text:
Wikipedia:Collaboration of the week/Removed/2004/Archive 7

This page contains nominations from the main collaboration of the week page which have been removed due to lack of votes or because they're unsuitable nominations from October 4 to October 15, 2004.

Al Jarreau (3 votes in 1 week)

 * Nominated September 27; needs 5 votes by October 4 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Maurreen 15:34, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) PlasmaDragon 18:36, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) PedanticallySpeaking 15:30, Oct 2, 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Is he well-known in the US or Canada? Can't say I've ever heard of him. Warofdreams 19:14, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * He's American - from Wisconsin. I'd bet money that his work has touched your life in some way without your knowledge. Davodd 21:08, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * However I feel that the fact that I had to open the article to find out who this person was (and am still none the wiser) shows that it's not necessarily a good collaboration candidate. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 00:06, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. - D AVODD  [[User_talk:Davodd|« TALK »]] 23:42, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)

Havana (13 votes in 3 weeks)

 * Nominated September 14; needs 15 votes by October 5 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support Comments:
 * 1) [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (talk)]] 14:43, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Conti|✉ 15:06, Sep 14, 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) J OHN C OLLISON | (Ludraman) 16:40, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) Jwrosenzweig 23:01, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) Burgundavia 08:54, Sep 18, 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) Graham  ☺ | Talk 15:50, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) Davodd 23:18, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
 * 8) Jonik 12:18, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 9) Filiocht 15:10, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 10) Thepedestrian 19:04, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
 * 11)  The bellman 12:17, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 12) Maurreen 23:30, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 13) ZayZayEM 08:21, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Could be quite interesting, I feel. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 15:50, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Lots of history, culture and controversy yet to be mentioned. Davodd 23:18, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. --Conti|✉ 16:18, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)

Afro (9 votes in 2 weeks)

 * Nominated September 20; needs 10 votes by October 5 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support: Comments:
 * 1) Pyrop 00:08, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) PlasmaDragon 18:17, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Ambi 08:31, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) Aramgutang 02:52, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) Dragan 11:05, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) The bellman 05:04, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue (talk)]] 21:23, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 8) Maurreen 23:32, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 9) ZayZayEM 08:21, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * One of the most culturally significant hairstyles, which has a history behind it tightly tied to the American Civil Rights Movement. Besides, this would be fun to work on. Pyrop 00:08, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)

Reason:
 * Lack of votes. --Conti|✉ 16:18, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)

Loving (TV series) (3 votes in 1 week)

 * Nominated September 28; needs 5 votes by October 5 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Mike H 12:23, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) PedanticallySpeaking 15:30, Oct 2, 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Revth 01:44, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * The soap opera aired for twelve years and the current incarnation of this article has three sentences: one with the start and end dates, one with the creators' names, and the last one with a VERY BRIEF plot synopsis (i.e. who the main family was). When we have in-depth articles on All My Children and Another World (TV series), we need SOMETHING more on Loving.

Reason:
 * Lack of votes. --Conti|✉ 16:18, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)

Tidal power (11 votes in 3 weeks)

 * Nominated September 14; needs 15 votes by October 5 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) J OHN C OLLISON  | (Ludraman) 17:22, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) PlasmaDragon 18:02, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) ALoan (Talk) 14:45, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) Conti|✉ 16:33, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) TPK 19:26, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC) Talk
 * 6) pir 16:31, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) Burgundavia 08:54, Sep 18, 2004 (UTC)
 * 8) Jpittman 00:25, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 9) Fpahl 10:00, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 10) Confuzion 11:40, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 11) Maurreen 23:28, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Whoa! We need waaaaaay more. J OHN C OLLISON | (Ludraman) 17:22, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- ALoan (Talk) 18:10, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Iguanodon (16 votes in 4 weeks)
(Originally nominated as the redirect Iguanadon)

 * Nominated September 8; needs 20 votes by October 6 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support
 * 1) Graham  ☺ | Talk 15:12, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Theresa Knott  (Nate the Stork) 13:31, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) pie4all88 22:50, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) Davodd 01:00, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) Matthewmayer 16:54, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) Jwrosenzweig 00:25, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC) I'd forgotten about this one since childhood, but well worthy of an article, as I recall.
 * 7) Austin Hair 00:29, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)  The first, the coolest.
 * 8) J3ff 07:28, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 9) ALoan (Talk) 14:45, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 10) A bit different to the topics we've had recently. Warofdreams 11:45, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 11) Burgundavia 08:58, Sep 18, 2004 (UTC)
 * 12) Aramgutang 02:52, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 13) gadfium 23:11, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 14) The bellman 05:01, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 15) Sayeth 15:15, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * 16) ZayZayEM 08:19, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments
 * Currently a redirect to Dinosaur I'm sure something can be said for this plucky little creature that is worthy of an article. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 15:12, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * This would be a pretty cool project to work on as a community. --pie4all88 22:50, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Blimey - a redirect? The iguanadon is fascinating - one of the first dinosaurs to be described properly (Gideon Mantell, 1824); poorly reconstructed for many years ("the spike goes where?"); central to the story of Mantell and Richard Owen - just read Bill Bryson's A Short History of Nearly Everything. --- ALoan (Talk) 14:45, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Now redirected to Iguanodon Susvolans 11:51, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * It's good to see an article does exist, but it is still a stub and would benefit from being CotW. Warofdreams 12:08, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Agreed -- Graham ☺ | Talk 12:23, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- D AVODD  [[User_talk:Davodd|« TALK »]] 06:26, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

Revolving door (6 votes in 2 weeks)

 * Nominated September 22; needs 10 votes by October 6 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Litefantastic 23:54, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) PlasmaDragon 18:09, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 11:09, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) Theresa Knott (The torn steak) 15:56, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) supportGeni 21:09, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) Revth 02:17, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * I started this when I was shocked surprised mildly interested to find that we did not already have an article on it. The picture and the bulk (such as it is) of the text are mine. -Litefantastic 23:54, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * There really should be an aticle on this. I'd be especially interested to find out who invented the thing and how they came by the idea. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 11:09, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- D AVODD  [[User_talk:Davodd|« TALK »]] 06:26, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

Cat breed (4 votes in 1 week)

 * Nominated September 29; needs 5 votes by October 6 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support: Comments:
 * 1) Norm 20:56, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue (talk)]] 21:10, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Davodd 23:23, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) Maurreen 23:47, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Only a paragraph, and many of the articles on the linked List of cat breeds are stubs/red links. Cats need more than this. Norm 20:56, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Sounds like something alot of people could contribute to.

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- D AVODD  [[User_talk:Davodd|« TALK »]] 06:26, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

Culture of Finland (not a stub)

 * Nominated October 8; needs 5 votes by October 15 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Shorne 01:31, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Far from adequate.
 * Not a stub, should be removed. D AVODD  [[User_talk:Davodd|« TALK »]] 06:21, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Not a stub. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 23:27, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Culture of France (not a stub)

 * Nominated October 8; needs 5 votes by October 15 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Shorne 02:26, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Just a shell of an article. Sorely needs to be fleshed out. Shorne 02:26, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Not a stub. D AVODD  [[User_talk:Davodd|« TALK »]] 06:27, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * Is there a limit to how many CotWs someone can nominate?

Reason for removal:
 * Not a stub. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 23:27, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

MOBO Awards (1 vote in 1 week)

 * Nominated October 1; needs 5 votes by October 8 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Dmn / [[User talk:Dmn|Դմն ]] 22:59, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Nominations for this year's awards caused plenty of controversy, but there isn't a single mention of MOBO in the wikipedia.Dmn / [[User talk:Dmn|Դմն ]] 22:59, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * What is it? Maurreen 22:54, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * It's an awards show in the UK for "Music of Black Origin". It's noteworthy in the UK, but I doubt anybody in most of the world has heard of it.

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. --Conti|✉ 17:46, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)

Signature (19 votes in 4 weeks)

 * Nominated September 11; needs 20 votes by October 9 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) J OHN C OLLISON  | (Ludraman) 08:21, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Graham  ☺ | Talk 12:45, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) PlasmaDragon 15:31, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) • Benc • 19:00, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) Conti|✉ 19:04, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) Factitious 21:32, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) Here's mine: TPK 19:02, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC) Talk
 * 8) [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 21:37, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 9) PedanticallySpeaking 15:49, Sep 13, 2004 (UTC)
 * 10) Donar Reiskoffer 06:47, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 11) Jwrosenzweig 23:04, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 12) Jpittman 00:19, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 13) Jleedev 02:44, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
 * 14) JamesTeterenko 19:42, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 15) jengod 01:48, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
 * 16) gadfium 22:45, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 17) Maurreen 23:26, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 18) D AVODD  [[User_talk:Davodd|« TALK »]] 02:03, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * 19) ZayZayEM 08:21, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * There's a lot more to say. J OHN C OLLISON | (Ludraman) 08:21, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * This should be a fun one to collaborate on. Forgeries and forensic science; who can ask for more? • Benc • 19:00, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * It would be great to include a picture John Hancock's signature, too. —Jleedev 02:44, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. --Conti|✉ 17:46, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)

International Obfuscated C Code Contest (4 votes in 1 week)

 * Nominated October 2; needs 5 votes by October 9 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support
 * 1) Ta bu shi da yu 13:22, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Cyopardi 23:20, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Shorne 03:52, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) Gadykozma 16:13, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments
 * Fascinating code comes out of this contest. I especially like the ones that reproduce other programs. - Ta bu shi da yu 13:22, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Not from a topic category we need more coverage of. ✏ Sverdrup 15:50, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. --Conti|✉ 17:46, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)

Military history of Korea (7 votes in 2 weeks)

 * Nominated September 27; needs 10 votes by October 10 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (talk)]] 15:58, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) ugen64 03:42, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Filiocht 12:28, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) [[User:Eequor|η [[Image:Venus symbol (blue).gif|♀]] [ υωρ ]]] 22:52, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) Maurreen 23:44, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) RJH 20:46, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) GuloGuloGulo 02:21, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. --Conti|✉ 17:46, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)

Music production (3 votes in 1 week)

 * Nominated October 3; needs 5 votes by October 10 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Tom- 17:12, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) ZayZayEM 08:23, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Shorne 22:01, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Unless I'm really missing something, I can't find an article about how music is produced. Tom- 17:12, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * We have sound recording, record producer, audio engineering, and recording studio. The first is probably the best article related to this, but we may want to hve an article about music production as a process in particular.  —siro χ o  23:04, Oct 3, 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. --Conti|✉ 17:46, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)

Junk mail (21 votes in 5 weeks)

 * Nominated September 5; needs 25 votes by October 10 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support
 * 1) Davodd 19:13, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Graham  ☺ | Talk 20:05, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 22:34, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 04:04, 2004 Sep 6 (UTC)
 * 5) PFHLai 10:27, 2004 Sep 6 (UTC)
 * 6) Norm 11:53, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) TPK 12:11, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 8) Mpolo 13:49, Sep 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * 9) Farside 17:40, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 10) pie4all88 00:21, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 11) PedanticallySpeaking 20:02, Sep 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * 12) Key45 08:10, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 13) Theresa Knott  (Nate the Stork) 13:31, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 14) MikeX 02:47, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * 15) ZZ 23:32, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 16) J3ff 07:30, 13 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 17) sabre23t 23:37, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 18) Burgundavia 09:00, Sep 18, 2004 (UTC)
 * 19) Felix Wan 09:50, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 20) Shimmin 17:53, Sep 25, 2004 (UTC)
 * 21) pir 23:04, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Can you believe this has no entry here? Davodd 19:13, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Spam (e-mail)? -- Ævar Arnfjörð [ Bjarmason]   20:14, 2004 Sep 5 (UTC)
 * Spam is a subset of junk mail. Davodd 21:49, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * Or did you perhaps mean mail in this real universe some people speak of also known as the metaworld ? -- Ævar Arnfjörð [ Bjarmason]   20:16, 2004 Sep 5 (UTC)
 * I think the subject is more encompassing than just spam, and should include the rubbish that gets put through your letterbox in the real world... -- Graham ☺ | Talk 20:32, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * This would be bulk mail advertising - snail mail, electronic mail or otherwise. FYI: "Junk mail" has 1.06 million Google hits. Davodd 21:44, Sep 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * Our articles on "real-world", everyday topics always seem to get good responses. I'd love to see this on the main page. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 04:04, 2004 Sep 6 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. --Conti|✉ 22:13, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)

Penectomy (3 votes in 1 week)

 * Nominated October 3; needs 5 votes by October 10 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Mmm Mmm 23:54, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) pie4all88 00:45, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Shorne 03:27, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * I thought I had nominated this, but couldn't find it in the removed section: Collaboration of the week/Removed. Well anyway, it's a common surgical procedure for penile cancer victims, and other groups of people that only has a few sentences. Mmm Mmm
 * Hey weirdo, Did it ever occur to you that it was removed because it was unsuitable?  You're an idiot.  The only people that would ever want to research on that are sex perverts. TrollQueen 00:04, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * That was uncalled for, TrollQueen...and you have an equally uncalled for User page. --pie4all88 00:45, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Whatever. :-P TrollQueen 06:39, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * The previous nomination was deleted here (there was a comment on the previous nomination that is worth mentioning again: Mmm Mmm also nominated John Wayne Bobbitt). The previous nomination of penectomy should be in /Removed/Archive 6 but I can't see it there either (indeed, checking for penectomy, I see that the pruning of Yaser Esam Hamdi at about the same time has gone missing too).  There is some dicussion of the pruning of penectomy in the COTW talk page.  FWIW, I can see no reason why penectomy this should not be a COTW candidate (although I doubt that many people would have much to add to the article). -- ALoan (Talk) 18:03, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep the nomination since it meets listing criteria. Easier to let it take its ride to the removed page like most other nominations than to justify discriminating against the topic. No harm done waiting a few more days. D AVODD  [[User_talk:Davodd|« TALK »]] 23:35, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)
 * I for one am curious to know more about this subject. For example, what is done to allow urination? Shorne 05:25, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. --Conti|✉ 15:30, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)

History of the Mediterranean (4 votes in 1 week)

 * Nominated October 5; needs 5 votes by October 12 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1)  —siro χ o  05:03, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Shorne 04:00, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) J3ff 23:36, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) Conti|✉ 17:54, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * This is a sadly lacking article for such an important region. —siro χ o
 * History of the Mediterranean Sea, or of the cultures around it? FWIW, I think this could sensibly be merged with Mediterranean Sea. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:19, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * The title should be as proposed, for consistency with the numerous other articles of this sort. Shorne 04:00, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. Warofdreams 12:35, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Mediaeval Britain (27 votes in 7 weeks)

 * Nominated August 25; needs 28 votes by October 13 (minimum 4 votes per week)

Support
 * 1) SimonP 20:15, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) PlasmaDragon 23:20, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) [[User:OldakQuill|Oldak Quill]] 23:55, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) ALoan (Talk) 13:41, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) SaintNuclear 00:02, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) • Benc • 12:19, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) zoney ▓█▒ talk 18:09, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 8) GRutter 19:13, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 9) RJH 22:54, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 10) Dmn / [[User talk:Dmn|Դմն ]] 03:16, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 11) Tothebarricades.tk 21:15, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 12) Graham ☺ | Talk 14:15, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 13) Jwrosenzweig 20:15, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC) (It was next in line for a pet project for me, but it will be a much better article if everyone contributes -- I do like writing articles from scratch, though. Well, I'll just take on one of the 4,930,391,012 other articles that still need to be written...)
 * 14) James F. (talk) 00:47, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 15) Warofdreams 18:13, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 16) [[User:Bodnotbod| bodnotbod  »  .....TALK Q uietly  )  ]] 01:26, Sep 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * 17) Peregrine981 23:34, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)
 * 18) Average Earthman 10:25, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 19) adamsan  19:37, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 20) Maurreen 15:16, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 21) ScottyBoy900Q ∞ 18:23, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 22) Sc147 00:31, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 23) [[User:Eequor|η [[Image:Venus symbol (blue).gif|♀]] [ υωρ ]]] 22:54, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 24) Sjc 10:59, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 25) Jpittman 19:07, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 26) NeoJustin 00:29, Oct 12, 2004
 * 27) Shorne 09:27, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * We have a good articles on Ancient Britain and Roman Britain and a decent modern history at History of the United Kingdom, but nothing in the middle. - SimonP 20:15, Aug 25, 2004 (UTC)
 * Shouldn't the article be at Mediaeval Britain? Warofdreams 15:41, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes. Good point. • Benc • 12:19, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Change made. zoney ▓█▒ talk 18:09, 3 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Umm. Shouldn't this actually be at Mediæval Britain? James F. (talk) 00:45, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * For those of you interested in this article, I'd like to point out that we have a woefully incomplete article on the English Renaissance which would love some attention too. Jwrosenzweig 20:16, 6 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:05, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Art history (11 votes in 3 weeks)

 * Nominated September 22; needs 15 votes by October 13 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Isomorphic 23:24, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) PlasmaDragon 18:08, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) ScottyBoy900Q ∞ 18:26, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) Fuelbottle | Talk 23:22, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) Maurreen 12:20, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) Davodd 19:25, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) [[User:Eequor|η [[Image:Venus symbol (blue).gif|♀]] [ υωρ ]]] 22:52, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 8) func(talk) 03:11, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 9) pir 23:03, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 10) RJH 20:39, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 11) Shorne 03:49, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Just a list of topics for a major field of study. There really ought to be an article here, on what art history is and how it's studied. Let's fill this gap in Wikipedia's humanities coverage. Isomorphic 23:24, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Just clarifying this is the academic field, not History of art, which should be expanded beyond its redirectedness.Davodd 19:25, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:05, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Wedding planner (5 votes in 2 weeks)

 * Nominated September 29; needs 10 votes by October 13 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 21:20, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue (talk)]] 21:24, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Theresa Knott  (The torn steak) 21:38, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) J3ff 17:13, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) Maurreen 23:48, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Such a common profession, and obsolutely no info in Wikipedia? [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 21:20, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:05, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Time bomb (explosive) (3 votes in 1 week)

 * Nominated October 6; needs 5 votes by October 13 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) D AVODD  [[User_talk:Davodd|« TALK »]] 00:38, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 02:21, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Fastfission 01:44, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Tick tick tick... Cornerstone of pulp thrillers and real-life terror plots.(no article at time of nomination). D AVODD  [[User_talk:Davodd|« TALK »]] 00:38, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:05, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

U.S. Air Force Office of Special Investigations (2 votes in 1 week)

 * Nominated October 6; needs 5 votes by October 13 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Seancp 13:25, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Pyramide 17:52 11 Oct 2004 (CET)

Comments:
 * There really should be some information about this very important but relatively unknown (outside of the U.S. Air Force) organization.

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:05, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Transatlantic slave trade (4 votes in 1 week)

 * Nominated October 6; needs 5 votes by October 13 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) jengod 23:11, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) PlasmaDragon 15:57, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Conti|✉ 17:54, Oct 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) Fastfission 01:47, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * The slavery article is not abysmal, and both triangular trade and Middle Passage exist, but still...
 * Important. Shorne 04:02, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I just discovered that we actually already have a more sizeable article at the unintuitively named Slave trade (Americas). - SimonP 04:10, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * Should these two articles just be merged then? If so, under what title? GuloGuloGulo 08:45, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * Merge and wp:cleanup - not a COTW. violet/riga (t) 14:15, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Withdrawing my vote, since this is now a dead issue. Shorne 09:23, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- ALoan (Talk) 12:05, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Junior Eurovision Song Contest 2004 (2 votes in 1 week)

 * Nominated October 7; needs 5 votes by October 14 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 15:34, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Dmn / [[User talk:Dmn|Դմն ]] 15:49, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * With the final of the second Junior Eurovision Contest coming closer (November 20), expanding this article would be a perfect way to draw some more people to wikipedia. The article is horribly stubby. It's also an article a lot of people can work on. Europeans can write about their country's candidate, Scandinavians can write about its history before it became European and others can link to similar shows in their country and give some critical points.

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:10, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Eye, Human eye (17 votes in 4 weeks)

 * Nominated September 17; needs 20 votes by October 15 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Eloquence* 10:25, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Support [[User:Sverdrup|❝Sverdrup❞ ]] 14:18, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Support both. Filiocht 14:24, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 18:53, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) Farside 20:49, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) Lexor|Talk 13:35, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) T.P.K. 08:32, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 8) Sayeth 22:57, Sep 21, 2004 (UTC), if I have to choose one, I'd say go for just "eye"
 * 9) Fpahl 09:57, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 10) Pcarbonn 19:01, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 11) Fuelbottle | Talk 21:39, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 12) Maurreen 15:21, 24 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 13) Mpolo 16:50, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
 * 14) Straal 11:33, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 15) gadfium 22:46, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 16) Both ZayZayEM 08:20, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 17) Both. Shorne 03:46, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Like many of our articles on anatomy, this one is quite poor (and doesn't distinguish human and animal anatomy). This should be developed into a good overview article that summarizes the different sub-articles, particularly the presently non-existent human eye.--Eloquence*
 * Eye needs a section on evolution of the eye at the very least. Filiocht 14:24, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I second that. Fpahl 09:57, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Only one of these should be nominated, or both separately. People voting one or another (yes, including me..) brings too many problems. --Farside 20:49, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I thought the point of calling it "collaboration of the week" was that we don't limit ourselves to one article. I'd say we can state clearly that it can only be voted for as a package.--Eloquence*
 * "Each week a Collaboration of the Week will be picked using this page. This is a specific topic which either has no article or a basic stub page" Tom- 16:50, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Just look at "what links here" on the Eye page and you'll see (no pun intended) why we need to expand this one. I think a good compromise would be that we nominate Eye and have a subsection on the human eye directing people to the (non-existant) main article "Human eye". That way, someone will probably expand human eye as well. Sayeth 23:06, Sep 21, 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:10, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Culture of Hungary (2 votes in 1 week)

 * Nominated October 8; needs 5 votes by October 15 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Shorne 01:30, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Tuf-Kat 09:07, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Inadequate.
 * Previously nominated on 18 July, obtaining 8 votes over 3 weeks. -- ALoan (Talk) 10:49, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * note: music of Hungary exists Tuf-Kat 09:07, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:10, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Diet Pepsi (3 votes in 1 week)

 * Nominated October 8; needs 5 votes by October 15 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Litefantastic 02:41, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Lachatdelarue [[User talk:Lachatdelarue|(talk)]] 14:05, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Pyramide 18:41, 10 Oct 2004 (ECT)

Comments:
 * It's actually kind of amazing this doesn't already exist. -Litefantastic 02:41, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Page created User:Pyramide
 * Will need to look at Pepsi ONE, Diet Pepsi Vanilla etc. (I started by merging in Pepsi Max) --Henrygb 00:06, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. -- ALoan (Talk) 11:10, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Extinction (29 votes in 8 weeks)

 * Nominated August 20; needs 32 votes by October 15 (minimum 4 votes per week)

Support
 * 1) EastNile 16:47, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Farside 09:45, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) GRutter 13:35, 24 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) Lockeownzj00 19:22, 25 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) TPK 07:39, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) RJH 16:05, 26 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) Burgundavia 08:39, Aug 27, 2004 (UTC)
 * 8) [[User:OldakQuill|Oldak Quill]] 23:55, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * 9) ALoan (Talk) 13:41, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * 10) Maastrictian 19:50, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * 11) Davodd 17:14, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC)
 * 12) rhyax 10:07, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 13) Lexor|Talk 13:18, 5 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 14) Chessphoon 22:22, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 15) —Rory ☺ 13:51, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)
 * 16) Vanderesch 13:40, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 17) Walden 14:14, 2004 Sep 20 (UTC)
 * 18) --Viki 15:14, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 19) MGM 11:06, Sep 21, 2004 (UTC)
 * 20) Fpahl 09:09, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 21) ScottyBoy900Q ∞ 18:22, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 22) Aramgutang 02:52, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 23) Baryonyx 00:46, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
 * 24) Theresa Knott  (The torn steak) 10:04, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 25) func(talk) 10:42, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 26) Maurreen 23:14, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 27) ZayZayEM 08:19, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 28) Shorne 03:43, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 29) Sandos 17:51, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Pretty significant topic, with not a whole not. EastNile 16:47, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * We need more of these general topics to be well-written. Davodd 17:14, Sep 3, 2004 (UTC)
 * A lot of the information on Extinction event deals with the broader topic of Extinction... --pie4all88 00:21, 7 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * No need to merge the two... extinction event article needs more meat too, but it doesn't really deal with the many facets of extinction in a general sense- causes, effects on evolution, etc. #EastNile 19:33, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Extinction and Extinction event can be merged, with extinction being a primary topic. If there needs to be sub-topics on extinction events, then there should be individual ones for the mass extinctions (which there are), linked back into a combined article. They can also be left separate... it largely depends on how large and detailed people want the main article on extinction to get. If left separate, the article on ELEs should also make note of other important, but not one of the Big Five, extinctions. Baryonyx 00:46, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. Shorne 22:56, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Civil rights (24 votes in 5 weeks)

 * Nominated September 10; needs 25 votes by October 15 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (talk)]] 16:00, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) [[User:Bodnotbod| bodnotbod »  .....TALK Q uietly  )  ]] 16:12, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC) - (see also the even worse Civil rights history).
 * 3) PlasmaDragon 16:55, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 21:47, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * 5)  —siro χ o  22:03, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) Ambi 00:30, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) Conti|✉ 00:39, Sep 11, 2004 (UTC)
 * 8) TPK 16:29, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 9) • Benc • 19:02, 11 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 10) PFHLai 22:14, 2004 Sep 11 (UTC)
 * 11) Chopchopwhitey 09:35, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 12) Peregrine981 23:36, Sep 12, 2004 (UTC)
 * 13) KNewman 03:48, Sep 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * 14) ALoan (Talk) 14:45, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 15) Burgundavia 08:56, Sep 18, 2004 (UTC)
 * 16) Lexor|Talk 13:37, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 17) Maurreen 04:20, 21 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 18) Thepedestrian 19:03, Sep 28, 2004 (UTC)
 * 19) [[User:Eequor|η [[Image:Venus symbol (blue).gif|♀]] [ υωρ ]]] 22:52, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 20) func(talk) 03:15, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 21) Sarge Baldy 05:43, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
 * 22) Sean Curtin 02:13, Oct 2, 2004 (UTC)
 * 23) pir 23:05, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 24) Shorne 09:29, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * Quite stubby. Lacks any sort of philosophical discussion. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 21:47, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * This article is in a sad state —siro χ o  22:03, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * As distinguished from human rights which is less stubby but also rather short. -- ALoan (Talk) 14:45, 15 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. Shorne 22:56, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Working-class culture (6 votes in 2 weeks)

 * Nominated October 1; needs 10 votes by October 15 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Warofdreams 18:19, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) PlasmaDragon 21:22, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Sarge Baldy 02:21, Oct 2, 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) J OHN C OLLISON | (Ludraman) 20:22, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) pir 23:02, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) Arlechinio --Arlechinio 22:58, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * This is such a big topic, covering a whole range of cultures around the world in many cases distinct from national and regional cultures, and what if anything they have in common. A search on Google gives over 10,000 hits, so plenty for everyone to find, as well as examples from their own experiences. Warofdreams 18:19, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * It seems to broad to be meaningful. Maurreen 23:53, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I think we need to write a good article on the broad topic before considering narrower areas which it covers - these could always be spun off from a decent, broad article. Warofdreams 14:02, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Whose working class? I should imagine that this differs hugely between, say, the US and China. Far too broad a subject to work on meaningfully. Filiocht 12:23, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I'd have to see a stub before I would vote on this, useful though I think it could be. Shorne 03:30, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * This needs to be related to classification of Class, "Marxism", "The registra general's" classification, etc. How do we define working class culture, without defining who is working class?? --Arlechinio 22:58, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. Shorne 22:56, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Holodomor (6 votes in 2 weeks)

 * Nominated October 2; needs 10 votes by October 16 (minimum 5 votes per week)

Support:
 * 1) Xed 21:52, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) The bellman 10:55, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) GuloGuloGulo 20:59, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) D AVODD  [[User_talk:Davodd|« TALK »]] 23:37, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) jengod 04:39, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) Ravn 11:25, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Comments:
 * A disturbingly short article, considering the death toll of up to 10 million – (there's more information on Wikipedia about a Fictional plant)
 * Article currently entirely missing due to copyright.—Bsktcase 05:51, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * God, for a second there i thought you meant someone had copyrighted the Ukranian holocaust. Now there is a scary thought. The bellman 10:55, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * What is a holodomor? Maurreen 23:06, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * The Ukrainian holocaust. 10 million dead. The fact that you asked the question is perhaps indicative of this subjects need of collaborative work --Xed 23:57, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm ashamed to say I've never heard the term, although the sufferings of the Soviets under Stalin are probably familiar to many. jengod 04:42, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * The claim of "10 million dead" is nothing but propaganda. There is no reason to be ashamed of not having heard the term; it is propaganda itself. Shorne 15:25, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I don't want to split hairs, but I agree that the term "holocaust" is a bit loaded and does not apply well here. Something like "forced famine" is more revealing and accurate. I also think a more reasonable estimate of the number of deaths caused by this would be around 5 million. -GuloGuloGulo 09:25, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)

 * Before it was proven to be a work of plagiarism, I had been trying valiantly to add balance to a blatantly one-sided article. User Xed obstructed the effort at every turn, reverting entire batches of changes with no comment other than widely disseminated claims that I am a "holocaust denier". Shorne 15:25, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I'll support this, but I have almost no confidence that the user (Xed) who put it forward will coöperate. Again, he kept reverting everything that didn't match his opinion until finally the article was exposed as plagiarism (except for the parts that I wrote) and removed. Keep in mind when voting that this will not be easy to do in a fair way, what with the stubbornness of a small number of users. Shorne 03:57, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * From the looks of things on Holodomor's history page, this poor article has gone from a two-user POV revert war to a copyright violation to a Collectivisation in the USSR redirect. The redirect seems appropriate to me; in any case, I don't feel strongly enough (either way) about resurrecting Holodomor, so I'm withdrawing my vote. —Bsktcase 15:55, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Redirecting this article is like redirecting Holocaust to World War II -Xed 16:12, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm also withdrawing my vote. Collectivisation in the USSR is the appropriate place for this discussion. Shorne 16:41, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Reason for removal:
 * Lack of votes. Shorne 22:56, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)


text: Talk:Two Kinds of Laughter

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Two Kinds of Laughter


text: User talk:4.246.252.229

title: User talk:4.246.252.229


text:
Talk:Dragon Ball Z: Dead Zone

Untitled
Why would he wish to be immortal? After a while anyone would regret it. potatoeman57

Umm well if u want to go into character analysis then ill give you my perspective, he wished for immortality since most of his schemes involve putting his own life on the line and by being immortal he can do anything and get away with it. Also it should be noted he can wish to be mortal again by collecting the dragon balls again. 216.58.65.182 20:24, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

About the continuity... I know that the movies don't take place on the same timeline, however, I don't remember Goku ever calling Gohan his son around Kuririn in this movie. That being the case, it would make sense that Kuririn would still be shocked to learn that Goku has a son, since he could have thought Goku was watching over the child. A stretch, I know, just stating some things I remembered from the movie... --204.116.200.58 14:44, 16 March 2006 (UTC) Also Gokus old master makes a refernve to this movie

Bridge Entertainment
This dub was not made for the UK market. It's a continental European dub made in either the Netherlands of Norway (Hence the bad English). Also, Bridge deny ever touching Dragon Ball.--193.195.185.254 21:18, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

shop
the box set of dead zone the world strongest and the tree of might will be release in any video shop

Fair use rationale for Image:DBZ THE MOVIE NO. 1.jpg
Image:DBZ THE MOVIE NO. 1.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in Wikipedia articles constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.BetacommandBot 23:08, 2 June 2007 (UTC) ==Combine pages== I think this and all DBZ film pages need to be combined.Any one else?17:29, 25 December 2007 (UTC)Earthbendingmaster (talk)

Hell no! Piccolo The Demon King (talk) 18:55, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Dragon Ball Z: Dead Zone


text:
Conservative Revolution

The Conservative Revolution (Konservative Revolution), also known as the German neoconservative movement, or new nationalism, was a German national conservative movement prominent during the Weimar Republic and Austria, in the years 1918–1933 (between World War I and the Nazi seizure of power).

Conservative revolutionaries were involved in a cultural counter-revolution and showed a wide range of diverging positions concerning the nature of the institutions Germany had to instate, labelled by historian Roger Woods the "conservative dilemma". Nonetheless, they were generally opposed to traditional Wilhelmine Christian conservatism, egalitarianism, liberalism and parliamentarian democracy as well as the cultural spirit of the bourgeoisie and modernity. Plunged into what historian Fritz Stern has named a deep "cultural despair", uprooted as they felt within the rationalism and scientism of the modern world, theorists of the Conservative Revolution drew inspiration from various elements of the 19th century, including Friedrich Nietzsche's contempt for Christian ethics, democracy and egalitarianism; the anti-modern and anti-rationalist tendencies of German Romanticism; the vision of an organic and naturally-organized folk community cultivated by the Völkisch movement; the Prussian tradition of militaristic and authoritarian nationalism; and their own experience of comradeship and irrational violence on the front lines of World War I.

The Conservative Revolution held an ambiguous relationship with Nazism from the 1920s to the early 1930s, which has led scholars to describe it as a form of "German pre-fascism" or "non-Nazi fascism". Although they share common roots in 19th-century anti-Enlightenment ideologies, the disparate movement cannot be easily confused with Nazism. Conservative Revolutionaries were not necessarily racialist as the movement cannot be reduced to its Völkisch component. Although they participated in preparing the German society to the rule of the Nazi Party with their antidemocratic and organicist theories, and did not really oppose their rise to power, Conservative Revolutionary writings did not have a decisive influence on Nazism, and the movement was brought to heel like the rest of the society when Adolf Hitler seized power in 1933, culminating in the assassination of prominent thinker Edgar Jung by the Nazis during the Night of the Long Knives in the following year. Many of them eventually rejected the antisemitic or the totalitarian nature of the Nazi regime, with the notable exception of Carl Schmitt and some others.

From the 1960–1970s onwards, the Conservative Revolution has largely influenced the European New Right, in particular the French Nouvelle Droite and the German Neue Rechte, and through them the contemporary European Identitarian movement.

Name and definition
Although conservative essayists of the Weimar Republic like Arthur Moeller van den Bruck, Hugo von Hofmannsthal or Edgar Jung had already described their political project as a Konservative Revolution ("Conservative Revolution"), the name saw a revival after the 1949 doctoral thesis of Neue Rechte philosopher Armin Mohler on the movement. Molher's post-war ideological reconstruction of the "Conservative Revolution" has been widely criticized by scholars, but the validity of a redefined concept of "neo-conservative" or "new nationalist" movement active during the Weimar period (1918–1933), whose lifetime is sometimes extended to the years 1890s–1910s, and which differed in particular from the "old nationalism" of the 19th century, is now generally accepted in scholarship. The name "Conservative Revolution" has appeared as a paradox, sometimes as a "semantic absurdity", for many modern historians, and some of them have suggested "neo-conservative" as a more easily justifiable label for the movement. Sociologist Stefan Breuer wrote that he would have preferred the substitute "new nationalism" to name a charismatic and holistic cultural movement that differed from the "old nationalism" of the previous century, whose essential role was limited to the preservation of the German institutions and their influence in the world. Despite the apparent contradiction, however, the association of the terms "Conservative" and "Revolution" is justified in Moeller van den Bruck's writings by his definition of the movement as a will to preserve eternal values while favouring at the same time the redesign of ideal and institutional forms in response to the "insecurities of the modern world".

Historian Louis Dupeux, a specialist of the Conservative Revolution, saw the movement as an intellectual project with its own consistent logic, namely the striving for an Intellektueller Macht ("intellectual power"), if necessary via the use of modern technique and concepts, which would allow them to promote and gain wider support to conservative and revolutionary ideas directed against liberalism, egalitarianism, and traditional conservatism. This change of attitude, compared to 19th-century conservatism, is described as a Bejahung ("affirmation") by Dupeux: Conservative Revolutionaries said "yes" to their time as long as they could find the ways to facilitate the resurgence of anti-liberal and what they saw as "eternal values" within modern societies. Dupeux conceded at the same time that the Conservative Revolution was rather a counter-cultural movement than an actual philosophical proposition, relying more on non-rationalistic "feeling, images and myths" than on scientific analysis and concepts. He also admitted the necessity to distinguish several leanings, sometimes with contradictory views, within its diverse ideological spectrum.

"[Conservative Revolutionaries] are, admittedly, as reactionary in politics as their pre-war predecessors, but they stand out by their optimism — or at least by their voluntarism — in front of the modern world. They do not really fear the masses, nor the technique anymore. Yet this change of Haltung ('attitude') had significant consequences — the backward-looking regret is replaced by a juvenile energy — and led to a wide-ranging political and cultural initiative." Political scientist Tamir Bar-On has defined the Conservative Revolution as a combination of "German ultra-nationalism, defence of the organic folk community, technological modernity, and socialist revisionism, which perceived the worker and soldier as models for a reborn authoritarian state superseding the egalitarian "decadence" of liberalism, socialism, and traditional conservatism."

Origin and development
The Conservative Revolution is encompassed in a larger and older counter-movement to the French Revolution of 1789, influenced by the anti-modernity and anti-rationalism of early 19th-century romanticism, in the context of a German, especially Prussian, "tradition of militaristic, authoritarian nationalism which rejected liberalism, socialism, democracy and internationalism." Historian Fritz Stern described the movement as disoriented intellectuals plunged into a profound "cultural despair": they felt alienated and uprooted within a world dominated by what they saw as "bourgeois rationalism and science". Their hatred of modernity, Stern follows, led them to the naive confidence that all these modern evils could be fought and resolved by a "Conservative Revolution".

Although terms such as Konservative Kraft ("conservative power") and schöpferische Restauration ("creative restoration") began to spread across German-speaking Europe from the 1900s to the 1920s, the Konservative Revolution ("Conservative Revolution") became an established concept in the Weimar Republic (1918–1933) through the writings of essayists like Arthur Moeller van den Bruck, Hugo von Hofmannsthal, Hermann Rauschning, Edgar Jung and Oswald Spengler.

The creation of the Alldeutscher Verband ("Pan-German League") by Alfred Hugenberg in 1891 and the Jugendbewegung ("youth movement") in 1896 are cited as conducive to the emergence of the Conservative Revolution in the following decades. Moeller van den Bruck was the dominant figure of the movement until his suicide on 30 May 1925. His ideas were initially spread through the Juniklub he had founded on 28 June 1919, on the day of the signing of Treaty of Versailles.

Conservative Revolutionaries frequently referred to German philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche as their mentor and as the main intellectual influence on their movement. Despite Nietzsche's philosophy being often misinterpreted, or wrongly appropriated by thinkers of the Conservative Revolution, they retained his contempt for Christian ethics, democracy, modernity and egalitarianism as the cornerstone of their ideology. Historian Roger Woods writes that Conservative Revolutionaries "constructed", in response to the war and the unstable Weimar period, a Nietzsche "who advocated a self-justifying activism, unbridled self-assertion, war over peace, and the elevation of instinct over reason."

Many of the intellectuals involved in the movement were born in the last decades of the nineteenth century and experienced WWI as a formative event (Kriegserlebnis, "war experience") for the foundation of their political beliefs. The life on the front line, with its violence and irrationality, caused most of them to search a posteriori for a meaning to what they had to endure during the conflict. Ernst Jünger is the major figure of that branch of the Conservative Revolution which wanted to uphold military structures and values in peacetime society, and saw in the community of front line comradeship (Frontgemeinschaft) the true nature of German socialism.

Main thinkers
According to Armin Mohler and other sources, prominent members of the Conservative Revolution included:

Ideology
Despite a broad range of political positions that historian Roger Woods has labelled the "conservative dilemma", the German Conservative Revolution can be defined by its disapproval of:
 * the traditional conservative values of the German Empire (1871–1918), including the egalitarian ethics of Christianity; and a rejection of the project of a restoration of the defunct Wilhelmine empire within its historical political and cultural structures,
 * the political regime and commercialist culture of the Weimar Republic; and the parliamentary system and democracy in general, because the national community (Volksgemeinschaft) shall "transcend the conventional divisions of left and right",
 * the class analysis of socialism; with the defence of an anti-Marxist "socialist revisionism"; labelled by Oswald Spengler the "socialism of the blood", it drew inspiration from the front line comradeship of World War I.

New nationalism and morality
Conservative Revolutionaries argued that their nationalism was fundamentally different from the precedent forms of German nationalism or conservatism. They condemned the reactionary outlook of traditional Wilhelmine conservatives and their failure to fully understand the emerging concepts of the modern world, such as technology, the city and the proletariat.

Moeller van den Bruck defined the Conservative Revolution as the will to conserve a set of values seen as inseparable from a Volk ("people, ethnic group"). These eternal values were able to survive through the fluctuations of the ages because of innovations in their institutional and ideal forms. Distant from the pure reactionary who, in Moeller van den Bruck's eyes, does not create (and from the pure revolutionary who does nothing but destroys everything), the Conservative Revolutionary sought to give a form to phenomena in an eternal space, a shape that could guarantee their survival among the few things that cannot be lost: "Conserving is not receiving to hand down, but rather innovating the forms, institutional or ideal, which agree to remain rooted in a solid world of values in the face of continuous historical setbacks. In the face of modernity as an era of insecurity, opposing the securities of the past is no longer enough; instead it is necessary to redesign new safety by adopting and taking on the same risky conditions with which it is defined." Edgar Jung indeed dismissed the idea that true conservatives wanted to "stop the wheel of history". The chivalric way of life they were seeking to achieve was, according to Oswald Spengler, not governed by any moral code, but rather by "a noble, self-evident morality, based on that natural sense of tact which comes from good breeding". This morality was not the product of a conscious reflection, but rather "something innate which one senses and which has its own organic logic." Conservative revolutionaries saw the values of morality as instinctive and eternal, and as such embodied in rural life. The latter became challenged, Spengler believed, by the rise of the artificial world of the city, where theories and observations were needed to understand life itself, either coming from liberal democrats or scientific socialists. What Conservative Revolutionaries were aiming to achieve was the restoration, within the modern world, of what they saw as natural laws and values:

"We call Conservative Revolution the restoration of all those elementary laws and values, without which man loses his connection with Nature and with God and cannot establish a true order." Influenced by Nietzsche, most of them were opposed to the Christian ethics of solidarity and equality. Although many Conservative Revolutionaries described themselves as Protestant or Catholics, they saw Christian ethical premise as structurally indenturing the strong into mandatory, rather than optional, service to the weak. On a geopolitical scale, theorists of the movement adopted a vision of the world (Weltanschauung) where nations would abandon moral standards in their relationship to each others, only guided by their natural self-interest.

"Let thousands, nay millions, die; what meaning have these rivers of blood in comparison with a state, into which flow all the disquiet and longing of the German being!" Völkischen were involved in a racialist and occultist movement dating back to the middle of the 19th century and had an influence on the Conservative Revolution. Their priority was the fight against Christianity and the return to a (reconstructed) Germanic pagan faith, or the "Germanization" of Christianity to purge it from foreign (Semitic) influence.

Volksgemeinschaft and dictatorship
Thomas Mann believed that if German military resistance to the West during World War I was stronger than its spiritual resistance, it was primarily because the ethos ("character") of the German Volksgemeinschaft ("national community") cannot quickly express itself in words, and as a result is not able to counter effectively the solid rhetoric of the West. Since German culture was "of the soul, something which could not be grasped by the intellect", the authoritarian state was the natural order desired by the German people. Politics, Mann argued, was inevitably a commitment to democracy and therefore alien to the German spirit:

"There is no such thing as a democratic or a conservative politician. Either you are a politician or you are not, and if you are, you are a democrat." While scholars have debated whether these formulations should be considered artistic and idealistic, or rather a serious attempt to draw a political analysis of that period, young Mann's writings have been influential on many Conservative Revolutionaries. Mann was accused by the right of watering down his undemocratic views in 1922 after he removed some paragraphs from the republication of Betrachtungen eines Unpolitischen ("Reflections of a Nonpolitical Man"), originally released in 1918. In a speech delivered the same year ("On the German Republic" [Von deutscher Republik]), Mann publicly became a staunch defender of the Weimar Republic and attacked many of the figures associated with the Conservative Revolution such as Oswald Spengler, whom he depicted as intellectually dishonest and irresponsibly immoral. In 1933, he described National Socialism as the politische Wirklichkeit jener konservativen Revolution, that is to say the "political reality of that Conservative Revolution".

In 1921, Carl Schmitt published his essay Die Diktatur ("The Dictatorship"), in which he studied the foundations of the recently established Weimar Republic. Comparing what he saw as the effective and ineffective elements of the new constitution, he highlighted the office of the Reichspräsident as a valuable position, essentially due to the power granted to the president by the Article 48 to declare an Ausnahmezustand ("state of emergency"), which Schmitt implicitly praised as dictatorial.

"If the constitution of a state is democratic, then every exceptional negation of democratic principles, every exercise of state power independent of the approval of the majority, can be called dictatorship."

Schmitt further advanced in Politische Theologie (1922) that there cannot be any functioning legal order without a sovereign authority. He defined sovereignty as the possibility, or the power, to decide on the triggering of a "state of emergency", in other words a state of exception regarding the law: "There is some person or institution, in a given polity, capable of bringing about a total suspension of the law and then to use extra-legal force to normalize the situation, then that person or institution is the sovereign in that polity." According to him, every government should include within its constitution that dictatorial possibility to allow, when necessary, for faster and more effective decisions than going through parliamentary discussion and compromise. Referring to Adolf Hitler, he later used in 1934 the following formulation to justify the legitimacy of the Night of the Long Knives: Der Führer schützt das Recht ("The leader defends the law").

Front-line socialism
Conservative Revolutionaries asserted that they were not guided by the "sterile resentment of the class struggle". Many of them invoked the community of front line comradeship (Frontgemeinschaft) of World War I as the model for the national community (Volksgemeinschaft) to follow in peaceful times, hoping in that project to transcend the established political categories of right and left. For that purpose, they tried to remove the concept of revolution from November 1918 in order to attach it to August 1914. Conservative Revolutionaries indeed painted the November Revolution, which led to the foundation of the Weimar Republic, as a betrayal of the true revolution and, at best, hunger protests by the mob. The common agreement with socialists was the abolition of the excesses of capitalism. Jung claimed that, while the economy should remain in private hands, the "greed of capital" should at the same time be controlled, and that a community based on shared interests had to be set up between workers and employers. Another source of aversion for capitalism was rooted in the profits made from the war and inflation, and a last concern can be found in the fact that most of Conservative Revolutionaries belonged to the middle class, in which they felt crushed at the centre of an economic struggle between the ruling capitalists and the potentially dangerous masses.Although they dismissed communism as mere idealism, many of them showed their dependence on some Marxist terminology in their writings. For instance, Jung emphasized the "historical inevitability" of conservatism taking over from the liberal era, in a mirror-image of the historical materialism developed by Karl Marx. Spengler also wrote about the decline of the West as an ineluctable phenomenon, but his intention was to provide modern readers with a "new socialism" that would enable them to realize the meaninglessness of life, contrasting with Marx's idea of the coming of paradise on earth. Above all, the Conservative Revolution drew influences from vitalism (Lebensphilosophie) and irrationalism, not from materialism. Spengler argued that the materialist vision of Marx was based on nineteenth-century science, while the twentieth century would be the age of psychology. "We no longer believe in the power of reason over life. We feel that it is life which dominates reason."

Along with Karl Otto Paetel and Heinrich Laufenberg, Ernst Niekisch was one of the main advocates of National Bolshevism, a minor branch of the Conservative Revolution described as the "left-wing-people of the right" (Linke Leute von rechts).  They defended an ultra-nationalist form of socialism that took its roots in both Völkisch extremism and nihilistic Kulturpessimismus, rejecting any Western influence on German society: liberalism and democracy, capitalism and Marxism, the bourgeoisie and the proletariat, Christianity and humanism. Niekisch and National Bolsheviks were even ready to build a temporary alliance with German communists and the Soviet Union in order to annihilate the capitalist West.

Currents
In his PhD thesis supervised by Karl Jaspers, Armin Mohler distinguished five currents inside the nebula of the Conservative Revolution: the Jungkonservativen ("young conservatives"), the Nationalrevolutionäre ("national revolutionaries"), the Völkischen (from the "folkish movement"), the Bündischen ("leaguists") and the Landvolksbewegung ("rural people's movement"). According to Mohler, the last two groups were less theory- and more action-oriented, the Landvolks movement offering concrete resistance in the form of demonstrations and tax boycotts.

French historian Louis Dupeux saw five lines of divisions that can be drawn inside the Conservative Revolutionaries: the small farmers were different from the cultural pessimists and the "pseudo-moderns", who belonged for the most part to the middle class; while the proponent of an "organic" society diverged from those of an "organized" society. A third division split the supporters of deep and lengthy political and cultural transformations from those who endorsed a quick and erupting social revolution, as far as challenging economic freedom and private property. The fourth rift resided in the question of the Drang nach Osten ("drive to the East") and the attitude to adopt towards Bolshevik Russia, escorted by a debate on the place of Germany between a so-called "senile" West and "young and barbaric" Orient; the last division being a deep opposition between the Völkischen and the pre-fascist thinkers.

In 1995, historian Rolf Peter Sieferle described what he labelled five "complexes" in the Conservative Revolution: the "völkischen", the "national socialists", the "revolutionary nationalists" as such, the "vital-activists" (aktivistisch-vitalen), and, a minority in the movement, the "biological naturalists".

Building on the previous studies conducted by Mohler and Dupeux, French political scientist Stéphane François summarized the three main currents within the Conservative Revolution, this broad division being the most widely shared among analysts of the movement:
 * the "young conservatives" (Jungkonservativen);
 * the "national revolutionaries" (Nationalrevolutionäre);
 * the Völkischen (from the Völkisch movement).

Young conservatives
"Young conservatives" were deeply influenced by 19th-century intellectual and aesthetic movements such as German romanticism and Kulturpessimismus ("cultural pessimism"). Contrary to traditional Wilhelmine conservatives, Jungkonservativen aimed at assisting the re-emergence of "persistent and fundamental structures"—authority, the state, the community, the nation, the people—while "espousing their times" in the very same movement.

Moeller van den Bruck tried to overcome the Kulturpessimismus dilemma by fighting decadency to build a new political order over it. In 1923, he published the influential book Das Dritte Reich ("The Third Reich"), in which he went further from theoretical analysis to introduce a practical revolutionary programme as a remedy to the political situation: a "Third Reich" that would unite all classes under an authoritarian rule based on a combination of the nationalism of the right and the socialism of the left.

Rejecting both the nation-state narrowed to one unified people and the imperialistic structure based on different ethnic groups, the goal of Jungkonservativen was to fulfil the Volksmission ("mission of the Volk") through the edification of a new Reich, i.e. "the organization of all the peoples in a supra-state, dominated by a superior principle, under the supreme responsibility of only one people" in the words of Armin Mohler. As summarized by Edgar Jung in 1933: "The concept of the nation-state is the transfer of individualistic doctrines from the individuals to the individual state. [...] The super-state (the Reich) is a form of rule that rises above the Volkstum and can leave it untouched. But it shall not want to be total, and shall recognize autonomies (Autonomien) and sovereignties (Eigenständigkeiten)."

Although Moeller van der Bruck killed himself in despair in May 1925, his ideas continued to influence his contemporaries. Among them was Edgar Jung, who advocated the creation of a corporatist organic state, free from class struggle and parliamentary democracy, which would make way for a return to the spirit of the Middle Ages with a new Holy Roman Empire federating central Europe. The theme of a return to medieval values and aesthetics among "young conservatives" was inherited from a Romantic fascination for that period, which they believed to be simpler and more integrated than the modern world. Oswald Spengler praised medieval chivalry as the philosophical and moral attitude to adopt against a modern decadent spirit. Jung perceived this return as a gradual and lengthy transformation, similar to the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century, rather than a sudden revolutionary eruption like the French Revolution.

National revolutionaries
Other Conservative Revolutionaries rather drew influence from their life at the front line (Kriegserlebnis, "war experience") during the First World War. Far from the Kulturpessimismus concern of the "young conservatives", Ernst Jünger and the other "national revolutionaries" advocated total acceptance of modern technique and endorsed the use of any modern phenomena that could help them overcome modernity—such as propaganda or mass organizations—and eventually achieve a new political order. The latter would have been based on life itself rather than the intellect, founded on organic, naturally structured and hierarchical communities, and led by a new aristocracy of merit and action. Historian Jeffrey Herf used the term "reactionary modernism" to describe that "great enthusiasm for modern technology with a rejection of the Enlightenment and the values and institutions of liberal democracy". "That time is only worth destroying. But to destroy it, you have to know it first. [...] You had to completely submit yourself to the technique, by shaping it at last. [...] The apparatus itself deserved no admiration — that was the dangerous thing to do — it just had to be used."

Jünger supported the emergence of a young intellectual elite that would spring out from the trenches of WWI, ready to oppose bourgeois capitalism and to embody a new nationalist revolutionary spirit. In the 1920s, he wrote more than 130 articles in various nationalist magazines, mostly in Die Standarte or, less frequently, in Widerstand, the National-Bolshevik publication of Ernst Niekisch. However, as Dupeux pointed out, Jünger wanted to use nationalism as an "explosive" and not as an "absolute", to eventually let the new order arise by itself. The association of Jünger to the Conservative Revolutionaries is still a matter of debate among scholars.

The entry of Germany in the League of Nations in 1926 participated in radicalizing the revolutionary wing of the movement during the late 1920s. The event was seen as a "sign of a Western orientation" in a country Conservative Revolutionaries had conceived as the future Reich der europäischen Mitte ("Empire of Central Europe").

Völkischen
The adjective völkisch derives from the German concept of Volk (cognate with English folk), which has overtones of "nation", "race" and "tribe". The Völkisch movement emerged in the mid-19th century, influenced by German Romanticism. Erected on the concept of Blut und Boden ("blood and soil"), it was a racialist, populist, agrarian, romantic nationalist and, from the 1900s, an antisemitic movement. According to Armin Mohler, the Völkischen aimed at opposing the "process of desegregation" that was threatening the Volk by providing him means to generate a consciousness of itself.

Influenced by authors like Arthur de Gobineau (1816–1882), Georges Vacher de Lapouge (1854–1936), Houston Stewart Chamberlain (1855–1927), and Ludwig Woltmann (1871–1907), the Völkischen had conceptualised a racialist and hierarchical definition of human peoples where Aryans (or Germans) were set at the summit of the "white race". But while they used terms like Nordische Rasse ("Nordic race") and Germanentum ("Germanic peoples"), their concept of Volk could also be more flexible and understood as a Gemeinsame Sprache ("common language"), or as an Ausdruck einer Landschaftsseele ("expression of a landscape's soul") in the words of geographer Ewald Banse. The Völkischen indeed idealized the myth of an "original nation"–which they thought could still be found in German rural regions–organised as a form of "primitive democracy freely subjected to their natural elites." The notion of "people" (Volk) subsequently turned into the idea of a birth-giving and eternal entity among Völkischen—in the same way as they would have written on "the Nature"—rather than a sociological category.

The political agitation and uncertainty that followed WWI nourished a fertile background for the renewed success of various Völkisch sects that were abundant in Berlin at the time. The Völkischen became significant by the number of groups during the Weimar Republic, although they were not so by the number of adherents. Some Völkischen tried to revive what they believed to be a true German faith (Deutschglaube), by resurrecting the cult of ancient Germanic gods. Various occult movements such as Ariosophy were connected to Völkisch theories, and artistic circles were largely present among the Völkischen, such as the painters Ludwig Fahrenkrog (1867–1952) and Fidus (1868–1948). By May 1924, Wilhelm Stapel perceived the movement as capable of embracing and reconciling the whole nation: in his view, Vökischen had an idea to spread instead of a party programme, and they were led by "heroes" rather than "calculating politicians".

Mohler listed the following figures as belonging to the Völkisch movement: Theodor Fritsch, Otto Ammon, Willibald Hentschel, Guido von List, Erich Ludendorff, Jörg Lanz von Liebenfels, Herman Wirth, and Ernst Graf zu Reventlow.

Relationship to Nazism
Despite a significant intellectual legacy in common, the disparate movement cannot be easily conflated with Nazism. Their anti-democratic and militaristic thoughts certainly participated in making the idea of an authoritarian regime acceptable to the semi-educated middle-class, and even to the educated youth, but Conservative Revolutionary writings did not have a decisive influence on National Socialist ideology. Historian Helga Grebing indeed reminds that "the question of the susceptibility to and preparation for National Socialism is not the same as the question of the roots and ideological precursors of National Socialism". This ambiguous relationship has led scholars to characterize the movement as a form of "German pre-fascism" or "non-Nazi fascism".

During the rise of power of the Nazi party in the 1920s up until the early 1930s, some thinkers seem to have shown, as historian Roger Woods writes, "a blindness towards the true nature of the Nazis", while their unresolved political dilemma and failure to define the content of a new German regime led to the absence of widely supported alternative propositions from the right, and eventually to a lack of resistance to the Nazi seizure of power. According to historian Fritz Stern, "despite some misgivings about Hitler's demagogy, many conservative revolutionaries saw in the Führer the sole possibility of achieving their goal. In the sequel, Hitler's triumph shattered the illusions of most of Moeller's followers, and the twelve years of the Third Reich witnessed the separation of conservative revolution and national socialism again".

After a few months of adulation in the aftermath of their decisive electoral victory, the Nazis disavowed Moeller van den Bruck and denied that he had been a forerunner of National Socialism: his "unrealistic ideology", as they said in 1939, had "nothing to do with the actual historical developments or with sober Realpolitik" and Hitler "was not Moeller's heir". When taken individually, Conservative Revolutionaries often held ambivalent views of the Nazis, but many of them eventually rejected Nazism and the Nazi party after they seized power in 1933, either owing to its totalitarian or antisemitic character (the "opponents"), or because there would have preferred another form of authoritarian or totalitarian regime (the "competitors"). Stern summarized the relationship in those terms: "But, we must ask, could there have been any other 'Third Reich'? Can one abjure reason, glorify force, prophesy the age of the imperial dictator, can one condemn all existing institutions, without preparing the triumph of irresponsibility? The Germanic critics did all that, thereby demonstrating the terrible dangers of the politics of cultural despair."

Opponents
Many Conservative Revolutionaries, while keeping on opposing liberalism and still adhering to the notion of a "strong leader", rejected the totalitarian or the antisemitic nature of the Nazi regime. Martin Niemöller, initially a supporter of Adolf Hitler, opposed the Nazification of German Protestant churches in 1934, as well as the Nazis' Aryan Paragraph. Despite having made remarks about Jews that some scholars have called antisemitic, he was a leader of the anti-Nazi Confessing Church. "We preferred to keep silent. We are certainly not without guilt, and I ask myself again and again, what would have happened, if in the year 1933 or 1934 — there must have been a possibility — 14,000 Protestant pastors and all Protestant communities in Germany had defended the truth until their deaths? If we had said back then, it is not right when Hermann Göring simply puts 100,000 Communists in the concentration camps, in order to let them die." Rudolf Pechel and Fiedrich Hielscher openly opposed the Nazi regime, while Thomas Mann went into exile in 1939 and broadcast anti-Nazi speeches to the German people via the BBC during the war. Ernst Jünger refused a seat in the Reichstag for the Nazi party both in 1927 and in 1933, despised the "blood and soil" doctrine, and his house was raided several times by the Gestapo. Hermann Rauschning and Gottfried Reinhold Treviranus sought refuge abroad to keep on opposing the regime. Georg Quabbe refused to collaborate with the Nazis as a lawyer. Shortly before his death in 1936, Oswald Spengler prophesied that "in ten years, a German Reich [would] probably no longer exist" (Da ja wohl in zehn Jahren ein Deutsches Reich nicht mehr existieren wird!). In his private papers, he denounced Nazi anti-Semitism in strong terms: "How much envy of the capability of other people in view of one's lack of it lies hidden in anti-Semitism! [...] when one would rather destroy business and scholarship than see Jews in them, one is an ideologue, i.e., a danger for the nation. Idiotic."

Others such as Claus von Stauffenberg remained inside the Reichswehr and later in the Wehrmacht to silently conspire in the 20 July plot of 1944. Fritz Stern stated that it was "a tribute to the genuine spiritual quality of the conservative revolution that the reality of the Third Reich aroused many of them to opposition, sometimes silent, often open and costly. [...] In the final plot against Hitler, in July 1944, a few former conservative revolutionaries risked and lost their lives, martyr to the genuine idealism of their earlier cause."

Competitors
Some Conservative Revolutionaries did not reject the fascist nature of Nazi rule per se, but would have preferred an alternative authoritarian State. They were often murdered or imprisoned for their deviation from the Führerprinzip.

Edgar Jung, a leading figure of the Conservative Revolution, was murdered during the Night of the Long Knives by the SS of Heinrich Himmler, who wanted to prevent competitive nationalist ideas from opposing or deviating from Hitler's doctrine. For many Conservative Revolutionaries, this event ended the ambivalence between them and the Nazis. Jung promoted a collectivist version of the Conservative Revolution, speaking of nations as being singular organic entities, attacking individualism while praising militarism and war. He also supported "total mobilization" of human and industrial resources, while promoting the productive power of modernity, similar to the futurism espoused by Italian Fascism.

Ernst Niekisch, although anti-Jewish and in favour of a totalitarian state, rejected Adolf Hitler as he felt he lacked any real socialism, and instead found in Joseph Stalin his model for the Führer Principle. He was interned in a concentration camp from 1937 to 1945 for his criticism of the regime. August Winnig, initially welcoming the Nazis in 1933, opposed the Third Reich for his neo-pagan tendencies. Despite a best-selling essay published in 1937 defending fascism and strongly tainted by antisemitism, but that diverged from the official Nazi doctrine on race, he was left alone by the Nazis due to Winnig remaining mostly silent during the rule of Hitler.

Collaborators
Regarded as the "crown jurist of the Third Reich", Carl Schmitt remained unrepentant even after 1945 for his role in the creation of the Nazi state. Although he considered Adolf Hitler too vulgar, Schmitt was party to the burning of books by Jewish authors, rejoicing in the destruction of "un-German" and "anti-German" material, and calling for a much more extensive purge, to include works by authors influenced by Jewish ideas.

Hans Freyer was the head of the German Institute for Culture in Budapest from 1938 to 1944. Together with Nazi historian Walter Frank, Freyer established a racist and anti-semitic völkisch historiography during that period. Wilhelm Stapel joined the Deutschen Christen in July 1933, spoke vehemently against the anti-Nazi Confessing Church of Martin Niemöller and Karl Barth and advocated for the introduction of the Aryan paragraph in the Church. At the same time Stapel was committed to the policy of Reichsminister of Church Affairs (Reichskirchenminister) Hanns Kerrl, to whom he served as an advisor.  However, under pressure from the Nazi leadership in 1938, he had to stop the publication of his monthly magazine Deutsches Volkstum.

Study and debate
The precursor of academic studies of the Conservative Revolution was the French historian Edmond Vermeil, who published in 1938 an essay entitled Doctrinaires de la révolution allemande 1918–1938 ("Doctrinarians of the German revolution 1918–1938"). In the first decades that followed the end of WWII, most of the political theorists who studied the Conservative Revolution and became specialists of the subject were far-right thinkers deeply influenced by Conservative Revolutionary thinkers, such as Armin Mohler and Alain de Benoist. It was not until the 1980–1990s that academic research on the movement began to spread more globally across the political spectrum, mostly due to its controversial relationship with Nazism and later influence on the post-war European New Right.

Post-war revival after Armin Mohler
The contemporary concept of a "Conservative Revolution" was retrospectively reconstructed after WWII by Neue Richt philosopher Armin Mohler in his 1949 doctoral thesis Die Konservative Revolution in Deutschland 1918–1932, written under the supervision of Karl Jaspers. Mohler called Conservative Revolutionaries the "Trotskyites of the German Revolution", and his appropriation of the concept has been recurrently accused of being a biased attempt to reconstruct a pre-WWII far-right movement acceptable in a post-fascist Europe, by downplaying the influence some of these thinkers had on the rise of Nazism. Subtitled "a handbook", the study was conceived, in the words of historian Roger Griffin, "as a survivalist manual for those who do not wish to lose their spiritual bearings in the present age". Mohler believed that the project of the "Conservative Revolution" had only been postponed by the Nazi seizure of power. He was also at that time the secretary of Ernst Jünger, who had been a major figure of the movement.

During the 1970s, thinkers of the Conservative Revolution were influencing new radical right movements, including the French Nouvelle Droite, led by Alain de Benoist. Some academics, especially in West Germany, took a new interest in the subject and began to suspect Mohler's study for his political closeness to the concept. The reactionary and anti-modern characters of the "Conservative Revolution" were largely emphasised during that decade, and the movement was seen as nothing more than a fertile ground for Nazism, speaking "the same totalitarian languages".

German-American historian Fritz Stern used the term "Conservative Revolution" in his 1961 book The Politics of Cultural Despair to describe the life and ideas of Arthur Moeller van den Bruck, and rather drew attention to the alienation and "cultural despair" these authors experienced in the nascent modern world, which led them to express such radical ideas in response. Stern grouped, however, Moeller van den Bruck into a larger "Germanic ideology", along with earlier thinkers from the late 19th century like Paul de Lagarde and Julius Langbehn.

Academic research since the 1980s
In a 1981 symposium entitled "Conservative revolution and modernity", French historian Louis Dupeux pointed out that what Mohler had called the "Conservative Revolution" was in reality neither truly reactionary nor totally anti-modern (they could even show optimism towards the modern world), This analysis was supported three years later by American historian Jeffrey Herf in his book Reactionary Modernism, which highlighted the acceptance of modern technique beside a rejection of liberal democracy among conservative thinkers of that period. Dupeux also stressed that Conservative Revolutionaries were not only opposed to the "two forms of progressivism", namely liberalism and Marxism, but also to the "cultural pessimism" of the reactionary and conservative rights, a standoff they attempted to overcome by proposing a innovative forms of reactionary regimes that could espouse the new frameworks of the modern world.

In his 1993 book Anatomie der Konservativen Revolution ("Anatomy of the Conservative Revolution"), German sociologist Stefan Breuer rejected Mohler's definition of the term "Conservative Revolution", defining "conservatism" as the aspiration to conserve the structures of feudal Germany, in fact a political project already moribund during the Weimar period. The "Conservative Revolution" constructed by Mohler was, in his view, the mirror-image of an emerging modern society that took conscious of the deadlocks and dangers of a "simple modernity" built on science and technique only. While noting the complexity that would imply an intellectual classification of that period, Breuer stated that he would have preferred the substitute "new nationalism" to designate a more charismatic and holistic version of the German right-wing movements, contrasting with the "old nationalism" of the 19th century, a current which had essentially been aiming at preserving traditional institutions and German influence in the world.

In 1996, British historian Roger Woods recognized the validity of the concept, while stressing the eclectic character of the movement and their inability to form a common agenda, a political deadlock he labelled the "conservative dilemma". Woods described the Conservative Revolution as "ideas which cannot simply be explained and summarised as if they were a political programme, but rather as expressions of tension". Regarding the ambiguous relationship with Nazism, downplayed by Mohler in his 1949 thesis and accentuated by 1970s analysts, Woods argued that "regardless of individual Conservative Revolutionary criticisms of the Nazis, the deeper commitment to activism, strong leadership, hierarchy and a disregard for political programmes persists. [...] Unresolved political dilemmas result in an activism and an interest in hierarchy which mean that there can be no fundamental objection to the National Socialist assumption of power." Historian Ishay Landa has described the nature of the Conservative Revolution's "socialism" as decidedly capitalist. Landa points out that Oswald Spenger's "Prussian Socialism" strongly opposed labor strikes, trade unions, progressive taxation or any imposition of taxes on the rich, any shortening of the working day, as well as any form of government insurance for sickness, old age, accidents, or unemployment. At the same time as he rejected any social democratic provisions, Spengler celebrated private property, competition, imperialism, capital accumulation, and "wealth, collected in few hands and among the ruling classes". Landa describes Spengler's "Prussian Socialism" as "working a whole lot, for the absolute minimum, but — and this is a vital aspect — being happy about it." Landa likewise describes Arthur Moeller van den Bruck as a "socialist champion of capitalism" who praised free trade, flourishing markets, the creative value of the entrepreneur, and the capitalist division of labor, and sought to emulate British and French imperialism. Landa notes the similarities of Moeller's critiques of socialism with those of neoliberals such as Friedrich von Hayek and writes that "far from hostile to the bourgeois spirit, Moeller's text is suffused with such spirit."

Later influence
The movement influenced contemporary thinkers outside of German-speaking Europe. Among them, the Italian philosopher Julius Evola is often associated with the Conservative Revolution.

The Nouvelle Droite, a French far-right philosophical movement created in the 1960s to adapt traditionalist, ethnopluralist and illiberal politics to the European post-WWII context and to distance itself from earlier forms of far-right like fascism, mainly through a project of pan-European nationalism have been deeply influenced by the Conservative Revolution, as well as its German counterpart the Neue Rechte.

The ideology and theoretical structure of the Identitarian movement is mainly inspired by the Nouvelle Droite, the Neue Rechte, and through them by the Conservative Revolution.

title: Conservative Revolution


text:
Clif Evans

Clifford (Clif) Brian Evans (May 16, 1948 – May 6, 2022) was a Canadian politician. He represented the former Interlake electoral district in the Legislative Assembly of Manitoba from 1990 to 1999.

Before entering political life, Evans worked for ten years in the hotel business and twelve years in the oil and chemical plant industry. He was elected Mayor of Riverton, Manitoba in October 1989, and held the position until his election to the provincial legislature the following year.

Evans was elected as a New Democrat in the provincial election of 1990, defeating Progressive Conservative candidate Ed Trachuk in the mid-northern riding of Interlake by about 400 votes. The election was won by the Progressive Conservatives, and Evans sat in the Official Opposition.

The Progressive Conservatives again nominated Trachuk against Evans for the provincial election of 1995, but of greater long-term significance was the candidacy of Darryl Sutherland, from Independent Native Voice (a group which purported to represent aboriginal interests in the region). A government inquiry would subsequently establish that Sutherland's candidacy had been encouraged, financed and organized by leading figures in the riding's Progressive Conservative network, in the hopes that Sutherland would take enough votes away from the NDP to allow a PC victory (the aboriginal communities of northern Manitoba have generally supported the NDP, at least since the early 1970s).

As it happened, this attempted vote-splitting was unsuccessful and Evans was re-elected by a greater margin than before. Sutherland's 289 votes were not enough to make a difference in the outcome, and most of the riding's aboriginal voters supported Evans (who had, in fact, been publicly endorsed by the chiefs of the eight Interlake First Nations).

Evans had heard rumours about Sutherland's candidacy during the campaign (in fact, some suspicions were raised in the Winnipeg Free Press shortly before election day). He did not raise the issue himself during the campaign, although former NDP cabinet minister Bill Uruski and other figures within the party conducted some investigations on the matter.

In early 1998, Evans and fellow NDP MLA Tim Sale received information that leading PC organizer Taras Sokolyk had played a role in encouraging INV candidates in the previous election. According to Doug Smith's As Many Liars (a literary overview of the scandal), Evans was able to confirm this information through a discussion with Allan Aitken, a PC organizer in the region (who had previously been among Evans's personal friends). Under pressure from the NDP caucus and some elements of the media, Premier Gary Filmon called a public inquiry into the scandal, which found that Sutherland's candidacy had been encouraged by Progressive Conservative interests with the intention of causing vote-splitting.

Ironically, Evans's own career was damaged by the scandal inquiry. The PCs raised concerns about connections between Evans and Sale and the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, which had publicized the story in early 1998. The government also attempted to show inconsistencies in Evans's statements to the legislature on the subject (as to whether or not he believed there were "two Tory campaigns" in the riding). These allegations were not particularly serious, but the attacks on his credibility seem to have played a role in Evans's decision not to seek re-election in 1999. He has not re-entered public life since this time.

Evans supported Lorne Nystrom's bid to lead the federal New Democratic Party in 1995.

title: Clif Evans


text:
Antoine de Févin

Antoine de Févin (ca. 1470 – late 1511 or early 1512) was a Franco-Flemish composer of the Renaissance. He was active at the same time as Josquin des Prez, and shares many traits with his more famous contemporary.

Life
Févin was most likely born in Arras in Northern France, the son of an alderman. His brother Robert de Févin was also a composer. Most likely Antoine left Arras in the late 1480s, though there is no evidence that he went to Italy, the commonest destination for Franco-Flemish composers of the time. In the 1490s it is likely he became a priest (although there is no known documentation of that today), and he also may have obtained a master's degree at a university, since he is commonly known as maistre later in his life. By 1507, he was working as a singer and composer in the chapelle royale for Louis XII of France, who praised him highly. He died at Blois.

The Swiss music theorist and biographer Heinrich Glarean, writing in 1547, noted that Févin was a follower of Josquin, and that he died young; he also mentioned him as being a composer of Orleans, though this most likely referred to the association of that city with the court of Louis XII.

Works
All of Févin's surviving music is vocal. He wrote masses, motets and chansons. Stylistically his music is similar to Josquin's in its clarity of texture and design, and its relatively progressive nature: Févin evidently wrote in the most current styles, adopting the method of contrasting imitative sections with homophonic sections which came into prominence around 1490. Unlike Josquin, he was less concerned with the careful setting of text than with formal structure; his setting of individual words is occasionally clumsy, though his larger-scale structures are easy to follow. He also particularly liked the device of using vocal duets to contrast with the full sonority of the choir.

Some of Févin's music uses the technique of free contrapuntal fantasy, later perfected by Josquin, where strict imitation is absent; fragments of a cantus firmus pervade the texture, giving a feeling of overall unity and complete equality of all the voices.

Of his music, 14 masses (one of which is a Requiem Mass), 3 lamentations, 3 Magnificats, 14 motets and 17 chansons survive.

title: Antoine de Févin


text:
Mary Ellen Smith

Mary Ellen Spear Smith (October 11, 1863 – May 3, 1933) was a politician in British Columbia, Canada. She was the first female Member of the Legislative Assembly (MLA) in the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia, and both the first female cabinet minister and the first female Acting Speaker and the first woman cabinet minister in the British Empire.

Early life
Smith was born Mary Ellen Spear in Tavistock, Devon, England. Her mother was Mary Spear and father, Richard Spear, was a copper miner. She became a school teacher before marrying Ralph Smith, a widower, coal miner and unionist, in 1883. The couple had five children together, one daughter and four sons. She moved with him to British Columbia in the early 1891 shortly after their marriage, settling first in Nanaimo and then moving to Vancouver in 1911.

Career
She was an activist as a member of the Suffrage League of Canada, member of the Dominion Board of Mental Hygiene, president of the Women's Canadian Club and of the Women's Forum, regent of the Imperial Order Daughters of the Empire, and an executive member of the Canadian Red Cross. She also raised money for war veterans, and helped establish factories to employ blind children. She founded the "Laurier Liberal Club", and was an active Methodist.

Her husband, Ralph Smith, was a moderate trade union leader. He was elected to the BC legislature in 1898. He was elected to the House of Commons of Canada in the 1900 federal election. He returned to the BC legislature, and became British Columbia's Minister of Finance in 1916. Mary Ellen Smith helped her husband's political career by campaigning for him and making speeches on his behalf when he was unavailable.

Ralph Smith died in February 1917, and Mary Ellen Smith ran to succeed him as Member of the Legislative Assembly (MLA) for Vancouver in a January 1918 by-election. She ran as an "Independent Liberal" on the slogan "Women and children first". She was elected by a wide margin, becoming the first woman in the BC Legislature.

She said in a speech in the Legislature that "Not only did the women of my fair city stand behind me... but the men were there, too."

She was re-elected as a Liberal candidate in the 1920 and 1924 general elections.

As a legislator, she introduced the Minimum Wage Act of 1918, a law establishing a minimum wage for women of $12.77 per week. Smith helped enact laws establishing juvenile courts, allowing women to sit as judges, and passing laws protecting women in the workplace. She also worked to pass the Mothers' Pension Act in 1924, later renamed the Mothers' Allowances Act in 1937. This act provided divorced, deserted or widowed wives with guaranteed monthly income to raise children under the age of sixteen.

Smith also supported anti-Asian and eugenicist politics in British Columbia, including the Women and Girls’ Protection Act of 1923, which restricted their employment by Asians. She also advocated the sterilization of the feeble-minded lest their reproduction contribute to ‘race suicide’. She accepted the racial science of her day that justified legislation efforts to "protect our own [Anglo-Canadian] race." (as cited in Kerwin, 1999, p. 95). By embracing racism and eugenics within her feminism, Smith reflected the ideals of feminists of her era.

She joined the cabinet of Premier John Oliver in 1921 as minister without portfolio, but resigned after eight months as she felt that the rules of cabinet solidarity restricted her independence and she was never assigned to a dedicated portfolio.

On February 22, 1928 she served as Acting Speaker of the Legislative Assembly, the first woman to hold the position of Speaker in the British Empire. She was defeated in the 1928 election that brought down the Liberal government. For that election, she left her Vancouver riding and ran instead in the riding of Esquimalt on Vancouver Island.

In 1929, she was appointed Canada's delegate to the International Labour Organization conference in Geneva.

She served as president of the BC Liberal Party in the early 1930s until her death due to a stroke in 1933 at the age of 72.

Legacy
Smith's work to promote the rights of women and girls has been commemorated in feminist literature and in the public after her death, but her links to eugenics and anti-Asian policies were largely downplayed until recent decades.

In 2007, Smith was named a National Historic Person by the government of Canada. In Nanaimo the street Mary Ellen Drive, located between Dover Bay Road and the Island Highway, is named in her honour.

Mary Ellen Smith is also commemorated by the Legislative Assembly of British Columbia recognizing her as the first female MLA in British Columbia, the first female to be appointed a minister without portfolio in the British Empire, and as a campaigner for women's rights.

title: Mary Ellen Smith