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Talk:Machu Picchu

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Mudslide cuts train access
Historical note: This mudslide has cut train access to Machu Picchu for the first time in many years of crowded tourist flow through the archeological site and community. This historical note will currently offer a helpful/useful logistical warning to travelers planning to visit soon. At some point in time (after repair?) it should be re-phrased in terms of its importance as it affects the history of tourism to the site. Wikidity (talk) 02:21, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a travel guide. It is highly unlikely that the mudslide will have any long-term affect on the site at all, and the cutting of the rail route for a few days in irrelevant in terms of Machu Picchu and its history. Regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 08:09, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

Agreed. Dr. Blofeld       White cat 15:06, 26 January 2010 (UTC)
 * This isn't a unique event: The rail line was blocked a few years ago by a rock slide. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 17:26, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

I don't think it really matters how many times it occurs - the railway is not Machu Picchu. It might, doubtfully, merit a mention in the Aguas Calientes, Peru article or possibly PeruRail, but not here. The railway is a transport link. Mentioning inevitable hickups on that would be like putting a mention into Portsmouth Historic Dockyard that tourist visits were affected when the railway network was severely disrupted by heavy snowfall over southern England in January. Looking at the news article that was linked, it looks like severe whether had affected the whole region and that undue weight was given to its affect on access to Machu Picchu. These kind of things are likely to be seasonal. Best regards, Simon Burchell (talk) 21:26, 26 January 2010 (UTC)

3D Model of Machu Picchu
Is it appropriate to add a paragraph that points out that there is now a detailed 3D model of Machu Picchu on Google Earth? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pmolsen (talk • contribs) 06:00, 4 May 2010 (UTC)
 * The article already contains a link in the upper right (click on the numerical coordinates for the location) from which a user can select any mapping software they wish to use. Google Earth is one of those options.  --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 19:41, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

There is nothing there to indicate that there is now a 3D model available. Anyone who had previously looked on Google would have no reason to go back as there was nothing worth looking at previously. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Pmolsen (talk • contribs) 20:17, 4 May 2010 (UTC)

Would the following addition to the article be considered of sufficient educational merit please?

3D Laser Scan

In 2005 and 2009 the University of Arkansas carried out detailed 3D laser scans of the entire site. The scan data is available for free download for research purposes (xfef pointing to Uni of Arkansas download data).

Also would it be acceptable to insert the following External Link please?

"Machu Picchu model for Google Earth"

A similar link is provided in numerous other Wikipedia pages, including the following to mention a few. They also have the numerical coordinates mentioned by Barek above:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Computing_Center http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clock_Tower,_Faisalabad http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Mar%C3%ADa_del_Naranco http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_the_Future_(Yalta) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megyeri_Bridge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokyo_Metropolitan_Government_Building http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bryggen http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheong_Fatt_Tze http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pennybacker_Bridge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_of_Arabic_Studies http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schloss_Johannisburg http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gran_Teatro_Falla http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadium_MK http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arnos_Grove_tube_station http://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giza_pyramid_complex http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giza_Necropolis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burj_Al_Arab http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turner_Field http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exhibition_Park,_Newcastle http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuala_Lumpur_Tower http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89glise_de_la_Madeleine http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_Assembly_Building http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuwait_Towers http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King's_College_Chapel,_Cambridge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eleanor_Schonell_Bridge

Pmolsen (talk) 19:53, 5 May 2010 (UTC)
 * Still looks a little bit like advertising to me, sorry. I mean, you can mention the laser scan but don't say where you can get it. Use a reference, so if people want to learn more, they can see the reference. Hope this helps --Tommy2010 03:24, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

 * The coordinates exist so that no mapping software is given a marketing advantage by having preferential treatment over any others - so I disagree with adding a direct link, and suspect the links in the other examples should be removed (need to look closer when I have a chance). That said, if a third party reliable source mentions the 3D model and can be used as a source, then it may be reasonable to add sentence or two mention without the link in the body of the article. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 04:04, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

I will refrain from adding a link for now and will check the other pages referred to in a couple of weeks. That said, I think you will be doing Wiki users a big disservice if you remove those links. A 3D model of a place or structure is the best way of describing it. It means more than a thousand words about the item. What does it matter if the model is in SKP (GE) format rather than DXF or OBJ or a dozen other formats? They can all be converted from one to the other anyway.

Several organisations such as CyArk and many universities have embarked on major 3D modelling projects of heritage sites. When the 3D models of those works are published will Wiki also ban any reference to them? As with those the vast majority of Google 3D models are created free of charge and for no commercial gain. They are mostly done by private individuals like me who do it simply for the challenge. In the case of Machu Picchu it was over 1,200 hours of work.

You say above that the proposed link seems like advertising. Almost all external references in Wiki are to pages that contain advertising (usually by Google). That is a simple fact of life these days and is the sole reason that most web content is free.

Most significant events are also reported on by hundreds of reputable media outlets. Every time one particular media source is quoted as a source in Wiki you are boosting that company's profile and hence profits. They are not charity organisations. It would also be naiive to think that media outlets are not providing content to Wiki anonymously to boost their own profiles.

Most media articles also contain the name of the journalist. That reference boosts his profile and hence ultimately his income, yet there is no attempt to censor that information.

If it is simply the fact that I am the author of the model that bothers you would it help if the reference was instead added by say the Peruvian government or the University of Arkansas?

Barek, would you consider Christopher Heaney to be one of the reliable sources that you refer to? Pmolsen (talk) 23:16, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

 * I was not aware that you were the author, that opens a whole new set of problems, see WP:COI. Also, for reliable sources, see WP:RS.
 * The argument that WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is a red herring, and has only flagged other issues. As for links, the models are already reachable via the coord tag (try clicking on it, one of the options is Google Earth), the whole point of that link is to provide the information along side multiple available options, so no one map system stands out promotionally over the others. --- Barek (talk • contribs) - 00:54, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

 * I can see the point that someone reading this article might be very interested to learn that there is a 3D model. However, it is inappropriate to add text to the article which does nothing more than highlight a particular external website (particularly with such detailed text). Wikipedia has to have fairly blunt methods of dealing with the hundreds of spam additions made every day, and it is generally felt that the spamming of high-quality material is still spamming, and should be removed to avoid every article becoming little more than a series of promotions. As mentioned above, the best way to handle this would be to find a published reliable source (something by Christopher Heaney probably would be very suitable) that contains a fact relating to the model, then add the fact with a reference. The reference could perhaps contain a very brief statement about accessing the model (ideally, the reference would include that information, and we would only need to refer to the source). An ideal fact would be that the model revealed certain information, rather than simply that the model exists. Johnuniq (talk) 04:38, 8 May 2010 (UTC)

Johnuniq, I am not proposing adding text to the article "(particularly with such detailed text)". What I am proposing is simply an external link at the bottom like this:

 * 3d Model of Machu Picchu

It would be identical to that included in hundreds of other Wiki pages, examples of which are listed above:

Barek, with regard to your WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS comment, I reproduce the following quote from that page:

"When used correctly though, these comparisons are important as the encyclopedia should be consistent in the content that it provides or excludes. The problem arises when legitimate comparisons are disregarded without thought because "other stuff existing is not a reason to keep/create/etc."

In this case we are talking about an external link that is absolutely identical in form and substance to over 100 other Wiki pages hence my use of OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is not a red herring at all.

The only relevant consideration is whether those links in the other pages are valid or should also be removed. A 3D model in most cases provides a researcher with unique information not available via words and photographs and hence I believe those links are very worthwhile, assuming the function of an encyclopedia is to provide ready access to relevant information about a topic. Pmolsen (talk) 04:55, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * That looks good to me (however, is "3d" or "3D" appropriate?). I suggest you wait to give other editors a chance to comment. Suggestion: It is usually not a good idea to debate procedures with experienced editors because there will be factors you may not have encountered (a very important one in this case is that standard practice usually overrides the wording of an essay). Just stick to asking questions about the particular case (adding the link to this article). Johnuniq (talk) 08:51, 9 May 2010 (UTC)
 * I added the link to the 3D model. I also removed the wmf.org link (which I think is now here) because it just links to a large pdf which has only a very small item relating to this topic. Johnuniq (talk) 02:58, 11 May 2010 (UTC)

1981 or 1971
The lead says that Machu Picchu was declared a Peruvian Historical Sanctuary in 1981, but in Machu Picchu we find: An area of 325.92 square kilometers surrounding Machu Picchu was declared a "Historical Sanctuary" of Peru in 1971. This edit added "(page previously mentions 1981?)", so that text needs to be removed, and the date verified. Also, the misguided "325.92" needs to be replaced with "326". A reference would be handy!

Google finds lots of sites supporting 1981, but the sites I have found are not at all reliable, and have probably just copied the text from each other, or from here. I found two sites supporting 1971, but that could easily be a typo which was copied from one site to the other. This example says An area of 326 square kilometers surrounding Machu Picchu was declared a "Historical Sanctuary" of Peru in 1971. The same site says 1981 on its main page. I'm hoping that someone has a book or other suitable reference, and can clean up this point. Johnuniq (talk) 02:00, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Filming at M-P?
An edit that has been removed a couple of times says The song "Kilimanjaro", from the 2010 Tamil Movie "Endhiran", ... was filmed at Macchu Picchu in Peru. but it only cites Wikipedia. If it was acttually filmed at M-P it's significant, otherwise it's piffle - but I can't find a good source. Anybody out there know? = DavidWBrooks (talk) 10:52, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

Twin towns
I was thinking of removing the new "Twin towns" section (added in these four edits) because it seems trivial, and the flag icon is intrusive. However, looking around shows these are accepted elsewhere (example). Any thoughts? Johnuniq (talk) 01:17, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

 * I added this, and I can see where you are coming from with the Union Flag being intrusive, but as most town sections have twin town sub-sections. The fact that Machu Picchu is uninhabited is irrelevant Haworth has Machu Picchu on it's page, so I believe this page should stay as it is. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Zolstijers (talk • contribs) 18:38, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Lynntas, 14 February 2011
edit semi-protected

Reference for smallpox infections among the Incans prior to Spanish incursion is: McNeill, W.H. 1976. Plagues & Peoples, p. 183. Thx, I'm a "newbie to Wiki, & have Anthropology degrees. I am also an experienced editor, & may want to contribute to Wiki.

Lynntas (talk) 20:43, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks for your contributions! ~ Matthewrbowker  Say hi! 01:43, 15 February 2011 (UTC)

Strokes song 'Machu Picchu'
Is it relevant to mention it in the media section? Pritstick94 (talk) 19:58, 19 March 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think so. The current items are somewhat dubious but at least have reasonable notability and relevance to the topic of the article. I do not know the song, but to warrant mention here a song would need to be do a lot more than mention the topic. Johnuniq (talk) 23:26, 19 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Is the son actually about Machu Picchu, or does it just use the name as a metaphor? - DavidWBrooks (talk) 00:01, 20 March 2011 (UTC)

File:80 - Machu Picchu - Juin 2009 - edit.2.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:80 - Machu Picchu - Juin 2009 - edit.2.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on June 18, 2011. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2011-06-18. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page so Wikipedia doesn't look bad. :) Thanks!  howcheng  {chat} 16:37, 17 June 2011 (UTC)

"Raiders of the Lost Ark" Based on "Secret of the Incas"
Don't know how relevant this may be, but "Raiders of the Lost Ark" was based on the movie "Secret of the Incas" (1954) with Charlton Heston. They even ripped off Charlton Heston's costume for Harrison Ford's (fedora, leather jacket, tote bag, pistol, khaki, etc). 209.77.229.154 (talk) 09:46, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Doesn't seem relevant to this article - it's not like "Raiders" was filmed at MP, or even references it. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 14:12, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

Ashlar Masonry was not invented by Incas
This article is a bit biased and reads in many places like a travel brochure. It makes it seem as if the building techniques at Machu Picchu were somehow revolutionary or new. The fact is that the buildings of Machu Picchu were built in a manner remarkably similar to many buildings which predate it by over two thousand years. For example, the building techniques used in Mycenae, which had been built 2600 years before Machu Picchu, are remarkably the same.

Here is a photo comparing the lion gate at Mycenae with a doorway at Macchu Picchu:

I tried adding this to the article but the important information was removed by DavidWBrooks with the comment "What does Greek architecture have to do with MP? That seems a really unnecessary parallel.." I am leaving the information here for discussion as to whether it should be included or not.KoshkaCoon (talk) 18:05, 9 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Since the chances that the Inca knew anything about Greek artchitecture are very slim, this interesting material needs (IMHO, of course) to be added as a separate section pointing out that the apparently coincidenctal parallel exists - I reverted it because it was placed in the article in such a way as to imply that MP was at least partly inspired by Mycenae or its equivalent. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 00:34, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Addition of such would need to be supported by reliable sources (scholarly works, not popular press stuff) noting the significance of the observed parallels. Vsmith (talk) 00:53, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * In general, it is not appropriate to add commentary to an article unless the source specifically comments on the topic of the article. Even if that is satisfied, it is not necessarily helpful to note, for example, all building techniques that are similar to those mentioned in this article. It is not as if someone is claiming (at least not in this article I hope) that the Incas were the only people to ever build in this style, so a reason would be needed to add this observation, despite its interest. Also, there are only so many ways of assembling stone blocks, so perhaps the similarity between the photos is not particularly significant (a source would be needed to clarify that). Johnuniq (talk) 01:18, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

The face?
Would it be acceptable to mention the literal "rock face" in the article? (Look carefully at the photos.) 142.167.187.130 (talk) 02:44, 11 December 2011 (UTC)
 * Only if it is part of the local lore (I've never heard it mentioned). Thanks to paredolia, every place with rocks has at least one "face". - DavidWBrooks (talk) 12:39, 11 December 2011 (UTC)

Pronunciation
The Spanish pronunciation given is wrong. My father is from Peru and he has always, consistently, pronounced it as [matʃu piktʃu]. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.107.238.239 (talk) 15:48, 8 June 2012 (UTC) Yeah, I forgot to sign that. The bot got to it first. 70.107.238.239 (talk) 15:51, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

 * You are correct. Without the "k", Picchu means something different. I will change it. Dger (talk) 15:57, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Creation Date - Correction Required
Someone review & correct the following: "The Incan people started building the "estate" around 14000BC..." 14000 BC?? Later it says 1450 (AD!). Check the following link for more accurate information: http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/274 86.47.181.194 (talk) 11:06, 23 August 2012 (UTC) Mac.
 * Thanks, that's just recent test edits which I reverted. Johnuniq (talk) 11:28, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Yale controversy
Makes me wonder - what if a university from Peru went to Connecticut, grabbed a bunch of artifacts concerning colonial America, and took them back to be put on display in Peru for several decades?

What would be the reaction of Yale University to that? Just wondering.

--Atikokan (talk) 05:25, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

I seen who ''This page was last modified on 13 July 2013 and in 25 July 2013.but in now in View history tab,i cant see that!!! is it a problem?or Wiki not show all modified date? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nelson1942 (talk • contribs) 19:06, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

The article mentioned that all of Birmingham's actions of taking the relics to Yale were legal. What makes it legal? Was it Peru's government? Institutions in Peru claimed that Birmingham and his men were stealing? On what grounds is this claim. A mention of the laws of Peru that detail the removal of relics and historical items would help the understanding of the argument between Yale and the archaeologists of Peru. Enniks (talk) 21:48, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

a problem in date
I seen who ''This page was last modified on 13 July 2013 and in 25 July 2013.but in now in View history tab,i cant see those in dates list !!! is it a problem?or Wiki not show all modified date? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nelson1942 (talk • contribs) 19:18, 1 August 2013 (UTC)

travel blog
Because so much has been written in so many places about Machu Picchu, this article has to limit "external links" to sites with unique information. That's why I have removed a travel blog added by an Anonymous IP ... it's a very good blog, well-written and researched, but it doesn't add enough important, unique information. Our readers should know that if they follow an external link from this article, it will add something new and difficult to find otherwise. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 13:24, 28 December 2013 (UTC)

Photograph in the Early encounters section
The photograph in the Early Encounters section it titled "Man sitting on ruins" and is dated 1911. The photograph depicts a mule in the background. Although I don't know the location of the photograph I think it is unlikely that the ruins pictured are of Machu Picchu as no mules were taken up to Machu Picchu in 1911.

If the picture is not of Machu Picchu I think it should be removed from the article.

Ian3060 (talk) 21:27, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

Hydropower project threat?
The whole hydropower project "threat" seems remarkably POV. It is taken as fact that this project will somehow have a negative effect on the site, but no details are given as to who is saying this. The specific "threat" is fairly vague in the text, but the closest thing I see to a threat in there is that the powerplant may be disruptive to an alternate access route and some nearby hot springs, both of which sound like tourist destinations rather than the site itself.

Although this entry looks well-cited because it had 3 citations in 2 paragraphs, but two of these are just travel sites describing the geography of the area and have nothing to do with the power plant. The only remaining site is a terse headline-only site entirely in Spanish that says the project is occurring. If this section is to remain in the article, it should 1.) be better cited and 2.) be more balanced, explaining who is saying it's a threat, why they think that and what the opposition things. As it is now, this reads like advocacy. Personally, I'm in favor of culling the whole section. For now I've marked it as neutrality disputed. 0x0077BE (talk) 19:29, 3 February 2014 (UTC)
 * OK, seems like the section hasn't had any defenders come forth so I went ahead and culled it. 0x0077BE  [talk/contrib] 22:30, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Human Sacrifice, Aliens and Mysticism section
I've removed the paragraph about L Ron Hubbard as that bit of info may fit in his biography or the religion article, but is rather irrelevant here. Vsmith (talk) 11:32, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Request for additional citiations
There are a few passages, particularly in the "History" section, which require many more citations. If anyone could cite the claims in this section, it would be appreciated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by MrFish291 (talk • contribs) 19:01, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

File:99 - Machu Picchu - Juin 2009.jpg
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:99 - Machu Picchu - Juin 2009.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on July 6, 2014. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2014-07-06. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. Thanks! — Crisco 1492 (talk) 05:46, 22 June 2014 (UTC)

Hydropower unit troubles
Hi All, just a heads up that the units in the description of the hydropower system in Threats are probably faulty. I'd fix them, but the relevant source is in Spanish and behind a paywall. The problem is that we're quoting 105 cubic metres of water, but I think we need a unit of volume per time, presumably cubic metres per second. 105 cubic metres per second seems like the right order of magnitude for a 280MW plant, but I can't see the article to check. Thanks, 118.208.175.89 (talk) 22:36, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * I had actually meant to cull that whole section months ago, but I guess I missed the second paragraph. I finished the job now.  0x0077BE  [talk/contrib] 15:41, 15 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 3 September 2014
On the section of the page entitled "In Media", there is a picture of two men to the right side of the page. One is Esteban Paveletich. You've misspelled his name, leaving off the "h" at the end. When clicking his name, it takes you to a page saying no page exists. However, if you do a search under the correct spelling of his name, with the "h" at the end, you'll see he has a Wikipedia page. Please correct.

75.185.139.187 (talk) 19:27, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

✅. He doesn't have an English wikipedia page, but there is one with that spelling on the Spanish wikipedia page, so I think you are right. 0x0077BE [talk/contrib] 19:50, 3 September 2014 (UTC)

A small problem
The 'History' section seems to contradict 'Early encounters', 'Demystifying the discovery of Machu Picchu' and 'Cultural artifacts: Dispute between Peru and Yale University'.

'History' says that 'Hiram Bingham' (re)discovered Machu Pichhu, while 'Early encounters' comments that 'Maps found by historians show references to Machu Picchu as early as 1874.' Again, while 'History' says that 'The ruins were mostly covered with vegetation except for the cleared agricultural terraces and clearings used by the farmers as vegetable gardens … Bingham was not able to get a full extent of the site … ', while 'Demystifying' says that 'Hiram had claimed that all the ruins of Machu Picchu were covered in a dense vegetation. Contrarily, the photographs depict the ruins in a clear open space. The letters and photographs suggest that Machu Picchu was not isolated in wilderness, but rather connected and populated by several indigenous families.'

A more subjective (and possibly controversial) discrepancy is observed between paragraph 12 of 'History' and 'Cultural artifacts: Dispute between Peru and Yale University'. 'History' takes a clearly Imperialist position on the tensions between the explorers and the local people, and the Yale – Peru dispute which followed. In contrast,'Cultural artifacts' has a markedly revisionist tone.

In conclusion, 'History' seems to have been written first, from the traditional viewpoint, while the following sections appear to have been added later, reflecting a more contemporary outlook.

While it is certainly necessary to give both sides of the argument, would it not be better to move all of this into 'Cultural disputes', under two subheadings, one for each side?

By the way, could somebody please find a better title for this section? Thank You. Jose Mathew C (talk) 14:29, 2 April 2015 (UTC)

Building material
Would be interesting, if anybody knows, to say what type of rock (other than "local") was used in the construction. 98.170.192.214 (talk) 05:40, 18 September 2015 (UTC)

Photos
IMHO, this article has too many redundant photos, including several similar panoramas. This is a not uncommmon issue with articles about famous places - many editors have their favorite photo(s), often ones they have taken - and as I've found in other articles as well as a disagreement here, different editors think different photos are unnecessary. In that case the default becomes to leave them all in, and the article gets hard to read, especially on mobile devices (which is why this matters).

Personally, I'd kill the middle panorama, which is mostly redundant, and the top photo with mist.

Anybody else have an opinion? - DavidWBrooks (talk) 20:25, 23 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I agree completely. I think I stripped out a whole bunch a few years back, but they seem to breed. We should only keep photos that serve to illustrate the article, not overwhelm it with pretty pictures. If people want to see lots of pretty pics, they can go to Commons. The aim of Wikipedia is to educate. Simon Burchell (talk) 21:35, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

Demystifying the discovery
The article on Machu Picchu as written does not mystify Bingham’s rediscovery of Machu Picchu. The section “Demystifying the discovery” refers to Bingham’s “glorified” discovery. This is certainly the case that Bingham, who was good at telling the story, did embellish and exaggerate in later years, especially in his book “Lost City of the Incas”. At the time of his exploration of Machu Picchu he was more scholarly and factual in his writing. It is primarily in his book “Lost City of the Incas” written many years latter that he used a more elaborate style. Hugh Thomson, who provided the introduction to the edition of the book published by Weiderfield and Nicolson in 2002, highlights the elaboration of Bingham’s style of writing. Thomson also refers to Alfred Bingham’s article.

If the facts of his exploration are presented in this article using his writing and records at the time, rather than relying on his book “Lost City of the Incas”, then there is no exaggeration to explain. Therefore there is no need to demystify: "hazardous tropical jungle", "most inaccessible path in the Andes", "isolated in wilderness".

Alfred Bingham had access to “the voluminous files of Hiram’s Yale Peruvian expedition at the Yale library and the thousands of his photographs preserved at the National Geographic Society.” I don’t have access to these, but from what I have researched I don’t totally agree with Alfred’s assertion that: “It was not hidden in the jungle but largely exposed by local farmers who had cleared the ruins to grow crops.” and “The most misleading impression given by my father’s accounts was that the ruins were all but hidden in the dense vegetation. Photographs he took on that first day but never published tell a different story. From the highest point in the ruins he took a series of pictures giving a panoramic view of the site to the east and south. It shows that a large part of the city had been cleared by the Indian families: they had removed the overgrowth from the terraces on which the buildings stood in order to obtain level land for corn and other crops. The trunks of felled trees lay where they had fallen on top of many of the buildings, but few of the ruins were hidden.”

The April 1913 volume of the National Geographic Magazine has many photographs that show the site before the major clearing was undertaken. These include Page 499 overview of the western side and the Sacred Plaza taken by H.L. Tucker in 1911, and Page 432 of the west side after 10 days of clearing in 1912. The photograph on page 433 is a repeat of the shot on page 432 but after the vegetation was removed. The terraces and building that could not be seen in the photograph of page 432 are now clearly visible.

Going back to Hiram’s description of what he saw on his first visit was cleared agricultural terraces with buildings covered in vegetation. The agricultural terraces had been cleared by a couple of farmers a few years earlier so they could grow crops, but they were unable to remove the large tree trunks. There were so few farmers that they would not want the effort or see the necessity to clear the vegetation from all the buildings. I don’t think the Quechua families “had removed the overgrowth from the terraces on which the buildings stood” but from the agricultural terraces. These terraces were built to allow level ground for growing crops and which the Incas had filled with rich soil imported from elsewhere. The terraces that had been made to provide level ground for buildings were not suitable for agriculture and hence would not have been cleared.

The final point about not initially valuing his findings at Machu Picchu is correct. He was looking for the old Inca capital of Vitcos and none of the clues fitted, so he was correct in assuming that he had not found Vitcos. He later returned his attention on Machu Picchu as he appreciated the well preserved nature of the ruins because they had been left undisturbed since the time the city was abandoned. As Bingham failed to identify the ruins at Espiritu Pampa as Vilcabamba Viejo, he erroneously theorized that Machu Picchu was Vilcabamba Viejo.

For the above reasons the section “Demystifying the discovery” is out of context, confusing and not totally factually correct and I propose that it be deleted from the Machu Picchu article. A revised version may better fit on the Hiram Bingham page. Ian3060 (talk) 06:13, 7 April 2016 (UTC)

Opening paragraph
40% of the opening paragraph is about the pronunciation and etymology of Machu Picchu. Reading it is like wading through treacle. Consider moving the etymology into a footnote per WP:LEADCLUTTER. Firebrace (talk) 20:21, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

 * Not just a footnote, but trimming it and moving the tymology elsewhere would be a good idea.- DavidWBrooks (talk) 22:24, 24 July 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2017
im hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking youim hacking you — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.67.88.125 (talk) 17:33, 5 May 2017 (UTC)

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Daily Life of Machu Picchu
Is it appropriate to add the daily life of the people who lived there? Is it any different than normal life in the Inca Empire? How did they live? It was mentioned that it was an estate of Pachacuti, so did they all work for Pachacuti? What did they grow and eat? How many people even lived there? These things may also be important for the subject of Machu Picchu. Enniks (talk) 22:02, 22 September 2017 (UTC)

May 2017
Additions of subsections Daily Life of Machu Picchu as Royal Estate and Agriculture to Machu Picchu History Section and reorganization and update of information within the History Section

Enniks and Sesxb7 are adding in new sub sections under the History section. We are editing the first paragraph to remove dead links to sources. We are adding in two subsections with information about the Daily Life of Machu Picchu as a Royal Estate and Agriculture. We are moving the rest of the information that was after the first paragraph of History and before the First Expedition subsection into it's own section called Encounters. Enniks (talk) 16:13, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Addition of a source for an internet poll in the Introduction section of Machu Picchu
The internet poll of the New Seven Wonders of the World did not have a source so I found one and inserted it.Enniks (talk) 16:33, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Improvement of grammar and clarity of the Daily Life as a Royal Estate section
Improved sentence structure and grammar of the content. Also added more links for users. Also added a picture of a llama at the ruins of Machu Picchu. Enniks (talk) 16:38, 8 November 2017 (UTC)

Improvement of agriculture section
Added a picture of the terraces to go along with the paragraph about terrace farming. Also linked several other articles including Incan agriculture, irrigation in Peru, and Incan engineers for the paragraph on Kenneth Wright. Sesxb7 (talk) 17:27, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

Improvement of paragraph structure in agriculture section
Fixed the sentence structure of the paragraphs in the agriculture section because they were confusing. Sesxb7 (talk) 17:28, 10 November 2017 (UTC)

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amaranth
hi, amaranth or quinoa is south american and has eatable seeds. could it be part off the inca diet?? spinach is the same family. then the leaves AND the seeds might be eaten. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amaranth https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cleome_serrulata 85.149.83.125 (talk) 23:49, 14 January 2018 (UTC)

meaning of pikchu
The Quechua dictionary cited says ''pikchu. s. Pirámide. Sólido puntiagudo de varias caras. || Cono. Ch'utu.'' I don't understand much Spanish, but the claimed translation "peak; mountain or prominence with a broad base that ends in sharp peaks" is apparently completely made up or at best inaccurate.--Espoo (talk) 17:46, 15 May 2018 (UTC)

machu pichu — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.204.230.204 (talk) 13:59, 24 November 2018 (UTC)

Machu Picchu in Hiram Bingham's era, full 1913 text and photos
See https://www.nationalgeographic.com/magazine/1913/04/machu-picchu-peru-inca-hiram-bingham-discovery/?cmpid=org=ngp::mc=crm-email::src=ngp::cmp=editorial::add=Compass_20191116&rid=D3C472AF93F8A8BCEE95284AEEFA77AA

View slideshow on that web page AND the full 1913 article.

Machu Picchu, situated along the eastern side of the Andes, was rediscovered in 1911 and a National Geographic Society sponsored expedition returned the following year. In this edition we have the original story written by the expedition leader, Hiram Bingham, from the April 1913 issue.

''THE LOST CITY OF THE INCAS: MACHU PICCHU This city, probably built by the Incas 2,000 years ago, was uncovered and excavated by Prof. Hiram Bingham, under the auspices of the National Geographic Society and Yale University. Its beauty of situation and the mystery of its past make it one of the most interesting groups of ancient buildings in the world.'' Peter K Burian (talk) 16:54, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

Pronunciation
I have removed a couple of redundant references to the two English pronunciations. Footnotes are a mild obstacle to easy reading; we don't need to link multiple dictionaries for the same factoid. As it is, having four different pronunciations, with (still) eight footnoted references, makes the intro to this article hard to read. As WP:Pronunciation says, "Pronunciation should be indicated sparingly, as parenthetical information disturbs the normal flow of the text and introduces clutter" - DavidWBrooks (talk) 20:22, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Significant Temperature Discrepancies
The climate chart placed in section 4.8, which references source 65, displays average temperatures which are absurdly inaccurate as compared to datasets from SENAMHI (The Peruvian meteorological and hydrological national agency or bureau  ) automated weather station located mostly south of the citadel proper, and west of the Belmond Sanctuary Lodge, and at an elevation of 2,399 meters ASL. January temperature ranges at this station were between about 26 and 11 degrees centigrade for the years 2019 and 2020, with an average low of about 12 degrees Celsius. I was only able to find tabulated data sets with hourly temperature readings.

Below is the weather station listing from SENAMHI, as well as a link if anyone is interested.

MACHUPICCHU (distrito) Provincia : URUBAMBA Departamento : CUSCO Estación : MACHUPICCHU Altitud : 2399 m.s.n.m. Latitud : -13.16655 Longitud : -72.54585

Station code: 472897F0

https://www.senamhi.gob.pe/servicios/?p=estaciones — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.128.157.98 (talk) 23:47, 9 October 2020 (UTC)

Read it properly
So, what we know Machu Picchu was unknown before 1911. It was still being built into the 1970's. Everything else in conjecture. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Blade Breaksdown (talk • contribs) 16:14, 22 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Please have a read of our requirement for reliable sourcing. Do you have any for your claims? HiLo48 (talk) 00:27, 13 November 2021 (UTC)

Reference in Mississippi Grind
Perhaps consider (description of following) for inclusion in Motion Pictures?

''Machu Picchu… It's kinda the end of my rainbow, you know… It's mysterious and exotic, a place you just get lost. '' -Curtis Vaughn (Ryan Reynolds), in Mississippi Grind. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Lmstearn (talk • contribs) 08:09, 16 December 2021 (UTC) --Lmstearn (talk) 08:13, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Huayna Picchu
In light of this article from NPR, do we change the name to Huayna Picchu? Hires an editor (talk) 18:55, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

 * No, since Machu Picchu remains the accepted name. If that changes over time, the article can change. It's worth mentioning somewhere in the article. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 19:29, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Name change?
Should this article be renamed in light of recent research? https://www.npr.org/2022/03/27/1089088061/machu-picchu-huayna-wrong-name Yinwang888 (talk) 03:15, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

 * WP:COMMONAME. (CC) Tb hotch ™ 03:22, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Note that the claim has been mentioned in the story, with a reference. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 11:51, 1 April 2022 (UTC)

Geology
The area lies at the intersection of two faults and the city itself is built on a graben. The fractures provided copious amounts of granitic rock easy to work. This should be incorporated in the text; see https://www.gondwanatalks.com/l/machu-picchu-en/ Hedley Finger Hfinger 22:01, 25 October 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Architectural History
— Assignment last updated by Joshrieck (talk) 20:15, 28 November 2022 (UTC)

Urdu
Machu picchu 103.232.131.19 (talk) 15:16, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Try this link Valenciano (talk) 15:23, 5 December 2022 (UTC)

Modified section about human sacrifices and mysticism
I have modified this section as the evidence about Incan human sacrifice is pretty minimal, anyway if I am wrong feel free to change it. 5.168.150.210 (talk) 23:39, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

 * The information was properly sourced, I have restored it. Captainllama (talk) 23:44, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Machu Picchu


text: User talk:80.58.38.42

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:80.58.38.42


text:
Talk:Menin Gate

[Untitled]
User:Maveric149 says "do not EVER start an article with a quote." Perhaps readers will see that the quote at the bottom of the current entry belongs at the top, as an epigraph. If epigraphs were overdone, they'd be tiresome I think. But Maverick149 defaces them whenever he finds them. What do you think of that? Wetman 20:56, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

So long as the quote at the top function isn't overdone, I have no problems with it. Often a quote can project a feeling which is usefull to the article, why else are so many books started with a quote? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by TagarSpinebreak (talk • contribs).

Unveiled?
"the Menin Gate Memorial was unveiled on 24 July 1927."

This is a very large structure. It could have been covered and then unveiled but that seems unlikely. I wonder if there is a detailed record. Wanderer57 (talk) 16:41, 11 November 2011 (UTC)
 * There is indeed a detailed record of the unveiling ceremony - some books cover this (I have one of them and hope to work more on this article at some point) - and there are contemporary newspaper reports. To answer your question, the bit that was veiled for the ceremony was the dedicatory inscription at the top of the archway (the side facing outwards from the town, the moat side). This is the inscription that reads "To the armies of the British Empire who stood here from 1914 to 1918 and to those of their dead who have no known grave". For the unveiling ceremony, this inscription was covered with the flags of France, Britain and Belgium, with some mechanism rigged up to allow Field Marshal Plumer to press a button at the right moment to unveil the inscription. As I said, I have a book that goes into some detail on this and other points, which I will use to expand this article at some point, but if you have other questions, please do ask. Carcharoth (talk) 01:28, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Thank you so much. Can you tell me if the inscription is in multiple languages and, if so, which they are.  Wanderer57 (talk) 01:50, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

 * The main inscription is only in English, but appears twice, once on either side. Once below the outwards-facing lion and once below the shroud-draped sarcophagus that faces the town. The other inscriptions on the external walls are the "Pro Patria" and "Pro Rege" bits. Inside (on the internal archway surfaces) are more Latin and English inscriptions (given in the article). There are also bits in French and Dutch that was placed there in 1926 (the French text is in the article, the Dutch text isn't yet but is the same - the 'offered to the citizens of Ypres' bit), and a bit in English stating that the monument is maintained by the CWGC (and that they built it). That's about it, though there is a large amount of additional text in the form of the 55,000+ names inscribed on the panels. Carcharoth (talk) 02:46, 22 December 2011 (UTC)

Applause after Playing of The Last Post
I do not know whether the matter of applause after the playing of The Last Post should be covered in the article. A paragraph mentioning the matter was just edited out, though for another reason.

For general information, this source: http://www.ww1battlefields.co.uk/flanders/ypres.html says that applause at the end of the ceremony has become common. Wanderer57 (talk) 01:46, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Doesn't really seem important enough to merit a mention to me. - Kzirkel (talk) 17:18, 17 August 2016 (UTC)

'Burials' figures (Infobox)
It is surely terminologically inexact to call the statistics of names listed by the memorial 'burials' as the monument is not a cemetery and commemorates casualties who had 'no known grave' (a circumstance that came about either because their original battlefield graves were lost, their identifiable bodies were not found, or they disappeared in the fighting and were not seen alive or dead again). Surely the correct term is 'commemorations'?Cloptonson (talk) 20:03, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * The problem is with the template. Although it is possible to display both total number buried and total number commemorated (unburied) with the template, the breakdown by nation etc appears to be only available for burials. So the options are get the template changed to accommodate breakdowns of totals for commemorations, omit the national breakdown from the infobox or just put up with the incorrect terminology. This is a common problem with headings in templates, they are often not quite the right term for the specific circumstances, close but ... Kerry (talk) 21:54, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * 'Commemorated by Nation' would be far better than 'Burial by Nation' but we are left to the mercy of the template. I do see value in leaving the figures by country but would be entirely supportive of a that type of change to the template. However, it really is a template discussion rather than a discussion for this article.--Labattblueboy (talk) 00:52, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Names on the Gate
I’ve read the article as it’s been highlighted on the historical events on this day feed. Zooming in on the photograph of names surprised me. My maternal grandmothers half-brother is shown clearly. Hammond CR (Charles Robert) Royal West Kent Regiment. He died on Hill 60 in 1915. It’s unlikely I’ll get to see the Gate as I now live in Australia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alanashby (talk • contribs) 00:20, 24 July 2019 (UTC)

It's not clear from the article, or the caption to the image, why the name of Sgt O'Connor has been highlighted by this page. There certainly should be an image to illustrate the list of names on the gate, but there should be a rationale as to why this person has been picked out. Was a picture of the wall without a pointing finger not available? Is Sgt O'Connor especially important (outside the fact he sadly died in battle) to the history of the Menin Gate? One person should not be highlighted above the many thousands of others. Thanks. Ben (Major Bloodnok) (talk) 22:01, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't think Sgt O'Connor is particularly important, but if you are going to have a photo of the list of names, then obviously some specific names are going to be seen in it. Looking on Commons, we actually don't have a lot of photos to pick from (most are of the Gate as a piece of architecture), but there are a couple of photos of names without Sgt O'Connor and the finger. But personally I quite like the photo and caption, because Menin Gate is a memorial for many ordinary soldiers. I've not been to Menin Gate personally but to many other similar commemorative places and this is exactly what goes on at them -- ordinary people go there looking for a particular name (important to them) on the wall and, when they find it, they get excited and take a "pointing finger" photo just like this one. To my mind, the photo captures an ordinary person (the finger) commemorating *their* ordinary solider and that this is the purpose of Menin Gate and presumably what takes place there every day. I don't think a photo of the name of a famous general or medal-winner would convey the same sense of personal commemoration. I don't see this as "highlighting" Sgt O'Connor per se, but I guess the caption could be changed to make this more explicit e.g. "Visitors seek out the names of family members for personal commemoration" or something like that. Kerry (talk) 23:28, 31 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I agree with Bloodnok on this one. File:Menenpoortnamen.jpg or File:Names from the Menin Gate (Panel 46).JPG or File:Ypres,_Menenpoort_J5.jpg would each be more suitable. I don't like the pointing finger, I think it is a distraction.--Labattblueboy (talk) 00:48, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks both for the prompt replies. Kerry, I can see your point, but the finger-pointing image is distracting. Also unless you have a reliable source which indicates that people do actually seek out family members, we can't mention that on the page even as part of a caption (I know people do this, but it needs to be supported). I think File:Menenpoortnamen.jpg  would be preferable as it shows poppies and crosses left by visitors, which illustrates the point you are trying to make but does it in a more pleasing way. I was at the Menin Gate earlier in the week as part of a school trip, and it would be better to indicate the scale of the list of names rather than pick out a single victim of war. Ben (Major Bloodnok) (talk) 09:52, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Under the Memorial section is a line: "The patient lion on the top is the lion of Britain but also the lion of Flanders" Should that not be a "patent lion" as in heraldry that has a specific meaning about posture I believe, whereas "patient" does not make a lot of sense. I think someone's auto correct went to work!..

I have tried to site my source for this question and cannot readily find more than the sentence used in the latter way rather than the former.

Sir Real One (talk) 20:31, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

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Mausoleum?
Isn't it really a cenotaph? If there are no bodies entombed there, or even places for entombment, it can hardly be properly called a mausoleum. I therefore think the link to the Mausoleum article is misleading, but a link to Cenotaph might be useful. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.27.111.134 (talk) 21:21, 15 January 2018 (UTC)

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text:
Talk:George Brett

Rededicated portion of I-70?
I'm surprised that nobody mentioned the fact that part of I-70 through Kansas City was renamed in Brett's honor. If I could remember the exact phrasing, I'd have added it myself. :) Also might be worth mentioning that St. Louis was SO sure they were going to take the 1985 World Series (The "I-70 Series" coincedentally) that pre-printed World Champions T-shirts were made, and had to be pulled off shelves when the Royals won! --JohnDBuell | Talk 19:26, 23 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Pre-printed shirts like that are made for every team prior to a World Series. The manufacturers are willing to take the risk so they can have the items readily available when and if the team in question actually wins the Series. Items like this, 1983 White Sox World Series pins, 1969 Cubs World Series pennants, 1986 Red Sox World Champions t-shirts and the like are often available as collector's items on eBay. 74.245.91.25 17:02, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Sections
This page is kinda hard to read, it might need to be divided up someday. Sigma995 21:32, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree. The text should be organized into sections with headings and subheadings.  The grammar is also sloppy, so a good proofreading is in order.  I'm adding a cleanup tag. SmartGuy 17:08, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Matthew Modine relationship
I was informed on my talk page that Brett and Modine are not cousins, and it turns out the only place where it's mentioned is on the IMDB biography of Modine, so seeing as it's only from one source, I'll take that out now.  howch e  ng   {chat} 06:46, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

Brett's Hemorrhoid History
What happened in the 1980 series is misstated all over the net. The statement that the day after pulling himself out of Game 2 with hemorrhoid pain, "Brett had to have surgery to remove hemorrhoids" isn't, and couldn't be, correct, given that he returned in Game 3 the day after (and homered!). He had a minor procedure done on the off-day, presumably to relieve the pain. Then in the spring of 1981 he had his hemorrhoids removed (a "hemorrhoidectomy"), a thoroughly disabling procedure, and missed over two weeks of Spring training. When I get my refs straight, I'll fix it. Brett's reality is heroic enough without this...JoshFisher

20-20-20
I just composed a page on the 20-20-20 Club, of which Brett is the last member, so far, but I have only identified 5 players (Frank Schulte, Jim Bottomley, Jeff Heath, and Willie Mays). Am I missing someone?TeganX7 04:04, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Decades
An editor just added a discussion into this article of the fact that is not technically accurate to state that Brett won batting titles in three different decades (1976, 1980, and 1990), as his 1990 title was actually won in the 1980s. While this is technically correct, I feel it is basically irrelevant to put such a discussion in a baseball article. I made the mistake of calling it "nitpicking", when I should have made the following point instead.

Baseball has always defined its "decades" as beginning in the year beginning in zero and ending in nine (e.g., the 1980s were from 1980 to 1989). I won't argue the merits of this definition (I'm one of those who believe the new century began in 2001), but explaining that technicality in this article just seems to be going off on a tangent and is irrelevant to the article.

In truth, even if Brett had won his batting titles in 1977, '81, and '91, having actually gained titles in three different (and undisputed) decades, the REAL technicality is simply the count of decades as the measure. Ted Williams won his first and last batting titles 17 seasons apart (1941 to 1958), whereas Brett's first and last titles were only 14 years apart. We shouldn't be discussing the technicality of when a decade begins or ends, but rather the fact that Williams having won titles near the beginning of one decade and near the end of another simply masked the fact that his achievement was greater than Brett's. --  Couillaud (talk) 16:35, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

George Brett (military)
Is there some relationship between these two George Howard Bretts? Surely they are either related, or the baseball player was named for the general; its seems unlikely that it could be a pure coincidence. --Xyzzyva (talk) 05:23, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Howard is a rather common middle name, isn't it? Kingturtle (talk) 11:57, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

Internet meme?
Should Brett's youtube video of him telling his "bathroom story" get a mention on the page. It's closing in on half a million views on youtube. --WadeGwynn 25 Sep 2009

Doubt it unless you can find a source, and even then it's borderline. However, I have seen the video, and it's fucking hilarious. Have you seen the auto-tune one? That one is even funnier. Korben Dallas25 (talk) 02:25, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

 * 14 years later I was able to find a Deadspin article and an article in The Kansas City Star.  Istandwiththesilent  18:33, 27 January 2023 (UTC)

Most hits by a third baseman?
Someone anonymously edited this to say he had the second most hits by a third baseman. Although this is a tricky question (what does it mean? Was he on the lineup at third for his first hit in a game, but then was at first for the next two?), every source I can find lists Brett as the holder of that record. I'm going to revert that edit. If he is second, could whoever list the source, at least here? JoshFisher

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. Favonian (talk) 19:27, 13 October 2011 (UTC)

– relisting as multimove. ErikHaugen (talk | contribs) 17:27, 6 October 2011 (UTC) – Primary topic. Page views: 129,980, 4,928. Partial title matches: 2,441, [http://stats.grok.se/en/2010/George_Platt_Brett,_Sr. 2,267], 2,145. Relisted, also see discussion GB fan 13:32, 25 September 2011 (UTC) Marcus   Qwertyus   04:22, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
 * George Brett (baseball) → George Brett
 * George Brett → George Brett (disambiguation)
 * Support - The baseball player seems to be far and away the primary target of George Brett. The others can be addressed through a dab page and a hatnote. Rlendog (talk) 20:51, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Comment - I'm uncomfortable with using page views to establish primary topic. There are cases where I know that method doesn't work, so I don't like seeing it as the primary method employed. I'm not opposing this suggested move, just the methodology. -GTBacchus(talk) 19:25, 24 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Hopefully the commenters have a good knowledge of the characters involved in the request and can apply a little bit of common sense to it. If anything, it inflates the page views of the minority topics with search engine crawlers counting as page views. Marcus   Qwertyus   04:32, 25 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I guess I'd like to see that "common sense" unpacked a little bit for the benefit of move closers, such as myself, who might not share the knowledge or information that's being brought to bear. -GTBacchus(talk) 04:46, 25 September 2011 (UTC) See Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Mendoza line
Where did they get the notion that George popularized the term "Mendoza line"? I don't buy it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.143.44.196 (talk) 13:14, 11 August 2014 (UTC)

Mendoza line 2
I also don't buy the story that George popularized the term "Mendoza line" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.143.45.115 (talk) 07:15, 26 January 2015 (UTC)

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title: Talk:George Brett


text:
Provisional Central Committee, Communist Party of India (Marxist–Leninist)

The Provisional Central Committee, Communist Party of India (Marxist–Leninist) was a communist political party in India. The general secretary of the party was Santosh Rana. The party is often referred to as CPI(ML) [Santosh Rana Group] or likewise. The PCC, CPI(ML) evolved from the group loyal to Satyanarayan Singh from the original Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist). Singh rebelled against the party leader Charu Majumdar in 1971, provoking a split. In April 1973, Singh's party was reorganised.

In March 2024, the party merged with CPI(ML) Revolutionary Initiative and CPI(ML) Praja Pandha to create a new party CPI(ML) Mass Line.

History
Santosh Rana had broken with Charu Majumdar in 1971, and later joined Singh's group. In 1974 the Chandrapulla Reddy-led Andhra Pradesh Committee of Communist Revolutionaries merged with Singh's CPI(ML).

When the Bihar movement was launched by Jayaprakash Narayan in 1974, Singh's CPI(ML) decided to lend support to it. Narayan had been in contact with Singh since 1968, attempting to persuade him to support non-violent agrarian reform struggles.

On 4 July 1975 the Indian government banned 27 organisations, Singh's CPI(ML) was one of them. Under the Emergency Singh's CPI(ML) formulated a three-tier united front line, calling for the formation of a 'revolutionary united front' (consisting of communist revolutionaries, working towards a unified revolutionary communist party), a 'proletarian united front' based on working class struggles (and which could include the Communist Party of India (Marxist) and the Socialist Unity Centre of India (Communist)) and a 'democratic front' which would unite forces working for restoration of democratic rights. Within the framework of the 'democratic front' work, party cadres began participating in joint protests with non-left opposition groups at the time.

After the defeat of Indira Gandhi in the 1977 Lok Sabha elections, the situation for the party was relaxed somewhat. Singh asserted that although the class character of the new Janata Party government was the same as the Gandhi government, he appreciated differences like improvement of civil liberties and weakening of Soviet influence. On 9 April 1977 S.N. Singh signed an appeal along with Khokan Majumder (Unity Committee, CPI(ML)), Suniti Kumar Ghosh (COC, CPI(ML)) and Apurba Roy (UCCRI(ML)), calling for the unconditional release of 12 000 revolutionary prisoners. During the anti-Emergency struggle, the Janata Party had promised to release political prisoners. Once in power however, they had back-tracked on that promise. Singh was involved in negotiations to secure the release of prisoners.

Singh's CPI(ML) was the first major ML-factions that opened up for participating in elections, which became a controversial issue. On 10 April 1977 Singh declared the willingness to contest elections at a press conference. The Calcutta District committee denounced the move. Other ML-factions saw as the new line as treachery. In 1971 Santosh Rana was elected to the West Bengal state assembly from the Gopiballavpur constituency (one of the areas were CPI(ML) had started armed struggle following the model of the Naxalbari uprising). Rana got 13401 votes (25,67%), which was enough to defeat the CPI(M), Indian National Congress and Janata Party candidates. Singh's CPI(ML) were also able to register the party name Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist) with the Election Commission of India, but the registration was later lost.

Post-1984 period
Around 1980 Singh's group appeared as the strongest ML-faction, but with the exit of Chandrapulla Reddy and other splits the party shrunk. In 1984 a severe split occurred, with the loyalists of Singh opposed to the group of Santosh Rana and Vaskar Nandy. The Singh faction levelled the following accusation: "In our organisation also, Nandy’s close associates established contacts with a foreign voluntary agency and a native voluntary agency financed by Western monopoly capital, keeping it secret from the POC and the general secretary of the party, S N Singh. They established contact with Rural Aid Consortium of Tagore Society which is financed by West European countries and the USA and with one Danish Organisation on the Plea of providing relief to the people of Gobiballabpur in West Bengal and some areas in Bihar. Lakhs of rupees were received for digging tanks, constructing school building opening a sewing training center and distributing chickens and cattle to the needy. It also came to our notice that money was being received by some of our leaders from the Lutheran Church. When it came to light to the PCC members, an intense ideological struggle burst forth in the party on this issue." (Our differences with Nandy-Rana group, PCC-CPI(ML), p. 29)

The group of Rana came to win a majority in the leadership (the provisional central committee) and Singh's followers formed a new committee (and de facto a new party). Singh died shortly afterwards.

Rana's group differentiates themselves from other ML-factions through their emphasis on antifascism. Rana considers the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) as a fascist danger for India. PCC, CPI(ML) gives the advice to their followers to vote for parties like CPI(M) or even the Indian National Congress in constituencies were no revolutionary communist candidate is available.

Ahead of the 2004 Lok Sabha elections the party participated in the united front of revolutionary communists initiated by Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist) Red Flag and Communist Party of India (Marxist-Leninist).

In the Bodo-dominated areas in Assam, the party works through a mass organization called United Reservation Movement Council of Assam. PCC, CPI(ML) and URMCA are opponents of the Bodo nationalist movements. In the Lok Sabha elections in 2004 the URMCA candidate in Kokrajhar got 205 491 votes (21,25%). In the 1999 election the URMCA candidate had gotten 246 942 votes (27,75%) in the same constituency.

PCC, CPI(ML) publishes For a New Democracy as its central organ. The editor-in-chief is Vaskar Nandy.


text:
Shorncliffe railway line

The Shorncliffe railway line is an 11 km suburban railway line situated north of Brisbane, the state capital of Queensland, Australia. It is part of the Queensland Rail Citytrain network.

History
The Sandgate Railway, opened in 1882, was the first truly suburban railway in Brisbane, built to provide convenient access to the seaside for the city's residents. The terminus was originally named Sandgate and was renamed Shorncliffe in 1938. The current Sandgate station was originally named Sandgate Central. The line allowed Brisbane residents to travel to Moreton Bay's shoreline at Shorncliffe.

Duplication was completed by December 1901.

Trains to Sandgate originally travelled via what is now the Exhibition line prior to the opening of the tunnel between Central and Brunswick Street in 1890. The Shorncliffe line is going to be used as a pilot test for the implementation of ETCS, (European Train Control System), prior to its introduction with Cross River Rail.

Line guide and services
Most services to and/from Shorncliffe continue onto the Cleveland line. The typical travel time between Shorncliffe and Brisbane City is approximately 33 minutes (to Central).

Passengers for/from the Redcliffe Peninsula, Caboolture, Nambour and Gympie North lines change at Northgate, Airport and Doomben lines at Eagle Junction, Ferny Grove line at Bowen Hills, and all other lines at Central.

title: Shorncliffe railway line


text:
Ball mill

A ball mill is a type of grinder filled with grinding balls, used to grind or blend materials for use in mineral dressing processes, paints, pyrotechnics, ceramics, and selective laser sintering. It works on the principle of impact and  attrition: size reduction is done by impact as the balls drop from near the top of the shell.

A ball mill consists of a hollow cylindrical shell rotating about its axis. The axis of the shell may be either horizontal or at a small angle to the horizontal. It is partially filled with balls. The grinding media are the balls, which may be made of steel (chrome steel), stainless steel, ceramic, or rubber. The inner surface of the cylindrical shell is usually lined with an abrasion-resistant material such as manganese steel or rubber lining. Less wear takes place in rubber lined mills. The length of the mill is approximately equal to its diameter.

The general idea behind the ball mill is an ancient one, but it was not until the industrial revolution and the invention of steam power that an effective ball milling machine could be built. It is reported to have been used for grinding flint for pottery in 1870.

Working
In case of continuously operated ball mill, the material to be ground is fed from the left through a 60° cone and the product is discharged through a 30° cone to the right. As the shell rotates, the balls are lifted up on the rising side of the shell and then they cascade down (or drop down on to the feed), from near the top of the shell. In doing so, the solid particles in between the balls and ground are reduced in size by impact.

Applications
Ball mills are used for grinding materials such as mining ores, coal, pigments, and feldspar for pottery. Grinding can be carried out wet or dry, but the former is performed at low speed. Ball mills are used often in scientific work to reduce the particle size, eliminate agglomeration, change the shape of particles, provide for mechanical alloying, mixing, producing powders and changing materials properties. An open source ball mill has been designed that can be fabricated with a 3D printer for a few hundred dollars. It is able to be operated both on grid for lab work and off grid with solar photovoltaics and a battery for field work. Blending of explosives is an example of an application for rubber balls. For systems with multiple components, ball milling has been shown to be effective in increasing solid-state chemical reactivity. Additionally, ball milling has been shown effective for production of amorphous materials. It may also be useful to separate gases such as hydrogen and store them in powder form.

Description
A ball mill, a type of grinder, is a cylindrical device used in grinding (or mixing) materials like ores, chemicals, ceramic raw materials and paints. Ball mills rotate around a horizontal axis, partially filled with the material to be ground plus the grinding medium. Different materials are used as media, including ceramic balls, flint pebbles, and stainless steel balls. An internal cascading effect reduces the material to a fine powder. Industrial ball mills can operate continuously, fed at one end and discharged at the other end. Large to medium-sized ball mills are mechanically rotated on their axis, but small ones normally consist of a cylindrical capped container that sits on two drive shafts (pulleys and belts are used to transmit rotary motion). A rock tumbler functions on the same principle. Ball mills are also used in pyrotechnics and the manufacture of black powder, but cannot be used in the preparation of some pyrotechnic mixtures such as flash powder because of their sensitivity to impact. High-quality ball mills are potentially expensive and can grind mixture particles to as small as 5 nm, enormously increasing surface area and reaction rates.

The grinding works on the principle of critical speed. Critical speed can be understood as that speed after which the steel balls that are responsible for the grinding of particles start rotating along the direction of the cylindrical device, thus causing no further grinding.

Ball mills are used extensively in the mechanical alloying process, in which they are used for grinding and for cold welding, producing alloys from powders.

The ball mill is a key piece of equipment for grinding crushed materials, and it is widely used in production lines for powders such as cement, silicates, refractory material, fertilizer, glass ceramics, etc., as well as for ore dressing of ferrous and non-ferrous metals. The ball mill can grind ores and other materials, wet or dry. There are two kinds of ball mills according to their ways of discharging material: grate type, and overfall type. Many types of grinding media are suitable for use in a ball mill, each material having its own specific properties and advantages. Key properties of grinding media are size, density, hardness, and composition.
 * Size: The smaller the media particles, the smaller the particle size of the final product. The grinding media particles should be substantially larger than the largest pieces of material to be ground.
 * Density: The media should be denser than the material being ground. It becomes a problem if the grinding media floats on top of the material to be ground.
 * Hardness: The grinding media needs to be durable enough to grind the material, but, where possible, not so tough that it also wears down the tumbler.
 * Composition: Various grinding applications have special requirements. Some of these requirements are based on some of the grinding media being in the finished product, while others are based on how the media will react with the material being ground.
 * Where the color of the finished product is important, the color and material of the grinding media must be considered.
 * Where low contamination is important, the grinding media may be selected for ease of separation from the finished product (e.g., steel dust produced from stainless steel media can be magnetically separated from non-ferrous products). An alternative to separation is to use media of the same material as the product being ground.
 * Flammable products have a tendency to become explosive in powder form. Steel media may spark, becoming an ignition source for these products. Either wet-grinding, or non-sparking media such as ceramic or lead must be selected.
 * Some media, such as iron, may react with corrosive materials. For this reason, stainless steel, ceramic, and flint grinding media may each be used when corrosive substances are present during grinding.

The grinding chamber can also be filled with an inert shield gas that does not react with the material being ground, to prevent oxidation or explosive reactions that could occur with ambient air inside the mill.

Advantages of the ball mill
Ball milling boasts several advantages over other systems: the cost of installation and grinding medium is low; the capacity and fineness can be adjusted by adjusting the diameter of the ball; it is suitable for both batch and continuous operation; it is suitable for open and closed-circuit grinding; it is applicable for materials of all degrees of hardness.

Varieties
Aside from common ball mills, there is a second type of ball mill called a planetary ball mill. Planetary ball mills are smaller than common ball mills and mainly used in laboratories for grinding sample material down to very small sizes. A planetary ball mill consists of at least one grinding jar which is arranged eccentrically on a so-called sun wheel. The direction of movement of the sun wheel is opposite to that of the grinding jars (ratio: 1:−2 or 1:−1). The grinding balls in the grinding jars are subjected to superimposed rotational movements, the so-called Coriolis forces. The difference in speeds between the balls and grinding jars produces an interaction between frictional and impact forces, which releases high dynamic energies. The interplay between these forces produces the high and very effective degree of size reduction of the planetary ball mill.

title: Ball mill


text:
Stars and Stripes Vol. 1

Stars and Stripes Vol. 1 is the 28th studio album by American rock band the Beach Boys, released on August 19, 1996, by River North Records. Produced by Joe Thomas and Brian Wilson, Stars and Stripes is a collaborative album between the Beach Boys and various country acts.

The idea for the album was conceived by Thomas, who was then the owner of River North Records. According to Wilson's wife Melinda, during the album's recording, "They [the Beach Boys] treated [Brian] like an invalid, all the time saying, 'Do this, don't do that, are you okay?'"

In music critic Stephen Thomas Erlewine's description, the release was "an unmitigated disaster and an outright embarrassment for all involved". The album's failure prevented Brian from securing a record contract, leaving his highly anticipated recording collaborations with Andy Paley in limbo. A planned second volume never materialized, and Stars and Stripes became the last studio album to feature Carl Wilson, who died in 1998.

Personnel
Credits from album liner notes.

The Beach Boys
 * Al Jardine – harmony and backing vocals
 * Bruce Johnston – harmony and backing vocals
 * Mike Love – harmony and backing vocals, additional vocals on “Long Tall Texan,” executive producer
 * Brian Wilson – harmony and backing vocals, producer
 * Carl Wilson – harmony and backing vocals except “Long Tall Texan”

Special guests
 * Lorrie Morgan – lead vocals on “Don’t Worry Baby”
 * James House – lead vocals on “Little Deuce Coupe”
 * Junior Brown – lead vocals and slide "guit–steel" on "409"
 * Doug Supernaw – lead vocals on “Long Tall Texan”
 * Mark Miller of Sawyer Brown – lead vocals on “I Get Around”
 * Toby Keith – lead vocals on “Be True To Your School”
 * Ricky Van Shelton – lead vocals on “Fun, Fun, Fun”
 * T. Graham Brown – lead vocals on “Help Me, Rhonda”
 * Willie Nelson – lead vocals on “The Warmth of the Sun”
 * Collin Raye – lead vocals on “Sloop John B”
 * Kathy Troccoli – lead vocals on “I Can Hear Music”
 * Timothy B. Schmit – lead and additional backing vocals on “Caroline, No”

Additional musicians • Eddie Bayers – drums; percussion on “The Warmth of the Sun”

• Jackie Bertoni – percussion on “Don’t Worry Baby” and “Caroline, No”

• Richie Cannata – saxophone on “I Get Around” and “I Can Hear Music,” handclaps on “I Get Around”

• Steve Eisen – flute on “Caroline, No”

• Larry Franklin – fiddle on “Long Tall Texan”, “The Warmth of the Sun,” and “Sloop John B.”

• Sonny Garrish – pedal steel guitar on “Sloop John B.”

• Henry Gross – additional backing vocals on “I Can Hear Music”

• Drew Jardine – finger snaps on “I Can Hear Music”

• Matt Jardine – harmony and backing vocals, handclaps on “I Get Around”, second verse lead vocals on “Sloop John B.”

• Robbie Jardine – finger snaps on “I Can Hear Music”

• Greg Leisz – electric guitar, acoustic guitar, pedal steel guitar on “Don’t Worry Baby” and “Caroline, No”

• Steve Nathan – piano, B-3 on “I Get Around” and “Help Me Rhonda”, keyboards on “Sloop John B”

• Mickey Raphael – harmonica on “The Warmth of the Sun”

• Michael Rhodes – bass

• Brent Rowan – acoustic guitar, electric guitar, Dobro on “Long Tall Texan”

• Bill Ruppert – electric guitar on “I Can Hear Music”

• Joe Thomas – piano, keyboards, percussion on “Sloop John B.” and “I Can Hear Music”, handclaps on “I Get Around”, producer

• Jimmy Webb – string arrangements on “Caroline, No”

• Nashville String Machine – orchestra on “Caroline, No”

Charts

 * Album

 * Singles

title: Stars and Stripes Vol. 1


text: Talk:Neptunalia

title: Talk:Neptunalia


text:
Toombul railway station

Toombul railway station is located on the North Coast line in Queensland, Australia. It is one of two stations serving the Brisbane suburb of Nundah, the other being Nundah station. On 29 November 1999, two extra platforms opened as part of the quadruplication of the line from Bowens Hills to Northgate.

Services
Toombul station is served daily by all stops City network services from Shorncliffe to Central, many continuing to Park Road, Cannon Hill, Manly and Cleveland Also see Inner City timetable

Transport links
Toombul station is served by Transport for Brisbane buses calling at the nearby Toombul bus interchange.

title: Toombul railway station


text:
Musou

Musou or Musō may refer to:

 * The Japanese name for the Koei Tecmo Warriors franchise
 * Musou gauge, used in the Samurai Warriors series of video games
 * Musou mode, used in the Dynasty Warriors series of video games

 * Muso (InuYasha), a minor character from InuYasha

People with the surname Musō include:
 * Musō Soseki (1275–1351), Japanese Zen master
 * Musō Gonnosuke, early 17th-century samurai

title: Musou


text:
John Banham

Sir John Michael Middlecott Banham (22 August 1940 – 9 August 2022) was a British businessman. He was the chairman of the major brewer Whitbread from 2000 to 2005, and also chairman of ECI Ventures and Johnson Matthey.

Biography
Banham was born on 22 August 1940, and raised in Cornwall, where his father worked as a surgeon and his mother as a National Health Service (NHS) administrator, and was educated at Charterhouse School, and Queens' College, Cambridge, where he gained a first class degree in Natural Sciences. He worked at the Foreign Office for two years before moving to Reed International and then McKinsey and Co.

Banham was an avid sailor, participating in the 1979 Fastnet race, on a Contessa 34 when the yacht was hit by Force 11 winds some 90 miles off Land’s End. Of the 303 starting yachts, 80 had to be saved, 24 were abandoned (of which two were retrieved) at least 75 boats capsized and five sank. Running before the storm, and navigated by a submariner, the boat managed to make its way unaided to Milford Haven.

He was the first controller of the Audit Commission from 1983 to 1987, and was then Director General of the Confederation of British Industry from 1987 to 1992. In 1992 he became chairman of the Local Government Commission for England that led to a large-scale local government reform in England. He was knighted in the 1992 New Year Honours.

He was chairman of Tarmac from 1994 to 1999, and the chairman of Kingfisher plc from 1995 to 2001. He became the chairman of Johnson Matthey in April 2006. He has also acted as chairman of West Country Television and as a non-executive director of both National Westminster Bank and National Power.

In 1987, he was awarded an honorary doctorate from the University of Bath, and an honorary fellowship from Queens'. Banham was an active freemason. He was a deputy lieutenant of Cornwall.

Banham died on 9 August 2022, thirteen days before his 82nd birthday.

title: John Banham


text:
Carmenta (moth)

Carmenta is a genus of moths in the family Sesiidae.

Species

 * Carmenta aerosa (Zukowsky, 1936b:1236)
 * Carmenta albicalcarata (Burmeister, 1878)
 * Carmenta albociliata (Engelhardt, 1925)
 * Carmenta alopecura (Zukowsky, 1937)
 * Carmenta andrewsi Eichlin, 1992
 * Carmenta angarodes (Meyrick, 1921)
 * Carmenta anomaliformis (Walker, 1856)
 * Carmenta anthracipennis (Boisduval, [1875])
 * Carmenta apache Engelhardt, 1946
 * Carmenta arizonae (Beutenmüller, 1898)
 * Carmenta armasata (Druce, 1892)
 * Carmenta asema (Zukowsky, 1936)
 * Carmenta auritincta (Engelhardt, 1925)
 * Carmenta aurora (Philippi, 1859)
 * Carmenta autremonti (Le Cerf, 1917)
 * Carmenta basalis (Walker, [1865])
 * Carmenta bassiformis (Walker, 1856)
 * Carmenta benoisti (Le Cerf, 1917)
 * Carmenta bibio (Le Cerf, 1916b)
 * Carmenta blaciformis (Walker, 1856)
 * Carmenta buprestiformis (Walker, 1856)
 * Carmenta ceraca (Druce, 1893)
 * Carmenta chromolaenae Eichlin, 2009
 * Carmenta chrysomelaena (Le Cerf, 1916)
 * Carmenta coccidivora (Duckworth, 1969)
 * Carmenta confusa (Butler, 1874)
 * Carmenta corni (Edwards, 1881)
 * Carmenta crassicornis (Walker, [1865])
 * Carmenta cristallina (Le Cerf, 1916)
 * Carmenta daturae (Busck, 1920)
 * Carmenta deceptura (Butler, 1874)
 * Carmenta deipyla (Druce, 1883)
 * Carmenta dimorpha (Le Cerf, 1916b)
 * Carmenta dinetiformis (Walker, 1856)
 * Carmenta engelhardti Duckworth & Eichlin, 1973
 * Carmenta erici (Eichlin, 1992)
 * Carmenta flaschkai Eichlin, 1993
 * Carmenta flavostrigata (Le Cerf, 1917)
 * Carmenta foraseminis Eichlin, 1995
 * Carmenta fulvopyga (Le Cerf, 1911)
 * Carmenta germaini (Le Cerf, 1916)
 * Carmenta giliae (Edwards, 1881)
 * Carmenta guatemalena (Druce, 1883)
 * Carmenta guayaba Eichlin, 2003
 * Carmenta guyanensis (Le Cerf, 1917)
 * Carmenta haematica (Ureta, 1956)
 * Carmenta heinrichi (Schade, 1938)
 * Carmenta hipsides (Druce, 1889)
 * Carmenta infuscata (Le Cerf, 1911)
 * Carmenta ischniformis (Walker, 1856)
 * Carmenta ithacae (Beutenmüller, 1897)
 * Carmenta laeta (Walker, 1856)
 * Carmenta laticraspedontis (Zukowsky, 1936)
 * Carmenta laurelae Brown, Eichlin & Snow, 1985
 * Carmenta leptosoma Eichlin, 2002
 * Carmenta lytaea (Druce, 1884)
 * Carmenta macropyga (Le Cerf, 1911)
 * Carmenta maeonia (Druce, 1889)
 * Carmenta manilia (Druce, 1889)
 * Carmenta mariona (Beutenmüller, 1900d)
 * Carmenta mimosa Eichlin & Passoa, 1984
 * Carmenta mimuli (Edwards, 1881)
 * Carmenta minima (Le Cerf, 1916)
 * Carmenta munroei Eichlin, 2003
 * Carmenta mydaides (Ureta, 1956)
 * Carmenta odda Duckworth & Eichlin, 1977
 * Carmenta ogalala Engelhardt, 1946
 * Carmenta pallene (Druce, 1889)
 * Carmenta panisciformis (Walker, 1856)
 * Carmenta panurgiformis (Walker, 1856)
 * Carmenta phoradendri Engelhardt, 1946
 * Carmenta phyllis (Druce, 1884:33)
 * Carmenta pittheis (Druce, 1899:203)
 * Carmenta plaumanni Eichlin, 2002
 * Carmenta plectisciformis (Walker, 1856)
 * Carmenta porizoniformis (Walker, 1856)
 * Carmenta producta (Walker, [1865])
 * Carmenta prosopis (Edwards, 1882b:99)
 * Carmenta pyralidiformis (Walker, 1856)
 * Carmenta pyrosoma (Meyrick, 1918)
 * Carmenta querci (Edwards, 1882)
 * Carmenta rubricincta (Beutenmüller, 1909)
 * Carmenta ruficaudis (Walker, [1865])
 * Carmenta splendens Eichlin, 2002
 * Carmenta subaerea (Edwards, 1883)
 * Carmenta suffusata Engelhardt, 1946
 * Carmenta surinamensis (Möschler, 1878)
 * Carmenta tecta (Edwards, 1882)
 * Carmenta teleta (Le Cerf, 1916)
 * Carmenta texana (Edwards, 1881)
 * Carmenta theobromae (Busck, 1910)
 * Carmenta tildeni Eichlin, 1995
 * Carmenta tucumana (Le Cerf, 1911)
 * Carmenta unicolor (Walker, [1865])
 * Carmenta verecunda (Edwards, 1881)
 * Carmenta votaria (Meyrick, 1921)
 * Carmenta wagneri (Le Cerf, 1911)
 * Carmenta welchelorum Duckworth & Eichlin, 1977
 * Carmenta wellerae Duckworth & Eichlin, 1976
 * Carmenta whitelyi (Druce, 1899)
 * Carmenta wielgusi Eichlin, 1987
 * Carmenta xanthomelanina (Zukowsky, 1936)
 * Carmenta xanthoneura (Zukowsky, 1936b)

title: Carmenta (moth)