing Finance Board (FHFB) was created as an independent agency to oversee the 12 Federal Home Loan Banks (also called district banks), formerly overseen by the FHLBB.
 * 4) The Savings Association Insurance Fund (SAIF) replaced the FSLIC as an ongoing insurance fund for thrift institutions. (Like the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation (FDIC), FSLIC was a permanent corporation that insured savings and loan accounts up to $100,000.) SAIF was administered by the FDIC alongside its sister fund for banks, Bank Insurance Fund (BIF) until 2006 when the Federal Deposit Insurance Reform Act of 2005 (effective February 2006) provided, among other provisions, that the two funds merge to constitute the Depositor Insurance Fund (DIF), which would continue to be administered by the FDIC.
 * 5) The Resolution Trust Corporation (RTC) was established to dispose of failed thrift institutions taken over by regulators after January 1, 1989.
 * 6) FIRREA gave both Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae additional responsibility to support mortgages for low- and moderate-income families.

The Tax Reform Act of 1986 had also eliminated the ability for investors to reduce regular wage income by so-called "passive" losses incurred from real estate investments, e.g., depreciation and interest deductions. This caused real estate value to decline as investors pulled out of this sector.

Characteristics
The most important purpose of savings and loan associations is to make mortgage loans on residential property. These organizations, which also are known as savings associations, building and loan associations, cooperative banks (in New England), and homestead associations (in Louisiana), are the primary source of financial assistance to a large segment of American homeowners. As home-financing institutions, they give primary attention to single-family residences and are equipped to make loans in this area.

Some of the most important characteristics of a savings and loan association are that:

 * 1) It is generally a locally owned and privately managed home financing institution.
 * 2) It receives individuals' savings and uses these funds to make long-term amortized loans to home purchasers.
 * 3) It makes loans for the construction, purchase, repair, or refinancing of houses.
 * 4) It is state or federally chartered.

Differences from savings banks
Accounts at savings banks were insured by the FDIC. When the Western Savings Bank of Philadelphia failed in 1982, it was the FDIC that arranged its absorption into the Philadelphia Savings Fund Society (PSFS). Savings banks were limited by law to only offer savings accounts and to make their income from mortgages and student loans. Savings banks could pay one-third of 1% higher interest on savings than could a commercial bank. PSFS circumvented this by offering "payment order" accounts which functioned as checking accounts and were processed through the Fidelity Bank of Pennsylvania. The rules were loosened so that savings banks could offer automobile loans, credit cards, and actual checking accounts. In time PSFS became a full commercial bank.

Accounts at savings and loans were insured by the FSLIC. Some savings and loans did become savings banks, such as First Federal Savings Bank of Pontiac in Michigan. What gave away their heritage was that their accounts continued to be insured by the FSLIC.

Savings and loans accepted deposits and used those deposits, along with other capital that was in their possession, to make loans. What was revolutionary was that the management of the savings and loan was determined by those that held deposits and in some instances had loans. The amount of influence in the management of the organization was determined based on the amount on deposit with the institution.

The overriding goal of the savings and loan association was to encourage savings and investment by common people and to give them access to a financial intermediary that otherwise had not been open to them in the past. The savings and loan was also there to provide loans for the purchase of large ticket items, usually homes, for worthy and responsible borrowers. The early savings and loans were in the business of "neighbors helping neighbors".

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Savings and loan association


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User:CanisRufus

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Whiston, South Yorkshire

Whiston is a village and civil parish in the Metropolitan Borough of Rotherham in South Yorkshire, England. It has a population of 5,115, reducing to 5,042 at the 2011 Census.

Originally a small rural village between Sheffield and Rotherham, within the Saxon "Shire of Hallun" (Hallamshire), Whiston is now a suburb of Rotherham, close to its border with Sheffield.

According to A Dictionary of British Place-Names, the name Whiston comes from two Old English words wite and stan – meaning "The whitestone" which is likely to be in reference to a nearby quarry where large amounts of white stone were once mined. It is referred to as Witestan, in the Domesday Book of 1086, at which time it was part of the same manor as Handsworth (Handswrde), now a suburb of Sheffield. Close to Whiston is Blue Man's Bower, a moated site and scheduled monument.

Even in 1900 Whiston was still a small rural village, separated from Rotherham by open countryside. As the century progressed, and particularly after 1945, many fields were built upon and Rotherham expanded to incorporate Whiston although there is still something of a green belt separating Whiston from other local villages

On 25 June 2007 part of the village was evacuated because of fears that cracks in the dam at Ulley reservoir could lead to widespread flooding in the valley.

The village has two cricket clubs, Whiston Parish Church CC and Whiston Forge CC.

The village football team, Whiston Wildcats, play in the Sheffield and District league. They are in the A division due to a B division promotion in the 2013/14 season.

2016 saw the founding of the village's only cycling club – Sitwell Cycling Club – a British Cycling affiliated club for all ages. The club was crowned Rotherham Advertiser's Sports Club of the Year in 2018. 2019 saw the club's membership increase to over 150 members, making them the largest club in Rotherham. The club also started under 12s coaching, gaining British Cycling Go-Ride status in October of the same year.

title: Whiston, South Yorkshire


text: Category:German boxers

title: Category:German boxers


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Talk:99%

Deletion
On 29 July 2004, this article was nominated for deletion. Failing to reach a clear consensus to delete, the default decision is to keep the article. See Votes for deletion/99% for a record of the debate. Rossami 00:00, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

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title: Talk:99%


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Talk:National credit union administration

On 29 July 2004, this article was nominated for deletion. See Votes for deletion/National credit union administration for a record of the debate. Rossami 00:04, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)


text: Category:Soviet sportspeople

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text: Category:Soviet people

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Boscobel House

Boscobel House is a Grade II* listed building in the parish of Boscobel in Shropshire. It has been, at various times, a farmhouse, a hunting lodge, and a holiday home; but it is most famous for its role in the escape of Charles II after the Battle of Worcester in 1651. Today it is managed by English Heritage.

Location
The building is just inside Shropshire, as is clear from all Ordnance Survey maps of the area, although part of the property boundary is contiguous with the Shropshire – Staffordshire border, and it has a Stafford post code. Boscobel is on land which belonged to White Ladies Priory in the Middle Ages, and at that time it was extra-parochial. The priory was often described as being at Brewood, which is in Staffordshire, and this may have contributed to the widespread belief that the house and priory are in Staffordshire. Brewood is the neighbouring parish, and the house is just south of the small village of Bishops Wood, a constituent part of Brewood. Although technically still a separate civil parish, Boscobel's small population means it shares a parish council with Donington, Shropshire. Local government reform in 1974 brought the parish, including Boscobel House and White Ladies, into Bridgnorth District, which in 2009 was superseded by the new unitary authority of Shropshire Council. The nearest city is Wolverhampton. The house is just north of the M54 Motorway.

Origins
Boscobel House was created around 1632, when landowner John Giffard of White Ladies Priory converted a timber-framed farmhouse, built some time in the 16th century on the lands of White Ladies Priory, into a hunting lodge.

The priory and its estate, including the farmhouse site, had been leased from the Crown by William Skeffington of Wolverhampton at the Dissolution of the Monasteries about a century earlier. It passed into the Giffard family because Skeffington left it to his widow, Joan, and she subsequently married Edward Giffard, son of Sir John Giffard (died 1556) of Chillington Hall. The reversion was sold to William Whorwood in 1540, which made him the effective owner, but one of the early lessees must have paid off Whorwood, because it was later passed on to Edward Giffard's heir, John.

John Giffard decided to make the farmhouse more useful by building a substantial extension to the south, including a living room and bedrooms more fitted to use by a gentry family. Giffard called the new hunting lodge Boscobel House. Thomas Blount (writing 1660), the main source for the events, portrays the naming as an after-dinner activity, and attributes it to Sir Basil Brook(e), a prominent recusant from Madeley, Shropshire, who was one of Giffard's guests at the housewarming party. Boscobel is believed to come from the Italian phrase bosco bello meaning "in the midst of fair woods": in 1632, Boscobel House was surrounded by dense woodlands. Also, the many branches of the Giffard family all claim ancestry from the lords of Bolbec or Bolebec and Longueville in Upper Normandy: Osbern de Bolebec became lord of Longueville in the early 11th century and his sons, Osbern Giffard and Gautier or Walter Giffard of Bolbec, were companions of William the Conqueror.

Recusancy and the escape of Charles II
The Giffard family were recusants – Catholics who refused to participate in the worship of the established Church of England. For them, this brought fines, imprisonment and discrimination; for priests it could mean barbarous execution. The Giffards took care to surround themselves with reliable retainers; until the mid-19th century, after Catholic Emancipation, their servants and tenants were mainly Catholic. The house itself served as a secret place for the shelter of Catholic priests, with at least one priest-hole. This secret purpose of the house was to play a key part in the history of the country. By 1651, when Boscobel played host to Charles II, it was owned by John Giffard's heir, his daughter, Frances Cotton. Frances had married John Cotton, a Huntingdonshire squire, in 1633, but was a widow by this time. She was not resident at the time of the events that made Boscobel House one of the most evocative sites in the English royalist imagination. It was here that Charles II hid in a tree to escape discovery by Parliamentary soldiers during his escape after the Battle of Worcester.

Initially, Charles was led to White Ladies Priory by Charles Giffard, a cousin of the owner, and his servant Francis Yates, the only man subsequently executed for his part in the escape. There, the Penderel family, tenants and servants of the Giffard family, began to play important roles in guiding and caring for him. From White Ladies, Richard Penderel led Charles in an unsuccessful attempt to cross the Severn near Madeley, Shropshire. They were forced to retrace their steps and Charles took refuge at Boscobel, where he was met by Colonel William Careless, whose brother rented land from the Giffards at Broom Hall, Brewood. Careless and the King spent all day hiding in a nearby oak tree (which became known as The Royal Oak), from where he could see the patrols searching for him. Later Charles spent the night hiding in one of Boscobel's priest holes. He was moved from Boscobel to Moseley Old Hall, another Catholic redoubt near Wolverhampton, and ultimately escaped the region posing as the servant of Jane Lane of Bentley, whose family were also landowners at Broom Hall and at the Hyde in Brewood. The Lanes, although friends and business partners of the Giffards, were not recusants but of Puritan sympathies and Jane's brother, Colonel John Lane, had taken Parliament's side in fighting around Wolverhampton during the Civil War.

Subsequent history
Frances Cotton, née Giffard, died shortly after these events, and both White Ladies and Boscobel passed via her daughter, Jane Cotton, who had married Basil Fitzherbert in 1648, to the Fitzherbert family of Norbury Hall, Derbyshire. The Fitzherberts were major landowners and let Boscobel as a farm to a succession of tenants, including several members of the Penderel family. Boscobel featured prominently in the Popish Plot: the informer Stephen Dugdale accused the guests who witnessed the Jesuit John Gavan taking his final vows there in 1678 of plotting treason, and several of them, including Gavan himself, were executed or imprisoned. The estate and Boscobel were sold to Walter Evans, a Derbyshire industrialist, in 1812, although the Fitzherbert family retained the White Ladies Priory site. It was the Evans family who restored the house and gardens, often in fanciful ways, and nourished the legend of Charles II. A substantial farm building was appended to the northern side of the house in the 19th century, giving the present house three distinct wings. It was sold to Orlando Bridgeman, 5th Earl of Bradford in 1918, who placed both it and the tree in the hands of the Ministry of Works in 1954. It passed via the Department of the Environment to English Heritage in 1984.

House
The three stages of building are readily apparent to the modern visitor. The 16th-century farm is clearly central and is easily distinguished from the 19th-century farm which adjoins it at right angles. The latter is brick-built but painted black and white to simulate timber framing. The main house, built by John Giffard around 1632, is mainly hidden behind the earlier and later structures on first approach. It is timber-framed, part brick, but covered in stucco, which was applied in the 18th century to cover up faults in the structure and materials. Its east and west ends are marked respectively by the bowed structure, probably originally housing the staircase, and the chimney stack.

Grounds
North of the house lies a large farmyard, mostly surrounded by Victorian farm buildings, although there is a large 17th-century barn. The yard provides picnic space, as well as housing a display of Victorian farm machinery and equipment.

To the south are the formal gardens. First is a parterre hedged with box, laid out in recent times but occupying approximately the area of a box garden shown in 17th-century views of Boscobel. On its south-west corner is the Mount, a mound topped by a modern shelter, where Charles spent the day reading.

Beyond the formal area is a kitchen garden with an orchard of fruit trees. Alongside runs a walk flanked on both sides by hazelnut trees.

The Royal Oak
The Royal Oak stands about 150 yards (137m) south-west of the house, in a farmer's field, but with an access path. It is believed to be a direct descendant of the original tree used by Charles and Careless to hide from the Parliamentary soldiers, although it has sometimes been presented as the actual tree. It has been surrounded by iron railings for many decades, but an outer wooden fence was added to protect visitors from falling timber after major cracks appeared in Autumn 2010. It has suffered badly from tourist depredations in the past, but its main threat is bad weather.

Three third generation descendants of the Royal Oak have been ceremonially planted nearby:
 * 1) In 1897, a tree was planted on the western edge of the garden of Boscobel House by Augustus Legge, then bishop of Lichfield, to commemorate the Diamond Jubilee of Queen Victoria.
 * 2) A further tree was planted ceremonially in 1951 near the site of the original Royal Oak by the Orlando Bridgeman, 5th Earl of Bradford, who was the owner of Boscobel House at the time, to mark the tercentenary of Charles II's escape.
 * 3) Another oak sapling grown from one of the Son's acorns was planted in 2001 by Prince Charles.

Opening
Boscobel House and its grounds are generally open from Wednesday to Sunday each week in the summer (April to October). There are entrance charges, although entry is free to English Heritage members. Free educational group visits are available by arrangement.

title: Boscobel House


text:
Talk:Total Football

 * Some self-promoting user remarks available in the history of this discussion page

There ought to be some mention of Jock Stein's Celtic in the late 60's which led to a UEFA championship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sonrreira (talk • contribs) 21:06, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

"Michels was appointed for the 1974 FIFA World Cup campaign by the KNVB. Most of the 1974 team were made up of players from Ajax and Feyenoord. However, Rob Rensenbrink was an outsider, having played for clubs in neighboring Belgium, and was unfamiliar with Total Football, although he was selected and adapted well. During the tournament, the Netherlands coasted through their first and second round matches, defeating Argentina (4-0), East Germany(2-0) and Brazil (2-0) to setup a meeting with hosts West Germany.[3]

The 1974 Finals, which was often touted as Total Football versus Total Discipline. Cruyff kicked off and the ball was passed around the Oranje thirteen times before returning to Cruyff, who then went on a rush that eluded Berti Vogts and ended when he was fouled by Uli Hoeness inside the box. Teammate Johan Neeskens scored from the spot kick to give the Netherlands a 1-0 lead with 80 seconds of play elapsed, and the Germans had not even touched the ball. Cruyff's playmaking influence was stifled in the second half of the match by the effective marking of Berti Vogts, while Franz Beckenbauer, Uli Hoeness and Wolfgang Overath dominated midfield, enabling West Germany to win 2-1.[4]"

This whole passage is surplus to requirements.

Just some thoughts.

Although Holland brought back the concept of total football, the German national team of the 70s could also be said to use the total football concept.

Regarding Total Football in England:

The Everton team of the 1920's were noted to play football of the 'highest scientific order', whilst at that time it probably couldn't be concidered pure Total Football it was a forerunner. In the late 60's Everton's manager Harry Catterick brought skillfull football to the Englsih game, Spurs were another club that were doing the same. At Everton this skillfull football was to develop and by the championship winning side of 1969/70 it could be said that Everton were playing Total Football, the phrase hadn't been coined then.

Whislt the Dutch national side brought Total Football to a worldwide audience, it had bee implemented and developed in other places as well as Ajax and the Dutch National team.

A misunderstanding of Total Football?
The article does not seem to highlight that Total Football is not just an attacking system but a defensive one. In a Total Football system, players constantly close down the ball while those around them shift into different positions in order to limit the space behind them.

For this reason, Arsenal and Barcelona cannot be considered as teams who play Total Football, despite them playing a pass and move game. Both teams sit back when not in possession (Arsenal played a pressing game during the 07-08 season, but at this time didn't play pass and move as they went for or a more direct approach).

On the other hand, the European Cup winning A.C. Milan sides of '89 and '90 (managed by Arrigo Sacchi) played "Total Football".

This article needs to be cleaned of irrelevant information and state more clearly the correct definition of Total Football. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.163.139.127 (talk) 16:28, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

 * By watching Barcelona play you clearly see that they do press at all times when they do not have the ball. It might not be obvious because they hold the ball on an average of 60-65% of the time. La Fuzion (talk) 21:23, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

Origin of the term, Barcelona and drugs
In 'Inverting the Pyramid' Jonathan Wilson makes the following points:

Total football was based around a fluid 4-3-3 formation with the sweeper often pushing up to make a 3-4-3 and players exchanging position. When Michels moved on to Barcelona he carried total football on there. Denying the opposition space was a key part of total football, playing a high line and pressing. He quotes Hulshoff and Muller, the club masseur, describing the use of drugs such as amphetamines to allow them to press for much of the game.

"The term totalvoetbal appeared only in response to performances of the national side in the 1974 world cup."

--David.castell (talk) 08:56, 26 May 2009 (UTC)

POV
Without sources, the list of clubs that utilise "total football" (Barcelona, Arsenal etc) is pure POV King of the  North   East  11:34, 9 January 2010 (UTC)

Also whoever wrote that Athletic Bilbao play tiki-taka doesn't have a clue what they're talking about. Bilbao are a very physical, aggressive team, with a strong defence and counter-attack – they've always been this way, and very seldom been about technicality or passing. They very much stand at the other end of the spectrum to Barcelona in style. Noldorin (talk) 16:48, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

First sentence
Sorry, but is the goalkeeper an outfield player? I don't think so.KD Tries Again (talk) 01:02, 7 June 2010 (UTC)KD Tries Again

Lobanovskiy's Dynamo sides of the early 70s
What about Lobanovskiy's teams of 1970s and 1980s where the same principle of all players defending and all playing attacking were used? In fact, we can, possibly, credit Lobanovskiy with independent introduction of Total Football at Dynamo Kyiv as early as 1973. Goliath74 (talk) 18:44, 2 August 2011 (UTC)

Jack Reynolds
It is not really clear what his contribution to the concept was. I do not understand what 'he witnessed' means here. TF is a fairly broad term that has little to do with strict positional play (Pamour (talk) 12:19, 19 September 2012 (UTC)).

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Many things wrong with this article
I know that there are some people here who - rather aggressively - defend the kind of information on this page. Nonetheless, it seems to me that it's necessary to critically assess this article, because it is fundamentally flawed. The information here is largely unsourced, and if it is based upon a source, then the source is either quite elementary (e.g. one short newspaper article from The Guardian) or the source is not making the statements used in this article at all (e.g. 'Jimmy Hogan laid the foundations or is the architect of Total Football', which is nowhere in the article).

To add to this: is seems to me that there is a general problem with regard to articles on football related matters (perhaps sports in general?), namely that contributions tend to just say something without properly citing sources, but mostly without sources at all. Perhaps this has to do with the fact that sports do not really have a scientific background in the sense that you can base information upon the work of researchers who did peer reviewed research? In any case, I also edited the page on Jimmy Hogan, which is suffering from the aforementioned problems. The same goes for the page on the Golden Team; but at least there we find a call for 'additional citations for verification'. 213.124.169.240 (talk) 13:37, 6 June 2023 (UTC)
 * To repeat: if someone wants to change anything about the origins, please engage in a conversation right here; especially the person who goes behind the name Eem dik doun in toene, who apparently thinks he owns the articles he contributes to. 213.124.169.240 (talk) 14:01, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

 * Sources have been added (also in my latest edit) which point to the fact TF wasn't developed out of the blue in the 1970s, but that the system and its origins were already around much earlier (see e.g., ref 1 and its quote). Not referenced, but there is also a book by Tifo - The Athletic (they really have great podcasts and videos) which state the Dutch "popularised" the system instead of creating it. Not to mention the Russians, who credit Viktor Maslov, one of their own. However, since there are also references which point to the 1970s as its starting point, we have to find a solution.
 * So, I went through the article and made some amends as the article was confusing. There was conflicting information in the article with the second sentence in the lede stating it was created in the 1970s, while some other references in the article stated something else. Also, the first sentence in the body of the article is supported by three refs. None of these refs claim it was "similar" to TF, but rather the system itself.
 * I also tried to make the story about TF's origins in the lede more neutral; I just wanted to take action instead of bickering. Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 18:17, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Let me explain to you a few things. First of all, this is a collaborative project. It seems to me that you are mainly operating on your own. You don't seem to care much for the opinions of others, you just make your edits, regardless of the fact that it's more than clear by now that I fundamentally disagree with your opinions & methods.

 * What irritates me in that light as well, is that you are constantly engaging in own research, with a selective reading of the sources you provide (if you provide them at all). For example, take this sentence in the lede: "According to some authors, Total Football started in the 1930s with the Austrian Wunderteam, followed by the Golden Team of Hungary of the 1950s." You provide two sources. First, one random newspaper article by the New York Times, to which anyone can put 50 articles that state the exact opposite. Second, an article from the book "Who invented the stopover", where the claim, that Total Football was invented by these teams, is nowhere to be found!; on the contrary, quite the opposite, already in the beginning of that chapter the author states that Rinus Michels invented it (though not entirely)! (A common motif of that book is, btw, that a true inventor is always difficult (if not impossible) to determine.) Again: a selective reading and a selective use of sources which doesn't justify your claim at all. To be clear, I have no problem with adding these opinions, but they are opinions against the common conception; you are now turning it completely around.

 * The current version is therefore completely unacceptable, especially since Michels - who is generally regarded as the inventor - is now almost a footnote to the matter. "Other authors credit" you write. No, not 'other authors', the vast majority of authors you mean; the orthodox view. And also, since when are podcasts and newspaper articles more valuable than an actual encyclopedia? I've provided a reliable source with Encyclopedia Britannica, and for some reason it now has the same value as a random newspaper article?

 * Last but not least, why isn't it mentioned in this article that no-one was talking about "total football" as a term or concept, until the 1970s when Rinus Michels coached Ajax & the Dutch national team (the tactics of the Wunderteam & Golden team were never referred to as "total football")? And for a second consideration: if Michels already knew the common principles of "total football" in the 60s, then why didn't he use that tactic for Ajax back then? And for a third consideration: how come all these commentators apparently know precisely how a team from the 1930s played; or are they all centennials? 213.124.169.240 (talk) 19:08, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

 * Skipping the false (and quite ironic) accusations, I don't have to provide all available sources to illustrate a point that there are authors who claim that TF was around earlier than the 1970s, as we have indeed at least two reliable sources which state that, which is enough. We can nitpick about the references, but the book and NY Times are reliable, as is Britannica. It is stated in "Who invented the stepover" that "even Sebes didn't invent Total Football", to immediately refer to Meisl's Austrian Wunderteam as it's originators (they don't literally state e.g., "the Austrian team invented it", which would make boring reading, but it's very clear from this part what they mean). The authors therefore imply that it was already around pre-1970s. This is not selective reading; this is what they say. Just to note: The Athletic is a sports journalism website, not just a podcast/video maker.
 * The concept of TF was more or less already discussed by some pre-1970s (e.g., Willy Meisl in his book in the 1950s or indeed Hogan/Maslov), although it did not have its name back then and was not widely known. It could indeed be clarified in the article.
 * Don't forget that in order to play TF, you need to have great footballers. Professional football in the Netherlands only started in 1956, so obviously it took some time for clubs like Ajax or Feijenoord to have some quality in their teams and be able to play TF. Ajax first reached a European final in 1969, while 1974 was the first time post-WW2 that NED qualified for a WC or EC.
 * Luckily we don't have to rely on very old people who can barely breathe anymore to know about something from 100 years ago, as we can also rely on stuff like radio/newspaper reports, interviews and other detailed writings from back then.
 * So, what are we going to do? Tweaking the para in the lede? E.g., if we want to say that the majority view Michels as its originator, we have to find a reliable source for it that states that. Or should we just remove the whole origin part from the lede? I actually don't mind the latter solution. As Hesse and Simpson indeed correctly observed, it's hard to pinpoint the exact origin of football-related stuff, and readers can read TF's history in the body of the article and draw their own conclusions. Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 21:48, 7 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Those accusations are observations of what I'm seeing; you just start editing, even though you know this is controversial and I asked to talk about this matter for several times now.
 * Apart from that, you are contradicting yourself again. You write: "if we want to say that the majority view Michels as its originator, we have to find a reliable source for it that states that". Fair enough, but at the same time you write: "I don't have to provide all available sources to illustrate a point that there are authors who claim that TF was around earlier than the 1970s". You are asking for general remarks to quote, which is fair enough, but then you're generalizing yourself when it suits your point of view.
 * This invites problems of interpretations. For instance, you write: "but it's very clear from this part what they mean". You mean, it's very clear to you; i.e. the way you interpret that sentence. I, for one, have a completely different interpretation of that chapter, and in part it departs from the paraphrase that you conveniently ignored completely, namely Michels is considered as the inventor of total football (btw, isn't that a comment about who is generally considered as the inventor?).

 * To be clear: I don't have a problem with stating that the Austrians or Hungarians, and the entire list (because it seems to me that pretty much everyone invented total football, in that light, you excluded a significant amount of teams). But saying that it started there, and then falsely implying a continuity between those teams and Michels, is in my opinion own research and absolute nonsense. In my view, it has to be made clear that the notion of total football started with Michels, Ajax and the Dutch national team. And then you can say
 * Also, you have to stop making these kind of comments: "although it did not have its name back then and was not widely known". Seriously, where are you basing it upon that this is the same as what Michels was doing?

 * PS. I also wonder if you've actually seen those games of the Hungarians? For instance the World Cup of 1954. Some of these games can still be watched. I really can't see much that resembles the way the Dutch played in 1974. Where is the high pressing? Where are the outfield players interchanging position? Where is the sweeper keeper? 213.124.169.240 (talk) 13:43, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

 * An excerpt from David Winner's Brilliant Orange: "So who invented Total Football? There are conflicting claims. Some credit Cruyff; others say it was Michels. Others still say it was Michels’s relaxed successor, Stefan Kovacs, the coach who gave control to the players. Hulshoff says the players invented Total Football and then ‘ a lot of other people made theories about it’. Ruud Krol takes the opposite view. ‘Michels invented this system, of course. Not the players. Every year he built it. Every year he was looking for the players he could use in creating that system, looking for a new dimension, a better quality. Every year Michels was looking until he found the perfect team and the perfect style.’ Bobby Haarms says the creation of Total Football was a joint effort. ‘It was an ideal mix of talents and intelligence and world-class players. Everyone was tactically and technically very strong. In training they were always inventing things, trying tricks on each other. Cruyff was a big influence, especially as he grew older and talked more and more about tactics with the other players. But Michels was the general who pulled it together. You could say it was Michels and Cruyff.’ Valibor Vasovichas a different opinion again: ‘Everybody is mistaken who says that Total Football started with Kovacs. Kovacs had nothing to do with it. He took over a very good team, the champions of Europe, and just continued this way of playing. No, Michels was the architect of this football. And I helped him the most."

 * An excerpt from Legacies of Great Men in World Soccer: Heroes, Icons, Legendsbooks by Kausik Bandyopadhyay: The beginnings of ‘Total Football’ - Dutch soccer in the 1970s. In the 1970s, the Dutch shocked the world by introducing the ideal of ‘Total Football’. The concept of total football was developed and pioneered by two fo the most successful professional football teams in the Netherlands - club teams Feyenoord Rotterdam and AFC Ajax of Amsterdam. Yet, it is still unclear exactly who should be given the credit for inventing total football. Winner describes how Ajax had exhibited ‘intelligent attacking football’ since the First World War, traits that were foundational for total football. Others believe that total football was invented by legendary coach Rinus Michels. (…) If Michels is credited as the genius who created the concept of total football, the player who was the exemplar of how the concept should be implemented on the pitch was superstar Johan Cruyff.

 * An excerpt from Total Football - A graphic history of the world's most iconic tactic by Sanjeev Shetty: In the mid-1960s, a man called Rinus Michels took over as manager at Ajax Amsterdam, where he set about instilling a new philosophy of 'total' football that has since had a huge influence on many other ways of playing the game.

 * An excerpt from An illustrated history of football: "Total Football was Rinus Michels' gift to the world; a tactical system that essentially boiled down to a team achieving a higher state of consciousness whereby each player in a team is fit enough and skilled enough to fill the space vacated by a teammate.

 * An excerpt from The Cambridge Companion to Football: "He was absolutely devoted to his mentor Rinus Michels concept of 'total football'; an innovative system where players were not restricted to specific tactical duties."

 * I already gave you the article of Encyclopedia Britannica. My question: does this really have the same status as a random article from the NY Times or The Guardian? 213.124.169.240 (talk) 14:16, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

 * "the majority view Michels as its originator" - I meant that it would be sufficient to add a reliable ref from somewhere that contains a quote like "Michels is by many seen as the creator of TF" (or similar). I don't think it's necessary to add more refs for Michels himself as Britannica is sufficient. It's just for the part about "majority" that needs to be ref'ed (otherwise it's borderline WP:OR).
 * I agree the last para of the lede can be improved. We don't need to list every team mentioned in the body of the article, however, as that would be overkill. How about something like: "Manager Rinus Michels is often credited with introducing this system during the 1970s,[ref needed about often/majority] at Dutch club Ajax and the Netherlands national football team.[Britannica] Can be extended with mentioning Ajax's hattrick of ECs and NED being runners-up in 1974. However, some authors credit teams such as the Austrian Wunderteam of the 1930s or the Golden Team of Hungary of the 1950s for having played a style what later became known as Total Football"[1][2] Both teams were influenced by Jimmy Hogan, who was in turn influenced by the Scottish combination game.[3][4][5] Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 18:03, 8 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The problem is that you present the information as if Total Football was already a formal tactic even with Austrian Wunderteam and the Golden Team, that's in my opinion complete nonsense. It seems like you think Total Football is one concept that has been around since the time of Jimmy Hogan and before. I dispute that, and the majority sources underscore that.
 * The way you operate is completely weird. You seem to think that if you have only one source claiming the opposite, that it is an equal weight to all the sources in many books who are stating the contrary. Because let's face it, what do you have? As far as I can see only one newspaper article from the NY Times. Is that the same as all those books who are claiming the opposite?
 * With regard to your demand. Apart from the fact that Who invented the stepover more or less gives the claim that the general view is that Michels is the inventor, you won't quickly find a source that makes a claim like 'Michels is generally viewed as...', because it is completely obvious; no one else is generally viewed as the creator, because he is the creator of Total Football; no one was talking about Total Football until he coached those teams. 213.124.169.240 (talk) 12:47, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * With regard to your proposal, I don't think it's bad at all, although I would phase the sentence like: "Manager Rinus Michels is generally credited with introducing this system during the 1970s". With regard to the citations, I would avoid newspaper articles, because they are generally unreliable (anything can write everything without much control or fact check). Use therefore books for references. Then: "However, some authors credit teams such as the Austrian Wunderteam of the 1930s or the Golden Team of Hungary of the 1950s for having played a style what later became known as Total Football" is fine with me, but I would say something like that the style of Total Football of Michels had similarities with previous styles. And then you can reference Jimmy Hogan and many more (why only stick to Jimmy Hogan? the majority sources don't talk about him at all, and certainly not with regard to Michels, in that light it's more the England team of 1966). 213.124.169.240 (talk) 12:57, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * I would also make clear that there is not only dispute with regard to its origins, but also with regard to who took credit for the playing style in the 70s. E.g. take the book by Winner, there is - as we know - dispute over who was more important, Kovacs, Cruyff, Michels, the players etc. 213.124.169.240 (talk) 12:59, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * From the book Planet Football by Andrew Godsell: "Over the next few years, Michels led Ajax to a series of domestic honors. He imposed strong discipline within the club, earning the nickname “Iron Rinus”, but encouraged the players to express themselves on the field. Michels stands as one of the most influential managers in the history of football, being generally regarded as the inventor of “Total Football”. (Page 40).213.124.169.240 (talk) 13:21, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Another thing that irritates me about the current article, is the term "development". This is in my opinion completely unjustified, as it first of all implies a finality that is hard, if not impossible, to prove, and secondly it implies that there is a development at all; i.e. that there is a continuity. 213.124.169.240 (talk) 16:25, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Aside from the NY Times and Who Invented the Stepover, one of the sources which can also be added for Austria: "This style of play [Total Football], it could be argued, had its roots in the Austrian national team of 1930. Manager Hugo Meisl had been influenced by Jimmy Hogan, one of the early pioneers of the game on mainland Europe." (Fierce Genius: Cruyff’s Year at Feyenoord, Bollen, 2021, p. 145). For Hungary: "He [Sebes] advocated what he referred to as socialist football, an early version of Total Football." (In the Shadow of Totalitarism: Sport and the Olympic Movement in the "Visegrád Countries" 1945-1989, Waic, 2015, p. 241). I don't mind replacing the NY Times ref with these two books.
 * So, the new paragraph will look like this? - Manager Rinus Michels is generally credited with introducing this system during the 1970s,[Godsell] at Dutch club Ajax and the Netherlands national football team.[Britannica] However, some authors credit teams such as the Austrian Wunderteam of the 1930s or the Golden Team of Hungary of the 1950s for having played a style what later became known as Total Football.[1][Bollen][Waic] Both teams were influenced by Jimmy Hogan, who was in turn influenced by the Scottish combination game.[3][4][5]
 * "Such as" implies the Austrians and Hungarians weren't the only ones. As this is for the lede, it should be a canned summary, so I don't believe we need to mention every other team provided in the body of the article (both Austria and Hungary also seem to be the most frequently mentioned in the refs).
 * With these changes made to the paragraph and the removal of "early developments" from the heading, I guess we're done? Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 21:13, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Almost, because "had its roots", "influenced by" and "early version", is of course not the same as "for having played a style what later became known as Total Football" (which suggest the styles are identical). I think it's important to make clear that this style is not the same, but had similarities. Apart from that I can agree with your proposal. I will make some edits here and there as well, if you don't agree with them, come back here or let me know in another way (what surprises me for instance, is that relatively few teams who played in a similar style are mentioned, whilst Who invented the stopover mentions a whole bunch (including some Argentinian team). Lastly, why aren't the first paragraphs sourced? There are so many books who go into detail with regard to the tactics; for instance, there's nothing in the lead about high pressing (one of the most essential aspects of Total Football!) and the sweeper keeper. I recently read an article by Nico Scheepmaker who already in 1974 emphasized the revolutionary role of the goalkeeper in this system. 213.124.169.240 (talk) 12:11, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay, great. Both books can be replaced by Contested Fields: A Global History of Modern Football (McDougall, 2020) – "And it was Meisl's Wunderteam that developed a revolutionary playing style, the kind of fluid, close passing associated later associated with Hungary's "golden squad" and Dutch "total football"." (p. 113)
 * " … for having played a style what later became known as Total Football" can also be replaced with " … for having played in a similar style to Total Football".
 * If you give the nod, I will change the last paragraph. (The first two paragraphs can indeed be expanded as it looks a bit flat at the moment.) Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 20:58, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Sounds all good! I think we are in agreement then... 213.124.169.240 (talk) 20:06, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Great! I changed the third para and the heading to something more neutral. Eem dik doun in toene (talk) 13:20, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Total Football


text:
User:Jeffrey Rea

A pup attempting to help out this project.

JeffreyRea.net

title: User:Jeffrey Rea


text:
User talk:Tajas1

Welcome to the Wikipedia
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title: User talk:Tajas1


text:
J. C. Heard

James Charles Heard (August 10, 1917 – September 27, 1988) was an American swing, bop, and blues drummer.

Biography
Heard was born in Dayton, Ohio and was raised in Detroit, Michigan. As a young child, he performed as a tap dancer in amateur contests and vaudeville shows. Around the age of 11, Heard began to switch his focus to the drums. He started out teaching himself to play, then took lessons as a student at Cass Technical High School. His parents supported his interest, and brought him to see major performers who toured to Detroit's music venues. He would later describe seeing Chick Webb play in 1937 as a formative experience.

Heard became a protege of the drummer Jo Jones, and through him would meet and sit in with Count Basie. With Jones's help, Heard gained his first professional job with Teddy Wilson's band in 1939. They played the Golden Gate Ballroom in Harlem and the Roseland Ballroom, and recorded for Columbia. After the Wilson band's breakup, he went on to perform in bands led by Benny Carter, Louis Jordan, Louis Armstrong, Benny Goodman, Duke Ellington, Woody Herman, and Dizzy Gillespie. He also performed at major jazz festivals, and played alongside Roy Eldridge and Charlie Parker.

Heard's style was a hybrid of swing and bop. He was known for his innovative techniques and the hard swing he would bring to both large and small bands. He recorded with Charles Mingus, Ray Brown, Billie Holiday, Ray Charles, Nat King Cole, Dinah Washington, Lena Horne, and Sarah Vaughan. He also led his own bands, including a quintet that played at Café Society and a trio with Erroll Garner and Oscar Pettiford. Heard performed as a featured member of Cab Calloway's band from 1942-1945. As a member of the Calloway band, he appeared in several Hollywood films, including Stormy Weather (1943).

Heard toured with Norman Granz's Jazz at the Philharmonic in the 1950s. After a successful engagement in Japan in 1953, he remained in the country for several years to perform and teach. He became a mentor to young musicians like Izumi Yukimura, George Kawaguchi and Franky Sakai. He also met and married his wife Hiroko while living in Japan.

After returning to New York in 1957, Heard played with the Coleman Hawkins-Roy Eldridge Quintet and with Teddy Wilson's trio. In 1966, he moved to Detroit where he was a bandleader and a mentor to younger musicians. In 1983, he again recorded an album as leader, accompanied by saxophonist George Benson, pianist Claude Black, and Dave Young on bass. In 1981, Heard started a 13 piece big band which played around the state and at festivals, often featuring Dizzy Gillespie and other colleagues. This group recorded in 1986 and continued performing regularly until his death.

Heard died of a heart attack at the age of 71 in Royal Oak, Michigan. His legacy is honored with a yearly jazz drumming competition held as part of the Detroit Jazz Festival.

As leader/co-leader

 * 1956: Calypso For Dancing (Philips (Australia))
 * 1958: This is Me, J. C. Heard (Argo)
 * 1964: Live At The Lighthouse 1964 (Fresh Sound) with Bill Perkins
 * 1983: The Detroit Jazz Tradition - Alive & Well (Parkwood)
 * 1986: Some of This, Some of That! - JC Heard Orchestra (Hiroko)
 * 1988: Mr. B. with J.C. Heard - Partners in Time - with George Benson (Blind Pig Records)
 * 1980s: J.C. Heard Featuring Charlie Gabriel and Friends (Gabriel Historical Society)

As sideman
With Toshiko Akiyoshi With Gene Ammons With Shorty Baker and Doc Cheatham With Benny Carter With Doc Cheatham With Arnett Cobb With Roy Eldridge With Bud Freeman With Dizzy Gillespie With Al Grey With Norman Granz With Johnny Hodges With Claude Hopkins With Illinois Jacquet With Ellis Larkins With Howard McGhee With Oscar Peterson With Sammy Price With Ike Quebec With Al Sears With Sir Charles Thompson With Mary Lou Williams With Teddy Wilson With John Wright With Lester Young
 * Toshiko's Piano (Norgaran, 1953)
 * Nice an' Cool (Moodsville, 1961)
 * Jug (Prestige, 1961)
 * Shorty & Doc (Swingville, 1961)
 * Cosmopolite (Norgran, 1952 [1955])
 * Hey Doc! (Black & Blue, 1975)
 * Sizzlin' (Prestige, 1960)
 * Ballads by Cobb (Moodsvile, 1960)
 * Rockin' Chair (Clef, 1951)
 * The Bud Freeman All-Stars featuring Shorty Baker (Swingville, 1960) with Shorty Baker
 * Dizzy Gillespie and Stuff Smith (Verve, 1957)
 * Sittin' In (Verve, 1957)
 * Al Grey Featuring Arnett Cobb (Black & Blue, 1977)
 * Norman Granz' Jam Session, #1 (Clef MGC 601) this and the following album features Benny Carter, Johnny Hodges, Charlie Parker, Ben Webster and others
 * Norman Granz' Jam Session, #2 (Clef MGC 602)
 * In a Tender Mood (Norgran, 1952 [1955])
 * The Blues (Norgran, 1952–54, [1955])
 * Let's Jam (Swingville, 1961) with Buddy Tate and Joe Thomas
 * Illinois Jacquet Quartet (Storyville, 1978)
 * God Bless My Solo (Black & Blue, 1978)
 * A Smooth One (Black & Blue, 1977)
 * Howard McGhee and Milt Jackson (Savoy, 1948 [1955])
 * JATP Lausanne 1953 (TCB 02152, 1953)
 * Lausanne 1953 (TCB 02162, 1953)
 * Fire (Black & Blue, 1975)
 * Rockin' Boogie (Black & Blue, 1975)
 * Ike Quebec 1944-1946 (Classics)
 * Things Ain't What They Used to Be (Swingville, 1961) as part of the Prestige Swing Festival
 * Sir Charles Thompson And The Swing Organ (Columbia, 1959)
 * The Zodiac Suite (Vintage Jazz Classics, 1945)
 * Piano Moods (Columbia, 1950) – majority of tracks
 * Soft Moods (Clef, 1953)
 * Nice 'n' Tasty (Prestige, 1961)
 * Lester Young with the Oscar Peterson Trio (Norgran, 1952)

title: J. C. Heard


text: Category:Belarusian rowers

title: Category:Belarusian rowers