text:
Talk:Modest Mouse

"A new album is widely expected to be released sometime in early 2006."
Source for this?

It is my understanding that "widely accepted" simply means "rumored". I would cut that line, at least until somebody can confirm the information.

Tongo Zitheroo Ketchill

I can safely say that as a person from the future. That was confirmed to has been released. But it was released in 2007 by the name of We Were Dead Before the Ship Even Sank. That’s all I have to say. They released a few more albums eps after that. Take care.

User:Anonymous person — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.128.213 (talk) 18:34, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Members
How many people are there? It gives three names but it looks like four in the picture. Can someone clarify this please? HereToHelp (talk) 01:09, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Just from reading the article here it looks like they started as a 3-piece, then when the original drummer quit they expanded to 4-piece (adding a second guitarist in addition to the new drummer). Then the original drummer rejoined the band, replacing his replacement (confusing?: yes). Under the list of bandmembers it says "former member?" next to the second guitarist, so they either reverted back to their original 3-piece line-up or are still a 4-piece (and the question mark makes me think people don't know one way or another). This is just based on my reading the article here... Blogbourri 03:29, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Are you serious, read the article, they have four in the picture because it was taken before the two members left and were replaced by Jeremiah Green. Therefore, when it says former members it means that they left the band and the picture is older than the information.

That picture is a screenshot of their performance on Saturday Night Live, which is after Jeremiah Green returned. Dann Galluci was not replaced, he left fairly recently; his last show was late 2005. The Modest Mouse roster changes pretty frequently, and I think there were additional performers (members or not) offscreen in that picture. However the listing of band members near the end of the article is completely accurate as far as I'm aware.

i think its pretty dumb how this new guy is co-writing the songs. i doubt whatever he comes up with is gonna be as good as brocks stuff.

while I am also worried about modest mouse breaking down because of this-- you can't really call him a new guy. I mean, he played with the Smiths for ---'s sake

WHere did you get this info
ēēēāWhere did you get this information about a new CD? i think these guys are awexomeωæ Ąî

I heard it's supposed to come out this year from a reliable source... That is if Epic doesn't push it back to make a bunch of promotional deals... like last time.

The info on the origin of the band's name needs a citation. I've always heard that "modest mouse" was one of the phrases Brock had to repeat as a child as part of speech therapy for his lisp. 66.9.126.26 22:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
 * That information about the new album fails the Google test. I only got a handful of random forums buzzing around. Rolling Stone said Brock got decked out one night and broke his jaw. I assumed that's where his lisp came from. LockeShocke 12:33, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I recall reading somewhere (I forget where so ignore this as you see fit I suppose) an article in which someone who had known him since childhood described the lisp as one of his definitive qualities. However I think I could find an article in which he explains the origin of "modest mouse" (which is as the article says it is). Pance 23:24, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Concerning his lisp, if you watch the "Untitled Documentary" Isaac has a noticable lisp. This documentary was filmed in 1997, several years before his jaw was broken. --Arnesh 13:44, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

New Picture
We need a better picture. try the one on their myspace

Concerning the term "indie"
I don't have much of a problem with it, but seeing as how they're on Sony, a major record label, is the term "indie" really all that fitting for Modest Mouse?
 * It's appropriate. Indie rock is more of a musical style than an indication that a band is independent. Rhobite 03:07, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

I disagree, "Indie Rock" is just going to cause disputes about the definition. I think we should use alternative. We don't want a revert war.

 * Indie rock has been used as a genre term for about twenty years, so it's valid to use. The concept of "indie" is covered at Indie (music).  So there shouldn't be any confusion.  I mean, does signing to a major label automatically mean your genre changes?  I would beg to differ.  WesleyDodds 00:12, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Maybe if you signed to something like Murder, Inc. Indie Rock could also be consider Post-Alternative? Hm.

Listening to this band for the first time, it sounds like it fits neatly into the post-rock category to me. Compare to Mogwai, for example. Icemuon 18:12, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

Obviously the above entry is a joke, as they're certainly not anything remotely close to post-rock. A select few songs are fairly long and more instrumental in nature, but again, the stylistic similarities to a band like Mogwai, Talk Talk, Slint, Godspeed You Black Emperor etc. are extremely slim.

Changing record labels does not change a band's genre of music. Indie as a genre is terrible to begin with. Not one "Indie" band sounds like the other. Influences range from electronica to Joy Division to the Rolling Stones to Pop. Interpol is an ALTERNATIVE band. Joy Division is an ALTERNATIVE band. Modest Mouse? ALTERNATIVE. Sunny Day REal Estate is an ALTERNATIVE band. Sonic Youth is an ALTERNATIVE band. Pixies = ALTERNATIVE. Alternative stems from punk rock. It's smarter; more experimental. Independent Rock? No. Just no. Independent Rock refers to the record label NOT THE SOUND. You don't sound independent you are indepedent. Modest Mouse is (clearly) an Alternative rock band. Let us please leave it at that because it makes so much more sense. - Aaron

 * Virtually all of the points you make concerning the limitations of the genre "indie" can be made similarly for the term "alternative". It is clear that there HAS been a music genre INDIE for years now, whether or not that is a good label to use is debatable, but it is what it is.66.232.72.41 07:03, 17 December 2006 (UTC)Cubbie

 * What Aaron is right in pointing out is that, originally, the term indie referred to an independent label. It's since been thrown around so much that it is almost an identifiable sound. But the culture that Indie represents is one of rebellion against the Big 5. Because Modest Mouse, currently, is signed to one of those labels, I think it's appropriate instead to call them technically alternative -- "with an indie sound." That's the most appropriate IMHO. LockeShocke 12:32, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

I would argue that Modest Mouse is indeed and indie band. They got their start and made their impact with critics while signed to independent labels. I'm averse to using the world indie to describe a genre, but it's a descriptor (however clunky) that people seem to understand, at least presently. What's more, "alternative" as a descriptor has lost almost all significance. Jedidiah 17:23, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

 * LISTEN! On theire myspace page, they list themselves as alternative/indie/rock. We should go by what the band themself says. Nuff said. Arnesh 01:02, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Wait, what? Just because a band labels themselves as something doesnt mean its actually so. I can make a rap group and label myself Country Music if I wanted to this doesn't make it so. 75.24.183.93 22:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, as soon as i started listening to Modest Mouse, i immediatley thought that "This is a Long Drive..." album would be their only album. But i have grown attached to their particularly random and intrueging music. i thought it was odd that they were considered as Alternitive. "Alternative" music (to me) is a (well, not a modest mouse genre) but i also dont think that it is really all that important. There are a lot of people that are on either side of the discussion, but you dont see Modest Mouse disputing over the argument. And if they dont care, Why should we? [Completely expressed as an opinion.] —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.29.133.48 (talk) 04:05, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

As was mentioned earlier by Wesley Dods, the issue of Indie being a genre, now separate from from the means of production, is covered in the Indie rock page. The term refers not only to being signed to an independent label, but also to having a sound, style, or aesthetic that was first associated with such bands, regardless of current label. As Modest Mouse has more in common stylistically, if not economically, with indie music than alternative music, it is entirely correct to refer to them as "indie". This is especially important as people not familiar with the band, looking them up on Wikipedia, are likely wanting to know the genre insofar as they want to know what the band *sounds* like, rather than how band operates economically. Similarly, it would be inappropriate to classify a jazz band as "indie" on their Wikipedia page, even if the jazz band is signed to an independent label. In this way, it is more accurate and appropriate to describe Modest Mouse as indie. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.135.210.16 (talk) 21:08, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

 * First of all, that post by Wesley is from over three years ago. Secondly, I agree that it is not inaccurate to state that Modest Mouse is an indie rock band. However, that is too specific for the opening sentence, as they are also more than just indie rock (a subset of alternative rock).  The term indie rock has it's rightful place in the infobox, so it isn't absent, but it does not belong as the primary descriptor for the band in the lead sentence. —Akrabbimtalk 22:01, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

What does the age of Wesley's post have to do with anything? And while indie rock may have its stylistic origins in alternative rock, it has since become a separate genre rather than a "subset" of alternative rock. Currently, many bands would be rightfully classified as indie, but not as alternative, although some may overlap. The term indie rock is hardly esoteric or needlessly specific to anyone at all familiar with contemporary music, and for the reasons I stated in my previous post, it more accurately describes Modest Mouse than alternative rock. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.135.210.16 (talk) 22:10, 1 February 2010 (UTC)

 * My point on the date of Wesley's post was that consensus has probably changed since then, but I suppose that this reasoning doesn't really apply here. Sorry about that.  But anyway, even though "indie rock" is distinct from "alternative rock", it is still considered a subgenre (see Alternative rock).  Considering the term is not inapplicable to Modest Mouse (see AMG), it is more accurate to label them initially as "alternative rock", and then specify more as the article goes on (as it is, the lead paragraph needs a little more on the influence they had pre-Epic). —Akrabbimtalk 01:45, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Frankly, despite its origins, claiming indie rock to *currently* be a subgenre of alternative seems both inaccurate and counter-intuitive, and I think the alternative page needs some serious revisions accordingly. As for AMG, I'm not familiar with that website, but it seems a bit unreliable as it also describes Modest Mouse as "emo", "lo-fi", and "noise pop". The Last.fm [Modest Mouse page], which operates similar to a wiki for music enthusiasts, describes Modest Mouse as Indie rock in their lead sentence. Furthermore, the Wikipedia indie rock page fairly clearly classifies indie rock as it's own unique genre, not merely part of alternative rock, and traces some of its origins back independent of alternative rock, and arguably predating it. I think its reasonable to treat the indie rock page as a higher authority on indie rock than the alternative rock page, if we are going to compare Wikipedia pages to each other.

However, supposing that you still remain convinced that indie rock is, essentially, alternative rock, I still don't understand your reasoning why it is preferable to label them as alternative rock. Anyone familiar with the term alternative rock will also be familiar with the term indie rock, and vice versa. There is no advantage of that sort. And, subgenre or not, the term indie rock is more specific and more informative. If alternative rock can mean a whole host of different things, from grunge to britpop, as the alternative rock page claims, then it would seem more prudent to label Modest Mouse as indie rock. The term is more accurate and more descriptive of the style and sound of Modest Mouse than the term alternative rock; and conveying to someone unfamiliar with a band what the band sounds like is the purpose of stating the genre.

Lastly, I checked some other paradigmatic indie bands off the top of my head to see how they have been labeled, and they all use indie rock as the primary descriptor in the lead sentence. See Neutral Milk Hotel, Arcade Fire, Ambulance LTD, Built to Spill, Ugly Casanova, Death Cab for Cutie, and The Shins. Apart from being very stylistically similar to Modest Mouse, several of the bands also have made the jump from independent to major record labels, yet still retain the genre description "indie rock". Wikipedia appears to already have a standard of sorts for labeling indie rock bands as "indie rock bands", rather than as alternative rock. I see no reason why the Modest Mouse page ought to be an exception.

98.225.77.74 (talk) 05:15, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

 * I suppose what I am trying to say is that Modest Mouse is (at least a little) more than strictly indie rock, and it would be unfair to limit their description in the first sentence. But I think you have convinced me that it really is the most accurate term in this case.  In other cases, where a band is not so clearly defined by their style and perhaps span multiple subgenres, it is better to start with broad like "rock" or "alternative rock" and move down, but I realize now that Modest Mouse is unambiguously smack dab in the middle of indie rock.  —Akrabbimtalk 12:18, 2 February 2010 (UTC)

Rape
Why is there no mention of the incident where Isaac Brock, the singer of the band was accused of rape? -Lusy
 * Because it is discussed at Isaac Brock (musician).--Hraefen 19:03, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

 * ^^ fixed your isaac brock link, it went to the wrong person. --jp

Critical/commercial success

 * Not once in this article is there a single mention of critical success. Considering that "The Lonesome Crowded West" and "The Moon and Antarctica" are considered by many critics and tastemakers to be amongst the defining albums of their time, I find this lacking. Also, considering that "Good News..." has sold well over a million copies now, I think it's time that is noted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SeanJohnston (talk • contribs)

 * Yeah well, considering that there are plenty of people who think Modest Mouse are repetitive, banal, and mind-numbingly idiotic, it's good that this article fits okay in NPOV, huh? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.234.146.18 (talk • contribs)
 * Please sign your comments. Well-cited quotes mentioning that Modest Mouse has long been critically acclaimed and that their last album sold well is in no way a contradiction of NPOV.--Hraefen 15:22, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Album done June 26?
Where, exactly did this information come from?

"As of June 26, 2006, the band has finished its recording in Oxford, MS at Sweet Tea (Dennis Herring) and has returned to Portland, OR to finish overdubs and mixing of the latest album. Johnny Marr is a confirmed member of the band, co-writing songs for the new album with Isaac Brock."--71.226.108.172 06:38, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Name Conceived Differently?
I know that it's a common rumor that the name of the band came from the Russian composer Modest Moussorgsky. Can somebody see a relevant place where we can include this information or whether we should include it at all?

Geoff 06:32, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I heard yet another version of this story; Modest Mouse was a phrase that Isaac Brock had to repeat as an exercise for speech therapy to help correct his lisp.

Erm, the name came from a book Isaac read. He even said so in interviews. - Oatis

Isaac Brock has given multiple explanations as to the origin of the name. Perhaps that should be noted.

FINALLY, I found a source that says that the origin of the band's name is from The Mark On The Wall. Its here. Also, on the front page of what is now probably Modest Mouse's main fansite, it says the quote from the Mark on The Wall. So I guess I'll add that to the citation on the Modest Mouse page too. Arnesh 01:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

well i found a better source, i think. the journalist Alan Goldsher (http://www.alangoldsher.com/) wrote an autobiography of modest mouse, although i still can't find an actual interview with brock which would be best. about two thirds through this audio exert (http://media.hbpub.com/stmartins/goldsher/alan_goldsher_modest_mouse_chapter_2.mp3) the name of the band is discussed 86.155.193.185 (talk) 21:28, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

"Most Music Fans"
I removed the following lead in to the sentence describing the reaction to The Moon and Antarctica: "Despite lacklustre support from most music fans..."

There is no way to prove this and it's irrelevant as far as I can tell.

Jedidiah 17:15, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

The new single
It's available. http://download.yousendit.com/A3A9A6D828976608
 * Please don't add links to videos. That's frowned upon on talk pages. And remember to SIGN your posts too. Doc Strange 12:41, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Modest Mouse documentary
There is no evidence that this film is knowingly infringing copyright, and reason to suspect that it is not. It was uploaded to both You Tube and Google video, and linked by a legitimate documentary film site:. The You Tube uploader credited the director both in the description and at the end of the film. Uploader also stated that the film will never be released (it's not commercial length for a doc, in either tv--50-60 min--or theatrical release--70 min plus). Nor is it a commerical film--it's superindie. The director died young of cancer (b. 1976-d. 2002). It looks like his friends or his family released the film after his death. It's been up, all over the internet, for a while now. In the absence of a complaint from 1) an inheritor of the copyright 2) Modest Mouse, stating that any music wasn't licensed, there's no reason this link shouldn't stay.-Cindery 19:17, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I've replaced the YT link with a better one. ---J.S (T/C/WRE) 20:46, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Alternative Rock? Uh... I think not.

Picture/members
Why do the names listed in the picture caption not match the ones listed in the members sections of the infobox? - Zepheus <ゼィフィアス> 21:18, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

More members?
On their myspace there's six people in the band photo, there's only four listed in the core members section. I'm not a huge fan, so those of you who might know who those other two are can update the page. Thedeadreligionfx 03:16, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Yeah, I just looked and the picture needs to be updated, and the core members needs to be updated. The picture in the corner has everyone except now it's Johnny Marr instead of Dann Gallucci, and I think Joe Plummer should be considered a core member if he's in the band photo, but I'll wait to edit it until someone replies.Thedeadreligionfx 03:21, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Just because those other members are in a promo photo doesn't mean they are main members. Modest Mouse has tons of friends/associates who help with extra instrumentation and vocals on their albums and sometimes help tour with them. These people can be considered "other members", because they are not regualr, long lasting, song-writing, etc. members of the band. Isaac Brock did say that Marr is a "full-blown member of the band" so it would probably be safe to say hes a core member. It's not "Marr instead of Dann Gallucci." Marr is not "replacing Dann. And Dann was not even a regular member anyways. He helped with some extra guitars, keyboards, etc. Either way, if you know Modest Mouse, you should probably know this. Arnesh 09:38, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

 * *One vote to edit the picture... anyone else? --Travisthurston 07:32, 7 February 2007 (UTC)
 * What do you mean when you say "edit the picture"? Arnesh 23:37, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

Lo-Fi...?
Someone recently added lo-fi to their genre. I don't think this really constitutes there genre. Yeah, I guess they have the crappy sounding recordings on albums like Sad Sappy Sucker, but that is because those were actually random, crappy, early recordings. I think we can all agree that they have not had a "lo-fi" sound since their very early recordings, when they were much more punky/garage bandish. The band has of coure evolved as well from their punk/garage roots.In their early years they could probably be classified as punk rock or alternative punk or something like that. Obviously, singles like Float On and Dashboard are not at all "lo-fi". I'm going to remove lo-fi from their genre, because, at least currently, they are not lo-fi, but if someone thinks different, give a reason why you think they can be considered lo-fi on this talk page. Arnesh 23:38, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't lo-fi also count as not using pro tools and editing a record in post. Up until Moon & Antarctica, they didn't do hardly a thing other than double track Isaac's voice. --Rubiksphere 08:17, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Tom Peloso is not a core member.
Tom Peloso has only worked with the band with extra instrumentation on Good News. He is not one of the main members. The truly "core" members are Brock, Green, and Judy. They founded the band and came from the ground up. I guess Marr could be considered a core member, because he helped with songwriting on We Were Dead. If doing some extra instrumentation on one album makes you a core meber, you might as well add ALL of those "other members" to the core mebers section and say that Modest Mouse's core is comprised of 13 people. The definition of core meber is pretty much someone the band could not be without. (Even though Jeremiah Green left the band due to a mental breakdown during recording of Good News, but he is still core member) Peloso is just another one of Modest Mouse's "associates". Also, I'm once again removing lo-fi from their genre...See my above post about that. Arnesh 09:28, 6 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I guess he is... Modest Mouse's myspace page says he and joe plummer are main members so whatever. Arnesh 00:57, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
 * The credits for the new album say "Modest Mouse is Isaac Brock, Jeremiah Green, Eric Judy, Johnny Marr, Tom Peloso & Joe Plummer." So they're officially a six-piece now.

I have just written a review for the latest album and it came with a press release from the record label which claims that Modest Mouse in fact have 6 members, the six that wikipedia currently lists. So it should stay. Robmac.

Interesting
I feel the line, "In 2003, drummer Jeremiah Green quit the band due to a mental breakdown; the official word was that he was quitting to work with his side project, Vells," should cite its source. Fuch 17:29, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

Emo?
Actually, they're not at all, so..I don't know why that genre was put there. I removed it. Oreo
 * Here's the thing with MM and emo. All Music Guide calls them emo. From what i remember, they list the band with second gen emo bands like At the Drive-In (which also are not emo by the definition created by the third and fourth gen emo bands), but they've also grown out of the genre well before Good News Doc Strange (talk) 17:51, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

modest mouse is most def. not emo —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.134.24 (talk) 22:06, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

i never thought people could get so hung up on the genre of the band - what does it matter? everyones going to be able to cite a hundred bands commonly called 'indie' and therefore claim MM are therefore this, or another hundred bands that sound loosely similar that go under the heading 'emo' - just stick with facts like how many band members, instruments, and the bands own opinion of the kind of music they create —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.155.193.185 (talk) 20:55, 1 June 2008 (UTC)

 * Genres do fulfill a role for those who may not know much about a group, general readers but also journalists, deejays and others who cite Wikipedia. In a scholarly sense, then, getting it right is important. Devoted fans, of course, can really get up in arms about the issue; hence the "hang up" over accuracy. As for "facts," genres can be debatable not they're not subjective, but all we can do is report what "authoritative" sources tell us and try to sort out any conflicts. Oh, and emo MM ain't, so I don't know what to say about AllMusic, usually a decent source. One possibility would be to contact them for either clarification or revision. Allreet (talk) 00:12, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

I second the removing of emo. Also, none of the wiki pages for any of their records state emo as a genre. Narcolepticpathos (talk) 20:12, 8 July 2010 (UTC)

Pickin' On
I just made the Pickin' On Modest Mouse album, a bluegrass tribute. Should revisions be made to the discography to include a tribute album? It should be linked in somehow. The article regarding the Metallica Discography includes their tribute albums. And if anyone has anything to contribute to the above stated article, it would be greatly appreaciated FerventDove 18:10, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Isaac Brock Self-Mutilation and Album Leak
Two entries were removed on the grounds of unencyclopedic, but I added them again for these reasons: The Sioux Falls event was well documented (the Pitchfork article being the only one which can be sourced here, but two videos of a bloodied Brock, and blog entries, again, can not be sourced here). The bit about the album leak should stay, if for nothing else, to give context to MGM v. Grokster case. It's not sourced, per se, but it's been on the We Were Dead Before the Ship Even Sank article since it happened. If some can definitively say this is libelous (regarding Sioux Falls) or any other stated reason, edits should be made accordingly, and to the Isaac Brock entry (which contains same content) or the We Were Dead... article. FerventDove 19:12, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I removed the entries. If it's not sourced it is not sourced, there isn't much per se to be had there.  As to his injury and the Pitchfork article (which I saw at the time), I still fail to see what these edits have to do with Modest Mouse as an encyclopedic entry.  News events don't warrant entries, IMO.  Teke  04:17, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Sun Kil Moon's Tiny Cities
I think Sun Kil Moon's Tiny_Cities deserves to be somehow mentioned in the Modest Mouse article. It's not actual MM discography but is notable and surely of interest to readers. I'm not sure how this information could be integrated into the article properly but it seems worth exploring. Not to mention, the lyrics and the title to "Ocean Breaths Salty" are a cover from Tiny Cities. Johntroy 13:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Modest Mouse is MODEST MOUSE not "just" Isaac Brock
I have a problem of the following quote in the 2nd paragraph, in regards to either its NPOV or its verifiablility. "Ultimately, Modest Mouse is singularly Isaac Brock who is the main creative force behind the band's unique sound and style."

In keeping with an opinionated point of view, I find that Modest Mouse is a result of not one member creating its sound, but all of its members (at any time period) being so in tune with each other that changes in the line up results in dramatic changes in the sound. If it was only Brock creating the sound then member changes would have no effect on the overall "sound" of the music.

Also I'd like to point out that on the new album, (buy it and read the credits), it is written: "Lyrics by Isaac Brock", followed on the next two lines by the copyrights and their attributes. Then on a single, separated line: "Modest Mouse is Isaac Brock, Jeremiah Green, Eric Judy, Johnny Marr, Tom Peloso, Joe Plummer"

Brock is credited specifically for the lyrics, not the music itself.

Based on this and other various impressions, I find it hardly possible that any one member, including Isaac Brock himself, would claim that "Modest Mouse is singularly Isaac Brock" or that [He] "is the main creative force behind the band's unique sound and style"

Not only is this statement, in my book, a biased opinion, but a uneducated one as well, unless the statement can be supported with quotes coming from the band stating it to actually be the case.

The statement WOULD apply if it were made in such a case as Josh Homme of "Queens of the Stone Age". Which leads me to point out a quote from the Wikipedia article of Josh Homme, (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joshua_Homme), and how such a statement is an example of how I think it could be worded better, in a factual manner:

"Homme is the founder and only continuous member of rock band Queens of the Stone Age (QOTSA), for which he sings and plays guitar."

Replace "Modest Mouse" with "Queens of the Stone Age" and "Issac Brock" with "Josh Homme" with in the statement I am disputing, and then move the entire statement over to Hommes' article and I would no longer have anything to dispute. The sentence would look like this: "Ultimately, Queens of the Stone Age is singularly Josh Homme who is the main creative force behind the band's unique sound and style."

The rest of Modest Mouse deserves credit too...

Stormlilly 08:49, 30 March 2007 (UTC)Stormlilly

 * I agree, I think it is further proof of the "band" by adding Johnny Marr and the influence that Ugly Casanova collaborative session had. I removed the paragraph.  You could have!  Teke  05:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

So from what your saying up there, Nirvana was just Kurt Cobain because he wrote all the music, and from 1972-1983, Pink Floyd was just Roger Waters. That's some crazy thinking Doc Strange 12:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

i agree the credit should b spread but isaac is the brains behind the band —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.134.24 (talk) 22:08, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Dashboard
Who keeps adding "Dashboard" as a Top 40 Hit in the US? According to the Billboard Hot 100 (as of 4/4/07) the single is at #59. Not #20 as claimed in this article. I replaced it with the accurate chart peak. If the person who is doing this is using an alternate chart (say Radio & Records), they should know that US chart peaks are for the Billboard Hot 100 only and not the Billboard Hot Airplay, Pop 100 or other alternate chart. Also Modern Rock chart peaks should be included written as "#1 US Modern Rock" (like "Float On"), not simly #1 US. Doc Strange 12:39, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

John Wickhart
I'm confused whether Eric Judy was in the band since the beginning or not. Their early history is very hazy. In this interview Eric is said to be in the band since it's beginnings, but Sad Sappy Sucker credits John Wickhart, and Calvin Johnson (who produced Sad Sappy Sucker and Lonesome Crowded West) says in the Untitled Documentary that (out of memory I'm saying this, correct me if I'm wrong) that it's his third session with Modest Mouse, and first one with Eric (and second one with Jeremiah). But recent articles insist Eric was in the band before Jeremiah even was. Just wondering--liam 23:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

We need to put something about the live shows.
About how Issac Brock has been known to lie down for entire shows and has cut himself numerous times on stage during a concert. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 24.243.119.105 (talk) 05:33, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

 * This is covered at his page, I don't really think we need a seperate section here about it... AllynJ 10:13, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Someone straighten this out
Why are "3rd Planet" and "Gravity Rides Everything" named as singles from The Moon and Antarctica in the text, but the infobox for singles doesn't include them or anything from that album? 172.171.115.147 06:21, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

u can buy the one song hence single —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.76.134.24 (talk) 22:09, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Indie Rock?
There's no way they can be indie rock, as they are signed to a major label - ZEROpumpkins (talk) 23:36, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Currently, they are more of an alternative noise rock band, but their previous material is all considered indie rock. —Vanishdoom (talk) 04:01, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Indie is how nearly all bands start out, but it's become a genre that also describes a sound as well as an approach. As long as MM and writers refer to the group as such - and other writers don't dispute it - it's not our job to split hairs. But being signed to a major label after making it as an indie doesn't disqualify a group from the "club," unless they also abandon other ideals associated with the term and reliable sources make note of this. Allreet (talk) 00:18, 12 October 2010 (UTC)

They are totally indie rock. I have multiple times added "noise pop" was a genre, but someone keeps undoing it. Tezkag72 (talk) 03:57, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

Two Drummers?
Whats going on here? the video for we've got everything has two dudes on the skins and I was just wondering what the deal was with these guys. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.217.30.197 (talk) 04:47, 8 November 2008 (UTC)
 * It's not unusual for bands to have two drummers. For most of their career, the Grateful Dead had two drummers at once, and ...And You Will Know Us By the Trail of Dead currently have two drummers. In fact, the metal band Slipknot actually have three drummers. Doc StrangeMailbox Logbook 18:06, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Johnny Marr Not A Past Member
Johnny Marr is a current member. He is not joining the band on their current tour but there is nothing that has led us to believe that he has left the band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.220.13.207 (talk) 23:51, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes, he's working with The Cribs, a British band he recently joined, on their next album. He is remaining in Modest Mouse but is just sitting out this tour. Doc StrangeMailbox Logbook 18:07, 21 March 2009 (UTC)

Band name--Virginia Woolf?
I see that this article claims that the band name comes from Virginia Woolf, and then simply links to a passage of hers with "modest mouse" in it. Does that prove anything? I bet I could find some literature that includes the phrase "the pixies." I've read a few articles that have said that "Modest Mouse" comes from someone commenting on how Isaac Brock used to sing--like a "modest mouse," because it sounded so timid. Ha, how different it is today! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.199.82.150 (talk) 04:49, 19 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I tracked down a ref for the name origin and added it. Bon appetit! - Richfife (talk) 04:36, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Tube-Fruit, All Smiles and Chocolate
Not sure it qualifies as an album. More like a recorded noodling session. But, at 77 minutes and 25 tracks, it's not an EP either. New section for it? - Richfife (talk) 02:15, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Origin of Name
Everyone keeps telling me that Modest Mouse was named after Modest Mussorgsky. Is this true? If so, it should be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.122.237.98 (talk) 01:00, 25 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Apparently not. See the Virginia Woolf references in the article. - Richfife (talk) 04:24, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Style
With many bands/musicians, there is a style section that discusses the bands style. It would be helpful to have on in here as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.174.127.145 (talk) 15:33, 26 July 2011 (UTC)

Sections
I am just wondering why there is a section for recent work. Wasnt We were dead before the ship sank also mainstream? I mean it did get gold certification within a year or 2 and was number one on a chart. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Happymeal33 (talk • contribs) 23:07, 27 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I have renamed the section "Initial mainstream success" from just "Mainstream success" to clarify. —Akrabbimtalk

Two new songs
I added infor about the songs they played during their headline at sasquatch plus a link. If you think the link isnt strong enough, then I will get antoher one. Happymeal33 (talk) 19:38, 9 September 2011 (UTC)

Portland, Oregon
Why is it constantly edited out that Modest Mouse resides in Portland? They have for several years. I have added it multiple times in the last few years that Modest Mouse lives in Portland, and there are verifiable sources. Is there a content-related reason for taking it out? It is an interesting and relevant fact. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.160.58.40 (talk) 23:09, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Album missing in Discography from 2001
In the Discography part there is one Album missing; "Everywhere and His Nasty Parlour Tricks".

The Album itself is already on wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Everywhere_and_His_Nasty_Parlour_Tricks — Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.20.26.134 (talk) 21:57, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

Formation
How come the first section is titled "formation" when it doesn't talk about any part of it?Zdawg1029 (talk) 04:06, 23 August 2014 (UTC)

Strangers to Ourselves
References to and information about the (currently upcoming) album Strangers to Ourselves should be added. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gjklassen (talk • contribs) 22:13, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified (February 2018)
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More expansions to this article surrounding the band.
Hey There. Will there expansions to this article on Modest Mouse. The reason I am asking this is because despite being known for one popular song Float On. They were actually well loved in plenty of Indie circles. If expansions are aren’t an option. Then that’s fine. Do apologize for my vagueness. That’s all I have to say. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.174.128.213 (talk) 18:40, 16 February 2022 (UTC)

Add Baron Von Bullshit to discography?
Should Baron von Bullshit Rides Again be added to the discography section? It's on Spotify (link) and it's in the main discography page Modest Mouse discography, but there is no mention of it here. Motorizedtrees (talk) 22:33, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Modest Mouse


text:
CPA Australia

CPA Australia ("Certified Practising Accountant") is a professional accounting body in Australia, originally founded as the "Incorporated Institute of Accountants" in 1886. As of 31 December 2020, it has 168,736 members in 150 countries and regions around the world. CPA Australia currently has 19 staffed offices across Australia, China, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Singapore, Indonesia, Vietnam, New Zealand and the UK.

History
The current form of CPA Australia dates from 1952, when the Commonwealth Institute and Federal Institute merged to create the Australian Society of Accountants. In July 1990 the name changed to the Australian Society of Certified Practising Accountants, and in April 2000, the name became CPA Australia.

The main predecessor bodies of the Society, with year of formation, were:
 * Incorporated Institute of Accountants, 1886
 * Federal Institute of Accountants, 1894
 * Association of Accountants of Australia, 1910
 * Australasian Institute of Cost Accountants, 1920

2017 CEO controversy
The CEO of CPA Australia from 2009, Alex Malley, came under significant criticism in the media and from CPA members in 2017 for his A$1.8 million annual salary and for the significant amounts of CPA funds going towards promoting Malley and his personal interests, such as a paid television show and Malley's autobiography. The scandal surrounding Malley, combined with broader member discontent over executive changes that made the board unaccountable and debts accrued from the establishment of a financial planning arm, led to the resignation of the CPA president Tyrone Carlin in May 2017, and then to two board members resigning a week later in June 2017. The resigning board members, Richard Alston and Kerry Ryan, cited the presence of "board allies of chief executive Alex Malley" refusing to "allow a wide-ranging review of Mr Malley and the organisation" as their main reason. The board resignations had also followed former Future Fund Chairman and Commonwealth Bank CEO, David Murray, who resigned his 40-year CPA membership in response to what he saw as poor management within CPA.

On 15 June, a further three directors resigned due to the expanding scandal surrounding Malley and the remaining board initiated an "independent review" of all claims made against CPA and its CEO, to be chaired by former chief of the Australian Defence Force, Sir Angus Houston. However, even the decision to create the review came under criticism when it was revealed that Houston had appeared as guest on Malley's TV program and had written a glowing foreword in Malley's book. Houston later resigned his post in favour of former Commonwealth Auditor-General, Ian McPhee.

Facing a significant swelling of discontent amongst CPA members, in June 2017 it was announced that the CPA board had terminated the contract of Malley, resulting in CPA paying out the remainder of his contract to the sum of A$4.9 million. On the developing scandal, Sydney Morning Herald journalist Colin Kruger noted: "Accountancy is meant to be the profession of sober financial clarity. [...] Not the sort of profession for flashy types, accountants are meant to be the score keepers, not the goal scorers. It makes the lack of accountability, and financial clarity, from the top accounting body in Australia – CPA Australia – all the more incongruous."

In August 2017, it was announced that the remaining board members would resign their positions at the end of the year, to make way for an entirely new board. The subsequent review report released in September 2017 found that the "chief executive was overpaid, [CPA Australia] had lost touch with its members and provided questionable value for money for the services it rendered." In addition to CPA's "over-emphasis on marketing and brand building activities that centred on the former CEO", the review in particular noted the excessive CEO's salary, with its many increases over several years not being justified by organisational growth. On 1 October 2017 an entirely new board took office, headed by Peter Wilson as president and chairman, and on 3 April 2018 a new CEO, Andrew Hunter, was appointed to take over from the interim CEO since Malley's departure, Adam Awty. In January 2019, following the recommendations of the 2018 AGM, Malley and three previous directors (Penny Egan, former president Richard Petty, and Graeme Wade) were stripped of their Life Memberships by the Board for their involvement in the controversy.

In March 2024, CPA announced Chris Freeland as their new CEO.

Membership
Full members of CPA Australia use the designatory letters CPA, while senior members with at least 15 years' experience in finance, accounting or business, as well as leadership and/or management experience in those fields, may become Fellows and use the letters FCPA. The board may also confer life membership or honorary membership for "eminent achievement and service" to CPA Australia and/or the profession. In 2017, CPA Australia disclosed that the organisation had (as of 30 June 2017) 158,311 members, including 119,653 voting members. The membership at this time comprised 106,299 CPAs, 13,154 FCPAs, and 38,838 associate members.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: CPA Australia


text:
User talk:Escapeartist

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what kind of bands deserve the title metalcore?
My friend I try to understand if bands like throwdown or hatebreed are originally metalcore(metal+hardcore) or bands like as i lay dying and unearth.Excuse me for my english.(i can't stand people that name emo bands metalcore) Anchell

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ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:52, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Escapeartist


text: Category:Canadian cartoonists

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text: User talk:66.24.191.147

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Talk:S.L. Benfica

Semi-protected edit request on 2 August 2023
Could you add benfica's UEFA profile (https://www.uefa.com/nationalassociations/teams/50147--benfica/) in (External links)? 41.47.109.28 (talk) 20:12, 2 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ ARandomName123 (talk)Ping me! 00:49, 3 August 2023 (UTC)

Someone removed it 22:35, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 August 2023
Benfica won 9 Supertaça https://www.abola.pt/nnh/2023-08-09/supertaca-benfica-bate-fc-porto-e-conquista-a-nona-supertaca-veja-os-golos/999863 SuperAguilla (talk) 23:12, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
 * The article already says this in a couple of places. RudolfRed (talk) 00:34, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 10 August 2023
Anatoliy Trubin is Benfica player https://www.slbenfica.pt/pt-pt/agora/noticias/2023/08/10/futebol-benfica-trubin-contratacao SuperAguilla (talk) 18:04, 10 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Pinchme123 (talk) 22:26, 10 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 August 2023
Change please: In squad list David Neres is forward but Neres is midfielder Source https://www.slbenfica.pt/en-us/futebol/plantel-principal SuperAguilla (talk) 22:00, 11 August 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  06:36, 12 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:S.L. Benfica


text:
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title: User talk:Animusicboy


text:
User talk:Cippalippa

Welcome, Cipp
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia.

 * Helpful links : Editing || Writing a great article || Naming || Style Manual || Policies Reassigning old edits || What Wikipedia is not

 * Maintenance : Deleting articles || all maintenance tasks (see also open tasks, below)

Uploading images: please note the origins and copyright status of every image you upload.

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I hope you enjoy being a Wikipedian on en:. Drop us a note at New user log so we can meet you and help you get started. You can also leave questions on my talk page. :)

Regards, +sj + 21:27, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

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title: User talk:Cippalippa


text:
Harry Hughes

Harry Roe Hughes (November 13, 1926 – March 13, 2019) was an American politician from the Democratic Party who served as the 57th Governor of Maryland from 1979 to 1987.

Early life and family
Hughes was born in Easton, Maryland, the son of Helen (Roe) and Jonathan Longfellow Hughes. Hughes attended Caroline County, Maryland, public schools before attending the Mercersburg Academy in Mercersburg, Pennsylvania. After school, Hughes served in the U.S. Naval Air Corps during the Second World War.

After the War, Hughes continued his education by attending Mount Saint Mary's University and the University of Maryland, from which he graduated in 1949. At Maryland he was a member of the Alpha Psi chapter of the Theta Chi social fraternity. He received his law degree from The George Washington University Law School in 1952 and was admitted to the Maryland Bar the same year. Hughes married his wife, Patricia Donoho Hughes, on June 30, 1951. They have two daughters, Ann and Elizabeth. Patricia Hughes died on January 20, 2010, in Denton at the age of 79.

Prior to his election as governor, Hughes was an attorney and one-time professional baseball player in the Eastern Shore League. From 1966 to 1970, Hughes was the chairman of Maryland Democratic State Central Committee.

Political career
Hughes began his political career as a member of the Maryland House of Delegates from 1955 to 1959, representing Caroline County. He was elected a member of the Maryland Senate in 1958 and served until 1970 for district 15, representing Caroline, Cecil, Kent, Queen Anne's, and Talbot counties. In 1971, Hughes was offered and accepted the position of Secretary of Transportation for the state.

In May 1977, however, Hughes resigned from his position because of a disagreement in the State Department of Transportation regarding the award of a construction contract for a subway in Baltimore.

Hughes was elected governor in 1978 after defeating Lieutenant Governor Blair Lee III in the Democratic primary election, and Republican John Glenn Beall, Jr. in the general election. Among other things, Hughes was a strong advocate for the Chesapeake Bay. He signed into law such legislation as that approving the Chesapeake Bay Agreement, which set into motion efforts to restore the Bay and recover from excessive fishing.

Also during his administration, Maryland initiated foreign trade with China. The Savings and Loan crisis, involving the failure of many savings and loan organizations across the United States, hit Maryland near the end of Hughes' tenure with the run at Old Court Savings and Loans, but nevertheless steps were taken to insure Maryland savings and loans organizations. Hughes served two terms, defeating Republican challenger Robert A. Pascal in 1982, and concluded his governorship in 1987.

In 1986, Hughes and Congressman Michael D. Barnes both unsuccessfully sought the Democratic nomination for the United States Senate seat being vacated by Charles "Mac" Mathias. They lost to Barbara Mikulski, who went on to win the general election.

Later career
Hughes was a member of the Chesapeake Bay Trust from 1995 to 2003; a member of the Board of Regents of the University System of Maryland from 1996 to 2000; the chairman of the Blue Ribbon Citizens Pfiesteria Commission in 1997; the chairman of the Maryland Appellate Judicial Nominating Commission from 1999 to 2003; and a member of the committee to Establish the Maryland Survivors Scholarship Fund from 2001 to 2002. Hughes was a member of the Advisory Committee for the Eastern Shore Land Conservancy's board of directors.

Hughes published an autobiography in 2006.

After a series of illnesses, including pneumonia, Hughes died under hospice care at his home in Denton on March 13, 2019, aged 92.

title: Harry Hughes


text:
Masalit language

Masalit (autonym Masala/Masara; ماساليت) is a Nilo-Saharan language of the Maban language group spoken by the Masalit people in Ouaddaï Region, Chad and West Darfur, Sudan.

Masalit, known as the Massalat, moved west into central-eastern Chad. Their ethnic population in Chad was as of the 1993 census, but only 10 speakers of their language were reported in 1991.

Consonants

 * It has been stated that occasional click sounds and  may occur, however; they are considered to be rare.
 * Sounds can occur as geminated.
 * Sounds /t, m, n, ŋ/ can occur as palatalized [tʲ, mʲ, nʲ, ŋʲ] before front vowels.
 * only occur as a result of words of Arabic origin.
 * is not a phonemic sound, and is only heard before word-initial vowels.
 * Sounds only occur in word-initial position.

Sociolects
The Masalit language has two sociolects:
 * "Heavy" Masalit, spoken by higher-ranking people and those in the countryside, with a complicated agglutinative grammar
 * "Light" Masalit, spoken particularly in the home and in the market, with a somewhat simplified grammatical structure and many borrowings from Sudanese Arabic, the regional lingua franca and language of education.

title: Masalit language


text:
Talk:Sporting CP

Rivalary
It seems to me that a user is constantly updating this area to something that has no interest to the section, like about a episode about a banner, if we are going to write about every single time a football clube put a banner we gonna need the whole internet, so i dont see the interest of this particular episode. I do agree thoug that the 1996 final of portuguese cup was a key moment in the rivalary between sporting and benfica, since was the first time and only time a fan died consequence of the rivalary, being quoted as the darkest day of portuguese football. The other episodes seem to me a way of enabling the latter episode and justify it even thoug it happended 20 years after and which the severity of it is banal. — Preceding unsigned comment added by OctopusFactCheck (talk • contribs) 15:11, 27 July 2018 (UTC)

 * You lost me a bit here, I read through the rivalry section and don't really see much wrong other than some poorly written English. Porto vs Sporting rivalry could certainly do with being expanded upon. Govvy (talk) 11:17, 28 July 2018 (UTC)

The rivalry section between Sporting and Porto is not elaborated on but it is also wrong. There is no alliance between Sporting and Porto. The sources provided to support this are from tabloid newspapers. Both clubs are supporting the judicial processes against Benfica since both might benefit from it but that does not make an alliance... The clubs even had the official ties cut until recently...--JRosa (talk) 16:49, 4 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Firstly, Wikipedia is not a forum, and definetely not Reddit. Secondly, both Porto and Sporting are involved in judicial processes for corruption, especially the latter – Cashball. Lastly, just stop creating new accounts. SLBedit (talk) 20:50, 5 January 2019 (UTC)

Hi there. I confirmed the fact that the futsal derby (https://www.zerozero.pt/jogo.php?id=3666265) happened before the football derby (https://www.zerozero.pt/jogo.php?id=3597315). Also I don’t think that when describing the Sporting Porto rivalry, one can say that they formed an alliance against Benfica, it just seems biased and simplistic. Also Sporting CP has a new president since 9th September 2019, following the dismissal of the previous president by the club’s “sócios”. Regards. Pddalmeida (talk) 17:53, 8 March 2019 (UTC)

Hi there. I revised the text regarding the number of members ("sócios") of the club and created a more recent and accurate citation in that regard. I also revised the text regarding the incidents that took place in the Lisbon Derbies of futsal and football, that happened respectively on the 7th and 8th February 2015, as it's described in the citations about this issue. I also changed the text regarding the rivalry between Sporting and Porto, since the alleged alliance between the two clubs against Benfica, doesn't exist anymore, given the fact that Sporting has a new President since the 9th September 2018. Best regards.Pddalmeida (talk) 00:48, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

Non-notable honours
has been adding non-notable honours such as the Small World Cup and the Iberian Cup, calling them European competitions and without adding sources. The UEFA Intertoto Cup might be considered a notable honour, but it's unsourced; even its article doesn't say Sporting won it. SLBedit (talk) 15:11, 29 September 2020 (UTC)

Sporting Lisbon
Even Sporting CP website states that the club is known as Sporting Lisbon outside Portugal:

"Various loose affiliations and denominations, in the form of the different names used to define the Club outside of Portugal (with the Club largely being known a "Sporting Lisbon" abroad), worked to create a little anarchy and diversity in the shaping of the new identity of the Club that has always aimed to be a leader of the national panoramic and to be of international reputation."

Previous discussions:

Talk:Sporting CP/Archive 1

Talk:Sporting CP/Archive 1.

Talk:Sporting CP/Archive 1 SLBedit (talk) 19:45, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

If you cared about being honest, you would have pasted the entire quote. That sentence is taken from a paragraph explaining that the new badge includes the words "Sporting" and "Portugal" PRECISELY to emphasize the correct name of the club.

"The words "Sporting" and "Portugal", now written as complete words and no longer as abbreviations or initials, where introduced to emphasis the national dimension of the Club and to present the official name of the Club on the international level; " Royk14 (talk) 19:52, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

I'm sorry for my language, but this is a subject that I feel it shouldn't even be under discussion. Royk14 (talk) 19:56, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

 * "If you cared about being honest", you wouldn't divert the discussion to the club's emblem. We are discussing the fact that Sporting is known as Sporting Lisbon outside of Portugal, according to international media and the club itself. I get it that the club is trying to be known as "Sporting Portugal" abroad, but that doesn't make "Sporting Lisbon" erroneous.

 * Apology accepted, but almost everything on Wikipedia is subject to discussion. If you are not prepared to discuss, you shouldn't be editing. SLBedit (talk) 20:04, 15 March 2021 (UTC)

Yet another attempt of WP:ADVOCACY. SLBedit (talk) 20:08, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

 * stop edit warring. There is no consensus to remove "Sporting Lisbon". SLBedit (talk) 23:26, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Stop. SLBedit (talk) 14:19, 26 April 2023 (UTC)

 * The fuck do you mean "Stop"? Leave me alone and don't @ me again. Mwiqdoh (talk) 18:45, 26 April 2023 (UTC)
 * Remain civil. SLBedit (talk) 21:47, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

Why should we? SLBedit (talk) 00:43, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

 * Neither the club nor its fans like that denomination. It seems disrespectful to any institution to be called a name that they are not. I'd consider distasteful if internationally our rivals would be called FC Oporto or Benfica Lisbon, for instance. BrunoLxxx (talk) 01:38, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * You and the club may consider it disrespectful, but this is the English Wikipedia, and in English countries people do say and write "Sporting Lisbon" (even Cristiano Ronaldo said it that way). In Spain, it's common for them to say/write "Oporto". In Germany, "Benfica Lissabon" is common. It has nothing to do with being disrespectful; it's a cultural thing. SLBedit (talk) 01:55, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * Sport Lisboa e Benfica has the word "Lisbon" on it. Futebol Clube do Porto has the word "Oporto/Porto" on it. Sporting Clube de Portugal doesn't have a city name on it but the name of a country (since 1906). That makes all the difference. The way foreigners unfamiliar with the club name and history distort the name of the club is a gross inaccuracy and that should be stated in the lead as it was stated before and promptly reverted by you, a SL Benfica supporter, over and over again. A. Landmesser (talk) 15:24, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * SCP is known as Sporting Lisbon outside Portugal. Your opinion doesn't matter. Stop removing sources and adding POV. SLBedit (talk) 16:11, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Administrator intervertion will be required if you keep disrupting. SLBedit (talk) 16:18, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Sporting Lisbon remains at the lead. The inaccuracy must be explained according to consensus. We already know your opinions, SLBedit. They aren't vinculative. This is the most balanced and equitable way to solve the issue. A. Landmesser (talk) 16:24, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * You wrote that after another revert. Stop reverting. Don't add "innacurately" to the lead; it isn't neutral. SLBedit (talk) 16:28, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * You are the one with conflict of interest because you are a Sporting Lisbon fan. SLBedit (talk) 16:32, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Where is the evidence that the fans find it disrespectful? Govvy (talk) 11:01, 22 May 2023 (UTC)
 * This section offers plenty of valuable information about the topic: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sporting_CP#Names . A. Landmesser (talk) 14:55, 29 April 2024 (UTC)
 * That's no reason to censor it from the lead. SLBedit (talk) 15:06, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

Sporting Lisbon fans still continue to remove "Sporting Lisbon", ignoring reliable sources. A. Landmesser continues not to reinstate that information because they have conflict of interest. SLBedit (talk) 14:17, 29 April 2024 (UTC)

 * Blatant Conflict of interest (COI) editing: even the source SLBedit insists to add is about a degrading episode in the history of Sporting CP. Always the same modus operandi that people are starting to notice. Others left Wikipedia for good because of editors like him. The most balanced and equitable way to solve the issue is to properly explain the issues with the use of "Sporting Lisbon" without erasing it from the lead. A. Landmesser (talk) 16:58, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Sourced content reverted
This short explanation was reverted without a valid reason by a SL Benfica advocate. I would ask the administrators to pay attention to the multiple abuses by this user, who has absurd prejudices towards Portuguese football and is against anything that is not in the interests of his SL Benfica. A. Landmesser (talk) 08:16, 22 February 2024 (UTC)
 * You shouldn't have added off-topic advocacy to the Crest and shirt section. SLBedit (talk) 20:09, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

Edit war started by User:A. Landmesser
"The innacuracy must be explained according to consensus". There never was consensus about that. SLBedit (talk) 16:37, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

 * You don't make the consensus alone. Many users have said it to you. Your actions are a Blatant Conflict of interest (COI) editing: even the source you insist to add is about a degrading episode in the history of Sporting CP. Always the same modus operandi that people are starting to notice but nobody cares. Others left Wikipedia for good because of editors like you. The most balanced and equitable way to solve the issue is to properly explain the issues with the use of "Sporting Lisbon" without erasing it from the lead. A. Landmesser (talk) 17:07, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Will you stop harrassing me and stop copy-pasting the same aspersions? SLBedit (talk) 17:10, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Boy, I've better things to this week at Estádio de Alvalade. Have a nice day. A. Landmesser (talk) 17:15, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Are you implying that you work for Sporting Lisbon? I do not care about your personal life, but if you are a paid editor, you must tell Wikipedia. Paid-contribution disclosure SLBedit (talk) 17:29, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Sporting Lisbon
You need a new section to discuss this to start afresh. Don't turn it into personal attacks or refer to each other's motives. There are currently cited references to support both points of view.

What's wrong with this compromise: and occasionally as Sporting Lisbon outside other countries? I don't buy the offensiveness argument, that's unsourced and WP:NOTCENSORED. Local Variable (talk) 17:10, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

 * "I don't buy the offensiveness argument, that's unsourced and WP:NOTCENSORED" That's the whole point. It's only "offensive" to some Sporting Lisbon fans. SLBedit (talk) 17:20, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * So you don't object to the compromise? @A. Landmesser, what's wrong with the above suggestion? I agree there's controversy around the name, but the way you expressed it looked like the article was opinionated rather than objective. Wikipedia does not take opinions on these issues, it summarises what is in reliable sources. So what exactly is wrong with the above suggestion, which reflects that the name is still used (Google "Sporting Lisbon" and look at the news articles), even if it's not ubiquitous. Local Variable (talk) 17:28, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * and occasionally as Sporting Lisbon outside other countries is fine. However, that won't please users/IP addresses that have been trying to remove "Sporting Lisbon" for years. SLBedit (talk) 17:40, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Well, we'll wait and see what they say about it, rather than presume their opinion on the topic. None of the above discussion has been at all productive with no attempt to compromise. Local Variable (talk) 17:42, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I've only presumed because I know who/what I'm dealing with. It's just sad that they don't accept that there are people in the world that say "Sporting Lisbon". This whole edit warring could be avoided if they hadn't a limited view of their own club. This reminds of the "Inter Milan" story on Wikipedia, where Inter Milan fans tried to change it, without success, to "Internazionale". SLBedit (talk) 17:44, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

Here is a quote from https://www.sporting.pt/en/club/history/the-badge "Various loose affiliations and denominations, in the form of the different names used to define the Club outside of Portugal (with the Club largely being known a "Sporting Lisbon" abroad)". Even the official website acknowledges "Sporting Lisbon". What happens if A. Landmesser ignores this discussion while other users/IPs try to remove "Sporting Lisbon" from the lead? What happens if consensus is reached: will the "restore-reverts" still count as edit warring? Could someone add a note in the lead saying "do not remove "Sporting Lisbon" without reaching consensus first"? SLBedit (talk) 17:56, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

 * That will likely go in, but cool your jets: fanboys and people with axes to grind do similar edits, all over Wikipedia, thousands a day. There is no practical way for the words "Sporting Lisbon" to be engraved in granite in this article, untouchable for all time to come.  If vandalism happens, it will be reverted.  It just doesn't have to be the case that you, personally, need to be the sole guardian of the lead's purity.   Ravenswing      19:55, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

All of the sudden, stops editing and almost a month later  appears and starts pushing "Sporting Portugal" into the lead. Do you think it's a coincidence? SLBedit (talk) 15:57, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia has been recklessly vandalized by Lisboa e Benfica fan boy since years ago and you call vandals to those who try to fix this disgusting behavior in the website. Sporting Clube de Portugal is informally known as Sporting Lisbon because there isn’t such a thing as Sporting Lisbon (Portuguese sports club), Minneapolis Timberwolves (NBA team), Boston Revolution (MLS team) or Holland (sovereign state or national football team). The article about Netherlands use the term “informally” as well and people and the media around the world still employ the name Holland when it should be Netherlands. Open your eyes! SportingPortugaledit (talk) 22:11, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Number of league titles
Sporting CP supporters are again pushing their own league title count. Officially, the club has 20 league titles. I will revert ALL those edits per WP:ADVOCACY and WP:UNSOURCED. SLBedit (talk) 22:32, 7 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Sporting CP


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Penguin language

Penguin language
Penguin language was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was was a consensus to delete the article.

"There is of course no recognized penguin language"—indeed, so why do we have an article about it? The answer, from the creator: "for consistency of links in Simpsons article [i.e. Homer Simpson, the only article that links to it]." Delete. —No-One Jones (m) 21:28, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC) This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.
 * Penguincruft? 1. Peck. 2. Collect fish. 3. Delete. Ian Pugh 22:26, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 1. Peck 2. ... 3. Profit The bellman 12:44, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. I can't see any potential for this to become a real article. Shane King 00:30, Oct 24, 2004 (UTC)
 * "So, do you think they'll do a new edition of Mrs. Gaskill this year? I'm not sure, but I understand they're looking for translators who can render The Satyricon into Edwardian prose so that it's more in keeping with the language favored by Penguin." Delete an article about a negative and probably designed to keep Pengu from being an orphan. Geogre 01:40, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * There, now nothing links to it. No reason to keep (as if there were before). Delete. -R. fiend 01:42, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, but I think this qualifies for BJAODN as an excellent example of ODN. It may even be serious, and it's been around since January. Andrewa 13:39, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, not funny enough for BJAODN. Wile E. Heresiarch 23:17, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Penguins can't talk and there doesn't appear to be any serious pop culture notability. Everyking 01:46, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete unless Tux starts talking Passw0rd 16:35, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * In all fairness, I reckon it should probably be deleted - and I wrote the thing! I still think it's quite amusing, but it's a gag, not an article.  To be honest, I'm amazed it lasted this long... --HappyDog
 * Just a note, 'written in Pengiun' means a fresh literal almost word for word translation into English, source 'The Last Samurai'.--Jondel 06:59, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete and move to BJAODN, which I think it honestly deserves. I mean come on, it's funny! Suntiger 21:00, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete nonsense - --Cyprus2k1 10:40, 28 Oct 2004 (UTC)


text:
Conjugation of auxiliary Catalan verbs

This table explains the conjugation of auxiliary Catalan verbs.

title: Conjugation of auxiliary Catalan verbs


text:
Albrecht Fröhlich

Albrecht Fröhlich FRS (22 May 1916 – 8 November 2001) was a German-born British mathematician, famous for his major results and conjectures on Galois module theory in the Galois structure of rings of integers.

Education
He was born in Munich to a Jewish family. He fled from the Nazis to France, and then to Palestine. He went to Bristol University in 1945, gaining a B.Sc. in 1948 and a Ph.D. in 1951 with a dissertation entitled On Some Topics in the Theory of Representation of Groups and Individual Class Field Theory  under the supervision of Hans Heilbronn. He was a lecturer at the University of Leicester and then at the Keele University, then in 1962 moved as reader to King's College London where he worked until his retirement in 1981 when he moved to Robinson College, Cambridge.

Awards
He was elected a Fellow of the Royal Society in 1976. He was awarded the Berwick Prize of the London Mathematical Society in 1976 and its De Morgan Medal in 1992. The Society's Fröhlich Prize is named in his honour.

Personal
He is the brother of Herbert Fröhlich.

title: Albrecht Fröhlich


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Workopolis

Workopolis
 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was keep.

Workopolis
Blatant advertising, written at least in part in the first person. — Bill 21:29, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, seems pretty obvious what this is doing here. Mo0 21:47, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Alexa Traffic Rank for workopolis.com: 1,563. It does, of course, need cleansing. Dang it, just found. Sigh Niteowlneils 23:14, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * The current article is unquestionably crap, but the site is a notable Canadian web venture that would merit a keep if the article were improved. I'll stub it. Bearcat 23:48, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. The current version of the article does a much better job of demonstrating notability and avoiding advertisement. Factitious 09:01, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Deletionism is killing articles before they have a chance to grow. Give it time, it is an  important topic. --ShaunMacPherson 19:26, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Please attempt some research into the topic before nominating for deletion. Nominator has valid points about the article, yet they do not merit nomination for deletion via the deletion policy.  This Vfd should be defaulted to keep, but i'll vote keep anywys.  — siro  χ  o  13:37, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)
 * Sorry, I only saw Bearcat's revision, this was a valid nomination. But as a general rule, try mopping things up before immediately nominating them for deletion.  Without a small amount of eventualism, Wikipedia would have very few articles.  — siro  χ  o
 * Keep. Guanaco 22:56, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


text: File:The Kiss Of Morning.jpg

title: File:The Kiss Of Morning.jpg