text:
Talk:Hongkongers/Archive 1

Earlier convos

 * to Hlaw, don't you read SCMP? "Hongkonger" appears every day.

 * As a standard test, try search the term in google to see how often it is used.  Many (including the top) entries are not even in English. Compare this with, say, Singaporean  or New Zealander .   - Hlaw 02:59, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * It is not fair to compare in this way. It is equally common to refer Hongkongers as Hong Kong people, wheareas this is not the case of Singaporeans versus Singaporean people.  Furthermore, Singaporean itself is also an adjective, wheareas Hong Kong but not Hongkonger is used as the adjective form.  Furthermore English is less commonly used in Hong Kong as in Singapore.
 * As a test by searching "Hongkonger" in English, I used Google, searching only pages in English by setting preferences in "Advanced Search". The test result is as follows:
 * Hongkonger - 2,690 hits
 * Hongkongers - 3,620 hits
 * Hong Konger - 982 hits
 * Hong Kongers - 15,100 hits
 * As a rule of standardisation, I go along with the spelling on SCMP, a locally-published English language newspaper with the largest circulation.
 * FYI: entry at Merriam-Webster Online
 * Going by a search engine hit is pointless. It is natural for 90% of the people to look up by slang versus the politically correct name.  In this case every book I have checked references the people in Hong Kong as Hong Kong citizen.  This page needs to be at the least renamed to the non-slang term to even be considered official.  Benjwong 22:17, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I also propose this page be directly linked to Demographics of Hong Kong. Benjwong 22:26, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I also propose this page be directly linked to Demographics of Hong Kong. Benjwong 22:26, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm an international student living in Australia. I never heard 'hongkonger'. We (asian students) normally call people from hongkong as 'hongkie'. It has 37,000 hits from Google search. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.200.239.130 (talk) 13:59, 29 December 2007 (UTC)

Use of translations and meaning of Chinese
I don't think it is appropriate to use esoteric transliterations like HeuhngGohngYeahn or HongKongyan in the text. Also, there are numerous odd things in there - e.g. Chinese can refer to both a Chinese National (meaning citizen of the PRC) as well as a person who is ethnically Chinese (which does not necessarily belong nor even recognize the PRC). So I can't see any incorrect usage in calling 中國人 Chinese... Just as in Chinese, 中國人 can refer to people of the middle kingdom, Chinese nationals or simply, er, Chinese... --Mintchocicecream 23:05, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't think all the translations are esoteric. People in HK don't use the term 'hongkonger'  because... well they speak cantonese.  Having at least 香港人 is appropriate at least to demonstrate what native HK call themselves.  But I agree some of the other more esoteric stuff is a bit irrelevant. :novacatz 10:21, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

 * 香港人 is appropriate (well, I added it); though the transliteration aren't. See discussion below for more information  --Mintchocicecream 18:38, 24 August 2005 (UTC)

Use of Hongkongers
Hello, thanks for all the editors and writers for improving this page dedicated to Hongkongers. "Hong Kong" people is, I am afraid of, an error in English usage that has become Hongkong-ized English. If anyone cares about enough to add that page to explain the etymological history of this, it would be great. Please also link it to the "Chinglish" page. No one who has educated in the English language would say, "English is to England as Hong Kong people is to Hong Kong!!!!" It is "English is to England as HongKonger is to Hong Kong". You could intelligently argue that "Englishman is to England as Frenchman is to France as HongKongman / Hongkongyan / Xianggangren is to Hong Kong". I am confused about the contemporary lumping of Hong Kong into one word HongKong (popularized by airfreight systems that cannot enter a space) or Hongkong (taking a Japanese-style Romanization angle) and HongKongers / Hong Kongers respectively. This has been rather problematic. Can someone kindly advise? No one ever says "Singapore people live in Singapore". That is "Singlish" or "Chinglish" and that "Hong Kong People" or "Hongkongyan" is the same Chinglish expression. It is very endearing though. I personally think term should stay separate as "Hong Konger" because we call New Yorkers and not NewYorkers nor Newyorkers. If you want to associate Hong Kong with New York, it has to stay Hong Konger, if you want to associate Hong Kong efficiency and hi-tech with German cities and Japanese bullet trains, you would write Hongkonger because both German and Japanese are agglutinating languages. I am not sure if Cantonese is the same way or if it is closer to Mandarin. But I have also realised that new (as of Aug 2005) Chinese Pinyin follows the Japanese / German style such as Shanghai, Beijing or Dongqunxiaolu. No one writes Shang Hai or Bei Jing since it would look too confusing and a little silly. It is up to the people to make an intelligent and hopefully POSH judgment call since Hong Kong is a posh city. Cheers!--20SunnyShady 03:16, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

 * By the way, I think only the people from HONG KONG have the right to define how they want to be called. All the other people, like some of the annoying editors who give the posh Singaporeans a bad name and who insist on editing every[the original writing has something missing here] else's should just stick to their own Singapore and Singlish pages where they score best. - 194.206.179.4 23:58, August 22, 2005 (UTC)

 * The point about New Yorkers is well put. However, I think Hongkongers can decide who they call themselves, and outsiders don't need to agree either and may choose to call us something else - just as gweilo for foreigners remain popular in Hong Kong and (generally) nobody would complain.  Hongkongers is not meant to be posh, just as Shanghai is no posher than Shang Hai.  (On that note apart from some older road signs it has been Shanghai for a very long time hasn't it?)  The reason Hongkongers is the title for this page is because this is the term used by the region's largest English language paper, the South China Morning Post.  --Mintchocicecream 18:00, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't believe that any one institution should be allowed to designate a label for an entire population, or that we should go along with said label just because one institution has decided that is what it wants to call an entire population. I grew up in Hong Kong and have never referred to myself, nor any other, as a Hong Konger(or any variation thereof). I have only very rarely heard anyone use such a term and on those rare instances, the speakers were non-native. Most people seem to be confused as to what term designates people from Hong Kong, there are a few different terms being bandied about and it has been a topic of debate for some time. I prefer to say 'people from Hong Kong', I would never say 'I'm a Hong Konger', rather 'I am from Hong Kong' and this is how almost everyone that I know in Hong Kong would describe themselves. Out of the proposed adjectives (Hong Konger, Hong Kongian, Hong Kongese) only Hong Kongese seems even a little bit appropriate. It is in keeping with the adjectives attributed to people from neighbouring cities Shanghai(Shanghainese), Macau(Macanese) and from the surrounding Guangdong/Canton province itself(Cantonese). This latter term is what most local Hong Kong people (of Han Chinese descent) would call themselves anyway, failing a more specific English term for people from Hong Kong.--Schkfrldn (talk) 21:07, 9 March 2008 (UTC)
 * You are not the only one having a problem with the term. I personally prefer Hong Kong citizens. This article was deleted earlier as per a similar discussion. Benjwong (talk) 21:44, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

NPOV Dispute
Many thanks to the energetic anonymous editor 194.206.179.4. Numerous though the edits, I feel much of his or her POV got in the way in the article. These are my reasons:

 * 1) Use of esoteric 'transliterations' terms like tsonggokyen or hongkongyan which I have never come across in my life in Hong Kong.
 * 2) Unrelated commentary about definitions of Hongkonger and Mainlander which will not match the general consensus. E.g. on racial 'purity', customs or even socio-political attitudes.
 * 3) Esoteric (yes, again) and POV statements like:   "For example, when filling up an "ethnic identity form" in the UK, Hongkongers are asked the impossible task of categorizing themselves as "Chinese" or not."  and  ""Chinese" in the UK English language can denote both nationals of the PRC as well as nationals of other nations who are "ethnically" Chinese. For example, when filling up an "ethnic identity form" in the UK, Hongkongers are asked the impossible task of categorizing themselves as "Chinese" or not."  ... when clearly Chinese is a blanket term for people who consider themselves ethnic Chinese.  It's like the blanket term British to describe English, Scottish or Welsh people or Asian in describing Indian or Pakistanis.  It's not an impossible task at all -- e.g. "I am (ethnically) Chinese and I am a Hong Kong citizen holding British Nationality. is not a problem.  Nobody is going to say something esoteric like I am a tsonggokyen who is also a hongkongyun  - which makes as much sense as it does in HK as in foreign nations - i.e. zilch.  Yes, terms used by the governments of the U.S. and UK may not be entirely accurate, but they represent the views of people there (e.g. Pacific Islander would sound really weird in the UK but sounds ok in the U.S.A.) but it is unrelated and not even a reported problem (well, anywhere outside this Wikipedia article).  Furthermore, any relation of such information to the term Hongkonger is very limited indeed and goes down a slippery slope...

--Mintchocicecream 23:34, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

 * - I agree that the transliteration HeuhngGohngYeahn is a little too esoteric so I deleted it. Thanks for the advice. But I think HongKongyan should stay because that is what a gweilo hears from a native Cantonese Hong Kong person refer Hong Kong as, when posed the question, what do you call yourself, as a person from Hong Kong?
 * - The Hongkonger will always reply in perfect Jyut Ping Cantonese but the US Canada UK Australia media will ALWAYS PRINT IT as HONGKONGYAN.

 * And in the Gweilo's ears, HongKongyan indeed IS heard. NOT the standardised Jyut Ping version. They never spell HOENG1 GONG2 YEN3 in New York Times or The Times in London. However, for encyclopedic integrity, I also included every Jyut Ping romanization for academic correctness.

 * - The confusion on "Chinese" and "China" is that if you reflect and analyse carefully, apart from all the preconceived notions you were taught or inherited, there is no English word that separately represents the meaning of Tangren, Tongyan, Tongyangai (Tangrenjie) i.e. Chinatown, Zhongguo, Zhongguorenminggongheguo (PRC), Zhonghuaminguo (Taiwan) or "Zhongguo" in pre-Qin China which referred to the combined interior of nation-states opposing the nation of Chin / Qin..

 * - "Chinese" is applied to anything that is East Asian and NOT Japanese or Korean. Anything from the nationals of the People's Republic of China in 2005 to the Manchu lords of past dynasties. This is simply incorrect and the encyclopedia edited by bilinguals should elucidate this as it is a source of many racist politics and ideologies.
 * - The "simplest" translation is often the most "incorrect" and "inaccurate" translation. For example, chimpanzees are apes, gorillas apes, the homo sapien family is part of the ape family but when someone asks you: What animal species are you from and what animal species is your mother? I hope you do not choose the simplest and easiest answer. If you do, I guess you are correct too.

 * - I am editor 194.206.179.4. I did not add the POV comments. Someone else added them in to correct by article but because it was written in broken English, I corrected the linguistic portion of it and got framed. Thanks.

 * -- (unsigned - by 194.206.179.4)

 * Hong Kong Yan: Do a Google search and you'll find a total of seven results, none of which is from a notable newspaper or media. Naming_dispute (a proposed policy - but still...) suggests that Commonly used English translations of self-identifying terms are acceptable (e.g. "Japanese" for Nihon-jin).
 * Chinese and Confused notion of Chinese: I have never heard this argument anywhere (about causing racist policies nor seeing it applied to anything East Asian but not Japanese nor Korean). Unless you can back this up with any article from a notable souce I think it is in line for deletion as it is POV.  I think this is sounds like the view from a very ideological perspective.  There are, after all, identification like Han Chinese and the very fact that there is the word Manchu shows that this is not true.  To me, this sounds like original research which is discouraged.  You aren't writing an encyclopedia to suggest what *should* be done, but what *is* generally considered true.  Also, it seems a very unrelated topic to discuss in a Hongkonger article.  Maybe it would fit in an article:  Chinese (disambiguation) but then if you did I think it would be in line for deletion due to the points I covered above.
 * --Mintchocicecream 06:35, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, you do have a point that the word Chinese is a bit all-encompassing but it is not the place to add terms. Furthermore, word usage change over time - and Chinese is commonly taken to refer to many things but is still understandably so - just like other words - e.g. cult changed meaning from time to time but the old meaning still makes sense in the correct context.  Perhaps an article as such about the limitations of the word Chinese would fit in an lingustic journal or a journal of East Asian studies, but unless it is there already and subjected to peer review and become commonly accepted, it has no place in Wikipedia.  Other projects, such as Everything2 or H2G2 would be a different matter, though.  --Mintchocicecream 06:55, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Hello Mintchocicecream, Thanks for the discussion update. I am refraining from editing the page anymore so other users can correct it besides you and I so that it will gain a more objective view over time. I hope that you can refrain from editing it too. About Wiki policy, I also noted that it is "comprehensive" and "descriptive", see below.

 * "Bear in mind that Wikipedia is descriptive, not prescriptive. We cannot declare what a name should be, only what it is. Suppose that the people of Maputa oppose the use of the term "Cabindan" as a self-identification by another ethnic group. In this instance, the Cabindans use the term in a descriptive sense: that is what they call themselves. The Maputans oppose this because they believe that the Cabindans have no moral or historical right to use the term. They take a prescriptive approach to the term, arguing that it should not be used."

 * I have been disappointed by many editors who constantly delete articles to fit THEIR own NPOV which they think is the VOICE of GOD and OBJECTIVE. I think that is very egocentric and destroys the Wikipedia project which is a collective effort. Many editors argue, "Because in my ENTIRE life as a human being, I have never heard SO and SO, thus IT SHOULD NOT." That is a prescriptive attitude because even in Hong Kong alone, there are millions of lives and millions of perspectives that do not coincide with yours. The fact that the google search results in Hongkongyan proves that this term is not "too esoteric". In fact, I think "Tsonggokyen" is the rarer one. However, I added it because Jyutping uses ZONG which is mispronounced as Z sound in its initial consonant instead of the TS sound as in Tsar which the Cantonese original is similar to. gokyen or gok yen is similar to Jyutping and is thus NOT esoteric at all.

 * I think at the moment, with the initial part of the article explaining the superficial meaning of Hongkonger, which develops into ensuing sections that dwell on the more subtle and finer points of the term, is perfect.

 * I do agree that there should be a "CHINESE" disambiguation idea. I think that is perfect for clarifying the use of the blanket term "Chinese". However, I think the section on HongKongers vs. Mainland Chinese should stay, at least until 2046, because many Westerners do not understand Hong Kong history and the difference between Hong Kongers as opposed to Shanghainese. Increasingly, I see young editors taking Hong Kong to be a specific Chinese race like Shanghainese and hence the currency of the term Hongkongese which is erroneous because Hong Kong is more of a cosmopolitan city of immigrants akin to New York whereas Shanghai consists mainly of Shanghainese, and is more akin to London or Berlin. - 194.206.179.4 09:30, August 23, 2005 (UTC)

 * Many thanks for your detailed explanation. I will refrain from editing the main page for now as clearly our idea of 'NPOV' is different and it is better for a third party to get involved if they decide to do so.  However, I will first explain my views so that you -as well as any daring editor who dares venture into our debate here (haha)- know where I come from.  My hope is that this can eventually be developed into a FAC but I would be inclined to think other editors would be concerned about the accuracy of certain things here.

 * Thinking "z" is mispronounced sounds a little anglo-centric to me. Just as Spanish, French, German pronunciations do not correspond with the English one, Mandarin Chinese pinyin doesn't - nor should I believe Jyutping is wrong in this way.  Similarly, the people who developed Jyutping would probably have their own pronunciation schemes which fit certain conventions.  I would say a good pronunciation guide would be to use established methods rather than what sounds most "right".  The established (as in, most recognized) methods is through Pinyin for Mandarin Chinese and one of the pronunciation guides for Cantonese (I am not sure which is the most popular).

 * If you want to do something like tsonggokyen it is probably more accurate to use something like IPA type thing - which would look more professional and BE more professional too. Introducing your own scheme (no matter how much more correct it sounds in certain English pronunciations) suggests too much of original research to me.  After all, even established authorities can't challenge the most used systems -- whether that is something supposedly better to replace the QWERTY keyboard in computing or the ROC's attempt to introduce Tongyong Pinyin.  I would say your pronunciation scheme resembles Hong_Kong_Government_Cantonese_Romanisation - but even then, it is used only for people and place names -- never for descriptive or general words like "中國人".

 * I don't particularly like the word Hongkongese as it sounds very odd from my perspective, but I believe many do use it and obviously they have the right to use it. (And even if they didn't they'd use it anyway as language is not dictated from above.)  I don't believe those who use Hongkongese intend Hongkongers to be a race of any type - it just sounds more right to them and I can't fault them for that.

 * Finally - do consider starting an account - it does help knowing where you come from and your specific expertise. As you'll see in my user page I'm from HK and studied in the UK so these are areas I will be familiar with.
 * --Mintchocicecream 17:54, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * And on the point of objectivity, I'd agree. For me, I like to think I am objective - but so does everybody else.  For most matters, I take the postmodernist stance that nobody can be truly objective and everything you do/say/whatever reflects your certain peculiarities.  --Mintchocicecream 18:03, 23 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The explanation of the meaning of the word "Chinese" at the bottom is confusing and exemplifies exactly the problems of trying to define it:

 * Chinese is a popularly-used all-encompassing phrase to refer to (1) the Chinese civilisation, (2) citizens of the People's Republic of China, (3) people who are ethnically one of the many Chinese ethnicities (of which 56 are officially recognised in the PRC), (4) the Chinese language and (5) people identifying themselves as Chinese. In the Chinese language the terms Hua ren and Zhongguo ren are generally used interchangeably within the People's Republic of China and among overseas Chinese in North America. Overseas Chinese in southeast Asia (particularly in Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore) and supporters of Taiwanese independence within Taiwan make a clear distinction between Hua ren (Chinese in the ethnic sense) and Zhongguo ren (Chinese in the political sense). When used by non-Chinese, the term Chinese has also been used synonymously with the Han Chinese, which is the majority ethnicity (>92%) within China. Some Chinese reject this usage, and conflicts over this particular usage tend to come up in discussions about ethnic minorities.

 * The note ends by saying "When used by non-Chinese, the term Chinese has also been used synonymously with the Han Chinese", but if you look at the earlier part of the note, you'll find the definitions given seem to unconsciously assume the Han-non Han distinction that is criticised at the end of the note. When we talk of "Chinese civilisation", we must ask what we mean by "Chinese civilisation"? Does it include "Tibetan culture"? Does it include "Uighur culture"? What is the "Chinese language"? Is it 汉语? Or does it include Uighur, Tibetan, Korean, etc. etc. What are 华人 (Huaren)? In most people's subconscious understanding, Chinese civilisation, Chinese language and Huaren are all really Han-centred concepts, despite attempts by the Chinese government to maintain otherwise. Anyone talking about "Chinese civilisation" is normally unconsciously referring to a Han-centred civilisation, not Uighur or Tibetan or Chaoxianzu culture (I know the boundaries are not clear, but this doesn't make the distinction any less real). Even Chinese, I humbly submit, would unconsciously make this distinction -- although if challenged would come back with the politically-correct version that yes, Tibetan culture is Chinese civilisation.

 * If you think that I'm assuming too much, then tell me why the broader definition is included as definition (3): "people who are ethnically one of the many Chinese ethnicities (of which 56 are officially recognised in the PRC)"? If this is the REAL definition of "Chinese", why is it put in a little definition of its own, and not included right at the beginning as the full definition of "Chinese"?

 * So the explanatory note at the end is contradictory. It starts out unconsciously equating Chinese to Han, and then ends with the observation that non-Chinese often equate Chinese with Han!

Explanation of Edits
--Mintchocicecream 23:53, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Mintchocicecream's edits
 * 1) I removed tranliterations such as tsonggokyen and hongkongyan instead opting for a footnote that, amongst other things, mentions Jyutping and Hanyu Pinyin and noting crucially that the letters used in romanisations do not necessarily correspond to the usage in the English language.
 * 2) Ethnic Chinese:  I removed opposed to themselves because it's just an identifier.  It can be considered neutral - just as a mainland Chinese would refer to a person from Shanghai as 上海人.
 * 3) Americans:  I removed in the same way residents of the federal entity of the United States of America are known as Americans because America differs:  People can be Asian-American, Afro-American, etc. -- it's quite different and far from being "the same way".
 * 4) I also revamped the Differences section.  Much should be accepted but if there are any problems do change it as always =).
 * 5) Cosmopolitanism:  I changed the focus on COUNTRIES (thus NATIONALS) rather than ETHNICITY/RACES to make this article easier to read.  Thus, I removed descendants of Tang, Ming and Qing families as there is already a disambiguation note on the use of the word Chinese at the bottom.  Chinese should be understandable and uncontroversial after noting that statement at the bottom.
 * 6) Cosmopolitanism: Europeans and Asians:  I removed the massive list of Europeans and the word "intermarried" (marry within the same ethnic, social, or family group) because they aren't really needed.  Again, to simplify the article, I am focusing on nationals other than ethnicity -- thus "Indians" rather than "Hindi, Brahmins and Punjabis")--Mintchocicecream 22:48, 28 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Things that still need changing
 * 1) I don't understand the "common vernacular" because I am no language expert.  Needs to be expanded because encyclopedias should be written so it's understandable for the average person.
 * 2) Racial Purity needs changing.  Please.  =)  As explained in the top, Hongkonger can be of any race thus including this results in a confusion over the phrase Hongkonger.
 * 3) You know what would be really good? Add a ogg sound clip of someone saying 中國人 and 香港人 in Cantonese!  That will kill the need for any odd transliterations once and for all.

Transliterations (reprise)
Instead of Hong-Kong-yan, we should use an official pronunciation system - ie. IPA - as recommended by Manual_of_Style_%28pronunciation%29. --Mintchocicecream 01:48, 3 September 2005 (UTC)
 * Agree. :-) — Instantnood 07:57, September 3, 2005 (UTC)

Other ethnic groups
I agree with the stub section identifier... In particular, the section needs cleaning up and more detail:  In particular, there are many Filipinas working as maids - but also in many other professions too...  I don't know enough to write more but someone else might! In addition, more details could be added on assimilation into HK -- there are many 'foreigners'/non-Chinese (asian/european/african/american/etc) who consider themselves as Hongkongers because well, they lived and studied/worked in Hong Kong in the same way as the ethnic Chinese...

Again, I don't know enough on the subject to be able to contribute meaningfully but others might!!--mintchocicecream 15:06, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

This bit about Hongkongers
Quoting this bit Hong Kong citizens are polite, well respect of others and very gentleman like. I would like to ask if this person have been to HK before, if so did he write this from the government laptop which prompted him to tell the world HK people are as gentlemanly as British people, from my and other people's experience I know, they are compared to mainland Chinese, but compared to the Oversea Born Chinese I know of, a lot them are not. Willirennen 00:05, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * And I would like to know if you wrote your comment from the laptop of a government watchdog group which prompted you to tell the world that the person who added the quote above must have been spouting government propaganda, from my and other editors' experience I know of, the above quote is guilty of a lack of reference, but guilty of government propaganda, it is not. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 01:18, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I apologise for any offense above as that was written with a little bit of humor, just don't take it personally :) Willirennen 01:47, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

general comment
"Hong Konger" is simply a too ill-defined idea. It's difficult to write about a thing when you can't even define it clearly. I have no idea how to edit this article. I even doubt its raison d'être. Source is also a huge problem. (I can only find this one so far).--K.C. Tang 09:27, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * See also this one (in Chinese).--K.C. Tang 09:33, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

We can certainly limit the scope to the context of what is discussed in the sources that can be found. I think much of the article is placed on the assumption that "Hong Konger" or "香港人" are basically people who are long-term residents in HK. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 16:35, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 * yes, everything goes back to the question: Who are the Hong Kongers? I think we can begin the article with something like this, if enough sources can be found: Hong Konger is an ill-defined term. Legally there is no definition for it... some think a Hong Konger is so-and-so (source)... some think so-and-so (source)... [With all the NPOV assumptions removed]...-K.C. Tang 06:27, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think now 90% of the article is NPOV, if not more...--K.C. Tang 06:29, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I think most of the article is just poorly written, and most of it is about the demographics of HKers. A lot of that is probably covered or should be covered in other Hong Kong-related articles.  Like for example, the bits about what languages HKers speak is probably either already covered or should be covered in Languages of Hong Kong.  Etc, etc.  This article should probably concentrate on the identity of what a HKer is.  Now in the context of information that is directly related to how a "HKer" is identified and defined, I don't think we need to trim away the NPOV statements.  Simply because it's not a well-studied subject, and there aren't really any authoritative sources for it.  Basically, most of the information we'd find is probably going to be NPOV.  What we should probably do is include different information from different POVs, and make sure we attribute those statements to their sources.  For example, "According to So-And-So, a Hong Konger is someone who..."  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 07:44, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I get your point, but some trimming seems sorely necessary. The sect "Differences between Hongkongers and mainlanders" really seems to me horrible... I wonder if there would be any source saying things like those. I haven't studied the history of the article carefully, but it seems that part was written by some anonymous users - we can't even discuss with them.-K.C. Tang 09:03, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh yeah, we should get rid of the poorly written stuff like that section you mentioned. I took a glance at the Chinese version of the article, and it looks a lot better written.  What I'm guessing is that this article started as a translation of the Chinese article, but then some of the more poorly written stuff were added on.  That "Differences between Hongkongers and mainlanders" section is much bigger on the English version than on the Chinese version.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 15:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 * the Chinese version isn't very well-sourced, either, although it seemingly tries to give a more objective account of the thing... hope we can hear what others think soon. Cheers. :)--K.C. Tang 06:34, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

This page needs to be deleted, moved or seriously overhauled period. There is zero referencing, at most this page is misinformation about a slang. "Hong Kong Yan/香港人" should be translated to Hong Kong citizens. The term does not have to relate to Han Chinese or any ethnic group. Quite frankly look at New Yorker, which is a far more common term than Hong Konger and the page does not dwell on the social terminology. Most books refer to "香港人" as Hong Kong citizen. I am proposing this page be renamed and completely revamped. Hong Konger, HongKonger will link to Hong Kong citizen afterwards. This page cannot even be researched on until this ill-defined term gets corrected. Benjwong 22:08, 1 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree with you. Renamed (plus deleting most of its content) or simply deleted.--K.C. Tang 01:58, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer to delete instead of rename. The major problems that exist on this article right now will still exist even if we rename the article.  Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 02:10, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Rating
I rated this article for WPHK as a Start class article. Despite its length, I think the article is a mess and most of it could probably be deleted. If anybody disagrees, feel free to change the rating to B. Hong Qi Gong (Talk - Contribs) 22:08, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hongkongers/Archive 1


text: User talk:81.153.80.170

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:81.153.80.170


text: User talk:69.110.41.208

title: User talk:69.110.41.208


text: User talk:24.5.134.57

title: User talk:24.5.134.57


text:
Oregon Route 8

Oregon Route 8, also known as Oregon Highway 8, is an Oregon state highway which serves the western suburbs of Portland. The road is locally known as Canyon Road and Tualatin Valley Highway, and travels through the center of the Tualatin Valley. Oregon 8 is located entirely within Washington County. The portion of the route from US 26 to Oregon Route 47 is part of the National Highway System, listed as a principal arterial.

Route description
The eastern terminus of OR 8 is an interchange with U.S. Route 26 (which is, at that point, the Sunset Highway) just west of the Portland city limits and the Washington-Multnomah county line. Initially, it is also known as Canyon Road, since it comes out of the gulch in which the Sunset Highway runs. The official designation, beginning from the eastern terminus, is the Tualatin Valley Highway No. 29 (see Oregon highways and routes).

Continuing west, OR 8 enters the suburb of Beaverton, and after its interchange with Oregon Route 217, a freeway, its posted name changes to the Tualatin Valley (TV) Highway at Hocken Avenue. It comes within one block of Oregon Route 10, running parallel but never intersecting, although commuters often use surface streets to change between the highways.

TV Highway continues west as an expressway out of Beaverton, through the communities of unincorporated urban Washington County, including Aloha, where it runs right next to chipmaker Intel's facilities. The highway continues into the Hillsboro neighborhoods of Reedville and Witch Hazel, where it intersects with Cornelius Pass Road at Reedville. It then continues into the city proper of Hillsboro, running north–south as 10th Avenue before turning east–west with traffic split into a one-way pair. Westbound traffic runs as Baseline Street and eastbound traffic runs on Oak Street. In downtown Hillsboro it receives the northern terminus of Oregon Route 219, which is 1st Avenue.

After passing through downtown Hillsboro, OR 8 moves westward through the adjoined towns of Cornelius and Forest Grove, passing next to Pacific University. At Cornelius the road is again split into a one-way pair, with westbound traffic running on Adair Street, and eastbound on Baseline. In Forest Grove, it intersects with Oregon Route 47, where it becomes part of the Nehalem Highway No. 102. TV Highway continues as OR 47 south to McMinnville. In downtown Forest Grove the road splits again, with eastbound traffic running on 19th Street, and westbound on Pacific Avenue. West of Forest Grove, OR 8 is known as Gales Creek Road, which is not actually a state highway; after passing through some farmland west of Forest Grove, including the community of Gales Creek, OR 8 reaches its western terminus in an intersection with Oregon Route 6 south of the community of Glenwood.

History
The section between Beaverton and Hillsboro was built around 1918. Constructed of cement, it partly replaced a county road built of dirt that ran on the southern side of the railroad tracks. The earlier road came from Portland via Bertha Blvd. on Farmington Road and veered north on what is now Kinnaman Road until 209th Avenue in Reedville, where it then ran parallel to the rail tracks. At Witch Hazel it then followed the modern Witch Hazel and River roads into Hillsboro proper.

In March 1919, Hillsboro elected to have the highway moved from Main Street two blocks south to Baseline Street (eastbound traffic was later moved to Oak Street). Washington County planners in March 1953 decided to have the highway widened to four lanes.

Major intersections

 * Note: mileposts do not reflect actual mileage due to realignments.

title: Oregon Route 8


text:
Wikipedia:Japanese wikipedians' notice board/Request for images

Every prefecture's article should have a picture. History, Culture and Tourism are good places. Economy can be good, too. From capital city, or better yet, from another place. I've put photos in many prefectures, but they're hardly works of art, and some are duplicates of photos from other articles. If you can add another, or replace them, please feel free! Ideas: Castles, temples, shrines, gardens, national parks, natural scenery, traditional arts and crafts, performing arts, festivals, statues, corporate headquarters, landmarks, sunsets... Fg2 07:18, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

Though most of village/town/city article lacks images, some of them have good images(cf. ja:&. But I think it is not the time to move them from Japanese Wikipedia yet. Many images are untagged on Japanese Wikipedia and I can't predict when we will start tagging campaign on JA WP. If we put images, it is better for us to begin after the tagging campaign on JA. But if you can't wait, you can start to browse those articles. ;) --Aphaea 19:42, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the information about Shibata. I did not take the photograph, but I did add Shibata Castle to List of castles.

Ice Sculpture
A new article, Ice Sculpture, could use a photograph. Does anyone have any pictures from Sapporo or another winter carnival?


text:
Talk:2004 Taiwanese legislative election

Names of candidates
At large, district and aboriginal, and overseas candidate lists have been published but they need to be translated. Please help. --Jiang 07:19, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * is there a page on romanization? Then I can probably convert them to whatever pinyin that's used because I read Chinese characters but know very little about romanization. My own name's romanization is messed up too:) Wareware 02:05, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I think we should use Wade-Giles without apostrophes as a temporary measure. Here's a conversion table: --Jiang 08:22, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Turnout
What was the turnout? – Kaihsu 23:04, 2004 Dec 11 (UTC)

 * 65%. I havent been able to locate a specific figure.

 * Someone needs to copy all the data from zh or here. I probably won't be doing much here until friday due to finals. MS Word can be used to convert all the image names. --Jiang 23:37, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Did reuters copy a mistake from us?
The threshold for a constitutional amendment is 3/4 and not 2/3. See article 174.

Roadrunner 02:11, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Chinese names
I realise this article is a work-in-progress, but it is really not acceptable to have all these untransliterated Chinese names in an English-language encyclopaedia article. All Chinese names should be rendered in the Roman alphabet. Adam 00:17, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, the tables are far from complete and should be in English. If someone has the time, please visit here to complete the tables. However, the government gives out all the names in Tongyong Pinyin, which almost no one uses. Someone with even more time should try googling the Chinese at http://news.google.com or look for incumbents at here or other famous people here (the stuff in parenthesis is most common, the stuff not in parenthesis is in Tongyong Pinyin) to find the most common transliteration. The overseas Chinese people probably have English names as a number of them reside in the US, but they're mostly too obscure for us to figure out from the internet. I won't be able to do much until Friday--Jiang 00:53, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Can someone give me a pinyin rendering of Non-Partisan Solidarity Union? Also can someone give me the number of registered voters, which the government elections website doesn't give, in English anyway. Adam 01:13, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * pinyin for Non-Partisan Solidarity Union has been added to the Non-Partisan Solidarity Union article.

 * here are some rough numbers to answer your second question. they should have better numbers somewhere. the number registered voters equals the number of citizens they have on file age 20+ (i.e. w/ a ID card)--registration is automatic. --Jiang

Thanks. Adam 02:28, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Next question: who are these "plains Aboriginals" and "mountain Aboriginals"? As an Australian, seeing the word Aboriginal used in this way is rather disconcerting, although I realise the term can be used for any indigenous people. I presume these are translations of Chinese terms. What are these peoples actually called? If I were to call them "indigenous Taiwanese" would that be an acceptable term? Adam 09:24, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Some live in the plain areas while others live in the highlands. I think the wiki article on Taiwanese aborgine does a pretty good job at describing the two. ANd yes they are transliterated from Taiwanese. I think it's okay to call them indigenous Taiwanese, but not native Taiwanese since that's reserved for non-mainlander Han chinese people. Taiwan's pretty complicated for such a small island. Wareware 03:10, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I have worked up the results into a more meaningful format at my website. Feel free to adapt these tables for this article. Adam 11:39, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Removed "far-right" and "center-left", the blue/green division doesn't fit neatly into the left/right dichotomy. For example the DPP has tended to favor privatization more than the KMT.

Roadrunner 06:56, 19 July 2005 (UTC)

removed statement
About KMT-PFP merging. All of the pro-LTH people left the KMT around 2002 I don't think that there is a such as thing as a PFP-hardliner" that is much different from a KMT-hardliner. Roadrunner 00:32, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:2020 Taiwan presidential election which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 22:35, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 18:07, 12 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Sunrise Island.svg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion: You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:37, 2 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Sunrise Island.svg


text:
Talk:Joseph Aspdin

Reading through this article, I notice that almost every point made is incorrect. I propose to re-write it totally, if there are no objections. . . . LinguisticDemographer 20:14, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

I have made this change: I think I have retained all the points in the original article, where they were correct. References to William Aspdin and his business practices belong in his own article. . . . LinguisticDemographer 23:24, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

Incorrect date
In line 4 in the biography the author writes about the years 187. Seems to be incorrect. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Olmp (talk • contribs) 10:25, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

title: Talk:Joseph Aspdin


text:
Category:Twin Peaks

Articles related to the television series Twin Peaks.

__NOGALLERY__

title: Category:Twin Peaks


text: Template:Timeline of the Old Swiss Confederacy


text:
Talk:Arabic language of the Book of Mormon

The Book of Mormon describes Lehi as a Manassite merchant living in the Kingdom of Judah, and was familiar with the language of Judah's neighbors, particularly the Egyptian language - but at the supposed time of the story in the Book, the language of Egypt would not have been Arabic. RickK 07:26, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * Of course not. Ancient Egyptian was the language of Egypt.  Earlier forms of Arabic would have been the language of nomadic peoples in the Arabian peninsula, where most of the First Book of Nephi takes place. - Gilgamesh 11:58, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Then the above-quoted sentence has nothing to do with the subject of this article. RickK 19:51, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * Sure it does. It establishes Lehi as a traveling merchant who is multilingual.  It is also significant because Nephi is an Egyptian name.  If that is not satisfactory, we can instead simply state that he was very multilingual.  But I don't think the sentence itself should be removed. - Gilgamesh 00:30, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure what to do with this page. (1) I don't believe it's true that "[i]n Latter-day Saint theology" the Arabic language is considered to play a significant role in the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon doesn't mention "Arabic" at all--it only refers to "Reformed Egyptian". The only reference to "Arabic" made in the LDS scriptures is to JS-H 1: 64 "characters on plates resemble Arabic". (2) Stuff like Nephi, Abinadi, and Sam being Arabic-influenced is possible, but not doctrinal. That should be rewritten to make it clear who believes they're Arabic-influenced, and why. So far there are no sources to check up on. (3) While I've read the Arabic translation of the Book of Mormon, I see nothing remarkable linguistically about it... what makes it of "particular interest to religious LDS linguistics studies"? It's not some magical restoration of the original text--it's a translation from the English text into Arabic. A translation of a translation of a translation. (4) We already have a "Linguistics and the Book of Mormon" page, and I thought we had a "Languages of the Book of Mormon" page as well, although I can't seem to find it at the moment. Shouldn't this information be merged into that article?

So, should I make edits I think appropriate to this page here? Does it even have enough worth to remain an article? Is there any information important enough to merge with "Linguistics and the Book of Mormon"? --Dlugar 03:58, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I say make some changes Trödel| talk 14:18, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

I believe the "Languages of the Book of Mormon" page I was thinking of now exists as Reformed Egyptian. --Dlugar 04:03, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Porfirio Barba Jacob

Porfirio Barba Jacob

 * Delete. Spanish-language (I'd translate if it were worth it but...), mostly poetry, probably a copyvio (although Google doesn't find it on line so I'm going the VfD route instead as a quicker way to be rid of this). Utterly non-encyclopedic. If someone can find a grounds for speedy deletion, fine with me. -- Jmabel | Talk 07:29, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)
 * I've copyvio'd it. The link was right in the article --jpgordon{gab} 23:44, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * But the link doesn't have this text, or I would have copyvio'd -- Jmabel | Talk 18:21, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I had to drill down a bit to find it among the poets. --jpgordon{gab} 20:55, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)


text:
Wellington Willoughby

Wellington Bartley Willoughby, (August 10, 1859 – August 1, 1932) was a Canadian politician and lawyer.

He ran for a seat in the Dominion House of Commons for the Conservative Party in the 1895 election, but an unofficial Tory, William Stubbs backed by the Orange Order such as its Grand Master N.C. Wallace and McCarthyite leader Dalton McCarthy undermined his campaign, though he was also an Orangeman.

Willoughby served as leader of the Saskatchewan Conservative Party and leader of the opposition from 1912 to 1917 and was Member of the Legislative Assembly of Saskatchewan (MLA) for the city of Moose Jaw.

He resigned from the Saskatchewan legislature shortly after his re-election in the 1917 election in order to accept an appointment to the Senate of Canada by Sir Robert Borden.

In 1929, the leader of the federal Conservative Party, Richard Bennett, appointed Willoughby to the position of Leader of the Opposition in the Senate. When Bennett became Prime Minister of Canada following the 1930 federal election, Willoughby became Government Leader in the Senate and a minister without portfolio in the Canadian Cabinet.

Personal life
Willoughby was born August 10, 1859 in Caledon, Ontario, to John and Margaret Willoughby, two Episcopalian Methodists who worked as farmers. He had 7 siblings; William, who was 4 years older, Lydia, Samuel, Caroline, Wesley, John, and Margaret, who were all younger.

In October 1892, Wellington married Susan Thomas Jones of Germantown, Philadelphia. His wife would pass away June 27, 1907, of Endocarditis.

He died August 1, 1932, of throat cancer. He is buried at the Rosedale Cemetery in Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan.

title: Wellington Willoughby


text:
Hairy cell leukemia

Hairy cell leukemia is an uncommon hematological malignancy characterized by an accumulation of abnormal B lymphocytes. It is usually classified as a subtype of chronic lymphocytic leukemia (CLL). Hairy cell leukemia makes up about 2% of all leukemias, with fewer than 2,000 new cases diagnosed annually in North America and Western Europe combined.

Hairy cell leukemia (HCL) was originally described as histiocytic leukemia, malignant reticulosis, or lymphoid myelofibrosis in publications dating back to the 1920s. The disease was formally named leukemic reticuloendotheliosis, and its characterization was significantly advanced by Bertha Bouroncle and colleagues at the Ohio State University College of Medicine in 1958. Its common name, which was coined in 1966, is derived from the "hairy" appearance of the malignant B cells under a microscope.

Signs and symptoms
In HCL, the "hairy cells" (malignant B lymphocytes) accumulate in the bone marrow, interfering with the production of normal white blood cells, red blood cells, and platelets. Consequently, patients may develop infections related to low white blood cell count, anemia and fatigue due to a lack of red blood cells, or easy bleeding due to a low platelet count.

Platelet function may be somewhat impaired in HCL patients, although this does not appear to have any significant practical effect.

Patients with a high tumor burden may also have somewhat reduced levels of cholesterol, especially in patients with an enlarged spleen.

Cause
As with many cancers, the cause of HCL is unknown. Exposure to tobacco smoke, ionizing radiation, or industrial chemicals (with the possible exception of diesel) does not appear to increase the risk of developing it. Farming and gardening correlate with an increased risk of HCL development in some studies which does not necessarily imply causation.

A 2011 study identified somatic BRAF V600E mutations in all 47 HCL patients studied, and no such mutations in the 193 peripheral B-cell lymphomas/leukemias other than HCL.

The U.S. Institute of Medicine (IOM) found a correlation which permits an association between exposure to herbicides and later development of chronic B-cell leukemias and lymphomas in general. The IOM report emphasizes that neither animal nor human studies indicate an association of herbicides with HCL specifically. However, the IOM extrapolated data from chronic lymphocytic leukemia and non-Hodgkin lymphoma to conclude that HCL and other rare B-cell neoplasms may share this risk factor.

Human T-lymphotropic virus 2 (HTLV-2) has been isolated in a small number of patients with the variant form of HCL. In the 1980s, HTLV-2 was identified in a patient with a T-cell lymphoproliferative disease; this patient later developed HCL, but HTLV-2 was not found in the hairy cell clones. There is no evidence that HTLV-II causes any sort of hematological malignancy, including HCL.

Pathophysiology
Pancytopenia in HCL is caused primarily by marrow failure and splenomegaly. Bone-marrow failure is caused by the accumulation of hairy cells and reticulin fibrosis in the bone marrow, as well as by the detrimental effects of dysregulated cytokine production. Splenomegaly reduces blood counts through sequestration, marginalization, and destruction of healthy blood cells inside the spleen.

Hairy cells are nearly mature B cells, which are activated clonal cells with signs of VH gene differentiation. They may be related to pre-plasma marginal zone B cells or memory B cells.

Cytokine production is disturbed in HCL. Hairy cells produce and thrive on TNF-alpha. This cytokine also suppresses normal production of healthy blood cells in the bone marrow.

Unlike healthy B cells, hairy cells express and secrete an immune system protein called interleukin-2 receptor (IL-2R). In HCL-V, only part of this receptor is expressed. As a result, disease status can be monitored by measuring changes in the amount of IL-2R in the blood serum.

Hairy cells respond to normal production of some cytokines by T cells with increased growth. Treatment with interferon-alpha suppresses the production of this pro-growth cytokine from T cells. A low level of T cells, which is commonly seen after treatment with cladribine or pentostatin, and the consequent reduction of these cytokines, is also associated with reduced levels of hairy cells.

In June 2011, E Tiacci et al discovered that 100% of HCL samples analysed had the oncogenic BRAF mutation V600E, and proposed that this is the disease's driver mutation. Until this point, only a few genomic imbalances had been found in the hairy cells, such as trisomy 5 had been found. The expression of genes is also dysregulated in a complex and specific pattern. The cells underexpress 3p24, 3p21, 3q13.3-q22, 4p16, 11q23, 14q22-q24, 15q21-q22, 15q24-q25, and 17q22-q24 and overexpress 13q31 and Xq13.3-q21. It has not yet been demonstrated that any of these changes have any practical significance to the patient.

Diagnosis
The diagnosis of HCL may be suggested by abnormal results on a complete blood count (CBC), but additional testing is necessary to confirm the diagnosis. A CBC normally shows low counts for white blood cells, red blood cells, and platelets in HCL patients. However, if large numbers of hairy cells are in the blood stream, then normal or even high lymphocyte counts may be found.

On physical examination, 80–90% of patients have an enlarged spleen, which can be massive. This is less likely among patients who are diagnosed at an early stage. Peripheral lymphadenopathy (enlarged lymph nodes) is uncommon (less than 5% of patients), but abdominal lymphadenopathy is a relatively common finding on computed tomography scans.

The most important laboratory finding is the presence of hairy cells in the bloodstream. Hairy cells are abnormal white blood cells with hair-like projections of cytoplasm; they can be seen by examining a blood smear or bone marrow biopsy specimen. The blood film examination is done by staining the blood cells with Wright's stain and looking at them under a microscope. Hairy cells are visible in this test in about 85% of cases.

Most patients require a bone-marrow biopsy for final diagnosis. The bone marrow biopsy is used both to confirm the presence of HCL and also the absence of any additional diseases, such as Splenic marginal zone lymphoma or B-cell prolymphocytic leukemia. The diagnosis can be confirmed by viewing the cells with a special stain known as tartrate resistant acid phosphatase (TRAP). More recently, DB44 testing assures more accurate results.

Definitively diagnosing HCL is also possible through flow cytometry on blood or bone marrow. The hairy cells are larger than normal and positive for CD19, CD20, CD22, CD11c, CD25, CD103, and FMC7 antigens. (CD103, CD22, and CD11c are strongly expressed.)

Hairy cell leukemia-variant (HCL-V), which shares some characteristics with B cell prolymphocytic leukemia (B-PLL), does not show CD25 (also called the interleukin-2 receptor, alpha).

The differential diagnoses include several kinds of anemia, including myelophthisis and aplastic anemia, and most kinds of blood neoplasms, including hypoplastic myelodysplastic syndrome, atypical chronic lymphocytic leukemia, B-cell prolymphocytic leukemia, or idiopathic myelofibrosis.

Classification
When not further specified, the "classic" form is often implied, but two variants have been described: Hairy cell leukemia-variant and a Japanese variant. The non-Japanese variant is more difficult to treat than either 'classic' HCL or the Japanese HCL.

HCL-V
Hairy cell leukemia-variant (HCL-V) is usually described as a prolymphocytic variant of HCL. It was first formally described in 1980 by a paper from the University of Cambridge's Hayhoe laboratory. About 10% of people with HCL have this variant form of the disease, representing about 60-75 new cases of HCL-V each year in the U.S. While classic HCL primarily affects men, HCL-V is more evenly divided between males and females. While the disease can appear at any age, the median age at diagnosis is over 70.

Similar to B-cell prolymphocytic leukemia (B-PLL) in chronic lymphocytic leukemia, HCL-V is a more aggressive disease. Historically, it has been considered less likely to be treated successfully than is classic HCL, and remissions have tended to be shorter. The introduction of combination therapy with concurrent rituximab and cladribine therapy, though, has shown excellent results in early follow-up. As of 2016, this therapy is considered the first-line treatment of choice for many people with HCL-V.

Many older treatment approaches, such as interferon-alpha, the combination chemotherapy regimen "CHOP", and common alkylating agents such as cyclophosphamide, showed very little benefit. Pentostatin and cladribine administered as monotherapy (without concurrent rituximab) provide some benefit to many people with HCL-V, but typically induce shorter remission periods and lower response rates than when they are used in classic HCL. More than half of people respond partially to splenectomy.

HCL-V differs from classic HCL principally in these respects:
 * Higher white blood cell counts, sometimes exceeding 100,000 cells per microliter
 * A more aggressive course of disease requiring more frequent treatment
 * Hairy cells with an unusually large nucleolus for their size
 * Production of little excess fibronectin produced by classic hairy cells to interfere with bone marrow biopsies
 * Low or no cell-surface expression of CD25 (interleukin-2 [IL-2] receptor alpha chain, or p55).

Low levels of CD25, a part of the receptor for a key immunoregulating hormone, may explain why HCL-V cases are generally much more resistant to treatment by immune-system hormones.

HCL-V, which usually features a high proportion of hairy cells without a functional p53 tumor suppressor gene, is somewhat more likely to transform into a higher-grade malignancy. A typical transformation rate of 5-6% has been postulated in the UK, similar to the Richter's transformation rate for splenic lymphoma with villous lymphocytes (SLVL) and CLL. Among HCL-V patients, the most aggressive cases normally have the least amount of p53 gene activity. Hairy cells without the p53 gene tend, over time, to displace the less aggressive p53(+) hairy cells.

Some evidence suggests that a rearrangement of the immunoglobulin gene VH4-34, which is found in about 40% of HCL-V patients and 10% of classic HCL patients, may be a more important poor prognostic factor than variant status, with HCL-V patients without the VH4-34 rearrangement responding about as well as classic HCL patients.

Hairy cell leukemia-Japanese variant
The variant called hairy cell leukemia-Japanese variant, or HCL-J, is more easily treated. Treatment with cladribine has been reported.

Prevention
Because the cause is unknown, no effective preventive measures can be taken, but the U.S. Institute of Medicine permits an association to exposure to herbicides such as atrazine. The U.S. Department of Veterans Affairs also considers it a service disability related to Agent Orange. Because the disease is rare, routine screening is not cost effective.

Treatment
Several treatments are available, and successful control of the disease is common.
 * Not everyone needs treatment immediately. Treatment is usually given when the symptoms of the disease interfere with the patient's everyday life, or when white blood cell or platelet counts decline to dangerously low levels, such as an absolute neutrophil count below 1000 cells per microliter (1.0 K/μL). Not all patients need treatment immediately upon diagnosis.
 * Treatment delays are less important than in solid tumors. Unlike most cancers, treatment success does not depend on treating the disease at an early stage. Because delays do not affect treatment success, no standards exist for how quickly a patient should receive treatment.  Waiting too long, though, can cause its own problems, such as an infection that might have been avoided by proper treatment to restore immune-system function.  Also, having a higher number of hairy cells at the time of treatment can make certain side effects somewhat worse, as some side effects are primarily caused by the body's natural response to the dying hairy cells.  This can result in the hospitalization of a patient whose treatment would otherwise be carried out entirely at the hematologist's office.
 * Single-drug treatment is typical. Unlike most cancers, only one drug is normally given to a patient at a time. While monotherapy is normal, combination therapy—typically using one first-line therapy and one second-line therapy—is being studied in current clinical trials, and is used more frequently for refractory cases.  Combining rituximab with cladribine or pentostatin may or may not produce any practical benefit to the patient. Combination therapy is almost never used with a new patient.  Because the success rates with purine analog monotherapy are already so high, the additional benefit from immediate treatment with a second drug in a treatment-naïve patient is assumed to be very low.  For example, one round of either cladribine or pentostatin gives the median first-time patient a decade-long remission; the addition of rituximab, which gives the median patient only three or four years, might provide no additional value for this easily treated patient.  In a more difficult case, however, the benefit from the first drug may be substantially reduced, so a combination may provide some benefit.

First-line therapy
Cladribine (2CDA) and pentostatin (DCF) are the two most common first-line therapies. They both belong to a class of medications called purine analogs, which have mild side effects compared to traditional chemotherapy regimens.

Cladribine can be administered by injection under the skin, by infusion over a few hours into a vein (inravenous - IV), or by a pump worn by the patient that provides a slow drip into a vein, 24 hours a day for 7 days. Most patients receive cladribine by IV infusion once a day for five to seven days, but more patients are being given the option of taking this drug once a week for six weeks. The different dosing schedules used with cladribine are roughly equally effective and safe. Relatively few patients have significant side effects other than fatigue and a high fever caused by the cancer cells dying, although complications such as infection and acute kidney failure have been seen. Pentostatin is chemically similar to cladribine, and has a similar success rate and side effect profile, but it is always given over a much longer period of time, usually one dose by IV infusion every two weeks for 3–6 months.

During the weeks following treatment, the patients' immune systems are severely weakened, but their bone marrow will begin to produce normal blood cells again. Treatment often results in long-term remission. About 85% of patients achieve a complete response from treatment with either cladribine or pentostatin, and another 10% receive some benefit from these drugs, although no permanent cure for this disease is known. If the cancer cells return, the treatment may be repeated and should again result in remission, although the odds of success decline with repeated treatment. Remission lengths vary significantly, from one year to more than twenty years. The median patient can expect a treatment-free interval of about ten years.

Cladribine induced complete responses in patients with hairy cell leukemia resistant to DCF, suggesting a lack of cross-resistance. Also, 2-CdA is not prohibitively toxic in patients intolerant of DCF (Pentostatin).

Second-line therapy
If a patient is resistant to either cladribine or pentostatin, then second-line therapy is pursued.
 * Monoclonal antibodies: The most common treatment for cladribine-resistant disease is infusing monoclonal antibodies that destroy cancerous B cells. Rituximab is by far the most commonly used.  Most patients receive one IV infusion over several hours each week for 4–8 weeks.  Two partial and 10 complete responses resulted fromf 15 patients with relapsed disease, for a total of 80% responding.  The median patient (including nonresponders) did not require further treatment for more than 3 years.  This eight-dose study had a higher response rate than a four-dose study at Scripps, which achieved only 25% response rate.  Rituximab has successfully induced a complete response in Hairy Cell-Variant.

Rituximab's major side effect is serum sickness, commonly described as an "allergic reaction", which can be severe, especially on the first infusion. Serum sickness is primarily caused by the antibodies clumping during infusion and triggering the complement cascade. Although most patients find that side effects are adequately controlled by antiallergy drugs, some severe, and even fatal, reactions have occurred. Consequently, the first dose is always given in a hospital setting, although subsequent infusions may be given in a physician's office. Remissions are usually shorter than with the preferred first-line drugs, but hematologic remissions of several years' duration are not uncommon. Other B cell-destroying monoclonal antibodies such as alemtuzumab, ibritumomab tiuxetan and I-131 tositumomab may be considered for refractory cases.
 * Interferon-alpha is an immune system hormone that is very helpful to a relatively small number of patients, and somewhat helpful to most patients. In about 65% of patients, the drug helps stabilize the disease or produce a slow, minor improvement for a partial response. Some patients can achieve the negativization of minimal residual disease by BRAF-V600E status

The typical dosing schedule injects at least 3 million units of interferon-alpha (not pegylated versions) three times a week, although the original protocol began with 6 months of daily injections.

Some patients tolerate IFN-alpha very well after the first fw weeks, while others find that its characteristic flu-like symptoms persist. About 10% of patients develop a level of depression. By maintaining a steadier level of the hormone in the body, daily injections might cause fewer side effects in selected patients. Drinking at least 2 liters of water each day, while avoiding caffeine and alcohol, can reduce many of the side effects.

A drop in blood counts is usually seen during the first 1–2 months of treatment. Most patients find that their blood counts get worse for a few weeks immediately after starting treatment, although some patients find their blood counts begin to improve within just 2 weeks.

Typically, 6 months are neededto figure out whether this therapy is useful. Common criteria for treatment success include:
 * Normalization of hemoglobin levels (above 12.0 g/dL),
 * A normal or somewhat low platelet count (above 100 K/μL), and
 * A normal or somewhat low absolute neutrophil count (above 1.5 K/μL).

If it is well tolerated, patients usually take the hormone for 12 to 18 months. An attempt may be made then to end the treatment, but most patients discover that they need to continue taking the drug for it to be successful. These patients often continue taking this drug indefinitely, until either the disease becomes resistant to this hormone, or the body produces an immune system response that limits the drug's ability to function. A few patients are able to achieve a sustained clinical remission after taking this drug for six months to one year. This may be more likely when IFN-alpha has been initiated shortly after another therapy. IFN-alpha is considered the drug of choice for pregnant women with active HCL, although it carries some risks, such as the potential for decreased blood flow to the placenta.

IFN-alpha works by sensitizing the hairy cells to the killing effect of the immune-system hormone TNF-alpha, whose production it promotes. IFN-alpha works best on classic hairy cells that are not protectively adhered to vitronectin or fibronectin, which suggests that patients who encounter less fibrous tissue in their bone-marrow biopsies may be more likely to respond to IFN-alpha therapy. It also explains why unadhered hairy cells, such as those in the bloodstream, disappear during IFN-alpha treatment well before reductions are seen in adhered hairy cells, such as those in the bone marrow and spleen.

Other treatments
Splenectomy can produce long-term remissions in patients whose spleens seem to be heavily involved, but its success rate is noticeably lower than cladribine or pentostatin. Splenectomies are also performed for patients whose persistently enlarged spleens cause significant discomfort or in patients whose persistently low platelet counts suggest idiopathic thrombocytopenic purpura.

Bone marrow transplants are usually shunned in this highly treatable disease because of the inherent risks in the procedure. They may be considered for refractory cases in younger, otherwise healthy individuals. "Minitransplants" are possible.

People with low numbers of red blood cells or platelets may also receive red blood cells and platelets through blood transfusions. Blood transfusions are always irradiated to remove white blood cells and thereby reduce the risk of graft-versus-host disease. Affected people may also receive a hormone to stimulate production of red blood cells. These treatments may be medically necessary, but do not kill the hairy cells.

People with low neutrophil counts may be given filgrastim or a similar hormone to stimulate production of white blood cells. However, a 1999 study indicates that routine administration of this expensive injected drug has no practical value for HCL patients after cladribine administration. In this study, patients who received filgrastim were just as likely to experience a high fever and to be admitted to the hospital as those who did not, even though the drug artificially inflated their white blood cell counts. This study leaves open the possibility that filgrastim may still be appropriate for patients who have symptoms of infection, or at times other than shortly after cladribine treatment.

Although hairy cells are technically long-lived, instead of rapidly dividing, some late-stage patients are treated with broad-spectrum chemotherapy agents such as methotrexate that are effective at killing rapidly dividing cells. This is not typically attempted unless all other options have been exhausted and it is typically unsuccessful.

Treatment success
More than 95% of new patients are treated well or at least adequately by cladribine or pentostatin. A majority of new patients can expect a disease-free remission time span of about ten years, or sometimes much longer after taking one of these drugs just once. If retreatment is necessary in the future, the drugs are normally effective again, although the average length of remission is somewhat shorter in subsequent treatments. There is also the risk of Shingles, and Peripheral Neuropathy after treatment with cladribine.

As with B-cell chronic lymphocytic leukemia, mutations in the IGHV on hairy cells are associated with better responses to initial treatments and with prolonged survival.

How soon after treatment a patient feels "normal" again depends on several factors, including:
 * how advanced the disease was at the time of treatment;
 * the patient's underlying health status;
 * whether the patient had a "complete response" or only a partial response to the treatment;
 * whether the patient experienced any of the rare, but serious side effects such as kidney failure;
 * how aggressive the individual's disease is;
 * whether the patient is experiencing unusual psychological trauma from the "cancer" diagnosis; and
 * how the patient perceived his or her pre-treatment energy level and daily functioning.

Lifespan
With appropriate treatment, the overall projected lifespan for patients is normal or near-normal. In all patients, the first two years after diagnosis have the highest risk for fatal outcome; generally, surviving five years predicts good control of the disease. After five years' clinical remission, patients in the United States with normal blood counts can often qualify for private life insurance with some US companies.

Accurately measuring survival for patients with the variant form of the disease (HCL-V) is complicated by the relatively high median age (70 years old) at diagnosis. However, HCL-V patients routinely survive for more than 10 years, and younger patients can likely expect a long life.

Follow-up care
Despite decade-long remissions and years of living very normal lives after treatment, hairy cell leukemia is officially considered an incurable disease. While survivors of solid tumors are commonly declared to be permanently cured after two, three, or five years, people who have hairy cell leukemia are never considered 'cured'. Relapses of HCL have happened even after more than twenty years of continuous remission. Patients will require lifelong monitoring and should be aware that the disease can recur even after decades of good health.

While most oncologists consider Hairy Cell Leukemia to be incurable, there is some evidence that some patients are in fact cured after treatments. Of the original 358-patient cohort treated with cladribine at the Scripps Clinic, 9 of 19 in continuous CR for a median of 16 years were free of HCL — even sensitive testing for measurable or minimal residual disease (MRD) found an absence of hairy cells. This suggests that the disease of at least some patients may be cured.

People in remission need regular follow-up examinations after their treatment is over. Most physicians insist on seeing patients at least once a year for the rest of the patient's life, and getting blood counts about twice a year. Regular follow-up care ensures that patients are carefully monitored, any changes in health are discussed, and new or recurrent cancer can be detected and treated as soon as possible. Between regularly scheduled appointments, people who have hairy cell leukemia should report any health problems, especially viral or bacterial infections, as soon as they appear.

HCL patients are also at a slightly higher than average risk for developing a second kind of cancer, such as colon cancer or lung cancer, at some point during their lives (including before their HCL diagnosis). This appears to relate best to the number of hairy cells, and not to different forms of treatment. On average, patients might reasonably expect to have as much as double the risk of developing another cancer, with a peak about two years after HCL diagnosis and falling steadily after that, assuming that the HCL was successfully treated. Aggressive surveillance and prevention efforts are generally warranted, although the lifetime odds of developing a second cancer after HCL diagnosis are still less than 50%.

There is also a higher risk of developing an autoimmune disease. Polyarteritis nodosa has been associated with underlying hairy cell leukemia in certain cases. Autoimmune diseases may also go into remission after treatment of HCL.

Epidemiology
This disease is rare, with fewer than 1 in 10,000 people being diagnosed with HCL during their lives. Men are four to five times more likely to develop hairy cell leukemia than women. In the United States, the annual incidence is approximately 3 cases per 1,000,000 men each year, and 0.6 cases per 1,000,000 women each year.

Most patients are white males over the age of 50, although it has been diagnosed in at least one teenager. It is less common in people of African and Asian descent compared to people of European descent.

It does not appear to be hereditary, although occasional familial cases that suggest a predisposition have been reported, usually showing a common Human Leukocyte Antigen (HLA) type.

Research directions
The Hairy Cell Leukemia Consortium was founded in 2008 to address researchers' concerns about the long-term future of research on the disease. Partly because existing treatments are so successful, the field has attracted very few new researchers.

In 2013 the Hairy Cell Leukemia Foundation was created when the Hairy Cell Leukemia Consortium and the Hairy Cell Leukemia Research Foundation joined. The HCLF is dedicated to improving outcomes for patients by advancing research into the causes and treatment of hairy cell leukemia, as well as by providing educational resources and comfort to all those affected by hairy cell leukemia.

Three immunotoxin drugs have been studied in patients at the NIH National Cancer Institute in the U.S.: BL22, HA22 and LMB-2. All of these protein-based drugs combine part of an anti-B cell antibody with a bacterial toxin to kill the cells on internalization. BL22 and HA22 attack a common protein called CD22, which is present on hairy cells and healthy B cells. LMB-2 attacks a protein called CD25, which is not present in HCL-variant, so LMB-2 is only useful for patients with HCL-classic or the Japanese variant. HA-22, now renamed moxetumomab pasudotox, is being studied in patients with relapsed hairy cell leukemia at the National Cancer Institute in Bethesda, Maryland, MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas, and Ohio State University in Columbus, Ohio. Other sites for the study are expected to start accepting patients in late 2014, including The Royal Marsden Hospital in London, England.

Other clinical trials are studying the effectiveness of cladribine followed by rituximab in eliminating residual hairy cells that remain after treatment by cladribine or pentostatin. It is not currently known if the elimination of such residual cells will result in more durable remissions.

BRAF mutation has been frequently detected in HCL (Tiacci et al. NEJM 2011) and some patients may respond to Vemurafenib.

The major remaining research questions are identifying the cause of HCL and determining what prevents hairy cells from maturing normally.

title: Hairy cell leukemia


text: Category:Soviet phraseology

title: Category:Soviet phraseology


text:
Adson's sign

Adson's sign is the loss of the radial pulse in the arm by rotating head to the ipsilateral side with extended neck following deep inspiration.

It is sometimes used as a sign of thoracic outlet syndrome (TOS). It is named after Alfred Washington Adson.

Limitations, and pathophysiology of thoracic outlet syndrome
Adson's sign is no longer used as a positive diagnosis of TOS since many people without TOS will show a positive Adson's.

There is minimal evidence of interexaminer reliability.

Thoracic outlet obstruction may be caused by a number of abnormalities, including degenerative or bony disorders, trauma to the cervical spine, fibromuscular bands, vascular abnormalities, and spasm of the anterior scalene muscle. Symptoms are due to compression of the brachial plexus and subclavian vasculature, and consist of complaints ranging from diffuse arm pain to a sensation of arm fatigue, frequently aggravated by carrying anything in the ipsilateral hand or doing overhead work such as window cleaning.

Process

 * The patient is placed in a sitting position, hands resting on thighs.
 * The examiner palpates radial pulse on side being tested
 * Patient actively rotates head to ipsilateral side being tested while the examiner laterally rotates and extends the patient's shoulder
 * Patient takes a deep breath and is instructed to hold it

The test is positive if radicular symptoms are reported and secondary to a diminished or loss of the radial pulse.

title: Adson's sign


text: User talk:68.78.134.56

title: User talk:68.78.134.56


text:
Rota, Andalusia

The town of Rota is a Spanish municipality located in the Province of Cádiz, Andalusia. Its surface area is 84 km2 and is bordered by the towns of Chipiona, Sanlúcar de Barrameda and El Puerto de Santa María. It is located near the city of Jerez de la Frontera and is 36 kilometers away from the provincial capital, Cadiz. It had in the year 2009 28,516 inhabitants, with a density of 339 inhabitants / km2. It belongs to two associations, the Association of Municipalities of Cadiz Bay along with the municipalities of Cadiz, Jerez de la Frontera, El Puerto de Santa María, San Fernando, Chiclana and Puerto Real; and the Association of Municipalities of the Lower Guadalquivir that comprises municipalities of Northwest Coast of Andalusia.

Located along the Bay of Cádiz in the Atlantic Ocean, it is halfway between Portugal and Gibraltar, is predominantly a tourist town, a vacation/holiday destination for travelers from all over Europe. During the low season, its main business activity is the fishing industry. In the municipality is located the Naval Station Rota, which is the largest source of employment to the municipality. It also served as a transoceanic abort landing site for the Space Shuttle program.

History
Archaeological evidence suggests that there was a Bronze Age settlement on the present site of Rota. The current town was founded by the Phoenicians at approximately the same time as Cádiz. Rota is assumed to be the same city known as Astaroth of the Tartesian empire. It later passed to the Romans, who knew the town as Speculum Rotae.

Following the arrival of the Moors in Spain, the city became known as Rabita Rutta ("watchtower of Rota"), from which it derives its present name. In 1217 the city was raided by a group of Frisian Crusaders en route to the Holy Land. From 1248 onwards, the Moors were gradually expelled from Spain, and the city became Christian. In 1297, Sancho IV awarded the town to Alonso Pérez de Guzmán in honour of his defence of Tarifa. Later, Pérez de Guzmán gave it to his daughter, Isabel, as a wedding present when she married Fermin Ponce de León, Maestre of Alcántara and First Lord of Marchena. Construction of the Castillo de la Luna (Castle of the Moon) had begun in 1295, two years prior to the bequest to Pérez de Guzmán, as part of Sancho IV's effort to develop strong coastal defenses, especially near the entrance to the Mediterranean Sea. During the Middle Ages, the town was an important port for trading with North Africa. In 1780 the 11th Duke of Arcos died without issue, and the city was rendered to the Duke of Osuna.

Economy
Rota is primarily a resort town, offering eight hotels and nearly two thousand beds. It is a summer destination for tourists from all over Europe. During the off-season, its main commercial activity centres on the fishing industry.

Rota is also the location of the Rota naval base, a joint Spanish and U.S. naval base, opened in 1955 (which also hosts U.S. Marine Corps and U.S. Air Force units). It is also the usual first and last port of call for U.S. naval vessels after leaving the Mediterranean Sea. Once contributing up to 80 percent of Rota's economy directly or indirectly, the significant decrease in the American presence since about 1995, and the city's modern infrastructures that enable those remaining to commute readily from surrounding towns and cities, the base has given way to tourism as the leading source of revenue.

The surrounding area is used for agriculture; the predominant crops are cotton and sunflowers, as well as sweet green peppers, tomatoes, and pumpkins.

Climate
Rota has a hot-summer mediterranean climate (Köppen Csa) with mild winters and hot summers. Rota has significant maritime influences from the Atlantic Ocean. The average temperature during the coldest month (January) is around 11 C while the average temperature during the hottest month (August) is around 25 C. Rota is very sunny, as the annual sunshine hours are above 3,000h. The average sea temperature is around 16 C during the winter and around 23 C during the summer.

Culinary
A traditional dish is the arranque made with chopped bread, tomatoes, green peppers, garlic, salt and olive oil. The local wine, known as tintilla, is made with dark, ripe grapes. It can be found in the numerous bodegas spread over the old town, one of them being El Gato which produces its own wine.

Spanish, Andalucian, Cádiz, and Rota gastronomic delights are many and varied. Most Spanish people enjoy dishes such as caracoles (snails), menudo (tripe soup), chicharrón (deep fried pork rinds), a variety of wines, and of course gazpacho (cold tomato soup taken as a drink).

Arts
The Foundation Ruiz Mateos delivers a biannual award called Villa de Rota in the field of the plastic arts, music and literature. This constitutes nowadays an extensive art collection which is being shown in the Museum Ruiz Mateos since opened its doors on 4 February 2005. This museum gathers a total of 102 works composed of oil paintings, watercolors, engravings and sculptures, and includes all first prizes awarded in the course of the national contests “Villa de Rota” as well as individual donations received. Among other artists, Antonio Utrera, Francisco Luque and Dominika Grisgrabed have won the contest.

Politics
Traditionally the town has four predominant parties: People's Party, Spanish Socialist Workers' Party, United Left, and the local Roteños Unidos (United Rotanians). While there are occasional independent parties, the only one to successfully enter the Town Council is Roteños Unidos.

Sports
Rota has two football (soccer) teams: CD Rota and UD Roteña, and also a basketball team: C.D. Don Bosco 88.

title: Rota, Andalusia


text:
Talk:1383–1385 Portuguese interregnum

Assessment comment
Substituted at 01:07, 22 May 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:1383–1385 Portuguese interregnum