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Game balance

Game balance is a branch of game design with the intention of improving gameplay and user experience by balancing difficulty and fairness. Game balance consists of adjusting rewards, challenges, and/or elements of a game to create the intended player experience.

Overview and development
Game balance is generally understood as introducing a level of fairness for the players. This includes adjusting difficulty, win-loss conditions, game states, economy balancing, and so on to work in tandem with each other. The concept of game balance depends on the game genre. Most game designers agree that game balancing serves towards providing an engaging player experience, especially through a meta.

Game balance is commonly discussed among game designers, some of whom include Ernest Adams, Jeannie Novak, Ian Schreiber, David Sirlin, and Jesse Schell. The topic is also featured in many YouTube channels specializing in game design topics, including Extra Credits, GMTK and Adam Millard.

PvP, PvE and Co-Op Games
Player versus player (PvP) describes games that feature a competition between players. PvE is an acronym for player versus environment, where players instead compete with the environment and non-player characters (NPCs).

Co-op is short for "cooperative" and refers to PvE and PvP games where you can work with other players.

Game elements
Game elements are things that appear within a video game that contribute to the gameplay experience. In most game design frameworks, game elements are categorized into groups to help describe their roles in the games. A game element refers to anything ranging from a player's special ability to the relations between different game mechanics in a game.

Game mechanics
Game mechanics are constructs that let the player interact with the game world. They define the goal, how players can achieve them and how they cannot, and what happens when they try. These would include challenges, competitive or cooperative gameplay, win-loss conditions and states, feedback loops, and how they relate to one another. Like game balance, the terminology behind game mechanics can vary depending on the designer or the resource's author.

Buffs and nerfs
Buffs are changes to a game which increase the utility of game elements, items, environments, mechanics and so on, while nerfs are changes that decrease the utility of said game elements and alike. Buffs and nerfs are common methods for adjusting the challenge for the player. Both can be achieved indirectly by changing other elements and mechanics or introducing new ones. Both terms can also be used as verbs for the act of making such a change. The first established use of the term "nerf" was in Ultima Online, as a reference to the Nerf brand of toys due to their soft toy bullets. However, there is no concrete evidence to show where the term "buff" came from. It has been perceived that the term came from bodybuilding culture, where it is a slang term which refers to an individual's large musculature as a result of strength-based exercises.

The most popular use of these terms is found in most MMORPGs, where game designers use buffs and nerfs to maintain game balance shortly after introducing a new feature that may cause significant changes to the game's mechanics. This is sometimes due to a method of using or acquiring the object that was not considered by the developers. The frequency and scale of nerfing vary widely from game to game, but almost all MMOs have engaged in nerfing at some point.

Nerfs in various online games, such as Anarchy Online, have spurred in-world protests. Since many items in virtual worlds are sold or traded among players, a nerf may have an outsized impact on the virtual economy. As players respond, the nerf may cause prices to fluctuate before settling down in a different equilibrium. This impact on the economy, along with the original impact of the nerf, can cause large player resentment for even a small change. In particular, in the case of items or abilities which have been nerfed, players can become upset over the perceived wasted efforts in obtaining the now nerfed features. For games where avatars and items represent significant economic value, this may bring up legal issues over the lost value.

Overpowered and underpowered
The terms “overpowered” (OP) and “underpowered” (UP) are used on game elements and mechanics that are too good or bad to describe a lack of game balance. More precisely, if a game element is too strong even with the lowest possible cost, it is overpowered. If it is too weak even with the highest possible cost, it is underpowered. On the other hand, a game element might simply be too expensive or not expensive enough for the benefit it provides.

Colloquially, overpowered is often used when describing a specific class in an RPG, a specific faction in strategic games, or a specific tactic, ability, weapon or unit in various games. For something to be deemed overpowered, it is either the best choice in a disproportionate number of situations (marginalizing other choices) and/or excessively hard to counter by the opponent compared to the effort required to use it.

Underpowered often refers to when describing a specific class in an RPG, a specific faction in strategic games, or a specific tactic, ability, weapon or unit in various games as far weaker than average, resulting in it being always one of the worst options to pick in most situations. In such way, it is often marginalized by other choices because it's inherently weaker than similar options or it's much more easily countered by opponents.

Gimp
A gimp is a character, character class or character ability that is underpowered in the context of the game (e.g. a close range warrior class equipping a full healing boosting armor set, despite having no healing abilities). Gimped characters lack effectiveness compared to other characters at a similar level of experience. A player may gimp a character by assigning skills and abilities that are inappropriate for the character class, or by developing the character inefficiently. However, this is not always the case, as some characters are purposely "gimped" by the game's developers in order to provide an incentive for raising their level, or to give the player an early head-start. An example of this is Final Fantasy Mystic Knight class, which starts out weak, but is able to become the most powerful class if brought to a very high level. Gimps may also be accidental on the part of the developer, and may require a software patch to balance.

Sometimes, especially in MMORPGs, gimp is used as a synonym for nerf to describe a rule modification that weakens the affected target. Unlike the connotatively neutral term nerf, gimp in this usage often implies that the rule change unfairly disadvantages the target.

Revamp
A revamp (or rework) is a significant change to a game that is designed to improve (or balance out) the game's overall quality. This can include changes to the game's mechanics, art style, storyline, or any other aspect of the game. Revamps are often done in response to player feedback or to address problems that have been identified with the game. They can also be done simply to refresh the game and keep it feeling fresh for players.

Revamps can happen at any time during a game's development or after its release. The difference between a revamp and a remaster is that a remaster is simply an updated version of the game with better graphics and maybe some new content, while a revamp is a completely new game built on the foundation of the original.

Revamps may be optional and may happen if something is not properly nerfed.

Chance
While the optimal ratio between skill and chance are dependent on the target group, the outcome should be more influenced by skill. Chance and skill are viewed as partial opposites. Chance allows a weaker player to beat a stronger one. Generally, it is advised to favor many small random elements with little influence over a few with large effects to make results, that differ highly from average, less likely. The player should also receive a certain degree of information and control over random elements.

Difficulty
Difficulty is especially important for PvE-games, but has at least some significance for PvP-games regarding the usability of game elements. The perception of the difficulty depends on mechanics and numbers, but also on the players abilities and expectations. The ideal difficulty therefore depends on individual player and should put the player in a state of flow. Consequently, for the development, it can be useful or even necessary to focus on a certain target group. Difficulty should increase throughout the game since players get better and usually unlock more power. Achieving all those goals is problematic since, among other things, skill cannot be measured objectively and testers also get continuously better. In any case, difficulty should be adjustable for or by the player in some way.

Dynamic and static balance
Game balance can be divided into a dynamic and a static component. Static balance is mostly concerned with a game's rules and elements, everything, that is set before a game or match starts. An example would be like player health and ammo left. Dynamic balance conversely describes the balance between players, environment and computer opponents and how it changes throughout the game. An example would be moving objects in a game environment

Economies
Within a game, everything that has an owner or is provided to a player can be called a resource. This includes commodities, units, tokens, but also information or time, for example. Those resource systems are similar to real economies, especially in regards to trading resources. There are some distinctions for video games though: There are open economies, that receive additional resources, but also closed ones that do not. Additionally, economies might provide indefinite resources, or all players have to share a set amount instead. Especially for online games, it therefore is important to design economies to make them “fun” and sustainable.

Fairness
A game is fair if all players have roughly the same chance of winning at the start independent of which offered options they choose. This makes fairness especially important for PvP games. Fairness also means, even for PvE games, that the player never feels like the opponents were unbeatable.

Early appearances of the term “fairness”
"Any good computer game must be totally fair. It must be possible for the player to reach the objective and win. This is not to say the game cannot be complicated or random or appear unfair."

"An important trait of any game is the illusion of winnability. If a game is to provide a continuing challenge to players, it must also provide a continuing motivation to play. The game must appear to be winnable to all players, beginners and experts, but it must never truly be winnable or it will lose its appeal."

"Dani Bunten was once asked how to play-balance a game. Her one word answer was 'Cheat.' Asked what to do if gamers complained, she said, 'Lie!'"

Chris Crawford wrote in 1982 of the importance of a game's "illusion of winnability"; Pac-Man is popular because it "appears winnable to most players, yet is never quite winnable". When defeated "the player must perceive", Computer Gaming World wrote in 1984, "that failure was the player's fault (not the game's) but can be corrected by playing better the next time". The illusion of winnability, Crawford said, "is very difficult to maintain. Some games maintain it for the expert but never achieve it for the beginner; these games intimidate all but the most determined players", citing Tempest as an example.

A fair game is winnable but, InfoWorld stated in 1981, can be "complicated or random or appear unfair". Fairness does not necessarily mean that a game is balanced. This is particularly true of action games: Jaime Griesemer, design lead at Bungie, states that "every fight in Halo is unfair". This potential for unfairness creates uncertainty, leading to the tension and excitement that action games seek to deliver. In these cases balancing is instead the management of unfair scenarios, with the ultimate goal of ensuring that all of the strategies which the game intends to support are viable. The extent to which those strategies are equal to one another defines the character of the game in question.

Simulation games can be balanced unfairly in order to be true to life. A wargame may cast the player into the role of a general who was defeated by an overwhelming force, and it is common for the abilities of teams in sports games to mirror those of the real-world teams they represent regardless of the implications for players who pick them.

Player perception can also affect the appearance of fairness. Sid Meier stated that he omitted multiplayer alliances in Civilization because he found that the computer was almost as good as humans in exploiting them, which caused players to think that the computer was cheating.

Meaningful decisions
Meaningful decisions are decisions whose alternatives are neither without any effect nor is one alternative clearly the best. This would make, for example, choosing between the numbers of a dice meaningless if 6 always gives the greatest benefit. This example is a dominant strategy, the most damaging type of meaningless decision, since it doesn't leave a reason to choose any alternative. Meaningful decisions consequently are a central part of the interactive medium games. Meaningless decisions, also called trivial decisions, do not add anything desirable to a game. They might actually harm the game by unnecessarily making it more complex. Additionally, a higher number of meaningful decisions can also make a game just more complex. Offered decisions should always be meaningful though. However, for the balancing irrelevant decisions might still influence the players experience, e.g. a decision between cosmetic alternatives like skins.

Strategies
Strategies are specific combinations of actions to achieve a certain goal. Classic examples for this are a rush or focusing on economy in a real-time strategy game. Not only elementary decisions within a strategy, e.g. between game elements, also the decision between strategies should remain meaningful.

Dominant strategies
A dominant strategy is a strategy that is always the most likely to lead to success, making it objectively the best strategy. This therefore renders all related decisions meaningless. Even if a strategy does not always win, but clearly is the best, it can be called (almost) dominant. Dominant strategies damage games and should strongly be avoided when possible. However, there is no objective border when a slightly better strategy becomes dominant.

Metagame
Metagame describes a game around the actual game, including discussions, like in forums, interactions between players, e.g. on local tournaments, but also the influence of extrinsic factors like finances. The “Meta”, as it is also called, can act as a self-balancing force, since counters to popular strategies become widely known and lead to players changing their play behavior appropriately. This self-balancing force should not prevent developers from intervening in extreme cases of imbalance though.

Positive and negative feedback
Positive and negative feedback, also called positive and negative feedback loop, essentially describes game mechanics that reward or punish playing (usually well or bad) with power or the loss of it. Therefore, success leads to more power within a positive loop and therefore accelerates progress further, while a negative loop decreases power or adds additional costs to it. Feedback loops should be implemented carefully to only target the correct player, or otherwise they might determine the outcome too early or achieve nothing but simply delay the end of the game.

Many games become more challenging if the player is successful. For instance, real-time strategy games often feature "upkeep", a resource tax that scales with the number of units under a player's control. Team games which challenge players to invade their opponents' territory (football, capture the flag) have a negative feedback loop by default: the further a player pushes, the more opponents they are likely to face.

Many games also feature positive feedback loops – where success (for example capturing an enemy territory) leads to greater resources or capabilities, and hence greater scope for further successes (for example further conquests or economic investments). The overall dynamic balance of the game will depend on the comparative strength of positive and negative feedback processes, and therefore decreasing the power of positive feedback processes has the same effect as introducing negative feedback processes. Positive feedback processes may be limited by making capabilities some concave function of a measure of raw success. For example:

 * 1) In RPG (role-playing games) using a level structure, the level attained is usually a concave transformation of experience points – as the character becomes more proficient, they can defeat more powerful adversaries, and hence can earn more experience points in a given period of playtime – but conversely more experience points are required to 'level up'. In this case, the players level and perhaps also power does not improve exponentially, but approximately linearly in playing time.
 * 2) In many military strategy games, the conquest of new territory only gives a marginal increase in power – for example the 'home province' may be exceptionally productive, whereas new territories open to acquisition might only have by comparison slight resources, or may be prone to revolts or public order penalties which reduce their ability to provide significant net resources, after resources are allocated to adequately suppressing revolts. In this case, a player with initially impressive successes may become 'overextended' attempting to hold may regions which provide only marginal increases in resources.
 * 3) In many games there is little or no advantage in acquiring a large horde of some particular item. For example, having a large and varied cache of equipment or weapons is an advantage, but only weakly over a somewhat smaller horde with a similar degree of diversity – for example only one weapon can be used at a time, and having another in an inventory with very similar capabilities offers only marginal gain. In more general terms, capabilities may depend on some bottleneck where there is no or only weak positive feedback.

Strongly net negative feedback loops can lead to frequent ties. Conversely, if there is on net a strong positive feedback loop, early successes can multiply very rapidly, leading to the player eventually attaining a commanding position from which losing is almost impossible. See also dynamic game difficulty balancing.

Power and costs
Power is everything that provides an advantage, while costs are essentially everything that is a disadvantage. Therefore, power and costs can be viewed as positive and negative values of the same scale. This allows calculations with both of them at the same time. Sometimes, it is only a matter of perspective if something is an advantage or a disadvantage: Is it a benefit to have bonus damage against dragons? Or is it a drawback not to receive it against other targets? A crucial part of game balancing consists in relating power and costs to each other and find a suitable relation in the first place, e.g. a power curve. In addition to that, costs might not be explicitly quantified: Spending gold on something from any finite amount limits future purchases. Also, certain investments might have prerequisites before they even become available. Sometimes, a game does not even show disadvantages. All of this can be referred to as shadow costs.

Rewards
Every player desires rewards, e.g. new game content or a simple compliment. Rewards should get bigger as the playtime increases. They give a player the feeling of doing something right and can enhance progress. A little bit of uncertainty about rewards makes them more desirable for many players.

Solvability
Colloquially speaking, solving a game refers to winning it or reaching its end. Ian Schreiber calls a game solvable if, for every situation, there is a recognizable best action. Generally, it is undesirable if a game can easily be solved, since this makes decisions meaningless, and games become boring faster.

There are multiple tiers of solvability: A game might be trivial to solve, but it might also be solvable only in theory with a lot of computing effort. Even games with random elements are solvable since a best action can be found using expected values. Besides high complexity, hidden information and the influence of other human players are what makes it impossible for a human to completely solve a game.

Symmetry and asymmetry
Symmetric games offer all players identical starting conditions and are therefore automatically fair in the above stated sense. While they are easier to balance, they still must be balanced, e.g. regarding their game elements. Most modern games are asymmetric though, while the grade of asymmetry can vary greatly. Fairness becomes even more important for those.

Giving each player identical resources is the simplest game balancing technique. Most competitive games feature some level of symmetry; some (such as Pong) are completely symmetric, but those in which players alternate turns (such as chess) can never achieve total symmetry as one player will always have a first-move advantage or disadvantage.

Symmetry is unappealing in games because both sides can and will use any effective strategy simultaneously, or success depends on a very small advantage such as one pawn in chess. An alternative is to offer symmetry with restrictions. Players in Wizard's Quest and Catan have the same number of territories, but choose them in alternating order; the differing combination of territories causes asymmetry.

Symmetry can be undone by human psychology; the advantage of players wearing red over players wearing blue is a well-documented example of this.

Systems and subsystems
In general, games can be viewed as systems of numbers and relations that typically consist of multiple subsystems. All numbers within a game only have a meaning in their given context. Subsystems can be dealt with separately and they might even have different balancing goals, but they also influence each other more or less. It is therefore crucial to consider how changes can affect the balance as a whole.

Transitivity and intransitivity
(In-)transitivity is a term used for logical relations. In games, this usually refers to relations between game elements, e.g. between the element A, B and C: In case of transitivity given A beats B and B beats C, A beats C. This means that A is the best element of those three. A transitive relation is especially useful as rewards for the player to receive more and more useful game elements.

In case of intransitivity given A beats B and B beats C, A does not automatically beat C. On the contrary, it might even be the case that C beats A, like in rock-paper-scissors. Intransitive relations can be assessed within the properties of game elements instead of just defining the outcome. This helps to create variety and prevent dominant strategies.

Balancing process
Balancing always includes changing quantifiable values and relations between them, directly or indirectly; this is done as an iterative process and partially dependent on the genre, during development and also afterwards (e.g. by rule changes, addons or software-updates). However, it cannot be completely solved by algorithms since aesthetics are also important and a perfect balance might actually achieve the opposite of fun. Ideally, simple rules deliver complex results. This is also referred to as “emergence”.

Firstly, a balanced basis should be created, so most later work consists in merely changing numbers and introducing new content becomes much easier. This makes it important for a designer to adjust numbers easily and they should always know how changes affect the overall system. Sight of the bigger picture should never be lost to create a positive experience for the player.

Extremely powerful game elements and dominant strategies are dangerous to the latter goal and should therefore be identified and corrected. Game elements that provide a highly situational use but have a fixed cost value, that is comparable to less situational elements, are particularly difficult to balance. Another priority is providing multiple viable options. Generally, players react better to buffing something than nerfing it. It is possible, however, to achieve those indirectly by changing another part of the system, since most content, if not everything is connected and related to each other.

Goals of balancing
The highest goal of balancing is always preserving or increasing the fun or engagement. This, however, can highly depend on the individual game and its audience and might even consist in great imbalance or turn into the opposite of fun: Especially in games with in game purchases or in-game advertising, the developer or publisher has an interest to monetize the game, even if it is detrimental to the fun. Such games may frequently interrupt the experience with advertisements or provide low chances (e.g. in loot boxes) to intentionally frustrate the player but keep engagement high to encourage spending money to skip frustrating parts. Otherwise, the player may face huge disadvantages (imbalances) even against other paying players.

In general, though, there is a consensus that huge imbalances are bad for a game, even if the game still is fun to play – a better balance would make it even more fun. Opinions on exactly what should be balanced, how well-balanced a game should ideally be and even if perfect balance is achievable or even a good thing vary. In some cases, it is even stated that a slight imbalance is actually beneficial.

A crucial goal of balancing a is preventing any of its component systems from being ineffective or otherwise undesirable when compared to their peers. An unbalanced system represents wasted development resources at the very least, and at worst can undermine the game's entire ruleset by making important roles or tasks impossible to perform.

One balancing approach is to set strategies as the goal, so all offered strategies have roughly equal chances of success. Strategies can only be affected by changing underlying game elements, but the balance between game elements is not the focus here. Strategies should offer a deep gaming experience.

The balance can depend on player skill. Therefore, one level of skill should be chosen as the goal of all development efforts. This might be professional or casual players, for example. On all other levels, that do not fit the prime audience, more imbalances can be accepted.

Preserving strategies and game elements from becoming irrelevant also is emphasized: Every given option should have at least some use and should be viable. To achieve this, strategies and game elements should be compared within all contexts they compete in, e.g. combat or resource investments. Extremely powerful (“broken”) strategies and elements are viewed as especially damaging since they devalue all their competitors.

Beyond all of that, there is an argument for some imbalances within a game, since that constantly encourages players to find new solution, e.g. by interacting in the metagame. This especially applies to frequently updated games. On the opposite end, (nearly) perfectly balanced games would result in mere execution of proven strategies, with only top players being able to create new successful strategies. Also, giving all game elements the exact same amount of power would make all decisions meaningless, since everything is equally powerful anyway.

Another approach emphasizes that balance between game elements, strategies and actions is not the most important factor, but providing counters against any situation that may arise. This always allows players to find them together and they never face unsolvable problems.

At least, there is the idea to include players in the balancing regarding their skills and other prerequisites. Matchmaking and handicaps can help achieving that. This might also decrease the influence of imbalance since players are more equally matched. In addition to that, the players’ perception of balance should be considered: Player behavior can affect success rates of strategies and game elements. Therefore, all changes should be communicated accordingly.

Characteristics of a well-balanced game
Despite not all goals of balancing are clear, many characteristics of well-balanced games are usually not disagreed on: Decisions should be meaningful. The player should still have a chance to win in most situations and no stalemates should arise, in which nobody can win or lose. Leading player or computer controlled opponents should never get an irretrievable advantage until they almost won. Early mistakes and chance should not make a game unwinnable. Also, the game should provide the player with enough information and control to avoid those errors, so the player always feels responsible for his or her actions.

Measuring the state of balance is another matter though, since it requires interpretation of data. Sheer win rates of strategies or game elements do not have a great significance without considering other factors like player skill and pick rates. Making correct conclusions is therefore crucial to find causes for imbalance.

Methods and tools
The following paragraphs present a collection of tools and methods used to balance a game or to measure its state. Not mathematical perfection, but fun, engagement or a mix of both is the main goal and human evaluation still is the only known measurement for successfully achieving those, especially fun. Also, balancing is an intricate process and typically needs many iterations.

Aesthetics and narration
The visual impression of a game should not contradict with its balancing. On the contrary: Especially real models, e.g. historic facts, can serve as inspiration for mechanics, counters, orthogonal unit differences or intransitive relations.

Balancing strategies
One approach is to move the balancing goal to strategies instead of game elements. Strategies typically include multiple elements and decisions. This makes sure that all game elements have at least some use and decisions stay meaningful. Also, seemingly fine game elements might become too powerful only in certain combinations. A difficulty of this is though that strategies can only be influenced by changing the game elements and mechanics they include.

Ban
Banning certain game elements or strategies is a way to remove dominant strategies from otherwise well-balanced games, especially in the competitive sector. This should be avoided when possible, however.

Central resource
A chosen value, this may be an attribute of a game elements, costs or an additionally calculated value like power, can be nominated as a benchmark for all other values. Every change of one of them means another one must change as well. It can affect the central resource but also any other value to still fit the same budget.

Counter
There should be a counter to every action, game element strategy that beats those in a direct competition. This does not only make dominant strategies unlikelier to develop, it also allows players to find new solutions for current challenges. Ideally, a counter relation is assessed within properties of game elements rather than simply defined. Also, decisions that are made at the beginning of a game that cannot be revised by the player should not determine the outcome right away.

Difficulty level
Video games often allow players to influence their balance by offering a choice of "difficulty levels". These affect how challenging the game is to play, and usually run on a general scale of "easy", "medium", and "hard". Sometimes, the difficulty is set once for the entirety of a game, while in other games it can be changed freely at any point. Modern games, e.g. Horizon Zero Dawn, may also feature a difficulty setting called “Story” for players who want to focus on the narrative rather than interactive parts like combat. There are also other terms. The Last of Us, for example, offers two settings above “hard”, called “survivor” and “grounded”.

In addition to altering the game's rules, difficulty levels can be used to alter what content is presented to the player. This usually takes the form of adding or removing challenging locations or events, but some games also change their narrative to reward players who play them on higher difficulty levels or end early as punishment for playing on easy. Difficulty selection is not always presented bluntly, particularly in competitive games where all players are affected equally, and the standard "easy/hard" terminology no longer applies. Sometimes veiled language is used (Mario Kart offers "CC select"), while at other times there may be an array of granular settings instead of an overarching difficulty option. An alternative approach to difficulty levels is catering to players of all abilities at the same time, a technique that has been called "subjective difficulty". This requires a game to provide multiple solutions or routes, each offering challenges appropriate to players of different skill levels (Super Mario Galaxy, Sonic Generations).

Feedback
While tester feedback is important when developing and updating a game, there are certain things to be kept in mind: Skill and the ability to explain do not necessarily correlate with each other. There are typically more players than developers, so they are better at solving it. Additionally, new testers should be added from time to time since practice effects emerge.

Gamemaster
A game can be balanced dynamically by a gamemaster who observes players and adjusts the game in response to their actions, emotional state, etc., or even proactively changes the direction of the game to create certain experiences.

Although gamemasters have historically been humans, some videogames now feature artificial intelligence (AI) systems that perform a similar role by monitoring player ability and inferring emotional state from input. Such systems are often referred to as having dynamic difficulty. One notable example is Left 4 Dead and its sequel Left 4 Dead 2, cooperative games that have the players fight through hordes of zombie-like creatures including unique creatures with special abilities. Both games use an AI Director which not only generates random events but tries to create tension and fear by spawning-in creatures to specific rule sets based on how players are progressing, specifically penalizing players through more difficult challenges for not working together. Research into biofeedback peripherals is set to greatly improve the accuracy of such systems.

Game theory
Game theory focuses more on theoretical modeling of competing players and their decision making and therefore is only for limited use in game design. However, it does offer knowledge and tools like a Net Payoff Matrix that can be helpful to measure power and understand player reasoning.

Handicaps
Handicaps may create a competitive situation between players of different skill level, but they might also go too far and render skill irrelevant. Handicaps are disadvantages that sometimes are deliberately self-inflicted.

Intuition
Games can be complex systems. Since development resources are limited, relying on intuition can sometimes be useful or even necessary. The designer should always keep in mind how changes affect other parts of the game and guesses should always rely on evidence or proof.

Matchmaking and ranking
An approach to avoid some balancing problems all together is ranking players depending on their skill. Ideally, the ranking system predicts the outcome almost perfectly and every player (in a PvP game) has roughly the same win rate, even considering factors that lie outside the game, like the gaming device. In any case, good match making benefits a game greatly, since, for example, newbies are not matched against experienced players who leave them with no chance of winning and the challenge of stronger opponents rises together with each player's skills.

Observation
Some obvious problems become clear through sheer observation of the game and player behavior. This includes mathematical superiority of game elements or strategies but also extremely high or low usage of those. In any case, statistics do not necessarily represent causalities and that there are typically multiple factors.

Orthogonal unit differences
Orthogonal unit differences describes properties of game elements that cannot be compared by inherent numbers. Ideally, every game element has at least one unique trait. This also helps creating intransitivity and counters.

Pacing
Player versus environment games are usually balanced to tread the fine line of regularly challenging players' abilities without ever producing insurmountable or unfair obstacles. This turns balancing into the management of dramatic structure, generally referred to by game designers as "pacing". Pacing is also a consideration in competitive games, but the autonomy of players makes it harder to control.

Power curve
A power curve (also: cost curve ) is a relation that reflects the ratio between power and costs. It is especially useful when dealing with multiple game elements that provide varying benefits depending on different values of the same cost, e.g. when using a central resource. While a power curve always shows an order, it does not necessarily represent exact relations, depending on the level of measurement.

Randomization
Randomization of starting conditions is a technique common in board games, card games, and also experimental research, which fights back against the human tendency to optimize patterns in one's favor.

The downside of randomization is that it takes control away from the player, potentially leading to frustration. Methods of overcoming this include giving the player a selection of random results within which they can optimize (Scrabble, Magic: The Gathering) and making each game session short enough to encourage multiple attempts in one play session (Klondike, Strange Adventures in Infinite Space).

Statistical analysis
Statistics can help collecting empiric data of player behavior, success rates, etc., to identify unbalanced areas and make corrections. Ideally, a game gathers this data automatically. Statistics can only support a designers‘ abilities and intuition and are therefore only one part of making design decisions, together with, for example, tester- or user feedback. Statistics and their interpretation should also consider factors like skill and pick-rates.

Tier list
A tier list orders game elements according to their power in multiple categories. This ranking can be achieved using feedback, empiric data or subjective impressions. While the number and names of tiers can vary, a list typically goes from “god tier” through multiple tiers in between to “garbage tier”. While balancing, all elements within the god tier should be nerfed first. Too powerful elements make many other elements worse if not useless. After this, all elements within the garbage tier should be buffed until they are no longer useless. In the end, the power differences between all other tiers can be adjusted until a satisfying state is reached. A tier list is especially useful when working with game elements that have exactly the same cost, e.g. characters in a Fighting game.

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text:
Mob Rule (disambiguation)

Mob Rule is a PC game released in 1999 by Simon & Schuster and Studio 3.

Mob Rule may also refer to:
 * Mob rule or ochlocracy, a government by mob or a mass of people
 * Mob Rule, a Flash enemy in DC Comics

title: Mob Rule (disambiguation)


text:
Talk:Les Jeux des Jeunes Garçons

First book with rules similar to baseball
I saw this page on the recent changes, and it looked like nonsense. I was about to list it for speedy deletion, but I did a Google search, and discovered that it really exists. It is believed to be the first book (published 1815) to describe baseball. The title is translated 'Games of the young boys'. • →  Iñgólemo  ←•  02:31, 2004 Oct 21 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one WikiProject had rated the article as stub, and the rating on other projects was brought up to Stub class. BetacommandBot 13:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Les Jeux des Jeunes Garçons


text:
38 Special (album)

38 Special is the debut studio album by American rock band 38 Special, released in 1977 by A&M Records. It was remastered and reissued on the Lemon record label in 2003. Two singles, "Long Time Gone" (A&M 1946-S) and "Tell Everybody" (A&M 1964-S), were released, but neither charted on the Billboard Hot 100.

"Around and Around" is a cover of a 1958 song by Chuck Berry.

38 Special

 * Donnie Van Zant – lead vocals
 * Don Barnes – guitars, backing vocals
 * Jeff Carlisi – guitars, pedal steel guitar, dobro
 * Ken Lyons – bass
 * Steve Brookins – drums, percussion
 * Jack Grondin – drums

Additional personnel

 * Terry Emery – acoustic piano
 * Dan Hartman – acoustic piano (2)
 * Larry Junstrom – bass (2)
 * Jocelyn Brown – backing vocals (2, 7, 8)
 * Lani Groves – backing vocals (2, 7, 8)
 * Carl Hall – backing vocals (2, 7, 8)

Production

 * Dan Hartman – producer
 * Dave Still – engineer and mixing at The Schoolhouse (Westport, Connecticut)
 * Greg Calbi – mastering at Sterling Sound (New York City, New York)
 * Roland Young – art direction
 * Junie Osaki – album design
 * Stan Evenson – logo design
 * Larry Dupont – hand tinting
 * Neil Selkirk – photography

Charts
Album – Billboard (United States)

title: 38 Special (album)


text:
Wikipedia:Template index/Wikipedia namespace

The Project namespace includes Wikipedia official policies and guidelines, process pages, discussion pages, optional essays, informative pages, humorous and historical pages.


text:
User:HierarchyPedia

You wrote on my talk page:

Hi, I am very interested in the Order of the Bull's Blood. Where have you heard about this? and are there any sources on it? I contacted Rutgers University and they said there is no such society, and that the only secret society they have is Cap and Skull. - User:HierarchyPedia

This is my only response.

 * Sorry, as a policy, we don't (and won't) talk about it. And who the f*ck are you to rearrange the format of my talk page? --ExplorerCDT 02:33, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: User:HierarchyPedia


text: Wikipedia:Template index/Media namespace


text:
Category:Singaporean people

This category is for people who are Singapore citizens.

For other people born or resident in Singapore, please use Category:People from Singapore.

 * To ensure that biographical articles are sorted by people's surnames, please add " " to the articles.

title: Category:Singaporean people


text:
User talk:Presnell

Welcome
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~ ~ ~. Four tildes (~ ~ ) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
 * How to edit a page; Editing tutorial; Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article; Naming conventions; Manual of Style

Whosyourjudas (talk) 02:36, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Yoism
I have responded to you comments on Articles for deletion/Yoism.Geni 18:18, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Presnell, the vote for undeletion of Yoism is drawing to a close and it looks like it will be decided by a single vote or two. If you are interested in participating, it can be found here. Kriegman 15:01, 20 November 2005 (UTC)

Re: Your insightful vote on the Yoism VfD
In a message dated 10/22/2005 3:05:31 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, wiki@bofh.com writes: I have summarized everything on a page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Wikibofh/Yoism

To summarize the summary, yes, I discounted all of those votes. I can see how you would disagree with this, so I really do recommend VfU. It could be that the other admins will disagree with my rationale.

Respectfully -

Jot -- Jot Powers         http://www.bofh.com

This is very sad.

I invested great effort in this to see if the Wikipedia could overcome what others call devastating limitations. Though I do NOT support Larry Sanger's call for deference to "experts," I'm afraid the Wikipedia---in its ostensible call for openness---has created a new elite class of "experts" and is closing the door.

When 6 or 7 hyper-editors averaging way more than 2,000 edits each, none of whom had the chance to have---and none of whom voiced a willingness to wait for---the opportunity to actually experience the phenomenon being judged, ride roughshod over 7 or 8 editor-users (all with a least one prior, unrelated edit, but far less than 2,000) all of whom have carefully reviewed the phenomenon in question, this is quite sad.

We have created a new elite class of experts who have power.

The rest of us can just go home. The experts are in charge.

Dan Kriegman 03:37, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with File:North-dallas-forty-poster-1.jpg
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File:Harlem-nights-poster-1.jpg missing description details
Dear uploader: The media file you uploaded as: is missing a description and/or other details on its image description page. If possible, please add this information. This will help other editors make better use of the image, and it will be more informative to readers.
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title: User talk:Presnell


text:
Ferron

Ferron Foisy (born Deborah Foisy on 1 June 1952; known professionally as Ferron) is a Canadian singer-songwriter and poet. In addition to gaining fame as one of Canada's most respected songwriters, Ferron, who is openly lesbian, became one of the earliest and most influential lyrical songwriters of the women's music circuit, and an important influence on later musicians such as Ani DiFranco, Mary Gauthier and the Indigo Girls. From the mid-eighties on, Ferron's songwriting talents have been recognized and appreciated by music critics and broader audiences, with comparisons being made to the writing talents of Van Morrison, Bob Dylan, and Leonard Cohen.

Early life
Born in Toronto and raised around Richmond, British Columbia, Canada, she learned to play guitar at age 11, and left home at 15. Ferron attended Total Ed, an alternative high school in Vancouver, B.C., graduating in 1973. Of her earliest musical memories, she wrote, "my mother's French Canadian family played music. I heard guitars and banjo and accordion and scrub board and my grandfather clogging. I put it together...music meant fun, meant love and laughter. I started writing songs when I was 10, never saved them after some kids at school found them and teased me about it. I wrote songs and remembered them and when I forgot them I felt they were not important anymore. The next time I saved a song I was 18. It was 1970." It was with that first saved song that she made her professional debut in 1975, playing the song "Who Loses" at a benefit for the Women's Press Gang, a Vancouver-based feminist publishing house.

In 1971, Foisy changed her name to Ferron when one of her friends had a dream in which she was called Ferron, which is loosely translated from French meaning iron and rust. Ferron discovered later in her life that she had Métis ancestry. She said in 2017, "My dream is to die a lesbian, First Nations, Canadian."

1970s and 1980s
While still based in Vancouver, Ferron established her own record label, Lucy Records, and released her self-titled debut album in 1977. The album was recorded in a video studio on two-track equipment, and, as she stated, "the production quality was pretty poor". Nonetheless, all one thousand copies printed sold quickly.

Shortly after her second album Backed Up in 1978, she joined forces with Gayle Scott, who would prove to be her longtime manager, executive producer, and partner in Lucy Records/Penknife Productions, LTD, producing the next two albums and launching concert touring throughout the states. 1980's Testimony was her first professionally produced album, originally distributed through Holly Near's Redwood Records label. Testimony brought her much interest in the United States, particularly in the women's music community. The title song became something of an anthem for many in the women's music community, was notably covered by Sweet Honey in the Rock, and was featured on the second season of The L Word, playing dramatically over the closing credits.

Her 1984 album Shadows on a Dime received a rating of four stars (out of five) from Rolling Stone magazine, which called Ferron "a culture hero" and the album "cowgirl meets Yeats...a thing of beauty." Shadows earned a place on music critic Robert Christgau's "Dean's List" for 1984.

1990s and beyond
Awarded a Canada Arts Council grant in 1985 to further develop her musicianship, she ended up taking several years off from touring and recording. During this time, she earned some of her living as a carpenter's assistant, bartender, and day care worker, before reinvesting in her music career. Ferron returned to the studio and the road in 1990 with Phantom Center released by Chameleon Records, and produced by Joe Chiccarelli. The album featured backing vocals by a then relatively unknown Tori Amos, and consequently is highly sought after by collectors. Later, in September 1995, Phantom Center would be re-released on EarthBeat! Records with a new recording of the song "Stand Up" backed by the Indigo Girls with their then touring players, bassist Sara Lee and drummer Jerry Marotta.

Between 1992 and 1994, Ferron released three albums on her own Cherrywood Station label (Not a Still Life 1992, Resting with the Question 1992, Driver 1993). The twelve song Driver was first licensed by EarthBeat! Records in 1994, and was highly acclaimed by critics as a masterwork and nominated for a Juno Award in 1995. Following this success, Ferron signed to Warner Bros. enabling her to create Still Riot in the studio with producer db Benedictson for release in the fall of 1996. During her brief tenure with Warner they released Driver as a re-issue, Phantom Center as a re-mixed album, and Still Riot as Ferron's ninth full album project. Initially contracted with Warner for a 7-year, 3-record contract, the deal was terminated early and by 1997 Ferron was back to putting out her own work on the Cherrywood Station label.

In 1996 Ferron received the OUTmusic Award for Lifetime Achievement at the Gay & Lesbian American Music Awards.

For the later half of the nineties, Ferron continued to tour, offer songwriting workshops, and turned her attention back to self-produced projects. As a benefit for the non-profit Institute for Musical Arts (IMA) dedicated to teaching and supporting women and girls in the musical arts, Ferron released Inside Out (1999), covering well-known tunes from the 1950s–1970s. She published a handmade book, THe (h)UNGeR POeMs, while she was teaching classes at IMA. She gathered some of her earlier, then out-of-print recordings to create Impressionistic (2000), a retrospective double album with a 24-page, autobiographical booklet. Her 57-page book, Catching Holy, Poems 2006–2008 was offered by Nemesis Publishing in 2008.

In 2004 she returned to the very island, in British Columbia, where some of her earliest recorded songs were written, to create Turning into Beautiful produced by independent music award-winning Canadian producer db Benedictson. Turning into Beautiful reunited the award-winning musicians from the Driver and Still Riot projects for the release tour. In 2007 she began re-releasing a series of CDs as her Collected Works, and so far Testimony, Driver, Shadows on a Dime, and Turning into Beautiful have appeared completely re-jacketed with previously unreleased photographs.

In 2008, Ferron released Boulder, produced by admirer/musician turned collaborator Bitch (with JD Samson for one song) on the Short Story Records label. Boulder includes guest appearances by Ani DiFranco, Amy Ray and Emily Saliers (Indigo Girls), JD Samson (Le Tigre), Sam Parton (Be Good Tanyas), Tina G (God-des) and Julie Wolf. A CD with live performances, Girl on a Road was released in 2011. Bitch produced the newest Ferron CD Lighten-ing released in 2013 with the film Thunder packaged as a two-disc set.

In addition to her performance career, Ferron has taught master classes in writing in places including Omega Institute, NY, The Rowe Conference Center in Massachusetts, IMA in Bodega, California, and in Provincetown, Massachusetts. She was instrumental in opening up a retreat center near Three Rivers, Michigan called The Fen Peace and Poetry Camp for Women. In 2009 to 2010, Ferron created commissioned textile art—wall hangings, quilts, and pillows—that features her lyrics and poetry. For Ferron, "artistic expression is not only essential, it's revolutionary." "Art is really the expression of the soul," Ferron says. "I'm asking women to remember that if we remember our soul, we keep our soul, and we can do it through artistic connections. Art is connected to the soul, and the soul is connected to God, and God is connected to humility, so if you want to take control of a person's soul, don't let them have art. To me it's a revolutionary act to continue keeping your artist soul alive".

In July 2017, Ferron performed at the 40th annual Vancouver Folk Music Festival at Jericho Beach Park in Vancouver, BC. The Main Stage festival finale was led by Ferron and fellow Canadian singer-songwriter Roy Forbes, with festival artists on stage and the audience singing along to one of Ferron's anthems: "Testimony".

Discography

 * Ferron (1977)
 * Backed Up (1978)
 * Testimony (1980)
 * Shadows on a Dime (1984)
 * Phantom Center (1990)
 * Not a Still Life (1992, live)
 * Resting With the Question (1992)
 * Driver (1994)
 * Still Riot (1996)
 * Inside Out (1999)
 * Impressionistic (2002, compilation)
 * Turning into Beautiful (2005)
 * Boulder (2008)
 * Girl on a Road (2011, live)
 * Lighten-ing (2013)

Film

 * 2002: Ferron was featured in Radical Harmonies, a documentary on the history of women's music directed by Dee Mosbacher
 * 2009: Ferron: Girl on a Road, a filmography on the musician directed by Gerry Rogers, was released and screened at film festivals and in television broadcast
 * 2012: Thunder filmed by Billie Jo Cavallaro and co-directed with Bitch was an Official Selection at the Wild Rose Independent Film Festival in 2013.

Printed works

 * Not A Still Life Songbook. (50 pp.; musical notation and lyrics; wire-bound to lay flat.) Nemesis Publishing, Vashon, WA. (1993)
 * "Courting the Muse: Thoughts on the Art of Songwriting. Sentimental Education." Sing Out!: The Folk Song Magazine 39(3):55–57. (1994)
 * THe (h)UNGeR POeMs. (Printed in two formats: a "bound card" version, and an unbound version consisting of 10 leaves on linen held inside an artisanal envelope of handmade paper; autographed.) Big Universe Productions, Bodega, CA. (1997) (Third edition (2000) )
 * Catching Holy. Poems 2006–2008. (57 pp.; perfect binding.) Nemesis Publishing, Three Rivers, MI. (2008)

title: Ferron


text: Wikipedia:Template index/Lists

title: Wikipedia:Template index/Lists


text:
File:38 Special - Special Delivery.jpg

Summary
Cover for the album Special Delivery by .38 Special

title: File:38 Special - Special Delivery.jpg


text:
Wikipedia:Template index/Compact tables of contents

This page lists ways to create several kinds of compact tables of contents (TOC). Please note that a normal compact TOC will not work when put on Category pages; this page contains a separate section instructing you how to put a compact TOC on Category pages.

Non-category pages
These should work on pages whose title does not begin with "Category:".

See template page for numerous examples. This highly customizable template can replace most other templates listed below, which are in the process of being switched over to its code.

Variable, see template page for examples

Similar to the above, includes the prefix in the links: designed for use with pages such as List of acronyms and initialisms: A.

Use before= or after= to manually create links to other sections on the page. If after is left blank, links to, and  may also be generated using optional parameters.

Category pages
Use one of these on pages whose title begins with "Category:".


text:
Special Delivery (38 Special album)

Special Delivery is the second studio album by the American band 38 Special, released in 1978. Neon Park was responsible for the album's artwork.

Track listing
Song timings taken from original LP label.

Side One
 * 1) "I'm a Fool for You" (John Cascella) – 2:55
 * 2) "Turnin' to You" (Don Barnes, Jeff Carlisi) – 4:03
 * 3) "Travelin' Man" (Barnes, Carlisi, Donnie Van Zant) – 4:19
 * 4) "I Been a Mover" (Carlisi, Van Zant) – 4:25

Side Two
 * 1) "What Can I Do?" (Barnes, Van Zant) – 4:29
 * 2) "Who's Been Messin'" (Barnes, Carlisi, Van Zant, Dan Hartman) – 4:16
 * 3) "Can't Keep a Good Man Down" (Barnes, Van Zant, Larry Junstrom) – 3:18
 * 4) "Take Me Back" (Barnes, Van Zant) – 5:15

38 Special

 * Donnie Van Zant – lead vocals
 * Don Barnes – electric guitar, 12-string acoustic guitar, backing vocals
 * Jeff Carlisi – acoustic guitar, electric guitar, slide guitar
 * Larry Junstrom – bass guitar
 * Steve Brookins – drums
 * Jack Grondin – drums

Additional personnel

 * Billy Powell – acoustic piano (1, 8)
 * Edgar Winter – saxophone solo (7), saxophone arrangements (7)
 * Louise Bethune – backing vocals
 * Carl Hall – backing vocals
 * Dale Krantz – backing vocals

Production

 * Dan Hartman – producer, mixing (2-8)
 * Dave Still – engineer, mixing (2-8)
 * Kevin Herron – mixing (1)
 * Ted Spencer – mix assistant
 * Greg Calbi – mastering at Sterling Sound (New York City, New York)
 * Roland Young – art direction
 * Junie Osaki – design
 * Neon Park – illustration
 * Mark Hanauer – photography

title: Special Delivery (38 Special album)


text: User talk:68.44.95.17

title: User talk:68.44.95.17


text:
Talk:Aishwarya Rai Bachchan

Panama Papers edit request on 22 December 2021
Aishwarya Rai Bachhan is named in Panama Papers and being interrogated by Enforcement Directorate of India. Hence I request an edit on this controversy. --Arunudoy (talk) 07:52, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 15 September 2022
She primarily works In Hindi and TAMIL Films. 78.150.44.189 (talk) 14:00, 15 September 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Just 6 of her 48 credits are in Tamil per Aishwarya Rai filmography. That is not 'primarily' by definition (adverb for the most part). -- Ab207 (talk) 14:30, 15 September 2022 (UTC)

Pronouncation
Please provide a pronunciation of her name. 70.52.161.76 (talk) 19:59, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ Keivan.f  Talk 05:42, 22 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Aishwarya Rai Bachchan


text:
Jumbo (musical)

Jumbo is a musical produced by Billy Rose, with music and lyrics by Richard Rodgers and Lorenz Hart and book by Ben Hecht and Charles MacArthur.

Production
The musical opened on Broadway at the Hippodrome Theatre on November 16, 1935 and closed on April 18, 1936 after 233 performances. Directed by John Murray Anderson and George Abbott it starred Jimmy Durante, Donald Novis, Gloria Grafton, and featured circus specialty acts. Jumbo tells the story of a financially strapped circus. At the end of each performance, Durante lay down on the stage and permitted a live elephant to place its foot upon his head.

The large 5,000-seat theatre was turned into a circus tent where the many specialty acts (including acrobats and animal acts) performed during the show. The music was played by Paul Whiteman and his orchestra.

Opening night
The musicians included as follows:
 * Paul Samuel Whiteman, leader
 * Mischa Russell, concert master
 * Matty Malneck, Harry Struble, Bob Lawrence, violins
 * Eddie Wade, Harry Goldfield, Charlie Teagarden, trumpets
 * Bill Rank, Jack Teagarden, Hal Matthews, trombones
 * Bennie Bonacio, Frank Trumbauer, alto saxophones
 * John Baptiste Cordaro, Edward Powell, tenor saxophones
 * Charlie Strickfaden, baritone saxophone
 * Roy Bargy, piano
 * Michael Pingitore, banjo
 * Artie Miller, bass
 * Norman McPherson, tuba
 * Larry Gomerdinger, drums and percussion

Songs

 * Act 1
 * Over and Over Again – Mr. Ball and Henderson's Razorbacks
 * The Circus Is on Parade – Henderson's Razorbacks and Artists of the Circus
 * The Most Beautiful Girl in the World – Matt Mulligan Jr. and Mickey Considine
 * Laugh – Claudius B. Bowers and Circus Specialty
 * My Romance – Matt Mulligan Jr. and Mickey Considine
 * Little Girl Blue – Mickey Considine

 * Act 2
 * The Song of the Roustabouts – The Razorbacks
 * Women –Claudius B. Bowers, Circus Specialty, Allan K. Foster Girls and Dancers
 * Memories of Madison Square Garden (When the Circus Played the Garden) – Ensemble
 * Diavolo – Mr. Ball, The Razorbacks and Circus Specialties
 * The Circus Wedding – Entire Company and The Menagerie

Note:The song "There's a Small Hotel", dropped from the production before it opened, later appeared in the 1936 Rodgers and Hart musical On Your Toes and became a standard.

1962 film
The musical was made into a movie as Billy Rose's Jumbo in 1962, starring Jimmy Durante, Doris Day, Martha Raye, and Stephen Boyd, featuring Busby Berkeley's choreography. It was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Scoring of Music-Adaptation or Treatment. Although Jimmy Durante was in the cast of both the stage musical and the film (made nearly three decades later), the two productions have very different plots, using much of the same score, and the characters' names were changed in the film. However, one piece of stage business from the stage musical was repeated in the film: In both versions, Durante is working for a cash-strapped circus when its assets are seized by creditors. Durante attempts to sneak his beloved elephant Jumbo off the circus grounds, only to be confronted by a sheriff, who demands: "Where you going with that elephant?" Caught red-handed, Durante blithely replies "What elephant?"

title: Jumbo (musical)


text:
Necrophagist

Necrophagist was a German technical death metal band founded and fronted by guitarist and vocalist Muhammed Suiçmez. The band used baroque music-influenced compositions paired with extreme metal drumming.

The name originates from the Greek roots νεκρο- nekro- ("dead body") and -φαγος -phagos ("eater of"). This figuratively translates to eater of the dead; literally the eater of dead bodies.

1999–2004: Onset of Putrefaction and Epitaph
Necrophagist's debut album Onset of Putrefaction has been out of print for years. The percussion on the album was handled by a drum machine. Eventually, a new edition with drum samples recorded by Hannes Grossmann was created. All of the old guitar, bass guitar and vocal tracks were mixed along with the brand new drum samples. The re-release also features two songs from Necrophagist's 1995 self-titled demo tape. The whole album was also engineered by long-time Necrophagist engineer and producer Christoph Brandes at The Iguana Studios. It was mastered by Bob Katz at "Digital Domain", Orlando, Florida. The re-release was issued in 2004 by Willowtip in the United States/Canada and Relapse in the rest of the world. In August 2001, Necrophagist performed at the Brutal Assault open air festival in the Czech Republic. The band also returned to perform in the years 2003, 2005 and 2010.

2004–2008: Touring and continued lineup changes
On 10 February 2006, it was announced that Christian Münzner had departed the band due to scheduling conflicts. Later on, he joined the death metal band Obscura. A replacement guitarist was found, Sami Raatikainen, who is from Helsinki, Finland. Sami also plays in the band Codeon.

In 2006, the band undertook an American tour called "Carving North America's Epitaph". Necrophagist was joined on this tour by Arsis, Alarum, Neuraxis, Ion Dissonance, Cattle Decapitation and Thine Eyes Bleed. They, along with Dying Fetus, supported Cannibal Corpse on their U.S. tour in the fall, which also included some Canadian venues.

In 2007, the band announced on its Myspace profile that after the 2007 California Metalfest, drummer Hannes Grossmann would leave the band. Hannes stated that he was unable to commit to the band's full-time touring schedule. Marco Minnemann (who has played with Paul Gilbert, Terry Bozzio, Chad Wackerman) was the official permanent replacement for Hannes.

Necrophagist was a headlining act for The Summer Slaughter Tour in 2007, which featured a wide variety of other extreme metal bands including Decapitated, Arsis, The Faceless, Cephalic Carnage, As Blood Runs Black and Cattle Decapitation.

In April 2008, Necrophagist announced that Romain Goulon would be joining the band as their new drummer, replacing Minnemann, who would still be working with Suiçmez on a side project.

Necrophagist played in the "Pillage the Village Tour" in 2008 from 26 August 2008 to 10 September 2008 with death metal bands Dying Fetus and Beneath the Massacre. Shows in some areas also included Carcass, Suffocation, 1349 and Aborted.

2008–present: Hiatus
In 2008, Necrophagist began work on its next album with new drummer Romain Goulon. According to rumors, two possible names were "The Path to Naught" and "Death to the Faithful". Suiçmez stated that the band would be using seven-string guitars on the album. Muhammed himself will be recording with a new custom shop Ibanez Xiphos guitar with seven strings, as well as 27 frets. Sami Raatikainen is an Ibanez guitar endorser, using a 7 String RG-Series guitar on stage.

As of 2012, it was unknown if Necrophagist were still active, or had plans to release a follow-up to Epitaph. This had led to a large amount of speculation on the part of fans, bewildered by the album's long wait. However, in a statement made in August 2012, former drummer Marco Minnemann stated there was indeed progress on a new album, saying "I know people are waiting for the new Necro album so bad. Muhammed is a very close friend of mine and I know he's really concerned about delivering the best album possible. But I personally know there's progress....hang on in there, I'm sure he'll deliver the goods."

On 11 September 2013, drummer Romain Goulon issued a statement that Necrophagist were still active and attempting to record a new album, however, there was no indication of when it would be released. Then on 4 April 2016, Goulon replied to a Facebook comment and stated "We're looking for a coffin to mourn the dead", saying that Necrophagist would not be moving forward as a band, and thus were done.

Members
Final lineup
 * Muhammed Suiçmez – guitar, vocals (1992–2010)
 * Stephan Fimmers – bass (2003–2010)
 * Sami Raatikainen – guitar (2006–2010)
 * Romain Goulon – drums (2008–2010)

Former members
 * Jochen Bittmann – bass (1992–2001)
 * Jan-Paul Herm – guitar (1992–1995)
 * Matthias Holzapfel – guitar (1995–2000)
 * Raphael Kempermann – drums (1992–1995)
 * Daniel Silva – drums (1995–1998, 2001–2003)
 * Shahram Naderi – drums (1998–2001)
 * Mostafa Karami – guitar (1998–2001)
 * Mario Petrovic – guitar (2000–2001)
 * Slavek Foltyn – drums (2000–2001)
 * Björn Vollmer – guitar (2001–2002)
 * Julien Laroche – bass (2001–2003)
 * Christian Münzner – guitar (2002–2006)
 * Heiko Linzert – bass (2003)
 * Hannes Grossmann – drums (2003–2007)
 * Marco Minnemann – drums (2007–2008)

Discography
Studio albums
 * Onset of Putrefaction (1999)
 * Epitaph (2004)

Demo tapes
 * Requiems of Festered Gore (1992)
 * Necrophagist (1995)

title: Necrophagist


text:
The New Games Book

The New Games Book and its companion, More New Games, were resources developed for the "New Games" movement which began in the late 1960s to encourage people to play non-competitive or friendlier games. Many of the "New Games" may now be seen played, in their modern variants, in church youth groups, summer camps, gym classes, theatre workshops and as team-building exercises for organizations.

The New Games movement was initiated by Rose (Pat) Farrington, who helped to organize the first "New Games Tournament" at Gerbode Preserve in October 1973. The Tournament was funded by The Point Foundation.

The success of this tournament led to the creation of the New Games Foundation which published The New Games Book in 1976 when the Foundation was under the direction of Bernie DeKoven, Burton Naiditch and John O'Connell. DeKoven was one of the main contributors to the development of the New Games Training program which was key to the dissemination of the New Games concept worldwide. The Foundation ended in 1983.

 * The New Games Book edited by Andrew Fluegelman, 1976 ISBN 0-385-12516-X
 * More New Games edited by Andrew Fluegelman, 1981 ISBN 0-385-17514-0
 * New Games for the Whole Family by Dale N. Le Fevre, 1988 ISBN 0-399-51448-1 (revised as The Spirit of Play, 2007 ISBN 1-84409-092-2).
 * Best New Games by Dale N. Le Fevre, 2002, ISBN 0-7360-3685-7
 * Best New Games—Updated Edition by Dale N. Le Fevre, 2012 ISBN 1-4504-2188-1

title: The New Games Book


text:
Talk:Ionic Greek

Major Reworking 28 Sept 2005
I found this article with some major factual problems -- Homer described as being mainly in Aeolian with some Ionian, Ionian cities in Asia Minor described as colonies, etc.

One thing led to another. Major reworking.

Apologies to anyone whose efforts got overwritten.

Subdialects
Did Ionian have any internal variation? I'm inclined to think it should, given a) its wide spread in geographic terms; b) the fact that many speakers lived on islands and were thereby physically isolated from one another; c) the proximity of Aeolian, Doric and Attic, which may be expected to have mixed with Ionic in border areas and d) the major variation within Doric and to a lesser extent Aeolian. Steinbach (talk) 11:46, 1 August 2018 (UTC)

glossary links
almost all of the links in the glossary that lead to perseus.tufts.edu/hopper are broken Matthewmorrone1 (talk) 14:28, 20 December 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ionic Greek


text:
User:Chealer

I am Philippe Cloutier. I admire:

title: User:Chealer


text:
Quad 4 engine

Quad 4 is the name of a family of principally DOHC inline four-cylinder engines produced by General Motors' Oldsmobile division between 1987 and 2002; a single SOHC version was built between 1992 and 1994.

Its name was derived from the engine's four-valve, four-cylinder layout. Introduced with a displacement of 2260 cc, the engine was a modern design for its time, using a cast-iron block and an aluminum head. Even though belts were more popular for this purpose on OHC engines at the time, chains were used to time the camshafts to the crankshaft. The water pump is also driven by the timing chain.

The Quad 4 was the first wholly domestic regular production DOHC four-cylinder engine designed and built by GM; the only prior DOHC four-cylinder engine offered by GM was the Cosworth Vega, which featured a DOHC head designed by Cosworth in England. In addition to the 2260 cc DOHC versions, there was also both a short-lived SOHC variant, the "Quad OHC", available from 1992 to 1994, and the 2392 cc Twin Cam from 1996 to 2002.

All engines in the Quad 4 family were produced at the Lansing Engine Plant (plant five) in Delta Township near Lansing, Michigan. The Twin Cam was the last engine that was engineered and produced solely by Oldsmobile; the Aurora V8 and Shortstar V6 shared architecture with the Cadillac Northstar V8.

First released to the public as a regular production option for the 1988 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais and Pontiac Grand Am, the engine's availability expanded to Buick in late 1988 and Chevrolet in 1990, after which it became a mainstay in GM's lineup until its cancellation after the 2002 model year. It was replaced by the Ecotec for the 2003 model year.

Reception
Simultaneous to the engine's release in 1988, Oldsmobile attempted to further the Quad 4 name through highly publicized events featuring such cars as the Oldsmobile Aerotech. Another such event was the 1988 Indianapolis 500, when Oldsmobile was chosen to pace the race with a convertible version of their Cutlass Supreme, and a pre-production turbocharged Quad 4 was the engine of choice for their pace car. Although it was publicized in 1988 that the Quad 4 was forthcoming in a 180 bhp "HO", as well as a 250 bhp turbocharged version (the same engine that was in the pace car that year), GM never released the turbocharged version as a publicly available option. Although the engine in Oldsmobile Aerotech was a purpose-built, turbocharged example; it was solely meant to showcase the capability of the engine's design.

After the first few years of positive reviews of the Quad 4, the automotive press began to criticize it for its noise, vibration, and harshness (NVH) levels. At the time, the Quad 4 was generally compared to turbocharged four-cylinders, V6s, and occasionally V8s. The first changes of the Quad 4 to address its NVH were two rounds of exhaust port size reductions, followed by the addition of balance shafts in 1995. Further changes were made for the 1996 model year when the engine's bore and stroke were changed, and the engine was subsequently redubbed "Twin Cam".

In recent years, the design has gained a minor following in hot rodding circles as a period style engine because it looks similar to a 1930s Offenhauser DOHC design (once you remove the ribbed aluminum cover, exposing the tall "cam towers" and the deep valley between them holding the spark plugs).

LD2

The 2260 cc LD2 was the standard version of the Quad 4, introduced in 1987 for the 1988 model year. In base form it put out 150 bhp from 1988 to 1989 and 160 bhp from 1990 to 1992. GM was able to produce the 160 bhp with a 9.5:1 compression ratio, meeting emission standards without using either a turbo or an EGR system.

The base Quad 4 saw several slight changes during its production run including different crankshafts, cams, and manifolds, all meant to increase torque and lessen the NVH.

In an effort to yield 5 additional HP some highly opted 1992 RPO LD2 SC Oldsmobile Achievas received a vortex valve along the TB induction pipe runner with an injection molded auxiliary induction tube funneling cool air from outside the engine compartment to the airbox via the openings around drivers side headlight (ram/air replete with cold weather block off plate in radiator core support) as until the engine warmed up would cause stumbling issues with the MAF sensor.

There was also a transitional version of the LD2 in 1995, with the same displacement as the early Quad 4 but featuring the dual balance shafts of the later equipped 2.4-liter LD9 Twin Cam.

Applications:
 * 1988–1991 Buick Skylark
 * 1992–1994 Oldsmobile Achieva
 * 1988–1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais
 * 1990–1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
 * 1988–1994 Pontiac Grand Am
 * 1990–1991 Pontiac Grand Prix
 * 1993–1997 Pontiac Trans Sport (Europe only)

1995
For 1995 only, a balance shaft-equipped version of the 2260 cc version was produced. This arrangement ensures a constant load on the shafts: the crank drives one shaft, which drives the second, which then drives the oil pump. The shafts spin at twice the engine rpm, forcing the redline to be reduced from 6800 to 6500 rpm. Output is 150 bhp and 150 lbft. This was the only Quad 4 produced in 1995.

This was known as a transitional year for the engine family.

Applications:
 * 1995 Pontiac Sunfire GT
 * 1995 Chevrolet Cavalier Z24
 * 1995 Pontiac Grand Am
 * 1995 Oldsmobile Achieva
 * 1995 Buick Skylark

LG0
The "high output" 2260 cc LG0 was rated at 180 hp from 1989 to 1992, 175 hp in 1993 and 170 hp in 1994; both the 1993 and 1994 power reductions were a direct result of the first two rounds of the Quad 4's NVH reductions; both being exhaust port size reductions. Changes that differentiate the LG0 from the LD2 engine are more aggressive camshafts and an extra half point of compression; 9.5:1 to 10.0:1. These engines were recommended to run exclusively on premium fuel with a 91 octane rating or higher due to the compression ratio.

The high output engine was introduced with both a special production run of 200 Cutlass Calais International Series coupes, as well as 200 Grand Am SE coupes — all featuring bright red paint, and gray interiors. The LG0 engine was only available with the heavy-duty Getrag designed HM-282/NVG-T550 five-speed manual transmission.

From 1989 to 2009, the Quad 4 held the title of being General Motors' most powerful naturally aspirated regular production four-cylinder engine (with the exception of the 2.9L I4 Atlas engines used in 2007-2012 Chevrolet Colorados and GMC Canyons). Only recently was the LG0's 180 bhp rating eclipsed when the 2010 model year 2392 cc Ecotec LAF was launched in the Buick Lacrosse and Chevrolet Equinox. The LAF has a rated output of 182 hp but does so with an 11.4:1 compression ratio, gasoline direct injection and variable valve timing.

There was a limited production version of the LG0 engine offered in select Oldsmobiles which used the designation "W41" (listed below).

LG0 applications:
 * 1990–1993 Chevrolet Beretta GTZ
 * 1994 Chevrolet Beretta Z26
 * 1989–1991 Pontiac Grand Am SE
 * 1990–1991 Pontiac Grand Am LE with the "sport performance package" (RPO: W32)
 * 1992–1994 Pontiac Grand Am GT
 * 1989–1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais International Series
 * 1990-1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais Quad 442
 * 1992–1994 Oldsmobile Achieva SC
 * 1990 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme International Series

W41

The W41 was the highest-output Quad 4. The 1991–1992 W41s were rated at 190 hp, while the 1993 W41 was rated at 185 hp as a result of the first round of exhaust port size reduction to improve emissions and other changes to the Quad 4 architecture to reduce NVH. The additional 10 hp came from longer duration cams and a different PROM. Part of the W41 drivetrain was a specific version of the HM-282/NVG-T550 with a gear set otherwise unavailable. All W41 five-speed transmissions had a final drive ratio (FDR) of 3.94:1 whereas the 1988–1992.5 LD2 and LG0 transmissions all used a 3.61:1 FDR; the 3.94:1 FDR was used on all 1992.5-1994 LG0 transmissions, but retained the standard HM-282/NVG-T550 gear set.

W41 applications:
 * 1991 Oldsmobile Cutlass Calais
 * 1992–1993 Oldsmobile Achieva SCX

L40
A SOHC variant of the Quad 4 was intended to replace the Pontiac 2.5 L Tech IV OHV "Iron Duke" engine. Debuting in 1992, this Quad OHC was an eight-valve engine and produced 120 hp, 40 hp less than the Quad 4 of the same era. Torque was 140 lbft. Power dropped to 115 hp in 1993 with an attempt by GM to reduce the NVH of the engine.

Although power and fuel economy were better than the Tech IV, the Quad OHC was retired after 1994 when the DOHC version became standard.

Applications:
 * 1992–1994 Oldsmobile Achieva
 * 1992–1994 Pontiac Grand Am
 * 1992–1994 Buick Skylark

LD9

The LD9 Twin Cam was a 146 cuin Quad 4 variant with balance shafts, and a redesigned cylinder head which debuted in 1996. In the mid-nineties, these engines, like their earlier 2.3L counterparts, were known for timing chain failures, as well as water pump failures, in which the water pumps were often difficult and costly to access and replace. They also had very small oil passages, making for less than adequate lubrication, and costly engine repairs if not maintained properly. Bore was decreased from 92 to 90 mm and stroke increased from 85 to 94 mm for better torque. Power came in at 150 bhp. This engine received a minor update halfway through the 1999 model year that eliminated the exhaust gas recirculation, increased the compression ratio from 9.5:1 to 9.7:1, and switched from low impedance fuel injectors to high impedance. For increased reliability this engine also saw other minor updates in the 2000s towards the end of its use in General Motors vehicles. In 2001, changes included a smaller knock sensor, flat-top pistons instead of dished, new oiling passages, newer stronger timing chain, a newer-designed water pump, a redesigned starter motor and a higher capacity catalytic converter. An improved belt tensioner was introduced in 2002.

Specifications post-1999
Applications:
 * 1996–2002 Chevrolet Cavalier Z24
 * 1996–2002 Pontiac Sunfire GT
 * 1996–2001 Pontiac Grand Am
 * 1996–1998 Oldsmobile Achieva
 * 1999–2001 Oldsmobile Alero
 * 1997–2000 Chevrolet Malibu
 * 1996–1998 Buick Skylark

Racing
Applications: Oldsmobile Aerotech

title: Quad 4 engine


text: Talk:Special Delivery (38 Special album)


text: Talk:38 Special (album)

title: Talk:38 Special (album)


text: Category:Autobiographies

title: Category:Autobiographies


text:
Talk:Federal Government of Australia

the contents of this page have been copied to the talk page of Government of Australia. Adam 07:58, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Federal Government of Australia


text:
Rockin' into the Night

Rockin' into the Night is the third studio album by the southern rock band 38 Special, released in 1979.

The title track, written by three members of Survivor, became the band's first big hit (peaking at #43 during a nine-week run on the Billboard Hot 100 singles chart), and marked the first of many songs Jim Peterik would write for and with the band.

"Money Honey" is a cover of a 1953 song by Clyde McPhatter and the Drifters.

Critical reception
The Santa Cruz Sentinel noted that parts of the album "slip into a dense, wallowing series of undistinguished rock tunes."

Track listing

 * 1) "Rockin' into the Night" (Jim Peterik, Gary Smith, Frankie Sullivan) – 3:58
 * 2) "Stone Cold Believer" (Don Barnes, Jeff Carlisi, Donnie Van Zant, Larry Junstrom) – 4:11
 * 3) "Take Me Through the Night" (Barnes, Van Zant) – 4:10
 * 4) "Money Honey" (Jesse Stone) – 3:10
 * 5) "The Love That I've Lost" (Barnes) – 4:34
 * 6) "You're the Captain" (Carlisi, Van Zant) – 4:24
 * 7) "Robin Hood" (Barnes, Carlisi) – 4:40
 * 8) "You Got the Deal" (Barnes, Van Zant) – 4:50
 * 9) "Turn It On" (Carlisi, Van Zant) – 4:34

38 Special

 * Donnie Van Zant – lead vocals (2, 3, 4, 6, 9), backing vocals
 * Don Barnes – acoustic guitars, electric guitars, lead vocals (1, 5, 8), backing vocals
 * Jeff Carlisi – electric guitars, slide guitar
 * Larry Junstrom – bass
 * Steve Brookins – drums, percussion
 * Jack Grondin – drums, percussion

Additional personnel

 * Terry Emery – acoustic piano (2, 5)
 * Billy Powell – acoustic piano (3, 4, 6, 9)
 * Dale Krantz – backing vocals

Production

 * Rodney Mills – producer, engineer
 * Greg "Fern" Quesnel – assistant engineer
 * Bob Ludwig – mastering at Masterdisk (New York City, New York)
 * Roland Young – art direction
 * Chuck Beeson – cover design concept, album design, photography
 * Michael John Bowen – cover design concept
 * Jeff Carlisi – cover design concept
 * Mark Hanauer – photography

Charts
Album – Billboard (United States)

Singles – Billboard (United States)

title: Rockin' into the Night


text:
Talk:Port Arthur, Tasmania

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 7 January 2020 and 15 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Noelamb7.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 06:59, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Earlier conversations
OK, any plans for a format--ZayZayEM 23:45, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Map
The map looks odd. I don't know why - any ideas? -- Chuq 07:18, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * It could perhaps be a tad smaller in general. The inset map of the whole of Tasmania looks decided skewed to be extra "skinny" --ZayZayEM 08:24, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Hmm, well I've shrunk it down a fair bit, hopefully it should be readable still. I'm still not exactly sure how best to do maps as a whole.  The state map looks ok to me - it might just be that there isn't much of a border around it that looks strange? -- Chuq 09:46, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * It may just be that the dimensions of the inset aren't the same as the whole image (ie. its an oblong inside a square). Did you make it yourself, could a legend/scale bar thingy be incorporated?--ZayZayEM 02:01, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Yeah I made it myself. A scale could be handy. I'll try to re-do it within the next week! -- Chuq 02:57, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Photo Copyright
Two of the photos have no copyright info. This would make getting featured article status difficult. Martyman 05:16, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I dropped a line on Mayht's talk page, but his/her last edit was July 2004, so i'm not sure on reply. We should be able to replace those photos readily enough with ones from Me and Chuq.--ZayZayEM 14:55, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Update, probably won't get my photos till post-ACOTw, dad's away this week.--ZayZayEM 04:23, 20 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I quite like the historic photo of Port Arthur at it's height available here does anyone actually understand how copyright works? Are we freely allowed to download and use this image because it is from the 1860s? Martyman 02:27, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I have a book which shows the growth of the town from 1847-1859. However i don't think its copy-safe. A 50+ year old photo doesn't count if its in a <50yo book, right? The good pics I've been seeing are from the National Library of Australia.--ZayZayEM 03:11, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * The photo iteself if it over 50 years old will be out of copyright but I am not sure about the reproduction of it that appears on the book or webpage. Anyway we aren't allowed to use the 50 years rule for wikipedia as things may still be under copyright in other more controled countries. I think the US rule is 75 or 100 years? anyone? Martyman 05:53, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * The best bet may be to contact the National Library and request the copyright status of any good photos on their website. Martyman 05:53, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

There are some more historic photos available here. ,, , etc. Might be worth contacting the State Library of Tasmania about re-using them. Martyman 06:15, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Headings
I am going to break the article up into headings, if anyone feels it should be done differently feel free to revert my changes. Martyman 00:42, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Looks good--ZayZayEM 02:02, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * The article is starting to look better now, but we actually haven't increased the content much yet. Martyman 02:22, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I spoke to soon. ;-) Martyman 03:06, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * You don't mind the title changes? Other articles seem to have "interesting" titles, I feel we should try to incorporate these into our Australian projects--ZayZayEM 03:12, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I think they look good. Martyman 03:46, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

murder punishable by death??
Some tales suggest that prisoners committed murder (an offence punishable by death)...

Is this right? Sounds rather odd! -- Chuq 02:55, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * what so odd? It could probably be worded better. Murder was punishable by death. Life at Port Arthur was so horrible, that a friend might kill someone so they could both get out quicker. The one doing the killing also got a free trip to Hobart or Sydney for his hanging as well.--ZayZayEM 03:05, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Of course.. I don't know, saying prisoners "committed murder" just sounded more like "committed suicide" rather than "murdered other prisoners".. yes, I know it *says* murder and not suicide... never mind! -- Chuq 06:58, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, actually, I'm not quite so sure who they actually murdered (inmates, guards, sailors, wenches), the point was they commited capital offences because it was an seen as an easier way out. Maybe all that church-going managed to get them off straight-out suicide.--ZayZayEM 09:44, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

In 1833 whilst diging the foundations of the church, convict Reily swung a pick axe into another convict (Suttleworth). It is belived this may have been a suicide pact. one covict murdered, one hanged. Ghostieguide 15:10, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

External Links and References
I was under the understanding that External Links and References should be seperate sections. "References" for any material that was used in the creation of the article, and "External Links" for further reading that may not have actually been used in the production of the article. Martyman 05:57, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Those weblinks were already under "references" so I felt it was best to leave them there.--ZayZayEM 09:46, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * they should be sorted out from the references creating the article, it looks like they are fairly generic links, so they really are more just other websites to see rather than true references for the article content. clarkk 10:14, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * They where under references because I put them there, because I was using them as references for the article. The official webpage for Port Arthur is not a "generic link", and can probably be asumed to be fairly authoratitive. Martyman 11:44, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

More Massacre details
I think a small reference shoudl be made to the resultant Howard ban on self-loaders. and also mention the towns resultant kinship with Dunblane.--ZayZayEM 13:58, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I have removed the reference to Martin Bryant. He does not belong in this article. I have also removed the reference to John Howard. The implemented gun-controls were widely accepted, and of little political significance. If you disagree, please discuss.--Grinning Idiot 16:04, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Once again the article protection police force is on patrol. Bryant belongs in the page about the shooting - not in the Port Arthur page itself. You should not be able to shoot your way into history. And I repeat, the name of the PM that changed the gun laws IS NOT RELEVANT! Please discuss if you disagree!--Grinning Idiot 16:20, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree with Grinning Idiot that it would be helpful to have 1996 in the title of the section about the more recent massacre, to highlight (in this article, particularly its TOC) that the event was a modern-era event, not a convict-era massacre. However, since we know the name of the gunman (and he has an article), I agree with Rebecca and see no reason not to link his name from the Port Arthur page, the same as Martin Cash is linked higher up in the history. --Scott Davis Talk 03:15, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

If he's noteworthy enough to warrant an article, he's noteworthy enough to mention here. Whether one should or should not "be able to shoot your way into history" doesn't change the fact that one can and, in his case, did. Dropped the name back into the article. MrZaius talk  20:56, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

 * You are probably right. I'm not comfortable with it.  But I guess that's history.--Grinning Idiot 13:22, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

 * On the other hand, a brief paragraph summarizing the event with a link to the main article (as is standard practice) means that if someone really wants to know the man's name, they can learn it with a simple click. Reporting it in this article isn't necessary.  I don't care either way, but I did want to point out that the alternative to posting his name here isn't problematical.  Rklawton 13:28, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

 * "if someone really wants to know the man's name" - that was my thought. But I think the consensus is keep it, and fairly strongly so.  Mr Bryant is pretty well known.  I can see the case for keeping his name here.  I don't like it nor do I have to.  I think this is done. --Grinning Idiot 13:40, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

I removed his name again today, it does not belong on the page describing the location - if people want to know about the massacre event, they can navigate to that page. Notice there is no photo of Breivik on that page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 123.2.143.195 (talk) 11:43, 13 June 2015 (UTC)

Panopticon/Pentonville
The article currently says this: It contains one of the best examples of a working panopticon based on that at Pentonville prison in London

However, the entries on both Pentonville and panopticon make explicit notes that Pentonville was not in fact a panopticon. -- 142.166.3.82 16:41, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

Penal colony
It is wrong to refer to Port Arthur as "Australia's largest penal colony". This implies that Australia has penal colonies. It doesn't.

New South Wales was a British penal colony. New South Wales was the Britain's largest penal colony in Australia, stretching all the way from Cape York to Wilson's Promontory. Tasmania was also a British penal colony.

Port Arthur was a prison settlement within the colony of Tasmania.

Amandajm 01:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110220043828/http://www.tasmaniangothic.webs.com/ to http://www.tasmaniangothic.webs.com/

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Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons files used on this page or its Wikidata item have been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 15:38, 26 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Artefacts from Port Arthur's workshop excavations.jpg
 * Port Arthur Convict Landscapes.jpg

title: Talk:Port Arthur, Tasmania