text:
Compound steam engine

A compound steam engine unit is a type of steam engine where steam is expanded in two or more stages. A typical arrangement for a compound engine is that the steam is first expanded in a high-pressure (HP) cylinder, then having given up heat and losing pressure, it exhausts directly into one or more larger-volume low-pressure (LP) cylinders. Multiple-expansion engines employ additional cylinders, of progressively lower pressure, to extract further energy from the steam.

Invented in 1781, this technique was first employed on a Cornish beam engine in 1804. Around 1850, compound engines were first introduced into Lancashire textile mills.

Compound systems
There are many compound systems and configurations, but there are two basic types, according to how HP and LP piston strokes are phased and hence whether the HP exhaust is able to pass directly from HP to LP (Woolf compounds) or whether pressure fluctuation necessitates an intermediate "buffer" space in the form of a steam chest or pipe known as a receiver (receiver compounds).

In a single-expansion (or 'simple') steam engine, the high-pressure steam enters the cylinder at boiler pressure through an inlet valve. The steam pressure forces the piston down the cylinder, until the valve shuts (e.g. after 25% of the piston's stroke). After the steam supply is cut off the trapped steam continues to expand, pushing the piston to the end of its stroke, where the exhaust valve opens and expels the partially depleted steam to the atmosphere, or to a condenser. This "cut-off" allows much more work to be extracted, since the expansion of the steam is doing additional work beyond that done by the steam at boiler pressure.

An earlier cut-off increases the expansion ratio, which in principle allows more energy to be extracted and increases efficiency. Ideally, the steam would expand adiabatically, and the temperature would drop corresponding to the volume increase. However, in practice the material of the surrounding cylinder acts as a heat reservoir, cooling the steam in the earlier part of the expansion and heating it in the later part. These irreversible heat flows decrease the efficiency of the process, so that beyond a certain point, further increasing the expansion ratio would actually decrease efficiency, in addition to decreasing the mean effective pressure and thus the power of the engine.

Compounding engines
A solution to the dilemma was invented in 1804 by British engineer Arthur Woolf, who patented his Woolf high pressure compound engine in 1805. In the compound engine, high-pressure steam from the boiler first expands in a high-pressure (HP) cylinder and then enters one or more subsequent lower pressure (LP) cylinders. The complete expansion of the steam occurs across multiple cylinders and, as there is less expansion in each cylinder, the steam cools less in each cylinder, making higher expansion ratios practical and increasing the efficiency of the engine.

There are other advantages: as the temperature range is smaller, cylinder condensation is reduced. Loss due to condensation is restricted to the LP cylinder. Pressure difference is less in each cylinder so there is less steam leakage at the piston and valves. The turning moment is more uniform, so balancing is easier and a smaller flywheel may be used. Only the smaller HP cylinder needs to be built to withstand the highest pressure, which reduces the overall weight. Similarly, components are subject to less strain, so they can be lighter. The reciprocating parts of the engine are lighter, reducing the engine vibrations. The compound could be started at any point in the cycle, and in the event of mechanical failure the compound could be reset to act as a simple, and thus keep running.

To derive equal work from lower-pressure steam requires a larger cylinder volume as this steam occupies a greater volume. Therefore, the bore, and in rare cases the stroke as well, are increased in low-pressure cylinders, resulting in larger cylinders.

Double-expansion (usually just known as 'compound') engines expand the steam in two stages, but this does not imply that all such engines have two cylinders. They may have four cylinders working as two LP-HP pairs, or the work of the large LP cylinder can be split across two smaller cylinders, with one HP cylinder exhausting into either LP cylinder, giving a 3-cylinder layout where the cylinder and piston diameter of all three are about the same, making the reciprocating masses easier to balance.

Two-cylinder compounds can be arranged as:
 * Cross-compound – the cylinders are side by side
 * Tandem compound – the cylinders are end to end, driving a common connecting rod
 * Telescopic-compound – the cylinders are one inside the other
 * Angle-compound – the cylinders are arranged in a vee (usually at a 90° angle) and drive a common crank.

The adoption of compounding was widespread for stationary industrial units where the need was for increased power at decreasing cost, and almost universal for marine engines after 1880. It was not widely used in railway locomotives where it was often perceived as complicated and unsuitable for the harsh railway operating environment and limited space afforded by the loading gauge (particularly in Britain). Compounding was never common on British railways and not employed at all after 1930, but was used in a limited way in many other countries.

The first successful attempt to fly a heavier-than-air fixed-wing aircraft solely on steam power occurred in 1933, when George and William Besler converted a Travel Air 2000 biplane to fly on a 150 hp angle-compound V-twin steam engine of their own design instead of the usual Curtiss OX-5 inline or radial aviation gasoline engine it would have normally used.

Multiple-expansion engines
It is a logical extension of the compound engine (described above) to split the expansion into yet more stages to increase efficiency. The result is the multiple-expansion engine. Such engines use either three or four expansion stages and are known as triple- and quadruple-expansion engines respectively. These engines use a series of double-acting cylinders of progressively increasing diameter and/or stroke and hence volume. These cylinders are designed to divide the work into three or four equal portions, one for each expansion stage. The adjacent image shows an animation of a triple-expansion engine. The steam travels through the engine from left to right. The valve chest for each of the cylinders is to the left of the corresponding cylinder.

Early work

 * 1781 – Jonathan Hornblower, the grandson of one of Newcomen's engine erectors in Cornwall, patented a double-cylinder compound reciprocating beam engine in 1781. He was prevented from developing it further by James Watt, who claimed his own patents were infringed.
 * 1797 - Richard Trevithick develops an effective high pressure steam engine.
 * 1804 – Arthur Woolf develops the stationary Woolf high-pressure compound engine, patented in 1805. The Woolf engine lessened the increased magnitude of the continual heating and cooling of a single-expansion high pressure steam engine that leads to inefficiency. It also solved the problem that the contemporary cast iron cylinders could not handle it well.

Double-expansion

 * 1833 – Hercules (1829) was modified to use an extra low pressure cylinder, taken from Agrippina, with steam from her high-pressure cylinders. This modification was designed by Dutch engineer Gerhard Moritz Roentgen, making him the inventor of the naval compound steam engine. The steam paddle tugboat was then successfully used for service on the river Waal, becoming the first ship with a compound steam engine to enter service.
 * 1845 – William McNaught devised a method of fixing an additional high-pressure cylinder within an existing beam engine. To do so involved using a long pipe to connect the cylinders, and an extra set of valves to balance them. In effect this acted as a receiving chest, and a new type of compound had been invented. This system allowed greater control of the steam intake and cut-offs. An engine could be slowed by either a throttle which reduced the pressure of the steam, or by adjusting the cut-off on either cylinder. The latter was more efficient as no power was lost. The cycle was smoother as the two cylinders were not in phase.
 * 1865 – SS Agamemnon (1865) was launched, equipped with a 300hp compound steam engine. The engine was designed by Alfred Holt, one of her owners. Holt had persuaded the Board of Trade to allow a boiler pressure of 60psi instead of the normal 25psi - a higher pressure was needed to realise the advantages of double-expansion. The efficiency obtained enabled this ship to travel 8,500 miles before coaling. This made her competitive on routes between China and Britain.

Multiple-expansion

 * 1861 – Daniel Adamson took out a patent for a multiple-expansion engine, with three or more cylinders connected to one beam or crankshaft. He built a triple-expansion engine for Victoria Mills, Dukinfield which opened in 1867.
 * 1871 – Charles Normand, of Le Havre fitted a triple-expansion engine to a Seine river boat in 1871.
 * 1872 – Sir Fredrick J. Bramwell reported that compound marine engines, operating at 45psi to 60psi, consumed 2 lbs to 2.5 lbs of coal per hour per indicated horsepower.
 * 1881 – Alexander Carnegie Kirk built SS Aberdeen, the first major ship to be successfully powered by a triple expansion engine. The success relied on solving the problem of designing a boiler that could operate at the (then) high pressures needed to realise the benefits of triple expansion.
 * 1887 – HMS Victoria launched, the first battleship to be powered by triple expansion engines.
 * 1891 – Triple expansion compound marine engines, operating at 160psi, consumed on average about 1.5 lbs of coal per hour per indicated horsepower.

Mill engines
Though the first mills were driven by water power, once steam engines were adopted the manufacturer no longer needed to site the mills by running water. Cotton spinning required ever larger mills to fulfil the demand, and this drove the owners to demand increasingly powerful engines. When boiler pressure had exceeded 60 psi, compound engines achieved a thermo-dynamic advantage, but it was the mechanical advantages of the smoother stroke that was the deciding factor in the adoption of compounds. In 1859, there was 75,886 ihp (indicated horsepower) of engines in mills in the Manchester area, of which 32,282 ihp was provided by compounds though only 41,189 ihp was generated from boilers operated at over 60psi.

To generalise, between 1860 and 1926 all Lancashire mills were driven by compounds. The last compound built was by Buckley and Taylor for Wye No.2 mill, Shaw. This engine was a cross-compound design to 2,500 ihp, driving a 24 ft, 90 ton flywheel, and operated until 1965.

Marine applications
In the marine environment, the general requirement was for autonomy and increased operating range, as ships had to carry their coal supplies. The old salt-water boiler was thus no longer adequate and had to be replaced by a closed fresh-water circuit with condenser. The result from 1880 onwards was the multiple-expansion engine using three or four expansion stages (triple- and quadruple-expansion engines). These engines used a series of double-acting cylinders of progressively increasing diameter and/or stroke (and hence volume) designed to divide the work into three or four, as appropriate, equal portions for each expansion stage. Where space is at a premium, two smaller cylinders of a large sum volume might be used for the low-pressure stage. Multiple-expansion engines typically had the cylinders arranged in-line, but various other formations were used. In the late 19th century, the Yarrow-Schlick-Tweedy balancing 'system' was used on some marine triple-expansion engines. Y-S-T engines divided the low-pressure expansion stages between two cylinders, one at each end of the engine. This allowed the crankshaft to be better balanced, resulting in a smoother, faster-responding engine which ran with less vibration. This made the 4-cylinder triple-expansion engine popular with large passenger liners (such as the Olympic class), but was ultimately replaced by the virtually vibration-free steam turbine.

The development of this type of engine was important for its use in steamships as by exhausting to a condenser the water could be reclaimed to feed the boiler, which was unable to use seawater. Land-based steam engines could simply exhaust much of their steam, as feed water was usually readily available. Prior to and during World War II, the expansion engine dominated marine applications where high vessel speed was not essential. It was superseded by the steam turbine when speed was required, such as for warships and ocean liners. HMS Dreadnought of 1905 was the first major warship to replace the proven technology of the reciprocating engine with the then-novel steam turbine.

Application to railway locomotives
For railway locomotive applications the main benefit sought from compounding was economy in fuel and water consumption plus high power/weight ratio due to temperature and pressure drop taking place over a longer cycle, this resulting in increased efficiency; additional perceived advantages included more even torque.

While designs for compound locomotives may date as far back as James Samuel's 1856 patent for a "continuous expansion locomotive", the practical history of railway compounding begins with Anatole Mallet's designs in the 1870s. Mallet locomotives were operated in the United States up to the end of mainline steam by the Norfolk and Western Railway. The designs of Alfred George de Glehn in France also saw significant use, especially in the rebuilds of André Chapelon. A wide variety of compound designs were tried around 1900, but most were short-lived in popularity, due to their complexity and maintenance liability. In the 20th century the superheater was widely adopted, and the vast majority of steam locomotives were simple-expansion (with some compound locomotives converted to simple). It was realised by engineers that locomotives at steady speed were worked most efficiently with a wide-open regulator and early cut-off, the latter being set via the reversing gear. A locomotive operating at very early cut-off of steam (e.g. at 15% of the piston stroke) allows maximum expansion of the steam, with less wasted energy at the end of the stroke. Superheating eliminates the condensation and rapid loss of pressure that would otherwise occur with such expansion.

Large American locomotives used two cross-compound steam-driven air compressors, e.g. the Westinghouse 8 1/2" 150-D, for the train brakes.

The Yarrow-Schlick-Tweedy system
The presentation follows Sommerfeld's textbook, which contains a diagram (Figure 17) that is not reproduced for copyright reasons.

Consider a 4-cylinder engine on a ship. Let x be the vertical direction, z be the fore-aft direction, and y be the port-starboard direction. Let the 4 cylinders be mounted in a row along the z-axis, so that their pistons are pointed downwards. The pistons are connected to the same crankshaft via long vertical rods. Now, we set up the fundamental quantities of the engine:

 * Let $$M_1, M_2, M_3, M_4$$ be the effective masses of the compounded piston-rod system of each cylinder.
 * Let cylinder 2 to be separated from cylinder 1 with a distance of $$a_2$$ along the z-axis, and similarly for $$a_3, a_4$$.
 * Let $$l_1, l_2, l_3, l_4$$ be the length of each rod of the cylinder.
 * Let $$r_1, r_2, r_3, r_4$$ be the radii of the crankshaft connector of each cylinder.
 * Let $$\phi_1, \phi_2, \phi_3, \phi_4$$ be the angle of the crankshaft connector of each cylinder.
 * Since the crankshaft is turned in tandem by all cylinders, $$\phi_i - \phi_1$$ is a constant $$\alpha_i$$ for each of $$i = 2, 3, 4$$.

Now, as the engine operates, the vertical position of cylinder $$i$$ is equal to $$x_i$$. By trigonometry, we have

$$x_i =r_i \cos\phi_i + \sqrt{l_i^2(r_i\sin\phi_i)^2} = l_1 + r_i\cos\phi_i - \frac{r_i^2}{l_i} (1-\cos(2\phi_i))/2 + O(r_i^3/l^2)$$

As each cylinder moves up and down, it exerts a vertical force on its mounting frame equaling $$M_i\ddot x_i$$. The YST system aims to make sure that the total of all 4 forces cancels out as exactly as possible. Specifically, it aims to make sure that the total force (along the x-axis) and the total torque (around the y-axis) are both zero:

$$\sum_{i=1}^4 M_i \ddot x_i = 0; \quad \sum_{i=2}^4 M_i a_i\ddot x_i = 0$$

This can be achieved if

$$\sum_{i=1}^4 M_i x_i = Const; \quad \sum_{i=2}^4 M_i a_i x_i = Const$$

Now, plugging in the equations, we find that it means (up to second-order)

$$\sum_{i=1}^4 M_i (r_i \cos\phi_i - \frac{r_i^2}{2l_i} \cos(2\phi_i))= 0; \quad \sum_{i=2}^4 M_i a_i (r_i \cos\phi_i - \frac{r_i^2}{2l_i} \cos(2\phi_i)) = 0$$

Plugging in $$\phi_i = \phi_1 + \alpha_i$$, and expand the cosine functions, we see that with $$\phi_1$$ arbitrary, the factors of $$\sin(\phi_1), \cos(\phi_1), \sin(2\phi_1), \cos(2\phi_1)$$ must vanish separately. This gives us 8 equations to solve, which is in general possible if there are at least 8 variables of the system that we can vary.

Of the variables of the system, $$M_i, r_i$$ are fixed by the design of the cylinders. Also, the absolute values of $$a_2, a_3, a_4$$ do not matter, only their ratios matter. Together, this gives us 9 variables to vary: $$l_1, l_2, l_3, l_4, \frac{a_3} {a_2}, \frac{a_4}{a_2}, \alpha_2, \alpha_3, \alpha_4$$.

The YST system requires at least 4 cylinders. With 3 cylinders, the same derivation gives us only 6 variables to vary, which is insufficient to solve all 8 equations.

The YST system is used on ships such as the SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse and SS Deutschland (1900).

title: Compound steam engine


text:
Category talk:Religious faiths, traditions, and movements

name
Rather odd name. How about "Religions"? —Ashley Y 21:21, 2004 Oct 19 (UTC)

I agree that the name of the category is unhelpful to the average reader who is looking for world faiths and organizations. "Systems" is too techno a word and not indicative of the content in a religious context. However, "Religions" was the previous name of this or a similar category, and it was confusing with its parent category, "Religion." I propose renaming this category to "Religious faiths, traditions, and movements". --Gary D 19:13, Oct 26, 2004 (UTC)

Request for your aid dealing with actions from a user against Religious, Spiritual and Esoteric articles
User:Baphomet. is damaging Wikipedia: he his trying to label Religious articles as Superstition (from a POV view of positivism, that he calls Science). At the article Reincarnation he just went on to add to category "Superstition" and later on without discussion put a POV msg in the article. Please see the discussion page between both of us Talk:Reincarnation.

Through the use of a Culture created by extremism in Science, he is clearly trying to do the job that the Inquisition did in the Middle Ages in a Culture created by extremism in Religion. He is damaging Wikipedia in a subtle invious way!
 * Please see also the Alert message I have created at Wikiquette_alerts, Thank you! --GalaazV 20:25, 4 September 2005 (UTC)

User Page Listed as Article?
Having mistakenly attempted to speedy-delete the page listed as User:Digital20/Damon Huardism, before clicking that it was in fact a user page, I'm now wondering how it can be prevented from displaying here in the list. The reason being simply that it's obvious nonsense. The user has already had that content deleted as an actual article, but is apparently linking his User page here in order to continue showing it off. Presumably this is via a tag on Digital20's own page - which I presume (earlier error notwithstanding and now corrected) I'm not supposed to edit. Does anyone know a way of removing this page from the list? - Shrivenzale (talk) 01:44, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I've commented-out the categories on that page. This is done by putting  around bits of a page that you want to make hidden or ineffective. - Fayenatic (talk) 20:01, 7 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Noted, thank you. - Shrivenzale (talk) 00:56, 8 January 2008 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elfe

Elfe was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. 4 votes to delete. Postdlf 03:55, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Elfe
Nothing establishes notability. — Bill 21:21, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non-notable family history. jni 08:55, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: Wikipedia is not a genealogical site, and I also doubt very much that the name is related to "elves," except that "elf" meant "man" as late as the 17th c. in English. Geogre 01:05, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not a family tree. --Improv 17:00, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Elfe


text:
Gravimetry

Gravimetry is the measurement of the strength of a gravitational field. Gravimetry may be used when either the magnitude of a gravitational field or the properties of matter responsible for its creation are of interest. The study of gravity changes belongs to geodynamics.

Units of measurement
Gravity is usually measured in units of acceleration. In the SI system of units, the standard unit of acceleration is metres per second squared (m/s2). Other units include the cgs gal (sometimes known as a galileo, in either case with symbol Gal), which equals 1 centimetre per second squared, and the g (gn), equal to 9.80665 m/s2. The value of the gn is defined as approximately equal to the acceleration due to gravity at the Earth's surface, although the actual acceleration varies slightly by location.

Gravimeters
An instrument used to measure gravity is known as a gravimeter. For a small body, general relativity predicts gravitational effects indistinguishable from the effects of acceleration by the equivalence principle. Thus, gravimeters can be regarded as special-purpose accelerometers. Many weighing scales may be regarded as simple gravimeters. In one common form, a spring is used to counteract the force of gravity pulling on an object. The change in length of the spring may be calibrated to the force required to balance the gravitational pull. The resulting measurement may be made in units of force (such as the newton), but is more commonly made in units of gals or cm/s2.

Researchers use more sophisticated gravimeters when precise measurements are needed. When measuring the Earth's gravitational field, measurements are made to the precision of microgals to find density variations in the rocks making up the Earth. Several types of gravimeters exist for making these measurements, including some that are essentially refined versions of the spring scale described above. These measurements are used to quantify gravity anomalies.

Besides precision, stability is also an important property for a gravimeter as it allows the monitoring of gravity changes. These changes can be the result of mass displacements inside the Earth, or of vertical movements of the Earth's crust on which measurements are being made.

The majority of modern gravimeters use specially designed metal or quartz zero-length springs to support the test mass. The special property of these springs is that the natural resonant period of oscillation of the spring–mass system can be made very long – approaching a thousand seconds. This detunes the test mass from most local vibration and mechanical noise, increasing the sensitivity and utility of the gravimeter. Quartz and metal springs are chosen for different reasons; quartz springs are less affected by magnetic and electric fields while metal springs have a much lower drift (elongation) with time. The test mass is sealed in an air-tight container so that tiny changes of barometric pressure from blowing wind and other weather do not change the buoyancy of the test mass in air. Spring gravimeters are, in practice, relative instruments that measure the difference in gravity between different locations. A relative instrument also requires calibration by comparing instrument readings taken at locations with known absolute values of gravity.

Absolute gravimeters provide such measurements by determining the gravitational acceleration of a test mass in vacuum. A test mass is allowed to fall freely inside a vacuum chamber and its position is measured with a laser interferometer and timed with an atomic clock. The laser wavelength is known to ±0.025 ppb and the clock is stable to ±0.03 ppb. Care must be taken to minimize the effects of perturbing forces such as residual air resistance (even in vacuum), vibration, and magnetic forces. Such instruments are capable of an accuracy of about two parts per billion or 0.002 mGal and reference their measurement to atomic standards of length and time. Their primary use is for calibrating relative instruments, monitoring crustal deformation, and in geophysical studies requiring high accuracy and stability. However, absolute instruments are somewhat larger and significantly more expensive than relative spring gravimeters and are thus relatively rare.

Gravimeters have been designed to mount in vehicles, including aircraft (note the field of aerogravity ), ships and submarines. These special gravimeters isolate acceleration from the movement of the vehicle and subtract it from measurements. The acceleration of the vehicles is often hundreds or thousands of times stronger than the changes in gravity being measured.

A gravimeter (the Lunar Surface Gravimeter) deployed on the surface of the Moon during the 1972 Apollo 17 mission did not work due to a design error. A second device (the Traverse Gravimeter Experiment) functioned as anticipated.

Further information

A gravimeter is an instrument used to measure gravitational acceleration. Every mass has an associated gravitational potential. The gradient of this potential is a force. A gravimeter measures this gravitational force.

The first gravimeters were vertical accelerometers, specialized for measuring the constant downward acceleration of gravity on the Earth's surface. The Earth's vertical gravity varies from place to place over its surface by about ±0.5%. It varies by about ±1000 $nm⁄s2$ (nanometers per second squared) at any location because of the changing positions of the Sun and Moon relative to the Earth.

Though similar in design to other accelerometers, gravimeters are typically designed to be much more sensitive. Their first uses were to measure the changes in gravity from the varying densities and distribution of masses inside the Earth, from temporal tidal variations in the shape and distribution of mass in the oceans, atmosphere and earth.

Gravimeters can detect vibrations and gravity changes from human activities. Depending on the interests of the researcher or operator, this might be counteracted by integral vibration isolation and signal processing.

The resolution of gravimeters can be increased by averaging samples over longer periods. Fundamental characteristics of gravimeters are the accuracy of a single measurement (a single sample) and the sampling rate.

 * $$\text{Resolution} = {\text{SingleMeasurementResolution} \over \sqrt \text{NumberOfSamples}}$$

for example:

 * $$\text{Resolution per minute} = {\text{Resolution per second} \over \sqrt {60}}$$

Gravimeters display their measurements in units of gals (cm/s2), centimetres per second squared, and parts per million, parts per billion, or parts per trillion of the average vertical acceleration with respect to the Earth. Some newer units are pm/s2 (picometers per second squared), fm/s2 (femto), am/s2 (atto) for very sensitive instruments.

Gravimeters are used for petroleum and mineral prospecting, seismology, geodesy, geophysical surveys and other geophysical research, and for metrology. Their fundamental purpose is to map the gravity field in space and time.

Most current work is Earth-based, with a few satellites around Earth, but gravimeters are also applicable to the Moon, Sun, planets, asteroids, stars, galaxies and other bodies. Gravitational wave experiments monitor the changes with time in the gravitational potential itself, rather than the gradient of the potential that the gravimeter is tracking. This distinction is somewhat arbitrary. The subsystems of the gravitational radiation experiments are very sensitive to changes in the gradient of the potential. The local gravity signals on Earth that interfere with gravitational wave experiments are disparagingly referred to as "Newtonian noise", since Newtonian gravity calculations are sufficient to characterize many of the local (earth-based) signals.

The term absolute gravimeter has most often been used to label gravimeters which report the local vertical acceleration due to the Earth. Relative gravimeter usually refer to differential comparisons of gravity from one place to another. They are designed to subtract the average vertical gravity automatically. They can be calibrated at a location where the gravity is known accurately and then transported to the location where the gravity is to be measured. Or they can be calibrated in absolute units at their operating location.

There are many methods for displaying acceleration fields, also called gravity fields. This includes traditional 2D maps, but increasingly 3D video. Since gravity and acceleration are the same, "acceleration field" might be preferable, since "gravity" is an oft-misused prefix.

Commercial absolute gravimeters
Gravimeters for measuring the Earth's gravity as precisely as possible are getting smaller and more portable. A common type measures the acceleration of small masses free falling in a vacuum, when the accelerometer is firmly attached to the ground. The mass includes a retroreflector and terminates one arm of a Michelson interferometer. By counting and timing the interference fringes, the acceleration of the mass can be measured. A more recent development is a "rise and fall" version that tosses the mass upward and measures both upward and downward motion. This allows cancellation of some measurement errors; however, "rise and fall" gravimeters are not yet in common use. Absolute gravimeters are used in the calibration of relative gravimeters, surveying for gravity anomalies (voids), and for establishing the vertical control network.

Atom interferometric and atomic fountain methods are used for precise measurement of the Earth's gravity, and atomic clocks and purpose-built instruments can use time dilation (also called general relativistic) measurements to track changes in the gravitational potential and gravitational acceleration on the Earth.

The term "absolute" does not convey the instrument's stability, sensitivity, accuracy, ease of use, and bandwidth. The words "Absolute" and "relative" should not be used when more specific characteristics can be given.

Relative gravimeters
The most common gravimeters are spring-based. They are used in gravity surveys over large areas for establishing the figure of the geoid over those areas. They are basically a weight on a spring, and by measuring the amount by which the weight stretches the spring, local gravity can be measured. However, the strength of the spring must be calibrated by placing the instrument in a location with a known gravitational acceleration.

The current standard for sensitive gravimeters are the superconducting gravimeters, which operate by suspending a superconducting niobium sphere in an extremely stable magnetic field; the current required to generate the magnetic field that suspends the niobium sphere is proportional to the strength of the Earth's gravitational acceleration. The superconducting gravimeter achieves sensitivities of 10$–11$ m·s$−2$ (one nanogal), approximately one trillionth (10$−12$) of the Earth surface gravity. In a demonstration of the sensitivity of the superconducting gravimeter, Virtanen (2006), describes how an instrument at Metsähovi, Finland, detected the gradual increase in surface gravity as workmen cleared snow from its laboratory roof.

The largest component of the signal recorded by a superconducting gravimeter is the tidal gravity of the Sun and Moon acting at the station. This is roughly ±1000 $nm⁄s2$ (nanometers per second squared) at most locations. "SGs", as they are called, can detect and characterize Earth tides, changes in the density of the atmosphere, the effect of changes in the shape of the surface of the ocean, the effect of the atmosphere's pressure on the Earth, changes in the rate of rotation of the Earth, oscillations of the Earth's core, distant and nearby seismic events, and more.

Many broadband three-axis seismometers in common use are sensitive enough to track the Sun and Moon. When operated to report acceleration, they are useful gravimeters. Because they have three axes, it is possible to solve for their position and orientation, by either tracking the arrival time and pattern of seismic waves from earthquakes, or by referencing them to the Sun and Moon tidal gravity.

Recently, the SGs, and broadband three-axis seismometers operated in gravimeter mode, have begun to detect and characterize the small gravity signals from earthquakes. These signals arrive at the gravimeter at the speed of light, so have the potential to improve earthquake early warning methods. There is some activity to design purpose-built gravimeters of sufficient sensitivity and bandwidth to detect these prompt gravity signals from earthquakes. Not just the magnitude 7+ events, but also the smaller, much more frequent, events.

Newer MEMS gravimeters, atom gravimeters – MEMS gravimeters offer the potential for low-cost arrays of sensors. MEMS gravimeters are currently variations on spring type accelerometers where the motions of a tiny cantilever or mass are tracked to report acceleration. Much of the research is focused on different methods of detecting the position and movements of these small masses. In Atom gravimeters, the mass is a collection of atoms.

For a given restoring force, the central frequency of the instrument is often given by

 * $$ \omega = 2\pi \times \text{Frequency} = \sqrt {\text{Force Constant} \over \text{Effective Mass}} $$ (in radians per second)

The term for the "force constant" changes if the restoring force is electrostatic, magnetostatic, electromagnetic, optical, microwave, acoustic, or any of dozens of different ways to keep the mass stationary. The "force constant" is just the coefficient of the displacement term in the equation of motion:

 * m mass, a acceleration, b viscosity, v velocity, k force constant, x displacement
 * F external force as a function of location/position and time.

F is the force being measured, and $F⁄m$ is the acceleration.

 * $m a + b v + k x + constant = F(X,t)$ + higher derivatives of the restoring force

Precise GPS stations can be operated as gravimeters since they are increasingly measuring three-axis positions over time, which, when differentiated twice, give an acceleration signal.

The satellite borne gravimeters GOCE, GRACE, are mostly operating in gravity gradiometer mode. They yield detailed information about the Earth's time-varying gravity field. The spherical harmonic gravitational potential models are slowly improving in both spatial and temporal resolution. Taking the gradient of the potentials gives estimate of local acceleration which are what is measured by the gravimeter arrays. The superconducting gravimeter network has been used to ground truth the satellite potentials. This should eventually improve both the satellite and Earth-based methods and intercomparisons.

Transportable relative gravimeters also exist; they employ an extremely stable inertial platform to compensate for the masking effects of motion and vibration, a difficult engineering feat. The first transportable relative gravimeters were, reportedly, a secret military technology developed in the 1950–1960s as a navigational aid for nuclear submarines. Subsequently in the 1980s, transportable relative gravimeters were reverse engineered by the civilian sector for use on ship, then in air and finally satellite-borne gravity surveys.

Microgravimetry
Microgravimetry is an important branch developed on the foundation of classical gravimetry. Microgravity investigations are carried out in order to solve various problems of engineering geology, mainly location of voids and their monitoring. Very detailed measurements of high accuracy can indicate voids of any origin, provided the size and depth are large enough to produce gravity effect stronger than is the level of confidence of relevant gravity signal.

History
The modern gravimeter was developed by Lucien LaCoste and Arnold Romberg in 1936.

They also invented most subsequent refinements, including the ship-mounted gravimeter, in 1965, temperature-resistant instruments for deep boreholes, and lightweight hand-carried instruments. Most of their designs remain in use with refinements in data collection and data processing.

Satellite gravimetry

Currently, the static and time-variable Earth's gravity field parameters are being determined using modern satellite missions, such as GOCE, CHAMP, Swarm, GRACE and GRACE-FO. The lowest-degree parameters, including the Earth's oblateness and geocenter motion are best determined from satellite laser ranging.

Large-scale gravity anomalies can be detected from space, as a by-product of satellite gravity missions, e.g., GOCE. These satellite missions aim at the recovery of a detailed gravity field model of the Earth, typically presented in the form of a spherical-harmonic expansion of the Earth's gravitational potential, but alternative presentations, such as maps of geoid undulations or gravity anomalies, are also produced.

The Gravity Recovery and Climate Experiment (GRACE) consists of two satellites that can detect gravitational changes across the Earth. Also these changes can be presented as gravity anomaly temporal variations. The Gravity Recovery and Interior Laboratory (GRAIL) also consisted of two spacecraft orbiting the Moon, which orbited for three years before their deorbit in 2015.

title: Gravimetry


text:
Talk:American Popular Revolutionary Alliance

Untitled
Some text about APRA removed from Víctor Raúl Haya de la Torre, slightly NPOV adjusted, and moved here, to be incorporated into the APRA article as appropriate:

Years later, the military government of General Juan Velasco Alvarado implemented some of his economic policies with disastrous results. By 1972, Velasco Alvarado managed to destroy Peru's anchovy fishing industry, which had once supplied a quarter of the world's fish flour. In 1985, APRA leader Alan Garcia was blamed for using similar policies which badly dammaged the economy.

POV
This article strikes me as having an anti-APRA POV. I don't have the knowledge to take on a rewrite, but someone should have a look at this. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:19, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)

I do think this is to some extent true. I have tried to make it more neutral. Hasdrubal 19:38, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

"Active provincial party"?
It's in the party template, yet sounds more suited to Canada then to Peru. 62.218.64.228 21:46, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Quote
This quote makes no sense:
 * Oportunistic ideological swings to the right by Haya de la Torre in the 1950s, in exchange for attaining legal status for the party, resulted in an exodus of some of APRA's most talented young leaders to the Marxist left, including the Peruvian Communist Party founded by theorist José Carlos Mariátegui.

Mariategui died in 1930 and the Communist Party was founded in the late 20s but it seems to imply that Mariategui left the "APRA movement" (recall Mariategui regarded APRA as a movement not a party) in the 1950's as a result of Haya de la Torre's shift in policy. I eliminated that last part of the sentence because of this and am just adding this so that future editors of this page understand why I removed it.--Jersey Devil 09:13, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Mariategui was never a member of the APRA party. In fact, he is the founder of the Peruvian Socialist Party (wich, after his death, was renamed PCP or Peruvian Communist Party). It was a well known fact that Mariategui and Haya de la Torre were political enemies due to the differents approachs that both had about how to reform the country: Revolution or Cooperation. Messhermit 14:33, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, from what I've read of Mariategui he did consider himself at one time part of the "APRA movement" but once Haya de la Torre broke with that concept and made it a "party" he broke away from it. Anyway, we should talk about the new "modern" Puffy "vote or die" attitude that APRA is trying to have to win youth votes in the next election. They even modified their logo into a star with glasses and Garcia has been going around dancing reggaeton. It is all pretty silly. --Jersey Devil 22:33, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Well, I'm an Aprista, I believe in Haya de la Torre's ideologies and José Carlos Mariátegui did not want to be part of the APRA because he was a Socialist. Búfalo Barreto (talk) 19:07, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Victor Raul Haya de la Torre.jpg
The image Image:Victor Raul Haya de la Torre.jpg is used in this article under a claim of fair use, but it does not have an adequate explanation for why it meets the requirements for such images when used here. In particular, for each page the image is used on, it must have an explanation linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Please check

 * That there is a non-free use rationale on the image's description page for the use in this article.
 * That this article is linked to from the image description page.

This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Media copyright questions. --05:35, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I propose that National Executive Committee of the Peruvian Aprista Party be merged into American Popular Revolutionary Alliance. The former is about the leadership council of this party. Both articles are very short and there is absolutely no reason why the information about the party's leadership should not be incorporated into this article. RJFF (talk) 15:55, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

Well, I think it shouldn't be merged with the American Popular Revolutionary Alliance page. I checked the Democratic National Committee and Republican National Committee pages and they are the equivalent to my created page. I just inserted some references. Please compare the two pages, the National Executive Committee of the Peruvian Aprista Party and the Democratic National Committee. Best Regards Búfalo Barreto (talk) 19:03, 17 October 2012 (UTC)

 * The difference is that the articles Democratic Party (United States) and Republican Party (United States) are very long. As a general rule, a Wikipedia article should not be longer than 50 kB. If it is longer, contents should be split off and outsourced to other articles. The articles of the major US parties have 90 kB and 132 kB respectively. The article on APRA is only 10 kB long, so there should be no problem to incorporate the information about its National Executive Committee (3 kB), without the article becoming too long. --RJFF (talk) 11:44, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

Fine, It's OK, I'll create a new section inside the American Popular Revolutionary Alliance. The merger is working. Thank you for the advice, Best Regards Búfalo Barreto (talk) 12:24, 18 October 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on American Popular Revolutionary Alliance. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20130119000545/http://www.cheleloyborolas.com/index.php/notas-de-prensa/3661-resolucion-no003-2010-sg-cenpap to http://www.cheleloyborolas.com/index.php/notas-de-prensa/3661-resolucion-no003-2010-sg-cenpap

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 07:56, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Requested move 28 April 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Per WP:COMMONNAME. (non-admin closure) Captain Jack Sparrow (talk) 08:04, 26 May 2023 (UTC)

American Popular Revolutionary Alliance → Peruvian Aprista Party – We should use the organizations actual name as currently we are using it's old name as the page name, while using the parties current name everywhere else. The the old name no longer applies as outlined in the article. Completely Random Guy (talk) 10:19, 28 April 2023 (UTC) — Relisting. – Material  Works  19:41, 5 May 2023 (UTC)  — Relisting. EggRoll97 (talk) 23:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)  — Relisting. >>>  Extorc . talk  07:39, 19 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose Current title seems to be the common name (see Ngrams). Number   5  7  16:56, 4 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Response The chart is very informative, thank you! I will bookmark that website for future reference! It appears American Popular Revolutionary Alliance is searched more often, however I feel as if it is not exactly honest to leave the current name, because as we know the party changed its name to Peruvian Aprista Party. As Wikipedia is the world's largest online encyclopedia, and the first result to come up on Google when someone wants to research something, if we changed the old name to the official name, more people will start knowing it as such, and searching for that name, and the usage of the name will become more common and popular and eventually replace the old name. Just a thought! Completely Random Guy (talk) 00:41, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Hello. While American Popular Revolutionary Alliance is the name of the inter-continental organization, Peruvian Aprista Party is the official name as a political party since September 20, 1930, the day it was founded in Peru. Before then, it was just an inter-continental organization with a plan to establish as many national enclaves throughout Latin America, ultimately only the Peruvian surviving till this day. Peruvian Aprista Party usually is interchanged with just APRA or PAP in official documents, while the full American Popular Revolutionary Alliance is not used at all. LordSidiousOfPeru (talk) 05:49, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Wonderful! So 2 to 1 in favor of approving the name change. Completely Random Guy (talk) 23:35, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Relisting comment: Relisting to get a clearer consensus. – Material  Works  19:41, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Peru has been notified of this discussion. – Material  Works  19:41, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Socialism has been notified of this discussion. – Material  Works  19:42, 5 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Note: WikiProject Politics has been notified of this discussion. EggRoll97 (talk) 23:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.


text:
Category:Gravimetry

Gravimetry, the measurement of the strength of a gravitational field and its analysis.

title: Category:Gravimetry


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/East African Procurement News

East African Procurement News was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. 4 votes to delete. Postdlf 03:59, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

East African Procurement News
I bet you can tell I'm still doing deadenders: the letter E for some reason has tickeld my fancy, I guess. Anyhow, advertising for a non-notable corporate project. — Bill 21:31, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: nonnotable. Less annoying than most of the promo material we get, though. Wile E. Heresiarch 18:48, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: Not notable. Geogre 01:06, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. NeoJustin 03:46 Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
USS Hoe

USS Hoe (SS-258), a Gato-class submarine, was a ship of the United States Navy named for the hoe, one of various sharks, especially the dogfish.

Construction and commissioning
Hoe's keel was laid down by the Electric Boat Company at Groton, Connecticut, on 2 January 1942. She was launched on 17 September 1942, sponsored by Miss Helen Hess, and commissioned on 16 December 1942.

First and second war patrols, May – October 1943
After shakedown, Hoe sailed 19 April 1943 via the Panama Canal to Pearl Harbor, where she arrived 15 May. She departed on her first combat war patrol 27 May, and patrolled the Guam-Palaus area. Hoe damaged two freighters before returning 11 July to Pearl Harbor via Ulithi and Midway Atoll.

Hoe's second patrol, conducted west of Truk, was marred by considerable engine trouble. The submarine departed 21 August, damaged one tanker, and eluded several depth charge attacks before returning to Pearl Harbor 18 October 1943. She also took part in the search for downed aviators off Wake Island, 8–9 October.

Third, fourth, and fifth war patrols, January – August 1944
Following extensive repairs, Hoe set out on her third patrol 26 January 1944. Patrolling between Mindanao and Halmahera, the submarine made an attack 16 February which damaged one ship. Although shadowed by escort vessels, Hoe detected another convoy 25 February and in two separate attacks sank tanker Nissho Maru. She returned to Fremantle, Australia, 5 March for refit and training.

Hoe began her fourth war patrol from Fremantle 4 April, and operated in the South China Sea, the vital Japanese sea supply line. She attacked a convoy 8 May, but scored no hits. Two more attacks 17 May and 19 May resulted in several damaged freighters and severe retaliatory depth charge attacks on Hoe. She returned to Fremantle 2 June 1944. Her fifth war patrol, in the same area, was conducted between 29 June and 23 August 1944.

Sixth and seventh war patrols, September 1944 – January 1945
The veteran submarine sailed on her sixth patrol 15 September as leader of a coordinated attack group consisting of Hoe, USS Aspro (SS-309), and USS Cabrilla (SS-288). Operating southwest of Lingayen Gulf, the submarines accounted for some 38,000 tons of valuable Japanese shipping in five night surface attacks. Hoe was credited with the sinking of passenger-cargo ship Kohoko Maru 8 October, and returned to Fremantle 22 October.

Her seventh patrol, 23 November 1944 to 3 January 1945, resulted in no sinkings. Part of this cruise was conducted in coordination with USS Flasher (SS-249) and USS Becuna (SS-319).

Eighth war patrol, February – March 1945
Hoe's final war patrol began 8 February 1945, when she again headed for the South China Sea. By this time the vigorous American submarine offensive had taken its toll and little Japanese shipping could be found. The submarine did detect a tanker with an escort 25 February and in a well-conducted submerged attack sank the escort, Shōnan.

Two days before, while patrolling off Indochina, she and USS Flounder (SS-251) had been involved in one of the most unusual accidents of the war. While steaming at a depth of 60 ft Hoe struck an object and broached, sustaining only light damage. Subsequent analysis proved that she had actually collided with Flounder, one of the few submerged collisions on record. Ending her last patrol at Pearl Harbor 6 March, Hoe returned to the United States for overhaul and repairs.

Post-war service
She sailed again for the Western Pacific 5 July 1945 and was just entering Apra Harbor, Guam, when the war ended. A few days later she sailed for the East Coast via Pearl Harbor and the Panama Canal, arriving New York 29 September 1945.

Hoe decommissioned 7 August 1946 at New London, Conn., and joined the Atlantic Reserve Fleet. In September 1956 she was taken out of reserve to act as a Naval Reserve Training Ship in a noncommissioned status in the 3rd Naval District. She was subsequently sold 23 August 1960 to Laneett Inc., Boston, Massachusetts.

Hoe received seven battle stars for World War II service. Her first, third, fourth, sixth, and eighth patrols were designated successful.

title: USS Hoe


text:
User talk:Biggo88

21:26, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Maxpayne.PNG
Thanks for uploading or contributing to Image:Maxpayne.PNG. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. Freedomeagle 13:55, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:Biggo88


text:
88th Regiment of Foot

Three regiments of the British Army have been numbered the 88th Regiment of Foot:

 * 88th Regiment of Foot (Highland Volunteers) (raised 1760), also known as "Campbell's Regiment"
 * 88th Regiment of Foot (1779) (raised 1779)
 * 88th Regiment of Foot (Connaught Rangers) (raised 1793)

title: 88th Regiment of Foot


text:
Machine Men (band)

Machine Men was a Finnish heavy metal band that originally formed as an Iron Maiden cover band.

Vocalist Toni Parviainen started singing in 1998, with inspiration from Bruce Dickinson. Machine Men took their name from a song present on Dickinson's 1998 album "The Chemical Wedding".

After a two-year hiatus, the band broke up in February 2011 due to lack of interest from the members.

Former Band members

 * Toni "Antony" Parviainen - Vocals
 * Turbo J-V - Guitar
 * Jani Noronen - Guitar
 * Eero Vehniäinen - Bass
 * Jarno Parantainen - Drums

Machine Men (EP) (2002)

 * Men Inside the Machine
 * Eye of the Truth
 * The Slave Trade
 * Enjoy Insanity
 * Aces High (Iron Maiden Cover)

Scars & Wounds (2003)

 * Against the Freaks
 * The Gift
 * The Beginning of the End
 * Silver Dreams
 * Man in Chains
 * Betrayed by Angels
 * Victim
 * Scars & Wounds
 * Men Inside the Machine - Japanese Bonus Track
 * Eye of the Truth - Japanese Bonus Track

-There is a hidden track (03:44) after "Scars & Wounds" which seems to be a reprise of the title track.

-Some versions have the "Machine Men" EP as bonus tracks (the Russian version e.g.)

Elegies (2005)

 * Falling
 * Dream and Religion
 * Apathy
 * Back from the Days
 * The Traitor
 * October
 * Daytime Theatre
 * Doors of Resurrection
 * From Sunrise to Sunset
 * Freak (Bruce Dickinson Cover)
 * Dream & Religion (industrial ver.) - Limited Edition Bonus Track

Circus of Fools (2007)

 * Circus of Fools
 * No Talk Without the Giant
 * Ghost of the Seasons
 * Tyrannize
 * The Shadow Gallery
 * Where I Stand
 * Border of the Real World
 * Dying Without a Name
 * Cardinal Point
 * Till' the End of Her Days - Japanese Bonus Track
 * October (Acoustic ver.) - Japanese Bonus Track

title: Machine Men (band)


text:
Talk:Israel Shamir

Shamir and SPS
User:Avaya1, per WP:ABOUTSELF, Shamir can be used for statements about his own life. That they arent in any secondary source is reason to attribute it explicitly, but you are removing material that is explicitly allowed by policy and leaving zero information about Shamir's life in a supposed biography of Shamir.  nableezy  - 20:57, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Beyond that, Shamir's claims have been reported in secondary sites such as The Times of Israel and Tablet.  nableezy  - 21:00, 15 July 2019 (UTC)
 * While some such use can be justified in most biographies if uncontroversial, in this case this may be controversial - particularly when we have this quote reported - "He has invented his entire personal history. Nothing he says about himself is true." - please see WP:ABOUTSELF(4). Furthermore - WP:FRIND applies as well, and would preclude using material by Shamir. Icewhiz (talk) 07:22, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Thats why we attribute it to him. The material, beyond being the only biographical detail we have at all in a supposed biography of a living person, is also quoted in secondary sources.  nableezy  - 14:59, 16 July 2019 (UTC)

Considering it's not cited to any WP:RS, then surely it requires us to say that it is notable (that they are perhaps statements from a important primary source). However, where is the evidence these claims are notable? They seem to be just claims from his personal website. Moreover, searching in Hebrew, there is no mention of any of these claims (so it really seems like we are just reprinting random, self-promotional claims from the website here, without WP:RS, notability or secondary coverage, and with the knowledge that it is an unreliable source). Avaya1 (talk) 11:50, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Uh I just gave you two reliable sources, and notability has nothing to do with the content within articles. And, again, WP:ABOUTSELF explicitly shows the claim about RS being irrelevant here.  nableezy  - 14:59, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * And actually Icewhiz, I agree with removing his self-published views on other topics here (so long as you arent leaving an accusation unanswered as you are here). But for material about himself he can be included. Obviously so as both the TOI and Tablet report his claims. Rendering moot that other claim about RS.  nableezy  - 15:04, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The content is not WP:DUE unless there is some indication that it not just false, trivia claims made for self-promotion on a personal website. In this case, these paragraphs in the article were originally written by Shamir himself when he was editing here (both with an account in his name and IPs which seem to overlap with it), and originate from a website which is not a reliable or verified source. Originally Shamir was editing/writing this article himself and he was making false claims back when he was editing this article (i.e. removing the fact he was a Swedish citizen) https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Israel_Shamir&type=revision&diff=14921315&oldid=14921028 Avaya1 (talk) 15:09, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * All material here needs a source other than Shamir - if have TOI or Tablet reporting something - then use them as a source. Per WP:ABOUTSELF clause 4 and WP:FRIND - self sources can't be used in this particular bio.Icewhiz (talk) 16:23, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * So you include Stephen Pollard in an op-ed calling a living person an anti-semite but remove his response? You think WP:BLP somehow doesnt apply to you? Im taking this to BLPN and not AE just because Id like to maintain my sunny disposition today.  nableezy  - 16:55, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I removed what was clearly a SPS. There is quite a bit of other content that should be examined carefully and possibly removed - the sourcing in this article is in a sad state.Icewhiz (talk) 17:50, 16 July 2019 (UTC)
 * All this (his promotion of antisemitism and Holocaust denial) is described in WP:RS and widespread non Op-ed coverage - for example, in news articles in the Guardian about Wikileaks. This is also DUE as it is almost the only coverage of him in WP:RS.Avaya1 (talk) 18:32, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Yall are not allowed to turn this into the case against Israel Shamir. I am going to be restoring several parts of this and removing several parts of this.  nableezy  - 19:44, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 * WP:SPS use here is not acceptable. We cover such subjects as they are covered by independent reliable sources - not WP:FRINGE websites.Icewhiz (talk) 19:56, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Including attacks on a living person based on editorials and removing the response should result in a BLP ban. Claiming that you are doing so with "reliable sources" should result in something wider.  nableezy  - 20:20, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

your edit is both unsupported by any policy (two reliable sources are cited reporting on Shamir's claims) and a violation of the 1RR. Please self-revert.  nableezy  - 18:07, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
 * There's no reliable source for the claims, the source is rather mentioning his website again. The website itself was inserted into this article, which is the likely source for the article reporting itself. In other words, it is likely Wikipedia now reporting on Wikipedia (based on edits to this article made by Shamir adding them to Wikipedia himself). There is a policy against this, as it seems to be Circular reporting. There is even a template for this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Circular_reporting The question is simply whether we should include these claims. To what extent is it WP:DUE to report unverified claims from a personal website, and for which no evidence has been presented? If Shamir e.g. worked for the BBC, was a paratrooper in the Paratroopers Brigade who would be some kind of war hero in Israel, etc, we should expect there to be some evidence or source for this, for it to be DUE to reprint it in an encyclopedia. Simple circular reporting from the Wikipedia page, that Shamir originally wrote, and which was sourced to his personal website, is not sufficient for inclusion.

 * By analogy, this is the equivalent of if I was a fringe claimant known mainly for fabrications, writing my own Wikipedia article, which is sourced to my personal website - in which I said I dated some supermodels and was a Topgun fighter pilot - would there any reason it would be DUE for Wikipedia to reprint these claims without evidence except that I added it to the article myself, and there was circular reprinting of that with wording which makes it likely it is copied from this very article? Avaya1 (talk) 01:28, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
 * two different reliable sources have been provided that say Shamir says this about himself. The article reports it just as those reliable sources does. There is zero basis for the claim that Times of Israel or Tablet relied on Wikipedia in reporting that Shamir's website says this about Shamir, given the very obvious fact that Shamir's website does in fact say this about Shamir. You do not get to decide that because you dislike something that the article not include it. It has weight because reliable sources have given it weight. If you simply self-revert until tomorrow you are still edit-warring. And in doing so you would be removing multiple reliable sources. Please do not continue to try to force in your changes to this article through revert-warring, it is very expressly forbidden by policy and beyond that your argument simply does not stand up to any scrutiny.  nableezy  - 02:44, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
 * They do not source the claims, but rather the fact they were published on his website. Shamir used his website to then write those claims on this Wikipedia article originally. Years later, these have been reprinted with the exactly same wording as used in this article, as filler in TOI. This is simply circular reporting whose origin is from Shamir himself, and not evidence that the claims are reliable or WP:DUE (especially considering their origin). The question is whether it is DUE to include the claims here. Is there any evidence these have any notability, beyond being sentences written on his website (that he used to cite himself for this article)? Unless there is any actual source for these claims, they are clearly fringe claims with no evidence for them, which are UNDUE and originate from his own self-sourcing and self-editing of this article. Avaya1 (talk) 03:23, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
 * What do you mean they do not source the claims? They say they are getting it from his website. They report it as the claims of his website. The claims are actually on his website. None of that is in dispute. Both the ToI and Tablet see fit to include that Shamir says this about himself. We are not reporting it as anything other than what Shamir says about himself. Your argument on WP:UNDUE seemingly ignores what WP:UNDUE actually says. Here, Ill quote in the hopes this gets the point across:"Neutrality requires that each article or other page in the mainspace fairly represents all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in the published, reliable sources."This viewpoint has been published by reliable sources (multiple ones) and as such there is WP:DUE weight from the sources to include it here. You are making up policy here. What it actually says supports the retention of the material. Please read WP:N, notability has nothing to do with the content of articles. Not. One. Thing. And again, if you continue edit-warring it out then that is another problem beyond the poor content argument.  nableezy  - 03:29, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
 * And we have academic sources detailing the issues with the website. Please read WP:FRIND and WP:PROFRINGE - quotes from the website are not independent of Shamir, particularly when the source merely quotes and does not analyze the claim (e.g. TOI).Icewhiz (talk) 04:00, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The cites are not to his website. Please read WP:RS and WP:V and WP:DUE. The citations here are to the Times of Israel and to Tablet. Are you seriously challenging either of those as reliable sources? They consider his website relevant to provide information about Shamir. They also see the need to explicitly attribute it to Shamir's website. And while you are at it, please read WP:FRIND yourself. See where it says"The best sources to use when describing fringe theories, and in determining their notability and prominence, are independent reliable sources. In particular, the relative space that an article devotes to different aspects of a fringe theory should follow from consideration primarily of the independent sources. Points that are not discussed in independent sources should not be given any space in articles."Are you seriously arguing that the Times of Israel or Tabler are not independent reliable sources? Are you seriously saying that Shamir saying he was a paratrooper is not discussed in said independent reliable sources?  nableezy  - 05:41, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
 * They are independent reliable sources - however all they say is that Shamir's website contains these claims - so yes, that passes V, however neither TOI nor Tablet endorse these claims. Per FRIND we should prefer a discussion analyzing Shamir's claims as opposed to merely quoting them. It is unclear that Shamir's claims regarding his biography are due, and we should prefer sources analyzing the claims and/or reporting in their own voice.Icewhiz (talk) 11:33, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
 * And who said anything about ToI or Tablet "endorsing" anything? Nothing in FRIND supports your view on this, nothing says anything about a source needed to analyze what somebody says about themselves. Yall objected to citing Shamir directly, and even if that is a bit silly fine, that is no longer the case. Independent reliable sources for what our article says (that Shamir says this about himself) have been provided. Multiple ones. And also, the source that youve argued is reliable and not editorial below (Yemini) seems to accept as fact that Shamir was a paratrooper.  nableezy  - 14:21, 19 July 2019 (UTC)
 * There is no evidence Shamir was a paratrooper in Paratrooper Brigade, or was a BBC journalist. These were simply inserted by himself into this article when he was editing it, and he linked to his own website. These are fringe claims (if he was a paratrooper, it would be easy to verify in Israel - the claim is prima facie absurd, and the other paratroopers would know him, while he has more or less zero trace of any life in Israel beyond the Wikipedia article he wrote, or had written, in several languages). So the issue is whether it is DUE or not to include his personal claims, that he added to this article for self-promotion, and sourced to a personal website. Avaya1 (talk) 17:55, 20 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I dont know why you seem to be insisting on replying to an argument nobody is making. The article does not say he was a paratrooper. It does not say he worked for BBC. It does say that he says this about himself. And that is not sourced to his personal website. That is sourced to the Times of Israel and Tablet. Reliable secondary sources cover Shamir's claims about himself. That makes it DUE weight to include those claims as his claims. I have zero interest in what Shamir did or did not do to this article, right now the material is not sourced to his website, it is sourced to ToI and Tablet, and if you continue to refuse to acknowledge that what is in the article is reliably sourced to secondary sources then I dont see how we are supposed to agree on anything when we cant agree on what is indisputably factually true.  nableezy  - 00:05, 23 July 2019 (UTC)
 * These are problematic claims which are prima facie highly improbable, whose origin is this website and likely this Wikipedia article itself, which Shamir originally wrote. The question is whether it is DUE to include these claims. That's not resolved simply because a TOI article has almost word for word copied the original text here, which seems to be circular reporting. On Wikipedia articles project-wide, there is general consensus against including every wild claim made a person, unless there is some sense they are DUE (notable) or real. Here in particular it's a problem, as it seems Shamir edited into the article himself when he wrote it, and sourced to a website which is full of the wildest claims imaginable and fringe conspiracy theories. As for the discussion in general, if we can't resolve it, I guess we'll have to make a RFC about it later?  Avaya1 (talk) 12:15, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Again, you are answering arguments nobody has made and are wholly irrelevant. The material is not sourced to Shamir's website, it is sourced to the Times of Israel and to Tablet. DUE weight is determined by whether or not sources consider the material to have weight, and you have now two reliable secondary sources cited for the material in the article. Please stop misrepresenting the situation here. Nothing being challenged here is sourced to Shamir's personal website. Tablet and the Times of Israel are the sources, and if you would like to challenge their reliability then by all means do that. Would be interesting to watch.  nableezy  - 16:20, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The material is from Shamir's personal website statements, via this article, where Shamir introduced it. It was reprinted as circular reporting with identical wording, but there is no indication that it is WP:DUE. The fact the claims are highly fringe and backed by nothing contribute to the discussion of whether it is DUE to include them, simply because they were written on his website, and then reprinted (including on here). IF there was some evidence for the claims themselves, they might be somehow notable enough to include. Avaya1 (talk) 04:08, 26 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes, you have said that same irrelevant nonsense repeatedly. It remains nonsense. The sources here are Times of Israel and Tablet. Not Shamir's website. DUE is shown by the citations to two reliable third party sources. Please actually read WP:DUE as it does not support what you repeatedly claim it does. Everything else you have written is entirely irrelevant.  nableezy  - 14:23, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

RFC: should we include claims by Shamir that he was a paratrooper and worked for the BBC and Haaretz which originate from his personal website
Should we include claims by Shamir that he was a paratrooper and worked for the BBC and Haaretz, which originate from his personal website? Avaya1 (talk) 21:08, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

I argued that the claims were sourced to Shamir's own website, and were originally inserted by an editor (Charles Godwin) who likely could be Shamir himself given the account's editing history, similarity to Shamir's writing style, and shared interest/views, before an account called Israel Shamir continued to edit war to keep this content in the article.

I argued that inclusion of this content is WP:UNDUE, as there is no evidence for these claims, as well as reason to doubt they are true, and they are made by a source known for unreliability and self-promotion, according to reliable sources. For example, when Shamir was editing this article himself, he was removing the fact he was a Swedish citizen.

On the other hand,  nableezy  argued that inclusion of the claims is WP:DUE due to their being reprinted by Times of Israel here. Times of Israel/AP is a WP:RS, so, he argues this would fulfill the criteria for inclusion of the claims at least as claims (with the proviso "Shamir says" before them), under Wikipedia' policy's on WP:DUE. (In addition, Tablet has discussed some of these claims, although in an article which was concluding that Shamir has invented his biography.)

I counter-argued that this seems to be likely to be circular reporting from (likely) Shamir's original edits, as the wording is almost the same as the text in the version of Wikipedia at the time the article was written.

On the other hand,  nableezy  counter-argued that the text was likely directly from Shamir's website, and therefore wouldn't constitute circular reporting. Avaya1 (talk) 21:08, 26 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Include - That Shamir claims to have been a paratrooper is reliably sourced to multiple secondary sources. They are not presented as anything more than the claims of Shamir. The article does not present anything that is not in dispute in any way, Shamir in fact does claim such and such about himself and those claims have been noted by sources that cover him. The arguments to remove have been based on nothing resembling any Wikipedia policy. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 03:15, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Ill also add, in addition to the Times of Israel and Tablet the Jerusalem Post as a source for Shamir claiming this. When sources discuss Shamir they include that he says this about himself and that there is no independent verification of it. That is exactly what is done here. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 21:38, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * JPOST prefaced with "Shamir has a shadowy past and present that is hard to pin down or confirm. His official biography on his website says..."Icewhiz (talk) 01:57, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Remove - this is sourced to Shamir's website and secondary sources that say Shamir's website says this. As such, this is not independent of Shamir, and fails WP:FRIND. We should stick to sources that have investigated this themselves. Shamir's personal history is very much a matter of contention and we should avoid repeating possible fringe claims.Icewhiz (talk) 05:06, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Please dont be dishonest here, it is not sourced to Shamir's website. The only sources used for this are Tablet Magazine and Times of Israel. Shamir's website is not cited and claims that it is are dishonest. Beyond that, you are fully aware that a source that you say is reliable says flat out as a fact that Shamir was in fact a paratrooper in Israel. The article doesnt even go that far, it only reports what ToI and Tablet report, and it does not use Shamir's website for those claims in any way. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 14:28, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Please strike your personal attack. RolandR raised serious doubts in regards to the rather dated Maariv piece. ToI is reporting on what the website says. Tablet is reporting on what Shamir says about himself prefacing it with "It is hard to pin down the truth, but Shamir said he was born.... As such ToI and Tablet are merely reporting on what Shamir said - and cast doubt on what he says. UNDUE and WP:FRIND concerns as well (as this is merely attributed reporting on what Shamir says if himself).Icewhiz (talk) 14:53, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Concerns you never addressed and until now you were on record saying that was a reliable source. So its only a reliable source when its used for saying negative things about Shamir? Okay ... What personal attack? Saying that the claim that this is sourced to Shamir's website is dishonest? It is dishonest, as the claims are not sourced to Shamir's website and claiming that they are is designed to distort the record for other commenters. WP:FRIND???? Have you even read that section? Here, Ill help"The best sources to use when describing fringe theories, and in determining their notability and prominence, are independent reliable sources. In particular, the relative space that an article devotes to different aspects of a fringe theory should follow from consideration primarily of the independent sources. Points that are not discussed in independent sources should not be given any space in articles. Independent sources are also necessary to determine the relationship of a fringe theory to mainstream scholarly discourse."Hello? Times of Israel and Tablet are independent reliable sources. Those are the sources here, not Shamir's website as you continue to portray. Whats it called when somebody says something that is flat out not true? Yeah, not a personal attack. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 15:27, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * ToI and Tablet quote Shamir for this. Tablet prefaces this with "It is hard to pin down the truth, but Shamir said he was born.... Tablet is an independent reliable secondary source - however quotes of Shamir within the Tablet interview - are not independent of Shamir. Given that Tablet chose to preface those claims with "It is hard to pin down the truth should give us pause - and affect our presentation of this (if we are to present this at all - Shamir is notable for his writings - not his early life).Icewhiz (talk) 15:53, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Ok, and so what they quote Shamir for this? That establishes weight. And notability, once again, has literally zero to do with the content of articles. Our article does not say anything those sources do not directly support, namely that Shamir says this about himself. Please stop making up policy, Tablet and ToI are in fact independent of Shamir and by their giving weight to Shamir's claims, as Shamir's claims, necessitates our giving weight to those claims, as claims, here. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 16:38, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Interviews and/or website quotes are not independent. It is quite curious that while introducing these sources to replace the website you did not introduce what is independent of Shamir in them - e.g. "It is hard to pin down the truth, but Shamir said he was born... - which prefaces the claim.Icewhiz (talk) 02:11, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

 * Remove not reliable (obviously), and no, that they quote Shamir says this does not establish weight.--Calthinus (talk) 18:24, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * WP:WEIGHT says exactly the opposite. The sources consider Shamir's claims about his own life relevant to discussing him. It would be helpful if people stopped asserting policy and started quoting it. Here's a quote for you"Thus, when talking about pseudoscientific topics, we should not describe these two opposing viewpoints as being equal to each other. While pseudoscience may in some cases be significant to an article, it should not obfuscate the description of the mainstream views of the scientific community. Any inclusion of pseudoscientific views should not give them undue weight. The pseudoscientific view should be clearly described as such. An explanation of how scientists have reacted to pseudoscientific theories should be prominently included. This helps us to describe differing views fairly. This also applies to other fringe subjects, for instance, forms of historical revisionism that are considered by more reliable sources to either lack evidence or actively ignore evidence, such as claims that Pope John Paul I was murdered, or that the Apollo moon landing was faked."We discuss views that are not widely held when they are discussed in reliable sources and we clarify that they are not confirmed. That is exactly what is happening here. People making vague waves to policies that explicitly contradict their arguments would do well to read the policies they claim to understand. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 20:55, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

 * No, Wikipedia should not be used to promote a professional antisemite and genocide denier's farcical (if not fantastical) claims about himself, claims for which no corroborating evidence exists.TheTimesAreAChanging (talk) 16:17, 1 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Include Include ATTRIBUTED as his claim, obviously not in WP:VOICE. The entire 'backstory' is explicitly stated as being highly unreliable. The unreliability of the claims appears to be part of the story and character of the man. Why exclude these elements when everything else about the backstory is questionable? Sources have reported these questionable claims and seemingly devoted more copy to them than to any 'reliable' accounts of his backstory. Pincrete (talk) 09:19, 14 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Exclude from lead; WP:UNDUE given the weak sourcing and coverage (secondary sources do discuss it, but don't seem to give it much credence, which means it's not a very important part of his biography.) It could possibly be mentioned in the body using secondary sources, but that's a question for WP:DUE, and it would be important to make the skepticism of the secondary sources clear rather than just trusting his self-description on his website directly. --Aquillion (talk) 16:43, 22 August 2019 (UTC)

Extended discussion

 * On a procedural note, please Don't bludgeon the process - there is no need to respond to each !vote here with walls of text.Icewhiz (talk) 21:13, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * If people are going to make bald assertions about our policies or the sources that are flatly contradicted by what the policies or the sources say then that should be pointed out. You still have not retracted the claim that Shamir's personal website is a source used for this. That straightforward factually untrue claim is still being used to influence people commenting on the topic. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 21:36, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Read what I wrote again - "this is sourced to Shamir's website and secondary sources that say Shamir's website says this". Our article was indeed using the website directly - and these citations have been replaced by secondary sourcing reporting on the website - attributing these bio details to Shamir, and not in their own voice. Sources preface this attribited reporting with doubt on details (e.g. JPost "Shamir has a shadowy past and present that is hard to pin down or confirm. His official biography on his website says...". Icewhiz (talk) 02:05, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * is sourced to Shamir's website remains a straightforward untruth. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 09:20, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

September comments
We can leave this open longer. So far it seems 5 editors including myself are against inclusion of the claims of Shamir's personal/website (or at least Aquillion says claims need adequate skepticism to be included), and 2 editors including Nabeezy are in favour of inclusion so long as it is not written in the editorial voice.Avaya1 (talk) 23:31, 9 September 2019 (UTC)

problematic sources
I dont really have a problem with most of what has been removed, but some of it is a problem, but Ill keep that discussion up a section. But beyond that, there are a number of substandard sources being used here to make fairly serious charges against Shamir. Regardless of what you think about Shamir, WP:BLP still applies to this and every other biography of a living person we have. I plan on removing the following, and what is cited to it: <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 20:19, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Manfred Ropschitz in IndyMedia - open publishing site, not a reliable source
 * Ben Dror-Yemini in Makor Rishon - opinion piece
 * Mikhail Agursky in Jerusalem Post - opinion piece
 * James Ball in The Guardian - comment is free section
 * Andrew Brown in The Guardian - comment is free section
 * Socialist Viewpoint - editorial
 * Ben Dror 2003 is not an opinion piece AFAICT (reads as a full length feature, includes response by Shamir), and it is in Maariv - at the time a major newspaper (a decade+ later bought by Makor Rishon - which has the archive). Ball is in the Daily Beast, not the Guardian. Brown, Guardian staff, would seem to be a WP:NEWSBLOG.Icewhiz (talk) 20:37, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The Yemini piece is written in the first person. Sorry for mixing up the publication on that. Im not removing Ball in the Daily Beast, I am removing this Comment is Free piece. Brown is writing in the comment is free section, and WP:BLPSPS requires News Blogs that are subject to the newspaper's full editorial control. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 21:02, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
 * The Socialist Viewpoint piece is quite definitely not an editorial. I can tell you, with absolute authority, that it was written as a letter from a reader who disagreed with the magazine's publication of articles by Shamir (subsequently removed), and was not originally intended for publication. RolandR (talk) 09:45, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Sorry, opinion from a non-reliable source then. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 18:09, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Mapam spokesman
That seems like something that should be more easily documented in Hebrew. Same for any actual employment by Haaretz. Is there any actual confirmation or denial of either of those facts that anybody can find? <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 03:41, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
 * There's little coverage in Hebrew (though the name makes this difficult). The only source (well - aside from a 1994 piece on Shamir's website in Hebrew) I see that treats this as factual (searching in Hebrew for "Israel Shamir"+Mapam (in two spelling variants)) - Ben-Dror Yemini - that you seem to think is an op-ed (I strongly disagree) which has " יאיר צבן, לשעבר שר ויו"ר מפ"ם, זוכר שהוא היה בתפקיד זמן קצר בלבד." and "כדי לבקר את אמו, נאלץ ישראל שמיר לחצות את הקו הירוק. והוא אכן עושה זאת. מפגש מוזר. האם פעילה ב"מולדת" - הבן מפיץ תעמולה אנטישמית. "אני שייכת לתנועת 'מולדת' מיום הקמתה", אומרת אסתר שמרלר-לומובסקי. "אני מתנחלת. העניין של ישראל קשה לי. בתור אמא, אני מעדיפה לא להוסיף. הוא קיבל חינוך ציוני. הוא היה פעיל ציוני. עשה דברים גדולים. מאוד כואב לי מה שקרה לו. הייתי רוצה להבין בעצמי. אני חושבת שזו מחלה. בעצם זו מחלה נפשית. הוא נראה שפוי. הוא לא מופרע. הוא כאילו חכם. אבל משהו לא בריא". היא מדברת על סף בכי." (op-eds don't generally interview former politicians and the subject's mother (+ the subject himself at the bottom, and a bunch of other stuff) - do they?). Icewhiz (talk) 06:08, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I think its an opinion piece because it opens with a personal anecdote. News articles dont generally talk about conversations the author had with a Palestinian friend of theirs. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 06:17, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
 * It's not an op-ed - it looks like it is in a weekend supplement/magazine section - a multi-page feature (as opposed to dry reporting in the main section - which are are short and terse) - these sections often have first person reporting and anecdotes (and not all the piece in first person) - but are generally treated as secondary sources. While I strongly disagree with you this is an op-ed - I'm not particularly inclined to discuss this further (as I think there are sufficient sources without this). Icewhiz (talk) 06:22, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
 * I note that Yemini also claims that Shamir was a candidate for the Knesset for the Moked party in 1974 (ב-74' הוא היה גם מועמד לכנסת השמינית, במקום לא ריאלי, ברשימת "מוקד", שבראשה עמד מאיר פעיל). This is quite simply untrue, as can be easily found by looking at the list of candidates published by the Israel Democracy Institute. I don't know whether the error was Yemini's own, or whether he was misinformed by Shamir; but this does raise serious question marks about the reliability of the article as a source for factual statements about Shamir's activity. RolandR (talk) 10:26, 18 July 2019 (UTC)

Alan Dershowitz
I realize that nobody wants to be seen as "defending" an antisemite or Holocaust denier, but we still have to follow some basic standards here. The line from Dershowitz is accurate, but the context it is used for here is SYNTH, and the op-ed is about an entirely different subject (two academics endorsing a book by Gilad Atzmon), and it doesnt really accurately portray what Shamir wrote. Theres plenty of accurate criticisms to include here, you dont need to include the edge out-of-context things to get the point across. <small style="border: 1px solid;padding:1px 3px;white-space:nowrap"> nableezy  - 22:14, 21 January 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Israel Shamir


text:
User:MKSpectre

Template:Infobox Game

title: User:MKSpectre


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eboai

Elboai was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE. 4 votes to delete. Postdlf 04:04, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Eboai
Letter E deadenders, continued. Call me an Eboai, maybe, but this looks like a neologism, or original research, or an advert (notice that the article starts with an external link), and intrinsically POV, don't know which, but whatever it is -- out. — Bill 21:31, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete trollcruft. -- WOT 21:43, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Troll neologism. We already have Internet troll article, there is no need for POV near-duplicates. jni 07:57, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Trollogism?
 * Delete: trollvertising. Wile E. Heresiarch 18:48, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eboai


text:
Mentone, Texas

Mentone is an unincorporated town in and the county seat of Loving County, Texas, United States. As of 2020, the population was 22, up from a population of 19 in 2010, almost one-quarter of the county's 82 people at the time.

Mentone was, until recent years, the least-populated unincorporated county seat in the United States, but lost that distinction with the 2010 census to Gann Valley, South Dakota, which had a population of 14. Mentone was designated a Recorded Texas Historic Landmark in 1967 as the "Smallest County Seat in Texas".

History
Named after Menton, France, by a French surveyor, present-day Mentone is actually the second such named community in Loving County; an earlier Mentone was founded south of the current town in 1893, but was abandoned in 1905. A second town on that site was called Juanita and then Porterville, but was deserted anew when Mentone was re-established in 1931, with most residents moving to the new town. The town on the current site was named Ramsey before being renamed. During its heyday, Mentone boasted five cafes, five gas stations, two hotels, two drugstores, two recreation halls, two barbershops, a dance hall, a machine shop, and a dry cleaner. It also had its own newspaper, the Mentone Monitor, which published from 1932 to 1935.

After reaching a high population mark around 600 residents in the 1930s, the population has declined ever since, and in 2000, it had only 15 people, "more or less", according to National Geographic (the total population of Loving County itself, as of 2020, was 64. ).

Today, according to National Geographic, Mentone contains little more than a courthouse, two stop signs, a gas station, a post office, and a school building (which has since been demolished, as enrollment fell to just two pupils and was merged with nearby Wink schools in the 1970s). A volunteer fire department serves the town, but no hospitals or cemeteries are there, and no doctors or lawyers. Until 1988, Mentone had no potable water of its own; local wells yielded water with a high mineral content that clogged pipes and killed grass. Drinking water was trucked in from Pecos, 23 mi away, until improvements started in 2010 that guaranteed the potability of Mentone's water.

Mentone's tiny church (the oldest building in Loving County) is visited every Saturday by a minister from a nearby town who holds interdenominational services there.

Mentone was the home of the first elected female sheriff in Texas, Edna Reed Clayton DeWees, who was appointed to the job in January 1945, then won an election to continue in the office through 1947. She never carried a firearm, and reported only two arrests during her entire term. This is not unusual in Loving County; since the inception of the county, fewer than 200 criminal cases have been filed in District Court. Later, DeWees returned as county and district clerk, a job she held from 1965 to 1986. In Loving County, the posts of county clerk, probate clerk, and district clerk are managed by the same official. DeWees died January 22, 2009, having survived her husbands George Clayton and Lawrence DeWees.

Free Town Project
In February 2006, Mentone became the focus of a New York Times article detailing an alleged attempt by Lawrence Pendarvis, a man convicted of 129 counts of possession of child pornography, Bobby Emory, and Don Duncan to "take over" the town and Loving County. According to the article, Pendarvis and his associates, part of the "Free Town Project", planned to buy parcels of land in the county, then move in enough of their supporters to outvote earlier residents and take control of local government.

According to a website for Pendarvis' movement, their objectives were to "Remove oppressive regulations... and stop enforcement of laws prohibiting victimless acts among consenting adults" Additionally, the group sought "to ensure that the sheriff's office or the town police are never allowed to waste valuable town resources... to oppress our residents by the investigation or enforcement of violations of laws that punish truancy, drug trafficking, prostitution, obscenity, organ trafficking, and other victimless 'crimes'."

Although Pendarvis, Emory, and Duncan claimed to have legally bought 126 acre in Loving County in 2005, and registered to vote accordingly, the county sheriff, Billy Burt Hopper, determined that this land had been sold to a different buyer. Misdemeanor charges were filed against the three men, who had left the state by this time. Pendarvis claimed to have a cancelled check to prove his purchase of the land in question, but no deed was ever produced, and the original landowners denied having sold land to Pendarvis or his associates. The three were subsequently featured on a "wanted" poster issued by Sheriff Hopper and the local Texas Rangers (displayed at Hopper's office), and threatened with arrest should they return to Loving County.

As of 2017, Pendarvis' website is no longer operational.

Geography
Mentone is located in southwestern Loving County at an elevation of 2684 ft. It is situated on State Highway 302, 77 mi west of Odessa and 22 mi north of Pecos. According to the U.S. Census Bureau, the Mentone CDP has an area of 0.4 sqkm, all land. The town is 1.5 mi east of the Pecos River.

Climate
Mentone experiences an arid desert climate with hot summers and cool winters. Due to Mentone's aridity, the diurnal temperature variation is substantial, and helps lower nighttime temperatures. Most precipitation falls in the summer and early fall.

2020 census
Since 2020, Mentone has been included in the larger Mentone, Texas, CDP, a census-designated place delineated by the United States Census Bureau for its purposes in compiling, storing and analyzing census data. Because of this, demographics taken from this census apply to the entire CDP and not just the town proper.

As of the 2020 United States census, there were 22 people, 7 households, and 3 families residing in the CDP.

Education
Mentone is served by the Wink-Loving Independent School District. Loving County's school system was closed and consolidated into Wink's ISD in 1972 because the enrollment had fallen to two students. All of Loving County is zoned to Odessa College.

title: Mentone, Texas