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Cassandra Cain

Cassandra Cain (also known as Cassandra Wayne and Cassandra Wu-San) is a superheroine appearing in American comic books published by DC Comics, commonly in association with the superhero Batman. Created by Kelley Puckett and Damion Scott, Cassandra Cain first appeared in Batman #567 (July 1999). The character is one of several who have assumed the role of Batgirl. Over the years, she has also assumed the names of Black Bat and Orphan.

Cassandra's origin story presents her as the daughter of assassins David Cain and Lady Shiva. She was deprived of speech and human contact during her childhood as conditioning to become the world's greatest assassin. Consequently, Cassandra grew up to become an expert martial artist and developed an incredible ability to interpret body language to the point of reading complex thoughts, while simultaneously developing limited social skills and remaining mute and illiterate. She also becomes the adoptive daughter of Bruce Wayne/The Batman after she turns on her father and is one of Bruce's five children in current continuity (as well as his only daughter).

Cassandra was the first Batgirl to star in her own ongoing Batgirl comic book series. She was replaced as Batgirl by Stephanie Brown in a 2009 storyline. She returned in late 2010, where she was shown working as an anonymous agent of Batman in Hong Kong before adopting the new moniker of Black Bat. The character was brought back to mainstream continuity after the company-wide reboot in Batman & Robin Eternal, using the code name Orphan, previously used by her father, David Cain. The character's full history was restored in DC's 2021 Infinite Frontier relaunch.

The character made her cinematic debut in the DC Extended Universe film Birds of Prey, portrayed by Ella Jay Basco.

Publication history
Cassandra Cain first appeared in Batman #567 (July 1999), written by Kelley Puckett and penciled by Damion Scott (who are generally credited with her invention).

In 2000, Cassandra became the first Batgirl to be featured in an eponymous ongoing comic book series.

During the "War Games" story arc in 2004, Batman relies heavily on Cassandra to help control the violence of the gang war in Gotham City.

Cassandra took on the role of a villain by becoming the head of the League of Assassins following the "One Year Later" continuity jump, as established in Robin #150 (July 2006).

Cassandra then appears in Supergirl #14 (April 2007), battling the title character, (Kara Zor-El).

In Teen Titans vol. 3 #44 (April 2007), it was revealed that Cassandra battled Supergirl first, before attacking the Teen Titans with the Titans East.

Cassandra reappears later in the Robin series.

Cassandra next appears on the roster of Titans East once again wearing the Batgirl costume. Cassandra remained in the role of a villain, under the command of Titans East's leader, Deathstroke.

In October 2007, DC announced that Cassandra would be taking up the Batgirl identity as a member of the Outsiders in the upcoming Batman and the Outsiders ongoing series to be written by Chuck Dixon, which appears to, or is hoped to, begin resolving the controversy.

In February 2008, Dan DiDio revealed during a convention panel that writer Adam Beechen would be writing a "new Batgirl" miniseries. Beechen himself said that the story would resolve the questions over Cassandra's behavior and will be a setup for new Batgirl adventures.

In 2009, Cassandra passes the Batgirl identity to Stephanie Brown.

In July 2010, Cassandra appeared as one of the main characters in a short story written and drawn by Amanda Conner for Wonder Woman #600, where she helps Wonder Woman and Power Girl in a battle against Egg Fu.

After Bruce Wayne returns, it is revealed that Cassandra's disillusionment was a ruse, and that she had willingly handed over her Batgirl mantle to Stephanie because she was acting under her mentor's orders, and she is now working as a codename-less vigilante.

In 2011, in Grant Morrison's Batman Inc. series, it is revealed that Cassandra had taken up the name Black Bat.

At C2E2 2011, it was confirmed that Cassandra would be appearing as a main character in Scott Snyder and Kyle Higgins' mini-series Batman: Gates of Gotham.

After the New 52, Cassandra appeared in what appeared to be a variant timeline; however, at San Diego Comic-Con International 2015, James Tynion IV announced that Cassandra would be introduced into mainstream continuity in Batman & Robin Eternal.

February 4, 2020 was the debut of Cassandra Cain's first graphic novel, Shadow of the Batgirl, written by Sarah Kuhn and illustrated by Nicole Goux.

Early history
Cassandra's birth and childhood are revealed in the Batgirl series. While seeking a perfect bodyguard for Ra's al Ghul, David Cain finds a potential mother when he sees Sandra Wu-San fighting her sister Carolyn in a martial arts tournament. Believing that Sandra is holding back for Carolyn, Cain murders Carolyn and lures Sandra into a trap, sparing her life in exchange for giving birth to his child and leaving that child for him to raise. She agrees. After the birth of Cassandra, Sandra sets out to become Lady Shiva.

Cain trains Cassandra from birth to be an assassin. She is not taught to read or write; instead, reading body language is her only language. She is able to read people's movements and predict what they are going to do. When she is eight, Cain takes her to kill a businessman. As the man dies, Cassandra reads what he is feeling, realizes what she did, and runs away from her father.

After that, her activities are a mystery, until she first appears during the "No Man's Land" story arc.

No Man's Land
During the "No Man's Land" storyline, after Gotham is leveled by an earthquake and isolated, Cassandra Cain saves Commissioner Gordon's life and gains Bruce Wayne's approval, and, eventually, becomes the new Batgirl.

Her father, David Cain, sends a video of Cassandra's first murder to Bruce Wayne (Batman) attempting to disrupt her status. However, Wayne continues to accept Cassandra after she takes several bullets to save the life of a hired assassin, proving her devotion to protecting human life.

Batgirl
Bruce Wayne sends Cassandra to Barbara Gordon, currently functioning as Oracle. Barbara says she prefers to live alone but since Cassandra is never home and doesn't talk, it is just like living alone. A telepath "rewires" Cassandra's brain so that she can think with words and use language, but these abilities come at some cost to her ability to read people's body language. As she had relied completely on this ability to fight, she is unable to effectively fight crime. Worried, Bruce Wayne takes away her costume and begins training her in defensive skills.

Cassandra soon discovers that the assassin Lady Shiva can read people like she used to be able to and asks Shiva to reteach her. Lady Shiva accepts on the condition that they would have a duel to the death a year later. As Cassandra would rather be "perfect for a year" instead of "mediocre for a lifetime", she accepts the offer. When the women fight in a year's time, Cassandra dies within minutes. Shiva then restarts her heart, realizing Cassandra had a death wish, so that they can have a real fight. In the subsequent fight, Cassandra beats Shiva but does not kill her.

Though not known for her private life, Cassandra does have a one-time romance with Conner Kent after meeting him on a cruise ship. He shares her first kiss, and she even visits him at his home in Smallville, though the relationship never becomes serious.

Cassandra then helps Batman control the violence of a gang war in Gotham City.

Later, Batgirl moves to Blüdhaven with Tim Drake (the third Robin) at Batman's suggestion and with his financial support. There, Deathstroke takes on a contract from the Penguin to kill Batgirl and decides to let his daughter, Rose (the current Ravager), do the job instead. Cassandra beats Rose by playing on her emotions to leave her open for a critical strike, giving Deathstroke no choice but to get her medical attention.

During this time, Cassandra starts developing a friendship with Brenda, the woman who owns the local coffee shop, and even a very short-lived relationship with a boy named Zero. Unfortunately, her friends are all killed in the Blüdhaven disaster.

Cassandra also goes undercover for Batman, as Kasumi, in the Justice League Elite, working under Sister Superior to track and eliminate metahuman threats to the population. She works with the Batman's old fellow Justice League members Green Arrow and the Flash, and forms a bond with Coldcast, who is the first Leaguer to whom she reveals her identity. Although he is subsequently accused of murder, she and the rest of the team soon realize that he has been manipulated by renegade Elite member Menagerie, who was himself being manipulated by the spirit of Manchester Black as he tried to drive his sister to destroy London. As the JLA falls, the Elite, united by the spirit of the deceased Manitou Raven, free Vera and vanquish Black, although the team disbands after this last mission.

Cassandra gathers evidence that indicates that Shiva could be her mother, and seeks her out to confirm this, rejoining the League of Assassins. After she is proclaimed by Nyssa al Ghul as the "One Who Is All", the students of the League are split, half following Shiva, and the others Cassandra. In the following confrontation, Cassandra is mortally wounded by her "adoptive brother", the Mad Dog, while heroically saving one of the students under her leadership. Shiva revives Cassandra in a Lazarus Pit, then answers Cassandra's questions about her parentage. When Cassandra asked Shiva whether she was still killing, whether she would ever stop, Shiva says she was, and responds, "It's why I had you", so Cassandra agrees to fight her to the death once more.

After a closely matched battle, Cassandra manages to break Shiva's neck, paralyzing her. She appears ready to place Shiva in the Lazarus Pit, but Shiva pleads with her not to do so. Instead, Cassandra impales Shiva on a hook hanging over the pit, apparently killing her. Cassandra then abandons the identity of Batgirl and returns to her life as a wanderer.

One Year Later
Robin (Tim Drake) captures David Cain and brings him to the League of Assassins as ransom to free Cassandra, only to find that Cassandra is the new leader. Cassandra produces a gun and tells him to shoot Cain and join her league. Upon his refusal, she shoots Cain herself. Tim and Cassandra engage in a fight which ends when the platform they are fighting on explodes. By the time Tim comes back to the original location, Cassandra and Cain are gone and the ninjas' necks have been snapped. Tim had secretly recorded the conversation, clearing his name, but branding Cassandra as a murderer at the same time.

Brief Appearances
Cassandra next surfaces when she is hired by Dark Angel to kill Supergirl and attempts to do so by kidnapping Supergirl's friend, Captain Boomerang. Supergirl arrives at the League's Tibetan headquarters to confront Cassandra, where they fight. Cassandra uses swords that emit red sun energy which strips away Supergirl's powers. However, as Cassandra prepares to kill her, Supergirl mysteriously extrudes crystals from her body which injure Cassandra.

Later, Cassandra approaches Dodge, a wannabe superhero with teleportation powers, wanting him to steal a drug that gives humans metahuman strength in exchange for money. Cassandra (with an ally) plans to use the drug to create an army. She also makes another appearance where she murders the businessman who was producing that drug, who Robin has previously unsuccessfully attempted to bring to justice.

Teen Titans

Cassandra is left behind while Batman, Robin, and Nightwing leave for their year-long trip and Harvey Dent is charged with protecting Gotham instead of her. Deathstroke approaches Cassandra and preys on her desire for a loving father as well as her feelings of abandonment. Apparently, Deathstroke manages to inject Cassandra with drugs, from a distance, that warped her mind allowing for him to manipulate her to his liking.

Having gained control of his daughter, Deathstroke recruits her into Titans East, where she resumes the role and costume of Batgirl.

As a member of Titans East, she has a rematch with the Ravager and a brief confrontation with Robin, after which Robin injects Cassandra with a counter-serum (prepared in case Deathstroke regains control of his daughter), and she is apparently freed from Deathstroke's control and vows to kill Deathstroke to revenge herself.

However, some time later, when she is working with the Teen Titans, Miss Martian comments that she is more in control of herself now. She faces Deathstroke, Match, and other former Titans East teammates, before being subdued by Risk. Soon after, Cyborg, Raven, and Duela Dent summon former Titans Nightwing, Donna Troy, Beast Boy, and the Flash (Bart Allen), who join them against Deathstroke's team. Batgirl attempts to kill Deathstroke, but is stopped and knocked unconscious by Nightwing, who demands that Deathstroke face the courts. However, Deathstroke escapes from the Titans with the help of Inertia, and after the battle is over, Batgirl and Duela Dent both vanish without a word.

Batman and the Outsiders
Cassandra retakes the Batgirl mantle to join the Outsiders at Batman's request. She moves into the team's apartment, but does not show much desire to socialize with her teammates. Batman also offers membership to Green Arrow, who is furious to learn that the former leader of the League of Assassins is on the team as well. While on a mission, Green Arrow and Batgirl battle one another and end up gaining an unusual sort of respect for each other. The team as a whole begins to slowly accept Batgirl into their ranks after she frees all of them from the Chinese military.

After the loss of their leader in the 2008 "Batman R.I.P." storyline, the Outsiders are left in disarray. Cassandra, believing that Batman brought her onto the team for just such a contingency, takes command of the group. Together, they undertake a search for the Batman.

Batgirl (2008)
After Batman is found, Cassandra moves into Wayne Manor, on the trail of father and Deathstroke. She uses the Batcave's computer to locate them but is attacked by Nightwing, who claims she cannot be trusted. Robin and Batman give her the benefit of the doubt.

Due to her research, Cassandra learns that David Cain and Deathstroke started up a school training Cassandra's "sisters". When Cassandra hears that the school's purpose was to "cripple the meta-hero community", she believes Oracle is about to be assassinated and rushes to her base of operations. She locates her father on a rooftop and engages in a one-on-one fight, eventually sending him over a ledge. When he loses his grip, she tries to save him but fails; he falls to another part of the rooftop. Batman, who had followed her, accepts her into the family again and says he will adopt her and make her his daughter.

However, after Bruce Wayne's apparent death, Cassandra, apparently disillusioned, passes the cowl to her close friend, Stephanie Brown, then she leaves Gotham.

Black Bat
After Bruce Wayne returns, it is revealed that Cassandra's disillusionment was a ruse, and that she has willingly handed over her Batgirl mantle to Stephanie because she was acting under her mentor's orders in the event of his death or disappearance, and gone undercover, using Tim Drake as a regular contact. Following Bruce Wayne's public announcement about his intention to create a global team of Batmen, Tim visits Cassandra in Hong Kong, where she has been acting as an codename-less vigilante. He attempts to persuade Cassandra to return to Gotham now that things have returned to normal, but she refuses, saying that Stephanie needs the Batgirl role more than she does. Just before departing, Tim gives Cassandra a copy of her old costume and tells her that if she chooses to stay and fight crime in Hong Kong, he hopes she will do it while wearing a Bat-symbol.

Cassandra takes Tim up on his offer, and joined up with Bruce's new group, now wearing a heavily modified costume that uses her original outfit as a base. She now uses the name of Black Bat, and among other activities brings down a heroin-smuggling operation in Hong Kong.

After a new supervillain named the Architect destroys three Gotham bridges with the help of explosives smuggled from Hong Kong, resulting in the deaths of dozens of civilians. Cassandra, feeling guilty over her failure to stop the explosives from leaving China, returns to Gotham and partners with Red Robin, Dick Grayson, and Damian Wayne (the newest Robin) to bring the Architect to justice. During a stakeout at Oswald Cobblepot's nightclub, Cassandra is mocked and berated by Damian, who tells her that he is a better hero and that Bruce likely sent her to Hong Kong as a demotion. Despite Damian's hostility toward her, Cassandra ultimately saves his life after pulling him out of the club mere seconds before it is destroyed by a bomb. And after Dick discovers that the Architect plans to flood Gotham and kill thousands of civilians, Cassandra and Damian work together to dispose of the explosives that were supposed to sink the city. Once the Architect is defeated and captured, Cassandra decides to stay in Gotham rather than return to Hong Kong.

Cassandra later infiltrates a tournament for hired killers and rescues Red Robin, who had been captured and was about to be sexually assaulted by the half-sister of Ra's al Ghul. After rescuing Tim, Cassandra apparently kills him with a katana, thus winning the tournament for herself. But in fact, she has merely faked Red Robin's death to allow him to escape. The two then travel to Hong Kong to catch a 10-year-old assassin known as the Cricket, but are easily defeated. Just as Cassandra and Tim fall into unconsciousness, the Cricket vows to face them again someday, and tells them that he hopes they will put up a better fight next time.

The New 52
In what might be a variant timeline, Cassandra is a member of Barbara Gordon's League of Batgirls, operating on the field under her leadership alongside fellow Batgirls Stephanie Brown and Tiffany Fox. Her father, David Cain, is portrayed as a character named the "Orphan", who raises Cassandra alone and forces her not to speak but to "listen" to body movements and react accordingly with deadly precision. She was intended to be a "gift" to the villain "Mother", to show her that child assassins can be manipulated through "the old ways" instead of through the use of drugs, but "Mother" rejected her and told Orphan never to do anything behind her back again. Although she is used by Mother to kill Miranda Row, mother of Batman's new ally Harper Row, at the conclusion of the storyline, Harper forgives Cassandra for her role in her mother's death, while Cassandra's own father David sacrifices himself to kill Mother by trapping her in her disintegrating fortress, refusing to allow her to torture others in the future. At the storyline's conclusion, Cassandra adopts her father's identity of Orphan to continue protecting others.

DC Rebirth
As Orphan, Cassandra is later inducted into Batman and Batwoman's "boot camp" for young Gotham vigilantes. Orphan is known for being the best fighter on the team. She tries to fight the team's battles alone and is known for sneaking into Stephanie Brown's and Harper Row's apartments in the middle of the night. When Batman is attacked by the Colony, she tries to take them on by herself and is left injured and later sedated after leading the Colony into their base. Clayface helps Batwoman, Red Robin, Spoiler, and the injured Orphan escape.

Batman and the Outsiders
Cassandra was a part of the latest Outsiders team, alongside Batman, Black Lightning, Katana, and Signal.

Batman: The Joker War Zone
In this anthology comic, Cassandra and Stephanie Brown fight the Hench Master in Bludhaven. At the end of the story, both she and Stephanie reclaim the Bat symbol and Cass's costume becomes very similar to her previous Batgirl costume. In Infinite Frontier #0, Barbara Gordon – now primarily operating as Oracle again – explains to Huntress that Stephanie and Cass share the Batgirl title, but that she reserves the right to occasionally suit up as Batgirl in future.

Infinite Frontier
Cassandra makes more sporadic appearances in the main Batman series, like her helping Batman during the Fear State event as well as her teaming up with Stephanie Brown for their own Batgirls series. Cassandra Cain also tries to defeat Failsafe (a robot designed by Batman to take him down in case he went rogue) but fails and is temporarily captured before freed. She also confronted Batman during Gotham War for his recent violent actions due to Batman's trauma in traveling the Multiverse and Knight Terrors but is swiftly defeated. During the Lazarus Planet event, she meets a Non-binary warrior name Xanthe Zhou but is captured by spirits and sent to the Spirit world. During Titans: Beast World she confronts a mutated Huntress but manages to calm her down.

Skills and training
Like the rest of the Batman family, Cassandra has no superhuman powers. As a child, she received intensive training by her father, along with several other members of the League of Assassins, including Bronze Tiger, Merlyn the archer, and a series of instructors hired by her father, including Alpha. Upon taking the mantle of Batgirl, she was trained further by Batman, Oracle, Black Canary, and by Lady Shiva. She received supplementary instruction from Onyx. She is an amazing hand-to-hand combatant and is highly skilled in several martial arts, including Kung Fu, Jeet Kune Do, Muay Thai, and Ninjutsu. She was also very briefly trained in detective methods by Tim Drake during their time in Blüdhaven.

Cassandra's superiority in combat results not just from her excellent physical condition, but from her cognitive functions (the result of her idiosyncratic upbringing) that enables extraordinary feats of coordination as well as perceiving minute changes in an opponent's movements and body language. In Batgirl #14 (May 2001), the writer, Kelley Puckett, places Cassandra in a position within the story in which her skills are analyzed by a group of government experts. The creative team reveals to the reader that the character has no metagene. Yet her genetic status was felt to be incompatible with her recorded abilities. One expert states, "Her individual moves are borderline human. It's her aggregate speed that's metahuman. Look—humans can throw a 100 miles-per-hour fastball, smash concrete blocks with their heads, and run 4.2 forties. What they can't do is all of that at once. It's not so much physical as... as mentally impossible. Too much to coordinate."

Her upbringing using body language as her exclusive mode of communication also had the effect of enabling her to "read" minute changes in an opponent's expressions, breathing, muscles, joint position, and center of gravity which in turn allows her to see or "predict" an opponent's moves before they happen. It is possible this ability is only partially the result of her upbringing and that there is a genetic predisposition to it, since Lady Shiva, Cassandra's mother, is the only other martial artist known in the DC universe to have this ability. When a telepath "rewired" Cassandra's brain to allow her speech, this had the unintended consequence of blocking her ability to "predict" attacks, as though her ability to comprehend physical language was traded for her ability to speak and read. Eventually, Lady Shiva helped her to regain this ability, but how this was done is never revealed.

Cassandra also exhibits extraordinary resistance to pain. On more than one occasion, she has been described as "being able to take a bullet wound and not even bat an eye," due to additional training received as a child.

Language skills
As a side effect of her father's training, Cassandra's brain developed learning functions different from most. Having been brought up by Cain deliberately without speech, the communication centers of her brain learned body language instead of spoken or written language. Thus, she originally had as much trouble learning spoken and written language as a normal individual would have in learning body language. Although she was able to learn some very basic things ("no", "yes", "me") the same way a normal person can learn to recognize smiles and frowns, it took a telepath "rewiring" her brain to teach her to speak and understand English. Even then, she only spoke with extreme difficulty (very falteringly, short sentences with long pauses, frequently using the wrong words, etc.). In Batgirl #67 (October 2005), Oracle performed a number of tests on Cassandra, determining the severity of the problem: "The language centers of your brain are all over both hemispheres. Not centralized like with most people. When you try to read or write, your brain doesn't know how to keep it cohesive."

In the 2008 Batgirl miniseries, the first issue delves into an explanation as to Cassandra's increased verbal and literary skills. It is explained that during the year in which Batman, Nightwing, and Robin were abroad, Cassandra and Alfred took it upon themselves to help develop the skills that she lacked due to her less than conventional childhood. By day, she took speech and ESL courses. The formal training aided her thought processes related to language and thus her verbalization improved rapidly.

Costume and equipment
Cassandra's costume as Batgirl is composed of black skin-tight leather. Her mask covers all of her head with the exception of the eyes, which are darkened, and symbolic stitches surround the mouth of the mask. Cassandra wears a yellow-rimmed black logo rather than the yellow bat version of the logo worn by Barbara. The costume was first created and worn by the Huntress in the early stages of "No Man's Land".

Like the other members of the Bat-Clan, Cassandra's Batgirl also wears a yellow-pouched utility belt which contains grappling hooks, batarangs, mini-explosives, tracking devices, a hand-held computer, binoculars, PlastiCuffs, and smoke pellets. However, Cassandra rarely uses any of these devices.

The costume displays slight variations in Titans East. The cape shows a yellow lining and Cassandra wears a "capsule" utility belt rather than pouches. In Teen Titans vol. 3 #43, the once hollow bat-symbol appears to have been filled in and her cape is once again completely black; a new line of stitching goes up the forehead of her cowl. This version of the costume apparently results from one artist's interpretation, as Cassandra's appearances elsewhere (i.e., Supergirl and Batman and the Outsiders) show her wearing her standard Batgirl costume.

Her costume as Black Bat incorporates her former Batgirl costume, with some modifications. She now wears a domino mask and exposes the rest of her face and head. Her cape is now severely torn, looking ragged and almost smoke-like. Her hands are wrapped in bandages rather than her former scalloped bat-gloves.

The costume she currently wears as Orphan consists of a form-fitting longsleeved black top, gloves, and full head mask; occasionally she has worn a variant with an attached hood and no mask. Her pants are looser and baggier in the thighs to allow greater flexibility with her acrobatics, and she wears knee-high black boots. The entire costume has yellow accents, with small armor plates in strategic areas on the torso and arms, and includes a yellow utility belt.

Controversy
Critical reception of Cassandra's villainous turn in the "One Year Later" storyline was mixed. In general, the portrayal of Tim Drake was praised, whereas Cassandra's depiction was not. Upon being asked if Cassandra's characterization was editorially mandated, writer Adam Beechen stated, "When I came to the book, I was told that the first arc would deal with presenting Cassandra as a major new enemy for Robin. From there, I worked out the details of just how that would come about with our initial editor, Eddie Berganza, and then his successor, Peter Tomasi." In a follow-up interview, he clarified further, stating, "They didn't present me with a rationale as to why Cassandra was going to change, or a motivating factor. That was left for me to come up with and them to approve. And we did that. But as far as to why the editors and writers and whoever else made the decision decided that was a good direction, I honestly couldn't answer."

In interviews and press conferences, Dan DiDio and others have stated that Cass will "be going back to basics", as in her early adventures before she was able to talk. Later, Geoff Johns was quoted as saying, "We will be addressing in Teen Titans exactly what the deal is with her. Is she a bad guy? How? Why? She was a completely different character before 'One Year Later,' so let's find out what happened."

According to Wizard Magazine #182, the storyline was "one of the most controversial changes to come out of DC's 'One Year Later' event", and "fans rose up in arms, organizing websites and letter-writing campaigns to protest the change." Dan Didio commented, "I'm glad to see there was a reaction created, it shows that people care about the character and want to see something happen with her."

Other versions

 * In the alternate timeline portrayed in the "Titans Tomorrow" storyline in Teen Titans, Cassandra was mentioned as having been murdered by Duela Dent. Years later, Tim Drake (now the new Batman) killed Duela in retaliation.
 * In the timeline depicted in the sequel, Titans Tomorrow... Today!, Cassandra is portrayed as the successor to the Batwoman mantle, and a member of Lex Luthor's Titans Army.
 * A toddler version of Cassandra appears in several issues of Tiny Titans. She is a friend of Barbara Gordon and Stephanie Brown.
 * In The New 52: Futures End, Cassandra appears as a member of the League of Batgirls alongside Stephanie Brown and a young African-American girl named Tiffany Fox (the daughter of Lucius Fox). Her friendship with Stephanie appears to have remained intact.
 * In the DC Comics Bombshells universe, Cassandra is a Chinese heroine known as Black Bat. After the end of World War II, she returns to her home country to help rebuild and make life better for the young girls there.

Collected editions
Most of the 2000 Batgirl ongoing series, as well as the 2008 miniseries, has been collected into trade paperbacks.

Other collected editions

 * Bruce Wayne: Murderer? (Batgirl #24)
 * Bruce Wayne: Fugitive vol. 1 (Batgirl #27, #29)
 * Bruce Wayne: Fugitive vol. 3 (Batgirl #33)
 * Batman: War Games, Act 1 (Batgirl #55)
 * Batman: War Games, Act 2 (Batgirl #56)
 * Batman: War Games, Act 3 (Batgirl #57)
 * Ghost/Batgirl: The Resurrection Machine (a 4-part miniseries crossover with Ghost, a Dark Horse Comics character)
 * Bruce Wayne: Murderer? (New Edition) (Batgirl #24, #27)
 * Bruce Wayne: Fugitive (New Edition) (Batgirl #29, #33)
 * Batman: War Games Vol. 1 (Modern Release) (Batgirl #53, #55)
 * Batman: War Games Vol. 2 (Modern Release) (Batgirl #56, #57)

Television

 * Cassandra Wu-San / Orphan appears in Young Justice. This version is a member of Batman Incorporated, later the Team, who had her vocal cords removed by her mother, Lady Shiva, as an infant and was originally with the League of Shadows before Batgirl convinced her to defect, though Cassandra inadvertently paralyzed her in the process.
 * Cassandra Cain / Batgirl appears in Batwheels, voiced by Leah Lewis. This version is cheerful, lighthearted, and able to communicate.

Film

 * Cassandra Cain appears in Birds of Prey, portrayed by Ella Jay Basco. This version is a twelve-year-old pickpocket who lives with neglectful foster parents and idolizes Harley Quinn. After unknowingly pilfering a diamond that Roman Sionis sought after, Cain joins forces with Quinn, Dinah Lance, Renee Montoya, and Helena Bertinelli to defeat Sionis and his forces. Afterwards, Cain gives the diamond to the group before becoming Quinn's apprentice.
 * An alternate universe incarnation of Cassandra Cain named Kai Li Cain appears in Batman: The Doom That Came to Gotham, voiced by Tati Gabrielle.

Video games

 * Cassandra Cain / Batgirl appears in Batman: Toxic Chill.
 * Cassandra Cain / Batgirl makes a cameo appearance in Batman: Dark Tomorrow.
 * Cassandra Cain / Batgirl appears in Batman: Justice Unbalanced.
 * Cassandra Cain / Batgirl appears in DC Universe Online, voiced by Mindy Raymond.
 * Cassandra Cain / Batgirl appears as a playable character in the mobile version of Injustice: Gods Among Us.

Miscellaneous

 * Cassandra Cain / Batgirl appears in the audiobook adaptation of Batman: No Man's Land, voiced by Nanette Savard.
 * Cassandra Cain / Batgirl makes a cameo appearance in Batman: The Brave and the Bold #13.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Cassandra Cain


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Talk:Exit counseling

This article seems to have a potential pro-cult, or at least anti-anti-cult slant. Samrolken 05:20, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Sincerely, I don't see where's the slan...--euyyn 10:00, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * It used to have an anti-anti cult slant. Andries 16:19, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Ed, I think it is unfair and inaccurate to write that exit counseling is voluntary depropgramming. Depropgramming is by definition involuntary. Andries 08:42, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * To my knowledge, CAN introduced the term in order to distance itself from crimes committed by the deprogrammers, improve the image of the occupation and to seek recognition similar to that of psychoanasys. I think that it would probably make sense to add a history of exit counselling. (ExitControl)

There is no danger in confusing something defined as "voluntary deprogramming" as involuntary, so I don't see why this article is non-neutral.--Tengen 02:04, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Tengen, true, I did not think of that, but deprogramming is illegal and has a negative connotation so I think it incorrect to say that exit-coundelling is voluntary deprogramming. I changed it accordingly. Andries 09:00, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * In Recovery from Cults (working on an entry for the book in the article) it states in chapter 8 Exit Counseling A Practical Overview:"Exit counseling is distinguished from deprogramming, which received much media coverage in the late 1970s and 1980s, in that the former is a voluntary process, whereas the latter is currently associated with a temporary restraint of the cultist." The contributors to that section are: David Clark, Carol Giambalvo, Noel Giambalvo,M.S., Kevin GGarvey, Michael Langone, Ph.D.* I dare say too that many that suffered the deprogramming process often seemed to need help in recovering from that trauma. Deprogramming is a violation in my opinion on ones civil liberties without due process and is a violent process. I am also looking into peer-exit counseling as that seems to be an over looked area too and one that in my opinion seems in line with standard peer counseling in general.PEACETalkAbout 16:29, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Merging Exit counseling and Deprogramming
The main article on exit counseling starts unfairly with a pro-cult biased slant. It ignores the very real phenomenon of mind control. It fails to acknowledge the incalculable pain and suffering inflicted by mind-controlling groups such as Boston Church of Christ and Jehovah's Witness, as well as many smaller groups. Unfortunately, the mainstream counseling community has failed to recognize the role of mind control in abusive-group situations. A key aim of exit counseling is to reveal the techniques of mind control. The group member can then decide whether he or she has experienced such techniques in their own group.

Sure, there is disagreement about what constitutes "mind control" -- just as there used to be disagreement about what constitutes "alcoholism." Today we look for genes that confer susceptibility to alcoholism; tomorrow, we'll look for mind control susceptibility. But until the mainstream psychologists and psychiatrists take up their responsibility, exit counseling will be the main hope for victims of a wide-ranging form of social pathology. (L)

I propose to have one article with both subjects covered in which the distictions between the two can be explored. A possible title "Deprogramming and exit counseling", with previous titles redirecting to the new article. --Zappaz 01:32, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * I do not agree. Voluntarily talking somebody out of his religion is basically different from doing this unvoluntarily. Andries 06:49, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

 * If we're running short of space we could merge Cult and New religious movement.  ;)

 * But seriously; a necessity for any merger is the elimination of duplication. And we can eliminate duplication even without doing the merger, so there is no impediment to improving the articles under their present names. Cheers, -Willmcw 07:53, Mar 24, 2005 (UTC)

Exit counseling is not two wrongs make a right. I think thinking something like that is hasty generalization or possably guilt by association. I might have the wrong fallacy, but I know it's a logical fallicy to think that because brainwashing people to think certain things is wrong, brainwashing is wrong. It's like thinking that because dragging an unconcious man into a fire is wrong, dragging him out is wrong.

I'd also like to point out that aulthough technically "exit counseling is voluntary deprogramming" doesn't make sense, it is commonly used, like in "a bull is a male cow". Perhaps it should be changed to "exit counseling is the same as deprogramming, exept voluntary." Daniel 7 July 2005 02:33 (UTC)

Totally disputed
Makes deprogramming seem natural. Skirts over renaming issue.

Depicts deprogrammer Rick Ross as following a code of ethics? He's the guy who talked the FBI and ATF into double-crossing the Branch Davidians and attacking Waco with a tank and incendiary grenades.!

 * The content of the information involves usually the family concerns which were the reason for the exit counseling, the nature of mind control, doctrinal, ideological and organizational issues of the respective group, including especially information which is usually not available to followers like an analysis of internal group documents.

Using the word "information" in this context implies that its '''true information" - same with "analysis".

And "nature of mind control" means the unsupported theory that cults use mind control - repudiated by the APA as "not scientific".

We should not be slam-dunking the deprogrammers (renamed innocuousoly exit counselors) perhaps, but we certainly should not be white-washing them either. Uncle Ed 04:14, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Steve Hassan wrote in his book "Breaking the bonds" that in the case of exit counseling you have to be careful, because otherwise the cultist will simply walk away. In other words, this indicates that Hassan's method of exit counselling is 100% voluntary. Andries 07:11, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Exit Counselling vs. Deprogramming
I have done quite a bit of research on cult interventions, and had the privledge to be accepted to present a research paper at a CESNUR conference last year (http://www.cesnur.org/2005/pa_brown.htm). Deprogramming is divided into voluntary and involuntary. Voluntary Deprogramming was renamed Exit Counseling. During some research I can across a paper that referred to an unpublished AFF letter where the suggestion was made to change the name from Voluntary Deprogramming to Exit Counseling. I will try to find that paper again and pass it on to everyone it on to everyone

Hi,

I would disagree with this MERGING for the following reasons:

 * 1. Exit Counselling can be done by peers and be most beneficial.
 * 2. Exit Counselling is to assist the individual in sorting themselves out....main point is they are willing participants.
 * 3. Exit Counselling can be harmed by MERGING with DEPROGRAMMING. By making individuals more likely to fear participation.
 * 4. Exit Counselling can be a positive thing, at an individuals own pace and they are not dragged kicking and screaming into what the "Programmer" sees as a reality.
 * 5. Exit Counselling can build a positive relationship with the therapist, the former members etc., where Deprogramming doesn't.
 * 6. Exit Counselling by and large is facilitated by open/willing participation by the individual and their support system.
 * 7. Exit Counselling is some thing available to the individual, even if they drop out. In fact there is a growing need in this area mainly due to financial constraints of former members. Most can not pay for therapy.

IF anything most post cult/New Religious Movement/Sects have complaints that they couldn't access Exit Counselling and form forums, groups to assist each other in a peer Exit counselling fashion.

Please keep them separate. PEACE TalkAbout 21:49, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree with keeping them separate. The aspect of voluntary vs. forced is a key element. Likewise, the premise of deprogramming is that the "cult" has taken away the recruit's free will, which also relates to the aspect of voluntary vs. forced.

 * Mind control and Brainwashing start with the premise that the victim's ability to make choices has been compromised by the bad guys (U.S. cult leadersor Communist Chinese). Deprogramming assumes that the recruit is a victim of mind control or brainwashing. The possibility that he was a sincere religious seeker who voluntarily and knowingly joined a New religious movement is not considered.

 * Exit counseling may or may not begin with the 'victim' premise, but Voluntary Exit Counseling at least respects the wishes of the client.

 * Much ink has been spilled to obscure the distinction between the voluntary vs. forced aspect of deprogramming. Sometimes forcing the recruit out of the cult is justified on the grounds that he "lost his free will" there and the deprogrammers are "giving it back". However, this is just their POV. It is not an objective fact.

 * We should retain all information on the scientific dispute between supporters and opponents of the Mind control theory. --Uncle Ed 13:35, 10 August 2006 (UTC)

I think they should be kept separate. (XOR)

I agree, the two articles describe different topics and should be kept seperate. Exit counselling is clearly different than deprogramming.--Fahrenheit451 06:28, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

==Merge== Exit counseling is already discussed in Deprogramming. It is a fairly minor topic and perhaps the two articles should be merged. Kitfoxxe (talk) 13:08, 31 December 2013 (UTC) Blocked sock.
 * It could also be merged to Clinical psychology. From this article it looks like only a handful of people do something they call "exit counseling." Borock (talk) 05:29, 1 January 2014 (UTC) Blocked sock.
 * I agree that "Exit counseling" doesn't warrant a stand-alone article, particularly as both articles focus on coercive types. Recent soc/psych lit uses the term "exit counseling" to describe therapies targeted at people who have voluntarily left a broader range of high-commitment groups (not restricted to NRMs) and who have issues arising from that experience. Because coercive deprogramming (a subset of intervention methods) has largely been abandoned by even the secular and religious anti-cult groups, I also wonder whether "Deprogramming" is the best article into which a description of exit counseling should be merged. Perhaps both coercive Deprogramming and more affirming exit counseling could be merged as sections within a single article with a non-offensive title that highlights the "exiting" aspect (e.g., something better than "Issues in leaving religious groups"). • Astynax talk 11:12, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Probably 99% of people who know what it is have [not] heard of exit counseling.Borock (talk) 17:39, 1 January 2014 (UTC)  Blocked sock.
 * I agree. However, the deprogramming term has a bunch of media-induced hysterical baggage left over from the 1970s and 1980s (mindless, sinister, koolaid-guzzling zombie cult members vs. sinister, waterboarding, cross-wielding deprogrammers, neither of which reflected reality). Leaving redirects for both Exit counseling and Deprogramming would get people to a more inclusive article that covered both. The entire topic of brainwashing has been revisited in recent sociological lit (in a conversation initiated by scholars such as Benjamin Zablocki and Stephen Kent) and there seems to be a consensus gathering around the idea that the phenomenon does exist, but that such social conditioning is also accepted in many religions that are regarded as mainstream as well as in other areas of life (corporate, military, political, etc.) to the extent that it imposes unwarranted value judgments to single out NRMs for special (i.e., polemical) scrutiny unless the conditioning is clearly a part of destructive behaviors. I'm merely observing that it is probably not productive to subsume a topic (voluntary exit counseling of whatever type) that still retains some credibility under a title that specifically denotes a specific and almost totally discredited outlook and methodology (deprogramming). It seems a bit like merging Socialism under the Communism title. As an alternative, perhaps Exit counseling could be expanded to include types of exit counseling other than cult-related, with the existing material condensed and referenced, if we could get some input from Psychology project and Psychiatry task force members to add some content. • Astynax talk 20:53, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Incidentally (and not directly related), the last time I checked Communism it was mainly about Marx's ideal society not the history of what we call "communism." Kitfoxxe (talk) 22:45, 1 January 2014 (UTC) Blocked sock.
 * I think there should be a section on exit counseling in deprogramming since it is mainly known as a deprogramming alternative, even if this article is redirected someplace else. Borock (talk) 05:18, 2 January 2014 (UTC) Blocked sock.
 * Exit counseling seems to be a type of Counseling psychology, as far as I can tell. I agree that it should have have a section in Deprogramming. Kitfoxxe (talk) 10:20, 2 January 2014 (UTC)  Blocked sock.
 * I vote for a section in each article, with the redirect going to the section in Counseling psychology. That way we wouldn't be saying that exit counseling is a type of deprogramming, but still recognizing that they are related. Borock (talk) 22:24, 2 January 2014 (UTC)  Blocked sock.

 * Agree with merge Exit-counseling > deprogramming as a subsection. Zambelo (talk) 22:05, 5 January 2014 (UTC) Blocked sock.
 * That seems to be the consensus, so far. Borock (talk) 07:07, 6 January 2014 (UTC) Blocked sock.

title: Talk:Exit counseling


text:
Powelton Village, Philadelphia

Powelton Village is a neighborhood of mostly Victorian, mostly twin homes in the West Philadelphia section of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. It is a national historic district that is part of University City. Powelton Village extends north from Market Street to Spring Garden Street, east to 32nd Street, west to 40th and Spring Garden Streets, and to 44th and Market Streets.

History
Powelton Village takes its name from the Powel Family, 17th and 18th century Welsh colonialists who held extensive estates in the area. Samuel Powel served as mayor of Philadelphia from 1775 to 1776 and again from 1789 to 1790. As in other parts of West Philadelphia, in the late 1800s trolley lines opened the area up to urbanization. Powelton soon became a choice residential spot for Philadelphia industrial tycoons.

Powelton's luster began to wane by the 1920s, and by the 1940s the neighborhood was populated by low-income families. In the 1960s the Village was home to many members of the counterculture movement, and Powelton today enjoys a strong political activism and anarchist tradition, as well as a healthy multiethnic pluralism.

In addition to the Powelton Historic District, the Bell Telephone Exchange Building, The Powelton, Frederick A. Poth Houses, and John Shedwick Development Houses are listed on the National Register of Historic Places.

Neighborhood

Commercial activity in Powelton Village is concentrated on Lancaster Avenue between 35th and 39th St. Years ago, a developer called this portion of Lancaster Avenue “The Rodeo Drive of West Philly” and this is slowly becoming a reality. Many local businesses benefit from both Powelton residents and college students.The Avenue is lined with shops, restaurants and other retail establishments including a bank, locksmith, dance studio, juice bar, gym, vintage clothing stores, barber shop, Philly's largest gaming shop, jewelry and textile stores, two coffee shops, and Asian, Indian, and Philly fare restaurants.

Residential streets are mostly lined with Victorian twin houses, some of which are traditional family homes, while others have been subdivided into apartments. Detached houses, row houses, and apartment buildings also dot the neighborhood.

The southern end of Powelton Village includes property owned by Drexel University. Many students from Drexel live off-campus in Powelton's urban-structured row-house apartments because of the short walk to campus.

Transportation
Powelton is easily accessed by automobile and public transportation. The neighborhood is close to Interstate 76, and several major streets, including Market, Spring Garden, and 34th, cross the neighborhood. Bike lanes run along Haverford Avenue, Spring Garden Street and its bridge, Lancaster Avenue, and on 38th and 34th Streets south of Lancaster Avenue.

The neighborhood is close to two subway stops on the Market–Frankford Line, located at 34th and Market and 40th and Market. Powelton is also easily accessed by trolley: the route 10 trolley runs on 36th Street between the Ludlow Street portal and Lancaster Avenue, continuing west on Lancaster Avenue. Additionally, there are two underground trolley stops close to Powelton: 33rd and Market, serving all trolley lines, and 36th and Sansom, serving all lines except route 10. Bus route 31 runs through the neighborhood, traveling north on 33rd, Baring, and 35th, and south on 37th, Baring, and 34th. Route 43 runs east on Spring Garden Street and west on Haverford Avenue. The neighborhood is adjacent to 30th Street Station, which serves all Northeast Corridor trains, the New Jersey Transit Atlantic City Line, and all Regional Rail lines, as well as the Market-Frankford Line and the subway-surface trolley lines.

Arts and culture
Several art and photo galleries have opened along Lancaster Avenue from 36th to 40th. The Community Education Center, at 35th and Lancaster, holds various community events and gatherings. Spiral Q Puppet Theater is located on Spring Garden Street between 31st and 32nd Streets. Nearby destinations include The Bridge, a movie theater at 40th and Walnut; and the Philadelphia Zoo at 34th and Girard.

During Lancaster Avenue's "Second Fridays," shops and galleries are open later and often have various specials, and the event often features live music.

Education and Hospitality
Public education choices include the Samuel Powel Elementary School at 36th and Powelton, the Drew School at 37th and Lancaster, and University City High School at 36th and Filbert. The University of Pennsylvania and Drexel University have significant presences in the neighborhood, as well as in adjacent areas to the south.

To serve these two universities, several hotels are located nearby, including the Sheraton at 36th and Chestnut, and The Inn at Penn, located between 36th & 37th Sts. on Sansom St. In Powelton proper, there are several bed-and-breakfasts, including the Cornerstone at 33rd and Baring Sts..

title: Powelton Village, Philadelphia


text: Category:Swift County, Minnesota

title: Category:Swift County, Minnesota


text:
Talk:Beehive (beekeeping)

Untitled
I am looking for plans for a Smith beehive. If you can send me one please e mail me at

Many thanks

Richard Wildy

Merge/Move to Wikibooks
There's Langstroth hive and Top-bar hive. Are there others? Those pages are getting pretty detailed. Perhaps some of that information would be better off being moved to wikibooks? Ewlyahoocom 02:01, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * I recommend against the merge. These are reasonable drill-down articles from the main article.  They have already been expanded past the mere stub stage.  As to moving them to Wikibooks, I think that would be inconsistent with our other decisions for inclusion.  These are real topics of long-standing interest to professionals.  In my opinion, they are considerably more appropriate for the encyclopedia than our thousands of drill-down articles on individual television episodes or pokemon characters.  Rossami (talk) 14:30, 9 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Also against. This article goes into detail which would be excessive in the Beehive article. Kerowyn 09:16, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Ditto, here. Rossami puts it well. Pollinator 17:50, 11 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Also against. The Beekeeping article would be distracted by the history of Langstroth.  M Becker (a hobby beekeeper)
 * Ditto here Shoefly 01:22, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

I'm removing the merge suggestion as no one has voted for merging the article, and I also agree that this type of hive requires its own page. --Vellmont 04:01, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

I second this motion to remove the merge suggestion. Shoefly 02:59, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

top bar hives
the article on top bar hives could do with a diagram to ilustrate the differences better

WikiProject Beekeeping
I've put this article in WikiProject Beekeeping to help organisation and improvement of articles. I'm just trying to rustle up interest - if anyone is interested in being a member, please just sign up on the main project page - you can do as much or little as you like! M a rtinp23 17:08, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Can you use this image?
Is this picture of the bee shelter at Hartpury any use to you chaps? My understanding is that it held 28 skeps, and hails originally from Nailsworth. The date given for its origin varies, some say 16th century, some early 19th century. google search Mr Stephen 21:11, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

I just happened to come to this article almost by chance and saw this picture - it is a fantastic! How many people would ever guess that such a think existed? It really belongs in the main article. Hi There 21:15, 3 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Agreed! A very fine picture. I've included it in the article. It's my first time working with an image in Wikipedia, so I encourage someone with more experience (or better taste) to improve the placement.

Request
Would it be too much to ask a bee expert to describe the intricate structure of a natural beehive? Such as how do they make sure they can travel from place to place, and is there organization similar to ants nests or termites nests? I've seen some gigantic bee hives, it is difficult to imagine such a small creature could create such a complex building. -Kristan Wifler - The best description of natural nest is by T. D. Seeley and R. A. Morse (1976)"The nest of the honey bee (Apis mellifera L.)". Here you have some link to the article abstract from. Full text you can get from here. In natural hive as in hive made by man the combs are parallel more or less. Bees are using footstep marks as the termites and aunts do, however this is not in the purpose of marking a highways in hive. There is complicated system of communication between bees in hive based on pheromones transfer and touch in most cases. I really do not know if termites and ants have similar division of work funded on age. Bee workers in hive are in general younger then field bees and the younger are receivers and packers of honey. In some extend they are also responsible for pollen packing too. There are separated areas in hive for brood, pollen and honey. The essential purpose of colony is rearing brood, ant it takes place in center of the nest. The pollen (protein food) is first need to grow new organisms. Multi-thousand touches and pheromones exchange dictate to put pollen directly side of brood area. Nectar instead needs to be condensed by evaporation and this process is undertaken in areas were the space is abundant. In fact the system of interaction and communication is quite complicated, the above is only a basic scheme. For more you can read here:. I hope the pdf links will work for you. The classic good book regarding how hive works is Lindauer, M. (1953) Division of labuor in the honeybee colony" the other good book is Seeley, T.D. 1995 "Wisdom of the hive: the social physiology of honey bee colonies". The hives which you are seeing are somewhat artificial systems. Bees in most circumstances do not find very large cavities for their shelters. As you can imagine not many trees grow to such size to have 200 liter cavity or bigger. The size of 80L natural cavity should be considering a big one. Beekeepers in first place manage to limit swarming, second save wax combs for reuse during years. Their colonies can grow to its maximum size 60-80 thousand of bees or more, if combined with other one. The saved wax combs is huge benefit as save energy and time (1kg of wax is equal 7 or more kg of honey).

Change to section "Bee gums"
The section titled "Bee gums" contained the following sentence:
 * This was done by inserting a metal container of burning sulphur into the gum, an act that modern beekeepers find abhorrent.

I removed the phrase "an act that modern beekeepers find abhorrent." While intuition tells me that this is probably true of most beekeepers today, we can't rely on intuition here. I don't think we can say, with any certainty, that this is true, so I've removed it. —CKA3KA (Skazka) 03:17, 19 June 2007 (UTC)

Requested move
This article should be at Beehive and should be augmented to include plenty of information about natural, bee-made beehives (about which Wikipedia seems to be completely silent). The material at Beehive should go to Beehive (disambiguation). --Doradus 19:54, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep. This is uncontroversial. Pro hib it O ni o ns  (T) 21:05, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * should this talk page be merged with that at beehive? It seems odd to have this talk remaining at a no longer existing page.Cliff (talk) 23:12, 3 March 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Beehive (beekeeping)


text:
Sempronius

Sempronius may refer to:

 * Sempronius, the nomen of the Roman gens Sempronia
 * Sempronius, a character in the play The Apple Cart
 * Sempronius, New York
 * Sempronius, Texas
 * Sempronius Stretton, a British Army officer and artist
 * Sempronius H. Boyd, U.S. Congressman from Missouri and U.S. Civil War Colonel.
 * Sempronius, a fictional Roman senator in Cato, a Tragedy by Joseph Addison

title: Sempronius


text:
Idflieg aircraft designation system

The Idflieg (Inspekteur der Flieger) designation system was used to classify German heavier-than-air military (as opposed to naval) aircraft from the early days of the Fliegertruppe/Luftstreitkräfte to the end of World War I. The system evolved during this period as new classes of aircraft came into use.

The specific, official "name" of a Luftstreitkräfte aircraft type consisted of the name of the manufacturer, the designation allocated to its class or category, and finally a Roman numeral. Thus the first "D"-class aircraft built by Albatros was named the Albatros D.I, the second was the Albatros D.II and so on.

Application
A complication in identifying wartime German aircraft is that German manufacturers typically used their own designations; and sometimes gave experimental productions unofficial "Idflieg-style" class numbers, perhaps in the hope of production orders. The "Rs" (giant seaplane), and "CLs" (two-seater seaplane) designations of the Zeppelin-Lindau company are examples, as are the unofficial "Dr" designations of the experimental Euler triplanes, which remained prototypes and were never officially named.

The German Navy had a system for classification of aircraft types but did not use this, nor the Luftstreitkräfte system, to specify particular aircraft types, preferring to use manufacturers' designations. Airships were outside either system, being individually numbered in the same way as German destroyers and submarines, mostly in the "L" series. As well as serving to identify types, Idflieg class letters were normally included as part of German aircraft serial number markings.

List of Idflieg class letter prefixes

 * A
 * Originally applied to all monoplane aircraft. "A" type aircraft (for example the Rumpler Taube and Fokker M.5) were at no stage limited by any official specification apart from their wing layout; in practice most "A" class aircraft were unarmed two seat reconnaissance or training aircraft. Exceptions were the single-seat Fokker "A" types that became the "E" class fighters when they were armed with synchronised machine guns. After 1915, the "A" class gradually became extinct, as examples reached obsolescence and were discarded. Later monoplanes were included in the "D", "C" or "CL" classes, with equivalent biplanes.

 * B
 * Originally all biplanes. Not connected to any official specification, apart from the wing layout. In practice, later types in the "B" class were all low powered unarmed two-seaters, mostly used for training and other second line duties.

 * C
 * Two-seat armed biplanes (designation introduced by April 1915). This was the first new designation to be introduced after the outbreak of war and the first to have a defining specification. To reduce the vulnerability of early German military aircraft to Allied types equipped with machine guns, "C" types were armed with a rearward firing machine gun operated by the observer and (later) a forward firing synchronised machine gun for the pilot. An engine of more than 150 hp was also specified (later "C" types typically had over 200 hp). A number of future German fighter aces obtained their first victories in a "C" type aircraft

 * CL
 * Lightweight "C" class aircraft (designation introduced early 1917). Later "C" types became progressively larger – the "CL" specification was intended to provide smaller aircraft, nimble enough to be used as escorts for the heavier "Cs": effectively two-seat fighters. In practice, the "CL" types were mainly used for close support. Engine power of a "CL" was limited to less than 200 hp – and total loaded weight to under 360 kg. In other respects "CL" types were similar to "C"s – in fact serial and type numbers generally fell in the same sequence.

 * CN
 * "C" class aircraft modified to carry a heavier bomb load for use at night. Designation replaced by "N".

 * D
 * Single-seat armed aircraft, specifically intended for use by the new jagdstaffeln (fighter) squadrons (designation introduced in 1916). Until late in 1918, when the system was rationalised, "D" implied an armed doppeldecker (biplane). By the end of the war all single-seat fighters were designated as "D" types, as distinctions based on wing layout were abandoned.

 * DJ
 * Armoured "D" class aircraft. The only type in this class was the prototype AEG DJ.I and the designation may not have been official.

 * Dr
 * Single-seat armed triplane, (Dreidecker ). Designation introduced in late 1917 and abandoned in late 1918. The first two Fokker Dr.I service test aircraft were in fact called "F.I". By the end of the war all new single-seat fighters became "D" types, regardless of wing layout.

 * E
 * Armed monoplane (designation introduced in 1915 – abandoned in late 1918), from Eindecker. This was initially simply the monoplane version of the "C" class armed biplane, having the same relationship to the "C" class as the "A" had to the "B", and several early "E" types were two-seaters. In practice, due largely to the success of the single seat Fokker "E" types, which were single-seat fighters, the "E" class came to mean a single-seat fighter monoplane (i.e. the monoplane equivalent of the "D" class). In late 1918 the last "E" type, the Fokker E.V was redesignated the "D.VIII", and other late war monoplane types (such as the Junkers CL.I) were also designated in their "functional" class, in line with the abandonment of designations based on wing layout.

 * F
 * Single-seat armed triplane (designation used briefly in 1917). Applied only to the Fokker F.I, which was redesignated the "Dr.I" by the time it went into production.

 * G
 * Armed twin-engined biplane bomber aircraft, originally bore the "K" (Kampfflugzeug - "battle aircraft", see below) designation at the war's start, became "G" (Großflugzeug - "large aircraft") in 1915.

 * GL
 * Faster twin-engined aircraft suitable for use as day-bombers or for long range reconnaissance (designation introduced in 1918). Bore a similar relationship to the "G" as the "CL" bore to the "C". Weight and wing span were reduced, and crew was limited to two – the forward gunner’s cockpit being eliminated.

 * J
 * Armoured dual-role liaison aircraft and ground attack aircraft (designation introduced in 1917). Most examples resembled "C" types in general layout – differing only in being fitted with armour to reduce vulnerability to ground fire. The exception to this was the Junkers J.I, designed specifically as an armoured aircraft.

 * K
 * Armed biplane bomber aircraft with two or three engines (Kampfflugzeug–"battle aircraft"). Designation introduced early in 1915, and replaced by "G" later that year. (see "G" types above)

 * L
 * Heavy bomber mid way between G and R classes. Applied only to the Siemens-Schuckert L.I, which never saw operational service.

 * N
 * Two-seat single engined night (Nacht) bomber. Basically a "C" type aircraft with longer wing span to enable a heavier war-load. Designation introduced in 1918, superseding "CN" specification.

 * R
 * Large bomber aircraft with at least three, in some cases up to six  engines (Riesenflugzeug–"giant aircraft"). An important distinguishing feature from the "G" class (apart from size) was that all engines should be accessible in flight to permit running repairs.

Post war
The system ceased to apply with the end of German military aviation following the Armistice; in the nineteen twenties and thirties, although the Fokker company gave its new military types "Idflieg" style numbers, to continue war-time sequences. Fokker two seat military reconnaissance aircraft continued the wartime "C" series and Fokker single-seater fighters were given numbers in the "D" series to exploit the reputation of the wartime D.VII. Aircraft of the Luftwaffe were named according to the RLM aircraft designation system.

title: Idflieg aircraft designation system


text:
Talk:Atlanta (disambiguation)

I have removed the following from the main article:
 * Atlanta, Arkansas
 * Atlanta, Delaware
 * Atlanta, Colorado
 * Atlanta, Idaho
 * Atlanta, New York
 * Atlanta, California
 * Atlanta, Montana
 * Atlanta, Mississippi
 * Atlanta, Nevada
 * Atlanta, Ohio
 * Atlanta, Washington
 * Atlanta, Kentucky
 * Atlanta, Iowa

Reason being that I have a pretty good atlas for the entire country and they are not listed and I see little prospect for there ever being an article on these places. The GNIS often includes many place names that might only be known by a handful of people. If there is ever an article actually created for any of these, of course they can be restored. older ≠ wiser 05:25, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Atlanta (disambiguation)


text: User talk:4.154.246.206

title: User talk:4.154.246.206


text:
User talk:TRW

Please don't create articles that contain only photographs. RickK 05:28, Jul 26, 2004 (UTC)

This was in reference to an article that was deleted while I was still writing it and had saved an intermediate version. TRW 10:17, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Please claim your upload(s): File:CannonFiring.jpeg
Hi, This image was seemingly uploaded prior to current image polices, Thank you.

However, as part of ongoing efforts to ensure all media on English Wikipedia is correctly licensed and attributed it would be appreciated if you were able to confirm, that it was your own work, by marking it as own, amending the information added by a third party, and by changing the license to an appropriate "self" variant. You can also add  to the Media by uploader or Presumed self tag(s) if  present to indicate that you've acknowledged the image, and license shown (and updated the information where appropriate).

IF you have other uploads, please consider "claiming" them in a similar manner, You can find a list of files you have created [ in your upload log].

This will assist those reviewing the many many "free" images on commons that have not yet been transferred to Commons. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 16:43, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

Please claim your upload(s): File:BathtubBoat.jpeg
Hi, This image was seemingly uploaded prior to current image polices, Thank you.

However, as part of ongoing efforts to ensure all media on English Wikipedia is correctly licensed and attributed it would be appreciated if you were able to confirm, that it was your own work, by marking it as own, amending the information added by a third party, and by changing the license to an appropriate "self" variant. You can also add  to the Media by uploader or Presumed self tag(s) if  present to indicate that you've acknowledged the image, and license shown (and updated the information where appropriate).

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Please claim your upload(s): File:The Bastion, Nanaimo (2004).jpg
Hi, This image was seemingly uploaded prior to current image polices, Thank you.

However, as part of ongoing efforts to ensure all media on English Wikipedia is correctly licensed and attributed it would be appreciated if you were able to confirm, that it was your own work, by marking it as own, amending the information added by a third party, and by changing the license to an appropriate "self" variant. You can also add  to the Media by uploader or Presumed self tag(s) if  present to indicate that you've acknowledged the image, and license shown (and updated the information where appropriate).

IF you have other uploads, please consider "claiming" them in a similar manner, You can find a list of files you have created [ in your upload log].

This will assist those reviewing the many many "free" images on commons that have not yet been transferred to Commons. Sfan00 IMG (talk) 16:45, 11 August 2016 (UTC)

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Proposed deletion of File:The Bastion, Nanaimo (2004).jpg

The file File:The Bastion, Nanaimo (2004).jpg has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Assumed own work, but no evidence or claim of this was ever made."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ~ Rob 13 Talk 01:48, 17 September 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:TRW


text:
Idflieg

The Idflieg (Inspektion der Fliegertruppen - "Inspectorate of Flying Troops") was the bureau of the German Empire that oversaw German military aviation prior to and during World War I.

Founded in 1911, the Idflieg was part of the Fliegertruppen des deutschen Kaiserreiches (Imperial German Flying Corps) which became the Luftstreitkräfte in 1916, handling administration, including regulation of service names applied to aircraft produced by domestic companies, characterised according to the armament, wing configuration, crew and role which was intended for the aircraft.

Inspectors of Flying Troops

 * Colonel Walter von Eberhardt (1913–1914)
 * Major Richard Roethe (1914–1916)
 * Major, later Lieutenant-Colonel Wilhelm Siegert (1916–1918)
 * Captain Wilhelm Haehnelt (1918–1919)

title: Idflieg


text:
Jersey Accent

Jersey accent may refer to:

 * Channel Island English
 * New Jersey English dialects

title: Jersey Accent


text:
List of independent radio stations

This is the list of independent radio stations. Included are any non-profit terrestrial broadcast community radio stations not directly affiliated, owned, or otherwise controlled by any radio network, school, company, or government. All independent radio listed stations are independently operated (not necessarily the radio format indie music), and are considered to be community radio. A counterpart to this list is the list of college radio stations (some of the college radio stations are also community radio stations). KMRD, Madrid, NM KURU Silver City,  NM

Canada

 * CKON FM 97.3 – Akwesasne, Ontario/Québec
 * CKRL FM 89.1 – Québec City, Québec
 * CJAI-FM Island Radio 101.3 FM – Stella, Ontario
 * CFML Evolution 107.9 FM – Vancouver, British Columbia
 * CITR CiTR 101.9 FM – Vancouver, British Columbia
 * CFRO Co-op Radio 100.5 FM – Vancouver, British Columbia
 * CJSF CJSF 90.1 FM – Burnaby, British Columbia
 * CIVL CIVL 101.7 FM – Abbotsford, British Columbia
 * CHLY CHLY 101.7 FM – Nanaimo, British Columbia
 * CHLY CFUV 101.9 FM – Victoria, British Columbia
 * CKXS The New 99.1 FM – Wallaceburg, Ontario
 * CKWR FM 98.5 – Kitchener, Ontario
 * CJPE 99.3 CountyFM - Picton, Ontario

United States

 * WORT 89.9 FM Listener Sponsored Community Radio Madison, Wisconsin
 * KXCI 91.3FM Tucson's Community Radio Tucson, Arizona
 * KWSS 93.9FM The Alternative Phoenix, Arizona
 * KUHS 97.9 FM Hot Springs, Arkansas
 * KABF FM 88.3 Little Rock, Arkansas
 * KNOC Radio 1680 AM Brea, California
 * KDVS 90.3 FM Davis, California
 * KPIG 107.5 FM Freedom, California
 * KFJC FM 89.7 Los Altos Hills, California
 * KTOX 1340 AM Needles, California
 * KVMR FM 89.5 Nevada City, California
 * KCSN 88.5 FM Northridge, California
 * KHTS 1220 AM in Santa Clarita, California
 * KCRW 89.9 FM Santa Monica, California
 * KZSU FM 90.1 Stanford. California
 * KGNU-FM FM 88.5 Denver/Boulder/Longmont, Colorado
 * WPKN FM 89.5 Real People Real Radio Bridgeport, Connecticut
 * WDUP-LP 92.9 FM Home of Timeless Hip Hop and R&B New London, Connecticut
 * WJKS 101.7 FM Wilmington, Delaware
 * WSLR 96.5 FM Radio Sarasota, Florida
 * WMNF FM 88.5 Tampa, Florida
 * WRFG-FM FM 89.3 Atlanta, Georgia ("Radio Free Georgia")
 * WDBX FM 91.9 Carbondale, Illinois
 * WEFT FM 90.1 Champaign, Illinois
 * WLUW FM 88.7 Chicago, Illinois
 * KJHK FM 90.7 The sound alternative Lawrence, Kansas
 * WFPK FM 91.9 Louisville, Kentucky
 * WNKR FM 106.7 Williamstown/Dry Ridge, Kentucky
 * KLSU 91.1 FM Baton Rouge, Louisiana
 * WWOZ FM 90.7 New Orleans, Louisiana
 * WOCM FM 98.1 Ocean City, Maryland
 * WTMD FM 89.7 Towson, Maryland
 * WXRV FM 92.5 Andover, Massachusetts
 * WERS 88.9 FM Boston, Massachusetts
 * WRBB 104.9 FM Boston, Massachusetts
 * WOMR FM 92.3 Outermost Radio Provincetown, Massachusetts
 * WMEX 1510 AM Quincy, Massachusetts
 * WSAR 1480 AM Somerset, Massachusetts
 * WHTB 1400 AM Somerset, Massachusetts
 * WMVY 88.7 FM Tisbury, Massachusetts
 * WYCE FM 88.1 Grand Rapids, Michigan
 * WXTF 97.9 FM Harrisville, Michigan
 * KCMP FM 89.3 Minneapolis, Minnesota
 * KDHX 88.1 FM St. Louis, Missouri
 * KGLT FM 91.9 Bozeman, Montana
 * WMWV 93.5 FM Conway, New Hampshire
 * WFMU FM 91.1 Jersey City, New Jersey
 * WPRB 103.3 FM Princeton, New Jersey
 * WXPK FM 107.1, Briarcliff Manor, New York
 * WBNY 91.3 FM Buffalo, New York
 * WITR 89.7 FM Henrietta, New York
 * WRFI-FM FM 88.1, Ithaca, New York
 * WVBR-FM FM 93.5, Ithaca, New York
 * WFUV 90.7 FM New York, New York
 * WBER 90.5 FM Penfield, New York
 * WKZE 98.1 FM WKZE Red Hook, New York
 * WDKX 103.9 Rochester, New York
 * WDST Radio Woodstock, FM 100.1 WDST Woodstock, New York
 * WXYC 89.3 FM Chapel Hill, North Carolina
 * WXDU 88.7 FM Durham, North Carolina
 * WHUP-FM 104.7 FM Hillsborough, North Carolina
 * WKNC 88.1 FM Raleigh, North Carolina
 * WSGE-FM FM 91.7 Dallas/Gastonia/Charlotte, North Carolina
 * WXRC FM 95.7 Hickory/Charlotte/Gastonia, North Carolina
 * WWCD FM 92.9 Baltimore/Columbus, Ohio
 * KKRP Cowlington, Oklahoma
 * KBOO FM 90.7, Portland, Oregon
 * KXRY FM 91.1, Portland, Oregon
 * WDIY FM 88.1 Allentown, Pennsylvania
 * WXPN 88.5 FM Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
 * WKDU 91.7 FM Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
 * WSRU 88.1 FM Slippery Rock, Pennsylvania
 * WYEP FM 91.3 Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
 * WXRY FM 99.3 Columbia, South Carolina
 * KEOS FM 89.1 Bryan/College Station, Texas
 * KKXT 91.7 FM Dallas-Fort Worth, Texas
 * KEDA 1540 AM San Antonio, Texas
 * KBEC AM 1390, Waxahachie, Texas
 * DJCR - FCC Part 15 LPAM AM 1670 Valencia, El Dorado, Northern Hills, Texas
 * KRCL FM 90.9 Salt Lake City, Utah
 * WERA-LP FM 96.7 Arlington, Virginia
 * WRIR-LP FM 97.3, Richmond, Virginia
 * WEQX FM 102.7 Manchester, Vermont
 * KNKX FM 88.5 Tacoma, Washington
 * KEXP FM 90.3 Seattle, Washington
 * KSER FM 90.7 Everett, Washington
 * KXIR FM 89.9 Freeland, Washington
 * KYRS FM 89.9, 92.3 Spokane, Washington
 * KHOL FM 89.1 Jackson, Wyoming
 * KPOO FM 89.5 San Francisco, California
 * WFHB FM 91.3 Bloomington, Indiana
 * WRCO FM 100.9 Richland Center, Wisconsin
 * WRCO AM 1450 Richland Center, Wisconsin
 * chirpradio.org FM 107.1 Chicago, Illinois

United States internet broadcasts

 * AMMedia on air now 24/7 Indy music, We Are The Voice Of The Independent Providence, RI
 * AMMedia Joy Comes Gospel 24/7, We Know Creativity Is Vital San Francisco, CA
 * WUFO
 * Nashville Radio Nashville, Tennessee
 * Dewberry Jam Community Radio San Antonio, Texas
 * KNOCradio.com The Voice of North Orange County & The World A Community Radio Network, Inc. Station Brea, CA
 * KSGVradio.com The Voice of the Valley Glendora, CA
 * KKRP AM 1610 Your Home of Classic Rock and America's Progressive Voice Cowlington, OK
 * KHXI FM 99.9 Pure Country and Your Progressive Voice Cowlington, OK
 * JSLSRadio The Golden Age of Radio Cowlington, OK
 * Radio Rebel Independent Music Denver, CO www.RadioRebel.net
 * Mutiny Radio San Francisco, CA
 * Free 99 Tyler, TX
 * Rela Radio Wood River, Illinois
 * (((Scottish Highlands Radio))), Saturday Evening Live!streams from Leesburg, Florida

New Zealand

 * andHow.FM FM 107.5, Mangaroa
 * The Cheese FM 87.9, Lower Hutt

title: List of independent radio stations


text:
Dongdaemun

Heunginjimun, more commonly known as Dongdaemun , is one of The Eight Gates of Seoul in the Fortress Wall of Seoul, a prominent landmark in central Seoul, South Korea. The Korean name "Dongdaemun" means "Great East Gate," and it was so named because it was the major eastern gate in the wall that surrounded Seoul during the Joseon Dynasty. The gate is located at Jongno 6-ga in Jongno-gu.

History
The structure was first built by King Taejo during his fifth year of reign (1398). It was renovated in 1453, and the current structure is the one rebuilt in 1869. Heunginjimun shows architectural style of the late Joseon period. The most unusual characteristic is its built outer wall, Ongseong. Ongseong was constructed to compensate the weakness of the target from multiple invaders. It protects the gate and is a beautiful addition.

Preservation
Heunginjimun is located at the intersection of subway lines 1 and 4, at Dongdaemun Station (동대문역). The gate is within easy reach of exit 1 or exits 6–10 of this station.

Construction of the Dongdaemun Design Plaza, a major urban development landmark designed by Zaha Hadid, started in 2009 to renovate what used to be Dongdaemun Stadium (an amateur baseball park) and was officially inaugurated on March 21, 2014. This landmark, also called the DDP, is the centerpiece of South Korea's fashion hub and popular tourist destination and has been one of the main reasons for Seoul's designation as World Design Capital in 2010.

In August 2011, the roof of the gate was partially damaged by record rainfall. The large amount of rain resulted in chipping of the roof's ridge. An official of the Cultural Heritage Administration stated that "The aged gate underwent repairs in 1998 and seems to have become soaked in heavy rains".

By 2024, the area around Dongdaemun known as Dongdaemun Market has grown into the largest shopping center in South Korea, popular with both foreigners and natives.

title: Dongdaemun


text: Category:Todd County, Minnesota

title: Category:Todd County, Minnesota


text:
Talk:Electric power industry

untitled
In most places in this article we're talking about electric ENERGY, not electric power. Energy is what electric companies sell, while "power" has identical meaning to "flow rate of energy." If it was water, would we talk about the supply of water, or the supply of "flow?" Watts are the flow rate, JOULES are what is flowing. For so many years we've been wrongly saying "Electric Power companies" rather than "Electric energy companies" that now the correct terminology sounds weird, while the wrong words sound safe and normal.
 * I agree with you up to a point. Power Companies sell both power and energy.  A typical two part tariff has prices for both kWh (energy) and kW (rate at which energy is used).  Tiles 07:44, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * I intend to move this article to Electrical supply, write here a more technical treatment of Electric power (Watts, Watt-hours ect), then sort through the current set of links to this page and sort them to the proper one. DV8 2XL 20:34, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
 * What is your reasoning in changing the title of this article? In the USA, I would expect that electric power would be one of the first terms a reader would search for when looking for this subject. I see that mains electricity might be a common term in the UK. The main components of the electrical energy industry are entitled electricity generation, electric power transmission, electricity distribution and electricity retailing.--C J Cowie 00:26, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

 * I checked the Tiles reference and there is no useful information on the point in his electrical section. In the US, as far as I know, there are two ways Demand power is computed, the old way and the new way.  The old way uses either a 30 min or a 15 minute time period, and the new way uses a 1 or 2 minute time period.  At the beginning of the period a record is made of the accumulated energy used (proportional to the kilowatt-hours used up to the start since the meter was last reset) and then after the time period a record (these records are not saved, they're just used will the measurement is being made- think of them as registers (or variables)in a computer program)of the accumulated energy used (as before) is made.  The difference between these two records represents the energy passing through the meter (in effect) for that period of time.  Now, so far, everything is in units proportional to energy, not power.  Of course we know the length of time from the first record to the second record.  So we could get a number proportional to power by dividing the energy usage (over the time period) by the time period (say 1/30 of an hour), and then multiplying the result by the appropriate scaling factor (the dials on meters do not show units of kilowatt-hours directly- at least the older ones don't) to bring the result to kilowatts.  These scale factors are shown on your electrical bill.  Now of course it doesn't make sense to have a division and then a multiplication, so these are rolled into on proportionality factor.  Okay, where are we?  Demand (peak power) is tracked by measuring energy consumption over some (small) period of time and computing an average peak power over that period of time.  How is this information used when computing your bill?  Well, the meter stores only one reading for the entire period between readings of the meter.  At the beginning of a billing month, the Demand meter is read and reset (that means set to 0)- this a number that will be updated (a new value stored, or the old value kept) after each computation which follows each small period of time.  After reseting it reads and holds as a temporary record the energy meter reading, and starts counting off the first small period (say 2 minutes) of time.  After the small period of time has elapsed, the energy meter reading is taken, the difference with the previous reading is computed, and the result is compared with the stored demand record (initially 0) and that stored demand record is upated with the larger of the current value of this demand record with the just computed value.  At the end of the billing cycle the process repeats, i.e. the demand record is read (it now contains a number proportional to power corresponding to the small period of time during which the greatest use of electrical energy occurred since the demand meter was last reset- say a month ago). Your bill (if your usage is high enough that such a meter has been installed) will then have a separate charge proportional to your demand or peak (again over the short period of time) usage.  The demand charges can be very large- a third of the entire bill might be a reasonable general estimate.

 * By the way, you can't get this information from your friendly power company (ConEd in my case)- they won't let you talk to anyone who really understands what is going on in detail, and who can converse using proper engineering terms. The blather you'll get will drive anyone but the most patient of engineers totally bonkers.  You have to call the manufacturers of demand meters and get to someone who actually understands how these systems work before you can get the truth.  I spent those hours on the phone.  I have a pretty good idea of what's going on.  Sorry if that sounds a little strong, or too defensive.  blackcloak 05:37, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

The first poster on this page gave the reason: electrical power is a term in electrical engineering and physics first. It's colloquial miss-use in North America for electricity delivered by a power distribution system should not be allowed to push the proper meaning to the background. Of course a disambig link would go at the top. DV8 2XL 00:46, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Is the term electrical supply established as the appropriate term in some context? I don't believe that the term electric power is entirely miss-used. In an electrical supply system, the service provided is actually a continuous flow of electrical energy that is converted from fossil fuels etc. as required and converted to mechanical energy, heat etc. as it is received by the user.--C J Cowie 01:13, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * English being English, use determines meaning and I won't say that the current name is wrong in a general sense. Perhaps I didn't select the best name to stand in for the proposed new article, however I just can't think of any term to replace Electrical power in the engineering sense, and I do think we need that topic covered. Also as far as it goes here in the present treatment, I would say that this article needs a lot of work to bring it up to standards DV8 2XL 01:48, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I missed the point that you intended to convert the use of the Electric power title to apply to an electric power engineering topic. I think that a lot of the material you might have in mind is distributed among other articles such as AC power, Power factor, Power (physics) and Three-phase power. It might be appropriate to use the Electric power article to introduce various aspects to electrical energy utilization in layman's terms and refer the reader to other articles for more technical detail.--C J Cowie 02:19, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * That is precisely what I intended to do. Yes the material is covered in detail in those other articles, but in very heavy detail what I hoped here was the version that would be accessible to the senior high school student. But, damn you {;-) I'm doubting the name of the entry to move the current content to. Any suggestions? DV8 2XL 02:27, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
 * I think that most of the current content could be moved to Electricity retailing, but Electricity industry might be a better title to include commerce topics beyond retailing. Perhaps some outlining is called for at this point.--C J Cowie 02:52, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I think that the term "electric power" is commonly used in a very correct manner. The average person knows what a 60 watt light bulb is. He understands that leaving it on for a longer period of time uses more "electricity", and more money, than using it for a short period of time. He understands that a 1200 W hair dryer uses "electricity" very fast and should not be turn on for very long. Electric utilities build power plants based on rated MW, not so much MWh. Energy is important as well, but don't dismiss the importance of power.Whquaint 03:09, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

"Capacitive circuits cause reactive power with the current waveform leading the voltage wave by 90 degrees, while inductive circuits cause reactive power with the current waveform lagging the voltage waveform by 90 degrees" You meant to say perhaps that inductive circuits cause direct power???

As a result of reading through this article I have found it to be an inaccurate representation of the historical facts, something which is a Wikipedia issue of accuracy and credibility. There is also a level of bias in the way it is written, with no mention of Edison's excellent work undertaken in the UK in which his Holborn Viaduct Power Station was working earlier than his Pearl Street Power Station. Accordingly I have corrected this and put the correct chronological order of electricity supply scheme commissionings. Given the level of discussion as to the choice of title I would suggest that it is changed to Electricity Supply Industry as a more accurate representation of what it is meant to describe. Also provided are some references. aquizard 19:45, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Missing Equations
Under Ohms law there are three equations to calculate power in a circuit.

P= IV -- Example: 2 amps * 12 volts = 24 watts

P = I^2 * R -- Example: (2 amps * 2amps) * 6 ohms = 24 watts

P = V^2 / R -- Example: (12 volts * 12 volts) / 6 ohms = 24 watts

 * Note: the above editor has now added those equations to Electric power, so all is well. --Heron 17:35, 14 July 2006 (UTC)

power vs energy
The term 'power' is mis-used generally in this entry, notwithstanding the common usage of the word 'power' by electricity consumers. What is being consumed is electric energy, and most billing is based on the amount of energy passing through the customer's meter. It's true that electric 'power' is often also a basis of a different type of billing, but this is generally reserved as a proxy by utilities to cover the fixed costs of providing sufficient scale of equipment to service the maximum number of Amps supplied to the consumer, and is typically applied only to larger commercial or industrial consumers. This load is equivalent to the 'power' provided to the customer, and is measured in MW (often with a correction to compensate for the customer's inductive load). Let's be consistent with physics: power (or load) is measured in MW, and is equivalent to water pressure in a pipe; energy is measured in MWh, and is equivalent to the amount of water that passes through the pipe.

 * Caution, errors above. Power is measured in watts, or megawatts (MW) if you prefer.  Load is usually a resistance, or a measure of a receiving electrical device's capacity to absorb electrical energy/power.  Resistance has units of volts per ampere, or volt-sec/coulomb.  A key point in computing the actual power delivered during any sufficiently small interval of time is knowing the actual voltage and the actual current during that interval of time.  For a resistive load, the voltage and current cycles are in phase, both going to zero twice per cycle at exactly the same instant in time.  So, during the instant of the "zero crossing" no power is delivered to the load, since power delivered is the product of current and voltage.  As for the analogs, water pressure is the analog of voltage. The amount of water passing through a pipe, or flow rate, (gallons per second) is the analog of current.  Water is the analog of coulombs.  Electrical power is therefore the analog of a quantity proportional to the product of water pressure and flow rate (call it hydrolic power), and really only of interest in devices designed to accept and convert this power to some other form of power, like a hydrolic motor.  And finally, electrical energy is the analog of "hydrolic energy," the product of the hydrolic power and the time over which that hydrolic power is delivered. blackcloak 17:34, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Also, let's not forget that although most residential customers think they are consuming 'electricity', they are, in fact, consuming electrical energy.

Remove merge tag
No discussion of the reason to merge on the talk page. No activity since then. Topics clearly different - "electricity" about the physical phenomenon, "electric power" about what we do with it. I'm removing the merge tag. --Wtshymanski 15:24, 9 September 2007 (UTC)

Ferranti
I'm no expert in this subject but I'm surprised to find no reference to Sebastian de Ferranti in the early history here. For example his Deptford Power Station, an early large-scale AC plant, seems to be quite a significant milestone. Pterre (talk) 12:44, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Reworded history
Reworded history section (dif) because it described AC as "Tesla's alternating current system" and made claims such as Tesla designed the generators at Niagara Falls (that was actually George Forbes). It could also use a better referenced history on AC as to who did what in the US and Europe. There were many who developed AC in Europe and the US. Fountains of Bryn Mawr (talk) 04:16, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Should "Electrical industry" link here?
Isn't the electrical industry more than just power generation and distribution? Doesn't it include stuff like appliance production, consumer electronics, electrical machines for industry etc.? -- 92.230.210.92 (talk) 15:18, 17 February 2013 (UTC)

Market reform: expanded explanation
Greetings Wikipedians! I added language which explains the industry restructuring which took place in the U.S. beginning in the 1990s. Cordially, BuzzWeiser196 (talk)
 * @Username:Wtshymanski - I condensed the text in response to your comment. Cordially, BuzzWeiser196 (talk) 11:40, 13 June 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks for taking the time to write something shorter. Storage is cheap, but reader life span is a precious thing and we ought not to waste it. --Wtshymanski (talk) 04:26, 14 June 2021 (UTC)

"Power company" listed at Redirects for discussion
A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Power company. The discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 July 31 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Paul_012 (talk) 23:07, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Electric power industry


text:
User:Mpnolan

Hello dear.

title: User:Mpnolan


text:
User:Joblio

Joblio is me. Email me at wikip2.joblio@xoxy.net

title: User:Joblio