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Talk:Pravda

Waste of Time
I came to this site some thirty minutes ago to find a few pieces of readily accessible information. This process should have taken me perhaps five minutes tops. Now after half an hour I'm getting out. I essentially wasted 25 minutes trying to clean up this pathetic mess of hopeless articles written by imbeciles. I don't see as visitors to this site should have to do this all the time. I reckon the people in charge here are getting paid very well, thank you. They should concentrate on cleaning up their own articles and not waste everyone's resources with their petty pre-puberty internecine wars.

Adjusting articles after the fact is something all should do from time to time. But it is not and cannot be something which because of the appalling lack of quality of these articles dominates on a ratio of 5/1. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.221.88.129 (talk) 05:02, 4 April 2009 (UTC)

^^^^ This entry is awesome, and should be automatically included at the beginning of ALL Wikipedia talk pages ^^^^ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.117.85.61 (talk) 03:53, 1 December 2020 (UTC)

The place of origin
It looks crasy: "the leading newspaper of the Soviet Union" ... "was started in 1912 in Vienna, Austria" heh :) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.141.202.2 (talk) 19:28, 3 October 2008 (UTC)

Finding some sources
If someone could track down ISBN 0820450081 or ISBN 0807611867 it could be useful. Matthewmayer 23:02, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Question about date of origin
This sentence is confusing (and ungrammatical): "Pravda was founded as a newspaper for workers in 1912, the Bolsheviks started legal publication of the newspaper in St. Petersburg on April 22, 1913."
 * Was Pravda started in 1912 or 1913? - Maybe what was meant was that it was unofficially published in 1912, then first officially published in 1913?—Mateo SA 05:27, 6 Aug 2004 (UTC) Talk

needs a mention of Iskra (spark)
The article needs a mention of the 1st Russian communist/socialist newspaper — Iskra (spark, Russian: Искра). It's a strange thing that the referenced article "The spark that lit the revolution" doesn't contain any references to Iskra as well. BACbKA 08:40, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Reading between the lines in Pravda
''Although Pravda's content was tightly controlled by its editors, it was not impossible to discern truth from the newspaper. Many readers became sophisticated in guessing at the truth. The phrasing of a news item was often an important clue when guessing about the real meaning. The most newsworthy items were usually mentioned briefly and placed in obscure sections of the paper; oftentimes, the back pages of the paper contained more real news than the front pages. Bad news that happened inside the Soviet Union was usually not mentioned directly; instead, the paper would fabricate a series of similiar disasters occurring in other nations.''

Any specific examples of this? Ambi 03:12, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * The most known one would be the ecology issue. Instead of talking about the Soviet cities contamination, Pravda would address the ecology in Tokio and New York, saying that the policemen in these cities must wear gas masks in order not to faint (I remember reading this myself, and I don't know to date how close to truth this report by Pravda was!) On subtler covert channel reading of Pravda news, a well-known St. Petersburg mathematician and dissident, late Revolt Pimenov, (prosecuted by the Soviet regime during the Brezhnev times; later (during Gorbachev times) became an elected into the people deputy counsil), suggested to his friends giving a special course as to how to determine the next swing in the course of the communist "party line" by interpreting the mere order of the Politbureau members as printed in the daily Pravda issue. (When falling out of favor, they were demoted down the list, and hence the ministries/ideas they were associated got lower priorities). BACbKA 08:25, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * How is this different than say US reporting on ecology? Anyone who compares US corporate coverage of say global warming versus news coverage in the rest of the industrialized world, as well as polls showing that the US population believes what the US media is often reporting, which is different than coverage in the rest of the world, could say the same thing.  Most people in the US do not know how much antipathy has built up in other industrialized countries against the US for not signing Kyoto, despite that being lightly covered.  Ruy Lopez 01:20, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry...I just don't see the relevance of the analogy. There's a big leap between what BACbKA reported and your average, Murdoch press, biased reporting, which appears to be what you're talking about. Ambi 02:34, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * There is a big leap between what BACbKA claims and your average American corporate press. I have never seen anything as far-off as saying policemen in New York and Tokyo must wear gas masks in order not to faint.  Actually, it would have been true to have said cities like Los Angeles were massively polluted decades ago (they even had smog forecasts during the evening news weather reports), but I can't imagine Pravda reporting that as news.  If it did appear it was probably a joke in an editorial or something ("If they don't clear up pollution in LA soon they'll have to wear gas masks, haha").

 * As far as wacky American reporting, why limit it to media owned by Murdoch and the like? Let's look at an example from Time Magazine from two years ago.  The title -"Nepal: Return to Year Zero - Nepal's Maoist rebels are murdering, beating, bombing and looting—all in the name of 'protecting the people'".  The first sentence of the article "Even with knives as sharp as razors, it takes time to skin a man."  The last sentence - "As I climbed into my car, the man held onto my arm, eyes wide with fear, and hissed in my ear, 'Terror. Terror,' before running back to his house."  The middle of the article is more of the same.  Pravda almost always took a pro-USSR line (just as the US corporate media almost always takes a pro-US line), but I never saw the type of stuff you can read in Time like this or other "mainstream" US corporate media.  I mean, this just looks like the kind of copy you'd find attached to US WWI propaganda ("Beat back the Hun").  With the point being that the idea that papers beyond Murdoch's being straight news is incorrect.  And Pravda was always a lot more newsy and less propaganda than the type of thing I could have read in Time two years ago Ruy Lopez 16:59, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Reading between the lines in any newspaper is the job of whole sections in intelligence services all over the world. Pravda is not an exception. There was no intentional "hide and seek" or I Spy game here. Information could be recovered from occasional word slips, basing on a knack in Party phraseology and standard propaganda tricks, such as "Letters of workers to the editorial board". Mikkalai 03:04, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I don't understand what you mean by "There was no intentional "hide and seek" or I Spy game here.". I agree about what you say on the intelligence-type reading between the lines, but this probably alludes to the story about Pimenov that had I mentioned in the talk above. As for the article text you have cut away for some strange reason, it was mentioning one specific technique out of the Pravda's propaganda bag of tricks, along with my ecology example. When something nasty happened, people would sometimes hear the rumours seep through despite all the efforts to suppress the facts; to soften the blow to the socialist well-being image, they did try to report on similar problems in the "capitalist enemy's camp", and when they didn't have enough facts to support themselves, they blew existing facts out of proportion or fabricated news out of complete lies. BACbKA 16:35, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I'll give you an example from the American media. Suppose one was of the mind that since the Cold War end, the US has wanted a permanent military base somewhere in the Middle East, like it has in say the Phillipines or Panama.  With good candidates being places like Saudi Arabia or Iraq.  And that it was decided pre-Iraq invasion that it might be less trouble to have that base in Iraq than Saudi Arabia (although perhaps the people might be reassessing that view now).  Well, if one was of this mind, as I am, where in the news can I find such a statement?  Well, you can't, nowhere in the American news does it say "America simply wants a military base in some centrally located large Persian Gulf country".  It always says the US is defending freedom or something like that.  In fact, I myself was unable to find a statement like this, but Noam Chomsky in Hegemony or Survival points to a paragraph in a Wolfowitz interview in Vanity Fair where he says "There are a lot of things that are different now, and one that has gone by almost unnoticed--but it's huge--is that by complete mutual agreement between the U.S. and the Saudi government we can now remove almost all of our forces from Saudi Arabia. Their presence there over the last 12 years has been a source of enormous difficulty for a friendly government. It's been a huge recruiting device for al Qaeda. In fact if you look at bin Laden, one of his principle grievances was the presence of so-called crusader forces on the holy land, Mecca and Medina. I think just lifting that burden from the Saudis is itself going to open the door to other positive things."  Well, that gives us some meat for our thesis, but you have to search high and low to find that paragraph at the end of one interview with one official, and then try to read between the lines to see what it means.  I have to read between the lines all of the time - the Wall Street Journal is a pretty honest paper, one of the most honest, but they beat around the bush on certain issues, especially regarding consequences of actions they endore. Ruy Lopez 17:14, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * This is a good example of manipulative propaganda moves from some media, but it is a bit different direction, isn't it? We were talking about Pravda deliberately masking some particular piece of news, that it would like to go unnoticed or at least cloaked. When it came to justifying intervention elsewhere (Afghanistan and the Eastern Europe invasions earlier), there surely was brainwashing like you describe above... Funny thing, the motives were different a bit: in the U.S. people during voting have always been able to select candidates based on their platforms (OK, slogans all right and brainwashing too and you have to read between the lines to understand what they really might be meaning and never be sure until they're in the office for quite some time) – yet in the Soviet times the elections usually had only one candidate and whoever tried to vote against or, penguin forbid, write some anti-government slogan on the paper bulletin, he'd be in for KGB hot pursuit, whereas the electoral platform was all the same "advancing the cause of Lenin's/the Party teachings and the proletariat well-being etc..." I'm so happy I have forgotten the rest!BACbKA 19:11, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)

In reply to: As for the article text you have cut away for some strange reason,. The reason is simple: irrelevance to the subsection. Your "bad news" example is related to propaganda mechanisms, not to the way how to extract info "between the lines". How from the report about smog in Los Angeles you may guess a blow-out in Chelyabinsk? As for front pages vs. back pages, you seem no forget the layout of the paper (or have never seen them) Their content is absolutely incomparable in terms what information domain was covered. The mentioned phrases deserve a separate article, kind of Propaganda mechanisms in the Soviet Union, since they are not restricted to Pravda. (...This anecdote with the punch lines: "Pravda?" -- "Net, Vechernij Tbilisi!", remember? :-)(off-topic, but reflects the attitude)  Mikkalai 21:54, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * My "bad news" example was given as an answer to Ambi's question, as an example of news fabrication. The Politbureau members order one was about the reading between the lines. Ambi seemed to be satisfied with the examples. I didn't address the front vs. back issue at all, it was in the original text; now that I think about it, I agree with you on this point. I still think, nevertheless, that, at least until the propaganda mechanisms article you call for is written, something on the "similar bad news" fabrication technique should be present. BACbKA 10:49, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * As long as a source is found, I agree with BACbKA. Ambi 11:00, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes, but it still goes under the title "propaganda", rather than "reading between lines", be it an article or subsection. Mikkalai 02:31, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Pravda as euphemism/ synonym for government censorship
I think a section taking into account the "reading between the lines" aspect of the paper is necessary -- under such a heading could also be covered the usage of Pravda in the West to describe -- for instance -- Breitbart as the organ of the Trump administration; Fox News and other outlets have been used is similar contexts. In fact, my familiarity with Pravda came from such usage and I was disappointed to see the page lacking a section describing this aspect of Pravda -- I hear Breitbart referenced as "Pravda" frequently on the Chapo Trap House podcast and recall the Daily Show and other political comedy outlets referring to Fox News as "the Pravda of the Bush administration." The page seems incomplete when a reader who's come across "Pravda" used as a stand-in for censorship/ bias can't visit the Wikipedia page and be informed that "Pravda" in such instances isn't a literal reference to the paper or the Soviet Union in particular, but a general (and often comedic) allusion to journalistic bias. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joeletaylor (talk • contribs) 20:40, 9 December 2016 (UTC)

Lenin medals
Image:Pravda-otsovruk-c.jpg is an image of Pravda from 1991 which does not have the Lenin medals next to the title. Image:KomsomolskayaPravdaRizospastis200509.jpg is an image of Komsomolskaya Pravda from 2005 which has the Lenin medals next to the title. They are not the same newspaper. The article claims that "The next editor-in-chief, Alexander Ilyin, handed Pravda's trademark — the Order of Lenin medals — and the new registration certificate over to the new owners". What is going on? I also remember reading a recent OSCE Magazine article showing Pravda with the Lenin medals. – Kaihsu 13:02, 27 September 2005 (UTC)
 * The 1991 image had copyright problems. I reverted it to 1953 one (quite some time ago). ←Humus sapiens ну? 10:29, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Pravda wasn't a newspaper
Pravda wasn't a newspaper, like the NYT or Le Figaro. It was a tool to control the society. It's a shame, that the article doesn't explain it. Some quotations of 1937 would be helpful. Xx236 14:28, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, the article currently says that "Pravda became the conduit for announcing official policy and policy changes. It would remain so until 1991." What would you like to see added? Ahasuerus 14:46, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

 * There was a discussion about "reading between the lines" in 2004, no results. Maybe "Soviet propaganda" would be a better place for such informations, but it doesn't exist. Thank you for your comment - I don't understand what "conduit" exactly means regarding a newspaper.
 * Pravda, as any Soviet newspaper, was used to make cigarettes and as toilet paper (using Stalin's pictures was allegedly dangerous). Xx236 09:42, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Surely it was a newspaper, an official "organ of the CPSU". It served the ruling totalitarian regime and channeled its propaganda. You or I may dub it "toilet paper", but officially it was a newspaper. Please see WP:NOR ←Humus sapiens ну? 10:24, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

 * The distinction that Xx236 appears to be making is between a "newspaper" and a "gazette", i.e. an official publication printed by some organization or body, usually a government. Historically, social democratic (and later Communist) parties referred to their official newspapers as "organs", a term which doesn't have quite the same connotations in English. I am not sure what the best way of describing these shades of gray would be.

 * As far as the use of the term "conduit" goes, in this case it means "a means of transmitting or distributing [information]". If this is confusing, then we could change the wording to "Pravda became the [main] channel (?) for announcing official policy and policy changes." Do you think it would read better? Ahasuerus 13:55, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I think it is a step in the right direction. Is this better: "... one of the main channels announcing official policy changes and disseminating domestic Soviet propaganda." ←Humus sapiens ну? 04:22, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't claim that Pravda was only toilet paper. But the Wikipedia should inform, e.g. that the Soviet Union was a country without wrappings and toilet paper, as the result of the policy imposed by Pravda. And that there are many anecdotes, about people condemned, because they (mis)used Stalin's pictures. It would be interesting to know, if such anecdotes are based on facts, I bet there were many denunciacions of that kind. The reader should be informed what the Pravda was. It wasn't a newspaper like ones known to the readers. It was thin, boring, self-censored, didn't contain advertising. It didn't care about the reader. Do you know a newspaper printed for editor rather than for reasders? Do you call it a newspaper or rather a leaflet or bulletin? I'm not a native speaker to understand the difference. Letters to the editors of Pravda were probably faked, to pretend there existed public opinion in the SU. Such "newspapers" existed in any Communist country, but had local flavour, eg. Ceausescu's cult, different than the Stalin's one. The article should inform about such "newspapers", like Trybuna Ludu in Poland. Pravda was different under Stalin and under Breshnyev. The article should describe the differences. Pravda was obligatory for many Soviet institutions. Xx236 13:56, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

 * We don't invent terminology. It is called "newspaper". And it printed "news". Period. Different countries may have different styles of newspapers. Your argument "didn't contain advertising" makes me ROTFL. This joke is even better than about herring-wrapping. `'mikka (t) 17:02, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Pravda wasn't funny. Millions read Pravda and found terrible news there, even if "between the lines". Some of my comments are true for more Soviet "newspapers", so they should be in "Soviet press" or something like that. Generally newspapers contain advertising, economical informations, local informations. The majority of Sviet "newspapers" didn't contain such things. It's obvious for Soviet people, but not for an average reader of the English Wikipedia. Xx236 07:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

 * That's quite a few points. Let's see if we can discuss them one by one.
 * 1. "Pravda was thin". If we could add the actual page count for different periods, that would be certainly useful.
 * 2. "Pravda was boring". This one is tricky since "boring" is inherently POV. Perhaps an example of Pravda 's editorial style and a few quotes from a couple of different periods could be given instead?
 * I mean, that the editors didn't care about the readers. Generally editors tend to catch the attention. The party totally controlled the society so it didn't need to interesting. Xx236 07:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, we already say that "Pravda became the conduit for announcing official policy and policy changes", which explains what kind of content was published in Pravda. Would you suggest expanding it further? Ahasuerus 23:27, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * 3. "Pravda was self-censored". Is this an attempt to distinguish other, less important newspapers, which were subject to regular government censorship, from Pravda, which wasn't censored because its editors were high ranking Communist officials? If so, it is true that Pravda was a sui generis case, but on the other hand, its editors occasionally got into hot water with the higher ups, especially under Stalin. There are a few letters in that Stalin-Kaganovich volume that we could quote here.
 * 4. "Letters to Pravda were probably faked". We should be able to find a Politburo decision making Pravda editors "responsible for organizing a popular campaign against/for XYZ".
 * 5. "Pravda as a leaflet or bulletin". Unfortunately, the connotations would not be quite right.
 * 6. "Pravda was different under Stalin and under Breshnyev. The article should describe the differences." This is certainly true, but it's not a trivial proposition.
 * 7. "Pravda was obligatory for many Soviet institutions". That's a good point, we just need a source.
 * Probably more than 50% of the edition were "bought" by Soviet institutions, like trade, sovkhoses, banks. [Added by Xx236 ]
 * OK, I have found a source, adding it now. Ahasuerus 23:27, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * 8. "the Soviet Union was a country without wrappings and toilet paper, as the result of the policy imposed by Pravda". If we try listing every single policy that Pravda promoted over a 70+ year period and what it arguably led to, we'll be encroaching on other articles' territory and make this one completely unmanageable.
 * 9. "anecdotes, about people condemned, because they (mis)used Stalin's pictures". Sure, we can include it if we can find a source.
 * 10. "didn't contain advertising". None of the leading Soviet newspapers published ads post-1930, so that's not really a distinguishing characteristic.
 * Where is this knowledge available in the Wikipedia, like several others allegedly obvious knowledge about the SU? If not - is it self-censure or censure (very active in many SU articles)? [by Xx236 ]
 * Don't get me wrong, please. Identifying gaps in Wikipedia coverage is a good thing and very much appreciated and encouraged, but there are tons of articles that are virtually begging to be written. To use a parallel example from Russian history, many leaders of the February Revolution (Bazarov, B.O. Bogdanov, Zenzinov, Steklov, Sukhanov, etc) do not have WP articles and some are not even mentioned. Other articles, e.g. Vladimir Lenin are content-free and POV-ridden to the point of being almost useless. Filling the gaps and correcting what's already there is just a question of time and resource allocation. Similarly, I don't think anybody is trying to conceal or censor anything re: Pravda, it's just a question of finding the best and most logical place for certain bits of information to live. Something that may not be a good fit in Pravda may find a loving home in another article. Ahasuerus 23:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * 11. "Such "newspapers" existed in any Communist country, but had local flavour". If we can find sources that show that leading Communist newspapers in some/all Soviet satellite states were originally modeled after Pravda, that would be useful. Ahasuerus 17:23, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I have forgotten Soviet republics. Any republic had a local party gazette. I don't know the names of the papers, were they printed in Russian or local language, how many place offered they for Pravda reprints (or translations). Communist countries were under strong supervision 1948-1956 and had more authonomy befor and after. Rumania had very specific Ceausescu cult and relative independence. Communist newspapers reprinted translations of Pravda articles on the first page, sometimes. The problem of translating Pravda articles was important, any deviation was a crime. Generally newspapers don't offer the first page for reprints from Pravda, do they? Western Communist newspapers were partially Soviet, but had to challenge other newspapers. Yougoslavia and Albania had local Party newspapers, but anti-Soviet ones. Xx236 07:31, 26 April 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think this is in dispute, but again it's a question of finding the best place for this type of information. Detailed information for each country can go into that country's article, while this article can be modified to say something like "After the establishment of Communist governments in Central and Eastern Europe after WWII, the newspapers of the local Communist parties were modelled after Pravda". We'll just need a source for this claim; I think I have something in the back of my library. Ahasuerus 23:56, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I didn't mean Pravda, but eg. Soviet Union, NKVD (especially The NKVD and the Soviet economy), where much effort has been done to consor me rather than to write something.

An example of Pravda "clone" was Pravda (Slovakia). The statement "In the past, the newspaper was the Slovak equivalent of the Soviet/Russian newspaper Pravda" isn't however informative. The Polish one Trybuna Ludu doesn't have an article yet, there is Rudé právo. Xx236 13:40, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Pravda in jokes
The nuspaper was a target of numerous jokes. One of them is already in "Russian joke"
 * A Georgian comes to see proctologist complaining about constipation. The doctor looks into his ass and says: "There is a newspaper stuck in your ass, genatsvale!" - "Pravda!?" (translation: "Is that so!?") - "No, Morning Tbilisi!" (to the question of toilet paper raised above)
 * A worker about to be joining CPSU is asked a tricky question at partkom (Party committee): What do you prefer: "Pravda newspaper or Radio Liberty?" - "Of course Pravda!" - The partkom secretary, happy with the political consciousness of the candidate, decides to probe a bit further: "Why so?" - "Why, that's clear to everyone: you cannt wrap a herring ( comment: the second main snack for vodka, beaten only by pickled cucumber ) in a radio!" `'mikka (t) 05:48, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Surprisingly, I don't remember any jokes about cigarettes wrapped (samokrutka) from Pravda. `'mikka (t) 05:48, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Another one I've heard is "There is no truth in Pravda and there is no news in Izvestia", playing off the meaning of the names. LeoO3 16:18, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Pravda.ru
I find it very strange that Wikipedia doesn't have an article about Pravda.ru, which is the main Internet newspaper of Russia today, having a circulation far exceeding the "Pravda of the Communist Party" newspaper (the subject of the main article here), which is a shadow of its former self. An article outlining the differences between the two newspapers can be found here. - Embram (talk) 14:02, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

Pravda.ru was actually founded by editors of the post-1991 Pravda who left that paper. Look at the names and its pretty clear they aren't "unrelated". Gorshenin, the editor of Pravda.ru actually worked for the Soviet era Pravda as far back as 1985 as the "Youth Editor". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.198.120.217 (talk) 01:13, 20 September 2008 (UTC)

Pravda in arts
"Pravda is the name of a bar..." "Pravda is the name of a pub..." Pravda means truth in Russian, and any small boutique or cigarette kiosk can be named anything like that. i can't say that "Al-Ahram" is the name of a street, many hotels, beer brand, and by the way pharaonic tombs just because it is the name of a newspaper in Egypt, ignoring the fact that it means pyramids! that lacks seriousness. Khaled Khalil 09:51, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

zvezda
While doind disambiguation for Zvezda and looking for entries in wikipedia for Zvezda (magazine) and Zvezda (newspaper) I noticed that the articles Pravda, History of the Communist Party of the Soviet Union and Joseph Stalin tell quite different stories about Zvezda. Could someone Russian make order with this please? Mukadderat (talk) 03:19, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Pravda is returning to the "good old days"
as it was back in the USSR. The article should reflect this.

http://www.politico.com/blogs/jonathanmartin/0808/And_wait_until_you_see_the_opinion_section.html

Pravda: war between Russia and Georgia orchestrated from the USA!

http://biglizards.net/blog/archives/2008/08/ap_levels_serio.html

http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives2/print/021207.php —Preceding unsigned comment added by Anonymousformysafety (talk • contribs) 23:08, 18 August 2008 (UTC)

Please fix the Link to CNN Cold War articles comparison
thx 188.108.114.183 (talk) 14:56, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

What's up with pravda.ru?
To call it a "tabloid" is an understatement.

They have stories like:

Soviet Army fought UFOs

Jesus Christ born in Ukraine
 * Not that controversial really. A priest named his son Jesus Christ --John Ericson (talk) 19:33, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Pregnant for half a century

Russians conquered Mars 30 years ago
 * Yes, in their training programs that is. I think this is related to the Mars 500 program. --John Ericson (talk) 19:33, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Unknown fire and jelly-like creatures live in Earth's atmosphere

Mysterious dwarfish alien brutally murdered in Russia's remote village

And so on..

Well I'm doing a bit of research as to why Medvedev and Putin are so tolerant of Russia being the global centre of the internet child pornography industry. I had to register with Pravda to pose this query to their editor and then activate the registration - you know, the usual admin. But after logging on I still was unable to post my query to the editor. I gave it 24 hours and tried again. This time they had no record of me! So that's another site to stay well away from - p'arn the grammar please. Cheers Semperlibre. Wavy things, where are the wavy things? Ok here we go Semperlibre (talk) 14:42, 14 May 2010 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.73.153.146 (talk) 20:18, 13 January 2010 (UTC)

 * For those interested, the "fire and jelly-like creatures in the atmosphere" article can be found here. An interesting read to say the least. --Anonymous 20:00, 29 October 2013 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.31.214.20 (talk)

Shouldn't Pravda Online (pravda.ru) get its own page to avoid ambiguity?
The page mentions: ''The new Pravda newspaper and Pravda Online are not related in any way. The paper Pravda tends to analyze events from a leftist point of view, while the web-based tabloid-style newspaper often takes a nationalist and sensationalist approach.''

In that case shouldn't Pravda Online be mentioned on its own page, instead of just being a redirect to this one? And if so also add it to the disambiguation page? Of course the "not related in any way" should perhaps be rephrased as the editors and many of the journalists came from the Pravda newspaper. --John Ericson (talk) 19:14, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Russian saying
"As the names of the main Communist newspaper and the main Soviet newspaper, Pravda and Izvestia, meant "the truth" and "the news" respectively, a popular Russian saying was "v Pravde net izvestiy, v Izvestiyakh net pravdy" (In the Truth there is no news, and in the News there is no truth)."

Don't think the romanisation of the Russian on this is correct. Can anybody contribute the original Russian? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.180.104.219 (talk) 08:37, 31 October 2012 (UTC)

 * I'm having trouble finding any sources that say this was a common saying in Russia. In fact the source we have, the NYT, just says "the old joke about the Soviet press was that there's no truth in Pravda and no news in Izvestia" without saying that anyone in Russia ever said this. Interestingly, I did find an article in pravda.ru that says this was a saying among Americans: "Во время холодной войны 1.0 американские СМИ любили поиздеваться над советской печатью, чтобы соответствовать "славным стандартам" западной прессы. Одной из самых популярных шуток был выпад в сторону двух главных российских газет — "Правды" и "Известий": американцам то и дело повторяли, что в "Правде" нет никакой правды, а в "Известиях" — никаких новостей." ("During Cold War 1.0 American SME (?) loved to poke fun at the Soviet press, for [something] in the Western press. One of the popular jokes was aimed at the two Russian newspapers, "Pravda" and "Izvestiya": the Americans said that in "Pravda" there is no truth, and in "Izvestiya" no news."). (sorry my Russian is not that good) Kendall-K1 (talk) 15:08, 5 May 2016 (UTC)

 * Hi there. Russian is here. Wanted to say that neither I nor my relatives ever heard about this joke.
 * Before 1991 there was a strong censorship system that rendered almost impossible the news to leak into/out of the country from/to the outside world. 109.206.156.72 (talk) 17:39, 21 January 2018 (UTC)

Disambiguation hatnote
Recently Barkeep49 added Pravda (Slovakia) to the disambiguation hatnote. I don't think it's necessary to single out that specific other thing named "Prava" beyond the disambiguation page link (I do see why Pravda.ru and Komsomolskaya Pravda, both of which are much more easily confused with the subject of this article, are mentioned separately). Thoughts? Huon (talk) 22:00, 27 May 2018 (UTC)
 * I don't have strong opinions on this (and am not following this page or discussion, so thanks for the ping!) but after being told about it I did some searching and it does appear that the Slovakian Pravada is of some importance (despite a really poor page). I added it given the two existing see alsos but would be fine with a more generic DAB listing. Best, Barkeep49 (talk) 22:43, 27 May 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:21, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Kotlasskiy kraevedcheskiy musey (093).JPG

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:52, 31 March 2022 (UTC)
 * 1939-pravda-molodsov-ilichev-ryklin.jpg

title: Talk:Pravda


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Unattended terminal syndrome

Not an encyclopedic entry, maybe a neologism, although I'm willing to believe it's in common usage and I've just never heard of it. Found 1 Google entry that wasn't a mirror, in a list of acronyms. Joyous 23:04, Aug 2, 2004 (UTC)
 * never heard of it either. The fact that it is an orphan and google mainly lists mirrors does not help. As a phrase I find it about as useful as "unlocked door syndrome" to describe the phenomenon of theft from unsecured rooms. Delete. --Ianb 23:10, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete neologism. Rossami 23:33, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: We all know the phenomenon.  We tend to call it our own names, though.  No evidence that this phrase has currency. Geogre 00:56, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, not a recognized usage. [[User:dpbsmith|dpbsmith (talk)]] 01:55, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete - possibly merge content (not made-up name) with a computer user security article. - Tεx  τ  urε  17:35, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Frank Merriam

Frank Finley Merriam (December 22, 1865 – April 25, 1955) was an American Republican politician who served as the 28th governor of California from June 2, 1934, until January 2, 1939. Assuming the governorship at the height of the Great Depression following the death of Governor James Rolph, Merriam defeated Democratic nominee Upton Sinclair in the 1934 election. Merriam also served as the State Auditor of Iowa from 1900 to 1903, and served in both the Iowa and California state legislatures.

Early years
Merriam was born in 1865 in Hopkinton, Iowa, the eldest of 11 children. In 1861, his father Henry C. Merriam and uncle Charles E. Merriam enlisted in Company K, 12th Iowa Infantry. Both were captured at the Battle of Shiloh, held as prisoners of war at Libby Prison, and returned to Iowa.

After graduating from Lenox College at Hopkinton in 1888, Merriam served as the principal of the Hopkinton schools for two years and superintendent of schools at Postville for one year. He was a school superintendent in Wisner, Nebraska. He next became the editor of the Hopkinton Leader, a newspaper.

In 1904, he moved to Muskogee, Oklahoma, where he owned and published the Muskogee Evening Times. He moved to Long Beach, California in 1910 with his second wife, Nellie, to attend to family obligations. There he worked in the advertising department of the Long Beach Press.

Iowa and California legislatures
Merriam was elected to the Iowa House of Representatives as a Republican at the age of 31 in 1896. Two years later, Merriam was elected as Iowa State Auditor, a post he would hold until 1903. In 1910 at the age of 44, Merriam moved to California. Following seven years of living in the state, Merriam was elected to the California State Assembly in 1916, representing the Long Beach area, beginning his rise in California politics.

In 1922, while still serving in the Assembly, Merriam presided over the successful election campaign of former Bull Moose member and Republican candidate for governor Friend Richardson. Name recognition from Richardson's successful campaign among fellow Republicans helped Merriam be elected by the Republican majority in the Assembly as its Speaker in 1923. During the 1926 general elections, Speaker Merriam ran as a primary candidate for lieutenant governor. However, state Republicans instead voted for Buron Fitts as the party's candidate for that office.

Following his departure from the Assembly that year, Merriam took a two-year hiatus from state politics. He returned in the 1928 elections after he was elected to the California State Senate. After two years in that body, Merriam won the nomination for lieutenant governor and, along with the Republican candidate for governor, San Francisco Mayor James Rolph, was elected to office.

Governor of California 1934-1939
On June 2, 1934, Governor Rolph was pronounced dead of heart failure at Riverside Farm in Santa Clara County. Upon the news of the Governor's death, Lieutenant Governor Merriam was sworn in as governor.

Longshoremen's strike
Nearly immediately after assuming the governorship, Merriam faced labor agitation, particularly by members of the International Longshoremen's Association on the docks of San Francisco. Beginning in May 1934, longshoremen along the West Coast walked off the job to strike, protesting against the ILA national leadership's negotiated settlements with transportation and cargo companies. Longshoremen demanded six-hour days, closed shops, and the right to unionize freely. Activity in the ports of San Francisco and Oakland ground to a halt. Teamsters soon joined the longshoremen in their walk-out. Popular support for the strikers also grew from various segments of the urban working-class, left unemployed by the Great Depression. By the strike's second month, violence had begun to break out along the Embarcadero as San Francisco Police clashed with the strikers during attempts to escort hired labor to the docks. Municipal officials accused the ILA's ranks filled with Communists and other left-wing radicals.

As governor, James Rolph had consulted with other West Coast governors such as Julius L. Meier of Oregon and Clarence D. Martin of Washington to bring in the U.S. Department of Labor in order to settle the dispute. After his unexpected death in June, these efforts were suspended. Furthermore, negotiations between the federal government and local ILA organizers failed to yield any agreement.

On July 5, 1934, as more attempts to open the Port of San Francisco were made by employers, hostilities between strikers, their sympathizers, and the police reached their zenith. Later known as "Bloody Thursday", San Francisco Police shot tear gas at strikers and sympathizers on Rincon Hill, followed by a charge on horseback. Later, protestors surrounded a police car and attempted to overturn it, but were met by gunshots in the air, and quickly afterwards, shots into the crowd itself. Later in the day, police raided an ILA union hall, shooting tear gas into the building and into other local hotels.

Merriam, only governor for a month, threw the state government into the fray. As reports of growing violence in San Francisco reached Sacramento by the minute, Merriam activated the California Army National Guard, deploying regiments to San Francisco's waterfront. In the weeks before "Bloody Thursday", Merriam had remained updated on the ongoing labor dispute, threatening only to activate the Guard if the situation grew too serious. Behind the public scenes, however, the Governor had confided to fellow Republicans that ordering the Guard into San Francisco would ruin him politically. The events of July 5, however, proved to be a turning point. In addition to the Guard's deployment, federal troops of the U.S. Army were placed on stand-by in the Presidio if the situation grew beyond the Guard's control.

Merriam also ordered the halt of construction on the San Francisco–Oakland Bay Bridge until the violence in San Francisco subsided.

Within the day, 1,500 Guardsmen armed with fixed bayonets and machine guns patrolled the waterfront, with an additional 5,000 state troops on reserve. Explaining to the United Press the following day, Merriam placed full blame of "Bloody Thursday" on the political Left. "The leaders of the striking longshoremen are not free from Communist and subversive influences...There will be no turning back from the position I have taken in this matter."

Following the funerals of the two men slain on "Bloody Thursday", the San Francisco Labor Council voted for a general strike. For four days from July 16 to July 19, the activity in the city ground to a halt. Mayor Angelo J. Rossi requested more Guardsman in the city, and in meetings with generals, plans were drawn to impose martial law over the entire city. However, with a heavily armed National Guard presence along the waterfront, violence did not break out again. In the meantime, the police, now backed up by National Guardsmen, raided and arrested militant and radical offices of the International Longshoremen's Association (ILA) leaders and sympathizers. By July 19, the General Strike Committee and the Labor Council ordered an end to the strike, demanding its picketers to accept arbitration from the federal government. With the strike broken by its less militant leadership, longshoremen grudgingly returned to work.

Less than three years later, Governor Merriam was called upon to intervene in another labor dispute, the Stockton Cannery Strike of 1937 in which one person died and 50 injured. Merriam refused to call up the National Guard this time, but did play a significant role in mediating between the two sides after the violence to get the canneries open and save the $6 million spinach crop.

1934 Gubernatorial election
In the aftermath of the Longshore Strike, Merriam was highly praised by the conservative San Francisco press for his perceived victory over the strikers. During the strike, state Republicans nominated the Governor to run for a full term in the general election that November. Merriam, however, had threatened not to deploy the California National Guard to San Francisco if the party would not nominate him.

Running against Merriam in the 1934 elections was former Socialist Party member Upton Sinclair, who had surprisingly won the nomination of the Democratic Party for governor. A third-party candidate, Raymond L. Haight of the Commonwealth-Progressive Party, also challenged Merriam.

During the campaign, Sinclair promoted the EPIC project, a socialist work program to ensure universal employment for all Californians, complete with the state control of factories, the opening of farm cooperatives and the creation of a cabinet-level California Authority for Production agency to oversee state employment.

The Commonwealth Party's Haight relied on centrists from the Democrats who believed that Sinclair had driven the party too far to the left.

Merriam's campaign rallied state conservatives into the so-called "Stop Sinclair" movement. Among supporters were MGM studio head Louis B. Mayer, media tycoon William Randolph Hearst, and Los Angeles Times publisher Harry Chandler. During the campaign, Mayer turned multiple studio lots in Los Angeles into propaganda machines, churning out fake newsreels to be played before feature-length films in the state. One notable newsreel included Soviets arriving in California to vote for Sinclair. Also during the campaign, Merriam frequented football games and public events, and on one occasion, attended a hospital talking to deaf mutes through an interpreter. Many such events were quickly publicized by the conservative press.

The result of the 1934 general election saw Merriam defeating Sinclair with 48% of the vote to Sinclair's 37%. Haight garnered 13%. After the election, Merriam announced that the result was "[a] rebuke to socialism and communism."

The 1934 general election is generally remembered as one of the most hotly contested elections in California history. It has also been cited by political historians as one of the first modern elections, due to the various uses of popular media and rhetoric to both popularize and demonize candidates.

Full Term
Upon beginning his full term, Merriam immediately faced an ever-shrinking state budget and growing deficit. In an effort that later angered many powerful conservative backers who had originally supported his 1934 candidacy, as well as challenging his own deep-seated conservatism, Merriam proposed to the Legislature a tax increase of nearly $107 million. The tax reform laws included instituting a state personal income tax modeled after the Federal Income Tax of 1934, which had been created by the Democratic-controlled Congress, and raising sales taxes to three percent. The Legislature agreed, and passed the tax reform law in 1935.

William Randolph Hearst, whose newspapers provided one of the bulwarks of the governor's 1934 campaign, complained bitterly over the reformed tax laws. The Hearst-owned San Francisco Examiner's editorial shortly after the reform bills' passage read: "[e]xtortionate and confiscatory taxation will mean ... devastation of business, paralysis of industry."

Fanning the growing rift between Merriam and conservative Republicans, right-wing author and playwright Charles Gilman Norris penned letters that became widely circulated thanks to Hearst's newspaper empire, complaining of Merriam's reforms. "[T]he minute the proposed State Income Tax becomes law, my wife, Kathleen Norris, and myself will put both our homes — the one in Palo Alto and our ranch near Saratoga — up for sale and move out of the State. There is no alternative for us. We pay 52% of our income now to the Federal Government at Washington and under the proposed State Income Tax Law, we shall have to pay an additional 18%, so that out of every dollar we earn from our writings, 70¢ will go out in taxes!"

Hearst supporters challenged Merriam's and the Legislature's 1935 reform laws in a special referendum in 1936 with Proposition 2. The proposition would automatically repeal the tax reforms, and would in the future require the support of two-thirds of the Legislature and approval of voters by statewide referendum before any new income tax could be imposed. The measure, however, was defeated.

While the State Senate was controlled by Republicans, the crucial lower house Assembly, where finance bills originated, was split between conservative and socialist-leaning Democrats. Merriam proceeded with appeasing the closely divided Legislature by praising the federal Townsend Plan, while complaining to conservatives and other capitalist supporters that he was surrounded by fanatics.

1938 Gubernatorial election
By the 1938 general election, Merriam had lost much support from the right due to the tax reform laws and support for Social Security, while he garnered little support or sympathy from the left due to his troubled relationship with labor unions and the squelching of the Longshore Strike. In the primaries, the Democratic Party nominated State Senator Culbert Olson, a former EPIC and Upton Sinclair supporter as well as an unabashed supporter of President Franklin D. Roosevelt's New Deal. Republicans, meanwhile, renominated Merriam for a second full term.

Merriam Handily Lost Reelection to Olson, ending the Republican dynasty over the governorship that had lasted for forty years beginning with the election of Governor Henry Gage in 1898. Merriam received 44% of the vote to Olson's 52%.

Post-governorship
Merriam resided in the Bluff Park neighborhood of Long Beach, California.

After his defeat, Merriam retired from public life. In 1941 he joined the California Society of the Sons of the American Revolution. Following the death of former Governor and U.S. Senator Hiram Johnson in 1945, a brief write-in campaign for Merriam appeared, though it only garnered 500 votes. He died at home in Long Beach of a heart attack, at age 89, on April 25, 1955.

title: Frank Merriam


text:
Red Porch

The Red Porch or Red Staircase (Красное крыльцо, Krasnoe Kryltso), decorated with stone lions, leads into the Palace of Facets in the Kremlin, Moscow.

In old Russian the word krasny meant "beautiful", but today it means "red". This is the same word used for "Red Square".

On the morning of his coronation, the Tsar was met at the Red Porch, where he took his place beneath a large canopy held by thirty-two Russian generals, with other officers providing additional support. Accompanied by his consort (under a separate canopy) and the imperial regalia, he proceeded slowly toward the Cathedral of the Dormition, where his crowning and anointing would take place. After the service, the Emperor and Empress proceeded under canopies back to the Red Porch of the Kremlin, where they rested and prepared for a great ceremonial meal at the Kremlin's Hall of Facets. During their procession back to their Kremlin palace, later rulers (starting with Nicholas I) stopped on the Red Staircase and bowed three times to the assembled people in the courtyard, symbolizing what one historian has called "an unspoken bond of devotion" between ruler and subjects.

In the 1930s the porch was destroyed, and its place was taken by an unimpressive Kremlin canteen. In 1994 the Red Porch was the first of Moscow’s monuments to be restored.

.

title: Red Porch


text:
Douglas YOA-5

The Douglas YOA-5 was an amphibious aircraft designed for the United States Army Air Corps, based on the Navy's Douglas XP3D. Although a prototype was built, it did not enter production.

Design and development
In November 1932, the U.S. Army ordered the development of an amphibious reconnaissance aircraft/bomber, intended to act as navigation leaders and rescue aircraft for formations of conventional bombers. The resultant aircraft, which was ordered under the bomber designation YB-11, was designed in parallel with the similar but larger Douglas XP3D patrol flying boat for the United States Navy. It was a high-winged monoplane with two Wright R-1820 Cyclone radial engines mounted in individual nacelles above the wing, resembling an enlarged version of the Douglas Dolphin.

Prior to completion, it was redesignated firstly as an observation aircraft YO-44 and then as the YOA-5 'observation amphibian model 5'. It first flew during January 1935, and was delivered to the army during February that year. The concept for which it was designed proved impracticable, and no further production ensued, but the YOA-5 was used to set two world distance records for amphibians, being finally scrapped in December 1943.

Operators

 * 🇺🇸 United States
 * United States Army Air Corps

Variants

 * YB-11
 * An amphibious reconnaissance bomber ordered in 1932 by the US Army Air Corps, powered by 2x Wright R-1820-13 Cyclone radial engines.

 * YO-44
 * The YB-11 redesignated in the Observation category before completion.

 * YOA-5
 * Another redesignation to the Observation Amphibian category. One built, given the aforementioned designations at various times in its life. The YOA-5 started life with Wright R-1820-13 Cyclone engines, was re-engined with 930 hp Wright YR-1820-45 Cyclone engines for experimental long-range flying, then re-engined again with 750 hp Wright R-1820-25 Cyclones.

title: Douglas YOA-5


text:
Charlotte Dundas

Charlotte Dundas is regarded as the world's second successful steamboat, the first towing steamboat and the boat that demonstrated the practicality of steam power for ships.

Early experiments
Development of experimental steam engined paddle boats by William Symington had halted when the sponsor, Patrick Miller of Dalswinton, abandoned the project. Symington had continued building steam pumping engines and mill engines. In 1793 he had developed a drive using a pivoted crosshead beam above the vertical cylinder to transmit power to a crank.

Miller's project and Captain John Schank's unsuccessful attempt at a canal steam tug had come to the attention of Thomas, Lord Dundas, Governor of the Forth and Clyde Canal Company, and at a meeting of the canal company's directors on 5 June 1800 approved his proposals on the basis of "a model of a boat by Captain Schank to be worked by a steam engine by Mr Symington".

The boat was built by Alexander Hart at Grangemouth to Symington's design with a vertical cylinder engine and crosshead transmitting power to a crank driving the paddlewheels. Trials on the River Carron in June 1801 were successful. This first boat may have been named Charlotte Dundas and the trials apparently included towing sloops from the river Forth up the Carron and thence along the Forth and Clyde Canal. There was concern about wave damage to the canal banks, and possibly the boat was found to be underpowered on the canal, so the canal company refused further trials.

Charlotte Dundas

In 1801 Symington patented a horizontal steam engine directly linked to a crank, and got the support of Lord Dundas for a second steamboat which would become famous as Charlotte Dundas, named in honour of his Lordship's daughter.

Construction
Symington designed a new hull around his powerful horizontal engine, with the crank driving a large paddle wheel in a central upstand in the hull, aimed at avoiding damage to the canal banks. The new boat was 56 ft long, 18 ft wide and 8 ft depth, with a wooden hull. After a model of the boat was made and shown to Lord Dundas, the boat was built by John Allan, and the engine by the Carron Company.

First sailing
The first sailing was on the canal in Glasgow on 4 January 1803, with Lord Dundas and a few of his relatives and friends on board. After some improvements, in March 1803 Charlotte Dundas towed two 70-ton barges 30 km along the Forth and Clyde Canal to Glasgow, and despite "a strong breeze right ahead" which stopped all other canal boats it took only nine and a quarter hours, giving an average speed of about 3 km/h. This demonstrated the practicality of steam power for towing boats.

End of the project
Plans to introduce boats on the Forth and Clyde canal were thwarted, largely by fears of erosion of the banks, and a project to build tug boats for the Bridgewater Canal had ended with the Duke of Bridgewater's death a few days before the March trial. Charlotte Dundas was left in a backwater of the canal at Bainsford until it was broken up in 1861. Symington was not paid all he had invested in construction of Charlotte Dundas and was left disappointed, but the development of steamboats was continued by others including Robert Fulton in the United States and Henry Bell in Scotland.

title: Charlotte Dundas


text:
Lacuna Coil (EP)

Lacuna Coil is the first EP by Italian gothic metal band Lacuna Coil, released on April 7, 1998, by Century Media.

Credits

 * Andrea Ferro - male vocals
 * Cristina Scabbia - female vocals
 * Raffaele Zagaria - guitars
 * Claudio Leo - guitars
 * Marco Coti Zelati - bass
 * Leonardo Forti - drums
 * Waldemar Sorychta - keyboards, production
 * Media Logistics (Carsten Drescher) - design and layout

title: Lacuna Coil (EP)


text:
Rose (disambiguation)

A rose is a perennial plant of the genus Rosa, or the flower it bears.

Rose may also refer to:

Colors

 * Rose (color)
 * RAL 3017 Rose
 * Rose (heraldic tincture)

Film

 * Rose (1936 film), a French film
 * Rose (2011 film), a Polish film
 * Rose (2012 film), a British film
 * Rose (2014 film), an Indian film
 * Rose (2017 film), an American film
 * The Rose (film), a 1979 American film

Television

 * The Rose (Taiwanese TV series), a 2003 Taiwanese drama
 * Rose (TV series), a 2019 Burmese dramatic television series
 * The Rose (Burmese TV series), a 2022 Burmese horror television series
 * "Rose" (Doctor Who), an episode and multiple characters
 * "Rose" (The Vampire Diaries), an episode of The Vampire Diarires
 * "Rose" (Titans episode)
 * Rose (Titans character)
 * Rose (Keeping Up Appearances), a character
 * Rose (Two and a Half Men), a character

Gaming

 * ROSE Online, a 2005 roleplaying game
 * Rose (Street Fighter)
 * Rose, a fairy chess piece
 * Chairman Rose, a character from the game Pokémon Sword and Shield

Literature

 * Rose (comics), a comic book miniseries by Jeff Smith
 * Rose (Marvel Comics), a persona used by several characters in Marvel Comics
 * The Rose (comics) or Richard Fisk, a character in Marvel Comics
 * Rose Is Rose, comic strip begun in 1984
 * Rose (novel), a novel by Martin Cruz Smith
 * Rose (play), a 1999 play by Tomson Highway
 * "The Rose", a novella by Charles L. Harness
 * "The Rose", a section of the collected works of W. B. Yeats
 * "The Rose", a fairy tale from Grimms' Fairy Tales

Music

 * Rosette (music), a soundhole decoration
 * The Rose (band), a South Korean band

Classical

 * "Rose", the theme song from Titanic: Music from the Motion Picture
 * Rose, a work by Ludovico Einaudi
 * La Rose, a work by Giovanni Bassano
 * "La Rose", a song by Giovanni Battista Rubini

Albums

 * Rose (Maximilian Hecker album) (2003)
 * Rose (Miliyah Kato album) (2005)
 * The Rose (soundtrack), the soundtrack to the 1979 film
 * The Rose (TV soundtrack), the soundtrack for the 2003 Taiwanese drama The Rose
 * R.O.S.E., a 2018 album by Jessie J
 * Rose, an EP by B.A.P (2017)
 * Rose, an EP by The Front Bottoms (2014)
 * Rose, an EP by Menomena (2001)
 * The Rose, a 2002 album by Mediæval Bæbes

Songs

 * "Rose" (Anna Tsuchiya song)
 * "Rose" (Versailles song)
 * "The Rose" (song), a 1977 song written by Amanda McBroom and made famous by Bette Midler
 * "Rose", a song by A Perfect Circle from their 2000 album Mer de Noms
 * "The Rose Song", a 2021 song by Olivia Rodrigo

People

 * Rose (given name)
 * Rose (surname)
 * Rose (French singer), born 1978
 * Rose, an alter ego used by the English streamer F1NN5TER
 * Justice Rose (disambiguation)

Places

 * Rose, Nova Scotia, Canada
 * Rose (Brachtpe), a river of North Rhine-Westphalia, Germany
 * Rose, Calabria, Italy
 * Rose, Cornwall, England, United Kingdom
 * Rose-an-Grouse, Cornwall, England, United Kingdom
 * Rose, Nebraska, an unincorporated community in the United States
 * Rose, New York, a town in Wayne County, New York, United States
 * Rose (hamlet), New York, a hamlet in Wayne County, New York, United States
 * Rose, Oklahoma, United States
 * Rose, Wisconsin, United States

Plants

 * Christmas rose, Helleborus niger
 * Cotton rose, Hibiscus mutabilis
 * Desert rose, Adenium
 * Guelder rose, Viburnum opulus
 * Lenten rose, Helleborus orientalis
 * Montpellier rock rose, Cistus monspeliensis
 * Primrose, Primula vulgaris
 * Rock rose, Cistus
 * Rose bay willow herb, Chamaenerion angustifolium
 * Rose bay, Nerium oleander, the only species in the genus Nerium
 * Rose campion, Silene coronaria
 * Rose of China, Hibiscus rosa-sinensis
 * Rose of Jericho, Selaginella lepidophylla
 * Rose of Sharon, Hypericum calycinum (British Isles) or Hibiscus syriacus (North America)
 * Rosemary, Rosmarinus
 * Roseroot, Rhodiola rosea
 * Rosewood (several species)
 * Sun rose, Cistus
 * Sydney rock rose, Boronia serrulata
 * Wood rose, Distimake tuberosus

Science

 * ROSE (compiler framework)
 * A/ROSE, computer operating system
 * Remote Operations Service Element protocol, an OSI application layer protocol

Ships

 * HMS Rose, a list of ships
 * HMS Rose (1712), a 24-gun sixth rate
 * HMS Rose (1757), a 20-gun sixth rate
 * HMS Rose (replica ship) or HMS Surprise, a 1970 replica
 * HMS Rose (1783), a 28-gun sixth rate
 * HM hired cutter Rose, a number of hired armed vessels named Rose
 * Rose (1786 EIC ship), a British East India Company ship
 * Rose (1806 ship), a British slave ship
 * MV Rose (1938), a Norwegian cargo ship in service 1938–1939
 * USS Rose, a Union Navy tugboat

Theatres

 * Rose Theatre, Brampton, Ontario
 * Rose Theatre, Kingston, England
 * The Rose (theatre), London, England

Other uses

 * Rose (symbolism)
 * Rose (cocktail), a cocktail made of vermouth and cherry eau de vie
 * Rose (goat)
 * Rose (heraldry), a common device in heraldry
 * Rose (mathematics), a sinusoid plotted in polar coordinates
 * Rose (topology), a topological space
 * Repression of heat shock gene expression (ROSE) element, an RNA element
 * ROSE Bikes, a producer of bicycles and equipment from Germany
 * Rose Law Firm, a legal practice in Little Rock, Arkansas
 * Rose, a water-scattering head of a watering can spout
 * The Rose Gaming Resort, an under-construction casino resort in Dumfries, Virginia, United States
 * Compass rose, a graphic used on maps
 * Gold dipped roses
 * Project ROSE, a Pakistan Air Force program
 * Tropical Storm Rose

title: Rose (disambiguation)


text:
Richard Barnes Mason

Richard Barnes Mason (January 16, 1797 – July 25, 1850) was an American military officer who was a career officer in the United States Army and the fifth military governor of California before it became a state. He came from a politically prominent American family and was a descendant of George Mason, a framer of the U.S. Constitution and father of the Bill of Rights.

Gen. Mason is especially important to the history of California, because as military governor of the occupied territory, he wrote the official report that led to the California Gold Rush.

Mason was "an aristocratic Virginian, a large portly man, six feet in height. He possessed all the peculiarities of a Southerner, accentuated," but he was known to have confined Jefferson Davis to quarters, who was under his command. A Lt. James Abert described him so, "It would be presumption in me to speak of so accomplished and well known an officer; but I cannot refrain from expressing my grateful sense of the kindness and hospitality with which we were received and treated by himself and his amiable lady, and indeed, by all the officers and ladies attached to the command."

Early life
"Richard Barnes Mason, born in Fairfax County, Virginia, January 16, 1797, was the son of George Mason and Elizabeth Mary Ann Barnes Hooe, who were married April 22, 1784." His grandfather was famous founder George Mason. Richard Barnes Mason inherited a considerable estate, consisting mostly of land and enslaved men and women. Upon the death of his father, he and his siblings frequently squabbled over the division of the estate and the profits made by selling enslaved men and women. In 1823, Richard complained to his brother George that "I wish you would make some exertion to pay me for Tom Clarke [an enslaved man whom the family sold]. It is now six years since you sold him, and I have not yet received a cent. It is not right that, you should, who inherited half my father's fortune, withhold from me, who got none, what is so justly my due." Like so many other enslavers and prominent Virginians, Mason's wealth was heavily dependent upon the labor and bodies of the people he held as slaves.

Military career
Mason was commissioned in the Army in 1817, to be stationed in the Mississippi Valley and the Great Lakes area. While serving, he frequently speculated in land and wrote to his family and friends with tips on where they could make the greatest fortune by speculating in land and relocating with the enslaved men and women who they claimed ownership of. In 1820, he told his brother to "advise Gerard by all means to sell his landed property and move with his Negroes to KY or the Missouri." Barnes frequently complained to his siblings about his low pay, and implored them to send his money or his "negroes" so that he could work them in Kentucky.

He served in the 1st U.S. Infantry during the Black Hawk War. In 1833, he transferred to the 1st U.S. Dragoons as its first Major. He was promoted to lieutenant colonel in 1836. During the Mexican–American War, he served in New Mexico Territory and California, rising to the rank of colonel in 1846.

Following the war, he was appointed military governor of California, serving from May 31, 1847, until April 13, 1849. When gold was discovered at Sutter's Mill, Mason made a report of the finding to President James K. Polk. That official description of the massive gold discovery is credited with sparking the California Gold Rush, resulting in the settlement of the land.

Mason died in 1850 at Jefferson Barracks in St. Louis, Missouri, and was buried at Bellefontaine Cemetery.

In the US Federal Census of 1850 for Jefferson Barracks, St. Louis County, Missouri, dated 18 August 1850, the following annotation is located at the bottom of the third page: "Brig Genl Mason died at Jefferson Barracks July 1849 of Cholera." However, The St. Louis Intelligencer reported the General's death on Saturday, July 27, 1850, (p. 3, cols. 1, 4.)

Marriage and children
Mason married Elizabeth Margaret Hunter on 28 January 1836. Richard and Elizabeth had three daughters:
 * Emma Twiggs Mason Wheaton (17 October 1836 – 16 February 1864)
 * Elizabeth Mary Ann Sally Mason (20 August 1838 – 19 November 1912)
 * Alice Graham Mason (c. 1843 – 10 February 1847)

Honors
In 1882, the Post at Point San Jose in San Francisco, California, was renamed Fort Mason in his honor, and served as an Army base for more than 100 years.

title: Richard Barnes Mason


text:
Talk:Liberty (disambiguation)

True or false: this article belongs at Liberty (disambiguation) with Liberty being a re-direct to Freedom. 66.245.125.9 23:11, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Positive and Negative liberty needs to be disambiguated; this is an important point, albeit, a contentious one.Edunoramus (talk) 17:21, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

As I suspected, it appears that my attempt at disambiguation between Positive liberty and Negative liberty has started an edit war. I'm just documenting it here. As my effort here is in good faith, I aim to negotiate and discuss changes to this disambiguation article. I welcome comments and questions as to my intent is as follows: specifically, I believe it is important to discuss the difference between free will and determinism. There is an attempt to imply and impose free will in a definition of Positive liberty and, it seems important for people that are concerned about Negative liberty to also be able to explain how Positive liberty should be and must be defined. I object to their position and argument because they do not seem able or willing to acknowledge the broader debate around Structure and agency as it relates to discussions and debates concerning free will versus Determinism in the context of defining Positive liberty; this is at the heart of the dispute here over the definition. Happy to discuss. Edunoramus (talk) 20:54, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

 * First, both phrases are partial title matches that are really little more than highly specialized subtopics of the primary topic liberty. Even if there were legitimate basis to include on the disambiguation page, the descriptions that go along with the entries should neutrally reflect the linked articles and not forward one POV in what appears to be contentious. For the record, I have no horse in this race and could not care less about any of the philosophical positions. older ≠ wiser 21:09, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * It's a disambiguation page, its purpose is to list articles that have the same or similar name. It's not an article in and of itself, and is not the place to discuss the finer points of libertarian ideology. ... disco spinster   talk  21:19, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

 * My aim is to ensure that Positive liberty and Negative liberty are disambiguated and properly represented in terms of the broader reasons why positive liberty keeps being deleted and/or the definition changed to reflect the involvement of free will-- there's a broader philosophical argument that dwells beneath this dispute about definitions and who gets to decide. It's worth discussing in detail to understand what's at stake here. That's why I started this conversation-- to discuss the issues. Edunoramus (talk) 21:31, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * And to be clear, we have not yet reached consensus on this talk page. Edunoramus (talk) 21:42, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * This is not the place for substantive hair-splitting in those philosophical/ideological topics. You perhaps are looking for Talk:Liberty or Talk:Positive liberty or Talk:Negative liberty or Talk:Two Concepts of Liberty or perhaps even Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Philosophy or Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Politics. older ≠ wiser 21:50, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

 * I agree. I am not interested in substantive hair-splitting here but, I do think it is important to clarify that the definition of Liberty has two perspectives, not one. Edunoramus (talk) 21:55, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * And yet that is precisely what you are engaging in. older ≠ wiser 22:02, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Clarification of differing perspectives on Liberty seems more fitting for Liberty than the disambiguation page that already links there, no? Mous3kteer (talk) 22:04, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

 * Personally, I feel it is important for the definitions to reflect two sides of the argument. On one side, we have the known definition of liberty : "freedom from restraint" but, on the other side-- we have the need for a definition that reflects the notion that social justice is a major part of equality, and in this case, liberty is not a synonym for a lack of obstacles, but being able to grasp those obstacles, to discuss and work to overcome them. Edunoramus (talk) 22:09, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Both sides of the argument are reflected in the Liberty article. This is not the Liberty article, this is merely a list of articles that have the word "liberty" in them. ... disco spinster   talk  22:17, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * But this definition has only represented one side of the argument. Here's how it works, I aim to talk about free will versus determinism, and then, I highlight the free-will side and, then substantively downplay the determinism side when in reality, Determinism is a complete topic unto itself: Free_will_and_determinism, notice how this redirected only to "free will", herein, lies the problem. Edunoramus (talk) 22:24, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Ok. As an example of the reality of the broader contentiousness here, I will change the Free_will_and_determinism link to point only to Determinism and, we'll so how quickly another edit war breaks out. Edunoramus (talk) 22:32, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Also, this is worth reviewing because I think it pertains to the conversation we are having: [pages|Disambiguation pages] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Edunoramus (talk • contribs) 22:48, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * While I personally think that redirect has an obvious choice in the fact that the Free Will page discusses the implied question of "does free will exist?" much more comprehensively than the Determinism page does, I think that starts to get off-topic for this talk page. That can be discussed further on those pages. I don't see how that affects whether the disamiguation page for Liberty contains article-level discussion of philosophies that are already covered on the main Liberty page. Mous3kteer (talk) 22:54, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * I disagree. I don't think the Free will page substantively covers the topic of Determinism and, that's my point. It's not off-topic, it's connected to the broader issue at hand; the people here that really care about promoting the free-will perspective ([]) are watching these articles closely. Therefore, the [point of view|Neutral point of view] is absent in articles relating to the broader context of never-to-be-settled free-will versus determinism argument. Edunoramus (talk) 23:06, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * This isn't an article. This is a page that deals with someone searching the word "liberty", and what page to send them to. If they wanted information on the concept of liberty, there's the Liberty page; if they wanted the shoe company, there's the Liberty Shoes page. Any finer discussion seems to me to belong on the respective pages, not this one. Mous3kteer (talk) 23:16, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes. I agree that the finer points should be discussed on the page itself, but the definition on the disambiguation page shouldn't imply that the definition is settled; it's not. What I added was deleted, "... have the power and resources to fulfill one's purposes" and, what was added there and was able to remain ("a right or immunity enjoyed by prescription or by grant") further supports the concept of negative liberty; all this further substantiates this is a problem and it is a NPOV problem. You all just collectively doubled down on proving your point, instead of listening to what I am saying. This is a war over meaning, I get it. And, I understand how the world works. I look forward to furthering our conversations here.
 * Again, you're in the wrong place to discuss whatever POV you perceive in the lead of the liberty article. older ≠ wiser 23:37, 6 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Again, you're not getting it. But, it's ok. We'll sort it out. BTW-- older ≠ wiser, makes no sense to me. I know what wisdom is... Talk soon. Edunoramus (talk) 01:03, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Liberty (disambiguation)


text:
Talk:Jean-Luc Godard

Anything about his antisemitism?
No, I thought not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.18.121.97 (talk) 14:18, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * For those who do not know what is being referred to, Godard has a long history of opposing Zionism, where the accusations of anti-semitism originated, and subsequent to that different political activists have analyzed his language to look for anti-semitic tropes. The general consensus has always been that he's not an anti-semite. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 20:33, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * 'Anti-Zionism' is by definition antisemitism. I couldn't give a flying squirrel about the 'general consensus' - his own words are sufficient proof that he was a vile Jew-hater. Obviously, Wikipedia - itself institutionally antisemitic - will not address this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.79.154.173 (talk) 19:56, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
 * I personally have no problem with Zionism, but the fact needs to be affirmed that anti-Zionism is not inherently anti-Semitic, and there has been no evidence presented that he was an anti-Semite. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 07:25, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Alphaville
I deleted the sentence which gives away the ending of Alphaville. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.30.19.26 (talk) 01:14, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Comment 1
Under 2: Godard and politics, this claim appears:

"..most of which remained unfinished or were refused showings.."

I call this a claim because I've never read that any of those films "remained unfinished", only that they were rarely shown. Does anyone know of a basis for this statement? If not, it should really be removed. --Chips Critic 23:11, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

"Criticism"
I took out the section entitled "criticism". Seemed to NPOV to me. It was just one quote by one Situationist saying he sucked. Someone out there thinks everyone sucks. It seemed like a sloppy attempt at balance.

Swiss?
The introduction describes Godard's nationality as Swiss, whcih I don't understand. He may be ethnically Swiss, but (to the best of my knowledge) he has lived his whole life in France, and is a French citizen.
 * Godard was born in France from a Swiss family. He was thus at first of French nationality. However, he became a citizen of Switzerland in 1940 so that he would not be drafted in France (WW2 at this time). Multiple sources in French and English for this fact, for example the Cannes festival website. The French version of wikipedia calls him a French-Swiss director.

USferdinand 05:14, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * LOL. He was 10 at the time. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.18.121.97 (talk) 14:16, 28 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I believe the year was 1950, so I'm guessing that may have been a typing error. I'm not sure what motivated the bizarre taunt above, apologies for that. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 20:42, 28 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Yes, he lives in Vaud. Many articles online make this clear.

Yes, Swiss
Godard has not been living all his life in France. He has been raised partly in France and partly in Switzerland and he has actually both Swiss and French citizenship. In the Fifties he went back to Switzerland to avoid being drafted into the French army and then he left Switzerland for South and Central America to avoid being drafted into the Swiss army. How can anybody be ethnically Swiss, given that Switzerland is made by Italian, French and German geographic, linguistic and cultural areas? 18/10/2005

Godard has lived and workeed in Rolle, Switzerland from the mid seventies to the present. 11/9/06

Godard has kept his French passport all his life, and I know for a fact that he votes in France. Thus, he cannot not be a French citizen. As for not "being drafted in 1940", that's highly dubious as he was 10 years old at the time.

Jean-Luc Godard: A Response
Jean Luc Godard In writing about Jean-Luc Godard, the author portrays a revolutionary, innovative, and alluring film maker. Godard is portrayed as being anti establishment (specifically anti-Hollywood), and is credited with the creation of a "loose on-the-run" formal quality that is unique to his style. The author credits Godard with the establishment of the "Nouvelle Vogue" or the French New Wave, which championed new ways of making and directing films. Jean-Luc Godard is seen as a prolific movie genius, instating new trends on how movies should be made and what message they should carry. In A bout de Soufflé (1960), the usage of real life settings, the cutting of scenes, and the fluidity of the story--solidified and formed the basis of what New Wave style stood for. However, Godard is not only seen as an artist, but also as a politically and socially conscious individual. He was part of the intellectual and artistic movement of post-WWII that, inspired by Marxist theories, championed social reforms and class equality. His impact on films survived the end of the New Wave movement, thus becoming one of the most influential film makers in French cinematic history. The reader is led to assume that Marxist and existential theories formed the base for Jean-Luc Godard's films. However, no overt Marxist message is ever present in any of his films before Week End (1969), in which he attacks consumerism and the "excess of the bourgeois trends". In his other films his political stance goes only as far as to demonstrate the complexity of social and class problems, refusing to take a clear stance on the issues. He allows for his viewers to think about the issues and formulate their own individual thoughts on the different issues. The reader can also deduce that the French Latin Quarter, in the post WWII years, was the breeding ground for anti-establishment movements and a haven for those that felt ignored, cheated, and oppressed by the post-war governments and phenomenons. It was in the Latin Quarter, the cine clubs, in which Godard started to champion and foment ideas of what would become the Nouvelle Vogue. It is also safe to assume that the continuing conservative de Gaulle years and his continuous frustration at the way things were going forced Godard to change the way his movies were made. At the beginning of his film career, his movies were highly influenced by film history and tradition; in the end he denounced cinematic history as being part of the "bourgeois" and being without merit".	The most convincing arguments made by the author about Jean-Luc Godard have to do with his craft. There is no doubt that he was a genius when it came to creating films and conveying powerful messages that tackled social and class issues.  The author stresses Godard's political affiliation as the base for all his works and cites Le Petit Soldat, which dealt with the Algerian War of Independence, as an example of how Godard used politics in a way to teach people about the complexities of the issue. In Le Chinoise (1967) he portrays the French youth as having been influenced by the ideas of the French communist party, demonstrating that Godard was in tune and was an active member of the subculture forming at the heels of de Gaulle’s restrictive right wing state. This movie foreshadowed the events of May 1968 and it served to give voice to the youth that formed part of the French sub cultural movement. The least convincing argument was in respect to the New Wave movement itself, the reader can't help but question how radical and how anti establishment the movement was. The author cites the start of the movement as having been begun as a form of movie criticism. Godard's films were critically and commercially successful, making it clear that the movement and to an extent Godard, worked within and had the acceptance of the broader society. The author made use of many different bibliographical sources. There was usage of books and films that dealt with the artist and his craft, however, the use of primary sources was limited. He based his writings on the interpretation of others and the evaluation of Godard's work was based on what film critics had to say. The author did do a good job of separating Godard's life into stages, signaling his changes from radical innovator, to extreme Maoist, to a more conventional character. There is a synopsis for every stage of Godard's work and an explanation of why the changes in trends and quality of the work occurred. He should, however, explore more thoroughly the events of 1968 and Godard's involvement with the latter. There should also be a closer inspection of his work post 1968 and why in the start of the 1980s Godard changed his philosophy and became “mainstream”.

 * Sorry to disappoint you after such a long post, but there is no 'author' - this is a collaborative project between many users. You seem to know a lot about Godard, so please contribute some of your knowledge to the article rather than this page. To get started, I recommend you click on the 'Help' or 'FAQ' buttons at the top of this page, so that you can learn about the Wikipedia project and decide how you can contribute. Essential rules are: try to maintain a neutral point of view, and avoid original research (only supply verifiable information). The Singing Badger 22:44, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Absence of Criticism
Is this article implying that there is no substantive, intelligent critique of Goddard's work as a director? Ruthfulbarbarity 04:16, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

An intelligent critique of Godard is an oxymoron. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Climenole (talk • contribs) 01:33, 10 September 2008 (UTC)
 * The verbal concept "intelligent" is not opposed to the verbal concept "critique." Therefore "intelligent critique" is not an oxymoron [sharp/dull].Lestrade (talk) 20:55, 14 November 2010 (UTC)Lestrade

Godard has often been accused of sexism, which I think should be dealt with in this article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 131.230.86.238 (talk) 16:02, 1 February 2007 (UTC).

The problem with the accusation of sexism against Godard is that Godard, to a certain extent, was working in fields where sexuality as a question was constantly being dealt with. Therefore, I fail to see how he can be sexist. I say that we shouldn't develop any critique of Godard for being sexist, but rather that we should consider what sexism is without Godard. What would sexism mean to us without Godard? Automatically, it seems as if we need Godard's work to even allow us to understand sexism. It is thus an oxymoron, a contradiction. It is impossible to even get at sexism without Godard. Therefore, sexism on the Godard wikipage is totally irrelvant. It does not belong there, because I have just proved that it is irrelevant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Climenole (talk • contribs) 05:54, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

Actually, there is a strong feminist reading in most of Godard's new wave work. Where has he been criticized as being sexist? The reason the female characters are often presented as materalistic, prostitutes, etc is part of his critical aesthetic. Vivre sa Vie and 2 ou 3 choses.. in particular have strong feminist tones, detailing the commodification and exploitation of women in society as well as using prostitution as a general metaphor for proletariat life under capitalism. The characters are meant to be viewed objectively as humans. Essentially calling Godard sexist for making films with prostitutes in is the same as calling him an imperial capitalist for making films with oil company logos in. Szaala4 (talk) 13:01, 14 March 2009 (UTC)

Divorce with Anna Karina
I think they divorced in 1967 (but I can find any dates between 1965 and 1968). In the French version, they divorced around 1966 in Godard's page and in 1968 in Karina's page USferdinand 11:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

According to EVERYTHING IS CINEMA by Richard Brody (page 186) JLG and Karina were divorced in 1964, after she had an affair Maurice Ronet. This is a quite important fact, since they made three more films together after this date: Alphaville, Pierrot le fou & Made in the USA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.83.3.192 (talk) 14:41, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

No Photo???
We need a photo for this article (Lowdark Innuendo 14:43, 14 November 2007 (UTC))

--- I just emailed jean luc godard to ask for a cleared photo if i dont hear from him ill email janus films to ask for one--Kr4ft (talk) 20:54, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Current activity
We haven't heard anyhting about Godard since Notre Musique in 2004. Does anyone know what's going on with him? He's 77, and I have no idea the state of his health. --Scottandrewhutchins (talk) 20:51, 25 September 2008 (UTC)

Godard recently completed a short called Une Catastrophe for 2008 Viennale Film Festival and he is currently busy working on his new film Socialisme. The trailers of the film have been out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Godardmelville (talk • contribs) 21:54, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Artistic licence
I have just watched an interview with J-L Godard regarding his direction of the car crash scene in Le Mepris. I find i difficult to believe that his choice of staging was determined by anything more than the cost of wrecking an Alpha & that his explanation was extremely disingenuous. 121.91.214.205 (talk) 05:29, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

You didn't watch the scene carefully enough. They had the car in excellent condition, and they wrecked the car. The car is shown wrecked, after the crash. They went to the expense of wrecking the car. Yet the film does not show the crash. Most filmmakers would have shown the crash, but Godard made a conscious decision not to show it. What's not to get? Furthermore, it is worth noting that Le Mepris was the only movie Godard made that was financed from the get-go by an American studio. It was his biggest budget movie he ever made. Your argument makes no sense. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.28.77.84 (talk) 06:48, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Re: The One Man Edit War
The IP who is changing the dates on Masculin, féminin and Two or Three Things I Know About Her insists that the years of those films are 1965 and 1966 respectively. He challenged us to check with IMDB which would prove him right: I did and it of course states that the years for those films are 1966 and 1967 respectively. He then goes on to ignore this and state he has lots of books backing him up. I believe he is now blocked for edit warring and lack of civility, but I would like to bring this issue to this talk page. I have two links (of many possible links) which of course show that Masculin, féminin is from 1966 and Two or Three Things I Know About Her is from 1967. I hope this settles everything: I hesitate to feed anything, but in the interest of transparency, we should address and settle this here.  freshacconci  talk talk  22:00, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
 * This seems to have been long settled, but I'll just add for official consensus that yes, the films are respectively released in 1966 and 1967; 1965 and 1966 is when they were initially shot. YouCanDoBetter (talk) 07:27, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Most famous Godard quote
"Cinema is truth twenty-four times a second" could should be included somewhere in this article. Paul Fieberg, Paul@feebs.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.96.85.140 (talk) 12:57, 17 July 2010 (UTC)

Lack of Citations
The entire article as I found it today is very inadequately referenced. This is inexplicable given the notability and the abundance of sources. I've added some citations (to the introdutcion and the section 'Film Criticism') but I think this requires special attention. Bubka42 (talk) 10:49, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

removing POV tag with no active discussion per Template:POV
I've removed an old neutrality tag from this page that appears to have no active discussion per the instructions at Template:POV:
 * This template is not meant to be a permanent resident on any article. Remove this template whenever:
 * There is consensus on the talkpage or the NPOV Noticeboard that the issue has been resolved
 * It is not clear what the neutrality issue is, and no satisfactory explanation has been given
 * In the absence of any discussion, or if the discussion has become dormant.

Since there's no evidence of ongoing discussion, I'm removing the tag for now. If discussion is continuing and I've failed to see it, however, please feel free to restore the template and continue to address the issues. Thanks to everybody working on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:12, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

Bad reference to French version
English version of 29 june 2014 at 02:04 contains a bad reference to the French version. It erroneously points to fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Parvulesco I randomly looked at a much older version, where the error also ocurred. (The French version can be reached from e.g. the German version.) I don't known how to correct this error. 81.232.46.72 (talk) 19:50, 22 July 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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"Breathless" vs "A bout de souffle"
Hello All,

I"m just writing to inquire about how we are referencing "breathless" in the article. In my experience, when you write the English name of a foreign work, then quote it's original title, it can then on be referenced by the original title.

This, to me, gives the work the proper respect and is more correct than the alternative. It's not inherently disrespectful to the work to call it its English name but I wanted a quick write up to probe for opinions on the matter to reach a mutually beneficial conclusion for the article in question :) Chewbakadog (talk) 22:35, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Per WP:COMMON, we go by whichever name is commonly used in English sources. I believe the English title is used far more often than the French title. If I was writing an academic paper on the film, I'd personally go with the French title, but for an English-language encyclopedia, if the English name is more common, it's the one that should be used, even in subsequent mentions in the article.  freshacconci  talk to me  23:03, 21 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I have reverted Chewbakadog's edits for the policy reasons givne by Freshacconci, which I agree with, and which accord to common sense. BMK (talk) 00:00, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

Dziga Vertov Group
I've changed the description of the Dziga Vertov Group under the Films section of Revolutionary Period from socialist-idealist to just socialist a couple times, and both times it has been almost immediately reversed by the same person. This does not appear to me to be an accurate description of the Dziga Vertov Group, considering it was formed as a Marxist film group. Marxism is philosophically materialist, and in complete opposition to idealism. I'm curious as to why someone is so adamant about the group being referred to as something that doesn't appear to accurately describe it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alistoriv (talk • contribs) 00:55, 21 May 2016 (UTC)

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Death
In honour of Jean-Luc Godard, I thought I might just write down one of the great quotations from his chef d'oeuvre, A Bout de Souffle:

''"C'est quoi votre ambition dans la vie?" "Devenir immortel et puis, mourir"''

"What is your goal in life?" "Become immortal and then, die"

May he rest in peace EcheveriaJ (talk) 20:42, 13 September 2022 (UTC)

 * Thank you for that—to which I offer this:
 * "Nearly everything is really interesting if you go into it deeply enough." - Richard Feynman Cl3phact0 (talk) 06:57, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

npov
it calls him “arguably” the most influential filmmaker blah blah blah. Should not be using “arguably” from a neutral pov 2601:249:4380:53E0:0:0:0:DB7B (talk) 00:45, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

 * While I see you point, "arguably" could be a neutral pov if it is generally an accepted position. An example (which is the first thing that came to mind) is spaghetti carbonara is "arguably" an Italian dish. Would you agree that this is a neutral pov because it is a generally accepted thought? Jurisdicta (talk) 02:32, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

 * Your rebuttal isn't true. Saying whether something is an Italian dish is factual because we can determine whether it's an Italian dish. We cannot determine who is the most influential French filmmaker. The argumemt part here is a clear expression of POV. Roman Reigns Fanboy (talk) 09:15, 21 September 2022 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:07, 21 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Anna Karina, posters in Paris Metro, Fébruary 2020.jpg

Today's wordsmithing edits
Greetings Wikipedians! I have endeavored to smooth out the writing; specifically certain sentences addressing multiple thoughts, strung together with "and." The section title "Anna Karina and A Woman Is a Woman" doesn't seem appropriate because it mostly talks about "The Little Soldier." The statement that "Little Soldier" was the first time Godard worked with Karina was confusing because she first appeared in "A Woman Is A Woman", which was released before "The Little Soldier." Here again, that complexity can be addressed in the separate article about The Little Soldier. Subor doesn't need to be mentioned in this section there's further discussion of the film later in this article (which I found disjointed) and a whole separate article about the film.Cordially, BuzzWeiser196 (talk) 12:57, 22 September 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jean-Luc Godard