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Talk:Monkey Kung Fu

Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art; -Add yourself!
See: List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art. --Cyprus2k1

Merging Monkey style kung fu
I propose merging Monkey style kung fu into this article - these seem to be two and the same thing. Google searches: "monkey style kung fu" (1,640 results) and "monkey kung fu" (53,000 results). --Lox (t,c) 23:05, 2 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Merge. Absolutely. --maru (talk) Contribs 03:10, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

Fighting other styles
I would like to know how the author of the article came up with the conclusion "Monkey is the style best suited to fight snake style kung fu, and eagle claw is the best suited to defeat monkey." I'm not necessarily disputing the statement, just saying that an explanation would be nice.

 * There is a lot of bull going around about Kung Fu, some of which purport to give a (quasi-alchemic) cycle of styles in which a style vanquishes another, to itself be vanquished, until it goes around full-circle. I doubt it is based on anything, but is a mere adaptation of that. --maru  (talk)  contribs 23:41, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, this sounds very iffy - a reference would be nice. The "six styles of Monkey" are also probably a feature of only the Tai Shing Pek Kwar version of Monkey; note that there is no "the" monkey style, as there are several (for example, the Monkey style of the late Xiao Yingpeng). Edededed 02:57, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

i actually was the one who added that. i actually practice this art, and i was told that monkey beats snake etc by the grandmaster that teaches me. if a grandmaster trained in a temple by a abbot in china doesn't know what he's talking about in regards to kung fu i'd love to know who does. and his son does snake, and also told me that...as he is a master himself so i have two very qualified sources. i just didn't really want to source a verbal account from a particular individual cuz no one knows who the hell they are. i source joe smoe isn't very convincing. --147.26.232.92 23:35, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

 * You're right, it's not very convincing. Every "master", ect. says their art is the best or even "undefeatable", etc. but it doesn't mean it is true. Makes great 1970s Kung-fu movie plots though. --Mista-X 01:33, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * not master GRANDmaster the highest rank attainable outside of a temple. and he's a grandmaster of SEVERAL styles not one. dragon, monkey, drunken, praying mantis, choy li fut, snake, crane, tiger, eagle claw, leopard and a whole lot more. more so the MASTER that told me that was snake not monkey, he was technically pointing out faults in his style not strengths...read stuff before you say stuff.--147.26.232.92 03:11, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

 * You still have no source to cite. Put up or shut up. --Mista-X 20:32, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

 * i already told u my sources but i'll get specific anyway. sources: the abbot Wang Fu Yein (deceased: former abbot of a buddhist temple in china that focuses on shaolin kung fu), Grandmaster Ricky E. Anderson youngest person ever certified by the people's republic of china and the shaolin temple as a grandmaster. (well over 32 years of experience in monkey, snake, and eagle claw.) Master Ronnie anderson (20+ years doing snake).--147.26.232.92 23:03, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Is everyone just supposed to take your word for it? Or will you actually cite, quote, or mention and publication? Are any of these people reputable? Can you prove any of it? Again, please show us references so it isn't just hearsay. --Mista-X 01:41, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * dude that's exactly why i DIDN'T cite it already. how am i supposed to prove it? i've given you my source, but if there is a way to post a citation from expert opinion that doesn't have a publication i'd love to know what it is. see i already told you this in my first fricking comment. its not a citable source, but it is a souce none the less there isn't anything i can do about that. it doesn't make anything i said wrong, or ungrounded. just because the source is unciteable doesn't mean it has to be dismissed. so unless someone writes a book on it they don't know what they're talking about? however, i flipped through an unnamed book is a good enough source? and let me ask you this, if a grandmaster came in and edited something does he need a source? he techinically is a source himself, does he cite himself? just because i can't point u to a publication doesn't make my source any less valid. and if abbots grandmasters and masters aren't reputable...who the hell is a reputable source regarding kung fu?--147.26.232.92 01:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * If you can't prove it then you must write it in a way which shows that it is myth/unproveable. Anyone who knows anything about REAL FIGHTING knows this is all bull; artistically very beautiful but nothing to do with actual fights. Anyone who thinks otherwise took those old school kung-fu flicks too seriously or watched too mcuh Dragonball cartoons. And yes, you can cite yourself, but obviously what your citing should be published in some way that it's verifiable (for example a web page)... --Mista-X 16:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * really, do u do monkey kung fu? i do. who out of the two of us is more qualified to talk about its applications? for someone so worried about valid sources u should remember you aren't one. u really should note the part in question starts "it is said..." that does indicate it is not fact. it doesn't say it for sure, it is just SAID that monkey beats snake etc. and its not gonna let me beat a master of snake either, it's a minor advantage at best. u make it sound like i think i could take a snake master just cuz i know monkey, and no one is saying that. if two people are equally skilled the style will decide the winner, if one guy is totally underskilled i don't care what he does he's gonna get a whoopin.--71.145.182.13 04:27, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

 * btw this same theory is presented in the Leopard Kung Fu article in more depth, even mentioning the elements associated with the styles. "The proof behind this element/animal system is the contention that one animal "beats" another, and their appropriate corresponding elements also "overpower" one another. For instance, Tiger (Fire) is killed by Snake (Water). And Tiger (Fire) beats Leopard (Metal). Water puts out fire, whereas fire "melts" metal. This can be further explained by the Snake's waterlike movement (Kung Fu masters may tell their students to "imagine a river" during movement), and the Tiger's ferocious overwhelming of the calculating, fast Leopard with constant linear strikes. This Shaolin system teaches one to identify an attacker's natural or learned animal, and use its antipode to defeat it effectively." --147.26.232.92 02:35, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * that's all very nice but I'm concerned with this article at the moment. Either cite the source or leave it alone. --Mista-X 16:55, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * oh ok so whether or not the noob article mentions it matters, but the leopard article mentioning the samething here doesn't matter? the whole point is that this isn't a left field theory and has backing behind it. the other article is an example of this as it references the same thing, clearly i'm not just making it up as others seem to think the same thing. --71.145.182.13 04:27, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

The sentence referring to Monkey vs. Snake et al, has been waiting for a source since August to no avail. I did some digging around and couldn't find any reference to this anywhere. I agree, that it is mentioned in the Leopard Kung Fu stub, but that article is highly disputed and also cites no sources. I'm removing the line, I think it's best until someone finds something more concrete.MArcane 05:30, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

I believe you guys need to speak to Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung. Mista-X your info says you are in Canada, I wish there was a way to give you the Grandmaster's telephone number without exposing it to the world. I too have been told that Monkey boxing beats ALL other styles but do I really believe it? Well I don't know. I have also been told that the Eagle is the best style to fight the Monkey, again I don't know if its true so I just accept them all as legends. What I do know is that in the Monkey variation of the Bak Sil Lum Eagle claw system, the ultimate Monkey Form is called Monkey God Of War. Incidentally the head of my son's kwoon was a personal student of Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung. - Debon 12:00, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * As interesting as I'm sure it would be to meet or talk to a grandmaster of the art, it wouldn't really help with the article. Unfortunately, we can't source original research on Wikipedia. Now, if GM Chan were to write a book, we could readily source from that. It's kind of a shame, because so much about the martial arts in general is unrecorded verbal history. Still, I understand the reasons for the rule as far as an encyclopedia goes.MArcane 06:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

 * MArcane, I sense what I believe to be disdain and/or sarcasm in your comments (if I am wrong I apologize) however this is about increasing knowledge and further, there are many books on Tai Shing Pek Kwar, the history of Tai Shing Pek Kwar and there is one in particular called Essence Of The Monkey and there is also an excellent movie called Monkey Boxer Kau Sze but these are only available from the Tai Shing Pek Kwar International Kung Fu Federation and they are very secretive. This I believe to be one of the mystiques about Monkey Boxing, you are right MArcane it is really a shame because there is so much knowledge that is at risk of passing away with the elders of this technique although I believe they may have documented everything. For instance, GM Chan Sau Chung was a personal student of Sigung Kan Tak Hoi who was himself taught by the founder Kau Sze so the lineage is pure and provable. GM Chan Sau Chung is one of the only few who were authorized by Sigung Kan Tak Hoi to open a school and teach Tai Shing Pek Kwar. I am not trying to suggest that the rules for the encyclopedia are irrelevant, but quoting from a book written by someone who may be considered an authority in kung fu generally but who cannot be traced directly to Tai Shing Pek Kwar is in all fairness and with all the love and respect in the world imho lacking in credibility. I am still not sure why you believe speaking with GM Chan Sau Chung wouldn't help the article. I am assuming we are operating on the honor system here; if primarily you or Mista-X as guardians of this article, were to speak to GM Chan Sau Chung and state that you did and then quote from your conversation with him, would that not be acceptable? His english is not very good and he is very advanced in age so you would probably have to speak with his son Master Chan Kai Leung.

 * By the way MArcane, I don't believe you understand the gravity of the situation, GM Chan Sau Chung is not simply a grandmaster of the art, he is the only surviving student of Sigung Kan Tak Hoi. Sigung Kan Tak Hoi was the Great Grandmaster of Tai Shing Pek Kwar and was a direct student of Kau Sze the founder. GM Chan Sau Chung is the current defacto head of the Tai Shing Pek Kwar technique. Further he is one of the very few who have mastered all five techniques and even more significantly he was personally selected by Sigung Kan Tak Hoi himself, to teach Tai Shing Pek Kwar which he started doing at the age of 22yrs in 1954 in Hong Kong. There is a lot of knowledge available, one just has to know where to look to find it. Here is a very interesting article in kungfu magazine http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=448 I trust it is OK to post the link here. The Tai Shing Pek Kwar website is currently being re-constructed and so is unfortunately unreachable at this time. -- Debon 12:00, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Apology accepted. You definitely misread my tone, since I neither meant to be disdainful or sarcastic. As for the the rules about sources in Wikipedia, you are wasting your time arguing with me. I am nothing more than another member making edits to articles that interest me. If you want Wikipedia to change their rules, you'll have to take that up with the powers that be. Regarding being the "guardian" of this page, thanks for the compliment, but I'm really just someone with an interest in the subject that took an active role in editing an otherwise neglected page. In fact, I can think of no one less qualified than myself to conduct research on this art, as I am neither a practitioner nor acquainted with any. I do feel that I have some grasp of how to arrange an article in a meaningful and useful way, which is why I like to play around on Wikipedia, a site that I believe to be meaningful. Again, per the administrators of this site, Wikipedia is not the place for original research, so I am not going to conduct interviews for the purpose of writing this article. You are obviously passionate about the subject, so why not put that passion to use constructively in an article like this, instead of lecturing other editors about how they should write. If there is pertinent information in any of the sources you mentioned (kung fu magazine included) add it and cite the reference. MArcane 05:38, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * PS- Please sign your posts to the talk pages by typing ~ at the end. Again, this is wikipedia policy, so not trying to be a pain here.MArcane 05:38, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Your Rock Style beats my Scissors Style and day, but Paper Style boxers better watch out.

 * MArcane it looks as though it is now your turn to do the misreading (*smile*), it was never my intention to argue with you or lecture you or anyone else for that matter, anyway no harm done, but let us take a look at what has transpired in terms of increasing knowledge; just from our discussion so far, would you agree that a lot of new information has emerged? New in the sense that these pieces of information are not present in the main article. But as is also wikipedia policy, because I say these things do not make them factual and once again am not arguing with the rules of the wiki, I am just having a very good discussion with you and am enjoying it too although toward the end of your response you seem to be a little offended (I may have misread you once again there bro). You are correct though, I am very passionate about Monkey Boxing and I believe a discussion is a wonderful thing as it allows for an exchange of ideas and inclusion of new information so this has imho been very constructive use of that passion, at least from the standpoint of increasing knowledge. I am thinking about doing articles on Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung, Sigung Kan Tak Hoi and Kau Sze along with some of other elders whose names are at risk of becoming lost in future years and so am attempting to get the permission from the folks at Tai Shing Pek Kwar International Kung Fu Federation and am also thinking of putting up the official Tai Shing Pak Kwar Family Tree. I am also severely limited by a lack of available time. As I said before, I have enjoyed our exchange and I did not in any way intend to offend you. So CHEERS dude, you are a great sport!!! Do have a good day MArcane!!! -- Debon 11:52, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Those sound like great ideas for articles! I'm glad to hear you're considering diving in and doing some editing. Sorry for misreading your post, but (as is often the case with posts and emails and so on) it's easy to attribute emotions to words that might not actually be there. I wasn't so much offended, as feeling a bit defensive. Heh heh. Anyway, glad to see you've set up an account and are looking at improving this page and those related to it! Welcome aboard, and I'm game for discussion anytime.MArcane 04:04, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

Cluv 33 (talk) 08:07, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

This section has been updated by High Priest, Ricky E. Anderson (Praying Mantis Kung Fu), Grand Master Joseph Robinson (Dragon Kung Fu) and Corey M. Thomas (Webmaster) in a combined effort to establish accuracies and discredit the former. Our sources are available for contact and scrutiny at your convenience.

The entire Shaolin Kung Fu system is comprised of originally 435 books or styles/systems. There is no man on the planet who knows all 435 systems. During temple burings books where lost and now 356 remain, split between northern and southern Kung Fu styles, both Internal and External; Tai Chi(or Ji), Chin Na, Quaw Jau, Sau Sho and Wu Shu.

Abbot Wang Fu Yin (alive: 103 Years of age, Abbot of a Shaolin Buddhist temple in china) http://skf63.com/gallery/pics.html

High Priest, Ricky E. Anderson (alive: 46 years of age, Unites States) http://www.skf63.com Anderson is the youngest person ever certified by the people's republic of china and the Shaolin temple as a grandmaster and was elevated to High Priest in 2006. High Priest Anderson has well over 43 years of experience in monkey, snake, dragon, tiger, crane, eagle claw, and the list goes on to include 210 of the 356 remaining books/systems. His teacher is the Abbot Wang Fu Yin.

Grand Master Joseph L. Robinson (alive: 39 years of age), concentrated 26+ years in Dragon, located in the United States, http://www.grandmasterrobinson.com. Grand Master Robinson was elevated from Master to Grand Master in 2006 as certified by the Abbot Wang Fu Yein and High Priest Ricky E. Anderson and the United States and People’s Republic of China Federation of Certified Masters and Instructors. His teachers, High Priest Ricky E. Anderson.

Grand Master Ronnie Anderson (26+ years doing snake) was elevated in 2006 from Master to Grand Master. His teacher, Ricky E. Anderson.

Cluv 33 (talk) 08:07, 2 December 2009 (UTC)

Drunken Monkey
I have a few problems with the discription of "Drunken Monkey" and I am planning to create it's own article after a bit of research.

But first...

 * "Drunken Monkey Kung Fu style is similar to Drunken Boxing."

Other than the fact that it imitates drunkeness, how are the styles similiar? My understanding is that this style imitates a "Drunken Monkey" and it's origins are based on a fairy tale about a Monkey King who drank some Empresses' wine without permission, then ruined her palace in a drunken brawl with her guards and warriors... Well Zui Quan (Drunken Fist) is supposed to be based on a human fighter mimicking drunkness and is also based on learning to be soft/loose...

 * I believe the fairy tale to which you refer is called "Journey To The West" and information on it can be found here http://www.vbtutor.net/Xiyouji/journeytothewest.htm however, be advised that there may be variations of this information found elsewhere on The Internet or from other sources. After one reads a book on this or any other topic, one must be very careful how one presents the information to others e.g. the Leung Ting book on the Drunken Monkey technique. I have read that book cover to cover myself and it shows I believe two or so forms (one single man and one or two two-man forms), but the Drunken Monkey techniques is a complete system with many more forms. In fact the Tai Shing Pek Kwar curriculum consists of greater than one hundred twenty six forms. Anyway I do not believe Dr. Leung Ting meant to give the impression that his book covers ALL Drunken Monkey forms. One must be aware also, that simply quoting that book does not make ones statements factual. After all that is just a regurgitation of Dr Leung Ting's writings. The big question is, "What is Dr Leung Ting's standing in the Monkey Boxing community?" and "Can he be traced to Tai Shing Pek Kwar and if so who was his teacher and his teacher's teacher etc?" It is my humble opinion that if one is really after the facts, one needs to speak to a living legend on the particular technique such as Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung who now resides in Vancouver, Canada. He is The Real Monkey King and the final authority on ALL aspects of Monkey Boxing. I am sure some will say that this is a POV, it may very well be, however, it is shared by all who practice this technique. His son Master Chan Kai Leung who also lives in Vancouver, Canada is head of the Tai Shing Pek Kwar International Kung Fu Federation and is also considered an authority (although a much lesser one than his famed father) on this technique. If we are really interested in building this topic in the wikipedia, we need to be actively seeking knowledge through communication with Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung. Such communication imho would give much greater credibility to the knowledge pool being built here. -- Debon 12:03, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

 * There is a guy who has started an organization and who now addresses himself as grandmaster and who claims to be the monkey king of a particular country but fortunately not many people in the kung fu world or even in the particular country, take him very seriously. He has even gone as far as inserting himself, his teachers and his top students into his organization's version of the Tai Shing Pek Kwar family tree but don't be fooled by this. On their website there is a picture of a hung gar grandmaster who they say was a protege of Sigung Kan Tak Hoi and who they claim helped him with the Hong Kong school. The fact is, it was a very young Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung then in his late teens to very early twenties who had worked alongside Sigung Kan Tak Hoi at the school in Hong Kong and what is even more startling is that the people at Tai Shing Pek Kwar International Kung Fu Federation have never heard of this hung gar guy and his name does not appear anywhere on the official TSPK Family Tree or on any of their historical records. When one looks at this organization's version of the TSPK Family Tree, one sees that they had no option but to include Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung but what they have tried to do as well, is to include themselves as part of the family tree, therein lies the problem. The last three persons who have mastered all five TSPK techniques are Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung, Master Chan Kai Leung and Master Roger Smart who happens to be the only non-oriental on the Official TSPK Family Tree. The official record-keepers at TSPK International Kung Fu Federation have maintained excellent records going all the way back to the days of Kau Sze the founder. -- Debon 12:03, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

 * "Drunken monkey uses a lot of joint locking,"

I flipped through a book on this style, and didn't show ANY joint locks in the pictures. There may well be "some", but I think we need a reference to say "a lot".
 * lmao i love how a book someone "flipped through" is a valid source. i don't think i added this stuff but the drunken monkey article says itself "There is also many unusual grappling and blocking techniques". guess what grappling consists of? joint manipulations, projections (throws), and joint locks (holds). and i highly doubt one books ability to contain all the techniques in a style. --147.26.232.92 04:35, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

Actually, I read the entire book before writing Drunken Monkey and did some internet research. Labeled the article a stubbed based on what I wrote. Even writing the article half ass I did a better job then you, so you really shouldn't talk. Also, grappling isn't necessarily any of the things you said. "Grappling refers to the gripping, handling and controlling of an opponent without the use of striking, typically through the application of various grappling holds and counters to various hold attempts". You really should read stuff before you say stuff! --Mista-X 20:37, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

"application of various grappling holds and counters to various hold attempts". uh thanks for proving my point for me. as for writing better than me...i didn't write this article. the only articles i've actually created were for characters in the anime bleach cuz i was bored. and i don't care how many books you've read, reading a book will never overwrite actually DOING the style. Gripping = holds/locks, handling and controlling = projections(throws) and Joint manipulations. using different terms same thing. i linked the grappling page for a reason.--147.26.232.92 00:00, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * OK buddy, obviously you are a 12 year old kid or something. Either cite the source or shut up. I cited my source, author (Leung Ting), date of publication and ISBN. He is an INTERNATIONALLY recognized source on Kung-Fu. Where's yours? --Mista-X 16:59, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * i'm probably older than u actually, but thats irrelevant. i already cited a source its at the bottom of this segment. i also cite the article YOU wrote based on leung ting, and the grappling article. and i ask you again if someone who has studied the art for over 30 years isn't qualfied who is? being in the martial arts hall of fame doesn't make u a recognized source? --71.145.182.13 04:12, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

 * "...Drunken Monkey is one of the most fierce fighting styles around,and very hard to defeat."

Too POV. a lot of martial artists say that about their style, including the ones that never did anything but watch Jet Li movies and then made up a fake name for their style, say they killed a bunch of communists with AK47 in a dark jungle unarmed, then sell DVDs on the net, etc. etc.

 * "It is the most advanced monkey form, and the most difficult to learn."

Not disputing this, but a source would be nice...

--Mista-X 04:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

found a source for all these "problems" http://www.shaolin-society.co.uk/Animal_Styles/The_Monkey/the_monkey.php --147.26.232.92 02:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Origin of Drunken Fist?
Also, the article states: "Drunken style kung fu actually evolved out of the drunken monkey variation." I checked the Drunken Fist Origins and there is five mythological stories of the origin mentioned, but none of them mention Monkey Style as a possible one... --Mista-X 05:06, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

 * eh there are like 50 billion origin stories...there are actually two for monkey that i know of. one has to do with some guy in prison watching monkeys and the other says it was created by the same dude who invented praying mantis kung fu. most of the styles have questionable back stories at best so its not surprising, and not really provable or disprovable. --147.26.232.92 23:42, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

 * The fact that "there are like 50 billion origin stories" should give you a clue about the unreliability of it. I have sited my source in Drunken Monkey (Leung Ting) at least. If you have at least one source that say's Drunken Fist came out of Drunken Monkey (and you even go as far to say that all "Drunken" variations did), then please, by all means cite your source. --Mista-X 01:38, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * ur confused, i'm not even saying thats any of them is right. i'm just saying it's pretty hard to prove where the stuff came from. for christ sake shaolin kung fu is over 1500 years old, reliable stories from that far back are hard to come by is all i'm saying. more so u said urself 5 MYTHOLOGICAL backstories. most of em are just that, myth. i'm providing one theory of possible legitamate evolutions i've heard, as opposed to over-romantized stories. for example the concept of drunken monkey may have come from a book (like myth says) but i doubt the techniques were pulled out of thin air, the monks of shaolin didn't just suddenly have an ephiphany and come up with all the moves in a style in 5 min. they obviously came from somewhere, and i doubt the techniques were included in that story.--147.26.232.92 03:11, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

 * I'm not a Christian so I don't care about the sake of Christ; but archiological evidence suggests many of the Shaolin styles may have Indian origins, and the animal styles are similiar. Whatever your myth is, back it up with a source. This is not very complex, simply cite what you write. If you can't do so then your contribution is not worth much. --Mista-X 20:41, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

 * so the animal styles are simliar but me suggesting that one led to another is completely ridiculous? and your the one self-admitatedly spreading myth as true origins. do u even think before u write or do u just drift in and out. i have various sources not one in particular, and i've heard at least 20 different evolutions of what came out of what...and thats just for monkey. so you can add 5 potential stories, but i can't add one alternative that isn't an over-romantized myth? you want a source...same guys as above and the various masters i've met through the years.--147.26.232.92 23:02, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

 * 147.26.232.92, what is your problem? Do you not understand how wikipedia works? Either cite the source IN THE ARTICLE, a source that people CAN ACTUALLY VERIFY, not HEARSAY, i.e. someone from an anonymous I.P. who say's they heard master such and such say this or that is not reputable. Understand? --Mista-X 16:48, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * what is your problem? i've already told you all this stuff...i've pointed out at least twice already that i didn't cite it in the first place because it isn't a citeable source. the only reason i even brought it up in the first place is cuz someone asked where it came from. more so hearsay is a legal issue dealing with evidence being usable in court, it has nothing to do with citablity of a source. more so eyewitness accounts can be used as evidence, interviews can be used as evidence, even conversations are evidence...none of which are verifiable or citable, but no less valid. and i'm not anonymous i'm just too lazy to log in i have a user name Grimjaw. --71.145.182.13 04:20, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

More inaccuracies?
Whoever wrote this article didn't do much fact finding.

 * Liu Kang: Other than the fact that the article mentions Liu Kang studied "animal styles", there is no mention of Monkey Style and it notes his primary as Jun Fan

I believe I have heard Liu Kang trained in many forms of nothren Chinese martial arts, and this probably includes monkey, but as far as Mortal Kombat goes, Noob Saibot is the only one that actually applied the style in game, and loosly at that.

 * "Drunken Monkey" (the Movie): Do we have any reason to believe that this movie even exists? It is quit possible, but there is no mention of who starred in it, or anything. For all we know who ever wrote that simply made that up.

oops, I wrote the above but forgot to sign --Mista-X 05:24, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

 * My guess is that the movie is referring to this: Chui ma lau. --maru  (talk)  contribs 22:31, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I believe you are right Marudubshinki. Here is a link to the actual movie page in this wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drunken_Monkey_%282002_film%29 —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 208.131.187.127 (talk) 17:20, 20 February 2007 (UTC).

Noob Saibot
If anyone has a source or reference to show that this Mortal Combat character had anything to do with Monkey Kung-fu, please cite it.
 * u've clearly never played deception, as i do monkey i'm the first to point out little to nothing he actually does in deception is an actual move in monkey kung fu, but they call it monkey. --147.26.232.92 23:37, 23 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I asked you for a source, that's all. I checked the wiki article and their is no mention of this. Just because a move or another might appear like monkey to some guy from IP 147.26.232.92 doesn't mean it is and certainly isn't worth putting it as fact in an encylopedia. --Mista-X 01:36, 24 August 2006 (UTC)
 * yet again ur confused. i said the moves DIDN'T look like monkey. the reason it is listed as monkey in this article and it was in the noob article when i looked WAAAAAAYYYY back, is because the game lists the styles in the corner, and most charcters have 2. as noob and smoke are a team fighters each fighter has one style. when u hit the switch style button it switches characters. so when noob is out in the corner where the style is listed it says "monkey". you want a source how bout the game itself, play it for 2 seconds and you'll see monkey in the corner when u fight as or against noob.--147.26.232.92 03:15, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

btw it IS in noobs wikipedia article on the side under his picture it lists the 3 styles he has been given in the games over the years. u'll notice under MKD (mortal kombat deception) the style monkey. yet again u need to read things, or at least pay closer attention before u claim someone's claim is ungrounded.--147.26.232.92 03:23, 24 August 2006 (UTC)

 * OK, you appear to be correct about this one. I did actually read the whole article on Noob Saibot but must have not read the profile on the right-hand side for some reason. --Mista-X 17:02, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

 * for someone so concerned about validity and sources u really can't talk. you never even played the game yet you are qualified to argue about an aspect of it? see i've never played MK: shaolin monks, so if you told me somethin like noob does drunken in it...i'd just take your word for it cuz i'm not qualified to argue. see i was always told if you don't know what ur talking about, shut up. i love how throughout our arguments you are a valid source yourself, despite not playing the game or doing the art in question, yet i am not when i've done both. u said ur not christian...why should i believe that, can u prove it...no. i just take ur fricking word for it cuz i assume u have better things to do than pretend to be an atheist. u should have a little more faith in humanity. --71.145.182.13 04:36, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

 * I actually could prove I'm not a christian, as I have written letters about ahteism and such that are available online. That's besides the point. No, I don't do Kung-Fu but I do martial arts and study them. I am interested this article because I was studying the style out of interest, I'm simply trying to help keep this article accurate, well you want to make it POV. I'll I have asked of you is to cite something and you won't do it. Names, places, something... but no. Well, fine... go ahead and mess the article up. Why should anyone ever take wiki seriously, right? --Mista-X 18:50, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Good grief, to respond to the comment above, play the games for starters, that way you have a valid arguement because right now you're digging yourself a hole of innacuracy and stupidity, to answer about Noob saibot, It seems to me he seems to perform genuine monkey, but I do agree, most in game moves don't appear to be monkey, but, watch his ending sequence in Mortal KombatArmageddon. You want to keep the article accurate? That's all fine and good, but if you don't understand what you're talking about and more than 5 people seem to agree on something you have little knowledge about, it's most likely true. Don't search too hard for problems, because eventually you'll have to make one up to sound like the hero you wanted to be, saving the article from propaganda I know, I like praise for fixing stuff too, but I do it when it's needed, and that's what gives me good reputations across the net. --Severen 15:50, 12 March 2007 (UTC)

I have still yet to see any source that he does in fact do monkey. Right now it is all based on unsourced assertions. I went to the article on noob, and asked for the source, i.e. does it say so in the game, manual, or what? As of now I recived no answer. I don't really care anymore, however. The point I was making originally is that it should be sourced. It doesn't matter if 5 people or 500 people say "it looks like monkey" if there is no source that says it is monkey. --Mista-X 16:21, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

Article Cleanup
This article had a great start but needed some cleanup and some sources citations.

 * I rearranged the layout a bit, adding the 'Origins' section for the historical info on this style. MArcane
 * Moved the info on the different monkey sub-groups to a 'Techniques' section.MArcane
 * Did some copy editing and rewording to remove weasel words and try to push a bit more towards NPOV.MArcane 05:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Cleaned up the movie section, adding english titles and ordering the films by release date.MArcane 05:33, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Added a section on Hou Quan, which is ostensibly the more ancient precursor to this style, and found a source regarding the link from Mantis footwork to Monkey styles.MArcane
 * Added both the 'Other Articles of Interest' and the 'External Links' section.MArcane 20:59, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Added some redirects.MArcane 21:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Added Martial Arts Info Box from Martial Arts Wikiproject page.MArcane 22:10, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * Removed profanity left by an editor - Debon 01:57, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

Photos
This page desperately needs some photos. Maybe if someone (ahem) knows a high-ranked practitioner, they could get a picture of him doing some meaningful stances or forms and release the image to the public domain for upload to wiki per their fair use policies. That would be helpful on two counts...we could show some pertinent pictures, and we could talk about a known expert. Just a thought.MArcane 05:44, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

 * (ahem) I could put up a picture of a very young Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung standing beside a seated Sigung Kan Tak Hoi - but I got it off The Net and being new to the wiki, am not sure about the Fair Use issues etc, so I will need some guidance - Debon 23:46, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

 * (ahem) I could also put up an image from the article in Kung Fu Magazine, in fact there are other images that I could use as well. - Debon 00:14, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I was hoping for some action shots, or something that gives the reader an idea of what the style looks like. I thought maybe you could take some shots yourself, if you have a camera, since those are easiest to use on wikipedia as far as rights are concerned. They are VERY strict about photo rights here, so not sure we'd be able to post something from Kung Fu magazine. It's the same reason we can't pull images from websites and such.MArcane 04:09, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I plan to visit Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung this summer along with my 13yr old son Kareem who also specializes in Monkey Boxing, I will take some pictures then and will certainly get a copy of the family tree at that time. Bear in mind also that great great grandmaster Kau Sze, Sigung Kan Tak Hoi, and the other elders have long since passed away and all that remain are very old pictures, some taken during the 1920s and 1930's and only available in books. Am not sure how the wiki feels about using such images, failing that we may have to stick to text and whatever images persons such as myself and others may be able to take. There are also some other issues that I need to finalize before I start editing and as you already know, Monkey Boxing is very dear to me, so I will keep very close to the main article. CHEERS!!! - Debon 11:16, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I think very old images are public domain, and thus not a problem. Here's the policy page on images Image use policy.MArcane 19:44, 23 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I have included a new section in the main articled called Additional Information in which I have tried to give an impression of what a monkey form looks like at a tournament. I have also included two images of my son as personal/own work to show what it looks like. Here hoping I won't get flamed for doing so. - Debon 15:48, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Looks good. I moved that section higher in the article, since it seemed like it belonged before the trivia items like movie references and so forth. The External Links and See Also sections should really be at the end of the article. I also formatted the photo to imbed it in the article and give it a caption.MArcane 23:14, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for the help bro, by the way I also did an article on Grandmaster Chan Sau Chung, I see where it needs to be wikified, please I need your help as am not in touch with all the terms and their meanings as yet. I am currently working on an article on Kau Sze (the founder of Tai Shing Kung Fu - hope to have it ready by this upcoming weekend or very soon thereafter. - Debon 02:44, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Tai Shing Pek Kwar - move to new article?
Although both Tai Shing Pek Kwar and Houquan are "monkey kung fu," perhaps they should be separated, as they do not share the same histories, practitioners, or techniques. I personally would move Tai Shing Pek Kwar to another article - any opinions? Edededed 03:04, 24 August 2007 (UTC)
 * I would say that until there is so much information on both forms that the article becomes cumbersome, we should leave all info on this page. As you say, both are 'monkey kung fu.' Perhaps even when the information on the page becomes excessive, they should both be moved to separate style pages and linked from this page. Until we are spoiled for information, however, my vote would be to keep it simple. The article is short enough as it is, and is not technically inaccurate. MArcane 20:37, 9 September 2007 (UTC)
 * Well, what I am trying to say is that, in actuality, Houquan and Tai Shing Pek Kwar are unrelated styles that developed independently of each other (according to their histories); as such the only thing that relates them is that they both imitate monkeys (which in English some people generally call "monkey kung fu" - although to be exact, "Pek Kwar" = Pigua, so only the Tai Shing part is monkey). Sort of like convergent evolution, I guess?  Anyway, right now, the article is short, but Tai Shing Pek Kwar information is far greater than Houquan (or other monkey style) information, so the article does seem unbalanced.  Edededed 01:23, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Tone tag
Sentences that have things like "We note with respect..." are not appropriate for an encyclopedic article, so someone needs to clean that sort of thing up. Please leave the tag until this is done. --Mista-X 21:37, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

Thanx Mista-X, point well made, and taken in good spirits. --Debon 13:24, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Article Neutrality/Dispute
A tag has been added advising that the section on Tai Shing Pek Kwar was in dispute and that I should check the talk page to see what specifically was causing the dispute, however I am unable to find it here, Can the person who added the tag kindly provide some specifics about this dispute? - Debon 04:43, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * My bad for not putting something in here, edit summery covered it though, it was turning into an attack on the style not a description. Think you've fixed most of it though. --Nate1481(t/c) 13:13, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

So can the Neutrality/Dispute tag now be removed? Debon 22:09, 2 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes for my part article still needs cleaning up but not big POV flags. --Nate1481(t/c) 09:15, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Advertisement
As usual many thanks for your comments Mista-X. I have removed what I think was causing the problem and have taken the liberty of removing the tag. Can you kindly take a look again. CHEERS!!!

With this in mind can the Neutrality/Dispute tag be now removed? Debon 13:01, 2 October 2007 (UTC)

Only Five Monkeys?
So... anyway, I took a look at some Chinese pages (like this - seems to be an official HK Tai shing pek kwar site: http://www.hktspkalumni.com/start1.htm) and there are only five monkey forms (not six), i.e. stone monkey (石猴拳), crafty monkey (企猴拳), wooden monkey (木猴拳), lost monkey (迷猴拳), and drunken monkey (醉猴拳). There seems to be no "tall monkey" at all...

Also note that Tai Shing = Tai Sheng = Da Sheng, and so on... These are just different English (mis?)spellings of the same Chinese (大聖) (although sometimes Cantonese, sometimes Mandarin) and thus there should be some merging of these. In the same sense, pek kwar = pigua, and piguaquan is not exactly a monkey style (it just happens to be taught alongside Tai Shing), so perhaps the piguaquan blurb should be merged with the piguaquan article? For example, piguaquan is also often taught alongside bajiquan, but piguaquan history is not included in the latter article.

Finally, Tei Tong = ditangquan also, so that should be changed as well...

Edededed (talk) 05:09, 3 April 2009 (UTC)

Monkey fist history
The opening sentence of the history section reads: "Hou Quan (猴拳), literally Monkey Fist, can be traced back to the Han dynasty and is recorded in the Mi Hou Wu dance performed at the Emperor's court." The information is cited by an article taken from Kung Fu Magazine. Despite being a long time subscriber of the magazine and a member of its online forum, I don't think The cited article is a valid source as it doesn't provide any sources of its own. I would like to see some type of corroborating source written by, perhaps, a martial historian. All of the sources I have been able to find are just simple mirrors of the wikipedia page or the article (take this for example). If such a supporting statement can't be found in a week or so, I'm going to erase it from the page. This is an encyclopedia after all. We should be holding sources to a higher standard.

I would like to point out the first entry about "Shaolin Kungfu" on the Kung Fu Magazine article is incorrect. Historians have disproven Bodhidharma created Shaolin martial arts. This casts a shadow of doubt on the rest of the material presented on the article. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 00:39, 27 October 2010 (UTC)

 * As promised, I have removed the information mentioned above due to insufficient sourcing. If any editor disagrees with this move, please find a verifiable source and mention it here. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 17:11, 1 November 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Monkey Kung Fu


text:
Talk:Mizongyi

Talk
Of course! It's a great martial art, very fluid. I'm glad I took it on.

--

Wow. A few days ago I was trying to quickly find a reference about my jhong for a friend, and found a page elsewhere that looked pretty good. Upon reading it closely, I noticed that there were some strikingly familiar passages.... then I noticed that it said at the bottom of the page that it had been copied from the wikipedia article! I had no idea this page had turned out so good, and it was very strange to discover that parts of the page I was reading for information were actually written by me. J.S. Nelson 04:12, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art add yourself!
List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art

Huo Yuanjia
Can anyone find some citations about Huo Yuanjia and My Jhong Law Horn? Shawnc 21:21, 28 February 2006 (UTC)

Style distinction
I don't think this article makes a big enough point to distinguish between Mizong and Mizong Lohan. It is correct that the latter is a combination of two styles, but Mizong itself is an independent style with a few slight variations and mizong practitioners.

Huo Yuan Chia himself taught and practiced Mizong. Mizong Lohan on the other hand was a product of Ye Yu Ting's lineage.

The Description section describes only this mixture style and not the actual mizong style it originates from.

For what it's worth, I study Mizong Lohan and this is the first I've heard of the couplet and poem. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Litui (talk • contribs) 19:23, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

You are correctly pointed out that Mizong Luohan is from Ye Yu Ting's lineage in the South China Atheletic Association in Hong Kong. Ye was a native of Cangzhou and passed away in 1962. The son of one of his students is still teaching there. They also use Gong Li Quan as an introductory form, and this form was brought into Jin Wu Association by Zhao Lin-He in the 1910's.

Mizong Yi is a form within Mizong. Another more common name in Cangzhou and Tianjin for Mizong is Yan Qing Quan, which at least in the old tradition it is believed that Yan Qing was the founder of this school, Sun Tong simply renovated it. Yan Qing was famous for Xiang Pu (Chinese Sumo) and there are many throwing and swinging techniques in Mizong. Along with Liu He Meng, Yan Qing Meng were the most popular two martial art styles in mid-to-late Qing Dynasty in Tianjin-Fu, modern day Tianjin and Cangzhou regions.

Karolus 2007/05/04

Copyright problem removed
One or more portions of this article duplicated other source(s). The IP contributor who added this clearly pasted content seems to have added other copyrighted content as well, including incorporating at one point "Copyright © 1999 Lee's White Leopard Kung Fu School". The content at this page, for which I cannot locate archive, was also duplicated in one section, to be dispersed with other material later in the same day; this certainly lends the likelihood that the IP copied it from there or somewhere else that also had it one piece.

Accordingly, all content contributed by this IP has been removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 17:05, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Backwards infringement
Content from this article is included in. However, while content has been copied into this article from other sources (see immediately above, where archives confirm they had it first), this particular text seems to have evolved naturally on Wikipedia. Note specifically this edit, where some of that content was added. Other parts of it had already been present. The likelihood that the content was copied here from there in several different waves and organized to be the same structure is very unlikely. Notwithstanding the copyright notice at that external site, it seems as though the copyright to the content belongs to Wikipedia's contributors. --Moonriddengirl (talk) 17:20, 2 September 2010 (UTC)

Pai Chan
Someone please add a 'Mizongyi in popular media' section and list Pai Chan as a video game character from the Virtua Fighter series who uses Mizongyi.39.55.52.48 (talk) 13:51, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

External links modified (February 2018)
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 * Added tag to http://lawhornmantiskungfu.net/
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license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Mizongyi


text:
Ann Batten

Ann Batten (born 27 April 1944) is an Anglican priest, peace activist and a former New Zealand politician. She has been a member of various political parties and represented New Zealand First and Mauri Pacific in Parliament.

Biography
Batten is originally from South Auckland. In 1995, she headed an anti-nuclear protest to French Polynesia. Prior to entering Parliament, she studied Theology at St. Johns Theological College in Auckland and gained a Licentiate in Theology, Community Studies Certificate at Auckland University.

Community Organisations: Was a La Leche League NZ Leader, Mastectomy Association founding member, Trustee South Auckland HELP Foundation, Patron Bruce Mason Theatre, Teacher of personal development at the  Manukau Technical Institute Nursing school, an Alcoholism therapist at the Salvation Army Bridge Programme, She led the Women's Peace Flight to Tahiti against the French Nuclear Testing in the Pacific and was part of an International Peacekeeping delegation to draw attention to the plight of the East Timor people in 1995. Former Member of Management of Trees for Survival organisation, Spokesperson for former Manukau Asbestos Action Group,

Business: Member of the Forest Owners Association, A co-director with her husband of their land development company. Member of Institute of Directors, Former Mentor for "Business in the Community" now under the Auckland Chamber of Commerce.

Church involvement: Has been Priest-in-Charge at Otara Mission district, Albany/Greenhithe, Waiuku and Pukekohe. Currently holds a Bishop's Licence to Officiate and offices at St. John's Church, East Tamaki. She was a co-founder of the Anglican Diocesan Women's Resource Centre, a member of the Diocesan Social Justice Committee, Anti Racism trainer with the Anglican Church and Co-Convenor of the Auckland Anglican Bishop's Diocesan Treaty of Waitangi Education Committee. Convened a Working Group to provide input to the Anglican Church's Prayer Book Commission which rewrote the Church's prayerbook to reflect modern and inclusive language.

Club Memberships: Auckland Club and The Northern Club. Former Benefactor NBR Opera

Television: Ann financed, produced and presented the Television programme, Ann Batten's Auckland in Focus for $3 1/2$ years on Triangle Television (now Face TV).

Member of Parliament
Batten was a supporter of the Labour Party and unsuccessfully stood in the and  electorates in the  and  elections. She was then selected by the Labour Party to contest the electorate in the. She resigned from the Labour Party in March 1996 and joined New Zealand First, which gave her a high list ranking of 3rd place and let her contest the electorate. She came fifth in the electorate vote, but was one of 11 list candidates of her party who entered Parliament.

In 1998, when New Zealand First splintered, Batten was one of the eight MPs who stayed with the Coalition Government which Winston Peters left. She eventually joined with four other MPs to form the Mauri Pacific party. In the 1999 election, she was ranked fifth on Mauri Pacific's list, but the party failed to win any seats.

Since leaving Parliament, Batten has been involved in broadcasting.

title: Ann Batten


text: User talk:12.73.180.118

title: User talk:12.73.180.118


text:
User talk:Cygnusx

This is cygnusx's user page.

Nomination of Helen Smith (psychologist) for deletion
A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Helen Smith (psychologist) is suitable for inclusion in Wikipedia according to Wikipedia's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Articles for deletion/Helen Smith (psychologist) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article. David Gerard (talk) 20:01, 18 October 2021 (UTC)

title: User talk:Cygnusx


text:
User talk:Red ted

Welcome to Wikipedia. Your contributions are very welcome. Your contribution to Communist Party of Australia, however, fell outside the bounds of a neutral point of view and was removed. Please bear this in mind while making further contributions. Ambi 11:01, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Please read the above policy. I have no interest in defaming the CPA - just seeing Wikipedia with the most neutral article. As the author is an ALP member, and I'm even further to the left, accusing us of being conservative is laughable. Ambi 09:11, 26 Oct 2004 (UTC)

If you start with this crap again I will ask for the article to be protected again. Adam 12:42, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Stop reverting the ALP page! Xtra 09:26, 29 Oct 2004 (UTC)

ALP and White Australia
Greetings Ted, a number of us are concerned with your edits to the ALP page, mainly because we feel they violate Wikipedia policy. Specifically, we believe your favoured phrasing is not neutral. It should generally be enough to state the indisputed facts and leave the readers to draw conclusions for themselves. When a particular claim is disputed or a matter of opinion, the best practice is to note it as such and fairly attribute it to those who hold that view, while also giving space to opposing viewpoints. Secondly, Adam has introduced a phrasing into the article that has the general consensus support of the editors working on the article, which your alternative phrasing did not. It is general Wikipedia practice to edit along a policy of consensus as much as possible. Working against consensus, especially without any explanation or discussion, is usually considered vandalism and is frowned upon (particularly by the Australian Wikipedia community). By all means your are free to make your case on the talk page in an effort to change the consensus, but if you engage in one-sided behaviour such as reverts and unsupported edits there is no doubt you will be considered an anti-social editor.

Even though I have no doubt you are editing out of a concern for accuracy, you need to keep the wishes of other editors in mind and engage in dialogue with them. If you establish a relationship with other editors based on trust and good faith, they will be more receptive to your input in future.

Cheers, and happy editing, Lacrimosus 04:06, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Red ted


text:
Kakheti

Kakheti (კახეთი K’akheti; ) is a region (mkhare) formed in the 1990s in eastern Georgia from the historical province of Kakheti and the small, mountainous province of Tusheti. Telavi is its administrative center. The region comprises eight administrative districts: Telavi, Gurjaani, Qvareli, Sagarejo, Dedoplistsqaro, Signagi, Lagodekhi and Akhmeta.

Kakhetians speak the Kakhetian dialect of Georgian. Kakheti is one of the most significant wine producing regions of Georgia, home to a number of Georgian wines. The region is bordered to the west by the Georgian regions of Mtskheta-Mtianeti and Kvemo Kartli, to the north and east by the Russian Federation, and to the southeast by Azerbaijan. Popular tourist attractions in Kakheti include Tusheti, Gremi, Signagi, Kvetera, Bodbe, Lagodekhi Protected Areas and Alaverdi Monastery.

The Georgian David Gareja monastery complex is partially located in this province and is subject to a border dispute between Georgian and Azerbaijani authorities.

Geography
Beyond the modern-day administrative subdivision into the districts, Kakheti has traditionally been subdivided into four parts: Inner Kakheti (შიდა კახეთი, Shida Kakheti) to the east of Tsiv-Gombori mountain range, along the right bank of the Alazani River; Outer Kakheti (გარე კახეთი, Gare Kakheti) along the middle Iori River basin; Kiziq'i (ქიზიყი) between the Alazani and the Iori; Thither Area (გაღმა მხარი, Gaghma Mkhari) on the left bank of the Alazani. It also includes the medieval region of Hereti whose name has fallen into gradual oblivion since the 15th century.

Administrative divisions

The Kakheti region is divided into eight municipalities:

History
Kakheti was an independent principality from the end of the eighth century. It was incorporated into the united Georgian Kingdom at the beginning of the eleventh century, but for less than a decade. Only in the beginning of the twelfth century did Georgian King David the Builder (1089–1125) incorporate Kakheti into his Kingdom successfully.

Fifteenth–Sixteenth centuries: peace and prosperity, geopolitical situation
After the disintegration of the Georgian Kingdom, Kakheti became an independent Kingdom in the 1460s. In contrast with other Georgian political entities, long reign of Kakhetian Kings – Alexander I (1476-1511), Levan (1518-1574) and Alexander II (1574-1605), was marked by peace and prosperity, population grew steadily and at the turn of the seventeenth century reached 250,000–300,000. Gremi, capital city of the Kingdom and Zagemi became one of the most important urban centers of the Caucasus, attracting merchants and artisans from the neighbouring countries. New churches, castles and palaces were built and agriculture developed.

During the last years of the sixteenth century Kakhetian feudal army consisted of 10,000 cavalrymen, 3,000 infantry and 500 musketeers. Horsemen and foot soldiers were armed with bows, arrows, sabres, shields and spears, while musketeers had hand-guns. Furthermore, Alexander II made some futile efforts to introduce artillery from Muscovy.

During the sixteenth century international situation of the Georgian Kingdoms worsened dramatically, Transcaucasus became battleground of the powerful Muslim – Ottoman and Safavid – Empires, while Georgia was completely isolated from the Christian world. Additionally, greatly accelerated process of the Islamization of the North Caucasian peoples, including Dagestani mountaineers – direct neighbours of Kakheti. From 1555 the Kingdom was a vassal of the successive dynasties of Persia and to a much shorter period Ottoman Empire but enjoyed intermittent periods of greater independence, especially after 1747.

Formally under the vassalage of the Safavid dynasty, Levan of Kakheti was desirous to diminish foreign influence over Georgia, stealthily sending Kakhetian detachments to his son-in-law Simon I of Kartli against the Qizilbashes in the 1560s. Alexander II, the astute son of the previous King, continued Levan's policy, switching sides during the Ottoman–Safavid war several times, simultaneously strengthening his realm. In addition, Alexander's army had to confront north-eastern neighbour of the Kingdom – Shamkhalate, whose rulers tried to wreak havoc to the borderlands of Kakheti, kidnapping peasants and looting countryside. During the last quarter of the sixteenth century Kakhetian feudal army defeated Shamkhals’ undisciplined bands several times, killing hundreds of marauders.

Throughout the fifteenth–eighteenth centuries Georgian Kings and Princes, including those of Kakheti, constantly tried to establish diplomatic relations with the Popes and Christian Monarchs of the West – Holy Roman Empire, Spain, France, Prussia, Naples etc. calling them for aid against the Ottoman and Safavid incursions. However, nothing came from these attempts, geographic distance and ongoing wars made it impossible for the Europeans to support fellow Christian nation. As a result Georgian political entities had to fight against Muslim invaders virtually alone, while geographical isolation greatly limited opportunity for the Georgian elites to come into contact with the epochal changes taking place in Europe during the early modern period.

If the political and military assistance from the Western Europe proved to be unrealistic, in the north Grand Duchy of Muscovy, freed from the Mongol-Tatar yoke in 1480, seemed as a steadfastly growing Orthodox superpower. Alexander I of Kakheti became the first Georgian King to establish formal diplomatic contact with the Russians, dispatching two embassies to Grand Duke Ivan III of Muscovy in 1483 and 1491. In 1556, Astrakhan was conquered by Ivan the Terrible. After eleven years Terek-Town fort was built, Russians became nearly direct neighbours of Kakheti. In 1563, King Levan, grandson of Alexander I, appealed to the Muscovites to take his realm under their protection against the Ottomans, and Safavids. Tsar Ivan IV responded by sending a Russian detachment to Georgia, but Levan, pressured by Iran, had to turn these troops back after several years. King Alexander II also appealed for Russian support against foreign encroachments. In 1587, he negotiated The Book of Pledge, forming an alliance between Kakheti and the Russian Tsardom. David I of Kakheti (1601–1602), the rebellious son of Alexander II, during his short reign reaffirmed loyalty to the foreign policy of his predecessors. However, as the Times of Troubles began in Russia, Georgian political entities could not count on Muscovite assistance in their struggle for independence.

Seventeenth century: Abbas I's invasions, Teimuraz I, struggle for survival
In 1605, Constantine, younger son of Alexander II, who was raised at the Safavid court and converted to Islam, according to Shah's secret instruction assassinated his father and brother. The assassination of the royal family and usurpation of the crown by Constantine I infuriated the Georgians, who rose in a rebellion under the direction of Queen Ketevan later that year. On October 22, 1605, the Kakhetian army routed the Qizilbash forces of Constantine, who was killed on the battlefield. Caught by surprise, Abbas I grudgingly accepted the result of the 1605 Uprising and was forced to confirm sixteen years old Teimuraz I (1605–1648) – nemesis of the Safavids in the future – as a new King of Kakheti.

In 1612, the treaty of Nasuh Pasha was concluded, war with the Ottomans was temporarily over. From now on Shah Abbas I could attack eastern Georgia without hindrance – dethrone Christian Kings, establish Qizilbash khanates and deport or exterminate insubmissive Georgians from their homeland. In October 1613, Abbas I moved his army to Ganja. Next spring, he turned on Kakheti, demanding Teimuraz's sons as hostages. After taking counsel, Teimuraz I sent his mother Ketevan and his younger son, Alexander, to Iran. The Shah insisted; reluctantly, the Kakhetians sent the heir, Levan. Shah Abbas I then demanded Teimuraz's attendance. At this point war broke out. In 1614–1617, Abbas I led several campaigns against Kakheti and Kartli, massacred and deported hundreds of thousands ethnic Georgians to Iran, also despite stiff resistance and heavy defeat at Tsitsamuri forced Teimuraz I to Imereti. Shah Abbas I castrated both sons of the obdurate King and savagely tortured and burned to death his mother Queen Ketevan on September 13, 1624. Ketevan was canonized by the Georgian Orthodox Church and remains a symbolic figure in Georgian history. The story of her martyrdom was publicized in Europe, and several literary works were produced, including Andreas Gryphius’ Katharina von Georgien (1657). Moreover, Shah sought to populate Kakheti with the Turkoman tribes.

In 1624, Shah Abbas I turned his attention to Georgia again. Fearing a potential revolt, he dispatched some 35,000 men under Qarachaqay Khan and George Saakadze to subdue eastern Georgia. Although Saakadze had already served the Shah for twelve years, Abbas I didn't trust Georgian general completely and kept George's son, Paata, as a hostage. The Shah's anxiety was justified, since the Grand Mouravi had maintained covert communications with the Georgian forces and devise a plan to destroy the enemy army. Saakadze surreptitiously united Kartli and Kakheti behind him. He deviously ‘advised’ Qarachaqay Khan to split his forces into small groups and send them into Kakheti, while the major army camped near Martqopi.

On March 25, 1625, Saakadze summoned the war council where he personally slew Qarachaqay Khan and Yusuf Khan of Shirvan, while his son, Avtandil, and his Georgian escorts killed other Qizilbash commanders, including Imam Verdi Khan, Qarachaqay's son. Receiving a signal, Zurab Eristavi – another Georgian noble in Abbas's service – charged with his main forces, virtually annihilating leaderless Iranian troops. Annunciation Day (25 March) brought an extraordinary victory – Saakadze's and Duke Zurab's army massacred 27,000 out of 30,000 strong Turkoman-Persian army, took their arsenal and besieged Tbilisi's citadel before the puppet-king Simon II (1619–1630) could arrive. Within days, all Kartli and Kakheti was in Georgian hands.

After that, Saakadze's army invaded neighbouring provinces of the Safavid Empire – plundering Ganja and razing to the ground countryside to the Araxes river, thus avenging Shah Abbas’ invasions. Since the Georgian Uprising was sudden, Qizilbash tribes living in Karabakh were caught by surprise and had to flee further south hastily. Even though Georgians managed to capture thousands of Qizilbashes. As Saint Luarsab II of Kartli had already been martyred on the orders of the Shah in 1622, Teimuraz I was invited from Gonio to take the crowns of Kartli and Kakheti, thereby uniting both Kingdoms.

Abbas I, like Iran's and Turkey's chroniclers, was aghast at this debacle. His counterattack came in June 1625, when another Qizilbash army numbering 40,000, led by Isa Khan and Kaikhosro-Mirza, entered in Kartli and bivouacked on the Marabda Field, while the Georgians were higher up in the Kojori gorge. At the council of war, George Saakadze urged King Teimuraz I and other lords to remain in position, since descending into the valley would allow the Iranians to take advantage of their numerical superiority as well as firepower. However, powerful lords were concerned about the enemy ravaging their estates and threatened to defect unless the battle was given at once, thus the Grand Mouravi was overruled.

On July 1, 1625, Teimuraz I ordered the attack. The Iranians, armed with the latest weaponry, were well prepared for the assault, having dug trenches and deployed their troops in four lines, with the first kneeling, the second standing, the third on horseback, and the fourth on camels. Georgians, lacking firearms, suffered heavy casualties, but the impetus of their attack pierced the Qizilbash lines and spread confusion among the enemy. As the Iranians began to flee, a small group of Georgian troops pursued them while others began to plunder the Qizilbash camp. At this moment, the Iranian reinforcement numbering 20,000, led by Shahbandeh Khan of Azerbaijan, arrived charging the befuddled Georgians; in the resultant confusion, Prince Teimuraz Mukhranbatoni was killed but the rumor spread that King Teimuraz I had been killed, further demoralizing the Georgian host. The Georgians were defeated, losing about 10,000 killed and wounded, including 900 mountaineers from the Duchy of Aragvi. Among the dead were the nine brothers Kherkheulidze who defended the royal banner to the last, as well as the prominent nobles – Baadur Tsitsishvili and David Jandieri, nine Machabelis, seven Cholokashvilis, bishops of Rustavi and Kharchisho. Furthermore, Zurab Eristavi, the mighty Duke of Aragvi, was severely wounded. The Iranians suffered heavy losses as well, losing some 14,000 men, including Amir Guneh Khan of Erivan – deadly wounded by Manuchar III Jaqeli.

Following the battle, Saakadze again led the Georgian resistance and turned to guerrilla war, eliminating some 12,000 Qizilbashes in the Ksani Valley alone. Among the dead was Shahbandeh Khan of Azerbaijan, while Qazaq Khan Cherkes was captured. The Georgian Uprising of 1625 debunked Shah Abbas’ plans of destroying the Georgian states and setting up Qizilbash khanates in Kartli and Kakheti. Losing half of his army forced Shah Abbas I to let vassals rule eastern Georgia. He abandoned plans to cleanse it of Christians. George Saakadze (1942) is a Soviet Georgian historical drama film directed by Mikheil Chiaureli, depicting the heroic struggle of the Georgian nation against the Ottoman and Safavid hordes during the first quarter of the seventeenth century. The film is based on the six-volume novel, The Grand Mouravi (1937–1958), of Anna Antonovskaya.

Demographic, material, economic and cultural losses inflicted to the Kingdom of Kakheti by the hordes of the Qizilbashes, during the first quarter of the seventeenth century, were irreparable. Population of the Kingdom dwindled to 50,000–60,000, while Gremi and Zagemi were almost completely devastated and never fully recovered from the blow dealt by the invaders. Hundreds of villages, castles and churches were razed to the ground or badly damaged. Yet still, fierce resistance resulted in Georgians preserving statehood, most of their ethnic territories, as well as religion of the ancestors.

Dagestani peoples, encouraged by the Safavid officials, constantly attacked poorly defended countryside of Kakheti, and massively migrated to the easternmost region of the Kingdom – Eliseni, on the left bank of the Alazani river. Such a development led to a prolonged conflict between the Georgians and marauding Dagestani bands, greatly hampering revival of the Kakhetian Kingdom. Teimuraz I took an energetic measures against the Dagestanis’, suddenly attacked and decapitated the Sultan of Elisu, avenging for his participation in the Abbas I's Georgian campaigns. Besides that Teimuraz I tried to reestablish Christianity in the westernmost part of Dagestan, between the mountainous Dido people, traditionally closely related with Kakheti. Despite some initial successes, efforts made by the King proved to be futile.

During the next five years Teimuraz I got rid of his major rivals one by one – defeating Saakadze in the decisive battle of Bazaleti (1626) and assassinating Simon II and Zurab Eristavi, both in 1630. In 1632, he sheltered Daud Khan Undiladze, the Safavid governor of Ganja and Karabakh. After Abbas's death in 1629, once mighty clan of the Undiladze fell into disfavor and was destroyed on the order of the Shah Safi. In response, Daud Khan colluded with Teimuraz I, deceitfully leading detachment of the Qajars to the Iori river to be massacred by Kakhetians. Additionally, Teimuraz's army immediately invaded Arran and Karabakh several times, pillaging Ganja twice.

In 1633, Safavid counterattack came, the Qizilbash army led by Rostom Khan, uncle of the late Simon II, forced Teimuraz I to Imereti. Rostom (1633–1658) became the new King of Kartli. However, in the following year, to the disappointment of the Shah, Teimuraz I managed to reestablish himself in the Duchies of Aragvi and Ksani. Moreover, by 1638, Kakheti was under full control of the unruly King. During the 1630s Teimuraz I renewed his attempts to establish close ties with Russia. In 1639, he petitioned the Tsar of Russia for help and signed an oath of loyalty. However, no military aid had arrived.

In 1642, Teimuraz I conspired with Catholicos-Patriarch of eastern Georgia – Eudemus I and Kartlian nobles, to assassinate Rostom of Kartli, when the Muslim King was relaxing unguarded in the country. After that, Teimuraz I had to capture Tbilisi, expel Qizilbashes and unite eastern Georgian Kingdoms. However, a conspirator betrayed the plot. Rostom had the Catholicos-Patriarch arrested and imprisoned at the citadel of Tbilisi, where he was strangled. Eudemus I was canonized by the Georgian Orthodox Church as a holy hieromartyr. Six years later stubborn King of Kakheti was finally ousted from the power, losing the heir – Prince David, in the fateful battle of Magharo. Rostom, loyal vassal of the Shah, became the new ruler of Kakheti.

Taking shelter in Imereti, deposed Kakhetian King had his grandson Heraclius sent to the Russian court. In 1658, Teimuraz I travelled to Moscow, thus becoming the first Georgian King to visit Russia. In 1661, seventy-two years old King was captured during the Imeretian campaign of the King of Kartli, Vakhtang V (1658–1675). Teimuraz I was escorted as an honoured prisoner through Kartli to Shah Abbas II's court – the Shah urged him to accept Islam, offered him meat on a fast day and, when Teimuraz I declined, threw wine in his face and imprisoned him in Astrabad by the Caspian. Here, the most valiant Georgian King of the seventeenth century died in 1663. Teimuraz I was buried in the Alaverdi Monastery.

In 1656, Shah Abbas II made another attempt to settle Turkoman tribes in Kakheti. As a result, in 1659, Georgians revolted again, tens of thousands Turkomans were massacred, or forced to leave Kakheti. The location, Gatsqvetila (‘Exterminated’), where the most Qizilbashes were slaughtered, became infamous. By 1660, Shah acknowledged his failure in Kakheti. However, Safavids also threatened retaliation if rebel leaders did not surrender. Bidzina Cholokashvili, Shalva and Elizbar Eristavis of Ksani chose to sacrifice their lives to avoid further bloodshed and traveled to Isfahan, where they were executed. The events of the 1659 Uprising produced numerous oral traditions, especially in mountainous regions of eastern Georgia – Tusheti, Pshavi and Khevsureti, where poems dedicated to local heroes became popular. In the nineteenth century, Vazha-Pshavela used these traditions to create one of his finest poems, Bakhtrioni (1892), while his fellow writer Akaki Tsereteli produced another classic of Georgian literature, Bashi-Achuki (1896). Bashi-Achuki (1956) is also a Soviet Georgian historical drama film directed by Leo Esakia.

In 1664, Archil II (1664–1675), the eldest son of the Kartlian King Vakhtang V, was confirmed as a new King of Kakheti, nominally converting to Islam. Eleven years of the Archil's reign proved to be the most successful period of the calamitous seventeenth century. Archil II managed to start a long process of the revival of Kakheti. During his reign tens of deserted villages were repopulated, churches and monasteries repaired, castles rebuilt. In addition, Telavi – insignificant town during the fifteenth–seventeenth centuries – emerged as a new political and urban center of the Kingdom. Effectively exploiting military resources of his father's realm, Archil II organized several victorious expeditions in Dagestan, forcing mountaineers to submission. As a result, during the reign of Archil II inroads of the Dagestani bands decreased significantly. However, in 1675, he had to leave Kakheti, while Heraclius I was forced to stay in Isfahan for years, before his nominal conversion to Islam.

From 1676 to 1703 Kakheti was put under direct control of the Safavid appointed khans, whose authority being merely nominal. Iranian khans, unable to deal with the Georgian nobility backed by restive vassal of the Safavids George XI of Kartli (1676–1688; 1703–1709), tried to weaken aristocratic resistance by encouraging further incursions and migration of the Dagestanis’ into Kakhetian lands.

Eighteenth century: Heraclius II, political and cultural revival, twilight of the Kartli-Kakhetian Kingdom
In 1703, Kakhetian branch of the house of Bagrationi was restored, ruling as the vassals of the degenerating Safavid dynasty. During the next twenty years Heraclius I (1675–1676; 1703–1709) and David II (1709–1722) had to deal with the incessant Dagestani inroads. Despite some initial successes, Eliseni, the easternmost region of the Kingdom, was irrevocably lost in the 1710s, and free communities of the mountaineers, known as Djaro-Belokani, were established, while Georgian peasants living there had to leave or to Islamize gradually. They who chose the latter, became known as Ingiloys. In 1722, Constantine II (1722–1732), the illegitimate son of Heraclius I, became the new King of Kakheti. In the next year, Shah Tahmasp II ordered him to remove from power Vakhtang VI of Kartli, who adopted an anti-Safavid policy and made an alliance with Russia, which proved to be unsuccessful. Constantine II of Kakheti, reinforced by the Transcaucasian Tatars and Dagestanis, invaded Kartli and captured Tbilisi on May 4, 1723. Defeated King of Kartli and his supporters fled to Shida Kartli. The same year, the Ottoman army marched against the Constantine II, who was unable to stop it and offered to negotiate. The Ottomans entered Tbilisi on June 12, 1723, deceiving and imprisoning King of Kakheti during the negotiations. Fortunately for him, Constantine II managed to escape to his realm. After Vakhtang VI of Kartli immigrated to Russia in 1724, King of Kakheti became the sole leader of the anti-Ottoman resistance in eastern Georgia. Since Safavid Iran was on the verge of collapse, nominally Muslim Constantine II decided to return to the centuries-old pro-Russian foreign policy of his forefathers and offered to place Kartli and Kakheti under the Russian protection. However, Peter the Great, as well as his successors had no intention to start a new war against the Ottomans.

Meanwhile, Ottoman Empire skillfully used coreligionist Sunni Dagestanis against recalcitrant Georgian King, encouraging them to put constant pressure on Kakheti. On September 26, 1724, the Ottomans defeated Constantine's army in the fierce battle of Zedavela, while Dagestani bands devastated countryside. As a result, Constantine II had to find shelter in Pshavi. Yet still, in 1725, Georgians managed to drive marauding bands of the mountaineers out of Kakheti. By 1730, Kakhetian King was forced to recognize Ottoman supremacy and agreed to pay tribute. Additionally, Constantine II, indifferent to religion, converted from Shia to Sunni Islam. Seven years long resistance of Georgians resulted in invaders abandoning initial plan of annexation of Kakheti, as the Ottoman Porte had done in Samtskhe-Saatabago at the turn of the seventeenth century. On December 28, 1732, the Ottomans, never fully confident in Constantine's loyalty, murdered Kakhetian King in a treacherous way, inviting him to negotiate.

Constantine II was succeeded by Teimuraz II (1732–1744), the only Christian son of Heraclius I. With the accession of Teimuraz II to the throne forty years of Muslim Kings ruling period (1664–1675; 1703–1732) was over. In 1733, Teimuraz II reluctantly recognized suzerainty of the Sultan, only to attack his forces in the next year. The Turks, caught by unawares, were defeated in the bloody battle of Magharo.

A shrewd statesman, Teimuraz II tried to use Qizilbashes to his advantage and supported Tahmasp Qoli Khan in his campaigns to restore Iranian dominance in eastern Transcaucasus, in the 1730s. Initially, Tahmasp Qoli Khan already as Nader Shah, distrusted the stubborn King, who refused to convert to Islam even after detainment. However, the Shah, preoccupied by war on India, conceded that a Christian King would best keep Kartli and Kakheti peaceful and spare him from fighting on two fronts. First, he took with him to Iran Teimuraz II, his son Heraclius and his daughter Ketevan as hostages: Nader Shah married Ketevan to a relative, and enlisted Heraclius, who had military genius, for the Indian front. Meanwhile, in 1738, Teimuraz II, supported by the Qizilbashes, came back in his realm. He managed to suppress the anti-Iranian rebellion led by the influential Kartlian noble, Givi Amilakhvari, and consolidate his power in Kartli, thus de facto uniting eastern Georgian Kingdoms.

In 1744, Nader Shah confirmed Teimuraz II and his son Heraclius II (1744–1762) as the kings of Kartli and Kakheti and allowed them to perform Christian coronations. Father and son were crowned at the Svetitskhoveli Cathedral on October 1, 1745 – the first Christian coronation of the eastern Georgian kings in over a century.

In 1762, the Kakhetian Kingdom was united with the neighboring Georgian Kingdom of Kartli into the Kingdom of Kartli-Kakheti under King Heraclius II. Following the Treaty of Georgievsk and the sack of Tbilisi by Agha Mohammad Khan, in 1801 the Kingdom of Kartli-Kakheti was annexed to the Russian Empire. Russian suzerainty over Kakheti and the rest of Georgia was recognized by Qajar Iran in the 1813 Treaty of Gulistan.

1801–1917: Kakheti within the Russian Empire, uprisings, modernization, Georgian national awakening
Loss of independence and establishment of the Imperial administration led to an imminent uprisings. In 1802, Kakhetian nobles revolted, insurgents planned to restore kartli-Kakhetian Kingdom. However, Russians quickly responded and crushed the rebellion. In 1810–1811, Kakheti suffered from poor harvests and plague, which led to food shortages and high prices. Despite the hardship, Russian officials forced the peasantry to sell their remaining produce to the state at a low price. As the Russian troops began requisitioning supplies, a peasant uprising flared up in the village of Akhmeta on January 31, 1812. The insurgents defeated Russians in the hard-fought battle of Bodbiskhevi, killing 2 officers and 212 soldiers, captured and slaughtered the entire Russian garrison of Signagi and later seized Telavi, Anaga, Dusheti, and Pasanauri. After some hesitations the rebels were supported by the local nobility and clergy. They proclaimed a prince Grigol Bagrationi, great-grandson of Heraclius II and grandson of George XII as the King of Kartli-Kakheti. The revolt soon spread to Kartli, and the Russian forces lost more than 1,000 men in clashes with the insurgents. The rebellion continued throughout 1812 until the superior Imperial army, led by governors of Caucasus – Italian-born Marquis de Paulucci and Nikolay Rtishchev finally defeated it and pacified the region by early 1813.

In 1918–1921 Kakheti was part of the independent Democratic Republic of Georgia, in 1922–1936 part of the Transcaucasian SFSR and in 1936–1991 part of the Georgian SSR. Since the Georgian independence in 1991, Kakheti has been a region of the republic of Georgia.

Winemaking in Kakheti
The Kakheti Wine Region is located in the eastern part of Georgia and comprises two river basins, Iori and Alazani. These rivers have a significant influence on the character of Kakhetian wines. Kakheti is bordered on the west by another very important wine region of Georgia - Kartli. Together with the location, the climatic conditions of the region play an essential role in the formation of Kakheti wines. Kakheti vineyards are cultivated at an altitude of 250–800 meters above sea level. We can find both humid subtropicals as well as continental climates in the region. Kakheti terroir provides ideal conditions for both local varieties and international wine varieties as well. When talking about the Kakheti wine region, the first thing that comes to mind is Rkatsiteli and Saperavi grapes. These two wine varieties have become the face of the region and Georgia. With the increase in the awareness of Georgian wine, the interest in these varieties is growing, so do not be surprised if you encounter these Kakhetian wine varieties in different wine regions in the world.

Travel information
The travel infrastructure in Kakheti is fast developing, since it is the most visited region of Georgia. One can choose to stay in a guest house, in a small and comfortable hotel, or a beautiful boutique-style hotel while traveling in this region. Telavi and Signagi are the most visited towns. Signagi was renovated three years ago. Until recently there were only some family hotels (simple rooms in a family-owned house with a shared bathroom), but now Signagi features several hotels.

title: Kakheti


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Talk:Northern Praying Mantis

Wikipedia:List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art add yourself!
List_of_Wikipedians_by_martial_art

Gathering of the 18 Masters: Historical or Legendary?

 * "Shaolin records document that Wang Lang was one of the 18 masters gathered by the Shaolin Abbot Fu Ju, which dates him and Northern Praying Mantis to the Song Dynasty (960–1279)."

Everyone's heard the legend of how Abbot Fu Ju gathered the 18 masters at Shaolin during the EARLY Northern Song Dynasty (960-1127). However, and I hate to say this, the dating for this gathering is incorrect! This "Fu Ju" is actually a legendary persona of the real Abbot Fu Yu (福裕) who lived from (1203-1275), towards the END of the Southern Song Dynasty (1127-1279). He was given posthumous names and titles by Kubla Khan after his death. This means, the gathering either took place at the end of the Song Dynasty or not at all!

Plus, I've seen a list of the 18 masters and their skills and some of them were bandits from the Water Margin novel. You would think that most of them would have been long dead by the time Fu Yu was appointed abbot and gathered the masters.

Although the quoted paragraph is non-descript in its detail about the exact time the gathering took place, the dating discrepancy should be addressed in the article. All viewpoints should be covered. (!Mi luchador nombre es amoladora de la carne y traigo el dolor! 18:24, 11 September 2006 (UTC))

"Schools" section
Looks like the "schools" section is a bit confusing. Lots of names and places in a very condensed paragraph. Also, is it correct? It says:

Lee Kam-Wing, whose successors include John Cheng of the United States, Brandon Jones of Texas, Latouille Fabien of France and Dirceu Amaral Camargo of Brazil

However, it looks like Dirceu Amaral Camargo of Brazil is not a successor of Lee Kam-Wing, as per the Mantis Cave:

http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/leekam.htm

http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/qixing.htm

Master Camargo seems to be actually a disciple of Chan Poi (Chen Bei) of Wah Lum: http://www.geocities.com/mantiscave/hualin.htm

But who knows, he could have studied with Master Lee Kam-Wing first...

Can anyone help with this?

l 62.18.54.253 (talk) 06:11, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

my 62.18.54.253 (talk) 06:15, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

My teacher Sergio Marzicchi is his only representative in Italy 62.18.54.253 (talk) 06:17, 22 July 2021 (UTC)

Mantis Hook (and maybe some other Mantis related) photos?
C'mon... I'm sure someone can come up with a photo of the hook. Maybe also some other photos.

 * If I can get permission from the copyright holders, I will be adding a comparison photo of a practitioner doing the Hook fist posture and a mantis holding up it's hooks. It will be a merger of two different photos. --Ghostexorcist 07:13, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Taken care of. --Ghostexorcist 23:10, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

I have to disagree with the section on the mantis hook, having studied mantis boxing with a lineage holder of 7 star mantis boxing, his contention was that anyschool which presented the hook as a precision striking device rather than it's tradition intention as a grappling hold (primarily of course), was inauthentic. I think that mention should be made of the grappling hold application as a primary application with others as perhaps secondary. Pierre 18 Jan 2008 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 164.97.245.84 (talk) 03:04, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Well, if you have a verifiable source to support your claims, feel free to add it to the article. If not, we can't rely on hearsay. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 03:43, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

 * I've seen both in Shandong Province, China. Depends on the lineage. It's usually taught as a defensive/grabbing technique with the thumb and two fingers extended. But after the block it can easily be converted into a strike without altering the hand, keeping the fingers extended and using the knuckles of the ring finger and pinky as a striking surface. A good source for more information about this is Ilya Profatilov, who has done lots of research in China about the history and lineage of Plum Blossom and Six Harmonies mantis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.152.243.241 (talk) 21:12, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Published sources are more preferred. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 21:17, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I just uploaded a picture of the restauration tableau at the memorial site in Lao Shan for use in the German version. Maybe you want to also use it here. (Puja108 (talk) 06:48, 27 September 2009 (UTC))

opening paragraph
There is far too much info in the opening section that is never mentioned anywhere else in the article. The opening is supposed to summarize the article. So I think someone needs to shorten the info at the top and include it full-length in the main body. (Ghostexorcist 07:30, 4 January 2007 (UTC))

 * I have corrected the problem voiced above and have renovated the page a bit for conformity and added more info and a picture. --Ghostexorcist 06:33, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Black Mantis
Has anyone ever heard of 'Black Mantis' Kung fu? Chunner (talk) 23:14, 24 November 2010 (UTC)

75% of this article is off.
Looking into having my Sifu, Sifu Henry Chung(50 year practicioner, teaching since 16 in Hong Kong, still teaches today in Midland, Michigan.), and the rest of our Kung Fu family, put some time in to help correct and clarify this article on our beloved Northern Mantis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Craigfulks2 (talk • contribs) 21:42, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

 * Can you be a little bit more specific? Please be advised that any information put on the page needs to be sourced. --Ghostexorcist (talk) 23:13, 30 September 2011 (UTC)

i don't get it. newman a fictional character from seinfeld get his own page but chu chuck kia is not important enough to get a page. where is the respect?

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Northern Praying Mantis. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20061208034459/http://www.goldenharmonykungfu.com:80/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=40 to http://www.goldenharmonykungfu.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=19&Itemid=40
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20060617230517/http://www.cc-am.com:80/Tanglang.htm to http://www.cc-am.com/Tanglang.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 22:01, 18 October 2015 (UTC)

title: Talk:Northern Praying Mantis


text:
Beacon (disambiguation)

A beacon is an intentionally conspicuous device designed to attract attention to a specific location.

Beacon may also refer to:

Music

 * Beacon (band), an American electronic music group
 * Beacon (Two Door Cinema Club album), 2012
 * Beacon (Susumu Hirasawa album), 2021
 * Beacons (album), by Ohbijou, 2009
 * Beacons (EP), by I Like Trains, 2012
 * Beacons (festival), a British music festival

Other uses in arts, entertainment and media

 * Beacon (character), the name of two fictional characters
 * Beacon (Scheer), an art installation in New York, U.S.
 * Beacon, a magazine published on the Isle of Wight by Total Sense Media

Companies

 * Beacon, a retail fuel brand of Valero Energy
 * Beacon Communications (publisher), a publisher of weekly newspapers in Rhode Island, U.S.
 * Beacon Communications Corporation, a defunct newspaper publisher in Massachusetts, U.S.
 * Beacon Pictures an American film production company, also known as "Beacon Communications, LLC"
 * Beacon Press, an American publisher
 * Beacon UK, a private provider of mental health services in England
 * Beacon Health Options a behavioral health company based in Boston, Massachusetts

Schools

 * Beacon Status, a school designation in England
 * Beacon high schools in Beijing, a school designation in China
 * Beacon School (Stamford, Connecticut), U.S.
 * Beacon English School, Korba, Chhattisgarh, India
 * New Beacon School, formerly The Beacon, Sevenoaks, Kent, England
 * The Beacon School, Manhattan, New York, U.S.
 * The Beacon School, Banstead, Surrey, England
 * Beacon Academy, formerly Beacon Community College, Crowborough, East Sussex, England
 * Beacon Academy, Cleethorpes, North East Lincolnshire, England
 * The Beacon Academy, Biñan, Philippines
 * Beacon College in Leesburg, Florida, U.S.
 * Beacon College (Hong Kong)

Places

 * Beacon, Western Australia, Australia
 * Beacon, Devon, United Kingdom
 * Beacon (ward), Dorset, United Kingdom
 * Beacon, Iowa, U.S.
 * Beacon, Jersey City, New Jersey, U.S.
 * Beacon, New York, U.S.
 * Beacon station
 * Beacon Mountain
 * Beacon Valley, Antarctica

Transportation and military

 * MV Beacon, a ship, later Empire Guernsey
 * HMS Beacon, various ships of the Royal Navy
 * USS Beacon, various ships of the U.S. Navy

Other uses

 * Beacon (apple), a cultivar of apple
 * Beacon (streaming service), a boutique subscription streaming service by Critical Role Productions
 * Beacon Supergroup, a rock formation in Antarctica
 * Beacon-class gunvessel, 19th century British ships
 * Beacon, an Appro supercomputer
 * 'Beacon', a cultivar of barley
 * Beacon, an oscillator in Conway's Game of Life
 * Bluetooth Low Energy beacon, providing location to devices in its vicinity
 * Facebook Beacon, advertising software
 * Project Beacon, an early American space satellite program
 * Rotating beacon (disambiguation)
 * Valparaiso Beacons, the athletic program of Valparaiso University in Indiana
 * Web beacon, an Internet web tracking technique

title: Beacon (disambiguation)