text:
User talk:Trödel/Archive 1

Welcome to the Wikipedia
I am not sure how the following got on my talk page (maybe through a template) but I like the links so I am leaving them here --Trodel 18:09, 27 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Interesting how ignorant I was just over 3 weeks ago. Moving and consolidating these links with the quick list on my user page. Trödel 15:46, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Here are some links I thought useful: [... list moved...]

Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~.

Be Bold!

Sam [Spade] 04:09, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Jim, Thanks for the insights. I was really lost there for a while. It is good to know there are people in the wiki willing to reach out. --orthoseeker 04:50, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Welcome again
I appreciate your comments and work in the Latter Day Saint movement project. Welcome aboard. -Visorstuff 00:19, 8 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Fox News
cross posting: Trodel, I see you've added "Propose alt language to FOX News#Allegations of bias section" to your to-do list. Since this is likely to take some time, I'd like to remove the neutrality warning while we wait. I'm not sure if this proper protocol - this is my first neutrality dispute. Does anybody have any objections to removing the neutrality warning at least temporarily? We can resume this conversation when somebody has a concrete proposal to make. crazyeddie 19:13, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Nevermind. crazyeddie 19:36, 12 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for asking. No, I have absolutely no objection to the consensual rewrite of Fox News section on allegations of bias. I think the current version is fine but I don't think the rewrite is unreasonable. If I do find a problem in future I'll probably deal with it by editing and if there are problems with that we discuss and see if it's as big a deal as I think. --Tony Sidaway|Talk 03:15, 22 Jan 2005 (UTC)

crossposting: It has been good working with you on the FOX News section - that was my first real effort to make somewhat significant changes to an article. I will keep it on my watchlist and see what else goes on there. The interesting thing is the US vs UK view on politics - especially right vs left. There is a great book The Right Nation by John Micklethwait and Adrian Wooldridge who both work for the Economist discussing how both liberals and conservatives in the US are right of the viewpoints of the political spectrum in the UK and Europe. 20:11, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Same to you. If you need a moderate, slightly liberal POV, don't be afraid to call me in. Yeah, both USA parties qualify as Conservative by European standards. Part of that is that they both chase after the moderate vote, so their views are pretty much the same. crazyeddie 20:58, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Name Change
Sorry that I opened up a can of worms on the voting of the name change, I thought it would be contextually helpful - but I forget that people still hate the church and religion so much. Anyway...I guess we'll see how it turns out. -Visorstuff 22:03, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

D'Oh! Thanks for reminding me to sign my silly name. Brainless ol' me. Thanks also for alerting me to this. I don't actively contribute anymore with school going on, but I still have opinions. :P Bruce 03:16, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for your efforts, and please don't get jaded! Always believe! Tom H. 03:29, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)

Credibility
Will do. Tom H. 04:27, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)

I have some problems with their approach and assumptions. They seem willing to add a little too much hassle to the process, and I am certain the process relies on hassle-minimization to work. Also, I want to see Jimbo's name somewhere, because he really understands how and why everything works, and I have a feeling he isn't buying a lot of what these people are saying. Tom H. 18:52, Jan 28, 2005 (UTC)

Welcome
I always type a personal greeting off the cuff. See Standard user greeting, though I don't use any of those. and  It appears to me you can embed any page with double braces. See Tom Haws 19:24, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)

Bishops
I am not sure I grasp its nuances of distinction from the current article, but I like what you have done. Tom Haws 16:47, Feb 14, 2005 (UTC)

"Me too", pretty much. I'd certainly go ahead and upload it at the article space. I might expand on the comparison with other denoms., and clarify the relationship with high priests, but those are minor points, and probably best dealt with at the article talk page. Alai 17:07, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Sorry to spy in on your work at User:Trödel/Sandbox2 as well - It is a good start, but don't delete all of the information from the original article - the wording was very much thought through at the time of creation. Also, you may want to give additional thought to how Bishops are perceived by other Latter Day Saint Denominations - for example, theology (the revelations) states you can be a bishop, but not be a presiding high priest over a congregation. In Nauvoo, there were bishops who presided over deacons making up the whistling and whittling brigades. No other "congregation" or oversights. They just had specific temporal duties (in that case it was public/church safety/security after the charter was revoked). Other LDS sects a bishop may not oversee a congregation, but the presiding high priest will. Also think addressing the typical sustaining of a bishop in a Mormon congregation - He is set apart as a bishop, the presiding high priest, a common judge in israel, the president of the Aaronic priesthood and given keys (the key of discernment is one) to govern how spiritual gifts are to be excersized in his ward boundaries (I mention this last one because the way the gift of tongues is exercised to day is mainly in missionary work as opposed to "a good round of tongues" - or speaking in the adamic tounge as was done a hundred years ago. Is one more correct use that the other? No, it is just how those who have keys of those gifts have determined they will be excercised). You may want to get some help from John Hamer on inter-denomination help. Do be careful doctrinally, though, as the "roles" as defined by revelation and how church policy implements them are two seperate things. Interesting that most know that and Elders president does not "report" to the bishop, but the stake president. While this is true, the EQP still "reports" to a certain degree as the Bishop is the presiding high priest, and therefore the head of the priesthood in his ward. The EQP gets his keys from the SP, not the bishop, so those keys are not the same as the bishops. The reporting structure (not the hierarchy) could be changed - as it is a matter of policy in most cases. Bishop - Aaronic Priesthood prez/presiding HP, SP - Melchiz. pristhood prez. Also, Quorum (Mormonism) will need to go through this process as well, as it is doctrinally incorrect in some instances. In practice, no, but doctrinally, it has many issues. just my two cents. -Visorstuff 22:09, 14 Feb 2005 (UTC)

List of articles about Mormonism
You wrote: Hey, how come no one told me about List of articles about Mormonism (or how did I miss this article for so long :) Trödel| talk 21:31, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

There are a number of interesting, nearly hidden ways to find LDS related articles on the LDSM project page - these include categories, etc. This is just a small handicapped one I put together. Definitely not comprehensive, but darn close. I wish it were a better page. Glad to have helped. Please feel free to add articles you come across to the page. -Visorstuff 23:06, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

joit-il de Tro'ntel
Que fais-tu? Je suis passe pour je te salue. does that make any sense to you? i travel with the babel-fish. Are you Trodel the same person that i talked the other day? i see you are a busy man. if i ask you something will you respond on this template? i guess i have a problem of communication. i'd like to try to write an article, a short one with links to existing themes of Wikipedia (shall i call them wikies?). i will search myself the tutorial, how to do it,but.. you know.. what's the prossedure? who decides to accept it or not. Is it you? Are you many? Am i curious or am i curious? see you.. hope i'll sign ok --213.5.49.177 14:25, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)sotos

I think I am the one you are looking for. I responded on the talk page to one of the IP's you used in the past see: User talk:213.5.49.214 (click to see the links I gave before) - I suggest that you create a username as this will provide you with a level of privacy (it will hide your IP address - and you can use Psuedonomyous name if you don't want to use your real one (like me, for Professional reasons I am using Jim Trödel (which as you guessed is German - it means "Junk" in English). Welcome again and Be bold just make the changes - leave a comment on the talk page when you do and others will be more likely to fix your english than just take the change out wholesale. Trödel| talk 17:40, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Commas
You're welcome. I actually paused before doing so, since I vaguely recalled that there are different UK and US usages here, but I can't find any style guide on the matter on WP, so I went (back) to the 'logical' method. Our anon contributor seems to have made all sorts of local perturbations, still puzzling through some of them... Alai 18:28, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Discussion about Compassmonkey.com links
At Talk:Yosemite National Park. An anonymous user reverted my deletion of one of the links, and challenged my assertion that there was a consensus that the links were spam. Since you deleted a Compassmonkey.com link at Bryce Canyon National Park, you may wish to comment. Thanks! -- hike395 06:43, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Project box
My Wikipedia seasoning doesn't include a lot of technical prowess. I have focused on conflict resolution, community building, and welcoming anons and newcomers. So the idea of a project box was kind of new to me. I think it is a great idea, and I hope it helps us out. I honestly don't know enough to say whether it will be tough for you or helpful to us. I just appreciate your great ideas. Tom Haws 21:24, Feb 23, 2005 (UTC)

Oh! Now I get it. OK. Sounds good. Just bear with me. I will let you know of highlights I think ought to be or lowlights I think ought to not be there. Tom Haws 23:23, Feb 23, 2005 (UTC)

Script-generated to-dos
I wrote some scripts in perl to generate these lists. Right now, they actually use use wikipedia.org, so they take a while to run (as per wikipedia's recomendation not to hit them more than once every 30 seconds). If I ever get around to installing the php/mySQL wikimedia software on my computer, they would run much faster.

At any rate: the bottom line is that I'm running them now, and should post the updated reports latter today. As an aside, when I first ran these we had about 200 different articles categorized the the Mormonism hierarchy. We now have at least 407. This probably has as much to do with new articles being written as categorization, but we're certainly making progress. Cool Hand Luke  19:54, 1 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Credibility/1.0/Reputation
Trodel, you may be interested in this User:David Gerard/1.0. David has the vision. And this: Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team Tom Haws 22:26, Mar 1, 2005 (UTC)

Priesthood Correlation Program
Just made major revisions to Priesthood Correlation Program. Needs cleaning up - can you provide a second set of eyes? -Visorstuff 18:54, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Template:Welcome2
Didn't mean to clear that template, thanks for putting it to rights. Canderson7 00:25, Mar 9, 2005 (UTC)

LDS Bio Edits
Thank you for the note on Hyrum Smith. If you/the group are doing a peer review, please also look at Wilford Woodruff. I'm in the middle of writing, researching and/or organizing Parley P. Pratt, Lorenzo Snow, Heber J. Grant and John Taylor. Also J. Reuben Clark has almost no church information -- I'll have to reread his biography. Comments welcome. WBardwin 09:30, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

OK - I'm compulsive! Frantic to get those original apostles written. The articles are still in process, but please look at Orson Pratt, Orson Hyde and David W. Patten. I've been looking over the LDS Group's site. I'm slow at joining things, but you will probably see me there soon. Thanks. WBardwin 03:28, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thomas B. Marsh, too. Worked on the Apostalic section the most. WBardwin 10:19, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Heber C. Kimball -- added some church service and took off the stub label. Is J. Gardner still around? He started this one off very well. WBardwin 06:50, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

the Church, again...
You're welcome -- no job too small, no cheque too large, as a colleague of mine is fond of saying. I'm currently having a think about "the Church"; I don't much feel like going on a crusade to change all the "the Church"es until the NC (Mormonism) is changed, which I haven't gotten around to yet. And I mentioned something similar elsewhere, and there was some resistance to it, so I'm wondering if I ought not to bring it up as a more general naming convention issue. Specifically in the contexts of Roman Catholic Church and Church of Scientology, would you believe.

And what's more, I'm having second thoughts about the NPOVishness/general acceptability of "The Church of..." -- and I know for certain that's something I don't have the energy for right now -- if it's even doable at all, one way or the other. Alai 04:03, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Personally I think the "The" is fair enough, and there's no clear guidance on it either way in the general naming conventions, or the manual of style. (Which could stand to be more specific, I feel.) So I think what we end up is lots and lots of special pleading and value judgements, which is unfortunate. (Clearly some people find The Beatles, The George Washington University or The Duke of Wellington's Regiment OK, but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints unreasonable.) I asked the Guardian's Style Guide people, and they said in their house style those would all be lower-case "the" -- which is at least a nice, simple and consistent convention, if not to the LDS Church's liking. Trouble is, WP doesn't seem to be set up to be consistent either way, and it's clear I'd get copious resistance, either way. (Witness the crashing down in flames of the proposal to move the "History of the...." article.)

On google, I've had very similar experiences, using it to search WP for spelling errors and such. Evidently it doesn't crawl WP all that quickly, but updates it in waves, so some pages in its cache may be out of date, and some pages on WP might never have been crawled by google at all. Thanks for the support on the "the Church" thing, I'll be sure to take you up on that. Alai 04:59, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Fox News (again)
I could use some help over at Fox News. We're still arguing over the PIPA bulletpoint. I've taken over the pro-Fox side from Ethereal (who is still hanging around), and I'm slugging it out with Silverback. So far, I'm holding my own, but I'm getting worn out. I'm not asking for support, but having somebody who is actually half-rational on the other side of the table would be a nice break. Please help! crazyeddie 07:28, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thank God you're back! (That sounds kinda strange coming from an atheist...) I've been taking a short wikivaction myself the last few days, because I couldn't stomach the discussion anymore. I'm actually afraid to look. I'll try to get up the courage tonight. crazyeddie 22:39, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Finally sucked it up and took a look... and not much has happened, as far as I can tell. It looks like Silverback and Ethereal are just dancing around. I do think the bulletpoint needs to be rewritten. Silverback does have some valid points, after all. (And a broken clock is right twice a day...) But as long as Silverback is involved, I don't know how much work is going to be done. Maybe we should just give it another week or so? Meanwhile we could brush up on the report - both the original version and the peer-reviewed version. (One of the points Silverback brought up is that the original report hadn't been peer reviewed - the bulletpoint now refers a version that was published in some journal.) Silverback claims that there are signifigant differences, but I haven't checked either version out that closely yet.

I was thinking that you and me and some neutralish party, like Tim Ivorson, or maybe this Kevin Baas guy, could get together and hash something out, and then put it up on the talk page for comments. Or maybe our twin wingnuts can work something out. I think we ought to hold off for a little while, monitor the situation, and make sure that neither side does anything crazy. We might want to let Kevin Baas, who is refereeing, know that we have a Plan B available. What do you think?

I swear, Silverback is just too ironic of a name. He certainly knows how to throw his weight around! The reason I took a break is that I was beginning to feel like I was getting Stockholm Syndrome. crazyeddie 07:31, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Anons and Joseph Smith, Jr. article
An anon 66.87.237.64 made four entries to the Joseph Smith article in the last 24 hours. I've basically reverted them as they were all POV or dealing with things already decided on the talk page (Brody work). You could not call them vandalism. As (s)he is unregistered and there is no way to talk, is this appropriate? I'm sure this happens all the time. I read the info on how to handle system newbys, but what how do you deal with anon's whose small edits are negative and are focused only on this article or LDS articles? I've already irritated her/him, as I got a message accusing me of vandalizing the work. Advice please. WBardwin 04:28, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Bill O'Reilly
See my comments on Talk:Bill O'Reilly (commentator). --Viriditas | Talk 11:32, 25 Mar 2005 (UTC)

LDS Anon template
Is your template live? Can I use it? How? Tom Haws 19:48, Mar 26, 2005 (UTC)

 * Agreed -- how? I'm much more writer than tech.  You dropped this:

 * on my page without an explanation of really how to use it. I've played with it a bit, but can't get anything to happen.  I'm just starting to understand the programming language for anything but text, so a little instruction would be helpful.  Please place your instructions on User:WBardwin/cheatsheet where I'm trying to learn how all these fancy things work.  Thanks.  WBardwin 06:07, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * clear as mud. I don't even know what keys to hit to get the various characters yet, let alone what they do. Will experiment with your procedure. WBardwin 06:43, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Images and media for deletion

 * I am contacting people who previously helped to vote to delete a generally objectionable photograph by a vote of 88 to 21, and who might be unaware that immediately after that image was voted to be deleted someone posted another which was very similar in content. My objections to this, and the previous image that was voted to be deleted might be based upon reasons far different from any that you have, but I do object to it, and consider the posting of such images to be acts of asinine stupidity, which burdens the project and its major educational aims in ways that they should not be burdened, and can be extremely detrimental to the acceptance and growth of WIkipedia's use and influence. Thus far those who I believe to be in the extreme minority of Wikipedians who would like to include these images, many who have been channeled to the voting page from the article with which it is associated have dominated the voting, 23 to 12 (as of the time that I composed this message). I would like to be somewhat instrumental in shedding a bit more light upon the issue, and if possible, helping to turn the tide against its inclusion. It might also be necessary to begin making an effort to establish an explicit Wikipedia policy against explicit photographic depictions of humans engaged in erotic, auto-erotic, or quasi-erotic activities. To my limited knowledge such images have not been accepted as appropriate anywhere else within this project, and frankly I can agree with those who are casually labeled prudes for opposing their inclusion, that they should not be. Vitally important information that might be unwelcome by some is one thing that should never be deleted, but un-needed images that can eventually prevent or impede many thousands or millions of people from gaining access to the great mass of truly important information that Wikipedia provides is quite another matter. There are vitally important distinctions to be made. Whatever your reasons, or final decisions upon the matter, I am appealing for more input on the voting that is occurring at Wikipedia:Images_and_media_for_deletion. ~ Achilles Achilles 04:19, 7 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Intro revert
Sorry, that was a newbie mistake on my part. Although "poopie poop" would count as a vulgarity, I would think. . . . . Soundguy99 22:12, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Sorry I took a few days to get back to you. I appreciate the offer, but I think I'd like to gain a little more Wikiexperience before I join any maintenance teams. Check back with me in a few months, though. Cheers, Soundguy99 16:41, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Header enforcement...
Should be in place now. Best wishes. -- AllyUnion (talk) 09:04, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

We meet again...
It looks like I am now the first and most recent person to leave a note on your talk page. I just wanted you to know that I responded to what I feel was an unfortunate suggestion you made on Votes for deletion/Sam Spade/Detective agency. You seem to think that my politics should decide if my user page ought to be deleted, and further that anonymous posters are a good source of info regarding what my politics are. I reject both suggestions. For example, your user page says your Mormon. Would it be acceptable for your user sub-pages (like say User:Trödel/LDSAnon) to be deleted if Anti-Mormons found them objectionable? Or how about if User:CrazyLiar tells me that your a Satanist? Would that mean that I could morally and legitimately join such postulated anti-Mormons in voting to have your page deleted? The answer to all the above is no. We have satanic wikis, we have communist wikis, and we have anarchist wikis. There is nothing special about Nazi's or white (or black) power wiki's that allows them or their user pages to be persecuted, at least not according to policy. Frankly I find the very suggestion offensive and solidly against my very reason for being here (access to and production of NPOV factually accurate information). In conclusion, if you insist on judging me by my politics, please at least have the decency to find out what they are (User:Sam Spade/Theoretical Biases). God be with you,

Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 12:52, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * (cc of response) I said nothing of the sort - in fact I defended you right to have the page regardless of your politics. However, as you know, wikipedia should not be disrupted to prove a point. Thus, if there was proof that the research group was a front for Stormfront then I would vehmenently oppose it. Trödel| talk 14:55, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

That would seem to involve making decisions regarding user pages based on politics. On a different note, I take it you prefer the wikilinks on your user page to run together? Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 15:01, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I replied (and copy pasted our previous convo) @ my talk page. Cheers,

 * Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 15:19, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Your user page is looking good at the moment, btw. Sam Spade Apply now, exciting opportunities available at Spade & Archer! 15:40, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Bot bug...
I don't know why it does that... I think I might have corrected the problem, I hope it fixes the problem now. -- AllyUnion (talk) 21:50, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Re:FOX News
I'm glad that you like my edit. It isn't a full revert. On POV grounds, I left out the bit that said that FNC downplayed the story. I assume that is why that sentence was removed in the first place. I also didn't put the source back in, because it seemed to partisan for confirming a single fact, but perhaps it should be included. What do you think?

I'm still unsure about the relation between FNC and its affiliates, so I don't know about the significance of the origin of that story. However, FNC says that "FOX News has no editorial oversight of any FOX affiliate." Tim Ivorson 15:22, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I think I get it.

 * Regarding your workplace experience, FNC works differently from other news channels (or perhaps it is leading a revolution) and I wouldn't be surprised if that is responsible for its ratings success. FNC needs a large audience for revenue, so audience size must be a conscious thought for FNC management. As a propaganda organisation, it could seek to mobilise people that already agree (it probably does), but having leftists shouting at their TVs, while they provide revenue and get swayed by more subtle slants would be a bigger coup for FNC.

 * FNC tries to be, and succeeds in being, the most interesting news channel to the average person in those 85m US households (assuming one subscription per household. 85m households is a lot. Perhaps those people live alone. Many Brits want to live alone or in smaller groups than previous generations have, but there aren't really enough houses here). I expect that this could be worked into the article and I'd try to lend a hand if you added it, but I don't plan to do it myself. Tim Ivorson 21:01, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Church/the church in the MoS...
I've finally summoned the gumption to tackle the Church Caps issue, thought you might like to know. Alai 05:49, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Noting Events at LDS General Conference
I am the person who considers it important to illustrate the range of presence exhibited by the First Presidency at General Conferences with contemporary illustrative example.You call this "trivia".Why so?(I am always on the alert for religions being presented from internal-advocate rather than neutral-outsider perspectives).--Louis Epstein/le@put.com/12.144.5.2 20:21, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Maybe a general statement. x may conduct but x presides. Recent examples of this include: GBH when third counselor, in 1983; MGR in 1979 or whatever. The current paragraph about sustaining is confusing - I tried to clean it up some. Just giving an example is confusing and looks like trivia. (cc anon page) Trödel| talk 20:24, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * That doesn't illustrate the possible range of presences:anything from President personally presiding and conducting to only a single Counselor even present.(Hinckley became Second Counselor December 2,1982,five days after Tanner's death.The biographical film produced on his becoming Church President in 1995 had January 1983 mentioned as the time after which he was often the only active member of the First Presidency,with the video at that point showing him sitting at Conference in the Second Counselor's chair with the other two empty).--Louis E./12.144.5.2 20:45, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Header enforcement
I wouldn't know exactly what percentage of likeness that must hold to delete a comment that has been altered. It's actually easier to just ensure that the bot itself tries to avoid inserting the comment twice. I could have the bot make a special pass to do that... but how I dealt with it on the other pages was that I didn't care since the bot would empty the sandbox and rake it clean. In the case of the Introduction page, I can have the sandbox rake it of similar-like comments... I would need some idea what I'm looking for really, it would be slightly difficult to do... just a lot of regular expression matching. -- AllyUnion (talk) 04:11, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I mean, technically, you're looking at something that starts the HTML comment, then you have any number of combos of the words "Feel free to change the text below this line. No profanity, please." where you don't exactly know what percentage of that message is left... -- AllyUnion (talk) 04:14, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh, I think I fixed the duplicate comments problem. Check my tests for today. -- AllyUnion (talk) 04:15, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Style
If you read my comments on Infobox pope (which it seems most people haven't) it explains most of it. But basically it's defined in the monobook.css stylesheet, and as I pointed out, uses the same colouring as the rest of the skin. This is way everything on the page "fits" together (e.g. image boxes, table of contents). I have started some discussion on MediaWiki_talk:Monobook.css on improving the class (for a start, giving it a better name e.g. infobox). ed g2s •  talk  08:44, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Human
Why did you do that? Do you feel that the current intro is NPOV? Have you read my most recent posting on Talk:Human? Where did I err? --goethean 20:04, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Trödel/Archive 1


text:
Teal

Teal is a greenish-blue color. Its name comes from that of a bird—the Eurasian teal (Anas crecca)—which presents a similarly colored stripe on its head. The word is often used colloquially to refer to shades of cyan in general.

It can be created by mixing cyan into a green base, or deepened as needed with black or gray. It is also one of the first group of 16 HTML/CSS web colors. In the RGB model used to create colors on computer screens and televisions, teal is created by reducing the brightness of cyan to about one half.

In North America, teal was a fad color during the 1990s, with, among others, many sports teams adopting the color for their uniforms.

Etymology
The first recorded use of teal as a color name in English was in 1917. The term teal (referring to a sort of duck) is derived from the Middle English tele, a word akin to the Dutch taling and the Middle Low German telink.

Teal blue
Teal blue is a medium tone of teal with more blue. The first recorded use of teal blue as a color name in English was in 1927.

The source of this color is the Plochere Color System, a color system formulated in 1948 that is widely used by interior designers. Teal was subsequently a heavily used color in the 1950s and 1960s.

Teal blue is also the name of a Crayola crayon color (color #113) from 1990 to 2003.

Teal green
Teal green is a darker shade of teal with more green. It is a variable color averaging a dark bluish-green that is green, darker, and stronger than invisible green or pine tree.

Teal green is most closely related to the Crayola crayon color Deep Space Sparkle.

Deep sea green
Deep sea green is one of the paint colors manufactured and marketed by American paint company Benjamin Moore.

In culture

 * Aviation: TEAL is the acronym for Tasman Empire Airways Limited, the forerunner of Air New Zealand, who used teal as their airline's signature color; it appeared not just on plane livery but promotional material and airline bags. When New Zealanders refer to ‘teal green,’ they are more likely referring to the airline color than the bird's color.

 * Rapid transit: Teal is the official color of Kochi Metro, the rapid transit system serving the city of Kochi in India.

 * Flags
 * The flag of Mozambique contains a greenish-teal horizontal stripe.
 * The teal stripe in the flag of Sri Lanka represents Sri Lankan Muslims.

 * Business: A Teal organisation is an emerging organisational paradigm.

 * Military: Armies that used feldgrau, cadet gray and similar shades of grayish green for field uniforms in the late 19th and early 20th century commonly used more saturated color for officers, often tending on teal. The armed forces of the Netherlands used teal field uniforms up to the 2nd World War. Some of the modern parade uniforms of the Russian Armed Forces are also teal, though named "wave-green" in the service.

 * Insects: Some dragonflies are cyan or teal.

 * Sports
 * Teal is the jersey color of the Belfast Giants. The color was chosen to be a neutral color in the often heated sporting environments of Belfast. It is also worn by the Charlotte Hornets of the NBA and The Port Adelaide Football Club in the AFL also feature teal in their team colors.
 * The Jacksonville Jaguars of the NFL use teal as one of their primary colors. The Miami Dolphins use a variation called Aqua as their primary color. The Philadelphia Eagles also use a variation called Midnight Green.
 * Two teams in Major League Baseball use the color teal. The Seattle Mariners use a variant known as "Northwest Green" as one of their primary colors while the Arizona Diamondbacks use teal as an alternate color.
 * In the National Hockey League, the San Jose Sharks use a variation called Deep Pacific Teal as their primary color. The Mighty Ducks of Anaheim used a variation of teal known as Jade as a primary color until 2006 when the team was rebranded to the Anaheim Ducks. The color is still used today on the team's alternate uniform.
 * The Penrith Panthers of the NRL used in the early 2000s teal as a secondary color.
 * The Griquas of the Currie Cup use teal as primary color (although is officially defined peacock blue).

 * Foods: Gummy bears are commonly teal.

 * Computing
 * Windows 95 featured a teal-colored default wallpaper.
 * Heroes of Might and Magic III featured a teal-colored party.

 * Film
 * The "orange and teal look" is a trend in 21st-century filmmaking, in which scenes are color graded to emphasize these two complementary colors.

 * TV series
 * Perry the Platypus, one of the main characters in the TV series Phineas and Ferb, is teal.
 * Ash Ketchum, the main character on Pokémon, wore a dark teal t-shirt during the earlier seasons.
 * Martha Jones, a companion of the Tenth Doctor, wore a teal t-shirt on her debut Smith and Jones.
 * The Wives of Commanders in The Handmaid's Tale (TV series) wear teal.
 * In Our Flag Means Death, when asked their favourite color, the character Jim Jimenez replies “teal”.
 * Characters in the South Korean television series Squid Game wear teal tracksuits as their game uniform.

 * Religion: The Hermit Intercessors of the Lamb, a Christian contemplation group in the state of Nebraska, wears habits with a teal scapular to symbolize intercession between heaven (blue) and earth. Originally organised as a Roman Catholic association, it was suppressed in 2010 by the Archbishop of Omaha, who directed members to cease wearing the scapular in Church activities.

 * Politics: In Australia, the color teal, and the term "teal independents", have become associated with a group of independent candidates in the 2022 Australian federal election who campaigned on a platform highlighting the importance of climate change action, tackling corruption in politics, and gender equality. These candidates are largely supported by Climate 200 and are often referred to by the media as 'teals' because that color is a dominant feature in some of their campaigns. Nominally, their policy platform reflected those of both the Liberals and the Greens.
 * Art History: Green pigments for paints and fabric dyes were difficult to obtain from nature in the past, thus they were rarely employed in clothes or heraldic emblems. While green may have been blended with blue and yellow paints, mixing dissimilar substances was frowned upon due to suspicion of alchemy. Only during the early Renaissance did the superstitious custom fade away, and in the late eighteenth century, the German Swedish scientist Carl Wilhelm Scheele found new copper greens.

 * Issue awareness: Teal is the color of ovarian cancer awareness. Ovarian cancer survivors and supporters may wear teal ribbons, bracelets, T-shirts, and hats to bring public attention to the disease.

Academia

Teal, along with Bronze, is the school color for Coastal Carolina University.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Teal


text:
Braulio Dueño Colón

Braulio Dueño Colón (March 26, 1854 – April 4, 1934) was a Puerto Rican musician and composer.

Early years
Dueño was born in San Juan, Puerto Rico. At a young age Dueño's father, who also loved music, taught him the basics of music and served as his inspiration. Dueño took music classes with "Maestro" Aruti, with whom he learned about composition and harmony. When an opera or zarzuela company visited Puerto Rico, they would hire a local orchestra to play their musical scores. When Dueño was a young man he would be hired to play the flute in many of these orchestras.

Musical career
In 1879, he composed the music for the zarzuela "Los Baños de Coamo" ("The Baths of Coamo") which was originally written by Genaro de Arazamendi, in honor of the hot springs in the town by the same name.

Dueño participated in many literary-musical contests in the Ateneo Puertorriqueño. He won many prizes and honors for his compositions. Among the pieces honored were:
 * La Amistad (Friendship, an overture), 1877;
 * Sinfonía Dramática (Dramatic Symphony);
 * Noche de Otoño (An Autumn Night), 1887;
 * Estudio sobre la Danza Puertorriqueña (A Study of the Puerto Rican Danza), 1914.

However, it was the series of Canciones Escolares (School Songs, 1912), which were co-written with Virgilio Dávila and Manuel Fernández Juncos, that would give him lasting recognition as one of Puerto Rico's greatest composers. The Canciones Escolares not only won the highest honors in the Ateneo but was also acclaimed and honored at the Pan-American Exposition of 1901. The Canciones Escolares became an important part of Puerto Rican culture.

Later years
Braulio Dueño Colón lived most of his life in the city of Bayamón, where he died on April 4, 1934. The city of Bayamón honored the memory of Braulio Dueño Colón by naming a school, a suburb and the municipal cemetery after him. He was buried at the Braulio Dueño Colón Municipal Cemetery.

title: Braulio Dueño Colón


text: Category:Narratology

title: Category:Narratology


text:
Sade (band)

Sade are an English band, formed in London in 1982 and named after their lead singer, Sade Adu. Three members, Paul Anthony Cooke, Stuart Mathewman, and Paul Spencer Denman, are from Hull in the East Riding of Yorkshire. Its music features elements of soul, quiet storm, smooth jazz and sophisti-pop. All of the band's albums, including compilations and a live album, have charted in the US Top Ten.

The band's debut studio album, Diamond Life (1984), reached number two on the UK Album Chart, selling over 1.2 million copies and won the Brit Award for Best British Album in 1985. The album was also a hit internationally, reaching number one in several countries and the top ten in the United States, where it has sold four million copies to date.

In late 1985, the band released its second studio effort Promise, which peaked at number one in both the United Kingdom and the US. It was certified double platinum in the UK and quadruple platinum in the US. In 1986, Sade won a Grammy Award for Best New Artist. Their fifth studio album, Lovers Rock (2000), won the Grammy Award for Best Pop Vocal Album. Their sixth studio album, Soldier of Love (2010), peaked at number four in the UK and number one in the US. In 2011, the band won its fourth Grammy for Best R&B Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocals.

Sade's US certified sales in 2012 stood at 23.5 million units according to the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA), and by 2014 sold more than 75 million records worldwide to date. The band were ranked at No. 50 on VH1's list of the "100 Greatest Artists of All Time".

1980s
The musical group Sade was formed in London in 1982, by members of the Latin soul band Pride. Sade Adu, Stuart Matthewman (sax), Paul Denman (bass), and Paul Anthony Cooke (drums), formed the break-away group and began to write its material. They named the band after lead singer Sade Adu, and made its debut performance in December 1982 at Ronnie Scott's Club in London in support of Pride. In May 1983, the band performed its first US show at Danceteria in New York City. Andrew Hale joined on keyboards in mid-1983; Cooke was replaced on drums by Dave Early in early 1984.

Sade received more attention from the media and record companies than Pride had, and eventually separated from that group altogether. On 18 October 1983, the singer signed with CBS Records (which was absorbed by its parent label, Epic Records, in 1986). When singer Sade and her band of the same name were establishing themselves, its record company, Epic, printed "Pronounced Shar-day" on the record labels of its releases (which led to mispronunciation in rhotic North America).

In February 1984, Sade released its first single, "Your Love Is King", which became a Top Ten hit. A second single, "When Am I Going to Make a Living" barely made the Top 40, but the band's debut album, Diamond Life, was released in July 1984 and peaked at No. 2. It spent over six months in the UK Top Ten and was later certified 4× platinum by the BPI. Diamond Life won the 1985 Brit Award for Best British Album, and was later included in the book 1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die.

The band embarked on its first major UK tour, augmented by Dave Early (drums), Martin Ditcham (percussion), Terry Bailey (trumpet) and Gordon Matthewman (trombone). A third single, "Smooth Operator", was released from the album with a video directed by Julien Temple. The single became its first US hit in spring 1985, propelling the album in the US Top Ten. Also in 1985, the band were nominated for two MTV Video Music Awards—"Best Female Video" and "Best New Artist".

On 13 July 1985, Sade performed at the Live Aid at Wembley Stadium in London. Sade Adu became the only African-born artist to appear in front of the live audience of 75,000 and an estimated worldwide television audience of 1.4 billion in 170 countries.

In late 1985, Sade released its second album, Promise, which peaked at No. 1 in both the UK and the US. It was certified double platinum by the BPI in the UK, and quadruple platinum in the US. In 1986, Adu was nominated for an American Music Awards for Favorite Soul/R&B Female Video Artist, and the band won a Grammy Award for Best New Artist. On 28 June 1986, after touring for the album, the band performed at the Artists Against Apartheid Concert in the Freedom Festival on Clapham Common in London. In 1987 the band was nominated for a Grammy Award for Best R&B Vocal Performance by a Duo or Group for Promise.

Sade's third album, Stronger Than Pride, was released in May 1988. The album peaked at No. 3 in the UK and has been certified platinum by the BPI. It was preceded by the single "Paradise", which made the UK Top 30 and US Top 20. The band toured across the world again, augmented by Blair Cunningham (drums), Martin Ditcham (percussion), Leroy Osbourne (vocals), Gordon Hunte (guitar), James McMillan (trumpet) and Jake Jacas (trombone & vocals). In 1989, Sade Adu was nominated for an American Music Award for Favorite Soul/R&B Female Artist.

1990s
Sade's fourth album, Love Deluxe, was released in November 1992. The album peaked at No. 3 on the US Album charts and was certified quadruple-Platinum, and peaked at No. 10 in the UK and was certified Gold by the BPI.

In 1993, the band recorded a cover of the Percy Mayfield song, "Please Send Me Someone to Love", for the Academy Award-winning film Philadelphia, before launching the Love Deluxe world tour. Joining the band were Leroy Osbourne (vocals), Gordon Hunte (guitar), Trevor Murrell (drums), Karl Vanden Bossche (percussion), and Rick Braun (trumpet).

The 1994 Grammy for Best R&B Performance by a Duo or Group was awarded to Sade for "No Ordinary Love", featured in the 1993 film Indecent Proposal. In November the group released its first compilation album, The Best of Sade. The album was another Top Ten hit in both the UK and US and was certified Platinum and Quadruple-Platinum respectively. In 1996 Hale, Denman, and Matthewman formed its own band as a side project, Sweetback, and released a self-titled album.

2000s
In October 2000, Sade Adu came out of retirement to perform at the prestigious MOBO Awards, her first live performance in several years. The following month, Sade released its fifth studio album, Lovers Rock, its first album in eight years. The album peaked at number 18 in the UK (its only studio album not to make the top 10) though was certified Gold by the BPI. It fared better in the US, peaking at number 3. It also won the Grammy Award for Best Pop Vocal Album in 2002. The band toured the US throughout 2001. The tour resulted in a live album, Lovers Live, which was released in the UK and US in February 2002. In 2005 the band contributed the track "Mum" to the Voices for Darfur DVD.

2010s
In mid-2009, when social media was in its early stages, Sade fans from around the world were excited to hear the news of an up-coming Sade album with a predicted release date of 24 November 2009. This date was posted on an official-looking website (sade2009.com) before Sony Music released any news or marketing for an upcoming album.

Sony denied having any affiliation with the site. Billboard Charts contacted the site's owner to confirm the release date and was told the date was official, but soon after, the date was removed. Die-hard Sade fans got together on the official Sade website forums to investigate this new website and release date, what they uncovered was the registered owner of the site's name was Thomas Roman, a web developer, freelance digital marketing and SEO specialist. Roman, a seasoned web developer, utilized the buzz he generated with the release date and got traffic to his site where he cashed in on pay per click advertisements. To date it is not known how he predicted a release date so close to the release of their first single and studio album, Soldier of Love, in a decade.

Sade's sixth studio album Soldier of Love was released worldwide on 8 February 2010, the band's first album of new material in ten years. Following the release of the "Soldier of Love" single on 8 December 2009, the track debuted at number 11 on the Urban Hot AC chart, making it the highest debut of the decade and the third-highest all-time on the Urban Hot AC chart. "Soldier of Love" debuted at number 5 on the Smooth Jazz airplay chart and became the first-ever vocal to hit number 1 on the Smooth Jazz Top 20 Countdown.

The album peaked at No. 4 in the UK. In the US the album sold 502,000 copies in its first week and topped the Billboard 200 chart. The album stayed at No. 1 in the US for three weeks. The group released the second single from the album, "Babyfather", in April 2010, followed by a video in May. On 13 April 2010, the band performed "Babyfather" and "The Sweetest Taboo" on the US TV show Dancing With The Stars. In September 2010 the group announced the first dates of its global tour, Sade Live, to begin in April 2011.

In 2011, Sade received its fourth Grammy Award (Best R&B Performance by a Duo or Group with Vocals) for Soldier of Love, and released a second greatest hits album, The Ultimate Collection, which made the UK Top Ten. A new video for the track "Love Is Found" premiered in July 2011.

The band returned in 2018 for the soundtrack to the Disney film A Wrinkle in Time with the song "Flower of the Universe" and for the song "The Big Unknown" for the motion picture Widows.

On 13 July 2018, Sade bandmate Stuart Matthewman told Rated R&B in an interview that the band is in the studio working on its seventh studio album. He said, "We're working on a new album. When we're happy, then we'll let everyone else hear it."

2020s
In September 2020, Sade announced a remastered vinyl set of its six albums. The boxset, titled This Far, was released on 9 October 2020. Their engineer and co-producer, Mike Pela, died in 2022. Music to their hypothetical seventh album has been recorded in summer 2022 at the rebuilt Miraval Studios (where they previously recorded Promise and Stronger Than Pride) as of June 2024 no further details have been heard of.

Band members

 * Sade Adu – vocals, lyricist, songwriter (1982–present)
 * Paul S. Denman – bass guitar, songwriter (1982–present)
 * Andrew Hale – keyboards, songwriter (1982–present)
 * Stuart Matthewman – guitar, saxophone, songwriter (1982–present)

Former members
 * Paul Anthony Cooke – drums, songwriter (1982–1984)
 * Dave Early – drums (1984–1985, died 1996 )

Legacy
The band is credited with influencing the musical genre of neo soul and achieving success in the 1980s with songs that featured a sophisti-pop style, incorporating elements of soul, pop, smooth jazz and quiet storm. The band was part of a new wave of British R&B-oriented artists during the late-1980s and early-1990s that also included artists Soul II Soul, Caron Wheeler, The Brand New Heavies, Simply Red, Jamiroquai and Lisa Stansfield. AllMusic's Alex Henderson writes that, "Many of the British artists who emerged during that period had a neo-soul outlook and were able to blend influences from different eras". Following the coining of the term "quiet storm" by Smokey Robinson, Sade was credited for helping give the genre a worldwide audience.

The band's work has influenced and been recognized by several musical artists. Rapper Rakim of Eric B. & Rakim stated he grew up listening to Sade's music and was influenced by the singer's voice and style. Rakim has also referenced its song "Smooth Operator" in his rap song "Paid in Full" (1987). Hip hop group Souls of Mischief stated they grew up listening to Sade's music. Hip hop group Tanya Morgan also described Sade as one of its favorite artists.

Frontman Chino Moreno of the alternative metal band Deftones has cited Love Deluxe as one of his top 13 favorite albums. In an interview with The Quietus, Moreno said, "I've always loved it, it was a big inspiration on me. It's sort of classy, another cocktail and cityscape record." The band also covered the lead single "No Ordinary Love" in collaboration with singer Jonah Matranga for the band's 2005 compilation album, B-Sides & Rarities.

Singer Keri Hilson said, "My Dad would whistle Sade melodies randomly all the time. As a kid, I used to try to whistle along to 'Cherish the Day' or 'The Sweetest Taboo.' He was a real Sade fan and made me one, too!" In reaction to the newly released album Soldier of Love, rapper Kanye West wrote, "This is why i still have a blog. To be a part of moments like this ... new Sade ... How much better this ... than everything else?". Rapper Rick Ross stated in an interview that "People may know my infatuation with Sade. There's never been a bad Sade track. I love all different sides."

The group were nominated for induction to the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2024.

Discography

 * Diamond Life (1984)
 * Promise (1985)
 * Stronger Than Pride (1988)
 * Love Deluxe (1992)
 * Lovers Rock (2000)
 * Soldier of Love (2010)

Tours

 * Diamond Life Tour (1984)
 * Promise Tour (1986)
 * Stronger Than Pride Tour (1988)
 * Love Deluxe World Tour (1993)
 * Lovers Rock Tour (2001)
 * Sade Live (2011)

title: Sade (band)


text:
Talk:Noggin the Nog

Introductory text

 * every episode began with the words, "Listen to me and I will tell you the story of Noggin the Nog, as it was told in the days of old..."

Really? I thought the incantation was "In the Lands of the North, where the black rocks stand guard against the cold sea, in the dark night that is very long, the men of the Northlands sit by their great log fires and they tell a tale...". Marnanel 04:19, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * You're both right. Some did one; some the other.  Normally the first form was used in subsequent episodes of the same story, especially in later stories -- although I wouldn't swear to it being a firm pattern 78.144.24.34 19:24, 7 August 2007 (UTC) APJ

Queries
I'll argue some points here in case anyone else has a strong opinion (and because I don't have time to edit just now): 78.144.24.34 19:32, 7 August 2007 (UTC) APJ
 * Graculous certainly does not arrive "randomly" and in any case that hardly seems NPOV.
 * Can anyone tell me the episode where Noggin and Nogbad play chess? I believe that this is one of the books, not the TV series.
 * While we're at it the books are not mentioned.

Running Time, etc.
Can someone put in one of those boxes down the side with running times, number of episodes in each series, names of the series, whether B&W or colour, etc.? (From memory, there were six series, with a total running time of 250 minutes and 24 episodes, but this needs checking, and I'm not sure what the box template is called) --86.11.5.235 (talk) 00:57, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

 * You want . See Bagpuss for an example to copy. -- EdJogg (talk) 13:38, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Noggin the Nog


text:
User:Billk~enwiki

Welcome to my Wikipedia page.

Interests
My main area of interest is Mathematics, without getting too specific I like Geometry and Topology. However, I do have a few side hobbies that I always enjoy learning more about, such as organic gardening.

I enjoy learning languages other than my native English. I have studied both Chinese and German in the past, and I am currently studying Romanian.

Lastly, I am a supporter of free / open-source software, and the effects that these ideas have on today's world. I am a happy Gentoo linux user, and I encourage the use of Free / OSS software whenever possible.

Wiki Work
I am a big believer in everything that the Wikimedia projects are trying to accomplish, and I only hope that I can do more good things for the project and its community.

Since I have ended my formal education, I have begun using the various Wikipedia sites for self teaching. As I learn, I plan to help by both revising and writing pages for both Wikipedia and Wikibooks. You can see how I am doing here

title: User:Billk~enwiki


text:
User talk:Carribeiro

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Here are some links I thought useful:

 * Tutorial
 * Help desk
 * Policy Library
 * Utilities
 * Cite your sources
 * Verifiability
 * Wikiquette
 * Civility
 * Conflict resolution
 * Brilliant prose
 * Neutral point of view
 * Pages needing attention
 * Peer review
 * Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense
 * Village pump
 * Boilerplate text
 * IRC channel
 * Mailing lists
 * Current polls

Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~.

Be Bold!

Sam [Spade] 04:26, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Reincarnation
Hi!Pls respond to the message at the Reincanation page.--Jondel 08:46, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Carribeiro


text:
Omega (photographic brand)

Omega is the brand name of several medium-format cameras that were initially developed and sold by Simmon Brothers starting from 1954, then licensed to and manufactured by Konica and then Mamiya from 1964 until 1981, when the line was discontinued.

Simmon Brothers originally had used the Omega brand for a line of enlargers, introduced in 1939 and discontinued in 2014. Omega became an independent brand for the enlargers after Simmon Brothers were folded into the Berkey Photo conglomerate in 1961. Omega enlargers can be recognized by their distinctive, slanted enlarger head support.

Under Berkey, Omega also marketed a line of view cameras, the Omega View 45, which were built by Sakai Special Mfg. Co. in Japan as the Toyo-View and rebranded by Berkey.

Rangefinders
Alfred Simmon received a design patent in 1953 for the "Simmon Camera". The Simmon Brothers, better known at the time for their line of enlargers, built the original Simmon Omega cameras in the United States starting from 1954. These rangefinder cameras used 120 roll film, capturing images with the 6×7 "ideal format" frame size. The Omega 120 camera was equipped with a fixed Omicron 90 mm lens designed by Wollensak with four elements; it was designed to facilitate rapid operation as a press camera, using a large focusing knob and combined push/pull film transport lever that also served to cock the leaf shutter for the right hand and a shutter release for the left hand. A flashbulb accessory was available which had a rotary turret accepting six bulbs. Keeping with the rapid operation theme, the turret was mechanically linked to the film transport lever, automatically advancing a fresh bulb to the reflector as the film was advanced.

Simmon Brothers was merged into Berkey Photo in 1961. Shortly thereafter, the design was licensed to Konica, another company marketed in the United States by Berkey, and manufactured in modified form as the Koni-Omega line between 1964 and 1975, which included the Koni-Omega Rapid (introduced in 1964 and sold in Japan as the Konica Press) and Rapid M (1968). Both cameras accepted the same set of Hexanon-branded interchangeable lenses, including the standard (Tessar-type) 90 mm, wide-angle (Super-Angulon-type) 60 mm , and telephoto (Sonnar-type) 180 mm. The 60 mm lens was replaced by a reformulated 58 mm lens and a 135 mm portrait lens was added around 1970.

The bulkier Rapid M was designed to accept interchangeable film magazines with a dark slide, permitting mid-roll changes and off-camera loading, while the Rapid was fitted with a detachable back. Because the Rapid did not have a dark slide, it was fitted with a safety blind to allow lens changes without fogging the film; both cameras had provisions to lock out the lens release lever if the dark slide or safety blind was not engaged. The magazine back for the Rapid M had two parts: a conventional film transport and rollfilm holder, and a front cover that included a slot for the dark slide.

The last models, branded as Rapid Omega and bearing an all-black finish, were produced by Mamiya in the same factory, including the Rapid Omega 100 and 200 (both introduced in 1975), which were similar to the Rapid and Rapid M, respectively. Production ceased in 1981. This line shared the same interchangeable lenses with the preceding Koni-Omega line, although they were rebranded as Super Omegon rather than Hexanon. The magazine back introduced with the Rapid M was used for both the 100 and 200, but on the 100, the front portion of the magazine was permanently fixed to the body, so it was unable to accommodate mid-roll changes.

A close-up adapter was popular with wedding photographers for portraits. The line also was sold to the United States Army, which designated it "Still Picture Camera, Type KE-58".

Lenses are fitted with a leaf shutter that supports M- (flashbulb) and X- (electronic flash) synchronization via a PC terminal, up to the minimum shutter speed of $1/undefined$ second.

Twin-lens reflex
Konica extended its market with another line, the Koni-Omegaflex M in 1968, which was a twin-lens reflex camera that also took 6×7 rectangular pictures on 120 roll film.

The two-piece Omegaflex film magazine is identical to the magazine used by the Rapid M and 200; the rear (film transport) piece can be interchanged with the 100 (also sold as the Konica Press 2 in Japan). The front piece integrates a dark slide and permits mid-roll changes on the Omegaflex, Rapid M, and 200. The earlier Koni-Omega Rapid (Konica Press in Japan) film back is not compatible with the Koni/Rapid Omega film magazine system, and does not permit mid-roll changes.

Although the lenses for the Omegaflex shared the same design as their counterparts for the Koni-Omega, the Hexanon lenses for Omegaflex were packaged as a twin-lens unit and were not interchangeable with those from the Omega line. Likewise, most other accessories were not interchangeable with those from the Omega line.

View camera
Under Berkey, view cameras were sold in the United States as the Omega View 45. The cameras were built by Sakai Special Camera Mfg. Co. in Japan and marketed elsewhere as the Toyo-View; Sakai also built a field camera, which was sold as the Toyo-Field. By 1985, Omega-branded view cameras were being marketed by Berkey alongside Toyo-branded view and field cameras.

Distribution of the Toyo line in the United States was acquired by Mamiya America Corporation after Berkey went bankrupt; Sakai stopped manufacturing cameras in 2002, but, the Toyo-Field 45AX camera is still available.

Enlargers
The first Omega-branded enlarger sold by Simmon Brothers was the Omega B, introduced in 1937. Eventually, a complete line of enlargers and darkroom instruments were produced. The letter designation in the enlarger model number provided the maximum film size that was accepted:
 * A = 35 mm film
 * B = 6×6 (2$1/undefined$×2$1/undefined$ in.)
 * C = 3$1/undefined$×3$1/undefined$ in.
 * D = 4×5 in.
 * E = 5×7 in.
 * F = 8×10 in.

After the eponymous Simmon brothers retired in the early 1960s, the company was folded into Berkey Photo by 1964 as the Simmon-Omega division. Berkey went bankrupt in the late 1980s and Omega was purchased by RT Corporation and rebranded to RT/Omega (1988), then Omega/Arkay (after acquiring Arkay, 1990), Omega/Satter (after acquiring Satter, 1995), and finally Omega/Brandess (2010). No new Omega enlargers were developed after 1979, and the company quietly discontinued enlarger production in 2014.

title: Omega (photographic brand)


text:
Talk:Omega (photographic brand)

No subject
Contributions welcome. Please correct any errors. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Fg2 (talk • contribs) 04:29, 30 July 2004 (UTC)

Wedding photography
No doubt that the Omega camera was popular with wedding photographers, but why was the close-up adapter popular with wedding photographers ? I don't see any necessity to use a close-up adapter for weddings. Ericd 08:16, 2 May 2005 (UTC)

Commons Category:Omega Enlargers
if it is the correct "omaga" company someone put it in the article. Cheers --Saibo ( Δ ) 22:09, 10 January 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Omega (photographic brand)


text:
Candido Amantini

Candido Amantini, CP, (January 31, 1914 – September 22, 1992), was an Italian Passionist priest. For 36 years Amantini was the exorcist of the Diocese of Rome, stationed at the Pontifical Sanctuary of the Holy Stairs. He also taught Sacred Scripture and Moral Theology and wrote a book entitled Il Mistero di Maria, about the Virgin Mary.

Personal life
Candido Amantini was born Eraldo Ulisse Mauro Amantini in Bagnolo di Santa Fiora, Province of Grosseto, Tuscany, the second of four children born to Giovanni Battista Amantini and Diolinda Fratini Amantini. He was baptized on 7 February, 1914.

At age 12, he entered the Passionist Seminary in Rome (Nettuno) on 26 October, 1926. At the age of 15, on 9 October, 1929, he entered the novitiate of the Passionists at the Retreat of St Joseph on Mount Argentario. On 23 October, he received the religious habit and was given the name Candido of the Immaculate. On 24 October, 1930, he made his temporary vows. Amantini was transferred to Tavernuzze, near Florence, where he completed Lyceum in 1936. Then he went to Vinchiana, to complete his studies in philosophy and theology.

On January 31, 1936, Amantini made his perpetual vows. Also in 1936, he was transferred to the Sanctuary of the Holy Staircase in Rome, to study for his licentiate in theology at the Pontifical University of St. Thomas Aquinas, Angelicum.

After a long illness, Amantini died at the night on the feast of Saint Candido, his patron. Amantini was buried in Rome at the Verano Cemetery. The Roman Catholic Church has named him a Servant of God. His remains were transferred to the Church of the Holy Staircase on March 21, 2012.

title: Candido Amantini


text:
Fort Randall

The Fort Randall Military Post was established in 1856 to help keep peace on the frontier. It was located on the south side of the Missouri River in South Dakota, just below the present site of the Fort Randall Dam.

History
The site for the fort was selected in 1856 by General William S. Harney. The fort served as a strategic site on the river to defend two lines of transportation; it operated for 36 years. It was named for Colonel Daniel Randall, a career Army officer who also served as Deputy Paymaster General of the Army

Its strategic location along the Missouri River made it a key fort in two lines of western frontier defense. It was the last link in a chain of forts protecting the overland route along the Platte River. It was also the first fort in a chain of forts on the upper Missouri River. The most important mission assigned to the soldiers of Fort Randall was to mount expeditions to try to control the many Indian tribes on the Great Plains, primarily the Teton Sioux (Lakota people).

After serving as an important base in the Indian Wars, Fort Randall closed in 1892.

Fort Randall is located in Gregory County, South Dakota at 43° 01' north latitude, 98° 37' west longitude (43.0244, -98.6242).

Site today
The U.S. Army Corps of Engineers-Fort Randall Dam Project maintains the site which is open to the public. The fort's ruins are open for display with interpretive signage. In 2003, the Corps erected a stabilizing structure to help preserve the remains of the historic chapel.

title: Fort Randall


text:
Nashia

Nashia is a genus of flowering plant in the vervain family, Verbenaceae.

Until recently, there were 7 known species to exist within the genus Nashia. However, the seven species placed in the genus Nashia were revised, based on the near totality of the (scant) material found in the world's herbaria. A morphological analysis of, in particular, the calyx and fruit reveals the heterogeneity of the genus. As a result, Nashia was reduced to its single original species, N. inaquensis, described from Great Inagua, Bahamas (where it's considered to have been introduced), and recently found in Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands (St. Croix). N. Spinifera, of Hispaniola, was placed in the genus Isidroa, a monotypic new genus. The five Cuban endemics, plus two newly described here, make up the new genus Diphyllocalyx, formerly ''Lippia sect. Diphllocalyx'' of Grisebach.

Species include:

 * Nashia armata (Urb.) Moldenke
 * Nashia cayensis Britton
 * Nashia inaguensis Millsp. – el tuque
 * Nashia myrtifolia (Griseb.) Moldenke
 * Nashia nipensis (Urb.) Moldenke
 * Nashia spinifera (Urb.) Moldenke
 * Nashia variifolia (Urb.) Moldenke

title: Nashia


text:
Talk:Devolution

Home rule
"Home rule", a term applicable in some areas, redirects here, which seems to be UK-centric. Especially bad since today's featured article about Greenland has a link to home rule. Nelson Ricardo 11:11, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)

Devolution, Subsidiarity and Home Rule
I think that User:Deus Ex is confused about Devolition and Home Rule and has created an confusing article.

Devolution is about subsidiarity, in an agreed constitutional framework, with a central agreed sovereign body. Home rule is also has undertones of independence. For example in the early 1990s questions were raised in South Africa if a statute needed to be passed in Westminster to recognise and give legal authority of the new SA constitution. Mandela in the end decided that it was not necessary. If he had it would have seemed odd to put that act of parliament under Devolution, but it would have fitted under Home Rule, given the Irish precedence, quite nicely.

I think that these two articles need to be reconstituted as two separate articles as they were until User:Deus Ex combined them. Philip Baird Shearer 13:19, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Aughavey 29 June 2005 14:24 (UTC) "This Act created the parliaments of Northern Ireland and Southern Ireland — although the latter did not in reality function and Southern Ireland became the Irish Free State in 1922."

This is entirely subjective since the South of Ireland had a huge Catholic / Nationalist majority which increased further as the Unionist & Protestant population left or were burned out. Whilst in Northern Ireland the sizeable Nationalist (largely Catholic) population did not support the state and some sought to destabilse it.

If "devolution" were a real word, there'd be a way to pronounce it, wouldn't there? -- D021317c 24 May 2006 21:44 (EDT)

Does the Irish Home Rule section really belong here?
The section on "History" is entirely dedicated to the Irish Home Rule question. As far as I can tell, this section is well-written and informative in and of itself, but there's nothing really explaining what it tells us about the general concept of Devolution, and all of its details can no doubt be found elsewhere. Surely this can be consolidated significantly? --Jfruh 6 July 2005 16:30 (UTC)

We Could Create an Irish Home Rule article, if one doesnt exist. I do agree that the paragraph is out of placeKeeperoftheseal 12:45, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

 * It existed, and some officious ignoramus redirected it here. Have recreated it and added details of the Indian movement. Hornplease 14:04, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Slight modifications
I have added the following:

''===Movements Calling For Devolution=== Movements calling for devolution also exist in Cornwall and to a limited degree in England and some English Regions such as Wessex.'' and:

''==External Links==
 * Cornish Constitutional Convention
 * Devolve England
 * The Campaign for an English Parliament
 * Mercian Regionalists
 * English Constitutional Convention''

What do you think? Bretagne 44 15:56, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Agree with Bretangne 44. User:Lofty

Disambig
What would the pages listed on the proposed disambiguation page be? - cohesion | talk 09:44, 12 October 2005 (UTC)

'in Cornwall and to a limited degree in England'

Cornwall IS in England. I'm getting sick of seeing this on UK related articles. Whether Cornwall should be regarded as England or not, is a different matter. The fact is, it's in England. My personal opinion is that it's no less English than Devon but we should just stick with the facts.

Merge in of Devolved government
On 21 December 2005 Big Adamsky put templates on the two articles proposing a merge of Devolved government into this article. Seems a good idea to me. ...dave souza: talk 17:56, 2 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Home rule already redirects here, and perhaps Decentralisation could also be incorporated into this article, as well? So as not to have slightly different articles repeat cited examples that are basically the same thing, more or less. The article might also be more properly renamed Political devolution, i.e. as a concept of Political science and/or Political geography. Any constructive thoughts on this? //Big Adamsky 18:12, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

I did the merge earlier: there wasn't much in there that wasn't already here. Cwolfsheep 04:06, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

What about the definition for Devolution of: Evolutionary processes occurring without natural selection?
The rules for devolution are simple. In a sense you create paradise by removing the survival of the fittest requirements. In other words, feed all members of a society, ensure all members have equal opportunities to prosper, and provide all members the opportunity to reproduce. Random mutation and random recombination without survival of the fittest should lead to devolution. Eventually all of the members of future generations would degenerate with the addition of non-beneficial mutations.

The probably of a negative mutation is far greater than the probability of a positive change especially in a complex organism. In a natural setting, the negative changes would be eliminated through natural selection and the positive changes would be reinforced. The eliminations would occur through illness, prey, starvation, reduced opportunities to procreate, etc. The reinforcement would occur through ease of gathering resources and more opportunities to procreate.

Civilization strives to level the genetic testing grounds by healing the sick, feeding the hungry, protecting the weak, and proving procreation choices to all. This is grandly civilized but it comes with a high price. Our tendency towards civilianization and humanity are creating an unhealthy environment for humankind. By removing the survival of the fittest side of the equation, all genetic combinations and mutations are equally incorporated into the genetic pool. The argument that “Devoltuion” can be bundled under evoltuion is flawed. The removal of natural selection which is key to the modern defintion of evolution is a concept in and of itself. Devolution is a logical name for this theory. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.174.255.100 (talk • contribs)

 * While these idea have something to do with Devolution (fallacy), they really seem to be along the lines of Eugenics. ..dave souza, talk 18:18, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

I reread Galton’s theory, but it does not go far enough. Galton supposed humanity would experience a “revision toward mediocrity” or a “regression towards the mean.” His theory was based on the rudimentary understanding of evolution of the time. His theory did not incorporation genetic mutation.

The theory of “Devolution” goes further. In addition to the tendency towards the mean caused by genetic recombination without natural selection, the entire distribution of characteristics will degrade due to mutation without natural selection. The gene pool will collect aberrant genes which would have been eliminated by natural selection under "normal" evolutionary processes. The end result will be something less than the average. Over a significant number of generations the result would be significantly less than the current average. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael Young (talk • contribs)

 * Well, it still sounds like an extension of Galton's idea. More importantly, has someone of note published this in a mainstream publication? If you have a look at WP:NOR and linked policy and guideline pages, they make clear that by the nature of what Wikipedia's trying to do, we can only report on verifiable information, and can't put forward new ideas that haven't been published. ..dave souza, talk 23:24, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

This is so bizarre. Decades ago this word was invented by artists at Kent State University and referred to a supposed social regression of mankind. It was the basis for the new age band DEVO. Now it seems to be not only some kind of Anglican legalese, but a technical term in biology. Now the tea party movement in the US is using it as some kind of revolutionary slogan for their crackpot idea to break up the US. I guess no one can own a word or control its meaning. Weird how wikipedia can be so influential we dont even know who's writing it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.8.204.113 (talk) 01:17, 6 July 2010 (UTC)

I shouldn't really matter how many different ways crackpots and quacks have used the term "devolution" as a sort of counter-evolution term. The term exists, whether its pseudoscience, science fiction, or just cyberpunk. It deserves a separate article from this one. The word 'devolution' as a type of political subdivision is clearly a different topic entirely.

 * jg (talk) 07:44, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

French examples
This page is linked to from the Segolene Royal page, so I'm thinking it would be good to add an example that's relevant for France? I mean, I don't think she's speaking about Ireland when she says she's for devolution...213.112.249.100 10:36, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

New England
Regarding the entry:

"In the United States region of New England, cities and towns practice limited home rule and, for the most part, govern themselves in a directly-democratic fashion known as the New England town meeting."

 * a) There is no legal entity called 'New England' - it's just the traditional term for the six northeastern-most states of the U.S.

 * b) As was stated correctly elsewhere, there is no home rule or devolution between the Federal government and any subset of the fifty states (true - the situation is different with the 'non-states' like Guam); because, the U.S. Constitution is a pact that establishes the relationship and separation of powers between the Federal government and each state as an indivisible legal entity.

 * c) All but two states (Connecticut and Rhode Island - both from New England) have county governments that take precedence over whatever local charters may lie within. Such matters are entirely the responsibility of state governments.

 * d) 'cities and towns' in New England do not, as the quote suggests, practice limited home rule any more than they do in any other state. Boston is no more a 'devolution' of Massachusetts than Los Angeles is a 'devolution' of California.

 * e) Although some New England towns once practiced Direct Democracy, this is extremely rare today and only occurs in the very smallest of towns.

 * f) The existence of a town hall meeting does not mean they "practice limited home rule and, for the most part, govern themselves." The tradition of the town hall meeting has a separate, though occasionally related, history than the very rare phenomenon of direct democracy.

 * g) There is no devolution movement in New England or elsewhere comparable to, for example, the push for a Scottish assembly in the U.K. This is not a boast about U.S. stability or contentment.  It's a consequence of the federal nature of the U.S.  The U.S. government doesn't have the authority to incorporate or dis-incorporate a locality anyway.  The only devolution-like push would be from states themselves, but the Civil War established (particularly the 13th amendment) that any further separation than that already established under the Federal constitution would be an act of treason.

 * h) The quote looks like something taken from a history book. It's a quaint view of late 18th century America perhaps.

 * i) I think the other sections are pretty good though. The federal district, Washington D.C., is a good example.

Thanks for letting me put in my two cents. jg 03:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Cornwall
I've expanded the Cornwall section slightly, but could do with some sources, particularly of the Lib Dem MP's support, and groups or people advocating stronger devolution than a regional assembly (I know they are out there somewhere). Mikebloke 17:32, 27 July 2007 (UTC)

Added the following text - There is a movement that supports devolution in Cornwall. Its strongest advocates in elections are the Mebyon Kernow party and the Cornish Liberal Democrats who aim to establish a regional Cornish Assembly. A proportion of Cornish devolution supporters such as the Cornish Stannary Parliament, Cornwall 2000, the Cornish Nationalist Party, Cornish Solidarity and the Cornish National Liberation Army support further devolution for Cornwall to become either a constituent country of the United Kingdom or even split from the Union entirely.

Several Cornish Liberal Democrat MPs such as Andrew George, Matthew Taylor and Dan Rogerson are strong supporters of Cornish devolution. See - Andrew George MP, Press release regarding Cornish devolution October 2007

On Wednesday 12 December 2001, the Cornish Constitutional Convention and Mebyon Kernow submitted a 50,000-strong petition supporting devolution in Cornwall to 10 Downing Street. See: - The Cornish Constitutional Convention and BBC News 11th December 2001- Government gets Cornish assembly call. In December 2007 Cornwall Council leader David Whalley stated that “There is something inevitable about the journey to a Cornish Assembly” See:- Cornwall Council leader supports Cornish devolution .... please see also:-  Cornish self-government movement and Constitutional status of Cornwall. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.146.193.173 (talk) 13:41, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Japan
Devolution in Japan - this is a hot topic recently and relevant to this article
 * http://www.japantimes.co.jp/
 * http://search.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/ed20080610a2.html

brain (talk) 15:56, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Leeds and Manchester City Regions
These two city regions have just been give devolved powers and are soon to get devolved transport powers. Can someone do a good job of putting that in please?--Tubs uk (talk) 01:22, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

ICM/BBC Scotland poll marking 10 years of Scottish devolution
Here is the detailed data from the BBC poll:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/30_06_09_devolution_poll.pdf

... and the BBC stories published using data from the poll:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8123114.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8123346.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8124129.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8125041.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/8127464.stm

--Mais oui! (talk) 07:03, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Native American Tribal Nations in the United States of America
This article states "Native American tribes have some rights devolved to them by United States government . . . " This is incorrect. Native American tribal nations predate the United States of America (as well as contact with European explorers and settlers). As a result, their relationships with America, including their rights and powers as sovereign entities within the federal system, spring from and are governed by treaties dating back in some cases to the early 17th century. Article VI of the US Constitution states that "all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land" along with the Constitution itself. Therefore the rights and powers of sovereign Native American tribal nations within the USA have the same constitutional presence and irreducability as the powers granted to the several States. (Additionally, the earlier statement in this article that "In the United States only the federal government and the state governments are recognized by the United States Constitution. . . " is also incorrect, for the same reason.) The rights held by American Indian tribal nations are not devolved to them by any authority, as devolution (per the introduction to this article) implies the such rights ". . . can be repealed by central government in the same way an ordinary statute can be." Native American tribal nation's right and powers cannot be repealed by the federal government - the only power the Constitution specifically grants to Congress with regards to American Indian tribes is in Article I Section 8, which in part reads that the US Congress has the power to ". . . regulate commerce with Indian tribes." These rights, governed by treaty, can only be changed through either new treaties, or processes established by existing treaties. However, I wanted to wait for additional comments before making this change tomorrow evening. Thank you for your attention.Professor Storyteller (talk) 04:29, 3 June 2010 (UTC) .

Yes, federally recognized tribal government falls under treaty law and is therefore not subject to one-sided congressional revocation or rewriting. This is almost the exact opposite of devolution, which is more a provisional grant of limited self-rule. The current text in this article seems to say otherwise. What is the best way to correct this? It's either wrong or at least very misleading in the current form. jg (talk) 09:09, 10 May 2020 (UTC)

"Other meanings" should have they own articles
The "Other meanings of the term devolution" should have they own articles and be removed from this page (but noted on the disambiguation page).71.109.159.30 (talk) 16:09, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Subnation and a state divided into a state?
The first few sentences need to be cleaned up. At the moment they are inaccurate, unless colloquial American English is to be elevated to use in an encyclopedia. First, since nation does not equal state, what would a subnation be, the division of Czechoslovak into Czech and Slovak, or American into African-American and Asian-American? Also, how can you go from the level of sovereign state down to the level of a state? Most people would understand what the sentences are trying to convey; however, isn’t the point to be as accurate as possible? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.27.111.8 (talk) 03:55, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

Devolution within U.S. states

 * "In the United States only the federal government, state governments, and American Indian tribes are recognized by the United States Constitution, so local governments are subdivisions of states. Theoretically, a state could abolish all local governments within its borders. Local governments such as municipalities, counties, parishes, boroughs, school districts, and other types of local government and political subdivision entities are devolved."

The notion that county and local governments are merely devolved under a state government and subject to dissolution would depend greatly on the content of that state's own constitution. Some states have federation principles of their own and regard the powers of some sub-governments as rights rather than just privileges. The question then is, is this getting into too much minutia for an article on devolution; should the section just switch to waffle terms like "often" and "in many states;" or should the topic of federated principles in individual state constitutions be brought up in the article?

 * jg (talk) 07:36, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

1979 Scotland referendum
The article states that "in Scotland's case a slim majority of those voting had backed the proposal". Does this refer to a slim simple majority or a slim qualified majority? Why is there no citation reference? —Nakkisormi (talk) 10:06, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Refs are very easy to come by, as the 1979 Scottish devolution referendum, and related stories, was a massive media event during that year. The 'Yes' side won a slim simple majority. See the article for details. --Mais oui! (talk) 10:12, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Thanks, I just noticed the easter egg links to the referenda in question on my own. Perhaps they should be made more obvious... —Nakkisormi (talk) 10:14, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

Greece and the Mount Athos
The Mount Athos is an autonomous state inside the Greek state. Why is this not being considered? 95.17.44.74 (talk) 03:11, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

The States
'':"Theoretically, a state could abolish all local governments within its borders.
 * Local governments such as municipalities, counties, parishes, boroughs, school districts, and other types of local government and political subdivision entities are devolved."
 * Local governments such as municipalities, counties, parishes, boroughs, school districts, and other types of local government and political subdivision entities are devolved."

''

These two sentences seem to be claiming that all governments below the State level are devolved. Is that what is being claimed here, does it just sound that way, or is no one else getting that impression?

The ability of a State to dissolve, revoke the charter of, or curtail the rights of one of its sub-governments (counties, cities, etc) varies from State to State and even varies among the sub-governments within a State. Some have guarantees under its State's constitution; though, many do not. The ones that don't have charters and sovereign rights that are constitutionally guaranteed may be considered devolved. The others cannot be said to be devolved.

So what's the answer here? Go into greater detail and turn the United States into a bigger section, or just say something like "some are devolved, some are not" ... or what ?

jg (talk) 21:09, 21 January 2014 (UTC)

No one has picked which corrective is best. For now, the bulk of this section is being replaced with a link to "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_constitution_%28United_States%29." jg (talk) 05:28, 2 February 2014 (UTC)

Federal or Central?
Currently, the lead states the following, amongst others:
 * Devolved territories have the power to make legislation relevant to the area, thus granting them a higher level of autonomy. Devolution differs from federalism in that the devolved powers of the subnational authority may be temporary and are reversible, ultimately residing with the central government.

Other than Cooper v. Aaron, 358 U. S. 1, 16 (1958) (holding that State agents cannot violate rights “created or protected” by the Federal Constitution) (quoting Buchanan v. Warley, 245 U. S. 60, 81 (1917)), the Supreme Court seems to place an especial stress on the Supremacy Clause. For example, the Court has held that cannabis sativa and c. indica can be prohibited on a nationwide basis without an ad hoc Amendment therefor, see Gonzales v. Raich, 545 U. S. 1 (2005) (holding that the Commerce Clause supercedes those rights and privileges secured by the Tenth Amendment); contra, Tenn. Wine & Spirits Ret. Ass'n., Inc., v. Thomas, № 18–96, 588 U. S. ___, slip op., at 24 – 26 (2019) (holding that the verbatim text of the Twenty-First Amendment cannot “save” a statute that unduly burdens interstate commerce). What justifies the notion, then, of calling the Federal Government “federal”? OzzyMuffin238 (talk) 03:09, 23 December 2022 (UTC)

 * After a couple more years of having learned about the Constitution and law, as well as about the practice of law, I've come to the conclusion that the General Government, as the Founders would have called it, “is no longer one of limited and enumerated powers.” Raich, supra, at 58 (Thomas, J., dissenting).  This is not, however, by amendment, as by Article V: but by judicial activism—specifically, by construing the Commerce Clause so broadly as to render void the Tenth Amendment's prohibition on the exercise of powers “not delegated” to the United States.  It has nothing to do with the Supremacy Clause and everything to do with wanting the General Government to have “a general police power.”  United States v. Lopez, 514 U. S. 549, 567 (1995).
 * Truly, the Government of today has changed from its original federo-national character to that of a devolved, central government. OzzyMuffin238 (talk) 02:24, 15 June 2024 (UTC)

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Criteria?
I don't see which is the criteria that has been used for this “List of unitary states with devolution” table. For instance, Chilean regions have no Legislature, nor lawmaking. Same as France, which is extremely centralist. It is highly unaccurate to say those countries have a devolution process like the ones in the United Kingdom or in Spain. Also, Portugal has only two self-governing regions (Azores and Madeira) — the remaining ones are subject to the Lisbon government.

In order to create a proper table, I suggest to set a criteria. For instance:

—Only States in which one or more subnational entities have Legislature and lawmaking (not only rulemaking) can enter. —One column telling how many regions are in that country, divided into two other columns: one for self-governing regions and another one for bare administrative regions (important for Italy and Portugal). —One column saying if the self-governing regions have both Executive branch, Legislature and/or Judiciary. —One column that shows which is the electoral system (direct? parliamentary? appointed by the Head of State?). —One column explaining where we can find the limits on this devolution (Constitution? special law? regional constitution? bilateral agreement?).

Probably some uncommon cases may enter. For instance, Iraq is officially a federal State, but that's not accurate. Actually, its devolution system is similar to the Spanish one. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DiegoPonga (talk • contribs) 10:16, 21 September 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Devolution