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Talk:Desalination

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References and External links
re03955 14:21, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

What is "pressure barrier osmosis"? Google finds only Wikipedia articles. This term appeared first in water resources (first version).--80.137.207.121 21:18, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I haven't been able to find anything to confirm the existance of such a thing. Failing the arrival of confirming references that I can actually see, I will probably remove the reference to "pressure barrier osmosis" next month. --Coro 21:58, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I never heard of it either. Probably a confusion with reverse osmosis. pstudier 01:19, 2005 Mar 30 (UTC) I agree - it sounds like RO to me - there is much confusion on this page. Steelaway

additional citations for verification
Encyclopedia of Desalination and Water Resources (DESWARE) http://www.desware.net/ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Manic mechanic (talk • contribs) 03:36, 31 December 2007 (UTC)

Freeze-thaw water desalination goes through tests in North Dakota

http://www.undeerc.org/centersofexcellence/waterfreeze.aspx —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.22.46.220 (talk) 02:16, 23 October 2010 (UTC) http://www.edie.net/news/news_story.asp?id=892 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.22.46.220 (talk) 02:14, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Reports for the Desalination and Water Purification Research Program (DWPR) are here http://www.usbr.gov/pmts/water/publications/reports.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.22.46.220 (talk) 02:23, 23 October 2010 (UTC)

Energy
How much energy is needed to desalinate a cubic meter of sea-water? Someone please add this to the article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 83.249.20.138 (talk) 19:52, 8 December 2006 (UTC).
 * A cubic meter? Who measures water that way?  Should the answer be provided in millicalories just for fun?  Jpp42 13:41, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
 * If SI is used, this would be good for everybody. I think cubic meter is the best way.re03955 14:21, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree 1m3 of water is 1Kl or 1000 litres which is the universally accepted SI unit (at STP 20 degrees Celsius - outside of the USA of course!)

A long time coming, but here's an answer as to how much energy is needed: it depends. According to the Elimelech and Phillip review paper in Science (Aug. 2011): "the theoretical minimum energy of desalination for seawater at 35,000 parts per million (ppm) salt and at a typical recovery of 50% is 1.06 kWh/m3."(p. 713) Further on it says: "Additional energy, >1 kWh/m3, is consumed by the intake, pretreatment, posttreatment, and brine discharge stages ...." Also for posttreatment of the removal of boron and chlorides. On p. 716: "Current state-of-the-art SWRO plants consume between 3 and 4 kWh/m3 and emit between 1.4 and 1.8 kg CO2 per cubmic meter of produced water." See paper for additional details and references. - J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 20:30, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Currently, the introduction mentions that Energy consumption of sea water desalination can be as low as 3 kWh/m^3, and to backup that claim it cites an article titled "Energy Efficient Reverse Osmosis Desalination Process" by ijesd.org. This seems to be a practical limit to energy consumption. However, the link is broken and I haven't been able to find the article on the source. This claim and the reference should be removed. Negrulio (talk) 13:38, 17 March 2014 (UTC)

The article says "Supplying all domestic water by sea water desalination would increase US Domestic energy consumption by around 10%, about the amount of energy used by a domestic refrigerator[14]" Well hell, that's not much. I would have thought it would have taken a lot of domestic refrigerators. I'd edit this, but I'm not sure what the author intends to say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.50.0.25 (talk) 23:09, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Under the "Energy Consumption" section is "Note: "Electrical equivalent" of thermal energy is the electrical energy that cannot be produced in a turbine because of extraction of the heating steam". This sentence doesn't say anything sensible - it appears to be a poorly-worded attempt to say something like "'Electrical equivalent' of thermal energy is the amount of electrical current a given quantity of thermal energy could be used to generate with a turbine". I believe my interpretation to be correct given the units involved, the typical efficiency of a turbine generator of the appropriate size, and my experience as a Chemical Engineer. I will be rewording the note for clarity. I believe this is important because the unit used (watts) applies to both thermal and electrical energy, meaning in an "ideal" case 1 kWh of thermal energy would do the same amount of work as 1 kWh of electrical energy. The reason for the extra row in the table is to account for losses during conversion. Matthias Alexander Jude Shapiro (talk) 04:01, 7 August 2014 (UTC)

This section is rubbish. Watts are a RATE, while m^3 is a quantity. The proper unit is a Joule. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.134.71.183 (talk) 18:46, 26 April 2015 (UTC)

Gas Hydrates.
The interest in ethane (gas) hydrates is more to do with mining them from the sea floor for their gas and water components to be separated. While being researched for desalination it is certainly not a major process. Moreover it does not yet produce water fit for drinking. I have relegate the process to the list of possible methods... perhaps it can be expanded on its own article. CustardJack 12:03, 10 May 2005 (UTC)

I am not sure what Membrane Distillation means. I suspect that it is an old-fashioned term for Membrane Processes and therefore should be removed, since they exist as separate entries under Reverse Osmosis and Nanofiltration (which I have added). However, it may mean what are generally termed "Hybrid Plants", which combine distillation, ie evaporation, with membrane processes and an electricity generating station. This alternative provides flexibility because of its two sources of energy: electricity for the membrane process and low-pressure steam from the power station for the thermal evaporation process (MSF or ME).

As membrane technologies improve it may be useful to keep this section alive.

WuLouis

Hello WuLouis,

Membrane distillation is a process using material like Gore-Tex for desalination. There have been small applications been set up and research is going on in Germany. Plus for this process is low temperature and pressure. Scaling and fouling is very low! GOR better PR has to be improved during ongoing research at the moment. See also http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Membrandestillation

juliet yahyaei
 * Totally forgetting my lack of German, I tried to take a look at the referenced article. Needless to say, I didn't get very far. Any chance of somebody translating to an English version?--Coro 00:09, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

 * You could try . This is Google's translation of the web page. It seems to me that this would require the same amount of heat as any conventional distillation, but at a lower temperature. Not sure what it's advantage over vacuum distillation. Hope this helps. pstudier 01:55, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Misplaced item?
The sentence "While SDSU Center for Advanced Water Technologies [2] and Professor Ronald A. Newcomb has worked with a local company (Aqua Genesis Ltd.) to assist in the development of geothermally powered desalination. [3]" towards the top of the page seems a) to be advertising and b) out of context where it has been placed. Geothermally powered desalination is not a major desalination technology at present. Wulouis

In looking at it, I'm having to agree. That section is supposed to be for currently established methods. I will be moving that stuff down to the experimental section.--Coro 01:10, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Spray method
Does anyone recall a method involving spraying the saltwater (creating a fine mist), making distillation require vastly less energy? Apparently boiling the mist saltwater was much easier than boiling it as a liquid.

I dont think this is supported in the thermodynamic literature, there is energy required to develop a fine mist.

First time thermal desalination was published
I did try to find out when thermal desalination (MSF) first was published and fond a Process scheme of a multi stage flash (MSF) evaporator published 23. – 26. May 1934 in Germany during a seminar of “Schiffstechnische Gesellschaft” by Mr. R. Blaum called “Process scheme of a 3-stage flash evaporator plant with brain recirculation” I do have a scan of the process if wanted because I do not know how to get it in here.

Claus Mertes

 * Postwar, R.S. (Bob) Silver, a Scottish professor of engineering (and poet and playwright), did a thermodynamic analysis that showed multi-stage flash and reverse osmosis were clearly the best processes. Reverse osmosis was at the time technologically infeasible, and I believe that Silver's MSF design was the first continuous-flow process to be commercially implemented, in Kuwait. He was given a UNESCO gold medal for this invention. Bob told me that patents were drafted but did not succeed in catching very much of the huge money that American companies subsequently made. I am not sure how Blaum fitted in; Bob is no longer with us, but his published papers on the subject might say. - AG, Stockport.

Thanks for this information. Talking about a continuous-flow process please have a look at http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meerwasserentsalzung. This is the continuous-flow process published in 1934 by Blaum. - Claus Mertes

Economics
I added a bunch of disclaimers to the economics section, as it is simple stated facts without references. If anyone has any real information as to the economics and costs of construction/maintenance/etc, I think it would be extremely useful.Dirtyharry2 00:27, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

I am currently the project engineer for supply of GRP pipe to the Gold Coast Desalination project at Tugun in Queensland Australia. You have asked about construction costs and I have figures for the project of: Pretreatment and RO plant: AUD 600M Tunnel for supply and return of salt water: AUD 300M Network piping for fresh water: AUD 300M These are construction cost estimates only that have been given to contractors. 219.89.123.33 23:49, 10 September 2007 (UTC)D Ashby

Carbon emissions from desalination
I suggest a paragraph or two about carbon dioxide emissions (greenhouse gas) from desalination would be appropriate in this discussion. If the energy intensity of desalination is quantified, it will then be possible to estimate greenhouse emissions for a given electricity source (e.g. coal etc). I do not know the amount of energy required for desalination, but I can quantify the emissions relative to the energy requirement. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Haimona (talk • contribs) 01:32, 21 March 2007 (UTC).
 * See Talk:Desalination (above) for figures and reference. - J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 20:33, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

There are a lot of grammatical errors in this article
There are a lot of errors with the usage of "and," in regards to run-on sentences. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jasdub32 (talk • contribs) 10:52, 26 April 2007 (UTC).

Expansion requests
This article could benefit from: -- Beland 16:33, 27 June 2007 (UTC)
 * More examples of prices of desalination and alternatives (such as tapping ground, river, or lake water) in various locations around the world. That way readers can make up their own minds about how expensive or infeasible it is.
 * A list quantitatively detailing the suppy capacity on a country-by-country or plant-by-plant basis for the largest facilities in the world.
 * The World Bank report on desalination in the Middle East and Central Asia has significant useful information on desalination in general, covering the economics, environmental aspects, energy use, and institutional aspects. It could be a useful reference for any expansion of the article: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/INTWSS/Resources/Desal_mainreport-Final2.pdf--Mschiffler (talk) 02:46, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

68.188.203.251 (talk) 18:23, 6 September 2012 (UTC) Any way to list plants with links and in particularly note the down time for the prior 24 months? It seems like many plants are off line for various reasons so cannot be actually considered operational.

Retitle article "water desalination?"
I expanded the opening paragraph to note that desalination means salt removal generally, as with soil desalination. Perhaps this article should be renamed "water desalination" (which currently redirects to desalination), and desalination made into a stub article explaining the general definition, with wiki links to water desalination and soil desalination. -Agyle 23:17, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Forward osmosis
"food grade concentrate". What substance is used? It should be made clear that this will not give rise to pure water, but some kind of soup or syrup. 84.43.92.19 17:11, 12 September 2007 (UTC)Michael

 * That sentence was unreferenced, and I tagged it and other statements in the section as needing citations. According to "Forward Osmosis: A New Approach to Water Purification and Desalination", forward osmosis is used in concentrating food products like fruit juice, but not in desalination. A casual google search of "forward osmosis" (FO) and "desalination" suggests that as of 2006, FO was not used in commercial desalination, and experimental use seems to use ammonia and carbon dioxide rather than food grade concentrate on the non-salt side. -Agyle 07:59, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Until we have evidence of commercial use, I've removed it from the list of methods in use. However, since we do have evidence of research being done, I've popped a mention of it into the experimental section.--Coro (talk) 01:00, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

Largest desalination plant is in Israel?
I believe the world's largest desalination plant is in Ashkelon, Israel, it's now providing and selling 165 000 m3 of water per day and will eventually produce 330,000 m3 per day of water daily. Punjabishere (talk) 22:22, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

It is also the most economical and hi-tech plant. From what I heard the plant use one kind of osmosis technology and involvement of nanotech, they used nanotech to produce a huge plastic film and when filled with sea water only fresh water can penetrate, that reduce the cost significantly! sollar power being used to run the factory, after the sunset the workers start to clean the film, mainly removing the salt from the surface of the film. The biggest cost is the film or to clean the film. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.117.228.62 (talk) 16:00, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Indeed, judging by the numbers alone, the Tampa Bay plant also rivals the one in the Emirates. Since "World's largest water desalination plant" is such a nice greenwashing trophy, there is reason to assume that the UAE would use its influence on Wikipedia to inflate such a claim. Elias (talk) 16:10, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

Actual power rating
I found in the article only 4 kWh per m³ sea water. This is not state of the art. New systems with pressure recovery are at 2.5 kWh electric power / m³.

Here a desalination cost calulator

When it comes to the task to reduce carbon dioxide to a level before using fossile energy, desalination for irrigation dry areas could be a key technology.

--Pege.founder (talk) 13:06, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Clarification
"Sometimes the process produces table salt as a by-product. It is used on many ships and submarines."
 * I can't be sure whether this is referring to the salt being used or the process used on ships and submarines. Any ideas?

"Saudi Arabia's desalination plants account for about 24% of total world capacity."
 * This sounds like the plants account for 24% of all desalination worldwide, but it could also be referring to using 24% of the world's energy capacity. Any ideas? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Neum (talk • contribs) 22:09, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

COORD template
How is the coord template relevant for this article? I believe it should be removed. Timneu22 (talk) 16:21, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

History?
Where's the history. I opened this page to read about the history of Desalination. But there was no info. Somebody please upload the history of Desalination plants. Tri400 (talk) 11:34, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Gallons vs cubic meters
There seems to be somewhat of an edit war about citing gallons vs. citing cubic meters. I think we should use whichever unit of measurement is cited in the source. If someone wishes to cite the other unit, it can be added in parenthesis after the original unit. Grundle2600 (talk) 22:44, 19 July 2008 (UTC) What is going on here ? SI units are used throughout the world and are easier to use than US gallons / acre feet or pounds. Lets just stick to SI units!

i love pie —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.253.180.90 (talk) 09:18, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

 * I fully agree with Mr(s?) Grundle2600. However, when non-SI units are being used that happen to be non-uniquely defined, the actual "taste" used should be mentioned. In this case I had to divide the m3 by the gallons to find that here 1 gallon = 3,78 m3, so that apparently the US gallon was used. El Paso in in the USA, but Aruba is a part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands (Europe), so it was not obvious that the US gallon was used.
 * Therefore, in cases like this, I would suggest that an ambiguous unit like "gallon" (or "mile", or whatever) be preceded by either "imperial" or "US", (or "nautical" in case of miles), whichever applies.
 * --HHahn (Talk)  20:57, 19 January 2010 (UTC)

Vapor-compression vs Evaporation/condensation
Can anyone provide an explanation as what difference exist, if any? Right now, I'm inclined to remove the latter from the list, but will wait a week for a response before doing so. --Coro (talk) 01:36, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Well, the question should be phrased in a different way, I believe : if formulated this way is tantamount to asking whether a red jacket is warmer than black hat.
 * Evaporative desalinators always work on the evaporation/condensation, whichever their type : multiflash, multiple effect or vapour compression. The concept is, I feed thermal energy (steam, electricty, etc) to create an evaporation in the water body to be desalted, and as a result I condense vapours that have no (well, almost) salt in them.
 * The specific case of vapour compression works in the same way; in it, the energy source is (usually) electricity driving a vapour compressor : the compressor will increase the pressure of the vapours released in the evaporator body, so that these vapours will condense if cooled by the same liquor circulating in the body. the heat supplied by condensation will grant evaporation, and so forth. If you are familiar with Italian language, give a look here; schemes may be explicative.--Ub (talk) 15:10, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Passarell Process
There is reference in the article to a so-called Passarell process. I used the link, and this is what I would call, optimistically, a goodwill effort from a non-specialist. Unless somebody gives sounder evidence of the existence of such a process, I will delete the reference. --Ub (talk) 14:58, 7 November 2008 (UTC)

Searches for information on the Passarell process seem to invoke a lot of perpetual motion references. Given that the ideal gas law shows us that the energy saved by evaporating in a vacuum will be spent creating the vacuum, I am not surprised that this does not exist beyond the patent. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.2.247.23 (talk) 22:27, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Sounds like perpetual motion to me - the prices quoted for this process are either perpetual motion or Harry potteresque. Frankly I dont believe them. Thermal desalination processes have always been on a par with RO for cost and with energy costs rising - I dont see this changing to the extent portrayed in the Passarell(i) process. Sorry as I would like to be a true believer. §

strange sentence on supply options
The article currently says:
 * Increased water conservation and water use efficiency remain the most cost effective priority for supplying water.

But conservation and increased efficiency obviously don't supply any water at all! They do reduce the amount of water demand, thereby causing less supply to be required, but this is a very weird way to word that. --Delirium (talk) 03:34, 4 March 2009 (UTC)

This article should not have been moved from "Desalination" to "Water desalination" without a discussion first.
There is now a desalination disambiguation page that links to water desalination and soil desalination. But every use of the term desalination that I've seen in the media refers to water, not soil. So I added "This article is about water desalination. For soil desalination, see soil desalination" to the beginning of this article. I can't move this article back until after the disambiguation page is deleted. Grundle2600 (talk) 23:47, 5 April 2009 (UTC)

Thanks for moving it back! Grundle2600 (talk) 00:17, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

 * (edit conflict) I have moved the article back to Desalination. The disambiguation page only had links to two articles, Desalination and Soil salinity control.  A disambiguation page is only appropriate when there are three or more articles to choose between.  When there are only two articles, hatnotes at the top of both articles, with links to the other article are appropriate.  See WP:DAB for more information.  If anyone thinks this article should be moved (possibly to water desalination, then it should be discussed here on the talk page to reach consensus first. — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  00:19, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * You're welcome. — LinguistAtLarge • Talk  00:19, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * On my user talk page I have been rebutted for making the move, and I have replied and I have rejected arguments. Yet I accepted the back move and agreed that prior discussion would have been more appropriate. Still, I think the suggestion above "Retitle article "water desalination?" by Agyle does make sense. In the past I have made similar moves "Salinity control" and "Drainage system" without problem and in the second case with a compliment. Life is variable.R.J.Oosterbaan (talk) 01:35, 6 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I support the move to water desalination

KVDP (talk) 06:56, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Proposal to move this article to "Water desalination"
Recently I made that move, but it was undone. See the discussion above and on my talk page. When desalination can refer to two different things like A-desalination and B-desalination it is logical to call these items as such and make a disambiguation page. There are peace makers and trouble makers and it would be wrong to make a page about trouble makers and call it simply "makers". R.J.Oosterbaan (talk) 02:30, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

This is a repeat of the proposal given before on this page, see Talk:Desalination. For opponents see the discussion on user talk:R.J.Oosterbaan. However, recently I created the page Environmental impact of irrigation and there already existed a disambiguation page Environmental impact with ONLY TWO items, but I could now SMOOTHLY enter the new page. Disambiguation pages give a logical structure to Wikipedia, even when it concerns two items. R.J.Oosterbaan (talk) 16:19, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

The headache that I see here is that most people in the Desalination industry already automatically assume that desalination discussions relate to water as a matter of course. And in all the environmental discussions where desalination comes up, it is typically assumed that water is involved. Unless the idea is to force people into becoming aware that another kind of desalination exists, all the alleged disambiguation does is add another click to their search. Because I occasionally keep track of agricultural issues in California, I have come across articles relating soil salinity and soil desalination. But these articles always make it clear that they are covering "Soil Desalination" rather than "Desalination, so as to prevent confusion since there is a tendency to consider to consider "Water Desalination" to be synonymous to "Desalination".--Coro (talk) 04:42, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

History and etymology sections
Can we have a history and etymology section? Faro0485 (talk) 02:19, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

Clarification needed
The beginning of this article states, "The world's largest desalination plant is the Jebel Ali Desalination Plant (Phase 2) in the United Arab Emirates." However, further down on the page it is indicated that "the Ashkelon seawater reverse osmosis (SWRO) desalination plant in Israel is the largest in the world."

Does the second statement mean to say that Ashkelon is the largest of its type in the world? SweetNightmares (talk) 00:37, 2 February 2010 (UTC) then woohoo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.75.61.119 (talk) 10:01, 18 March 2010 (UTC)

Existing desalination plants
I notice that no reference is made in the article to existing desalination plants in Malta. To the best of my knowledge over 50% of the potable water there is produced this way, so surely it would be relevant to the article to include information about this. I'm no expert on Maltese water plants nor desalination but I hope someone who is adds some appropriate material as my attempt would, in all likelihood, be riddled with errors. IrishPete (talk) 02:47, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

why?????
why 3 phase induction motars is not used for chemicak reactors????????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 180.149.49.225 (talk) 09:16, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

File:PlantaSchemaFiction.png
It was pointed out at the Help desk that File:PlantaSchemaFiction.png is annotated in Spanish. Is this picture necessary to the article? Is there a better version? -- John of Reading (talk) 14:45, 24 January 2011 (UTC)

Millions or billions?
In the paragraph "Saudi Arabia" I undid an anonymous edit that changed "1060 million" to "1.060 billion". This is pretty confusing. A US "billion" is 109, whereas a UK "billion" is 1012. In this case, the same paragraph uses "litre" (instead of "liter"), thi suggesting being written by a UK author. Even if "litre" where changed to "liter", it remains unsure, as many people seem to be insufficiently aware of these differences. HHahn (Talk)  13:49, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Review article
I have added the following article from Science to the article. This is a significant review article of the current state of desalination and its future prospects; it is an excellent source of information and additional references.

 * - J. Johnson (JJ) (talk) 20:40, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

resource in current issue of Environment (September/October 2011)
Resource in current issue of Environment (Volume 53, Number 5, September/October 2011)

http://www.environmentmagazine.org/

Article starting on page 34; The Desalination debate - Lessons Learned thus far by Alon Tal. 99.181.150.29 (talk) 02:02, 27 September 2011 (UTC)
 * http://www.environmentmagazine.org/Archives/Back%20Issues/2011/September-October%202011/climate-change-full.html would be more specific  99.181.131.7 (talk) 03:54, 28 September 2011 (UTC)

68.188.203.251 (talk) 18:14, 6 September 2012 (UTC) 68.188.203.251 (talk) 18:19, 6 September 2012 (UTC) These links go direct to current issues not the desal info. Here is desal article link http://www.environmentmagazine.org/Archives/Back%20Issues/2011/September-October%202011/desalination-debate-abstract.html but is only stub, no access to full article.

Suggestions for improvement
Hello, the methods in the article are lacking: only a few methods are described, but the box in the beginning shows many different methods and subtypes of methods. Thus, the Methods section should be improved. Also, in the article there could be a mention about the cost level of each of these methods. I suppose, for example, that the freezing desalination is too expensive, but on the other hand it may be a process that can be scaled up. These kinds of differences between the methods should be described. Also, I think that the list Existing facilities and facilities under construction should be a subarticle and in this article a short intro and a link to the list would be enough. --Hartz (talk) 17:01, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

 * I agree with the comment on the "Methods" section. Quite a few methods of distillation come up, but each method only has a sentence or two explaining it. I can try and do some research on this to try and expand this section. I do like your idea of breaking the methods into subtypes but I feel the part of comparing costs may better fit somewhere in the economics section of this article. Pgholami1 (talk) 00:59, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

 * I added more about various popular methods. It could stand to be a bit further expanded, but I wrote enough for the to get the gist of it. I refrained a bit from writing too much since some already have their own pagesPgholami1 (talk) 00:00, 17 November 2016 (UTC)

It might be better to remove the random link under "Other Approaches". It is poorly formatted in and serves no purpose really. The statement before it is backed by a study; however, the link is about an individual winning a challenge (although at least with the same method). But since the link is more that of an interview I feel that it should not be referenced let alone linked randomly on this article. If this person's paper on this topic can be found, then that can possibly be used to expand on this topic a little more though. Pgholami1 (talk) 05:01, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Electrochemically mediated seawater desalination
I don't know enough about the subject to know how this should fit in, or if it should have its own page/stub. Here's one link google has more. Brimba (talk) 01:28, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

Splitting article into "Desalination" and "Desalination facilities"
I think that this article should be split into two articles, "Desalination" and "Desalination facilities". What is currently under the title "Existing facilities and facilities under construction" would be moved to the new article. This would remove approximately 2,800 words from this 7,300 word article, which comes out to about 38% (I counted all "edit source" material above the see also section).

In the new "Desalination" article, "Desalination facilities" could be a short section with a link to the main article. Information such as the world's largest or most efficient desalination facility would be appropriate to mention in this section (references and dates should be used for such claims). Outside of this section, facilities should be mentioned when they are relevant.

If you agree or disagree, please leave your comments below. However, if you are expecting a reply from me personally, please leave a message on my talk page. -- Kjkolb (talk) 05:11, 2 July 2013 (UTC)

Generic unit
Hi, I am glad we dont have to del with gallons here, but so far there is no standardized use of m³ per day or year. Please use one sort of unit oper all. I agre with the need for a list. Serten (talk) 12:21, 22 July 2013 (UTC)

Please post number of months desalt plant actually produces as rep in previous year
64.134.170.135 (talk) 16:39, 17 November 2013 (UTC) I have posted this before at this (?) or another similar Wiki site. As there is often much delay, changes, implementation problems, and on site security, it is impossible to know if the plant is actually operating and producing. This info would make an understanding of desalt plants feasible. The production info in this article is a repro of the specs for what the plant's operation call for. Continued vague and foggy and reproed info make the claim of desalt unsubstantiated.

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page
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Missing Citations
There's quite a few citations needed (in sections titled "Methods", "experimental Techniques", "Facilities", and "In Nature"). The "Methods" section really does need to be updated to either verify the methods explained with a proper citation or updated to include the true method again with citation. Pgholami1 (talk) 00:26, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Missing Reference
Reference number 50 no longer exists. When you click on it to follow the link you encounter a "Error 404" page. The claim about reclamation of wastewater over desalination should be either removed or defended with another source Pgholami1 (talk) 00:44, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

missing citations, "in nature" section seems off
Every statistical fact mentioned is cited, as are any ‘conclusions’ about the facts. Meanwhile, summary and transition sentences are not excessively cited. Everything is relevant to the topic; however, the “in nature” section, while interesting and appropriate for Wikipedia articles about some other things, is slightly distracting because some of it could be mentioned in the overall summary of desalination, and some of it seems very loosely related to the rest of the article, which is about human-designed desalination. Checked a few citations - many of them follow through, but some of them (30, 61, 73) led to error pages, which means there is no longer any way to verify the information in the article that cites those sources. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ttchserum (talk • contribs) 05:38, 5 November 2016 (UTC)

Error in reference list
Reference 18 "Energy Requirements of Desalination processes" is broken. I found the intended article, but I am not well-versed enough in wikipedia to know how to edit the reference list, so here is the proper link: http://www.desware.net/Energy-Requirements-Desalination-Processes.aspx — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.237.40.215 (talk) 10:57, 14 November 2016 (UTC)

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Removed the further reading list
I've removed the further reading list. If any of these are really important use them for inline citations:
 * Committee on Advancing Desalination Technology, National Research Council. (2008). Desalination: A National Perspective. National Academies Press.
 * Desalination: The next wave in global water consumption from TLVInsider
 * Significant review article.
 * R&D needs for Low CO2 Desalination from MIT EMsmile (talk) 13:58, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Make the lead section into a better summary
If someone has time it would be great if the lead section could be turned into a better summary of the article (about 4 paragraphs long). Perhaps student editor, ? EMsmile (talk) 14:11, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Wave powered desalination appears miscategorized
Wave powered desalination is described as a reverse osmosis technology, not a distillation technology. But I lack the expertise to confirm this. 2001:56A:711D:4500:AC7A:B4F6:581B:81F6 (talk) 13:01, 22 May 2022 (UTC)

Missing citation: first commercial RO plant in California?
Noticed there was no citation on the claim that the first commercial reverse osmosis plant was in California. I tried to find a reference myself but came up short. Can anyone else give it a shot? Faielgila (talk) 07:37, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Added.--AntientNestor (talk) 10:09, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Products?
No matter what the desalination process; you have clear water, and everything else that is taken out. I am unlearned. What are the uses of the "product" other than drinking water? Is there a market: sodium, etc.. 2601:8B:8400:6C0:1EA5:81F4:E948:AAB3 (talk) 09:46, 12 May 2024 (UTC)
 * I am unclear what your question is. Which part of the Wikipedia article do you find unclear? And there is no market for the brine if that's what you are referring to. It's an unwanted by-product. EMsmile (talk) 09:31, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Desalination


text:
Talk:Fascio di Combattimento

This should begin as a section of Fascism. Wetman 21:19, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Fascio di Combattimento


text:
Talk:Gold rush

Being Part of a Gold Mine
The 'graph
 * Anecdotally, a few miners made thousends, several suppliers (such as Levi Strauss) and traders made good money,i and numerous unfortunates endured hardship and privation in exotic frontiers of civilisation for small ultimate rewards.
 * Side thought: a list of companies and individuals whose roots (money or markets) lay in the Klondike rush, such as Levi-Strauss; here in BC it was (among others) Jones Tent & Awning. The Scrooge McDuck list, as it were.  The same page could perhaps go into some of those who made it all, then lost it all, too.Skookum1 02:02, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Read it to me 38.124.141.179 (talk) 23:26, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

raises these concerns: --Jerzy(t) 21:20, 2004 Aug 13 (UTC)
 * 1) What is the role of the word "Anecdotally" in this sentence? It doesn't modify any or all of the verbs! Is it just saying "I don't have any stats"? (Steven Pinker does argue for adverbs like "hopefully" that make sense by modifying the whole sentence, but IMO that's a fringe view.) If so, it can arguably be omitted as implicit in not offering stats, or said better; any other purpose can be served w/ less vagueness.
 * 2) "Good money" is unencyclopedically vague; in any case, vast numbers of traders (not several) probably would have considered they were making good money.
 * 3) "[N]umerous unfortunates" implies, by omission, being the last of the categories worthy of mention.  But, as to the US (the nearly exclusive focus of the article, BTW), city life for immigrants and  those drawn in from rural communities was pretty hellish.  In constrast
 * 4) Deadwood, purportedly drawing  on contemporary journals, portrays a miner (who shows no sign of being atypical) who mines every day only the amount that he needs to pay for the evening's liquor, gambling losses, and prostitution (no indication of whether he cooked for himself!), and couldn't be happier.  And
 * 5) imputing misfortune (and by tone suggesting misery) so reflexively suggests complete ignorance of the strong modern subculture of outdoor recreation: even for those living in a nice suburb, a 13.5-hour, 18-mile hike, finishing in the dark, with, in the middle, clmbing and then descending a half mile of loose-scree-strewn slope at a grade above 40% (tearing the seat out of pants and bruising dignities), can be refreshing and "hurt real good".  (Even when the summit has no view!) Love of the wilderness may not be assumed to be a modern invention, especially in light of its survival even in the face of the improvement of creature comforts of non-rural life.

Of course the article as a whole also needs to treat the non-English-speaking world. It should perhaps become part of a suite that discusses the histories of Gold mining and Diamond mining (with their respective technical particulars), and uses Gold rush as a redirect to Low-technology mining camp or Labor-intensive mining. --Jerzy(t) 21:20, 2004 Aug 13 (UTC)

 * I disagree; a gold rush is not necessarily low-technology nor is it necessarily labour intensive, and they're also a unique phenomenon in New World history (the big one right now being in the Amazon and, yes, low-paid labour-intensive but a potential path to quick riches in a time/place of great poverty - the same formula that fueled the Klondike, actually, the associated spending spree for which is credited with jumpstarting the world economy after a long depression in the 1890s. As for low-technology, in the case of the Klondike there's the development of the "steam dredges" (they look like steamboats, but they dig through the frozen muck by using huge screws infused with steam-injection, and were mass-production and low-labour; can find you a picture of you like).  Like war, gold mining drives the development of technology and isn't all just axes and picks and goldpans; in British Columbia it was a driving force in the development of the early roads in the Colony ("road" being a term used loosely, of course).Skookum1 22:12, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Some of the people back in the east actually got more money than the "49-ers" just by selling what the miners needed to stay in California for a while.

Gold rushes: Cali vs Klondike
Comment re minor revision by elysdir was ''In the US, the most famous gold rush for most people is the California one; many Americans haven't heard of the Klondike one. Tweaked "most famous" line accordingly.'' True I suppose, and it seems that there's a general fudging of the timeline, too; i.e. a lot of the imagery associated with the California rush is intermixed with the imagery of the Klondike, even though they were 60 years apart; same as the BC/California rushes getting mingled, but that's only a 9 year separation and there's a direct connection culturally/individually. "The Gold Rush" is a movable feast, and while associated with California in the American popular mine the real gold rushes, the ones where a "rush" was involved, were the Fraser, the Cariboo, Fort Colville, Big Bend, the Stikine, the Klondike and Alaska; but avbain in the popular mind these have all become fused as if they were one eventSkookum1 22:12, 19 November 2005 (UTC)

Baile an Or
I've added Scotland to the list of countries that experienced a gold rush in the 19th century.

In case nobody believes me, I live pretty close to this location.

Lianachan 22:02, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Klondike in the lead/ introduction section
Ref comment in the edit summary: You don't need a web link, you can of course cite a book, thesis, .... Please use Template messages/Sources of articles/Generic citations. Please also find a non-northern Amerian ref (ie not Canada nor USA) that supports the assertion that Klondike most famous, preferably with reference to gold production and comparisons with other rushes in the world. In ten years the European population of Victoria, Australia increased seven-fold from from 76,000 to 540,000 because of the Victorian Gold Rush.

 * And the continued practice of "transportation" and regular settlement colonization; the settlement of Victoria wasn't due to the gold rush alone. (comment inserted by Sko all comments - including thse inserted in the middle of somebody else's discussion[[User:AYArktos|A Y Arktos\talk 01:40, 1 June 2006 (UTC))(UTC)

All sorts of gold records were produced - "richest shallow alluvial goldfield in the world", largest gold nugget, ... Victoria produced in the decade 1851-1860 20 million ounces, one third of the world's output. This is an international encyclopaedia - I think the Klondike rush is dealt adequately at the section Gold_rush and it is not justified to repeat the information in the lead section. Thus I have reverted - as above the rush adequately dealt with in its own article and under the 1890s section.--A Y Arktos\talk 22:00, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I hear what you're saying; but no other gold rush had the sweeping impact on the newly emerging global economy - tied together by steamship and rail lines instead of wagons and sailing ships - as did the Klondike; it is the archetype, even more than California (the Fraser Canyon Rush, which was after the Victorian Rush, was noted as the largest single movement of goldrush-movement of men in a very short period of time (25-30,000 in two or three months). The idea with my addition was to provide an example of the ways in which a gold rush kickstarts economies; in this case not just a region's or a country's, but the entire world's.  The Victorian Rush did not have the same effect, obviously; if it had happened in the same period as the Klondike, when overseas and long-distance travel was easier than ever before, it might have had a similar global impact; it did not.late sig afer sequence broken, as per AYArktos' comment Skookum1 01:52, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I've seen the bit about the global economic impact of the Klondike elsewhere than Berton's Klondike, but it's very likely that writings on the Klondike from outside of North America use him as a source and picked up that idea from him. I'll find figures on the Klondike because I'm sure it's the largest field in terms of ore body; and the nature of the deposits were so remarkable (70-90% gold between a few inches and a few yards thick, over the whole left slope of the Klondike basin: 400-500 square miles).Skookum1 23:54, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

 * This discussion is not trying to say my rush is better than yours (comparisons are odious) but to justify whether or not the Klondike should be mentioned in the lead section or as an 1890s rush in historic sequence.
 * Lots of men moving 25 - 30,000 in two to three months - there is a rush almost no-one has heard of in Lamplough, Victoria where 16,000 people moved in in days (not months) and moved out again in months. The rush to Castlemaine, Victoria had 25,000 men.  I haven't got population figures handy for others in Victoria, but I think they were bigger and certainly,  I believe, comparable to the "single movement of goldrush-movement of men in a very short period of time" statistics for Klondike.
 * That was the Fraser Canyon Gold Rush that was about, not the Klondike. Getting to the Klondike did NOT involve a short period of time, nor getting out of it.  Those foolish enough to try the journey from Edmonton and via the Red River of the North (in the latter case, two survivors arrived in Dawson after the rush was over, starved, crazy and apparently having eaten the others on board the vessel after burning it to stay warm, which had voyaged down the Athabasca and Mackenzie to the latter's delta, before attempting the ascent of the Red River of the North and the mad, totally mad, crossing of the Ogilvie Range.  Similarly, the attempted voyages up the Yukon River took over a year-and-a-half to make it; I could go on but you get the idea; even the voyage from Seattle or Vancouver to Skagway took over a week in those days, and it took ages to make the multiple trips up the passes to bring the required tonne of goods for entering Canadian territory.  The Fraser Canyon Gold Rush brought 30,000 men (the usual estimate) to Victoria, and then the Fraser River near Yale in less than a month, and more were to follow.  The first week saw Victoria's population skyrocket from the fur-trade era 500 to well over 5,000 (the ships coming from San Francisco were so full that it is a miracle non capsized en route).  The claim that this was the largest single movement of gold seekers may be limited to North America only, I can't remember; I think it was in Donald J. Hauka's Ned McGowan's War (title could be McGowan's War), or else in an unpublished doctoral thesis out of UBC by a Donald Marshall.Skookum1 01:50, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Global economic impact - Encyclopaedia Brittanica (1971 - its what I have on my shelves but we are talking a while ago so I don't think the facts have changed and I am trying to find an international type source) states that in the 25 years following 1850 more gold was produced in the world than in the 358 years previously - chiefly because of discoveries in California and Australia. There was  a third marked increase in the period 1890-1915 with discoveries in Alaska, the Yukon and on the Rand in Transvaal.  The assertion for the Klondike rush that "no other gold rush had the sweeping impact on the newly emerging global economy" just seems over the top - significant no doubt as were a whole lot of other rushes - California 49ers has a whole lot of resonances and I am sure could be regarded as significant.
 * Neither the Californian nor Australian (nor British Columbian) rushes occurred in an era when mass production of consumer goods made possible the worldwide making of money on the dreams of Eldorado; even products "branded" with the Klondike name (or otherwise associated with the dream-cum-adventure); my source for this is in Berton, and I've seen it in articles on the Klondike (which may have. used Berton as the source). Whole factories and shipping lines were launched because of the Klondike, and new inventions and technology come up with (not just the steam dredges, which I have a picture available of but I don't know enough about to write their article).  I'm not sure of world economic conditions in 1850 and 1849, i.e. whether there was a Depression or not; the point with the "Eldorado of the North" is its mere existence rejuveanted the New York and London stock exchanges after a prolonged depression; it also encouraged entrepeneurship as people began making and selling goods and services to those wanting to go there; I only know what I read, and that's what I read; the extended economic argument is a bit more complicated but thorough and involves all kinds of motivation of people, investors, manufacturers, shipping companies and more.  California did not do that, nor did Australia; both too remote, and the "world economy" not yet developed enough for there to have been an impact on the order of what the Klondike caused.Skookum1 01:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Remarkable deposits - the Britannica refers to the "boulders of gold" found in Australia - eg the Welcome Stranger nugget but there were lots of others. I am not sure the Klondike was that different to places in Victoria - I would want an assertion of comparison, at the moment the Castlemaine fields are asserted to be the "richest shallow alluvial goldfield in the world" - is that being claimed for the Klondike too?.
 * "shallow" is not a term I would use for the Klondike's glacial deposits; any defintion of waht a "shallow alluvial" goldfield is, perchance; I'm not sure it was one.Skookum1 01:52, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

 * "the settlement of Victoria wasn't due to the gold rush alone" - as per above this is not about my rush is better than yours - I have not put the Victorian rush in the lead, but where I think it belongs in the 1850s - the seven fold increase in the population of Victoria was certainly well above what would otherwise have been expected. Comparisons could perhaps be usefully made with the growth in other Australian colonies without gold - The population  of Tasmania for example increased from 70,130 in 1851 to 89,977 in 1861; NSW less than doubled from 178,668 in 1851 to 350,860 in 1861 (and it had gold); the same source (Australians: Historical Statistics (1987)) has Victoria 77,345 in 1851 to 538,628 in 1861.  Australian demography commentary refers to the gold rushes as the driver for growth "... rapid population growth which took the population [of Australia] to over 200,000 by about 1840, to over 400,000 a decade later and to 1,000,000, as a result of the gold rushes, by the late 1850s." (JC Caldwell, Chapter 2:Population, Australians: Historical Statistics (1987))
 * I think the challenge is to document all gold rushes better, population numbers involved, duration, gold produced - certainly this discussion has made me realise the information lacking on the wikipedia about Australian gold rushes.--A Y Arktos\talk 01:40, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Oh in repsonse also to whether transportation affected Australia's demography in the period 1851 to 1861 see Convictism in Australia - the colony of Victoria only ever had about 1750 convicts from England in the period 11844 to 49 - no one was silly enough to send convicts to the gold fields! Convict transportation had negligable impact on Australia's population growth after 1850.  Regular settlement colonisation did, but not enough to make the difference - helped South Australia no doubt - but I think the Caldwell source is authorative on the population growth being attributed to gold rushes.--A Y Arktos\talk 01:48, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

The Klondike is the most famous not so much for the quantity of gold (the Transvaal produced more, IIRC), or for the number of people, where there are no reliable figures anyway. Gold output figures are equally unreliable, at least in the Klondike where many miners tried to avoid paying royalties. The Klondike gold rush is famous mainly because it captured 20th century popular imagination through literary and film output. It seems that every European has read Jack London's White Fang; English-speaking school children are still subjected to Robert W. Service's The Shooting of Dan McGrew and The Cremation of Sam McGee; Charlie Chaplin eating his boots in The Gold Rush is an icon familiar to almost anyone; and many know of Disney's Uncle Scrooge McDuck Klondike adventures and associated characters (Soapy Slick, Goldie O'Gilt); numerous Mountie movies (Sergeant Preston of the Yukon, Rose-Marie, etc.); not to speak to a wide array of relatively minor writers such as Edwin Tappan Adney, etc.. I just came back from a trip to Italy, and it was easy to explain what part of Canada I was from (the Yukon) simply by either mentioning Jack London or that I was from where Uncle Scrooge made his money. So my gold rush is better'n yours 'cause people wrote books and made movies about it. :-) In terms of the article, I believe that mention of the fame of the '49 California gold rush and the Klondike do need to be in the lead paragraph. Currently, it does not even mention the Klondike or the Yukon, California as such (just the Sierra Nevada). Also, the South African Gold rushes need a little more prominence. Luigizanasi 14:35, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

 * With this edit I have added Klondike into the lead with its own sentence and added South Africa in to the 1890s noting the use of potassium cyanide changing gold production in that decade and being used on bpth the Yukon and in South Africa. I stilll am not convinced that the lead needs an additional paragraph on the Yukon - specific referral on is fine but I believe the points made above belong in the article on the Klondike.  As it is so famous, having provided a link in the first para, people can go to the article to read all about it.--A Y Arktos\talk 21:49, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

New lead
How about the following as the two lead paragraphs? I believe they reflect the discussion above. Edits welcome. Luigizanasi 17:17, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

A gold rush is a period of feverish migration of workers into the area of a dramatic discovery of commercial quantities of gold. Several gold rushes took place throughout the 19th century in the United States, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, and South Africa. Gold rushes helped spur permanent non-indigenous settlement of new regions and define a significant part of the culture of the North American and Australian frontiers. As well, at a time when money was based on gold, the newly-mined gold provided economic stimulus far beyond the gold fields.

The first significant gold rush was in the Appalachians in the United States, followed by the California Gold Rush of 1848-49 in the Sierra Nevada, which captured the popular imagination. Successive gold rushes occurred in western North America, gradually moving north: the Fraser Canyon, the Cariboo district and other parts of British Columbia, and the Rocky Mountains. The “last great gold rush” was the Klondike Gold Rush in Canada's Yukon Territory (1898-99), immortalized in the novels of Jack London, the poetry of Robert W. Service and films such as Charlie Chaplin’s The Gold Rush.

The Victorian gold rush, which occurred in Australia in 1851 soon after the California gold rush, was the most major of a number of Australian gold rushes. That gold rush was highly significant to Australia’s, and especially Victoria's and Melbourne's, political and economic development. In South Africa, the Witwatersrand Gold Rush in the Transvaal was equally important to that country’s history, leading to the founding of Johannesburg and tensions between the Boers and British settlers.

 * Thanks for this, I think it reads well. Changed first rush to most major for Australia - NSW was first (just).  Increased to three paragraphs to improve readability.  I think we will need to put in something about some other countries, not necessarily Scotland (Number of miners seems to have been about 600 which might be significant for Scotland but ... - the rush is mentioned in the chrolonology.) However, I think Russia produced major amounts of gold too - were there rushes in Russia?--A Y Arktos\talk 20:59, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks, good changes on your part. I added the new lead to the article and added a sentence about the significance of the California Gold Rush. The only decent reference to Russian gold rushes I have been able to find is here ; the Russian author is in Oz. There seem to have been at least two, one in the Urals near Ekaterinberg (1839) and another further east in Siberia in the Lena River basin near Irkutsk. Also, I believe Micheloud is wrong on the cyanide process used in the Klondike. The gold mined there is strictly alluvial, and the same placer deposits are still being mined to this day for the third or fourth time, still yielding paying dirt using mechanical means. I don't think we need to mention every gold rush in the lead, just the more significant/well-known ones. Luigizanasi 02:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Amur River rush, 1890s I think
Seem to recall this; I might have the 1890s confused with Granite City, in the Tulameen district of BC (just NW of a town called Princeton by about 20 miles, 150+ miles due east of Vancouver on the inland side of the Canadian Cascades, which has the same kind of placer deposit: mixed gold and platinum: as the Amur, which I know there was a rush on over at some point; although how Tsarist Russia managed the movement of people there I don't know; it couldn't have been the same, I think, because of the regulatory nature of movement in the Russian Empire; but there was a flurry of activity on the Amur I do know that, and I heard/saw the term "rush" associated with it. Anyone here know about this one?  I think there were Russian gold rushes somewhere else; can't remember where though.  Thought crossed my mind partly because of the comment about democratization in the California goldfields; it was the launching of that collective mining-management process that touched off alarm bells with Vancouver Island's Governor Douglas concerning the geopolitical fate of the BC mainland when the Fraser rush was in full swing; he had to assert colonial authority to prevent further inroads of the "California system" (as it was called in contemporary BC documents) and established a British-based licensing system (with most amendments wanted to please the miners) in order to prevent the evolution of a popularly-based legal/political system in what at the same time was declared to be a new colony. All this I'll get into in the Fraser Canyon Gold Rush article at some point; just noted here as an aside in terms of the comments overleaf.Skookum1 06:42, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

Where's the lure of Eldorado?
I was just scanning the article and on lines like this one:

''As well, at a time when money was based on gold, the newly-mined gold provided economic stimulus far beyond the gold fields.

...it crossed my mind that what was missing in the article is an important part of the gold rush mentality, and what a gold rush was; something more than just economic. The addition to the above line I'm mulling over would go something like. and inspired people in hard times with dreams of wealth. Not quite; I'll work on it. There's the whole fabled lure of gold, the underlying myth of Eldorado and sudden riches (so memorialized in the Klondike, but archetyped in California and BC and Australia), the magical quality to it above all other metals (at least until uranium came along, and that if anything is an even darker magic). Point is that gold rushes carried with them a mythology rooted in Cortez and Pizarro and the search for El Dorado and Cibola and the Seven Cities; this is especially the case with the western North American gold rushes because they were in the region where Cibola and its even more fabled northern neighbour Anian were said to lay, and had been sought avidliy by the Spanish across miles of ridiculously stark wasteland. The Spanish just missed, it seems, or didn't look hard enough, or because they presumed that they would find cities of gold like those of the Aztecs and Incas never bothered to prospect on their explorations (or perhaps even knew much about how to, come to think of it). Supposedly one of these expeditions made it as far north as Osoyoos, perhaps Keremeos; as both legend has it and a conquistador-style helmet or something of that kind in a mound near Keremeos, and the famous Okanagan Mission story has never quite been clarified; it seems to have been Mexican (or Spanish Empire anyway) pirates and sundry based at Bellingham Bay, according to one account; by another they came overland across the Columbia Plateau and up the Okanagan, but this is undocumented (SFAIK).

But the story of those missions, and the lost cities of gold, fired the imagination of those coming West and underlay its imagery and mythology and the knowledge that somewhere in the northwestern quadrant of the continent lay a HUGE body of gold; it was the Spanish Empire's early successes and ongoing dreams of this that fired up the Americans to acquire the West, much less go there, I'd say; i.e. I'd wager that it wasn't rank patriotism that drew many men West, but the lure of gold only; for that they crossed deserts and Indian Wars to seek Eldorado. And the name Eldorado indeed hangs over each of the gold regions of North America (I don't know about Aussie or Yarpie mine/claim names), with mine or claim names and also mountain names on the landscape, and if you read papers from any of the rushes that had them, you'll see Eldorado in use; what I'm getting at is its symbolic nature; the wealth of kings, in one small patch of land; find it, and the world is yours. THAT'S what gold rushes are about. This article needs more of that flavour; if I try to write it directly I think I'd get too intense; so might as well workshop the idea and see what y'all might come up with, if you got my point that is. The mythology of the red gold, the devil's metal, the metal that makes white men crazy, the craziness of the mining camps and the extroversion of mining culture; and the particular flavour of rowdy frontier party towns, with what women there were not attached to the church working on the other side of town, as itwere; the population of such places in North America's case anyway was ovewhelmingly male, although the Klondike is noted for the many successful women who did well with claims or with busineses founded en route; a sign of female participation in the gold economy that was not present in the Fraser Canyon or Cailfornia rushes and an earlier, less liberated tie; maybe in California, but at least not anywhere to the same degree; I don't know about Australia again, but from the references I've seen in BC histories about Australian precedents, and what I know about Aussies from the Outback (and the harsher suburbs or Sydney) I've known, it sounds pretty much the same.

So that's what I'd like to see; more colour, more romance. It's not all about economics, and gold rush culture has a special tone to it that deserves description.

Also weren't there gold rushes in Mexico, and elsewhere in Latin America? - i.e. not just the recent rapine strip-mining in the upper Amazonas of Brazil)Skookum1 06:44, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

 * Be delighted to help workshop this topic. I really don't know enough about gold rushes elsewhere, I will have to do more reading.--A Y Arktos\talk 10:28, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Cyanide in the Klondike
To follow up the note from above: "I believe Micheloud is wrong on the cyanide process used in the Klondike. The gold mined there is strictly alluvial, and the same placer deposits are still being mined to this day for the third or fourth time, still yielding paying dirt using mechanical means. ... Luigizanasi 02:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)" Can someone please check the Klondike book or other relevant sources - was cyanide important in South Africa and not elsewhere?--A Y Arktos\talk 10:28, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Er, my old roommate's brother has one of the only working claims on Bonanza Creek (Klondike); or at least it was 15 years ago when we went up for a brief pre-freezeup working visit (got out before the snow flew). I never did have a look at where Marty's concentrate went, but at the visible level of operations were a bulldozer, a loader (something like a backhoe) and a huge crusher/sluice.  The dozer and loader would scrape away at bedrock beneath the old till - what's left above bedrock after being turned over 3-5 times ("soil" it no longer is...) - trying to grind remaining gold out of crevices and cracks in the rock; then it would get scooped to the sluice.  But my impression was that a lot of it wasn't visible gold - that may have only been because the rocks holding it had to be broken, but AFAIK chemicals were still involved, though which ones I can't say, to separate gold-bearing rocks from the gold; in addition to what loose placer there remains up there; but in heavily-worked over areas there's extractive chemical process going on I think; I just don't know if it's cyanide or another process.Skookum1 17:28, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Chinese placer techniques
This crossed my mind while writing that bit about the Klondike just above. The Chinese role in any gold rush and their mining techniques should maybe be in this article, or a separate linked one. In BC's gold rush they were noticed for washing individual rocks for loose placer stuck to them, resulting in piles of washed rocks in areas they'd worked; they also helped develop hydraulic mining techniques and systems. Another technique that other miners marvelled at the ingenuity of was the use of blankets as filters in placer extraction, after large grains of gold and nuggets had already been sluiced or rockered; the wash-out from whatever placer machinery would flow through a wool blanket. After an appropriate time, the blanket would be burned, with the gold smelting in the fire and molten chunks emerging in the ashes afterwards. I recall, also, a National Geographic article from the '70s sometime on some strip mine in Nevada or elsewhere in the Great Basin which was working with very low-concentrate ores; huge amounts of ore would be smelted down and poured into conical moulds; the point of which would be solid gold due to its weight....Skookum1 17:36, 4 June 2006 (UTC)

Other Australian rushes
For those who are arguing needlessly about the chronology of the Australian gold rushs; this page may assist.

AFAIK there have been more than two simple gold rushes in Australia, not to detract from the Victorian or Kalgoorlie ones, but off the top of my head;
 * Majors Flat (1875); 36,000 Oz alluvials known of, 2,000 men averaging an ounce a day
 * Gympie (1867); 15,000 men in 6 months
 * Sofala-Ophir (1851)
 * Ravenswood; 30,000 men, 30 pubs!
 * Hill End (1870-1874), 8,000 men working reef gold

Deletions of the paragraph regarding Bodie, California
Another editor was not familar with this article and deleted the referenced paragraph because he thought it was poorly written and biased. I will restore the paragraph after a minor re-write. Ronbo76 22:25, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

 * The Bodie section is still poorly written. Note that this is an article on gold rushes, not gold mining towns.  Nothing is said about the rush to Bodie.  This material belongs instead in the separate article on Bodie, California.  All we need in the gold rush article is a wiki link to Bodie.Plazak 21:22, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

 * The Bodie section does not fit in this article. A link to the main article on Bodie, California should be under a section about the history or significance of Gold Rushes. I would say that the same goes for the Cripple Creek section. --Helm.ers 15:26, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

 * No one gave me any reason the Bodie section should even be in this article, so I eliminated it. All the same info is in the article on Bodie, California.  If there are not any objections, I will also delete the section on Cripple Creek.  Plazak 04:01, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Cripple Creek
Again, this article is on gold rushes, not gold mining towns. This material belongs in the separate articles on Cripple Creek, Colorado, and Victor, Colorado. Besides being misplaced, the section is full of errors. The district is by no objective measure the "World's Greatest." Float is not "lightweight rock." Stratton did not discover the Independence in 1901, nor did he sell it for $11 million.Plazak 21:42, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

 * No one sees any reason to have this blurb on the Cripple Creek district in the Gold rush article? OK, then out it goes.  I'm a big fan of Cripple Creek history, but this section said nothing about the rush to the district. Plazak 02:20, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

Worldwide point of view
If no one objects, I'd like to remove the tag at the beginning of the article warning that it may not reflect a world-wide point of view. I see that the US, Canada, Australia, New Zeeland, and South Africa are all represented here. I'd like to see more coverage of gold rushes in non-English speaking countries, but the article certainly covers a number of nations.Plazak 11:21, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm going to remove itr. Smith Jones 05:26, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Minas Gerais
According to Stefan Zweig the gold rush of Minais Gerais in 18th century Brazil was the biggest ever, even defeating the ones in South Africa and Klondyke. I didn't read his book ("Brasilien. Ein Land der Zukunft.") and have no further information, but I would appreciate it, if someone could evaluate this information and put it into this article.Hirsch.im.wald 19:21, 5 August 2007 (UTC).

That is a fact. I am a Brazilian student of history; unfortunately, i don't have the time to write too much for wikipedia now, but I can leave some useful sources -- see chapter 10 of http://www.amazon.com/Early-Latin-America-Colonial-Cambridge/dp/0521299292/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322842899&sr=1-1; and specially http://www.amazon.com/golden-age-Brazil-1695-1750-colonial/dp/B0007DWQO8/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1322843037&sr=1-2 If you read Portuguese, of course, there are plenty other sources; but these two are excellent.

Protected
I have semi-protected the article due to a number of vandalisms from anonymous ip addresses the last couple of days. Feel free to unprotect. ArchStanton 10:25, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Bar (landform) vs Bar (mining)
please see discussion at Talk:Shoal (disambiguation).Skookum1Skookum1 (talk) 19:21, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

Roman gold rushes
I don't see anything in the section Roman gold rushes that describes actual gold rushes as defined in the lead. It is useful information, but inappropriate in an article on gold rushes. Is there any reason that this section should not be moved to a history section of the article Gold mining? Plazak (talk) 00:38, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Countries listed in lead section
Hi. I've removed New Zealand, Argentina and Chile from being mentioned as places with the "main" gold rushes in the lead paragraph. I did this because, while the other countries listed have numerous events listed on this page, some even having their own sub section or even article, these three countries only have one event each throughout the entire article, and only New Zealand's has a source confirming it. They hardly qualify as being notable enough to be mentioned in the lead. 124.179.170.87 (talk) 10:15, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

The gold rush is also known as KASTA VERADA —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.148.224.59 (talk) 07:20, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

South Africa percentage
"South African gold production went from zero in 1886 to 223% of the total world output in 1896." How could it have more than 100% of the total world output?173.21.65.42 (talk) 20:25, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

 * I checked the ref.: it says 23%, not 223%. I assume the 223 was just a typo -- I didn't spend the time to see when that number showed up, or who was responsible. NameIsRon (talk) 16:56, 13 April 2011 (UTC)

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Wiki Education assignment: CALIFORNIA DREAMING, THE GOLDEN STATE'S RHETORICAL APPEALS
— Assignment last updated by TPWR2 (talk) 20:13, 9 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Gold rush


text:
User talk:Erik Carson

Not that I expect a lot of use here, but feel free.

Welcome
Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
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 * Looks like you were never properly welcomed --Dpr 17:24, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Erik Carson


text:
Talk:Michael Cretu

Untitled
This amazes me. Michael Cretu is the world's greatest living producer and yet he has no page on Wikipedia. WE, his fans surely have to do something about that! Please help. Any scrap of information, truthful information is worthy.

I wish that Wiki would let me type "Michael Cretu is the answer", or something stupid like that, but it would soon be edited out by more rational, factual people. Passion has a place, and it's probably not in an open encyclopedia ;-)

Anyway, come on people, let's make Michael's page one of the most accurate and informative musical artist's pages on Wikipedia.

 * I wrote the original stub, I've been planning on updating this for a while. I'll see if I can motivate myself in the next week to do more :) (and kudos to the anonymous person who has made a lot of the recent updates).  Incidentally, the German wiki page is excellent. --Zerbey 21:59, 13 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Excellent. Thanks very much for the information Zerbey. I will have to check out the German page. I'm sure that it will be fun translating it on Google, and then trying to understand it :-)

It would be excellent if we can get a really substantial page together, and make a lot of reference to it on the Enigma page. There are so many fans of Enigma in the world, and yet only the real fans know about Michael, his life, and his fantastic solo career before Enigma. I absolutely love music from so many wildly different styles, and yet for me he is the most perfect sounding producer in the world. His records right from the early days to the present day are just genius. I have now registered on Wikipedia too, so that I am no longer Anonymous :-) --Mart Owen 21:12, 07 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Happy Birthday Michael! --Mart Owen 14:16, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Ace new photo. Good stuff. It's amazing how you imagine a person from 15 years ago, still sitting behind a mixing console, or production facility, if you've not seen a "latest" photo. Good to see Michael looking happy and healthy, is all I can say. --Mart Owen 00:50, 11 June 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks Mart, Michael's looking well indeed, hope he's in a good shape and working on the newest album... ;) --Andylkl (talk) 08:49, Jun 11, 2005 (UTC)

Does any Wikipedian know why and how Michael left Romania? Was he leaving in a Nadia Comaneci style or in a George Palade style?

Is this guy's name Michael Cretu, or is it Crețu/Creţu? I ask because „Crețu” makes more sense in Romanian.
 * He changed his surname in order to avoid the letter "ţ", which is indisponsible on German keyboards. He was born as Mihai Creţu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.21.6.23 (talk) 14:45, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

It's been a while since this article has been overhauled and there are some major developments happening to Michael at the moment. He and Sandra have divorced in November 2008, and Michael's new mansion in the hills of Santa Anges, Ibiza, is currently facing legal difficulties, and demolition. Damm, I feel so sorry for the guy. I will try to get around to tidying a few things up, since I seem to have been contributing to this page for quite a while now (Since mid-2004). I thought I would post some information for other contributors to include in the page, just in case I don't get the free time.

http://ibiza-blog.com/2008/12/17/michael-cretu-high-stakes-poker-in-ibiza/

http://ibiza-blog.com/2008/12/17/michael-cretu-saga-on-ibiza/

http://www.myspace.com/sandracretuofficial  --- In particular the blog entries "My divorce from Michael" and "What’s new? My new page, and life beyond Michael"

Hopefully I will get some time soon, and update the information. We could also use a photograph, and one of those professional looking "biography boxes" like you see on the right side of many profile pages.

--Compost (talk) 03:53, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Just changed the birth name of Michael Cretu (in reference to the official management of Michael Cretu/ Enigma) as it is completely wrong that he was born as "Creturiu". This is clearly invention and has nothing to do with reality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Enigmaspace (talk • contribs) 23:49, 28 July 2009 (UTC)

Your Favorite Toy
I am sorry, but why Cretu's single "Your Favorite Toy" is not included in the list? 217.132.186.72 (talk) 15:23, 27 August 2009 (UTC)
 * ""Ruth-Ann Boyle "" performed Snow of the sahara, yet it was Angunn. Is there a method to do it,without clicking any lower pages buttons?romania be welcom`Math cat`ing (talk) 12:44, 1 April 2011 (UTC).

the writting for his name is Cre.%63.%01u using map of chr$ on displaythe lower page area

Category
I see that he is in the category Romanian pop singers. Does he sing too?--Mycomp (talk) 09:51, 26 February 2010 (UTC)
 * He sang a while ago and knowadays he works by keybord and guitar, not only solo but with Jens Gad and other stilish artists. Feel free to promote him to an english-language-artists singers or composers, if you consider it. Please contribute to this page with any means you can, especially that wikipedia allows updates by users. One thing to keep in mind is that he isn't just a romanian and german singer only, but because of Sandra Lauren -his wife, I'm sure she had loved him and supported him all the way, once stated. I don't think it is possible for them to get along anymore though :( on the same tracks 188.25.53.182 (talk) 16:47, 27 September 2010 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 23:51, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

German?
Why does it say he is Romanian-German. Is there such an ethnic group? Does he hold German citizenship? His mother was Austria so surely he is Romanian-Austrian living in Germany. Can some citations be given to indicate what he is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.249.23.158 (talk) 09:56, 14 October 2018 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:22, 24 September 2020 (UTC)
 * Michael Cretu 1985.jpg

title: Talk:Michael Cretu