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Thomas Innes (historian)

Thomas Innes (1662 – 28 January 1744) was a Scottish Roman Catholic priest and historian. He studied at the Scots College, (Paris), of which he became vice-principal. He was the author of two learned works, Critical Essay on the Ancient Inhabitants of the Northern Parts of Britain (1729), and Civil and Ecclesiastical History of Scotland, 80 to 818 (published 1853).

Life
The second son of James Innes, and younger brother of Lewis Innes, he was born at Drumgask in the parish of Aboyne, Aberdeenshire. In 1677 he was sent to Paris, and studied at the College of Navarre. He entered the Scots College on 12 January 1681, but still attended the College of Navarre.

On 26 May 1684 he received the clerical tonsure; on 10 March 1691 was promoted to the priesthood, and afterwards spent a few months at Notre Dame des Vertus, a seminary of the Oratorians near Paris. Returning to the Scots College in 1692, he assisted the principal, his elder brother Lewis, in arranging the records of the church of Glasgow, which had been deposited partly in that college and partly in the Carthusian monastery at Paris by Archbishop James Beaton. In 1694 he graduated M.A. at Paris, and in 1695 matriculated in the German nation. After officiating as a priest for two years in the parish of Magnay in the diocese of Paris, he went again to the Scots College in 1697.

In the spring of 1698 he returned to Scotland, and officiated for three years at Inveravon, Banffshire, as a priest of the Scottish mission. In October 1701 he returned to Paris, and became prefect of studies in the Scots College, and also mission agent. There he spent twenty more years. His friendship with Charles Rollin, Jacques-Joseph Duguet, and Jean Santeul led to his being suspected of Jansenism. In 1720 his brother Lewis, in what may be a formal letter to the vicar-general of the Bishop of Apt, contradicted a report that Thomas had concurred in an appeal to a general council against the condemnation of Pasquier Quesnel's 'Moral Reflections' by Pope Clement XI.

After a long absence he again visited Scotland to collect materials for his 'Essay' and his 'History.' In the winter of 1724 he was at Edinburgh, pursuing his researches in the Advocates' Library. In December 1727 he was appointed vice-principal of the Scots College at Paris, where he died on 28 January 1744.

Works
The results of Innes's researches in Scottish history and antiquities were communicated to scholars who sought his assistance. Francis Atterbury and Thomas Ruddiman were among them, and Robert Keith was given materials for his Catalogue of Scottish Bishops. George Grub wrote that Innes was opposed to ultramontanism, but was not Jansenist as historian.

His works are:
 * ‘A Critical Essay on the Ancient Inhabitants of the Northern Parts of Britain or Scotland. Containing an Account of the Romans, of the Britains betwixt the Walls, of the Caledonians or Picts, and particularly of the Scots. With an Appendix of ancient manuscript pieces,’ 2 vols., London, 1729; reprinted, with a Memoir by George Grub, LL.D., in vol. viii. of ‘The Historians of Scotland,’ Edinburgh, 1879. This work elicited an anonymous volume of ‘Remarks’, by George Waddel, Edinburgh, 1733, and 'The Roman Account of Britain and Ireland,' by Alexander Taitt, 1741. Both these replies are reprinted in 'Scotia Rediviva,' 1826, vol. i., and in 'Tracts illustrative of the Antiquities of Scotland,' 1836, vol. i. Innes's reputation mainly rests on this 'Critical Essay.’
 * 'Epistola de veteri apud Scotos habendi Synodos modo,' dated Paris, 23 November 1735. In vol. i. of David Wilkins's 'Concilia Magnæ Britanniæ;' reprinted with Innes's 'Civil and Ecclesiastical History.’
 * 'The Civil and Ecclesiastical History of Scotland,' edited by George Grub, and printed at Aberdeen for the Spalding Club, 1853, from a manuscript in the possession of James Kyle, bishop of Germanica, and vicar-apostolic of the northern district of Scotland.
 * Papers by Innes, and documents connected with his family. In 'Miscellany of the Spalding Club,' ii. 351–80. They include (a) 'Letter to the Chevalier de St. George,' dated 17 October 1729; (b) 'Remarks on a Charter of Prince Henry, son of David I;' (c) 'Of the Salisbury Liturgy used in Scotland.'

Five volumes, mostly in his handwriting, of his manuscript collections in Scottish history, went to the Laing manuscripts in the library of Edinburgh University. A thick quarto volume of collections and dissertations was at Preshome under the charge of Bishop Kyle in 1853. His 'Original Letters,' 1729–33 are the University Library, Edinburgh ('Laing Collections,' No. 346). Several of his letters to the Hon. Harry Maule of Kelly, author of the 'Registrum de Panmure,' are printed in the appendix to John Stuart's edition of that work, 2 vols. Edinburgh, 1874.

The 'Life of King James II' has been attributed to him, but was more probably compiled by his brother, Lewis Innes.

Legacy
The academic journal The Innes Review, published since 1950 by the Scottish Catholic Historical Association, is named after Thomas Innes.

title: Thomas Innes (historian)


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Talk:Queen Elizabeth-class battleship

Italics
I think "Queen Elizabeths" looks ugly and would be better if the whole was italicised (i.e. Queen Elizabeths). Anyone agree/disagree? -- Cabalamat 16:00, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, I made the change because I thought it was an improvement, but change them back if you wish. But the '-s's shouldn't be italicized, since they aren't part of the name.
 * —wwoods 17:00, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Factual Inaccuracy
"they forced the Germans to alter the armament of the Bayern class armament from its original 12 inch (305 mm) guns to 15 inch (381 mm)"

I have removed the following sentence from the introduction as it is fatually incorrect. Most sources suggest that the Germans started developing their 15 inch gun prior the Royal Navy, but could not get the gun into service nearly as fast as the British. I have replaced the sentence with a Quote from the 1919 edition of Janes. Getztashida 15:29, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

The "sinking" of QE and Valiant in Alexandria Harbour, 1941
I've gone around the QE class articles updating the details of this famous incident. Up 'til now, they have all claimed that both ships were "sunk", but there were never any citations. Reading through Stephen Roskill's official history and John Winton's biography of Andrew Cunningham reveals that neither ship was "sunk" by any standards - QE was seriously damaged, suffering loss of power, and eventually grounded on the harbour bottom after counter-flooding to correct her list. Valiant was in a far less serious state, at the damaged section her hull bottom was quite extensively stoved in (but critically not holed, save for started rivets), and she remained clear of the bottom with power, propulsion and armament intact. The damage was still very serious for both ships - and I've made sure that the articles still reflect this - but neither ship could have been said to be "sunk" by any means.

There don't appear to be any good online sources, but see the following discussion:

Warships1 board

Paddyboot (talk) 15:44, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Generally a ship is not classed as 'sunk' unless there is water over the main deck, or if the ship is in shallow water and has capsized etc., so as to render salvage necessary. i.e., the ship is effectively lost unless an inordinate amount of effort is expended to recover her.

 * The best term to use would be 'were put out of action' or something similar. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 13:02, 7 December 2013 (UTC)

Wrong name
HMS Malay, not Malaya —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.21.84 (talk) 00:38, 18 January 2009 (UTC)
 * No, HMS Malaya, not Malay. (Colledge, p.213; Janes, p. 35; Massie, p. 586; here, here and here). Benea (talk) 03:10, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

Propulsion
Queen Elizabeth class battleship: 75,000 shp with 27,500 tons standard and 24 knots Revenge class battleship: 26,500 shp with 29,150 tons standard and 21 knots I think 75,000 shp can not be correct. 188.23.86.150 (talk) 21:38, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

 * It takes a lot of power to get relatively small increases in speed. The numbers are about right195.217.166.8 (talk) 12:48, 15 December 2010 (UTC)

 * The number struck me as a bit excessive, too. Speed goes very roughly as the cube root of shaft horsepower, assuming similar hull form. By that (admittedly rough) formula, the speed ratio 24/21 requires a power ratio of not quite 1.5, considerably less than the nearly 3 to 1 ratio in these numbers. Looking around the Web, I find at http://www.worldwar1.co.uk/battleship/hms-queen-elizabeth.html that the 75,000 shp figure is maximum overload while the normal maximum is 56,000 -- still considerably greater than the cube law would suggest, but it makes me wonder if the problem is an oranges/apples comparison. Yaush (talk) 14:57, 15 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Revenge design legend was 31,000 shp on 25,500 tons 2.100.193.184 (talk) 11:21, 14 June 2023 (UTC)
 * for 21 knots 2.100.193.184 (talk) 11:22, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Design and description
The Queen Elizabeth-class ships were designed to form a fast squadron for the fleet that was intended to operate against the leading ships of the opposing battleline. This required maximum offensive power and a speed several knots faster than any other battleship to allow them to defeat any type of ship.

Warspite had a length overall of 643 ft, a beam of 90 ft and a deep draught of 33 ft. She had a normal displacement of 32590 LT and displaced 33260 LT at deep load. She was powered by two sets of Brown-Curtis steam turbines, each driving two shafts, using steam from 24 Yarrow boilers. The turbines were rated at 75000 shp and intended to reach a maximum speed of 24 kn. Warspite had a range of 5000 nmi at a cruising speed of 12 kn. Her crew numbered 1,025 officers and ratings in 1915 and 1,220 in 1920 while serving as a flagship.

The Queen Elizabeth class was equipped with eight breech-loading (BL) 15 in Mk I guns in four twin gun turrets, in two superfiring pairs fore and aft of the superstructure, designated 'A', 'B', 'X', and 'Y' from front to rear. Twelve of the fourteen BL 6 in Mk XII guns were mounted in casemates along the broadside of the vessel amidships; the remaining pair were mounted on the forecastle deck near the aft funnel and were protected by gun shields. Their anti-aircraft (AA) armament consisted of two quick-firing (QF) 3 in 20 cwt Mk I guns. The ships were fitted with four submerged 21 in torpedo tubes, two on each broadside.

Warspite was completed with two fire-control directors fitted with 15 ft rangefinders. One was mounted above the conning tower, protected by an armoured hood, and the other was in the spotting top above the tripod foremast. Each turret was also fitted with a 15-foot rangefinder. The main armament could be controlled by 'B' turret as well. The secondary armament was primarily controlled by directors mounted on each side of the compass platform on the foremast once they were fitted in July 1917.

The waterline belt of the Queen Elizabeth class consisted of Krupp cemented armour (KC) that was 13 in thick over the ships' vitals. The gun turrets were protected by 11 to 13 in of KC armour and were supported by barbettes 7 - 10 in thick. The ships had multiple armoured decks that ranged from 1 to 3 in in thickness. The main conning tower was protected by 13 inches of armour. After the Battle of Jutland, 1 inch of high-tensile steel was added to the main deck over the magazines and additional anti-flash equipment was added in the magazines.

Secondary Armament
HMS Queen Elizabeth did have 16 6" guns. If the remainder of the vessels did not have 16 6" guns then shouldn't the table say 12- 16 6" guns? Wandavianempire (talk) 18:22, 13 February 2020 (UTC)

Put names up front
When I, and probably many other readers, link to the page about a class of ships, it is usually to find out which ships were in that class. Therefore I suggest putting the names in the introduction. Granted, that might not be possible for ships with many examples. I considered making this edit myself, but I suspect some sort of standard exists. So I won’t meddle. Humphrey Tribble (talk) 05:43, 21 August 2023 (UTC)

how many ships she sank
there's no real number but you can find archives in the british navy museum.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Queen Elizabeth-class battleship


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Talk:Flag of Greece

Untitled
Why doesn't the image of the old flat show up on this page? When you click on it to enlarge it, the full size picture does exist. --Patik 16:02, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

Inconsistency with other article
According to the Sipahi article, the Sipahis were exclusively of Turkic ethnic origin. This is dubious for that time and there's no in-text citation supporting the claim other than a translation of an Ottoman law book (uncited as well). In this article however, it is claimed that Christian Sipahis existed and were allowed to fly their own Christian flag at times. As this claim is unsourced as well I added a couple of "citation needed" tags in that particular section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rhomaios (talk • contribs) 21:57, 6 March 2013 (UTC)

The previous flag
I did a "sorta" revert on the previous Greek flag. The cross on the SVG version was way too wide based on what I have seen. Not having a program to convert things to SVG, I merely modified the old PNG to make the colors similar to the one on the new version. Yahnatan 13:22, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Continued reverts

 * I know SVG is the preferred format for images like this, but please don't make blind reverts or changes. I have no way to make an SVG image, so I am going to keep the old flag on the PNG image (which is correct) until someone out there would be kind enough to make an SVG image that has the more correct proportions. Yahnatan 14:33, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

 * I have uploaded an SVG file of the old national flag of Greece. The cross on the previous versions were either too wide or too narrow; I have a number of scans of old postcards that depict this flag with what I assume to be the correct proportions - I can include an example in this article if needed. Dragases 06:40, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

 * ''I have replace the image of the current flag of Greece with a more accurate representation of the colours. I understand that there is no official shade of blue for the Greek flag, but in most cases (at least, on all official depictions) the shade is often a darker, royal blue. Dragases 09:48, 19 April 2006 (UTC)"

 * I've uploaded the flags on the commons, which is what you should have done, too. Please don't do this in the future, but instead discuss such changes on the talk pages of the files at the Wikimedia Commons. Thanks. — Nightst a  llion  (?) Seen this already? 16:52, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Any idea why the old flag isn't showing up on the main page anymore? Both of my browsers are showing a blank. The full-size flag *is* on the commons page though. Yahnatan 17:31, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Bad SVG code, possibly? Mh. — Nightst a  llion  (?) Seen this already? 08:56, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

Greek Flag
I had rewritten the greek article in the past and I've placed in comments here the history of the Greek Flag through the greek laws that describe it. I had totaly forgotten about it, till today. Someone should translate these into english, to avoid original research like that about 9 muses etc. The part about Byzantine Eagle is redundant, it should go to Double-headed eagle and it should mention sources. talk to +MATIA 17:09, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Refences
The references mentioned have English titles. If these books were written in Greek rather than English, would somebody add the correct Greek titles? Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 23:09, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Byzantine navy flag
What is the reference for this flag? As far as I know, the BBBB motto was of the Palaeologus dynasty, so it is impossible it was used in the 4th century.--RedMC 19:36, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * This "Byzantine navy flag" is, as I read in FOTW, a reconstruction from a Naval Museum in Crete. No idea where they got it from though. There is no indication of the use of the 4 B's prior to the 13th century (at least not that I know of), but most Byzantine flags did indeed feature the cross, sometimes with letters in the four quadrants, mostly of religious significance (e.g. IC XC NI KA "Jesus Christ Conquers). As a contributor to this article, I am certainly not happy with its authenticity, and the reference to the 4th century is - most likely - wrong, but so far I've let it stand there as an example of all these cross-and-letters flags. Regards, Cplakidas 20:09, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
 * In that case I'll reword the caption.--RedMC 20:35, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

But some Greecians refer to the flag as dome-fiotso, meaning hatred
In the end of the first paragraph, it writes: But some Greecians refer to the flag as dome-fiotso, meaning hatred.

Is this vandalism? Dome-fiotso? Never heard of that. Comment. 62.103.147.55 05:22, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

 * The (also) anon user who did it, tried to conceal it by also changing the spelling of civilisation to civilization. I removed it. No idea what it means whatsoever. NikoSilver 11:19, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

Nine muses for nine stripes
...is probably urban legend. At least as long as it's unsourced. 74.53.9.2 14:52, 1 May 2007 (UTC)

Old Parliament building in Athens
They no longer fly the old flag at the Old Parliament building in Athens. It was recently replaced with the national flag. Sv1xv (talk) 13:19, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

 * Really? I was there about 2 weeks ago and it was there... Is this an official decision? If so, pity. Constantine  ✍  13:38, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, I don't know if it is an official decision. I just noticed it a couple of days ago. Sv1xv (talk) 14:22, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

The old-style national flag at the Old Parliament building has been restored. Sv1xv (talk) 02:16, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Slight Problem
One of the pictures of the flag has a caption reading "Flag flown on Santorini". I was wondering if someone could add /Thēra after Santorini, or possible add "alternatively called Thēra". My problem is that Santorini is the Italian name for the island, and both names are acceptable. I would do it, but when I go to edit it, I can't spot the caption on the page. Kostantino888Z (talk) 22:08, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Blue and White Colors
Back in 2006 I found a five-line article about Greek flag and expanded it to (pretty much) its current form. Since then, many users have kindly contributed and perfected the article. I was kind of surprised, though, visiting the article after a long time, to see that all of my references (including citations) about the blue and white colors had been wiped out.

I do respect the scientific approach of many users, and do recognize that the historical research on the Greek flag is extremely limited and often unreliable. Please note that even the so much "promoted" Byzantine flag from the 14th century Spanish Atlas should be seen with some reservation. This design cannot be found (to my knowledge) in any Greek source, looks awfully similar to a Catalan flag of the time (see A. Znamierowski, the World Encyclopedia of Flags, p. 101), and there is a possibility that it was a variation for local usage.

Nonetheless, I added back a small chapter about the colors, with all the reservations I consider reasonable. I don't want to start an endless thread, but I think all theories should at least be presented and respected, provided they are based on sources that cannot be easily rejected. Skartsis (talk) 17:02, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Hello Skartsis! As I am the one who "wiped out" most of these references, let me explain myself. Most of these occurrences are, as you yourself admit, coincidental, but they have nevertheless been construed, in the typical Greek fashion, to constitute "unshakeable evidence of the nation's continuity". Since Byzantium is referred to, and this happens to be an area of great interest to me, let me point out just a few of the issues here: first, the "devilion" is a term I have never come across while reading Byzantine texts or books on Byzantium, including works on emblems, the army, etc. Second, there is zero evidence anywhere that there were any "white and blue" Byzantine flags, or, to be more exact, that there were any flags in the modern sense, aside from army unit banners, which however are usually represented in manuscripts with all kind of colours (mostly red and blue). There is also no indication (aside from the legend on the Kallergis' coat of arms, which is undoubtedly of much later origin) of "blue and white" coats of arms or emblems of any kind. The emperor also never used "blue and white" clothes, at least not according to the very meticulous Taktika, etc... The list goes on. As for Antiquity, the only solidly attested flag I know of was red, the phoinikis, a reference to which I added. Where the above authors have found the "blue and white" flags of Alexander the Great is a mystery to me.
 * I have looked through the Zafeiriou and Kokkonis books for instance, and there are (IIRC) no ancient or medieval primary sources mentioned. Mostly they refer to the book by Tzouras, which I do not have access to. However, given the time it was written, I have grave doubts on its reliability and neutrality as a secondary source. Even if the items listed were true, this still would not constitute any relation whatsoever with the modern flag, since someone would have to prove that the people at Epidaurus in 1821 consciously patterned the new state's flag after those ancient and medieval precedents. Of this there is no evidence, and every source I've read on this says quite clearly that the reason these colours and arrangement were chosen is unknown. Per WP guidelines, we simply cannot support or even imply continuity based on coincidence (and outright error or even invention, I am afraid). I appreciate national myths, but this is IMO a blatant case of perpetuated, un-verifiable original research and we should make a stand against it.
 * PS, for the 14th-century Byzantine flag, the overall design may perhaps be inaccurate, but a) it comes from a contemporary primary source, and more importantly b) the use of the tetragrammic cross in flags is well attested (see the article on Byzantine heraldry). Its verifiability is therefore head and shoulders above the "blue and white" emblems mentioned in the article. Best regards, Constantine  ✍  18:07, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Hello Constantine. First of all, I don't want to be misunderstood on one thing: I truly appreciate a meticulous, scientific approach, especially to sensitive issues like this; this protects Wikipedia from its biggest threat: lack of credibility.
 * I have also been puzzled, since my young age, about the sources of some of the "research" on several such issues. Very often old authors were "sloppy", without proper citations in the modern sense. However, one has to be careful before discarding such texts, assuming - more or less - fabrication of facts. There is EXTREMELY little written evidence on details of Byzantine life, and one cannot exclude oral tradition (with all its ambiguity); on the other hand, some of these authors may have had access to sources not obvious to us today. My feeling is that what is written in these books cannot be that easily discarded altogether. By the way, Tzouras's book (which I found in the Piraeus Naval Museum, but I am sure one can also find it in other libraries) provides specific references for the Devilion (Δεβίλιον - see note 3 on page 14 "χρον. Γεωρ. Γραντζή Βιβλ. Β' Κεφ. Λ' σελ. 28").
 * I actually have more reservations about the Kallergis "tradition". Years ago I contacted one of their descendants, I think it was Emmanouel (Manolis) Kallergis who has researched their background and is the author of "ta tragoudia ton Kallergidon". He could also verify a coat of arms with blue and silver (rather than white) stripes, but nothing like the modern Greek flag. And I do have very serious reservations about the flag from the Spanish Atlas that you so much "promote" (I am not talking about the tetragrammatic cross and its colors on the upper right and lower left, but the overall "heraldic" arrangement, following the pattern of a 1350 Barcelona flag - especially since there was no Byzantine "state flag" as such). Either some Spaniard "interpreted" a Byzantine symbol in such a fashion, or some local representative used such a variation.
 * There is no way - I agree - that when the modern Greek flag was designed, all this claimed older usage was even known, let alone influnce the pattern. That's why it should be stated that even if accurate, it only adds significance AFTER the fact (design) - as it happens with many flags around the world whose colors are later connected with differentiated references.
 * Based on all the above, it is reasonable to add reservations (a lot, if you want) to any claims, I fully agree, and the article HAD to be corrected. Where I disagree, though, is the "easy" assumption about fabricated facts and dismissal of such information altogether. Best Regards, Labros Skartsis (talk) 15:11, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

Continuing on the above, I have added some more "clarifying" reservations in the chapter about the colors. See if you agree, and you may, if you want, add your own. Skartsis (talk) 15:42, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your reply. For this devilion, would it be possible for you to provide the exact citation, and perhaps the primary medieval source where it can be found? I doubt whether I will be able to consult with a library in the next few weeks, and I really want to see what Tzouras has to say about this. As for the section on the blue and white colours, by all means let it stay, but I suggest that it be moved further down, perhaps as a subsection to the adoption of the modern flag, since having it as a separate section so early on is somewhat misleading (i.e. everything that comes after will be interpreted based on that section). I also agree with the general thrust of your comments, i.e. to make clear that this is what Greek flag books claim (given the prominence and ubiquitousness of such claims in Greece, I have come to think that they should be retained, if only to be refuted), but that there exists little evidence to back them up. And let us also include the Kallergis claim there as well, since this is a variation of the same theme. If you can provide any sources from Tzouras to back up any of these claims, please do (with the proviso that a primary source is referenced for them, not just the author's opinion).
 * For the "Spanish" Byzantine flag, I agree with your suspicions. To me too this arrangement smacks of a "westernized" interpretation. But, as I said before, it is the only attested design, and it accords to some extent of what we reliably know of later imperial flags. In comparison to the ubiquitous double-headed eagle "Byzantine flags" everyone knows and which never existed, this one is a much more solidly evidenced pattern. Constantine  ✍  15:47, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

 * I transfer what I see from my photocopy of page 15 : "Ιδ. χρον. Γεωρ. Γραντζή Βιβλ. Β' Κεφ. Λ' σελ. 28 (description of the devilion represented on the Emperor's crown), ιδ. και εν τη εφημερίδα Εθνικ. Νομισματ. Μουσείου του έτους 1889 Σελ. 363-389." As for the Kallergis - Phocas story, Tzouras, too, cites "Σάθα, Κρητικόν Θέατρον (πρόλογος)", a 1860s book that is supposed to be in the national library, but is never available (and which, frankly, I don't know how reliable a source it can be). Good luck ! Skartsis (talk) 16:06, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

 * I guess the former is meant to be George Sphrantzes, since no Chronicle of a George Grantzes exists. In that case, the reference is odd. The second book only has 15 chapters, and I cannot find any reference to this "devilion" anywhere in it. I've also done a cursory check on the other two books, again nothing. Sorry to impose on you, but if you could scan the page and upload it or send it in an email, it'd be great. Constantine  ✍  10:41, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Indeed, I know Frantzis or Sfrantzis, but not Grantzis. Amyway, I'll scan and send the Tzouras book page with the ref. (I need your e-mail). When you say "other two books" do you mean Zafeiriou and Kokkonis ? (because we know they definitely do not have anything about the devilion). Sathas talks about Kallergis. Skartsis (talk) 15:13, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

 * No, I meant books I & III of Sphrantzes' Chronicle.  Cheers, Constantine   ✍  15:59, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

 * OK, I sent it Skartsis (talk) 18:16, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Thanks for the prompt reply! All right, let's see. The Λ was actually a badly printed A. I checked the chapter again, but no written reference. It is therefore likely that Tzouras means an illustration included in some Greek edition. I did however remember having seen a term similar to the "devilion", and searched pseudo-Kodinos's Book of Offices. Sure enough, there is mention of the Διβέλλιον, on which more here. But, as you will notice, there is no mention of it being of any precise shape or colour whatsoever (nor is there in the original text of Kodinos). It seems to me that the author, aside from getting the name wrong, also confused the dibellion with the flag of the naval vessels (the βασιλικόν φλάμουλον), which is simply the tetragrammic cross (and certainly not the dibellion, which is explicitly stated to have been unique). Tzouras (or the source he relies on) most likely misinterpreted the term πυρέκβολα ("firesteels"), by which the four stylized "B"s are meant, as these rays he talks about.

Overall however, the picture that Tzouras' book presents unfortunately corresponds to what I feared. His only concern is to list as many incidences of "blue and white" being associated, however tenuously, with the Greeks, and that they consequently where "national colours" retained through the ages. The very fact that he brings in Christ and the clothes he supposedly wore or that he compares the colours of the circus factions with the Italian flag, show what kind of "scholar" he is. As for the clothes of the despotes and sebastokratores, you can see for yourself: mostly red with gold and white. Granted, the sebastokrator's shoes were blue, but that's about it. In conclusion, Tzouras can under no circumstances be regarded as a reliable source (more like an early Liakopoulos, I'd say ;P). Best regards, Constantine  ✍  20:37, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Good job, Constantine. Such efforts only enhance Wikipedia's value. However, despite having said that I don't want to start an endless thread, I'll just have to give you my overall "feeling".

I wouldn't be so sure about all the above...

In brief, as we are talking about a period for which today we have very little evidence and written proof, I would be very cautious before discarding entire works, even assuming fabricated facts. Not before one is aware of every single manuscript "hidden" in a monastery or a library archive, or lost for ever a hundred - or more - years ago, can say that so prevalent popular beliefs or things repeated for so many years in so many sources are "definitely untrue".

No doubt, Tzouras belonged to this old-fashioned "patriotic" school of thought. He was sloppy and wanted to interpret things his way, but he did not fabricate things. So, after all there existed a Divelion (granted, not Devilion). As for his reference, he obviously refers to an edition of the chronicle with an image (he describes a representation of it, as it appears on Paleologos's crown). I have no reason to assume that he confused it with anything, because I (and we) don't have access to what he saw and what he read. I remember being a kid and reading in an old (1920s) encyclopedia about Paleologos's "blue and white flag". So, no, I am not sure about this, as I am not sure about the usage and the origins of the double-headed eagle, or nobles' clothes (of which period?), or the origins of the tetragrammatic cross. Because there is today incredible lack of evidence (my own sister has done her Ph.D. in Byzantine archaeology and is equally frustrated), and I don't have access to all the sources that people who wrote and talked about these issues - especially 100 or more years ago - perhaps had (unreliable as they may have been).

In brief, I am just not as sure as you are. I think we are both clear in our points of view, no hard feelings or anything. As long as enough reservations and documentation is provided, I believe Wiki's credibility will be fairly well protected. Best Regards, Labros Skartsis (talk) 16:35, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Of course there are no hard feelings. This is not a dispute, after all, although I may sometimes come across as a bit abrupt in my writing. I really enjoy working with you in this one, and it already has produced positive results: I added the dibellion to the Byzantine heraldry article. Regarding Tzouras, I never said he fabricated the evidence. He consistently misinterprets it however, and engages in what in wiki-parlance would be a perfect example of WP:SYNTH. How did he know the dibellion was blue and white, if no safely identified representation of it survives (per the very credible secondary source I gave above)? If his source is a 19th-century illustration, what guarantee is there that this was not invented or coloured from the artist's imagination? I can not in all honesty believe that he had access to a source in the 19th century that is lost to scholars today, after more than 100 years of more and more manuscripts being discovered, edited and published. It is like using 19th-century books on the appearance of the late Roman army.
 * To be honest, I am annoyed and appalled by the poor level of genuine research done in Greece even today (not only in history, alas), and what I've seen of most self-proclaimed Greek "historical" authors who write on similar subjects is not encouraging. They are more interested in propaganda than truth. Given that the primary sources are PD and freely available, and that there are excellent secondary and tertiary sources available (Greek and foreign), I see no reason to lend credence to a Greek army officer who wrote at a time where historical objectivity, even amongst scholars, was not very high.
 * Simply put, an author who clearly has an agenda of questionable validity, and who in two occasions gets his descriptions (which form a central core of his argument) wrong in the space of a single page, and who brings in Christ and his disciples as an argument, must be treated very carefully. Sure, there is scarcity of evidence (alas...), but that is no reason to suppose that he had some secret source that told him things we don't know. I appreciate the uncertainty factor, and that you hesitate to dismiss Tzouras out of hand, but the threshold for Wikipedia is the famous "verifiability, not truth". And as far as I am concerned Tzouras is demonstrably not a verifiable, reliable, or neutral source.
 * Anyhow, as I said, I do agree with letting these widely used and accepted myths in the article, as long as it is made clear that they are included as "popular perceptions", and that they do not correspond to facts. Only please let's move the section further down, for in its present place, right at the beginning, it assumes the air of legitimacy.Constantine  ✍  19:04, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Please move the section, no problem (obviously) with me. The topic is definitely interesting, I agree, and I hope at some point we'll "unearth" all surviving sources about the double-headed eagle, Phocas, Kallergis etc. Skartsis (talk) 19:49, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

"Tetragrammic cross" or "tetragrammatic cross" ?
In this article and elsewhere the term "tetragrammic cross" is used (for the late Byzantine emblem). Apart from an apparent "transliteration" logic, I also have seen it described in several other sources as "tetragrammatic cross". Which is the correct version ? (I have a feeling the second should be more correct). Obviously I did not change anything. What I did change, though, was the mention of the "plain" Greek flag as "a white St'George's cross on a blue background". I am quite positive that St'George's cross is associated with red on white. In case there are arguments against it, please go ahead and make a correction. Skartsis (talk) 18:34, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * In western (mainly british) heraldry, the attributed arms of St George consist of a red cross on a silver (white) field. In Greece, where no heraldic tradition exists, simply there is no such thing as a "St. George's cross". SV1XV (talk) 20:34, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Thanks, I agree. I also went ahead and changed "tetragrammic" to "tetragrammatic" as it appears more correct from a "transliteration" point of view, and as I have only seen it as such in every (other than Wiki-sourced) source I have seen. Obviously it can be changed, if anybody has arguments supporting the "tetragrammic" version. Skartsis (talk) 07:48, 23 July 2010 (UTC)
 * "Tetragrammic" was the form used in the Oxford Dictionary of Byzantium, which is why I changed it from "tetragrammatic". I don't know which is to be preferred, though. For the St. George's cross, as a design it is present in Byzantine art from the 12th century on, probably under the influence of the Crusaders, e.g. in a rather well-known icon (ca. 1300) of SS Sergius and Bacchus from Sinai . Constantine  ✍  08:47, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I don't want to start a "theory" but as far as "St.George's cross is concerned (I mean with red on white), as it appears on the "Flag of the Empire of Constantinople" depicted in the Spanish Atlas, I am quite confident that it represents Genoa. This particular quartered arrangement features the usual "Western" pattern of combination of two entities; in this case, it appears to combine the usual Byzantine tetragrammatic cross with Genoa's cross (logically representing the semi-autonomous settlement in Galata). This is the reason why I think that this quartered flag was stricly a "Constantinople" symbol, perhaps used for a limited time. Skartsis (talk) 11:02, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

Flag Colors
Anybody knows the exact codes of the colors? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.88.23.150 (talk) 12:28, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

 * There is no exact specification in the constitution of the shade of blue on the Greek national flag. The current design has been depicted/flown in various shades in recent times (post junta); dark - no darker than Egyptian Blue, to as light as Sky Blue. Most non-Greek flag manufacturers I've seen on the web sell a sky blue version (which, in my opinion is WRONG). In most official representations though (from my experience having served in the Greek military), the most accurate shade of blue I remember seeing the national flag was closer to a blue between Egyptian blue and Persian blue. I'd go so far as to say that the shade on the flag depicted on Wikipedia in the Flag of Greece article (as of 28/10/2011) is too light. Dragases (talk) 02:50, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Actually there are no "wrong" versions, as long as the Greek Government does not bother to specify a specific shade of blue using modern color specification standards. SV1XV (talk) 04:57, 30 January 2011 (UTC)
 * OK, maybe instead of "wrong" I should have written "extremely uncommon". Regardless of what is depicted on the site of the Presidency, the shade of blue I've seen used on all examples of "official" (i.e. government, military) national flags have been closer to the shade I mentioned above. I believe this is a better indication of which shade is officially preferred. Dragases (talk) 14:03, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I beg to differ. If you remember, the color of the flag at the opening ceremony of Athens 2004 was approximately . The current version on wikipedia is a compromise between the very light and very dark  versions in use. I chose it for that exact reason. It sits between the two extremes and it is the color shown in the presidency website. --Philly boy92 (talk) 15:32, 1 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Then, we agree to disagree. I have a sewn national flag which was obtained during my time in the military, and it is the same shade as all the national flags we used in an official capacity (i.e. on bases, exercises, parades etc.); it is closer to Egyptian blue in shade. All Naval vessels I've seen fly the flag with the darker shade. In any case, that's my opinion. Cheers. Dragases (talk) 04:19, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

 * The Flags of the World website at any rate has the shade of blue as Pantone 286 c, which is indeed darker than the current version. Constantine  ✍  10:54, 28 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Whats the source that specifies the flag color as Panton 286? As far as I'm aware the government has not released any official colors. The ones in the current flag are based on the flag shown in the site of the Presidency, which is something between the very dark and very light variations in use throughout the country. The previous version was too dark. --Philly boy92 (talk) 14:08, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

Original flag of the merchant marine
The flag displayed ("Short-lived merchant marine flag, 1822–28") is in contradiction with the written part of the article and the site of the Hellenic army, which state it was the same as the the navy flag except the cross being blue on white ground. There is no source for this picture. Shouldn't we remove it?--Phso2 (talk) 20:15, 13 October 2010 (UTC)

 * I don't know where you saw that. Read the army article again: the original decree clearly states "for the merchant ships the background shall be blue, and in the inner upper corner (i.e. the canton) there shall be a white square and divided in the middle by a blue cross". The merchant flag is even depicted in the gallery at the end...
 * You're right, I misread the decree and was confused by the presidential page ("The only difference in the flag of the merchant marine was the reversal of colors in the corner"). Sorry.--Phso2 (talk) 13:52, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

 * No problem, we all make mistakes :) Constantine  ✍  14:34, 16 October 2010 (UTC)

 * From the Presidency of the Hellenic Republic:
 * "The land flag was square in shape, and had a white cross on a blue background. The marine flags resembled today's national flag. The only difference in the flag of the merchant marine was the reversal of colors in the corner where the cross was (a blue cross on a white background)" (link)
 * Therefore, the flag would have looked like this [[image:Merchant Navy of Greece flag (1822-1828).svg|20px|border]] and not like this [[image:Greek merchant navy flag.svg|20px|border]]. Also, a lot of images are depicted in the gallery at the end, without any mention as to what each one of them actually is. The [[image:Greek merchant navy flag.svg|20px|border]] flag in the gallery bares no marking to make us assume that it was actually used as a merchant navy flag. Philly boy92 (talk) 19:10, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

Philly, the presidency site's description is over-simplified: all flag books agree on the old form, and the text of the original decree mentions nothing about stripes for the merchant flag, while it explicitly refers to them for the ensign: "δε κατά θάλασσαν σημαία θα ήτο διττή' μία διά τα πολεμικά και άλλη διά τα εμπορικά πλοία. Και της μεν διά τα πολεμικά πλοία το εμβαδόν θα διηρείτο ες εννέα οριζόντια παραλληλόγραμμα, παραμειβομένων εις αυτά των χρωμάτων λευκού και κυανού' εις την άνω δε προς τα έσω γωνίαν τούτου του εμβαδού εσχηματίζετο τετράγωνον κυανόχρουν, διηρημένον εν τω μέσω δι' ενός σταυρού λευκοχρόου. Της δε διά τα εμπορικά πλοία διωρισμένης το εμβαδό θα ήτο κυανούν εις την άνω προς τα έσω γωνίαν τούτου του εμβαδού εσχηματίζετο ωσαύτως τετράγωνον λευκόχρουν και διηρημένον εν τω μέσω δι' ενός σταυρού κυανοχρόου.". Constantine  ✍  09:24, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
 * You can't expect the site of the presidency of the Republic to be simply "mistaken" on something as important as symbols of state. However, I do stand corrected since it is explicitely mentioned here that the blue-with-white-canton flag was indeed the flag of the merchant marine. May I also point out that since "τετράγωνον λευκόχρουν" was what the emerchant marine flag had at the canton, the current version (rectangle) is not correct. This would also apply to the national flag, also described as "a square", unless square had a different meaning back then, including rectangles? Philly boy92 (talk) 17:45, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

 * I did not say "mistaken", I said "over-simplified", which it evidently is. Don't forget, heraldry and precision in such things is not really appreciated in Greece, and are usually treated hastily and sloppily. You raise a good point about the rectangle/square version, but a) τετράγωνον could mean any rectangle and b) I have yet to see any rendering of the merchant flag, whether Greek or foreign, with a square canton. Constantine  ✍  20:16, 22 December 2010 (UTC)

 * I am aware of at least one instance where the canton of a national flag was square and not rectangular, and that is the Kingdom of Sardinia [[image:Flag_of_the_Kingdom_of_Sardinia.svg|20px|border]]. Taking into consideration that -as you said- the matter of heraldry is not taken too seriously in Greece, I would not be surprised if the versions presented in the history books and the army website were wrong. Furthermore, the definition of a "square" is "a rectangle whose sides are equal in size". Additionally, from Decree no. 540: "[the flag] of the ground forces, square in shape, is to be blue in color and divided into four equal parts by a white cross, crossing all the way to the edge of the flag". This is dubious in itself, since the wording provides for two different explanations:
 * that the flag was square and divided into four smaller squares equal in size with eachother (like the canton of the current national flag) or
 * that the flag was rectangular and divided into four smaller rectangles equal in size with eachother (like the flag under Otto)
 * So, was the first national flag almost identical to today's army flag [[image:War flag of the Hellenic Army.svg|10px|border]] or the naval jack [[image:Naval_Jack_of_Greece.svg|10px|border]], or was it rectangular [[image:Flag_of_Greece_(1828-1978).svg|20px|border]]? Square flags exist to this day anyway ([[image:Flag of Belgium.svg|12px|border]] 13:15, [[image:Flag of Switzerland.svg|10px|border]] 1:1 ). Its a question of what they meant with the decree here, and the wording is quite confusing and inaccurate. Additionally, I believe we should set a standard shade of blue for all Greek flags on wikipedia, despite the fact that there is no "correct" shade of blue. My idea was that we choose the colors of the flag presented in the site of the presidency ( and ) and use those an all Greek flags as it looks better than having 6 different shades of blue (the flags under Otto are excluded, since they were lighter in color). Not to mention that its a good balace between "very light" and "very dark" blue.
 * Anyway, I think the "flag of Greece" needs a lot of discussion....! Philly boy92 (talk) 23:57, 22 December 2010 (UTC)
 * Also, an image of the merchant marine flag with a square canton can be seen here. If you think about it, it makes sense that the canton of the merchant marine flag is square, since the canton of the civil and state ensign is also square. Additionally this [[image:Merchant Navy of Greece flag (1822-1828).svg|border|20px]] flag can be seen here ("Maritime Flags of All Nations") and here. --Philly boy92 (talk) 22:51, 23 December 2010 (UTC)

 * Hmmm, the Italian site mentions the [[image:Merchant Navy of Greece flag (1822-1828).svg|border|20px]] flag as illustrated in some depictions, and I wouldn't place too much trust on a 19th-century book for Greece, which after all was an obscure nation at the time. There is nothing about this version being official in any way, nor any decree which prescribes it. It is far more probable that we are dealing with either a) an artist's error, perhaps resulting from confusion with the short-lived actual merchant ensign or b) flags actually flown but which were made privately by the ship captains who probably misinterpreted the flag decree. In the same vein, I have seen actual examples of naval flags with more or less than nine stripes, or with non-square cantons. Just because these flags existed does not mean we have to inundate the article with every single variant that was created. Constantine   ✍  10:48, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

Kallergis Flag
Returning to the Flag of Greece article after a long time, I see that many of the original arguments remain (something that may help perfect the article and promote relevant research). I also see that some flags heve been added, including the supposed "Kallergis flag".

I'm afraid that the particular depiction (Kallergis flag) is completely arbitary. Since the existence of an old (17th century or earlier) flag that is virtually identical to modern Greece's sea (and later national) flag is obviously a VERY important issue, I tried to research it. Following the citations of all relevant old books I could not locate any "original" source (as is usually the case, one copies the other and thus the info propagates), just one reference that could perhaps lead to one, i.e., Sathas's "Κρητικόν Θέατρον", a book orginally published in Venice in the 1860s (every time I attempted, the National Library in Athens responded "not available"- anybody tried to find it?).

So I tried to seek a theoretically more "original" source: the Kallergis descendants. Thus I contacted Mr. Manolis Kallergis, who has published several books about his family's history. Mr. Kallergis confirmed a coat of arms with blue and white (actually silver) stripes, which anyway can still be seen in churches in Crete to this date, but knew nothing about the exact pattern that looks identical to today's Greek flag. Also, there is no "concrete" evidence about any Nikephoros Phokas's flag that looked like that.

In other words, the challenge remains: will anybody be able to locate any more substantial evidence about Phokas's or Kallergis's flags/coat of arms ? THIS would be a great contribution. Skartsis (talk) 15:55, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Due to the (very) limited bibliography on the evolution of the Greek flag, at least as far as I'm aware, most of the information comes from the website of the Greek armed forces and the research that they have done. I would be very interested in reading some of Mr. Kallergis' books, if you can provide some titles for us, in relation to the subject. --[[image:Caprica_flag_symbol.png|border|15px|link=Twelve Colonies]] Philly boy92 (talk) 16:34, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

 * Just a couple of quick notes: I largely share Skartsis' concerns on the Kallergis flag. A word of caution also re the Greek Armed Forces website, as it probably relies itself mostly on the Kokkonis book which is used as a textbook in military and police academies. I'd not rely on it for much before 1821. I also have some concerns on the civil flag of the Cretan State, with the stripes. Aside from the Italian website, is there any other source that has it? Constantine  ✍  18:21, 12 March 2011 (UTC)

 * In this site, see bottom of the page, there is one relevant book (with, actually, one Kallergis coat of arms on the cover!). So see if you can contact Mr. Kallergis and if you have better luck than me. Philly boy: don't consider the Armed Forces Website a "scientific" source. Absolutely not ! Some people wrote books in the early 1900's, and whatever they wrote has been reproduced and propagated to this date, in typical Greek fashion, without further research. I've made this mistake myself. I am not ready to classify all this info as "garbage", but we all DO need to find some more hard evidence about such important matters. Whoever can unearth something substantial in the Kallergis issue will have made a truly scientific contribution. Skartsis (talk) 15:07, 14 March 2011 (UTC)

 * For the record, there are several examples of the Kallergis arms at http://pandektis.ekt.gr/pandektis/, for instance, and . While they have the blue-and-white stripes, there is nothing to suggest either a) a cross in a canton or b) that they were ever used as a flag, let alone that they inspired the Greek flag. Constantine   ✍  12:17, 9 April 2011 (UTC)
 * Coats of arms were (and still are) displayed as a flag which is called an armorial banner. However, there is no evidence for a direct connection between Kallergis arms and the greek flag. SV1XV (talk) 19:57, 9 April 2011 (UTC)

 * Nobody said it was gonna be easy, Folks! These images are well known, as is the fact that they don't correlate with the theory about the flag with the cross in the canton etc. The question is whether we can "unearth" evidence (if it really exists) about such claims, included in the old books we have talked about. The one possible lead I am aware of, could be in Sathas' book about Cretan theater (not available in both National and Parliament libraries). Skartsis (talk) 15:37, 11 April 2011 (UTC)

War flags
War flags are also used by the Army NCO Academy and the Police Academy. They paraded with war flags on Independence Day 2011. SV1XV (talk) 13:29, 25 March 2011 (UTC)

Reverse of the Flag of the Sacred Band
If I may ask, what happened to the reverse of the Flag of the Scared Band that showed Saints Constantine and Helen? Has been deemed unrealistic or fake? Kostantino888Z (talk) 21:42, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

 * Good question. AFAIK the reverse did not have this wreathed cross, but a cursory search in the internet revealed such example. We are now faced with two versions of the reverse, obviously something isn't right here. Constantine  ✍  12:39, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

 * From my research, the flag of Alexander Ypsilantis was different from the flag of the Sacred Band. The Ypsilantis family continued to use the flag with the wreathed red cross, but the sacred band (whose flag featured Constantine and Helen) was discontinued after the defeat of the Sacred Band in Romania in 1821. Although they both were tricolor, the color arrangement differed; the Sacred Band used a tricolor of red-white-black (reverse: [[image:Sacred band 1821.gif|border|20px]], obverse: [[image:YpsilantisFlag.svg|border|20px]]) and Ypsilantis used a flag of black-white-red ([[image:Alexander Ypsilantis flag (observe).svg|border|20px]]) the reverse of which was similar to the obverse version of the flag of the Sacred Band with the phoenix rising from its ashes. They were both inspired by Rigas Feraios' flag of red-white-black ([[image:Flag of Rigas Feraios.svg|border|20px]]). --Philly boy92 (talk) 12:57, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

That flag is of such bad quality, perhaps it could be upgraded to a png or svg and made bigger and clearer? Kostantino888Z (talk) 03:57, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

'Similar' flags section
The title of the article is 'Flag of Greece', so I assume that various sections are more or less irrelevant or at least not closely connected with the title but they would fit in an article called 'Flags used in Greece through the centuries'. So we have, galleries, galleries and galleries, nearly all flags used by the Armed forces, or during the War of Independence and of course many of them are not even similar to the official flag.

Of course the most irrelevant section is the 'similar flags', which contains no prose, and is just another gallery in this article. So for consistency with Flag Countries articles and per Images, the specific gallery needs to go and some trimming in various other sections also necessary.Alexikoua (talk) 21:47, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

I've checked the ca. 25 FA, GA articles of Flags of Countries, but no similar category as similar flags in order to produce a random collection of a general category of flag types (in the case here canton type flags with stripes, with the exception of Cuba which is even more unrelated).Alexikoua (talk) 22:21, 27 August 2011 (UTC)

 * I agree with Alexi. "similar" galleries are OK for commons, but not of any real encyclopaedic value, unless one or more can be proven to have provided direct inspiration for the Greek flag, or been inspired by it, which is a completely different criterion either way. Constantine  ✍  08:56, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

1936 Olympics
I just saw a documentary (One Day in September) which shows some archive videos from the 1936 Olympic Games opening ceremony in Berlin, and the flag being displayed isn't the flag of the Kingdom of Greece (the one with the sole cross with a crown in the middle), but the current flag (stripes and Hellenic cross in its canton). So I am confused about the actual Greek flag during 1936. Thoughts? --Pinnecco (talk) 16:57, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

 * The current Greek flag was always the co-national flag alongside the plain cross "land" version. It was defined in some old books I have as a "sea flag" and as a "flag for abroad", while the "land" flag was used mostly inside Greece (where the "sea" flag was also very popular, however). Constantine  ✍  17:02, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

 * Furthering the topic of Greek flag usage in Olympics, I also noticed that Greece used the current flag (🇬🇷) at the 1976 Winter Olympics, but the simple cross flag (🇬🇷) at the 1976 Summer Olympics a few months later. However, the Wikipedia articles about those two events and Greece's performance in those events both use the simple cross flag (🇬🇷). Why is that? —    A ndreyyshore    T    C    15:04, 26 Oct 2017 (UTC)

Presidential standard
I doubt the presidential standard was adopted in 1975, since the 1978 law clearly states that the Presidential standard is to be determined. Unfortunately, I have not managed to find any law that specifies the presidential standard. Dimboukas (talk) 00:56, 9 February 2012 (UTC)

Grecoeuropean Union Flag
http://s22.postimg.org/7orzv270h/Flag_of_Greece_4.png — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.84.216.225 (talk) 01:50, 8 July 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Dubious claim in the lead
The lead currently states that "Blue and white have many interpretations, symbolising the colours of the famed Greek sky and sea (combined with the white clouds and waves), traditional colours of Greek clothes in the islands and the mainland, etc." The "Greek islands" part is dubious and unsourced. At least two Greek sources say that the Aegean islands' houses were not painted blue and white before the 1938–1974 period. In other words, the statement in the lead is anachronistic and misleading; it suggests that the flag was patterned after the colors of the Aegean islands' houses, while in fact reliable sources indicate that the colors of the Aegean islands' houses were partially influenced by the colors of the Greek flag. --Omnipaedista (talk) 19:11, 13 July 2017 (UTC)

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For the issue of white and blue colors.
Blue is the opposite of red. Specifically cyan blue  As such its shows the antiottoman feeling. Ottoman flag is red in this period. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RGB_color_model#/media/File:Color_wheel_circle.png — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:587:9813:8800:28D9:426E:934C:5B4C (talk) 20:18, 20 October 2020 (UTC)

Sea flag
The article mentions "the sea flag" several times, but never defines which of the many flags is this sea flag. --Lambiam 20:32, 28 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Flag of Greece


text:
George Payne Rainsford James

George Payne Rainsford James (9 August 1799 – 9 June 1860), was an English novelist and historical writer, the son of a physician in London. He was for many years British Consul at various places in the United States and on the Continent. He held the honorary office of British Historiographer Royal during the last years of William IV's reign.

Early life
George Payne Rainsford James was born in St George Street, Hanover Square, London in 1799. His father was a physician who had served in the navy and was in America during the Revolutionary War, serving with Benedict Arnold in the Battle of Groton Heights.

James attended the school of the Reverend William Carmalt in Putney. He developed a love of languages, including Greek, Latin, Persian and Arabic. He also studied medicine as a young man, but his inclinations led him in a different direction. He wanted to go into the navy, but his father was against it, due to his own naval experiences, finally allowing him to join the army. James served for a short time in the army as a lieutenant during the Hundred Days, and was wounded in a small action following The Battle of Waterloo. He travelled extensively, visiting France and Spain soon after the abdication of Napoleon. These early travels gave him the idea for his novel Morley Ernstein.

Career
In 1825 he wrote his first, and probably his best known novel Richelieu: A Tale of France, which was not published until 1829. After reading Richelieu, which had been given to him by a friend, and after receiving a letter from James, Walter Scott advised him to take up literature as a profession. He was also given encouragement by Washington Irving.

In 1828 he married Frances Thomas, the daughter of Honoratus Leigh Thomas, an important physician. After their marriage they lived in France, Italy, and Scotland. They had two children, including C. L. James. His wife survived him by 31 years, dying in Wisconsin in 1891.

He was appointed Historiographer Royal during the last years of William IV's reign, and published several official pamphlets. During this period he lived with his wife at Oxford Cottage in Marlow.

In 1842 he lived at Walmer and was frequently a guest of the Duke of Wellington at Walmer Castle. In 1845 he went to Germany, partly for recreation and partly to gather material for his writings. On his return to England he lived for some time in Farnham, Surrey.

In July 1850 he left England and travelled to New York, where he rented Charles Astor Bristed's house at Hell Gate. In 1851 he took a house at Stockbridge, Massachusetts, where he later bought property and made some efforts at farming. In 1852 he was appointed British Consul at Norfolk, Virginia. In 1856 the Consulate was moved to Richmond. His novels Ticonderoga and The Old Dominion, written at this time, were set in the United States. In 1858 he was transferred to Venice, Italy, partly due to failing health, where he was appointed Consul General. In April 1860, he became seriously ill. He died in June 1860 from a stroke. He was buried in the cemetery at Isola di San Michele. The epitaph on his grave stone was written by his friend Walter Savage Landor. The epitaph reads:"'George Payne Rainsford James. British Consul General in the Adriatic. Died in Venice on the 9th day of June, 1860. His merits as a writer are known wherever the English language is, and as a man they rest on the hearts of many. A few friends have erected this humble and perishable monument.'"

Works
At an early age he began to write romances, and continued his production with such industry that his works reach to 100 volumes. For 30 years hardly a year went by that he failed to turn out at least one novel, and usually two or more, most of them "three-deckers" (three-volume). Describing himself as a follower of Sir Walter Scott, he may have produced more sheer verbiage than his mentor, chiefly historical fiction (61 titles in 158 volumes). This excessive production was fatal to his permanent reputation; but his books had considerable immediate popularity. Their titles are:

Novels:
 * Adra, or The Peruvians (1829)
 * Richelieu: A Tale of France (3 volumes, 1829)
 * Darnley, or, The Field of the Cloth of Gold (3 volumes, 1830)
 * De l'Orme (3 volumes, 1830)
 * Philip Augustus, or The Brothers in Arms (3 volumes, 1831)
 * Bertrand de la Croix, or The Siege of Rhodes (series 1831, book 1841)
 * Henry Masterton, or The Adventures of a Young Cavalier (3 volumes, 1832)
 * The String of Pearls (2 volumes, 1832)
 * Delaware, or The Ruined Family (3 volumes, 1833)
 * Mary of Burgundy, or The Revolt of Ghent (3 volumes, 1833)
 * The Life and Adventures of John Marston Hall (3 volumes, 1834)
 * The Gipsy (3 volumes, 1835)
 * One in a Thousand; or, the Days of Henry Quatre (3 volumes, 1835)
 * The Desultory Man (3 volumes, 1836)
 * Attila (3 volumes, 1837), novel about Attila the Hun.
 * The Robber (3 volumes, 1838)
 * Henry of Guise, or The States of Blois (3 volumes, 1839)
 * The Huguenot: A Tale of the French Protestants (3 volumes, 1839)
 * Charles Tyrell, or The Bitter Blood (1839)
 * The Gentleman of the Old School (3 volumes, 1839)
 * The King's Highway (3 volumes, 1840)
 * The Man at Arms, or Henri de Cerons (1840)
 * Corse de Leon, or The Brigand (3 volumes, 1841), novel set in 16th Century France.
 * The Ancient Regime (3 volumes, 1841)
 * The Jacquerie, or The Lady and the Page (3 volumes, 1841)
 * Morley Ernstein, or The Tenants of the Heart (3 volumes, 1842)
 * The Commissioner, or De Lunatico Inquirendo (anon., 1843)
 * Forest Days (3 volumes, 1843)
 * The False Heir (3 volumes, 1843)
 * Eva St. Clair and Other Collected Tales (2 volumes, 1843)
 * Agincourt (3 volumes, 1844)
 * Arabella Stuart (3 volumes, 1844)
 * Rose d'Albret, or Troublous Times (3 volumes, 1844)
 * Arrah Neil, or Times of Old (3 volumes, 1845)
 * The Smuggler (3 volumes, 1845)
 * Beauchamp, or The Error (ser. 1845-6; 3 volumes, 1848)
 * The Stepmother, or Evil Doings (privately, 1845)
 * Heidelberg (3 volumes, 1846)
 * The Castle of Ehrenstein (3 volumes, 1847), novel set in 13th Century Germany
 * A Whim and Its Consequences (3 volumes, 1847)
 * The Convict (3 volumes, 1847)
 * Russell: A Tale of the Reign of Charles II (3 volumes, 1847)
 * Margaret Graham (ser 1847; 2 volumes, 1848)
 * The Last of the Fairies (1848)
 * Sir Theodore Broughton, or Laurel Water (3 volumes, 1848)
 * Gowrie; or, the King's Plot (1848)
 * Thirty Years Since; or, the Ruined Family (1848)
 * The Forgery, or Best Intentions (3 volumes, 1849)
 * John Jones' Tales for Little John Joneses (2 volumes, 1849)
 * The Woodman: A Romance of the Times of Richard III (3 volumes, 1849)
 * The Old Oak Chest (3 volumes, 1850)
 * Henry Smeaton: A Jacobite Story of the Reign of George I (3 volumes, 1851)
 * The Fate (3 volumes, 1851)
 * Revenge (3 volumes, 1852)
 * Adrian, or The Clouds of the Mind (2 volumes, 1852) (with Maunsell Bradhurst Field)
 * Pequinille (3 volumes, 1852)
 * The Bride of Landeck (serial 1852, book 1878)
 * Agnes Sorrel (3 volumes, 1853)
 * The Vicissitudes of a Life (3 volumes, 1853)
 * Ticonderoga, or The Black Eagle (3 volumes, 1854)
 * Prince Life (1856)
 * The Old Dominion, or The Southampton Massacre (3 volumes, 1856)
 * Leonora d'Orco (3 volumes, 1857)
 * Lord Montagu's Page (3 volumes, 1858)
 * The Cavalier (1859)

Historical works:
 * The History of Chivalry (1830)
 * Memoirs of Great Commanders (3 volumes, 1832)
 * The History of Charlemagne (1832)
 * A History of the Life of Edward the Black Prince (2 volumes, 1836)
 * Memoirs of Celebrated Women (ed. by, 1837)
 * The Life and Times of Louis XIV (4 volumes, 1838)
 * Dark Scenes of History (3 volumes, 1849)

Other:
 * The Ruined City (poetry, privately, 1828)
 * Blanche of Navarre (play, 1839)
 * Camaralzaman (fairy drama, 1848)
 * A Book of the Passions (1852)

title: George Payne Rainsford James


text:
Wikipedia:U.S. Wikipedians' notice board/to do

{| valign=top
 * colspan="3"|

Featured article candidates
Total pages in content type is 10
 * Fountain Fire
 * Hurricane Hilary
 * Benjamin Jackson (sailor)
 * MLS Cup 2022
 * Narragansett Pier Railroad
 * Perry County, Tennessee
 * Starship Troopers (film)
 * Texas Centennial half dollar
 * Battle of Tinian
 * Jozo Tomasevich

Featured list candidates
Total pages in content type is 6
 * List of Brooklyn Nine-Nine episodes
 * List of Seattle Kraken draft picks
 * List of Seattle Reign FC seasons
 * List of inventoried conifers in the United States
 * United States congressional delegations from Arizona
 * United States congressional delegations from Idaho

Good article nominees
Total pages in content type is 75
 * 18th century glassmaking in the United States
 * 1864 Washington Arsenal explosion
 * 1997 Jarrell tornado
 * 2008 North American SuperLiga final
 * 2020–2022 catalytic converter theft ring
 * 2024 Sugar Bowl
 * The Americans
 * Ken Anderson (animator)
 * Arleta Library Bakery & Cafe
 * Pete Astudillo
 * The Asylum
 * Bothell, Washington
 * Cookie Brinkman
 * Cable Car Cinema
 * Chapel Hart
 * Charlotte Motor Speedway
 * Conestoga wagon
 * Ann Washington Craton
 * Jayden Daniels
 * Darlington Memorial Fountain
 * Disappearance of Joshua Guimond
 * FTC v. Microsoft
 * Federalist No. 9
 * Flaming Creatures
 * Paul George
 * Bob Gibson
 * Grande Ronde River
 * Pétur Guðmundsson (basketball)
 * Henry Donch
 * Henry Higgins Boiled Bagels
 * Laurie Hernandez
 * Inland Steel Company
 * Interstate 40 in North Carolina
 * Israel–Morocco normalization agreement
 * Jews in the civil rights movement
 * W. Seavey Joyce
 * King Manor
 * Madison Kocian
 * KOLD-TV
 * KXXV
 * KZJO
 * Legends of Tomorrow season 3
 * Battle of Lewisburg
 * The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power season 1
 * John S. McCain Sr.
 * McKinney Roughs Nature Park
 * Robert L. McLeod
 * Robert J. McMullen
 * MidCity SmashedBurger
 * New England Revolution in international competition
 * Marie Osmond
 * Parental rights movement
 * Riley Gale
 * Rocket Lab
 * Rogue One
 * Roswell incident
 * Seattle Kraken
 * Sentient (intelligence analysis system)
 * Shanthi Kalathil
 * Dick Simpson (politician)
 * Sleeping Beauty (1959 film)
 * Steward Health Care System
 * Lalita Tademy
 * Breonna Taylor
 * Texas and Pacific 610
 * Melania Trump
 * Charles J. Turck
 * United States' Telegraph
 * WNAC-TV
 * Taylor Ward
 * WNWO-TV
 * Andrew T. Wood
 * WOSU-TV
 * WSJV
 * R/The Donald

To create
 * valign=top|
 * valign=top|
 * Missing articles
 * Requested articles
 * U.S. Representatives listed here.

To discuss on Articles for deletion

 * See: Deletion sorting/United States of America for the current list.

To expand
 * American Old West
 * Confederate States Army

To destub

 * valign=top |

Assessment requests
 * Requests for assessment

New articles
 * National • State A-F • State G-L • State M-N • State O-Z

Most Popular pages
 * Popular pages

To find images

 * valign=top |

Maintenance and cleanup
 * Unreferenced BLP's
 * Needing cleanup

Other issues
 * Portal:United States - Needs to be updated and expanded
 * Modern Census - Update articles using old 2000 and 2010 census data to use the most recent 2020 data
 * }


text:
Jodhi May

Jodhi May (née Jodhi Hakim-Edwards) (born 8 May 1975) is an English actress. Starting her career as a child actress, she is the youngest recipient (age 12) of the Best Actress Award at the Cannes Film Festival, for A World Apart (1988).

Her other credits include The Last of the Mohicans (1992), Sister My Sister (1994), Aristocrats (1999), Tipping the Velvet (2002), the television adaptation of The Other Boleyn Girl (2003), The Amazing Mrs Pritchard (2006), The Jury II and I, Anna (2011), A Quiet Passion (2016), Genius (2017), Moving On (2018), Gentleman Jack (2019), The Warrior Queen of Jhansi (2019), and The Witcher (2019).

Early life
May was born in Camden Town, London, England. Her mother, French-Turkish Jocelyn Hakim, had been previously briefly married to the fashion designer and music manager Malcolm McLaren, who at the time was using the name "Malcolm Edwards"; after their divorce and her subsequent relationship with a German man ("May's German father, and her continued lack of contact with him, is a subject she won't broach"), Jocelyn gave the name she had adopted- Hakim-Edwards- to her daughter Jodhi. She was educated at Camden School for Girls.

She started her acting career at 12 years old, and later studied English at Wadham College, Oxford.

Career
May first acted at the age of 12, in A World Apart (1988). For the role she received a Best Actress award at the 1988 Cannes Film Festival, shared with her co-stars Barbara Hershey and Linda Mvusi.

Other roles have included Alice Munro in Michael Mann's The Last of the Mohicans, Lea Papin in Sister My Sister, Lady Sarah Lennox in Aristocrats, Florence Banner in Tipping the Velvet. Anne Boleyn in the first adaptation of The Other Boleyn Girl (2003). May played Janet Stone in the 2011 noir thriller I, Anna, alongside Gabriel Byrne, Charlotte Rampling, Eddie Marsan, and Honor Blackman.

In 2018, as a writer, she contributed and appeared in the TV series Moving On. In 2019, she played Queen Calanthe in The Witcher, Netflix's live-action adaptation of Andrzej Sapkowski's popular book series.

In 2020, alongside Valentina Cervi, Francesco Scianna, Filippo Timi, she was in the cast of Marco Simon Puccioni's film The Invisible Thread, produced by Netflix, released in 2022.

title: Jodhi May


text:
Category:Pittsburgh Rebels players

This is the list of players for the Pittsburgh Rebels, a baseball club which played between 1914 and 1915 in the Federal League.

title: Category:Pittsburgh Rebels players


text:
Spurgeon

Spurgeon may refer to:

United States

 * Spurgeon, Indiana, a town
 * Spurgeon, Missouri, an unincorporated community
 * Spurgeon, Tennessee, a census-designated place
 * Spurgeon Creek, Washington

Australia

 * Spurgeon, Queensland, a locality

People with the given name

 * Spud Chandler (1907–1990), American Major League Baseball pitcher
 * Spurgeon Cherry (c. 1912–1968), American college football and basketball player and basketball coach
 * Spurgeon Neel (1919–2003), U.S. Army physician
 * Spurgeon Tucker (1894–1968), American painter and lithographer

People with the surname

 * Adelaide Thompson Spurgeon (c1826–1907), American Civil War nurse
 * Caroline Spurgeon (1869–1942), English literary critic
 * Charles Spurgeon (1834–1892), British Baptist preacher
 * Dennis Spurgeon (born 1943), American nuclear engineer
 * Freddy Spurgeon (1900–1970), American baseball player
 * Jared Spurgeon (born 1989), Canadian ice hockey player
 * Jay Spurgeon (born 1976), American baseball player
 * Keith Spurgeon (1933–1990), English football player and manager
 * Sarah Spurgeon (born 1963), English electrical engineer
 * Thomas Spurgeon (1856–1917), son of Charles Spurgeon; also a British Baptist preacher
 * Tim Spurgeon (born 1960), American racing driver
 * Tom Spurgeon (1968–2019), American comic critic
 * Tyler Spurgeon (born 1986), Canadian ice hockey player
 * William H. Spurgeon (1829–1915), founder of Santa Ana, California

Other uses

 * Spurgeons, an English charity founded by Charles Spurgeon
 * Spurgeon's College, London, founded by Charles Spurgeon

title: Spurgeon


text:
User:Pamanakara

Welcome
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:
 * How to edit a page
 * Editing tutorial
 * Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this:. Four tildes ( ~ ) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! - Nat Krause 16:03, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: User:Pamanakara


text:
Piemont

Piemont may refer to:

 * Piemont or Piedmont, a region of Italy
 * Piemont-Liguria Ocean, a former piece of oceanic crust that is seen as part of the Tethys Ocean
 * Nicolaas Piemont(1644–1709), Dutch Golden Age landscape painter

title: Piemont


text:
Old State House

Old State House or Old Statehouse may refer to:

 * Old Colony House, Newport, Rhode Island, also known as Old State House
 * Old State Capitol (Kentucky), also called Old Statehouse
 * Old State House (Boston), Massachusetts
 * Old State House (Connecticut)
 * Old State House (Little Rock, Arkansas)
 * Old State House (Providence, Rhode Island)
 * Old Statehouse (Dover, Delaware), listed on the National Register of Historic Places in Kent County, Delaware
 * One of 5 former capitol buildings of Illinois, including:
 * Old State Capitol State Historic Site (Illinois), Springfield – fifth Illinois state capitol
 * Vandalia State House State Historic Site – fourth Illinois state capitol

title: Old State House


text:
Joseph de Tonquedec

Joseph de Tonquédec, S.J. (December 27, 1868 – November 21, 1962) was a widely known Jesuit Roman Catholic priest and author.

Father Tonquédec was born in Morlaix, France on December 27, 1868. He received his doctorate in philosophy in 1899 and his doctorate in theology in 1905. He was the professor of philosophy at Collège St. Grégoire, Tours, from 1899 to 1901. He was the official exorcist of Paris from 1924 to 1962. Father Gabriele Amorth, in his 1994 memoir An Exorcist Tells His Story, cites Father de Tonquédec, referring to him as a "famous French exorcist."

Father de Tonquédec was an intellectual adversary of the French philosopher Maurice Blondel. His writings on theology, philosophy, and literature have been translated into languages including Italian, Spanish, Latin, and English; see, for example, his "Some Aspects of Satan's Activity in this World."

Tonquédec died on November 21, 1962, in France.

Select Bibliography

 * G. K. Chesterton, ses idées et son caractère. Paris: Nouvelle Librairie nationale, 1920.
 * Deux études sur "La Pensée" de M. Maurice Blondel. La doctrine de la connaissance. La question du surnaturel. Avec un appendice sur le désir naturel de la vision de Dieu. Paris: Éditions Beauchesne, 1936. Reprinted as ISBN 9782701004549.
 * Introduction à l'étude du merveilleux et du miracle. Paris: Éditions Beauchesne, 1938 (3e édition). Reprinted 2013; ISBN 9782701019871.
 * Les maladies nerveuses ou mentales et les manifestations diaboliques. Paris: Éditions Beauchesne, 1938. Reprinted 1997; ISBN 9782701004556.

title: Joseph de Tonquedec


text:
User talk:Barce

Spinoza's Coat VfD
Hey Barce, Please check up on the discussion on Votes for deletion/Spinoza's Coat. Thanks! --Improv 16:06, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Poetics
Hi Barce,

I just left some talk on the poetics page you started--I want to know if there are objections to my renaming the page "Aristotle's Poetics" or variant. I want to start a "poetics" entry and it seems to me that "Aristotle's Poetics" / "Poetics" is a more sensible arrangement than "Poetics" / "Poetics (branch of knowledge)." A compromise might be "Poetics (Aristotle) / Poetics (Theory)," but I don't think this is quite right, since the Poetics is the founding subset of poetics. What do you think? Cyrusc 01:24, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

Hi again,

I redirected your poetics link on your user page so that it points to the article you started. I hope this is all right--I felt a little funny changing your user page, but I felt funnier leaving the link there when it redirected to the wrong article. See Talk:Poetics (Aristotle)

Best,

Cyrus

Problems with upload of Image:Dogster logo.gif
Thanks for uploading Image:Dogster logo.gif. You don't seem to have said where the image came from, who created it, or what the copyright status is. We require this information to verify that the image is legally usable on Wikipedia, and because most image licenses require giving credit to the image's creator.

To add this information, click on this link, then click "Edit this page" and add the information to the image's description. If you need help, post your question on Media copyright questions.

For more information on using images, see the following pages:
 * Image use policy
 * Image copyright tags

Thank you for your cooperation. --ImageTaggingBot (talk) 23:08, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Technoromanticism (disambiguation)

The article Technoromanticism (disambiguation) has been proposed for deletion  because of the following concern:
 * disambiguation page not needed - hatnote on Technoromanticism does the job

While all contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, content or articles may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the  notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the article to address the issues raised. Removing  will stop the Proposed Deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. The Speedy Deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and Articles for Deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. PamD (talk) 07:47, 17 August 2009 (UTC)

Vikings
Hi there.

About your recent edit here on the page Vikings. You can read more about Danevirke and the year of 1864 on the page about this defence structure. The article wiki-links to this topic. Anyway a good source in English would be great, and I could not even find that on the Danevirke page or the Evacuation of Dannevirke in 1864 even. That is pretty bad. I hope I can dig something up in the near future and you are welcome too :-) RhinoMind (talk) 22:51, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

title: User talk:Barce


text:
User:Frieda/sandbox

Marianna Santoni (1978) is an Italian photographer and an Adobe Photoshop Guru.

Honors & awards

 * 2004: she became officially an Adobe Guru (member of the restricted official group)
 * 2005: Wacom Evangelist
 * 2006: "Best Adobe Guru 2006" for her commitment in research and evangelism about Adobe Photoshop and Adobe Photoshop Lightroom (awarded by Adobe Italia)
 * 2007: Premio Pericle d’Oro as "Woman of the Year".
 * 2007: she joined X-Rite Coloratti

title: User:Frieda/sandbox


text:
User talk:Kickus~enwiki

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Welcome, newcomer!

Here are some useful tips to ease you into the Wikipedia experience:

 * First, take a look at the Wikipedia Tutorial, and perhaps dabble a bit in the test area.
 * When you have some free time, take a look at the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines. They can come in very handy!
 * Remember to use a neutral point of view!
 * If you need any help, feel free to post a question at the Help Desk
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Also, here are some odds and ends that I find useful from time to time:

 * Policy Library
 * Utilities
 * Cite your sources
 * Verifiability
 * Wikiquette
 * Civility
 * Conflict resolution
 * Brilliant prose
 * Pages needing attention
 * Peer review
 * Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense
 * Village pump
 * Boilerplate text

Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can most easily reach me by posting on my talk page.

You can sign your name on any page by typing 4 tildes, likes this: ~~~~.

Best of luck, and have fun!

ClockworkTroll 16:07, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Kickus. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Kickus~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

Your account will still work as before, and you will be credited for all your edits made so far, but you will have to use the new account name when you log in.

Sorry for the inconvenience.

Yours, Keegan Peterzell Community Liaison, Wikimedia Foundation 01:08, 20 March 2015 (UTC)

Renamed
 This account has been renamed as part of single-user login finalisation. If you own this account you can |log in using your previous username and password for more information. If you do not like this account's new name, you can choose your own using this form after logging in: . -- Keegan (WMF) (talk) 14:58, 22 April 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Kickus~enwiki


text:
Wikipedia:WikiProject United States/Collaboration

This is the page to deal with discussion and nominations for the U.S. Collaboration of the Month (USCOTM), previously U.S. Collaboration of the Week (USCOTW). The USCOTM is a collaborative effort led by participants to improve different United States articles. In its initial incarnation (as USCOTW) from November 2005 until mid 2006, articles were selected every two weeks. From September 2006 until August 2007, articles were chosen on a more sporadic basis (around monthly) and saw a lot lower level of activity. The Collaboration became inactive at that time. As of January 2011, the Collaboration has been reactivated for a trial (after a slew of editors joined the wikiproject), to see if some articles might be improved collaboratively to good article or featured article level.

The idea is that new editors might work alongside more experienced editors and the overall coordination might result in some high profile or large articles being worked up that might have proven too arduous for one editor.

As of now, three previous collaborations, Washington, D.C., Statue of Liberty, Music of the United States are featured articles, while History of New Jersey, and Mount Rushmore were promoted and subsequently delisted. Three additional articles have received good article status, but have since been delisted; of these, one (George Washington) was again a collaboration and become a Good Article again.

Nominations
The next USCOTM will be picked on September 1st 2011, by the highest number of votes. The current time is, July 29, 2024.

Nominated articles remain active here as long as they continue to gain support, after which time they are archived. Failed nominations can be renominated any time. (Archived nominations) Past improvements and the results can be seen at WikiProject United States/Collaboration/History.

In the event of a tie between two or more nominations, the nomination made first will be used.

How to nominate
{|
 * width="60%" style="padding:1em 1em 1em 1em; border:10px solid #FFB6C1; background-color:#FFFFFF" valign="top"|
 * 1) Select the United States-related topic that needs work and improvement. Generally, articles that would affect a greater range of editors are recommended over articles with a more regional focus. The article can be nonexistent, a stub, or a good article aiming for featured status. Articles that are ineligible for USCOTM include:
 * 2) *An article that is already featured (note that articles that have been FARCed can still be nominated)
 * 3) *An article that is the subject of content edit wars
 * 4) Add   to the top of the talk page of the article.
 * 5) Edit this page, and list the nomination at the bottom of the list of nominations, using the following template: Please replace "article name" with the actual name of the article, replace "Date in 1 month" with the actual date in 1 month, and add a rationale for the reason for the nomination.
 * 6) Please preview the change using the "Show preview" button to double check that all of the required information has been filled in and ensure that no mistakes were accidentally made.

yields in:

Example (1 vote, stays until July 4)

 * Nominated 15:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC) ; needs 2 votes by July 4 (minimum 3 votes per month)

Support: Comments:
 * 1) TheNominator 15:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe Example should become the new USCOTM because it is an article that is important for many Americans. It could use some work in referencing and expansion. TheNominator 15:54, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
 * }

Participation
Consider joining the U.S. collaborative efforts by signing in the participants list below with * ,which will generate your name. User USCOTM is an userbox that may be placed on user pages.

Instructions for updating

 * 1) Locate the article with the most votes; in a tie, keep open for 24-48 hours for tiebreaker to find the new USCOTM.
 * 2) Adjust WP:WikiProject United States/COTM/current to the current USCOTM (keep the wikilink).
 * 3) Add  to the new one. The old one should have the template left on, as it will automatically indicate it is no longer under the focus of the drive.
 * 4) Correct the new changing date located above at Nominations. Cut and paste the above nomination and move it to WP:USCOTWN
 * 5) Update the information on WP:USCOTWHIST, adding the information about the last USCOTM and the date, # of votes, article name, and # of words onto the top of the wikitable.

Participants
Participants help out on the current USCOTM, nominate new articles, vote, and provide comments.

 * - just helping out for a bit to get it off the ground :)
 * - just helping out for a bit to get it off the ground :)
 * - just helping out for a bit to get it off the ground :)

Templates

 * WP:WikiProject United States/COTM - to announce the topic
 * WP:WikiProject United States/COTM/current - the name of the current USCOTM
 * WP:WikiProject United States/COTM/month - the month and year of the current USCOTM
 * USnom - to be placed in the talk page of the nominated articles
 * UScur - placed on collaboration articles
 * USvot - to be placed on voters talk page
 * User USCOTM - an userbox for placement on user pages for users who frequently participate in USCOTM


text:
User talk:Zik-Zak

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Welcome, newcomer!

Here are some useful tips to ease you into the Wikipedia experience:

 * First, take a look at the Wikipedia Tutorial, and perhaps dabble a bit in the test area.
 * When you have some free time, take a look at the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines. They can come in very handy!
 * Remember to use a neutral point of view!
 * If you need any help, feel free to post a question at the Help Desk
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Also, here are some odds and ends that I find useful from time to time:

 * Policy Library
 * Utilities
 * Cite your sources
 * Verifiability
 * Wikiquette
 * Civility
 * Conflict resolution
 * Brilliant prose
 * Pages needing attention
 * Peer review
 * Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense
 * Village pump
 * Boilerplate text

Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can most easily reach me by posting on my talk page.

You can sign your name on any page by typing 4 tildes, likes this: ~~~~.

Best of luck, and have fun!

ClockworkTroll 16:08, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Tabatha and friends
You've gotta write about what you love... :) —tregoweth 23:35, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

The Humungous Image Tagging Project
Hi. You've helped with the WikiProject Wiki Syntax, so I thought it worth alerting you to the latest and greatest of Wikipedia fixing project, User:Yann/Untagged Images, which is seeking to put copyright tags on all of the untagged images. There are probably, oh, thirty thousand or so to do (he said, reaching into the air for a large figure). But hey: they're images ... you'll get to see lots of random pretty pictures. That must be better than looking for at at and the the, non? You know you'll love it. best wishes --Tagishsimon (talk)

title: User talk:Zik-Zak


text:
User talk:FaustX

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Welcome, newcomer!

Here are some useful tips to ease you into the Wikipedia experience:

 * First, take a look at the Wikipedia Tutorial, and perhaps dabble a bit in the test area.
 * When you have some free time, take a look at the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines. They can come in very handy!
 * Remember to use a neutral point of view!
 * If you need any help, feel free to post a question at the Help Desk
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Also, here are some odds and ends that I find useful from time to time:

 * Policy Library
 * Utilities
 * Cite your sources
 * Verifiability
 * Wikiquette
 * Civility
 * Conflict resolution
 * Brilliant prose
 * Pages needing attention
 * Peer review
 * Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense
 * Village pump
 * Boilerplate text

Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can most easily reach me by posting on my talk page.

You can sign your name on any page by typing 4 tildes, likes this: ~~~~.

Best of luck, and have fun!

ClockworkTroll 16:08, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hi, Does Tim Conway really live in Gallatin,TN?

Sorry, what exactly are you referring to? The first written reference to Al-Saud's clan being from Bani Hanifa comes from a 17th century manuscript written by Jabr Ibn Sayyar Al-Khaldi, the emir of Al-Gessab, if that's what you're wondering about. It's also the view of Hamad Al-Jassir who was the most credible scholar in this field. This does nothing to tie Al Saud further to monotheism because Bani Hanifa are not reported to have been monotheists before Islam. In fact many anti-Wahhabi polemics emphasized the "Bani Hanifa connection" in order to tie Al Saud with "Musaylima the Liar". Slackerlawstudent 10:05, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:FaustX