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Jaswant Singh

Major Jaswant Singh (3 January 1938 –27 September 2020) was an officer of the Indian Army and an Indian Cabinet Minister. He was one of the founding members of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP), and was one of India's longest serving parliamentarians, having been a member of the Lok Sabha or the Rajya Sabha almost continuously between 1980 and 2014. He was NDA's Vice-presidential candidate in the 2012 Indian vice-presidential election. Singh was the only leader from Rajasthan who had the distinction of becoming the Minister Of External Affairs, Finance and Defence.

He was elected on a BJP ticket to the Rajya Sabha five times (1980, 1986, 1998, 1999, 2004) and to the Lok Sabha four times (1990, 1991, 1996, 2009). During the Vajpayee administration between 1998 and 2004, he held multiple cabinet portfolios including Finance, External Affairs and Defence. He also served as the Deputy Chairman of the Planning Commission between 1998 and 1999. In the aftermath of India's nuclear tests of 1998, he was deputed by Prime Minister Vajpayee to act as India's representative to hold repeated, long-term dialogue with the United States (represented by Strobe Talbott) on matters related to nuclear policy and strategy; the outcome of the sustained engagement was positive for both countries. After his party lost power in 2004, he served as Leader of Opposition in the Rajya Sabha from 2004 to 2009.

Singh incurred the displeasure of his party colleagues when, after the party suffered its second successive defeat in 2009, he circulated a note demanding a thorough discussion on the debacle. Weeks later, a book authored by him was released, in which he was found to have written sympathetically about Jinnah. Post the event, Singh found himself marginalised within the party. In the elections of 2014, his party decided not to field him from any constituency. He decided to contest anyway as an independent from his native constituency of Barmer (against Col. Sonaram Chaudhary) in Rajasthan. He was expelled from the BJP on 29 March 2014 when he did not withdraw his independent candidature, and went on to lose the election.

On 7 August 2014, he suffered a fall in the bathroom of residence and suffered a serious head injury. In June 2020 he was admitted to Army's Research and Referral hospital in Delhi for treatment. He remained in a state of coma for six years till his death in 2020.

Early life
Singh was born on 3 January 1938 in the village of Jasol in Rajputana Agency of British India (now Balotra district) of Rajasthan, India in a Rajput family. His father was Sardar Singh Rathore of Jasol and mother was Kunwar Baisa. Singh was married to Sheetal Kanwar. They had two sons. His elder son, Manvendra Singh, is a former Member of Parliament from Barmer. He was an officer in the Indian Army in the 1960s and was an alumnus of Mayo College and the National Defence Academy, Khadakwasla.

After his education from the National Defence Academy, he was enrolled in the Indian Army in the year 1957 and was designated to the position of the Captain of the Central India Horse unit of allegiance. And he was also a participant of Indo-Pakistani War of 1965 and was the commander of his unit and was the Major at the time of Sino-Indian border dispute of the year 1965 after which he retired from the Indian Army in the next year, 1966 to join politics after serving the Armed forces for 10 years. He was a close accompany of Bhairon Singh Shekhawat and made his links with Bharatiya Jana Sangh. He was a member and associate of Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh from the 1960s.

Career events
In the government of Vajpayee, Singh was External Affairs Minister, and later went on to become the Finance Minister. He was also the Defence Minister when George Fernandes was forced to resign after the Tehelka exposure.

Singh is widely regarded for his handling of relations with the United States which were strained after the 1998 Indian nuclear tests but which ameliorated soon after culminating in the 2000 visit of U.S. President Bill Clinton to India. His skill as a negotiator and diplomat during talks with the United States has been well acknowledged by his U.S. counterpart Strobe Talbott.

Singh has been frequently criticised by political parties for escorting terrorists to Kandhahar, Afghanistan. They were released by the Government of India in exchange for passengers from the hijacked Indian Airlines flight IC 814.

Singh was denied a Member of Parliament ticket for Barmer by BJP for the 2014 Indian general election over Col. Sonaram Choudhary. Unhappy, Singh filed his nomination as an independent candidate from Barmer constituency. Subsequently, he was expelled from BJP for six years and lost the election.

Political life
Singh entered politics in the 1960s, with the first few years of his political life seeing limited recognition, until he was initiated in the Jan Sangh. He tasted success in his political career in 1980 when he was first selected for the Rajya Sabha, the upper house of Indian parliament. He served as Finance minister in the short-lived government of Atal Bihari Vajpayee, which lasted just from 16 May 1996, to 1 June 1996. After Vajpayee became Prime Minister again two years later, he became Minister for External Affairs of India, serving from 5 December 1998 until 1 July 2002. Responsible for foreign policy, he dealt with high tensions between India and Pakistan. In July 2002 he became Finance Minister again, switching posts with Yashwant Sinha. He served as Finance Minister until the defeat of the Vajpayee government in May 2004 and was instrumental in defining and pushing through the market-friendly reforms of the government. He was conferred the Outstanding Parliamentarian Award for the year 2001. On 19 August 2009, he was expelled from BJP after criticism over his remarks in his book which allegedly praised the founder of Pakistan in his book Jinnah – India, Partition, Independence. His last major position was as Leader of Opposition in the Rajya Sabha from 2004 to 2009.

He was denied a ticket by the party to contest the 2014 Lok Sabha Parliamentary Elections from the Barmer-Jaisalmer constituency in Rajasthan. He was subsequently expelled from the BJP after deciding to contest the elections as an independent candidate and lost to his former party's candidate Col. Sonaram Choudhary. Jaswant Singh was elected from Darjeeling Seat from the year 2009 to 2014.

Ministries and Work
Jaswant Singh held many ministries under the government of Atal Bihari Vajpayee, including several important such as Defence, External Affairs and Finance. He has also held many important positions including that of Electronics and Science and Technology.

Minister of Finance (First time)
Singh remained as the Minister of Finance in the short-lived government of First Vajpayee government from 16 May 1996 to 1 June 1996. In the short-lived government where he was Minister for just 24 days and there was also economic difficulty, a crisis due to the political instability, and there was a loss of employment similar to the 1991 Indian economic crisis which lead to the decline in the value of Indian currency. It was followed by the instability after the fall of Narsimha Rao government. After this there was a 1996 Bank Scam after this the fall of Atal Bihari Government automatically Singh was removed from the position and succeeded to P. Chidambaram for the position.

Minister of External Affairs
After Atal Bihari Vajpayee becomes the Prime Minister of India for the second time in the year 1998, then Singh was appointed as the Minister of External Affairs and succeeded Atal Bihari Vajpayee himself for the position. He was at that time first Rajasthani to be a Minister of External Affairs of India at Union level in the Central Government. Singh has been one of the most trusted man of Vajpayee and was given task of making good international relation with other nations. He has been represented nation at international level in the times of Kargil War and India's nuclear test. He was the one who went to Kandahar after plane hijack. He remained Minister till 5 December 2002 after the removal of George Fernandes due to the Tehelka conspirancy. As the Minister of External Affairs he launched the first free-trade agreement (with Sri Lanka) in South Asia's history, initiated India's most daring diplomatic opening to Pakistan, revitalised relations with the US, and reoriented the Indian military, abandoning its Soviet-inspired doctrines and weaponry for close ties with the West.

Pokhran-II Pressure
BJP, came to power in 1998 general elections with an exclusive public mandate. BJP's political might had been growing steadily in strength over the past decade over several issues. At that time after the successful test of the Second Nuclear Bomb it was considered a masterstroke by the government, it was said that Singh along with Atal Bihari Vajpayee and George Fernandes were the one who played the important role in the functioning. He was one of the members of "Operation Shakti" and among the 12 people who knew about the secret mission. His most essential role came into existence after there were made international pressure on the nation due to the secrecy of the mission when Atal Bihari Vajpayee made a public announcement for the mission. At that time strong criticism was drawn from Canada on India's actions and its High Commissioner. Sanctions were also imposed by Japan on India and consisted of freezing all new loans and grants except for humanitarian aid to India. Some other nations also imposed sanctions on India, primarily in the form of suspension of foreign aid to India and government-to-government credit lines. However, the United Kingdom, France, and Russia refrained from condemning India. The biggest affect was on the relations of India with United States and there were made many restrictions on India and at that time Singh managed to control America at United Nations.

Kargil War
After the Kargil War and the win of Indian Armed forces in July 1999 the use of WMD led to a serious pressure of the world on India and this was led by the anger of United States against India due to Pokhran-II Nuclear test series and supported in the favour of Pakistan. At that time Singh was the one who represented India at the international level and had made many interviews with news channels and also made diplomatic talks with leaders and representatives of the United States], China, France, and many other nations. After that Singh made an interview with Atal Bihari Vajpayee in which to strengthening the position of Indian Government there was a release of a leaked conversation of Pervez Musharraf in which he admitted that he was involved in the attack on India in Kargil district in 1999 and that he also planned an attack to kill Nawaz Sharif and become the President of Pakistan. This was known to be a masterpiece and led to a very strong point resulting in the India's diplomatic relations and proving the burden of war on General Musharraf. After that India was freed from allegations of the Kargil War.

Kandahar Hijack
The terrorists of Taliban hijacked the Indian Airlines Flight 814 on 24 December 1999 on the Tribhuvan International Airport of Kathmandu, Nepal. The motive for the hijacking apparently was to secure the release of Islamist figures held in prison in India. The hostage crisis lasted for seven days and ended after India agreed to release three militants – Mushtaq Ahmed Zargar, Ahmed Omar Saeed Sheikh, and Mulana Masood Azhar. This hijack was also helped by Dawood Ibrahim and Al-Qaeda linked Jihadis. Then after too much suggestions and pressure then Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee agrees on the demand of the hijackers of Taliban and sends Ajit Doval in Kandahar and after that Vajpayee decided to send Singh as he was the one of the most trusted man. He was sent to Kandahar of Afghanistan to escort the terrorists and take back the crew members. It was also said that Singh has made a secret talks with Taliban Foreign Minister Wakil Ahmed Muttawakil and made an agreement of 3 terrorists in exchange of 170 crew members including men, women and children. Later terrorists also demanded 900 crores rupees and 36 other terrorists, but somehow it was denied. On 31 December 1999 on New Year of 2000 all 176 were released and they all landed to Indira Gandhi International Airport.

The incident is seen as a failure of the BJP government under Prime Minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee and IB chief Ajit Doval said that India would have had a stronger negotiating hand if the aircraft had not been allowed to leave Indian territory. Doval, the IB chief, who led the four-member negotiating team to Kandahar, described the whole incident as a "diplomatic failure" of the government in their inability to make the US and UAE use their influence to help secure a quick release of the passengers. Singh also received criticism for praising the Taliban for their co-operation after the hostages had been returned.

Minister of Defence
Singh was appointed as the Minister of Defence of India in the year 2000 after minister before him, George Fernandes was convicted in the Tehelka case and was forced to resign from his position. He remained as the Minister from 2000 to 2001 after which Fernandes was re-appointed as the Minister of Defence after getting cleanchit in the conspiracy. After that in the year 2002 he was re-appointed as the Minister of Finance of India in the Vajpayee Government.

Finance Minister (Second term)
After returning of George Fernandes as the Defence Minister for the second time after getting cleanchit in Tehelka case, Singh was appointed as the Union Minister of Finance in 2002 and remained till 2004 after the Vajpayee Government lost the 2004 General Election and passed the position to P. Chidambaram. In his reign of 2 years for the second time he has been known to make market-friendly reforms in the Economy of India and due to his good diplomatic skills and good relations with other nations from the times when he was the Minister of External Affairs.

In late 2002 and 2003 the government pushed through economic reforms. Due to the good administration of Jaswant Singh the country's GDP growth exceeded 7% every year from 2003 to 2007, following three years of sub-5% growth. Increasing foreign investment, modernisation of public and industrial infrastructure, the creation of jobs, a rising high-tech and IT industry and urban modernisation and expansion improved the nation's international image. Good crop harvests and strong industrial expansion also helped the economy. The rate of stock growth under him as the Finance Ministry was also at the one of the highest point in the Indian Economic Growth groth history under the period of two years of his ministry and the Inflation rate was also very much good in the period of the two years. From 2002 to 2004, the economy of India was one of the fastest growing in the world and one of the leading agricultural nations and second most output after China.

Leader of Rajya Sabha
Jaswant Singh was appointed as the Member of Parliament of Rajya Sabha for the fourth time in the year 1999 and after the formation of the Vajpayee Government he was appointed as the Leader of Rajya Sabha on 13 October 1999 and remained till the time of fall of the Vajpayee Government on 22 May 2004 and succeeded the position to then Prime Minister, Manmohan Singh. In the time period Jaswant Singh held many crucial positions and ministries and before that he was previously serving in the position of Minister of External Affairs of India at Union Government and in this period he served as Minister of Defence and Finance.

Leader of Opposition (Rajya Sabha)
After the Vajpayee's government fell down and after that Singh who was earlier a Member of Parliament from Rajya Sabha from the state of Rajasthan was appointed as the Leader of Opposition of Rajya Sabha and hold the position for a time period of 5 years from 2004 to 2009. The mastermind of Rajasthan, Bhairon Singh Shekhawat when was appointed as the Vice-President of India and at that time Singh took the responsibility of strengthening the party in Central level and main focus in the state of Rajasthan. After the fall of National Democratic Alliance in the year 2004 and the weakening of senior-BJP leaders like Atal Bihari Vajpayee, Murli Manohar Joshi, Lal Krishna Advani and the politics of other big leaders like Bhairon Singh Shekhawat in central level, Singh as the leader of Opposition shifted his politics for the strengthening of the party in ground roots and in state levels in states of Western India such as Gujarat, Madhya Pradesh and specially Rajasthan. Under this period Singh also served many non political position in the Indian government remaining as the leader of Opposition including: "Member of Committee for General purposes (from 2005-2006)", "Member, Committee on Science and Technology, Environment and Forests (from August 2004 to August 2004)" and "Member of Joint Parliamentary Committee on the Installation of Portraits/Statues of National Leaders and Parliamentarians in Parliament House Complex (August 2004 –May 2009)". After that then he was expelled from the party.

Vice-president nominee
He was the candidate for the post of Vice-president for the NDA in 2012. Singh had filed his nomination papers on 20 July in the presence of National Democratic Alliance coalition leaders. Three sets of papers- one each by L. K. Advani, Sumitra Mahajan and Yashwant Sinha, supporting Singh's candidature were submitted to the returning officer Viswanathan. His candidature was announced by the NDA on 16 July. He meet All India Anna Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam leader Jayalalithaa and Naveen Patnaik of Biju Janata Dal on 6 August asking them to support his candidature. He lost to Hamid Ansari who was the UPA's Vice-presidential candidate. In the Election he got 238 seats and received 32.69% of the votes, while Hamid Ansari got 490 seats and received 67.31% of the votes.

Controversy

 * A controversy erupted immediately after the release of his book, "A Call to Honour," in which Singh insinuated that a mole had existed in the Prime Ministerial Office during the tenure of P. V. Narasimha Rao, who had leaked information to U.S. sources about India's nuclear tests. Soon after, Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh challenged him to name the mole. In response, Singh sent a letter to him. The letter, Manmohan Singh said later, had no signature, and no name of any mole. Jaswant Singh then backed off, saying his views on the subject were based on a "hunch".
 * Controversy hovered around him again when on 17 August 2009 another book authored by him, entitled Jinnah: India-Partition-Independence, was released. In this he praised Mohammad Ali Jinnah and claimed that the centralised policy of Jawaharlal Nehru was responsible for Partition. He was later expelled from the primary membership of BJP as a result of the ensuing controversy. In interviews with media he quoted BJP as narrow-minded and to have limited thought. In 2010, he was readmitted to BJP.

Death
In June 2020, Singh was admitted to the Delhi's Army Hospital and was being treated for sepsis with multi-organ dysfunction syndrome and effects of a severe head injury he suffered as a result of a fall in 2014. On 27 September he suffered cardiac arrest. Singh died at the age of 82 years. His death was triggered as a sign of honour and was mourned with full esteem and with state funeral. His last rites were done by his son Manvendra Singh and was cremated in Jodhpur, Rajasthan with full Hindu rituals. Due to COVID-19 pandemic only family members were present and very few relatives. Prime Minister Narendra Modi reacted on his death stated that "Jaswant Singh Ji served our nation diligently, first as a soldier and later during his long association with politics. During Atal Ji's Government, he handled crucial portfolios and left a strong mark in the worlds of Finance, Defence and External affairs. Saddened by his demise"

Positions held

 * 1) 1980 –Elected to Rajya Sabha (1st term)
 * 2) 1986 –Re-elected to Rajya Sabha (2nd term)
 * 3) 1986 –1989 –Member, Public Accounts Committee, Rajya Sabha
 * 4) 1986 –1989 –Member, Committee on Privileges, Rajya Sabha
 * 5) 1986 –1989 –Member, Committee on Public Undertakings, Rajya Sabha
 * 6) 1989 –Elected to 9th Lok Sabha from Jodhpur
 * 7) 1990 –1992 –Member, Consultative Committee constituted under the Punjab State Legislature (Delegation of Power) Act, 1987
 * 8) 1989 –1991 –Member, Panel of chairmen, Lok Sabha
 * 9) 1991 –1996 –Chairman, Estimates Committee
 * 10) 1991 –Re-elected to 10th Lok Sabha (2nd term) from Chittorgarh
 * 11) 1991 –1992 –Chairman, Committee on Environment and Forests
 * 12) 1991 –1994 –Member, Business Advisory Committee
 * 13) 1992 –Member, Joint Parliamentary Committee to enquire into Irregularities in Securities and Banking Transactions
 * 14) 1993 –1996 –Chairman, Standing Committee on Energy
 * 15) 1996 –Re-elected to 11th Lok Sabha (3rd term) from Chittorgarh
 * 16) May 1996 –June 1996 –Union Cabinet Minister, Finance
 * 17) March 1998 –February 1998 –Deputy Chairman, Planning Commission
 * 18) July 1998 –Re-elected to Rajya Sabha (3rd term)
 * 19) December 1998 –July 2000 –Union Cabinet Minister, External Affairs
 * 20) February 1999 –October 1999 –Union Cabinet Minister, Electronics (Simultaneous charge)
 * 21) August 1999 –October 1999 –Union Cabinet Minister, Surface Transport (Simultaneous charge)
 * 22) October 1999 –Re-elected to Rajya Sabha (4th term)
 * 23) March 2001 –October 2001 –Union Cabinet Minister, Defence (Simultaneous charges)
 * 24) July 2002 –April 2004 –Union Minister, Finance & Company Affairs
 * 25) April 2002 –May 2004 –Union Cabinet Minister, Finance
 * 26) 2004 –Re-elected to Rajya Sabha (5th term)
 * 27) 2004 –Leader of Opposition, Rajya Sabha
 * 28) August 2004 –August 2006 –Member, Committee on Science and Technology, Environment and Forests
 * 29) August 2004 –May 2009 –Member, Joint Parliamentary Committee on the Installation of Portraits/Statues of National Leaders and Parliamentarians in Parliament House Complex
 * 30) August 2005 –Member, General Purposes Committee
 * 31) 2009 –Re-elected to 15th Lok Sabha (4th term) from Darjeeling
 * 32) August 2009 –December 2009 –Chairman, Committee on Public Accounts
 * 33) September 2009 –Member, Committee on Budget
 * 34) January 2010 –Member, Committee on Public Accounts

title: Jaswant Singh


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User talk:Vermilion

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The edit war on Death Star
It is bad manners to revert a significant edit without discussion on the page's relevant talk page. Please, before reverting my revert, look at Resolving disputes and Three-revert rule. Do I have to put Death star on Requests for comment again? Samboy 04:41, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Star Destroyer
Where are you getting your information, Vermilion, for "Imperator" and "Dreadnought" you are wrong and should stop reverting the "Star Destroyer" article page back to the wrong information and without and hint of justifying your reverts. The changes I have been making to the article are far more accurate and true with a vastly larger amount of supporting information and evidence than your weak and unsupported claim. Stop posting incorrect and false information.

 * Revenge of the Sith Incredible Cross-sections and Inside the Worlds of the Star Wars Trilogy. The WEG Executor size is wrong, as anyone can see just by watching the movies. --Vermilion 07:23, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

The angles from which it is view are very misleading and even then ILM wasn't making the models in the films to coincide with the given information. Before the film was even released Twentieth Century Fox was distributing merchandise. Furthermore, where in the films is Imperator ever used? It is completely incorrect and you have no argument on that matter. Also look at the scale from Return of the Jedi and you'll most certainly see that it is very different from The Empire Strikes Back. Yes, the films are the ultimate canon but since the films themselves do not give numbers, fan measurements are not admissible evidence for such claims. May 28th, 2005A.D.

 * Wrong again. ILM specifically made smaller ISD models just to use in scenes with the Executor. Executor is always shown to be around 11 times longer than an ISD in ROTJ. "Imperial class" is also never said in the movies. What is said is "Imperial Star Destroyer." Thinking that that makes it "Imperial class" is no different than saying "American cruiser" must mean "American class cruiser" or "Japanese battleship" has to mean "Japanese class battleship." The Venator is a "Republic Star Destroyer", so are you going to start renaming it "Republic class"? --Vermilion 07:59, 28 May 2005 (UTC)

The context in which Imperial Star Destroyer is used through the original trilogy is such that it does indicate the class. When C-3P0 reference the probability of successfully engaging an Imperial Star Destroyer..., he is specifically referring to the Imperial Star Destroyer chasing them, if it were a Carrack class cruiser he would have said that or if it were the Executor he would have said Super Star Destroyer. Furthermore the context of every reference to Imperial in Star Wars literature makes no mistake in indicating that it is the Imperial class. My favorite and one of the best reference collections is the entire series of Essential Guides and now the New Essential Guides, which have taken the prequels into account. In both of those sources they refer to it as the Imperial Star Destroyer, Imperial being the class designation. And since you like using the Incredible Cross Sections books so much, the original trilogy cross sections for the Imperil Star Destroyer indeed reference it as Imperial. Other ships in the Alliance fleet are referenced similarly, like Mon Calamari Cruisers. The ships share the same name as the race that built them but that does not mean that the term Mon Calamari Cruiser is simply describing the ships origins. It is the Mon Calamari class, just like it is the Imperial class Star Destroyer. If you go to any of the scenes in the Emperor’s Throne room in ROTJ you can clearly see that the Executor is indeed only five times the length of the surrounding Imperial Star Destroyers. 10:29 A.M. May 28th, 2005A.D.

Vermillion if you search for yourself on the star dreadnaught and keeper of the holocron you'll find there is no such link. whoever wrote that line of crap is not telling the truth. "Star Dreadnaught" is a fan created name. (TracksZ06 10:02, 25 January 2006 (UTC))

The name Imperator is a fan created named, Geoffrey Mandel stated Imperator is not official nor are his blueprints. (TracksZ06 10:02, 25 January 2006 (UTC))

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ArbCom elections are now open!
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title: User talk:Vermilion


text:
Talk:James Larkin

Date of birth
Although Larkin himself, and many subsequent writers, thought he had been born in 1876, his birth certificate actually shows (pace O'Connor) that he was born in 1874. Hence the discrepancy between the date cited and the title of one of the references.Palmiro 00:59, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I have a copy of the parish records for James Larkin, the son of James & Mary Ann (McNulty)which state that he was was baptised in St Patrick's church,Toxteth Park, Liverpool, 04 Feb 1874 (Born 28 Jan 1874). — Preceding unsigned comment added by Daulby2011 (talk • contribs) 01:07, 30 October 2011 (UTC)

This article should be updated to show a birth date of 1874. The baptismal record and the England & Wales, FreeBMD Birth Index, 1837-1915 show his birth in January 1874. The incorrect birth date from here and FindAGrave (another key genealogical source) is propogating inaccuracies.AJCottrell (talk) 09:16, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

 * Personally I would recommend updating the "early years" section (either via a footnote or in the text) to qualify that different sources offer different dates. In Nevin's James Larkin: Lion of the Fold: The Life and Works of the Irish Labour Leader (2006) for example he notes that "Larkin believed his birthday was 21 January 1876; in fact it was 28 January 1874". Otherwise it will only lead to confusion. And perhaps even edit warring. Not to mind, for example, questions as to why his gravestone gives 1876. While the statue on O'Connell street was updated after its erection/dedication from 1876 to 1874. If nobody has other thoughts, I might update to reflect and explain these differences. Rather than bulldozing one over the other... Guliolopez (talk) 11:45, 23 June 2019 (UTC)

Issues outstanding for work
1. Larkin as editor (The Harp in 1910, the Irish Worker in his ITGWU period, and several other organs) 2. The tempestuous nature of Larkin's relationships with colleagues and his autocratic manageent style, which was a factor in many of his rows and failures, perhaps needs to be pointed out in a more general way. 3. Account of Belfast strike is as per Boyd (cited in article) and may need to be re-examined 4. More detail on period 1907 - 1913 Palmiro 01:43, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

5. Someone can add in that his aim was to help unskilled labourers to unionize. Most skilled / craft workers had their own unions by 1900.Red Hurley 08:57, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

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BetacommandBot (talk) 14:56, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Family origins & Co Down
The article has nothing about his parents' place of birth in Ireland, and his mother's surname. This would make it better. It also doesn't tell us why he ended up living his final years in Co Down, when he retired, and how many children he had. 109.77.86.100 (talk) 20:23, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

march in liverpool
a march comemorating him took place in liverpool this week, there was an oposing demonstration giving out leaflets saying larkin was IRA and that this march was for the IRA here a local news link http://www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/2012/07/21/massive-police-operation-keeps-rivals-apart-at-james-larkin-march-100252-31445627/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.5.43.34 (talk) 21:20, 21 July 2012 (UTC)

The above post is somewhat misguided. A local paper (Liverpool Echo)some years ago highlighted the Liverpudlian marching drum and fife band as connected to Irish Republican Activists such as IRA/INLA/RIRA etc (call them what you will) therefore the protestations were not aimed at James Larkin himself but the band. The band its'self issues a regular blog promoting such organisations classed as 'statements' http://jimlarkinrfb.blogspot.co.uk/ of which the last one ends "Victory to the IRA" I do enjoy the St Pats parades but clarity and not personal allegience should not be confused for the success of James Larkin's memory to prevail, — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.234.132.134 (talk) 20:05, 2 March 2013 (UTC)

Fair day's work, fair day's pay
An editor recently added a claim that Larkin created the phrase, "a fair day's work for a fair day's pay", providing the citation of a recent article. The article made a bit less of a claim, stating that it was, "one of his less well-remembered slogans," which might simply mean he said it often. The claim he coined it seems highly dubious to me. The American Federation of Labor had a similar phrase ("a fair day's wage for a fair day's work") as a slogan since the 1800's. Unless Larkin himself coined it for them, he surely would have heard of the slogan at least from being involved in the IWW in the 1910's. The Industrial Workers of the World had a criticism of that motto in the preamble to its constitution since its founding in 1905. If this claim is true, I think it needs better citation than a passing mention in an evergreen opinion piece, and there's several articles to update to reflect the information. If no objections, I'll remove the claim. djr13 (talk) 08:09, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

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"Commander-in-chief"
(The following thread is from a discussion in the UserTalk namespace. I have moved it here as, it seems, the topic is not closed.)

Hello, I'm Guliolopez. Your recent edit to the James Larkin article appears to have misrepresented the source. I have reverted it. Specifically, the source you reference (Brian Hanley, 'The Irish Citizen Army after 1916', page 40) is clear in that this title (overtly put in quotes by Hanley) was ascribed to Larkin by a limited number of dissenting ICA members. These "airquotes" make it quite clear that this was not an official or more broadly ascribed title. The passage is quite clear on this:
 * In June a number of ICA officers including McCormack, de Couer and John Hanratty, attacked the Worker's Army idea as a plot [and] Claiming to owe allegiance to Larkin as 'commander-in-chief', the [limited number of dissenting] officers berated the 'Judases' who had stood aloof from the ICA

Please be careful not to misrepresent sources. Thanks. Guliolopez (talk) 08:45, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

 * This is not a misrepresentation, the context of the comment made in the reference, (although nothing is "made clear" as you attempt to claim) does indeed show that this was a limited and unofficial group, however this is irrelevant as their claims relate to Larkin's previous position as commander of the ICA following Jack White's decision to leave for the Irish volunteers, and his continuing legacy and influence over the philosophy of the group. Slade121 (talk) 12:19, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

 * If Larkin's previous position was titled "commander-in-chief" of the ICA, then please provide a source that doesn't involve "airquotes" and confirms its use beyond (by your own admission) a limited number of dissenting/schismed ICA members. Thanks. Guliolopez (talk) 19:31, 7 June 2018 (UTC)

Given a recent edit and reversion, I would repeat the request that an editor seeking to make a change would provide a source for that change. As per my recent edit summary, the infobox should reflect the body. And the content of the body should be supported by reference. Neither is the case with these recent edits. "Commander-in-Chief" is not a title that someone "inherits" or is "assumed", so - if to be retained - there should be something concrete to support it. Thanks. Guliolopez (talk) 01:00, 4 January 2019 (UTC)

Spy from Ireland?
Can someone please explain why Larkin is categorised as "Spy from Ireland"? The article itslef doesn't mention any such activitities.--Nico b. (talk) 06:26, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * That category was added in March 2008 in a series of edits relating to Larkin's apparent association with the Black Tom explosion. Covered in the "In the US" section. In which Larkin is linked with other "German agents" (spies). Guliolopez (talk) 08:47, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Having re-read the article as well as Black Tom explosion all I find is that Larkin was suspected but denied being part of an operation carried out by german spies. In my opinion that is not nearly enough to classify him as a spy.Nico b. (talk) 11:25, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Hi. I'm not advocating the inclusion of the category (or the related text) one way or the other. I was just addressing your question. If you are proposing a change, then other editors may be interested to hear the suggestion. And may be interested to comment. Cheers. Guliolopez (talk) 11:37, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Checking the sources I have at hand plus what can be found online I find no reference to support the claim that he was a spy. In his anti war activities he certainly followed the old motto "England's difficulty is Ireland's opportunity" and ready to ally with anyone he saw as possibly helpful, but no source known to me claims that he spied. This article in the Irish Times is interesting: . If no reliable sources are available to support the claim of Larkin being a spy I suggest to remove the category.--Nico b. (talk) 16:11, 12 June 2019 (UTC)
 * I remove the category now as long as noone comes forward with sources.--Nico b. (talk) 22:23, 15 June 2019 (UTC)

"Some commentators'
The usage of the word some, does read poorly as i stated in the edit. It comes across as a countering to the point that is trying to be made, with the deliberate tempering of the statement by its limiting to 'some commentators' does not as perhaps was intended deliver accuracy but rather gives the impression that this respect was largely at odds with the general consensus on Larkin, that or the edit relates to the editor's (User:Guliolopez) personal opinions on the subject. Using the word various not only improves the read, but delivers the same level of accuracy in that its usage does not seek to claim that respect and support for the subject was unconditionally and unanimously the case. User:Grosseteste

 * Hello. Again. Yes. It is tempering the point being made. And yes, that is deliberate. Because, no, "support for the subject" was NOT "unconditionally and unanimously the case". In the subject's lifetime. Or in the 100 years since. As is clear in the body. Which the lead should reflect.
 * I say this because the body is quite clear (in the "Return to Ireland" section) that Larkin was not "unconditionally and unanimously" supported. Either by his contemporaries, colleagues or later commentators.
 * For example, as reflected upon by Donal Nevin (otherwise an admirer of Larkin) in his bio James Larkin: Lion of the Fold (2006/chapter 40) through Larkin's personal attacks and death-threats (on William O'Brian, Tom Johnson and other erstwhile colleagues) "not only had he alienated practically all the leaders of the movement, he had distanced himself from the mass of trade union members". To claim that this suggests unconditional and unanimous support is disingenuous. At best.
 * Or, for example, in Emmet O'Connor's objectively titled Big Jim Larkin: Hero or Wrecker? (2016), he covers how Larkin was perceived. At the time. And since. And not through the subjective lens that you seem to be trying to impose on the reader. Which is neither supported by the text, the sources, or the facts.
 * (FWIW. Unlike your good self, who seems intent on ignoring the facts/sources/text in favour of your own POV, I have no "personal opinions" on the subject. Rather my role is to temper the subjective options being imposed by other editors. Including the several profiles which you have opted to use to push that POV.)
 * Cheers. Guliolopez (talk) 11:20, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Perhaps tempering was too fair a description, as in reality it is deliberately trying to say the opposite to what the sentence would otherwise say, which as i said did not suggest unconditional and unanimous support despite what you have previously just said. 'Various', as i said implies some rather than all commentators supported Larkin, which of course is never the case with any figure who takes a particular line or stance in a nationally important issue, perhaps an additional countering point on his opponents could have been added. However this does not change the fact that your edits rather than level the issue take it the other way and give completely the opposite implication. I appreciate your use of references for your statements which as i said could perhaps be added as a counter point, i note that my additions relating to Bernard Shaw and James Connolly are also referenced. What reason could i possibly have for trying to create a subjective lens through which to view this article, as a scholar of history my remit is to take into account both sides of the divide with the intent of giving a fair and impartial view on a subject matter rather than influence opinion to give an overwhelmingly positive portrayal. Moreover i do not appreciate the seeming descent into playground attacks in your closing points, as i have in no way ignored facts/sources or texts having referenced the edits i have made to this article and other articles which i have seen fit to to contribute to, nor have i intended to push a POV. Nor do i appreciate your attempts to negate the points or i have made or otherwise damage their legitimacy by raising a separate issue which is not only extraneous in relation to this matter, but has been resolved by and admin (something which at least ostensibly you are not). The intention of end point is seemingly particularly deceptive as as you well know there is one other account which i have made use of not 'several' (which as i'm sure you know is defined specifically as more than two) and which is no longer in use and had never been in use at the same time and had never sought to masquerade as some completely unconnected account (again, as you know from discussion elsewhere). Regards Grosseteste (talk) 12:49, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

 * Hello.
 * I am more than happy to add the counterpoint. And to attribute it (as the Shaw and Connolly points are attributed). And to support it (as the other points are supported). And am delighted that you suggested it.
 * I am less happy with the suggestion that I have engaged in "playground attacks". Or that it is a mischaracterisation to suggest you've "ignored facts/sources or texts". When, in the talk page section almost immediately above this one (involving your other user profile), there's a discussion about the representation/misrepresentation of a source.
 * I am happy to continue to discuss article content issues here. And to discuss any other topics elsewhere. If needed.
 * Cheers. Guliolopez (talk) 13:18, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

The term 'good self' was pretty clearly used in a sarcastic manner, and in combination with claims that i was intent on ignoring facts it is hard to see it as anything but an attempted personal attack. Especially when this comes off the back of an attempt to have me permanently banned from wikipedia seemingly for nothing other than having a different opinion on an ultimately minor issue. I would say that it was a mischaracterisation because the previous discussion on whether or not Larkin was Commander-in-Chief was not a mis-representation of a source rather based on the use of a source which made that claim, and to then claim that this is somehow evidence of me being intent on ignoring facts and sources is rather unfair. You then go on to say 'I am happy to continue to discuss article content issues here. And to discuss any other topics elsewhere. If needed.' Which was the exact point that i was making, that issues relating to other discussions we may have had elsewhere did not need to be relayed here, especially not misleadingly so.

With that said, i am glad that we have found an agreement on the subject matter and hope that we can put any silliness and hostility behind us for the betterment of the content on this article and any other in which our paths may cross. Best Regards Grosseteste (talk) 14:52, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

 * Hi.
 * In terms of content, I have replaced "some" (implying "not all") with "several" (less charged). And have added the counterpoint you suggested instead. With references, as discussed, to the biographical works by Nevin and O'Connor. The latter which overtly attempts seeks balance and an avoidance of whitewashing.
 * In terms of engagement, I am happy to engage in good-faith. Which, as with the term good-self, is not intended sarcastically.
 * Cheers. Guliolopez (talk) 14:28, 17 September 2019 (UTC)

Irish name
Opening a discussion about use of Larkin's Irish name due to difference of opinion with Guliolopez. Larkin was a proud Catholic and Irish nationalist. More than one source is not usually required. Note use of Irish name on James Connolly's page. Opinions welcome. Grosseteste (talk) 19:07, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Hi. As noted by (in Jan 2019 and again in Sep 2019) as well as by me (in Jan 2019 and again in Mar 2021), the relevant guideline here is the IMOS guideline for in-article use of Irish names. In short, the Irish version of a subject's name may be given in the lead "if it is a well-known, commonly used name for that subject". There is no evidence that Jim Larkin is or was well-known by (or even himself went by) the Irish version of his name. The suggestion that "Larkin was a proud Catholic", and therefore would have used (or wanted us to use) the Irish version of his name, is an OR argument. "James Connolly's page includes an Irish name", and therefore so should Larkin's, is an OSE argument. Neither of these arguments sway against the IMOS convention/guideline. (If anything, given the comparatively high volume of sources which use "Séamas Ó Conghaile", relative to the equivalents for "Séamas Ó Lorcáin", the latter is probably even an argument against inclusion.) Guliolopez (talk) 21:07, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

 * Note. According to this bio on Seán O'Casey on the (Irish language) National Database of Irish Biographies, "Jim Larkin wasn't an Irish speaker". I would also note that in every other biographical article from the same source (like this one on trade unionist Seamus Hughes or this on Larkin supporter Proinsias Mac Cana), while other subjects are referred to by their Irish name, Jim Larkin is always referred to as Jim Larkin. There no evidence that Larkin ever went by (or was/is commonly known by) his Irish name. There is every evidence to the contrary. The guideline therefore doesn't support inclusion. Guliolopez (talk) 21:26, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:James Larkin


text:
Category:Hong Kong cricketers

The players listed in this category are Hong Kong cricketers who have played cricket at Test, One Day International, Twenty20 International, first-class, List A, or Twenty20 level. NB: for Test cricketers in this category, their matches would have come for other national teams.

title: Category:Hong Kong cricketers


text:
Kanzashi

Kanzashi (簪) are hair ornaments used in traditional Japanese hairstyles. The term refers to a wide variety of accessories, including long, rigid hairpins, barrettes, fabric flowers and fabric hair ties.

In the English-speaking world, the term is typically used to refer to hair ornaments made from layers of folded cloth used to form flowers, or the technique of folding used to make the flowers.

History
were first used in Japan during the Jōmon period. During that time, the wearing of a single thin rod or stick was considered to hold powers to ward off evil spirits, with people wearing them in their hair for protective purposes. The Jōmon period also saw the introduction of hair combs.

During the Nara period, a variety of Chinese cultural aspects and items were brought to Japan through mutual trade and envoys. The items brought back from China included Chinese hairpins (, 簪; written with the same Chinese character as ), amongst other hair ornaments such as Chinese combs.

During the Heian period, hairstyles shifted from being worn up to being worn long, and tied back relatively low. During this time period, the term began to be used as a general term for any hair ornament, including combs and hairpins.

During the Azuchi-Momoyama period, hairstyles changed from the "hair hanging down" (垂髪) style, to the wider variety of styles worn up – predecessors of modern styles, which made more use of hair ornaments.

came into wider use during the Edo period, when hairstyles became larger and more complicated, using a larger number of ornaments. Artisans began to produce more finely crafted products, including some hair ornaments that could be used as defensive weapons. During the latter part of the Edo period, the craftsmanship of is considered to have reached a high point, with a number of styles and designs created, many of which persist to the modern day.

Modern day
In the present day, traditional Japanese hairstyles are not commonly worn, typically being worn only by geisha,, sumo wrestlers, brides, modern and  re-enactors, with both geisha, brides,  and , and some apprentice geisha in some regions of Japan, using pre-styled wigs instead of their own hair.

As such, few people wear with traditional hairstyles. However, can be, and still are, worn with everyday hairstyles as simple hair accessories; there are a number of varieties and styles of wearing, with modern varieties worn as hairclips both common and popular. In 1982, were officially designated as a traditional Japanese handcraft in the Tokyo region.

Craftsmanship
Professional craftspeople typically undergo a five- to 10-year traditional apprenticeship to learn the trade. Similarly to the combs used to create hairstyles, only a small number of traditionally-trained  craftspeople are left practising the trade within Japan; from 2002 to 2010, their estimated number in the country decreased from 15 to five.

However, the technique of petal-folded fabric  has become a popular craft amongst hobbyists, with a number of books, kits and lessons available on the subject, from sources such as the Tsumami Kanzashi Museum in Shinjuku. Some hobbyists have bypassed the traditional apprenticeship system to establish themselves as independent artisans of in Japan.

Types
are fabricated from a wide range of materials, such as lacquered wood, gold and silver plated metal, tortoiseshell, silk, and recently, plastic. Early plastic made out of materials such as bakelite are considered to be highly valued as collectables.

There are a number of basic styles, with the wear of each typically and traditionally following seasonal arrangements; however, in the present day, the use of seasonal  is observed only by geisha, their apprentices,,  re-enactors and in the costumes for kabuki plays. The use of to finely indicate age and status is a tradition also only held by geisha and.

For, the size, shape, variety and number of can indicate seniority and the stage of apprenticeship, used in tangent with a number of different hairstyles throughout the apprenticeship. Though geisha also wear seasonal, this is typically confined to a change in the colour of.

Basic styles
Despite seasonal and (in the instance of bridalwear) occasional variation, most that are not considered to be  fall into one of a number of basic shapes and appearances.

Other styles
A number of other styles of also exist, though these are typically only worn for specific, uncommon hairstyles, such as by  in certain geisha districts or by characters in some kabuki plays.

– literally meaning "pinched " – are traditional made of squares of dyed or printed silk, folded into a number of shapes to represent flowers, plants and animals.

Each square is folded multiple times with the aid of tweezers and glued onto a base using rice glue. A finished piece may contain anything from five to 75 squares of silk or more. pieces are intended to closely represent the plant or animal they depict; depicting flowers are known as  (literally meaning "flower ").

are usually made from a cluster of flowers, and may include -style strips of metal or long streamers of petals dangling from the main  piece. are well-known for wearing that are typically larger than average.

Generally, are worn in pairs, one on either side of the head, often with a complementary. The flowers are glued to backings of metal or cardboard that are attached to a wire and are bunched together to make bouquets and other arrangements. Additional detailing of stamens is created by the use of, a strong, thin twine made from paper, often coloured and used for decorative works.

Geisha, and especially, wear different for each month of the year.

Seasonal motifs
are highly seasonal, though typically the only people in Japan who follow the seasons closely enough to register seasonal changes are geisha and their apprentices. Since wear more elaborate  than their senior geisha, seasonal changes are even more important for them.

 * January – The design of January usually has an auspicious New Years' theme.  is a popular choice – a combination of pine, bamboo  and plum blossoms  in green, red and white. Other popular motifs are sparrows , spinning tops and battledore paddles.
 * February – Usually trailing deep pink or red plum blossoms, said to symbolise young love and the approach of spring. Another less common theme is the pinwheel and the flowerball that is worn for Setsubun.
 * March – Trailing yellow and white rapeseed flowers and butterflies, as well as peach blossoms, narcissus , camellia  and peonies . A rare  featuring dolls that are used to celebrate the  (Girl's Day Festival) can also be seen during this month.
 * April – Trailing soft pink cherry blossoms mixed with butterflies and  lanterns, signalling the approach of summer. Cherry blossom viewing at this time of year is a major cultural event in Japan.  consisting of a single silver (or sometimes gold) butterfly  made of  cord are common.
 * May – Trailing purple wisteria and flag irises, usually in blue or pink. Irises denote the height of spring while wisteria is a flower often associated with the Imperial Court (wisteria viewing parties have been celebrated by Japanese nobles since the Heian period).
 * June – Trailing green willow leaves with carnations/pinks, or less commonly hydrangea  flowers. This month is the rainy season in Japan, and therefore willow (a water-loving tree) and blue hydrangeas are appropriate.
 * July – featuring a display of fans (usually round  fans, but occasionally folding  fans) are featured. The fans refer to the Gion Festival which takes place at this time. The motifs featured on a 's fan  vary each year, in line with the festival. There are common themes such as dragonflies and lines denoting swirling water. Other  worn during July are fireworks  and dewdrops on grass.
 * August – Large morning glory or  grass. The  grass appears as a starburst of spines made of silvered paper. Senior  wear white-backed silver petals and junior  wear pink-backed silver petals.
 * September – Japanese bellflower . The purple tones are traditionally associated with autumn. Often these will be mixed with bush clover.
 * October – Chrysanthemum . These are well loved in Japan and are a symbol of the Imperial Family. Senior will wear one large flower while junior  will wear a cluster of small flowers. Typical colours include pink, white, red, yellow, and purple.
 * November – Trailing autumnal leaves that are usually composed of the very popular Japanese maple. Maple viewing is the autumnal equivalent of cherry blossom viewing in Japan. Ginkgo and liquidambar leaves are also seen.
 * December – The Japanese make at this time of year, and often decorate trees with them to represent white flowers. It is thought to be good luck to wear  featuring, or rice-cake flowers. December  also feature two , name plates used by kabuki actors, which are initially blank. Traditionally,  visit the Minamiza Theatre and ask two of their favourite kabuki actors to autograph them with their kabuki nom de plume.  for senior  feature green bamboo leaves while junior  have a colourful assortment of lucky charms.
 * New Year – At this time of year all and geisha wear un-husked ears of rice in their hairstyles ( wear it on the right while geisha wear it on the left). These  also feature eyeless white doves. The  and geisha fill in one eye and ask somebody they like to draw the other for good luck in the coming year.

title: Kanzashi


text:
User:Mfg

see User:Markus Fleck-Graffe

title: User:Mfg


text:
Talk:Thomas Friedman

Dispute over a new section
Hi,

I added the following paragraph under the Views section of this article. Calling hundreds of millions of people living in the Middle East insects is a significant part of a journalist's viewpoint, and it is deserved to be known, as his view on Iran or China have been recorded on this very page.

User @Hemiauchenia deleted my addition and noted that "Doesn't seem that notable honestly", which I disagree given the significance of this opinion. I reverted it back, but then the same user added a page on my Talk page that this topic is contentious as it is related to the Arab–Israeli conflict and that I should not edit the page anymore because I do not have 500 edits so far.

I do not have much experience in conflict resolution over Wikipedia, but it seems that explaining the situation on the Talk page is the first step to start it. Hence, my post here. I'd like to get the opinion of more experienced editors on this matter.

I would like to note that this opinion has already attracted a lot of attention. Some of them have been collected here: [Outrage over Bigotry, Islamophobia in Wall Street Journal & New York Times].

Thank you!

The Middle East as the Animal Kingdom
In an opinion piece published at New York Times on Feb 2, 2024, he compared the Middle East as a jungle and many of the Middle Easterns to various types of insects. He compared Iran to a recently discovered species of parasitoid wasp, and Yemen, Syria, and Iraq as caterpillars. Netanyahu is the sifaka lemur, which he observed in Madagascar, and the US as an old lion that is still the king of the Middle East Jungle. SoloGen (talk) 03:26, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

 * Thomas Friedman is a commentator whos profession it is to express opinions. We can't include references to every column he has ever written, and it doesn't make sense to give this single post its own subheading. It might be worth including under the Iran subheading, as the post does seem to have attracted some external comment e.g., but meh. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:35, 5 February 2024 (UTC)
 * It turns out the wasp article was in the article already, but was under the Israel section. I've moved it to the Iran section. As it's already in the article and I don't object to it being there I think dispute is resolved. Hemiauchenia (talk) 03:40, 5 February 2024 (UTC)

Views - Israel
Why is the section that is dedicated to Friedman’s views on Israel start with criticism on his views? No other section of his views have that beginning. Barakpick (talk) 13:27, 10 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Thomas Friedman


text:
Joan Bates

Joan Bates ( Collins; 2 September 1929 – 10 March 2016), also known as Princess Joan of Sealand, was the wife of Paddy Roy Bates, a British entrepreneur who founded the self-proclaimed micronation known as the Principality of Sealand.

Early life
Bates was born Joan Collins on 2 September 1929 at Aldershot in England, the daughter of RSM Albert Collins of the Royal Horse Artillery, and his wife, Elizabeth. The family were later stationed at Shoebury Barracks.

As a young woman, Joan was a carnival queen and model who, according to her son Michael, "modelled for all sorts of companies".

Marriage
Joan met British Army major Paddy Roy Bates at the Kursaal dance hall in Southend-on-Sea. At the time he was recuperating from serious burns suffered during World War II. They married three months later in 1949 at the Caxton Hall Registry Office in London. They had two children, Penelope "Penny" and Michael.

Sealand
In the 1960s, Roy and Joan launched a pirate radio station and on Joan's birthday on 2 September 1967, they declared the Principality of Sealand independent, appointing themselves Prince Roy and Princess Joan, thus making Joan the "self-proclaimed ruler of the world's smallest kingdom".

Death
Bates died on 10 March 2016 at a Leigh-on-Sea, Essex, nursing home, following a long illness. Her funeral was held on 17 March, with her coffin draped with the flag of Sealand. She was survived by her two children, four grandchildren, six great-grandchildren, and two great-great-grandchildren.

Bates featured on at least one postage stamp issued by the Principality, as well as coins inscribed "Princess Joan".

title: Joan Bates


text:
User:Markus Fleck-Graffe~enwiki

This is the Wikipedia user page of Markus Fleck-Graffe.

title: User:Markus Fleck-Graffe~enwiki


text:
Talk:Loom

Untitled

"Looms can range from very small hand-held frames, to large free-standing hand looms, to huge automatic mechanical devices. "

Most of the examples given in the article refer to the last catregory, "huge automatic mechanical devices". What about floor looms, table looms, inkle looms, backstrap looms, things used by handweavers? I've never seen a vertical loom—are they really more common than the horizontal variety?

I appreciate the haute lisse pictures as I have never actually seen one, but probably one is enough. I'll probably replace one of them with a photo of my table loom once I get it photographed.

Other goals: The parts of a loom, how it works, what is is supposed to do (i.e. basically the whole point is to somehow get your warp under tension).

[[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 01:05, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Agreed that the current article is poor in form. I would greatly appreciate, if you can rewrite, add relevant pictures etc. -- Sundar 03:42, Sep 29, 2004 (UTC)
 * I gave it a start. (Obviously an incomplete one, but a start.) I'm not sure how to organize, really. I have a friend who has a frame loom—I'll see if I can get her to take a picture. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 20:02, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Thanks Sarah and others. Now the article is in a far better shape. I've a few pictures of Jacquard looms and power looms in India. I've uploaded one of them and used it at Ettayapuram. I'll try to upload more after some pruning. -- Sundar 06:15, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)

I've repositioned the images. They look OK on the resolution that I'm running at, but may look worse on a smaller monitor. Does anyone have a problem?

I've also put power loom before Jacquard loom, to put them in chronological order. There's also an article on dobby looms on Wikipedia, but I didn't know where to fit that in. Can anyone suggest a placing?
 * Jacquard and Dobby and Cam are all different types of patterning systems, mostly for industrial looms and have different design capabilities. The actual loom attached to the patterning system could be the same in each instance. I suggest you set up a patterning systems heading.   The fourth patterning type is manual, and this is the type used in most looms that aren't in factories: floor looms, tapestry looms, table looms, etc.Pschemp 22:24, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Terminology Section
There may also be a need for a separate section on terminology: Loom has some of the terms, but others are scattered. [[User:Noisy|Noisy | Talk]] 10:31, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * The terminology section is duplicating descriptions that sit pretty well where they are already. I'm tempted to move it to a separate article for reference from the weaving section.  It could also be used for spinning terminology as well.  Some of the terms that I've found in my research aren't clear yet, such as sleying and sett, so if anyone can expand ...  [[User:Noisy|Noisy | Talk]] 00:51, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Sleying is the process of threading the warp yarn through the reed (you can just barely see the little spaces it has to go through here—it's the front part there that it goes through when you are sleying). Usually one speaks of "sleying the reed". You set (verb) the warp at X ends per inch and then you can say that its sett (noun) is X ends per inch. These are both terms that relate more to the process of warping the loom than to the structure of the loom itself. Do we want to get into that here?
 * We can take this in one of two ways. As it stands, it seems reasonable to discuss the parts of a loom in the article on looms (which is not too close to being "too long" at the moment). However, I can see the value in a weaving terminology article. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 00:59, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Oh, and hey, I just cut my latest project off my little table loom, so if there are any parts you would like to see photographed without the warp in the way, let me know. [[User:Aranel|Aranel ("Sarah")]] 01:01, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Weaving needs attention
There's been a couple of edits to Weaving by Special:Contributions/User:194.222.59.249. The edits seem to be made in good faith but appear somewhat unencyclopedic, needing a major rewrite. Can some one watching this page look into that. -- Sundar 10:13, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

weaving
i thought that you could just weave, when using a loom, with your hands. Threading the yarn/fabric with your hands...do you have to use a shuttle????--139.168.95.178 01:00, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

 * It's certainly possible, but has serious disadvantages. A shuttle provides you with a place to compactly keep plenty of yarn so that the weaving can continue unbroken. Trying to do this by hand requires either holding a relatively unwieldy chunk of yarn in hand, or creating unfortunate breaks in the pattern of the weaving. --Eyrian 09:18, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

The subsection "Battening" contains a serious error.

''Battening. As the shuttle moves across the loom laying down the fill yarn, it also passes through openings in another frame called a reed (which resembles a comb).''

"it" in this sentence, following standard (American) English usage, would refer to the shuttle. The shuttle never passes through ... (the) reed. The fill yarn (also called the weft thread) contained in the shuttle never passes through the reed. The warp threads pass through the reed. The weaver uses the reed to batten the just thrown weft into the fell.

Another less serious error occurs in the following sentence:

''With each picking operation, the reed presses or battens each filling yarn against the portion of the fabric that has already been formed. ''

Battening actually comes after each pick. I suggest replacing "with" with "after".

Re-write this how you will. I suggest:

Battening. Between the heddles and the takeup roll, the warp threads pass through another frame called the reed (which resembles a comb). The portion of the fabric that has already been formed but not yet rolled up on the takeup roll is called the fell. After the shuttle moves across the loom laying down the fill yarn, the weaver uses the reed to press (or batten) each filling yarn against the fell.

Jeff.Hull (talk) 23:39, 29 January 2013 (UTC)

Floor looms
The floor loom section focuses on contemporary weaving; it needs to be expanded to include the invention of heddles, then treadles, and then the draw loom and how it works to create figured fabrics. I'm not an expert and I'm having trouble finding a quality source that puts times and places on these inventions. - PKM (talk) 20:48, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

Reassessment
I've reassessed this article to the new C-class, as I don't believe it meets the updated criteria for B-class.

In particular, the section on shuttle looms toward the end of the article and the section on floor looms near the top have redundant information which leads to confusion.

To-do:

 * Restructure into an organization based on historical development or complexity.
 * Balance historical handweaving, mechanized weaving, and modern craft handweaving
 * Standardize the depth of coverage here with "main" articles connecting to various kinds of looms

- PKM (talk) 18:35, 5 July 2008 (UTC)

Simplification
The text I have commented out below, has no place in this article- no references etc, and it is hindering the development of the main article. I looked at creating two stub articles from it but there really is not enough there, so I have left it here until someone can use it. I have been concentrating on Power loom (where you will find some useful references). but now was the time to check that thew the two articles were consistent. --ClemRutter (talk) 10:38, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Sorry if I ruffle any feathers

Merge
Shuttle loom is a one-sentence article. I suggest we merge and redirect it here. - PKM (talk) 02:58, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅:--ClemRutter (talk) 08:26, 22 May 2010 (UTC)
 * ✅. Location (talk) 01:58, 4 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Making it so. - PKM (talk) 22:55, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Removed section
I have removed the section "Tapestry Frame Loom" as it is commercial spam including manufacturer's links. - PKM (talk) 22:55, 10 October 2010 (UTC)

Punched Cards
In Computer Science contexts, it's often noted that looms provided the key innovation of punched cards, which later became a general purpose information storage medium.

I came to this page to figure out just how precisely a punched piece of paper controlled a heavy weaving machine. To my dismay, the article doesn't mention punched cards at all.

If anyone has specialized knowledge of looms and punched cards, please consider adding it to the article. --Thomas B♘ talk 08:56, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

Diagram
There are some good pix on this page, along with a diagram and a film. However, a simplified diagram of the key parts of any loom, showing where the shuttle goes and the key terms closer up, would be good. Thanks.

IceDragon64 (talk) 23:31, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

 * I'll second that. Ten years later and we still could use a good simple diagram. GA-RT-22 (talk) 00:50, 28 July 2022 (UTC)

Automated looms / luddites
This article doesn’t mention the luddites, which I would think were an important factor in the history of looms. I was actually looking for information about the first automated looms, how they worked, what kinds of things they could automate etc. Nothing about that in this article... — Timwi (talk) 11:27, 18 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the feedback
 * You say automated loom- I say power loom, there is a whole section and link Loom which will lead you to the detailed descriptions.
 * Historical consequences of the introductions of the power loom is missing- but we have to be global here and it is debated whether the events of 1811, 1812 and 1813 were just against looms (spinning and stocking knitting frames too) or whether a East Midlands event has global relevance. Yes it must be investigated- it could be reported here but I suspect it is too detailed and off focus for here. Please give more input.--ClemRutter (talk) 13:37, 18 January 2013 (UTC)

Where is the Knifty Knitter?
I have been having fun with something called a Knifty Knitter. To my surprise it is not mentioned in Wikipedia. It is a plastic circle with pegs to wrap yarn around. -- Michael Flower (talk) 23:46, 1 July 2015 (UTC)

 * It is a circle loom, a new example of French Knitting. As it is a commercial product, I suspect that it will never be seen as product placement and zapped. I think you should research Knitting Nancy and see if you could add to that article.  The only way to get material on Wikipedia is to try..... See you around.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by ClemRutter (talk • contribs) 14:43, 2 July 2015 (UTC)

Guess: technological convergence of knitting and looming... lub the outer circular shape of the knitter. luk the bow. knots suggests miniaturization of fish nets, note for musical instruments both wire and later alphabet. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.99.163.104 (talk) 10:47, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

guesswork: most likely predates language
Most likely predates language as the sound. Below the letter in between [l] is not English phonetics. English phonetics is newer like the kanji point of trajectory mentioned below.

[l] sound of snapping branch or log prior L.ANd.ing that predates L.ANc.ing

[oo] sound of branch attached leaves noise long and strong like roar without the power

[m] sound of pair-bonding attraction of hum with a shut mouth or moan with open or masculine [k][uu][m] = change moan humm. or night time damp or other rhythmic murmuring admiration of cumnt.

[s] attribution of pain (ash in) of bone tools sound of self distress or sorrow or loss regeret such as expectation of sore snap through exclamation of power roar enforcing replication or negotiating reply or compliance. unlike searing osteo-ash from the lamb bone.

Ancient technological relations that might include: Most likely origin of sights and sounds mimicking meaning. Signaling sorrow lessening dance avoiding wast void howl.

Possible close cluster of technologies, biased phonetics trajectory like hiragana, katakana, kanji but prior to structured writing and alphabet.

[f/ks/x] [l] = floating/barkpain/willforcing woodsnap: Gathering storage and transportation pre-basket wood logs, gathered lumps insertion and wood woven. Fishing sticks and weapons in general. Nestful floor, wall and ceiling.

[e] [l] = SwearResistingReplyOwnWillActing woodsnap: pre-measurement fitting ell. Non-consent.

[f] [e] [ll] = PerfectFertility OwnWill woodsnapLonger: Fire management.

[v/f/b] [rr] Divorce ending in power purr. That predates [b] [o] [r] Could be the key population copulation technology earlier then gathering and mating gifting. Both expelling into less fertile tundra that's gonna become habitable soon after thanks to long climate cycles and frequent periodic extinction due to short sun spot cycle. And voluntary abandonment in search for fertile warmer climate. But do not ask me how it evolved into old and cold.

Besides fair diva purr management there is probably going to be traveling tribe merger of dominance structures and domesticated animals tracking untill departure and pair-bonding tribe reassignment on departure. Logging belongings earlier alike the knot indexing of quipu by number of spins around the trunk thread till the knot of the spun thread to count the furs and herds. And the logging is late form of the mistress manage ate called ma mama earlier then female gods theocracies. Fishing or weapon stick and foreign fruit sheets predating baskets providing young fresh ferocious fertility a knotted net fishermen Phoenicans. Fruit gathering (ha he rr in = gaze thy power youth). Pay(gaze) in good looking cloth. Medical pre-roman herb collection. Sling (s l in g = pain snap youth go). Wall and roof knitting and logging and walking administering hereditary ownership stick, sling and building lock angling.

As I said it's just guesswork and obviously the concept of phoneme become gradually irrelevant with the feedback loops substitutions and structured language.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.99.163.104 (talk) 19:00, 23 April 2017 (UTC)
 * Can I make a appeal to the informed ip-editor above to register for an account with Wikipedia- so you gain a talk page and a history, and you can keep a watchlist. There are other areas where your knowledge would be valuable but we have no way of getting in touch at the moment.ClemRutter (talk) 08:27, 25 April 2017 (UTC)

Missing loom type
You need a sortout of the weaving types. Firstly, incle weaving techniques should be inserted before the drawloom as they are it's technological precursor - indeed, it might be argued they are the same. Secondly, you're missing the tablet loom, which replaces the draw threads (which will eventually become heddles) with tablets rotated by hand, usually carrying a number of warp threads, which allows double-weaving, although this only really appears once multiple-heddled looms came on the scene. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 176.250.135.238 (talk) 22:57, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Lamm
The lamm is a (simple) mechanism that (somewhat) controls (or steers) the movement of the wire between the treadle and the shaft. It is a slender beam that goes from the side of the loom perpendicularly to the treadle to the point where the wire is to be. One end of the lamm is fixed to the wire, the other to the side of the loom, with a kind of hinge, so that the other end can move up and down with the wire. The lamm and the treadle, together, make the wire go relatively straightly up and down. If there is no lamm, there may be a tendency to pull the shafts somewhat sideways, which may have negtive effects on the weaving. I have this problem on my 200 years old loom that lacks lamms. Wikipedia is miraculously full of valuable information. But information about lamms seems to be lacking. --Ettrig (talk) 07:30, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

Where is handloom stupid guys
Please give more information about handloom If you Say no You r stupid 2401:4900:33AB:E28:1EB3:3330:6D8E:1CA9 (talk) 03:54, 8 October 2022 (UTC)

History
Not a word about the history of the loom? Was hoping to get info on early looms and their development in the ancient world. 2600:2B00:9205:9D00:C066:ECEE:B58:551 (talk) 20:30, 28 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Loom


text: User talk:218.17.81.99

title: User talk:218.17.81.99


text:
User talk:Styrbjorn

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * Try the Tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the test area.
 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Remember Neutral point of view
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck!

[[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]]

P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).

title: User talk:Styrbjorn