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David Teniers the Younger

David Teniers the Younger or David Teniers II (bapt. 15 December 1610 – 25 April 1690) was a Flemish Baroque painter, printmaker, draughtsman, miniaturist painter, staffage painter, copyist and art curator. He was an extremely versatile artist known for his prolific output. He was an innovator in a wide range of genres such as history painting, genre painting, landscape painting, portrait and still life. He is now best remembered as the leading Flemish genre painter of his day. Teniers is particularly known for developing the peasant genre, the tavern scene, pictures of collections and scenes with alchemists and physicians.

He was court painter and the curator of the collection of Archduke Leopold Wilhelm, the art-loving Governor General of the Habsburg Netherlands. He created a printed catalogue of the collections of the Archduke. He was the founder of the Antwerp Academy, where young artists were trained to draw and sculpt in the hope of reviving Flemish art after its decline following the death of the leading Flemish artists Rubens and Anthony van Dyck in the early 1640s. He influenced the next generation of Northern genre painters as well as French Rococo painters such as Antoine Watteau.

Initial career in Antwerp

David Teniers the Younger was born in Antwerp as the son of David Teniers the Elder and Dymphna de Wilde. His father was a painter of altarpieces and small-scale cabinet paintings. David was baptised at St. James' Church on 15 December 1610. Three of his brothers also became painters: Juliaan III (1616–1679), Theodoor (1619–1697) and Abraham (1629–1670). The work of his two oldest brothers is virtually unknown. The work of his youngest brother Abraham was very close to David's own.

From 1626, David the younger studied under his father. A collaborator of his father early on in his career, the father and son pair created together a series of twelve panels recounting stories from Torquato Tasso's epic Gerusalemme Liberata (Museo del Prado, Madrid). His father was frequently in financial straits and his debts landed him occasionally in jail. David the younger had to make copies of old masters in order to support the family. In 1632–33, he was registered as 'wijnmeester' (i.e. the son of a master) in the Antwerp Guild of Saint Luke.

A David Teniers is recorded in the Antwerp records as having been issued in 1635 a passport to visit Paris. The artist likely also travelled to England as on 29 December 1635 of the same year he signed in Dover a contract with the Antwerp art dealer Chrisostomos van Immerseel, then resident in England.

Rubens received in 1636 a commission from the Spanish king Philip IV of Spain to create a series of mythological paintings to decorate the Torre de la Parada, a hunting lodge of the king near Madrid. The mythological scenes depicted in the series were largely based on the Metamorphoses of Ovid. Rubens realized this important commission with the assistance of a large number of Antwerp painters such as Jacob Jordaens, Cornelis de Vos, Jan Cossiers, Peter Snayers, Thomas Willeboirts Bosschaert, Theodoor van Thulden, Jan Boeckhorst, Peeter Symons, Jacob Peter Gowy and others, who worked after Rubens' modellos. Teniers was also invited to participate in this project and make a picture after Rubens' design. That painting is considered lost.

Teniers married into the famous Brueghel artist family when Anna Brueghel, daughter of Jan Brueghel the Elder, became his wife on 22 July 1637. Rubens, who had been the guardian of Anna Brueghel after her father's death, was a witness at the wedding. Through his marriage Teniers was able to cement a close relationship with Rubens who had been a good friend and frequent collaborator with his wife's father. This is borne out by the fact that at the baptism of the first of the couple's seven children David Teniers III, Rubens' second wife, Hélène Fourment, was the godmother. Around this time Teniers started to gain a reputation as an artist and he received many commissions. The Guild of St George (Oude Voetboog Guild), a local militia in Antwerp, commissioned a group portrait in 1643 (Hermitage Museum).

Teniers was a dean of the Antwerp Guild of Saint Luke in 1644–1645. When Archduke Leopold Wilhelm of Austria became the Governor General of the Southern Netherlands in 1647, the Archduke soon became an important patron of Teniers. The success went to the artist's head. He claimed that his grandfather Julian Taisnier, who had moved from Ath (now located in the Walloon province of Hainaut) to Antwerp in the 16th century had been from a family that had been entitled to bear a coat of arms. Teniers started to use this coat of arms consisting of a croaching bear on a field of gold encircled by three green acorns. His brother-in-law Jan Baptist Borrekens reported him and Teniers was prohibited from using the coat of arms.

Court painter in Brussels
Around 1650, Teniers moved to Brussels to formally enter into the service of the Archduke as a "pintor de cámara" (court painter). The Archduke asked him to be the keeper of the art gallery he had set up in his palace in Brussels. In that position he succeeded the Antwerp painter Jan van den Hoecke who had earlier worked in Vienna for the Archduke. One of Teniers's key tasks in this position was to look after and enlarge the Archducal collection. Teniers put together a collection for the art gallery which included his own work and that of other artists, which he selected. He was involved in the purchase of a large number of Italian, and especially Venetian, masterpieces from the confiscated collections of Charles I of England and his Jacobite supporters. One of his most important successes was the acquisition of the major part (about 400 paintings) of the collection owned by James Hamilton, 1st Duke of Hamilton, who had been a close associate and favorite of the English King and was, like the King, executed in 1649. The Conde de Fuensaldaña, then acting as Leopold Wilhelm's lieutenant in the Southern Netherlands, also sent Teniers to England in 1651 to purchase paintings at the Pembroke and presumably other sales. The collection of the Archduke grew to incorporate about 1,300 works, mainly of leading Italian artists such as Raphael, Giorgione, Veronese and Titian (15 works by this artist alone) as well as of famous Northern artists such as Hans Holbein the Younger, Pieter Bruegel the Elder and Jan van Eyck. The collection became the foundation and nucleus of the collection of the Kunsthistorisches Museum in Vienna.

The Archduke also promoted Teniers's art by giving his compositions to other European rulers as presents. As a result, many of these rulers also became patrons of the artist. The bishop of Ghent Anthonius Triest, the Stadtholder Prince Frederik Hendrik of Orange, Christina, Queen of Sweden, William II, Prince of Orange and Philip IV of Spain were among his patrons. Only king Louis XIV of France does not seem to have liked Teniers's work. According to a story, when presented with a peasant scene by Teniers the French king asked for the 'magots' (baboons) to be removed from his sight as soon as possible.

Teniers bought a house close to the Brussels court and was promoted in 1655 to 'camerdiender' or 'ayuda de cámara' (chamberlain) by the Archduke. It was most unusual for a painter to serve as chamberlain at the Spanish court. In fact, there was only one other case, which dates from the same time: that of Velázquez, whose aim was also to be elevated to the nobility. Not long after the Archduke resigned from his position as Governor General of the Spanish Netherlands and returned to Vienna with his large art collection. A Flemish priest, who was also a gifted still life painter, Jan Anton van der Baren, moved with Leopold Wilhelm from Brussels to Vienna where he was the successor of Teniers as the director of the archducal gallery in Vienna. The new Governor General of the Spanish Netherlands, Don Juan of Austria continued the support for the artist that he had enjoyed from his predecessor the Archduke Leopold Wilhelm. The early Flemish biographer Cornelis de Bie reports in his Het Gulden Cabinet published in 1662 that Don Juan was an amateur artist who regularly asked Teniers to give him instructions in art. Don Juan was so taken by Teniers that he even drew a portrait of Teniers son.

Teniers's wife died on 11 May 1656. On 21 October of the same year, the artist remarried. His second wife was Isabella de Fren, the 32-year-old daughter of Andries de Fren, secretary of the Council of Brabant. It has been suggested that Teniers's main motive for marrying the 'spinster' was her rather elevated position in society. His second wife also brought him a large dowry. The couple had four children, two sons and two daughters. His second wife's attitude to Teniers's children from his first marriage would later divide the family in legal battles. Teniers petitioned the king of Spain to be admitted to the aristocracy but gave up when the condition imposed was that he should give up painting for money.

In 1660, Teniers's Theatrum Pictorium was published in Brussels. When Don Juan of Austria ended his term as Governor General of the Southern Netherlands in January 1659, Teniers appears to have withdrawn from active court duty. He purchased from the husband of Hélène Fourment, the widow of Rubens, a country estate called the 'Drij Toren' ('Three towers') located in Perk, in the environs of Brussels and Vilvoorde. Teniers did not cut his links with Antwerp while living and working in Brussels. Teniers maintained close contacts with artists as well as the influential art dealers in Antwerp. In particular; the firm of Matthijs Musson was instrumental in building Teniers's international reputation.

At the behest of his Antwerp colleagues of the Guild of Saint Luke, Teniers became the driving force behind the foundation of the Academy in Antwerp, only the second of such type of institution in Europe after the one in Paris. The artist used his connections and sent his son David to Madrid to assist in the negotiation to successfully obtain the required licence from the Spanish King. This involved Teniers's son presenting a very expensive golden watch to one of the courtiers who could influence the Spanish King's decision on the matter. As soon as he received the royal charter creating the Antwerp Royal Academy of Fine Arts, Teniers travelled with it from Brussels to Antwerp and celebrated the accomplishment with a big banquet in the Schilderskamer of the Guild of St. Luke. When in 1674 the existence of the Academy was threatened, he again used his influence at the Spanish court to save the institution.

As a court painter, Teniers was not required to become member of a local guild. Nevertheless, he became a member of the Brussels Guild of Saint Luke in 1675. In his later years, Teniers was also active as an art dealer and he organised art auctions. This brought him into conflict with his fellow artists who started proceedings to prohibit him from holding an auction in 1683. Teniers argued that he needed the proceeds of the auction because his children were suing him for their mother's part of her estate. The matter was finally settled between the parties themselves. In his final years, he lost his second wife and was involved in further lawsuits over her estate with the two surviving children of his second wife. There is evidence that in these years he suffered a decline in his prosperity and that his output was diminished.

On 25 April 1690, David Teniers died in Brussels.

His pupils included his son David, Ferdinand Apshoven the Younger, Thomas van Apshoven, Jan de Froey, Aert Maes, Abraham Teniers, and Aert van Waes. Gillis van Tilborgh is also presumed to have studied under Teniers.

Subjects

Teniers was known as a hard worker who was extremely prolific. About two thousand paintings are thought to have been painted by the artist. He was extremely versatile and tried his hand at all the genres then practised in Flanders including history, genre, landscape, portrait and still life.

Teniers is particularly known for developing the peasant genre, the tavern scene and scenes with alchemists and physicians. He also painted many religious scenes among which stand out his many compositions treating the subjects of the Temptation of St Anthony and hermit saints in grottoes or deserts.

Evolution
Teniers's early works show the influence of Elsheimer. This influence was transmitted to him through his father, who had studied under Elsheimer in Rome and is regarded as a follower of Elsheimer. Elsheimer was mainly known for his small cabinet paintings characterised by their innovative treatment of landscape and light effects. Another major influence on David Teniers the Younger's early work was the work of the Flemish painter Adriaen Brouwer. Adriaen Brouwer was working in Antwerp from the mid 1620s to the mid 1630s after an extended residence in Haarlem. He was an important innovator of genre painting through his vivid depictions of peasants, soldiers and other 'lower class' individuals, whom he showed engaged in drinking, smoking, card or dice playing, fighting, music making etc. usually in taverns or rustic settings. Brouwer also contributed to the development of the genre of tronies, i.e. head or facial studies, which investigate varieties of expression. Teniers's early work up to the end of the thirties was very close to that of Brouwer in terms of subject matter, technique, color and composition. He took from Brouwer the gross types, placed in the characteristic smoky, dimly lit taverns. He also treated these subjects with the same monochrome tonality as Brouwer.

The personal style of Teniers was visible from the outset. An important distinction was that unlike Brouwer who placed these genre scenes mainly indoors, Teniers gradually moved his scenes into the open air and started to give the landscape a major place in his work from the 1640s. This was a common development in Flemish painting at the time. The smoky and monochrome tonality of the interiors from the 1630s was replaced by a luminous, silvery atmosphere, in which the peasants sit at their ease, conversing or playing cards. These paintings show a radical move towards a more positive attitude towards country life and the peasantry than was reflected in his earlier satirical pieces influenced by Brouwer.

Teniers's later works such as his Flemish kermesse (1652, Royal Museums of Fine Arts of Belgium, Brussels) breathe an idyllic Arcadian spirit. The peasant characters have lost their ungainly appearance and people from the higher social classes are now mixed in with the common people. The artist's new status as court painter of Archduke Leopold Wilhelm from 1651 may have contributed to this 'gentrification' of his work. This type of rural scene became very popular. In many of Teniers's late paintings, the excitement of his earlier peasant feasts is gradually replaced by tranquil scenes populated with only a few human figures. In this later period Teniers also adopted a more painterly and looser style.

Teniers's scenes with peasants were so well known that compositions with this subject came to be called 'tenierkens' ('small teniers') and tapestries with peasant scenes were referred to as 'Teniers tapestries'. Teniers did not design any Teniers tapestries himself. Only a few of these tapestries can be directly linked to works by Teniers. Teniers tapestries were particularly popular from the last third of the 17th century and well into the 18th century. The Teniers tapestries were woven by many Brussels weavers and also in other centers such as Lille, Oudenaarde, Beauvais and Madrid.

Country and pastoral landscapes
In the early 1640s Teniers began to paint more landscape paintings and in these he developed his own pictorial language. He started to focus on the Flemish countryside as a subject in itself rather than solely as a backdrop to his outdoor peasant scenes. In his landscapes he paid particular attention to the variegated light of the Flemish countryside in different weather conditions. In his River landscape with rainbow he included thin, dark clouds, with streaking sun rays piercing through rain and a rainbow in the left background. Along with Rubens, Teniers was among the first Flemish 17th-century artists to include rainbows in his compositions, not for their religious or allegorical meaning, but rather as another means by which to showcase his careful study of nature. Other examples of this include other works from the mid 1640s such as The Reaping (Hermitage Museum). Teniers depicted real as well as imaginary landscapes. Although he did not intend these works to be topographically accurate, he spent a lot of time sketching in the countryside. This explains why certain motifs recur in his landscape oeuvre.

In the 1660s Teniers started to paint pastoral scenes. It is likely that the increased prominence of rural life and nature in his work of that period was connected to his 1662 purchase of Drij Toren, a country house in Perk in which he maintained a studio. In contrast to the sophisticated compositions he painted as a court painter, the landscapes he painted at Perk stand out by their simplicity. They expressed an Arcadian view of life in the countryside and eulogized the advantages of a peaceful existence on the land. He presented the rural life as happy and carefree. The landscapes themselves were a combination of fantasy and reality. The Arcadian spirit was conveyed through stock motifs such as cattle and sheep, bridges and classical ruins on a hill as well as through the general tonality and style of these works.

Teniers's interest in pastoral paintings has been linked to his ambition to be elevated to the nobility. Agriculture and animal husbandry were regarded as proper occupations of the nobility. An estate in the countryside was therefore a necessary part of the status of nobles of that time. Teniers had himself acquired the country estate Drij Toren in Perk near Rubens' country estate Het Steen. Teniers painted his own country estate several times. In the View of Drij Toren at Perk, with David Teniers' family (c. 1660, Boughton House) Teniers placed his estate in the center of the composition and included a portrait of his family, servants and tenant farmers at the harvest. He paid homage to Rubens by including Rubens' nearby estate called Het Steen in the far distance. He depicted himself in the picture as a country gentleman, who through his graceful bearing and costly clothing sets himself apart from the servants and toiling peasants in the picture. Teniers also made many paintings of other chateaux and estates. Only a few of the chateaux and estates he represented in these paintings are of known estates. It is believed that they are imaginary creations intended to present a generic view of what a country estate should look like: large, stately and dominating the countryside around it. These paintings often include depictions of the tenant farmers who pay deference to their masters. They thus give expression to the prevalent worldview of the ruling class of his day, of which Teniers aspired to be a part, which was that the good and humble peasant would always show reverence to his noble lord.

Gallery paintings
Teniers painted 10 paintings representing the collection of the Archduke Leopold Wilhelm in Brussels. Of these only three are dated. Nine are painted on canvas and one on copper. The paintings are believed to depict a fictitious space rather than the actual location of the Archduke's collection in his Brussels palace. The paintings shown in them, however, are known to have formed part of the Archducal collection.

Teniers's paintings of the Archduke's collection fall into a genre referred to as 'gallery paintings' or 'pictures of collections'. Gallery paintings typically depict large rooms in which many paintings and other precious items are displayed in elegant surroundings. Antwerp artists Jan Brueghel the Elder and Frans Francken the Younger were the first to create paintings of art and curiosity collections in the 1620s. The genre was further developed by Hieronymus Francken the Younger, Willem van Haecht and Hendrik Staben. The genre became immediately popular in Antwerp where many artists practised it in Teniers's time: they included artists such as Jan Brueghel the Younger, Cornelis de Baellieur, Hans Jordaens, Gonzales Coques, Jan van Kessel the Elder and Hieronymus Janssens. Later practitioners included Teniers's presumed pupil Gillis van Tilborgh as well as Wilhelm Schubert van Ehrenberg, Jacob de Formentrou and Balthasar van den Bossche.

Teniers played an important role in the development of the genre of gallery paintings and his mid-17th-century gallery paintings of the collection of Archduke Leopold Wilhelm are among the most famous examples of the genre. The earliest works in this genre depicted art objects together with other items such as scientific instruments or peculiar natural specimens. These paintings expressed the Early Modern culture of curiosity, in which art works and scientific instruments were mixed together in so-called cabinets of curiosities. The persons populating the galleries in these early works are 'virtuosi' who appear as keen to discuss scientific instruments as to admire an artwork. Teniers transformed the genre in the mid 17th century by moving away from the depiction of cabinets of curiosities to depicting art galleries, and in particular the collection of Archduke Leopold Wilhelm. In the final, 'late' phase of the genre from c. 1660 to 1690, artists such as Teniers's pupil Gillis van Tilborgh went further in removing non-art objects from the gallery and introduced figures in the gallery setting who claimed elite status by virtue of their knowledge of (and, as in some cases artists are present, ability to produce) art. Teniers first depicted Archduke Leopold Wilhelm with his collection in two pictures dated 1651 (one in Petworth House and the other in the Royal Museums of Fine Arts of Belgium). The only other dated gallery painting by Teniers is dated 1653. The fact that the other gallery paintings of Teniers are not dated has made it difficult to establish a chronology and evolution of his work in this genre. Two of the ten known gallery paintings with Archduke Leopold Wilhelm have similar compositions and include the same paintings: the large, undated canvas in the Kunsthistorisches Museum likely followed the equally large painting dated 1651 in Petworth House. The others are all independently composed and display different works or when the same works are included they are hung in a different order. Although Teniers's gallery paintings depict pictures known to have been part of the Archduke's collection, the precise arrangements in which he depicted those pictures is believed to be fictional. Teniers strove in these paintings to arrive at a visual survey of the collection. Some of the paintings show the Archduke visiting the collection accompanied by courtiers and other art collectors. Teniers included in some a portrait of himself apparently in the act of providing his patron some explanation on a particular work of art in the collection. In the Archduke Leopold Willem in his gallery at Brussels (c. 1650, Kunsthistorisches Museum) Teniers included a portrait of Jan Anton van der Baren (the third man from the right) who later followed the Archduke upon his return to Vienna where he took over Teniers's role as director and cataloger of the Archduke's collection.

It is likely that these gallery paintings of the Archduke's collection were painted to memorialize and eulogize it and anyone associated with it. The gallery painting with Archduke Leopold Wilhelm in Peftord House was made on copper. This was unusual for a picture of such a large size and was presumably done so that the Archduke could send it as a present to Philip IV of Spain. By sending this work to Philip IV, the Archduke may have intended to pay homage to his uncle as a prominent connoisseur of Italian painting known for his large collection at the Royal Alcazar of Madrid. His secondary intention may have been to demonstrate to the King that his collection in Brussels could emulate the King's collection in Madrid. As in the 17th century the power of a prince was no longer judged solely based on his military success, but even more so on his taste in, and appreciation of, art, the Archduke thus wanted to show that he could hold his own against the King.

Teniers also painted a few gallery paintings showing artists at work or cognoscenti inspecting a collection. An example is A picture gallery with two men examining a seal and a red chalk drawing, and a monkey present (At Sotheby's New York, 24 January 2002, lot 169). These gallery paintings are heavy with symbolism and allegory and are a reflection of the intellectual preoccupations of the age, including the cultivation of personal virtue and the importance of connoisseurship. They accentuate the notion that the powers of discernment associated with connoisseurship are socially superior to or more desirable than other forms of knowing. Teniers also created an allegorical or satirical interpretation of a gallery painting in the drawing Monkeys' Masquerade: The Painter’s Studio, an Artist Seated (British Museum). The drawing is clearly a pun on the popular 'art as the ape of nature' present in many pictures of collections through the inclusion of a monkey among the art lovers.

Theatrum pictorium
During his tenure as keeper of Archduke Leopold Wilhelm's collection, Teniers undertook the preparation and publication of the first ever illustrated catalog of old master paintings. His brother Abraham Teniers was involved in organizing the publication of the work. The first official publication of the work in bound book format was published by Hendrick Aertssens in Brussels in 1660 (although the title page states the date as 1658). The title page of the book refers to it as 'Hoc Amphiteatrum Picturarum' ('This amphitheatre of pictures'). The publication is now often referred to as Theatrum pictorium ('Theatre of Paintings'). The cover of the Theatrum pictorium contained a bust portrait of the Archduke with a dedication to the Archduke as well as introductions in Latin, French, Spanish and Dutch. The title page clarifies that Teniers funded the publication project out of his own pocket. The Theatrum pictorium was published in four languages (Latin, French, Dutch, and Spanish) and further editions appeared in 1673 and 1688 and in the 18th century. The last edition was published in 1755.

The publication comprised 246 engravings of important Italian paintings in the art collection of Archduke Leopold Wilhelm. While the project was initially planned to include the entire collection of the Archduke, the Archduke returned to Vienna before the project was completed. As a result, ultimately only a series of 246 plates was produced, of which 243 depicted about half of the Italian paintings then owned by the Archduke). In the preparation of this project, Teniers first painted reduced modelli after the original works on panels of roughly 17 by 25 in dimensions. These were then engraved on the same scale by a pool of 12 engravers. Teniers used full colour in the modelli, rather than grisaille.  This could mean that he intended these reproductions to function as independent records of some of these Italian paintings in the Archduke's collection.  From the many modelli, which have been preserved, it is obvious that Teniers's copies constitute a true record of the originals even while he left out details and painted them in his typical fluid and transparent manner. The engraving of the catalog by engravers who worked after the modelli, not the originals, was started by 1656. In the 17th century there existed no efficient method for inverting images. As a result, most of the prints in the catalog are reverse images of the originals. Each print gives the name of the author of the original work on the left hand side (indicated by the letter 'p' for 'pinxit', Latin for 'painted by') and the engraver of the print on the right hand side (indicated by the letter 's' for 'sculpsit', Latin for 'engraved by'). Some editions also indicated the original dimensions of the paintings.

Teniers's modelli and the Theatrum pictorium serve as a record for some important paintings the whereabouts of which are currently unknown. For instance, the modelli in the Metropolitan Museum of Art of the Old Age in Search of Youth attributed by Teniers to Correggio and the Adam and Eve after Padovanino are the most important records of these lost paintings.

The Theatrum Pictorium had an important impact on the manner in which collections were organised, appreciated and published and continued to be used as a reference book during the 18th century.

Singeries

Teniers contributed to the spread of the genre of the 'monkey scene', also called 'singerie' (which in French means a 'comical grimace, behaviour or trick' and is derived from 'singe', the French word for monkey). Comical scenes with monkeys appearing in human attire and a human environment are a pictorial genre that was initiated in Flemish painting in the 16th century and was subsequently further developed in the 17th century. Monkeys were regarded as shameless and impish creatures and excellent imitators of human behaviour. These depictions of monkeys enacting various human roles were a playful metaphor for all the folly in the world. In 16th century visual and literary sources, the image of the monkey was typically used to symbolise the unreasonable and foolish aspect of human nature. It is this quality that Teniers refers to in his Allegory of Vanitas (1633, private collection) in which he included a chained monkey in fool's clothes who is looking through a telescope from the wrong end. In addition, monkeys were associated with the Antichrist and the Devil and regarded as the opposite of god. In Dürer's print Madonna with a monkey the Virgin, who represents holiness, is contrasted with the monkey chained at her feet who symbolizes evil.

The Flemish engraver Pieter van der Borcht introduced the singerie as an independent theme around 1575 in a series of prints, which were strongly embedded in the artistic tradition of Pieter Bruegel the Elder. These prints were widely disseminated and the theme was then picked up by other Flemish artists. The first one to do so was the Antwerp artist Frans Francken the Younger, who was quickly followed by Jan Brueghel the Elder, the Younger and Sebastiaen Vrancx. David Teniers the Younger, following in the footsteps of his father-in-law Jan Brueghel the Elder, became the principal practitioner of the genre and developed it further with his younger brother Abraham Teniers. The two brothers were able to cater to the prevailing taste in the art market and were thus instrumental in spreading the genre outside Flanders. Later in the 17th century Nicolaes van Verendael started to paint these 'monkey scenes' as well.

Teniers painted singeries in two distinctive periods. During the first period in the early 1630s he was still working in Antwerp. He returned to the subject in the 1660s when he was working in Brussels as the court painter of Archduke Leopold Wilhelm. In the early period Teniers's singeries typically depicted monkeys as soldiers. From this period dates his Festival of monkeys (1633, private collection). Monkey soldiers are shown enjoying themselves in front of a tent set up on what is likely a town square with a landscape in the distance. Food and wine are in abundant supply. On the tent is pinned an image of an owl with spectacles. The owl recalls the Flemish proverb 'wat baten kaars en bril als de uil niet zien en lezen wil' ('what good are candle and spectacles if the owl does not want to see and read'). The Festival of monkeys can be regarded as a criticism of the role of 'fools in high places'. Teniers evidently identified close with the singerie genre in this early period of his career as two monkey scenes – the Guardroom with monkeys and the Festival of monkeys – are reproduced in his self-portrait of 1635, known as The Artist in his studio (private collection, a workshop copy was sold at Sotheby's New York sale of 27 May 2004 as lot 16). The artist is shown sitting in front of an easel holding his brush and palette. In an exceptions combination of the genre of artist studio and gallery painting, some young connoisseurs are visiting the artist's studio and are examining some of his works.

Guardroom scenes

Teniers painted several guardroom scenes or corps de garde such as The Sentinel (1642). A guardroom scene is a type of genre scene that became popular in the mid-17th century, particularly in the Dutch Republic. In Flanders Teniers was one of the principal practitioners of the genre together with his brother Abraham, Anton Goubau, Cornelis Mahu and Jan Baptist Tijssens the Younger.

A guardroom scene typically depicts an interior scene with officers and soldiers engaged in merrymaking. Guardroom scenes often included mercenaries and prostitutes dividing booty, harassing captives or indulging in other forms of reprehensible activities. Many of Tenier's guardroom interiors date to the mid-1640s and are painted on copper. The subject of the guardroom and its contents such as armor, colorful flags and banners, saddles, drums, pistols allowed Teniers to showcase his brilliance as a still life painter. Teniers also used the subject to demonstrate his ability to use light to achieve a perfect representation of the quality of painted objects.

The armour depicted in the guardroom pictures was already out of date at the time it was painted since metal armours, breast plates and helmets fell out of use from the 1620s. It is possible that in line with the moralizing intent of the genre, the armour is a reference to the vanitas motif of the transience of power and fame.

In one of his guardroom interiors referred to as A guardroom with a self-portrait of the artist (At Sotheby's London sale of 7 July 2010, lot 12) Teniers included his own portrait at about 36 years of age. The artist has dossed himself out as an officer wearing an exotic fur-trimmed coat and a fur hat with plume. This self-portrait within this picture may have been intended as a tronie, which often depicted a stock character in an exotic costume. Teniers combined the genres of singerie and guardroom scene in the composition Guardroom with monkeys (Private collection). At a first glance, the Guardroom with Monkeys is no different from other guardroom scenes. It is clear from the round moon above the door that the scene is set late at night. The off-duty monkeys have removed their armor, stowed their pikes and rolled up their company flag and placed it against the far wall. Like their human counterparts, the monkey soldiers are loitering about, some of them are drinking and smoking, others are playing games. At the door a cat wearing respectable civilian clothes is led into the room by two monkeys who restrain it. The contrast between the properly dressed cat and the bizarre outfit of the monkey soldiers, one of which is wearing a funnel on his head while another has an upturned pot on his head, raises doubt as to the legitimacy of the monkeys' authority. As was customary in singeries, the dress and behaviour of the monkeys highlight the foolishness of human undertakings. Teniers may also have intended to criticize the bloated military in the Southern Netherlands in the 1630s.

Physicians and alchemists
The theme of physicians and alchemists was popular in 17th century Flemish and Dutch genre painting. Teniers was the principal contributor to this genre and its iconography in Flanders. The view of the public towards practitioners of either craft was ambivalent. Physicians and alchemists were regarded either as quacks or charlatans using deception to seek material gain or as persons seriously committed to the pursuit of knowledge. The ambivalence of this attitude was reflected in the artistic representations of physicians and alchemists. The first approach was to satirise the alchemist and turn him into a symbol of human folly. The artists would stress that the alchemist's research into creating gold from base metals was solely driven by a sinful pursuit of personal gain. Symbolism was used to show that alchemists were wasting precious time and money, and in the process sacrificed the well-being of their families. In his famous drawing of an alchemist dated to 1558 (Kupferstichkabinett Berlin) Pieter Brueghel the Elder depicted the alchemist as recklessly extravagant and wasteful in the use of resources. This drawing set the standard for the imagery of alchemists that was adopted by 17th century artists such as Jan Steen, David Rijckaert III and Adriaen van Ostade. In the 1640s Teniers created the second imagery of the alchemist. Teniers portrayed the alchemist as a learned and humble scientist diligently pursuing his research in his laboratory crowded with instruments. In the laboratory one or two assistants typically assist the alchemist with the performance of an experiment. Teniers's Alchemist (between circa 1640 and circa 1650, Mauritshuis) is an example of one of his alchemist laboratory scenes, which is devoid of the symbols of self-deception and consequent misery that Breughel had associated with alchemy, such as empty purses or tearful families. Teniers's new way of depicting alchemists was followed by contemporary artists such as Thomas Wijck, Frans van Mieris the Elder, Jacob Toorenvliet and Cornelis Bega.

While alchemists were mainly concerned with transmutation of base metals into more noble ones, their endeavors were wider and also involved the use of their techniques to diagnose or cure people (the so-called 'iatrochemistry', which aimed to provide chemical solutions to diseases and medical ailments). There was therefore an overlap with the role of physicians. One of the popular methods of medical diagnosis was the so-called 'uroscopy', the analysis of the urine of a patient. Whereas this was considered a valid diagnostic method in the Middle Ages its validity had come under attack by more modern-minded physicians in the 17th century. The practice of uroscopy and the questions surrounding its use by medical practitioners were the impetus for genre paintings on the theme of the 'piskijker' ('pee examiner'). They typically showed the inspection by a physician or a quack of a flask of urine provided by a young woman. If the inspection revealed the image of a fetus this was proof that the woman was pregnant. It is assumed that the genre was started by Adriaen Brouwer and that a now lost work of Brouwer inspired Teniers and Gerard ter Borch to paint works in this genre.

An example of Teniers's contribution to the genre is the composition Village doctor looking at a urine sample (1640s, Royal Museums of Fine Arts of Belgium), which shows a man examining a urine flask for the purpose of medical diagnosis while an anxious peasant woman is looking on. Teniers also depicted physicians performing various operations such as foot and back operations.

Still lifes
Teniers is not generally known as a still life painter. Nevertheless, many of his interiors include elaborate still lifes, some of them painted by specialist still life painters, others painted by Teniers himself. The subject of the guardroom and all its trappings such as armor, colorful flags and banners, saddles, drums and pistols gave Teniers ample opportunity to showcase his capabilities as a still life painter. This can be seen in the Guardroom with the Deliverance of Saint Peter (c. 1645–47, Metropolitan Museum of Art). A few independent still life paintings have also been attributed to Teniers. One of the most accomplished ones of these is the Still-life with overturned jug (At Sotheby's on 5 December 2007, lot 5).The work is dated to the mid-1630s on stylistic grounds. This work seems to show the influence of the Dutch monochrome still life painters. In particular, its simplicity and studied informality and the use of subtle muted colours bring to mind the work of contemporary artists from Leiden and Haarlem. However, is not clear whether Teniers was in fact directly influenced by these artists, and if so how. No similar still life paintings are known in Antwerp at this early date. At the time Teniers created this still life painting, the principal influence on him was Adriaen Brouwer, who had returned from Haarlem to Antwerp around 1631-2. To date Brouwer is not known to have been active as a painter of still lifes. While Teniers's early work also reveals his knowledge of Dutch artists in Rotterdam such as Pieter de Bloot and the Saftleven brothers, none of these artists were still life painters. The still life may possibly reflect the influence of the important Dutch still life painter Jan Davidsz. de Heem, who had arrived in Antwerp in 1635, the year this picture was made.

Collaborations

Collaboration between artists specialized in distinctive genres was a defining feature of artistic practice in 17th-century Antwerp. Teniers was likewise a frequent collaborator with fellow artists. His collaborators included Lucas van Uden, Jan Davidsz. de Heem, Adriaen van Utrecht, Jacques d'Arthois, his nephew Jan van Kessel the Younger and Gualterus Gysaerts.

An example of such a collaboration is the Kitchen still life with a vase of flowers, dead birds, a fish and a cat, which depicts a kitchen in which two men appear to be roasting meat and fish. The left foreground of the painting is dominated by a bouquet of flowers and a still life of game; which were painted by Antwerp still life specialists Nicolaes van Verendael and Carstian Luyckx.

Teniers collaborated on a series of twenty copper panels commissioned by two members of the Moncada family, a noble Catalan family. The panels illustrate the deeds of Guillermo Ramón Moncada and Antonio Moncada, two brothers from the Moncada House who lived at the end of the 14th and beginning of the 15th century in Sicily. Five prominent Flemish artists collaborated on the panels. Of 12 scenes devoted to Guillermo Ramón Moncada, Willem van Herp painted six, Luigi Primo five and Adam Frans van der Meulen one. Teniers was responsible for all eight panels describing the deeds of Antonio Moncada. He painted them not long after the first part of the series had been finished. Jan van Kessel the Elder, a nephew of Teniers and a still life specialist, realised the decorative borders framing each episode.

Garland paintings
Another example of a collaborative painting made by Teniers is the composition The Soap Bubbles (c. 1660–1670, Louvre). In this work Teniers collaborated again with his nephew Jan van Kessel the Elder who painted a decorative garland representing the four elements around a cartouche showing a young man blowing soap bubbles, which was painted by Teniers. The young man blowing bubbles and the elements in the garland surrounding him such as the flowers, the dead fish and the armor and flags are all references to the theme of vanitas, i.e. the transience of life and the worthless nature of all earthly goods and pursuits.

This type of painting belongs to the genre of the 'garland painting', which was invented and developed by Teniers's father-in-law Jan Brueghel the Elder in the first two decades of the 17th century. Garland paintings typically show a flower garland around a devotional image or portrait. Other artists involved in the early development of the genre included Hendrick van Balen, Andries Danielsz., Peter Paul Rubens and Daniel Seghers. The genre was initially connected to the visual imagery of the Counter-Reformation movement. The genre was further inspired by the cult of veneration and devotion to Mary prevalent at the Habsburg court (then the rulers over the Southern Netherlands) and in Antwerp generally. The earliest specimens of the genre often include a devotional image of Mary in the cartouche but in later examples the image in the cartouche could be religious as well as secular as is the case of Teniers's The Soap Bubbles.

In 1676 Teniers collaborated with his nephew or cousin Gualterus Gysaerts, a still life painter, on a series of 19 garland paintings depicting the martyrs of Gorkum. The series was made for the Minorite Church in Mechelen following the beatification of the martyrs on 9 July 1676. Teniers painted the monochrome bust portrait of each martyr in a cartouche while Gysaerts painted the cartouche and the flower garland surrounding it. Of these paintings, eight are known still to exist, one of which, depicting the martyr Hieronymus van Weert, is in the Rijksmuseum. Both Gysaerts and Teniers signed the painting in the Rijksmuseum.

Influence

Teniers's genre paintings were influential on northern painters of the 17th century. His work was easily accessible to other artists as he was one of the most reproduced artists of his time and prints after his work were produced in large quantities. In Flanders he influenced his pupil Gillis van Tilborgh and David Rijckaert III. In the Dutch Republic Thomas Wijck, Frans van Mieris the Elder, Jacob Toorenvliet and Cornelis Bega were influenced by his scenes of alchemists.

In the 18th century, Parisian collectors eagerly competed to lay their hands on Teniers's works. They knew the artist chiefly for his idealized scenes of rural life, paintings of village feasts, interiors with peasants and guardroom scenes. Teniers's work was very much admired by French painters of that time, particularly Antoine Watteau. Without Teniers's influence it is unlikely that Watteau would have developed his typical style and subjects. In particular the village feasts of Teniers had shown the way for Watteau in the development of his fêtes galantes, which featured figures in ball dress or masquerade costumes disporting themselves amorously in parkland settings. In the 18th century, Watteau was commonly described as the 'French Teniers', thus showing that the comparison between the two artists contributed to Watteau's success. Other French painters of this time who were influenced by Teniers include Jean-Baptiste-Siméon Chardin, Étienne Jeaurat and Jean-Baptiste Greuze. Some art historians see a direct link between Teniers's A cobbler in his workshop and Chardin's Canary based on thematic as well as compositional similarities.

title: David Teniers the Younger


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Peace and Democracy Movement

The Peace and Democracy Movement (Barış ve Demokrasi Hareketi) was a social democratic political party in the de facto Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. In the legislative elections for the House of Representatives of Northern Cyprus on 20 January 2005 the party won 5.8% of the popular vote and 1 out of the 50 seats in the assembly.

The last leader of BDH was Mustafa Akıncı, a deputy in TRNC Assembly of the Republic. In May 2007, it merged with the Communal Liberation Party to form the Communal Democracy Party.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Peace and Democracy Movement


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File:Cyfsrilanka.jpg

Summary
Communist Youth Federation, Sri Lanka

title: File:Cyfsrilanka.jpg


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Colin Cant

Colin Cant is a British television director, producer and scenic designer, best known for his work for the children's department of BBC Television from the 1970s to the 1990s. After beginning his career as a designer, he moved to directing and worked on many BBC children's series. He was involved for several years as both a director and producer on the long-running school-based drama series Grange Hill. He remained active in television into the 21st century, directing for the ITV soap opera Coronation Street in 2005.

Career
Cant initially trained as an architect, but switched to working in television design after watching a documentary programme about it, and realising how much more quickly his work could be realised in that area as opposed to the longer construction time of architecture. He began his career in television in the 1960s, earning his earliest credits as a scenic designer on programmes such as the BBC Scotland series This Man Craig. He was encouraged by one of his colleagues there, future film director Ridley Scott, to make the move into directing. His first directing work came on Coronation Street in 1971; he had written an on-spec letter to the soap opera's production team pitching for directing work, which happened to coincide with new directors being needed for the programme.

Cant was the first ever director on Grange Hill in 1978, and was responsible for much of the original casting for the programme. Cant's work on Grange Hill saw him awarded - jointly with Anna Home - a British Academy Television Award (BAFTA) in 1979. He also received two further BAFTA nominations for his work on the series, in 1981 and 1982.

Cant also directed several stand-alone children's drama serials and literary adaptations, including Moonfleet (1984), Moondial (1988), Dark Season (1991) and Century Falls (1993). The latter pair of serials were two of the earliest works from the writer Russell T Davies, who went on to have a distinguished career in British television drama. Cant had specifically asked Davies for a new serial after having been impressed with his work on Dark Season, as he had been commissioned to direct a serial by another writer with whom he was not impressed, and asked if Davies could come up with something better instead. In Dark Season, Cant had cast future Academy Award winner Kate Winslet in one of her first leading roles on screen.

Cant also worked in adult television, including three stints as a director on Coronation Street; in 1971–72, 1995–96 and 2000–05. He also directed episodes of the police drama Juliet Bravo, legal drama Crown Court and another ITV soap opera, Emmerdale.

title: Colin Cant


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Able (1920 automobile)

The Able was a small French cyclecar made in Avignon by Paul Toulouse, built between 1920 and 1927.

It was a fairly ordinary 4-cylinder light car that utilized engines from companies such as SCAP, Chapuis-Dornier and CIME, ranging from 1100 cc to 1500 cc. Some cars were sold under the name "Toulouse".

title: Able (1920 automobile)


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United Democrats

The United Democrats (Ενωμένοι Δημοκράτες (ΕΔΗ), Enomenoi Dimokrates (EDI)) is a liberal political party in Cyprus. The party was founded by former President of Cyprus George Vasiliou in 1993 as Kinima Eleftheron Dimokraton ("Movement of Free Democrats"). The party later merged with ADISOK (a group of former AKEL members, including Andreas Fantis, Andreas Ziartides and Pavlos Diglis) to form United Democrats. The party is a full member of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe and an observer member of the Liberal International.

History
At the legislative elections, on 27 May 2001, the party won 2.6% of the popular vote and 1 out of 56 seats.

During the 2004 Annan Plan Referendum, the party supported the Annan Plan for Cyprus.

In 2005 the party's president George Vasiliou stepped down and Michalis Papapetrou was elected president. In the elections of 21 May 2006, the party won only 1.6% and lost parliamentary representation. After the loss of parliamentary representation, Michalis Papapetrou expressed the will to resign as the party leader. In March 2007 vice-president Praxoula Antoniadou took the leadership of the party.

In the 2011 Legislative Elections, the United Democrats decided to support the governing party, AKEL. The party leader Praxoula Antoniadou was a candidate MP for AKEL.

In August 2011, President Demetris Christofias appointed United Democrats party leader Praxoula Antoniadou as Minister for the Ministry of Commerce, Industry and Tourism of the Republic of Cyprus.

Presidents

 * 1996-2005: George Vasiliou
 * 2005-2007: Michalis Papapetrou
 * 2007-Current: Praxoula Antoniadou

title: United Democrats


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Star-Spangled Kid

The Star-Spangled Kid is the name of several superheroes in the DC Comics' main shared universe.

Sylvester Pemberton
The original Star-Spangled Kid was Sylvester Pemberton, a Golden Age character, created by Superman co-creator Jerry Siegel. He adopted the identity to battle Nazism during World War II, and was unique in being a child with an adult sidekick, Stripesy a.k.a. Pat Dugan. Both he and Dugan were superb acrobats along with having sufficient training in hand-to-hand combat, but the pair regularly bickered about which of them should get top billing.

Decades later, he changed his name to Skyman and led Infinity Inc. He was later killed by Mister Bones's cyanide touch.

Courtney Whitmore
Courtney is Pat Dugan's stepdaughter, who found Pemberton's gear in his belongings and donned the Cosmic Converter Belt, with a costume of her own design. She begins her career as the second Star-Spangled Kid to annoy Dugan as partial revenge for him marrying her mother and supposedly forcing the family to move from Los Angeles to Blue Valley, Nebraska. Dugan, a skilled mechanic, designs and builds S.T.R.I.P.E., a mecha which he rides in to accompany and protect her. Eventually, she joins the JSA and, after being given Jack Knight's cosmic rod, changes her identity to Stargirl.

Miss Martian
A third Star-Spangled Kid appears in Terror Titans #1 and is subsequently captured by the Terror Titans team for the Dark Side Club. The Star-Spangled Kid is forced to fight in a tournament against other meta-humans, going on to win the tournament. During the course of the storyline he appears to have a much stronger resistance to brainwashing than the other fighters, although he does eventually succumb. Later, it is revealed that he is the shape-shifting Miss Martian, who is immune to the brainwashing and gradually frees the other combatants.

Other versions

 * An African-American child based on the Star-Spangled Kid, simply named Stars, appears in Kingdom Come. This version wears a leather jacket, an American flag bandana, a T-shirt with an inverted American flag, and a cosmic belt in addition to wielding the Cosmic Staff. Additionally, he is accompanied by a muscular older man called "Stripes".
 * The Star-Spangled Kid appears in Tiny Titans #38.

In other media

 * The Sylvester Pemberton incarnation of the Star-Spangled Kid appears in the Smallville two-part episode "Absolute Justice", portrayed by Jim Shield.
 * The Sylvester Pemberton incarnation of the Star-Spangled Kid appears in a photograph depicted in the Stargirl episode "Brainwave".

title: Star-Spangled Kid


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Academy (automobile)

The Academy was an English dual-control car built by West of Coventry between 1906 and 1908. The cars had a 14 hp 4-cylinder engine by White and Poppe.

It was mainly sold to The Motor Academy in London, an early driving school which was probably the first to offer dual control (having additional set of driving controls), but it was also available to the general public. The company showed at the 1906 Olympia Show, which was formerly a horse show.

title: Academy (automobile)


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Talk:List of countries with multiple capitals

Bhutan
There's any reference setting Punakha like Bhutan's de facto capital. In Thimphu page there are descriptions of government settings in this city, but nothing in Punakha page...Luís Gracindo 7:08, 04 Jun 2006 (UTC)
 * Unless someone can come up with a reliable source(s) that states Punakha currently serves as Bhutan's capital is some respect, I intend to delete the Bhutan entry, at least as a nation that *currently* has more than one capital. --Mike Beidler 16:28, 26 December 2006 (UTC)

Chile
Chile has only one Capital, I read the article in english of what a Capital is, and I think that it is wrong to designate Chile as having two capitals, just because the Congress is in another city. So far I understand, the location of the Congress does not determine the location of a Capital. Chile should be removed from this list, becasue it distorts reality, and is not accurate according to chilean legislation.--3BRBS (talk) 01:09, 21 December 2010 (UTC)
 * No one has replied my comment in two years. I think this article is probably an original investigation an presents a point of view that is no neutral. I'm adding the sign :) 3BRBS (talk) 19:24, 2 July 2013 (UTC)
 * Now that Chile has been removed from the list it is still highlighted in the map! Aminabzz (talk) 03:59, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Yes the only capital of chile is Santiago. The only country in South America is Bolivia -La Paz and Sucre. 80.194.167.24 (talk) 16:47, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Kazakhstan
Shouldn't Kazakhstan be on the list of countries that have shifted their capitals? From the Kazakhstan page: "In 1997 the capital of Kazakhstan moved from the southern city of Almaty to Akmolinsk (Akmola), later renamed to Astana, a city closer to the geographic center of the country."

Israel
I forgot to write a summary for my last change, which was to add a statement about Jerusalem/Tel Aviv...I still haven't figured out how to change summaries if you forget to write them. My apologies.

I wasn't sure exactly how to integrate that information into the page. I basically echoed what had been done with the statement about Japan. I think the situation in Israel is probably unique, in that the country itself designates one capital, but most of the rest of the world recognizes a different one. If we want a list of "temporary wartime capitals", we could also add Tel Aviv to that, but I'm not sure how often that has happened.
 * Someday I will learn to sign posts on these pages. The above was mine.  Creidieki 20:52, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I made this edit because it is incorrect to say that the United Nations recognizes Tel Aviv as the capital of Israel. It is true that the United Nations does not recognize Jerusalem as the capital. I am not aware of any country whose official position is "Tel Aviv is the capital of Israel". That's just where the embassies are. In fact, Israel should not even be mentioned in an article on countries with multiple capitals; instead, Israel is perhaps a country with zero capitals. (Switzerland might also fit into that category; Wikipedia's article on Bern describes it as merely a "de facto capital" ). See for example UNTERM which carefully leaves blank the field for "capital city". Mathew5000 (talk) 09:07, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Japan
Japan has had other capitals as well ... I believe Nara (Heijo-kyo) is generally considered to be Japan's first permanent capital. Depending on how you define capital Japan has had many others as well: Fujiwara-kyo, Asuka, etc. CES 06:38, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * The article is about countries that have had multiple capitals at the same time. So if a country has had a capital from year x to y and then another one from y to z, that can't be a country with multiple capitals. Aminabzz (talk) 10:26, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

 * they literally have Tokyo and Kyoto 166.205.222.16 (talk) 15:33, 24 September 2023 (UTC)

Sri Lanka
Should you want to visit the Sri Lankan Parliament, you will find it in the Columbo metropolitan area.
 * incorrect, it changed to Sri Jayawardenepura Kotte in 1982. While colombo is de facto commercial capital it has no constitutional roll as a captital an is only commercial capital is the same way that New York is commercial capital of the US. And i don't see the US listed as a country with more than one capital. I am going to remove sri lanka from the page unless anyone has any objections.  Greatestrowerever  Talk Page  13:18, 20 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Not that I disagree with removing Sri Lanka (I don't), but how on Earth is Kotte not in the Colombo Metropolitan Region? Colombo says that the region is defined as the districts of Colombo, Gampaha and Kalutara. — JAO • T • C 22:09, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Well, it is physically in the area known generally, to the outside world, as "Colombo". But to locals, it is not considered to be in Colombo, but in Sri Jayawardenepura Kotte, or Kotte for short.  This distinction applies to other parts of what would generally be considered to be part of Colombo, such as Wattala.  If you go there, you'll find it on the main road between the airport and the CBD, and only 8 miles from the CBD, and for most practical purposes it is indistinguishable from the Colombo area.  But the locals never refer to it as "Colombo", always as "Wattala".  Many cities are divided into different administrative areas run by different local authorities.  Take Sydney, for example.  The City of Sydney runs only the inner area including the CBD, and other cities such as the City of Randwick, the City of Parramatta and various others, run other parts of the Sydney greater metropolitan area.  A person from Parramatta would be quite correct in saying they're from "Sydney" (used in its broad, general sense), and if the NSW Parliament were located in Parramatta (rather than in the CBD of Sydney), nobody would object to saying that "The NSW Parliament is situated in the capital, Sydney".  But Sri Lankans think about these things in their own way, and we have to respect that.  --  JackofOz (talk) 23:14, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, definitely. We should certainly not call Kotte "part of Colombo" without further specification, if locals wouldn't do that. I just reacted to the statement that it was incorrect to call Kotte part of the "Columbo [sic] metropolitan area". Assuming the term is used for the Colombo Metropolitan Region as defined in the Colombo article, that's not incorrect by any stretch of the imagination. — JAO • T • C 00:48, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

United States
Baltimore and Annapolis, Maryland were never capitals of the United States. They were two out of eight different cities where the Second Continental Congress met between 1775 anf 1789. New York City was the first official capital of the United States of America, as designated by Congess. Followed by Philidelphia, PA under the Residence Act of 1790, and Washington, DC upon its completion in 1800. If Balitmore and Annapolis are to be concidered former capitals of the United States, then Lancaster, PA; York, PA; Princeton, NJ; and Trenton, NJ must be included with the 3 times Philidelphia was a site of a meeting of the Continental Congress, as well as New York. NamcoFL 05:17, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * I refered to the World Book Encyclopaedia (2003) to compile this table. It was mentioned in it that the above served as a temporary capital. I think that the towns of Annapolis, Baltimore and the additional ones you mentioned should be added to the table as it did serve as the administrative capital of USA. ¶ nichalp | [[User talk:nichalp| Talk ]] 20:02, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

"The Union States of America" never existed. The United States of America" was "the Union." Wetman 21:33, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Fixed. --Aponar Kestrel 03:14, 2004 Jul 26 (UTC)

United Kingdom
But Winchester was never the capital of the UK. It was the capital of England, though. Marnanel 15:12, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I think Winchester was the capital of Wessex, not England. William Avery 19:35, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

A quick search confirms my memory that the people of Oxford often describe their city as having been the "Royalist capital" (of England) during the English Civil War. http://www.google.com/search?q=oxford+royalist+capital William Avery 19:19, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I believe Winchester was briefly capital of England after the end of the Heptarchy, but I could be wrong. In any case, the table says (well, said) that it had been the capital of the UK, which is clearly wrong. Marnanel 03:02, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I see your point: Alfred called himself King of England, and his capital was Winchester. William Avery 21:43, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Netherlands
The Hague is not the or a capital of the Netherlands. It is the capital of the 'Zuid-Holland' county. The fact that government is centered there doesn't change that. If it does, then I consider this list rather subjective.

Note that capital states: It may consist of or be separate from the actual seat of government.

Tinus 15:45, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I agree. Den Haag is only the seat of goverment, the capital is Amsterdam as it always has been.

- James
 * Amsterdam is indeed the only capital of the Netherlands. I have removed the Netherlands from the list. Previous debates about capital status of the Hague on other pages have resulted in the outcome that : The idea that the seat of government is the capital is not sufficiently supported (some US dictionaries include seat of government in their definition of capital, UK dictionaries don't): I.e. the claim that seat of government=capital lacks unambiguous support, but even if such definition would be agreed upon, extending that to the Dutch situation would still be synthesis. No single reliable names the Hague capital of the Netherlands, the contrary is true as Amsterdam is (uniquely) named capital in the Dutch constitution.
 * Therefore it is obvious the Netherlands does not belong on this list; at least not without a reliable source claiming that it does have indeed 2 capitals. Arnoutf (talk) 09:47, 2 July 2011 (UTC)

MauriManya keeps on adding that the Hague is a capital of the Netherlands. The source he provides goes 404 and the site he provides the 'source' from has this on it, which clearly says the following; "In most countries, the capital city is the seat of the national government. That is not the case in the Netherlands, however. Although Amsterdam is the Dutch capital, the government and States General (the Dutch parliament) are based in The Hague. The current head of state, Queen Beatrix, also lives in The Hague. Amsterdam is the Netherlands’ largest city and its economic and cultural hub. It is also the scene of royal inaugurations and marriages. To discover why the government of the Netherlands does not have its seat in the capital, we must make an excursion into the country’s history." This source is the ministry of foreign affairs of the Netherlands, it can obviously be trusted on this matter. This literally says "Amsterdam is the capital", "The government is in the Hague", "The government is not in the capitol" — Preceding unsigned comment added by Leprecon (talk • contribs) 13:26, 9 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Leprecon the source says it clearly: Amsterdam is the constitutional capital, The Hague is the seat of the government. As is the case of Malaysia. Why dou you keep insisting on the Netherlands?  MauriManya (talk) 17:35, 11 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The wikipedia page on capital cities says "A capital city (or just, capital) is the area of a country, province, region, or state considered to enjoy primary status; although there are exceptions, a capital is typically a city that physically encompasses the offices and meeting places of the seat of government and is usually fixed by law or by the constitution." This is obviously one of those exceptions. There is no question on whether or not the government is in the Hague, this however doesn't mean that it is a capital. A city being the seat of the government doesn't make it a capital. Nobody considers the Hague the capital of the Netherlands and the source you cite specifically says that the Hague is not a capital city. I am not the only one who keeps insisting this, so don't pretend this is all my doing. If you want to create a list of countries whose government is not in their capital than be my guest, but the Netherlands only has one capital, both officially and unofficially. Perhaps it would be better to rename this article or rephrase its introduction if you insist on the Netherlands staying on this list. Leprecon (talk) 08:28, 13 April 2012 (UTC)
 * In this case it would have to rename the article, as there are other cases (not just the Netherlands) in which the seat of government is not in the capital.  MauriManya (talk) 14:40, 15 April 2012 (UTC)
 * Such cases are better suited for a separate list or colour on the attached map, therefore I have removed the Netherlands to prevent any unclarities concerning this list. Aesarlex 12:56, 8 January 2018
 * The fact that government is centered there doesn't change that. On the contrary: The basic definition of a capital city is that its a place from which an entity is ruled or governed. The Netherlands doesn't own the word "capital" and can't redefine it on whim. Suppose I see you with your pet and you say "This is my poodle, Cindy. She's a cat." I can see she's a poodle. Poodles are dogs, and that doesn't change just because she's yours. So Cindy is a dog, no matter how much you insist she isn't and even if you have a document that says she isn't. Largoplazo (talk) 12:41, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * As much as the Dutch cannot change the definition of the English word capital neither can any foreign entity determine that The Hague is somehow our capital which it is not. To use an analogy: Just because Karen has hooves does not make her a zebra. Karen is a horse. Even if foreign entities paint her black and white, a horse is a horse.  T eysz K amieński  (talk) 15:36, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * What you're overlooking is that the government of the Netherlands shoiuldn't expect to be taken seriously when they declare that a city that is their capital isn't one. Your analogy is backwards. The Netherlands is putting hooves on The Hague by (for God knows what reason) insisting that that city, which meets the definition of "capital", isn't one. A fitting analogy is the one I gave you earlier, which I'll make more briefly here: It's as though the Netherlands had declared that poodles residing in the Netherlands are cats, not dogs, and then getting upset when outsiders call them "dogs" anyway. Largoplazo (talk) 22:42, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * So in Germanic languages there is no distinction within the colour blue whereas Slavic languages for instance do make a distinction between light blue and dark blue. Similarly the Netherlands and Bolivia and possibly others places do make a distinction between capital and seat of government. That you do not make that distinction does not mean that it does not exist. And that is the root of the problem. The core issue. But as said before I see this is not going anywhere, so the misinformation will remain. Do note that I call it misinformation (unintentional/uninformed incorrect information) as opposed to disinformation (intentional incorrect information). As I do believe y'all aren't intentionally ignorant.  T eysz K amieński  (talk) 09:34, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Before we continue with this - is there actually any non-disputed reliable source that confirms the bold statement "The basic definition of a capital city is that its a place from which an entity is ruled or governed." If not, I think the analogy to animals (which are non-disputed) if flawed and leading nowhere. (please also note the Wikipedia article capital city uses a less far fetching definition that the capital is usually (i.e. not always) the seat of government, making the need for an extremely strong source to back up the definition above rather essential). Arnoutf (talk) 21:08, 25 November 2023 (UTC)

Tanzania
According the the main article on Tanzania there is a case for including that country here. William Avery 19:32, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Lithuania
I've seen sources that the capital was Kovno from 1918 or 1919 to 1940 (subsequently and currently Vilnius) - the Wikipedia entry for Kovno has that it was temporarily a capital, but isn't clear about the dates.
 * Lithuanians always call it Kaunas, Poles Kowno, Kovno is Russian. The story is very complicated. First, a source showing it was what is called the Provisional Capital of the Republic of Lithuania: Harrison's Lithuania, available on archive.org. Here's what happened, from memory: The Lithuanian Republic was proclaimed in Vilnius/Wilno in 1919 with Vilnius as its capital. The Republic of Poland contested the claim, and during fighting with Russian Bolsheviks Poland de facto administered the entire region around Wilno and a large chunk of White Russia, aka Belarus. This can be seen on numberous maps on the internet from the period. Poland called rump Lithuania Central Lithuania or somesuch, see Czeslaw Milosz for more on that. Rump Lithuania was forced to set up termporary capital in Kaunas for the duration of its period of independence while there were multiple disputes in the League of Nations about the status of Wilno/Vilnius and plebicites/referenda planned. When the Mutual Assistance Pacts between the Soviet Union and the Baltic states led to actual Red Army troops based in the Baltic states, and a Lithuanian People's Government petitioned Moscow for inclusion as a constituent republic in the USSR, a Berlin-based Lithuanian opposition group formed a government in exile. The organization in Berlin was the Lithuanian Activists Front. Back in the Lithuanian SSR Stalin, now in control of the eastern marches under the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact, gave Vilnius back to the Lithuanian SSR. The LAF had Nazi support and planned to use the German invasion to declare themselves the de facto government in Lithuania, which they did, in Kaunas. The LAF Provisional Government pledged allegiance to Adolf Hitler and sought to enter WWII on the Axis side. The Germans appreciated their help in organizing Lithuanians to kill Jews, but did not need or want a competing nationalist base of power inside their occupied territory in the east. So the capital of Lithuania in the modern period was briefly the declarative capital Vilnius ca. 1919, followed by the de facto provisional capital of Kaunas till 1940. Depending on whom you ask, Lithuania either disappeared in 1940 and remained disappeared until 1990, or briefly came back to life in summer of 1941, under the provisional government at the provisional capital Kaunas, from late June to mid-August. The provisional government maintained that Vilnius was Lithuanian and the Lithuanian capital, but didn't have time to move many boots there, only some pro-Nazi state security staff. Historically, the capital of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania was in Trakai (Troky in Polish) before it moved to Vilnius. Kernave is considered an even older capital than Trakai but not on much firm basis if you ask me. So a good bit of it depends on how you interpret history: for 50 years the only sovereign Lithuanian territory was a few small offices in Rome and Washington, D. C. Hypatea (talk) 14:33, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Villanus is the only capital of Lithuania 80.194.167.24 (talk) 16:51, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Ireland
Ireland is regarded as a nation whereas Northern Ireland is certainly not regarded as a nation. Ireland should be re-included on the list of nations with two capitals.
 * Regarded by whom? (The whole island is not, for example, regarded as one state by the constitution of the Republic of Ireland; see Articles 2 and 3 of the Constitution of Ireland.) Marnanel 01:11, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Tuvalu?
Shouldn't Tuvalu be on this page, too? Its article seems to say that Vaiaku, Fongafale and Funafuti are its capitals. Adam78 03:09, 28 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Vaikaku is a village on the islet of Fongafale, which is part of the atoll of Funafuti. There's only one capital -- it's just a matter of scale. ;) — Nightst a  llion  (?) Seen this already? 17:46, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Micronesia has had multiple capitals, if only administrative. Hypatea (talk) 14:35, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

Philippines?
Manila is the only legal capital. Perhaps it can be reworded. --Howard t he Du c k 14:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

Montenegro
I also cannot find any documented evidence that Cetinje serves currently as Montengro's capital in any capacity. In lieu of evidence, I am deleting reference to it. --Mike Beidler 17:06, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think you mean Montenegro, not Macedonia. -- (Shocktm | Talk | contribs.) 21:21, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Heh. You're right.  Boy, am I tired today.  Fixed.  ;-)  --Mike Beidler 23:38, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I think Cetinje warrants an inclusion, as a city specifically mentioned in the constitution of the country. The constitution uses the term glavni grad (which is the usual Serbian word for capital) for Podgorica and prestonica (which I am having a hard time translating, but I think it's meant to mean "seat of the head of state") for Cetinje. -- Jao 16:15, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Quoting Constitution of Montenegro: "Article 7, THE CAPITAL CITY AND ADMINISTRATIVE CENTRE. The administrative centre of Montenegro shall be Podgorica. The capital city of Montenegro shall be Cetinje." --Serguei Trouchelle 16:28, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have seen that translation before, but that doesn't mean it's not a strange translation. Glavni grad (literally "main city") is the word which Serbs use when English-speakers say capital (see http://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Француска or any other country article in the Serbian Wikipedia, for example). It seems very out of place to translate it into "administrative centre" in this, and only this, situation. -- Jao 19:34, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

South Africa
Is there any documentation from official (i.e., South African government) sources that South Africa has three capitals, as opposed to one "official" capital (i.e., Pretoria) and two other cities that serve as hosts to one of the three branches of government (i.e., Cape Town and Bloemfontein)? --Mike Beidler 19:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

The SA constitution doesn't refer to a national capital city. The closest would be that it refers to parliament meeting in Cape Town. Pretoria, Cape Town and Bloemfontein are all de facto capitals. As I posted in the article, the status of Bloemfontein as a judicial capital is historic. Since the formation of the constitutional court, Bloem may not be the de facto judicial capital. Crazydude22 (talk) 10:02, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Russia
Russia too can be added in the list? The constitutional court is transferred to Saint Petersburg. Yuriy75 (talk) 15:28, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

New Discussion
A discussion has been started at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Countries/Lists of countries which could affect the inclusion criteria and title of this and other lists of countries. Editors are invited to participate. Pfainuk talk 12:06, 17 December 2008 (UTC)

Castile and Leon and early Spain
had multiple capitals. Shouldn't these be added? See the footnote 1 in the infobox of Corona de Castilla for a start.--189.62.166.199 (talk) 18:23, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

Libya
Since some countries have recognized the rebel government, it might be added that Libya, to a certain extent, has 2 capitals. Tripoli is the "official" capital, while Benghazi is the "rebel" capital. 99.59.26.174 (talk) 05:48, 13 June 2011 (UTC)

fundamental flaw underlying this list
The article opens with the statement: "Some countries have multiple capitals; often one city is the seat of government while the other is the legal capital." This sentence is utter nonsense. Consider the sentence if you replace "capital" with apple and "seat of government" with orange the line then would read "Some situations hold multiple aples; often one of these is an orange while the other is a legally acknowledged apple".

For example in my home country, we as inhabitants, and our constitution are clear and unambiguous: There is only one capital: Amsterdam. Yet the Netherlands is in this list as its seat of government is in the Hague. No one with any knowledge of the Dutch situation (at least no one sane) would list the Hague as capital, there is no source naming the Netherlands a multiple capital city. So most of this list seems synthesis (i.e. violation of WPOR). Arnoutf (talk) 17:39, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * After some more reading of the different definitions: In the case of the Netherlands (1 city with all institutions of a capital - The Hague / 1 city always referred to as capital and mentioned as such in the constitution, and being the more important of the Dutch cities - Amsterdam).
 * Either we accept the dictionary definition, which would favour The Hague as sole capital, as no reference in those definitions is made about the possibility that a law (after all a human idea) can overrule the defintion
 * Or we follow Dutch constitution (and colloquial use) and label Amsterdam capital, as a dictionary definition is only a human idea.
 * In either case the Netherlands has only one single capital; albeit a different one. Calling both of them capital is never done, and that would be synthesis in my view. Arnoutf (talk) 18:43, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Switzerland
Switzerland has also another Judicial capital, Lausanne. Actually depending on the case it can also be Bellinzona, Luzern or St. Gallen. I wonder whether it makes any sense to list Judicial capitals. Pkoppenb (talk) 17:28, 10 February 2015 (UTC)

Saudi Arabia
Saudi Arabia has two capitals: Riyadh (political capital) and Mecca (religious capital)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.192.183.132 (talk) 11:50, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Germany
Until Berlin became the capital, Bonn was the capital of Germany, not West Berlin, as is currently stated in the article. West Berlin was not even part of West Germany, although it was perceived as such. Bonn was not just the administrative seat of the government; it was the capital of West Germany. 80.71.142.166 (talk) 21:42, 30 January 2018 (UTC)

South Korea
Seoul and Sejong City (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sejong_City). Sejong is a new "de facto administrative capital of South Korea" -Ciscorucinski (talk) 10:42, 13 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Will await further consensus before making edits. Additionally it still says Seoul on the South Korea page, so until that takes into effect I don't think we should add it here. DrJosh999 (talk) 01:17, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Bolivia
Bolivia has only one capital, Sucre. The general population, the media, research centers, the chancellery, and the office of the presidency speak and write that the capital is Sucre. 51114u9 (talk) 22:55, 27 April 2021 (UTC)
 * As the lead says, "the seat of government and executive capital is La Paz". Further, "The Bolivian seat of government moved to La Paz at the start of the twentieth century, as a consequence of Sucre's relative remoteness from economic activity after the decline of Potosí and its silver industry and of the Liberal Party in the War of 1899." If "capital" is a term meaning "seat of primary government entities", then La Paz is a capital of Bolivia, whether or not the country's constitution says so. Largoplazo (talk) 23:17, 27 April 2021 (UTC)

Czechia
I would like to point out that Czechia legally only has one capital (in fact, if you told most Czechs that Brno is supposedly a "second capital" they would be very confused). The capital city is defined by Act. no. 131/2000 Col., known as the Law on the Capital City of Prague. In fact the full name of Prague is Hlavní město Praha - Capital City of Prague. The capital is defined by the law and not by where institutions are hosted. Brno plays host to several institutions as a result of an effort to decentralise from Prague. In fact in 2019 the parliament debated moving quite a few other government institutions out of Prague to the thirteen regional capitals outside of Prague. However, this wouldn't mean that Czechia would have 14 capitals - legally there is still just one capital, as defined by the above-mentioned law. I would therefore propose fixing the map on this article to remove Czechia. --Avenflight (talk) 19:38, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Any contribution I make to this discussion would probably mirror the discussion I already participated in last year at Talk:List of national capitals/Archive 2. That thread began with a complaint that someone has removed a bunch of non-capitals from the list, with the plaintiff arguing that they belonged because some national governmental institution was located in each of them. My comment "Following your rationale as stated here, we'd be calling half the localities within 30 miles of Washington, D.C. "capitals" because some U.S. office or other is located in each of them. This is not 'List of localities where a nation has at least one of its institutional headquarters'" sums up my opinion there and here. Largoplazo (talk) 23:29, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Czechia isn’t a country. Checkeslovakia was a group of countries and Czech Republic is a country but not Czechia. Its capital is Prague 80.194.167.24 (talk) 16:53, 27 November 2023 (UTC)
 * "Czechia" is the official English short-form name of the Czech Republic. Largoplazo (talk) 17:00, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

Please clarify whether there's a legally defined official capital(s) or not
The preamble to the tables says some countries have a single legally defined capital whereas others have multiple capitals with no official preference of one over the other(s).

Please can the tables clarify which applies in each case? Robertm25 (talk) 14:34, 8 November 2022 (UTC)

Should Karlsruhe be considered a German capital?
Even if *de jure* Berlin is the only German city mentioned as “Hauptstadt der Bundesrepublik Deutschland”, at least *de facto* it is its judicial/constitutional capital, where its two highest courts, the Federal Constitutional Court and Federal Court of Justice, are located. Not really different from Sucre or Bloemfontein in this sense. VVVBoldrini (talk) 11:12, 21 November 2022 (UTC)

United States and Economic capital
Burundi and Ivory Coast are listed as countries with a separate Economic capital from Political capital. United States have New York as Economic capital for banking, finance, insurances and more. Washington DC is not Economic capital. Further countries such as Canada and Brazil can be said to have a different Economic capital. --BIL (talk) 20:04, 27 July 2023 (UTC)

 * In many countries, for several reasons, the economic center is not the political capital (for example, also in Italy or Switzerland). Unless it's something officialy recognized, I don't think that would be a good idea to add all these cases in the page Floydpig (talk) 07:30, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Why are we listing "economic capitals"? Shall we list Hollywood and Mumbai as movie capitals of their respective countries? Or Gilroy, California as the Garlic Capital of the World? Metaphorical capitals shouldn't be included. Largoplazo (talk) 09:16, 29 July 2023 (UTC)
 * United States fiscal policy is determined through the Federal Reserve, located in Washington, DC. This is the basis of America's economy, and where the decisions that uphold monetary stability are made. New York City has no such power, and since 2020 and a rise in remote work, Manhattan is losing the power of a centralised economic sector as the Internet decentralises economic workflows more equally across the country.
 * And when this happens, the Federal Reserve will still be in DC. 2603:7080:D23B:832:7C87:B840:592F:8892 (talk) 21:09, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

Ivory Coast
I cannot edit the page, but Côte d'Ivoire has been very adamant about not wishing to be called the Ivory Coast, and as such, and it would be more accurate to change its name to reflect this. 2603:7080:D23B:832:7C87:B840:592F:8892 (talk) 21:05, 30 July 2023 (UTC)

 * We have a rule called WP:COMMONNAME, whereby we default to whatever the most commonly-used name is. Even their article is named Ivory Coast. — Czello (music) 21:06, 30 July 2023 (UTC)
 * Does this rule also apply to trans people when they change their names, that one must continually refer to them by their more commonly known name? How do you determine what "most commonly used" is? 2603:7080:D23B:832:7C87:B840:592F:8892 (talk) 12:39, 1 August 2023 (UTC)
 * In any case in my view such a change should be made first on the main Ivory Coast page (which also has redirects from Côte d'Ivoire). A quick look there shows this point has been brought up repeatedly but has not gained consensus for change. Arnoutf (talk) 14:51, 1 August 2023 (UTC)

Countries in the map
Some countries are highlighted in the map, but aren't in the table. Aminabzz (talk) 04:08, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Netherlands 2
@Teysz Kamieński @Largoplazo Please discuss the current issue of the netherlands here in this talk page. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 10:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

 * So one hand you have people who stick to the dictionary definition of capital and ignore the distinction between capital and seat of government. And on the other hand you have people who do make a distinction between the two. I belong to the latter group as do other Dutch people who previously tried to make this clear twice earlier on this very talk page. I simply have no other arguments besides this one. So I won't repeat myself any further.  T eysz K amieński  (talk) 12:11, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I mean have you seen the other countries like bolivia, they have both their constitutional/administrative capital and their legislative capitals listed as different. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 14:02, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I was not aware that Bolivia has a similar situation to the Netherlands. I mean I saw it listed, but I didn't look into it to verify it until now. It seems they also explicitly state in their constitution that Sucre is the (only) capital even though La Paz is the seat of government. They make the same distinction, so it appears it's not just a Dutch thing. So Bolivia too should be removed from the list. This is unlike Eswatini which apparently has officially two capitals although I can't find any specifics on Eswatini besides the infobox stating that both are capitals, one executive and one legislative. Malaysia appears to have two capitals with a lack of specifics as well. I just learned that South Africa doesn't actually have a legally defined capital (similarly to Switzerland), but they do mention Cape Town as the seat of parliament in their constitution. But then again, their government website does list the same three capitals. And Sri Lanka seems to have two capitals as well, but also not a lot of specifics. Without more specifics or knowledge about their situations I cannot determine whether or not those countries should be listed or not. So I will limit my discussion to Bolivia and the Netherlands which both should not be listed here as they both clearly state what their (singular) capital actually is in their constitution and do not mention the other city in any capacity. Both make the distinction that one is the capital and the other is the seat of government. I don't know about Bolivia, but no one in the Netherlands refers to or thinks of The Hague as a capital besides it actually being the provincial capital of the province of South-Holland. We see it as the seat of government which is distinct from a capital. As much as we cannot change the definition of the English word capital neither can any foreign entity determine that The Hague is somehow our capital. It's just not.  T eysz K amieński  (talk) 15:27, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't it be the opposite, instead of removing Bolivia, adding the Netherlands seems to be a better ideo. I know you have your own POV but i think the consensus for Bolivia is to not remove it and the Netherlands seems to be similar. We don't go by strict definitions mate. Also the Hague is commonly considered to be the Netherland's de facto capital by many new sites and the dutch public. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 16:04, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * the fact that the Hague is considered a de facto capital is even stated in the wikipedia article for the Netherlands. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 16:06, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Which is just another place where they mention this misinformation.  T eysz K amieński  (talk) 16:31, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Now tell me, why is it misinfo? Sangsangaplaz (talk) 16:34, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * For one, after double checking, nowhere on The Netherlands it is mentioned as such. It is always refered to as the seat of government which is still not the same as the capital. Secondly, it seems you missed the entire discussion.  T eysz K amieński  (talk) 16:41, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Don't use ad hominem in a dispute. The page that i was actually trying to refer to was The Hague (sorry). But i did not miss the whole discussion (To be honest it was more of an edit war). Which dictionary are you using to "define" a capital mate. And what is the exact definition. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 16:53, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry, it was not ad hominem. It was a reference to the discussion at hand to prevent me from having to repeat myself (again). The Hague does mention that indeed. Wrongfully so as it's based on a British source which doesn't understand the distinction between capital and seat of government either. And that is the problem. Y'all are holding on to the dictionary definition which does not make the distinction either.  T eysz K amieński  (talk) 17:20, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * "It is based on a British source which doesn't understand the distinction between capital and seat of government either. And that is the problem. Y'all are holding on to the dictionary definition which does not make the distinction either."
 * Can you tell me the distinction? You are assuming that you are absolutely correct in this discussion and that anyone else is incorrect. You are also slightly implying ownership of the article which is against the Policies of Wikipedia. You are the odd one out in this discussion (at the time of this reply). Both me and @Largoplazo versus you so consensus is in our favour (not that it's relevant in the end, i just want to blow off some steam). Please be more open so that this discussion can get somewhere. Thank you, Yours Sincerely Sangsangaplaz (talk) 14:07, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * To be clear: No one owns pages. Including me and both of you. No one. And to claim that I "own" the page based on one edit, which was reverted, is absurd. From my POV it seems y'all think you are correct and are not willing to see it any other way. I have been very clear from the start about the distinction. The Hague is the seat of the government and Amsterdam is the capital. A seat of government is not a capital. Normally the capital is the seat of government as is the case in most countries. The Netherlands and Bolivia are some of the exceptions however and both make the distinction where one city is the capital and another city is the seat of government. So how can a city be a capital if it doesn't house the government? Well in those two cases mentioned the country designated it as such and/or it did house the government in the past and kept the designation for what ever reason. In the case of Amsterdam, it is also culturally the capital as it has an important role in the country. It has everything a capital has, just not the government or the head of state (or be the main media hub as that is Hilversum similarly to how LA is the same in the USA). Although the Dutch monarch is crowned and married in Amsterdam. But burried in Delft. But I disgress. There is not much I can add or do if you don't recognise that there is a distinction.  T eysz K amieński  (talk) 23:48, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Wrongfully so as it's based on a British source which doesn't understand the distinction between capital and seat of government either. In my poodle scenario, this corresponds to "... a British source which doesn't understand that not all poodles are dogs." The British source doesn't "understand" the distinction because the distinction is a fictional invention. (By the way, I haven't seen yet, if you think there is a distinction, what you think a capital is.)Largoplazo (talk) 14:47, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * What Dutch public? All the (Dutch) people I asked today were flabbergasted that anyone could see The Hague as the capital. They could see the reasoning, but just don't see it that way. As much as y'all don't see it our way.  T eysz K amieński  (talk) 16:31, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * "the capital" I said the de facto capital, not THE capital. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 16:34, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It is not seen as any kind of capital besides provincial.  T eysz K amieński  (talk) 16:52, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * It is not seen as any kind of capital besides provincial. This illustrates the invalidity of offering an absolute, particularly in the passive voice with no subject identified, in a dispute. The very fact that it's a dispute means that your statement is false: there are those (like me) who see it that way. Therefore, it is seen that way. Largoplazo (talk) 22:39, 21 November 2023 (UTC)
 * The context is the Dutch public.  T eysz K amieński  (talk) 09:19, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Well, the context of Wikipedia is the entire English-speaking world, not the (Dutch-speaking) Dutch public. And, just as with poodles, the entire English-speaking world isn't obliged to observe some odd quirk about the meaning of a word that the Dutch have agreed to among themselves by convention. Largoplazo (talk) 11:18, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Sangsangaplaz asserted that the Dutch public shared their view with which I disagreed and replied by saying that the Dutch public doesn't view it that way. I didn't claim that no one saw it that way. The statement is part of a thread where the context was implied. It is not isolated.  T eysz K amieński  (talk) 17:53, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * "The Dutch public doesn't view it that way" And can you support that claim? You aren't the only person who has access to the Dutch public mate. I have tons of Dutch friends and family (yes I have Dutch in-laws) who say the Hague is the secondary/de facto capital Also it doesn't matter too much if the Dutch don't consider it to be the de facto capital since this is the English Wikipedia.
 * 'English Wikipedia Also I forgot to mention I had sources.'.
 * Sources: *https://www.britannica.com/place/The-Hague
 * https://www.sporcle.com/blog/2018/03/what-is-the-capital-of-the-netherlands/amp/
 * https://www.astarfuture.co.uk/city/the_hague.html
 * https://international.appstate.edu/node/1757
 * Sangsangaplaz (talk) 13:57, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Okay then, I'll rephrase: A part of the Dutch do and other Dutch people do not. Personally I've yet to come across a Dutch person who views it that way and I was born and raised in the Netherlands and I still live here. But as you point out that doesn't seem to matter anyway.  T eysz K amieński  (talk) 23:13, 24 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Maybe we lived in different places because I stayed in the Netherlands for about a year. Anyhow it doesn't matter if the dutch people don't view that the Hague is a de facto capital if the rest of the world does (due and undue weight). Which as stated earlier is the case (along with the sources). Sangsangaplaz (talk) 05:58, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I recommend not arguing about the tone of a fellow editor but I agree with your point. I think the consensus is that the Netherlands should be included. Sangsangaplaz (talk) 09:26, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * I spoke only of the validity of their argumentation. I didn't say anything about their tone. Largoplazo (talk) 11:16, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
 * "The Hague is the country's administrative centre and its seat of government, and while the official capital of the Netherlands is Amsterdam, The Hague has been described as the country's de facto capital." - The Hague Sangsangaplaz (talk) 16:54, 21 November 2023 (UTC)