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User talk:Walter Görlitz/Archived Talk to 2009-12

Thanks for the help2
Thank you, User:Nadia Kittel

Thanks for the help1
I am new to Wikiedia, and created a new article named "Spirit Body". I just noticed that you moved that article from the title (with quotes) "Spirit Body" to Spirit Body, without the quotes. I now see what the error was. I did not take note of it at first. What occurred is that I conducted a search of that name, using quotes to signify an exact name search. Once I saw that no other similar entry was made, I click the "Creating the article" link and it automatically included the quotes in the title. At least now I know what to do next time, thanks.

If there are ay other suggestions, I would appreciate it.

Mwarbinek 07:30, 12 April 2006 (UTC)Mwarbinek

Hi Walter
say, just to let you know that wikipedia lets you append letters to the end of a wiki link. usually this is for the purpose of linking to a subject with a title that is in the singular but the reference in the text is plural. an example is martyrs, so you don't have to type martyrs] for simply pluralizing most words. i dunno if it's contrary to wikipedia style, but it also works for [[martyred instead of martyred. (press "edit" to see what i typed.)	 so some of those hanges made to Mennonite were superfluous. no big deal. just thought i'd let you know. r b-j 20:09, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

hi, i would like to thank you for your advice. safwaan --Safz 16:48, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Era names
Please see Manual of Style (dates and numbers):
 * "Both the BCE/CE era names and the BC/AD era names are acceptable, but be consistent within an article."

at is the official guidance, the official style, the standard that you refer to. Furthermore, community consensus has agreed that stylistic choices should be respected and not changed; it is rude to change the acceptable style choice made by another editor. This is just like how no uniformity is required in British vs. American English across articles, just within articles; it is also not acceptable to go around changing spellings from one to another when both are acceptable. The CPU usage is de minimis and irrelevant. - Bantman 22:15, 13 October 2005 (UTC)

Walter, The Manual of Style (main page) states "The consensus of many editors formed the conventions described here. Wikipedia articles should heed these rules." The previous quote I gave you from a subsection of the Manual of Style speaks to the acceptability of both alternatives. There is no community consensus on whether BC/AD or BCE/CE should be preferred as a rule; that is why the Manual of tyle allows both. In such cases, the general rule is to defer to the most recent main editor of thearticle, as it is a stylistic choice and nothing is gained by pushing one option over another. The talk page does not reach consensus on whether BC/AD or BCE/CE is better; it reaches consensus that on the diamond article, BCE/CE should be maintained. The community consensus right now stands at "agree to disagree"; i.e. nobody should change one to the other merely to promote their favored alternative. This is similar tothe previous analogy I pointed out to British versus American spelling; for example metre as an article on the unit of length, while meter points to a disambiguation page. This does not mean that all instances of meter should be changed to metre; instead it recognizes that boh alternatives are acceptable, but since we don't want duplicate articles, one must have the artile and the other must be a redirect. BC/AD and BCE/CE are similar; both are acceptable alternaives, but due to technical considerations one must be the article and one must be the redirect. Please refer to th Manual of Style for guidance on what styles are "Wikipedia policy", and refrain from inferring fro indirect evidence (such as redirects) what styles should be. The Manual of Style has been thoroughl discussed, and is the proper place to seek guidance on style. One more note - deleting comments from your talk page makes it difficult for others to participate in theconversation or for us to go back later and see what was said; it is common courtesy to leave iscussions accessible. Of course, if you delete them they are still accessible through the page hstory, but it is much easier for everyone if you just leave them up. It is your user page though, o do as you see fit. I'm glad you have decided to stop reverting the article in question, it is as annoying for me as I'm sure it s for you! -Bantman 07:25, 14 October 2005 (UTC)

Bordeaux Mixture
Thanks for fixing he references. I ran into copper hydroxide on a random search (as is my habit) and found it gave o uses. So I fixed that (maybe not comprehensively) but saw that Bordeaux Mixture had no entry at al, and that's the more usual fungicide. But I get mixed up on notes sometimes - this kind you fixe needs single [] brackets and no vertical bar, for some reason - anyway I was lazy nd thanks! Carrionluggage 08:20, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

A Girl Like Me(I)
I moved this article to A Girl Like Me (Rihanna) and removed the speedy deletion tag. I know very little about he singer but if the album's release date is confirmed, then the article can remain a stub unti there are some more details to flesh it out. Regardless, it did not fall under any of the criteri listed in Criteria for speedy deletion, so it was ineligible to be deleted as such.  howch</span e <span style="color:#33C"ng  {chat} 22:12, 2 February 2006 (UTC

Test plan
Thanks. User:AlMac|(talk) 04:49, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Allies (band)
"Seminal" is a judgement (and is unreferenced). The Manual of Style (not only ours but just about everyone's) statesclearly that, in titles, articles, prepositions, conjunctions, etc., should not be capitalised. Thats completely independent of how other people capitalise them. Some albums and books use all capials, or no capitals, but we're not bound by that, any more than other publications are. --Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 0:06, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * 1) "Seminal" doesn't just mean "lots of bands have said that they were influenced by them". Perhaps you mean "influental".
 * 2) In any case, thos claims would have to be referenced.
 * 3) You don't seem tohave grasped the point of Wikipedia, nor of my edits here. Wikipedia isn't a place for fans andenthusiasts to come and write whatever they want, undisturbed by rules, policies, guidelines, etc. Te application of policies such as Neutral point of view isn't limited to people who know something about the subject.  Note also that you're writing for people who know nothing about the subject; if you don't explain to them why something is important, good, bad, "seminal", etc., then something's wrong. --Mel Etitis  ( Μελ Ετητης ) 10:42, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Your message was rude, boorish, and mistaken. Telling people not to edit articles in line with Wikipedia policies because they don't know about the subject is tiresomely common and wrong-headed. My edit has nothing to do with knowledge of the band or the general area, and everything to do with Wikipedia's standards concerning neutral point of view and the need for references.

I see that you're also using insulting edit summaries. Your behaviour is beginning to stray very close to the line between you and a block from editing. --Mel Etitis ( Μελ Ετητης ) 19:00, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Guidelines
Hi. Two of the things that we agree to when editing Wikipedia is that our contributions are going to be "mercilessly" edited by other contributors and that all of our contributions must be verifiable and referenced. None of us own the articles that we work on, and it us up to us as contributors to provide sources for any claim that we wish to add to an article. In addition, we as editors further commit to working together in a collegial, civil manner. This edit summary and this comment seem to indicate that the above points may not be entirely clear to you. In this particular dispute, it is original research to describe the subject of an article as "seminal" if no a reliable source has done so. Further, unreferenced information in an article may remain for a long time if no one challenges the statements, but as soon as someone does, the disputed information should be removed until properly referenced. In the future, please try to accomodate any concerns about verifiability, and take as a given that everyone here is trying to improve the articles that they are working on. Thanks for understanding. Jkelly 19:36, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Hi again. Your response suggests to me that I failed to be clear in the above explanation.  Verifiability has nothing whatsoever to do with editors.  It has to do with editing.  Further, your mention of voting makes me wonder if you are confused about how Wikipedia works.  Wikipedia is not a democracy.  I strongly suggest that you take some time to read some of the guidelines I have mentioned and linked to, especially Verifiability.  It really matters less whether a fact is true or not than whether that fact can be referenced.  It matters not at all which editor asserts it and which editor disputes it.  Jkelly 20:06, 5 February 2006 (UTC)
 * No insults were made. Simply facts. --Walter Görlitz 21:22, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Religion in Vojvodina
The article Religion in Vojvodina will be very large when I write there everything what I want, thus it will be too long to be merged with Vojvodina article, thus, I will remove the tag about merging. PANONIAN  (talk)  00:55, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, is it not long enough already? There are many shorter articles than this, and it is already too much data for the parent page. But if you think that it is not long enough, I could to expand it further with the part about monasteries. PANONIAN  (talk)  05:01, 7 February 2006 (UTC)

Differences between iTap and T9
For CSD G4 to apply it has to be essentially the same article. I compared the existing one and the deleted one and although it was similar, IMHO there were enough differences for me to consider it a new version of the same topic, thus disqualifying it from CSD. Sorry, I should have let you know about it when I removed the speedy tag. I'm usually more diligent about it, but there was a huge backlog of speedy deletions that day and I guess I just forgot.  howch e  ng   {chat} 07:27, 8 February 2006 (UTC)

Miguel Pérez Alvarado
Please tag non-english articles with notenglish instead of nominating them for speedy deletion. - Mgm|(talk) 13:46, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * The page in question is a speedy delete in any language. --Walter Görlitz 18:10, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Having just translated the page into English, I can assure that it doesn't fulfill any of the speedy deletion criteria. --Nick Boalch?!? 20:21, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Being a published author and having won an award is an assertion of notability. So it doesn't fit any speedy deletion criterion. The point I was trying to make is that we can't judge that without translating it. If you still think it's not notable, feel free to push it through WP:AFD. If you're right, and the community agrees, I'd be happy to delete it for you. - Mgm|(talk) 21:48, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

 * You may have translated it, but if you don't post the translation, it's very hard for others to see and agree with your judgement of the article. Next time you translate something, just post it, so it's clear for everyone whether it fits a speedy criterion. If do that, I don't have any reason to bug you about it :) - Mgm|(talk) 08:56, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Hurmuzgan poet
Translation is by myself, I know there are many grammatic English falses.

 D iyako Talk + 16:45, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

The Sell Outs
Hey. Don't remove AFD tags to add speedy delete tags. You can leave them both there, but the AfD tag needs to stay there until the debate is closed. NickelShoe (Talk) 05:21, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Hey. Don't use two spaces after your punctuation. I deleted it because it should not have been there it should have been a speedy. Why did you delete the speedy delete? --Walter Görlitz 05:54, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Removing the AfD tag doesn't stop the debate. You should never do it, because it orphans the discussion.  I didn't delete the speedy.  Check the page history, dude. NickelShoe (Talk) 06:00, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Fine. --Walter Görlitz 06:01, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I wasn't trying to stop the debate, I was trying to have the page deleted quickly. There was no debate on the AFD page so there wasn't any harm done. I checked before I removed it and I just checked now. Get over it. --Walter Görlitz 06:04, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Articles for deletion/The Sell Outs. NickelShoe (Talk) 06:07, 24 March 2006 (UTC)
 * WP:MOS.  NickelShoe (Talk) 06:13, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Switchfoot
T-Rex, phil, and I are all thoroughly fed up with this big dispute, and we're willing to just drop the subject. The "Switchfoot and Christian music" has been rewritten extensively, and I don't see how it can get any less POV. Now if its fine with you, I'm ready to make a Switchfoot talk archive, including the pages-long discussion on this subject, so we're just waiting for your okay. I speak for all of us — truce? —Akrabbim 23:53, 2 April 2006 (UTC)

speedying articles
G'day Walter,

we've had this discussion before. I had kinda hoped that you'd learn from it, but, oh, well.

Right at the top of WP:MUSIC are the following words:
 * Important note: This is NOT a criterion for speedy deletion. The fact that an article does not meet guidelines on this page does not necessarily mean it qualifies for speedy deletion, as a mere claim of notability (even if contested) may avoid deletion under A7.

Now, for Routine Therapy, you may have a point ... but they managed to write two EPs, which is more than most of the band articles we get here can claim. As for The Fever, they've toured with two major indie bands, and released two full albums and an EP. I'm not even convinced they don't pass WP:MUSIC (though I won't remove the PROD tag just yet) — they're definitely not speedy deletable.

Are you allergic to AfD or something? Don't tag articles for speedy deletion just because you want them deleted (even if they aren't speediable), and don't get upset when the bloke whose job it is to delete stuff that's speediable won't delete them. fuddlemark (fuddle me!) 00:12, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

Please be more careful
and don't delete lots of useful information like here. Thank you, Kusma (討論) 00:29, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Finally, someone else who has been having the same problems! I have the same problem -- Firefox 1.5.0.2/3 on both Linux and Windows does this to me. Do you have any extensions? dewet|✉ 20:53, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Its very odd; it happens on a regular basis to me, but only for about two-three weeks now. I wish I could pinpoint it.  I also run a number of extensions, but I'm unsure whether that's the actual problem.  I'll try starting firefox in safe mode to see if it goes away.  Thanks, dewet|✉ 21:25, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Do/did you use FasterFox by any chance? I've switched to a clean profile, and started enabling extensions one-by-one.  I'm trying to find some correlation.  dewet|✉ 15:04, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

German Exonyms (Latvia) delete proposal
Hello,

I was just wondering why you objected to the List of German exonyms for places in Latvia page. While I agreed that this information should be copied to the German and Latvian wikipedias as well, I don't quite see why it shouldn't be included on the English language Wikipedia. There are a great many other pages like this on the English Wikipedia and no one has objected to them either. Travelbird 00:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

Good edit
Nice catch on Missing Epistle of Jude, et al. Thanks! I'd invite you to go through other texts on Lost books of the Old Testament to make a similar edit. --The Editrix 18:04, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

EMCA
Hello there, I just wanted to say thanks for fixing the vandalism at East Coast Music Award. Somewhat belated but nonetheless appreciated =) {{User:Consequencefree/Sig}} 08:43, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Indoor bocce - why merge?
Have you read the article? It says that Indoor bocce (not the article) was created August 25, 2006. So it is a sport 5 days old. And it also says it gained popularity worldwide. It contradcts itself. It is either patent nonsense, or it is a vanity of someone who created some new version of the sport. But I do not see any valid reason for merging it. That is why I removed the merge tag. I believed (and I still believe) that you overlooked the date mentioned in it. --Jan Smolik 18:58, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Respectfully disgaree about Raid (band)
I'm not sure where the article "asserts notability" for the band, but you're the admin. --Walter Görlitz 04:31, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
 * "Raid pioneered the Vegan straight edgemovement" along with an EP is an assertion of notability. Me removing speedy doesn't mean it would survive AFD but, with links like this, AFD wouldn't be a slam dunk either. —Wknight94 (talk) 04:42, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

Software Testing Certification
Im not sure why you have deleted the certifications details[] that I have posted. The motive behind choosing only those certifications is that they are of indistry standard and they are defining software testing these days. I have created that list on my own and they were not copied fron anywhere else. If possible please review them again. Digitalfunda 09:16, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

figures on certification
Hi Walter, I saw your comments here Digitalfunda about "fewer than 40% of testers world wide report to having any certification (see tha annual stickyminds/better software salary and industry review for further details)" - Can you name this please? As you can see on my website about certification I have some info, which says that it is even less (only 24%) - same source but from January 2006, but perhaps you have newer material from the same source? --Erkan Yilmaz 12:35, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

Winnipeg
Walter: Thanks for your support, but this isn't a vote. If you disagree with the "speedy deletion" notice on the main article, you should remove it. (I'm not allowed to do it myself.) CJCurrie 05:36, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

This isn't an afd -- it's a speedy deletion notice. There's actually a big difference: anyone have take down a speedy notice if they think it's inappropriate. CJCurrie 05:46, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I dont really see the point in a civic election thread unless there is a reason why it is otherwise notable, even for a major city. Doubly so given this article is lacking any context what-so-ever.  However, I will give it a chance.  As I noted in the talk page, I may take it to AfD in the future to see if the community believes there is value to civic election articles. Resolute 06:01, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Ad hoc testing
Hi Walter. Actually, the description I wrote was intended as a neutral description of ad hoc testing. I'm confident that most exploratory testers don't see ad hoc and exploratory testing as synonyms. Ad hoc testing + documentation + planning for next tests = more formal exploratory testing. If we are to describe another view it would be something like "ad hoc testing is sloppy and careless and should never be performed by professionals". I think this view isn't neutral, and shouldn't be included in the article.

So I think your section can be merged with the existing and/or added to the exploratory testing article. Epim 14:49, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

"No my information can't be merged with what you wrote since they are divergent ideas on the term. Please don't try. --Walter Görlitz 15:37, 2 November 2006 (UTC)"

I think our views are similar. I agree with all you wrote, I only think that some parts belong to the exploratory testing article. The difference is that I think that ad hoc testing is a subset of exploratory testing, while you think they are the same. The concept of exploratory testing has grown the last 15 years, so even if the terms were very similar some time ago, they aren't now. The referenced article "Ad Hoc Software Testing" covers this well. I think that the 2 articles on Wikipedia should be different and complementary. Epim 14:54, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

 * It's not that I think that ad hoc and exploratory testing are the same thing, rather the context sensitive school state that they are the same thing. --Walter Görlitz 19:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

 * The Context-Driven School of Testing coined the term exploratory testing, and they derived some key concepts from what used to be called ad hoc testing.
 * They do not state that the terms are synonyms.
 * There is one sentence in Bachs article that could be misunderstood in this way: "Exploratory testing is also known as ad hoc testing." The referenced article "Ad Hoc Software Testing" was presented at a forum with several members of the Context-Driven School, so that paper should cover their opinion well. Epim 14:58, 18 November 2006 (UTC)
 * Epim 10:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for fixing my syntax errors on the "Jewish right" page!
I just wanted to say thank you for helping out with the Jewish right page and cleaning up the errors. It is getting late at night and time to get some sleep.--Son of More 07:08, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Leet edit
Walter, I did not delete that section. I added a footnote to it. Ctrl-Alt-Dimension (Ragdoll) deleted the section. I restored the text in a way I thought would answer Ragdoll's objection, and Ragdoll deleted it again for a different reason. At this point our discussion is sitting in Talk:Leet waiting for other people to comment; so far no-one has. Please do add your comment there on the topic of restoring the information. That may help resolve the impasse. Thank you! – SAJordan talkcontribs 07:55, 17 Nov 2006 (UTC).

Casey dick
Hi, I've taken this to AfD, here, for the reasons noted at the AfD page. Please feel free to leave your comments there, or on my talk page. :) Daveydw ee b ( chat/review! ) 14:14, 4 December 2006 (UTC)

Windows "Fiji"
Sorry for copying an article directly in to Wikipedia. I am a new user and was not used to the rules. I have now re-written my own version.

Apology
I realize that I have been a mean, nasty jerk. Not that you've been the nicest, either, but yes, I call myself a 'believer' but haven't been acting like it. I'll do better.Hizzyhutch 14:34, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

NPWatcher - re comments
Sir, thanks for your comments on my talk page. I appreciate the point, and I'm sorry for the mistake - having seen several definite non-notables in a row, I got a little bit snap-happy with them. I'm proceeding with a great deal more caution. Kind regards, Chrisd87 22:50, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Round Earth Theatre Company
I have added a "" template to the article Round Earth Theatre Company, suggesting that it be deleted according to the proposed deletion process. All contributions are appreciated, but I don't believe it satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion, and I've explained why in the deletion notice (see also "What Wikipedia is not" and Wikipedia's deletion policy). Please either work to improve the article if the topic is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, or, if you disagree with the notice, discuss the issues at its talk page. Removing the deletion notice will prevent deletion through the proposed deletion process, but the article may still be sent to Articles for Deletion, where it may be deleted if consensus to delete is reached, or if it matches any of the speedy deletion criteria. Jerry lavoie 17:27, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

Reply concerning Jerusalem (band)
At the time, I was preoccupied with removing a spurious speedy tag from another band named "Jerusalem" and doing the natural thing under the circumstances: making Jerusalem (band) into a disambiguation page. In the process I forgot to check the links to the Swedish band.

You are welcome to fix those links yourself. Reverting the work I did, as you threaten to do, would clearly be disruptive. Under other circumstances, I would probably have been willing to help you out with this, but your calling my work "stupid" has removed any inclination I may possibly have had to do so. up◦land 13:38, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Mastedon and Mastodon
if someone misspells "mastedon" they will realise they misspelled it when they see the BIG title saying MASTEDON. --Dexter prog 18:06, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

CSD
Why the SD for Belief (disambiguation) ? -Ste|vertigo 06:40, 15 January 2007 (UTC)

Why did you remove the category template Transportation in Edmonton?
I'd like to know why the category template has been removed and subsequently disabled. There should be a valid reason for doing so, otherwise, I will consider this action an act of vandalism. NorthernFire 02:06, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Please forgive me on this, and I do have to apologize if I seemed rude. I just got your response regarding this. Thank you for your acknowledgment on this and I will keep that in mind from now on. NorthernFire 07:35, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
 * About the last message you sent me - thanks. :) NorthernFire 01:41, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Switchfoot GA

Canadian magazines
There already is one. A list and a category aren't necessarily supposed to serve the same purpose. Bearcat 07:54, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Canada's Food Guide to Healthy Eating
Neither of the above. I either forgot, or thought I had checked but did it wrong. The last I remember was looking for simple, step-by-step instructions and not easily finding any. I apologize for leaving the double redirects and thank you for fixing them. Do you know where to find instructions on how to check for double redirects? I think I followed these directions from Help:Moving a page: "Always check the What links here for your page, and if there are multiple levels of redirects, go fix the links to point to the new location directly." I thought I saw some direct links, and some pages indented which would be redirects, and nothing indented twice as far which would be double redirects. I don't remember very clearly. I may have used the wrong method, or I may have made a mistake in how I applied it. I'd prefer to have instructions that explain what double redirects will look like in the "what links here" page. If I find out, I may write the instructions (which will then come in handy next time I move a page). Sorry again for taking up your time with this. --Coppertwig 05:51, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

I think maybe I see what my mistake was. Maybe there were no direct links, because the page had just been moved. So what I thought were direct links were the list of single-redirects, and the ones indented once in comparison to those were actually double-redirects, but I thought they were single-redirects. --Coppertwig 05:56, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

OK, that's probably wrong, too. What do double-redirects look like on the "What links here" page? --Coppertwig 06:19, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your reply on my talk page. I think I understand it now.  I've just written the instructions Redirect.  Note Redirect;  article pages linking to redirect pages don't need to be fixed.  --Coppertwig 13:30, 18 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I stand corrected. It was useful and more-or-less necessary (as well as permissible, which I always thought) for the links to be changed as you did.  (I read the discussion at Wikipedia talk:Redirect.)  Thank you for doing that.  The links as computer code (left-hand side of a link divided by a pipe) don't generally need to be changed, but in this case, the right-hand-side, which displays in the articles, did need to be updated to show the new proper name assigned by the government.  I'll try to do better next time I move a page.  --Coppertwig 02:50, 19 February 2007 (UTC)

PROD
You may have confused "Proposed deletion" with "Articles for deletion." Proposed deletion is a process for attempting to delete an article without discussion. No discussion is taking place about Mgmbill. And anyone, including non-admins, even the original author, can stop the proposed deletion by removing the tag. That's how you're supposed to do it. The remover doesn't even have to provide a reason, though I always try to. It is speedy and AfD tags that are not to be removed. Review WP:PROD if you need to.

It sounds like what you want is an AfD. In that case, see WP:AFD for directions, and participate in the ensuing discussion. Mgmbill may very well lack the necessary notability to survive an AfD, my removal was procedural rather than a judgment on notability. -- Groggy Dice T | C 16:33, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

AFD
You seem to have left comments on the WP:AFD page under the Sean D'Anconia heading. I think you might have been mistaken, as the article I nominated for deletion has nothing to do with Mgmbill. Could you have a look for me and see if you could straighten it out? Thanks. beekman 19:50, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

It seems that one of the admins moved your comments to the appropriate areas, and everything was cleaned up. That page can get kind of crazy with edit conflicts. Sorry for any confusion this may have caused. beekman 20:22, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Aminopterin
Sorry about the issue on the Canadian status of aminopterin. I put it there out of a desire to find a comparable source to the EPA doc I found for the US. I will admit my knowledge of the Canadian equivalents of the EPA/FDA/etc. is limited. My initial attempts trying to use Google.ca to search only Canadian sites for this info did not meet with much success.

In any case, I certainly didn't mean to imply what you had originally added to the article was wrong. Thanks for cleaning it up. --Dfred 17:31, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

C-NoEviL
I created a page for hip hop record producer "C-NoEviL." I believe you have a mark on the page, indicatin that the page doesn't confirm he is a record producer. Please refer to the references, external links, and the internet in full before you make a wrong decision and try to delete the page. All of the information is accurate. Also, refer to existing pages, links, and other information in regards to C-NoEviL; the page was created over a month ago and was "cleared" by Wikipedia standards. I was updating some information on it today, but it cancelled out the page and therefore I had to create the page again. Nothing is wrong with it.

thank you,

Jgray11

Deleted page - C-NoEviL
To your comment: Then wouldn't you leave that as a note on the page instead of just flat out deleting it? Why would the page I created over a month ago be fine, that I accidentally take off the information, put it right back and all of a sudden you delete it? That doesn't make sense!? I'll research and get it right but a little more helpful info would be great!

jgray11

Varieties of English
Hello there! Thanks for all your contributions to Wikipedia! I appreciate it. I want to make a quick point about different forms of English in Wikipedia. Recently there have been a number of changes back and forth to the article Mennonite in regard to the word "labour"/"labor". Wikipedia policy states that unless there is a significant reason to change the form of a word from British to American spellings, then the spelling should be as originally written. Significant reasons can deal with the following issues:
 * Articles should use the same spelling system and grammatical conventions throughout.
 * If there is a strong tie to a specific region/dialect, use that dialect.
 * Try to find words that are common to all.
 * Stay with established spelling.
 * Follow the dialect of the first contributor.

For details on each of these points, please see WP:ENGVAR.

In the case of the Mennonite article, the spelling was originally given as "labor". The most appropriate policy applying here states that "If an article has been in a given dialect for a long time, and there is no clear reason to change it, leave it alone. Editors should not change the spelling used in an article wholesale from one variant to another, unless there is a compelling reason to do so (which will rarely be the case). Other editors are justified in reverting such changes. Fixing inconsistencies in the spelling is always appreciated."

Thus, in this case, whether "labour" can be considered an "international" form of the word is irrelevant. Labor is a valid spelling and, according to policy, should be used here.

Let me know if you take issue with what I say, have any questions, etc. Thanks for being a part of Wikipedia!!! I am sure you love this place as much as I do :) JeffreyN 04:36, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Fair enough. For my part, I was referring to the context of the whole article, which is neither American specific or specific to any other geographic area. I don't really care which way it is spelt :) as long as Wikipedia policies are observed. Originally, your edit summary "Wikipedia isn't American so we'll keep it with the 'international' English spelling as the original editor wrote it" confused me and, to be honest, offended me a little bit (does that make sense? This is not meant as an attack, just an explanation of what I saw and interpreted). The edit summary indicated to me that your reasons were not in line with Wikipedia policy; however, your new reasoning as described holds water to me. I have no problem leaving it as "labour"! Thank you for explaining your logic and being diplomatic about all this. I appreciate it. Please respond and let me know if this all makes sense to you. JeffreyN 04:58, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Keaggy / Cassar-Daley True Believer albums
Thanks for your tirade on my talk page. I fix up mistakes by other people here all the time - in fact when I made that one I was fixing up four articles recently created by someone else with incorrect names. I always fix double redirects, however since it was 1am when I made the edit I forgot that one of the redirects was to a disambiguation page. In this case, adding a note to the top would not have been appropriate, as each album was of equal significance - while it would have been more convenient, it wouldn't have been correct. In any case, I also found one that you missed at Wade Jaynes and have fixed that.

It is generally preferred to Assume good faith, rather than go and tell the other person they are stupid (not "not stupid"). I guess it's a good thing that it wasn't a new user making those changes because they probably would have been put off Wikipedia if yours was one of the first comments they received. -- Chuq 01:34, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Just to clarify, I never called this user stupid, nor did I imply it. I simply pointed out the problems that the user created by moving a page that had been created without cleaning up the redirects. If the user is feeling stupid, it's not my fault. --Walter Görlitz 06:45, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * It may be my computer science background but 'Not "not stupid"' implies "stupid" to me. Yes, the problem I caused was that I moved True Believer (album) to True Believer (Phil Keaggy album) when a second article about another article with the same name was created, and accidentally left ALL THREE of the links to that article pointing to the disambig page.  Yes, three.  If you really think that is the worst thing to happen on Wikipedia then I suggest you spend some time doing recent changes patrol. -- Chuq (talk) 07:55, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Again to clarify. I never called the member stupid.--Walter Görlitz 14:54, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Correct, you didn't call me that directly. You just implied it.  There was a "Not Stupid" barnstar a couple of posts above the bottom of the page and you stated "I'd like to revoke that award".  Anyway, I don't really care what you called me, I just have no idea why you decided that such a minor mistake was a reason to lambast another editor.  -- Chuq (talk) 14:56, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 * The editor was reading too much into the comment. I was simply commenting that the user did not deserver the "stellar" award that was given. I didn't bother to read the title of the award. --Walter Görlitz 14:52, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

The Twilight Sad
I think the independent review from Pitchfork Media is enough to avoid speedy deletion, at least. I'd be more comfortable if you sent this to AFD. Thanks, NawlinWiki 01:08, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I've referenced 2 reviews of different releases by the band on the talk page. I'm unsure how to include these in the article, however, but I do believe that this band meets the notability criteria. Thanks.--Sparklism 12:17, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Free The Hops
I've renominated Free The Hops for deletion and hope you can comment. -- Rob C (Alarob) 04:25, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

Welcome to Wikipedia. Although we invite everyone to contribute constructively to our encyclopedia, at least one of your recent edits was not constructive and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any test edits you would like to make, and take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia. — User: (talk • contribs • count) 20:05, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Regarding edits made during August 20 2007 (UTC)
Hello. Before making potentially controversial edits, it is recommended that you discuss them first on the article's talk page. Otherwise, people might consider your edits to be vandalism. Thank you. — User: (talk • contribs • count) 20:08, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Please cite your edits rather than pass them off as true just because you say they are. Controversial edits such as yours should be discussed first on the talk page.  — User: (talk • contribs • count) 20:12, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry. You want me to cite removal of vandalism and misinformation? --Walter Görlitz 20:13, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Try to at least provide a reason why you believe the information is inaccurate or biased. Otherwise, it might appear as vandalism to people like me.  — User: (talk • contribs • count) 20:15, 20 August 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, go ahead then. — User: (talk • contribs • count) 20:23, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

stub section in Software Testing
hmm - why? I gave a reason, which you did not: 20:39, January 6, 2009 (hist) (diff) Software testing (Undid revision 262306073 by Tedickey Tedickey (talk) 20:50, 6 January 2009 (UTC)

Switchfoot "obscure" awards.
Ok, let's address your arguments point by point.

1. "All of the awards are obscure. They're all gone. Thanks for setting the standard."

My first response is that, NO, the awards listed currently are not obscure. ASCAP and GMA are two major organizations. ASCAP is the big-time "American Society of Composers, Authors and Publishers," and GMA is the "Gospel Music Association." The San Diego Music awards are also highly respected by music critics nationwide because of the eclectic and thriving music scene in that town (thus, it has its very own wiki article). Awards with Wikipedia articles generally are not "obscure." These awards are still around, they are not CLOSE to being gone, and no, I set no standard. The standard was set before I even made my first edit on wikipedia!

2. "Just because you don't know an award doesn't make it obscure. You need a much better definition of which awards should be kept and which should not."

First off, I DO know which awards were being posted up on the awards section, I'm not stupid. The "This Is Home" award that was posted was NOT a Dove Award, it was a small Gospel Music TV award... therefore, it certainly didn't belong there. Oh, Switchfoot won NO Dove Awards this past year by the way!

Secondly, the added random Australian song of the year award is NOT major... it's based on Christian Australian radio station's airplay. Last time I checked, artists and bands don't get real awards for getting the most plays on radio. Maybe recognition as a "song of the year" or something, but no real awards. Perhaps next time, you can do your research before jumping to conclusions. Thanks. Joberooni (talk) 06:33, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

Functionality
I so hate that word. What's wrong with just saying function?

I also think I changed it in more than one place. :)

SimonTrew (talk) 17:55, 11 March 2009 (UTC)

In two months you have not said why it is wrong to say function instead of functionality, before my immediate reply that there is a difference. SimonTrew (talk) 18:01, 12 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Not true. See User_talk:SimonTrew. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:48, 12 May 2009 (UTC)

Nobody's Fault but Mine
Who cares if The 77's give credit to Johnson. Many people haven't even heard of The 77's. It's a trivial non-notable event. The whole edit warring on the article has been nothing but disruptive. MegX (talk) 07:25, 16 March 2009 (UTC)
 * The 77's and you are incorrect. The song is traditional. Johnson may have recorded a version but he did not write the song. The Grateful Dead credited it as "traditonal" not to Johnson, and since the song is public domain the claim Led Zeppelin stole it can not be proven in court as no-one actually owns it. And lets do bring this to a vote. Given the number of editors you've warred with over this I suspect you might not get the support you claim. MegX (talk) 00:11, 17 March 2009 (UTC)

Re: Teitur Thordarson
There is absolutely no guideline even advising the use of only 26 characters in the English alphabet. Also, see Ayumi Hamasaki for an example of a foreign-language FA that uses the appropriate infobox. Admiral Norton (talk) 16:35, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Although I don't like the way the request turned out, I'm not disputing the move, I'm disputing the contents of the infobox, which IMO should be the way they are in the FA article I presented as an example if we stick to the "English" version of the name. Admiral Norton (talk) 18:35, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Just FYI, I'm an admin, so I might just go and argue with myself and change that infobox, but I don't really care any more. Good night. Admiral Norton (talk) 23:26, 16 March 2009 (UTC)

Wikiquette
A comment has been left on the Wikiquette page regarding Talk:Nobody's Fault but Mine discussion. MegX (talk) 00:07, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Whitecaps merge proposal
FYI, Cmjc80's close of the merge proposal was not "vandalism". While it may be a good idea to request an admin to close a merge discussion if it is contentious, it does not have to be an admin who closes it. Anyway, I have now closed it as there is no apparent consensus for a merge. In addition, I have reverted your edit to Cmjc80's user page; he/she is under no obligation to create a page. --Ckatz chat spy  06:55, 14 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Walter, that's not it at all... there had not been any discussion since March 27, and there was no apparent consensus to merge. Perhaps Cmjc80 should have requested outside advice, but the fact that he closed it after 17 days of inactivity is not comparable to your stated intent to "close merger discussions that I feel are not going the way I like". --Ckatz chat spy  23:16, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Talkback
Added a bit about functionality (and thanks for your reply) SimonTrew (talk) 22:36, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Contemporary Christian Music
I was looking at the Adult contemporary article and someone had made that addition. I thought it was useful in that Christian music seems to be divided up into several different styles. I suppose most of the stations would fit under "Christian AC". But from what I'm reading there's something new called "Christian CHR".

I'll go back to the other article and see what needs to be done there. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 17:49, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

Okay, it's at the end of this section. To be fair, if you do it to me, you should do it to this person too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adult_contemporary_music#History_and_evolution_of_the_format Vchimpanzee  ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 17:52, 29 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Fine with me. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 04:13, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

I would rather have kept both articles the way they were. I'm not reverting this person just because you say it's wrong, but I can use your edit summary to make changes.You seem to know this music. I take the attitude that we should all be listening to the music of Germans who died 200 years ago. Nevertheless, when I know stuff but can't pinpoint a source Wikipedia would accept, I make the necessary additions. Vchimpanzee ·  talk  ·  contributions  · 15:19, 30 May 2009 (UTC)

On the whole Good Charlotte thing
you asked Good Who? lol, actually Good Charlotte is a very famous alternative rock group (At least to modern day teenagers like myself). And I don't know if all the members are Christian, but I do know that both the the lead singer and the rythym guitarist/backing vocalist in the band (identical twins Joel & Benji Madden) come from a very religious background. Also, the band refers to God in many of there songs, and even has two songs (We Believe and The River) that have Christian themes (look up the lyrics to the two songs and you will understand). Take care, and God Bless. --Mr. Comedian (talk) 13:45, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Jesus Music
''I restored the "expanded list of CCM artists who were never considered to produce Jesus Music but Contemporary Christian Music" since they all created Jesus music and are important to the article. Granted, Sweet Comfort Band is definitely a late entry in the list, they were very evident in the mid-seventies at Calvary Chapel. If you want to discuss each artist individually, we can do it on the article's talk page. I left your festivals paragraph though. Thanks. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:22, 25 June 2009 (UTC)''

 * The problem here is that Jesus Music happened during a specific time period *before* Contemporary Christian Music came along. Pretty much every one of the bands listed in the section I deleted were/are considered CCM, *not* Jesus Music.  When you start adding jazz-fusion, country rock and hard rock to the mix, you have gone into CCM and completely strayed from Jesus music (and the type of music is even denoted in the paragraph above the one you restored).  It was the evolution of the music and the genre that caused the term CCM to be coined - the time period for what was truly called Jesus Music was a small window in comparison to what you are attempting here.  Not only that, but you have bands in that grouping who were definitely considered (by those in the business as well as themselves) to be CCM, and not Jesus music.  Along with removing the "it was immature" POV comments, I am restoring it back to what it was when I went to bed last night.  The section on those bands you listed would be much more appropriate in the article on Contemporary Christian Music - why not work it in there? SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 16:23, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

''You are wrong. The page has been edited and reviewed by many experts. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)''

 * Really? *Which* "experts" are those?  Do you have names?  And from where did they receive their "Jesus music/CCM Expert" credntials? SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 20:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I added references and cited peer review on the article's talk page. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

''The artists you removed were in existence during the time of the Jesus movement. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)''

 * Well...of course they were "in existence" (I didn't imagine them as infants playing and singing onstage) - but were they actually a part of the Jesus movement and performing Jesus music prior to the genre's morph into CCM *as* the groups you listed?SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 20:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I added references and cited proof that they were in existence as bands during the era of JM on the article's talk page. Your suggestion that I was implying that they were alive is an attempt to discount my claim by reducing it to the absurd. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

''Their early albums all have "file under Jesus music" on their spines. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)''

 * Really? Where is the evidence of that claim?  Do you have a refernece or references you can cite to back this up?  And if so, were those labels placed appropriately?SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 20:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * The evidence is right here in my music collection, and in the collection of many others. If I didn't write that "File Under Jesus Music" was written on the spines of the albums, I'm sorry. It was common practise during that era. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

''Please do what asked and discuss this on the article's talk page. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)''

 * Who asked that and when?SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 20:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I asked. When I reverted your edits. In the summary comments. I asked you to make all further discussion on the talk page of the article. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

''I will provide album scans to prove my point. Do not touch the list of artists until you have vetted your reduced list through the talk page, citing why each artist should be removed and I will do the same. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)''

 * Excuse me, but are you a Wikipedia administrator? If not, don't presume you have a right to tell me what to do in Wikipedia.SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 20:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Sorry. didn't mean to imply that I was an admin. However, when you go in and harshly edit an article like this--one on which I've worked for a while--without fully understanding the reason that the article is the way it is, it's upsetting. In fact, Wikipedia's policy is to edit hard, but you have to take into account that in this instance, you were inserting opinion on the bands and musicians who were listed. One that did not fit the facts. While we must present evidence when we add new material, apparently deleting material doesn't require citations. That's wrong. That's why you should talk about your evidence on the article's talk page. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

''A have specialized in Jesus music and early CCM. I know the difference. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)''

 * It would appear otherwise. I have also "specialized" (if that is what you want to call it) in Jesus music and CCM - not just because I experienced it when it actually occurred, but also because I have been a participant as a professional musician within the genre.SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 20:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

''I know who was in each group. I know who did and didn't make the transitions. Please don't try to teach me what you don't know, it's really condescending and rude. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)''

 * You mean like you are being right now? Sorry, but since I'm not behaving as you are, I can safely say that I am not being "condescending and rude".SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 20:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * No. I meant more like you were being when you made your edit summary comments. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

''You haven't been around for the four years that I've been editing that article and I don't appreciate your deletions. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)''

 * Is there some rule in Wikipedia I am not aware of that states an editor can claim ownership of an article? If there is, I must have missed it.SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 20:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

''Missing the point of the article doesn't mean that I think you're immature, you're just missing the point. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)''

 * When I said "immature", I was referring to a POV statement within the article, not something you said or possibly implied.SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 20:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

''A few more points. It's not 1970's, it's 1970s. It's one space after a period, not two. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 19:38, 25 June 2009 (UTC)''

 * Ad-hominem noted. So you're not being "condescending and rude", eh? SkagitRiverQueen (talk) 20:31, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

 * I have ignored the remainder of your attacks. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:36, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

edit-war over "lyrically and musically simple"
Please don't edit-war or add it until there is a good cite to support the claim, so it's clear that some reliable source is saying this, not a wikipedia editor's opinion or analysis of cause/effect. OTOH, once there is a good cite, it's definitely includable and an interesting idea! DMacks (talk) 21:43, 25 June 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for File:Sheila Walsh-Future Eyes 500.jpg
Thanks for uploading or contributing to File:Sheila Walsh-Future Eyes 500.jpg. I notice the file page specifies that the file is being used under fair use but there is not a suitable explanation or rationale as to why each specific use in Wikipedia constitutes fair use. Please go to the file description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale.

If you have uploaded other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on those pages too. You can find a list of 'file' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "File" from the dropdown box. Note that any non-free media lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.  F ASTILY  (T ALK ) 23:41, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Japanese flag
That's odd... it shows up for me fine. Maybe it's an error on your computer rather than a problem with the Wiki image? --JonBroxton (talk) 20:54, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

Christian Rock
Sorry about that, I didn't really look to see what exactly was going on. Now that I looked again, you're definitly right.  Free  (talk)  (HRWiki) 20:20, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

Talk:Nobody's Fault but Mine
Do you know who the IP is that is on this crusade against you? I have protected the page for longer this time to stop it wasting any more of your, or anyone else's, time and effort. Mfield (Oi!) 23:02, 21 August 2009 (UTC)
 * Re: User:SockpuppetWG, I am not a checkuser so I can't check the IP personally. His appearance certainly does look suspicious and I will certainly keep an eye on him. If his editing pattern/behavior becomes problematic then we can open a SSP case with an associated checkuser request. Mfield (Oi!) 17:25, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

SPI
Please stop creating new cases for the same individual. You can add new accounts to the existing report here. — Jake   Wartenberg  16:26, 26 August 2009 (UTC)

White space
White space can be necessary if it improves the readability of the article, like in this case. Digirami (talk) 22:13, 28 August 2009 (UTC)
 * It has nothing to do with the browser. It has to do with the resolution of the screen. If you have a screen at 1024x768, the infobox messes how the table is supposed to look. Digirami (talk) 22:33, 28 August 2009 (UTC)

Re: Vancouver MLS 2011
To me, if a team's paid its league dues and officially been announced by the league, it's a member of that league, regardless of when it begins play. So Vancouver MLS 2011 is officially a member of Major League Soccer, it just doesn't begin active play until 2011. Just to clear it up, Tom Danson (talk) 14:46, 17 October 2009 (UTC)

Incivility warning
I am putting you on notice that you will be reported for inciviity if you continue to attempt to bully and intimidate me on my talk page. Afterwriting (talk) 16:59, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Afterwriting
Don't let User:Afterwriting get under your skin. He's not too bad of a problem overall. He's clearly lost the argument at this point and will simply get himself banned if he keeps it up. Given some of the comments I see he's getting elsewhere, it's possible he's intentionally trolling people this way, too. If he keeps this up, we can do an RfC. Sχeptomaniacχαιρετε 17:01, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

"Churches"
I didn't want to get into an edit war with you, so I'm coming here first. Seems to me that the word "churches" in that heading (on Baptism) is not a proper noun, as it is not referring to any particular church or group of churches. And technically, the word "church" transliterated "ekklesia" from the original Greek means nothing more than an assembly or gathering of people. As such, I believe the word "churches" in the section heading should not be capitalized. - Garrett W. {☎ ✍} 03:59, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

 * It is a proper noun. The [Roman] Catholics refer to themselves as The Church. Most protestants and post-reformation denominations don't take such a narrow view. I am in the latter camp and with you would prefer to see it uncapitalized, but if you look at the change history, I'm sure you'll see someone making a stink over it remaining capitalized for the reasons I gave above. If that's not the case, then I really don't mind it changing. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 10:36 pm, Today (UTC−6)

- Garrett W. {☎ ✍} 05:35, 14 December 2009 (UTC)
 * Oh, ok, I wasn't aware that had been disputed before.
 * By the way, I'd appreciate it if you'd respond to messages where they are (to keep all parts of the discussion together), or at least use my talk page rather than my main user page. Thanks!

Guidelines for References
I'm not too experienced with Wikipedia protocol, so I'm not trying to be contentious. But regarding your removal of a reference I added to contemporary worship, would that reference still be considered illegitimate if it includes content that informed a revision of the article itself? In this case, the sample job description in the "Worship Leader" resource suggested additional responsibilities that were added to the Worship Leader section of the article. Thanks either way for your help! Timbugtoo (talk) 21:35, 16 December 2009 (UTC)Timbugtoo
 * Not a problem. It actually makes more sense to discuss this on the article's talk page, but we're here now. The issue is that the resource is a $15 document. If it backs up a specific point you're making, it's best to use a tag and citation (see WP:CT). But a bare reference looks like an ad. Thanks for taking the time to talk about this. --Walter Görlitz (talk) 23:27, 16 December 2009 (UTC)

Revert on Baptism
Hello. Regarding the recent revert you made to Baptism: you may already know about them, but you might find Template messages/User talk namespace useful. After a revert, these can be placed on the user's talk page to let them know you considered their edit was inappropriate, and also direct new users towards the sandbox. Thank you. - Garrett W. {☎ ✍} 05:49, 18 December 2009 (UTC)


text:
Vicente Ferreira Pastinha

Vicente Ferreira Pastinha (April 5, 1889, Salvador, Bahia, Brazil – November 13, 1981), known as Mestre Pastinha, was a mestre of the Afro-Brazilian martial art capoeira and a codifier of the traditional capoeira Angola style.

Mestre Pastinha was a brilliant capoeirista whose game was characterized by agility, quickness and intelligence. He demonstrated that even in his seventies, he could engage in acrobatics and outperform much younger capoeiristas.

He chose not to introduce new kicks in order to preserve the original art. He wanted his students to improve the principal techniques (cabeçada, rasteira, rabo de arraia, chapa de frente, chapa de costas, meia lua and cutilada de mão), which allows a proper jogo de dentro (inner game) to develop.

Pastinha was known as the "philosopher of capoeira" because of his use of many aphorisms. He made it his mission to clearly separate capoeira Angola from the violence.

Two principal Pastinha's disciples were mestres João Pequeno and João Grande.

Life
Pastinha was born on April 5, 1889, in Salvador. Little is documented about his family background, except that his mother, Maria Eugenia Ferreira, was a black woman from Bahia, and his father, José Pastiña, was a Spanish pedlar.

Pastinha's introduction to capoeira arouse from a need for self-defense. As a somewhat frail ten-year-old, he faced bullying from a larger boy in his Rua da Laranjeira neighborhood. Witnessing his predicament, an elderly African neighbor named Benedito, native of Angola, offered to teach him capoeira. After several months of training with him, Pastinha successfully beat the bully.

He continued his training with Benedito for two more years. Pastinha's teacher apparently did not use a berimbau, but only a drum, which seems to be common in Bahian capoeira at that time.

Navy School
At the age of 12, Pastinha began his apprenticeship at the Navy School in Salvador.

During his time in the Navy, Pastinha received instruction in fencing, jack-knife techniques, and Swedish gymnastics. His musical talents also flourished under the guidance of the renowned musician Anacleto Vidal da Cunha. It is likely that he played, perhaps the horn, in the Navy orchestra. Pastinha's own accounts suggest that he even shared his knowledge of capoeira with some of his fellow sailors.

At the age of 20, in 1910, he left the Navy.

Capoeira instructor
"Capoeira is for men, women and children."

Pastinha made a living through various jobs, including shoe cleaning, newspaper sales, carpentry, and working as a casino bouncer. According to his interview, Pastinha wanted to live through the sale of his oil paintings, though this endeavor did not entirely materialize.

He established his first capoeira school in a bicycle workshop located on the Campo da Pólvora. After 1910, he began teaching capoeira to artisans and students residing in shared accommodations (repúblicas) in the surrounding neighborhood, although scant details are available about his early students.

In street rodas, Pastinha was always ready for any unforeseen circumstances. He frequently recalled that he carried a small sickle that could be affixed to the berimbau, effectively turning the instrument into a formidable weapon should a street fight arise. However, despite his initial acclaim, Pastinha completely withdrew from the practice of capoeira in the following years. According to his own writings, he withdrew from 1912 until 1941.

Capoeira Angola center
"Well, there is one thing that nobody doubts: the ones to teach capoeira to us were the negro slaves that were brought from Angola."

During the 1930s, traditional Bahian capoeira became known as capoeira de Angola, opposing Bimba's capoeira Regional. A group of old mestres held regular rodas in Gengibirra area, in black neighbourhood Liberdade, to preserve traditional style. Rodas was led by Mestre Amorzinho, a civil guard who offered protection from police harassment. According to Mestre Noronha, it was the first center for Capoeira Angola, founded by 22 mestres.

Accourding to Pastinha's account, one of his top students, Aberrê, visited Gengibirra and impressed the mestres there with skills, so they ask him for teacher. Pastinha eventually visited them on 23 February 1941:

"To my surprise, Mr. Amorzinho, the owner of that capoeira, extended his hand to me and remarked, 'I've wanted to pass on this capoeira for you to teach for quite some time.' I attempted to decline with an apology, but Mr. Antonio Maré intervened, asserting, 'There's no escaping it, Pastinha, you are the one who will be in charge of this.'"

In his memoirs, Noronha offered a slightly different version of the episode, suggesting that it was only after Amorzinho's death that the other mestres decided to pass the leadership to Pastinha. However, in 1941 Pastinha founded the Centro Esportivo de Capoeira Angola, located at the Pelourinho.

Like Bimba, Pastinha formalized capoeira practice by establishing structured classes within a dedicated "academy". Students were required to wear uniforms during both training sessions and exhibitions. The uniform designs evolved over time, drawing clear inspiration from sports jerseys. From about 1950, Pastinha adopted the colors of his favorite soccer club, Ypiranga, yellow and black, which became the hallmarks of the Angola style he taught. His goal of imparting knowledge to the 'next generation' of mestres also led to the establishment of hierarchical structures within capoeira.

"I practice the true capoeira Angola and in my school they learn to be sincere and just. That is the Angola law. I inherited it from my grandfather. It is the law of loyalty. The capoeira Angola that I learned - I did not change it here in my school… When my students go on they go on to know about everything. They know; this is fight, this is cunning. We must be calm. It is not an offensive fight. capoeira waits (…). The good capoeirista must know how to sing, play capoeira and the instruments of capoeira."

Pastinha participated with the Brazilian delegation of the "First International Festival de Artes Negras" in Dakar, Senegal (1966), bringing with him João Grande, Gato Preto, Gildo Alfinete, Roberto Satanás and Camafeu de Oxossi.

Twilight years

Pastinha worked as shoeshiner, tailor, gold prospector, security guard at a gambling house and construction worker at the Porto de Salvador to support himself financially so that he could do what he loved the most, to be an Angoleiro.

Eventually Pastinha's academy fell on hard times. Pastinha, old, sick and almost totally blind, was asked by the government to vacate his academy for renovations, but the space was never returned to him. Instead it became a restaurant and entertainment outlet. Pastinha was left abandoned in a city shelter (abrigo D. Pedro II - Salvador).

Pastinha played his last game of capoeira on April 12, 1981. He died at the age of 92 on November 13, 1981.

Two of his most learned students, João Grande and João Pequeno continued to share capoeira Angola with the world.

On capoeira
According to Pastinha, good mestre should watch the game not to become violent and not to lose rhythm: "When in the past it was violent, many mestres, and others, drew our attention when out of rhythm. They explained decently and gave us the education within the sport of capoeira. This is the reason all those who come from the past possess body game and have rhythm."

For him, capoeira Angola is not a fight for victory over an "opponent". Pastinha appealed to participants "not to aspire to fight our comrades (companions)". Capoeiristas should play:

"Without ambitions, without ill will, without disappointments, without pushing to the front to play before your turn."

Pastinha stressed that a good capoeirista should always remain calm and decent:

"The good capoeirista never gets exalted, always tries to remain calm to be able to reflect with precision and rightness. He does not quarrel with his comrades or pupils, he does not play without it being his turn, in order not to anger his companions and create squabbles."

He emphasized, in particular, the role of capoeira music and singing:

"Capoeira is only beautiful when playing and singing and only loses its beauty when people don’t sing. It is the duty of all capoeiristas. It is not a failing not to know how to sing, but it is a failing not to know how to reply, at least to the chorus."

For Pastinha, capoeira Angola is more than a simple sport but a philosophy and a sacred legacy he ardently aimed to protect. His insistence on loving capoeira Angola mirrored a deep devotion akin to religious faith. As his friend, sculptor Mário Cravo, noted, "Pastinha was a mystic because he lived capoeira with intensity and made his own interpretation of the mystic universe."

Lineage
In Capoeira Angola, lineage represents the chain of teachers (mestres) and students that define one's role in the community and shape a school's teachings. Styles evolve uniquely through various teachers who pass them on to their students. Pastinha's school in Pelourinho was influential in shaping Capoeira Angola. Many mestres in this tradition trace their lineage back to him.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Vicente Ferreira Pastinha


text:
Joseph Vendryes

Joseph Vendryes or Vendryès (13 January 1875, Paris – 30 January 1960) was a French Celtic linguist. After studying with Antoine Meillet, he was chairman of Celtic languages and literature at the École Pratique des Hautes Études. He founded the journal Études Celtiques. He was a member of the Académie des Inscriptions et Belles-Lettres and a consultant with the International Auxiliary Language Association, which standardized and presented Interlingua.

He studied the phenomenon of dislocation.

Quote

 * Le Language [...] est un acte physiologique en ce qu'il met en œuvre plusieurs organes du corps humain. C'est un acte psychologique en ce qu'il suppose l'activité volontaire de l'esprit. C'est un acte social en ce qu'il répond à un besoin de communication entre les hommes. Enfin, c'est un fait historique, attesté sous des formes très variées...
 * [Language is a physiological act since it uses many organs of the human body. It is a psychological act since it supposes the willing activity of the spirit. It is a social act since it fulfils a need for communication between men. Lastly it is a historical fact, attested under various forms...] — Le Langage, introduction linguistique à l'histoire (1921)

Published works

 * Recherches sur l'histoire et les effets de l'intensité initiale en latin (1902)
 * Traité d'accentuation grecque (1904)
 * Grammaire du vieil-irlandais (1908)
 * Le langage (1921)
 * La position linguistique du celtique (1930)
 * La Religion des Celtes (1948)
 * Choix d'études linguistiques et celtiques. Paris: Klincksieck, 1952.
 * Lexique étymologique de l'irlandais ancien (1959)

title: Joseph Vendryes


text:
Quentin Roosevelt

Quentin Roosevelt (November 19, 1897 – July 14, 1918) was the youngest son of President Theodore Roosevelt and Edith Roosevelt. Inspired by his father and siblings, he joined the United States Army Air Service where he became a pursuit pilot during World War I. He was killed in aerial combat over France on Bastille Day (July 14), 1918. He is the only child of a U.S. president to have died in combat.

Childhood

Quentin was born in Washington, D.C., the youngest child of Theodore Roosevelt's household, which included half-sister Alice, sister Ethel, and brothers Ted (Theodore III), Kermit, and Archie.

Quentin was three years old when his father became president, and he grew up in the White House. By far the favorite of all of President Roosevelt's children, Quentin was also the most rambunctious.

Quentin's behavior prompted his mother, Edith, to label him a "fine bad little boy". Amongst Quentin's many adventures with the "White House Gang" (a name assigned by T.R. to Quentin and his friends), Quentin carved a baseball diamond on the White House lawn without permission, defaced official presidential portraits in the White House with spitballs, threw snowballs from the White House's roof at unsuspecting Secret Service guards, and occasionally rode on top of the family elevator with his friend, Charlie Taft, the son of Secretary of War and future President William Howard Taft. The Secret Service were alarmed to see a fire and smoke behind the White House, only to see Quentin with a makeshift brick chimney baking some potatoes.

He quickly became known for his humorous and sometimes philosophical remarks. To a reporter trying to trap the boy into giving information about his father, Quentin admitted, "I see him occasionally, but I know nothing of his family life." The family soon learned to keep him quiet during dinner when important guests were present.

Once, when his brother Archie was terribly ill, it was Quentin (with the help of Charles Lee, a White House coachman) who brought the pony Algonquin to his room by elevator, sure that this would make his brother smile.

Education
Quentin started his education at Force Elementary School and then attended the Episcopal High School in Alexandria, Virginia. Later he was a student at the Evans School for Boys and Groton School.

Quentin consistently scored high marks and displayed the intellectual prowess of his father. He was admitted to Harvard College in 1915. By the time Quentin was a sophomore at Harvard, also like his father, he was showing promise as a writer. Quentin was posthumously awarded an A.B. (War Degree) by Harvard, Class of 1919.

Personal life
Quentin was engaged to Flora Payne Whitney, the elder daughter of Harry Payne Whitney and Gertrude Vanderbilt. Gertrude was a great-granddaughter of the shipping and railroad millionaire, "Commodore" Cornelius Vanderbilt. Harry objected to Flora's relationship with Quentin because Harry disapproved of the Roosevelt family in general and the liberal Republican Theodore Roosevelt in particular.

Quentin's letters to Flora and his father charted the course of America's entry into the war. While Theodore and Quentin were initially neutral, Theodore was incensed over the sinking of the British passenger ship RMS Lusitania in May 1915, in which 128 Americans drowned. Theodore campaigned vigorously on behalf of the 1916 Republican presidential nominee, Charles Evans Hughes, during which he severely criticized Woodrow Wilson. Wilson was reelected on a neutrality platform, but took the country to war during his second term.

Quentin came to agree with his father, writing to Flora in early 1917 from Harvard University, where he was studying: "We are a pretty sordid lot, aren't we, to want to sit looking on while England and France fight our battles and pan gold into our pockets."

Military service
All the Roosevelt sons had military training prior to World War I. With the outbreak of war in Europe in August 1914, there was a heightened concern about the nation's readiness for military engagement. Only the month before, Congress had belatedly recognized the significance of military aviation by authorizing the creation of an Aviation Section in the Signal Corps. In 1915, Major General Leonard Wood, a friend of Theodore Roosevelt since the Rough Rider days, organized a summer camp at Plattsburgh, New York, to provide military training for business and professional men at their own expense. It would be this summer training program that would provide the basis of a greatly expanded junior officers corps when the country entered World War I. During August 1915, many well-heeled young men from some of the finest East Coast schools, including Quentin Roosevelt and two of his brothers, attended the camp. When the United States entered the war, commissions were offered to the graduates of these schools based on their performance. The National Defense Act of 1916 continued the student military training and the businessmen's summer camps and placed them on a firmer legal basis by authorizing an Officers' Reserve Corps and a Reserve Officers' Training Corps (ROTC). Quentin, just out of the rigors of Groton and Harvard, did not really enjoy the training, but stuck it out anyway.

After the declaration of war, when the American Expeditionary Force was organizing, Theodore wired Major General John J. Pershing and volunteered to form a division and have his sons accompany him to Europe as privates. Pershing, who was a friend of Roosevelt dating back to the Cuban campaign, and had served under him when T.R. was president, accepted the proposal, but the War Department and President Woodrow Wilson overrode the decision. Roosevelt took the issue to Congress, but Wilson prevailed. In the end, all four of Theodore's sons served in World War I as officers, but Theodore spent the war making speeches for the Red Cross.

With American entry into World War I, Quentin thought his mechanical skills would be useful to the Army. Just engaged to Flora, he dropped out of college in May 1917 to join the newly formed 1st Reserve Aero Squadron, the first air reserve unit in the nation. He trained on Long Island at an airfield later renamed Roosevelt Field in his honor. Today, a shopping mall sits on the site that is also named Roosevelt Field.

Air service in France

Finally sent to France, Lieutenant Roosevelt first helped in setting up the large Air Service training base at Issoudun. He was a supply officer and then, in time, ran one of the training airfields. Eventually, he became a pilot in the 95th Aero Squadron, part of the 1st Pursuit Group. The unit was posted to Touquin, France and, on July 9, 1918, Saints, France. During the time that he was flying from Saints, he was billeted just half a mile away at Melina Thibault's home in Mauperthuis, France where he roomed with supply officer Ed Thomas. Roosevelt had one confirmed kill of a German aircraft during the German spring offensive, which he shot down on July 10, 1918. Four days later, in a massive aerial engagement at the commencement of the Second Battle of the Marne, he was himself shot down behind German lines.

Captain Eddie Rickenbacker, commander of the 94th Aero Squadron (also known as the "Hat-in-the-Ring" Squadron), in his memoirs described Roosevelt's character as a soldier and pilot in the following words:

"As President Roosevelt's son, he had rather a difficult task to fit himself in with the democratic style of living which is necessary in the intimate life of an aviation camp. Every one who met him for the first time expected him to have the airs and superciliousness of a spoiled boy. This notion was quickly lost after the first glimpse one had of Quentin. Gay, hearty and absolutely square in everything he said or did, Quentin Roosevelt was one of the most popular fellows in the group. We loved him purely for his own natural self.

He was reckless to such a degree that his commanding officers had to caution him repeatedly about the senselessness of his lack of caution. His bravery was so notorious that we all knew he would either achieve some great spectacular success or be killed in the attempt. Even the pilots in his own flight would beg him to conserve himself and wait for a fair opportunity for a victory. But Quentin would merely laugh away all serious advice."

Quentin's plane (a Nieuport 28) was shot down in aerial combat over Chamery, a hamlet of Coulonges-en-Tardenois (now Coulonges-Cohan). He was killed by two machine gun bullets which struck him in the head. The German military buried him with full battlefield honors. Since the plane had crashed so near the front lines, they used two pieces of basswood saplings, bound together with wire from his Nieuport, to fashion a cross for his grave. For propaganda purposes, they made a postcard of the dead pilot and his plane. However, this was met with shock in Germany, which still held Theodore Roosevelt in high respect and was impressed that a former president's son died on active duty. According to his service record, the site was at Marne Grave #1 Isolated Commune #102, Coulongue Aisne. The French government posthumously awarded him the Croix de Guerre with Palm.

Final combat flight and death
Three German pilots have been credited with Quentin's shootdown and death at various times, and all three of them may have been his killer. Leutnant Karl Thom of Jasta 21, one of the greatest German flying aces of the war, was in the vicinity and had confirmed kills nearby; he was often credited with Quentin's downing, but never claimed the kill. Leutnant Christian Donhauser of Jasta 17 claimed credit and publicized himself as Quentin's killer after the war. Sergeant Carl Graeper of Jasta 50 also claimed credit, but if he did fire the fatal shots, it was his only kill during the war. All three of them may have been in the dogfight which claimed Quentin's life.

In 1921, Quentin's brother Kermit edited and published Quentin Roosevelt: A Sketch with Letters, consisting of Quentin's letters from France as well as tributes to Quentin written after his death. Pages 169–171 describe the circumstances of Quentin's last flight and death. On one page is a letter home from another American pilot, Lieutenant Edward Buford, detailing Quentin's final mission. Buford, like Quentin, was also reported as missing in action, but he managed to land safely at a French aerodrome. He had witnessed Quentin's last fight from the air, and described it to his family several months later:

"September 5, 1918

FATHER DEAR,: –

You asked me if I knew Quentin Roosevelt. Yes, I knew him very well indeed, and had been associated with him ever since I came to France and he was one of the finest and most courageous boys I ever knew. I was in the fight when he was shot down and saw the whole thing.

Four of us were out on an early patrol and we had just crossed the lines looking for Boche observation machines, when we ran into seven Fokker Chasse planes. They had the altitude and the advantage of the Sun on us. It was very cloudy and there was a strong wind blowing us farther across the lines all the time. The leader of our formation turned and tried to get back out, but they attacked before we reached the lines, and in a few seconds had completely broken up our formation and the fight developed into a general free-for-all. I tried to keep an eye on all our fellows but we were hopelessly separated and out-numbered nearly two to one. About a half a mile away I saw one of our planes with three Boche on him, and he seemed to be having a pretty hard time with them, so I shook the two I was maneuvering with and tried to get over to him, but before I could reach him, his machine turned over on its back and plunged down out of control. I realized it was too late to be of any assistance and as none of our machines were in sight, I made for a bank of clouds to try to gain altitude on the Huns, and when I came back out, they had reformed, but there were only six of them, so I believe we must have gotten one.

I waited around about ten minutes to see if I could pickup any of our fellows, but they had disappeared, so I came on home, dodging from cloud to cloud for fear of running into another Boche formation. Of course, at the time of the fight I did not know who the pilot was I had seen go down, but as Quentin did not come back, it must have been him. His loss was one of the severest blows we have ever had in the Squadron, but he certainly died fighting, for any one of us could have gotten away as soon as the scrap started with the clouds as they were that morning. I have tried several times to write to Col. Roosevelt but it is practically impossible for me to write a letter of condolence, but if I am lucky enough to get back to the States, I expect to go to see him.

(END OF LETTER by Edward Buford)"

Kermit continued:

"Two days after Quentin fell, the following German communiqué was intercepted by our wireless:

On July fourteenth, seven of our chasing planes were attacked by a superior number of American planes north of Dormans. After a stubborn flight, one of the pilots – Lieutenant Roosevelt, – who had shown conspicuous bravery during the fight by attacking again and again without regard to danger, was shot in the head by his more experienced opponent and fell at Chamery." Not long afterward, a German official bulletin was found on a prisoner:

"Group 'Jeporen' [name of the general?]

General Command Headquarters.

Ic.[? – The Intelligence officer, in the name of the General].

No. 128133

[German] Army Corps Headquarters

The 24th of July, 1918/

Edition including even the Companies, except those which are just now on the front lines, and which will be only mentioned after their relief/ Sheet of Information, No. 10. From the 21st of July to the 23rd of July, 1918

THE SON OF FORMER PRESIDENT OF

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

ROOSEVELT, FOUND DEATH ON AN

AERIAL FIGHT ON THE MARNE"

At the time of a struggle between a German Pursuit squadron of seven aircraft and twelve American pursuit aviators above the Marne, a fight took place between the German pursuit pilot, a non-commissioned officer named Greper, and an American pilot. After a long fight, the German flyer succeeded in bringing down his gallant antagonist.

The hostile airman had been killed by two bullets in the head. He was identified by his papers as Lieutenant Roosevelt, of the U.S.A. Flying Corps.

A clipping from the Kölnische Zeitung obtained through the Spanish Embassy gave this account of the fight:

"The aviator of the American Squadron, Quentin Roosevelt, in trying to break through the airzone over the Marne, met the death of a hero. A formation of seven German airplanes, while crossing the Marne, saw in the neighborhood of Dormans a group of twelve American fighting airplanes and attacked them. A lively air battle began, in which one American (Quentin) in particular persisted in attacking. The principal feature of the battle consisted in an air duel between the American and a German fighting pilot named Sergeant Greper. After a short struggle, Greper succeeded in bringing the brave American just before his gun-sights. After a few shots the plane apparently got out of his control; the American began to fall and struck the ground near the village of Chamery, about ten kilometers north of the Marne. The American flier was killed by two shots through the head. Papers in his pocket showed him to be Quentin Roosevelt, of the United States army. His effects are being taken care of in order to be sent to his relatives. He was buried by German aviators with military honors. The German pilot who shot down Quentin Roosevelt told me of counting twenty bullet holes in his machine when he landed after the fight. He survived the war but was killed in an accident while engaged in delivering German airplanes to the American Forces under the terms of the Armistice."

Funeral services held by the Germans were witnessed on July fifteenth by Captain James E. Gee of the 110th Infantry, who had been captured and was being evacuated to the rear. Gee passed through Chamery, the little village near which the plane crashed to earth. He thus describes the scene:

"In a hollow square about the open grave were assembled approximately one thousand German soldiers, standing stiffly in regular lines. They were dressed in field gray uniforms, wore steel helmets, and carried rifles. Near the grave was a smashed plane, and beside it was a small group of officers, one of whom was speaking to the men. 'I did not pass close enough to hear what he was saying; we were prisoners and did not have the privilege of lingering, even for such an occasion as this. At the time I did not know who was being buried, but the guards informed me later. The funeral certainly was elaborate. I was told afterward by Germans that they paid Lieut. Roosevelt such honor not only because he was a gallant aviator, who died fighting bravely against odds, but because he was the son of Colonel Roosevelt whom they esteemed as one of the greatest Americans."

On July 18, in a great allied counter-attack, the village where Quentin fell was retaken from the Germans, and his grave was found by some American soldiers. At its head was a wooden cross, on which was printed:

 * Leutnant Q. Roosevelt
 * Honored and Buried by the Imperial German Army.

Following the custom that sprang up in the chivalrous environment of the air services, the broken propeller blades and bent and scarred wheels of the plane were marking his resting-place.

Nearby lay the shattered remains of the airplane, with the seventy-six "wound stripes" which Quentin had painted on it, still to be seen.

The engineer regiment of the division that had retaken Chamery marked the spot where the airplane fell, and raised a cross at the grave with the inscription

The French placed an oaken enclosure with a head-born reading:

After his grave came under Allied control, thousands of American soldiers visited it to pay their respects. Roosevelt's resting place became a shrine and an inspiration to his comrades in arms. His death was a great personal loss to his father, who understood quite well that he had encouraged his son's entry into the War. It is said that he never fully recovered from his son's death. Within six months, Theodore himself would be dead.

In 1955, eleven years after the World War II American Cemetery was established in France at Colleville-sur-Mer, Quentin's body was exhumed and moved there. Quentin's remains were moved in order to be buried next to his eldest brother Ted, who had died of a heart attack in France in 1944, shortly after leading his troops in landings on Utah Beach on D-Day as Assistant 4th Infantry Division Commander (an act which would earn him the Medal of Honor). Quentin's original gravestone was moved to Sagamore Hill to serve as a cenotaph for the former president's son. The German-made basswood cross that marked Quentin's original gravesite is on display at the National Museum of the United States Air Force, at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, in Dayton, Ohio.

Commemorations
In June 2007, several Roosevelt family members as well as members of the Theodore Roosevelt Association (TRA) visited the small monument in France at the French village over which Quentin was shot down in 1918. Their purpose was to restore the monument and prepare a report to the TRA on the work accomplished by this trip.

Quentin Roosevelt II (1919–1948), the third and youngest son of Ted, was named after Quentin, and also died in a plane crash.

On July 14, 2008, on the 90th anniversary of Quentin's death, the villages of Saints, Mauperthuis and Touquin held a commemoration of Quentin Roosevelt. Roosevelt was billeted in the village of Mauperthuis and based in Saints at the time of his death.

On Sainte-Marie-à-Py the Aux Morts des Armées de Champagne monument was made in 1923 by sculptor Maxime Real del Sarte.

On June 28, 2009, on the 90th anniversary of the departure of the USAS from Issoudun, Issoudun held a ceremony in honor of the American aviators and also included Quentin Roosevelt's name on the new plaque.

The community of Quentin, Pennsylvania, in Lebanon County, was named for Quentin Roosevelt.

There is a street in Château-Thierry, France named rue Quentin Roosevelt in his honor. Château-Thierry held a series of events and exhibitions in honor of the memory of Quentin Roosevelt in 2010.

Quentin Road in Brooklyn, New York, originally called Avenue Q, was renamed in 1922, possibly in honor of Quentin Roosevelt.

Garden City, New York has a Quentin Roosevelt Boulevard. Its Roosevelt Field – formerly an airfield and now site of Roosevelt Field Mall – was named for Quentin Roosevelt.

The French village Sancy-les-Cheminots in Aisne remembers Quentin Roosevelt in its Jardin de souvenir (Garden of remembrance). Formerly Sancy, this village was completely destroyed and has been rebuilt by donations of the railway workers (fr:cheminots) and of American donors, among them Mme Theodore Roosevelt and Mme Emily Carow, godmother of Quentin Roosevelt.

Quentin Roosevelt Blvd. on Naval Air Station (NAS) North Island, San Diego, CA is named in his honor. A young Quentin Roosevelt and his father, Theodore Roosevelt, are mentioned in the 1953 children's story book Brighty of the Grand Canyon on the occasion of Quentin's first mountain lion hunt.

Literature

 * Eric Burns: The golden Lad; the haunting Story of Quentin and Theodore Roosevelt. Pegasus Books, New York, 2016, ISBN 978-1-60598-951-8

title: Quentin Roosevelt


text:
File:The Guru movie.jpg

summary
The Guru movie poster.

source
Taken from http://www.impawards.com/2003/posters/guru.jpg

Fair use in The Guru (2002 film)
Though this image is subject to copyright, its use is covered by the U.S. fair use laws because:
 * 1) It's a low resolution copy of a Film Poster / VHS or DVD Cover.
 * 2) It doesn't limit the copyright owner's rights to sell the film in any way, in fact, it may encourage sales.
 * 3) Because of the low resolution, copies could not be used to make illegal copies of the artwork/image.
 * 4) The image is itself a subject of discussion in the article or used in the infobox thereof.
 * 5) The image  is significant because it was used to promoted a notable film.

Source

 * 1) Derived from a digital capture (photo/scan) of the Film Poster/ VHS or DVD Cover (creator of this digital version is irrelevant as the copyright in all equivalent images is still held by the same party). Copyright held by the film company or the artist.  Claimed as fair use regardless.

title: File:The Guru movie.jpg


text:
Category:IAS architecture computers

The category of IAS architecture computers includes the early university and research institution computers that were based on the John von Neumann-designed IAS machine made at, and named after, the Institute for Advanced Study.

title: Category:IAS architecture computers


text:
Talk:SS Henry Bacon

Okay, I fixed it anyway. You may want to check that all of the data is correct, but I think that I got it all. what is a 6 pounder anyway? how does it equate to mm?

There is something very wrong with the tables, and I do not know how to fix it. I fixed a few bad links and some minor typos, but I do not know how to fix the table. ThinkerThoughts 17:06, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

The author is the webmaster for Project Liberty Ship and and wrote this article after meeting some of the survivors on the SS John W. Brown. I am looking for my pictures. Oldfarm 03:10, 22 Oct 2004 (UTC)

The date is wrong in this sentence, but I can't find the correct year:

In 1942, Captain Carini was posthumously awarded the Krigskorset med Sverd or Norwegian War Cross with Sword.

--Lylenorton (talk) 01:03, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

Was CPT Alfred Carini a navel CAPT/Col? If so he would out rank LTC Keith N. Allen, and will change the order of the officers. --Dandvsp (talk) 14:36, 25 February 2009 (UTC)

E.S. Campbell merger opposed
A merge request with the E. S. Campbell article has been proposed. That articles refers to other aspects of this seaman's life in addition to his service on the SS Henry Bacon. The SS Henry Bacon article does not refer to him. I suggest the merge be rejected and the merge requests removed.

The merge of Earnal S. Campbell should be approved to the extent of his service on board the Henry Bacon. He was the Chief Radio Operator and because of his bravery, determination, perfection, and unrelenting devotion to duty, the two life boats were located within 3 hours after the Henry Bacon succumbed to the violent sea. All passengers of the life boats were rescued by the HMS Opportune, whose radio operator had received the SOS sent by Mr. Campbell. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.196.199.66 (talk) 03:51, 26 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on SS Henry Bacon. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20041016210035/http://www.news.navy.mil/search/displaybbs.asp?bbs_id=541&cat=3 to http://www.news.navy.mil/search/displaybbs.asp?bbs_id=541&cat=3

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Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 15:58, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:SS Henry Bacon