text:
Rona Ambrose

Ronalee Ambrose Veitch (, née Chapchuk; born March 15, 1969) is a former Canadian politician who was interim leader of the Conservative Party and the leader of the Opposition between 2015 and 2017. She was the Conservative Party member of the House of Commons for Sturgeon River—Parkland between 2015 and 2017, and had previously represented Edmonton—Spruce Grove from 2004 to 2015.

In her first term as an Opposition MP, she was the Conservative Party's Intergovernmental Affairs critic. Ambrose also served as vice-chair of the Treasury Board and has held multiple cabinet positions as Canada's Minister of Health, Minister of the Environment, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Minister of Western Economic Diversification, Minister of Labour, Minister of Public Works and Government Services, and Minister of Status of Women. She was President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada. She is also a former communication consultant and public policy consultant for the Alberta government.

In May 2017, she announced her retirement from federal politics to take effect during the summer. The next day, she was named a visiting fellow by the Canada Institute at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars. She retired in July 2017, stating that she hoped she was "able to inspire women to consider public service."

In August 2017, Justin Trudeau's Liberal government appointed Ambrose to a 13-member NAFTA advisory council that would provide opinion and feedback on the negotiations with the United States and Mexico.

Early life and education
Ambrose was born Ronalee Chapchuk in Valleyview, Alberta, as the daughter of Colleen (née Clark) and James Chapchuk. She grew up in both Brazil and Parkland County, Alberta. In addition to English, she also speaks Portuguese and Spanish. Ambrose has a Bachelor of Arts in women's and gender studies from the University of Victoria and a Master of Arts degree in political science from the University of Alberta.

Political views
Ambrose is a feminist. Prior to her work in Canadian federal politics, Ambrose's community service included involvement with organizations working to end violence against women, including the Status of Women Action Group, the Victoria Sexual Assault and Sexual Abuse Crisis Centre, and the Edmonton Women's Shelter.

Ambrose also calls herself a libertarian and is a fan of Ayn Rand novels such as Atlas Shrugged and The Fountainhead. She was a member of the Trilateral Commission, an organization dedicated to closer cooperation between Europe, North America, and Japan.

Political career
Ambrose was first elected to Parliament in the 2004 federal election for the newly created riding of Edmonton-Spruce Grove in west Edmonton.

On February 16, 2005, she made headlines after making a remark in Parliament directed at Liberal Social Development Minister Ken Dryden in reference to the Liberal national child care plan: "working women want to make their own choices, we don't need old white guys telling us what to do".

Environment Minister
In 2006 elections, Ambrose successfully defended her seat in Edmonton–Spruce Grove with 66.8% of the vote in the riding. She was then appointed Environment Minister in Prime Minister Stephen Harper's minority government. Ambrose's appointment to cabinet made her the youngest woman appointed to cabinet at the time.

On April 7, 2006, Ambrose announced that Canada had no chance of meeting its targets under the Kyoto Protocol and must set more realistic goals for cutting greenhouse gases. "My departmental officials and the department officials from natural resources have indicated that it is impossible, impossible for Canada to reach its Kyoto target. And let me be clear. I have been engaging with our international counterparts over the past month, and we are not the only country that is finding itself in this situation", said Ambrose.

On April 13, 2006, Ambrose stopped an Environment Canada scientist, Mark Tushingham, from speaking at the launch of his science fiction novel, Hotter than Hell, set in a dystopian future caused by global warming. Tushingham's publisher and environmentalists believed this was because the book was not in line with the government's views on climate change, but Ambrose's spokesperson said that the speech was billed as coming from an Environment Canada scientist speaking in official capacity and thus out of process.

On April 25, 2006, Ambrose expressed her support of the (now defunct) Asia-Pacific Partnership on Clean Development and Climate as an alternate to the Kyoto Protocol, because it includes China and India, two large polluting nations that are not bound by the latter agreement. The APP had voluntary emissions reduction targets and was focused on developing technological solutions to solving climate change.

In May 2006, Ambrose criticized the previous Liberal government's failure to meet the high targets that they had negotiated at Kyoto, saying, "We would have to pull every truck and car off the street, shut down every train and ground every plane to reach the Kyoto target the Liberals negotiated for Canada."

In June 2006, opposition discontent over Ambrose's actions as environment minister prompted the NDP and the Bloc Québécois to try to table a motion in the Commons environmental committee calling for her resignation. The motion was blocked with the help of the Liberals after the Conservatives said that the motion would be a confidence motion, that if passed would trigger an election in Fall 2006.

In August 2006 she stated, "I welcome the commitment from British Columbia to preserve and increase the population of Northern Spotted Owls ... It is my opinion that, given the measures they are taking, such as stopping logging in areas currently occupied by the owls, there is no imminent threat to the survival or recovery of the Northern Spotted Owl at this time."

On October 19, 2006, Ambrose introduced a Clean Air Act that aimed to reduce the level of greenhouse emissions starting in 2020, cutting them to about half of the 2003 levels by 2050. She also introduced other regulations to industries and vehicles as well as a possible cooperation between the federal government and the provinces to create a system that would report air emissions. In an interview with the media, Ambrose denied that the Conservative government had withdrawn from the Kyoto Protocol despite its previous opposition to it. However, industries will have until 2010 before they are expected to reduce emissions, and the government will not have final (and voluntary) targets ready until 2020. Oil companies will have to reduce emissions on a per-barrel basis, reduction proportional to production basis.

Ambrose attended the November 2006 United Nations Climate Change Conference in Nairobi, Kenya.

A few weeks before Ambrose was shuffled out from the environment portfolio, she told a parliamentary committee that Canada had paid its debts under the Kyoto Protocol only to have an Environment Canada official point out that the bill was still unpaid.

Western Economic Diversification and Intergovernmental Affairs
News stories began to appear in late 2006 of a possible Cabinet shuffle that included shifting Ambrose from her environment portfolio. As part of the January 4, 2007 cabinet shuffle, Ambrose was replaced as Environment Minister by John Baird and became Minister of Western Economic Diversification, Minister of Intergovernmental Affairs and President of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada.

Minister of Labour and Minister of Public Works and Government Services
After winning reelection in the 2008 election, Ambrose was appointed Labour Minister on October 30, 2008. On January 19, 2010, Ambrose succeeded Christian Paradis and was appointed as the new Minister of Public Works and Government Services where she introduced a major project to improve the way the government administers its pay and pension systems and "which will modernize service, introduce efficiencies, and improve our stewardship responsibilities in those areas." That system was to be the Phoenix Pay System.

Minister responsible for the Status of Women
On April 9, 2010, Ambrose was also named Minister responsible for the Status of Women after Helena Guergis was dismissed from Cabinet.

The International Day of the Girl Child was formally proposed as a resolution by Canada in the United Nations General Assembly. Rona Ambrose, Canada's Minister for the Status of Women, sponsored the resolution; a delegation of women and girls made presentations in support of the initiative at the 55th United Nations Commission on the Status of Women. On December 19, 2011, the United Nations General Assembly voted to pass a resolution adopting October 11, 2012, as the inaugural International Day of the Girl Child.

On September 26, 2012, Ambrose voted in favour of Motion 312, a motion by Conservative MP Stephen Woodworth that would have directed a Commons committee to revisit the section of the Criminal Code defining at what point human life begins. Viewing the motion as an attempt to re-open debate on abortion laws, Canadian pro-choice groups and Commons opposition parties considered her vote inconsistent with her ministerial role and prompted a call for her resignation. The motion was eventually voted down. Ambrose responded to her critics, stating her concern of discrimination against girls that is made possible by sex-selection abortion. Pro-Life groups praised Ambrose for supporting the Motion.

Minister of Health
In July 2013, Stephen Harper appointed Rona Ambrose as Minister of Health and kept her as Minister of Western Economic Diversification.

While she was an MP, Ambrose worked closely with Nadia Murad, a Yazidi refugee and Nobel Peace Prize winner, in pushing the House of Commons to label the persecution of Yazidis a genocide. She also led the fight for a Canadian refugee program to bring Yazidi women and girls who have been sexually enslaved by ISIS to safety in Canada, which resulted in the rescue of over 1000 women and girls.

On June 11, 2015, she made headlines for being "outraged" that (in a unanimous decision) the Supreme Court of Canada expanded the definition of what constituted medical marijuana to include oils, teas, brownies, etc. from its previous limitation to dried leaves, arguing "Marijuana has never gone through the regulatory approval process at Health Canada, which requires rigorous safety reviews and clinical trials with scientific evidence".

When asked why the testing has not been done when people are taking medical marijuana every day, she responded, "It is not my job as Minister. If there is clinical evidence and a company decided ... to submit it to the regulatory approval process, it would be looked at. That has never happened."

Leader of the Opposition
Stephen Harper resigned as Conservative party leader after the party was defeated by the Liberals in the 2015 election. Ambrose, who was elected in the new riding of Sturgeon River-Parkland—essentially the suburban portion of her old riding–announced that she would run for the interim leadership of the Conservative Party. She was elected to that post on November 5, 2015—becoming the third woman to hold the post.

Ambrose was the third female leader of Canada's major centre-right party. The first was former Prime Minister Kim Campbell who led Canada's now defunct Progressive Conservative Party of Canada, and the second was Deborah Grey, of the former Canadian Alliance. She is also the third woman to be Opposition Leader, after Grey and the NDP's Nycole Turmel. All three of them served in an interim capacity. Under the party constitution, as interim leader she was not eligible to run for the leadership at the subsequent Conservative Party of Canada leadership election.

On November 13, 2015, Ambrose responded to the terrorist attacks in Paris committed by the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant. Ambrose stated, "The fight against ISIS (ISIL) requires a strong humanitarian response, but also a military response ... It's important that we remain resolute and support our allies."

Ambrose supports an inquiry into missing and murdered Indigenous women.

In February 2017, while still a sitting MP, Ambrose introduced Private Member's Bill C-337, An Act to amend the Judges Act and the Criminal Code, also known as the JUST Act. If passed, this bill would require judges in Canada to undergo training on sexual assault law, involving education on rape myths, stereotypes about victims, and the impact of trauma on memory. The JUST Act gained widespread support from experts and victim advocacy groups and was subsequently passed unanimously by the House of Commons. However, the bill did not pass third reading in the Senate, as the Senate rose for Summer 2019 without voting on the JUST Act, resulting in expiration on the order paper, as the order paper is wiped clean for the October 2019 federal election.

Resignation from Parliament
In May 2017, Ambrose announced to her caucus that she would leave federal politics at the end of the spring session of Parliament, in June 2017, several weeks after her successor as Conservative leader is chosen. Her seat was held for the Conservatives by Dane Lloyd who won the by-election.

Post resignation
Ambrose has stated that though she supports the merger of the Progressive Conservative Association of Alberta and the Wildrose Party, she will not be a candidate for the leadership of the proposed new United Conservative Party of Alberta.

She joined the Canada Institute at the Woodrow Wilson International Center for Scholars, a Washington, D.C. based think tank, as a visiting fellow focused on Canadian–American trade and to lead the organization's campaign to educate officials in both countries about the benefits of an integrated North American economy.

She was also appointed a member of the NAFTA advisory council set up by the Trudeau Liberal government in August 2017.

In 2018, Rona Ambrose and Laureen Harper, wife of former Canadian prime minister Stephen Harper, launched the She Leads Foundation. She Leads is a non-profit organization based in Alberta focused on encouraging women to run for office and participate in public life. Alongside UN Women, Ambrose assisted in the launch of SHEInnovates Alberta, a campaign providing tools necessary to encourage women to seek leadership positions and innovation.

In May 2020, it was announced that Rona Ambrose had joined the board of directors of the e-cigarette company Juul.

Following Andrew Scheer's resignation after the Conservative loss in the 2019 Canadian federal election, Ambrose faced pressure from many prominent Conservatives to run for party leader in the 2020 leadership race. Ambrose announced she would not run for party leader in January 2020, during a Facebook live stream in the Alberta mountains.

Personal life
Ambrose is married to J.P. Veitch, a private investment businessman and former rodeo bull rider. She was previously married to Bruce Ambrose from 1994 to 2011.

Honours

 * She was sworn in as a member of the Queen's Privy Council for Canada on 6 February 2006. This gave her the Honorific Prefix "The Honourable" and the Post Nominal Letters "PC" for Life.
 * In 2008, Ambrose was No. 17 on the Western Standard's "Liberty 100" top Canadian "pro-freedom activists, journalists, think-tankers and partisans".
 * In 2012 She was awarded the Canadian version of the Queen Elizabeth II Diamond Jubilee Medal.

Scholastic

 * Chancellor, visitor, governor, rector and fellowships

title: Rona Ambrose


text:
ABC (1922 automobile)

The ABC was a light car which planned, in 1922, to sell for $300, but which never went into production.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: ABC (1922 automobile)


text:
Jack Whittingham

Jack Whittingham (2 August 1910 – 3 July 1972) was a British playwright and screenwriter.

Early life
Whittingham was born in Heaton, West Yorkshire, England, and educated at Charterhouse between 1924 and 1929. He then went up Lincoln College, Oxford to read law. During the early 1930s he was briefly engaged to the Wrigley heiress, Ada Elizabeth Offield. Between 1932 and 1937, Whittingham worked for a number of newspapers and in 1937 joined Alexander Korda as a contract screenwriter. During the Second World War, he was based on Iceland with an artillery regiment.

Film career
Beginning with the film Q Planes in 1938, Whittingham was a prolific screenwriter. Between 1937 and 1948, he wrote 14 screenplays for companies including RKO, Associated British Picture Corporation, British National and Ealing Studios.

Ealing Studios
In 1948 he was a contracted screenwriter for Ealing Studios. He wrote the original story and screenplay for Cage of Gold (1950), Pool of London (1951), Hunted (1952), The Divided Heart (1954) and the screenplay for I Believe in You (1954), Mandy (1952) and West of Zanzibar (1954).

British Lion
In 1956 he joined British Lion Films where he wrote The Birthday Present (1957).

Thunderball
Whittingham collaborated with Ian Fleming and producer Kevin McClory on a screenplay for a James Bond film. However, when Fleming developed cold feet about McClory as producer of this first James Bond screenplay, he novelised the work into his ninth official novel, Thunderball; however, the novel only credited Fleming.

McClory and Whittingham then sued Fleming, which led to a settlement in 1963 that gave McClory the film rights to the novel. During the lawsuit, Whittingham stepped down as 'co-plaintiff' and stood by McClory as 'principal witness', having previously signed away all his rights "of whatsoever nature" entirely when the screenplay was presumed finished. As a result of the settlement, future versions of the novel were forced to credit, based on the screen treatment by Kevin McClory, Jack Whittingham, and Ian Fleming (in that order). Two adaptations of Thunderball were subsequently made, the first being Thunderball in 1965 as part of the series of films from Eon Productions. The second adaptation was the film Never Say Never Again in 1983. Further adaptations had been planned at one point or another by McClory, but were scrapped due to lawsuits from MGM and United Artists.

In the film Thunderball, credits are somewhat complex. Like a good number of James Bond films, it was promoted as being "Ian Fleming's". The screenplay was credited to Richard Maibaum and John Hopkins. However, it was also credited as having been "based on an original screenplay by Jack Whittingham," which also was credited as being "based on the original story by Kevin McClory, Jack Whittingham, and Ian Fleming". Whittingham's sole original screenplay credit has been omitted from posters and other promotional materials.

Post-Thunderball
In his late fifties, Whittigham decided to take up sailing. He went to the Boat Show at Olympia and bought a boat; six books on how to sail, and spent a couple of weekends on his old friend Tom Farmiloe's boat before setting off for France!

In July 1965, his daughter, Sylvan, launched his new boat, "Domani", a 38-foot Atlantic Ketch, and, later that year Whittingham and his wife, Margo, his son Jonathan and one other crew member Christopher Smith. left the UK and set sail for Malta where they had built a villa overlooking the harbour at Marsaxlokk. During the six week voyage, they endured mechanical problems and a hurricane-force storm during the crossing of the Bay of Biscay. The ship's company were forced to heave to under bare poles for three days which fortunately pushed the vessel North East back out into the Atlantic rather than towards the coastline.

They put into Gibraltar for repairs where Christopher left the boat to return to England. Maltese authorities were concerned when the arrival of the boat was overdue and search parties made attempts to locate them. He finally limped into Valletta harbour, and, whilst retired and living in Malta, worked on screenplays about the lives of Ian Fleming (The Life of Ian Fleming) and Oleg Penkovsky.

Personal life
In 1942 he married Margot Isobel Gough and they had a daughter, Suilven (Sylvan) born 2 December 1943, and boy, Jonathan, born 5 June 1946. Sylvan became a singer and photographer. References

Death
Whittingham died of a heart attack in Valletta, Malta, on 3 July 1972.

Selected filmography

 * Q Planes (1939)
 * Escape to Danger (1943)
 * Welcome, Mr. Washington (1944)
 * Twilight Hour (1945)
 * Waltz Time (1945)
 * Kiss the Bride Goodbye (1945)
 * The Laughing Lady (1946)
 * The Lisbon Story (1946)
 * Green Fingers (1947)
 * Counterblast (1948)
 * The Dancing Years (1950)
 * Cage of Gold (1950)
 * Pool of London (1951)
 * Mandy (1952)
 * Hunted (1952)
 * West of Zanzibar (1954)
 * The Divided Heart (1954)
 * I Believe in You (1954)
 * The Birthday Present (1957)
 * Thunderball (1965)
 * Never Say Never Again (1983) - used Whittingham's original treatment

Television scripts

 * Danger Man (1964)

title: Jack Whittingham


text:
Tony Harris (artist)

Tony Harris (born 1969) is an American comic book artist, known for his work on series such as Starman, Iron Man, and Ex Machina. He has been nominated for nineteen Eisner Awards and has won two.

Career
Harris began his comics career in 1989. Initially, he flitted from assignment to assignment and worked on T-shirts and ads to pay the bills during dry spells in his comics work. He rose to prominence in 1994 with the publication of DC comics' Starman. Summarizing his career up to this point, he remarked "When you jump around as a freelancer, it's easy to have your attention span dwindle down to that of a gnat. When I got Starman, I had to buckle down and just get serious about the work." Co-created with James Robinson, Starman led the two to critical acclaim and eventually an Eisner Award for the "Sand and Stars" story arc.

After four and a half years on Starman, Harris left to pursue other projects but remained the cover artist on for another year and a half. During this time he was also one of the original members of Atlanta's Gaijin Studios.

He pencilled the series Ex Machina with Brian K. Vaughan, published by Wildstorm from 2004 to 2010, and War Heroes with Mark Millar, published by Image Comics, which has only had three issues published as of 2013. In April 2010, Following the completion of Ex Machina, Harris announced that he and B. Clay Moore would produce a series called The Further Adventures of the Whistling Skull, this was later turned into JSA Liberty Files: The Whistling Skull, tying it into the earlier JSA Liberty Files stories he did, and the first issue saw print in December 2012. Concurrently with this, he launched a new series with Steve Niles, Chin Music, in April 2013, then a new creator-owned series, Roundeye: For Love.

In the late 1990s he moved on to form Jolly Roger Studio, in Macon, Georgia.

Other works include keyframe animation and storyboards for Chevrolet commercial, illustration for Cartoon Network, product design and illustration for Universal's The Mummy.

Controversy
In November 2012, Harris posted a controversial essay about female cosplayers on his Facebook page, which drew congratulations from some of his fans, but criticism from others for being sexist.

In April of 2013, Harris was paid by Comic Book Store Owner Mike McDaniel of Heroes and Villains in Warner Robins, Georgia, for a commission to honor Bert Christman, a Golden Age comic book creator who died in World War II. Despite repeated inquires by McDaniel on the status of the commission, Harris has not completed the work and McDaniel remains not refunded. McDaniel went public on his store's Facebook page in June of 2019 with the issue.

In October 2019, Harris had failed to deliver a $1200 commission to fan Seth Talley. Talley had paid for the commission seven years prior. Talley had reached out to Harris's agent, who reported that Harris had not worked on them. Comic news website "Bleeding Cool" reached out to Harris, who provided visual evidence of the commission, but then reported he would be destroying the piece rather than finishing it. After Bleeding Cool ran an article on the matter, Talley was repaid via the CashApp.

Technique
Harris makes extensive use of models and photo reference in his work, and composes panels featuring multiple characters with models he uses to represent specific characters. Ex Machina: The First Hundred Days, the first collected trade paperback of that series, featured a "Cast of Characters" page showing the 12 models that starred as the characters in that storyline, followed by a gallery showing how several excerpted pages from that story progressed from photo to pencil art to inks to colors.

Awards

 * 1997 Eisner Award for Best Penciller/Inker or Penciller/Inker Team (with Wade Von Grawbadger, for Starman)
 * 2005 Eisner Award for New Series (with Brian K Vaughan and Tom Fesiter, for Ex Machina)

DC

 * Batman: Legends of the Dark Knight #169-171 (2003)
 * Ex Machina #1-50 (2004–10)
 * Green Lantern Corps Quarterly #7 (1993)
 * Hourman #22 (2001)
 * JSA: All-Stars, miniseries, #4 (2003)
 * JSA: Liberty File, miniseries, #1-2 (2000)
 * JSA: Unholy Three, miniseries, #1-2 (2000)
 * JSA Liberty Files: The Whistling Skull, miniseries, #1-6 (2012-2013)
 * Legion: Secret Files 3003 (among other artists) (2004)
 * The Legion #25 (among other artists) (2003)
 * Starman, vol. 2, #0-5, 7-10, 12-17, 19-26, 29-33, 35, 37, 39-40, 43, 45 (1994–98)
 * Superman: Lex 2000 (among other artists) (2001)

Marvel

 * Darkhold: Pages from the Book of Sins #3 (1992)
 * Dr. Strange: Flight of Bones #1-2 (1999)
 * Iron Man Vol. 3 #86-88 (2004)
 * Punisher Summer Special #3 (1993)
 * Spider-Man: with Great Power... miniseries #1-4 (2008)
 * Star Wars Special: C-3PO (2016)

Other publishers

 * Blade #1–2 (Buccaneer, 1989), with writer Seaborn Mercer
 * Down #1 (Image, 2005)
 * Frank Frazetta Fantasy Illustrated #2 (Quantumm, 1999)
 * Nightbreed #18–20 (Epic, 1992)
 * Nightmare on Elm Street (Innovation Publishing, 1991)
 * Obergeist: Ragnarok Highway #1–6 (Image, 2001)
 * Chin Music #1–2 (Image, 2013, with writer Steve Niles)

title: Tony Harris (artist)


text:
Template talk:Regions of the world

Naming African regions
Editors of the 'Region' template,

Wikipedia ought to take a more consistent approach to the naming conventions used for the regions of the African continent. Officially, they are Northern, Western, Eastern, Southern, and Central, and should be recognized accordingly.

Redirects are a useful way of accounting for 'popular' terms, but any work that purports to have encyclopedic worth needs to take a more rigorous approach. Take the use of 'America', for example, while most people do associate this with 'The United States of America', it is inaccurate on grounds of denotation, hence Wikipedia’s disambiguation page for it. Another good example is the distinction between 'South Africa', the country, and 'Southern Africa', the region.

Now aside from the official name of a Wikipedia page itself, users will always be at the utmost liberty to use any term they so choose and according to their personal style: Western Africa of West Africa, for instance, but Wikipedia should, at least, retain the best term for its official page designation.

I hope that this clarifies the rationale for making the names of the African regions more consistent... Lucidity 07:46, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * What do you mean officially? Regions don't have official names.  Wikipedia policy is to use the most common unambiguous name for articles, see Naming conventions. If you disagree with this policy discuss it there, don't begin changing it unilaterally. - SimonP 07:51, Dec 24, 2004 (UTC)
 * I would disagree with your argument on regions listed for Africa. I use Great Lakes (Africa) and Horn of Africa a great deal.  The first is a region combining elements of Central and Eastern, while the term "greater Horn" is a nice way of getting a subset of East Africa. That said, the Horn isn't listed on the template and I'm not sure I've ever heard of Somalia, for example, being in East Africa. The East African Community certainly doesn't seem to think so.  -   Banyan Tree  01:21, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Not "scientific"
Let me just voice my concern about the excess compartmentalization of the world in a manner that doesn't seem to resemble a single scientific approach. --Shallot 20:40, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? The regions listed aren't scientfic?

Additions
Is there any particular reason the following designations were not used?

 * America: North America, Patagonia, South America
 * Asia: Near East
 * Other: The Mediterranean

I realize packing in every possible region is impossible, but I wager these usages are far more common than, for instance, Northeast Africa (and why Northeast instead of Horn of Africa) or North Asia (yet no Northeast Asia, which is a familiar zone to frequent flyers). - choster 5 July 2005 23:20 (UTC)
 * Yes, why is not there Northeast Asia to which some parts of Siberia and Far East of Russia, Japan, western coast of The United States, China, North Korea, South Korea and Mongolia belong? --GenuineMongol (talk) 03:26, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Removing Congo
This is for disambig link repair, currently Congo is a disambig page, there is no page related to the geographic area "congo" to replace it with, only the countries Republic of the Congo and Democratic Republic of the Congo, it doesn't seem like either of those is appropriate but I could be wrong. cohesion | talk 01:31, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

Reorganisation of template
Hello! To rectify the apparent imbalance in the categorising of various continents and subregions in this template (e.g., Europe/Asia, yet Americas), I've reorganised it to consolidate Europe and Asia into Eurasia. Another way to do this is to separate out as follows: I'm fine with either or, but a melange of the two doesn't make sense. Thanks! E Pluribus Anthony 12:07, 13 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Americas: North America...; South America...
 * Eurasia: Asia...; Europe...

Kurdistan
This is a highly contraversial ethnic region with undefined borders. Basicaly it can occupy the entier galaxy r could be the size of a pea. Borders are determined by the artistic nature of the person drawing. Article displays the flag as well as other goodies of the proposed kurdish nation.

I hence believe its presence is inaproporate on this template. Put the kurdistan article in contrast with other articles and you will see what I mean. -- Cool CatTalk 18:06, 5 March 2006 (UTC)

Nomenclature: Congo Region and Middle Africa
Today I created the article Congo (region) mainly because I felt that it was missing from Template:Regions of the world. Only afterwards did I discover that Congo already exists, but that this article seems to restrict itself to dealing solely with the two Congos, and not the wider, vaguer subregion. What is the preferred option now: should Congo me merged with Congo (region) and redirect to Congo (disambiguation) instead? Please have your say here. Thanks.

And a related issue: I would argue that the UN designation Middle Africa - which currently redirects to Central Africa - is the least ambiguous name for the region, as listed at Template:Africa, just like Southern Africa is used to effectively disambiguate from South Africa. Please respond here. Thanks!  // Big Adamsky •  BA's talk page 10:40, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I support using Middle Africa, though acknowledge that Central Africa might prevail in common usage (hence perhaps retaining it where it is).

 * The topic matter in Congo (region), however, is (should be) covered in Congo – read the hatnote – and seems an unnecessary duplication; the former should redirect to the latter. Without objection, I will tweak and redirect.  I also think we have to draw a line with the regions included in the template ... and wouldn't lose sleep if the Congo (and other arguably 'atomic' regions) were nixed.  Perhaps it would be better to include only the (top-level) UN subregions, and or to segregate the UN subregions from others of varied definition?  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 15:29, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I truly feel that Congo is a portion of the African continent on par with (historic) Guinea, (the) Sudan and the Horn of Africa. I also realize that there may arguably be many more such regions whose names and approximate locations and boundaries are found only in the minds of people, but that these definitions and delimitations find their way into the names used by international organizations and corporations (e.g. newspapers that in their very name convey a message about which geographical zone they intend to cover). Ideas?  // Big Adamsky •  BA's talk page 13:11, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Feelings ain't enough just yet, methinks. ;) As above, I think we should refrain from including the kitchen sink in the template and only do so if usage, currency, and citations can support it.  None of the compendiums in my possession, for instance, note the Congo region – though I obviously don't deny it – but emphasise the two titular countries and (importantly) the Congo River ... which actually is the true predicate for everything around it.  Can you cite anything?  Thus, I think Congo can – and has – been retrofitted to deal with this and human geographic elements can be included elsewhere (e.g., Culture of Africa or similar).  I've redirected Congo (region) for now, but please feel free to build it and maybe include it later.

 * This also applies to some other regions in the current template and I think it can be pruned of them. I'm quite surprised, actually, that Guinea (region) has been developed as much as it has, while Sudan (region) is a shell of what it can be.  And both the Sudan and the Horn of Africa are far more prevalent.  Importantly, none of these cite sources.

 * I guess my main jist is this: what should be included in this template? I'd advocate for including just common and top-level geographic and geopolitical regions in the template (viz. those that can be cited and are agreeable, like the UN subregions), or stratifying them somehow.  Otherwise, it'll get too unwieldy.  However, I'm somewhat easy on this, but less so on the issue below. :)  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 14:02, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I've just reorganised the template according to a two-line system, where for each region X, the first line lists subregions identified by (usually primary) compass point; and the second line lists the other subregions (usually smaller than those on the first line). I think this helps prevent the template from becoming cluttered. What think ye? Regards, David Kernow 14:28, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Great. Given that the UN scheme for subregions largely coincides with the revised template and cardinal directions noted (with few exceptions, like the Caribbean), and consistent with prior discussions and a quest to balance geographic content in Wp, I've tweaked it accordingly. I'm wondering, however, if the formatting can be improved somehow: the template now looks far too ... high.

 * Moreover, I've equilibrated the Americas with Eurasia and split out the continents in the Western hemisphere.  There's little reason to not do so, and (as above) for balance this is actually required, but I acknowledge that the region of Latin America (straddling both) might be problematic within the current layout. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 15:06, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

I have no sources to cite right off the top of my skull. Part of this crux lies in the definition of a (sub-)region: Many of the more informal terms used in public discourse on both formal and informal levels to describe a certain area have no set boundaries; they have only a core and an optional/arguable periphery. Nonetheless, these terms are used and they mean something to the jouranlists and politicians and artists who use them, and to their audiences. (Phew, my talk is getting increasingly philosophical here). And, on the other hand, some formally designated regions or clusters of states and other entities (such as Western Asia) remain poorly used in spite of their unequivocal, unbiased and descritive nature.  // Big Adamsky •  BA's talk page 14:55, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * AOK. Build the article with that sourcing in mind.  I guess my main point is not overloading the template.  Perhaps we should include a link in the template to informal regions while pruning it of excess?  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 15:13, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
 * EPA: Regarding inclusion of non-UN informal regions, see below.  // Big Adamsky •  BA's talk page 15:21, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Southern Asia/South Asia
Moreover, I'm unsure why Southern Asia was recently created distinct from South Asia – usage differentiating the two is unclear at best and this can only promote confusion. (This is different, however, from North America/Northern America or South Africa/Southern Africa ... where usage is generally distinct with cited examples.) Is there a reason why one article cannot deal with notions of both? One should redirect to the other and, without, objection, I will do this. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 15:29, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Titles of regional articles noting direction
Similarly, I'm of the very strong belief that – unless there's sufficient reason otherwise – all sub/regional articles (e.g., for continents) should be entitled at "cardinal directionern foo", not merely "cardinal direction foo" for consistency. Thoughts? E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 14:23, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Is common usage such as "West Africa" rather than "Western Africa" sufficient reason otherwise...? Unsure, David Kernow 14:31, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * DK: I'm unsure. I guess we could reverse the question: how often does one hear East Europe or North Europe? Take a glance at the subregions for Africa, for example, and it strikes me as mildly odd if not inconsistent (for obvious reasons, though) that Southern Africa is amidst other regions of simpler title. As well, given that North and South America (continents) are almost universally known by those terms, I suggest moving subregional articles as above more for consistency and, to a lesser degree, to obviate ambiguity. Thoughts? Also, see below. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 15:06, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I, just like yourself EPA, am hugely enthusiastic about using UN-designated subregions, which means my own personal preference for [card.dir.]-ern rather than [card.dir.]-Ø. This said, there are some forms which do differ in meaning/usage (cf North vs Northern America). I have no easy answer for the less rigidly defined (but not necessarily less used) names for informal regions, such as Indochina or "Pacific Rim".
 * As for rearranging the template hierarchically or topically, that makes sense.  // Big Adamsky •  BA's talk page 14:39, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
 * BA: see above. As well, perhaps we should merely include a link to the article regarding informal regiona and only include agreeable/prevalent/systematic ones?  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 15:06, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Suggestion: Let's promote/highlight the UN-designated subregions then under their proper continents, arranged in a hierachical tree based on this familiar scheme. Yes? Then all the informal, but commonly used, regions with variable definitions can be added underneath in italics to denote their fuzziness, while at the same time acknowledging their extensive use.  // Big Adamsky •  BA's talk page 15:19, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes: I think the current (restructured) template largely reflects this now, though I wish it was less vertically challenged and it could probably beg for some formatting improvements. I thought about italicising the informal regions, but decided against it because I wonder if another editor would wonder WTF?  I'm easy, though.  Have at it!  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 15:36, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

Goodie. They could be further categorized as either A) continents, B) UN regions or C) other regions. The last category is the one most vulnerable to edit wars over what's in and what's left out. For example, why include the Baltic region while excluding the Barents region.

The UN, as we know, divides the world thusly: World It makes a careful point of noting that ''The continent of North America... comprises Northern America..., Caribbean..., and Central America.  // Big Adamsky'' •  BA's talk page 15:47, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Africa
 * Eastern Africa
 * Middle Africa
 * Northern Africa
 * Southern Africa
 * Western Africa
 * Americas
 * Latin America and the Caribbean
 * Caribbean
 * Central America
 * South America
 * Northern America
 * Asia
 * Central Asia
 * Eastern Asia
 * Southern Asia
 * South-Eastern Asia
 * Western Asia
 * Middle East  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.200.190.46 (talk) 10:37, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
 * Europe
 * Eastern Europe
 * Northern Europe
 * Southern Europe
 * Western Europe
 * Oceania
 * Australia and New Zealand
 * Melanesia
 * Micronesia
 * Polynesia

 * I think the current template simply/already reflects all of this and, yet, is a balanced approach to Eurasia/Americas. (You're also missing Southern Africa above, which I've added.)  The only deficiencies are regions (geo or otherwise) that traverse continents: Latin America and Caucasus, even, arguably Middle East and Southeastern Asia. Given that LA is more a sociopolitical delineation (with varied definition), I don't think that should trump universal geographic, continental distinctions (North/South America).  And though I'm loathe to do so, perhaps we should consider adding regions in more than one continent to each of them?  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 15:56, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I also think that the current template does attempt to address this in a balanced manner, but, as per above, I wonder about the subjectivity of inclusion/exclusion in the third category of regions. Who is to judge whether one such region is eligible for inclusion and on what grounds? In many cases this gets difficult to assess and justify, and some category 3 regions - new term! =] - are defined by physical geography while others are macro-economic in nature. I totally concur about North and South America (as discussed elsewhere)  // Big Adamsky •  BA's talk page 16:09, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * From the get-go, this has been my point. I was reticent to nix Congo (region) because of that, but where does one draw the line?  For now the current version is fine to me.  However, there's room for improvement: perhaps we should nix all of the 'category 3' hurricanes, including only the UN sub/regions in a revised template but providing links to articles (like to informal regions or perhaps anew, like Americas (terminology)) that summarise regions on each continent?  That would allow everyone to have their cake and eat it too.  Thoughts?  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 16:14, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Here's an idea: The template could stay as it is now (which is fine by me), or it could be clearly divided (with a thick line!) into a "UN" section and an "other" section. But then a number of the "other" regions would more or less coincide with the UN subregions, just by a different name... Example: Turkestan ≈ Central Asia, but not quite. Siberia ≈ Northern Asia (per UN in Eastern Europe), but not quite.  // Big Adamsky •  BA's talk page 16:24, 22 March 2006 (UTC)

 * The status quo or mild variation (with lines) is seemingly sufficient. :) E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 19:07, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Southwest Asia / Western Asia
Currently the template has Western Asia. Is that correct? From reading the above I'm guessing the display text is set according to one preference/standard and the page name is set according to some other preference/standard. Can anyone clarify? Ewlyahoocom 13:09, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, it is correct: to forego ambiguity and as part of a neutral attempt to organise said content, the UN scheme for geographic subregions has been adopted here (particularly for entries on the first line of each continent) and elsewhere, whereby Western Asia is indicated (which redirects to Southwest Asi). This also precludes apparent inconsistency in the template: e.g., Southwest Asia, yet Eastern Europe.  Personally, I'd prefer if the article (and others like it) were moved to the UN entitlements, but one can't have everything just yet. :) E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 13:23, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Australasia vs Australia
I've been looking at the template:region and the template:continent and they seem similar enough that with a few additions to the region template, the continent template would become redundant and could be discontinued. The inspiring thought came when I saw Antarctica was a featured article and thought the other continents should be as well, and while browsing over Africa saw three geographic tables which just screamed "clean me up!" Xaxafrad 04:07, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Template:Continent features continents only, whereas Template:Regions of the world features continental divisions, subdivisions, etc. For now, I'd say keep both, as this seems a useful distinction. Not quite sure what/where your African inspiration lies...? Regards, David Kernow 06:20, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Latin America
Isnt it superflouous to link to Latin America twice from the North AND South America regions? Is Central America "good" enough to have it's own category, or should it be deleted from one of the Americas? Geographically, I would place it in North, but culturally, in South. Any other thoughts? Xaxafrad 05:10, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
 * Re Latin America appearing twice, I think it's because it straddles North (well, Central) America and South America. Re Central America, so far as I'm aware the Americas are usually first divided into North America and South America, then into smaller regions which include Central America as part of "North" America. I agree, though, that there's much to be said for an initial three-way division of the Americas (into North, Central and South America) but I don't think that's the norm... Anyone else know more? Regards, David Kernow 06:15, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I think the current arrangement is sufficient: mentioning Latin America in both North America and South America, which is true. This sub/regional template is (rightly) geared along a geographic/physiographic hierarchy for ease, not a sociopolitical one per se.  I generally hark of DK's sentiments ... however, since Central America is a subregion of the North American/American continent, a three-way split based on that is unjustified.  Similarly, Caucasia is a subregion in Eurasia straddling both Europe and Asia, though I see little debate to split those hairs ... nor should we.  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 23:51, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

A proposed redesign
I have created a redesign at Template:Regions_of_the_world/Temp as an attempt to solve the UN/not-UN debate and also to make the template a bit easier to use. The location pictures have had been sacrificed for space but most people know where Africa is anyway. Thoughts? Comments? Andeggs 16:11, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I like it! Note, however, that "Latin America" is used in the UN context as an intermediate grouping of three of the subregions proper; it is not a UN subregion in its own right. Also, "Australia and New Zealand" is the name of one single UN subregion covering three seperate entities. See also this table.  BigAdamsky | TALK | EDITS |  16:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes I know - slight problems, although I think the Latin America one is the most pressing. Thing is, to accommodate the UN fully we need an extra column (so that the Americas section is split) and this makes it much more untidy. Again I would suggest that sacrifices have to be made for simplicity. Once pages for all UN subregions have been created, this template could be tweaked accordingly. Andeggs 16:34, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm liking your proposal better and better by the minute! However, I disagree that entirely separate articles need to be created for the UN subregions, since these are already duly mentioned in seperate sections in their respective articles (or at least more or less duly...). But since Latin America is not a subregion, should it be included in the template at all?  BigAdamsky | TALK | EDITS |  16:42, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Hmmm; I'm unsure this is a problem that needs to be solved ... if even there is one. I prefer the current template – I'm all for highlighting and using the UN scheme to organise this and that, but I think the current sublime segregation of sub/regions is better than the proposed arrangement that cleaves regions and duplicates over-arching ones (e.g., Americas) while omitting others (e.g., Europe, North America).  The current one – by keeping things somewhat non-descript yet organised – mitigates potential accusations of undue weight in highlighting the UN or any one scheme.  In addition, the 'UN' regions are not limited to the UN (i.e., they are in common usage) and may have interpretations that differ (e.g., Western Europe).  Moreover, the maps aid in understanding.

 * Lastly, I utterly oppose creating dedicated articles for each of the UN subregions: the current sub/regional articles already treat this information, comparing and contrasting (if needed) with usual or common reckonings for these conceptual constructs. It's counterproductive to create article forks to house information that should reside in one spot for the benefit of users.  Dedicated lists and categories should be considered instead.  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 16:45, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

How about having two templates that link to each other, one that follows the UN/non-UN distinction and the current template? Hidden could then be used to offer users the option to see/use either or both. I'd also retain the location pictures as they help distinguish which set of links to read through to find a particular subcontinent/region/etc. Regards, David Kernow 00:18, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm afraid I've got to disagree with you David. My over-riding concern is that templates are clear, easy-to-use, navigational tools - even if they occasionally compromise accuracy or NPOV to do so. Lots of children and new users are going to be navigating the country/continent pages and in my opinion, having Show/Hide templates which repeat each other's material will be immediately confusing.
 * On the NPOV point, Pluribus, which is a very interesting one, I don't think we will ever escape it. Nationalists, colonialists and expansionists, etc. will no doubt disagree with the current divisions. Think for example of Pan-Africanism. To embrace the UN classification is a little POV, I'll admit, but at least it allows users to navigate the articles with ease. In those articles they can then learn about finer POV points. I think you are no probably right that there is no need to create UN subregion articles. However I do think this template's design is a problem to be solved.
 * I have created a new version (with the maps back in) at Template:Regions_of_the_world/Temp2. Again, I'd again appreciate comments (and edits if possible). Ta Andeggs 06:53, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Re making templates clear, easy-to-use navigational tools, I'd say the return of the location pictures certainly helps. On the cosmetic side, would you mind if the (non-aligned) colons were removed? Thanks for your work, David Kernow 13:09, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I actually tend to think that adopting the UN scheme, given the absence of a salient alternative, is quite impartial; however, some think of it to the contrary for whatever reason.
 * In any event, I disagree that the current design is problematic and the proposed template does not allay any of the concerns cited and prompts added ones. The current one, in the least, proceeds from larger to smaller without splitting hairs unnecessarily.  The proposed template is IMO an ineffective navigational tool, not at all intuitive, and flawed at its root.  In it, there (remain) no mentions of various continents despite traditional and common notions to the contrary (e.g., Encyclopædia Britannica) and segregates regions rather haphazardly (e.g., the UN scheme also demarcates the continent North America as including Northern America, Central America, and the Caribbean) ... thereby seeming rather weasely.  And, again, they are not solely UN regions but ones that are commonly known.  To use an adage: if it ain't broke, don't fix it ... and even if it is, the proposed template isn't the solution. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 13:19, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

At the risk of pushing this too far and making myself a few enemies, I have created one last design for your consideration. This incorporates both the UN system and the desire to have the world's continents included. It also includes the world's oceans which are unduly missing lacking in the current template.

Most fundamentally I have removed all non-UN links. This is radical but I think it's the only way of keeping a hold on this template which just seems to grow without limit. How can we justify including Benelux and not Kazakh Steppes? Guinea (region) and not North China Plain? Levant and not Midwestern United States? The only way is through dispute on this talk page (e.g. over Congo (region)) which is prone to domination by conservatives. If large informal regions deserve a mention then this page should be linked to and improved (as suggested by others above).

There are limits to all designs of this nature but I think the ones in Temp3 are manageable. Most significantly I believe sticking points remain over the handling of Latin America and Northern America. My argument is that we should strive for a neat, workable navigation template by overcoming these problems rather than lumbering on with the current unworkable, biased and down-right ugly version. ;-) Andeggs 15:43, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree that the current template is becoming (if not already) large and the criteria for including subcontinental (sub)regions probably too woolly. Perhaps it may never be anything but very woolly, in which case a solution may be to adopt Andeggs' Temp3 template but make the links to subcontinents links to lists of subcontinental regions, including a color-coded image of each continent/subcontinental area on each "List of regions in X" page. Starting from some of the blank maps available at the Commons, I'd happily volunteer to create/adapt such images, on an as-and-when basis.

 * In the meantime, however, thanks to Andeggs for his efforts and obvious thought about this template. Best wishes, 17:23, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

Weighing in rather late regarding this, I don't see what the problem is with the current template: aesthetics aside (which I don't necessarily agree with), it is navigable, functional, structured, yet inclusive. How is the current template unworkable? The proposed Temp3 template, and predecessors, are too simplistic and create added problems. I share concerns expressed by others about the exclusion or the consolidation of the Americas (like, where is North America, which differs from Northern America) while splitting out Europe/Asia – that isn't biased?

In summary: the current version may not be ideal, but the proposed versions are even less palatable. However, I also thank Andeggs etc. in efforts to improve the template. A the 0th | talk | 10:35, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

As well, I think the suggestion to include oceans is a great idea! I will incorporate this into the current template. A the 0th | talk | 10:40, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Never too late for more points of view, A the 0th – thanks for your interest!
 * Thinking of similar navigational templates, I feel the current template is too bulky. Taking Africa as an example, would a solution be to convert the ordinal links in the first line ("Central Africa", "Eastern Africa", etc) into links to pages such as "List of regions in Central Africa", "List of regions in Eastern Africa", etc and then move the links on the second line ("Great Lakes", "Guinea", "Horn of Africa", etc) out of the template to the relevant lists – then do the same for the Americas and Eurasia? It might be easier to convert Andeggs' Temp3 to achieve the same. Either way, I feel links to regions such as "Great Lakes", "Patagonia", "Anatolia", "Benelux", "Kazakh Steppes", etc are probably best kept one link away from the template. Regards, David Kernow 12:51, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the feedback and encouragement! I don't share the feeling that the current template is bulky (though maybe some whitespace can be removed from it): the current template seems a balance between top-level regions and smaller ones without getting too detailed or oversimplifying notions.  Regions are conceptual constructs and, thus, vary depending on source and even on user.  And the 'UN' regions above are not just those indicated by the UN but in common usage.  And what of others: foe example, surely the Middle East deserves inclusion, or some could argue that?  I feel if the template is pruned, as proposed, someone will liberally add more regions to it anyway.  And if this template's edit history is any indication, the template currently seems rather manageable.

 * The idea of having articles about subregions within regions (and linked appropriately) is interesting, but this seems a make-work project for not what: most of these sub/regions are already listed in the that article or (if not) should be added to it. A the 0th | talk | 13:23, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I'd only prune the template by shifting subregions into lists if there were a clear and consensual method to do so, but I agree that's less rather than more likely. I'm happy for the template to stay in its current form if that's where a consensus lies. I suspect any ideas on trimming the whitespace (in the bottom rh corner) would probably compromise the one-(super)continent-per-line format that currently works well, so I'd probably even prefer to keep that too. (However, any ingenious ideas gratefully heard!) Best wishes, David Kernow 17:21, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

A the 0th is a sockpuppet of E Pluribus Anthony as established by CheckUser (Thanks for wasting our time.) This does not make his/her arguments invalid but it does mean there is less opposition to the proposed redesign than first appears. Perhaps, indeed, it is ready to be implemented? Am I correct in thinking David Kernow and BigAdamsky support this? Cheers Andeggs 11:50, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes... Disappointing news about E Pluribus Anthony/A the 0th... Meanwhile, though, I'm happy for Temp3 to be given a try, perhaps with the "links to lists of subregions" suggested above...? Regards, David Kernow 02:29, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes - is annoying people are like that isn't it! I quite like your list of subregions idea but it does create a fair amount of work before this template can be changed. Perhaps we could focus our efforts on ensuring the subregions that will be deleted from here are prominantly linked from the existing region pages. I'm sure all of them have links to the subregions somewhere but it might be worth ensuring they are in the first few paragraphs. Andeggs 06:13, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

 * If you don't mind waiting a day or so, I should be able to make the time to create these lists...? Yours, David 13:11, 18 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I'd say dump the "UN system" and replace it with a more natural one. Why for instance Central Europe is not included? I'm personally interested as at various times my home town has been considered a part of Eastern, Western and even Northern Europe, yet it's was in the Central Europe all the time.  // Halibutt 08:31, 17 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I do not agree with the proposed template. I think we should use the most commonly known subdivisions of the world. For example if a user is looking for North America they will not find it! Instead they will go to "Northern America" and for example Mexico is not included there, and almost every person in the world knows that Mexico is in North America. If a user is looking for Central America, he or she will surely will find the info with no problems. We should list the regions as internationally known and used. The UN subdivision is not common and as stated by the UN it is used ONLY for statistical convinience.AlexCovarrubias 05:43, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Northern/North America
I replaced Northern America with North America. It doesn't make sense for this template to lack a link to North America, and the term "Northern America" is by comparison quite obscure. I am aware that including Central America and North America causes some overlap of coverage, but it would be even worse to leave out the article at North America. I believe that including North, Central, and South America on the template is the best configuration, with the fewest faults. --Yath 06:28, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Sorry I have reverted this to "Northern" as per discussions above. It seems that most people agree that it is least conflictual if the template follows the UN system even though this excludes "North America". Note that the first few lines of the page on Northern America does link to the constituent countries so this system is navigationally efficient. Thanks Andeggs 22:56, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't think the above discussion shows any consensus for a total adherence to the UN system, just that the UN system is a useful guide. Keeping "Northern America" is both silly and violates the basic Wikipedia policy of using common names. - SimonP 21:35, 16 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I also agree, we should not use the term "Northern America" for various reasons, mainly because it is used by the UN only for statistical convinience under an economic point of view. The most world-wide known educational systems divides the Americas in North, Central and South. Although "North America" includes the countries of Central America, a clarification should be made in the Article "Central America" to inform that some countries teach that Central America is a subdivions of the North American continent. AlexCovarrubias 05:35, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

I am adding a link to "North America" because the UN system also divides the Americas in North and South. Commonly a person will be looking for the most used division of the Americas, this includes North America also. If a person is looking for the another UN subdivision called "Northern America", they will find it there also. AlexCovarrubias 23:40, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Having both Northern and North America seams absurd. I understand the previous version was too big, but it better described the regions of the world. UN system, based in economics, is not necesarily better. What about having "North America (Central America)? —Preceding unsigned comment added by  Marianocecowski (talk • contribs)

Exactly, I think its silly to have North and Northern America, or do you think we should include South and Southern America??, most people around the world divide the Americas/America, into 4 simple regions: North America, Central America, the Caribbean and South America, just because the UN includes the region called "Northern North America, doesn't mean that its the most appropriate way to divide it. Supaman89 20:51, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

One of many regional systems
I have no major problem with this template except the tacit assertion that these are THE regions of the world rather than just one classification among many. An encyclopedia, as wikipedia is supposed to be, has the potential to come across as authoritative and objective, and care should be taken, I think, to make sure readers know something like a list of regions of the world is a generalized classification scheme with a specific point of view, and that other equally valid systems exist.

What I mean is, this template's system is a fine system of (relatively large) regions from the point of view of Political geography. Of course there are other branches of geography (see Template:Geography topics). From the viewpoint of Cultural geography one might argue for different regions. I suspect most of the criticisms about this template relate to people approaching it from a political or a cultural point of view, as these are perhaps the two most common ways people think about the world and its regions. Some other common ways of thinking about the world and its regions include the viewpoints of Economic geography (example region, "NAFTA"), Environmental geography ("Amazon rainforest"), Biogeography ("ecoregions"), Geomorphology ("Appalachian Mountains"), Climatology ("the Horse latitudes"), and so on. And each of these points of view will result in radically different "regions of the world". Pfly 07:14, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Good point, Pfly, I think; how about amending the template's name and title to something like "Geopolitical regions of the world"...? Regards, David Kernow (talk) 12:33, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes I agree with this too. We could be even blunter and call it "Geopolitical regions (according to the United Nations)".Andeggs 12:55, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I think I prefer keeping "of the world"... I volunteer to wait a day or so (in case anyone else passes by with an objection or alternative) and then rename. David (talk) 14:15, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Too many regions?
Hy (first post here) I have been improving the articles Western Europe and Eastern Europe and I've been watching at this particular template. I'm afraid that many of the regions which are slowly appearing are slowly spoiling the whole template. I mean Latin Europe is at most a cultural region and not a geographical one. Then we have Latin America. Now we have Slavic Europe. How much longer until we have Celtic Europe, Germanic Europe, etc (and all the conflict that will appear?). If we add to that all the other cultures (on all the other continents) I predict a very bad time for this template. IMHO we should only keep the geographical regions and simply remove all the cultural ones. Hey, I like to be honest. Flamarande 12:43, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Hi Flamarande. I couldn't agree more with you, there's a real danger of the template becoming unmanageable. A while back we had similar problems (see discussion above) and implemented this version. The only worthwhile addition to it that I can see is that of a Show/Hide facility.
 * An alternative approach is to recast this template as being the United Nations regions of the world, since they have classification system in theory agreed by all its members (and therefore fairly NPOV). I would be happy with that but there would then there would be an implicit endorsement of the UN. Andeggs 11:07, 12 October 2007 (UTC)

Eurasian
"Eurasian" leads to the article Central Asia. What has Central Asia do to with European geography and/or culture? If you care to read the article Russia it says quite clearly that Russia is a transcontinental country (i.e.: a country with parts in both continents). I propose that either someone finds a better article and links it to (something to do with Europe) or failing that it should be removed altogether. Flamarande (talk) 14:50, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Hi. Central Asia is sometimes considered part of Europe under the umbrella of Greater Europe. Jkliajmi (talk) 14:55, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Hmmm, I'm not sure if agree with that (Central Asia) but as I'm not intent in imposing my personal opinion in this matter perhaps we should use the 'Greater Europe' article instead. At least it also includes Greenland (geographically located in North America) and a few others. If you truly want to include all regions/countries with cultural ties with Europe use the proper article (i.e.: the so-called "Greater European sphere of influence"). Flamarande (talk) 15:03, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I'm not really sure what you mean. Perhaps if you carry out the changes on the article, we can see how we can proceed from there? :) Jkliajmi (talk) 15:10, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Ok, the changes make sense. I guess it avoids ambiguity. Jkliajmi (talk) 15:31, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

 * To be honest I think that the map in that article presents some problems (it includes Jordan, and some "suspect" countries in Asia). But that is not a matter of concern for this template. To be safe I'm going to include the proper requests for improvement in the article. Flamarande (talk) 15:37, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Central Asian places like Afghanistan, Tibet, and Xinjiang that have nothing to do with Europe should not be dubbed Eurasian. Please cite sources that actually refer to Central Asia and Eurasia interchangeably. I am reverting unref'ed edits. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 20:57, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Neither Afghanistan, Tibet, or Xinjiang have been placed under Europe. Please actually read the map. 78.146.17.244 (talk) 21:04, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

But those places are not Eurasian. By Central Asia being called Eurasia, you are calling those places Eurasian. Please cite sources indicating that Central Asia and Eurasia are used interchangeable. Until you do so, it is OR. If there are no cited sources in 24 hours, I will revert the edits once again. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 21:36, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

 * I have changed the name of the link "Eurasia" to "Central Asia". If that was all you wanted reverted, you should have just changed that; but your original revert left a whole variety of valid changes undone. 78.146.17.244 (talk) 21:42, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

MAPS!
Some anon users insiste on introducing obviously WRONG and POV maps of Europe and Asia (83.220.200.110 - the one who first introduced the maps, now blocked for being an open proxy or zombie computer, coming from Opal Telecom, GB, 89.240.206.86 - coming from Opal Telecom, GB, the same anon as the precedent?; 78.146.17.244 - coming from Opal Telecom, GB, blocked for violating 3RR, 78.146.254.197 - coming from Cablesurf Network Equipment, Ireland)! Something must be done about this! The Ogre (talk) 12:38, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * 78.146.17.244's block log is more informative than the talk page. There is clearly some sockpuppetry, and suggestions of one or more banned users disrupting this template. Semi-protection is an option, though I am also considering full protection. Hopefully a discussion will follow which can clarify the problems with the maps and resolve this issue before any further edit warring takes place. -- zzuuzz (talk) 13:01, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Right, firstly, can you just block all the IPs from editing. This is too confusing, and if they want to contribute, they can make an account so that they are identifiable. Secondly, it is Ogre who tagged the images, so using the excuse that they are "tagged" is not valid. Maltalia (talk) 13:51, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Some maps follow to help. -- zzuuzz (talk) 14:01, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I strongly support the Expanded map for Europe, since it is much more detailed. I however am not so struck by the alternate Asia map, since it doesn't colour all Asia one colour. The Europe one has all "core" Europe one colour, and then a lighter shade for extended Europe. The Asia one seems to imply that only half of Asia is Asian. That is my thought on the matter anyway. Maltalia (talk) 14:07, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Hello everyone. There are several issues with the geographical maps of Asia and Europe categorized as A, some major (substantive) and some minor (procedural):
 * Major issues:
 * Asia A:
 * Since when does geographical Asia include the whole of the European parts of Russia (includind the isolated exclave of Kaliningrad)?!?
 * Since when does geographical Asia include the whole of the European parts of Turkey (Turkish East Thrace)?!?
 * Since when there are two types of geographical Asia - darker greenand lighter green?!?
 * Since when does Papua New Guinea is in another continent that Irian Jaya, in fact, since when does the whole of New Guinea is in geographical Asia and not in Oceania (see Image:Oceanias Regions.png), as well as all the other islands west of it that are part of Melanesia, like Timor?!?
 * Europe A:
 * Since when does geographical Europe include the whole of the Asian parts of Rusia, as well as all the other countries from the fomer Soviet Union, well beyond the Ural Mountains or the Caucasus Mountains?!?
 * Since when does geographical Europe include the whole of the Asian parts of Turkey (Anatolia)?!?
 * Since when does geographical Europe include the whole of Israel (as a single area isolated in the Middle East)?!?
 * Since when does geographical Europe include the whole of Greenland?!?
 * When Maltalia says that the A maps are more detailed is he refering to the fact that those maps show country borders? Well, in maps so small in order to be in a template, I hardly believe that to be an issue. In the respective continent articles, all of that is explained and graphically shown in detail.
 * Minor issues:
 * Yes, I've tagged these A maps in the Commons as factually inaccurate, and I this say so in one of my edits - I have nothing to hide.
 * These A maps were introduced in this template by User:Jkliajmi, now definetely blocked, and basically defended by 4 anon users, 2 of whom are now blocked. The only good faith editor that seems to prefer them is Maltalia.
 * For all the above reasons, I believe that the A maps are just wrong and, in fact, POV. So the B maps are the ones who should be placed in the template. Thank you. The Ogre (talk) 16:15, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

 * I agree with you about the Asia map. However, the European one highlights which countries are seen as "European", such as Israel. That is why all of Turkey is highlighted. 78.146.254.197 (talk) 16:33, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

 * An IP address in the 78.1... range? I am sorry but blatantly the same as the other IP here before. I am therefore striking your comment. Maltalia (talk) 16:35, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes! But responding to him: Seen as European by whom? You see, there is a lot of controversy regarding that. Namely the Turkey issue. Regarding Israel... well I suppose we should just colour all of the Americas and Australia/New Zealand as being part of Europe, no?!? The Ogre (talk) 16:38, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I would in fact suggest possibly creating new maps entirely, which combine features of both A and B. It can still show Greater Europe etc, but be more accurate than the current map, since following the sources, some of the countries included in this map don't seem to fit with the "Greater Europe" concept. Maltalia (talk) 16:37, 12 August 2008 (UTC)
 * My friend... that is a discussion for the Greater Europe article, nor for the template Regions of the World! The Ogre (talk) 16:40, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

I strongly prefer the B maps, which show the geographical regions, just as they should. Compare the description of Europe: Bounded in the east by the Ural mountains etc. The A maps are political, and thus unsuited for this template's purpose. Plus, the Europe A map also includes Israel and Jordan, and Jordan isn't in Europe at all. The problem with Greater Europe is that there are plenty of definitions and hardly two people speaking of Greater Europe mean the same thing. Huon (talk) 21:42, 12 August 2008 (UTC)

-firm support for the B maps as per above. The A maps aren't even good quality, the grey and greens are not consistent across the map. The bitmap editors the user was using "smeared" the colors so that the colors got off. Thegreyanomaly (talk) 22:43, 17 August 2008 (UTC)

Middle East
Compared to other regions here, Middle East is incredibly biased, controversial, ambiguous and subjective term. It's simply not in the same league with terms like Europe, Asia, Africa. I'm going to remove it. -- Mttll (talk) 17:20, 2 March 2009 (UTC)
 * Reverted. Yes it is a completely Eurocentric term, but unfortunately it's a very common one, and it's one of the most well-known cultural regions of the world. Without it, the template would be flawed. Night w (talk) 16:53, 22 June 2010 (UTC)

Can we please add the Middle East Back? Think we should also differentiate Central American from the rest of North America, as well as the Caribbean

Polar and antiPolar?
Polar gets on this template, Arctic and Antarctic, but what about antiPolar? The Tropics and surrounding subtropics ? 70.24.244.248 (talk) 13:04, 23 December 2011 (UTC)

Caucasus
I would like to propose Caucasus be added to this template alongside Middle East under both the Europe and Asia headings. sephia karta |  dimmi  19:27, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Regions
We should have either 7 regions (Africa, Asia, Australia, Europe, North America, Polar Regions, South America), or 6 regions (Africa, Australia, Eurasia, North America, Polar Regions, and South America), or 5 regions (Africa, Americas, Australia, Eurasia, and Polar Regions). But having Americas as one entity and Eurasia as two different is not justified as physiographically Eurasia is a single continent and landmass, but North America and South America are two different landmasses. FonsScientiae (talk) 20:33, 27 July 2012 (UTC)

Arctic Region and Antarctic Region
These are two distinct regions, not subregions of one and the same region, and should be listed separately as Arctic and Antarctic at the region level. We don't need any grouping of regions like 'Polar regions' in this template.
 * we also have not a "equatorial region", I agree and gonna split it as
 *  By Latitude Polar regions (Antarctic, Arctic), Equatorial region, Middle latitudes.
 * Also we need open-start with World ocean, Continents (Americas, Eurasia, Africa, Antarctica).

Maryland in Asia
I'm pretty sure Maryland is not a part of Asia. Or at-least the Maryland that is linked is not in Asia but the United States. As pointed out by FoulCoke on reddit.com/r/maryland 108.45.74.6 (talk) 02:42, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

OTT
This template is too much. It's a big unwieldy mess that in trying to include EVERYTHING has become meaningless and hard to navigate. Suggest it gets wound back to its former size and just be a normal template. ---Merbabu (talk) 10:41, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
 * Agree on that. By the way the US and Canada occupies a dis-proportioned part of it. Lappspira (talk) 09:55, 9 June 2017 (UTC)

title: Template talk:Regions of the world


text:
File:Lljulithuania.jpg

LLJU symbol.

title: File:Lljulithuania.jpg


text:
Talk:Subregion

This makes absolutely no sense to me. 205.174.22.28 05:20, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

This looks pretty much like original research. --Shallot 20:42, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Defining the extent and limits of an exotic region
Hm.. the more I click my way around on these pages, the more I come to realize that perspectives and understandnings on all these exotic regions and continents vary and are highly subjective and even biased. Perhaps the English usage is much more inconsistent, unprecise and overlapping than the native-speakers' usage. If so, this is similar to other vaguely-defined regions that are found in the minds of distant groups of people and mean different things to them. See also Talk:Siberia, Talk:Latin America, Talk:Scandinavia, Talk:Middle East and Talk:Balkans, and also exonym versus autonym for similar discussions of namings and meanings. //Big Adamsky 18:09, 30 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't disagree, but this isn't limited to mere English usage/mastery. I'm finding much of the content based on uncited, unverifiable points-of-view.  That's why I've been so adamant in making various (some unilateral) editions that are precisely rooted in the opposite and consistent with Wp policies.  If I can be of assistance, please let me know.  E Pluribus Anthony 07:11, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I am inclined to agree. This article should not be a list of proposed countries and Kurdistan is a proposed country. -- Cool CatTalk 15:31, 17 March 2006 (UTC)

Nomenclature: Congo Region and Middle Africa
Today I created the article Congo (region) mainly because I felt that it was missing from Template:Regions of the world. Only afterwards did I discover that Congo already exists, but that this article seems to restrict itself to dealing solely with the two Congos, and not the wider, vaguer subregion. What is the preferred option now: should Congo me merged with Congo (region) and redirect to Congo (disambiguation) instead? Please have your say here. Thanks.

And a related issue: I would argue that the UN designation Middle Africa - which currently redirects to Central Africa - is the least ambiguous name for the region, as listed at Template:Africa, just like Southern Africa is used to effectively disambiguate from South Africa. Please respond here. Thanks!  // Big Adamsky •  BA's talk page 10:48, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

Mexico
Where is Mexico? I can't find it in Central America. Has it been moved into the newly designated UN subregion of Central America (subregion)?

I know that Mexicans don't consider norteamericano to refer to them or their country. Maybe that's why the UN created subregions, to be politically correct. But this is (a) an encyclopedia (b) for English-speaking people.

And some of us would like to know what continent Mexico is in. Is it in North America or South America or America (continent) or what? --Uncle Ed 15:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Answering my own question: Mexico is in the UN sub-region of Central America (UN sub-region).

 * The continent of North America (003) comprises Northern America (021), Caribbean (029), and Central America (013).

Interesting how every continent other than "Americas" has its component parts listed alphabetically. The UN statistics folks figured out a way of putting the United States where you'd have a hard time finding it, since "Northern America" isn't listed alphabetically. I guess somebody decided it was time to bring Americans off their high horse. Ole! --Uncle Ed 16:48, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Restoring succinct list
I've restored the prior list of subregions and nixed the atomic list of territories in them. I'm all for using the UN scheme of sub/regions but, as conceptual constructs, other (admittedly tenuous) subregional schemes exist, as exhibited (e.g.) in any clutch of dictionaries/compendiums or the CIA World Fact Book that note cardinal directions when describing countries. Moreover, there was no order to the list of subregions/territories and it lacked structure; it perhaps would be better to amalgamate the two or create a dedicated article/list of UN subregions that lists territories in them. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 18:49, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Let's figure out some way to work on this together. I'm interesed in a list of the world's countries, organized by UN sub-region. You know more geography than I do; I'm willing to paste in the names and format them. How about you take the lead, and I do the leg work? :-)

 * Great; give me a day or two. I think an article entitled List of territories by subregion (1st choice; like similar lists), List of territories by UN subregion, or similar (as a list or table) would do. I use territories to include areas that might'nt be countries nor states; moreover, in Wp let's deprecate use of the hyphen (e.g., sub-region ), since it's somewhat unnecessary. :) E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 19:25, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree to all that. Let's try to get it done this week. --Uncle Ed 23:14, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Eastern Europe???
the map on this page shows siberia as part of eastern europe. does anyone have a better map which shows the ural line dividing russia into its european and asian segments gunslotsofguns 11:31, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

 * The whole thing is the point of view of an agency of the United Nations, and therefore needs no justification. It's their dime, they can say what they want. If they want to declare Russia to be part of Eastern Europe (UN sub-region), that's their right.

 * Wikipedia needn't adopt the latest vote of the General Assembly, because this is not a UN encyclopedia. Our contributors answer to no political authority whatsoever. We are earnest seekers of truth! Uncle Ed 13:34, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes. Why not?  The UN scheme is for organisational and statistical purposes, hence the simplicity of including Russia – whose capital, bulk of population and economy is in Europe – in one and not both; the source for the map is clearly noted in its caption.  Just as well here.  Arguably the same said can be said of other transcontinental nations; however, content in said articles equitably deals with this: in devising the tables for each of the continents, notes and provisos clearly indicate and accommodate for such duality.  For exammple for Asia, it would seem rather obvious to include the Asian portion of Russia in Eastern Europe so a proviso was included that indicates it in Northern Asia, as Encyclopædia Britannica does, instead.

 * Feel free to add another map regarding subregions – good luck in finding one that's neutral yet agreeable. In any event and in absence of anything else, I see little reason to obviate something which is verifiable for a hodge-podge that may change with the user or wind.

 * I'll also note that the above response seems to contradict indications in the section immediately above it. E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 13:45, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps I misunderstood. Is the "Subregion" article intended to describe the UN scheme of organizing countries by subregion? If so, I think it would be a good idea to:
 * 1) List each UN sub-region
 * 2) List the countries the UN classes into each subregion

If you agree with this, I can help you. I'm good with lists. --Uncle Ed 14:06, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I think we're on the same page, but on a different paragraph. :) The subregion article is intended to describe any notions regarding subregions, including those delineated by the UN and not: it is a concept not limited to the UN.  I fully support creation of a list of UN sub/regions (as above) and will do so shortly; however we should NOT be creating forks in the form of xxxx (UN sub-region) and instead link to the pre-existing articles about those regions already, all of which are in Wp, and (ideally) treat the UN topic within them.  Many already contain this information: Central America, Northern America, Southern Asia, et al.  Improvements can be made to others, but creating forks is unnecessary.  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 14:17, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Conventional usage and the United Nations scheme
To make an great article about geographical classifications like continents, regions or subregions, it would help if we first wrote an article (or series) which was just about the UN subregion scheme. The current articles are trying to do too much at once.

I vote that we create one page per subregion (a dozen or more), simply listing the countries which the UN statistics office has classed in each subregion. Then we can but them together, or turn them into templates or merge them.

I wish you would stop simply turning my work into redirects. We could be helping each other here. --Uncle Ed 11:46, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I support creating a list/article about the UN subregions (and will work on this; I'm on a wikibreak of sorts). However, as above, dedicated articles for each UN subregion are unnecessary forks and rather redundant.  Each of the sub/regional articles already treat the UN subregions in-text and (if necessary) compare and contrast with other or usual reckonings that may differ from them.  Forks help no-one, nor do their continued addition.  In fact, it seems that you should probably be considering the addition of particular categories instead.  E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 16:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Stats for UN subregions
You mean something like this?  BigAdamsky | TALK | EDITS |  23:19, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

Stats for UN subregions

Source: GeoHive.com * Incl. non-sovereign entities

Weird geographical hierarchy - rename article
The hierarchy principally seems to be: Continent - Subregion - Country - Region. How can subregion be 2 levels above region? The Middle East is mentioned as both a subregion and a region in the respective articles. Let's face it - region is a generic term and subregion is derivative and even more generic. If this article (really just a list) is to stay, I suggest it should renamed. Superregion perhaps - no just kidding. Maybe Region could be renamed subsubregion - sorry, still kidding. Seriously, maybe List of continental regions. As for that dreadful region article - dreadful intro at least - I hope someone moves it to wiktionary or does something with it. Nurg 11:31, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Perhaps it would be better to have a separate article on the UN geoscheme, which uses "voted-on" definitions for macro and micro regions. This curious scheme has the effect of putting the United States dead last in the Western Hemisphere, due to a trick of alphabetical ordering. That ought to teach those arrogant Americans (USA) their place! ;-) --Wing Nut 13:21, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Well that is certainly a much more specific title which is good. But I feel that duplicating info that is in this article is a backward step. And it does nothing to solve the problem with this article. Nurg 11:25, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I also find this page confusing. A "subregion" is simply a part of a region, and a region can be any area.  The City of Edmonds is a subregion of the Seattle Metropolitan region, the Nebraska Sand Hills is a subregion of the Great Plains, the Cascadia subduction zone is a subregion of the Pacific Ring of Fire, Belgium is a subregion of Benelux, Armenia is a subregion of the Commonwealth of Independent States, the Atlantic coastal pine barrens is a subregion of the Temperate coniferous forests biome region, etc etc etc.

 * I agree with this article's first half sentence, "A subregion is a conceptual unit which derives from a larger region." But everything else seems more regional than subregional.  Just because a region is part of a continent doesn't mean it isn't simply a region.  Continents are subregions of the planet after all.  Regional hierarchies are arbitrary.  What makes something a subregion rather than a region is just a matter of one's scope of interest.  So I don't understand why this page is called subregion instead of just region -- or if it is mostly about subregions as defined by the UN, why the page isn't called "Subregions as defined by the UN" or something.

 * In fact, now that I found it, the UN geoscheme seems to say the same things this page does, but much clearer. The only thing this page seems to offer in addition is lists of regions defined as subregions of continents, which seems arbitrary and confusing. Pfly 06:08, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Eastern Europe
No way that Eastern Eruope goes all the way to the Pacific Ocean. That's absurd and false. Clean this article up. In addition, North Africa does not entail the entire country of Sudan. This article seems to be more about legitimizing racial status-quo than anything else. Eastern Europe is basically based on Russian territory, while Sudan being a Muslim nation is considered wholly a part of the North African (Muslim/Arab) structure. This article should conform more to historical/cultural/physical regions and not nationalistic and political. --68.60.55.162 07:10, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

"Subregion" in Hungary (or Hungarian)
I only got this by clicking "Random page" but with luck someone here may be able to solve a bit of a problem for me. From time to time the missus and I translate Hungarian geographical articles. Indeed, I have made and various templates (in Category:Hungary geographical name conversion templates) to assist this.

Subregions of Hungary (kistérségek), sing. kistérség) are divisions of counties. I would prefer to translate it as "district", but that seems to be the terminology in use generally, and is how at least 1 native Hungarian naturally translates it, even though she lives in the UK where we would term such a thing a district or borough.

My difficulty here is I would like to include that as some kind of disambiguation in this article, but obviously since it generally is referring to much larger areas, it does not seem to deserve a section, and to put it as a hatnote may also give it undue prominence (and could open a can of worms about ever other kind of subregion in the world). Leaving aside any argument about whether this particular kind of subregion is the primary topic, what is the best to do here? Even a "See also" seems less than useful if someone is stubling towards its meaning for Hungarian articles and finds themselves confronted with these large areas, I think they would be more likely to click away than scroll down to the see also (and anyway its purpose is not to disambiguate but to lead to related information).

Any opinions, suggestions? Thanks. Si Trew (talk) 19:13, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Merge with United Nations geoscheme?
In the broad sense, the term "subregion" simply means a subdivision of a region. And the term "region" has a broad meaning with many usages across many fields. But this page, called "subregion", seems to be solely about the United Nations geoscheme. This is hardly the only way the term "subregion" is used. So, I don't see why this page even exists, at least in its present form. It is a "non-exhaustive list of [UN geoscheme] subregions", yet the United Nations geoscheme already provides a non-exhaustive list and links to exhaustive lists of regions and subregions within the UN geoscheme (like United Nations geoscheme for Africa and United Nations geoscheme for the Americas). It seems to me this page should be merged with the UN geoscheme page, if there is anything here that isn't also there. Otherwise it should either be deleted as redundant, or rewritten. No? Pfly (talk) 09:00, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

 * It should be deleted since it's redundant, I agree with you. This page was created as a POV fork years ago by a user who used lots of sockpuppets (some of them E Pluribus Anthony and Quizimodo are listed in the article history). So this page should be deleted.  Alex Covarrubias  ( Talk? )  16:52, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Strong Oppose - Subregions are not exclusive to the U.N. geoscheme, and their is global usage of the term. The article just needs to be re-written to explain what a subregion is (definitions, purposes, uses, etc.) and then link to lists of subregions, such as the United Nations geoscheme. 08OceanBeach S.D.  02:34, 24 June 2011 (UTC)
 * But at the moment article is mainly about the subregion in U.N. geoscheme: but the first two, (although very introductive, vague and general) and items in subregion list. Only the U.N. geoscheme regions are defined. The other itmes in the lists are not defined at all. So, if we want to have two separate articles, we need to improve this one a lot. --87.2.140.179 (talk) 22:20, 1 March 2012 (UTC)

MISLEADING ARTICLE!!! Rework top to bottom!
warned of it 18 years ago and nobody paid attention.

'''The UN geoscheme is a tool of the UN statistics dept. An internal tool built for a specific purpose under specific UN constraints. It has little to do with geography per se.'''

No geographer will use this scheme, and it has major oddities from a geographic pov: numerous countries added or left out from any definition of (sub)regions used in GEOGRAPHY, as opposed to: in UN statistics. The UN scheme never intended to set a GEOGRAPHIC standard.

The article now, with its title and definition (presented, as always, in the lead), MISLEADS users into believing that this is a geography article; it is NOT, it's a Wiki publicising effort of an obscure, specific UN Statistics Department working tool, which became far too visible on Wiki (proliferation of spin-off articles, lots of cross-refs by Wikilinks, too general titles) due to editors misunderstanding the topic themselves. Even the UN has more than one scheme, each used by another department. Warning for sticklers looking for UN sources explicitly making my point: You won't find a document stating for lay people that this or that UN scheme is not meant for general geographic use, because that's self-evident to all those it's actually meant for, i.e. the UN clerks. Wiki editors fundamentally misunderstood it for close to two decades, and it mushroomed into an entire cluster of misleading articles. They must now be sorted out, or else the user is f***ed!

I propose uniting them into one article (nothing new, see 11-years-old proposal here-above - hi !), huge or not, so that they become less likely to mislead.

As a minimum, this article should add to its title and definition (lead's 1st paragraph) "for UN statistical use only" or alike. Maybe rename as "UN statistical subregions", with the definition (at top of lead) containing the phrase "for use by UN Statistics Department".

If one insists on RS proof, look at UN's FAQ page here. Examples: the UN subregions take into consideration state borders: with the breakup of the USSR, they are changed. Not the physical geography has changed, just the political one! So these UN statistical subregions are constantly changing, depending on changes to state borders; impermanent, unlike physical geography. There has even been a subregion "USSR"! Also: there are additional bureaucratic subsets, only misleading if mistaken to relate to physical (or even political) geography, as well as in terms of the plain meaning of their names: see "Northern America" and "North America" subregions (latter one contains Caribbean and Central Am. w. Mexico; former one does not).

"Make the Wiki encyclopedia better for the benefit of the user", the No. 1 overriding obligation we have, asks that we undo this mess. Arminden (talk) 11:21, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Inner Asia ≠ Greater Ctrl Asia ≠ part of Muslim World
I have removed "Inner Asia/Greater Central Asia" as subset of Muslim World containing Turkic world and Greater Iran.

Inner Asia is very different from Greater Central Asia, and neither is part of the Muslim World, as they contain lots of majority-non-Muslim countries & regions. Arminden (talk) 19:20, 5 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Subregion