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Oxygen sensor

An oxygen sensor (or lambda sensor, where lambda refers to air–fuel equivalence ratio, usually denoted by λ) or probe or sond, is an electronic device that measures the proportion of oxygen (O2) in the gas or liquid being analyzed.

It was developed by Robert Bosch GmbH during the late 1960s under the supervision of Günter Bauman. The original sensing element is made with a thimble-shaped zirconia ceramic coated on both the exhaust and reference sides with a thin layer of platinum and comes in both heated and unheated forms. The planar-style sensor entered the market in 1990 and significantly reduced the mass of the ceramic sensing element, as well as incorporating the heater within the ceramic structure. This resulted in a sensor that started sooner and responded faster.

The most common application is to measure the exhaust-gas concentration of oxygen for internal combustion engines in automobiles and other vehicles in order to calculate and, if required, dynamically adjust the air-fuel ratio so that catalytic converters can work optimally, and also determine whether the converter is performing properly or not. An oxygen sensor will typically generate up to about 0.9 volts when the fuel mixture is rich and there is little unburned oxygen in the exhaust.

Scientists use oxygen sensors to measure respiration or production of oxygen and use a different approach. Oxygen sensors are used in oxygen analyzers, which find extensive use in medical applications such as anesthesia monitors, respirators and oxygen concentrators.

Divers use oxygen sensors (and often call them ppO2 sensors) to measure the partial pressure of oxygen in their breathing gas. Open circuit scuba divers test the gas before diving as the mixture remains unchanged during the dive and partial pressure changes due to pressure are simply predictable, while mixed gas rebreather divers must monitor the partial pressure of oxygen in the breathing loop throughout the dive, as it changes and must be controlled to stay within acceptable bounds.

Oxygen sensors are also used in hypoxic air fire prevention systems to continuously monitor the oxygen concentration inside the protected volumes.

There are many different ways of measuring oxygen. These include technologies such as zirconia, electrochemical (also known as galvanic), infrared, ultrasonic, paramagnetic, and very recently, laser methods.

Automotive applications
Automotive oxygen sensors, colloquially known as O2 ("ō two") sensors, make modern electronic fuel injection and emission control possible. They help determine, in real time, whether the air–fuel ratio of a combustion engine is rich or lean. Since oxygen sensors are located in the exhaust stream, they do not directly measure the air or the fuel entering the engine, but when information from oxygen sensors is coupled with information from other sources, it can be used to indirectly determine the air–fuel ratio. Closed-loop feedback-controlled fuel injection varies the fuel injector output according to real-time sensor data rather than operating with a predetermined (open-loop) fuel map. In addition to enabling electronic fuel injection to work efficiently, this emissions control technique can reduce the amounts of both unburnt fuel and oxides of nitrogen entering the atmosphere. Unburnt fuel is pollution in the form of air-borne hydrocarbons, while oxides of nitrogen (NOx gases) are a result of combustion chamber temperatures exceeding 1300 kelvins, due to excess air in the fuel mixture thereby contributing to smog and acid rain. Volvo was the first automobile manufacturer to employ this technology in the late 1970s, along with the three-way catalyst used in the catalytic converter.

The sensor does not actually measure oxygen concentration, but rather the difference between the amount of oxygen in the exhaust gas and the amount of oxygen in the air. Rich mixture causes an oxygen demand. This demand causes the voltage output to rise, due to transportation of oxygen ions through the sensor layer. Lean mixture causes low voltage, since there is an oxygen excess.

Modern spark-ignited combustion engines use oxygen sensors and catalytic converters in order to reduce exhaust emissions. Information on oxygen concentration is sent to the engine management computer or engine control unit (ECU), which adjusts the amount of fuel injected into the engine to compensate for excess air or excess fuel. The ECU attempts to maintain, on average, a certain air-fuel ratio by interpreting the information gained from the oxygen sensor. The primary goal is a compromise between power, fuel economy, and emissions, and in most cases is achieved by an air–fuel ratio close to stoichiometric. For spark-ignition engines (such as those that burn gasoline or autogas / liquefied petroleum gas (LPG), as opposed to diesel), the three types of emissions modern systems are concerned with are: hydrocarbons (which are released when the fuel is not burnt completely, such as when misfiring or running rich), carbon monoxide (which is the result of running slightly rich) and NOx (which dominate when the mixture is lean). Failure of these sensors, either through normal aging, the use of leaded fuels, or fuel contaminated with silicones or silicates, for example, can lead to damage of an automobile's catalytic converter and expensive repairs.

Tampering with or modifying the signal that the oxygen sensor sends to the engine computer can be detrimental to emissions control and can even damage the vehicle. When the engine is under low-load conditions (such as when accelerating very gently or maintaining a constant speed), it is operating in "closed-loop mode". This refers to a feedback loop between the ECU and the oxygen sensor(s) in which the ECU adjusts the quantity of fuel and expects to see a resulting change in the response of the oxygen sensor. This loop forces the engine to operate both slightly lean and slightly rich on successive loops, as it attempts to maintain a mostly stoichiometric ratio on average. If modifications cause the engine to run moderately lean, there will be a slight increase in fuel efficiency, sometimes at the expense of increased NOx emissions, much higher exhaust gas temperatures, and sometimes a slight increase in power that can quickly turn into misfires and a drastic loss of power, as well as potential engine and catalytic-converter (due to the misfires) damage, at ultra-lean air–fuel ratios. If modifications cause the engine to run rich, then there will be a slight increase in power to a point (after which the engine starts flooding from too much unburned fuel), but at the cost of decreased fuel efficiency, and an increase in unburned hydrocarbons in the exhaust, which causes overheating of the catalytic converter. Prolonged operation at rich mixtures can cause catastrophic failure of the catalytic converter (see backfire). The ECU also controls the spark engine timing along with the fuel-injector pulse width, so modifications that cause the engine to operate either too lean or too rich may result in inefficient fuel consumption whenever fuel is ignited too soon or too late in the combustion cycle.

When an internal combustion engine is under high load (e.g. wide open throttle), the output of the oxygen sensor is ignored, and the ECU automatically enriches the mixture to protect the engine, as misfires under load are much more likely to cause damage. This is referred to as an engine running in "open-loop mode". Any changes in the sensor output will be ignored in this state. In many cars (with the exception of some turbocharged models), inputs from the air flow meter are also ignored, as they might otherwise lower engine performance due to the mixture being too rich or too lean, and increase the risk of engine damage due to detonation if the mixture is too lean.

Function of an O2 sensor
O2 sensors provide feedback to an engine computer (ECU). Where applicable, gasoline, propane, and natural gas engines are fitted with three-way catalysts to comply with on road vehicle emissions legislation. Using the O2 sensor signal, the ECU can operate the engine with an air–fuel ratio very close to 14.7:1, which is the ideal operating mixture for a three way catalyst to be effective. Robert Bosch GmbH introduced the first automotive lambda sensor in 1976, and it was first used by Volvo and Saab in that year. The sensors were introduced in the US from about 1979 and were required on all models of cars in many countries in Europe in 1993.

The probe
The sensor element is a ceramic cylinder plated inside and outside with porous platinum electrodes; the whole assembly is protected by a metal gauze. It operates by measuring the difference in oxygen between the exhaust gas and the external air and generates a voltage or changes its resistance depending on the difference between the two.

The sensors only begin to work effectively when heated to approximately 316 °C (600 °F), so most newer lambda probes have heating elements encased in the ceramic that bring the ceramic tip up to temperature quickly. Older probes, without heating elements, would eventually be heated by the exhaust, but there is a time lag between when the engine is started and when the components in the exhaust system come to a thermal equilibrium. The length of time required for the exhaust gases to bring the probe to temperature depends on the temperature of the ambient air and the geometry of the exhaust system. Without a heater, the process may take several minutes. There are pollution problems that are attributed to this slow start-up process, including a similar problem with the working temperature of a catalytic converter.

The probe typically has four wires attached to it: two for the lambda output, and two for the heater power, although some automakers use the metal case as ground for the sensor element signal, resulting in three wires. Earlier non-electrically-heated sensors had one or two wires.

Zirconia sensor
The zirconium dioxide, or zirconia, lambda sensor is based on a solid-state electrochemical fuel cell called the Nernst cell. Its two electrodes provide an output voltage corresponding to the quantity of oxygen in the exhaust relative to that in the atmosphere.

An output voltage of 0.2 V (200 mV) DC represents a "lean mixture" of fuel and oxygen, where the amount of oxygen entering the cylinder is sufficient to fully oxidize the carbon monoxide (CO), produced in burning the air and fuel, into carbon dioxide (CO2). An output voltage of 0.8 V (800 mV) DC represents a "rich mixture", which is high in unburned fuel and low in remaining oxygen. The ideal setpoint is approximately 0.45 V (450 mV) DC. This is where the quantities of air and fuel are in the optimal ratio, which is ~0.5% lean of the stoichiometric point, such that the exhaust output contains minimal carbon monoxide.

The voltage produced by the sensor is nonlinear with respect to oxygen concentration. The sensor is most sensitive near the stoichiometric point (where λ = 1) and less sensitive when either very lean or very rich.

The ECU is a control system that uses feedback from the sensor to adjust the fuel/air mixture. As in all control systems, the time constant of the sensor is important; the ability of the ECU to control the fuel–air ratio depends upon the response time of the sensor. An aging or fouled sensor tends to have a slower response time, which can degrade system performance. The shorter the time period, the higher the so-called "cross count" and the more responsive the system.

The sensor has a rugged stainless-steel construction internally and externally. Due to this the sensor has a high resistance to corrosion, allowing it to be used effectively in aggressive environments with high temperature/pressure.

The zirconia sensor is of the "narrow-band" type, referring to the narrow range of fuel/air ratios to which it responds.

Wideband zirconia sensor
A variation on the zirconia sensor, called the "wideband" sensor, was introduced by NTK in 1992 and has been widely used for car engine management systems in order to meet the ever-increasing demands for better fuel economy, lower emissions and better engine performance at the same time. It is based on a planar zirconia element, but also incorporates an electrochemical gas pump. An electronic circuit containing a feedback loop controls the gas-pump current to keep the output of the electrochemical cell constant, so that the pump current directly indicates the oxygen content of the exhaust gas. This sensor eliminates the lean–rich cycling inherent in narrow-band sensors, allowing the control unit to adjust the fuel delivery and ignition timing of the engine much more rapidly. In the automotive industry this sensor is also called a UEGO (universal exhaust-gas oxygen) sensor. UEGO sensors are also commonly used in aftermarket dyno tuning and high-performance driver air–fuel display equipment. The wideband zirconia sensor is used in stratified fuel injection systems and can now also be used in diesel engines to satisfy the upcoming EURO and ULEV emission limits.

Wideband sensors have three elements:
 * 1) ion oxygen pump,
 * 2) narrowband zirconia sensor,
 * 3) heating element.

The wiring diagram for the wideband sensor typically has six wires:
 * 1) resistive heating element,
 * 2) resistive heating element,
 * 3) sensor,
 * 4) pump,
 * 5) calibration resistor,
 * 6) common.

Titania sensor
A less common type of narrow-band lambda sensor has a ceramic element made of titania (titanium dioxide). This type does not generate its own voltage, but changes its electrical resistance in response to the oxygen concentration. The resistance of the titania is a function of the oxygen partial pressure and the temperature. Therefore, some sensors are used with a gas-temperature sensor to compensate for the resistance change due to temperature. The resistance value at any temperature is about 1/1000 the change in oxygen concentration. Luckily, at λ = 1, there is a large change of oxygen, so the resistance change is typically 1000 times between rich and lean, depending on the temperature.

As titania is an N-type semiconductor with a structure TiO2−x, the x defects in the crystal lattice conduct the charge. So, for fuel-rich exhaust (lower oxygen concentration) the resistance is low, and for fuel-lean exhaust (higher oxygen concentration) the resistance is high. The control unit feeds the sensor with a small electric current and measures the resulting voltage drop across the sensor, which varies from nearly 0 volts to about 5 volts. Like the zirconia sensor, this type is nonlinear, such that it is sometimes simplistically described as a binary indicator, reading either "rich" or "lean". Titania sensors are more expensive than zirconia sensors, but they also respond faster.

In automotive applications the titania sensor, unlike the zirconia sensor, does not require a reference sample of atmospheric air to operate properly. This makes the sensor assembly easier to design against water contamination. While most automotive sensors are submersible, zirconia-based sensors require a very small supply of reference air from the atmosphere. In theory, the sensor wire harness and connector are sealed. Air that leaches through the wire harness to the sensor is assumed to come from an open point in the harness – usually the ECU, which is housed in an enclosed space like the trunk or vehicle interior.

Location of the probe in a system
The probe is typically screwed into a threaded hole in the exhaust system, located after the branch manifold of the exhaust system combines and before the catalytic converter. New vehicles are required to have a sensor before and after the exhaust catalyst to meet U.S. regulations requiring that all emissions components be monitored for failure. Pre- and post-catalyst signals are monitored to determine catalyst efficiency, and if the converter is not performing as expected, an alert gets reported to the user through on-board diagnostics systems by, for example, lighting up an indicator in the vehicle's dashboard. Additionally, some catalyst systems require brief cycles of lean (oxygen-containing) gas to load the catalyst and promote additional oxidation reduction of undesirable exhaust components.

Sensor surveillance
The air–fuel ratio and naturally, the status of the sensor, can be monitored by means of using an air–fuel ratio meter that displays the output voltage of the sensor.

Sensor failures
Normally, the lifetime of an unheated sensor is about 30,000 to 50,000 miles (50,000 to 80,000 km). Heated sensor lifetime is typically 100,000 miles (160,000 km). Failure of an unheated sensor is usually caused by the buildup of soot on the ceramic element, which lengthens its response time and may cause total loss of ability to sense oxygen. For heated sensors, normal deposits are burned off during operation, and failure occurs due to catalyst depletion. The probe then tends to report lean mixture, the ECU enriches the mixture, the exhaust gets rich with carbon monoxide and hydrocarbons, and the fuel economy worsens.

Leaded gasoline contaminates the oxygen sensors and catalytic converters. Most oxygen sensors are rated for some service life in the presence of leaded gasoline, but sensor life will be shortened to as little as 15000 mi, depending on the lead concentration. Lead-damaged sensors typically have their tips discolored light rusty.

Another common cause of premature failure of lambda probes is contamination of fuel with silicones (used in some sealings and greases) or silicates (used as corrosion inhibitors in some antifreezes). In this case, the deposits on the sensor are colored between shiny white and grainy light gray.

Leaks of oil into the engine may cover the probe tip with an oily black deposit, with associated loss of response.

An overly rich mixture causes buildup of black powdery deposit on the probe. This may be caused by failure of the probe itself, or by a problem elsewhere in the fuel-rationing system.

Applying an external voltage to the zirconia sensors, e.g. by checking them with some types of ohmmeter, may damage them.

Some sensors have an air inlet to the sensor in the lead, so contamination from the lead caused by water or oil leaks can be sucked into the sensor and cause failure.

Symptoms of a failing oxygen sensor includes:
 * sensor light on dash indicates problem,
 * increased tailpipe emissions,
 * increased fuel consumption,
 * hesitation on acceleration,
 * stalling,
 * rough idling.

Diving applications

The type of oxygen sensor used in most underwater diving applications is the electro-galvanic oxygen sensor, a type of fuel cell, which is sometimes called an oxygen analyser or ppO2 meter. They are used to measure the oxygen concentration of breathing gas mixes such as nitrox and trimix. They are also used within the oxygen control mechanisms of closed-circuit rebreathers to keep the partial pressure of oxygen within safe limits. and to monitor the oxygen content of the breathing gas in saturation diving systems and of surface supplied mixed gas. This type of sensor operates by measuring the voltage generated by a small electro-galvanic fuel cell.

Soil respiration
In soil respiration studies oxygen sensors can be used in conjunction with carbon dioxide sensors to help improve the characterization of soil respiration. Typically, soil oxygen sensors use a galvanic cell to produce a current flow that is proportional to the oxygen concentration being measured. These sensors are buried at various depths to monitor oxygen depletion over time, which is then used to predict soil respiration rates. Generally, these soil sensors are equipped with a built-in heater to prevent condensation from forming on the permeable membrane, as relative humidity can reach 100% in soil.

Marine biology
In marine biology or limnology, oxygen measurements are usually done in order to measure respiration of a community or an organism, but have also been used to measure primary production of algae. The traditional way of measuring oxygen concentration in a water sample has been to use wet chemistry techniques e.g. the Winkler titration method. There are however commercially available oxygen sensors that measure the oxygen concentration in liquids with great accuracy. There are two types of oxygen sensors available: electrodes (electrochemical sensors) and optodes (optical sensors).

Brewing
In breweries, dissolved oxygen is measured at multiple places within a beer production operation, from DO (dissolved oxygen) control at wort aeration, to measurement with a trace oxygen sensor (low-PPB; low-parts per billion) at the filling line. These measurements are either taken with an in-line dissolved oxygen sensor or a portable dissolved oxygen meter.

Pharmaceutical production
Oxygen sensors play a critical role in the production of Active Pharmaceutical Ingredients made in a bioreactor by cell culture or fermentation. Because oxygen is important in cellular respiration, the oxygen sensor provides a critical measurement to ensure that cells in the bioreactor are getting the oxygen needed to maximize production. The accuracy of the oxygen sensor is critical, as a lack of oxygen negatively impacts productivity and excess oxygen can lead to changes in cell metabolism. In bioreactors, oxygen sensors can be installed vertically or at an angle. For vertical installations, angled-tip oxygen sensors help to provide accurate readings.

Electrodes
The Clark-type electrode is the most used oxygen sensor for measuring oxygen dissolved in a liquid. The basic principle is that there is a cathode and an anode submersed in an electrolyte. Oxygen enters the sensor through a permeable membrane by diffusion and is reduced at the cathode, creating a measurable electric current.

There is a linear relationship between the oxygen concentration and the electric current. With a two-point calibration (0% and 100% air saturation), it is possible to measure oxygen in the sample.

One drawback to this approach is that oxygen is consumed during the measurement with a rate equal to the diffusion in the sensor. This means that the sensor must be stirred in order to get the correct measurement and avoid stagnant water. With an increasing sensor size, the oxygen consumption increases and so does the stirring sensitivity. In large sensors there tend to also be a drift in the signal over time due to consumption of the electrolyte. However, Clark-type sensors can be made very small with a tip size of 10 μm. The oxygen consumption of such a microsensor is so small that it is practically insensitive to stirring and can be used in stagnant media such as sediments or inside plant tissue.

Optodes
An oxygen optode is a sensor based on optical measurement of the oxygen concentration. A chemical film is glued to the tip of an optical cable, and the fluorescence properties of this film depend on the oxygen concentration. Fluorescence is at a maximum when there is no oxygen present. The higher the concentration of oxygen, the shorter the lifetime of the fluorescence. When an O2 molecule comes along, it collides with the film, and this quenches the photoluminescence. In a given oxygen concentration there will be a specific number of O2 molecules colliding with the film at any given time, and the fluorescence properties will be stable.

The signal (fluorescence) to oxygen ratio is not linear, and an optode is most sensitive at low oxygen concentration. That is, the sensitivity decreases as oxygen concentration increases, following the Stern–Volmer relationship. The optode sensors can, however, work in the whole region 0% to 100% oxygen saturation in water, and the calibration is done the same way as with the Clark-type sensor. No oxygen is consumed, and hence the sensor is insensitive to stirring, but the signal will stabilize more quickly if the sensor is stirred after being put in the sample. These type of electrode sensors can be used for in situ and real-time monitoring of oxygen production in water-splitting reactions. The platinized electrodes can accomplish the real-time monitoring of hydrogen production in water-splitting device.

Planar optodes are used to detect the spatial distribution of oxygen concentrations in a platinized foil. Based on the same principle than optode probes, a digital camera is used to capture fluorescence intensities over a specific area.

title: Oxygen sensor


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Talk:Bruxism

Should we include this?

-Not sure if this is someone deliberately grinding, or if it is a recording of a person with bruxism. Not sure it is suitable for the article... Lesion ( talk ) 21:50, 16 December 2013 (UTC)

Tongue and oral posture to cure bruxism
Here are a couple sources that claim by keeping the tongue on the roof of the mouth it can counter act the force of the masseters, and balance each other to eliminate jaw tension and bruxism:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15747813

http://claimingpower.com/dr-mike-mew-2014-presentation-adult-cases-ncr-facemax-bruxism-and-its-affect-on-lower-jaw/

Bottlefeeding, sucking on a pacifier, and mouth breathing when young conditions the tongue to stay on the bottom of the mouth when it's natural position should be against the palate.

The proper way is to get the posterior 3rd of the tongue onto the top palate, even to the point of slightly blocking your windpipe, not just the front of the tongue. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Hompo2015 (talk • contribs) 07:27, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

 * The first source is primary and should be used with caution, see wp:medrs for more info. It is preferable to use review papers, mainstream textbooks, etc. Second source certainly appears unreliable. I suggest this concept relates more to temporomandibular disorder. Matthew Ferguson (talk) 15:20, 19 November 2015 (UTC)

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Wobbly definition
A short description has been added: "Disorder that involves involuntarily grinding or clenching of the teeth".

Bruxism does not always occur during sleep. When it occurs during consciousness, I'm not sure there's a hard-and-fast boundary between voluntary and involuntary (otherwise people with TMJD would have no success in consciously minimising occlusal contact when not eating. Tony (talk)  11:25, 9 May 2020 (UTC)

"😬" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%F0%9F%98%AC&redirect=no 😬] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. Edward-Woodrow :) [ talk ] 12:07, 27 August 2023 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Bruxism


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Open University Malaysia

Open University Malaysia, abbreviated as OUM, is the 7th private university in Malaysia. It is owned by Multimedia Technology Enhancement Operations (METEOR) Sdn. Bhd, a consortium of 11 Malaysian public universities.

The main campus is located at Menara OUM, Kelana Centre Point, Kelana Jaya, Selangor. Additionally, there are more than 30 learning centres throughout Malaysia, out of which 10 are regional learning centres.

OUM initially opened to 753 learners in 2001 as the first open and distance learning university in the country,. OUM was officially launched by Prime Minister Mahathir Mohamad on August 26, 2002. A decade later, OUM has over 100,000 students in more than 50 academic programmes. In 2023, QS Stars had assessed OUM's online learning for three years and granted OUM a 5-Star rating.

Chancellors
The vice-chancellor of OUM is Prof Dr Ahmad Izanee Awang. The first chancellor was the late Endon Mahmood (the wife of fifth Prime Minister Abdullah Badawi) who was appointed on 16 December 2004. On 8 December 2007, Jeanne Abdullah was appointed as the new chancellor of OUM;. The current pro-chancellor is Tan Sri Dato' Azman Hashim who is also the executive chairman of Arab-Malaysian Corporation Berhad.

Notable alumni

 * Dato' Seri Saarani Mohamad - Bachelor of Human Resource Management with Honours, current Chief Minister of Perak, politician
 * Dato' Ramli Mohd Nor - Master Degree in Public Administration, Deputy Speaker of Dewan Rakyat 1, Member of Parliament (MP) for Cameron Highlands
 * Soo Wincci - PhD in Business Administration, Miss World Malaysia 2008, International Recording Artiste, actress, composer, host and entrepreneur
 * Anas Alam Faizli - PhD in Business Administration, CEO of Duopharma Biotech Berhad
 * Vanida Imran - Bachelor of Arts (English Studies) Honours, Miss World Malaysia 1993, actress, nona host
 * Daniel Lee Chee Hun - Master of Business Administration (MBA). Singer, 2nd season Malaysian Idol winner
 * Wardina Safiyyah - Bachelor of Psychology (Honours). Actress, model and TV host

title: Open University Malaysia


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Category:Japanese illustrators

Illustrators from Japan

title: Category:Japanese illustrators


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Chlumec nad Cidlinou

Chlumec nad Cidlinou (Chlumetz an der Zidlina) is a town in Hradec Králové District in the Hradec Králové Region of the Czech Republic. It has about 5,600 inhabitants.

Administrative parts
The town is made up of the town parts of Chlumec nad Cidlinou I–IV and the villages of Kladruby, Lučice and Pamětník.

Etymology
The town's name Chlumec is derived from the old Czech word chlum, which meant a hill covered with forest.

Geography
Chlumec nad Cidlinou is located about 26 km west of Hradec Králové. It lies in a flat landscape of the East Elbe Table. The highest point is at 254 m above sea level. The town is situated at the confluence of the Cidlina and Bystřice rivers. There are several fishponds in the municipal territory, especially north of the town. The largest of them is Chlumecký.

The nearest neighbourhood is surrounded by gardens and after it the town is sometimes nicknamed Town in gardens.

History
The first written mention of Chlumec is from 1235 in a deed of King Wenceslaus I. It was located on a trade route from Prague to Kłodzko Land. The village of Lučice, part of Chlumec nad Cidlinou, was first mentioned in 1110.

The Sternberg family owned Chlumec until 1393. During the first half of the 15th century, it belonged to the lords of Bergov, who had built a water castle here. After it belonged to the various nobles and changed owners several times, it was acquired by the Pernštejn family in 1521. During their rule, the estate grew significantly and prospered. The castle was fortified and new Church of Saint Ursula was built. In these times Chlumec was promoted to a town. In 1547, the Chlumec estate was bought by the royal chamber.

From 1611, Chlumec belonged to the Kinsky family. During the Thirty Years' War, the town was conquered and looted repeatedly. It was badly damaged and the castle was destroyed. After several fires, the castle was not renewed and new aristocratic residence was built – the Karlova Koruna Chateau. In the late 17th and early 18th centuries, the town recovered and crafts flourished.

The town developed rapidly before the World War I. Several public buildings were built, including the impressive Neo-Renaissance school.

Transport
The D11 motorway runs south of the town.

Chlumec nad Cidlinou is located on the interregional railway line Prague–Trutnov. It is also the starting point of the lines to Hradec Králové and to Městec Králové.

Sights
The Karlova Koruna Chateau is the most notable landmark of the town. It was built for František Ferdinand Kinsky between 1721 and 1723 with the basic architectural design drafted by Jan Santini Aichel and with the participation in the building process of František Maxmilián Kaňka. The chateau is surrounded by a castle park. The castle chapel in the park is Chapel of the Blessed Virgin Mary which was built in 1741–1745.

The Church of the Holy Trinity is the oldest monument in the town. According to the foundation stone, it was built in 1134. The first written mention is from 1358. Until the early 20th century, it was a cemetery church. The building has a flat ceiling with a triangular presbytery and a wooden prismatic tower. An interior figuration came from the 17th century. Around outer presbytery walls there are placed Empire styled tombs from around 1800. The church was rebuilt many times and today it is considered a styleless construction. The Zubatovská Chapel is a Neoclassical chapel from 1836–1842 is located in the former cemetery, which is today a municipal park.

Church of Saint Ursula was built in 1536–1543. It mixes late Gothic and Renaissance styles. Today's appearance is the result of repairs after three fires in the 17th century. The interior is in the Rococo style after the fire in 1774.

Notable people

 * Václav Kliment Klicpera (1792–1859), playwright
 * Josef Rumler (1922–1999), poet, literary critic, historian and translator
 * Ivana Loudová (1941–2017), composer
 * Helena Válková (born 1951), politician, professor and lawyer
 * Oldřich Dědek (born 1953), economist
 * Ladislav Vízek (born 1955), footballer
 * Miroslav Ouzký (born 1958), physician, politician
 * Miroslav Poche (born 1978), politician and economist
 * Václav Pilař (born 1988), footballer

Twin towns – sister cities
Chlumec nad Cidlinou is twinned with:
 * 🇸🇰 Valaská, Slovakia

title: Chlumec nad Cidlinou


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Talk:Military history of Japan/Archive 1

A 2-year segment of the 1000-year military history of Japan. Turns out they were forced to attack at Pearl Harbor because US wouldn't sell them any more scrap metal. Needs beefing up. Ortolan88

One has to start somewhere... Vera Cruz

How about starting with the Rape of Nanking? Ortolan88

Hey, jerk, if you wanna write about Nanking, than go ahead. Otherwise shut up and Ill do it when I get around to it. Vera Cruz

 * I've seen better and more constructive comments come from you Vera. Orto didn't resort to name calling. --mav

Nice talk from a heck of a nice guy. Ortolan88

I don't see how making snide comments about how incomplete and biased my article is, within 30 seconds of the first edit is not jerkish. Vera Cruz

 * I didn't look at the date, I looked at the article. I commented on what I saw, then added a suggestion, as you requested.  I thought someone else working on the article (which, after all doesn't belong to you in any sense) would be interested in the suggestions I was making.  That is the purpose of the pages and that is how I am using them.  Ortolan88
 * Recent edits eviscerating the article pretty much shows us where Vera Cruz is coming from. Since he is also a troll, I am dropping out of all articles where he is involved.  Yes, Vera, that gives you the power to run me out take over any article I'm interested in.   Ortolan88

Hi Ortolan. See my comments on one of Vera Cruz's other military history articles. Here too, it is essentially plagiarized from the www.ibiblio.com site.

Nanking!?
First, let me just say how disgusted I am that people continue to think of the Rape of Nanking when they think of Japanese history. World War II was much more than just the events of a few days in one Chinese city; and the 1000+ year history of Japan is far far more than just World War II. No other country, except perhaps Germany, faces such hatred and discrimination, and it's just entirely inappropriate for anyone who considers themselves even somewhat a historian.

Second, this article looks like it was written by someone who doesn't believe in the definite article (i.e. the word 'the'). I'm gonna rework it.

LordAmeth 20:22, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This article needs a lot of work. I'm not exactly an expert, but there's a lot that I find questionable in terms of its accuracy. The proliferation of firearms? - I believe that guns were still very expensive, and very rare at this time. Oda Nobunaga's forces were, for a time, the only ones with organized firearm strategy. Also, the "disappearance of personal bravery"? Samurai held just as strongly to the dictates of bushido, to honor and glory in the Sengoku period as they did in centuries earlier, and many aspects of these beliefs continue down to today. Plus, there's nothing at all written for the Nara & Heian periods... which I won't, certainly, blame anyone for. Maybe it's just not your strong point, or maybe you just haven't gotten around to it yet. That's perfectly understandable. If no one minds, I'm gonna keep working on this one, doing what I can to fix it up.

LordAmeth 20:33, 29 Dec 2004 (UTC)


text: Template:K League

title: Template:K League


text:
User:Chalst/WikiProject Logic proposal

This WikiProject is intended to improve coherence and terminology across pages that belong in the various logic categories, especially those that belong in the mathematical logic categories.

What is the motive for starting a logic WikiProject?

 * 1) Policy: To help reach agreement on nomenclature for various logical systems (eg. logic vs. calculus vs. system), on notations used in formal logic, and to establish a few conventional definitions that have agreed places where their definitions can be found;
 * 2) Organisation #1: To make categories useful:
 * 3) *To establish a sort of style guide for categories;
 * 4) *To reach agreement on what are the inclusion criteria for categories;
 * 5) Organisation #2: To figure out what the logic pages are, and which are most central, to allow a synoptic overview of the logic pages
 * 6) Coordination #1: To sort out what should go where with overlapping articles (eg. Organon, term logic, Aristotelian logic, and syllogism);
 * 7) Coordination #2: To have a project-wide to-do list of most wanted improvements to the logic pages.

Scope
To be made explicit; implicitly it's the subject that has all the topics in the proposed hierarchy in it, or it's what the logic article is about

Proposed hierarchy

 * See User:Chalst/watchlist

Issues

 * We need an article that talks about logic as a pedagogical tool (Logic as an exercise in character building), but I've no idea about what to call it. Some thoughts:
 * College logic is the term most used to talk about this, however the term is very much restricted to modern contexts, and I'd say about half of the potential encyclopediac content of such an article is pre-modern.
 * Dialectical logic has unwanted Hegelian/Marxist overtones.
 * The subsection of the logic article dealing with this is called Logic and reasoning, which links to deductive reasoning, but that isn't really about this topic.

 * Establish some sort of guideline for formatting statements and symbols (depending on context), so there is a consistency across logic articles. Similarly, when, where, and if to use LaTeX to generate logical statements. For instance, "If P then Q" is symbolized in various ways:
 * P → Q
 * P→Q
 * P → Q
 * p → q
 * p → q
 * $$p \to q$$
 * $$P \to Q$$
 * P ⊃ Q
 * p ⊃ q
 * Etc.

title: User:Chalst/WikiProject Logic proposal


text:
Category:Croatian illustrators

Illustrators from Croatia

title: Category:Croatian illustrators


text:
User:Sj/recruits

October, 2004. Tim Starling recounts the futility of attracting contributors by advertising in topic-specific fora. [13|03:06]  posting to three different forums got one contributor

Let's test this hypothesis... please add a line to the list below when you have posted an appropriate note ("have you seen the wikipedia section on http://en.wikipedia.org/foo?") to a specialist's forum; list the forum, date, and type of note.

Science

 * alt.physics? maybe not.

Politics
now is the time...
 * individual politician's blogs?
 * only vaguely partisan political-news blogs/fora?

Locales

 * Cities : Arl-list
 * Universities : UT (x2), HU, UH.

title: User:Sj/recruits


text:
Aero Adventure Pegasus

The Aero Adventure Pegasus is a small civil utility aircraft under development in the United States for sale as a kitplane. Of conventional monoplane configuration and composite construction, the Pegasus will seat its pilot and passenger in tandem and be available with a choice of two different wings, a longer wing for extended range, and a shorter wing for increased maneuverability.

title: Aero Adventure Pegasus


text:
M1903

M1903, meaning Model of 1903, can refer to a number of different pieces of equipment

 * M1903 Springfield rifle
 * FN Model 1903
 * Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammer
 * Colt Model 1903 Pocket Hammerless
 * 3-inch gun M1903
 * 6-inch gun M1903

title: M1903


text:
User:Birth tragedy

Wikipedia name: birth_tragedy (derived from the book The Birth of Tragedy by Nietzsche in case anyone was wondering)

What I do here: Mainly I'll be snooping around the 19th-21st century philosophy articles. It is not a profession for me, and I do these mainly for my own enjoyment and fulfillment, though I am not against the fact that others will benefit from my writings as well.

Main influences: Hegel, Nietzsche, Foucault, Zizek, though there is a number of others that I draw from as well.

title: User:Birth tragedy


text:
Talk:Thrace

Farsi poem

 * من از بيگانگان هرگز ننالم
 * كه با من هر چه كرد آن آشنا كرد —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.234.145.72 (talk • contribs) 07:20, 13 October 2004 (UTC)

 * Is this... Farsi? Please write in English. --Joy [shallot]

--No that is Persian. It is a poem destined for one of the members. It was the best way to make him understand the message. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.234.145.72 (talk • contribs) 07:15, 14 October 2004 (UTC)
 * Persian and Farsi are the same language, aren't they? --Khalil78 14:59, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

 * An English translation (or external links) would be well received. This is a place of sharing, and poetry has much value.  --Dl33t 22:46, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * 1) من از بيگانگان هرگز ننالم
 * 2) كه با من هر چه كرد آن آشنا كرد

 * In Parsi it roughly translates to "I will not ever moan (because) of the foreigners, as what it did to me, it taught me."

I am guessing this was written by an Iranian poet under foreign rule..?  - K a s h  Talk 13:03, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Thracians, Greeks
I removed it because in the end of page i have the sources about the thracian relation with greeks in customs & language

I think Thracians do not necessary have to be Greek. Many Bulgarians and Turks also associate with this identity. As such, I do not understand why from the Famous Thracians section you keep removing Ataturk, probably one of the most famous Thracians. When you have Kara Thrace ( from Battlestar Galactica of all places) right up there.

No I think there is too much Greek Nationalism that is seeping into some of the decisions in this page, which is also the exact same reason all the minorities have left the beautiful city of Thessaloniki. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Thracian2005 (talk • contribs) 06:44, 29 March 2010 (UTC) It makes no sense whatsoever for you to remove Ataturk. The only reason you removed it because you are thinking that all Thracians are Greek. That is incorrect. In fact most Thracians are not Greek, never have been and definitely not today. The biggest city in all of Thrace is Edirne, so by definition the majority of Thrace is not Greek. In history Thracians untill Helenization wer not Greek. There are literally Hundreds of Thousands of Pomaps, Bulgarians and Turks who are Thracian and are not Greek. You can go back as far back in history as you want and you will find that not all Thracians are not Greek.

Ataturk is from Thrace, much more so than Kara Thrace is. And if you dispute that, then I think you have bigger issues then posting on Wikipedia. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.40.54.0 (talk) 05:50, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Map hard to read
The map is difficult to get anything out of. Could someone please include a textual description of the geographic region involved? —James S. 07:40, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
 * Clicking on the image in the article will give you a closer view, though I blew up the image here on the Talk Page. The map does not represent the pre-Roman situation, since "Moesia superior" and "Moesia inferior" were outlined by the Romans. The outline that the map gives (basically of Roman Thrace) approximates to pre-Roman classical Thrace. Alexander 007 07:47, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

A source on Thracians after hellenization
Esychius According to Esychius Thracians are called Ionians(Greeks) and Kaprondai Below is the source text. Κατά δε τον Ήσύχιον οι Θράκες εκαλούντο και Ίωνες και Κάπρονται. «Ιάονες οί Ίωνες. Ένιοι και τους θράκας. «Ίωνες τίνες και τους Θράκας. Κάπρονται εκαλούντο ούτως οί Θράκες»

Esychius writes in an era when the a great number of thracians were fully hellenized. This hellenization makes up for the reason this reference to them occured.

Modern Greek Thrace
Is this the official Coat of arms of Thraki in Ellada? Miko Stavrev 19:50, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Yes

Thanks. Miko Stavrev 18:34, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

 * As far as I am aware, this is not a CoA of the region of Thrace, but rather the emblem of a Greek frigate named "Thrace". Greek regions generally don't have coats of arms or distinctive heraldry, and the particular CoA is definitely "military-style" (flag, Nice of Samothrace, triangular shield etc). Therefore I remove it.Cplakidas 14:57, 11 March 2006 (UTC)

More on Hellenization Anyway back to the Thracians, here are some Ancient quotes on Greek speaking Thracians :

-- a. "When Seuthes heard all that, he said that he trusted all Athenians, because he knows that between him and them there is a kinship, and thus he considers them as his dear friends."

[Seuthes was the King of Southern Thrace]

(Seuthes' ancestor Teres, and First King of the Thracian Odrysians, was in fact Tereus who married the daughter of the Athenian King Pandion and had lands in Phocis. This happened in the remote antiquity. Events described here take place ca. 400 B.C.)

Source: - Xenophon,‚-Anabasis: Book VII, Chapter II, 31

-- b. (Seuthes replied Maisades was my father, and he ruled the Melanditae, the Thynians and the Tranipsae.[Thracian tribes].

(The Thracian Tribal names are all Hellinic etymologically.)

Source: - Xenophon‚-Anabasis: Book VII, Chapter II, 32

-- c. (Xenophon said We intend to go to a place where the soldiers will be able to find food for themselves. There, we will hear what Aristarchus the Spartan has to say and what you have to propose, and we shall choose to go with whomever proposals' sound more beneficial to us.

(King Seuthes replied I know many villages that are not far away one from the other, where food can be found in abudance.

(Seuthes could speak and understand Attic Hellinic, thus he was able to converse with Xenophon, an Athenian, directly without the intervention of an itepreter.)

Source: - Xenophon,‚-Anabasis: Book VII, Chapter III, 8-10

--- d. When they were close at the gates, and they were preparing themselves to enter and dine, they met a certain Heracleides from Maronia.

(Maronia was a Hellinic City on the Thracian Coast between Abdera and Doriscon Lt. Doriscum. Heracleides was King Seuthes' aid-de-camp.)

Source: - Xenophon‚-Anabasis: Book VII, Chapter III, 16

--- e. Then Seuthes arose, and drunk along with Xenophon all the wine in their cups, and then, together, they shed the last drops of the wine on the ground, as a "sponde".

(A "Sponde", was an Archaic Hellinic Custom, documented to be practised at least from the time of the Trojan War. Achilles, Menelaus, Patroclus, Agamemnon, Diomedes, Odysseus, Hector, Paris, Priamus, in short terms everybody as early as 1260 B.C. to honour the Gods. The practicing of the same custom by the Thracians means that, they had common customs with the Hellines.)

Source: - Xenophon,‚-Anabasis: Book VII, Chapter III, 32

--- f. (Seuthes said Prepare yourselves and wait. When the time is right I shall come with my Peltasts take you and lead you with the help of the Gods.

(Hellines and Thracians had the same Gods, i.e. the twelve Olympian Gods.)

Source: - Xenophon‚-Anabasis: Book VII, Chapter III, 36

--- g. And [thus] as a password, they set the name of the Godess Athena, because of the kinship between Athenians and Tracians.

Source: - Xenophon‚-Anabasis: Book VII, Chapter III, 39

--- h. (The Thynians, one of the Thracian tribes Seuthes and Xenophon wage war against, attack the Hellino-Thracian Army. Book VII, Chapter IV, 12-19)

(And) they even called out the name of Xenophon as well, and challenged him to step out of the (keep) to kill him, otherwise they threatened him that they would burn him where he stands.

(It is clear that even the Thynian tribesmen, commoners in other words, spoke Hellinic. Knowledge of the Hellinic language was not limited to Noblemen only.)

Source: - Xenophon‚-Anabasis: Book VII, Chapter IV, 15

--- i. Because many of the Odrysians left their mountain homes to take part in his [Seuthes'] military operations because they have learned of his achievements.

(Seuthes was the son of the King of the Odrysians, a Thracian tribe that lived in the Thracian mountains, not in the Thracian coast.)

Source: - Xenophon‚-Anabasis: Book VII, Chapter IV, 21

CONCLUSION: - There were clearly many ties, linguistic, cultural, racial, as well as religious between the Thracians and the Hellines.

As the evidence of the Archaic Thracian King Tereus tells us, contacts between the mainland Hellines and the Thracians are as old as at least 8th cent. B.C.

Some other connections as posted above can be found in religion:

Pausanias, Description of Hellas 9.30.1 Tells us how the the Thracian women plotted the death of Orpheus, in this same text we also find a list of other Hellinic Gods.

Again in Pausanias, Description of Hellas 7.5.1 We find that only Thracian women were allowed to enter sanctuary of Herakles at Erythrae he also mentions them visiting the temple of Athena at Priene.

We should also note the very interesting find in 2004 by the Bulgarian archaeologist Georgi Kitov.. He found a mask identical to that known as 'Agammemnon's' acompanied by an Olympic Ring in a tomb, which obviously indicate that these were not mere imports.. Based on the fact that only Hellinic "tribes" took part in the ancient Olympics, these finds could finally "link" the Thracians to ancient Hellas and point to the probability of them being a Hellinic tribe or an early Hellinization...

POLL: Introduction for Republic of Macedonia article
Hello! Given ongoing discussions and recent edit warring, a poll is currently underway to decide the rendition of the lead for the Republic of Macedonia article. Please weigh in! E Pluribus Anthony | talk | 01:04, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

Need links.
Kathryn Ann Sackhoff

Katee Sackhoff

Kara_Thrace

Battlestar_Galactica_%28TV_series%29

Hopiakuta 17:41, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Cities of Thrace
Dear Khoikhoi: You suggested that “just the larger cities will do”. However, you have removed towns like Smolyan (31,113), Chirpan (19,745), Elhovo (13,120), Kardzhali (50,851), Karnobat (21,882), Nova Zagora 26,530), and Panagyurishte (20,938), while leaving Pythio (734), Lavara (6,905) or Abdera (3,917). For your information, Thrace is unequally divided between Bulgaria, Greece and Turkey in terms of both territory and population: Northern Thrace (Bulgaria): 2,727,035; Western Thrace (Greece): 368,993; Eastern Thrace (bar Istanbul, Turkey): 1,354,658 (population estimates mostly 2000-2005).  Therefore, if your suggestion is to be followed, then please fix a threshold and leave all the larger towns.  (If historical significance is taken into account such as e.g. in the case of Abdera, then the old Black Sea towns would qualify too.) Apcbg 20:56, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Ok, but my concern is that the list will get too long, and then someone will add all the cities in Turkish and Greece Thrace. Now it looks really uneven and in my opinion...just plain unecessary. — Khoikhoi 03:02, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

 * The present list does not include all the cities in Bulgarian Thrace either. I do not object shortening the overall list, as long as you apply one and the same standard for the three sub-regions.  As these sub-regions are fairly uneven then the three sub-lists would be uneven too, and rightly so -- the population of Bulgarian Thrace is 7 times that of Greek Thrace!.  You may get the list as long or short as you wish by choosing a lower or higher threshold.  For instance, if you fix the threshold at say 10,000 inhabitants, the combined list would get much shorter than the prent one. Apcbg 05:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Alright, I see what you mean now. :) How about what you said—10,000? We can try that. Cheers. — Khoikhoi 06:29, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

 * There are some problems I would like to point out and help out with.
 * 1) cities lists. If we are going with the broadest definition of Thrace as a region, as apparently has happened and going to include cities of over 10,000, we are going to end up with many more Turkish and Greek cities than currently listed. There seem to be areas of Bulgaria that are not in any current formal Bulgarian "Thrace" administrative polity. If the case is the extent of any empires' and mapmakers broadest definitions of Thrace then this is going to be a big list. Right now we have many cities that in Bulgaria are prmarily considered historically Moesia and E. Roumelia since the arival of the Bulgarians. If we are talking about the distribution of Thracian tribes being the geographic delimiter as also appears to be the case, the some the most famous Thracian populations were in fact in a big chunk of North East Asia Minor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bithynia#History

 * I also do not understand the reason why Bulgarian names were aded to cities currently in Turkey or Greece, yet my addition of Turkish and Greek names to cities listed in Bulgaria were removed.

 * 2) The rich Ottoman history of this area is blank. I do not mean just he history of the Turks there in Ottoman times but the extemely active Greek merchants on the Thrace Black Sea coast (there is a lot of material),a s well as Bularian life during this period.

 * We also of course must dispassionatly not that this was a killling ground of huge proportions with Turks and Greeks being killed by Bulgarians during Ilindin, Bulgarians being killed in response after, everyone killing everyone in the Balkan wars.

 * We don't want the article to dwell or blame one side, but as a result of all that mutual killings/ethnic cleansing the population transfers occured and they were the model of massive population exchanges in 1922-23.

 * 3) there seems to be a huge emphasise on Thracian mercenaries and other strange assertions in the "Culture section.". I wonder about the sources. The empahsis on infantry and "peltasts" is strange since this was in antiquity serious horse country. The Roman references to Thracian legioniares and mercenaries I see are to horsemen. I almost feel I am reading a section from a a ficvtional ancient wargaming text with all the hyperbolic repetive text about how "fierce" and bloodthirsty these people supposedly were.

 * 4) Greek colonies. The Greek colonies are founded and many with relations wiht Greece, Persia and others from the the 6th century on. they appear and are notable in many ancient texts. Why are they after the later Odrysian kingdom?

Should "European Turkey" really link here?
--Greasysteve13 06:02, 16 September 2006 (UTC)

 * Yes, it should, because Thrace is the most common name for it. Anatolia refers to Asian Turkey. — Khoikhoi 06:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * But this also refers to Greek and Bulgarian Thrace. I typed European Turkey with Turkey on the mind, not Greece an Bulgaria.--Greasysteve13 07:46, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * I guess that's probably because Turkish Thrace is the same thing as Eastern Thrace, which redirects here. Northern Thrace and Western Thrace seem to have their own articles. — Khoikhoi 07:49, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay.--Greasysteve13 10:31, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Well it doesn't now.--Greasysteve13 03:42, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

It does not now, because this page is run by Ultra Nationalist Greeks who can't stand Turks. Maybe you ought to check out your racist Megalo Ideas out the door before posting here. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.40.54.0 (talk) 05:53, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Culture Section
The "Culture" section includes a really odd passage with no cites:

 * Thracian society was patriarchal. Polygamy was standard and men considered women placed on earth to please them. [citation needed] Thracians considered death an honor and accepted it as a natural part of life. [citation needed] The Thracians were extremely proud people. If a man's father was murdered, it was considered practical to slaughter the murderer, his family (extended), and his livestock. [citation needed] Also, upon the death of a husband, the wives would fight over who was loved more by the deceased. Usually determined by the winner of a match to the death. The wives would tie their left legs together and fight with strips of cowhide and a staff. The winner of this deathmatch would then commit suicide and be given the honor of being buried at the right hand of her husband. [citation needed]

''Whoa! My spider-sense is tingling!'' I'm guessing this is not legit information. I've removed it for now. If someone finds a source for this, maybe it can be returned; as it is, it just looks silly. --GenkiNeko 15:42, 20 November 2006 (UTC)

Ancient History section
The ancient history section reads in sort of a cobbled-together fashion. It repeats itself a bit, and jumps back and forth in the narrative. I'm going to tag it -- I just wanted to explain why. I would reorganize it myself, but don't have enough time right now. Larry Dunn 14:07, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

I deleted 'north of Greece' because the reference cited [1] says 'north of Thessaly' and NOT 'north of Greece' (which is by the way a very different thing except if it is implied that historic Macedonia was not a part of Greece)--Κλειδοκράτωρ (talk) 12:16, 20 January 2011 (UTC)

MAP
This article has no proper map for people to see the boundaries of Thrace. I propose we incorporate this map: --Waterfall999 08:23, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Image has been added--Waterfall999 11:19, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

thracian archaeological find

 * 2,400-year-old golden mask unearthed
 * Ling.Nut 20:42, 16 July 2007 (UTC)

Map selection
My map offers more info and is better looking than jigiby's .I suggest we use only mineMegistias (talk) 11:30, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Borders of Thrace
A sock, which was not active around a year, now again under a name ITSENJOYABLE is making disruptive edis, reverting the information from Enciclopedia Britannica about the borders of Thrace without reliable explaination. Please, provide your logical motivation to revert Britannica. Jingby (talk) 12:33, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Please refrain from insulting. Perhaps you mother or your father is a "sock"... Anyway, it were my edits which brought clarity to this article (by using references for the first time it the articles history), including the ones regarding Thrace's borders. ITSENJOYABLE (talk) 12:40, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Was this your logical motivation about reverting my edits referenced with Britannica. Jingby (talk) 12:50, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * What's the logic behind pastiche-ing Britannica's vague content? ITSENJOYABLE (talk) 13:21, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Espesially the borders are clearly defined. And the western border between Thracian and Illyrian zones of influence, too. I do not think this controvert the rest from the article or the added references in any way. Jingby (talk) 13:40, 12 August 2009 (UTC)

Thracia

 * Thracia should redirect to Roman Thrace, which was Thracia, anywaysMegistias (talk) 10:19, 22 February 2010 (UTC)

added this194.66.226.95 (talk) 12:06, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

German?
Why is the German name of Thrace given in the lead section? Does Thrace have a historic German population? Fishal (talk) 04:19, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Famous trakians???
Mehmed II Ottoman Sultan, born at Edirne in Thrace; he was the Sultan who invaded Constantinople?? Bayezid II Ottoman Sultan?? how these otomans could be trakians for god sake? They are different etno, linguo and antropo-group. I suggest you show sources that some one called these turks trakians or they called themself that way or i will suggest these names for deletion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nix1129 (talk • contribs) 11:47, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

Sentence needs fixing
I came here to check on the status of Thrace in the 1st century and found this incomprehensible sentence: "Thrace also lost its independence and became tributary to Rome, while towards the end of the 1st century BC was no longer a client kingdom of the Romans appointed and their kings." What does this mean? Could someone please fix it? Thanks.

Famous Thracians and people from Thrace
To a non-expert like myself, the section heading Famous Thracians and people from Thrace does not make sense.

(a) What is the difference between "Thracians" and "people from Thrace"?

and

(b) If there is a difference, is the difference important enough to justify using both phrases for such a short section?

– Corinne (talk) 20:20, 18 January 2016 (UTC)

The Spartacus bit could use some work. Not only is the paragraph poorly written, but it also makes the claim that Spartacus "[brought] the entire empire to its very end" which is patently untrue. 50.141.103.35 (talk) 23:55, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

Agree with comment above. Spartacus was a gladiator who fought in the Thracian style, not a native of Thrace. He was a soldier in the Roman army where he was decorated and promoted. He was court-martialed for his sometimes-poor behavior, such proceedings initiated through the enmity of an officer of rank superior to his. He was convicted, whereupon he chose to become a gladiator rather than be executed. He was sent to a gladiator training facility, where it was decided he be trained in the Thracian style, which employed minimal armor, due to his exquisite physique. Sfruss (talk) 00:06, 26 May 2016 (UTC)
 * The above comment is utter rot, written long, long after the Third Slave Revolt. All we know of Spartacus are his deeds during the revolt, and the very short comments by the contemporary Roman and Greek historians that he was Thracian.  All the later accounts are generally dismissed as pure fiction.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.111.199.0 (talk) 15:31, 6 November 2016 (UTC)

Etymology
This section seems all kinds of messed up.

1. The assertion that Thrace was once called "Europe" and is the origin of the name of the continent doesn't seem reliable. Aside from the source cited, I could find nothing else referencing this. The BBC article cited is not historical or geographic, but a news report about bank notes, the only mention of a Europe/Thrace connection in the caption of an image. Hardly a reliable source for this information.

2. "The region obviously took the name of the principal river there, Hebros, probably from the Indo-European arg "white river"" This sentence is terrible. Is it indicating that the name "Europe" or that the name "Thrace" is derived from the river "Hebros". Secondly, how is this obvious? I am not a linguist, so I see no obvious etymological connection between the words "Hebros" and either "Europe" or "Thrace". If these words are, in fact, etymologically related then the etymology itself should be explained clearer, as the cited source on this explains nothing in this regard. 50.141.103.35 (talk) 23:41, 20 February 2016 (UTC)

I agree with the above, that the BBC article is the only source referring Thrace and Europe as the same thing. In addition, Europe (Εὐρώπη) has definitely a Greek etymology, derived from εὐρύς (wide, broad) and ὤψ/ὠπ-/ὀπτ (face, countenance), but Thrace has not, nor has Hebros. Even the myth of Europa does not mention Thrace at all. Fallenman369 (talk) 18:13, 15 January 2017 (UTC)

Article section Thracians and wine
Its earliest form was added by an IP about 6 months back, per this diff -. A mess. Despite subsequent good faith attempts by various editors, it remains tendentious, filled with uncited claims. The material claimed the support of a single reliable source  - a good source, seemingly. But the source makes none of the cited claims. Rather, it explicitly warns against using myth-as-history to assert possible historical developments in viticulture. The section seems to hang by a very slender thread. I'd like to remove it altogether. What do others think? Is ancient Thracian wine-culture sufficiently known and significant to justify having such a section to itself? Wikipedia's Wine article barely mentions Thrace. Haploidavey (talk) 14:21, 24 February 2016 (UTC)
 * I've tagged the section, and the whole article for references - Thrace is an important topic, and this article is sadly insufficient. 50.111.63.109 (talk) 11:06, 4 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Right. Actually, the section on wine might as well go. If sources can be found to justify the heading, all well and good. While I'm here - the Spartacus business is yet another sore point. It's impossible to know whether he was ethnically Thracian or simply a Thracian-type gladiator (though some Roman sources say he was a murmillo type). I guess all we can do is make clear that Roman sources said he was Thracian by birth or ethnicity. Haploidavey (talk) 11:13, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
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Etymology
Thrake Thrace is not Indo-European, cause this Pseudo-Hypothese is unproven and since years refutef. The Tracians are an ancient greek tribe. < Mecedonians < Dorians from Arcadia. Thrancian Dialekt < ancientgreek Dorian Dialekt. Daciens and Getae are Thracian descendants with pelsagian roots. Thracians went to Minor Asia and foundet there Phrygia and named themselves Phrygs and later Trojans. Thracian is in Scythian to find. The word Thrace from the verb throsko to arise up. Ion. Thrax Thressa, dor. Thrax Thrassa, TH = divine + R = streaming, flowing = THR streaming, flowing to the direction Divine. GIve the greek Work Threskia for Religion. Thressa the highpristress of the Cabeirian Mysteries, were thracian women, receiving with Enthusiasm the holy Mania. Verb threomai threo for scremaning. Examples the word water in mac. / thac. is apa, in lith. upe. The Getae is maced. G Getas, myk. Ketas. Trac. / Dor. S an att. K in Sara and Kara for highest end, head. The S / K exchange refutes the propagandistic ideologically Pseudo-indo-european-hypothese. Mak. city Βεργη Berge and the minor asian city Perge Περγη, engl.Bourgh germ. Burg for Fortress. The MAc. Philippos and thr. Bilippos Wilippos PH/B W exchange. Evros from the helleno-pelasgian root EFos Eos Lightbringerin dawn. AF-Jos : Ayge Auge Avge ray of light, gleam. Like in Ayra Aura Avra an Bravo. Evros gleamin Eastwind Dawn stream. It´s not pseudo- Indo-european. The Namens, Genaologys, Theo- and Toponyms are all greek. 2A01:C22:B191:8200:2061:8D5A:31AC:D0A0 (talk) 08:32, 23 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Thrace


text:
Talk:Emperor Kanmu

Kanmu versus Kammu
"Kanmu" or "Kammu", which one is right? Ryuch 07:28, 13 Oct 2004 -- diff?

 * There are many systems of romanization, that is, writing foreign words using the Roman alphabet. One system, which is conventional with the Japanese as well as foreign students learning Japanese, especially from a linguistic perspective, would spell it "Kanmu." Another system, which serves to communicate pronunciation to readers who don't speak Japanese, would write it "Kammu." So rather than a matter of right and wrong, it's a matter of purpose and readership. Personally, I believe "Kammu" better suits me, although "Kanmu" is more conventional among the Japanese and scholars. Fg2 07:56, Oct 13, 2004 -- diff?

 * Since this is an English wiki page, the romanization system used should be the one which best aids speakers of English. As this is generally the Hepburn System, I would suggest that "桓武"　should be rendered as "Kanmu" not "Kammu", as is the standard for that system. --Antarctic-adventurer (talk) 05:50, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Re: explanatory spelling note in first paragraph, see discussion thread at Talk:Emperor Temmu. --Tenmei (talk) 19:10, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
 * In Japanese this emperor is called 桓武天皇（かんむてんのう) = Kanmu Tenno. So the most accurate writing is Kanmu which is also preferred by The Imperial Household Agency. The page name is Emperor Kanmu including on other language wiki pages. I recommend that the name be written as "Kanmu" in this wiki page. -Artanisen (talk) 15:10, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Tangential links
An anonymous editor added several links in the "See also" section -- see here. This Punjabi contributor made several similar edits:
 * 07:35, 18 August 2009 (hist) (diff) Emperor Kammu  (→See also)
 * 07:31, 18 August 2009 (hist) (diff) Fujiwara no Kamatari  (→See also)
 * 07:26, 18 August 2009 (hist) (diff) Fujiwara clan  (→See also)
 * 07:22, 18 August 2009 (hist) (diff) Kamakura  (→See also)
 * 07:19, 18 August 2009 (hist) (diff) Mimasaka Province  (→References)
 * 07:17, 18 August 2009 (hist) (diff) Hōnen  (→Early life)

In my view, the following are too much of a stretch in the context of Emperor Kammu: Whatever the intention, this needs more explanation and discussion. --Tenmei (talk) 12:47, 18 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Kamma
 * Kumo Xi
 * Saka Kamboja
 * Sakha Republic
 * Sakhalin
 * Indo-Aryan Migration
 * Turkic migration

DOB
The first line of the article says he was born in 737, but the infobox says 735. Which is correct? LordAmeth (talk) 05:08, 16 January 2011 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Emperor Jimmu which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 10:43, 13 August 2013 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was moved. --BDD (talk) 22:38, 22 October 2013 (UTC)

 * Emperor Kammu → Emperor Kanmu
 * Emperor Kimmei → Emperor Kinmei
 * Emperor Mommu → Emperor Monmu

– Per WP:MOSJ, and for consistency with Emperor Ninmyō, Empress Genmei and Emperor Tenmu. The Imperial Household Agency also prefers the proposed spellings. Every time I post one of these RMs I look through all the Google Books results and, honestly, I think I've demonstrated thoroughly enough that modern reliable print sources. If anyone else wants to take a shot this time, be my guest. But at this point I don't think it's necessary, because none of these moves have yet been opposed. Hijiri 88 ( 聖やや ) 13:48, 11 October 2013 (UTC)

 * Support – It's inconsistent to spell the sequence as "nm" in some and "mm" in others when they're the same. --Article editor (talk) 16:36, 18 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

title: Talk:Emperor Kanmu


text:
User talk:Francis Schonken/Dutch

(Communications in Dutch with Francis Schonken)

Voor nederlandstalige communicaties met Francis Schonken:

***Belangrijke opmerking: indien je niet ingelogd bent op de engelstalige wikipedia, maar enkel op de nederlandstalige onderteken dan niet met ~ maar met nl:gebruiker:jouwgebruikersnaam ***

Djinn
Hartelijk dank voor je geweldige bijdrage. Ik zou trouwens nog wel graag willen weten wat een "stub" is in de engelstalige Wikipedia. Ook heb ik aan de overlegpagina van "Kerkgenootschappen" iets zinvols proberen toe te voegen, waardoor het artikel wellicht zodanig verbeterd kan worden, zodat het niet meer voor verwijdering genomineerd hoeft te worden.. Met vriendelijke groeten nl:gebruiker:Wim Hamhuis

Wikipedia e-mail adres
Die forward van Francis.Schonken AT wikipedia.be is in orde. wikipedia.be is eigendom van Wikimedia maar in dns-controle van WikipediaNL. Ik kan niet garanderen dat het altijd zal blijven werken al zal ik het wel proberen. Walter 21:36, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * e-mail adres werkt en staat vermeld op user:Francis Schonken

"ADHD" artikel op nl Wikipedia
Hoi Francis, nav. je opmerkingen op mijn overlegpagina op de Nederlandse wikipedia, ik hoop ook maar dat iemand de nieuwst informatie in ADHD invoegt. Weet jij trouwens hoe het zit met het copyright, mag je de ontvangen samenvatting door iemand anders gewoon op wikipedia neerzetten? Je had ook een vraag, over je gebruikersprofiel. De inlognamen van alle wikipedia's staan los van elkaar, je zou dus bij de NL wikipedia dezelfde naam moeten aanvragen, ik heb nog geen Francis Schonken gezien namelijk (maar misschien heb je dat wel al gedaan). Bij mij gaat het dan meestal goed, het switchen tussen en: en nl. Ellywa 23:10, 31 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Categorisatie Rotterdam symposium
(van User talk:Francis Schonken - zie ook nl:Overleg gebruiker:Michiel1972)

(Overigens heb ik het voorbereiden van het punt "categorisatie" op het Rotterdams symposium nu als een aparte topic aangezet op User:Francis Schonken/Dutch - ik verzamelde daar alle communicaties over dit onderwerp waar ik weet van heb, met de uitnodiging hier aan verder te bouwen...)

Hoi, nav je bericht enkele gedachten.

Het categorisatie-probleen op nl.wik waren afgelopen maanden:
 * persoon categorisatie op basis van nationaliteit en beroep Brits schrijver, Frans filosoof etc. Deze systematiek is eigenlijk ingevoerd zonder volledige instemming van de gemeenschap, maar functioneert vrij goed. Wel treden nu hier afgeleide problemen op:
 * Amerikaans acteur en Amerikaans actrice, dus niet echt 'gender-neutral'. Op zich niet erg, maar voor andere nationaliteiten worden zowel m/v in een categorie gedaan. Misschien kan je daar wat over zeggen. Hoe doen ze dat op en.wiki?

Ook lijkt het me leuk als je kan aangeven in hoever de en.wik categorie indeling 'klaar' is. Hoeveel cats zijn er? Op de Nederlandse wik nu ongeveer 2100.

Verder lijkt het me nuttig om de + en - punten van Categorieen - lijsten - - AZ-overzichten - navigatietabellen op een rij te zetten. En de aanpak op de EN.wik hiervan.

groetjes, Michiel. - 82.210.116.183 16:58, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Hallo Francis allereerst leuk dat je ook komt naar het symposium. Op je vraagstelling tot in hoeverre Engelse policies de Nederlandse beinvloedden denk ik zelf steeds maar minder. Naarmate we meer mensen op nl krijgen komen er meer "eigen" ideeen die afwijken van andere wiki's. Kijk ook naar de Duitse, Franse en ongetwijfeld ook de Japanse wikipedia's die gaan ook hun eigen weg. De goede dingen (portalen (de:), schrijfwedstrijd (nl:)) stelen we bij elkaar en de slechte niet. Natuurlijk is de engelse wiki verder met alles wat er gebeurd is.

 * Het lijkt me in ieder geval leuk als je ook af en toe wat aan de nl kant deed. Dan kan je namelijk zelf zien hoe het gaat en hoe policies beinvloed worden. En misschien wat van NL: naar EN: exporteren :). Voor categories hebben we na lang overleggen waarin 7 systemen zijn voorgesteld uiteindelijk besloten het te laten evolueren. En dit werkt redelijk goed nu. We hadden namelijk voor geen 1 systeem een meerderheid. Er is zelfs een groep die door de superlange discussie voor een totale verwijdering van het categoriesysteem is. Waerth 10:16, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Dat ik vooral voor en wikipedia werk is natuurlijk een keuze. Ik ga daar hier niet verder op in, maar wil daar gerust in de wandelgangen op het symposium tekst en uitleg bij geven.
 * Voor het overige vind ik zo'n symposium een uitgelezen kans om eens een stand van zaken te maken van de bruggen die er al dan niet zijn tussen nl en en wikipedia. Maak je overigens niet al te veel illusies over het "verder staan" van en wikipedia. Ik maak nog altijd een onderscheid tussen kwaliteit en kwantiteit - daarom denk ik ook wel wat te kunnen leren van dit symposium over de nl wikipedia.
 * Wat je schrijft over categorieën heb ik gekopieerd naar User:Francis Schonken/Dutch
 * Francis

Wikipedia hervormingen
Op het gevaar af het kind met het badwater weg te gooien, heb ik deze topic even leeggemaakt, kwestie van een nieuwe start te nemen. Al het essentiële staat op nl:overleg wikipedia:hervormingen, meen ik.

Let wel, ik heb daar recent nog een ideetje geplaatst (i.v.m. Anthere die nogal op de hoogte lijkt te zijn van het oprichten van een Arbitragecomité), maar ik vrees dat nog niet zo veel mensen dat daar gezien hebben.

Kwaliteitsborgingssysteem
Dag Francis, Bedankt voor je reactie. Ik was van plan om in Rotterdam in de wandelgangen deze en gene eens aan de jas te trekken. Groetjes, MartinD.

O dear, my and my big mouth... Zeer vleiend als je aan me denkt als het over kwaliteit gaat. Maar zou dan toch graag eerst meer weten van wat de bedoeling is en zo. Voorlopig constateer ik dat er forse verschillen in kwaliteit zijn: sommige artikelen komen nauwelijks boven een woordenboek-definitie uit, andere zijn zeer doorwrocht. An sich kan me dat niet zoveel schelen, is inherent aan de losse structuur van Wikipedia. Ik mag dat soort zachtmoedig anarchisme wel, past bij mijn aard. Wat ik me zou kunnen voorstellen is iets waarbij er informele ploegjes mesnen zijn die enigszins op een bepaald vakgebied zijn ingevoerd, en die elkaar inseinen als ze iets op dat gebied hebben geschreven. Zo van "kijk hier even naar, dan hebben we tenminste een paar extra ogen eroverheen gehad". Maar ik denk graag verder met je mee. Groetjes, MartinD. (Sorry, ik slaag er niet in om mijn gebruikersnaam als link erin te krijgen, maar ik constateer dat je me weet te vinden.)

Hoi Francis, Ik heb Jcwf (ofwel Jaap, ik neem aan dat ik Jaap mag zeggen) geantwoord, en hem gevraagd om denkkracht ter beschikking te stellen. Groetjes, nl:gebruiker:MartinD

Profiel op nl:wikipedia
Aangemaakt, dus die topic is hier ook weg.

Andere topics
Ik laat het volgende nog even staan, omdat ik de persoon die het schreef nog niet ontmoet had:

 * Ik vind het eigenlijk not done lopen rotzooien op overleg- en gebruikerspagina's nl:gebruiker:Gebruiker Bean 19

Zie uitleg op mijn profielpagina in de nederlandstalige wikipedia. En mijn excuses i.v.m. ondoordacht omspringen met stijlverschillen tussen nederlandstalige en engelstalige wikipedia.

Hallo Francis kijk ook eens op: nl:Wikipedia:Conflictoplossing en nl:Wikipedia:Vrijwillige bemiddelaars Waerth 10:58, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Copyright gebruik op nl.wikipedia
Dag Francis. Wij hebben elkaar nog ontmoet op de wikimeeting in Rotterdam. Ik stel vast dat je zinnige uitleg geeft bij het copyright beleid in de nl.wikipedia zie : Wikipedia:Beleid voor gebruik van media/vragen aan jurist). Daarom wend ik me tot jou. Meestal werk in op de en.wikipedia (hoofdzakelijk botanische artikelen, maar ook veel andere zaken). Om een gepaste afbeeldingen te geraken zoek ik nogal dikwijls eens op de nl.wikipedia en zet die afbeeldingen dan over naar de Commons. Vergeleken bij de en.wikipedia lijkt het copyright beleid in de nl.wikipedia nogal laks. Blijkbaar zijn er nogal veel afbeeldingen met niet-commerciële beperkingen (het staat dikwijls niet vermeld bij de afbeelding zelf; je moet het dan zelf opzoeken op de website waarvan die afbeelding afkomstig is).

Op de Commons (en ook de en.wikipiddia) is de niet-commerciële beperking niet toegelaten (Noncommercial-only content is incompatible with other Wikimedia projects) en kunnen dergelijke afbeeldingen niet overgezet worden naar de Commons. (zie : Licensing).

Mijn vraag is nu : hoe zit het dan met het niet-commercieel gebruik op de nl.wikipedia. Opde overlegpagina van "Wikipedia:Beleid voor gebruik van media" is de laatste discussie hierover geweest in juli 2004. Is er sindsdien iets hieraan gewijzigd, of mag het nog steeds ? Zijn er hierover duidelijk regels bij de nl.wikipedia. Wordt er hier iets aan gedaan ? JoJan 15:20, 27 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Portaal:Oudheid
Beste Francis,

ik heb in de lijst Wikipedianen naar expertise gezien dat je wel interesse hebt voor de Oudheid. Ik ben momenteel bezig een portaal voor de Oudheid op te starten. Mijn vraag is dus of je zin hebt om mee te werken hieraan.

Evil Berry

Van harte welkom
Je bent nog steeds van harte welkom op nl om mee te doen met artikelen te schrijven en meediscussieren over beleid. Maar je begrijpt nog steeds niet waarom we zo reageerden op je. Je kwam alleen maar om te discussieren en om dingen te willen regelen. Zo gaat het niet in het leven helaas. Als je iemands huis binnenkomt laat men toch ook niet jou alles regelen en veranderen vanuit het niets, omdat jij vind dat het in jouw huidige huis beter geregeld is! Als je er een tijdje woont is het een andere zaak. Wat je hebt gedaan op nl is even cru als wanneer ik naar Schonken/Buijst (schrijf ik het goed?) wiki zou gaan en daar even de boel zou komen "regelen". Waerth 13:27, 22 May 2005 (UTC)

Furniture music
Zoals afgesproken hierbij mijn commentaar op jouw artikel Furniture music.

In het algemeen vind ik het een plezierig leesbaar en informatief stuk. Ik heb hier helaas geen geluidskaart ter beschikking, dus het stuk kan ik niet beluisteren. Desondanks toch een paar suggesties:
 * interwiki links kloppen niet. De Franse en Nederlandse artikelen bestaan niet.
 * weet ik, en ik ben er dus tegen die robotmatig te verwijderen: zowel de Franstalige als de Nederlandstalige vorm zijn zonder fout de naam die dat artikel daar in de toekomst zal krijgen, en er is voor beide talen een redelijke kans dat dat artikel er ooit komt. Eèn van die andere kleine irritaties opwekkende verhaaltjes is bijvoorbeeld inderdaad deze gerobotiseerde wijziging, waar ik nu voor het eerst iemands aandacht op trek (en liever over zwijg, maar dat neemt niet weg dat ik die wijziging geen goed idee vond).
 * De verwijzing naar MediaCommons zou ik weglaten, omdat er geen additionele bestanden beschikbaar zijn.
 * Ja, ik had eerst het bestand op Commons gezet (het staat er overigens nog), maar zal daar waarschijnlijk verwijderd worden omwille van licentiepolitiek (mijn frank was te laat gevallen) - op en:wikipedia kan het wel. Nu krijgt de "Commons"-pagina misschien nog andere inhoud, maar ik was ook al aan het denken dat indien het bestand volledig weg is in Commons dat de Commons-link in en:wikipedia misschien beter verdwijnt.
 * De namen van de secties sluiten niet mooi op elkaar aan. Satie en Revival zijn ongelijke begrippen. Misschien is het beter als je Satie en Cage gebruikt of Origin en Revival.
 * Er is geen impliciete of expliciete bedoeling sectie-namen te doen aansluiten. In Satie's tijd was het alleen Satie die Musique d'Ameublement componeerde. Cage was wel de eerste om dat te doen herleven, maar dat ging op in het geheel van het minimalisme, waarvan Cage maar èèn van de vertegenwoordigers was.
 * Daarnaast lijkt Revival te duiden op het feit dat er een periode is geweest dat er geen of nauwelijks furniture music is geweest, een periode van Decline dus. Ik mis daar wat info over. Komt dat omdat muzak populair werd en de furniture music verdrong, en zo ja waarom dan? Kosten misschien?
 * Ja, alle furniture music verdween (of beter: bleef) in de kast na de dood van Satie. Er is gèèn invloed op Muzak of andere soorten "achtergrondmuziek", vòòr Cage dat terug uit de kast haalde en o.a. Milhaud daar over ondervroeg. Eèn van Satie zijn "precursorisms" (zie Erik_Satie)
 * Verder is het stuk over Satie wat onevenwichtig, omdat (begrijpelijkerwijs) heel veel nadruk wordt gelegd op de tweede set. Het lijkt me echter dat er toch iets meer te vertellen valt over de eerste en de derde set. Over de eerste set is geschreven dat het niet is uitgevoerd tijdens Satie's leven. Dat roept (bij mij) de vraag op wanneer het dan wel is uitgevoerd, en wanneer de score gepubliceerd is. Over het derde stuk is geschreven dat er voor verzending naar Amerika geen uitvoering is geweest. Is het stuk later wel uitgevoerd, en ook nog in Europa? Zo ja wanneer dan?
 * Ja, dat zijn de punten waar ook Gillmor (die ik als bron gebruikte) ook redelijk over in het duister bleef. Maar 'k zal wel minstens toevoegen dat geen enkel van de partituren in z'n volledigheid uitgegeven werd tot enkele tientallen jaren nà het begin van de revival (noteer dat de bronnen die ik over publicatiedatums heb tegenstrijdig zijn, namelijk enerzijds Gillmor, en anderzijds deze op Orledge gebaseerde lijst, 't is dus een glibberig terrein).
 * Misschien is het beter om alle informatie over de verschillende sets bij elkaar te plaatsen? Misschien zelfs per set een subsectie?
 * Ik overwoog die mogelijkheid - ben er nog niet goed uit.
 * De verwijzing naar minimal music in het Satie gedeelte zou ik verplaatsen naar de Revival sectie. Dat is gelijk een mooie inleiding waarom Cage erin geinteresseerd was.
 * Nog mooier: Cage ontwikkelde het "minimal" idee eigenlijk maar goed na het bestuderen van Satie. Maar ik wou wel even duidelijk stellen dat het in de andere richting niet werkt: Satie staat al bij al redelijk ver van veel van de "minimal" ideeën, en dat er een gevaar is van Satie te veel door de bril van de minimalisten te bekijken.
 * Ik zou de naam van de lost comedy vermelden. Verder is het niet helemaal duidelijk of de tweede set specifiek geschreven is voor het doel om als Entr'acte te dienen voor dit stuk, of juist andersom, dat de opvoering van de lost comedy gebruikt is om als premiere te dienen voor de muziek. (Pff, dit is een lastig te omschrijven onderscheid). Ook de zin "gallery hosting the premiere" is hiervan afhankelijk. Premiere van wat precies: de muziek alleen of de muziek en de comedy of de muziek? Wat was bovendien eerder: de expositie of de muziek/de comedy? (Dus werd de gallery gekozen om de muziek te laten horen, of werd de muziek gekozen om de expositie te promoten?
 * Naam van de "Lost comedy" staat in Max Jacob artikel, maar vond ik zelf nogal irrelevant (persoonlijke appreciatie). De Max Jacob/Satie samenwerking is niet zo goed gedocumenteerd (ik vermoed om redenen die in het Max Jacob artikel vermeld staan - waarschijnlijk zijn een aantal stukken meegenomen/weggegooid door Jacob op de vlucht voor de Gestapo, en/of verloren gegaan toen hij gevat werd). Ik vrees dat over het soort samenwerking dat aan deze productie voorafging niet veel meer geweten is dan in het Furniture music artikel staat + de algemene ideeën over samenwerking tussen avant-gardisten die in het [[Les Six |Nouveaux Jeunes]] en het Erik Satie artikel staan. Er is achteraf veel over bijgefantaseerd dat ik totnogtoe niet door serieuze bronnen kon staven, dat is dan weer voor de volgende die aan dat artikel werkt.
 * Verwijzingen als "See also" vind ik persoonlijk erg lelijk. Zeker als in het aangehaalde artikel slechts 1 alinea van 4 regels staat. Ik zou het beter vinden als deze alinea wordt geintegreerd in dit stuk.
 * Ik vind "see also" in internetmedium best kunnen. Dat andere artikel staat hier al lang en je kan alles niet meteen doen (maar was inderdaad ook aan het denken het basisverhaal, waar door zovele amerikanen, Cage op kop, achteraf zo op los gefantaseerd is, over te brengen naar het Furniture music artikel). De context van het Entr'acte is ook wel belangrijk voor het inzicht waarom ze bij die eerste publieke voorstelling van Furniture music het publiek niet aan het praten & rondlopen kregen: het druiste te veel tegen de toen geldende gewoontes i.v.m. toneelmuziek in.

Nogmaals, zoals het nu al is, vind ik het een prima stuk, uitstekend ruim boven het gemiddelde artikel. Beschouw mijn opmerkingen maar als een soort finishing touch. nl:Gebruiker:Errabee 10:02, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

En bedankt, zoals je ziet kan ik er iets mee aanvangen om het artikel nog verder te gaan bijschaven. --Francis Schonken 15:18, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Voetnotensysteem
Dank je voor het overzetten! Phaunt 23:27, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

nl:Germanicus Julius Caesar
Ik heb net gezien dat je Germanicus Julius Caesar hebt uitgebreid met een stuk over Germanicus' plaats in de opvolging. Hierdoor is er echter een onevenwicht ontstaan met het stukje dat ik had toegevoegd over Germanicus in het oosten. Misschien wil je er eens een kijkje gaan nemen en kijken hoe we hier het best een mouw aan passen.

Evil berry

WikiProject Belgium
Hallo,

ik heb momenteel het initiatief genomen voor het nieuwe WikiProject Belgium, neem eens een kijkje en als je geïnteresseerd bent aarzel dan niet om je bij de deelnemers te zetten!

--Steven Fruitsmaak (Reply) 00:58, 1 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorteren van achternamen
Hoi Francis! Ik verbaasde me over de edits die enkele dagen geleden werden uitgevoerd op o.a. Paul de Leeuw, m.b.t. het sorteren van de namen in de categorieën. Nu blijkt dat jij in het verleden met behulp van deze wijziging een soort van beleidsbepalende regel hebt opgesteld. Mag ik je vragen hoe je hiertoe gekomen bent? Is dit een conclusie na bereikte consensus in een peiling? Ik vind het namelijk uiterst merkwaardig om de namen van Nederlanders zo te sorteren. Alvast dank voor je antwoord. Groet, Tubantia 20:40, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Ja dat is allemaal leuk en aardig, en ik ben het erover eens dat sommige (Nederlandse) namen inderdaad volgens "New Yorkse" wijze moeten worden gesorteerd, maar een echte "consensus" over de toepassing van Nederlandse namen is niet gevonden, naar mijn mening. Integendeel, in de meerderheid van de gevallen staan Nederlanders op de Nederlandse wijze gesorteerd. Een Franse naam als Antoine de Caunes gaat een Engelsman toch ook niet zoeken bij de D? Als ze dat wel doen, dan zoeken ze abusievelijk op Antoine De Caunes; en dat betekent automatischerwijze dat ze de juiste spelling van een naam niet kennen. Dit gebruik moet je juist niet in de hand gaan werken, anders gaat men in de toekomst zelfs het artikel over Vincent van Gogh nog hernoemen naar Vincent Van Gogh. Dit beleid vertoont gewoon absoluut geen logica, vanuit mijn optiek. Maargoed, ik denk niet dat ik in staat zal zijn om de "Engelstalige" Wikipedianen alhier daarvan te overtuigen. Tubantia 22:50, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * En ohja, over "onze" bondscoach: Marco van Basten is een Nederlander, en heeft nooit de Italiaanse nationaliteit gehad, dus ik zie niet in waarom de beste man in Italiaans verband opeens de Italiaanse wijze van naamgeving zou moeten krijgen. Tubantia 22:52, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Francis Schonken/Dutch


text:
Androtion

Androtion (Ἀνδροτίων, gen.: Ἀνδροτίωνος; before 405 – after 346 BC), was a Greek orator, and one of the leading politicians of his time. He was born between 415 and 405 BC, the son of Andron, who was a member of the Four Hundred and an associate of Theramenes. Androtion was probably Andron's first son, and seems to have inherited his fortune. In the late 390s or early 380s BC, he studied under Isocrates. He may have been the author of a work on agriculture which survives in fragmentary form.

Androtion began his political career not long before 385, and the first position we can place him as holding is that of epistates, some time in the 370s BC. Androtion held various other positions during his career, including governing Arkesine on Amorgos for at least two years up to 357–6, and being a member of the boule in 356/5 BC.

In 355–4, Androtion was brought to trial by Euktemon and Diodorus, accused of illegally proposing a crown be awarded to the Council of Five Hundred at the end of its term of office. The prosecution speech, composed by Demosthenes, survives as speech "Against Androtion", and it is a major source of information about his career up to this point. Androtion was acquitted, and was appointed as an ambassador to Mausolus, the ruler of Caria.

He is said to have gone into exile at Megara, and to have composed an Atthis, or annalistic account of Attica from the earliest times to his own days (Pausanias vi. 7; x. 8). It is disputed whether the annalist and orator are identical. Professor Gaetano De Sanctis (in L'Attide di Androzione e un papiro di Oxyrhynchos, Turin, 1908) attributes to Androtion, the Atthidographer, a 4th-century historical fragment, discovered by B. P. Grenfell and A. S. Hunt (Oxyrhynchus Papyri, vol. v.). Strong arguments against this view are set forth by E. M. Walker in the Classical Review, May 1908.

title: Androtion


text: Category:French nobility

title: Category:French nobility


text:
Talk:Marek Kac

The move to Marek Kac is away from the name by which he is commonly known.

Charles Matthews 07:32, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Marek Kac


text:
Sidalcea oregana var. calva

'Sidalcea oregana'' var. calva, the Wenatchee Mountains checker-mallow''', is a very rare flowering plant variety that occurs only in five locations in the Wenatchee Mountains of Chelan County, Washington, United States. The plant has been placed on the Endangered species list. As of 2004, the population of the species was 11,000 individual plants.

Sidalcea oregana var. calva is a perennial herb in the mallow family Malvaceae. The species has a stout taproot that branches at the rootcrown and gives rise to several stems that are 20 to 150 centimeters (8 to 60 inches) tall. Plant stems vary from glabrous (lacking hairs and glands) to pubescent (hairy) or stellate (with star-shaped hairs) below and are finely stellate above. The leaves are somewhat thick and fleshy with long petioles (leaf stalks). The leaves are dimorphic (have two forms) with the lower (basal) leaves having more shallow lobes. The flowers have light- to deep pink petals 1 to 2 centimeters (0.4 to 0.8 inch) long. The flowers are borne on stalks ranging from 1 to 10 millimeters (0.04 to 0.4 inch) in length. The calyx (outer whorl of floral parts) ranges from uniformly finely stellate to bristly with a mixture of longer, simple to four-rayed, spreading hairs sometimes as long as 2.5 to 3 millimeters (0.1 to 0.12 inch).

The inflorescence (arrangement of the flowers) consists of one to several loosely flowered racemes (stalked flowers arranged along a single stem) S. oregana var. calva is similar in appearance to S. oregana var. procera, which occurs in the same geographic region. S. oregana var. calva can be distinguished from var. procera by the presence of the hairs on the margins of the calyx lobes and by its large, somewhat fleshy, basal leaves, which are smooth to the touch on both surfaces.

The historical range covered an area of approximately 17.7 by 4.8 kilometers (11 by 3 miles), extending south-southeasterly from Leavenworth, Washington, to the area now known as Camas Meadows. Most of the historical records of this species are based upon occurrences in the Icicle and Peshastin Creek watersheds.

title: Sidalcea oregana var. calva


text:
User:Beebolini

Hello everyone! I've been a Wikipedian since late 2004. Not a whole lot to say other than that...

I'm located near Woodstock, Ontario, Canada

Not specific enough? OK! How about 43.18021°N, -80.65155°W

title: User:Beebolini


text: Category:1571 births

title: Category:1571 births


text:
Mana Māori Movement

The Mana Māori Movement was a New Zealand political party. It advocated on behalf of the Māori people. It was founded by Eva Rickard, a Māori activist. Rickard was originally a member of Mana Motuhake, another Māori party, but quit when Mana Motuhake joined the Alliance (a broad left-wing coalition). Rickard, believing that an independent Māori party was needed, founded Mana Māori in 1993.

The party contested the with 18 list candidates, and got 4070 votes (0.20%).

Rickard's daughter, Angeline Greensill later took over co-leadership of the Mana Māori Movement, the largest wholly Māori party contesting the 2002 New Zealand general election, and incorporated the smaller Te Tawharau and Piri Wiri Tua parties, but did not win any seats. The party received only 4,980 votes (0.25%) in 2002. The emergence of the new Māori Party, founded by sitting MP Tariana Turia, prompted the transfer of support from Mana Māori, and Greensill agreed to temporarily recess the party which was officially deregistered in 2005.

Greensill stood twice for the Māori Party before later joining the breakaway Mana Movement.

title: Mana Māori Movement


text: Category:1599 deaths

title: Category:1599 deaths