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Talk:Demographic history of Macedonia

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When was this whole region named Macedonia?
This article claims that there was a region of Macedonia that was divided into different states. This is pure ignorance. First of all, the Ottomans did not have an administrative region named Macedonia. Moreover, the treaty of Bucharest does not mention the name Macedonia anywhere. Also, the FYR Macedonia (or Republic of Macedonia if you like) bore the name Vardarska Banovina until the 40s in the 20th century. If we are to refer to ancient times the fact that Philip II conquered Paeonia (modern day Republic of Macedonia) does not mean that Paeonia was named Macedonia. Alexander reached to India, why don't you include the whole world map as region of Macedonia then? During Roman era Macedonia included parts of central Greece as well. Why don't you include the region of Thessaly in Macedonia as well? Historically, the region of Macedonia was about what the Greek Macedonia is today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geotol (talk • contribs) 20:06, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * There is a separate article called Region of Macedonia. Check it, please. Yet the first sentence states: "Macedonia is a geographical and historical region of the Balkan peninsula in southeastern Europe. Its boundaries have changed considerably over time; however, it came to be defined as the modern geographical region by the mid 19th century." The region is not related historically only with Alexander etc. The Roman province of Macedonia consisted of what is today Northern and Central Greece, much of the geographical area of the present-day Republic of Macedonia and southeast Albania. More, in the Byzantine Empire, a province under the name of Macedonia was placed in modern Thrace, etc. Please, get acquainted with the issue, before discussing it. Jingiby (talk) 06:02, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

The problem is I am very much acquainted with the subject that I consider this article misleading. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Geotol (talk • contribs) 17:15, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Aegean/Greek Macedonia -> 51%
Dear Xelet (who art mirroring my name), you are requesting sources for the fact which is one of the few things that are not in dispute. There is a unanimous acceptance from all sources that Aegean/Greek Macedonia is 51% of the geographical region. Of course, I just know that you are reverting for the sake of wikistalking, and you have being doing this to a number of users, I strongly believe that you will earn you a hard ban from all articles, not just Rajput. I hope this has been clear enough, Mr Singh. --Telex 10:23, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Macedonian Reunification
Macedonia no longer poses a threat to Europe - Alexander has been dead for over 1000 years! Wake up Europe - look at Germany. The occupiers Bulgaria and Greece need to hand back Macedonian soil so that Macedonia can become complete again. Only then will the country be able to move forward. Until then, Greece and Bulgaria are simply going to have a humanitarian problem on their doorstep that won't go away - and could simply make matters worse (destabilise region). BluePanther (talk) 05:15, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

I very much doubt that, seeing that nobody in Pirin Macedonia considers himself an ethnic Macedonian. I'd expect the same from Hellas. 212.50.65.68 (talk) 01:12, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

95% of Real Macedonia is in Greece
The Real Macedonia:

http://www.macedonia.com/english/history/regions1.html

http://www.unet.com.mk/oldmacedonianmaps/stmapi/mapa3.jpg

http://www.macedonian-heritage.gr/Maps/mapSeq_Map01.html

http://crystalinks.com/mapgreeceancient.gif

The Dardanians, Paeonians, and Illyrians are shown below, and those are the ancient inhabitants of the Fyrom area....NOT ancient Macedonians:

http://www.soros.org.mk/archive/G01/A01/as0106.htm

http://www.unet.com.mk/oldmacedonianmaps/stmapi/mapa4.jpg

69.234.160.42 04:05, 28 August 2006 (UTC)Phil Hellene

I suggest that in the body of the article, reference to the historian Eugene N Borza & his comments regarding this ethnic group also be added so as to make a clear distinction that a link between the Slav-"Macedonian's" & the ancients Macedonian's does not exist... "Modern Slavs, both Bulgarians and Macedonians, cannot establish a link with antiquity, as the Slavs entered the Balkans centuries after the demise of the ancient Macedonian kingdom. Only the most radical Slavic factions—mostly émigrés in the United States, Canada, and Australia—even attempt to establish a connection to antiquity [...] The twentieth-century development of a Macedonian ethnicity, and its recent evolution into independent statehood following the collapse of the Yugoslav state in 1991, has followed a rocky road. In order to survive the vicissitudes of Balkan history and politics, the Macedonians, who have had no history, need one. They reside in a territory once part of a famous ancient kingdom, which has borne the Macedonian name as a region ever since and was called ”Macedonia” for nearly half a century as part of Yugoslavia. And they speak a language now recognized by most linguists outside Bulgaria, Serbia, and Greece as a south Slavic language separate from Slovenian, Serbo-Croatian, and Bulgarian. Their own so-called Macedonian ethnicity had evolved for more than a century, and thus it seemed natural and appropriate for them to call the new nation “Macedonia” and to attempt to provide some cultural references to bolster ethnic survival." "Macedonia Redux", in "The Eye Expanded: life and the arts in Greco-Roman Antiquity", ed. Frances B Tichener & Richard F. Moorton, University of California Press, 1999 Some will say I am being biased but I'm not making this up or using it as a lame excuse, I am quoting a very reputable historian of which many other historians also agree with his point, such as Levinson, Brailsford & Coon (to name a few) N.Panamevris (talk) 04:14, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

No you wrong. Most, certainly, but not 95 %. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hxseek (talk • contribs) 09:16, 26 July 2007

Error- sclavinas
For some reason, this article, and the other macedonian articles wrongly state that the slavic invaders that occupied the macedonian region were 'expelled'. (likely because it is the same author)

This is simply wrong. If the slavs were expelled by the Byszantines, then there would be no Macedonians, Bulgrains and slavophone Greeks today ! Yes, many were expelled, and they were pacifieed, but MOST remained in the area, albeit under Byzantine rule

You cannot just make huge errors like that. It falsifies history

I corrected it Hxseek 09:20, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
 * And your unsourced opinions have been reverted. Please take the time while you're blocked to read WP:V, WP:RS, WP:NPOV, and WP:3RR. Thanks. --Ronz 18:00, 26 July 2007 (UTC)

Medieval history error
I would again like to highlight an error and inconsitenct in the above section.

Pertaining to the slavs " They (the slavs) invaded Macedonia and reached as far south as Thessaly and the Peloponnese, settling in isolated regions that were called by the Byzantines Sclavinias, until they got gradually eliminated by the Byzantine Emperors."

This must be a typing error, becuase it does not make sense. A great number of the sieging slavs were pacified and made to serve in the Byzantine army, but they were certainly not all expelled, as what the above paragraph makes out happened. Not only is this incorrect, but it is self contradictory- as the rest of the paragraph continues to discuss about how the slavs continued to raid with Bulgars, etc

The paragraph should be corrected. Eg the wiki article on history of Macedonia region is more correct:

"In the late 7th century Justinian II organized a massive expeditions against the Sklaviniai of the Greek peninsula, in which he reportedly captured over 110,000 Slavs and transferred them to Cappadocia. By the time of Constans II (who also organized campaigns against the Slavs), the significant number of the Slavs of Macedonia were captured and transferred to central Asia Minor where they were forced to recognize the authority of the Byzantine emperor and serve in its ranks. There are no Byzantine records of "Sklavines" after 836/837 as they were absorbed into the expanding Slavic First Bulgarian Empire. Slavic influence in the region strengthened along with the rise of this state, which incorporated parts of the region to its domain in 837 AD. "

Hxseek 22:43, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

Fringe viewpoint?
" During this period it has been claimed by Macedonian scolars that there exist large and oppressed ethnic Macedonian minorities in the region of Macedonia, located in neighboring states. Because of those claims, irredentist proposals are being made calling for the expansion of the borders of the Republic of Macedonia to encompass the territories allegedly populated with ethnic Macedonians. The population of the neighboring regions is presented as "subdued" to the propaganda of the governments of those neighbouring countries, and in need their incorporation into a United Macedonia."

This article should more explicitly state that the above idea represents the view of a FEW, FRINGE macedonian ultra-nationalists. As it is above, it is as if the whole RoM is actively preparing for invasion ! THis smells of Greek scare-mongering as if to justofy their denial of Macedonian self-sovereignity —Preceding unsigned comment added by Hxseek (talk • contribs) 01:44, 4 August 2007
 * Please back your assertions and follow WP:CIVIL and WP:TALK when doing so. Thanks! --Ronz 03:18, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

I do not have to back a claim which denies rediculous accusations Hxseek 03:57, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Not if you don't mind being ignored and possibly blocked you don't. --Ronz 04:29, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes, block me. Allow such controversial, blanket, unsourced statements like the one above to be presented as matter of fact, yet you claim I am POV and I need to back my objection to it ! ? Do you even understand what you are saying?

This is unjust, this is not academic. This is not what one would expect from 'scholars'. Shameful Hxseek 15:15, 4 August 2007 (UTC)
 * WP:CHILLOUT --Ronz 15:49, 4 August 2007 (UTC)

Yes OK. Do not offend me with your own ignorance, do try to be impartial.

I think there is an overkill with the whole irrednetism claim about Macedonians, in all these articles. While certainly worth mentioning from a historical perspective, some keep refering to it as an excuse of why RoM should not be recognised.

This is just an outdated hangover from 1950s communist era, held onto by some because they lack any real arguements. Hxseek 03:30, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

Problematic statement about Slavs in Byzantine armies
I've removed the following sentence from the section about the arrival of the Slavs:

 * Many were eliminated by the Byzantine Emperors - as many as 200,000 were made to serve in the Byzantine army in Anatolia.

This seems dubious to me - I don't doubt that Slavs were employed in the Byzantine armies; in fact, according to our existing Sclaveni article they were systematically employed as military settlers too. But the sentence insinuates that this employment was a means to exterminate them? This seems odd, without a source. I've replaced the sentence with something more neutral, for the time being. Fut.Perf. ☼ 21:09, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

I think up 200, 000 were removed, some of which then served in the army. Hxseek 11:42, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

Proposed re-format
The http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Macedonia#Slavic.2C_Bulgar_and_Avar_invasions section, hilst certainly very informative, reads a little laboured. I think it tries too cram too much info about too many things, eg Aromanians, AVaras, Tirks, Slavs. I propose that we break it down into sub sections, whilst keeping the essence of what is said intact Hxseek 02:17, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

You are all insane
Sorry but,this article is all but the text for somme encyclopedia.How is possible those shits to be placed in Wikipedia.How you can argue about history and demography of some nation?Did somebody here ask himself about origins or demography of nowadays Greeks or Bulgars.For example Greeeks are totaly artificial nation.In 1821 in Morea(Pelloponesus) 50% of population can't understand modern greek language.About Bulgarian-this term in 19 centurie mean ortodox slavic christian in Balkans.See the census from 1911 in Ottoman empire:in villaet of Kosovo-there is no Serbs but 500.000 Bulgarians.This article is pure shauvinistic propaganda against Macedonian people and I think if wikipedia want to be serious encyclopedia,then articles like this are not needed.This is pure political shauvinistic propaganda against one whole people. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.125.185.179 (talk) 14:35, 2 November 2007 (UTC)
 * This is about the Region, NOT the republic of Macedonia. Where are the stats? Kosovo was not the modern Kosovo . Скопие Skopie (Ottoman/Albanian Ushkub) was the provincial capital of Kosovo vilayet. Maqedan (talk) 07:05, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

MAQEDAN; I am very sorry but you are so mis-informed. Greeks and Greek history is written for 1,000's of years unlike the Skopian propaganda which has only been claimed since after WW2. I am a Greek Macedonian and am proud of my origins and history unlike the Slavs from FYROM who seem to be ashamed of their Slavic origins. YOU ARE NOT MACEDONIAN AND HAVE NO CONNECTION TO THE ORIGINAL MACEDONIAN PEOPLE WHO WERE A GREEK TRIBE. This is proven by the fact that in the empires of BACTRIA, PTOLEMY IN EGYPT, SELEUCID, etc there is only the GREEK language and writing, not slavic/cyrillic. As a matter of fact, these languages did not even exist at the time. After this under the Romans, the Byzantines and whatever other occupying power at the time, the language used and the people in this area were Greeks. As a matter of fact, the language which you speak today was written for you by two Greek priest Cyril & Mythodius from Thessaloniki. Yes a Greek city from times of antiquity which was first controlled by Olynthos & then by Macedonian Greeks. YOU CAN NOT CHANGE THIS FACT. I understand it is hard to identify with any other nationality because of your academics propaganda over the last 60 years but please do not insult yourself any further and grow a brain. Read as many books from as many independent writers as possible and make your own call rather than being so closed minded. 95% of the historian and writers could not possibly be wrong and all archeological items can not possibly be fabricated. As a matter of fact, i have spoken to other FYROM people who claim a conspiracy that all your ancient artifacts have been destroyed just to stop your claims. What a joke. Hellasforever (talk) 00:44, 17 June 2008 (UTC)HELLASFOREVERHellasforever (talk) 00:44, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

THE WHOLE WORLD IS INSANE - Germany was reunified after proving it was no longer a threat to Europe. When will the Republic of Macedonia be reunified? Alexander the Great has been dead for over a millenium!!! Macedonia will have been split for 100 years in 2013 - are we still scaring our neighbours?? We no longer pose a threat to Europe, so Greece and Bulgaria hand back what doesn't belong to you. BluePanther (talk) 05:05, 6 September 2008 (UTC)

"Slav" changed to "Ethnic"
Administrator, I have changed "Slav Macedonian" into "Ethnic Macedonian" since we do not identify as "Slav Macedonian." Mactruth (talk) 19:46, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

Administrator, I am also changing "Slav Macedonian" into "Ethnic Macedonian" since we do not identify as "Slav Macedonian" and due to the fact that it is very insulting. The modern nation-state is based inclusiveness without regard to tribal sentiments of ethnicity. There is a country called Macedonia and the people who live there are Macedonians. Furthermore, since evey country is a collection of different tribes, should the "Slav Macedonian" slur be restored to this page, then I will petition that all slavic country pages have like changes made, e.g. "Slav Polish", "Slav German", "Slav Russian", "Jewish Russian", "Slav Ukrainian", "Saxon Pole", etc. If this sounds ridiculous to you, then you should understand why the term "Slav Macedonian" is so ridiculous and insulting. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.60.242.218 (talk) 17:01, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

i think that in the article there is many times the term "ethnic Macedonian" in some paragraphs.i think that this is in order to convince the users of WP that there IS a ethnic Macedonian group while we want just to inform the users,not to make them believe something that is still under dispute.so,i ask the permission to correct it,or a user to do it.188.4.104.135 (talk) 18:38, 11 March 2010 (UTC)

I am going to readd the European map. The explaination was given is not reliable. Jingby (talk) 18:43, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Changed it back again. 68.41.129.87 (talk) 03:01, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

The first macedonian nationalists have appeared in the late 19th and early 20th century outside Macedonia. The early adherents of the macedonism were people inconsistent in his ideas. At different points in his life, most of them expressed conflicting statements about the ethnicity of the Slavs living in Macedonia, including his own nationality. They formed their pro-Macedonian conceptions after contacts with some panslavic circles in Serbia and Russia. The lack of diverse ethnic motivations seems to be confirmed by the fact that, in their works they often used the designations as Bulgaro-Macedonians, Macedonian Bulgarians and Macedonian Slavs in order to name their compatriots. Jingby (talk) 06:37, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

German ethnic map of Central Europe from 1932
This map can't be of 1933 since it shows Greek population in Asia Minor which expeled in 1923.

1917 Rizoff Atlas
I see that at least six of the maps appearing on this page are identical to, and possibly taken from, an atlas published in Berlin in 1917, with a preface by Rizoff. Indeed, this atlas is cited as the article's reference 5.

I have recently scanned the atlas, and made it available on the web at http://www.maproom.org/00/48/index.php. The ethnographical maps, copied from various sources, plates numbers 15-30, are of particular relevance to this article.

If anyone would like to add a link to that page, please do so. I cannot do so myself because it would break Wikipedia's guidelines. Maproom (talk) 21:05, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Also, if anyone wants an image of any of the plates in that atlas, I can upload it at a resolution suitable for Wikipedia. Maproom (talk) 10:10, 3 November 2009 (UTC)

Stanford's 1878 Ethnological map
I've seen you removed the Stanford's 1878 Ethnic composition map of the Balkans from the article. This map is of historical significance since upon that map the Congress of Berlin created Bulgaria as a state in 1878 and shaped her borders. I also noticed that you also removed it from any other article of wikipedia including the very article of the Berlin's Congress by saying that it is wrong. Wikipedia is not judging an historical document as it is a 1878 map as right or wrong, especially a map upon a treaty was determined. WP works with references, documents and facts, leaving the reader to judge for himself what is right and what is wrong. So if you have censuses that denying what the map is picturing in 1878, you have to put them into the articles, with the necessary references. Regards, --Factuarius (talk) 03:00, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

 * I agree with Factuarius. I don't doubt that the map is "wrong", all such maps are imperfect and many are biassed. But the Stanford map, in particular, is important for the influence it has had. It should be kept in the article; and if there is evidence that it is seriously inaccurate, this also should have a place in the article. Maproom (talk) 08:38, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

Jingiby
Jingiby claims "Macedonian ethnos as distinct naionality was recognized for first time by the Comintern in 1934." Oh Really?

 * 1) | The Freemanm 1921

 * 1) | Newspaper sources

 * 1) | New York legislative documents, 1921

Jingiby, it seems like all these sources are before 1934, don't you agree? And wouldn't you agree that you will ignore any evidence I show you because your views from day 1 of Wikipedia is "Macedonians are Bulgarians, communism converted them." Mactruth (talk) 07:15, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Also, most sources don't state "Macedonian Slav" do they? Mactruth (talk) 07:18, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

We need a document as official act of recognition by international political organization or independent state, and reliable secondary source, but not a cuttings from newspapers. ''Народот кој што од Новиот Завет па до К.П. Мисирков не може да наведе еден институционален процес за својот континуитет; народот кој што од Османлиската Империја никогаш не побарал да му даде посебен Македонски милет; (Власите последни во 1905 година бараат од султанот Влашки милет и тоа им е дадено); народот кој што првпат некаква институција (Коминтерната) го има признаено во 1934 година; народот кој што својата прва книга поезија на сопствен македонски јазик ја има издадено 1938 година, а својот прв роман 1951 година, одеднаш претендира да биде најстар.'' Затоа, молам за малку скромност!

Also, do not forgive that according to Encyclopedia Britannica 1911 Edition Macedonians constituted the majority of the population in the whole region of Macedonia, then part of the Ottoman Empire, but Macedonians (Bulgarians)!

Look also here: ; ; Jingby (talk)

 * Well, you have the look at the situation at the time. Bulgarians were claiming Macedonians, Greeks were claiming Macedonians, Serbs were claiming Macedonians. The point I am trying to make is it was very difficult for international bodies to comprehend what the true situation was because all claimed Macedonians, and hence a part of Macedonia. Different sources supported all claims, hence the frustration with Wikipedia (political selection of sources to fit the current boarders).

 * The point I am trying to make is there were people in Macedonia claiming to be simply Macedonian at the time when Greeks, Bulgarians, and Serbs were claiming them. There is a wealth of newspapers, books, and articles separating Bulgarians and Macedonians as distinct, many showing direct statements from the Macedonians at the time.Simply because Macedonians were sympathetic towards Bulgaria for their help does not make them Bulgarian.

 * An example would be the Polish-Lithuania empire, or the Hungarian-Austrian empire. Poles do not claim Lithuania as theirs simply because they worked together in the past, same goes with the Hungarians.

 * Do I deny there were Bulgarians in Macedonia? Of course not! Do I agree that Macedonians and Bulgarians worked as a team before ww2? Of course! But, do I agree that Macedonians = Bulgarians? No. Religion played a big part in why many Macedonians declared themselves Bulgarian. "If you are in the Greek Orthodox Church, you were Greek" was the mentality caused by the Ottoman Empire. Same goes with the other churches, and at the time the most-fulfilling church was the Bulgarian Orthodox Church, since Macedonian and Bulgarian were both Slavic. Mactruth (talk) 19:44, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

 * for example: Conquest how societies overwhelm others page 41 Mactruth (talk) 20:28, 27 September 2009 (UTC)
 * Nice. But still the article deals mostly with the time when there was no ethnic Macedonian consciousness. The term Macedonian Slavs (meaning Slavs from Macedonia, by the way) is used to denote the population from the Slav ethno-linguistic group, inhabiting the geographical region. Any nationalistic sentiments are therefore omitted by using the NPOV term Macedonian Slavs (meaning Slavs from the region of Macedonia). They are not called Bulgarians or Serbs, but not ethnic Macedonians since they did not self-identify as such. Any further disruptive behaviour might as well look nationalistic, as much as you don't like it. Thank you. --Lav e o l  T 20:54, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

 * Slav of Macedonia = Macedonian, a separate identity. I believe the documentation of ethnic Macedonian consciousness can cover a lot of the article that is currently stated as "Macedonian Slavs." Ethnic Macedonian consciousness has been documented since at least the 17th century, which covers a lot of the emergence of nationalism in Ottoman Empire:

 * Read the articles

 * Books on Macedonian Migration 1905 to 1918

 * 1793 Daniil of Moschopolis' lexicon

 * 1751 D. Ludovici Martini Kahlii

 * 1851 Visit to Belgrade

 * Australian articles 1884

 * 1822 Geographical dictionary

 * 1846 Georgi Makedonski

 * 1820 Travels

 * 1824 Brittanica

 * 1823 European Magazine

 * 1876 Revista

 * 1876 Macedonia and Macedonians

 * 1700s Russian documents

 * 1630 Fimiliar Letters

As you can see from a few of these articles, Macedonians are ALWAYS distinguished from the Greeks and Bulgarians. Also, the authors do not call the Macedonians "Slav Macedonians", but simply "Macedonians". This WP article needs to change how it names people for them Mactruth (talk) 00:06, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Kitsof (talk) 15:09, 8 September 2010 (UTC)These links do not prove anything.As you can clearly see from the wikipedia link of a page of Daniel Moscopolite's book the term βουλγάρικα,bulgarian,is used and not μακεδονικά,macedonian.The author of languages of the world translated the word βουλγάρικα,bulgarian as macedonian. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kitsof (talk • contribs) 15:07, 8 September 2010 (UTC)

I will wait for a reply considering I am "under review" from Sthenel, before editing the page. Mactruth (talk) 00:17, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
 * You mean before continuing with the disruptive behaviour. The article as it is is informative. Changing it according to your POV serves your POV only. There is a difference between Slavs in Macedonia and ethnic Macedonians, whether you like it or not. Plus, don't bombard us with nationalistic sites, we're not interested in them. Oh, an, please, spare us the ethnic (tatar) slurs. I believe you've been blocked for such behaviour before. --Lav e o l  T 00:50, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Jingiby, if you want to differentiate between the Slavs of Macedonia and ethnic Macedonians, then all you have to do is use the correct wording. We do not call ourselves Slav Macedonians, in fact we see that as an ethnic slur. It is quite entertaining that you warn me of such things, then continue to do the same. I guess the sources are all POV correct? Because they don't show Macedonians = Bulgarians, is that it? Mactruth (talk) 03:14, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

As to the ethnic slur Macedonian Slavs [sic]?!? read the section in this article, which you, I am shure, ever read: Development of the name Macedonian Slavs. I offer you, to read also another section from the same article, which you, never read, too: The missing national consciousness. Please, provide a reliable, third-party published source with a reputation for fact-checking and accuracy about the official recognition of a distinct Macedonian ethnicity from international organization or independent state before 1934. Thank you. Jingby (talk) 07:36, 28 September 2009 (UTC)

Misleading map
The shown on the right map of Pirin Macedonia presently used in the article is misleading, and I am removing it.

The errors in that region's borders that should be fixed are explained in detail in the talk page File talk:Pirin macedonia map.png. Apcbg (talk) 17:52, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

Instead of removing the map, it would be better to correct it. Or, if you do not have the tools to correct it, I can create a corrected version in accordance with your description. I have no knowledge or opinions of Pirin, but I can do what you say. Maproom (talk) 21:57, 5 October 2009 (UTC)

It would be nice if you could fix the map, just remove the three northernmost districts, and add the adjacent northeastern one; see also the map of Pirin Macedonia on the left. Best, Apcbg (talk) 19:21, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Ok, I have made the changes you requested. For reasons I don't understand, it takes some time for an edit to an image to propagate back to wikipedia pages and become effective. I am a bit hesitant about making this particular edit, it seems harmless enough, but you will be aware from some of the discussions above that maps of the Balkans can arouse strong feelings, and I don't want to offend anyone when I know nothing about the significance of the changes I am making. By the way - to indent a piece of talk like this, colons ":" work well. Maproom (talk) 21:19, 6 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Thanks, Maproom! The corrected map is now back in the article; as for the colons, I've been using them for years now :-) but they seem not to work next to an image. Apcbg (talk) 04:25, 7 October 2009 (UTC)

refimprove tag
I happened to notice the removal of the tag. This one actually makes sense because there are a several consecutive sections in this article that have either no or very few references. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 12:49, 4 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I was the one that removed it. I undid all edits from that anon since he was just spamming tags all over a ton of articles. You're welcome to add it again. --Lav e o l  T 12:55, 4 September 2010 (UTC)

Article is too long
I think you should split this article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.130.111 (talk) 14:02, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

New Articles needed for "Ethnic Controversy in Macedonia" and "Macedonism"
After seeing the Controversy Article about Linguists and Ethnicity in Moldova, and the article about Moldovanism, I think it is time to create such articles about the ethnic controversy in Macedonia and the controversies about Macedonism. When looking at both regions--Bessarabia and Macedonia, well the portion east of the Struma river, south of the Voras Mountains and west of the upper Polog valley, in short the majority Slavic inhabited area, one has a remarkable similarity in history. Both groups, the Bulgarians of Macedonia and Romanians of Bessarabia, show a history of being identified as Bulgarians and Romanians by virtually the entirety of non-interested nations up until the Balkan Wars (when for example in 1910 Russia stated that it had no Romanian minority). With regard to Serbian interest in the Region, Britannica's 11th edition says it best:

"The aims of the Servians, whose active interference in Macedonia is of comparatively recent date, have not been realized. Previously to 1878 the hopes of the Servians were centered on Bosnia, Herzegovina and the vilayet of Kossovo; but when the Berlin Treaty assigned Bosnia and Herzegovina to Austria, the national aspirations were directed to Macedonia, the Slavonic population of which was declared to be Servian." (volume 17, pp 219)

Both groups went through assimilation campaigns--the Serbianization and Hellinization of 1913-1915 and 1919-1941, just as one had the Russification of Bessarabia from 1812-1918, as well as the puppet MASSR (1924-1940) and attempts by the USSR to spread 'Moldovism' into Bessarabia from 1918-1940. One then had the full-scale Communist assaults and brainwashing campaigns of 1944-1989/91 which codified new languages, alterations and outright falsifications of history, both local and everything involving the peoples of the regions as a whole, and in both cases, the majority of this being imposed upon the native population by foreigners--i.e., Serbs and Croats in Yugoslavia, and Russians and Ukrainians in the USSR, as opposed to local Bulgarians and Romanians. There was also the quashing of resistance to these alterations by the native population in both Bessarabia/Moldova and Vardar Macedonia, while in Aegean Macedonia, especially the eastern part, there was large-scale fight and smaller population exchanges, somewhat similar to what happened to the Romanians in North Bukovina when around 28% of them were killed or deported following the Soviet invasion of 1940 (a decline of 75,752 between 1930 and 1959, out of a total of around 227,200 in 1930, with remaining in 1959, although it appears to be 1/3 deported or killed, one had 24 years of peace and population growth--10 from 1930-1940 and the other 14 from 1945-1959 for the native figure to increase), and restoration of Soviet control in 1944, although for census data, the Romanians in Transcarpahia and North Bukovina (though not north Bessarabia) were continually refereed to Romanians from 1959-1989 (100,863 in 1959, 112,141 in 1970, 121,795 in 1979 and 134,825 in 1989), as well as 146,707 in 2001, though the Bulgarians of Greece were simply refereed to 'Slavaphones'.

Then one has what can only be considered practical reasons behind such changes. Given the long borders and long history, as well as the longstanding common identity on both sides of the border for both groups, the brainwashing and historical falsifications can be interpenetrated as a safety mechanism to prevent separatist tenancies and a lack of loyalty to the new regimes, as well as a form of justification by those regimes on why they should hold the territories in question.

In short, the initial connection with rival, if not fringe claims by interested neighbors, the forced assimilation prior to WWII and the strong connection with Communism in the 'development' of these two 'ethnicities', justify the need for two articles dealing with the Madedonia issues--the controversy around 'Slavic Macedonians' and Macedonism, ideally "Controversy over linguistic and ethnic identity in the Republic of Macedonia" and "Macedonism" Prussia1231 (talk) 15:04, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

Romanian propaganda
The Romanian propaganda section is full of WP:POV, dubious and unsourced statements, of no encyclopedic value. Someone should source those assertions and they should be removed. --Codrin.B (talk) 12:11, 8 October 2012 (UTC)

Bulgarian-Greek Population Exchange
Article currently states: "After the great population exchanges of the 1920s, 380,000 Turks left Greece and 538,253 Greeks came to Macedonia from Asia Minor. After the signing of the treaty of Neuilly in 1919, Greece and Bulgaria agreed on a population exchange on the remaining Bulgarian minority in Macedonia. In the same year some 66,000 Bulgarians and other Slavophones left to Bulgaria and Serbia, while 58709 Greeks entered Greece from Bulgaria."

As far as the latter statement, "in the same year" is incorrect because all to most of those persons were actually displaced during the Balkan wars, especially 1912-13 and their displacement was merely made legal six years later by the treaty. In other words Greeks in Bulgarian (mostly Black Sea littoral in southern half of Black Sea Coast) were forcibly ethnically cleansed by Bulgarian military and paramilitary forces in 1912-13, and to some extent Bulgarians and Slavic speakers ethnically cleansed at the same time. These populations became refugees at that time. In 1919 the whole mess was just mutually legitimated and those DPs denaturalized from the respective countries where their homes had been, and naturalized in their their respective "mother countries." Bulgarian forces invading Western (Greek) Thrace during World War I, found Greek refugee settlements in Drama, Serres, Xanthi, etc of persons the same forces had displaced out of Varna, Tsarevo, etc (Black Sea Coast extreme Eastern Thrace) etc, a few year earlier, displacing them for a second time.

It was in the interest of Athens, Sofia, Belgrade and indeed the "Great Powers" to legitimate those early displacements in the name of creating ethnically homogenous states that they believed were more stable. This model was copied in the more massive population exchange that followed between Greece and Turkey a few years later.

The Exchange treaties, especially the first, Neuilly, did not so much mandate the exchanges/ethnic cleansing: To be more precise, they legitimated something that had already occurred.

Clarification of geographical area covered by this article
This article does not adequately clarify the area covered. In fact, this article seems to cover the region defined in another Wikipedia article, namely in Macedonia (region). This area was loosely established in the late 19th century and the introduction of this article (Demographic history of Macedonia) explains that, "This article is about the region spanning several countries in southeastern Europe". Therefor, I believe this gives us a queue to add after it the slightly edited for purpose introduction of the article Macedonia (region), namely:

 * Macedonia is a geographical region in southeastern Europe. Its boundaries have changed considerably over time, but nowadays the region is considered to include parts of five Balkan countries: Greece, the Republic of Macedonia, Bulgaria, Albania, Serbia (including the Gora region in Kosovo).

So the new introduction might be something like: Politis (talk) 23:50, 13 January 2014 (UTC)
 * This article is about the region of Macedonia spanning several countries in southeastern Europe. It is a geographical region in southeastern Europe. Its boundaries have changed considerably over time, but nowadays the region is considered to include parts of five Balkan countries: Greece, the Republic of Macedonia, Bulgaria, Albania, Serbia (including the Gora region in Kosovo).

 * I disagree. The article is about the demographic (not the political) history of a region. Right at the top of the article, there is a map which makes it clear what region. Which nations currently rule parts of the region is irrelevant to this article - though it can be deduced from the national frontiers shown on that map. Maproom (talk) 01:07, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

As you point out, there is a map and the article is about the demographic history of a specific region. That region has an article devoted to it and an updated introduction as suggested, would place the reader immediately. Other article that start with 'Demographic history of...', do not need any such definition since they concern specific countries. This, as far as I can tell, is the only such article dealing with a region. You might like to look a bit further into the matter? Thanks. Politis (talk) 11:30, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

OR added to induce readers to a cnclusion
I removed part of a text in this edit. The reason is simple: if we are providing data that was available at Encyclopedia Britannica, we should not add our own conclusions and original research. If Britannica says "Slavs", we put "slavs" if what Britannica published is what we are showing in the text. FkpCascais (talk) 20:50, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Laveol you reverted me again without answering here. My question is regarding this bolded part of the text:

''The 1911 edition of the Encyclopædia Britannica gave the following statistical estimates about the population of Macedonia: Slavs (described in the encyclopaedia as a "Slavonic population, the bulk of which is regarded by almost all independent sources as Bulgarians"): approximately 1,150,000, whereof, 1,000,000 Orthodox and 150,000 Muslims (called Pomaks).''

 * Are you saying that the bolded part is actually found in the original Encyclopedia Britannica edition from 1911? FkpCascais (talk) 22:54, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

 * Come on, it is not that hard to look it up. The text is in the public domain and is available on wikisource as I indicated in my edit-summary. I did not come up with it, just got curious why you removed it in the first place and decided to check if this was indeed mentioned in the encyclopaedia.--Lav e o l  T 22:57, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

 * Can you help me pointing out where exactly says that: "the bulk of which is regarded by almost all independent sources as Bulgarians" ? I gave a look and I can´t find those words in the link, but maybe I missed it. FkpCascais (talk) 04:39, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

 * No problem. It's on page 219. The paragraph dedicated to the Slavonic population. Searching for the word "bulk" might also help. I highly doubt it's mentioned more than 1-2 times. --Lav e o l  T 06:01, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

No References in Statistical Data
A friend pointed out there are no references in the main section of Statistical Data. Where did they go? Can anyone fix it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.67.100.199 (talk) 12:08, 13 December 2014 (UTC)

Independent point of view?
How could be independent point of view that says that the macedonian populationhad no ethnicity? This is absurde, this is imposible....... over 1.2 milion people without ethnicity in the begining of the 20 century? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 151.237.139.247 (talk) 17:23, 22 December 2015 (UTC)

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Diadochi Period?
Why does the history section skip from Alexander to Rome? Even if the internal demographics did not change substantially during the intervening period, the borders surely did. At one point Cassander's "Macedonia" included almost all of what is now mainland Greece (except for a small portion controlled by Epirus, along with modern Albania). Admittedly, it was the first of the major Greek kingdoms to fall to Rome, but that did not happen at Alexander's death. This seems like it warrants at least a sentence. As it stands, the article sort of implies that when Alexander died, Rome took over, which is inaccurate. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 174.105.96.42 (talk) 02:39, 20 March 2019 (UTC)

Propaganda
I like how in the Greece/20th century section there's huge emphasis only on the Greek attrocities and not the Bulgarian ones with a lot of the incidents mentioned coming from an unreliable Slavic Macedonian source.

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Eastern Question which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 18:33, 4 May 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Demographic history of Macedonia


text:
Pegram

Pegram is a surname. Notable people with the surname include:

 * George B. Pegram (1876–1958), American physicist
 * George H. Pegram (1855–1937), engineer who patented the Pegram truss for bridges
 * Henry Alfred Pegram (1862-1937), British sculptor
 * John Pegram (1773–1831), Virginia politician
 * John Pegram (general) (18i32–1865), Confederate general from Virginia

Places

 * For the locality in Idaho see Pegram, Idaho
 * For the locality in Tennessee see Pegram, Tennessee

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Pegram


text:
Category:Presque Isle County, Michigan

Articles related to Presque Isle County in the U.S. state of Michigan.

title: Category:Presque Isle County, Michigan


text:
Megan Morrone

Megan Morrone (born Megan Wells Olesky on March 15, 1973) is an American actress, technology podcaster and writer. She was the co-host of TWiT online programs Tech News Weekly, iOS Today, and Triangulation, and former host of Tech News Today, Tech News 2Night, iFive for the iPhone, Inside The Net, and Jumping Monkeys.

Career
Morrone was on-air talent, a producer, and a web producer for Tech TV, appearing on technology-related television show The Screen Savers until 2003. Reportedly, Morrone quit The Screen Savers to raise a family and write for one of Microsoft's consumer websites. She made occasional guest appearances after departing.

With Microsoft, Morrone was a writer and editor for 11 years, developing and writing for Microsoft Safety and Security Center, writing for the Security Tips & Talk blog, writing for one newsletter, and managing content for another.

She previously ran the Jumping Monkeys website devoted to her three children and to child-raising issues. She announced in February 2009 that the podcast, at one point on hiatus, would not be returning.

Following the 2004 merger of G4 and TechTV, Screen Savers host Leo Laporte created a podcast and video network called TWiT.tv. Morrone guest co-hosted Inside the Net in late 2006. From 2007 to 2008, Morrone co-hosted the Jumping Monkeys: Parenting in the Digital Age program with Laporte.

She returned to TWiT in 2015, hosting the final year of both iFive for the iPhone and Tech News 2Night, co-hosting iOS Today with Leo Laporte (2015 on), and co-hosting a relaunched Tech News Today with Jason Howell, starting in 2016. The program was reformatted in October 2017 as Tech News Weekly.

On June 28, 2019 Morrone announced she was leaving TWiT to pursue other opportunities. She worked for Medium until 2021 when she announced she would be joining Protocol, a news website owned by Capitol News Company.

Personal life
Morrone earned a BA from Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland. She currently lives in Northern California with her husband, Marco, and their three children, Annabella, Milo, and Huck.

title: Megan Morrone


text:
Fort Amherst

Fort Amherst, in Medway, South East England, was constructed in 1756 at the southern end of the Brompton lines of defence to protect the southeastern approaches to Chatham Dockyard and the River Medway against a French invasion. Fort Amherst is now open as a visitor attraction throughout the year with tours provided through the tunnel complex

History
The primary purpose of all the Medway fortifications was the defence of the Naval Dockyard. This was largely the result of the Raid on the Medway in 1667 when the Dutch fleet inflicted heavy damages on the dockyard. Defences were planned for the dockyard from 1708 and land was then acquired by two Acts of Parliament in 1708 and 1709. The land was surveyed in 1715 by the Duke of Marlborough. The first plan of defences was an enceinte (ring of fortifications), from Gun Wharf, Chatham, to north of the village of Brompton.

In 1755, the 'Prince of Wales' Bastion, 'Prince Williams Bastion', 'Kings Bastion', 'Prince Edwards Bastion', 'Prince Henry's Bastion' and the 'Prince Fredericks Bastion' were all built. These and the ditches, built during the Seven Years' War (1756–63), became known as the Chatham lines and were entered by four gateways with bridges. The fortifications were designed in 1755 by Captain John Peter Desmaretze of the Board of Ordnance and consisted of a 9 m earthwork ditch and a 3 m parapet.

In 1757, an infantry barracks (for a troop garrison) was built to man the defences.

During the American Revolutionary War (1778–83), the lines were enhanced and strengthened. The strongpoint of the design were two Redoubts - 'Amherst' (at the southern end) and 'Townsend' (at the northern end). Amherst Redoubt later became Fort Amherst. Each was equipped with 14 42-pounders, 10 9-pounders, 8 6-pounders and 2 4-pounder guns.

In 1779, during the construction, workmen found an existing foundation of a Roman building. Several finds, including pieces of Roman brick and tile, were made. Roman coins were also found, including one of the Empress Faustina, and one of the Emperor Claudius. The finds were recorded by Rev. James Douglas, working as Lt Douglas with the Royal Engineers 'North Lincs Militia, who later wrote a book describing all of his archaeological research - Nenia Britannica.

During the Napoleonic Wars (1803–15) the Chatham defences were enlarged and considerably strengthened. Further batteries were added (such as the Cornwallis Battery) and the ditches revetted (lined with brick), to the plans of General Hugh Debbrieg, chief engineer for Lord Amherst. Debbrieg had originally helped in the "Cumberland Lines" planning with Capt. Desmaretze. His plan for the Chatham lines, drawn by Joseph Heath and dated 1755, is kept at the British Museum.

Also in 1802–11, prisoners, mostly convicts from St Mary's Island, were set to work on extending the tunnels and creating vast underground stores and shelters, new magazines, barracks, gun batteries and guardrooms. More than 50 smooth-bore cannon were also mounted. The last building works were completed in about 1820. A maze of tunnels, used to move ammunition around the fort, were dug into the chalk cliffs.

A second gun battery, 'Townsend Redoubt', was built at the northeastern corner of the dockyard at the same time as Fort Amherst. Both forts were inside the 1756 brick-lined earthwork bastions known as the "Cumberland Lines", which surrounded the whole east side of the dockyard down to St Mary's Island. These have now been built over.

Fort Clarence in Rochester and Fort Pitt, on the Rochester-Chatham borders, were built in 1805–15 to protect the southern approaches.

Although the Lines were never put to the test, their design would have made a formidable defence against any invasion force.

In 1820, because of improvements in artillery equipment and greater firing ranges, the defences were declared obsolete. The entire fortified area was then used as a training-ground during the Victorian era, with practice sieges becoming so popular that they attracted thousands of visitors to Chatham. VIPs were seated on the Casemated Barracks that once stood in the Lower Lines and also on Prince William's Barracks within Fort Amherst itself.

One such siege is described in Charles Dickens Pickwick Papers. Fort Amherst has been described by English Heritage as the most complete Napoleonic fortification in Britain and as such has great national historical significance.

In 1959, the site was scheduled as an ancient monument.

The fort was still in use during the Second World War when it served as an Air Raid Warning command post. It later underwent restoration to make more areas accessible to the public. An attempt was made by the Royal Engineers, to convert the Fort into a display ground for their military vehicles, as an offshoot of the Royal Engineers Museum in Gillingham, but this was prevented by a lack of finance.

Current use

In the late 1970s a group of enthusiasts were given permission by the Ministry of Defence to start tidying up the site, with the intention of restoring the fort. In 1980 the fort was purchased from the ministry by the Fort Amherst and Lines Trust and public open days began.

Fort Amherst is now managed and operated by the Fort Amherst Heritage Trust, a Registered Charity, which opens the fort to visitors every day of the year and provides daily tours at 11am and 2pm (subject to changes). The trust have also run a programme of regular events, including ghost tours, which typically take place on the first Friday evening of each month, and over-night paranormal investigations through the tunnels. Halloween tours have also taken place, where guests make their way through the dark rooms and passages.

Some of the cannons are fired on Sundays throughout the year and periodically during school holidays.

The fort was one of the filming locations for the 1986 Warner Bros. film The Mission and the 2011 film Sherlock Holmes: A Game of Shadows as well as the 2015 BBC TV adaptation of Agatha Christie's Partners in Crime.

On Sundays, during the summer 2008 season, the fort was open to the public, without charge, to promote the Great Lines Heritage Park and the proposed World Heritage Site application for Chatham Dockyard and its Defences.

In 2012 the 200th anniversary of the establishment, under Royal Warrant of the Royal Engineers at Brompton Barracks (the Royal School of Military Engineering), was marked by a team of Royal Engineers designing, building and assembling the Bicentenary Bridge. The bridge leads to a part of the fort also known as Spur Battery and to the Inner Lines - the Napoleonic defensive ditches. These parts are accessible only at special times and during guided visits.

In 2012 the fort received about 20,000 visitors.

In 2014 the main gates to Fort Amherst were refurbished by a group of Sappers from 1 Royal School of Military Engineering Regiment as part of their Class 1 Welding trade course. This was the last Welder specific Class 1 trade course.

Fort Amherst Halloween Horrors
Fort Amherst Halloween Horrors started in 1983 as a fundraiser for Fort Amherst. It is currently the oldest scare attraction in Europe, let alone the UK and is still fully run by volunteer scare actors. It is Medway's most talked about and most attended yearly event.

In 2015 it won a Scare Award for most outstanding achievement.

It is the only scare attraction in the UK that allows live scare actors to safely touch, grab and pull the public who go to the event. This is what makes it different to other scare attractions and why visitors come from all over the country to enjoy their Halloween at Fort Amherst.

 A Ghastly Ghost Story:

The only year that the event didn't run was in 2020 due to Coronavirus Pandemic. Some of the actors were involved in a short film instead called "A Ghastly Ghost Story" which involves a group of irresponsible teens who decide to break into the abandoned Fort and some of them get cursed and don't make it out.

 After Covid-19:

The main event came back in 2021 and was described by Scare Tour owner Michael Bolton as it's "back with a bang" and "back to the level it was" Michael Bolton described it as "intense".

 Music Videos:

Apart from in 2017 and 2020, from the year 2016, Halloween Volunteers have worked with Mill Hill Media to make a series of fun music videos, released on Halloween.

 Music Videos by Fort Amherst Halloween Horrors:

2016: Don't Stop Me Now (by Queen)

2018: This Is Halloween (by Nightmare Before Christmas)

2019: Thriller (by Michael Jackson)

2021: Sweet Dreams (cover by Emily Browning)

title: Fort Amherst


text:
User talk:Chrisblore

Category:UK Wikipedians
Hi, just to let you know that the list of UK participants at the UK notice board was getting rather long, so I have replaced it with the above category which I have added to your user page. -- Francs2000 | Talk 30 June 2005 19:01 (UTC)

Put personal templates in userspace
I've moved your welcome template to User:Chrisblore/Welcome template; please create personal pages as subpages(i.e. with slashes) of your user page, not in the main namespace. If you have any quetions, let me know. Thanks! JesseW, the juggling janitor 01:48, 1 November 2005 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:Ussr090.jpg
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Greetings!
'Allo Blore! Didn't know you were a 'pedian! How's teh Exeter? Drop me a line if/when you come to So'ton (i.e. to visit Sean!) Love to ya! – DBD 22:57, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

title: User talk:Chrisblore


text:
Pelan

Pelan or Pellan can refer to:

People

 * John Pelan (1957–2021), American author, editor and publisher
 * Alfred Pellan, (1906–1988), Canadian painter

Locations

 * Pelan Township, Kittson County, Minnesota, settled in 1880 by Charles Pelan from England
 * Pelan, Minnesota, ghost town in Kittson County, Minnesota
 * Alfred-Pellan, federal electoral district in Quebec, Canada
 * Pelan, the name of the island of Patmos according to Nation of Islam

title: Pelan


text:
Jay Russell

Jay Russell (born January 10, 1960, in North Little Rock, Arkansas), is an American film director, writer and producer.

Biography
He graduated from Columbia University in 1985 with a MFA in screenwriting and directing, having studied with producer Michael Hausman and director Miloš Forman. He wrote the screenplay and served as director for his debut film, End of the Line (1987), which was a Sundance Institute project and was released by Orion Classics. In 1996 he directed two episodes of the PBS documentary mini-series Great Drives; notably interviewing Willie Morris for the episode "Highway 61: Memphis to New Orleans".

Russell returned to feature film directing with the Warner Bros. family film My Dog Skip (2000). He next directed two Disney features, Tuck Everlasting (2002) and Ladder 49 (2004). He directed The Water Horse (2007) for Columbia Pictures. For the Hallmark Channel he directed the original film One Christmas Eve (2014).

Russell served as a producer on Whole Lotta Sole (2011) and the 2015 stage adaptation of the Cornell Woolrich thriller Rear Window, starring his End of the Line and My Dog Skip (2000) collaborator Kevin Bacon.

Filmography

 * End of the Line (1987)
 * Great Drives
 * Highway 61 (1996)
 * Highway 93 (1996)
 * My Dog Skip (2000)
 * Tuck Everlasting (2002)
 * Ladder 49 (2004)
 * The Water Horse: Legend of the Deep (2007)
 * One Christmas Eve (2014)

title: Jay Russell


text:
User talk:KyanVrezpor

Welcome
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~ ~ ~. Four tildes (~ ~ ) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --John Kerry + John Edwards 2004 15:53, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * How to edit a page
 * Editing tutorial
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 * Manual of Style

title: User talk:KyanVrezpor


text:
User talk:R-Joe

Welcome
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~ ~ ~. Four tildes (~ ~ ) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --John Kerry + John Edwards 2004 15:53, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * How to edit a page
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title: User talk:R-Joe


text:
Wikipedia talk:Copyrights and Warranty Disclaimers (proposal)

Licensing

 * PS: while for once in a while the topics treated below are not about what can go "in" Wikipedia exclusively, but on other important topics that relate to copyright too, I copy-paste this to: Wikipedia talk:Copyrights and Warranty Disclaimers (proposal), and propose to continue the discussion there. --Francis Schonken 15:53, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Do I misunderstand the GFDL? I thought that the GFDL requires attribution to the author(s). Afaik, Wikipedia caters for this by having the history function. However, are not all copy&paste edits (copy from one article and paste in another) violations if the original author/article is not mentioned? Also, I've come across a number of images stating from German Wikipedia as source. This is probably true, but should there not be a link (and credit to the contributor), too?

I there a project working on image licensing? (tough on images ;-) I mean making sure images are tagged accordingly or removed? (BTW, what do you think about this source: Image:Michel-foucault.jpg?)

Summa summarum, should we not take licensing a bit more serious? Kokiri 21:25, 20 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * This is a matter of some concern to me also. The issue of other encyclopaedias "grabbing" WP content is also pertinant. They shouldn't be allowed - WP "knows" who its contributors are, and has histories, these others do not. Bah! People getting confused between "copyleft" and "copyabsent". Sue them all I say :o) zoney █ █ █  talk 00:47, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

If they link to the wikipedia article, the edit history there. So no problem. As for images - I do think people should put a link in to the image description page on the other wiki 01:12, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Yes, we should advertise this to make wikipedians more aware of the need of attribution. It is therefore also important to remember to use the edit summary to attribute to someone else when copy-pasting, for example by writing "merged from Village tap" when doing a merge, using the links-in-summary feature. [[User:Sverdrup|❝Sverdrup❞ ]] 17:27, 21 Aug 2004 (UTC)

The history information isn't exported in the cur dump, so it's really hard to get the information without downloading and parsing a multi-gig file. If Wikipedia wants individual authors credited, they should make this information more readily available. anthony (see warning) 00:28, 22 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * It does look like copying and pasting anything that is not solely one author's contribution is against the GFDL. If you export the history that should be fine, and you don't need to link to wikipedia, likewise manually attributing to the authors in the history would be ok. If, however, you copied a chunk of text from one article to another within Wikipedia, and failed to attribute it to it's author (or its constituent parts to the relevant authors) that would be a violation.

(--Francis Schonken 21:51, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC):) I just re-read the opening paragraph of copyrights, and found this as the third sentence:
 * Wikipedia content can be copied, modified, and redistributed so long as the new version grants the same freedoms to others and acknowledges the authors of the Wikipedia article used (a direct link back to the article satisfies our author credit requirement)

I want to focus on the last part of this sentence (the part I put in bold), because I have some questions about it (and this is the only discussion I found that relates to some of these questions I have myself):
 * 1) It's not only about author credit, but also about wikipedia contributors/authors being copyright holders, in the sense of how GFDL becomes "legal" by using copyright law and its terminology, am I right?
 * 2) Presently, the copyrights page gives clear instructions regarding what people have to do when they want to use content from wikipedia articles. As a GFDL requirement, and for whatever just reason that is imaginable, these same people ought to be able to find back any author that contributed to the article (unless the author deliberately obfuscated his name by using an intracable nick, or a TCP-IP number that happens to be non-traceable). From the examples given above, and from personal experience that includes some more "cases" than what is mentioned above in this section, this seems not always to be possible: what can be done about that? Anyway, I'm willing to put my energy in this when someone has clues how this issue can be tackled!
 * 3) Presently it is Wikipedia policy that someone wanting to re-use wikipedia content only has to mention "Wikipedia" as source (besides all other obligations following from GFDL). Being a fervent wikipedian myself, I can nonetheless only agree with no individual authors needing to be mentioned (which they should if GFDL is applied in all its severity), when the list of authors of that content is only one (or maximum two, say in extremis three) clicks away when opening the wikipedia URL that is prescribed for the copyright notice in that derived work and if wikipedia web-usability is such that people with few Wikipedia experience immediately find where to click to find that list. Presently this appears to be all but true. What I propose is that a section "Copyright holders" would be added to the copyrights page that in brief, but unambiguously clear & understandable terms, explains how lists of contributors can be retrieved. Is it OK that I start writing such paragraph on that page?
 * 4) Is there a list of all Wikipedia contributors? Maybe there is, but I didn't find it yet? Can someone help me on this one?


text:
International Blind Sports Federation

The International Blind Sports Federation (IBSA) is a non-profit organisation founded 1981 in Paris, France. It was formerly known as the International Blind Sports Association. IBSA's mission is to promote the full integration of blind and partially-sighted people in society through sport and to encourage people with a visual impairment to take up and practise sports. IBSA is a full and founding member of the International Paralympic Committee (IPC).

In March 2022, in light of the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine, it banned Russian and Belarusian athletes and officials from its events.

History
The International Blind Sports Association, known by the acronym 'IBSA', was formed in 1981.

The inaugural IBSA president was Paralympic runner and skier Jens Bromann (from Denmark) who served eight years, before becoming involved with the International Paralympic Committee from 1988 to 1992. IBSA was one of four organisations, later six, which formed the 'International Co-coordinating Committee Sports for the Disabled in the World' (ICC) in 1982, which on 22 September 1989 became the International Paralympic Committee, as the global governing body of the Paralympic movement.

Second president (1993 to 2001) was Enrique Sanz (from Spain), followed by Enrique Perrez (2001 to 2005; also from Spain). Fourth president Michael Barredo (from Philippines) served two terms, from 2005 to 2013. Jannie Hammershøi (from Denmark), a former Paralympic goalball athlete, commenced in September 2013 to serve three terms.

The association changed its name to federation between 2002 and 2003, when based in Spain and used the web address www.ibsa.es. The federation was later relocated and registered to Bonn, Germany. Its logo also changed at sometime from a representation of a globe, to its initials with the federation name below; in both logos, the acronym of IBSA being represented in Braille dots.

Sixth president Sandro Di Girolamo (from Italy), the president of the Italian blind sports association, commenced a four-year term from Monday 11 October 2021. The term was cut short with an extraordinary general assembly for 30 June 2023, whereupon Ilgar Rahimov (from Azerbaijan) commenced his four-year term.

Sports
IBSA is the international federation for several sports for people with a visual impairment, including three Paralympic sports (blind football, goalball and judo), powerlifting, ten-pin bowling, nine-pin bowling, torball, and showdown.

Competition is held within five regions: Africa, America, Asia, Europe, and Oceania. For the sport of goalball, competitively Asia and Oceania are drawn together as 'Asia-Pacific' region.

Sporting events
IBSA's showcase event is the IBSA World Championships and Games, held every four years. The first games took place in 1998 in Madrid, Spain, followed by the event in 2003 at Quebec City, Quebec, Canada. The third edition of the games was held in Sao Paulo, Brazil, in 2007, and the 2011 games took place in Antalya, Turkey.

In 2015, between 8 May and 18 May, the 5th IBSA World Championships and Games was held in Seoul, South Korea, and included competitions in powerlifting, judo, goalball, football, chess, tenpin bowling, tandem cycling, swimming, showdown, and athletics.

IBSA also organizes world and regional championships in many of its sports. Regional or continental championships are generally held in odd years, while world championships take place every four years in even years when there are no Paralympic Games.

IBSA World Youth Games (WYC)

 * Former name: IBSA World Youth and Student Games

title: International Blind Sports Federation


text:
User talk:0101CHANlf

Welcome
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~ ~ ~. Four tildes (~ ~ ) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --John Kerry + John Edwards 2004 15:54, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * How to edit a page
 * Editing tutorial
 * Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style

Hi. Please do not put personal messages into the article space. To communicate with other users, please use their user talk page or your own. Cheers, -- Infrogmation 17:46, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

File source problem with File:Shen Bao.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Shen Bao.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

If you have uploaded other files, consider checking that you have specified their source and tagged them, too. You can find a list of files you have uploaded by following this link. Unsourced and untagged images may be deleted one week after they have been tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If the image is copyrighted under a non-free license (per Fair use) then the image will be deleted 48 hours after 01:59, 6 September 2009 (UTC). If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you. –Drilnoth (T • C • L) 01:59, 6 September 2009 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of File:Shen Bao 2.jpg

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This bot DID NOT nominate any file(s) for deletion; please refer to the page history of each individual file for details. Thanks, FastilyBot (talk) 01:02, 19 May 2019 (UTC)

title: User talk:0101CHANlf


text:
List of stewards of the Manor of Old Shoreham

This is a list of United Kingdom Members of Parliament appointed as Steward of the Manor of Old Shoreham, a notional 'office of profit under the crown' which was formerly used to resign from the House of Commons. The last steward died in 1832.


text:
Hoo Fort

Hoo Fort is a nineteenth-century military installation on the River Medway in Kent, England, that formed part of the defences of Chatham Naval Dockyard. Hoo Fort, like Fort Darnet 1 km downstream, was built on the recommendations of the 1859 Royal Commission. It is located on Hoo Island covering Pinup Reach, the inner navigable channel of the River Medway. Hoo Island sits to the south of the Hoo Peninsula and is within the parish of Hoo, Kent. The fort can be viewed from along the Saxon Shore Way, accessible from Vicarage Lane in Hoo.

History
Originally designed for two tiers of guns mounted in a circle, with a boom strung between Hoo Fort and Fort Darnet, there were many problems with subsidence, and after extensive cost overruns the forts were completed in 1871 with a single tier of eleven 9-inch rifled muzzle-loading guns, and no boom. Each gun was mounted in an individual casemate with heavily armoured firing port.

The forts were decommissioned before the First World War. In the Second World War, the fort was used as an observation post, with platforms and pillboxes built on top. The fort is still in fair condition. It is a Scheduled Monument and is owned by Medway Ports.

title: Hoo Fort


text: User talk:82.7.64.212

title: User talk:82.7.64.212


text:
Talk:Stroke recovery

Copyright issue
Anyone know what the story is here or which section/s? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Someguycalledtom (talk • contribs) 11:26, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

I
I created this page from the stroke page but not sure it was a good idea. Better readability if stroke rehabilitation is embedded in the stroke page I think. User:Dokane

 * It depends largely on how big this article will be getting. If it stops at 200 words, we may as well merge it with cerebrovascular accident. Sometimes, the subject pertains to more articles, and in those cases a split-off is certainly warranted, but here the stroke rehab is a virtual continuation of stroke. JFW | T@lk  20:51, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Stroke rehabilitation is a huge and very important field of research in neurology and I am personally convinced that the wide variety of treatments and insights available will create a rich and dense "stroke rehabilitation" article. In addition, the "stroke" article focuses a lot on the before and the during stroke, which is essential and deserves, also, lengthy and elaborate descriptions. I can think of another reason to let "stroke rehabilitation" separately : there exists a broad range of chemical and metabolic insults that cause strokes, although a stroke is, of course, by convention, a vascular accident. You can consult Glutaric acidemia type 1 for an overview of the problem of chemical strokes. Check the work by Morton, an Albert Schweitzer laureate. Pierre-Alain Gouanvic 06:04, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

 * This is an important and growing field, especially with stem cell therapies, see sections created by Someguycalledtom (talk) 07:49, 1 May 2012 (UTC) Also, I have no idea how to create linked references (sorry am new here), could someone let me know how to do this? Thanks, Someguycalledtom (talk) 07:49, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Related article
There is a little information at brain healing that might (or might not) overlap with this article. WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:54, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Constraint-induced movement therapy
The article says that this approach was invented by someone called Oden (1918). I'm sorry but I've never heard of this guy. Are there some references? I can't believe this is correct. I thought this was the work of Edward Taub and co. --Falott (talk) 20:25, 2 October 2009 (UTC)(talk) 20:24, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

Removal of copypaste tag
I've removed the copypaste tag (and added cv-unsure above). Most of the major revisions to this article were added by User:Sredgley who claims to be a specialist in this field (a simple google confirms that someone by this name is indeed such a specialist). As such I suspect these additions have been added by a knowledgable academic hence the reason they look like they've been copied from somewhere, however I could find no such source. Given that and the style it was introduced (with references etc) I think it's unlikely to be a copyvio.

User:Pierre-Alain Gouanvic intoduced significant amounts of text in July 2007 but this has already been reverted as a possible copyvio. As this has been removed I think it's unlikely that there is now any copyvio. Dpmuk (talk) 12:10, 24 February 2011 (UTC)

Acupuncture on Stroke Recovery
Some people said that acupuncture is effective in the recovery after a stroke, how true is this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 60.49.220.170 (talk • contribs) 06:37, 25 October 2011
 * The article Acupuncture lists the things acupuncture is proven to improve in some cases. Only two things have reliable evidence, some types of pain and nausea, and only for some people, and the effect is not long-lasting. --Anthonyhcole (talk) 09:28, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

Feedback?
Would like to get feedback on my first contribution to Wikipedia, the current section three, "stem cell therapies (in research)". Someguycalledtom (talk) 11:24, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Queen's University Student Editing Initiative
Hello, we are group of medical students from Queen's University in Canada. We are working to improve this article over the next month or so, and will be posting planned changes to the talk page. We look forward to working with the existing Wikipedia community to improve this article and share evidence. We welcome feedback and suggestions as we learn how to edit. Thank you!

We propose the following changes:

1) Change "Shoulder Sublaxation Following Stroke" Heading to "Hemiplegic Shoulder Pain Following Stroke"

2)Add a section outlining the etiology of hemiplegic shoulder pain: Hemiplegic shoulder pain (shoulder pain on the stroke-affected side of the body) is a common source of pain and dysfunction following stroke. The etiology of hemiplegic shoulder pain remains unclear, however, some possible causes may include shoulder subluxation, muscle contractures, spasticity, rotator cuff disorders or impingement, and complex regional pain syndrome.  Overall, the shoulder is very mobile, and relies on muscles and ligaments to support it, therefore, if a stroke damages the neurons that control those muscles and ligaments, the whole joint will be affected and pain may result.

3) Add a section under hemiplegic shoulder pain following stroke > Pharmacological Therapies: Analgesics (ibuprofen and acetaminophen) may offer some pain relief for generalized hemiplegic shoulder pain. For people with spasticity associated shoulder pain, botulinum toxin injections into the shoulder muscles has also been shown to provide significant pain relief and improve range of motion. Subacromial corticosteroid injections can be effective for people with shoulder pain related to injury/inflammation of the rotator cuff region.

4) Treatment for post-stroke hemiplegic shoulder pain There are several non-pharmacological interventions which are recommended for prevention and treatment of post-stroke hemiplegic shoulder pain, including proper positioning, range of motion exercises, motor retraining, and adjuvant therapies like neuromuscular electric stimulation (NMES) (e.g. functional electric stimulation (FES)). The use of slings remains controversial.

Functional electric stimulation FES is a NMES technique where nerves or muscles affected by stroke receive bursts of low-level electrical current. The goal of FES is to strengthen muscle contraction and improve motor control. It may be effective in reducing subluxation and the pain associated with subluxation.

Slings Different slings are available to manage shoulder subluxation. However, the use of slings remains controversial and may increase the risk of adverse effects on symmetry and balance between the left and right shoulders, and can impact peoples’ body image.

BucksteinJ (talk) 18:17, 1 October 2018 (UTC)

Comments for the whole group:

 * These comments apply to most of the suggestions, so I will put them down here:
 * Thanks for sharing your suggested changes. I have a few notes, but I think your work looks great.
 * Please include the page #s from where you found the information in the text book if they are available
 * Same for ref 2 text book, you added in the chapter. Can you add these with the DOI tool that was taught in class? Citations go immediately after the punctuation in Wikipedia like this.1 The DOI tool will do all this, you just need to click after the period (or comma) and then click "cite" above. See WP:MEDHOW or feel free to send me a note if you have any questions or need assistance.
 * Can you find some wikilinks for some of these terms? I also think that you can add more common english terms. For example: etiology, adjuvant, etc.
 * Adjust the use of the word patients-->people which is how Wikipedia refers to people/patients.
 * Thanks again, JenOttawa (talk) 14:50, 6 November 2018 (UTC)

Constraint-induced movement therapy
The article mentions that the development of CI therapy is the work of Dr. Oden. I believe that it is the work of Dr. Edward Tuab. — Preceding unsigned comment added by DanielJanko (talk • contribs) 00:42, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Reference 30 is now a retracted article
Reference 30 at the time of writting was "Jiang Y, Jahagirdar BN, Reinhardt RL, Schwartz RE, Keene CD, Ortiz-Gonzalez XR, et al. (July 2002). "Pluripotency of mesenchymal stem cells derived from adult marrow". Nature. 418 (6893): 41–9. Bibcode:2002Natur.418...41J. doi:10.1038/nature00870. PMID 12077603. S2CID 47162269.".

See https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-024-07653-0 -- Egon Willighagen (talk) 15:33, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Stroke recovery


text:
Fort Darnet

Fort Darnet, is a nineteenth-century military installation on the River Medway in Kent, England, that formed part of the defences of Chatham Naval Dockyard. Fort Darnet, like its twin Hoo Fort 1 km upstream, was built on the recommendations of the 1859 Royal Commission on an island covering Pinup Reach, the inner navigable channel of the River Medway.

Building started on the island in 1870 and then finished in 1872. Originally designed for two tiers of guns mounted in a circle, with a boom strung between them, there were many problems with subsidence, and after extensive cost overruns the forts were completed in 1872 with one tier, and 11 guns : a mixture of 8 9-inch and 3 7-inch rifled muzzle-loaders. The boom was not implemented though there were plans to mine the channel if thought needed. It was originally designed for a garrison of up to 100 men.

The fort was used for gunnery practice until one of the guns cracked in its casemate, as reported in ‘The Chatham Observer’ on 25 January 1879.

The forts were never used in anger, and were decommissioned before the First World War. In the Second World War the fort was used as an observation post, with platforms and pillboxes built on top. The fort is still in fair condition, however the magazine level is flooded. The island can be freely visited by boat, though the landing is muddy.

Up to the 1980s, the island was used for picnicking and other leisure pursuits.

It is scheduled under the Ancient Monuments and Archaeological Areas Act 1979.

title: Fort Darnet


text:
Talk:Ventricular fibrillation

Untitled
This was a dump from my thesis and needs some major editing which i hope to do soon. I also need or someone else may like to do a more detailed discussion of the drug management of VF Dokane 15:59, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Great job! Recently I have contributed a similar (though smaller) project about immunosuppressive drugs and am sure that it took you a couple of hours to put it up. I see that you're no longer active on Wikipedia. What a pity! --Eleassar777 20:17, 4 May 2005 (UTC)

Yeah, Declan was only around briefly. I have his email address if you need to make any comments on the material. JFW | T@lk  22:38, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

What does this have to do with the “Western” world? Do people not die of this in large numbers outside of this sociopolitical construct? Your article even mentions its’ origins in Egypt, which has never been part of the “West”. GJK 21:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Although what is written is extensive, I am not sure if it is not too technical for laypeople. --Eleassar777 10:16, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

No. I am a lay person in these matters, and I feel the technical level is just right!--Light current 23:52, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Wow...there's certainly a lot of words here...and a lot that can be gutted. Does detailing how to compute a Fourier Transform really belong in an article about ventricular fibrillation? I think the single sentence "Analysis of the fibrillation waveform is performed using a mathematical technique known as Fourier analysis" is just fine, where readers can click on fourier analysis for more information.--Perlman10s 21:44, 23 June 2005 (UTC)

 * I agree completely. Many things should be removed. -- Eleassar [[Image:Slovenia flag 300.png|20px]] my talk 10:54, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

"few seconds"
What evidence is there for the "few seconds" claim in the first paragraph. I know of a case where the VF continued for > 10 min. without causing death.

70.224.37.115 (talk) 02:06, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

My daughter survived 30 minutes of V-fib 3 days ago. Brain ultrasound came back negative. She's awake and responsive. If you want more info, her health update page is GodsLittleLamb.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.65.169.97 (talk) 00:13, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

Lead para
Maybe slightly more(not much) is needed in lead para ( moved form intro para.)--Light current 23:51, 4 November 2005 (UTC)
 * User 68.184.84.240 modified the lead section at 23.17, 22 June 2007 to include the words "and tachycardia may result". This is quite incorrect and I suspect the writer was referring to ventricular tachycardia resulting from atrial fibrillation; thus I have deleted the words.Geoffrey Wickham 02:39, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Symptoms
I think this article could really benefit from some clear description of symptoms. -- Hinotori(talk) 12:44, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

VF has no symptoms - only cardiac arrest (i.e. death) Splat2million —Preceding comment was added at 16:37, 14 June 2008 (UTC)

Added precordial thump
This I think is an important procedure that can reverse VF if done properly that people should be aware of. It has the potential for saving lives, not unlike the Heimlich maneuver. 67.185.99.246 01:08, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Cleanup
I think the sections: need a bit more context, maybe they should be integrated into mechanism or something, they just seem a little out of place. cyclosarin (talk) 01:55, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
 * 1) 6 Re-entry
 * 2) 7 Abnormal automaticity
 * 3) 8 Triggered activity

ECG CHARACTERISTICS
WHERE IS THE ECG CHARACTERISTICS AT??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.106.153.176 (talk) 18:03, 6 August 2008 (UTC)

EKG Images
In regard to the two EKG images shown, Lead II rhythm generated ventricular fibrilation VF.JPG, and EKG VF.jpg, I'd like to suggest a new image example be found. My suggestion is one of comparison, between what normal ventricular activity should look like, and what ventricular fibrillation looks like. There's nothing wrong with the images shown that I'm aware of, but I think it would help those who, like myself, are unfamiliar with this subject. Christopher, Salem, OR (talk) 10:43, 25 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Agree, I am really surprised the article lacks a comparison of EKG of a normal heart and fibrillating heart. --ChetvornoTALK 11:08, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Intro
Edited image shown at Basic Life Support, had no relation to anything there.Smlbstcbr (talk) 15:00, 25 December 2010 (UTC)

Temperature of 5 minutes?
From the intro: "If the patient is revived after a sufficient period (at a room temperature of roughly 5 minutes)" Needs rewriting.

title: Talk:Ventricular fibrillation


text:
Talk:Odissi

[Untitled]
{{please undo my changes and update/remove the relavent categories to the article -- Amartyabag   {{sup|TALK2ME}}  02:48, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Modern themes in Odissi
Initially, Odissi dancers used ancient Odia songs as the basis for their abhinaya numbers. The Gitagovinda of Jayadeva had become a favourite with Odissi dancers, because, historically, temple dancers danced to the songs in the Gitagovinda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by St. sisamar (talk • contribs) 13:43, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Alphabetical order of names
Anybody familiar with English grammar would know that if you should choose to list names alphabetically, the rule is to list them by surnames. May I ask the editor why she or he is choosing to list them using first names? That is normally not the practice.

'''Also, the level of discourse in here is often rather odious and reprehensible. The original editor has done a good job, and it is alarming to see him/her under repeated, vituperative attack.''' Priyadarshini22 (talk) 19:50, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

 * That's the norm, subject to the geographic area and popularity of usage. No hard and fast rule applies here but conventions are always there i.e. people are popularly known by their first names like Guru Deba Prasad or Guru Pankaj Charan and not Guru Das. From the view point of an article, you certainly make a good point.

 * Not really. Priyadarshini22 (talk) 07:59, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

 * If you would have noted, leaving apart Guru Kelucharan Mohapatra, Guru Pankaj Charan Das, Guru Deba Prasad Das and Guru Raghunath Dutta, who were the original quartet of major gurus, their names were left as-is and the others had been alphabetically arranged. Once I have some time I will expend some time to rearrange based on telephone-directory basis.

 * on telephone-directory basis??? That's clunky English. In fact, many sections of this page are rife with remarkably poor English. Priyadarshini22 (talk) 07:59, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

 * In that particular section... Odissi renaissance ... all the people listed are remarkable Gurus. I could not decipher the logic behind only prefixing the title of "Guru" for only males. All of them are Gurus (male and female both) of high caliber and the title is implicit in this particular context.

 * In that particular section... Odissi renaissance ... all the people
 * corrected: In that particular section -- the Odissi renaissance -- all the people.... Priyadarshini22 (talk) 07:59, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

 * Guru Mayadhar Raut already existed in the list. You have tried to insert the Guru Mayadhar (as a new insertion) within the foremost quartet but missed out on removing the existing occurrence.

 * Everyone has a right to an opinion. I will leave it at that. Thanks.
 * --Karan1974 (talk) 23:04, 29 September 2011 (UTC)

 * Not if it is historically inaccurate. That would generate anarchy. Priyadarshini22 (talk) 07:59, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

 * Is this your full time job? Editing the Wikipedia Odissi page? It would certainly appear so, given the amount of time you spend on it. Are you an art critic, or a dance critic, or a dance historian/scholar? Good luck! Priyadarshini22 (talk) 11:22, 2 October 2011 (UTC)Priyadarshini22 (talk) 07:59, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

 * Not surprised... Only Questions but NO Answers... you question about English grammar and usage, and have a pretty hard time of forming even a simple sentence correctly (more specifically note the flowery sentence which you stressed in bold now and in this communication- grammatically correct ???). The way you edit wiki comments is really something of a piece of art.... interspersing your writing with my writings... what a freaking mess to understand what the thought process was from other contributors... who now have to read between the lines literally. Also you love to go back and correct out the previous writings which literally means going through the versions. Do you have a hard time getting your thoughts straight ? Odious... sure it is now.

 * Anarchy ? Please provide the sources of your thoughts regarding Guru Mayadhar Rout ? Factual info prevails. What is sequencing of names based on last-name called if not arrangement as per telephone-directory basis for us mere mortals? Clunky English ? Sure.

 * What is this ?..... care to explain.... In that particular section... Odissi renaissance ... all the people corrected: In that particular section -- the Odissi renaissance -- all the people.... Priyadarshini22 (talk) 07:59, 2 October 2011 (UTC).... The same change as last time ??? Puzzling !!!

 * Full time job ? Well you have formed your opinion. So do you have what it takes in you to treat this as a full time job ? Are you an art critic, or a dance critic, or a dance historian/scholar, or a dancer/ musician in this Odissi Dance ? If you feel you are any of those or even all of these, what makes you qualified enough to feel so ? Other questions to follow if I get these answers. And if you decide to respond please do so at the bottom of this and sign it... Good luck!
 * --Karan1974 (talk) 17:34, 2 October 2011 (UTC)

Devanagari script
I am not getting use of Devanagari script with Odissi name.What it has to do with Odissi dance?Neither Odissi originated nor linked historically to any of Devanagari spoken regions.so I deleted the name in Devanagari.If anybody thinks I am wrong then let me know how it is justified. diptiprakashpalai  —Preceding undated comment added 04:18, 11 June 2013 (UTC)

List of performers
Culled per WP:NLIST and WP:Source list. Any additions should have their own article or be accompanied by independent sources attesting to their importance in the field. --Neil N  talk to me 15:16, 1 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Hi NeilN, agree with changes, however people listed are notable in this area, it is just that people have not been able to create the wiki articles for them. Also adding the external references for each of them is going to really clutter up the page and the longest section being the "References" section. Based on this, I would request you to please suggest what should be done? Thanks, --Karan1974 (talk) 16:59, 1 October 2015 (UTC)

File:Odissi Performance DS.jpg to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Odissi Performance DS.jpg will be appearing as picture of the day on October 10, 2016. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2016-10-10. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 23:39, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

I loved how they told information deeply 😃😃
Absolutely love it ❣ 103.198.165.94 (talk) 08:37, 17 November 2021 (UTC)

Battu
Battu odissi dance 2405:201:8023:481E:E1AA:AB6C:DFCE:16D3 (talk) 16:41, 6 September 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Odissi