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Talk:Oddworld

Fangus not in OddWorld?
In the "Unreleased games" section, it mentions the "The Brutal Ballad of Fangus Klot" is not likley to be set in oddworld. Does anybody have proof or is this speculation? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Noxis12 (talk • contribs).

Lorne Lanning, the creator of Oddworld and Fanugs, explained it to my friend Xavier and I when we had a sit down chat with him and Sherry McKenna in October 2006. I publicized the information on our fansite, OddBlog: http://oddworldlibrary.net/oddblog/specials/Meeting_Lorne_and_Sherry Wil (talk) 15:58, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Spring Cleaning
This article is in serious need of some re-amping, if nobody else is about to do it, I'll take it upon myself. - Nepharski 11:56 AM, 8th of January 2006

Pictures
These games are graphically very strong, and there's plenty of material available to add to this article. I think it would be great if some pictures were added.--Michiel Sikma 20:09, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

I added a small bit about the inhabitants of the planet itself.

Splitting Up
Anyone else think we can make articles for the individual games and put some of this in there? --InShaneee 04:33, 17 Feb 2005 (UTC)

 * That sounds a bonza idea! --fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 19:03, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

abe's oddyssey and abe's exoddus both redirect to oddworld article, which barely mentiones them Tani unit 06:45, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 * anyone cares to explain where the individual game articles are?

 * There is an Abe's Oddysee article, but the redirects and search pages are all screwed up. And for some reason, all the articles about Oddworld that I can find are really poorly written. Even this one. Nothing I can do about it, I'm a really bad editor Vimescarrot 20:47, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

I think we should add a spoiler warning at the top of the article
I nearly read the stranger spoiler from my watchlist about why he needs 20000 moolah, but lucky i didn't read it fully, so can someone add a spoiler warning at the top?

Dumoren 06:40, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Links?
Some of the links under the species section (Ratz, Slogs, Slegs, Grubbs) lead to articles unrelated to the game rather than articles having to do with the Oddworld species. Fix? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 144.80.107.170 (talk) 06:45, 6 December 2006 (UTC).

 * Fixed. --Mika1h 08:56, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Small doubt
Excuse me, English it is not my native laguage and there is something I didn't get to understand. When it says "Oddworld, as a planet, is measured as ten times the size of the Earth" it means ten times bigger or ten times smaller? thank you

It means 10 times bigger then earth. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Noxis12 (talk • contribs). Thank you noxis —Preceding unsigned comment added by Emanuel556 (talk • contribs) 05:40, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Merger proposal
The article Mudos does not seem to have sufficient stand-alone notability to warrant an article. As the fiction guideline specifies, "fictional concepts are deemed notable if they have received substantial coverage in reliable secondary sources." The only source cited in this article is a wiki, which is not within policy. However, since it is a plausible search term, I would prefer to propose merging the article rather than nominate it for deletion. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 00:34, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I redirected it. It was just one of the ten or so randomly created articles for this series that asserted absolutely no notability. TTN (talk) 00:38, 18 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Suits me. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 00:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

De-listify and de-cruft "Creatures" section
This section is a bit too crufty and unnecessary information, such as the notable characters that belong to the races, needs to be removed. All of the creatures that only serve as ammo in Stranger's Wrath probably need to be removed as well. And while I don't think it's a necessity, it would be really cool if it could be rewritten so that it doesn't look like a list as well. It would enhance the quality of the article as well. ♣ Bishop Tutu   Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 05:47, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Think of Sevel Nord butchering most of the Citroen Jumpies from 1995 til 2006. You did the same, as you completely butchered the Creatures list. =¦ Tommy Vercetti 15:28, February 15, 2008. ¦= —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.203.123.249 (talk) 15:30, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Arbitrary section break

 * (un-indent) Forgive my comments, I do not assume you are an internet amateur. I simply assumed that you may not be fully aware of the various policies and guidelines of Wikipedia. Even experienced editors are not always aware of them all.
 * I'll be honest with you, the fact that the developers have listed and rated them on a page on their own site, says to me that these are probably not your average, loosely-thrown-together fansites. That is the main reason I'm willing to try to compromise. However, I must point out that the statement of endorsement is almost three years old. While I'm sure the websites have tried to maintain and/or improve the level of quality, that time gap doesn't exactly help your case.
 * The other reason is that some people come to Wikipedia looking for content that is more akin to a game guide, rather than an encyclopedic video game article. External links can offer information more along the lines of what they are looking for. This way, the content remains encyclopedic, users can access the information they're looking for, and everybody is happy.
 * Another issue that has now come up is the ownership of the Oddworld Forums. Technically, I could claim that I own them too. But because identities are not linked to editor accounts or even IP address in way that is readily available to the general public, there is no way for us to prove that and thus no guarantee of moderation. Now I'm not calling you a liar, I'm sure you are the owner.
 * However, if that is case, then this falls under Conflict of interest. I'm sure you only want to allow fans to reach other fans, but this can easily be interpreted by others as promotion of your website. If you want to continue to reach a compromise, then I honestly suggest dropping the Forum issue. If you are willing to do that, then I'm more than willing to talk about the other sites. I'm already willing to support the inclusion of Oddworld Library, as it is arguable that it is an exception to WP:EL. Though I feel it fair to say that I can't really speak for other editors. (Guyinblack25 talk 23:32, 6 February 2008 (UTC))

 * As for the conflict of interest with ownership of the OWF, I can not see it being an issue as we are the only forum dedicated to the Oddworld franchise, we generate no income, and we already have a high placing in search engines. So, as you pointed out, this is a case of providing fans with other avenues of information and help. As for moderation, the forums will be celebrating their eighth birthday this coming May - they aren't a new upstart and I can assure you they are well maintained. If it were any different I wouldn't have a problem with them being removed, but this is honest work looking for honest recognition.
 * I'm sorry, but this is a sticky situation. Other than your word, there is technically no way for you to prove your ownership, nor is there a way to guarantee the level of quality of the content in the forum postings. I'm glad that your forum has enjoyed a successful eight years, but this still falls under a conflict of interest. It does not matter if you are the only Oddworld forum, it is still the owner of a website adding the respective link to a Wikipedia article. I understand you are well-intentioned, but this is not something that will help the inclusion of the other links. (Guyinblack25 talk 00:02, 7 February 2008 (UTC))

 * I also want to mention something: a fundamental thing that is forgotten in practically all disputes like this is that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a database to cover every nook and cranny of a subject. Plenty of other sites exist to do this, namely all of the fansites that need to be removed from the external links section. Every notable aspect of Oddworld needs to be touched on slightly, not completely covered. It's aggravating at times because people forget this, mainly because it's an online encyclopedia and the urge to fill it up with as much info as possible proves too great sometimes, especially for video games. ♣  Klptyzm   Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 01:00, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Klptyzm, you say that Wikipedia isn't supposed to "cover every nook and cranny of a subject" and that it is the fansites which make up for WP's brevity. Yet you want to remove the links. I'm confused. By removing the links, you prevent people from visiting the other sites where WP's shortcomings are addressed.
 * Guyinblack25, other than sending an email from the OWF server, there really isn't any other way to prove I own them. And if it can't be proven then the Conflict of Interest issue is a moot point. My argument is that the forums are well kept, there is no competition (so this isn't a means of gaining one-up over others), we aren't increasing pagerank, and we earn no income from the promotion of the sites (the money to pay for everything comes out of our own wallets). The Oddworld Forums are there to connect fans with other fans, provide a means to gathering more information, and offer help services for the series / games. In other words, it once again addresses the shortcomings of Wikipedia.217.150.112.45 (talk) 10:42, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

 * fansites and forums are discouraged on wikipedia; there is nothing special about these particular sites; this is not a place for a few fanboys to advertise their sites Bridies (talk) 15:13, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Discouraged, yes. But not outright forbidden. As for "nothing special", you've once again proved that you've merely skimmed through all the discussion here (which is terribly unbecoming of an editor). I realise this is not a place for fanboys or fangirls to advertise. Once again I'll refer you to the reasons stated in the discussion above as to why they're legimate entries. By the way, I took the liberty of formatting your response, as it wasn't exactly sticking to the flow. I'm sure you meant well.217.150.112.45 (talk) 15:49, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

 * (un-indent) I'm sorry, but the Forum issue is a catch 22 for you. If you are not the owner, you cannot guarantee moderation and quality control of the content of a privately owned fan forum. That is one of the main reasons forums are not added as external links. If you are, it is a conflict of interest as it can easily be interpreted as promotion of your website, regardless of income, competition or otherwise.
 * If you seriously want to reach a compromise, I honestly suggest you drop the forum issue. For a few extra reasons, in addition to what I just mentioned. I have personally never been involved in a conflict of interest issue, and am not entirely sure how to proceed. Therefore, if the issue is pressed, I'll have to call in a more experienced editor that has dealt with it before. Here's what will probably happen. They will look at your edit history, which even in my opinion falls under WP:DISRUPT, and they will react accordingly. The edit warring will more than likely continue. As a result all the external links will probably be removed, your various IP addresses may end up getting blocked, and the page may end up getting semi-protected so that no anonymous IP address can edit it. And we will go all the way back to square one, which I don't want and I don't think you do either.
 * Forgive my tone in the following sentences, but I feel it necessary to get perspective on the issue. The reason they will think so is because you did not engage in discussion in a timely manner. You did not try to explain your position until pressed to do so. You're first responses were uncivil and included comments which could (and were) interpreted as rude, name-calling, judgmental, and condescending. You have also insisted to assert your point by continue to edit war with editors over the inclusion of the content while the discussion was on-going and even when you were asked to stop until a consensus was reached.
 * After saying all that, I poise a question, "regardless whether they were right or wrong, what would you do if you had a member on your forum that behaved that way?"
 * Now, I think an agreement can be reached, but not if things continue in this manner. You have stopped the uncivil comments with me and I greatly appreciate that, that is more than some IP's do. But before we continue, the edit warring needs to stop and the forum issue is best dropped. (Guyinblack25 talk 15:55, 7 February 2008 (UTC))

 * Regarding the forum issue, even if the direct link were to be dropped, the prescence of feature articles still remains. A lot of the threads on the forums act as official sources of information - information which is not replicated elsewhere. By providing direct links, we negate the need for amassing twenty or so links to individual threads. Which, I may add, would, if this were about promotion, only increase it. With the default inclusion of a forum-wide search function, I believed the best option was to default it to one link, as opposed to many.
 * I realise the position I've put myself in, but as I've made clear, it is a compromise I'd like to achieve. I'd be willing to drop OWW/OWU as they don't contain as definitive articles, but TOL and OWF are certainly well within their rights to be left alone. As for other editors / locking, do what you must, as I've said before I'll be around for many years to come - how many editors will remain for that long, or even devout their time to checking this page everyday? It's obviously best to reach a compromise. 217.150.112.45 (talk) 16:15, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * now you're just blatantly threating to continue vandalizing the article (in addition to admiting you're pushing your own agenda by including these links, not that it wasn't obvious anyway); the watchlist takes care of having to check the page. by the way, skim reading is all that's needed to determine the nature of the links. if there's reliable, relevant information (that can't be found elsewhere) in certain forum threads, put it in the article and cite the thread, as per the video gaming project's manual of style. 'twenty or so links' is fine as long as they are relevant; wikipedia is not paper. a general link to the forum/fansite is not: if someone wants forum discussion and fancruft they use google, not wikipedia. going on about my typos just demonstrates you don't have a leg to stand on btw. Bridies (talk) 16:32, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I appreciate the willingness to drop the other two sites, but I still remain firm on my stance with the forum. Though others may disagree, I'd be more willing to include one of the other two sites rather than the forum.
 * As a side note, I suggest changing the focus of your edits. Instead of trying to include some external links, I'd use your passion for the games to improve the quality of the game articles. Though fansites are frowned upon for news, reviews, and game info, they have been deemed acceptable sources by the VG Project for transcripts of developer interviews. The OWW and OWU have an ample supply of such content which would greatly benefit the development sections of several articles. They could be cited as sources and the direct links would be in references section.
 * As I have pointed out, the very nature of forums exclude them as reliable sources except in very rare cases, normally officially owned and operated forums. This also coincides with why they are normally excluded in external links sections. As Bridies has pointed out, it is not the purpose of Wikipedia to help fans connect with other fans.
 * This will be last time I post before I ask another editor for advice and/or to assist with the issue. I hope you reconsider your position. (Guyinblack25 talk 16:51, 7 February 2008 (UTC))
 * i agree that the forum link is unacceptable. One of the two fansites as a compromise is acceptable to me also, providing the advertorial language previously accompanying it is removed. Bridies (talk) 16:56, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Bridies, I have no idea what you're going on about. Not only are you not making sense, but where did I correct your spelling (that being said, yes, a little attention to grammar and spelling would go along way)? Furthermore, where is there advertorial material accompanying the links to OWW/OWU? Once again I'm left with the overwhelming sense that you aren't investigating any aspect of this issue - but merely intermittedly passing by to earn brownie points with other editors. How very childish.
 * Guyinblack25, as for improving the quality of the games article, I thought that was why you were here? I don't mean to be rude, but so far I haven't seen anything by way of improvement. As for using my passion, the idea has already been suggested to at least one other Administrator of the Oddworld Forums. We'll see where a combined effort leads us. However, cheers for actually delving somewhat into the actual fansites to investigate. 217.150.112.45 (talk) 17:38, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Assistance has been request, as by the tone and content of your comment, I assume your position has not altered. Regarding your comment to Bridies, I assume they were referring to your formatting edit of their comments. So there is no need to be uncivil.
 * As far as the improvement of this and related articles, I hope something comes out your efforts, as I'm not on this page to improve its content. I came here to help resolve an edit conflict. I see no need to make such improvements on a subject I am neither knowledgeable about nor interested in. (Guyinblack25 talk 18:31, 7 February 2008 (UTC))
 * Wow, man. This is ridiculous. The mere fact that this discussion has gone on so long shows a blatant conflict of interest, in my opinion. While, of course, you probably really do want to give users who view the page an outlet to more information, please explain to me how these users couldn't go find these sites on their own without them having to be posted on Wikipedia? I oppose the inclusion of the fansites because a policy says to exclude them. Why not include every single fansite of every single subject so that no info is missed? Why not go ahead and make things easier and just add every single piece of information on the subject in the Wikipedia article??? All you're doing is interpreting enough of WP:EL to keep sites in that you more than likely have personal ties to. This is growing to be the second most ridiculous incident I have ever seen on Wikipedia. Hell, this article itself probably shouldn't even exist: if you're so worried about improving the article quality, why haven't you attempted to actually improve the article? This has a very blatant in-universe bias, practically no sources, and hardly says anything about the development of the world or Oddworld Inhabitants itself. Like I said before, the article is already a travesty on its own. The blatant disregard of part of a policy makes this page worse. ♣  Klptyzm   Chat wit' me  §   Contributions ♣ 19:08, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Oddworld feature film?
I remember coming to this page some time ago and seeing some info about an upcoming planned Oddworld animated feature. Whatever happened to that, and was there originally a source for that information? Esn (talk) 22:29, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I didn't remove it personally, but I believe the source was unreliable (a wiki, if I remember correctly). Bridies (talk) 22:42, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Citizen Siege? What does this film have to do with Oddworld?  The plot doesn't seem to be related at all. PubliusFL (talk) 21:09, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Editing
I edited the section on gamespeak a little, hope I did alright.

By the way, the section on future games should just be changed into a section about when the games were announced. And the info should be stripped down to the bare facts, such as, "This was said on that date by this person concerning that". That way it's not speculatory, it's recording events chronologically. :)

-Searchman —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.196.11.183 (talk) 02:56, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Merge
The article has a bit of relevant real world information, so it can either go under a specific character section or development section. TTN (talk) 20:53, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Hi again TTN :-) I oppose the merge of Abe (Oddworld) and Oddworld. There is more than "a bit" of relevant real world information in the Abe article, and I'm sure that much more real world information could be added (I only did a cursory Google search and I don't have any offline sources available). I see that the series has seven games plus future games and films and not all of these revolve around Abe, so why have information about him clogging up the main series article? Abe (Oddworld) is already more than 12kb with just one paragraph of plot per game in the biography section (the characteristics section needs more real world info and sourcing), which I think is allowable to describe the character's actions and development. If the article is merged, where will this information go? I think the Abe article has the potential to be like Kratos (God of War), but if it is merged there will not be room for both it and the main series article to develop. Bláthnaid   talk  21:15, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The article currently has a few sentences of primary real world information. That kind does not establish any sort of notability. If you can create a reception section that amounts to more than a bunch of passing mentions of the character, that would actually do something. Series articles often have summaries of the games within them, so that would be fine here. One section titled "Characters" could cover a trimmed down version of the characteristics section, which is definitely bloated, and other characters of the series. The same character section could hold the real world information, or it could be placed into a development section. TTN (talk) 21:27, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * What is "primary real world information"? I don't usually edit video game articles, so I don't know all the terms. The real world information I added to the article I found in just an hour's searching and editing. Don't you think that a more knowledgeable person with more resources could find much more? There are also WP:RSs used to source plot information. As to the character's notability, please look at books like this, (page 137 in particular) where the character is written about like he was a character in a novel or film. I'll look for more sources and information, but I have other articles on my to-do list so it might take me a few days. Bláthnaid   talk  21:40, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Primary real world information is stuff like creation and development information. It allows for context, but it does not show that the topic is notable to the world. The kind that establishes notability is reception and real world impact. It has to show that the character is more than a part of the game series. TTN (talk) 21:51, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for explaining. However, the main notability guideline says "If a topic has received significant coverage in reliable secondary sources that are independent of the subject, it is presumed to be a suitable article topic."--this is in the article. The WP:FICT essay says it "should demonstrate real-world notability from reliable sources. Articles on of works of fiction should strive to include information on critical reception, viewings or sales figures, development and other information from reliable sources."--some of this is in the article. WP:FICT also says "For fictional elements, this will typically include the real-world context and analysis of the elements, and can [not should] include influence and other aspects of its development, critical reception of the elements, and popularity of the element through readership/viewership ratings and marketing." (my italics and inclusion)--There is information on real-world context, analysis, and information about popularity in the article. You seem to be asking for more than the basic notability guideline and fiction essay requires. Anyway the lead section now has information about how the character is more than a part of the series, and I will keep adding more information and sources. Bláthnaid   talk  21:14, 18 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm talking about actual practice rather than A says B. Those can only go so far as guidelines, so they cannot specifically state everything that belongs in an article. Characters need reception to show notability. Creation helps, but primary information is not something that can show "This is notable in the real world." TTN (talk) 12:54, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree as the guidelines are supposed to describe the generally accepted standard for notability, and the article also meets the stricter WP:FICT essay. That being said, there was already some information about real world impact and reception in the article, and I have added more. Bláthnaid   talk  17:18, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * My point is that they can't directly state what is necessary. Generally, two or more paragraphs are necessary for video game characters, but they can't really state something so specific. The information in the article is on the right track, but it really isn't enough. Cloud Strife, Sarah Kerrigan, Soma Cruz, and Arbiter (Halo) are some good examples of what is necessary. TTN (talk) 17:58, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * They are Good Articles. This is not a Good Article nomination. I am just establishing this article's basic notability, so that it can remain and be developed and improved in the future. The article meets WP:N, WP:FICT, and I have added information that shows the character has had real-world impact (by the way, it looks likely that Abe was featured in 2 songs by Music Instructor, not just one; however, I haven't found a WP:RS for this information yet.) Bláthnaid   talk  18:32, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

I think the Oddworld article should just be deleted. At most any relevant information could be merged, either with Abe or with the individual game articles. I think, Blathnaid, that it's Oddworld that needs to be merged with something else, rather than Abe. Abe's article may meet the various guidelines but this article doesn't. Bridies (talk) 16:44, 19 September 2008 (UTC)
 * While it is organized strangely, it is still a series article. Those are usually fine to have around. TTN (talk) 12:54, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, the article isn't great. I have some WP:RS gathered that can be used in this article, so I will try to improve it a little. Bláthnaid   talk  17:18, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

There appears to be a lot of support for merge at the recent AFD, and I'd throw in my support for a merge as well. Article fails a lot of guidelines and policies by itself (particularly WP:V and WP:N), but it might be a great addition to an existing article about the series. Randomran (talk) 22:24, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
 * The article does meet WP:V. All the real-world information is sourced to reliable secondary sources, and it is acceptable to use the game itself as a source of basic plot information (WP:PRIMARY). I have also added quite a few secondary sources to support plot information (here, for example.) I also think it meets WP:N, as I explained above. Bláthnaid   talk  22:19, 10 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Merge reverted because most oppose. -- 92.1.230.129 (talk) 17:10, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Quintology, not Pentalogy
Please stop changing this. The title of the series is the Oddworld Quintology. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.220.178.134 (talk) 09:26, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Abou
About this SligStorm game,isn't a Slig a big ugly beast that was in Oddworld:Stanger's Warth? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.71.63.46 (talk) 17:27, 3 October 2011 (UTC)

Article Title
I'm thinking the title and this page are out of sync with each other. The lead starts off talking about Oddworld, as in, a fictional planet, but then the body of the article talks about the games that have been produced by Oddworld Inhabitants as a real-world production company. So is this article about a fictional planet, or about the real life creators of the games that take place on this fictional planet? And furthermore, there is a separate article titled Oddworld Inhabitants that is very bare-bones. Hence, that and this article should be combined into one, under the title of Oddworld Inhabitants talking about the production company. Then, the lead in this article should be moved into the main body under a section titled Oddworld, which would concern the planet itself.

U2hmtmkmkm (talk) 11:31, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Oddworld


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Making Period Mail

Making Period Mail was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was transwiki to Wikibooks. As of 17:02, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC), the article is still in the queue to be moved. Rossami (talk)

A "how to". RickK 23:05, Jul 21, 2004 (UTC)
 * I moved the nice images to chainmail, don't see too much worth merging, so delete as a "how to"... furthermore, the chainmail page already links to two external "how to"s...--Fastfission 23:56, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I'd be glad to refactor some of that info and merge it with Renaissance Faire or something... that's what Period likely refers to... ren faire folk arfe notorious for calling their ye Olde Dye Spot garments "period" they arfe. but it's too big to all go in. (Pedant)4.41.26.37 08:38, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. You can tell the author thanks for the images though.  Postdlf 00:51, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * "Period" being? Delete.  Glad the young folks are keeping busy, but this is a how-to. Geogre 01:35, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * I think this is useful and interesting information. Agree that it's a "how to" that may fit better in Wikibooks. After transwiki, make this a redirect to chainmail (so it doesn't pop up again). Rossami 03:56, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Move to Wikibooks and delete. Wile E. Heresiarch 02:14, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Move to Wikibooks and delete. ··gracefool |☺ 02:01, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Transwiki to wikibooks — siro  χ  o  09:10, Oct 16, 2004 (UTC)

I'd be glad to refactor some of that but it's too big to all go in

 * move to wikibooks, keep, rename to Chainmail manufacture, and expand to focus on historical production methods. dab 12:01, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
User talk:Weyoun6

ようこそ！
Welcome. Please feel free to put any comments or concerns here. Please sign your messages. --Weyoun6 20:43, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

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title: User talk:Weyoun6


text:
Stevens Point Brewery

Stevens Point Brewery is a regional American brewery located in Stevens Point, Wisconsin. The brewery is the fifth-oldest continuously operating brewery and the third-oldest privately owned brewery in the nation.

The company's sales volume among all breweries in the nation increased from 50th in 2009 to 32nd in 2015. Among craft breweries, the company's sales volume ranks 25th in the nation as of 2015.

The brewer has won awards several times including the category for American-style amber three times for their Point Amber Classic brand (Gold in 1996; Silver in 2002; Gold in 2012), and three times in the Schwarzbier category for their Point 2012 Black Ale (Silver in 2011; Silver in 2012; Gold in 2013). The brewer has also won awards for other brands in its portfolio.

History
The company was founded in 1857 by George Ruder and Frank Wahle. In 1864, the company provided its beer to the troops during the American Civil War. The brewery was subsequently sold to Andrew and Jacob Lutz in 1867. The Lutz family continued operations until it was sold to Gustav Kuenzel in 1897. The company was then organized as the Gustav Kuenzel Brewing Company in 1901. The following year, it was renamed the Stevens Point Brewing Company. Ludwig Korfman purchased a controlling interest in the company in 1924 and reorganized the company as the Stevens Point Beverage Company. The company faced local competition from the mid-1860s through the Prohibition era of the 1920s, when the remaining competition went out of business. During the 1950s, the brewery began using cans in production. In 1973, Point Special brand beer was rated the top American beer in a taste test as reported by Mike Royko, a prominent columnist for the Chicago Daily News. By the 1970s the company was owned by Felix and Ken Shibilski. In 1990, the company first began selling its product outside Wisconsin, in Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, and Minnesota. In 1992, the Shibilskis sold the company to Chicago-based Barton Beers Ltd. The new ownership was unique for Barton in that Point beer was its only domestic product line, with all of its other offerings being imports. The company planned to tie sales to its Mexican brand, Corona, but when that brand's sales exploded, the Point brand became a distraction. In 2002, the company was sold back to Wisconsin ownership by Milwaukee-based real estate developers Joe Martino and Jim Wiechmann. That same year, the company introduced gourmet sodas to its beverage list. In 2003, Point Special won the gold medal at the Great American Beer Festival in the premium lager category. In 2005, the company bought four beer brands from the James Page Brewing Company. By 2008, the company's products were distributed to 18 different states. For nearly 20 years, the company brewed and bottled Karl Strauss Brewing Company brands until production was moved in January, 2009. The company expanded its annual brewery capacity to 100,000 barrels in 2011, and to 150,000 barrels in 2013.

Alcoholic beverages

 * Point Special Lager
 * Point Bock Seasonal
 * Point Amber Classic
 * Point Cascade Pale Ale
 * Point Belgian White Wheat Ale
 * Point Onyx Black Ale
 * Point Three Kings Kolsh Style Ale
 * Point Nude Beach Summer Wheat
 * Point Oktoberfest
 * Point St. Benedict's Winter Ale
 * Point Drop Dead Blonde
 * Point Smiley Blue Pils
 * Point Beyond the Pale IPA
 * Whole Hog Raspberry Saison
 * Whole Hog Russian Imperial Stout
 * Whole Hog Six Hop India Pale Ale (IPA)
 * Whole Hog Scotch Ale
 * Whole Hog Barley Wine Style Ale
 * Whole Hog Pumpkin Ale
 * JP Casper White Stout
 * JP Yabba Dhabba Chai Tea Porter
 * JP Ould Sod Irish Red India Pale Ale (IPA)
 * JP Accapella Gluten-Free Pale Ale
 * Ciderboys First Press
 * Ciderboys Magic Apple
 * Ciderboys Peach County
 * Ciderboys Raspberry Smash
 * Ciderboys Cranberry Road
 * Ciderboys Mad Bark

 * Baraboo Brewing Company brand beers, produced for Hy-Vee supermarkets.
 * Woodpecker Wheat
 * Lumberjack IPA
 * Red Granite Lager
 * Snow Drift Black IPA
 * Bonfire Märzen

 * Former production
 * Point Holiday Beer (1935–1940)
 * Prize Beer (1935–1940)
 * Big Charlie Beer (1937–1944)
 * Amber Prize Beer (1939–1950)
 * Karl Strauss Brewing Company brands (1989–2009)

Gourmet sodas

 * Point Premium Root Beer
 * Point Premium Diet Root Beer
 * Point Premium Vanilla Cream Soda
 * Point Premium Black Cherry Cream Soda
 * Point Premium Orange Cream Soda
 * Point Premium Kitty Cocktail Soda

title: Stevens Point Brewery


text:
Barometer Rising

Barometer Rising is a romantic-realist novel by Canadian author Hugh MacLennan. The work explores life in Halifax, Nova Scotia during World War I, and its interruption by the Halifax explosion. The narrative predominantly follows and pivots upon the romantic life of Penny Wain.

The book had been difficult to publish as MacLennan had previously written regarding international themes, while Barometer Rising contained a decidedly nationalist overtone. Once published, the novel was wildly successful, and permitted MacLennan to leave his full-time job at Lower Canada College.

The novel, with afterword by Alistair MacLeod, ranks among the books which compose the New Canadian Library.

Background
Dorothy Duncan, Hugh MacLennan's wife, convinced him that the failure of his first two novels arose from not truly knowing the setting, as one had been set in Europe and the other in the United States. She encouraged him to write about Canada, the country he knew best. She told him that "Nobody's going to understand Canada until she evolves a literature of her own, and you're the fellow to start bringing Canadian novels up to date." Barometer Rising became Hugh MacLennan's first published novel. He drew upon his own experiences of the Halifax Explosion, having survived it as ten-year-old boy, but also on Homer's Odyssey for narrative direction.

Prior to MacLennan's novel, there had been no real tradition of Canadian literature; he sought to define Canada for Canadians through a national novel.

Plot summary
The novel takes place during the week of the Halifax Explosion - 2 December 1917 to 10 December 1917.

Penelope Wain believes that her cousin, Neil Macrae, has been killed while serving overseas under her father, Colonel Geoffrey Wain. The family is under the impression that Neil had died in the disgrace of desertion. Neil, however, had not died, but has returned to Halifax to clear his name of its tarnish. Neil seeks Alec MacKenzie, the only other survivor of their unit who can confirm that Colonel Wain had given an contradictory order, which was impossible to fulfill. When the order ended in disaster, Colonel Wain attempted to blame Neil in hopes of retaining his position in the military. Yet, prior to the court martial, Neil was believed to have died in artillery strike. Colonel Wain was forced to return to Canada as a transportation officer.

In Halifax, the war has given Penny the opportunity to become a successful naval architect at the Halifax Shipyard. She develops a friendship with Angus Murray, a doctor wounded from the war. Angus eventually proposes marriage to Penny; she defers the proposal. While her father, Colonel Wain, disapproves of Angus, he warms up to him after learning that Neil is alive and in Halifax. Neil and Penny had also been lovers and Angus realizes that Colonel Wain is desperate to ensure that Neil is not court martialed and given an opportunity to clarify the occurrences overseas. The colonel had been offered a new position in the war, and the trial will ruin his promotion.

Penny and Neil are briefly reunited, but Penny finds herself unable to reveal that she has given birth to their daughter, Jean, after their affair in Montreal. Jean had been adopted and cared for by her aunt and uncle. Angus intrudes upon the reunion to warn Neil of the colonel's intentions. Neil leaves to find Alec, who is willing to testifying in Neil's defence, despite the colonel providing Alec with a job at the shipyard. The men are later joined by Angus, who also agrees to testify in favour of Neil.

On the following morning, the Halifax Explosion occurs. The blast kills several characters, including Penny's aunt and uncle.

Neil and Murray manage to rescue Alec and his wife from their house, although Alec had sustained grievous injury. Once the two men locate Penny, who had been wounded in the eye, Angus sets up a makeshift hospital at the Wains' house. Meanwhile, Neil enters the city to procure supplies and assist with rescue efforts, no longer concerned who will recognize him. Neil, however, is shocked when he finds Colonel Wain's dead body in the wreckage of the explosion. Although Alec dies from his injuries, he and Murray acquire an affidavit with a testimony to clear Neil's name. When Penny had recovered sufficiently from her injury and her surgery, she goes with Neil to retrieve Jean.

Influence
In Hugo MacPherson's 1958 preface, he describes Barometer Rising as "a major weather sign in the history of Canadian writing", which spurred the most productive period in Canadian writing.

Potential movie
Crawley Films Limited of Ottawa bought the film rights to Barometer Rising by February 1962 with the intent of making a main-feature movie.

title: Barometer Rising


text:
Wikipedia talk:Image source files

Missing sources for images
Moved from the village pump

Wikipedians have produced many maps, diagrams, graphs and figures available under the GFDL. But just having the image isn't quite enough, because it's hard to edit a diagram unless you have the sources that were used to make it. All you can really do with the image is scribble over the top.

(A real example: I noticed a couple of missing ships on User:Gsl's excellent map at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Battle_of_Aboukir_Bay.png. With access to the GIMP source for the image, I could have added the ships myself. But lacking the source, instead I asked Gsl to improve it.)

So I think that Wikipedia should encourage illustrators to upload their sources along with the image. Of course, not every contributor will be able to use the GIMP, or Adobe Illustrator, or 3D Studio Max or whatever. But having the source will mean that several people can work on an image, and there is a chance to continue to make improvements to the image when the original illustrator is busy or away. Gdr 13:01, 2004 Jul 16 (UTC)

 * I second this request. I try to upload the source (wether .psd, source code of some sort, etc) along with pictures. It is sometimes problematic, when the source is a lot larger than the image, but I think it is worth it. David Remahl 16:00, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Thirded! I started something like this for maps: WikiProject Maps/Source materials. We could definitely use a nice repository for all sorts of source material, though. One definite problem: Many source materials will be significantly larger than our 2MB upload limit; my automobile diagram model is verging on 4MB, for instance. A lot of SVG or similar stuff could be ZIPped to under 2MB, though. -- Wapcaplet 01:38, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I have created a new page for listing image source files: Image source files. Please improve as needed, and link to it from appropriate places. -- Wapcaplet 03:07, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * That's a good start, but I don't think it will scale. The best thing to do would be to put a notice on each image page explaining where to find the sources for that image. To help people do this, the Wikipedia software at Special:Upload should prompt you to upload sources with each image. Gdr 11:02, 2004 Jul 21 (UTC)

Agreed, the ideal place to link them is from the image description page. It is likely to become unwieldy once there are a lot more sources, but we can deal with that when it happens. Having a list like this is helpful in the (relatively few) cases where a source file doesn't seem to have a corresponding image; one in particular is Image:USA CountiesSVG.zip, which is somewhat general-purpose and could be the basis for a variety of images, while not itself being very useful for illustration. I suspect there may be some designers (particularly in the area of map-making) who are seeking a particular kind of source file to base their illustrations on. Maybe one day that page will just become a list of "raw materials" from which to work, rather than collecting every Photoshop or SVG file we upload. I don't know if prompting uploaders for a source file is the best idea; most of the time, one will not be available, and it may confuse people who don't have one. -- Wapcaplet 16:19, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Uploading compressed *.gz
When I try uploading my gzip-compressed GIMP source files, I now get an Upload warning '".gz" is not a recommended image file format.' Is there any way around this? I am trying to replace an existing source file so don't really want to switch compression formats. Geoff/Gsl 23:08, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I get the exact same error uploading my .psd.tar.gz source for Image:Crossover_cable_wiring_diagram.png. Does anyone have a solution? User:Enigmatzu 03:30, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

title: Wikipedia talk:Image source files


text:
Talk:Aleksander Kwaśniewski

Language needs to be corrected
There's a lot of bad English in the text, especially in the section titled "Controversies", e.g. "Kwaśniewski declared that he has graduated university studies"; "President explained, that Ukrainians are simply hospitable and he didn't refuse them"; "Another case is Kwaśniewski's highly controversial grant of pardon was the Vogel case"; etc. Perhaps a job for the contributors. The Gnome 13:19, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Kwasniewski and the Pope
Thinking aloud - Given that Catholicism is an integral part of the Polish Society: -Would it be relevant to include more on his stance with the Church? -What was the Church’s response? -The public’s response? -How did this affect his term? -Did the Pope ever accept a visit from him?

I’m sure there is someone out there that has insight into this.--Patpecz 20:57, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

 * If the question is about en event, when Kwaśniewski laughing encouraged Marek Siwiec to kiss the soil after landing, what is described by some as "a parody of Pope", in short: there was no official Church response, only some bishops criticized it. The public's response was, that Marian Krzaklewski, who used this clip in his promo materials in presidental elections, lost anyway, and Kwaśniewski was elected in the first round. And yes, Kwaśniewski visited the Pope several times after that and their relations were quite cordial (the Pope indeed had a sense of humor...). Pibwl ←« 11:36, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Official Kwasniewski biography from the President site http://www.president.pl/pre/en_index.php3

Aleksander Kwasniewski - President of the Republic of Poland
Aleksander Kwasniewski was born on November 15th, 1954, in Bialogard, (formerly Koszalin Voivodship, presently West-Pomeranian Province). Wife Jolanta, maiden name Konty, daughter Aleksandra (born 1981).

In the years 1973-1977, Aleksander Kwasniewski read for transport economics (foreign trade) at the Gdansk University. An activist of the student movement up to 1982, having held, among other functions, chairmanship of the University Council of the Socialist Union of Polish Students (SZSP) from 1976 to 1977, vice-chairmanship of the Gdansk Voivodship Union from 1977 to 1979. A member of the SZSP supreme authorities from 1977 to 1982. From November 1981 to February 1984 - editor in chief of student weekly "ITD," next editor in chief of daily "Sztandar Mlodych" from 1984 to 1985. A co-founder of the first computer-science periodical in Poland "Bajtek" in 1985.

From 1985 to 1987, Minister for Youth Affairs in the Zbigniew Messner government, and then Chairman of the Committee for Youth and Physical Culture till June 1990. A member of the Mieczyslaw Rakowski government, then a cabinet minister and Chairman of the government Social-Political Committee from October 1988 to September 1989. A participant at the Round-Table negotiations, co-chairing with Tadeusz Mazowiecki and Romuald Sosnowski the task group for trade union pluralism. A member of the Polish United Workers' Party from 1977 to 1990. A co-founding member of the Social Democratic Party of the Republic of Poland from January to February 1990, and its first chairman till December 1995. One of the founding members of the Democratic Left Alliance in 1991. A sports activist in the Student Sports Union from 1975 to 1979 and the Polish Olympic Committee (PKOL). PKOL president from 1988 to 1991. Distinguished with the Golden Olympic Order of the International Olympic Committee in 1998 and the Golden Order of Merit of the International Amateur Athletic Federation in 1999, and in 2000 Order of Merit EOC (European Olympic Committee).

Running for the Sejm (lower house of Parliament) from the Warsaw constituency, he won the largest number of votes, 148,533 to be exact. Leader of the parliamentary caucus of the Democratic Left Alliance in the first and second term (1991-1995). A member of the Foreign Affairs Committee and chairman of the Constitutional Committee of the National Assembly from November 1993 to November 1995.

Aleksander Kwasniewski won the presidential elections for the first time in 1995 on the election campaign slogans: "Let's choose the future" and "Common Poland," collecting 51.7 percent of votes, against 48.3 percent cast on Lech Walesa. In a year 2000 he won again collecting 53,9% of votes in the first run. His election campaign slogan was: "The home of all - Poland". Sworn into office on December 23rd, 1995, as President of the Republic of Poland. On the same day, President Kwasniewski took an oath as Superior of the Armed Forces at the First Fighter Wing, "Warszawa", in Minsk Mazowiecki. On December 23rd, 2000 he took his office for the second term.

A co-author of the Constitution draft and a mover of the referendum campaign in favour of passing the Constitution of the Third Republic of Poland, which he signed into law on July 16th, 1997. In 1996, President Kwasniewski submitted the draft of a convention on fighting organised crime to the UN. Took an active part in the efforts to see Poland in NATO. Head of Poland's delegation at the Madrid and Washington summits in 1997 and 1999 respectively. On February 26th, 1999, he signed the instruments ratifying Poland's membership of NATO (during a joint ceremony with the President of the Czech Republic, Vaclav Havel). He also took active part in further enlargement of an Alliance supporting invitation for seven new states (NATO Summit 2002 in Prague) and the 'open door' policy. Following the September 11th 2001 events upon his initiative and within antiterrorist coalition there was an international conference organized in Warsaw with participation of leaders from Central, Eastern and South-Eastern Europe to strengthen regional activities in combating international terrorism. An advocate of regional cooperation in Central and Eastern Europe. Host of the meeting of the Presidents from the region at Lancut in 1996. An active participant at such meetings in Portoroz in 1997, Levoczy in 1998, Lvov in 1999. Jointly with Lithuania's President, the driving force behind the meeting "Coexistence of Nations and Good-Neighbourly Relations: the Guarantee of Security and Stability in Europe," held in Vilnius in 1997 and the follow-up conference "Baltic-Black Sea Cooperation: Towards the Integrated Europe of the 21st Century Free of Dividing Lines," held in Yalta in 1999. Author of the 'Riga Initiative' (2002) - a forum for cooperation of Central Europe states towards further enlargement of NATO and the European Union.

Aleksander Kwasniewski also launched the following initiatives aimed at reapprochement:

between Poland and Germany by co-creating, among other things, a programme of exchange for Polish and German youths "Jugendwerk" in 1986 (in the capacity of Minister for Youth Affairs), patronage over the construction of Collegium Polonicum at the Viadrina University in Slubice-Frankfurt on the Odra (inaugurated in October 1996), putting forth the problem of mutual return of works of national culture in December 1998, joint commemoration with the President of the Federal Republic of Germany of the 60th anniversary of the outbreak of World War II in September 1999 beetween Poland and Ukraine - Polish-Ukrainian "Declaration on Reconciliation" in May 1997, Polish-Ukrainian Self-Government Forum in June 1999, proposal to erect a monument to the victims of Jaworzno concentration camp (May 1998) and patronage over the reconstruction of the Cemetery of Polish Eaglets in Lvov and Kharkov between Poles and Jews - launching and patronizing i.a. the Auschwitz Programme, help initial the Auschwitz Declaration by the Polish side and a coalition of Jewish Organisations, setting in motion the process of restoring Polish citizenship to persons deprived of it on the strength of political decisions taken in 1968, as well as active participation in the work to regulate the state's attitude towards Jewish religious communities. Knight of the Order of the White Eagle

Decorated with the following highest orders:

Lithuania's Order of Vytautas the Great, 1st grade (1996) and the Order of Grand Lithuanian Duke Gedyminas, 1st grade; Great Britain's Knight Grand Cross of the Most Honourable Order of the Bath (March 1996) and the Knight Grand Cross of the Most Distinguished Order of Saint Michael and Saint George (October 1996): Italy's Grand Cross of the Order of Merit of the Italian Republic (1996); France's Grand Cross of the Order of the Legion of Honour (1996); Norway's Royal Order of Saint Olaf (1996); Greece's Grand Cross of the Order of the Saviour (1996): Latvia's Order of Three Stars (1997); Finland's Grand Cross of the Order of the White Rose of Finland with Collar (1997); Malaysia's Royal Order of Merit (1997); Ukraine's Order of Yaroslav the Wise, 1st class (1997); Portugal's Order of Infant Henry with Grand Ribbon (1997); Estonia's Grand Cross with the Ribbon of Terra Mariana (1998); Romania's Order of the Star of Romania with Ribbon (1999); Chile's Grand Chain of the Order of Merit (1999); Belgium's Grand Ribbon of the Order of Leopold (1999); Turkey's Order of the Republic (2000); Croatia's Great Order of King Tomislav with the Ribbon and Great Star (2001); Spain's Order of Catholic Isabelle with Chain (2001) Federal Republic of Brasil's National Order of Southern Cross (2002) Republic of Peru's Special Grand Cross of the Order of Merit (2002) Federal Republic of Germany's Grand Cross of Merit (2002) Japan's Grand Ribbon of the Great Order of Chrysanthemum Also decorated with the highest distinction of the Orthodox Church in Poland: The Order of Saint Magdalena, first degree with decorations (1998). Also honoured with television personality "Wiktor" prizes on 1993, 1995 and 2000.

Rewrite, reorder
Folks, the rephrase of his official bio just wasn't very good, so I reordered it and improved the text, which wasn't up to native-English standard. I think the article could still use quite a bit of work, and I'll add more detail later, such as the important details of EU membership, advocacy for Ukraine, the Kosovo and Iraq wars, the controversy surrounding his first election, etc. It would be great to have the picture of him and Wałęsa shaking hands at John Paul II's funderal, if copyright allows. Likewise, I put in some improvements on the page about Jolanta Kwasniewska, but it's still far from perfect. --ProhibitOnions 10:59, 2005 May 22 (UTC)

 * The Kwasniewski/Walesa pic is copyrighted, i uploaded it under fair use.--Witkacy 20:51, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I forgot that Mazowiecki was in the picture too, makes it even better! Thanks for that! --ProhibitOnions 23:47, 2005 May 22 (UTC)

Cut passage
I cut this passage, as he probably gives lots of lectures, until special notability can be established for this one:

Kwaśniewski spoke at The Catholic University of America in Washington, DC in April of 2006. The title of his speech was "The U.N. and its Role in Making the 21st Century an Era of Peace and Progress."

Biruitorul 00:55, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

"controversies" section removed
There was a section introduced by an anonip full of negative unsourced information that I removed per WP:BLP guidelines. I will be happy to have that reintroduced if it is properly sourced, but any reintroduction without sourcing will result in blocks for that editor. Syrthiss 15:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I included many links now, some are however in polish, but there is always at least one in english. - Anonip

 * Thanks very much for supplying the sources. I'm not familiar with several of those publications so I've asked some other experienced editors to take a look and determine if they meet the requirements of reliable sources.  I'm going to blank that section again and ask that you don't reintroduce it until I've had a chance to hear back.  If they are reliable sources I'll gladly reinstate the section, but for this kind of information per BLP we must be correct in our verification. Thanks for your understanding. Syrthiss 14:20, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

 * ok, i undestand, but how long does it take usually? - Anonip

 * I expect a day or two. The admin I asked said he is busy in real life at the moment, but I asked on the Poland-related topics message board. Syrthiss 21:16, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

Ok, based on this information that another wikipedian was able to drop on my talk page:

 * I come upon your message at WP:PWNB. I scanned quickly the text. Generally, the sources are quite reliable and/or well-established. This includes

 * Warsaw Voice, a journal for diplomats (many links in the text)
 * Gazeta Wyborcza, a major newspaper, slightly left-wing POV)
 * wp.pl a major polish portal reporting here Polish Press Agency depeche
 * Gazeta Polska now important weekly magazine (right-wing POV in opinions, but quite careful at the level of facts)
 * ] Newsweek equivalent, say
 * money.pl established finance-oriented portal; IMHO quite well balanced.
 * IPN, government agency (for historic issues, of course)
 * TV puls well-known private TV station, right wing option
 * radio zet a major radio station, left-wing option

I'm going to go reinsert the section. Thanks very much for bearing with me on this. Syrthiss 14:59, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Kwasniewski and SLD
Kwasniewski was never a leader of the Democratic Left Alliance. He was only a leader of its Parliamentary Club, but it's something completely different. I'm editing that information. 85.219.130.242 (talk) 14:24, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

School of International Journalism
The information, that he allegedly was sent in 1979 by the communist party to School of International Journalism at Moscow State Institute of International Relations and get diploma nr 1792, is a bogus, repeated by some extreme rightist pages, with no reliable sources. This "diploma nr 1792" itself was published in post-communist NIE nr 13/1997 as a joke for All Fools Day ([http://www.nie.com.pl/art9618.htm article in NIE - in Polish). Pibwl ←« 12:18, 9 April 2008 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Walesa Kwas.jpg
The image Image:Walesa Kwas.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --09:49, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

C-class
At present date, this article does not classify for a B-class. First obvious fail: not enough inline citations. Review for WP:POLAND, --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 05:07, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Spiritual belief
Is it really that important to mention his personal spiritual belief (the fact that he's atheist) already in the introduction? It is already mentioned in the infobox and later, I think it's not that relevant to put it even in the intro. Then why not mentioning his favourite sport, his favourite color and his preferred sex position??--Desyman44 (talk) 12:55, 16 February 2011 (UTC)

Parents and early life
Mr. Kwasniewski is a public figure, a former president of Poland. Still, it is impossible to find well-sourced information about his background. We do not know anything about his parents, and his biography begins when he was 25 or so. Interesting. Tymek (talk) 04:45, 30 August 2013 (UTC)

Request for Comments
There is an RfC on the question of using "Religion: None" vs. "Religion: None (atheist)" in the infobox on this and other similar pages.

The RfC is at Template talk:Infobox person.

Please help us determine consensus on this issue. --Guy Macon (talk) 22:36, 24 April 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060902091957/http://www.law.nyu.edu/eecr/vol6num4/constitutionwatch/poland.html to http://www1.law.nyu.edu/eecr/vol6num4/constitutionwatch/poland.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070317171437/http://www.iwp.edu/news/newsID.315/news_detail.asp to http://www.iwp.edu/news/newsID.315/news_detail.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070317171437/http://www.iwp.edu/news/newsID.315/news_detail.asp to http://www.iwp.edu/news/newsID.315/news_detail.asp
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140202143035/http://diplomats.pl/en/component/content/article/473.html to http://diplomats.pl/en/component/content/article/473.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140514022640/http://burisma.com/board-of-directors/ to http://burisma.com/board-of-directors/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20051029122834/http://www.prezydent.pl/x.node?id=3666 to http://www.prezydent.pl/x.node?id=3666

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Looks like he was the second president of Poland
Hi, It looks like he was the second president of Poland according to the polish Wikipedia article. You other Wikipedia contributors maybe want to check that and fix the english language article if the information is wrong. --Jamesjohnson354 (talk) 00:22, 14 August 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Aleksander Kwaśniewski


text:
Category talk:Soviet dissidents

Untitled
Technically, figures such as Trotsky should be also included here. Frankly, I don't feel like it. ←Humus sapiens←Talk 23:19, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Any particular reason that Vladimir Vysotsky isn't in this category? Just curious. 128.163.112.121 19:06, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

title: Category talk:Soviet dissidents


text:
Duncan Ferguson

Duncan Cowan Ferguson (born 27 December 1971) is a Scottish football coach and former player who is the manager of Scottish League One club Inverness Caledonian Thistle.

He began his career at Dundee United in 1990, and moved to Rangers in 1993 for what was then a British transfer record fee. He spent the remainder of his career in England, moving to Everton in 1994 before a stint with Newcastle United between 1998 and 2000, after which he returned to Everton, where he retired in 2006.

During his career, Ferguson won the FA Cup with Everton in 1995. He was capped for Scotland seven times, playing at UEFA Euro 1992, but made himself unavailable for selection for the national team from 1997 due to a dispute with the Scottish Football Association (SFA). He has scored more goals than any other Scottish player in England's Premier League since its creation in 1992.

Ferguson's aggressive style of play resulted in a career total of nine red cards, as well as a three-month prison sentence following an on-field assault of Raith Rovers' John McStay in 1994. Eight of those red cards were in the English Premier League, where he holds the joint record for dismissals alongside Patrick Vieira and Richard Dunne. He is known by the nicknames "Big Dunc" and "Duncan Disorderly".

Ferguson was promoted to the first-team coaching staff at Everton in 2014. Following the dismissal of Everton manager Marco Silva in December 2019, he was named as the team's caretaker manager until Silva's replacement Carlo Ancelotti was appointed manager a few weeks later, at which point Ferguson was made assistant manager. Ferguson left Everton after a second stint as caretaker manager in 2022. After a brief spell as Forest Green Rovers manager, he was appointed manager of Inverness Caledonian Thistle in September 2023.

Dundee United
Born in Stirling, Ferguson played for the juvenile side Carse Thistle. Dundee United signed him as a schoolboy, and he went on to win the BP Youth Cup in 1990. Later that year, on 10 November, Ferguson made his professional debut for them against Rangers at Ibrox Stadium. His first goal was an extra-time winner against East Fife in the Scottish Cup on 29 January 1991.

The following season saw him become a first-team regular. With 41 appearances and 16 goals, he became the club's top scorer. His good form continued in 1992–93 with 33 appearances and 15 goals. The form he displayed at Dundee United also saw him win a call-up to the Scotland national team.

Rangers
Ferguson moved to Rangers in 1993 for a transfer fee of £4 million, which set a new British record. During a match with Raith Rovers in April 1994, Ferguson headbutted the visitors' John McStay in the south-west corner of the Ibrox pitch. Referee Kenny Clark did not see the incident, but Ferguson was subsequently charged and found guilty of assault. As it was his third conviction for assault, he received a three-month prison sentence in October 1995. The SFA banned Ferguson for 12 matches before the court case was heard.

Ferguson scored a last-minute winner against Motherwell, from a Brian Laudrup pass, in the first game of the season. Four days later, he scored a hat-trick in a 6–1 win over Arbroath.

Of Ferguson's time at Rangers, one of his strike partners Mark Hateley said: "Duncan was a really good player, but I think he came to Rangers a couple of years too early. Walter Smith wanted me to take him under my wing. He was a boisterous young lad who wanted to play all the time. It was a period in his career where he'd gone from being a big fish in a small pond to being a small fish in the big pond at Rangers. He probably found that a bit difficult."

Everton
In October 1994, Everton were struggling under the management of Mike Walker and looking for options to reinvigorate their faltering season. The solution enacted was to take two Rangers players on a loan deal, Ian Durrant for one month and Ferguson for three. Ferguson's move to Everton was later made permanent by Walker's successor Joe Royle, and Ferguson played a key role in saving Everton from relegation, and also helping them win the 1994–95 FA Cup. The subsequent 1995–96 season was less successful for Ferguson. A persistent hernia problem caused him to be unavailable for large amounts of time, as did his prison sentence during the first half of the season.

On 28 December 1997, Ferguson scored a hat-trick against Bolton Wanderers in a 3–2 victory, the first time that a trio of headers had been scored in the Premier League. Everton finished the season surviving relegation only on goal difference.

Ferguson was sold to Newcastle United for a fee of £8 million in November 1998. The deal was done to sell Ferguson by the Everton chairman, Peter Johnson, without the knowledge of Walter Smith. Ferguson wrote a two-page goodbye letter in the club magazine to fans, stating his sadness at leaving and that he would never forget them.

Newcastle United
After bringing Ferguson to Newcastle, manager Ruud Gullit was rewarded when Ferguson scored twice on his debut against Wimbledon in the Premier League. The final result was a 3–1 victory to Newcastle. At the start of 1999, Ferguson suffered a hernia injury, meaning that he played only seven times in the 1998–99 season. He made his comeback on 11 April, coming on as a substitute in a 2–0 extra-time FA Cup semi-final win over Tottenham Hotspur, and did the same in the 1999 FA Cup Final, which Newcastle lost to Manchester United.

In 1999–2000, Ferguson scored in three rounds of the FA Cup as Newcastle beat Tottenham 6–1, Sheffield United 4–1 and Tranmere Rovers 3–2, before a semi-final elimination by Chelsea. He scored six league goals, including two in a 5–0 home win over Southampton on 16 January 2000.

Return to Everton
On 17 August 2000, Ferguson moved back to Everton for a fee of £3.75 million. The transfer had previously been close to collapse as he sought a £1 million "loyalty payment" from Newcastle for not personally asking for a transfer; he had made the same amount of money from Everton when he transferred in 1998 on the same basis. Two days after signing, he played his first game in a 2–0 loss at Leeds United, coming on for Stephen Hughes after 56 minutes. On 23 August, on his return to Goodison Park, he scored twice in a 3–0 win over Charlton Athletic after coming on for Mark Hughes in the 67th minute.

On 1 April 2002, Ferguson was sent off after 20 minutes for elbowing Bolton Wanderers' Kostas Konstantinidis in an off-the-ball incident in a 3–1 win for a struggling Everton side.

In August 2003, Jamie Jackson of The Guardian called Ferguson "arguably the biggest waste of money of all", citing his high transfer fees and wages compared to his injury record and age. By that point, he had scored 12 times in 41 games in three years at Everton, while earning over £5 million in salary. His 192 minutes of play in 2002–03 as a goalless substitute cost the club £9,000 per minute.

Ferguson was accused of racial abuse by Fulham's Luís Boa Morte after an FA Cup fourth round match in January 2004. The accusation was dismissed by the Football Association, who found insufficient evidence. On 28 December that year, Ferguson came on for Marcus Bent in the 74th minute of Everton's 2–0 loss at Charlton, and within ten minutes he was sent off for an elbow on Hermann Hreiðarsson.

During the 2005–06 season, Ferguson was sent off against Wigan Athletic for violent conduct. His confrontation with Paul Scharner and subsequent fracas with Pascal Chimbonda resulted in a seven-match ban and his eighth Premier League red card, equalling Patrick Vieira's record. On 7 May 2006, against West Bromwich Albion at Goodison Park, Ferguson was named captain in the game that marked the end of his Everton career. His 90th-minute penalty kick was saved by Tomasz Kuszczak, but he subsequently scored from the rebound, netting his final goal for the club. Ferguson was not given a new Everton deal and retired, moving his family to Mallorca and spurning advances from a number of clubs.

Ferguson played for Everton in a testimonial match in his honour on 2 August 2015 against Villarreal.

International career
Ferguson made his first full international appearance for Scotland on 17 May 1992, in a 1–0 win over the United States in Denver. He was selected for UEFA Euro 1992 in Sweden, making one substitute appearance against reigning champions the Netherlands on 12 June. He withdrew from UEFA Euro 1996 in England due to surgery on a recurring hernia. He made seven Scotland appearances in all, with his last appearance coming in February 1997.

Ferguson refused international selection after 1997, partly in protest against his treatment by the SFA after his conviction for assault on John McStay and in particular the imposition of a 12-game ban on top of his three-month prison sentence. Ferguson believed that second punishment violated the principle of double jeopardy. Speaking in February 2023, Ferguson said that not playing more for Scotland was the "biggest regret in my career". He also revealed that Scotland managers had repeatedly asked him to come out of retirement, with the last request coming from Walter Smith in 2005. Ferguson blamed his own "pig-headedness" for not accepting those invitations.

Everton
Having spent five years in Mallorca following his retirement from playing, Ferguson contacted his former manager at Everton, David Moyes. Ferguson asked if he could work with the Everton academy students at Finch Farm.

Initially Ferguson was a voluntary worker at the academy, working for Alan Irvine, a former mentor of his from his playing career. Although Ferguson remains disappointed with the Scottish FA for what he sees as a lack of support following his sentencing in 1995, he enrolled on a nine-day Scottish FA organised coaching course in Largs, Scotland to earn a UEFA B-Licence. In May 2012, he returned to Largs to achieve a UEFA A licence and in January 2013 he enrolled on a further course for the UEFA Pro Licence. In February 2014 Ferguson was promoted to the first-team coaching staff at Everton. His first game in the role was a home game against West Ham United on 1 March 2014.

Following the dismissal of manager Marco Silva on 5 December 2019, Ferguson was named as caretaker manager of Everton. In his first game in charge two days later, Everton beat Chelsea 3–1 to lift themselves out of the relegation zone. Following the appointment of Carlo Ancelotti as the new manager later that month, Ferguson was made assistant manager, a role he retained under Rafael Benítez who joined the club following Ancelotti's departure to Real Madrid in June 2021.

On 18 January 2022, Ferguson was again appointed caretaker manager following the sacking of Benítez. He oversaw one game as caretaker, a 1–0 home loss to Aston Villa, before Frank Lampard was appointed as the new manager. Ferguson remained at the club for the rest of the season as a first-team coach, before announcing his departure from the club in July 2022.

Forest Green Rovers
On 26 January 2023, Ferguson was appointed head coach of League One side Forest Green Rovers, his first managerial role of his career.

Upon his appointment, Ferguson stated; "I'm really delighted to join FGR for the next step of my career, and I plan to be here for a while. We have a bit of a fight on our hands to stay up in League One and I am ready for the challenge." Dale Vince, Chairman of the club, commented: "We're all excited to welcome Duncan, he is someone I have admired from afar for a while. It's just fantastic to have the opportunity to work with him in this next phase of our journey toward the Championship." Ferguson did not win a game as manager until 26 March when Forest Green beat second-placed Sheffield Wednesday 1–0. Forest Green were relegated to League Two on 15 April after a 5–1 home defeat to Barnsley. With four games remaining in the season, they became the first team in any EFL league to be relegated in the 2022–23 season. He left the club on 4 July 2023. During his 18 games in charge, Forest Green Rovers won only a single game.

Inverness Caledonian Thistle
Ferguson was appointed manager of Scottish Championship club Inverness Caledonian Thistle on 26 September 2023. Returning to Scottish football after an absence of 29 years, his first game as manager of Inverness Caledonian Thistle was on 30 September, a 3–2 away win against Arbroath.

Personal life
Ferguson's son Cameron is also a professional footballer, who is currently playing for Forfar Athletic on loan from Newcastle United. He has represented Scotland at Youth level.

Burglary attempts at his homes
In 2001, two burglars broke into Ferguson's home in Rufford, Lancashire. Ferguson confronted them and was able to detain one of them, who subsequently spent three days in hospital. The second man managed to flee but was eventually caught. Both men were sentenced to 15 months' imprisonment for their actions.

In January 2003, Ferguson caught another burglar at his home in Formby, Merseyside; the burglar attacked Ferguson, who retaliated. The burglar was hospitalised and later alleged that Ferguson had assaulted him, but this was dismissed by police.

Convictions for physical altercations
Ferguson has had four convictions for assault – two arising from taxi rank scuffles, one an altercation with a fisherman in an Anstruther pub, and one for his on-field headbutt on Raith Rovers defender John McStay in 1994 while playing for Rangers, which resulted in a rare conviction for an on-the-field incident.

The first incident led to a £100 fine for headbutting a policeman and a £25 fine for a Breach of the Peace, while the second resulted in a £200 fine for punching and kicking a supporter on crutches. He was sentenced to a year's probation for the third offence. For the 1994 on-the-field headbutting, he received and served a three-month jail term for assault. Ferguson's troubles with the law and his imprisonment inspired Finnish composer Osmo Tapio Räihälä to write a symphonic poem as a "musical portrait" of Ferguson, titled Barlinnie Nine.

Campaigning
In 2009 Ferguson pledged his support to the "Keep Everton in Our City" campaign, saying:

During my time at Everton, Goodison Park came to feel like a second home, with the supporters of the club, and the people of the city becoming a second family to me. If you were to take Everton out of the city, I firmly believe the club could no longer call itself the "People's Club" and I give my whole-hearted support to the campaign to keep Everton in the city.

Honours
Dundee United
 * Scottish Cup runner-up: 1990–91

Rangers
 * Scottish Premier Division: 1993–94
 * Scottish Cup runner-up: 1993–94

Everton
 * FA Cup: 1994–95

Newcastle United
 * FA Cup runner-up: 1998–99

Individual
 * Premier League Player of the Month: February 1995

title: Duncan Ferguson


text:
Thomas Gravesen

Thomas Gravesen (born 11 March 1976) is a Danish former professional footballer who played as a midfielder.

Gravesen played as a professional in Denmark, Germany, England, Spain and Scotland for Vejle Boldklub, Hamburger SV, Everton, Real Madrid and Celtic.

For the Denmark national team, Gravesen was capped 66 times and scored five goals, from his debut in August 1998 until he ended his national team career in September 2006. He represented Denmark at the international Euro 2000, 2002 World Cup and Euro 2004 tournaments.

He is the older brother of footballer Peter Gravesen.

Vejle Boldklub
Born in Vejle, Gravesen began his career in 1995 with hometown club Vejle Boldklub (VB) in the Danish Superliga, alongside a handful of youths making it through the VB youth scheme, including good friend Kaspar Dalgas. At VB he played as sweeper and defensive midfielder, and after he won silver medals in the 1996–97 Superliga season he moved to German team Hamburger SV in 1997.

Gravesen made a total of 94 appearances and six goals in three years with HSV.

Everton
Following the Euro 2000 tournament, Gravesen went to English club Everton and quickly became a favourite amongst the fans.

Gravesen played a key role in Everton's rise toward the top of the 2004–05 Premier League table. With his contract due to expire in the summer of 2005, which would enable him to leave on a free transfer, Everton sold Gravesen to Real Madrid in January 2005 for a surprisingly low fee of £2.5 million.

Real Madrid
Gravesen was signed to fill a hole in Madrid's defensive midfield, a position somewhat different from his role at Everton. He found immediate playing success at Real Madrid, scoring in one of his first games, a 4–0 win against Espanyol. However, Gravesen would eventually find himself benched. Following public outcry over his tough style of play and the sacking of Real coach Vanderlei Luxemburgo and sporting director Arrigo Sacchi, who were in charge of acquiring Gravesen, he looked ready to leave Real Madrid in the winter transfer window of 2006. However, new coach López Caro would revive Gravesen's career at Real, picking him regularly, using him in the holding role in the new 4–1–4–1 formation Real adopted. Towards the end of the season, Gravesen once again found himself out of the team, and in May 2006 a number of clubs were reported to be interested in him.

In August 2006, a scuffle erupted at a Real Madrid training session following a hard tackle by Gravesen on teammate Robinho. Fabio Capello, the former Real Madrid manager, said about Gravesen: "The way he is, we won't have problems with him. He's just a little bit peculiar. I don't mess with him, he works well tactically. His behaviour is like this, and I don't like it, everything has to be done like he wants it to be done". Gravesen looked likely to leave Real Madrid before the start of the 2006–07 season, with his agent John Sivebæk confirming that a number of clubs – including Newcastle United in England and Scottish club Celtic – were interested in signing the midfielder.

Celtic
On 28 August 2006, Gravesen attended Celtic Park in Glasgow for a medical examination and, on 30 August, signed a three-year deal (with the option of a fourth) with the club, for a speculated fee of around £2 million. There was a period of uncertainty as to whether Gravesen would sign for Celtic after false rumours arose of a failed medical and of an eleventh-hour bid by Newcastle.

He scored his first goal for Celtic against arch rivals Rangers on 23 September 2006. He then went on to score the first hat-trick of his professional career when Celtic won 3–1 against St Mirren on 12 November. After a promising start to his Celtic career, Gravesen was replaced in the starting line-up by Dutch midfielder Evander Sno. In April 2007, Celtic manager Gordon Strachan denied rumours that Gravesen would leave the club to play for English club Sunderland, but in May 2007 he declared his disappointment that Gravesen did not work harder to recapture his place in the starting line-up.

On 18 August 2008, Celtic and Gravesen parted company.

Loan to Everton
Gravesen re-signed for Everton on a season-long loan from Celtic on 29 August 2007. On his first game back for Everton, as a second-half substitute in the 2–1 win at Bolton Wanderers, he took the corner that Joleon Lescott headed the winner from. In his first European appearance of the season, in Everton's 3–1 victory over Larissa at Goodison Park in the UEFA Cup group stage, Gravesen set up Everton's third goal, scored by Victor Anichebe. However, Gravesen failed to make as big an impact as many Everton fans had hoped. A rare highlight was scoring a penalty in the shootout following the UEFA Cup match against Fiorentina, although Everton would go on to lose the shootout when Phil Jagielka missed the crucial spot-kick. After the last game of the 2007–08 season, manager David Moyes confirmed that Gravesen's contract would not be renewed and he would be returning to Celtic.

Retirement
On 27 January 2009, Gravesen announced his retirement from professional football after he failed to find a new club after being released by Celtic. On 12 September 2009, he stated in an interview with FourFourTwo that he had been approached by a number of clubs about a possible return to football, but nothing came of these approaches.

It was reported in December 2013 that Gravesen had been successful with investments and was living in Las Vegas.

International career
Gravesen debuted for the Danish national team in a 0–1 friendly match loss to the Czech Republic on 19 August 1998. Gravesen was selected to play for Denmark at the 2000 European Championship (Euro 2000) by coach Bo Johansson, despite concern from Johansson that he was not "psychologically stable" enough.

While at Everton, new Danish national team coach Morten Olsen fully supported Gravesen and made him one of his pivotal players in the 2002 World Cup and Euro 2004 campaigns. His display in the 2002 World Cup qualifying game with Iceland, where Gravesen scored two goals in a 6–0 win, was so impressive that American boxer Mike Tyson asked for his shirt and wore it throughout his stay in Denmark. He played all four of Denmark's matches at the 2002 World Cup, though Gravesen and his partner in the Danish midfield duo, Stig Tøfting, justified their pit bull reputations when they ganged up to play a prank on teammate Jesper Grønkjær at a World Cup training session.

He missed the first group match at Euro 2004 as he was suspended due to a sending off in the last qualifying match before the tournament but he played the remaining three games before Denmark were eliminated.

On 15 September 2006, Gravesen announced his decision to end his international career, deciding now to focus his efforts solely on Celtic.

International

 * Scores and results list Denmark's goal tally first, score column indicates score after each Gravesen goal.

Honours
Celtic
 * Scottish Premier League: 2006–07
 * Scottish Cup: 2006–07

title: Thomas Gravesen


text:
Talk:Noctis (video game)

POV
This is pretty non-POV. I might have a chance to work on it in a while. - GregoryWeir 23:22, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Indeed it is. While I love the game, I see how this article does not suit wikipedia. Let me see what I can do. (And sorry, Noctis fans. See it like this, now you won't have to do this cruel thing...)

Merges
I've redirected Stardrifter and Felysian to this page per Wikipedia is not a game guide and the guideline WP:FICT. Pascal.Tesson 01:24, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Expansion
The current version of this page focuses on the history of Noctis, rather than highlighting its uniqueness. This article really should be expanded to include this. I would do it but I'm not an expert on Noctis (merely a casual player). 76.18.70.123 23:17, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

 * To clarify, this article needs more information about what Noctis is. The information on what Noctis was and will be is useful, but currently dominates the article. In additon, the GUIDE is mentioned several times throughout the article, and most of those references point the reader elsewhere within the article. There should be a section on the GUIDE to provide a clear and central description of what the GUIDE is for, incorporating the already-existing information about the community of explorers. 76.18.70.123 16:51, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Effective dates of release and beginning of development.
The article as of April 30 states the game was released in 2002. In fact, the game first appeared on my old homestead at GeoCities/SiliconValley/Platform/1628, which can be seen through the Internet Archive's Wayback Machine as of April 25, 2000: oldest Noctis homepage, list of archived versions with dates. Personally, I was remembering the game's "release date", or more simply when I decided to make the program downloadable from that site, to be somewhere in 1999, but after all these years, I might as well be remembering wrong. At this point I'd say the best thing should be using the archived page's date, and claim it was released on April 25, 2000.

Out of curiosity, I ran a search through my old files I had on backup, and rather safely determined the program must have existed in some early, unreleased version, since at least May 31, 1997. I have taken a screenshot of Windows' explorer showing the relevant files with their "last changed" timestamps; being an (albeit heavily cropped) screenshot of non-free software, I couldn't upload it to the commons and so I'm currently keeping it into a personal folder of my own site: see here for the screenshot. The most relevant timestamp is that of the "alphabet.ncc" file appearing there; that file held a sequence of vector graphics coordinates determining the rendering of letters, numbers and symbols on the in-game's display screen (the display which was built into the front window of the stardrifter). In later versions, a different raster font was used in place of those simple letters to improve the display's readability; however, the file was never deleted from my archived backup, and still bears the date of last change. I remember for sure that when the game was using the "alphabet.ncc" file, it was in its very early stages of development. Alessandro Ghignola (talk) 18:47, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Disambiguation page
—Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.83.21.145 (talk) 00:00, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Version history
Is there a version history online anywhere? I assume the early versions (1996) were for DOS and later ones Windows, or does it still run under DOS? (The Mobygames entry has it as a DOS game). 2fort5r (talk) 18:02, 22 September 2009 (UTC)

Download link is dead.
The AnywhereBB link is dead. Can someone reupload somewhere else? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.30.10.206 (talk) 01:25, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 1 one external link on Noctis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Platform/1628/noctis.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at ).

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 10:36, 2 July 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Noctis (video game)


text:
Talk:The Eagle's Conquest

Untitled
"This book has been compared to Bernard Cornwell's book Sharpe." - who said this? And how can a book about Rome be compared to a book about the Napoleonic Wars? RickK 23:23, Jul 21, 2004 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:SimonScarrow TheEaglesConquest.jpg
Image:SimonScarrow TheEaglesConquest.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 11:24, 6 June 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:The Eagle's Conquest


text:
St Catherine's Court

St Catherine's Court is a manor house in a secluded valley north of Bath, Somerset, England. It is a Grade I listed property. The gardens are Grade II* listed on the Register of Historic Parks and Gardens of special historic interest in England.

The original house was a priory grange for the monks of Bath Abbey adjacent to the Church of St Catherine. At the Dissolution of the Monasteries, the manor was granted to John Malte and passed down to the courtier John Harington. It was bought in 1591 by John Blanchard and housed his descendants for generations, but the property fell into disrepair. In the 19th century, the house was bought by Colonel Joseph Holden Strutt who renovated it, with the work being continued by his sons. In 1984, actress Jane Seymour bought the house and carried out further renovation. During her ownership, the property was used as a recording studio and party venue, which caused complaints among the neighbours. It has since been further extended and is now rented out as a wedding venue.

The fabric of the building has changed over the centuries with a two-storey porch being added in 1610. Further extensions were added in the early 19th century, and the orangery and library were added in the early 20th century. In the 21st century, another addition including a swimming pool was added. The house is surrounded by 4 ha of landscaped grounds with terraces joined by flights of steps. The barn within the grounds is from the 13th to 15th centuries.

History
The manor of St Catherine belonged to Prior Cantlow of Bath Abbey in medieval times. It takes its name from the Church of St Catherine beside the manor house. When the house was not occupied by the monks, it was leased. In 1536, the lease was to Thomas Llewellyn, who remained as the tenant after the Dissolution of the Monasteries. Henry VIII granted the manor to his tailor, John Malte, in 1546. Part of the condition of the gift was that he adopt the king's illegitimate daughter Ethelreda Malte. Ethelreda inherited the house and married John Harington. After Ethelreda's death in 1551, Harrington married again. His son from this marriage was another John Harington who grew up and became a courtier of Elizabeth I and invented the first flush toilet. He spent most of his time at his principle seat at nearby Kelston and, in 1591, sold St Catherine's Court to John Blanchard. His son, William Blanchard, remodelled the house. His initials appear in the plasterwork frieze of a bedroom. The Blanchard family lived at the court for several generations. In 1610, the porch was added and a terraced garden laid out. The house passed by marriage to the Parry family but was not maintained, and the fabric of the building was declining by the 18th century, when half of the building was used by a tenant farmer.

The house was bought by Colonel Joseph Holden Strutt, a British soldier and long-standing Member of Parliament. He renovated the house and neighbouring church. He extended the house before his death in 1845. His youngest daughter Charlotte Olivia inherited the house and lived there with her husband, the Reverend Robert Drummond, until her death in 1897. In 1912, it was inherited by Richard Strutt, the youngest son of the second Baron Rayleigh. Richard Strutt added an orangery and built the library based on designs by Charles Bateman. In addition, he joined the ruined chapel near the gate to the rest of the house. The house was then inherited by his son, John Strutt.

In 1984, actress Jane Seymour bought the house with her then husband David Flynn for £350,000. After spending £3 million on refurbishments, they undertook renovation of the house. They brought purchased furniture from Littlecote House, owned by Sir Seton Wills, as he was selling his house and there was little furniture at St Catherine's. Seymour spent summers at the house. After her divorce from Flynn and marriage to American film producer James Keach, Seymour rented out the manor as a film set, recording studio and latterly country house estate/hotel for corporate events and weddings. The English band The Cure recorded their album Wild Mood Swings there in 1994 and 1995. The band came back in the autumn of 1998 to record most of their 2000 album Bloodflowers. Radiohead recorded most of their 1997 album OK Computer there. New Order also recorded part of their 2005 album Waiting for the Sirens' Call and the unreleased 2013 track Lost Sirens at St Catherine's Court. The property was also rented by Robbie Williams, as seen in the first episode of MTV Cribs. In May 2007, Seymour was granted a 24-hour alcohol and entertainment licence under new UK regulations, by Bath and North East Somerset council. Neighbours complained that the access lane was too narrow and the noise excessive. Seymour won the court battle, but sold the house in November 2007 to an unknown buyer. In 2009, a planning application for a two-storey extension, including a swimming pool was submitted to the local council. This was on the site of a previous orchard from which the trees were transplanted. The house is now available for catered rental and weddings.

Architecture
The oldest part of the house, the north front, was built in the Elizabethan era but incorporates parts of the earlier priory grange on the site. The front has sloping gables which reduce the load on the walls beneath them. The porch which was added in 1610 has tuscan columns supporting a balustrade with a statue of "Bungey", a favourite spaniel of John Harrington. It leads into a passage and the "oak room" which has wooden panelling with a moulded ceiling and 17th century fireplace. Similar features can be found in the hall and dining room. The ceiling of the library is an imitation of that at Audley End House, while the woodwork is mostly Jacobean. The staircase to the bedrooms incorporates the base of a tree trunk growing under the house.

The 4 ha gardens and grounds and laid out in terraces and include a paved court with an octagonal pool and separate areas enclosed by clipped yew hedges. More recent landscaping to the south of the house is in an Italianate style with pergolas. The barn within the grounds was probably built between the 13th and 15th centuries. In 2008 proposals were submitted to turn the barn into offices and a workshop.

Many of the walls and structures within the gardens, such as the central flight of steps, were built in the late 17th century. The gatepiers and flanking walls north east of the house were added in the mid 19th century. The gardens are Grade II* listed on the Register of Historic Parks and Gardens of special historic interest in England.

title: St Catherine's Court