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No. 16 Squadron RAF

Number 16 Squadron Royal Air Force, nicknamed 'the Saints', is a flying squadron of the Royal Air Force (RAF) who currently provide elementary flying training (EFT) with the Grob Tutor T1, presently based at RAF Wittering, an RAF airbase in Cambridgeshire, England.

It originally formed as a squadron of the Royal Flying Corps (RFC) on February 10, 1915, at Saint-Omer, France, to carry out a mixture of offensive patrolling and reconnaissance, and was disbanded in 1919 with the end of the First World War. The squadron reformed as part of the recently formed Royal Air Force (RAF) on April 1, 1924, and again took on a reconnaissance role which it continued throughout the Second World War. Post-war, the squadron was disbanded and reformed several times, and was converted to a bomber squadron. Equipped with the Tornado GR1 from 1984, the squadron took part in the Gulf War in 1990. It was again disbanded in September 1991, before reforming in November 1991 as the operational conversion unit (OCU) for the Jaguar. With the Jaguar's imminent withdrawal from service, the squadron disbanded once more in 2005. No. 16 Squadron reformed again and took on its current role on October 1, 2008.

Early years
The squadron was formed at Saint-Omer, France on February 10, 1915, from elements of Numbers. 2, 6, and 9 Squadrons. It immediately began fighting in the First World War under Hugh Dowding, and for some time was based at the aerodrome at the Beaupré-sur-la-Lys Abbey in La Gorgue. For the rest of the Great War, the 'Saints' were deployed throughout Northern France and operated a mixture of aircraft including Bleriot XI, Martinsyde S.1 and Royal Aircraft Factory B.E.2c on offensive patrol and tactical reconnaissance duties. Disbandment occurred on New Year's Eve 1919.

In September 1915, Duncan Grinnell-Milne joined the squadron as a junior pilot, and later (1933) published an account of his time in the squadron. His portrait of Dowding (who when the book was originally published had not then attained his later fame) is unflattering.

The squadron was reformed at Old Sarum in Wiltshire in the tactical reconnaissance role on April 1, 1924. Initially, it operated the Bristol Fighter, but this was replaced by the Atlas in January 1931, and by the Audax in December 1933.

Second World War
In May 1938, the Westland Lysander arrived, and the Squadron continued in its tactical role in wartime France from April 1940. In May 1940, it returned to England and conducted roving sea patrols searching for both downed aircrew and enemy forces.

From April 1942, 16 Squadron was re-equipped with the Allison-engined North American Mustang I for fighter sweeps and reconnaissance duties over France from its base at RAF Weston Zoyland in Somerset. The Spitfire Mk.V took over this role from September 1943. On June 2, 1943, the Squadron became part of the Strategic Reconnaissance Wing of the 2nd Tactical Air Force (2TAF) as a high-altitude photo reconnaissance unit with Spitfire PR Mk.IXs based at Hartford Bridge. In the build-up to D Day, No 16 supplied photographs instrumental to the planning of the Allied landings.

Cold War (1946–1991)
No. 16 Squadron was disbanded at RAF Celle on April 1, 1946 but reformed at RAF Fassberg the same day, and took the 24 cylinder H-engined Hawker Tempest Mk.V on charge, until converting to the radial-engined Mk.II on 7 June 1946. On December 7, 1948, the squadron took delivery of its first jet engined aircraft, the de Havilland Vampire FB.5, which subsequently gave way to the de Havilland Venom FB.1 in November 1954 until disbandment at Celle once more on June 1, 1957.

As East-West relations cooled, the Squadron reformed at RAF Laarbruch in West Germany on March 1, 1958. No. 16 Squadron maintained a permanent readiness state, tasked with meeting the Soviet threat, in the expected conventional phase and with the use of tactical nuclear weapons. The squadron was re-quipped with the Canberra B(I).8 armed with the WE.177, a dual-key free-fall nuclear bomb.

The Canberra gave way to the Buccaneer S.2B on October 16, 1972. The squadron's twelve Buccaneers were equipped with a variety of conventional weapons and eighteen British WE.177 nuclear bombs. Although Buccaneers could carry two WE.177 weapons, after taking into account attrition in the conventional phase of a high-intensity European war, and after withholding some aircraft in reserve, RAF planners expected that squadron strength remaining would still be sufficient to deliver the nuclear weapons stockpile. The Buccaneer distinguished itself in many bombing exercises; among its victories included the winning of the Salmond Trophy in 1978 and 1979.

The squadron briefly expanded in 1983-1984, absorbing some aircraft and personnel from its sister 15 Squadron which had converted to the Panavia Tornado GR1. 16 Squadron followed in late 1984 following the 'designate' process where a new 16 Squadron 'formed up' at RAF Honington, before moving to Laarbruch and assuming the squadron standard from the Buccaneer unit which had continued to operate throughout. Despite the change of aircraft, the squadron's role remained unchanged in countering a Soviet threat in Europe with conventional weapons and eighteen WE.177 nuclear bombs. As with the Buccaneer, there was a ratio of 1.5 weapons per aircraft.

Ahead of Operation GRANBY in 1990 and the first Gulf War, the squadron deployed to Tabuk airbase. No. 16 was the lead squadron in the deployment, with No. 20 and crews from other Tornado GR1 squadrons. The 'Tabuk Force' used JP233s and 1,000 lb bombs on low-level sorties against Iraqi airfields and other targets. Some of the Squadron's aircraft later formed a TIALD flight that conducted accurate medium-level bombing.

Following hostilities, the Squadron disbanded on September 11, 1991.

SEPECAT Jaguar (1991–2005)
On November 1, 1991, the Squadron reformed at RAF Lossiemouth as No. 16(Reserve) Squadron, a reserve squadron and an operational conversion unit (OCU), replacing and taking over the aircraft and weapons of No. 226 OCU, training and converting new pilots for the SEPECAT Jaguar. Although no longer a front-line operational squadron, as a reserve, or shadow squadron, its twelve aircraft were equipped with conventional weapons and eight WE.177 nuclear weapons for use in a high-intensity European war, and it remained assigned to SACEUR for that purpose.

Although a non-operational squadron, its pilots were still involved in Operation DENY FLIGHT and Operation NORTHERN WATCH. The squadron moved to RAF Coltishall in Norfolk, on 21 July 2000, thus consolidating the RAF's entire Jaguar force at one airbase, joining numbers 6, 41, and 54 squadrons.

In December 2003, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) announced with the Delivering Security in a Changing World defence review, RAF Coltishall would close in 2007, and the recently upgraded Jaguar fleet would be retired early. This led to the disbandment of No. 16 Squadron on March 11, 2005 as the Jaguar approached retirement. The Squadron Standard was laid up in Notre-Dame Cathedral Saint-Omer, France on 20 March 2005.

Elementary flying training (2008–present)
On October 1, 2008, the Squadron was reformed at RAF Cranwell, Lincolnshire, as part of No. 22 Group, operating the Grob Tutor T1. No. 16(R) Squadron continues its training role by instructing new Royal Air Force (RAF) pilots in elementary flying training (EFT) as part of No.1 Elementary Flying Training School (1EFTS). From 2005 to 2008, the unit was previously known as 1 Squadron, 1 EFTS following a restructuring of the RAF's pilot training. 16(R) Squadron instructs the RAF's new pilots along with some pilots from overseas foreign militaries. The Squadrons' role is to provide pilots to the more advanced flying training courses on their way to earning the coveted aircrew brevet, or pilot 'wings', prior to joining a front line squadron or unit. In early 2008, Prince William took his first steps on his aviation career at No. 16 Squadron's site, flying his first solo sortie in Tutor G-BYXN;  his father was also taught to fly at RAF Cranwell in 1971.

In the first half of 2015, No. 16(R) Squadron, along with No. 115(R) Squadron relocated to RAF Wittering, Cambridgeshire, which saw flying return to the base for the first time since 2010.

Aircraft operated
Aircraft operated included:

Commanding officers
Commanding officers included:

Stations
Stations included:

title: No. 16 Squadron RAF


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/LGBTTTIQQA*

LGBTTTIQQA* was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. 10 votes to delete, 1 of which would have accepted redirect. Postdlf 06:13, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

LGBTTTIQQA*
I'm all for parody but this is just lame. Non-notable. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 22:42, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:35, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. -- Shane King 00:31, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete -- DavidWBrooks 13:24, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: and its asterisk, too. Neologism/joke/parody.  Geogre 19:26, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. No Discernible legit reason for existence. at best a asterisk (subclass) to LGBT FatherStorm 19:31, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not in actual use. Joke or at best neologism. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 23:02, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. -- Hyacinth 16:55, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I have seen this before: from the kind of people who are trying to assert that LGBT is already too long and unwieldy when the word gay would suffice just nicely to cover everybody and why do we have to be all separate and stuff and why can't we all just be friends yadda yadda blah blah...the LGBT article even makes brief reference to this (albeit without the * ). So I'm with the delete. Bearcat 06:32, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Redir to LGBT or delete. D AVODD  [[User_talk:Davodd|« TALK »]] 09:39, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


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Talk:Christian Klien

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Talk:Pierre Levegh

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 07:50, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Plot at Père-Lachaise
Levegh is buried with his uncle in plot 249 at Cimetière du Père-Lachaise under the name "Velghe".Flanker235 (talk) 01:52, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

Name Pronunciation
Someone needs to edit the pronunciation of "Levegh" not only with a citation, but with the definitive pronunciation. The documentary "Deadliest Crash - 1995 Le Mans" on the Velocity channel in the U.S. has most of the people interviewed, including contemporary drives like Stirling Moss and the narrator, pronouncing his name "le-VAY". Only one person interviewed, that I noticed, pronounced his name "le-VECK". Agoodall (talk) 01:57, 15 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I've left a question at fr.wiki. They don't currently give one. Martinevans123 (talk) 12:25, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
 * In France, we use to say "le-VAY". --Cobra bubbles (talk) 07:35, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I think the IPA pronunciation should be added. Is a WP:RS required to support this? Martinevans123 (talk) 15:51, 13 March 2015 (UTC)

1951?
The infobox lists Levegh as "active" 1950-1951 and a last race in 1951. Since he died in a 1955 race, this makes no sense. Andyvphil (talk) 12:07, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
 * The box details seem to be only for the Formula One World Championship. So I assume that after 1951 he was actively racing, but not in that championship? Martinevans123 (talk) 12:11, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Yes, that's correct. DH85868993 (talk) 18:37, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Ideally, perhaps, there would be a separate entry, directly beneath his death, to show his years active in racing of all types? But I'm pretty sure the "Infobox F1 driver" can't cope with that? In fact he was also previously "active" in ice-hokey and tennis, although the article doesn't tell us when. (The fr:wiki article gives a little more detail). Martinevans123 (talk) 18:48, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pierre Levegh


text:
Microsystems International

Microsystems International Limited (MIL) was a telecommunications microelectronics company based in Ottawa, Ontario, Canada, founded in 1969. MIL was an early attempt to create a merchant semiconductor house by Nortel Networks (then Northern Electric).

MIL is historically important as the producers of one of the world's earliest microprocessors, the MIL MF7114, which was based on the design of the Intel 4004. MIL also produced a series of early microcomputers using this chip, including the MIL CPS-1, which may be the earliest example of a microcomputer system that was shipped in completed form, as opposed to a kit that had to be assembled. Several other upgraded models followed.

History
Electronic manufacturers were at that time forced to create custom integrated circuits due to the lack of industry standard ICs. MIL was an attempt to create a merchant company that could supply such standard devices as well as custom devices for Northern Electric products. Northern Electric entered the field partly at the urging of the Canadian federal government even though it had strong doubts of the viability of the company. MIL manufactured both bipolar and MOS semiconductor devices, including standard TTL digital logic components and linear products such as operational amplifiers, as well as a variety of memory components. In 1971, MIL became a second source for the Intel 1103 DRAM IC. The licensing fee paid by MIL to Intel meant that Intel could show a profit in 1971 for the first time in its history.

MIL was never able to show a profit and losses were exacerbated by the semiconductor market downturn in 1974. It was purchased and folded into Nortel's research arm Bell-Northern Research and later merged into Nortel. MIL was purchased and folded into Nortel's research arm Bell-Northern Research in 1974. The MIL fabrication facility continued to operate as the largest semiconductor fab in Canada until Nortel's bankruptcy in 2009.

Spinoffs
MIL's most lasting contribution is that it was the meeting place for the entrepreneurs Terry Matthews and Michael Cowpland. The pair left the company to found much of the high tech industry in Kanata, Ontario, Canada. They started Mitel together. Cowpland later started Corel. Matthews later started Newbridge Networks. Cowpland's boss at MIL cautioned him against leaving the security of a large company just a few months before MIL was wound up.

Another partnership formed at MIL was that of Dick Foss and Bob Harland who, on their return from the 1975 ISSCC conference where they had presented their paper on MIL's 4k DRAM, found that they were no longer employed. They started MOSAID initially as a memory design house and branched out into other related areas such as reverse engineering, EDA software, and memory test equipment manufacturing. The reverse engineering business was spun off in 1989 as Semiconductor Insights, now TechInsights.

title: Microsystems International


text:
Talk:Nigel Mansell

Trivia
As he grew up in Brum Mansell should be categorised as a Brummie, SqueakBox 17:44, August 19, 2005 (UTC)

Want to add the trivia that Mansell is now president of the IAM? -- Rog, 16-Jul-2006

 * I've moved the trivia section to the talk page for now, anything relevent can then be worked into the article.

 * "The Nigel Mansell World Of Racing", a Ferrari dealership and museum named after him, is in Woodbury, Devon. The museum contains memorabilia and a number of historical Formula One cars, as well as some of the actual cars that he drove to victory.

 * He appeared on the BBC TV show Top Gear, and set the fastest time around the Top Gear track as a "star in a reasonably priced car", beating current F1 driver Jenson Button's time as well as ex-F1 driver Damon Hill's time. This time has only since been beaten by the programme's driver, The Stig, who is much more experienced at the track layout having set 102 timed laps around the circuit.

 * Mansell is currently the president of the Institute of Advanced Motorists.

 * Nigel Mansell is a Special Constable with over 13 years service.

 * "An amazing race and one which was a joy to drive! I remember a few years ago when Nigel came over to Indy Cars and the late great Senna told me to watch out for Nigel's car control. Today I witnessed that first hand again and at times, I really thought he had crossed the limit but time and time again he managed to keep the car on the track - and get faster!", Emmerson Fittipaldi following the inaugural Grand Prix Masters.

 * Nigel is an Exeter City fan.

I'd say the World of Racing, IAM and the Special Constable can be worked back in with a source, the quote should go to Wikiquotes and the rest left out. Opinions? AlexJ 22:10, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, you're mainly right on them points, but if we could put a bit more in the GPMasters section, the quote could fit in there. If it can't fit it, I say keep the trivia section. Davnel03 08:22, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

The thing is though, Trivia is (from the Wikipedia page) "unimportant (or "trivial") items, especially of information." - if it's unimportant it shouldn't be in the article. I've found from putting articles through GA and FA processes that trivia sections don't go down well. I would like to get this article towards the GA & FA standards shortly so the information in trivia section needs incorporating into the article and the actual trivial facts removing. AlexJ 09:50, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Perhaps rename the Family subsection to Personal Life, where the Special Constable and IAM information would fit. I say stick the Top Gear bit straight in to the 2005 section (episode was broadcast 11/12/2005). Okay, it hardly equal to his other exploits but it's racing of sorts. As to the quote, I'll have to confess I'm not a disinterested party, as I put it in originally. I think if it got moved to Wikiquote, it'd get a bit lost, whereas it has value direct to this article.  Mansell's main claim to fame is the Senna-Prost-Mansell era in F1, and the quote is a nice insight from within that trio. It might even make a nice end point for the intro before it goes in to the year by year analysis. Oh, and I'm going to switch the GPM and CART results table, CART is historically the more significant series TarquinSidebottom 14:04, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

Correction
Why is the first thing in Jackie Stewart's article list him as "british" but this article says Mansell is "from england". Why not say he is British first, we are Scots only British when they win?

 * Firstly new comments go at the bottom & are signed at the end with 4 tildes ( ~ ). Second - I'm not sure I understand your complaint? Mansell's piece reads "Nigel Ernest James Mansell OBE (born August 8, 1953 in Upton-upon-Severn, Worcestershire) is a British racing driver from England" whilst Stewart reads "Sir John Young Stewart, OBE[2] (born 11 June 1939 in Milton, West Dunbartonshire), better known as Jackie Stewart, and nicknamed The Flying Scot, is a British former racing driver from Scotland." Both, per the guideline that their nationality is as it is listed on their racedrivers licence, are British drivers, with the country the come from listed after. AlexJ 10:49, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Pulled from CART section, maybe needs integration later in article
On 31st October, Mansell took part in the TOCA Shootout at Donington Park, driving a Ford Mondeo in front of a crowd of 90,000 people. He retired from the race after a heavy crash into a bridge parapet following a collision with Tiff Needell. The 120MPH accident left Mansell unconscious but he made a full recovery. He had also been scheduled to drive a Tuscan in the TVR Tuscan Challenge the same afternoon, but was forced to pull out due to the earlier crash.

Guroadrunner 23:56, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Where Mansell lives
Nigel Mansell actually lives in Jersey, Channel Islands - http://www.thisisjersey.com/code/showarticle.pl?ArticleID=000961 is the link you'll want to look at. He has also had several run-ins with locals... Due to the fact that his house is directly next to the beach, in certain situations when the tide is coming in, his property provides a route back on to land. Mr. Mansell takes objection to this and several "incidents" have occured when people have been trying to use it. Although this has appeared in the local gazzette, the Jersey Evening Post, I cannot find any references on-line. For the record, he's also an incredibly boring fart but has a very nice boat!

AGS —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.20.179.123 (talk) 17:39, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Williams reneging on deal
A claim like this needs a cite and an explanation. Please don't revert again without adding them. Kenhullett (talk) 01:38, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

What is 'CANC' ?
Under his GP Masters results there are multiple 'canc' entries, but 'canc' is not listed in the KEY. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.35.17.236 (talk) 13:34, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It means the race was cancelled - I'll have a think about the best way to make this clearer. DH85868993 (talk) 07:26, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

 * I've just included "CANC" as Event Cancelled on the key. Does this work for you? Britmax (talk) 02:24, 28 November 2008 (UTC)

TOCA Shootout, 1993?
The article should mention of his appearance in a Ford Mondeo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.86.128.220 (talk) 19:15, 20 June 2009 (UTC)

Video games
There were two video games endorsed by Mansell: Nigel Mansell's Grand Prix (1988) and Nigel Mansell's World Championship (1993). They deserve a mention, I suppose? 81.152.72.174 (talk) 21:25, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Yes, a brief mention. A sentence much like the one you've just written there, perhaps with the manufacturer's name mentioned too, if you know it. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:43, 30 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Now added with the software houses' names. It might be worth mentioning the specific computer platforms for which versions existed, but that's more research than I want to do right now. I do know that both appeared on the British ZX Spectrum. 81.152.72.174 (talk) 21:02, 31 July 2010 (UTC)

Most poles
The article says: "He holds the record for the most number of poles set in a single season." Now that record has been broken by Sebastian Vettel. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.156.214.3 (talk) 21:59, 8 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Mansell still holds the record (14, in 1992). Vettel has only scored 13 poles so far in 2011. DH85868993 (talk) 02:14, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

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Avoiding an edit war
please discuss here the addition to the article that Dosd has made and Ian has reverted, rather than continue to revert the change and then make it again. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 14:04, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * It's unsourced, POV and pejorative. WP:BLP requires its reversion. What's to discuss? Ian Dalziel (talk) 17:02, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * " Contentious material about living persons (or, in some cases, recently deceased) that is unsourced or poorly sourced—whether the material is negative, positive, neutral, or just questionable—should be removed immediately and without waiting for discussion.[1] " Ian Dalziel (talk) 17:27, 18 July 2018 (UTC)
 * You've made four reverts on this article in 48 hours and were close to breaking the three revert rule. I am bringing this to your attention here so that you don't find yourself at the edit warring notice board. Rather than rely on edit summaries to communicate with the other editor you should be discussing the matter here on the talk page where you can better explain to the newbie editor what the problem is. Having looked at all the edits, I am not sure myself what the problem is and I don't think you should be relying on the BLP exemption to the 3RR. I have similarly brought this to the attention of the other editor and I am glad to see you've reached out to them too. Curb Safe Charmer (talk) 20:36, 18 July 2018 (UTC)

Red Five
The article says 'Mansell was given the "Red 5" number on his car' in 1985 when he debuted with Williams. It is important to clarify that Mansell started that season with a white 5 on his car, same as his teammate Rosberg, and only at the Canadian GP the color changed to red; what I don't know is why did he change it. --Mg55 (talk) 13:37, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * It's always been my understanding that it was done to make it easier to distinguish the two Williams cars at speed, as Mansell and Rosberg's helmets looked similar from the front. This view is supported by this webpage and the fifth post in this forum discussion. Although the forum discussion also offers a few other suggestions. DH85868993 (talk) 21:37, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

Comments and questions
1. The image at the top right is not a good one because a white shade is partially blocking Nigel. I suggest changing it to a better image.

2. "He managed a best finish of third place, which he achieved five times during the four years, including Lotus's fifth race of the 1981 season, and only the seventh of Mansell's Formula One career."

I do not follow the last part of the sentence, the "seventh" ... my understanding is that Mansell finished third in 1981 (in Belgium) in his seventh race. If that is the case, I suggest to rephrase the sentence because it's fairly cryptic.

3. "As a result of the gestures" does not sound a great way to describe what Mansell did in the previous paragraph.

4. "The Japanese giant regarded dual World Champion Nelson Piquet as the team's number one driver (they were reportedly paying the bulk of Piquet's multimillion-dollar retainer) and were reportedly unhappy that the team's co-owner and Technical Director Patrick Head did not rein in Mansell during races and allowed him to take both points and wins from Piquet."

It's not clear what this means to me. Does it say that Piquet was racing and making most of the money but Mansell who raced less still managed to get points? If that's the case I suggest to rephrase it to make it clearer.

5. "Piquet's was a percentage driving policy which worked well in the ultra-competitive Williams-Honda"

What does being "a percentage driving policy" mean?

6. The "1990" section says "he announced he was retiring from the sport altogether at the end of the season." and "Mansell then announced his retirement from Formula One." The two are redundant.

7. "Subsequent appearances" is not an appropriate title since it includes various racing competitions and only BTCC. It should be changed to something like "Additional racing".

8. "According to the BBC, this was the first time a father has raced at Le Mans in the same car as his two sons."

Should that be "same car with his two sons"?

9. "For the 2010 Formula One season, the Sporting Regulations were changed so that a former driver sits on the stewards' panel. Mansell took this role at the 2010, 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 British Grands Prix. Also Monaco GP 2012, US GP 2013, Brazil GP 2015."

This paragraph should be under the F1 section.

ICE77 (talk) 04:46, 30 October 2023 (UTC)

"Our Nige" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Our_Nige&redirect=no Our Nige] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. Jalen Folf  (talk)  20:20, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nigel Mansell


text:
Talk:Felipe Massa

Length
This article is way too long for someone who is a minor celebrity for everyone but F1 fans. I mean seriously the article is almost as long as the one about Jesus Christ. A summary of every F1 race the guy has ever been in does not belong on a "comprehensive encyclopedia". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.109.151.197 (talk) 14:11, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

What a soft article
Everything in the 2008 section appears to be written with a pro-Massa bias. There is no reference to his remark that Sutil should have moved over for him in the pitlane, no mention of the widespread disagreement with Bourdais' penalty in Japan or the mild controversy about his aggressive move on Webber, or that Raikkonen has refused to publically support him towards the title but Alonso has. Anybody reading this without knowledge of F1 would gain a false opinion of his worth, both as a driver and as a man.--MartinUK (talk) 10:06, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Why don't you put some of this stuff in there then? You're becoming a pretty biased editor if you don't mind me saying, but there's nothing to stop you editing this article, and then everyone else can decide whether it's balanced or not. A false opinion of his worth as a man? You know him, do you? Bretonbanquet (talk) 10:47, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Why don't you go and talk about Hamilton's aggressive move on Webber at Monza? Or are you selective about aggressive overtaking moves on Mark Webber? Surely not. Moreover, Raikkonen said that he would do what the team tell him to do, which is about as much as anyone could expect him to say. Bretonbanquet (talk) 10:52, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Hamilton's move was aggressive, and risky to his race, but nowhere near as dangerous as Massa's. I'm no pro-Lewis fanatic, I feel that he's taken needless risks at the wrong times quite often and has lost his head on a couple of occasions. Fair point that I don't know Massa personally, but he doesn't come across too well in interviews.--MartinUK (talk) 12:54, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Motor racing is dangerous. And I take your point, but plenty of racing drivers come across badly in interviews - Raikkonen and Hamilton are cases in point. Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:27, 14 October 2008 (UTC)
 * It should be remembered we are here to document and not judge. We should document what they do, not how evil they are or how big a penis they might be. -- Narson ~  Talk  • 19:32, 14 October 2008 (UTC)

I think your edits are over the top Martin.  YellowMonkey  ( click here to chose Australia's next top model! ) 00:53, 15 October 2008 (UTC)

About pizza
He started to take an interest in racing after delivering pizzas to the Brazilian grand prix when he was 7

When he was 7 years old (in 1988?), he should have lived in Sao Paulo, but the Brazilian Grand Prix had been held in Rio de Janeiro (1981 - 1989). Did he go to deliver the pizza to Rio de Janeiro? Or, is the age wrong? Or, wasn't it a Grand Prix of Formula One? I want to know detail. --Morio 03:01, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Isnt the age 17? I heard he used to deliver pizza, but on Interlagos.  (11/04/2008, 22:21) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Spriteyou! (talk • contribs) 00:21, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

 * This news article says 17; although the text seems to have been removed from the article anyway. DH85868993 (talk) 02:29, 14 November 2008 (UTC)

DQ
Just black flagged in Montreal for exiting the pit under a red light. DarkAudit 18:21, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Picture
I think a more recent picture, with him as a Ferrari driver, should be added but I don't know the procedure on how to do this The Dunnie 17:54, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
 * The first step is to locate a picture which satisfies Wikipedia's Image use policy. That's usually the hardest part. DH85868993 04:37, 21 June 2007 (UTC)

Facts
I think this facts section was unnecessary. It was just a simple reiteration of the results above it, and also misleading to the casual reader who wouldn't understand that these facts, which were essentially averages, factor in three seasons driving a Sauber and thus aren't really indicative of his relative performance. The Dunnie 17:00, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree, they don't benefit the reader at all. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elstros (talk • contribs) 19:26, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Trivia section
Is any of this information relevant? Also, he is quoted as saying he won his first "championship" in Turkey... this is obviously a misquote as he has not yet won the championship The Dunnie 18:50, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

-- I may be wrong, but I think he did say championship but meant race.

Birthplace
He wasn't born in São Paulo. He was born in Botucatu, a city in the state of São Paulo. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.18.29.240 (talk) 18:17, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

 * True, these statemants should change. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Elstros (talk • contribs) 19:28, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

References and living persons
It seems that various contributors to this article are insistent on referencing everything back to autosport.com. Surely it would be better to get references to a wider range of sources, including major news organisations, particularly as some of the information on the autosport website is completely unsourced and very little of it is primary information???? I make this comment whilst considering that information relating to living people should be particularly well sourced, especially if it relates to health........ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arknowledgeman (talk • contribs) 21:06, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Autosport is widely held to be one of the most reliable, if not the most reliable motorsport media organisations. It has a large number of personnel on scene at all times, and as such does not need to reference any other organisation. It gets all its own information, which is ALL primary. It is used in the current Hungarian GP accident section only twice, once to verify that Massa will miss the next race, which came straight from the Ferrari team principal; and only once with regard to Massa's condition. Autosport will be receiving all this information first hand from Hungary. Many news organisations will be using Autosport for their information, not the other way round. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:21, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

I guess each to their own view on Autosport, but I still think there should be a variety of sources..Arknowledgeman (talk) 21:32, 25 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Indeed, and you'll find that most people within motorsport hold Autosport in extremely high regard. There are only two uses of Autosport in that section - if you want to add others, of course go ahead. I believe the two Autosport cites should stay though. And no, I don't work for them, even though it might look like that... ! Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:38, 25 July 2009 (UTC)

Separate Section on Hungary Crash?
Given the significance of the crash on Felipe's life and career shouldn't this have it's own section? Thelostlibertine (talk) 16:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, frankly. Every time it's made into a separate section, someone keeps undoing it. I'll put it back. Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:55, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

With regard to the recent reduction in the section on the crash - while I think there should be some reduction, the current treatment is too skimpy. It was a far more substantial injury than Kubica's in 2007, and it's not really comparable at all. It's also still open-ended, and it currently reads like a very minor incident. We don't yet know the ultimate effect on Massa's career. If there's no further discussion, I'll expand the section again, and yes, it still needs its own section. Bretonbanquet (talk) 21:48, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

 * I disagree. Yes, it was a big accident, but let's put this in perspective. It's no longer considered a current event and his recovery is going well enough that he might actually come back this year still. There's no need for that much reporting anymore. Nelson Piquet's big accident in Imola 1987 had him sit out the race and there's no mention of it on his article, for one. More recent examples: Schumacher's accident in Silverstone 1999, which pretty much ended his championship drive, and Kovalainen's crash in Barcelona last year. - X X X antiuser 22:20, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It's still current in that he hasn't returned to racing yet and nobody knows when that will happen. There's a fairly obvious reason why Piquet's / Schumacher's accidents are not as well covered - they're old. They should be expanded to match the level of importance, although Piquet's only resulted in him missing one race. Kovalainen's accident was pretty minor, I'm sure you don't actually mean to compare it to Massa's. At the moment, Kubica's crash takes up more space than Massa's, which is clearly a bit silly. I'm not suggesting that we return to the level of detail we had before, otherwise I would have reverted you, but we need more than there is at the moment. Massa's article is generally way too detailed - in fact we now have more detail on races where he finished 4th then we do on his accident - but this is comfortably the most important event in his career, with the possible exception of last year's title challenge. The article needs to reflect that. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:28, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

 * I agree with you that maybe I was a bit too bold in my reduction, however I don't think the accident merits its own section - not yet anyway. I meant it's not a current event as far as the media in general (and Wikipedia) are concerned - he's at home in Brazil and recovering, there's been no news since he left hospital, the current event template on the article itself is gone. I just think we should look at the bigger picture and make it more encyclopaedic. His racing should take precedence over the accident. Feel free to be bold yourself and rewrite it! - X X X antiuser 22:31, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say you were too bold, I think it's only when editors actually do something that progress is made! I do agree with you that the previous version was too detailed and not very encyclopedic, but I also think that the accident merits slightly more detail than it enjoys at the moment. Massa may yet do a Karl Wendlinger and never be the same again, so the bigger picture is still some time away. I'll wait to see if any of the WikiProject regulars, or anyone else, wants to have a say, then I might expand it slightly. It will still look far more like your version than the previous version though. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:39, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't have a crystal ball, but I kinda doubt he'll pull a Wendlinger, given his eagerness to get back to racing, but the Wendlinger article provides a good example, albeit with a less successful driver, of how to deal with career-changing accidents from an encyclopaedic perspective. Barrichello's Imola crash a few weeks before is another example, though it was understandably overshadowed by the other tragic events of that weekend. - X X X antiuser 23:02, 7 August 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope so. Hopefully it won't be the case, but he may not be as sharp, and if his career should take a downward turn, people will inevitably blame the accident, rightly or wrongly. The Wendlinger article is not too bad an example, although there are no references on the accident at all. Lots of these type of incidents need to be looked at, with some expanded, others probably reduced, and all need proper sourcing. At least Massa's has that. The whole article needs some serious pruning anyway, but there is so much to do across the range of articles that it may be a while before someone gets around to it. Bretonbanquet (talk) 23:13, 7 August 2009 (UTC)

Edit request from St200ol, 9 June 2010
editsemiprotected

Paragraph One, Massa now signed to Ferrari till 2012. See http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/6/10881.html

St200ol (talk) 18:32, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅ C T J F 8 3  pride 20:23, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Text error
check "He finished there" i think that should be he finished third. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.73.231.239 (talk) 13:08, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Incorrect, he finished sixth at Monza in 2008. "He finished there" applies to when he fell to sixth after pit stops and ended the race in the same position. Cs-wolves  (talk)  13:19, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Useful link for current statistics for editors and pending-changes reviewers
http://www1.skysports.com/f1/drivers/felipe-massa/results has current 2014 statistics for those wishing to keep this page up to date and for those with the "reviewer" user-right to verify recently-added information by new- and non-logged-in editors prior to accepting or rejecting the edit if pending-changes-protection is still in force (due to years-long persistent vandalism, the pending-changes protection is unlikely to be removed any time soon). davidwr/ (talk)/(contribs)  18:26, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Distinguished from Felipe Nasr
Is this really necessary? They have the same first name but that's about it. They're known as Massa and Nasr respectively.--83.241.215.98 (talk) 07:05, 21 December 2016 (UTC)
 * "Massa" and "Nasr" sound pretty similar... DH85868993 (talk) 11:33, 21 December 2016 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:38, 23 February 2020 (UTC)
 * EFLT MexicoCityePrix2020-2.jpg

Massa and Nasr disambiguation really no longer needed...
When they were both on the grid in 2015 and 2016 (and both driving for Williams in 2014), it was easy to mix the two up.

However, Massa's career was far larger than Nasr's in retrospect. He partnered with Michael Schumacher, won 11 races for Ferrari along with scoring 41 podiums across his career, was F1 champion for 34 seconds, had an accident which resulted in the development and institution of the Halo device, was part of one of the most infamous team orders in F1 history (Fernando is faster than you), was the last driver to put a Williams in 2nd place until George Russell (and arguably still is since Belgium 2021 was a complete farce), and had a very long career which spanned 3 different engine eras in F1.

Sure, Nasr is currently enjoying some success in IMSA, but the fanbase behind that motorsport isn't even a scratch on F1's worldwide appeal. 194.207.183.182 (talk) 18:10, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Felipe Massa


text:
Talk:Franck Montagny

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title: Talk:Franck Montagny


text:
Talk:Tiff Needell

Category F1?
Should he really be in the F1 category? I have no problem with him being there per se, but the box under his name giving his "stats" give the impression that his life has soley been in F1, and in that "main area" of his life, he has no worthwhile stats. I think this may be an unfair representation of Tiff Needell. I think he is far more famous as a TV personality, and perhaps the article should reflect that. Any thoughts? --Nambio 08:20, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as start, and the rating on other projects was brought up to start class. BetacommandBot 16:30, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Trivia
Tiff is also the presenter of the safety DVD at Thruxton kart track. Djcater 04:05, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Is the comment regarding the nickname correct? I was under the impression that it comes from his brother's mispronunciation of 'Timothy'. Ganglandboss (talk) 18:09, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

F1 Points and podiums
The info box of this article previously said that Needell had one podium and 8 points in his F1 career. I have changed these to 0, since he never finished a race.83.244.128.162 (talk) 16:35, 27 November 2009 (UTC)
 * That section of the infobox details his results in the British Formula One Series, not the World Championship. DH85868993 (talk) 11:13, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Second in the 1998 FIA GT1 Championship?
The hyperlink provided in the article does not verify this. Any additional clues would be welcome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.249.194.192 (talk) 20:33, 24 June 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes, 1998 FIA GT Championship doesn't mention him at all, so I think the statement that he finished second in that championship must be false. driverdb.com says he finished 5th in the 1998 British GT1 championship and brdc.co.uk says he finished 2nd in the 1988 British GT1 Championship, so perhaps whoever wrote the he finished second in the 1998 FIA GT1 Championship meant one of those results instead? DH85868993 (talk) 09:16, 25 June 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tiff Needell


text: Talk:Predatory lending

title: Talk:Predatory lending


text:
Talk:Riccardo Paletti

Untitled
I watched this race and remember with great sorrow the startline accident. Paletti was following the other cars away from the line and, when those in front of him swerved at the last second to avoid Pironi's stationary Ferrari, he plowed straight into the back of Pironi. Later on, people would suggest that Paletti's inexperience was a major factor in the accident, the fact is that he didn't have time to react to the situation. The Osella's fuel tank ruptured some time before the fire started. On the CBC feed, Niki Lauda (interviewed before the restart) began to complain about the slow attention of the track marshalls to the accident. In particular, he focused on the fact that the marshalls had not begun spraying down the spilled fuel before it ignited - the suggestion being that a blanket of retardant might have prevented the fire. He was quickly cut off by the CBC interviewer, and the network then broke away to a different interview. As Paletti had severe physical injuries unrelated to the fire (though medical reports afterward suggested he had lung damage associated with the fire), it seems likely he would not have survived the accident even absent the fire, so perhaps Lauda's comments were not completely fair. Marshalling and safety were woeful during this period in Formula One. Lauda himself had nearly died in a terrible accident only a few years earlier. In addition to the generally poor safety precautions, one must acknowledge that the Osella team produced terribly poor racing cars during the early 1980's, and that the poor design and maintenance of the Osella racing car also played a role in the accident. Earlier in the year, both Jarier and Paletti had indicated a complete lack of confidence in their cars. One only need look at the retirement record of the team to see that wheels (and other parts) fell off with alarming regularity. Posthocergopropterhoc (talk) 20:34, 6 March 2008 (UTC)

His 50th birthday coming up on the 15th; Captndelta (talk) 08:29, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Riccardo Paletti


text:
Talk:Olivier Panis

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Second best racing driver
The Top Gear remark is a pun on a skit by Alan Partridge: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFoCgS_hvZo — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.112.103.13 (talk) 14:41, 4 April 2020 (UTC)
 * That video proves nothing. Your edit has been undone as being WP:OR. SSSB (talk) 14:41, 4 April 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Olivier Panis


text:
Talk:Giorgio Pantano

Untitled
Is anyone going to update the GP2 stats? do other GP2 drivers even have statboxes? With his possible move to the IRL next year is it even relevant? -Drdisque 00:20, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Class = start
Start class. No refs, no structure. 4u1e 08:26, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Giorgio Pantano


text:
Talk:Ronnie Peterson

Untitled
Re the clean up tag: I don't know in what way the article needs to be cleaned up I think it looks good. --Fred-Chess July 5, 2005 02:08 (UTC)
 * I've tidied up the English, broken this into sections, and provided wiki links. I think this is probably what the cleanup was looking for. NickF 6 July 2005 19:33 (UTC)

Inconsistencies?
The article has two conflicting statements: "He was trapped in the burning wreck, but Hunt, Regazzoni and Depailler managed to free him before he received more than minor burns, while track marshals were extinguishing the car. He was dragged free and laid in the middle of the track " but also later on: "Sid Watkins and his medical team headed over Peterson's car to extract him from the wreckage." Who really helped Peterson out of his car? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.166.78.109 (talk) 18:16, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

His career and death
Right now I think that the text about Peterson's death is too long compared with the text about his career. I will try to write a little more about the career.

I don´t think that the statement that RP would have survived if he had gotten medical attention sooner is correct, IF the cause of death was fat embolism. They are formed much later in the process, and 15 a 15 min delay of care would not have done any difference. Cd (talk) 17:47, 28 September 2008 (UTC)

His surname is "Pettersson", not "Peterson"
Ronnie Peterson - complete name: Bengt Ronnie Pettersson. Source for "Pettersson" is Paul Sheldon "Formula 1 Register Record Book 1966", p. 140, I quote: "... an excellent entry including the young Ronnie Pettersson - it was only later that he adopted the English spelling of his name."

So his name is Pettersson (i.e. usual Swedish spelling), nothing else. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.67.62.244 (talk) 09:02, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't think so. As far as I know he was actually born Peterson. It's odd, but it's not that odd.
 * However, I'm a bit skeptic to "Ronnie Peterson married former top model Barbro Edwardsson". I thought she was an ordinary secretary that he met in his hometown. It is of course possible that she had done some modeling, but I don't think top model is correct. 83.248.26.40 10:35, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

 * The headstone on his grave in Örebro says "Peterson". His wife Barbro and a couple of other family members are buried there too, all under the name "Peterson". http://www.ronniepeterson.se/subc/eng/orframe.html Flanker235 (talk) 14:14, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

James Hunt's comments re Riccardo Patrese
I am concerned that the comments attributed to James Hunt in regard of Riccardo Patrese are subjective at best, and add little if anything to the content in repect of Peterson's death.

To clarify, I concur that Hunt (and others) did condemn Patrese for his alleged part in the accident contributing to Peterson's injuries, but the further comment that Hunt engaged in "bitter diatribe" against Patrese as a commentator, is, in my subjective opinion, unfounded.

It is true that Hunt was not shy about mentioning the incident, and indeed apportioning blame, but over the years his opinion certainly mellowed, and (I cannot give an example citation) he came to be of the opinion that even if the accident was Patrese's "fault" (and I believe that he was persuaded over time otherwise) that Peterson's death certainly was not.

--62.64.236.17 21:03, 16 July 2006 (UTC) Dave Wright

In the recently published book "Memories Of James Hunt" by Christopher Hilton, one of Hunt's broadcasting colleagues had this to say :

"After years of being a commentator James discovered the Press Room. He came to me after one race and said 'this is amazing.  Do you know they produce lap times for everybody's laps throughout the entire race?'  I said 'Yes, I've been picking them up for years James'.  He said  'apparently, there's a place called the Press Room where I can get all this stuff.  I shall have to send someone up there to get it for me of course.' He said 'you know, this is absolutely fantastic because now I can prove Patrese's useless rather than just tell everybody' ". I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions about Hunt's 'vendetta' against Patrese. Lec CRP1 11:33, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Bit of a necro-comment this (i.e. this is an old and dead conversation!), but Hunt was still laying into Patrese in his commentary as late at the 1992 South African Grand Prix. As I recall, Murray was rather embarrassed by the whole thing. 4u1e (talk) 10:38, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

British English versus American English?
This article seems to be written as a British racing commentator from the 1960's might've spoken it. Unfortunately, to us Yanks, the third party references, passive voice, etc are very much out of style (as it were)(grins). I cleaned out a bit of it.

In addition, there is a real need to document the heck out of this article with footnotes. There are many things in here that need citations.Twohlford 03:45, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Triva secion?
I merged part of the trivia info into the main body of the article. The remaining needs citations, and really doesn't add to the article. I'm voting that we kill off the rest of the trivia section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Twohlford (talk • contribs) 01:01, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Done. I kept the part about the statue, and got shot of the rest since it seemed either irrelevant (in the case of Brixel's statue of Senna) or uncited (the flowers statement). That can go back in if someone finds a cite. Bretonbanquet (talk) 01:24, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Any Children?
I know for a fact that as also the article states that he was married to ex model Barbro Edwardsson until his untimely death from injuries from the 1978 Italian Grand Prix. Out of curiosity, does anyone know whether Ronnie and Barbro had any children together?

Spokenwordsegment (talk) 12:55, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Based on my research I found out that he and Barbro had a daughter going by the name of Nina, who was born in November in 1975. I got some evidence here:

http://www.ronniepeterson.se/subc/eng/orframe.html

http://www.f1complete.com/content/view/418/510/

Lostinsidemyworld (talk) 17:59, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

It´s not a big thing, but Nina is since long married Kennedy and in my opinion should be adressed as Nina Kennedy and not Peterson.

/Mattias Svensson Hvide-Fos 12:51, 10 October 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.228.19.56 (talk)

Bengt?
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Ronnie_Peterson&diff=prev&oldid=16243833

Do you really think so? I'm surprised... Formerly very active, now only occasional editor (talk) 18:11, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Numerous reliable sources including 8W, ChicaneF1, IMDb(!) and Alan Henry's Peterson biography "Superswede" all confirm Peterson's birth name as "Bengt Ronnie Peterson" (although some write it as "Bengt-Ronnie", i.e. with a hyphen). DH85868993 (talk) 21:48, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Picture has tree growing out of car
The picture of the statue of Ronnie Peterson in Örebro, by Richard Brixel has a tree growing out of the car. It is a horrible shot and should be replaced. Buy any standards the shot is awful.

-oo0(GoldTrader)0oo- (talk) 14:16, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

 * I understand you haven't seen the statue and where it's placed. Unfortunately that's the best to make out of it. Today it's even been moved some meters so it's standing next to an electric post full of graffiti. The city is really making their best to humiliate Ronnie Peterson. In my opinion it should be moved to the roundabout at the university, which is also close to where Ronnie's grave is. Närking (talk) 17:21, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

Initial March career
The lead states that Peterson started his F1 career with a 3-year spell with March factory team. This conflicts with the results table, which shows him driving privateer Marches in 1970, before driving for the works team in 1971 and 1972. DH85868993 (talk) 01:53, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * I noticed that yesterday when I was correcting his number of podiums, then it sailed out of my mind and I forgot it. Worth adjusting the wording, no? Bretonbanquet (talk) 19:55, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Alan Henry's Ronnie Peterson - SuperSwede indicates that Peterson was contracted to March Engineering, but an arrangement was reached whereby Colin Crabbe would run his car for the first year. So I'm not quite sure how the wording should be updated. DH85868993 (talk) 08:42, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

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Specific article on death
An editor had proposed that the article Death of Ronnie Peterson (Draft:Death of Ronnie Peterson) be created. Intereseted editors are invited to respond to the proposal at Talk:1978 Italian Grand Prix. SSSB (talk) 08:15, 12 May 2020 (UTC)
 * Note: Creator has been identified as a long-term sockpuppeteer. Blocked and draft deleted accordingly. Eagleash (talk) 04:38, 13 May 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ronnie Peterson


text:
Talk:Nelson Piquet

Questionable statement
Whilst in no way wishing to detract from Piquet's (or Schumacher's) abilities and achievements, I think the statement that "A proof of Piquet's unique talent is that he and the seven-time champion Michael Schumacher are the only two drivers between 1980 and 2000 to have won world titles racing for teams other than McLaren and Williams - undoubtedly the two reigning forces in those decades" is a bit much. It would hardly be fair to describe McLaren as "a reigning force" in 1983, 1994 or 1995 (or Williams in 1983 for that matter). In 1983, Piquet was in one of the three best cars (Brabham, Renault, Ferrari) and in 1994, Schumacher was in one of the best two (Williams, Benetton). If Irvine had scored three extra points and taken the title in 1999, would that have put him on a par with Piquet and Schumacher? I think not! DH85868993 02:52, 14 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I've removed it. DH85868993 23:29, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Good call. The Gnome 06:53, 1 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Pure original research. Royal broil  18:18, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Indy
Why no mention of his huge crash at the Indy 500 ?
 * It's there: "One of the great characters of 1980s F1, he tried his hand at the Indianapolis 500 in 1992, but crashed during qualifying and was badly injured." DH85868993 23:27, 31 July 2007 (UTC)
 * Indeed, but seeing as this accident ended his career, doesn't it deserve a larger appearance in the article?--Phill talk Edits Review this GA review! 09:46, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

overall quality
I tried to clean up some of the clumsy prose, but this article still needs work. versen (talk) 08:36, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Page move
Why was this page moved from Nelson Piquet? A user searching for "Nelson Piquet" would most likely be looking for the famous F1 racer, not his son or racetrack. If they were looking for his son or racetrack, the "otheruses1" template would suffice at the top of the article to point them to the dab page Nelson Piquet (disambiguation). It seems strange to have an existing article at "Nelson Piquet" then move it to "Nelson Piquet Sr. (racing driver)". ♫ Bitch and Complain Sooner ♫ (talk) 21:53, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Currently under discussion at WP:F1. DH85868993 (talk) 00:29, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Requested move
Consensus at WP:F1 is for this page to be reverted to Nelson Piquet. DH85868993 (talk) 08:02, 17 March 2008 (UTC) Move accepted. Discussion also occurred at WikiProject Formula One. Administrator tools was needed to perform this move, so I did it. Royal broil 01:56, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Support as most famous Nelson Piquet. 70.51.8.110 (talk) 06:20, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Pronunciation of Piquet
Could someone put a phonetic pronunciation of Piquet's name? I'm sure it's not pronounced as if it was French (with the silent 't') as the British commentators say. The Spanish, who should be more clued up on Portuguese pronunciation, pronounce the 't'. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.30.28.186 (talk) 12:05, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

Well, first of all, spanish has a totally different pronunciation than portuguese - even though the two languages are very much alike in written form they are very apart in the way we speak. Actually, portuguese sounds more like french or romanian than spanish.

Anyway, as a brazilian I can attest that we say say "Piquet" with a silent "t".

Unsourced and contradictory edits - including place of birth
See. Apart from a lack of citations, the article as it stands now states that Piquet was born in São Paulo, and in Rio de Janeiro. Clearly one at least is wrong. Can I ask that people find a source before adding such details, and read the whole article when editing it. It shouldn't need a posting at the WP:BLPN to point out such obvious errors. AndyTheGrump (talk) 11:24, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

 * As what sources I can find online seem to give Rio de Janeiro as the place of birth, I have removed São Paulo - but none of the sources look 100% trustworthy, so I have marked Rio de Janeiro as needing citation. If anyone can find a reliable source for this, it will be useful - but watch out for articles which have used Wikipedia for a source. AndyTheGrump (talk) 11:41, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

 * Piquet was born in Rio. Citation: ADAC Special: Grand Prix 1989, Hamburg 1989 ISSN 0937-0137, page 100. (in German language). One could argue that the writer who said he is from Sao Paoulo was joking, as Piquet provoked Sao Paulo-Fans more than once: http://formula1global.com/tracks/nelson-piquet-has-provoked-discontent-brazilian.html Definitely a gross error.--Michael G. Lind (talk) 13:50, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

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About Hamilton
The article cites a BBC report for Piquet having called Lewis Hamilton a "neguinho" in 2022. But that BBC report curiously fails to specify what he is supposed to have said, not mentioning the Brazilian word, nor stating that it is the equivalent of "nigger" as we say in this article. So we need a source for what he actually said, and someone who knows the subtleties of Portuguese insults to help clarify its connotations. Beorhtwulf (talk) 10:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

 * I've removed that he used "neguinho" as this is an explicit WP:BLP violation without a source expliticly stating it. SSSB (talk) 10:54, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

 * Definitely a social media frenzy fueled mess, a lot of it in another language, at the moment. By what I can discern looking at various racing news sources, and others like The Guardian is everyone pointing to the CNN Brasil's article ;. The article's extremely short and has less information than any other I've found. It appears the interviewer is Ricardo Oliveira, on a podcast called Motorsport Talk that I can't find. All I've found is a tweet with an excerpt of the interview which was conducted in Portugese. This article will need some help with folks familiar with Brazilian Portugese . --WGFinley (talk) 11:20, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

We've now had an edit by User:Judyverstakl to say that the podcast in question was actually in 2021. But unless I'm missing something, this is also not stated in the source cited. Beorhtwulf (talk) 11:22, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

 * OK, the tweet helpfully found by User:WGFinley does say 2021. Thanks for that. Beorhtwulf (talk) 11:24, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

All, found a reliable source now. Motorsport.com is very well regarded in the racing press, their Brazilian editor reviewed the podcast and translated it, I think this is a good source to clarify the incident and added it. Other than that, think I'll stay out of editing this one. --WGFinley (talk) 11:33, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

 * Thanks for finding that, and it does go into some more detail including making clear that the podcast was from 2021. We are still none the wiser, at least going by the cited sources, about what specifically Piquet is supposed to have said. Beorhtwulf (talk) 11:36, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

 * We need to be a little careful about this, since we are dealing with a translation. I've amended the text for now, to indicate this. From what I've read it isn't entirely clear whether the specific word used by Piquet is always seen as a slur, though there seems to be some agreement that it was at minimum inappropriate. AndyTheGrump (talk) 13:41, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

 * A report from The Scotsman, which specifies the word used (twice), confirming it as 'neguinho'. AndyTheGrump (talk) 14:05, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

OK, the article has been edited quite a bit and I'm still concerned information finding its way into footnoted sentences doesn't actually appear in the sources given. For example, we currently quote someone's translation of Piquet's remarks from one of the cited sources, but in place of their "n*****" (complete with asterisks, as if the mere sight of the word will make our eyes bleed, and yet we're supposed to guess what it is) we go with the original "neguinho" but then gloss it as "[little black boy]", seemingly unsupported by the sources. Evidently then there's a difference of opinion about whether neguinho is a straightforward equivalent of nigger or is a racially tinged way of referring to someone that nevertheless isn't perceived as offensively as that. I don't speak Portuguese so have no clue about the connotations myself. Wikipedia should do better than journalists who simply report that Piquet has used racist language without doing the reader the courtesy of telling them what he said. We ideally need direct quotation of his exact words in Portuguese, and a translation that makes clear (so no suggestive asterisks) how this translates in English, reliably sourced. We also need (and have, currently) a mention that his comments were made in 2021 but have suddenly blown up now. Beorhtwulf (talk) 18:15, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

 * Agreed, the article certainly isn't satisfactory at present. As for translations, it is probably unrealistic to expect an 'exact' one, in the context of potentially emotionally-charged words. For what it's worth (I don't speak Portuguese either), there seems to be at least some evidence that context matters a lot regarding the word 'neguinho' - we have an article on a Brazilian futsal player who goes by that name professionally, which rather suggests that the word isn't always seen as offensive. I think the best we can do is probably to just state the word used, and report the controversy that has arisen. AndyTheGrump (talk) 18:25, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * So we are not sure if "neguinho" is a racist word, or if it's use just appears racist in that context (i.e. if Brundle used "little black boy" to describe Hamilton in a critism is would be percieved as racist)? This needs clearing up. In the article's current form (in comments subsequently translated to "But the neguinho [little black boy] put the car [on the inside of Copse]. Copse is a very high speed corner, there's no way two cars can make it side by side.) it doesn't read like a "racial slur at all. It reads that (what makes this racist) is the context. I certainly don't get the impression that it is the Portuguese equivilant of "n*****" as suggested by the sources. I will shortly raise a translation request at WT:WikiProject Brazil and WT:WikiProject Portugal in the hope of finding someone who can translate. SSSB (talk) 18:55, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I have changed it to say that it is "n*****" as the cited sources do not support the translation of "little black boy". SSSB (talk) 19:03, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Which source are you getting your (unbowdlerised) translation from? AndyTheGrump (talk) 19:15, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * We bowdlerise when we quote, and the quote bowdlerises. My interpretation of the guidline is that because the Wikiepdia article in it's current form isn't quoting anyone, it is merely reporting the translation, bowdlerising isn't appropraite. If we quoted the entire sentence, then bowdlerising would be appropriate. If you have a different interpration, I would be interested to hear it. SSSB (talk) 19:55, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * My issue isn't just with whether we bowdlerise or not. It is whether we should be suggesting that there is any exact translation between the Brazilian Portuguese term and an English one. So far, the only source I've seen which apparently does that is Motorsport.com, and I'm not sure we should see that as having any particular authority on the subject, even if we assume that we know the intended word behind their bowdlerising. Other sources seem less inclined to make 'translations' in such a context, and instead report the untranslated term, and the fact that it has been widely seen as offensive. As I see it, it doesn't really matter for the purposes of this article whether the word can be directly translated into English or not, since it was offensive in context, and that is what is being reacted to. AndyTheGrump (talk) 20:53, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * I am a Brazilian native, and while I do not have any professional translation credentials, maybe I can give some perspective to non-natives. The word "neguinho" literally means "little black boy". The suffix "-inho/a" in a word means "little", and it is either used to add affection to a word or to demean or belittle. So whether "neguinho" is being used as a slur or as an endearment term highly depends on the context and tone. When used to refer to a close friend or family member, it is most likely an endearment term, if not a slightly racially tinged nickname (but it is also often used to refer to non-black individuals too). These days it is not very encouraged anymore, but by no means it has the same charge as "nig***". Piquet's sentence in isolation cannot be objectively interpreted to be either a slur or an old-fashioned slang that people may raise eyebrows. However, Piquet is widely perceived to be a conservative bigot in Brazil, so most interpretations is that he indeed used it as a racial slur. Nevertheless, I don't agree that "neguinho" translates to "nig***" and think that should be corrected. Cosmia2 (talk) 23:13, 28 June 2022 (UTC)
 * Agree. The suffix "-inho" (and "-inha" when feminine) is a diminuitive. It's use can be positive - to indicate affection or familiarity (similar to referring to Michael as "Mikey"), neutral - to indicate someone who is younger, smaller, or less experienced (eg Ronaldinho), or negative as a means of demeaning or showing disrespect toward someone.
 * The intention is informed by the context in which it is used altho, of course, language is complex and people can be duplicitous. The context might superficially suggest a positive meaning while the opposite is intended.
 * Furthermore, "neguinho" translates more accurately to "(little) nigga" in English, with the same variability of acceptance depending on how and where it is used. The equivalent of "n---er" in Portuguese is "negrinho". 220.235.122.247 (talk) 05:40, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

, I wasn't implying anything. I was stating a cited fact related to the matter. - "Ghost of  Dan Gurney"  13:58, 29 June 2022 (UTC)
 * The relationship between Kelly and Verstappen is only relevant if there is evidence that Nelson's comments were influenced (in part or in whole, consciously or subconsciously) by the relationship. Therefore stating that this relationship exists does imply that the relationship had some bearing on why Nelson said what he did. SSSB (talk) 15:50, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

In Rio de Janeiro it is extremely common to use the word "neguinho" as a slang, I live in this city and I say it myself all the time. It's not racist slang, it's a popular and old slang in the area that generalizes when you're too lazy to speak or remember people's names. You simply say, "ah, that neguinho over there" instead of saying "ah, that person over there". It shouldn't be a reason for so much commotion, but it's an election year in Brazil, the left wants to destroy the right and that's on the agenda. There are people out there who are very mentally addicted to politics who see a racial problem in anything. Piquet is known in Brazil for being rude, perhaps old-fashioned, but not racist. His manner as a person was molded into the pattern of his time.Gtroviz (talk) 22:55, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

 * WE go by what the sources say, not by contributors' own personal interpretations. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:00, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Your "super sources" are pathetic angry socialists from the US and Europe. You live in Rio? No, then go eat cattle pasture. You don't know the local slangs. Gtroviz (talk) 23:03, 5 July 2022 (UTC)
 * Gtroviz, we all get it: "eat shit". I just dropped a warning for that on your talk page. Oh, "pathetic angry socialists" is ridiculous. Yes, "super" sources--I get it, you know better, but we still go by reliable sources, and we'll put more stock in them than in your personal observations which, it seems to me, are very much colored by a kind of apologetics. Let me add that the only one who injected politics into this is...you. Drmies (talk) 23:11, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

 * I know Wikipedia policy, which is what matters here. Go read them, starting with WP:RS, WP:OR, and WP:NPA. AndyTheGrump (talk) 23:08, 5 July 2022 (UTC)

About others
Going back further, the article says Piquet called Nigel Mansell an "uneducated blockhead", his wife Roseanne "ugly", Ayrton Senna "gay" and Enzo Ferrari "senile". Mansell's 1995 autobiography is given as the source for Mansell being unhappy about this, and we helpfully have a page reference, but it's not clear from the article whether that book provides a specific quotation of all four insults, and whether the footnote is supposed to be the source for the whole paragraph in our article or just Mansell's reaction. Perhaps someone who has access to it can check. If we are going to attribute specific words to people, we ought to have a specific source. Beorhtwulf (talk) 10:38, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

 * Not sure if this is relevant or should be included, but Brazilians have also been remembering the time Piquet, when asked in a TV show who was better, him or Ayrton Senna, he said "Well, I'm alive" and proceeding to laugh. It is a widely known comment from Piquet amongst Brazilians, and there are many videos on Youtube showing the specific comment being made, but unfortunately there doesn't seem to be an English reputable source on it. Brazilian source 1, 2. Cosmia2 (talk) 16:42, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

 * I've added a 2018 book source on the 1988 controversy, and also a reference for Piquet still calling Senna gay in 2020. I agree that it's bad for a controversy section to rely on the writings of an allegedly aggrieved party. Unknown Temptation (talk) 18:01, 28 June 2022 (UTC)

 * The current section heading of "Offensive language" is perhaps not the most neutral heading to use. "Gay" (his description of "gay" to describe Senna), "Uneducated blockhead" and "ugly" are perhaps better described, in neutral terms, as insults rather than "offensive" language. In my view the section heading should be changed to "Use of insults" or "Insults" for a more neutral heading. If "neguinho" (in the context that Piquet used the word) means "little black guy" in Brazil, then many people would find that description offensive, but not all Wikipedia readers. When Piquet later apologised, he said that it was not intended to be racist. In my view, the heading of "Offensive" shouldn't be in Wiki-voice and the more neutral description of his language is "Insults". Kind Tennis Fan (talk) 23:16, 29 June 2022 (UTC)

New Business Venture (Loxahatchee, FL)
Nelson has recently bought out a business along FL SR 80/Southern Blvd, named Piquet Entertainment and Race Park. Figured I’d let y’all know, as a south florida local who drives past it all the time, and as an F1 fan who’s dating another F1 fan lol 2601:58A:4100:27E0:40A0:9D77:123:EA11 (talk) 07:49, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nelson Piquet


text:
Talk:Antônio Pizzonia

Complete race results
These don't seem very "complete". Is there a preferred format for more comprehensive listings? i.e. qualifying position, race position, points etc.

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title: Talk:Antônio Pizzonia


text:
Talk:Alain Prost

Featured article review needed
This is a 2006 Featured article that has not been maintained to FA standards. Unless these issues can be addressed with a considerable update, rewrite, copyedit and sourcing, the article should be submitted to Featured article review. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  16:15, 16 December 2020 (UTC)
 * There is considerable uncited text.
 * There is MOS:SANDWICHing and poor image layout.
 * There is not a consistent citation style.
 * There are marginal sources, sample: https://www.prostfan.com/
 * Why are the books in Further reading not used as sources?
 * The Table in "Racing record" needs to be reviewed for Accessibility issues.
 * There are short, stubby paragraphs indicating recent additions suffer from WP:PROSELINE (sample section After Prost Grand Prix).
 * A copyedit is needed, sample: 2001 saw some much needed optimism for the team as Ferrari agreed to be the team's engine supplier for the season, the team now moving in the right direction.
 * Most of the issues should be resolved now. --Dallavid (talk) 15:11, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Alain Prost


text:
Talk:Tom Pryce

WP:URFA/2020
I am reviewing this (old or very old) FA as part of WP:URFA/2020, an effort to determine whether old featured articles still meet the featured article criteria. Hopefully these items can be addressed so that a Featured article review will not be needed. Sandy Georgia (Talk)  02:17, 23 February 2022 (UTC)
 * There is some uncited text.
 * There are incomplete citations (sample, who is the publisher here ? "The Tragic Tale of Tom Pryce". Archived from the original on 21 May 2014. Retrieved 21 May 2014.)
 * There are a number of sources that may not be reliable, or high-quality for an FA: formulaspy.com, carkeys.co.uk, oldracingcars.com, and more.
 * A MOS review would be helpful (Sample, MOS:ALLCAPS Matthews, Gethin (7 April 2014). "PRYCE, THOMAS MALDWYN (1949-1977), racing driver". )

title: Talk:Tom Pryce