text:
Talk:National Day of the Republic of China

No sources
This article does not cite its sources. Especially needed is a source for this statement: "However, since the election of Chen Shui-bian as President of the ROC, a growing number of disgruntled Overseas Chinese people have increasingly identified themselves more with the People's Republic of China (PRC) and less with the ROC, somewhat lowering the profile of Double Tenth Day in these communities."

--Danreitz 13:14, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Anyway this unreferenced inforomation was deleted by 130.207.136.209 at 19:34, 10 October 2006. --Neo-Jay 03:29, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

Double-Ten vs. Double Tenth
In most grammar situations, it makes more sense to use a hyphen when adding numbers to a descriptive adjective, e.g. a six-year anniversary. The use of Double Tenth Holiday or Day seems to make no sense. Since the holiday is popularly known as Double-Ten, why not just replace all references to 'tenth' with '-ten'? — Preceding unsigned comment added by C estus (talk • contribs) 06:56, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

Chungcheng's repeated edits.
This post is to document User:Chungcheng's repeated edits to this article.

User:Chungcheng has repeatedly introduced the following paragraph:

 * "The Double Ten Celebrations accross the globe were a huge success This sweeping statement is unsourced and inherently unverifiable. What is a "huge success"? What do you mean "across the globe"? Is this a reference to this year's celebrations only, or elsewhere? By what criterion do you determine it to be a "huge success"? A generalisation such as this smacks of WP:OR . In San Francisco, hundreds gathered to watch the ROC flag being raised Why is this notable? When did this occur? How is this type of minutiae encyclopaedic at all? . They were also on hand to take part in celebrations at Union Square Why are the San Francisco celebrations deemed more important than activities in Taiwan? . The Republic of China also had National Day celebrations in Taipei, Taiwan. The President of the Republic of China presided over the ceremony and was cheered on by his countrymen. Again, unsourced, and blatantly untrue. Anyone who reads the news will know about the huge protests surrounding the national day celebrations this year. "

Apart from being generally encyclopaedic and blatantly wrong in sections, this paragraph is either written in the wrong tense or missing crucial information: it is written in the past tense, suggesting an event or state in the past; however, no dates or times are provided. If the paragraph was intended to reflect a continuing state of affairs, then it should be using the present tense or present perfect progressive.

Furthermore, User:Chungcheng has repeatedly deleted the following paragraph:

 * Before the sovereignty of Hong Kong was transferred to the PRC in 1997, many ROC supporters there would display patriotic and colorful flags (mainly the national flag of ROC) to celebrate Double Tenth Day. Since the transfer of sovereignty to the mainland, the anniversary of the Xinhai Revolution continues to be celebrated, but not under the "Double Tenth Day" name. Much larger festivities now occur on October 1, the National Day of the PRC.

and labelled it as "communist propaganda" without even any argument as to why he or she consider this paragraph to be inappropriate. --Sumple (Talk) 23:10, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

There is no need to mention PRC. That is communist propoganda. -ChungCheng 03:06, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

 * You have said that about 20 times so far. Now please elaborate which part of the paragraph you are trying to delete is "commuinst propaganda". --Sumple (Talk) 03:12, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

 * It is that paragraph that i keep deleting -ChungCheng 17:46, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes I can see that. Now which part is communist propaganda? and how? --Sumple (Talk) 23:47, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Where is the evidence of Hong Kong? Why dont we also add somethin about ROC double ten in PRC article about there national day? And i can give sources for San Francisco chinatown and other Double ten celebrations. -ChungCheng 00:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Which part of the paragraph are you disputing exactly? That Hong Kong's sovereignty was transferred to the PRC in 1997? Or that the anniversary of the Xinhai Revolution continues to be celebrated? If you want more citations, add a Fact tag. You don't just go into an article and delete whatever information offends your political tastebuds.
 * And again, your paragraph contains unencylopaedic information and is not written in an encyclopaedic tone - it sounds like something out of a school newsletter. --Sumple (Talk) 01:00, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

RfC: inclusion as a Chinese holiday
I am requesting comments on the inclusion of this article into the category of Chinese holidays. 12:15, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Edit History:

User:Wl219 originally made the inclusion

User:Certified.Gangsta reverted without explanation

User:Wl219 reverted, asserting that the "holiday celebrated by Chinese people = Chinese holiday"

User:Wenzi reverted, asserting that since Double Ten Day is not a public holiday in the People's Republic of China, it should not be included.

User:Wl219 reverted, replying that "no consensus that Chinese holidays category must be public holidays of PRC - see Category talk:Chinese holidays."

User:Certified.Gangsta reverted, accusing Wl219 of "pov pushing"

Comment There is nothing about the category Chinese holidays that requires a day to be a public holiday at all, much less a public holiday in the PRC. Double Ten Day is celebrated by Chinese on Taiwan and by Overseas Chinese. Even in the PRC, the revolution of 1911, which began on this day, is still commemorated. Thus there is no reason not to include in the category and there is no POV issue. Wl219 12:26, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment I think we should just move the category to Category:Chinese_festivals. We have PRC holidays, and ROC holidays for the national holidays. Anything else that is not listed in either should be classified in festivals. Wenzi 15:03, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment On Wikipedia, China =/= People's Republic of China. It is a well established principle and convention, as reflected in the naming conventions. Therefore, a "Chinese holiday" does not equal a "Holiday of the People's Republic of China". If it is celebrated as a holiday in any part of "China"/anywhere by Chinese people per se, then it is a Chinese holiday. --Sumple (Talk) 01:17, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment The reasons for inclusion is clear enough. The assertion of "Chinese holidays" includes all holidays that is celebrated by peoples with Chinese heritage. AQu01rius (User • Talk) 19:58, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Comment I support inclusion for the same reasons as Aqu01rius above.--Danaman5 23:50, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Comment I've removed the NYC reference to Jeremy's, doesn't make any sense to me. I am a Canadian currently living in Taiwan.Range 14:23, 13 October 2007 (UTC)

10-10 = October 10 It might have value to the less inspired reader to mention explicitly that ten-ten refers to tenth month, tenth day (October 10). I am reluctant to make this change myself, but offer it for consideration. Dan Engineer (talk) 20:46, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Hatnote reversion
@John Yunshire I wasn't banned or blocked. Why was my edit reverted? Wikiexplorationandhelping (talk) 16:25, 10 February 2024 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Wuchang Uprising

Untitled
Is there any significant fighting to warrant setting up a battlebox? I am curious to the number of initial rebels. Elle vécut heureuse à jamais  (Be eudaimonic!) 17:58, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Banner
Could include the flag... AnonMoos 02:14, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Better info
I edited the article to make it sound more encyclopedic and adhere to the rules of the English language, but I must call into the question much of the information given, especially on the background causes of the uprising. Why is the Han Chinese's antagonism towards the ruling Manchu dynasty and foreigners not mentioned? Or the corruption and decadence of Qing China? I also find it quite suspicious that the magazine Science and Football is cited; it does not seem to be a very good authority on Chinese history. I'll try to find some better sources, but until then, this article reeks of inaccuracy. --ZhangYuu (talk) 02:51, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Wuchang Uprising


text:
Talk:Mourning

stages of grief needs caveats
https://www.metafilter.com/196687/This-isnt-how-grief-goes 67.164.18.219 (talk) 03:38, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

This is the worst sentence that I have ever seen on Wikipedia
"Mourning is the expression of an experience that is the consequence of an event in life involving loss, causing grief, occurring as a result of someone's death, specifically someone who was loved although loss from death is not exclusively the cause of all experience of grief." Kk.urban (talk) 17:44, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

Some women still wear black until they die
I've noticed this in older generations in Mediterranean countries. Here is a research article, specifically about Greece that discusses with references. research.gold.ac.uk/id/eprint/11349/1/STA_Pentaris_2012.pdf    PeerOfTheRealm (talk) 01:54, 13 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mourning


text: Talk:MIT Sloan School of Management

title: Talk:MIT Sloan School of Management


text: File:Cherry Poppin' Daddies - Kids on the Street.jpg


text:
Kids on the Street

Kids on the Street is the third studio album by American band the Cherry Poppin' Daddies, released in 1996 on Space Age Bachelor Pad Records.

Overview
By 1996, the Cherry Poppin' Daddies had established themselves as a staple of the West Coast third wave ska scene, carving out a steady touring niche alongside bands such as The Mighty Mighty Bosstones and Reel Big Fish. However, the Daddies' next album strayed from the brass-heavy swing and funk which dominated their first two releases in favor of further exploration into punk and ska.

With lead singer Steve Perry now assuming a role as a rhythm guitarist, Kids on the Street predominantly features guitar-driven ska and punk, though also branches into such genres as southern rock ("Luther Lane"), western swing ("Silver-Tongued Devil") and jazz ("Here Comes the Snake"). Perry has stated that the abundance of straightforward rock and punk songs on the album in place of the eclecticism of their previous records was partially due to his playing guitar on the album, as he described his guitar skills as "limited".

Release and reception
Released in the midst of the American ska revival in 1996, Kids on the Street was the Daddies' most successful album at that time. Distributed through indie label Caroline Records, the album sold 25,000 copies in its first week, charting on The Rocket's Retail Sales Top Twenty for over seven months and eventually making its way onto Rolling Stone's Alternative Chart. Several of the album's songs appeared on numerous mid-1990s ska compilations, helping spread the Daddies' name further outside of their Pacific Northwest-centered fanbase.

Two contemporary reviews in Eugene's The Register-Guard both gave Kids on the Street a positive reception. One reviewer called the album a "great CD" that was "suitable for just hanging out and doing homework" to and for "long, boring car trips", while another reviewer, though claiming that Kids occasionally branched into "the monotony of 'alternative'", noted that it "definitely would be possible to derive pleasure from listening to this CD. The music is wonderful!"

Alternative versions

 * "Here Comes the Snake", the only Kids on the Street track which appeared on the Daddies' Zoot Suit Riot compilation, was re-recorded and released as a single in 1998, featuring a faster tempo, additional trumpet and a theremin replacing the whistle. This version was also used in the soundtrack of the film Three to Tango.
 * "Irish Whiskey" was re-recorded for the Daddies' 2000 album Soul Caddy, omitting the horns and including an extended bridge.

Credits

 * Cherry Poppin' Daddies
 * Steve Perry – vocals, guitar
 * Dan Schmid – bass
 * Chris Azorr – keyboards
 * Dana Heitman – trumpet, trombone
 * Jason Moss – lead guitar
 * Sean Flannery – tenor saxophone
 * Rex Trimm – alto saxophone
 * Adam Glogauer – drums

 * Additional musicians
 * Adrian Baxter – tenor saxophone on tracks 2, 4 - 5, 10 - 11, 13 - 15
 * John Fohl – guitar, lap steel guitar on tracks 11, 14
 * Sean Oldham – drums on tracks 4 - 5, 7, 11 - 14
 * Jason Palmer – drums on tracks 2, 10
 * James Phillips – alto saxophone on track 8

 * Stephen Colbert - song writing
 * Production
 * All songs engineered and mixed by Bill Barnett at Gung Ho Studios in Eugene, Oregon
 * Additional engineering by Dana Heitman

title: Kids on the Street


text: File:Cherry Poppin' Daddies - Soul Caddy.jpg


text:
Talk:Honeypot (computing)

Lance Spitzner has some great info on Honeypots at: http://www.trackinghackers.com

Need for Caution
"Honeypots can carry risks to a network, and must be handled with care. If they are not properly walled off, an attacker can use them to actually break into a system."

I suppose, but I'd like to see this fleshed out. Just what is it that makes a honeypot (which is or should be designed to be secure) more vulnerable than production systems? Is the main danger the danger from the very sophisticated intruders, who would choose to abuse a honeypot in order to show their prowess? I ask because some types of abuse that honeypots detect or thwart are not committed by sophisticated users, they are committed by "script kiddies" or the next level above them. There is such a thing as "production" abuse, with the best example being that committed millions of times daily by spammers. These abusers typically have neither the time nor the desire to concentrate on any one system: they just want enough abusable systems be able to send their spam. If a system is unusual or not immediately obvious as an exploitable target the abuser moves on. His goal is not to abuse any particular system or systems, his goal is to use abuse to cheaply and somewhat anonymously send his spam.

I think there's also a bit of confusion. Lance Spitzer describes, I think, general and very broad honeypots. For those honeypots and for the class of abusers who would tend to try to defeat them (the sophisticated abusers) the warning surely is valid. For single-purpose honeypots (e.g., open relay honeypots) the vulnerability should be about the same as the vulnerability of production systems. The first open relay honeypot I advocated was sendmail (a production software component), run so that it accepted everything and delivered nothing (easy to do on any system with no legitimate email function.) At that time (2001) sendmail -bd was the command needed to run sendmail in that mode. That's where my alias (Minasbeede = "Minus bd") arose. Such a honeypot would be no more nor no less vulnerable than a production system running sendmail as a real server.

Nothing I write is meant to advocate incaution. Comments that assume it is and then criticize it are welcome: part of the essence of caution is that nothing be taken for granted, nothing be overlooked, nothing left unexamined.

Minasbeede 16:35, 14 December 2005 (UTC)

It looks like the sentence quoted is no longer in the article so this section is an orphan. Minasbeede (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 00:28, 27 August 2019 (UTC)

Disambig
Is it time to make this a disambiguation page, and move the text to honeypot (computers)? That's an awful long list at the top of alternative, non-trivial synonyms. - DavidWBrooks 19:49, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I say go for it! Many of the linked pages are small now but they look ripe for expansion. - SCEhard T 19:56, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * I'l wait a day to see if anybody complains. - DavidWBrooks 20:06, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Further thought: The new page should probably be honeypot (electronic) in a similar way to spam (electronic) because the article covers devices that aren't strictly computers - SCEhard T 20:44, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, somebody just did the exact opposite of what I was intending, merging a couple of honeypot sub-terms into this one. - DavidWBrooks 22:34, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Oh, sorry, I didn't see this discussion was going on! I hate leaving so many stubs lying around when they're all realated (although after the merge I think Honey trap should be merged into Sting operation). So it's really just the merge of the computer and espionage stuff which are fairly well related, although I did toss quite a bit about the implementation details. Ewlyahoocom 22:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

I support the proposal to create a separate Disambig page. RayGates 21:01, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Merge
I do not think these terms are similar enough (or small enough) to justify a merge. Plus, a lot of content was lost. I am reverting the merge for now - please discuss here before making such drastic changes. - SCEhard T 22:47, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Alright, good luck with it. I look forward to seeing what you come up with (as long as its not 5 stubs and no articles ;-). Ewlyahoocom 23:02, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

 * 5 stubs each clearly different and unrelated terms are much more menaingful than a single large poorly structured article. If you think a merge is a good idea, consider if there is still a connection if the page and stubs are translated into another language. Alex Law 23:46, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

 * You evidently haven't looked at the articles in question. There might be 2, possibly even 3, articles (or stubs) in here but currently the information is spread out horizontally i.e. each of the current articles repeats the same ideas with a lot of duplication, plus some information which might not be encyclopedic. Ewlyahoocom 06:47, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Speaking as somebody whose three years on wikipedia has seen many a sub-stub grow to such proportion that the problem is keeping its size down, I don't think creating a series of stubs, as the disambiguation would do, is a problem. They will either grow, or not, as wikipedia sees fit. If they don't, they aren't really a problem. But having to wander through a bunch of unrelated topics in a single article to find the tidbit you're searching for - that is a problem. - DavidWBrooks 19:02, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Clarifications
I understand all the words but still don't know what this means. If the attacker wants to break in (and the wanting to break in is important) then the attacker will look for anything vulnerable. The warning appears to assume the honeypot is in an environment that requires high security and that the attacker wishes to compromise the high security. Of course you want to be cautious in a high-security case. Many honeypots (e.g., open proxy honeypots) are intended to detect bulk abusers. The abuser doesn't care about any particular site per se, he just wants to exploit vulnerabilites he can find. For such abusers the probability of accomplishing any sort of attack through the honeypot is very small. He checks for apparent vulnerability. If he finds it, he abuses. If not, he goes on to the next IP in the list. It's not careful, meticulous, analytical hacking, it's bulk abuse, done as quickly and simply as possible. As such honeypots are often no more than applications that run under standard environments (e.g., Jackpot, the Bubblegum Proxypot) the greater risk, if there is a risk, resides almost totally in the risks that characterize that environment and not in the honeypot application. I'd think it foolhardy at the very least to deploy any honeypot that is intended to combat hard-core abusers without a very thorough understanding of the security risks and implications. In other words, the people most likely to use honeypots in the high-security environments hardly need this warning: their awareness surpasses that implied by the caution statement. I'd hope. Minasbeede -User:Minasbeede

Merges suggested (Feb 2007)
I have suggested merging a number of related stub articles into this article. I think it is better for an encyclopedia article to contain descriptions of a number of closely-related topics. As things stand right now, with all the topics stuck on their own pages, it is more like a dictionary. Sure, maybe the short definitions found in the header sections should be copied into Wiktionary, but instead of deletion from Wikipedia, they should be gathered together into one place. It seems to me like this article here is the best candidate. Think about it - if you want to learn about the topic, wouldn't you like to have the most important stuff all on one page? Sure, Wikipedia makes it easy to click on wiki links, but who wants to have to click on every link, sorting the related from the tangential? Cbdorsett 05:49, 11 February 2007 (UTC) Here is a list of the topics, separated so that any distinct issues can be commented on in their own place. I did not include Honeymonkey because I think it is too far removed, but it of course should remain as a "see also" link. Cbdorsett 05:54, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Honeytoken
 * Honeynet
 * Victim host
 * Client honeypot / honeyclient

 * Merge All I agree with Cbdorsett. I noted these merge proposals while clearing a Backlog.  I would do the merges myself right now, but it would probably be more fruitful if the interested party who tagged them proceeded. Alan.ca 12:24, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Merge all There's no real defining characteristic that distinguishes any of those from a honeypot (victim host is even defined to be another term for honeypot). Currently, it seems that we have multiple forks of the same article, with varying degrees of information. Mind  matrix  15:36, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Since nothing's been done since February, and I - as a new reader to this article - support the merge, I have merged honeynet. EuroSong talk 23:32, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

Etymology issues
I removed the Etymology section since it was uncited, and I believe it to be suspicious. The reason is that I thought that the term came from the nickname for bedpan as being a "honeypot" and that this malware host is like a bedpan for software. I of course cannot include this in the article because it is completely researched, but given other possibilities for the origin and in the spirit of keeping Wikipedia accurate rather than long, I'm removing it. If it is added again I hope that it cites sources I will not be a pain and I'll leave it where it is.

Tyler (talk) 17:09, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

The First Honeypot
Since the software called Honey Pot written at the UPL University of Wisconsin predated the world wide web and web browser most stories about the History of Honey Pots are very likely wrong. Scottprovost (talk) 21:10, 10 April 2015 (UTC) The early FTP site operators on the Internet were often surprised to find, for instance, that there were people wanted their own copy of every IBM Redbook. Many of these organizations did not even own IBM equipment so rtfm servers became known for being "Honey Pots" (places the poo bears can not resist) This had nothing to do with hacking and all to do with what was called newbie curiosity. Many modified their FTP Servers to serve one packet per second or less. Since many newbies did not know how to kill their FTP and Gopher sessions, their hand was stuck in the cookie jar or their head in the honey pot. This became worse as more commercial service brought civilians and non academics to the net and tripwires and tar-pits were added. Things have changes since then and terms mean something different now but as for history, poo bears were generally AOL users new to the Internet that had no idea they were doing something unacceptable when they tried to download massive binary files of no use to them over a 300 baud modem. Scottprovost (talk) 21:41, 10 April 2015 (UTC)

Sugarcane
"A honeypot that masquerades as an open proxy is known as a sugarcane." I cannot find any reference about this sentence on the Internet; Google returns only circular references to Wikipedia. Does anybody have more information? 193.206.71.135 (talk) 07:32, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

I've now removed this statement, since no one replied. 193.206.71.135 (talk) 08:57, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

Fermented honeypot
There has been recent coinage of a new term of a "fermented honeypot" with the origional usage posted [] by Toby Kohlenberg. To be honest his article is not very explanitory of the usage and confusing to many non computer-security professionals. From what I can tell it is a modification of a honeypot system to include an additional incentive to attackers and some form of reverse attack tailored to the discovered exploit. I have contacted the author for additional information for inclusion as a sub-type. (note numerous attempts at creating a seperate page has resulted in the title getting "salted" Halcyonforever (talk) 19:31, 15 January 2009 (UTC)

Removal of sections promoting various honeypot solutions - March 2009
I've removed a few poorly-written sections that appeared to exist mainly to promote various open source projects. While not disputing that there may be some pertinent information in the removed text, I feel that the tone, grammar and composition of some of the sections was of such low standard that it would be better to remove them for now. Hopefully an editor more experienced with the subject matter can review and reincorporate some/all of the removed text into the article as appropriate. juux ☠ 08:02, 25 March 2009 (UTC)

Etymology?
I would guess that this name comes from the same idea as "one can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar". Are there any reliable sources for this or for any other etymology? Nyttend (talk) 02:15, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Edit Summary
Fat fingered it, so for this the Edit Summary doesn't match the edit action. 99.181.142.87 (talk) 07:38, 17 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is duplication. It's a rephrasing of the second sentence of the paragraph.  — Arthur Rubin  (talk) 09:02, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

Medium Interaction?
Why is there no Medium Interaction category? Kippo/cowrie describe themselves as such. Additionally i think the categorization of an independent service in that case ssh is a viable category. : There is even a scientific Article titled Medium interaction Honeypots. : http://julien.desfossez.free.fr/doc/midinthp.pdf :

NichtAllwissender (talk) 02:40, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Honeypot (computing)


text:
User:Ken2~enwiki

I was born in Tokyo, Japan, in 1979. I graduated from Tokyo University of Science. Now, I go to the University of Tokyo. And, I am an AEC student.

title: User:Ken2~enwiki


text:
Talk:Marie Antoinette

Portrait
Add the name of painter of her portrait, in the infobox. 174.94.54.119 (talk) 20:52, 15 February 2024 (UTC)

Not impartial
The whole thing reads like a eulogy. Numerous times emotional sentiment has been shoehorned in. It's not your job to exonerate her or plead her innocence or take a one sided stance.

“the queen was very majestic and charismatic in spite of the fact that she gained a lot of weight over the years due to her many pregnancies.”

So being “majestic” and “charismatic” should not be expected if you weigh a little bit more??? 100.16.159.231 (talk) 22:44, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 July 2024
revoution = revolution 2603:8000:D300:3650:28D8:D7E0:EAD:2E75 (talk) 20:54, 11 July 2024 (UTC)
 * ✅ – Thanks! Favonian (talk) 21:02, 11 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Marie Antoinette


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/False Impression

False Impression
False Impression was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was a consensus to delete the article.

Looks like a local band in Florida that existed for two years, played a few shows, and never released an album. No documentation that I can find apart from their own website. Interestingly, this is one of the older pages in Wikipedia, dating from 2002; I guess it's escaped notice. --Delirium 06:07, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC) This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
 * Delete: Unsigned band vanity. I wish them well, but there are tens of thousands of folks in a similar position. Geogre 14:59, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. -Viriditas 23:19, 11 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete Dsmdgold 22:14, Oct 16, 2004 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major

Move
Why? It seems to me that it violates the Wikipedia standard of common names; "Wasp Major" is a lot better known than "R-4360". —Morven 06:07, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)

Hardly competitive
The article claims that the P/W of the 4360 was matched by few engines. I beg to differ. All of the Hypers outperformed it, as did practically every other US engine. More to the point the Sabre easily outperformed it, producing 3,500hp from under 2,500 lbs, and even the poor German engines running on 87 didn't do too badly, the Jumo 222 for instance.

The 4360 was big. That's all it was.

Maury 6 July 2005 00:42 (UTC)

 * giving a power to weight ratio of 1.11 hp/lb (1.83 kW/kg), which was matched or exceeded by very few contemporary engines. - depends on whether the weight figures include the turbochargers and (heavy) stainless steel ducting for them - one suspects not, as the usual US practice at the time was to classify the turbochargers as airframe weight, due them being mounted remotely from the engine, e.g., Thunderbolt, Lightning. Even so, as you correctly state, the quoted P/W figures aren't anything to write home about. 71 litres is a BIG engine, nearly twice the displacement of the Napier Sabre. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.112.78.10 (talk) 18:29, 22 February 2011 (UTC)

Napier Sabre... better?? I hardly think so. The Sabre with its cartridge starter was a real fire bug. The Coffman cannister could remain hot enough to start a fire even after 5mins of idling. Standard ground procedure was to have fire crews standing by. All radial engines over 2800HP were problematic. The Wrights were notorious for stripping the turbo gears. The PW was an over-heater on the ground.27.33.243.103 (talk) 00:17, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

 * Sabre engine fires were due to the pilot over-priming the cylinders, often after a failed start in cold weather. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.31.130.71 (talk) 11:21, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Mars
I believe that the Martin mars was powered by 3350s, not 4360s LorenzoB 22:41, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Good catch. I checked my sources to see if perhaps some prototypes or conversions used the Wasp Major, but have found anything as yet. - BillCJ 23:23, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

Start system
I've added the "citation needed" expression to the text waiting for someone to prove me that Pratt & Whitney R-4360 or even the Fairchild C-82 Packet's Pratt & Whitney R-2800 (as used in "The Flight of the Phoenix" movie) used Coffman Starter. So far I believe such big engines used the more typical motor and inertia flywheel system. - RobertoRMola (talk) 13:35, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Cartridge starters have probably never been used on passenger liners, certainly not post WW2. The Coffman was dirty and sometimes made fires, and the AVPIN was positively dangerous even in military craft. The Bristol Belvedere used AVPINs, and they were quickly withdrawn from service because of the fire rate.27.33.243.103 (talk) 00:23, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

 * AVPIN was introduced for fighter aircraft such as the BAC Lightning to provide instant start-up for scrambles. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.31.130.71 (talk) 11:26, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

Semi-Helical Arrangement & Multi-Row Radial
I remember hearing that multi-row radials were difficult to work prior to the early 1940's because of airflow issues. Clearly the semi-helical arrangement fixed it, but there were twin-row radials before that which featured offset cylinders (if not all of 'em) and there were generally cooling issues when more than three rows were used until the 1940's, so did they simply refine the semi-helical arrangement, or were there other factors that enabled the engine to work? AVKent882 (talk) 17:41, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

 * They used baffles to direct the airflow around the cylinders. I don't know if that was unique to the R-4360, but it did help solve most of the cooling issues. I'll try to add a section of ths later, as I can, from a source on PW engines. - BilCat (talk) 20:24, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * There were also trials with aux fans (notably in the BMW 801), tho AFAIK, never on a U.S. engine, & not with real success.  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  23:47, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

 * Actually, a fan was used on each R-4360 on the B-36, as they were oussher pusher engines. I'm not sure how "successful" the installation was, though. - BilCat (talk)
 * Thx. I have a vague recollection of a fan in a fancy "jet thrust" cowling design. This one?  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  03:25, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

 * The fans were just for cooling in the B-36, just to be clear. - BilCat (talk) 03:38, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

A 28 cylinder, 72l P&W Aero Engine is on display at the Isle of Man Motor Museum, Jurby, IOM. You might want to add it to the list. AnnaComnemna (talk) 19:16, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

Counterrotation?
Revisiting a move notion, I'm proposing the page be moved to either P&W R4360 or P&W Wasp Major, since the name, as is, combines both the military designation & civil name, neither of which were used together (AFAIK). TREKphiler  any time you're ready, Uhura  00:03, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

 * See here. - BilCat (talk) 01:58, 10 June 2017 (UTC)
 * I've never seen them together before.... I'll consider this move withdrawn as mistaken.  TREKphiler   any time you're ready, Uhura  02:52, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

 * No worries. - BilCat (talk) 08:18, 10 June 2017 (UTC)

External links modified (January 2018)
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--- Hi, I believe there is one of these engines at the RAAF Association Museum at Bullcreek, Western Australia. I'll try to verify that, and if I can then I'll update the section. Sorry for the anon. edit but I seem to have stuffed up my password and will attempt a reset - BernardWansbrough 19 Feb 21

Doesn't sound very NPOV
Most of this article sounds like it was written by a Constellation fanboy trying to prove that the competition really sucked, in all ways. I don't claim that the R-4360 was a huge success, but I don't think it was quite as bad as this tries to portray it. I.e. 'only profitable with government subsidy, unreliable, maintenance intensive, etc, etc'. Even if most of this is true, we could leaven it wit a little more positive stuff of interest. It was a good attempt at solving a tough problem, a lot of very brilliant engineering went into making it work at all. Most makers never came up with anything comparable. So it wasn't as successful as some engines...it was pushing the envelope much harder. It went out of service as soon as the turbine sowed up.....so did most piston engines, except the ones that could be operated very cheaply. The fact that econo-airlines operated the Connie and DC-6 into the jet age only proves they were pretty cheap to operate and buy. AFAIK ALL airlines relied on government subsidies to make a profit and to keep fares low. This wasn't some special deal worked out with the government to keep PW engines flying. While I'm at it, the R-2180 isn't a "derivative" of the R-4360. Both are engines drawn up to use the same new cylinder design as first used in the R-2800. I'm sure they had plans for a 14 cylinder smaller version well before they embarked on the radical 28 cylinder. The probably took out the plans for the 14 cyl version and dusted them off, doubling them to make a huge 28 cyl engine, because of the impossibility of cooling 4 rows of 9 cylinders. With all the brilliant engineers PW had, they didn't need to create a huge 28 cylinder engine and then cut it in half to come up with a 14 cylinder radial version of the engine family. That would have been in the works from the beginning. Radial engines are highly modular and from the outset the plan to build a whole family of engines using the same cylinder barrels. They aren't like inlines where the barrels have to be cast together into a block, etc. You can make any size radial out of the exact same cylinders. They started with an 18, but they certainly had a 14 in mind, and maybe even had been working on a 4-row, either 28 or 36 cylinder. In the end they decided 36 was too many. They could have done 7 and 9s, but they probably felt that unless a good reason showed up, it was better to let smaller 14s and 9s do those jobs.

70.20.33.171 (talk) 23:14, 8 August 2019 (UTC)

Specs R4360-51
In my opinion it is not a good idea to take this example, because it is a protoype engine and never entered production status. A lot of guys consider that an ordinary R-4360 has 4300 hp.....Further on -51 was not equipped with an supercharger or pressure carburettor. The design principle of the VDT was to recover as much exhaust energy as possible. Additionally the -51 uses an remote reduction gear box with an extension shaft and not less than 3 turbochargers to fit into the original pusher design of the mighty B-36. Very hard to explain for somebody who is reading the specs of this super special prototype engine........as i said not an good example METOPower (talk) 12:26, 1 June 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pratt & Whitney R-4360 Wasp Major


text:
Soul Caddy

Soul Caddy is the fourth studio album by American band the Cherry Poppin' Daddies, released on October 3, 2000 by Mojo Records.

Written and recorded after the multi-platinum success of their 1997 compilation Zoot Suit Riot, Soul Caddy moved away from the swing revival movement which had brought them temporary fame, drawing upon retro pop, rock, and soul influences and addressing themes of cultural alienation in its lyrics. Released to little promotion or mainstream recognition, Soul Caddy was a commercial failure, bringing the Daddies' full-time touring career to an end and initiating a hiatus from recording until the release of Susquehanna in 2008.

Album overview
Following the success of their 1997 swing music compilation Zoot Suit Riot, the Cherry Poppin' Daddies decided to return to the multi-genre format of their earlier albums for Soul Caddy, weaving an eclectic variety of musical styles around the band's characteristic mix of rock, swing, and ska.

Singer-songwriter Steve Perry explained in interviews that the album's primary stylistic elements were derived from the rock and pop music of the 1960s and 1970s, namely Motown soul and British Mod, of which Perry has long been influenced by.

Much of Soul Caddy is punctuated by tracks of soul, ska and rhythm and blues, also incorporating such diverse musical styles as funk ("My Mistake"), jazz ("The Saddest Thing I Know"), punk rock ("Irish Whiskey") and psychedelic folk ("Grand Mal").

The leading track and first single off Soul Caddy was the glam rock pastiche "Diamond Light Boogie". Following the huge success of the band's 1997 swing single "Zoot Suit Riot", Perry sought to write a song which would introduce a truer perspective of the Daddies' sound to a wider audience and help bridge the gap between their swing-oriented fanbase and non-swing music. "Diamond Light Boogie" worked as a musical and lyrical homage to the glam era of the early 1970s, written to fuse the guitar riff-driven melodies of bands such as T. Rex with the rhythmic backbeat and upbeat horn section common of jump blues and swing.

Perry has described Soul Caddy as a loose concept album reflecting his own temporary experience with fame, drawing upon feelings of social alienation, disillusionment and dissatisfaction with the cultural zeitgeist. Perry described Soul Caddy as a "bittersweet" record about "being alienated and hoping to connect", noting the central themes of the albums as being about loneliness and the search for meaning in a "technically sophisticated yet soulless society". In an interview with Gallery, Perry explained:

...that's the whole point of the record: it's not about what's on the outside, it's what's on the interior. And the fact is, a lot of the songs, to put it in a nutshell, are about trying to reach out and be with other people in the world and not having a very easy time of it. My feeling is that most people in the United States are exterior, superficial sort of people, and that makes me really lonely. Things in the U.S. are about celebrity and money and success. We talk about certain huge bands that have absolutely no value, but when they sell a zillion records, everybody starts looking at them and turning them over and thinking, there must be some value here. There's not. It's bullshit.

Production history
After finishing their initial touring behind the release of Zoot Suit Riot in late 1997, the Daddies started production on their next studio album in as early as February 1998. During these recording sessions, the band had begun recording tracks for upwards of sixteen songs, much of which was heavily ska and Mod-influenced. In the following months, however, "Zoot Suit Riot" unexpectedly emerged as a hit single on modern rock radio, rocketing the album to the top of Billboard's Top Heatseekers chart and propelling the Daddies to the forefront of the burgeoning swing revival movement. Mojo Records insisted that the band leave the studio and immediately begin touring again, a tour which ultimately lasted for over a year as Zoot Suit Riot grew to surpass sales of over two million units.

When the Daddies finally returned to the studio in the fall of 1999, Perry felt the previous recordings had become "stale", and the band began work on writing new songs and re-writing the older ones. Openly discontent with the media's persistent typecasting of the Daddies as a generic "retro swing band" at the expense of their dominant ska and punk influences, Perry started writing more diverse musical textures into the album rather than merely return to an overtly swing-oriented sound. In interviews given during this time, he voiced his desire to create an album which could bridge the gaps between their swing fanbase and their non-swing music. "We don't want to disappoint people", he told ABC News, "Hopefully, now we can give [the fans] a sense of what they want but still be able to be ourselves. The ultimate thing would be to be popular and have a lot of people know what you're really like and like you for it."

To help lend a vintage authenticity to the album's 1970s-influenced sound, Perry brought in several notable guest musicians and producers from the era. Legendary glam rock producer and David Bowie collaborator Tony Visconti served as a supervising producer on "Diamond Light Boogie", while former Turtles and Mothers of Invention vocalist Mark Volman featured as a backing vocalist on the song. Further backing vocals throughout the album were provided by Motown artist Ada Dyer and Luther Vandross and Quincy Jones singer Paulette McWilliams, while free jazz saxophonist Dewey Redman featured on "The Saddest Thing I Know" and world music percussionist Carol Steele, who recorded with Peter Gabriel and Tears for Fears among others, played on the song "Stay (Don't Just Stay)". Lee Jeffries, steel guitarist for western swing band Big Sandy & His Fly-Rite Boys, supposedly performed on a song which didn't make it onto the album.

Release and reception
Despite allowing the Daddies complete creative control over the production of Soul Caddy, Mojo Records had a largely unenthusiastic reaction to the finished album. Claiming that the new material was "not like the Cherry Poppin' Daddies people know and love", the label did little to promote the album, at one point releasing the single for "Diamond Light Boogie" without the band's name on it, allegedly due to a hesitancy over releasing a rock single from a band largely known for swing music. With virtually no major marketing or promotion behind it, Soul Caddy was quietly released on October 3, 2000.

Soul Caddy met with mixed to negative critical reviews upon release, the majority of criticism ironically centered on the album's lack of swing music. Some reviewers, however, seemed oblivious to the Daddies' eclectic ska punk history: Steve Greenlee of The Boston Globe began his review with "neo-swing fans, beware", openly accusing the Daddies of abandoning their swing "roots" in favor of a trendier sound, while the Los Angeles Daily News echoed similar complaints, placing the album on their list of the 10 worst albums of 2000, the reviewer wondering what made a swing band "think it could get away with an album of recycled psychedelic pop". Critics were evenly divided over Soul Caddy's mix of genres; UGO's Hip Online wrote "[c]overing five or six genres on one album is just insane", noting "Soul Caddy has no cohesion and that ruins the enjoyment". Entertainment Weekly was annoyed by the way the band tackled each genre with the same "insufferable enthusiasm", remarking "Perry is a far better writer than he is a singer" and giving the album a C− rating. MTV.com offered perhaps the most overwhelmingly negative review, saying that Soul Caddy's "cheesy, super-compressed studio shine" had drained the album of its energy, leaving the "confusing" mix of genres feeling "washed-out [and] a bit depressing and Weird Al-like", summarizing the Daddies as "a band that's trying to show off their record collection, rather than their creativity".

On the positive end of the critical spectrum, some reviewers responded well to Soul Caddy's eclectic bent. Allmusic, despite rating it with a modest score of 3 out of 5 stars, wrote "Soul Caddy is flat-out fun and there's no way around that", praising the album's "witty and smart lyricism" and assortment of genres as "certainly refreshing coming from a band who was assumed to be generic retro swing" and noting "for the listeners who take time to believe in it, Soul Caddy will be impressively surprising". The Denver Westword lauded the band for breaking away from the retro mentality of the swing revival, saying of the Daddies "they've got more spunk, more sense of adventure and more life than nearly every other swing act on the scene", praising the album's streaks of rock and punk for giving neo-swing "a much-needed facelift".

Impact on the band
Bogged down by poor reviews, neither Soul Caddy nor "Diamond Light Boogie" achieved any commercial or chart success upon release, casting an unshakeable pall over the Daddies' subsequent US tour in promotion of the album. The Soul Caddy tour saw the band intentionally downplaying their swing side in favor of their wider body of sounds, a choice which didn't fare well with the Daddies' target audiences. Speaking retrospectively in a 2002 interview, Perry elaborated "we went out on tour and most people saw us as a swing band because of the success of Zoot Suit Riot...we felt this tension to be something we weren't". Already dissatisfied with the tour's outcome, consistently low ticket sales ultimately brought the Daddies' tour to an early and unfortunate close.

In December 2000, the Daddies mutually agreed upon taking an indefinite hiatus from performing, citing both Soul Caddy's commercial underperformance and the band's personal exhaustion from nearly non-stop touring since the release of Zoot Suit Riot as reason. The Daddies would eventually reform in February 2002 to sporadically play one-off local shows and festival appearances for the next several years before returning to touring and recording with their self-produced and independently released album Susquehanna in early 2008.

Previous availability

 * A previous studio version of "Irish Whiskey" appears on the Daddies' 1996 album Kids on the Street.
 * An alternate recording of "So Long Toots" first appeared on the soundtrack album for the 1999 film Blast from the Past.

Credits
Band
 * Steve Perry – lead vocals, guitar (1 – 2, 4 – 6, 9 – 11), keyboard effects, stylophone
 * Dana Heitman – trumpet (1 – 4, 6, 8 – 10, 12 – 13)
 * Ian Early – alto saxophone, bass clarinet (1 – 6, 8 – 10, 12 – 13)
 * Sean Flannery – tenor saxophone, bass clarinet (1 – 6, 8 – 10, 12 – 13)
 * Dustin Lanker – keyboards (1 – 3, 8 – 9)
 * Jason Moss – guitar
 * Dan Schmid – bass guitar
 * Tim Donahue – drums

Guests
 * Bryce Peltier – trombone (3, 10)
 * John MacDonald — trombone (3, 8, 10)
 * Dewey Redman – tenor saxophone on track 13
 * Johnny Goetchius – keyboards, backing vocals (1, 4 – 6, 10, 12 – 13)
 * Carol Steele – percussion on track 4
 * Ada Dyer – backing vocals (4, 6, 9)
 * Paulette McWilliams – backing vocals (4, 6, 9)
 * Mark Volman – backing vocals on track 1

Production
 * Jay Rifkin – executive producer
 * Bob Ludwig – mastering
 * Billy Barnett – engineer
 * Recorded at Gung Ho Studios in Eugene, Oregon
 * Mixed by Jack Joseph Puig at Ocean Way Recording, except tracks 4, 6, 9 and 13 at Gung Ho Studios
 * Richard Ash - Engineer at Ocean Way Recording
 * Additional recording at Sears Sound in New York City

title: Soul Caddy


text:
Talk:John Ordway

Dedication Page link
This is a "Dedication Page link" from the John Ordway page. This is just a personal message from "me" (the founder of the John Ordway page). - You can use the John Ordway page as a reference for the DAR American History Essay Contest. In fact, please do, since I (the founder of the John Ordway page) would be very pleased and delighted that my basic foundation for this informational page was useful and used by people who enjoyed it! Any other report that you might be working on (if possible) can use the page for information. IF YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO USE SPECIFIC INTERNET RESOURCES (OR ANY INTERNET RESOURCES AT ALL) DO NOT USE THIS PAGE AT ALL!!! I just used the DAR as an example since it is a major report across the U.S. I would like to share my page with some specific people. I would like to thank Mrs. Armitage, friends Megan Nacionales, Valerie Shih, Ashlee Saenz, & many others!Thanks!! :P :D  :)  ;P  ;D   Thanks, again!!! - — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.120.205.28 (talk) 06:19, 11 October 2004 (UTC)

Some text (2006)
One of ten children, Sergeant John Ordway was a young soldier from Hebron, New Hampshire. A major contributor to the expedition’s success, Ordway was one of the few well-educated men recruited for the expedition. His many responsibilities included issuing provisions, appointing guard duties, keeping all registers and records, and commanding the group during absences of Lewis and Clark. He was also instructed to keep a journal, and his descriptions about the Native American life provide a valuable historical account.

Many violations of orderly conduct (refusing to obey orders, stealing, and rebelliousness) occurred while Sergeant Ordway was in command. One problem occurred in February 1804, while Captain Lewis was in St. Louis attending ceremonies for the transference of the Louisiana Territory from France to the United States. With Ordway in charge of the men back at Camp Wood, several men had visited a local tavern and gotten drunk, in defiance of Ordway’s orders. When Lewis returned, he confined the offenders to the camp area for 10 days, and told them that “the Commanding officer feels himself mortifyed and disappointed at the disorderly conduct. . . A moment's reflection must convince every man of our party” that the captains would sometimes be absent and that “on such occasions the directives of duly appointed sergeants had the same authority as the captains.”

However, after four months at Wood River, the men continued to be restless. On March 29, there were fights among the men. Both Privates John Shields and John Colter disobeyed orders and threatened Sergeant Ordway’s life. Both were put on trial for mutiny where they “asked the forgivness &c & promised to doe better in the future.” Two days later both men were welcomed into the permanent party.

As the Corps was about to begin the journey, Ordway wrote to his parents about the purpose and determination of the expedition: “We are to ascend the Missouri River with a boat as far as it is navigable and then go by land, to the western ocean, if nothing prevents, &c. This party consists of 25 picked Men of the armey & country and I am So happy as to be one of them pick’d Men....We are to start in ten days up the Missouri River....We expect to be gone 18 months or two years....If we make Great Discoveries as we expect, the united States, has promised to make us Great Rewards more than we are promised, &c.”

On the return trip from the Pacific Ocean, Ordway was given the task of leading a party of 10 men to the head of the Jefferson River, where the Corps had left its canoes before crossing the mountains. After repairing the canoes, Ordway would lead the men down the Jefferson to the Great Falls of the Missouri, portage around the falls, and then proceed to the mouth of the river to reunite with the groups led by Lewis and Clark. This was done successfully and without incident.

After the expedition, Lewis and Clark had the task of preparing a work of their journey. They agreed to buy Ordway’s journals and incorporate his writings in their book, and paid him $300 for the journals. Ordway returned to New Hampshire, married, and later moved to Missouri to farm the 320 acres of land that he was awarded for his service in the Corps. He also received double pay, on Lewis’ recommendation, as did most of the men in the Corps. Ordway lived the remainder of his life as a successful landowner. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Denmarkdv (talk • contribs) 18:45, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Exact date of birth?
Does anyone know of the exact DOB of John Ordway? I have to do it for a project65.33.96.202 00:06, 8 March 2007 (UTC) The SOAD Fan

Information (2009)
Sgt. John Ordway is one of 10 children born to Hannah & John Ordway, who moved from Amesbury MA to near the town boundary line between Bow, NH and Dunbarton, NH, in 1774. Sgt. Ordway was not born in Hebron N.H. (50 miles away from Bow, NH), however a brother (Stephen) did move there and lived most of his life in Hebron. Sgt. John Ordway visited him there in 1806 or 1807, before moving to Missouri. Those seeking information for his date-of-birth could check municipal, church, or historical-society records at either the Town of Bow, NH, or Town of Dunbarton, NH. Sgt. John Ordway died in Missouri in 1817. Jreference (talk) 21:18, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

title: Talk:John Ordway


text: Category:Cherry Poppin' Daddies albums

title: Category:Cherry Poppin' Daddies albums


text:
Angelita Lind

Angelita Lind Soliveras a.k.a. "The Angel of Puerto Rico" (born January 13, 1959) is a Puerto Rican track and field athlete.

Early years
Lind was born in the barrio Marin Bajo of Patillas, Puerto Rico into a poor family. She received her primary and secondary education in her hometown. Lind first participated in track and field events in the 7th grade and later continued participating for her high school. However, it wasn't until she became a student at the Interamerican University of Puerto Rico that she was asked by the Puerto Rican Olympic Committee to represent Puerto Rico in international sports events.

International competitions
Lind has represented the island and participated in three Central American and Caribbean Games (CAC) and won two gold medals, three silver medals and one bronze medal. She also participated in three Pan American Games and in the 1984 Olympics celebrated in Los Angeles, California.

In the CAC of 1982, celebrated in Havana, Cuba, Lind was the standard carrier of the Puerto Rican flag. In those games, she won a gold medal in the 1,500 meter dash with a record time of 4:25.88 and a silver in the 800 meters dash in a controversial race in 2:04.24. In that race, she crossed the finish line with two Cuban runners next to her. Right at the finish line the two Cuban girls ran into each other and they both knocked Angelita down. Lind's feet were crossing the finish line, but because the Cuban fell into Angelita from behind, it was the Cuban who actually crossed the finish line first; after a prolonged discussion which reached the central offices of the International Athletic Federation, it was decided that Lind arrived second. They based their decision on a rule of track and field which states that the first torso across the finish line wins.

By this time there had been a lot of trouble between the Government of Puerto Rico, headed by pro-US statehood governor Carlos Romero Barceló, (who withheld economic support from the athletic delegation headed to Cuba), and the Puerto Rican Olympic Committee, presided by German Rieckehoff, which had to appeal directly to the people for donations. Lind's "fall" united the people of Puerto Rico and for the first time, they forgot about the fight between the Olympic Committee and the government and concentrated on the sport - these events also served to inspire future runners.

World Masters Athletics
Angelita Lind officially retired in 1992, however on July, 2003 at age 44, she returned to participate in the 1,500 dash in the World Masters Athletics championships, which were celebrated in San Juan, Puerto Rico. She continues to hold the national record for the 800 meters dash and the 1,500 meters dash.

Later years
She earned her master's degree from the Interamerican University of Puerto Rico and is currently a professor of physical education. Lind also serves as assistant athletic director in the department of physical education at the Interamerican University of Puerto Rico campus in San German, Puerto Rico. In 2004, she was inducted into the "Puerto Rican Sports Hall of Fame".

title: Angelita Lind


text:
Talk:Ferociously Stoned

Album Covers
Years ago the daddies.com website mentioned in a trivia blurb that Ferociously Stoned had four different album covers. I have only seen two in all my research. Has anybody seen any others?

Unhandledexception 07:14, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

4 covers might be in reference to alternation of the 2 designs over the course of time, rather than 4 different designs. Girls=>skeleton=>girls=>skeleton. I'm not sure about the girl cover, but I've got the earlier skeleton cover, and it is slightly different from the newer version (tones of the colors aren't quite the same, outlines seem "stronger" on the newer version).63.78.97.2 (talk) 16:01, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ferociously Stoned


text: Talk:Rapid City Muscle Car

title: Talk:Rapid City Muscle Car


text:
Talk:Business magnate

Bill Gates
I think Bill Gates qualifies, but I'm not sure. Nelson Ricardo 06:09, Oct 11, 2004 (UTC)

 * I would agree that Bill Gates could, and should, be considered a "famous industrialist" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.7.158.82 (talk • contribs) 16:57, February 24, 2006

 * industrialist should be merged, but fo gates, it's not right. industrialist was coined in an era where the money was to be made from manufacturing, mining, or other such grand endeavors dealing with massive scale and the physical world.  Yes, Gates deals with the physical world too, but his major contribution is in software, which is much more ephemeral, almost akin to publishing.  since "informationalist" was never coined to replace "industrialist", we're kinda stuck.  he's a magnate, a tycoon, a mogul, but industrialist, not really. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.198.46.150 (talk • contribs) 22:25, September 2, 2006

 * Bullshit. If Hearst is an industrialist so is Gates.  He's the captain of an industry--the compouter industry.  Of course he's a bloody industrialist.  -Dicky Betz — Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.148.92.18 (talk • contribs) 11:44, January 30, 2007

Etymology
The article name and listing uses "magnate", but the etymology only explains the origins of "tycoon" and "mogul". Anyone care to elaborate? Unigolyn 09:57, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

 * The mention of the Greek word "Τύχη" is so funny. It's exactly what the father from the movie "My Big Fat Greek Wedding" does with "Kimono". You never know, there may have been ancient traders semi-fluent in many languages that had spread the words we use today, way before the modern day usage begun. --Pandaflex (talk) 00:17, 24 October 2010 (UTC)

 * I am actually removing the part that mentions the Greek word, since the two words are unrelated --Meidei (talk) 12:50, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

How about some women?
The glaring omissions I can think of are Oprah Winfrey ($1.5 billion, TV, publishing), Martha Stewart ($650 million, home furnishings, TV, publishing), Leona Helmsley (over $5 billion, real estate) right off the bat, to say nothing of the non-US female tycoons of the last century. Or should that be a separate "Business Tycette" article? If no-one else objects, I'm going to start adding some women and non-US folks to this currently thin list. Strike71 05:56, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Added a few people to the "notable magnates" list, including six women with greater business empires, fortunes, and more influence than many of the men on the list. Also, Paul Allen, who co-founded Microsoft with Bill Gates and defines a "Tycoon" in many ways (Microsoft, Vulcan, Scaled Composites and the Ansari X-Prize, professional sports teams, $500mil. in philanthropic gifts, etc.) better than Bill Gates, at least as far as variety of interests goes. Also cleaned up the alphabetizing and organization a tad. Strike71 21:50, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Came back and saw Ms. Winfrey and Ms. Stewart were removed - if they aren't business magnates, with the media empires they control, then half the other people on the list aren't either. Also, the person that eliminated them didn't sign in and removed only them, which is just snarky. strike71 06:16, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Rupert Murdoch
Surely he belongs on this list? He's tagged 'Media mogul' on just about every page about him. 213.122.234.165 (talk) 20:17, 26 May 2010 (UTC)

Page not in English!
I believe something really huge is wrong here. To me, the whole article is displayed in Spanish! I do not have the knowledge to fix this, but it feels like a critical error... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Olof nord (talk • contribs) 14:33, May 16, 2011

This page should be deleted.
A Business "magnate" is not a thing. It is certainly not a thing deserving of a wikipedia page. You're all idiots, especially whoever wrote this page. 24.235.129.212 (talk) 02:29, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Industrialist

 * The use of the term "industrialist" to refer to a newpaper magnate is disputed, for example http://lansner.ocregister.com/2012/05/15/industrialist-bid-18-5m-for-newport-coast-estate/162702/ makes a clear distinction: "A wealthy Japanese newspaper publisher and industrialist"
 * I don't think the usage to refer to a "shipping magnate" is common.
 * I'm not familiar with the use of the term with respect to the rail industry - the term "railway baron" might be applicable here
 * The claim that the term has fallen out of use is also disputed, for example in a search "Lakshmi Mittal Industrialist" shows extensive use of the term in recent news.Oranjblud (talk) 22:32, 24 May 2012 (UTC)

Donald Trump
I'm removing Trump from the list. Yes, he "owns" a lot of real estate but he also owes billions and the stock listing for one of his holdings had to be delisted because the price went so low. In the late '80's, he told everyone, "I'm a multi-billionaire," but when the bankruptcy courts became involved, he was over $800 million in debt. The only reason he didn't have to declare bankruptcy was because the banks didn't want to start running his real estate companies.TL36 (talk) 02:10, 19 December 2013 (UTC)

Added Oprah Winfrey and Martha Stewart to the list already to increase the representation of females. Forbes still lists Trump as a billionaire as of 2014 and he's not just in real estate, but casino's, entertainment, book publishing, and started his own fashion line though I agree with your removal nonetheless. Backendgaming (talk) 05:02, 24 July 2014 (UTC)

Redirects here and possible additions
For the record I have made sure that there are several redirects to this article from things like lumber baron, railroad baron, etc. These are very commonly used terms to refer to people prominent in the history of the development of the U.S., the West in particular. (I agree with the above that we need more women and global names but urge people to cite and/or discuss those additions on this talk page. Oprah seems like a natural for media mogul.) Valfontis (talk) 20:52, 30 March 2014 (UTC)

Martha Stewart and Oprah Winfrey
Martha Stewart and Oprah Winfrey are not business magnates. Why are they in this list. I will remove if sufficient reason is not given. A rich person is not a business magnate. A TV star earning great amounts of money is not a business magnate. Using their own name as a brand to endorse products also does not count as being a business magnate. Ergzay (talk) 02:18, 15 April 2015 (UTC)

Elon Musk
I added Elon Musk because he is clearly the future captain of industry for solar power, automotive and rockets, satellites and colonizing other planets.--Arado (talk) 08:35, 20 June 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 September 2018
Change Magnate to Magnet. . MotherInet (talk) 13:30, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

 * No, "magnate" is correct, regardless of Elon Musk's idiotic antics. Boing! said Zebedee (talk) 15:05, 8 September 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 25 September 2018
Magnates should be Magnet 66.27.46.82 (talk) 19:36, 25 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. RudolfRed (talk) 19:39, 25 September 2018 (UTC)

Representation
Surely at least a few images of highly successful female entrepeneurs could be added here... Any suggestions?

--LGLou (talk) 14:44, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

 * @LGLou: Perhaps Gina Rinehart and Karren Brady? The problem I have going through the list of richest women in the world is that quite a few aren't known as magnates in their own right: the richest few (Francoise Bettencourt Meyers, Alice Walton, MacKenzie Scott, Julia Koch, Miriam Adelson) are heiresses rather than the one who started the company or people who derive their wealth mainly from their families. I agree that it's jarring, but "highly successful female entrepeneurs" isn't the same as "business magnate". Anna Wintour and Oprah might be highly successful women in their own right, but do they have "ownership of multiple lines of enterprise"? To be honest, keeping the gallery might be more trouble than it's worth. Sdrqaz (talk) 17:59, 4 August 2021 (UTC)

what is mag/#5/ogs or whatever?
Seems like a typo AboutMeREAL (talk) 12:05, 25 November 2022 (UTC)

Renaming to industrialist
I propose that this article be renamed industrialist for the following reasons: 1) it is far more common. A Google search for "business magnate" turns up less than 1 million results versus over 12 million for "industrialist" 2) Industrialist is the name of the large category tree, see Category:Industrialists

Thoughts?--User:Namiba 13:29, 18 January 2023 (UTC)
 * good idea according to Google search, there are over 5,000,000 scholarly articles and books using the term "software industry" https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0,27&q=Software+industry and also 27,000 scholarly books and articles that use the term "software industrialist" Rjensen (talk) 14:34, 18 January 2023 (UTC)

Awful, un-encyclopedic gallery
The gallery is wholly unsourced. It should be reformatted as a bullet-point list, with proper citations, and an explanation of why each is considered a business magnate (what industries they dominated, etc.) DFlhb (talk) 18:14, 21 April 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Business magnate


text:
User talk:JesseHogan

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The Humungous Image Tagging Project
Hi. You've helped with the WikiProject Wiki Syntax, so I thought it worth alerting you to the latest and greatest of Wikipedia fixing project, User:Yann/Untagged Images, which is seeking to put copyright tags on all of the untagged images. There are probably, oh, thirty thousand or so to do (he said, reaching into the air for a large figure). But hey: they're images ... you'll get to see lots of random pretty pictures. That must be better than looking for at at and the the, non? You know you'll love it. best wishes --Tagishsimon (talk)

South Park Republicans & Democrats
Thanks for the backup in there. It's been a battle since November. Any support would be helpful. googuse 04:07, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

Don't forget the South Park Democrats!...Uh, if there ARE anyone, that is! 'Prolly in Canada, that is ;) --OleMurder 18:12, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Autodidact Category
Jesse, this is a great category. But when you are adding the autodidact category to pages, be sure to make sure you include the "surname, first name" format after the "|" character within the brackets. (If you need to see an example to understand what I am talking about, look at the edits on James Merrill or David Geffen, which are now repaired.) This is to ensure that the entries appear in autobiographical order by last name on the Category page itself. Sandover 07:12, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I noticed that was the standard but doing that for 180 pages would have taken more time than I had. I was counting on each page's primary editors to correct that.JesseHogan 16:37, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hi Jesse, thanks for starting up the category for autodidacts; it's a good idea.--Nectarflowed 19:23, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * No problem. Thanks for the recognition. JesseHogan 20:21, 6 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Hey, don't worry about it, I had the time to do it and you didn't. Everyking 00:16, 7 Mar 2005 (UTC)

categories
Please understand the category system. There are categories within categories. Yes, humans are primates, but there are a few subcategories in category:primates. One of those is a better fit for the category:human, and that is category:apes. Humans are apes, apes are primates. There is no categorical reason to stick category:human in the broader category:primates. Even the description on category:human mentions hominid, which is even more narrow division within the apes (specifically, it's all the great apes). I'm restoring the category to its rightful place, and making mention of this note on category talk:human. - UtherSRG 14:35, Apr 12, 2005 (UTC)

Image:AnonFTPSession.jpg listed for deletion
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Nomination of Rockford Lhotka for deletion
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ArbCom elections are now open!
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Proposed deletion of DBG

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