text:
Saint-Gobain

Compagnie de Saint-Gobain S.A. is a French multinational corporation, founded in 1665 in Paris and headquartered on the outskirts of Paris, at La Défense and in Courbevoie. Originally a mirror manufacturer, it also produces a variety of construction, high-performance, and other materials. Saint-Gobain is present in 76 countries and  employs more than 170,000 people.

1665–1789: Manufacture royale
Since the mid-17th century, luxury products such as silk textiles, lace, and mirrors were in high demand. In the 1660s, mirrors had become very popular among the upper classes of society: Italian cabinets, châteaux, ornate side tables, and pier-tables were decorated with these expensive and luxurious products. At the time however, the French were not known for mirror technology; instead, the Republic of Venice was known as the world leader in glass manufacturing, controlling a technical and commercial monopoly of the glass and mirror business. As a result, French Minister of Finance Jean-Baptiste Colbert wanted France to become completely self-sufficient in meeting domestic demand for luxury products, thereby strengthening the national economy.

Colbert established, by letters patent, the public enterprise Manufacture royale de glaces de miroirs (, Royal Mirror-Glass Factory) in October 1665. The company was created for a period of twenty years and would be financed in part by the State. The beneficiary and first director was the French financier Nicolas du Noyer, a receiver of taxes of Orléans, who was granted a monopoly of making glass and mirror-glass for twenty years. The company had the informal name Compagnie du Noyer.

To compete with the Italian mirror industry, Colbert commissioned several Venetian glassworkers he had enticed to Paris to work for the company. The first unblemished mirrors were produced in 1666. Soon the mirrors created in the Faubourg Saint-Antoine, under the French company, began to rival those of Venice. The French company was capable of producing mirrors that were 40 to 45 in, which at the time, was considered impressive. Competition between France and the Venetians became so fierce that Venice considered it a crime for any glass artisan to leave and practice their trade elsewhere, especially in foreign territory. Nicolas du Noyer complained in writing that the Venetians were unwilling to impart the secrets of glassmaking to the French workers and that the company was hard-pressed to pay its expenses. Life in Paris proved distracting to the workers, and supplies of firewood to stoke the furnaces were dearer in the capital than elsewhere. In 1667, the glass-making was transferred to a small glass furnace already working at Tourlaville, near Cherbourg in Normandy, and the premises in Faubourg Saint-Antoine were devoted to glass-grinding and polishing the crude product.

Though the Compagnie du Noyer was reduced at times to importing Venetian glass and finishing it in France, by September 1672 the royal French manufacturer was on a sufficiently sound footing for the importation of glass to be forbidden to any of Louis' subjects, under any conditions. In 1678, the company produced the glass for the Hall of Mirrors at the Palace of Versailles.

In 1683, the company's financial arrangement with the State was renewed for another two decades. However, in 1688 the rival Compagnie Thévart was created, also financed in part by the state. Compagnie Thévart used a new pouring process that allowed it to make plate glass mirrors measuring at least 60 by, much bigger than the 40 in that the Compagnie du Noyer could create.

The two companies competed for seven years, until 1695 when the economy slowed down and their technical and commercial rivalry became counterproductive. Under an order from the French government, the two companies were forced to merge, creating the Compagnie Plastier. A mirror factory in the village of Saint-Gobain in Picardie gave its name to the present company.

In 1702, Compagnie Plastier declared bankruptcy. A group of Franco-Swiss Protestant bankers rescued the collapsing company, changing the name to Compagnie Dagincourt. At the same time, the company was provided royal patents which allowed it to maintain a legal monopoly in the glass-manufacturing industry up until the French Revolution (1789), despite fierce, sometimes violent, protests from free enterprise partisans.

1789–1910: Industrial Revolution
In 1789, as a consequence of the French Revolution, the state financial and competitive privileges accorded to Compagnie Dagincourt were abolished. The company now had to depend on the participation and capital of private investors, although it continued to remain partly under the control of the French state.

In the 1820s, Saint-Gobain continued to function as it had under the Ancien Régime, manufacturing high-quality mirrors and glass for the luxury market. However, in 1824, a new glass manufacturer was established in Commentry, France, and 1837, several Belgian glass manufacturers were also founded. While Saint-Gobain continued to dominate the luxury high-quality mirror and glass markets, its newly created competitors focused their attention on making medium and low-quality products. The manufacture of products of such quality made mirrors and glass affordable for the masses. In response, the company extended its product line to include lower-quality glass and mirrors.

In 1830, just as Louis-Philippe became King of the newly restored French Monarchy, Saint-Gobain was transformed into a Public Limited Company and became independent from the state for the first time.

While mirrors remained their primary business, Saint-Gobain began to diversify their product line to include glass panes for skylights, roofs, and room dividers, thick mirrors, semi-thick glass for windows, laminated mirrors and glass, and finally embossed mirrors and windowpanes. Some of the more famous buildings that Saint-Gobain contributed to during that period were the Crystal Palace in London, Jardin des Plantes, the Grand Palais and adjacent Petit Palais in Paris, and the Milan Central railway station.

Saint-Gobain merged with another French glass and mirror manufacturer, Saint-Quirin, in the mid-19th century. After the merger, the company was able to gain control of 25% of European glass and mirror production (before, it had only controlled 10–15%). In response to growing international competition, the company began to open up new manufacturing facilities in countries without any domestic manufacturers.

Saint-Gobain cast the glass blanks of some of the largest optical reflecting telescopes of the early 20th century, including the ground-breaking 60 in Hale telescope (online in 1908), the 61-inch (1.54 m) Bosque Alegre telescope built in 1912, for the Argentine National Observatory, directed by Charles D. Perrine, and 100 inch (2.5 m) Hooker telescope (online 1917) at Mount Wilson Observatory (United States), and the 72 in Plaskett telescope (online in 1918) at Dominion Astrophysical Observatory (Canada).

By the end of the 19th century, Saint-Gobain named the Casa Pellandini “its sole representative and exclusive depositary throughout the Mexican Republic."

1910–1950: Post Industrial Revolution
Saint-Gobain experienced significant success in the early 20th century. In 1918, the company expanded its manufacturing to bottles, jars, tableware, and domestic glassware.

In 1920, Saint-Gobain extended its businesses to fibreglass manufacturing. Fibreglass was being used to create insulation, industrial textiles, and building reinforcements. In 1937, the company founded Isover, a subsidiary fibreglass insulation manufacturer.

During this period, the company developed three new glassmaking techniques and processes; first, a dipping technique used to coat car windows, which prevented the glass from shattering in the event of an accident. As a result of that technique, 10% of Saint-Gobain's 1920 sales came from the car industry, and 28% in 1930. Second, a few years later, another technique was developed that allowed glass to be shaped and bent. Finally, a process was developed to coat glass with aluminium, allowing it to be used as a conductor, and allowed the company to create products such as the ‘radiavers’ (French for “radiating glass”), a unique type of electric heater with the heating element encased in glass.

1950–1970: Pont-à-Mousson merger
Between 1950 and 1969, Saint-Gobain's sales rose at a rate of 10% per year. Its workforce grew from 35,000 in 1950 to 100,000 in 1969. By the end of the 1960s, Saint-Gobain had more than 150 subsidiaries under its control.

Glass and fibreglass sales benefited from the booming construction industry and the rise in mass consumption after the Second World War. Saint-Gobain's yearly glass production went from 3.5 e6m2 in 1950 to 45 e6m2 in 1969. In 1950, fibreglass only represented 4% of the company's turnover, but by 1969, this had grown to 20%.

Domestic sales in France accounted for only a fifth of the company's revenue. Spain, Germany, Italy, Switzerland, and Belgium were also important markets.

In 1968, Boussois-Souchon-Neuvesel, a French industrial group, made a hostile takeover bid for Saint-Gobain. The company looked for a "white knight" to help fend off the bid. Multinational corporation Suez suggested that Saint-Gobain and Pont-à-Mousson (another French industrial group) should merge, to maintain independence from Boussois-Souchon-Neuvesel. After the merger, Saint-Gobain-Pont-à-Mousson, later known simply by the name "Saint-Gobain", produced pipes in addition to glass and fibreglass.

1971–1986: Nationalisation
The next fifteen years were a time of change and reorganization for the newly merged companies. In the 1970s, Western economies were suffering a sharp downturn. Saint-Gobain's financial performance was adversely affected by the economic and petrol crisis.

In 1981 and 1982, ten of France's top-performing companies were nationalized by the socialist party-controlled Fifth Republic of France. By February 1982, Saint-Gobain was officially controlled by the state. However, the company did not last long as a government-owned corporation; it was re-privatized in 1987.

1986–present: Expansion
When Saint-Gobain once again became a private enterprise, control of the company quickly changed hands. Jean-Louis Beffa, an engineer and graduate of the École Polytechnique, became the CEO. Beffa invested heavily in research and development and pushed strongly for the company to produce engineered materials, such as abrasives and ceramics.

Under Beffa, the company continued to expand internationally, setting up foreign factories, and acquiring many of its foreign competitors. In 1996 the company bought Poliet (the French building and construction distribution group) and its subsidiaries, such as Point P. and Lapeyre. This expanded Saint-Gobain's product line into construction materials and their distribution. In 2005, Olivier Bluche took the helm of Supply Chain Operations, quickly modernising the company's lengthy and dated processes. In October 2022, Saint-Gobain Films & Fabrics was renamed Saint-Gobain Composite Solutions. In 2023, the company's India-arm acquired Twiga Fiberglass, a manufacturer of glass wool with production facilities located near Delhi and Mumbai.

Head office
The company has its head office in Les Miroirs in La Défense and in Courbevoie. The 97 m building served as the company head office since 1981.

Executive committee
As of August 2019, the executive committee of Saint-Gobain is composed of:
 * Pierre-André de Chalendar, Chairman – Chief Executive Officer
 * Benoit Bazin, Chief Operating Officer
 * Laurent Guillot, Senior Vice-President, CEO High Performance Solutions.
 * Patrick Dupin, Senior Vice-President, CEO Northern Europe Region
 * Guillaume Texier, Senior Vice-President, CEO Southern Europe, Middle East and Africa Region
 * Thomas Kinisky, Senior Vice-President, Innovation and Chairman North America
 * Javier Gimeno, Senior Vice-President, CEO Asia-Pacific Region
 * Mike Newnham, CEO Saint-Gobain Building Distribution UK & Ireland and Managing Director of Jewson
 * Claire Pedini, Senior Vice-President, Human Resources and Digital Transformation.
 * Sreedhar N., Chief Financial Officer
 * Armand Ajdari, Vice-President, Research and Development
 * Antoine Vignial, Corporate Secretary in charge of Corporate Social Responsibility
 * Julie Bonamy, Vice-President Strategy
 * Benoit d’Irirbarne, Vice-President Technology and Industrial Performance
 * Laurence Pernot, Vice-President Communications

Business Sectors
Saint-Gobain is organized into three major Sectors (% by 2014 Net Sales restated excluding Verallia): Building Distribution (49%), Construction Products (27.5%), Innovative Materials (23.5%).

Building distribution
Saint-Gobain's Building Distribution (building supplies) division was created in 1996. Since then it has grown both internally and through acquisitions (in France with Point P. and Lapeyre, the UK with Jewson and Graham, in Germany, the Netherlands and Eastern Europe with Raab Karcher and in the Nordic Countries with Dahl). The division has 3,500 stores in 23 countries and employs 52,000 people worldwide. Its 2006 sales amounted to 17.6 billion euros. The divisions current subsidiaries are:
 * SGBD UK
 * Raab Karcher
 * Point P.
 * Lapeyre
 * Brødrene (Brothers) Dahl
 * Norandex Distribution
 * Optimera, with the 'Monter' DIY chain

On 1 March 2023, the UK business was divested and sold to Stark Group

Construction products
The Construction Products division is organized into the following business areas:

- Gypsum, which manufactures drywall

- Insulation, which manufactures acoustic and thermal fibreglass and PIR insulation

- Exterior Products, which manufactures roofing, interior and exterior products

- Pipes, which manufactures cast-iron pipes for water transfer applications

- Mortars, which manufactures expanded clay lightweight aggregates.

The Construction Products division employs 45,000 people worldwide and in 2006 had sales revenues of 10.9 billion euros.

Companies:
 * CertainTeed
 * Gyproc
 * Weber
 * Celotex, based at Hadleigh, Suffolk

Innovative materials

The Innovative Materials division conducts research into various areas of materials science, energy, the environment, and medicine, such as fuel cells or particle filters. It operates centres in Cavaillon, Northborough, Massachusetts and Shanghai, employing 35,800 people. Overall, the division's sales are made up of at least 30% new products. In 2006, total sales revenue was 4.9 billion euros. Innovative Materials also manufactures glass products, including self-cleaning, electrochromic, low-emissivity and sun-shielding glass. It is active in 39 countries, targeting emerging economies, a market that now accounts for more than one-third of the division's sales. It employs a global workforce of 37,100 and in 2006 had sales revenues of 5.1 billion euros. This division is divided in two parts:

- Flat Glass subsidiaries : Saint-Gobain Glass, Glassolutions and Saint-Gobain Sekurit

- High Performance Materials : Saint-Gobain SEFPRO Saint-Gobain Abrasives, Saint-Gobain Crystals, Saint-Gobain Norton, Saint-Gobain Quartz and Saint-Gobain Norpro

In 2006, Saint Gobain announced a JV, Avancis, with Shell to produce PV modules based on CIS film technology. After the company had entirely owned Avancis and its two plants in Germany manufacturing thin CIS film modules for some time, it was sold to China National Building Materials Group Corporation (CNBM) in 2014.

External venturing
Saint-Gobain also has a division that focuses on connecting entrepreneurs, startups, and innovators to the 50+ bin Saint-Gobain called: NOVA External Venturing. The External Venturing unit has staff in Boston, Paris, and Shanghai interested in connecting with entrepreneurs working in advanced materials, construction products, and environmental sustainability.

Acquisitions and sales
Saint-Gobain has made a number of recent acquisitions in the past several years. In December 2005, it purchased the British company BPB plc, the world's largest manufacturer of plasterboard, for US$6.7 billion. In August 2007, the company acquired Maxit Group, doubling the size of its Industrial Mortars business and adding the manufacture of expanded clay aggregates to its business portfolio. In 2012, the company acquired SAGE Electrochromics, an innovative manufacturer of glass that tints on command. In 2018 Saint Gobain acquired UK-based Farécla Products, one of the largest polishing compound manufacturers in the world. In 2024, Saint-Gobain agreed to acquire Australian building materials maker CSR Limited for A$4.5billion (US$2.95billion).

The company has also sold off various assets. Recently the company sold its cosmetic glass manufacturing business, including a plant in Newton County, Georgia, United States.

Saint-Gobain Gyproc Middle-East
Saint-Gobain Gyproc Middle East began trading as Gyproc in 2005. In April 2010, the company's first plasterboard manufacturing plant opened on a seven-hectare site in Abu Dhabi.

Gyproc products have been used on some of the largest projects in the region, including the stations and main depot for Dubai Metro; Atlantis Hotel – Palm Jumeirah, Capital Gate – Abu Dhabi, Ferrari Experience – Abu Dhabi and Masdar Institute – Abu Dhabi.

Saint-Gobain in India
Saint-Gobain India Private Limited – Glass Business (formerly Saint-Gobain Glass India Limited) is a subsidiary of Saint Gobain that manufactures and markets solar control glass, fire-resistant glass and other various types of float glasses in India. It has its manufacturing plant at Sriperumbudur, 40 km from Chennai.

Saint-Gobain started its venture in India in 1996 by acquiring a majority stake of Grindwell Norton. Later in 2000, it started its own glass manufacturing unit at Sriperumbudur. In June 2011, Saint Gobain Glass India acquired Sezal Glass float-line business, based in the state of Gujarat, India. The acquisition adds about 550 tons per day additional capacity, and the deal was inked at around US$150 million. In addition, Saint-Gobain Glass invested in Bhiwadi, Rajasthan in 2014, which adds another 950 tons of glass per day. And recently in 2018, Saint-Gobain again invested in Sriperumbudur with 950-ton capacity, which results in the production of 3850 tons of glass per day from India.

Brands
Saint-Gobain comprises several brands, including Saint-Gobain Glass, Saint-Gobain Performance Plastics, RIW, GCP Applied Technologies, Weber, British Gypsum, Decoustics, Glassolutions, Gyproc, Artex, Isover, CTD, Ecophon, Pasquill and PAM.

Environmental impact
Saint-Gobain had contaminated ground water supply with PFAS (perfluorooctanoic acid – a highly persistent contaminant) in multiple towns in Southern New Hampshire, USA. Elevated levels of perfluorooctanoic acid were found in 2016, near the Saint-Gobain plant in Merrimack. Pollution has been occurring for over 20 years. Saint-Gobain deliberately and intentionally constructed a bypass stack to thwart environmental inspections and avoid PFAS removal. Despite this flagrant violation of their permit they were allowed to continue to operate. Former state representative and environmental scientist Mindi Messmer has linked exposure to Saint-Gobain’s PFAS emissions with kidney and renal pelvis cancer, testicular cancer, female breast cancer, prostate cancer, ulcerative colitis, thyroid disease, high cholesterol, cardiovascular impacts. As of 2022, Saint Gobain is involved in multimillion-dollar class-action lawsuits. Its former company lawyer was terminated after he repeatedly urged "the company to do more to address contamination from their plants in Merrimack; Bennington, Vermont; and Hoosick Falls, N.Y".

title: Saint-Gobain


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Praying with Anger

Praying with Anger is a 1992 independent drama film directed by M. Night Shyamalan, who made his directorial debut. Shyamalan also wrote, produced, and starred in the film.

It is about a young Indian American's return to India and explores the clash of Western values with those of the Indian subcontinent.

Plot
Indian American Dev Raman returns to his native country to spend a year as part of a college exchange program. He is initially reluctant, but his mother insists, and he respects her wishes. While there, he discovers that his cold and distant father, now deceased, carried a quiet and profound affection towards him.

While he is in India, he receives guidance from his friend Sanjay. As the visit progresses, Dev ignores Sanjay's suggestions, and the interaction between Indian and Western cultures quickly precipitates into misunderstanding and violence.

Dev realizes that one may pray to the deities of the Hindu pantheon in almost any emotional state except indifference. As he explores his past and sees the miscommunication between the two cultures, Dev is overwhelmed and finds himself only able to pray with anger.

Release
The film never received a wide release for mainstream distribution and has been shown primarily at film festivals. Praying with Anger screened at the 1993 AFI Fest, where it won the "First Film Competition" for American independent filmmakers.

Cast

 * M. Night Shyamalan as Dev Raman
 * Mike Muthu as Sanjay
 * Richa Ahuja as Rupal Mohan
 * Sushma Ahuja as Mrs. Mohan
 * Arun Balachandran as Raj Kahn
 * Christabal Howie as Sabitha

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Praying with Anger


text: User talk:68.51.32.225

title: User talk:68.51.32.225


text:
Judy Nylon

Judy Nylon (born Judith Anne Niland in 1948) is a multidisciplinary American artist who moved to London in 1970. She was half of the punk rock music group Snatch, which also featured fellow American expat Patti Palladin. She had an influence on glam, punk and no wave music in New York City and London, although the bulk of this has not been preserved in any record. NME's Paul Tickell described her LP Pal Judy (1982), coproduced by Nylon and Adrian Sherwood, as "a classic rainy day bit of sound and song to drift away to."

Nylon is the subject of Brian Eno's song "Back in Judy's Jungle" and appeared in the video for the song song "China My China", from his 1974 LP Taking Tiger Mountain (By Strategy). Eno also credits Nylon as an influence in the genesis of ambient music on the back cover of his 1975 LP Discreet Music. In 1978, Eno and Snatch made "R.A.F." (b/w "Kings Lead Hat"), which involves sound elements from a Baader Meinhof ransom message as part of Nylon's sound montage/cut-up practice.

During the '70s she often collaborated with Welsh musician/producer John Cale. In 1974 she added spoken sections to the song "The Man Who Couldn't Afford to Orgy" on his album Fear. She subsequently performed with him at concerts and on other recordings, including his 1987 live album Even Cowgirls Get the Blues. Along with Patti Palladin, she also sang backing vocals with Johnny Thunders' All Stars on his early 1978 shows.

Since 2007 Nylon has periodically contributed to the collective Aether9, who collaborate on public art performances. Her multi-disciplinary work focuses on international co-authorship and decentralized many-to-many style video storytelling. In 2010, Nylon contributed guest vocals to the Babylon By Car album by the French electronica group Bot'Ox.

title: Judy Nylon


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Talk:Chelsea, Manhattan

"Chelsea takes its name from the Federal house"
I have to assume that by this "Chelsea takes its name from the Federal house..." the author meant that CC Moore's birthplace was a Federal-style house named Chelsea? I will edit the article. Quill 02:08, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes. Federal already means "Federal style," as Colonial means "in the Georgian style of the colonies." There had been an earlier, Colonial farmhouse, but it didn't have a name. Wetman 02:28, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * The current incarnation of the sentence is unclear for me.

 * "Chelsea takes its name from the Federal-style house of the Moore family, named after Chelsea, the manor of Sir Thomas More on which the borough in London has been built."

 * The Moore family (which one?) is named after a manor? Xiner 21:09, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Clement C. Moore
"The house was the birthplace of Clement Clarke Moore, who is more often credited with "A Visit From St. Nicholas"— which he may have authored— than with the first Greek and Hebrew lexicons printed in the United States, which he certainly authored."

Moore, was born in Newtown (now Elmhurst), NY. His house stood until 1933 in which it was demolished when building the subway. On the site of his former home is Moore Homestead Park. He moved to Chelsea after his marriage to his wife.

On The Waterfront
I'm not the one who zapped On the Waterfront. But it probably should be. It really jumps off as inaccurate (unless there's a citation). The movie was filmed in Hoboken and is based on Red Hook, Brooklyn (the original title was "The Hook"). There's lots of confusion when folks use the term New York waterfront. The New York waterfront refers to New York Harbor and so can be New Jersey or New York. By 1953 when the film was made, commercial freight in Manhattan was well into its decline (although Brooklyn continued to operate). Here's an article on the movie: http://www.filmsite.org/onth.html

Americasroof 13:46, 1 July 2006 (UTC)

HIV
"The HIV rate in Chelsea is twenty five percent"

Is this correct? That's as high as Sub-Saharan Africa, which is generally considered to be the worst affected area in the world (by a considerable margin) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.201.156.187 (talk) 07:52, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't know if the above statistic is correct,but I know HIV infection in Chelsea is higher the then national average sad but true.74.73.176.161 (talk) 14:01, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

 * That is completely false; perhaps it's in quotes to signify irony. Although some reports suggested up to half of gay men in certain neighborhoods had HIV, gay men have never even constituted twenty-five percent of the population in Chelsea.  Notably, the fabricator neither references nor signs their post.  Stephenrumson (talk) 21:09, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

 * That statement is no longer in the article. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:02, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Map
A simple MAP would help. 192.122.237.11 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 21:19, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
 * A map of what? The neighborhood?, the historic district(s)?  Including points of interest or just streets? Generally, finding usable (i.e. not copyrighted) maps is not easy. Sounds simple, but it ain't. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:47, 8 January 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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Poor images?

I don't really understand the edit or comment here. The images has good composition, resolution and composition. "Poor" is just a very subjective and random opinion. The quality is higher when most images in the article, compare with for example Cushman Row West 20th.jpg (perspective distortion, overexposed sky), Highline_519_and_HL23.jpg (perspective distortion, tight crop), IAC night jeh.jpg (perspective distortion, overall low quality with strong noise, tight crop) or General Theological Seminary Desmond Tutu Center.jpg (tight crop, perspective distortion, bad wb, overexposed sky). Both the building (London Terrace) (mentioned in the section) and the street 10th avenue is very relevant for the article.--ArildV (talk) 21:08, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * The image is dark, and the building is unidentifable. The building is also the subject of a clear, straightforward image later in the article, so there is no need for a repeat.  We don't need "artsy" images on Wikipedia, we need images that clearly represent their subject matter.  Jim Henderson's image of the IAC building manages to be both. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:48, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * (edit conflict) It's just nonsense, the building is not unidentifiable (you need to check your display). The images have a high educational value, showing both the building and streets. And please stop using suppression techniques and guilt by association arguments like "we dont need artsy images". I have uploaded thousands of high quality and high educational images to Wikimedia. The images clearly represent the building and the streets at night.--ArildV (talk) 22:04, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * And my display is fine, thank you. The matter is simple, your criteria for what is a "good" image is not Wikipedia's. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:51, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Suppression techniques is a poor substitute for argument. --ArildV (talk) 22:04, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * What the heck are "suppression techniques"?Your image is not suitable for the article, and does not enhance it. Strips of car lgiths and a hulking dark mass of a building shows nothing to our readers.  We are an encyclopedia, not a photographic art gallery, and our images, like our text, should convey information to them.  We need straight-forward, identifiable images, just as we need straight-forward and understandable writing, and not florid prosody.Your image has virtually no information in it, it could have been taken at almost any Manhattan intersection.  The buildings are unidentifiable (compare with the photo of the building later in the article, which shows what it actually looks like) and no information about 10th Avenue is conveyed, except that cars have lights they use at night which will make streaks on a long exposure.I'm glad that you've been so wonderfully honored at Commons for your photography, but that's not relevant here: their criteria are not ours.  Ours are what I've outlines above, and your image does not fulfill them.  I'm sorry if that hurts your ego, but that is the fact. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:16, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Um, a poor quality (dark and washed out) image is a poor quality image. And I don't see the point of it anyway. We have a perfectly good picture of London Terrace already in the article. --regentspark (comment) 22:23, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Master suppression techniques. And you are just repeating the the same false statement (the building is not unidentifiable or a "dark mass). As a substitute for argument, you are trying to teach me about wikipedia (I know Wikipedia). You don't hurt me, your hurt Wikipedia.--ArildV (talk) 22:25, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * You're entitled to your opinions about me, however wrong they are, but they don't change the fact that the image is not suitable for the article. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:28, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Its not a fact, is your very personal opinion. And your argument is a false statement (unidentifiable) and patronizing comments.--ArildV (talk) 22:32, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Regardless of your personal feelings, the image is not suitable, for the reasons outlined above. You've noted, I hope, that the only other editor to comment here agrees?  Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:34, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * "Personal feelings", again patronizing comments as a substitute for arguments. And another editor disagree.--ArildV (talk) 22:40, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

The image adds variety, per MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE, as it is the only night shot in the article. Photos taken at night are generally of a lower quality, though this particular image is well done and a tripod was obviously used. It should remain in the article. Magnolia677 (talk) 22:41, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Only night shot? Look again. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:50, 31 August 2017 (UTC)
 * So hey I see the redundancy between the images. I see how the night one is artsy with the exposure, but for a night photo, long exposure is necessary/beneficial. The day photo is slightly overexposed (as viewed on my monitor - typically a darker monitor too). The night photo shows some cafe night life I can appreciate. It's also framed better and the streets are clearer due to exposure/no big bus. Overall I sorta prefer the night one, as a photographer and for the encyclopedic value of the nightlife. ɱ  (talk) · vbm  · coi) 04:28, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I think it looks more washed out than artsy. And, does a single restaurant with no other street life really qualify as representative of "nightlife"? I don't think so. Do we just want to include an image "because it's there"?--regentspark (comment) 13:00, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Which one do you think is overexposed (washed out)? And many notable and august paintings of outdoor/nighttime dining only feature solely one business. If Vincent Van Gogh found it emblematic of dining nightlife, how can you disagree? ɱ  (talk) · vbm  · coi) 14:27, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * True (about Vinne). But, we're an encyclopedia not an art gallery. And, you did say "encyclopedic value of the nightlife". This image is not at all representative of the nightlife. What it says is that there is almost no nightlife (one restaurant, no pedestrians, no street life except for a few cars). Might as well be a shot of a street corner in LA. --regentspark (comment) 15:56, 1 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Irrelevant; I find the fact that a random street corner has so many people dining at so late is very representative. I'm done here, more things to move on to, I'll agree to disagree. ɱ  (talk) · vbm  · coi) 22:27, 2 September 2017 (UTC)

See recent updates. Filetime (talk) 01:00, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

Image sizes and external links to neighborhood guides
We shouldn't be fiddling around with image sizes, especially as the results one sees on their own screen / browser combinations may not match other users. I also fail to see why we should be including external links to various neighborhood guides, which should either be integrated into the article as references or simply removed.In terms of the image of London Terrace, I agree that the early evening picture leaves out too much details. The daytime shot provided in the section above would be a better choice.Discuss. Alansohn (talk) 22:54, 31 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Chelsea's eastern boundary
Let me preface this by stating that I understand that Manhattan neighborhood boundaries are generally unofficial and somewhat fluid. That said, the generally accepted boundaries of a neighborhood should be stated. If there is a strong general consensus as to a boundary, it should be used.

I take issue with referring to Chelsea's eastern boundary as "either Sixth Avenue or Fifth Avenue." Here are the reasons:
 * For decades, the New York Times has consistently expressed that Avenue of the Americas (Sixth Avenue) is Chelsea's rough eastern boundary. The lone Times "Living In Chelsea" report that referred to Fifth Avenue as its rough eastern boundary is almost 40 years old. This is the only source cited for that view. If this were still regarded by the Times as the rough eastern boundary of Chelsea, it would have referred to it again in the several Living In reports published since then. (Note: That 1982 article corresponds with a journalist's history of Chelsea's borders, showing that the view of its boundaries were most expansive in the late 1970s but have long since retreated to Sixth Avenue.)

All New York Times Living In Chelsea reports published more recently have set Sixth Avenue as its rough eastern boundary. See below:
 * 2000: "The neighborhood itself runs, roughly, from 14th Street to 29th Street and from the Avenue of the Americas to the Hudson River."
 * 2015: "Today’s Chelsea, the swath west of Avenue of the Americas between 14th and 34th Streets, could be the poster neighborhood for what Mayor Bill de Blasio calls the tale of two cities."
 * The current New York Times Real Estate Guide also has Sixth Avenue as the eastern boundary.
 * Further, even by 1985, a Living In report on the Flatiron District states that Flatiron is east of Sixth Avenue and distinct from Chelsea. All of the multiple "Living in the Flatiron District" reports published since then have followed suit.
 * In sum, the Times' view of Chelsea's rough eastern boundary has been consistent and clear. We should not rely on a source that is almost 40 years old when they have been very consistent since then.
 * Among the most official and quasi-official sources that can be found, the neighborhood does not extend beyond Sixth Avenue.
 * The municipality's list of block and neighborhood associations serving Chelsea do not include any that serve neighborhoods west of Sixth Avenue. Further, none of the Community Board 5 neighborhood associations (which Chelsea would include if it did extend to Fifth Avenue) have "Chelsea" in their titles or neighborhoods.
 * If Chelsea actually extended beyond Sixth Avenue to Fifth, it would swallow well-established neighborhoods that are regarded as distinct from Chelsea. It would effectively eat up the Flatiron District, a neighborhood that even appears on the municipality's official zoning map.
 * There is a very strong general consensus that the eastern boundary is Sixth Avenue. In addition to those already cited in the article, other strong sources include the following:
 * The Encyclopedia of New York City
 * Fodor's: Chelsea, p. 15
 * NYC Official Guide
 * PropertyShark: Map of Chelsea
 * Zillow/StreetEasy: Map of Chelsea
 * NYC Locality project map
 * CityNeighborhoods project map
 * Handbook for Moving to and Living in New York City

I propose referring to Sixth Avenue (not "either Sixth Avenue or Fifth Avenue") as Chelsea's rough eastern boundary.

Precision123 (talk) 23:00, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

Cultural Reference - Joni Mitchell
I believe Joni Mitchell's song "Chelsea Morning" recorded in 1969 is about waking up in this district on a beautiful spring morning. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Siglo2 (talk • contribs) 02:42, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

The French District
Much of Chelsea was a part of the French district, where most of the French immigrants lived. 2603:7080:953D:2470:8841:E4E7:7197:2758 (talk) 19:51, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Chelsea, Manhattan


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Talk:Martin B-10

Over-Info
I note a lot of information in the body of the article is redundant. In my opinion, this drags down the article quite a bit (the plane has two six-hundred hp engines that provide a top speed of 187mph and a cruising speed...). Could we eliminate a bit of this?--Ingoolemo 02:15, 2004 Aug 2 (UTC)

Extlinks in section headings
FWIW, putting external links in section headings is a little weird. For one thing, external links are better as reference material, thus their placement at the end. For another, we've been generally discouraging links of any sort in section headings, for aesthetic reasons mostly I think. A version of this article printed out might look kind of strange. Stan 04:50, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Assessment
This article could easily be a B-class with some inline citations and references other than external WebPages. --Colputt 13:59, 12 September 2007 (UTC) ✅

Claims about "powered" gun turret
I've encountered a factoid on the Interwebs about this plane having the first aircraft powered turret. It's not true, and I actually have a citation to a fuller online discussion of the design, which I would cite if I had the time to learn how to do that right now. http://home.att.net/~jbaugher2/b10.html --Erik Lund —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.5.117 (talk) 19:42, 13 December 2009 (UTC)

 * IIRC the first bomber with a proper power-operated turret was the Boulton Paul Overstrand, although the Hawker Turret Demon may pre-date it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.31.130.20 (talk) 16:05, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

Chinese Martin B-10 raid over Japan
Chinese Martin B-10 bombers dropped leaflets over Japanese cities on May 19, 1938, to prove that the Chinese air force was capable of striking Japan.

http://books.google.com/books?id=s2NKutuUlA8C&pg=PA320#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=mpSkIrOCrQkC&pg=PA126#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=Re8pJnCXvWoC&pg=PA265#v=onepage&q&f=false

http://books.google.com/books?id=N6yy9mXwAEUC&pg=PA86#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 00:56, 30 April 2013 (UTC)

English
Hi guys, I don't edit anymore as all my previous attempts were removed. Under the "Legacy" heading, the second phrase starts like this:

" It was half again as fast as any biplane bomber, " Not english. My opinion, I'm a French Canadian, the word " again " is superfluous.

Thank you for maintaining these pages. Netweezurd (talk)

 * It would be better worded as " It was twice as fast as any biplane bomber" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.31.130.20 (talk) 16:01, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

While it seems clumsy, "half again" is legitimate English usage, if a bit dated. It's not the same as "twice as fast." And if you delete "again," it comes out as "half as fast," which is incorrect. It might be better stated as "50% faster," but I don't see any real problem with this wording. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.248.185.22 (talk) 17:56, 18 November 2015 (UTC)

 * To be clear, even though this discussion is three years old at this point, "half" means 50% but "half again" means 150%. The B-10 was much faster than other bombers, not much slower. 71.197.234.30 (talk) 15:41, 7 December 2018 (UTC)

Operational history needs expansion
Dear Wikipedians, I tagged for expansion the section about use of this aircraft, can help with Argentine use but don't have sources for other countries. Any help will be greatly appreciated. Regards, DPdH (talk) 23:34, 29 July 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified (January 2018)
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text:
Talk:Strategic bombing during World War II

deleted
I deleted this: "and schools. (rev) { (/ref) }" since the source posted doesn't say anything about schools.

"American bombing raid" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect American bombing raid and has thus listed it at redirects for discussion. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 23 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. signed,Rosguill talk 20:59, 23 December 2021 (UTC)

Featured picture scheduled for POTD
Hello! This is to let editors know that File:Bombing of Concordia Vega oil refinery in Ploești by USAAF B-24s, 31 May 1944 — restored.jpg, a featured picture used in this article, has been selected as the English Wikipedia's picture of the day (POTD) for November 5, 2022. A preview of the POTD is displayed below and can be edited at Template:POTD/2022-11-05. For the greater benefit of readers, any potential improvements or maintenance that could benefit the quality of this article should be done before its scheduled appearance on the Main Page. If you have any concerns, please place a message at Wikipedia talk:Picture of the day. Thank you! Adam Cuerden (talk)Has about 7.9% of all FPs 09:38, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

Germans killed by strategic bombing v Germans killed by Nazis
Hello all,

An unregistered editor deleted the following statement: "The number of German civilians estimated to die of strategic bombing, about 500,000, is about the same as Germans who died of Nazi repression from 1933 to 1945."

I restored it, changed the grammar, and moved it to the section on Casualties where it more logically belongs. The editor's edit summary stated that the comparison is "spurious, argumentative, and irrelevant." However, if the source is accurately quoted then it does make this comparison.The question is whether such a comparson is useful and belongs in a general article of this kind. Also note the different estimate of civilian deaths in this source.

Happy to discuss. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 04:13, 1 February 2024 (UTC)

 * I've just checked the source, which is available online via the Cambridge Core resource, and it does include this comparison. The problem with how it's been used here is that it's been taken out of context: Gerlach appears to be noting that the deaths from bombing were due ultimately to the actions of the German regime - the relevant para starts with "In many European countries the number of non-Jewish victims of German and Axis violence – even putting military losses aside – far surpassed that of Jews who were murdered". The para also notes the millions of non-German Jews and other people who died as a result of the Nazi regime's actions, which was also excluded here. The next para puts this plainly, noting that "During World War II, Germans (and people from other powers) killed not only 6 million Jews but also 6–8 million other non-combatants". The footnote cited here also includes the 60,000 French civilians killed in the Allied bombing as part of the deaths resulting from Germany's actions. Comparing deaths from Allied bombing to artificially low figures of deaths directly caused by the Nazis is a common Holocaust denial trope. As such, I've removed this. It it was to be included, it would need to better reflect what the source says, and also note other sources on this issue. Other historians note that the Nazi regime was ultimately responsible for the bombing deaths, and this was plainly stated as part of the displays at the main museum to the bombing of Hamburg when I visited in 2015. Nick-D (talk) 10:24, 1 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Thanks for checking that out. Agree with your reasons for removal. Aemilius Adolphin (talk) 21:10, 1 February 2024 (UTC)


text:
Brian White

Brian White may refer to:

 * Brian White (British politician) (1957–2016), former British Labour Party Member of Parliament
 * Brian White (Canadian politician) (born 1951), former Canadian Progressive Conservative Member of Parliament
 * Brian White (cartoonist) (1902–1984), British cartoonist famous for 'The Nipper'
 * Brian White (cricketer) (born 1944), former English cricketer
 * Brian White (ice hockey) (born 1976), American ice hockey player
 * Brian White (mathematician), professor at Stanford University
 * Brian White (soccer) (born 1996), American soccer player
 * Brian White (referee), Gaelic football referee
 * Brian J. White (born 1975), actor on TV series The Shield and film The Game Plan
 * W. Brian White (born 1967), American politician in the South Carolina House of Representatives

title: Brian White