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Talk:Saudade

Wrong meanings
Being a native Portuguese speaker, I reckon that "Saudade" heads only toward the past, not the future, and always refers to something/someone that once was or is no longer present, never to something utopical...

I sense Brazillian influences over the article...

One must consider the roots and true meanings of the word, hence an original Portuguese language word shall be explained as such.

Amorim

I, as a native Portuguese citizen, think that the word "saudade" is very tricky to translate. Don't you agree that, sometimes, you have "saudades" for a person that is right in front of you? And which language has a word or expression of loss for a person that is right in front of you? In the article, it says that "Saudade is the love that remains", but I think that saudade is the love that lingers from past to the future. I think also you can never translate the word "saudade", because it is a feeling that is rooted in the deepest place of our soul and has different meanings for each person. Trying to translate a feeling that is the result of a collective experience, of the Portuguese people in this case, will never work. The English never felt the Reconquista, the Romanians never felt the maritime expansion, the Japanese never felt the disappearance of King D. Sebastiao in the Alcacer Quibir battle, and the loss of independence, and so on. So, we can only try to translate with the words that each language has, trying tho give the feeling that the word gives to us.

Francisco Xavier B Fernandes guerreiro_da_luz@sapo.pt —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.152.148.160 (talk) 17:40, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

Tenho saudades tuas
This can definitely be expanded into a Wikipedia article. Saudade has a rather intricate while at the same time vague description that goes beyond mere dictionary definitions, not to mention it's a crucial component of Portuguese culture (its most notable expression perhaps found in fado music). Also worth noting is the ambivalence of some Portuguese people towards the concept, in part due to its perceived pessimism and its association with a certain post-imperialist, post-colonialist sense of longing. I'll attend to this in the future, once I look into facts and specifics. --Goblin 08:48, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC).

Brief note: On the contrary of what s said before, "Saudade" in "Tenho saudades tuas" meaning "I miss you", meaning missing a person is not only used in Brazilian Portuguese but also (very frequently) in standard Portuguese in the same way, exactly with the same sense.

 * True, but the feeling of "saudade" means much, much more than just "I miss you". At least it does in Portugal.  See this.  Also, please sign your posts, or it'll become hard to keep track of who says what.  --Goblin 23:00, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)

AÑORANZA
SAUDADE in Portuguese is AÑORANZA in Spanish. So this word is not that untranslatable at all!

 * No it is not. I am fluent in Spanish and añoranza is not the same as Saudade. This is rubbish --Pinnecco 13:30, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree, añoranza is the Spanish translation, and the Real Academia Española confirms it. I've applied the changes, with the reference. --Langus (t) 22:58, 9 January 2013 (UTC)

Original Research, Lack of Citations, and Maybe a Bit of Silliness
"Another permanent source of saudades for the Brazilians is the hugeness of the country itself, which in the past caused most people to feel alone almost everywhere." This is really so unencyclopedic that I'm surprised it's lasted very long here. "Most people" had a feeling of being along "almost everywhere"? Please. And the idea that the mere size of a country immediately and constantly affects how people think is also very unlikely. People feel crowded or abandoned or isolated not because of a nation's borders but because of the relative proximity of people near them. People in Sao Paulo do not, because of the greater size of the country, feel appreciably less crowded than those, say, in Guatemala City. Interlingua 05:51, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Romanian
The word "Saudade" in Portuguese has the same meaning as the word "dor" in Romanian

Romanian: mi-e dor de tine Portuguese: Eu tenho saudades de ti

Romanian: dor de casă Portuguese: Saudades de casa -- M.Lira (I'm still learning the rules, heh)

vfd discussion
This article was proposed for deletion January 2005. The discussion is archived at Votes for deletion/Saudade. Joyous 02:03, Jan 30, 2005 (UTC)

Untranslatable?!?
"Untranslatable" what? Haven't you ever heard the English word "nostalgia"? The definition of nostalgia is homesickness, or a sense of longing for something past. The word nostalgia is also present in Portuguese and means the same. Saudade, however similar in concept, is not as limited as nostalgia --- for instance, saudade can be used to describe desire or despair for non-existent things. (By the way, saudade is not "untranslatable", merely difficult to translate.) --Goblin ›talk 04:44, Mar 12, 2005 (UTC)

 * We also have nostalgia in Portuguese, and it doesn't mean the same as "Saudade" (as Goblin said) Ahh.. and by the way, is not an "english word" as it comes from (new) latin (ehmm... Greek/Latin). ;) --Pinnecco 13:26, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * "The word nostalgia is also present in Portuguese and means the same." No, it doesn't. Sorry for that, but it simply doesn't. Homesickness can't be translated as nostalgia in Portuguese. (Anonymous)
 * What about the german word Sehnsucht (German for wishfulness or longing)? This is the only word I ever heard that is close to Saudade. --Pinnecco 13:32, 22 December 2005 (UTC)
 * As for as I know, being a native Portuguese speaker and talking to native Polish speakers, the Polish word "tęsknota" means exactly the same thing. 201.14.165.52 14:06, 2 February 2007 (UTC)Radek
 * "Melancolia, abatimento profundo de tristeza, causado pelas saudades do lar ou da pátria." (in english: sadness for being far from the homeland) Direct from portuguese dictionary. Homesickness CAN be translated as nostalgia in Portuguese. - Gustavo Fernandes

Yes this seems like one of those urban myths, or legends that apparently people get carried over that "suadade" is somehow unique. I'm fluent in the language and "saudade" means the exact same as "missing" or "longing" (like in "I miss the good ol' days"), as "extrañar" or "añorar" in the vast majority of contexts it's a 1 to 1 translation. Sure it may not have the exact semantic domain as those words, but there is no article explaining how exceptional the word "longing" is because aside from being able to be used to say "you long for something" it also can be used to talk about the size of an object. And for good reason there is no article about that, because it's just dumb in my opinion.

Removed Move to Wikitionary tag
This article was marked "Move to Wikitonary" which is not appropriate because the article had been marked as such, was nominated to VFD and then survived. Personally I think it should be transwikied, but I think that all articles about words, their translation, and entymology should be in wiktionary no wikipedia. However, I am but one lone voice. Kevin Rector 15:04, Mar 15, 2005 (UTC)

Hmmm... Nostalgia is not a very satisfying english translation for "saudade". It isn't even used in the same way, maybe not even in the same context. For instance, one does not say "i have nostalgia" for this or that, like one would say "tenho saudade" for this or that. It also does not have the same heartsick connotation attached to it. Nostalgia can even be used in a positive sense, for instance "she smiled a nostalgic smile, reflecting on the past"... but saudade is almost exclusively used to express the negative aspect of this feeling. Longing for things long gone. It is closer to a melancholic longing than it is to nostalgia. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.53.137.84 (talk) 17:05, 9 November 2011 (UTC)

Longing for something which is still here
"feeling of longing for something you are fond of, which is gone, but can eventually return in a distant future". This is not entirely consistent with what several Brazilians have explained to me. They said it could also represent longing for something still present, but that you know will (or might?) be gone. For example a friend said she felt saudade for me because I was leaving in a few days. She didn't say that she would feel it, but she felt it already. Well, I will leave it to the experts. Portuguese is hard enough, even without "untranslatable" words. --Jens Schriver 17:22, 17 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I would say this is an extension of the word's usage but certainly not its meaning. It is like saying that you are hungry just from thinking that you'll have to go without eating for a day. Rauh 21:58, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm fluent in PT-BR and I can assure you that the current way the explanation is worded is fairly accurate. What your friend probably meant is that she was feeling saudade by anticipation; that she knew she would miss you once you were gone, and was already experiencing the feeling. --Sn0wflake 02:37, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

As a native speaker yes, you can refer to "saudade" in antecipation, indeed you can say that you are already feeling "saudade" for someone that is still present but about to leave and you know will be missed, but this usually means that there is an awareness that the feeling will come once the loved one has left, not literaly that you are already feeling it. ines

 * I am Brazilian and can assure you that Sn0wflake' theory is correct. BTW, very few people in Brazil think of "saudade" as an untranslatable word, this was something literary critics sort of invented in the XIX century. As a translator myself I can assure that very few words, except most concrete nouns, like "dog" or "brick", can be translated with exactly the same meaning so the point of saudade's untranslatability is moot, though it is relevant as central tenet of Portuguese and Brazilian "state of mind". jggouvea 21:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Sn0wflake's words are pretty correct (saudade by anticipation, like any other feeling by anticipation). But unfortunately there is indeed a huge amount of people who still consider themselves "proud" of having "saudade" as an alleged untranslatable word, an "authentic sign of Portuguese beautiness" as they like to think of it. That same "proud" people simply can't even use the rest of the language correctly, though. (Anonymous)

I'm guessing, but I wonder if this could be translated as a "feeling of separation" from someone/something? Also see: http://linguistics.ucdavis.edu/FacultyPages/pfarrell/Saudade.pdf

 * Saudade is not merely a "feeling of separation", but the feeling that the past was better and is now impossible to recover (or at the very least, difficult). Like the ancient greeks longing for a "Golden Age" or the muslims referring to the time of Muhammad as the 'plenitude of times'. The concept was later expanded to include "everything and the kitchen sink" related to longing, separation, etc. Nostalgia is a [narrower] type of "saudade". jggouvea 21:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps in Portugal it is different (in Galicia the word is used sparingly), but in Brazil the word is used so much that it is practically meaningless. I've heard people say they have "saudades" of a sandwich they haven't had in a long time. At this point in the Portuguese language, it just means to miss something. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.161.133.238 (talk) 16:48, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

hipotesis: saudade derive de säwdâ
El origen de la palabra saudade tenemos que buscar en la palabra arabe säwdâ. En los diccionarios etimologicos de las lenguas romances de peninsula Iberica relacionan esta palabra con palabra soledad. Pienso que esto no es correcto. Po no hablar mucho les mando un trocito de texto sobre el säwdâ (sevdah) que he encontrado en el internet. El significado de säwdâ (sevdah) es casi igual que de saudade.

''Aqui esta http://www.mostarsevdahreunion.com/Color/aboutsevdah.htm

To millions of people in the world, Bosnia and Herzegovina is known only for horrible news on violence, ethnical cleansing and war. The recent war has completely overshadowed the very rich and unique cultural tradition of Bosnia and Herzegovina. In the cultural heritage of this country, a special place belongs to the traditional Bosnian music form "sevdah". Although it is reliably known that the sevdah originated after the Turks came to medieval Bosnia, nobody has been able to determine exactly when this was. The word sevdah itself is open to several interpretations. The most accurate explanation is that is an Arabic word "säwdâ", which means love, desire or ecstasy. In an attempt to establish the meaning of the word sevdah, people went back to the old age when the Arabic word "sevdah (säwdâ)" was used by physicians to describe black gall, a substance which circulates through human organism that control feelings and emotions.

Otro http://www.zimba.nl/sevdah/english.php

“The meaning of the word sevdah in the Turkish language denotes amorous yearning and ecstasy of love, and has its origin in the Arabic expression “säwdâ”, which encompasses and specifies the term “black gall”. Namely, ancient Arabic and Greek doctors believed that the black gall, as one of the four basic substances in the human body, affects our emotional life and provokes a melancholic and irritable mood. There from derives the expression in the Greek language “melancholy” with a figurative meaning of the direct projection of its basic meaning: melan hôlos – black gall. Since it is love itself that causes the same mood, in the Turkish language these terms were brought into a close link with the semantic identity, accomplishing a conceptual result of a dual projection of the basic meaning. Linking these two meanings has opened the process of a poetic transfer of symbolic and emotional qualities from one term to another. This resulted in the birth of a new term related to specific lyrical and psychological features. In our society, the feeling of love expressed by the word “sevdah”, retaining the basic tone of its emotional commitment has got a melancholic notion of the Slavic-Bogomilian transience of space and time. In essence, our sevdah is both, the passionate and painful longing for love, as well as the melancholic and sweet one, the feeling when you are incapable of enduring the pain caused by love, and the pain transforms into the ecstasy of the intoxication of love that compares to the slow process of dying.

borut@fe.uni-lj.si

 * http://www.priberam.pt/dlpo/definir_resultados.aspx?pal=saudade
 * I'm 75% sure that is of erudite origin, that is, it is a word created by poets derived directly from Classic Latin, rather than of popular evolution. I don't know for sure, but I remember something like that (the mind plays tricks), but it is Latin for sure; Arabic influence in Portuguese is half that of Spanish, and Arabic words are always related to places(in the south), agriculture, other clafts and some other things. The Spanish soledad is not the same as Portuguese saudade.

BTW I found this: ''Em 30 de janeiro celebra-se o "Dia da Saudade". Na gramática Saudade é substantivo abstrato, tão abstrato que só existe na língua portuguesa. Os outros idiomas têm dificuldade em traduzi-la ou atribuir-lhe um significado preciso: Te extraño (castelhano),  J'ai regret (francês) e  Ich vermisse dish (alemão). No idioma inglês encontramos várias tentativas: homesickness  (equivalente a saudade de casa ou do país),  longing e  to miss (sentir falta de uma pessoa), e  nostalgia (nostalgia do passado, da infância). Mas todas essas expressões estrangeiras não definem o que sentimos. São apenas tentativas de determinar esse sentimento que nós mesmos não sabemos exatamente o que é. Não é só um obstáculo ou uma incompatibilidade da linguagem, mas é principalmente uma característica cultural daqueles que falam a língua portuguesa.'' in here: http://www.spectrumgothic.com.br/gothic/saudade.htm -Pedro 18:48, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

Third paragraph
>> "I feel so much "saudade" of you".

Are you kidding me?

Also, as a native speaker of Portuguese and a near-native speaker of English it is my opinion that the whole "untranslatable" deal is a myth. There are words in virtually every language to say it, like "longing" in English or better yet "Sehnsucht" in German.

Kripkenstein τ κ

 * i agree...i think "yearning for" also works. Streamless 19:17, 2 March 2006 (UTC)
 * As per my comments above, I also raised the questions about "sehnsucht" and "longing". However, "longing" is not as abstract as saudade. Yearning could be (coult it?) but it is a verb, not a substantinve. But Sensucht (german), might be as good as saudade. But my german is not good enough to comment on that. --Pinnecco 12:59, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I just want to make a quick comment on the German word (I am German). "Sehnsucht" is a noun combined of "sehnen", which means "to long (for)", and "Sucht", which means "addiction". So "Sehnsucht" is a strong desire or longing for someone or something with a little touch of being almost unhealthy or extreme (addictions usually are). Hope this helps! --Gunnar 21:41, 15 September 2006 (CEST)
 * "yearn" is the verb root of yearning. as an aside, english words that end in -ing are called gerunds or participles. Streamless 19:53, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I is not a myth, it was considered as one of the hardest to translate. (note: it is not impossible to translate) Saudade is a type of longing. --Pedro 20:35, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

Saudade is not so much untranslatable as complex in meaning; it is a combination of longing, melancholy and nostalgia; it is something that frankly has to be perceived or felt rather than described. See for example the poetry of the Galician writer Rosalia de Castro.

"I feel so much "saudade" of you" has been changed to "I feel 'saudade' for you". Now who wants to create the Portuglish article? – Morganfitzp 05:20, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Hebrew
I was told Hebrew has a word that can almost be translated to Portuguese as "saudade".
 * Every language has a few "almosts" for saudade. In English, words like "longing" and "nostalgia" come close sometimes, but not always, and never really hit the sentiment in the heart. Morganfitzp 22:09, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

What is banzo ?
I am a native speaker of Brazilian Portuguese (from São Paulo) and I must confess I've never heard the word "banzo" ! Saying that "Brazil has two words for this specific emotion of longing and missing" is quite a stretch IMHO. Mbruno 15:05, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

The word is now archaic but was current until the early half of the XX century and appeared often in books about slavery, like Coelho Neto's Banzo. The word, however, has been mostly forgotten because of its meaning being too specific. jggouvea 21:56, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I beg to differ as for it not being so specific or archaic. It's still in fair use, just not by the younger generations who don't know the meaning, but often come to know it. "Saudade", "nostalgia" and "banzo" are very much co-related in this way:

 * "nostalgia" = saudade of when (related to time), like you'd use in "Good times!..." or "Remember when we used to...?"

 * "banzo" = saudade of place (mostly, mother land, but also a place you've visited long ago), like in "I'd like to be home now..." or "I miss Greece". The pronunciation of "banzo" in English would be pretty close to "bunzo".

 * They are all related to something that is distant, and "saudade" is more generally used for people ("I'm at war, I miss my wife and kids"), or your pet or even more mundane stuff ("I miss my old car, the one they took away").

 * Actually, because of the mentioning of "nostalgia" in the text, I believe "banzo" should be perfectly included too, so "nostalgia" wouldn't come out as being the only variation of "saudade", a time-related one. There is also this other word, space-related.

Comments
I just can tell that I like this word "saudade" becouse has much explanations and is so weird. I'm from Croatia and I don't realy know what it mean, but I hope one day I'll know. Salutation. vale v:);(

That article kind of makes me proud of being a Portuguese speaker... Every time I say saudade I should think about all those people who will never be able to say it. 201.21.126.147 00:27, 29 June 2006 (UTC)

Portuguese "Saudade" and Romanian "Dor"
I'd just like to draw the attention to possible editors of this page that what the Portuguese or students of Portuguese language and culture claim about the word "saudade" is actually correspondent to the word "dor" in Romanian, a very close Romance language. Although "dor" in PT is equivalent to "pain" the same does not happen in Romanian which as a similar word for it "doare". Sorry not be of more help on it. Just thought you'd like to know.

I would suggest that saudade comes from Arabic sawda with the same meaning. In the Balkans, word sevdah means the same. Like in Portugal, it is expressed through a particular music genre, also called sevdah. For me personally, it is interesting that both in Portugal and in Bosnia, people generally believe that these kinds of longing cannot be translated and thus represent the unique features of their respective cultures.

 * --In addition to what was written here i would also like to point out that when it is said that the word " saudade" is "untraslatable" they refer more to it as the feeling, state of mind and not as the word itself, it's the same with the Romanian "dor", these two words mean exactly the same thing; and in Romania also, it is believed that is an untraslatable word, the fact is that the word can be translated into another language what is more difficult to explain is the emotional state that the person experiences, as the word involves a complexity of emotions.
 * And so that we can be more clear, regarding to the above comment, the word "dor" can be related to "pain" although it has a closer meaning to " hurt", but when refered to " dor" as a noun, it has the exact same meaning with " saudade" ; "doare" is a verb, comes from "a durea"= "to hurt"(and it is refered to feeling and NOT causing the pain- "ma doare piciorul"="my foot hurts"; "ma dor picioarele"="my feet hurt")--anelis(romania)--

Saudade and Sevdah
I would suggest that saudade comes from Arabic sawda with the same meaning. In the Balkans, word sevdah means the same. Like in Portugal, it is expressed through a particular music genre, also called sevdah. For me personally, it is interesting that both in Portugal and in Bosnia, people generally believe that these kinds of longing cannot be translated and thus represent the unique features of their respective cultures.

 * That's curious, but it's generally agreed that saudade derives from Latin solitatem, like the (not synonymous) Spanish word soledad. FilipeS 12:21, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I have no doubt...that both sevdah and saudade are derived from the same word...Sawda!

From Sevdah...the Bosnian Fado-type, urban love-folk musical genre... I'll cite a line of a famous song..."Od Sevdaha...umire mi dusa za tobom"....which translates exactly as: "Por causa da saudade...a minha alma morre por voce"! Try translating either sevdah...or saudade into English....and you'll get easily stuck...and a wordy translation....and here is a perfect example where the meaning of the two words...is simply...exactly... identical. I grew up in Bosnia...and from a young age...lived a long time in Brazil...and only recently (after reading countless Brazilian commentaries about the uniqueness of "saudade" and its obscure etymology) it donned on me....that Sevdah=Saudade...and that the Bosnian version of Fado...is also called Sevdah....and really...the two musical traditions are so similar...although their places of origin are so geographically removed.

And...we also sing Sevdah...when "estamos com saudade...de alguem...alguma coisa...algum lugar...para matar a tristeza...aliviar a dor"...etc. This word is rarely used in everyday vernacular...for our language has been "cleansed" of a lot of words of Arabic-Turkish-Persian origin...yet it remains...very present...in this musical genre...and the word appears quite often in many of the lyrics...so we know exactly what it means..and how to use it...yet to us...it feels like a linguistic (and social) anachronism...harking back to remote period in history!

Yes...I spent the most painful moments of the war in Bosnia...crying alone and singing Sevdah....in the shower. Just like Fado...it can help heal the soul! Whenever we party...and someone makes a request "Daj nesto za dusu"...(Give us something for the soul)...that is understood as a request for a Sevdah song!Gospe 20:26, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

please do not delete talk page comments
could someone who understands wikipedia better than i do please undo the deletion? thanks. Streamless 14:35, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Done. Did I get verything? Morganfitzp 14:44, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

Examples

 * The loved ones who are dead (whom you'll meet again in Heaven, of course)

It seems to me that this needs some kind of explicit caveat or contextualization. Since I don't have a native sense of saudade nor does "whom you'll meet again in Heaven" have a positive truth value for me, I don't know how to fix it, other than to delete it. I hope someone can fix it so it it represents NPOV at a very basic, literal level. Nohat 05:52, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

 * I gave it a crack. There are many POVs running amok throughout this article (though most are quite friendly and do not bite). Morganfitzp 06:22, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Next Stop Wonderland
Saudade is one of the central themes in the 1998 indie romantic comedy Next Stop Wonderland.

The main character, a nurse played by Hope Davis, is treating a Brazilian patient. As the scene evolves, he says to her:

 * "You like my country's music, right? I can tell there is a little bit of Brazil in you."

 * "Oh yeah?"

 * "See, you are sad and happy. You don't smile but you are content. You are sad and happy at the same time. In Brazil we have a term for that - it's 'Saudade'. It's like ... melancholic, nostalgic; it's very Bossanova."

Thought you might find this of interest. (It's on-topic and off-topic at the same time :-) ). Plus the film's enjoyable in a low-key way. Dugo 02:27, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Translation in Italian
The 'Translation in Italian' section ( "Saudade can be translated with malinconia romantica...") makes absolutely no sense to me. If this were true saudade could be translated in many languages with things similar to 'romantic melancholy'. And then there would be no reason why Italian would have a special section. Yet the article seems to assume that saudade is not mere romantic melancholy, so the italian translation is inaccurate too. If you agree, please remove the section. Junuxx 14:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Troubles
I don't know of any non-original research, but this article seems to focus very narrowly on the concept. In Brazil, at the very least, Saudade can have positive connotations. It sort of suggests that you have a place in the world, and you're only away from it temporarily, or something.

Does anyone know of any research that can back this up? Because I'm absolutely sure this is true, and this article puts the word in a light I always considered overly poetic. "To Morrendo de Saudades" isn't always, to me, suggesting a person you'll never see again. Kyle543 10:42, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Guys, having just translated an article and feeling like some words are untranslatable I can understand the dificulty in finding a one-to-one relationiship between words of diferent languages. Who would think of translating "Mesa" (table or desk) as "court of law"? The fact is that in context it does happen. Some portuguese words condense several english meanings and some english words do exactly the same to portuguese meanings. Aren't we embarking here on a Estado Novo-style  "portugal is the center of the world" line of thought and editing? For another "untranslatable" word try "emprestar", which means both "borrowing" and "lending". Now how can that be possible? Maybe it's just the case of another word that condenses 2 english meanings. And no, I'm not trolling, just trying to keep a NPOV Galf 21:51, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Kyle543, saudade can have positive connotations, not only in Brazil but in Portugal and any country where Portuguese is spoken.

This word is as "untranslatable" as many others. Nothing special about it. It may be difficult to translate (to some languages), but of course it is not untranslatable. After all, it's a feeling that, naturally, is not unique to the people that speak Portuguese.--Francisco 14:44, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

yeah, I'm a brasilian and I do agree that "saudade" is often used with more positive meanings than what the article seems to focus on, perhaps this alternate (and I guess more popular) meaning for it here in Brasil is mroe or less what the article described, but instead of saying it is feeling about things that probably won't come back, say it is a feeling about things one cherish that one would like to be around more. Not sure how I coudl elaborate more to add better arguments for my point of view...--TiagoTiago 05:15, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

It can indeed have positive conotation. Just like "I miss dancing" translates to "Tenho saudades de dançar" without a negative meaning.

Saudade is not hard to translate: all that happens is that it has a different idiomatic use in portuguese. It is just like translating the verb "gustar" from Spanish. "Me gustan las hamburguesas" translates to "I like hamburguers", but structure is rather like "Hamburguers appeal to me". Different idiomatic use, easy translation.

If anyone's dealt with translations before, they'll know there are far harder words to translate, such as the english word "approach".

200.158.99.233 03:31, 18 October 2007 (UTC)

Reason for the existence of this article
Hardly any word in any language has exact translations; every word has its subtleties. OK, saudade may have more subtleties than the average Portuguese word... so what? (And, anyway, it's fairly accurate to say that ter/sentir saudade(s) translates as to miss -- Tenho saudades de ti/você. = I miss you.; Sinto saudade daqueles tempos. = I miss those times.) I just can't understand why people keep talking about it as a superspecial word. I love talking about my mother tongue (Portuguese), but it bugs me when people mention this claimed exclusivity of saudade with pride. What exactly makes this word so special that makes it deserve a place in an English-language encyclopedia? (Actually, I don't think this article should be deleted. Instead, I think the hype over the word should be the main subject of it.) Eumedemito 04:26, 1 November 2007 (UTC)

Removing of Original Research and Unreferenced article
I tagged the article as Original Research and Unreferenced. These takes were removed by an editor without fixing the problem Many editors do not know that WP:V is policy and that any unsourced material can be removed by any editor at any time.

Also, it against the guidelines to remove tags without fixing the problem. Editors should remember that wikipedia is an encyclopedia and has a duty to warn general readers of possible inaccuracies and Original Research. It is very important to be responsible regarding this. It is wikipedia's article and wikipedia's credibility rests on being honest about article quality.

Especially the OR and at least some general notice that the article is largely unreferenced and unverified is in order. If the editors of this article do not replace at least some of the tags then I will have to. Please be responsible wikipedia editors. Regards,  Mattisse  (Talk) 12:38, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I notice that there are POV concerns as well. Mattisse  (Talk) 12:39, 5 April 2008 (UTC)
 * I agrre this articles has multiple cleanup issues and I have resotred the cleanup templates. Please do not remove them unless the specific cleanup issues are addressed.--Gavin Collins (talk) 15:57, 5 April 2008 (UTC)

I am so glad to have at last read an individual's complete thread before sanitation by "jobsworth" editors completely "dullifies" it! I know, POV and unsourced blah blab, but all that depresses me! Pinch of salt all that is needed and anyway, you can't totally trust this encyclopaedia anyway! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.175.180.89 (talk) 13:59, 1 June 2010 (UTC)

I don't get it
We are told in the article that «"saudade" is untranslatable in any other language» and later that «Saudade is said to be the only exact equivalent of the Welsh hiraeth and the Cornish hireth», not to mention that it technically _is_ translatable to Esperanto (and by extention I'd guess in Ido too). 85.138.186.123 (talk) 22:31, 4 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Esperanto does have an exact word relative to Saudade (I was told is "Saudado"), because it explicitly borrowed the word from Portuguese. That is the benefit from being a constructed language =) --Pinnecco (talk) 23:01, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

This is why this article is problematic:
In reference to the Finnish idea of kaiho: I would like to quote from the article:

"Ironically, the sentiment of kaiho is central to the Finnish tango, in stark contrast to the Argentine tango, which is predominantly sensuous."

I do not argue with the first part of this sentence; as someone who knows little about Finnish culture, I cannot speak to it one way or the other, but I am prepared to believe that it is true.

However, the half of this sentence after the comma, could only be written by someone who is not familiar with the richness of the 120+ year tradition of Argentine tango, which is varied and includes strains from Africa, Europe, the Americas, Russia, and beyond. It is, frankly, a ridiculous simplification to describe it as "predominantly sensuous", because it raises the question - which tango? which tango are you referring to, the turn of the century tangos, the tangos of Canaro in Paris, the blossoming in the 40's, the modern tangos, the jazz of Piazolla - where? To where, exactly, does this gross simplication apply?

And THAT is exactly my point. An exercise in cultural comparisons like this always risks degenerating into precisely this dialogue:

"MY culture - with which I am intimately familiar - has a richness and a profound complexity that SIMPLY CANNOT be translated into another culture. For example, culture X, with its simplistic idea of "a", or culture Y, with its entirely trivial ideas about "b" - they simply do not encompass all that is wonderful, special, and marvellous about MY culture".

So why should we believe you? On whose authority do you speak? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mateomateo71 (talk • contribs) 23:12, 16 November 2010 (UTC)

Relation to other words
Nostalia exists in the English dictionary (see: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/nostalgia), and ALSO in the Portuguese dictionary. So it isn't fair to say that Saudade is like the Italian word Nostalgia. Melancolia is, simply put, melancholy (see: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/melancholy). --Pinnecco (talk) 13:20, 13 December 2010 (UTC)

Sevdah
In Etymology chapter I have added the short explanation of the word "sevdah" which has the same meaning in languages of former Yugoslavia as saudade has in Portugese. It is known that music of Iberian Sephards influenced sevdah a lot but that word existed before the Big migration of Jews from Spain in 16th century. Due to Ottoman rule in Balkans from 14th and 15th century Arabic root of this word is very certain.

RacoYes (talk) 22:33, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Indeed
Don't worry, I'm Romanian, we also have a words at least as emcompassing as Saudade, if not  more, Dor, and they refuse to acknowledge it. This is what Western nationalist scholars are used to to. to completely and blatantly disregard anything outside the West. They simply don't acknowledge our region. They find it somehow inferior. It is sad that Sevdah and Dor are supposedly less in a Portuguese's eyes, just because the words aren't portuguese. 89.136.167.81 (talk) 13:36, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Romanian Dor versus Portuguese Saudade
I would like, for the third time in this talk page, to bring up the fact that Dor is not under any circumstances encompassing less that the word Saudade, as it is wrongly claimed in the article, with no references. O have added a cite reference tag to the claim, if no one will cite at least one scholarly article which claims this, I will personally delete it.

It seems that nationalism has crept into this page, unfortunately, and the Portuguese author had merely superficially flagged the Romanian "dor" as meaning pain.

It is not true. I am Romanian, I can certify, along with my fellow country men above, that Dor is one the trickiest and untranslatable words in Romania. There have been books written on this subject since Lucian Blaga until today (Suffice to say that "gossamer pain" has no meaning in english, yet it is what the Portuguese author would have us translate Dor Mărunt, a Romanian village, right? That is an absurd translation).

Dor encompasses feelings such as wanderlust, pain, longings, a distinct combination of both positive and negative, intertwined longings about the future, the present and the past, missing someone, something, wishing for a utopian future, etc; it is at least as complex if not more encompassing than even the German sehnsucht.

Wanderlust, woe, ardent desire, nostalgia, missing someone, homesickness, grief, heart's desire, aspiration, utopian desire for the future, these all mean dor: just go here http://en.bab.la/dictionary/romanian-english/dor-n%C4%83zuin%C5%A3%C4%83 so you know I'm not making it up. I'm researching articles as we speak. 89.136.167.81 (talk) 13:37, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Deletion
I have deleted the wondrously, tragically wrong phrases from the article. The Romanian Dor is obviously more encompassing than Saudade, as any Romance language scholar can attest. 89.136.167.81 (talk) 13:43, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

Etymology and translation
The entry seems to include a series of attributions of a possible etymological origin, sometimes solely on the basis of homophony, which are speculative at best, and with few grounds on sound modern philology. This occurs to a degree which is surprisingly uncanny, considering that the entry itself appears to have been authored by more than one native speaker.

The Portuguese word ‘saudade’ is of the same family as ‘saúde’, ‘saudar’, ‘saudação’, deriving from the Latin ‘salus’, ‘salutare’. Kinship with other languages should have been established on that basis, as more remote connections would only be found in the Indo-European stem of ‘salus’ at any rate.

At that level of remoteness, there would no longer be a semantic connection to the term ‘saudade’ as such, but only with its Latin root ‘salus’, the meaning of the former being significantly at variance with that of the latter.

The term is both presented as untranslatable and synonymous to a number of terms in different languages, with which, in most cases, it evidently cannot bear etymological connection. In fact, the discussion on whether the term is translatable or not, would just as easily apply to countless terms in most languages, where the semantic field of this or that term is naturally at variance with that of the term in question.

A similar argument could be made with regard to finding a synonymous in the Portuguese language itself, or any other language, since ‘perfect’ synonymi can never be found. The emphasis on untranslatability seems therefore to indicate a proported exclusiveness, not only of the term, but also and especially the concept, failing to establish a neutral point of view.

Given the variety of possible translations in different languages, the entry should then have included especially the German term ‘Sehnsucht’, with which ‘saudade’ is not only synonymous, but also shares the same syntactical elements. Where ‘Sehnsucht’ calls for the preposition ‘nach’, ‘saudade’ calls for the preposition ‘de’. E.g. ‘I habe Sehnsucht nach…’, and ‘eu tenho saudades de…’ – this in the absence of any shared etymological ground. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.170.99.72 (talk) 23:40, 15 July 2012 (UTC)

It is very frustrating that the article - and especially the origins section - makes no mention of etymology. Could someone familiar with reliable sources on Portugese etymology put in an appropriately cited reference? If there's an academic controversy over Latin vs. Arabic origins (as seems likely considering the era it originated in and the existence of sawda which is just the Arabic translation of melancholia) then there should be a discussion of that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.170.52.174 (talk) 11:16, 4 October 2012 (UTC)

Link to Hebrew Wikipedia
I believe the link to the Hebrew page should be removed as it does not involve the portuguese word "saudade" as do the links to pages in other languages. It involves a rough translation of the word and furthermore is a tiny stub of an article.

31.51.149.58 (talk) 11:02, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

PS I have raised this issue on the Hebrew page aswell.

31.51.149.58 (talk) 11:02, 11 November 2012 (UTC)

Sawda (Arabic origin)
I'd like to add here shortly that there is the word 'Sauda' in Urdu, too. In Urdu the word derives from the Arabic language. It has the same meaning like the Portuguese 'Saudade' or the word 'Sevdah' from the Balkan. So it seems quite likely that the Arabic 'Sawda' is in fact the common origin of all three words. — Preceding unsigned comment added by C Nocon (talk • contribs) 19:10, 20 January 2013 (UTC)

Saudade is happiness too
Someone wrote "it is a combination of longing, melancholy and nostalgia". Yes, but it's also a feeling of happiness. There's no saudade without a mixture of sadness and happiness, that's the reason it's such a complicated feeling. --Good Hope Phanta (talk) 11:49, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

 * True. The song Mil Pedaços (a Thousand Pieces) by Legião Urbana, Renato Russo sings [...] guardo um retrato teu, e a saudade mais bonita [...] (I kept a portrait of you, and the most beautiful saudade). There is a melancholic fondness in the lyrics. Good example on the complexity of the feeling. --Pinnecco (talk) 15:30, 14 November 2019 (UTC)

So...
"It describes a deep emotional state of nostalgic or deeply melancholic longing for an absent something or someone that one loves. Moreover, it often carries a repressed knowledge that the object of longing will never return."

It's just nostalgia then? 124.148.123.9 (talk) 15:31, 23 August 2013 (UTC) Harlequin
 * Is similar, but brings more sadness. Erick Soares3 (talk) 23:21, 10 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Eunoia: "Saudade: melancholic longing, nostalgia, dreaming wistfulness." Erick Soares3 (talk) 13:33, 11 February 2020 (UTC)

File:Almeida Júnior - Saudade (Longing) - Google Art Project.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Almeida Júnior - Saudade (Longing) - Google Art Project.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on February 14, 2017. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2017-02-14. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:50, 9 February 2017 (UTC)

Portuguese-speaking people left in search of better futures in South America, North America, and Western Europe
Are you joking? Look at a map, Portugal couldn't be more Western Europe. If you mean Brazilians, then South America doesn't make sense. You can have both in the same sentence. --2001:16B8:3124:F900:9C65:7150:F98C:422F (talk) 16:24, 2 May 2020 (UTC)

Galicia and Galacian Language
I don't feel qualified to edit this article, but I can't help but be frustrated by the paragraph about Galicia. It fails to mention the Galacian language, which is more closely related to Portuguese than Spanish. Surely that's worth mentioning in an article about a Portuguese word? Isaac Rabinovitch (talk) 15:15, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

Analogous Term for the Unrequited Experience
Is there an analogous term for this sentiment in relation to something unrequited? That is, never experienced, and nor ever will be? An absent parent, for example. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.151.210.84 (talk) 16:16, 3 June 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Saudade


text:
45th New Zealand Parliament

The 45th New Zealand Parliament was a term of the Parliament of New Zealand. Its composition was determined by the 1996 election, and it sat until the 1999 election.

The 45th Parliament was notable in that it was the first to be elected under the new MMP electoral system, a form of proportional representation. It was also notable for the fact that it was the first New Zealand Parliament to have an Asian person, Pansy Wong, elected to it. The difference between the 45th Parliament and its predecessor were considerable — the 44th Parliament had opened with only four seats being held by minor parties, but at the opening of the 45th Parliament, minor parties held thirty-nine seats. Because of the considerably altered balance of power in Parliament, neither of the two major parties could govern alone, and New Zealand First, the largest of the four other parties in Parliament, was put in the position of "kingmaker". In the end, New Zealand First opted for a coalition with the National Party which had governed in the previous Parliament, marking the first coalition government in New Zealand for over half a century. The Labour Party continued in Opposition.

The 45th Parliament consisted of one hundred and twenty representatives. Sixty-five of these representatives were chosen by geographical electorates, including five special Maori electorates. The remainder were elected by means of party-list proportional representation under the MMP electoral system.

Overview of seats
The table below shows the number of MPs in each party following the 1996 election and at dissolution:

Notes
 * New Zealand First initially entered into a coalition with the National Party, which broke down in 1998. Half the party resigned and became independents, while the other half remained with the party and joined the opposition.
 * A collection of small parties were founded and received representation by independent MPs who were formerly with New Zealand First and Alliance. They supported the National Party in government.
 * ACT and United Future extended support to the National Party, giving the government a slim majority in parliament.
 * The Green Party sat in Parliament under the banner of the Alliance Party.
 * The Working Government majority is calculated as all Government MPs less all other parties.

Initial composition of the 45th Parliament
45th New Zealand Parliament - MPs elected to Parliament

List MPs are ordered by allocation as determined by the Chief Electoral Office and the party lists.

By-elections during 45th Parliament
There was one by-election held during the term of the 45th Parliament.

Summary of changes during term

 * Jim Gerard, a National Party list MP, resigned from Parliament in April 1997 to take up a post as High Commissioner in Ottawa. He was replaced by Annabel Young, the next candidate on National's list.
 * Alamein Kopu, an Alliance list MP, resigned from her party in July 1997. She eventually formed her own party, Mana Wahine Te Ira Tangata.
 * Jim Bolger, having been replaced as Prime Minister by Jenny Shipley in 1997, left Parliament in 1998. This caused a by-election in his Taranaki-King Country seat, won by Shane Ardern of the National Party.
 * Neil Kirton, a New Zealand First list MP, resigned from his party in July 1998 after ongoing conflict with its leadership. Kirton opposed his party's coalition with the National Party, and believed that the National Party was too dominant in the agreement. Kirton became an independent.
 * After the collapse of the coalition between the National Party and New Zealand First, the junior partner, New Zealand First, splintered. Eight MPs (Jenny Bloxham, Peter Brown, Brian Donnelly, Ron Mark, Robyn McDonald, Winston Peters, Doug Woolerton, and Tu Wyllie) remained with the party, and eight MPs (Ann Batten, Tuariki Delamere, Jack Elder, Tau Henare, Peter McCardle, Tuku Morgan, Deborah Morris, and Rana Waitai) resigned and become independents. The MPs who resigned did not remain united, and eventually split four ways.
 * Batten, Elder, Henare, Morgan, and Waitai established the Mauri Pacific party.
 * Delamere joined the Te Tawharau party.
 * Morris resigned from Parliament. She was replaced by Gilbert Myles, the next candidate on her former party's list. Myles remained attached to New Zealand First.
 * McCardle remained an independent.
 * Jill White, a Labour Party list MP, resigned from Parliament in 1998 to become Mayor of Palmerston North. She was replaced by Helen Duncan, the next candidate on Labour's list.
 * Paul East, a National Party list MP, resigned from Parliament in 1999 to take up a post as High Commissioner in London. He was replaced by Alec Neill, the next candidate on National's list.
 * Frank Grover, an Alliance list MP, resigned from his party on 11 June 1999. He joined the Christian Heritage Party.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: 45th New Zealand Parliament


text:
Chris Ryan

Colin Armstrong, (born 1961), usually known by the pen-name Chris Ryan, is a British author, television presenter, security consultant and former Special Air Service sergeant.

After the publication of fellow patrol member Andy McNab's Bravo Two Zero in 1993, Ryan published his own account of his experiences during the Bravo Two Zero mission in 1995, entitled The One That Got Away. Since retiring from the British Army Ryan has published several fiction and non-fiction books, including Strike Back, which was subsequently adapted into a television series for Sky 1, and co-created the ITV action series Ultimate Force. He has also presented or appeared in numerous television documentaries connected to the military or law enforcement.

Early life, education and military service
Ryan was born in Rowlands Gill in County Durham. After attending Hookergate School, he enrolled in the British Army at the age of 16. Ryan's cousin was a member of the reservist 23 SAS Regiment and invited Ryan to come up and "see what it's like to be in the army". Ryan did this nearly every weekend, almost passing selection several times, but was too young to do 'test week'. When he was old enough, he passed selection into 23 SAS. Shortly after that he began selection for the regular 22 SAS Regiment and joined 'B' Squadron as a medic. Needing a parent regiment, Ryan and a former sailor who had joined 22 SAS from the Royal Navy, spent eight weeks with the Parachute Regiment before returning to 'B' Squadron.

During the 1980s he was part of an SAS team sent to Thailand by the UK government to train members of the Khmer Rouge in tactics used to attack civilians in Cambodia.

Bravo Two Zero
During the Gulf War, Ryan was a team member of the ill-fated eight-man SAS patrol, with the call sign Bravo Two Zero. The patrol was sent into Iraq to "gather intelligence,... find a good LUP (lying up position) and set up an OP (observation post)" on the main supply route (MSR) between Baghdad and North-Western Iraq, and eventually take out the Scud TELs.

However they were compromised and forced to head towards Syria on foot. Ryan walked 300 km, from an observation point on the Iraqi MSR between Baghdad and North-Western Iraq, to the Syrian Border. This march made SAS history as the "longest escape and evasion by an SAS trooper or any other soldier", covering 100 mi more than SAS trooper Jack Sillito had in the Sahara Desert in 1942.

During his escape, Ryan suffered injuries from drinking water contaminated with nuclear waste. Besides suffering severe muscle atrophy, he lost 36 lb and did not return to operational duties. Instead, he selected and trained potential recruits, before being honourably discharged from the SAS in 1994.

On 29 June 1991 Ryan was awarded the Military Medal "in recognition of gallant and distinguished services in the Gulf in 1991" although the award was not gazetted until 15 December 1998 together with the equally delayed announcement of Andy McNab's Distinguished Conduct Medal.

Post-military career
After leaving the SAS, Ryan wrote The One That Got Away, which covers the account from his patrol report of the Bravo Two Zero mission. Both his and McNab's accounts have been heavily criticised by former territorial SAS member and explorer Michael Asher, who attempted to retrace the patrol's footsteps for TV and claimed to have debunked both accounts with the help of his friend, the then-SAS regimental sergeant major Peter Ratcliffe.

Ryan has written more than 70 books, both fiction and non-fiction. Many of his works are well known, such as fictional works like Strike Back (2007), which was adapted into the TV show, and Firefight (September 2008). He also writes fictional books for teenage readers, including the Alpha Force Series and "Code Red", and has written a romantic novel, The Fisherman's Daughter, under the pseudonym Molly Jackson.

In addition to his writing Ryan has contributed to several television series and video games. In 2002 Ryan co-created and appeared in ITV's action series, Ultimate Force, playing the role of Blue Troop leader Staff Sergeant Johnny Bell in the first series. He acted as a military adviser for the video game I.G.I.-2: Covert Strike.

Ryan was the star of BBC One's Hunting Chris Ryan in 2003 which later aired on the Military Channel as Special Forces Manhunt. In 2004 Ryan produced several programmes titled Terror Alert: Could You Survive, demonstrating how to survive disasters including flooding, nuclear terrorist attack, mass blackouts, and plane hijackings. In 2005, Ryan presented a Sky One show called How Not to Die, detailing how to survive various life-threatening situations. In 2007 Ryan trained and managed a six-man team to represent Team GB at Sure for Men's Extreme Pamplona Chase in Spain during the Running of the Bulls and also appeared in an episode of the Derren Brown series, Mind Control with Derren Brown, where he booby-trapped a course for Brown to follow whilst blindfolded. Ryan presented the television series Elite World Cops, also broadcast as Armed and Dangerous, which aired on Bravo in 2008. In the show, Ryan spends time with law enforcement agencies around the world.

Personal life
Ryan has one daughter.

His experiences in Iraq caused him to suffer from post traumatic stress disorder. Also, following his consumption of radioactive water during his Bravo Two Zero escape he was warned not to have any children in the future.

Books
Ryan has written the following books:

Non-fiction

 * The One That Got Away (1995)
 * Chris Ryan's SAS Fitness Book (1999)
 * Chris Ryan's Ultimate Survival Guide (2003)
 * Fight to Win: Deadly Skills of the Elite Forces (2009)
 * Safe: How To Stay Safe in a Dangerous World (2017)
 * The History of the SAS (2019)

Fiction
Agent 21
 * Agent 21 (2010)
 * Reloaded (2012)
 * Codebreaker (2013)
 * Deadfall (2014)
 * Under Cover (2015)
 * Endgame (2016)

Alpha Force
 * Survival (2002)
 * Rat-catcher (2002)
 * Desert Pursuit (2003)
 * Hostage (2003)
 * Red Centre (2004)
 * Hunted (2004)
 * Blood Money (2005)
 * Fault Line (2005)
 * Black Gold (2005)
 * Untouchable (2005)

Code Red
 * Flash Flood (2006)
 * Wildfire (2007)
 * Outbreak (2007)
 * Vortex (2008)
 * Twister (2008)
 * Battleground (2009)

Danny Black
 * Masters of War (2013)
 * Hunter Killer (2014)
 * Hellfire (2015)
 * Bad Soldier (2016)
 * Warlord (2017)
 * Head Hunters (2018)
 * Black Ops (2019)
 * Zero 22 (2020)

Extreme
 * Hard Target (2012)
 * Night Strike (2013)
 * Most Wanted (2014)
 * Silent Kill (2015)

Geordie Sharp
 * Stand By, Stand By (1996)
 * Zero Option (1997)''
 * The Kremlin Device (1998)
 * Tenth Man Down (1999)

Jamie Carter
 * Outcast (2022)
 * Cold Red (2023)

Josh Bowman
 * Manhunter (2021)

Matt Browning
 * Greed (2003)
 * The Increment (2004)

Special Forces Cadets
 * Siege (2018)
 * Missing (2019)
 * Justice (2019)
 * Ruthless (2020)
 * Hijack (2020)
 * Assassin (2021)

Strike Back Series is prequel to the novel "Strike Back" (2007)
 * Strike Back (2007)
 * Deathlist (2016)
 * Shadow Kill (2017)
 * Global Strike (2018)
 * Red Strike (2019)
 * Circle of Death (2020)

Quick Reads
 * One Good Turn (2008)

Other
 * The Hit List (2000)
 * The Watchman (2001)
 * Land of Fire (2002)
 * Blackout (2005)
 * Ultimate Weapon (2006)
 * Firefight (2008)
 * ''The Fisherman's Daughter (2009) (as Molly Jackson)
 * Who Dares Wins (2009)
 * The Kill Zone (2010)
 * Medal of Honor (2010)
 * Killing for the Company (2011)
 * Osama (2012)
 * Traitor (2024)

Filmography

 * Ultimate Force (2002) - SSgt Johnny Bell
 * Hunting Chris Ryan (2003) - Himself
 * Elite World Cops (2008) - Himself
 * Chris Ryan's Strike Back (2010) - Commanding Officer

title: Chris Ryan


text:
Liming (soil)

Liming is the application of calcium- (Ca) and magnesium (Mg)-rich materials in various forms, including marl, chalk, limestone, burnt lime or hydrated lime to soil. In acid soils, these materials react as a base and neutralize soil acidity. This often improves plant growth and increases the activity of soil bacteria, but oversupply may result in harm to plant life. Modern liming was preceded by marling, a process of spreading raw chalk and lime debris across soil, in an attempt to modify pH or aggregate size. Evidence of these practices dates to the 1200's and the earliest examples are taken from the modern British Isles.

Impact on soil properties
Liming can also improve aggregate stability on clay soils. For this purpose structure lime, products containing calcium oxide (CaO) or hydroxide (Ca(OH)2) in mixes with calcium carbonate (CaCO3), are often used. Structure liming can reduce losses of clay and nutrients from soil aggregates. The degree to which a given amount of lime per unit of soil volume will increase soil pH depends on the buffer capacity of the soil (this is generally related to soil cation exchange capacity or CEC).

Most acid soils are saturated with aluminum rather than hydrogen ions. The acidity of the soil is therefore a result of hydrolysis of aluminum. This concept of "corrected lime potential" to define the degree of base saturation in soils became the basis for procedures now used in soil testing laboratories to determine the "lime requirement" of soils.

Soils with low CEC will usually show a more marked pH increase than soils with high CEC. But the low-CEC soils will witness more rapid leaching of the added bases, and so will see a quicker return to original acidity unless additional liming is done. Over-liming is most likely to occur on soil that has low CEC, such as sand which is deficient in buffering agents such as organic matter and clay.

Effect on soil organic carbon
The net effect of soil liming on soil organic carbon is primarily the result of three processes.
 * 1) Increased plant productivity resulting in larger organic matter inputs. As soil liming ameliorates soil conditions that inhibit plant growth, an increase in plant productivity is expected. The higher yields resulting from lime applications will produce increased returns of organic matter to the soil in the form of dying roots and decaying crop residue.
 * 2) Increased organic matter mineralization due to a more favorable pH. Lime applications are known to have short-term stimulating effects on soil biological activity, thus favoring organic matter mineralization and very likely accelerating organic matter turnover rates in soil.
 * 3) Amelioration of soil structure leading to a reduction of mineralization by means of protecting soil organic carbon. Liming is known to ameliorate soil structure, as high Ca2+ concentrations and high ionic strength in the soil solution enhance the flocculation of clay minerals and, in turn, form more stable soil aggregates.

An agricultural study at the Faculty of Forestry in Freising, Germany, that compared tree stocks two and twenty years after liming found that liming promotes nitrate leaching and decreases the phosphorus content of some leaves.

title: Liming (soil)


text:
User:Schnolle

Schnolle is a handle for a computer geek and Internet aficionado with a wide variety of interests, which makes him think Wikipedia is one of the greatest ideas of this decade.

Some of his interests are: Cryptography, cosmology, languages in general, markup languages, computer typesetting, science fiction and fantasy literature, computer science, and others.

Messages, criticism, and opinions are gratefully received can be left at his Talk page.

title: User:Schnolle


text:
Dimercaprol

Dimercaprol, also called British anti-Lewisite (BAL), is a medication used to treat acute poisoning by arsenic, mercury, gold, and lead. It may also be used for antimony, thallium, or bismuth poisoning, although the evidence for those uses is not very strong. It is given by injection into a muscle.

Common side effects include high blood pressure, pain at the site of the injection, vomiting, and fever. It is not recommended for people with peanut allergies as it is typically formulated as a suspension in peanut oil. It is unclear if use in pregnancy is safe for the baby. Dimercaprol is a chelator and works by binding with heavy metals. It has a very pungent odor.

Dimercaprol was first made during World War II. It is on the World Health Organization's List of Essential Medicines.

Medical uses
Dimercaprol has long been the mainstay of chelation therapy for lead or arsenic poisoning, and it is an essential drug. It is also used as an antidote to the chemical weapon Lewisite. Nonetheless, because it can have serious adverse effects, researchers have also pursued development of less toxic analogues, such as succimer.

Wilson's disease is a genetic disorder in which copper builds up inside the liver and other tissues. Dimercaprol is a copper chelating agent that has been approved by the FDA to treat Wilson's disease.

Dimercaprol also shows effectiveness against snakebite by potently antagonizing the activity of Zn2+-dependent snake venom metalloproteinases in vitro.

Mechanism of action
Arsenic and some other heavy metals act by chelating with adjacent thiol residues on metabolic enzymes, creating a chelate complex that inhibits the affected enzyme's activity. Dimercaprol competes with the thiol groups for binding the metal ion, which is then excreted in the urine.

Dimercaprol is itself toxic, with a narrow therapeutic range and a tendency to concentrate arsenic in some organs. Other drawbacks include the need to administer it by painful intramuscular injection Serious side effects include nephrotoxicity and hypertension.

Dimercaprol has been found to form stable chelates in vivo with many other metals including inorganic mercury, antimony, bismuth, cadmium, chromium, cobalt, gold, and nickel. However, it is not necessarily the treatment of choice for toxicity to these metals. Dimercaprol has been used as an adjunct in the treatment of the acute encephalopathy of lead toxicity. It is a potentially toxic drug, and its use may be accompanied by multiple side effects. Although treatment with dimercaprol will increase the excretion of cadmium, there is a concomitant increase in renal cadmium concentration, so that its use in case of cadmium toxicity is to be avoided. It does, however, remove inorganic mercury from the kidneys; but is not useful in the treatment of alkylmercury or phenylmercury toxicity. Dimercaprol also enhances the toxicity of selenium and tellurium, so it is not to be used to remove these elements from the body.

History
The original name of dimercaprol reflects its origins as a compound secretly developed by British biochemists at Oxford University in the beginning of the World War II, with the first synthesis in July 1940 as an antidote for lewisite, a now-obsolete arsenic-based chemical warfare agent.

title: Dimercaprol


text:
Gaussian units

Gaussian units constitute a metric system of physical units. This system is the most common of the several electromagnetic unit systems based on cgs (centimetre–gram–second) units. It is also called the Gaussian unit system, Gaussian-cgs units, or often just cgs units. The term "cgs units" is ambiguous and therefore to be avoided if possible: there are several variants of cgs with conflicting definitions of electromagnetic quantities and units.

SI units predominate in most fields, and continue to increase in popularity at the expense of Gaussian units. Alternative unit systems also exist. Conversions between quantities in Gaussian and SI units are direct unit conversions, because the quantities themselves are defined differently in each system. This means that the equations expressing physical laws of electromagnetism—such as Maxwell's equations—will change depending on the system of units employed. As an example, quantities that are dimensionless in one system may have dimension in the other.

Alternative unit systems
The Gaussian unit system is just one of several electromagnetic unit systems within CGS. Others include "electrostatic units", "electromagnetic units", and Heaviside–Lorentz units.

Some other unit systems are called "natural units", a category that includes atomic units, Planck units, and others.

The International System of Units (SI), with the associated International System of Quantities (ISQ), is by far the most common system of units today. In engineering and practical areas, SI is nearly universal and has been for decades. In technical, scientific literature (such as theoretical physics and astronomy), Gaussian units were predominant until recent decades, but are now getting progressively less so. The 8th SI Brochure acknowledges that the CGS-Gaussian unit system has advantages in classical and relativistic electrodynamics, but the 9th SI Brochure makes no mention of CGS systems.

Natural units may be used in more theoretical and abstract fields of physics, particularly particle physics and string theory.

"Rationalized" unit systems
One difference between Gaussian and SI units is in the factors of $4π$ in various formulas. With SI electromagnetic units, called rationalized, Maxwell's equations have no explicit factors of $4π$ in the formulae, whereas the inverse-square force laws – Coulomb's law and the Biot–Savart law –  have a factor of $4π$ attached to the $r$. With Gaussian units, called unrationalized (and unlike Heaviside–Lorentz units), the situation is reversed: two of Maxwell's equations have factors of $4π$ in the formulas, while both of the inverse-square force laws, Coulomb's law and the Biot–Savart law, have no factor of $4π$ attached to $r$ in the denominator.

(The quantity $4π$ appears because $4πr$ is the surface area of the sphere of radius $r$, which reflects the geometry of the configuration. For details, see the articles Relation between Gauss's law and Coulomb's law and Inverse-square law.)

Unit of charge
A major difference between the Gaussian system and the ISQ is in the respective definitions of the quantity charge. In the ISQ, a separate base dimension, electric current, with the associated SI unit, the ampere, is associated with electromagnetic phenomena, with the consequence that a unit of electrical charge (1 coulomb = 1 ampere × 1 second) is a physical quantity that cannot be expressed purely in terms of the mechanical units (kilogram, metre, second). On the other hand, in the Gaussian system, the unit of electric charge (the statcoulomb, statC) be written entirely as a dimensional combination of the non-electrical base units (gram, centimetre, second), as:

$1 statC$ = $1 g^{1/2}⋅cm^{3/2}⋅s^{−1}$.

For example, Coulomb's law in Gaussian units has no constant: $$F = \frac{Q^\mathrm{G}_1 Q^\mathrm{G}_2}{r^2} ,$$ where $F$ is the repulsive force between two electrical charges, $QG 1$ and $QG 2$ are the two charges in question, and $r$ is the distance separating them. If $QG 1$ and $QG 2$ are expressed in statC and $r$ in centimetres, then the unit of $F$ that is coherent with these units is the dyne.

The same law in the ISQ is: $$F = \frac{1}{4\pi\varepsilon_0} \frac{Q^\mathrm{I}_1 Q^\mathrm{I}_2}{r^2}$$ where $ε0$ is the vacuum permittivity, a quantity that is not dimensionless: it has dimension (charge)2 (time)2 (mass)−1 (length)−3. Without $ε0$, the equation would be dimensionally inconsistent with the quantities as defined in the ISQ, whereas the quantity $ε0$ does not appear in Gaussian equations. This is an example of how some dimensional physical constants can be eliminated from the expressions of physical law by the choice of definition of quantities. In the ISQ, $1/\varepsilon_0$ converts or scales flux density, $D$, to the corresponding electric field, $E$ (the latter has dimension of force per charge), while in the Gaussian system, electric flux density is the same quantity as electric field strength in free space aside from a dimensionless constant factor.

In the Gaussian system, the speed of light $c$ appears directly in electromagnetic formulas like Maxwell's equations (see below), whereas in the ISQ it appears via the product $\mu_0 \varepsilon_0=1/c^2$.

Units for magnetism
In the Gaussian system, unlike the ISQ, the electric field $E$ and the magnetic field $B$ have the same dimension. This amounts to a factor of $c$ between how $B$ is defined in the two unit systems, on top of the other differences. (The same factor applies to other magnetic quantities such as the magnetic field, $H$, and magnetization, $M$.) For example, in a planar light wave in vacuum, $|E(r, t)| = |B(r, t)|$ in Gaussian units, while $|E(r, t)| = c |B(r, t)|$ in the ISQ.

Polarization, magnetization
There are further differences between Gaussian system and the ISQ in how quantities related to polarization and magnetization are defined. For one thing, in the Gaussian system, all of the following quantities have the same dimension: $E$, $D$, $P$, $B$, $H$, and $M$. A further point is that the electric and magnetic susceptibility of a material is dimensionless in both Gaussian system and the ISQ, but a given material will have a different numerical susceptibility in the two systems. (Equation is given below.)

List of equations
This section has a list of the basic formulae of electromagnetism, given in both the Gaussian system and the International System of Quantities (ISQ). Most symbol names are not given; for complete explanations and definitions, please click to the appropriate dedicated article for each equation. A simple conversion scheme for use when tables are not available may be found in Garg (2012). All formulas except otherwise noted are from Ref.

Maxwell's equations
Here are Maxwell's equations, both in macroscopic and microscopic forms. Only the "differential form" of the equations is given, not the "integral form"; to get the integral forms apply the divergence theorem or Kelvin–Stokes theorem.

Dielectric and magnetic materials
Below are the expressions for the various fields in a dielectric medium. It is assumed here for simplicity that the medium is homogeneous, linear, isotropic, and nondispersive, so that the permittivity is a simple constant.

where
 * $E$ and $D$ are the electric field and displacement field, respectively;
 * $P$ is the polarization density;
 * $$\varepsilon$$ is the permittivity;
 * $$\varepsilon_0$$ is the permittivity of vacuum (used in the SI system, but meaningless in Gaussian units); and
 * $$\chi_\mathrm{e}$$ is the electric susceptibility.

The quantities $$\varepsilon^\mathrm{G}$$ and $$\varepsilon^\mathrm{I}/\varepsilon_0$$ are both dimensionless, and they have the same numeric value. By contrast, the electric susceptibility $$\chi_\mathrm{e}^\mathrm{G}$$ and $$\chi_\mathrm{e}^\mathrm{I}$$ are both unitless, but have for the same material: $$4\pi \chi_\mathrm{e}^\mathrm{G} = \chi_\mathrm{e}^\mathrm{I}\,.$$

Next, here are the expressions for the various fields in a magnetic medium. Again, it is assumed that the medium is homogeneous, linear, isotropic, and nondispersive, so that the permeability is a simple constant.

where
 * $B$ and $H$ are the magnetic fields;
 * $M$ is magnetization;
 * $$\mu$$ is magnetic permeability;
 * $$\mu_0$$ is the permeability of vacuum (used in the SI system, but meaningless in Gaussian units); and
 * $$\chi_\mathrm{m}$$ is the magnetic susceptibility.

The quantities $$\mu^\mathrm{G}$$ and $$\mu^\mathrm{I}/\mu_0$$ are both dimensionless, and they have the same numeric value. By contrast, the magnetic susceptibility $$\chi_\mathrm{m}^\mathrm{G}$$ and $$\chi_\mathrm{m}^\mathrm{I}$$ are both unitless, but has in the two systems for the same material: $$4\pi \chi_\mathrm{m}^\mathrm{G} = \chi_\mathrm{m}^\mathrm{I}$$

Vector and scalar potentials
The electric and magnetic fields can be written in terms of a vector potential $A$ and a scalar potential $ϕ$:

Electrical circuit
where
 * $Q$ is the electric charge
 * $I$ is the electric current
 * $V$ is the electric potential
 * $Φ$ is the magnetic flux
 * $R$ is the electrical resistance
 * $C$ is the capacitance
 * $L$ is the inductance

Electromagnetic unit names
Note: The SI quantities $$\varepsilon_0$$ and $$\mu_0$$ satisfy $\varepsilon_0\mu_0 = 1/c^2$

The conversion factors are written both symbolically and numerically. The numerical conversion factors can be derived from the symbolic conversion factors by dimensional analysis. For example, the top row says ${1} \,/\, {\sqrt{4\pi\varepsilon_0}} \approx {2.998 \times 10^9 \,\mathrm{Fr}} \,/\, {1\,\mathrm{C}}$,|undefined a relation which can be verified with dimensional analysis, by expanding $$\varepsilon_0$$ and coulombs (C) in SI base units, and expanding statcoulombs (or franklins, Fr) in Gaussian base units.

It is surprising to think of measuring capacitance in centimetres. One useful example is that a centimetre of capacitance is the capacitance between a sphere of radius 1 cm in vacuum and infinity.

Another surprising unit is measuring resistivity in units of seconds. A physical example is: Take a parallel-plate capacitor, which has a "leaky" dielectric with permittivity 1 but a finite resistivity. After charging it up, the capacitor will discharge itself over time, due to current leaking through the dielectric. If the resistivity of the dielectric is $q$ seconds, the half-life of the discharge is $E$ seconds. This result is independent of the size, shape, and charge of the capacitor, and therefore this example illuminates the fundamental connection between resistivity and time units.

Dimensionally equivalent units
A number of the units defined by the table have different names but are in fact dimensionally equivalent – i.e., they have the same expression in terms of the base units cm, g, s. (This is analogous to the distinction in SI between becquerel and Hz, or between newton-metre and joule.) The different names help avoid ambiguities and misunderstandings as to what physical quantity is being measured. In particular, of the following quantities are dimensionally equivalent in Gaussian units, but they are nevertheless given different unit names as follows:

General rules to translate a formula
Any formula can be converted between Gaussian and SI units by using the symbolic conversion factors from Table 1 above.

For example, the electric field of a stationary point charge has the ISQ formula $$\mathbf{E}^{\mathrm{I}} = \frac{q^{\mathrm{I}}}{4\pi \varepsilon_0 r^2} \hat{\mathbf{r}} ,$$ where $I$ is distance, and the "$D$" superscript indicates that the electric field and charge are defined as in the ISQ. If we want the formula to instead use the Gaussian definitions of electric field and charge, we look up how these are related using Table 1, which says: $$\begin{align} \frac{\mathbf{E}^{\mathrm{G}}}{\mathbf{E}^{\mathrm{I}}} &= \sqrt{4\pi\varepsilon_0}\,, \\ \frac{q^{\mathrm{G}}}{q^\mathrm{I}} &= \frac{1}{\sqrt{4\pi\varepsilon_0}}\,. \end{align}$$

Therefore, after substituting and simplifying, we get the Gaussian-system formula: $$\mathbf{E}^{\mathrm{G}} = \frac{q^{\mathrm{G}}}{r^2}\hat{\mathbf{r}}\,,$$ which is the correct Gaussian-system formula, as mentioned in a previous section.

For convenience, the table below has a compilation of the symbolic conversion factors from Table 1. To convert any formula from Gaussian system to the ISQ using this table, replace each symbol in the Gaussian column by the corresponding expression in the SI column (vice versa to convert the other way). This will reproduce any of the specific formulas given in the list above, such as Maxwell's equations, as well as any other formula not listed.

Once all occurrences of the product $$\varepsilon_0 \mu_0$$ have been replaced by $$1/c^2$$, there should be no remaining quantities in the equation that have an ISQ electromagnetic dimension (or, equivalently, that have an SI electromagnetic unit).

title: Gaussian units


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MVA85A

MVA85A (modified vaccinia Ankara 85A) is a vaccine against tuberculosis developed by researchers led by Professor Helen McShane at Oxford University. It is a viral vector vaccine and consists of an MVA virus engineered to express the 85A antigen once it infects a host cell. 85A is a cell-wall protein of the tuberculosis bacillus.

This vaccine produces higher levels of long-lasting cellular immunity when used together with the older TB vaccine BCG. Phase I clinical trials were completed in 2008 and then phase II clinical trials took place in South Africa. Efficacy trials ran in parallel from 2009 to 2019. Results released in February 2013 were described as "disappointing", showing only a statistically insignificant prevention rate in infants. A summary of animal studies published in 2015 cast doubt on the efficacy of the vaccine.

In 2018, a BMJ investigation raised concerns about the ethics of an efficacy trial in South African infants, particularly because of results from earlier animal trials such as a study with macaques at Porton Down. One response argued that 14 prior human trials showed a safety signal, that regulators were aware of the primate trial and decided to continue, and that three subsequent investigations found no evidence of wrong-doing. Another response by Ian Orme questioned the critique of animal models.

title: MVA85A


text:
Americanism (heresy)

Americanism was, in the years around 1900, a political and religious outlook attributed to some American Catholics and denounced as heresy by the Holy See.

In the 1890s, European "continental conservative" clerics detected signs of modernism or classical liberalism, which Pope Pius IX had condemned in the Syllabus of Errors in 1864, among the beliefs and teachings of many members of the American Catholic hierarchy, who denied the charges. Pope Leo XIII wrote against these ideas in a letter to Cardinal James Gibbons, published as Testem benevolentiae nostrae.

The long-term result was that the Irish Catholics who largely controlled the Catholic Church in the United States increasingly demonstrated loyalty to the pope, and suppressed traces of liberal thought in Catholic colleges. At bottom, the conflict was cultural, as conservative American Catholics from continental Europe, angered at the heavy attacks on the Catholic Church in Germany, France and other countries, sought to weaken individualist attitudes among American Catholics.

In Europe
During the French Third Republic, which began in 1870, the power and influence of French Catholicism steadily declined. The French government passed laws bearing more and more stringently on the Catholic church, and the majority of French citizens did not object. Indeed, they began to look toward legislators and not to the clergy for guidance.

Observing this, and encouraged by the action of Pope Leo XIII, who in 1892 called on French Catholics to accept the Republic, several young French priests set themselves to stop the decline in church power. They determined that because the church was predominantly sympathetic to the monarchists and hostile to the Republic, and because it held itself aloof from modern philosophies and practices, people had turned away from it. Some progressive priests believed that the church had not adapted to modern needs. They began a domestic apostolate which had for one of its rallying cries, "Allons au peuple" ("Let us go to the people"). They agitated for social and philanthropic projects, for closer contacts between priests and parishioners, and for general cultivation of personal initiative, both in clergy and in laity. They looked for inspiration to America, where they saw a vigorous church among a free people, with priests publicly respected, and with a note of aggressive zeal in every project of Catholic enterprise.

Isaac Hecker

In the 1890s, this issue was brought forcefully to the attention of European Catholics by Comtesse de Ravilliax's translation of a biography of Isaac Hecker by the Paulist priest Walter Elliott in 1891; the book's introduction by Félix Klein drew ire from the Vatican. Hecker, commonly known as "The Yellow Dart," had been dead for years at this point and had never been viewed by the Pope with disfavor. The French translation of Hecker's biography and Klein's introduction to the book made him appear to have been much more of a radical than he in fact was.

Hecker had sought to reach out to Protestant Americans by stressing certain points of Catholic teaching, but Pope Leo XIII understood that effort as a watering down of Catholic doctrine. Hecker also had used terms such as "natural virtue," which to the pope suggested the Pelagian heresy. Because members of the Paulist Fathers took promises but not the vows of religious orders, many concluded that Hecker denied the need for external authority.

The French liberals particularly admired Hecker for his love of modern times and modern liberty and his devotion to liberal Catholicism. Indeed, they took him as a kind of patron saint. Inspired by Hecker's life and character, the activist French priests undertook the task of persuading their fellow-priests to accept the political system, and then to break out of their isolation, put themselves in touch with the intellectual life of the country, and take an active part in the work of social amelioration. In 1897, the movement received a new impetus when Denis J. O'Connell, former rector of the Pontifical North American College in Rome, spoke on behalf of Hecker's ideas at the Catholic Congress in Fribourg.

Opposition
Some Catholics complained to the Pope, and in 1898, Charles Maignen wrote an ardent polemic against the new movement called Le Père Hecker, est-il un saint? ("Is Father Hecker a Saint?"). The critiques of European conservatives were reinforced by those of German American Catholic bishops in the Midwest, such as Frederick Katzer and John Joseph Frederick Otto Zardetti, who were deeply concerned by how completely Americanist Bishops of Irish descent like John Ireland, John J. Keane, and James Gibbons had come to dominate the American Catholic Church. Arthur Preuss (1871–1934) the foremost German American Catholic intellectual in the United States, was an outspoken enemy, filling his scholarly journal Fortnightly Review with criticisms of Americanist theology.

Many powerful Vatican authorities also opposed the "Americanist" tendency. Pope Leo XIII was reluctant to chastise the American Catholics, whom he had often praised for their loyalty and faith. In 1899 he wrote Cardinal Gibbons, "It is clear...that those opinions that, taken as a whole, some designate as 'Americanism' cannot have our approval."

Suppression

In the 1895 encyclical Longinqua oceani ("Wide Expanse of the Ocean"), Pope Leo XIII indicated a generally positive view of the American Church, commenting mostly on the success of Catholicism in the US but also noting the view that the church "would bring forth more abundant fruits if, in addition to liberty, she enjoyed the favor of the laws and the patronage of the public authority." Leo warned the American church hierarchy not to support this unique system of separation of church and state.

In 1898, Leo lamented for America where church and state are "dissevered and divorced", and wrote of his preference for a closer relationship between the Catholic Church and the State, along European lines.

Finally, in his letter Testem benevolentiae nostrae (January 22, 1899; "Witness to Our Benevolence") addressed to James Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore, Leo condemned other forms of Americanism. Catholicism had long allowed nations to tolerate other religions, but the Catholic church believes that the Catholic Faith must be favored when possible.

Pope Leo XIII also expressed concerns about the cultural liberalism of some American Catholics: he pointed out that the faithful could not decide doctrine for themselves. He emphasized that Catholics should obey the magisterial teaching authority of the church. In general, he deemed it dangerous to expose children to schools that would prove to be detrimental to their Christian upbringing. The Pope derided the idea that all opinions should be aired publicly, as he felt certain speech could harm general morality. He also condemned the biography of Hecker and Americanism.

This document condemned the following doctrines or tendencies:

 * Undue insistence on interior initiative in the spiritual life, as leading to disobedience
 * Attacks on religious vows, and disparagement of the value of religious orders in the modern world
 * Minimizing Catholic doctrine
 * Minimizing the importance of spiritual direction

The brief did not assert that Hecker and the Americans had held any unsound doctrine on the above points. Instead, it merely stated that if such opinions did exist, the local hierarchy was to eradicate them.

American response

In response to Testem benevolentiae, Gibbons and many other American prelates replied to Rome with a near-unanimous voice, denying that American Catholics held any of the condemned views. They asserted that Hecker had never countenanced the slightest departure from Catholic principles in their fullest and most strict application.

The disturbance caused by the condemnation was slight; almost the entire laity and a considerable part of the clergy were unaware of this affair. The Pope's brief did end up strengthening the position of the conservatives in France. Leo's pronouncements effectively ended the Americanist movement and curtailed the activities of American progressive Catholics. Historian Thomas McAvoy argues there were grave long-term negative effects on the intellectual life of American Catholics.

Bernard McQuaid, bishop of Rochester, was a forerunner of the Americanism dispute. He was quick to recognize the mingling of liberalism and Catholicism—which he called "false Americanism"—and distinguish it from living the ideals of republicanism and democracy—"true Americanism." McQuaid was very suspicious of secret societies, non-Catholic schooling, and even some of his fellow bishops. He was particularly concerned about John Ireland, John Keane, and James Cardinal Gibbons, all of whom McQuaid considered "too conciliatory to Protestant-minded America."

John Ireland, archbishop of Saint Paul, Minnesota and a foremost modernizer, had to walk on eggshells to avoid condemnation for his views. Ireland, joined by John J. Keane, archbishop of Dubuque, sought to adapt the social and religious values of the Catholic Church to American political and cultural values, especially religious liberty, separation of church and state, cooperation with non-Catholics, and lay participation in ecclesiastical decisionmaking. Many of his ideas were implicitly condemned by Pope Leo XIII's Testem benevolentiae (1899) as a heresy and Americanism. Nevertheless, Ireland continued to promote his views. When similar European views were condemned by Pope Pius X's Pascendi Dominici gregis (1907), Ireland actively campaigned against what the pope declared the heresy of modernism. This apparently inconsistent behavior stemmed from Ireland's concept of a "golden mean" between "ultraconservatism", rendering the Catholic church irrelevant, and "ultraliberalism," discarding the church's message.

Americanization
Others, such as Orestes Brownson—an abolitionist Catholic public intellectual—were not satisfied with the system of national parishes. Considered an Americanizer, he advocated for immigrants to believe their Catholic identities supersede national divides and personally opposed training priests in the ethnically divided American seminaries. Bishop John Hughes believed that Brownson was part of a "'club' of liberal intellectuals...who wanted to Americanize the church". He publicly denounced Brownson for giving the 1860 commencement address at Fordham University.

title: Americanism (heresy)


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User:Lufi2

Uhm... Egy sarga lufi az egen, mar alig lathato olyan magasra szallt. Van ott egy masik is, az piros. (Ezert 2 ;) Csak bolyong felfele a levegőben... majdhogy a felhőket eri... de veguel hallhatatlanul kipukkad.

English translation
Uhm... Well, to sum it up: /attr mood=INVINCIBLE And I mean it ;)

--Lufi2 09:04, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Rough english translation: Uhm... A yellow balloon on the sky, it flewn so high you can barely see it. There is an other one, that's red. It just meanders up and higher in the air... nearly touching the clouds... but in the end it just pops silently.

title: User:Lufi2


text:
Michael Marra

Michael Marra (17 February 1952 – 23 October 2012) was a Scottish singer-songwriter and musician from Dundee, Scotland. Known as the Bard of Dundee, Marra was a solo performer who toured the UK and performed in arts centres, theatres, folk clubs and village halls. While mainly known as a songwriter, he also worked extensively in theatre, radio and television. His songwriting was rooted in Scottish life and he found an audience within and beyond the folk music scene, which led to him working as a support musician for performers including Van Morrison, The Proclaimers, Barbara Dickson and Deacon Blue. His song "Hermless" was somewhat humorously suggested as a potential Scottish national anthem.

Origins
Marra was brought up in the Lochee district of Dundee, the son of a printer and a schoolteacher. His first public performance, in the 1950s, was at a Christmas party given by NCR, formerly a major employer in the city, with a large factory there.

Musical career
Marra attended Lawside Academy, leaving school at 15 and trying a variety of trades – electrician, baker and builder – before heading for the folk clubs of London. There he played in the band Hen's Teeth with fellow Scottish songwriter Dougie MacLean, before forming the band Skeets Boliver with his brother Chris. Marra played with Skeets Boliver in the mid-1970s, alongside drummer Brian McDermott, saxman Peter McGlone, Gus Foy, Stewart Ivins, and Chris Marra. Signed to Thunderbird Records at an inopportune time, when punk was gaining popularity, the band released two singles, "Streethouse Door" and "Moonlight in Jeopardy", to critical success. They also featured in an edition of the BBC Everyman religious programme, "I Can't See the Light."

In September 2007 Marra released the CD Quintet, featuring five songs about five musicians – Peerie Willie Johnson, Peter McGlone, Thomas Fraser, Martin Carthy and Dr. John. In November 2007, he appeared in a new production of The Demon Barber at Perth Theatre in Scotland where he performed all his music live on stage. Marra also created the opera Nan Garland, which was performed at Dundee Rep in 2004. Three years later, in September 2010, the album Michael Marra, recorded live on tour in 2010 with Mr McFall's Chamber, was released on Delphian Records.

Marra performed original songs with the Scottish Symphony Orchestra, the Scottish National Orchestra, Concerto Caledonia, Mr McFall's Chamber, and his own quintet. He sang duets with Patti Smith, Eddi Reader, Karen Matheson and Karine Polwart.

In 2003 Marra collaborated with Martyn Bennett for his final album Grit (Martyn Bennett album), contributing a spoken passage for the song "Liberation". In an interview Marra stated, "When I first heard it, I thought I sounded like a minister, and that came as a surprise to me. But I think that's what he was after to tell the truth", later joking: "I might become a minister".

His songs have been covered by a wide range of artists, including Sylvia Rae Tracey, Coope Boyes and Simpson, Alan Cumming, Leo Sayer and Rab Noakes. Marra's live CD, Recorded Live on Tour with Mr McFall's Chamber was released on Delphian Records in 2007. In 2012 he released Houseroom, a six-track collaboration CD with The Hazey Janes, on Tob Records.

An exhibition of his portraiture prints was shown at Dundee's Bank Street Gallery.

Musical theatre
Marra wrote original music and worked both as an actor and musical director in theatre.

His first production with Wildcat Stage Productions was Fancy Rappin' and he frequently worked with its Director, Alan Lyddiard at Dundee Rep. He played several roles in the Wildcat and Freeway production of John McGrath's Border Warfare at the Tramway Theatre in February/March 1990. He wrote and performed in the show In Flagrant Delicht which was written in collaboration with Scottish Makar and playwright Liz Lochhead. The show was performed in Washington DC and Melbourne, Australia.

Marra's operetta If The Moon Can Be Believed was performed at the Dundee Rep to sell out audiences. He collaborated with Graham McLaren of Theatre Babel on a new production of The Demon Barber for Perth Theatre having previously worked with him on Liz Lochhead's Beauty and The Beast.

His play St Catherine's Day played to full houses at the Òran Mór Glasgow and the Dundee Repertory Theatre. He also collaborated with award winning choreographer Frank McConnell and his dance company Plan B on "Love and Pocket Money", parallel|parallels and A Wee Home From Home.

Songwriting
In April 2006, having his fingerprints routinely taken by Customs in Washington D.C. – where he was performing as part of Tartan Week – Marra was inspired to write a protest song about Scottish police detective Shirley McKie, who had been wrongly accused of leaving her thumbprint at a murder scene in 1997. When she denied the print was hers, she was arrested and charged with perjury but acquitted in 1999. In February 2006, McKie received an out-of-court settlement of £750,000 from the Scottish Executive, which first minister Jack McConnell described as a result of an honest mistake. In the song, Marra wrote:

Marra's work, though often humorous, tackled a range of social and political issues. His song "Lieblings in The Absence of Love", was written in response to the tension he had witnessed during riots in Bonn, and the treatment of the refugees thereafter. His song "Chain Up The Swings" discusses the practice of some Scottish Christian communities who would chain up the swings on a Sunday, so the children would be prevented from playing on the sabbath. Tackling literary adaption, "Happed in Mist" revolves around the executed deserter from the famous Scottish novel Sunset Song. He proposed his work "Hermless" as an alternative national anthem. The song is intended as a contrast to typical militaristic and imperialist national anthems, and describes the day-to-day life of an innocent meek character who claims,

concluding,

Personal life
Marra was married to Peggy, and their children, Alice and Matthew, are also musicians and members of the Dundee-based group, The Hazey Janes. Labour MSP Jenny Marra is his niece.

Marra was a supporter of Dundee F.C.

Death
Michael Marra died in Ninewells Hospital on 23 October 2012, aged 60, of throat cancer.

Legacy
A mural of Marra was painted in Lochee which was completed on 28 May 2021 by Michael Corr.

Awards
In 2007 Marra was awarded an Honorary Doctorate by Dundee University in recognition of his contribution to the cultural profile of his home town, and in 2011 he was made an Honorary Doctor of Letters by Glasgow Caledonian University. He also won the Herald Angel Award in 2010 for his performance at The Acoustic Music Centre during the Edinburgh Fringe Festival.

Discography
Studio albums
 * The Midas Touch (1980)
 * Gaels Blue (1985)
 * On Stolen Stationery (1991)
 * Candy Philosophy (1993)
 * Posted Sober (2002)

Live albums
 * Pax Vobiscum (1996)
 * Recorded Live on Tour 2010 (with Mr McFall's Chamber) (2010)

EPs
 * Silence (2003)
 * Quintet (2007)
 * Houseroom (with The Hazey Janes) (2012)

title: Michael Marra


text: Talk:Index of object-oriented programming articles


text:
Talk:US Abuse of UN veto

POV
Much as I agree with the sentiment of the article, it is hopelessly POV, starting with the title. --Tagishsimon

I agree. To be neutral, the article should discuss the US's use (both good and bad) of its veto power since the formation of the UN. In any case, does this topic deserve an article of its own? I don't really think so - it could probably go into the UN article Enochlau 09:21, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Major Subject
Why not keep the article? After all, this is 2004 and American politics affects the entire world; will it be Bush or Kerry? Afghanistan, Iraq, France, Germany, Spain, Britain, the UN all feel the actions and decisions of the US in their own backyard.

Furthermore, when the US grants special nation status to a country or creates a free trade zone with one, thats politics of rewarding "friends" but it also affects the economy of that country, and its neighbours in the region.

Similarly, when the US uses its veto power, its telling all the peoples of the world "this subject is dear to our heart for whatever political or economic reasons and we want to protect our interests in this subject via a veto" and that sends political and economic and human rights repercussions vibrating throughout the region.

so i feel this is a major subject that should be explored more and of course moderated by the editors to be as fair as possible. i tried to keep it fair but the only way was to keep it short and simple.

thanks

--Mohammed Arafa 10:28, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

To be fair, many do feel that such a thing exists. This has certainly been a valid reason for creating articles in the past. On the other hand, 'list of John Kerry flip-flops' was nuked at the earliest opportunity. On the third hand, that was outright propaganda while this has relatively much justification. -- Kizor 10:48, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Yes i do think this deserves consideration due to the nature of world power at the moment centering heavily on American dominance, but Wikipedia should contain articles that contain both sides of the story Enochlau 12:19, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Then we put it in. Now that I found out that there already an article describing the US/UN relations, though, I agree with the redirect. -- Kizor 02:20, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:US Abuse of UN veto