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Talk:History of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict

It should start with the already existing article of jews in otoman empire.

The article, which is of a topic that is highly sensative, was improperly merged two months ago without having many people participate in such a decision.

Although it was a "merge" and not a "delete" to this content, in practice, it was a deletion of the content, since the content wasn't really fully merged to the article Timeline of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict.

Since the content of this article was created by quite a few people over the years, I ask anyone whom is considering a merge or a deletion of this content make sure that a peroper discussion be held in the future before making such a decision. WikiJunkie (talk) 20:43, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 May 2021
It’s not considered as a conflict when one party is using weapons to kill innocent people. Its terrorism! Israeli’s are nazis! 111.119.188.9 (talk) 17:45, 16 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. ―  Qwerfjkl  (please use  on reply) 19:21, 16 May 2021 (UTC)

Grammatical correction request on 19 May 2021
Towards the bottom of the "1993–2000: Oslo peace process" section, I believe that "In return for their release Israel sent over the medicine which saved his life and freed a dozen of Palestinian prisoners including Sheikh Ahmad Yassin." should be "In return for their release Israel sent over the medicine which saved his life and freed a dozen Palestinian prisoners including Sheikh Ahmad Yassin." (removing an extraneous "of"). NULLIF (talk) 15:59, 19 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Eggishorn  (talk) (contrib) 16:59, 19 May 2021 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 September 2022
"change The history of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict began with the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948. to The history of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict began before the establishment of the state of Israel in 1948." 123.243.38.121 (talk) 07:02, 23 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  Madeline  ( part of me ) 14:54, 23 September 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 October 2022
Two instances of sentences not starting with an upper case letter.

1. In section "1993–2000: Oslo peace process", "the agreement marked the conclusion of the first stage of" should be changed to "The agreement marked the conclusion of the first stage of".

2. In the section "2000-05: Second Intifada", "in addition, Hamas has openly stated" should be changed to "In addition, Hamas has openly stated". Cvrts (talk) 20:44, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done lol1VNIO 👻 ( I made a mistake?  talk to me ) 22:11, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 October 2023
Under The conflict > 2020s, change initially fired At least 2,200 to initially fired at least 2,200 (grammar). V1vipediaa (talk) 01:37, 11 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ 💜 melecie   talk  - 02:02, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

bias?
I’m wondering about why Palestines violence is labeled as terrorism in this article but Israel’s is considered a “military operation”? The connotation of these words are obviously problematic when you’re in search of unbiased facts. This is in reference to the beginning of the article, “The conflict has been marked by violence, including terrorist attacks by Palestinian militants and military operations by Israel”. AcuriousKat (talk) 09:58, 12 October 2023 (UTC)

 * @AcuriousKat also see the 1978 UN report of the Palestine history part 1 where it references both sides as terrorizing each other.
 * https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947
 * "This campaign of terror against Palestinian Arabs and the British reached such proportions that Churchill, a strong supporter of Zionist aims and at that time Prime Minister, stated in the House of Commons:
 * “If our dreams for zionism are to end in the smoke of assassins’ pistols and our labours for its future are to produce a new set of gangsters worthy of Nazi Germany, many like myself will have to reconsider the position we have maintained so consistently and so long in the past. If there is to be any hope of a peaceful and successful future for zionism, these wicked activities must cease and those responsible for them must be destroyed, root and branch" Freerocks (talk) 23:13, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly. They have both been "waging war" against each other or they are both "terrorizing" each other. To slant the language against Palestine when Israel has killed more civilians and destroyed more civilian infrastructure (prior to 2023) is blatant bias and should be corrected.
 * https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties XavierThunderheart (talk) 06:45, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * "My thoughts exactly" in response to the first paragraph under "bias?" - Not "my thoughts exactly" in response to the Churchill quote. XavierThunderheart (talk) 06:48, 22 February 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 21 October 2023
1. Revise intro to include information from the section "World War I and aftermath (1917–20)" regarding McMahon–Hussein Correspondence in 1915. And secret side treaty with France, Sykes–Picot Agreement, reneging on the previous agreement. And also reassurances in 1918 from Britain to the arabs that their original agreement was still valid.

Change

"The history of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict traces back to the late 19th century when Zionists sought to establish a homeland for the Jewish people in Ottoman-controlled Palestine. The Balfour Declaration of 1917, issued by the British government, endorsed the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine, which led to an influx of Jewish immigrants to the region. "

to

"The history of the Israeli–Palestinian conflict traces back to the late 19th century when Zionists sought to establish a homeland for the Jewish people in Ottoman-controlled Palestine. During World War I, the McMahon–Hussein Correspondence was formed as an agreement in 1915 with Arab leaders to grant sovereignty to Arab lands under Ottoman control to form an Arab state after the war in exchange for the Great Arab Revolt against the Ottomans. However a year later in 1916, a secret treaty known as the Sykes–Picot Agreement between the United Kingdom and France would effectively divide the Ottoman provinces outside the Arabian Peninsula into areas of British and French control and influence.

In 1917, the British government issued the Balfour Declaration to endorsed the idea of a Jewish homeland in Palestine, which led to an influx of Jewish immigrants to the region. To reassure the Arabs of their original agreement, a special message sent on 4 January 1918 from the British Government, carried personally by Commander David George Hogarth to Sherif Hussein, stated that “the Entente Powers are determined that the Arab race shall be given full opportunity of once again forming a nation in the world … So far as Palestine is concerned, we are determined that no people shall be subject to another”. *

 * https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947/

2. Change section title "World War I and aftermath (1917–20)"

to

"World War I and aftermath (1915–20)"

3. Add to end of section, "World War I and aftermath (1915–20)"

"A special message (of 4 January 1918) from the British Government, carried personally by Commander David George Hogarth to Sherif Husain, stated that “the Entente Powers are determined that the Arab race shall be given full opportunity of once again forming a nation in the world … So far as Palestine is concerned, we are determined that no people shall be subject to another”.

A 1978 UN report regarding the history of Palestine, made note that "acknowledgements that the British Government had not possessed the right “to dispose of Palestine” appeared decades after the commitments to the Arabs not only had been infringed by the Sykes-Picot agreement but, in disregard of the inherent rights and the wishes of the Palestinian people, the British Government had given Zionist leaders separate assurances regarding the establishment of a “national home for the Jewish people in Palestine”, an undertaking that sowed the seeds of prolonged conflict in Palestine."" *

"Part I, published in 1978, offers historical background of the question of Palestine reaching as far back as 1915. This part surveys in detail the period 1917 to 1947, during most of which Palestine was governed under a mandate granted by the League of Nations." Freerocks (talk) 20:23, 21 October 2023 (UTC)
 * https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/part-i-1917-1947/ **
 * The above link to "Part I 1917-1947" is referenced at https://www.un.org/unispal/history2/origins-and-evolution-of-the-palestine-problem/, where it states that
 * This has been pending for over a month with nobody willing to review it. Deactivating as stale. * Pppery * it has begun... 21:50, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 23 October 2023
Please place the correct map of Palestine from the 1947 agreement. 125.209.173.220 (talk) 12:53, 23 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Please provide a replacement image. Additionally, the current map appears to be correct. Which parts of it do you believe have issues? Liu1126 (talk) 21:25, 26 October 2023 (UTC)

Citation and/or clarification needed for assertion in section Intercommunal Violence in Mandatory Palestine
The phrase "lands purchased legally by Zionist agencies from absentee landlords" needs clarification and if possible citation.

What laws were invoked to establish the legality of the purchase and what was the prior ownership of the lands purchased ?

Was purchase sanctioned by approval of British laws asserted as their claim of conquest arising from WW(I) or was it granted by laws of the ottoman empire with or without consideration of the informal tenure of previous nomadic occupiers or the fellahin ?

Surely there would be outrage at mandatory acquisition of property in many countries if the people dispossessed were not favoured (sic) by groups with a strong lobbying position. DaveDCJ (talk) 01:43, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

 * Please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Seawolf35 (talk - email) 18:47, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * This was a question I had when I read the text already in the article. I was asking if anyone has any information which would clarify what was meant. I don't have any sources which would let me make any clarification. Will search and update if I can find any, but meanwhile hoped establishing this question would be a hook on which anyone with better information could hang a clarification or improvement to what is currently published. DaveDCJ (talk) 22:28, 10 November 2023 (UTC)
 * Information in Wikipedia article https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine  documents that land was purchased through companies as a legal loophole to avoid the Ottoman empire laws against purchase of land by foreign Jews (see note 9 in same article - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine#cite_note-Adelman2008-9) or Ottoman citizen Jews (see note 10 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine#cite_note-10). The reference to purchase from absentee landlords is obscure. The article on Jewish land purchase in Palestine refers in paragraph 6 to the split of purchases around the 1930s and gives reference in note 14 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_land_purchase_in_Palestine#cite_note-FOOTNOTEHallbrook1981364-14) but that doesn't establish that the purchases from 1880s to 1920s were from absentee landowners.
 * Can anyone suggest sources which would establish or refute that the land purchases were from "absentee landowners" ?
 * Use of that terminology implies giving legitimacy to the overall approach of the Zionist movement towards creation of Israel. Should the sentence be truncated to omit that phrase ? DaveDCJ (talk) 23:21, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Says 'are' and should be 'is'
the southern part of which [IS] regarded as Palestine

The bit about Ottoman Syria has parentheses and there should be 'is' instead of 'are'. 2A00:23C6:1E82:8601:A8:9D3E:E00B:E012 (talk) 05:57, 19 November 2023 (UTC)

Is it a conflict?
There's no Israeli-Palestinian conflict. There's an Israeli occupation 197.151.112.142 (talk) 22:00, 18 January 2024 (UTC)

Palastine vs Israel main conflict
Talking about on this topic 37.111.155.209 (talk) 06:08, 12 May 2024 (UTC)

Biased language should be replaced and moderated.
As scribes for the history of the world in our current time, we must be diligent to record only facts and leave opinion for other publications.

As one example, the sentence, “The conflict has been marked by violence, including terrorist attacks by Palestinian militants and military operations by Israel.”, is one example. A less biased statement could be, “The conflict has been marked by violence, including militaristic attacks by both Palestinian and Israel.”

From a Palestinian point of view, Israel is both the aggressor and terrorist. BatmanA113 (talk) 15:13, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 June 2024
addtional = additional 2603:8000:D300:3650:6555:4BA5:D8BD:D8BA (talk) 02:49, 22 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Done Sean.hoyland (talk) 03:55, 22 June 2024 (UTC)


text: Category:Transwiki candidates

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Category:Transwiki candidates


text:
Philemon Dickinson

Philemon Dickinson (April 5, 1739 – February 4, 1809) was an American lawyer and politician from Trenton, New Jersey. As a brigadier general of the New Jersey militia, he was one of the most effective militia officers of the American Revolutionary War. He was also a Continental Congressman from Delaware and a United States Senator from New Jersey.

Background
Philemon Dickinson was born at "Crosiadore," near Trappe, Maryland on April 5, 1739, a younger brother of Founding Father John Dickinson. When he was one, his family moved to Delaware. He was educated by a private tutor until he went to the University of Pennsylvania, from where he graduated in 1759. He then studied law, and was admitted to the bar, but never practiced. In 1767, Dickinson moved to Trenton to an estate called "The Hermitage". On July 14, 1767, he married his first cousin, Mary Cadwalader (1746–1781). They had two children; Samuel (1770–1837) and Mary (1768–1822).

Military service
Dickinson served as an officer during the American Revolutionary War, rising to the rank of Major General in the New Jersey Militia.

At the beginning of the Revolutionary War in 1775 he was commissioned a colonel of the Hunterdon County militia. In 1776 he was elected as a delegate to New Jersey's Revolutionary provincial congress. In January 1777 Dickinson led 400 of his militia in a raid on a British foraging party near Somerset Court House, New Jersey, capturing about forty wagons of supplies and several prisoners. In June 1777 he was appointed major general in command of all New Jersey militia, a post he held throughout the rest of the war.

In November 1777 Dickinson led 1,400 men in a raid on Staten Island. While the attack was expected by Loyalist General Skinner and repulsed, Dickinson's party killed five and took 24 prisoners. Dickinson took several New Jersey Volunteers prisoner, including Lieutenant Jacob Van Buskirk, Lieutenant Edward Earle and Surgeon John Hammell.

Dickinson's militia took part in the Battle of Monmouth in 1778, helping obstruct the retreat of the British to New York. When his cousin John Cadwalader dueled General Thomas Conway on July 4, 1778, Dickinson was Cadwalader's second.

Post Revolution Public Service
In 1782 and 1783, he represented Delaware at the Continental Congress. In 1783-84 he was elected to the New Jersey Legislative Council from Hunterdon County where he served as Vice-President of Council both years. He was a member of the commission that selected the site for the national capital in Washington, D.C., in 1784. When William Paterson resigned from the United States Senate, Dickinson was chosen by New Jersey to finish Paterson's term. He served in the senate from November 13, 1790, to March 3, 1793.

Death
After his service in Congress, he returned to look after his estates until he died on February 4, 1809, at his home, and was buried at Friends Burying Ground in Trenton.

title: Philemon Dickinson


text:
Professional Ski Instructors of America & American Association of Snowboard Instructors

The Professional Ski Instructors of America and American Association of Snowboard Instructors (PSIA-AASI) is a nonprofit education association involved in ski instruction. PSIA-AASI establishes certification standards for snowsports instructors and develops education materials.

PSIA-AASI supports instructional programs in alpine skiing, snowboarding, telemark skiing, cross-country skiing, and para-alpine skiing.

PSIA-AASI’s national office is in Lakewood, Colorado, and there are eight regional divisions across the country: Central, Eastern, Intermountain, Northern Intermountain, Northern Rocky Mountain, Northwest, Rocky Mountain, and Western.


text: Category:Zanzibar

title: Category:Zanzibar


text:
Category:Private equity firms

This category is intended to include private-equity firms, but excludes those firms that could more correctly be categorized as venture capital firms.

title: Category:Private equity firms


text:
Charles Sackville, 6th Earl of Dorset

Charles Sackville, 6th Earl of Dorset and 1st Earl of Middlesex, KG (24 January 1643 – 29 January 1706) was an English poet and courtier.

Early life
Sackville was born on 24 January 1643, son of Richard Sackville, 5th Earl of Dorset (1622–1677). His mother was the former Lady Frances Cranfield, sister and heiress of the 3rd Earl of Middlesex, to whose estates he succeeded in 1674, being created Baron Cranfield, of Cranfield in the County of Middlesex, and Earl of Middlesex in 1675. He succeeded to his father's estates and title in August 1677. He was educated privately, and spent some time abroad with a private tutor, returning to England shortly before the Restoration.

Career

During King Charles II's first Parliament, Sackville sat for East Grinstead in Sussex. He had no taste for politics, however, but won a reputation at Whitehall as a courtier and a wit.

He bore his share in the excesses for which Sir Charles Sedley and Lord Rochester were notorious. In 1662, Sackville and his brother Edward, with three other gentlemen, were indicted for the robbery and murder of a tanner named Hoppy. The defence was that they were in pursuit of thieves, and mistook Hoppy for a highwayman. They appear to have been acquitted, for when, in 1663, Sedley was tried for a gross breach of public decency in Covent Garden, Sackville, who had been one of the offenders, was (according to Samuel Pepys) asked by the Lord Chief Justice "whether he had so soon forgot his deliverance at that time, and that it would have more become him to have been at his prayers begging God's forgiveness than now running into such courses again."

Something in his character made his follies less obnoxious to the citizens than those of the other rakes, for he was never altogether unpopular, and Rochester is said to have told Charles II that "he did not know how it was, my Lord Dorset might do anything, yet was never to blame". In 1665 he volunteered to serve under the Duke of York in the Second Anglo-Dutch War. His famous song, "To All You Ladies Now at Land", was written, according to Prior, on the night before the victory gained over foggy Opdam off Harwich (3 June 1665). Samuel Johnson, with the remark that seldom any splendid story is wholly true, said that the Earl of Orrery had told him it was only retouched on that occasion.

In 1667, Pepys lamented that Sackville had lured Nell Gwyn away from the theatre, and that with Sedley the two kept merry house at Epsom. Next year the king was paying court to Gwyn, and her Charles the Second, as she called him (Charles Hart, a former lover, being her Charles the First), was sent on a "sleeveless errand" into France to be out of the way. In 1678 he narrowly escaped death at the hands of the deranged Earl of Pembroke, with whom he was engaged in a lawsuit.

His gaiety and wit secured the continued favour of Charles II, but did not especially recommend him to James II, who could not, moreover, forgive Dorset's lampoons on his mistress, Catherine Sedley, Countess of Dorchester. On James's accession, therefore, he retired from court. Sackville concurred in the invitation to William of Orange, who made him a Privy Counsellor, Lord Chamberlain (1689), and Knight of the Garter (1692). During William's absences between 1695 and 1698, Sackville was one of the Lords Justices of the Realm. In 1699 he was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society

He was a generous patron of men of letters. When John Dryden was dismissed from the laureateship, he made him an equivalent pension from his own purse. Matthew Prior, in dedicating his Poems on Several Occasions (1709) to Dorset's son, affirms that his opinion was consulted by Edmund Waller; that the Duke of Buckingham deferred the publication of his Rehearsal until he was assured that Dorset would not rehearse upon him again; and that Samuel Butler and William Wycherley both owed their first recognition to him. Prior's praise of Dorset is no doubt extravagant, but when his youthful follies were over he appears to have developed sterling qualities, and although the poems he has left are very few, none of them are devoid of merit. Dryden's Essay on Satire and the dedication of the Essay of Dramatick Poesie are addressed to him. Walpole (Catalogue of Noble Authors, iv.) says that he had as much wit as his first master, or his contemporaries Buckingham and Rochester, without the royal want of feeling, the duke's want of principles or the earl's want of thought; and Congreve reported of him when he was dying that he slabbered more wit than other people had in their best health.

Marriages

Sackville was three times married; he married his first wife Mary Bagot, widow of Charles Berkeley, Earl of Falmouth and daughter of Hervey Bagot and Dorothy Arden, in June 1674. He married his second wife, Mary Compton, daughter of James Compton, 3rd Earl of Northampton and Hon. Mary Noel, on 7 March 1685; they had two children together, Lionel Cranfield Sackville, 1st Duke of Dorset and Mary Sackville (1689–1705). He fathered two illegitimate daughters, one named Mary Sackville (died 26 June 1714), and the other with actress Alice Lee, named Anne Lee Sackville (1667–1738). He died at Bath in 1706.

Works
The fourth act of Pompey the Great, a tragedy translated out of French by certain persons of honour, is by Dorset. The satires for which Pope classed him with the masters in that kind seem to have been short lampoons, with the exception of A faithful catalogue of our most eminent ninnies (reprinted in Bibliotheca Curiosa, ed. Goldsmid, 1885). The Works of the Earls of Rochester, Roscommon and Dorset, the Dukes of Devonshire, Buckinghamshire, &c., with Memoirs of their Lives (1731) is catalogued (No. 20841) by H. G. Bohn in 1841. His poems are included in Anderson's and other collections of British poets.

Portrayal in film
Sackville is portrayed by Johnny Vegas as the invariable companion of fellow author and wit George Etherege (Tom Hollander) in the 2004 film The Libertine, an adaptation of Stephen Jeffreys' play of the same name, which depicts the Earl of Rochester and the orbit of the "Merry Gang".

title: Charles Sackville, 6th Earl of Dorset


text:
Charles Sackville

Charles Sackville may refer to:

 * Charles Sackville, 6th Earl of Dorset (1643–1706), English poet and courtier
 * Charles Sackville, 2nd Duke of Dorset (1711–1769), British politician, opera impresario and cricketer

title: Charles Sackville


text: Category:Nile

title: Category:Nile


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Miktiano

Miktiano was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete

Not notable constructed language - only gets one Google hit, its own home page, which does not explain who developed the language, why it was developed or who speaks it. --ZeroOne 21:01, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Article makes no argument as to this language's notability.  RickK 21:03, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non-notable auxlang attempt. Your basic euroclone. I've never heard of it, and I follow these things.   — Gwalla | Talk 21:51, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete Agree with comments above Jongarrettuk 00:51, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete conlang vanity. -- Cyrius|✎ 22:56, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. I consider myself well-informed on the topic of conlangs, and I've never heard of it. Wiwaxia 03:04, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text: User talk:83.97.128.37

title: User talk:83.97.128.37


text:
Talk:New mysterianism

Interesting article
Interesting article, and the first time I have heard of the phrase "new mysterianism." It seems that not only is such a view held wrt the mind-body problem (sometimes using Godel's Theorem) but also concerning the theory of knowledge. For example, it has been argued that we will never attain the one, true, complete theory of physics. -- 63.98.134.169 21:04, 26 September 2004

rewrite first para to refer to the hard problem
I've just changed this:
 * New Mysterianism is a philosophy proposing that certain problems (in particular, sentience it linked to consciousness earlier. - Aaron) will never be explained or at the least cannot be explained by the human mind at its current evolutionary stage. The terms sentience and consciousness are sometimes used interchangeably, but sentience could be described as simply the difficult-to-explain part of consciousness.

to this:
 * New Mysterianism is a philosophy proposing that certain problems will never be explained or at the least cannot be explained by the human mind at its current evolutionary stage. The problem most often referred to is the hard problem of consciousness; i.e. how to explain sentience and qualia and their interaction with consciousness.

I thought the 'sentience could be described ....' was a little POV (even though it's the position I hold myself). I ended up rewriting those couple of lines altogether. I'm not certain how to write the last few words. Any ideas on how to sum up the hard problem? Perhaps I should have said: 'the existence of qualia and also their interaction with the physical world'. Aaron McDaid 22:53, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Dr. Johnson and Mysterianism?
This article claims that Samuel Johnson held that certain ideas are beyond human understanding. That sounds true, but does anyone know a reference? It would be good for the article. If nobody can find a reference, I'll try to find one. 71.104.210.231 09:55, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

Cut questionable references
"Flanagan called them "the new mysterians" after the rock group Question Mark and the Mysterians. The term originated with the Japanese alien-invasion film The Mysterians." -- I rather doubt that the naming of this religious/philosophical position has anything whatsoever to do with the rock group or the Japanese film. If you wish to re-add either of these to the main article, please justify doing so by citing properly. Thanks. -- 201.50.248.179 16:12, 13 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't know about the Japanese alien-invasion film, but the rock group reference is correct. I've added that part back, with a proper citation. --Sapphic 18:56, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Ah, I've just discovered that the Japanese film is (purportedly) the origin of the name of the band, and thus has nothing directly to do with the philosophical term. It should be left out.  --Sapphic 18:59, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Pejorative, or does anyone call themselves "New Mysterians"?
I've encountered the term, outside of WP, entirely as a pejorative used by Dennett other who agree with him against non-reductionists or advocates of cognitive closure in the philosophy of mind. If it is used only (or for the most part) in this way, the article should indicate so, and perhaps be moved to a more neutral title. --Atemperman (talk) 01:47, 2 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Martin Gardner self-identified as such in the context of other people doing so. I've heard Dennett refer to "these so-called New Mysterians"... I don't think it's pejorative. 71.191.134.156 (talk) 11:16, 29 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Colin McGinn self-identifies as a mysterian. 173.48.211.58 (talk) 13:59, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

Pinker
Should we add Steven Pinker to the list of proponents? http://scienceblogs.com/cortex/2007/01/24/steven-pinker-is-a-new-mysteri/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.201.195.42 (talk) 20:35, 29 August 2012 (UTC)

No; Pinker is very clear in the citation given both here and in the wikipedia article that he is not only uncertain whether consciousness is mysterious to us, but that it is not intrinsically or essentially so; if it is mysterious, this is a contingent fact about our limited cognitive capacities, so that a greater (but still wholly naturalistic) mind might be able to understand ours. This is not much like the irreducible mysterianism of most of the other authors listed here. Hence, I urge consideration of removing Pinker from the list (or perhaps, giving a few short sentences explaining why he is (was?) at best a marginal and weak version of mysterian; indeed the latter might be better as it would better define the boundaries of mysterianism).ScottForschler (talk) 12:35, 4 November 2018 (UTC)

No Reference for Martin Gardener
That is all — Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.43.22.44 (talk) 17:04, 9 October 2013 (UTC)

Philosophy section
The section called 'Philosophy', which I assume is meant to give a proper account of the position, is hopeless. It needs to be scrapped and done properly (preferably without quoting Chomsky - he is not a philosopher of mind!) Ben Finn (talk) 23:10, 14 June 2015 (UTC)

Proponents?

 * I think some of the proponents cited are ill mentioned. There are also no sources for some of the people cited. The people include: John Searle (he insists on anti-dualism and a biological understanding of consciousness); Jerry Fodor (as far as I can know he is not working on issues of metaphysics of consciousness); — Preceding unsigned comment added by SebastianO1989 (talk • contribs) 12:14, 25 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Edward Witten has told me personally that he never really subscribed to this view (the interview cited in the footnote is very old) and certainly doesn’t now.Gmusser (talk) 17:44, 27 August 2021 (UTC)
 * The section definitely needs to be reviewed and reorganised. The entire idea of listing proponents and opponents is bizarre and isn't encyclopedic (see WP:NOTDIRECTORY).
 * I'd say any entries that can't be backed up with a reference need to be cut and those which are referenced need to be checked to make sure undue weight isn't given to passing comments or that their inclusion isn't based on some editor's own original interpretation of the views discussed. Any remaining entries need to be reorganised as prose which describes notable relevant views rather than just name dropping prominent people, and the resulting material should probably be integrated into . (Like the content pertaining to Noam Chompsky there.) – Scyrme (talk) 18:36, 8 January 2023 (UTC)

Dubious Categorisation
I'm not sure this article is accurate. I've read that Colin McGinn willingly describes himself as 'mysterian' but I've never encountered the use of the term in respect of any of the others on this list. Treat With Caution. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeeprs (talk • contribs) 11:52, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Is this related to the issue raised above ("Proponents?")? – Scyrme (talk) 18:48, 8 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Indeed. Jeeprs (talk) 23:33, 8 April 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:New mysterianism


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Täht and Taht

Täht and Taht was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete

Dictionary definitions. Thue | talk 21:04, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Dictdefs.   — Gwalla | Talk 21:55, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * What about moving it to Wiktionary? -- J3ff 23:02, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I put it in here because http://the-edge.blogspot.com/2004/09/tahts-all-folks.html I was tired of getting the "taht" respelt as "that" by every spelling checker in the world. mtaht - and thought it would help to have some independent reference to the word, as there is no one english word that means "star or planet". I'll try putting it in the wikidictionary

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


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Rose Creek

Rose Creek is an urban stream in San Diego, California that drains to Mission Bay. It flows in a north-to-south direction through Rose Canyon and San Clemente Canyon and their tributary canyons. Both Rose Creek and Rose Canyon are named for San Diego pioneer Louis Rose, who had a ranch in the canyon in the 1850s.

The Rose Creek watershed comprises approximately 36 square miles. On both sides of the creek in San Clemente Canyon there is a 467-acre city natural park called Marion Bear Park. The wetland where the creek historically entered Mission Bay is known as the Kendall Frost Marsh and is studied and managed by the University of California, San Diego. However, Rose Creek was diverted and channelized in the first half of the 20th century and now enters Mission Bay through an artificial channel further east.

The Rose Creek Watershed Alliance was created in 2005 to create a plan to improve the watershed. The plan was accepted by the City of San Diego in 2008. A volunteer group called the Friends of Rose Creek conducts periodic cleanups. The city has applied for a permit to clear vegetation from the lower creek channel in an effort to prevent flooding.

title: Rose Creek


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User:Wilfried Derksen/Liberal bibliography

This Liberal bibliography lists literature on liberalism as well as the liberal classics. Off course it is not a complete list. The list doesn't include literature on liberalism or liberal parties in specific countries.

Liberal classics
The authors are listed more or less chronological

 * Baruch Spinoza (Netherlands, 1632-1677) Ethics, systematic philosophy
 * Theologico-Political Treatise, 1670

 * John Locke (England, 1632-1704), Inherent rights, state under law
 * A Letter Concerning Toleration, 1689
 * The Second Treatise of Civil Government, 1689

 * Voltaire (France 1694-1778) History as Progress, rational government
 * Philosophical Dictionary

 * David Hume (United Kingdom, 1711-1776), Rational inquiry into society and econonomy
 * An Enquiry Concerning the Principles of Morals, 1751

 * Jean-Jacques Rousseau (France, 1712-1778) Social Contract, national self-determination, education
 * Du Contrat Social, 1762 (The Social Contract )

 * Denis Diderot (France, 1713-1784) and many others
 * Encyclopédie, ou dictionnaire raisonné des sciences, des arts et des métiers, 1751-1772 {Encyclopaedia, or Reasoned Dictionary of the Sciences, Arts, and Trades )

 * Adam Smith (United Kingdom, 1723-1790) Systematic political economy, captialism, technology as wealth
 * An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations, 1776
 * The Theory of Moral Sentiments, 1759

 * Charles de Montesquieu (France, 1689-1755) Philosophy of Law
 * De l'esprit des lois,1748 (Spirit of the Laws )

 * Immanuel Kant (Germany, 1724-1804)
 * Grundlegung zur Metaphysik der Sitten, 1785 (Fundamental Principles of the Metaphysic of Morals)
 * Kritik der praktischen Vernunft, 1788 (Critique of Practical Reason )
 * Zum ewigen Frieden, 1795
 * Metaphysik der Sitten, 1797 (Metaphysics of Morals )

 * Anders Chydenius (Finland, 1729-1803)
 * Den Nationnale Winsten, 1765 (The National Gain )

 * Thomas Paine (United Kingdom/United States, 1737-1809)
 * Rights of Man, 1791

 * The Federalists*
 * Federalist Papers / Alexander Hamilton, John Jay & James Madison, 1787

 * Marquis de Condorcet (France, 1743-1794)
 * Esquisse d'un tableau historique des progrés de l'esprit humain, 1795 (Sketch for a Historical Picture of the Progress of the Human Mind)

 * Jeremy Bentham (United Kingdom, 1748-1832)
 * Benjamin Constant (France, 1767-1830)
 * De l'esprit de conquête et l'usurpation (On the spirit of conquest and on usurpation), 1814

 * Wilhelm von Humboldt (Germany, 1767-1835)
 * Ideen zu einem Versuch, die Grenzen der Wirksamkeit des Staats zu bestimmen, 1792 (On the Limits of State Action)

 * James Mill (United Kingdom, 1773-1836)
 * Elements of Political Economy, 1821

 * Alexis de Tocqueville (France, 1805-1859)
 * De La Démocratie en Amérique, 1831-1840 (Democracy in America, )
 * L'Ancien Régime et la Révolution, 1856

 * John Stuart Mill (United Kingdom, 1806-1873)
 * On Representative Government, 1862
 * On Liberty, 1868

 * Jakob Burkhardt (Swiss, 1818-1897) State as derived from cultural and economic life
 * The Civilization of the Renaissance in Italy

 * John Dewey (United States, 1859-1952)
 * Liberalism and Social Action, 1935
 * Democracy and Education

 * Max Weber (Germany, 1864-1920)
 * Die protestantische Ethik und der 'Geist' des Kapitalismus,1904 (The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism )

 * Leonard Trelawny Hobhouse (United Kingdom, 1864-1929)
 * Liberalism, 1911

 * Benedetto Croce (Italy, 1866-1952)
 * Che cos è il liberalismo, 1943

 * William Beveridge (United Kingdom, 1879-1973)
 * Full Employment in a Free Society, 1944
 * Why I am a liberal, 1945

 * Ludwig von Mises (Austria, 1881-1973)

 * John Maynard Keynes (United Kingdom, 1883-1946)
 * The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, 1936
 * The Economic Consequences of the Peace

 * Will Durant 18815-1981 with Ariel Durant 1898-1981
 * The Story of Civiliazation

 * José Ortega y Gasset (Spain, 1883-1955)
 * La rebelión de las masas, 1930 (The Rebellion of the Masses)

 * Friedrich Hayek (Austria, 1899-1992)
 * The Road to Serfdom, 1944
 * The Constitution of Liberty, 1960

 * Karl Raimund Popper (Austria/United Kingdom, 1902-1994)
 * The Open Society and Its Enemies, 1946

 * Alan Paton (South Africa, 1903-1988)
 * Cry, The Beloved Country, 1948

 * Raymond Aron (France, 1905-1983)
 * Essais sur les libertés, 1965
 * Démocratie et totalitarisme, 1965

 * John Kenneth Galbraith (United States, 1908-   )
 * The Affluent Society, 1958
 * The Liberal Hour, 1960

 * Isaiah Berlin (Latvia/United Kingdom, 1909-1997)
 * Two Concepts of Liberty, 1958
 * Four Essays on Liberty, 1966

 * Arthur Schlesinger Jr.
 * The Age of Roosevelt
 * The Cycles in American History

 * Bruce Ackerman
 * We, The People

 * John Rawls (United States, 1921-2002)
 * A Theory of Justice, 1972
 * Political Liberalism, 1996

 * Ralf Dahrendorf (Germany/United Kingdom, 1929-   )
 * Die Chancen der Krise: über die Zukunft des Liberalismus, 1983
 * Fragmente eines neuen Liberalismus, 1987

in English

 * The future of liberal revolution / Bruce Ackerman - New Haven: Yale University Press, 1992
 * Liberalism and Democracy / Norberto Bobbio - London: Verso, 1990 (Liberalismo e democrazia, 1988)
 * Liberalism / John A. Hall - London: Paladin, 1988
 * The Decline of Liberalism as an Ideology / John H. Hallowell - London: Kegan Paul, Trench, Trubner, 1946

in Dutch

 * Beleid voor een vrije samenleving / J.W. de Beus en Percy B. Lehning (red.) - Meppel: Boom, 1990
 * Afscheid van de Verlichting: Liberalen in verwarring over eigen gedachtengoed / Hans Charmant en Percy Lehning - Amsterdam: Donner, 1989
 * Liberalisme, een speurtocht naar de filosofische grondslagen / A.A.M. Kinneging e.a. - Den Haag: Teldersstichting, 1988
 * De liberale speurtocht voortgezet / K. Groenveld, H.J. Lutke Schipholt & J.H.C. van Zanen - Den Haag: Teldersstichting, 1989
 * Het menselijk liberalisme / Dirk Verhofstadt - Antwerpen: Houtekiet, 2002

in French

 * Le libéralisme / Georges Burdeu - Paris: Seuil, 1979

in German

 * Die Freiheit die wir meinen / Werner Becker - München: Piper, 1982
 * Noch eine chance für die Liberalen / Karl-Hermann Flach - Frankfurt: Fischer, 1971
 * Liberalismus / Lothar Gall - Königstein: Athenäum, 1985


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User talk:PaulC

JFW | T@lk  21:07, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:PaulC


text: Category:Calgary

title: Category:Calgary


text:
Jonathan Elmer

Jonathan Elmer (November 29, 1745 – September 3, 1817) was an American politician, of the Pro-Administration (Federalist) Party.

Early life
Jonathan Elmer was born in Cedarville, New Jersey, in 1745. He was the son of Reverend Daniel Elmer and Abigail (Lawrence) Elmer. He was privately tutored until 1765, when he began attendance in the first class of medical students at the University of Pennsylvania. He received the degree of bachelor of medicine in 1768, and 1771 he received his doctor of medicine degree, the first awarded by an American university.

Early career
Elmer practiced medicine in Bridgeton and became active in government and politics. From 1772 to 1775, he served as sheriff of Cumberland County. During the American Revolutionary War he was a militia officer and attained the rank of captain as commander of a company. He was elected to the American Philosophical Society in 1774.

Later career
Elmer was a delegate to the Continental Congress three times: 1777 to 1778, 1781 to 1783, and 1787 to 1788. In 1780 and 1784 he represented Cumberland County in the New Jersey Legislative Council. The College of New Jersey (now known as Princeton University) made Elmer a trustee in 1782. He served in that position until 1795. The New Jersey Legislature appointed Elmer to the United States Senate for the term of March 4, 1789 to March 3, 1791.

His health declined after that, and Elmer died in 1817, and he was interred in Old Broad Street Presbyterian Church Cemetery in Bridgeton.

Family
In 1769, Elmer married Mary Seeley, the daughter of Colonel Ephraim Seeley of Bridgeton. They were the parents of eight children.

Elmer's younger brother, Ebenezer Elmer, and Ebenezer's son Lucius Elmer were members of the United States House of Representatives.

title: Jonathan Elmer


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Talk:Planar (computer graphics)

Images
Perhaps some drawn images would better show how planar graphics are stored in ram 134.173.56.219 (talk) at 17:10, 26 September 2004

Explain better
Can someone explain why planar images are easier to scroll in hardware? It's not obvious to me. Mr2001 12:50, 16 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Agreed, outside of being more space efficient in most cases of the time, therefore requiring less data moving, it doesn't seem to make sense. In fact having eight pixels partially represented in one byte would make horizontal scrolling somewhat nightmarish in software. In hardware the Amiga had support for scrolling, which outside for what I imagine to be a complexity boost in hardware support for that, has no appreciable effect on ease of pointer-adjusting-based scrolling versus chunky representations.

05:26, 24 October 2005 64.81.58.56 (talk)

 * Being a former Amiga programmer myself (although not a very good one), the only reason I can see why planar is better than chunky is that it allows for any number of colours that is a power of 2: 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256, etc., not just 256 or 65536. In the days of the Amiga and the Atari ST this was very important, as the colour of a pixel was usually only an index to a palette which included RGB information, and did not contain the RGB information in itself. Currently the vast amounts of computer memory available seem to have made this concern obsolete. J I P  | Talk 22:15, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

 * I imagine that planar images are easier to scroll because you can simply apply a rotate operation on the screen data, and that will scroll the screen by x pixels horizontally. I believe that this operation is free using the Amiga's clever chipset. The Mekon 03:00, 29 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Um, could not hardware do the same for chunky data? Loris 20:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Disingenious
"This wastes RAM in cases where fewer bits are needed than are provided. If you only need to display 8 colours, you can use 3 bitplanes, and each pixel only has 3 bits assigned to it instead of 8 (reducing memory and bandwidth requirements by 62.5%)."

This seems a bit disingenious, since a chunky format could use a nibble rather than a byte per pixel. Using bitplanes would save 25% against this more likely case. Loris 20:55, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Good questions. Bear in mind that the first bitmapped graphics would have been monochrome, 1 bit/pixel, with graphics memory written directly by applications to a defined memory-mapped address space. Planar graphics would have allowed old software to work unmodified for the same resolution as new bit planes were added in later hardware. This backward compatibility would have been possible with palette-based chunky data only if bits were reserved in each chunk for future expansion, which was wasteful of memory and not done. Even a 25% memory saving was substantial in the 1980's when RAM was expensive and limited. Secondly, as graphics memory requirements increased, the original allocated address space for memory-mapped graphics would have become inadequate. You may recall this happened with MS-DOS. By using bank-switching with planar data, you could access an entire bit plane at once through a limited address space. Although you could use bank-switching to access various portions of a chunky screen too, this could require multiple bank switches when copying data between different parts of the screen. Thirdly, depending on the specific colour change, you may not need access to all bit planes, thus speeding up memory access compared with chunky data. This scenario used to happen more often than now, since with only 4,8 or 16 colours, you are talking business software & primitive games rather than photorealism & texture mapping.

 * To the specific question of why not use sub-byte chunks, remember that standard processor command modes typically support 1-bit, 8-bit, 16-bit, 32-bit and/or 64-bit memory accesses and operations. They are not optimised for sub-byte chunks such as nybbles, which would require additional software overhead. As for scrolling, planar has no advantages for pointer-adjustment scrolling. But this type of scrolling wasn't always available, and when it was, it scrolled the whole screen not just a portion. Planar has advantages for the horizontal component (only) of hardware scrolling because it lets you use the fast shift/rotate standard processor commands to scroll multiple pixels for each read/write access. Yes, you could have hardware scrolling support for chunky data, but it wouldn't reduce the number of memory accesses per scrolled pixel, which is where the bottleneck lies.210.84.60.22 10:37, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
 * What about 8k tv's? --Size vs. Speed. Maybe explain Digital vs Mechanical camera.  Would a TV specialist know? Rico001979 (talk) 19:16, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

Example
I don't understand the current planar data example at all. --Abdull 15:59, 27 October 2007 (UTC)
 * The previous edit did not help at all! I have rewritten and I hope you will find the page clearer now. Cuddlyable3 (talk) 10:17, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

Contrasting definition
The YUV page describes a "planar format" which is quite different from the description here. There is an apparent relationship, in that a single pixel is split across several areas of memory, but it's working in byte-planes and the planes are different sizes, rather than regularly-sized bitplanes. It probably warrants separate discussion. --212.44.20.129 (talk) 14:26, 1 April 2009 (UTC)
 * I too read the YUV planar format, and from I understand represents a single color basis, instead of encoding an entire pixel and all of its channels in consecutive bits. Since that's considered a byteplane, a bit plane would conveniently analogous with equal-sized planes? For example, 4 green/green/blue/red pixels in a 8 bits per channel RGB format stored 32 bits per pixel in this easy-to-read C code:

unsigned int [4] { 0x00FF00, //1st pixel: Red (0), Green (255), Blue (0) 0x00FF00, //2nd pixel: Red (0), Green (255), Blue (0) 0x0000FF, //3rd pixel: Red (0), Green (0), Blue (255) 0xFF0000, //4th pixel: Red (255), Green (0), Blue (0) }

Where as a planar format, representing 8 bits per channel would spread the colors on a 32-bit bitplane instead: unsigned int [3] { 0x000000FF, //Red : 1st pixel (0  ), 2nd pixel (0  ), 3rd pixel (0  ), 4th pixel (255) 0xFFFF0000, //Green: 1st pixel (255), 2nd pixel (255), 3rd pixel (0 ), 4th pixel (0  ) 0x0000FF00, //Blue : 1st pixel (0 ), 2nd pixel (0  ), 3rd pixel (255), 4th pixel (0  ) }

If these examples are even remotely close, please create a better one! ChazZeromus (talk) 19:11, 7 March 2013 (UTC)

Planar mode worse for scrolling/animation?
I have added a "citation needed" at the moment, because maybe I am missing something (not an Amiga/AtariST coder). But I thought Planar can be superior in some aspects for scrolling if not the same, even if doing it without a hardware chip. It has to do with the fact that you have individual bitplanes, so you can select to scroll only few of the bitplanes if your background is not using all available colors. You can even have parallax and transparent layers for free. Say for example that you have 320*200 8bit color. In a chunky display, you would have to move 64k per frame, no matter how many colors you are using. But say you are in a bitplane system and you only use 16 colors (4bits) for the background. Each bitplane is 320*200*1bpp = 8k. You can move 32k with memcopy and have a whole background moving with half the data required to move. You can have 1bit or 2bit or 3bit backgrounds, requiring nbits * 8k data to move and you can even have parallax or translucent layers by defining the palette in specific ways. Planar is powerful for that stuff. Even for simple animation with few colors (cartoonish stuff or flat polygons) planar can be much faster because you can write a single byte in one bitplane and have filled 8 single color pixels at once. That's why a lot of the Amiga demos where flat polygons, flat dancing figures animation and many scroll layers. Now, if you had to do individual pixel manipulation like texture mapping reading from a full 8bit texture bitmap, then on chunky surface you would require to read a byte from the bitmap and then write a byte to the vram, but in planar you'd have to either read 1 chunky byte from texture or 8 bits from texture stored in bitplane format, break it in individual bits and write each of the bits in it's corresponding bitplane, which is 1 read, lot's of work to break bits or 8 reads alternatively and eight individual writes, also you have to OR it with the already existing bits of the other pixels in the bitplane, a lot of work.

So, I think that statement should be exactly the opposite. And also add some information about disadvantages on individual pixel manipulation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Optimus6128 (talk • contribs) 13:44, 24 June 2014 (UTC)

 * I've removed the cite needed. The claim doesn't say if it's "superior" or not. The claim is that it takes more memory address cycles. You can't equate superior or inferior to that. Like many thing I suspect it's a trade off, simpler X at the cost of Y. 81.108.53.238 (talk) 21:24, 30 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Related question: How can a picture element (pixel) store (1 of many colors) and quickly display onscreen? (maybe offtopic) Rico001979 (talk) 19:20, 25 May 2024 (UTC)

BBC Micro needs further reference
It's not obvious to me how the BBC Micro had a planar arrangement when using its RAM for pixels. A reference should be given to back up the statement. Ralph Corderoy (talk) 11:08, 21 June 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Planar (computer graphics)


text: Category:Carthage

title: Category:Carthage


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Talk:Foot (unit)

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The value of the United Kingdom primary standard of the yard was determined in terms of the meter by the National Physical Laboratory in 1964 as 0.9143969 m,[19] implying a pre-1959 foot in the UK of approximately 0.304798966667 m.

The cited figure from the NPL is to seven decimal places, someone has presumably divided it by three to get the length of a foot, which is fine, but that is listed to 11 decimal places, which might give the impression the test was a thousand times more accurate than it would seem looking at the figure for the yard. (obviously ideally some indication of the measurement accuracy other than by assumption based on the decimal places shown would be ideal, although that could start to get into the intended audience expectations of an encyclopedia vs the norms of scientific papers where more precision is expected but also more background knowledge is needed to make them understandable due to the extra complexity of how results are presented) --87.242.189.106 (talk) 17:15, 2 March 2018 (UTC)

Opening sentence
, the opening sentence reads "The foot ( pl. feet); abbreviation: ft; symbol: ′ (the prime symbol), is a unit of length in the imperial and US customary systems of measurement."

but in the body (under §International foot) we have "The international standard symbol for a foot is "ft" (see ISO 31-1, Annex A). In some cases, the foot is denoted by a prime,"

Per WP:LEAD the lead should summarise the body and the present lead is a bit off target. Of course, "ft" is an abbreviation of "foot" (even though ISO calls it a symbol) and prime [or, more honestly, typewriter apostrophe] is widely used as a symbol for foot. So we need to come up with a better form of words. Can anyone suggest an improvement on this: "The foot ( pl. feet), abbreviation and ISO standard symbol: ft, is a unit of length in the imperial and US customary systems of measurement. The prime symbol, ′, is a customarily used alternative symbol."

Comments? We could just look the other way, of course, but the infobox says "symbol ft" because that is the ISO standard (see Template talk:Infobox unit, so we aren't being consistent. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 21:32, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
 * The sorts of people and organizations that control formal use of units of measure, such as scientists, the US National Institute of Standards and Technology, and many of the factions responsible for science and math requirements in US public schools, are trying to phase out customary units. So I would expect scant attention to fine distinctions between abbreviations for the foot versus symbols for the foot. If you ask any of the sort of people or organizations I just mentioned about this, they'll ignore you unless you rephrase your question in terms of meters.
 * Since the foot is essentially a colloquial unit, instead of looking to organizations like ISO that despise customary units, it's better to look at dictionaries, which attempt to capture popular usage, for example, https://www.lexico.com/ (I set the variety setting to US English, but it probably doesn't matter much.
 * In Lexico, an abbreviation is "A shortened form of a word or phrase." That does not rule out the prime mark.
 * A symbol is "A mark or character used as a conventional representation of an object, function, or process, e.g. the letter or letters standing for a chemical element or a character in musical notation." That could apply either to the prime mark or ft, although you could argue that it says a character while ft is two characters. Jc3s5h (talk) 22:05, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
 * You raise a different philosophical question. The function of a dictionary is to document what is, not what should be. An encyclopedia has more of a problem because it has to elaborate: it needs also to document what is but cannot do so without comment like a dictionary can. So we must record all documented styles: the only question really is how best to do so. The issue I'm raising here whether we can sensibly have an infobox saying that the symbol is 'this', an opening sentence that says the symbol is 'that' and some body text that says it is this again but that 'that' is also used. I know about the culture war, I'm trying to find a way to sidestep that issue. (By the way, your comment applies equally to kg: it is an abbreviation of kilogram and a two-letter symbol for that standard mass. The real world is messy sometimes). --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 22:53, 27 July 2020 (UTC)
 * A technical point: the way the folks who advocate SI use the word "symbol", it's something that can be used in dimensional analysis. So it's not unusual to see expressions like m2. You also see expressions like ft3. But you would never see ′−1.
 * About sources: ISO 30-1 is obsolete and has been replaced by ISO ISO 80000-3:2019. I don't have that standard, and I would be opposed to anyone adding information to the article unless the editor actually has access to, and has read, ISO 80000-3:2019. Jc3s5h (talk) 00:07, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Who do you think I am? Elon Musk? :-)
 * But I'm not proposing to add anything to the article, just to reorganise what is already in it, to make its internal contradictions less blatant. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 09:12, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Without being in possession of the ISO standard(s), it's hard to be sure which changes would be significant. For example, by changing from a claim that it's mentioned in ISO 31-1 Annex A (whatever that is) to saying "ISO standard symbol: ft we make a claim that none of the ISO standards set forth any other symbol for the foot. There's so many ISO standards that I wouldn't feel safe making such a claim. Jc3s5h (talk) 09:51, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * ISO 80000-3:2019 does not mention the foot. However, there is an IEEE standard that defines non-SI units and their symbols. The IEEE standard symbol for the foot is ft. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 11:34, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * "there is an IEEE standard that defines non-SI units and their symbols" - which one? is it freely accessible? --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 12:06, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * IEEE 260.1-2004. You might find the talk page a useful resource. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 13:14, 28 July 2020 (UTC)

"Metre" or "meter"?
This article contains an unsightly mix of US and UK English. I don't mind which is chosen but please let's pick one and apply that choice consistently. Do others have a preference? Dondervogel 2 (talk) 11:37, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * Look near the top of this talk page; you will see an American English template. Jc3s5h (talk) 12:04, 28 July 2020 (UTC)
 * How come US English was chosen?Halbared (talk) 10:23, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Talk:Foot (unit)/Archive 1 Jc3s5h (talk) 10:30, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Not much of a debate! Dondervogel 2 (talk) 11:05, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Haha, quite! Is there enough interest to reopen the 'debate'?Halbared (talk) 14:25, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * Seriously? Life is too short! Why fight a battle that you know you will lose? There are a lot more of them and they still use these measures. By the way, I've just done a search and the only use of "metre" is a citation. --John Maynard Friedman (talk) 16:07, 19 August 2020 (UTC)
 * That's because all occurrences of "metre" were removed on 28 July. I found the inconsistency abhorrent, but the article seems fine (to me) after those edits. Perhaps someone should look at the convert template though. I had to replace it with manual unit conversions to achieve consistent spelling. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 20:38, 19 August 2020 (UTC)

More appropriate to include lengths in inches
This article isn't very accessible, since most of the measurements are cited in mm. I would edit to include inch measurements as well as metric myself, but all edits to wikipedia are reverted. This is an article about a standard unit in the imperial system. If anything should refer to imperial units, an article about imperial units should refer to imperial units. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C4E:1200:BD:2D4E:4551:5399:8014 (talk) 22:24, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

 * The purpose of converting to millimetres is to distinguish between multiple different definitions of "foot". Converting to inches would not achieve that because the inch is at least as ambiguous as the foot, so the reader would learn nothing useful. It probably is worth mentioning (if not done already) that some "feet" were divided into 10 inches and some into 12. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 07:01, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

"Foot length" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Foot length and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 April 5 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 06:21, 5 April 2022 (UTC)

"Foot(unit of length)" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Foot(unit of length) and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 April 6 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Steel1943 (talk) 19:05, 6 April 2022 (UTC)

"Evaluation of additional 19th C. Italian sources on the foot as used in Italy" listed at Redirects for discussion
dear all,

the Wiki page for the old measure of the 'palm' [see Palmo (unità di misura) - Wikipedia] offers a link to a pdf-source named "Antiche pesi e mesure" [i.e. Ancient weights and measures] (retrieved via Wayback Machine (archive.org)) which, translated from Italian, says the following on the unit 'foot' (piede):

"A linear unit of measurement that differs from place to place.

The Neapolitan 'foot' (piede napolitano), used since the 11th century, was equivalent to 0.3349 metres.

In the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies, the French foot (piede francese) or royal foot of Paris (piede regio di Parigi) was also used, which was equivalent to 0.324839 metres (today estimated to be 0.324864 metres)."

Interesting is that the article cites the following old 19th C. sources, all in Italian:

1° : Antonio Pasquale Favaro: "Metrologia o sia Trattato Generale delle Misure, de' Pesi e delle Monete." [Metrology or General Treatise on Measures, Weights and Coins]. Napoli: Gabinetto Bibliografico e Tipografico, 1826;

> Tavole delle Mesure Antiche [Tables of Ancient Measurements], p. 88 :

piede di Parigi = 0,3248 m

2° : Carlo Afan de Rivera: "Tavole di riduzione de' Pesi e delle misure della Sicilia Citeriore in quelli statuiti dalla legge de' 6 aprile del 1840". [Tables of Reductions of Weights and Measures of Sicilia Citeriore in those established by the Law of 6 April 1840]. Napoli: Stamperia e Cartiere del Fibreno, 1840;

3° : Angelo Martini: "Manuale di metrologia ossia Misure, Pesi e Monete in uso attualmente e anticamente presso tutti i popoli antichi". [Handbook of Metrology i.e. Measures, Weights and Coins in Current and Ancient Use by All Ancient Peoples]. Roma: Editrice E.C.A., 1976, a facsimile reprint of the original Turin edition of 1883.

(> It is clear that there's a 'before' and 'after' 1840 situation regarding these old units of measurements, due to a Law dating from April 6, 1840)

Maybe, this pdf-source can be checked by an editor fluent in Italian to ascertain if the measurement equivalents in metres are correctly cited from one of the 3 old bibliographical sources above.

If yes, then this info can be added to the article in some way...

PS : regarding the denomination "Sicilia Citeriore"

citerióre adj. [from Latin citerior -oris, compar. of prep. Citra "on this side"]. - Which is located on this side, towards us (with respect to another part of the region, which is said to be 'ulteriore '); it is usually used in geographical determinations of the ancient world (Spagna c., Gallia c.), and in administrative designations now disused, such as Calabria c., Abruzzo citeriore. (translated from citerióre in Vocabolario - Treccani).

It therefore must be making reference to the Kingdom of the Two Sicilies (1816-1860), of which Naples was the capital.

Sicilia citeriore must then refer to all of the Italian Peninsula south of the Papal States, which covered most of the area of today's Mezzogiorno, as compared to the island of Sicily itself which would then be considered Sicilia ulteriore.

Shooting4truth (talk) 21:29, 5 April 2023 (UTC)

Plural : feet
Shouldn't a usage note be added regarding the use of foot? For example,

Foot can also be used instead of feet when mentioning a quantity and in front of words like tall: four foot of snow; he is at least six foot tall JMGN (talk) 16:46, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

 * The proposed usage note is incorrect. Jc3s5h (talk) 19:47, 26 August 2023 (UTC)

 * The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language, page 1588, reads
 * >Examples like She’s six foot tall  involve a special use of the singular form rather than a base plural: the difference between this and How many feet are there in a mile? is a matter of syntax.
 * >In a herd of elephant the construction involves a special use of the singular in certain syntactic contexts (comparable to the six foot tall construction). JMGN (talk) 09:10, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * See https://learningenglish.voanews.com/a/ask-a-teacher-foot-or-feet-/4628864.html
 * The singular is used when the quantity and unit are used as a phrase to describe a noun. A six-foot man, where man is a noun. When the quantity-unit phrase applies to a word or phrase that is not a noun, the plural is used. In four feet of snow, "of snow" is a prepositional phrase, not a noun. In he is at least six feet tall "six feet" applies to the adjective "tall". Jc3s5h (talk) 14:54, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Fowler (4th edn) is more descriptive and indicates a wider use of "foot": "The normal plural feet alternates with foot when used as a unit of length or height: She is six feet/foot tall; a plank ten feet/foot long. When such a phrase is used attributively a hyphen is normally placed ... In contexts in which the number of inches is also given, foot is more common than feet: ... C.A. [a West Indian fast bowler] is six foot eight." (italics per Fowler) NebY (talk) 15:19, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Surely to get into this level of detail on particular usages is (a) colloquial/regional BrE [see for ex. "a ten pound bet"] and is uncommon elsewhere; (b) out of scope for Wikipedia – leave it to Wiktionary (see https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/foot#Usage_notes ). --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:07, 27 August 2023 (UTC) (PS: I agree with Jc3s5h, because "a ten pound bet" should be written as "a ten-pound bet". Either way, I wouldn't touch this one with a forty-foot pole. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 17:09, 27 August 2023 (UTC))
 * Fair. We're not saying anything about English usage that needs correcting. NebY (talk) 20:41, 27 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Other wikipedia articles include similar information tho https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle#Singular_terminology_issue JMGN (talk) 14:25, 17 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Other wikipedia articles include similar information tho https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle#Singular_terminology_issue JMGN (talk) 14:25, 17 September 2023 (UTC)

Reopening this discussion: "foot" is commonly used as its own plural: eg "how tall are you? Six foot." is common usage. No one would say "six yard" or "six metre". Foot is unique in that way. I made an edit, but it was reverted, incorrectly in my opinion. 2.222.13.214 (talk) 14:00, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

 * Sorry but the correct answer to the how tall question is "six feet". But expressions like "she is five foot nothing" or "she is six foot two" are common usage.
 * The better answer to your question is "find a reliable source that says so and we can use it". Nb examples of use are not good enough, it has to be something that describes the usage. 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 14:11, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
 * An additional example, involving a different unit, is a hundred-meter race [italics removed because they were present for discussion purposes and not a normal part of the phrase]. Notice it doesn't say "a hundred-meters race". Jc3s5h (talk) 20:06, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Four-man bobsleigh, two-state solution, three-way .... NebY (talk) 20:39, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
 * how long is a hundred metre race? 2A02:C7C:7483:CE00:E0AC:F79D:1C:F7BD (talk) 21:09, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
 * And is it the same a a hundred meter race? HiLo48 (talk) 21:44, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I don't get it. Surely you mean a 328.0839895 foot race? Dondervogel 2 (talk) 09:09, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
 * I think the point is: the answer to the question "how long is a 100 metre/meter race" would be "100 metres/meters". But the answer to the question "how long is a 100 foot race" would typically be "100 foot". Because foot is an extremely widely used alternative plural to feet. Those who say "oh yes its just the same as metres etc when used in adjectival form" are missing the point here.
 * "Examples of use are not good enough" is a ridiculous claim- reflecting of personal prejudice and far beyond protocol. Most plurals on wikipedia aren't referenced by citations, only by usage 78.25.215.6 (talk) 13:08, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
 * There's just one small problem with your argument: The correct answer to the question "How long is a 100 foot race?" is 100 feet, not 100 foot. Dondervogel 2 (talk) 13:36, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
 * In your opinion perhaps - but we're not really interested in what is "correct" in the opinion of an anonymous wikipedia editor, only what is common usage. 78.25.215.6 (talk) 14:37, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia editors, as such, are not allowed to gauge common usage. Gathering examples of usages from sources that are not specifically about words and their use, such as dictionaries and style guides, or scholarly publications on such subjects like the ''International Journal of Lexicography, is a method of gauging common use and, when done by Wikipedia editors, runs afoul of the No original research policy. Jc3s5h (talk) 21:26, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
 * You just completely made that up, didn't you. You must think we're stupid. Finding examples of usage are by far the most common means of justifying mentioning alternatives spellings/usages on Wikipedia. 2A02:C7C:7483:CE00:ED55:A559:F64B:B65F (talk) 22:49, 14 February 2024 (UTC)
 * No, an example of usage is not a valid citation for usage in general; it is wp:cherry-picking. Unless you do a large survey and evaluate it, whereupon it is a WP:no original research violation. That is why we need a WP:reliable source to make the judgement call. --𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 15:59, 15 February 2024 (UTC)
 * If that was true, then all, or at least the majority of plural annotations on wikipedia would be backed up with a metasource. But they're not - in fact I can't find a single example. Which rather suggests that far from common guidance this is simply a "rule" you have invented. I suggest you stand down. 2.222.13.214 (talk) 10:02, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Is the US survey foot still used?
A us. survey foot is expressed as a fraction — 1200/3937 meters — while an international foot is expressed as a decimal, exactly 0.3048 meters. That's a difference of only one one-hundredth of a foot per mile. RicHard-59 (talk) 07:12, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

 * In a word, yes. see the National Geodetic Survey webpage about this. The main use of survey feet is in state plane coordinate systems. A land surveyor may be looking for something as small as a 3/8 inch diameter rebar (used to mark a property corner) a distance of 100 miles from the origin of the x, y coordinates. Haphazardly switching between survey feet and international feet will make a big mess.
 * When the deprecation date for survey feet was chosen (January 1, 2023) it was thought the new state plane coordinate systems of 2022 would be released. But Covid delayed this (as well as the tendency for the US federal government to never get anything done on time). The plan was (and is) to start using international feet on new projects that otherwise would have used survey feet when the new state plane coordinate systems are released. This is now expected to be in 2025.
 * The survey foot will still be used for old projects until those projects are resurveyed or go through some other big conversion process. How long will that take? The last time the government did a survey of the road I live on was in 1811. Jc3s5h (talk) 13:43, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

Harappan foot measure error in source
The Harappan equivalent is stated in the article as "[...] a foot of 333.5 mm (13.2 in) [...]". In the cited source, on page 117, it is stated as "[...] the foot (13.2 inches or 33.35 cm) [...]" with the metric in centimeters instead of millimeters. However, if you convert either metric value into inches, you get 13.129921 inches which does not round to 13.2in. What appears to have happened is a typo in the cited source where the author transposed the two decimal digits of the metric value (from 33.53 to 33.35) since 33.53cm does convert to 13.2in. If so, then the value listed here should be 335.3mm (if we stick with millimeters instead of the centimeters of the source). However, I am not sure what to actually do for this article since, on one hand, there is an obvious typo in the cited source which creates an easy to see mathematical error in this article but, on the other hand, we are also supposed to stick with what is stated in the source. — al-Shimoni  (talk) 12:34, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

 * IMO, you should take the 13.2 inches as the original data and correct the author's math error. That is a sensible and reasonable thing to do. But beware of excess precision in your conversion. So just use 13.2 in, which returns "13.2 in" (so correct to nearest 1 mm, which is appropriate given that the original measurement was (presumably!) correct to nearest $1/undefined$ of an inch). 𝕁𝕄𝔽 (talk) 13:23, 10 November 2023 (UTC)

New Year’s Eve 2023 Marked the Retirement of the U.S. Survey Foot
https://www.nist.gov/news-events/news/2023/01/new-years-eve-2023-marked-retirement-us-survey-foot Dondervogel 2 (talk) 17:06, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

 * It's only retired for new work. Projects that were/will be done with the U.S. survey foot will continue to use it unless and until the project is converted to a more up-to-date unit of measure.
 * In many states the survey foot will continue to be used with projects in the State Plane Coordinate System of 1983 until the National Geodetic Survey releases the State Plane Coordinate System of 2022; this is expected to be in 2025. Jc3s5h (talk) 18:11, 4 April 2024 (UTC)

United States defines the meter??
A recent series of edits by made the first paragraph of the US survey foot section read
 * In the United States, the meter was defined by the Metric Act of 1866, and ratified by the Mendenhall Order of 1893, as exactly 39.37 inches, making the US survey foot $1200⁄3937$ meter or approximately 0.304 800 609 601 219 m.

I reverted this portion of the edit. For one thing, the Metric Act of 1866 does not say it is defining the unit (or any other metric measure) it says it is listing equivalent values. It does not say which is a mathematical conversion of the other. Also, the approximate length of the foot given in meters is given to an extraordinary precision. I suspect this much precision is not justified, and would want to see a reliable source that explains how this is justified.

In addition, the Metric Act of 1866 did not make the US survey foot equivalent to a particular fraction of the meter, it made the foot, as enforced in the United States, equivalent to a particular fraction of the meter. The US didn't have two different feet until the invention of gauge blocks (in practice) or until 1960 in terms of the government's position.

Finally, the passage makes it seem as if the 1893 Mendenhall Order ratified the idea of defining the meter in terms of the foot. The reverse is true. The Office of Standards of the Coast and Geodetic Survey found the standard yard and standard pound unstable, and increasingly favored the standard meter and kilogram which they possessed. Mendenhall finally made it official with his order: US customary units were actually based on metric standards. Jc3s5h (talk) 02:01, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Foot (unit)


text:
Namanga

Namanga is a town divided by the Tanzania-Kenya border. It is in Longido District, Tanzania and Kajiado County, Kenya. It is around 110 kilometers from Arusha, Tanzania. Namanga's economy has been heavily dependent on tourism since 2004 as tourists visiting the nearby Amboseli National Park passed through the town from Nairobi (183 kilometers to the north). The town is surrounded by hills on both sides. Mount Kilimanjaro can be viewed from Namanga town which makes it a scenic place by tourists who lodge in Namanga on their way to either Tanzania or Amboseli. The nearby Ol Doinyo Orok mountain, also known as Namanga Hills is located northwest of Namanga town. Namanga's latitude is S 2°32'39.8" and longitude E 36°47'20.2". The town has an urban population of approximately 10,000 while the rural population is approximately 5,500.

Economic development
The economy of Namanga has been on the rise as it ceased to depend only on tourism. The town is currently dependent both on tourism and on import and export from both Kenya and Tanzania. With the opening of the East African Community borders, the town will benefit from market of both countries which according to the statistical bureau of Kenya will trigger a population growth of the town to an approximate of 30,000. With the recent investment by the financial institutions and the completion of the great north road, the town has grown economical especially in its infrastructure. This development has increased transport activities from the area as it triggered more importation of commodities from Tanzania to Kenya as it is assumed to be cheaper.

Population diversity
Namanga is a cosmopolitan town. Its population includes several tribes from all part of the country. Its main population is from the Maasai community who occupy most of the parts in Namanga. The Kikuyu communities are second in majority. This was catalyzed by the intermarriage between the Maasai and the Kikuyu. The rest of the population is occupied by other ethnicity groups which include the Kamba, the Cushites who are Somalis, Borana and many other more communities.

title: Namanga


text:
Coldheart Canyon

Coldheart Canyon is a novel by Clive Barker, published in 2001 by HarperCollins. The paperback edition was published by HarperTorch on November 5, 2002 (ISBN 006103018X). The story centers on Todd Pickett, a failing movie star, and Tammy Lauper, Todd's obsessive fan.

Synopsis
The story begins in Romania during the 1920s, where poverty and disease run rampant. American talent agent Willem Zeffer and the Romanian-born actress he represents, Katya Lupi, have travelled there in order to visit Katya's relatives. Zeffer visits an old medieval castle which has been turned into a monastery and decides to buy a unique work of art, a series of sculpted and painted tiles depicting, in a grotesque and obscene manner, the local legend of a Count who was cursed to haunt the nearby wilderness for all eternity.

The second part of the story begins in the year 2000, when failing movie star Todd Pickett decides to undergo plastic surgery to make himself look younger as prelude to his professional comeback. Something goes wrong during the surgery, and Todd, now disfigured, is forced to go into hiding during his recovery. His agent selects Katya Lupi's former home, an abandoned house in Coldheart Canyon, a secluded area outside Hollywood, where Todd soon discovers that Katya and her "subjects" still hold court.

Reception
Coldheart Canyon received favorable reviews. Publishers Weekly called it "one of the most accomplished, and most notable, novels of the year". Kirkus Reviews said, "If you can tolerate Barker at his most fantastical and effusive, you won’t want to miss Coldheart Canyon."

title: Coldheart Canyon


text:
Evan Dando

Evan Griffith Dando (born March 4, 1967) is an American musician and the frontman of the rock band the Lemonheads. He has also embarked on a solo career and collaborated on songs with various artists. In December 2015, Dando was inducted into the Boston Music Awards Hall of Fame.

Early life and education
Dando was born in Essex, Massachusetts, on Boston's North Shore, to Susan, a former fashion model, and Jeffrey, who worked as a real estate attorney. At the age of nine, his family moved from Essex to Boston; his parents divorced two years later. In his teens Dando attended Commonwealth School in Boston. In the fall of 1986 he enrolled at Skidmore College but dropped out after getting "four Fs and a D."

The Lemonheads
While at Commonwealth, Dando met Ben Deily and Jesse Peretz, and in 1986 they formed the Whelps before changing their name to Lemonheads, like that of the candy manufactured by Ferrara Pan. The Lemonheads debuted at the Meltdown House in Cambridge on July 18, 1986, followed by a show at The Rat on August 19. The band recorded an EP, Laughing All the Way to the Cleaners, which got the attention of Taang! Records, a local label. The Lemonheads' first three albums, Hate Your Friends, Creator, and Lick, were all released on Taang!

Following the third album, Dando left the group briefly after some tension with Deily, and joined Juliana Hatfield's band Blake Babies. However, he returned as a drummer when The Lemonheads' cover of Suzanne Vega's song "Luka" became successful, and the group had an opportunity to tour Europe. Deily, however, quit the band shortly before the tour, and Dando replaced him as the guitarist and lead vocalist. Dando brought in David Ryan on drums, and the group signed with Atlantic Records, releasing the album Lovey in 1990.

Dando spent some time in Australia to write songs with friends Nic Dalton and Tom Morgan, who later started the band Sneeze. Some of his songs formed the basis for The Lemonheads' fifth album, It's a Shame About Ray. In 1992, The Lemonheads recorded a punk-inflected cover of Simon and Garfunkel's hit "Mrs. Robinson" to help promote the VHS release of The Graduate for the film's 25th anniversary. The song reached number 19 on the UK Singles Chart in December 1992, and was included in the album's re-release as a bonus track. Dando initially disliked the song's inclusion on the album, feeling like he was tricked by his label, who asked him to record it. After seeing the track being played in Martin Scorsese's The Wolf of Wall Street, however, his opinions towards the track changed. Dando's face appeared on several magazine covers, and People listed him among the "50 Most Beautiful People". In an interview with Q magazine, he admitted he smoked crack cocaine and regretted it. In late 1993, the group released the album Come on Feel the Lemonheads, which featured singles "It's About Time", "Big Gay Heart", and "Into Your Arms". During the group's touring in 1994, Dando befriended Oasis and appeared at some of their live shows. He also made a cameo appearance at the end of the 1994 film Reality Bites.

Dando re-formed The Lemonheads with former member John Strohm on guitar, Bill Gibson, former bassist of Australian band The Eastern Dark, and Patrick Murphy, a former member of Dinosaur Jr., on drums. The group released the album Car Button Cloth in 1996. In 1997 the band went on tour and played its final gig at the Reading Festival, after which the band went on hiatus.

In 2005, Dando put together a new lineup for The Lemonheads which included Karl Alvarez and Bill Stevenson, formerly of the Descendents. In April 2006, they signed with Vagrant Records, and released a self-titled album in September. Dando also had a lineup which included bassist Vess Ruhtenberg and drummer Devon Ashley of the Pieces where they toured the UK, Europe and the United States. In late 2007, Alvarez and Stevenson toured with Dando for the first time live on the US tour. In 2008, he toured with Ruhtenberg and Ashley to promote the re-release of a deluxe version of It's a Shame About Ray, and then toured with Ruhtenberg and drummer P. David Hazel of Beta Male for a European Tour. On April 23, 2008, at the inaugural NME US Awards ceremony held at the El Rey in Los Angeles, Dando received a Classic Album award for It's A Shame About Ray, although Entertainment Weekly reported that he threw the award in the garbage offstage, and then returned to perform "Ray" and "My Drug Buddy".

In 2009 the Lemonheads released Varshons, a collection of 11 covers, including tracks originally recorded by Gram Parsons, Wire, GG Allin, Christina Aguilera; the album featured vocal performances by actress Liv Tyler and model Kate Moss. For many of the tours since 2010, The Lemonheads have included the entire It's a Shame About Ray album on the setlist.

Solo career and collaborations
Dando worked with Australian musicians Nic Dalton and Tom Morgan, both of whom have been involved with The Lemonheads. In Sydney, he joined Dalton, Morgan, and a number of Half A Cow artists on a self-titled album by the band Sneeze and the album Coastal by Godstar. Dando participated in the Australian band the Givegoods, which featured Paul Dempsey of Something for Kate.

Dando has worked regularly with Juliana Hatfield where he appeared on several Blake Babies songs and she in turn played with The Lemonheads. In Blake Babies, Dando wrote on tracks and provided supporting music and vocals on the Slow Learner album, released in 1989. He also collaborated on Hatfield's album Hey Babe, released in 1994. In 1999, he recorded a duet with Hatfield for the 1999 album, Return of the Grievous Angel: A Tribute to Gram Parsons. The two sang Gram Parsons' "$1000 Wedding". Their long-time relationship inspired a line in the Barenaked Ladies' song "Jane": "No promises as vague as heaven. No Juliana next to my Evan". In late 2000, Dando sang with the Blake Babies and played some acoustic shows with them. In 2011, Dando and Hatfield paired up again for a series of live performances.

In 1995, he had a small role in James Mangold's indie film Heavy, and contributed two cover songs to the soundtrack.

During an acoustic world tour in early 2001, Dando garnered renewed interest in his back catalog. With touring musicians Ben Lee and Ben Kweller, he performed a mix of Lemonheads songs and solo songs. His performance at the Brattle Theatre in Cambridge on October 18, 2000, was recorded and officially released in the fall of 2001 as Live at the Brattle Theatre; the album was packaged with an additional disc, an EP titled Griffith Sunset that featured covers of country songs.

In February 2003 Dando released his first solo album, Baby I'm Bored, which reached the top 40 of the UK Albums chart.

In 2004, Dando performed as the lead vocalist for the band MC5 on a 41-show tour. He has collaborated with The Dandy Warhols and soundtrack composer Craig Armstrong. At the All Tomorrow's Parties' Don't Look Back festival, Dando played several live dates, including a full performance of the It's A Shame About Ray album.

In 2015, Dando played solo shows in the United States and Europe.

Personal life
While taking a break from making music with/as the Lemonheads, Dando met English model and musician Elizabeth Moses in 1998; they married two years later. Moses contributed photography to Dando's albums Live at the Brattle Theatre and Baby I'm Bored as well as the Lemonheads' 2006 eponymous album and its 2009 follow-up, Varshons, on which her backing vocals can be heard on the song "Fragile." Moses and Dando separated in 2010. On February 13, 2019, Dando appeared on an episode of The Goldbergs called "My Valentine Boy". In the episode he played guitar with The Dropouts, a band starring Adam Goldberg's fictional older sister.

Dando moved to Brazil in 2023 with his girlfriend, Brazilian videomaker Antonia Teixeira, daughter of the Brazilian folk legend Renato Teixeira.

Legacy
Dando has been referenced in song by several musicians.
 * Ben Lee wrote a tribute song called "I Wish I Was Him"
 * Dntel's "This is the Dream of Evan and Chan" is about a dream Ben Gibbard had about Dando and Cat Power's Chan Marshall
 * Frequent Dando collaborator Tom Morgan mentions "[his] Rock 'n Roll Friend Evan" in Smudge's 1991 single "Don't Want to Be Grant McLennan"
 * Kimya Dawson mentions Dando in her song "The Beer"
 * The 1994 song "Jane" by Barenaked Ladies contains a lyric that refers to Dando and Juliana Hatfield
 * Dando's name appears in Bret Easton Ellis's novel Glamorama (1998).
 * The Television Personalities have a song called "Evan Doesn't Ring Me Anymore".
 * In the "My Valentine Episode" of The Goldbergs, Luke Eisner played a young Evan Dando that joined Erica Goldberg's band the Dropouts before leaving to join the Lemonheads. Evan Dando himself cameoed in the episode as a townie that bought beer for underage kids

Albums

 * Live at the Brattle Theatre/Griffin Sunset EP (2001)
 * Baby I'm Bored (2003) ( UK #30)

Singles

 * "Perfect Day" (1995, with Kirsty MacColl) ( UK #75)
 * "Stop My Head" (2003) ( UK #38)
 * "It Looks Like You" (2003) ( UK #68)

title: Evan Dando


text: User talk:65.9.218.149

title: User talk:65.9.218.149


text:
User talk:Peter9

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions.

You might find these pages useful:

 * How to edit a page

 * How to write a great article

 * Article naming conventions

 * Wikipedia's Manual of Style

You can always experiment in the sandbox.

If you like, you can introduce yourself at the new user log, or write something about yourself on your user page.

One more thing: if you leave a note on any kind of discussion page it's always helpful to sign your post with four tildes ( ~ ), which is automatically converted to your username and the date and time. Don't do this in articles themselves though as they are not 'owned' by any particular contributor.

If you have any questions, see help, leave a question at the help desk, or feel free to drop me a line on my talk page.

Thanks again and happy editing!

— Trilobite (Talk) 21:16, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Peter9


text:
Talk:Daffodil

Help Needed
I added a taxobox, but unfortunately I know nothing about daffodils. Can anyone fill in the "species" part? --zenohockey 21:16, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Merger into "Narcissus (genus)" article
I am seriously proposing that the article Daffodil should be merged into Narcissus (genus). The name "daffodil" is the English word of the Latin "narcissus". Other plant articles in Wikipedia are under their Latin names, with the English version being redirected to it. Dieter Simon 23:16, 19 March 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Daffodil


text:
Talk:La Paz Department (El Salvador)

What does "SV" mean? RickK 21:18, Sep 26, 2004 (UTC)

 * I presume Salvador, to differentiate it from La Paz Department in Bolivia and La Paz department in Honduras. All three could use some name juggling, I just don't know to what.

This one should probably be La Paz Department, El Salvador, then. RickK 19:27, Sep 27, 2004 (UTC) hi —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.93.195.139 (talk) 01:40, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

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title: Talk:La Paz Department (El Salvador)


text:
Talk:Hulusi Behçet

CeeGee, this artice is a verbatim copy of this text: http://www.hulusibehcet.net/behlife.htm Do you have permission to publish this text under the GNU FDL? If you don't, you should remove this article ASAP. regards, Walden 21:21, 2004 Sep 26 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:HulusiBehcet.gif
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Pronunciation
Please, somebody insert a file with the right pronunciation of his complete name. Retornaire (talk) 05:24, 12 December 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hulusi Behçet


text:
Hallsberg

Hallsberg is a bimunicipal locality and the seat of Hallsberg Municipality, Örebro County, Sweden with 7,122 inhabitants in 2010. It is also partly located in Kumla Municipality.

Overview
This settlement grew up around a railway junction, and is these days primarily known as a place where you have to change trains. The railway station is oversized for the town's own needs. Hallsberg was declared a municipalsamhälle (a type of borough within its municipality) in 1883 and got the title of a market town (köping) in 1908. Since 1971 it is instead the seat of the enlarged Hallsberg Municipality.

Hallsberg is famous for its huge classification yard and for the large train station. The reason for this is that railways (from practically all cardinal directions) to and from Stockholm, Gothenburg, Mjölby, Örebro and Karlstad join here. Among the more important is the Västra stambanan ("western main line"). As the railways were built, Hallsberg grew up around it.

A sight in the Hallsberg is the Bergööska House, built in the 1880s. It was drawn by the architect Ferdinand Boberg, and contains wall-paintings by Carl Larsson, depicting the Bergöö family and other well-known people of Hallsberg.

The main industries are Volvo, Ahlsell, and enterprises related to the railway industry, like the freight operator Hector Rail. Sports equipment manufacturer Kosa is also situated here.

Hallsberg has three twin towns.

Sven Wingquist, co-founder of SKF in 1907, was born in Hallsberg on December 10, 1876.

title: Hallsberg