text:
Talk:One of These Nights

There's an discrepancy in this article, which states that the same recording of Journey of the Sorcerer was used in all five HGTTG radio series, while The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy entry states that different recordings were used for the first two and final three series. Can someone please clear this up? Thx! - SlickVicar —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.231.18.80 (talk) 01:53, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Journey of the Sorcerer
The article was edited by User:145.118.87.177 to add the comment below after the following text:

 * The track was also used in the third episode of the eighth season of Frasier, The Great Crane Robbery, during a montage in which Frasier Crane is rearranging the furniture in his apartment.

"<- that is incorrect, it was the song "Classical Gas" by Mason Williams, which was later covered into the updated versions, which lack the orchestra. (E.G. the version by guitarist Tommy Emmanuel.)"

Article reverted, comment moved here. --Mwalimu59 (talk) 16:19, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

Primary topic and suggested move

 * Which is the primary topic, the album or the song? If the song is the primary topic, I would like to propose the title of the song article would be moved from One of These Nights (song) to One of These Nights and that the title of the album article would be moved from One of These Nights to One of These Nights (album). If anyone would like to discuss the topic, please leave a message on my talk page. Thank you.--67.54.187.27 (talk) 01:00, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * This was just dealt with, ironically, with another album: we now have Hotel California for the song and Hotel California (album). For their second album we have Desperado (song) and Desperado (Eagles album). The third album is On the Border, with the title song not having its own article. We have The Long Run (song) and The Long Run (album). We should be consistent on how we handle this, and I will direct other editors to this discussion. Cheers :> Doc   talk  04:11, 23 August 2013 (UTC)
 * The problem arises from using ambiguous article titles. The obvious way that consistency could be achieved is by always following the title convention of "Some Particular (Eagles song)" and "Some Particular (Eagles album)". When you try to remove parts of those strings from an article title, you introduce ambiguity in cases where there are other topics on Wikipedia that have "Some Particular" name, and you will sometimes be forced to choose whether to consider the song or album with "Some Particular" name as the "primary topic". —BarrelProof (talk) 00:13, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I moved it reflecting the "(Eagles album)" instead of simply "(album)". Doc   talk  03:56, 24 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Oops, I should have checked the talk page before making the album the primary topic. I don't believe this is remotely comparable to Hotel California (disambiguation), since the only other ambiguous terms are the song and a partial title match. Since there are dozens of links meant for the album, I'd suggest a requested move if you disagree with the album being the primary topic for this term. —Xezbeth (talk) 13:00, 28 August 2013 (UTC)

Okay, I've changed my mind. I would just like to change One of These Nights to One of These Nights (album) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.54.187.27 (talk) 21:24, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

in root
Instrumental; banjo by Bernie Leadon, fiddles by David Bromberg, string by the Royal Martian Orchestra, recorded "in root"

What does this phrase, in root, mean? Perhaps it should be explained in the article.Ordinary Person (talk) 14:42, 17 April 2015 (UTC)

 * just my 2cents, as a musician and sometime studio bassist.. perhaps, all done at once, all the players there in the room. Also.. the majority of Eagles might not have liked “I Wish You Peace” ..below their standards.. geez, what anal egos. I THINK it balances out, well w/ all that came before it.. much like "Good Night" at the end of the Beatles White album. ok?? 2602:304:CDAF:A3D0:3010:2693:130A:C9BA (talk) 17:40, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

Then again... some folks pronounce it rowt, some.. root. That is, the metaphorical? journey or road currently being traveled by the forementioned Sorcerer or performers..? As in, being of more importance than the desaltation, ah destination...? 2602:304:CDAF:A3D0:1D92:B1BE:7A5E:C102 (talk) 03:15, 9 April 2017 (UTC)

Don Felder's lead vocal
I know that in the original album sleeve notes, the lead vocals on "Visions" were created solely to Don Felder and elsewhere, I've seen suggestions that either the entire band is singing in unison or Felder double or triple-tracked his own lead vocals. Which is correct.

61.69.217.3 (talk) 07:29, 20 December 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:One of These Nights


text:
Talk:On the Border

T.N.T.S.?
The vocal credit for the title song says "Lead vocals by Don Henley and T.N.T.S.". Who or what is T.N.T.S.? - Ugliness Man 19:45, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I dusted off my old vinyl copy of this album and scrutinized the credits. The cover designer made some odd punctuation choices which has probably caused some confusion:
 * Lead vocals; Don Henley, T.N.T.S.; Coach, Claps; The Clapetts
 * By crosschecking with the credits listed for a couple of the other tracks, it appears that the lead vocals for the title track are actually credited only to Henley. On that track, "T.N.T.S." is credited to someone named "Coach," and "claps" are credited to "The Clapetts."  I was unable to find any reference that explains these additional credits. -- Engineer Bob 00:18, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Do not have a source for this but I have heard/read Eagles refer to Irving Azoff their manager as 'coach' Leighjackson 22:58, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Track Information: "On The Border"
I don't have access to this album, but if there's a whispered "Good night, Dick" on the record, it's a riff on the trademark sign-off of Dan Rowan and Dick Martin, on Rowan & Martin's Laugh-In, not the Smothers Brothers. And while it clearly would have been a reference to Nixon, it couldn't have alluded to his resignation, since the album was issued in March 1974 and Nixon didn't resign until August of that year. Jimakin (talk) 00:00, 11 July 2011 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:On the Border


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User talk:Joeldixon66

Hmm - this is my talk page.

Hey
I had no idea you used Wikipedia! Nice work on the P3P article :D --plattopus (talk) 15:20, Mar 18, 2005 (UTC)

Melbourne meetup
Hey all, just a reminder that there's a meetup tomorrow at 11am in North Melbourne. There are more details at the meetup page. Hope to see you tomorrow! SteveBot (talk) 04:38, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Meetup invitation: Melbourne 26
Hi there! You are cordially invited to a meetup next Sunday (6 January). Details and an attendee list are at Meetup/Melbourne 26. Hope to see you there! John Vandenberg 05:32, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

(this automated message was delivered using replace.py to all users in Victoria)

title: User talk:Joeldixon66


text:
User talk:Hawaii fiveoh

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * Try the Tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the test area.
 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Remember Neutral point of view
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck!

[[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]]

P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).

Untagged images
Thanks for uploading Mbc.jpg and Bobweir.jpg. I notice they currently don't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know their copyright status? (You can use if you created it and wish to release it under the GFDL, or  if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the images and I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much, Laura Scudder | Talk 22:06, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Hawaii fiveoh


text:
Hundi

A hundi or hundee is a financial instrument that was developed in Medieval India for use in trade and credit transactions. Hundis are used as a form of remittance instrument to transfer money from place to place, as a form of credit instrument or IOU to borrow money and as a bill of exchange in trade transactions. The Reserve Bank of India describes the hundi as "an unconditional order in writing made by a person directing another to pay a certain sum of money to a person named in the order."

History
Hundis have a very long history in India. Written records show their use at least as far back as the Twelfth century. The merchant Banarasi Das, born 1586, received a hundi for 200 rupees from his father to enable him to borrow money to start trading.

During the colonial era, the British government regarded the hundi system as indigenous or traditional, but not informal. They were reluctant to interfere with it as it formed such an important part of the Indian economy and they also wished to tax the transactions taking place within the system. Official hundi forms were produced incorporating revenue stamps bearing the image of British monarchs, including Queen Victoria, and disputes between merchants often entered the court system, so in no way was the system an underground one even though it did not take place through normal banking channels.

Types of hundi

 * Sahyog Hundi: This is drawn by one merchant on another, asking the latter to pay the amount to a third merchant. In this case the merchant on whom the hundi is drawn is of some 'credit worthiness' in the market and is known in the bazaar. A sahyog hundi passes from one hand to another until it reaches the final recipient, who, after reasonable enquiries, presents it to the drawee for acceptance of the payment. Sahyog means co-operation in Hindi and Gujrati, the predominant languages of traders. The hundi is so named because it required the co-operation of multiple parties to ensure that the hundi has an acceptable risk and fairly good likelihood of being paid, in the absence of a formalized credit monitoring and reporting framework.
 * Darshani Hundi: This is a hundi payable on sight. It must be presented for payment within a reasonable time after its receipt by the holder. Thus, it is similar to a demand bill.
 * Muddati Hundi: A muddati or miadi hundi is payable after a specified period of time. This is similar to a time bill.

There are few other varieties; the Nam-jog hundi, Dhani-jog hundi, Jawabee hundi, Jokhami hundi, Firman-jog hundi, etc.

 * Nam-jog hundi - such a hundi is payable only to the person whose name is mentioned on the Hundi. Such a hundi cannot be endorsed in favour of any other person and is akin to a bill on which a restrictive endorsement has been made.
 * Furman-jog Hundi - such a hundi can be paid either to the person whose name is mentioned in the hundi or to any person so ordered by him. Such a hundi is similar to a cheque payable on order and no endorsement is required on such a hundi.
 * Dhani-jog Hundi - when the hundi is payable to the holder or bearer, it is known as a dhani jog hundi. It is similar to an instrument payable to bearer.
 * Jokhim-Hundi - normally a hundi is unconditional but a jokhim hundi is conditional in the sense that the drawer promises to pay the amount of the hundi only on the satisfaction of a certain condition. Such a hundi is not negotiable, and the prevalence of such hundis is very rare these days because banks and insurance companies refuse to accept such hundis.
 * Jawabi Hundi - if money is transferred from one place to another through the hundi and the person receiving the payment on is to give an acknowledgement (jawab) for same, then such a hundi is known as a Jawabi Hundi.
 * Khaka Hundi - a hundi which has already been paid is known as a Khaka Hundi.
 * Khoti Hundi - In case there is any kind of defect in the hundi or in case the hundi has been forged, then such a hundi is known as a khoti hundi.

title: Hundi


text:
Vauxhall Belmont

The  Vauxhall Belmont is a saloon car sold in Great Britain by Vauxhall between January 1986 and September 1991. It is a rebadged version of the Opel Kadett E saloon, with this bodystyle launched in September 1985. The other body styles of the Kadett E were marketed in the United Kingdom as Vauxhall Astra. The Belmont won praise for its huge boot compared to other rivals of the time.

With hatchbacks becoming firmly established as the preferred bodystyle in small European family cars, fewer saloons were on offer. During the 1980s, in order to enable them to position saloons as a slight cut above their hatchback counterparts, many manufacturers marketed them with different nameplates.

Ford of Europe's saloon version of the Ford Escort hatchback was badged the Ford Orion, and the Volkswagen Golf based saloon was sold as the Volkswagen Jetta.

However, when GM launched a saloon version of the Vauxhall Astra/Opel Kadett, only British customers received it with a different badge. The Belmont went on sale in January 1986. While sold as a Kadett in the rest of Europe, in South Africa, it was called the Opel Monza (not to be confused with the large Senator based coupé sold in Europe) along with a convertible. This replaced the Opel Ascona.

When the Astra II was replaced in September 1991, the Belmont nameplate was shelved, the car never having never lived up to Vauxhall's claim that it was "not just a booted Astra".

In December 2004, it was revealed that the Belmont was the most stolen car in the United Kingdom in terms of ratio stolen, with 1,978 vehicles stolen in 2003, which amounted to around 1 out of every 10 Belmonts registered. At this time, an estimated 20,000 Belmonts remained on the road. The car also topped a similar list for 2005, this list being published in December 2006.

As of 2019, according to records by the DVLA, only twenty three Belmonts remain on the roads, with a further sixty nine on SORN. This has made it a very rare car on British roads.

End of the Belmont
Vauxhall deleted the Belmont nametag with the launch of the Mark 3 Astra in September 1991, and the Astra nameplate was used on all body styles. For later variant of the Astra, see the Opel Astra. Sales of the Astra badged saloon were not as strong as those achieved by the Belmont, as saloons of this size continued to fall in popularity throughout the 1990s.

Later Astra saloons were also sold as an Opel, unlike the Belmont, which in the United Kingdom was only sold as a Vauxhall. The saloon version was dropped altogether in March 2004, upon the launch of the MK V Astra, although right hand drive saloons with Opel badges have continued to be sold in Ireland.

title: Vauxhall Belmont


text:
Kutchi language

Kutchi (કચ્છી,, ڪڇّي) or Kachhi is an Indo-Aryan language spoken in the Kutch region of India and Sindh region of Pakistan.

Influences from other languages
Some scholars have considered Kutchi to be a dialect of Sindhi, but the two languages are quite distinct from one another. Over time, it has borrowed vocabulary from Gujarati. The variety of Kutchi spoken in Sindh and in the Banni region of Kutch is more similar to the Lari dialect of Sindhi, whereas the Kutchi spoken in the eastern parts of Kutch has more Gujarati influence, and is slowly becoming more similar to Gujarati.

Most Kutchis living in India are bilingual or trilingual, due to exposure to closely related neighbouring languages such as Gujarati. Many Pakistani Kutchis are also bilingual or trilingual; many residents of Karachi speak Kutchi. Its differences from neighbouring languages are more pronounced in its spoken varieties, but it has many loans from Gujarati, Marwari (a major western Rajasthani language) and Hindi-Urdu as well. Major Kutchi-speaking communities include Charans, Jadeja, Bhanushalis, Lohanas, Brahmins (Rajgor), Meghwals, Visa Oswal and Dasa Osval (Oshwal) Jains, followers of Satpanth, Bhatias, Rabaris and various Muslim communities in the region, including the Muslim Kutchi Khatris, the Muslim Khojas, the Muslim Rajput-Rayma and Kutchi Memons.

By way of emigration during the British reign, many members of the Kutchi communities left India / Pakistan and settled in regions of East Africa such as Kenya, Somalia, Tanzania, Uganda, Zaire/Congo, and even as far south as South Africa. The landing point of entry into Africa was in Zanzibar which was a trading post of goods between India and East Africa in the late 1800s. Asians in this region of Africa often adopted Swahili words and phrases into their language, producing a creole language called Kutchi-Swahili.

Common words and phrases
There are distinct regional accents and variations in grammar. As in many languages spoken along Asian trade routes. Many Kutchi speakers also speak Gujarati as a separate language, especially as it is the language in which Kutchi speakers customarily write. Kutchi speakers' Gujarati accent and usage tends towards standard forms that any Gujarati speaker would be able to understand.

The following words are commonly used by Hindu individuals descending from the Kutch rural area of Gujarat, India, who, especially if in east Africa, reject Kutchi. These are colloquial forms of general Gujarati phrases that are often used in daily conversation in villages, particularly of Kutchi predominance, and are Gujaratisized versions of Kutchi words. Kutchi is also very close to Sindhi and Gujarati due to historical, cultural and geographic influences. These relationships are evident in the following examples:

Note: Bracketed texts indicate nasal or strong Sounds

Writing system
Kutchi is normally written using a modified version of the Gujarati script. Many books and magazines are published in the language using the modified Gujarati script, including Vadhod ("Inquiry"). In earlier times it was written in Khudabadi and Khojki script, which is now extinct. Dr Rajul Shah, an ayurvedic doctor, psychologist and a graphologist has created a script to use for the language.

There are examples of the Kutchi script in the Kutch Museum, though the script is believed to be now extinct.

title: Kutchi language


text:
Talk:Babywearing

Untitled
Note: New posts go at the bottom of the page.

"Baby" as proper noun
Does anyone else get annoyed when people use "baby" as if it were a proper noun? Such as "if baby cannot hold his head up..." in this article. Rhobite 20:41, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * Very much so, and quite a bit of this article isn't written in a very encyclopedic style. violet/riga (t) 21:45, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I fixed all the "baby as proper noun" parts. If it's a proper noun it should at least be capitalized...  But that's moot now.  But the article still reads more like an ad for babywearing than an article on it.  Hopefully someone will NPOV it one of these days. Icarus 04:13, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

--Nippi 22:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC) This page is one big add, with the editor abusing their position simply to get page rank 5 links to their own site, deleting links to others.

Is this what wikipedia is about?

Merge to Baby sling
I fail to see any reason to maintain both this article and Baby sling. It just makes two sites for spam fighters to watch instead of one. -- Mwanner | Talk 13:08, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I believe there may be a good reason for the two articles seperated, but at this time there is not enough valuable content for two articles. I suggest we put all content in Babywearing now. Perhaps later, when enough detailed (and NPOV) content on specific slings is gathered, we can revive the Baby sling page. --Philippe 06:45, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I believe I have improved both pages significantly. Please check my notes on baby sling's discussion page for suggestions on reorganization and renaming of the babywearing/baby sling/baby carrier/child carrier group. I would do it, but don't know how. Oh, and Nine In, Nine Out is not a spam site. Product sales are minor and secondary to the primary goals of the organization to support research and education. If a link to La Leche League would be acceptable in a breastfeeding article (despite the fact that La Leche League sells products) then a link to Nine In Nine Out is essential to a babywearing article. The organizations have similar goals in their respective niches. Jenrose 08:00, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
 * I totally agree on the Nine In Nine Out link being essential to the article and not spam at all. How can a non-profit site directly related to the article content be spam? --User:tash 22:10, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

NOPV
This page needs a major cleanup. It is not neutral in tone. Philippe 14:52, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

I agree. "...the sling will often have a calming influence like nothing else" does not meet NPOV standards. This article gives little information of interest.140.233.208.82 03:10, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Removing entire section on why babywearing. No useful info and not NPOV: full of weasel words Philippe 08:07, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

I changed the section under Practicality of babywearing. "Seeing the world as everyone else does" seemed a little... ambitious a phrase. I considered removing the entire sentence since it really has nothing to do with the practicality of babywearing, but thought that I would submit that to talk first. --NizzyWizzy 22:51, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I think your edit is fine. Jenrose 07:10, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Spam in links
Please do not add external links without discussing first. We know there are a million sites on this topic. We do not want to list them all here. Adding external links without discussing will most probably result in the link being deleted as spam. Philippe 15:10, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

This includes DIY links. MamaToto, TBW and NINO all provide links to DIY. Rev Jan's site, much as I love it, is not appropriate here, and links to forum posts are notoriously unstable. Jenrose 22:56, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

No, really. DO NOT ADD LINKS, even to "helpful sites" where they are not primarily focused on babywearing. Having a babywearing section, even for a .org site, is NOT ENOUGH to make a site a vital reference for this page. Leave the links as they are, do not add spam, even for community sites. If it doesn't offer something new and different and *real* in the resource realm, don't add it. This is not the place to promote your web community. Jenrose 23:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

I mean it. My Baby Nest is NOT a link that any of us who check in on this page will allow to stand. Spam is evil. Stop it. Jenrose (talk) 08:47, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

References, anyone?
I think the title says it all. Furthermore, the article seems to list advantages of babywearing and very few disadvantages at all, making it far from neutral. At this stage I would say that merging this into any other article would probably spoil the other article. Many other problems with this article are listed above but there are probably many more. --Hydraton31 19:15, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

I dont know how to add this properly, but http://www.violence.de/tv/rockabye.html refrences violence and aggresion issues. "The Vital Touch" by Sharon Heller, Ph.D. also does. Although I will admit that these lend more to ap then to bwing in general. But bwing does make ap easier....... --User:tash 22:07, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

I would be quite surprised to find a list anywhere of the disadvantages of babywearing. You're as likely to find an unbiased list on that topic as you would be to find a list titled "Disadvantages of Eating Nutritious Foods." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.130.228.223 (talk) 20:03, August 28, 2007 (UTC)

As of Nov 2009, I have added many citations, and have removed the refcite. Jenrose (talk) 12:40, 15 November 2009 (UTC)

Remove NPOV tags?
Attention: Given recent changes, I would like to remove some of the dispute, NPOV tags at the top of the page. What is needed to make this happen? Jenrose 00:03, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I don't know-- still seems to me that the article makes a vast number of unsourced claims. I have added citation needed tags to many of them.  There is virtually no counter position to any of these claims, merely some equally unsourced statements that care must be exercised.  Still seems a far cry from being a well-sourced, balanced piece to me. -- Mwanner | Talk 00:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I fixed the typo in the Kangaroo care mention which was breaking the link. Do I need to duplicate the dozen or so references from Kangaroo care which support the claims in that paragraph? I'll track down cites for the upper statements or remove them. Please also look at Jenrose 00:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I am going to do a major rewrite of the babywearing benefits section. Most of the claims there are overblown and unsupported, however there ARE good researched and supportable claims to be made. I may ask another expert to write this section, as she already has a well-documented blurb on just this topic. Jenrose 01:02, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

Before editing
If you are editing existing text for anything other than typos, factual errors or poor wording, please check the style guides first. I am about to go fix many instances where someone went through and "fixed" section titles to capitalize all nouns. This does not conform with Wiki's style guide. Please check before you correct, we did it that way on purpose!Jenrose 06:30, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

The links that are in place now have been discussed both here and among the babywearing community. They are minimal, noncommercial, and important to the subject. BWI's site at the moment is minimal, but that is a very temporary situation--as *the* international babywearing organization (NINO is no more, early next year BWI is likely to be the umbrella for most babywearing groups and already has nonprofit status). TBW is a critical resource, and should be linked. The recall page is highly relevant. Coming in and deleting them as unnecessary is inappropriate. We have pared it down to the bare minimum, please leave it.Jenrose 08:23, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Please see Wikipedia's External links policy. BWI should not be linked until it has some useful content.  And TBW is clearly engaged in selling (see the "Shop" link to its Amazon stores), and it also fails on the neutrality criteria-- it is clearly promoting a point of view.  If there is factual material on its site that belongs in the article, by all means add such material to the article.

 * Finally, an extremely important aspect of the External links policy is that an editor adding a link not be involved with the site: "You should avoid linking to a website that you own, maintain or represent, even if the guidelines otherwise imply that it should be linked." I can only assume that you have a less than disinterested relationship to BWI, since you appear to know what it will contain in future.  And given that you "work on my own carrier designs", one is left to wonder whether any of them are available through TBW.  I note that earlier on this page, you were promoting Nine In, Nine Out, which, according to your user page, you started.

 * The "babywearing community" may be comfortable with these links, but this is an encyclopedia, not a social networking site. Links added must be judged on their encyclopedic merits.  Mwanner | Talk 14:25, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

While I am a community member at TBW (which is true of most people who will be knowledgeable in this field) and know many of the people involved with BWI, I am not an owner or responsible for either. If the links to external organizations on the Breastfeeding article (such as LLLI, Kellymom) are acceptable (all of which support their websites with stores that sell books and advocacy gear), then TBW should be allowed to stay, as 99% of the site is dedicated to the extremely informative articles, including historical and scientifically based ones, community, networking and consumer reviews. The store is a *small* part of that. I will not claim "neutrality" on the issue of babywearing, but I *have* gone out of my way to provide a balanced article. It is *negligent* not to talk about TBW when talking about babywearing. I don't have time right now to write the "Modern history of babywearing" which this topic needs, but when that history is written, you will understand that not mentioning TBW when mentioning babywearing is like not mentioning Henry Ford (because of Ford Motors) when you're talking about assembly lines or automobile manufacturing. And BWI does have useful content, it is simply primarily located in the forums as the organization was started in July and their site is still in a state of being created. But if that one needs to wait until they have more content up, fine. But TBW *must* be listed. I do not represent TBW, I simply recognize what a vital contribution to the topic the site has made. BWI would not exist without TBW. There are many brands of baby carrier which would not exist or not be known, but for the babywearer. It is the site that when people ask, "How do I learn more?" the answer is *always*, "Go to Thebabywearer.com". La Leche League sells *underwear* for gosh sakes... The stuff in their amazon store is all affiliate, they are not sending out products, same with Cafepress.

If Wikipedia wants to exclude all links which have any commercial content, the encyclopedia will be a pale, sad imitation of an informative, useful resource with real, concrete and informative information.

And how do I know what will be on BWI in the future? I read their forums. If you want to sign up for the forums, you can read them too, and then you will know what will be there in the future. I also know what NINO did contain, and am not the least bit disinterested or separate from that, and I know that BWI is wanting to do much of what NINO did, but better. You have to choose... do you want people with no interest in a subject writing poor articles that do not accurately inform the reader? Or do you want experts writing for you? Because I'm an expert in the field, there are few people who know more about the history and practical sides of babywearing than me, few who have as much access to both the ups and downsides and few who have been involved longer or more intensively in the subject. I have radically improved, balanced and expanded both articles, and will likely do more in the future. Would you rather have me *not* do that? Is my information so biased that it is invalid? Does taking out links improve the quality of the article's information? Would an encyclopedia article on breastfeeding that did NOT mention LLLI, despite their sales, be complete?Jenrose 19:24, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

 * First, please understand that the External links guidelines are not something I wrote: they are, like all Wikipedia policy, collaboratively arrived at via thousands of edits by hundreds of users. If you are convinced that Wikipedia "will be a pale, sad imitation of an informative, useful resource..." if it choses to exclude all links which have any commercial content, you should take your concerns to Wikipedia_talk:External_links and argue the point there.

 * Read it. TBW's primary purpose is not to sell stuff. The rules are clear, I've gone over every one, and I know TBW, and it is NOT that kind of site. I've deleted other very good websites myself because they crossed the line into selling carriers as a main activity. TBW specifically does not sell carriers, they only sell advocacy gear to support the site, and the information is the goal, not the selling. Ergo, it does not fail #5... because selling is not the main purpose. I've known all three owners of TBW, and their goal has always been to simply keep the thing up and running as an information resource, a central clearinghouse for babywearing research, reviews and articles. The forums are large, but that is simply a function of the quality of the site at helping people learn about babywearing--people read, learn, develop more questions, go ask the questions, get answers. It is impossible to say that a site like TBW is "primarily" social networking, or "primarily" commercial because it is such a large, in-depth resource. It contains much primary research, much secondary research, you would have to spend months reading to get through all that is there that is of encyclopedic value. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jenrose (talk • contribs)

 * We must be looking at different sites. See [ http://astore.amazon.com/thebabywearer-20 ]. I especially like the "Price too low to display"! -- Mwanner | Talk 14:27, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Do you know what an Amazon Affiliate store is? Basically a structured link to Amazon where the site gets a percentage of sales. Amazon is the one who puts in "Too low to display"... TBW is simply providing a gateway. Yes, they receive part of the money from sales, but we're talking peanuts, and it is NOT a fundamental part of the site. I'd never looked there until you mentioned it. I've had that kind of affiliate store myself. That they list a handful of items hardly makes selling the site's primary function. Jenrose 11:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Second, what is going on at breastfeeding or any other article is entirely beside the point-- if we had to get all articles to adhere to a policy before we could apply it to any one of them, policy statements wouldn't be worth writing.

 * Then answer me this... should LLLI be excluded from the breastfeeding article because their website has a store? It's relevant because I'm asking for clarification... the "general" question is, "Are all information sites to be excluded if they sell anything, ever, even if the selling is secondary to the goal of the site, which is providing information?" The difference in those two concepts is basic... most babywearing vendors start out with a store and then add articles and how-to and whatnot. But places like TBW and LLLI start out as grassroots, move to research and networking, and then end up as repositories for tremendous volumes of unique and useful information. On the way, they discover that server space and bandwidth are expensive, and start selling a few related things in order to cover that server space, but the goal remains "Provide information". TBW started out with no advertising and no selling, a pro-bono work of Jeni Norton and Denby Angus, an Australian couple who had a hard time finding the right carrier, went through many, discovered they loved babywearing in general and wanted to help others figure out what would work for them. Jeni is now doing research in her graduate program on babywearing. They stopped being able to afford to support the site out-of-pocket when it blossomed almost overnight into *the* central place for people to meet to talk slings. After a couple of years, they passed on ownership to Melanie (can't remember her last name right now), a former sling vendor in Canada who sold her business to focus on advocacy. She started taking advertising simply to offset the huge money drain of the server space. Somewhere in there, someone set up a cafepress shop. Still going into the red, ownership was passed on to Christy, an American who took it on and set up an amazon shop, again to support the site. They do have memberships--but there is no part of the site that cannot be accessed without them, those of us who have memberships do so completely voluntarily because we support the goals of the site and value it. Although there are feature articles about specific vendors, there has always been an overriding concern on the site to keep such things separate from reviews, and TBW does not endorse *any* specific product over another. —Preceding unsigned comment added by jenrose (talk • contribs)

 * You'd get different answers from different editors on whether there is an absolute ban on sites that engage in direct selling-- the practice certainly raises the bar substantially. The reasons are simple: sites that sell things are far less certain to be sources of unbiased info, and editors automatically appear to have potential conflicts of interest in choosing to add the link. You, yourself, deleted this edit with the comment "Removed Mamatoto as wearyourbaby.org has become a vendor"-- the site in question uses an Amazon store just like TBWs. Mwanner | Talk 14:27, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Not just like. TBW's store does not list carriers (although like most affiliate stores, you can find a few if you search all of Amazon...they are not promoted, you can't find them easily.) Mamatoto's specifically lists carriers, and to be specific, two brands of a specific kind of carrier. TBW is deliberately not listing carriers on their storefront in an effort not to be biased towards one specific carrier. Mamatoto is listing *one* brand and advocating that brand specifically. That is where the difference is in a Babywearing article. Mamatoto crossed the line by advocating one brand, one type of carrier, and making "buy carriers" a prominent part of the site. TBW consistently makes the effort to provide information on a wide variety of carriers without telling people "Buy this one! (that we profit from)". It does not show bias about babywearing or specific brands to list a carseat... or to list a book or some other product that parents have been talking about that is not a carrier. That store is mostly tied in and related to the forums (they tend to list things in the store that people are talking about in the general chat as "must have products"). It doesn't really make sense to (or likely draw sales from) the casual reader who links in from somewhere else. And as such is not a primary function of the site. If it were, it would be bigger, splashier, and far better promoted.. and they would not bend over backwards to avoid bias regarding carrier products. And for Wikipedia purposes, I believe that passes the #5 criteria. You'd rather see no sales. But TBW with no sales and no ads was a $7,000 per *month* drain on the earlier owners. Now, between donations, memberships and a trickle of sales, they probably break even on the server costs, and of that incoming money, I would hazard a guess that 90% involves subscriptions or donations. I've done both myself, yet never bought one thing from their shops. TBW gets support from vendors through advertising, but from hundreds of vendors, not just one brand or type. It is a uniquely balanced resources in that regard. Jenrose 11:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Third, the forums that you consider to be of such value in TBW are explicitly excluded from acceptable links: see External_links, # 11,

 * Which is why I never linked directly to the forums.

 * TBW started as an articles resource. That is a major part of the site. Another resource it started with, a primary goal of the site, was consumer reviews of every baby carrier brand. Not some, not specific ones, but all. The forums were an afterthought. They are a well-used and popular part of the site, but social networking is *far* from the "main" purpose of TBW. Most people who come to the site read the reviews, read the articles and move on. This is exactly the kind of informative resource that Wikipedia *should* link to, and there is no way that this article could *ever* be comprehensive enough to include all that information and still be considered "encyclopedic".  —Preceding unsigned comment added by jenrose (talk • contribs)

 * Fourth, it may or may not be "*negligent* not to talk about TBW when talking about babywearing", but talking about and linking to are quite different things. In fact, our article on the assembly line does not link to the Ford site; it does link to a public domain article written by Henry Ford. (I note, though, that Babywearing does not, in fact, mention TBW at all, despite your having made a dozen edits to it. So it must be possible to have a responsible article that fails on that point.)

 * The article "babywearing" has not yet had a "history of recent babywearing" section added. That is where TBW is relevant. But the research article linked here *is* relevant to the page as listed. The new section will take time, and I do have a life, and haven't yet set aside time to write the history bit. Will do, but is not a priority right now compared to things in my real life. I will need to put a good 20 hours or so into sourcing, formating, etc. Don't have it at the moment, not in a concentrated way. —Preceding unsigned comment added by jenrose (talk • contribs)

 * Yes, but your claims above would seem to suggest that TBW is so essential to the subject that it is incredible that it hasn't been mentioned early in the article, say, along side Dr. Sears. Mwanner | Talk 14:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I did not write the part about Dr. Sears, so I can't answer that... most of my efforts have been at fixing the "broken" stuff and adding as much as I could about practical. But the link has been added by several different people, every time it has been removed, because the value of that resource is so high. I see the external links section as a "read more about it"...and to that end, there is no better place to send people than TBW. Want more citations and studies and research based articles? TBW has it. Want how to? TBW has it. Want instructions for making a sling? TBW has it and it will NEVER be allowed here, as far as I know, yet is very informative for people who are interested from a wide variety of perspectives ranging from anthropological to grandmotherly sewing interest. Traditional babywearing? Extensive information, photos, first person accounts in both articles and and forums. It is hard to talk about TBW without sounding like an ad for the site, it is *so* good. My goal has been to keep the articles matter-of-fact, as neutral in tone as one can with a topic that is not really particularly controversial, and as succinct and to the point as possible.

 * Fifth, you say that "...TBW *must* be listed. [...] BWI would not exist without TBW. There are many brands of baby carrier which would not exist or not be known, but for the babywearer." I don't really think that whether BWI or any given brand of baby carrier exists or not is of particular concern to an encyclopedia-- the goal is descriptive, not promotional. And if TBW is so crucial to the subject of babywearing, why is it that no one, yourself included, has yet chosen to write about it in the article?

 * Because if people follow the link, the value is self evident. —Preceding unsigned comment added by jenrose (talk • contribs)

 * No, but you're claiming that the site is essential to telling the story of babywearing, like Ford to the assembly line. Mwanner | Talk 14:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Finally, your "do you want experts writing for you?" query seems to suggest that, if you cannot have your link to TBW in the article, you will take your expertise and go home. I don't see the connection.  I can assure you that Wikipedia has many experts writing for it that do not make linking to a particular site a quid pro quo for their continuing contributions.  And I think it is safe to say that the Wikipedia community as a whole is not interested in accepting contributions on that basis.

 * That is not what I am suggesting. You seemed to be implying that if I was as connected as all that, I shouldn't be writing at all, that I would be too biased. Take your pick. Either value my expertise and my judgement and knowledge of the subject matter and the importance of such a link (note that I have NOT been trying to defend other links which would also have value--TBW is worth going to the mat for, and I am not the only person who has posted on this and on the Baby_sling article saying so...) or don't... but if I'm too biased to trust, maybe I shouldn't be writing. You seem to be unwilling to acknowledge that your assessment of TBW as a "commercial" site might be wrong... yet when I read the rules about external links, nothing I find there supports your position. I've been babysitting this article for a year, I check it every few days, remove spam when it pops up, but why should I keep doing that if you are so determined that even non-spam links should go? I don't feel like arm wrestling you over it, but I really just think you are flat out wrong in your assessment, and I challenge you to go read the article linked, some of the articles and reviews, and tell me if you truly believe that it is more important to TBW to sell a shirt than to help people understand the whys and hows of babywearing. Because the external links guidelines do NOT exclude "all commercial activity". They are specific about commercial activity that is the "primary goal of the site." —Preceding unsigned comment added by jenrose (talk • contribs)

 * Well, maybe, but as you point out, things change. At some point the commercial activity "tail" could end up wagging the babywearing promotion "dog".  Who's to say if or when that point will come?

 * As you said with BWI, we have to look at right now. And right now, the tail is not wagging the dog. It's not like we're linking to Babycenter, where sales *are* the driving goal of the site, but they have lots of forums and articles. We're linking to a site where the driving goal has *always* been to provide information, where sales have always been, and will always be, supportive of that goal, not subversive of it. Note *what* is being sold.Jenrose 11:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

 * More importantly, though, is that what you're saying here suggests that the TBW link can act as a substitute for a good, complete Wikipedia article. That is exactly what we don't want to happen-- we want our articles to contain everything that belongs in an excellent encyclopedia article.  Otherwise we just end up as a list of everybody's favorite subject links.

 * The article is not just a list of everyone's favorite subject links. In fact, many, many links have been deleted specifically because the subject matter (sewing a sling, general gushy benefits of babywearing, cartoon doll avatars with baby slings) was not appropriate to an encyclopedia. We (and I say we because I have talked with several other people who have edited this article and agree with me on the subject of TBW) want *ONE* superb link to remain, which provides access to "everyone's favorite links" on the subject, but also has good, original content which is encyclopedic. And while you want your articles to contain everything that belongs in an excellent encyclopedia article, I do not believe that Wikipedia wants to duplicate the work of TBW, because it is *too* in depth. The subjects TBW delves into are far more varied and numerous than would be needed or appropriate here. I do not see that an encyclopedia should substitute for a textbook... The point is that if the article were more complete, it would already contain TBW with such mention as to make the deletion of the link inappropriate, and while it is not complete enough, the link is vital to those who want more in-depth information than I and others like me have time or energy to provide right now pro bono. Jenrose 11:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

 * As for trusting expert judgment, Wikipedia explicitly depends on a collaborative decision process: experts can use their expertise to try to convince other users by argumentation, but they cannot say "I'm the expert, so I'm the boss of the article."  Not all expert users like the model, but that's how it is. Mwanner | Talk 14:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I'm not trying to be the boss of the article. I am not the only one making changes. But THIS change has been reverted by several of us, you keep undoing our work. It's a fast route to my not feeling like it's worth my time to bother. That's not a threat, it's just the way it is. At some point I may have the time to do the detailed work necessary to getting this article up to the next level. Whether or not I invest that time is going to depend in part about whether the feedback I get from those who edit about whether my judgments are consider appropriate or valued. My interest is in making this article better. Your interest seems to be in "making Wikipedia look good"... which is a laudable goal, but sometimes you lose content by overapplying rules which are meant to be applied carefully, with judgment.

 * You'll note I have not gotten into a reversion war with you. I am discussing this at length because I'd prefer we both have a common goal to make the article more informative, rather than less, and if we can't sort that out, I'm really not interested in banging my head against a brick wall. If you consider my comments valid, you can either put the mention back or tell me that you don't mind me doing it, but I'm not going to play tug of war, I just don't have the energy. I think, I hope that I have been doing good things with this article, improving it as I can despite other drains on my time and energy.Jenrose 11:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

 * One last thought: the one place that a link to a commercial website (and/or one that fails any number of other External links guidelines) is acceptable is in an article about that website. So the link that we are contesting would be perfectly acceptable in an article titled thebabywearer.com, and other articles could contain a direct link (or perhaps a "See also" link) to that article.  The one caveat is that not all articles pass the notability test-- one could write such an article and find it proposed for deletion. (Let me say here that I would not propose such an article for deletion, nor would I vote on such a proposal.  If you're not familiar with the process, see WP:AfD.

 * Jimbo once said that "Wikipedia makes the web not suck." For many of us here, what makes Wikipedia different from 99.99% of the web is that, in so far as its users can make it so, it is completely non-commercial.  Please try to help us make Wikipedia not suck. Thanks, and thank you for your substantive additions to the article.  Mwanner | Talk 23:41, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

 * Frankly, I *am* trying to make Wikipedia "not suck". I'm not sure what universe supports websites that simply do not have any commercial activity at all without somehow underwritten by government or industry... and leaving the link to TBW is a way of helping people have more *good* information without me having the time right now to expand the article as it should be expanded.

 * Babywearing is a HUGE subject. This article scratches the surface. If I had unlimited free time, I would probably expand it to at least a 5-8 wiki page section... but in doing so would be writing a book. I don't have the time right now to do that. We did a conference in 2006 in which we managed to fill 40 different topic areas on babywearing... and people complained that we didn't cover enough stuff. Linking out to more comprehensive resources helps make what is currently superficial allow people who want to go more deeply into the subject an easy way to do so. The history of Babywearing alone is enough to justify its own page.Jenrose 07:52, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

 * See above, re: external links as a substitute for a good Wikipedia article. Mwanner | Talk 15:08, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

See also Wikipedia_talk:External_links. Mwanner | Talk 14:58, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

 * I think that it is a decent article. It could be better. But even if it reached Featured Article perfection, it would STILL not be as in depth as The Babywearer, nor should it be. So a substitute? I don't think so. We are not saying, "Oh, just go here." There is concrete information in the article. But the link should be there. One of the biggest values of the Internet is the ability to take people from summary to expansion, from general resource to specific via hyperlink. I personally think that it would be a more useful article from a practical standpoint with a few more links...but since there is a goal to keep the number of links down, THIS one will help provide the key to the rest of the kingdom. Linking in to TBW, especially through the research page, is *certainly* appropriate and valuable, and I hope you'll put it back.Jenrose 11:05, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

 * OK. I do see the difference between TBW and the other sites, both in terms of contents and degree/type of advertising.  I would ask two things of you, and others who may read this:
 * One, don't let the comprehensiveness of the TBW link stop you from working to improve the article-- our article, properly written, should be much easier on a reader seeking a thorough overview than wading through the entire TBW site (and it should be much more objective and neutral in tone than their site). And
 * Two, do keep an eye on their "Shop" tab. The link really should be yanked if it goes much beyond the current stuff.

 * Finally, please note that my take on this, while it might have some influence a later editor looking at the same question (and our discussion certainly covers most relevant points), is certainly not binding. Anyway, thanks for sticking with the discussion-- this sort of thing can be painful for all involved, but I suspect its good for us all too!  Take care, -- Mwanner | Talk 01:14, 7 November 2007 (UTC)
 * I will talk to the owner about the shop tab... I don't think they have plans to expand it significantly, and the threshold for me is really "Do they sell carriers" and "Has the shop tab become the thing that drives the site" rather than vice verse. Right now, the things that are there are things that come up in conversation on the forums that are non-carriers. I don't think they will change that, but if they do, I'd agree with you on it being pulled. Thanks for the conversation.Jenrose 06:57, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Safety Considerations Section
I removed the entire Safety Considerations Section because it lacked encyclopedic information on the topic page.
 * if this is incorrect in any way, please undo it. :)CaptainMurphy1989 (talk) 01:55, 22 December 2013 (UTC)

Criticisms or downsides to baby wearing
Any parenting technique has critics and there are some genuine downsides to babywearing. Does one parent have to quit work? There's nothing here. Not even criticisms with responses from supporters. Some more balance is needed here. Ileanadu (talk) 05:37, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Babywearing


text:
Old Crow, Yukon

Old Crow is a community in the Canadian territory of Yukon.

Located in a periglacial environment, the community is situated on the Porcupine River in the far northern part of the territory. Old Crow is the only Yukon community that cannot be reached by motor vehicle, requiring visitors to fly in to Old Crow Airport. It is a dry community. Old Crow is also the northernmost non-Inuit indigenous community in North America, and one of only a few such communities north of the Arctic Circle outside of Eurasia.

History
A large number of apparently human modified animal bones have been discovered in the Old Crow area, notably at Bluefish Caves, about 380 km south, and the Old Crow Flats, located about 14 km south, that have been dated to 25,000–40,000 years ago by carbon dating, several thousand years earlier than generally accepted human habitation of North America.

An Indigenous chief named Deetru` K`avihdik, literally "Crow-May-I-Walk", helped settle a community here around the 1870s and the town was named after him. The village was founded around muskrat trapping, which continues to provide basic income.

The people of Old Crow are dependent on the Porcupine caribou herd for food and clothing. The Porcupine caribou herd migrates to the coastal plain in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge (ANWR) in Alaska to give birth to their young. Many citizens of Old Crow believe the herd is being seriously threatened by oil-drilling in the ANWR and have been heavily involved in lobbying to prevent it.

Demographics
In the 2021 Census of Population conducted by Statistics Canada, Old Crow had a population of $236$ living in $116$ of its $168$ total private dwellings, a change of NaN% from its 2016 population of $221$. With a land area of 13.51 km2, it had a population density of in 2021.

Most of its population are Gwich'in, a First Nations people who belong to the Vuntut Gwitchin First Nation.

Transportation
Old Crow Airport provides year-round transportation to other communities. During winter time, a temporary winter road is sometimes built to transport freight into Old Crow; it is not annual, but only when a significant need arises such as a major building project.

Energy supply
Electric energy is supplied by three diesel generators (170 kW, 330 kW and 600 kW), operated by ATCO Electric Yukon. As the community has no road access, diesel fuel needs to be flown in.

In 2019, the microgrid was extended by a PV plant which generates electricity in the summer season, thus saving about 190.000 litres of diesel per year (~$400,000 /a). The plant has been built in an back-to-back configuration to receive a mostly continuous solar harvest during the day. Consequently, the DC capacity of the PV panels (in sum 940 kWpeak) is partly orientated westwards and partly eastwards; the AC capacity of the PV inverter is 480 kW. A battery energy storage system (BESS) has been added with an energy capacity of 350 kWh, balancing out smaller cloud fluctuations and avoiding rapid start stop cycles of the diesel gensets. The whole PV-BESS plant is $6.5 million and shall last for at least 25 years.

By May 2021, the solar plant had begun producing electricity, projected to be fully operational by July and capable of letting the community turn off their diesel generators on sunny days.

Communications
Old Crow is served by Northwestel since 1971. The long-distance connection originally relied on a microwave relay at Rat Pass near the Yukon/NWT border, which also provide a radio-telephone base station along the Dempster Highway, but it was frequently out of service in winter when weather conditions made helicopter access hazardous. In the late 1980s, a satellite ground station was installed in Old Crow, providing more reliable service.

The long-distance connection is noteworthy for two minor incidents. In 1985, the Yukon territorial election was covered by live television coverage for the first time, sent by satellite to Toronto for switching into the network stations in Yukon; however, results from Old Crow were unavailable due to the microwave failure. On 11 September 2001, the satellite connection went out of service, and an aircraft bringing a technician to repair it was challenged by Canadian Forces aircraft for violating the closure of airspace throughout North America.

The community operated its own television transmitter to carry CBC television signals from satellite. The current status of this transmitter is unknown since the CBC in 2012 closed down analog transmitters it owned. The community has APTN television, as well as CHON-FM and CKRW transmitters and a community-owned transmitter picking up CBC station CHAK-AM in Inuvik.

Climate
Old Crow has a subarctic climate (Köppen climate classification Dfc) with mild summers and severely cold winters. Average annual temperature is -8.3 C. Old Crow experiences annual temperature average daily highs of 20.2 C in July and average daily lows of -33.5 C in January. Record high temperature was 32.8 C on August 30, 1976, and the lowest was -59.4 C on January 5, 1975. Precipitation is very low, but is somewhat higher in the summer. Average annual snowfall is 141.4 cm and rainfall is 154.8 mm.

As Old Crow is located north of the Arctic Circle, it experiences polar day or midnight sun in summer and polar night in winter. The midnight sun is typically between May 5 and August 8 inclusive, while the polar night usually starts around December 14 and ends by December 29.

Notable residents

 * Edith Josie, journalist
 * Bertha Allen, feminist activist

title: Old Crow, Yukon


text:
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 * Potlatch Ban - I've created the missing Potlatch Law, Anti-Potlatch Law...Reason this is here is that it's just a start, and there are a-stylistic caps and other issues, including no mention of the 1922 revisions to the law which made it more severe. Athabaskan Potlatch is a newer article, something of a POV fork (though OMR who created the first one admits it's mostly Kwakwaka'wakw in information; potlatching in different peoples was different, especially in the Interior), and full of bad geography/history but earnest, also in need of cleanup; both need expansion and more citations/further reading.  Placed IPNA and WPCAN templates, high importance on the first WP, mid on WPCAN, and history/politics/bc switches.  It's also an orphan, with only two or three articles linking to it, yet I know it's mentioned in other aboriginal history politics articles, just not linked there.
 * WikiProject Canada/Vital Canadian articles - Looking for a project? Notwithstanding the importance of the subjects, many of the articles on this list are in dire need of improvement.
 * Television in Canada looks like it may need a lot of work. Although I haven't read the whole article, so I don't know if it even deserves all those maintenance tags, but there's a lot of them. Anti-Quebec sentiment is pretty tagged-up as well. -- œ ™ 18:51, 23 March 2011 (UTC)
 * Downtown Eastside - has cleanup tag already; rambling, mixed content, "article bloat", and the "organizations" section though in text comes off like a directory/commentary....and Chinatown/Gastown/Japantown content is jumbled up with content on what the common usage of the term means (vs. the city designation, which isn't just Hastings). Needs a chainsaw and de-directoryfying.Skookum1 (talk) 08:04, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
 * East Vancouver - added cleanup tag .... lots of uncited claims/statements, jumbled logic, unlinked linkables, rambling content, needs some de-POVing/editorializing.Skookum1 (talk) 02:07, 26 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I made some expansions this morning by copying over material and refs from Wilson's article; issue remains whether it should be "Judi Tyabji" or by her current married name "Judi Tyabji Wilson"....still needs improvements, see talkpage.Skookum1 (talk) 20:43, 7 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Articles in Category:Nuu-chah-nulth need cleanup after non-MOS expansion.
 * Dockside Green - sustainable development in Victoria, needs a lot of work.  Sources have been identified on the talk page, but have not been implemented in the article. See Talk:Dockside Green.
 * Canadian wikipedians' notice board/Cities - Per WP:NC, an incomplete review of which cities in Canada do or don't merit moves to their undisambiguated city names.
 * Canadian wikipedians' notice board/Missing municipalities - A list of incorporated municipalities in Canada which do not currently have articles. Note that at the present time, this project is only for incorporated municipalities, not unincorporated communities or neighbourhoods.
 * Canadian wikipedians' notice board/Missing Indian reserves - A list of Indian reserves in Canada which do not currently have articles.
 * Category:Canada articles missing geocoordinate data - Follow the instructions at Template:Coord to add co-ordinates to these articles.
 * Category:Unassessed Canada-related articles contains unassessed articles which should be updated with valid entries for class and importance parameters on the talk page WikiProject header.
 * I've updated the how to fix backlog banner to point to the Canadian /Assessment page not the WP Assessment. Also added the assessbacklog banner for those interested in this part of the cleanup and for the Walterbot cleanup list. Argolin (talk) 01:00, 6 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Cannabis in Canada Peter K Burian (talk) 00:09, 17 January 2017 (UTC)
 * I have done a lot of work on the cannabis article, but mostly edits and new content in the Legalization and Commodity sections. This article was written long ago, years before the Federal Government announced that it would be legalized. So, there is still a ton of content on old court decisions, for example. IMHO, these could still be mentioned as part of the history of cannabis, but do we need so much space devoted to them? Peter K Burian (talk) 00:09, 17 January 2017 (UTC)

Requests for comment
''Please add new requests to the top of the list. Please keep debates on the relevant talk page, and only use this section for a concise neutral description of the issue.''
 * Talk:Buffy Sainte-Marie - Discussion of how/where to place indigenous identity issue in the lead. --Rob (talk) 05:36, 8 December 2023 (UTC)

Requests for images
General requests for images: Wikipedia requested photographs in Canada
 * Margaret Trudeau
 * Guelph City Hall (the new one built in 2009, not the historic one which is now a courthouse)
 * Gerry Reid
 * Joan Russow
 * Alice Munro
 * Garden Island, Ontario

Requests for assessment

 * Live assessment requests are located here.

 * Canadian Freelance Union I have extended the entry to make it clearer what the union is up to, and have added citations. I will be adding a bit of a history-to-date section. Would like to remove the "stub" rating if possible.
 * ✅ Sixula (talk) 17:58, 20 September 2020 (UTC)

member of Parliament (sic)
I see various articles where the title of an MP is given as "member of Parliament", which makes no sense. If we are capitalizing proper nouns then write "Member of Parliament". If we are not capitalizing proper nouns then write "member of parliament" but what is the logic of capitalizing one word in member of parliament but not the other? 199.7.157.44 (talk) 23:48, 1 October 2022 (UTC)
 * The logic there is that Parliament is considered the proper name of an institution, and is therefore capitalized. Analogous constructions would be "citizen of Jamaica" or "headmaster of Hogwarts". Indefatigable (talk) 00:33, 3 October 2022 (UTC)
 * See MOS:JOBTITLES. Parliament is a proper noun, "member" is not. So unless we are using it as a (very long, non-modified) title before someone's name, e.g. "...the speech was given by Member of Parliament Chan", then it is not capitalized at Wikipedia. —Joeyconnick (talk) 18:53, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * So members of the House of Commons should be using the postnomials mP instead of MP? I put it to you that Member of Parliament is a proper (compound) noun. And reading MOS:JOBTITLES it would appear one should write: "Jim Peterson was Member of Parliament for Willowdale" as long as you don't use an article before "Member".Wellington Bay (talk) 23:22, 14 April 2024 (UTC)
 * No... acronyms are by convention allcaps... that doesn't mean each of their constituent words are. Do not apply initial capitals—or any other form of emphasis—in a full term that is a common-noun phrase just because capitals are used in its abbreviation from MOS:EXPABBR. —Joeyconnick (talk) 18:25, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

Donnelly Massacre
Would it be appropriate to include the event of February 4, 1880 in the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_events_named_massacres#Before_or_in_1945 list? Although there is not a Wikipedia article per se, it is well-covered/referenced in the Black Donnellys article.  Aloha27  talk  13:46, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 * I think so. You can link directly to the section of the article.  Regards,  PK  T (alk)  15:35, 15 October 2022 (UTC)
 * ✅ Thanks!  Aloha27  talk  19:06, 15 October 2022 (UTC)

Discussion at Talk:Transportation in Canada § Requested move 14 February 2023
You are invited to join the discussion at Talk:Transportation in Canada § Requested move 14 February 2023. Joeyconnick (talk) 01:34, 15 February 2023 (UTC)


text:
Head, Clara and Maria

Head, Clara and Maria, officially the United Townships of Head, Clara and Maria, is a municipality and incorporated township in Renfrew County in eastern Ontario, Canada, It is on the Ottawa River and on the northern edge of Algonquin Park.

Virtually all the communities (Deux-Rivières, Bissett Creek, Stonecliffe and Mackey) and activities are along Highway 17, the rest of the township is largely crown land which is mostly wilderness. Head, Clara and Maria is bordered on the north by the Ottawa River and on the south by Algonquin Provincial Park. Trans Canada Highway 17 runs through the four hamlets which make up this municipality. The municipality is a remarkable cottage destination with many provincial land use permits allowing cottages on crown land. Property taxes are the lowest in Renfrew County.

History
The township of Head was named in honour of Sir Edmund Walker Head, 8th Baronet who served as Lieutenant-Governor of New Brunswick 1847-1854 and Governor-General of Canada 1854-1861. The township of Maria was named in honour of his wife, Lady Anna Maria Head (Nee Yorke) (1808-1890).

Communities
The township includes the communities of Aylen, Bissett Creek, Deux-Rivières, Mackey and Stonecliffe. The municipal offices are located in Stonecliffe.

Deux-Rivières is home to Antlers King Fisher Lodge and access to Algonquin Park via the Brent Road. Stonecliffe is home to Yates General Store, Morning Mist Resort, Pine Valley Lodge, Driftwood Provincial Park and the Municipal Office. Mackey is home to Lakeview Trailer Park.

Demographics
In the 2021 Census of Population conducted by Statistics Canada, Head, Clara and Maria had a population of $267$ living in $116$ of its $133$ total private dwellings, a change of NaN% from its 2016 population of $248$. With a land area of 719.2 km2, it had a population density of in 2021.

Notable people

 * Michael James Heney, a railroad contractor of international renown, best known for his work on the first two railroads built in Alaska, the White Pass and Yukon Route and the Copper River and Northwestern Railway, was born in Stonecliffe.

title: Head, Clara and Maria


text:
Liberum veto

The liberum veto (Latin for "free veto") was a parliamentary device in the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth. It was a form of unanimity voting rule that allowed any member of the Sejm (legislature) to force an immediate end to the current session and to nullify any legislation that had already been passed at the session by shouting either Sisto activitatem! (Latin: "I stop the activity!") or Nie pozwalam! (Polish: "I do not allow!"). The rule was in place from the mid-17th century to the late 18th century in the Sejm's parliamentary deliberations. It was based on the premise that since all of the Polish–Lithuanian noblemen were equal, every measure that came before the Sejm had to be passed unanimously. The liberum veto was a key part of the political system of the Commonwealth, strengthening democratic elements and checking royal power and went against the European-wide trend of having a strong executive (absolute monarchy).

Many historians hold that the liberum veto was a major cause of the deterioration of the Commonwealth political system, particularly in the 18th century, when foreign powers bribed Sejm members to paralyze its proceedings, causing foreign occupation, dominance and manipulation of the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth and its eventual destruction in the partitions. Piotr Stefan Wandycz wrote that the "liberum veto had become the sinister symbol of old Polish anarchy". In the period of 1573–1763, about 150 sejms were held, about a third failing to pass any legislation, mostly because of the liberum veto. The expression Polish parliament in many European languages originated from the apparent paralysis.

Origin
The rule evolved from the principle of unanimous consent, which derived from the traditions of decision making in the Kingdom of Poland, and it developed under the federative character of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. Each deputy represented a region in the Sejm, himself being elected at a sejmik (the local sejm of a region). He thus assumed responsibility to his sejmik for all decisions taken at the Sejm. Since all noblemen were considered equal, a decision taken by a majority against the will of a minority (even if only one sejmik) was considered a violation of the principle of political equality.

At first, the dissenting deputies were often convinced or cowed back to withdraw their objections. Also, at first, the rule was used to strike down only individual laws, not to dissolve the chamber and throw out all measures passed. For example, as historian Władysław Czapliński describes in the Sejm of 1611 context, some resolutions were struck down, but others passed. From the mid-17th century onward, however, an objection to any item of Sejm legislation from a deputy or senator automatically caused other, earlier adopted legislation to be rejected. That was because all legislation that was adopted by a given Sejm formed a whole.

It is commonly and erroneously believed that a Sejm was first disrupted by the liberum veto by a Trakai deputy, Władysław Siciński, in 1652. In reality, he vetoed only the continuation of the Sejm's deliberations beyond the statutory time limit. He had, however, set up a dangerous precedent. Over the proceedings of the next few sejms, the veto was still occasionally overruled, but it became gradually more accepted. Before 20 years had passed, in 1669 in Kraków, the entire Sejm was prematurely disrupted on the strength of the liberum veto before it had finished its deliberations by the Kyiv deputy, Adam Olizar. The practice spiraled out of control, and in 1688, the Sejm was dissolved even before the proceedings had begun or the Marshal of the Sejm was elected.

Zenith
During the reign of John III Sobieski (1674–1696), half of Sejm proceedings were scuttled by the veto. The practice also spread from the national Sejm to local sejmik proceedings. In the first half of the 18th century, it became increasingly common for Sejm sessions to be broken up by the liberum veto, as the Commonwealth's neighbours, chiefly Russia and Prussia, found it to be a useful tool to frustrate attempts at reforming and strengthening the Commonwealth. By bribing deputies to exercise their vetoes, Poland–Lithuania's neighbours could derail any measures not to their liking. The Commonwealth deteriorated from a European power into a state of anarchy. Only a few Sejms were able to meet during the reign of the House of Saxony in Poland (1696–1763), the last one in 1736. Only 8 out of the 18 Sejm sessions during the reign of Augustus II (1697–1733) passed legislation. For a period of 30 years around the reign of Augustus III, only one session was able to pass legislation (1734–1763). The government was near collapse, giving rise to the term "Polish anarchy", and the country was managed by provincial assemblies and magnates.

Disruption of the Commonwealth governance caused by the liberum veto was highly significant. From 1573 to 1763, about 150 Sejms were held, of which 53 failed to pass any legislation. Historian Jacek Jędruch notes that out of the 53 disrupted Sejms, 32 were disrupted by the liberum veto.

Final years
The 18th century saw an institution known as a "confederated sejm" evolve. It was a parliament session that operated under the rules of a confederation. Its primary purpose was to avoid disruption by the liberum veto, unlike the national Sejm, which was being paralyzed by the veto. On some occasions, a confederated sejm was formed of the whole membership of the national Sejm so that the liberum veto would not operate.

The second half of the 18th century, marking the age of the Polish Enlightenment, also witnessed an increased trend aiming at the reform of the Commonwealth's inefficient governance. Reforms of 1764–1766 improved the Sejm's proceedings. Majority voting for non-crucial items, including most economic and tax matters, was introduced, with binding instructions from sejmiks being outlawed. The road to reform was not easy, as conservatives, supported by foreign powers, opposed most of the changes and attempted to defend the liberum veto and other elements perpetuating the inefficient governance, most notably by the Cardinal Laws of 1768.

The liberum veto was finally abolished by the Constitution of 3 May 1791, adopted by a confederated sejm, which permanently established the principle of majority rule. The achievements of that constitution, however, which historian Norman Davies called "the first constitution of its kind in Europe", were undone by another confederated sejm, meeting at Grodno in 1793. That Sejm, under duress from Russia and Prussia, ratified the Second Partition, anticipating the Third Partition, the final dissolution of the Polish-Lithuanian state, just two years later.

Significance
Harvard political scientist Grzegorz Ekiert, assessing the history of the liberum veto in Poland–Lithuania, concludes:
 * The principle of the liberum veto preserved the feudal features of Poland's political system, weakened the role of the monarchy, led to anarchy in political life, and contributed to the economic and political decline of the Polish state. Such a situation made the country vulnerable to foreign invasions and ultimately led to its collapse.

Political scientist Dalibor Roháč noted that the "principle of liberum veto played an important role in [the] emergence of the unique Polish form of constitutionalism" and acted as a significant constraint on the powers of the monarch by making the "rule of law, religious tolerance and limited constitutional government... the norm in Poland in times when the rest of Europe was being devastated by religious hatred and despotism."

It was seen as one of the key principles of the Commonwealth political system and culture, the Golden Liberty.

At the same time, historians hold that the principle of liberum veto was a major cause of the deterioration of the Commonwealth political system and Commonwealth's eventual downfall. Deputies bribed by magnates or foreign powers, or simply content to believe they were living in some kind of "Golden Age", for over a century paralysed the Commonwealth's government, stemming any attempts at reform. Piotr Stefan Wandycz wrote that the "liberum veto had become the sinister symbol of old Polish anarchy." Wagner echoed him thus: "Certainly, there was no other institution of old Poland which has been more sharply criticized in more recent times than this one.".

References in popular culture
A 2004 Polish collectible card game, Veto, set in the background of a royal election during an election sejm, is named after this procedure.

In the Netflix series 1670, Jan Paweł uses liberum veto to "win" an assembly.

Modern parallels
Until the early 1990s, IBM had a decision-making process called "non-concur" in which any department head could veto a company-wide strategy if it did not fit in with their own department's outlook, the disagreements being then sent to the superiors in the hierarchy, often taking several months. This effectively turned IBM into several independent fiefdoms. "Non-concur" was eliminated by CEO Louis Gerstner, who was brought in to revive the declining company.

Dispositions of the European Union law requiring unanimity between states have been compared to the  liberum veto  by some commenters. Wallonia vetoing Belgium's signature of the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA) with Canada brought comparisons to this rule.

Decisions made by the United Nations can be dropped if a permanent member casts a negative vote regarding agenda items. In Security Council, vetoes were used to dismiss ceasefire appeals. Notable examples were single disapprovals of USA representatives regarding Palestine and other Middle East countries.

title: Liberum veto


text: File:Ladder 49 poster.JPG

title: File:Ladder 49 poster.JPG


text:
Ladder 49

Ladder 49 is a 2004 American disaster thriller film directed by Jay Russell and written by Lewis Colick. The film follows Baltimore firefighter Jack Morrison, who is trapped inside a warehouse fire, and his recollection of the events that got him to that point. The film stars Joaquin Phoenix and John Travolta, and was released on October 1, 2004. It received mixed reviews and grossed $102 million worldwide.

Plot
Baltimore City firefighter Jack Morrison saves a man's life in a massive four-alarm fire in a 20-story concrete grain elevator/warehouse in the Canton waterfront neighborhood of Baltimore, Maryland. However, the grain stored in the warehouse explodes, causing Jack to fall through several floors and break his leg. The film follows the efforts of the other men in his unit, Ladder Company 49, led by the commands of Deputy Chief Mike Kennedy, Jack's mentor, to rescue him while Morrison tries to reach a safe area of the burning structure. Interspersed with the rescue efforts are a series of flashbacks showing how Jack joined the fire department, his first meeting (at a supermarket) with the woman who would eventually become his wife, his relationship with his children, and the bonds he formed and the trials and tribulations he endured with his fellow firefighters.

After graduating from the fire academy, Jack is sent to work on Baltimore City Fire Department (BCFD) Engine Company 33, in the busiest firehouse in the city. Quartered with Engine 33 is Ladder Company 49. On Engine 33, Jack learns the ropes of firefighting. He quickly becomes close friends with his fellow firefighters, including Mike, his Captain at the time. Jack's first fire takes place at a burning vacant rowhouse. Engine 33 and Ladder 49 respond and are the first companies on the scene. Jack and Mike enter the building with a hose line and tackle the blaze, with Jack on the nozzle of the hose. They quickly and triumphantly extinguish it.

After some time working on Engine 33, Jack arrives at the scene of another vacant rowhouse fire, where a fellow firefighter from Ladder 49, Dennis Gauquin dies after falling through the roof of a building. After a quarrel between the firefighters, the Captain tells them to stick together. Later, numerous firefighters attend Dennis's funeral. Jack decides, although it is more dangerous, to take his late friend's position as a "truckie", a search and rescue member on Ladder 49 by transferring to the Truck.

As the years go by, Jack suffers traumatic experiences from rescuing a man from the ledge of a burning high-rise building in Downtown Baltimore, and witnessing another friend and fellow firefighter from Ladder 49, Tommy Drake suffer severe burns following a steam explosion at an industrial building. He finds the work rewarding, but his wife worries about his safety and opposes the change. However, she eventually accepts his new role and even talks him out of taking an administrative position that Mike, who has become a Deputy Chief, offers him.

One Christmas Eve, Jack and the members of Engine 33 and Ladder 49 respond to a burning apartment building. Jack is able to rescue a young girl trapped in an engulfed apartment, but is briefly trapped himself before being rescued by a fellow Firefighter from Ladder 49, Leonard "Lenny" Richter. Both men receive the department's Medal of Valor for their actions.

Back at the grain building fire that opened the film, Jack's fellow firefighters are determined to rescue him, and Jack does his best to reach the only possible safe area, to which Mike directs him. However, upon reaching that room he sees that the only exit is cut off by raging flames. Out of air and with the heat intensifying, Jack realizes that his situation is hopeless. He radios Mike to pull his men back so that no one else gets killed or hurt while trying to rescue him, and accepts his fate. A devastated Mike reluctantly agrees and commands all rescue units to evacuate the building.

At Jack's funeral, Mike delivers an emotional eulogy in celebration of Jack's life, which inspires a standing ovation from friends and family in attendance. Jack's body is then borne to its resting place with full honors, on the back of Engine 33 in a classic fireman's funeral procession. The final scene has Mike and company en route to a call while he flashes back to Jack and his companion firefighters rushing to fires, then the final shot of Mike and Jack emerging from Jack's first ever burning building in triumph.

Cast

 * Joaquin Phoenix as Firefighter Jack Morrison, Ladder Company 49 (formerly Engine Company 33)
 * John Travolta as Deputy Chief (formerly Captain) Mike Kennedy, Deputy Chief 1 (formerly Engine Company 33)
 * Jacinda Barrett as Linda Morrison, Jack's wife
 * Morris Chestnut as Firefighter Tommy Drake, Ladder Company 49 Tillerman
 * Balthazar Getty as Firefighter Ray Gauquin, Ladder Company 49
 * Robert Patrick as Firefighter Leonard "Lenny" Richter, Ladder Company 49
 * Billy Burke as Firefighter Dennis Gauquin, Ladder Company 49
 * Tim Guinee as Captain Tony Corrigan, Ladder Company 49
 * Kevin Chapman as Lieutenant (formerly Firefighter) Frank McKinney, Engine Company 33
 * Jay Hernandez as Probationary Firefighter Keith Perez, Engine Company 33
 * Kevin Daniels as Firefighter Engineer Don Miller, Engine Company 33
 * Steve Maye as Firefighter Pete Lamb, Engine Company 33
 * Robert Logan Lewis as Firefighter Ed Reilly, Ladder Company 49
 * Spencer Berglund as Nicky Morrison, Jack and Linda's son
 * Brooke Hamlin as Katie Morrison, Jack and Linda's daughter
 * Sam Stockdale as Himself
 * Paul Novak, Jr. as the Voice of Ladder 49, The Dispatcher - with a deep, sensual baritone
 * Mayor of Baltimore Martin O'Malley as himself

Songs
Robbie Robertson contributed the film's theme song, "Shine Your Light". He also composed an adagio for the end credits. The film also features "Love Sneakin' Up On You" by Bonnie Raitt, among others.

Home media
Ladder 49 premiered on DVD on March 8, 2005 by Buena Vista Home Entertainment (under the Touchstone Home Entertainment label). A Blu-ray version was released on February 13, 2007.

Reception
Ladder 49 grossed $74,463,263 at the US box office and $102,332,848 worldwide.

Critical response
On review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes, the film has an approval rating of 41% based on 164 reviews, and an average rating of 5.35/10. The site's critical consensus reads, "Instead of humanizing the firemen, the movie idolizes them, and thus renders them into cardboard characters." On Metacritic, the film has a weighted average score of 47 out of 100, based on 32 critics, indicating "mixed or average reviews. Audiences polled by CinemaScore gave the film an average grade of "A−" on an A+ to F scale.

It received a rating of 3.5 out of 4 stars from Roger Ebert, who wrote: "The movie is not about a dying man whose life passes before his eyes, but about a man who saved a life and put himself in danger, and how he got to that place in his life, and what his life and family mean to him. Because it is attentive to these human elements, Ladder 49 draws from the action scenes instead of depending on them."

Use in The Ricky Gervais Show
Starting in 2002, the film gained notoriety as a running gag on The Ricky Gervais Show. A DVD copy of Ladder 49 frequently appears as a prize for winners of the quiz segment "Rockbusters" hosted by Karl Pilkington. The abundance of DVD copies and their unfavourability as rewards became a recurring joke on the program, as co-host Stephen Merchant often remarked there were many copies "lying around the office".

title: Ladder 49


text:
Administrative divisions of Russia in 1719–1725

Major events
The second administrative reform of 1719 was carried out by Peter the Great in order to fix the deficiencies of the original system. On June 9 (May 29 in the Julian calendar), 1719 Peter issued an ukase (edict) that abolished the division of the governorates into lots (доли). Instead, most of the Governorates were divided into provinces (провинции), and provinces were further subdivided into districts (дистрикты). Provinces were governed by voyevodas. The idea of the subdivision of governorates into province was borrowed from the administrative division system of Sweden and other European countries. Districts were introduced to replace the old system of subdivision into uyezds; however, the borders of the new districts did not match those of the old uyezds. The purpose of the districts was also different from that of the uyezds—population of each district was taxed to support military units assigned to it.

 * June 9 (May 29), 1719—Nizhny Novgorod Governorate was re-established.
 * June 9 (May 29), 1719—Revel Governorate was formed on the newly acquired Baltic lands.

Subdivisions (as of 1724)

 * Archangelgorod Governorate (Архангелогородская губерния)
 * subdivided into 4 provinces:
 * Archangelgorod Province (Архангелогородская провинция)
 * Galich Province (Галичская провинция)
 * Ustyug Province (Устюжская провинция)
 * Vologda Province (Вологодская провинция)
 * Astrakhan Governorate (Астраханская губерния)
 * not subdivided
 * Azov Governorate (Азовская губерния)
 * subdivided into 5 provinces:
 * Bakhmut Province (Бахмутская провинция)
 * Shatsk Province (Шацкая провинция)
 * Tambov Province (Тамбовская провинция)
 * Voronezh Province (Воронежская провинция)
 * Yeletsk Province (Елецкая провинция)
 * Kazan Governorate (Казанская губерния)
 * subdivided into 4 provinces:
 * Kazan Province (Казанская провинция)
 * Penza Province (Пензенская провинция)
 * Sviyaga Province (Свияжская провинция)
 * Ufa Province (Уфимская провинция)
 * Kiev Governorate (Киевская губерния)
 * subdivided into 4 provinces:
 * Belgorod Province (Белгородская провинция)
 * Kiev Province (Киевская провинция)
 * Oryol Province (Орловская провинция)
 * Sevsk Province (Севская провинция)
 * Moscow Governorate (Московская губерния)
 * subdivided into 9 provinces:
 * Kaluga Province (Калужская провинция)
 * Kostroma Province (Костромская провинция)
 * Moscow Province (Московская провинция)
 * Pereyaslavl-Ryazan Province (Переяславль-Рязанская провинция)
 * Pereyaslavl-Zalessk Province (Переяславско-Залесская провинция)
 * Suzdal Province (Суздальская провинция)
 * Tula Province (Тульская провинция)
 * Vladimir Province (Владимирская провинция)
 * Yuryevo-Polsk Province (Юрьево-Польская провинция)
 * Nizhny Novgorod Governorate (Нижегородская губерния)
 * subdivided into 3 provinces:
 * Alatyr Province (Алатырская провинция)
 * Arzamas Province (Арзамасская провинция)
 * Nizhny Novgorod Province (Нижегородская провинция)
 * Revel Governorate (Ревельская губерния)
 * not subdivided
 * Riga Governorate (Рижская губерния)
 * subdivided into 2 provinces:
 * Riga Province (Рижская провинция)
 * Smolensk Province (Смоленская провинция)
 * St. Petersburg Governorate (Санкт-Петербургская губерния)
 * subdivided into 11 provinces:
 * Belozersk Province (Белозерская провинция)
 * Narva Province (Нарвская провинция)
 * Novgorod Province (Новгородская провинция)
 * Petersburg Province (Петербургская провинция)
 * Poshekhonye Province (Пошехонская провинция)
 * Pskov Province (Псковская провинция)
 * Tver Province (Тверская провинция)
 * Uglich Province (Угличская провинция)
 * Velikiye Luki Province (Великолуцкая провинция)
 * Vyborg Province (Выборгская провинция)
 * Yaroslavl Province (Ярославская провинция)
 * Siberian Governorate (Сибирская губерния)
 * subdivided into 5 provinces:
 * Irkutsk Province (Иркутская провинция)
 * Sol-Kamsk Province (Соль-Камская провинция)
 * Tobolsk Province (Тобольская провинция)
 * Vyatka Province (Вятская провинция)
 * Yenisei Province (Енисейская провинция)