text:
Talk:Black nationalism

critical view
70.22.49.218 :"Critics charge that black nationalism denies multi-racial unity and is therefore its own brand of racism disguised as self-determination"
 * Any nationalist, be him black / white / yellow / green will deny multi-racial unity, however this still is nationalism, racism / supermacy starts at point when one considers his race / nation to be superior despite scientific facts and therefore eligible of benefits, resorces and living space at expense of another nation / race.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by AlV (talk • contribs) 14:04, 14 August 2005 (UTC)

 * your 'critical view' is . black nationalism has nothing to do with supposed superiority, rather combating it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.8.68.150 (talk) 10:49, 25 August 2005 (UTC)
 * ...right, just like white nationalism has nothing to do with supposed superiority. - Quirk 04:49, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Black Nationalism has to be analyzed as a response to imperialism, colonialism, segregation, apartheid, etc. and other activities of the Western (European Age's of Exploration and Imerialism in addition to thei non-democratic economic and governmental functionings in other countrys. Black Nationalism is essentially a response by peoples classifed as black (race theory) by the framers of the modern world toward a series of unilateral European (Including pre-1950's America due to its laws impeding many non-whites from voting) foreign policies.Aminatam 14:30, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
 * If one is a nationalist, it does not mean that he/she is against other cultures/races. They just love their culture more than the others... Ko Soi IX 09:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Very much agreed. Should be applied to all races across the board in order for truly equal policies and conditions to be achieved. Anything else is purely regressive. That's why I usually ignore any "two wrongs make a right" justifications by ignored any words that follow the word "Historically....."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.44.33.73 (talk) 08:01, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That view by Aminatam is problematic for numerous reasons. One, saying that "lack Nationalism has to be analyzed as a response to (all these pejoratives associated with whiteness") then if race is a social construct, it means that modern black nationalism can only be defined by its opposition to white people and/or white nationalism (and the numerous pejoratives associated with white people), which in turn means that if white nationalism is ultimately a negative construction, so is black nationalism. You can't have your cake and eat it too, it comes across as taking one thing and using it to your advantage for similar aims. Two, it also means that if white people and whiteness is a construction, so is blackness and black people and the various pejoratives associated with black people and blackness are up for debate. Two, I also think that the issue of democracy is more finely tuned than you would like to admit and refers more to pan Arabic and pan African socialism, especially given that the links between Western civilisation and democracy are incredibly well founded and evidenced. Three, black nationalism is as unilateral and regressive as white nationalism is by it's very nature: it is exclusionary (even if you consider it reactionary) and by its very definition requires nationhood and foreign policy (as you say) based purely on race. Basically, when you still have political situations like Liberia and political examples like Zambia, you can't really complain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.44.33.73 (talk) 07:58, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * If one is a nationalist, it does not mean that he/she is against other cultures/races. They just love their culture more than the others... Ko Soi IX 09:59, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Very much agreed. Should be applied to all races across the board in order for truly equal policies and conditions to be achieved. Anything else is purely regressive. That's why I usually ignore any "two wrongs make a right" justifications by ignored any words that follow the word "Historically....."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.44.33.73 (talk) 08:01, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That view by Aminatam is problematic for numerous reasons. One, saying that "lack Nationalism has to be analyzed as a response to (all these pejoratives associated with whiteness") then if race is a social construct, it means that modern black nationalism can only be defined by its opposition to white people and/or white nationalism (and the numerous pejoratives associated with white people), which in turn means that if white nationalism is ultimately a negative construction, so is black nationalism. You can't have your cake and eat it too, it comes across as taking one thing and using it to your advantage for similar aims. Two, it also means that if white people and whiteness is a construction, so is blackness and black people and the various pejoratives associated with black people and blackness are up for debate. Two, I also think that the issue of democracy is more finely tuned than you would like to admit and refers more to pan Arabic and pan African socialism, especially given that the links between Western civilisation and democracy are incredibly well founded and evidenced. Three, black nationalism is as unilateral and regressive as white nationalism is by it's very nature: it is exclusionary (even if you consider it reactionary) and by its very definition requires nationhood and foreign policy (as you say) based purely on race. Basically, when you still have political situations like Liberia and political examples like Zambia, you can't really complain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.44.33.73 (talk) 07:58, 21 December 2021 (UTC)
 * That view by Aminatam is problematic for numerous reasons. One, saying that "lack Nationalism has to be analyzed as a response to (all these pejoratives associated with whiteness") then if race is a social construct, it means that modern black nationalism can only be defined by its opposition to white people and/or white nationalism (and the numerous pejoratives associated with white people), which in turn means that if white nationalism is ultimately a negative construction, so is black nationalism. You can't have your cake and eat it too, it comes across as taking one thing and using it to your advantage for similar aims. Two, it also means that if white people and whiteness is a construction, so is blackness and black people and the various pejoratives associated with black people and blackness are up for debate. Two, I also think that the issue of democracy is more finely tuned than you would like to admit and refers more to pan Arabic and pan African socialism, especially given that the links between Western civilisation and democracy are incredibly well founded and evidenced. Three, black nationalism is as unilateral and regressive as white nationalism is by it's very nature: it is exclusionary (even if you consider it reactionary) and by its very definition requires nationhood and foreign policy (as you say) based purely on race. Basically, when you still have political situations like Liberia and political examples like Zambia, you can't really complain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.44.33.73 (talk) 07:58, 21 December 2021 (UTC)

Perhaps a comparison is in order
Why don't some of the more objective souls here take a gander at the WNism and BNism articles with comparison in mind? The WNism article begins with a criticism veiled as a defense, while the BNism article doesn't become critical until a small paragraph at the very end.

Does this strike anyone but me as unfair? The BNism article starts with history and description, while the WNism article starts with "'no no, I promise WNism isn't supremacy, honest' said the evil WN". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.132.172.37 (talk) 02:19, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

What is glaringly ommited from the above discussion is the fact that the developed political philosophy of Huey Newton's Black panthers was explicity against Nationalism of any form. Newton rejected the early Black Nationalist view of the Party and sought to promote a system of Intercommunalism, a philosophy of self-determination which could, he argued, eventually help humanity work through all of its internal contradictions and disputes and achieve unity by the rejection of all abstract barriers, particularly race. This relied heavily on both Kantian and Judeo-Christian ethics. The bigotry and inherent ideological shortfallings of much Black Nationalist thoguth should be readily apparent to most interested observers, as should the gulf between Black nationalism and the mature Black Panthers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.158.53.177 (talk) 11:43, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Frantz Fanon
Hey there, really don't know if i'm doing this right, and i don't want to head in there in case I muck it up, but i've noticed a bit of an error in the Frantz Fanon bit.. "A Dying Colonialism" is merely a translation of "L’An Cinq de la Révolution Algérienne", but the paragraph here makes it sound as though they're twow completely different texts.. 134.36.18.105 10:34, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

 * You'll probably never see this, considering this edit was nearly a year ago, but next time (I'm guessing the article has been corrected? . . .) go ahead, do the edit yourself. You couldn't muck it up too badly,? And if something gets messed, there are millions to change it back. Millancad 07:29, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

-- Frantz Fanon was a Communist and a Pan-Africanist, he was not a Black Nationalist. I don't think the Uhuru movement can be considered Nationalist as they (or the APSP, I'm unsure) admit White people into membership. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Do for self (talk • contribs) 19:21, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't the mere fact that Wikipedia made seprate articles for Black Nationalism and White Nationalism make Wikipedia racist? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.183.58.186 (talk) 19:20, 18 September 2010 (UTC)

Renaming the Criticism Section
The section which is currently titled "A White Supremacist View" implies that all criticism of Black Nationalism necessarily stems from a white supremacist perspective, while the section itself cites primarily Black sources. I'll wait a bit to see if any objections come up, otherwise I'm renaming the section. Crocodilicus 01:28, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Wow... Was it actually named that? Talk about POV. I notice that it's currently named "A critical view", perhaps to fit the usual formatting of wikipedia articles it could be named "Criticism". edit: I am changing it myself for now. 64.230.87.17 (talk) 13:23, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Merge with African nationalism?
Bizzurp talking: I don't think that this article should be merged with African Nationalism. They are two distinct topics. Black Nationalism has more to do with the American Civil Rights Movement, than does African Nationalism. Black Nationalism was created when African descendants living in the United States were not comfortable and able to fully engage in the dominantly-white society during the civil rights era, so they became their own Nationalists and took pride in their own communities. But African Nationalism, after reading the article, is a separate concept all on its own. It's about the unification of African people who are living IN Africa. Just because "Black" and "African" are used interchangeably in the United States, that doesn't mean that the two terms have the same meaning. One is about a jurisdiction, and one is about a demographic. There is clear value in not combining the two articles. They are different concepts. Bizzurp (talk) 13:25, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Age of sources
Hello, I think that while the information on the wikipage comes from reliable scholarly journals or novel, it is important to note that several of the sources are 10 to 20 years old. I think that as a whole it can be updated to include more recent changes of what is occurring with Black Nationalism. Also, Marcus Garvey greatly influenced the Black Nationalism organization in the 20th century. The page did not include Farrad Muhammad, who also played an important role in the organization of Black Nationalism with the creation of the Nation of Islam. This would be great information to add and possibly could lead to more ideas being discussed on the page. Jantzenh (talk) 00:55, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Promotion of violence?
Hello, You make the claim that critics "that most black nationalist groups promote racial violence" perhaps citing which organizations and people have made this assertion will add the the credibility of this statement. Also, the section on Marcus Garvey is missing critical information about his views on Black Nationalism such as establishing the Black Star Line to encourage trade between people in Africa and the U.S., Caribbean and South and Central America.Naomiis (talk) 00:37, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

'black' vs 'Black'
This page appears to follow the AP Stylebook, while the Black people page appears to follow the ASA Style Guide. An effort should be made to ensure important pages within this subject follow the same style. In my opinion, the ASA style is preferred since neither 'black' nor 'white' carry the same meaning as 'Asia' does for the term 'Asian'. --Tsumugii (talk) 13:04, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

 * @Tsumugii I hadn't known we were closely affiliated with the ASA. These changes must be rolled out immediately.
 * Kidding aside, Wikipedia MOS does touch on this. MOS:RACECAPS. Maxx-♥ talk and coffee ☕ 12:57, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I'd like to point out that the article on white nationalism does not capitalize white in this sense. There should be a consistent standard; either capitalize both or neither. Part of the AP's reasoning for capitalizing black is straight up laughable: "AP’s style is now to capitalize Black in a racial, ethnic or cultural sense, conveying an essential and shared sense of history, identity and community among people who identify as Black, including those in the African diaspora and within Africa.", while simultaneously "White people generally do not share the same history and culture...". To say black Americans would, on average, have significantly more of a shared cultural background with an African than say, a white American to a European, and that this warrants capitalizing "black" and not "white", is absurd. I don't think this is the standard Wikipedia should follow. MeanMotherJr (talk) 09:39, 9 September 2021 (UTC)

 * Point of clarification: The term Black is often capitalised in this context not because Africans and African Americans have more in common with each other than Europeans and European Americans do, but because African Americans have more in common with other African Americans than other national or ethnic identities.
 * As this page says, Black Americans are often considered a singular ethnic group, even though they may have historically come from lots of different places, and are treated as such by the society they live in. Note that many Africans living in Africa do not consider themselves Black. That is the difference. They have no Black identity because they have a local ethnic identity instead (Somalian, Nigerian, Kenyan, etc). Lacking that local ethnic identity, Black people in the diaspora have a Black identity instead. This is due to the specific nature of the African Diaspora, where most Black people in America and the Caribbean do not know which African country they historically came from.
 * Meanwhile, most Irish Americans probably identify with Irishness before whiteness; their Irishness is more central to their identity than their whiteness. They certainly don't see themselves as having a shared culture with the English, for example. Ukrainian Americans probably see themselves as distinct from Russian Americans, and so on. Black Americans usually do have a shared culture that is specific to America, where that culture emerged, and ties them together through blackness rather than a specific African country. Ditto Black Jamaicans.
 * In this article, since we talk about multiple types of Black identity, I can see an argument for leaving it as is (just like there are multiple native groups, but we would use Native when referring to Native Americans specifically), but I wanted to clarify re the AP article and why capitalising Black and white isn't an equivalence. Lewisguile (talk) 19:01, 22 March 2024 (UTC)

Black versus white nationalism
White nationalisms page inserts presuppositions about theoretical individuals' motivations, desires, and ideologies. Black nationalisms page, instead of making the same presuppositions, is described in the most charitable way and any controversial dimensions of the ideology are instead separated from the page altogether and lumped into entirely different concepts like black supremacy.

This seems to be an instance of apologist astroturfing that is rather comical when you look at the two articles side by side. They are the exact same concepts, the only difference being race. If wikipedia is to be taken as a reliable source of information and not a pop-culture infused pseudo-atlas of politically motivated disparities that set entirely different definitions based solely on the race of the individual who holds the concept in belief, there should be some degree of consistency.

White nationalism is almost immediately connected to entirely separate theories like an ethno state, while black nationalism, conversely, precludes any such attributions by informing the reader that any controversial or dangerous branching ideologies are separate and therefore not part of nationalism.

The concepts are the same, it doesn't matter what race the individual who holds the belief is. Unless wikipedia isnt actually providing consistent scientifically backed definitions, and instead is drawing on pop-culture perceptions and politically-motivated interpretations and opinion. 76.171.171.176 (talk) 14:44, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

 * I saw in a Wikipedia reply, maybe to my own question or maybe to someone else's, that a News site source should be used rather than the source of the original Bill for a certain Law or something like that. To me, that does not make much sense, especially as the person that wrote that reply suggested CNN/The Guardian, or another one of those quite culturally-left NEWS agencies. The types of NEWS sites that will write related articles in a heavily biased view that skews the fact of the matter. It then used the opinion of the article rather than the text of the bill.
 * To me, it seems observable of a considerate bias in Wikipedia reporting.
 * This can also be seen in WN/BN pages, the Bias.
 * I am pretty sure the bill in question came from Colorado and was a number like "103b", and was about increasing punishments for child sex offenders, and the bill was shot down for being supposedly "targeted towards transsexuals", which was quoted in the article and then used by Wikipedia. Having read the bill myself, it did not appear that way at all, and the bill appeared to be purely about punishing CSA harder. 110.22.251.226 (talk) 11:23, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The scientifically backed definitions asked for show that the concepts are not, in fact, the same. Wikipedia articles are based on published, reliable sources, not armchair logical analyses. —Sangdeboeuf (talk) 03:42, 24 March 2024 (UTC)
 * 1. Opinion Articles are not reliable sources for definitions.
 * 2. Using only the SPLC definition while ignoring how this issue is defined and addressed other organizations, such as the ADL, is so obviously counterproductive it is baffling and embarrassing that their word is being treated as gospel here. It doesn't even explain what fundamentally makes W and B nationalism so different in ideology and insteads skirts around it with "They don't have people in high levels of government (they have) or the WH." Somehow saying calling BN BS is a bad thing is also the same as directing less attention away from WN/WS because the FBI investigates these organizations? How are these things connected or relevant to the topic? The SCLP sources do not explain any further and I believe the bare minimum here would to find a source that actually attempts to go further in depth than this, which these current sources hardly do at all.
 * This is all just the SCLP. In other areas, you see some 'questionable' sources, to put it mildly, including one that is literally "The SCLP is everything Wrong with Liberalism." Again, another opinion piece barely connected to the subject.
 * If you have an actual defense of how this section of the Article currently is, give it. If you can't muster anything more than "Uh you're just a debate bro so no" then please don't chime in. BOBTHETOMATO42069 (talk) 02:34, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The article has over 200 references. So far, you haven't given any RS (or any sources at all?) to contradict what's written. Can you please provide your sources so we can take a look at them? A simple contrast with white nationalism isn't sufficient according to WP policy on uniformity. Lewisguile (talk) 18:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)
 * The article has over 200 references. So far, you haven't given any RS (or any sources at all?) to contradict what's written. Can you please provide your sources so we can take a look at them? A simple contrast with white nationalism isn't sufficient according to WP policy on uniformity. Lewisguile (talk) 18:03, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

Distinguishing Black Nationalism/Separatism
> They are in fact very different philosophies: Black separatism is the pursuit of a "Black-only state";[5][6] and Black supremacism has been defined as the belief that Black people are superior to non-Blacks and should dominate them.

This fails to establish a difference between Black Nationalism (subject matter) and Black Separatism. I don't know what this difference would be, but if there is one, I feel that it would be important to enunciate, so that readers don't walk away with an inaccurate conception of separatism vs. nationalism. I'm not well read on this subject but I hope someone can clarify here, given the article's importance. Theodore Christopher (talk) 02:39, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

 * Black Nationalism as I understand it is the ideology of forming a Black-only nation, like Zionism. Black nationalism is heavily entwined with Black-supremacy, just as White nationalism is entwined with White supremacy.
 * Black separatism as I understand is the separation of blacks to form its own nation. Black separatism inherently requires Black-nationalism, unless it is automatically formed by Asian and White Separatism/Nationalism movements that by nature then exclude blacks.
 * (note that the usage of capital letter in this comment is used in movements, but not race, and lowercase is used in race but not capital) 110.22.251.226 (talk) 11:31, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * (note that the usage of capital letter in this comment is used in movements, but not race, and lowercase is used in race but not capital) 110.22.251.226 (talk) 11:31, 9 August 2023 (UTC)

Southern Poverty Law Center Appeal in Introduction
Why is the Southern Poverty Law Center being cited to restrict the definition of white nationalism, a group whose ideology they are opposed to, in an article that goes to great lengths in detailing the diversity within black nationalism? Again, the article is “Black Nationalism,” why are we giving a preferential spot in the opening exposition and summary, of a critical review of white nationalism in the first place? It speaks of anti-intellectualism and politicization on a platform which prides itself on being unbiased and intellectually honest. The article needs to be edited appropriately. Recommend removing SPLC’s “definition” altogether and simply linking the article to white nationalism, which can include their definition, under the “criticism” heading. J.P.Dill (talk) 08:11, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure what you mean by "to restrict the definition of white nationalism"?
 * Anyway, the comment is there in the lede because critics of black nationalism say "it is these things, and it is like this", while other groups have said "but it's not like that because..." I read it back to double check for tone and NPOV, and I do think it's okay. Both are very short references for the lede and are expanded upon elsewhere in the article.
 * As this talk page shows, however, people have asked how black nationalism is different to white nationalism. It seems relevant to include some distinctions even in the lede because of that.
 * Removing the SPLC section altogether seems unbalanced if we're to keep the various criticisms of black nationalism in. It's relevant to note when someone (or an organisation) mentioned as critiquing something later changes their mind, or you're giving undue weight to the critique alone.
 * If you have a suggestion for wording the opening differently (and even the SPLC section), I'd be happy to hear it. I'm sure we can find a consensus. Lewisguile (talk) 18:15, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Black nationalism


text:
Talk:Sir David Yule

Created redirect page to Bricket Wood for Sir David Yule. Also listed on Daily Chronicle entry. MPLX/MH 23:46, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Sir David Yule


text:
GNU MPFR

The GNU Multiple Precision Floating-Point Reliable Library (GNU MPFR) is a GNU portable C library for arbitrary-precision binary floating-point computation with correct rounding, based on GNU Multi-Precision Library.

Library
MPFR's computation is both efficient and has a well-defined semantics: the functions are completely specified on all the possible operands and the results do not depend on the platform. This is done by copying the ideas from the ANSI/IEEE-754 standard for fixed-precision floating-point arithmetic (correct rounding and exceptions, in particular). More precisely, its main features are:
 * Support for special numbers: signed zeros (+0 and −0), infinities and not-a-number (a single NaN is supported: MPFR does not differentiate between quiet NaNs and signaling NaNs).
 * Each number has its own precision (in bits since MPFR uses radix 2). The floating-point results are correctly rounded to the precision of the target variable, in one of the five supported rounding modes (including the four from IEEE 754-1985).
 * Supported functions: MPFR implements all mathematical functions from C99 and other usual mathematical functions: the logarithm and exponential in natural base, base 2 and base 10, the log(1+x) and exp(x)−1 functions ( and  ), the six trigonometric and hyperbolic functions and their inverses, the gamma, zeta and error functions, the arithmetic–geometric mean, the power (xy) function. All those functions are correctly rounded over their complete range.
 * Subnormal numbers are not supported, but can be emulated with the  function.

MPFR is not able to track the accuracy of numbers in a whole program or expression; this is not its goal. Interval arithmetic packages like Arb, MPFI, or Real RAM implementations like iRRAM, which may be based on MPFR, can do that for the user.

MPFR is dependent upon the GNU Multiple Precision Arithmetic Library (GMP).

MPFR is needed to build the GNU Compiler Collection (GCC). Other software uses MPFR, such as ALGLIB, CGAL, FLINT, GNOME Calculator, the Julia language implementation, the Magma computer algebra system, Maple, GNU MPC, and GNU Octave.

title: GNU MPFR


text:
Talk:Brad Miller

- I have made this a disambiguation page since the Congressman and the Basketball player are different. -- iHoshie 23:48, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Brad Miller


text:
Talk:Daily Chronicle

[Untitled]
Created entry for Daily Chronicle with link to Sir David Yule and others. MPLX/MH 23:48, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Which Star newspaper is the one mentioned? Not the same one as The Star (London) presumably? Rothorpe 19:50, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Presumably it was as there've never been many London evening papers. I've rephrased the article slightly to try and make clear that this was a national paper printed in London rather than a London paper.  Ϣere Spiel  Chequers  15:45, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:Daily Chronicle


text:
Talk:Kolkata/to do

 * Continue to copyedit: grammar, spelling, sentence structure.

title: Talk:Kolkata/to do


text: User talk:66.61.142.254

title: User talk:66.61.142.254


text:
Talk:Free speech zone

Why no mention of China or the 2008 Olympics?
https://www.google.com/search?q=China+Free+Speech+Zones

BillyTFried (talk) 20:24, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

What's the significance of the photos
What's up with the photos at Washington University and Muir Woods National Monument? Who authorized these free speech zones and why? Anyone know? Regards, --Jayzel 04:51, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * As to the Wash U pic - Presidential candidates are given secret service protection (and have been since June 7, 1968 - the day after RFK was assassinated). So that was likely the Secret Service.
 * As to the Muir Woods pic - the sign itself seems to imply it was the National Parks service (probably for the protection of the land itself). Raul654 04:55, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the reply. I shoulda guessed regarding the Washington U pic. That park pic is bizarre, though. It's in San Francisco so it has nothing to do with the president and Secret Service and I don't understand how that sign protects the land. I'll have to research that one tomorrow. Regards, --Jayzel 05:01, 4 January 2007 (UTC)
 * That's pretty easy to figure out. The National Parks Service is responsible for regulating traffic through the parks, to prevent damage. (Think what would happen to Yellowstone if Britney Spears had a concert there) It doesn't seem like much of a stretch to me that that mandate includes setting aside specific areas for political demonstrations. Raul654 05:10, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

NPOV tag
Sorry, but after thinking about this for a while, I have decided to add the tag. The multiple use of extended excerpts from editorials by non-neutral activists without attribution is without a doubt POV pushing (And brings it to a whole new dimention here at Wikipedia). One of the more egregious examples of this, in addition to the extended quotes repeating the wording on protestors signs and shirts, is this passage: "The policing of the protests during the 2004 Republican National Convention represents another interesting model of repression. The NYPD tracked every planned action and set up traps. As marches began, police would emerge from their hiding places—building vestibules, parking garages, or vans—and corral the dissenters with orange netting that read 'POLICE LINE – DO NOT CROSS,' establishing areas they ironically called 'ad-hoc free speech zones.' One by one, protesters were arrested and detained—some for nearly two days."

These extended excerpts desperately need to be summarized in your own words to remove the POV aspects -- if they are to be kept at all. --Jayzel 18:49, 5 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The very existence of wikipedia as a free (as in freedom) encyclopedia is a non-neutral statement about the values of knowledge and freedom. We don't present the positive side of ****** ****** to my knowledge. Why undermine freedom by downplaying the reality of Bush's behavior with weasle words? 4.250.168.43 07:43, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Reality is relative. Your "weasle words" may be another's absolute truth.  Also have to agree that this article does need cleaning up some.Jasontheperson 00:31, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't know; it doesn't seem incredibly POV to me. Free speech zones are repression. Why call them anything else? The major debate is not whether or not they are repression, but whether they are necessary repression. 66.81.49.203
 * No repression is necessary in a free country. Because the government is owned by the people and not the other way around. Hence the government is legally obligated to obey the people's wishes or otherwise commit fraud through the oath of office/service they taken and/or treason against the country. Lord Metroid 17:56, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I haven't review the article so I can't comment on the NPOV, however this is a very loaded topic. Specially considering how the federal government is just out of control post-9/11. I don't think the founding fathers had this kind of practice in mind when they wrote the 1st Amendement. Lord Metroid 17:56, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Sorry for the delayed reply, but I didn't see these comments until now.

 * I find most of the above commentary confusing to say the least. I don't really understand how having protests in a zone is "repression". In fact, with the invention of the internet there is more free expression now that any time in history. To call not being allowed to shout "Hitler" to Bush's face "repression" diminishes the meaning of the word and is, IMO, insulting to all the people of the world who are truly repressed. With that said, I would not have a problem with the above text being in the article so long as it was actually attributed to the person saying it. This is common practice in writing. When you use a quotation, both attribute it and cite it. As it and other examples in the article stand now, the quotes are offered as facts instead of the opinions they are. Regards, --Jayzel 04:54, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't really understand how having protests in a zone is "repression". - (a) It violates the constitution, and (b) is used to make dissent disappear.
 * In fact, with the invention of the internet there is more free expression now that any time in history - Until about 100 years ago, anyone could walk into the White House unannounced and have a chat with the president (Charles Guiteau nearly assassinated President Garfield this way). It was literally the peoples' house. Our leaders are more inaccessible now than at any other point in history, and this just takes that to its natural conclusion - hiding all dissent. You were saying?
 * To call not being allowed to shout "Hitler" to Bush's face "repression" diminishes the meaning of the word  - "Free speech is the rule, not the exception. The restraint to be constitutional must be based on more than fear, on more than passionate opposition against the speech, on more than a revolted dislike for its contents. There must be some immediate injury to society that is likely if speech is allowed." - William O. Douglas
 * As far as issues relating to statements in this article, I will be happy to add statements defending the use of the zones when someone finds them. The Secret Service denies it uses them to quash dissent (as is stated - repeatedly - in the article) but the simple matter is that their actions do not coincide with their words. And nobody in the media is defending them. Raul654 01:27, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * this might be a possibility. But cleaning up the article by replacing partisan sources with more reliable sources where possible, and adding some serious articles that give a good overview of the history of FSZs is probably a higher priority. Andjam 01:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * with the possible exception of #44 (The Marquett Warrior, a blog about Marquett University), every single sourced cited by this article is reliable. Raul654 02:57, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * (I guess we have different ideas of what a reliable source is) Funeral protest ban passes Senate is another case where buffer zones are supported. Andjam 03:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

I attributed the quote in question, therefore I removed the NPOV tag. That wasn't very difficult now, was it? --Jayzel 02:13, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

In the Criticism section, this line: 'The Department of Homeland Security "has even gone so far as to tell local police departments to regard critics of the War on Terrorism as potential terrorists themselves."' One of the sources is a blog of dubious authority and the other is a reprint of the AC article it cites (and which is cited on the very next line). As such, both cites should probably be stricken from this line. Also, the line itself is factually incorrect: Mike van Winkle is a spokesman for CATIC (part of the California DoJ, i.e. not DHS) and his statement (while worrying in a lot of ways) was PR fluff intended to undermine critics of tear gassing at an Oakland protest and not serious direction for PD. Winkle, as a PR man, is also very careful to couch things in weasel words ('you can make an easy kind of a link that...') and doesn't refer to WoT critics in general. There is a quote that better fits: 'In a May 2003 terrorist advisory, the Homeland Security Department warned local law enforcement agencies to keep an eye on anyone who “expressed dislike of attitudes and decisions of the U.S. government.”' That's a little different, but it dovetails nicely with more recent criticisms of the DHS for similar statements in its 'Rightwing Extremism' report. It also belongs as a criticism of the DHS (whose article...doesn't mention this stuff at all) and not here. - Anon —Preceding unsigned comment added by 108.9.109.213 (talk) 08:46, 30 May 2010 (UTC)

Muzzle award
With regards to the mention of the muzzle award, the organisation currently lacks a wikipedia entry, and the citation given is from the organisation's web site. How would a reviewer (without doing their own original research) be able to judge that the award given by this organisation is notable? Andjam 04:17, 16 February 2007 (UTC)

Reverted edit
this edit got rolled back. I had a look at the IP's edit history, and it seems to be non-vandalistic (for example, it added specific information on a flag desecration event). The edit to this article removed a quotation of several sentences which promoted a certain POV. Andjam 01:09, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * With the exception of the first sentence, every single sentence in that edit is a simple declaratory sentence that is objectively true. Removing large chucks of sourced material is vandalism. Not to mention the fact that removing it makes this article less informative. Raul654 01:16, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Sourced or reliably sourced? Andjam 01:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Removing large chucks of sourced material is vandalism. Do you have a link to show that policy? I am having my own problem with an editor deleting large chunks of sourced text from an article. --Jayzel 02:15, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia articles should rely on reliable, published secondary sources wherever possible.
 * Secondary sources are documents or people that summarize, analyze and/or interpret other material, usually primary source material. These are academics, journalists, and other researchers, and the papers and books they produce. A journalist's description of a traffic accident he did not witness, or the analysis and commentary of a president's speech, are secondary sources. Wikipedia articles should rely on reliable, published secondary sources wherever possible. This means that we only publish the opinions of reliable authors, and not the opinions of Wikipedians who have read and interpreted primary source material for themselves. - Attribution
 * Nonviolent activist magazine, from which the quote originated, is a reliable source, as defined by Wikipedia policy. Raul654 01:29, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Reliable_sources/examples:
 * Websites and publications of political parties, religious groups, anti-religious groups, or any other partisan group, may exhibit bias and should be treated with caution. Neither political affiliation nor religious belief stated in these sources are in themselves a reason not to use them, as these websites can be used to present the viewpoints of these groups, if properly attributed. Such sources should be presented alongside references from other sources in order to maintain a neutral point of view.
 * If you were characterizing the protestors, that'd be fine, but you were trying to cite them as the source on what happened at the protest. Andjam 03:55, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Jim Hightower article
The Jim Hightower article cited doesn't seem to be giving a full history of free speech zones, and doesn't seem to be a reliable NPOV source. Andjam 17:04, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * There is no requirement that sources give the full history of the topic, or that they be neutral. As far as reliablility, yes, The Nation is a reliable source. Raul654 17:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Arrested Development
Maybe a quick mention of the reference to the free speech zone made in Fox's Arrested Development? I would add it to the article, but I don't want to reduce credibility, or add pop culture references to a serious topic. I do however think that Arrested Development takes the topic on in a satirical manner that makes it noteworthy.--155.212.206.162 14:14, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

Youtube
Youtube is not a reliable source, according to this, unless the author itself a trusted expert. Andjam 00:26, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Is the ACLU itself reliable either? They seem to be pretty biased, by definition. (Source 4, possible others.) --72.94.158.86 (talk) 21:41, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

In Canada
Free Speech Zones have now appeared in Canada; I have tentatively added a mention of this just before the Criticism section, since the same criticisms apply. I think it's a good idea to change the History section to "U.S. History" now that this damnable Orwellian practice seems to be spreading. I'm actually quite surprised this article is very short, considering the impact of the subject matter. -MarkBaker —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.82.164.4 (talk) 08:47, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * I've moved the Canada mention into a "In other countries" section at the bottom. As far as the article length, I'm pretty much the only person person who has contributed significantly to it. Raul654 08:50, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks Raul654, indeed the move makes good sense. And thanks for the significant contribution here.  I suspect it won't be long until we (Canada) have the full fenced-in version here, especially with the Olympics coming in 2010.NormanBrown 21:56, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Historical usage should be listed first
Free speech zones are a topic with much broader depth than their usage by the Bush administration. Even today they're still used at universities even when the President is nowhere nere. Accordingly, the history and origins of their usage should come first in the article, especially in the lead. As it's written, the article reads like the non-Bush uses are merely an afterthought. Scott Ritchie 00:01, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Contradiction
The second paragraph of the intro opens with "Free speech zones are created by the Secret Service for President George W. Bush and other members of his administration." Immediately to the right of this sentence is a picture of a zone with a caption stating that it was from the 2004 Democratic Convention. So is the caption wrong or the sentence? KnightLago 01:29, 1 October 2007 (UTC)
 * (As the person who wrote it) That sentence should be tweaked. That's clearly their most prominent use (which is what this article used to say; people complained). In the broadest sense, they are created by people holding some kind of gathering in order (nominally) to protect the people gathering from possible hostilities with protesters; in reality, they are used to put protesters out of sight and out of mind. Raul654 01:34, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

Perhaps instead of quickly pointing the finger at President Bush, the article also state popularization of Free Speech zones were a product of the Clinton administration, since that is the president that made them popular. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.118.40.76 (talk) 11:27, 9 July 2008 (UTC)

V for Validity
The validity of this page is highly questionable due to those images without documented sources, and I would like to see them either documented properly or removed. There are plenty of links for the ACLU fighting against this, why are they not on this page? I would like these stories included, they are a testimony to these events, specifically from the ACLU and other more credible organizations.

There is quality audio on http://www.scpronet.com/, someone please add this as well, I am partisan against this issue and feel that my bias will inhibit this article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.107.240.1 (talk) 17:22, 9 October 2007 (UTC)
 * There are lot of other pictures of the DNC's Boston Free Speech zone that quite easily confirm the validity of the ones here:  . Raul654 01:32, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

Similar restrictions
Before the article gets nominated for featured article status again, would it be possible to include information on legislation against "protesting" close to abortion clinics (eg Mass. Senate OK's expanded limits on abortion protesters (and the ACLU's position on it) and possibly on legislation (or attempts at legislation) against the picketing of funerals?

One benefit to writing about legislation is that people are more likely to speak openly as to why they are or aren't in favor of restrictions.

I'm against "free speech zones" for presidential visits, but I think that in order for them to stop, we have to understand in general why people support restrictions on protesting, and indicate that "free speech zones" are not a new phenomenon.

Thanks, Andjam 18:13, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * What you have described are not free speech zones - they are exclusion zones. A free speech zone is an area that protesters are required to go to; an exclusion zone is an area that protectors cannot protest in. The existence in an area of a free speech zone turns everywhere outside the free speech zone into an exclusion zone - that's why they are objectionable. Raul654 19:49, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok. Is there currently an article on exclusion zones? Thanks, Andjam 22:39, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * In the sense you have described (involving protesters), no, we have no such article. Exclusion zone (correctly) redirects to Zone of alienation, which is the Chernobyl exclusion zone (the 30 kilometer radioactive area around Chernobyl where nobody is supposed to live or go). Raul654 00:48, 28 October 2007 (UTC)
 * I have converted the redirect into a real article. Raul654 21:09, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks. Andjam 05:58, 10 November 2007 (UTC)

Restricted zones for protesters in Copenhagen
There seems to be something like a FSZ set up by local authorities in Copenhagen, which maybe deserves to be explained here. The police there had this idea of setting up a venue for the protesters, but then raided the venue at night. Cool trick, huh? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.77.141.130 (talk) 13:11, 12 December 2009 (UTC)

Definition of Abridged
The openening Sentence in this article should do more to highlight the controversy of having such free speech zones. The first paragraph merely describes how it was justified legally. Others don't believe this to hold up. I think inclusion that "abridged" actually means to place limits on, and the defining of the location, time and duration of free speech is obviously applying limits to it.

(different poster from above unsigned comment) I'm pretty new to wikipedia and don't know all of the rules, but the opening section of this article needs editing, in my opinion. The text of the first amendment is as follows:

“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”

The opening section of this article states:

“"Congress shall make no law... abridging... the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The existence of free speech zones is based on U.S. court decisions stipulating that the government may regulate the time, place, and manner—but not content—of expression.”

What it does here is conveniently leave bits out, ostensibly in order to be concise, but effectively alters the grammar and meaning of the amendment. The altered meaning seems to suggest that the existence of "free speech" zones or legislation pertaining to them is within the realm of government's jurisdiction. Here's a simple way of showing the meaning of this amendment:

“Congress shall make no law respecting:

1) an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or

2) abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or

3) the right of people to peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.”

These are three distinct concepts about which no laws shall be made by the federal government, according to the constitution. The amendment states that congress has no lawful right to have created laws regarding limiting free speech in any way, and no lawful right to create laws regarding people's right to peaceably assemble, petition, protest, etc..

The use of the word "abridge" has been taken out of context. It has been made to appear as if it is lawful and fine for the time, place, and manner of speech and protest to be under the control of the federal government, but that the word abridge only protects the content of the speech. It is misleading, and deceptive for two reasons. The first is that if you are not allowed to abridge something, it means:

“Function: transitive verb

1 a archaic : deprive b : to reduce in scope : diminish

2 : to shorten in duration or extent

3 : to shorten by omission of words without sacrifice of sense”

You pretty much can't modify it at all. If you limit the time, place, and/or manner of speech, that is modification. It is abridging speech, which is unlawful. The second reason is that 'abridge' is only used by the amendment in reference to freedom of speech and of the press - the right to protest is completely protected from any federal laws whatsoever.

I'm not trying to debate the validity of free speech zones. I know that the talk page is not a forum for discussing that kind of thing. What I am saying, though, is that the article is currently in such a form that it obfuscates the lawful basis for the existence of free-speech zones, and this needs to be fixed.

I propose it be changed to include the full text of the amendment, and that the court decisions referenced be cited at the end of the sentence.

I would be more than happy to make the edits myself without having had to rant, but somebody has locked/protected the article on wikipedia, the free encyclopedia that anybody can edit, so that I cannot edit it. What is the process involved in being able to edit locked articles on this allegedly freely editable encyclopedia? If it requires me to make x number of edits or to have been a member for x amount of months, I'm not sure just how free that is. I'm not going to go randomly edit articles i know nothing about, just so i can rack up enough brownie points to edit a protected article. Is that the only way??Mumberthrax (talk) 22:43, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Free Speech Zone article locked? Way to go Wikipedia!
Free Speech Zone article locked? Way to go Wikipedia!

Never mind the lies on Wikipedia about 9/11 and Global Warming either!

What's the use in reading Wikipedia anymore? It's been overrun by mainstream propaganda. 67.214.228.98 (talk) 22:16, 29 April 2010 (UTC)

18 USC 1752 updated
18 USC 1752 now updated, waiting for WP:RS to announce signed. Federal Restricted Buildings and Grounds Improvement Act of 2011 was presented on March 1 to Obama. Since Thomas.Loc.gov refers us to this copy of the Federal Code which looks updated, it gives the impression it quietly has been signed into law. The Cornell Law version was timing out when went to it.

In short it would increase the number of "secure areas" where protests are not allowed and ramp up the fines and prison sentences for breaking the law, even if there was no way you would know a Secret Service "protected" person was in the building or grounds. The bottom line: carry a weapon (nail scissor?) or commit bodily harm (bump into/throw a pie?) and get not more than 10 years and in "any other case" (accidentally protesting some minor official without secret service protection who just happens to be in vicinity of one with it) "not more than one year, or both, in any other case." If there is no effective date explicitly stated, I assume it goes into affect immediately. So something to add. Or does there need to be an article called 18 USC 1752?? CarolMooreDC 21:30, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Factual error in the article, but I can't change it because it's locked.
"After a bench trial, Bursey was convicted of the offense of trespassing, but judge Bristow Marchant..." This is incorrect. He was never convicted of trespassing. Under South Carolina law, trespassing on public land is not illegal, and the charges were quickly dropped. He was prosecuted and found guilty under section 1752 of title 18, United States Code. I would be grateful if someone would amend this post-haste. I would do it myself, but I can't remember my password. 75.170.35.131 (talk) 02:26, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Forgot to include my sources: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2004/01/04/INGPQ40MB81.DTL&ao=all and http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2004/09/thou_dost_protest_too_much.html 75.170.35.131 (talk) 02:32, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Aha! finally remembered my password, but my account isn't confirmed so I still can't edit it. :( Monkeyfoetus (talk) 02:35, 21 March 2012 (UTC)

Ideological framing of the opening sentence

 * Free speech zones [...] are areas set aside in public places for political activists to exercise their right of free speech [...]

The ideological framing of the opening sentence is appaling! These zones are not "set aside to exercise the right of free speech", American citizens are restricted to these zones in their right to exercise the First Amendment. --89.0.229.184 (talk) 21:12, 3 July 2013 (UTC)
 * That's exactly correct. Wikipedia has a lot of framing bias like this. Viriditas (talk) 19:13, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
 * While I think the best way to present things isn't perfectly clear, I agree with the direction you're taking, but I think it was a bit too heavy-handed, so I edited the article to make things a bit clearer while preserving the strong indication of restriction. Did I go too far over the top with the "forcing", or was that justified? I think that it's probably best to immediately convey that the areas are used for restriction, but not directly, which is a crucial distinction that your wording kind of mangled (your comment here would have worked better than your edit, even just the to would have worked better). Thank you for changing it, excellent use of WP:BOLD editing! Garzfoth (talk) 22:26, 3 July 2015 (UTC)
 * Reading the opening sentence, it seems to have been turned around to be biased in the other direction; the use of "restrict" and "force" would be the view of those who dislike or oppose the use of such areas. I agree that the prior wording used (cited above by the IP user) was also biased; is there some way to be more neutral or accommodate both sides? 331dot (talk) 10:33, 21 July 2015 (UTC)

Minor Edits Needed
Since the article is locked, I can't fix these minor problems:

Broken/Red links - James Strom Thurmond Jr.; ACORN v. Secret Service;  ACORN v. Philadelphia;  ACLU of Pennsylvania; Stefan Presser;  Rank v. Jenkins; presidential advance manual

Reference errors - reference 4 and 37 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.119.202.213 (talk) 23:37, 13 December 2016 (UTC)

The free speech zone at the 2004 Democratic National Convention
This looks like propaganda, though perhaps there are no images available for Republican free speech zones. The use of these images appears to violate Wikipedia's neutrality guidelines. Shouldn't they be deleted unless another image is added? Rwood128 (talk) 17:05, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

Hope the revised captions help. Rwood128 (talk) 17:19, 20 November 2017 (UTC)

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Cannot edit
The anti-spam (more like anti-editing bot) seems to believe i'm some kind of vandal. I am not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joujyuze (talk • contribs) 20:14, 15 May 2021 (UTC)
 * ClueBot does make mistakes, though not very often, and I am sorry you were hit by this. You can report the false positive [here]. As for your question, yes, there has to be an ellipsis as the text is presented as a quote and there are omitted words. Sjö (talk) 06:37, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Free speech zone


text:
Water ionizer

A water ionizer (also known as an alkaline ionizer) is a home appliance which claims to raise the pH of drinking water by using electrolysis to separate the incoming water stream into acidic and alkaline components. The treated water is called alkaline water. Proponents claim that consumption of alkaline water results in a variety of health benefits, making it similar to the alternative health practice of alkaline diets. Such claims violate basic principles of chemistry and physiology. There is no medical evidence for any health benefits of alkaline water. Extensive scientific evidence has completely debunked these claims.

The machines originally became popular in Japan and other East Asian countries before becoming available in the U.S. and Europe.

Health claims
Water ionizers are often marketed on the basis of health claims which are normally focused on their putative ability to make water more alkaline. A wide variety of benefits have been claimed, including the ability to slow aging, prevent disease, give the body more energy, and offset alleged effects of acidic foods.

There is no empirical evidence to support these claims, nor the claims that drinking ionized water will have a noticeable effect on the body. Drinking ionized water or alkaline water does not alter the body's pH due to acid-base homeostasis. Additionally, marketers have inaccurately claimed that the process of electrolysis changes the structure of water from large non-bioavailable water clusters to small bioavailable water clusters, called "micro clusters".

Some proponents of alkaline water and the alkaline diet as a whole claim a link between alkaline intake and cancer prevention; no scientific evidence exists for such a connection, and as such, several cancer societies have denounced this claim.

Operation
Despite being described as 'water ionizers', the machines are designed to work as water electrolyzers. This is an electrochemical process in which water is split to form hydrogen and oxygen by an electric current. In some machines, the process produces calcium hydroxide and hydrochloric acid through the use of an ion-exchange membrane.

The effectiveness of the process is debatable because electrolysis requires significant amounts of time and power; hence, the amount of hydroxide that could be generated in a fast-moving stream of water such as a running tap would be minimal at best. Additionally, the process of reversing the reaction requires much less energy, so if the area between the alkaline and acidic water is at least semi-permeable, the water will undergo another reaction that just leaves neutral water.

title: Water ionizer


text:
Brad Miller (basketball)

Bradley Alan Miller (born April 12, 1976) is an American former professional basketball player. The two-time NBA All-Star played for six National Basketball Association (NBA) teams.

College career
After playing prep school basketball for a season in Maine at MCI Maine Central Institute, Miller returned to his home state to attend Purdue University, located in West Lafayette, Indiana, where he played under head coach Gene Keady and assistant coaches Bruce Weber and Frank Kendrick. During his freshman season, along with senior Cuonzo Martin, he led the Boilermakers to a 25–7 record. Along the way, he was part of a Big Ten Conference Title and an NCAA Second Round appearance. He averaged 6.5 points and 5.4 rebounds a game.

During his sophomore season, Miller helped lead Purdue, along with fellow sophomore Chad Austin, to a three-peat conference title and a consecutive NCAA Second Round appearance. The Boilers finished the season with a 26–6 overall record. Miller averaged 9.6 points and 5.5 rebounds on the season.

Miller's junior season showed more progress than the prior season, averaging 14.3 points and 8.3 rebounds a game. Finishing second in the conference, Miller, along with teammate and former NBA player Brian Cardinal, helped the Boilers to a third straight NCAA Second Round finish. They beat Rhode Island in overtime, where Brad scored 31 points, grabbed eight rebounds and set a school tournament record with made/attempted free throws, going 15–21 from the line. He finished his junior season with an 18–12 record. Throughout his junior year, Miller became the only center in Purdue history to lead the team in assists.

Miller had his best college season during his senior year, helping with a 28–8 record. Averaging 17.2 points and 8.8 rebounds in his last season at Purdue, he led the Boilermakers to a Sweet Sixteen appearance and a 2nd overall seed in the NCAA Tournament. Miller set a school tournament record with 6 steals in a win against Delaware. His last collegiate game was a loss to Stanford. Miller's biggest game of his senior season came against Michigan State, where he scored 30 points and pulled down 12 rebounds to force Michigan State to share their Big Ten crown.

During his career at Purdue, Miller became one of only six players (Joe Barry Carroll, Terry Dischinger, Walter Jordan, Robbie Hummel, and Zach Edey) to record 800 rebounds and the first player in school history to have 1,500 points, 800 rebounds, and 250 assists.

Livorno (1998)
After college, because of the NBA lockout, Miller started his career in the Italian Serie A with Bini Viaggi Livorno for three months.

Charlotte Hornets (1999–2000)
Miller was then signed by the Charlotte Hornets as an undrafted free agent in 1999. He played for the Hornets for two seasons. On March 24, 1999, he had 25 points, going 9–9 shooting and 7–7 from the line. On May 5, 1999 scored a season high 32 points to go along with 13 rebounds in a win against the Boston Celtics. The Hornets made it to the playoffs the following season where they lost 1–3 to the Philadelphia 76ers. In his first playoff series, Miller averaged 7.5 points on 52 percent shooting.

Chicago Bulls (2000–2002)
After two seasons with the Hornets, Miller signed with the Chicago Bulls as a free agent. In January 2002, he was involved in an on-court altercation with center Shaquille O'Neal of the Los Angeles Lakers. After he and Charles Oakley gave a hard foul on O'Neal, Miller walked away as O'Neal swung at the back of his head; O'Neal would be suspended three games. Nearly doubling his playing time with the Bulls, he averaged 12.7 points a game, shooting 46 percent during the 2001–02 season.

Indiana Pacers (2002–2003)
In February 2002, Miller was traded by the Bulls with Ron Mercer, Ron Artest (now Metta Sandiford-Artest) and Kevin Ollie to the Indiana Pacers for Jalen Rose, Travis Best, Norman Richardson, and a second-round draft pick. He wrapped up the 2001–02 season with a 15.1 points and 8.2 rebounds per game average. During his first and only complete season with the Pacers, he made his first NBA All-Star Team becoming one of the first undrafted players to be named an All-Star along with the Detroit Pistons' Ben Wallace the same year. The Pacers clinched a playoff berth for the 6th season in a row, where they lost to the Celtics, 2–4.

Sacramento Kings (2003–2009)
During the 2003 offseason, Miller was involved in a sign-and-trade with the Sacramento Kings. He was signed to a multi-year deal by Indiana and then traded to the Kings in exchange for Scot Pollard. In the same trade, the Kings sent Hedo Türkoğlu to San Antonio Spurs, San Antonio traded Danny Ferry to Indiana and Indiana traded Ron Mercer to San Antonio. While signing with the Kings, Miller stated, "I wanted to stay with Indiana but my agent said that the money I could make with Sacramento was just too good to pass up and I would never get this kind of contract again." On November 21, 2003, Miller recorded his first career triple-double with 22 points, 14 rebounds, and 10 assists in a win over the Orlando Magic. Less than a month later, Miller recorded another triple-double with 18 points, 15 rebounds and 10 assists. Averaging 14.1 points and 10.3 rebounds in his first season with the Kings, he was voted to back-to-back NBA All-Star Game appearances. In the playoffs, Sacramento lost the Western Conference Semifinals 3–4 to the Minnesota Timberwolves.

Miller appeared in only 56 games during his second season in Sacramento, yet averaging his career high of 15.6 points a game. On February 2, 2005 Miller scored a career-high 38 points to go along with 17 rebounds in a win over the Golden State Warriors. Two days later scored his first back-to-back 30 points game with 35 against the New York Knicks. In the playoffs, Miller averaged a career-high 11.2 points but the Kings lost 1–4 to the Seattle SuperSonics in the first round. In middle of the 2005–06 season, he became the first center since Sam Lacey in 1981 to record back-to-back double-doubles in both points and assists. After a career best 1,182 points scored during the season, the following 2006–07 season brought lower averages and totals of the previous five years. On April 10, 2007 Miller recorded his third career triple-double with 17 points, 10 rebounds and a career-high 11 assist.

On January 14, 2009, Miller recorded his first 30/20 game with 30 points and a career-high 22 rebounds in a win over the Golden State Warriors. He finished his five and a half seasons with the Kings averaging just over 13 points, 8 rebounds, and 4 assists a game.

Return to Chicago (2009–2010)
On February 18, 2009, the Kings reached a tentative agreement to trade Miller and John Salmons to the Chicago Bulls for Drew Gooden, Andrés Nocioni, Michael Ruffin (later traded to Portland Trail Blazers for Ike Diogu) and Cedric Simmons. As a veteran presence on a young team, Miller added depth in the paint with forward/center Joakim Noah to compete in the 2009 NBA Playoffs after a two-year absence of postseason play while with the Kings. On April 28, Miller received a busted lip by Boston Celtics guard Rajon Rondo, and missed game-decisive free-throws at the end of game 5 of the Eastern Conference First Round. During game six of the 7-overtime series and after receiving 7 stitches for his lip, he posted a double-double with 23 points and 10 rebounds, shooting 8 for 9 from the floor. Miller averaged 10.3 points, 7.9 rebounds, and 1.3 assists during the seven-game series in the 2009 Playoffs. He made 5 of 7 three point field goals (71.4%) and shot 79.2 percent from the free throw line.

Houston Rockets (2010–2011)
On July 17, 2010, Miller signed a three-year contract with the Houston Rockets, worth $15 million. He was expected to back up Yao Ming and provide the Rockets a valuable insurance policy. On November 12, 2010, in Miller's first start after coming to the Rockets, he scored 23 points, grabbed 8 rebounds, and gave out 5 assists. On December 3, 2010, Miller tied his season-high 23 points, going a perfect 7-7 from the field, including 3-3 from downtown, and 6-7 from the foul line.

Minnesota Timberwolves (2011–2012)
During the 2011 NBA Draft, Miller was traded to the Minnesota Timberwolves, along with the rights of Nikola Mirotić, in a deal that sent the rights of Donatas Motiejunas and Jonny Flynn to Houston. Due to microfracture knee surgery on his left knee while a member of the Rockets in May 2011, he was doubtful to begin playing for the Wolves at the projected start of the 2011-12 season (which was delayed due to the owners' lockout) - or indeed at all.

On January 12, 2012, Miller practiced with the team for the first time, strictly in half-court situations to protect his knee. He made his debut with the team on January 29, 2012. In an interview with Yahoo! Sports, he announced that the 2011-2012 season would be his final season. After the season, however, Miller's agent said that Miller was undecided about retiring.

On July 13, 2012, Miller was traded to the New Orleans Hornets, then traded to the Phoenix Suns as part of a three-team deal on July 27, 2012. He was waived by the Suns on August 15, 2012, when the team signed Jermaine O'Neal. Miller later reaffirmed his decision to retire.

International career
Shortly after finishing his college career, Brad joined the US national team in the 1998 FIBA World Championship. During the time of the NBA lockout, there were no players from the league on the team. With fellow former Purdue standout Jimmy Oliver, Miller led the USA team to the bronze medal. He played under NBA coach Rudy Tomjanovich.

Miller was selected as a member of the U.S. squad that competed in the 2006 FIBA World Championship, where he played along with fellow NBA players, such as LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony and Dwight Howard. After much hype over the improvement of the team, the tournament ended in disappointment with a loss to Greece in the semifinal game. The team finished with the bronze medal by defeating Argentina. Despite pre-tournament assertions that the U.S. needed a good-shooting big man like Miller, he rarely played in the tournament and did not log any playing time in the decisive semifinal loss. The team was coached by Duke's head coach Mike Krzyzewski.

Career notes
Despite his size, Miller did not fit the mold of a traditional center. He only averaged double-digit rebounds once in his career and never averaged more than 1.2 blocks per season.

In 2005–2006, Miller averaged 4.7 assists per game, good for 29th in the league but far above what other centers averaged (Ben Wallace was second among centers with 1.9 APG). The Princeton offense run by the Kings both allowed and demanded Miller to be a good passer, and he was typically recognized as one of the best-passing big men in the league. Miller also added a three-point shot to his game.

title: Brad Miller (basketball)


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Alain Boire

Alain Boire (born June 23, 1971) is a Quebec politician.

Born in Montreal, Quebec, Boire was a Bloc Québécois member of the House of Commons of Canada. He represented the district of Beauharnois—Salaberry from 2004 to 2006. He was the Bloc critic of Youth. He is a former businessman, electrician and technician. He lost his nomination for the 2006 election.

title: Alain Boire


text:
Józef Bem

Józef Zachariasz Bem (Bem József, Murat Pasha; 14 March 1794 – 10 December 1850) was a Polish engineer and general, an Ottoman pasha and a national hero of Poland and Hungary, and a figure intertwined with other European patriotic movements. Like Tadeusz Kościuszko (who fought in the American War of Independence) and Jan Henryk Dąbrowski (who fought alongside Napoleon Bonaparte in Italy and in the French Invasion of Russia), Bem fought outside Poland's borders anywhere his leadership and military skills were needed.

Early life
He was born on 14 March 1794 in Tarnów in Galicia, the area of Poland that had become part of the Habsburg monarchy through the First Partition in 1772. After the creation of the Duchy of Warsaw from the territories captured by Napoleon, he moved with his parents to Kraków, where after finishing military school (where he distinguished himself in mathematics) he joined the ducal forces as a fifteen-year-old cadet. He joined a Polish artillery regiment as a sub-lieutenant and then lieutenant in the French service, took part in the French invasion of Russia (1812), and subsequently distinguished himself in the defence of Danzig (Gdańsk) (January – November 1813), winning the Knight's Cross of the Legion d'honneur.

After the Congress of Vienna in 1815, the Duchy of Warsaw was transformed into the constitutional Kingdom of Poland, a dependent territory of the Russian Empire, and Bem became a teacher at a military college. There he carried out research on a newly designed rocket-like missile, publishing his research with extensive illustrations.

Bem became involved in a political conspiracy to restore Poland to full independence, but, when his membership in a secret patriotic organisation was discovered, he was demoted and sentenced (in 1822) to one year in prison. Although the sentence was suspended, Bem resigned his commission and moved to Galicia. There he researched steam engines and their application, and again published his results. Bem lived in Lwów (now Lviv) and Brody until 1830, and planned on writing a treatise on the subject.

November Uprising
When the November Uprising, an insurrection for Polish independence, broke out on 29 November 1830 against the Russian Empire, Bem immediately joined the Polish insurgents. He arrived in Warsaw, was given a major's commission and the command of the 4th Light Cavalry Battalion, which he led during the Battles of Iganie and Ostrołęka. During the Battle of Ostrołęka, Bem's forces bravely charged the Russian opponents. Although the Polish army suffered a serious defeat with a loss of 6,000 men, Bem's actions prevented the destruction of the entire army. For his valour on the battlefield, Bem was awarded the Virtuti Militari Golden Cross and promoted to the rank of Brigadier General. He was steadfastly against capitulation until the very end of the Uprising, during the desperate defence of Warsaw against Prince Paskievich (27 September 1831). Nonetheless, the Polish army was eventually compelled to lay down arms on 5 October 1831, and crossed the Russian–Prussian partitional border under the command of General Maciej Rybiński in the Great Emigration.

First exile
Bem then escaped to Paris, where he supported himself by teaching mathematics. In France, he published his next work, on the national uprising in Poland, in which he not only gave an appraisal of the 1831 insurrection, but also tried to present a programme for the continuation of the struggle for the country's freedom. During his stay in France, he collaborated with the Hôtel Lambert organization and was a member of the Historical and Literary Society.

In 1833 he went to Portugal to assist the liberal Dom Pedro against the reactionary Dom Miguel, but abandoned the idea when it was found that a Polish legion could not be formed there. While in Portugal he was the target of an assassination attempt carried out by Russian agents.

1848 hero
A wider field for his activity presented itself in 1848 due to the Austrian Revolution in the Habsburg Empire. First he attempted to hold Vienna against the imperial troops of Alfred I, Prince of Windisch-Grätz, and, after the capitulation, hastened to Pressburg (Pozsony, today Bratislava, Slovakia) to offer his services to Lajos Kossuth, first defending himself, in a long speech, from the accusations of "treachery to the Polish cause" and "aristocratic tendencies" — which the more fanatical section of the Polish émigré Radicals repeatedly brought against him. He was entrusted with the defence of Transylvania at the end of 1848, and in 1849, as General of the Székely troops, he performed miracles with his little army, notably at the bridge of Piski (now Simeria, Romania) on 9 February, where, after fighting all day, he drove back an immense force of pursuers.

After relieving Transylvania he was sent to drive the Austrian General Anton Freiherr von Puchner out of the Banat region. Bem defeated von Puchner at Orsova (now Orșova) on 16 May, but the Russian invasion forced Bem to retreat to Transylvania. From 12 to 22 July Bem was fighting continually, but finally, on 31 July 1849, his army was annihilated by overwhelming numbers in the Battle of Segesvár (now Sighişoara); Bem escaped after feigning death. He fought a fresh action at Nagycsür (now Șura Mare) on 6 August, and contrived to bring his fragmented army to the Battle of Temesvár (now Timișoara), to aid the hard-pressed General Henryk Dembiński. Bem was in command and was seriously wounded in the last pitched battle of the war, fought there on 9 August.

Second exile and death
On the collapse of the rebellion he fled to the Ottoman Empire, where he adopted Islam, and served as Governor of Aleppo under the name of Murad Paşa/Pasha. His last military victory was defeating Bedouins sieging the city of Aleppo. On 10 December 1850, he died of malaria.

Burial and grave
Bem was buried in a military cemetery in Aleppo. In 1926 a committee was formed to bring his body back to Poland. His mausoleum was designed by Adolf Szyszko-Bohusz and built on an island in a pond, in Strzelecki Park in Tarnów. Since Bem has converted to Islam, as was required for his career in the Ottoman Empire, he couldn't be buried in Catholic ground, but the unique design of this mausoleum – a rectangular sarcophagus standing on six Corinthian columns, above ground – made it possible for him to be buried in his hometown. On the longer side walls of the sarcophagus there are inscriptions: Józef Bem on the front, Bem apó, a magyar szabadságharc legnagyobb hadvezére 1848–1849 ("Grandpa Bem, greatest leader of the Hungarian fight for freedom 1848–1849" in Hungarian) on the back. On the shorter side walls فريق مراد باشا ("Lt. General Murat Pasha") is written on one side and the years 1794, 1850 and 1929 (the years of his birth, death and reburial, respectively) on the other.

The mausoleum has been completed in July 1928. Bem was exhumed on 20 June 1929. Before the coffin reached Tarnów, it was displayed to the public at the National Museum in Budapest, and then in the Wawel Castle in Kraków. The funeral ceremony of General Józef Bem in Tarnów took place on 30 June 1929. The next day, the coffin, after being moved to the building of the Rifle Society, was opened for an anthropological research to be carried out. The skull was too fragile to make a plaster cast. On 6 July in the morning, after the construction of a special scaffolding, the coffin was lifted with cranes to the top of the mausoleum and placed in the sarcophagus, and the side wall was bricked up.

Character and legacy
Bem was a man respected for his courage and heroic temper, both of which were in contrast with his small stature. His influence is said to have been magnetic: although none of his Székely subordinates understood the language he spoke, most revered him. As a soldier Bem was remarkable for his excellent handling of artillery and the rapidity of his marches. In Hungarian, he is often referred to affectionately as "Bem apó", which roughly translates into "Grandpa Bem" or "Old Man Bem".

In the 1930s Hungary and Poland each had a regiment of mounted artillery named for him. To date, Bem remains the most famous Muslim in both countries, partly due to his role in the fight for independence in both states.

A statue to his honour has been erected at Marosvásárhely (now Târgu-Mureş, Romania) but he lives still more enduringly in the verses of the Hungarian national poet Sándor Petőfi, who fell in the fatal action of 31 July 1849 at the Battle of Segesvár.

The Hungarian Revolution of 1956 (which originally started as a sympathy protest, supporting the Polish Poznań protests) began on 23 October with a protest at the foot of the Bem Statue in Budapest.

Works
Józef Bem published also in French, Polish and German languages books about the history of Poland, technology and military aspects:

 * Józef Bem – "La Pologne dans ses anciennes limites et l'empire des Russies" 1836
 * Józef Bem - "Notes sur les fusées incendiaires"
 * Józef Bem – "Erfahrungen über die Congrevischen Raketen" (Uwagi o rakietach zapalających, Practical Knowledge of Incendiary Rockets) 1820
 * Józef Bem – "O machinach parowych" (About Steam Engines)
 * Józef Bem – "Węgrzy i Polacy w dzisiejszym stanie Europy" (Hungarians and Poles in Contemporary Europe)
 * Józef Bem – "O powstaniu narodowym" (About National Uprising)

Honors

 * Three commemorative postage stamps were issued on 10 December 1950 by Hungary on account of his death centenary.
 * A souvenir sheet was issued on 10 December 1950 by Hungary on Stamp Day.
 * On 15 March 1952 his stamp appears in Heroes of the 1848 Revolution series.
 * Poland issued a commemorative postage stamp on 15 July 1948 in Revolution Centenaries series.
 * Poland issued postage stamp on 10 December 1950 on his death centenary.

In popular culture
The great Polish poet Cyprian Norwid, a descendant of Jan III Sobieski, dedicated to Józef Bem the poem Bema pamięci żałobny rapsod (Funeral Rhapsody in Memory of Bem), which was subsequently used by other artists including Zbigniew Herbert and Czesław Niemen.

Since 1969 Czesław Niemen's Bema pamięci żałobny rapsod (Mourner's Rhapsody in Memory of Bem) became cult status in Central Europe and also beyond the Iron Curtain.

In 1974 an English version was re-recorded with the help of Michał Urbaniak, John Abercrombie, Jan Hammer, Rick Laird and Don Grolnick, which was published worldwide by CBS Records International.

In 1977 the Bema pamięci żałobny rapsod (Mourner's Rhapsody in Memory of Bem) intro from the 1970 initial issue was bootlegged by the West German rock band Jane as intro and reprise intro for the second side of their elegic Krautrock album Between Heaven and Hell also immediately achieving golden record status.

Józef Bem's descendants are present mainly among artists and in music related business in Poland and in exile and include the jazz singer Ewa Bem  and her brothers Aleksander Bem and the jazz guitarist Jarosław Bem.

title: Józef Bem


text:
Étienne Cabet

Étienne Cabet (January 1, 1788 – November 9, 1856) was a French philosopher and utopian socialist who founded the Icarian movement. Cabet became the most popular socialist advocate of his day, with a special appeal to artisans who were being undercut by factories. Cabet published Voyage en Icarie in French in 1839 (and in English in 1840 as Travels in Icaria), in which he proposed replacing capitalist production with workers' cooperatives. Recurrent problems with French officials (a treason conviction in 1834 resulted in five years' exile in England), led him to emigrate to the United States in 1848. Cabet founded utopian communities in Texas and Illinois, but was again undercut, this time by recurring feuds with his followers.

Early and family life
Cabet was born in Dijon, Côte-d'Or, the youngest son of a cooper from Burgundy, Claude Cabet, and his wife Francoise Berthier. He was educated as a lawyer. Cabet married Delphine Lasage on March 25, 1839 at Marylebone, London, during his exile in England, who bore a child.

Career in France
Cabet secured an appointment as attorney-general in Corsica. He represented the government of Louis Philippe, despite having headed an insurrectionary committee during the July Revolution of 1830 which led to the ouster of the "Republican Monarch" King Charles X (and the ascent of Louis Philippe). However, Cabet lost this position for his attack upon the conservatism of the government in his Histoire de la révolution de 1830. Nonetheless, in 1831, Cabet was elected to the Chamber of Deputies in France as the representative of Côte d'Or, and sat with the extreme radicals. Accused of treason in 1834 because of his bitter attacks on the government both in the history book and subsequently, Cabet was convicted and sentenced to five years' exile. He fled to England and sought political asylum. Influenced by Robert Owen, Thomas More and Charles Fourier, Cabet wrote Voyage et aventures de lord William Carisdall en Icarie ("Travel and Adventures of Lord William Carisdall in Icaria", 1840), which depicted a utopia in which a democratically elected governing body controlled all economic activity and closely supervised social life. "Icaria" is the name of his fictional country and ideal society. The nuclear family remained the only other independent unit. The book's success prompted Cabet to take steps to realize his Utopia.

In 1839, Cabet returned to France to advocate a communitarian social movement, for which he invented the term communisme. Some writers ignored Cabet's Christian influences, as described in his book Le vrai christianisme suivant Jésus Christ ("The real Christianity according to Jesus Christ", in five volumes, 1846). This book described Christ's mission to be to establish social equality, and contrasted primitive Christianity with the ecclesiasticism of Cabet's time to the disparagement of the latter. In it, Cabet argued that the kingdom of God announced by Jesus was nothing other than a communist society. The book also contained a popular history of the French Revolutions from 1789 to 1830.

In 1841 Cabet revived the Populaire (founded by him in 1833), which was widely read by French workingmen, and from 1843 to 1847 he printed an Icarian almanac, a number of controversial pamphlets as well as the above-mentioned book on Christianity. There were probably 400,000 adherents of the Icarian school.

Emigration to the United States of America
In 1847, after realizing the economic hardship caused by the depression of 1846, Cabet gave up on the notion of reforming French society. Instead, after conversations with Robert Owen and Owen's attempts to found a commune in Texas, Cabet gathered a group of followers from across France and traveled to the United States to organize an Icarian community. They entered into a social contract, making Cabet the director-in-chief for the first ten years, and embarked from Le Havre, February 3, 1848, for New Orleans, Louisiana. They expected to settle in the Red River valley in Texas. However, the Peters Land Company gave them deeds to only 320 acres of land in Denton County, Texas near what became Dallas, Texas rather than the million acres of land in the Red River Valley they expected (more than 200 miles away). The first group of emigrants ultimately returned to New Orleans; Cabet came later at the head of a second and smaller band. Neither Texas nor Louisiana proved the looked-for Utopia, and, ravaged by disease, about one-third of the colonists returned to France.

The remainder (142 men, 74 women and 64 children, although 20 died of cholera en route), moved northward along the Mississippi River to Nauvoo, Illinois, where they purchased twelve acres recently vacated by the Mormons in 1849. Cabet was unanimously elected leader, for a one-year term. The improved location enabled the experiment to develop into a successful agricultural community. Education and culture were highly valued by members. By 1855, the Nauvoo Icarian community had expanded to about 500 members with a solid agricultural base, as well as shops, three schools, flour and sawmills, a whiskey distillery, English and French newspapers, a 39 piece orchestra, choir, theater, hospital and the state's largest library (4000 volumes). Members met on Saturdays to discuss community affairs and problems, with universal male suffrage; women were allowed to speak but not vote. On Sundays members talked about ethical and moral issues, but there were no denominational religious services, only members had espoused Christianity before joining the community. Based on this success, some even considered expanding the community 200 miles west to Adair County, Iowa.

However, Cabet was forced to return to France in May 1851 to settle charges of fraud brought up by his previous followers in Europe. Although found not guilty by a French jury in July 1851, when Cabet returned to Nauvoo in July 1852, the community had changed. Some men were using tobacco and abusing alcohol, many women were adorning themselves with fancy dresses and jewelry, and families claimed land as private property. Cabet responded by issuing "Forty-Eight Rules of Conduct" on November 23, 1853, forbidding "tobacco, hard liquor, complaints about the food, and hunting and fishing 'for pleasure'" as well as demanding absolute silence in workshops and submission to him. Some described him as authoritarian or emotionally unstable; internal problems arose and worsened.

In the spring of 1855, Cabet tried to revise the colony's constitution to make him president for life, but was instead relieved of the presidency, so his followers went out on strike, and were in turn temporarily barred from the communal dining hall. Although the colony by then had 526 members and 57 more across the Mississippi River at Montrose, Iowa, it was suffering economically—dependent upon money brought by new members and subsidies from the "Le Populaire" home office in France.

Moreover, split regarding the work division and food distribution worsened during the summer and following year. Cabet published his final book, Colonie icarienne aux États-Unis d'Amérique (1856), but that failed to solve the internal problems. In October 1856, about 180 supporters and Cabet left Nauvoo in three groups for New Bremen, Missouri near St. Louis, Missouri.

Death and legacy
Cabet suffered a stroke on November 8, 1856, a few days after moving to Missouri with the last group of his followers, and soon died. He was buried at the Old Picker's Cemetery, but his remains were moved during construction of a high school on the site, and now rest at New Saint Marcus Cemetery and Mausoleum in Affton, St. Louis County, Missouri, with a gravestone funded by the French Embassy.

On February 15, 1858, the remaining Icarians settled in Cheltenham on the western edge of St. Louis, under the leadership of a lawyer named Mercadier, whom Cabet had designated as his successor. That colony would disband in 1864 (with several young men fighting in the American Civil War) and two families rejoined the Icarians in Corning, Iowa discussed below (the Cheltenham area became a neighborhood within St. Louis). Before his death, Cabet sued the Nauvoo Icarians in a local court, as well as petitioned the Illinois legislature to repeal the act that incorporated the community. The Nauvoo colony relocated to Corning, Adams County, Iowa, about 80 miles southwest of Des Moines, Iowa between 1858 and 1860, because of Illinois crop failures as well as the end of financial support from France following the Panic of 1857. The Corning Icarians prospered until another factional split in 1878, prompted by new emigrants from France, who left to establish a community in Cloverdale, California in 1883 (but "Icaria Speranza" lasted only four years). The colony at Corning disbanded in 1898, but by that time it had existed for 46 years, making it the longest non-religious communal living experiment in American history.

The library at Western Illinois University has a Center for Icarian Studies, as well as Icarian archives and papers. The Nauvoo Historical Society also has some papers and artifacts on display, and some in the town remember the Icarians during the Labor Day Grape Festival, through a historical play. The connection with grape cultivation is more symbolic than foundational, as the growing of Concord grapes in the Nauvoo area did not begin with the Icarians. It sprang from efforts by a French Catholic priest in the 1830s, and expanded in 1846 when Swiss vintner John Tanner brought the Norton grape to the area. However, Baxter's Vineyards and Winery was founded by Icarians Emile and Annette Baxter in 1857, and continues as a 5-generation old family business. It is Illinois' oldest winery.

title: Étienne Cabet