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Talk:Loki

WTH?!
Um...  what happened to Loki being Odin's son? That is true in the movie Son of the Mask, was in this article (from non-movie sources, of course) when I first read it around two years ago (complete rewrite since then), and is known by the majority of people I talk to who have heard of Loki (most of whom have not seen Son of the Mask) as well as in 2 novels I have read (I forget the names because I do not own the books).

This article, although highly encyclopedic in it's form of prose, is a very poor article. Gods of any tradition (except for modern monotheism) have all kinds of legends, myths, and tales surrounding them. A 3-or-4-page line-by-line recount of Loki's conversation when he incites riot in just one poem, for example, is not only highly unnecessary but also highly annoying. A simple paragraph such as, ~"After a whole bunch of events and tales which are mentioned prior to this paragraph], the poem [name of poem] says that Loki came to a dinner [wasn't invited blah blah] and started insulting every god he could think of in order to purposely cause chaos. As a result of this, according o the poem, he was bound[...].  However, this poem mentions many recounted tales during the argument (such as when Loki says "[caught whoever doing whatever]") where the tale mentioned is not actually recounted by any source we know of."~  It is probably rare to say an encyclopedic entry is too long, but this article is way too long...   or perhaps just that so much of what is written is extremely overly specific and should not be written there. For example an article about the movie The Matrix would not recount the entire script!

 * Well, we're not dealing with films / novels in the article. If you check the kenningar in Skaldskaparmal c.16, you will find a lot of information in the answer to "What is Loki to be called?", including "son of Farbauti and Laufeyja (...) blood-friend and father-brother of the aesir, Odin's fellow in seat and journey" etc. And in Gylfaginning c.33 you'll find the same more or less. I personally can't share your criticism about this article. Trigaranus (talk) 12:31, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

 * yes that is right, movies aren't always right, if you look up other websites and researched it more you would find out that Loki and odin had a strange sort of relationship and they are in a blood-brotherhood. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.179.24.118 (talk) 07:34, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

I named my puppy Loki, and many people ask me does he live up to his name? I ask them what they mean, and most people say "you know, the Norse God of Mischeif" I say, yes!! he is very mischevious.2601:9:3000:158:E018:7657:AE2D:6CF6 (talk) 21:28, 2 January 2014 (UTC)

Utgårda-Loke
I finished the paragraph on Utgårda-Loke (Or Útgarða-Loki, in old norse. Gylfaginning, 2.2.1) from memory. Better than nothing, but still needs expansion and references. 130.239.140.196 (talk) 15:29, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

loki god of fire
does it say that loki is a god of fire? it should —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.240.128.129 (talk) 16:48, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Source? 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 15:03, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yep, no indications of that. Some traditional etymologies tried to link his name with German "Lohe" (=flame), but as far as I know, that's about that. Trigaranus (talk) 15:30, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * There are actually several reasons to conclude that Loki had an association with fire. I'll add a section about it in a 'theories' section later. Right now the attestations are very much incomplete, so we haven't gotten that far yet. bloodofox: (talk) 18:13, 17 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Any reason besides wagners Mr. Flameyhair god of fire portrayal? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.91.109.250 (talk) 17:43, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, for instance, there's the hearthstone, the wrestling of fire personified (Logi) in Gylfaginning, Loki's threat of death by fire in Lokasenna, association with heat in later Scandinavian folklore, and likely a lot more I can't pull off the top of my head. bloodofox: (talk) 19:59, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

In terms of alternate etymology I have also read that a modern Swedish (or such nordic language?) word for a spider is awfully close to Loki/Loke; being that he spawned the eight legged horse of Odin it makes sense that Loki may be a name for a "spider" type personification. 71.34.67.135 (talk) 05:52, 11 December 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe it was scholar Anne Holtsmark who proposed this. There's an article somewhere that handles many theories involving Loki (including Holtsmark's theories), and we would be well served to build a "theories" using said article. bloodofox: (talk) 19:59, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Hmmm, after some search, I found the dialectal or archaic Swedish word "locke".  Other modern common Scandinavian words include spindel/spindler (related to "spider" and "spin"), "edderkop"/"edderkopp" (poison/pus/eitr-cup) and Icelandic "kónguló" (weaver?). 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 22:41, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Loki is the god of fire, just as Odin is the god of earth, and hoenir the god of air. Helblindi and Býleistr are kennings for Odin and Hoenir respectively. They represents three elements, that tamed the element of water/ice that is Ymir in the norse cosmological origin story. The Ragnarrök ending in a worldwide flood, the release of the element of water/Ymir. Ideas of Loki being a spider is nonsense, if he was a spider why doesn't he transform himself to a spider? It is also interesting that Odin doesn't know Loki is the conspirator that will bring forth the Ragnarrök. He is told that Loki will be bound and suffer, but never that he is the instrumental figure of Ragnarrök. This might be correlated to Odin transfering Mimir (wisdom and forsight) to the Vanir, thus losing complete understanding of the future events. 83.252.205.53 (talk) 13:31, 2 December 2023 (UTC)

 * They do not represent three elements, where do you get that from? Very few Norse gods have direkt links to any "element" and Loki is not one of them. Instead of arguing, ima just link to an actual expert on the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icUElWDmFW8&t=502s Blockhaj (talk) 11:33, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

In Popular Culture
Should there be a bit on Loki's pop portrayal? Neil Gaiman, "The Mask" and others. Out of Norse myth he's a popular character. On the other hand, the "In popular Culture" sections are a bit silly sometimes. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.166.132.200 (talk) 10:40, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

 * If "popular culture" was limited to things where the subject played a substantial part, then they'd be fine. The problem is they quickly degenerate to things like "Loki was mentioned in one line of a song by this little-known band from Bakersfield that I happen to like that has managed to sell 10 albums".Ekwos (talk) 20:47, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Agree, I fully expected the 90s film "The Mask" starring Jim Carrey to be here. More than just a nebulous mention in a song lyric, he's an integral part of the story, this old relic washes ashore and is deemed to be related to old Norse culture, where "Loki" is deemed "the Night God of Mischief" it is after this point Stanley discovers the mask only works at night. Also, in Norse folklore, Loki is often referred to as a,"shape shifter", we see evidence of this in all the crazy cartoon like manifestations of Stanleys suppressed "personalities" and the same is seen in Dorian the villain, and even Milo the dog. Though Loki is only mentioned briefly, he's a huge part of the film plot, and given The Mask was an absolute blockbuster, I'm surprised it is not mentioned in the Modern Culture section and I feel Wiki should revise that. Thanks for reading :) 2A02:C7C:D84B:5900:6EF6:325D:B079:7B9E (talk) 05:07, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Loki is the "true" final boss of Valkirie Profile, a role-playing game for the Playstation developed by Tri-Ace. He is depicted as a somewhat naive Aesir but if the conditions for the "true" ending are met it turns out he actually hates both Aesir and Vanir because neither of them have never accepted him as one of their own. He then kills Odin and then goes on a rampage to destroy Midgard -the world of humans-. While en route to defeat him you must fight against Fenrir and a dragon named Bloodbane (might reference/symbolize Jörmungandr). On this "true" ending the main character Lenneth (a Valkirie) states: "Nobody knew what was on your mind. You have decieved us all".--Ihavepinkbootson (talk) 21:20, 4 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Personally I would very much like to see a picture of Jim Carey on this page! I wasn't really interested in anything other than an experts comment on the film's mention of Loki. For us mortals it would be a nice thing to have. Beerni (talk) 12:23, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

 * Love Jim Carey, would hate to see a pic from "The Mask" on this page. I'm a big fan of Cuban Pete ("they call me king of the rumba beat"), but somehow this would seem out of place, especially with a picture. Trigaranus (talk) 14:03, 9 August 2010 (UTC)

 * I'd like to see the mention of Loki's mention in "The Mask". Just the line would be fine, I bet some people don't like that because of the "seriousness" of this article, but Loki's mention in The Mask is an ocurrence of Loki in popular culture, and it's real (or would be "citation needed"?). Something expected to be found here. --Julius (talk) 11:03, 2 December 2010 (UTC)

 * There is this nifty feature called "what links here". What does a trivia section accomplish that just using that feature doesn't?  Ekwos (talk) 05:45, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

 * There's a Yu-Gi-Oh! card named after Loki, if that is relevant, as seen on this page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bhigpx (talk • contribs) 00:47, 5 May 2012 (UTC)

 * After Loki is named a character in "Stargate" TV series, Loki is also referenced in TV series called "Vikings".212.25.58.46 (talk) 10:57, 2 March 2016 (UTC)

 * At the least, while I understand that the popular culture references can spiral out of control of not carefully watched, should a reference to Atreus (known to his fellow giants as Loki) in the new God of War video game be mentioned and how he and his father inadvertently killed Baldur and started Fimbulwinter. 128.138.59.49 (talk) 17:06, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

Mother of Sleipnir
I would like to state the problem of how it says Loki is the mother Of sleipnir, I'm not quite sure what that means! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.175.137.43 (talk) 22:47, 2 November 2009 (UTC)
 * In the Prose Edda book Gylfaginning, Loki is described as having given birth to Sleipnir in the form of a mare, a female horse. The father was Svaðilfari, a stallion. bloodofox: (talk) 02:44, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
 * If you read the original myth, it soon becomes clear that Loki is a shapeshifter, often crossing borders between both species and gender, like in thrymskvida, where he dresses up as a woman and constantly uses female gender variants. (The hyper-masculine Thor also dresses up, but doesn't seem to give a damn about his appearance.) 惑乱 Wakuran (talk) 13:45, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Loki as Hermes/Prometheus/Enki to Odin as Jove/Zeus/Enlil?
In Sumerian Mythology, Enlil is given dominion over Eurasia, while Enki is given dominion over Africa. "Enlil" means "Lord over all", whereas "Enki" means "Lord over the Earth". Specifically, Enki is the "creator" and patron God of Mankind, and often acts for the benefit of humans, while Enlil often acts to their detriment. One of Enki's titles, "Nudimmud", translates roughly as "Artificier" - Enki is the God that creates new technologies for Man (i.e. Prometheus giving fire to the Greeks, Loki tricking the Dwarves into creating many items [Mjoellnir, for example], and sundry similar myths starring Hermes as such a Friend of Man). The holes in this theory are the following: Enki and Enlil are on bad terms with each other, as are Loki and Odin, and Prometheus and Zeus - however, Hermes and Jove appear to be friendly towards each other, for the most part. Similarly, Enki is the creator of Modern Man, fulfilling a similar role to that of Heimdalr, yet it is Loki who slays Heimdalr at Ragnarok.

Perhaps the passage of time caused the myths to change slightly between different cultures, but there should still be sections in each of these characters' pages dealing with the (rather obvious) links between them, so that a better understanding of the potential roles of these characters can be ascertained.

Specifically, all that we know of Loki comes predominantly from Christian-era texts. The Christian God is often identified as Enlil from Sumerian Mythology, thus, if the Enlil/Enki conflict were to be translated into European myth, it would make sense for followers of Enlil to paint Enki in a bad light. If Odin corresponds with Enlil/Christian God, then Loki corresponds with Enki/The Adversary (Satan or Lucifer, depending on your preference). We cannot know exactly how Loki was seen by the Norse peoples, as we only have potentially (and probably) biased records against him. However, it would be viable to say that Loki was a similar figure to the Norse as Prometheus was to the early Greeks, and as Enki was to the Sumerians, Egyptians, Phoenicians, and so on.

Perhaps this topic of discussion is rather larger than originally intended. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.242.159.23 (talk) 05:28, 12 November 2009 (UTC)

 * it is notoriously difficult and controversial to suggest that a god from one pantheon has a direct cognate in another pantheon. for example, are the similarities there because of cultural influence, or because any given polytheistic pantheon is a creation of biologically similar human minds?  it is even more complicated if we see the gods as real entities who may have changed their forms and names to reflect their environment.  it is very difficult to cite the influence of one pantheon on another, because the myths developed over a long period, and we dont really know how the different cultures interacted economically or socially.

 * in my opinion, the norse pantheon is unique because the king is also the magician (mercury > mercredi ; woden > wednesday), and the giants (jotun, titans) are gracefully accepted as part of the structure, if not the ruling class.

 * you may find this article fruitful for your studies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proto-Indo-European_religion Substatique (talk) 03:48, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

While it would be foolish to make unsubstantiated claims about specific cognates, this article seems to ignore any discussion of the importance of Loki as Trickster/Fool motif. That seems to be a problem. JDClaunch (talk) 03:03, 20 May 2010 (UTC)

"The arrival of Thor and the bondage of Loki "
In this section it mentions Nari & Narfi, though the disambiguation pages say they are the same, just alternate spellings, and that the brother who changes into a wolf is Váli not Narfi (as Narfi is Nari). 71.34.67.135 (talk) 06:01, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

 * Those articles need to be rewritten. While incomplete, this article is concise. bloodofox: (talk) 07:06, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

 * Loki had two sons: Narvi and Vali. The æsir changed Vali into a wolf, and he then attacked his brother and tore him apart. Loki was bound with the entrails of Narvi. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.202.88.54 (talk) 19:04, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Loki Worship
The article fails to address the notion that there is no archeological evidence that Loki was ever actually worshiped.209.2.210.144 (talk) 22:51, 25 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This is conjecture. If added, whoever is making said conjecture must be plainly stated. bloodofox: (talk) 18:59, 2 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, playing devil's advocate, the article then fails to mention any archeological evidence of Loki worship. Either way, the lack of discussion of the worship of Loki (as opposed to simply his role in myth) is missing from the article and an attempt should be made to fill this void with sourced information.209.2.229.239 (talk) 18:33, 22 February 2010 (UTC)
 * Well, we do have a pretty solid 'archaeological record' section that covers Loki. The section doesn't much go into the implications of the find (as in what it may say for religious practices involving Loki), but it does make it pretty clear that there is some pretty convincing archaeological evidence for the figure. Ideally, such theories would be handled in a "theories" section (currently absent), and there anyone who has discussed the issue would be appropriately attributed.

 * You may be interested to know that we currently do lack a section handling the role of Loki in later Scandinavian folklore (and there's a surprising amount to write about on the subject). I'd go ahead and start working on this stuff myself, but as it is I am pretty strapped for time. bloodofox: (talk) 19:52, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

File:Louis Huard - The Punishment of Loki.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Louis Huard - The Punishment of Loki.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on August 26, 2010. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2010-08-26. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks!  howcheng  {chat} 00:30, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

Loki is the devil and Satan

 * It's pretty obvious, isn't it? He is called "originator of deceits" and "disgrace of all gods and men". He is also the father of Hel_(being) and therefore Hel_(location), as in: the one who brought death into the world, hell itself. He is also the father of the world serpent Jörmungandr who kills Thor, and the wolf Fenrir who kills Odin.

 * In the Lokasenna (in this article) Loki is literally Satan. He is the accuser, the slanderer, the liar, as in: the father of lies (the "originator of deceits").
 * Thor refers to him as an "evil creature".

 * And then there is his alternative name, Loptr. Since most experts agree that the name stems from Old Norse lopt, meaning air, there is yet another indication that Loki is indeed the devil. In the Bible, the devil is alternatively called "prince of the power of the air". Remember that many stories in the Bible are based on older mythologies (i.e. Sumerian).

 * Also, Loki is a shapeshifter. He did appear as a fly. Beelzebub, the "lord of the flies", is another name for the devil. 178.201.17.154 (talk) 01:02, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Loki is also responsible for the death of the god Baldr, as in: "a murderer from the beginning", as the devil is called in the Bible. 178.201.17.154 (talk) 01:08, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

 * First off you are making the point as if Satan is a real thing and Loki is a representation of that, whereas WP does not hold that stance. So in the end you are talking about two completely different mythologies. At best this is WP:SYNTH. If you have sources that make this connection then maybe they could be added. But I would be against it in this article. Perhaps a separate article about all mythologies with these kinds of characters. Again, they would all need sources that make the connections of course. Colincbn (talk) 01:24, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

 * The article does mention that Sophus Bugge theorized (in the 19th century) that Loki is Lucifer. This theory isn't largely accepted by specialists anymore. The only times I've read any mention of this is in Simek's dictionary, and Régis Boyer's French translation of the Poetic Edda, and they both disagree with the comparison. The other specialized books I've read don't even feel the need to mention that old theory.--Munin75 (talk) 05:19, 31 August 2011 (UTC)

 * Loki also specifically accuses and slanders the Aesir. Satan is most often understood to be a slanderer against humanity, but in the Book of Revelation it is made clear that Satan slanders the angels in heaven - see Revelation 12:10. Just as Loki accuses the Aesir, Satan accuses the angels. 178.201.17.154 (talk) 05:20, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

 * There are 3 main enemies of God and humanity mentioned in the Book of Revelation who play a major role during the end time: the Dragon (Satan), the Beast from the Sea and the Beast from the Earth. During Ragnarök, Jormungandr (literally a Beast from the Sea) comes out of the ocean and poisons the sky. And Fenrir (literally a Beast from the Earth) comes free and kills Odin.178.201.17.154 (talk) 05:41, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Any percieved similarities you see between the Norse myths and the Bible is irrelevant in connection with Wikipedia, as such a method would be original research. Per policy you will need to present reliable secondary sources that presents this theory of yours. As Munin75 mentions above, the only noteworthy example of this is the 19th century theory which has long since been abandonded by scholars, and is already covered in the article. --Saddhiyama (talk) 10:42, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Error in Snaptun Stone description
The section about the Snaptun Stone says "The figure is identified as Loki due to the lips, considered a reference to a tale recorded in Skáldskaparmál where the Sons of Ivaldi stitch up Loki's lips". The Slaldskaparmal acctually says it is Brokkr, and not Ivaldi's sons, who sows Loki's lips. I didn't modify this in the article itself, because it's possible that it is the source (Madsen, 1990) that is mistaken.. so I don't really know how to go about it.--Munin75 (talk) 05:19, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have a copy of the source and will go back and check this out. bloodofox: (talk) 16:34, 31 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'm back with the source, which, regarding Loki's depiction on the stone, states (in both Danish and English) that:

 * Of course, Danish "dværge" is linguistically cognate to and semantically the same as "dwarfs", so the choice of "gnomes" makes one wonder what was going on with the translation, but you can see that the Sons of Ivaldi were in mind here. And while the articles relating to the Sons of Ivaldi are in need of a rewrite, a look at the source material Skáldskaparmál (Faulkes (1995:96-97) indicates that more than one dwarf of that family was involved in the actual stitching, and so one may as well just drop the definite article and call it a day. Nice catch! bloodofox: (talk) 01:37, 1 September 2011 (UTC)

Loki ballad from Faroe Islands
I've added this (the IP is me, but I've only just registered so added it when I was unregistered) because I was surprised that the article failed to mention an outstanding piece of the folklore from outside Scandinavia.--Herneshound (talk) 22:49, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks. We appreciate such input. I had no knowledge of this poem and was pleasantly surprised to learn that it existed. Perhaps you could elaborate and provide the date and estimations about authorship, or if there is none state that. As it stands is fine, but since we are an ecncyclopedia we wouldn't mind the rest of the information concerning this poem. Cheers. --Saddhiyama (talk) 23:06, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I have reverted this addition because Northvegr.com—a commercial, ideological website—is not a reliable source. We do need coverage of this ballad, but only by way of a reputable, preferably published source. :bloodofox: (talk) 00:06, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

OK, I understand about Northvegr, though I disagree. Yes, the site has a religious function, but its ideological purpose is to provide translations of untranslated works within this religious category. However, that aside, I could have used the Faroe Islands Post Office, which is a site that is a prime source for Faroese folklore, but as the site merely reproduces without explanation I presumed that would be less acceptable than a source devoted to translating the texts. Would Wikipedia Loka_Táttur do as a source? Or would that also count as a commercial site, as it requires money to accomplish its ideological aims? --Herneshound (talk) 19:38, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

Sorry, that sounded a little more aggressive than I intended. I would welcome a more expanisive explanation of why Northvegr is considered unreliable in order to assist me with any future contributions. :)--Herneshound (talk) 20:05, 28 November 2011 (UTC)

 * The Wikipedia article you mention above employs reliable sources. Those are the sources you should be looking for. Northvegr is non-reliable because it is a website with an agenda; it openly attempts character assassination on Viktor Rydberg, for example, while at the same time racking up money on ad programs. All of the public domain material it hosts can be found by way of reliable sources (such as Google Books). All other material the site hosts is either dubious and/or is of no use here. Judging by your comments above, I should also point out that the Wikimedia Foundation is a non-profit organization. :bloodofox: (talk)

That is a better explanation, thanks. I don't care whether sites indulge3 in Ryborg criticism or obtain support by selling ads - my only concern is wether the material on the site is a reliable translation. Surely that is the issue when a translation is posted, not its ideology? I could say that a non-profit organisation generally has an ideology, so it would then be a question of personal preference of ideology, but that is netierh here nor there - the point is the reliability of the material, not the politics. What makes the material on Northvegr unreliable? --Herneshound (talk) 18:17, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

I have replaced something about this into the article with the Wiki reference, under the 'folklore' sub-heading. --Herneshound (talk) 18:58, 29 November 2011 (UTC)

 * The main issue is that the website is essentially an ideological, money-making device with no academic merit, and due to its ideological slant, anything transcribed on the site is going to be questionable. Wikipedia is not a platform for these websites to advertise, and, since there are far more appropriate sources available on the internet here in 2011, when someone sources something to Northvegr here they are essentially doing exactly that.

 * Wikipedia is never a primary source; Wikipedia policy dictates that original research is not allowed, and therefore Wikipedia is intended to simply report what other sources have stated. As a result, the circle of referencing Wikipedia articles to other Wikipedia articles is inappropriate. What we want are published (in this case academic) sources. I've rewritten the section with an appropriate source. :bloodofox: (talk)

Loki and Útgarða-Loki
I'm struggling to find sources discussing the other possible theory of Loki's origin, that he developed out of the figure now known as Útgarða-Loki. It neatly explains why there is a vagueness as to whether Loki is a god or a giant/jotunn, and why there is no evidence he was actually worshipped. Both are trickster figures, too. According to the page on Útgarða-Loki, in Gesta Danorum, a figure called "Utgarthilocus" lies chained and tortured in a cave like Loki, another odd link between the two figures.Kaid100 (talk) 02:52, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

What functions does Loki cover as a god
Could Loki be considered a god of chaos as well as a trickster? Jdogno5

Missing explanation
This article seems to cover everything there is to know about Loki, but one thing. Where did Loki's power originate? He seems to be by far the most powerful of the Jotuns. Not only that, his power and influence is on par with Odin's, the leader of the Aesir. In fact, Loki is able to change the course of destiny. He fathers Fenrir, and all what the Aesir can do about it, is to bind the wolf. But they can't change the fact that Fenrir WILL kill Odin on Ragnarok. Odin, the most powerful of the Aesir, cannot prevent his own death by Loki (as the father of Fenrir). The same goes for Jormungandr. The Aesir cannot prevent Thor's death. They cannot bring back Baldur from Hel. They can't prevent or revert these things. Why not just kill the children of Loki and prevent all that from happening? Again, it seems that Loki is so powerful that he can change the course of destiny. He fathered Fenrir and from that moment on it was clear, and nothing could alter it, that Fenrir WILL kill Odin. It is destined that Odin will be killed. 88.153.214.148 (talk) 02:39, 22 January 2013 (UTC)

Unsourced Trivia
I have removed a large assortment of miscellaneous use of the name Loki in popular culture which appeared without any references. This section had multiple problems, a lack of external sources and a very shallow and unencyclopedic structure. It is important when dealing with the uses of historical and literary figures to explain, using third party, independent sources, why such borrowings are important. It doesn't realy matter that a character loosely based on Loki appeared in this or that comic book, and puts undue emphasis on pop-culture which in relation to the wider subject is only a minor concern. If serious academic study or critisim of the literature (read: comics and film) sheds some light on how Loki is used by these authors, then we can cite that, or if the authors in question have gone on record talking about their influences and specifically mention the mythological Loki, then we can cite that. I do specifically recall reading Neil Gaiman discussing his version of the character Thor, so he may well have mentioned Loki. It's worth doing the research to find these kind of sources, as it will improve the article. Otherwise there is no real reason to keep unsourced, largely trivial information. Davémon (talk) 16:00, 22 March 2013 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 January 2014
This article quite often uses the plural form "jötnar" when the singular form "jötunn" is meant (e.g. "... Skaði's father, jötnar Þjazi." should be "... Skaði's father, the jötunn Þjazi.") All instances of "jötnar" that refer to a single person should be changed to "jötunn".

I would have edited it myself, but for some reason this page is locked...

Fer radstake (talk) 13:26, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

 * Fixed. It looks like someone came by that was well-intentioned but unclear. :bloodofox: (talk) 14:26, 20 January 2014 (UTC)

 * On the topic, both jötnar and jötunn are actually the Icelandic forms of these words and should be substituted with jǫtnar and jǫtunn as ö did not exist in Old Norse.199.48.106.4 (talk) 18:22, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 April 2014
In the 4th paragraph: change Loki is attested in the Poetic Edda to Loki is mentioned in the Poetic Edda

The original form implies that the existance ok Loki (not in a poem or legend or whatever, but in reality) is already accepted, known to be true and the Poetic Edda bears whitness to that.

188.24.179.239 (talk) 08:52, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

 * ✅ Good point, fixed. But used "referred to" instead of "mentioned" which suggests too passing a reference. Let me know if that presents any issues. Euryalus (talk) 08:59, 5 April 2014 (UTC)

God or Jötunn? Not both.
The article reads: "In Norse mythology, Loki, Loptr, or Hveðrungr is a god or jötunn (or both)." What is the source for "or both"? Loki is a jötunn, not a god. I find this confusing, has "god" been added simply because popular culture of today keeps depicting Loki as a god? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2605:E000:5A81:2F00:D46B:AC84:5733:B0D1 (talk) 16:26, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

 * Loki's father is a jotun, but as far as I know, it's not known what his mother was. My guess is he's called a god because he was worshiped by the Norse. But I agree that line is weird. An explanation could be Loki's mother being a god would make him a god and both. But I would like confirmation from someone who can cite something. Why is he called a god? Because of his mother or because he was part of the Norse pantheon? Enacional (talk) 07:58, 19 October 2015 (UTC)
 * You need to distinguish between what Loki is in the mythological universe and what he is in relation to our current description of Norse religion. Thereare no "Gods" in the mythological universe. There are Aesir, vanir and jotun. "God" (or probably better deity) is a concept that we use today when we describe the religion. It is unrelated to what their family relations within the mythological universe are. ·maunus · snunɐɯ· 21:19, 7 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I think Maunus is right on the mark here. It's an all but invisible but major issue in ancient Germanic studies. I would expect a total reassessment of the vocabulary used to describe these entities at some point in the future. Fortunately we're treading pretty lightly around this headache-inducing topic on Wikipedia at the moment but we could do a better job of being clear about what is being translated over to "god" and "goddess". :bloodofox: (talk) 23:03, 7 May 2016 (UTC)

 * Fair enough. I guess I call the Æsir and the Vanir gods because that's what it said when I read about the Æsir-Vanir War. If I remember correctly, since the Vanir won the war, the Æsir accepted to share with them their title of gods (their being worshiped by humans). I read it in English though, so as Bloodofox says, it might not have been god in the original language, which I hadn't considered. Enacional (talk) 23:32, 10 May 2016 (UTC)

Edda Resenii
According to The Fairy Mythology, Loki is attested in the "Edda Resenii". See here. Those myths, if valid, should probably be added to the page; if it turns out that Keightley was inaccurate in claiming these to be legitimate myths, then maybe on a Loki in popular culture section?72.12.205.35 (talk) 03:37, 1 April 2015 (UTC)

Name of the river of venom
Hi,

AFAICR the river of venom running from Loke/Sigyn has a Norse name - Vån? -, but I can't find the name and esp. the meaning of it anywhere, not on the web, at least. Does anybody know? Or know where to, ahaha, looke? Then it could even be included in the article.

T — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.166.163.126 (talk) 23:17, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * As far as I know it wasn't a river but a snake suspended above him.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 23:50, 8 May 2015 (UTC)
 * Problem solved: the river in question flows from the maws of Fenrir. Nothing to do with Loki. Sry. T

88.91.200.88 (talk) 20:00, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

Edit-Warring and Loki "depicted as evil"
Recently a user has repeatedly been adding this wall of text to the introduction, complete with the usual sign of a problem—a daisy chain of Googled references, many of which are poor. In any case, the introduction already covers what this seems to be attempting to convey in a neutral and competent manner without some vague nonsense about undefined "depictions". However, the user is edit-warring, at times restoring the problematic text without an edit summary and not responding to questions about exactly what they're trying to communicate. If this keeps up, this page is going to need to be protected. :bloodofox: (talk) 21:06, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

 * I don't understand how my edit is "unclear" or "vague nonsense." There is nothing opinionated about it, it is merely stating a fact, and briefly at that. The sources for the most part don't seem poor to me, and most are in fact rather scholarly. Regardless, the sources' very existence certainly support the assertion that Loki has been portrayed as a "god of mischief," "trickster god," and even "evil," as they all state this at some point. My edits are certainly not POV in intention, and I don't believe they are POV in actuality. They are merely stating that Loki has been portrayed in a certain way, which is an undeniable fact. I believe it is important to state somewhere in the article that Loki has time and again been portrayed as both a "god of mischief" or an "evil" entity, regardless of whether you believe these labels are anachronistic or inapplicable to Pre-Christian Germanic mythology. I would mostly agree with you on that point. I'm not in disagreement with you, overall. Labelling Loki an "evil diety" is overly simplistic when applied to the enigmatic Loki and reflects a more modern view (although it does states earlier in the article that Thor himself referred to Loki as an "evil creature," according to the Larrington source.)

 * That said, I think that denying, censoring, or erasing the fact that Loki is and has been portrayed as "evil" or "mischievous" is certainly more POV than merely mentioning this fact in two short sentences, which, by the way, include a caveat that mentions that many scholars view such portrayals as inaccurate or the result of Christian influence on Norse mythology. It is not as if I am trying to turn Loki into some sort of demonic entity. I have no such intentions. But to ignore and constantly revert two sentences that simply state that Loki has been portrayed as "evil" in the past seems to me to be the result of some sort of scholarly indignity at a perceived misinterpretation of Norse mythology. That's all well and good. But Wikipedia is not a place where you should leave out information that you disagree with or that does not support your scholarly point of view. I intend to merely state a fact, scholarly or not. That's it.

 * Furthermore, neither the introduction nor the rest of article completely cover what I am trying to say. The introduction briefly mentions that Loki has been called a "trickster god," and states that there is controversy and debate over his origins and role, but that's about all it says. There is also reference to the 1889 Bugge theory that Loki is a variant of Lucifer, but this also does not quite convey what is being said in my edits, though it may hint at it a bit. Overall, I have no intentions of forcing a POV, I just think it's important to state this information (which is strangely nowhere to be found in the article) even if this information does not coalesce with Germanic studies or current scholarly views on Norse mythology. I apologize if this information is controversial, as it is not intended to be. But its existence remains, and it should be included in the article.  Madreterra (talk) 21:27, 7 July 2015 (UTC)

 * OK, I see what you're going for—thank you for clarifying. As I see it, the major problems with your proposed addition are as follows:
 * "has often been depicted by more modern sources as an enigmatic" is far too ambiguous to make sense. Are you talking about popular culture? Are you talking about scholarly discourse?
 * This is essentially all covered or can be covered more accurately by sources already summarized in the article. For example, by the von Schnurbein citation. I recommend against creating a daisy chain of references, some of them dubious, and perhaps creating a more detailed summary of von Schnurbein's article.
 * If you're talking about pop culture, then it's better to draw from Rudolf Simek's handbook or maybe even expand on what we have there from Arvidsson's book.
 * In short, right now the entry you want to add is ambiguous and overlaps a lot with what is already there. If you're seeing a point that's missing, then it may be wise to look to the von Schnurbein article or from Simek and expand our write up from there. :bloodofox: (talk) 16:42, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

"Inappropriate"
"I don't like it" is never a good enough reason. What exactly is wrong in putting Satan in the See Also section, aside from the petty reason of it going against your nerdy-ass fantasies?Music314812813478 (talk) 00:19, 14 July 2017 (UTC)
 * As the article stands, the inclusion of the link is WP:OR. You've added it twice, but given no reason or references for the addition. The Dystheism link you deleted is arguably relevant (although I wouldn't argue strongly for it); but the only connection to Satan in the article as written is the mention of Bugge's 19th C. theories, which aren't backed by any more recent references, and which already have a link to Lucifer in the text.

 * See also several discussions earlier on this talk page, including.

 * Nitpicking polish (talk) 18:38, 18 July 2017 (UTC)

 * Okay, thanks.Music314812813478 (talk) 09:45, 26 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Music314812813478, "nerdy-ass fantasies"? This isn't the internet, you know--please maintain some decorum. Drmies (talk) 14:41, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

Loki is Loke in swedish
His name in swedish should be mensioned at the start of the text together with his norwegian and islandic names. This god is nordic and not just norwegian. Does norse mean norwegian? 94.191.140.167 (talk) 23:03, 13 April 2018 (UTC)
 * Please see Old Norse. :bloodofox: (talk) 17:11, 25 April 2018 (UTC)

"Attestations"
I believe the section heading "Attestations" is misused. In fact, the word is in direct contradiction to the subject matter.

From Merriam Webster: 1 : an act or instance of attesting something: such as a : a proving of the existence of something through evidence b : an official verification of something as true or authentic

2 : the proof or evidence by which something (such as the usage of a word) is attested

We are not pretending Loki is anything more than a mythical, supernatural being, are we? The word "attestation" is being applied to the literature recounting this being, but could also be misconstrued as proving the existence of the article's eponymous construct. It's the wrong word, it's superfluous, and imho does not belong in this article.Nickrz (talk) 15:24, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

 * This is a term used by specialists to refer to where the figure occurs in the historical record (for example, 'Loki is attested in ...'). :bloodofox: (talk) 16:10, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

 * Mythical characters are of course attested in recorded mythological narratives. Just like other intangible ideas can be attested in written sources.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 17:08, 21 August 2018 (UTC)

Someone purged nearly the entire '''
Modern popular culture==''' section== About an hour ago, one editor purged nearly the entire ==Modern popular culture== section, on the alleged grounds that discussion of Loki's appearance in modern storytelling has "zero educational value." I undid this edit. Here is my rationale: Encyclopædic coverage of modern storytelling is no less educational than encyclopædic coverage of ancient storytelling. Storytelling influences the cultures in which the stories are told, and modern stories involving Loki are of no less notability than ancient ones involving him. Indeed, I would argue that the fact that Loki is prominent enough in our modern culture that stories are still being written about and involving him is of intrinsic educational value. The removal of the section only serves to make the article less educational than it previously was by hiding from the reader the enduring influence of Loki as a character. (The reason I opted above to express my reasoning for the reversion is in an effort to ensure that no edit war results therefrom.) allixpeeke (talk) 06:30, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
 * It's pure junk. ...and can you pls not add info that you can't source your self. --Moxy (talk) 11:46, 13 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Also where's Matt Damon's portrayal of Loki on Dogma? --Some Lazy Guy, 7:00, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

 * Pop culture sections always need to be regularly purged and then rewritten with only representations that are actually notable in relation to the topic.·maunus · snunɐɯ· 07:29, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Pop culture sections are trash, and usually just turn into nerd trivia sections. No sources, big list, no proof of notability. And it's also WP:RECENTISM. A story can exist for thousands of years, but pop culture sections end up taking 2/3 of the article from media from the last 20 years. Harizotoh9 (talk) 22:36, 11 April 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 April 2019
want to ad that the character Atreus in God of War 2018 is revealed to be Loki at the end Humanstingmon (talk) 08:22, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
 * That sort of looks like miscallenous information (and a spoiler). You can of course point to reliable sources showing that this appearance has had a cultural impact. – Þjarkur (talk) 12:35, 4 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. NiciVampireHeart 15:28, 4 April 2019 (UTC)

Style of English
As I see words get spelling corrected from perfectly good American English to perfectly good British English i wonder, is it time to pick one? —¿philoserf? (talk) 21:14, 5 June 2020 (UTC)

Infobox
As the introductory paragraphs of this article alone make clear, sources matter. Unfortunately, an editor is adding and readding an infobox to this article, as if it were a vehicle or a comic book character or some similar item or entity, rather than a deity known to us from a complex of often-contradictory and always complex sources. Unlike a brand of cereal, there's no ready-made set of stats one can list about a deity, as any such information is dependent upon source; something an infobox cannot communicate without turning into a paragraph. As it stands, infoboxes like these are misinformation for the reader. :bloodofox: (talk) 18:12, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * and, who have engaged in similar discussions in these spaces. :bloodofox: (talk) 18:18, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

No, it's not. All the information in the infobox can be found in the article itself. There are just some basic facts. Many pages use infoboxes, including mythology, history, etc. Complex subjects. You're over-simplifying them because you don't like them. That a subject is complex doesn't mean some basic facts can't be distilled from it and presented in a clean, summarized way. Controversial information has already been removed from the infobox.

And I see that you are, once again, calling in your friends to support your position. You can't even wait for people who follow this article to express their opinion?

Flordeneu (talk) 18:23, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

 * The "controversial information" this editor is referring to is an earlier version of the infobox the editor was pushing, which listed the deity as "Father of Lies" and "personification of fire", using Daly's notoriously inaccurate Norse Mythology A to Z. Some fundamental background in these topics is necessarily to get a handle on them: Again, we're not writing about car models or cereal brands here, and Wikipedia has a lot of terrible articles on the topic of myth—there's no need to try to turn this into one of them. :bloodofox: (talk) 18:29, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

 * No, this article should not have an infobox. I am pleased to see that the latest attempt did not have a "god of" bit to it, but it still inevitably oversimplifies and thus misleads. It makes it seem as if he's about his family relationships. And Ragnarǫk (why's there a line for "battles" in this infobox?) The lead provides an altogether better introduction, including mentioning the controversies (although it still rather swallows Snorri's line). Yngvadottir (talk) 18:37, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

 * bloodofox, you're talking about an old version. That wasn't in the last version. Read it before you criticize. And the "cereal brands" and "comic characters" comments only show how little you know about how infoboxes are used around Wikipedia.
 * Yngvadottir: I think you have a misconception about what infoboxes are. Family information doesn't make it look like is all about the family. It just gives some background information. It's the same thing the infoboxes in monarch's pages do and nobody thinks the article is all about the family. For example, look at Isis or Hathor, or even Mary, Queen of Scots. All three are featured articles that have useful infoboxes and nobody thinks they're oversimplifying or misleading. That's because an infobox is a tool. It is not an article and nobody expects it to be. And if you don't agree with the "battle" parameter, we can just leave it blank. That doesn't invalidates the rest of the infobox. Flordeneu (talk) 20:40, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * It seems like this is a classic case of WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT: Again, entities from the folklore record are not comparable to living people whose ancestry and progeny do not vary by source, place, or time; and poor coverage on myth elsewhere on Wikipedia does not mean we lower standards on superior articles. :bloodofox: (talk) 20:57, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

 * 1) That you think that in history "ancestry and progeny do not vary by source" shows that you know nothing about history, ancient and medieval history specially. Loki's ancestry and progeny are crystal clear compared to some important historical characters.
 * 2) Featured articles have "poor coverage"? Do I need to remind you this "superior" article is B-rate? Get off your ivory tower, please. And apply that WP:IDIDNTHEARTHAT to yourself. You're in dire need of it. Or better, read the articles before you dis them.
 * Flordeneu (talk) 21:29, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Let me run that by you again, as you seem to have not quite read it, with added italics: "entities from the folklore record are not comparable to living people whose ancestry and progeny do not vary by source". Again, some fundamental background in these topics would save you a lot of time when editing on these topics. Second, the FA process is not a means of measuring quality, and "B" grade can be warded by anyone Both of the articles you've linked to have major, fundamental flaws, the core being the inability to discern between synchronic status and diachronic change. Were you familiar with these or related topics, you'd understand the importance of source criticism and core aspects such as diffusion and motif transmission. In fact, we wouldn't be having this conversation at all. :bloodofox: (talk) 21:56, 15 June 2020 (UTC)

 * 1) Let me run that by you again: you're totally missing the point, once more. You're conflating two different things and that's the root of all the problems. You seem to believe an infobox is an article, when it's not. It's a tool with a definite scope and purpose. It's not the infobox's job to explain all of those things you comment. It's the article's job to do so. None of these arguments you're so hung about has anything to do with the infobox's job.
 * 2) If the "FA process is not a means of measuring quality" then any article could be a featured one. You may not like how these articles are written, but that doesn't make them bad.
 * 3) I'm very aware of the problems of source criticism, thank you very much. And all those things are for the article to explain, they're not the infobox' purpose. At all.
 * 4) I've had enough of is your "holier than you" attitude, both here and in the Odin article. You may be a folklore expert, but that doesn't give you the right to look down on everyone else. Check your ego at the door. This isn't the place for it.
 * Flordeneu (talk) 00:25, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

 * PD: Several persons are editing this article, yet you seem to be the only one who has a problem with the infobox. You should think about that too. Flordeneu (talk) 00:30, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

 * We are several people who have pointed out the problems with the infoboxes, it's not just Bloodofox. I think they should be avoided in all these articles, because they will inevitably give the impression that the myths exist in a static, logical system, which not even 18th-century rationalists believed. Whatever names and objects you place there will only apply to certain versions of the myth, in some cases a single poem or not even that, yet it will appear to the reader as universally established. Ffranc (talk) 11:02, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

 * I'm open to discussing that and I have no problem with it. My problem is with Bloodofox's "I know best" attitude. I'm going to wait a bit to see if someone else replies and then we can talk it out like reasonable people. Flordeneu (talk) 14:23, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

 * Well, it seems nobody but Bloodofox really cares about the infobox, not even to get a consensus. Flordeneu (talk) 17:50, 29 June 2020 (UTC)

Popular name for Loki “Locked one”
Quick note one of his many names that he’s usually the most popular is known as the locked one this is due to the fact that when he kills Baldur with the mistletoe arrow by deceiving his brother the blind one he’s locked away on Midgard chained up in a cave with a serpent dripping venom on his head constantly 69.119.145.159 (talk) 18:47, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

 * Interesting point about "the locked one", my Dad lives in Norway so I know a bit about Norse folklore, Valhalla, Odin, Loki etc. Oddly enough, the name Loki (lo-ki) actually sounds somewhat like the Anglo term for "imprisoned", "locked away" or "locked up" i.e "under lock and key" > lock-key > lo-ki. Though that could just be a translation coincidence, it has never occured to me until now, it's a pretty cool analogy :) Thanks, Chaz x 2A02:C7C:D84B:5900:6EF6:325D:B079:7B9E (talk) 05:27, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 February 2022
Loki also has a child thats an 8 legged horse that was then gifted to odin 122.56.76.171 (talk) 23:08, 27 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. The article already mentions this in several places. Please clarify what you are asking for.  RudolfRed (talk) 23:20, 27 February 2022 (UTC)

Modern Culture - Film - The Mask
I fully expected the 90s film "The Mask" starring Jim Carrey to be here. Loki is an integral part of the story, the old wooden/metal "mask" relic washes ashore, and after a bout of chaos, this mask is later deemed to be related to old Norse culture, representing "Loki", where upon he is described as "the Night God of Mischief". It is after this point Stanley (Carrey) discovers the mask only works at night. Also, in Norse folklore, Loki is often referred to as a "shape shifter", we see evidence of this in all the crazy cartoon like manifestations of Stanleys suppressed "personalities", the same is seen in Dorian the villain, and even Milo the dog. Though Loki is only mentioned briefly, he's a huge part of the film plot, and given The Mask was an absolute blockbuster, I'm surprised it is not mentioned in the Modern Culture section and I feel the Wiki geeks should consider revising that. Thanks for reading :) Chaz x 2A02:C7C:D84B:5900:6EF6:325D:B079:7B9E (talk) 05:18, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Loki Tale from the Crypt Presents Vikinguard (Version)
Alessandro Nivola as Loki 148.252.132.57 (talk) 13:32, 24 August 2023 (UTC)

In Popular Culture
Loki also appeard in the fantastical drama series called Ragnarok. 93.32.222.161 (talk) 20:27, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Loki's Other Children
What of some of his lesser known children, such as his supposed daughter Moder? EmoTrash2319 (talk) 08:31, 25 April 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 May 2024
I want to add the loki series that came out in 2021 2A06:C701:74E6:4300:353A:4406:1035:D36F (talk) 16:01, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: This is the article about the Norse god. There is already a mention of the Marvel character in the "Modern popular culture" section; adding more would be off topic. Liu1126 (talk) 16:10, 18 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Loki


text:
Chain pump

The chain pump is type of a water pump in which several circular discs are positioned on an endless chain. One part of the chain dips into the water, and the chain runs through a tube, slightly bigger than the diameter of the discs. As the chain is drawn up the tube, water becomes trapped between the discs and is lifted to and discharged at the top. Chain pumps were used for centuries in the ancient Middle East, Europe, and China.

In the Near East and Europe
The earliest evidence for this device is in a Babylonian text from about 700 B.C. They were commonly powered by humans or animals. The device then appeared in ancient Egypt from about 200 B.C., featuring a pair of gear-wheels.

A version of the chain pump was used in Ancient Greek and Roman, sometimes with pots, or scoops fixed to the chain, which, as they passed over the top pulley, tipped the water out; a 2nd century example is preserved in London. Philo of Byzantium wrote of such a device in the 2nd century B.C.; the historian Vitruvius mentioned them around 30 B.C. Fragments of the cogs, crank, and discs, of a Bilge pump, from a 1st Century Roman barge, were unearthed at Lake Nemi.

Chain pumps were used in European mines during the Renaissance; mineralogist Georg Agricola illustrated them in his De re metallica (1556). They were used in dockyards, and several formed part of the Portsmouth Block Mills complex. Chain pumps were commonly used on naval vessels of the time to pump the bilges, and examples are known in the nineteenth century for low-lift irrigation.

China

Chain pumps were also used in ancient China from at least the 1st century A.D. In China, they were also called dragon backbones. One of the earliest accounts was a description by the Han Dynasty philosopher Wang Chong (A.D. 27–97) around A.D. 80. Unlike those found in the West, chain pumps in China resembled the square-pallet type instead of the pear-shaped bucket. Illustrations of such Chinese chain pumps show them drawing water up a slanted channel. These were sometimes powered by hydraulics of a rushing current against a horizontal water wheel acting against a vertical wheel, and others by a horizontal mechanical wheel acting upon a vertical wheel that was pulled by the labor of oxen. There were also square-pallet chain pumps operated by pedals.

From the 1st century onwards, chain pumps were widespread throughout the Chinese countryside. Chinese square-pallet chain pumps were used mostly for irrigation, though they found use in public works as well. The infamous Eastern Han court eunuch Zhang Rang (d. A.D. 189) once ordered the engineer Bi Lan (畢嵐) to construct a series of square-pallet chain pumps outside the capital city Luoyang. These chain pumps serviced the palaces and living quarters of the Luoyang; the water lifted by the chain pumps was brought in by a pipe system. Ma Jun, the renowned mechanical engineer of the Three Kingdoms era, also constructed a series of chain pumps for watering the palatial gardens of Emperor Ming of Wei (226–239).

During the period of agricultural expansion in Song China (10th-13th centuries CE), the technology of water-rising devices was improved. For some centuries they had been used for moving water for drainage or irrigation purposes. The simplest design, known as the counterbalanced bucket or 'swape' or 'well-sweep' was in common use at that time. A more complicated design, the 'square-pallet chain pump', was introduced several centuries before the growth in Song technology, but had not seen prior use for farming. They became more common around the end of the first millennium AD.

From the 13th century onwards, the Chinese also used windmills (acquired from the Middle East) to power square-pallet chain pumps. Yet there were other types of chain pumps besides the square-pallet design. In Song Yingxing's (1587–1666) encyclopedic book the Tiangong Kaiwu (1637), there is description and illustration of a cylinder chain pump, powered by waterwheels and leading water up from the river to an elevated plain of agricultural crops.

The contribution of chain pumps to agricultural growth during the Song was extolled by poets such as Li Chuquan (李处权) of the twelfth century. The Song government actively spread the technology, introducing pumping equipment and chain pumps to those areas as yet unfamiliar with the technique.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Chain pump


text:
Talk:Economic cycles

this page overlaps with and thus repeats much of what appears in "the business cycle". Shouldn't they be merged and one erased? Jdevine 19:43, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Economic cycles


text:
Nox (video game)

Nox is an action role-playing game developed and published by Westwood Studios and Electronic Arts in 2000 for Microsoft Windows. It details the story of Jack, a young man from Earth who is pulled into a high fantasy parallel universe and has to defeat the evil sorceress Hecubah and her army of necromancers to return home. Depending on the player's choice of character class at the beginning of the game (warrior, conjurer, or wizard), the game follows three largely different linear storylines, each leading to its unique ending. In the multiplayer, players can compete against each other in various game modes such as deathmatch and capture the flag, while the freely downloadable expansion pack NoxQuest added a cooperative multiplayer mode. The game was generally well received by critics and the media.

Gameplay
The player controls Jack from oblique perspective with the mouse and a number of pre-defined hotkeys. The line of sight is limited by an innovative and well-received fog of war system named "TrueSight", which dynamically blacks out portions of the screen which Jack cannot see from his current position. The single-player campaign consists of multiple locations which Jack must explore, killing enemies and monsters and assisting his allies. Most of the game time is spent in dungeons and wilderness where Jack gathers experience points and collects items such as weapons, armor and spells, which can be equipped, learned, or sold to traders found in several locations throughout the game. The story is told through dialogue with non-player characters, cut scenes using the game engine, and a few pre-rendered full motion videos.

Depending on the character class the player selects at the beginning of the game, the style of gameplay varies greatly. The warrior characters are able to equip nearly all armour and mêlée weapons available in the game but cannot use bows, magical staves, or magical spells. They do have five spell-like special abilities but instead of using up magic points like the other classes' spells, they recharge over time. The conjurer class specializes in conjuration of various monsters found throughout the game, healing himself and his allies, and the use of bows and crossbows. They have a smaller array of spells than wizards but can summon monsters they've learned about from items called "Beast Scrolls". Alternatively, they can tame wild animals and monsters into following and fighting for them. The wizard characters are very limited in equippable weapons and armor and have very few hit points but can learn the largest array of magical spells, which they can use not only to kill enemies, but also to teleport themselves, to become invisible, and to heal themselves and their allies. Owing to its origins as a multiplayer magical combat simulator, the magic system is complex and allows for spell combinations and traps, inspired by Magic: The Gathering.

Weapons in the game come in many varieties and largely restricted to certain classes: most melee weapons and a few ranged weapons can only be used by warriors; bows and crossbows, by conjurers; and many magical staves, by wizards. Some weapons have enchantments on them that add magical bonus to the physical damage they deal to enemies. Armor can also have enchantments on it, protecting the wearer from certain types of harm (fire, poison, etc.). With very few exceptions, both weapons and armor wear down when used, so the player must either have them repaired by NPC traders or replace them with new items. At several points of the single-player campaign, non-player characters temporarily follow Jack, either to assist him or to be led to safety by him. These NPCs can be neither controlled by the player nor equipped with better items.

The multiplayer game types are similar to those found in online first-person shooters: deathmatch (further subdivided into "free for all", team, and clan modes), capture the flag, "Flagball" (similar to the "Bombing Run" mode in Unreal Tournament), "King of the Realm", and "Elimination" (deathmatch with limited respawns). The expansion pack NoxQuest introduced an eponymous cooperative multiplayer mode, wherein a player team must navigate through various locations, killing monsters and looting items. Originally, Westwood ran an online ladder ranking system of Nox multiplayer matches and team-based "Clan Matches" but it has since been closed down. The online services of the game were officially replaced by redirecting to the server portal XWIS maintaining the game's online playability; a feature shared by other Westwood Studios Command & Conquer titles.

Synopsis
The back-story of Nox is explained through location loading screens. Some decades before Jack's arrival to the Land of Nox (the eponymous fictional setting of the game), a group of Necromancers attempted to seize control over the world but was stopped by the legendary hero Jandor wielding an artifact weapon named "the Staff of Oblivion". Following the Necromancers' defeat, Jandor trapped their souls within the magical Orb, which the Arch-Wizard Horvath then transported to another dimension later revealed to be modern Earth. One of Jandor's last deeds of the war was saving a female infant he found in the Necromancers' lair: unsure what to do with a possible Necromancer offspring, he left the girl in the care of an Ogre village. He then disassembled the Staff and gave each piece to one of the three powerful factions in the game: the Fire Knights of the fortress Dün Mir (the Halberd of Horrendous), the wizards of Castle Galava (the Heart of Nox), and the conjurers' Temple of Ix (the Weirdling Beast). After this, he assumed the nickname "Airship Captain", under which he plays a mentor role to the player throughout the game.

The game opens with a pre-rendered video of a grown-up Hecubah, the Necromancer girl, who has rediscovered her roots and proclaimed herself the Queen of Necromancers, summoning the Orb back from Earth to greatly increase her power. However, her magic also transports the current owner of the artifact, Jack (who believes it to be a fireplace mantel decoration), to the Land of Nox. Jack lands on Jandor's airship and at this point, the storylines branch, depending on the player's selection of character class. The warriors start the game near the subterranean fortress of Dün Mir; conjurers, near the Village of Ix; and wizards, near Castle Galava. Upon completing any one of the storylines, the Airship Captain's voice during the rolling credits prompts the player to complete the game using another class.

 * Upon reaching Dün Mir, the warrior characters must go through the Gauntlet, a labyrinth full of monsters, to prove their skills to the Warlord Horrendous and to gain the rank of a "Fire Knight". Horrendous then sends the player to the Village of Ix to help the conjurers get rid of hedgehog-like monsters harassing the settlement. On the way back, Jack runs into some undead and to investigate them, the Airship Captain transports him to the Field of Valor, the battlefield-turned-graveyard of the Necromancer war. In the crypts beneath the Field, the player first encounters Hecubah and has to fight one of her Necromancer henchmen and many undead. Jack exits the crypts to find the nearby city of Brin devastated by an Ogre invasion and is entrusted with rescuing a group of women taken to the Ogre village of Grok Torr. Afterwards, Jandor arrives and tells Jack to reassemble the Staff of Oblivion and to defeat Hecubah with it. The first part to retrieve is the Halberd of Horrendous so Jack returns to Dün Mir, now besieged by undead, and witnesses Hecubah killing the Warlord. He is able to retrieve the Halberd and travels to Castle Galava to collect the second part of the Staff, the Heart of Nox, guarded by hostile wizards. The third part is the Weirdling, a living creature kept in the Temple of Ix and guarded by powerful monsters. The final part is the Orb itself, so Jack has to find his way to the Necromancers' Land of the Dead through the Dismal Swamp. Upon reassembling the Staff, he follows Hecubah to the Underworld and defeats her in the climactic final battle. After her death, Jack is immediately transferred back to Earth through a magical portal.
 * The conjurers start the game in the vicinity of the Village of Ix. Jack's first tasks are to locate his future mentor Aldwyn and to clear out the same monster lair as in the warrior's storyline. The third task is to rescue the Mana Mine workers near Ix who were befallen by monsters and scattered. Suspecting Hecubah behind the Mana Mine incident, the Airship Captain sends Jack to the Field of Valor. This part of the game is identical to the warrior's route, except that the conjurer must retrieve the Arch-Wizard Horvath's Amulet of Teleportation from Grok Torr instead of rescuing Brin women. Upon retrieving the Halberd of late Horrendous, Jack travels to Galava to find it overrun by the Ogres. Unlike the warrior, the conjurer is assisted by the wizards, and Horvath sacrifices himself to let Jack escape Hecubah. Retrieving the Weirdling and the rest of the game is identical to the warrior's storyline but the finale is different: using his abilities to possess Hecubah's Ogre bodyguards, Jack entraps her soul within the Orb, and the ending video sees Jandor pondering how to transport him back home.
 * The wizards route begins near Castle Galava, where Jack is tutored by Arch-Wizard Horvath. The first task is to locate Horvath's missing apprentice whose death prompts the Arch-Wizard to replace him with Jack. Now a wizard apprentice, the protagonist performs multiple duties around Galava, one of which sees him fighting a Necromancer. Like in the other two storylines, the Airship Captain transports Jack to the Field of Valor after this, and the plot remains the same except that Horvath himself must be rescued from the Ogre village. Unlike the warrior and the conjurer, however, the wizard has to take the Halberd from Horrendous by killing him. Jack returns to Castle Galava where Horvath hands him the Heart of Nox before being killed by Hecubah, who also teleports Jack to the Underworld. After escaping it, Jack retrieves the Weirdling and travels to the Land of the Dead like in the other routes. However, the wizard characters receive a twist ending wherein upon being defeated, Hecubah turns into an apparently innocent and amnesiac version of herself. Jack's final words in the game suggest that he stays in the Land of Nox with the redeemed Hecubah.

Characters

 * Jack Mower is the protagonist of the game. At the beginning of the story, he lives in a trailer with his girlfriend Tina on Earth and is the owner of the Orb. After Hecubah's magic transports him to the Land of Nox along with the Orb and his TV set, he is tutored by Jandor and either Horrendous, Aldwyn, or Horvath to become the new hero of Nox. In the warrior route, Jack returns to Earth; in the conjurer route, his return home is left uncertain; and in the wizard route, he stays in Nox. He is voiced by Seann William Scott.
 * Hecubah is the self-proclaimed Queen of Necromancers and the chief antagonist of the game. Her origins are unknown, as Jandor found her in the Land of the Dead after the Necromancer war and left her in care of an Ogre village. Her magic summons both the Orb and Jack to the Land of Nox, eventually leading to her demise. Jack kills her in both the warrior and the conjurer routes but as a wizard, he is able to purify her soul, turning her into an innocent and amnesiac version of herself. She is voiced by Joanna Cassidy.
 * Jandor, also known as the "Airship Captain", is the legendary hero of the Necromancer war who defeated the Necromancer army with the Staff of Oblivion. After that, he assumed the identity of an eccentric old airship captain, who plays mentor role to Jack throughout the game. His real identity is revealed half-way through the game, when he instructs Jack to reassemble the Staff. He is voiced by Alan Oppenheimer.
 * Warlord Horrendous is the leader of the Fire Knights of the fortress Dün Mir and the guardian of the first piece of the Staff of Oblivion, the Halberd named after him. In the warrior route, he tutors Jack for a short time before sending him to the Village of Ix. In all storylines, Horrendous is killed before Jack acquires the Halberd, either by Hecubah or by Jack himself (as a wizard). He is voiced by Mark Rolston.
 * Aldwyn the Conjurer is the most powerful conjurer in the Land of Nox, who briefly tutors Jack in the conjurer route. He is loosely affiliated with the Temple of Ix, where the Weirdling is kept, and lives far to the east of the Village of Ix. He is brother of Mordwyn the Druggist. Aldwyn is voiced by Warren Burton.
 * Arch-Wizard Horvath is the head of the wizards of Castle Galava, where the Heart of Nox, the second part of the Staff of Oblivion, is kept. He doesn't appear in the warrior route but is a prominent figure in the wizard's one, wherein he first accepts Jack as his apprentice, is then saved by him from the Ogre village, and finally sacrifices himself to let Jack escape Hecubah. He is voiced by Ian Abercrombie.
 * Morgan Lightfingers is a notorious thief and con artist whom all classes meet under different circumstances: the Wizard must capture him early in the game, while the Warrior must cooperate with him to escape from Castle Galava prison; to the Conjurer, Morgan simply sells a cheap bow. He is voiced by Warren Burton.
 * Mordwyn the Druggist is Aldwyn's brother who lives in the Dismal Swamp and appears late in every game route to briefly assist Jack on his quest. He is voiced by Bill Woodsen, who also provides the narrator voice in the game.
 * Gearhart is the chief engineer of Dün Mir whose commendation is necessary for Jack to apply for a Fire Knight rank. He is voiced by Mike Booth, who was also the author of the original concept of the game and its lead programmer.
 * Mayor Theogrin is the cowardly chief of the Village of Ix. He plays a minor role in warrior and conjurer routes. He is voiced by Lee Perry.
 * Tina is Jack's girlfriend on Earth who appears in the intro and the warrior ending video. She is voiced by Susan Chesler.

Production
The development of the game started in 1995 as a personal project of Mike Booth, the future technical director and lead gameplay designer of the game. An avid gamer, Booth began programming his own games on Apple II and VIC-20 computers while still at school, and started working on Nox "in a spare bedroom of [his] house" in college. To help produce the game, he co-founded Hyperion Technologies, a company that also worked on driving simulators. After Booth showed a demo of Nox to John Hight, an executive producer of Westwood Studios, at the 1997 Game Developers Conference, Westwood decided to acquire it and moved the development team to California.

Booth originally envisioned the game as an "updated version of Atari's Gauntlet", focusing on real-time magical combat in the vein of Magic: The Gathering and Mortal Kombat. Inspired by the "epic wizard battles" described in fantasy literature, Booth wanted to create a "multiplayer wizard battle game" and decided to set it in a medieval fantasy setting. It wasn't until Westwood started working on the game that it began to lean towards the RPG genre and two more classes (warrior and conjurer) and a single-player campaign were added.

The game was originally intended to be played with a gamepad, with spells cast by quickly pressing several buttons, inspired by Mortal Kombat ' s combos, but it was eventually deemed to be "a large barrier for new and less dexterous players" and replaced with numeric hotkeys and mouse-controlled movement. The leftovers of this system are, however, still seen in the released game in the form of syllables and hand gesture icons accompanying the casting of each spell. The "TrueSight" vision system has been programmed by Booth early in the development and served as one of the cornerstones of the gameplay.

The game is incredibly quick paced, requiring lightning reflexes and hand movements. Wizards have to be especially quick with hands, since toggling through 5x5 spell slots in the middle of a battle is a necessity, using obelisks and another obstacles in order to shield yourself from opponents. Warriors have to use precision and run around a lot, in order to predict the movement paths and strike in the correct moment. Conjurers are the most fragile class, but with the most deadly spells and weapons, finding angles and using monsters as their shield.

The multiplayer modes were inspired by the online first-person shooters, such as Quake and Unreal, both of which the development team played extensively.

Marketing
The game was "one of the most-hyped games" at E3 1999 and well received by journalists. In particular, they praised the TrueSight vision system, the "elegant" interface, and the dynamic game world.

In October 1999, Westwood began "Meet Nox Tour" in San Francisco Bay Area as part of a marketing campaign to raise awareness of the game and receive beta-testing feedback. The event was a LAN party lasted about five hours and capped off with a series of multiplayer tournaments; with a final prize of US$200 CompUSA stored-value card. The entire tour ended shortly before the release of the game and was, according to the executive producer John Hight, "a tremendous success". To promote Nox in post-launch, another event was organized in June 2000 in Las Vegas by Westwood; the LAN party was a mass tournament, ended with a final head-to-head clash between two highest-score gamers to win a new computer system worth US$2,500.

Nox has been re-distributed via digital delivery on Origin, and CD Projekt's GOG.com.

Reception
The game received favorable reviews according to the review aggregation website GameRankings. It was often compared to Diablo II, which was released five months after it. Trent C. Ward of IGN praised the game as a successful clone of Diablo and highly recommended the former, citing its graphics and gameplay quality, but criticizing some of its sound effects. P. Stefan "Desslock" Janicki of GameSpot said that some of the gameplay elements are completely new, and appreciated both single-player and multiplayer component of the game, describing it as challenging and entertaining. On the contrary, Johnny B. of GameRevolution declared that the game has "nothing very original", although it has appreciable graphics, variety and gameplay. The game was reviewed in 2000 in Dragon #271 by Johnny L. Wilson in the "Silicon Sorcery" column. Wilson commented that "the game has beautiful art, impressive technology, near-limitless action, and a marvelous style in its use of traps". Michael Lafferty of GameZone gave it nine out of ten, saying, "With the great graphics, interactive game board and challenge, this is bound to be one of the most successful titles Westwood has ever produced." However, Eric Bratcher of NextGen said, "Nox will have a difficult time avoiding the dismissal, 'Diablo wannabe' (especially with Diablo II looming on the horizon), but those who try it will find a solid game that can stand on its own merits."

During the AIAS' 3rd Annual Interactive Achievement Awards, Nox was a finalist for the "Outstanding Achievement in Character or Story Development" and "Outstanding Achievement in Game Design" awards, both of which were ultimately given to Age of Empires II: The Age of Kings, Thief: The Dark Project (both of them in a tie), and The Sims, respectively.

Cancelled sequel
Executive producer John Hight said that Westwood was considering an expansion pack and a sequel to Nox. The expansion, titled NoxQuest, was released as a free download on August 1, 2000, and focused on the multiplayer aspects of the game. It included the last patch, updating the game to version 1.2, and featured a number of new spells invented for but not implemented in the original game.

Shortly after the 1.2 patch release, Westwood Studios (which is a subset of Electronic Arts) lost full rights of Nox to EA. EA chose to no longer support Nox, and the official Westwood servers for Clan, Ladder and Standard multiplayer were closed, as well as the online ladder ranking system.

title: Nox (video game)


text:
Dean of Canterbury

The Dean of Canterbury is the head of the Chapter of the Cathedral of Christ Church, Canterbury, England. The current office of Dean originated after the English Reformation, although Deans had also existed before this time; its immediate precursor office was the prior of the cathedral-monastery.

The current Dean, David Monteith was installed on 17 December 2022, and is the 40th Dean since the Reformation, though the position of Dean and Prior as the religious head of the community is almost identical so the line is unbroken back to the time of the foundation of the community by Saint Augustine in AD 597. The previous Dean, the Very Rev. Robert Willis, was appointed in 2001 and retired on 16 May 2022, a day before his 75th birthday.

Version on show in the Cathedral (west end)

 * Ceolnoth 820
 * Aegelwyn 830
 * Alfric
 * Kensyn
 * Maurice
 * Aelfwyn 930
 * Alsine 935
 * Aelfwyn II 951
 * Athelsine
 * Aegelnoth 984 (Æthelnoth, later Archbishop of Canterbury)
 * Egelric 1020
 * Goderic 1058

Victoria County History, 1926

 * Cuba, occurs 798
 * Beornheard, occurs 805
 * Heahfrith, occurs 813
 * Ceolnoth, resigned 833
 * Æthelwine, occurs c. 860
 * Eadmund, occurs c.871
 * Æthelnoth, resigned 1020
 * Godric, occurs 1020, 1023
 * Æthelric, resigned 1058
 * Ælfric
 * Ælfsige
 * Ælfwine
 * Ælfwine
 * Kynsige
 * Maurice

Priors of Canterbury
About a century after becoming a monastic foundation late in the 10th century, the Cathedral started to be headed by a prior rather than a dean. It would next have a dean after the Dissolution of the Monasteries.

Early modern

 * 1541–1567 Nicholas Wotton (the first dean; simultaneously Dean of York)
 * 1567–1584 Thomas Godwin
 * 1584–1597 Richard Rogers
 * 1597–1615 Thomas Nevile
 * 1615–1619 Charles Fotherby
 * 1619–1625 John Boys
 * 1625–1643 Isaac Bargrave
 * 1643 George Aglionby
 * 1643–1672 Thomas Turner
 * 1672–1689 John Tillotson
 * 1689–1691 John Sharp (afterwards Archbishop of York, 1691)
 * 1691–1704 George Hooper
 * 1704–1728 George Stanhope
 * 1728–1733 Elias Sydall
 * 1734–1760 John Lynch
 * 1760–1766 William Freind
 * 1766–1770 John Potter
 * 1770–1771 Brownlow North
 * 1771–1775 John Moore
 * 1775–1781 The Hon James Cornwallis
 * 1781–1790 George Horne
 * 1790–1792 William Buller
 * 1793–1797 Folliott Cornewall

Late modern

 * 1797–1809 Thomas Powys
 * 1809–1825 Gerrard Andrewes
 * 1825–1827 Hugh Percy
 * 1827–1845 Richard Bagot
 * 1845–1857 William Lyall
 * 1857–1871 Henry Alford
 * 1871–1895 Robert Payne Smith
 * 1895–1903 Frederic Farrar
 * 1903–1924 Henry Wace
 * 1924–1929 George Bell
 * 1929–1931 Dick Sheppard
 * 1931–1963 Hewlett Johnson
 * 1963–1976 Ian White-Thomson
 * 1976–1986 Victor de Waal
 * 1986–2000 John Simpson
 * 2000–2022 Robert Willis
 * 2022−present David Monteith

title: Dean of Canterbury


text:
User:David.Monniaux/dangerous activities disclaimer

NOTE: This is a draft proposed wording

General disclaimer - Use Wikipedia at your own risk! - Wikipedia does not give medical advice - Wikipedia does not give legal opinions - Wikipedia may contain objectionable content

 PLEASE READ THE BELOW STATEMENT CAREFULLY BEFORE LEAVING THIS PAGE

Wikipedia contains articles on many dangerous activities; however no warranty whatsoever is made that any of the articles are accurate. There is absolutely no assurance that any statement contained in an article touching on such matters is true, correct or precise. Even if a statement made is accurate, it may not apply to you or your particular situation.

In particular, Wikipedia contains articles describing:
 * chemical reactions;
 * physical experiments;
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In many cases, the activities described may be performed without undue risk only by trained individuals, often professionals in the concerned domain, and only then when proper apparatus. Furthermore, the descriptions given on Wikipedia, for the sake of illustration, may not include the necessary precautions, safety measures and operational details.

Wikipedia should not be used as a how-to guide on matters where the safety of oneself or others is involved.

None the individual contributors, system operators, developers, sponsors of Wikipedia nor anyone else connected to Wikipedia can take any responsibility for the results or consequences of any attempt to use or adopt any of the information or disinformation presented on this web site.

'Nothing on Wikipedia.org or of any project of Wikimedia Foundation Inc., should be construed as an attempt to offer or render a professional opinion.


text:
OPW

OPW may refer to:

 * Obóz Polski Walczącej (Camp of Fighting Poland)
 * Office of Public Works
 * One Pro Wrestling
 * Opuwo Airport (IATA: OPW)
 * OPW is a subsidiary of Dover Corporation
 * Osaka Pro Wrestling
 * Our Perfect Wedding, a South African wedding television show
 * GNOME Outreach Program for Women, later renamed to Outreachy

title: OPW


text:
User talk:Leonus

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Hope you like it here, and stick around.

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * To sign your posts (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).
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Culture of Greece
Culture of Greece is this week's Collaboration of the week. Please come and help it become a featured-standard article.

title: User talk:Leonus


text:
EGroups

eGroups.com was an email list management website. The site allowed users to create their own mailing lists and sign up for membership. The website provided archives of the messages as well as list management functionality. Each group also had a shared calendar, file space, group chat, and a simple way to communicate. eGroups was bought in August 2000 by Yahoo! and became a part of Yahoo! Groups, which as of the end of 2019 were under Verizon ownership.

History
The service was started by Scott Hassan in 1997 as an email list archiving service called FindMail (mimicking the name "FindLaw", a company co-founded by Martin Roscheisen). Carl Victor Page Jr., Larry Page's brother, joined the company in May 1997. When Martin Roscheisen joined as CEO in March 1998, FindMail was incorporated (in June 1998) and shifted its focus towards hosting email groups. FindMail, then renamed eGroups, grew to 250,000 users before taking a venture finance round of $810,000 from Atlas Venture in May 1998. In October 1998, with 1.2 million users (growing at 12,000 users per day), Excite offered to acquire the company for $40m but the company decided instead to take $5.1 million more investment money from Sequoia Capital. In September 1999, eGroups started work on an initial public offering but instead merged with ONElist, with 13 million users exchanging more than 1.3 billion email messages each month. In January 2000, the company raised $42 million and filed a S-1 with the SEC on March 23, 2000.

In August 2000, with 18 million users, the company was bought by Yahoo! for $432m in a stock deal and became Yahoo! Groups.

In 2019, Verizon bought Yahoo! and shut down the ability to upload new files on October 29, 2019, and removed the existence of files in the Groups on January 31, 2020. Mailing lists are still available.

On October 12, 2020, Yahoo announced it would permanently shut down Yahoo!Groups effective December 15, 2020. After that date, all groups would be deleted and the service would no longer be available.

title: EGroups


text:
Lucien Febvre

Lucien Paul Victor Febvre (, ; 22 July 1878 – 11 September 1956) was a French historian best known for the role he played in establishing the Annales School of history. He was the initial editor of the Encyclopédie française together with Anatole de Monzie.

Biography
Lucien Febvre was born and brought up in Nancy, in northeastern France. His father was a philologist, who introduced Febvre to the study of ancient texts and languages, which significantly influenced Febvre's way of thinking. At the age of twenty, Febvre went to Paris to enrol in the École Normale Supérieure. Between 1899 and 1902, he concentrated on studying history and geography. After his graduation from college, Febvre taught at a provincial lycée, where he worked on his thesis on Philip II of Spain and the Franche-Comté. After the outbreak of World War I in 1914, Febvre was forced to leave his teaching post to join the army, where he served for four years. Febvre took up a position at the University of Strasbourg in 1919 when the province was returned to France. While there, Febvre became acquainted with Marc Bloch, who shared Febvre's philosophical and political approach, which brought the two men together.

The time Febvre spent in Paris played an enormous role in reshaping his outlook on the world. Prevalent approaches to art, philosophy and modern ways of thinking strongly influenced Febvre. He embraced 20th century modernism to the extent that he later claimed to have become "untuned" from the old world and the old ways of thinking.

In his approach to history, Febvre contextualized events against the geography, psychology and culture of the times about which he wrote. History as a mere collection of historical facts no longer held any interest for Febvre.

Early work
Febvre's first thesis on Philip the Second and the Franche-Comté, published in 1911, showed the strength of this approach. In this work, Febvre tried to demonstrate the context that shows events in their true light. Febvre reconstructed the life of villagers and town dwellers in a small traditional province in France by contextualizing historical events in terms of the geography and environment of the times. By describing Franche-Comté's rivers, salt mines, vineyards and other surroundings, Febvre created an accurate and true-to-life portrayal of the atmosphere and outlook of the time. With this approach, Febvre was also able to reveal a negative influence that the French Government of the time played in the life of this province. This approach to history is known as histoire totale, or histoire tout court. Later, Febvre's work would be a paradigm for the "Annales School" and would become a new way of historical thinking.

Another influential work of Febvre dealt with Protestantism. Published in the Revue Historique in 1929, "Une question mal posée" attempted to study popular religion by trying to observe and quantify human behavior. Through an enormous amount of research, Febvre collected information from various monasteries and chapels to study the influence of new wave philosophy in religion and the clergy's approach to understanding and translating their views to lay people. Through this work, Febvre became very involved in the field of ethnology, a field of study that quantifies human behavior. Some critics consider this work to be heavily influenced by Febvre's own views of the surrounding world.

As time went by, Febvre grew increasingly suspicious of theology. He refused to see people as bound by forces beyond their control. He came to the view that religion and old ways of thinking were impractical, maybe even dangerous, in modern times. "In the general confusion of our time," Febvre wrote, "old ideas refuse to die and still find acceptance with the mass of the population." He became convinced that changing religious views and attitudes is as difficult as trying to influence the outcome of any sort of political or social upheavals. He believed that people needed to be educated in order to avoid the dangers of the old ways of thinking.

Annales
In 1929, Lucien Febvre, along with his colleague and close friend Marc Bloch, established a scholarly journal, Annales d'histoire économique et sociale (commonly known as the Annales), from which the name of their distinctive style of history was taken. The journal followed Febvre's approach to describing history. Its approach was to educate the world about the dangers of old-world thinking to avoid possible future economic and political disasters. Its purpose was to influence academic circles to "study ... the present so as to reach a profounder understanding of the past." This journal was like no other scholarly publication at that time.

The Annales was met with a very favorable critical reception and was very successful in its early years. It was in such demand that it was able to increase the frequency of its publications in 1932. However, in 1938 the journal appeared to be running its course and the publishers ceased their support.

Later life
In 1933 Febvre was appointed to a chair at the Collège de France. He published vigorously throughout the 1930s and early 40s, although World War II interrupted his work (following the Fall of France, parts of the country were occupied by Germany).

In accordance with the Nazi regime, French editorial boards were to be stripped of Jews in accordance with German racial policies; while Bloch advocated disobedience, Febvre was passionate about the survival of Annales at any cost. He believed that it was worth making concessions to keep the journal afloat and to keep France's intellectual life alive. Bloch, forced to accede, turned the Annales over to the sole editorship of Febvre, who then changed the journal's name to Mélanges d'Histoire Sociale. Bloch was forced to write for it under the pseudonym Marc Fougères.

In June 1944, Marc Bloch was executed, and so Febvre became the man who carried the Annales into the post-war period, most notably by training Fernand Braudel and co-founding the VI section of the École Pratique des Hautes Etudes, later known as École des Hautes Études en Sciences Sociales (EHESS).

Febvre died in 1956 in Saint-Amour, France, where the College Lucien Febvre and Avenue Lucien Febvre are named after him. He is also honoured in street names in Besancon and Strasbourg.

Works by Lucien Febvre

 * A Geographical Introduction to History. in collaboration with Lionel Bataillon, London 1925 (La Terre et l'évolution humaine : introduction géographique à l'histoire. Paris 1922)
 * Martin Luther, A Destiny. New York 1929. (Un destin. Martin Luther, Presses Universitaires de France, Paris, 1928)
 * Une Question Mal Posée, 1929.
 * The Rhine: Problems of History and Economics (Le Rhin: Problèmes d'histoire et d'économie, Paris 1935) Co-authored with Albert Demangeon
 * The Problem of Unbelief in the Sixteenth Century: The Religion of Rabelais. trans. Beatrice Gottlieb. Harvard University Press: Cambridge, Mass.; London, 1982. (Le problème de l'incroyance au 16e siècle : la religion de Rabelais. Albin Michel: Paris, 1942)
 * The Coming of the Book: The Impact of Printing 1450–1800, co-written with Henri-Jean Martin, London 1976. (L'apparition du livre, Paris 1958)
 * A New Kind of History (selected essays) (1973).

title: Lucien Febvre