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User talk:Meelar/archive 6

Thanks for the Wiki welcome
Mellar, thanks for the welcome. Best regards Darren. Dlloyd 04:02, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Also, thank you for my wikiwelcome =D Jaberwocky6669 05:02, Jul 27, 2004 (UTC)

Dear Meelar, thanks for the welcome. Bye, Gianluigi 18:56, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I Think I Got It!
Hey Meelar. Thank you for the great suggestion. I think Michael MacLennan should pass 'Wiki' standards. I am still open though to suggestions. MatthewRed 02:01, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

bête noire
Hi Meelar, hope I'm doing this right...brand new to Wikipedia and I'm still kind of feeling my way around. I agree completely about "bête noire" -- it does need fleshing out. (I noticed that an empty link to it already existed and I figured I'd just go ahead and dive in!) Not much of a French scholar but I'll see what I can do about beefing up the entry a bit. Thanks for your help! :^)

Clouseau

Rapidly becoming your bête noire?
Hey, no problem! I'm not cripplingly egotistical, so I won't find it emotionally debilitating if the article is deleted. Thanks again for your help -- please feel free to pass along any suggestions for improvement!

Clouseau 23:26, 10 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the Wiki welcome
Meelar, Thanks for your welcome to me. So much to try to do, so little time. . . Prioritizing helps, eh? (smile)

You're the first one to let me know about how to use the tildes. I notice that the Editing help page doesn't have directions for how to make the degree sign (as in Celsius or Farenheit). Could an admin add that info into its content? (Check out my revision to Mojave Desert to see what I mean)

Enjoy your collegiate studies! Sounds like you're a Poly Sci major. All that reading of texts and papers to write. . . I remember those days with some fondness and still remember memorizing standard macroeconomics facts for tests (though I don't remember them now). Something about Gross National Product, personal income, etc. In time, you too will be able to forget as I have. . . There is hope for you. . . (smile) Happy Trails, --avnative 01:48, Jul 12, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome (though a bit late)! :) -- Bluemask 14:24, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Shock Sites
That same user just put tubgirl.com onto my talk page. I erased it but it's in my history. Mike H 20:18, Jul 12, 2004 (UTC)

 * He vandalized Lucky 6.9's user page with graphic descriptions of anal penetration, oral sex, and defecation. I fixed it but it's in the history. Mike H 20:20, Jul 12, 2004 (UTC)

Hello to you too!
Thanks for the welcome - you must have missed my previous attempts! And thanks for editing my page, that looks much nicer now!

Emrys2

Thanks for your welcome
Thank your for your welcome! I just come and go on the english wikipedia... in fact I write on the french and italian wikipedia as it is easier for me! But making links I always end up here... and sometimes I even write something, or at least I try! Sicilarch 20:12, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

I Second That!
Thanks for the welcome and the good advice. Heenan73 20:26, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the tip
Meelar, thanks for the tip with MusicWiki content from Wikipedia. Would you please take one minute to check if this article conforms to Wikipedia rules? Thank you very much in advance.

 * Thanks for checking, Meelar.

AlissonSellaro

Thanks for the welcome Meelar! Jcmaco 22:17, Jul 13, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome and the tips :-) -I'm slowly learning how everything works - I find Wikipedia is a quite intriguing concept - already spent far too much time on it than I anticipated! Kind Regards Morten 15:17, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thank you for your help
Thanks very much for your speedy resolution of my confusion about links on, I will watch for capital letters more carefully now. User:Francis Davey

is my article ok
I want to send links to my peers to my common alerting protocol article

will this article be alive always?

This is my stuff
This is stuff that me and my coworkers wrote. I dont have time to start digging up references. If you want i can remove the stuff that seems duplicated. give me the article back so i can do it. Some of the stuff i wrote just now...

ok but the article is no where to be found
Where is the article that was suspended? I looked at the copyright page and couldnt find it. Also, can I first get it published and then edit the details to make it fit the standards (within the week)

Thanks for the welcome
Thanks for the welcome to Wikipedia. Especially the hint on signing, I was wondering how to do that easily. Keep an eye out, I've got lots to add over time. James Crippen 23:17, 14 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome
Thanks for the welcome to Wikipedia. I've actually been active for a while. My Boundary to space article even made it to the Main Page. But anyway: thanks again; it's nice to be welcomed by an "established Wikipedian". Also thanks for the hint on signing. Ropers 13:13, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks a lot - I've been a Wikipedia user for a couple of years, only now getting round to contributing something back. I'll probably concentrate on Northern Ireland politics and recent history in the short term, although am likely to do some things in Turkey when I get the time, maybe some translation into German.

And I'm a politics graduate myself from the Queen's University of Belfast. Gerry Lynch 17:07, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Questions
Thanks for your note. I know I am supposed to use the talk pages for that purpose however I have found that sticking the question at the top of the article is an extremely effective way of getting a quick edit. It also serves to highlight an issue I have, people who write good article, usually quite sensible ones but they overlook any form of introduction and plunge straight into the details. It is really quite important to start off with where, when and what you are writing about. Articles about computers seem to be the worst although I recently got involved with a series of articles that described the several sports heroes and never once mentioned which sport was involved. Cheers ping 22:33, 15 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Cycle Path
They are NEVER called "cycle paths" in the U.S. They are almost invariably called bike paths. I think you should have left it as "bike path", inserted a note that they are called cycle paths in the UK, and created cycle path as a redirect, since the general rule is for US/non-US conflicts is that the article goes under the original regional heading of whoever wrote it. jaknouse 00:12, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome!
Off to do some edits...Silly Dan 02:44, 2004 Jul 16 (UTC)

Nice welcome!
Thanks for the welcome, much appreciated. Now off to get my hands dirty with some editing. Impi 17:37, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Editing question
Can you help me sort out [this] problem, please?

Thank you.

Thanks for the welcome! Frogman 20:07, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hey there...
I don't think I quite got what you meant, Meelar. Did I make any mistakes? I don't think so, but if you elucidated me I would be very thankful.

Alright.
Thanks, man. I am going to try my best to help the Wikipedia grow. ;) See ya around.

Wikisource
Thanks for mentioning Wikisource, I will examine the possibility of moving the story The Parable of the Water-Tank to that location. Stewjack 21:20, Jul 16, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for info
Hi, thanks for the info on copyright, i thought that if no copyright restriction were visibile on the original site the image was trouble-free for wikipedia; I'm sorry, my mistake.. If you think is better to delete the images i uploaded due to copyright problems go ahead, no problem for me :). Krellmachine 23:13, 16 Jul 2004 (UTC)

EMH Comment
Thanks for the welcome.

I came across EMH on the "random page" link.

I know about the time stamp, I just haven't gotten around to remembering it. ;) --1pezguy 04:06, Jul 17, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks
Thank you for the welcome! -- Ra1nMaker 16:13, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Little Help?=== ==

Hi, thanks for the greeting, thing is, i'm having real trouble uploading pictures from other sites, couldn't give us a hand could yer? --Crestville 18:56, 17 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Bah!
Bah? -- Cecropia | Talk 06:38, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

sure
No problem, See User talk:Fallout1. I added Be Bold! as well, and am thinking of leaving it at that. Sam [Spade] 06:55, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Humbug
Actually, my teen-aged daughters and their friends keep me in touch with where youth culture is these days--up to a point. I'm not one of those people who thinks "everything was better when I was a kid." The '50s were a crappy time to grow up, all the nostalgia notwithstanding. The '60s weren't great either, what with a war draft and a lot of social turmoil, but they were very culturally alive and interesting. One thing I'll say is that kids today (remember my advanced age when I specify kids) are much nicer than when I was a kid. More open, friendlier, easy to talk to. There are trends that bother me, but I also see a lot of return to what I would call "old standards" in society in general.

That bit of senior rambling notwithstanding, my favorite thing on Wikipedia is writing and editing, though I'm too easily sidetracked into discussions and such, and every now and then I try to think of subjects (esp. obscure ones) that might not be in Wikipedia. While watching old videos with one daughter, I ran across a truncated version of Magical Mystery Tour which included Death Cab for Cutie. Despite the fact that it was British, and a joke, it's one of the better examples of real old-fashioned cabaret like you had in mid-century New York. I put it up there with the German cabaret scenes in Blue Angel. Of course I had to see if it was in Wikipedia. Best as always, Cecropia | Talk 07:17, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Pictures and such
I'll check the whole copyright thing, but me main problem is that whenever I upload an Image, it always ends up as little white square with a red cross in it. I can still access the file and put it in articals, but the image i want is never there, just the red cross. Any idea why? Cheers.

--Crestville 09:55, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The 2004 Presidential election hasn't happened yet. -Land1234567890

Thanks. -Land1234567890

Stupid talk link question
I notice you always have a direct link to your talk page next to your name (linking to your user page). I know the ~ macro but is there one for the talk page? Thanks in advance. --Ged 21:43, 18 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Personal Attacks
When you put effort into creating an informative and factually correct page it gets a little disheartening when some moron wiped it completely and replaces it with something that is completely wrong. Makes you wonder whether wikipedia is really worth it if all it turns out to be is the last persons incorrect opinion. Not much of a website!

--Cameron1 12:41, 19 Jul 2004 (GMT)

Kitchen
Hey Meelar, thanks for your numerous minor fixes. On the sociology: I didn't include too much of that on purpose for two reasons: Beecher's motivations can be seen as a forerunner of later emancipatory trends. The whole movement to apply Taylorist methods to the kitchen was (partly) driven by emancipatory goals. See the article on the Frankfurt kitchen for some mention of these influences and early and later (feminist) criticisms.
 * 1) There's so much to be said that it should go into a separate article, and
 * 2) I have no good, exhaustive sources for that topic.

Many of the later lasting developments came by a gradual process and high-profile proponents that influenced kitchen architecture after the late 1920s are rare (to my knowledge). The famous architects were mostly male and often emphasized novelty and theory (cf Colani's kitchen ball or Le Corbusier's Modulor kitchen (2.26m cubed)) over useability, and I doubt they actually ever cooked in their own contraptions! Their designs typically had no effect whatsoever on mainstream kitchen architecture. Advances in technology had a much greater impact.

Anyway, thanks for your support! Lupo 15:28, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Cheers!
Thanks for the welcome. I've only just started on Wikipedia so it's encouraging to hear from someone that's been doing it for awhile. I read that politics is your speciality so if you ever have any questions about Japanese or Australian politics then send them my way. --Sekizaru 20:18, 19 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Aurebesh
The site I got it from had no copyright information on it, so I'd assume that the image file was public domain. --Akula4211 16:30, Jul 20, 2004 (UTC)

Ok, I'll take it down - didn't know that - and possibly work on a file of my own to replace it with. --Akula4211 16:35, Jul 20, 2004 (UTC)

Car Donation
Hi Meelar, I put the original version of Car donation on VdF, I think we must have been working simultaneously, because I was trying to list it on VdF when your comment came up. Whatever!. Seeing your explanation I've voted to keep. As a Non-American I had never heard of it, and thought it was a 'used car' firm on the make. Very good re-write. Regards Giano 18:31, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

That was quick. I was just looking at you page on anti'terrorism to get the American view. Very neutral. Congratuations Giano 18:37, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hi :) Actually, i have been around Wikipedia for some time now, but i contribute more on a "oh, that's wrong/missing/interesting than a regular basis :) I will go through the pages you linked me to again. Wikipedia has a way of changing fast ;) I think i should have checked other spellings now, but that was kinda hard with that name ;) (Taumatawhakatangihangakoauauotamateapokaiwhenuakitanatahu for the others :). Thanks for the tip with the triple/quadruple tilde, by the way. I usually did that by hand.. RichiH 20:27, 20 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Annoying Vandal
I reverted the edits on your user page by the annoying vandal. Mike H 00:05, Jul 21, 2004 (UTC)

 * Thank you. I want to polish articles on supercouple like the one RickK helped me with: Cliff and Nina. That has to be my favorite article. Aside from Another World. Mike H 00:15, Jul 21, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome (bgoldenberg)
Thanks for the welcome. I have been editing Wikipedia for a few months but it was still nice to receive a welcome. Thanks again.

Thanks for the welcome (bgoldenberg)
Thanks for the welcome. I have been editing Wikipedia for a few months but it was still nice to receive a welcome. Thanks again. - Benjamin Goldenberg 06:19, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks from here too for welcome
Thanks for the encouraging words :) --Lone Isle 14:59, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the welcome. I have partially read the tutorial you suggested and have made a user page.

--Jambo 16:11, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thank you for the welcome
I will be loooking at the Tutorial very soon, and hope to make lots of contributions in the future. --Albertn Clarke 19:03, 21 Jul 2004 (UTC)

What If?
What if there is not actual copyright?

Ok then...
Where I got the images from was off of the Google Image search so i'll have to go back, find the image, and get the copyright?

Thanks!
Trying my best to work within the copyright restrictions...will keep trying - lots of fun! S t e e l e 01:43, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the Welcome!
I've used Wikipedia for research and recommended it to my students. Thought it time to give something back. It's starting to look like this could get addictive!

Vic 01:50, 22 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Another thank you!
Thanks for welcoming me; I guess its because I added to your Jack Ryan article. Wikipedia is awesome. And as a 46 year old, that's not a word I use lightly!

 * David Fell 13:14, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome and edit
Meelar- Thanks for the welcome, and I appreciate the edits you made to my Kevin McClory page, they gave me some idea of how to do it better next time!

 * User:rsp 18:14, Jul 22, 2004 (UTC)

Question about your recent edit to MoveOn.org
I'm curious why you removed the passage which says that the MoveOn Voter Fund is the same type of organization as the Kerry/Bush campaigns or the Democratic National Committee. In your edit comment, you say "this is kind of misleading." To the contrary, I don't think it is misleading at all. If you look at a list of prominent 527 organizations, MoveOn is listed along with various political campaigns. This is precisely why MoveOn set up the Voter Fund as a separate entity from its other components. A 527 is allowed, under U.S. tax laws, to engage in certain types of political activities that are not permitted for other organizations. MoveOn itself has been up front about the fact that it set up its own 527 for the purpose of engaging in political activities. Why do you think it is misleading to say this in the article?

 * Sheldon Rampton 03:31, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Welcome Appreciated
Many thands for the welcome, Meelar. Nice to know there's some sense of community here in the Wikipediasphere, as well as a lot of great information. Cheers!

kjfasimpaur 13:17, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Re: Yesterday's candidacy for featured status
I have fleshed the article out according to your suggestions on WP:FAC. What do you think now? Johnleemk | Talk 16:02, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hey thanks
YIPE! It scared the junk out of me when i refreshed the sandbox and a big gold bar came up saying i had a message and that "This page is for editing experiments.". Thought i did something wrong :-P. Thank you a ton for the welcome! Ajbperc 17:36, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thanks for the welcome. I have watched Wikipedia for a while now, and today I thought I probably should try to contribute. I hope I can add something useful to the community! Khalid 18:48, Jul 23, 2004 (UTC)

Hi Meelar
Thanks for the welcome. I have been using wiki for some time and have recently started contributing.

Keracim

Howdy
Meelar, Thanks for the advice about adding to an existing article vs. creating a related one. I did read the article for those coming from e2. I plan to read most of the help and intro stuff before I actually contribute/edit.

Best Regards, aeroMorph 03:51, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Hello
Thank you very much for your help. BTW i'm willing to help anyway i'm needed (translations es-en, en-es and some researching ;)). Tordek ar 23:01, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Treaty of Devol
Hi Meelar, I fixed up the Treaty of Devol article based on your comments on FAC...how does it look now? Anything else I should do? Adam Bishop 04:00, 25 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Since it seems to be the theme of this page...
Thanks for your welcome (back). :-) You must be busy welcoming newcomers....puts me to shame.  Thanks for your consistent dedication to leaving me little notes of greeting and gratitude -- though I may not always feel deserving, it is little things like this that keep me here despite my numerous other interests in the "real world".  I hope you realize that, as is evident from this page, a great many people have better experiences here because of your attitude and your kind and friendly words.  Even if we ignore your content additions (which are significant and excellent), your contribution to this site in simply making it a more welcoming and pleasant place is immeasurable (but assuredly great).  Thanks. Jwrosenzweig 17:43, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome
Thanks for the welcome. I've been browsing the site for a couple of months now, and decided to start contributing/editing last week. Looking forward to helping to develop this great online resource. I've always wished that more sites had an Edit this page button. :-) Andrew Maiman 02:29, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Nice!
I was not expecting a Welcome! Thanks for the tips. I hope I am doing things right. Thapthim 15:58, Jul 27, 2004 (UTC)

Ho hi thx
Nice! Thank you for the welcome. Been working for a while on DMOZ/ODP (french/philosophy) and have been advised to write for wikipedia. I'll see what I can do! Best of best. DGsu

I ask
Hi, thank you four your message. What means "# Feed:  rss atom" at the special pages?

Pèrez 20:20, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Vandalism?
Why do I get messages sent from you about me being a vandal? I have edited a Wikipedia page exactly once in the history of me using it, and it was a silly link. Was your message an error? I often receive messages saying I have to stop vandalising... All I do is read articles in here. I don't get it. :(

EDIT: I got your message. I have an account now. ;)

I get messages of Vandalism
But I havn't vandalized anything. I just come here to read articles but you keep telling me to stop vandalizing or I'll be blocked. Cut it out, please. If someone is vandalizing this site, its not my problem. If you can't tell one anonymous IP user apart from another, you shouldn't be sending messages to people unless you are sure of their guilt.

She's basically an idiot.205.188.116.9 22:05, 31 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * No. However there is a known bug that can direct a user to a talk page that is not their own.  -  Tεx  τ  urε  00:30, 1 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanks, and a Question
Yeah, don't blame you for changing that Media Conglomerate article, I was in terrible writing form that day. Anyways just wondering how it came about that you personally contacted me. Are you the only contactee? Or were you assigned me like a mentor system. If not I would suggest a sort of mentor system so newbies like me could have some guidance. I just don't know the protocols!

Thanks

-Windfinder

Big Problem With Categories
Sorry to bother you, but right now, whenever I access any categories they do not display their links. There is usually a blank screen between the title and the catergory's category links. Its possible this is just me, but it happens on all categories and is quite worrying. There doesn;t seem to be any mass vandalism, either. Could you check it out?

-Erolos 18:23, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Admin boilerplate
What a great idea, Meelar! I think I'll substitute your question for #6, since that seems to have turned into one of those "when was the last time you beat your wife, and do you regret it?" questions politicians always have to dance around. Cheers, Cecropia | Talk 19:58, 28 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Contibuting to Wikipedia Articles
Hi Meelar,

Thank you for the welcome and advice. Could you please advise me on the following concern of mine. I am new to this community and am still learning, but I am also respectful of others efforts, work and contributions to various articles and wikipedia sites that I am interested in. I have made efforts to contribute to one particular site that is close to my heart-Hawaii-and I felt out of fairness and clarity to the history and facts of my home, Hawaii, that I contribute to some facts and flesh out more of the history to inform people. After my efforts, someone, I believe it was Gerald "Jerry" Farinas because he erased my contributions to "Notable People of Hawaii", erased my demographic %'s and breakdowns of the various ethnic groups to and of Hawaii. He also erased what I felt were important facts about Hawaii's history. How can this be fair and just for one person to erase the efforts of another, as if it is his property? Is the Hawaii Article site on wikipedia his and his alone? It is the silencing anothers' voice and the wiping out the efforts of another. I don't understand how this can be when the premise of wikipedia is for people to be able to contribute. I believe in what is right, fair and truthful. I am dismayed that an internet encyclopedia would be allowed to omit facts, history and truthful contributions because someone doesn't allow another to participate.

Much thanks for your time and consideration, Ilikea

Thank you
Hi Meelar,

Really sorry to have troubled you, I didn't know who to write to. It was either you or DropDeadGorgias, and Gorgias has helped me in working on the Hapa Article site, which is also part of my life. I am hapa, my family is hapa and many of my friends are hapa. I am really concerned about bias, slant and articles not showing all the facts and truth. Of course it is quite hurtful and unfair to have one's efforts wiped out by another. I notice that anything to do with Hawaii, Hawaiians, history, words, facts etc. are going to have some of the same people contributing and editing as on the Hawaii article site. I am a bit concerned about any other efforts I make to contribute. I am part Hawaiian, many of my elders were full-blood Hawaiian and I did learn about that part of my heritage, even though I am hapa Hawaiian. If this does not stop I may be deterred from contributing to this site.

Thank you sincerely, Ilikea

Text of articles removed due to copyright restrictions Thank you for the information. Again, I'd welcome any help on Talk:Phil Gingrey, as well as the article, so we can write a truly NPOV article that reports the facts. If you'd like to participate, that's the best place to go. I'd appreciate any suggestions you might have over wording and what to include. Best, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 13:33, 2004 Jul 29 (UTC)

I haven't been on Wikipedia for a while; just got your reply to my message. My apologies for making an unwarranted assumption (bike path vs. cycle path) ! jaknouse 15:17, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

thanks, i come from the mexican electronic music scene and can contribute a lot in that area --Vate 15:48, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Vate
My vate entry has been deleted, although it was posted in the undeletion list :( This discourages me to contribute in wikipedia. The lesson or others: It doesnt mean it doesn exist if you don't know it --Vate 16:44, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

 * Vate, your re-creating of the article was out of process. It was deleted back in Novemeber of 2003. Proper process to restore an article is to list it on Votes for undeletion. Then, if concensus dictates that it should be restored, an admin will restore it. Since you decided to not follow this process, I deleted the article so as to restore correct process. - UtherSRG 16:53, 29 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Nice Majors!
I, too, am a double major in Economics and Political Science. I am just starting out here and love the concept. Right now I am doing a whole section on American Depositary Receipts, because they are a big part of what I do at work every day, but I plan to start putting in summaries of important legislation (there are quite a few red links for legislation on the SEC page. Hopefully it will be helpful to someone. Please feel free to comment on anything I write, because I would love the feedback.

Skyler 13:45, Jul 30, 2004 (UTC)

Featured article Constitution
Meelar, I blundered across the nomination, went to look, made some edits, and only then noticed it was you. That reminded me that I'd come across a recent book and wanted to tell you about, but that it had fallen out of my head. Oh well... The book is 1912, by Chace(?) and amplifies my point (in our earlier exchange) about the source of the political distortion we have been having in recent years.

Did you ever look up that Thucydides extract. I reread it a week or so ago, and it still gives me chills. Good luck with your papers, if you have any this summer, and good luck to us all in the election upcoming. Best wishes, ww 18:40, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * m, I've done an edit sweep and didn't notice any gross errors of fact. But then I don't keep a Constitutional History in my head. the main missing bit that I noticed was lack of context. Why is there a prohibitiion against importing slaves after such and such. Why are states with small pops given so much power? And so on. But that's not a descriptive hole for this sort of article. One can argue that this is heads down facts maam, just the facts. But there should be something about context on WP, is there? ww 20:32, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the Welcome Chief
MaxPower 20:12, 30 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Two items
1. I wanted to commend you for your exemplary following of fair use--justifying, listing sources, etc. I just used a DVD cover you uploaded as an example for another user.

2. The proper way to archive your talk is to create a subpage, not have it in the article space. For example, you coud use User talk:Dlloyd/archive 1. Just notify me (on my talk page, please?) and I'll perform the necessary moving and deletion. Thanks, [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 14:12, 2004 Aug 2 (UTC)

Meelar,

Thanks for the feedback !

If you could move my talk page for me I'd appreciate it. (And thanks for tidying up some of my articles too...).

Regards, DL Dlloyd 14:24, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the welcome
Lzydata 16:34, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Vertical Thanks
Ah! On this keyboard that key looks like an elongated colon, but it produces the solid vertical bar as you say. Many thanks. Ave atque vale! PedanticallySpeaking 17:24, Aug 13, 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Meelar/archive 6


text:
Serpent (instrument)

The serpent is a low-pitched early wind instrument in the brass family developed in the Renaissance era. It has a trombone-like mouthpiece, with tone holes and fingering like a woodwind instrument. It is named for its long, conical bore bent into a snakelike shape, and unlike most brass instruments is made from wood with an outer covering of leather. A distant ancestor of the tuba, the serpent is related to the cornett and was used for bass parts from the 17th to the early 19th centuries.

In the early 19th century, several upright variants were developed and used, until they were superseded first by the ophicleide and ultimately by the valved tuba. After almost entirely disappearing from orchestras, the serpent experienced a renewed interest in historically informed performance practice in the mid-20th century. Several contemporary works have been commissioned and composed, and serpents are again made by a small number of contemporary manufacturers. The sound of a serpent is somewhere between a bassoon and a euphonium, and it is typically played in a seated position, with the instrument resting upright between the player's knees.

Construction
Although closely related to the cornett, the serpent has thinner walls, a more conical bore, and no thumb-hole. The original serpent was typically built from hardwood, usually walnut or other tonewoods like maple, cherry, or pear, or sometimes softer woods like poplar (a very small number were made entirely from copper or brass). The whole instrument is assembled from several curved tubular wooden segments, each made by gluing two hollowed halves together. These segments are then glued and bound with an outer covering of leather. Sometimes the instrument is made from bonding two S-shaped halves, each carved from a single large piece of wood.

The instrument uses a mouthpiece about the same size as a tenor trombone mouthpiece, originally made from ivory, horn or wood, which fits into the bocal or crook, a small length of brass tubing that emerges from the top wooden segment.

The serpent has six tone holes, in two groups of three, fingered by each hand. It is difficult to play the instrument with correct intonation, due in large part to the positions of the tone holes. They were arranged largely to be accessible to the player's fingers, rather than in acoustically correct positions, which would have placed some of them out of reach. While early serpents were keyless, later instruments added keys for additional holes out of reach of the fingers to improve intonation, and extend range.

Modern replicas are made by several specialist instrument makers, employing acoustic analysis and modern fabrication materials and techniques to further improve the serpent's intonation. Some of these techniques include use of modern composite materials and polymers, 3D printing, and changing the placement of tone holes. Swiss serpent maker Stephan Berger in collaboration with French jazz musician Michel Godard has developed an improved serpent based on studying well-preserved museum instruments, and also makes a lightweight model from carbon fibre. English serpent player and musicologist Clifford Bevan remarks that Berger's instruments are much improved, finally allowing players to approach the serpent "in partnership rather than in combat".

Sizes
The majority of surviving specimens in museums and private collections were built in 8′ C, thus having a total tubing length of about 8 feet. A few slightly smaller specimens were built in D, and military serpents could sometimes vary in pitch between D♭ and B♭.

Soprano serpent
A soprano serpent, or, first appeared in the 1980s; there is no repertoire or other evidence of their historical existence. Built an octave higher than a serpent in 4′ C, it was first made as a novelty instrument by English early music specialist and instrument maker Christopher Monk.

Contrabass serpent
The contrabass serpent, nicknamed the and built in 16′ C one octave below the serpent, was an English invention of the mid-19th century with no historical repertoire. The prototype instrument was built c. 1840 by Joseph and Richard Wood in Huddersfield as a double-sized English military serpent, and survives in the University of Edinburgh museum collection. During the serpent's modern revival, two more contrabass serpents were built in the 1990s by Christopher Monk's workshop. Based on the original serpent ordinaire form, they were called "George" and "George II". The first, commissioned by musicologist and serpent player Philip Palmer, is now owned by American trombonist and serpent player Douglas Yeo and features in some of his serpent recordings.

History
There is little direct material or documentary evidence for the exact origin of the serpent. French historian Jean Lebeuf claimed in his 1743 work Mémoires Concernant l'Histoire Ecclésiastique et Civile d’Auxerre that the serpent was invented in 1590 by Edmé Guillaume, a clergyman in Auxerre, France. Although this account is often accepted, some scholars suppose instead that the serpent evolved from the large, S-shaped bass cornetts that were in use in Italy in the 16th century. It was certainly used in France since the early 17th century to strengthen the cantus firmus and bass voices of choirs in plainchant. This original traditional serpent was known as the serpent ordinaire or serpent d'église. Around the middle of the 18th century, the serpent began to appear in chamber ensembles, and later in orchestras. Mozart used two serpents in the orchestra for his 1771 opera Ascanio in Alba.

Military serpents
Towards the end of the 18th century, the increased popularity of the serpent in military bands drove the subsequent development of the instrument to accommodate marching or mounted players. In England, a distinct military serpent was developed which had a more compact shape with tighter curves, added extra keys to improve its intonation, and metal braces between the bends to increase its rigidity and durability. In France around the same time several makers produced a serpent militaire initially developed by Piffault (by whose name they are also known) that arranges the tubing vertically with an upward turned bell, reminiscent of a tenor saxophone.

Upright serpents and bass horns
Several vertical configurations of the serpent, generally known as upright serpents (serpent droit) or bass horns, were developed in the early 19th century. Retaining the same six tone holes and fingering of the original serpent, these instruments resemble the bassoon, with jointed straight tubes that fit into a short U-shaped butt joint, and an upward-pointing bell.

Basson russe
Among the first of the upright serpents to appear was the basson russe,, although it was neither Russian nor a bassoon. The name is possibly a corruption of basson prusse since they were taken up by the Prussian army bands of the time. These instruments were built mostly in Lyon and often had the buccin-style decorative zoomorphic bells popular in France at the time, shaped and painted like a dragon or serpent head. Appearing around the same time in military bands was the serpent à pavillon which had a normal brass instrument bell, similar in flare to the later ophicleide.

English bass horn
The English bass horn, developed by French musician and inventor Louis Alexandre Frichot in London in 1799, had an all-metal V-shaped construction, described by German composer Felix Mendelssohn as resembling a watering can. He admired its sound however, and wrote for the instrument in several of his works, including his fifth symphony and the overture to A Midsummer Night's Dream. The bass horn was popular in civic and military bands in Britain and Ireland, and also spread back into orchestras in Europe, where it influenced the inventors of both the ophicleide and later the Baß-Tuba.

Early cimbasso
The serpent appears as serpentone in early 19th century Italian operatic scores by composers such as Spontini, Rossini, and Bellini. In Italy it was replaced by the cimbasso, a loose term that referred to several instruments; initially an upright serpent similar to the basson russe, then the ophicleide, early forms of valved tuba (pelittone, bombardone), and finally by the time of Verdi's opera Otello (1887), a valve contrabass trombone.

Other upright serpents
In Paris in 1823, Forveille invented his eponymous serpent Forveille, an upright serpent with an enlarged bell section influenced by the (then newly invented) ophicleide. It is distinguished by being made from wood, brass tubing being used only for the leadpipe and first bend. It became popular in bands for its improved intonation and sound quality. In 1828 Jean-Baptiste Coëffet patented his ophimonocleide ("snake with one key"), one of the last forms of the upright serpent. It solved a perennial problem of the serpent, its difficult and indistinct B♮ notes. The instrument is built a semitone lower in B♮ and adds a large open tone hole that keeps the instrument in C until its key is pressed, closing the tone hole and producing a clear and resonant B♮.

Contemporary revival
The era of upright serpents was brief, spanning the first half of the 19th century from their invention to their replacement by the ophicleide and subsequent valved brass instruments. German opera composer Richard Wagner used a serpent as a third bassoon in his 1840 opera Rienzi, but by the 1869 première of his Der Ring des Nibelungen cycle he was writing his lowest brass parts for tuba and contrabass trombone. Consequently, the serpent had all but disappeared from ensembles by 1900.

The serpent has enjoyed a modern revival of interest and manufacture since the mid-20th century. Christopher Monk began building his own replica cornetts and serpents and playing them in historically informed performances. In 1968 he and a colleague devised a method of constructing them inexpensively from a composite wood-resin material, which helped to raise interest in these instruments and increase their availability. In 1976 he established the London Serpent Trio with English players Andrew van der Beek and Alan Lumsden, performing new works and historical arrangements, both serious and whimsical, throughout Europe and North America. At the same time in France, historical instrument specialist Bernard Fourtet and jazz musician Michel Godard began promoting use of the serpent and established an academy for young serpent players.

Range and performance
There is no real standard for the serpent's range, which varies according to the instrument and the player, but it typically covers the three octaves from C$2$ two octaves below middle C to C$5$. Proficient players can also extend the range downwards to A1 or even F1 by fingering the low C note with all holes covered, and "lipping" down with the embouchure.

Repertoire

Serpents were originally used as an instrument to accompany church choral music, particularly in France. For this purpose, very little was specifically written for the serpent per se; the serpent player would simply play the cantus firmus, or bass line. The serpent began to be called for in orchestras by opera composers in the mid-to-late 18th century, and their subsequent adoption in military bands prompted the publication of several method books, fingering charts and etudes, including duets for student and teacher.

Among the serpent's first appearances in orchestral scores is George Frideric Handel's Music for the Royal Fireworks, although he later removed it. Mozart included it in his 1771 opera Ascanio in Alba, and Hector Berlioz included serpent and ophicleide in the early revisions of his Symphonie fantastique. Niccolò Paganini's Violin Concerto No. 2 in B Minor “La Campanella” is scored for serpentone, and Richard Wagner's early opera Rienzi calls for serpent.

After disappearing almost entirely, the serpent began to reappear in the mid-20th century, in film scores and new period instrument chamber ensembles. American film composer Bernard Herrmann used a serpent in the scores of White Witch Doctor (1953) and Journey to the Center of the Earth (1959), as did Jerry Goldsmith in his score for Alien (1979).

In jazz music, French musician and tubist Michel Godard has incorporated the serpent into his work.

Modern works for the instrument include a concerto for serpent and orchestra by English composer Simon Proctor, commissioned in 1987 to mark the first International Serpent Festival in South Carolina, where it was premièred by London Serpent Trio member Alan Lumsden in 1989. Also premièred at the festival was comic composer Peter Schickele's P.D.Q. Bach piece "O Serpent" written for the London Serpent Trio and an ensemble of vocalists. Douglas Yeo premièred "Temptation" for serpent and string quartet, written by his Boston Symphony Orchestra colleague, trombonist and composer Norman Bolter, at the 1999 International Trombone Festival in Potsdam, New York. Yeo also premièred a serpent concerto in 2008 by American composer Gordon W. Bowie entitled "Old Dances in New Shoes". Italian composer Luigi Morleo wrote "Diversità: NO LIMIT", a concerto for serpent and strings, which premièred in Monopoli, Italy in 2012.

Players

 * Clifford Bevan, musicologist, member of the London Serpent Trio
 * Bernard Fourtet, French early music specialist
 * Michel Godard, jazz musician, tubist, serpent player
 * Phil Humphries, London Serpent Trio, New London Consort
 * Alan Lumsden, London Serpent Trio
 * Andrew van der Beek, London Serpent Trio
 * Steve Wick, tubist, professor of Serpent at Royal Academy of Music, London Serpent Trio
 * Douglas Yeo, Boston Symphony Orchestra (retired), bass trombonist, serpent and ophicleide player

In popular culture

 * The prop used for the titular horn in the 1956 British film The Case of the Mukkinese Battle-Horn was based on a serpent.

 * A prop was used in the 1999 film of A Christmas Carol starring Patrick Stewart. It was featured in the scene during Fezziwig’s Christmas party.

 * Serpents appear in the music video for the 2000 single "Frontier Psychiatrist" from the album Since I Left You by Australian group The Avalanches.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Serpent (instrument)


text:
Aleksandr Laveykin

Aleksandr Ivanovich Laveykin (Александр Иванович Лавейкин; born April 21, 1951 ) is a retired Soviet cosmonaut.

Biography
Born in Moscow, Laveykin was selected as a cosmonaut on December 1, 1978. He flew on one spaceflight, for the first part of the long duration expedition Mir EO-2. He flew as a flight engineer, and was both launched and landed with the spacecraft Soyuz TM-2. He spent 174 days 3 hours 25 minutes in space. Married with one child, Laveykin retired on March 28, 1994.

Launched in February 1987, his spaceflight was intended to last until December 1987, but doctors on the ground determined that he was having minor heart irregularities. For this reason, in July he was replaced by Soviet cosmonaut Aleksandr Pavlovich Aleksandrov, who stayed on Mir to the end of the expedition in December.

Awards

 * Hero of the Soviet Union
 * Pilot-Cosmonaut of the USSR
 * Order of Lenin and the Russian Federation Medal "For Merit in Space Exploration"

title: Aleksandr Laveykin


text:
Leonid Kizim

Leonid Denisovich Kizim (Леонид Денисович Кизим; 5 August 1941 – 14 June 2010) was a Soviet cosmonaut.

Biography
Kizim was born in Krasnyi Lyman, Donetsk Oblast, Soviet Union (now Lyman, Ukraine). He graduated from Higher Air Force School in 1975; and served as a test pilot in the Soviet Air Force. He was selected as a cosmonaut on October 23, 1965. Kizim flew as Commander on Soyuz T-3, Soyuz T-10 and Soyuz T-15, and also served as backup commander for Soyuz T-2. All together he spent 374 days 17 hours 56 minutes in space. On Soyuz T-15, he was part of the only crew to visit two space stations on one spaceflight (Mir and Salyut 7). He later served as Deputy Director Satellite Control-Center of the Russian Ministry of Defense; after May 1995 he was Director of the Military Engineering Academy of Aeronautics and Astronautics in St. Petersburg.

He left the cosmonaut program on June 13, 1987, but remained in the Soviet Air Force, and later the Russian Air Force. In 1993, he was placed in charge of the A.F. Mozhaysky Military-Space Academy. He held that position until he retired from the Russian Air Force on September 10, 2001, at the rank of Colonel General.

Kizim died on June 14, 2010. He left a wife and two children. Leonid Kizim was married with two children.

Awards
He was awarded: Foreign awards:
 * Twice Hero of the Soviet Union (December 10, 1980 and October 2, 1984);
 * Pilot-Cosmonaut of the USSR
 * Order of Honour
 * Order of Friendship
 * Three Orders of Lenin
 * Medal "For the Development of Virgin Lands"
 * Order of Sukhbaatar (Mongolia);
 * Medal "30 Years of Victory over Japan's Militarists" (Mongolia);
 * Medal "60 Years of the Mongolian People's Revolution";
 * Knight of the Legion of Honour (France);
 * Kirti Chakra (India);
 * Order of Merit (Ukraine).

title: Leonid Kizim


text:
Live Peace in Toronto 1969

Live Peace in Toronto 1969 is a live album by the Plastic Ono Band, released in December 1969 on Apple Records. Recorded at the Toronto Rock and Roll Revival festival, it was the first live album released by any member of the Beatles separately or together. John Lennon and his wife Yoko Ono received a phone call from the festival's promoters John Brower and Kenny Walker, and then assembled a band on very short notice for the festival, which was due to start the following day. The band included Eric Clapton, Klaus Voormann, and drummer Alan White. The group flew from London, and had brief unamplified rehearsals on the plane before appearing on the stage to perform several songs; one of which, "Cold Turkey", was first performed live at the festival. After returning home, Lennon mixed the album in a day.

The album peaked at number 10 on the Billboard 200 and was certified a gold album by the RIAA, representing 1,000,000 copies in sales. The album did not chart in the UK. The original LP included a 13-month 1970 calendar. A video of several performances, not just the Plastic Ono Band's set, was released. Since its first release, the album has been reissued a number of times.

Background
Toronto rock promoters John Brower and Kenny Walker organised a festival held at CNE Bandshell on 13 September 1969, around the notion of a revival of rock and roll stars from the 1950s, booking Chuck Berry, Little Richard, Jerry Lee Lewis, Fats Domino, Bo Diddley, and Gene Vincent. They also booked more modern acts such as Alice Cooper, Chicago, and the Doors.

On 12 September, Brower contacted Lennon, who was still a member of the Beatles, to ask him to be the master of ceremonies for the festival. Instead, Lennon offered to perform at the show with a new group, the Plastic Ono Band. " Brower readily agreed, but since Lennon did not actually have a new group, he quickly began making phone calls to potential members to accompany himself and Yoko Ono. He initially approached Beatles band-mate George Harrison to play lead guitar, but Harrison declined, so Lennon turned to Eric Clapton, who had previously performed with Lennon in the one-off super group, the Dirty Mac. Bassist Klaus Voormann and drummer Alan White soon agreed to perform, along with their assistants, Anthony Fawcett, Terry Doran, and Jill and Dan Richter. Voormann was a long-time friend of Lennon, but White, who was a respected session musician in London but did not know Lennon personally, initially thought that someone was prank calling him and only believed that the real John Lennon was on the phone when he called a second time.

The group was scheduled to fly to Toronto on 12 September, the day before the concert, but Lennon, Ono, and Clapton were late to arrive at the airport. Lennon had talked to Clapton's management, but Clapton himself did not yet know that Lennon had invited him to perform and was not even aware of the concert. Brower managed to reach Clapton personally and told him to contact Lennon and Ono, who were still in bed. Clapton said he got "a phone call on the day we were to leave and he said that someone had asked him to do that concert and it was that night! So I had to make the airport in an hour." The group had two quick rehearsals before appearing on stage. One was during the transatlantic flight from London to Toronto, though they could not hear the music very well since they were playing unplugged electric instruments. They had another at the concert venue shortly before appearing on stage. Lennon later said that the group "didn't know what to play" since they had not previously performed together, and they eventually settled on a set list consisting of older rock and roll standards, three Lennon-penned Beatle and solo songs, and two longer experimental songs featuring Ono.

Though preparations for the show were rushed and chaotic, Lennon later said that he gained the confidence to leave the Beatles during those few days. Lennon mentioned this to Clapton at the time, and upon returning to London, he privately told Beatles' manager Allen Klein.

Recording
The group played eight songs to a crowd of 20,000 people. Before the start of the Plastic Ono Band's performance, they were introduced by Kim Fowley, and Lennon said to the crowd that the group were going to play only songs that they actually knew. They performed the Beatles' "Yer Blues", because Clapton had performed it with Lennon for The Rolling Stones Rock and Roll Circus, and his two solo songs, "Give Peace a Chance" and "Cold Turkey", the latter of which had its premiere at the festival. "Cold Turkey", presented as "the newest song that John wrote" by Ono, had Lennon reading the lyrics off a clip-board. Ono selected a song that was to be B-side of "Cold Turkey," "Don't Worry Kyoko (Mummy's Only Looking for Her Hand in the Snow)", which also had its premiere at the festival. Shortly before the band went into "Don't Worry Kyoko", Lennon announced that Ono was "gonna do her thing all over you". The band closed with an electric version of the Wedding Album track "John John (Let's Hope for Peace)", an extended experimental number consisting of her screaming the title repeatedly to the feedback of the electric guitars. Towards the end of Ono's performance, the audience began to boo and whistle, and the band departed the stage leaving their guitars and bass to resonate until Mal Evans turned off the amplifiers. With their stage remarks, Lennon and Ono linked their appearance there to their ongoing campaign for peace.

Lennon went to Abbey Road Studios on 25 September 1969 to mix the album from their eight-track recordings. While at the session, Lennon finished the stereo master for the album, although he did go back on 20 October to re-do the "Don't Worry Kyoko" stereo master, removing the majority of Ono's vocals from his songs and Clapton's backing vocals. The album is technically a soundtrack recording, being part of the audio portion of the documentary film being made of the festival by D.A. Pennebaker, later released as Sweet Toronto. Lennon and Ono made a deal with Pennebaker to license their portion of the show for record, in exchange for rights to include their appearance. According to the Beatles Monthly, due to the adverse reaction to Ono's performance, Pennebaker removed the segments with Lennon and Ono after limited screenings of the film, later re-edited as Keep on Rockin'. Showtime ultimately presented the performance in 1989, and the full movie appeared later on home video and DVD.

Release and aftermath
The album, released on the same day in both the UK and US, failed to chart in the UK but peaked at number 10 in the US. It was released to quash any bootleg versions that Lennon was sure would leak onto the market. US editions of the album wrongly stated that the album was recorded in England. The album came with a 13-month calendar that had photos, poems and songs in it, from Lennon's 1964 book In His Own Write, his 1965 book A Spaniard in the Works, and Ono's 1964 book Grapefruit. In the US, Capitol was reluctant at first to issue the album, after the commercial failures of Lennon's and Ono's experimental albums. Lennon recalled in an interview in December 1980 that he had to persuade Capitol to distribute the album: "They said 'This is garbage, we're not going to put it out with her screaming on one side and you doing this sort of live stuff.' And they refused to put it out. But we finally persuaded them that ... people might buy this." In an interview with Rolling Stone, Lennon said that Capitol "were on the [Paul] McCartney bandwagon, which they were on, and they thought that I was just an idiot pissing about with a Japanese broad and the music we were making, like Toronto, they didn't want to put out, because they didn't like that."

Criticism was directed at side two of the LP, the side consisting entirely of two Yoko Ono songs. In a retrospective assessment, Richard Ginell of AllMusic remarks: "Side two, alas, was devoted entirely to Ono's wailing, pitchless, brainless, banshee vocalizing on "Don't Worry Kyoko" and "John John (Let's Hope for Peace)" – the former backed with plodding rock rhythms and the latter with feedback. No wonder you see many used copies of the LP with worn A-sides and clean, unplayed B-sides – and Yoko's "art" is just as irritating today as it was in 1969. But in those days, if you wanted John you had to take the whole package."

In contrast, fellow musicians over the years remarked how Yoko Ono's half was a lot more inspirational and groundbreaking than the first half. Iggy Pop praised Yoko's part as "the part that stands out. The rest of it‘s just kinda pedestrian." Perry Farrell of Jane's Addiction echoed similar feelings, stating that Ono's sound experimentations were a cornerstone of his musical education.

Lennon later said he "couldn't remember any of the words but it didn't matter—I just made them all up and we made a great wonderful noise." Carl Perkins said to Lennon after the show that he was "so beautiful you made me cry." A bootleg album of the concert appeared, under the title JL-YO-EC, thanks to an audience recording, which was released about the same time as the official album.

After Lennon's death, the album, along with seven other Lennon albums, was reissued by EMI as part of a box set released in the UK on 15 June 1981. The album was reissued in the US in 1982, by Capitol, and again in 1986. The album was originally scheduled to appear on CD for the first time in June 1989, but the plan was scrapped. Ono, with the help of Rob Stevens from Quad Recording, supervised a remixing of Live Peace in Toronto 1969 for its compact disc issue, released on 1 May 1995. Two of the remixed tracks feature a variation in Ono's vocals: while "Dizzy Miss Lizzy" has additional backing vocals from Ono, "Money" has fewer backing vocals from Ono. The CD booklet included a 1995 calendar, mimicking the original release. The album is also available from the audiophile label Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab, utilizing the same remix. The booklet for the 2006 Mobile Fidelity release also included a current calendar.

Track listing
Side one
 * 1) "Blue Suede Shoes" (Carl Perkins) – 3:50
 * 2) "Money (That's What I Want)" (Janie Bradford, Berry Gordy) – 3:25
 * 3) "Dizzy, Miss Lizzy" (Larry Williams) – 3:24
 * 4) "Yer Blues" (John Lennon, Paul McCartney) – 4:12
 * 5) "Cold Turkey" (Lennon) – 3:34
 * 6) "Give Peace a Chance" (Lennon, previously Lennon-McCartney) – 3:41

Side two
 * 1) "Don't Worry Kyoko (Mummy's Only Looking for Her Hand in the Snow)" (Yoko Ono) – 4:48
 * 2) "John John (Let's Hope for Peace)" (Ono) – 12:38

Personnel

 * John Lennon – lead vocals, rhythm guitar, lead guitar
 * Yoko Ono – wind, presence, backing vocals, lead vocal, art
 * Eric Clapton – lead guitar, backing vocals
 * Klaus Voormann – bass
 * Alan White – drums
 * Kim Fowley – spoken introduction

title: Live Peace in Toronto 1969


text:
Talk:The Carpetbaggers

Untitled
Quote: "Like many of Robbins' other novels, The Carpetbaggers combined good writing, a strong story, and numerous more-or-less-gratuitous scenes of explicit sex. The sex scenes were at the extreme outer boundaries of acceptability for a mainstream novel at its time of publication; The Carpetbaggers was probably the first New York Times bestseller to include scenes in which characters engage in fellatio." That is POV. [[User:Mike Storm|Mike ∞ Storm]] 20:47, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I'm not clear on whether you feel that
 * the description is inaccurate (which I would dispute);
 * the description is biased, in that it gives too much weight to the sex/profanity/shock aspects of the book and not enough to its literary merits;
 * the description is unsubstantiated and unreferenced. This is true, and yes, it is a problem, and I intend to work on it as time permits. I need to find some reviews and comments on it that are contemporary with the book.

Meanwhile, just to show that my opinions are not solely my own, I note these remarks from the eleven Amazon reader reviews of the book. I may try to work some of this into the article in lieu of stating my own opinions, if I can't find anything better. For now, I'll leave this material here on the Talk page:

Five suggest that it is not of serious value:
 * "it may be classic trash . . . but it's still trash."
 * "Not my typical brand of trash, but I liked it"
 * "The Carpetbaggers may not be great literature [but] it is a great read."
 * "Pop fiction like this is like candy. It does not stimulate great or exciting thought but it sure is fun."
 * "It's pure entertainment..."

However, four suggest that it has more than entertainment value:
 * "The writer takes you through the realities in life. Thought-provoking."
 * "This is a book that sooner or later everyone should read. It represents the change in the literary paradigm that has given the paperback world its direction for the last 40 years."
 * "One does not so much as read it but lives the lives of these characters if only for a little while."
 * "No doubt, one of the greatest books writen in this century. Every man and woman in this world have a Jonas Cord and a Rina Marlowe somewhere in them...Mr.Robbins you will be remembered forever for giving us Jonas Cord" (No, I can't tell whether this was written tongue-in-cheek).

Four refer to its use of what was for its time shockingly explicit sex and profanity:
 * "Until I read Hollywoodland Kingpin, I thought this was the most profane book of them all"
 * "...the scintilating erotica that Harold Robbins got us hooked on"
 * "tremendous fun in the vein of Sheldon's "Master of the Game" or Archer's "Kane and Abel," but there's a lot more sex, violence and language in this one."
 * "Robbins has one foul mouth..."

Three suggest that the sex is gratuitous:
 * "If you can make it through the sadly desperate attempts to work sex into what is otherwise a good story"
 * "it seemed to be the same thing over and over again--business deal, gratuitous sex scene, business deal, gratuitous sex scene"
 * "racy passages" (I'm interpreting the use of the word "passages" to mean that they seem to be have been inserted rather than being an integral part of an erotic or romantic story)

Seven suggest that Robbins is a compelling storyteller:
 * "I have to admit, Robbins is a great story teller"
 * "This is a fascinating story told by a master storyteller"
 * "the story is just as good as it was in the early 1960's"
 * "It's pure entertainment, with a page-flipping pace and an excellent story. This was a monster bestseller in the early 1960s and you'll see why after Robbins hooks you on page one."
 * "Robbins is a very good storyteller"
 * "Harold Robbins, love him or hate him you cannot deny that he was a master storyteller."
 * "The book is a good read"

TV Guide's review of the movie says "The Carpetbaggers is first-rate trash--and trash of so high a caliber is not easy to find.... By today's standards, this movie is about as mild as typical Friday-night television fare, but it was hot stuff in its day."

The tagline for the movie was "This is adult entertainment," showing that the movie was promoted as "hot stuff." [[User:dpbsmith|dpbsmith (talk)]]

 * I'm assuming that you are citing movie critics' reviews. Erm... isn't it a little obvious that those reviews are opinions? Wikipedia is about facts, not opinions. And furthermore, if you must include quotes, attribute those quotes, otherwise you might have just made them up. Also, please sign your name after you post by inserting four tildes ( ~ ). [[User:Mike Storm|Mike ∞ Storm]] 18:07, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * No, as noted above most of them are from Amazon reader reviews. (However, those movie reviews I was able to find are also in good accord with my assertions). As such, they are easily verifiable, although the persons who posted them are not easily identifiable and not particularly authoritative. As for opinions, Npov does not mean absence of opinion. It rather means "assert facts, including facts about opinions--but don't assert opinions themselves." Thus, the above discussion is an assertion that Amazon readers who have chosen to post reader reviews hold certain opinion about Robbins.

But you still haven't answered my question. Which are your objections:

[[User:dpbsmith|dpbsmith (talk)]] 19:49, 5 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * the description is inaccurate;
 * the description is biased, in that it gives too much weight to the sex/profanity/shock aspects of the book and not enough to its literary merits;
 * the description is unsubstantiated and unreferenced. As noted, I acknowledge this and plan to work on it.
 * (or something else)

Request for discussion leading to resolution
It is hard to write anything meaningful about literary topics without presenting material that cannot be fully objective; the best that can be done is to synthesize consensus views, substantiate them, and fairly present opposing views.

The original article contained this sentence, to which User:Mike Storm objected.

 * "Like many of Robbins' other novels, The Carpetbaggers combined good writing, a strong story, and numerous more-or-less-gratuitous scenes of explicit sex. The sex scenes were at the extreme outer boundaries of acceptability for a mainstream novel at its time of publication; The Carpetbaggers was probably the first New York Times bestseller to include scenes in which characters engage in fellatio."

Since Mike didn't articulate his objections very well, I have to guess. There are two likely possibilities. The sentence makes a number of assertions. I don't honestly believe that the truth of these assertions is seriously disputed by anyone familiar with the book or its history. Therefore the basis of the objection could be:

 * I didn't substantiate the assertions
 * The paragraph is out of balance and dwells too much on the sex scenes.

I've now written a great deal more. For the time being I've left out the claims that it has "good writing" and "a strong story" until I can substantiate these by references to contemporary reviews, etc. I have made the point about the book's sex scenes by quoting a 1961 New York Times review of the book, and have tried to put it into context in a section about the sexual revolution. The book was regarded as borderline-pornographic at the time and this is a relevant feature of the book. On the one hand, you had the books that landed into court—Lady Chatterley, Memoirs of Hecate County, Tropic of Cancer, Fanny Hill. On the other hand, you had the books that almost landed in court: Butterfield 8, Peyton Place, The Carpetbaggers, The Story of O. The Carpetbaggers was a famous example of the latter category.

I'd appreciate comments here and I'd appreciate it if someone could see their way to removing the notice, or make constructive suggestions on things that could be done to make the article neutral without totally removing important things that ought to be said about the book. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 12:39, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Personally, I think the article is a fine one, and very judicious about the book. I read it 40 years ago, when it came it, and it was, just as you said, exciting, fun, page-turning trash.  Sexy for the time, of course, just borderline publishable.  Peyton Place had had a cunnilingus scene (on a pregnant woman yet), in 56 or 57, but fellatio hadn't yet gone mainstream.  Rabbit, Run referred to it a couple of years later.... Anyway, it seems to me that it is a perfectly NPOV article and I really can't see what the objection is to it.... Hayford Peirce 17:57, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

NPOV dispute: summary and current status
On August 2nd, Mike Storm placed an notice on the page, with this comment:

 * Quote: "Like many of Robbins' other novels, The Carpetbaggers combined good writing, a strong story, and numerous more-or-less-gratuitous scenes of explicit sex. The sex scenes were at the extreme outer boundaries of acceptability for a mainstream novel at its time of publication; The Carpetbaggers was probably the first New York Times bestseller to include scenes in which characters engage in fellatio." That is POV. [[User:Mike Storm|Mike ∞ Storm]] 20:47, 2 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Over the next couple of weeks, the article was enlarged and expanded, mostly by me, and, at the same time, I tried to address Mike's objections. In particular, I thought I had removed the references to "good writing and a strong story," and that I had provided NPOV material on how its sex scenes related to contemporary mores at its time of publication.

In response to a request for discussion, Hayford Peirce expressed a generally favorable opinion and did not note any NPOV issues (see above).

On August 16th, I asked Mike if he could see his way to removing the tag. He removed, then reinserted it. In response to my queries, his last reply was:

 * ...what I care about is you asserting your own opinion about the author's writing style. You're misinterpreting my complaint. By the way, how is the consensus opinion if the book a "good story and strong plot," when you cited the New York Times review of the book as saying that it was terrible? The "consensus" opinion seems to be more like your opinion. [[User:Mike Storm|Mike ∞ Storm]] 16:01, 16 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I am puzzled by this comment which I don't understand and am not sure how to address, as I don't see where in the current article I am "asserting my own opinion about the author's writing style." [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 16:35, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm just baffled. Where is the NPOV that Mike Storm apparently refers to?  I've just reread the entire article and I can't find a hint of it.  I wish he'd spell it out for us one more time, with some exact quotes. Hayford Peirce 16:47, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I removed the NPOV notice. Should Mike Storm wish to re-apply it, he must note here why. The latest version doesn't seem to have POV problems. Pcb21| Pete 23:15, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks. Just a caution to other contributors. I didn't like staring at that notice, and it's a relief to have it gone, but if anyone puts it back let's not be in any hurry to remove it. (Or vice versa). Me, I want to keep tinkering with this article myself, and I'd rather not have a silly revert war over the notice that might end up with the page being protected. Of course anyone who inserts or removes an  notice should give reasons here, and in an ideal world we might discuss them here before inserting or removing a notice, or edit the article to add balance in places that need it.  It is very hard to say anything meaningful or useful about a literary work without getting into iffy areas. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 12:49, 19 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * For what it's worth, discussions of literature are always going to involve some assessment and some valuative language. The usual way to avoid such opinions is to use passive or attribution ("it was considered" or "TV Guide says"), but I don't think there is any POV in saying that the writing is "good."  "Good" is very light weight.  I can think of one way out, since it seems to be a bone of contention, and that's to say, "Writing that put it ahead of other genre fiction" or "Strong plot and action."  It's pretty indisputable that Robbins has strong plotting and action.  Sales figures alone will tell you empirically that he did, and the reviews saying so would be pretty darned numerous.  In fact, I'll bet that the book jacket would have about a dozen.  At a certain point, adjectives like this are just plain justified.  Geogre 13:21, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Robbins is always described as a "storyteller." Typical blurb copy for a Robbins book was usually something like "the new blockbuster from the master storyteller." I or somebody else can insert that with proper attribution sometime. Unfortunately my paperback copy of "The Carpetbaggers" came out at the same time as the movie Nevada Smith and devotes all of its promotional space on the cover to the movie, and oddly enough there are no reviews quoted. The important point—that the book is, dare I say "surprisingly," well-written—is already made now by the quotation from the New York Times review that says "In the sections in which he avoids the lurid, he writes graphically and touchingly; on these pages, his dialogue is moving and his people have the warmth of life." [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 14:28, 2 Sep 2004 (UTC)

there should be an article about the movie too
this is a pretty fameous movie--Ezzex (talk) 23:14, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

"Artifact of the sexual revolution"
Lots of sexual scenes —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.155.26.4 (talk) 00:35, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

I've edited this section to remove the text in bold. Previously we had:

On the second page of the novel, as aviator Jonas Cord approaches the landing strip of his father's explosives factory, we read: "The black roof of the plant lay on the white sand like a girl on the white sheets of a bed, the dark pubic patch of her whispering its invitation into the dimness of the night." In 1961, this was explosive indeed. The book contains language in comparison to which Lawrence's talk of "bottoms" and "threading [forget-me-nots] in the hair at the root of his belly" seems practically prudish. The Carpetbaggers was probably the first New York Times bestseller to include scenes of fellatio.

Rather misleading and disingenuous in selectiveness of quotes, given some alternative choice cuts from Lady Chatterley's Lover...

She wanted me, and made no bones about it. And I was as pleased as punch. That was what I wanted: a woman who wanted me to fuck her. So I fucked her like a good un.

Ay, an' tha comes up smilin'.---Ax 'er then! Ax lady Jane! Say: Lift up your heads, O ye gates, that the king of glory may come in. Ay, th' cheek on thee! Cunt, that's what tha're after. Tell lady Jane tha wants cunt. John Thomas, an' th' cunt O' lady Jane!---'

Ahem. Paddyboot (talk) 08:07, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Title
Any light on the title -  why is it called The Carpetbaggers? 86.183.206.77 (talk) 12:40, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

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Everything except the plot
This article explains who the characters are, but it doesn't summarise the story. Valetude (talk) 17:57, 13 July 2019 (UTC)

Nothing but original research and opinion
The entire article consists of nothing but original research and personal opinion. There is only one citation and that is merely to confirm the definition of the word carpetbagger. This is a particularly acute and egregious example of an article that has gone unreferenced for 16 years. — O'Dea (talk) 20:40, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:The Carpetbaggers


text:
Shawn Crawford

Shawn Crawford (born January 14, 1978) is a retired American sprint athlete. He competed in the 100 meters and 200 meters events. In the 200 meter sprint, Crawford won gold at the 2004 Summer Olympics and silver at the 2008 Summer Olympics. He originally finished 4th in the race but after the 2nd and 3rd-place winners were disqualified, he moved up to a silver. On April 17, 2013, Crawford was suspended for two years for missing out-of-competition drug tests. His coach, Bob Kersee claimed that Crawford retired after the 2012 United States Olympic Trials and USA Track & Field said he filed retirement papers in 2013.

Biography
Crawford was born in Van Wyck, South Carolina. He attended Indian Land High School before leaving for Clemson University, where he claimed eleven All-America honors and three national championships.

In 2001 Crawford started the year with a victory at the Indoor World Championships in the 200 m. He then went to the World Athletics Championships, where he tied with Kim Collins of Saint Kitts and Nevis for the 200 m bronze medal. At the Goodwill Games, he claimed his second gold medal of the year.

Crawford became known for his outrageous antics and lack of focus. At a 2002 meet in Milan, he donned a Phantom of the Opera mask that obstructed his vision during the 200 m race, causing him to run out of his lane and be disqualified.

In January 2003, Crawford starred in an episode of the Fox TV show Man vs. Beast in which he raced a zebra and a giraffe over 100 m on dirt. In the first race, he easily bested the giraffe. The zebra race was very close. Accusing the zebra of a false start, he re-raced the zebra, getting out of the blocks first and taking a lead. This caused the zebra to speed up, finishing in 9.957 seconds to Crawford's 10.86 seconds. Later he boasted to ESPN the Magazine, "tell the zebra I coulda whooped him." According to the USATF website, Crawford refers to himself as "Cheetah Man." He has publicly expressed his desire to run in war paint and urges spectators to look out for him at every meet.

In March 2004, he was favored to win the 60 meters world indoor title but was defeated by Jason Gardener of Great Britain by three hundredths of a second.

In the trials for the 2004 Summer Olympics, Crawford secured a place on the team by claiming third in the 100 m with a personal best of 9.93 s behind winner Maurice Greene and runner-up Justin Gatlin. Seven days later he placed first in the 200 m with a time of 19.99s, edging out Gatlin; Bernard Williams took third place. In June, Crawford improved on his 100 m personal best by running 9.88s in Eugene, Oregon. At the 2004 Summer Olympics in Athens, Crawford ran the 100 m final in 9.89 s, finishing in fourth place just 0.04 s behind first-place finisher Justin Gatlin. That marked the first race in history in which four competitors under 9.90s. Crawford went on to win the gold medal in the 200 m with a time of 19.79 s. He claimed a silver medal as part of the United States 4 × 100 m relay team.

He qualified for the 2008 Summer Olympics in the 200 m dash, finishing second at the trials after failing to qualify in the 100 m. He originally finished fourth in the 200 m final, but was later promoted to 2nd, winning silver, after fellow countryman Wallace Spearmon and Churandy Martina of the Netherlands Antilles were both disqualified for lane infringements. Although initially only Spearmon was disqualified, prompting the United States to consider filing a protest, review of race footage revealed an additional infraction by Martina. On August 28, in a gesture of sportsmanship, Crawford gave his medal to Martina. On March 6, 2009, the Court of Arbitration for Sport rejected an appeal by the National Olympic Committee of the Netherlands Antilles against Martina's disqualification.

Crawford won the 200 m at the 2009 USA Outdoor Track and Field Championships and qualified to represent the United States at the 2009 World Championships in Athletics. He ran 19.89 s in the final of the competition, his best time of the season, but finished fourth behind second-place Alonso Edward of Panama (19.81 s) and third-place Wallace Spearmon (19.85 s). First place finisher Usain Bolt set a new world record of 19.19 s. On April 17, 2013, Crawford was suspended for two years for missing out-of-competition drug tests. His coach, Bob Kersee claimed that Crawford retired after the 2012 United States Olympic Trials and USA Track & Field said he filed retirement papers in 2013.

Statistics

On 12 April 2002, Crawford became the first man to break ten seconds for the 100 metres for the first time and twenty seconds for the 200 metres for the first time, both on the same day, a feat he achieved in Pretoria, South Africa.

Personal bests

 * All information from IAAF Profile

Major achievements

 * 2001
 * World Championships in Athletics – Edmonton, Alberta, Canada.
 * 200 m bronze medalist
 * World Indoor Championships – Lisbon, Portugal.
 * 200 m gold medal
 * Goodwill Games – Brisbane, Australia.
 * 200 m gold medal
 * 2004
 * World Indoor Championships – Budapest, Hungary.
 * 60 m silver medal
 * Olympic Games – Athens, Greece.
 * 200 m gold medal
 * 4x100 m relay silver medal
 * 2008
 * 2008 Summer Olympics 200 m Silver Medal
 * On January 31, 2009 according to the Associated Press "Shawn Crawford confirmed that he gave his Olympic silver medal to Churandy Martina, the sprinter who finished second in the 200 meters but was later disqualified for running out of his lane"

title: Shawn Crawford


text:
Vladimir Vasyutin

Vladimir Vladimirovich Vasyutin (Russian: Влaдимиp Bлaдимиpoвич Васютин; 8 March 1952 19 July 2002) was a Soviet cosmonaut.

He was selected as a cosmonaut on 1 December 1978 (TsPK-6). He retired on 25 February 1986.

Vasyutin was assigned to the TKS program for a new generation of crewed military spacecraft that would be docked to the existing Salyut space stations.

He flew as the Commander on Soyuz T-14 to the Salyut 7 space station, for part of the long-duration mission Salyut 7 EO-4. He spent 64 days 21 hours 52 minutes in space. The TKS module was already docked to the Salyut and Vasyutin was due to lead an extended program of military space experiments. However Vasyutin fell ill soon after arriving at the station and was unable to perform his duties. Although he was originally scheduled to have a six-month stay aboard Salyut 7, his illness which he concealed from doctors before the launch, forced the crew to make an emergency return to Earth after only two months. His illness is said to have been caused by a prostate infection, which had manifested itself as inflammation and a fever.

He graduated from Higher Air Force School and from Test Pilot School, both in Kharkov. He was a Lieutenant General in the Soviet Air Forces, and took cosmonaut basic training in August 1976. He retired for medical reasons. He later became Deputy Faculty Chief, VVA - Gagarin Air Force Academy, Monino.

He was married and had two children. He died of cancer.

Awards and honors

 * Hero of the Soviet Union;
 * Pilot-Cosmonaut of the USSR;
 * Order of Honour (Russian Federation);
 * Order of Lenin;
 * Medal "For Strengthening Military Cooperation" (USSR);
 * Medal "For Strengthening Military Cooperation" (Russian Federation Defence Ministry);
 * Medal "Brotherhood in Arms" (Polish People's Republic).

title: Vladimir Vasyutin


text:
Karakoram Highway

The Karakoram Highway, also known as the KKH, National Highway 35 , N-35, and the China–Pakistan Friendship Highway, is a 1300 km national highway which extends from Hasan Abdal in the Punjab province of Pakistan to the Khunjerab Pass in Gilgit-Baltistan, where it crosses into China and becomes China National Highway 314. The highway connects the Pakistani provinces of Punjab and Khyber Pakhtunkhwa plus Gilgit-Baltistan with China's Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region. The highway is a popular tourist attraction and is one of the highest paved roads in the world, passing through the Karakoram mountain range, at 36.85°N, 75.42778°W at maximum elevation of 4714 m near Khunjerab Pass. Due to its high elevation and the difficult conditions under which it was constructed, it is often referred to as the Eighth Wonder of the World. The highway is also a part of the Asian Highway AH4.

History

The Karakoram Highway, also known as the Friendship Highway in China, was built by the governments of Pakistan and China. It was started in 1962 and was completed and opened to the public in 1978. Pakistan initially favored routing through Mintaka Pass. In 1966, China, citing the fact that Mintaka would be more susceptible to air strikes, recommended the steeper Khunjerab Pass instead. About 810 Pakistanis and about 200 Chinese workers died, mostly in landslides and falls, while building the highway. Over 140 Chinese workers who died during the construction are buried in the Chinese cemetery in Gilgit. The route of the KKH traces one of the many paths of the ancient Silk Road.

On the Pakistani side, the road was constructed by FWO (Frontier Works Organisation), employing the Pakistan Army Corps of Engineers. The Engineer-in-Chief's Branch of the Pakistani Army completed a project documenting the history of the highway. The book History of Karakoram Highway was written by Brigadier (Retired) Muhammad Mumtaz Khalid in two volumes. In the first volume, the author discusses the land and the people, the pre-historic communication system in the Northern Areas, the need for an all-weather road link with Gilgit, and the construction of Indus Valley Road. The second volume records events leading to the conversion of the Indus Valley Road to the Karakoram Highway, the difficulties in its construction, and the role of the Pakistan Army Corps of Engineers and their Chinese counterparts in its construction.

The Highway

The highway, connecting the Gilgit–Baltistan region to the ancient Silk Road, runs approximately 1300 km from Kashgar, a city in the Xinjiang region of China, to Abbottabad, of Pakistan. An extension of the highway southwest from Abbottabad, in the form of the N-35 highway, meets the Grand Trunk Road, N-5, at Hasan Abdal, Pakistan.

The highway cuts through the collision zone between the Eurasian and Indian plates, where China, Tajikistan, Afghanistan, and Pakistan come within 250 km of each other. Owing largely to the extremely sensitive state of the Kashmir conflict between India and Pakistan, the Karakoram Highway has strategic and military importance to these nations, but particularly Pakistan and China.

On 30 June 2006, a memorandum of understanding was signed between the Pakistani National Highway Authority (NHA) and China's State-owned Assets Supervision and Administration Commission (SASAC) to rebuild and upgrade the Karakoram Highway. According to SASAC, the width will be expanded from 10 to 30 m, and its transport capacity will be increased three times its current capacity. In addition, the upgraded road will be designed to particularly accommodate heavy-laden vehicles and extreme weather conditions.

China and Pakistan are planning to link the Karakoram Highway to the southern port of Gwadar in Balochistan through the Chinese-aided Gwadar-Dalbandin railway, which extends to Rawalpindi.

On 4 January 2010, the KKH was closed in the Hunza Valley, eliminating through traffic to China except by small boats. A massive landslide 15 km upstream from Hunza's capital of Karimabad created the potentially unstable Attabad Lake, which reached 22 km in length and over 100 m in depth by the first week of June 2010 when it finally began flowing over the landslide dam. The landslide destroyed parts of villages while killing many inhabitants. The subsequent lake displaced thousands and inundated over 20 km of the KKH, including the 310 m long KKH bridge 4 km south of Gulmit.

It is highly questionable whether the lake, which reached 27 km in length in 2011, will drain. Goods from and to further north were transported over the lake by small vessels, to be reloaded onto trucks at the other end. In July 2012, Pakistan began constructing a revised route around the lake at a higher elevation with five new tunnels, with a total length of 7.12 km and two new bridges. The work was contracted out to the China Road & Bridge Corporation (CRBC) and was completed in September 2015.

Pakistani section

At 806 km in length, the Pakistani section of the highway starts at Abbottabad, although the N-35 of which KKH is now part, officially starts from Hasan Abdal. The highway meets the Indus River at Thakot and continues along the river until Jaglot, where the Gilgit River joins the Indus River. This is where three great mountain ranges meet: the Hindukush, the Himalayas, and the Karakoram. The western end of the Himalayas, marked by the ninth highest peak in the world, Nanga Parbat, can be seen from the highway. The highway passes through the capital of Gilgit–Baltistan, Gilgit, and continues through the valleys of Nagar and Hunza, along the Hunza River. Some of the highest mountains and famous glaciers in Karakoram can be seen in this section. The highway meets the Pakistani-Chinese border at Khunjerab Pass.

Karakoram Highway reconstruction

As part of the $46 billion China Pakistan Economic Corridor, reconstruction and upgrade works on the Pakistani portion of the Karakoram Highway (KKH) are underway. The KKH spans the 806 km long distance between the China-Pakistan border and the town of Hasan Abdal. At Burhan Interchange near Hasan Abdal, the existing M1 motorway will intersect the Karakoram Highway. From there, access onwards to Islamabad and Lahore continues as part of the existing M1 and M2 motorways, while Hasan Abdal will also be at intersection of the Eastern Alignment, and the Western Alignment which will lead towards the port city of Gwadar.

Karakoram Highway Realignment (China-Pakistan Friendship Tunnels)
A large section of the highway was damaged by a landslide in 2010 that created Attabad Lake. The resulting landslides cut off both the Hunza River and Karakoram Highway resulting in the formation of the reservoir. Prior to the completion of the bypass, all vehicular traffic had to be loaded onto boats to traverse the new reservoir. Construction of the tunnels began in 2012 and required 36 months for completion. The 24 km long series of bridges and tunnels was inaugurated on 15 September 2015 at a cost of $275 million and was hailed as a major accomplishment. The route comprises five tunnels and several bridges. The longest tunnel is 3360 m, followed by 2736 m, 435 m, 410 m and 195 m, while the Shishkat Great Bridge on Hunza River is 1480 m long. The realignment restored the road link between Pakistan and China.

Chinese section
The Chinese section of the Karakoram Highway follows the north-south Sarykol ("Yellow Lake") valley just west of the Tarim Basin. The road from Kashgar goes southwest about 80 km and then turns west to enter the Gez (Ghez) River canyon between Chakragil mountain on the north and Kongur Tagh mountain on the south. From the Gez canyon the population becomes Kirgiz. Having climbed up to the valley, the road turns south past Kongur, Karakul Lake, and Muztagh Ata on the east. Below Muztagh Ata, a new road goes west over the Kulma Pass to join the Pamir Highway in Gorno-Badakhshan, Tajikistan. The main road continues over a low pass (where the population becomes Tajik) and descends to Tashkurgan. Further south, a valley and jeep track leads west toward the Wakhjir Pass to the Wakhan Corridor. Next the road turns west to a checkpost and small settlement at Pirali, and then the Khunjerab Pass, beyond which is Pakistan, the Khunjerab River and Hunza.

Major towns near Karakoram Highway

 * Rawalpindi Islamabad Pakistan railhead, gauge

 * Hassan Abdal
 * Haripur
 * Abbottabad
 * Mansehra
 * Battagram
 * Besham
 * Pattan
 * Kohistan
 * Dasu
 * Chilas
 * Juglot
 * Gilgit
 * Naltar Valley
 * Nagar
 * Aliabad
 * Gulmit
 * Sust
 * Tashkurgan (China)
 * Upal (China)
 * Kashgar, Chinese railhead, gauge

Tourism
In recent years the highway has sought to become a 'niche' adventure tourism destination although Pakistan attracts few international tourists compared to domestic ones. But in recent years, owing to the improved security situation in the country, the number of foreign tourists coming to Pakistan has more than tripled since 2013, standing at 1.75 million in 2016.

Among the tourist destinations in the country, KKH is deemed as the "third best" by The Guardian. The road has given mountaineers and cyclists easier access to the many high mountains, glaciers, and lakes in the area. The highway provides access to Gilgit and Skardu from Islamabad by road. These are the two major hubs for mountaineering expeditions in the Gilgit–Baltistan region of Pakistan administered Kashmir.

The Gilgit–Baltistan Administration of Pakistan-administered Kashmir and the Xinjiang Administration of China have signed an agreement to issue border passes to their permanent residents. This pass is valid for a calendar year and is used to travel through Khunjerab Pass only. Karakoram Highway has been described as one of the most beautiful destinations in the world. KKH provides a cross country road trip from Hasan Abdal, Pakistan to Kashgar.

Naltar Valley is one of the most scenic valleys accessed via Karakoram Highway. The valley offers snow clad mountains, sky high peaks, alpine ski slopes, high altitude lakes, glaciers and mountain passes. Bishgiri Lake is one of the highest lakes in Pakistan. While Pakora Pass is famous for its glaciers and meadows.

Mountains and glaciers

Karakoram Highway provides the pathway to expeditions for almost all peaks in Gilgit–Baltistan, Kashmir and several peaks in Xinjiang China. The region includes some of the world's largest glaciers like the Baltoro and Siachen Glaciers. Two of the Eight-thousanders (mountains taller than 8000 m) of the world that are in Pakistan are accessible by the highway. The notable mountains that can be directly seen while travelling on the highway are:

 * Nanga Parbat, Gilgit–Baltistan, 9th highest of the world at 8126 m
 * Rakaposhi, Gilgit–Baltistan, 27th highest of the world at 7788 m
 * Diran, Gilgit–Baltistan, most dangerous mountain in Pakistan
 * Shishpar, Gilgit–Baltistan
 * Ultar Peak, Gilgit–Baltistan
 * Tupopdan, Gilgit–Baltistan, also known as Cathedral Peaks near Passu

Many glaciers can be seen while travelling on the highway:

 * Minapin Glacier
 * Passu Glacier
 * Ghulkin Glacier
 * Khunjerab Glacier

Rivers and lakes
Several rivers and lakes are made accessible by the highway. These include:
 * Indus River
 * Hunza River
 * Attabad Lake
 * Gilgit River
 * Khunjerab River
 * Karakul Lake in Xinjiang (China)

Rock art and petroglyphs

There are more than 50,000 pieces of rock art and petroglyphs all along the highway that are concentrated at ten major sites between Hunza and Shatial. The carvings were left by invaders, traders, and pilgrims who passed along the trade route, as well as by locals. The earliest date back to between 5000 and 1000 BC, showing single animals, triangular men, and hunting scenes in which the animals are larger than the hunters. These carvings were pecked into the rock with stone tools and are covered with a thick patina that yields their age.

Travel
There are several transport companies in Pakistan that offer bus service between major towns of the highway and from Rawalpindi and Lahore. The largest company is Northern Areas Transport Corporation (NATCO). Other companies are Masherbrum Travel, Silk Route Travel, K-2 movers, Anchan Travel, and Saeed Travel.

Bus service between Gilgit and Kashgar
On 1 June 2006, daily bus service began between Gilgit, Gilgit–Baltistan, and Kashgar, Xinjiang, through the Sust and Tashkorgan border area.

Climate

The KKH is best travelled in the spring or early autumn. Heavy snow during harsh winters can shut the highway down for extended periods. Heavy monsoon rains around July and August cause occasional landslides that can block the road for hours or more. The border crossing between China and Pakistan at Khunjerab Pass is open only between 1 May and 31 December.

Alternate road (Xinjiang-GB-Azad Kashmir road)
The proposed Xinjiang-GB-Azad Kashmir road would be linked to Yarkant County in Xinjiang, and enter Gilgit-Baltistan through Mustagh Pass, 126 km west of Ladakh, crossing the major supply artery from the Karakoram Highway near Skardu city. From there, it would run south through the high-altitude Deosai Plateau to the Astore Valley. A road tunnel is proposed to be constructed through the mountains to connect Astore to the Neelum Valley in the Azad Kashmir region.

title: Karakoram Highway


text:
Saint Hunger

Hunger (died 866), also known as Hungerus Frisus, was the Bishop of Utrecht from 854 to 866. He is a saint of the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox Churches.

Born around 800, Hunger became a Benedictine. After the death of his predecessor Liudger of Utrecht, Liudger's nephew Craft was offered the seat. However, Craft, a very wealthy person, refused because he was afraid that he would attract Viking raids. Instead, Canon Hunger was appointed.

At first his relations with the Vikings were peaceful, but eventually Utrecht was threatened by the Vikings, which caused the bishop and the entire clergy of Utrecht to flee to Sint Odiliënberg, near Roermond. In 858 king Lothair II made a monastery available for them. Later the bishop settled in Prüm and then in Deventer.

Hunger seems to have been a godly man who, unlike his predecessors, did not engage in nepotism. In the case of the childless marriage between Lothair II and his wife Teutberga, he defended the sanctity of their marriage on biblical and theological grounds, but to secure his succession, Lothair II repudiated his wife and married Waldrada, with whom he had a son.

Hunger died in Prüm in Germany. His feast day is 22 December.

title: Saint Hunger