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Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Lance6wins

Case Closed on 13 Nov 2004

Please do not edit this page directly if you are not a participant in this case. Comments are very welcome on the Talk page, and will be read, in full. Evidence, no matter who can provide it, is very welcome at /Evidence. Evidence is more useful than comments.

Arbitrators will be working on a proposed decision at /Proposed decision.

Statement of complaint

 * Originally entitled "209.135.35.83 and in the range of 69.138.236.###".

This anon user (209.135.35.83=69.138.236.##=Lance6wins) (thought to be the inactive user user:OneVoice) is a remarkably tenacious pusher of Pro-Israeli/anti-Palestinian POV. Month after month, he (Lance6wins) doggedly insists in inserting the same highly slanted texts in articles such as Daniel Pipes, Benny Morris, Tali Hatuel, Palestinian Authority, Israeli West Bank barrier, Anti-Zionism, Yasser Arafat, and Media coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, among others, causing them to be protected for extended periods. 209.135.35.83 makes minimal effort to engage in dialog on Talk pages, and when he does he rarely signs his posts, preferring the cloak of anonimity.

On July 9, he (Lance6wins) edited various listings on Protected_page concerning articles protected because of edit wars in which he had been involved , an action which was reverted and for which he was reproached by user Texture

On July 22, 209.135.35.83 reverted the article United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East four times, dissing one of our estimable colleagues with the edit summary (Restore Chris73 version....undo Zero(Censor)0000 removal of ambulance photo), and thereby repeatedly trying to circumvent the concensus reached on the Talk page with regard to the inclusing of the controversial photo.

I request disciplinary action against this user (Lance6wins). -- Viajero 14:18, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * This anon (209.135.35.83=69.138.236.##=Lance6wins) displays bizarre behaviour which is a mixture of politeness and pathological obsession. Often puts extremely right-wing viewpoints into articles and then reverts endlessly if anyone tries to remove them. Even after something has been fixed for weeks he is likely to suddenly pop up and revert it again. Quite a large fraction of his edits have been reverted (by a wide variety of users). It has been a tremendous waste of time trying to protect Wikipedia from him. --Zero 14:50, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * I have mentioned this user (209.135.35.83=69.138.236.##=Lance6wins) and some other anonymous IPs who engage in similar behaviour, which I have described, at Requests for mediation/Archive 8. -- Simonides 23:05, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Has now created an account Lance6Wins but the behavior is the same. Something about it feels like an illness rather than pure fanaticism. Recently a good fraction of the little time I have for Wikipedia has been taken up by cleaning up after this guy, and I don't see why I should have to put up with it. Now I blocked 209.135.35.83 and 69.138.236.221 for one month. If members of the committee feel I am overstepping my role as sysop here, please write to me. I request the committee to make this block permanent. -Zero
 * Since hes (Lance6Wins) not on a hard-ban yet, I have unblocked him, asking that he comment here, and adhere to the ID Lance6wins. Since Zero wasnt explicit about where this was filed I have only just now found it. -SV 17:28, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

There are at least two issues: a smaller immediate one an a significantly larger one.

Smaller issue: Zero0000 and Lance6Wins disagree how an incident in Current Events on July 23, 2004 should be reported. As well as a matter in July 19, 2004.

The July 23rd event is detailed in Talk:Current Events. Several newspapers (BBC, NYT, HaAretz, INN) report the event as a 15 year old shot to death by Palestinian when he and members of his family opposed their property being used as a launch site for Qassam rockets at Israeli towns in the Negev. A single news source (APF) has diffenent details: 18 years old, road side bomb and targeting soldiers rather than civilians.

July 19, 2004 Zero0000 has deleted the refenence to David Hatuel, husband of Tali Hatuel. David was given a place of prominence in the Human Chain from the Gaza Strip to the Western Wall.

Larger Issue: Zero0000, recently given admin privs, is abusing those privs to silence Lance6Wins and block any IP address that Lance6Wins uses to connect to wikipedia. Lance6Wins 18:12, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Note that this is a case being made by Viajero against Lance6Wins (initiated when the latter was anon). I intend to support the case as a witness. I protest the action of Fred Bauder in adding my name as a defendant. The Current Events and Tali Hatuel instances brought here by Lance6Wins are trivialities. My blocks of his IPs when he was anon were brought by me to the committee's attention immediately (see above) and it is unconscionable that they be accepted as a the basis of charges. --Zero 08:45, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC) and 07:14, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Note that all three of the "accepts" were added before my name was gratuitously added to the title of this section. Therefore none of them apply to me and I will not accept the role of defendant (Fred Bauder's word) unless the requisite number of "accepts" explicitly name me. --Zero 13:05, 3 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Matter of User:Zero0000
Zero0000 has violated the blocking policy by his actions of blocking Lance6Wins. I submit that this actions violate the Unpopular opinions and Vandalism policies, among others. His behavior constitutes abuse of Admin privileges. I request that appropriate action be taken against Zero0000. This request comes after Jimbo Wales stated on the Wikipedia mailing list (WikiEN-l) on Tue, 21 Sep 2004 05:17:10 -0700

 * It is for the arbcom to be decided, but based on the content of this email, it is clear to me that zero should be desysopped.

This opinion was seconded by "The Cunctator" on Tue, 21 Sep 2004 09:59:59 -0400

 * That's my opinion, as well.

Thank you for considering this matter.

(Please note that for a short period of time I used the new account Abu Ala while I believed the Lance6Wins account was blocked. I was informed afterward by Mirv that RickK has unblocked the Lance6Wins account.) Lance6Wins 14:38, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I object to merging this matter with the on-going Lance6Wins. This case is a simple matter of abuse of privilege. The Lance6Wins case concerns in Zero0000 efforts to limit Wikipedia to reflecting a single point of view to the exclusion of other points of view. The two matters are of a markedly differnt nature. Lance6Wins 17:57, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Just to fill in the details, the statement quoted from Jimbo refers to this email by Zero0000 on WikiEN-L. --Michael Snow 18:33, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

And this one (Tue, 21 Sep 2004 12:19:21 -0700) :
 * Rick wrote:
 * > Jimmy, you need to know the whole history of the case.

 * In order to know if Lance should have been blocked by someone, yes, I would need to know the full history of the case. But we have a cardinal rule, that goes all the way back to the existence of sysop powers in the first place, that they must never be used in a dispute over content that we are personally involved in.

 * If you think we get silly complaints now about sysop abuse, just imagine what it would be like if we let sysops win arguments over content by blocking people who disagree.

 * --Jimbo

"we have a cardinal rule"..."never be used in a dispute over content that we are personally involved in." Clearly sysop is a privilege and a trust. Zero0000 has violated that trust. Lance6Wins 19:51, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Votes and comments by Arbitrators

 * 1) Accept, should be merged with Requests for arbitration/Lance6wins Fred Bauder 15:47, Sep 21, 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Accept as merged with Lance6wins case. James F. (talk) 17:14, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Accept as merged --the Epopt 20:14, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) Accept as merged Jwrosenzweig 21:47, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) Ditto. Martin 14:21, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Statement by affected party
Ed Poor, among others, has asserted that the primary for Wikipedia to achieve a NPOV is to provide all mainstream POVs regarding an issue. This policy is explicitly reject by the deletion of POV material that a small minority of individuals at Wikipedia. These individuals include Zero0000, Viajero and others. The two cited are, to my experience, the most energetic at deleting material that does not fit their POV.

There are numerous examples involving myself and others. I will cite several of them here. I have spent a considerable period of time looking into the articles and the individuals that Viajero and Zero0000 mention: OneVoice and 209.133.35.83. While I can not speak for them, I can show some of what has happened regarding those individuals. Material appears on most recent to oldest order.

Zero0000 claims that this issue is between Viajero and Lance6Wins, yet an examination of the history of the pages mentioned: Daniel Pipes, Benny Morris, Tali Hatuel, Palestinian Authority, Israeli West Bank barrier, Anti-Zionism, Yasser Arafat, and Media coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict reveals that Zero000o is one of if not the primary indiviual who has engaged in repeated reverts with OneVoice, 209.135.35.83 and now Lance6Wins.

Please see the evidence page:

Arbitrators' opinions on hearing this matter

 * Accept Fred Bauder 12:39, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * Accept. James F. (talk) 13:28, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Accept complaints of both sides. Martin 22:14, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Accept - mav 10:01, 8 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Principles

 * Wikipedia editors are expected to be courteous and respectful towards other editors, especially those they may have a dispute with, see Wikiquette which specifially admonishes editors to "Recognize your own biases and keep them in check."
 * Accepted 7-0'

 * Although negotiation is not explicitly mentioned in dispute resolution, it is contemplated under the initial steps of Wikipedia's dispute resolution policies under language which suggests users who are in conflict talk to one another on their respective talk pages and on the talk page of any article in dispute.
 * Accepted 7-0'

 * Wikipedia is not a vehicle for political advocacy or propaganda, see What Wikipedia is not which states that Wikipedia articles are not to used for "Propaganda or advocacy of any kind".
 * Accepted 7-0'

 * Administrators are Wikipedia users who on the basis of trustworthiness have been granted the power to execute certain commands which ordinary users can not execute. This includes the power to block and unblock other users or IP addresses provided that Blocking policy is followed.
 * Accepted 7-0'

 * Wikipedia articles are edited from a Neutral point of view which contemplates that all significant viewpoints regarding a matter shall be appropriately represented. Where necessary, contributors must be willing to "write for the enemy".
 * Accepted 7-0'

 * Sysop powers must not be used to win a dispute about content.
 * Accepted 7-0'

Findings of Fact

 * Lance6wins in his edits to articles which concern the Israeli-Palestinian conflict takes a partisan perspective somewhat similar to that taken by the commentator Daniel Pipes.
 * Accepted 7-0'

 * User Zero0000, frustrated by the inaction of the Arbitration Committee with respect to the editing of user Lance6wins while engaged in an editing dispute with Lance6wins improperly threatened him and blocked him.
 * Accepted 6-0

Remedies

 * Lance6wins is banned from editing Wikipedia articles which concern the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
 * Accepted 7-0

 * In the event Lance6wins is unable or unwilling to conform to the requirements in the arbitration rulings above, upon motion by any user to the Arbitration Committee and presentation of proof of such failure Lance6wins shall be restricted from editing articles which concern the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for a term to be decided at that point.
 * ''Accepted 5-2

 * User Zero000 will have administrator privileges suspended for two weeks. Following that time, Zero000 will be on probation for a period of two months: during that time, if Zero000 takes any action which a majority of the active arbitrators consider an abuse of admin privileges, Zero000 will be desysopped. If Zero000 is desysopped as a result of this case, the Arbitration Committee reserves to itself the right to impose a time period during which Zero000 will be ineligible for renomination for adminship, if it is deemed necessary.
 * Accepted 5-2

Enforcement

 * Any edit by Lance6wins to any article related to the Palestinian-Israeli confict may be reverted by any editor.
 * ''Accepted 7-0

 * Any Wikipedia administrator may ban Lance6wins from Wikipedia for a short period (a day or up to a week for repeat offenses) if it is discovered that he has edited articles which relate to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.
 * Accepted 6-0

Post-ruling commentary
There has been some concern that we ruled against Lance6wins because of his personal opinions. This is absolutely not the case. I reproduce one of the key findings of fact in this case. While it narrowly failed to pass, it may help to clarify the motives behind the remedies above. Martin 17:02, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * 5) User:Lance6wins is unable to conform his editing to the requirements of the Neutral point of view policy with respect to articles which concern the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, see and the page history and talk page of Refusal to serve in the Israeli military. Note especially the repeated insertion of the header, "Resulting increase in suicide bombing".

Failed to pass with four votes in favour, nil against, and two absentions (required five votes to pass)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Lance6wins/Evidence

Anyone, whether directly involved or not, may add evidence to this page. Please choose an appropriate header for your evidence and sign your comments with your name.

This page is not for general discussion - for that, see talk page.

If you disagree with some evidence you see here, please provide counter-evidence, or an explanation of why the evidence is misleading. Please do this under a seperate header, to separate your response from the original evidence.

Be aware that the arbitrators may at times rework this page to try to make it more coherent.

Evidence against Lance6Wins according to Zero
This case was brought to the Arbitration Committee by Viajero, who is apparently away until the end of August. The following brief summary was prepared by Zero. Note that a comprehensive list would be at least twice as long and require an exhorbitant amount of time to compile.

Timeline for this person: OneVoice: Dec 2003 to Feb 2004 209.135.35.83 and 69.138.236.221: Jan 2004 to the present Lance6Wins: 26 July 2004 to the present In the following we have used the abbreviation "L6W".

Despite his long time on Wikipedia, this user has not learned the basics of NPOV and continues to insert blatantly propagandistic material. In fact, it is clear that L6W regards himself as being on a mission to see that Wikipedia reflects his own political viewpoint. Almost all his edits are to that end. As to what his viewpoint is, one might call it "pro-Israeli" but it is in fact well to the right of the average opinion of the Israeli public. It is hard to find any non-trivial edits that he has made that do not serve this purpose.

L6W's style is particularly infuriating and wasteful of other peoples' time. Usually he inserts some highly POV material, then when someone else edits or removes it, he reverts. Even if the material is disproven immediately on the talk page, he often keeps reverting stubbornly without regard to what has been said.

Random examples:
 * Proposals for a Palestinian state Supposed "impediment for a Palestinian state": Insistence by the Palestinians of unrestricted access across the border to Israeli hospitals, schools, universities, seaports, airports, and employment.  (In fact no such insistence was ever made by any Palestinian negotiator, it is entirely invention.)
 * Proposals for a Palestinian state Continued deleting the geographic location of the West Bank aquifer since it is uncomfortable to him.  He didn't question the facts, just deleted incessantly.
 * Elon Peace Plan (A plan of the Israeli right-wing for expelling Arabs from the West Bank to enable an Israeli annexation without losing a Jewish majority.  This is L6W's personal position.)  L6W incessantly copied material directly from the official web site and would not allow any other material.
 * Population transfer This page was essentially taken over by L6W for several months in order to prove that population transfers work. (See the previous item for motivation.)
 * Daniel Pipes Repeatedly added scads of adulation from Pipes' own web page using such NPOV language as "unaware and unsuspecting global public".
 * Palestinian Authority - where to start?
 * Benny Morris Added his own commentary plus a bizarre reference to an entirely different person then endless reverted to them.
 * International Solidarity Movement Repeatedly added or re-added a quote attributed to an entirely different organization.
 * Islam Insisted on inserting nonsense about honor killing; see section of Talk:Islam headed "WikiMoron Insists on Bringing Up "Honor Killing".
 * Noam Chomsky Kept inserting quotations chosen out of context in an attempt to prove some point they did not prove.

Examples of distortions of sources:
 * Bethlehem: Claiming to be using "direct quotes": Most famously, the Church of the Nativity was used as a refugee by Palestinian gunmen. Over 100 gunmen remained in the Church till negotitions resulted in their removal from the Church and its compound at which time the Israel Defense Forces were asked to come into the site and remove 40 explosive devices set by the gunmen.  In fact CNN didn't say they were all gunmen, nor that the "explosive devices" were "set".  (They weren't and they weren't.)  This could be interpretted as sloppiness except that L6W's "errors" are always in the same direction.  This cost A LOT of time to correct.
 * Palestinian refugee: Claiming to be quoting a book of Morris: Of these 750,000 refugees, 12% or 90,000 refugees resettled within Israel by 1953. In fact, Morris wrote "30,000-90,000".  See the tantrum he threw on the talk page when I caught him.
 * Talk:History of Palestine: History of Palestine A book of Morris (Israel's Border Wars, p29) has the following: "Some Israeli officials, trying to explain the persistence of the infiltration phenomenon during the 1950s, linked it to the bedouin life-style and to the urbanization and pauperization that had drawn or pushed thousands of rural Arabs to Palestine's burgeoning towns during Ottoman and British Mandate rule. Perhaps as many as 200,000 Arabs had moved, between 1930 and 1945, from the desert to the prospering coastal areas of Palestine and Lebanon. Israel's relative prosperity continued to exert a magnetic power. (para) But the majority of observers looked to more specific and recent causes. ..."  On the basis of this, L6W made the following insertion: Significant immigration to the area occurred before 1948, Jews from Europe and approximately 200,000 Arabs from the desert which comprised 12% of the Arab population.   Note the following distortions: (1) "Palestine and Lebanon" became just "Palestine"; (2) "perhaps as many as 200,000" became "approximately 200,000"; (3) "from the desert to the prospering coastal areas" became "to the area [that is, to Palestine]...from the desert", ignoring the fact that a large part of the desert is inside Palestine; (4) Morris does not accept this 1950s theory, as can be seen from the last sentence quoted above and the fact that he never returns to it in his book.  He is just mentioning an unusual claim in passing.
 * United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East: An UNRWA document said "an incident in which an ambulance drivers life was threatened by armed men who demanded that he transport them, along with their wounded comrade, to hospital". L6W's report of this (reverted endlessly) was "UNRWA admitted that its ambulances are used to transport "armed fighters" against UNRWA policy".
 * Oslo Accords: Made the claim "the May 2004 survey found that 80% of all Israelis hold that the Israel Defense Forces have succeeded in dealing with the Al-Aqsa Intifada militarily." citing a Hebrew document . However, no such statistic appears in the document.  To see this is so without needing to read Hebrew, see the English summary of the document at.
 * Refusal to serve in the Israeli military He repeatedly inserted a claim that Hamas had increased attacks due to a letter written by some Israeli reserve pilots.  He claimed this appeared in a new book by two journalists.  However, rather than being information from a book, it is a translation by a pirate radio station well known for its distortions (Arutz Sheva, see below) of an ephemeral TV interview.  This is willful  deception.

Other examples of anti-social behavior:
 * Thomas Hurndall He quoted INN (see below) as saying that the soldier who shot Hurndall had been found guilty. This was obviously impossible because it was only the same day as he had been charged and countless real news agencies reported the story correctly.  An enormous effort was required before he desisted.
 * Refusal to serve in the Israeli military He quoted INN (see below) that some general had said refusal decreased by 80% when only the number of convictions had decreased by 80%. All other news agencies which reported it did so correctly.  Not even detailed recitation of the general's statement was sufficient to make him desist in reverting to his version.  In response to L6W's reply on this page (below), note that he is just quoting INN again.  Decent news sources such as Haaretz quoted Regev directly and gave the actual numbers from which the 80% can be computed.  Those numbers are in the article.
 * Israeli West Bank barrier There was a long debate about whether the picture should show a wall or a fence (both exist in reality). This was amicably resolved by agreeing to show both.  OnceVoice then added just the fence picture with the false claim (edit summary) that it was what had been decided.
 * Tali Hatuel He inserted claim from INN (see below) that the killing had been filmed. When the veracity of this claim (made uniquely by INN) was questioned he started to insert other claims about the filming of other killings and claiming those as proof of this one.  Afaik, he has not given up on this one.
 * Peace Now See the battle with Woggly, where L6W kept making a claim that required 1983 to be before 1969.
 * Amin al-Husayni He endlessly deleted the NPOV dispute tag despite the fact that the article was obviously in dispute and its talk page gave many examles of factual dispute. This was the first time that I blocked him.  At this point he was using anon IPs only.  Early June, 2004.

Note: INN is a euphemism for "Arutz Sheva", a pirate radio station run by right-wing Israelis that broadcasts into Israel from a ship because they are banned from broadcasting on land. More information on Arutz Sheva is in this mail message. Arutz Sheva is famous for the unreliability of its reports.

L6W's purpose is seen most clearly by the great effort he has put into the inherently-POV pages like Terrorism against Israel in 2001 (and similarly for other years) and Partial list of Palestinian terrorist acts. These are like a pet project for him. As I wrote above, NPOV is the very last objective that L6W has in mind. An attempt by a few people to balance these lists by changing the name, for example to Violence in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict 2004, has failed because L6W and one or two others (notably MathKnight) have a single-mindedness of purpose that is not matched by any pro-Palestinian contributors. The committee might like to try finding a single insertion of L6W in these pages that shows Israel in a bad light. L6W simply does not consider that the NPOV rule applies to him.

Personal statement of Zero: Since Dec 2003, approximately 30% of my editing time in Wikipedia has been spent repairing the damage done by L6W. Something must be done about it. --Zero 05:23, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Zero responds to Current Events July 23
Brief reply from Zero: Haaretz revises stories during the day using the same URL. In this case the retraction of the first version of the story appeared as a paragraph on http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/455715.html. Later that day, that paragraph disappeared. This has been explained repeatedly, but L6W appears unwilling or incapable of understanding. The committee should compare the importance of the issue (whether it was a rocket or a bomb) to the vast amount that L6W has written on it, in the Talk page, on the mailing list, and now here. This is a good example of what it is like with L6W around. I think he has some obsessive disorder. --Zero 00:03, 14 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Regarding 209.135.35.83
I'd also like to point the AC to his contributions as 209.135.35.83 (particularly the spree on 22 July), which is what got me involved here. After a couple of weeks spent mediating consensus between diametrically opposed parties on United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East, agreement had finally been reached, and the article had been unprotected. Along came L6W, and began reverting the article to a previous, disputed version. Repeated attempts to dialog with him failed, and he simply kept reverting. Finally, the article was reprotected. Being unable to edit the UNRWA article, he then moved on, attempting to restart edit wars on Tali Hatuel, Daniel Pipes, Benny Morris and Peace Now - all in the space of about fifteen minutes. Finally, he was blocked. I have seen little in his behaviour since to convince me that he has changed his stripes. Ambi 07:12, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Regarding Tali Hatuel
I can't speak for the rest, but look at Tali Hatuel. No one denies that the Palestinian groups have filmed attacks before, but no one suggests they filmed the murder of Hatuel and her family. L6W makes the inclination that this was the case, by slipping in this otherwise-irrelevant factoid. I happen to agree with much of his opinions (and disagree with much of Zero's), but this is another example of L6W's less-than-neutral editing. Ambi 21:42, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Zero0000 and Current Events of July 23
'''Zero please confine your edits to your statments. As you have stated in the past, please do not intermix comments. You can place your responses in a section entitled responses. I have done that for you with your response regarding Current Events July 23. Thank you.'''

Current Events July 23
On July 23, a teenage Arab was killed by gunfire in Beit Hanoun, a built up area in the Northern section of the Gaza Strip. The incident was reported in multiple news sources, including (NYT), (BBC), (INN), [(HaAretz), (AFP). The event was first reported in Current Events as follows:

 * Palestinian terrorists of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades an armed branch of Yasser Arafat's Fatah organization, murder Hassan Al- Za'nin, 15 years old, and shoot several members of his family, when the family refuses to allow the terrorists to use their property as a Qassam rocket launch site. (NYT)

Using the common definition of murder as listed in wikipedia...to kill without legal sanction.

Zero0000 changed to report to read:

 * An 18-year-old Palestinian boy, Hassan Zaanin, is shot dead in Beit Hanoun in the Gaza Strip when he and his familiy attempt to stop Palestinian gunmen from planting an anti-tank explosive outside their house. (Haaretz)

Zero0000 claims that his HaAretz citation is a correction of the earlier story and that the URLs are identical. He complains of HaAretz using one URL for multiple reports in Talk:Current Events:

 * Later in the day the Haaretz article was replaced by another at the same URL (they do that often, I sure wish they wouldn't) and the earlier incident was missing entirely.

Yet you can compare the two URLs and see that they are clearly different:
 * Zero0000's: http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/455715.html
 * earlier:   http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/455377.html (HaAretz) see section towards bottom of report entitled: PA teen killed by Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades

(In all fairness to Zero0000 the Gulf Daily reported the story closer to the version of events that Zero0000 prefers.

Examining these news sources (NYT, BBC, AFP, INN, HaAretz),

 * All agree that the child was killed and a number of his family members wounded.
 * 3 of 5 report 15 or 16 years old....only AFP says 18 (BBC says teenager which includes both 15 and 16)
 * 3 of 5 report the shooters as members of al-Aqsa, the others say militants, which include al-Aqsa
 * 3 of 5 report a missile or Qassan rocket (which target civilians in southern Israel). NYT does not state. APF says road-side bomb (which target soldiers in the Gaza Strip)

The HaAretz article that Zero0000 prefers does not even mention the boy being killed. It is dated 26 July and covers more recent events.

A more recent verision of the report in Current Events runs as follows:
 * Palestinian terrorists of the Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades an armed branch of Yasser Arafat's Fatah organization, murder 16-year-old Palestinian Hassan Al-Za'nin and shoot several members of his family, when the family refuses to allow the terrorists to use the Al-Za'nin property as a Qassam rocket launch site. (INN) (NYT) (HaAretz)(BBC)

After repeated deletions/reversion by Zero0000 the report now reads:

 * An 18-year-old Palestinian, Hassan Zaanin, is shot dead in Beit Hanoun in the Gaza Strip when he and his familiy attempt to stop Palestinian gunmen from planting an anti-tank explosive outside their house. (Haaretz) (BBC)

Zero0000 has characterized reporting this incident and others as "Arab-bashing" (See section of Talk:Current Events entitled: "23 July story about Beit Hanun death" and "Non "Arab Bashing" News (Zero0000's term)". Whether or not it is Arab bashing depends upon your point of view. A family refuses to allow people to use their property as a site for launching attacks (by a preponderance of the news reports) using rockets or missiles.  The attackers kill and wound numerous members of the family.  The family is to be commmended that they sought to prevent the lawlessness from occuring on their property.

Herein lies the difference of attitude. Zero0000 excises, with the help of Viajero, items that are critical of or might reflect poorly upon Arabs or Islam. Similar behaviour can be seen on the Palestinian Authority page, where Zero0000 has repeated removed documented items under the headings: "Failure to Protect Holy Sites", "Failure to suppress lawlessness" and "Descent into Chaos".

Response to Zero's counter-claim regarding Current Events July 23
Zero writes above: "Haaretz revises stories during the day using the same URL. In this case the retraction of the first version of the story appeared as a paragraph on http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/455715.html. Later that day, that paragraph disappeared."

The paragraph is indeed missing from the artcile that Zero cites. Clearly, this is a retraction of the "the retraction of the first version"...which is in turn a confirmation of the first version of the article.

United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East
UNRWA ambulances are used by armed Arab as transport during gunfights with Israeli soldiers. A prominent example occurred during Operation Rainbow in which a Reuters personnel filmed the practice. It was alleged that the ambulances were used to remove bodily remains of Israeli soldiers as well. Peter Hansen, Director-General of UNRWA denies that the ambulances were used to transport body parts of Israeli soldiers. . Peter Hansen further states that it issued a statement on May 13, 2004 demanding that the neutrality of its ambulances be respected in response to an incident in which armed men demanded transport from an ambulance driver. UNRWA policy forbids the transport of armed men in its ambulances, but does not demand its drivers enforce the policy if it means placing their lives at risk.

Summary: film evidence of ambulances being used as transport for armed men, denial of transport of body parts, demand that neutrality of ambulances be respected (not used as transport armed men); statement of policy forbidding use of ambulances as transport for armed men; statement that the policy need not be enforced under threat of "lives at risk".

Clearly the UNRWA ambulances were used as transport for armed men and Peter Hansen is stating this is against policy, but there is nothing that can be done about it when the armed men threaten the lives of the drivers.

Tali Hatuel
The dispute revolves around the filming of the attack as reported:

 * The terrorists videotaped the children as they bled to death. This has become a common practice of Palestinian terrorist groups. The New York Times has reported the practice of filming attacks on Israelis on both 12 May and 13 May, 2004 "The militant Islamic group Hamas claimed responsibility for the shooting and said they would release footage of the attack." New York Times and "Hamas said in a statement...it had film of the attack..."Reuters

Zero denies the above reports by the New York Times and Reuters.

He has deleted the following quotation and citation from the article:

 * The individuals, "including terrified toddlers, pinned to the ground for 20 minutes"..

Following this, Viajero protected Zero's version of the article (New York Times and Reuters citations deleted) on 20 May 2004.

Zero repeated his practice of deleting the above New York Times and Reuters citations. Once again Viajero protected the Zero's version of the article on 9 June 2004.

Regarding the filming of Tali Hatuel's murder
Ambi states that no one claims the murder was filmed. This is not correct. There were citations in the articles that this particular murder was filmed. Zero has removed those citations. Fortunately he does not appear to have the authority to edit the history of the article, and so those citations remain available in previous versions.

Refusal to serve in the Israeli military
Zero claims that "the conviction rate" decreased by 80%.

He IDF Chief of Personnel disagrees with Zero, stating explicitly: "80% decline in the number of draft dodgers and insubordinates". Nothing there about convictions.

 * IDF Chief of Personnel Major-General Gil Regev set the record straight. According to Regev, in 2003, there was an 80% decline in the number of draft dodgers and insubordinates among soldiers and officers.

 * Regev confirmed that during the past three years, coinciding with the Oslo War, there has been an increase in “political” insubordination but the overall numbers indicate a reduction in the number of soldiers and officers refusing to be inducted into the military or serve in the reserves.

Zero, Viajero and OneVoice participated in an repeated edit/revert process over this information in February of 2004.

Refusal to serve in the Israeli military (new issue)
Two Israeli journalists, Amos Harel of Haaretz and a person from the Israel Broadcasting Agency, have written a book in Hebrew entitled (in translation) "The Seventh War". The book is based upon extensive interview with Hamas leaders and others. In the book the authors state that

 * It was the Israeli left and your peace camp that ultimately encouraged us to continue with our suicide attacks.

 * We tried, through our attacks, to create fragmentation and dissention within Israeli society, and the left-wing's reaction was proof that this was indeed the right approach. When we heard about the 'Pilots' Letter' [written and publicized last year by 27 Israel Air Force pilots who refused to take part in bombing missions against terrorist leaders in Arab towns], and the elite soldiers who refused to serve [in Judea, Samaria and Gaza], it strengthened those in our camp who promoted the idea of suicide bombers...

Zero0000 has remove this twice, his only comment is shown below. 11:36, 13 Sep 2004 Zero0000 (rv. the next time you post Arutz Sheva crap I will block you.)

Followup September 20th 2004
Zero0000 has blocked Lance6Wins from Wikipedia. Blocking policy is defined. It specifically states that unpopular opinions are not to be blocked.
 * ===Unpopular opinions===

 * Blocking may not be used to prevent a user from posting unpopular opinions. A content dispute between users should be settled on the article's talk page or on their own user talk pages. If it cannot be resolved that way, there is a clearly defined dispute resolution procedure to resolve contentious issues. See Dispute resolution for more.

Blocks such as those constitute Administrators Abu Ala 20:14, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Daniel Pipes
Zero has repeated deleted that Pipes has been published in Foreign Affairs. He has also repeated deleted the following information:

 * === September 11, 2001 ===

Four months before the attack on the twin towers, Pipes and Steven Emerson wrote in The Wall Street Journal that Al Qaeda was "planning new attacks on the US"; and that Iranian operatives "helped arrange advanced ... training for Al Qaeda personnel in Lebanon where they learned, for example, how to destroy large buildings."
 * The Boston Globe wrote that "If Pipes's admonitions had been heeded, there might never have been a 9/11." It was precisely after Sept. 11, 2001, that Pipes came fully into his own, explaining to a confused and deeply concerned country just who its enemy is and why. Insight on the News 15 April 2002.

The Boston Globe report was written by by Jeffrey Jacoby on 22 June 2003.

Zero prefers to enter this type of material into the article:

 * CAIR charges that Pipes is an anti-Islamic bigot, while Pipes in turn maintains that CAIR is an apologist for Islamic terrorist groups like Hezbollah and Hamas. Links to CAIR's charges and Pipes' response to them are given below.

 * Campus Watch was immediately labeled a "McCarthyist blacklist"; and similar epithets, not only by the listed academics but by more than 100 others who demanded to be listed as well.

Neither statement contains any attribution.

Once again Zero's participated in an edit/revert sequence. Viajero then protected Zero's version of the article.

Peace Now
Zero0000 says "See the battle with Woggly, where L6W kept making a claim that required 1983 to be before 1969."

Perhaps this refers to the "Song of Peace" which was written in 1969 and adopted by Peace Now as its anthem, some time after 1983. Evidently, Zero0000, believes that an anthem must be written after the orgranization is founded, that adopting a pre-existing song as an anthem is not possible.

However, the real item of disagreement concerns the decline in support for Peace Now among the Israeli populace and the association of Peace Now with those that would demonize a significant section of Israeli society. That criticism of Peace Now has been incorporated into the page by others. (Woggly and MathKnight. Woggly is the person cited in the Zero0000 quote above.) The paragraphs are:

 * The movement (Peace Now) has been criticized for lacking realism given the absence of a corresponding movement on the Arab side of the conflict.

 * Ami Ayalon, former head of the Shin Bet and co-initiator of the National Census peace proposal (with professor Sari Nusseibeh), has criticized Peace Now for demonizing the Jewish settlers, thus encouraging hate towards settlers, and providing the general public reasons to dislike the peace camp.

 * Ayalon scorns Peace Now for failing to rally the masses in support of the Israeli Peace movement, although surveys indicate that the Israeli public supports a separation from the Palestinians and a peaceful solution. Ayalon explain that this because Peace Now and the left wing have shown alienation and a patronising attitude towards the general Israeli public, and that this attitude combined with increased terrorist activity over the past four years are to blame for Peace Now's current poor standing within the Israeli public, which feels the peace camp is not commited (enough) to stop Palestinian terrorism and protect Israel's interests.

 * Ayalon concluded that many settlements should indeed be disbanded, but the transfered settlers should be embraced and receive support - both financial and moral - from the state and the public, and not being treated as enemies.

More to come
This is all that I have time for at the moment. Lance6Wins 17:50, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Quote from Lance6Wins
In a message to Mirv, Lance6Wins said "I do try, attempt, or intend to misinform." . I call this to the attention of the Arbitration Committee because the statement seems at least somewhat relevant to the questions here. I will not attempt to interpret whether this is a deliberate statement of purpose, a Freudian slip, or if the author mistakenly omitted a negation (such as "I do not..."). --Michael Snow 22:08, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Edits by User:209.135.35.83 on July 9, 2004 to Protected page

 * 13:37
 * 13:39
 * 13:44
 * 13:56

Material added to Refusal to serve in the Israeli military by Lance6wins
This is the controverted edit which resulted in the blocking of Lance6win by Zero000:. Other sources for the underlying material include Jewish Tribune, September 16, 2004, Blog danielpipes.org September 10, 2004 - An interview by Avi Yisacharov of Voice of Israel Radio on Channel One Television (Israel) is cited, the book itself, The Seventh War is "forthcoming" - Zionist Organization of America September 10, 2004 - Date of the television interview was September 9, 2004 - Blog Ongoing Jewish Commentary, and the source Lance6win used: Arutz Shiva, September 12, 2004.

Blocking by Zero000

 * Like you read it, yeah. The next I see you posting crap from Arutz Sheva, I will block you. That's a promise. --Zero 11:37, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The book, The Seventh War is apparently in Hebrew and may not be published even now. The material is from a television interview. Fred Bauder 14:24, Sep 22, 2004 (UTC)

The original edit by 209.135.35.83 states that the added material is from the book itself and does not mention the television interview. 209.135.35.83's next edit replaced ==Arab reactions== with ==Resulting increase in terrorism==


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Lance6wins/Proposed decision

all proposed

Arbitrators should vote for or against each point or vote to abstain.
 * Only items that receive a majority yay vote will be enacted.
 * Items that receive a majority nay vote will be formally rejected.
 * Items that do not receive a majority yay or nay vote will be open to possible amendment by any arbitrator if he so chooses. After the amendment process is complete, the item will be voted on one last time.
 * Items that receive a majority abstentions will need to go through an amendment process and be re-voted on once.

Conditional votes for, against, or to abstain should be explained by the arbitrator in parenthesis after his time-stamped signature. For example, an arbitrator can state that he would only favor a particular remedy based on whether or not another remedy/remedies were enacted.

Proposed temporary orders
1) {text of proposed orders}

 * Yay:

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:

Proposed principles
proposed wording to be modified by Arbitrators and then voted on

1) Wikipedia editors are expected to be courteous and respectful towards other editors, especially those they may have a dispute with, see Wikiquette which specifially admonishes editors to "Recognize your own biases and keep them in check."

 * Aye:
 * James F. (talk) 11:54, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Fred Bauder 12:14, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 15:09, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Jwrosenzweig 21:07, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:

2) Although negotiation is not explicitly mentioned in dispute resolution, it is contemplated under the initial steps of Wikipedia's dispute resolution policies under language which suggests users who are in conflict talk to one another on their respective talk pages and on the talk page of any article in dispute.

 * Aye:
 * James F. (talk) 11:54, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Fred Bauder 12:14, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 15:09, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Jwrosenzweig 21:07, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:47, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC) - although this does not mean that users should always be forced to negotiate. As I have said in previous cases, this would be an open invitation to crackpots and POV pushers.

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:

3) Wikipedia is not a vehicle for political advocacy or propaganda, see What Wikipedia is not which states that Wikipedia articles are not to used for "Propaganda or advocacy of any kind".

 * Aye:
 * James F. (talk) 11:54, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Fred Bauder 12:14, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 15:09, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Jwrosenzweig 21:07, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:

4) Administrators are Wikipedia users who on the basis of trustworthiness have been granted the power to execute certain commands which ordinary users can not execute. This includes the power to block and unblock other users or IP addresses provided that Blocking policy is followed.

 * Aye:
 * James F. (talk) 11:54, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Fred Bauder 12:14, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 15:09, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Jwrosenzweig 21:07, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:

5) Wikipedia articles are edited from a Neutral point of view which contemplates that all significant viewpoints regarding a matter shall be appropriately represented. Where necessary, contributors must be willing to "write for the enemy".

 * Aye:
 * Fred Bauder 12:14, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 13:38, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 15:09, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC) (pref. with italicised addition, also without)
 * Jwrosenzweig 21:07, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC) (I support both, but recognize the wisdom in Martin's addition.)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:

6) Sysop powers must not be used to win a dispute about content.

 * Aye:
 * Martin 15:09, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Fred Bauder 17:40, Sep 25, 2004 (UTC)
 * Jwrosenzweig 21:07, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC) (Amen.)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 12:17, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:

Characterization of Lance6wins' viewpoint
1) Lance6wins in his edits to articles which concern the Israeli-Palestinian conflict takes a partisan perspective somewhat similar to that taken by the commentator Daniel Pipes.

 * Yay:
 * Fred Bauder 11:43, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 11:55, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 15:09, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Jwrosenzweig 19:46, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:

Significance of Lance6wins' viewpoint
2) The perspective which Lance6wins takes in his edits to articles which concern the Israeli-Palestinian conflict represent a significant, though minority, viewpoint which should be included in the articles provided it is adequately identified and proportionate.

 * Aye:
 * Fred Bauder 11:43, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 15:09, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC) (pref. with italicised addition)
 * Jwrosenzweig 19:46, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC) (I like the addition fine, also.)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:
 * "Significant"? Not so sure. James F. (talk) 11:55, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * This is a content question and thus outside of our jurisdiction. mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC) - Agree with Mav

Uncertainly regarding the ability of Lance6wins to adequately attribute his viewpoints
3) It is uncertain whether Lance6wins is able to conform in his edits to articles which concern the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to the requirement that viewpoints presented be adequately attributed, see

 * Aye:
 * Fred Bauder 11:43, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 11:55, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:
 * He is unable or unwilling to deal with this adequately. Fred Bauder 15:09, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC) - Agree with Fred

 * Abstain:
 * Martin 15:09, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC) Not needed, and I can't read minds. :-/
 * Jwrosenzweig 19:46, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC) (I can't read minds either. I would agree that he hasn't yet conformed, but I don't know if that needs explicit mention.)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 12:19, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

User Zero0000 theatened and blocked Lance6wins
4) User Zero0000, frustrated by the inaction of the Arbitration Committee with respect to the editing of user Lance6wins while engaged in an editing dispute with Lance6wins improperly threatened him and blocked him.

 * Aye:
 * Fred Bauder 11:43, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 11:55, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 15:09, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Jwrosenzweig 19:46, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * (we have some fault here) mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:

Inablility of Lance6wins to follow the requirements of NPOV with respect to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict
5) User:Lance6wins is unable to conform his editing to the requirements of the Neutral point of view policy with respect to articles which concern the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, see and the page history and talk page of Refusal to serve in the Israeli military. Note especially the repeated insertion of the header, "Resulting increase in suicide bombing".

 * Aye:
 * Fred Bauder 15:09, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 18:56, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 12:19, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Proposed remedies
1) User Zero00 is suspended as a Wikipedia administrator for one week

 * Aye:
 * Fred Bauder 12:01, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 15:09, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC) (prefer this to 1.5)
 * James F. (talk) 12:21, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC) (Or the below)

 * Nay:
 * Jwrosenzweig 22:33, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC) I don't think these consequences are stern enough....I will consider an alternative and post it soon, or else modify my vote. Moving from abstain to Nay because of my preference for 1.5.
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * (a warning is needed) mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC) - Agree with Mav

 * Abstain:

1.5) User Zero000 will have administrator privileges suspended for two weeks. Following that time, Zero000 will be on probation for a period of two months: during that time, if Zero000 takes any action which a majority of the active arbitrators consider an abuse of admin privileges, Zero000 will be desysopped. If Zero000 is desysopped as a result of this case, the Arbitration Committee reserves to itself the right to impose a time period during which Zero000 will be ineligible for renomination for adminship, if it is deemed necessary.

 * Aye:
 * Jwrosenzweig 21:15, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC) (How's this? Too harsh?  If so, can we find a middle ground between this and 1?)
 * Fred Bauder 11:50, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 12:21, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 18:54, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC) (However, I prefer 1.0)

 * Nay:
 * (a warning is needed along with probation; Zero seems to have good intentions and mis-understood the blocking policy) mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC) - Agree with Mav

 * Abstain:

2) Edits by user Lance6wins of articles which concern the Israeli-Palestinian conflict shall in some appropriate way identify the perspective taken either by explicitly stating it in understandable terms or by citing the source of the opinion or information in such a way that the perspective is identifiable.

 * Aye:
 * Fred Bauder 12:01, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:
 * Martin 15:09, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC) I think this is too vague to be workable.
 * Remedy is inadequate to deal with the problem of POV editing Lance6wins presents. Fred Bauder 15:14, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 12:21, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Abstain:
 * Jwrosenzweig 22:33, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC) I don't think the complaint against Lance is that he doesn't source, but rather that he allegedly uses extremely biased sources. I don't know if this addresses that issue, nor do I know if the issue can be effectively addressed by the AC.

3) Lance6wins is forbidden from editing Wikipedia using sources that are biased in favour of the viewpoints he has historically promoted on Wikipedia, which might be characterised as "pro-settler" and "Israeli right wing". This includes the pirate radio station INN/"Arutz Sheva". Other Wikipedians are encouraged to be cautious against over-reliance on such sources.

 * Aye:
 * Martin 15:09, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:
 * That perspective is significant knowledge. He is one of the editors familiar with it. Fred Bauder 17:40, Sep 25, 2004 (UTC)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 12:21, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Abstain:
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

3.5) Lance6wins is banned from editing Wikipedia articles which concern the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

 * Aye:
 * Fred Bauder 15:11, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * Jwrosenzweig 21:19, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC) I prefer this to 3 simply because I think we go too far in characterizing the source evidence in 3. There are many legitimate uses to which even extremely biased sources can be put. Lance's problem isn't purely with sources, but with an inability to see beyond his sources' biases, or at least an inability to write as though he can.
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 12:21, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 18:54, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:

Enforcement
1) In the event Lance6wins is unable or unwilling to conform to the requirement that his edits of articles which concern the Israeli-Palestinian conflict shall in some appropriate way identify the perspective taken either by explicitly stating it in understandable terms or by citing the source of the opinion or information in such a way that the perspective is identifiable, upon motion by any user to the Arbitration Committee and presentation of proof of such failure Lance6wins shall be restricted from editing articles which concern the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for a term to be decided at that point.

 * Aye:
 * Fred Bauder 12:01, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:
 * Martin 15:10, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC) prefer more general, below
 * I prefer an outright ban from these articles. Jwrosenzweig 22:48, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Prefer more general solution. James F. (talk) 12:23, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Abstain:

2) In the event Lance6wins is unable or unwilling to conform to the requirements in the arbitration rulings above, upon motion by any user to the Arbitration Committee and presentation of proof of such failure Lance6wins shall be restricted from editing articles which concern the Israeli-Palestinian conflict for a term to be decided at that point.

 * Aye:
 * Fred Bauder 17:40, Sep 25, 2004 (UTC)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 12:23, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:
 * Again, an outright ban is preferred, see below. Jwrosenzweig 22:48, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 18:56, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Abstain:

3. Any edit by Lance6wins to any article related to the Palestinian-Israeli confict may be reverted by any editor.

 * Aye:
 * Fred Bauder 15:21, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * Jwrosenzweig 21:20, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 12:23, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 18:56, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * →Raul654 02:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:

4. Any Wikipedia administrator may ban Lance6wins from Wikipedia for a short period (a day or up to a week for repeat offenses) if it is discovered that he has edited articles which relate to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict.

 * Aye:
 * Fred Bauder 15:21, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * Jwrosenzweig 21:20, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * the Epopt 06:39, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * James F. (talk) 12:23, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Martin 18:56, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Nay:

 * Abstain:

Discussion by arbitrators
I've never written principles or findings, so I'm hesitant to do so. Having reviewed the evidence, I would like to propose a long-term restriction on editing Palestine-related articles for L6W, who has shown, in my opinion, pronounced and consistent bias in his edits to numerous articles, in violation of NPOV, and who has violated the 3 revert rule numerous times, unless I miscount. I would also like to propose desysopping for Zero -- perhaps probationally (with an opportunity to apply directly to the AC for reinstatement after x months) [see talk for explanation of strikethrough] or perhaps "permanently" (meaning, until the community resysops....perhaps we should place a time limit on how long it should be before it's proposed at RFA, or else someone will simply immediately nominate) -- in light of his open disregard for blocking policy by blocking someone over a content dispute in which he was integrally involved. Probation would be another response (a period of time in which any further abuse of powers would receive a desysopping), but I am worried that it is too weak a response to an action taken consciously in violation of policy. Frustration is understandable, but someone who can't keep from abusing their abilities as an admin because of frustration should take some time away from being one. Zero said he didn't care about the consequences for himself -- he had to "protect" Wikipedia. All right, then. He should not complain about being desysopped when he knew going in that he was violating policy. That's my thoughts. Again, I'm hesitant to propose them above simply because we are very careful about wording, and I don't want to get us started on the wrong foot. Can someone help me sort out how I can post this? Jwrosenzweig 22:19, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)

My take on it right now is that lance6wins edits from what can be generally termed a partisan viewpoint. It is difficult to adequately characterize his viewpoint in simple terms, for example I don't think he is a settler, although he may be. Lance6win's perspective is similar to that of Daniel Pipes, a relatively well known commentator. I think that perspective is significant and ought to be included in articles relating to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict but ought to be identified either by reference to the perspective taken or the source of the material, in the case of the radio station, actually the web site (Lance6wins says the radio is shut down), its perspective is well known to Israelis but can be difficult to characterize to those unfamiliar with such nuances. At any rate identifying the perspective of material added to an article is the responsibility of the person who adds it. Simply taking that perspective and inserting it into the article as the truth is not acceptable; it needs to be attributed in some way which identifies it. Fred Bauder 11:05, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)

Motion to close

 * 1) Let's move on. It's way past time. --mav 03:29, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Delirium 07:05, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) the Epopt 14:58, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) Jwrosenzweig 19:04, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) →Raul654 02:53, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)


text:
Ōpōtiki

Ōpōtiki (from Ōpōtiki-Mai-Tawhiti) is a town in the eastern Bay of Plenty in the North Island of New Zealand. It houses the headquarters of the Ōpōtiki District Council, the mayor of Ōpōtiki and comes under the Bay of Plenty Regional Council.

Geography
The town of Ōpōtiki is situated exactly on latitude 38° South. The climate is temperate. Summer temperatures reach the mid-20s (Celsius, mid-70s Fahrenheit) on the coast and encourage a continuation of the beach culture of the Bay of Plenty. Winter days are often cloudless, the daytime temperature never drops below freezing but there may be a mild frost at night. Winter snow falls along the crest of the ranges, and on the higher peaks (over 1000 m) may remain for a few weeks. Rain occurs at any season. Severe localised rainstorms ('cloudbursts') may occur in the high country and have caused flash flooding including past inundations of Ōpōtiki township.

Demographics
Ōpōtiki covers 8.59 km2 and had an estimated population of as of  with a population density of  people per km2.

Before the 2023 census, the town had a larger boundary, covering 10.15 km2. Using that boundary, Ōpōtiki had a population of 4,806 at the 2018 New Zealand census, an increase of 735 people (18.1%) since the 2013 census, and an increase of 363 people (8.2%) since the 2006 census. There were 1,539 households, comprising 2,337 males and 2,472 females, giving a sex ratio of 0.95 males per female, with 1,221 people (25.4%) aged under 15 years, 921 (19.2%) aged 15 to 29, 1,920 (40.0%) aged 30 to 64, and 744 (15.5%) aged 65 or older.

Ethnicities were 46.7% European/Pākehā, 67.9% Māori, 4.2% Pacific peoples, 3.7% Asian, and 1.1% other ethnicities. People may identify with more than one ethnicity.

The percentage of people born overseas was 8.2, compared with 27.1% nationally.

Although some people chose not to answer the census's question about religious affiliation, 41.9% had no religion, 30.7% were Christian, 18.0% had Māori religious beliefs, 0.6% were Hindu, 0.3% were Muslim, 0.1% were Buddhist and 2.1% had other religions.

Of those at least 15 years old, 303 (8.5%) people had a bachelor's or higher degree, and 1,029 (28.7%) people had no formal qualifications. 174 people (4.9%) earned over $70,000 compared to 17.2% nationally. The employment status of those at least 15 was that 1,530 (42.7%) people were employed full-time, 480 (13.4%) were part-time, and 300 (8.4%) were unemployed.

Marae
Ōpōtiki contains three marae:

 * Maromahue Marae and Te Poho o Kahungunu meeting house is a traditional meeting place of the Whakatōhea hapū of Te Ūpokorehe. In October 2020, the Government committed $364,597 from the Provincial Growth Fund to upgrade the marae, creating 16 jobs.
 * Te Rere Marae and Te Iringa meeting house is a meeting place of the Whakatōhea hapū of Ngāti Ngahere. In October 2020, the Government committed $744,574 to upgrade it and two other marae, creating 30 jobs.
 * Rongopopoia Marae, also known as Te Kahikatea Marae, is a meeting place of the Tūhoe hapū of Upokorehe.

Museum
Opotiki Heritage and Agricultural Society runs a museum in Ōpōtiki. It opened in 2001.

Transport and infrastructure
Ōpōtiki is situated at the northern junction of State Highway 2 and State Highway 35. To the west, State Highway 2 connects Ōpotiki to Whakatāne, Rotorua and Tauranga. To the south and east, State Highway 2 provides a direct inland route to Gisborne, while State Highway 35 follows the coast via Te Araroa.

Coastal shipping used Opotiki Harbour until the mid-1960s. As of 2023, a project is underway to reconstruct the harbour, including the wharf and harbour entrance.

Horizon Networks owns and operates the electricity distribution network in Ōpōtiki, with electricity fed from Transpower's national grid at its Waiotahi substation.

Natural gas arrived in Ōpōtiki in 1984, as part of the construction of the Kawerau to Gisborne high-pressure pipeline. Today, First Gas owns and operates both the high-pressure pipeline and the local distribution network supplying the town.

Education
Ōpōtiki College is a co-educational state high school for Year 9 to 13 students, with a roll of  as of.

Ōpōtiki has three co-educational primary schools for Year 1 to 8 students: Opotiki School, with a roll of ; Ashbrook School, with a roll of ; and Woodlands School, with a roll of.

St Joseph's Catholic School is a co-educational state-integrated Catholic primary school for Year 1 to 8 students, with a roll of as of.

Notable people
James Rolleston, an actor known for his role in Boy and Vodafone NZ advertisements, lives and was raised in Ōpōtiki.

title: Ōpōtiki


text:
Talk:Southend-on-Sea/Archive 1

Removed

 * Government league tables for 2003 show that the results for Southend-on-Sea Local Education Authority at Key Stage 3 are better than the English average. (Source : Department for Education and Skills)

This kind of information in so sensitive to change year on year. In isolation it is not particularly noteworthy If there is a fair point to be made about the area's achievement in education, there should be far more information and explanation. Also "Key Stage 3" is jargon that would not be understood by many readers, even many in the UK.

Night life
Do we need all that stuff about Southend's crappy night clubs like Storm and Talk? hardly encyclopedic, esp all that stuff about playing 'cheese' quercus robur 23:34, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Someone should really mention the SOS Bus on the Southend page, there are only about 4 in the entire country and the place that started the scheme says we've got the best one!

Palace theatre
Despite recent edit, the Palace Theatre is well and truly closed, I went past it earlier today and the whole building is boarded up, hence reverted. quercus robur 10:48, 14 January 2006 (UTC) i went to see an excellent show yesterday, it was open i can promise you

Helen Mirren
Is she really from Southend? Her Wikipedia entry appears to disagree... Helen Mirren --Yyem 10:11, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Depends on your definition of "from". She was born in Ilford, but grew up in the borough. The article says "Following appearances on stage during her school years at St Bernard's high school for girls in Westcliff-on-Sea, Essex, her first starring role was in 1965 as Cleopatra for the National Youth Theatre. ". Westcliff-on-Sea is part of Southend. Mr Weeble  Talk Brit tv 11:40, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

What a WONDERFUL place to live!
Southend is one of the world's best kept secrets in my opinion. With a balance of urban and a touch of rural blend sharing the same landscape, the visuals can be awe Inspiring. On any given day, one may see a couple of teenagers riding horses down the street with mom and Pop or some Ferraris, lamboginis, Harley-Davidsons, etc. crusing the strip (esp Saturday night.) The first time I saw miles of dancing grass fields near a local pub with fun seekers smiling, mingling and sipping drinks with someone in a clown suit, I knew right then and there that this, is a very, VERY special place. After living there for a short time, I quickly understood that the people of Southend are unique in many ways. The word that sums up the residents of Southend is genuine! They truly are just that. No more, no less. Only fifty minutes or so from London (ironically, I met folks that has never been to London in their life and has no buring desire to go), one of the largest and busiest cities in the world, in contrast, Southend has few of London's big city worries. The people are cordial yet private. Family is Southend's leading motivation. In other words, Southend raise kids well. It's an area where you will see an elderly couple taking an after dinner evening stroll with the grand kids (and I hope that never ever changes.) Within minutes, one can hop on a bike and find themselves at the seafront cruising miles and miles of boardwalk enjoying the breeze or chatting with a millionaire across the table at one of the many seafront eateries. As for entertainment, take your pick. From theater e.g. The Cliff Pavilion to the trendiest night spots. From a year-round beachfront amusement park for the kiddies to a choice of casinos for punters of every level. A clean, safe, friendly place that has strong uncompromising middle class values in all areas, the prefered way to spend any given weekend will alway be with family and friends. To the Southender' there just isn't any other way worth their time. However, overall, put in proper proportion, whatever problems Southend may perceive are minor indeed. The local residents seem to have developed a near perfect balance of work and family priorities. Family wins hands down! Family first, work second. So, what's important in Southend? Family. Simple! Truth is, in my opinion, Southend is one of this planets biggest and best kept secrets and, that's just the way the excellent people of Southend-on-Sea like it.

Yep yep!

T. Walter Sanford (The American)Noimright 03:18, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Are you from a parellel universe??? This is clearly a different Southend from the town I've lived in for the last 40 years!!! quercus robur 19:47, 2 April 2007 (UTC) (date noted, BTW...)

 * There is also a Southend at the end of the Mull of Kintyre. --JohnArmagh 18:21, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks Noimright. It's nice to hear some positive comments about Southend for a change. It seems that most Southendians (and I admit; I am guilty of this myself at times) dwell on the unpleasant aspects of the town and, generally, only have negative things to say about the place. --Thirst4knowledge06 (talk) 10:43, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

 * The first comment is far from the truth. The commenter says he grew up in East Cleveland, Ohio, USA in the 1960s and 1970s. His only edits have been to this talk page and to the talk page of East Cleveland, whose article states that it is very poor. I guess his only experience of Southend is one visit in the 1960s, and his memory of that is all he knows of Southend. Those who know this dead-end town well are aware that there is nothing "awe-inspiring" about it - much of it is run-down and a high proportion of its residents are underclass. There are worse towns in the UK, but there is nothing special about Southend. The rates of homelessness, mental illness and poverty are all much higher than the national average. Ferraris and Lamborghinis are a rare sight. Souped-up Ford Escorts with blacked-out windows, driven dangerously by attention-seeking boy racers showing off along the seafront are much more common. Very few residents have never been to London - a high proportion either work in London or are from London. It has all of London's problems (gangs, alcoholism, stabbings, muggings, beatings, drug addiction, overcrowding), except for gun crime. There are no undiscovered secrets in Southend - it is very similar to other large and medium sized seaside towns in SE England, such as Clacton, Margate, Hastings, Brighton. The claim that it is safe and peaceful is ridiculous - on Friday and Saturday nights, the Seafront and town centre are like a war zone. It is not all bad, but the first comment is so far from the truth that it needs to be countered. 188.28.20.223 (talk) 14:37, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Layout
Hello editors,

Just a note that the article would be better presented according to the recommendations presented at WP:UKCITIES. The article as it currently exists is a little jumbled and I think UKCITIES would be the right way forwards. Hope that helps, -- Jza84 · (talk) 03:36, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Topics a former resident would like to see covered
As a one-time resident with happy memories of the Southend-on-Sea area, here are some topics that I (and children and friends) would find interesting in encyclopedia articles. Many may seem self-evident, but they are not, from several thousand miles away, with Turner Classic Movies providing the image of British sea side towns via Laurence Olivier as The Entertainer, Richard Attenborough in Brighton Rock, Finlay Currie in The Brothers, Rebecca and The Wreckers. I think that my mentioning the following topics does not intrude on guidelines for writing about settlements. I realize they span Thames Estuary, Thorpe Bay to Leigh on Sea, and linked articles, but putting them in one place avoids need for duplication).

1. Data on the annual number of day trippers over the years, their demography, travel time, expenditure, impact on growth of transportation.

2. Descriptions (and pictures) of how the people on day trips or longer vacations spent their time and what they saw, listened to and bought. In particular:

2.1 On the cliff top level: the floral clock, the bandstand (and the bands that played, the choice of music).

2.2 Between cliff and promenade levels: the cliff lift (how it worked), the Shrubbery, the Illuminations (in the 1930s and 1940s -- I don't know how much longer).

2.3 At promenade level, transport.

2.4 Promenade, north side: shops (commodities, including "rock", "naughty" postcards), beach huts.

2.5 Promenade south side and beach: rented deck chairs, changing cubicles, sail boat rides (including to queue of merchant vessels during dock strike), tidal behaviour, seaweeds, marine life (children catching crabs in groynes), sea front entertainers (if there were any -- I think there were not, unlike Blackpool), slot machines (certainly under pier entrance).

2.6 Pier: boat trips (to Margate and where else?), sand artists at low tide, a seal that swam around for a few days in about 1950.

3. Description of cockles would be useful. Many people do not know what these are.

4. Description of Kursaal before and after it burnt.

5. "Personalities" such as the promenade preacher who drew crowds chanting "And I'll tell you the story of Harry and Mae West".

6. Description of York Market: itinerant or fixed vendors, variety of goods (included American comic books in late 1930s).

7. Was there an arcade at top of High Street that might be considered example of early equivalent of modern shopping mall that merits mention?

8. Width of Estuary, progressing from Leigh eastward. Distance between low and high tides. Mud flats (and their perceived therapeutic value). Mussel beds. Underwater river exposed at low tide.

9. Socio-economics (categorization of residences, home ownership or rental), utilization(private residence, boarding houses, use of vacated houses by troops ?Pioneer Corps? during WWII).

10. Parks, gardens (e.g. library garden in Leigh just west of St. Clement's rectory).

11. Open countryside (e.g. between Leigh and Hadleigh) -- extent, categorization, flora and fauna.

12. Style of railroad engines, carriages, stations.

All of these are of potential interest in scholarly research -- social, economic and military history, earth sciences and ecology. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Michael P. Barnett (talk • contribs) 16:22, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Some of these (such as cockles) would be better of in their own articels Cockle (bivalve), others (such as flora and fuana might be too detailed for what is only an overview.Slatersteven (talk) 16:39, 19 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Re cockles -- direct mention in context of Southend and Leigh illustrates evolution of socio-economics of food consumption. Oysters were considered gourmet food at one time by people who would not set foot where cockles were sold. Now, Leigh brags about its upscale cockle bars.
 * Re flora and fauna: matter of perspective as to what belongs in an overview. I did not suggest complete enumeration, just statement of category with a few examples. Just a couple of sentences. As interesting to many as some items in the articles at present.

P.S. And of course Museums, Art Galleries, Buildings of historical or architectural interest. Michael P. Barnett (talk) 17:02, 19 December 2010 (UTC)

Automated Peer Review
The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question. You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, FM [ talk to me  |  show contributions  ]  22:54, 6 January 2012 (UTC)
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Content Improvement suggestion
Hi editors, can I make a suggestion that the section relating to Southends Economy is improved or extended? the following link may be of some assistance.Please feel free to copy any content you feel is appropriate. http://www.locations4business.com/features-news/southends-local-economy-has-six-major-sectors/

Many Thanks Donald F Cousins (talk) 16:27, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

 * However we can't just copy and paste that material. At the bottom of the page is clearly states it is under copyright. CambridgeBayWeather (talk) 20:55, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

Photo
Is it just me, or is it odd that the main aerial picture of Southend-on-SEA makes the town appear as if it's landlocked?! There are a lot of great photos showing the town's coastline, which is its original reason for existence. Could one not be included please?
 * How about this one ? Southend from Southend Pier.jpges (talk) 16:08, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

Nautical miles
I am highly amused that the distance from downtown to the airport is given in "nautical miles." — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.161.71.247 (talk) 01:53, 12 August 2016 (UTC)

Retail in Southend
Hi, I am working on retail articles across the UK, and have been trying to find information regarding Ravens and J R Roberts. Ravens is the oldest still operating retail business in Southend and is still owned by the same family. They currently operate in Clifftown Road, however they have operated at 3 other locations - 48 High Street, 90 High Street and 24-32 London Road, Southend. However I have no evidence of when they moved between these premises I believe they started in 1897 at 48, before moving to 90 in 1900 - pictures of Percy Ravens at 90 High Street show the distinctive round window that is still retained in the building. They moved out of this premises to London Road, I believe some time in the 1930s as the building has 30s design tones, and Britain above shows in 1928 that the building had yet to be built. Also J R Roberts at some time moved from Nelson Street where they opened in 1899 to 90 High Street but again no record can be found. Any Help would be appreciated.Davidstewartharvey (talk) 11:42, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

30-degree courses?
We read "South Essex College offers 30-degree courses matriculated by the University of Essex". Is the reader supposed to know what a 30-degree course is? 31.52.254.16 (talk) 22:48, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
 * No, you are supposed to know that it offers 30 courses that are degrees.Slatersteven (talk) 22:49, 11 February 2017 (UTC)
 * In which case the hyphen should be removed! 31.52.254.16 (talk) 22:50, 11 February 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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Daniel Hardcastle
The BLP is Daniel Hardcastle tagged with by PK650 two weeks ago. The #Notable people section here is tagged with since January 2018. My edit summary was removed Daniel Hardcastle, notability disputed on the BLP and no RS source here. –84.46.53.255 (talk) 12:05, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Ahh then I misunderstood. When it is AFD then we can remove it here, but as long as he has an entry he is notable for our purposes.Slatersteven (talk) 14:20, 17 January 2020 (UTC)
 * No opinion about that, but somebody added an un-sourced statement about him on Emma Blackery, and that was—and will be again "soon"—a GA candidate, where I shoot everything without RS first and ask questions later. –84.46.52.59 (talk) 21:28, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

"Large" town
There is a discussion at talk:Milton Keynes that may be of interest to editors of this article (since it also uses the phrase "large town"). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 11:02, 12 January 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Southend-on-Sea/Archive 1


text:
Talk:Ayacucho

Population
From Ayacucho, Peru:
 * Ayacucho has a population of 32,000 people.

From Ayacucho:
 * (...) 140,000 inhabitants.

Any idea?--Edcolins 10:37, Aug 8, 2004 (UTC)

According to the Instituto Nacional de Estadistica e Informatica, the population of the city of Ayacucho (also known as Huamanga) was 185,640 in 2000. I've heard that it has surpassed 200,000 since then. --67.142.130.14 02:59, 18 July 2006 (UTC)

Incorrect Image, and image caption
The image of the "Willkaman" cathedral is improperly placed here. That building is the main church of Vilcashuaman, which is not part of the city of Ayacucho, but is a town further south in the Ayacucho Department, in the Province of Cangallo. 67.101.41.239 17:56, 8 July 2007 (UTC)JRF

Sendero Luminoso???
I realize this is an article about a department in Peru, but it is difficult to overstate the (negative) impact that Sendero Luminoso Ayacucho had in the region. There were years and years of violence and terrorism there, and the article doesn't even mention it. It directly affected everyone who lives there today. --160.133.1.228 (talk) 16:09, 25 February 2011 (UTC)

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Terrorism. Shining Path. Sendero Luminoso
Ayacucho was the most damaged area by terrorism in Peru. People like Abimael Guzman, Morote Best and Osman Morote are responsible for the death of thousands of Peruvians in that area. It is incredible that the largest criminal organization in Peruvian history is not mentioned 2605:8D80:6E0:EA3D:4153:5CA1:45B1:C959 (talk) 18:58, 10 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ayacucho


text:
Talk:Tenshin Shōden Katori Shintō-ryū

English version vs others.
Why does the French version site many branches and the English version insist there is only one? Politics? The article is not therefore factual. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.168.242.78 (talk) 06:46, 3 March 2013 (UTC)
 * This is the age-old "schismatic schools of Katori Shinto ryu" discussion. It is getting bored to watch the reverts about it over the years. I stopped educating people about it long time ago. Just read the correct references and you'll understand it. jni (delete)...just not interested 18:28, 18 March 2014 (UTC)

 * I have been observing it too and I agree. It doesn't shed a glorious light upon the ryu as a whole, that they are not able settle a feudthis old... talking about codes of honour...
 * Why not add a neutral statement along the lines of "For several decades there has been a dispute among the different schools's students about wether Yukihiro Sugino has all necessary legitimisation to teach alongside Risuke Otake." ?

In answer to the last question: it's only ever been a question by US students of Otake as far I can I can understand (they have even gone as far as to alter translations of Otake's books, which he has apologised for). Sugino is fully recognised by the Soke. End of story. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nealie67 (talk • contribs) 16:02, 12 August 2015 (UTC)

--5.28.107.254 (talk) 21:26, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Questioning the historical accuracy of some statements
I'm not sure some of the statements made in this article are historically accurate. For example, claiming that the sword was the main weapon of the era. I believe in the 1400s the main weapon was in fact NOT the sword, it was in the spear (yari) and likely the bow. The sword did not become a "main" weapon until the Edo period after 1600, I think.

Also, claiming that the bushi couldn't raise swords above their heads due to their kabuto? That strikes me as odd. I'd like to see real citations for that. I could be wrong but I think that's very unlikely. Kazrian (talk) 06:30, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Marishiten as Krishna?
I believe this is a very bold statement, that requires some further clarification. It makes absolute sense that the samurais in pre-Edo civil war torn Japan would seek refuge in Krishna, which is, among many things, a counsellor to warriors. The image of a meditative monk like that of the Buddha was certainly not the most inspiring in times when arrows and very sharp swords were flying everywhere. The Bhagavad Gita discourse is in its essence a bellicose dialogue that happens midst the battlefield.

A quick online research doesn’t shed much light on this claim. Here’s what different scholars have to say:

According to Saroj Kumar Chaudhuri: “Indian mythology projects Marīci as one of the ten mind-born children of Brahmā (Jp. = Bonten). The word Marīci itself appears in the Rig Veda, meaning ‘ray of light of the sun or the moon.’ In Japan, however, this deity was treated as a female divinity. She enjoyed some popularity among practitioners of martial arts and entertainers who prayed to her for success. Otherwise, she had little popularity in Japan. She is virtually ignored in popular [Japanese] literature. She is said to be positioned in fornt of the sun and hence invisible. Evils can be eliminated by chanting her mantra. She fought taking the side of Indra (Jp. = Taishakuten) when the Asura attacked Indra to recover the Asura king’s daughter (then Indra’s consort). In the 12th century, Marīci was worshipped in China for protection. From around this time, she became popular in Japan also, especially among warriors and entertainers.”

William Edward Soothill says: “Spelled Marīci (Sanskrit). Rays of light, the sun’s rays, said to go before the sun; mirage. A goddess, independent and sovereign, protectress against all violence and peril. In Brahmanic mythology, the personification of light, offspring of Brahmā, parent of Sūrya. Among Chinese Buddhists Marīci is represented as a female with eight arms, two of which are holding aloft emblems of sun and moon, and worshipped as goddess of light and as the guardian of all nations, whom she protects from the fury of war. She is addressed as 天后 queen of heaven, or as 斗姥 (literally “mother of the Southern Measure μλρστζ or Sagittarī), and identified with Tchundi and with Mahēśvarī, the wife of Maheśvara, and has therefore the attribute Mātrikā -- Mother of the Myriad Buddha. Taoists address her as Queen of Heaven.” Soothill also identifies Marīci with Saptakotibuddha-mātṛ (Shichikuchi Butsumo Son 七倶胝佛母尊), the fabulous mother of seven koṭīs of Buddhas (70 million Buddha). Other entrees in Soothill’s dictionary say she is known as well as Candī / Cundi 準提 / 准胝 / 尊提 or as Cundī-Guanyin 準提觀音 (a form of Kannon). In Brahmanic mythology, Candī / Cundi is a vindictive form of Hindu goddess Durgā, who can appear in the form of a wild boar.

Says the Digital Dictionary of Buddhism “Transliteration of Sanskrit Marici. An Indian goddess of the morning sun adopted into the Buddhist pantheon. She rides a chariot drawn by seven pigs, her charioteer either the Hindu deity Rhu or a goddess with no legs. She is the consort of Vairocana (Jp. = Dainichi), though rarely shown in yab-yum with him. She is associated with the constellations of Sagittarius and the Little Bear. She is shown with three faces and eight hands, either in her chariot or simply standing on the back of a sow. She is one of the 20 Celestials 二十天.”

According to JAANUS: Marishiten is the name of a Buddhist goddess representing an amalgamation of several Hindu antecedents, primarily the god Marici, who is considered to have been a son of Brahma (Bonten 梵天) or one of the ten patriarchs created by the first lawgiver Manu. The deity assumed female form on adoption into Japanese Buddhism. Since Marici means "light" or "mirage," Marici was regarded as a deification of mirages and being thus invisible or difficult to see was invoked in order to escape the notice of one's enemies. This martial aspect has been carried over in the cult of Marishiten in Japan, where she came to be revered as a tutelary deity of the warrior class. Later she was also worshipped as a goddess of wealth and prosperity among the merchant class, being counted along with Daikokuten 大黒天 and Benzaiten 弁財天 as one of a trio of "three deities" (Santen 三天) invoked for such a purpose during the Edo period. She assumes a variety of forms and may have one, three, five or six faces and two, six, eight, ten or twelve arms; in her many-faced manifestations, one of her faces is that of a sow, and she rides either a sow or a chariot drawn by seven pigs. Images of Marishiten are common in India, but there are few examples in Japan. Shōtakuin 聖沢院 (Kyoto) has a polychrome painting said to be of Korean provenance, while Tokudaiji Temple 徳大寺 (Tokyo) is dedicated to a large image of her dubiously attributed to Shōtoku Taishi 聖徳太子 (574-622 AD). The Nispannayogavali also describes a mandala 曼荼羅 centered on Marishiten. Note: The Flammarion Guide says her mandala is composed of two interlaced triangles with her image in the center, dancing, surrounded by four Dakinis.

The Flammarion Guide says: “She was worshipped in Japan during the Middle Ages by warriors, especially archers, who often wore her image, protecting those who invoked her name, and making them invisible in danger. People can neither see her nor harm her. She was also worshipped by disciples of Zen and Nichiren. The Japanese have mostly forgotten her now, and she is worshipped only very occasionally. She assumes various forms [in Japan].

In order to arrive at the proper answer, it is necessary to have a close look to the Vedic character Marichi, which, according to Wikipedia itself, Rishi Marichi or Mareechi or Marishi (ṛṣi Marīci, ऋषि मरीचि) (meaning a ray of light) was the grandson of first Jain tirthankara Rishabhanatha and son of Bharata Chakravartin. He was the founder of Vedanta, hence he is believed by some as the son of Brahma. Some also consider him as one of the Saptarshi (Seven Great Sages Rishi). In another classification, Marichi is one of the ten Prajapatis, the ruler of people created by Brahma. In Jain scriptures, he is referred to as one of the previous reincarnations of the 24th Tirthankara Mahavira as son of the Bharata Chakravartin. It is Lord Krishna Himself who, in chapter 10.21 of the Bhagavad Gita who claims to be Marichi:

Bhagavad Gita, chapter 10, sloka 21:

'''आदित्यानामहं विष्णुर्ज्योतिषां रविरंशुमान्।

मरीचिर्मरुतामस्मि नक्षत्राणामहं शशी।।10.21।।'''

Translation by Swami Sivananda:

"Among the Adityas, I am Vishnu; Among luminaries, the radiant sun; I am Marichi among the Maruts; among stars the moon am I.

Otake Risuke's Retirement and Nobutoshi's Hamon
An anonymous user from IP 221.186.89.65 has been adding the following daily in the last few weeks:

"The current, twentieth generation headmaster, is Iizasa Yasusada (飯篠 修理亮 快貞 Iizasa Shūri-no-suke Yasusada). He does not teach his family's system and had instead appointed as his main representative instructor Risuke Ōtake who has a personal dojo close to Narita City. Upon Ōtake Risuke's retirement, he appointed his eldest son Nobutoshi as shihan, with his younger son Shigetoshi, to serve as shihan-dai. Kyōsō Shigetoshi was appointed shihan in September 2017."

Otake Risuke does not have the authority to appoint shihan. The source does not say that he made the appointment, nor does it state anything whatsoever about Kyoso Shigetoshi. We can only assume that the brothers' appointments came from the soke, unless some source states otherwise. The term "shihan-dai" is not mentioned in any English language sources, not is 師範代 mentioned in the Japanese version of https://www.katorishintoryu.jp/denjutaikei. Both brothers had been listed as shihan in past publications and previous iterations of the website, before Shigetoshi broke away from the Shimbukan.

The user has also been quietly removing reference to Otake Nobutoshi's hamon. This was announced publicly on the soke's website as "Important Message" (see http://katori-shintoryu.jp/en/important-message/) and has been a matter of public interest, albeit not a pleasant one for the Otake family and the Shimbukan, that has generated quite a few questions in the koryu community. Removing this information seems politically motivated.

This user recently wrote in the Edit Summary: "Around 6mths prior to Otake Risuke's retirement as shihan, he announced his retirement to the students and expressed that he wished for his son Nobutoshi to replace him and for Shigetoshi to support him as shihan-dai. A member of the Iizasa family was also present in the shinbukan for this." While I have heard similar information through word-of-mouth, the information does not appear in any source here, and certainly not in the source the user cites.

Please keep the article objective and factual.

Narf Fran (talk) 16:18, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tenshin Shōden Katori Shintō-ryū