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User talk:151.199.192.102

Proposed deletion of Bobby Jon Drinkard

The article Bobby Jon Drinkard has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Claim to fame is being on Survivor, there isn't any sources to indicate notability beyond that."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

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Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 00:37, 25 December 2018 (UTC)

Nomination of Bobby Jon Drinkard for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Bobby Jon Drinkard is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Bobby Jon Drinkard until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. Sportsfan 1234 (talk) 15:44, 1 January 2019 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Stephenie LaGrossa

The article Stephenie LaGrossa has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Non-notable reality television contestant; competed on, but did not win, Survivor."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. Bgsu98 (talk) 03:23, 25 July 2022 (UTC)

Nomination of Stephenie LaGrossa for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Stephenie LaGrossa is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Stephenie LaGrossa until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished. Bgsu98 (talk) 19:27, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:Stephenie LaGrossa
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title: User talk:151.199.192.102


text:
Robert Knox (sailor)

Robert Knox (8 February 1641 – 19 June 1720) was an English sea captain in the service of the British East India Company. He was the son of another sea captain, also named Robert Knox.

Life
Born at Tower Hill in London, the young Knox spent most of his childhood in Surrey and was taught by James Fleetwood, later the Bishop of Winchester. He joined his father's crew on the ship Anne for his first voyage to India in 1655, at the age of 14, before returning to England in 1657. That year, Oliver Cromwell issued a charter granting the East India Company a monopoly of the Eastern trade, requiring the elder Knox and his crew to join the service of the Company.

The two Knoxes sailed for Persia in January 1658. They suffered the loss of the ship's mast in a storm on 19 November 1659, forcing them to put ashore on Ceylon, now Sri Lanka. The ship was impounded and sixteen of the crew, including the Knoxes, were taken captive by the troops of the Kandy king, Rajasinghe II. The elder Knox had inadvertently angered the king by not observing the expected formalities and had the misfortune to do so during a period of tension between the king and some of the European powers. Although the crew was forbidden from leaving the kingdom, they were treated fairly leniently; the younger Knox was able to establish himself as a farmer, moneylender and pedlar. Both men suffered severely from malaria and the elder Knox died in February 1661 after a long illness.

Robert Knox eventually escaped with one companion, Stephen Rutland, after nineteen years of captivity. The two men were able to reach Arippu, a Dutch fort on the north-west coast of the island. The Dutch treated Knox generously and transported him to Batavia (now Jakarta) in the Dutch East Indies, from where he was able to return home on an English vessel, the Caesar. He arrived back in London in September 1680.

During the voyage Knox wrote the manuscript of An Historical Relation of the Island Ceylon, an account of his experiences on Ceylon, which was published in 1681. Recently, this book was translated to Sinhala as "Knox Dutu Lakdiva" by Premachandra Alwis. The book was accompanied by engravings showing the inhabitants, their customs and agricultural techniques. It attracted widespread interest at the time and made Knox internationally famous, influencing Daniel Defoe's Robinson Crusoe as well as sparking a friendship with Robert Hooke of the Royal Society. It is one of the earliest and most detailed European accounts of life on Ceylon and is today seen as an invaluable record of the island in the 17th century.

Knox became a close friend and collaborator of Robert Hooke, for whom he frequently brought back gifts from his travels. In return, Hooke took Knox to the local coffeehouses for chocolate and tobacco, then considered luxuries. On one occasion, Knox presented Hooke with samples of "a strange intoxicating herb like hemp" which he dubbed "Indian hemp" or "Bangue"; it is better known today as cannabis indica, a plant which was unknown at the time in Europe. Hooke gave an address to the Society in December 1689 in which he provided what was the first detailed description of cannabis in English, commending its possible curative properties and noting that Knox "has so often experimented it himself, that there is no Cause of Fear, tho' possibly there may be of Laughter." Knox also described termites, bees and ants in Ceylon. Knox was present when Hooke died on 3 March 1703 after a long illness and took on the responsibility of arranging his friend's burial.

Knox continued to work for the East India Company for thirteen years after his return from the East, captaining the ship Tonqueen Merchant for four further voyages to the East. He enjoyed only mixed success and quarrelled with the company, which eventually dismissed him in 1694. Four years later he set himself up on his own trading vessel, the Mary, but the venture was not a success. He returned permanently to England in 1701 and spent his retirement writing about Ceylon and his life. He died, prosperous but unmarried, at St Peter le Poer in the City of London in June 1720 and was buried at St Mary's Church, Wimbledon.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Robert Knox (sailor)


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User talk:Thequackdaddy

Welcome to Wikipedia, the greatest encyclopedia on Earth! You seem to be off to a good start. Hopefully you will soon join the vast army of Wikipediholics! You may wish to review the welcome page, tutorial, and stylebook, as well as the avoiding common mistakes and Wikipedia is not pages. The Wikipedia directory is also quite useful. In addition, you might want to add yourself to the new user log; if you made any edits before getting an account, you may wish to assign those to your username.

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Hope to see you around the Wiki! And if you have any questions whatsoever, feel free to contact me on my talk page!

Orphaned non-free media (Image:WashingtonAndLeeTrident.GIF)
Thanks for uploading Image:WashingtonAndLeeTrident.GIF. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

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Rod Blagojevich
Hey there, a few weeks ago you removed a large, messy section from the Blagojevich article, stating it was plaigarized from press releases. The user has reposted that section with a very non-AGF edit summary, and I agree that it definitely doesn't belong in an encyclopedia in its current form, but I wanted to see if you had verified that they were actual copyvios? (I did a quick search, but wasn't able to match it up to any specific press release). Anyway, if it is a blatant copyright violation, then it should definitely be removed ASAP. Thanks! Sheep NotGoats  (Talk) 00:08, 29 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you! Sheep NotGoats   (Talk) 13:57, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Thequackdaddy, your claims have a few things that make me curious. Press releases are public domain with information and numbers verified by the state, desgined for public use (and in the case of much of the media, often copying verbatim). Simply put, there is no copyright when it comes to press releases issued by an office. The links are provided right underneath each section, not even consigned to the notes section. So what is the exact rule. The credit is fully given. Furthermore, your (and SheepNotGoats') consistent monitoring of this page to remove postive elements but to protect under-referenced and biased negative content on this page has me very curious to who would spend so much energy doing so. You have stated that this section should not be a soapbox; what do you call the more blantantly biased negative postings on this page. It seems no one has a problem with information or the rules if the information is negative. I'd appreciate a response (and a more thorough explanation of what exact rules are being broken); for now, I will edit the information I am trying to include and continue to repost. Firebrandliberal (talk) 21:23, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

 * FYI, I've posted a response to this question on my talk page. Sheep NotGoats   (Talk) 23:43, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Thequackdaddy, I have recieved some good guidance and advice from SheepNotGoats. I admit I came on harshly and under-equipped to know how to effectively edit Wikipedia and probably should have more closely read the rules concerning weasel words and peacock terms. I still have to deeply contend that the use of press releases does not constitute plagarism; I had called the Illinois offices the releases had concerned and their representatives informed me they did not have copyright issues and reporters often copied or used the releases verbatim in journalistic publications; but now I understand it's more an issue of formatting. I also better understand the imporance of AGF in Wikipedia; I lost that factor when I had originally checked the Governor's page to see your changes without any reaching out on my talk page, which I took as non-AGF, so I responded non-AGF. If it's possible, I hope the both of us can now work with good faith. As for the blanking, I also admit I simply didn't know what I was doing. Thank you for checking for vandalism, one of the reasons I got heated about the Governor's page in the first place); I would like to still include the information on the Governor's initatives, but I will revert to encyclopedia language and look for some more concrete sources, as well. Practice makes perfect, I suppose.  Firebrandliberal (talk) 20:20, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

title: User talk:Thequackdaddy


text:
Rustenfelde

Rustenfelde is a municipality in the district of Eichsfeld in Thuringia, Germany. It is part of the Verwaltungsgemeinschaft Hanstein-Rusteberg.

title: Rustenfelde


text:
Talk:New Romantic

Music Genre Infobox?
New Romantic was a youth cult and fashion in the early 1980s nothing to do with musical style so why are we using a music genre infobox? 86.132.45.105 (talk) 23:23, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Removed, it was deleted a few months ago but someone added it back recently. There currently is no Youth Culture Infobox Template andi064 T . C 23:03, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I just noticed the music genre infobox had been added back so I removed it again.89.168.21.189 (talk) 21:19, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
 * And I have just removed it yet again. As usual, people are confusing New Romanticism with New Wave music. The two were linked but are not the same thing. 88.104.19.157 (talk) 03:19, 6 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It was a musical movement rather than a style - primarily it was a music press/media classification term for a certain selection of bands. As a music press-defined "movevement" it therefore CAN be classed as a genre, therefore the box IS appropriate. 95.151.209.62 (talk) 22:57, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I see both sides of this one. New Romanticism was primarily band driven, but the musical style of many of these bands is usually classified as part of the wider synthpop branch of New Wave. I will take a look at the major sources and see what direction they point in.-- SabreBD  (talk)  06:55, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * The point is that the person at the start of this thread wanted rid of the box because he/she said that New Romantic was just a fashion movement - when clearly it was primarily a movement/classification in Pop Music. I mean, if it was purely a fashion movement one might reasonably expect the scene to gravitate around fashion shows and clothes shops.  In fact the epicentre of the scene was a Nightclub (since the 1960s a synonym for discoteque) - a place where people go to listen and dance to music played by DJs and live bands - both of which were central to the Blitz club.
 * Ironically, by way of comparison Punk *DID* have its epicentre in a clothes shop but nobody would ever dare question its status as primarily a Music Movement. 195.92.109.20 (talk) 16:23, 15 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It was never a musical movement, it was a fashion movement that began in London nightclubs and the style was adopted by people who were involved in various bands at the time (Steve Strange, Spandau Ballet, Duran, etc). Vivienne Westwood's shop in London was also central to the movement. It's not music. If "New Romantic" was a music genre, how exactly was Adam & The Ants music similar to Visage or Duran Duran? I dont think A&TA even used synths on their records. The thing that links these artists was their visual style - nothing more. 88.104.18.67 (talk) 03:14, 26 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I am inclined to agree. I have been working on a cleaned up version, which also removed all the OR and deals with the other issues. I will post it soon.-- SabreBD  (talk)  06:48, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is archived. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

New Romantic → New Romanticism — New Romantic is Singular,New Romanticism covers whole movement — andi064 T. C 04:14, 18 December 2008 (UTC)

Survey

 * Feel free to state your position on the renaming proposal by beginning a new line in this section with  or  , then sign your comment with  . Since polling is not a substitute for discussion, please explain your reasons, taking into account Wikipedia's naming conventions.

Discussion

 * Any additional comments:
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

falklands war bit
It seems that the anti-war feeling helped New Romanticism to grow, it didn't cause it. Please fix my wording if it's implying that --Enric Naval (talk) 23:17, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * The New Romantic movement was largely over by the time the Falklands War began in 1982. 88.104.19.157 (talk) 03:21, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Political POV
It replaced Punk rock as a musical trend, promoting a feminity reserved to males and providing scapism from the harsh reality of those times. Its apparition and growth were favoured by the societal changes caused by the hard-line politics of Margaret Thatcher, the young men reacted saying "Let's just go party and get dressed up instead" Andy McCluskey, a former member of the group Orchestral Manoeuvres In The Dark says that New Romanticism was not a new marketeable phenomen but a "genuine outburst" against the belief that greed was good, which was prevalent at that time, and was being promoted by Tatcher. This mood was worsened by the opposition to the Falklands War, the trade union crushing and closure of pits, which caused an increase on unemployement and the death of hope. Helen Reddington theorizes that the start of the Falklands War, which ended the peacetime, returned militarism as a mean to dispers surplus male energy. As it has been removed once already by another editor, Unless a consenus is generated on this talk page to keep it, it remains off. Archivey (talk) 23:58, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Removed the following as it gives a single unbalenced political aspect to the article and overdue weight to editors POV:
 * I agree. This section is stating (rather dubious) POV as fact. --Bri (talk) 01:47, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * As I have stated before, New Romanticism began in late 1980, was in it's hey-day in 1981, with groups associated with the movement such as Adam and the Ants and Duran Duran having many hit singles in the charts. The Falklands War was in 1982. That's like saying the Rolling Stones and Beatles got together as a result of the JFK assassination.--jeanne (talk) 05:55, 14 January 2009 (UTC)
 * OP has re-added it against consensus. I can't remove it again due to WP:3RR another signed in editor may care to do so. Archivey (talk) 21:32, 22 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Sorry, about that, I missed this discussion. I have to say that I was not consciously pushing any POV because I don't have any opinion on this movement, I was just convinced I was actually writing an accurate description of New Romanticism influences. I realized my mistake when I went to search for more sources to furnish my point, but then I realized that I couldn't find any: those two sources are almost the only ones making any sort of link between NR and Falklands or between NR and Tatcher. I couldn't even find sociological stuff about scapism from rhe harsh realities of the Britain of that time. I suppose I had misinterpreted sources and misrepresented New Romanticism. Sorry again, I'll try to be more careful next time.

 * Is it possible to save the "It replaced Punk rock as a musical trend, promoting a feminity reserved to males" bit? --Enric Naval (talk) 00:16, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

 * I have no problem with the replaced Punk bit as it did in the UK (but not exclusively), much of the female side of the NR culture evolved from female Punk style and I’m surprised no one has created Numanoid article (Numanoid was a principally female culture for female followers of Gary Numan who crossed directly from Punk rock (as it died) to Synthpop and Electronica; and created their own style in late 1970s - 1980 which was the basis of female New Romantic fashion  of 1981- 1983. The male side was less to do with feminity and more a rebellion against financial austerity of the 1970s; and was essentially  heterosexual male Peacock behaviour. There is a lot of interesting stuff out there that this article desperately needs, unfortunately as it is nearly 30 years in history this article often suffers from a lot of WP:OR and WP:POV not helped but media generalisations that some editors use as WP:RS. I suggest anyone researching NR starts with the Numanoids and the Blitz Kids in 1979/1980 and works out, rather than what an ill informed US mid-western newspaper wrote in 1986, 3 years too late.  Archivey (talk) 21:26, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

New Romantic movement in Ireland

 * As someone who lived in Dublin in the 1980s, I was not only a witness to the popularity of the movement but wore the gear myself and hung out at The Afro Spot on Fleet Street in Dublin city centre on the southside, which was a trendy venue for New Romantics. I will find a source which confirms this and replace the content which was arbitrarily deleted by the anonymous IP.--jeanne (talk) 16:39, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I was the Saturday night DJ in The Afrospot in 1983-1984, and i'd love to tell as much of the story as you'd like to hear :) - please get in touch 78.17.153.250 (talk) 22:44, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

 * Whilst I intensely dislike IP edits and believe Wiki should be all membership: I’m afraid that section was purely WP:OR and that anon editor was correct in their removal of it. Please try and confine your research to WP:RS rather than your own personal experiences. Archivey (talk) 21:32, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I shall obtain a source for the information before I put it back. I did remove a libelous statement in the article against Boy George which had been overlooked.--jeanne (talk) 05:28, 24 January 2009 (UTC)

Bow Wow Wow

 * Shouldn't Bow Wow Wow be included? They are often mentioned in articles about the New Romantics alongside Adam and the Ants, Visage and Spandau Ballet.--jeanne (talk) 15:29, 31 January 2009 (UTC)

In a word...no. No-one called Bow Wow Wow New Romantics at the time...They didn't even use synths.Vauxhall1964 (talk) 11:00, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

New Romantics
The New Romantics, (or perhaps New Romantic) are / were a band from the 80s. I'm surprised they have been overlooked, but obviously people get the genre and the group confused. The article on Ultravox, refers to both, and the author understands the distinction.

I'm unfamiliar with wikipedia, so someone else might like to correct the entry to reflect, New romanticism and the New Romantics.

203.214.102.237 (talk) 21:16, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

 * "In the mid-1990s, New Romanticism was revived in England as a movement called Romo" Completely untrue! i was one of the originators of the romo movement and it was not in anyway an attempt of those involved to revive new romanticism. completely separate musical movement that just happened to share a similar name. wikipedia is a joke. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.244.75 (talk) 11:02, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Easy solution. Removed Romo from article. andi064 T . C 16:23, 18 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Added back per source, and I could source this ten times over to music press of the day. Whether it was or was not an attempt to revive New Romanticism, that's how it was regarded and reported by chroniclers of the day. Hiding T 13:32, 24 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The chroniclers of the day, or shall we say completely ignorant journalists of the day, had no grasp of the movement and their reporting completely misrepresented Romo. Is this how Wikpedia works? It simple regurgitates what the press says? That's pathetic. If The Sun newspaper or the National Enquirer say something then it's the truth? Sad. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.173.244.75 (talk) 22:20, 2 May 2009 (UTC)
 * The Sun and the National Enquirer are not used as sources in this article. Also, Wikipedia operates from a neutral point of view, rather than adopting any point of view. That's not viewed as pathetic, but necessary to prevent point of view pushing.  Wikipedia is not the platform to set the record straight.  If you believe the record is wrong, then seek publication of your view in a reliable source elsewhere, so that Wikipedia can in turn summarise it and become better. Hiding T 09:06, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Sourced information
TO the anonymous editor who seems to have an issue with mentioning the Human League, ABC and Heaven 17 in the article, I suggest they have a read of our policy on neutral point of view. A wide variety of sources identify the bands with the movement, regardless of whether individuals feel they were part of the movement. To reflect the state of affairs, I've summarised Rimmer, who makes both the point that the bands are seen as part of the movement but that they were not considered a part of it at the time. I'm happy to discuss this issue, but sourced, verifiable information which informs the reader, takes a neutral view and is relevant should not be removed. Thanks, Hiding T 08:35, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

 * List of newspaper sources describing either the Human League, ABC or Heaven 17 as new romantic in the last 12 months:
 * 1) Keeping fir is as easy ABC for Fry The Express 21 February 2009; EDITED BY KATHRYN SPENCER WITH LIZZIE CATT, CLAUDIA GOULDER AND JACK TEAGUE
 * 2) Banish thoughts of gold lame and simply swoon The Independent on Sunday (London); Apr 12, 2009; Simon Price; p. 60
 * 3) Review: Pop: La Roux Notting Hill Arts Club, London 2/5 The Guardian (London); Feb 7, 2009; Ian Gittins; p. 46
 * 4) Review: THE STEEL CITY TOUR ECHO arena, Liverpool Liverpool Echo (Liverpool); Dec 5, 2008; Emma Johnson; p. 5
 * 5) 1982: ABC Poison Arrow The Sunday Times (London); Nov 30, 2008; David Chater; p. 24
 * 6) Interview: Phil oakey Nottingham Evening Post 28 November 2008, to quote Oakey: "I thought we were the first people who were called New Romantics."
 * 7) DON'T YOU WANT ME, EIGHTIES? Irish Times (Dublin); Oct 18, 2008; HUGH LINEHAN; p. 21
 * 8) CD ROUND-UP The Express 08 August 2008
 * 9) TV LAND: Ashes looks to the future The Daily Mirror (London); Oct 8, 2008; Mark Jefferies; p. 24
 * 10) Throw back the years Evening Chronicle (Newcastle-upon-Tyne); Dec 15, 2008; p. 21
 * 11) DRESSED TO IMPRESS - WITH ALL THE FRILLS Daily Record (Glasgow); Mar 26, 2009; Rick Fulton, Showbiz editor, Pictured left, In his New Romantic days; p. 3
 * 12) A Strange Week Scotsman (Edinburgh); Mar 28, 2009; Christopher Mackie; p. 29

I'll now look for books. Hiding T 12:50, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

 * Just because a few newspapers call them "New Romantic" it doesn't mean they are, it just means the publications you sourced do not understand what the term means. The Human League in particular would have a fit if anybody ever labelled them as New Romantics. 88.110.253.194 (talk) 22:41, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Contested bands
I'm requesting comment on how best to summarise the fact that some bands are considered New Romantic by some sources, but are not considered New Romantic by others. I'm edit warring with an anonymous editor who refuses to engage on the talk page, so I need wider input to work out the best way forwards. My preferred approach is probably this version, which is sourced to Rimmer's New Romantics: The Look, the major work on the movement. Appreciate thoughts. Hiding T 09:00, 29 April 2009 (UTC)
 * The bands (Human League, ABC, and Heaven 17) you have cited (and provided sources for which confirm the fact) were considered at the time to have been New Romantic bands. I was living in Dublin at the time and I well remember those bands having been constantly played at our New Romantic venue on the southside of Dublin city centre. I tried to state in this very article that the New Romantic scene was huge in Dublin, but it was challenged and removed. Oh well, I must have been just dreamin' in 1981 and 1982...--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 09:12, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * That is pure WP:OR! Typical of the factual accuracy of contributors to this page. Since when on earth were the left wing, northern, Heaven 17; New Romantics then? Rubbish, even by the so called defacto definition of the genre listed here they didn’t fit, where was the make up? the stupid bleached hair styles? frilly clothes? Martyn Ware’s jeans and beard; and Ian Craig Marsh’s donkey jacket and beanie combo are right up there with Boy George arent they. So let me get this right, because they played synthesiser based pop music in the early 1980s that must make them New Romantic. This article is a joke, there were only around four or five New Romantic bands, i.e Visage. People just keep making it up as the go along. Heaven 17 were never New Romantics! Laestrygonian3 (talk) 14:19, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * It's a sourced quotation from a reliable source, the very antithesis of original research. However, your editing of a sourced quotation to reflect your point of view breaches policy and guidance. Hiding T 15:12, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Heaven 17 were not New Romantics. Fact. Your quote says they are not! So why are they mentioned at all? Some credible Arab newspapers consider George Bush a Nazi, every (sane) person knows he isn't. But using your perverse logic I can amend The Nazi Party article and state "some people consider George Bush to be a Nazi" corrupting the article with a ridiculous but sourced statement. Have you any idea how insulting it is for serious, post punk musicians and producers Martyn Ware and Ian Craig Marsh to be lumped in with the likes of Boy George and Marilyn (singer) by people who don’t have a clue what they are writing about? What next the Beatles were Jazz? You can find a reliable source that says anything you want if you look hard enough. It’s an understanding of the subject, facts and plain common sense that make an article. This article should be about what New Romatics movement was, not bands that just had the label erroneously thrown at them by uninformed 1980s journalists. Might I suggest you leave it to someone with an proper understanding of the subject Laestrygonian3 (talk) 17:08, 7 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Please re-read our policy on writing from a neutral point of view. Wikipedia is not the place to set the record straight, it is the place to summarise secondary sources and reflect all view points with due weight.  Since you agree that the article states that Heaven 17 were not New Romantics, I am failing to understand your exact objections. You agree that Heaven 17 have been referred to as a New Romantic band, and you agree that this is a point of view that has gained credence in the wider world. It is better for our readers to be told that Heaven 17 have been erroneously referred to as a New Romantic band than to leave them with the mistaken impression that Heaven 17 were not a New Romantic band. On Wikipedia we leave it to people with an understanding of the subject by summarising secondary sources, such as British Culture by David Christopher, who writes "early 1980s saw bands such as Gary Numan, Heaven 17, Spandau Ballet, Human League, Visage, OMD, Depeche Mode and others, using synthesisers and tapes to make restrained, refined, futuristic pop and dance music. The bands and their fans became known as New Romantics...". We don't get to write from our personal opinions or experiences. As for George Bush, I don't see how that relates, but I can point you to a number of articles where opinions that Bush equates to a nazi or a fascist are presented, and I can also point you to articles where it is claimed The Beatles played Jazz.  Hiding T 11:13, 8 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Why has George Bush (which one BTW, Bush senior or Dubya?) been included in this discussion on New Romantics? I can perhaps understand Reagan ot Thatcher being dragged onto this page, seeing as they were in power during the heydey of the New Romantic movement (1981-1982), but George Bush?!!!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 17:22, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

 * There is clearly no consensus for this information to be in this article and it functions quite well without it. 86.139.83.146 (talk) 03:25, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

 * OMD, THL, H17, Depeche Mode, ABC are all not New Romantic, never have been, don't self identify as Romantics, fans don't consider them romantics yet 1 individual insists on keeping listing them on this page. Fans of the bands will just keep removing them because it is simply wrong. Stick to Visage and other blitZ bands or this article will be in perpetual edit war. 82.132.136.211 (talk) 05:19, 9 May 2009 (UTC)

Why are we discussing bands that may or may not have been 'New Romantic' ? An article is a place for undesputed facts not hypothasis on either side. If the subject matter cannot be decided on it probably shouldn't be in an encyclopedia in the first place.94.116.120.214 (talk) 08:26, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Please read our content policies. I'm going to request semi-protection to see if that will help implement the policies. Hiding T 09:39, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

You will get bored before we do, libel will not be allowed to stand. You've been told they are not new romantics so get them off this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.116.155.162 (talk) 11:01, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Um, "libel"? I think that's over stating the case to the extreme. Hiding T 14:05, 11 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I would not consider The Human League, Heaven 17, Depeche Mode, or ABC New Romantics and I don't believe anyone did back in the early 1980s - these are described as "new pop" I believe in Simon Reynolds' book Rip It Up & Start Again, and they were coming from an electronic music background rather than the glammed up camp synth pop of the new romantics - the obvious new romantic bands were the likes of Visage, Duran Duran, Classix Nouveaux, Japan, Spandau Ballet, and many of them moved on to something else fairly quickly. If we are going to include bands in this article I recommend looking for authoritative sources from closer to the era being discussed - several "New Romantic" compilation albums have had to use a broad interpretation of the term in order to compile an album's worth of material, and bands described by recent sources as New Romatics may have been considered quite differently back in the day. The simple answer is to only include the bands that we can all agree on.--Michig (talk) 11:41, 13 May 2009 (UTC)

I wouldn't even say Japan were 'an obvious New Romantic band'. The list of such bands is very small because the term was only current in 1980 and 1981. By 1982 it was redundant.. which rules out Culture Club (who weren't synth based either, another prerequisite for any New Romantic combo). Wearing outlandish pseudo-historical costume and playing electronic dance pop during 1980-81 was the defining characteristic. Spandau Ballet, Visage, Duran Duran, Adam & the Ants and that's about it. Certainly not the Human League, Heaven 17, Culture Club, Depeche Mode, ABC, Japan, or even Ultravox, none of which would have embraced the term - quite the opposite in fact. Many of the latter more electronic bands were labelled 'futurist' at the time ... which was not synonymous with 'New Romantic' Vauxhall1964 (talk) 11:12, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

Consensus at the minute
Is the consensus at the minute to then leave the article as is? If so, can we all agree to take the npov tag off? Hiding T 09:10, 22 May 2009 (UTC)

Sic?
In the quote by Dave Rimmer at the end of the 'music' section, a 'sic' is included. I'm not quite sure why; the grammar seems correct, and 'hubristic' IS a word.... 24.225.109.97 (talk) 04:02, 6 December 2009 (UTC)

Two errors of fact in the intro to this item
The first paragraph attributes the origins of the term New Romantics by taking liberties with an interview cited in the Independent in 1994, which was itself a secondhand recycling from the 1980s.

This Wikipedia item asserts: "The term New Romantic was coined by Richard James Burgess in an interview with reference to Spandau Ballet.[1]"

That footnote takes you directly to the Independent archive where the relevant sentences read: "Did he [Adam Ant] feel as though he was part of a new musical movement? 'I think that the term New Romantic was really something the media made up. It was first quoted by Richard James Burgess, I think, and he was referring to Spandau Ballet who were really the New Romantic band, not Adam and the Ants. Our influences ranged from the Sex Pistols to Roxy Music and David Bowie - we were like the glam end of punk.'

First Adam "thinks" Burgess was the first to use it - ie, this is the hearsay of a popstar. Second, Adam *dissociates* himself from the NRs in the rest of this quote. Adam's genre was always glam-rock.

Yet the Wiki item ignores these two pieces of evidence, and insists that his band were part of the NR movement - not - and that Burgess *coined* the phrase - not. He may well have used it, as did many other people during 1980-81. Cognoscenti have long attributed the term to Perry Haines, first editor of i-D magazine. Writer Betty Page attributes its first use in print to Alan Lewis, editor of Sounds.

So with two profound errors of fact in the intro, why should we trust anything else in this item?(217.155.200.241 (talk) 02:46, 31 December 2009 (UTC)).
 * Adam Ant's views on the New Romantic era and the Ants' place in it vary according to what mood he is in - and more to the point what mental state he is in. However, there is a more direct link between the Ants and the Blitz scene, namely Marco Pirroni.  Marco was effectively Steve Strange's landlord during the Blitz period and consequently had free passage into Blitz.  He was and still is a big fan of both the music and the style of the Blitz and in fact his main downside to joining Adam and the Ants was having to go out and play the Ants Invasion tour to all the original (pre-1980) Ants' punk fans. "When you hung out at the Blitz with everyone looking pretty and made up and listening to music that I thought was new and exciting, it was very difficult to think 'Oh God, I've got to go back to the Electric Ballroom and play to bloody punks from Croydon with Crass painted on their backs'. Urgh! The scum!"  (Source http://www.3ammagazine.com/musicarchives/2004/mar/interview_marco_pirroni.html )
 * Also several other associates of Adam & the Ants, including Jordan, early Ants' guitarist Johnny Bivouac and Adam's then-girlfriend Amanda Donohoe sporadically hung out at the Blitz. 95.144.241.44 (talk) 18:25, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Credibility of Rimmer's book
Most of the discussion on this page is laughably ignorant since most of your points of reference are drawn from the past decade. The New Romantics lived and breathed 30 years ago.

For a start your header on this Wiki item is expressed as an -ism. I was there shoulder-to-shoulder in their ranks and never heard anybody at the time use the phrase "New Romanticism". These were people up for a fun time, not philosophers.

You are misguided if you believe Rimmer's New Romantics: The Look to be "the major work on the movement". The only book, yes. Published in 2003, a bit late in the day. Its commercial publisher made a colourful coffee-table book out of a cuttings job. Like so many music historians, plundering other people's texts after the event, he doesn't really "get it".

Of course Adam wasn't a Romantic. Nor were Bow Wow Wow. And the Romantics had all moved on by '83. You've only got to check the pop charts of that era. Despite its American perspective, AllMusic has been for 20 years the most reliable of all the music encyclopedias (mostly flaky), and pretty much assigns the right genres to the British bands of the day, so why don't some of your contributors actually check their facts and dates there, or even to contemporary sources?

Having said this, the first plausible account of the NRs was published only this year in a newspaper in the UK. I'm not surprised "Vauxhall1964" has closed his account. His name reveals him to be probably the only Brit trying to set this record straight, and seemingly losing the battle. "Laestrygonian3" talks good sense and he's retired too, though even he seems unaware of a concession by ABC's Martin Fry, that although not strictly Romantics, they did accept themselves as “a product of the times”. Artistes like to polish their histories after the event, but at the time frankly everyone wanted a No 1 hit. "Michig" talks sense too but should concede that several bands enjoyed riding the Romantics bandwaggon.

The continuing shortcoming of the Wikipedia method is that it disallows the lived experience of eye witnesses as "reliable" source material. Extraordinary. (217.155.200.241 (talk) 04:14, 31 December 2009 (UTC)).

 * COMMENT: I thought these points were well elucidated. However, I'm still trying to get the Wiki description of punks as "austere and anti-fashion." That seemed to me the most laughable of all. --Brian Chidester, 08/28/2011 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.14.191.216 (talk) 02:16, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Flock of Seagulls
I deleted this band from the list in the opening paragraph that has Rimmer's book as a reference. This book does not credit that band as being New Romantics. In fact they get one name check at the end of the book in a list of 80s mostly synth pop acts that came after the New Romantics. Vauxhall1964 (talk) 20:37, 18 May 2010 (UTC)

Description?
Shouldn't there be some attempt to describe the style/fashion being talked about? This article is mainly a listing of bands associated with the "movement". --Dwchin (talk) 23:48, 4 January 2011 (UTC)

Article's "tone"...
Do any other editors think that this article reads more like an essay than an article in an encyclopedia? Especially in the Music section, assertions and claims, while they might be true, do not seem to be backed up with verifiable information from reliable sources. Shearonink (talk) 03:19, 16 March 2011 (UTC)

Problematic sources
I think some of the sourcing/references should be improved if possible. Refs #3 & #4 are to blogs written by nick-named bloggers/unknown persons. Refs #5a & 5b are to the highbeam version of a book review of "Blitzed!" (by Steve Strange). The information should perhaps come from the actual book, not from a review. Cheers, Shearonink (talk) 13:44, 18 March 2011 (UTC)

+ Nobody in their right mind would trust Steve Strange's memoir of his fantasies, which is noticably short on checkable facts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.155.200.241 (talk) 00:46, 2 June 2015 (UTC)
 * LOL. That's true. 86.179.99.162 (talk) 19:20, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Original research and essay style
Recent good faith changes to the article have increased some of its problems. It now contains a large amount of appropriately sourced statements that appear to be original research. It fails to follow the WP:MOS in a number of areas, particularly the use of statements, of which the one at the end of the penultimate sub-section is a good example, which are not in an encyclopedic style. Before adding more text please consider that claims that have no reliable sources may be deleted from an article and that an encyclopedic tone and neutral tone needs to maintained throughout an article.-- SabreBD  (talk)  20:05, 28 June 2011 (UTC)

Given recent additions I also have to point out WP:W2W.-- SabreBD  (talk)  08:36, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

Images
Since New Romanticism was a very visually-oriented phenomenon in pop music, I believe it is very important that this article feature images of the key figures and bands associated with it. All images have appropriate licensing tags. Cities of the Plain (talk) 19:54, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Its an argument, but most of these images do not have a correct WP:non-free use rationale and this number of images almost certainly offend the guidelines on free alternatives and minimum use (see: WP:NFCC #1 and #3). They also do not fit the guidelines at WP:Images (particularly on forcing image size. I am going to remove them for now. Please read these guidelines carefully before reposting them, or some of them.-- SabreBD  (talk)  20:20, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Only three images (Steve Strange, Adam and the Ants, Culture Club) have been uploaded by me for this article, and I have given them proper licensing templates as suggested by User:Sabrebd. The remaining three images (Ashes to Ashes (David Bowie song), Quiet Life, Duran Duran) have been uploaded by other Wikipedia editors for those three other related articles. The original image resolution should be a moot point, as I have also taken out the size specifications, so all of the images for this article are now a normal, uniform size. Cities of the Plain (talk) 20:55, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Thats good as it stands, but please note the WP:NFCC guidelines. Basically the use of so many non-free images is hard to justify and especially if free alternatives might exist.-- SabreBD  (talk)  21:00, 1 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I am not aware of any alternative free images that would be appropriate for this article. However, I did put a fair bit of thought into selecting the images here.Cities of the Plain (talk) 19:18, 2 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I am afraid the criteria is not whether we are aware of free alternatives, but whether they are available or could be created. In any case the issue of minimum use still applies. I know that these policies can seem puzzling and draconian at times, and I speak as someone who has had their own frustrations with them, but eventually someone will come and enforce them and if you want to avoid the removal of all the pictures it would be a good idea to consider trying to find free alternatives and what is the minimum needed to illustrate a encyclopedic point would be. I would suggest that five is probably more than is needed simply to illustrate a general fashion. It is also a good idea to make the point being illustrated clear on both the non-free rationale and in the picture caption where possible. The tag that has been placed on the article by another editor is basically giving editors time to sort out these issues, so some sort of change soon is necessary.-- SabreBD  (talk)  08:31, 3 July 2011 (UTC)

The pic of Midge Ure from 1984 is not indicative of the New Romantic movement (for a picture to be included in any wiki article it has to directly illustrate the topic). In fact, it could be argued that Ure never exemplified it anyway since he didn't wear make-up or any of the ostentatious clothing associated with the New Romantic scene. He is often associated with New Romanticism purely because of his involvement with Visage and (erroneously) because Ultravox made synthpop. "New Romantic" was not a style of music, it was a look that certain musicians adopted. 88.104.30.215 (talk) 12:01, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
 * That is certainly an argument worth considering, although in this case Ure seems to be sporting a poet shirt, although that is not entirely clear. The best solution would be to offer a copyright free alternative. If that is not possible, what about swapping the Japan picture, which is more indicative of the style?-- SabreBD  (talk)  13:45, 21 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Ure is wearing a white shirt, that's all. That picture is not indicative in any way of the New Romantic movement (make up, classical clothing, etc). You will have to prove otherwise if you want to keep it. 88.104.31.235 (talk) 18:19, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * No I do not have to prove it to keep it. The picture is appropriate to the article, at the very least illustrating one of the key people in the text and for the right period. If you want to replace it then please find a free alternative. I am open to discussions about the order and location of pictures, but there is no reason to remove a valid picture just because you do not like it.-- SabreBD  (talk)  18:22, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
 * It's true that the picture of Midge Ure (and the one of Duran for that matter) are not appropriate for the article because they do not illustrate "new romanticism". When we use pictures in Wiki articles (free use or fair use) they have to illustrate the article subject, and not just vaguely. Ultravox were just a rock/pop band by 1984, and Ure is not dressed in New Romantic fashion in that picture. And Duran Duran wearing suits in 2009 is nothing to do with this article because they are not dressed as they were when they first started. The cover of Duran's first album is the definitive New Romantic photo of that band (flamboyant classical-period clothing, make-up, etc). Everything after 1981 would be irrelevant to this article (even Nick Rhodes stated that the New Romantic scene was over by the end of 1981, on Channel 4's Top Ten New Romantics programme). Kookoo Star (talk) 04:31, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Please take a look at this pic of Ure from 81 [File:Ultravox 04111981 01 600.jpg]. Right period, but it looks as if it may be more "futurist" than New Romantic.-- SabreBD  (talk)  07:41, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * That picture doesn't typify New Romanticism either I'm afraid. It's just Midge Ure in a shirt and tie (even The Jam and Madness wore shirts and ties). Take a look at this webpage. The photos on there typify the New Romantic scene completely (especially the colour ones). It was all about the flamboyant clothes and make-up and wild hairstyles that people wore to clubs that played new wave music. I wonder if the owner of the website would consider uploading a couple of them to Wikipedia, because the one that is labeled "Actual New Romantics" (about halfway down the page) would be perfect as a main pic for this article. Does anybody want to contact him/her? Kookoo Star (talk) 17:21, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Trust me, I know what they look like, I was around at the time. Given the fun I have had getting copyright permission I wont be leaping to the front of the queue to volunteer. Some colour would be great, but personally I would love something like the second picture with Boy George, Marilyn, Martin Kemp, Tony Hadley conveniently standing outside the Blitz. However, since some of these are clearly publicity shots and others screen captures, I suspect that the website owner does not own the copy right. I have spent long hours trying to find copyright free pics for the article and with very little positive result. I would be very happy if someone else can come up with something, otherwise I think we may just have to live with the few pictures we have. A pity for something that was largely visual.-- SabreBD  (talk)  17:54, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I don't think it would hurt to ask the website owner if s/he owns the photo copyright and if they can be used. Regardless though, we shouldn't be using pictures that are not indicative of the New Romantic scene (like the Midge Ure and recent Duran pics) just because they are the only free ones we can get. I agree that an article about something that was all about visuals should have something to illustrate it, but it is better to have no pictures than wrong pictures. Kookoo Star (talk) 18:03, 23 November 2011 (UTC)
 * You will notice I have not suggested putting the pictures back. I am not convinced that the pictures were inappropriate, but I think there is a shift here in what the article is about. Before I cleaned it up it was a music genre based article that (understandably) conflated New Romanticism with other things such as synthpop. In genre based articles pictures of artists as they are today or at some other point are often used. However, I increasingly think that this is really an article about a sub-culture that had a musical element and in that case, there does seem little point in having pictures that do not reflect the sub-culture. Are you suggesting that you will try to contact the website owner? I will probably drag the enthusiasm together for another copyright free trawl at some point. Had I known I would want these things for a future online encyclopedia I would have taken my camera with me a lot more back in the day.-- SabreBD  (talk)  18:29, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Photos (non-free)
There are a few of non-free photos here. Maybe one could be included. --Trevj (talk) 14:12, 5 October 2011 (UTC)

David Bowie's Influence
I am not sure here, but that people may be mistaken. I grew up more so in the 1980's, rather than the 70's, yet am familiar with David Bowie's work in the early part of the latter decade, and if this is to be associated with Romanticism, it must only be in an oblique sense. Yes, David picked up New Romanticism during his great pop success circa 1982 - 1984, but from what I know of the man, and comments he or his associates have made, I think it might rather be a more accurate comment that he was *influenced by* New Romanticism, rather than being one of the principle and seminal leaders. His work came at the height of this era, and so did, however, in a sense solidify New Romanticism as an accepted artistic, and cultural expression. — Preceding unsigned comment added by John G. Lewis (talk • contribs) 18:27, 17 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Bowie was influenced by the New Romantic movement in 1980 (and only 1980) for the Scary Monsters album. I wouldn't consider him to be a New Romantic or a "Blitz Kid", he just adopted the style, primarily for Ashes To Ashes which is often considered to be the song that brought New Romanticism into the mainstream. 88.104.22.253 (talk) 02:37, 4 July 2013 (UTC)

ABC
ABC were not New Romantics. They never dressed as New Romantics, never wore make-up, and Martin Fry has always stated that they were never New Romantics. In this interview he states this quite clearly. The term "New Romantic" was often misused by the press to tag any early 80s band that used synthesizers (a problem that is even more apparent now), but this is not what the term means. Unless a band actually clearly self-identifies as New Romantics, we shouldn't be including them in this article as we are just propagating this misconception. 88.104.22.253 (talk) 02:42, 4 July 2013 (UTC)
 * ABC however WERE dressed totally as new romantics on some photos. Talk Talk also. Just google 'ABC 1982' or 'Talk Talk 1982' and you will find bunch of pics for these bands that were same fashion like Duran Duran. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 104.157.137.222 (talk) 03:10, 29 March 2016 (UTC)
 * No they weren't. Duran's look in 1982 was different from their earlier look in 81, and by 1982 they were all in sharp tailored Anthony Price suits rather than the outlandish New-Ro club garb they started out in. ABC were wearing suits in 1982, but that in itself is not New-Ro attire. 86.179.99.162 (talk) 19:17, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

The New Romantics: A Fine Romance on BBC Four 20 Feb 2021/iPlayer
I watched this show on the iPlayer last night and came to this page to see if they were included. I didn't think of ABC as being New Romantic (only really knowing the band from Alphabet City onwards) but I can see why people would include them. Fry seems happy to be included with the New Romantics scene, not only presenting The Look of Love: The Story of the New Romantics for BBC Radio but also turning up in this BBC music documentary The New Romantics: A Fine Romance in 2001. However, rather than being a first wave new romantic act, he has ABC down as a kind of post-romantic 'romantic' act (in the same way that there are Post-Britpop and Britpop acts, but most just lumped together under the latter genre if they are from the 1990s). Also the introduction to the main page at https://www.abcmartinfry.com states...

"ABC led by charismatic singer Martin Fry formed in Sheffield in the 1980’s . They wanted to fuse the world of disco funk with their own unique new romantic, post punk vision. ABC’s debut ‘The Lexicon Of Love’ went to No 1 and sold over a million records.  To date, ABC have released nine studio albums: ‘The Lexicon Of Love’ (1982), ‘Beauty Stab’ (1983), ‘How To Be A Zillionaire’ (1985), ‘Alphabet City’ (1987), ‘Up’ (1989), ‘Abracadabra’ (1991), ‘Skyscraping’ (1997), ‘Traffic’ (2008) and ‘The Lexicon of Love II’ (2016).

“ABC’s Martin Fry is a revelation, a soul man supreme, belting out pristine Vegas glitter pop and uptown House in his electric blue lounge suit. An ageless performer, Fry is the missing link between Bryan Ferry and Jarvis Cocker. For the inevitable encore of ‘The Look of Love’ he returns dipped in sparkly gold lame. ” Stephen Dalton NME" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.154.173.37 (talk) 16:52, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

 * The fact that Martin Fry "seems happy" to be connected with the scene is probably more to do with the fact he was approached to be on television in the documentary you mention above. Fry has gone on record in the past and stated quite clearly that ABC were nothing to do with the New Romantic scene. And they weren't. They were just another successful band who were around during the New Romantic era, but that doesn't necessarily make them part of it. Likewise, Soft Cell. They were lumped in with the NR scene because they made synthpop records and Marc Almond wore make-up, but they always stated they were never anything to do with it. 90.241.132.72 (talk) 03:40, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

Is start class rating out of date?
I think this is overdue a reconsideration of its rating. It seems to me to be well beyond a start class article – I'd say closer to a C or B as it is comprehensive and has multiple reliable sources. Any opinions? Libby norman (talk) 13:45, 23 March 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes it is. But since I am a major contributor I cannot do it.--  SabreBD  (talk) 15:40, 23 March 2014 (UTC)

Echo and The Bunnymen
This band was not New Romantics. Abc and A flock of seagulls made more sense being called New Romantics and I have read both bands being New Romantics but definatly not Echo and the Bunnymen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.114.63.4 (talk) 04:07, 4 May 2018 (UTC)

Was New Romantics inspired by the masks and clothes of the Carnival of Venice?
Perhaps this question was already asked by someone else in this page, I don't know. Anyway, since 1990 or so I'm working on what I call the Color Cycle (based on J.W.Goethe's Color-Circle) in which there are several color-axes such as the naughty Green-Magenta axis (totally different from the honest Blue-Orange axis). In this naughty axis it's all about decadence (the most typical example in this axis is the "emcee" in the movie Cabaret: Willkommen, Bienvenue, Welcome). New Romantics and New Wave are also typical examples of this Green-Magenta axis, and Carnival of Venice too (also Victorian puppets). It would be interesting to create a special Wikipedia page for the Color Cycle, but... I'm afraid it would be seen as not very reliable and not very valuable information by many, or...? DannyJ.Caes (talk) 12:57, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

Orlando's Top 75 Hit
In a way similar to "STOP CRYING YOUR HEART OUT" being credited to BBC CHILDREN IN NEED this week (and not by Anoushka Shankar, Ava Max, BBC Concert Orchestra, Bryan Adams, Cher, Clean Bandit, Ella Eyre, Grace Chatto, Gregory Porter, Izzy Bizu, Jack Savoretti, James Morrison, Jamie Cullum, Jay Sean, Jess Glynne, KSI, Kylie Minogue, Lauv, Lenny Kravitz, Mel C, Nile Rodgers, Paloma Faith, Rebecca Ferguson, Robbie Williams, Sheku Kanneh-Mason & Yola), "The Fever Pitch EP " is being credited by the OCC to Various Artsts and not Pretenders/The La's/Orlando/Nick Hornby as it was in the old British Hit Singles & Albums books...though I cannot tell you if this goes for both the Virgin Books as well as Guinness Books as I will have to find them. If you have these books to hand, please add the reference point to the sources halfway through this bit about Romo...

"None of the Romo acts made the British top 75 in their own right, though Orlando charted at Number 65 with "How Can We Hang on to a Dream" as part of "Fever Pitch The EP", when they were originally credited alongside Pretenders and The La's (like "Thank ABBA for the Music" , the Official Charts Company currently puts this hit under 'Various Artists', but keeps the 2 Tone EP  under four different artist's discographies). After an unsuccessful Melody Maker-organised tour, most of the bands soon broke up. "

Thank you...

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:New Romantics (song) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 00:04, 12 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:New Romantic


text:
Schachtebich

Schachtebich is a municipality in the district of Eichsfeld in Thuringia, Germany. It is part of the Verwaltungsgemeinschaft Hanstein-Rusteberg.

title: Schachtebich


text:
Bucky O'Hare (arcade game)

Bucky O'Hare is an arcade game produced by Konami in 1992.

Gameplay
This video game is based on the cartoon television series Bucky O'Hare and the Toad Wars under license from Hasbro, Inc. While it is generally classified as a scrolling beat 'em up game, as the player's character is also armed with a laser gun, it adds elements of a scrolling shooter.

Much like the cartoon, Bucky O'Hare features colorful animation, and voice actors from the series were hired to participate in the game's cut scenes.

The player chooses from four protagonists: Bucky O'Hare, the heroic rabbit captain of the space ship Righteous Indignation; Jenny, an "Aldebaran cat" and telepath; Dead-Eye Duck, a four-armed mallard; and Blinky, a one-eyed android. As in the television series, the characters must stop the Toad Empire from invading extraterrestrial planets and enslaving their peoples; to do so they must shoot their way through an army of brainwashed toads to destroy their evil leader, a computer program known as "Komplex" and release the "Interplanetary Life Force".

The enemies, among them Al Negator, Toadborg, Total Terror Toad, a "Cyborg Spider", the various varieties of Toad Storm Troopers, the Toads' Air Marshall, and "Komplex-2-Go" who featured in the comic book and cartoon series continuities.

Soundtrack
The music for Arcade Bucky 'O Hare were: Planet Warren, Climate Converter, Space River, Toad Star and Komplex was contained on the CD Soundtrack Konami All-Stars 1993: Music Station of Dreams on December 24, 1992.

Reception
RePlay reported Bucky O'Hare to be the third most-popular arcade game at the time.

title: Bucky O'Hare (arcade game)


text:
River Pang

The River Pang is a small chalk stream river in the west of the English county of Berkshire, and a tributary of the River Thames. It runs for approximately 23 km from its source near the village of Compton to its confluence with the Thames in the village of Pangbourne.

The river, and its water voles, are thought to have inspired author Kenneth Grahame's character Ratty and his book The Wind in the Willows.

Course
The river's source is normally near the village of Compton, although the exact location varies depending on rainfall levels. In times of high rainfall it can be traced back to Farnborough, some four miles to the west-north-west, whilst at other times it may be as far downstream as the outfall from Hampstead Norreys sewage works.

From Compton the Pang flows south through the villages of Hampstead Norreys and Frilsham, before turning east to flow through the villages of Bucklebury, Stanford Dingley and Bradfield.

To the east of Bradfield the Pang is joined by the River Bourne and turns north to flow through the villages of Tidmarsh and Pangbourne, eventually entering the Thames between Whitchurch Lock and Whitchurch Bridge.

The valley of the River Pang between Compton and Bradfield is rather isolated, penetrated only by narrow country lanes. Because of this isolation, the valley has not become the residential commuter area that is much of Berkshire, and is still largely agricultural.

Wildlife
The Pang hosts a large quantity of wildlife, and plays its own part towards being a part of the community, especially within Pangbourne itself. The river has a good head of wild brown trout (Salmo trutta) up to 3/4 lb and is populated by grayling (Thymallus thymallus), indicating the general good condition of the water.

A concern in this river is the population of American signal crayfish, which have displaced the native white-clawed crayfish species.

The Berks, Bucks and Oxon Wildlife Trust owns a nature reserve straddling the Pang at Moor Copse, close to the village of Tidmarsh. A 29 ha extension to the nature reserve, in the area that is believed to have inspired Kenneth Grahame's work, was purchased in December 2006.

In August 2007 a coalition of the WWF, the National Trust, the RSPB and others called on the British government to adopt their Blueprint for Water. To publicize their campaign they highlighted the dangers to sites well known through literature such as The Lake District (Arthur Ransome's Swallows and Amazons and Beatrix Potter's Mrs Tiggy-Winkle), the North Kent Marshes (Charles Dickens's Great Expectations) and the River Pang.

Water quality
The Environment Agency measures the water quality of the river systems in England. Each is given an overall ecological status, which may be one of five levels: high, good, moderate, poor and bad. There are several components that are used to determine this, including biological status, which looks at the quantity and varieties of invertebrates, angiosperms and fish, and chemical status, which compares the concentrations of various chemicals against known safe concentrations. Chemical status is rated good or fail.

Water quality of the River Pang in 2019:

Etymology
The river is named after a man, thought to be an early Saxon chieftain, or tribe called Pǣga who lived there in the post-Roman era.

title: River Pang


text:
Discovery Park (Seattle)

Discovery Park is a 534 acre park on the shores of Puget Sound in the Magnolia neighborhood of Seattle, Washington. As the city's largest public park, it contains 11.81 mi of walking trails. The Discovery Park Loop Trail, designated a National Recreation Trail in 1975, runs 2.8 mi through the park, connecting to other trails. Forests, beaches, prairies, and bluffs dominate the landscape of the park. Daybreak Star Cultural Center is within the park's boundaries. The West Point Lighthouse is located on West Point, the westernmost point of the park and the entire city of Seattle. On the south side of the North Beach strip is the West Point Treatment Plant which is almost entirely concealed from the marsh, beach, and trail.

The park is built on the historic grounds of Fort Lawton; most of the Fort Lawton Historic District (FLHD) falls within the park (an enclave within the district remains in military hands). Both the FLHD and the lighthouse are on the National Register of Historic Places.

Description
The park is one of the best places in the city to view wildlife, especially birds and marine mammals. The Seattle Audubon Society has compiled a checklist of 270 species of birds seen in the park and nearby waters. Elliott and Shilshole Bays are home to harbor seals and California sea lions, while the wooded areas support Townsend's chipmunks. Most visitors enjoy hiking the Loop Trail, which forms a circuit through forest, meadow, and shrub habitats around the upland portion of the park, and provides excellent views of Puget Sound. Many historical buildings stand in semi disrepair in the main grassy area. The shoreline is accessible by road or trail (the hike back up from the north beach is mildly strenuous), however, a permit is required prior to driving a vehicle to the beach. Free permits can be obtained at the Environmental Learning Center in the East Parking Lot and are designated for qualified individuals only (groups with children 7 and under, seniors 62+, and people with a physical disability). The south beach is on the windward side of the peninsula, Elliott Bay, and the north beach is on the leeward side and has views of Shilshole Bay. At the point between the north and south beaches is West Point and the West Point Lighthouse. Coniferous forest is mostly to be found in the north bluff region and can be accessed from the road that leads to the beach. Deciduous woods surround the two parking lots and the visitor center. Overlooking the south bluff is a large meadow with small trees and shrubs. Bigleaf maple, red alder, bitter cherry, Douglas-fir, western red cedar, and western hemlock make up a large percentage of the tree cover in the park. Invasive species such as Himalayan blackberry, Scot's broom, English ivy, and holly are present throughout, requiring active on-going management to suppress.

History
Discovery Park was created in the early 1970s from land surplus to the U.S. Army's Fort Lawton. The site for the 1100 acre fort had been given to the Army by the city in 1898, and the fort opened in 1900. The Army offered to sell it back to the city for one dollar in 1938 but the city refused, citing maintenance concerns. Much of the land was surplused in 1971, given to the city in 1972, and dedicated as Discovery Park in 1973 in honor of the British sloop HMS Discovery, commanded by Captain George Vancouver during the first European exploration of Puget Sound in 1792. Fort Lawton continued as an Army Reserve facility until it was officially closed at a ceremony on February 25, 2012.

In 2004, the City of Seattle announced it would purchase 23 (later 24) acres of U.S. Navy property within the park. The decision was made to demolish the structures to create open space. In 2008, plans to close Army base Fort Lawton opened up debate over what to do with the former military properties: housing advocates wanted it converted into affordable housing, while some neighborhood groups opposed the idea. The City Council approved building up to 216 housing units, leading to a lawsuit. As of March 2009, the King County Superior Court Judge ordered the city to comply with the State Environmental Policy Act (SEPA) process.

In 2008, a group of homeless people and homeless rights advocates set up camp in the park, but was forced to vacate by the city.

In September 2010, the U.S Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) approved October 10, 2008 Proposed Redevelopment Plan and Homeless Assistance Application for the US Army Ft. Lawton Complex. The HUD letter to the mayor of Seattle stated the need for homeless housing outweighed the need for other redevelopment proposals and that 144 family housing units and over 2000 beds in "supportive" permanent housing should be built and that HUD was ready to assist the city of Seattle, if required.

The park attracts wild animals. In the winter of 2008-2009, a coyote in the park made headlines, and in May 2009, a black bear was seen. In September 2009, the park was closed because of the presence of a cougar. The animal was trapped and transported to the Cascade mountains.

The beach has a history of sporadic clothing-optional use in the more remote areas of its shoreline. This use is not sanctioned by the city. A beach rally organized by The Body Freedom Collaborative's Seattle Free Beach Campaign on September 4, 2004 to shore support for clothing-optional use resulted in the arrest of a man sunbathing, after a complaint was made to the Seattle Police.

In popular culture
The Grunge band Temple of the Dog filmed the music video for their hit single "Hunger Strike" on the shores of Discovery Park.

title: Discovery Park (Seattle)


text:
Wahlhausen

Wahlhausen is a municipality in the district of Eichsfeld in Thuringia, Germany. It is part of the Verwaltungsgemeinschaft Hanstein-Rusteberg.

title: Wahlhausen


text:
Obstructing the field

Obstructing the field is one of the ten methods of dismissing a batsman in the sport of cricket. Either batsman can be given out if he wilfully attempts to obstruct or distract the fielding side by word or action. It is Law 37 of the Laws of cricket, and is a rare way for a batsman to be dismissed; in the history of cricket, there has been only two instances in Test matches, nine in One Day International (ODI) matches, and six in Twenty20 International matches. There have also been seven instances in Test cricket, and two in ODIs, where a batsman has been dismissed handled the ball, a mode of dismissal now folded into obstructing the field.

One modern pattern of obstruction in limited overs cricket occurs when a batsman thinks that he is going to be run out and blocks the ball with his bat, or changes his course while running between wickets to block the ball. The obstruction has to be deliberate.

Definition
Obstructing the field is Law 37 in the Laws of cricket established by the Marylebone Cricket Club (MCC). A batsman can be given out for obstructing the field if he wilfully attempts to obstruct or distract the fielding side by word or action.

Law 37 describes three specific circumstances where this applies, but the Law is not limited to these circumstances:
 * If, in the act of playing the ball, the batsmen wilfully strikes the ball with a hand not holding the bat, unless this is to avoid injury.
 * If either batsman should wilfully obstruct or distract a fielder preventing a catch being made.
 * If, at any time while the ball is in play and without the consent of a fielder, he uses his bat or any part of his person, to return the ball to any fielder.

In the second specific case, the striker is out, as it would have been him who could have been caught were it not for the obstruction. In any other case it is the batsman who obstructs who is out.

If a batsman deliberately alters his course whilst running, or interposes his bat, to block the path of a ball thrown at the stumps by a fielder, the umpire must decide whether the action is wilful. The umpire does not have to judge whether the fielding would have been likely to effect a Run out.

The bowler does not get credit for any obstruction dismissal. Any runs completed before the offence is committed are scored (unless the obstruction prevents a catch being made).

Returning the ball to a fielder
When, after being played with the bat or hitting the batter, the ball comes to rest nearer the batter that any fielder, it may seem natural, polite and quickest for the batter to pick up the ball and give it to a fielder. There is some risk that the fielding team may construe the act to be a wilful obstruction.

Traditionally, a batter would ask the fielding team's consent to touch the ball before doing so, but even if not, if there were any goodwill between the teams, the fielding team would be unlikely to appeal, and unlikely to have their appeal confirmed by their captain, but the umpire would be obliged to give the batsman out if an appeal was made. Batters were advised to ask to avoid the possibility of 'unpleasantness.'

In the modern professional game the question is sensitive, as the fielding side may be trying to keep the ball dry and clean so that they may obtain reverse swing, and may well decline the batter's offer to touch the ball.

The first such dismissal in elite cricket was in an U19 World Cup game against Zimbabwe on 3rd Feb 2024 when England's Hamza Shaikh picked up a stationary ball that he had just played at, and tossed it to the wicketkeeper, who appealed before even catching the ball. Shaikh was given out after lengthy consultation between the onfield and third umpires. Commentators have been uncomfortable with the decision, but the umpires only have to decide whether the ball is in play (if the fielding side acted as if they regarded it as so, that is sufficient) and whether the batter's action was wilful (picking the ball up without consent is sufficient).

Earliest recorded instance
The first known instance of a player being dismissed in a manner equivalent to the modern term 'Obstructing the field' occurred in a minor match at Sheffield on 27 August 1792, between Sheffield Cricket Club and Bents Green. The Bents Green player John Shaw, who scored 7 in the first innings, had his dismissal recorded as "run out of the ground to hinder a catch". The information was recorded by G. B. Buckley who found it in the Sheffield Advertiser dated 31 August 1792. Sheffield won by 10 wickets in a match that was notable for two other reasons, these being that it was the first match played in Yorkshire for which full scores are recorded and it was the earliest known instance of a three innings match.

Test cricket
Two batsmen have been dismissed obstructing the field in a Test match. The first time was during the fifth Test match of South African cricket team's tour of England in 1951, when England's Len Hutton top edged the ball and, thinking the ball would hit the stumps, attempted to hit the ball away which prevented the wicket-keeper from catching the ball. In the second instance, from the second Test of New Zealand's tour of Bangladesh in December 2023, Mushfiqur Rahim defended a ball from Kyle Jamieson and then pushed the ball away with his right hand as it bounced away from the stumps. He also became the first batsman in test to get out by obstructing the field since the rule for handling the ball was included in this law in October 2017.

One Day Internationals
In One Day Internationals, Rameez Raja (for Pakistan against England at Karachi in 1987) was given out for hitting the ball away with his bat to avoid being run out going for his century off the last ball of the innings, and Mohinder Amarnath (for India against Sri Lanka at Ahmedabad in 1989) was given out for kicking the ball away to avoid being run out. Another batsman to be given out this way is Inzamam-ul-Haq of Pakistan in the first ODI of India vs Pakistan Hutch Cup on 6 February 2006. After Inzamam drove the ball to mid off, Indian Suresh Raina threw it back to the striker's end, Inzamam stopping it with his bat while standing out of his crease. Umpire Simon Taufel gave him out adjudging it a wilful obstruction.

Mohammad Hafeez of Pakistan was dismissed obstructing the field on 21 March 2013 in the 4th ODI of the bilateral series match against South Africa. He became the first man to be given out obstructing the field after the new playing conditions were introduced. His teammate, Anwar Ali, was dismissed obstructing the field on 27 November 2013 in the second ODI against South Africa.

Ben Stokes of England was dismissed obstructing the field on 5 September 2015 in the second ODI against Australia for stopping the ball with his hand when the bowler, Mitchell Starc, had thrown the ball in an attempt to run him out. Stokes was outside the crease when he stuck out his hand not holding the bat, blocking the ball which was on a path likely to hit the stumps.

The complete list of batsmen given out obstructing the field in One Day Internationals is:

T20 Internationals
On 23 June 2017, in a Twenty20 match against South Africa, Jason Roy of England was given out obstructing the field, for changing the side of the pitch he was running on when returning from backing up. This caused the returned ball to hit him when he was out of his crease, when it could conceivably have hit the stumps. The South African fielders immediately appealed for a dismissal. Responding to this, the on-field umpires called the ball dead and referred the decision to the third umpire, who gave Roy out.

The complete list of batsmen given out obstructing the field in Twenty20 Internationals is:

Women's T20 Internationals
Indian middle-order batter Anuja Patil was given out obstructing the field in the first innings of the final of the 2018 Women's Twenty20 Asia Cup against Bangladesh. She changed the course of her run en route to the non-striker's end while attempting a single.

Zimbabwean captain Mary-Ann Musonda was given out obstructing the field in the first innings of a game against Uganda during the 2022 Namibia Women's Tri-Nation Series in April 2022. She defended a ball from Janet Mbabazi which then rebounded towards her stumps, then gently hit the ball back to Mbabazi while remaining in her crease at all times.

Other recent instances
Mark Ramprakash was dismissed obstructing the field on 30 July 2011, in a County Championship Division 2 match between Surrey and Gloucestershire. Ramprakash was deemed to have deliberately tried to distract a fielder who was in the act of trying to run him out. He made no contact with the ball and it did not hit the stumps.

Yusuf Pathan of India was dismissed obstructing the field on 15 May 2013 while playing for the Kolkata Knight Riders against the Pune Warriors India in Match 65 of the 2013 Indian Premier League for deliberately kicking the ball while rotating the strike. He became the first player to be dismissed in T20 cricket in this fashion.

Sheldon Jackson was given out obstructing the field on 3 March 2017 during the 2016–17 Vijay Hazare Trophy match against Chhattisgarh. Jackson became only the second Indian batsman to be given out in a List A match in this manner.

Alex Ross of the Brisbane Heat was given out obstructing the field in a Big Bash League match against the Hobart Hurricanes in January 2018 for interfering with an attempted run out. It was the first time in Big Bash League history that a player was given out in this manner.

Ryan Burl was given out in a match in the 2017–18 Logan Cup for obstructing the field, after he protected his wicket by pushing the ball away from the stumps with his hand, having missed the ball with his bat.

Amit Mishra was also dismissed for obstructing the field in the 2019 Indian Premier League Eliminator match against Sunrisers Hyderabad. He changed his line while Khaleel Ahmed was throwing the ball to prevent a run out, and was thus given out.

title: Obstructing the field


text:
William Force Stead

William Force Stead (29 August 1884 – 8 March 1967) was an American diplomat and poet. He became an Anglican clergyman, and chaplain of Worcester College, Oxford, from 1927 to 1930. He is best known for his editorial work on Christopher Smart.

Biography
Stead was born in Washington, D.C. and educated at the University of Virginia. He left the U.S. consular service around 1917 and was a student at Queen's College, Oxford, publishing verses in Oxford poetry. He was ordained and spent time in Italy, before returning to Oxford and Worcester College as a Fellow.

Stead was a friend of T. S. Eliot, and close to him at the time of his 1927 religious conversion, baptising him in the Church of England. He returned to an academic position in the US in 1939, and died in Baltimore.

Works

 * Moonflowers (1909)
 * Windflowers (1911)
 * Holy Innocents (1917)
 * Verd Antique (1920)
 * The Sweet Miracle (1922)
 * Wayfaring (1924)
 * Uriel: A Hymn in Praise of Divine Immanence (1933)
 * The Poetry of the Bible (1938) editor
 * Rejoice in the Lamb: a song from Bedlam by Christopher Smart (1939) editor

title: William Force Stead


text:
Talk:Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem

Untitled
Is this Church the same entity as Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem? --Oichiro 19:57, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * It's the church that patriarch is the head of. Same relationship as between Pope and Roman Catholic Church. --Delirium 20:00, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * Belated thanks, Delirium. --Oichiro 07:07, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)

According to the current Patriarch as quoted in greek media the Patriarchate does not yet have an official website:

( - 4th paragraph from bottom)

The relevant portion of text follows, accompanied the translation:

''Μάλιστα, επισήμανε ότι το Πατριαρχείο δεν διαθέτει ιστοσελίδα, αποκαλύπτοντας ότι αυτή που εμφανίζεται στις συνδέσεις με τα επίσημα sites των Ορθοδόξων Εκκλησιών δεν είναι επίσημη και δεν γνωρίζουν απο πού εκπορεύεται. Πάντως, ετοιμάζεται η επίσημη ιστοσελίδα του Πατριαρχείου.''

''Indeed, he noted that the Patriarchate does not have a website, revealing that the one shown among links to the official sites of the Orthodox Churches is not official and (they) do not know where that (site) comes from. However, the official website of the Patriarchate is in the works.''

Therefore I proceed to tag the links appearing in the external links section as unofficial. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Contributor175 (talk • contribs)

The site is owned by the Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulcher, the question is who actually controls it.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by Frmaximos (talk • contribs)

 * I assume this has to do with difficulties in removing the former patriarch? In any event, I note the website now consists of an "under construction" notice, so perhaps things are moving along. TCC (talk) (contribs) 04:22, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Αρχιγραμματέας: ο Αρχιεπίσκοπος Kωνσταντίνης Αρίσταρχος

Διεύθ.: Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of JERUSALEM, P.O. Box 19 632, Tel. & Fax: 282.048

Merge suggestion
There seems to a lot of overlap with Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem. The two articles should be merged. Alternatively Greek Orthodox Patriarch of Jerusalem should be changed to "List of Greek Orthodox Patriarchs of Jerusalem" Ewawer (talk) 10:27, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

“Arab-ize” the church? But Why?
The clear call from the community to “Arab-ize” the Church has been met with an equally clear refusal from the Greek clergy to give up their influence. The leaders of the Jerusalem Patriarchate have not recognized the community’s complaints as legitimate, arguing that the nationalities of archbishops and patriarchs should not matter and that devotion to the Church is the only important factor.20 In an interview with Ha’aretz reporter Yehouda Letani, Irineos’ predecessor, Diodorus I, questioned:

'When did the Arabs come here?...The Greeks have been here for over 2000 years. They came with Alexander of Macedonia in the year 322 BC, and since then we are still here. The Arabs arrived only during the 7th century. This is our Church, the church of the Greeks, if they do not accept our laws, they have one alternative – choose another Church, or establish one of their own.'

According to West Bank native Archbishop Theodosius, an advocate of reform in the Church, the fault for the division between the leaders of the Greek Church and the Arab lay, does not lie entirely with the Greekinfluenced Brotherhood of the Holy Sepulchre. The maintenance of the family name is important for most Arabs, but this requires marriage; an action that is incompatible with becoming a Greek Orthodox bishop or higher level clergyman.

In addition, Archbishop Theodosius notes, there are a significantly greater number of Greeks in ecclesiastical training than Arabs. He believes that the need to increase the involvement of the lay Orthodox community in the Church supercedes the need to appoint Arabs to high Church positions.

When asked if he and Archbishop Sivestros wanted to see more Arabs in the Holy Synod, Archbishop Theodosius agreed with the other leaders of the patriarchate, “It does not matter where you are from, just that you are sincere to the mission of the Church.” He said, “We care about quality, not nationality. Priests should be educated, dedicated to the Church, and understand its history.” He feels that the greatest problem facing the Church today is corruption, and that if the Synod can work to increase transparency in the Church’s dealings, calls to “Arab-ize” the church will diminish. --Nikoz78 (talk) 07:09, 5 February 2011 (UTC)

Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem
Title "Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem" has 2180 hits on Google Books Search: Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem on Google Books Search and 259 hits on Google Scholar Search: Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem on Google Scholar Search. Sorabino (talk) 22:14, 16 September 2016 (UTC)
 * Don't know why no one replied in 6 years, but yes, it seems "Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem" is the official name. Dan Palraz (talk) 15:47, 17 May 2022 (UTC)

External links modified
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Greek_Orthodox_Church_of_Jerusalem#Orthodox_Knights_of_the_Holy_Sepulchre
The section Greek_Orthodox_Church_of_Jerusalem now contains a bare list made from the former Category:Orthodox Knights of the Holy Sepulchre, see Categories for discussion/Log/2018 August 9. – Fayenatic  L ondon 21:46, 29 August 2018 (UTC)

Arabization movement
An article about the movement to Arabize the patriarchate is being created. Everyone is welcome to contribute: Draft:Arabization of the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem. Makeandtoss (talk) 10:29, 10 January 2023 (UTC)


text:
Arnold of Soissons

Arnold (Arnoul) of Soissons or Arnold or Arnulf of Oudenburg (c. 1040–1087) is a saint of the Catholic Church, the patron saint of hop-pickers, Belgian brewers.

Biography
Arnold, born in Brabant, the son of a certain Fulbertus was first a career soldier before settling at the Benedictine St. Medard's Abbey, Soissons, France. He spent his first three years as a hermit, but later rose to be abbot of the monastery. His hagiography states that he tried to refuse this honor and flee, but was forced by a wolf to return. He then became a priest and in 1080, bishop of Soissons, another honor that he sought to avoid. When his see was occupied by another bishop, rather than fighting, he took the opportunity to retire from public life, founding the Abbey of St. Peter in Oudenburg.

As abbot in Oudenburg, Arnold brewed beer, as essential in medieval life as water. He encouraged local peasants to drink beer, instead of water, due to its "gift of health". During the process of brewing the water was boiled and thus freed of pathogens, making the beer safer to drink. The beer normally consumed at breakfast and during the day at this time in Europe was called small beer, having a very low alcohol content, and containing spent yeast. It is likely that people in the local area normally consumed small beer from the monastery, or made their own small beer at the instructions of Arnold and his fellow monks. During one outbreak of sickness, Arnold advised the local people to avoid consuming water, in favor of beer, which advice effectively saved lives.

One miracle tale says, at the time of an epidemic, rather than stand by while the local people fell ill from drinking water, Arnold had them consume his monastery brews. Because of this, many people in his church survived the plague. This same story is also told of Arnulf or Arnold of Metz, another patron of brewers.

Legacy
There are many depictions of St. Arnold with a mashing rake in his hand, to identify him. For example, the label on "Steenbrugge Abbey" beers has a picture of St Arnold holding a mash rake.

Arnold is honoured in July with a parade in Brussels on the "Day of Beer."

Miracles that were reported at his tomb were investigated and approved by a council at Beauvais in 1121; in 1131 Arnold's relics were transferred to the Church of St. Peter, Oldenburg in Aldenburg. St. Arnold's feast day is 14 August.

title: Arnold of Soissons


text:
Södermanlands storregemente

Södermanlands storregemente or Landsregementet i Södermanland (Södermanland Grand Regiment, Regiment of the Land in Södermanland) was one of the nine grand regiments organized by Gustavus Adolphus in the late 1610s and split into smaller regiments in the 1620s.

History
Raised in Svealand from smaller units of 500 men called fänikor, more specifically from the provinces of Södermanland, Närke and Värmland, in 1614 and counting 3,000 men. The grand regiment was in turn organized into three field regiments (fältregementen) and a cavalry regiment, thus actually being more like a brigade in spite of the name.

The Scot Alexander Leslie led the regiment between 1622 and 1624. The grand regiments of Sweden where reorganized during the period to consist of three field regiments, each of eight companies of 150 men, thus making the total number 3,600 soldiers per grand regiment. It is unsure whether or not the cavalry regiment was included in the total number.

Between 1624 and 1627, the regiment was split into three smaller regiments, Södermanlands regemente, Närkes regemente and Värmlands regemente (these two were soon after merged into the Närke-Värmland Regiment) and the cavalry unit Svenska adelsfanan.

Campaigns

 * None.

Organization
Before being split, the regiment was organized as follows:

 * 1:a fältregementet (1st Field Regiment)
 * 5 companies from Närke
 * 3 companies from Vadsbo-Valle Härad (in Västergötland)
 * 2:a fältregementet (2nd Field Regiment)
 * 8 companies from Värmland
 * 3:e fältregementet (3rd Field Regiment)
 * 8 companies from Södermanland
 * Kavalleriregementet (Cavalry Regiment)
 * 10 companies from different parts of Sweden

title: Södermanlands storregemente