text:
Talk:New Confucianism

"The term itself seems to have been first used in the 1970's and was not found before the 1980's."

This is, at the least, very confusing. I don't enough to alter this to make sense, but I hope someone else finds this and has something valuable to contribute.

 * I think that's an understatement; I think it does not make any sense at all.—Gniw (Wing) 04:05, 17 November 2005 (UTC)

I'm afraid the original article was a bit of a mess. I rewrote it quickly, but I corrected several outright errors and (I hope) made it a bit clearer and more informative. --Bryan12603 06:28, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Erroneous characters deleted but correct ones needed
By the way: before I re-wrote the article, the characters for "New Confucianism" were written twice (with an "or" between them), and the characters for "Neo-Confucianism" were COMPLETELY wrong. Unfortunately, I don't know yet how to enter Chinese characters into Wikipedia, so I couldn't enter the correct characters for "Neo-Confucianism." --Bryan12603 06:33, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

The section on Xiong Shili is written really well- I would suggest either a) paring down the amount that is written about his particular philosophy in general and adding it onto the page about Xiong Shili himself, or b) adding more about his views on how Confucianism should serve as a way to retain the cultural heritage of China in the face of Westernization. On a page about New Confucianism I feel as though this could be really beneficial to put everything into historical context. Mscarles (talk) 18:34, 13 May 2012 (UTC)

The section about Xiong Shili is well done—especially the discussion of the Buddhist influences found in his philosophy. Including the historical context, or some kind of historical/political background would be beneficial just for the reader to get a sense of how and why this new style of developed in a very tumultuous political era. I would also include a section on the future of New Confucianism—how has the school evolved in the present (if at all)? Katyjames91 (talk) 15:29, 14 May 2012 (UTC)User: Katyjames91

Thanks for commenting! I will provide more historical/political background for the page and a more current-events-relative input regarding New Confucian influences! sopamika (talk) 22:16, 15 May 2012 (UTC) User: sopamika

title: Talk:New Confucianism


text:
Kissel

Kissel or kisel is a simple dish with the consistency of a thick gel. It belongs to the group of cold-solidified desserts, although it can be served warm.

If the kissel is made less gel-like, it can be drunk. This is common in Belarus, Poland, Russia and Ukraine. In Finland, it is called mehukeitto.

Etymology
"Kissel" is derived from a Slavic word meaning 'sour', after a similar old Slavic dish—a leavened flour porridge (or weak sourdough) which was made from grain, most commonly oats, but any grain, including legumes like peas or lentils could be used. Bean kissels were typically not leavened, and lacked the sweetness of the modern variants.

History

Kissel is first mentioned in the Primary Chronicle, where there is a story of how it saved the city of Belgorod in Kievan Rus', besieged by nomadic Pechenegs in 997. When the food in the city became scarce, the population followed the advice of an old man, who told them to make kissel from the remnants of grain, and a sweet drink from the last mead they could find. They filled a wooden container with the kissel, and another one with the mead drink, and put those containers into the holes in the ground, and built two fake wells over them. When the Pechenegian ambassadors came into the town, they saw how the inhabitants took the food from those "wells", and the Pechenegs even were allowed to taste the kissel and mead beverage. Impressed by that show and degustation, Pechenegs decided to lift the siege and to go away, having concluded that the Ruthenians were mysteriously fed from the earth itself.

Fruit kissel
Fruit kissel is a viscous fruit dish, popular as a dessert and as a drink in Northern, Central, and Eastern Europe. It consists of the sweetened juice (or puree ) of berries. It is similar to mors, but thickened, usually with cornstarch or potato starch, but arrowroot may be used as a substitute as well. Sometimes red wine, fresh, or dried fruits are added as well. It is similar to the Danish rødgrød and German Rote Grütze. Swedish blåbärssoppa is a similarly prepared bilberry dessert. Kissel can be served either hot or cold, and sometimes paired with sweetened quark or cream. Kissel can also be served on pancakes or with ice cream.

Today, most Polish households prepare fruit kissel from instant mixes instead of the traditional way. The most popular flavours are strawberry, gooseberry, and raspberry. In Russia, the most popular flavours are cranberry, cherry, and redcurrant. Cranberry kissel (spanguolių kisielius ) is a traditional meal on Kūčios (Christmas Eve supper) in Lithuania. In Finland, kissel is often made of bilberries (since they can often be found growing wild in forests, and are thus both easy to gather and free) as well as from prunes, apricots, strawberries, etc.

The thickness varies depending on how much potato flour is used. Thin kissel is most easily consumed by drinking, while thicker versions are almost like jelly and eaten with a spoon. Rhubarb can also be used, but is often combined with strawberries to produce a sweeter flavour. Kuningatarkiisseli ('Queen's kissel') is made with mixed berries and berry juices, generally bilberries and raspberries. Prune kissel (luumukiisseli) is traditionally eaten with rice pudding at Christmas.

Vegetable kissel
Less common, vegetable is made from boiled or baked vegetables such as rhubarb, pumpkins, or beetroot.

Milk kissel
(budyń or kisiel mleczny; maitokiisseli) is a creamy pudding, similar to semolina pudding or budino. It is made from milk and potato starch (Poland ) or corn starch (Finland ) and flavoured with sugar and vanillin (or vanilla) or cocoa powder. It can also be enriched with the addition of butter and yolks.

It may be eaten as a dessert, alone, or garnished with fruit syrups, sauces, jams, fresh or dried fruit, or with cookies and biscuits.

It may also be used as an ingredient in cake creams (i.e. for karpatka or napoleonka). Most Polish households prepare milk kissel from instant mixes instead of the traditional way.

Cultural references
In Russian fairy tales, the land of marvels (similar to Cockaigne) is described as the land of "milk rivers and kissel banks". This expression became an idiom in Russian for prosperous life or "paradise on earth".

Another phrase common in Russia and Poland, "the seventh water after kissel" (siódma woda po kisielu), is used to describe a distant relative.

Recipes

 * Apple-Cranberry Kissel with Sweet Sour Cream
 * Berry Kissel recipe
 * Hot Cranberry Kissel

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Kissel


text:
Daniel S. Lamont

Daniel Scott Lamont (February 9, 1851 – July 23, 1905) was the United States Secretary of War during Grover Cleveland's second term.

Early life
Lamont was born on his family's farm in McGraw, New York (then called McGrawville) on February 9, 1851. He was a son of John B. Lamont, a merchant from Cortlandville, and Elizabeth (née Scott) Lamont. Lamont, of Scotch ancestry, had a family lineage that could be traced back as far as 1250.

He waited on customers from behind the counter in his father's store. He attended the Central Academy, successor of New York Central College, in McGraw. He attended Union College at Schenectady, New York. While attending Union College, he joined the Delta Upsilon fraternity.

Career
He was employed as engrossing clerk and assistant journal clerk in the state capitol at Albany, New York, was a clerk on the staff of the Democratic state central committee in 1872, and was chief clerk of the New York department of state from 1875 to 1882.

In 1883, through his mentor Daniel Manning, Lamont was assigned to then-New York Governor Grover Cleveland's staff as a political prompter. He became private and military secretary with the honorary rank of colonel on the governor's staff the same year, and continued in his service after Cleveland became president in 1885. Lamont also held employment with William C. Whitney in his business ventures in 1889.

From March 5, 1893, to March 5, 1897, Lamont served as United States Secretary of War in President Cleveland's cabinet. Throughout his tenure, he urged the adoption of a three-battalion infantry regiment as a part of a general modernization and strengthening of the Army. Furthermore, Lamont recommended the construction of a central hall of records to house Army archives, and urged that Congress authorize the marking of important battlefields in the manner adopted for Antietam. He also recommended that lands being used by Apache prisoners at Fort Sill be acquired for their permanent use and their prisoner status be terminated.

Later life
After his service as Secretary of War, Lamont was vice president of the Northern Pacific Railway Company from 1898 to 1904. He was also a director of numerous banks and corporations. In 1889, he went into business with William C. Whitney (Cleveland's Secretary of the Navy) and Oliver Hazard Payne (organizer of the American Tobacco trust).

In August 1904, he was considered as a candidate for Governor of New York, with The New York Times writing "Qualifying experience in large public and private affairs, ability and executive capacity already demonstrated in high office, and personal character quite above all impeachment or assault unmistakably designate Daniel S. Lamont as a fit candidate for the Democrats of New York to name for the Governorship."

Personal life
Lamont was married to Juliet Kinney and had three surviving daughters, Frances, Elizabeth (Bessie), and Katherine. A fourth daughter, Julia, died in 1902 at 18 years old. Lamont spent his early summers in the Gray Gables neighborhood in Bourne, Massachusetts, on Cape Cod, near where Grover Cleveland owned a house. Cleveland and Lamont were known to have many parties during the summers. His old house still stands. In 1888, he began spending his summers on the coast of Maine and bought a house in Sorrento known as Blueberry Lodge, which also still stands today.

Lamont died at his country home, Altamount in Millbrook, New York, on July 23, 1905, at aged 54. He was buried in Woodlawn Cemetery, in The Bronx, New York City. After his death, his widow continued the families close relationship with the Clevelands.

title: Daniel S. Lamont


text:
Anchor baby

Anchor baby is a term (regarded by some as a pejorative ) used to refer to a child born to non-citizen parents in a country that has birthright citizenship which will therefore help the parents and other family members gain legal residency. In the U.S., the term is generally used as a derogatory reference to the supposed role of the child, who automatically qualifies as an American citizen under jus soli and the rights guaranteed in the Fourteenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. The term is also often used in the context of the debate over illegal immigration to the United States. A similar term, "passport baby", has been used in Canada for children born through so-called "maternity" or "birth tourism".

History and usage
A related term, anchor child, referring in this case to "very young immigrants who will later sponsor immigration for family members who are still abroad", was used in reference to Vietnamese boat people from about 1987. In 2002 in the Irish High Court, Bill Shipsey used the term to refer to an Irish-born child whose family were his clients; in the 2003 Supreme Court judgment upholding the parents' deportation, Adrian Hardiman commented on the novelty of both the term and concomitant argument. (In Ireland jus soli citizenship was abolished in 2004.)

"Anchor baby" appeared in print in 1996, but remained relatively obscure until 2006, when it found new prominence amid the increased focus on the immigration debate in the United States. The term is generally considered pejorative. Analysis of news usage, internet links, and search engine rankings indicate that Fox News and Newsmax were pivotal in popularizing the term in the mid and late 2000s. In 2011 the American Heritage Dictionary added an entry for the term in the dictionary's new edition, which did not indicate that the term was disparaging. Following a critical blog piece by Mary Giovagnoli, the director of the Immigration Policy Center, a pro-immigration research group in Washington, the dictionary updated its online definition to indicate that the term is "offensive", similar to its entries on ethnic slurs. , the definition reads:

"n. Offensive Used as a disparaging term for a child born to a noncitizen mother in a country that grants automatic citizenship to children born on its soil, especially when the child's birthplace is thought to have been chosen in order to improve the mother's or other relatives' chances of securing eventual citizenship."

The decision to revise the definition led to some criticism from immigration opponents, such as the Center for Immigration Studies and the Federation for American Immigration Reform.

In 2012, Utah Attorney General Mark Shurtleff, in a meeting designed to promote the 2010 Utah Compact declaration as a model for a federal government approach to immigration, said that "The use of the word 'anchor baby' when we're talking about a child of God is offensive."

In 2019, The Australian Minister for Home Affairs Peter Dutton called the two children of the Biloela family "Anchor babies".

Maternity tourism industry
, Los Angeles is considered the center of the maternity tourism industry, which caters mostly to wealthy Asian women; authorities in the city there closed 14 maternity tourism "hotels" in 2013. The industry is difficult to close down since it is not illegal for a pregnant woman to travel to the U.S.

On March 3, 2015 federal agents in Los Angeles conducted a series of raids on three "multimillion-dollar birth-tourism businesses" expected to produce the "biggest federal criminal case ever against the booming 'anchor baby' industry", according to The Wall Street Journal.

Ireland's abolition of unconditional birthright citizenship
In 2005, Ireland amended its constitution to become the last country in Europe to abolish unconditional jus soli citizenship, as a direct result of concerns over birth tourism. A headline case was Chen v Home Secretary, whereby a Chinese temporary migrant living in mainland United Kingdom travelled to Belfast, Northern Ireland to give birth to her daughter for the purpose of obtaining Irish citizenship for her daughter (Ireland's jus soli law extends to all parts of the island of Ireland, including Northern Ireland, which is part of the UK). The daughter's Irish citizenship was then used by her parents to obtain permanent residence in the UK as the parents of a dependent EU citizen.

Immigration status (USA)
The Citizenship Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution indicates that "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside." The Supreme Court of the United States affirmed in United States v. Wong Kim Ark,, that the Fourteenth Amendment guarantees citizenship for nearly all individuals born in the United States, provided that their parents are foreign citizens, have permanent domicile status in the United States, and are engaging in business in the United States except performing in a diplomatic or official capacity of a foreign power.

Most constitutional scholars agree that the 14th Amendment of the U.S. Constitution provides birthright citizenship even to those born in the United States to illegal immigrants. Edward Erler, writing for the Claremont Institute in 2007, said that since the Wong Kim Ark case dealt with someone whose parents were in the United States legally, it provides no valid basis under the 14th Amendment for the practice of granting citizenship to U.S.-born children of illegal immigrants. He goes on to argue that if governmental permission for parental entry is a necessary requirement for bestowal of birthright citizenship, then children of undocumented immigrants must surely be excluded from citizenship.

However, in Plyler v. Doe,, a case involving educational entitlements for children in the United States unlawfully, Justice Brennan, writing for a five-to-four majority, held that such persons were subject to the jurisdiction of the United States and thus protected by its laws. In a footnote, he observed, "no plausible distinction with respect to Fourteenth Amendment 'jurisdiction' can be drawn between resident immigrants whose entry into the United States was lawful, and resident immigrants whose entry was unlawful." In 2006 judge James Chiun-Yue Ho, who President Donald Trump would later appoint to the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit, wrote in a law review article that with the Plyler decision "any doubt was put to rest" whether the 1898 Wong Kim Ark decision applied to illegal aliens because "all nine justices agreed that the Equal Protection Clause protects legal and illegal aliens alike.  And all nine reached that conclusion precisely because illegal aliens are 'subject to the jurisdiction' of the U.S., no less than legal aliens and U.S. citizens."

Statistics show that a significant, and rising, number of undocumented immigrants are having children in the United States, but there is mixed evidence that acquiring citizenship for the parents is their goal. According to PolitiFact, the immigration benefits of having a child born in the United States are limited. Citizen children cannot sponsor parents for entry into the country until they are 21 years of age, and if the parent had ever been in the country illegally, they would have to show they had left and not returned for at least ten years; however, pregnant and nursing mothers could receive food vouchers through the federal WIC (Women, Infants and Children) program and enroll the children in Medicaid.

Parents of citizen children who have been in the country for ten years or more can also apply for relief from deportation, though only 4,000 persons a year can receive relief status; as such, according to PolitFact, having a child in order to gain citizenship for the parents is "an extremely long-term, and uncertain, process." Approximately 88,000 legal-resident parents of US citizen children were deported in the 2000s, most for minor criminal convictions.

Incidence
Some critics of illegal immigration claim the United States' "birthright citizenship" is an incentive for illegal immigration, and that immigrants come to the country to give birth specifically so that their child will be an American citizen. The majority of children of illegal immigrants in the United States are citizens, and the number has risen. According to a Pew Hispanic Center report, an estimated 73% of children of illegal immigrants were citizens in 2008, up from 63% in 2003. A total of 3.8 million illegal immigrants had at least one child who is an American citizen. In investigating a claim by U.S. Senator Lindsey Graham, PolitiFact found mixed evidence to support the idea that citizenship was the motivating factor. PolitiFact concludes that "[t]he data suggests that the motivator for illegal immigrants is the search for work and a better economic standing over the long term, not quickie citizenship for U.S.-born babies."

There has been a growing trend, especially amongst Asian and African visitors from Hong Kong, China, South Korea, Taiwan and Nigeria to the United States, to make use of "Birth Hotels" to secure US citizenship for their child and leave open the possibility of future immigration by the parents to the United States. Pregnant women typically spend around $20,000 to stay in the facilities during their final months of pregnancy and an additional month to recuperate and await their new baby's U.S. passport. In some cases, the birth of a Canadian or American child to mainland Chinese parents is a means to circumvent the one-child policy in China; Hong Kong and the Northern Mariana Islands were also popular destinations before more restrictive local regulation impeded traffic. Some prospective mothers misrepresent their intentions of coming to the United States, a violation of U.S. immigration law and as of January 24, 2020 it became U.S. consular policy to deny B visa applications from applicants whom the consular officer has reason to believe are traveling for the primary purpose of giving birth in the United States to obtain U.S. citizenship for their child.

Controversies
On August 17, 2006, Chicago Tribune columnist Eric Zorn used the term "anchor baby" in reference to Saul Arellano, in a column critical of his mother, who had been given sanctuary at a Chicago church after evading a deportation order. After receiving two complaints, the next day Eric Zorn stated in his defense in his Chicago Tribune blog that the term had appeared in newspaper stories since 1997, "usually softened by quotations as in my column", and stated that he regretted having used the term in his column and promised not to use it again in the future.

On August 23, 2007, the San Diego, California-area North County Times came under criticism from one of its former columnists, Raoul Lowery Contreras, in a column titled "'Anchor babies' is hate speech", for allowing the term "anchor baby" to be printed in letters and opinion pieces.

On April 15, 2014, during a televised immigration debate with San Antonio, Texas, Mayor Julian Castro, then Texas State Senator Dan Patrick came under criticism when he used the term "anchor babies" while describing his own view of some of the immigration issues the state of Texas faced.

On November 14, 2014, CNN Anchor Chris Cuomo used the term on New Day: "Breaking overnight, President Obama has a plan to overhaul the immigration system on his own — an executive order on anchor babies entitling millions to stay in the U.S. Republicans say this would be war. Is the word 'shutdown' actually being used already?" Chris Cuomo later apologized for the comment saying, "OK, now, do they? Because let's think through what this issue actually is on the other side of it. This issue is called the 'anchor babies.' I used that term this morning. I shouldn't have. It's ugly and it's offensive to what it is. What it really goes to is the root of the most destructive part of our current immigration policy, you're splitting up families. They come here, here illegally, they have a baby, and the family gets split up. Maybe the kid stays. We don't have a workable formation. This goes to the heart of the Latino vote because it shows a real lack of sympathy. You have to come up with some kind of fix. So why avoid this one? Don't you have to take it on?"

In Australia in 2019, then-Home Affairs Minister Peter Dutton used "anchor babies" to label the two Australian-born children of the Murugappan asylum seeker family. This comment was criticised by University of Sydney law professor Dr. Vogl, who pointed out that unlike the United States, Australia does not have birthright citizenship, so the term "anchor baby" is not relevant to Australian law. Opposition politician Kristina Keneally, herself born in the United States, labelled the comment as an attempt to import American debates that were not relevant to Australia.

title: Anchor baby


text:
Talk:There (virtual world)

Who is writing this
The first paragraph is still rediculous. Can someone who knows how to write please fix this entry.

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 161.45.228.229 (talk) 15:38, 14 March 2007 (UTC).

First Paragraph
Does anyone else think that the first paragraph seems a little biased? I'm sure not everyone think's There is the best thing since sliced bread. 67.149.65.0

SmileyBarry 21:49, 6 March 2007 (UTC) : I edited the first paragraph to make it easier and to prevent mis-understanding the virtual world and its competitors, for the average reader.

Other entries for "There"
This should be a disambiuation page, with links to entries for "there". This cannot be the only entry people will look for; I was looking for word usage information, similer to the "it" page. Themissinglint 21:17, 1 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Since there are no articles for other meanings of "there" we'd like to reverse this disambiguation. Wikipedia is not a dictionary afterall, and the current disambiguation page just defines the word and links here.  It seemed premature to move the article.  Let's discuss this on the talk page for There if anyone disagrees.  If not, would an experienced editor please help us out?  Mescad 03:02, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

 * There is not called like it on the web currently, and is more recognized as There.com these days SmileyBarry 21:51, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

May 2004 Announcement
216.76.203.58 has removed "There Universe" as well as "Caldera Sun Times", even after others have added it back. 216.76.203.58 has also added "rumors", such as this one, found in this change:
 * In May of 2004, the company released a shocking announcement to the membership saying it would no longer develop the consumer version of There. While a small core of dedicated users continue in There, membership is for the most part dwindling as users seek other online destinations.

I hope this does not continue. --TIB 03:03, Aug 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * Turns out, the two ips who had added this information were both owned by the same guy (resolved to *.bhm.bellsouth.net) and he lives in Gadsden Alabama. It's not NPOV, he once owned the Motu Eagle (which he had edited to be "DISCONTINUED PUBLICATION"), and he is known as Evan on the SoThere forums, which you can note by how he removed ThereUniverse's forums.  Another note of interest is CST's removal, which wouldn't normally be removed, unless it was by someone who happens to not like CST.
 * Thanks, Sherlock out. --TIB 06:00, Aug 9, 2004 (UTC)

 * 213.157.97.21, who is probably the same person, just came back and added:
 * In May of 2004, the company released an announcement to the membership saying it would no longer develop the consumer version of There. While a small core of dedicated users continue in There, membership is for the most part dwindling as users seek other online destinations.
 * That version got reverted as "unsubstantiated". Part of that paragraph is true, though.  The company did make that announcement. What is unsubstantiated is the claim that the membership is dwindling.  User:Ponder 03:13, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Oh lookie what I found on that So-There forum which never got vandalized, while the there universe one was repeatedly deleted. Just thought it was interesting reading. May contain clues. Any thoughts?--TIB (talk) 04:08, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)

Copyvio?
There's an anon blanking the article and claiming copyvio. Is this vandalism or true? And also, could this be considered fair use? — Ilγαηερ   (Tαlκ)  17:58, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Never mind. It appears to be vandalism (besides the article is fair use, right? It's not pasted from the site) —  Ilγαηερ   (Tαlκ)  18:00, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * The copyvio anon is from the same IP range as the "theresucks" vandal. Guanaco 18:13, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Blocked User:203.186.154.141
I just gave User:203.186.154.141 a 24-hour block. Seemed like a reasonable response at this point. Bryan 21:52, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks. He'll be back, though.  If he continues, could you please protect this page?  [[User:supadawg|supadawg - [[Image:Bulldog.jpg|30px]]]] 22:17, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I think that may be what he wants, based on some of those edit summary comments. I've watchlisted the page, if I see an anon vandalizing it in the future I'll see if banning him at every opportunity will work and still allow the page to be edited. I'll protect if that doesn't work well, though. Bryan 22:31, 15 Aug 2004 (UTC)

There Logo
There Inc. is very particular on who is allowed to display their logo. I don't know if it's within fair use to put their logo on the page without their permission. What's wikipedia's policy on use of company logos? Ponder 02:13, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * It has the SM trademark, I believe that's the equivalent of copyright. Should we email them? [[User:supadawg|supadawg - [[Image:Bulldog.jpg|30px|Talk]]]] 02:21, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * It is perfectly within the bounds of fair use. We are using their servicemark nominatively. The use of their copyrighted work is fair use because:

 * 1) It is used here educationally to comment on There. Also, no money is being made from its use here.
 * 2) The circular logo is a simple design, and the text is not even copyrightable.
 * 3) The entire logo is used, but the work is small and could not be sold in itself.
 * 4) Its use here would have no negative effect on their business and could only draw interest towards their site. If similar use of this logo were widespread (such as by Wikipedia mirrors), it would not hurt There, Inc.

 * — Guanaco 05:57, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Vandalism
I still see the vandal's version "Caldera Suck-Times" on the page on some page loads. I tried to do a revert to fix it, but it looks like I can't edit the page right now. Is there something up with the wikipedia servers? It seems like sometimes when you load the page it's correct and sometimes you get the vandal version. :( Mescad 18:36, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * It may be that the old vandalized version is still in your cache. Try force-reloading; in Mozilla that's done by holding down the shift key when clicking the reload button, I don't know what other browsers use offhand. Bryan 23:32, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * We were clearing our caches, and people who had never visited the page before were seeing it. The problem seems to be fixed now. Ponder 23:50, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * God I can't wait for levels of protection. It will be the ultimate revenge.  The vandal stated "you have to protect this page to get me to stop", so the levels would do just that, but it wouldn't stop real wikipedians from editing.  Score. --TIB (talk) 04:03, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)
 * Vandal is using proxies.  --TIB (talk) 23:13, Aug 19, 2004 (UTC)

 * I'll ban 'em as I see 'em. Take heart in the fact that he's wasting way more of his time at this than any of us are and when it's all over he'll have nothing to show for his efforts. Bryan 00:09, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

ThereGlobal
I want to detail this list of events with commentary.

 * (cur) (last) 23:01, Aug 24, 2004 80.58.50.42 (added weblink)
 * The link to ThereGlobal was added by that IP. (RIPE ISP: Telefonica de Espana SAU)

 * (cur) (last) 02:56, Aug 25, 2004 The Inedible Bulk m (relocate ThereGlobal)
 * (cur) (last) 02:58, Aug 25, 2004 The Inedible Bulk m (There in the News - refix)
 * I moved ThereGlobal from Fansites to Newspapers

 * (cur) (last) 16:53, Aug 25, 2004 Ponder (There Based Newspapers - ThereGlobal is dormant)
 * Ponder marked ThereGlobal as dormant with "No updates since may 21st"

 * (cur) (last) 20:58, Aug 25, 2004 216.47.253.233 (my fansite is not dormant - nor is it a newssite. stop vandalising my addition please. if my site is dormant, the there site should be labeled as such too. now please stop vandalisng my websites entry)
 * Person has a different IP than the original poster and claims site to be his. (ARIN ISP: Choice One Communications Inc)
 * (In that same edit, they moved the "no updates" text up next to the external link for There.com, which I removed in my next edit Ponder 00:14, 2004 Aug 27 (UTC))

 * (cur) (last) 21:23, Aug 25, 2004 Ponder (It certainly looks like a news site with its final issue on May 21st. Not really relevant to this article anymore; external links are for people seeking current information on the topic.)
 * Ponder marks site to be deleted in the future if it remains dormant, in hidden tags.

 * (cur) (last) 15:12, Aug 26, 2004 216.47.253.233
 * Same user who claims to own ThereGlobal proceeds to attempt vandalization with Goatse image.

 * (cur) (last) 15:14, Aug 26, 2004 Grunt m (rv)
 * Grunt Reverts.

 * --TIB (talk) 23:53, Aug 26, 2004 (UTC)

 * Ponder is adding his own personal issues and repeatedly attacking & deleting thereglobal.com because it isnt updated enough to his liking. (why does he care that one of the sites listed isnt updated, when most of the other sites arent either?). He claims its because the main page hasnt been updated since may, on that logic, neither have any of the sites except for the 3 news sites listed. Including There.com. If you really want to remove thereglobal.com, be my guest, but treat them fairly and remove all the other sites listed that arent regularly updated. There are plenty of sites linked on here that havent updated in even longer time, yet Ponder thinks its his personal vendetta to remove one, but ensure that another stays...*IT IS PAINFULLY OBVIOUS THAT THIS PONDER GUY IS WORKING FOR ONE OF THE SITES OR COMPANIES LISTED, AND IS TRYING TO USE WIKIPEDIA TO FURTHER HIS OWN PERSONAL GAIN. Again, LEAVE THE PERSONAL ISSUES OUT OF WIKIPEDIA, PONDER. if you remove thereglobal.com remove the other links to pages that havent been updated since may. -- User:193.128.219.152 | talk | contributions 15:18, 2004 Aug 27 (UTC)
 * The owner of thereglobal is a citizen of the United States, while you are a citizen of the United Kingdom . Thinly veiled attempts to fool get you nowhere. --TIB (talk) 20:18, Aug 27, 2004 (UTC)

well, where the owner of the thereglobal is from is not mattering. It does seem to be, for some reason this person who keeps editing, ponder, does not like thereglobal and is making rules to it for to be updated more often, but not for other links to be updated more often (like his sites maybe?). I dont know who is from where, but who is right as someone Ponder is taking it to himself to put down rules for thereglobal.com to be listed but rules that do not apply to others (his site maybe?) it seems to me like someone using wiki to hurt his competition. Is there a person who does not have interest who could decide and apply to all and not single out this one website for deleting? this ponder person looks to be working for someone and not being honest i think. perhaps talk to bodhi to find out who is ponder and why he is not liking thereglobal. Maybe remove all of them. Or leave them all alone. Thank you. --User:61.120.16.106 | talk | contributions 21:22, Aug 27, 2004 (UTC)

 * Eeergh... I hate it when there are two people who disagree on some matter, and one of them accuses the other one of having a hidden agenda. It's annoying and very immature.  I hear second-graders doing this, and the only difference is that adults are able to express it using larger words and terser accusations.  Although I can't speak for Ponder, I'm guessing that he doesn't simply dislike thereglobal.com, it is just out of date.  As he said, people visiting Wikipedia need up-to-date information.

 * Don't you hate it when you visit a web page, and at the bottom it says "Last updated June 2nd, 1996"? It's been my experience most people do.  I think the link should be kept, but with a message saying that it's slightly out-of-date.  [[User:supadawg|supadawg - Talk]] 21:35, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * I agree. Mescad and I talked, we will leave any 'news' sites which have not been updated in less than 45 days in the "Fansites" section.  I think this is a suitable compromise.  P.S. The user changed the name of this section and I've undid that.  Bans look very fun. --TIB (talk) 00:33, Aug 28, 2004 (UTC)
 * P.S. 61.120.16.106 is in Japan. Amazing how this IP suddenly has a great opinion.  Oh wait, that's because it's a proxy.  My bad.  Evading bans? --TIB (talk) 00:39, Aug 28, 2004 (UTC)

 * TIB stuck my name in his post, so I just wanted to write to confirm that I indeed had that conversation. I think that if a site hasn't been updated for more than 45 days, it no longer qualifies as a "News" fansite.  It's still a fansite though, so we can just move it down to the Fansites section.  Anyone disagree with this policy? Mescad 02:14, 28 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Herman the Dog
There is a little edit war happening between two anons over the insertion of a link to the webcomic "Herman the Dog". The one who keeps deleting it might have personal motives for deleting "Herman", but I have to agree with the other non-involved wikipedians who have cleaned out the excess links. Wikipedia is not a link collection. External links in articles should go to references that provide some measure of encyclopedic information about the article subject. There are plenty of fuzzy cases in wikipedia, and some of them might be already in this article, but as far as "Herman" goes, I don't think a webcomic that happens to be set in There is going to add very much to the reader's knowlege of the subject. Sorry, HowlinWolf. :(  And to the anon who has been deleting the link: please stop lying in the edit summary about the changes you made.  You're not fooling anyone.  Ponder 18:53, 2004 Dec 8 (UTC)

Wikipedians group in There
Are there any Thereians who are also Wikipedians? I've created a group in There for us. :) Ponder 22:40, 2005 Apr 11 (UTC)
 * I'm on SL now more than There, but I have a lifetime account for There so I'll check it out. :) -Etoile 16:01, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Someone may want to proofread the entire article
Hi guys, I used to casually help keep up this wiki page. My There name is HowlinWolf. I don't know how to make my nickname show up here in Wikipedia.

I really appreciate that a lot of work went into the revamp of the article. At first glance, it looks very impressive. Kudos to the person or persons who wrote the new article.

But somebody may want to proofread the whole article. I would do it for you but I'm not really active in There and I'm not a member of the There-group for this page.

Just looking at the first paragraph, I noticed several typos and grammatical errors. (The second sentence is a fragment, 'vehicles' is misspelled). In the second paragraph, on what is the statement 'There is 90% user created' based? That seems like an arbitrary statement and if it is an accurate fact, which I doubt, it should be supported somehow. Otherwise it should be revised or excluded. Further in the second paragraph, the words 'dollars' and "you're" are misspelled, along with other seemingly arbitrary statements ("Since There's economy is set up this way your also able to turn it around and make money yourself").

I stopped critiquing after I looked at the second paragraph.

Overall, the whole thing looks like it could use a good once-over by somebody who is fluent in English and also knowledgeable about the topics under consideration. I would volunteer for the job but as I mentioned, I'm not a part of the group that is working on this page, nor am I active in There any longer.

I can be reached via email: chris@hermanthedog.net Howlin

Vandalism?
It seems to me that the article for There has been vandalized. Since I don't know enough about it, I'm going to have to leave it to someone else to make changes.

Maybe...
I was concerned, too. I see nothing really negative, it just seems to be a MAJOR edit...

Was the old version better? I'd like to hear some user opinions in this. -netrider6 in There Viridis

Yes, I'd call it vandalism
Yes, somebody completely redesigned the article from what it was originally. I made my comments above without reading the entire article. The grammar and spelling are horrible, it is full of sentence fragments, typos, and statements that are completely speculative.

Examples of statements that are either false, speculative, or misleading:

"There is 90% user created."

"Since There's economy is set up this way your also able to turn it around and make money yourself."

"There has entered an era where member created content becomes more and more popular each passing day."

"Since the company has begun the development of new tools for building and scripting the creativity in There will expand and advance alot more in the coming months."

"There is here to stay, thats for sure. It has always been on top and seems it'll be that way for a long time to come."

"The company which now owns There is planning on rolling out a plan to buy user created content which the community points out. Such creations like ThereOrleans have already been bought for over a million ThereBucks."

After reading the entire thing, I'm pretty sure I know who wrote this "new" article. And I believe you guys are right. This version is so poorly written that it could be considered vandalism. The article should be reverted.  Everything that was changed by 65.138.151.156 should be reverted. Howlin

'sigh
Just PICK A VERSION and stop reverting it back and forth, guys...

Personally I like the way it is now, with the Economy and etc. subheadings. --Viridis 22:38, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Please stop vandalizing
The version that was written by Joel Brown is completely inappropriate. Joel Brown (There avatar name "jb333") has a long history of trying to disrupt forums and discussions with bogus garbage. For a quick primer on what kind of person jb333 is, here is a post that he made on There's official forums (this is possibly the only honest post that Joel Brown has ever made, anywhere):

''July 17, 2005- ''My name is really Joel and I am really 28 but I don't have a phd nor have I attended ITT Tech. I in reality found There and decided I should try it out. Maybe pull a few jokes. But in turn I have turned a whole world against a fake personality. You all were lab rats and I am truly sorry for acting how I did. After I joined There I spread this alter personality though out the internet. Starting out as a child type and then growing in grammer skills and such. I don't know how you all will react but I hope you give me a bit of mercy if you would be so kind. Well that is the truth, I bet your all suprised.''

This person, jb333 aka Joel Brown, is the one who wrote the version of the There Wiki article that begins "There is an advanced Virtual World similar to Second Life. There was created by Will Harvey and Jeffery Ventrella. With over 80 people and 33 Million Dollors There has become the most advanced Virtual World to date."

The version that he wrote is deliberately misleading, completely false, and grammatically below the level of a 6 year old's writing. He has every intention of creating false perceptions about himself and about There. He admitted in his mea culpa (pasted above) that he does this type of thing as a joke.

These are facts about Joel Brown (jb333). I do not have a personal vendetta against him, I just believe that his tripe should not be allowed to be posted as the official Wikipedia article about There. Howlin

Think of the children
I don't really prefer either version, but let's pick one and STICK WITH IT.

Chris...
The article version you wish to post paints a false picture of There. It makes it sound like a graphical chat room instead of a land of unlimited potential and unlimited possibilities. There is in fact 90% user made, look around.

If you want to do There a favor then write a decent article yourself. Look at Second Life's WikiPedia article, it has many parts and paints a good picture. It goes into great detail and helps readers decide if Second Life is for them. I'd write a long article myself but There keeps pulling me back in. Unlike some...

Joel...
Your version is 100% garbage. Please stop putting it up. We can have a nice tug-o-war with this, or you can leave the page alone. I won't allow your garbage to stay up.

To anyone else who is watching this silliness, here is the explanation that Joel gave (on There's Official Forums) as to why he is putting up his distorted version:

''Well... Hmm, i'm not gonna let Wikipedia paint a false picture of There. If you're unhappy with the article rewrite it yourself, with detail and actually make it sound more then a chat room. Look at Second Life's article, someone took it into their hands to write a nice, detailed, historical article on Second Life. That would drive people to sign up, however the one people keep putting up makes it sound like There is dying or already dead. Want to help There grow? Then sell it, lie about it, and ship it in a box.''

The last time I checked, Wikipedia articles were supposed to be a compendium of facts, not a contrived lump of propaganda written to "sell" and "lie about" There.

Joel, please stop vandalizing the article. Thank you. Howlin

POV
The current version is very POV and seems like a press release put out by There.

It says it is the "most advanced" virtual world and uses lots of overly positive language. --SecretAgent 06:39, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

BRAVO for the new version
The "unvandalized" version that I kept using for my reverts was admittedly dull and vanilla. It was, however, far superior to Joel Brown's version because it consisted of facts, not speculations and exaggerations.

This new version, posted by Jo Bleaux, is very well written, factual, and logically presented. Nice job.

Howlin 23:56, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, I agree this is a very nice new article. The thing is mine focused on another side of There. The creative and artistic side of a digital world created and imagined by its residents. I didn't make There sound dull and oriented around chat... I can chat in the real world.

 * Joel, I suggest you have a look at the Wikipedia NPOV policy. Your version was, in my opinion, far from NPOV.  The NPOV tutorial is a good resource to learn how to write NPOV articles.  By the way, if you want to be taken seriously I suggest you go ahead and sign into an account and take credit for your edits.  Mescad 21:02, 31 August 2005 (UTC)

Hockey
There has "avatar hockey". Is is based on ice hockey or field hockey? If you know, please edit the link to point to the appropriate page, to help clean up the hockey dab page. Thank you. D-Rock 01:12, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

Um, Article Is A Little Dull...
Um, isn't There a bit more then a "3D Virtual World"? Yes! Someone needs to tell people what There really is, a Virtual World that is changing the way people interact and communicate on the internet. There is a user built 3D platform that is possibly the most advanced Virtual World out there. Now, i'd write an article but people would say it is biased, well There is the best, no doubt about it.

DETAILS
The beginning of the Details section says There is a chat room.

I believe this to be wildly inaccurate.

 * Another big problem in the details section is the inaccurate currency exchange info.
 * "...... Monetary transactions in There's economy are done using Therebucks, virtual currency with real world value. Therebucks can be purchased directly from There, from other members, or from any of the third party online "banks" which usually offer competitive exchange rates. Members can also sell their Therebucks to banks in exchange for real world currency, usually USD."

 * I'd like to know what online banks the writer is referring to. Also There does not support exchanging Therebucks for real world currency. I've got an email I received to back that up.

 * "Dear Soede,

 * Therebucks are not convertible to cash nor do we refund Therebuck purchases or any fees that may have accrued to your Account. There has a “No Refund” policy as outlined in our Terms of Service.

 * There Customer Support
 * Email: Help@There.com

 * [THREAD ID:1-3T0Z10]"

 * If someone familiar with editing wiki pages could clean that up I would be much obliged as I was personally very misled by the info. Soede 00:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

 * There doesn't take money. Read that it says third-party banks. http://tbux.com/ is the only one I can think of at the moment.--Viridistalk 00:47, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Screenshots section
Having a whole section for screenshots is not necessary. Pictures should sit as illustrations that supliment the article; these are pretty much showing off certain aspects of There. Pictures that I believe are extra pointless (and the reasons being) are: These pictures are also contributing to the current advert style of the article. Bob f it 12:34, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The wide pan shot (Badly photoshopped, and who's display exceeds 4000 pixels wide?)
 * The 3 emotes groups (Not much unknown here, we know what facial expressions look like... The headings in the pictures are not much good either)

Fair use rationale for Image:DanceMove.jpg
Image:DanceMove.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 05:33, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Popoutemotes01.jpg
Image:Popoutemotes01.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 23:20, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:OldWaterinHole.jpg
Image:OldWaterinHole.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 01:02, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:There logo.png
Image:There logo.png is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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BetacommandBot (talk) 07:10, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Non-disambiguation
The accompanying article has been moved to There from There (Internet service). The reasoning behind that appears at Talk:There (disambiguation). (This relates to the discussion above at . --Jerzy•t 20:04, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Now There's a marketing opportunity
why is this page about some website and not about the location-which-is-not-here? If i start a company called Here, can i change the Here page to spam my stuff as well? No? Well if someone can do it to this page then why the £$&$^ not that other page? Priorities, people, this should be at There (website) or something. Totnesmartin (talk) 19:17, 2 February 2009 (UTC)

Silly comments
I have deleted some silly comments - these will probably continue for the near future due to the closure. - AliV —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.69.48.60 (talk) 22:31, 10 March 2010 (UTC)

Mistargeted wikilink MMORPGs
Under Details, there exists the inter-wikilink written (entered explicitly) as MMORPGs. This should either be tagged MMOG, or sent to the proper place Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game.

Someone else do it please. The fighting in here is confusing me.Tgm1024 (talk) 22:40, 21 November 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:There (virtual world)


text:
Bovina

Bovina may refer to:

 * Bovina, Colorado
 * Bovina, Mississippi
 * Bovina, New York
 * Bovina, Texas
 * Bovina, Wisconsin

in science:
 * Bovina (subtribe), a group of hoofed mammals containing bison and cattle

title: Bovina


text:
Embassy Row

Embassy Row is the informal name for a section of Northwest Washington, D.C., with a high concentration of embassies, diplomatic missions, and diplomatic residences. It spans Massachusetts Avenue N.W. between 18th and 35th street, bounded by Scott Circle to the south and the United States Naval Observatory to the north; the term is often applied to nearby streets and neighborhoods that also host diplomatic buildings, such as Kalorama.

Of the 177 diplomatic missions in the city, the majority are located on or near Embassy Row, including those of Italy, Australia, India, Greece, Egypt, Ireland, Japan, and the United Kingdom. Due to the large number of well-preserved Gilded Age estates and townhouses, many of which house diplomatic missions or dignitaries, Embassy Row has been protected as part of the Massachusetts Avenue Historic District. Its historic and multicultural character has also made the area a center of tourism and local cultural life.

History
Considered Washington's premier residential address in the late 19th and early 20th centuries, Massachusetts Avenue became known for its numerous mansions housing the city's social and political elites. Consequently, the segment between Scott Circle and Sheridan Circle gained the nickname "Millionaires' Row".

The Great Depression of 1929 led many to sell their homes; the often illustrious and expansive estates were well-suited for housing diplomatic missions as well as lodges of social clubs, giving Embassy Row its present name and identity. The relocation to Embassy Row of diplomatic representations, many of which had been established in Meridian Hill in previous decades, was further catalyzed by the construction of the British Embassy, commissioned in 1925 and completed in 1930, and the Japanese Embassy, built in 1931. The greatest number of embassies and chanceries moved to Embassy Row and the neighboring Kalorama neighborhood in the 1940s and early 1950s.

On the southeastern section of the row, between Scott Circle and Dupont Circle, many individual houses and mansions were replaced by larger office or apartment buildings between the 1930s and the 1970s. More recently, several prominent think tanks have clustered in that area, which has occasionally been referred to as Think Tank Row.

Many of Embassy Row's diplomatic buildings open to the public once a year in May, an initiative nicknamed Passport DC. This event was started in 2007 by the embassies of member states of the European Union, and extended in 2008 to other countries around the world under coordination by Cultural Tourism DC. Within this program, the EU embassies still open on a separate day, labelled EU Open House. A separate program, the Embassy Series, started in 1994 and coordinates concerts organized in the embassy buildings.

Embassy Row is protected as the Massachusetts Avenue Historic District, created in 1974 following controversy about the demolition of historic townhouses on 1722-28 Massachusetts Ave NW. Many of its notable buildings are listed in the DC Inventory of Historic Sites. Because few historic buildings remain on Scott Circle, the eastern boundary of the Historic District was set on 17th Street NW, but, since three embassies are located there and none farther east, Scott Circle is included in this article's definition of Embassy Row. The Western boundary used here is identical to that of the Historic District, namely Observatory Circle. However, some (e.g. real estate professionals) describe Embassy Row as extending as far west as Wisconsin Avenue NW.

From Scott Circle to Sheridan Circle
This section of Massachusetts Avenue was the one known as the "Millionaires' Row" of Washington, D.C., in the late 19th and early 20th century.

North Side
 * 1499 Massachusetts Ave NW: Post Massachusetts Avenue apartment building (arch. Esocoff & Associates, 2002)
 * 1515 Massachusetts Ave NW: American Association for the Advancement of Science building (arch. Faulkner, Fryer and Vanderpool, 1956), now Embassy of Tunisia
 * 1500 Rhode Island Ave NW: Brodhead-Bell-Morton Mansion, now the Embassy of Hungary (arch. John Fraser, 1879; remodeled by John Russell Pope, 1912)
 * 1 Scott Circle NW: General Scott Apartments (arch. Robert O. Sholz, 1942)
 * 1601 Massachusetts Ave NW: Embassy of Australia (arch. Bates, Smart & McCutcheon, 1965)
 * 1617 Massachusetts Ave NW: Daniel C. Stapleton House (arch. Clarke Waggaman, 1917), now annex of the Embassy of the Philippines
 * 1619 Massachusetts Ave NW: Forest Industries building (arch. Keyes, Lesbridge & Condon, 1961), now Benjamin T. Rome Building of Johns Hopkins University
 * 1625 Massachusetts Ave NW: Airline Pilots Association building (arch. Vlastimil Koubek, 1972), now also Washington campus of Johns Hopkins Carey Business School
 * 1701 Massachusetts Ave NW: The Bay State apartment building (arch. Robert O. Sholz, 1939)
 * 1711 Massachusetts Ave NW: Boston House apartment building (arch. Berla & Abel, 1950)
 * 1717 Massachusetts Ave NW: Bernstein-Offit building of Johns Hopkins University; the upper two floors used to host the embassy of the German Democratic Republic (arch. Cooper & Auerback, 1964)
 * 1727 Massachusetts Ave NW: The Winthrop apartment building (arch. Alvin L. Aubinoe, 1940)
 * 1775 Massachusetts Ave NW: Brookings Institution main building (arch. Faulkner, Kingsbury & Stenhouse, 1960)
 * 1779 Massachusetts Ave NW: Carnegie Endowment for International Peace (arch. Smith, Hinchman & Gryll, 1989), also hosting the Embassy of Papua New Guinea
 * 1789 Massachusetts Ave NW (numbered 1785 until 2016): McCormick Apartments (arch. Jules Henri de Sibour, 1917), now American Enterprise Institute
 * 1801 Massachusetts Ave NW: Herbert Wadsworth House (arch. George Cary, 1902), now the Sulgrave Club
 * 15 Dupont Circle NW: Robert W. Patterson House (arch. Stanford White, 1902), now Ampeer Dupont Circle apartments
 * 11 Dupont Circle NW: office building (1974), home of the Peterson Institute for International Economics until 2001
 * 1500 New Hampshire Ave NW: Dupont Circle Hotel (1950)
 * 1501 Connecticut Ave NW: commercial building (1923), now Starbucks Coffee
 * 1913 Massachusetts Ave NW: Dupont Circle Branch of the Riggs National Bank (arch. George Nicholas Ray, 1923), now PNC
 * 2001 Massachusetts Ave NW: apartment house (arch. Gertrude Sawyer, 1935), now Kossuth House of the Hungarian Reformed Federation of America (1935)
 * 2007 Massachusetts Ave NW: Horace A. Taylor House (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1901)
 * 2009 Massachusetts Ave NW: Hershell Main House, later Alice Roosevelt Longworth house (built 1881, front rebuilt 1910), now the Washington Legal Foundation
 * 2015 Massachusetts Ave NW: Embassy Row Hotel, rebranded The Ven Embassy Row in late 2020 (arch. Fischer and Elmore, 1971)
 * 2025 Massachusetts Ave NW: Samuel M. Bryan House (arch. W. Bruce Gray, 1885), now the Urban Alliance Foundation
 * 2027 Massachusetts Ave NW: House (1911), now the Religious Action Center of Reform Judaism
 * 1600 21st Street NW: D. Clinch Phillips House (arch. Hornblower & Marshall, 1897), now the Phillips Collection
 * 2107 Massachusetts Ave NW: T. Morris Murray House (1901), now Embassy of India
 * 2121 Massachusetts Ave NW: Richard T. Townsend House (arch. Carrère and Hastings, 1901), now the Cosmos Club
 * 2131 Massachusetts Ave NW: George W. Barrie House (arch. Marsh & Peter, 1905), now Embassy of Estonia
 * 2201 Massachusetts Ave NW: Frederick A. Miller House (arch. Paul J. Pelz, 1901)
 * 2203 Massachusetts Ave NW: Emeline D. Lovett House (arch. Alexander Millar, 1890)
 * 2205 Massachusetts Ave NW: Anna Jenness-Miller House (arch. Waddy Wood, 1920), now the National Society Daughters of the American Colonists
 * 2207 Massachusetts Ave NW: townhouse (arch. Louis D. Meline, 1902), now Embassy of Turkmenistan
 * 2209 Massachusetts Ave NW: townhouse (arch. Wyeth & Cresson, 1911), now Embassy of Paraguay
 * 2211 Massachusetts Ave NW: Irene Rucker Sheridan House (arch. Wood, Donn & Deming, 1904)
 * 2217 Massachusetts Ave NW: Embassy of Greece (arch. Angelos Demetriou, 2006)
 * 2221 Massachusetts Ave NW: Hennen Jennings House (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1906), now residence of the Ambassador of Greece

South Side
 * 1500 Massachusetts Ave NW: 1500 Massachusetts apartment building (1952)
 * 1616 Rhode Island Ave NW: Center for Strategic and International Studies (arch. Hickok Cole, 2013)
 * 1600 Massachusetts Ave NW: Embassy of the Philippines (1993)
 * 1700 Massachusetts Ave NW: Emily J. Wilkins House (arch. Jules Henri de Sibour, 1909), now Embassy of Peru
 * 1708 Massachusetts Ave NW: Henry C. Nevins House (arch. Harvey L. Page, 1891), now Embassy of Trinidad and Tobago
 * 1720 Massachusetts Ave NW: town house, now Stephanie Tubbs Jones building of the Congressional Black Caucus Foundation
 * 1724 Massachusetts Ave NW: Embassy of Colombia (1981)
 * 1732 Massachusetts Ave NW: J.C. McGuire House (arch. Glenn Brown, 1889), now Embassy of Chile
 * 1736 Massachusetts Ave NW: now Consular section of the Embassy of Chile
 * 1740 Massachusetts Ave NW: Paul H. Nitze School of Advanced International Studies (1962)
 * 1746 Massachusetts Ave NW: Clarence Moore House (arch. Jules Henri de Sibour, 1909), now Embassy of Uzbekistan
 * 1750 Massachusetts Ave NW: Peterson Institute for International Economics (arch. James von Klemperer for Kohn Pedersen Fox, 2001)
 * 1776 Massachusetts Ave NW: office building (1969)
 * 1780 Massachusetts Ave NW: Ingalls House (arch. Jules Henri de Sibour, 1912), now office of the President of the Brookings Institution
 * 1800 Massachusetts Ave NW: office building (1979), now the Service Employees International Union
 * 1369 Connecticut Ave NW: U.S. Trust Company building (arch. Jules Henri de Sibour, 1912), now SunTrust branch
 * 1350 Connecticut Ave NW: Dupont Circle Building (arch. Mihran Mesrobian, 1931)
 * 21 Dupont Circle NW: Euram Building (arch. Hartman-Cox, 1972)
 * 1 Dupont Circle NW: office building (arch. Vlastimil Koubek, 1968), now the American Council on Education
 * 2000 P Street NW: The Toronto apartment building (arch. Albert H. Beers, 1908)
 * 2000 Massachusetts Ave NW: James G. Blaine Mansion (arch. George Fraser, 1881), now Phillips & Cohen LLP
 * 2012 Massachusetts Ave NW: Joseph Beale House (arch. Glenn Brown, 1897), now Embassy of Portugal
 * 2020 Massachusetts Ave NW: Walsh-McLean House (arch. Henry Andersen, 1903), now Embassy of Indonesia
 * 2100 Massachusetts Ave NW: Fairfax Hotel (arch. B. Stanley Simmons, 1927)
 * 2118 Massachusetts Ave NW: Larz Anderson House (arch. Arthur Little & Herbert W. C. Browne, 1905), now Society of the Cincinnati
 * 2122 Massachusetts Ave NW: State House apartment building (arch. Matthew G. Lepley, 1951)
 * 2200 Massachusetts Ave NW: Alexander Stewart House (arch. Jules Henri de Sibour, 1909), now Embassy of Luxembourg
 * 2202 Massachusetts Ave NW: townhouse (1914), now office of the Defense Attaché of the Embassy of Turkey
 * 2208 Massachusetts Ave NW: townhouse (arch. Louis D. Meline, 1900), now Embassy of Togo
 * 2210 Massachusetts Ave NW: townhouse (arch. Louis D. Meline, 1901), now Embassy of Sudan
 * 2212 Massachusetts Ave NW: townhouse (arch. Louis D. Meline, 1898)
 * 2214-16 Massachusetts Ave NW: twin townhouses (arch. George Nicholas Ray, 1931)
 * 2220 Massachusetts Ave NW: townhouse (arch. George Nicholas Ray, 1914), now Embassy of the Bahamas
 * 2228 Massachusetts Ave NW: townhouse (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr. & Laussat Roger, 1903), now office of the Defense and Military Attaché of the Embassy of Greece
 * 2230 Massachusetts Ave NW: James C. Hooe House (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1907)
 * 2232 Massachusetts Ave NW: townhouse (1900), now Economic and Commercial Bureau of the Embassy of Egypt
 * 2234 Massachusetts Ave NW: Henrietta M. Halliday House (arch. William Penn Cresson), 1908), now Embassy of Ireland
 * 1607 23rd St NW: Frank Ellis House (arch. Carrère and Hastings, 1907), now Embassy of Romania

From Sheridan Circle to Observatory Circle
North Side
 * 2223 Massachusetts Ave NW: American Society of International Law (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1907)
 * 2225 R St NW: Embassy of Armenia
 * 2249 R St NW: C. Peyton Russell House (arch. Nathan C. Wyeth, 1908), now Embassy of Kenya
 * 2251 R St NW: Frederick A. Keep House (arch. Nathan C. Wyeth, 1906), now residence of the Ambassador of Vietnam
 * 2253 R St NW: Charles L. Fitzhugh House (arch. Waddy Wood, 1904), now residence of the Ambassador of the Philippines
 * 2301 Massachusetts Ave NW: Joseph Beale House (arch. Glenn Brown, 1909), now residence of the Ambassador of Egypt
 * 2305 Massachusetts Ave NW: Sarah S. Wyeth House (arch. Nathan C. Wyeth, 1909), now residence of the Ambassador of Chile
 * 2311 Massachusetts Ave NW: Gibson Fahnestock House (arch. Nathan C. Wyeth, 1910), embassy of the Republic of China from 1952 to 1978, now Embassy of Haiti
 * 2315 Massachusetts Ave NW: Francis B. Moran House (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1909), formerly embassy of Persia/Iran (1935–43) then embassy of Pakistan (1951–2011)
 * 2339 Massachusetts Ave NW: Wendell Mansions apartment building (arch. Edward Hughes Glidden, 1906)
 * 2343 Massachusetts Ave NW: Former chancery of the embassy of Austria (arch. George Nicholas Ray, 1930), now Embassy of Croatia
 * 2349 Massachusetts Ave NW: Christian Hauge House (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1906), later embassy of Czechoslovakia (1929–72) and now Embassy of Cameroon
 * 2347 S Street NW: Owsley House (arch. Ward Brown, 1929), now residence of the Ambassador of the Netherlands
 * 2401 Massachusetts Ave NW: Former chancery of the Embassy of Malaysia (1969), now Embassy of Chad
 * 2419 Massachusetts Ave NW: Louis Arthur Coolidge House (arch. William Penn Cresson & Nathan C. Wyeth, 1906), now Embassy of Zambia
 * 2433 Massachusetts Ave NW: Harry Wardman House (arch. Mihran Mesrobian, 1934), now Embassy of the Marshall Islands
 * 2443 Massachusetts Ave NW: Residence of the Ambassador of Venezuela (arch. Chester A. Patterson, 1939)
 * 2501 Massachusetts Ave NW: C.H. Harlow House (arch. Waddy Wood, 1916), later home of Robert A. Taft
 * 2511 Massachusetts Ave NW: house (1942), now Embassy of Lesotho
 * 2525 Massachusetts Ave NW: Embassy of Turkey (arch. Shalom Baranes Associates, 1999)
 * 2535 Massachusetts Ave NW: house (1953), now Embassy of Belize
 * 2551 Massachusetts Ave NW: Islamic Center of Washington (arch. Mario Rossi in association with Irwin S. Porter & Sons, 1957)
 * 2929 Massachusetts Ave NW: Maie H. Williams House (arch. Clarke Waggaman, 1918)
 * 3003 Massachusetts Ave NW: Alanson B. Houghton House (arch. Frederick H. Brooke, 1935), former residence of the Ambassador of Iran
 * 3005 Massachusetts Ave NW: former Embassy of Iran (1959)
 * 3051 Massachusetts Ave NW: Embassy of South Africa (1936, expanded 1964)
 * 3301 Massachusetts Ave NW: Embassy of Finland (arch. Mikko Heikkinen and Markku Komonen, 1994)
 * 3339 Massachusetts Ave NW: Embassy of the Holy See (arch. Frederick V. Murphy, 1938)
 * 3401 Massachusetts Ave NW: Residence of the Ambassador of Norway (arch. John J. Whelan, 1931)
 * 3415 Massachusetts Ave NW: Joseph W. Babcock House (arch. Arthur B. Heaton, 1912), now Embassy of Cape Verde and Embassy of Timor-Leste
 * 3417 Massachusetts Ave NW: Soka Gakkai International-USA Buddhist Center (arch. William Hellmuth, 2008)
 * 3421 Massachusetts Ave NW: house (1927), now Embassy of Iraq

South Side
 * 1606 23rd St NW: Edward H. Everett House (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1914), now residence of the Ambassador of Turkey
 * 2304 Massachusetts Ave NW: house (arch. Louis D. Meline, 1901), now part of the Embassy of Latvia
 * 2306 Massachusetts Ave NW: Alice Pike Barney House (arch. Waddy Wood, 1902), now Embassy of Latvia
 * 2320 Massachusetts Ave NW: detached house (arch. Frank Russell White, 1918), now Consular section of the Embassy of South Korea
 * 2324 Massachusetts Ave NW: town house (arch. Louis D. Meline, 1902), now annex of the Embassy of Greece
 * 2328 Massachusetts Ave NW: town house (arch. Donn and Deming, 1922)
 * 2332-38 Massachusetts Ave NW: row of four townhouses (arch. Nicholas T. Haller, 1899)
 * 2340 Massachusetts Ave NW: townhouse (1914), now Embassy of Burkina Faso
 * 2344 Massachusetts Ave NW: George Wallace William Hanger House (arch. William James Palmer, 1907)
 * 2346 Massachusetts Ave NW: George Cabot Lodge House (arch. Wood, Donn & Deming, 1905)
 * 2360 Massachusetts Ave NW: townhouse (arch. William James Palmer, 1911), now Embassy of Kyrgyzstan
 * 2370 Massachusetts Ave NW: Alice W.B. Stanley House (arch. Smith & Edwards, 1930), now Korean Cultural Center
 * 2374 Massachusetts Ave NW: townhouse (1921), now Embassy of Madagascar
 * 2406 Massachusetts Ave NW: Nellie and Isabelle Sedgeley House (arch. Nathan C. Wyeth, 1911), now Cultural Office of the Embassy of the UAE
 * 2408 Massachusetts Ave NW: Granville Roland Fortescue House (arch. Nathan C. Wyeth, 1911), now Embassy of Malawi
 * 2412: Frederick Atherton House (arch. Nathan C. Wyeth and Francis P. Sullivan, 1930)
 * 2424 Massachusetts Ave NW: Embassy of Cote d'Ivoire (arch. Wanchul Lee, 2004)
 * 2432 Massachusetts Ave NW: house (1951), now residence of the Ambassador of Algeria
 * 2440 Massachusetts Ave NW: Charles Mason Remey House (arch. Smith & Edwards, c. 1930), now Permanent mission of Mexico to the OAS
 * 2450 Massachusetts Ave NW: Embassy of South Korea (arch. Horace W. Peaslee, 1953)
 * 2500 Massachusetts Ave NW: apartment house (arch. Louis E. Sholtes, 1922)
 * 2516 Massachusetts Ave NW: Old Ambassador's Residence of the Embassy of Japan (arch. Delano & Aldrich, 1931)
 * 2520 Massachusetts Ave NW: Chancery of the Embassy of Japan (arch. Robert B. Anderson, 1986)
 * 2536 Massachusetts Ave NW: Chancery Annex of the Embassy of India (1954)
 * 2540 Massachusetts Ave NW: The Army and Navy apartment house (arch. Harry L. Edwards, 1925)
 * 2558 Massachusetts Ave NW: Spanish Mission to the Organization of American States (1926)
 * 3000 Whitehaven St NW: Embassy of Italy (arch. Piero Sartogo, 2000)
 * 3025 Whitehaven St NW: Embassy of Sri Lanka
 * 3200 Whitehaven St NW: Embassy of Denmark (1960)
 * 3000 Massachusetts Ave NW: Robert S. McCormick House (arch. John Russell Pope, 1928), now residence of the Ambassador of Brazil
 * 3006 Massachusetts Ave NW: Embassy of Brazil (arch. Olavo Redig de Campos, 1971)
 * 3014 Massachusetts Ave NW: house (1941), now Embassy of Bolivia
 * 3100 Massachusetts Ave NW: Embassy of the United Kingdom (arch. Edwin Lutyens, 1931); chancery building (arch. Eric Bedford) added in the late 1950s.
 * 3450 Massachusetts Ave NW: United States Naval Observatory

Statuary
The monumental setting of the Row has favored the erection of many memorials and statues. They are erected either on private grounds, many of them by the embassies to showcase a prominent national figure, or on public (federal) land following an Act of Congress, including the successive Circles and several triangular parks created by the intersections between the diagonal avenue and the L'Enfant Plan grid. A special case is the statue of Winston Churchill, which has one foot on the grounds of the British Embassy and the other on federal land to symbolize the UK-US alliance.
 * Samuel Hahnemann Monument on the eastern side of Scott Circle, by Charles Henry Niehaus (1900)
 * Equestrian statue of Winfield Scott, by Henry Kirke Brown (1874)
 * the Daniel Webster Memorial, by Gaetano Trentanove (1900)
 * a modern bust of Miguel Grau in front of the Embassy of Peru (2011)
 * a bust of Bernardo O'Higgins by Galvarino Ponce Morel, in front of the Embassy of Chile (2009)
 * the Dupont Circle Fountain, by Daniel Chester French (1920)
 * a statue of Hindu goddess Saraswati by a Balinese sculpting team, on the grounds of the Indonesian Embassy, with a group of three children including a young Barack Obama in front (2013)
 * the Mahatma Gandhi Memorial by Gautam Pal, in front of the Indian Embassy (2000)
 * a bronze cast of George Washington by Jean-Antoine Houdon, in front of the Society of the Cincinnati (2008). (This statue was moved away in June 2020. )
 * the statue of Tomas Masaryk, by Vincenc Makovský (1937, cast 1968, erected 2002)
 * a copy in reduced size of the 1969 bronze statue of Eleftherios Venizelos by Yannis Pappas, now in Freedom Park in Athens, erected in front of the Greek Embassy (2009)
 * the statue of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk by Jeffery L. Hall, in front of the Turkish Ambassador's residence (2013)
 * Equestrian statue of Philip Sheridan, by Gutzon Borglum (1908)
 * the statue of Philip Jaisohn in front of the South Korean Consular Section, by Jae-kil Lee (2008)
 * a bust of Orlando Letelier commemorating his assassination, by Barry Woods Johnston, in front of the residence of the Ambassador of Chile (2018)
 * the statue of St Jerome by Ivan Meštrović, in front of the Croatian Embassy (1954, relocated c. 1998)
 * a cast of Allow Me by Seward Johnson, in front of the house on 2346 Massachusetts Ave NW (1984)
 * the statue of Robert Emmet, by Jerome Connor (1916, relocated 1966)
 * an abstract sculpture by Dong-koo Yun in front of the Korean Embassy (2000)
 * another statue of Mustafa Kemal Atatürk, this one cast in fiberglass by Ragıp Çiçen, donated by İbrahim Fırtına and standing inside the Turkish Embassy (2004)
 * the statue of Winston Churchill by William McVey, in front of the British Embassy (1966)
 * the statue of Nelson Mandela by Jean Doyle, in front of the South African Embassy (2013)
 * the monument to Khalil Gibran, by Gordon S. Kray (1991)
 * the statue of Crown Princess Martha Louise of Norway by Kirsten Kokkin, in front of the Norwegian Embassy (2005)

Other embassies in Washington, D.C.
In the immediate vicinity of Embassy Row, many other embassies and diplomatic residences are located within one or two blocks of Massachusetts Avenue on cross streets, particularly R, S, and 22nd Streets NW near Sheridan Circle, and in the Kalorama neighborhood north of Embassy Row. The section of New Hampshire Avenue NW north of Dupont Circle alone is home to the embassies of Argentina, Belarus, Botswana, the Democratic Republic of the Congo, Eritrea, Eswatini, Grenada, Jamaica, Montenegro, Mozambique, Embassy of Namibia in Washington, D.C., Nicaragua, Rwanda, and Zimbabwe.

In the early days of Washington, D.C., most diplomats and ambassadors lived on or around Lafayette Square. The first purpose-designed embassy building in Washington was the embassy of the United Kingdom on 1300 Connecticut Avenue, immediately south of Embassy Row, built in 1872 by Sir Edward Thornton on John Fraser's design, and demolished in 1931. Thornton's choice of location, at a time when Dupont Circle was still almost entirely undeveloped, may be considered the origin of Embassy Row as a diplomatic neighborhood.

In the first three decades of the 20th century, several European legations gathered farther northeast, on a section of 16th Street near Meridian Hill Park. This area was specifically developed by local resident Mary Foote Henderson to attract embassies, and she even aimed at having the residences of the U.S. president and vice-president relocated there. However, the neighborhood was hit hard by the Great Depression, and Embassy Row became a comparatively more attractive location for diplomats in the following decade. Former embassy buildings in the Meridian Hill area include those of France (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1907, now the Council for Professional Recognition); Mexico (arch. Nathan C. Wyeth, 1911, now the Mexican Cultural Institute); the Netherlands (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1922, now the Embassy of Ecuador); Spain (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1923 and addition by Jules Henri de Sibour, 1927; now the Spain-USA Foundation); Egypt (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1924, now Meridian Hall); Italy (arch. Warren and Wetmore, 1925, currently under redevelopment); and Brazil (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1927, later embassy of Hungary and now the Josephine Butler Parks Center). The embassies of Cuba (arch. Macneil & Macneil, 1918), Lithuania (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1909), and Poland (arch. George Oakley Totten Jr., 1910) are still located in the Meridian Hill neighborhood. A bit further up 16th Street, the Embassy Building No. 10, built in the late 1920s, never actually served as an embassy despite being designed as one.

A high-security enclave in Van Ness, one mile north of the Naval Observatory on the federally owned former grounds of the National Bureau of Standards in Cleveland Park, was developed from 1968 as the International Chancery Center. It is home to the embassies of Austria, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Brunei, China, Egypt, Ethiopia, Ghana, Israel, Jordan, Kuwait, Malaysia, Morocco, Monaco, Nigeria, Pakistan, Singapore, Slovakia, and the United Arab Emirates.

A number of other embassies are scattered south of Massachusetts Avenue and closer to the National Mall, notably those of Canada, Mexico, Spain, Saudi Arabia, and the European Union. Still others are located in or around Georgetown, such as those of France, Germany, Russia, Sweden, Thailand, Ukraine, and Venezuela. The Caribbean Chancery on 3216 New Mexico Avenue NW hosts the embassies of four English-speaking Caribbean nations.

title: Embassy Row


text:
George River

George River may refer to:

 * George River (Quebec), Nunavik, Canada
 * Georges River, Nova Scotia, Canada
 * George River (Southland), New Zealand
 * George River (Marlborough), New Zealand
 * George River (Western Australia)
 * George River (Alaska), a river of Alaska

title: George River