text:
Talk:Roppongi Hills

The Roppongi Hills Tragedy
References to the tragedy should not only be retained but expanded. Reithy 19:48, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

Better.. you've given it scale and actually made it seem like it was an event, rather then just like WTF? he died. Also just based on your article I think you might want to take a look at what wikipedia is not, spefically the entry on wikipedia is not a collection of links —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chuck F (talk • contribs) 20:23, 23 October 2004.

Can someone please explain why the information on the 'tragedy' is being deleted? Is it incorrect? LeeHarveyOswalk 17:34, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Reithy - if you want to pretend to be different accounts, you need to at least bother to edit more then one article. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 210.142.29.125 (talk • contribs) 06:03, 26 October 2004.
 * Don't understand Reithy 23:07, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

Reithy - I won't deny you've added a lot of crticisms to the page, but why do you alwayls have to add critcism? I mean did you spefically go seraching google for "problems with roppong hills" or something? There is so so much more events/activties/ descriptions that could be added to what happend at roppongi hills, There's no reason for you to just be adding critcism to the article, espically when it's so incompleate anyway. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.112.19.195 (talk • contribs) 16:31, 28 October 2004.

 * I totally agree it's incomplete and given that you live there you are well positioned to add substantially to it. That does not mean deleting the interesting material I have put in. Reithy 23:07, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

and I really really don't think noise pollution of a building is a good additon to the article, it's not anyway major ESPICally compared with other things you could be adding.(plus I really would like a source to that noise pollution claim anyway... I've been spending extensive amount of time at Roppongi hills this week for tokyo film festival and the entire place is commerical, there's no way the noise could reach out two blocks to the resedential areas. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 203.112.19.195 (talk • contribs) 16:31, 28 October 2004.

 * Agree, let's add a lot more. I will put up a source, gladly but I won't be deleting interesting content. Reithy 23:07, Oct 29, 2004 (UTC)

message board comments are not valid sources... you know if they were the entire article about George W.bush could be filled up with about he actually was the mastermind behind 9/11 and how the american government has done every terrosit attack ever occured. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chuck F (talk • contribs) 01:24, 30 October 2004.

And I don't live there, you just have no idea how ip's work. The stalking of me is really unacceptable. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chuck F (talk • contribs) 01:26, 30 October 2004.

 * Live there, don't live there, I don't care where you live. If you wish to contribute to the development of the article that would be great. If don't, that's fine but stop deleting the content I'm creating. You don't think there's noise pollution in Roppongi Hills? Either put your head out of your window or do a Google search on "noise polluion" and "Roppongi Hills". That's all the proof any reasonable person wants. Reithy 13:23, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)

 * if you don't care where I live, why do you keep posting it all over wikipedia?

 * Did no such thing, referred to it as you did in edit summaries, you cannot have it both ways Reithy 14:26, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)

 * umm,, you know you put it more then just edit summaries, if you need a reminder of where, look at the request for arbitration page. Whereas you can't show one single instance of me talking about your locaton Chuck F 01:47, 31 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * and if you notice all the links on noise pollution + roppongi hills are credited to that don person. AND STILL this isn't a bloody criticsms of ROppongi hills article... if you want to make that article go ahead. But Roppongi Hills hasn't proven to be an aybsmel failure, anyone reading your verison would think that. Stop messing around Chuck F 13:29, 30 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Certainly not, I understand it to be a great success and have no problem saying so, in fact some criticize it for drawing to many people out of nearby areas. So it must be a success. Reithy 14:26, Oct 30, 2004 (UTC)

 * The "Roppongi Hills Tragedy" deserves maybe 5 sentences at most. This article is about the building/complex not every tangential event related to it. Mdchachi|Talk 20:10, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Japanese page
Take a look at the Japanese verison of this page... It's longer then your verison with criticsms, and yet it doesn't include any critcisms at all! shows you something about how important your edits are, stop just adding in trash please and try to be productive. 203.112.19.195 04:24, 1 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Why don't you add to the article and stop complaining. You're not fooling anyone. Reithy 13:00, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * Here's an idea: translate that part of the Japanese page you think is useful. I want the article to fully explain the history of the development, what's there and. yes, what the controversies of the place are. I would be delighted if you wrote it. Your repeated deletion of my material is a breach of Wiki rules. Reithy 22:02, Nov 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * I suspect my Japanese is not as good as yours CHuck, but I didn't see much new on the Japanese page, except for the image which I would like to include. Reithy 00:50, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)

WTF???
Does this Roppongi thing have something to do with Libertarianism and I'm just missing it, or what? func(talk) 04:40, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Chuck followed me to this page after disagreeing about racist Congressman Ron Paul and other Libertarian pages. But no other connection I don't think! Reithy 05:01, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)

Wtf... you followed me here, after deciding this is where I lived Chuck F 05:08, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The history of the Roppongi Hills article shows otherwise. I was definitely here first. Reithy 06:40, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC) See here.

 * No, I was here first. Little did I ever dream that this would become a controversial, protected article! I have no idea about your (both of you) politics but if you can't play nice then leave. FWIW I think the door incident should be condensed to about 5 sentences or less. If you really think it's an important topic, then create a new article about it. The section about Criticism and Conflict should be removed completely. These are the kinds of complaints that you would find about any large development and, thus, are not particularly notable. Mdchachi|Talk 20:10, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * You make a good point, a revert war over this sort of article is silly, I agree. The door incident is a very important story that should be told, it probably does not warrant a separate article. Remember there are articles on Wikipedia with thousands of words, at its current length this is still OK. I will try to condense that a little though, however the recent Police investigation into what company execs knew and when they knew it about the malfunctioning doors is certainly worth ongoing attention, I believe. Roppongi Hills is a large, successful, controversial development and probably the first of many of its kind in Tokyo, I think it is certainly appropriate for an encyclopedia to explore all of the issues around it, including noise pollution, financing, trading performance, the tragedy with the doors and other things you might not see in a company brochure. Reithy 23:22, Nov 2, 2004 (UTC)

 * I think it would make more sense to put in the meat (ie the stuff that's in the company brochure and basic stuff) before all sorts of tangential things but, as you know, people can work on whatever aspects of an article that they wish. Well, whenever this thing is unprotected I'll throw my two cents into the mix and we'll see what happens. Don't worry, I'm not going to revert good, factual material (though I may reword or rearrange it some). Mdchachi|Talk 19:12, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I was keen not to replicate the company website. But I am very pleased to see someone interested in the article with a positive outlook. It's a good and large development that needs an article to suit. Reithy 20:27, Nov 3, 2004 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Roppongi Hills


text:
Barack (brandy)

Barack is a type of Hungarian brandy (Pálinka) made of (or flavored with) apricots; an apricot brandy.

The word barack is a collective term for both apricot (in Hungarian sárgabarack, lit. "yellow-peach") and peach (in Hungarian őszibarack, lit. "autumn-peach"). Note that the Hungarian word barack is etymologically related to the English word 'peach' as well as many words meaning the same in many European languages, and ultimately goes back to persikos, the ancient Greek word for 'Persian'.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Barack (brandy)


text:
Talk:Weston-super-Mare

Did you know
New articles relating to Weston-super-Mare that have featured on the Main Page:
 * ...that Weston-super-Mare's Birnbeck Pier has the longest lifeboat slipway (pictured) in England? 5 August 2007
 * ...that horses hauled both passenger and goods trains to Weston-super-Mare railway station, England, from 1841, when the railway opened, until 1851? 26 July 2007
 * ...that the architect Hans Price was responsible for the distinctive look of buildings in Weston-super-Mare, England, during the Victorian era? 16 July 2007

Submit new articles at: Template talk:Did you know

Silica
I've altered the article to reflect to information discovered on Weston's continued space exploration plans. An official announcement on the issue is expected to be made by the town's mayor in Jan 2007. - Miser

SeaQuarium / sea-life centre
I've been watching this with amusement - and I guess it is the sort of thing Wikipedia contributors are 'never going to see eye-to-eye on.

As I see it a sea-life centre is a generic (and lower case !) term that describes a whole group of commercial ventures and by far the most appropriate term for an encyclopedia. Similarly I would say vacuum cleaner rather than Hoover.

Sure the previous owners did I think call it the Sea-life Centre (Upper case though !)

Johnrcrellin 15:45, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks - the current solution works for me! CLW 21:32, 6 January 2006 (UTC)

Helicopter Museum
The helicopter museum in Weston-super-Mare is the largest in the world. Surely it deserves more of a mention (or its own article even)?

I also removed the blatant advertising for the Operatic society.

Sub headings
At the moment the article seems a little jumbled and I think it could do with some sub headings and a bit more structure. does anyone agree or have suggestions for sections it could be divided into? Basement12 15:33, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

An example of the kind of thing i mean is the Chelsea page, I think similar would be good here Basement12 15:36, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Tidal range and mud
I thought the last couple of paragraphs needed amplification. Plus, I'm afraid it's a myth we all cling to here in Weston but the second largest tidal range tag is factually inaccurate. I am not even sure it is third as I am sure I read that there is another high(er) range somewhere in China but cannot trace the reference at the moment.

Johnrcrellin 19:42, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

20,000 all seater stadium
I live in Weston and have never heard any mention of this project. As it is not cited, I feel that it is most likely vandalism. Unless someone has any further info on it, I'm going to remove it. I'll look into it with other residents as well. 22:50, 8 December 2006 (UTC)

I've not heard of it either ! Johnrcrellin 08:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)

I have decided to remove the football section altogether as, after looking through the contributions of the person who added it http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/81.155.89.143, I feel that it is very unlikely that there is any validity to it. Algebra man 19:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

Recent changes
I assume the loss of the History section was not intended by any serious editor of this page? Silliness on this article seems to be spinning out of control. I have re-instated it. Johnrcrellin 07:48, 12 December 2006 (UTC)

I'm revoking the bit I put in yesterday about "-super-Mare" maybe meaning "on the edge of the moor" rather than "on sea". It's true that Geoffrey Bartlett, longtime math teacher at St. Peter's School 50 years ago, used to assert that IF it meant "on sea" it should be "super-Marem", etc. But after putting this up, I thought I should check the Latin/English dictionaries. I found that the only Latin "mar.." that could translate into "moor" is "inhabitant of Mauretania" (i.e. the north African variety). Maybe this was Barty's last joke, or a conundrum left to posterity that we can now lay to rest. He had a huge influence on my life. Thanks, whoever put up the "dubious-discuss" tag. Adrian Pollock (talk) 19:59, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

 * It was me :-), I wasn't sure you were joking or being serious, Pahari Sahib (talk) 20:59, 27 January 2008 (UTC)

Historic(al) Somerset
I cannot quite understand the reluctance to state in the piece the undoubted fact that, for most of its existence, Weston-super-Mare was in Somerset. POV I know - but Avon surely will soon be seen as a (regrettable) blip in history ? Leaving that aside the fact that the town was originally in Somerset and is now in an authority described as "North Somerset" are the important points. Look at old maps and I think you will see that present BANES, North Somerset and Bristol south of the Avon were indeed "North Somerset" as a division of the county. And to make it worse botanists still have a "North Somerset" that extends further south. Johnrcrellin 12:48, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Somerset
It should mention that weston is still in the (Ceremonial) county of Somerset Blackwave...... (talk) 19:28, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Ceremonial county is mentioned in the infobox so it is reasonable that it should also be mentioned in the body of the article. However it isn't reasonable to simply remove North Somerset from the article - hence my reversion of your edit. --Cheesy Mike (talk) 20:16, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

Tides
Maybe the wording needs improving. (As shown by recent revision attempt that completely missed the point.) The way tides work they have the highest RANGE at the same time of day each cycle (I didn't know this until I moved to Weston and observed it for myself.) So when it is high tide at say 12.00 midday it is never VERY high and because the beach is so shallow, changing to mud as you go out, the visitor does not get to see the sea much during their day. If you stay overnight when high tide is at say 8.00 am then you get to see the sea right up close. Johnrcrellin (talk) 09:08, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I think I understand what you say, but would like to see it cited from elsewhere. If you look at the next week's tides in Weston you will see that as the tide gets later in the morning its height gets less. However, on Tuesday 15th high tide is late in the morning at 11:07 and is still a relatively high 10.8 metres. At this height the tide is quite a way up the beach. I too lived in Weston for a long time, and still live nearby, so know what it looks like when you only get a 9 metre high tide. --TimTay (talk) 09:17, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Yes there are several overlapping cycles at work and when the tides are at their highest in the yearly cycle you do get a reasonable tide at times like 11.00 - but the yearly cycle doesn't favour day trippers in the summer. The practical outcome is that most of the time when the beach is busy the sea is a long way off ! As always trying to get a complex but relevant point distilled down to a short paragraph is hard ! Johnrcrellin (talk) 09:23, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Can you find this referenced on an external website or in a book anywhere? It would be really good to add it to the article. --TimTay (talk) 13:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I have deleted the wording which referred to high tide occuring during the morning and then late afternoon. This is simply not the way that the tidal cycle operates. High (or low) tide can occur at ANY point during a 24 hour period. While the HEIGHT of those tides also varies, a scan of the Weston Tide Tables will illustrate that the highest of the high tides in the course of a month can occur at a variety of times. To state that this will occur early in the morning or late afternoon is factually incorrect. Ron519098 (talk) 10:39, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

 * I think there may be some truth in the original comment, I just don't understand why it is. If you look at Weston's tide times for Jan & Feb 2010 you will see that the 12m+ tides all occur first thing in the morning or in the evening, rarely during the time a tourist would typically be on the beach. However, the phenomenon isn't unique to Weston, I suspect it happens with tides all over the world, so I think it is right to delete the text from the article. --Simple Bob (talk) 12:30, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

 * Yes and if you look at other months you'll see that the highest tides occur at times ranging from 06:30ish to 10:30ish. Ron519098 (talk) 13:06, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Spam
This article shouldn't be spammed with details of that pier fire, and certainly not on 5 places throughout that article. That's very amateuristic. The pier has its own article where all the details can be added. This article is about the town, and as such should tell the history of the town, not the history of each event happening to each specific building in it. Moreover, adding a name in the famous people list as "Town's official biggest pier fan" seems rather nonsense to me. --194.7.246.43 (talk) 13:01, 28 July 2008 (UTC)
 * "Amateurish"? Have you looked at what you did in your revert - you wiped out plenty of other valid efforts and improvements. Pince Nez (talk) 13:12, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Layout
Looks like there's alot of activity here on an article that will be experiencing a visitor spike (for obvious reasons).

If anybody is hoping to expand the article, I'd urge them to take a breif look at WP:UKCITIES with regards to standard layout. Hope that helps, --Jza84 | Talk  23:28, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

Merger proposal
I would suggest that Oldmixon (and any other suburbs) should be merged into this article as they are unlikely to ever be signifcant articles in their own right and would be thought of by most people as part of the town.— Rod talk 13:38, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Agree, although I would suggest that Uphill remains separate as it does have a more distinct identity.--TimTay (talk) 14:19, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * OK can you suggest other suburbs which currently have their own articles (probably stubs)?— Rod talk 14:25, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I think West Wick (which doesn't currently have an article) should probably redirect here, but what about Worle? I note St. Georges, North Somerset and Kewstoke are both separate parishes so should probably have their own entries.— Rod talk 15:05, 27 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Oldmixon & West Wick now merged in.— Rod talk 17:56, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

Repertory Theatres
Does the name Knightsbridge Theatre mean anything to anybody? I remember playing in a company run by Philip Barrett, husband of Eileen Herlie, in a production of Love in Idleness, around 1948. I can't Google any of this. JohnClarknew (talk) 07:06, 16 December 2008 (UTC)
 * I think you mean the Knightstone Theatre, which closed some time ago and has now been converted into luxury apartments. Google for "knightstone island" and you will find lots of info. --TimTay (talk) 10:26, 16 December 2008 (UTC)

Link to "Wheel of Weston" website
I have removed an external link to the Wheel of Weston web site which appears to be a purely commercial promotional site which adds nothing to the article. If anyone want to add this back again, could they discuss it here first to gain consensus?— Rod talk 14:13, 21 April 2009 (UTC)

Culture
Why the references to various nightclubs and pubs? This is of dubious value, particularly as the life-span of many of these establishments is limited and therefore their existence ephemeral. It also smacks of desperation! Yes Weston may have limited cultural venues but a number of these establishments are simply venues for drunken nights out. I have removed the references to those which do not have some (tenuous) link to live entertainment.Ron519098 (talk) 12:07, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Roald Dahl & Mandy Miller
Should Roald Dahl be included in the notable people list? It appears he spent a short period of time at a boarding school in the town, but I'm not sure that is a strong enough link. We also have Mandy Miller actress - whose article was deleted - should she be in?— Rod talk 11:42, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

I think Dahl should be included as he does give quite a lot of prominence to this episode in his life in his autobiographical book "Boy" Johnrcrellin (talk) 06:36, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

 * I think you are saying that WsM was significant to Dahl ( and therefore should be included in the article about him), but was Dahl significant to WsM, which is the focus of this article?— Rod talk 06:57, 27 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Not sure but what about others ? (From memory may be wrong) Cleese didn't spend long there but he talks about WSM so significant to him and same school. I'm fairly sure Eddington was only there for a short part of his childhood and never went back... Johnrcrellin (talk) 07:32, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * The standard seems to be to include those that were born in a town (eg Cleese) but I would agree to removing those that only spent a small part of their childhood there but didn't have a significance for the town (eg Edington). The relevant guideline is probably WikiProject UK geography/How to write about settlements. The problem is if all the people who went to a particular school were included in the article about the place in which is was based it could overwhelm the article. To use a local(ish) example if all the alumni of Monkton Combe School were included in the Monkton Combe article it would nearly double the content! However I don't feel that strongly about it and if you want to Dahl back I will not remove it again, alternatively an article about St Peter's School (which we don't have at present) should definitely include Dahl.— Rod talk 08:36, 27 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Agreed - and there isn't much about the school, apart from a closed alumni site which I have requested access to. Johnrcrellin (talk) 08:33, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

I disagree strongly with adding Dahl to the article. People who went to school in the town but played no other part in its life belong in the school's article but not the town article. The same is true for people who play for sports teams in a town, unless they live in the town or play some other role in the life of the town. --Simple Boba.k.a. The Spaminator (Talk) 08:52, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Quite a few to delete from the list then I think... Johnrcrellin (talk) 15:53, 28 July 2011 (UTC)

T4 On The Beach
There is an assertion in the article that acts mime their vocals as the event is being televised. Where is the evidence for this? While it may be the case that some acts mime, I find it hard to believe that this is universally the case. Ron519098 (talk) 16:27, 24 January 2010 (UTC)
 * There seem to be lots of comments on forums etc (not WP:RS) but there is a report here (which might make it as RS) saying "producers of the T4 'On The Beach' event told the band they will be forced to mime."— Rod talk 16:39, 24 January 2010 (UTC)

What else is needed to get this article to GA?
I've been editing this article to try to bring it closer to the guidelines at WP:UKCITIES and would be interested in what other editors think is need to get it to meet the Good article criteria? Obviously we need to expand the lead to summarise the article & reference (or remove) the uncited claims, but is there anything else which would be required?— Rod talk 17:41, 14 February 2010 (UTC)
 * I think that the question of scope needs to be addressed. How much overlap is there between this and other local artices, in particular Uphill and Worle? The "early history" looks very thin, but of course most early development was not in the town centre.
 * There are a lot of places beond the tagged sections where we will need references.
 * There is some crossover between "culture" and "tourism". Perhaps this is to be expected due to the nature of ther town but that will not help the GA review.
 * I also think that the education and church sections need to be more rounded. Geof Sheppard (talk) 13:55, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Toponymy of name
The section on the name includes two sentences for which I can find no evidence "first recorded by an unknown medieval church clerk, presumably to distinguish it from other settlements named Weston in the area. It is a popular myth that the description was a later Victorian invention. Often people will write the town's name as "Weston-Super-Mare"; this however is incorrect, as "super" should always be written in lower case." The only places I can find this are mirror sites of wikipedia. Has anyone else got sources which would back these claims up? If not I propose removing them until evidence can be found.— Rod talk 10:13, 21 March 2010 (UTC)
 * I added a reference for latin name orgin, removing the "unknown clerk" bit because that isn't covered by the reference. I removed the other bits though as I agree they need citing. I suggest they be put back if refs can be found. --Simple Bob (talk) 10:33, 21 March 2010 (UTC)

Phone Code
A large number of websites contain an incorrect spelling duplicating an error present in Ofcom's (previously Oftel) UK area code list for the last decade. 01934 was listed as Weston-Super-Mare in the official UK area code list and only recently corrected to Weston-super-Mare, see their Errata. 212.139.105.91 (talk) 08:31, 9 January 2012 (UTC)

Post-2010 Revival
Weston seems to have undergone a revival since the seafront and pier were rebuilt and reopened in 2010. It is now an extremely nice place to visit and often very busy. However most of the visitor number and visitor trend figures quoted in the article predate the new seafront/pier and thus seem to focus on decline. This gives an incorrect impression to the reader.

My guess, as father of a family that visits 3-6 times a year, is that visitor numbers have been persistently increasing year-on-year since 2010. Where might we find a reliable source that could confirm/deny such a statistical progression? Ideally we need a single source that shows 2010, 2011 and 2012 numbers collected in a consistent fashion. If such a revival is supported by sources, I would like to add a "Revival" subsection. Andrew Oakley (talk) 09:33, 24 January 2013 (UTC)
 * It's a great suggestion and as a frequent visitor I would echo your comments. The place has really come up since the pier reopened and the works relating to the new wall and road-redirection took place on the front. --Bob Re-born (talk) 09:51, 24 January 2013 (UTC)

Have a look at this - Tourism figures 2002-2012 Senington (talk) 13:16, 14 August 2013 (UTC)Senington

Wartime / bombing
The figure of 17,000 incendiary bombs is not supported by the cited web page. I found a different page which says 3,000 incendiary bombs - http://www.thewestonmercury.co.uk/news/weston_super_mare_at_war_1_777642 but no reliable support for 17,000. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.158.8.39 (talk) 08:17, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your comment. Looking at the source used in the article I can't see the 17,000 figure either, however the Weston Mercury source you give says the 3,000 figure was on January 4, 1941 so a much larger figure for the whole of the war is quite possible.— Rod talk 08:26, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * This site does have the 17,000 figure but I'm not sure it can be used as a reliable source and neither can this one.— Rod talk 08:33, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * 17,000 for the war is possible, but the article presently puts that figure on two dates - which I would suspect is a single night's raid. "On 3 and 4 January 1941, 17,000 incendiary bombs fell on the town.[28]"  It was a big night for Bristol too: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bristol_Blitz#Following_raids  Perhaps worth using "Five high explosive bombs and three thousand incendiaries fell on the town, killing 34 people and injuring a further 85" from http://www.walkingthebattlefields.com/2012/11/the-clevedon-blitz-night-of-4th-and-5th.html (or a better source if one can be found) - which indirectly makes the point that counting incendiaries gives a misleading impression of a raid? 109.158.8.39 (talk) 08:39, 8 June 2014 (UTC)
 * (On the site you linked it does say "and surrounding cities" which rather undermines the figure) 109.158.8.39 (talk) 08:41, 8 June 2014 (UTC)

Requesting help identifying photo subject
Can anyone here provide any help in identifying this particular building? Kelly hi! 18:25, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Sorry, disregard. Identified as Commons:Category:Silica, Weston-super-Mare. Kelly  hi! 18:35, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * see also my pic File:Westernsilica.JPG which I described by the local (slightly derogatory) term "The Carrot".— Rod talk 18:44, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * I have to agree! Kelly  hi! 18:52, 16 August 2016 (UTC)

Image additions and changes
Anybody watching this page lately will notice that I've added and changed several of the images, including the main image. These changes are explained on the history page, but I just wanted to reiterate them here: Hopefully nobody has any objections to the changes. Some of the old pictures have been in this article a while and I feel that the changes better reflect the town as it is currently. Helpful987 (talk) 11:02, 3 September 2020 (UTC)
 * I switched the main image from the one taken in 2008 to a recently-uploaded one from 2020, showing the pier with the newer pavilion (and arguably giving a better idea of the 'look' of the town than the aeroplane image)
 * I've added a view over Weston in the 1890s to the history section to illustrate its development as a Victorian seaside town; it seemed strange that these wonderful and illustrative images were available for use in the Commons and yet none appeared in the article
 * I switched the modern-day image of Birnbeck Pier in the history section to one from around 1900, which seemed more appropriate given that the section is about the town's initial Victorian development
 * I added an image of Victorian architecture commonly found around the town to the architecture section, to illustrate what it says about local stone buildings
 * I switched the image of the now-closed SeaQuarium with one of the now-open Tropicana, as this seemed more relevant to the economy/tourism section
 * I switched the image of the Grand Pier from 2011 to a recently-uploaded one from 2020, which I think gives a better idea of the pavilion's scale with the people on the beach nearby, and which also shows the tea room on the back of the pier
 * I switched the Knightstone Island picture to one that shows the whole island, rather than just one of the buildings, to better illustrate what the article says about the island
 * I've also now switched the image of the Silica to one that shows the whole structure, giving a better idea of its scale and its location within the town centre. Helpful987 (talk) 14:41, 8 September 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Weston-super-Mare


text: User talk:66.205.8.2

title: User talk:66.205.8.2


text:
Hysterotomy

A hysterotomy is an incision made in the uterus. This surgical incision is used in several medical procedures, including during termination of pregnancy in the second trimester (or abortion) and delivering the fetus during caesarean section. It is also used to gain access and perform surgery on a fetus during pregnancy to correct birth defects, and it is an option to achieve resuscitation if cardiac arrest occurs during pregnancy and it is necessary to remove the fetus from the uterus.

There are several types of incisions that can be made, including a midline vertical incision and a low transverse incision. The incision is made using a scalpel and is about 1-2 cm long, but it can be longer depending on the procedure that is performed. Other types of incisions are low transverse incision with T-extension in the midline, low transverse incision with J-extension, and low transverse incision with U-extension. These are used when low transverse incisions do not provide enough space in order to remove the contents in the uterus.

This incision also comes with possible risks and complications when the incision is made and during repair, including blood loss (possibly leading to anemia), wound infection, fertility problems, premature labor, postoperative pain, and many others. In addition, a rare form of ectopic pregnancy known as scar ectopic pregnancy can occur. This is when there is abnormal implantation of an embryo onto the scar of the uterus. There is an increased risk of this complication occurring due to trauma from previous procedures utilizing hysterotomies, such as caesarean section and dilation, though the mechanism is unknown. Closure of the hysterotomy incision made can be done with either a staple or a suture. Sutures are most commonly used, specifically double layer sutures.

Hysterotomy abortion
A hysterotomy is used to remove a fetus from the uterus, similar to a procedure known as caesarean section, in order to terminate a pregnancy in the second trimester of later. It is typically used as last resort if dilation and curettage, dilation and electric vacuum aspiration, or manual vacuum aspiration fails to work. Dilation and curettage refers to the opening or widening of the cervix and scooping and scraping the tissues that are inside of the uterus. Electric vacuum aspiration utilizes a vacuum to remove the embryo that is in the uterus, but this method is more expensive than manual vacuum aspiration.

Caesarean section
Although fetal delivery through caesarean section is a very common surgery done in the world, it comes with several risks including bleeding, infection, thromboembolism, and soft-tissue injury. During a caesarean section, a hysterotomy is utilized to make an incision in the uterus and remove the fetus. Gestational age, newborn birth weight, and danger presenting risks are all taken into account on whether or not a classic hysterotomy or low transverse incision will be made.

Resuscitative hysterotomy
A resuscitative hysterotomy is performed during or near the occurrence of a cardiac arrest, in which an incision is made to remove the fetus from the uterus. This is done in order to save the fetus, as well as to revive the woman whose uterus was carrying the fetus. This is traditionally done if the fetus is of 24 weeks or older, at which it is viable outside of the uterus. The primary goal is to save the pregnant woman, and in order to insure the highest survival rate, the goal of fetus delivery time is within 5 minutes after the patient goes under arrest and/or two cycles of CPR. During pregnancy, the pregnant uterus may compress the inferior vena cava and abdominal aorta, causing reduced blood flow to the uterus and to the pregnant woman. Removing the fetus can restore blood flow to the pregnant woman.

Fetal surgery
Hysterotomy is a technique used during fetal surgery to access the fetus in the pregnant uterus in order to treat a birth defect such as spina bifida. A standard hysterotomy remains the gold-standard for the closure of a fetal spina bifida because it is the safest and most effective when compared to mini-hysterectomies and a percutaneous two-layer fetoscopy. A mini-hysterotomy procedure is favored for extreme cases of preterm delivery and any complications regarding maternal, fetal, and/or neonatal because of the reduced risks and complications.

Risks and complications
The technique used to repair the hysterotomy is dependent on the surgeon's preference. The method of repair and type of suture affects the risks and complications of receiving a hysterotomy. Hysterotomy incision repair can be done within the intraperitoneal space (in situ) or the uterus can be temporarily removed for repair (exteriorization). Both types of uterine positioning for repair yielded similar lengths of hospital stay, risk of infection, and estimated blood loss. Recovery following uterine exteriorization was found to induce more nausea and be more painful, requiring more post-operative analgesia. Return of bowel function was faster with in situ repair. It was found that between unlocked single-layer closure and double-layer closure, there is no difference in risk of uterine rupture, however the risk of rupture is increased with a locked single-layer suture.

Following the repair of the incision, a scar defect may form, which is defined as a thinning of uterine muscle at the incision site. These uterine scar defects are associated with increased risk of uterine rupture and scar separation. Scar defects may increase the risk of complications such as abnormal bleeding, pain, ectopic pregnancy, and infertility.

During caesarean section
Caesarean sections require a large incision of the uterus, which can lead to complications such as blood loss, postoperative pain, anaemia due to continuing blood loss, fever and possible wound infection, breastfeeding issues, difficulty passing urine, future fertility problems, and/or possible complications in future pregnancies including uterine rupture.

During fetal surgery
In fetal surgery, without inhibition of uterine contractions, uterine irritability and premature labor are complications that occur very frequently in of hysterotomy cases. It can be inhibited by anti-contraction medications. Preterm birth and early membrane rupture (PPROM) are common risks for fetal therapies. For most cases, fetoscopic surgery, which minimizes the damage to the uterus, is preferred to mitigate risks and complications. Membrane sealing and fixation has been investigated for reducing PPROM risk, but it has not been found to be clinically beneficial.

Scar ectopic pregnancy
Scar ectopic pregnancy is a rare form of ectopic pregnancy, however, when it does occur it causes complications in pregnancy such as abnormal uterine bleeding and uterine rupture. The mechanism of how scar ectopic pregnancy still remains unknown. However, the possibility that defects may form to the scarring from previous procedures/traumas such as caesarean section, dilation, hysterotomy, abnormal placentation can cause scar ectopic pregnancy.

Hysterotomy abortion
There are two categories of complications with surgical abortions, minor and major. Minor complications are procedural pain, bleeding, infection and common anesthesia complications. The more serious and major complications include hemorrhage, sepsis, peritonitis, deep vein thrombosis and death.

Types
There are many different types of hysterotomies depending on the location and direction of the incision. Typically, a low transverse incision is preferred during a caesarean section. This area of the uterus has less vasculature and therefore provides lower risk of hemorrhage during the procedure for the patient. Incisions in the lower area of the uterus is also associated with lower risks of uterine rupture. There may be times in which the lower transverse incision does not provide adequate space and therefore, expansions of the low transverse incisions have led to the creation of the low transverse incision with T-extension in the midline, low transverse incision with J-extension, and low transverse incision with U-extension. A low vertical incision and a midline incision, also known as a classic caesarean incision, may be preferred during a labor that is preterm. Since the lower uterine segment is not yet fully developed during a preterm labor, these two incisions are preferred in order to provide adequate space for manipulations during delivery of the fetus. A low transverse incision would not provide adequate space and could entrap the fetal head therefore risking intercranial hemorrhage, morbidity and mortality for the fetus. A midline incision may be preferred as well when the fetus lies transversely across the patient's uterus or if the placenta lies in the area where the low transverse incision is made. In practice, however, the midline incision is rarely used. Other hysterotomy incisions include a high transverse incision and a fundal incision. A fundal incision may be used if the placenta is placed behind the anterior wall of the uterus and therefore making typical incisions much more risky for hemorrhage.

Incision
A hysterotomy can be performed by various methods. Typically a small incision is made with a scalpel about 1–2 cm long. During a blunt expansion, the incision is expanded by the surgeon's index fingers or other blunt dissection tools. During a sharp expansion, bandage scissors are used to cut a larger incision. Some professionals will say that the sharp expansion allows for a more controlled entry into the uterus and a faster delivery of the fetus. Other professionals will say the blunt expansion allows for reduced risk of hemorrhaging or excessive bleeding and improves healing for the patient.

Closure
A hysterotomy is completed by closing the uterus either by using a stapler or by suture, no significant differences have been noted to show one technique takes precedent over another. The muscular outer layer of the uterus in all samples of closures showed some inflammation and thickening/scarring of the tissue. In the event a midline incision is used, three layers of sutures are performed to repair the uterine wall. An interrupted suture is used to close the first and second layer and a continuous locking suture or figure-of-eight suture is used to close the third layer. Since in practice the low transverse incision is typically made, the incision is also typically closed with two layers of sutures. Though, there is a debate on whether the suture should be close with a single layer or a double layer of sutures. Double layer of sutures can promote improved healing, hemostasis and less risk of uterine rupture in the next pregnancy, whereas single layer of sutures allows for less operation time, less tissue disruption and decreased exposure to foreign suture material.

title: Hysterotomy


text:
User talk:Kickstart70

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Palin
Hi. I notice that you've reformatted this article. I was wondering what the reason is, and whether this has been done for many other articles. It looks kind of cluttered and unusual now, with text sandwiched between the infobox and the Table of Contents. Any chance I could persuade you to restore the prior format? Thanks.Ferrylodge (talk) 22:53, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks for the note. Looks like you did it for both Sarah Palin as well as Political positions of Sarah Palin.  The change for Political positions of Sarah Palin makes more sense to me.  In contrast, Sarah Palin has a TOC on the la\eft and an infobox on the right, so there's really not much white space.Ferrylodge (talk) 23:41, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I've only undone the one at political positions of sarah palin, because I wanted to try making the image bigger and adding a template above it. I have not reverted the one at sarah palin, because I was hoping you might.  As I said, the text is now sandwiched between the infobox and the TOC, which does not look good to me.  If it's restored, then the infobox on the right will take up a lot of the white space.

 * BTW, I don't think your signature came out right in your recent Sarah Palin talk page comment.Ferrylodge (talk) 23:49, 13 September 2008 (UTC)

List of people named...
I note that you removed the list of Jennifers from Jennifer (given name), citing Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Anthroponymy. Which section on that talk page did you have in mind? The project did not achieve consensus on this matter. For the most popular names, I sought approval for a selective summary of most-famous people, but the example which I most liked (Sarah (given name)) has since been changed to a less selective list. I propose to revert your removal; otherwise editors will add the list on the disambiguation page again. - Fayenatic (talk) 16:39, 15 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Heya...barring consensus, I've reverted back to the lack of list as discussed previously. I still stand by my decision that any such list is guaranteed to be flawed. How do we determine who is notable enough for listing? Current famous-ness? Why is Jennifer Aniston (one actress, listed) more notable than Jennifer Beals (another actress, not listed) or Jennifer Jason Leigh (actress, also not listed)? Is any actress more notable than a famous author (Jennifer Crusie, not listed) or an award-winning movie director (Jennifer Jako, not listed)? Basically, who determines this, and more importantly, who gets dropped off the list when someone "more notable" comes along? This sort of list becomes a popularity contest, with Wikipedia editors failing to keep to WP:NPOV by any edit of it. -- Kickstart70 - T - C 03:58, 17 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Apologies, I didn't remember you from that discussion. Thanks for restarting it. I'd suggest that you might hold off from wholescale list deletions while we try again for a policy consensus. - Fayenatic (talk) 14:51, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

Aoki's Pizza
I removed your notability tag; a pizza chain in various places in Japan is clearly a notable subject. However, I replaced it with an to show that the article needs to be expanded. WhisperToMe (talk) 22:37, 12 October 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/B.R. Guest
Please see my comments at Articles for deletion/B.R. Guest. I added some references to the article. -- Eastmain (talk) 23:43, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Restaurants
Keep up the good work on this. Wikipedia is not a restaurant guide. Proxy User (talk) 17:51, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

WP:RESTAURANT
In order for this to have a chance, I do think you're going to need to go through old AFDs and find examples of what the community has traditionally found non-notable and why. Guidelines can only describe what has been done in the past, not dictate what to do in the future. Good reasoning doesn't work without AFD precedent. I tried something similar to this years ago with my guideline for notability of royalty and it ended up stalled in limbo. Basing it on an arbitrary set of rules—no matter how sensible they are—dooms the project from the start. Check out the early talk history of that one for what not to do. Kafziel Complaint Department 14:34, 2 November 2008 (UTC)

Bonnie George Campbell
It was a bit difficult, it could have been either No Consensus or Keep, it ran for 4 days and 21 hours by my math, so I doubt many more people would have commented if it was extended. Best.  MBisanz  talk 04:34, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Request at WP:HD
Hi. You made a request at WP:HD, linking to an articles for deletion vote. I've removed it, because it per WP:CANVASS, as this is not the appropriate venue for soliciting for or fixing the AfD discussion. If you believe malpractice has occurred on the discussion, WP:ANI is probably the best location, but otherwise, please remember that AfD is a community discussion, and all editors are entitled to their opinion. Best, Peter Symonds ( talk ) 17:35, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Either way, the Help Desk is the wrong place for such requests. That venue is for requesting help with Wikipedia's guidelines, policies, general editing assistance, etc. As I say, unless there has been malpractice on the discussion itself, it's a community issue; please discuss it on a page like AN/ANI. Best, Peter Symonds ( talk ) 17:39, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure where to make this comment, as Kickstart seems to want to break up the conversation onto multiple pages, but I wanted to throw in my two cents. First, although I wouldn't go so far as to call it canvassing, it was very premature to take this issue to the help desk - what are admins supposed to do about it? AfD is a process, and if you want to change the entire process, then pitch a fleshed-out alternative in the village pump. Otherwise, it is what it is - and nothing is happening at this particular AfD that is significantly out of process. Second, give it time. Third, have faith that the closing admin will take all arguments into account and weight them according to how well they match policy. AfD is not a vote, and closing admins are aware of that. Fourth, don't take it so personally when other people disagree with you or don't seem to understand Wikipedia's inclusion policies as well as you do. Tan   |   39  17:41, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the response....the split in conversation was just timing. I saw the canvassing change in history before I saw PS's post here. The problem is that I've seen this happen for weeks now, and very much not only on my Afds. I don't think it used to be this bad. Currently there's a massive volume of daily Afds and I'm assuming that closing admins are overwhelmed and unable to take the time to judge the contents thoroughly. I don't blame them, but it's exceedingly frustrating. Therefore, the appearance is that the Afds are becoming votes. -- Kickstart70 T C 17:46, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

 * (e/cx2 - this is probably redundant now! :))Yes, I apologise, I misinterpreted one of the sentences on your post. I retract the canvassing bit. However, my point in itself still stands, that (from what I can see) no actual malpractice has occurred. A community issue is best discussed elsewhere, but please bear in mind that the Help Desk has quite a limited scope. It's there to discuss policies in existence, rather than as a forum to change them. Best, Peter Symonds ( talk ) 17:47, 16 November 2008 (UTC)
 * (undent) Ok, except I am not asking for the policies to be changed either (they are very good policies). I suppose what I need is a conversation on enforcing those policies, rather than editing them. -- Kickstart70 T C 17:50, 16 November 2008 (UTC)

Kickstart, may I respectfully suggest you help delete some of the crap articles at AfD instead of arguing with people who come to a different conclusion than you do on borderlines cases. I'm not saying you can't discuss or bring up points in the context of the debate, but I don't see a need to engage in individual battles or arguments with others when they don't agree with you. We're giving our best judgements. Or am I wrong? :) ChildofMidnight (talk) 22:39, 20 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Not sure where that came from. I don't think I've been anything but respectful and attempting to make Wikipedia a better place by my edits and ideas. Do I have differing opinions on the best way to improve things? Absolutely. And I'm striving to reach consensus without just leaving things as they are because I see things are not working as well as they could be (or should, were people following what consensus has already been reached). I am, and always have been, 100% willing to compromise. Unfortunately I'm not seeing the same from anyone else. FWIW, each time I've added an Afd, I've sought to give an opinion on two or more Afds that other editors have submitted. I'm not sure that I should be expected to do more than that. I guess, however, no one gives barnstars for strong opinions, even with the best of intentions :( -- Kickstart70 T C 04:18, 21 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I apologize, I don't think I phrased my comment very well. I did not intend it as a criticism. I was merely attempting to make a friendly suggestion and offering my two cents. I'm not telling you what to say, what to do, or how to conduct an AfD. I was just suggesting that you seem to be very invested in the outcome of your AfDs. I am absolutely not suggesting any kind of bad faith or that you haven't been totally respectful.

 * I do think it's a bit unfair that you say no one is willing to compromise. In fact several restaurant articles haven't made the cut at recent AfDs and have been eliminated, including one fairly sizable chain. So cheer up! I was just trying to suggest that people reach different conclusions on the same set of facts. So give us a little credit for taking the time to weigh in and reach our own conclusions on the merits of deleting a particular article.

 * As a side note, I still am not clear on exactly which restaurants you actually think qualify for inclusion. Brasserie Les Halles has been the subject of cookbooks, is a fairly well established upscale restaurant of high repute in several cities with a substantial history, and is associated with one of the biggest foodie personalities on television. What more can we offer??? :)

 * Take care. Have fun. Sorry if I my poorly phrased insights (or lack thereof) caused any disruption. ChildofMidnight (talk) 06:05, 21 November 2008 (UTC)

In answer to your request in the "discussion" portion of Wikipedia "RhubarB', a photo of a 3-year-old rhubarb root ball is available at www.HighAltitudeRhubarb.com Enjoy.

Jack Vaughan
Dear Kick: Did you ever find out any info on Jack Vaughan who did the cartoons for TMEN? Stan: saunleman@gmail.com. Thanks. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.36.61.132 (talk) 18:34, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

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Stock selection article
Hi, please see my reply in the Talk section of the Stock selection criteria article, as I need feedback from copyeditors with more experience and knowledge on this particular subject. Thanks!--Soulparadox (talk) 01:24, 12 December 2012 (UTC)

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ArbCom elections are now open!
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Userfriendly
I understood somewhere that you know something about that now down userfriendly website. If you still are or have contacts I could have a look at what's there. I'm an old sysop/sysadm, now retired with too much time on my hands. Thanks. Antti Anttir717 (talk) 15:09, 10 November 2022 (UTC)

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title: User talk:Kickstart70


text:
Morley's theorem

Morley's theorem may refer to:

 * Morley's trisector theorem, a theorem in geometry, discovered by Frank Morley
 * Morley's categoricity theorem, a theorem in model theory, discovered by Michael D. Morley

title: Morley's theorem


text:
Trip distribution

Trip distribution (or destination choice or zonal interchange analysis) is the second component (after trip generation, but before mode choice and route assignment) in the traditional four-step transportation forecasting model. This step matches tripmakers’ origins and destinations to develop a “trip table”, a matrix that displays the number of trips going from each origin to each destination. Historically, this component has been the least developed component of the transportation planning model.

Where: Tij = trips from origin i to destination j. Note that the practical value of trips on the diagonal, e.g. from zone 1 to zone 1, is zero since no intra-zonal trip occurs. Work trip distribution is the way that travel demand models understand how people take jobs. There are trip distribution models for other (non-work) activities such as the choice of location for grocery shopping, which follow the same structure.

History
Over the years, modelers have used several different formulations of trip distribution. The first was the Fratar or Growth model (which did not differentiate trips by purpose). This structure extrapolated a base year trip table to the future based on growth, but took no account of changing spatial accessibility due to increased supply or changes in travel patterns and congestion. (Simple Growth factor model, Furness Model and Detroit model are models developed at the same time period)

The next models developed were the gravity model and the intervening opportunities model. The most widely used formulation is still the gravity model.

While studying traffic in Baltimore, Maryland, Alan Voorhees developed a mathematical formula to predict traffic patterns based on land use. This formula has been instrumental in the design of numerous transportation and public works projects around the world. He wrote "A General Theory of Traffic Movement," (Voorhees, 1956) which applied the gravity model to trip distribution, which translates trips generated in an area to a matrix that identifies the number of trips from each origin to each destination, which can then be loaded onto the network.

Evaluation of several model forms in the 1960s concluded that "the gravity model and intervening opportunity model proved of about equal reliability and utility in simulating the 1948 and 1955 trip distribution for Washington, D.C." (Heanue and Pyers 1966). The Fratar model was shown to have weakness in areas experiencing land use changes. As comparisons between the models showed that either could be calibrated equally well to match observed conditions, because of computational ease, gravity models became more widely spread than intervening opportunities models. Some theoretical problems with the intervening opportunities model were discussed by Whitaker and West (1968) concerning its inability to account for all trips generated in a zone which makes it more difficult to calibrate, although techniques for dealing with the limitations have been developed by Ruiter (1967).

With the development of logit and other discrete choice techniques, new, demographically disaggregate approaches to travel demand were attempted. By including variables other than travel time in determining the probability of making a trip, it is expected to have a better prediction of travel behavior. The logit model and gravity model have been shown by Wilson (1967) to be of essentially the same form as used in statistical mechanics, the entropy maximization model. The application of these models differs in concept in that the gravity model uses impedance by travel time, perhaps stratified by socioeconomic variables, in determining the probability of trip making, while a discrete choice approach brings those variables inside the utility or impedance function. Discrete choice models require more information to estimate and more computational time.

Ben-Akiva and Lerman (1985) have developed combination destination choice and mode choice models using a logit formulation for work and non-work trips. Because of computational intensity, these formulations tended to aggregate traffic zones into larger districts or rings in estimation. In current application, some models, including for instance the transportation planning model used in Portland, Oregon, use a logit formulation for destination choice. Allen (1984) used utilities from a logit based mode choice model in determining composite impedance for trip distribution. However, that approach, using mode choice log-sums implies that destination choice depends on the same variables as mode choice. Levinson and Kumar (1995) employ mode choice probabilities as a weighting factor and develop a specific impedance function or “f-curve” for each mode for work and non-work trip purposes.

Mathematics
At this point in the transportation planning process, the information for zonal interchange analysis is organized in an origin-destination table. On the left is listed trips produced in each zone. Along the top are listed the zones, and for each zone we list its attraction. The table is n x n, where n = the number of zones.

Each cell in our table is to contain the number of trips from zone i to zone j. We do not have these within-cell numbers yet, although we have the row and column totals. With data organized this way, our task is to fill in the cells for tables headed t = 1 through say t = n.

Actually, from home interview travel survey data and attraction analysis we have the cell information for t = 1. The data are a sample, so we generalize the sample to the universe. The techniques used for zonal interchange analysis explore the empirical rule that fits the t = 1 data. That rule is then used to generate cell data for t = 2, t = 3, t = 4, etc., to t = n.

The first technique developed to model zonal interchange involves a model such as this:

T_{ij} = T_i\frac

$$

where: Zone i generates Ti trips; how many will go to zone j? That depends on the attractiveness of j compared to the attractiveness of all places; attractiveness is tempered by the distance a zone is from zone i. We compute the fraction comparing j to all places and multiply T;i by it.
 * $$T_{ij}$$ : trips from i to j.
 * $$T_i$$ : trips from i, as per our generation analysis
 * $$A_j$$ : trips attracted to j, according to generation analysis
 * $$f(C_{ij})$$ : travel cost friction factor, say = $$C_{ij}^b$$
 * $$K_{ij}$$ : Calibration parameter

The rule is often of a gravity form:

T_{ij} = a\frac

$$

where:
 * $$P_i; P_j$$ : populations of i  and  j
 * $$a; b$$ : parameters

But in the zonal interchange mode, we use numbers related to trip origins (T;i) and trip destinations (T;j) rather than populations.

There are many model forms because we may use weights and special calibration parameters, e.g., one could write say:

T_{ij} = a\frac

$$

or

T_{ij} = \frac

$$

where:
 * a, b, c, d are parameters
 * $$C_{ij}$$ : travel cost (e.g. distance, money, time)
 * $$T_j$$ : inbound trips, destinations
 * $$T_i$$ : outbound trips, origin

Gravity model
The gravity model illustrates the macroscopic relationships between places (say homes and workplaces). It has long been posited that the interaction between two locations declines with increasing (distance, time, and cost) between them, but is positively associated with the amount of activity at each location (Isard, 1956). In analogy with physics, Reilly (1929) formulated Reilly's law of retail gravitation, and J. Q. Stewart (1948) formulated definitions of demographic gravitation, force, energy, and potential, now called accessibility (Hansen, 1959). The distance decay factor of 1/distance has been updated to a more comprehensive function of generalized cost, which is not necessarily linear - a negative exponential tends to be the preferred form.

The gravity model has been corroborated many times as a basic underlying aggregate relationship (Scott 1988, Cervero 1989, Levinson and Kumar 1995). The rate of decline of the interaction (called alternatively, the impedance or friction factor, or the utility or propensity function) has to be empirically measured, and varies by context.

Limiting the usefulness of the gravity model is its aggregate nature. Though policy also operates at an aggregate level, more accurate analyses will retain the most detailed level of information as long as possible. While the gravity model is very successful in explaining the choice of a large number of individuals, the choice of any given individual varies greatly from the predicted value. As applied in an urban travel demand context, the disutilities are primarily time, distance, and cost, although discrete choice models with the application of more expansive utility expressions are sometimes used, as is stratification by income or vehicle ownership.

Mathematically, the gravity model often takes the form:

T_{ij} = K_i K_j T_i T_j f(C_{ij} ) $$

\sum_j {T_{ij} = T_i } ,\sum_i {T_{ij}  = T_j } $$

K_i = \frac{1} ,K_j = \frac{1}

$$

where
 * $$T_{ij}$$ = Trips between origin i and destination j
 * $$T_i$$ = Trips originating at i
 * $$T_j$$ = Trips destined for j
 * $$C_{ij}$$ = travel cost between i and j
 * $$K_i, K_j$$ = balancing factors solved iteratively. See Iterative proportional fitting.
 * $$f$$ = distance decay factor, as in the accessibility model

It is doubly constrained, in the sense that for any i the total number of trips from i predicted by the model always (mechanically, for any parameter values) equals the real total number of trips from i. Similarly, the total number of trips to j predicted by the model equals the real total number of trips to j, for any j.

Entropy analysis
Wilson (1970) gives another way to think about zonal interchange problem. This section treats Wilson’s methodology to give a grasp of central ideas.

To start, consider some trips where there are seven people in origin zones commuting to seven jobs in destination zones. One configuration of such trips will be:

w\left( {T_{ij} } \right) = \frac = 1260 $$

where 0! = 1.

That configuration can appear in 1,260 ways. We have calculated the number of ways that configuration of trips might have occurred, and to explain the calculation, let’s recall those coin tossing experiments talked about so much in elementary statistics.

The number of ways a two-sided coin can come up is $$2^n$$, where n is the number of times we toss the coin. If we toss the coin once, it can come up heads or tails, $$2^1 = 2$$. If we toss it twice, it can come up HH, HT, TH, or TT, four ways, and $$2^2 = 4$$. To ask the specific question about, say, four coins coming up all heads, we calculate $$4!/(4!0!) = 1$$. Two heads and two tails would be $$4!/(2!2!) = 6$$. We are solving the equation:

w = \frac

$$

An important point is that as n gets larger, our distribution gets more and more peaked, and it is more and more reasonable to think of a most likely state.

However, the notion of most likely state comes not from this thinking; it comes from statistical mechanics, a field well known to Wilson and not so well known to transportation planners. The result from statistical mechanics is that a descending series is most likely. Think about the way the energy from lights in the classroom is affecting the air in the classroom. If the effect resulted in an ascending series, many of the atoms and molecules would be affected a lot and a few would be affected a little. The descending series would have many affected not at all or not much and only a few affected very much. We could take a given level of energy and compute excitation levels in ascending and descending series. Using the formula above, we would compute the ways particular series could occur, and we would conclude that descending series dominate.

That is more-or-less Boltzmann's Law,

p_j = p_0 e^{\beta e_j } $$

That is, the particles at any particular excitation level j will be a negative exponential function of the particles in the ground state, $$p_0$$, the excitation level, $$e_j$$, and a parameter $$\beta$$, which is a function of the (average) energy available to the particles in the system.

The two paragraphs above have to do with ensemble methods of calculation developed by Gibbs, a topic well beyond the reach of these notes.

Returning to the O-D matrix, note that we have not used as much information as we would have from an O and D survey and from our earlier work on trip generation. For the same travel pattern in the O-D matrix used before, we would have row and column totals, i.e.:

Consider the way the four folks might travel, 4!/(2!1!1!) = 12; consider three folks, 3!/(0!2!1!) = 3. All travel can be combined in 12×3 = 36 ways. The possible configuration of trips is, thus, seen to be much constrained by the column and row totals.

We put this point together with the earlier work with our matrix and the notion of most likely state to say that we want to

\max w\left( {T_{ij} } \right) = \frac $$

subject to

\sum_j {T_{ij} = T_i } ; \sum_i {T_{ij} = T_j } $$

where:

T = \sum_j {\sum_i {T_{ij} } } = \sum_i {T_i }  = \sum_j {T_j } $$

and this is the problem that we have solved above.

Wilson adds another consideration; he constrains the system to the amount of energy available (i.e., money), and we have the additional constraint,

\sum_i {\sum_j {T_{ij} C_{ij} = C} } $$

where C is the quantity of resources available and $$C_{ij}$$ is the travel cost from i to j.

The discussion thus far contains the central ideas in Wilson’s work, but we are not yet to the place where the reader will recognize the model as it is formulated by Wilson.

First, writing the $$\Lambda$$ function to be maximized using Lagrangian multipliers, we have:

\Lambda(T_{ij},\lambda_i,\lambda_j) = \frac + \sum_i {\lambda _i \left( {T_i - \sum_j {T_{ij} } } \right)}  + \sum_j {\lambda _j \left( {T_j  - \sum_i {T_{ij} } } \right) + \beta \left( {C - \sum_i {\sum_j {T_{ij} C_{ij} } } } \right)} $$

where $$\lambda_i, \lambda_j$$ and $$\beta$$ are the Lagrange multipliers, $$\beta$$ having an energy sense.

Second, it is convenient to maximize the natural log (ln) rather than $$w(T_{ij})$$, for then we may use Stirling's approximation.

\ln N! \approx N\ln N - N $$

so

\frac \approx \ln N $$

Third, evaluating the maximum, we have

\frac = - \ln T_{ij}  - \lambda _i  - \lambda _j  - \beta C_{ij}  = 0 $$

with solution

\ln T_{ij} =  - \lambda _i  - \lambda _j  - \beta C_{ij} $$

T_{ij} = e^{ - \lambda _i  - \lambda _j  - \beta C_{ij} } $$

Finally, substituting this value of $$T_{ij}$$ back into our constraint equations, we have:

\sum_j {e^{ - \lambda _i - \lambda _j  - \beta C_{ij} } }  = T_i; \sum_i {e^{ - \lambda _i - \lambda _j  - \beta C_{ij} } }  = T_j $$

and, taking the constant multiples outside of the summation sign

e^{ - \lambda _i } = \frac
 * e^{ - \lambda _j } = \frac

$$

Let

\frac = A_i ;\frac = B_j $$

we have

T_{ij} = A_i B_j T_i T_j e^{ - \beta C_{ij} } $$

which says that the most probable distribution of trips has a gravity model form, $$T_{ij}$$ is proportional to trip origins and destinations. The constants $$A_i$$, $$B_j$$, and $$\beta$$ ensure that constraints are met.

Turning now to computation, we have a large problem. First, we do not know the value of C, which earlier on we said had to do with the money available, it was a cost constraint. Consequently, we have to set $$\beta$$ to different values and then find the best set of values for $$A_i$$ and $$B_j$$. We know what $$\beta$$ means – the greater the value of $$\beta$$, the less the cost of average distance traveled. (Compare $$\beta$$ in Boltzmann's Law noted earlier.) Second, the values of $$A_i$$ and $$B_j$$ depend on each other. So for each value of $$\beta$$, we must use an iterative solution. There are computer programs to do this.

Wilson's method has been applied to the Lowry model.

Congestion
One of the key drawbacks to the application of many early models was the inability to take account of congested travel time on the road network in determining the probability of making a trip between two locations. Although Wohl noted as early as 1963 research into the feedback mechanism or the “interdependencies among assigned or distributed volume, travel time (or travel ‘resistance’) and route or system capacity”, this work has yet to be widely adopted with rigorous tests of convergence, or with a so-called “equilibrium” or “combined” solution (Boyce et al. 1994). Haney (1972) suggests internal assumptions about travel time used to develop demand should be consistent with the output travel times of the route assignment of that demand. While small methodological inconsistencies are necessarily a problem for estimating base year conditions, forecasting becomes even more tenuous without an understanding of the feedback between supply and demand. Initially heuristic methods were developed by Irwin and Von Cube and others, and later formal mathematical programming techniques were established by Suzanne Evans.

Stability of travel times
A key point in analyzing feedback is the finding in earlier research that commuting times have remained stable over the past thirty years in the Washington Metropolitan Region, despite significant changes in household income, land use pattern, family structure, and labor force participation. Similar results have been found in the Twin Cities

The stability of travel times and distribution curves over the past three decades gives a good basis for the application of aggregate trip distribution models for relatively long term forecasting. This is not to suggest that there exists a constant travel time budget.

title: Trip distribution


text:
User:Junster

Hello, my real name is Ryan Larson

You can visit my website at junster.com

--Junster 19:58, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: User:Junster


text:
File:R.E.M. - Around the Sun.jpg

Licensing
Cover of R.E.M.'s 2004 album Around the Sun.

title: File:R.E.M. - Around the Sun.jpg


text:
User:Holger I.

...
...

de:Benutzer:Blaite fr:Utilisateur:Blaite

title: User:Holger I.


text:
Talk:Filippo Brunelleschi

Filippo Brunelleschi
It's me again and I just wanted to say that I'm makeing a project on Filippo Brunelleschi and i'm learning that he is a pretty cool guy (he built the largest masonry dome in the world, the Santa Maria del Fiore), thats all. Wizkid1

- Hey guys, do any of you guys know where I can find some primary sources on Brunelleschi? I am doing a History paper on him and I have not been able to find one document specifically written about him while he was alive. The closest thing is a book by Vasari but it was written 104 years after Brunelleschi died. any suggestions. The Paper is due middle of November '07. Any help will be greatly appreciated. I know a lot about him already, I just need the sources to bring credibility to my arguments. 09/08/07. Agnobles

Filippo Brunelleschi
I'm working on a project on Filippo and I was wondering if anyone had any websites that would help me with my reseach if any one has any information please leave a comment...Thank you

How interesting is this? I am also doing a project on Brunelleschi and I have a question about the doors to the baptistry, did he do it or did he let the other guy do it? Sites on the internet say either this or that. Any real fact you have?

Ghiberti got the door job. And remember to sign and date your posts; I have no idea if this information is helpful to you because I don't know how old this post is.--DarshaAssant 10:27, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandalism
Why does this article get vandalised more than other comparable articles, e.g. other past architects? AWhiteC 21:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't know but it does seem to get hit frequently - just look at the history in the last few days alone. What to do?  Nick In BigD  (Hey!) 22:14, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

 * This article has a long "What links here" list; maybe that's the reason it tends to be more targeted than other articles. What to do? Some people, like us, need to have it on our watch lists; "Friends of Brunelleschi"? AWhiteC 23:10, 23 May 2007 (UTC)

 * I've noticed that Vasari gets a lot of vandalism too. Maybe it's frustrated school kids who are aggravate about their art research assignments.  Nick In BigD  (Hey!) 05:24, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
 * That's probably it. I had to revert to an older version again. I came across this when working on a paper for AP European History - I shouldn't use Wikipedia for this kind of thing, I always spend longer making revisions here than on my own essays! Ministry of Silly Walks 02:02, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

multiple breakthroughs by Brunnelesci
the breakthrough level of Brunellesci is not shown in the article as for these next major inventions/ reinventions

as where no one could figure out to build the dome of the Duomo in Florence, Italy without internal supports all way down to the floor (that dome is up 200 feet in the air way way high up) but Bruenlesci did it, figured it out, by herring bone pattern of brick laying which spreads the weight evenly and in balance, without needing to have internal support for the dome

IF YOU "ADD" ALSO chains about the dome that HOLD IN the outward push of the weight... figured out by Brunellesci having studied the Pantheon in Rome including its iron collar which also acts to hold in the outward push of its dome's weight ... (Pantheon has an unsupported dome 150 feet high and also with no internal supports)

these things today no one can understand and understand the precise weight and method of solving the outward push problem except by using a computer ...

also a 3rd brunelesci huge invention that is claimed changed all architecture is his figuring out and understnading "single point perspective" ... mentioned in the article but needing further explanation here in these notes or the article by an expert...

it is claimed this changed architecture from then until to today and onward into the future ... esp allowing putting down on paper architectual plans while before that was not able to be done...

(the history channel has info on this or history engineering channel) note the Greeks IT APPEARS TO ME understood all this from the get go as DEMONSTRATED by the Parthenon with its multiple inventions of using curves in perspective to appear to the mind as correct when in fact entirely curved as the column curves in the Parthenon and the bldgs length wise "bow" or curve... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.216.68.176 (talk) 08:02, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Patents
A few suggested improvements regarding his patent or patents: I can try to make these changes myself but don't have time right now to verify things. -- Sharpner (talk) 14:41, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The mention of Brunelleschi's first patent ("Brunelleschi was granted the 1st modern patent for his invention of a river transport vessel") is an apparent non sequitur tacked on to the section on construction of the dome. I take it he invented the vessel to assist in the construction of the dome, and if so, the connection ought to be made explicit. Perhaps this should be moved to the following section, where the vessel (Il Badalone) is mentioned but the patent is not.
 * The significance of the patent in the history of intellectual property could also be better emphasized. See, for example, http://www.cpaglobal.com/ip-review-online/widgets/notes_quotes/more/2002 or http://www.ibiblio.org/patents/txt/032994.txt. I gather that prior "letters patent" were granted providing exclusive rights, but that this was the first one based on someone's own inventiveness, rather than giving an exclusive right to employ existing technology. Also, unlike later patents, Brunelleschi wasn't required to divulge the details to the patent authority prior to the grant.
 * It's not clear (either here or from my other reading) whether the patent for the hoist device is a separate patent, or whether the hoist was actually part of the vessel.

 * Sounds useful and relevant. I would suggest making those changes and verifying (with references) later when time permits. AWhiteC (talk) 22:21, 2 July 2008 (UTC)

Cosimo Medici
Why is there nothing on Cosimo's patronage of Brunelleschi. Is it not because of Medici that Brunelleschi was able to work on the church? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.69.138.62 (talk) 22:16, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * There is mention in Cosimo de' Medici of the latter funding Brunelleschi's work on the cathedral dome. Perhaps that is enough. More however could be said about Medici rule and patronage, as in Strathern's book on the subject. AWhiteC (talk) 00:17, 5 May 2009 (UTC)
 * ??? If there is mention, I certainly don't see it; a quick use of an internet browser finder shows that the words "Cosimo" and "Medici" are nowhere to be found in this article. I find this to be absolutely incredible, considering how Brunelleschi's career as an architect was almost exclusively the result of Medici patronage, when other elite Florentine families wanted nothing to do with the man. Judging from this alone, I would say this article needs serious work because it leaves out critical information. Readers unfamiliar with the topic will not be able to understand how Brunelleschi even became successful.-- Pericles of Athens  Talk 01:25, 3 March 2010 (UTC)
 * You sound as if you know more than I do. I think it's over to you to contribute ... we (or certainly I) will not be critical – be bold. AWhiteC (talk) 14:53, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

Page vandalized
Not sure why anyone would vandalize this page, but they did. (Removed "His brother Pedro was a real jerk who always used the clean toilet brush. And his sister died in a car accident.")  Levalley (talk) 03:23, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Image replaced - temporarily
I decided to replace the picture of the statue of Brunelleschi with a subset image showing head and torso only. This is an experiment intended to last about a week to see if it somehow (don't ask me how) reduces the extraordinary number of vandal-attacks this page gets. If it seems to work, I might just leave it, though. AWhiteC (talk) 20:02, 22 December 2009 (UTC)

 * It seems to have worked, so I decided to restore the original picture but placed it further down the page, and changed the infobox picture to a portrait I found on the Italian Wikipedia. AWhiteC (talk) 21:47, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

architect or "designer"?
I would be interested to know why Brunelleschi is defined in the article as a "designer"? Is the word "architect" not suitable enough for one of the most famous architects of all times? Am I not understanding someting in the foreign english language? thanks! --Horia mar (talk) 18:07, 7 November 2016 (UTC)

Developing this Article
This article should be edited for conciseness and preciseness, though the existing information is accurate and draws upon several valuable sources. The existing article is appropriate and fairly well written, although the first section under the header "As an architect" ought to be edited and refined. On the whole, the content in the article is relevant and presented neutrally. Some of the existing sources are not scholarly, or are simply encyclopedic. Source links could be updated in some cases, as there are several broken or missing links.

Unfortunately, there is a great deal more information about Brunelleschi and his works that is not included in this article; for example, much more could be written about Brunelleschi's involvement in the construction of the dome at Santa Maria del Fiore. The best way to improve what exists is to develop the existing information and add information from new sources. Grevs152 (talk) 20:50, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

 * Why don't you add in some material about the construction of the dome, citing from a good source? AWhiteC (talk) 22:53, 30 January 2017 (UTC)

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Inventions
Hi! I want to add a bit more about the machines Brunelleschi invented and how they were used in construction. He was more than an architect, he was also an incredible engineer and some things, like his hoists and herringbone brick laying pattern, changed how cathedrals could be built at the time.

title: Talk:Filippo Brunelleschi


text:
Oxygen saturation

Oxygen saturation (symbol S O 2) is a relative measure of the concentration of oxygen that is dissolved or carried in a given medium as a proportion of the maximal concentration that can be dissolved in that medium at the given temperature. It can be measured with a dissolved oxygen probe such as an oxygen sensor or an optode in liquid media, usually water. The standard unit of oxygen saturation is percent (%).

Oxygen saturation can be measured regionally and noninvasively. Arterial oxygen saturation (Sa O 2) is commonly measured using pulse oximetry. Tissue saturation at peripheral scale can be measured using NIRS. This technique can be applied on both muscle and brain.

In medicine
In medicine, oxygen saturation refers to oxygenation, or when oxygen molecules enter the tissues of the body. In this case blood is oxygenated in the lungs, where oxygen molecules travel from the air into the blood. Oxygen saturation ( sats) measures the percentage of hemoglobin binding sites in the bloodstream occupied by oxygen. Fish, invertebrates, plants, and aerobic bacteria all require oxygen.

In environmental science
In aquatic environments, oxygen saturation is a ratio of the concentration of "dissolved oxygen" (DO, O2), to the maximum amount of oxygen that will dissolve in that water body, at the temperature and pressure which constitute stable equilibrium conditions. Well-aerated water (such as a fast-moving stream) without oxygen producers or consumers is 100% saturated.

It is possible for stagnant water to become somewhat supersaturated with oxygen (i.e. reach more than 100% saturation) either because of the presence of photosynthetic aquatic oxygen producers or because of a slow equilibration after a change of atmospheric conditions. Stagnant water in the presence of decaying matter will typically have an oxygen concentration much less than 100%, which is due to anaerobic bacteria being much less efficient at breaking down organic material. Similarly as in water, oxygen concentration also plays a key role in the breakdown of organic matter in soils. Higher oxygen saturation allows for aerobic bacteria to persist, which break down decaying organic material in soils much more efficiently than anaerobic bacteria. Thus soils with high oxygen saturation will have less organic matter per volume than those with low oxygen saturation.

Environmental oxygenation can be important to the sustainability of a particular ecosystem. The US Environmental Protection Agency has published a table of maximum equilibrium dissolved oxygen concentration versus temperature at atmospheric pressure. The optimal levels in an estuary for dissolved oxygen is higher than 6 ppm. Insufficient oxygen (environmental hypoxia), often caused by the decomposition of organic matter and/or nutrient pollution, may occur in bodies of water such as ponds and rivers, tending to suppress the presence of aerobic organisms such as fish. Deoxygenation increases the relative population of anaerobic organisms such as plants and some bacteria, resulting in fish kills and other adverse events. The net effect is to alter the balance of nature by increasing the concentration of anaerobic over aerobic species.

title: Oxygen saturation


text:
User talk:Bringitnow

Welcome to Wikipedia. Please don't post those letters to the proprietors of World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools. They are not content worthy of an encyclopedia article, and will be repeatedly deleted. RickK 20:00, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

I have asked you nicely to quit posting those letters. Now I will tell you -- if you post them to that article again, I will block you from editing. RickK 05:45, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

I am not biased either pro or con this organization, which I never heard of until I read the article here on Wikipedia. I am biased against the kind of non-encylopedic nonsense you're posting as if it belonged on an encyclopedia. You DO know what an encyclopedia is, don't you? RickK 20:38, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

Using the anon ID 209.33.211.198 to do your editing doesn't change the fact that your edits are unacceptable. Both 209.33.211.198 and your login ID have been blocked for 20 hours. RickK 20:45, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Bringitnow


text:
User talk:Jinhyun park

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Welcome, newcomer!

Here are some useful tips to ease you into the Wikipedia experience:

 * First, take a look at the Wikipedia Tutorial, and perhaps dabble a bit in the test area.
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Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can most easily reach me by posting on my talk page.

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Best of luck, and have fun!

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title: User talk:Jinhyun park