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Al-Nasir

Abū al-ʿAbbās Aḥmad ibn al-Hasan al-Mustaḍīʾ (أبو العباس أحمد بن الحسن المستضيء), better known by his al-Nāṣir li-Dīn Allāh (الناصر لدين الله; 6 August 1158 – 5 October 1225) or simply as al-Nasir, was the Abbasid caliph in Baghdad from 1180 until his death. His literally can mean The One who Gives Victory to the Religion of God. He continued the efforts of his grandfather al-Muqtafi in restoring the caliphate to its ancient dominant role and achieved a surprising amount of success as his army even conquered parts of Iran. According to the historian, Angelika Hartmann, al-Nasir was the last effective Abbasid caliph.

In addition to his military success al-Nasir built many monuments in Baghdad that are still standing such as Zumurrud Khatun Mosque and Mausoleum.

Biography
Al-Nasir was the son of Caliph al-Mustadi and a Turkish umm walad called Zumurrud (Emerald). His reign was unusual for the rise of the futuwwa groups in his reign, connected to Baghdad's long-standing ayyarun. These urban social groups had long existed in Baghdad and elsewhere, and they were often involved in urban conflicts, especially sectarian riots. Al-Nasir made them into an instrument of his government, reorganizing them along Sufi lines and ideology.

In the early years of his caliphate, his goal was to crush the Seljuq power and replace it with his own. He incited rebellion against the Seljuq Sultan of Persia, Toghrul III. The Khwarezm Shah, Ala ad-Din Tekish, at his instigation, attacked the Seljuq forces, and defeated them in 1194; Toghrul was killed and his head exposed in the caliph's palace. Tekish, recognized now as supreme ruler of the East, bestowed on the caliph certain provinces of Persia that had been held by the Seljuqs.

Al-Nasir's mother Zumurrud died in December 1202–January 1203, or January–February 1203, and was buried in her own mausoleum in Sheikh Maarouf Cemetery. Her mausoleum is known as Zumurrud Khatun Mausoleum.

Al-Nasir sent his vizier to Tekish with some gifts, but the vizier irritated Tekish, who attacked the caliph's troops and routed them. Thereafter hostile relations prevailed for many years. The Caliph assassinated a governor of Tekish by using an Ismaili emissary. Tekish responded by having the body of al-Nasir's vizier, who died on a campaign against him, exhumed, and the head stuck up at Khwarizm. Irritated at this and other hostile acts, the Caliph retaliated by treating with indignity the pilgrims who came from the East under Khwarizm's flag. But beyond such poor revenge, he was powerless for any open enmity.

Tekish's son, Muhammad II (1200–1220), annoyed at the actions of the caliph, set up a Shi'a Caliph to paralyse al-Nasir's spiritual power. Following up this act, he turned his army on Baghdad. In response, some medieval historians write that al-Nasir appealed to Genghis Khan, the rising Mongol chief, to check Muhammad's progress. This point is controversial, but it is likely that the caliph had some contacts to the non-Muslims Mongols.

The caliph soon found Genghis Khan to be quite threatening. The steppes of Central Asia were set in motion by Genghis Khan, and his hordes put to flight the Khwarizm Shah, who died an exile in an island of the Caspian.

Policies and events
During the caliphate of al-Nasir several important political changes, incidents and developments took place. He also took part in them directly and sometimes indirectly.

Events between 1187 and 1190
In 1186 a conflict broke between sultan Toghrul III and Qizil Arslan. This conflict possibly prevented Toghrul III and Qizil Arslan from aiding Muhammad b. Bahram Shah, the last Seljuk Sultan of Kirman, who had been driven from Kirman by Oghuz rebels driven out from Khurasan in 1186

The rebel army consisted of the forces of the Amirs of Zenjan and Maragha, the retainers of both Kamal Ai-Aba, head of the Mamluks, and of Saif al-Din Rus, husband of Innach Khatun, while Toghrul himself received significant support from Turkmens, and their combined army forced Qizil Arslan to leave Hamadan after some clashes. Toghrul undertook two diplomatic ventures in 1187, he journeyed to Mazandaran to request aid from Bavandid Husam al-Daula Ardashir, and received troops from him, and Toghrul also sent messages to al-Nasir, asking him to restore the palace of the Seljuk Sultan in Baghdad for him, but the Caliph razed the palace and then sent aid to Qizil Arslan, who agreed to become the Caliph's vassal. The Caliph sent an army numbering 15,000 under his vizier Jalal al-Din 'Ubaidallah b. Yunus, which attacked Hamadan in 1188 without waiting for Qizil Arslan's army to arrive, he was defeated and captured, Toghrul secured victory by charging the enemy center after his right wing was battered, but this was a Pyrrhic victory, as Toghrul's army suffered grievous losses in the battle. The Sultan next tried to reform his administration and coordinate strategy with available resources, but his rash behavior regarding a dispute over the command of the army, led to the execution of Kamal Ai-Aba, Saifuddin Rus and several of the Sultan's opponents, and the desertion of his allies.

Qizil Arslan had declared Sanjar b. Suleiman-Shah as the Seljuk Sultan of Iraq, and reinforced by troops sent by the Caliph now invaded Hamadan, Toghrul, unable to resist the invasion, first retreated to Isphahan, then to Urmia. He was joined by an army led by his brother in law Hasan Kipchiq, and Toghrul also tried to get help from the Ayyubids and the Caliph, even sent his infant son as hostage to Baghdad in a futile gesture. Toghrul invaded Azerbaijan and sacked the towns of Ushnu, Khoy, Urmiya and Salmas. Qizil Arslan reconciled with his nephews and defeated and captured Toghrul when he again invaded Azerbaijan in 1190. Qizli Arslan imprisoned Toghrul and his son Malik Shah in Kuhran fortress near Tabriz. Qizil Arslan, encouraged by the Caliph, soon declared himself Sultan, married Innach Khatun, his brother's widow, and was poisoned by her in September, 1191. His nephews began to rule independently, and one of the Mamluks of Jahan Pahalvan, Mahmud Anas Oglu, freed Toghrul III from his prison in May 1192.

Events of 1192–1194
Toghrul eluded the pursuers sent by Abu Bakr and quickly assembled an army from his supporters and Turkmens, then marched east and defeated the army of Qutlugh Inanch Muhammad and Amir Amiran Umar near Qazvin on June 22, 1192, and won over a large part of the enemy soldiers after his victory. Qutlug-Inach and Amiran Omar then attacked Abu Bakr in Azerbaijan and was beaten, Aimiran Umar sought refuge with his father in law Shirvanshah Akhsitan I (c. 1160-1196), while Qutlug-Inach moved to Rey. Toghrul occupied Hamadan, secured the treasury and came to rule over Isphahan and Jibal, but did not attempt to negotiate an agreement with Abu Bakr, against Qutlug Innach. Qutlugh Innach now appealed to Khwarazmshah Ala ad-Din Tekish for aid, and Tekish invaded and captured Rey in 1192, forcing Qutlug Innach to flee the city.

Toghrul's Truce with Tekish
Sultan Toghrul III opened negotiations with Tekish, and eventually agreed to become a vassal of Khwarizm, marriage of his daughter The Tekish's son Yunus Khan, and in return Tekish kept Rey, garrisoned his newly acquired territory, collected taxes, then installed Tamghach as the governor, and returned home to quell the rebellion of his brother Sultan Shah. Toghrul now had the chance to negotiate with the Atabeg of Yazd, Langar ibn Wardanruz, or the Salghurid ruler of Fars, Degle ibn Zangi, both were nominally loyal to the Seljuks but no initiatives were taken to unite against their common enemy.

Breaking of Truce and War declaration of Tekish and al-Nasir
Toghrul felt threatened with the presence of a hostile force in Rey, which was a strategic town commanding communication with Jibal and Azerbaijan was unacceptable to the Sultan. The Sultan marched towards Rey with his available forces in March 1193, defeated and killed Tamghach, captured Rey and drove out the Khrarizmian forces from the province. Toghrul III next married Innach Khatun, mother of Qutlug Innach and Amirin Umar, as part of the peace agreement on her request, however, she was executed after the discovery of a plot to poison the Sultan. The Sultan returned to Hamadan, Qutlug Innach fled to Zanjan, from where he sent messages to Tekish, and al-Nasir also asked the Tekish to move against Toghrul. Toghrul again moved east in 1194 and defeated Qutlug Innach in battle despite the presence of 7,000 Khwarazmian troops aiding Qutlug Innach. Qutlug Innach and other survivors moved east and joined up with the main Khwarizmian army led by Shah Tekish at Semnan.

Tughril was defeated in the battle of Ray by Tekish with the help of al-Nasir. Ala ad-Din Tekish sent Toghrul's head to al-Nasir who displayed it at the Nubi Gate in front of his palace, while his body was hanged at Rey.

His Rejection of Khwarezmid's claim
By 1217, Muhammad had conquered all the lands from the river Jaxartes to the Gulf. He declared himself shah and demanded formal recognition from the caliph. When the caliph al-Nasir rejected his claim, Ala ad-Din Muhammad gathered an army and marched towards Baghdad to depose al-Nasir. However, when crossing the Zagros Mountains, the shah's army was caught in a blizzard. Thousands of warriors died. With the army decimated, the generals had no choice but to return home.

Death
Al-Nasir spent his last three years paralysed and nearly blind. He suffered from dysentery for twenty days and then died. He was succeeded by his son al-Zahir in the year 1225 as the thirty-fifth Abbasid caliph. His son ruled for a short period, al-Zahir lowered the taxes, and built a strong army to resist invasions. He died on 10 July 1226, nine months after his accession. He was succeeded his son (al-Nasir's grandson) al-Mustansir.

title: Al-Nasir


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Talk:William Charles Wentworth

Possible Wiki Links
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 * Can link Parliamentary seat: ... for the original WCW, plus the Federal Parliamentary seat of Wentworth in the eastern suburbs...
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license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:William Charles Wentworth


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Jeff Hostetler

William Jeffrey Hostetler (born April 22, 1961) is an American former professional football player who was a quarterback in the National Football League (NFL) for the New York Giants, Los Angeles/Oakland Raiders, and Washington Redskins. He won Super Bowl XXV with the Giants after taking over midseason for an injured Phil Simms. His nickname is "Hoss."

Penn State
Hostetler started his career at Penn State, where he started three games for the 1980 season. But Todd Blackledge soon beat him out for the starting quarterback job, and Hostetler transferred to West Virginia. Hostetler sat out the 1981 season, due to NCAA transfer rules.

West Virginia
Hostetler's first game as a Mountaineer was a 41–27 win over the #9 1982 Oklahoma Sooners football team, when he threw for four touchdowns and 321 yards. The upset victory earned Hostetler Offensive Player of the Week honors from Sports Illustrated. Another big win that season was a week later against the Maryland Terrapins, who were led by Boomer Esiason. The Mountaineers won 19–18 against the Top 10 ranked Terps. The Terps lost the game on a two-point conversion, while Hostetler threw for 285 yards and a touchdown. Hostetler led the Mountaineers to the 1982 Gator Bowl, where they lost to Florida State 31–12. Hostetler totaled 1,916 yards with ten touchdown passes that season.

In 1983, Hostetler led the #7 Mountaineers over Big East rival Pitt after a fourth quarter run to beat the Panthers 24–21, the first victory over Pitt in seven years. Hostetler led the game-winning drive that he capped out with a bootleg touchdown run for victory. In the 1983 Hall of Fame Bowl, Hostetler pulled out a come-from-behind 20–16 victory over the University of Kentucky, throwing two touchdowns. Hostetler finished his college career in the 1984 Hula Bowl and in the Japan Bowl. Hostetler threw for 2,345 yards and 16 touchdowns his senior season.

Hostetler was honored as a third-team All-American for 1983 by Gannett News Service.

Hostetler's two-year tenure at WVU led him to an 18–6 record under coach Don Nehlen. Hostetler ranks among single-season leaders at WVU in total offense, passing yards, pass completions, pass attempts, touchdown passes and passing efficiency. Hostetler also is the career leader in interception avoidance. Hostetler was named to the WVU all-time roster. In 1998, Hostetler was inducted into the West Virginia Sports Hall of Fame.

Hostetler was named to the 1984 GTE/CoSIDA academic All-America team and that same year won the National Football Foundation postgraduate scholarship. He was also a fan favorite in Morgantown and inspired a record, "Ole Hoss (The Ballad of West Virginia's Jeff Hostetler)".

New York Giants
Hostetler was drafted by the Giants in the third round of the 1984 NFL Draft. In his first five seasons, he played sparingly, rarely making an appearance as he was the third-string quarterback behind Phil Simms and Jeff Rutledge. The first time he ever touched a football in a regular season game was in the 1986 season, when he blocked a punt in a game against the Philadelphia Eagles. His first start came late in the 1988 season, where he helped lead the Giants to victory in a road game against the New Orleans Saints. In 1989, he started a key game in the middle of the season, leading the Giants to a Monday night victory over the Minnesota Vikings. However, outside of these games, Hostetler's primary roles were mop-up duty and as a holder for kickers Raul Allegre, Bjorn Nittmo, and Matt Bahr. In 2007, in the episode of America's Game: The Super Bowl Champions that profiled the 1990 Giants team, Hostetler noted that he was frustrated with his lack of playing time and volunteered to play other positions, including wide receiver and blocker on the punt return team.

Hostetler finally seemed to reach his breaking point in December 1990. He had seen meaningful action in only one game that season, replacing Simms in the Giants' first game against the Phoenix Cardinals. Although he led the team to victory by engineering a late comeback with the team down 19–10 (they would win 20–19), Simms resumed his starting position the next week. Heading into Week 15 against the Buffalo Bills, Hostetler had decided that at the end of the season, he was retiring from the NFL and returning home. Something happened that week, however, that would eventually lead him to change his mind.

In the second half of the Buffalo game, which the Giants would go on to lose, Simms again went down with an injury. The Giants lost the game; Hostetler, speaking again to NFL Network, did not believe that Simms was hurt badly and figured that he was only a placeholder until Simms returned. As it turned out, Simms had suffered a severe foot injury and thus would be out for the remainder of the season, giving Hostetler his long awaited opportunity. He led the Giants to two victories, a second win to secure a season sweep over the Cardinals and a surprisingly close victory over the team with the worst record in the league, the New England Patriots, and secured them a first-round bye with a 13–3 record. The Giants then beat the Chicago Bears in the divisional playoff.

In the NFC Championship against the San Francisco 49ers, Hostetler suffered a knee injury in the fourth quarter when Jim Burt, his former teammate, hit him low after Hostetler released the ball. Although he was injured, Hostetler was able to walk off the field on his own and later returned to the game and engineered two late scoring drives, that culminated with a Bahr field goal, and a 15–13 victory.

Hostetler started Super Bowl XXV; the Giants defeated the heavily favored Bills 20–19. He completed 20 of 32 passes for 222 yards with one touchdown. In 2008, ESPN ranked Hostetler's performance the 30th best quarterback performance in Super Bowl history. After reconsidering his retirement, he elected to return for the 1991 season.

During the summer of 1991, new coach Ray Handley made a decision regarding his quarterbacks. Instead of giving the starting job back to the now-healthy Simms, the coach held an open competition that Hostetler would ultimately win. He then led the Giants to victory in the season opener against the 49ers at home, snapping their NFL-record 18 game road winning streak. In his twelfth start against the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, Hostetler broke his back and missed the rest of the season. Of the games Hostetler started (including the one he didn't finish), the Giants went 7–5. Simms, meanwhile, lost his first three starts against the lowly Cincinnati Bengals (who won only three times that year), the Philadelphia Eagles (a loss which eliminated the Giants from playoff contention), and the eventual Super Bowl champion Washington Redskins. The Giants managed to win their final matchup against the Houston Oilers to finish 8–8.

When the 1992 season began, Hostetler was again the backup as Simms managed to regain the starter's spot. However, the veteran's proneness to injury again caught up with him, and in Week 4, Simms suffered a severe elbow injury that ended up costing him the rest of the season. Hostetler was once again given the helm but he also had injury issues, including suffering a concussion. He missed three games after resuming his starting position but finished with five victories in his nine starts, including three wins against winning teams. Despite that, he only managed to throw for eight touchdowns, and the Giants, who went through four quarterbacks that season, finished 6–10.

After the 1992 season, Ray Handley was fired, and former Denver Broncos coach Dan Reeves was hired as his replacement. Simms would be named the starter and Hostetler's contract was not renewed for 1993.

Los Angeles / Oakland Raiders
In the 1993 offseason, Hostetler moved west and signed a contract with the Los Angeles Raiders. He would become their starter and once again found success as the Raiders finished with a 10–6 record and made the playoffs as a wild card.

Following the 1993 regular season, Hostetler led the Raiders to an impressive 42–24 playoff win over the Denver Broncos. The veteran quarterback threw for 294 yards and three touchdowns in what would be the last NFL playoff game played in Los Angeles until the 2017 season, when the LA Rams hosted the Atlanta Falcons in the wild card round.

In 1994, Hostetler was voted to his only career Pro Bowl after leading the Raiders to a 9–7 record. With the Raiders back in Oakland for the 1995 campaign, Hostetler got his team off to an impressive 8–2 record. However, a shoulder injury kept him out for all but the final game of the season. The Raiders lost their final six games and finished 8–8.

Hostetler's final year in Oakland saw him reach a career high in touchdown passes with 23, as he started thirteen games and finished with a 7–6 record. Once again, however, the Raiders missed the playoffs and at the end of the season, Hostetler was again out of work as the Raiders did not offer him a contract.

Washington Redskins
The 36-year old Hostetler signed a contract with the Washington Redskins for 1997, with the team signing him as a backup for their fourth-year starter Gus Frerotte.

Late in the 1997 season, Hostetler returned to the starting lineup after an odd series of events. During a late season Sunday night matchup against Hostetler's former team the Giants, Frerotte scored what would prove to be the Redskins' only touchdown in a 7–7 tie. After he did so, Frerotte walked over to a padded concrete wall in the back of the end zone and headbutted it, causing a neck injury that ended his season. Hostetler finished the game and then started the remaining three, finishing with a 2–1 record. His loss came at the hands of his former team, as the Giants defeated the Redskins in the penultimate game of the season to win the NFC East championship.

Hostetler retired after the 1998 season, which he spent on injured reserve. He nearly came out of retirement in 1999 after a tryout with the St. Louis Rams where he would have backed up newly-signed quarterback Trent Green, who supplanted both Hostetler and Frerotte as the starter in Washington in 1998. However, the Rams instead drafted Ohio State quarterback Joe Germaine in the 1999 NFL Draft to serve as their third-stringer and elevating holdover Kurt Warner to second string; Warner would have been third string behind Hostetler had the latter signed with the Rams. It can be argued that the Rams not signing Hostetler helped kick-start The Greatest Show on Turf era due to Green's injury in the subsequent preseason and Warner's unexpected rise to stardom and eventual induction into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

Hostetler finished with 1,357 of 2,338 completions for 16,430 yards and 94 touchdowns, with 71 interceptions. He also rushed for 1,391 yards and 17 touchdowns. Perhaps most impressive about Hostetler was his ability to perform very well in the post-season. In five playoff games, he completed 72 of 115 passes (62.6 percent) for 1,034 yards, seven touchdowns, no interceptions, and a 112.0 passer rating while going 4–1.

Personal
Hostetler now lives in Morgantown, West Virginia, and owns a construction company. Hostetler is a descendant of the Amish-Mennonite immigrant, Jacob Hochstetler, member of the Northkill Amish Settlement, the first identifiable Amish settlement in the United States. With his wife, Vicky (daughter of his college coach, Don Nehlen), he has three sons. Hostetler graduated with a 3.85 GPA and a degree in Finance from West Virginia University. His nephew is Ryan Nehlen, who played wide receiver for the West Virginia Mountaineers.

Chris Cuomo of ABC News interviewed Hostetler as part of One Moment in Time: The Life of Whitney Houston, a two-hour special on ABC shortly after the 2012 death of singer Whitney Houston. In Super Bowl XXV, Houston performed "The Star-Spangled Banner", and Hostetler and Super Bowl XXV MVP Ottis Anderson reflected on Houston's performance in that game.

He is the uncle of former Buffalo Bills tight-end Jonathan Stupar and former New York Giants linebacker Nate Stupar.

title: Jeff Hostetler


text:
Al-Zahir bi-Amr Allah

Abū Nasr Muhammad ibn al-Nāsir (أبو نصر محمد بن الناصر; 1175 – 11 July 1226), better known with his regnal name al-Ẓāhir bi-Amr Allāh (الظاهر بأمر الله, lit. 'He Who Appears Openly by the Order of God'), was the Abbasid caliph in Baghdad from 1225 to 1226. He succeeded his father al-Nasir in the year 1225 as the thirty-fifth Abbasid Caliph.

Biography
Al-Zahir bi-Amr Allah was the son of al-Nasir and Asma Umm Muhammad. His full name was Muhammad ibn Ahmad al-Nāsir and his Kunya was Abu Nasr. He was named as successor in 1189. In his short reign, he lowered the taxes, and built a strong army to resist invasions. He died on 10 July 1226, nine months after his accession.

Al-Nasir was the Abbasid Caliph from 1180 until his death in 1225. His father attempted to restore the caliphate to its ancient dominant role. According to the historian, Angelika Hartmann, al-Nasir was the last effective Abbasid Caliph.

Mongol invasion of Khwarezmia
When it became known that Genghis Khan was marching towards Khwarazm, Jalal al-Din proposed to his father to meet the Mongols in one decisive battle near the Syr Darya. However, Muhammad II relied on his well-fortified fortresses and did not assemble troops, distributing them instead among the major towns of his empire. Meanwhile, the Mongols swiftly took one city after another. At the beginning of 1220, Bukhara fell, followed by Samarqand. Muhammad started to retreat west, and after a series of unsuccessful battles, was left with a handful of soldiers and his sons. The huge and undisciplined Khwarazmian army was unable to defeat the enemy, which was much inferior in number.

Legend has it that Muhammad, who fled to the Caspian Sea, being terminally ill, gathered his sons: Jalal ad-Din, Aqshah, and Uzlagh Khan and announced that he appointed Jalal ad-Din as heir to the throne, because only he could confront the enemy. Summoning the younger sons to obedience, he hung his sword on the belt of Jalal ad-Din. A few days later, Muhammad died and Jalal ad-Din was proclaimed a Khwarazmshah.

Following the defeat of his father, Ala ad-Din Muhammad II by Genghis Khan in 1220, Jalal ad-Din Mingburnu came to power and retreated with the remaining Khwarazm forces, while pursued by a Mongol army and at the Battle of Parwan, north of Kabul, defeated the Mongols. Due to the Mongol invasion, the sacking of Samarkand and being deserted by his Afghan allies, Jalal ad-Din was forced to flee to India. At the Indus River, however, the Mongols caught up with him and slaughtered his forces, along with thousands of refugees, at the Battle of the Indus. He escaped and sought asylum in the Sultanate of Delhi but Iltutmish denied this to him in deference to the relationship with the Abbasid caliphs. The cities of Herat, Ghazni and Merv were destroyed and massacred by the Mongols, for his resistance or rebelliousness.

Family
One of al-Zahir's concubines was Hayat Khatun. She was of Turkish origin, a favored and trusted concubine, and the mother of one of his sons. She was manumitted upon his death and became a free woman. She died on 16 August 1241, and was buried in the mausoleum of the caliph al-Mustadi. Another of his concubines was Bab Jawhar. She was a Turkish slave who was also a favorite of al-Zahir. She died on 1 August 1241, and was buried near the caliphal tombs in the Rusafah Cemetery. Another of his concubines was a Turkish slave. She was the mother of the future Caliph al-Mustansir. Al-Zahir's other notable son was Abu al-Qasim Ahmad.

Succession
Al-Zahir was succeeded by al-Mustansir bi-llah.

title: Al-Zahir bi-Amr Allah


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Reithy

Case Opened on 22 Oct 2004

Case Closed with no action taken 3 Dec 2004

Case still open. Thanks.

 * Rhobite is asked not to edit this page given he is not a particpant until further notice.

Please do not edit this page directly if you are not a participant in this case. Comments are very welcome on the Talk page, and will be read, in full. Evidence, no matter who can provide it, is very welcome at /Evidence. Evidence is more useful than comments.

Arbitrators will be working on a proposed decision at /Proposed decision.

Statement of complaint Statement of Withdraw
After having a discussion with Reithy, I have withdrawn my arbitration case against him as he has agreed to before-hand steps in the dispute resoultion process, that he previously had not agreed to. all complaints have been dropped Chuck F 11:01, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Thank you for explaining this, which will certainly impact our decision. However, as others have become involved in this issue, you no longer have the authority to withdraw the case. Accordingly, the temporary injunction remains. Martin 17:07, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

User:Reithy has a request for comments open: Requests_for_comment/Reithy detailing his vandalism spree and his attack on other users. Since this every single day he has been creating a new account to insult me on his user/page talks pages, Talk about what a vandal I i'm, Revert other editors edits with his different accounts to make it seem like he has concenus. etc...(please see request for comments for basis for major problems.

He has been conducting a general campaign against me in the past week, with a different account per day to make it seem as if I have a large base of hatred from different users being directed at how awful I am.

Impossible to talk/reason with because he actually seems to like to believe that he's a sockpuppet and a unique indivudal any time you try to confront him.

His accounts he has created in just the past week are: User:Chuckschneider User:Schweppes42 User:144.132.89.151 user:Guido1970 user:ReithySockPuppet (pay particular attention to this one's user page) User:Lukewilson user:CorporalPunishment user:MunchieRonnie and user:PockyChoc.Chuck F 08:54, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Arbitration is great, but will it stop the page reverting and wholesale deletions by a user only recently unblocked, called ChuckF. Answer: No. Just check his contributions, they speak for themselves. But that said, we love him so. ReithySockPuppet 13:20, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Statement by affected party
Okay, Since I'm obviously now a member of this case, let me say I think it's a tad unfair, that to get me involved in this case others didn't have to go thorough the normal requests for arbitration case or dispute resolution.... Nobody besides Rhobite even attempted any type of dispute resolution that is bringing up claims on me.

Take a look at Talk:Libertarian_capitalism It’s obvious that I’m willing to use talk Extensively even when others are not, in fact the only reason for an edit war on that page was because the anon ip said he wasn't going to read anything I put on talk, so I had to make my arguments in the edit summaries, that this same person that was edit warring with me is then able ,thanks to the fact I have an arbcom case against Reithy open, skip all the normal steps of dispute r

Baring that I also believe that the anon Ip user User:172.202.143.61(note that he has many other ips he's using as Rhobite can attest to, and has been edit warring with me extensvily without using talk), although while an Aol Anon ip and therefore impossible to ban should become a member of this case also, because his actions were the same if not worse then mine(he said that he refused to communicate, until I apologized)Chuck F 04:18, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Rhobite's response to the statement by affected party

 * I hope it goes without saying that I'm doubtful of Chuck's willingness to compromise. Even while he's proposing dispute resolution with Reithy, he is insisting that his participation in an edit war with an anonymous AOL user (172.202.143.61 etc) was justified. I did attempt mediation with Chuck F, and I consider it a failure. And I hope it goes without saying that we should all be far past the point of assuming good faith on Reithy's part, especially considering his latest e-mail spree. I'm very disappointed at the apparent willingness of arbitrators to shelve this case. It needs resolution, not continuation. I'm not dropping any of my claims against either user. Rhobite 05:20, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

 * Amen. Let me go a step further, though, and say that I think Chuck's actions, well-documented here, have made it very clear that he's unwilling to abide by policy or to work towards compromise. Given that he refuses to even acknowledge that his behavior has been inappropriate, what's the point of mediation, other than to waste everyone's time? As for Reithy, why are we talking about anything less than an immediate long-term ban? RadicalSubversiv E 08:24, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Hey! Thanks for putting words in my mouth people.

 * I belive my statment above said that I was actually using talk(I provided an excellent example) and that I was edit warring because the anon ip(which has no arbcom case against him, even though he said he refused to read what I put on talk, and did worse then I did(said he was going to revert any edit I made anywhere till I apolgized).

 * Looking back on it, I probly should have just waited 6 hours until he went away to revert him, and then call others attention to the fact he refused to use talk, but his edit sumarries that were compleatly ignoring my edit summaries and what I put in talk really started to hack me off... I should probly better control myself, something like making the three revert rule a real rule for me would possibly help, but it would only be fair to give it to that anon ip too then. Besides all that Radical - your portyal of me as an evil creature really bothers and isn't very nice. Chuck F 09:08, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I didn't call you an evil creature. I said that you were unwilling to play well with others, and I think your continued refusal to admit to your obvious wrongdoing (and I'm not just talking about the three-revert rule) proves my point. RadicalSubversiv E 20:50, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I haven't even had any run-ins with you besides you misinterperting my edits to be blindless reverts when they weren't. You're makng a huge deal about the fact I removed one sentence when I reverted, which I had no problem with when somebody re-added that pargraph later Chuck F 03:09, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

- I welcome this opportunity for my edits to be reviewed.

 * I am happy to defend each specific edit I have made, which I have tried to do from a neutral perspective, with research backing it up.

 * I am new to Wikipedia and its forms, although I am learning.

 * I do not understand on what basis it could be said that Libertarianism was abusively moved given that a matching page of libertarian socialism existed, I believe eventually a disambiguation page will be put up replacing the current existing situation. I will leave this to others however.

 * I have never once created an account for the purpose of voting in surveys or falsely creating the impression of a consensus. There is no rule against creating accounts otherwise.

 * I have learned to refrain from insults

 * I have been willing to negotiate with Chuck_F, I have not received a single message from him other than this request for arbitration.

My position is clear: this request for arbitration is from a highly combative, obstructive and POV driven individual who has been suspended more times than most people have had hot dinners. I am happy to participate, however, and will accept any rulings.

Reithy 03:17, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Additional statement of complaint against the main complainant
I'm new to the arbitration process, so I hope this isn't out of place, but I'd like to formally ask the arbitration committee to consider, as part of this case, the actions of Chuck F, whose own highly-POV involvement in edit wars is a serious source of concern. Chuck has not merely reverted inappropriate edits by Reithy and his sockpuppets -- he has also reverted Reithy's few good edits, actively resisted the efforts of others to move towards compromise and consensus, and otherwise worked to insert his own pro-Libertarian POV. He is himself the target of an RFC, Requests for comment/Chuck_F; evidence is abundant there as well as at Talk:Ron Paul. I therefore formally ask the arbitrators to consider Chuck's edits, even those not directly related to the aforestated behavior of Reithy, in this proceeding. RadicalSubversiv E 06:28, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Radical - I've been over this with Rhobite. My problem on the Ron Paul page was the fact that the quote was taken out of context... the fact that you guys Said wow amazing research on the talk page, when somebody posted the link to the article and the full quote just befounds me and might be the reason that people were so open to that edit. Chuck F 07:20, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Thank you Radical, for your contribution which I realize is no endorsement but I believe puts Chuck_F's sham request for arbitration in context. I have learned not to act in an inappropriate way even when provoked. Reithy 09:08, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Counterclaim by Reithy
Chuck_F has brought a request for arbitration, which in my view is a sham because of his unreasonable approach. Records demonstrate that Chuck_F is in dispute with a significant number of users prompted - in my submission - by his failure to understand the mission of Wikipedia.

Wikipedia functions on the basis of good faith and an aspiration to neutrality. I submit that Chuck_F's conduct is in breach of that spirit as manifested by the following:

 * Abusive comments directed at several other users, repeated and unsubtantiated allegations of 'vandalism' directed at anyone who disagrees with him, talk of 'raping' articles , questioning the sanity of other users , unsubstantiated allegations that other users 'made it up', aggressive comments like "your edit is pointless", "you have to do better than that", 'blatnat(sic) bias', 'you're a moron'
 * Introducing POV to articles in several cases, the Ron Paul article was protected and then all content he didn't like was immediately reverted with the comment "WOOHOO! back to the proper verison (sic)", and false claims that quotes were not "in context" when the context of the quotes was comprehensively explained in the article. and was still not happy when the full quote and a lot of contextual material was entered
 * Reverting without justification ,
 * Deleting relevant and appropriate content without explanation, the Roppongi Hills article being the most egregious example
 * Consistent failure to use Talk, his failure to engage in any let alone genuine discussion in Libertarianism is recorded here, and in Libertarian Party
 * Defying consensus in Talk to push POV, eg the issue of whether to include Congressman Ron Paul's comments about African-Americans
 * Submitting "joke" pages.

---

I only have one response to this... all the users that Reithy puts as evidence that I have disputes with in all but one of this examples is Reithy himself. I knew you were creating multiple-accounts for a reason, I didn't it was so you'd make me keep insulting you and then you'd claim I insult all users of Wikipedia.

 * Many of the above examples are with users other than me. An admin can check the veracity of this claim and confirm. Reithy 10:57, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

Oh and another thing about the ron paul issue, as I stated elsewhere: The fact that people said good research when somebody actually posted the full text of the article the Ron paul quote was taken from, just makes me wonder about the research done here, and clearly shows why concenus was against me, Nobody else had read the article! I've already proven elsewhere how you took the quote out of context: if somebody writes The county issued a report saying that 95 percent of african-americans are criminals, it's not excatly valid to take out the "county issued a report saying that" and then attribuate them as saying that 95 percent of males are crimanls Chuck F 09:24, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I posted the full text of the article in fact. I posted a link to the Texas Monthly article in the main text of the article originally! If you can't follow the link, I'm sorry about that but everyone else seems able to. His comments on race should be incorporated fully and in context. Chuck_F hasn't been adding context, he's been deleting all of it! Reithy 10:57, Oct 28, 2004 (UTC)

Final Proof of Chuck_F's Misconduct
I changed the article on the Libertarian Party to reflect the fact that they sort of have a Congressman. Shortly thereafter, Chuck_F reverted me deleting what he would presumably have seen as a favorable reference. (It was meant as neither favorable or unfavorable). One minute later he decided to actually read what I'd written and then restored the material saying 'he didn't mean it'. . Indeed he didn't mean to delete anything he sees as favorable to the Libertarian Party. Wikipedia is being undermined by conduct like this. Reithy 00:00, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)

Request for a temporary injunction
Here we have two users who are deliberately engaged in a pattern of behavior, over a period of weeks, which is severely disrupting Wikipedia. They've both proven totally unwilling to abide by any kind of reasonable process, as their behavior on this very page demonstrates, and they've done serious damage to the accuracy and usefulness of literally dozens of at least nineteen articles. I believe that the evidence presented here is so overwhelming as to merit a temporary injunction for the purpose of restoring some semblance of order. Reithy's behavior in particular strikes me as terrible enough to merit being prevented from editing in the main namespace until a final decision is reached; something less drastic could probably be done to get a handle on Chuck.

Users supporting the request for a temporary injunction
(sign with ~ )

 * 1) RadicalSubversiv E 09:41, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Rhobite 02:53, Nov 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) pstudier 04:37, 2004 Nov 9 (UTC)
 * 4) Johnleemk | Talk 08:23, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Discussion
This request for a temporary injunction was written with no notice provided to me. I stumbled on it a moment ago. I will not respond at length at this stage other than to make my opposition clear. I require that Radicalsubversiv adduce the evidence of his claim I have done "serious damage to the accuracy and usefulness of literally dozens of articles." This is just not true. Reithy 22:49, Nov 8, 2004 (UTC)

 * Forgive me, it's just under two dozen. Revert wars are considered harmful, and Reithy and/or Chuck have had them over United States Libertarian Party, Ron Paul, Michael Badnarik, Libertarian theory, Roppongi Hills, General Motors, Temple University, Placentophagy, Libertarian capitalism, Citizens Electoral Council, Operation Days of Penitence, Libertarian capitalism, John Hospers, Theodora Nathan, Virginia Trioli, Exxon Mobil, Liberal theory of economics, FahrenHYPE 9/11, and Libertarianism. To say nothing of the countless personal attacks and vandalism along the way. RadicalSubversiv E 23:56, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Let's kick Reithy and ChuckF out of Wikipedia until the Arbcom reaches a decision — every now and then I stumble across some talk page or article that's been utterly destroyed by their edit warring. Johnleemk | Talk 08:23, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

What? I haven't even heard of 1/4th of thoese articles and I think classifying two reverst by eachs of us in a week as a revert war is a bit over the top. Chuck F 08:00, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Chuck F has been asking anyone who will listen on the IRC channel to appeal against his temporary injunction. The crux of his argument is that Gzornenplatz et al got a lesser sentence than him despite arguably larger crimes. Just thought this might be of interest. Johnleemk | Talk 18:44, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Chuck F has been ignoring his injunction and editing in articles, because he disagrees with the injunction. I'm going to try to limit my involvement in reverting and/or blocking Chuck F, but someone else should keep an eye on his edits to Libertarian capitalism, Libertarian socialism, and other articles, and decide whether they merit enforcement. Rhobite 05:56, Nov 18, 2004 (UTC)

Comments and votes by Arbitrators

 * Accept, based on POV edit warring and personal attacks; however, please request mediation and place notices of arbitration on the user talk page of each alleged sockpuppet. The notice of arbitration should include a copy of the complaint. If the requested acts are not done within a week, I will change my vote to reject. Fred Bauder 11:11, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)
 * Accept. Jwrosenzweig 14:00, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Accept in line with Fred's requests; otherwise, reject. James F. (talk) 16:27, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Accept. the Epopt 04:20, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Recuse. I have had a few altercations with this user in the past (although I think they were well justified by his flagrantly malevolent actions). Delirium 07:46, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)

Temporary injunction
Both Reithy and Chuck F and any sockpuppets are to edit only on their respective arbcom case [and their own user and user talk pages] and Arbitration Committee Elections December 2004. Edits to the mainspace may be reverted on sight. The change to this injunction is supported by the votes of 4 out of 9 arbitrators of whom 2 have abstained, see Requests_for_arbitration/Reithy/Proposed_decision, thus a majority of those voting support the amendment. Fred Bauder 13:36, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)

Aye:
 * 1) →Raul654 12:52, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Aye. But who is User:172.202.143.61 who was warring with Chuck F on Libertarian capitalism? Fred Bauder 13:15, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) I added [and their own user and user talk pages] mav 17:39, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) the Epopt 18:45, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) James F. (talk) 19:07, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) Martin 01:24, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) Jwrosenzweig 00:50, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC) ( To be clear, it is my understanding that this includes the current election pages -- that is, Reithy is not to edit them in any way, even to present himself as a candidate.  Those consequences may seem harsh to some, especially Reithy, but they are a result of equally important policy violations on Reithy's part. After a conversation with James Lane and careful thought, I believe Reithy should be able to post a candidate statement for the ArbCom election.)

Nay:

Abstain:

Final decision (none yet)
Due to Reithy being banned and inadequate development of the case against Chuck F this case was closed December 3, 2004. The temporary injunction expires on that date due to closing of the case.

Enforcement
I have taken the liberty of blocking Reithy due to violation of both the injuction above and the community norms. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 00:44, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)


text:
Al-Mustansir

Al-Mustansir, more fully al-Mustansir billah (المستنصر بالله), is a Muslim regnal surname and may refer to:

The regnal title was used by:
 * Ma'ad al-Mustansir Billah (1029–1094), eighth Fatimid Imam-Caliph
 * Al-Mustansir Billah II (r. 1463/4–1480), 32nd Nizari imam
 * Al-Mustansir Billah III (r. 1493/4–1498), 34th Nizari imam
 * Sayf al-Dawla ibn Hud al-Mustansir (r. 1145–1146), Muslim ruler of Valencia and Murcia
 * Al-Mustansir I (1192–1242), penultimate Abbasid caliph in Baghdad from 1226 to 1242
 * Al-Mustansir II (died 1262), first Abbasid caliph of Cairo for the Mamluk Sultanate between 1261 and 1262
 * Muhammad I al-Mustansir (1228–1277), Hafsid ruler of North Africa and self-declared Caliph
 * Abu Faris Abd al-Aziz I of Morocco (r. 1366–1372), Marinid sultan of Morocco
 * Abu'l-Abbas Ahmad al-Mustansir (r. 1374–1384, 1387–1393), Marinid sultan of Morocco
 * Ghabdula Chelbir Mustansir (r. 1178–1225) was the last ruler of Volga Bulgaria

title: Al-Mustansir


text:
Live-ball era

The live-ball era, also referred to as the lively ball era, is the period in Major League Baseball which began in 1920 and continues to the present day. It contrasts with the pre-1920 period known as the "dead-ball era". The name "live-ball era" comes from the dramatic rise in offensive statistics, a direct result of a series of rule changes (introduced in 1920) that were colloquially said to have made the ball more "lively". The live-ball era was the era in which baseball regained relevance and exploded in popularity.

Dead-ball era (pre-1920)
Prior to the rule changes in 1920, the same ball would often be used throughout an entire game, only being replaced if it began to unravel. Pitchers were also allowed to deface or scuff the ball, apply foreign substances to it (such as dirt or spit), and cut into the ball with an emery board. Balls would not even be replaced after a foul ball or home run, with fans instead throwing the ball back onto the field to be re-used. As a result, the ball would become increasingly dirty and worn as the game progressed, making it difficult to see and making its movement erratic. Furthermore, the physical wear on the ball reduced its elasticity as the game progressed, making it increasingly difficult to hit for distance. These factors ultimately gave pitchers a major advantage over batters, resulting in low-scoring games.

There were also rules in force prior to 1920 that contributed to the low-scoring games. In 1901, the National League adopted the "foul-strike rule," which counted foul balls as strikes. Before this rule, batters could safely swing at many marginal pitches, which not only tired out the pitcher but also allowed for more hits because a "flukey" hit could land in play. With the introduction of the foul-strike rule, the batter had to let many more pitches "go" without being swung on, dramatically reducing the total number of hits. The American League followed suit in 1903, making the rule universal.

Rule changes
Rather than change the construction of the balls, which remained consistent between the transition from the "dead-" to "live-ball eras", rule changes were instituted around how the balls were treated. Starting in 1920, balls were replaced at the first sign of wear, resulting in a ball that was much brighter and easier for a hitter to see. Additionally, pitchers were no longer allowed to deface, scuff, or apply foreign substances to the ball, but 17 pitchers who mostly threw the spitball were allowed to throw it until they retired. The last one to legally throw it was Burleigh Grimes on September 20, 1934.

Impact of 1920 rule changes
The impact of the rule changes was felt almost immediately. In 1920, the game changed from typically low-scoring to high-scoring games, with a newfound reliance on the home run. That year, Babe Ruth set a record for slugging percentage and hit 54 home runs (smashing his old record of 29). Aiding in Ruth's success was that he held the bat lower and swung with an uppercut, essentially trying to hit home runs. His 54 home runs in 1920 were a total greater than 14 of the other 15 teams at the time, and it nearly tripled fellow slugger George Sisler's second-highest total of 19 that season. Seeing his success (and his popularity that followed), young players who debuted in the 1920s, including Lou Gehrig and Mel Ott, followed Ruth's example. The home run has been a significant part of baseball since. Ruth broke his own record in 1921, hitting 59 home runs; six years later, he passed his own mark once again by hitting 60 home runs, a single-season record that stood for 34 years.

While the rule changes instituted in 1920 were a major factor in the increased scoring and number of home runs seen in Major League Baseball, established sluggers who had been successful prior to 1920 (including Sisler, Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker) were able to maintain their previous successful hitting styles into the 1920s. Such success is attributed to Sisler (and others) choking up on the bat, resulting in fewer strikeouts and more doubles. In 1920, George Sisler also set his long-standing record of 257 hits in a single season, which would not be eclipsed until 84 years later in 2004 when the Seattle Mariners' Ichiro Suzuki hit 262.

The live-ball era also had a lasting impact on pitchers. Between 1910 and 1920, the last decade of the dead-ball era, eight pitchers had 30-win seasons. Since the beginning of the 1921 season, the first full season of the live-ball era, only three pitchers have had 30-win seasons: Lefty Grove in 1931; Dizzy Dean in 1934; and Denny McLain in 1968.

title: Live-ball era


text: File:Meredith Brooks - Deconstruction.jpg


text: File:Meredith Brooks - Bad Bad One.jpg

title: File:Meredith Brooks - Bad Bad One.jpg


text:
Talk:Prettyprint

Unreadable
3 isn't unreadable; just look out for semicolons rather than new lines. lysdexia 04:59, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Then let's change it so it doesn't say "unreadable". I've done so. Dysprosia 09:34, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It's not malformed either; it's a single logical unit of code which happens to fit on one reasonably-short line; therefore it is not unreasonable to keep it as one line. I've changed it to "another style which some might find less easy to read".

I removed the section on Wiki formatting, because text formatting as done by the Wiki, or by Tex or a Web browser, is not normally called pretty-printing. --Macrakis 02:34, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * It is not nomally called prettyprinting, but it is prettyprinting by definition and a prime example of it. Dysprosia 13:50, 13 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * We apparently disagree on the definition of pretty-printing, then. As I have always understood it, pretty-printing refers to making the structure of an object explicit in its layout.  So it is all about structured objects like programming language texts, mathematical formulae, chemical structures, etc.  Laying out paragraphs by hyphenating, justifying text, avoiding widow and orphan lines, inserting headers and footers with titles and page numbers, generating tables of contents and indexing, etc. does not fit into that definition -- although formatting section headings does.  Since you agree that text formatting is "not normally called prettyprinting", it would seem to me more appropriate to cross-reference it as "related" rather than including it in this article.  Of course, there is some overlap (e.g. splitting formulae over multiple lines) and some pretty-printers also do things like generate function indexes etc., but I would argue that that is not the core pretty-printing functionality.  --Macrakis 15:09, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * No, I'm saying by the definition in the article, it may be not normally called prettyprinting, but it is prettyprinting nonetheless.
 * In any case, WYSYWIG word processing is not prettyprinting because there is no active improvement of layout.
 * However, wiki syntax or TeX is prettyprinting, because it is making a document's structure easier to perceive. Formatting does reflect structure (consider the bold formatting of the title text or synonyms thereof in Wiki articles, this tells us what the article is to deal with, for example). Don Knuth in The TeXbook said himself that TeX permits macro formatting of text precisely to make the applicability of style to structure simple. Dysprosia 07:38, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Now I am completely confused about your definition of pretty-printing. Why is it pretty-printing if done offline but not when done online, in real time?  Anyway, even if you consider text formatting to be pretty-printing in some technical sense, if it is "not normally called" prettyprinting, then I'd conclude that it's a bad idea to use it as an example of pretty-printing.  It's a little like using a tomato as an example of a fruit -- yes, it is technically a fruit, but it is not a prototypical fruit. --Macrakis 15:41, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I'm confused about what you think my definition is. I am using the article's definition: "to present an object in such a way a to make its structure easier to perceive for to a human reader". Certain examples of text formatting such as Wiki or TeX formatting is prettyprinting since it is making a document's structure easier to perceive for a human reader.
 * Yes, you call a tomato a fruit, but you list it on the "List of fruits" and you may even want to make special note of its fruity status. You don't leave it off the List of fruits altogether. Dysprosia 23:03, 17 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Tex
Should we mention TeX or LaTeX, or one of the similar programs? --Whiteknight 02:56, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

What programming language is the example in?
I am a highschool JAVA student and it looks to me like JAVA but...I can't tell...

 * C. Dysprosia 09:21, 30 May 2005 (UTC)

Commercial packages
Would it be sensible to mention commercial packages here? e.g. SourceStyler, PolyStyle, SourceFormatX and StyleManager. I'm not sure of the etiquette on Wikipedia on linking to non-free resources (it could be considered advertising). In the interests of full disclosure it's fair to point out I work for ProFactor who product StyleManager, hence I think it wise I check before suggesting these links! TheMoog 15:06, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

 * My understanding of Wikipedia policy is that links to commercial resources are fine, as long as they respect the same quality standards as other links. In particular, not only should the site be informative, but if it is a product site, it should be a notable product, not (for example) a recent start-up or a company with a tiny market share. --Macrakis 15:34, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

 * Now a year on and I hope nobody minds if I link our product here too - I don't know our own market share but our product has been out and selling happily for over a year now, so I'd like to think we meet the requirements. As far as notable, we are the one of the only remaining actively developed source code formatting packages so I think that makes us noteworthy (compare the build dates and versions of the other commercial offerings). TheMoog 22:06, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I believe mention of commercial packages is appropriate here, since the topic itself is not inherently restricted to open source software. I disagree with the anonymous action of a year ago where someone deleted references to commercial software, and if there is a Wikipedia policy statement on this, someone please post it below. Moreover, if a commercial package is robust, actively supported, and has a user community, it has more weight than a one-man project on sourceforge which is still in "alpha" release. Some of the open source projects mentioned in the article are stale or abandoned, and the better-known packages ought to receive mention. Censoring mention of a commercial product simply because it is commercial or "non-free" is still censorship. On the other hand, start-up products less than a year old should have a one-year delay before posting links to them. EricP (talk) 23:25, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Pretty Printing vs Code Beautification
I always thought these were two separate things. Code beautification actually changes the source code, i.e. its ASCII representation -- usually by changing indentation and line breaking (i.e. fiddle round with whitespace). Pretty printing does not leave you with ASCII or change the indentation or line-breaking (or do any insertion, deletion or alterations of characters), but rather changes the typeface, weight, slant and/or colour of bits of text in a way that corresponds to the lexical/grammatical structure of the language. So it leaves you with some kind of rich text representation designed for easy human reading on-screen or in hardcopy form. That's just how I always interpreted these terms -- am I wrong? --Russell E 03:07, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

You're right. It's obvious, ironically from the article itself, that code beautification and 'pretty print' are two different things. This needs to be cleared up. Code beautification should have its own page. --Daydreamer302000 (talk) 09:50, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Actually there are three aspects mixed together: (a) modifying a program's source to present it in a more readable form but not necessarily intended for further editing, (b) modifying a program's source to make it more readable - but still editable, and (c) showing a program's source in a more readable way without modifying it at all. Normally pretty-printing is just the first.  Mixing indent with it is typically done by people unfamiliar with the topic. Tedickey (talk) 23:32, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

Virtual Formatting
I've added a paragraph on Virtual Formatting, because it seems both an obvious and significant alternative to using whitespace for formatting code in certain circumstances. I should declare a self-interest in that my company produces a virtual formatting XML tool. I've been advised by others that there are examples of virtual formatting tools around, but I've had no success in tracking one down to use as an example. Phil Fearon (talk) 10:40, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

 * But then WP:Notability isn't met TEDickey (talk) 10:47, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Yes, that was a concern, but now I now realize that Internet Explorer, Firefox and Chrome use virtual formatting to render XML, so so I'll include one of them as a reference, hopefully they meet notability requirements? Phil Fearon (talk) 13:27, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

 * Do you have any WP:RS pointing out that they use this term, in a manner consistent with your definition? I've found none.  Googling on it finds only random unrelated uses.  Without that, it's WP:OR TEDickey (talk) 20:46, 19 August 2011 (UTC)

Agreed, the term is not in common use, thank you for highlighting WP:OR. Because of this, I don't see a way of adding balance to the impression the article's samples and referenced items give, I'll just remove the heading and para and admit defeat. Phil Fearon (talk) 22:12, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

 * Thanks TEDickey (talk) 22:16, 20 August 2011 (UTC)

Code examples
Note on the code examples: the function has return type "int," but the example code does not return any value. I therefore suggest that you change the function to return type "void." 216.98.223.200 (talk) 20:58, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

Security of Online beautifiers
I proposed a warn concerning Online beautifiers that can be found on the Web. Please wikify it. --Nbrouard (talk) 08:37, 27 March 2009 (UTC)

Origin of term
Anyone have any idea on where/when it was coined/ first used? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Mhdante (talk • contribs) 06:56, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

I first came across the term - not the concept - in that Pascal prettyprinter that was in Pascal with Style.

I wonder if we need a separate page for SOAP - the Algol60 pretty printer (and derivations for other languages that followed). I don't believe it is mentioned anywhere on wikipedia currently. http://www.gtoal.com/languages/algol60/KDF9/SOAP%20description%20and%20Algol60%20source%20-%20CCU6.pdf http://www.gtoal.com/languages/algol60/KDF9/soap.a60 https://academic.oup.com/comjnl/article/14/2/133/349727 https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/spe.4380030105 http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/archive/os/emas/users/ecslib/emas-a/impis-unpacked/soapdoc.txt http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/archive/os/emas/users/ecslib/emas-a/impis-unpacked/soaps.txt http://history.dcs.ed.ac.uk/archive/os/emas/emas2/compilers/imputils/soap80/soap80s.imp.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.243.100.168 (talk) 16:21, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the pointer. There are references to multiple documents about SOAP in the External links section of the current article, but no discussion in the main text. Since there is no standard parsed form of Algol (as there is with Lisp), it seems that SOAP had to parse the program for itself. Since it performs a single pass and outputs one line at a time, it appears that it does no global optimization of the layout, unlike Gosper's grindef, which is roughly contemporary.
 * I don't see any reason for a separate article on SOAP, but it surely deserves a sentence or two in this article. --Macrakis (talk) 17:03, 29 August 2020 (UTC)
 * PS The links to SOAP have been in the article for at least 10 years -- see . --Macrakis (talk) 17:07, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Prettyprint


text:
Al-Musta'sim

Abu Ahmad Abdallah ibn al-Mustansir bi'llah (أبو أحمد عبد الله بن المستنصر بالله), better known by his regnal title Al-Mustaʿṣim bi-llāh (المستعصم بالله; 1213 – 20 February 1258), was the 37th and last caliph from the Abbasid dynasty ruling from Baghdad. He held the title from 1242 until his death in 1258.

Biography
Abu Ahmad Abdallah (future caliph Al-Musta'sim) was a son of the Abbasid caliph al-Mustansir, and his mother was Hajir. He was born in 1213. After the death of his father, al-Musta'sim succeeded to the throne in late 1242.

He is noted for his opposition to the rise of Shajar al-Durr to the Egyptian throne during the Seventh Crusade. He sent a message from Baghdad to the Mamluks in Egypt that said: "If you do not have men there tell us so we can send you men." However, al-Musta'sim had to face the greatest menace against the caliphate since its establishment in 632: the invasion of the Mongol forces that, under Hulagu Khan, had already wiped out any resistance in Transoxiana and Khorasan. Shortly thereafter, in 1255-1256, Hulagu Khan forced the Abbasid Caliphate to lend him their forces for his campaign against the Alamut region in modern-day Iran.

News of the murder of al-Muazzam Turanshah and the inauguration of Shajar al-Durr as the new Sultan reached Syria. The Syrian Emirs were asked to pay homage to Shajar al-Durr but they refused and the Sultan's deputy in Al Karak rebelled against Cairo. The Syrian Emirs in Damascus gave the city to an-Nasir Yusuf the Ayyubid Emir of Aleppo and the Mamluks in Cairo responded by arresting the Emirs who were loyal to the Ayyubids in Egypt. In addition to the Ayyubids in Syria, the Abbasid caliph al-Musta'sim in Baghdad also rejected the Mamluk move in Egypt and refused to recognize Shajar al-Dur as a Sultan. The refusal of the Caliph to recognize Shajar al-Durr as the new Sultan was a great setback to the Mamluks in Egypt as the custom during the Ayyubid era was that the Sultan could gain legitimacy only through the recognition of the Abbasid Caliph. The Mamluks, therefore, decided to install Izz al-Din Aybak as a new Sultan. He married Shajar al-Durr who abdicated and passed the throne to him after she had ruled Egypt as sultan for about three months. Though the period of Shajar al-Durr's rule as a sultan was of short duration, it witnessed two important events in history: one, the expelling of Louis IX from Egypt, which marked the end of the Crusaders' ambition to conquer the southern Mediterranean basin; and two, the death of the Ayyubid dynasty and the birth of the Mamluk state which dominated the southern Mediterranean for decades.

To please the Caliph and secure his recognition, Aybak announced that he was merely a representative of the Abbasid Caliph in Baghdad. To placate the Ayyubids in Syria the Mamluks nominated an Ayyubid child named al-Sharaf Musa as a co-sultan. But this did not satisfy the Ayyubids and armed conflicts between the Mamluks and the Ayyubids broke out. The Caliph in Baghdad, preoccupied with the Mongols who were raiding territories not far from his capital, preferred to see the matter settled peacefully between the Mamluks in Egypt and the Ayyubids in Syria. Through negotiation and mediation of the Caliph that followed the bloody conflict, the Mamluks who manifested military superiority reached an agreement with the Ayyubids that gave them control over southern Palestine including Gaza and Jerusalem and the Syrian coast. By this agreement the Mamluks not only added new territories to their dominion but also gained recognition for their rule.

In 1258, Hulagu invaded the Abbasid domain, which then consisted of only Baghdad, its immediate surroundings, and southern Iraq. In his campaign to conquer Baghdad, Hulagu Khan had several columns advance simultaneously on the city, and laid siege to it. The Mongols kept the people of Abbasid Caliphate in their capital and executed those who tried to flee.

Baghdad was sacked on 10 February and the caliph was killed by Hulagu Khan soon afterward. It is reckoned that the Mongols did not want to shed "royal blood", so they wrapped him in a rug and trampled him to death with their horses. Some of his sons were massacred as well. One of the surviving sons was sent as a prisoner to Mongolia, where Mongolian historians report he married and fathered children, but played no role in Islam thereafter.

The Travels of Marco Polo reports that upon finding the caliph's great stores of treasure which could have been spent on the defense of his realm, Hulagu Khan locked him in his treasure room without food or water, telling him "eat of thy treasure as much as thou wilt, since thou art so fond of it."

Siege of Baghdad

Hulagu sent word to al-Musta'sim, demanding his acquiescence to the terms imposed by Möngke. Al-Musta'sim refused, in large part due to the influence of his advisor and grand vizier, Ibn al-Alkami. Historians have ascribed various motives to Ibn al-Alkami's opposition to submission, including treachery and incompetence, and it appears that he lied to the caliph about the severity of the invasion, assuring al-Musta'sim that, if the capital of the caliphate was endangered by a Mongol army, the Islamic world would rush to its aid.

Although he replied to Hulagu's demands in a manner that the Mongol commander found menacing and offensive enough to break off further negotiation, al-Musta'sim neglected to summon armies to reinforce the troops at his disposal in Baghdad. Nor did he strengthen the city's walls. By 11 January, the Mongols were close to the city, establishing themselves on both banks of the Tigris River so as to form a pincer around the city. Al-Musta'sim finally decided to do battle with them and sent out a force of 20,000 cavalry to attack the Mongols. The cavalry were decisively defeated by the Mongols, whose sappers breached dikes along the Tigris River and flooded the ground behind the Abbasid forces, trapping them.

Siege
The Abbasid Caliphate could supposedly call upon 50,000 soldiers for the defense of their capital, including the 20,000 cavalry under al-Musta'sim. However, these troops were assembled hastily, making them poorly equipped and disciplined. Although the caliph technically had the authority to summon soldiers from other sultanates (caliphate's deputy states) to defence, he neglected to do so. His taunting opposition had lost him the loyalty of the Mamluks, and the Syrian emirs, whom he supported, were busy preparing their own defenses.

On 29 January, the Mongol army began its siege of Baghdad, constructing a palisade and a ditch around the city. Employing siege engines and catapults, the Mongols attempted to breach the city's walls, and, by 5 February, had seized a significant portion of the defenses. Realizing that his forces had little chance of retaking the walls, al-Musta'sim attempted to open negotiations with Hulagu, who rebuffed the caliph. Around 3,000 of Baghdad's notables also tried to negotiate with Hulagu but were murdered.

Five days later, on 10 February, the city surrendered, but the Mongols did not enter the city until the 13th, beginning a week of massacre and destruction.

Destruction and massacre
Many historical accounts detailed the cruelties of the Mongol conquerors. Contemporary accounts state Mongol soldiers looted and then destroyed mosques, palaces, libraries, and hospitals. Priceless books from Baghdad's thirty-six public libraries were torn apart, the looters using their leather covers as sandals. Grand buildings that had been the work of generations were burned to the ground. The House of Wisdom (the Grand Library of Baghdad), containing countless precious historical documents and books on subjects ranging from medicine to astronomy, was destroyed. Claims have been made that the Tigris ran red from the blood of the scientists and philosophers killed. Citizens attempted to flee, but were intercepted by Mongol soldiers who killed in abundance, sparing no one, not even children.

The caliph al-Musta'sim was captured and forced to watch as his citizens were murdered and his treasury plundered. According to most accounts, the caliph was killed by trampling. The Mongols rolled the caliph up in a rug, and rode their horses over him, as they believed that the earth would be offended if it were touched by royal blood. All but one of al-Musta'sim's sons were killed, and the sole surviving son was sent to Mongolia, where Mongolian historians report he married and fathered children, but played no role in Islam thereafter.

Hulagu had to move his camp upwind of the city, due to the stench of decay from the ruined city.

Baghdad was a depopulated, ruined city for several decades and only gradually recovered some of its former glory. The historian David Morgan has quoted Wassaf (who himself was born 7 years after the razing of the city in 1265) describing the destruction: "They swept through the city like hungry falcons attacking a flight of doves, or like raging wolves attacking sheep, with loose reins and shameless faces, murdering and spreading terror...beds and cushions made of gold and encrusted with jewels were cut to pieces with knives and torn to shreds. Those hiding behind the veils of the great Harem were dragged...through the streets and alleys, each of them becoming a plaything...as the population died at the hands of the invaders."

Aftermath
Hulagu left 3,000 Mongol soldiers behind to rebuild Baghdad. Ata-Malik Juvayni was later appointed governor of Baghdad, Lower Mesopotamia, and Khuzistan after Guo Kan went back to the Yuan dynasty to assist Kublai's conquest over the Song dynasty. Hulagu's Nestorian Christian wife, Dokuz Khatun, successfully interceded to spare the lives of Baghdad's Christian inhabitants. Hulagu offered the royal palace to the Nestorian Catholicos Mar Makikha, and ordered a cathedral to be built for him.

Initially, the fall of Baghdad came as a shock to the whole Muslim world; after many years of utter devastation, the city became an economic center where international trade, the minting of coins and religious affairs flourished under the Ilkhans. The chief Mongol darughachi was thereafter stationed in the city.

Berke, who had converted to Islam in 1252, became enraged that Hulagu destroyed Baghdad. Muslim historian Rashid al Din quoted Berke Khan as sending the following message to Mongke Khan, protesting the attack on Baghdad, (not knowing Mongke had died in China): "He (Hulagu) has sacked all the cities of the Muslims. With the help of God I will call him to account for so much innocent blood."

Although hesitant at first to go to war with Hulagu out of Mongol brotherhood, the economic situation of the Golden Horde led him to declare war against the Ilkhanate. This became known as the Berke–Hulagu war.

Legacy
Al-Musta'sim ruled from 5 December 1242 to 20 February 1258, for a period of 15 years, 2 months and 15 days. His death marked the final end of the caliphate as a political and religious entity. The Mamluk Sultans of Egypt and Syria later appointed an Abbasid prince as caliph of Cairo, but these Mamluk Abbasid caliphs were marginalized and merely symbolic, with no temporal power and little religious influence. Even though they kept the title for about 250 years more, other than installing the Sultan in ceremonies, these caliphs had little importance. After the Ottomans conquered Egypt in 1517, the caliph of Cairo, al-Mutawakkil III was transported to Constantinople.

title: Al-Musta'sim


text: File:Meredith Brooks - See It Through My Eyes.jpg


text:
Blurring the Edges

Blurring the Edges is the second studio album by American singer-songwriter Meredith Brooks. It was released on May 6, 1997, by Capitol Records. Following the release of her self-titled debut studio album (1986) and her departure from the short-lived band the Graces, Brooks temporarily retired from the music industry. Uninterested in the cynicism of grunge music that reigned in the early nineties, Brooks became re-inspired to write music with a more positive message. Brooks co-wrote the album with her friend Shelly Peiken, with further songwriting contributions from Larry Dvoskin, Christopher Ward, Stan Lynch, John Corey, Kevin Dukes, and Tom DeLuca. Brooks enlisted David Ricketts to produce the effort, with Geza X helming production on a single song.

Music critics were divided in their opinions of Blurring the Edges. Some critics praised Brooks's lyricism and hooks, while others believed that the album tread familiar grounds. Many critics also compared Brooks to her contemporaries, Alanis Morissette and Sheryl Crow. Blurring the Edges was a commercial success. In the United States, the album peaked at number 22 on the Billboard 200 album chart and was certified Platinum by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA). The album was also certified Gold in the United Kingdom and received a multi-platinum certification in Canada. Blurring the Edges has sold over three million copies worldwide.

The album was supported by four singles. The album's lead single, "Bitch," was an international commercial success, reaching the top twenty in 16 countries. The song was certified Gold in New Zealand, Norway, the United Kingdom, and the United States, while receiving a Platinum certification in Australia. As a result of the song's success, Brooks is often cited as a one-hit wonder. Follow-up singles "What Would Happen" and "Stop" achieved moderate commercial success in the United States, while "I Need" had little commercial impact. To further promote the album, Brooks made a variety of radio and television appearances, embarked on a month-long tour, and opened for the Rolling Stones on tour.

Background
In 1986, Brooks released her self-titled debut studio album; released exclusively in Europe, the album received minimal recognition. The following year, Brooks formed the pop rock band the Graces, alongside Charlotte Caffey and Gia Ciambotti, who experienced moderate success with their 1989 single "Lay Down Your Arms". Disenchanted by the music industry due to the rise in success of the grunge genre, Brooks exited the group in 1991 and temporarily retired as a recording artist. Brooks explained: "I was really bored with music, to a point, during the grunge period ... I wasn't interested in being necessarily a part of that, and I wasn't finding a lot of interest for what I was writing about." However, Brooks eventually became re-inspired to go against this prevailing trend in rock music and write songs with a more positive message. Brooks began writing music with her friend, Shelly Peiken, which resulted in a song titled "Bitch". In 1995, Brooks signed to Capitol Records after her manager, Lori Leve, played "Bitch" for the record label's vice president of A&R, Perry Watts-Russell.

Recording and production
The entirety of the album—sans "Bitch"—was recorded at the Salt Mines and Alpha Studios in Hollywood and Burbank, respectively, and produced by David Ricketts. "Bitch" was recorded at City Lab Sound Design in Hollywood, whilst production on the track was helmed by Geza X. Influenced by guitarists such as Eric Clapton, Lindsey Buckingham, and James Honeyman-Scott, Brooks set out to play lead guitar throughout the entirety of the album. Brooks claimed that Chrissie Hynde was the album's strongest influence and that she was fearful people would view Blurring the Edges as an imitation of Hynde's work. Brooks cited "Pollyanne," a song about expressing positivity when faced with a cynical partner, as most illustrative of her mindset at the time of writing the album.

Music and lyrics
Brooks described the overall theme of the album as about resurrection. "My Little Town" was inspired by Brooks' experience growing up and moving away from her hometown of Corvallis, Oregon. "Shatter" has a theme of nonconformity, which was inspired by Brooks' efforts to create a record that aligns with her own vision and to not give in to pressures by music industry officials.

Release and promotion
Blurring the Edges was first released on May 6, 1997 in the United States. Promotion for the album began in April 1997, where Brooks performed across the country at small venues to introduce herself to new audiences. The vice president of marketing at Capitol Records, Steve Rosenblatt, explained: "We're going to send [Brooks] around the country and set up little events where it'll just be Meredith and her music, where she can talk to people and talk about her songs, and then play her songs in a very intimate setting." To further promote the album, Brooks embarked on a month-long tour that commenced on August 3 in her hometown of Portland, Oregon. This tour included several stops at the Lilith Fair tour. A recorded performance of "Wash My Hands" was later included on the live album Lilith Fair: A Celebration of Women in Music (1998). In September 1997, Brooks opened for the MTV Video Music Awards through a webcast. This performance marked the first ever multi-camera webcast and was the first time MTV live streamed audio and video. In July 1997, Brooks paid promotional visits to the United Kingdom and Germany, with further performances throughout Europe in September. In 1998, Brooks was an opening act for the Rolling Stones on their Bridges to Babylon Tour. After playing two songs from her ten-song set, the crowd began to boo and threw bottles, batteries, and coins at her.

"Wash My Hands" was intended as the lead single from the album, before it was replaced with "Bitch".

On January 20, 2023, an expanded edition of Blurring the Edges was released in celebration of the album's 25th anniversary.

Critical reception
Stephen Thomas Erlewine of AllMusic compared Brooks to Alanis Morissette, stating that "Blurring the Edges isn't necessarily a bad album -- Brooks is a competent melodicist and her lyrics are occasionally promising -- yet it isn't a distinctive one." Steven Mirkin of Entertainment Weekly similarly noted that the album touches on familiar material, specifically comparing it to Sheryl Crow's Tuesday Night Music Club (1993). However, Mirkin went on to praise the album as "leavened with hooks and humor and a refreshing, unself-conscious swagger." In a more critical review, Paul Verna of Billboard referred to Brooks as an Alanis Morissette imitator, commenting that "[Brooks'] ample writing and performing talents are underserved by her tendency to follow rather than lead."

Mala Mortensa of Alternative Press noted "Bitch" as a highlight from the album. She further discussed the album's influence, stating, "[t]he alt-rock showcase was a stunning showcase of the 'bad bitch' mentality that largely defines the alternative scene. No doubt, [Brooks'] fiery energy has inspired many aspiring women to date."

Commercial performance
In the United States, Blurring the Edges debuted at number 25 on the US Billboard 200 for the chart dated May 24, 1997. The album reached its peak position of number 22 the following week and ultimately spent 47 weeks on the chart, with its final appearance being on the chart dated April 11, 1998. On the year-end chart for 1997, Blurring the Edges reached a position of number 83. The Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA) certified the album Platinum, which denotes one million album-equivalent units.

Personnel
Credits are adapted from the liner notes of Blurring the Edges.

Musicians
 * Meredith Brooks – guitar, lead vocals
 * Paul Bushnell – bass guitar
 * Jim Ebert – synthesizer, bass guitar
 * Josh Freese – drums
 * Victoria Levy – background vocals
 * David Ricketts – bass guitar, keyboards
 * Jimmy Woods – harmonica
 * Nick Drapela – rhythm guitar

Artwork
 * David Lair – design
 * Tommy Steele – art direction
 * John Dunne, Shelly Peiken, Robert Zuckerman – photography

Production
 * Geza X – record producer, engineer
 * David Ricketts – producer
 * Jim Ebert – engineering, mixing
 * S. "Husky" Hoskulds, Mauricio Iragorri, Cappy Japngie, Charles Nasser – assistant engineers
 * Bob Ludwig – mastering
 * Jim Ebert, Geza X, David Ricketts – programming

title: Blurring the Edges


text:
Talk:Thorny devil

The names of species, incl. in the title of this article
All of the names of SPECIES are common nouns, and they do not contain any words that are capitalizes -- except for some words that were proper nouns already. Otherwise, the words are not capitalized unless they fall at the beginning of a sentence or a title. Hence, use "Thorny devil" for the title of the article, and "thorny devil" within the text of the article. For some examples of names that are common nouns all the way: albatross, blue whale, camel, chimpanzee, crocodile, elephant, emperor penguin, eucalyptus, fox, gorilla, grizzly bear, hawk, hedgehog, impala, jackrabbit, kangaroo, kukaburra, leopard seal, llama, mongoose, newt, orangutan, octopus, platypus, polar bear, raccoon, robbin, seahawk, stork, vampire bat, wildebeest, wombat, yak, zebra.

For some examples of names that contain proper nouns: Andean condor, Burbank potato, California condor, Cape buffalo, Douglas fir, Japanese beetle, Norwegian spruce,     Pacific bottlenose dolphin, Siberian wolf, Tasmanian devil, and Thompson's gazelle. Stick with the plan and it is not hard to do. 98.67.163.16 (talk) 19:42, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

In the Central area of the Australian bush, circling Alice Springs really, these creatures are commonly known as "mountain devils". I lived there from 1954 and never heard them called anything else. As it seems that is the ONLY place they live, is not the name used locally likely to be the right one? Google can carry many false named things or animals or anything really. Number of hits I see as irrelevant, it's what people who see and play with them who know their name.

I'm surprised that no mention seems to have been made to the feel of the underside of these lovely lizards. Put one in your hand and it's feet are so tender and soft. The belly et al is also soft and not thorny at all. They feel wonderful to touch, pleasant feeling, so tender yet on top they appear fearsome. Only to ants.

Mention is made of a "false head" on the top of it's head. A barrel shaped object. I always knew it as their water supply, a place to store water much as camels do.

Any interest in Trilobyte's. Found them in Alice Springs in about 1960. They too appear to have a number of names.

Name of the species
We should probably swap this article, and its redirect, from "thorny devil", which I think is the more commonly used name... thorny devil, thorny lizard, thorny dragon are all common names that refer to this lizard.

Important Question
I was watching a show called "The Venom Cure" on PBS, and I saw a lizard in the opening credits that looked like this, but it was extra blue. Is it the same thing, or another type entirely? I can't find it anywhere. It caught my eye because it looked like a Dialga, from Pokemon. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.204.192.141 (talk) 21:31, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

Requested move 10 August 2017

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved  Dr Strauss   talk   16:42, 29 August 2017 (UTC)

Thorny dragon → Thorny devil – Thorny devil is a much more common name for the lizard than thorny dragon. 124.171.71.97 (talk) 23:48, 10 August 2017 (UTC) --Relisting. — usernamekiran (talk)  03:11, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Oppose. No evidence offered, and two quick googles indicate that the current name is more common, I get 290,000 ghits for the current name vs 94,000 for the proposed. Andrewa (talk) 00:06, 18 August 2017 (UTC)
 * are results location-based? Opening your links, I'm seeing 46,000 hits for the first search (dragon) and 88,300 for the second (devil). – Rhinopias (talk) 20:16, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Interesting... Location does affect the rankings but I'm surprised if it affects the total number of ghits. Try https://www.google.com.au/search?q="thorny+dragon"+australia+lizard+-wikipedia and https://www.google.com.au/search?q="thorny+devil"+australia+lizard+-wikipedia which are the same links but stripped of some parameters Google added, and which give me the same results. Andrewa (talk) 22:14, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Now I'm seeing your numbers but both are a few thousand higher. However, if you add "-devil" to the dragon search it decreases the hits to 63,200 for me. I wondered how many of those 300,000 results still primarily called the species thorny devil but just mentioned thorny dragon. (Not to mention this reddit result was on the first page and isn't even the right animal. How many websites like this got "thorny dragon" from this Wikipedia article that's been named as such since 2013?) Also, I'm very curious how this site ended up on the 2nd page of the thorny dragon search results when it does not have the phrase "thorny dragon" on the page, just mentions of the family which are called dragons. – Rhinopias (talk) 01:15, 22 August 2017 (UTC)

 * comment as an uninvolved party: if there is any evidence/source for supporting to request, it is suggested it should be presented here. Best, — usernamekiran (talk)  03:13, 19 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Support per article's unnecessary rename in 2013 and its current sources and links. The article was with  a couple of hours later. The article was  in 2005. In January 2013 it was  in order, Agamidae, which are collectively called dragons.
 * This move shouldn't have been made as the species is overwhelmingly referred to as thorny devil. This Australian paper, this UT site—along with a few references at the bottom, including this paper—, another Australian paper, this UT database, and this Australian site, all used in the article, exclusively use the common name thorny devil. This reference primarily uses thorny devil but mentions thorny dragon and three others. These two articles referenced (1 and 2) use only the binomial. Additionally, I found this BBC documentary, Wired article, and two Australian sites (1 and 2) that use thorny devil. Searching for "thorny devil" australia -wikipedia gave me 110,000 hits while "thorny dragon" australia -wikipedia gave me 51,300. – Rhinopias (talk) 18:05, 20 August 2017 (UTC)
 * I get 130,000 and 62,200 which is consistent, and IMO means that based on those searches it's too close to call. Andrewa (talk) 22:23, 21 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Support, although I'd rather see this just moved to Moloch horridus to avoid petty squabbles over which vernacular name is the common name; there's no evidence readers have any trouble finding articles at scientific name title from vernacular name searches when appropriate redirects are in place. Thorny devil does seem to be more commonly used than thorny dragon, and it's absolutely not Wikipedia's job to reject a more commonly used vernacular name in favor of a less commonly used one in order to achieve standardization. Plantdrew (talk) 20:49, 25 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Support. The proposed title is several times more common on Google Books ( vs. ) and Google News ( vs. ) which supports the claims above that it is the WP:COMMONNAME in the sources.--Cúchullain t/ c 19:06, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Semi-protected edit request on 30 October 2021
Add "The amount of water needed to fill the skin capillary system is only 3.19% of its body mass, which is insufficient for drinking needs." to the Diet section after the last sentence in the last paragraph. Sinigangangg (talk) 01:59, 30 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 02:04, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Thorny devil


text:
Talk:Blurring the Edges

Music Week review not sourced
The Music Week PDF which is listed as a review doesn't actually have a review anywhere in the linked PDF. I am doubtful that it is a real review. 76.169.85.58 (talk) 00:48, 22 July 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Blurring the Edges


text:
See It Through My Eyes

See It Through My Eyes is the reissue of American singer-songwriter Meredith Brooks' self-titled debut studio album. Originally released in 1986 as Meredith Brooks by Ariola, the album was reissued on November 11, 1997, by Bizarre Planet Entertainment. The record label intended to capitalize on Brooks' newfound success following the release of her second album, Blurring the Edges (1997).

Background
Recorded in 1984, the album was originally released as Meredith Brooks in 1986 by Ariola Records. It was released exclusively in Europe and received minimal recognition. In an effort to capitalize on Brooks' newfound success following Blurring the Edges, Bizarre Planet Entertainment reissued the album in November 1997 under the title See It Through My Eyes.

Critical reception
See It Through My Eyes received generally unfavorable critical reception. AllMusic assigned the album a two star rating out of five. David Browne of Entertainment Weekly referred to the album as the "spandex-clad skeleton in [Brooks'] closet," further stating that the songs are "blatant rip-offs of ’80s hits."

Personnel

 * Meredith Brooks – guitar, vocals
 * Bob Burns – drums
 * William Burns – bass guitar, vocals
 * Robert Miranda – guitar
 * David Perry – guitar, keyboards

Production

 * Producers: David Perry, Jack Robinson
 * Engineer: David Perry
 * Mastering: Herb Jung
 * Photography: Robert Duffey

title: See It Through My Eyes


text:
BL Lacertae

BL Lacertae or BL Lac is a highly variable, extragalactic active galactic nucleus (AGN or active galaxy). It was first discovered by Cuno Hoffmeister in 1929, but was originally thought to be an irregular variable star in the Milky Way galaxy and so was given a variable star designation. In 1968, the "star" was identified by John Schmitt at the David Dunlap Observatory as a bright, variable radio source. A faint trace of a host galaxy was also found. In 1974, Oke and Gunn measured the redshift of BL Lacertae as z = 0.07, corresponding to a recession velocity of 21,000 km/s with respect to the Milky Way. The redshift figure implies that the object lies at a distance of 900 million light years.

Due to its early discovery, BL Lacertae became the prototype and namesake of the class of active galactic nuclei known as "BL Lacertae objects" or "BL Lac objects". This class is distinguished by rapid and high-amplitude brightness variations and by optical spectra devoid (or nearly devoid) of the broad emission lines characteristic of quasars. These characteristics are understood to result from relativistic beaming of emission from a jet of plasma ejected from the vicinity of a supermassive black hole. BL Lac objects are also categorized as a type of blazar.

BL Lacertae changes in apparent magnitude over fairly small time periods, typically between values of 14 and 17. In January 2021, it exhibited extreme flaring behavior and was reported to reach magnitude 11.45 in the R filter band.

title: BL Lacertae


text:
User talk:Sizzlingsteaks

Hi. Welcome to Wikipedia. Please don't sign your articles. They belong to everybody. RickK 05:14, Oct 22, 2004 (UTC)

January 2010
Welcome to Wikipedia. The recent edit that you made to the page Christina Chan has been reverted, as it appears to be unconstructive. Please use the sandbox for testing any edits; if you believe the edit was constructive, please ensure that you provide an informative edit summary. You may also wish to read the introduction to editing for further information. Thank you. Thejadefalcon Sing your song The bird's seeds 22:47, 11 January 2010 (UTC)

title: User talk:Sizzlingsteaks


text:
User:Aristotle334

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Scripps Research Institute Green economics Socially responsible investing

Urban Planning
Urban Studies Urban Planning Regional Planning New Urbanism New Town Built Environment Urban Design Urbanization

Linear City Zoning Urban Sprawl

Urban Growth Boundary Brownfield Land Greenfield Land Green Belt Open Space Terminating Vista

Urban Studies and Planning List of Planned Cities Urban Planner List of Urban Planners

Cities
List of cities of the United States

Arctic or Subarctic area

 * humid type : Tundra

Subarctic and Boreal area

 * humid type: taiga or boreal forest

Temperate cold

 * humid type : Temperate broadleaf and mixed forests, Temperate coniferous forests

Temperate warm or sub-tropical

 * humid: subtropical moist broadleaf forest
 * semi-humid: Subtropical dry broadleaf forests, Subtropical coniferous forests
 * semi-arid: Mediterranean forests, woodlands, and shrub, Temperate grasslands, savannas, and shrublands
 * Arid: Temperate deserts and xeric shrublands

Tropical

 * humid area : Tropical forest or Rainforest
 * Semi-arid area : Tropical Grasslands -- Tropical Savannas
 * Arid area : Desert

Aquatic

 * continental shelf
 * littoral
 * riparian
 * pond
 * lake
 * coral reef
 * kelp forest
 * pack ice
 * hydrothermal vents
 * cold seeps
 * benthic zone
 * pelagic zone

title: User:Aristotle334


text: Talk:See It Through My Eyes

title: Talk:See It Through My Eyes