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Georges Biassou

George Biassou (1 January 1741 – 14 July 1801) was an early leader of the 1791 slave rising in Saint-Domingue that began the Haitian Revolution. With Jean-François and Jeannot, he was prophesied by the vodou priest Dutty Boukman to lead the revolution.

Like some other slave leaders, he fought with the Spanish royalists against the French Revolutionary authorities in colonial Haiti. Defeated by his former ally Toussaint Louverture, who had allied with the French after they promised to free the slaves, Biassou remained in service to the Spanish Crown. He withdrew from Santo Domingo in 1795 and moved with his family to Florida, which was then part of the Spanish colony of Cuba.

In Florida, Biassou changed his first name to Jorge. Spanish leaders put him in charge of the black militia in Florida. He began to build alliances there when his brother-in-law married a fugitive from South Carolina. Florida had provided refuge for both planters and slaves during the American Revolution.

Georges Biassou was born in 1741 on the island of Hispaniola, as a slave on a sugar plantation in the French colony of Saint-Domingue, modern day Haiti. He was an early leader of the 1791 slave revolt in Saint-Domingue, in which he and his fellow leaders, Jean-François Papillon and Jeannot Bullet, killed the plantation owners to whom they were enslaved. This ultimately led to the Haitian Revolution (1791-1804). Biassou and Jean-François offered to cease the revolt, in exchange for emancipation, however France was preoccupied with multiple wars, and hence dismissed this proposal. In 1793, a war between France and Spain manifested in Hispaniola. Biassou and his fellow revolutionaries were requested to aid Spain in fighting against France in exchange for freedom, to which they agreed. France abolished slavery throughout its empire in 1794, however Biassou remained loyal to Spain.

In 1796, Biassou relocated to St. Augustine, Florida, where he became the general of the free black militia stationed at Fort Matanzas. He died there in 1801.

Saint-Domingue
Georges Biassou was born in 1741 in Saint-Domingue, Hispaniola. Hispaniola is an island which previously consisted of Saint-Domingue on the western third, and Santo Domingo on the east. Saint-Domingue is now recognised as the Republic of Haiti, and Santo Domingo as the Dominican Republic. The island lies in the Greater Antilles, a group of islands in the Caribbean Sea and part of the West Indies. Saint-Domingue was initially claimed by Spain, which later ceded the colony to France. France controlled Saint-Domingue from 1659 to 1804, and it became the most lucrative colony in the French colonial empire, as well as throughout the Caribbean. Saint-Domingue was known as the “Pearl of the Antilles” for its resources, subsequent profitability and beauty. The economy hinged on slave plantations and their production of export crops. Enslaved Africans grew sugar in the northern plains around Cap Français, and coffee in the mountainous terrain. Georges and his family laboured on a sugar plantation. By the 1780s, Saint-Domingue produced 40% of all sugar and 60% of all coffee in Europe, profiting the French government and further reinforcing its dominance. To maintain this economy, from 1786 onwards, approximately 40,000 slaves were annually imported into Saint-Domingue from Africa. The Saint-Domingue colony was regarded as one of the harshest, considering the high levels of violence and mortality. The plantation owners were notoriously brutal, often using whips for the punishment of their slaves, producing an unprecedented standard of violence.

Social structure
Saint-Domingue's population was stratified with a rigid caste system. The population was divided into three groups. White colonists, or ' les blancs'  were of the highest rank. This group was subdivided into government officials and plantation owners, referred to as  'grandes blancs' , and a lower class of whites, referred to as  'petits blancs' , who were usually shopkeepers, artisans and labourers. Free persons of colour, or ' gens de couleur libres', were 'mulattoes' who were decedents of white fathers and black mothers. They were relatively educated and were usually administrators on plantations, or in the army. Some even owned their own plantations and slaves. This strata also included 'affranchis', who had been free for generations, owned property and enjoyed considerable rights. They were, however, excluded from positions in office and some occupations. Members of this stratum often identified more so with the whites, however still faced distinct social differentiation. African-born slaves, such as Georges Biassou, ranked the lowest. In 1789, Saint-Domingue housed 500,000 slaves and 32,000 whites. This colonial stratification pattern laid the foundation of Haiti's present day class system.

Social conflict
White colonists and black slaves continually participated in violent conflict, many of which involved “maroons”. Paul Fregosi, in his book Dreams of Empire: Napoleon and the First World war 1792-1815, emphases that each of the three social classes in Saint-Domingue despised one another.

In May 1791, the French government granted citizenship to wealthier emancipated slaves, often referred to as “affranchis”. This caused uproar among the small European population of Saint-Domingue, who refused to treat them as equal. This, as well as generations of inequality and brutality, caused Biassou and other African slaves to become enraged

July 1791 saw physical fights between Europeans and African slaves, and in August of the same year, a slave rebellion rose. Georges Biassou attended the Vodou ceremony at Bois-Caiman where Vodou priest, Dutty Boukman, declared that Georges Biassou, Jean-François Papillon and Jeannot Bullet would lead the insurrection. Jean-François executed Jeannot early in the uprising due to his excessive violence and cruelty, particularly that he commanded a rebel camp in which he tortured and executed white prisoners.

Haitian Revolution
The Haitian Revolution was a series of conflicts which began on 22 August 1791 and ended on 1 January 1804. It involved Haitian slaves, "affranchis", “mulattoes”, colonists, French royalist troops, French revolutionary forces, and the British and Spanish armies. The revolution was initially an insurrection against French imperial authority; however, it later became a battle of racial inequity, and then of slavery in general. Thomas Madiou's Historie d’Haïti (English: History of Haiti) emphasises that within the first months of fighting, Georges Biassou and Jean-François Papillon became the most important insurgent leaders. Biassou commanded approximately 40,000 slaves to burn plantations and murder the “great whites”. Biassou and Papillon proposed peace negotiations with France, offering to cease the revolt in exchange for emancipation. France was preoccupied, being at war with several monarchies and kingdoms, and hence dismissed this proposal. Concurrently, Biassou and Papillon developed informal contacts with Spain, which controlled Santo Domingo.

In 1793, France declared war on Spain, a war which eventually manifested in Hispaniola. Spain granted freedom to the revolutionaries in exchange for their assistance in battling France in Santo Domingo. A military organisation called the Black Auxiliaries of Charles IV was formed for the rebel leaders. Members included Georges Biassou, Jean-François Papillon, Toussaint Louverture and other rebels. The Black Auxiliaries were provided with weapons, supplies, and salaries. Biassou ultimately received Spanish citizenship, gold medals, and letters of recognition and confidence from the Spanish Government.

Slave emancipation in Saint-Domingue
In 1792, abolitionist Léger Félicité Sonthonax was sent to Saint-Domingue from France to maintain order. He was titled the de facto ruler of Saint Domingue from September 1792 to 1795. Sonthonax also offered freedom to slaves who joined his army. In September and October 1793, slaves were emancipated throughout Saint-Domingue. Some insurgents, including Toussaint Louverture, withdrew from the Black Auxiliaries to return to Saint-Domingue and support the French.

Loyalty to Spain
Biassou and François remained loyal to Spain, despite that it meant they were to fight against their former fellow, Louverture. Biassou and François both continued defending Spain until the war ended. Spain was grateful for this loyalty, however, as the war concluded, the Spanish government no longer knew what to do with its Haitian “wolves”. The revolutionists were armed, skilled and former members of an army.

On February 4, 1794, all slaves were emancipated throughout all French colonies. This was enforced under an Act, and was ratified by the French National Convention. With the Treaty of Basel in 1795, Spain ceded Santo Domingo to France. Spain subsequently disbanded the Black Auxiliaries, meaning that its members, including Biassou, were to leave Hispaniola.

St. Augustine
In 1795, the Black Auxiliaries left Santo Domingo and headed to Cuba. However, Cuban officials feared that their presence would provoke slave movements in Cuba. Thus, the Black Auxiliaries were prohibited from entering. Instead, they sailed to St. Augustine, the capital of East Florida, which was also under Spanish control. St. Augustine had already enforced racial equality laws in 1792, thus providing refuge for emancipated slaves, and even former planters.

Upon arrival, St. Augustine's Governor, Juan Nepomuceno de Quesada y Barnuevo, provided two nights worth of dinner for Georges and his Haitian followers, who he considered family. Georges changed his name to “Jorge” and was hereafter a free Spanish general. He was appointed leader of the Black Militia of St. Augustine, which he commanded from Fort Matanzas. Although Biassou was largely perceived as a hero, the violence he caused in his pursuit of freedom was no secret. Considering this, colonists and administrators in Florida feared Biassou, worrying that he might encourage a slave revolt in Florida too. They were especially weary as there had been two slave uprising conspiracies in Pointe Coupée, Louisiana, which is relatively proximal to Florida. Despite this, Governor Quesada made an effort to maintain Biassou's image as a loyal soldier, rather than a rebel. Biassou wore gold-trimmed clothing and carried both a silver sabre and an ivory dagger.

Constitution of 1801
Whilst Biassou settled in St. Augustine, Napoleon Bonaparte developed a new French constitution for all its colonies. Toussaint Louverture propagated the constitution on 7 July 1801, and established himself as governor of Hispaniola. Article 3 of the constitution states, ''“There cannot exist slaves, servitude is therein forever abolished. All men are born, live and die free and French.”''

Final years
Georges Biassou lived in the Salcedo House in St. Augustine. He bought a plantation, farmed by slaves of his own. Biassou continued to serve Spain in his final years, defending Florida against attacks of the Seminole Indians. He had achieved 10 years of freedom before he died at age 60 on 14 July 1801, during a drunk brawl. He was honoured with a Catholic mass and was buried at the Tolomato Cemetery. The exact location of his gravesite is unknown, as most grave markers were made of wood and have long since disappeared.

Legacy
Georges was commemorated as a Spanish officer and an honourable veteran, and was recognised with a Guard of Honour at his Funeral. On 1 January 1804, the island of Hispaniola was declared an independent state, divided into the Republic of Haiti and the Dominican Republic. Haiti is the only nation that has emerged from a successful slave rebellion in modern history. Haiti's independence exposed an interdependence between slave emancipation and the construction of a sovereign state, giving rise to issues such as the definition of citizenship and difficulties in laying political foundations. Georges Biassou's impact surpassed the domestic threshold and influenced world politics permanently. The Haitian revolution dictated the structure of international relations in the forthcoming 19th century with its defeat of the French colonial empire, and subsequent impact on Spain and England, who emerged weakened from the conflict and remained cautious for years to come.

In August 2009, the US Ambassador to Haiti, Raymond Joseph, visited St. Augustine to raise awareness for Haitian-American heritage. He visited Biassou's home, fort and cemetery, and placed a wreath in front of the chapel in Tolomato Cemetery in honour of Biassou. In 1798, Biassou also appeared as a fictional character in Jean-Baptiste Picquenard's novel, ' Adonis, ou le bon nègre, anecdote coloniale' (English: Adonis, or the good negro, colonial anecdote), in which he is depicted as a "cruel and bloodthirsty leader".

Witness accounts
A witness account titled ' The revolution of Saint-Domingue, containing everything that occurred in the French colony from the start of the revolution until the author's departure for France on 8 September 1792' (title translated to English) is written by an anonymous author, who is only identified by the fact that he is a white male. He details his experiences of being a white prisoner, being held captive on the first night of the uprising, August 22, 1791. This account provides a vivid first-person perceptive.

Monsieur Joseph Gros was one of Jeannot Bullet's white prisoners at his rebel camp. Gros also published an account, in which he states that Jeannot ordered for one prisoner to be tortured and executed every 24 hours, in order to “prolong his enjoyment”. Jeannot Bullet would be tried and executed for this by Georges Biassou and Jean-François Papillon.

Contemporary scholarship
Biassou's life has been thoroughly studied by scholars and historians, such as Jane Landers. Landers is a historian who has conducted research on Biassou and black society in Spanish Florida for decades, with a PhD in Latin American Colonial History. Her work provides most of what is known about Georges Biassou. She has written several books on the topic of black society and culture, a few of which are titled:

 * Against the Odds: Free Blacks in the Slave Societies of the Americas
 * Atlantic Creoles in the Age of Revolutions
 * Black Society in Spanish Florida

Biassou is also figured as a character in Madison Smartt Bell's 1995 novel, All Souls Rising, the first book in his Haitian Revolutionary trilogy series. It attempts to present a historically accurate rendition of the Haitian Revolution. The novel illustrates vivid details that are not facts, per se, but are based on actual events. The book also graphically depicts the witness account of Monsieur Joseph Gros. It was nominated for the 1996 PEN/Faulkner Award and a finalist for the 1996 US National Book Award. It also won the 1996 Anisfield-Wolf Award for best book of the year which dealt with matters of race.

title: Georges Biassou


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Talk:National League (baseball)

Designated hitter
The article states that without the designated hitter rule ". . . the role of the manager is more important in terms of actual play". How is this so? -- Prometheus7Unbound 01:23, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Because he has to make critical decisions about whether to leave a pitcher in or put in a pinch-hitter for him in late innings of a close game. In the AL they have no such problem. They leave a pitcher in as long as he's effective, because he doesn't bat. Wahkeenah 03:54, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

St. Louis
The St. Louis Cardinals page indicates that the current Cardinals team evolved from the brown stockings, contradicting what this article says about only the Braves and the Cubs being modern equivalents. Which is right? --jcarkeys 02:10, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

It was a different team. The early National League team folded. The Brown Stockings or Browns of the AA were a new team in 1882. However, if you could find some evidence that it was the same organization, which was merely inactive for a few years, that would be worth noting. But I don't think so. All the literature I've seen indicates the current Cardinals date their beginnings from the 1882 club. Wahkeenah 03:52, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Philadelphia and New York
The article currently states that Philadelphia and New York were new franchises in 1883. However, I have read some other sources that indicate they were indeed transferred from older cities. The Worcester team (formed in 1880), relocated to Philadelphia, and Troy (formed 1879) moved to New York. Cincinnati, however, is the same team that it was in 1876. They were booted from the NL in 1880, spent one year playing independently, then joined the AA in 1882. The same team then transferred to the NL in 1890, along with the Brooklyn entry from 1884. David Nemec and his book The Beer and Whiskey League help shed some light on this area concerning the AA. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Baseball247 (talk • contribs) 00:21, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

More on this: The Phillies' own history states: "The original Phillies began when the Worcester Ruby Legs were disbanded and the franchise was moved by the National League to Philadelphia." Additional sources note that once the Worcester team was disbanded, the Philadelphia team (Quakers) was organised and that there was no connection between the teams, just a case of the League replacing one franchise spot with another. That indicates the team didn't relocate, but that a new one rose to fill the space left by the disbanded one.

This would make the article's sentence: "Since the NL's formation, the Cubs are the only team to play continously in the same city" inaccurate, as the Phillies have certainly been in Philadelphia continuously since 1883.

The Reds have been in Cincinnati even longer, just not continuously in the National League. Nevertheless they have also been in the same city since the formation of the NL, so technically the sentence is inaccurate on two fronts.

 * Hence the wording "The Cubs are the only charter member to play continuously in the same city." That is a true statement. The Reds club dates from 1882. The 1876 Reds team was a different team from the 1882 team. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 12:38, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Canada-Accuracy dispute
I dont think interleague play in Toronto should count as the NL in canada because it should be determined with which teams make their home in the country, No NL team plays at home in canada. Someone who doesn't care to look at the "edit page" and doesn't know much could get the wrong idea, and even if not, it still seems incorrect to me. Crd721 (talk) 08:23, 16 June 2008 (UTC)
 * MLB itself spans USA and Canada. That point is a little confusing in the article. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 12:40, 17 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The issue seems to be the flag. I just about changed it to say (Interleague play only), and then it occurred to me that although there have also been regular-season games in places like Japan, Mexico and Puerto Rico (albeit as "neutral sites), the NL itself is not based in those countries and their flags are not shown. So neither should the Canadian flag be shown. It's fair to retain the fact that MLB is in both Canada and USA. I wouldn't say this is the last word on the subject, though. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 12:44, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I removed the accuracy tag, as the thing I objected to is gone now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Crd721 (talk • contribs) 05:02, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

 * If I had known that was what the tag was for, I could have removed it myself, a month ago. Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? 05:10, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Timeline
I created a timeline of the National League, and think it would be a good addition to this page. It nicely illustrates the how the league grew and changed over time. I'm pretty sure I got all the teams in there, although some of the nicknames might be a little wonky as they didn't become official for most teams till the '20s or 30's. shaggy (talk) 00:57, 7 September 2008 (UTC)

NL Entry fee
The math here is confusing; it lists $172 as the 2007 equivalent for $10 in the late 1800s. Shouldn't it read that it cost $10 in 2007 dollars, and XX cents in 1875 dollars? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.147.139.184 (talk) 21:17, 24 July 2009 (UTC)

Red Sox or Braves?
The article states "... game between the Orioles and Boston Beaneaters (a precursor to the Red Sox) in 1894 ended up having tragic consequences when players became engaged in a brawl and several boys in the stands started a fire." The Red Sox didn't exist until the American League was created in 1901; the Beaneaters would've been the precursor to the Boston Braves, not the Red Sox. 199.43.48.149 (talk) 20:29, 4 February 2011 (UTC)

Proposed merge
NL Constitution --> National League The orphan stub doesn't contain enough context or independent notability to remain its own page. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:55, 20 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Merge Androids101 (talk) 08:42, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Correction needed for Houston Colts / Colt 45s
The fact that the Houston club was originally the "Colt 45s," then the "Colts," and then the Astros should be made clear in the article. I don't remember when the 1st change was made but I believe it was only in the 1st season that they were the "Colt 45s." (There was a trademark dispute with the Colt Mfg. Co. that prevented them from continuing to use the "45s".) I'm really surprised that's not already in this article. 209.179.21.14 (talk) 22:57, 12 August 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on National League. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110607201939/http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/almanacweekly/story.aspx?guid={D7AC1A0C-DAFA-42EE-A8C9-5BBB9E237651}&dist=msr_1 to http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/almanacweekly/story.aspx?guid={D7AC1A0C-DAFA-42EE-A8C9-5BBB9E237651}&dist=msr_1

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 18:56, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

Oh Lord.
What a mess. The posting about the Cincinnati Reds under "Current Teams" is soooooo off. You had them listed in the NL East, which they never played. The modern club was formed in 1882 in the American Association. Period. It has nothing to do with the first and second incarnation of the Reds. I edited it to fix it. Hopefully it will stay that way.

Cincinnati Stars
The 1880 Cincinnati club was a separate franchise than the 1876-79 club. I can pump you full of articles that support this. Retrosheet has corrected the record. Wiki should consider correcting theirs as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by SCSRdotorg (talk • contribs) 08:30, 24 December 2017 (UTC)

Terrible sentence structure
The passage pasted below is horribly written and borderline unreadable. Seems like it was written by a 12-year-old. It may be the longest run-on sentence in the history of the English language. There must be someone with the factual expertise and writing ability who can present this info in a more orderly and grammatically correct fashion. …

(After two years of conflict in a "baseball war" of 1901–1902, the two eight-team leagues agreed in a "peace pact" to recognize each other as "major leagues", draft rules regarding player contracts, prohibiting "raiding", regulating relationships with minor leagues and lower level clubs, and with each establishing a team in the nation's largest metropolis of New York City, and the league champions of 1903 arranged to compete against each other in the new professional baseball championship tournament with the inaugural "World Series" that Fall of 1903, succeeding earlier similar national series in previous decades since the 1880s.) 72.78.108.80 (talk) 03:42, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Suggested move to National League (baseball)
This page received 14.9k views last month. National League (division), the page about the English football league received 149k views in the same time period. While page views are not the only criterion in designating WP:Primarytopic, it is really clear that this page should not be the primary article for such a broad title.

There are 'national leagues' all around the world in every nation and it is only US-centrism that would make this the most notable among those. My personal suggestion would be to move this page to National League (baseball) (which is already has as a redirect) and to move National League to National League (disambiguation), which can note in the lead that the two most prominent National Leagues are the English (soccer/football) and North American (baseball) National Leagues. Please vote on your agreement/disagreement for the proposed move and outline any counter-suggestions below. Mountaincirque talk 11:33, 13 March 2023 (UTC)

 * It's certainly an ambiguous term. I regularly update links, intended mainly for National League (division), which wrongly imply that people and clubs in other sports play baseball. Certes (talk) 14:36, 13 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The baseball league definitely meets the historical importance criteria, as it has over 100 years more history than the soccer division. The views for National League (division) abnormally high, so I'd like some assurance that these aren't artificially inflated by some unknown factors (not implying ill intent in any way). BilCat (talk) 03:06, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanks, all fair comments. The National League (division) (which is also part of the National League (English football) is a very popular league, even though it is the 5th tier of football in England and Wales, football is huge here and there are 24 sides from across the countries taking part in the top tier. I have just used this tool to double check the views over a 7.5 year period: |National_League_(division), it shows that National League (division) had 5.75mn views, compared to National League's 2.32mn since July 2015.
 * However, a reminder that I am not advocating for National League (division) or to be made the WP:Primary, I am arguing that National League should be a disambiguation page as the baseball league is very notable and historic, but only in the USA really. It would still be listed in the disambiguation page lead, as it currently is. There are so many 'national leagues' around the world in both politics and sport, that it just doesn't compute that the American one should be 'grandfathered in' despite having minimal page views and having an English league of the same name that many people will be looking for here.
 * For a final statistical look, I have compared National League with National League (division) and its constituent league pages (North/South/combined): |National_League_(division)|National_League_(English_football)|National_League_North|National_League_South - it is clear to me that your general Wikipedia user looking for the 'National League' will be looking for football/soccer information in 5/6 of cases, not baseball. Mountaincirque talk 10:34, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, National League (English football) is a pyramid of three divisions – National League (division) above National League North and National League South – and forms the top part of the National League System. The (division) topic dominates both page views and location-agnostic search results and is clearly the sole candidate for primary topic by usage.  The baseball competition may still be primary by long-term significance.  Faced with such a conflict, we often put the disambiguation page at the base name. Certes (talk) 11:42, 14 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This discussion has been posted for 3 days at this stage and there hasn't been any major disagreement with the proposed move to rename this page National League (baseball) (an existing alias of the page), and point the generic National League to the disambiguation page. I will wait another day or so and then be bold and make the move. As Certes and myself pointed out above, there is a clear split claiming a WP:Primary in this case between history and usage statistics, making it a very strong example for putting the disambiguation page as the base name. Mountaincirque talk 10:30, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I support the move but such a high-profile topic might merit a formal RM first, so that it gets advertised in the usual places to attract more opinions. We could also notify WikiProject Disambiguation and the relevant sporting WikiProjects. Certes (talk) 11:24, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I object to moving without a discussion. The baseball league is one of the major baseball leagues, and the football league is in the fifth division of English football. Page views notwithstanding, the baseball league is the primary topic. I'll oppose a RM and I imagine a lot of WP:BASEBALL editors will as well. – Muboshgu (talk) 16:42, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Agreed. L EPRICAVARK ( talk ) 17:29, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Concur. I wasn't objecting strongly above because this is an informal discussion, not an RM. Had I realized the OP intended to move the article on the basis of this discussion alone, I'd have pointed that out at the beginning of this. The baseball league is high profile, not just in the US but in the wider baseball world as well, so an proper RM need to be done. BilCat (talk) 19:15, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * @BilCat is correct that the numbers are inflated. This is likely due to the TV series Welcome to Wrexham and international interest surrounding the football club Wrexham AFC in Wales. This new found interest is likely to be short lived over time. Nemov (talk) 17:27, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * There may be something else going on too that skews the numbers, like a transclusion or something. I'm not up on the technical side of things, but hopefully that will come out in an RM. It might be good to compare the page views of the higher divisions of English soccer to see if they are also this high or not. BilCat (talk) 19:21, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * This being a Wrexham-related spike makes a lot of sense. It looks like page views increased once in November 2020 after Rob and Ryan bought the team and again in August 2022 when Welcome to Wrexham debuted. – Muboshgu (talk) 19:28, 16 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The data here cannot be disregarded as a spike related to the Welcome to Wrexham show. I posted a 7.5 year graph in the thread above, the views for National League (division) have been slightly higher over the entire period with a more recent spike in interest. This disregards the fact that there is another page National League (English football) which also has high views (that page covers the three divisions that fall under the National League umbrella). So if you take the combined page views for the National League (football), they are substantially higher over 7.5 years, as shown in the other graph I posted; the views for this baseball page are below even those of the National League South and National League North, the 6th tiers of English football that don't have the 'Wrexham factor'. Here and here for a reminder: |National_League_(division) & |National_League_(division)|National_League_(English_football)|National_League_North|National_League_South
 * A reminder that this is not a thread calling for National League (division) to be the primary topic, and I acknowledge that choosing a primary isn't on page views alone. But as an editor trying to be neutral this is quite clearly an example of where the primary topic should be a disambiguation page due to the majority of people looking for 'National League' globally not wanting to find content on baseball, a sport that is not played globally. The USA doesn't have claim to the words 'National League', which is about as generic a term you can get and has been used worldwide for various sports and political parties for over a century. I'd argue also that considering the fact that the 'baseball page' is currently sat at the primary that its view count is massively inflated due to people landing there looking for soccer information.
 * Based on the more detailed comments above I agree that taking this to an RM would be highly preferable and I won't be making any moves. Mountaincirque talk 11:55, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

The National League has been around since 1876. I'd oppose changing the title. GoodDay (talk) 21:50, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

 * That's not how WP:Primarytopic works. Why should the vast majority of people looking for soccer content be forced onto a page about Baseball because it happened to originate first? That's not a good encyclopedia if you have lots of people going to the wrong place. The logical and fair option is to show them a list of 'National Leagues', highlighting the fact that the soccer and baseball leagues are the most notable in the opening sentence. Mountaincirque talk 11:58, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Age is a factor, but not the only one. Boston, Lincolnshire has been around since at least the 11th century, yet Boston is still about the younger American city named for it. Certes (talk) 14:06, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

 * I also oppose a move based on long term significance (having used the name for over a hundred years before) and notability. The recent spike in page views doesn't erase the facts that the baseball league is the (co) top flight of the sport in the world and has been consistently the most notable thing under that name for over a century. A fifth-tier league in one country doesn't compare. At all. If the National League needs disambiguation, then so does the Premier League. oknazevad (talk) 14:50, 17 March 2023 (UTC)
 * I've addressed the fallacy that this is a recent 'spike' above. The NL football pages have been getting more views than baseball for 7.5 years, until recently when they have been trouncing them. The National League is the successor to the Football Conference and Alliance Premier League, and has 72 teams from across England and Wales competing in a 44-year-old competition, this results in a huge ongoing interest in the inter-connected and similarly-named pages across: National League (English football), National League (division), National League System, National League North and National League South. The combined monthly views for that eco-system of pages last month were 294,328 |National_League_(division)|National_League_System|National_League_North|National_League_South|National_League. Page views here? 16,587, less than any of the above pages, and I'd guess a substantial proportion of the views here are people who have ended up on the wrong page. Put any biases aside for a second and ask yourself if a page should be the primary even if it has only 5.6% of page views for the 6 main pages containing 'National League'.
 * I find your comment on the Premier League quite disingenuous, the Premier League is the most-watched sport league in the world with an audience peak of 4.7 billion across 212 territories whereas the National League (baseball)/MLB is only really watched in North America, it had over 1.6 million page views last month. The numbers above pale in comparison, in fact they are 1% almost exactly. If Wikipedia was just for North America and the rest of the world didn't exist then this page would definitely fairly sit at National League. However, there are 211 other territories, and the vast majority of them don't play baseball.
 * Would you rather have 95% people arrive at a page that they weren't looking for, rather than make a sensible choice to disambiguate based on global searches/usage. Having a (baseball) after the page title isn't some massive disrespect, it's a way to make the encyclopedia accessible and understandable and not waste thousands of peoples' time every month. Mountaincirque talk 11:32, 20 March 2023 (UTC)
 * 95% people arrive at a page that they weren't looking for - I'm confused how you are coming to this conclusion that users are landing on the wrong page in the first place. If they were landing on the incorrect page, wouldn't the view numbers represent an increase on National League? Regardless, without some type of path analysis we can't come to that conclusion.
 * All that said, while I'm not particularly opposed with the disambiguation, I do not think age and prominence should be simply overlooked.  Skipple  ☎  07:08, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * The 95% figure is not substantiated. In February, there was 13.2K incoming views of "National League", and "National League (division)" was not listed among the top 10 outgoing clicks.  The 10th entry had 194 clicks. Neither was "National League" listed as a top 10 incoming source for "National League (division)" —Bagumba (talk) 12:24, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Cool tool! Exactly was I was looking for.  Skipple  ☎  15:54, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Happy to retract that, I had mis-presented the stats. What I was referring to was that of all the main 'National League' pages, this one only gets 5% of the total hits. But I went off piste with flipping that to 95%. Another editor above noted that there are often many link corrections needed on soccer pages as people assume that National League is a soccer page, I think I had that in my mind. Mountaincirque talk 16:29, 23 March 2023 (UTC)
 * Bagumba, just to let you know that I only added the disambiguation link for National League (division) into this article last week. Someone in their wisdom had decided to only link to the disambiguation page, rather than the most viewed page. So it's no wonder that the page isn't in the 'top links out', it wasn't there until a few days ago. Mountaincirque talk 08:53, 24 March 2023 (UTC)
 * English football has over 70% of the pageviews for "Premier League" It also dominates incoming wikilinks (with 16,000) and search results. Quantitatively, it's a very different case. Certes (talk) 12:27, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Requested move 27 April 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved. There's a consensus that whilst the baseball conference is probably the top of the list, it doesn't reach PRIMARYTOPIC status because of the generic nature of the name. I also don't think the argument that the English football league is temporally more notable because of Wrexham is particularly persuasive against the argument that the baseball conference isn't primary. Basically, User:Jayron32 puts the general thrust of this discussion better than I do! (closed by non-admin page mover) Sceptre (talk) 15:10, 7 May 2023 (UTC)

– The baseball league has longer-term significance but is not the primary topic by usage, National League (division) having significantly more pageviews and international search results. Please see other arguments for and against the moves in the preceding section. Certes (talk) 10:12, 27 April 2023 (UTC)
 * National League → National League (baseball)
 * National League (disambiguation) → National League
 * Oppose The only reason I see discussed as a motivation for the move in is based on page views. That's only one factor. Pageviews and primary topics is a good essay on this. The baseball league is the primary topic based on the long-term significance. It was founded in 1876, surviving competing leagues until meeting their match with the American League and forming Major League Baseball, the top-level in baseball. The football league is fifth-level, founded in 1979, and is seeing a pageview spike due to the publicity around Wrexham, which just won the National League. And Wrexham was promoted to the fourth-level for next season. – Muboshgu (talk) 04:03, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * As discussed and proven in the previous topic, the page views for National League (division) have been higher in almost every month since November 2015, claims about the TV show are in denial of the longer-term data. This '1 v 1' comparison doesn't take into account the fact that there are secondary pages at National League (English football) and National League System that captures the three divisions in the National League, which when considered together dwarf National League: link here |National_League_(division)|National_League_(English_football)|National_League_System. Another point to note is that is can be seen in this data that at times when there is most interest in National League (division), National League also spikes, so the number for this page would undoubtedly be significantly lower without people ending up here rather than at a soccer page. Mountaincirque talk 12:12, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose - Per Muboshgu, the baseball league has long-term significance over any other topic, and thus is primary. BilCat (talk) 08:12, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose, per above; long-term notability points us to the current primary topic. 162 etc. (talk) 14:30, 28 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Given the population disparity, it is highly unusual for a UK topic to beat out a US topic by usage (especially by a more than 5x margin: 2022 full-year data). As an American I am quite surprised, but we should listen to the numbers here and organize ideas in the most helpful way for our readers. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 00:24, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * This is way out of proportion to the norm, as I mentioned above. It makes me think there is something odd going on, like a small group of very obsessive users who visit the site multiple times a day, or perhaps a website that links to the article and accesses it excessively. Again, I'm not implying malice on anyone's. part, just that the amount of page views so unusually high that they should probably be ignored. BilCat (talk) 01:59, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Location-independent search results also favour English association football over U.S. baseball here. Even when I search via Tor with a U.S. exit node, I consistently see a majority for the UK topic over the U.S. one across Google, Bing, Yahoo and DuckDuckGo.  I don't think it would justify moving the English league to the base name, but it's definitely enough to prevent anything else being a primary topic. Certes (talk) 11:36, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry @BilCat but I'm not following your logic, "so high it should be ignored", I think you hav just underestimated how popular football is here that even the fifth tier is hugely supported. We can see that from November 2015 the views for the English soccer pages have been consistently higher than this baseball page. There are 24 teams in the top English National League division and people will use the pages regularly to check league tables etc. Mountaincirque talk 13:26, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * You're actually undermining your own point that the views aren't skewed. And since neither of you are arguing (bludgeoning!) for the soccer division to be the primary topic, it's going to be two clicks for viewers anyway. That leaves historical significance as the main factor here, and that's clearly the baseball league. BilCat (talk) 19:05, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I support making "National League" a disambiguation page. I agree with the earlier analysis that historical trends, predating recent events, supports there being multiple primary terms for National League. isaacl (talk) 00:44, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support the English football league has exceeded the American baseball league in pageviews for long enough that it cannot be discounted as a result of American interest in a TV show about Wrexham AFC. As there are so many other entries on the DAB page, there is no primary topic here.  The "long-term interest" claim I must discount as interest in the National League separate from Major League Baseball has clearly been declining over time. Walt Yoder (talk) 20:36, 29 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Support per Isaacl. It's unhelpful to have one organisation be the primary topic. RoadSmasher420 (talk) 04:46, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * pinging those who contributed above but not here. Certes (talk) 11:20, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose per my previous comments. An unusual spike in recent page views doesn't trump the century-plus primacy of the topic in long-term significance. And a fifth tier league on one small island doesn't trump the highest level of a sport in the world. oknazevad (talk) 11:29, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * How long is "recent"? Pageview data only goes back to 2015, but for at least 8 years the football article has had |National_League_(division) more views almost every month except for the MLB finales in October, and 2.5 times as many in total.  Should we wait another couple of years for WP:10Y to apply before moving the pages? Certes (talk) 11:47, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Are you mistaken in thinking that this is a request to make National League (division) primary? It's not. It's a request for a disambiguation page, which is clearly needed for such a generic title that is little known internationally and is not the most searched for term. Mountaincirque talk 12:14, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose Per Muboshgu. Plus, I suspect the pageviews to change now that Wrexham has been promoted to another division. Now isn't the time for this change. Nemov (talk) 14:00, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * See Certes' pageview link; although there is certainly an increase in the last year, even during 2015-2021 the English league has been consistently 2x the baseball league. -- King of ♥ ♦</b><b style="color:black"> ♣</b><b style="color:black"> ♠</b> 17:40, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Nemov, please actually consult the data rather than suspecting anything or going on an unproven statement by another editor, you can see that there has been more interest in the soccer page since late 2015. Link here to data: |National_League_(division)|National_League_(English_football)|National_League_System Mountaincirque talk 12:15, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Weak Support - While the age and prominence of the league should not be overlooked, the generic naming of the league, which has multiple uses across the world, is a good argument in support to move to the disambiguation page. Per other's arguments, I don't think simply pageviews is a good rational for this move given the current circumstances surrounding National League (division). <span style="font-family:Gadugi;font-size:90%;border-radius:0em 1em;padding: 0.05em 0.9em;background:#3160B5;"> Skipple  ☎  14:14, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose the baseball league has long-term primary significance. The football league is currently experiencing a very brief spike in popularity that seems unlikely to last. L EPRICAVARK ( talk ) 19:41, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose - What can I say. When I read or hear "National League"? Major League Baseball comes to my mind. GoodDay (talk) 20:43, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Perhaps the most commonly rejected criterion is that the primary topic should only belong to what "first comes to mind". Certes (talk) 21:36, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * This is not how we decide page titles in Wikipedia. You are meant to be building an encyclopedia for the world, not just yourself or America. Please read WP:NWFCTM. There are 'National Leagues' around the world and not much reason for the USA to have the main page for it other than the fact that it is mostly Americans here. Mountaincirque talk 12:17, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support. There are many national leagues in the world. This is just one. This probably is the first one that comes to mind for Americans, but not for most other people around the world. -- Necrothesp (talk) 12:34, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

 * Strong support - It is clear that if we are creating a global encyclopedia here we need to carefully disambiguate pages with generic titles such as National League. There are national leagues in sports and politics around the world and despite the baseball league being old and notable it does not justify being the primary article at present as there are many other 'National Leagues' and some of them such as the soccer leagues are much more heavily viewed. Sadly, it seems that many editors want to 'protect' baseball from the ignominy of not being the primary page and are going to vote accordingly rather than by best practice. I hope that that editors can put their own bias aside and look at the bigger picture worldwide.
 * For those on the fence, I ask you to think for a minute from the perspective of a British person (National League (division)), an Indian person (Indian National League), Swiss person National League (ice hockey), Burmese person (National League for Democracy and Myanmar National League). I hope that the admin closing this page can neutrally analyse the subtexts here and realise that that getting the American baseball community of editors watching this page to support move 'their own' page to a disambiguation is going to be a challenge, despite it being necessary.
 * Mountaincirque talk 12:53, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Subtle request for the closing admin to ignore the oppose !votes
 * Not-so-subtle insinuation that opposers are acting in bad faith.
 * Policy-based argument in favor of moving the page. ❌
 * As the purportedly baseball-centric editors might say, that's three strikes. I get that your position is likely to win this RM, but in the future please remember to assume good faith and to refrain from insulting hard-working contributors who happen to disagree with you. L EPRICAVARK ( talk ) 20:53, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Sorry if you or anyone else were insulted, that wasn't my intent. I thought it a fair comment that people protect the things they are interested in and passionate about, I implied no maliciousness to that. Mountaincirque talk 15:11, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Mountaincirque: For future reference, avoid commenting on other people, even obliquely in discussions such as this. Especially don't speculate on the motivations of others.  Always assume that everyone who has voted differently than you did so for the same reasons you did: they read the relevant policies and guidelines, they formulated an overall opinion by weighing various options based on the evidence, and they came down with what they thought was the best result because of that.  I'm fairly certain that's what you do when you comment on discussions like this, so it's safe to say that everyone else is as well.  Poisoning the well in discussions is generally quite rude.  Avoid doing so and you'll have very little problems at Wikipedia.  -- Jayron <b style="color:#090">32</b> 18:19, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

 * Support Seems reasonable. While the baseball topic may have a few marginal claims to a primary topic, they are not so overwhelming as to overcome the alternate organization scheme.  There's enough other topics called "National League" that it makes more sense to me to make that a DAB page.  -- Jayron <b style="color:#090">32</b> 13:21, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support as National League (baseball) has weak claims to be the primary topic. This may seem strange because interest in MLB and its teams will dwarf those of the National League (English football) and its clubs. However, I suspect the low page views is because it is not a particularly important page among those covering MLB topics. I'm sure the page views for the main MLB page, the season pages (which cover both NL and AL), and the team pages will all be much (orders of magnitude?) higher. There is relatively little reason to look at National League (baseball) page itself because other pages provide most of the information. — <span style="font-family:Arial;background:#d6ffe6;border:solid 1px;border-radius:5px;box-shadow:darkcyan 0px 1px 1px;"> Jts1882 | talk 13:51, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose The baseball league is far longer established and has a far bigger following.  The football competition in England is far younger and the name 'National League' is the third name it has used (ignoring sponsors).  Red Jay (talk) 14:07, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * This is a move request to disambiguate a very broadly titled page, not to shift the primary to the football league page. Maybe reconsider on that basis? Mountaincirque talk 15:40, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support I liked Necrothesp's perspective on this. Take a global view of all national leagues. Paul W (talk) 14:22, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support as a DAB page is better when the baseball tournament doesn't clearly demonstrate that it's the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. National League is a common name for many sports, so depending where in the world people are from, they could be looking for any of a multitude of leagues. <b style="color:#0033ab">Joseph</b><b style="color:#000000">2302</b> (talk) 16:03, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose - The baseball league is clearly the primary topic. The soccer league is more popular right now because it's the league Wrexham A.F.C. are in, but that will change once their promotion takes place at the end of the season. – PeeJay 16:19, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @PeeJay do you care to review the data on that...as your hypothesis isn't borne out. There are a few page view data posts above, showing 8 years of the soccer pages being more viewed (which is the extent of the data). This was long before Wrexham's buy-out. Mountaincirque talk 17:16, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * You made your argument eight times on this RM. While I don't necessarily disagree with your arguments, this is bludgeoning at this point. Let's let the process play out. <span style="font-family:Gadugi;font-size:90%;border-radius:0em 1em;padding: 0.05em 0.9em;background:#3160B5;"> Skipple  ☎  17:53, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Skipple I've only been adivising that people look at data to inform their view, which is surely a light form of 'bludgeon'. I've frankly found it very frustrating that erroneous views are being peddled on the page views being skewed, we're meant to be logical. I do however take your point and will disengage from further comments. Mountaincirque talk 18:18, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support no clear primary topic for this fairly generic title. WP has a global audience, not just North American sports fans. Spike 'em (talk) 18:10, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support Someone interested in baseball would probably be looking for the baseball page, someone interested in soccer would be looking for the English page. Wikipedia isn't a country specific encyclopedia (and especially since English is the dominant language in both England and the United States - if one of those countries spoke a different language, then maybe the logic regarding a country tie could be made). As a North American who enjoys MLB baseball as well as European football/soccer, I recognize that both are important topics in their respective sports. A disambiguation page is not diminishing the importance of either article, but instead recognizing that both are important. Primary topic are supposed to be clear and obvious (ie. like a worldwide recognition that transcends borders). This does not as different sides of the Atlantic will think of different things when they hear the term, therefore a diambiguation page makes sense. RedPatch (talk) 19:16, 2 May 2023 (UTC)

<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: #FF0000;">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support Clearly a disambig page is the way to go as claiming that the American baseball league is the primary topic is US-centric and claiming that the English soccer league is the primary topic is Euro-centric. Both get plenty of coverage and notability in each country and also a bit globally. --SuperJew (talk) 19:20, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support There is a world outside the US and it is a bit disingenuous to claim that people only think of baseball when they say National League because in the UK and Europe, people might assume the non-league football league. It's best to just disambiguate to make it fair for all.  The C of E God Save the King!  ( talk ) 22:27, 2 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support national league just being a disambiguation is fair, seems odd its not already. if anything, a page that would warrant the article without any parsers would the football division. though with wrexham no longer in it, people's interest in the division will wain. neither should be primary, however.Muur (talk) 07:06, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Support I found the pageview detail (over some years, not just this year) to be somewhat surprising, but it is clear that this is not the primary topic and should be disambiguated. I am not entirely sure why "historical significance" is being argued as a thing, though; the point of disambiguation is to make it easier for our readers to find the article they want to read, which at this moment in time and for quite a few years has not been the baseball one. Black Kite (talk) 10:36, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * WP:PRIMARYTOPIC refers to long-term significance to avoid basing decisions on a temporary spike or lull in popularity. If no one had read the football articles until Wrexham hit the headlines, then this RM would deserve to fail, because a move could be justified only in the short term.  What we need to decide is whether pageview data from 2015–2020, coupled with other evidence such as global search results, make the case for a move. Certes (talk) 15:27, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Comment. May I remind participants that the proposal is certainly not saying that the British football league is primary (it's not even close). These are not the only two entities around the world called "national league" by a very long shot. We need a global perspective, neither American nor British. -- Necrothesp (talk) 13:26, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Exactly, this is a case where the proposal is that National League is such a general and internationally used term that there is WP:NOPRIMARY. For soccer alone I've found: National League (division) (England), New Zealand National League, Samoa National League, Gibraltar National League, Bhutan National League, Myanmar National League, Nepal National League and the Russian Football National League. There are tens of other examples across other sports including cricket, hockey, netball, ice hockey and basketball.
 * This argument shouldn't be boiled down to page views as that is only one factor, my main argument is that this is a global encyclopedia and we need to be very careful on pages like this to avoid systemic bias and try for a neutral point of view. I'm sure all of us here acknowledge that National League (baseball) is intrinsically significant, while acknowledging that there are 'National Leagues' all around the world that deserve to be listed in a disambiguation page, rather than being Americentric. Mountaincirque talk 15:47, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * https://pageviews.wmcloud.org/massviews/?platform=all-access&agent=user&source=wikilinks&range=latest-90&sort=views&direction=1&view=list&target=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National%20League%20(disambiguation) seems to clearly indicate a lack of primary topic by usage. At the same time, https://wikinav.toolforge.org/?language=en&title=National_League registers a negligible ratio of hatnote clicks. Still, with a title this generic, it seems like the safe choice is to make it fully disambiguated for a while, observe the statistics in a few months time after the search engine patterns settle, and then decide whether there's a primary topic. --Joy (talk) 17:17, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * @Joy as noted in the previous discussion, there was no hatnote until I added one last month. Mountaincirque talk 18:02, 3 May 2023 (UTC)
 * I guess you mean but the basic hatnote was there before. While it's possible that this additional hatnote link dispersed that traffic a bit, as a whole it does not register in the top 20 which is not typically indicative of a need to do anything. In any event, I've already noted that it doesn't have to matter. --Joy (talk) 18:19, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

Post-move clean-up
I've fixed the incoming links from templates, FAs, GAs and pages which contain neither "baseball" nor "MLB". All but four were for the baseball league (though I've fixed plenty of others in the past). About 7,500 links remain. Do we think it's safe to change the rest of the links to National League automatically by bot into piped links to National League (baseball)? Certes (talk) 00:52, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

 * Now halved following sterling efforts by and others, so let's wait awhile before resorting to a bot which might make mistakes. Certes (talk) 11:12, 8 May 2023 (UTC)

List of Previous Winners
This article seems to be missing a simple list of winners by year. John arneVN (talk) 04:59, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

 * It's at the linked entry List of National League pennant winners. Mind  matrix  15:29, 31 December 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:National League (baseball)


text:
Category:Waterfalls of Norway

Notable waterfalls of Norway.

title: Category:Waterfalls of Norway


text: Category:Geography of Norway

title: Category:Geography of Norway


text:
Jeannot

Jeannot, was a leader of the 1791 slave rising that began the Haitian Revolution. With Biassou and Jean François, he was prophesied by Dutty Boukman to lead the revolution, and fought with the Spanish royalists against the French Revolutionary authorities in colonial Haiti.

He launched vicious attacks on whites and mulattoes, devising gruesome methods of putting them to death. Toussaint Louverture was sickened by his attitudes and actions. (Beard, p. 55)

"Small, thin man with a forbidding manner and a veiled crafty face. He was utterly remorseless... even towards his own kind. ... He would stop at nothing to gain his own ends, he was daring, seizing quickly on chances, quick-witted and capable of total hypocrisy. He feared no one and nothing; unfortunately he found inspiration in cruelty, a sadist without the refinements that so-called civilization brings." (Parkinson, p. 40) "He hanged those he had captured by hooks stuck under their chins. He himself put out their eyes with red-hot pincers. He cut the throat of a prisoner and lapped at the blood as it flowed, encouraging those around him to join him: "Ah, my friends, how good, how sweet is the blood of the whites. Drink it deep and swear revenge against our oppressors, never peace, never surrender, I swear by God." (Parkinson, p. 43-4).

Jeannot's brutality was not limited to whites and free blacks. He also targeted blacks who he suspected of loyalty to the white slave owners. One rebel commander named Blin, who helped some white slave owners to reach safety, for example, was brutally executed for treason by Jeannot. A man named Gros, who was among a group of white prisoners in a rebel camp under Jeannot's command, left behind a written account of the period. According to Gros, Jeannot ordered the torture and execution of one of his captives every 24 hours 'to prolong his enjoyment'. Before the execution of Gros and the other remaining prisoners, however, a higher ranking rebel leader, Jean-François, arrived in the camp. Jeannot was subsequently arrested, placed on trial, and executed on the orders of Jean-François (Dubois, p. 112, 123).

title: Jeannot


text:
Timeline of alcohol fuel

Ethanol, an alcohol fuel, is an important fuel for the operation of internal combustion engines that are used in cars, trucks, and other kinds of machinery.

 * Ethanol was first isolated from wine in approximately 1100 and was found to burn shortly thereafter. These early solutions distilled from wine-salt mixtures were referred to as aqua ardens (burning water) or aqua flamens (flaming water) and had such low alcohol content that they burned without producing noticeable heat. By the 13th century, the development of the cooling coil allowed the isolation of nearly pure ethanol by distillation.
 * Ethanol has been used for lamp oil and cooking, along with plant and animal oils. Small alcohol stoves (also called "spirit lamps") were commonly used by travelers in the 17th century to warm food and themselves.
 * Before the American Civil War many farmers in the United States had an alcohol still to turn crop waste into free lamp oil and stove fuel for the farmers' family use. Conflict over taxation was not unusual; one example was the Whiskey Rebellion in 1791.
 * In 1826, Samuel Morey uses alcohol in the first American internal combustion engine prototype.
 * In the 1830s, alcohol blends had replaced increasingly expensive whale oil in most parts of the country. It "easily took the lead as the illuminant" because it was "a decided improvement on other oils then in use."
 * By 1860, thousands of distilleries churned out at least 90 e6USgal of alcohol per year for lighting. Camphene / alcohol blends (at $.50 per gallon) were cheaper than whale oil ($1.30 to $2.50 per gallon) and lard oil (90 cents per gallon). It was about the same price as coal oil, which was the product first marketed as "kerosene."
 * In 1860, German inventor Nicolaus Otto uses ethyl alcohol as a fuel in an early internal combustion engine.
 * In 1862 and 1864, a tax on alcohol was passed in the U.S. to pay for the Civil War, increasing the price of ethanol to over $2.00 per gallon. A new product from petroleum, called kerosene, is taxed at 10 cents a gallon.
 * In the 19th century, spirit lamps, pigeon lamps and others used a variety of blends of alcohol and oils in Europe. Alcohol powered not only automobiles and farm machinery but also a wide variety of lamps, stoves, heaters, laundry irons, hair curlers, coffee roasters and every conceivable household appliance. By one estimate, some 95,000 alcohol fueled stoves and 37,000 spirit lamps had been manufactured in Germany by 1902.
 * By the 1890s, alcohol-fueled engines are starting to be used in farm machinery in Europe, making countries more fuel independent. Research at the Experimental Mechanical Laboratory of Paris and at the Deutsche Landwirtschaftliche Gesellschaft in Berlin in the 1890s helped pave the way for expanded use of alcohol fuel.
 * By 1896, horseless carriages (cars) were showing up on roads in Europe and the United States. Because gasoline is so cheap and abundant, and also because ethanol is taxed at a high level, early US automobiles are adapted to gasoline from the beginning. Racing cars, on the other hand, usually used ethanol (and other alcohols) because more power could be developed in a smaller, lighter engine. Charles Edgar Duryea builds the first U.S. gasoline powered car but is aware of Samuel Morey's ethanol fueled experimental car of 1826. Henry Ford's first car, the Quadracycle, is also built that year. The car runs on gasoline, but Ford is aware of experiments with ethanol in Germany, and subsequently backs the lifting of the U.S. tax on industrial uses of ethanol.
 * In 1899, the German government taxed petroleum imports and subsidized domestic ethanol. Kaiser Wilhelm II "was enraged at the Oil Trust of his country, and offered prizes to his subjects and cash assistance ... to adapt [alcohol] to use in the industries."
 * In 1901, the French ministry of agriculture offered prizes for the best alcohol-fueled engines and household appliances.
 * In 1902, the Paris alcohol fuel exposition exhibited alcohol powered cars, farm machinery, lamps, stoves, heaters, laundry irons, hair curlers, coffee roasters, and every conceivable household appliance and agricultural engine powered by alcohol. This exhibit traveled widely through Europe and was featured at the 1907 Jamestown, Virginia tricentennial celebrations.
 * In 1906, the Free Alcohol bill is passed. The USA repeals the alcohol tax under Teddy Roosevelt. At 14 cents per US gallon, corn ethanol was cheaper than gasoline at 22 cents per US gallon. Bills pass that exempt farm stills from government control. In backing the bill, U.S. President Teddy Roosevelt says: "The Standard Oil Company has, largely by unfair or unlawful methods, crushed out home competition... It is highly desirable that an element of competition should be introduced by the passage of some such law as that which has already passed in the House, putting alcohol used in the arts and manufacturers upon the [tax] free list."
 * Starting in 1901, the discovery of new oil fields in Texas causes the price of gasoline to drop to between 18 and 22 cents per US gallon by 1906, undercutting farm ethanol markets
 * In 1908, the Ford Model T is introduced. Early models had adjustable carburetors to run on ethanol with gasoline as an option.
 * In 1909, the U.S. Geological Survey reports: "In regard to general cleanliness, such as absence of smoke and disagreeable odors, alcohol has many advantages over gasoline or kerosene as a fuel… The exhaust from an alcohol engine is never clouded with a black or grayish smoke." Overall, alcohol was "a more ideal fuel than gasoline."
 * In 1914, the Free Alcohol bill is amended again to decrease the regulatory burden and encourage alcohol fuel production in the U.S.
 * In 1917 Alexander Graham Bell says: "Alcohol makes a beautiful, clean and efficient fuel… Alcohol can be manufactured from corn stalks, and in fact from almost any vegetable matter capable of fermentation… We need never fear the exhaustion of our present fuel supplies so long as we can produce an annual crop of alcohol to any extent desired."
 * In 1918, Scientific American says it is "now definitely established that alcohol can be blended with gasoline to produce a suitable fuel …" Another article notes that the Pasteur Institute of France found it could obtain 10 USgal of ethanol per ton of seaweed.
 * In 1919, Prohibition of beverage alcohol in the U.S. leads to suggestions for more ethanol use as an anti-knock blend with gasoline. Farm belt politicians are split on ethanol as a fuel. While distillers could have a new market for their alcohol, some thought that allowing any distillery to stay open would be a "bargain with the devil."
 * In the 1920s and 1930s, Koolmotor, Benzalcool, Moltaco, Lattybentyl, Natelite, Alcool and Agrol are some of the gasoline-ethanol blends of fuels once found in Britain, Italy, Hungary, Sweden, South Africa, Brazil and the USA (respectively).
 * In 1920, David White, chief geologist of US Geological Survey, estimates total oil remaining in the US at 6.7 Goilbbl. "In making this estimate, which included both proved reserves and resources still remaining to be discovered, White conceded that it might well be in error by as much as 25 percent."
 * In 1921, leaded gasoline is developed at the General Motors research laboratories in Dayton, Ohio. GM researcher Thomas Midgley Jr. still maintains: "The most direct route which we now know for converting energy from its source, the sun, into a material that is suitable for use in an internal combustion motor is through vegetation to alcohol… It now appears that alcohol is the only liquid from a direct vegetable source that combines relative cheapness with suitability (although other sources might be found)… Alcohol will stand very high initial compressions without knocking, and at high compressions is smooth and highly satisfactory.".
 * In 1921, British engineer Harry Ricardo patents racing fuels RD1 and RD2 (for Ricardo Discol) that contained methanol and ethanol, acetone and small amounts of water. These were widely used on race tracks throughout Europe and the US in the 1920s and 30s.
 * In 1923 leaded gasoline is marketed, and by 1924 GM and Standard Oil Co. form the Ethyl Corp. Ethyl claims it has "solved" the problem of engine knock, but public health scientists (e.g. Alice Hamilton of Harvard University) are appalled at the prospects for lead poisoning and insist that alternatives such as ethanol blends are available.
 * In 1923 Rolls-Royce engine designer Harry Ricardo writes: "…It is a matter of absolute necessity to find an alternative fuel. Fortunately, such a fuel is in sight in the form of alcohol; this is a vegetable product whose consumption involves no drain on the world’s storage and which, in tropical countries at all events, can ultimately be produced in quantities sufficient to meet the world’s demand, at all events at the present rate of consumption. By the use of a fuel derived from vegetation, mankind is adapting the sun’s heat to the development of motive power, as it becomes available from day to day; by using mineral fuels, he is consuming a legacy – and  a limited legacy at that – of heat stored away many thousands of years ago. In the one case he is, as it were, living within his income, in the other he is squandering his capital. It is perfectly well known that alcohol is an excellent fuel, and there is little doubt but that sufficient supplies could be produced within the tropical regions of the British empire…"
 * In 1923, the price of alcohol from molasses was less than 20 cents per US gallon, while retail gasoline prices had reached an all-time high of 28 cents per gallon. Standard Oil experiments with a 10% alcohol, 90% gasoline blend for a few months to increase octane and stop engine knock.
 * In 1923, French assembly passes the Carburant National law requiring gasoline importers to buy alcohol for 10% blends from the State Alcohol Service. The law has a far-reaching impact as many other nations, especially Brazil and other sugar-cane growing countries, were influenced to enact similar laws based on the French and German programs.
 * By the mid-1920s, ethyl alcohol is blended with gasoline in every industrialized nation, and some blends are showing up as experiments in the United States, but the market is dominated by leaded gasoline.
 * In October of 1924, a catastrophic miscalculation in the production of leaded gasoline causes at least 17 refinery deaths and many dozens of permanently debilitating injuries. GM and Standard very nearly abandon leaded gasoline, but decide to defend it, claiming (contrary to their own prior published research) that ""So far as science knows at the present time, tetraethyl lead is the only material available which can bring about these [antiknock] results."
 * In 1925, Henry Ford tells The New York Times that ethyl alcohol is "the fuel of the future" which "is going to come from fruit like that sumach out by the road, or from apples, weeds, sawdust -- almost anything. There is fuel in every bit of vegetable matter that can be fermented. There's enough alcohol in one year's yield of an acre of potatoes to drive the machinery necessary to cultivate the fields for a hundred years."
 * In 1926, US Public Health Service allows leaded gasoline to return to the market.
 * In 1928 Harry Ricardo, National Distillers Co. and Shell Oil introduce an alcohol fuel blend in the United Kingdom called "Cleveland Discol." The ethanol blend is a popular unleaded gasoline brand and is sold through 1968.
 * In August 1930, the German government required all gasoline importers to buy 2.5% of the volume of their imports from the German Alcohol Monopoly, and the ratio was increased to 6% and then 10% by 1932. Estimates of alcohol used in 1932 vary from 44 million liters to about 175 million liters. Some 36,000 small farm alcohol stills, owned by the monopoly, were in operation at this time. By 1938, Germany was producing about 267 million liters of ethanol, about two thirds from potatoes and the rest from grain, wood sulfite liquors and beets. Some 89 million liters of methanol were produced from coal, while other synthetic fuels included 550 million liters of benzene and over one billion liters of synthetic gasoline. All told, 54% of the pre-war German fuel production was derived from non-petroleum sources, of which 8% was ethanol from renewable sources
 * In the 1930s, the Dust Bowl drought and Great Depression forced many more farmers to move to the cities looking for work, leaving their alcohol fuel stills behind. Henry Ford, a farmer himself, supported ethanol's use over gas.
 * In 1933, faced with the 25% unemployment of the Great Depression, the European concept of finding new markets for surplus farm products is widely discussed, with ethanol-gasoline blending among the most significant. Fuel blending experiments begin in Peoria, IL, Spokane WA, Lincoln, NE, and Ames, IA. Federal and state governments consider tax advantages to help ethanol production and increase employment among farmers. By 1935 the Chemurgy movement emerges, supported by farmers, Republicans, and Henry Ford. Along with ethanol, chemurgy research included the industrial development of agricultural raw materials such as hemp, soybeans and new products from biological materials, such as hemp & soybean plastics and inks.
 * In 1933, a campaign to end Prohibition in the United States emerges. Concerned about renewed interest in ethanol for fuel, the American Petroleum Institute begins a campaign against ethanol blends, claiming such "will harm the petroleum industry and the automobile industry as well as state and national treasuries by reducing [oil] consumption," the sole beneficiaries allegedly being distillers, railroads (which would transport the alcohol) and bootleggers "to whom would be opened brand new fields of fraud." Prohibition ends with the passage of the Twenty-first Amendment to the United States Constitution on December 5, 1933.
 * From 1933 to 1939, various oil companies and the American Petroleum Institute argued that tax incentives for ethanol would hurt the oil industry, reduce state treasuries, and create a bootlegger' atmosphere around fueling stations. They also claimed alcohol fuel was inferior to gasoline.
 * In 1937, the farm chemurgy movement finds backers for the Agrol ethanol fuel plant, created at Atchison, Kansas. For two years, ethanol blends were sold at around 2,000 service stations in the U.S. Midwest. Agrol plant managers complained of sabotage and bitter infighting by the oil industry, and the cheaper price of gasoline. Agrol sold for 17 cents per gallon, while leaded gasoline sold for 16 cents.
 * In 1939, Agrol production shuts down.
 * In 1942, chemists who designed the Agrol ethanol plant, especially Leo Christensen, go to work producing ethanol for aviation fuel and synthetic "Buna-S" rubber for World War II. By 1944, petroleum based synthetic rubber production lags, and three quarters of all tires, raincoats, engine gaskets and other rubber products for the war effort come from ethanol.
 * In 1942, a war investigating committee led by then-Senator (and future president) Harry Truman makes public evidence that the oil industry had colluded with German chemical companies, especially I.G. Farben, to prevent the development of synthetic rubber production in the United States. Standard Oil (Exxon) had entered a partnership that it described as a "full marriage" designed to "outlast the war" no matter who won.
 * In 1949, S. J .W. Pleeth, chemist for the Cleveland Discol company in Great Britain, writes: "The bias aroused by the use of alcohol as a motor fuel has produced [research] results that are incompatible with each other ... Countries with considerable oil deposits -- such as the US -- or which control oil deposits of other lands -- such as Holland -- tend to produce reports antithetical to the use of fuels alternative to petrol; countries with little or no indigenous oil tend to produce favorable reports. The contrast ... is most marked. One can scarcely avoid the conclusion that the results arrived at are those best suited to the political or economic aims of the country concerned or the industry sponsoring the research. We deplore this partisan use of science, while admitting its existence, even in the present writer."
 * In 1964, a seven-car crash kills drivers Dave MacDonald and Eddie Sachs on the second lap of the Indianapolis 500, as over 150 USgal of gasoline burned. Johnny Rutherford, who was also involved in the crash, survived, mainly because his methanol-fueled car had not ignited. The United States Auto Club bans gasoline and switches all cars to methyl alcohol (methanol), a rule which would stay for 41 years before ending after the 2005 race.
 * During the Nigerian Civil War of 1967 to 1970, Engineers in the breakaway republic of Biafra resorted to powering vehicles with alcohol. Initially, alcohol was used to supplement the crude oil refining capacity which the fledgling state had under its control, but as the Soviet and UK backed Nigerian army seized the oil producing regions, and with the Nigerian embargo beginning to bite, alcohol became the dominant source of fuel for the economy.
 * In 1971, the Nebraska Agricultural Products Industrial Utilization Committee (or "Gasohol" Committee) is formed to find new uses for surplus grain. The commission tests ethanol-gasoline blends in thousands of cars over millions of miles, proving that ethanol can be used as an octane-boosting additive to replace leaded gasoline.
 * In 1973, the Arab oil embargo creates a worldwide energy crisis, leading to intensified search for alternative energy sources. Also, in the same year, the government of Brazil starts the program "Pró-Álcool" in order to substitute gas-powered vehicles in favor of automobiles powered by ethanol. Such program would lead to the development of the first ethanol powered automobile motor in the world.
 * In 1979, President Jimmy Carter's administration creates federal incentives for ethanol production. Federal and state subsidies for ethanol amount to about $11 billion between 1979 and 2000, as compared to about $150 billion in tax credits for the oil industry (from 1968–2000), according to the General Accounting Office.
 * By the mid-1980s, over 100 new corn alcohol production plants are built and over a billion US gallons of ethanol for fuel were sold per year. The ethanol program is controversial for several reasons, not the least of which was that the ethanol industry was dominated by one company – Archer Daniels Midland of Peoria, Ill.
 * In 1984, the number of ethanol plants peaked at 163 in the U.S., producing 595 e6USgal of ethanol that year.
 * In 1988, the George H. W. Bush administration proposes a cleanup of "air toxics" in gasoline, focusing on replacing benzene octane boosters with ethanol. The proposal leads to one part of the 1990 Clean Air Act.
 * In the late 1980s and 1990s, an oil surplus drives gasoline prices down as low as $12 per barrel, driving most of the ethanol industry into bankruptcy.
 * In 1990 and 1992, Congress passes amendments to the Clean Air Act encouraging the use of ethanol and other oxygenated fuels as replacements for benzene, toluene and xylene octane boosters. MTBE becomes the oil industry's favorite additive, but as water pollution problems were recognized, MTBE is banned in California. Ethanol production rises to the 4 e9USgal level.
 * Between 1997 and 2002, three million U.S. cars and light trucks are produced which could run on E85, a blend of 85% ethanol with 15% gasoline. Almost no gas stations sell this fuel however.
 * In the early 2000s, the invasion of Iraq makes Americans aware of their dependence on foreign oil. This and worry over anthropogenic climate change causes leading alternative energies like biofuel, solar and wind to expand 20 to 30% yearly.
 * In 2003, California is the first state to ban MTBE. Several other states start switching soon afterward. California consumes 900 e6USgal of ethanol a year, about a third of all the ethanol produced in the United States.
 * In 2004, Crude oil prices rise by 80%. Gasoline prices rise 30% in the U.S. Diesel fuel rises almost 50%. These rises are caused by hurricane damage to oil rigs in the Gulf of Mexico, attacks on Iraqi oil pipelines, disruptions elsewhere, and rising demand for gasoline in Asia, as Asians buy more cars. Alcohol fuel prices are much closer to the price of gasoline. The ethanol industry in the USA makes 225000 oilbbl per day in August, an all-time record. Some conventional oil fuel companies are investing in alcohol fuel. Oil reserves are forecast to last about 40 more years. Total use (demand) of ethanol is 3.53 e9USgal.
 * In 2005, E85 sells for 45 cents (or 30-75 cents wholesale) less than gasoline on average in the United States. More than 4 million flexible-fuel (capable of running on E85 as well as gasoline) vehicles exist in the United States. About 400 filling stations exist in the US that sell E85 fuel, mostly in the Midwest. Gasoline prices rise as ethanol prices stay the same, due to rapidly growing ethanol supply and federal tax subsidies for ethanol. Wholesale ethanol prices drop nearly 30% between January and April, or $1.75 to $1.23 per gallon in the U.S.
 * In 2005, the earliest-documented test of driving a car designed solely for gasoline use, long-distance solely on 100% butanol fuel occurs as American motorist David Ramey drove from Blacklick, Ohio to San Diego, California using 100% butanol in an unmodified 1992 Buick Park Avenue.
 * In 2006, the Indy Racing League switches to a 10% ethanol-90% methanol fuel mixture, as part of a phase-in to an all-ethanol formula in 2007. Bill Gates buys a quarter of Pacific Ethanol Inc. for $84 million.
 * In 2007, United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization Special Rapporteur for the Right to Food urges five-year moratorium on food based biofuels, including ethanol, saying its development is a "crime against humanity." The UN Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO) calls this "regrettable," and UN secretary-general Ban Ki-Moon, called for more scientific research. "Clearly biofuels have great potential for good and, perhaps, also for harm."
 * In 2008, Bill Gates sells most Pacific shares held by Cascade Investment for a loss of $38.9 million.

title: Timeline of alcohol fuel


text:
Talk:Hamburg cell

Ziad Jarrah
Other sources that led me to this article (most notably his own Wikipedia article), suggest that Ziad Jarrah cannot be proven to have taken part in the activities of the Hamburg Cell. I have noted this in the intro paragraph. While it would make sense that he associated with the other hijackers at this time, since he did live in Hamburg, he is the "sore thumb" hijacker who did everything differently from all the other hijackers, so it really can't be said for sure yet that he was conclusively involved-- at least, it seems to me. --Gloriamarie 19:59, 2 October 2006 (UTC)

t's pretty conclusive that Jarrah was involved or at least affiliated with Atta, alShehi and Binalshibh. He attended al Quds mosque, was seen in the wedding video with binalshibh and alshehi, he visited afghanistan and traind with them and was seen in a video in afghanistan with Atta as well as bin laden and other top al qaeda agenst. Although he attended a different school than Atta and alShehi, and was more outwardly western, the evidence is pretty convincing that he was a member of the Hamburg cell KarlJohannes 05:35, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I strongly disagree. There is no evidence they ever met in Hamburg. – Quadell (talk) (random) 13:56, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Hm, I have to revise that. Since the 9/11 Commission Report states he was a part of the Hamburg cell, I'm adding references to him back in. Still, since he can't be confirmed to have met with the others (outside of a single wedding video), I have put his information in a separate section. – Quadell (talk) (random) 19:07, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Ziad Jarrah was a member of the Hamburg cell. I've done some research on this topic, and as far as I know, he was a member of the Cell. AdjustShift (talk) 03:23, 1 September 2008 (UTC)

wording
A previous version of this article refered to "future-terrorists Mohammed Atta, Marwan al-Shehhi, and Ramzi Binalshibh". WhisperToMe, presumable objecting to the POV of calling them terrorists, changed it to "future-Islamic militants". But this has problems as well. First off, it looks like the article says they were militants who were soon to be Islamic, which isn't what you mean. But secondly, some of them already were Islamic militants. So should we say "future-hijackers"? – Quadell (talk) (help)  01:26, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)

That'll do. :) WhisperToMe 02:12, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

i wouldnt agree with future hijackers as ramzi binalshibh did not hijack anything. Future terrorists would be more apt, or something different altogether, maybe a total sentance rewrite. KarlJohannes 20:00, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

No footnotes
Tag added—readers are unable to verify from where information came, which should be made clear, especially for controversial topics such as this one. momo ricks  04:40, 19 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Absolutely. Not a single citation in this whole article. I use Wikipedia to get an overview of a topic and to find sources to read. I'm disappointed. Dcs002 (talk) 07:43, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

Alteration of Background Section in Relation to Mohamedou Ould Slahi aka Abu Musab
Through the Wikipedia page, List of Guantanamo Bay detainees, I was led to this entry. I suggest that the Background section of this entry be re-written to reflect the factual and documented involvement of Mohamedou Ould Slahi with the Hamburg cell members. While Slahi did provide lodging for one night to the members of the Hamburg Cell, excluding Atta, he was not a member of al-Qaeda at the time and was not involved with 9-11. . In short, I would like to update the background section to cite his actual participation with the Hamburg Cell, which is, essentially none.InterestedCanadian (talk) 17:18, 10 September 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hamburg cell


text:
File:Thrill kill cover.jpg

Thrill Kill cover

title: File:Thrill kill cover.jpg


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Talk:Buddy MacMaster

Untitled
I removed the information about Ashley MacIsaac from this article because it belongs in an article about Ashley, not Buddy. --McMullen 01:28, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Buddy MacMaster


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Fifth Dynasty of Egypt

The Fifth Dynasty of ancient Egypt (notated Dynasty V) is often combined with Dynasties III, IV and VI under the group title the Old Kingdom. The Fifth Dynasty pharaohs reigned for approximately 150 years, from the early 25th century BC until the mid 24th century BC.

Chronology
The Fifth Dynasty of Egypt is a group of nine kings ruling Egypt for approximately 150 years in the 25th and 24th centuries BC. The relative succession of kings is not entirely secured as there are contradictions between historical sources and archaeological evidence regarding the reign of the shadowy Shepseskare.

Rulers
Known rulers in the Fifth Dynasty are listed below. Manetho assigns 248 years of rule to the Fifth Dynasty; however, the pharaohs of this dynasty more probably ruled for approximately 150 years. This estimate varies by both scholar and source. The Horus names and most names of the queens are taken from Dodson and Hilton.

Manetho writes that the Dynasty V kings ruled from Elephantine, but archeologists have found evidence clearly showing that their palaces were still located at Ineb-hedj ("White Walls").

As before, expeditions were sent to Wadi Maghareh and Wadi Kharit in the Sinai to mine for turquoise and copper, and to quarries northwest of Abu Simbel for gneiss. Trade expeditions were sent south to Punt to obtain malachite, myrrh, and electrum, and archeological finds at Byblos attest to diplomatic expeditions sent to that Phoenician city. Finds bearing the names of several Dynasty V kings at the site of Dorak, near the Sea of Marmara, may be evidence of trade but remain a mystery.

Userkaf
How Pharaoh Userkaf founded this dynasty is not known for certain. The Westcar Papyrus, which was written during the Middle Kingdom, tells a story of how king Khufu of Dynasty IV was given a prophecy that triplets born to the wife of the priest of Ra in Sakhbu would overthrow him and his heirs, and how he attempted to put these children – named Userkaf, Sahure, and Neferirkare – to death; however in recent years, scholars have recognized this story to be at best a legend and admit their ignorance over how the transition from one dynasty to another transpired.

During this dynasty, Egyptian religion made several important changes. The earliest known copies of funerary prayers inscribed on royal tombs (known as the Pyramid Texts) appear. The cult of the god Ra gains added importance, and kings from Userkaf through Menkauhor Kaiu built temples dedicated to Ra at or near Abusir. Then late in this dynasty, the cult of the deity Osiris assumes importance, most notably in the inscriptions found in the tomb of Unas.

Djedkare Isesi
Amongst non-royal Egyptians of this time, Ptahhotep, vizier to Djedkare Isesi, won fame for his wisdom; The Maxims of Ptahhotep was ascribed to him by its later copyists. Non-royal tombs were also decorated with inscriptions, like the royal ones, but instead of prayers or incantations, biographies of the deceased were written on the walls.

title: Fifth Dynasty of Egypt