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Talk:Battle of Gaugamela

Shouldn't this be mentioned?
I thought this battle marked the end of the use of the war chariot as a major weapon of war because of alexander's tactics. I'm not a regular editor or anything,so i'm not doing it, but just thought that should be added. You're wrong chariots were used in britain during the ceaser's invasion commentaries on gallic war 4:32

Effectiveness of the Persian Army
Will someone please link me to a page containing a decisive Persian victory? It seems like the entire history of that empire is fielding huge armies and getting butchered by smaller ones (Thermopylae, Salamis, Gaugamela, Plataea, etc.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.137.161.27 (talk) 03:19, 23 October 2008 (UTC)

Look up Cyrus the Great —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.188.234.227 (talk) 23:14, 24 April 2011 (UTC) Persian foot archers were second best light infantry the world(first were Chinese crossbowmen)after establishing the empire they had the world's best light cavalry i.e., the mounted archers of the steppe in their northeastern provinces and the had world best heavy cavalry i.e., cataphracts they were the precursor to the medieval knights unlike the knight's plate armor to the rider and horse they the mail armor and the immortals were neither an exceptional nor the worst heavy infantry but under most circumstances, you can count on them. the Persians lost to the greeks because of weaker heavy infantry and bad tactics

^^^ The Persian army was an exceptionally effective war machine, if it was otherwise, the Achaemenid Empire would have been impossible to establish. It is though, because of their defeats (for whatever reason) especially those suffered at the hands of Alexander- the history and recordings of their decisive victories aren't well known due to destruction by invaders. "History is written by the victors". 60.225.92.43 (talk) 07:55, 6 November 2013 (UTC) C.S AUS

"Hoplites"
If I recall the conventions of classical military history, Hoplites specifically refer to the citizen-soldiers of the Greek city-states who fought with spear and shield, not Macedonian professionals fighting with pikes and smaller shields. I'm pretty damn sure that John Warry's Warfare in the Classical World will back me up here, so I'm going to change the designation of the Macedonian infantry. Wilhelm Ritter 13:42, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

Dates in battle page names
I moved the page back to the original name. See WikiProject Battles no need for date in name unless as a disambiguation.

If you wish the page name to include the year and it is not for disambiguation, please discuss it under Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Battles --Philip Baird Shearer 10:52, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

Pronunciation
I know this may not be the most pressing of questions, but how are the vowels of 'Gaugamela' pronounced?

I (English) always thought it was pronounced the same as 'cow cammeller', but the narrator of a history programme (American) pronounced it 'gwagameela'. I think he was wrong, but I can not think of any other time I have heard it said (not something most people have conversations about!). Oswax 20:53, 22 September 2005 (UTC)

 * According to the American Heritage Dictionary, it's (/gô'gə-mē ' lə/ in their notation). —Simetrical (talk) 05:16, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

The proper pronunciation is Gog-a-Mel-a Rowanis12 (talk) 16:04, 25 June 2016 (UTC)

Is that Gaugamela or Issus?
The Brueghel painting on this page comes from the, where it is also identified as Gaugamela, but there's a lot info on the web suggesting that it might depict the Battle of Issus. Google gives far more English results for "Battle of Issus" + Brueghel than for Arbela or Gaugamela, and there are some sites   that list both Issus and Arbella as the title. I suspect that the subject of the painting might really not be known, or might be disputed, but if anyone has access to a reputable source (like the title the Louvre displays), it would be nice to make sure that our caption is accurate. ×Meegs 08:57, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I found this photo credit: "The Battle of Arbelles, or the Battle of Issus, 1602 (oil on canvas), Brueghel, Jan the Elder (1568-1625) /  Louvre, Paris, France,   /  Bridgeman Art Library" from .  I think the painter may have confused the two battles -- I don't see any reference to "the battle of Arbelles" anywhere except in the name of this painting, but assume it means "the battle of Arbela".  I think the photo can stay.  What do you think? --Jeffrey Henning 05:13, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Sure, we can keep the image, but there's no reason to hide this detail. What do you think about changing the caption to something like the credit you found? ×Meegs 14:19, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
 * That makes total sense to me. But should probably add a note to the effect "Painter may have confused the separate battles of Arbela and Issus." --Jeffrey Henning 03:13, 17 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, we don't know that for sure, and such detail probably doesn't belong in a caption anyway. If the painting's subject is truly unknown, or was somehow confused, then it probably doesn't belong at the top of this article; I'll leave that decision to others. I'm happy enough now that it's labeled properly. ×Meegs 03:47, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Date wrong:
Aelian (Var. Hist. 2.25) has the date as the 6th of Thargelion, roughly the beginning of May. Haiduc 03:01, 5 April 2006 (UTC)

Also, some sources state "October 31" while this says October 1. I do remember a report a few years back about the date being determined from the date of the eclipse, so I'm not certain if Oct 1 is the "old number" or the "new number." Ryoung 122 17:20, 13 March 2009 (UTC)

The date is correct:
The battle of Gaugamela took place 11 days after a lunar eclipse. This is reported both by Arrian and Plutarch. From astronomical calculations we know that a lunar eclipse occurred on the night of September 20, 331 BC. Therefore the battle took place on October 1. The date of this battle is actually one of the few firm dates that we have in Alexander's career. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.63.136.146 (talk) 18:20, 3 July 2009 (UTC)

Question
The article says, "The battle is also inaccurately called the Battle of Arbela." In which sense is this incorrect? - Nat Krause(Talk!) 22:59, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

I also would like to know why the alternative name is "inaccurate." Why can't it just say "The battle is also called the Battle of Arbela"? Or, "The battle is less commonly called the Battle of Arbela"?- Mark1000 30 Sep 2006 (I'm afraid I'm new to "talk," so I don't know what that link means. I apologize for any ettiquette violations.)

This is a good site for this stuff http://monolith.dnsalias.org/~marsares/warfare/battle/gaugamel.html I am the anonymous making the changes, in accordance to this source

Army Size
These numbers are inflated. There is no way the Persians had so many men. Historians cannot put numbers on battles this ancient and on battles that have so widely been exaggerated for thousands of years no matter how hard they try. I say we put both armies at unknown numbers.Khosrow II 04:49, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes they could have been so large see . Since the time of Niebuhr it has been accepted as a doctrine in the west that before the modern era armies could have never measured more than 100,000. This goes against a fundamental principle in science: there is no such thing as doctrine, doctrine is for religion only. The Persians had a population base of 70,000,000 at the time Alexander invaded, and managed to send 400,000+ in Greece in 480 BC (after 10 years of preparations). Ancient sources consistenly give 600 as the size of a Persian fleet unit (though this meant 138,000 rowers and marines). As for land army 60,000 as the size of a corps and 300,000 as the size of an army unit. These numbers come from various sources including the eye-witnesses Xenophon and Ctesias. Why would Ctesias, who wrote from Persian sources and was Artaxerxes Memnon's personal physician, lived in the Persian court and saw armies every day exagerate about their size? The Persians were much more capable of supplying large armies than they are being given credit. PS I am 143.233.183.210 who changed the page. More some reason I got logged off. Ikokki 13:07, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Those are very incorrect. First of all, the population of the Persian Empire at that time was around 40 million maximum. The Greeks were known for exaggerating everythign to make themselves look better. If you think about it, if an army of the size the Greeks said they faced in Persian actual existed, then there would be no way the Greeks could possibly win. No matter how good they were, they would eventually have been overrun. For example, the Greeks at thermopolae, who had everything to their advantage, were eventually over run, so how is it that Alexanders army, that fought on open terrain, could not be overrun? Its these things that dont make sense. The numbers were greatly exaggerated, and there was no way the Kings of Persia could sustain such large armies. Not even the Romans, who had twice the population of the Persian Empire, were able to raise that large of an army.Khosrow II 22:18, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Even if you disagree with the assertion do not remove references. Better yet, put up a reference with those that support your numbers. If the Persian empire had a population of 40,000,000 at 5% draft rate (the rate for modern armies) it could draft an army of 800,000. However in antiquity the draft rate was more like 30%, that part of the Greek population was drafted for Plataea. Now the Persian had 300,000 at Plataea, not only because Herodotus said so but because,as Macan and Munro have pointed out, he gives the names of 29 Μυριαρχοι that is leaders of the baivabaram. The baivabaram had 10,000 soldiers. Now if the Persians had managed to sent (albeit with 10 years of preparation) 400,000+ soldiers to Greece, why could they not draft 250,000 (Rufus' number) in Gaugamela? I do not believe that Greek writers are exaderating in Persian numbers, I believe that their modern critics are excessively dogmatic in their approach. And no, the Roman Empire had a smaller population than the Persian Empire. At its maximum, in the second century AD it had a population no more than 70,000,000 with a lower population density, especially in the West. The Persians controlled Asia Minor, Syria and Egypt (like the Romans) but also the densely populated Mesopotamia, the Iranian Plateau and Bactria thus having a larger population. Ikokki 11:04, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

 * We must not forget the the hoplites were the most heavily armed soldiers in the world (or at least in the West) at that time. In Thermopylae the Greeks lost because on the third day a local man showed the Persians the Anopaia Odos and the Persians encircled the Greek force. Let us not forget what happened earlier: According to Ctesias (who mostly wrote to please his Persian sponsors and used the Persian archives) the first 10,000 Persian soldiers sent were cut down to the last with the losses of 2 or 3 Greeks only (see Persica paragraph 27). In Pampremis the Egyptians were losing the battle to the Persians until the Athenians defeated the Persians opposite them and created a breach which the Egyptians used to defeat the Persians, again, the heavy armor of the hoplite was sucsessfull. It was not a racial thing, in the Battle of Gaza in 201 BC the Egyptians also formed a very sucsesfull phalanx. In any case Glotz accepts that at least 3 Persians were necessary to defeat one hoplite. Considering that it was never certain where the loyalty of Greek hoplites working for the Persians was to be, it is reasonable for the Darius to raise an Asian army capable of defeating on its own Alexander's force.

 * Numerical superiority helps but is not a prequisite for victory. Especially before gunpowder quality and discipline were a major factor. The Roman never raised huge armies because they never needed them. In the West, except for the Punic Wars, the Romans were mostly facing barbarians. In the East, they always had allies. Let us remember though that at the battle of Alesia Ceasar deafeted an army 6 to 7 times his size, why shouldn't Alexander? The Persians were fully capable of defeating Alexander until Darius fled the battle, leading to his army's dissolution. In case you disagree, that is acceptable. Do not remove though what ancient sources say. Change the phrasing so that, like at Battle of Thermopylae it says both theories over. Do not POV the article.Ikokki 11:33, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

 * You are getting many many thigns mixed up, especially with modern times. First of all, the population of the whole word at that time was probably a bit over 100 million, and the Persian Empire certainly did not posses 70 million of the entire population of the earth. Secondly, armies more than tens of thousands could not be supported at that time unless they were nomadic armies, which the Persians were not. Thirdly, if you say had as much men as you say for just one battle, then how could the Romans not summon such great armies? The Roman Empire had more people in it than the Persian empire did for its time period. Greek historians, as well as all historians in ancient times, exaggerated things a lot. Even Iranian historians did. For example, Iranian historians claimed an army of 300,000 Turks were defeated by only 12,000 Savaran (Persia's elite units) during the time of the Sassanid Empire.

 * Furthur disproving you and ancient Greek historians is the fact that as time moved on and sources became more credible, we know that the Romans and Parthians, and the Byzantines and Sassanids did not fight with armies in the hundreds of thousands. We also know that the Muslims and Christians did not fight with armies of hundreds of thousands. The fact is that Greek historians exaggerated a lot, you have to accept this.Khosrow II 20:23, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

 * The population of the world was around 200,000,000 at that time. The Roman empire had a population of 45 million in 14 AD out of 300,000,000 total (see The Byzantines did send 135,000 at the time of Leo the Thracian to conquer the Vandal Kingdom (which failed), the Avar and Persian army at the time of Heraclius was also over 100,000 and the Arab army of the second  Arab siege of Constantinople was way over 100,000, this is confirmed by both Arab and Byzantine sources, only 80,000 Arab cavalry escaped. The 1st crusade numbered 135,000 crusaders when it crossed the Bosporus. The population of Antiquity was bigger than in the Middle Ages (the Justiniac plague caused a serious reduction in world population) and so where the armies, something that Leo the Wise accepts in his book Tactics. Ancient states could also be as organised or better organised than later states. For his campaign in Greece Xerxes had built five major  food depots in the north coast of the Aegean in which food over several years had been gathered to feed his army and had 3,000 transport ships bringing supplies.

 * The Romans never really faced major armies and thus did not need to form major armies at once. The did have though some 40 standing legions and thus 400,000 soldiers. The Germans that were menacing Gaul in the 3rd century were some 7,000-strong, obviously they did not need a large army to face them, just better leadership. In the battle of Cannes they faced the biggest army they ever encountered, thus they raised the biggest army they ever had to. In the campaigns they had in Greece they never had to face more than 40,000 Greeks, plus they had Greek allies on their side.

 * To return to the Persian army in Xerxes' invasion according to the critical school the Persian sent 200,000 land troops of which 60,000-120,000 were combat troops (a very ridiculus proposition IMO considering the Greeks raised 38,400 hoplites and a total of 110,000 troops at Plataea, if there were so few Persians why did they not face them at the border of Macedon, where they could also enjoy the support of Macedonian and Thessalian cavalry, instead of having them conquer and raze their cities?). Why would Darius raise a smaller army than that sent by Xerxes over a century earlier, especially so near his base of ops? In any case it is recongnise by everyone the superiority of the armaments of the Greeks could only be faced by an inferiorly armed army through superiority on numbers.

 * Even if you disagree with ancient sources do not remove them from the text, I will keep on reverting it back. Write why you believe it was not that high but there is no reason Arrian's, Diodorus' or Curtius Rufus numbers should not be on the main text. After all according to WP:TPA a great article:
 * acknowledges and explores all aspects of the subject; i.e., it covers every encyclopedic angle of the subject.
 * is well-documented; all facts are cited from reputable sources, preferably sources that are accessible and up-to-date.

 * I would really love to read a summary of how you (or better yet those who you copy) come up with these low numbers. Please do not do the lazy thing and revert the page, write where these numbers derive from after having them listed. I will add references of historians that accept ancient numbers tommorow, do add historians that accept your numbers (and better yet how they come up with them).Ikokki 00:46, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Encyclopaedia Iranic clearly states that the ancient figures are worthless (by the way, for those that dont know, Encyclopaedia Iranica is a work being carried out by Cambridge University and is considered to be the highest authority regarding Iranian history). I put unknown in, this way, everyone is happy. Its a good compromise.Khosrow II 23:53, 12 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Unlike say chemistry where there is an absolute source book called "Standard Methods" (which gets revised every few years) which tells you the proper way say to measure say calcium in a sample, in humanities there is no absolute source. I already mention 4 sources that claim that ancient numbers are right, the history of the Greek Nation was composed by the greatest academics (albeit thirty years ago), considering it included military and Persia specialists, there is no reason it should be less reliable Encyclopaedia Iranica.

 * Don't remove ancient sources. It will only get you in trouble with the editors. You might not like them but, in the name on neutrality, Wikipedia inlcudes pretty strange stuff. See for example New Chronology (Fomenko) Ikokki 13:34, 14 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Editors should only use common sense. If Xerxes can send 250,000 men on a punitive expedition just to raze Greece, then Darius III can certainly summon 250,000 men in a last ditch effort to save his dying empire. But then again academic ignorance seems to be the problem here. You give credit to modern sources which by all means are but theories yet you do not give credence to ancient sources closer to Alexander's timeline.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.138.162.6 (talk) 21:03, 26 March 2009 (UTC)

 * What about civilian levies? Those peaseant guys given a short spear/sword and a wooden shield and no armour? They seemed to be common in ancient warfare. My book Warfare of the Classical World, list them. I forgot how many though.ParallelPain 05:37, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Seek out a copy of Marsden's 'Campaign of Gaugamela' (Liverpool University Press, 1970s). I think this is the most reasoned and detailed account of the composition of both armies. Persian forces (discounting the second or reserve battle line of unenthusiastic levies who - these were not Kardakes which were a better grade of infantry and which had been pretty much wiped from the order of battle after Issos) effectively (e.g. main battle line) amount to 33,000 cavalry and only 9,000 infantry. Alexander's army comprising 38,500 infantry, but only around 7,000 cavalry.

 * I've just added a tag to this sentence in regards to troop numbers of the Persians "Many modern scholars[who?]agree that Darius III's army was no larger than 50,000". Who are these "many" modern scholars? Unless there's a good list I suggest "Some modern scholars..." or just name those scholars so that it reads "X and Y agree that..." Master z0b (talk) 02:30, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

 * If only the editor will use a little more common sense. Nebuchadnezzar ordered his general Holofernes to punish eastern satrapies which did not come to his aid in a previous war. Holofernes was given 100,000 and 15,000 cavalry. That's 100,000 troops just for a punitive expedition. Xerxes mustered 250,000 troops just to invade Greece. How did Wikipedia's vast knowledge come up with an idea that Darius could not muster 250,000 troops when Darius is fighting for the very survival of his empire and he had more than 1 year to prepare. A little more common sense will go a long way. These so-called "professional sources" are nothing more than an opinion.

I would say that the Persian army numbered 250,000 to 255,000 at most, no more than that. Had the case been that Alexander's army had indeed fought a 1,040,000 strong or a million men strong army and had won as effectively as they are portrayed to have won then they would certainly have not been unwilling to fight Nanda's 220,000 strong army with it's 3000 elephants as I am certain that no matter how terrifying Nanda's army may have seemed to the Greeks a million man army would have been far more terrifying to behold and far more demoralizing to fight and contemplate as such an army would indeed look like it is as vast as the sea and in case you do not agree with me all you need to do is imagine you are a soldier in the front lines of Alexander's army and have faced the Persians at Gaugamela and now have to face the Indians of Nanda's army, respectively, would you be as frightened and demoralized of the Indian army (as much as the Greeks actually were) if you knew that you have defeated an army 5 times larger than this one? No rather you would be able to encourage yourself to fight them and would have faith in your commander and king who has seen you through tougher conditions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.138.162.6 (talk) 23:30, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

Authoritative Sources
Would be modern historians of the caliber of Fox, Green, Bosworth etc, not Lendering. Wikipedia's guidelines say this about reliable sources:

"In general, the most reliable sources are books and journals published by university presses; mainstream newspapers; and magazines and journals published by known publishing houses. As a rule of thumb, the more people engaged in checking facts, analysing legal issues, and scrutinizing the writing, the more reliable the publication. Material that is self-published, whether on paper or online, is generally not regarded as reliable"

''"Anyone can create a website or pay to have a book published, then claim to be an expert in a certain field. For that reason, self-published books, personal websites, and blogs are largely not acceptable as sources.

''Self-published material may be acceptable when produced by a well-known, professional researcher in a relevant field or a well-known professional journalist. These may be acceptable so long as their work has been previously published by reliable third-party publications. However, exercise caution: if the information in question is really worth reporting, someone else is likely to have done so."

 * Look that Lendering awnsers perfectly WP:RS: she is a respected Dutch scholar, and the piece in question compares also in the biography of Alexander she pubblished. This I know by the BMCR, a scholarly journal that reviws the book and mentions exactly this passage.--Aldux 01:38, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

 * The review of Lendering can be found here. I haven't been following this dispute closely but I agree with Aldux: Lendering meets WP:RS. (note that Lendering is male, however.) --Akhilleus (talk) 01:49, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the link. I accept that Lendering's mention in the BMCR, which I was not aware of, probably does make him meet WP:RS. However I am still not comfortable with the way that his theory about Darius's breaking features more prominently in this article than the more commonly held view of him instigating the flight of the whole army, which is supported by Arrian, Plutarch. I propose that this section is reworked to reflect that Lendering's opinion is in the minority. --Trolip (talk)

I have provided a quote from Arrian to create more balance in this section and have removed the comment about Diodorus agreeing, since his account of the battle is entirely different from the one in this article and is also different from Lendering's argument. Diodorus, like Arrian, says that the flight became general after Darius fled (17.60), which is different from Lendering's claim. I hope this is a fair compromise.--Trolip 02:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

Night Attack
Perhaps a piece on the discussion on the night(or dusk) preceding the battle, specifically the discussion between Alexander, Parmenio et al. about whether to launch a night attack could be included. It is, in my view, an important aspect on the battle, and shows a lot about Alexander's character and his feelings about the battle ahead. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.42.185.65 (talk) 17:10, 3 April 2008 (UTC) Persians were waiting all night for a Macedonian attack .So if Alexander had attacked during the night he couldn't have used his tactics without a good view of the battle then for alexander would be left with either an orderly retreat or a pyrrhic victory

Immortals
the number of Persian elite immortals were always kept at 10,000 no matter what. please do not change this to 15,000 as it is totally absurd. especially when most of the immortals perished in issus.

FYI There is still a 15,000 reference in the article.

By the time of Alexander's was against Persia the Immortals no longer existed as a Corps. of 10,000. There were two 1,000 strong Guard units, one of cavalry and one of infantry.

It wasn't the Immortals who 'perished at Issos' it wsa the Persian Kardakes (who were more like a citizen militia / paramilitary police). Armed with short spear, short axe (or sword) and shield, possibly with linen armour, no helmets and certainly not an elite guard.

WPMilHist assessment
Demoted to "Start", as citations are needed in the Location section. Ejosse1 (talk) 18:29, 24 September 2008 (UTC)

An observation that must be considered
The Battles of Salamis, Thermopylae, Mycale, and Marathon claim descisive Greek victory, when two or three Greek city states fought in these battles, yet the Battles of Gaugamela, Issus, Granicus claim Macedonian victory, when the whole of the Greeks fought against the Persians yet again, implying much from the point of the reader. Why Macedonian here and not Athenian victory at the battle of Marathon? But "descisive Greek victory"? What does that imply? Are the Macedonians distinct from the rest of the Greek nation? WAS THIS NOT A UNITED GREEK EXPEDITION? Was it not a Greek victory at Gaugamela, Issus and Granicus, etc? Were the Macedonians and the rest of the Greeks not united under the pan-Hellenic league of Corinth? Was this not a combined expedition of the Greeks against their traditional enemies the Persians? Are you authors attempting to re-write history?

And I quote!

Alexander sent to Athens three hundred full suits of Persian armour as a votive offering to Athena on the Acropolis, with orders for the following inscription to accompany them:”An offering from Alexander, son of Philip, and the Greeks, apart from the Spartans, taken from the barbarians who live in Asia.” Arrian I.16.7

Alexander wanted lo reinvigorate his men, it now being wintertime, and remained there at Persepolis for four months. It is said that, when the king first seated himself on the royal throne under the golden awning, the Corinthian Demaratus – a kindly man who had been a friend of Alexander’s father – burst into tears, as old men do. Those Greeks had been deprived of a very pleasurable experience, he reportedly said, who had died before seeing Alexander seated on Darius’ throne.

Plutarch, Alexander 37.6-7

It has been reported to me that it was the rhetorician Isocrates who was responsible for the servitude that the Macedonian imposed on the Persians. For the fame of the speech Panegyricus, which Isocrates delivered to the Greeks, spread to Macedonia, And it was this that first stirred Philip’s animosity towards Asia. When Philip died, the speech provided the incentive for his son Alexander, heir to his father’s estate, to keep up Philip’s momentum.

Aelian, Varia Historia 13.11

I added the last one because Isocrates was the only Greek who went around from city state to city state across ancient Greece and Magna Grecia, trying to convince the Greeks to attack the Persians and drive the barbarians from Asia Minor, he found fertile ground in the court of Philip II of Macedon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.227.187.173 (talk • contribs) 22:06, 28 March 2011

Misuse of sources
This article has been edited by a user who is known to have misused sources to unduly promote certain views (see WP:Jagged 85 cleanup). Examination of the sources used by this editor often reveals that the sources have been selectively interpreted or blatantly misrepresented, going beyond any reasonable interpretation of the authors' intent.

Diffs for each edit made by Jagged 85 are listed at Cleanup6. It may be easier to view the full history of the article.

A script has been used to generate the following summary. Each item is a diff showing the result of several consecutive edits to the article by Jagged 85, in chronological order. Johnuniq (talk) 11:33, 3 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Battle of Gaugamela:

Clarification asked
In the article I find this line:" During the battle Alexander used an unusual strategy which has been duplicated only a few times throughout history. While the infantry battled the Persian troops in the center, Alexander began to ride all the way to the edge of the right flank, accompanied by his Companion Cavalry." Can somebody clarify this, preferably with sources? Wereldburger758 (talk) 13:08, 21 October 2012 (UTC)
 * 1) "An unusual strategy only a few times used troughout history." When and by whom?
 * 2) "Alexander began to ride all the way to the edge of the right flank, accompanied by his Companion Cavalry." This line doesn't correspond with the images included in the article. In the images one can see that the Companion Cavalry didn't ride all the way to the edge of the right flank. It is almost in the center. Again, is there anyone who can clarify this for me, and again preferably with sources.

Mistake in the second picture of the battle
In the second picture of the battle (Alexander's decisive movement and Decisive Attack) one can see that one cavalry unit of the Persians has swerved around the left flank of the Greek and attacks the Greeks from behind. Again, are there any sources that state this. Logic says that if this had really happened, Alexander's left flank would have collapsed. To my recollection, the Persians were only able to breach the Greek falanx in the middle because of a gap that appeared in the lines and the Persians who breached it were dealt with by those who were left in reserve by Alexander. Wereldburger758 (talk) 13:18, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

First picture is wrong
Pretty clearly says in the description of the photo itself that it's "Porus at the Battle of the Hydaspes (Jhelum)," so totally different battle. Maybe the giant on an elephant should have given that away. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.32.125.123 (talk) 07:59, 20 November 2013 (UTC)

I agree, first picture is about Hydaspes Battle. The enemy king doesn´t look like Dario, he does like Poro. Besides, we can see in the picture big trees and a large mass of water (the sea or a big river). We can´t find these elements in Gaugamela.--Gonzalo5331 (talk) 13:46, 12 November 2014 (UTC)

Contemporary Location of the Battlefield is Wrong
The section pertaining to the contemporary location of the Battle is incorrect, specifically the co-ordinates given for Stein's placement of the battlefield. When the file opens (I have only tried Google Earth,) the site indicates a location approximately 5 miles due east of the Ruins of Nineveh. In Notes on Alexander's Crossing Of the Tigris River Stein describes the battlefield as running "by the plain first on a line running approximately from near Qaraqosh in the south past Keramlais to the foot of the Jabal 'Ain-as-Satrah." This would place the battlefield farther to the east and west. The town names have changed. Keramlais is now Karemlesh, and Qaraqosh is referred to by some as Bakhdida.

Stein also makes note of a large mound just west of Keramlais, which is clearly visible on satellite imaging viewers. The rough terrain described by Stein just south of Qaraqosh, Arrian, and Curtius is also evident in any view, or on topographical maps. To the east of Qaraqosh is the high ground mentioned by Curtius that Alexander pressed his men to reach.

As such, the easternmost part of the battlefield would run on a line from roughly 36°16'09"N, 43°22'04"E (Qaraqosh) to 36°22'36"N, 43°25'14"E (the base of Jabal 'Ain-as-Satrah,) with the mid-point located at 36°19'38"N, 43°23'50"E. The center of the battle line would be oriented almost exactly toward Nineveh, which makes logical sense, given Steins argument that Alexander most likely crossed the Tigris near Abu Wajnam, and then proceeded towards Nineveh, where he rested his forces for four days. .

In light of these observations, I believe that co-ordinates to the battlefield should be changed to accurately reflect Stein's assessment of where the Battle of Gaugamela occurred. My recommendation would be vicinity of 36°19'38"N, 43°23'50"E, based on his very detailed description in Alexander's Crossing of the Tigris and the Battle of Arbela.

''Note: Pardon the clutter, as this is my first Wikipedia post, I am not used to the reference templates. I am used to the CMS method of annotation, and manually entered all my references, and after several attempts to get my citations done, believe I have finally figured it all out.''

Tank0133 (talk) 22:35, 3 December 2014 (UTC)Tank

greek vs macedonian
I think that all this fake "history" on Wikipedia is rubbish. It is under a huge influence of modern greek propaganda.

There were NO GREEKS in ancient times. "Greek" is invented word for the invented nation that started to exist in 1830s (only few centuries before it was in preparation and definitely it was not existing in ancient times - in ancient times there were ancient people)

For the sake of ancient Macedonians, please RETURN "Macedonian army" on the places where you totaly unfair to ancient macedonians write "greek army". It is unfair because you are describing something that happened 2300 years ago when there were no greeks with terms invented latter and then rename the older name according to the new name.

And please do not play games with names. :( It is waste of time not only me and you - for generations that will read about this battle....

It will be the best for the future generations if you just translate (but literally - not with changing of names and giving narration) existing REAL books (if any! --- not fake propaganda from before few centuries).

And it will be real benefit for the future generations if you mark that this page (and similar pages) are heavily disputed by the Macedonians of 21st century. Just for the generations that will come to know that this is not black and white page (meaning >nothing< according "black" (Macedonian of 21st century side) and >everything< according "white" (Greek of 21st century side)) 88.85.115.130 (talk) 10:42, 12 May 2015 (UTC)

 * Please read Greeks and consider that the word "Greek" is used for the ethnic group in ancient times as well. The scientific sources also use this name. As for referring to the Greek army instead of the Macedonian army, I did so because Alexander led the Greeks since the establishment of the League of Corinth. However, after reading Ancient Macedonians I agree we should consider Greeks and Macedonians to be distinct. Also, because the Macedonians led the army and because the other articles on battles of Alexander's Persian campaign refer to the Macedonian army and victories, we should indeed refer to Macedonians instead of Greeks. I will change it accordingly. --AlexanderVanLoon (talk) 11:40, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

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gaugamela, broken army, livius.org
The contested text is: "A less common view is that Darius' army was already broken when he ran; this view is supported by an astronomical diary from Babylon written within days of the battle" The source is now here: and the relevant commentary is "One important point. That Darius' troops, as recorded on day twenty-four, left their king, has created embarrassment among classicists, because it contradicts what is written by the ancient Greek and Roman historians Curtius Rufus, Plutarch of Chaeronea and Arrian of Nicomedia: that Darius fled from the battle field. I have seen the lines of the Astronomical Diary translated as "the king deserted the troops"; this error may have been caused by the odd sequence of the words of the Babylonian author, "the king, his troops left him"."

How does this comment by Jona Lendering back the article text, now removed? I'd say that Lendering is a reliable source, might need attribution, but that's not the issue here. Does Lendering say "A less common view is that Darius' army was already broken when he ran; this view is supported by an astronomical diary from Babylon written within days of the battle"? Doug Weller talk 17:43, 1 June 2020 (UTC)

 * "Less common" refers to the fact that Lendering's view is supported by only a smaller section of academics, but you may be right about the second part of the phrase. Would it become acceptable if I reframed it as "A less common view is that Darius' army was already broken when he ran; this view is based on an astronomical diary from Babylon written within days of the battle" and then add the translation of the tablet? Lendering does base himself on this. (My sincere regrets if I'm being a bore; it's just that this section is important.) HalfdanRagnarsson (talk) 01:36, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Doug, I need your consensus to re-insert that portion. Please do continue the discussion. HalfdanRagnarsson (talk) 15:13, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * You could quote Lendering. You've got no source for "less common view", even if true. Doug Weller  talk 15:57, 2 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the input. I'll delete "less common view" and replace it with "Jona Lendering's view", making it run like this:
 * "Jona Lendering's view is that it was Darius' army that abandoned him; this view is based on an astronomical diary from Babylon written within days of the battle." HalfdanRagnarsson (talk) 16:04, 2 June 2020 (UTC)

Infobox result
Does anyone have an issue with the word 'decisive' in the infobox? It fits pretty well here, and I see no reason to remove it. HalfdanRagnarsson (talk) 08:23, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Just pin down my opinion here, as i stated before: MOS:MIL states that terms like "Pyrrhic victory" or "decisive victory" are inappropriate for outcomes. It may also be appropriate to omit the "result". Coltsfan (talk) 12:42, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * The word "decisive" in the Infobox military conflict results parameter runs counter to the documentation there that 'this parameter may use one of two standard terms: "X victory" or "Inconclusive"'. It is also contrary to the WP:MILHIST Manual of Style at WP:MILMOS, which is a WP:GUIDELINE: ' The "result" parameter has often been a source of contention. Particular attention should be given to the advice therein. The infobox does not have the scope to reflect nuances, and should be restricted to "X victory" or "See aftermath" (or similar) where the result was inconclusive or does not otherwise fit with these restrictions. In particular, terms like "Pyrrhic victory" or "decisive victory" are inappropriate for outcomes. It may also be appropriate to omit the "result".' I'm pretty sure this isn't even the correct place for such a discussion per WP:LOCALCONSENSUS: "Consensus among a limited group of editors, at one place and time, cannot override community consensus on a wider scale." You should raise this at WP:MILMOS or WP:MILHIST if you really believe that the word in the infobox adds appreciatively to the reader's understanding of the article and think you can be persuasive enough to change the existing consensus. But my opinion is that if someone "reads" the article just by scanning the infobox they miss all nuance anyway – they won't find out the battle was decisive, but they won't have any understanding of the topic anyway. Mojoworker (talk) 22:56, 14 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Those pages make it quite clear that words like "Decisive" are to be avoided only in case of an ambiguity in the result. That is not the case here. The consensus isn't against using these words when there is clarity on the result; therefore, this does not fall under WP:CD. Coming to the word itself, it is useful in giving clarity, and is better in conforming to WP:MOS than a blunt field. Of course, it shouldn't be used if there is ambiguity about the result - but that isn't the case here. HalfdanRagnarsson (talk) 08:29, 15 June 2020 (UTC)
 * This is the entirety of the entry at Infobox military conflict for the parameter in question (I've bolded the cogent portions): result – optional – this parameter may use one of two standard terms: "X victory" or "Inconclusive". The term used is for the "immediate" outcome of the "subject" conflict and should reflect what the sources say. In cases where the standard terms do not accurately describe the outcome, a link or note should be made to the section of the article where the result is discussed in detail (such as "See the section"). Such a note can also be used in conjunction with the standard terms but should not be used to conceal an ambiguity in the "immediate" result. Do not introduce non-standard terms like "decisive", "marginal" or "tactical", or contradictory statements like "decisive tactical victory but strategic defeat". Omit this parameter altogether rather than engage in speculation about which side won or by how much.

 * This is the entry at WP:MILMOS: Used for all conflicts and combat operations, such as battles, campaigns, and wars. The "result" parameter has often been a source of contention. Particular attention should be given to the advice therein. The infobox does not have the scope to reflect nuances, and should be restricted to "X victory" or "See aftermath" (or similar) where the result was inconclusive or does not otherwise fit with these restrictions. In particular, terms like "Pyrrhic victory" or "decisive victory" are inappropriate for outcomes. It may also be appropriate to omit the "result".

 * Nowhere do I see that either 'make it quite clear that words like "Decisive" are to be avoided only in case of an ambiguity in the result.' Can you quote where you are seeing that? The only guideline compliant option I see would be to replace "Macedonian victory" with "See Aftermath", but I doubt that's what you're asking for. Mojoworker (talk) 01:11, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

 * Note what it says just before 'Do not introduce...'. It tells us not to introduce them if there is an ambiguity in the immediate result. If, as you have done, we are to take the entry word-to-word, then any description on the result column becomes taboo. Take a look at the page on the 1948 Arab-Israeli war; a degree of description is done, and this is because it is valid. Many discussions, like this one, have taken place over this, and there is no consensus at WP:CD over this, which is why this matter is not present in WP:PERENNIAL. That is also why I said this is not a matter for WP:CD - the lack of consensus there, for either your view or mine, means that this matter has to be settled on a case-by-case basis.
 * In this case, I see nothing in the way. The battle was certainly decisive, and infoboxes are meant to present some brief details (though certainly not a summary) of the article. "Decisive" is a useful term. Citations shouldn't be a problem here - there are plenty  . HalfdanRagnarsson (talk) 10:11, 16 June 2020 (UTC)
 * That's a novel interpretation. You're ignoring half the sentence (and the one preceding). Don't quote sentence fragments and interpret them out of context. I'm starting to doubt that you're acting in good faith, but I'll WP:AGF that, from your username, English is not your native language, and you've misinterpreted the instructions. The section of the template documentation that you are quoting says: In cases where the standard terms do not accurately describe the outcome, a link or note should be made to the section of the article where the result is discussed in detail (such as "See the Aftermath section"). Such a note can also be used in conjunction with the standard terms but should not be used to conceal an ambiguity in the "immediate" result. So, if it's your contention that "Macedonian victory" does not "accurately describe the outcome", based on the documentation, "a link or note should be made to the section of the article where the result is discussed in detail". "Such a note" would be either "See section" or "Macedonian victory – See  section" or similar. But if that's not your argument, and you want it to say "decisive Macedonian victory", then as I explained in my previous response, the documentation defines the standard terms to be used and admonishes: Do not introduce non-standard terms like "decisive".

 * But, more alarmingly, you've completely ignored the WP:GUIDELINE at WP:MILMOS, which, as a guideline, takes precedence and is quite clear: In particular, terms like "Pyrrhic victory" or "decisive victory" are inappropriate for outcomes. If you are trying to convince us to ignore that WP:GUIDELINE, what is your rationale? But, more importantly, you're wasting our time with this discussion here – as I said before, this isn't the correct venue for a discussion to override a guideline per WP:LOCALCONSENSUS: Consensus among a limited group of editors, at one place and time, cannot override community consensus on a wider scale. You are correct that WP:CD is not the proper venue, since this is not a wp-en wide issue. The "Guidance on results" discussion you linked to at the talk page of WP:MILMOS is where you should raise the issue. And as a result of that discussion you linked to, you can see that the guideline was changed a couple of years ago. That's where you need to have this discussion.

 * No one (that I've seen) is contending that it was not a decisive victory, rather that it is not an allowed value for the results parameter of the infobox. There's a reason these guidelines were established. I don't know the entire backstory, but I'd guess that it was decided it's better to disallow "decisive" in the result parameter (even where it would be a valid result, based on WP:RS) than to have a bunch of WP:Randys going around adding "decisive" to the outcome of "Battle of Foggy Woods" just because he thinks it's appropriate. Mojoworker (talk) 20:15, 16 June 2020 (UTC)

 * Now, there's no need to get aggressive. (I mean, I'm not breaking any rules or edit-warring, am I? This is a perfectly within-rules discussion on a talk page.) I never advocated breaking the guideline. (Also, I'm a native speaker of English, so that isn't in the way - Halfdan Ragnarsson was a Viking warlord.) What I mean is how the guideline should be understood - as I mentioned earlier, if we take it word-to-word, most WP:MILHIST articles would fly in the face of it. Per WP:5P5, we must understand what it is meant for, and how it should be applied. (Also, note that that discussion didn't really settle against terminology.) I've already made my points; now I'll let others weigh in on it. HalfdanRagnarsson (talk) 08:42, 17 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Sorry if that came across as aggressive, I'm just frustrated I can't convince you that you're wrong and I'm right. And, to be clear, I'm not suggesting that you are a WP:Randy. My apologies if it came across that way. But, yeah, we've both detailed our reasoning, so let's let others weigh in. Mojoworker (talk) 18:36, 17 June 2020 (UTC)

Unprotecting the page
Can the page be unlocked? It stops a lot of useful contributions. (Per discussion here) 183.83.146.145 (talk) 14:46, 1 July 2020 (UTC)

 * Late answer, but you can ask at WP:RFPP. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 13:03, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Figures about army sizes and losses are totally implausibable
You should find sources for this kind of information because it changes totally the way this battle is seen. Without sources, i would rather prefer we don't announce fake numbers Dondarderno (talk) 02:39, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

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Talk:Lindsay Tanner

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Wikipedia:WikiProject Canberra

Some Wikipedians have formed a project to better organise information in articles related to Canberra and the Australian Capital Territory. This page and its subpages contain their suggestions; it is hoped that this project will help to focus the efforts of other Wikipedians. If you would like to help, please inquire on the talk page and see the to-do list there.

Also visit the Australian Wikipedians' noticeboard for collaboration on Australian articles in general.

Title
WikiProject on the city of Canberra, Australia

Scope
This WikiProject aims primarily to create, fill out, build, edit, construct, modify articles about Canberra. Canberra is Australia's capital city and has many places of interest, significant events and interesting people that have helped form the unique character and style of the city. The project has also been expanded to cover the rest of the Australian Capital Territory.

Parentage
The parent of this WikiProject is WikiProject Cities.

Active participants
To join WikiProject Canberra, edit this section and insert the Wikitext   with your areas of interest into the following list of participants in alphabetical order. Participants should also place participant identification on their user page.
 * 1) Adz (spending less time on Canberra articles these days, will chip in every now and then)
 * 2) AlexNebraska
 * 3) Alpha993 (currently working on 1971 Canberra flood, ACT Ambulance Service, ACT Emergency Services Authority, Paramedics in Australia)
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title: Wikipedia:WikiProject Canberra


text:
Pinfire cartridge

The pin-fire (or pinfire) is a type of metallic cartridge used in firearms, where the priming compound is ignited by striking a small pin that protrudes radially from above the base of the cartridge. Invented by Frenchman Casimir Lefaucheux in 1832, but not patented until 1835, it was one of the earliest practical designs of a metallic cartridge to hasten the loading and firing process of a firearm. Its history is closely associated with the development of the breechloader, which would eventually replace all muzzle-loading firearms.

The cartridge featured a small pin that, when struck, would ignite the priming compound and initiate the firing process. Despite initial resistance, especially from British gun users, the pinfire cartridge gained popularity following the Great Exhibition of 1851. Its advantages included easier and faster loading than percussion weapons, and it was more likely to fire reliably when wet. However, with the introduction of reliable rimfire and centerfire cartridges, which were quicker to load and safer, the pinfire cartridge became obsolete. Today, enthusiasts of vintage weaponry often create pinfire cartridges from modern materials for use in antique firearms.

History
The Swiss gun maker Samuel Joannes Pauly patented the first breechloading cartridge in 1812. This was for use in a shotgun with fixed barrels which was loaded by lifting a breech block on the top. French gun maker Henri Roux attempted to improve this cartridge in the 1820s but a constantly primed cartridge was felt by many to be too dangerous and many breechloading guns reverted to using an unprimed cartridge. This was fired by a separate percussion cap which was used on the still dominant muzzle-loading guns.

Casimir Lefaucheux of Paris decided in 1832 to patent a breechloader where the barrel hinged downwards to reveal the breech ends. These still used a separate percussion cap. Though used before this, (as seen in surviving pinfire shotshells that lists the names of early gun makers he signed contracts with in 1833 and 1834,) in 1835 he was granted an addition to the 1832 patent for a new type of cartridge in which the cartridge's priming compound is ignited by striking a small pin which protrudes radially from just above the base of the cartridge. These pins fitted into a small groove cut in the top of each barrel-end and made it easy to see if the gun was loaded. The interior side of the chamber served as an anvil so that the cap won't move, which was a problem in some early cartridge designs at the time. The cartridge used metal bases (often brass) with paper tubes which were usually loaded by the shooter or his staff but were not entirely gas-tight. This reduced the force of the charge and allowed powder residue and gas to escape.

The pinfire cartridge was greatly improved by the 1846 patent (number 1963) by Benjamin Houllier of Paris which introduced a base wad and effectively made the cartridge gas-tight which greatly improved the performance. They were cheap and clean shooting. These improved pinfire guns grew in popularity in France and some were imported by British gun makers to overwhelming indifference on the part of the gun users there. They were prejudiced technically against a gun that 'broke' in the middle, despite the much vaunted benefits of breechloading. They owned muzzle-loaders of exquisite perfection, considered themselves the best engineers in the world (inventing the Industrial Revolution), and had a poor view of the French - the old enemy and an unreliable ally.

It was not until the Great Exhibition of 1851 was held in London that breechloading guns were taken more seriously by British and American gun makers in particular. The display of a Lefaucheux breechloading gun inspired English apprentice gunmaker Edwin Charles Hodges (1831–1925) to make an improved copy and persuade leading London gun maker Joseph Lang that this was the gun of the future. Lang was universally credited to be the first established British gunmaker to produce pinfires in any numbers. His first weapon of this new type was produced in 1853. Other British gun makers including Lancaster, Blanch and Reilly were similarly inspired by French originals and improved pinfire breechloaders became the new type of gun which by 1857–1858 every fashionable British prince and titled gentleman wanted to have. EC Hodges continued to make a good living as a specialist independent maker of breechloading actions commissioned by leading gunmakers such as Boss, Lancaster, Egg, Grant, Atkin, Rigby, Dickson, Purdey, Woodward, Army and Navy, and many others.

After Casimir's death in 1852, his son Eugene continued to market the pinfire design with great success. It became increasingly popular in Europe and large numbers of rifles, shotguns, and revolvers (often called Lefaucheux guns after their inventor whoever the maker was), were manufactured from the mid-1850s until the late 1890s. They were quicker and easier to load than percussion weapons with loose black powder, percussion caps and bullet; and they were also much more likely to fire reliably when wet. Pinfire cartridges were available in a large number of sizes for various types of weapon.

While pinfire rifles and shotguns began to decline in use from the early 1860s onward, after the introduction of mass-produced centerfire rifle and shotgun cartridges, pinfire revolvers in particular became very successful and widespread, being adopted by the armies of France, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, Sweden, and others. They were also widely used during the American Civil War, although sometimes despised because of their low-power compared to more common percussion revolvers made by gun manufacturers such as Colt and Smith & Wesson. Some navies also adopted them for "sea service", these examples were often being made out of brass which is largely unaffected by the corrosion, caused by the salt in a maritime environment.

Pinfire became obsolete once reliable rimfire and centerfire cartridges became available because without a pin which needed aligning in the slot in the chamber wall they were quicker to load. They were also safer because they had no protruding pin which could cause the ammunition to accidentally detonate during rough handling, particularly of loose ammunition.

American manufacturers

 * Ethan Allen & Co. of Worcester, Massachusetts
 * Allen & Wheelock of Worcester, Massachusetts
 * C.D. Leet & Co. of Springfield, Massachusetts
 * C. Sharps & Co. of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania
 * Union Metallic Cartridge Company of Bridgeport, Connecticut
 * William Tibbals of South Coventry, Connecticut

British manufacturers

 * Eley Brothers of London
 * Kynoch & Co. of Birmingham

Current status
Although pinfire revolver, rifle, and shotgun cartridges are technically obsolete, as pinfire guns have not been made in large numbers since the early 20th century, enthusiasts of vintage weaponry often make pinfire cartridges from modern materials and shoot their old guns. Some modern novelty miniature pinfire pistols are manufactured in calibers as small as 2 to 3 millimeters (.0787 to .118 inches) in diameter. Although not practical weapons, they use pinfire ammunition because the caliber is too small for centerfire or rimfire. Antique pinfire firearms and cartridges are available on the collector market and modern reloading kits exist which contain specialized cartridges which can be hand loaded, though the process is far more complex than loading rimfire or centerfire cartridges.

title: Pinfire cartridge


text:
Richard Proenneke

Richard Louis Proenneke (May 4, 1916 – April 20, 2003) was an American self-educated naturalist, conservationist, writer, and wildlife photographer who, from the age of about 51, lived alone for nearly thirty years (1968–1998) in the mountains of Alaska in a log cabin that he constructed by hand near the shore of Twin Lakes. Proenneke hunted, fished, raised and gathered much of his own food, and also had supplies flown in occasionally. He documented his activities in journals and on film, and also recorded valuable meteorological and natural data. The journals and film were later used by others to write books and produce documentaries about his time in the wilderness.

Proenneke bequeathed his cabin to the National Park Service upon his death and it was included in the National Register of Historic Places four years later. The cabin is a popular attraction of Lake Clark National Park.

Early life
Proenneke's father, William Christian Proenneke (1880–1972), served in World War I, and made his living as a house painter, carpenter and well driller. His mother, Laura (née Bonn) (1884–1966) was a homemaker and gardener. His parents married in December 1909 and had three daughters and four sons: Robert, Helen, Lorene, Richard (Dick), Florence, Paul, and Raymond (Jake). The year of Proenneke's birth is often given as 1917, but social security and census records note Richard Louis Proenneke was born in Primrose, Harrison Township, Lee County, Iowa, on May 4, 1916.

Proenneke completed primary school in Primrose, but left high school after two years because he did not enjoy it. Until 1939, he worked in proximity to Primrose driving tractors, working with farm equipment, and doing typical chores Iowa family farms required at the time. He also admired motorcycles and obtained a Harley Davidson as a teen.

Naval career
Proenneke enlisted in the United States Navy the day after the attack on Pearl Harbor and served as a carpenter. He spent almost two years at Pearl Harbor and was later stationed in San Francisco waiting for a new ship assignment. After hiking on a mountain near San Francisco he contracted rheumatic fever and was hospitalized at Norco Naval Hospital for six months. During his convalescence the war ended and he was given a medical discharge from the Navy in 1945. According to one of his biographers and friend, Sam Keith, the illness was very revealing for Proenneke, who decided to devote the rest of his life to the strength and health of his body.

Later career
Following his discharge from the Navy, Proenneke went to school to become a diesel mechanic. The combination of his high intelligence, adaptability, and strong work ethic helped him become a skilled technician. Though adept at his trade, Proenneke eventually yielded to his love of nature and moved to Oregon to work at a sheep ranch. He moved to Shuyak Island, Alaska, in 1950.

For several years, he worked as a heavy equipment operator and repairman on the Naval Air Station at Kodiak. Proenneke spent the next several years working throughout Alaska as both a salmon fisherman and diesel technician. He worked for the Fish and Wildlife Service at King Salmon on the Alaska Peninsula. His skills as a technician were well-known and sought after, and he was able to save for retirement.

Twin Lakes cabin
On May 21, 1968, Proenneke arrived at his new place of retirement at Twin Lakes. Beforehand, he made arrangements to use a cabin on Upper Twin Lake owned by retired Navy Captain Spike Carrithers and his wife Hope of Kodiak (in whose care he had left his camper). This cabin was well-situated on the lake and close to the site that Proenneke chose for the construction of his own cabin.

Proenneke's cabin is handmade and is notable for its fine craftsmanship as a result of his carpentry and woodworking skills; he also made 8mm films covering its construction. Most of the structure and the furnishings are made from materials in and around the site, from the gravel taken from the lake bed to create the cabin's base, to the trees he selected, cut down, and then hand-cut with interlocking joints to create the walls and roof rafter framing. The fireplace and flue were made from stones he dug from around the site and mortared in place to create the chimney and hearth. He used metal containers for food storage: one-gallon cans were cut into basin shapes and buried below the frost line. This ensured that fruit and perishables could be stored for prolonged periods in the cool earth yet still be accessible when the winter months froze the ground above them. Proenneke's friend, bush pilot and missionary Leon Reid "Babe" Alsworth, returned periodically by seaplane or ski-plane to bring mail, food and orders that Proenneke placed through him to Sears.

Proenneke remained at Twin Lakes for the next sixteen months, after which he briefly went home to visit relatives and secure more supplies. He returned to Twin Lakes the following spring and remained there for most of the next thirty years, traveling to the contiguous United States only occasionally to visit his family. He made a film record of his solitary life, which was later re-edited and made into the documentary Alone in the Wilderness. In 2011 a sequel was produced after enough footage for at least two more programs was discovered. Alone in the Wilderness: Part 2 premiered on December 2, 2011.

Proenneke's cabin was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 2007. The site is a popular attraction for many who want to personally experience parts of Proenneke's life and values.

Death and legacy
In 1999, at age 83, Proenneke left his cabin and moved to Hemet, California, where he lived the remainder of his life with his brother Raymond "Jake" Proenneke. He died of a stroke on April 20, 2003, at the age of 86. He willed his cabin to the National Park Service, and it remains a popular visitor attraction in the still-remote Twin Lakes region of Lake Clark National Park.

Sam Keith, who came to know Proenneke at the Kodiak Naval Station and went on numerous hunting and fishing trips with him, suggested that Proenneke's journals might be the basis for a good book. In 1973, Keith published the book One Man's Wilderness: An Alaskan Odyssey, based on Proenneke's journals and photography. Proenneke however alleged that Keith had "changed some things" to embellish the story, such as writing that Proenneke had assumed a role as King of Bears and wielded power over them. After years in print it was reissued in a new format in 1999, winning that year's National Outdoor Book Award (NOBA). A hardcover "commemorative edition", celebrating the fiftieth anniversary of the publication of One Man's Wilderness, was published by Alaska Northwest Books in 2013. In 2003, some of the copyrighted text from the book and some of Proenneke's film were used with permission in the documentary Alone in the Wilderness, which began appearing on U.S. Public Television. It follows Proenneke's life as he builds the cabin from the surrounding natural resources and includes his film footage and narration of wildlife, weather, and the natural scenery while he goes about his daily routine over the course of the winter months.

In 2005, the National Park Service and the Alaska Natural History Association published More Readings From One Man's Wilderness, another volume of Proenneke's journal entries. The book, edited by John Branson, a longtime Lake Clark National Park employee and friend of Proenneke, covers the years when the park was established. Proenneke had a very close relationship with the Park Service, assisting them in filming sensitive areas and notifying them if poachers were in the area.

The Early Years: The Journals of Richard L. Proenneke 1967–1973 was published by Alaska Geographic in 2010. As with More Readings From One Man's Wilderness, the volume is edited by John Branson. This collection of journals covers Proennekes' first years at Twin Lakes, including the construction of his cabin and cache. The journal entries overlap those in Sam Keith's edited collection of some of Proenneke's journals, One Man's Wilderness: An Alaskan Odyssey. But unlike that book—in which Keith frequently modified Proenneke's writing style—The Early Years presents Proenneke's journals with minimal or no modification.

In 2017, a Richard Proenneke museum exhibit was opened at the Donnellson Public Library in Donnellson, Iowa, near Proenneke's hometown of Primrose. The exhibit features a replica of Proenneke's cabin, some of his writings, and other artifacts.

In 2016 and 2018, respectively, A life in Full Stride: The Journals of Richard L. Proenneke 1981-1985 and Your Life here is an Inspiration: The Journals of Richard L. Proenneke 1986–1991 were published. In 2020, the fifth and final collection of Proenneke's journals, Reaching the End of the Trail: The Journals of Richard L. Proenneke 1992–2000 was published. These three final collections were published by the Friends of Donnellson Public Library, The Richard Proenneke Museum, and were edited by John Branson.

title: Richard Proenneke


text:
Lefktra

Lefktra (Λεύκτρα, ) is a village in the regional unit of Boeotia, Greece, and a part of the municipality of Thebes. Before 1915, its name was Parapoungia (Παραπούγγια). Lefktra is located in the foothills of Mount Kithairon at 353 meters average elevation. The population of Lefktra is 779 people (2021 census). Thebes is sixteen kilometers away and Athens 70 km away, via the old national road. There are bus lines from Thebes to Lefktra and vice versa daily, and from Athens to Lefktra at the weekends. Residents' main occupations are agriculture and stockbreeding. Livadostra and Koromili beaches are ten minutes away by car.

Between 1912 and 1997 Lefktra was an independent community (an independent municipality after 1989). In 1997, at the Kapodistrias reform, it was merged into the municipality Plataies, along with the communities Melissochori, Loutoufi and Kaparelli. In 2010, at the Kallikratis reform, Plataies was merged into the municipality of Thebes.

Etymology
Lefktra is named after the ancient village of Leuctra (Λεῦκτρα, ) in ancient Boeotia, seven miles southwest of Thebes.

Defeat of Sparta
The Battle of Leuctra (371 BC) was fought in the vicinity of ancient Leuctra, in which the Thebans under Epaminondas defeated the Spartans, ending the Spartan hegemony. Following their victory, the Thebans became a new power within the Hellenic world, until the rise of Macedonia. The base of Theban Tropaion (Trophy) tower, erected at the battle site circa 371BC.38.2647°N, 23.174°W.

title: Lefktra


text:
Adam RA-14 Loisirs

The RA-14 Loisirs was a French two-seat high-wing light touring aircraft designed by Roger Adam shortly after World War II.

Design and production
The Loisirs ("Leisure") was designed in May 1945 by Roger Adam and built by Etablissements Aeronautiques R. Adam. It was a tube, wood and fabric two-seater suitable for amateur construction. It was a high-wing braced monoplane with a fixed tail-wheel undercarriage. The seats were positioned side-by-side.

The company sold plans and manufactured parts for the aircraft which could be fitted with a range of engines of between 65 and 80 hp. These included the Régnier 4D, Continental A65, Continental A75 and Continental C90 engines.

Variants
The design rights were sold in 1957 to the Maranda Aircraft Company of Canada who sold plans for amateur construction of the RA14BM1 Loisirs as the Falconar AMF-S14. More than 30 examples were built in North America.

 * Adam RA-14 Loisirs
 * Falconar AMF-S14
 * Homebuilt variant
 * Homebuilt variant

 * RA-14 SL "Super Loisirs"
 * modified wing and tail with trim tabs

Survivors
Of the French production of 40 Loisirs, 17 were active in 1965 and five were still flying in the country in 2001.

title: Adam RA-14 Loisirs


text:
Talk:German Unity Day

Abolish holiday?
A nearly traditional discussion in media and politics is to give up the German Unity Day and make it a normal workday for economic reasons. This discussion is only made up to get noticed by the media. No real steps where ever taken to abandon the Unity day.

October 3 and Munich Oktoberfest
An influence has the German Unity Day on the Oktoberfest which is now running two weeks, but if October 3 is Monday it is prolonged one day.

Flags and parades
Unlike in most other countries the flags on private houses, military parades and fire works are not common on this day in germany.

--Stone

 * I am sorry I can not agree, matteroffactly it was Tuesday this year. I can also see no direct connection between the Day Of Unity and the Munich Oktoberfest.

 * However, I would like to have an editor added this from your comment:

 * Unlike in most other countries the flags on private houses, military parades and fire works are not common on this day in germany.

 * And I would like to add: Instead it is common to broadcast on public TV movies and documentaries about the GDR/BRD history of the two formerly divided states. --Alwin, not logged in

 * from Oktoberfest:

 * The event usually takes place during the 16 days up to and including the first Sunday in October, but if this day is the 1st or 2nd then the festival will go on until the October 3rd (German Unity Day). Thus, the festival is 17 days when the 1st Sunday is October 2nd and 18 days when it is October 1st.
 * -- 80.156.42.129 12:07, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

Original Unification
I'm curious do they have a day for when the various German states like Prussia and Bavaria were united? Jamhaw 20:26, 3 October 2007 (UTC)jamhaw
 * No, we don't195.128.250.88 (talk) 21:30, 3 October 2008 (UTC)
 * That would be the Empire Foundation day, 18 January (of 1871), though that wasn't the formal unification, but the proclaiming of the title Emperor for William I (the German Empire had been a Federation for a few months before, I believe since December 1st or something), which however functions as a symbol to this uniting procedure. Yet 18 January happened to be the Crowning Day of Prussia's first king Frederick I and William I, more proud of his Prussian heritage than of his new position, didn't want a Prussian holiday to be "spent", so it was somewhat forgotten even in Imperial times and the celebrations were mostly held on the Sedan Victory Day (2 September (of 1870)), which we won't celebrate any more due to Franco-German friendship. --217.189.243.206 (talk) 14:30, 5 May 2010 (UTC)

First sentence - correction
" It commemorates the anniversary of German reunification in 1990, when the goal of a unity of Germany that originated in the middle of the 19th century, was fulfilled. "

Maybe add an "again" or some word that reflects the fact that german unity was already achieved in 1871, this way it sounds like it was fulfilled for the first time in history.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.15.173.250 (talk) 09:29, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

That sentence needs to be changed altogether since it is factually wrong. There was no "reunification", neither in name nor in fact. The GDR officially desolved and its territory joined the FRG. The former chancellor Kohl scolded politicians on all sides multiple times, even yelling at them, for calling it a reunification and fiercly rejected any attempts to achieve any such thing. Not then, not ever. The reason being that Germany intentionally does not have a constitution, it has a "Grundgesetz". Upon reunification, an article would have been triggered, that would have forced said Grundgesetz (that was written and voted upon by only the West of Germany) to be retired and the nation in unity was to give itself a proper constitution for all German people. The Grundgesetz was supposed to be temporary in nature. The new constition was meant to be written and voted upon by all German citizens in West AND East. Chancellor Kohl, however, violently rejecetd the idea of having people in the East of Germany involved in any such process and denied them any right of having equal say in the process as a whole. He also rejected more symbolic attempts like finding a common flag or common national anthem, to the point where Kohl according to eye-witnesses stormed out of the negotiations yelling and stomping his feet. Instead Kohl constructed a unification of territory only, designed explicitely to not trigger the article. This act was meant to reflect the idea that the West of Germany won and the East of Germany lost. The corresponding article of the Grundgesetz, asking for a common constitution, was later removed. The fact that there never was a "reunification" was incredibly important to the former chancellor, and it is incredibly important to understand how and why there was resentment on both sides in the decades that followed, as the West was de facto treating the East like a defeated country in many regards. 213.61.141.198 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 09:24, 3 October 2020 (UTC)

Reference-situation taken care of - request removal of template
I've added several references, mainly taken from the German article. As I do not want to ninja-remove the template, I hereby formally request the removal of the respective banner-template. This will also FINALLY make it possible for German Unity Day being rightfully mentioned in the "On This Day" box on the Main Page (after YEARS of absence)... --37ophiuchi (talk) 20:30, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

 * I removed it before I saw the request ;) - Thanks for your improvements! --Gerda Arendt (talk) 20:39, 3 October 2014 (UTC)

Attended Bürgerfest
left hungry and disappointed — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.170.232.235 (talk) 09:58, 27 June 2017 (UTC)

Alternate possibly and discussed Date of German Unity Day

 * 20. July, 6% approval
 * 3. October, 30% approval
 * 17. June, 11% approval
 * 9. November, 62% approval
 * Source: https://lisa.gerda-henkel-stiftung.de/welches_datum_eignet_sich_fuer_den_deutschen_nationalfeiertag_am_besten?nav_id=963 --11:00, 17 June 2018 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.213.31.228 (talk)

title: Talk:German Unity Day


text:
User:Ifykas

the river between

title: User:Ifykas


text:
User talk:Lauther~enwiki

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

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 * Try the Tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the test area.
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Good luck!

[[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]]

P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Lauther. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Lauther~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 01:05, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 15:20, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Lauther~enwiki


text:
User talk:Ruby Queen

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * Try the Tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the test area.
 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Remember Neutral point of view
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck!

[[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]]

P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).

title: User talk:Ruby Queen


text:
Unani medicine

Unani or Yunani medicine (Urdu: طب یونانی tibb yūnānī ) is Perso-Arabic traditional medicine as practiced in Muslim culture in South Asia and modern day Central Asia. Unani medicine is pseudoscientific. The Indian Medical Association describes Unani practitioners who claim to practice medicine as quacks.

The term Yūnānī means 'Greek', referring to the fact that the Perso-Arabic system of medicine was based on the teachings of the Greek physicians Hippocrates and Galen.

The Hellenistic origin of Unani medicine is still visible in its being based on the classical four humours: phlegm (balgham), blood (dam), yellow bile (ṣafrā) and black bile (saudā'), but it has also been influenced by Indian and Chinese traditional systems.

History
Arab and Persian elaborations upon the Greek system of medicine by figures like Ibn Sina and al-Razi influenced the early development of Unani.

Unani medicine interacted with Indian Buddhist medicine at the time of Alexander's invasion of India. There was a great exchange of knowledge at that time which is visible from the similarity of the basic conceptual frames of the two systems. The medical tradition of medieval Islam was introduced to India by the 12th century with the establishment of the Delhi Sultanate and it took its own course of development during the Mughal Empire, influenced by Indian medical teachings of Sushruta and Charaka. Alauddin Khalji (d. 1316) had several eminent physicians (Hakims) at his royal courts. This royal patronage led to the development of Unani in India, and also the creation of Unani literature.

Education and recognition
There are several Indian universities devoted to Unani medicine, in addition to universities that teach traditional Indian medical practices in general. Undergraduate degrees awarded for completing an Unani program include the Bachelor of Unani Medicine and Surgery, Bachelor of Unani Tib and Surgery, and Bachelor of Unani Medicine with Modern Medicine and Surgery degrees. A small number of universities offer post-graduate degrees in Unani medicine.

The Central Council of Indian Medicine (CCIM), a statutory body established in 1971 under the Department of Ayurveda, Yoga and Naturopathy, Unani, Siddha and Homoeopathy (AYUSH), monitors higher education in areas of Indian medicine including Ayurveda, Unani, and other traditional medical systems. Another subdivision of AYUSH, the Central Council for Research in Unani Medicine (CCRUM), aids and co-ordinates scientific research in the Unani system of medicine through a network of 22 nationwide research institutes and units.

To fight biopiracy and unethical patents, the Government of India set up the Traditional Knowledge Digital Library in 2001 as repository of formulations used in Indian traditional medicine, including 98,700 Unani formulations.

In 1990, the total number of hakims or tabibs (practitioners of Unani medicine) in Pakistan was 51,883. The government of Pakistan's National Council for Tibb (NCT) is responsible for developing the curriculum of Unani courses and registering practitioners of the medicine. Various private foundations devote themselves to the research and production of Unani medicines, including the Hamdard Foundation, which also runs an Unani research institution. The Qarshi Foundation runs a similar institution, Qarshi University. The programs are accredited by Higher Education Commission, Pakistan Medical and Dental Council, and the Pakistan Pharmacy Council.

Criticism and safety issues
Some medicines traditionally used by Unani practitioners are known to be poisonous.

The Indian Journal of Pharmacology notes:
 * According to WHO, "Pharmacovigilance activities are done to monitor detection, assessment, understanding and prevention of any obnoxious adverse reactions to drugs at therapeutic concentration that is used or is intended to be used to modify or explore physiological system or pathological states for the benefit of recipient."
 * These drugs may be any substance or product including herbs, minerals, etc. for animals and human beings and can even be that prescribed by practitioners of Unani or Ayurvedic system of medicine. In recent days, awareness has been created related to safety and adverse drug reaction monitoring of herbal drugs including Unani drugs.

title: Unani medicine


text:
Talk:Battle of Gonzales

Aren’t Texans and Mexicans the same people here?
In the recounting of the event, particularly in the context and prelude, the parties involved are repeatedly referred to as “Mexicans” and “Texans,” or at least, the governmental/military parties are referred to as “the Mexicans” as a way to differentiate them from the settlers/civilians. Unless I’m mistaken, all people living in this area at this time would be Mexicans, as this was still part of Mexico. So at the time, these Texans were also Mexicans.

It leads to a very US-centric reading and colors the reader’s understanding of the events pretty severely. I’m no history buff though, so maybe I missed something? 2601:152:4000:7CF0:81C4:889C:201D:4F77 (talk) 09:25, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Texan is not used at all in the article; the term used here is texian, which is what the group identified itself as, and what all of the sources use. Kuru   (talk)  23:17, 6 July 2022 (UTC)

Flag
Shouldn’t the flag used for Texians for this battle be the “come and take it” flag? The blue flag with the star was not adopted by Texas until after the war. Friedbyrd (talk) 19:41, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Concur; it's just the wrong flag for the time period. Not clear on the come and take it version - certainly utilized in some part, but not sure if it is needed. Sam Kuru (talk) 23:21, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Battle of Gonzales


text:
User talk:Bobbrownisagayfaggot

Hi there, could you please change your username at Changing username. It would be preferred if you could do this voluntarily, otherwise a name change will most likely be forced on to your account. -- Chuq 07:05, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Bobbrownisagayfaggot


text:
Fumi Hirano

Fumi Hirano (平野 文) is a Japanese actress, voice actress, singer and essayist who voiced Lum in the anime series Urusei Yatsura.

Fumi attended Tamagawa University in Machida, Tokyo where she graduated with a degree in Theatre from the Department of Fine Arts in the College of Humanities.

Television animation

 * Anime Himitsu no Hanazono (Camilla)
 * Anime Sanjūshi (Milady)
 * Blue Comet SPT Layzner (Simone)
 * Blue Period (Masako Saeki)
 * Cat's Eye (Seira Nakamori)
 * Dark Gathering (Touka Awamiya)
 *  Detective Conan  (Rumi Wakasa)
 * Fly Me to the Moon (Tokiko Tsukuyomi)
 * Gate: Jieitai Kano Chi nite, Kaku Tatakaeri (Mimoza)
 * Kikōkai Garian (Hirumuka)
 * Infinite Stratos (Squall Meusel)
 * Kiratto Pri☆Chan (Martha Moegi)
 * Love Live! (Eli's grandmother)
 * Mission Outer Space Srungle (Sexy, Dolly)
 * Mobile Suit Gundam SEED (Aisha in Special Edition)
 * One Piece (Mother Carmel)
 * Pokémon (Drasna)
 * Platinum End (Muni)
 * Pro Golfer Saru (Benihachi)
 * Rin-ne (Sakura's mother)
 * Rumiko Takahashi Anthology (Kanna)
 * Stop!! Hibari-kun! (Tsugumi Ōzora)
 * Star Twinkle PreCure (Kaka)
 * The Kabocha Wine (Kaori Sawada)
 * Tokyo Ravens (Miyo Kurahashi)
 * ''Tsuritama (Kate)
 * Urusei Yatsura (1981) (Lum)
 * Urusei Yatsura (2022) (Lum's mom)
 * The Weakest Tamer Began a Journey to Pick Up Trash (2024) (Ruba)

Theatrical animation

 * The Garden of Words (Takao's Mother)
 * Magical Taruruuto-kun
 * Detective Conan: The Private Eyes' Requiem (Reiko Shimizu)
 * Urusei Yatsura series (Lum)
 * Dareka no Manazashi (Narrator)

Original video animation (OVA)

 * Ariel (Simone Trefan)
 * Legend of the Galactic Heroes (Dominique Saint-Pierre)
 * MD Geist (Vaiya in the Director's Cut)
 * Outlanders (Kahm)
 * Shōchū-hai Lemon Love 30s Ame ni Nurete mo
 * Urusei Yatsura (Lum)
 * Is This a Zombie? (Eucliwood Hellscythe)

Video games

 * Injustice: Gods Among Us (Catwoman)
 * Tactics Ogre: Reborn (Deneb Rove)

Live action

 * The Red Spectacles (1987) (Airport announcer)

Dubbing

 * Blue Jasmine, Ginger (Sally Hawkins)
 * Blue Steel, Megan Turner (Jamie Lee Curtis)
 * ER, Elaine Nichols (Rebecca De Mornay)
 * Goodfellas, Karen Hill (Lorraine Bracco)
 * Private School (1984 Fuji TV edition), Jordan Leigh-Jensen (Betsy Russell)
 * Superman III (1985 TV Asahi edition), Lois Lane (Margot Kidder)

title: Fumi Hirano


text: User:Matahimic

title: User:Matahimic


text:
Ilium

Ilium or Ileum may refer to:

Places and jurisdictions

 * Ilion (Asia Minor), former name of Troy
 * Ilium (Epirus), an ancient city in Epirus, Greece
 * Ilium, ancient name of Cestria (Epirus), an ancient city in Epirus, Greece
 * Ilium Building, a building in Troy, New York, United States

Anatomy

 * Ilium (bone), part of the hip bone in the pelvis
 * Ileum, the third and final part of the small intestine

Art and entertainment

 * Ileum (band), a grunge rock band from The Netherlands
 * Ilium (band), a metal band from Australia
 * Ilium (novel), a 2003 novel by Dan Simmons
 * Ilium (Kurt Vonnegut), a fictional New York town in many of Kurt Vonnegut's novels
 * Illium, a fictional location in the video game Mass Effect 2

Other uses

 * Camp Ilium, a YMCA camp

title: Ilium