text:
Talk:Witold Pilecki

Suggested edits
Could this section be used to allow users not holding extended access levels to suggest changes?

I'd like to point out an editing lapse:

The section 'Outside Auschwitz' contains the following passage halfway through the first paragraph. the camp's resistance was judged to lack lacked sufficient strength

--Singerbergler (talk) 07:12, 30 November 2021 (UTC)

 * I suggest to edit "In 1942, Pilecki's resistance movement was also using a home-made radio transmitter to broadcast details [...] using a radio transmitter that was built by camp inmates." into "In 1942, Pilecki's resistance movement was also using a radio transmitter built by camp inmates to broadcast details [...]" Otrebus (talk) 12:28, 25 May 2023 (UTC)

Also: 'After the War': "hearrived" (missing space).

-- Jmranger (talk) 01:50, 3 December 2021 (UTC)
 * Issues fixed, thank you. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 10:50, 18 December 2021 (UTC)

For the "Legacy" section, the Swedish band Sabaton recorded a song about him, "Inmate 4859" on the album, "Heroes". (Their subjects are often lesser-known people and events from (war) history.) That's honestly probably the largest pop-culture reference made to the guy so far. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cevmarauder (talk • contribs) 19:27, 7 November 2022 (UTC)

 * Agreed Char322 (talk) 04:58, 25 September 2023 (UTC)
 * @Char322 @Cevmarauder Added with a reference. The biggest issue is finding a reliable reference for such trivia. If you want to speed up addition of such content, please provide references. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 08:38, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

Did you know nomination
Did you know nominations/Witold Pilecki

The lede and the article tell rather different stories
The body of the article shows that there was a massive ideological and tactical conflict between Pilecki and the leadership of the group he had co-founded (which was drifting so much to the far right that even the prospect of their becoming Nazi collaborators no longer seemed out of the question), that said leadership chose him, on its own initiative, for the Auschwitz mission and that while they didn't officially order him to go there, he himself saw their 'offer' as a punishment for his opposition to them (which implies that, for whatever reason, he considered it difficult to refuse the offer). All of this is a very different situation from what anybody who hears the word 'volunteer' without further explanations and qualifications would imagine. Nonetheless, the lede just says that he 'volunteered', as if that were a sufficient summary of what happened, and omits all mention of his conflict with the TAP leadership. I can only describe that as a misleading lede. All the 'inconvenient' parts that do not fit a neat and simple black-and-white patriotic hagiography are swept under the rug. Anonymous44 (talk) 15:41, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

 * Blame the sources. Wikipedia job is not to correct great wrongs but to summarize what sources say. Most of the sources about Pilecki call him a volunteer and don't question that. Only recently one or two scholars have raised questions about whether this is the most correct term. They may be right - but they don't get to rewrite history, not until more sources appear to support rewording. See WP:DUE. Also, WP:WRONGS. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here  08:43, 25 September 2023 (UTC)

New feature film about Pilecki, The Pilecki Report, 2023
A new feature film about Pilecki's life, "Raport Pileckiego"/"The Pilecki Report," was released in 2023. Directed and written by Krzysztof Lukaszewicz, with Przemyslaw Wyszynski in the role of Pilecki, the film focuses on Pilecki's actions against the Nazi occupation of Poland and elucidates his arrest in 1940, his imprisonment at Auschwitz and his escape in 1943, his participation in the Warsaw uprising and subsequent arrest, his eventual arrest and torture by Polish communist authorities in Mokotow Prison, in Warsaw, and his execution at Mokotow Prison. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Matildathehun (talk • contribs) 15:32, 6 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 8 January 2024
Additional picture: Jedrzej1224 (talk) 14:02, 8 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Please specify where to place this picture. Good day—  RetroCosmos  talk 11:17, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Witold Pilecki


text:
Ugly Man Records

Ugly Man Records is a British independent record label based in Rhos on Sea, Wales, originally in Manchester. It released debut singles for many Manchester bands, including Elbow, the Man From Delmonte and I Am Kloot. It was set up in Bootle, Merseyside in 1986 with the release of "Wonderful Life" by the Liverpool-based singer Black, which reached number 72 in the UK Singles Chart, before going on to greater success when reissued by major label A&M.

Previously on Ugly Man Records
Artists who have worked with Ugly Man Records

 * balaji b214
 * Black
 * Bone-Box
 * Mustafa Kamal Qureshi
 * The Spitting Pips
 * Grown Up Strange
 * The Danny Boys
 * Man From Delmonte
 * Gayna Rose Madder
 * The Desert Wolves
 * Dub Sex
 * The County Fathers
 * Ambitious Beggars
 * Too Much Texas
 * Fallover 24
 * Jylt
 * Arthur Magee
 * I Am Kloot
 * Elbow
 * Sleepwalker
 * Loafer
 * LazyEye
 * The Jade Assembly
 * Bryan Glancy
 * Indigo Jones
 * Silverman
 * The Milk & Honey Band
 * Josephine Oniyama
 * Vinny Peculiar
 * Tompaulin
 * Monomania
 * Sandbox
 * Sandy Kilpatrick
 * Shakedown Stockholm
 * Jimmy & the Revolvers
 * Echolines

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Ugly Man Records


text:
Talk:Haftara

Length of article
Even though this article is incomplete, it's definitely more than a stub, so I'm going to remove the notice - Night Gyr 08:03, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

¶ I went through this article and un-italicized almost every appearance of "haftarah" - partly because it is burdensome to keep italicizing it and mostly because, in Wiki style (which closes up every gap to only one space) italics do not mix well with roman type.Sussmanbern (talk) 21:43, 14 June 2014 (UTC); ¶ I have done some fiddling with the formatting of notes in the Listings because printing the PDF of this article as a BOOKLET resulted in ugly line breaks, so my alterations were cosmetic in anticipation of booklet printing. Sussmanbern (talk) 19:27, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

¶ I would very much like some guidance or comment ASAP: Should I offer, in the section on the Blessings, the text of the Haftarah blessings? And, if so, must I offer the Hebrew text and a transliteration in Latin lettering or is it enough to offer a straight English translation of the blessings - whose Hebrew text is extremely easy to find elsewhere on the internet? I hesitate to offer Hebrew and transliteration because these were offered for other prayers in some other Wiki articles and the resulting presentations were not aesthetically pleasing. Sussmanbern (talk) 12:12, 17 June 2014 (UTC) ¶  Having gotten absolutely no response, I went ahead with nothing but the English for all the blessings, which I hope will satisfy most people. Sussmanbern (talk) 18:01, 27 June 2014 (UTC)

¶ I have revised the list of haftaro readings, a considerable effort - and, the material being what it is, incapable of pleasing everybody. Consider this work as done in honor of my parents. Sussmanbern (talk) 20:30, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

¶ Several contributors found and corrected errors I had made, for which I am Very Grateful, and, please, I hope people will continue to refine my list. Sussmanbern (talk) 00:54, 22 December 2015 (UTC)
 * I am one of the people constantly checking the accuracy of this list. So I stay tuned. Thank you very much for compiling so much important information! Very great! --Chajm (talk) 08:38, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

¶ I am VERY grateful indeed for your kind words. And, yes, I have no doubt that errors crept into my work, so I am also grateful for the corrections. Sussmanbern (talk) 15:39, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

I notice that (on 2 Oct 2018) the Editor eliminated the "See Also" segment, which contained links to Wiki articles on Torah Reading, Weekly Torah readings, Cantillation, Parsha, etc. I had not originated this segment, but I do feel that it was relevant and might well have remained. However, I am not so bold as to challenge the Editor's decision on this matter. Sussmanbern (talk) 14:59, 17 October 2018 (UTC)

Other traditions
Nevi'im notes that Yemenites translate the haftarah verse by verse. That information should be included here, too, when someone writes about the procedure for reading the haftarah.  —msh210 19:11, 8 Feb 2005 (UTC)

¶ In 2014, some three years after I worked on the original list, I have made a point of printing out the Hebrew version of this Wiki article (available just by clicking the Hebrew option on the lefthand column when this article comes up) and comparing its list with the one here in the English language version. The Hebrew version's list of Haftarot readings, which is supposedly based on the Encyclopedia Talmudit article, contains a few regional groups that this list lacked: namely, Sefardic from Spain, Sefardic from Maghreb (North Africa), and Mizrahi Sefardic (this last may be simply Mizrahi). The Hebrew version did not include the Romaniote. I added a few new entries from the Hebrew list and spotted/corrected a few of my typos. It is clear that the Encyclopedia article mentioned is CONSIDERABLY more detailed and extensive than either Wiki list - although I suspect that the Encyclopedia list has been fattened up with evanescent variants that not only were very localized (perhaps to one congregation in a city of several congregations) but might have been very temporary (changed when another rabbi took over that congregation) and long ago discarded (that change of rabbis may have occurred more than a century ago, etc.) I continue to compare the two lists and make additions and corrections. Sussmanbern (talk) 04:49, 12 April 2014 (UTC)

¶ After collecting the lists from a number of supposedly authoritative publications, I find that no two lists match exactly (even the Jewish Publication Society Bible lists from 1917 and 1985 differ), and the more lists and authorities I accumulate the more variants I will pile up, so I have stopped looking for more lists. Sussmanbern (talk) 12:13, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

¶ As a follow-up, even the Hebrew version of this article creates problems. I have sources here that contradict the list in the Hebrew version and I am not willing to assume that all my sources are wrong and the Hebrew version's sources are right. So, where there is a significant conflict with plausible evidence for my own list, I have marked that "some" use this and "some" used the other. If there is a Wiki policy that the English and Hebrew versions must agree 100% please tell me ASAP. Sussmanbern (talk) 16:59, 18 April 2014 (UTC)

¶ In 2016 I again print out the Hebrew (Israeli) version of this article for the list of Haftaros, and the list there is given in the ancient and medieval manner (not using chapter and verse numbers) of quoting the words that begin the Haftaro reading, frequently without an explicit citation of the concluding words of the reading. It will take a bit of time to compare the list here with the Israeli list but I expect few or no differences. Sussmanbern (talk) 03:35, 20 August 2016 (UTC) ¶  As a follow-up, in early 2019 I check again and the Hebrew version has recast its list entirely in the style I use, with chapter and verse numbers (using Hebrew letters for the numerals) BUT the automatic computerized translation of the Hebrew version into English scrambles some of the abbreviations and only the Hebrew text is trustworthy. Sussmanbern (talk) 23:40, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

¶''' A VERY FUNNY THING: IN the course of making revisions I emailed the National Library of Israel to see if they could guide me to an authoritative list of the multitude of traditions of Haftarah readings .... and they sent me a link to this very list in this English language version of Wikipedia!!!''' Sussmanbern (talk) 17:10, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Torah portion
Torah portion does not belong on this page; it's irrelevant (and too long btw).—msh210 ℠ 19:10, 2 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Hi msh: (1) The Haftarah and the weekly Torah reading of the Parsha (Torah portion) are both part of the services on Shabbat. The Haftarah comes after the Maftir as the last part of each Shabbat's Torah reading. (2) The ancient Jewish sages who created the system of reading the Haftarah with the weekly Torah portion chose sections from Tanakh for the Haftarah to match a major a major theme in each week's Parsha, so that the Parsha and Hafatarah are intrinsically connected. (3) The template Torah portion is at the bottom of the Haftarah article's page, so essentially it's part of the "See also" section which is a legitimate way of connecting related and connected topics on an article. (4) If a reader finds the Torah portion to be "too intrusive" then any reader is free to click "Hide" on the top right section of the template's heading which shrinks it to an unobtrusive one liner. Finally, (5) the Torah portion is presently diligently updated weekly by User:Dauster early each Sunday so that any readers may learn more about the weekly Parsha. User:Dauster summarizes each week's Parsha and adds some interesting graphics which surely adds life and color to a page that may gain the attention of readers who don't know much about this subject and may want to learn more. Please refer all further comments and discussions to one centralized location at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Judaism Thank you. IZAK 07:22, 4 July 2006 (UTC)

¶ I won't argue that the Torah portion is irrelevant, but it is plausibly relevant to the reason a passage from the Prophets was chosen for that week's Haftaro, and it seems a fairly good way to catalog the Haftaro portions, and apportioning them by Torah portions seems appropriate and efficient and not an outrageous use of space, so I re-inserted them. Perhaps this way their inclusion seems suitable. Sussmanbern (talk) 00:58, 15 January 2017 (UTC) ¶ I have added a very few notes about the reading of some Torah portions simply because I thought they would be of interest and because there seemed no other place in Wiki to put them and they were not conveniently findable otherwise. Sussmanbern (talk) 02:59, 10 February 2017 (UTC) ¶Very recently an unidentified person omitted one of my many notes about a tradition relating to a Torah reading, and I reinstated it. I worked hard on that list, the notes are brief but, I think, interesting and useful. And, I wish to emphasize, not otherwise available on Wikipedia - nor, in my own experience, in any one book but only from combing several bulky volumes over a considerable period. The Torah reading list was a sort of necessary skeleton on which to hang the list of Haftarah readings, and it seemed to me appropriate, as long as it was going to be done, to be as informative as could be done compactly. So I will be grumpy about such deletions. Sussmanbern (talk) 08:46, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

What is Haftarah read from?
Is there a special scroll for this too, or is a "book-shaped" book used? Is a book of all the Nevi'im used or one that contains only the various Haftarah portions? Where is the book stored? -- 77.7.128.202 18:14, 3 September 2007 (UTC)

The Haftarah is normally read from a chumash or tikkun, or from a booklet specific to that portion. I have seen -- in one place only -- a scroll of Isaiah, constructed just like a Torah scroll. (Form follows function to make a double-handled horizontal scroll.) A More Perfect Onion (talk) 15:06, 2 September 2008 (UTC)

It's actually more common to have the haftarah read from a scroll, however upon the printing press becoming prevalent it won. Anyhow there is no "special" book, just a book that has the text, with the cantillation marks. Saxophonemn (talk) 21:59, 20 June 2010 (UTC); -- There have been Haftarah scrolls, but they are at least as bulky as Torah scrolls, and, unlike the Torah - in which the text and its sequence are uniformly fixed - the Haftarah scroll presents the choices from among many possibilities made by the scribe or copyist. The many regional and idiosyncratic variants in the choice of Haftarah readings probably is one reason why books of Haftarah readings have tended to supplant the use of Haftarah scrolls (another reason is that the book form would have the vowels and accents). Sussmanbern (talk) 21:59, 9 March 2015 (UTC)

¶ I took it upon myself to delete a sentence from the paragraph on Torah Blessings, which claimed: "The Koren Tanakh, published by Koren Publishers Jerusalem is the official Tanakh accepted by the Chief Rabbinate of Israel for synagogue haftarah reading." This sentence was marked nearly 3 years ago "" and no citation had been supplied. Moreover, I have my own doubts as the accuracy of the claim. The Koren edition had been highly praised by the Israeli govt when it first appeared in the late 1960s, it closely resembles the Baer-Delitsch massoretic edition of 1895, but it is not the edition that the Israeli govt distributes to its military troops (that one is a pocket sized edition edited by Dotan from the Leningrad Codex). Many other editions are in active use in Israeli and other synagogues, and a much more recent edition produced by the Hebrew University of Jerusalem and based on the Aleppo Codex (the edition is called Keter Yerushalyam, 'Jerusalem Crown') had gotten the same sort of official praise that the Koren edition got nearly a half-century earlier. On another topic, I believe rabbinic authority permits the reading of the haftarah from a printed book, which would be equipped with vowel points and cantillation marks. Sussmanbern (talk) 15:12, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

I do believe that it is now very common, but not universal, for the Haftaro to be read from a printed book in which the Hebrew text is supplied with all the 'points' - vowels and cantillation marks. Sussmanbern (talk) 09:03, 29 May 2018 (UTC)

¶I believe the following section is an error: "Some Orthodox insist that a scroll of haftarot is not sufficient, nor the scroll of an individual prophetic book, but require a scroll of the entire Prophetic segment of the Bible (Sefer Navi), which is relatively uncommon, although some would allow such a scroll to be written in ordinary ink or on ordinary paper (unlike Torah scrolls), and if such a scroll is unavailable the entire congregation must read the haftarah for themselves, silently or in a murmur, from books rather than the maftir reciting aloud from something other than a scroll." Sussmanbern (talk) 23:44, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

The source quotes Rav YD Soloveitchik and Rav Hershel Schachter, but both of them use the term "Sefer Navi" as a scroll of an individual Navi (i.e. Sefer Yehoshua or Sefer Shmuel), not as Sefer Kol HaNeviim (scroll containing all prophets). This can be verified directly with Rav Schachter or any of his talmidim at YU. In other words, their opinion is the same as the second point of this section (Shitas HaGR"A). 108.27.224.15 (talk) 19:06, 9 October 2018 (UTC) ¶ I am reluctant to omit this sentence completely because it has some documentation supporting it, but I have added some words to indicate that it is definitely a minority opinion. Sussmanbern (talk) 15:18, 17 October 2018 (UTC) Thank you, and I'm sorry I wasn't clear. I"m saying that the author of this section misunderstood the sources in footnote 20, and the sources do not require "a scroll of the entire Prophetic segment of the Bible", but talk about a scroll of an individual book, just as described above this section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.27.224.15 (talk) 21:00, 31 December 2018 (UTC)

Additions of special haftarot and Italian tradition
Although not common with Haftarot lists, I have provided the verse numbers for each week's Torah reading; these seem to be universal, and I thought it might make the list a trifle more helpful (and it's a very small addition). I did not know - at least not about Mizrachi and regional traditions - the verses read for those Sabbaths that combine two parshas, nor the Torah readings for the various holidays, so I did not provide those. Perhaps someone with sufficient Yiddishkeit can fill those gaps.Sussmanbern (talk) 22:18, 24 August 2010 (UTC)

I filled in the list of 'haftarot' for special occasions and the Italian custom for each portion. My source for the Italian custom is the website www.torah.it which has a page listing available MP3s of various Italian rites, including all the 'haftarot'. While the page is in Italian, the list of 'parshiyot', occasions and 'haftarot' should be straightforward enough for an English-speaker. I have noticed a few instances where the text indicating the 'haftarah' differs from what is in the MP3, in which case I would go by what is in the recording since the one in the recording makes more sense (for instance, the text indicates that the 'haftarah' for Shabbat coinciding with Rosh Chodesh omits the verse which is the reason why that particular section was selected for the occasion, while the recording includes that verse and is the same as all other customs). I checked several of them, but I might have missed a few discrepancies. Sussmanbern (talk) 23:47, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

The 'haftarot' for special occasions for Ashkenazic and Sephardic customs are listed in virtually any chumash. Sussmanbern (talk) 23:47, 9 February 2019 (UTC)

162.84.234.174 (talk) 06:15, 3 August 2008 (UTC)Scott

Not being able to leave well enough alone, I also double-checked the Haftarot, particularly for the Yemenite & Italic readings, using the tables at the end of the following editions of the Hebrew Bible: Cassuto, the Israeli Defense Ministry, and the Jerusalem Crown. All of these have the Ashkenaz, Sfardic, and Yemenite lists, and Cassuto also has the Italian list. ¶ Very quickly I found that these lists did not always agree with what had been previously posted here. Additionally, the list in this article included at least two unidentified references: SN under Noach, and Q under Vayera. I changed some entries on the basis of the Bibles I was using: Chayei Sarah, Toledot, Vayetze, Vayishlach, Miketz, Bo, Mishpatim, Ki Tisa, Pekudai, Tzav, Acharei, Kedoshim, Naso, Masei, & Vayelech -- someone else may want to check if my meddling was an improvement or not; my lists did not provide for those weeks when two parshot are combined. There were instance where the Bibles I had in front of me disagreed with each other. Perhaps someone armed with more authoritative lists can triple-check the list here. ¶As a further follow-up, I found elsewhere on the internet a list very similar to the one here, at www.experiencefestival.com; it explained the abbreviations I previously could not figure out: Q meant Kariate and it had only a few entries for that (which I changed to "K" and used here), SN was for Mahgreb (which I spelled out, used only once I think) and a couple of other abbreviations for regionalisms that it never actually used -- but these regional peculiarities only appear for readings in Genesis, and I suspect the compiler of the list simply became slack. I also revised the entire list using the notes in the ArtScroll and Hirsch chumashim (Hirsch in particular mentions some Italic and Frankfurt readings), compared with the lists in the Jerusalem Crown Bible, the Israel Defense Forces Bible, the Koren Bible, and the (for English-speaking Jews) ubiquitous Hertz chumash; evidently there is some disagreement or confusion over a few Haftarot, which I have tried to note. Sussmanbern (talk) 00:44, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

As a further update, I came across a complete Karaite list, on the website of one (of the very few) Karaite synagogues in the US: orahsaddiqim.org. This matched the few Karaite entries from the experiencefestival list, so I gambled that it is reliable, and I have added these K entries throughout the list. You might notice that the Karaite readings rarely coincide with anyone else's, that there are about an equal number of instances where the K reading closely approximates that of another group, and that many of the unique K readings are from the middle part of Isaiah. Sussmanbern (talk) 12:03, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Further good luck, I was fortunate to acquire a back issue of the Luach Colel Chabad, for the year 5763 (Sept. 2002-Sept. 2003). This provides the AH Haftarot for some of the Sabbaths - it omitted the specific Haftarot primarily for those Sabbaths where, it appears, the Ashkenaz and Sefardic lists were in agreement, and in that particular year, as in any year, some of the Sabbaths did not recite the "usual" Haftarot because the date was also associated with a New Month or some other holy day. However, I did my best to extract useful information from that one calendar. It turns out that the current Chabad luach is obligingly online as www.colelchabad.org, so using the current year's calendar I was able to add a few more items. I found a fairly complete array at www.chabad.org, and using that I was able to fill in most blanks. As a generality, Chabad follows the standard Ashkenaz list, certainly where the Ashkenaz and Sefardic lists agree, and I have specified the AH reading primarily for exceptions. Sussmanbern (talk) 04:32, 28 August 2010 (UTC) ¶ I must shamefully admit that I was the last person to realize that Sefard is very different from Sefardic. Most Hassidic congregations use a Sefard (not Sefardic) nusach, which is much closer to Ashkenaz than to true Sefardic tradition. Someone described to me the Sefard liturgy as "Ashkefard". It follows that Sefard haftaro lists mostly follow Ashkenaz tradition, with variants that may differ from one Hassidic school to another (e.g., the Chabad has its own list). Sussmanbern (talk) 22:50, 28 March 2011 (UTC)

Haftarot list in Encyclopedia Talmudit (1961, volume 10)
¶ A recent update:  I asked around and the best source, according to a couple of scholars who took my question seriously, of the multitude of traditions about the haftaro schedule is the list appearing at the end of volume 10 of the Encyclopedia Talmudit, edited by Bar-Ilan (Jerusalem 1961)[ISBN 9654450003, Library of Congress call number BM500.5.E6]. I was able to xerox this at the Library of Congress. It is painfully comprehensive but also painfully hard to read; it is entirely in Hebrew, of course, but not the prayerbook Hebrew that some of us (e.g., me) are limited to. It sometimes indicates where some traditions start a reading but not where they end it. It references numerous non-Israeli locations by using Hebrew names which may be relatively recent and some are not found in my Hebrew dictionaries. A few I could make out the hard way; e.g., Amstrdm probably means Amsterdam. Some I am unwilling to guess at. It also references an array of rabbinic books with which I am completely unfamiliar. Some of the references, I suppose, are entirely obsolete -- traditions noted in a pre-industrial age that were wiped out when, for example, the community was scattered by adversity or the local minhag supplanted by printed volumes from bigger communities. I would estimate it lists more than 300 items for approx 52 weeks of haftarot, but, as I said, some were very obscure and/or long out of use. I am going to add SOME of these to the list over the next several months. Sussmanbern (talk) 21:20, 28 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Hello to all. I am currently working on a comprehensive list of this sort here at the Hebrew Wikisource, and making good use of the list at the end of volume 10 of the Talmudic Encyclopedia, which I agree is the most comprehensive and reliable source for this. If anyone has any questions about using the list and how to translate it, please ask freely and I'd be glad to help. Shabbat Shalom, Dovi (talk) 05:19, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

A thousand blessings on you, Dovi. "Any questions"? I have nothing but questions! So far I have only been able to scratch the surface of the encyclopedia's list -- there are dozens of geographical and bibliographic references that are completely beyond me. I am quite willing to yield the floor to you, and ask you, please please please, to provide us with an English version (with helpful comments for the non-Yeshivish) of your list and/or the Encyclopedia's list. Sussmanbern (talk) 12:10, 29 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Shavua tov, sorry that I don't have the time and energy to do an English list (the Hebrew one has taken a couple of years). But if you have any specific questions trying to understand the ET list I'd be glad to help. Dovi (talk) 20:23, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

¶ Using the aforementioned list in the Encyc. Talmudit, I have added the Romanian (R) list, which is nearly complete. The Encyc list does not include Karaite readings, but the duplication and near-duplication between Romanian and (from another source) Karaite readings may be significant. There are also differences between the lists found in authoritative Bible editions of the last hundred years and the Encyc list, which I am sure is significant. Sussmanbern (talk) 17:01, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

 * That's interesting. The list at Hebrew Wikisource shows fairly clearly how all of the main traditions in rabbinic Judaism (Eastern, Ashkenaz, Italian and Yemenite) are all related traditions. Even when they don't agree with each other exactly, the differences are usually minor variations related to the starting or stopping point. Significant variations (i.e. reading an entirely different section) are very much in the minority. When you compare these similar traditions to the list of Karaite haftarot at the Hebrew Wikipedia, however, it quickly becomes clear that we are dealing a separate tradition, because the majority of haftarot are completely different from all of the rabbinic ones (different sections entirely). While even the minority of similarities can be explained as logical choices.

 * If we take the haftarot for the entire book of Genesis, for instance, there isn't a single major divergence amongst the rabbinic haftarot (with the possible exception of va-yetze). But the Karaite haftarah only coincides with the rabbinic ones for three parashiyyot.

 * A strict comparison of Romanian versus Karaite haftarot would be interesting, to see whether there is something there, and if there is whether there is a historical explanation for it. Dovi (talk) 20:23, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

To expand on my last comment: I can make out only SOME of the geographic references in the Encyc. list (I can guess that "amstrdm" means Amsterdam (5 כ ), but I am not sure if "srkusa" (8 ל ) means Syracuse in Sicily or Circasia in western Russia - and there are many like that. But if I were to compare the list of start/end verses in the Encyc (without regard to their attributed sources) with the lists in reputable Bibles of the last century or so, I would notice that the modern Bibles not only do not agree 100% with each other (as I have sometimes noted) but also not agree with anything on the Encyc list for some parshas. Sussmanbern (talk) 01:42, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

 * It means Syracuse, Sicily, which had an ancient Jewish community dating back to Roman times. Dovi (talk) 05:56, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

 * Could you give me one or two specific examples of this? Dovi (talk) 05:46, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I can certainly give you more than one or two. I hope you will excuse my transliteration.  Under כ Caph, Ashkenazic localities:  1 (Israel?), 2 (an abbreviation: Ppdm), 3 (lyssa). Under ל Lamed, Sefardic localities: 2 (bbl, is this Iraq? but the next entry is Baghdad), 4 (an abbreviation: grbh), 5 (halav), 6 (Tripoli - but the one in Libya or the one in Lebanon?), 7 (kfa - evidently related to Croatia), 10 (prs - I would guess Persia but maybe Paris), and 11 (knstntin, which I would guess means Istambul). ¶ I don't even try to figure out the other source citations - editions of Humashim, textbooks, manuscripts, etc.  I suspect some of these lists, and some of the locality lists, were not deeply ingrained but were temporary and confined to the preferences (or whims) of a single rabbi in a single synagogue. Sussmanbern (talk) 18:04, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Hi, I meant one or two examples of lack of agreement between published lists that you mentioned. :-)

Regardless, I'd be happy to explain the place-names: Ashkenaz (Kaf) Sepharad (lamed):
 * 1=Land of Israel
 * 2=Frankfurt en Main
 * 3=Leszno, Poland
 * 2=Bavel=Babylonia=Iraq from a study of Babylonian Jewish liturgical poetry
 * 3=Bahgdad from a list printed in a prayer book
 * 4=Djerba, Tunisia
 * 5=Halab = Aleppo, Syria
 * 6=Tripoli in Libya
 * 7=I don't know.
 * 10=Paras=Persia=Iran
 * 11=I believe you are correct that it is Istanbul, despite Constantine, Algeria. Dovi (talk) 20:34, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you enormously. I will use this information to add some more localized data to the Haftarot list here.  I would be very appreciative if someone who knows the Wikipedia technology would add the ref to the Encyc list to the footnotes. Sussmanbern (talk) 00:54, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

 * Lamed 7 is the rite of Feodosiya (Crimea) and stands for the “unfied siddur” of the Crimea (Kaffa rite). --Chajm (talk) 08:33, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
 * Lamed 9 is the rite of Fez (Morocco) --Chajm (talk) 09:56, 16 February 2016 (UTC)

¶ I have also compared the list that appears in Biblia Hebraica Leningradensia, ed. by Aron Dotan (rev., 2001, Mass.: Hendrickson Publ'rs) appendix E; which includes the usual Ashk/Sfardic as well as mentions of the Chabad, the Frankfurt, "Maghreb communities" (North Africa), Portuguese, et al., and added some entries from this list as well (many entries are simply for "some communities" without further identification, so I have not added those). Sussmanbern (talk) 18:21, 12 January 2011 (UTC) ¶ The more variants I see in more lists, the more I suspect that some of these regional variants are not permanent traditions but mere transitory preferences of the current or recent (or maybe not at all recent) rabbi, the edition of the Humash that could be bought in bulk for the congregation, etc., and would perhaps change with a new rabbi or new Humash. It may well be that some of the variants on various lists were taken from old documents of previous generations and reflect variants that have already been discarded; this may explain the multitude and contradictions of some listings Sussmanbern (talk) 03:25, 17 January 2011 (UTC) ¶ I fully expect that the list of Haftaro readings in various traditions is not totally exhaustive - if only because some obscure traditions still await discovery and/or because, even at this moment, the rabbi of some congregation or the editor of some Humash is going to indulge his own preferences. This list cannot please everybody and I doubt it would completely please anybody, and I expect it to be tinkered with decades after I am dust. Sussmanbern (talk) 22:51, 15 July 2014 (UTC) ¶ I have ceased hunting up more variants for the very simple reason(s) that (1) there are diminishing returns at this point, finding more variants requires a lot more digging and the difficulty of finding them indicates that they were not used by a sizeable demographic, and, perhaps more important, (2) little can be learned from additional variants (and probably little can be learned from some already listed) - they do not indicate much about the history or peregrinations of liturgical traditions but many of these are the result of the congregations buying in bulk humashim from some other region, or the innovation of one rabbi - which may or may not have been countermanded by a subsequent rabbi or the subsequent purchase of another edition of humashim, etc. Sussmanbern (talk) 14:23, 19 October 2014 (UTC) I have NOT translated/listed every item from Encyc. Talmudit - I have skipped those whose descriptions suggest that they were not widely used but may have been the evanescent whim of a single rabbi or a single Humash editor. On the other hand, I did go to some sources (such as Dotan's Bible) to get items not listed in the Encyc.Talmudit. I certainly hope that people, even if they don't agree with my choices, understand the thinking behind my decisions on this. Sussmanbern (talk) 09:18, 13 April 2015 (UTC)

Karaites
For the point of this article it doesn't seem to matter what they do, it clutters the article, I would reduce it to Ashkenazi and Sfardi, and put more footnotes elsewhere. Saxophonemn (talk) 22:03, 20 June 2010 (UTC)

I think that the inclusion of Karaites is worthwhile for historic studies (and because this data about Karaites is so hard to find through other means). BUT ... would someone please explain somewhere in the article what "Dardai communities" (e.g. for Genesis, Chayye Sarah) are! Sussmanbern (talk) 17:33, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Dardai or Dor Daim are a subset of Yemenites. This article links to the article that explains this. I strongly advocate the inclusion of as many traditions as possible. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 12:28, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

As noted in the previous section, I got a complete Karaite list from a website of one of the very few Karaite synagogues in the US: orahsaddiqim.org. This matched the few Karaite entries already in the list, so I supposed that the rest of the list was reliable. Sussmanbern (talk) 12:05, 26 August 2010 (UTC) ¶ I agree with Sir Myles about including as many traditions as possible. I have found references to a Romanian tradition, which evidently has a few variants from (I suppose) the Askenaz list. Sussmanbern (talk) 15:40, 28 August 2010 (UTC); ¶ I have since discovered that the "minhag romanian" was actually used in Greece & Turkey, made use of a sort of Greek version of Ladino or Yiddish -- i.e., Greek vocabulary using Hebrew grammar and written in Hebrew lettering, and moreover is now fallen into total disuse and is extinct. Sussmanbern (talk) 19:15, 14 September 2010 (UTC). Follow-up in previous section mentions that Romanian list tends to resemble Karaite at least as much as Ashkenazic readings.Sussmanbern (talk) 17:59, 30 October 2010 (UTC)

 * It's Romaniotes, not Romanian, though the liturgy is called minhag Romania. There are still Romaniote communities, but they now use the Sephardi liturgy. --Sir Myles na Gopaleen (the da) (talk) 10:19, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

I am an American Karaite, and would be happy to provide any information I can, although I'm not sure what would be the most useful. As to the similarities between Romanian and Karaite Haftarot (mentioned above), the link is in all probability historical. Karaites used to be in Eastern Europe as well as the Middle East, but political strife, long separation, and cultural changes in both regions have rendered the populations of the areas distinct. Karaites are now generally understood to be non-Talmudic Jews mostly originating in the Middle East, while Qaraims (or Kraylars) identify themselves as a non-Jewish, semitic ethnic group in Eastern Europe. My understanding from old-timers is that the division has happened in the last hundred or so years. Hope that helps. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.213.73.48 (talk) 08:43, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

Typo in Haftarot for Leviticus
In the text:

Haftarot for Leviticus

* Vayikra (1:1–5:26) o A, S: Isaiah 43:21–44:23 o Y, I, some Maghreb: Isaiah 43:21–44:6 o R: Isaiah 43:21–44:13 o K: Isaiah 53:21–54:23

The final item looks inconsistent, especially as Isaiah 53:21 does not exist. I assume it should read: o K: Isaiah 43:21–44:23 --87.113.47.214 (talk) 23:05, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

¶ I thank you for correcting my error. Sussmanbern (talk) 04:22, 5 December 2011 (UTC)

¶ In April 2014 I printed out the Hebrew version of this Wiki article and compared the lists. In so doing I was able to add some items and spotted & corrected some errors I had made in 2011. Sussmanbern (talk) 13:07, 12 April 2014 (UTC) ¶ I can admit, with some confidence, that typos were not confined to Leviticus. Dealing with multitudes of numbers, sometimes expressed in Hebrew letters, sometimes in tiny type or blurry microfilm (and once or twice the fault was in the book I was reading from), it's a wonder I didn't make more mistakes. I am grateful for every effort to correct my errors. Sussmanbern (talk) 15:44, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

The Romaniote Haftaroth
Could someone please tell me from which books the informations of this article about the readings of Romaniotes originate? In the following texts I found other data:

"The prophetic readings of the Byzantine ritual differed fundamentally from those of the other Rabbanite Jews of the diaspora. They have been preserved in the editions of the haftarot published with the Commentary of David Kimchi in Constantinople, 1505; and in the edition of the Pentateuch and haftarot, published in Constantinople, 1522" (and theorizing the Romaniote readings were a perpetuation of the selections of early medieval Eretz Yisrael). Louis Finkelstein, "The Prophetic Readings According to the Palestinian, Byzantine, and Karaite Rites", Hebrew Union College Annual, vol. 17 (1942-1943) page 423; Adolf Büchler, "The Reading of the Law and Prophets in a Triennial Cycle (part ii)" Jewish Quarterly Review, vol. 6, nr. 1 (Oct. 1893) pages 1-73, discusses in some detail evidence of very early choices of haftarot, particularly of the Karaites. Informationskampagne (talk) 22:02, 2 May 2016 (UTC)
 * ¶ @User:Informationskampagne This list is based on the list of the Encyclopedia Talmudit - as far as I can see. This tradition was marked with a Resh (R) in the ET. Another user assumed this points to the Romanian minhag. This is somewhere above :-) --Chajm (talk) 14:17, 3 May 2016 (UTC)

Thanks a lot Chajm :)! Informationskampagne (talk) 11:29, 5 May 2016 (UTC)
 * I was wrong! @User:Informationskampagne (sorry) The romaniote haftarot are marked with a tet ט in the list of the ET. The Romaniote are marked with an R here in the Wikipedia list of the haftarot. --Chajm (talk) 22:00, 29 August 2016 (UTC)

@User:Chajm. Ok thanks that you have remember this. For which word stands the tav? Is it in the ET under "Haftarah"? Informationskampagne (talk) 00:17, 31 August 2016 (UTC)
 * @User:Informationskampagne From my point of view the creators of the table simply started with Alef and used the whole alfabet to mark the different minhagim. The letters are not meant as abbreviations. --Chajm (talk) 12:15, 5 September 2016 (UTC)

What "New" Testament?
From a Jewish perspective there is, of course, no "new" testament. Therefore I changed one unqualified reference that was not a quote from "New Testament" to NPOV "Christian Bible". There are couple of other instances in Reference number 8, but I seem to be unable to edit that section. Dori1951 (talk) 18:59, 15 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Haftara


text:
SAFEGE

SAFEGE is an acronym for the French consortium Société Anonyme Française d'Etude de Gestion et d'Entreprises (French Limited Company for the Study of Management and Business) and is pronounced in English.

Company
The consortium, consisting of 25 companies, including the tire-maker Michelin and the Renault automotive company, is a consulting and engineering bureau. It was formed in 1919 as Société Auxiliaire Française d'Électricité, Gaz et Eau, a holding company with interests in private water, gas, and electricity production and distribution. When in 1947, these public utilities were nationalised, the company became the engineering and consulting office which it is today, taking the name Société Anonyme Française d'Études, de Gestion et d'Entreprises.

Today the company is a subsidiary of Suez Environnement and specialises as a consultancy in water and environmental engineering, but not only (bought IDC, etc. ) Its main market is France, with 60% of the turnover. It also is a leader in several consortias beneficiaries of lots from the EC FWCs (6, 11 and coleading the 2).

SAFEGE type monorail
SAFEGE gained international recognition for its design of a suspended monorail in the 1960s. The design team was headed by Lucien Chadenson.

Design concept
The design of the system entails suspending passenger cars beneath rubber-tired wheel carriages of the type used more conventionally in the Paris Metro. The carriages are enclosed and supported by a box-like track or beam, with an opening in the bottom. The rubber wheels of the train run inside the track, supported by flanges on the bottom of the beam.

Unlike previous suspended monorails like the Schwebebahn in Wuppertal, Germany, the tracks are not exposed to inclement weather, and do not need any cleaning or ice-removal systems. This advantage enables them to run in cities where ice and other conditions would impair the reliability of the system.

Test installation
The test track built in France by SAFEGE in 1959, was a 1.4 km monorail line that featured prominently in the 1966 movie adaptation of Fahrenheit 451, directed by François Truffaut. Although the track was dismantled not long thereafter, the original car survived longer.

Market position
SAFEGE systems are the leading type of suspended railway in transit use, though this consists of just four installations of two different systems. Its chief and more numerous competitor in modern monorail applications are variations of the German-designed ALWEG system, in which the vehicles run on top of, and straddle, a solid beam.

Mitsubishi Heavy Industries
Mitsubishi Heavy Industries of Japan has developed a working system of SAFEGE-type suspended railways, and have made three such installations, two of which remain in operation today.

 * From early 1964 to December 1974, a 0.5 km single-line ran between Higashiyama Zoo and the nearby Botanical Gardens in Nagoya, Japan. While initially popular, it also suffered from mechanical problems and after the first two years of operation, the novelty wore off and it began making a loss. Plans to expand the zoo and gardens hastened its demise, although the car and a section of track is preserved at one of the stations. While it was initially marketed as a ride, rather than a means of transport, a fare was charged, making it the first revenue-earning SAFEGE/Mitsubishi-type monorail.
 * In 1970 the Shonan Monorail opened. It runs from Ōfuna Station in Kamakura to Shōnan-Enoshima Station in Fujisawa.
 * In 1988, the first stage of the Chiba Urban Monorail system opened, in Chiba. With a 15.2 km route length, it is the longest suspended monorail in the world.

Siemens

 * Two Siemens SIPEM lines exist in Germany, one on the Dortmund University campus, the other at the Düsseldorf airport. Siemens no longer actively markets this system, but does still deliver the software for the automatic operation of a SIPEM network and vehicles.

Unfulfilled proposals
In 1966, a proposal was considered to construct a SAFEGE-type monorail in the City of Manchester. The 16 mi line was planned to link Manchester Airport with the city and suburbs, with a tunnel under the city centre, but the scheme, along with the later Picc-Vic tunnel (which would be a conventional rapid transit line) was abandoned due to cost. The city eventually developed its own light rail network, Manchester Metrolink, of which one of its lines, opened in 2014, now links Manchester Airport to the city centre.

In November 1967, General Electric proposed to construct a SAFEGE monorail from downtown San Francisco to San Francisco International Airport. The City of San Francisco studied the proposal, along with an extension of the Southern Pacific Railroad's Peninsula Commute commuter rail line and an extension of the BART rapid transit system. The proposal's incompatibility with other rail transit lines, the urban design concerns of an elevated guideway, and potential competitive impact on parallel rapid transit lines, led to its dismissal in favor of a BART extension. Ultimately SFO was connected to downtown San Francisco via BART in 2003.

title: SAFEGE


text: User:Keith Edkins/todo

title: User:Keith Edkins/todo


text:
User:Al Beri~enwiki

Welcome to Wikipedia in Tatarish!

tt:User:Al_Beri

title: User:Al Beri~enwiki


text:
Talk:Copa América

Comment
It's a shame that Wikipedia hasn't given the Copa América the same amount of attention as was paid to Euro 2004. Mintguy (T) 08:19, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * You've not seen this then? Noisy 00:03, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Actually I hadn't. I missed the link to that page on this article. I didn't scroll down to see the list of linked hosts. As it happens though, I also meant coverage on the main page. The ITN template carried many of the results of Euro 2004. Mintguy (T) 00:56, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I removed  Copa America 1937 and then moved Copa America 1937 stub to South American Championship 1937, obviously that needs expanding --Dryazan 03:11, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * i'm slowly adding the several copa americas. i'll do 1937, eventually. of course any help appreciated SpiceMan 03:11, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The next edition of Copa América will be played in 2007 (as shown in the link below), not in 2006: http://www.peru.com/futbol/AutoNoticias/DetalleNoticia40222.asp. PMLF 17 Nov 2004
 * I will fix it ASAP --Carioca 5 July 2005 23:21 (UTC)

The USA has accepted the invitation to play in the next Copa America. There is a link on the individual page for the 2007 Copa America. I don't have time to update this page at the moment, but hopefully someone else can. Theasfl 17:36, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

Links

 * Argentine Squads in the Copa América 1916 - 1999 Mariano (t/c) 12:20, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

Oldest surviving national football competition in the world?
The first international football match was played in 1872 between England and Scotland, although at this stage the sport was rarely played outside Great Britain. As football began to increase in popularity, it was held as a demonstration sport (with no medals awarded) at the 1900 and 1904 Summer Olympics, and at the 1906 Intercalated Games football became an official competition at the 1908 Summer Olympics. To be correct, it would need to qualify itself as being a national event and outside the olympics. -- Alias Flood 15:45, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Not quite. Football at summer olympics is nowadays a U-23 event, and before that it was restricted to amateur players only. That said, summer olympics are not a "national football event", but rather a "sports event", which happens to include football. SpiceMan (会話) 23:37, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, I take that on board but I still think that for this article to claim this competition as the "oldest surviving national football competition in the world" without any qualification is misinforming, albeit I recognise that this has been stated in good faith. I really think that we need to qualify that statement or change it to "one of the oldest surviving national football competitions in the world". -- Alias Flood 23:51, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
 * According to the title at FIFA's official website, it is the oldest world competition . You could argue that the title of the article is wrong, since there were competitions held previous to the South American Championship of Nations (which are not longer held nowadays). However, I guess FIFA is authoritative enough on this subject. I'll remove the under dispute template as the wikipedia article is even more accurate than FIFA itself, since it states "surviving". SpiceMan (会話) 00:26, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree. Thank you for the reference. -- Alias Flood 02:28, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

There is the British Home Championship which is older - it started in the 1800s. 88.110.197.215 20:37, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

 * The British Home Championship begun in 1884 and was staged until the 1983-84 season. It has not been competed for since then (though there have been talks of re-introducing it in some format) so it is not relevant to this discussion as it is not a "surviving" competition. ♦Tangerines BFC ♦ · Talk 22:18, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

 * The Olympic Football Tournament is the oldest surviving international football competition. In 1908 it featured national teams for the first time. With the exception of the UK, all participating teams entered their full national teams. Matches from this tournament or recognised by both FIFA and the IFFHS as full internationals. It predates the South American Championship by eight years. Djln --Djln (talk) 16:57, 29 October 2009 (UTC)

Flag of Paraguay
The flag of Paraguay is used anachronically all along the article. I tried to fix it, but I don't know why the right flag wouldn't appear after my changes. Please check it out. Regards. Ipsumesse (talk) 10:34, 19 May 2008 (UTC)

Goal scorers
Why there is not a list of overall goal scorers? As they tend to be listed every other championship. For World Cup and European Championship there is also list of ALL scorers. But a list of about 20 to 40 most scored players would be fine, I think. 85.217.38.17 (talk) 03:33, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Still no progress on this. Are these known for all championships? As in the Asian Cup, all scorers are not known in some of the older championships. 85.217.22.47 (talk) 02:17, 4 June 2011 (UTC)

Current champion: Iran?
Uh? Iran didn't play American Cup 2007 and the current champion is Brazil (They won 3-0 vs Argentina). Fix that! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 190.246.185.27 (talk) 13:58, 6 March 2011 (UTC)

Copa América's old name: sources
As I already wrote here, the article contained a mistake about Copa América's old name: the Copa América article here on en.wiki reads ''The tournament was previously known as sup Campeonato Sudamericano de Selecciones (South American Championship of National Teams). South American Championship of Nations was the official English language name''. Now, let's focus on Campeonato Sudamericano de Selecciones: if you take any South American source from the Sudamericano era, it will read "Campeonato Sudamericano de Football". For example, see here, the official Peruvian FA book on the 1927 edition: "Sudamericano de Football". I don't want to bore you linking all the sources, you can take a look at the AFA annual Memorias here (you can also check page numbers here). Additional sources can be found on the online version of the Jornal do Brasil on Google News, on 1926 issues of the Chilean magazine Los Sports, and others (if you want a more detailed list, I can provide other sources). What I think happened was: user JorgeGG writes "de Selecciones" on es.wiki. Everyone copies it, the mistake spreads worldwide. No one probably looked for South American original sources, they took for granted that es.wiki had the right answer, something that, in this case, was not true.

Just to be more specific, here come some sources:

 * AFA, Memoria correspondiente al ejercicio de 1917, Buenos Aires, 1918, p. 9.
 * AFA, Memoria correspondiente al ejercicio de 1919, Buenos Aires, 1920, p. 15.
 * AFA, Memoria correspondiente al ejercicio de 1920, Buenos Aires, 1921, p. 6. (and many other AFA Memorias)
 * FPF, X Campeonato Sud Americano de Football, 1927. (official Peruvian FA document)
 * Los Sports, October 8, 1926, p. 1.
 * La Unión, September 12, 1920, p. 1.
 * Poster for the 1942 edition in Uruguay (I don't know whether I can link it or not, just google it)
 * Post card for the 1919 edition in Brazil (same here)
 * Drawing by Rui Barbosa on the 1916 edition (same here).

And many other newspapers and magazines coming from the same period. All those read Campeonato Sudamericano de Football. I think the most reliable sources are the ones that were published during those competitions. We can not determine the correct name 90 years later, we have to search for the original sources. --Triple 8 (talk) 09:32, 16 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Why was the name reduced? Copa América seems like it includes also North America. --2.245.84.255 (talk) 11:11, 5 July 2015 (UTC)

Weird years
So what exactly is the reason the tournament isn't held strictly every four years, but at a strange, uneven interval? From 1975 to 1987 the tournament was held every four years, but after that, from 1989 to 2001 it was held once every two years. After that there was a three-year interval of 2004 and 2007, until in 2011 it finally returned to once every four years, returning next year in 2015. After that, however, it's in 2016. No clear reasoning behind it in my opinion. KarstenO (talk) 19:40, 8 July 2014 (UTC)

 * 2016 is a special anniversary and features CONCACAF teams as well. Normal Copa will be in 2019.Correctron (talk) 23:38, 25 June 2015 (UTC)
 * The US was banned in 2011 and 2015 so Copa America desided to make it in 2016 so the US could play 65.175.243.206 (talk) 22:58, 12 September 2015 (UTC)

 * Answer - mainly money. The tournament was hosted every 4 years from 1975-1983, held over several months with teams playing home and away agaisnt each other. From 1987 the rights to broadcast the tournament on TV were sold (suprisingly cheaply ;)), and the boradcasters prompted a move to a 2 yearly schedule, with all teams competing in a single tournament in one country: more matches, with a more televisual format. In 1993 guest teams were added (most notably Mexico) to open up new TV markets. The biannual format worked well in South America but didn't fit as well with football globalising, while there was an attempt to make the intenraitonal football calendar sync up a bit more during the early 2000s. This led to a push to a 4-year tournament, scheduled 1 year after a World Cup, before the start of the South American qualifying for the next World Cup. The 3 year gaps between 01-04-07 was basically a transitional arrangement between these schedules. 2016 (if it happens!) is a one-off special, again with eyes on money and specifically US Dollars! Super Nintendo Chalmers (talk) 08:25, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

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Invitees nations record chart does not define abbreviations
The following abbreviations are not defined. QF GS

QF is likely Quarter Final GS is Group <?> to indicate the team did not advance to the quarter final Arm42 (talk) 13:46, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

GS is Group Stage,the team did not advance to the quarter final2602:306:CD9B:E9A0:5560:1889:FD95:84E (talk) 21:28, 13 June 2016 (UTC)ES

How often
I think more discussion on how often this is held is warranted. It appears that it used to be 2, then 3, then 4? All I saw was a comment about it previously being every 2 years. -KaJunl (talk) 01:05, 4 June 2016 (UTC) KaJunl (talk) 01:05, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

Read "Weird Years" above2602:306:CD9B:E9A0:5560:1889:FD95:84E (talk) 21:23, 13 June 2016 (UTC)ES

America's Cup Hall of Fame
Why would people confuse this with the America's Cup Hall of Fame? I realise the America's Cup itself is also Copa America in Spanish, but then the reference still shouldn't be to the Hall of Fame. I'm guessing the Copa America (disambiguation) page should be enough to help confused sailing enthusiast find their way. Any reasons not to remove this reference to the hall of fame? 124.123.207.35 (talk) 12:58, 23 June 2016 (UTC)

Update: there do not seem to be any objections, so I'm removing the reference. 124.123.207.35 (talk) 07:42, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Dates at the start of ‘Beginnings’ subsection
It seems a little confusing to me that the first recorded football match in South America was in 1867, eight years after the first football team in South America was established in 1859. Are these dates correct, and if so, does the (apparent) discrepancy need explaining? JezGrove (talk) 12:33, 27 June 2016 (UTC)
 * It's about the word recorded. There seems to be no older source than for that match, just like a city can be older than it's first mention in history. Also, the first football team was maybe just playing a bit for fun and only for themselves in their free time without any opponent? Or maybe they were just playing cricket or rugby football? It seems that we don't know it because 1859 is a pretty long time ago. I mean they're even older than the english FA and their official foundation of association football. --SamWinchester000 (talk) 02:38, 27 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Quote from their article: "Despite its members played football since its origins, the club's first recorded football match was in 1893." --SamWinchester000 (talk) 02:52, 27 July 2016 (UTC)

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Invitees
I think this section should have it own article. See Spanish version.

--Virkuz-Thunderboldt (talk) 14:58, 18 January 2018

Frequency
The lead section should contain some text on how often the tournament is held. --LukeSurlt c 16:43, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

2015
The Copa América (English: America Cup) or CONMEBOL Copa América, known until 1975 as the South American Football Championship (Campeonato Sudamericano de Fútbol in Spanish and Campeonato Sul-Americana de Futebol in Portuguese),[1] is the top men's football tournament contested among national teams from South America. It is the oldest still-running continental football competition, as well as the third most watched in the world.[2] The competition determines the champions of South America.[2][3][4] Since the 1990s, teams from North America and Asia have also been invited to compete. 5.36.222.74 (talk) 15:50, 16 December 2022 (UTC)

Why didn’t they have simultaneous group kickoffs before?
Did they not think of the Disgrace of Gijon? 142.188.68.174 (talk) 01:02, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

Americas vs South America?
Why does the description of the tournament say it's "contested among national teams from South America?" Competitors obviously come from all over Central America, the Caribbean, and North America.

Is this just a hold-over from the old days? Can it be corrected?

21:45, 3 July 2024 (UTC) Lyn (talk) 21:45, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Copa América


text: Category:Otter Tail County, Minnesota

title: Category:Otter Tail County, Minnesota