text:
Talk:Montgomery College

Rockville
The Rockville campus is not exactly geared toward liberal arts and fine arts.
 * How so? When I attended during 73-74 they had quite a bit for a community college including a little orchestra.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.16.197.122 (talk) 05:54, 12 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Please see Wikipedia's verifiability policy at WP:V. If a good source says MC Rockville is geared toward liberal arts and fine arts then that should be cited, otherwise the sentence should be removed. Sumguysr (talk) 18:03, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

transitioning to a four-year college
I hear talk about this, but can't find a source. Is it just a rumor? -VJ 06:27, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I highly doubt it to be honest. I couldn't find anything about it on their website either. Would be cool though if a B.S./B.A. could be attained through MC instead of an associates. Might tempt me to go back. :) --JOK3R 13:50, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

yes, it is true: transfering to UMD from Mont College Pat Semple (talk) 04:20, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

Sarah Silberman Art Gallery Merger proposal
I second the motion for the merger. The Sarah Silberman Art Gallery is not notable in and of itself. NickCT (talk) 17:45, 6 January 2011 (UTC)

 * Agreed, it's not notable and shouldn't have its own article. Sumguysr (talk) 18:03, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Montgomery College Libraries Merger Proposal
I second the call to merge the Montgomery College Libraries article with this one. I doubt there will ever be so much notable and verifiable information about the libraries that it won't work in a section in this article, and if such a time does come it wouldn't be very difficult to unmerge them. Sumguysr (talk) 18:03, 10 March 2011 (UTC)

Yes, time to merge the pages. Pat Semple (talk) 04:13, 27 June 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 7 one external links on Montgomery College. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20081205020648/http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/news/News_Archives/news06210501.html to http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/news/News_Archives/news06210501.html
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110601193124/http://jwa.org/weremember/silberman to http://jwa.org/weremember/silberman
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20080307232323/http://www.montgomerycollege.edu:80/Departments/inplrsh/caveat.html to http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/Departments/inplrsh/caveat.html
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20100529195331/http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/Departments/academicevp/expo/expo.html to http://www.montgomerycollege.edu/Departments/academicevp/expo/expo.html
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20100612095506/http://insidemc.montgomerycollege.edu/showStory.php?id=14482 to http://insidemc.montgomerycollege.edu/showStory.php?id=14482
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110716053324/http://www.njcaa.org/sports.cfm?sid=44&divid=1&gender=w&slid=25&menu=22&smenu=recordbook&recordmasterselect=1264&recordmasterselect2=1268 to http://www.njcaa.org/sports.cfm?sid=44&divid=1&gender=w&slid=25&menu=22&smenu=recordbook&recordmasterselect=1264&recordmasterselect2=1268
 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20110716053549/http://www.njcaa.org/sports.cfm?sid=14&divid=3&gender=m&slid=6&menu=22&smenu=recordbook&recordmasterselect=966&recordmasterselect2=970 to http://www.njcaa.org/sports.cfm?sid=14&divid=3&gender=m&slid=6&menu=22&smenu=recordbook&recordmasterselect=966&recordmasterselect2=970

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External links modified
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Carver Junior College
Carver Junior College was established in 1950 as a post-secondary school for African-Americans, inasmuch as Montgomery Junior College was segregated. There's an existing Wikipedia page George Washington Carver High School (Rockville, Maryland), but there had not been any reference to Carver from Montgomery College, even though the Carver location would ultimately become the Montgomery College Rockville campus (and Carver Junior College refers to the school in Florida, without offering any pointer to the "Carver High School" page).

Here are some sources for Carver:
 * Montgomery College in Its Formative Years
 * History of Carver High School & Junior College
 * Carver Connection
 * Historic Rockville: George Washington Carver High School and Junior College
 * Digital Maryland: Carver Junior College students at work
 * Carver High School Historic District
 * From Segregation to Integration: Two Black Teachers Look Back
 * The Decision That Changed Everything
 * George Washington Carver Junior College Historical Marker

recent edits of 22 June 2021
There are a few problems associated with the edits of 22 June 2021:
 * issues with English mechanics
 * a significant problem with the coat of arms
 * issues regarding neutral point of view and undue emphasis

I consider each of the above items to be a significant problem, but I'll specifically elaborate on the "undue emphasis" issue. I am not here to try and defend MC. However, we don't need so much text to describe the fact that one person abused their travel expense privileges. The intricate details of the excessive spending are not needed; this could have been summarized in a sentence or two, particularly since a good citation was available. But wait, there's more! This is a story from 5 years ago. Sure, it absolutely belongs in the article, but instead of leaving us thinking that there's some ongoing brouhaha, the reader would like to know how this was resolved.

There's also a pretty glaring example of self-serving content in something which reads like a press release. I guess I'd call this both a case of WP:UNDUE and WP:NPOV.

Whether or not any representative of MC had anything to do with these recent edits, I don't know. Still, they're an embarrassment to the college. Fabrickator (talk) 09:38, 23 June 2021 (UTC)

 * I agree with the controversy aspect being too long, when I had been editing it I had thought it was best to include a lot of details, but I think less is more. It's possible a full page could be made itself going deep into the investigate, but it doesn't need a lot of detail on the main page. Chrisisreed (talk) 15:47, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

 * The controversy issue is much better now, there are still the "English mechanics" issues (demonstrate that you understand the difference between "plurals" and "possessives").

 * Is the last sentence written as intended? (If I have to scratch my head, then something is wrong!) (Fabrickator) 18:00, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Just a reminder that the "English mechanics" issue is still present, along with the question of what is the intended meaning of the statement that "none of the charges were unjust." Fabrickator (talk) 07:33, 3 July 2021 (UTC)

 * This pertains to the content that had been in the "Controversy" section, now moved to the end of "History". This gives the impression that we are trying to hide the controversy, which raises the issue of NPOV.  I feel it would be best to restore the "Controversy" section, albeit somewhere before the "Notable persons" section rather than after.
 * Aside from that, I have previously raised the question about the proper interpretation of the "charges" being "unjust", or after the most recent edit, "unjustified". There is no reason to force the reader to think hard about what the article is saying, and I find myself having to guess about it!  Please explain this, and then perhaps you can proffer a better wording.
 * One last thing, I would ask what connections, if any, you have with Montgomery College. Speaking for myself, I attended elementary/junior high/high school in the Montgomery County Public Schools (that was in the 1960s), but I never took any courses at MJC/MC. Fabrickator (talk) 19:07, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

 * For the placement of this material, it might be helpful to take a look at this essay and our advice about college and university articles. In brief, controversies are part of the history of colleges and universities and should be presented as such with historical context and not segregated into separate sections as if they're isolated events disconnected from the institution's history. I am especially unsympathetic to placing controversies into a separate section at or near the end of the article as it does often appear as if editors are trying to downplay or hide them from readers.
 * I don't know much about this institution or this specific controversy so I don't really know if this is important enough to warrant inclusion in the article at all. I am concerned, however, that it may be undue weight to spend any time and space on something that has only one source especially if the news report had no significant, lasting impact. ElKevbo (talk) 19:59, 5 July 2021 (UTC)

(subsequent discussion of the college president's reimbursed expenses has been moved to )

MC Shield
There are two Montgomery College shields on Wikipedia File:MC SEAL.jpg and File:Montgomery College Shield.png. I uploaded the second one because I found one of bigger and better size. But I just want to make sure they're appropriate. Chrisisreed (talk) 15:52, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I guess I'm being too obscure with some of my comments. The problem with the coat of arms is there aren't any arms!  There's no swords, no shield, no armor, no horses.  A "lamp of knowledge" doesn't cut it. (This issue actually goes back to the June 1 edits.) Fabrickator (talk) 18:00, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

Notable people
A. If everybody on the list has a wiki page, then why would it be required to include "additional citations"?

B. It seems weird that "Notable people" precedes "Controversy".

Fabrickator (talk) 18:00, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

college president's expenditures

I thought any further discussion about the college president's expenditures should not continue in a section titled "recent edits of 22 June 2021", so I have created this new section.

I particularly wanted to address a statement which left the impression that there was "only one source" for this story. It's true that this was NBC 4's story. However, the story was picked up on by other local media (such as Montgomery County Sentinel and Bethesda Magazine). More significantly, a report was issued by the Inspector General, which, though finding nothing "wrong" with the decisions, made recommendations to improve transparency.

I think many students (and the general public as well) would wonder about the president of a publicly-funded institution receiving a "housing allowance" on top of a seemingly generous salary, and whether travel may sometimes be motivated by the desire to serve the interests of the college or by the opportunity for travel on the county's dime.

Perhaps the nature of this "controversy" sets it apart from other types of controversies, perhaps not. One point I would make is, if there's no mention of this in the article, it seems likely that somebody will periodically "discover" this story, adding it to the article, resulting in revisiting this discussion, presuming that it is omitted from the article. Fabrickator (talk) 04:45, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
 * Can you please provide those additional sources? Thanks! ElKevbo (talk) 05:34, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Here you go (these are arranged in no particular order):

 * NBC 4

 * Higher Ed Dive
 * Inside Higher Ed
 * Max for Rockville
 * Montgomery Sentinel
 * EAG News
 * Bethesda Magazine
 * WMAL-FM
 * Rockville High School Rampage
 * documentcloud.org (record of actual charges)
 * MyMcMedia (Pollard's response to NBC 4 story)
 * Daily Caller (Pollard's response)
 * Office of the Inspector General
 * MyMcMedia (Inspector General's findings)
 * International Journal for Educational Integrity (regarding similar incident with earlier MC President Brian Johnson)

 * Fabrickator (talk) 07:56, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

 * I agree that the controversy should be naturally be worked into the history section of the article. There were plenty of news sources the covered the scandal since MC is one of the largest community college in the DC Metropolitan area. Off hand I know even the Washington Post ended up covering it. In regards of lasting effects nothing really changed at the college. I know this probably sounds biased but as a student who was attending at the time of the scandal it was very apparent that the school was just trying to keep their head down until it passed.Chrisisreed (talk) 14:44, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

Tuition
User:ElKevbo — Can you elaborate on the reasons for removing information on tuition that appears to meet NPOV, NOR, and V? Other than it’s not encyclopedic? See WP:UNENC. CUA 27 (talk) 02:05, 20 April 2022 (UTC)
 * WP:NOT. We are not obligated nor do we want to include all information in an article even if it is well-sourced and neutral. There is a lot of information, particularly detailed information that is complex and frequently changes, that we omit from articles and leave to the subject's own publications. A broad overview of costs may be helpful for readers; detailed information that quickly falls out of date is not. ElKevbo (talk) 02:16, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

 * I understand what you're saying. But I don't see how it applies here, as the information I added is neither overly detailed nor complex, nor outdated. Contrary to your apparent view, WP:UNIGUIDE says it is appropriate to include information on costs. Since your view appears contrary to consensus, I will plan to add that back in, but not right away so as to give you the courtesy of some time to respond if you so choose. CUA 27 (talk) 19:33, 20 April 2022 (UTC)

 * That portion of the advice appears to be out of step with practice as few articles include information about tuition and fees. It's information that quickly becomes outdated. More importantly, it's usually much, much more complicated than most editors and readers realize with most institutions charging different students different tuitions e.g., tuition discounting. ElKevbo (talk) 11:46, 21 April 2022 (UTC)

Not only does WP:UNIGUIDE endorse including information about tutition costs, some of the best articles in the WikiProject do the same. See, as just one example, the featured article Pomona College, which appeared on Wikipedia's main page earlier this month, and which the WP:COLLEGE WikiProject considers a showcase article. It describes tuition and costs, while mentioning the availability of financial aid (discounts). Further, if you think information is complex (which this isn't really), the better approach is to explain it in the text rather than remove it from the text. CUA 27 (talk) 12:31, 22 April 2022 (UTC)

 * I genuinely encourage you to look at more articles about US colleges and universities; very, very few of them include this information. To the best of my knowledge, the only significant outliers are articles about law schools as one editor has spent a lot of time adding information from the information that their accreditor requires to be publicly available. Most other articles omit this information. (I think the Pomona article is a particular outlier as it was the recent focus of a push to get it cleaned up for its inclusion on the front page; take a look at the articles that were recently demoted from Featured status and note that outdated information and a general lack of maintenance were primary factors in the decisions to delist them.)
 * Further, in most cases this information is complex and much of that complexity is intentionally hidden by the institution. Please take a few moments to explore the concept of tuition discounting, the practice of publishing a "sticker price" but then giving various discounts to so many students that the average cost is only about half of that advertised price (it's called a "sticker price" as an explicit parallel to the practices of selling cars, another famously opaque interaction). You also need to consider fees and typical cost of living, two other areas that are often opaque and sometimes misleading. All of this, of course, has been the subject of scholarly study and much criticism and you shouldn't have any trouble finding examples of that.
 * I do think it's worthwhile, as it is in all cases, to include information about tuition and fees that is relevant and meaningful for readers. If, for example, the institution has a needs-blind admission policy (for all applicants or perhaps for all applicants whose families make less than a particular threshold), a commitment to meet all financial need with grants and work study instead of loans, or a commitment to keep tuition and fees constant for some period of time, that is information that is important, clear, and unlikely to fall out of date any time soon and thus something we should include. But we should not be misleading readers with information that isn't meaningful for most of them - see, again, "tuition discounting" - nor should we be setting ourselves up to fail readers by including information that we are unlikely to keep updated (this is an encyclopedia, not an admissions brochure). ElKevbo (talk) 13:00, 22 April 2022 (UTC)
 * (Coming from the notice at WT:HED) I have to side with  here—a college's tuition price is pretty essential information, and even at the risk of it becoming outdated (which is the same for e.g. the endowment), I think we ought to include it.
 * For updating, we can take a few approaches to mitigate the risk. First, we can use As of and/or Update after so that out-of-date information will be tagged. Second, we can source it (at least mostly) from Wikidata, where it can be updated annually in bulk from databases, as I did for Pomona's article. I agree that it's complex information, but we have the ability to contextualize and to summarize to make it simpler. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 15:40, 25 April 2022 (UTC)
 * How do you square this with our policy about what Wikipedia is not: "An article should not include product pricing or availability information (which can vary widely with time and location) unless there is an independent source and encyclopedic significance for the mention, which may be indicated by mainstream media sources or books (not just product reviews) provide commentary on these details instead of just passing mention." ElKevbo (talk) 01:38, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Your quote follows from the topic sentence of "Neither articles nor their associated talk pages are for conducting the business of the topic of the article". That clearly has no applicability to this discussion, as no editors suggesting inclusion of the information are attempting to use this article for that purpose. CUA 27 (talk) 01:56, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Local consensus cannot override project-wide consensus; the essay WP:UNIGUIDE cannot override the policy WP:NOT. I recommend a wider discussion and perhaps an explicit RFC to definitively settle the matter.
 * Those who wish to include this kind of informaiton may find it helpful to focus on the second part of the quote included above: "...unless there is an independent source and encyclopedic significance for the mention, which may be indicated by mainstream media sources or books (not just product reviews) provide commentary on these details instead of just passing mention." That means that simply referencing the institution's own materials is not sufficient; you need to find where others have explicitly discussed this information. ElKevbo (talk) 12:11, 27 April 2022 (UTC)
 * CUA 27 and I seem to interpret WP:NOT differently than you do, ElKevbo. And overall, I think we should focus more on arguments for what readers will/won't find useful. We could discuss at WT:HED if you'd like to move to a broader forum, and hopefully we won't need an RfC. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 17:02, 27 April 2022 (UTC)

A question of focus
I think it's time to review the weighting of the different areas covered in this article, including both information about current operation of the college as well as historical information. Speak up if this is of interest to you. Fabrickator (talk) 21:23, 1 December 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Montgomery College


text:
Category:Scottish novelists

This category lists novelists who originated from Scotland or spent a notable part of their careers in Scotland.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Category:Scottish novelists


text:
Pig in a poke

A pig in a poke is a thing that is bought without first being inspected, and thus of unknown authenticity or quality. The idiom is attested in 1555:

A "poke" is a sack, so the image is of a concealed item being sold.

Starting in the 19th century, this idiom was explained as a confidence trick where a farmer would substitute a cat for a suckling pig when bringing it to market. When the buyer discovered the deception, he was said to "let the cat out of the bag", that is, to learn of something unfortunate prematurely, hence the expression "letting the cat out of the bag", meaning to reveal that which is secret. The French idiom acheter (un) chat en poche and the Dutch een kat in de zak kopen and also the German die Katze im Sack kaufen (all: to buy a cat in a bag) refer to an actual scam of this nature, as do many other European equivalents, while the English expression refers to the appearance of the trick. The English idiom "sold a pup" refers to a similar con. Other variations include "buy a fish in water" (Arabic), "buy a cow on another mountain" (Chinese), "buy in a closed box" (Italian) and "buy a cat instead of a hare" (Iberian languages).

In common law, buyers have the right to inspect goods before purchase.

Etymology
A poke is a sack or bag, from French poque, which is also the etymon of "pocket", "pouch", and "poach". Poke is still in regional use. Pigs were formerly brought to market for sale in a cloth bag, a poke.

Use in popular culture
In the April 1929 edition of the literary magazine The London Aphrodite, a story by Rhys Davies, titled "A Pig in a Poke", was published, in which a Welsh coal miner takes a woman from London for his wife and regrets it.

In the 1985 film National Lampoon's European Vacation, the Griswold family wins the vacation on a game show called "Pig in a Poke".

title: Pig in a poke


text: User talk:24.21.144.145

title: User talk:24.21.144.145


text:
User:ZeaLitY

Hey. I run the Chrono Compendium, http://www.chronocompendium.com, a Chrono series Wiki devoted to tracking and chronicling absolutely every last bit of knowledge about the series, including musical/artistic/literary stuff. Being with the project has given me a near-complete mastery of the plots of the games.

title: User:ZeaLitY


text:
Talk:Treadmill

momentum
I am not too informed on the science - but could someone write something about momentum, or lack thereof - how this affects the speed you run on treadmill... --[[User:OldakQuill|Oldak Quill]] 19:28, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Load motors?
"Some treadmills have load motors" — What does this line mean? Should that be "loud motors"? Coffee 05:45, 30 October 2005 (UTC)

It should be "loud" motors. Actually, the weight and running style of the user has at least as much effect on total noise as the motor does.RobertBraun (talk) 21:46, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

Help me please:

can some one let me know as what features must be looked when buying a tread mill?

I don't knwow any thing about the treadmill but am willing to buy one for me.

rajkantsharma@yahoo.com

Raj, Since different kinds of treadmills are designed for different uses and different users, it's more productive to ask the question as "what features do I need?" The typical treadmill is designed for the needs of the typical user. Typical use means light jogging several times per week for up to an hour each time by someone who weighs under 250 lbs. Typical features include cushioned belt, incline capability, and readouts for heart rate, distance, time, and calories. See http://www.treadmill-world.com/treadmill-buying-tips.html. — Preceding unsigned comment added by RobertBraun (talk • contribs) 21:46, 23 August 2009 (UTC)

A load motor is engineer lingo for a motor that offers resistance or drag, and allows the user to set the speed of the belt or the effort needed to move the belt. Might wish to use a more common term. Bobpage (talk) 05:15, 9 March 2013 (UTC)

removed claim about professional cyclists
Removed: "When professional cyclists are tested they will use their own bicycles (instead of a bike machine) on a treadmill." When professional cyclists are tested they use their own bicycles on an indoor trainer, not a treadmill. FreplySpang (talk) 00:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Treadmill vs. Running
If you run on a treadmill at a constant speed, that SHOULD be about the same as running outdoors. I have heard that setting the treadmill to a 1% incline should make up for the lack of wind resistance. My experience is that running fast on a treadmill is amazingly easier than running outside. The question is, why? (The person above who thinks the explanation is psychological seems to not be a runner who has had this experience.) Basic physics says that they should be about the same. It is hard to believe that the shock-absorbing features of the treadmill make that much difference. Is it possible that the makers of the gym equipment are cheating, intentionally mis-calibrating the equipment to make people think that they are doing better than they really are? Has anyone ever tested the true speeds of treadmills? Are there any good websites that go into all of these complicated details? Do serious runners train on treadmills?-69.87.204.41 23:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I think the treadmill allows you to run at a near-constant speed and much of the inefficiency of running comes from letting yourself slow down and having to accelerate again. Perhaps if you established that the treadmill was actually moving at say, X feet per second, and you set it high enough so that you'd be running fast enough to be able to replicate it fairly smoothly outdoors, it would be a fair comparison?  Also, if it really does turn out to be easier, I'd just increase the incline or speed, depending on what seemed to simulate it better.  If your HR is up, it's up.  Training the muscles needed specifically for running, as a sport, is a different matter.  Actually running might be the best way to train for running. 72.223.90.137 22:28, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

 * On a big fancy treadmill at the YMCA, I can run at a sustained 9MPH, mile after mile -- or even faster! It would be wonderful if I could run that fast outside, on the street -- but I doubt that I can.  Running outside is better in many ways, but running on a hard surface seems to wear out the joints, could be a serious problem.  (Most of us that run outside do not have access to special soft running track surfaces.)  So training at least some on a treadmill seems like it would protect your body from damage.  But it would be good to understand the relationship between the two forms of training better, to be able to train inside for races outside.  They are both "running", but there seems to be some subtle, mysterious difference.-69.87.204.227 12:42, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

 * I have just started exercising on a treadmill and am pretty amazed by my own performance (ie that I can perform at all), as someone who has always pretty much panicked when required to jog "IRL". At my absolute beginner level, I believe the difference is primarily psychological: you have absolute control on a treadmill, at any point you can 'change the landscape' in response to any desire or discomfort, and in are in a relatively secure environment (if in a gym, surrounded by professionals) - this I think provides a sort of 'safe space' that enables you start with a better feeling of confidence and maybe even push yourself a bit more. Yes, if you run, you can stop if you get tired, but I think we tend to treat a real hill as a stronger obligation (ie more 'face' to lose if we stop) than a number on a machine. Also, no matter how far or fast you run on a treadmill, you're no further from home than when you start out! That has to add to the sense of reassurance.

 * On a more physical note, I don't think anyone has mentioned the physical effort in the changes of direction involved in outside jogging: corners, dodging pedestrians, crossing roads etc. From my very fuzzy memory of physics I believe a change of direction is equivalent to an acceleration from an inertial standpoint? And would engage different/more muscles (eg obliques?)? Running round a track would effectively involve constant change of direction and thus at the very least engage a larger set of muscles than treadmill running and at most if my physics is right a perpetual change in velocity?124.170.238.154 (talk) 05:22, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

The fact that the treadmill is moving and not the runner makes no difference in a physical sense. What matters is that the runner is moving relative to the treadmill, just as a runner on the ground is moving relative to the ground. Since people have difficulty with this concept it helps to do some thought experiments: xD

 * The floor of a bus is also moving very fast relative to the ground but it doesn't take a herculean effort to walk to the front of the bus, nor is it easier to walk from the front to the back while it is moving. The same can be said about an airplane.

 * Picture a very, very long treadmill, like they have at airports in the form of moving walkways. Stand on the treadmill but don't run. You will move along with it. To get back to where you started you'll have to walk/run at the same speed as the treadmill and it won't feel any different than walking on the ground at the same speed for an equal amount of time.

There are tiny differences, like the energy it takes to get up to speed, which is minimal, and the force of wind resistance, which is a true difference. Also, treadmills can be quite soft and springy, but some running tracks are soft as well. That people agree that running on a treadmill is easier than running outside is a topic that belongs in the realm of sports psychology. I invite others with a grasp of basic physics to help put this myth to rest.

I think that difference between running on a treadmill and running outside is not a topic that belongs in the realm of sports psychology. For example, I can simple jump upright on a treadmill and this move will be the same as running, because in both case I will move with the same velocity with respect to treadmill. When I move by all means with respect to treadmill my centre of gravity is moving with treadmill velocity. But my motion is more complicated than centre of gravity motion. Human body has more degree of freedom than one.72.245.155.59 22:19, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * No, you can't jump onto an already fast-moving treadmill and instantaneously start running, if you are unable to accelerate that quickly. You will fall back (I've tried that). Anyway, in this case, being unable to accelerate is due to the friction by which the belt drags your shoes back, not to inertia, as your momentum will stay constant with respect to an inertial reference frame (such as the ceiling). --Army1987 19:50, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Running on a treadmill is much easier than real running. The runner is not moving with regard to the treadmill, it is the belt which is moving, and the belt is moving due to the electric motor. The only parts of the runner which are moving are the legs. Real running requires acceleration of the whole body mass. And running up a gradient is only difficult on a treadmill because of the awkwardness of the gait; running up a hill requires that the runner moves their body weight against gravity. Jonathan Webley 14:33, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

 * This only occurs when accelerating. Marching at a constant speed on a horizontal treadmill is the same thing as doing the same on a road, except for air resistance and the fact that the surface of the belt is more regular than asphalt. And anyway, when walking (as opposed to running), inertia plays a very small role compared to friction (as you can accelerate from zero to the max speed you can reach without running, and decelerate from that to zero, within not much more than one or two steps). There are significant differences only in the case of quick accelerations, as, with respect to an inertial frame of reference, you have to gain momentum and kinetic energy only in the case of the road ant not in that of the treadmill. --Army1987 19:50, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

 * "Marching at a constant speed on a horizontal treadmill is the same thing as doing the same on a road, except for air resistance and the fact that the surface of the belt is more regular than asphalt." Nope. When you are running or walking you are, with each step, accelerating your body to maintain your forward momentum, working against gravity, air resistance and all the other factors that get in the way of Newtons first law of motion in the terrestrial world. When you are on a treadmill you have no consequential forward momentum, though you are still working against gravity (the bouncy pogo-like motion part of the stride). Almost all of the exercise you get from a treadmill are from miming the action of running. I would say that you are in fact NOT running at all, but actually using the treadmill to more accurately mimic the stride of a runner while running in place(which is not running either). It works like this: When you propel yourself forward from a dead stop(say, to jump forward) you are accelerating the mass of your body to a certain speed. Even in a vacuum in space with zero gravity and no air resistance at all this would take effort. The momentum created by this effort would never fade, and you would continue on forever at that speed in a total vacuum with no gravity. But we are on earth and the momentum is slowed by many things, like atmospheric resistance and the way gravity alters your trajectory. So when we run(or walk), we are constantly adding to our momentum to replace what is lost to those factors. And THAT is why treadmilling is only 90%(at most) as good a workout as running. The relativity of the bus, or ship or plane or whatever you want to state doesn't change the fact that when you run you are constantly maintaining momentum. The difference is subtle but noticeable. Try running on the deck of a cruise ship(they usually have one deck that they allow running on), then go up to the treadmill at the gym(they also tend to have these) and try it. It is the same as the difference between the two on land. Gravastar333 (talk) 23:55, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

 * I have to agree that, based upon my understanding, running on a treadmill is essentially exactly the same as running on the road with the exception of air resistance (which causes an increasing difference between treadmill running and outdoor running the faster you go). That said, the cruise ship example is a good one for explaining why they're the same.

 * A) I think everyone agrees that running on the deck of a ship is "real running" regardless of what the ship is doing (whether it's going in the same direction as you at 20mph or in the opposite direction at 20mph). On the deck we would encounter air resistance but, as mentioned earlier, this is the only substantive difference between being on a treadmill and on the ground. If you don't believe me that running on a moving object doesn't cause your legs to move for you, imagine running on an airplane -- your legs don't get thrust to the back of the plane at 500mph.

 * B) Let's imagine we're running on the deck of a ship at 10mph while the ship moves in the opposite direction as we are at a steady 10mph. As noted in (A) above, this is the same as running on the ground if there were no air resistance.

 * C) Let's imagine that there's a bridge over the cruise ship -- while I run at 10mph to the rear of the ship and while the ship moves forward at 10mph I would notice that if I started running while the bridge was directly overhead it would stay directly overhead until I reach the end of the ship and can't run any further. If I were close enough to the bridge, I could even hold onto it and this would help me get to the back of the ship since I wouldn't need to use as much force to keep my body off the ground. As noted in (B) above, this is the same (A) and therefore the same as running on the road. The only difference is that now there's a thing hanging in air over me the whole time.

 * D) Now let's imagine that the cruise ship is travelling at 10mph under the bridge but the deck of the bridge is completely flat, the water is extremely placid, and the ship manages to stay only a single centimeter under the bridge as it passes under. On the bridge we've cut a hole the same shape as a treadmill belt and around it we've placed what looks like a treadmill. The ship is moving at a constant 10mph toward the back of our fake treadmill. I manage to make contact with the ship's deck through this hole in the ground and run at a constant 10mph (it would be next to impossible to just "hop on" -- so it would probably be easier to lower myself onto the ship's deck using the fake treadmill's handles to help out). Remember, though -- I'm still running from the front of the ship to the back of the ship (just like in (C) above) - the only difference being that I'm doing it through a hole in the bridge. That said, since I'm running on the deck of the ship just like in (C) above, which is the same as (B) and (A), it's the same as running on the ground if there were no air resistance.

 * E) Now let's say that instead of the ship's deck which is moving to the back of the fake treadmill at a constant 10mph I replace it with a treadmill belt travelling in the same direction at 10mph. I get on the moving treadmill with the help of the fake treadmill handles (since just hopping on a moving treadmill is a recipe for disaster). There is no difference between being on this belt moving backwards at 10mph and being on the deck of a ship in the same spot moving at 10mph. They're both just surfaces I'm in contact with that are moving 10mph at a constant rate -- the fact that one is a belt and one is a ship's deck doesn't change the way my body interacts with it. So, that being said, in the absence of wind resistance, E=D=C=B=A -- running on a treadmill is the same as running on the ground.

 * Also, to quickly address the idea that the treadmill "pulls your legs back for you:" the next time you're running outside, try to stop mid-stride. That is, the second you put your foot down in front of you, stop right then and there without "pulling your leg back" or anything like that. You'll notice something happens -- your body falls forwards over the leg in front of you. Or, to put that in other terms, your leg is "pulled back" by the ground behind until it's behind your body. This is the same as what happens on the treadmill. In this case, the inertia of your stationary body over the moving treadmill belt causes the same effects as the momentum of your moving body over the stationary Earth.

According to the laws of physics, running on a treadmill is exactly the same as running on the ground at the same speed (apart from air drag). However, this assumes that the treadmill belt has a constant speed which is not necessarily the case. Each time you hit the ground, you push the belt forward and this can slow down the motor. You also push the belt onto the surface below, increasing the friction which slows down the motor. The reverse (motor speeds up temporarily) happens when you push off and lift your foot off the belt. These speed variations, which are synchronized with the ground reaction forces, allow transfer of mechanical energy from the treadmill motor to the runner and this makes running easier. This does not happen in the cruise ship analogy because the speed of the ship is not affected by the runner, and it does not happen in a treadmill with a large motor and a perfect speed control system. In cheaper treadmills, these speed variations would be larger and make running easier. Reference: Schamhardt HC, van den Bogert AJ, Lammertink JLMA. Power transfer from treadmill engine to athlete. Proc. 8th biennial conference of the Canadian Society for Biomechanics, 1994:306–307. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:8ED2:59D0:95A2:8D43:3A84:E446 (talk) 23:13, 6 May 2018 (UTC)

Another Disavantage
One disadvantage to running on a treadmill is that the machine pulls your foot back instead of you physically doing the work. This isn't really a big deal for long distance runners, but highspeed treadmills for sprinters only allow your to do half the work. When you put your foot down the machine pulls it back so all you have to do is pull your other foot forward, which means that you don't apply the pushing action of the back foot that you get running on a track or road. (- College Athlete) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.133.208.136 (talk) 03:42, 11 February 2007 (UTC).

 * When you're running on a road, and your foot touches the pavement, does the road not tend to pull your foot back the same way a treadmill would? Think about coefficient of friction and normal force (gravity times mass when standing still). 72.223.90.137 04:05, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

 * No, it doesn't. Not if you are adding or maintaining speed. If you are sprinting you are using your muscles to push against the ground from the moment your feet touch down at the beginning of the stride till the moment you lift it because you have reached the end of the stride. It is NOT the same. Gravastar333 (talk) 00:01, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

 * Just wanted to hop in here to bust the "treadmills pull your legs back" myth. First off, if you don't use your muscles to push against the moving treadmill belt (i.e. you just stand there), you fall off the back of the treadmill. Second, if you're sprinting and try to immediately stop without slowing down, you'll fall over. That is: your legs will be pulled back relative to your upper body -- the same thing that happens if you try to stop suddenly on a treadmill. Picture this: you're running on the deck of a cruise ship. The only difference between a moving cruise ship deck and a moving treadmill belt is that you have to deal with wind resistance -- the motion of the boat isn't moving your legs forward or backward for you, which is why (ignoring wind resistance) it doesn't matter how fast the boat is moving. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1702:39C0:29D0:DC05:6A0B:8E3B:316F (talk) 02:59, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

 * a) This is complete and utter nonsense from someone who clearly knows nothing about physics. b) It is completely irrelevant to Wikipedia -- this is not a blog. There's so much of this sort of junk on this page, with one guy even asking for advice in buying treadmills. -- Jibal (talk) 02:26, 31 December 2021 (UTC)

Relaxed running
Because running on a treadmill is a very different situation, the user can focus on relaxing, or different parts of the body, or changing their form/motions -- very different from running outside, possibly useful for Chi Running.-69.87.204.41 23:32, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Holding on
The option of being able to hold on to a treadmill may be an advantage, if the user is in need of that help. But from a physics/energy/calorie point of view, it completely changes the exercise -- sort of like being towed.-69.87.204.141 18:18, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Running bad for knees?
I heard that running on treadmill is bad for your knees, or is it only if you have a knee injury? (my mom's doctor told her not to run on treadmills 'cause she hurt her knee)

Plane Treadmill problem.
Plane on a treadmill.

Can it take off? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Colinspocket (talk • contribs) 10:19, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

No, it can not! In order to fly (take off) airplane needs to develop certain airspeed. If plane is "rolling" on a treadmill which matches its wheel's speed than treadmill eliminates any real movement and thus eliminates airspeed. Without airspeed, wings (airfoils) are not providing lift and airplane stays on ground (on treadmill). Note: We are talking about "regular" fixed wing airplanes without VTOL capabilities. I suggest removal of this incorrect statement on a treadmill article. Tomica (talk) 20:22, 10 July 2008 (UTC)

Simply put, you need the WINDSPEED passing an airplane to make it fly. The air is what allows the plane to fly, not the speed that objects pass below it. Gba111 (talk) 07:45, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

 * I'm not quite sure why this discussion is here, but as long as it is... Yes, an airplane on a treadmill will take off.  An airplane's thrust is generated by propellers or jet engines, not the friction of the wheels against the ground (or in this case, a treadmill) like a car's is.  Thus the thrust is completely independent of an airplane's ground speed.  What will happen is that as the propeller or jet pushes the airplane forward, the treadmill will cause the wheels to rotate twice as fast as they would on a normal runway.  If you need proof, there was an episode of MythBusters in which they tackled this precise issue.  They put an airplane on a long tarp, and pulled the tarp with a truck in the opposite direction of the airplane at the airplane's ground speed.  It accelerated and took off as if it were on normal ground. --TonyV (talk) 02:47, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

"Treadmill increases your VO2 max" - dubious
I understand this section as "advantages/disadvantages compared to outdoor running" (it would hardly make sense otherwise), but running will increase your VO2max whether you use a treadmill or not. Moreover, all aerobic activities could be said to increase one's VO2max, so even if this comparison is not limited to outdoor/treadmill difference, it still does not make much sense. GregorB (talk) 17:01, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

I think conceiving the advantages and disadvantages as being over simply not having a treadmill at all. What are the advantages to having and using a treadmill? What are the disadvantages to having and using a treadmill? In this capacity, an advantage of using the treadmill is an increase in VO2 max, burning calories, etc, similarly to running. It might seem redundant to write out all the individual advantages of running in this section, since you ARE running, but it's still more complete than simply writing "all advantages / disadvantages of running" or some similar note. Gba111 (talk) 07:41, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Treadmill construction
There is very little on treadmill construction, most readers will understand that a running machine consists of a moving belt, powered along by a motor, but to better understand, details of construction may well help expand the article.79.75.25.197 (talk) 03:58, 5 April 2010 (UTC)

Manufacturers
I see my contribution in this article is being reverted constantly. I am wondering why, as it took me 5 months of investigation, verification and compilation to create the largest treadmill manufacturer list in the World and published it in my site some months ago ( http://www.cintasdecorrer.com/content/fabricantes ). More than 350 verified manufacturers and growing, I also added a link for anyone to suggest any manufacturer missing in the list. I am not mentioning manufacturers we work with, no, I just compiled verified information about all manufacturers through the years in the planet. I am not highlighting any manufacturer as all of them are listed in the same condition (alphabetical). Nobody on the internet has ever compiled such a complete guide of manufacturers. We did it and we try to share this info at Wikipedia. This contribution has been correctly referenced here (I think), following the rules for referencing at Wikipedia. Maybe it must go in another paragraph? Do you really think this information is not relevant with the article? I insist; I am viewing about 2 brands in Wikipedia's treadmill article which could be cleary considered as publicity, but not my article.

I wrote: 'Nowadays, they are counted in hundreds the manufacturers of treadmills around the World.[1] since the first unit was launched'.

and referenced it as Manufacturer list.

Please let me know about your comments, thanks. I do not want to be engaged in an edit war.

--Wikidomainer (talk) 19:59, 29 March 2016 (UTC)

 * The issue is that the statement that you are adding is quite banal. It doesn't contribute to the article and appears as if it is being added merely as a vehicle to include a link to the website as a reference.  Considering what you've shared above, it is clear that is your intention.  I would recommend that you have a look at Wikipedia's conflict of interest guidelines which apply in this situation. Regards, Deli nk (talk) 11:33, 30 March 2016 (UTC)

Thanks for linking to me the conflict of interest guidelines, the part Citing yourself seems the most similar:

'''Using material you have written or published is allowed within reason, but only if it is relevant, conforms to the content policies, including WP:SELFPUB, and is not excessive. Citations should be in the third person and should not place undue emphasis on your work. When in doubt, defer to the community's opinion'''

I do not know why you consider destination page as self promotional. I would like to hear more about the community's thoughts, as you consider that the guide is not relevant with the article and quite banal. I do not find self publicity in the destination link as you are suggesting. I tried to link it because I think it is very relevant content and not just a useless link. I think the best convincing action would be to tell me something like "XXX manufacturer does not exist, so you have invented it". Then I'd have to accept an error. No one has ever created such a large treadmill manufacturers list so for me it is difficult to believe that the info is banal. Regards --Wikidomainer (talk) 16:38, 1 April 2016 (UTC)

Hi, I have modified the destination page so maybe it's not so banal. So now the title is "List of treadmill manufacturers" instead of previous "Largest treadmill manufacturer list in the World". I wonder if you consider it may have an opportunity to be cited now, please let me know. Regards. --Wikidomainer (talk) 19:01, 28 June 2016 (UTC)

Hi, I found this article at wikipedia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scooter_manufacturers so maybe the info regarding the manufacturers can be useful. Please let me know, thank you --Wikidomainer (talk) 16:44, 7 July 2016 (UTC)

Disputing the date and place of picture - Treadmill
The picture by https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treadmill#/media/File:RIAN_archive_555848_Testing_on_treadmill.jpg is disputed for being from Norway, at the "Rikshospitalet" in 1986, now the Oslo University Hospital (NO: Oslo Universitets Sykehus). 82.164.42.11 (talk) 08:04, 8 July 2018 (UTC)

Placement
Instead of:

"In case of uneven floors, the elevation of either of the legs (rear or front legs) should be leveled out using a wood block or a brick."

...might it not be better to say something about "follow the manufacturer's instructions/recommendations" or "ensure the treadmill remains safely secured after leveling"?

Psungorus (talk) 17:59, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Treadmill


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São Paulo State Symphony Orchestra

The São Paulo State Symphony Orchestra (Orquestra Sinfônica do Estado de São Paulo, OSESP) is a Brazilian orchestra based in São Paulo. The principal concert venue of OSESP is the Sala São Paulo.

History
The orchestra, initially called the Orquestra Sinfônica Estadual (State Symphony Orchestra), gave its first concert on 18 July 1953 at the Municipal Theatre of São Paulo, conducted by João de Sousa Lima. The government of the State of São Paulo officially codified the establishment of the orchestra in a decree (Law No. 2733) dated 13 September 1954, signed by Governor Lucas Nogueira Garcez. Sousa Lima served as the orchestra's first principal conductor and artistic director. OSESP alternated between periods of success and great difficulty, including a hiatus in its activities. In 1964, the Italian conductor Bruno Roccela became principal conductor. In 1972, Eleazar de Carvalho succeeded Roccela, and served as principal conductor until his death in 1996. In 1978, the orchestra formally took on its current name of the Orquestra Sinfônica do Estado de São Paulo.

John Neschling became principal conductor of OSESP in 1997. One condition that Neschling set for signing his contract was the establishment of a permanent home for OSESP. In 1999, the orchestra took up residence in a newly renovated venue located in the spaces of the abandoned Júlio Prestes Station, the Sala São Paulo. In 2005, the OSESP Foundation, a non-profit organization presided by former President of Brazil Fernando Henrique Cardoso, took over operations of OSESP. In January 2009, following reports of conflicts between Neschling and the OSESP governing board and musicians, OSESP rescinded Neschling's contract, with immediate effect.

Yan Pascal Tortelier served as principal conductor from 2009 to 2011, and subsequently as principal guest conductor from 2011 to 2013. From January 2010, music scholar and writer Arthur Nestrovski was named Artistic Director, in charge of programming, educational activities, publications and outreach programs. In February 2011, OSESP announced the appointment of Marin Alsop as principal conductor, the first female conductor named to the post, with an initial contract of five years, effective in 2012. In August 2012, under the direction of Alsop, OSESP made its first-ever appearance at the Proms, the first Proms appearance by any Brazilian orchestra. In July 2013, OSESP granted Alsop the title of music director. In April 2015, OSESP extended her contract to the end of 2019. In December 2017, OSESP announced that Alsop is to stand down as its chief conductor in December 2019, and subsequently to take the title of honorary conductor.

In October 2016, Thierry Fischer first guest-conducted OSESP. In June 2019, OSESP announced the appointment of Fischer as its next music director, effective in 2020, with an initial contract through 2024.

The orchestra has made commercial recordings for such labels as Biscoito Fino, BIS, and Naxos. These albums include symphonies of Camargo Guarnieri, Francisco Braga's opera Jupyra, works by Francisco Mignone and Cláudio Santoro, and Heitor Villa-Lobos's complete symphonies, Bachianas Brasileiras and Chôros. With Alsop, OSESP has recorded commercially music of Prokofiev.

Principal conductors

 * João de Sousa Lima (1954–1964)
 * Bruno Roccela (1964–1972)
 * Eleazar de Carvalho (1972–1996)
 * John Neschling (1997–2009)
 * Yan Pascal Tortelier (2009–2011)
 * Marin Alsop (2012–2019)
 * Thierry Fischer (2020–present)

title: São Paulo State Symphony Orchestra


text:
User talk:Airaola

You have been temporarily blocked from editing for vandalism of Wikipedia. You are welcome to come back after the block expires, if you will make useful contributions.

title: User talk:Airaola


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Alexander William Doniphan

Alexander William Doniphan (July 9, 1808 – August 8, 1887 ) was a 19th-century American attorney, soldier and politician from Missouri who is best known today as the man who prevented the summary execution of Joseph Smith, founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, at the close of the 1838 Mormon War in that state. He also achieved renown as a leader of American troops during the Mexican–American War, as the author of a legal code that still forms the basis of New Mexico's Bill of Rights, and as a successful defense attorney in the Missouri towns of Liberty, Richmond and Independence.

Early life
Doniphan was born near the town of Maysville, Kentucky, near the Ohio River. He was the youngest of the ten children of Joseph and Anne Fowke (née Smith) Doniphan, both natives of Virginia. Joseph had been a friend of Daniel Boone, and both of Alexander's grandfathers had fought in the American Revolution.

Doniphan graduated from Augusta College in 1824, and was admitted to the bar in 1830. He began his law practice in Lexington, Missouri, but soon moved to Liberty, where he was a successful lawyer. Doniphan always served as a defense attorney, never as a prosecutor, and was noted for his oratorical skills. He served in the state legislature in 1836, 1840, and 1854, representing the Whig Party.

The Heatherly War
Doniphan's friend and partner, David Rice Atchison, was a member of the Liberty Blues, a volunteer militia company. In June 1836 he persuaded Doniphan to join them. Doniphan took part in the so-called Heatherly War as an aide to Colonel Samuel C. Allen. As the Liberty Blues moved toward the Missouri border, Stephen Watts Kearny, then a lieutenant colonel, joined them from Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.

Kearny discovered that the Heatherly brothers had sold whiskey to a hunting party of Potawatomi Indians, then stole their horses. The Potawatomis pursued the brothers and killed three of them. The brothers' mother sought revenge by claiming that the Potawatomis had gone on the war path, while the remaining Heatherly brothers robbed and murdered two white men, trying to place the blame on the Potawatomis. The "war" ended with the Heatherly family being arrested, tried, and convicted.

The 1838 Mormon War
Starting in 1831, Jackson County, Missouri, had become home to several members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, a religious organization founded by Joseph Smith in upstate New York a year earlier. By 1833, approximately 1200 Mormons lived in Jackson County, where they aroused the ire of many earlier settlers by their belief that American Indians, whom they called "Lamanites", were the descendants of ancient Israelites who had migrated to the New World centuries earlier (see Book of Mormon). Other fundamental differences between Mormons and non-Mormons exacerbated the situation, especially a belief that the Mormons were abolitionists, who planned to foment uprisings among Missouri slaves. Denunciations of abolitionism in the church press did nothing to allay their neighbors' fears, and matters came to a head in late 1833, when the Mormons were forcibly expelled from the county.

Following these events, Joseph Smith and other church leaders petitioned the governor of Missouri for protection, but were largely ignored. This led them to hire Doniphan and Atchison, among others, to defend their rights in court. Doniphan assisted in the creation of a special county in northwestern Missouri for the Mormons, but continued friction between Mormons and non-Mormon settlers in that region ultimately led to the outbreak of the 1838 Mormon War. Following a clash between Mormons and state militia at the Battle of Crooked River, governor Lilburn Boggs issued his infamous "Extermination Order", directing that the Mormons be "exterminated, or driven from the state".

As a brigadier general in the Missouri Militia, Doniphan was ordered into the field with other forces to operate against the Mormons, even though he had worked diligently to avoid the conflict, and believed that the Mormons were largely acting in self-defense. After the surrender of Far West, General Samuel Lucas took custody of Joseph Smith and other Mormon leaders, and instituted a drumhead court martial (kangaroo court), which declared Smith and the others guilty of treason, and ordered Doniphan to execute them. Doniphan indignantly refused, saying: "It is cold blooded murder. I will not obey your order. ... [I]f you execute these men, I will hold you responsible before an earthly tribunal, so help me God". The Mormon leaders were accordingly sent to Liberty Jail during the winter, to await trial during the following spring of 1839, at which trial Doniphan was appointed as their defense attorney and energetically defended them at the risk of his good reputation and, in all probability, his life. Ultimately, the church leaders were permitted to escape from custody, and they subsequently made their way to the new Mormon settlement in Hancock County, Illinois, where Joseph Smith was killed in 1844. In Doniphan's honor, Joseph and Emma Hale Smith named a son Alexander Hale Smith.

In 1843, Porter Rockwell, a controversial Mormon figure later known as "the destroying angel of Mormondom", was arrested in St. Louis and accused of carrying out a failed assassination attempt on (now former) governor Boggs. After nine months of being imprisoned in poor conditions, he was able to hire Doniphan to defend him; Doniphan managed to have the main charge of attempted murder dismissed for lack of evidence, and arranged for Rockwell to serve a five-minute sentence (for a jailbreak attempt during his imprisonment) in the county jail before being released. Rockwell made his way to Illinois, then later to Utah, where he achieved fame as a lawman and Wild West figure.

Forty years after the events of 1838, an aged Doniphan visited Salt Lake City, Utah Territory, which had become the nucleus for the largest body of Mormons following the death of Joseph Smith. He received a hero's welcome, and was feted and thanked by the Latter-day Saints for his role in saving the life of their prophet.

Mexican–American War
In 1846, at the beginning of the Mexican–American War Doniphan was commissioned as Colonel of the 1st Regiment of Missouri Mounted Volunteers, and served in several campaigns, including General Stephen W. Kearny's capture of Santa Fe and an invasion of northern Mexico (present day northern New Mexico).

After Santa Fe was secure, Kearny left Doniphan in charge in New Mexico, and departed towards California on September 25, 1846. Doniphan's orders were to wait until General Sterling Price arrived with the Second Missouri Mounted Volunteers, who were coming from Fort Leavenworth, Kansas; after they arrived he was to lead them to Chihuahua via Ciudad Juarez, then known as Paso del Norte. They were to link up with Brigadier General John E. Wool, who was moving southwest from San Antonio, Texas toward Guerrero and Monclova, Coahuila, to attack Monterrey, Nuevo León from the west. Kearny had known that the Navajo people were going on the war path. With the Spanish gone, the Navajos wanted to test these new American soldiers; hence, as Doniphan waited for Price, the Navajos mounted a raid and kidnapped 20 Mexican families.

Doniphan was eager to start south, but he first had to wait for Price to arrive. Kearny, and then Doniphan had tried to negotiate with the Navajos, together with the Ute tribe and Apaches, but had made little progress. After Price arrived with his force, Kearny, near the present-day border of Arizona and New Mexico, learned that the Navajos had attacked some sheepherders, killed them, and stolen their herd of 2,000 sheep. Kearny dispatched a message to Doniphan to attack the Navajos on October 2, 1846. Doniphan signed a peace treaty with the Utes, and then took three companies and headed west (toward present day Gallup) in pursuit of the Navajos.

Doniphan was unable to find his foe, but they sent a member of their tribe to find him and tell him they wanted to negotiate. At first, Kearny was willing to be amicable with the Navajos, but the following day, October 3, the Navajos attacked the village of Polvadera, stealing the livestock and sending the residents fleeing for their lives. Kearny now called for all citizens of the territory to take up arms and aid the cavalry in finding the Navajos, retrieving the stolen property, and to "make reprisals and obtain redress for the many insults they received from them". Returning to their campaign against the Mexican Army, Doniphan's men won the Battle of El Brazito (outside modern day El Paso, Texas) and then won the Battle of the Sacramento River, enabling the capture of the city of Chihuahua. At the latter battle, Doniphan and his force were outnumbered by more than four to one in troops, and nearly two to one in artillery, but only lost one dead and eleven wounded to the Mexican loss of 320 dead, 560 wounded and 72 prisoners.

Doniphan's men ultimately embarked on ships and returned to Missouri via New Orleans to a hero's welcome. His campaign had taken him and his men on a march of nearly 5500 mi, considered the longest military campaign since the times of Alexander the Great.

Return to civilian life
After the Mexican–American War, Doniphan was appointed by General Kearny to write a code of civil laws (known as the "Kearny code") in both English and Spanish. It was to be used in the lands annexed from Mexico, and still forms the basis of New Mexico's Bill of Rights and legal code. He was also instrumental in the establishment of William Jewell College in his home town of Liberty; one of his colleagues on the college's board of trustees was Rev. Robert James, father of Frank and Jesse James. Doniphan also served as the first Clay County superintendent of schools.

Doniphan was a moderate in the events leading up to the American Civil War, opposing secession and favoring neutrality for Missouri. Although a slaveholder, Doniphan advocated the gradual elimination of slavery. This was in response to proposals of the Republican Party to make emancipation immediate, without compensation to the slaveowners or any preparation of the slaves for life as free men.

Doniphan attended a peace conference at Washington, D.C., in February 1861, but returned home frustrated at its inability to solve the crisis. He was appointed Brigadier General and commander of the Fifth Division of the Missouri State Guard, but declined. Doniphan was also offered high rank in the Union Army, but refused to fight against the South. In 1863 he moved to St. Louis and remained there for the rest of the war. During a meeting with Doniphan, President Abraham Lincoln is alleged to have remarked: "Doniphan, you are the only man I've ever met whose appearance came up to my expectations". During the war, Doniphan worked in St. Louis with the Missouri Claims Commission, handling pension applications.

In the late 1860s, Doniphan re-opened his law office in Richmond, Missouri, where he died at the age of 79. He is buried in Fairview Cemetery in Liberty under an obelisk.

Family
Doniphan married Elizabeth Jane Thornton (December 21, 1820–July 19, 1873)  on December 21, 1837, in Liberty, Missouri. Her father was a colleague of Doniphan's in the state legislature. Their wedding was on her 17th birthday, and it was a double-wedding ceremony, with Elizabeth's sister Caroline and Oliver P. Moss being married at the same time. Elizabeth became sickly in the 1850s, and during the burial of her son John she suffered a stroke, which left her a semi-invalid for the remainder of her life. Elizabeth Doniphan died in New York City of pulmonary hemorrhage.

The couple had two sons, John Thornton (September 18, 1838–May 9, 1853) and Alexander William Jr. (September 10, 1840–May 11, 1858),  neither of whom lived to age 18. John Thornton Doniphan died from accidental poisoning: while visiting his uncle James Baldwin, he sought relief for a toothache in the middle of the night but mistakenly took corrosive sublimate (mercury chloride), thinking that it was Epsom salts. Alexander William Doniphan Jr. died while attending Bethany College, in Bethany, West Virginia, when he drowned in a flood-swollen river.

Legacy

 * Doniphan County, Kansas, was created and named for him in 1855. He is also the namesake of the town of Doniphan, Missouri.
 * Alexander Doniphan remains highly esteemed by members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints for saving the life of Joseph Smith and other early church leaders. His story is routinely told in church literature and histories.
 * Doniphan was inducted into the Hall of Famous Missourians in 2008, and a bronze bust depicting him is on permanent display in the rotunda of the Missouri State Capitol in Jefferson City.
 * A large bronze statue of Doniphan stands on the grounds of the Ray County courthouse, in Richmond, Missouri.
 * The American Legion Boys State of Missouri named Doniphan City one of their divisions in his honor.
 * Doniphan Drive, in El Paso, Texas, is named for Doniphan, from the Battle of El Brazito fought near that city.
 * Missouri Highway 152, running between Liberty, Missouri, and Leavenworth, Kansas, is named the "Alexander Doniphan Memorial Highway".
 * Camp Doniphan was established during the Army buildup for World War I. It is located next to Fort Sill, just outside Lawton, Oklahoma.
 * William Jewell College in Liberty, Missouri, has named its prestigious Senior Award named in honor of Colonel Alexander Doniphan. The Alexander Doniphan Award is presented to the male of the graduating senior class whom demonstrates leadership, strong academics, and is considered by his peers to be the most likely to walk the furthest in life, or "most likely to succeed."
 * The Liberty, Missouri School District has named an elementary school in honor of Doniphan.
 * Actor Peter Lawford portrayed Doniphan in a 1965 episode of the NBC anthology series, Profiles in Courage, based on an earlier book attributed to John F. Kennedy, who was a brother-in-law of Peter Lawford.

title: Alexander William Doniphan


text:
Talk:Joel Spolsky

Put some indication of sexuality in main article
I would suggest to make some mention of sexuality in the main article. AS a reader, I was quite confused why the links section has lots of LBGT pieces when it wasn't so clear in the article

Schlemiel the Painter's algorithm
First, it's not clear if this is a generally accepted term or just an example from one of Spolsky's articles. Second, is there a reason to summarize the entire article in detail here? This section could be reduced to a short paragraph--assuming there's clear notability for the term--but I suspect that edits will be reverted (hence this note). Dgpop (talk) 16:08, 1 November 2016 (UTC)

There is also a heck of a lot of stuff in that paragraph that gives no source. Original research perhaps, or an opinion? See especially: "The problems illustrated by Spolsky's example are not noticed by a programmer who is using a high-level language and has little or no understanding of how the language implementation works." It implies that the string concatenation problem that is the subject of the example is present in higher-level languages, but goes unnoticed because of the limited understanding of the programmer. But in a higher-level programming language, strings typically are wrapped in some sort of class or struct that includes the length of the string, so the compiler uses that - rather than walking the string to find a null terminator - to find the end of the string. So in most (all?) higher-level languages, the problem of walking a longer and longer string to find the null terminator when concatenating does not occur. People may well disagree with me on this of course, but I suggest that unless someone puts up some verifiable reliable source for that statement, it should be deleted. (And as per Dgpop, it is not clear how this section is about Spolsky anyway.) Jinlye (talk) 15:33, 9 January 2020 (UTC)

 * The quote you mentioned is derived from the article (have you read it?) Also the point he's making isn't one should rely on even higher level constructs as you suggest, but quite the contrary. He warns that software should be efficient all the way from the low level up and modern programmers are getting more and more removed from the low level stuff working behind that what they use. See his articles about "leaky abstractions" to find out more.
 * Arny (talk) 19:20, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Notability
I've just removed a notability tag. As for most intaweb-related people his web footprint is vast and so simply counting Ghits doesn't really prove much. However his tangential writing on the process of software development (notably the "Java Schools Considered Harmful" essay) and the frequency with which this is cited elsewhere throughout the industry would swing it for him being regarded as notable. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:17, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

 * ... that, and the fact that he's a published author, and the progenitor of several things which we have distinct articles for: Fog Creek Software, Stack Overflow (website), FogBugz, Fog Creek Copilot, and CityDesk.  Warren -talk- 15:44, 30 April 2009 (UTC)

Nationality, citizenship and passport
Does anyone have real references for this? (or just mail the guy, he doesn't bite). He's obviously based in the USA, has strong connections with Israel, and the New Zealand connection is hardly more than ancestry and a passing joke passport, from a WP:COI self-published ref that also confuses passports and citizenship (by his criteria, I'd be Irish). None of this is really holding up to WP:BLP standards. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:45, 2 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Probably not a real reference, but he mentions it in the Stack Overflow podcast episode 13, 2 min 32 seconds to 4 min 18 seconds, telling the story of how he got the passport.  MP3 file for episode 13: http://itc.conversationsnetwork.org/audio/download/ITC.SO-Episode013-2008.07.08.mp3 --Mortense (talk) 12:04, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

 * It is also mentioned briefly in Stack Overflow podcast episode 43, 46 min 28 Secs - 46 min 41 Secs. MP3 file for episode 43: http://cdn.conversationsnetwork.org/ITC.SO-Episode43-2009.02.24.mp3  --Mortense (talk) 22:21, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

 * The man had served in Cahal. I think you have to be Israeli to be drafted. Errarel (talk) 23:35, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

Discontinuation of the Weblog
The article mentions a precise date in 2010 for the discontinuation of Joel's popular blog. But I've just checked out his blog and found no evidence of discontinuation, even in the time around the mentioned date. From where did the discontinuation come out? Protez (talk) 01:26, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

 * The reference for that statement is an edition of Jeff Atwood's Stack Overflow podcast, although I'm not going to listen for an hour to check it. Feel free to check it out yourself if you doubt it. RossPatterson (talk) 11:08, 14 June 2011 (UTC)

 * I listened to some of the podcast and around 13 minutes in, Joel mentions "that I'm probably going to stop the main Joel on Software blog - I guess I haven't really publicly announced this yet - so the main Joel on Software blog probably going to end on a ten year anniversary, March 18th". Considering there's no evidence that he went through with discontinuing the blog I removed the statement in this article. 15.219.153.80 (talk) 15:31, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

 * Agreed, he's still posting, albeit rarely, so the statement is wrong, regardless of Spolsky's intent. RossPatterson (talk) 21:21, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Deletion nomination
Why was this nominated for deletion? That's absurd. UmassThrower (talk) 18:23, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

 * Articles for deletion/Joel Spolsky is the place, not here. Andy Dingley (talk) 18:57, 9 August 2012 (UTC)

WikiProject LGBT Studies
Why is this article listed under WikiProject LGBT Studies? Jarble (talk) 08:55, 30 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It's not clear. There's no reference in the article to him being LGBT himself or involved in LGBT issues, so I've removed the template. Robofish (talk) 21:43, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Keep the banner or don't, but Spolsky's open about this. For example, on November 4, 2012, he tweeted from his verified Twitter account (@spolsky):"If you're not into gay marriage, don't get gay married--but my marriage to Jared isn't hurting you and should be legal everywhere"  RossPatterson (talk) 22:02, 24 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Mr. Spolsky posted this: . I still don't believe this means Spolsky is involved in LGBT issues to the threshold necessary for incorporating into the article, just thought I should mention it. --Yamla (talk) 18:00, 26 June 2015 (UTC)
 * That would entail removing the LGBT categories from the article, not the project banner from the talk page. Those are governed by different rules. Diego (talk) 20:34, 26 June 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Joel Spolsky


text:
Carey McWilliams (marksman)

Carey McWilliams is an American author, outdoorsman and firearms safety consultant. He gained prominence in 2001, when he became the first blind person to acquire a concealed weapons permit to allow him to carry a firearm for self-defense.

Life
McWilliams was born the son of Janice McWilliams. His blindness, caused by a late-blooming birth defect that failed to appear at birth, occurred at age ten. Despite complete blindness, at age 14, McWilliams joined the Civil Air Patrol, where he had the opportunity to co-pilot many small aircraft. It was through the cadet program that he learned to disassemble, clean, reassemble and fire his first gun, the M16. After passing a pistol marksmanship course through the Army ROTC with a GPA of 4.0 at 18. At 27 he passed all shooting and written exams to receive his first concealed weapons permit from North Dakota in September 2000. In 2005, he became a figure in the National Gun Debate when he publicly opposed a move by his home state's legislature to remove the shooting portion of the CCW permit, stating that such allowed the carrying of loaded firearms by individuals who may have no knowledge of safe gun operation. Despite opposition from many sides of the gun issue, he has pursued other state's carry permits, obtaining CCW permits from Arizona, Florida, Utah and Virginia. In 2018, he passed all enhanced written and live-fire requirements to be issued a North Dakota enhanced class 1 concealed weapons permit, allowing him to carry a loaded firearm in 40 states with reciprocity.

In 2021, McWilliams obtained a permit to carry a loaded handgun from the state of Minnesota after two previous attempts in 2006 and again in 2016.

McWilliams married singer and minister Victoria Rice from Moorhead, Minnesota in 2004 in Germany. Rice has cerebral palsy.

title: Carey McWilliams (marksman)


text: Category:Prefectures of Greece

title: Category:Prefectures of Greece


text:
Sunflowers (Van Gogh series)

Sunflowers (original title, in French: Tournesols) is the title of two series of still life paintings by the Dutch painter Vincent van Gogh. The first series, executed in Paris in 1887, depicts the flowers lying on the ground, while the second set, made a year later in Arles, shows a bouquet of sunflowers in a vase. In the artist's mind, both sets were linked by the name of his friend Paul Gauguin, who acquired two of the Paris versions. About eight months later, Van Gogh hoped to welcome and impress Gauguin again with Sunflowers, now part of the painted Décoration for the Yellow House that he prepared for the guestroom of his home in Arles, where Gauguin was supposed to stay.

The Paris Sunflowers
Little is known of Van Gogh's activities during the two years he lived with his brother, Theo, in Paris, 1886–1888. The fact that he had painted Sunflowers already is only revealed in the spring of 1889, when Gauguin claimed one of the Arles versions in exchange for studies he had left behind after leaving Arles for Paris. Van Gogh was upset and replied that Gauguin had absolutely no right to make this request: "I am definitely keeping my sunflowers in question. He has two of them already, let that hold him. And if he is not satisfied with the exchange he has made with me, he can take back his little Martinique canvas, and his self-portrait sent to me from Brittany, at the same time giving me back both my portrait and the two sunflower canvases which he has taken to Paris. So if he ever broaches this subject again, I've told you just how matters stand."

The two Sunflowers in question show two buttons each; one of them was preceded by a small study, and a fourth large canvas combines both compositions.

These were Van Gogh's first paintings with "nothing but sunflowers"—yet, he had already included sunflowers in still life and landscape earlier.

The Arles Sunflowers
In a letter to Theo dating from 21 or 22 August 1888, Van Gogh wrote: "I'm painting with the gusto of a Marseillais eating bouillabaisse, which won’t surprise you when it's a question of painting large sunflowers." At the time, he was working on three paintings simultaneously and intended to do more, as he explained to his brother: "in the hope of living in a studio of our own with Gauguin, I'd like to do a decoration for the studio. Nothing but large sunflowers".

Leaving aside the first two versions, all Arlesian Sunflowers are painted on size 30 canvases.

The initial versions, August 1888
The versions of the paintings provided by Van Gogh in his announcement of his sunflower series do not precisely match every detail supplied by him. The first version differs in size, is painted on a size 20 canvas—not on a size 15 canvas as indicated —and all the others differ in the number of flowers depicted from Van Gogh's announcement. The second was evidently enlarged and the initial composition altered by insertion of the two flowers lying in the foreground, center and right. Neither the third nor the fourth shows the dozen or 14 flowers indicated by the artist, but more—fifteen or sixteen. These alterations are executed wet-in-wet and therefore considered genuine rework—even the more so as they are copied to the repetitions of January 1889; there is no longer a trace of later alterations, at least in this aspect.

The fourth version of the painting was attacked on October 14, 2022 by environmental activists from the Just Stop Oil campaign, who threw tinned tomato soup at it, while it was on display at National Gallery in London, before gluing their hands to the wall. The painting was covered with plexiglass, and it was unharmed with the exception of minor damage to the frame. The two activists were arrested and the painting was put back on display later that day.

The Repetitions, January 1889
Both repetitions of the 4th version are no longer in their original state. In the Amsterdam version, a strip of wood was added at the top—probably by Van Gogh himself. The Tokyo version, however, was enlarged on all sides with strips of canvas, which were added at a later time—presumably by the first owner, Émile Schuffenecker. The series is perhaps Van Gogh's best known and most widely reproduced. In the 2000s, debate arose regarding the authenticity of one of the paintings, and it has been suggested that this version may have been the work of Émile Schuffenecker or of Paul Gauguin. Most experts, however, conclude that the work is genuine.

The Berceuse-Triptych
In January 1889, when Vincent had just finished the first repetitions of the Berceuse and the Sunflowers pendants, he told Theo: "I picture to myself these same canvases between those of the sunflowers, which would thus form torches or candelabra beside them, the same size, and so the whole would be composed of seven or nine canvases."

A definite hint for the arrangement of the triptych is supplied by Van Gogh's sketch in a letter of July 1889.

Later that year, Vincent selected both versions for his display at Les XX, 1890.

Sunflowers, friendship and gratitude
Van Gogh began painting in late summer of 1888 and continued into the following year. One went to decorate his friend Paul Gauguin's bedroom. The paintings show sunflowers in all stages of life, from full bloom to withering. The paintings were considered innovative for their use of the yellow spectrum, partly because newly invented pigments made new colors possible.

In a letter to Theo, Vincent wrote: "It's a type of painting that changes its aspect a little, which grows in richness the more you look at it. Besides, you know that Gauguin likes them extraordinarily. He said to me about them, among other things: ‘that — ... that's... the flower’. You know that Jeannin has the peony, Quost has the hollyhock, but I have the sunflower, in a way."

Subsequent history

On March 30, 1987, Japanese insurance magnate Yasuo Goto paid the equivalent of US$39,921,750 for Van Gogh's Still Life: Vase with Fifteen Sunflowers at auction at Christie's London, at the time a record-setting amount for a work of art. The price was over three times the previous record of about $12million paid for Andrea Mantegna's Adoration of the Magi in 1985. The record was broken a few months later with the purchase of another Van Gogh, Irises, by Alan Bond for $53.9million at Sotheby's, New York on November 11, 1987.

While it is uncertain whether Yasuo Goto bought the painting himself or on behalf of his company, the Yasuda Fire and Marine Insurance Company of Japan, the painting currently resides at Seiji Togo Yasuda Memorial Museum of Modern Art in Tokyo. After the purchase, a controversy arose whether this is a genuine Van Gogh or an Émile Schuffenecker forgery.

Provenances
Two Paris versions Van Gogh exchanged with Gauguin in December 1887 or January 1888, were both sold to Ambroise Vollard: one in January 1895 and the other in April 1896. The first canvas resided for a short time with Félix Roux, but was reacquired by Vollard and sold to Degas, then from his estate to Rosenberg, then to Hahnloser and bequested to the Kunstmuseum Bern. The second was acquired by the Dutch collector Hoogendijk at the sale of his collection by Kann, who ceded the painting to Richard Bühler and then via Thannhauser to the Metropolitan Museum in New York.

Two of Van Gogh's Sunflowers paintings never left the artist's estate: the study for one of the Paris versions (F377) and the repetition of fourth version (F458). Both are in the possession of the Vincent van Gogh Foundation, established 1962 by Vincent Willem van Gogh, the artist's nephew, and on permanent loan to the Van Gogh Museum, Amsterdam.

Five other versions are recorded in the Van Gogh estate papers:
 * the final Paris version (F.452) in the artist's estate was sold 1909 via C. M. van Gogh, The Hague (J. H. de Bois) to Kröller-Müller
 * (F457) sold 1894 to Émile Schuffenecker. (Tokyo version).
 * (F456) sold 1905 via Paul Cassirer to Hugo von Tschudi. (Munich version).
 * (F459) sold 1908 C. M. van Gogh (J. H. de Bois), The Hague to Fritz Meyer-Fierz, Zürich (destroyed by U.S. air raid in Japan on 6 August 1945).
 * (F454) sold 1924 via Ernest Brown & Phillips (The Leicester Galleries) to the Tate Gallery; since on permanent loan to the National Gallery, London. (London version).

Two Arles versions left the artist's estate unrecorded:
 * (F453) (private collection). Sold 1891 to Octave Mirbeau, Paris, (via Tanguy, Paris) for £12 (about £1,300 in 2013 £). Sold 1996 to a private collector for an undisclosed sum.
 * (F455) (Philadelphia version).

title: Sunflowers (Van Gogh series)


text:
Margaret Louisa Woods

Margaret Louisa Woods (née Bradley; 20 November 1855 – 1 December 1945) was an English writer, known for novels and for her lyrical and socially conscious poetry.

Life
She was born in Rugby, the daughter of the scholar George Granville Bradley, an academic and senior priest, who served as Dean of Westminster from 1881 to 1902. Her sister was the writer Mabel Birchenough. In 1879 she married Henry George Woods, who became President of Trinity College, Oxford, and Master of the Temple. They built Thessaly Cottage, on the ridge of Boars Hill above Oxford, one of the first brick houses to be established there, and stayed there until 1893. There were three sons. Margaret died at her home, Vine Cottage, in Thursley, Surrey. Her ashes are interred with her husband, at Holywell Cemetery, Oxford.

Novels
Esther Vanhomrigh, is a historical romance inspired by the life of the Irish poet Esther Vanhomrigh, the lover and correspondent of Jonathan Swift. The Vagabonds is an exploration of male perceptions of women. There are three novels set in Spain at the time of the Peninsular War (Sons of the Sword, The King's Revoke, The Spanish Lady). A Poet's Youth is a portrayal of William Wordsworth. Her most unusual novel, The Invader, is a fantasy about a young female scholar (one of the earliest women students accepted by Oxford University), who is possessed by the spirit of a similar fore-bearer.

 * A Village Tragedy (1889)
 * Esther Vanhomrigh (1891)
 * Sons of the Sword (1901)
 * The King's Revoke (1905)
 * The Invader (1907)
 * A Poet's Youth (1923)
 * The Spanish Lady (1927)

Verse collections

 * Lyrics and Ballads (1889)
 * Aeromancy (1896)
 * Songs (1896)
 * Poems Old and New (1907)
 * Collected Poems (1913)
 * The Return and Other Poems (1921)

Poetic drama

 * Wild Justice (1896)
 * The Princess of Hanover (1902)

Juvenile fiction

 * Come Unto These Yellow Sands (1915), illustrated by J. Hancock.

Travel

 * Pastels under the Southenn Cross (1911)

title: Margaret Louisa Woods


text:
Carey McWilliams

Carey McWilliams may refer to:

 * Carey McWilliams (journalist) (1905–1980), American journalist and lawyer
 * Carey McWilliams (marksman) (born 1973), blind marksman, author, and skydiver

title: Carey McWilliams


text:
Talk:Sons of Ether

As a new user I'm hesitant to make on-the-fly edits, so I'll just make a suggestion here. Would it be suitable to place a link to Paradigma Online? gifkip 19:34, 20 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Binaryborealis 01:54, 2005 Apr 3 (UTC) Done and done. :)

References?

The list of References and Inspiration is questionable. For starters, is the list supposed to be things that the Sons of Ether inspired or things that inspired the Sons of Ether? Some of them are obvious inspirations for the Sons of Ether but a few of them postdate the creation of the Sons of Ether and even the end of Mage: the Ascension (e.g., Rise of Legends). Seems like there should be two lists and the lists should only include direct references \ inspirations. Otherwise we just have a bunch of mad scientist stuff lumped together.

References and inspiration
Deleted cause it's referencing another topics (mad scientist mainly) not specifically Sons of Ether. Also showing irrelevant information plus it's a unclear information ( "inspiration of" or "was inspired in" ?).

--Magallanes 17:37, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sons of Ether


text:
WATC-DT

WATC-DT (channel 57) is a religious independent television station in Atlanta, Georgia, United States. Owned by Carolina Christian Broadcasting, the station maintains studios on Enterprise Drive in Norcross, and its transmitter is located on Sweat Mountain in northeastern Cobb County, near the Cherokee County line.

WATC broadcasts programming from various Christian organizations and local and national churches over its two main channels, including World Harvest Television, The Inspiration Network, The Worship Network, Golden Eagle and The Shepherd's Chapel. Its third subchannel carries The Loop, a network made up of classic sitcoms, dramas, Westerns and films, all in the public domain.

History
WATC launched on September 10, 1996.

WATC granted permission to simulcast its signal on WSKC-CA (channel 22, also licensed to Atlanta), so that station could maintain its Class A status. WSKC-CA was located on the same broadcast tower as WATC, and could continue broadcasting in analog even after WATC went digital-only in February 2009. However, it was off-air as of March 2009, and remained so for most of the year. Since then, the station has moved to transmit digitally from a location near Norcross as WSKC-CD, and now airs Korean programming as it had previously done on analog before its affiliation with WATC.

Despite the DTV Delay Act extending the deadline from February 17 to June 12, the station ended analog service on the original date. On June 18, it changed its broadcast callsign from WATC a few days after the Federal Communications Commission (FCC) announced that TV stations were free to add or drop "-DT" as easily as "-TV". WATC received a construction permit for a fill-in broadcast translator in Union City, Georgia (southwestern metro Atlanta) on channel 36, which was vacated by analog WATL. It will have the same callsign as its parent station (with no extra numerals or other differentiation, despite not being a same-channel booster) and could not be sold separately, as it is within a program the FCC created in 2009 in order to address the shortcomings of the ATSC digital broadcast television system. Since ATSC is very prone to multipath interference, this may be due to reflected signals from the skyscrapers of downtown Atlanta and midtown Atlanta, as well as terrain shielding of the Chattahoochee River valley and the hills around it.

The station formerly had a translator station, W42AO, licensed to Athens, Georgia. That station became WAGC-LD. Owner Carolina Christian Broadcasting, Inc. also owns WGGS-TV, its sister station in Greenville, South Carolina.

In early May 2011, the station added other religious programming called "WATC Too" on new channel 57.2.

Subchannels
The station's signal is multiplexed:

Analog-to-digital conversion
WATC shut down its analog signal, over UHF channel 57, on February 17, 2009, to conclude the federally mandated transition from analog to digital television. The station's digital signal remained on its pre-transition UHF channel 41, using virtual channel 57.

title: WATC-DT


text:
Category:British science fiction writers

Science fiction writers from the United Kingdom.


text:
Talk:Fornication

Georgia removed from list of states which currently outlaw fornication
Georgia was removed from the list of states which currently have laws against fornication. This is because the legislation which was cited (O.C.G.A 16-6-8) specifically outlaws public indecency and is not explicitly related to fornication which has to do with the marital status of the individuals involved in the acts. The code itself does not use the word 'fornication', nor does it mention marital status anywhere within the statute. 73.7.38.69 (talk) 13:11, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * It would appear that the mention of code section 16-6-8 was a typo and was always intended to be O.C.G.A. 16-6-18, which was in fact titled . Fabrickator (talk) 19:47, 27 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Hah! When I first searched on this, I read about the two sections 16-6-18 (fornication) and 16-6-19 (adultery) being repealed, but when I went back to look at the page, I realized it was only a bill.  Click on the following link to  check the current status of the bill (you can also sign up for status updates). Fabrickator (talk) 20:14, 27 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Fornication