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Pamela Wallin

Pamela Wallin (born April 10, 1953) is a Canadian senator, former television journalist, and diplomat. She was appointed to the senate on January 2, 2009, where she initially sat as a Conservative.

Early life and career
Wallin was born in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan, and is of Swedish descent. Wallin spent much of her formative years in Wadena but completed her high school in Moose Jaw. In 1973, she graduated with a degree in psychology and political science from the University of Saskatchewan, Regina Campus (now the University of Regina) and began her career as an officer at the Saskatchewan Federal Penitentiary. Politically, she was a member of The Waffle, a left-wing faction in the New Democratic Party that existed in the early to mid-1970s.

Journalism
In 1974, she began her career in journalism, joining CBC Radio's news division. In 1978, she joined the Ottawa bureau of the Toronto Star where she remained for two years. In 1980 she joined CTV and became cohost, with Norm Perry, of Canada AM. In 1985, CTV named her its Ottawa bureau chief. She later rejoined Canada AM, hosting alongside J. D. Roberts.

In 1992, CBC Television hired Wallin in a highly publicized move. For many years, The National had been followed by a 40-minute nightly newsmagazine hosted by Barbara Frum, called The Journal. However, as a result of Frum's death in March 1992, the CBC wanted to revamp and reposition its entire approach to news programming.

In the fall of that year, Wallin and Peter Mansbridge debuted as the co-hosts of Prime Time News. Instead of Mansbridge reading the news on The National, followed by Frum introducing documentary and current affairs features and interviewing newsmakers on The Journal, the new show integrated the two former programs and featured Wallin and Mansbridge as equal co-hosts of the entire package. As well, the new show aired at 9 p.m., one hour earlier than the old National/Journal tandem.

The show fared poorly in the ratings and by 1994 had returned to its old format and time slot, with Mansbridge reading the news, followed by Wallin hosting a magazine segment which eventually took on the name The National Magazine. In April 1995, Wallin was dropped as host of The Magazine, and was succeeded in June by Hana Gartner.

Following her dismissal from CBC News, Wallin briefly returned to CTV as part of its coverage of the 1995 provincial election in Ontario, but did not rejoin the company permanently. Instead, she created her own production company, Pamela Wallin Productions, and launched a daily interview series called Pamela Wallin Live in 1995. Airing on CBC Newsworld and, in some years, on the CBC's main network as well, Pamela Wallin Live was a highly successful series which featured Wallin interviewing newsmakers, celebrities and other interesting personalities in a manner similar to CNN's Larry King Live. The show ran for four years before Wallin moved to the cable network TalkTV.

In 2000, Wallin hosted the Canadian edition of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire?.

Wallin has also published two books, Since You Asked (ISBN 978-0679310082) and Speaking of Success (ISBN 1552633705), and has made cameo appearances on the Canadian comedy series Royal Canadian Air Farce and Corner Gas.

Diplomatic and academic appointments
In 2001, Wallin, along with Foreign Affairs Minister John Manley, was one of the organizers of the "Canada Loves New York" rally for Canadians to show their support after the September 11 attacks (Manley ran in the New York City Marathon in 2001, a contributing factor in the organization of the rally).

On June 25, 2002, Wallin's television career came to an end when Canadian Prime Minister Jean Chrétien advised Governor General Adrienne Clarkson to appoint Wallin to a four-year term as Canada's consul general in New York City, her first diplomatic posting. In 2003, Wallin and Senator Jerry Grafstein were honoured by the Canadian Society of New York for their ongoing commitment to strengthening the ties between Canada and the United States. In 2006, she became a senior advisor to the president of the Americas Society and the Council of the Americas in New York.

One of the perquisites of the post of Consul General was an official residence on Park Avenue. In 2005, shortly before her term ended, Wallin bought a 500 sqft apartment for US$379,000.

In March 2007, she was appointed the seventh chancellor of the University of Guelph and was installed in June. She sat on the Panel on Canada's Future Role in Afghanistan, chaired by Manley, a former cabinet minister.

She was also appointed by the governor general as an honorary colonel of the Royal Canadian Air Force.

Corporate boards
In 2006, Wallin was appointed to the board of Bell Globemedia, owners of The Globe and Mail and CTV Inc. From 2007 to 2011 she served on the board of Oilsands Quest, Inc. and has also served on the board of Gluskin Sheff & Associates, Inc., an investment and wealth management firm and as a member of the advisory board of BMO Harris Bank. In 2013, as a result of the Senate expense claims scandal she was embroiled in, Wallin resigned from all three paid positions she held outside of the Senate: as a director of Gluskin Sheff & Associates, a wealth management firm, in May 2013, the board of Porter Airlines in June 2013 after having been on the board since 2008, and the board of the Ideas Council.

Canadian Senate
On January 2, 2009, Wallin was appointed to the Senate of Canada on the advice of Prime Minister Stephen Harper. Following her expulsion from the Conservative Senate Caucus in 2013, Wallin identified as an Independent from 2013 to 2016. From 2016 until 2019, Wallin has caucused with the Independent Senators Group. On November 4, 2019, Senator Wallin joined the Canadian Senators Group.

Residency and travel expense controversy
Wallin decided to leave the Conservative caucus on May 17, 2013, until an audit into her expense claims could be completed. On November 5, 2013, the Senate voted to suspend Wallin without pay for the duration of the 41st Canadian Parliament for alleged theft from the public purse. The suspension ended with dissolution of parliament for the 2015 federal election. In 2016 the Royal Canadian Mounted Police announced that criminal charges would not be laid against Wallin over her expenses. She subsequently returned to the Senate in 2015.

Personal life
Wallin is divorced. She was diagnosed with colorectal cancer in 2001.

Honours
In 1994, her home town of Wadena, Saskatchewan named its major street Pamela Wallin Drive in her honour. In 1999, she was inducted into the Saskatchewan Order of Merit, and in 2007 was made an Officer of the Order of Canada. In 2008, Toastmasters International announced that Wallin would be that year's winner of their Golden Gavel award.

Wallin has received 13 honorary degrees, including from Athabasca University, the University of Lethbridge and the University of Windsor.

title: Pamela Wallin


text: Category:Ethiopian athletes

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Category:Ethiopian athletes


text:
Anderson Valley

Anderson Valley is a sparsely populated region in western Mendocino County in Northern California. Located approximately 100 mi north of San Francisco, the name "Anderson Valley" applies broadly to several rural, unincorporated communities in or near the alluvial terraces along Anderson Creek and other tributaries to the Navarro River.

It is named after William Anderson, an early European settler to the area.

Geography
The name "Anderson Valley" applies to a region stretching from Boonville (located on Anderson Creek) and Philo (located on Indian Creek) to Navarro (located on Soda Creek). Rancheria, Anderson, Indian and Soda creeks are tributaries to the Navarro River, which flows north and west through the coastal range to the Pacific Ocean; Dry Creek flows south into the Russian River watershed in Sonoma County. The main stem of the Navarro River begins less than a mile south of Philo at the confluence of Anderson Creek and Rancheria Creek. The mouth of the Navarro is 10 mi south of Mendocino, California. Encompassing 315 mi2, the Navarro River watershed is the largest coastal basin in Mendocino County. The area is not seismically active, though a minor fault runs along the Valley floor.

The climate is tempered by cool marine air. Steep hills and mountains surround rolling to nearly level alluvial terraces. The dominant natural vegetation is a mixed forest of Coast Redwood, various native oak varieties, and Douglas fir. Elevation ranges from sea level to 2500 ft. The average annual precipitation ranges 35 to 80 in. The average annual temperature is about 53 F, and the average frost-free season ranges from 220 to 365 days. Towards the coast the summers are cool and moist with frequent fog, while the interior Anderson Valley proper features a warm to hot summer climate similar to nearby interior regions, with daytime highs occasionally in excess of 100 F.

History
Early Native inhabitants of Anderson Valley were speakers of two of the seven Pomoan languages. The Late Pomo of what is now the Yorkville area spoke the Central Pomo language. The Tabahtea (Tah-bah-tay) Pomo of the Boonville area west to Navarro spoke the Northern Pomo language. These residents occupied nineteen known village sites, with an estimated population of 600 in 1855.

The early European American settlers of Anderson Valley arrived after 1850. They practiced subsistence farming and expanded into resource extraction economies based on timber harvesting and livestock ranching. Some of the first European American settlers included Henry Beeson (who took part in the Bear Flag Revolt), his brother Isaac Beeson and William Anderson, their stepbrother, for whom the valley was named. The first wave of European American settlers included the Ornbaun, Hutsell, Barnett, Clow, Gschwend, McAbee, Rector, Burgess, Rawles, McGimsey, Witherell, Irish, Holgooden, Hiatt, Ball, Prather, Smelley, McSpadden, Wallace, Conrad, O'Barr, Bowen, Nunn, Vines, Buster, Farrer, Counts, Shields, Lawson, Williams, Donelly, Plaskett, Leonard, Hawkins, Stephens, Robinson, Tift, Perkins, Elliott, Ponad, Gasklii, Brayton, and Connard families.

John Gschwend established the first water powered lumber mill along the Navarro River in 1857, and Thomas Hiatt built the first steam powered lumber mill in 1877 near present-day Boonville. In 1880 a human population of around 1,000 maintained 75,000 head of sheep and 20,000 head of cattle. Commercial production of apples and hops began before the turn of the century, along with the development of Boontling, the local folk language. The 1940s and 1950s were boom years, when industrial automation and modern highway transportation enabled rapid liquidation logging of the remaining redwood forests. Many commercial lumber mills were established to work the brief timber boom.

By the 1960s the sheep, timber and apple sectors of the economy were in decline. Large tracts of land were removed from production and subdivided. The first commercial vineyards for wine grapes were planted. Marijuana production flourished with the influx of many new residents from the urban counterculture in the 1970s. By the 1980s the timber industry was reduced to two small specialty mills (lath and decorative fencing), the sheep industry to four working ranches of modest size, and the apple industry to a small fraction of its former planted area. In 1989 Sean Donovan of Boonville established KZYX, a community-based non-commercial, National Public Radio affiliated station.

Wine industry
A wine boom began in the 1980s, leading to the eventual establishment of the Anderson Valley AVA, specializing in Alsatian varietals, pinot noir and sparkling wine. The wine industry is currently the dominant contributor to the Anderson Valley economy, and major producers include Lazy Creek Vineyards and Roederer Estate. The major annual wine events are the Pinot Noir Festival held on the third weekend in May and the International Alsace Varietals Festival in late February. In addition to wine, there is a successful microbrewery, the Anderson Valley Brewing Company, on the outskirts of Boonville. Like much of Mendocino County, the hospitality industry is a natural adjunct to boutique alcohol production. Fine restaurants and quality lodging are in good supply. The pleasant natural environment and rural lifestyle attracts artists, writers, musicians and a variety of skilled crafts people. As in similar pastoral regions dependent upon a low-paid work force in the farm, hospitality and service sectors, degraded tenant housing is available for local employees, while upscale real estate inventory is generally priced beyond the typical household budget of resident unskilled laborers.

Communities

 * Boonville
 * Navarro
 * Philo
 * Yorkville

title: Anderson Valley


text:
Awashimaura

Awashimaura (粟島浦村) is a village located in Niigata Prefecture, Japan. , the village had an estimated population of 353, and a population density of 36.1 persons per km$2$. The total area of the village is 9.78 sqkm.

Geography
The village is located on Awashima Island, located in the Sea of Japan off the coast of Murakami, Niigata, to which it is connected by ferry.

Climate
Awashimaura has a humid climate (Köppen Cfa) characterized by warm, wet summers and cold winters with heavy snowfall. The average annual temperature in Awashimaura is 12.0 °C. The average annual rainfall is 2059 mm with September as the wettest month. The temperatures are highest on average in August, at around 25.1 °C, and lowest in January, at around 0.5 °C.

Demographics
Per Japanese census data, the population of Awashimaura has declined steadily over the past 50 years.

History
The island of Awashima has been inhabited since prehistoric times, and fragments of Jōmon period pottery have been found. The Asuka period general Abe no Hirafu conquered the island from its native Emishi inhabitants and brought it under the control of the imperial dynasty. During the Edo period, the island passed between Murakami Domain, Shōnai Domain and direct control by the Tokugawa Shogunate several times. During the Boshin War, the Schnell brothers offloaded weapons for Shōnai Domain at Awashima. After the Meiji restoration, the village of Asahimaura was created in 1909 as part of Iwafune District, Niigata Prefecture. The epicentre of the 1964 Niigata earthquake was near Awashima, and many of the buildings in Awashimaura were damaged or destroyed.

Economy
The main industries of Awashimaura are seasonal tourism and commercial fishing.

Education
The village has two schools, Awashimaura Village Elementary School and Awashimaura Village Junior High School. There are also programs for study abroad and visiting students.

Sea

 * Awashima Kisen Ferry
 * Iwafune (Murakami) - Uchiura (Awashimaura)

title: Awashimaura


text:
Talk:March (territory)

Untitled
Someone posted This article should be split into multiple articles accessible from a disambiguation page.

The point here is conversely, to draw together these various usages of "marches," some of them in forms that aren't superficially recognizable. Breaking up Wikipedia articles until the fragments bear no coherence actually loses inforemation. Compare "holistic".

--Wetman 04:48, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I was looking for something in this article about Mars, the Roman god of war. I had thought (mistakenly) that military titles like Marquis, Mark, etc. derived from the name of Mars, the Roman god of war. It might help to identify this as a misconception.

And for those who wonder about the connection between the modern English word "mark" and "the Proto-Indo-European root *mereg-, meaning 'edge, boundary'" mentioned in this article, there's an interesting etymology for the word "mark" in Random House Webster's Unabridged Dictionary, 1999: [1375–1425; late ME marchen < MF march(i)er, OF marchier to tread, move < Frankish *markōn presumably, to mark, pace out (a boundary); see MARK1].

--ScottS 17:39, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

March of Azerbaijan
The term March in March of Azerbaijan is referring to a march as in: 1.	to walk with regular and measured tread, as soldiers on parade; advance in step in an organized body.

Hedmark
In this article, the Norse meaning of Heiðmörk is given as "the march of heath", while in the article on Hedmark, the Heið part is said to come from the heiðnir, a Germanic tribe in the region. I don't know which one is correct, but this inconsistency ought perhaps to be corrected? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hinakana (talk • contribs) 11:07, 26 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Rather, it should all be rewritten with reliable references. "Inconsistencies" like these may reflect a real lack of knowledge or certainty, either among the laypeople writing here or also among professionals. Both versions here may be guesswork, for example. 83.253.28.222 (talk) 20:20, 10 April 2014 (UTC)

Balkans section
I must say that military frontier to which a link is made refering to balkans is totaly incorrect. Not only that none of the military frontiers listed in the article was not on the balkans peninsula, but these military frontiers actually divided central europe from the balkans (being located to the north of balkans). The same border applies even today as border the balkan peninsula. Note that these military frontiers were part of Austria-Hungary while the balkans was under turkish occupation.Hammer of Habsburg (talk) 22:25, 18 February 2010 (UTC)

British Isles
Daicaregos (talk) 09:40, 19 November 2010 (UTC) Daicaregos (talk) 09:27, 19 November 2010 (UTC)

Ireland
Further information has been added about the March in Ireland. As it's unrelated to the March in either Scotland or Wales, I've placed it in its own section. Daicaregos (talk) 16:50, 20 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That's a problem though, when considering using British Isles. By using BI as a section heading, the island of Ireland would be grouped with Great Britain, Isle of Man & Channel Islands. GoodDay (talk) 16:00, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * As I say, the information about the March in Ireland is unrelated to the March in either Scotland or Wales. They should be in separate sections. Daicaregos (talk) 17:02, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree. The Welsh and Scottish marches were created on the borders between two countries (or kingdoms: Wales/England, Scotland/England). The Irish marches did not border England as they were confined solely on the island of Ireland.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:33, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * If one section called Ireland, then the other would have to be called Great Britain. GoodDay (talk) 19:51, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The point is, all the mentioned marches are in the British Isles and they do, to a certain extent, relate to a shared history within the islands. It's a reasonable grouping. Why not put sub-headings in if you want? LemonMonday    Talk   20:15, 24 November 2010 (UTC)
 * The purpose behind the Welsh and Scottish Marches was to have barons, acting in the King of England's interest, erect castles along the borders and provide garrisons to protect England from an invasion by the Welsh and Scots. Note I say protect England. In fact, Welsh Marcher barons were semi-autonomous with the King's writ rarely "extending beyond the Wye". They often rebelled against the English kings as in the case of the Despenser War in 1321-1322. The Irish marches only bordered the Irish Pale which was not England but rather the centre of English administration in Ireland. Not quite the same thing, LemonMonday.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 10:42, 25 November 2010 (UTC)

Jeanne, I have to raise this again here. Only 6 days ago, you told us confidently that there were no such thing as marches in Ireland. Now you appear not to realise that Ireland was ruled by kings from England at this time to a large extent, and then reducing. The marches were therefore between England and the various "Hibernian" tribes. Same peoples, same cultures etc.

I asked you what you knew about ths subject and the references I offered this discussion. Did you read them? --LevenBoy (talk) 17:11, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Have you a source which says the name Marches was used for medieval Ireland in the same context as the Welsh and Scottish Marches? Oh and I was aware that Henry II claimed Ireland and subsequent English kings sent justiciars and and empowered Norman-Irish nobles to enforce this claim. We are talking about marches and not the Pale, which was the centre of English rule, not an extension or proxy of England!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:50, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * This is getting away from the point, which is that Ireland is part of the British Isles; those islands with a complex and shared history. That shared history, and culture, whether or not it relates directly to Pales, Marches or much else, is a good enough reason to group these subjects under the heading of British Isles. I fail to see why a source is needed, other than one which confirms the countries in question are actually in the British Isles. LemonMonday    Talk   18:13, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * That may well be your point, however it is not the point of either Wikipedia at large, or the March article. Fmph (talk) 18:22, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Not sure what you mean - are you saying that Wikipedia does not countenance the fact that Ireland is part of the British Isles? LemonMonday    Talk   18:29, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * What I mean is that the question of whether Ireland is part of BI or not is irrelevant to this article, this discussion, and the encyclopaedia at large. Fmph (talk) 21:57, 25 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Indeed, everybody knows Ireland is a part of the British Isles, thus the dispute over the term. GoodDay (talk) 22:00, 26 November 2010 (UTC)

Section headings of United Kingdom, Ireland
These headings need to be re-merged & re-named 'British Isles'. Then we can go through this mix-up, one step at a time. GoodDay (talk) 23:01, 23 November 2010 (UTC)

Square bracket section
I put a square bracket section into a thing because it disputes a statement in the intro without a reference for it and makes the intro unclear. If anyone objects, please talk to me. Manytexts (talk) 08:50, 29 December 2011 (UTC)

Non-homeland territory!
The article currently says: "In contrast to a mutually agreed upon demilitarised buffer zone, a march is a non-homeland territory fortified for defence against a rival power."

How were for example the Scottish Marches "a march is a non-homeland territory fortified for defence against a rival power" or the Welsh Marches non-homeland territory?

The definition here needs adjustment so I am going to change it to:
 * Marches was a medieval and early modern name for a border areas of a realm where different laws applied for defence of the border against hostile incursions, or to regulate border trade or both.

BTW the last references I have seen to Marches are in Germany and Italy during the Napoleonic Wars, specifically in some of the peace treaties eg Final Act of the Congress of Vienna/General Treaty (9 June 1815) see for example Germany Art. XXXI "A second from the Old March, through Gihorn and Noustadt to Minden."; and Italy Art. CIII "The Marches, with Camerino, and their dependencies...".

-- PBS (talk) 21:12, 2 August 2014 (UTC)

Finnmark / Finnmork?
Shouldn't Finnmark be expanded upon? Because the medieval Finnmark was much larger than the modern day province in Norway. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Norway_1020_AD.png/640px-Norway_1020_AD.png --77.222.163.148 (talk) 14:41, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:March (territory)


text:
Iwafune District, Niigata

Niigata Iwafune-gun.png:

]]
 * yellow - areas formerly within the district borders during the early Meiji period
 * green - current borders

Iwafune (岩船郡) is a district located in Niigata Prefecture, Japan.

As of July 1, 2019, the district has an estimated population of 5,644 with a density of 18.2 persons per km2. The total area is 309.39 km2.

Municipalities
The district consists of two villages:

 * Awashimaura
 * Sekikawa

History
Iwafune's name is from the Ancient Japanese Ritsuryo System. In 1878, when Iwafune District launched, the district covered all six towns listed above and the current city of Murakami, and the district areas has been the same since the founding. The district seat was located at Murakami-Honmachi (now part of the current city of Murakami).

After the district lost Murakami in 1954, the district areas remain the same as until April 1, 2008. There had been some talks to merge with the city of Murakami but the city of Murakami killed the merger because of the city's new name. However, the talks was finally settled.

Recent mergers

 * On April 1, 2008 - The towns of Sanpoku and Arakawa, and the villages of Asahi and Kamihayashi were merged into the expanded city of Murakami.

title: Iwafune District, Niigata


text:
Talk:Carbon black

Carcinogenity of carbon black
The article states: It is known to be carcinogenic and harmful to the respiratory tract if inhaled, because it contains large amounts of Polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons.

Carbon Black MSDS shows that ''In 1995 IARC concluded, “There is inadequate evidence in humans for the carcinogenicity of carbon black.” Based on rat inhalation studies IARC concluded that there is, “sufficient evidence in experimental animals for the carcinogenicity of carbon black,” IARC’s overall evaluation was that, “Carbon black is possibly carcinogenic to humans (Group 2B)”. This conclusion was based on IARC’s guidelines, which require such a classification if one species exhibits carcinogenicity in two or more studies.''

Columbian Chemicals MSDS is an example of an MSDS for a global supplier.

One problem with linking to such an MSDS is that it inevitably is a commercial site.

Other organisations cover the cacinogenicity of carbon black as well:

The American Conference of Governmental Industrial Hygienists (ACGIH) classifies carbon black as A4, Not Classifiable as a Human Carcinogen;

The German MAK Commission classifies carbon black as a suspect carcinogen category 3B;

The National Toxicology Program (NTP) has not listed carbon black as a carcinogen;

The Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has not listed carbon black as a carcinogen;

The National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health (NIOSH) criteria document (1978)on carbon black recommends only carbon blacks with polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbon contamination levels greater than 0.1% (1,000 parts per million) be considered suspect carcinogens; and

''The Office of Environmental Health Hazard Assessment (OEHHA) of the California Environmental Protection Agency added “carbon black (airborne, unbound particles of respirable size)” (CAS No. 1333-86-4) to the Proposition 65 substances list on February 21, 2003. This listing, triggered by the “authoritative body” mechanism in the California Code of Regulations, was based solely on IARC's 1996 reclassification of carbon black as a Group 2B carcinogen.''

Taken from carbon black a users guide, which is a publication of the International Carbon Black assosciation. The member companies of the ICBA are Cabot Corporation, Cancarb Limited, Columbian Chemicals Company, Continental Carbon Company, Degussa Corporation, Degussa Engineered Carbons, Sid Richardson Carbon Company, and The Birla Group.

Its my opinion that the ICBA publication is the best way to cite relevant saefty information in a way that doesnt directly promote one manufacturer over another.

The 'known to be carcinogenic' in the article should also be downgraded to a 'suspect' or 'possible' carcinogen, but some discussion first is merited first with others. Catwhoorg 13:47, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

 * A new study was just published in the eLifeSciences journal that links nanoparticulate carbon black from tobacco smoke to emphysema, and a companion study in another journal describes the mechanism of damage.

 * Not sure how to best rewrite the section to incorporate this information.
 * Crayz9000 (talk) 16:04, 11 October 2015 (UTC)

Merge with Black Carbon
Strong Oppose carbon black is an engineered nano-material produced under very controlled conditions. Black carbon is impure and a catch all term. Catwhoorg 21:23, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Black carbon has nothing to do with carbon black. Can someone take the merge suggestion header off before it starts confusing readers? 24.235.229.183 01:14, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Please take off the merge suggestion. The use of the term carbon black for black carbon is a mistake. --Gami 00:47, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Any chance that we could get a section explaining the difference? I feel like there is a high chance of people being confused here. 2_of_8 (talk) 18:25, 7 May 2010 (UTC)

Removal of commercial site link
My last edit to the main page was the removal of a commercial link that was effectively an advert. Lets keep the article encylopedic and commercial free as far as we can. Catwhoorg 13:59, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Update "Common Uses" section to include food coloring?
I was surprised there was no mention on this page of the use of carbon black as a food coloring agent, as I linked to this page from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Licorice_candy. Can someone who knows better how to use Wiki possibly add this at some point along with other foods it may be used this way in? (Sorry, no username, this is my first edit, I'll go register shortly)

Conductivity in "Surface Chemistry" section
Can someone knowledgable comment on whether conductivity in this section refers to electrical or thermal conductivity?

RTKfan (talk) 16:48, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Needs actual photographs
There's really no point in telling about high surface tension-to-volume ratio. People want to see it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dennisjiewenliu (talk • contribs) 01:55, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

The photo of the man is not useful, certainly not as the first picture. I wanted to see a sample of the material in a petri dish. The caption of the picture of the man needs to explain why he's there. --Jra (talk) 11:52, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

 * I found the photo useful as an easy-to-understand illustration that carbon black is a useful industrial material. The article can say that, but it's much more effective to show it. If better images turn up we can of course use them, and move this image to lower in the article; but in the meantime it's the best image we have, so let's keep it. Eubulides (talk) 05:07, 27 May 2009 (UTC)

 * I agree with Jra. The photo is supremely awesome and bad-ass but I don't see how it is relevant enough to be the lead photo. --Thomasdelbert (talk) 20:28, 17 May 2012 (UTC)

Percentage Usage
The article states 70% is used in tyres. Then later that 20% is used in rubber hoses, belts and other products, the balence used in ink. Should that read 80% (70% tyres, 10% hose belts etc, 20% ink and other) or is it to read that 70% is tyres, 20% other items, leaving 10% for ink etc. Certainly needs some calrification there i feel?

Global useage is about 70% in tyres, 20% in other rubber goods, and 10% combined in pigment uses in inks, coatings and plastics.Catwhoorg (talk) 14:59, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Soot, Black Carbon, Carbon black
I think that we need to more clearly differentiate between this article, soot and Black carbon. I agree with the previous consensus that this article and Black carbon probably cover different enough topics that they should remain separate. However, I think that we need a hat note that more clearly distinguishes the topics. I also think that soot may be redundant and most of should be merged to black carbon. However, some people will be looking for information on the material which lines their chimney after a fire. So soot could cover that or be a disambiguation page. Finally I think that the lead of Black carbon needs to be broadened so that it mentions other aspects of BC in the atmosphere.

In summary the new articles would be:
 * Carbon black. As at present but with a lead that clearly states it is about an industrial product.
 * Black carbon. Expanded to cover all aspects of particulate elemental carbon in the atmosphere.
 * Soot. A disambiguation page or a page covering the deposits of elemental carbon in chimneys, flues etc.

I would welcome some other ideas on this and I will post a note about this on the other two articles talk pages.--NHSavage (talk) 13:12, 7 October 2012 (UTC)

 * I agree with this. Shaded0 (talk) 06:59, 14 February 2013 (UTC)

 * I notice that while the lead states that carbon black is different from soot, having more surface area and less polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons, the "Pigment" section states that carbon black "is known by a variety of names, each of which reflects a traditional method for producing carbon black:" including "Lamp black was traditionally produced by collecting soot, also known as lampblack, from oil lamps." If carbon black is not soot, this isn't correct.  Should it say something more like "... a traditional source of black carbon pigments"?  Wombat140 (talk) 17:22, 14 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Would it be possible to add the specification limits used to differentiate between carbon black and other forms of carbon (e.g. surface area....). When is carbon "carbon black" and when is it something else? — Preceding unsigned comment added by HeSeng (talk • contribs) 06:33, 2 May 2014 (UTC)

 * The requests by HeSeng are reasonable, but probably difficult to do in practice. Surface area, for example, depends in the case of bulk materials on the heating temperature, the composition and even the structure of the biomass or fuel source, the heating atmosphere and heating time.  Also, in the case of particulate matter, the surface area increases as the size of the microscopic particles decreases (very small particles like pm2.5 have very large surface area).  All of these materials have some similarity chemically and often the choice of the name of the material depends on its method of generation or source, e.g,. a wood fire, a combustion chamber or furnace, automobile and diesel exhaust etc.  While "black carbon" is something of a catch all term, 'carbon black' is more specific in that it is prepared by especially designed reactors for commercial purposes.  Another catch all term is simply "carbonaceous material", which tends to grab everything that is a product or residue of incomplete combustion containing a significant component of refractory carbon in the form of very large networks of fused aromatic rings (PAH's).   "Black carbon" often is mentioned in terms of microscopic particulate matter in the atmosphere, it also can refer to the carbonaceous material in soil, whether or not it originated from the atmosphere.  Nevertheless, my comments are meant to suggest that the inclusion of some descriptive definitions of these materials would be a very useful addition to the encyclopedic commentary because it is seldom presented anywhere else.  There may be a good unified discussion in the literature somewhere, but I suspect that the relevant material is scattered around many sources in disparate places depending on whether these substances are discussed in combustion, atmospheric chemistry, chemical, engineering, environmental journals, textbooks etc.  It can be done.  Tachyon 00:32, 22 October 2014 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Janopus (talk • contribs)

I came to the same conclusion. I tried to link this page with the Dutch one (about "roet"), but that is not possible as there is just one page for both soot and black carbon. This is very confusing. I also found scientific work pronounced the difference between these two. Josbert Lonnee (talk) 22:34, 29 December 2018 (UTC)

Carbon nanoparticles
Carbon nanoparticles redirects here. Is this correct? There is no mention of nanoparticles in the article. Biscuittin (talk) 12:28, 3 December 2015 (UTC)

That is very true. I have an article here about the use of "Black Carbon nanoparticles" being used for converting sunlight energy into heat (and it needs a home): https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170619165423.htm Twillisjr (talk) 06:07, 13 August 2017 (UTC)

Opening sentence
The opening sentence is directly ripped from this website http://www.reade.com/products/carbon-black

"Carbon Black Description A black, amorphous, carbon pigment produced by the thermal decomposition of natural hydrocarbons. There are three different types (furnace, channel, and lamp black).

Carbon black is a material produced by the incomplete combustion of heavy petroleum products such as FCC tar, coal tar, ethylene cracking tar, and a small amount from vegetable oil. Carbon black is a form of amorphous carbon that has a high surface area to volume ratio, although its surface area to volume ratio is low compared to activated carbon. It is dissimilar to soot because of its much higher surface area to volume ratio and significantly less (negligible and non-bioavailable) PAH content. Carbon black is used as a pigment and reinforcement in rubber and plastic products."

The vegetable oil claim is not readily backed up by, for example, the EPA's description of the process https://www3.epa.gov/ttnchie1/ap42/ch06/final/c06s01.pdf — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.61.40.178 (talk) 09:36, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

CARBON BLACK PARTICLE SIZING IS WRONG
ASTM D1765-95 uses primary particle size to classify carbon black. The chart displayed has wrong values and overlapping ranges. More currently D1765-96 utilizes Nitrogen Surface area, not particle size. I suggest the new classification be displayed next to the corrected data and identified as Nitrogen surface area and the primary particle size data labeled as such with the addition of historic data.

Thanks!! Frank

Black carbon pigment
We used to mix it in a Banbury machine to make polyethylene plastics, the same as which colours the dashboard of lots of vehicles. 188.31.165.146 (talk) 21:43, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

Use in Batteries

 * This seems to be a common use case
 * Quick Search lead me to find these links:
 * https://www.orioncarbons.com/batteries
 * https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/carbon-black-in-lead-acid-battery-market-to-register-a-growth-of-usd-116-06-mn---technavio-301631875.html
 * https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlelanding/2015/ra/c5ra19056h
 * Should this be added to the page? If so how?  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Eric Lotze (talk • contribs) 12:28, 27 September 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: CHEM 300
— Assignment last updated by Tiff592 (talk) 00:21, 27 October 2022 (UTC)

Use in lithium-ion batteries and other small updates to the page
I was thinking of adding a section talking about carbon black's uses in lithium-ion batteries. More specifically, the main ideas/topics that I wish to include:

1) That carbon black is a common conductive additive for lithium ion batteries thanks to their small particle sizes and large specific surface areas https://doi.org/10.1149%2F2.0401503jes and https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jpowsour.2021.230342

2) That unlike graphite, carbon black has crystal lattices that are further apart which promote Li+ intercalation which allows for more pathways for lithium storage

Sources for this point: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jpowsour.2021.230342

3) That carbon black's low density allows for a large volume of it to be dispersed so that its conductive effects are applied evenly throughout the battery.

Sources for this point: https://doi.org/10.1149/2.0761507jes and https://doi.org/10.1016/S0378-7753(03)00250-7

4) That carbon black's random arrangement of crystals improves battery stability because it decreases the potential barrier for lithium intercalation

Sources for this point: https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jpowsour.2021.230342

5) The chemical surface structure of carbon black depicting functional groups that can decompose electrolyte and therefore affect the life cycle of batteries. Additionally, to also discuss how to mitigate the functional groups' affect on batteries.

Sources for this point: https://doi.org/10.1149%2F2.0401503jes

Apart from adding a section talking about carbon black's involvement in lithium ion batteries, some small changes/updates to the article I wish to make are:

1) adding an additional source to this sentence "However, carbon black is widely used as a model compound for diesel soot for diesel oxidation experiments.[2][better source needed]" I'm thinking of adding this source to help this statement: https://doi.org/10.1021/acs.langmuir.5b02017 Additionally, I want to update the existing source here with its actual DOI instead of a PDF. The actual DOI is: https://doi.org/10.1080/00102202.2012.664010

2) To update the common uses section to include lithium-ion batteries and mention briefly that its low cost and conductive effects make it a common additive. Mwongz (talk) 18:39, 16 November 2022 (UTC)

How produced?
The article needs more than just the 2 words "incomplete combustion" in the lede to describe the commercial manufacturing technique(s). Casey (talk) 03:19, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Carbon black


text:
TECO

TECO or Teco may refer to:

Organisations

 * Taipei Economic and Cultural Representative Office, a Taiwan representative office alternative to an embassy
 * TECO Maritime, an international producer and supplier of cleaning systems for ships
 * TECO Electric and Machinery, a Taiwanese company in electric motor, electric appliances and other businesses worldwide
 * TECO Energy, an American electrical power company
 * Technical Education Center Osceola, a secondary school in unincorporated Osceola County, Florida, US
 * Telecooperation Office, a German research group in the field of pervasive Computing at the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology

Other uses

 * TECO (text editor) ("Text Editor and Corrector", originally Tape Editor and Corrector), an early computer text editor
 * TECO Line Streetcar, a streetcar line in Tampa, Florida, US
 * Teco pottery, produced by American Terra Cotta Tile and Ceramic Company
 * Teco (footballer) (born 1982), Brazilian footballer Wender Coelho da Silva

title: TECO


text:
Vermilion (disambiguation)

Vermilion is a red pigment and color.

Vermilion, Vermillion, or Vermillon may also refer to:

Communities

 * Vermilion, Alberta, Canada, a town
 * Vermilion, Illinois, United States, a village in Illinois, United States
 * Vermillion, Kansas, United States, a city
 * Vermilion, Michigan, an unincorporated community
 * Vermillion, Minnesota, United States, a city
 * Vermilion, Ohio, United States, a city
 * Vermillion, South Dakota, United States, a city

Counties, parishes, and townships

 * Vermilion County, Illinois, United States
 * Vermillion County, Indiana, United States
 * Vermilion Parish, Louisiana, United States
 * Vermilion Township (disambiguation), United States and Canada

Bodies of water

 * Gulf of California, also known as the Vermilion Sea
 * Lake Vermilion (disambiguation)
 * Little Vermilion River (disambiguation)
 * Vermilion Lakes, lakes in Alberta, Canada
 * Vermillion River (disambiguation)
 * Vermillion Creek, Wyoming, United States

Other places

 * Vermilion Cliffs, Arizona and Utah, United States
 * Vermilion Point, the site of a US Life Saving Station in Michigan on the south shore of Lake Superior
 * Vermilion Range (disambiguation)

Entertainment

 * Sword of Vermilion, a 1989 Sega Genesis game known in Japan as Vermilion
 * Noel Vermillion, main heroine of the BlazBlue video game series
 * Vermilion, a character in the Battle Arena Toshinden fighting game series
 * Vermillion (The Three O'Clock album), 1988
 * Vermillion (Simone Simons album), 2024
 * Vermilion (Continental Drifters album), 1999
 * "Vermilion" (song), a 2004 song by American metal band Slipknot
 * Vermillion (Helix), a dark science fantasy comic book series published by DC Comics
 * The Vermillion (Ninjago), characters in Ninjago
 * The Vermillion, a group of Androids who speak for Admiral Fukyama in the second season of the television show Legion on FX

Businesses

 * Vermilion Energy, a natural gas company
 * Vermilion Partners Ltd, a boutique China-based investment bank

People

 * Vermillion (surname), a list of people
 * Vermilion tribe, a historic Native American group in Illinois

Other uses

 * USS Vermillion, several US Navy vessels
 * Vermillion Institute, Hayesville, Ohio, United States, a co-educational school from the 1840s to c. 1929
 * Vermilion, an imprint of Ebury Publishing (a division of Random House)
 * Vermilion border, the boundary between the lip and the surrounding skin
 * Vermilion flycatcher, a bird

title: Vermilion (disambiguation)


text:
Talk:Maccabees

Article merged: See old talk-page here

Hammer?
This article claims "Maccabees" means "hammer" but "hammer" is writen "פטיש" and "Macabees" is writen "מכבי". Any thoughts? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Alessio.aguirre (talk • contribs) 13:47, 2011 November 2 (UTC)

 * "Macabee" should in fact be written "מקבי" and the word you're looking for is "מקבת" which is a war hammer. Poliocretes (talk) 13:58, 2 November 2011 (UTC)

Maccabees v. Hanukkah
This article contradicts the one on chanukah which says that, according to the Bible, the Seleucid king did want to Hellenize the Jews and rob them of their rights. What really happened? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.108.210.62 (talk) 05:02, 2004 July 28 (UTC)

 * Who knows what really happened? The Maccabees article states that apart from the books 1 and 2 Maccabees (which are not part of the Hebrew Bible), there is no corroborating evidence of Hellenization. Instead we have Josephus writing about Jewish Priests & Greek Politics:
 * Under attack by the latter, Menelaus and the sons of Tobias retreated to Antiochus (IV) and informed him that they wished to abandon their native (Jewish) laws and corresponding (priestly) civic order for those of the king and a Greek civic order. ... And abandoning all their other native (Jewish) customs, they copied the practices of other nations.

 * Josephus also writes that in 169 BC Antiochus looted the Temple and left having "committed murder and spoken with great arrogance", and also:
 * And many of the Jews followed the things the (Syrian) king ordered, some voluntarily but also through fear of paying the proclaimed penalty. But the noblest and best-born persons did not heed him but held their native customs to count more than the penalty he threatened for those who did not obey. And because of this they were abused each day. And they died, subject to bitter tortures.

 * I could not find any mention of a sudden change of policy, so that sentence could be rewritten. Maybe both articles could indicate more clearly which sources say what? -Wikibob | Talk 12:07, 2004 Jul 28 (UTC)

Moved some paragraphs
I have moved some paragraphs of the later dynasty to the Hasmonean page, where I reckon they fit better in. Also, I added the difference between the two terms Maccabee and Hasmonean. --Sponsianus 09:27, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Disambiguation
Maccabees is going to require a specific disambiguation page rather than a disambig paragraph at the top of this article. There is now an up and coming Band in the UK which shares the name and it's only a matter of time before they get their own article. Unless anyone has any objections to Maccabees (disambiguation). I'll set to it this evening. Y control 09:47, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Objection to the use of this image
I object to the use of the image containing the map of the Hasmonean Kingdom set against the background of the so-called present-day borders of Israel. The image is also being used in the articles on Hanukkah, on Jewish history, on Judas Maccabeus, on Hasmonean and on the Golan Heights. But these are not the internationally recognised borders of Israel. The image suggests that the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, the West Bank and East Jerusalem are integral parts of the state of Israel, whereas this is subject to international disputes. To present these borders as undisputed facts, is to lessen the quality of information provided by Wikipedia. I therefore decided to remove this image. In a (very swift) reaction by a Wikipedia administrator, he accused me of "blatant vandalism". That is absurd. I'm in the habit of using Wikipedia as a source of factual, unbiased information. Ocasionally, I make a small contribution to try to enhance the factual accuracy of an article. To enhance an article is not vandalism. It is what I thought Wikipedia was all about. There are undoubtedly many images available that could be used in these articles that depict the borders of Israel, while clearly marking the disputed Palestinian Territories and the Golan Heights as disputed entities. Why would an unbiased encyclopedia, out of of all the available options, choose an image that is provided by the Israeli Foreign Ministry? If it is Wikipedia's standard policy to discourage user participation in this agressive way, then in my view, it fails in its stated purpose. --82.215.24.131 13:39, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
 * please do not double post. you have left this comment at talk:Golan Heights, Talk:Hasmonean, Talk:Judas Maccabeus, Talk:Maccabees, Talk:Hanukkah, and Talk:Jewish history. I have moved it to Image talk:Hasmonean-map.jpg. Jon513 14:13, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks for opening that Image talk page and for your comment. But I would also have to disagree with you on multiple postings. There is a good reason to place multiple postings. Many users only view one of the involved pages. If they wish to see whether there are differences of opinion on the article they are reading, they have a right to a complete overview. Now if they would happen to forget to click on the image itself (and subsequently on its Image talk page), but instead would only view this discussion page, they would be denied that complete overview, if there were no multiple postings.--82.215.24.131 17:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The image on this page does not depict the modern state of Israel. It depicts the ancient Hasmonean Kingdom. The kingdom included modern Israel, the Palestinian territories, and parts of Jordan and Syria too.  There is nothing political about it - you've just misunderstood the image.
 * — Preceding unsigned comment added by Itzar (talk • contribs) 18:44, 2007 February 6 (UTC)

Judah v Judas Maccabeus
To my recollection, Judah and Judas are the same person? There should be internal consistency within the article - any thoughts? - TMac 00:04, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Huge misconception
Um yeah, Jews do not celebrate Chanukah because of the victory, they celebrate because of the menorah oil burning for 8 days instead of one. Jews do not celebrate war whatsoever. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.10.51.87 (talk) 06:08, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

joke map
I'm sorry. that map. is that serious? it presents a hook-nosed face, dribbling.

I don't thing ancient Israel looked like that. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.229.150.107 (talk) 01:31, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Merge proposal
This article is almost identical to Maccabean Revolt. I propose they be merged. Marshall46 (talk) 10:54, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

 * I have edited this article so that it now contains all the material that was in Maccabean Revolt but not here; I've also added a bit. This article is now the definitive one and the merge should be to this one. I'm not sure how to use the merge template so I'd appreciate it if someone more experienced could do it.  Marshall46 (talk) 19:47, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Merged. Marshall46 (talk) 15:55, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

"National self-determination"
The article says that, "as the Maccabees realized how successful they had been, many wanted to continue the revolt as a war of national self-determination." It also refers to "the war of national liberation". I suggest that "national self-determination" and "national liberation" are anachronisms, reading back concepts from the 20th century to the 2nd century BCE. The article also tends to overstate the degree of autonomy achieved by the Maccabeans relative to the Seleucid empire. It would be more accurate and more consistent with modern sources to say that, having won the freedom to practice the Jewish religion and more autonomy for Judea, the Maccabeans continued fighting to win more territory. Marshall46 (talk) 14:59, 10 April 2009 (UTC)

 * No-one has objected, so I'm going to edit accordingly. Marshall46 (talk) 22:11, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

 * The anachronistic phrase "national liberation movement" (which is more appropriate to the 20th century) still remains in the opening paragraph, but I am not sure what to replace it with. "Army"?  "Guerrilla army"? "Group of warriors"?  Suggestions, please.  Marshall46 (talk) 09:12, 29 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I have used the phrase "Jewish rebel army" instead Marshall46 (talk) 16:13, 5 August 2009 (UTC)

Useful for the article?

 * The Legacy of the Maccabees - The Maccabee Rebellion

 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.205.205 (talk) 17:31, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

"At the beginning of the reign of Antiochus IV Epiphanes, a conflict broke out between two members of the High Priest Levite family. The conflict resulted in High Priest Onias III going to Egypt. There he set up a new temple at Heliopolis northeast of what is now Cairo. This temple functioned until 70 C.E. when the Romans destroyed it along with the one in Jerusalem." Is there another source for this? the article doesn't mention.

 * Austerlitz -- 88.75.205.205 (talk) 17:56, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

 * It is mentioned in a paper in the Journal of Semitic Studies. I think it belongs in the article on Onias III, not in the article on Macabbeees.  Please add there if you wish.  Marshall46 (talk) 16:02, 31 July 2009 (UTC)

Date format
The date format has been changed back and forth between BC and BCE. Wikipedia has no preference for one over the other, but I suggest that BCE is more appropriate for this article. BCE/CE is becoming increasingly common in historical and academic writing and it is considered to be more neutral in religious terms than BC/AD. BCE/CE stand for "Before the Common Era/Common Era". BC/AD stand for "Before Christ/Anno Domini (in the year or Our Lord)". As this article is about events in Jewish history, the former is prefererable, so I have changed the dates back again. If any editor wants to undo this, they should explain their reasons here. Marshall46 (talk) 18:38, 25 September 2009 (UTC)

 * WP:ERA prohibits changing the established era style in an article "unless there are reasons specific to its content" (emphasis added), and requires prior discussion to seek consensus for the change. Hertz1888 (talk) 14:13, 5 November 2013 (UTC)

Combatants
I have made changes in the summary box.

I have listed the combatants as Jews and Seleucid Empire. Although the Maccabees did attack Hellenized Jews, the latter were not combatants in the sense that they did not fight the Maccabees. I have made some changes to "territory" and "results".

In the intro. I have changed Coele-Syria to Israel. This is, of course, not the state of Israel, but it is the land of Israel. That makes more sense than Coele-Syria.

Marshall46 (talk) 17:37, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

Spelling and Grammar
In looking over the references I noticed that the spelling of Victor Tchrikover's name is wrong (spelled as "Tcherikover"). I'm new to editing wikis and don't know how to change it myself. Can someone take care of it? -- Moshe (talk) 19:00, 20 December 2009 (UTC)

 * It's spelled "Tcherikover" on the cover of his book. Marshall46 (talk) 09:40, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Relationship between Judea and Seleucids
The Maccabees are now described as "a Jewish rebel army who took control of parts of the Land of Israel, which had been a client state of the Seleucid Empire." I agree with Crotalus Horridus that we need to find a non-POV way of describing what happened. As I understand it, Judea was part of the Seleucid empire but not directly ruled by the Seleucid king. It was governed by the High Priest, who was appointed by the king. I think it is best to describe it as a "client state", though I am open to suggestions. Marshall46 (talk) 09:36, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * I think your wording is probably the best choice. Thanks for the suggestion. *** Crotalus *** 17:08, 11 June 2010 (UTC)
 * Tcherikover says Antiochus III appointed a governor. There were taxes but tax exemptions. Hellenism was promoted but the traditions of the Jews were protected until Antiochus IV "Epiphenes".  Perhaps "client state" is not quite the correct phrase but I can't find a better one at the moment.  Marshall46 (talk) 09:52, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

Civil war vs. War against oppression
I have a question: If its true that "Most modern scholars argue that the king was intervening in a civil war between traditionalist Jews in the countryside and Hellenized Jews in Jerusalem," why is the rest of the content on the revolt framed as a war against foreign oppression? For example:

 * "After Antiochus issued his decrees forbidding Jewish religious practice, a rural Jewish priest from Modiin, Mattathias the Hasmonean, sparked the revolt against the Seleucid Empire by refusing to worship the Greek gods."

 * "After Mattathias' death about one year later in 166 BCE, his son Judah Maccabee led an army of Jewish dissidents to victory over the Seleucid dynasty in guerrilla warfare, which at first was directed against Jewish collaborators, of whom there were many."

Wouldn't it be incorrect to refer to the Hellenic Jews as "collaborators". They were just non-revolting Hellenic Jews. And did Mattathias spark the revolt by refusing to worship the Greek gods or by murdering the Hellenic Jew? I'm just confused on that point. johnpseudo 18:45, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Good question. The inconsistency reflects the fact that the events were probably first described as the authors of Maccabees described them, as a revolt.  Then subsequent edits brought forward the views of modern scholars.  Tcherikover (1959) says that, having reviewed the theories of modern scholars, it is not easy to explain the origins of the Maccabean wars, either as the Hellenizing drive of Antiochus or of the Jerusalem aristocracy. He does refer to class interest as a possible factor, which is not mentioned in the article.  It needs some sophisticated editing to retain a strong narrative yet still to reflect these uncertainties.  I've made some small changes.   Marshall46 (talk) 10:06, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

 * I will be adding in references to this civil war aspect of the period. Dalai lama ding dong (talk) 17:17, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

Merge proposal
I suggest this article is merged with Hasmonean which covers the same events. It is a better article than this one, drawn from more modern sources. Marshall46 (talk) 11:37, 9 November 2010 (UTC)
 * against, see comments in Hasmonean article. Poliocretes (talk) 16:17, 11 November 2010 (UTC)
 * No-one supports merging and I can see the arguments against it, so I am removing the tags. However, the overlaps should be reduced.  Marshall46 (talk) 15:46, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Roman Senate reference for footnote
I don't know how to add it, but one source for the interactions between the Maccabees and the Roman Senate are in I Maccabees 8: 17-32 (NEB). Also, I seem to recall an instructor suggesting that while this was a canny alliance to seek at the time, it brought the Jewish community to Roman attention and may have opened the back door to the later Roman hegemony over the area. If that's true it might be helpful to tie the narrative together further by mentioning it, or if not, to clarify.

Two other thoughts: It might also make sense to at least mention that the events in I and II Maccabees are at some points congruent; the article on the various books doesn't really make that clear, either. And Coele-Syria is used by the translators of some versions of the book (I'm working from the NEB at the moment but I've seen it elsewhere) so even if it's not to be used in general throughout the article, at least one reference explaining its usage might be helpful to those who run across it in this context and are trying to puzzle out the geography issues.96.237.240.126 (talk) 10:34, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Maccabees & Irish history
There is quite a large number of books, mostly it seems from the seventeenth century, written by Irish writers in Irish and Latin about the Maccabees. For instance,This Irish writer in exile in Salamanca in 1651 wrote a two-volume work on the Maccabees, with 704 pages in Volume 1 alone. This is a good summary of how the Maccabees story was used by the Catholic Irish in the seventeenth century as solace for their war, overthrow and conquest. This article could probably be improved by acknowledging such extensive traditions connected with the Maccabees. 212.129.66.130 (talk) 15:35, 15 October 2011 (UTC)

Also Maccabees and Eberhard Bethge? The essay that starts on page 31 of "Friendship and resistance: essays on Dietrich Bonhoeffer" by Bethge. The epigraph used for the essay is from from 2 Maccabees 7, and Bethge relates it to the martyrs of Nazi Germany's Plotzensee. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.141.226.90 (talk) 12:05, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Who were the Hellenists?
Uri Avnery points out that the Hellenists the Maccabees fought against were principally the Hellenistic Jews of Israel, and that their struggle was a bloody civil war:

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/the-acts-of-perfidious-traitors-throughout-jewish-history-1.388696

It is also ironic that by the time of the early Roman Empire, the struggle was over, the Hellenists had won. Hebrew was all but forgotten, the daily speech was Aramaic or Greek, the Bible was the Greek translation known as the LXX, and Greek mores and social customs prevailed; for example, reclining at table (see John 13:25). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.70.200.100 (talk) 18:20, 2011 October 24 (UTC)

Rename or split?
I think this article is mainly describing the Maccabean Revolt itself, rather than the Maccabees (the brothers of Judah). It also has a military campaignbox, and is much more weightful than the term Maccabees, who are also sufficiently described under Hasmoneans. Would you support renaming to Maccabean Revolt?Greyshark09 (talk) 22:17, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

 * In which case it would need a more detailed description of the Revolt. It has lacked that for a long time. Marshall46 (talk) 12:16, 19 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I didn't make it an official proposal, just to the reason i needed to hear more opinions. Perhaps splitting it to "Maccabees" and "Maccabean revolt" would be better. I did the same for Simko Shikak, from which i did split the Simko Shikak revolt.Greyshark09 (talk) 16:30, 19 December 2011 (UTC)

Split
The article encompasses both description of the Hasmonean leaders named "Maccabees" (the first generation of Hasmoneans) and the event in which they revolted against the Seleucid Empire, in the famous Maccabean Revolt. Like in the case of Simko Shikak, from which Simko Shikak revolt was split, i propose to split Maccabean Revolt, from this article. In addition the article Maccabean Revolt had already existed, but was merged into Maccabees without a proper discussion and reasoning.Greyshark09 (talk) 19:05, 26 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There's no reason for a split, the individual Maccabean leaders already have dedicated pages and yet another split would serve nothing except to create yet another page for what is practically the same subject. As I've already mentioned in a previous disucssion on this page, what we should do is dedicate this article to the revolt itself and remove the details about Hasmonean rule to the Hasmoneans page. Poliocretes (talk) 20:24, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * There is no easy way to do that, but the fact is Maccabean Revolt is a notable event to have its own page. This page was previously merged with Maccabean Revolt in 2010, without a proper discussion, so i just propose to revert this. Maccabees can later be made a disambiguation page if you like to point to individual Maccabee leaders.Greyshark09 (talk) 21:15, 27 December 2011 (UTC)
 * I'm with Poliocretes. Leave as is. --Nemonoman (talk) 22:46, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Leave it as it is but add material on the revolt. Marshall46 (talk) 16:28, 28 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Concensus to leave as is. Split tag removed. Op47 (talk) 17:03, 3 March 2012 (UTC)

Capital offence
The claim that possession of the Torah was a capital offence is not substantiated by the source of 1 Mac 60-61. Unless a source can be provided I will remove it.Dalai lama ding dong (talk) 17:13, 12 February 2012 (UTC)

 * 1 Mac 57. Marshall46 (talk) 15:17, 15 February 2012 (UTC)

Etymology
One should not mistake the understanding of the proper etymology and spelling is not merely an academic exercise. A whole spate of material have been published, both in English and Hebrew, to discuss the 'Maccabees' surname etymology. Hatam Sofer attempts to show that correct to the name Machabee. We should briefly discuss here in the TalkPage the name Machabee and their common variations in Greek, Latim and than sefaradi ladino. I added on the beginning of the article, variations of Maccabees in Latin, and Sefaradi-Ladino, also with Latim root that is important to extend the knowledge of this name-surname. Levin, in his Mi-Boker ad Erev, cites explanations including that if makbas means a hammer it is not a large hammer but instead a small one used by a blacksmith. It could also be possible that, because of the extensive collection of Pagan Greek statues and idolatrous shrines that had sprouted up throughout Judea and the surrounding area, Judas may have also been dubbed the 'Hammer' due to his propensity to smash any idol or statue which he encountered into as many pieces as possible.What is certain is that Machabees has it’s Latim variations as Machabi, and Machado (from latim ‘marculatum’ that means ‘Hammer’. Levin rejects Munks explanation that Machabee refers to Hammer as used as an honorific for Charles Martel - Martel the Hammer - for his victory over the Muslims between Tours and Poitiers.JewishResearcher (talk) 01:16, 18 March 2012 (UTC)

Greek Games
While Hellenism did much to erode and seduce the Jewish culture, I think it notably skewed to state or imply (as this article does) that Greek sports were totally against the indigenous culture of Judea. Did Judeans not play sports in their spare time? Of course they did! The content concerning Greek sports upon this page must be clarified. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.62.26.18 (talk) 22:46, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * As far as I can tell, the blame isn't really being placed with the sports. The problem was not the sports themselves, but the cultural atmosphere that surrounded them. Among Hellenist Jews, circumcision became less and less common as they assimilated to Greek culture. The lack of foreskin, which was very visible in the Hellenist/gentile atmosphere of the gymnasium, was seen as non-masculine, and sometimes also as immodest, as many ancient cultures considered that a man was not truly naked unless his foreskin was retracted. To solve the problem of fitting into Hellenist culture, many Jews underwent primitive procedures to restore the foreskin, and a likely greater number discontinued the practice of circumcising their sons. In summary, it wasn't the mere fact that the Jews participated in Greek recreation, but what they did to "fit in" once they began participating. I hope that addresses your concerns. Evanh2008 (talk 02:59, 10 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not an expert on this topic, but there's probably a lot more to it than circumcision. The Greek concept of sport was strongly linked to paganism (at least originally), and the Jews may well have objected to the symbolism.Nojamus (talk) 23:22, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

 * Tretchikov (Hellenistic Civilisation and the Jews, p.350) writes that "at the beginning of the Roman period, the Jews made various attempts to penetrate the citizen-class, and one of their ways of doing this was to obtain an education in the gymnasium. Greek athletic life, however, was carried on in a Greek religious setting, and was saturated with memories of Greek mythology and Greek classical literature; and not for nothing did II Maccabees regarded the establishment of the gymnasium at Jerusalem as 'the acme of Hellenism' (4:13)  But Diaspora Jewry thought differently.  Philo saw the life of athletics ... as an everyday phenomenon and found no fault with it.  ...  [T]here is no doubt that the education of young Jews in the gymnasia opened them to the way to a deeper understanding of Greek culture as a whole." Marshall46 (talk) 12:07, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

Naming conventions on WP for the Maccabees
Please see Talk:Eleazar Avaran. Discussion: How should the original Maccabees, the father Mattathias and his five sons, John (Johanan), Simon, Judah (Judas), Eleazar (Elazar), Jonathan be known on Wikipedia? Thank you, IZAK (talk) 11:10, 7 November 2013 (UTC)

I will be adding a portion on the differences between the First and Second Maccabees. Both of these books express vastly different accounts. There are differences on the inclusion and beliefs of martyrdom and resurrection from both authors. Thus, each book’s narrative is shaped and told in a dissimilar manner. Additionally, the tone of each record is in contrast, where First Maccabees presents a non-objective and sober account, taking influence from the Hebrew Bible, Second Maccabees is particularly emotional. In regards to composition, these two books are unalike, too. First Maccabees begins with the rise and legitimacy of the Hasmonean dynasty, originating with a narrative of the priest Mattathias. On the other hand, Second Maccabees starts with two letters, Epistle I and Epistle II, that would later prove to contradict the historical narrative. My exact reference is: Jonathan A. Goldstein, “Introduction,” in I Maccabees (Doubleday & Company, Inc. Garden city, New York, 1976), 12,21,27,33,79. Goldstein was a biblical author and scholar who achieved a master’s and bachelor’s degree from Harvard University and a doctorate from Columbia University. He taught history at Columbia University for two years before teaching at the University of Iowa from 1962 to 1997. If anyone wants to comment on this addition, please let me know on this Talk Page or on my Talk Page.Aviv28 (talk) 00:52, 15 November 2018 (UTC).
 * You are right, both books are different. I think the first Book of the Maccabees recounts the story of militar heroism, while the second book exalts Jewish martydoom, although it also mentions battles. Also the second book talks about supernatural miracles (angels beating up the Greek official).--יניב הורון (Yaniv) (talk) 20:04, 15 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Aviv28, this suggestion belongs in a separate section of the Talk Page, not under a section entitled "Naming Conventions". Also, this contribution would make more sense in the wiki article Books of the Maccabees. Finally, though the idea of contrasting the two books is promising, there is a problem with clarity which needs solving. You seem to raise three points of difference: 1) inclusion of beliefs on martyrdom and resurrection. 2) Tone. 3) Composition. As they currently stand in your description, none of these three points is entirely clear. Are you going to clarify them better? Re 1, what exactly is the difference - does one book believe in martyrdom while the other doesn't? Re 2, you write "non-objective and sober" which seems contradictory. Did you mean "objective and sober"? Re 3, readers don't know who Mattathias is and why his mention would serve to legitimize the dynasty. Readers also don't know in what way the epistles contradict the historical narrative (historical narrative of what?).Chapmansh (talk) 20:28, 20 November 2018 (UTC)

Merging again?
There are two very similar pages about this subject; this one and Maccabean Revolt. It's confusing and means a lot of editing effort is wasted. Apparently these pages were merged in 2011 but then they diverged again. Should they be merged again? Im The IP (talk) 20:24, 16 December 2020 (UTC)

Forced conversions?
I removed mention of forced conversions in the lede, since there needs to be a clearer explanation and citation in the body if this information is going to be mentioned in this article. The info doesn't necessarily need stay in this article, given that reliable sources say the following:

 * Rabbi Jeremy Rosen in J-Wire: "Forced conversion was something new then...Its compulsive element started when Antiochus  IV set about trying to convert the Jews of Israel to Hellenism and Jews were forbidden to circumcise their children or be killed (1Maccabees 1:48). In response, the Hasmonean emphasis on circumcision was, initially, aimed only at Jews who had reversed their circumcisions to assimilate into Greek society. The campaigns of Judah and Jonathan against other communities were to defend Jews who had been attacked by  Greek and Ammonite rivals. It was John Hyrcanus, of the next generation who it was claimed initiated forced conversion on the Idumean enemy as an alternative to obliteration...Why did Second Temple-era Jewish leaders coerce a foreign population to adopt Judaism? There was no Biblical precedent for coercion...Some historians argue that the stories of forced circumcision are not historical and reflected anti-Hasmonean propaganda that depicted the Jewish kings as religiously intolerant tyrants. The Talmud is absolutely clear that conversion to Judaism should be voluntary and motivated by sincere conviction (TB Yevamot 24b)...Unlike other religions, Judaism was not evangelical and did not believe that only by becoming a Jew could you be a good human being through the one true path to God. This issue of conversion remains a huge area of conflict in Judaism today between those who think that it should only be an act of sincere commitment to a Jewish way of life and those who believe it should be a way of retaining minimal Jewish identity even by those who have no interest in the Jewish religion. But certainly, no one believes in forced conversion and absolutely not in compelling circumcision."

 * From The Oxford Dictionary of the Jewish Religion (2 ed.): "The forced conversion of the Idumeans (Edomites) to Judaism by John Hyrcanus (135–105 bce) is the only such recorded case of forced conversions to Judaism. On the other hand, Jews have been the victims of forced conversions throughout their history." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:E050:812F:89D2:B618:BB67:1816 (talk) 08:43, 27 December 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Maccabees


text: User talk:69.76.125.90

title: User talk:69.76.125.90


text: User talk:192.85.50.2

title: User talk:192.85.50.2