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FC Utrecht

Football Club Utrecht is a Dutch professional football club based in Utrecht. The club competes in the Eredivisie, the top tier of Dutch football, and plays its home matches at the Stadion Galgenwaard.

The club was formed in 1970 as a merger between local clubs VV DOS, USV Elinkwijk and Velox. Since then, the club has won three national cup tournaments: in 1985, 2003 and 2004, also winning the Johan Cruyff Shield in 2004 as the first club outside the traditional Dutch Big Three. Utrecht is also the only club outside the Big Three which has never suffered relegation from the top-flight Eredivisie.

Utrecht have competed in 15 European campaigns, reaching the group stages of the 2004–05 UEFA Cup and the 2010–11 UEFA Europa League, their best European results.

1970–1979: Merger and early years
In the late 1960s, the municipality of Utrecht initiated talks of a merger between the professional departments of VV DOS, Velox and USV Elinkwijk with the aim of continuing to guarantee professional football at top level in the city. DOS was the largest of the three clubs, and had won a national championship in 1958. With stout defensive tactics, the club had narrowly escaped relegation for three successive years, and mismanagement had left the club on the brink of bankruptcy. A cynical comment from that time was: "The club can do nothing, not even relegate."

Merger plans were experienced less positively at Velox and Elinkwijk. Velox had been promoted to the Eerste Divisie in the early 1960s and had been close to achieving promotion to the Eredivisie a few times. In 1968, however, the team relegated to the third-tier Tweede Divisie again. Elinkwijk had been more successful than Velox. A yo-yo club, Elinkwijk alternated seasons in the bottom of the Eredivisie with seasons in the top of the Eerste Divisie. In addition, there was a sentiment in Elinkwijk that it was not originally an Utrecht-based club, but that it belonged more to the town of Zuilen which was an independent municipality until 1954. The club had no preference for the impending merger, but eventually gave in to pressure from the municipality. During the merger talks, Elinkwijk tried to secure a spot in the highest league of amateur football, but was instead placed in the Tweede Klasse. The following season, the club won the championship and as a result promoted to the Eerste Klasse.

On 1 July 1970, the merger became a fact and FC Utrecht was founded. Since VV DOS had managed to avoid relegation from the Eredivisie in the season before, the new club could immediately play at the highest level in its inaugural season. Utrechts's home ground became Stadion Galgenwaard, which had previously been the VV DOS home ground, the largest stadium of the three parent clubs. The first manager of Utrecht became Bert Jacobs, the then 29-year-old head coach of Velox, who was joined by 24-year-old Fritz Korbach from USV Elinkwijk as assistant. Their assignment was to forge one club with one culture from its three cores and three different identities.

In the first season, the Utrecht first-team squad consisted almost entirely of former players from DOS, Velox and USV Elinkwijk. Only one outside player was recruited, as defender Co Adriaanse was signed for ƒ 125,000 from De Volewijckers from Amsterdam. The core of the squad also consisted of former DOS players Cor Hildebrand, Ed van Stijn, Piet van Oudenallen, Tom Nieuwenhuys and John Steen Olsen, former Elinkwijk players Joop Leliveld, Jan Blaauw, Dick Teunissen and Jan Groenendijk and former Velox player Marco Cabo. Their first official match was against defending European Cup winners Feyenoord. Groenendijk scored Utrecht's first goal, but despite the 0–1 lead, the team eventually lost 4–1. The club finished in 9th place in its inaugural season, a solid midtable finish.

1980–1990: Near bankruptcy and revival
In the first ten years of its existence, Utrecht grew steadily. Important players from that period were Hans van Breukelen, Leo van Veen and Willem van Hanegem. In the early 1980s, it was decided to construct a new stadium, which was called Nieuw Galgenwaard.

The tide turned in 1981 when the Dutch Fiscal Information and Investigation Service (FIOD) opened an investigation into the club. They could reveal a series of financial malpractices, including transfer and salary costs of various players being financed illegally. Between 1976 and 1980, the club had not paid national insurance contributions and taxes on signing bonuses. In addition, there had been committed fraud with receipts. The club could not meet the stated additional tax and was placed under a debt moratorium. Bankruptcy, at that point, seemed inevitable. Various campaigns were organised by players and supporters, and through a petition, the club managed to collect 66,000 signatures for the retention of the club. Under the leadership of goalkeeper Hans van Breukelen, first-team players went canvassing with FC Utrecht merchandise and recorded a single entitled "We geven het niet op" ("We don't give up"). The municipality of Utrecht eventually decided to respond to the massive local support and covered expenses.

The early 1980s, under the leadership of head coach and former player Han Berger, were successful. The team finished in fifth place in 1980, third in 1981 and fifth place in 1982 of the Eredivisie and in 1982 the club also reached the KNVB Cup final, which was lost to AZ '67. The team also played European football for the first time in club history. The success was in large part due to the large number of youth players that broke through to the first team during these years. Out of eighteen first-team players reaching the cup final in 1982, fourteen were academy players, including van Breukelen, Gert Kruys, Willy Carbo and Ton de Kruijk. Many of these players, such as Leo van Veen, Frans Adelaar, Willem van Hanegem, Ton du Chatinier and Jan Wouters, would later return to the club as managers.

Although the club went through a golden era results-wise, the club was far from healthy financially. To keep the club afloat, key players were let go every season. Van Breukelen left for Nottingham Forest in 1982, Carbo for Club Brugge in 1983 and Rob de Wit for Ajax in 1983. As a result, Utrecht dropped from a near-top side to more mid-table finishes in the Eredivisie table in the mid-1980s.

On 1 April 1985, Utrechts Nieuwsblad published an article about an imminent takeover of the club. A consortium of, among others, the English newspaper magnate Robert Maxwell, Philips, KLM and Johan Cruyff, were said to have plans to invest heavily in Utrecht and acquire a majority shareholding. The supporters of the club were strongly against the takeover, however, especially due to the interference of Ajax legend, Cruyff. Ultimately, the takeover failed.

1991–2005: Troubled 1990s, success and tragedy
After a number of weaker years, Utrecht reached fourth place in the Eredivisie in 1990–91, led by manager Ab Fafié and with players such as Johan de Kock, Jan Willem van Ede and Rob Alflen and top goalscorer of the season, Włodzimierz Smolarek. After this, however, things went downhill for the club. Because Utrecht missed out on European qualification, incomes were lost. Between 1989 and 1996, six managers led the team and there were just as many changes in the board of directors. Quarrels and financial issues arose, which again meant that key players had to be sold to close the holes in the budget. Alflen left for Ajax in 1991, de Kock left for Roda JC in 1994 and Ferdi Vierklau moved to Vitesse in 1996.

Main sponsor AMEV intervened in the dire financial situation in 1996. The club received a financial injection in exchange for a substantial shareholder position. The insurance company appointed Hans Herremans as club chairman. Many investments were made immediately in 1996, as Errol Refos, Rob Witschge and former Utrecht player John van Loen came over from Feyenoord, Reinier Robbemond from Dordrecht, Dick van Burik from NAC and Michael Mols from Twente. Ronald Spelbos was appointed manager with Jan Wouters as assistant. In 1998, a complete renovation of the Stadion Galgenwaard was initiated, designed by ZJA Zwarts & Jansma Architecten.

Despite the capital injection, successes on the pitch failed to materialise during the first years, and a number of managers were hired and fired in rapid succession. In 1993, the team reached a relatively successful eighth place, but for the next eight years, until 2001, the club was unable climb to a higher position than tenth place in the table. In 1994 and 1996, the club even finished 15th, just above the relegation spots. In 1996, the team won only six matches, including an important 1–2 win at Twente, which meant that the promotion/relegation play-offs were avoided. Only in 2001, Utrecht managed to achieve European qualification again with a fifth-place finish, led by former player Frans Adelaar, who had become manager. Utrecht finished with the same number of points as RKC Waalwijk, Roda JC and Vitesse, but secured fifth place on goal difference. In 2002, the team lost the final of the KNVB Cup to Ajax, but in 2003 and 2004, the team, which had come under the leadership of Foeke Booy, managed to win the cup. Important players in this period included Dirk Kuyt, Tom Van Mol, Jean-Paul de Jong, Pascal Bosschaart and Stijn Vreven. In 2004, the Johan Cruyff Shield was also won at the expense of Ajax (2–4), as Hans Somers claimed a key role with two crucial goals.

As a result of, among other things, a new financial crisis and a lack of lucrative transfers, Utrecht was again on the brink of collapse in the spring of 2003. There was no more money to pay Midreth, the company responsible for constructing the renovation of the stadium. At that time, the stadium was largely finished. Since the material for the construction had already been delivered, the construction company advanced the costs, about € 5.5 million. However, this once again left the club with a substantial debt. Bankruptcy was averted with a remediation and the sale of all properties, including the stadium, to, among others, the municipality of Utrecht and Midreth. In the following years, FC Utrecht returned to the mid-table of the Eredivisie.

On 29 November 2005, French defender and fan favourite, David Di Tommaso died suddenly at the age of 26. Di Tommaso had suffered a cardiac arrest in his sleep. The club subsequently retired Di Tommaso's kit number, 4. At the end of each season, the David Di Tommaso Trophy is awarded to the player who was considered of the most valuable that season by fans; the winner is determined by an internet poll. Before his death, Di Tommaso had been the most recent winner of the FC Utrecht Player of the Year, and the award was named after him since then.

2005–2008: Phanos takeover
After the averted bankruptcy of 2003, Utrecht, despite participating in the UEFA Cup in 2003 and 2004, was no longer able to get out of debt. In July 2007, real estate company Phanos first showed interest in taking over the club. For the symbolic amount of €1, Phanos wanted to take over the club, including all outstanding debts. The company then intended to demolish the existing stadium to make the site available for housing. The company would then build a new stadium near the new Leidsche Rijn district. Phanos also wanted the club to become a serious contender in the Eredivisie by means of financial injections. The plan was met with a lot of resistance from supporters, as the Stadion Galgenwaard had seen a radical renovation recently.

Subsequently, a conflict broke out between chairman Jan Willem van Dop, who had come over as director of Feyenoord in 2005, and the supervisory board. The board accused Van Dop of financial mismanagement, poor communication and egotistical behavior, including the recruitment of manager Willem van Hanegem and striker Kevin Vandenbergh. On 3 September 2007, van Dop was relieved from his duties as chairman, but was put back in office three days later after summary proceedings. As a result, the entire supervisory board decided to step down.

2008–present: Van Seumeren era
On 2 April 2008, the Utrecht board announced in a press conference that the club had found a suitable takeover candidate in entrepreneur Frans van Seumeren, former director of the Mammoet logistics company. Van Seumeren acquired 63% of the shares of Utrecht bv for €16 million. He promised to commit to the club for a period of at least ten years and to reinvest any proceeds in the club. He set the goal that the club had to reconnect with the subtop of the league table within a few years, comparable to a club like Heerenveen. Van Seumeren took place in the new supervisory board, of which Jacques van Ek became chairman. Despite the fact that previous takeover candidate Phanos had failed to comply with the agreement between Utrecht and van Seumeren, they remained affiliated with the club as main shirt sponsor until March 2011.

In his role as new owner of the club, van Seumeren was actively involved in the club's footballing policy. In the summer of 2008, against the wishes of head coach van Hanegem, he meddled with the composition of the technical staff by replacing assistant coaches John van Loen and David Nascimento, strength and conditioning coach Rob Druppers and goalkeeping coach Maarten Arts. At the end of 2008, he fired van Hanegem, after he had repeatedly expressed negative opinion on van Seumeren. Technical director Piet Buter also left afterwards. They were replaced by the duo Ton du Chatinier and Foeke Booy as head coach and technical advisor, respectively.

In 2011, chairman van Dop left Utrecht. In the same year, Wilco van Schaik was appointed as new director of the club. The change of function endorsed the conversion of Utrecht from a football association to a vennootschap (private limited company). Du Chatinier was sacked in the summer of 2011 and replaced by assistant Jan Wouters. Despite having a successful resume in terms of player sales and signings, Booy was also let go in 2012 after disappointing results on the pitch. In the 2012–13 season, Utrecht would go on to have one its best seasons historical seasons, finishing fifth in the league table, winning the play-offs for European football and equaling the club points record from 1981 (63 points). The following season, however, turned out to be a setback; Utrecht was eliminated in the second qualifying round of the UEFA Europa League by Differdange 03 from Luxembourg. Utrecht eventually finished tenth in the league.

When Wouters decided not to renew his contract in 2014, after having been head coach for three years, a new direction was taken in terms of technical policy. Co Adriaanse was appointed as technical advisor, a position that has been vacant since Booy's departure in 2012. Adriaanse obtained an advisory, but not binding, voice in player policy, and was given powers in composing the club's coaching staff. Rob Alflen, assistant under Wouters, would provide the training sessions. The pair were hired with the purpose of making Utrecht play more attacking, attractive football.

Alflen disappointed, only leading Utrecht to eleventh place in the league table, and he was let go after only one season in charge in 2015. Erik ten Hag was appointed as his replacement, coming from a position as Bayern Munich II manager. Club icon Jean-Paul de Jong was appointed as his assistant. Adriaanse also left the club, with Ten Hag taking the extra role as technical manager. The 2015–16 season proved to be highly successful, with Utrecht ending in fifth place of the Eredivisie table and reaching the KNVB Cup final, which was lost 2–1 to Feyenoord. Utrecht would also lose the final of the play-offs for European football to Heracles Almelo. The reserves team of the club, Jong Utrecht, however, became champions of the Beloften Eredivisie in the 2015–16 season. With changes made to the Dutch football league system, Jong Utrecht was therefore promoted to the second-tier Eerste Divisie.

In the 2016–17 season, Utrecht secured a fourth-place finish with two match-days left to play. In the final of the play-offs for European football, they beat AZ Alkmaar was after an exciting diptych (0–3, 3–0, 4–3 after penalty shoot-out). As a result of Utrecht's success, Ten Hag was appointed new head coach of Ajax with assistant De Jong taking over as head coach on 1 January 2018.

Stadium
Utrecht's stadium is the Stadion Galgenwaard, previously named the Galgenwaard, then later the Nieuw Galgenwaard. It has a current capacity of 23,750 spectators. The attendance on average was 19,600 people in 2004–05, while the average attendance rose to 20,004 in 2006–07. The stadium also accommodates several shops, offices and the supporters home of the Utrecht fan club (Supporters Vereniging Utrecht).

National

 * National champions (highest level of Dutch football)
 * Winners: 1957–58 (as VV DOS)
 * Runners-up: 1953–54 (as VV DOS)
 * District champions (highest level of Dutch football before 1956–57)
 * Winners: 1953–54 (as VV DOS), 1955–56 (as USV Elinkwijk)
 * Eerste divisie (second highest level of Dutch football)
 * Runners-up: 1964–65 (as USV Elinkwijk)
 * Tweede Divisie (third highest level of Dutch football)
 * Winners: 1961–62 (as Velox)
 * Runners-up: 1969–70 (as Velox, joint with FC Wageningen but deciding match was never played because of the merger)
 * KNVB Cup
 * Winners: 1984–85, 2002–03, 2003–04
 * Runners-up: 1981–82, 2001–02, 2015–16
 * Other: 2019–20 (final was cancelled due to the COVID-19 pandemic)
 * Johan Cruijff Schaal
 * Winners: 2004
 * Runners-up: 2003

European

 * Intertoto Cup/Summer Cup
 * Joint Winners: 1978

Utrecht in European Competition
Utrecht's first competitive European match, in the team's current iteration (not as DOS), was on 17 September 1980, in the 1980–81 UEFA Cup, playing FC Argeş Piteşti to a 0–0 draw. Since then, the club has participated in fourteen UEFA competitions, advancing as far as the group stage in the 2004–05 UEFA Cup and the 2010–11 UEFA Europa League

 * Accurate as of 1 August 2019

Source: UEFA.com Pld = Matches played; W = Matches won; D = Matches drawn; L = Matches lost; GF = Goals for; GA = Goals against; GD = Goal Difference. Defunct competitions indicated in italics.

Domestic results
Below is a table with Utrecht's results since the introduction of the Eredivisie in 1956.

Records

 * Players in bold text are still active.

National team players
''The following players were called up to represent their national teams in international football and received caps during their tenure with FC Utrecht:

 * Australia
 * 🇦🇺 Tommy Oar (2010–2015)
 * 🇦🇺 Adam Sarota (2010–2016)
 * 🇦🇺 Michael Zullo (2010–2015)
 * Belgium
 * 🇧🇪 Dries Mertens (2009–2011)
 * 🇧🇪 Stefaan Tanghe (2000–2005)
 * Bosnia and Herzegovina
 * 🇧🇦 Dario Đumić (2017–2020)
 * Curaçao
 * 🇨🇼 Dylan Timber (2022–2023)
 * Czech Republic
 * 🇨🇿 Václav Černý (2019–2021)
 * Denmark
 * 🇩🇰 Jørgen Henriksen (1970–1976)
 * 🇩🇰 Michael Silberbauer (2008–2011)
 * 🇩🇰 Morten Skoubo (2008–2011)
 * 🇩🇰 John Steen Olsen (1969–1974)
 * Estonia
 * 🇪🇪 Rocco Robert Shein (2022–2023)
 * Finland
 * 🇫🇮 Paulus Roiha (2002–2003)
 * Gambia
 * 🇬🇲 Leon Guwara (2018–2021)
 * Ghana
 * 🇬🇭 Nana Akwasi Asare (2009–2013)
 * 🇬🇭 Francis Dickoh (2006–2010)

 * Greece
 * 🇬🇷 Anastasios Douvikas (2021–2023)
 * Guadeloupe
 * 🇬🇵 Franck Grandel (2005–2008)
 * 🇬🇵 Loïc Loval (2007–2010)
 * Hungary
 * 🇭🇺 Tibor Dombi (2000–2002)
 * Indonesia
 * 🇮🇩 Ivar Jenner (2023–present)
 * Iraq
 * 🇮🇶 Zidane Iqbal (2023–present)
 * Mali
 * 🇲🇱 Modibo Sagnan (2023–2024)
 * Morocco
 * 🇲🇦 Sofyan Amrabat (2014–2017)
 * 🇲🇦 Adil Ramzi (2006)
 * Netherlands
 * 🇳🇱 Dave van den Bergh (2000–2006)
 * 🇳🇱 Hans van Breukelen (1975–1982)
 * 🇳🇱 Willem van Hanegem (1979–1981)
 * 🇳🇱 Johan de Kock (1987–1994)
 * 🇳🇱 John van Loen (1983–1988; 1996–1998)
 * 🇳🇱 Michael Mols (1996–1999; 2004–2005)
 * 🇳🇱 Kevin Strootman (2011)
 * 🇳🇱 Jens Toornstra (2013–2014; 2022–present)

 * Netherlands (continued)
 * 🇳🇱 Michel Vorm (2005–2011)
 * 🇳🇱 Ricky van Wolfswinkel (2009–2011)
 * 🇳🇱 Jan Wouters (1980–1986)
 * Nigeria
 * 🇳🇬 Azubuike Oliseh (1999–2001; 2001–2002)
 * Norway
 * 🇳🇴 Erik Mykland (1995)
 * Paraguay
 * 🇵🇾 Gatito Fernández (2011–2012)
 * Poland
 * 🇵🇱 Włodzimierz Smolarek (1990–1996)
 * Romania
 * 🇷🇴 Mihai Neșu (2008–2012)
 * Scotland
 * 🏴 Scott Booth (1998)
 * United States
 * 🇺🇸 Juan Agudelo (2014)
 * 🇺🇸 Taylor Booth (2022–present)
 * 🇺🇸 Rubio Rubin (2014–2017)
 * Zambia
 * 🇿🇲 Jacob Mulenga (2009–2014)

 * Players in bold actively play for FC Utrecht and for their respective national teams. Years in brackets indicate careerspan with Utrecht.

National team players by Confederation
Member associations are listed in order of most to least amount of current and former FC Utrecht players represented Internationally

Players in international tournaments
The following is a list of FC Utrecht players who have competed in international tournaments, including the FIFA World Cup, UEFA European Championship, Africa Cup of Nations, AFC Asian Cup, CONCACAF Gold Cup, and the Caribbean Cup. To this date no FC Utrecht players have participated in the Copa América, or the OFC Nations Cup while playing for FC Utrecht.

List of FC Utrecht coaches

 * 🇳🇱 Bert Jacobs (1 July 1970 – 30 June 1974)
 * 🇳🇱 Jan Rab (1974–76)
 * 🇳🇱 Han Berger (1 Jan 1976 – 30 June 1983)
 * 🏴 Barry Hughes (1983–84)
 * 🇳🇱 Nol de Ruiter (1 July 1984 – 30 June 1987)
 * 🇳🇱 Han Berger (1 July 1987 – 30 June 1989)
 * 🇳🇱 Cees Loffeld (1989–90)
 * 🇳🇱 Ab Fafié (17 Oct 1990 – 17 Feb 1993)
 * 🇳🇱 Henk Vonk (caretaker) (17 Feb 1993 – Sept 16, 1993)
 * 🇳🇱 Leo van Veen (Sept 17, 1993–30 June 1995)
 * 🇳🇱 Ton du Chatinier and 🇳🇱 Henk Vonk (1995)
 * 🇳🇱 Simon Kistemaker (1 July 1995 – 30 Nov 1995)
 * 🇳🇱 Nol de Ruiter (caretaker) (30 Nov 1995 – 23 Jan 1996)
 * 🇳🇱 Ronald Spelbos (18 Jan 1996 – 27 Nov 1997)
 * 🇳🇱 Jan Wouters (1997)
 * 🇳🇱 Mark Wotte (31 Dec 1997 – 28 March 2000)
 * 🇳🇱 Frans Adelaar (29 March 2000 – 30 June 2002)
 * 🇳🇱 Foeke Booy (1 July 2002 – 30 June 2007)
 * 🇳🇱 Willem van Hanegem (1 July 2007 – 23 Dec 2008)
 * 🇳🇱 Ton du Chatinier (24 Dec 2008 – 19 May 2011)
 * 🇳🇱 Erwin Koeman (1 July 2011 – 18 Oct 2011)
 * 🇳🇱 Jan Wouters (18 Oct 2011 – 30 June 2014)
 * 🇳🇱 Rob Alflen (1 July 2014 – 30 June 2015)
 * 🇳🇱 Erik ten Hag (1 July 2015 – 27 Dec 2017)
 * 🇳🇱 Jean-Paul de Jong (28 Dec 2017 – 4 Sep 2018)
 * 🇳🇱 Dick Advocaat (17 Sep 2018 – 30 June 2019)
 * 🇳🇱 John van den Brom (1 July 2019 – 6 November 2020)
 * 🇳🇱 René Hake (6 November 2020 – 22 March 2022)
 * 🇳🇱 Rick Kruys (caretaker) (22 March 2022 – 30 June 2022)
 * 🇳🇱 Henk Fraser (1 July 2022 – 14 December 2022)
 * 🇩🇰 Michael Silberbauer (28 December 2022 – 29 August 2023)
 * 🇳🇱 Rob Penders (caretaker) (29 August 2023 – 11 September 2023)
 * 🇳🇱 Ron Jans (11 September 2023 – present)

title: FC Utrecht


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Four Bitchin' Babes

The Four Bitchin' Babes is a group of female singer-songwriters with rotating membership performing mainly humorous, satirical, or light-hearted songs in the folk genre. The current touring group consists of Sally Fingerett, Deirdre Flint, Christine Lavin, and Debi Smith. The artists have made numerous albums and have worked with producer Jeff Bova.

History
Christine Lavin founded the band in 1990. She produced the compilation album On a Winter's Night, then put together a road show of the artists who appeared on it: Patty Larkin, Megon McDonough, Sally Fingerett, and Lavin. The foursome toured throughout the United States, after which Lavin decided to create a live album of their performance at The Birchmere entitled Buy Me, Bring Me, Take Me, Don't Mess My Hair, released on Rounder Records in 1990.

Larkin then signed with Windham Hill Records and left the band; she was replaced by Julie Gold, best known for writing the song "From a Distance". The group continued to tour and released their second album, Buy Me… Volume II in 1993. In the meantime, other artists would substitute in concert for band members who were unavailable, such as Cheryl Wheeler, Janis Ian, and Mary Travers. In 1994, Debi Smith replaced Julie Gold, and they released their third album Fax It, Charge It, Don't Ask Me What's For Dinner in 1995 on Shanachie Records.

In 1997, Lavin chose Camille West to replace her in the band, and the new lineup released the live album Gabby Road: Out Of The Mouths Of Babes, also recorded at the Birchmere. In 2001, the band released the album The Babes: Beyond Bitchin', produced by Jeff Bova, in addition to a live concert DVD. McDonough left the band in 2001 to perform a one-woman show, and she was replaced by Suzzy Roche, formerly of The Roches. In 2002, they released the album Some Assembly Required. In 2004, both West and Roche left the group and were replaced by Nancy Moran and Deirdre Flint. In 2006, they toured for their CD "Hormonal Imbalance: A Mood Swinging Musical Revue".

As of June 2022, the Four Bitch' Babes are touring, including a stop at The Birchmere, where they recorded their first album and see as an "unofficial home base". It may be their last formal tour and Smith, one of the co-leaders, says "We are winding it down".

There have been eleven different members (not counting guest or touring "Babes"), with the Four Bitchin' Babes currently consisting of Sally Fingerett, Deirdre Flint, Christine Lavin, and Debi Smith. Only Fingerett has been a member for their entire history.

Songwriting
Typically, the Babes' albums consist of songs written by the individual members, all of whom have or have had solo careers as well. Songs appearing on their albums, such as "Microwave Life" (by McDonough), "B.O.B. (Battery-Operated Boyfriend)" and "L.A.F.F. (Ladies Against Fanny Floss)" (by West), and "Don't Mess With Me (I'm Somebody's Mother)" (by Fingerett), satirize modern life, especially from a mature female perspective.

Deirdre Flint
Deirdre Flint is an American satirical folk-rock singer-songwriter. A former elementary school teacher, she joined Four Bitchin' Babes in 2005.

Her music has appeared on the Dr. Demento radio show and on the television show Nip/Tuck, as well as on The Learning Channel's "A Dating Story" and documentary "Always A Bridesmaid". Her songs, such as "Cheerleader," "The Boob Fairy," and "Past Life Regressed," deal with offbeat topics, often from the perspective of a ditzy female character. She has performed in more than 50 venues across the United States, including The Kennedy Center, and has been reviewed in publications such as The Christian Science Monitor, The Washington Post, and Billboard Magazine, which called her "Shuffleboard Queens" album, "grown-up satire with a non-cynical wink".

Awards and honors
Flint won the New Folk songwriting prize at the Kerrville Folk Festival in 2000, and was Falcon Ridge Folk Festival Showcase Artist that same year.

Deirdre Flint discography

 * The Christmas Sweater Song (2012)
 * The Shuffleboard Queens (1999)
 * Then Again (2002)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Four Bitchin' Babes


text:
Talk:Patricia Heaton

Discussions
I've removed the POV on this page. Opinions are not good fodder for articles. Mike H 23:25, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)

Biography standards
Can you please honor the standards for birth/death information found here and here? It's the standard. I'm sorry if you don't like it. If you don't, take it up at the appropriate page, but the standard is the standard for a reason, and has been for a very long time. R ADICAL B ENDER ★  21:04, Dec 4, 2004 (UTC)

 * Does the "standard" include repeating info within the same article? Why is it necessary to state "best known for Everybody Loves Raymond" in the first sentence, when that is discussed at length later in the entry?
 * Because Guide_to_writing_better_articles. Niteowlneils 19:22, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia is clearly comprised of two camps - those who spend a considerable amount of time doing research to create an item with a unique voice and sense of style, and those who think everything must conform to one boring format and edit instead of write. The very fact that the public is invited to this site to express themselves suggests it's not meant to look or sound like a standard encyclopedia. Lighten up and let people enjoy themselves as long as they're keeping to the spirit of things, if not the "standards" you obsessively embrace! TOM 12:51, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)

 * I don't know where you're getting "boring" from. My God, I'm talking about changing an intro so that a user who reads the article can immediately understand why this person is important and get some standard information.  I'm not talking about changing up the content in a major way at all - just getting it into a standard form that everyone reading can quickly grasp.  I'm not stomping on your "creative genius" or whatever and even if I was, that's the nature of Wikipedia.  Geez, we're talking about common sense things here - you make it sound like I'm spitting on some great work of art.

 * Look, let's look at your opening paragraph:

 * Patricia Heaton is an American actress.

 * So what? So's my sister: she was in a play in the sixth grade.  According to your description, Patricia Heaton is on the same level as my sister.  The very beginning of this article doesn't tell me why this person is important, let alone why I should keep reading.  Now, I know why she's important and so do you, but Joe Q. Wikipedia-Reader might not.  And if the reader don't know anything about Everybody Loves Raymond or American television, the article doesn't give them that initial hint that she stars in a popular American television show that's been running for eight years.  The point is, this is an encyclopedia article - the first thing that should be said is why this person deserves to be in an encyclopedia article.

 * As far as your "two camps" crack goes - without us standards nerds, this site would be an incomprehensible, inconsistent, "non-useful" mess...like Everything2. As far as "lightening up", I'm pretty sure that it's you who needs to lighten up.  We're talking about minor changes that every article should have so that people can get certain information and understand the article quickly and easily.

 * Like the message below this editing box says, "If you do not want your writing to be edited mercilessly and redistributed at will, do not submit it." R ADICAL B ENDER ★  16:25, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)

I don't know why there is a debate here. We have standards so that the encyclopedia is consistent. I'm sorry if you find that "boring", but that's just the way it is. This is a collaborative project, and these are the standards that have been decided on by hundreds (thousands?) of collaborators long before you and I showed up. There is no reason to dismiss them out of a misguided sense of individuality. There is no personal expression in where you place an actress's birthdate. Yes, we value people expressing themselves, but just as important to the "spirit of things" is consensus. These standards have been decided by consensus and by defying them you are violating consensus and the spirit of things here on wikipedia. Perhaps if you could explain why there is a compelling reason not to have this actress's birthdate in the standard format or not to tell readers why she is important in the introduction, we could understand why you want to violate this consensus. Gamaliel 19:21, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

TOM, you said above about the public being encouraged to edit at Wikipedia. Yes that's totally true and the best way. The beautiful thing is that those people do not have to conform to the standards - their additions will be copyeditted by other people into the correct format. violet/riga (t) 18:45, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Series vs. Pilots
violet/riga persists in stating that Heaton starred in three pilots that failed to become series, despite my advising her otherwise on her talk page. As proof, I offer the following:

 *
 *
 *

What more does a person need to accept the fact he's wrong??? 64.12.116.68 22:58, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Please don't be quick to insult. I am not persisting in stating blah... I know nothing about this person but am simply trying to fix an edit war here. Please stop reverting to a version which is not acceptable – I suggest you read the talk and history of the article before making such changes.  Fix the change rather than revert. violet/riga (t) 23:03, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Please be aware of the 3RR – continued reversion will result in you being blocked. Please discuss things here first. violet/riga (t) 23:09, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * violet/riga also persists in misdefining the purpose of Feminists for Life by limiting its focus to abortion, which is NOT the case. (S)he admits (s)he knows nothing about Heaton yet keeps interfering with her bio, then claims (s)he's only "trying to fix an edit war." There wouldn't be an "edit war" if (s)he stopped playing with the facts!!!! And don't accuse ME of "reverting" - I'm simply correcting the false data YOU insist on adding!  64.12.116.68 23:12, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * If you looked at the history you would note that the edit war is with another user (ie. not you) that has withdrawn their writing. We are not allowed to use that version any more (well, that is their claim) and have to rewrite it.  I have attempted to do so.  Please edit this current version and expand it rather than revert it to the disallowed version.  Do you understand what I'm trying to say?  Stop with the insults; I'm not trying to revert your  edits nor am I trying to limit the scope of anything. violet/riga (t) 23:15, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

violet/riga's control issues
Apparently Violetriga doesn't understand that Wikipedia encourages contributors to enhance articles, since he or she keeps reverting the Heaton entry to her poorly-written version. Furthermore, he or she insists on misdescribing the purpose of Feminists for Life by trying to make it sound like their sole concern is abortion. It's one thing to think your writing is so wonderful it shouldn't be altered by others, quite another to intentionally distort the facts. Why hasn't she been banned for frequent vandalism of this article???? 152.163.100.68 12:38, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Why do I get the feeling I'm banging my head against the wall with some people here? Read the history comments and the writing above.  I'm going to have to RFC this soon and that's just plain ridiclous. violet/riga (t) 12:41, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Perhaps you should bang your head against the wall until you knock some sense into it! WHO do you think you are, the be-all and end-all of Wikipedia?  Never mind that you're a dull writer - why is it you consider removal of data and a misrepresentation of the facts to be an "enhancement"? Heaton's father is a renowned sportswriter, yet you keep deleting that fact.  Heaton has received honors other than the Emmy for Raymond, yet you keep deleting that fact. The agenda of Feminists for Life involves much more than abortion issues, yet you keep deleting that fact.  WHAT'S WITH YOU? 152.163.100.68 12:51, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I refuse to discuss this any more with somebody who clearly has no interest in looking at the facts. Revert it once more and I will block you for 24 hours, simple as that. violet/riga (t) 17:55, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Changed my mind - such silliness is not worth my time. Placed on RFC. violet/riga (t) 19:21, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Clearly violet/riga is on a demented power trip. How else do you explain her insistence on removing pertinent data and distorting facts in this entry an endless number of times???  When she is confronted with her ridiculous antics, she responds by stating, " I refuse to discuss this any more with somebody who clearly has no interest in looking at the facts," yet SHE is the one who refuses to listen to reason.  As already stated above, Heaton's father is a renowned sportswriter, she has received honors other than the Emmy for Raymond, and the agenda of Feminists for Life involves much more than abortion issues - yet Violetriga keeps removing all this data without explaining why! She removes the description of Stage Three, and all of Heaton's made-for-TV film credits - this is her idea of an "enhancement"? Her obsession with destroying a well-written entry with her ridiculous changes is disturbing and needs to be addressed by an administrator ASAP. 152.163.100.68 22:29, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I am an admin, and you clearly have no idea how to conduct yourself in a sensible manner. violet/riga (t) 23:12, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * If you are an administrator, how do you justify removing pertinent data and distorting facts as an "enhancement"? It is I who have been sensible throughout this "war" you started, clearing stating my case for maintaining the entry as is, whereas you have continued to revert it to your badly-written ("she got the part" - truly a literary masterpiece!) skeleton of an article for no reason other than the fact you seem to be obsessed with keeping it the way you want it written.  Who at Wikipedia decided you're administrator material? I'd be interested in knowing what the standards are if someone like yourself can attain this status! 152.163.100.68 12:29, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I really can't understand the way some people think. Stop being so stupid and paranoid that people are out to destroy the work you've been doing. I've explained myself time and again about this article but will once more. Hopefully this time you'll listen and stop playing around with the article. Right...

This article was the subject or a stupid argument about the layout of some images. After that somebody that had written quite a bit for this article started a revert war, claiming that their contributions are no longer allowed on Wikipedia. I argued and kept reverting to the fuller version. In an attempt at compromise I rewrote much of the article, adding some content but not as much as that other version. That person has since disappeared and is no longer reverting the work. You've now come along and undid what I did to his version. Since that version was the cause of so much grief I want to stay clear of it and use the new version that I wrote. Feel free to add to the version I have done and include everything in the other version (I want that included!) but don't revert it to the one that could cause problems should that original guy come back and revert again.

Now, I've explained. I'm going to put it back to my version again. I've warned you not to revert and will block you if you revert what I have written. And I'll stick to it this time. violet/riga (t) 17:01, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Your explanation is ludicrous. In no way have you justified deleting pertinent data or misdescribing the goals of Feminists for Life.  Furthermore, you state, "Feel free to add to the version I have done and include everything in the other version" - WHICH IS EXACTLY WHAT I'VE BEEN DOING, only to have you revert it to YOUR version!!!!  Why invite someone to do something and then revert it after he's done it?????  64.12.116.68 17:44, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * That's not what you're doing at all, you're just reverting it. You've not listened to a word I've said.  Page protected until you can discuss this without dismissing everything. violet/riga (t) 21:54, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Can't we all just get along?
I've been asked to intervene in this edit war and that's just what I'm going to do. First off, the insults end now. I don't care who started it, I'm putting everyone reading this on notice that the next person who posts anything remotely like an insult directed towards another editor on this page will get a 24 hour block, and then the prizes double each time after that. Please assume good faith and do not presume that other editors have hidden grudges, agendas, or issues. We should all have the same goal in mind, which is obviously to improve this article.

Towards that end, when this article gets unprotected, perhaps we can all agree not to make any more reverts? Let's keep the changes small and specific if we can. 64/152 (I am assuming you are the same person. Is that correct?), if there is specific information you feel violet/riga is leaving out, restore that information only and do not revert the entire article. Violet/riga, I'm aware about the problems we had with sftvlguy2, but the GNU licence is pretty clear and using his edits are fair game. I know you want to head off any problems with his complaints and vandalism, but is it really such a problem if some of his work is restored? Gamaliel 09:10, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I, along with other admins, were in an edit war with the first anon trying to claim that such work could not be removed. The best compromise I could see was to rewrite the information.  I did so, though left some out which I either thought was not appropriate or could not reword sufficiently to appease that anon.  Then this new anon came along, stating "Removal of incorrect data by Violetriga".  I attempted to fix it after being told what was wrong but from then the user has been stubborn and not bothered to expand on the version that I worked on.

 * For the record at no point have I insulted this anon. Thanks for coming along Gameliel, lets hope this edit war can end now.  violet/riga (t) 10:50, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * For the record, Violetriga, Gamaliel came along at MY request, since dealing with you had developed into an impossible situation. You claim I'm stubborn but I believe it is you who is stubborn in refusing to accept the fact that I have done EXACTLY what you have requested - expanded on your version, only to have you remove all the enhancements. You didn't "rewrite the information," as you claim, you deleted pertinent facts and misdescribed the focus of Feminists for Life, as I have told you repeatedly. "Rewriting," as I see it, means using different language but keeping the data as is. And I can't help but notice that Gamaliel did not support your claim that you're an administrator.  I would appreciate clarification of that from someone other than yourself. 152.163.100.69 13:54, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I really have no interest discussing any of the above with you. Please discuss the way in which this stalemate can be resolved rather than repeatedly go on with stupid accusations and incorrect statements.  violet/riga (t) 13:59, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * 64/152, Violetriga is an administrator here. Violetriga does not need my "support" to claim status as an administrator, it simply is a fact.  Your harping on this point is counterproductive and frankly a little bizarre. Let's focus on what we can do to settle this dispute, not oneupsmanship.    Leaving aside the issue of Feminists for Life temporarily, what specific problems do you have with Violetriga's version.  Not general issues of stubborness or reverting, but what specific information is being left out?  Let's come to some agreement on individual points instead of harping on how stubborn other people are. Gamaliel 16:46, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Pardon me for tossing in my two cents here, but if someone would take the time to read all the issues 64/152 has raised, you can see he's never been "general" at all.  In fact, he has been VERY specific about what information has been removed by Violetriga, namely 1) identification of Heaton's father as a renowned sportswriter; 2) explanation of what "Stage Three" is; 3) all of Heaton's made-for-TV movie credits; and - as Gamaliel mentioned - 4) a complete explanation of Feminists for Life's goals. He has stated his case clearly and succinctly several times, yet Violetriga's only response is "I really have no interest discussing any of the above with you" or variations thereof.  As a newcomer to Wikipedia, I'm interested in knowing why she has been permitted to control this page the way she has.  I don't believe being an administrator means one is permitted to abuse the privilege as much as she has - which is clear to anyone who reads the ongoing discussion between her and 64/152 above. As often as he states his case - and a good one, at that - she refuses to acknowledge the points he has made. How does she justify accusing him of making "stupid accusations and incorrect statements"? The way I'm reading this, he's never done any such thing. Exactly how does one qualify to be an administrator with an attitude like hers?  I'm not looking to add fuel to this fire, I'm just wondering - - - The FinalWord 20:32, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * That's great, but why does it have to reverted instead of being added again? It should be more than obvious that I have no problem with the information being added just the way it is being done.  As for other comments made by The FinalWord again I have no interest in responding to such pointless and biased nonsense. violet/riga (t) 20:45, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I added a new section titled "A solution?" in which I proposed my version of this article. That has been removed, not just from this discussion page, but from the history, as well.  If an administrator has that capability, then Violetriga is truly guilty of vandalism!  ONCE AGAIN, here is my suggestion - The FinalWord 21:01, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * That really did make me laugh - your paranoia is getting the better of you! The solution is a start, though I can't help but think that changing the occasional word from the disputed version (not my rewrite) is only the vaguest of attempts at a compromise. violet/riga (t) 21:08, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * MY paranoia? If you didn't fiddle with my last entry - the proposed new version of the article under the heading "A solution?" - why is my name and the date and time stamp missing from the end of it?????? SOMEBODY had to remove it - if not you, who?  You reverted the deleted section after I raised the issue of its removal, but neglected to include that info. As far as a "compromise", be honest - obviously your idea of a compromise is using YOUR version, period. The FinalWord 21:24, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * You didn't submit the suggestion to begin with, hence it missing from the history. That was most likely because of an edit conflict.  I then went and sectioned and organised things properly for you, trying to help as ever.  If you don't believe me then either provide proof (ask any admin you can find) or stop spouting your mistaken views.  I want this article to be in the best possible state for all parties.  The whole reason for me removing much of the content is because of somebody else's view and not mine (check the history and you'll see how I was originally fighting for the version you hold so dear).  Just sort it out - the time you've spent moaning and accusing here could be much better served working on this (and indeed other) articles.  My time could be better spent also, so do please continue your intentions of reaching a compromise. violet/riga (t) 21:33, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

As someone fairly new to Wikipedia, I would appreciate your explaining how, if I didn't submit the suggestion to begin with, you were able to find it and revert it to the discussion page where I put it in the first place. What do you mean by an "edit conflict"? I made the entry, saved the page, saw it there with my signature and date and time stamp, only to find it missing shortly after. Now it's back EXACTLY as I wrote it. How did it disappear and reappear? What is it you "sectioned" and "organized" "properly" for me? I'm not being facetious, I'm trying to get a grasp of how Wikipedia works. As far as a compromise, I see no reason why the version I proposed can't be used. It has far more info than yours, and the data is in a sensible order (why would you put her husband and kids, for example, in the first paragraph? Is that what anyone immediately wants to know when they're looking up Patricia Heaton?) The FinalWord 21:52, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * If two people are editing a page at the same time then information may not get submitted - that is an edit conflict - though it warns you of such an occurance. At no point have I removed anything you've said.  I came to the article and saw your suggestion; in order to respond to the comments you made I placed the suggestion under a new section header and replied to what you said.

 * I placed the personal details at the top because, to me, it is quite logical to place all person details such as date and place of birth/death, their reason for being included in Wikipedia and any relevant relationship in the lead section of the article. Obviously that is debatable and having it placed at the bottom is fine.

 * Yes, your version has more information. No, I don't believe it to be "better written", but then neither do I think that of my version.  I merely wanted to stop edit wars happening with the original anonymous user.  Quite amusing that those intentions instigated a second edit war.  Indeed, had the suggestion shown below been submitted at the time (instead of my attempt at a compromise being reverted) then I would've welcomed it.  As it stands I feel work could still be done on the version below to make it more acceptable to both of us.  Make further changes or allow me to make them and perhaps a solution can be found.  violet/riga (t) 22:13, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * There is nothing further I know about Heaton that I can add. Quite frankly, as a professional writer, I can't see any way to improve this (no self-praise intended). To mention "Raymond" in the first paragraph and then again at length later in the entry seems redundant to me. I basically put the facts in chronological order. Exactly what changes did you have in mind? The FinalWord 22:35, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

You know, I'm justing looking more carefully at the edit history here and find it somewhat amusing. The person that removed their "copywrighted material and photos" after an edit war with me and a few others is the same one that came back to fight to include it again. I really am interested in knowing how many people are involved here. Basically it's all ridiculous and while trying to help out I've just been attacked despite my good intentions. I don't care what happens here now as I have no idea who I'm arguing with and what their opinions are. I withdraw any objection to any part of this argument because it's getting too difficult to keep track of the anons/users opinions and I have no interest in fighting other peoples battles. Use whatever version you want. Serves me right for trying to help. violet/riga (t) 22:52, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The FinalWord, your behavior on this page is highly inappropriate. This talk page is a forum for discussing improvements to the article, not for paranoid accusations and questioning someone's fitness to be an administrator. Further inappropriate comments along these lines will be deleted, and then at that point you can question my fitness as an administrator too, but you can do it somewhere else.

I noticed you immediately rushed in to revert as soon as the page was unprotected. I've made some minor changes to the article along with explainations of each one. If you are interested in discussion and compromise then we can discuss changes and problems here, but if you want a revert war, then we can have that too. Gamaliel 01:18, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * First of all, I did not "rush in" to make changes (NOT "revert") to the article - my watchlist advised me that there was an addition to the talk page, and there I found Violetriga's invitation to use any version, so I made the change. Second of all, my behavior was most definitely not "inappropriate" - as a newcomer, I'm entitled to question how administrators are selected and how much control they are allowed to wield in a situation such as this.  To criticize my efforts to understand Wikipedian procedures is what I would consider "inappropriate."  As far as your changes are concerned, they include grammatical errors which I am correcting.  And once again, and for the last time, I can't help but wonder how anyone can read the discussions on this page, where two - or perhaps three - individuals made clear and concise points, only to be continually told their opinions didn't matter, and not think the administrator involved wasn't acting in Wikipedia's best interests. The FinalWord 02:53, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Accusing another editor of deleting your comments with zero evidence is not an effort to understand Wikipedia procedures, nor is it in any sense appropriate behavior, newcomer or not. You are not entitled to use this talk page as a soapbox - you've already complained, and if you still feel more needs to be done, you can follow the proper procedures at Dispute_resolution, but you won't be allowed to continue to make attacks and lodge a continuing series of complaints here. Your opinions do matter, but you simply are not allowed to do whatever you want, however justified you feel you are. Gamaliel 03:27, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I see - I'm not allowed to do what I want, but Violetriga is permitted to act in the questionable manner she did without reprisal. I know what I saw - my comments were there, then they vanished, then they were returned WITHOUT THE DATE AND TIME STAMP . . . HOW do you explain THAT??? Violetriga's explanation made no sense, because if my edits didn't go through due to an "edit conflict," there's no way she could have found them and reverted them as she admitted she did. Furthermore, I attempted to discuss this matter privately on YOUR talk page, Gamaliel, where you responded to me quite nicely, then you came here and attacked me in a totally nasty manner. What's with the two faces? Obviously, you administrators stick together, no matter what. And by the way, re: your "descriptive caption to provide context" - it CLEARLY says "Dr. Phil" on the photograph, so repeating the info seems quite unnecessary - but of course, the administrators aren't permitted to be questioned by the humble peons who are responsible for the bulk of Wikipedia, are they? The FinalWord 04:49, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I have no interest in any sort of administrative solidarity. In fact, I disagree with Violetriga on several major points about this article, and if you were not so busy playing the victim and willing to discuss this article calmly, you would have found that out. If you feel that I was nasty to you, I apologize, but I feel that you have been quite nasty to Violetriga, with little cause. How exactly have you, as a humble peon, been harmed? You have not been blocked, banned, or silenced. How have you been oppressed by the cabal? I can't explain what happened to that edit of yours, but I have some familiarilty with administrative powers, and I certainly would not be able to do what you attribute to Violetriga. I am not a tech geek, perhaps we could find one to explain what actually did happen. Regardless, you have made your accusation and there is no reason to complain about that further unless you have something new to add. If you still feel that an injustice has been done to you, please follow the proper procedures at Dispute resolution. I would like to get along with you but you really need to dial it back and stop personalizing this dispute. Gamaliel 06:31, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The final word on The FinalWord
It seems to me that The FinalWord, 152.163.100.68, 152.163.100.69 and 64.12.116.68 are the same person - trying to hide behind IP addresses (and, I believe, different usernames) and state that you've "come along late to the discussion" is just pathetic. Using your newbieness as a shield, while appropriate to some extent, is just trying to get pity. I hope you will avoid such actions and accusations in the future - you obviously want to contribute to Wikipedia, which is a good thing, but there is no reason for the attitude and personal attacks you've done here. If you'd been more truthful and friendlier this would've been dealt with long ago. Any further responses from you should kindly appear on my talk page rather than here. violet/riga (t) 11:17, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Maybe I'm Johnny Come Lately, but I would remind people to Assume Good Faith and  Please do not bite the newcomers.TheCommodore7 (talk) 17:58, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

A solution?
Patricia Heaton (born March 4, 1958) is an American actress.

She was born in Bay Village, a suburb of Cleveland, Ohio, and is the daughter of well-known Cleveland Plain Dealer sportswriter Chuck Heaton. She moved to New York City to study with drama teacher William Esper after graduating from Ohio State University.

She made her Broadway debut in the musical Don't Get God Started, after which she and fellow students created Stage Three, an off-Broadway acting troupe. When they brought one of their productions to Los Angeles, Heaton caught the eye of a casting director for the ABC drama thirtysomething, leading to three appearances on the series. She was featured in three unsuccessful sitcoms - Room for Two (1992) with Linda Lavin, Someone Like Me (1994), and Women of the House (1995) with Delta Burke - before landing the plum role of beleagured wife, mother, and in-law Debra Barone in the hit CBS comedy series Everybody Loves Raymond (1996 - 2004) with Ray Romano. Since 1999, she has been nominated every year for an Outstanding Lead Actress in a Comedy Series Emmy, winning the award twice. She has also collected two Viewers for Quality Television awards and a Screen Actors Guild trophy for her work on the series.

Heaton's made-for-television movies include Shattered Dreams, Miracle in the Woods, A Town Without Christmas, and the remake of Neil Simon's The Goodbye Girl with Jeff Daniels for TNT. Her feature films include Memoirs of an Invisible Man, Beethoven, and Space Jam.

Heaton is the honorary chairperson of Feminists for Life. This nonsectarian, nonpartisan organization opposes all forms of cruelty, including domestic violence, child abuse, infanticide, and abortion.

Her memoir, Motherhood and Hollywood - How to Get a Job Like Mine, was published by Villard Books in 2002.

Since 2003, Heaton has appeared in a series of humorous television commercials as spokesperson for the grocery store chain Albertsons.

Heaton has been married to British businessman David Hunt II since 1990. The couple has four sons and divides their time between Los Angeles and England, where they own a country estate.

Other views
Hi, I came in from RfC. I like the standardized birth info in the first sentence. I like the first-para reference to Everybody Loves Raymond; this may not always be the best lead-in for Ms. Heaton's life, but for the present era this establishes her most notable context. I think the Feminists for Life reference should be short, non-praising, and optionally quickly mention the two salient features of the group that make it unusual—it's leftist but it's anti-abortion. Something like: "Heaton is the honorary chairperson of Feminists for Life, a left-leaning group opposing abortion and cruelty." --Gary D 01:59, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)

Divorce and religion
Sources for Heaton having a divorce from her first husband, and currently attending a Presbyterian church: Denver Catholic Register(CNS) Sources for Heaton having a divorce from her first husband: IMDb, E! Online, Sources for Heaton attending a Presbyterian church nowadays: Netscape celebrity, her memoir, Motherhood and Hollywood - How to Get a Job Like Mine. Niteowlneils 22:15, 31 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Hey and by the way, it put's her in the Roman Catholic Category when a documentary on E! w/ her saying that she has been reborn as a Presbyterian, but it's better to say she is not an Catholic or a Presbyterian, but a CHRISTIAN. Does it matter her denomination? Yes, but to categorize her as a Christian. The Texas Drama King 03:32, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

Red hair
She dyes her hair red. It's not natural. How is that her trademark, then? Mike H 21:33, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
 * It's what she's known for. Natural or not, it's how she appears to the public and is how she is known. Kurt Weber 6 July 2005 18:48 (UTC)

Random unsigned comments
I have a pic of her bare boobs (Shadow Gale)
 * Me, too. In fact, I came to this page to see if anyone was talking about them.  I meant, it,  the pic. 65.6.47.168 17:38, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

The falsifications in her conservative hit piece movie The Path to 9/11 are not "alleged". They are indeed false. See here: http://www.cnn.com/US/9607/30/clinton.terrorism 68.192.53.216 23:00, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Recent revisions
I tried to reformat her career info a bit, grouping it together with like info.

Also thought some of the text about her political views was a bit POV. I don't agree with her, but every article needs neutral POV, I tried to make this one more neutral. NickBurns 20:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The Political advocacy area is indeed a bit muddled. The Margaret Colin quote isn't relevant, since Ms. Heaton didn't say it. It's redundant, as the Feminists For Life association is well established in the article. Unless there's serious objections, I think it should be removed. For the record, I'm also on the fence about the POV of the Albertson's strike issue. For all we know, she taped the commercials well in advance and I don't see citation of any serious questioning of her intentions there. Thoughts?VanPelt101 20:39, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Unless there's an objection, I'm going to remove the reference to the Albertson's strike at this point. It's not really political advocacy to not comment on wages. VanPelt101 21:27, 1 December 2006 (UTC)

Stem cell
The way the paragraph about her opposition to medical research is worded makes it sound like her position is the only one any reasonable person would take, DONT TAKE SIDES, it needs rewritten.Stevenscollege 23:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I rewrote the paragraph, so now it just tells us the facts, she was in an commercial opposing a Missouri state constitutional amendment. Stevenscollege 23:40, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

As far as I know she only opposes EMBRYONIC stem cell research. Changing to clarify. 01:54, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Religion
What place does a statement about her religion have in a section entitled POLITICAL advocacy? Kinda sounds like the way the country is going...separation of church and state, yet it is never separated. 67.186.151.232 01:12, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Religion always has been part of the body politic. In the United States, however, we still enjoy the lack of "state sponsored or state mandated" religion.  If Ms. Heaton has religious beliefs that influence her politics, I expect she quite normal.  Have a nice day.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.210.143.162 (talk) 21:14, 4 August 2009 (UTC)

If an editor wanted, 'Religion' could be in the top right box of the article. Right? Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 00:18, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Per Template:Infobox_person, "If relevant. For living persons, please refer to WP:BLPCAT" -- which states, "Categories regarding religious beliefs or sexual orientation should not be used unless the subject has publicly self-identified with the belief or orientation in question, and the subject's beliefs or sexual orientation are relevant to their public life or notability, according to reliable published sources." --Musdan77 (talk) 19:09, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Broadway play?
Someone needs to add a mention of The Scene, the play Heaton is (currently?) appearing in on Broadway, to the "Career" section. It's discussed extensively in the NY Times article linked to at the bottom. I don't know how to do the citation correctly, or I'd do it myself. TysK 01:33, 29 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I see someone has added a reference and cleared up the problem. TysK 22:51, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Spouse David Hunt link
Is the wiki link to David Hunt in the info box correct? There are several David Hunt articles, and none of them seem to mention that Patricia Heaton is his spouse. If the link is not correct, the link should be removed, leaving just the raw text "David Hunt" name. Truthanado 04:07, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The correct link is David Hunt (actor), which does mention that he is Ms. Heaton's husband. The link was correct in the text, just wrong in the infobox. I have now corrected it. TysK 22:53, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

Breast Implants
It is well know she has breast implants this should be mentioned in the articleTG 50 20:31, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Provide 1) a resource that backs this up 2) provide a good reason why it's worthy to mention and then add it to the entry. Otherwise, I'd say the discussion isn't worth adding to her bio. Just sayng something's "well known" won't cut it.VanPelt101 21:12, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

I put up a resource her autobiography and and a personal qoute from her and i think the reason why this is worthy to mention is because it is a fact about the person and thier body and it also contributes a key part into the look of a person as she is free with her sexuality and her body and obvious likes to improve her looks to help her live healthy and feel good about her self and perfers big breasts.TG 50 01:04, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

It's quite obvious that she's had numerous cosmetic surgeries.

 * I would say that this is deeply relevant to her article because she spent a great deal of time in the press discussing her own plastic surgeries and speaking out against prejudice towards women who have had cosmetic surgery. However, I have no adequate resources to this effect. So I'm on the jury for "include, but reference." CouplandForever (talk) 06:11, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

Do a search on 'implants' on the article herein and you will have zero hits, ;-) which is appropriate since WP editors need to be extra cautious with a living person. (Wikipedia rules.) She looks lovely. And her personality is always charming. Be gracious and appreciative! — Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 00:15, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

No picture!
Can anyone find a photo for this article? I think she way too famous to not have a picture.
 * There is no date to the sentence/edit just above (and a picture has been added by an editor). I suggest two pictures! Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 15:11, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

No Belly Button!
In 'First', magazine for women, there is a picture of Patricia on her 50th birthday at a beach. And she has no belly button. Fatin '08! (talk) 01:17, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

Haha thats funny. Can you add a link? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.221.240.119 (talk) 20:07, 20 August 2009 (UTC)

It's true. I saw a photo of her bikini shot. However, it's not true that her 1st husband divorced her for that (it was the result of surgery after four c-sections). I actually knew her 1st husband, "Charlie", whom she divorced in 1987. He was a very nice guy and we lost contact before ELR started. We worked together in NYC (1992-94) as waiters. This was before she hit fame with ELR. He spoke about Patricia every once in a while and did mention he divorced her for fraud but he NEVER told me what the act of fraud was. Poor guy! I'm sure her stardom must have crushed him (He was a struggling theater actor back then). Good luck, Charlie!  79.43.162.24 (talk) 14:09, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Article targeted by Political Site
Fyi, this article is the target of a left wing political site. See http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x4645643 Dman727 (talk) 04:51, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

For your information, Democratic Underground is not a left wing hate site. Please accept the facts as they are. Sarah Palin endangered her own unborn child which contradicts both her and Ms. Heaton's Pro-Life stance. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jesus Faked his Death (talk • contribs) 05:59, 15 December 2008 (UTC)
 * In the interests of civility, I refactored my comments and section heading. I monitor the site frequently and some of the stuff I see posted puts shivers down my spin.  But I digress.  In any event, please bear in mind that drawn out dialogue on Sarah Palin really doesn't belong on this page.  If you have content to contribute on the Alaskanian Governor, her page is a better choice.  The comments which you posted on this page, belong to the realm of WP:OR and probably WP:SYN as well.  If you can find a reliable source which discusses Patricia Heatons views on Palins trip, that is something which could possibly be added.  Finally, please take a look at WP:NOT.  Its important not to take political battles from other pages to Wikipedia.  We all have our biases, but its important for the project to keep them off wikipedia for the sake of the project. Dman727 (talk) 07:24, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

The article seems biased where her politics is concerned. Did she really do all that apologizing? What did she have to apologize for? That seems very fishy to me. How about some documentation? For the record, I think she's great. She should run for office. --24.177.0.156 (talk) 16:33, 25 October 2015 (UTC)

Union Issues
During a grocery store strike, Heaton crossed the picket lines (metaphorically) by agreeing to shoot commercials (she was spokeswoman for Albertsons chain). She tried to duck responsibility by claiming that she was under contract, but others contradicted her pointing out that the talent unions have provisions that protect members from having to do so. It was the first time her politics became widely known. RoyBatty42 (talk) 18:57, 21 May 2011 (UTC)

Link correction
The is no correct. It chould be http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0461660/link to The Engagement Ring — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.82.9.92 (talk) 19:24, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

QUESTION: Does the unsigned reader mean 'The' or 'This' and  'no' or 'not' and 'could' or 'should' ? At any rate, the article links are fine.

Do a Google-search and you can find Patricia Heaton in "The Engagement Ring" at http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0461660/ (and if you have 'link' after that, the page is not found.)

 * ✅ — Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 00:08, 7 April 2014 (UTC)

Her humanitarian efforts in times of national disaster
Headine-1: Patricia Heaton calls for help for Philippines QUOTE: “ NOV 22, 2013” [She supported Helping Hands after the typhoon in the Philippines] — Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 20:02, 6 April 2014 (UTC)
 * http://worldvisionmagazine.org/story/patricia-heaton-calls-help-philippines

Editing Eden Sher's page
Hello fellow Wikipedia editors! I am interested in helping to improve Eden Sher’s Wikipedia page as part of a class project. I was thinking about adding more information to the personal life section, which could use some development. If you have any suggestions as to other parts of her page that could use some development or new sections that should be added to her page, feel free to let me know as I am willing to help improve this page as much as possible. Thank you for your help! Kmccamy14 (talk) 02:49, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Hi Kmccamy14. Did you mean to post this message at Eden Sher's page? Safehaven86 (talk) 03:00, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Hi Safehaven86. I actually already posted this message a few days ago to Eden Sher's page, but I have not yet received any feedback and I thought it would be helpful if I posted my message to a related page to try to receive some feedback. I'm not sure how active Eden Sher's page is, but I am still waiting for replies. Kmccamy14 (talk) 03:35, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

 * Ok, gotcha. Just wanted to make sure. I'll respond to you at Eden Sher. Safehaven86 (talk) 03:43, 6 November 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Patricia Heaton. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
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External links modified
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Vandalism
Can somebody sort out the "death" of Patricia please ..........80.192.223.213 (talk) 09:37, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * ✅. Thank you. Dr.   K.  10:16, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

"FourBoys Entertainment" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect FourBoys Entertainment. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 October 17 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. 𝟙𝟤𝟯𝟺𝐪𝑤𝒆𝓇𝟷𝟮𝟥𝟜𝓺𝔴𝕖𝖗𝟰 (𝗍𝗮𝘭𝙠) 21:18, 17 October 2020 (UTC)

Height
Not sure if this matters, but she's 5'3" tall or 63 inches tall... Jacobroecker (talk) 02:33, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

January 6
In the first paragraph of the "Politics" section, the last sentence reads:

An IP editor is edit-waring to replace it with this version:

I invite the IP and other interested editors to offer their opinion on how that sentence should read. Let's see if a consensus can form to keep it or an alternate version. — Archer1234  (t·c) 11:53, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Comment: My first inclination is to keep the version that uses that title of the linked article "January 6 United States Capitol attack" as I expect that a lot of time and effort went into getting consensus for that article title. I am open to other neutral POV alternatives (e.g., protest, riot, events) if there is consensus around them. If Heaton has specifically refered to the occasion in a particular way, we could quote her and then it would be her own words and not in Wikipedia voice. —  Archer1234  (t·c) 11:59, 11 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Patricia Heaton