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Talk:List of beaches

I'd really like to see a brief summary of what each beach offers, e.g. maybe just have a line of text, so they'd still all be one-liners, but just so we know what's available.

I added Toronto's Woodbine Bathing Station in this way, i.e. that they have windsurfer rentals, beach volleyball nets setup, as well as a 50 meter olympic pool.

Change to a redirect to a category?
I just reverted a change of this article from a redirect to a category (Category:Beaches by country) to its original contents. I' m not really opposed to replacing this article with a category, but I do think there should be some minimum of discussion before removing what a lot of people have contributed towards. In the end, an actual WP:AfD may be best with the suggestion that it be replaced with a redirect. --StuffOfInterest 12:46, 5 August 2007 (UTC)

 * WP:AFD: "Consider making the page a useful redirect or proposing it be merged rather than deleted. Neither of these actions requires an AfD." How about discussion here on the talk page instead?
 * I redirected because the list was mostly not of beaches (I checked every link to see if it needed to be categorized), wasn't as up to date as the cat, isn't automatically alphabetized like the cat, doesnt have the [+] expanding function of the cat, and the cat desn't require an additional page to be edited. -- Jeandré, 2007-08-08t21:23z

Vietnam Error
The "China Beach" entry under Vietnam links to the TV show "China Beach" instead of an article about the actual beach. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.128.8.150 (talk) 13:51, 16 September 2008 (UTC)

Famous Beaches?
Shouldn't this be renamed as a list of famous beaches rather than just beaches? It would be ridiculously long if every beach in the world was on one page. There are 5 just in my local area that aren't listed.--Lozzaaa

Split in lists by country
Hi. This list must be split into list by country. I'm going to create List of beaches in Spain by now. emijrp (talk) 13:54, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

 * But of course, leave here the most important beaches for every country, and links with main template to the list by country. emijrp (talk) 13:56, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

 *  Reply  - I think that we can start by splitting this list into continents, then splitting into countries from there if needed. --Jax 0677 (talk) 15:14, 31 December 2013 (UTC)
 * All the countries with enough beaches on the list should be split into country lists. Lists by continent could be used for countries with not enough beaches for a country list.--Cattus talk 21:10, 31 January 2014 (UTC)

Photos
Hello, I have reduced all photos to a maximum of 500px as I believe this should be the standard, if you want to make your own page for your country please feel free however there seemed to be a photo war of sorts happening. Please post any discussions below for this topic. Hogie75 12:16, 11 November 2014 (UTC)
 * Hi, well I think it should all be just thumbs, no fix thumbnail sizes. Getting totally rid of photos would not be favourable either. -- Horst-schlaemma (talk) 14:41, 11 November 2014 (UTC)

Orphaned references in List of beaches
I check pages listed in Category:Pages with incorrect ref formatting to try to fix reference errors. One of the things I do is look for content for orphaned references in wikilinked articles. I have found content for some of List of beaches's orphans, the problem is that I found more than one version. I can't determine which (if any) is correct for this article, so I am asking for a sentient editor to look it over and copy the correct ref content into this article.

Reference named "Map": From Castries Quarter:  From Vieux Fort Quarter:  From Dennery Quarter:  From Laborie Quarter:  From Canaries Quarter:  From Gros Islet Quarter:

I apologize if any of the above are effectively identical; I am just a simple computer program, so I can't determine whether minor differences are significant or not. AnomieBOT ⚡ 00:01, 20 September 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:List of beaches


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Ensemble (fluid mechanics)

In continuum mechanics, an ensemble is an imaginary collection of notionally identical experiments.

Each member of the ensemble will have nominally identical boundary conditions and fluid properties. If the flow is turbulent, the details of the fluid motion will differ from member to member because the experimental setup will be microscopically different; and these slight differences become magnified as time progresses. Members of an ensemble are, by definition, statistically independent of one another. The concept of ensemble is useful in thought experiments and to improve theoretical understanding of turbulence.

A good image to have in mind is a typical fluid mechanics experiment such as a mixing box. Imagine a million mixing boxes, distributed over the earth; at a predetermined time, a million fluid mechanics engineers each start one experiment, and monitor the flow. Each engineer then sends his or her results to a central database. Such a process would give results that are close to the theoretical ideal of an ensemble.

It is common to speak of ensemble average or ensemble averaging when considering a fluid mechanical ensemble.

For a completely unrelated type of averaging, see Reynolds-averaged Navier–Stokes equations (the two types of averaging are often confused).

The idea of the ensemble is discussed further in the article Statistical ensemble (mathematical physics).

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Ensemble (fluid mechanics)


text:
User:John Fader

Stuff I did
keydrive, passport, Berti Vogts, USB mass storage interface, Universal Serial Bus, Kimberly Fortier, Red triangle, Dirty Harry, Tharg the Mighty, Barrowland Ballroom, Wide Field and Planetary Camera 2, Boreham, Saajid Badat, Police Service of Northern Ireland, Hugh Orde, Gunther von Hagens, Black Mesa, Arizona, Black Mesa, Hervé Gaymard, Thierry Breton, Tit for Tat, Sonny Landham, Fresh Air, Iranian Embassy Siege, Wasfi al-Tal, Northern Bank robbery, Scutum (shield), Royal Ulster Constabulary, Deep fried Mars bar, XScreenSaver, Global dimming, Sophia University, Robert Stirling, Technology in Atlas Shrugged, Gray's Anatomy images with missing articles, Listed building, Edwyn Collins, Pacheco Pass, Peter Palumbo, Thiokol, MKB Raduga, Cape Farewell, Greenland, Crathie, Aberdeenshire, Crathie Kirk, Emanuel Wynne, Eduardo Paolozzi, Computer Misuse Act 1990, Greasemonkey, Arno Allan Penzias

Rio PMP300, Surface-mount technology closeup, Surface-mount technology closeup annotated, keydrive internals, Playa, Antelope Valley, Gmail inbox, Gmail threaded view, Gmail compose view, Tonopah Test Range, Thiokol airbags use on Mars Pathfinder, Loch Lubnaig, Enric Miralles' Santa Catalina market in Barcelona, Façade of Casa Batlló, Roof details of Casa Batlló, Barcelona Pavilion, Ninety Mile Beach, Victoria, Aupouri Peninsula, Lake Taupo, Taranaki, Otago Harbour, Wellington, Gisborne, Mahia Peninsula, Hawke Bay, Napier, New Zealand, Lake Wakatipu, Lake Rotorua, Cape Farewell, Greenland, Cape Farewell, New Zealand, Farewell Spit, Flag of the pirate Stede Bonnet, Flag of the pirate Blackbeard, Flag of the pirate Henry Every, Flag of the pirate Thomas Tew, Flag of the pirate Emanuel Wynne, Flag of the pirate Calico Jack, Edwards Air Force Base, Naval Air Weapons Station China Lake, Dryden Flight Research Center, Greasemonkey

My extremist views

 * Well written popular culture articles are not "fancruft"; they are the (invaluable) gateway drug for wikipedia. If some teenager comes to read about The Itchy & Scratchy Show and leaves knowing what Socialist realism is (via Worker and Parasite) then the wikipedia has earned its keep.
 * 3RR is good (or at least better than the alternatives). If people can't learn basic social skills, it's better to be rid of them than deprive wikipedia's overwhelmingly well-adjusted editorbase the chance to edit an article (something denied them either by permitting the editwar to continue or protecting the page). Roll on 2RR.
 * We shouldn't have individual pages for highschools, mostly because I fear they're so peripheral that they'll either be ignored or they'll be subject to vandalism that no-one notices. Better we have pages about individual school districts, with sections for each high school.  Those who (perhaps rightly) worry that an individual highschool isn't sufficiently notable have less to worry about when dealing with a school district of ten or twenty schools.
 * Our blocking policy is crazy. It indulges vandals and inconveniences decent users of the same IP address.  If someone types FUCK FUCK FUCK into some article, they should be blocked immediately, with no chance to do it again and no lame "we've removed your test" message.  But they should only (in the first instance) be blocked for a trivial period of time (say 10 or 20 minutes).  That way they know their misdeeds haven't gone unnoticed, and that there's a penalty for misbehaviour.  Such a short block doesn't excessively penalise any subsequent innocent user of the same IP (our current blocks of 24 hours for a first-time vandal are excessive).  Worst of all are the "don't vandalise" messages that policy obligates us to give the vandals.  These are frequently seen only by later innocents, and often confuse, anger, and upset them.  Sometimes I use a friend's AOL account, and the wikipedia seems like a hostile, angry place because of all the undeserved "you have new messages" stuff one gets.  Particularly on AOL, Mr Vandal never ever sees the message you leave for him, but yet we leave a message anyway.
 * Blanking one page isn't vandalism, and neither is typing sssddsds - they're honest tests by people who just can't believe they're allowed to edit the live page. Doing that in say three or four pages clearly shows intent, and is clearly vandalism. If someone blanks one page and then either stops or makes constructive edits, a nastygram is unwarranted.  Remember that a lot of "vandalism" is immediately reverted by the "vandal", when they discover they've actually been allowed to edit.  We do it a lot, so the novelty of a user-editable website has worn off on us; it's a paradigm shift for almost everyone else.
 * Most RFCs have within them a kernel of truth, but most are hopelessly padded with procrustean javertism, and fail because of that. If you want Jim to start leaving edit summaries, or to quit reverting, then write an RFC that says that and nothing else.  Restrain yourself from dissecting Jim and finding every flaw Jim may have, every trivial mistake or questionable call Jim may have made.  Doing this turns it from a reasonable, on-topic request for comment into a rambling whiny witchhunt.  Reasonable people might concur with your original point, but faced with the apparition of your McCarthyism they'll kick back against the whole thing.

Useful templates

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Useful links

 * Tools, Scripts, Special:Log/block, Special:Log/protect, Kate's edit counter

title: User:John Fader


text:
Bourgain

Bourgain is a surname of French origin. Variants include Burgoyne and Bourgogne.

Notable people with the name Bourgain include:
 * Jean Bourgain (1954–2018), Belgian mathematician
 * Mickaël Bourgain (born 1980), French track cyclist

title: Bourgain


text:
Kyra Phillips

Kyra Phillips (born August 8, 1968) is a correspondent for ABC News.

Early life and career
Phillips was born in Illinois, and grew up in the city of Jacksonville. In the fourth grade, she moved to San Diego, California, where her parents became professors at San Diego State University. After graduating from Helix High School, Phillips earned a bachelor's degree in journalism from University of Southern California. Among her first jobs in broadcasting were the positions of weekend anchor and reporter for WLUK-TV in Green Bay, Wisconsin, before moving on to WDSU-TV in New Orleans, Louisiana, in 1994. Phillips has also held positions as morning anchor for KAMC-TV in Lubbock, Texas, field producer for CNN-Telemundo’s Washington, D.C., offices and a journalist of the special assignment unit of KCBS-TV in Los Angeles, California. Phillips participates in the Brain Tumor Foundation for Children, T.A.P.S. (Tragedy Assistance Program for Survivors), Global Down Syndrome Foundation and Big Brothers Big Sisters of America, which she has been involved with since 1992.

CNN
Phillips joined CNN in 1999. During her early years at CNN, Phillips was granted access to U.S. Navy Air Wing CVW-9 in 2001 as they prepared for the war in Afghanistan. In January 2002, Phillips spent about a month in Antarctica to work on a television documentary to be featured on the program CNN Presents. Later in 2002, Phillips produced reports focusing on the U.S. Navy's reconnaissance missions from the destroyer USS Paul Hamilton (DDG-60), the Navy's Special Operations Command, the Navy SEALs, and Special Warfare Combatant Crewman training, riding in an F-14 Tomcat during an air-to-air combat mission over the Persian Gulf. She has also participated in the Navy's TOPGUN school, SWAT training, and other police and weapons training.

In 2003, she was an embedded journalist during the 2003 invasion of Iraq, where she reported from the aircraft carrier USS Abraham Lincoln (CVN-72). In 2006, Phillips was the last journalist to fly in an F-14 Tomcat before its official retirement from service in the U.S. Navy.

Phillips was criticized for her insensitivity during an April 16, 2003, interview with Dr Imad al-Najada, the doctor of Ali Ismail Abbas, a 12-year-old boy who lost 15 relatives and both arms when a U.S. missile hit his home in Baghdad. Discussing live images of the 2006 labor protests in France, in which it was later determined that no one was killed, she said that the images of the demonstrations "Sort of brings back memories of Tiananmen Square, when you saw these activists in front of tanks." CNN's Chris Burns told French Foreign Minister Philippe Douste-Blazy that her comments were "regrettable."

On August 29, 2006, during a CNN broadcast of President George W. Bush's speech on the first anniversary of Hurricane Katrina's landfall, Phillips's microphone was left on while she was in the washroom. Portions of a personal conversation were broadcast live, during which Phillips offered advice on men, criticized her sister-in-law for being a "control freak", and praised her then-husband. The conversation audio was mixed with the President's audio feed and both were discernible. Daryn Kagan broke into Phillips's comments with an audio recap of Bush's speech. CNN immediately apologized for the on-air gaffe. Phillips later appeared on CBS' Late Show with David Letterman poking fun at herself in retrospect.

Phillips co-anchored CNN Radio's November 4, 2008, election coverage with Capitol Hill correspondent Lisa Desjardins.

In March 2012, Phillips moved to the 11am Newsroom, and her timeslot was shortened to one hour. However, on June 26, 2012, it was officially announced that she would leave CNN and launch her own show at its sister channel HLN. She soon returned to CNN as an "investigative correspondent".

ABC
On April 2, 2018, Phillips left CNN to join ABC News as a "D.C.-based correspondent".

On July 19, 2019, Phillips posted a tweet praising President Trump for "giving us [journalists] access on a regular basis and the ability to ask any question." Democrats and other journalists criticized the comment as being overly deferential.

Awards
In 1997 Phillips was named Reporter of the Year by the Associated Press. She has also won four Emmy Awards, two Edward R. Murrow Awards for investigative reporting, the top documentary award from the Society of Professional Journalists for her coverage of Jena, Louisiana and multiple Golden Microphones.

Personal life
Having been married to John Assad from 2000 to 2008, Phillips became engaged to Fox News correspondent John Roberts in 2010. She gave birth to their twins in March 2011. As of 2018, the couple are married.

title: Kyra Phillips


text:
Claus Spahn

Claus Spahn (born 15 May 1940 in Bottrop, Germany) is a former TV programme editor of Germany's Westdeutscher Rundfunk (WDR) broadcasting corporation, a presenter, producer and author. He was awarded the Cross of the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany in 2001.

Vita
Spahn studied History of theatre, German language and literature, Philosophy, and History of art at the University of Cologne. He received his doctorate ('Dr. Phil.') in 1969 for his dissertation The history of the theatre of the Ruhr region up to 1933. He worked as a TV journalist for the WDR from 1969 to 2005. He produced numerous series, portraits and documentaries in the field of cultural and educational policy.

He became known both nationally and internationally through chess programmes. Between 1983 and 2005, he presented the annual live broadcast Chess of the Grandmasters (Schach der Großmeister), where players including Garry Kasparov, Anatoly Karpov, Viswanathan Anand and Vladimir Kramnik competed for the TV Cup.

It was on his initiative and under his direction that the WDR regularly reported on the Dortmund Sparkassen Chess Meeting.

Series / Films
The series written and produced by Spahn included Keine Angst vorm Fliegen (Don't be afraid to fly) and Der Elternführerschein (The driving licence for parents). Together with Lida Winiewicz, Spahn wrote the 12-part TV serial Wenn die Liebe hinfällt (When love ends). He was awarded the Medal of German Cancer Aid for Niemand soll der Nächste sein! (Nobody should be the next). In 1979, Spahn received the German Industrial Film Prize for the TV series Computer können nicht vergessen! (Computers can't forget) in connection with the Federal Data Protection Act. Under the title and with the TV production Don't be afraid to fly, Spahn and Rainer Pieritz founded seminars to allay the fear of flying in Germany. As author and director, Spahn produced two impressive portraits on Carl Djerassi, the chemist, author, art collector and Father of the pill, and Otto Erich Deutsch, the Schubert researcher (Deutsch Catalog).

Awards
Claus Spahn was awarded the Ehrenteller des Deutschen Schachbundes (Commemorative Plate of the German Chess Federation) in 1992. He received the Deutscher Schachpreis (German Chess Award) of the German Chess Federation on two occasions (1983/2001) for his commitment to the sport of chess, as well as the Medal of the European Chess Union (ECU) and the Gold Merit Award of the World Chess Federation FIDE in 2002.

In 2001, he was awarded the Cross of the Order of Merit of the Federal Republic of Germany by Federal President Johannes Rau for his many years of outstanding journalistic and editorial work.

title: Claus Spahn


text:
Robbie Buck

Robert Buck known as Robbie Buck is an Australian radio announcer.

Career
Robbie's radio experience began in his home town of Lismore where he took up a late night shift on the local radio station. Once he moved to Sydney he began doing graveyard shifts on community station 2SER, and eventually became a full-time employee for the station. Following this, he spent time at SBS radio and TV as a sound producer. During his time at SBS, he co-hosted Alchemy which was a late night TV program focused on the electronic music scene.

In 2003, he took on the role of a new show at the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's Triple J, Home and Hosed, the successor to Richard Kingsmill's Australian Music Show. The new program aired every weeknight from 9 pm for two hours, replacing the single three-hour timeslot that Kingsmill's show had taken. The show cemented the station's tradition of being a strong supporter of Australian music at a time when the station was going through turmoil in management changes.

In 2006, Caroline Tran took the reins of Home and Hosed, and Robbie started a new program Top Shelf Radio, airing in the afternoon drive timeslot from 3 – 5:30 pm. He remained the host of the program until the end of the 2007 ratings period, to make way for Dools and Linda in 2008, hosted by Scott Dooley and Linda Marigliano. Robbie subsequently joined Lindsay McDougall and Marieke Hardy to host the new breakfast show, Robbie, Marieke and The Doctor. During his time at Triple J, Robbie also hosted the Lunch and Weekend Lunch shows, and has appeared on ABC TV programs including Mondo Thingo hosted by Amanda Keller.

In September 2009, Robbie announced that he would be leaving Triple J to host the Evenings program on 702 ABC Sydney, 1233 ABC Newcastle, 666 ABC Canberra and ABC Local Radio stations across New South Wales. In 2012 he was replaced by Dominic Knight and moved on to host The Inside Sleeve on Radio National until the end of the 2013 ratings year. Buck returned to 702 ABC Sydney in 2014 when he replaced Adam Spencer as host of Breakfast 5:30 – 8 am weekdays. On 1 October 2021, Robbie announced via ABC news that he was leaving his ABC Radio Sydney breakfast show that he co-hosted with Wendy Harmer for three years, stating they had decided to "go out on a high".

title: Robbie Buck


text:
Talk:Converso

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Yasi126.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 18:25, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Categories
We already have the area under the Inquisition Category category, why should it also be under the Catholic Church Category and the Spanish Jewish History Category as the Inquisition is beneath both of them? (In fact beneath the Catholic history Category in the former case).

For such a small category this seems overkill.

JASpencer

 * What's wrong with having all relevant links? The article is relevant to all these categories. Jayjg 14:54, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * With that attitude categories become less useful. Why not make sure that the European History, History, Jewish and other categories are included?  With using subcategories the categories become far less cluttered and far more useful.  JASpencer  30 Sept 2004

Gomez de Guzman (Ayala) family offsprings in America
I wrote this part of article because I think it is important to show how widely descendants of Jewish converso spread even outside of Iberia and former Iberian colonial empires. User: Tracadero, 3.16.07
 * I'm concerned that we need amazingly good evidence before we say eg George Bush has Jewish ancestors. Secretlondon 07:10, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Why do you think it is important to show how widely descendants of Jewish converso spread even outside of Iberia and former Iberian colonial empires? I suggest removing whole section as marginal to the Article. Pavel --80.95.254.1 06:18, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Ii is important, Pavel, that there is no so called ethnic purity n the world. You never know who your ancestors were, all mixed. User: Fernando.

 * Is the existence of ethnic purity an issue that needs addressed in an article on Jewish conversion in medieval Spain? If racial/ethnic purity is the issue, then there are better places to discuss it, such as Racism. As laudable as the broader sentiments may be, articles in an encyclopedia need to address the issue at hand.
 * The article as it stands has numerous problems. Roth does not say what the article credits him as saying.  Specifically, the first person mentioned, "Gome Perez" is NOT said by Roth to be a converso, nor are the Ayala, which Roth calls "Old Castillian". (And while we are at it, nobody in the entire descent ever bore the name "de Guzman", nor was Gomez Perez "Mayor" but alguacil mayor - the civic officer in charge of law enforcement, the bailiff.)  As to his conclusion that Horabuena was a conversa, his evidence is slight, and he is in disagreement with numerous other published sources which show her to have been of Christian parentage (including some of the cites given later in the article) - in other words, the entire thing may well be bogus. This type of issue could be discussed, if it was relevant to the article, but it is not. The patterns of descent are not unique to conversos. George Bush and all the others would descend from these Spanish noblemen and -women whether they are conversos or not, so this expedition into 800-year genealogies is not directly relevant to the subject of the article.  Just as we do not show George Bush as a descendant of Normans on the Norman page, of Bretons on the Breton page, of Poles on the Poland page, etc., it is out of place here. Further, George Bush has about 4.2 billion ancestral lines to the time in question. That one of these may lead to someone who may once have been Jewish is hardly noteworthy, and is of no significance to the individuals in question (one does not understand more about either conversos or GWB by knowing that one may descend from the other). Finally, it is quite excessive.  The list of people said to descend from this one woman who may have been a conversa is over twice as long as the entire description of what a converso/a is: the historical relevance of conversos is overwhelmed by this historical irrelevancy. This listing in no way makes the question of what is a converso more clear, and as such it has no place in an article on conversos.
 * Roth spends 400 pages talking about conversos and their role in their contemporary Spanish society - he even addresses your issue of interest, relating how a 15th century Bishop raised the issue that, "since virtually all of the Jews in Visigothic Spain converted to Christianity, who among the Christians of Spain could be certain that he is not a descendant of those conversos?" (p. 93). The Bishop, in one sentence and in a more relevant context, has made the same point as all those lines of names are apparently meant to convey. With insight like this, it is too bad all Roth is being used for is as capstone to a genealogical distraction. Agricolae 04:37, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

What Roth did Agricolae red? Read his book once again, pp. cited in Wiki's article. Concerning Ayala see Roth's book, Appendix C "Major Converso Families: Ayala, p. 333. User: BGH.

 * Agricolae read the one entitled Conversos, Inquisition, and the Expulsion of the Jews from Spain, University of Wisconsin Press, 1995. Which one did BGH read? As to the pages cited in the Wiki article, pp. 94-95 says,
 * "Of great interest is Diaz's statement that 'D. Juan Gomez,' archbishop of Toledo, was a converso and son of a Jew (judio; read perhaps judia?) of Toledo (246). No such name appears in any list of the bishops of the city, and the only possibility seems to be the archbishop Gutierre Gomez (1310-19), who was in fact the son of Gome Perez, alguacil mayor of Toledo, and his wife Horabuena (Ora buena). [ref. 25] That name is so exclusively Jewish in medieval Spain, and particularly Toledo, that there can be little doubt as to her background. The archbiship's brother, interestingly, was Fernand Gomez, chancellor of Fernando IV and frequently involved with the Jew Samuel who was in the service of that king. It happens that Fernan Alvarez de Toledo (d. ca. 1460), the conde de Alba, was a nephew of Gutierre Gomez and also of Inigo Lopez de Mendoza, which further supports the possibility of the converso background of the archbishop."
 * Note several things - first, his source says that JUAN Gomez was a converso, son of a Jew, but then decides this may have been someone with a different name, GUTIERRE Gomez. That is the first problem. Second, he says that Gome Perez married Horabuena and HER name is almost exclusively Jewish. He never says that Gome himself was Jewish. Further, his conclusion that the name Horabuena is almost exclusively Jewish is unsourced and flies in the face of its documented use by Toledo Christian families, and by published sources that show her to be daughter of a Christian, Gutierre Armildez.  Third, he relates that a son of this couple, an officer to the crown, interacted with a Jew in service to the same king. That hardly adds to the argument. Finally, he says that because Fernan Alvarez de Toledo was nephew of Gutierre Gomez and also of Inigo Lopez de Mendoza this further supports it. The logic of this escapes me. The whole argument is not very strong. On p. 333 he gives a list of names of converso families, but none of these names relate to Gome Perez or his wife. What am I missing on these cited pages?
 * As to Ayala, he does, in app. C, include the name in a list entitled "Converso families named by Lope de Barrientos and Fernan Diaz de Toledo." Here (in the Mendoza entry, which I missed) he states that "the Mendozas and Ayalas all descend from a certain 'Rabbi Solomon' and his son don Isaque de Valladolid, according to Lope de Barrientos", so clearly the Bishop thought they were conversos, but elsewhere, Roth himself says of Pedro Lopez de Ayala that he "headed the 'old Christian' cause" against the conversos (p. 103). (This 'Old Christian' champion, Pedro Lopez de Ayala, was brother of the Ines de Ayala of the Wiki article.) These are in apparent conflict, but that is not a unique situation in Roth's work - he says of Fernan Perez de Guzman that he was "a non-converso writer who spoke out on behalf of conversos" (p. 162), yet Fernan Perez de Guzman was a male-line great-great-grandson of Gome Perez and Horabuena. As to the Ayala, we do have an independent source, a genealogy of the family, written by the father of Pedro Lopes and Ines de Ayala. This traces the Ayala ancestry, name by name for numerous generations to obscure Basque-derived landholders on the Castile/Navarre borderlands, with not a rabbi in sight. Of course, next comes the argument that it is all a cover-up by the Ayalas, but that misses the bigger point.
 * Since it is not the job of Wiki editors to determine "truth", such issues would normally be discussed in the relevant article, but that would only compound the problem in this case. This whole Gomez genealogical diversion is not worth debating in the converso article, because, true or false, it contributes nothing to an understanding of conversos. When you add into it the questionable nature of the root claim, it's inclusion is all the more dubious. Agricolae 04:58, 7 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks to Agricolae for expressing my thoughts so eloquently. This really does not ad anything to the Article's subject. Pavel --80.95.254.1 14:27, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

My response simple: no serious scholar outside of Spain take seriously genealogical works written in Spain whether they from the Middle Ages or from contemporary historians. The social pressure to purify their ancestry from Jewish or Muslim forebears was enormous during the older times and crude anti-Semtism is  still strong in Spain. As one astute observer of our days Iberia (he is not Jewish) points out Portuguese a notion that they has an Jewish ancestry is a widely accepted fact, but Spaniards are in denial. I can cite long list of negative opinions about Spanish works and they expressed by non-Spanish historians who are not Jews or Muslims. Your argument that Pero de Ayala was not converso because he led Old Christian party is ignorant. There is a long list of leaders of so called Old Christians who were of converso descent. Among them infamous PACHECO who led anti-Converso Old Christian party under last Castilian kings before rise of Isabella. In genealogical terms there were not truly Old Christians in Iberia, the category was social, created by Spanish society. It is also widely claimed by many scholars now that Spanish society with its obsession about the purity of the blood was the first  racist society in the world. Hence all the distortion of family origins. Once mostly nobility and city middle class were considered of converso origin or admixture. Recently researchers discover that converso widely intermixed also with the peasants. Lope de Vega who was considered in his time and until now a "pure Spaniard" provides the celebraty case. Another big problem with Spanish genealogy is that Spaniards in drastic difference with the rest of Europe trace family line both by male and female lines, accordingly, a man can marry into an old family and his children can claim the name of this family, so it is difficult to  trace the family trees as we accustomed to do it by the male lines. An original family can be dead in male lines but their female descendants can claim name of the family and its entire family tree including its origin. BGH.

 * Yeah, didn't see that coming - the great Christian cover-up. Certainly, one can debate the work of Fernan Perez de Ayala (although a blanket dismissal of everything written in Spain is hardly supportable - rather should not all sources be evaluated independently based on their own merits?). One can also debate the work of Lope de Barrientos (did you notice this was also written in Spain, so equally worthless by your criterion, right?). He was no more pure a source, free from criticism, than Perez de Ayala, he just had the opposite position.
 * We can debate it all until we are blue in the face, and when we are done, we won't know anything more about conversos, except that some became so integrated into Spanish society that you can't tell who is and who is not a converso, which renders the distinction meaningless for these families. This is a point that can be made with a single sentence, (perhaps the Bishop's own) without the tedious listing dozens of Americans who may or may not descend from someone who we can't tell for certain was or wasn't a converso in any line. Agricolae 17:58, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

You made good point, every Spanish authors shall be judged according to his/her  own merit Unfortunately and it is not mine opinion but of the most respected international scholars who are English, WASP Americans or Germans, that Spanish writings  on genealogy have  little value, even including contemporary scholars. I am in part of Valencian and Basque family background myself and I studied this issue in depths. Please do not engage in demagoguery comparing a few good apples with the rotten garden: highly reliable and internationally acclaimed as a source Lope de Barrientos is not in the same league with authors of forgeries. It is said a lot of about state of contemporary Spanish scholarship that  converso background of great painter  Velasquez was discovered recently by foreign researchers, including Japanese, not by Spaniards who gave him old aristocratic family tree. Once again, negative  opinion about the state of Spanish family research and genealogy is not mine. Even if you argue agains such opinion, read for example Spanish biographies of Isabella and Ferdinand and try to find there any mentioning of their Jewish converso ancestry. You will not. But reference to it is almost a staple in foreign works about Isabella and Ferdinand. It is very sad that a capital work on conversos was wriiten by an American scholar Roth, not by a Spaniard.BGH.

 * Only a fool would dismiss Emilio Saez Sanchez just because Arturo Garcia Carraffa was also from Spain. We have the duality, though - those Spanish writers who disagree are purveyors of forgeries, those who agree are the "few good apples". Convenient. Anyhow, this whole obsession about who does or does not have a converso somewhere among their thousands or millions of ancestors is a separate issue from defining and describing what a converso is, which is the purpose of a Wiki article. Agricolae 19:51, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I am leaving this discussion with my advise to Agricolae: when you read books  which you do not like, try do not distort what their authors said,  like you did with Roth. At beginning I thought you have problem with English language so you failed to understand and misquote the book. The problem is your world view. BGH.

 * Umm. Here is my advice to BGH - it is OK to disagree without accusing those who hold the opposing viewpoint of acting in bad faith. "My view, or the wrong one" is not a very productive approach to consensus building. As to my world view, in this context it is that the content of Wiki articles should have some relevance to the topic. If this is a problem for you, well, so be it.
 * Now, unless someone can provide a better rationale than 'world peace' for including Oliver Hazard Perry in an article on Jews and Muslims who adopted Christianity in medieval Spain, I am going to delete the whole section. Agricolae 02:53, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

(Note: BGH, twice you have significantly altered your previous contributions to this discussion after I responded, without any indication that this has been done, thereby changing the apparent context of my responses. Fixing typos is one thing, but if there is material you wish you would have said and someone else has already responded, then please add the new material as a separate entry. To do otherwise is to distort the discussion. Agricolae 05:14, 8 August 2007 (UTC))

Guzman was a Moore not Hebrew. The Conversos or more Muslim Stop making up History. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

I would suggest the use of a different word from "pogrom" to denote persecution of the Jews of Iberia. Pogrom is an Eastern European word. I currently live in Lisbon, Portugal and I am studying this subject. I will attempt to find out what the word used here in Portugal would be. John B.

Merge from New Christian
The subject of these two articles is the same, it's simply a matter of having two terms for the same thing. Also note that in both w:pt and w:es there is only one article under the title "New Christian", and "Converso" is just a redirect to "New Christian". EuTugamsg 00:08, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Oppose, because it is quite clear from the well-researched Converso article, also a term that is now in current usage, has more specific meaning than the much broader New Christian term. You have not gained any support, therefore the terms/articles will not be merged at this time. Thank you. IZAK (talk) 09:14, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Merge Converso / Marrano / New Christian
Our articles' explanations of the boundaries between all these terms is very poor and very unclear. Conversos means "The converted", "Marranos" means "Those who now eat pork" and then we also have "New Christians" as referred to above, All these terms started out as referring to both Iberian Jews and Muslims who had converted, but in modern writings may refer only to ex-Jews whilst "Moriscos" refers to ex-Muslims. So all the terms mean the same thing. See for example:
 * "Unless otherwise indicated, the terms Conversos, Marranos and New Christians are used in this work synonymously. Each of them has long served to designate the same group in Jewish, Spanish and European scholarship" (page vii of The origins of the Inquisition in fifteenth century Spain, Volume 1, Benzion Netanyahu, 1995)

In the three wikipedia articles, none of this is clear and is very confusing for a reader - this needs to be tidied up. So my suggestion is (1) merge the articles, and (2) provide a better comparative explanation of the names.

Oncenawhile (talk) 07:57, 13 June 2013 (UTC)
 * Oppose. The New Christian merger gained no consensus previously, for good reason. Marranos also has a narrower meaning, and the content would be harder to merge. I suggest that if you want any kind of merger, you will have to mock up a page of what it might look like merged, and propose that as the new merged article. But you would be taking a big risk in making that extensive edit, as it might not gain traction. Another possibility would be to structure each of the articles into sections that could be easily transcluded into the various entries that might share them. Dovid (talk) 20:18, 3 October 2013 (UTC)

Perpetuation of Jewish Heritage
The article claims that conversos continued observing Jewish traditions. This can't be true regarding all the descendants of the actual converts (who are also conversos according to this article's definition), at least those who remained in Spain and Portugal.

Netanyahu in his Origins of the Inquisition in Fifteenth Century Spain goes even further and attempts to prove that the second-generation conversos retained almost none of Jewish practices. The article should describe the eventual assimilation of conversos and the existence of different opinions on how quickly it happened. Alæxis¿question? 06:18, 18 May 2017 (UTC)

Adding information on Conversos in Italy
I believe this Wikipedia page should begin to expand on specific groups of Conversos who left Spain and Portugal to live in different parts of Europe, and to further elaborate on what their lives were like in those regions. A a new section should be created called “Conversos by Country,” and I will begin to add research and information specifically about Italian Conversos. I want to elaborate on the life of Jews who converted to Roman Catholicism in Spain and Portugal, who then immigrated to respective Italian cities in search for better life. All of the following information is derived from Renee Levine Melammed's book, A Question of Identity: Iberian Conversos in Historical Perspective, published by Oxford University Press in 2004.

I want to elaborate on examples of how Conversos were looked at with suspicion and harassment both in their old and new communities. I will begin my excerpt by talking about the general scope of Jews in Italy (30,000 Jews and 5,000-8,000 Conversos), then proceed to explain the life of Conversos in the three specific Italian cities that first openly accepted Conversos.

For the history of the city of Ferrara, I will ensure to reference what the Lettres Patentes that were issued by Duke Ercole II meant (in order to provide better background knowledge), and I will further explain why the plague in this city made many conversos relocate to Venice. Following this information, I will inform readers that Venice slowly became a center for conversos, describe what they did there, and how many of them struggled with their identities between their Christian and Jewish faiths.

The second part of the Italian Conversos hader will discuss conversos in Ancona who faced difficult lives living under the pope, and eventually fled to Ferrara in 1555. Portuguese conversos in Ancona were falsely misled that they were welcome to Ancona, by openly converting back to Judaism, then being overturned by the succeeding pope, Pope Paul IV. The conversos in Ancona faed traumatic emotional damage, and caused much skepticism among them when the duke granted a charter of residence in return for the conversos building up the city’s economy in 1558.

The third part will discuss the history of conversos in Venice. Venetian leaders were convinced to openly accept conversos becoming Jews because they recognized that if conversos were not welcome in Venice, they would take their successful trades to the country’s economic rival of Turkey. I will then proceed to explain the life of the majority Portuguese conversos in Venice.

If anyone wants to comment on these changes, please let me know on this Talk Page or on my Talk Page. Yasi126 (talk) 04:14, 15 November 2017 (UTC)

Merge categories?
In Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_February_24 there is a proposal for merging Category:New Christians with Category:Conversos. Feel free to join the discussion. Marcocapelle (talk) 08:08, 24 February 2019 (UTC)

The entire definition
Sorry to re-open this, as i did with the "New Christian" category. I´m bringing it up here instead of edditing because I learned that this seems to be more controversial than I expected it to be. I ping the users I saw debate on the issue about new Christians to make sure things go smooth. I wanted to mention that:

"The majority of Spain's Jews converted to Christianity as a result of the pogroms in 1391." That issimply not true. Those riots were extrenely localized and brieph. Mostof Spain was unaffected, and most ofthe jews in the area didn´t convert but moved to Portugal to return after the civil war fueling it was over (check Peter the Cruel of Spain). Not to mention that "the majority of jews of Spain" didn´t live anywhere close to the riots.

"Conversos who did not fully or genuinely embrace Catholicism, but continued to practise Judaism in secrecy were referred to as judaizantes ("Judaizers") and pejoratively as marranos ("swine")". This, again, isn´t exactly true. Marranos wasn´t a term used for jews that didn´t convert. The term is derogatory, probably prior to the edict of Granada, and is used for jews and for conversos of jewish origin, not for jews who didn´t convert per se. It was also used to refer to the Spanish in the rest of Europe, because they had cohabitated with the jews for so long that they were asumed to be "poluted". It is slang, so the definition is hard to pinpoint, but it certainly didn´t refer to jews who didn´t conver especifically. It mainly refers to jews, and it was used on conversos, or on anyone who was presumed to have jewish origin, as a way to remark their jew origin. It was used, with some variations, as far as in Germany, but there the meaning changed to indicate "Spaniard", or Mediterranean in general terms. It is the closest to a racial term of the entire set (judeizante, converso, Anusim, New christian, etc...). As for "ocnversos who didn´t embrace catholicism" but still attempted to live in Spain permanently, they weren´t called anything, they were expelled.

Again, if sources are needed, I give the RAE dictionary itself,,,. Regarding the use of "marrano" to refer to the Spanish, from the top of my head I remember or the complains of the Papa Alejandro VI.  "Conversos played an important role in the 1520–1521 Revolt of the Comuneros, a popular uprising and civil war centered in the region of Castile against the imperial pretensions of the Spanish monarchy.[2] " That is likely to be not true either. It seems to have been a myth spread by the monarchy itself to justify it´s position. The moanrchy did create a lot of those, including that the COmuneros were influenced by demons and corrupt priests.This ideas didn´t go too far in Spain itself (initially) but did so in France and the germanic states, which was a good way of keeping population there from revolting too. It is found in the same sources that say that the comuneros were guided by witches and things along those lines. You can still find this idea in some sources (like the one cited, I assume, even though I don´t think a book about the inquisition in Mexico can go too in depth regarding the comuneros revolt), but it is higly disputed. I cite, but I can probably find more. This has been a hot topic in the last 20 years.

PD:, I´m usually very, very, very careful with my sources, and I tend to give too many sources, more than to few. You mentioned in the past that I gave non reliable sources, or none at all. Unless you mean "not in English" by "non reliable", I´m not sure of what you mean. I´d love to go over those sources with you and talk about them a little bit more. It seems that anything regarding judaism is particularly important for you, and I´m fien with trying to find sources in English if that´s part of the problem. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Cateyed (talk • contribs) 20:02, August 11, 2019 (UTC)
 * Since you appear to have access to these sources, could you please expand them, and include page numbers, please? Also, as a point of verifiability policy: if sources of equivalent quality are available in English, then they should be preferred over non-English sources, but if they are not, sources in Spanish (or any language) are fine.
 * While I agree with your comment rejecting the statement that "the majority converted" following the 1391 pogroms (some estimates say about one third did, e.g., Beinart 1992, "The Great Conversion"), regarding your assertion that they were localized and brief, can you define your terms? Iirc, spread to about 70 other cities in Spain, taking place over many months in different locales. Many fled within Spain, or as you point out, west to Portugal. In particular, you cite Diago (2003) as support for your claims but I see no support there. I searched the source (download), but the terms or fragments 1391, revuelta, pogromo, expuls, antisemit, masasacre do not appear anywhere in the 46-page article.  Did you mean to cite a different article here? Or maybe I missed it.
 * Marrano was the local pejorative term for judaizante which later in academic circles became known as a crypto-Jew, and marranismo as crypto-Judaism. The term remained pejorative through the 15th-17th c., approximately, then became adopted in European historiography without the pejorative connotations. The whole article needs a "Terminology and related terms" section; something similar to this one at es-wiki, but better and more complete.
 * Not familiar with the "fake news", 16th c. version, which you raised, but I'll have to get informed.
 * Finally, there isn't complete agreement on the definition of converso, with some taking the narrower view that it only includes cryto-Jews "forced" to convert (from Hebrew anus, forced) but maintaining connection to the religion, and others taking a broader view that it's anyone forced to adopt another religion, without an implication that they practiced Judaism. This, imho, is at the root of the disagreement among some editors here, whether New Christian is a synonym for converso or not.
 * P.S. If English is not your native language, be aware that Jew is a noun. Using it as an adjective, as you did above, in "...as a way to remark their jew origin", is considered derogatory by some. Use Jewish in this context. Both words are capitalized in English. Thanks, Mathglot (talk) 20:49, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Converso


text:
1905 in India

Events in the year 1905 in India.

Incumbents

 * Emperor of India – Edward VII
 * Viceroy of India – George Curzon, 1st Marquess Curzon of Kedleston
 * Viceroy of India – Gilbert Elliot-Murray-Kynynmound, 4th Earl of Minto (from 18 November)

Events

 * National income - ₹9,910 million
 * 4 April – The 7.8 Kangra earthquake shook the Kangra Valley with a maximum EMS-98 intensity of IX (Destructive), killing more than 20,000 people
 * 16 October - Partition of Bengal.

Dates unknown

 * George, Prince of Wales and Princess Mary tour India, 1905–06
 * Smarthavicharam of Kuriyedathu Thatri.

Law

 * Indian Railway Board Act

Births

 * 2 January – Jainendra Kumar, novelist (died 1988).
 * 16 January – Dr. Manubhai P. Vaidya, educationist and recipient of Best Teacher Award from Dr. S. Radhakrishnan, the President of India (died 1966).
 * 18 March － Malti Bedekar, feminist author(died 2001).
 * 21 March – Kushal Konwar, Indian National Congress President of Golaghat, later on first martyr of Quit India Movement. Died on 15 June 1943 hanged till death by British.
 * 10 May – Pankaj Mullick, singer and composer (died 1978).
 * 17 August – Bhudo Advani, actor (died 1985).
 * 29 August – Dhyan Chand, field hockey player (died 1979).
 * 9 September – Brahmarishi Hussain Sha, seventh head of Sri Viswa Viznana Vidya Adhyatmika Peetham and scholar (died 1981).
 * 12 December – Mulk Raj Anand, novelist in English (died 2004).

Full date unknown

 * Rashid Jahan, author, short story writer and playwright (died 1952).

Deaths
Full Date Unknown
 * 19 January – Debendranath Tagore, founder in 1848 of the Brahmo Religion (born 1817).
 * Protap Chunder Mozoomdar, writer and leader of the Brahmo Samaj (born in 1840)

title: 1905 in India


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Horns of Odin

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was delete. This is an old AfD, so the template was not applied. (non-admin closure) theleekycauldron (talk • contribs) (they/them) 06:38, 25 July 2021 (UTC)

Horns of Odin
Thoroughly non-notable band who haven't even recorded. Found this when the self-promoter added them to goth metal - David Gerard 12:56, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete unless some evidence of notability is found. [[User:Livajo|力伟|т]] 15:13, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete. Garage band vanity. They don't even have a demo yet.   — Gwalla | Talk 19:09, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Taco Deposit | Talk-o Deposit 22:57, Oct 2, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. - cliche band vanity, they're even looking for a new drummer. -- Cyrius|✎ 00:55, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Bovara

Bovara is a village in the Italian province of Perugia in east central Umbria on the lower flank of Monte Serano. It is a frazione of Trevi, which is 2 km northwards. Its population is around 300.

The name of the town derives from Latin (forum) boarium, a cattle market, and the area has been known for its cattle since Roman times. In the 1950s an Umbrian inscription was found there, now conserved at the Museo S. Francesco in Trevi; and a Roman mosaic still exists in situ (although reburied). The chief interest of Bovara, however, lies in the attractive Romanesque abbey church of S. Pietro.

title: Bovara


text:
Judy Woodruff

Judy Carline Woodruff (born November 20, 1946) is an American broadcast journalist who has worked in local, network, cable, and public television news since 1970. She was the anchor and managing editor of the PBS NewsHour through the end of 2022. Woodruff has covered every presidential election and convention since 1976. She has interviewed several heads of state and moderated U.S. presidential debates.

After graduating from Duke University in 1968, Woodruff entered local television news in Atlanta. She was named White House correspondent for NBC News in 1976, a position she held for six years. She joined PBS in 1982, where she continued White House reports for the PBS NewsHour, formerly The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour, in addition to presenting another program. She moved to CNN in 1993 to host Inside Politics and CNN WorldView together with Bernard Shaw, until he left CNN. Woodruff left CNN in 2005, and returned to PBS and the NewsHour in 2006. In 2013, she and Gwen Ifill were its named official anchors, succeeding founding presenter Jim Lehrer. Woodruff and Ifill shared managing newsgathering duties until Ifill's death in 2016. Woodruff succeeded Ifill as the program's sole main presenter. In May 2022, Woodruff announced that she would step down as the NewsHour anchor at year's end, and her final day as anchor was on December 30, 2022.

Early life and education
Woodruff was born on November 20, 1946, in Tulsa, Oklahoma, to William H. Woodruff, a chief warrant officer in the Army, and Anna Lee (née Payne) Woodruff. She has one sister, Anita. She grew up as an army brat, and because of that moved multiple times during her childhood, attending seven schools between kindergarten and seventh grade. Woodruff moved from Oklahoma to Germany when she was five years old. She then moved to army bases in Missouri and New Jersey, returned to Oklahoma, lived in Taiwan for a few years, and subsequently went to North Carolina, before settling in the Augusta, Georgia, area, when her father was stationed at Fort Gordon. Woodruff went to the Academy of Richmond County, a high school in Augusta. In 1963, she won the beauty pageant Young Miss Augusta.

Woodruff attended Meredith College in Raleigh, North Carolina, starting in 1964, initially pursuing a degree in mathematics. In an interview, she said that her political science teacher at Meredith got her interested in politics. After two years at Meredith, Woodruff transferred to Duke University in 1966. She was active in the student government of Duke, and was a member of the sorority Alpha Delta Pi.

While studying, Woodruff worked for Georgia Representative Robert Grier Stephens Jr. as an intern during two summers, but was discouraged from working in Washington, D.C., because of how women were treated there. Woodruff decided to enter journalism in her senior year. She graduated from Duke with a bachelor's degree in political science in 1968. She served on Duke's board of trustees between 1985 and 1997. Woodruff received an honorary degree (DHL) from Duke in 1998 and was also awarded honorary degrees by the University of Scranton in 1991 and by the University of Pennsylvania (LL.D.) in 2005.

From local television to White House correspondent
Woodruff applied for her first job in journalism during the spring break of her senior year at Duke. She was hired as a secretary at the news department of the ABC affiliate in Atlanta, Georgia (WQXI-TV), and began working after she graduated in 1968. Besides being a secretary, she presented the weather forecast on Sundays in her last six months at the station. Woodruff left the affiliate after a year and a half to move to the local CBS affiliate WAGA-TV in 1970, working as a reporter. She covered the Georgia State Legislature, and anchored the noon and evening news.

In 1975, she moved to NBC, where she served as a general-assignment reporter based in Atlanta. Together with Kenley Jones, she covered the southeast, an area spanning 10 states, and the Caribbean. Woodruff was assigned to cover Jimmy Carter's successful 1976 presidential campaign for NBC, when Carter was not yet seen as a major contender. She had already covered Carter's second gubernatorial campaign in 1970 for WAGA. Woodruff traveled with Carter's presidential campaign until she was taken off the campaign trail halfway through 1976. Although she was not on the campaign trail anymore, she kept reporting about the Carter campaign for NBC. After he won the presidency and was inaugurated on January 20, 1977, she moved to Washington, D.C., to become a White House correspondent for NBC News. She continued covering the White House into the Reagan presidency until 1982. Subsequently, she was Chief Washington correspondent for The Today Show on NBC for a year.

Woodruff moved to PBS in mid-1983, becoming the chief Washington correspondent for The MacNeil/Lehrer NewsHour, when the duration of that program was extended to one hour. In addition to reporting on politics, she conducted studio interviews and served as a backup anchor. Woodruff started hosting the weekly documentary series Frontline with Judy Woodruff a few months later in 1984 after its presenter Jessica Savitch died in October the year before. Woodruff left Frontline in 1990 to spend more time with her family and at the NewsHour. While at PBS, she covered all presidential conventions and campaigns, and moderated the 1988 vice-presidential debate between United States Senators Dan Quayle (R-IN) and Lloyd Bentsen (D-TX). The debate is remembered for the remark "I served with Jack Kennedy, I knew Jack Kennedy, Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy", made by Senator Bentsen.

CNN and years after
Woodruff left the NewsHour in 1993 to move to CNN. She was first asked to work for CNN by Tom Johnson at the end of 1992, and took the job four months later after some initial hesitation. Woodruff was teased about this move by her colleague Jim Lehrer: "When I left the 'NewsHour' for a spell to work for a cable-news channel, he always inquired about life at the  'Home Shopping Network'". In June 1993, Woodruff started anchoring the political talk show Inside Politics, that aired on weekdays, together with Bernard Shaw, and the international news program The World Today together with Frank Sesno. Sesno was replaced by Shaw in May 1994. When the daily world affairs program CNN WorldView was launched in 1995, Woodruff and Shaw became the hosts.

She remained co-anchor of WorldView until it went off the air in 2001. In February 2001, Shaw retired, causing Woodruff to become the sole host of Inside Politics, which was subsequently renamed Judy Woodruff's Inside Politics. During her time at CNN, Woodruff also co-anchored CNN's election coverage and the news shows Live From... and CNN NewsStand on Wednesdays. She was the sole anchor of the 1996 documentary series Democracy in America as well. She reported on the 1995 World Conference on Women in Beijing, and co-anchored CNN's special coverage of, among other things, President Richard Nixon's funeral, the Centennial Olympic Park bombing, 9/11, the War in Afghanistan, the Space Shuttle Columbia disaster, and the Iraq War.

Woodruff moderated three Republican presidential primary debates and one Democratic debate during the 2000 campaign season and one Democratic debate during the 2004 campaign season.

Woodruff left CNN in June 2005, after her contract expired, in order to teach, write, and work on a long-form television project. She was a visiting fellow at the Shorenstein Center on Media, Politics and Public Policy at Harvard University in the fall of 2005, and taught a course at the Sanford School of Public Policy at Duke University on media and politics in the fall of 2006. Additionally, Woodruff started hosting Conversations with Judy Woodruff, a monthly Bloomberg Television program, in which she interviewed people, in 2006. She also hosted the Bloomberg election night coverage of the 2006 midterms. Woodruff continued presenting Conversations with Judy Woodruff until 2013.

Return to PBS
Woodruff started working for MacNeil/Lehrer Productions in 2006 on the multimedia project ''Generation Next: Speak Up. Be Heard'', about the views of Americans between the ages of 16 and 25. The project included a PBS documentary series, segments on the NewsHour, a series of NPR specials, and articles on the Internet and in USA Today. Woodruff returned to The NewsHour with Jim Lehrer as a special correspondent that same year, and became a senior correspondent a few months later in February 2007. As a senior correspondent, she reported, conducted studio interviews, was part of the political team, and occasionally filled in as anchor. In December 2009, the news program moved to a dual-anchor format, and changed its name to PBS NewsHour. Jim Lehrer, the main anchor was alternately joined by Woodruff, Gwen Ifill, and Jeffrey Brown.

Lehrer stepped down as anchor of the NewsHour in June 2011, which resulted in the news program being anchored by Woodruff, Ifill, Brown, Ray Suarez, and Margaret Warner on a rotating basis. Earlier that year, the documentary Nancy Reagan: The Role of a Lifetime, of which Woodruff was the principal reporter, was released. In September 2013, she became co-anchor of the PBS NewsHour, presenting the program with Gwen Ifill on weekdays and alone on Fridays. It was the first time an American network broadcast had been anchored by two women. Besides the NewsHour itself, the duo also presented PBS coverage of special events, including presidential conventions, election night, and States of the Union. In February 2016, Woodruff and Ifill moderated the sixth Democratic presidential debate. When Ifill died in November 2016, Woodruff became the sole anchor of the NewsHour. PBS initially sought a replacement for Ifill, but in March 2018, formalized Woodruff's position as "solo anchor". During the 2020 presidential election season, she was one of the moderators of the sixth Democratic debate.

In 2017, The New York Times wrote of her performance on the NewsHour: "Ms. Woodruff's measured delivery, with her hands clasped and her voice low, stands as a counterweight to a haywire era of American news."

In May 2022, Woodruff announced that she would step down as the NewsHour anchor at the end of the year, but planned to continue contributing to the program as senior correspondent. Her last day anchoring the program was December 30, 2022.

Other activities and accolades
Woodruff wrote the book This Is Judy Woodruff at the White House, in which she described her experiences as a journalist. It was published by Addison-Wesley in 1982. Over her career, she has advocated women's organizations, and was part of a group of journalists that founded the International Women's Media Foundation, an organization that internationally supports women in the media, in 1990. She has served on its board of directors, and is part of its advisory council.

Woodruff and her husband, Al Hunt, have actively supported families of children with spina bifida (a condition shared by their eldest son, Jeffrey) with counseling and other necessary services. The couple helped organize the Spina Bifida Association of America's annual roast, during which politicians roast journalists to raise funds for the association. The event, broadcast by C-SPAN, was held between 1989 and 2008.

Woodruff has also served on the boards of trustees of a number of other organizations, including the Newseum, the Freedom Forum, the National Museum of American History, Global Rights, the Carnegie Corporation of New York, America's Promise, the Urban Institute, The Duke Endowment, and the John S. Knight Journalism Fellowships at Stanford.

Woodruff is a member of the Council on Foreign Relations and the American Academy of Arts and Sciences and a former member of the Knight Commission.

Awards
In 2003, Woodruff was inducted into the Georgia Association of Broadcasters Hall of Fame.

Personal life
Woodruff is married to Al Hunt, a columnist and former reporter, and they live in Washington, D.C., with another residence in nearby Maryland. They met during a softball game between journalists and staff of the Carter presidential campaign in Plains, Georgia, in 1976. Their marriage took place on April 5, 1980, in St. Alban's Episcopal Church in Washington, D.C. The couple has three children: Jeffrey (1981), Benjamin (1986), and Lauren (1989). Woodruff gave birth to Jeffrey about five hours after appearing on air. Jeffrey was born with a mild case of spina bifida, and became disabled and brain damaged after surgery in 1998, which caused Woodruff to reduce her workload at CNN. Lauren was adopted from Korea when she was four months old.

title: Judy Woodruff


text: Category:Erath County, Texas

title: Category:Erath County, Texas


text:
Andragogy

Andragogy refers to methods and principles used in adult education. The word comes from the Greek ἀνδρ- (andr-), meaning "adult male", and ἀγωγός (agogos), meaning "leader of". Therefore, andragogy literally means "leading men (adult males)", whereas "pedagogy" literally means "leading children".

Definitions
There are many different theories in the areas of learning, teaching and training. Andragogy commonly is defined as the art or science of teaching adults or helping adults learn. In contrast to pedagogy, or the teaching of children, andragogy is based on a humanistic conception of self-directed and autonomous learners where teachers are defined as facilitators of learning.

Although Malcolm Knowles proposed andragogy as a theory, others posit that there is no single theory of adult learning or andragogy. In the literature where adult learning theory is often identified as a principle or an assumption, there are a variety of different approaches and theories that are also evolving in view of evolving higher education instruction, workplace training, new technology and online learning (Omoregie, 2021).

Malcolm Knowles identified these adult learner characteristics related to the motivation of adult learning.

 * 1) Need to know: Adults need to know the reason for learning something.VSS Picture.jpg
 * 2) Foundation: Experience (including error) provides the basis for learning activities.
 * 3) Self-concept: Adults need to be responsible for their decisions on education; involvement in the planning and evaluation of their instruction.
 * 4) Readiness: Adults are most interested in learning subjects having immediate relevance to their work and/or personal lives.
 * 5) Orientation: Adult learning is problem-centered rather than content-oriented.
 * 6) Motivation: Adults respond better to internal versus external motivators.

Blaschke (2012) described Malcolm Knowles' 1973 theory as "self-directed" learning. The goals include helping learners develop the capacity for self-direction, supporting transformational learning and promoting "emancipatory learning and social action" (Blaschke, 2019, p. 76).

Although Knowles' andragogy is a well-known theory in the English-speaking world, his theory has an ancillary role internationally. This is especially true in European countries where andragogy is a term used to refer to a field of systematic reflection. The acceptance of andragogy in European countries, according to St. Clair and Käpplinger (2021) is to accept andragogy as the "scientific study of learning in adults and the concomitant teaching approaches" (p. 485). Further, the definition of andragogy and its application to adult learning is more variable currently due to both the impact of globalization and the rapid expansion of adult online learning.

History
The term was originally coined by German educator Alexander Kapp in 1833. Andragogy was developed into a theory of adult education by Eugen Rosenstock-Huessy. It later became very popular in the US by the American educator Malcolm Knowles. Knowles asserted that andragogy (Greek: "man-leading") should be distinguished from the more commonly used term pedagogy (Greek: "child-leading").

Knowles collected ideas about a theory of adult education from the end of World War II until he was introduced to the term "androgogy". In 1966, Knowles met Dušan Savićević in Boston. Savićević was the one who shared the term andragogy with Knowles and explained how it was used in the European context. In 1967, Knowles made use of the term "andragogy" to explain his theory of adult education. Then after consulting with Merriam-Webster, he corrected the spelling of the term to "andragogy" and continued to make use of the term to explain his multiple ideas about adult learning.

Knowles' theory can be stated with six assumptions related to the motivation of adult learning:

 * 1) Need to know: Adults need to know the reason for learning something.
 * 2) Foundation: Experience (including error) provides the basis for learning activities.
 * 3) Self-concept: Adults need to be responsible for their decisions on education; involvement in the planning and evaluation of their instruction.
 * 4) Readiness: Adults are most interested in learning subjects having immediate relevance to their work and/or personal lives.
 * 5) Orientation: Adult learning is problem-centered rather than content-oriented.
 * 6) Motivation: Adults respond better to internal versus external motivators.

In most European countries, the Knowles discussion played at best, a marginal role. "Andragogy" was, from 1970 on, connected with emerging academic and professional institutions, publications, or programs, triggered by a similar growth of adult education in practice and theory as in the United States. "Andragogy" functioned here as a header for (places of) systematic reflections, parallel to other academic headers like "biology", "medicine", and "physics".

Early examples of this use of andragogy are the Yugoslavian (scholarly) journal for adult education, named Andragogija in 1969, and the Yugoslavian Society for Andragogy; at Palacky University in Olomouc (Czech Republic) the Katedra sociologie a andragogiky (Sociology and Andragogy Department) was established in 1990. Also, Prague University has a Katedra Andragogiky (Andragogical Department); in 1993, Slovenia's Andragoski Center Republike Slovenije (Slovenian Republic Andragogy Center) was founded with the journal Andragoska Spoznanja; in 1995, Bamberg University (Germany) named a Lehrstuhl Andragogik (Androgogy Chair).

On this formal level "above practice" and specific approaches, the term "andragogy" could be used relating to all types of theories, for reflection, analysis, training, in person-oriented programs, or human resource development.

Principles
Adult learning is based upon comprehension, organization and synthesis of knowledge rather than rote memory. Some scholars have proposed seven principles of adult learning:

 * Adults must want to learn: They learn effectively only when they are free to direct their own learning and have a strong inner motivation to develop a new skill or acquire a particular type of knowledge, this sustains learning.
 * Adults will learn only what they feel they need to learn – Adults are practical in their approach to learning; they want to know, "How is this going to help me right now? Is it relevant (content, connection, and application) and does it meet my targeted goals?"
 * Adults learn by doing: Adolescents learn by doing, but adults learn through active practice and participation. This helps in integrating component skills into a coherent whole.
 * Adult learning focuses on problem solving: Adolescents tend to learn skills sequentially. Adults tend to start with a problem and then work to find a solution. A meaningful engagement, such as posing and answering realistic questions and problems is necessary for deeper learning. This leads to more elaborate, longer lasting, and stronger representations of the knowledge (Craik & Lockhart, 1972).
 * Experience affects adult learning: Adults have more experience than adolescents. This can be an asset and a liability, if prior knowledge is inaccurate, incomplete, or immature, it can interfere with or distort the integration of incoming information (Clement, 1982; National Research Council, 2000).
 * Adults learn best in an informal situation: Adolescents have to follow a curriculum. Often, adults learn by taking responsibility for the value and need of content they have to understand and the particular goals it will achieve. Being in an inviting, collaborative and networking environment as an active participant in the learning process makes it efficient.
 * Adults want guidance and consideration as equal partners in the process: Adults want information that will help them improve their situation. They do not want to be told what to do and they evaluate what helps and what doesn't. They want to choose options based on their individual needs and the meaningful impact a learning engagement could provide. Socialization is more important among adults.

Academic discipline
In the field of adult education during recent decades, a process of growth and differentiation emerged as a scholarly and scientific approach, andragogy. It refers to the academic discipline(s) within university programs that focus on the education of adults; andragogy exists today worldwide. The term refers to a new type of education which was not qualified by missions and visions, but by academic learning including: reflection, critique, and historical analyses.

Dušan Savićević, who provided Knowles with the term andragogy, explicitly claims andragogy as a discipline, the subject of which is the study of education and learning of adults in all its forms of expression' (Savicevic, 1999, p. 97, similarly Henschke, 2003, ), Reischmann, 2003.

Recent research and the COVID 19 pandemic have expanded andragogy into the online world internationally, as evidenced by country and international organizations that foster the development of adult learning, research and collaboration in educating adults. New and expanding online instruction is fostered by national organizations, literacy organizations, academic journals and higher education institutions that are helping adults to achieve learning and skills that will contribute to individual economic improvement.

New learning resources and approaches are identified, such as finding that using collaborative tools like a wiki can encourage learners to become more self-directed, thereby enriching the classroom environment. Andragogy gives scope to self-directed learners and helps in designing and delivering the focused instructions. The methods used by andragogy can be used in different educational environments (e.g. adolescent education).

Internationally there are many academic journals, adult education organizations (including government agencies) and centers for adult learning housed in a plethora of international colleges and universities that are working to promote the field of adult learning, as well as adult learning opportunities in training, traditional classes and in online learning.

In academic fields, andrologists are those who practice and specialize in the field of andragogy. Andragologists have received a doctoral degree from an accredited university in Education (EdD) or a Philosophy (PhD) and focused their dissertation utilizing andragogy as a main component of their theoretical framework.

Differences in learning: The Pedagogy, andragogy and heutagogy continuum
In the 20th century, adult educators began to challenge the application of pedagogical theory and teacher-centered approaches to the teaching of adults. Unlike children, adult learners are not transmitted knowledge. Rather, the adult learner is an active participant in their learning. Adult students also are asked to actively plan their learning process to include identifying learning objectives and how they will be achieved. Knowles (1980) summarized the key characteristics of andragogy in this model: 1) independency or self-directedness 2) using past experiences to construct learning, 3) association with readiness to learn, and 4) changing education perspectives from subject-centered one to performance centered perspectives.

A new educational strategy has evolved in response to globalization that identifies learners as self-determined, especially in higher education and work-place settings: heutagogy, a process where students learn on their own with some guidance from the teacher. The motivation to learn comes from the students' interest in not only performing, but being recognized for their accomplishment (Akiyildiz, 2019). In addition, in heutagogy, learning is learner-centric - where the decisions relating to the learning process are managed by the student. Further, the student determines whether or not the learning objectives are met.

Differences between pedagogy, andragogy, and heutagogy include:

Critique
There is no consensus internationally on whether andragogy is a learning theory or a set of principles, characteristics or assumptions of adult learning. Knowles himself changed his position on whether andragogy applied only to adults and came to believe that "pedagogy-andragogy represents a continuum ranging from teacher-directed to student-directed learning and that both approaches are appropriate with children and adults, depending on the situation." Hanson (1996) argues that the difference in learning is not related to the age and stage of one's life, but instead related to individual characteristics and the differences in "context, culture and power" within different educational settings.

In another critique of Knowles' work, Knowles was not able to use one of his principles (Self-concept) with adult learners to the extent that he describes in his practices. In one course, Knowles appears to allow "near total freedom in learner determination of objectives" but still "intended" the students to choose from a list of 18 objectives on the syllabus. Self-concept can be critiqued not just from the instructor's point of view, but also from the student's point of view. Not all adult learners will know exactly what they want to learn in a course and may seek a more structured outline from an instructor. An instructor cannot assume that an adult will desire self-directed learning in every situation.

Kidd (1978) goes further by claiming that principles of learning have to be applied to lifelong development. He suggested that building a theory on adult learning would be meaningless, as there is no real basis for it. Jarvis even implies that andragogy would be more the result of an ideology than a scientific contribution to the comprehension of the learning processes. Knowles himself mentions that andragogy is a "model of assumptions about learning or a conceptual framework that serves as a basis for an emergent theory." There appears to be a lack of research on whether this framework of teaching and learning principles is more relevant to adult learners or if it is just a set of good practices that could be used for both children and adult learners.

The way adults learn is different from the pedagogical approach used to foster learning in K-12 settings. These learning differences are key and can be used to show that the six characteristics/principles of andragogy remain applicable when designing teaching and learning materials, in English as a Foreign Language (EFL), for example.

title: Andragogy


text:
Talk:Andragogy

This is quite unoriginal
This article is largely a rip from andragogy.net. No question we need references, but I would think that wikipedia authors should be providing fresh syntheses, not just direct copies or paraphrases of existing material. No? Iatttmp (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:48, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

Original research is not allowed on Wikipedia but this article could be/should be improved with a stronger lede and encyclopedic format. . . I can tag the article but if you have the time, why not try your hand at editing. . . there are "watchers" should you need help.65.190.196.45 (talk) 16:02, 4 December 2013 (UTC)

instructional theory vs. learning theory
Andragogy is an instructional theory focused on mature learners (adults). Instructional theory and learning theory are different. Learning theory would be behaviorism, cognitivism, humanism, and constructivism. Instructional theory includes diaskagogy, pedagogy, andragogy, and heutagogy. Instructional theory relates to age and/or maturity.Stmullin (talk) 21:28, 25 June 2013 (UTC)

Temp page made
I'm not the original author, but I stumbled across this while surfing the Wikipedia. I've made a temp page because I think this would be a useful thing for the Wikipedia to have in it. Jimhutchins 13:04, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Andragogy and Motivation
Andragogy also covers motivational aspects of the adult learner.

This will need to be further elaborated with content and references. In particular, andragogy indicates that Adult learners are not motivated the same way as young learners. In particular they want that what they learn is related to their experience. Nabeth (talk) 12:48, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Needs fleshing out
Andragogy is a complex issue. Should add the work of Karen Kitchener (Kitchener, King, & DeLuca), which tends to support and expand upon both Knowles and Piaget. See Merriam & Cafferella 3rd ed. for capsule discussion of critics of Knowles' andragogy. One claim is that andragogy itself is not a theory. However, critics have not been able to say what andragogy *is* if it is *not* a theory. Moreover, the word "theory" desperately needs disambiguation when it comes to this topic. 24.99.207.164 (talk) 23:15, 30 March 2008 (UTC) kc64

ericka roldan ralpie lozada ?
What is the relevence of the text "ericka roldan ralpie lozada" in the second section ("Diversity and generalization")? - is this meant to be here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.134.122.64 (talk) 16:38, 15 October 2010 (UTC)

Etymology
I do not mind neologisms, but I think greek aner andros means human male as opposed to gynaïka. Are the latter excluded ? 62.88.20.54 (talk) 14:19, 14 November 2010 (UTC)Michel Franckart michel.franckart@euphonynet.be

 * And is Google Translate a valid reference now??--141.23.79.252 (talk) 08:12, 22 November 2012 (UTC)

 * Good question. I don't see this addressed in the article, over a decade later.  What about "gynaegogy" or "gynegogy"?  See e.g. https://www.doceo.co.uk/l%26t/learning/knowlesa.htm.
 * Is there not a gender-neutral term in Greek?
 * —DIV (137.111.13.4 (talk) 05:30, 15 March 2022 (UTC))

Critique section
Could be more specific after stating both are appropriate for children and adults, and how it changes from teacher directed to student directed.This is part of a college course project Beltonb (talk) 08:47, 14 December 2012 (UTC)

Possible copyright problem
This article has been revised as part of a large-scale clean-up project of multiple article copyright infringement. (See the investigation subpage) Earlier text must not be restored, unless it can be verified to be free of infringement. For legal reasons, Wikipedia cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or printed material; such additions must be deleted. Contributors may use sources as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously. Justlettersandnumbers (talk) 11:51, 27 April 2014 (UTC)

Approaches
Specific approaches followed in andragogy could be added.Aashitha6 (talk) 09:25, 25 September 2015 (UTC)

What are learning styles doing here?
There is a) no reason to include a section on adult learning styles, that have nothing at all to do with andragogy and b) substantial critique of the whole concept of learning styles that suggests they are no more valid than astrology. I propose removing that section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jondron (talk • contribs) 17:45, 21 June 2016 (UTC) Jondron (talk) 17:46, 21 June 2016 (UTC)
 * Checked, included in every major higher education-success factors index related books, which shows acceptance of the sourced given content and its relevance.117.215.197.142 (talk) 21:28, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Reverting back actions possibly due to lack of faith and ill practices. Adding an additional book screenshot (its an old one, but acknowledges what the deleted content says) for future lack of faith measures and to lessen counts of edit war lovers: https://i.imgsafe.org/01924ef585.jpg — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.213.18.127 (talk) 20:19, 1 October 2016 (UTC)
 * On the contrary, there is no case for including this section which makes controversial claims with very poor sourcing. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 16:28, 2 October 2016 (UTC)

Explain your "controversial" statement consistently. 117.242.252.81 (talk) 11:35, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Compare and contrast with learning styles and then read WP:CONTENTFORK. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 12:46, 4 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Fixed as per overall input.103.196.228.39 (talk) 15:54, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Not fixed at all. To fix the content fork you have to start from the position that 'There are substantial criticisms of learning-styles approaches from scientists who have reviewed extensive bodies of research.[1][4] A 2015 peer reviewed article concluded: "Learning styles theories have not panned out, and it is our responsibility to ensure that students know that."[2]:269'. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 16:58, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Content fork no more applies here. For reasons of personal pov removing of data is unlike you as a supporter of inclusionism. There are other materials based on MBTI categories. Look into an another peer reviewed article for checking surface relevance: http://link.springer.com/article/10.1023/A:1003548313194 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.196.228.39 (talk) 17:06, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * I happened to notice this conversation because 103.196.228.39 also edited learning styles today. I'd like to point out that the article cited above, "Relations between teachers' approaches to teaching and students' approaches to learning" is not about learning styles at all, it's about student-centred learning, so I'm not sure why it was cited in this conversation. Biogeographist (talk) 13:29, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Yes, I noticed that. I guess 103.196.228.39 is trying to resolve the fork by bringing learning styles into conformity with this article.  Nothing wrong with that, of course; indeed it's likely to create more effective scrutiny of his edits. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 13:47, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Per WP:CONTENTFORK "A point of view (POV) fork is a content fork deliberately created to avoid a neutral point of view (including undue weight), often to avoid or highlight negative or positive viewpoints or facts." That is precisely what you are doing here. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 21:30, 11 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Felder, R.M. Are learning styles invalid ?. NCSU - address' both concerns. Neutrality is kept by adding "descriptors of common behavior patterns" the content didn't go all the way dejecting it and state it in a negative tone. To not mislead anyone and to avoid content fork circular link on learning styles is given, it paints vividly the point you intend to ascertain. For more details check about active learning and https://books.google.com/books?id=1qSaBAAAQBAJ&pg=PA173 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 103.196.228.39 (talk) 08:03, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The article on learning styles starts with the fact that they are basically nonsense: from the lead 'Although there is ample evidence that individuals express preferences for how they prefer to receive information,[4]:108 few studies have found any validity in using learning styles in education.[2]:267 Critics say there is no evidence that identifying an individual student's learning style produces better outcomes.[6]:33 There is evidence of empirical and pedagogical problems related to forcing learning tasks to "correspond to differences in a one-to-one fashion".[7] Well-designed studies contradict the widespread "meshing hypothesis" that a student will learn best if taught in a method deemed appropriate for the student's learning style.[4]'. Your proposed text starts from the presumption that these discredited ideas are meaningful, and that's the very essence of a CONTENTFORK. Jonathan A Jones (talk) 08:50, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Can you give a link to the article you are quoting from, it is for understanding and something like that would avoid future problems. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.141.163.68 (talk) 09:12, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * The link is at the start of the previous paragraph, but here it is again: learning styles. Enjoy, Jonathan A Jones (talk) 09:33, 12 October 2016 (UTC)
 * Oh, you are quoting it directly from wikipedia. I looked into the cited references of those statements .... what it says is learning styles are not "the exact" process, it says as in Felder article which I have mentioned above, these are potential descriptors of behaviors and the cited reference support Kolb's method in teaching or presenting the material ... helps the student. But where learning styles fails is to replicate learner's output in similar contexts....It also concludes that incorporating learning styles in teaching strategies is useful and verified to be useful to students. It is a counterargument to the idea that the student is either dumb or smart...The other article goes on with detailing the current learning style applications and with support of flawed hypothesis and no input on sample size, goes on insisting learning styles are not efficient. But also acknowledges other research materials that supports and reveals the significance value its shows, but significance shown from their own analysis is discredited by themselves to show that meshing method is not the optimal method for instruction in every fields of learning, in that aspect and thesis statement the article is a good source - they acknowledge research regarding heterogeneous learning environment and correlations is not widely present or missing and concludes with an inject about testing that isn't addressed in the article prior in experimental conditions. Ultimately it is about preferences that instructors have that is far from well-being of students - a classic clash between passive vs active teaching and facilitation of such learning environment. So, I am not going to correct prevarications in learning styles or advocate there on choosing appropriate sources (This is something you see everyday in wikipedia, some gets noticed...some are left knowingly or for future editors). Overall, I don't find keeping 3-4 lines on learning styles with neutrality would be against any wikipedia policies. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.141.163.68 (talk) 09:12, 12 October 2016 (UTC)

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Literal meaning of pedagogy as child learning is unsupported
The breakdown of Andragogy into it's Greek roots seems clear enough, but the reference to Pedagogy therefore meaning child education is unsupported for the following reasons: 1) the link to pedagogy does not use the same Greek root breakdown format and does not state anywhere in the linked article that the word pedagogy has anything to do with the age of the one being educated. 2) the footnote reference to the supposed pdf article is either a broken link or does not exist. (as of January 22, 2022 at 5:25 Mountain Time) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:56A:70E6:5000:CC42:FCD1:97DD:EA07 (talk) 00:25, 23 January 2022 (UTC)

What are the relevant recent issues that should be added to this article?
Given that the article has no added citations since 2010, shouldn't we add online learning, training, and diversity? What else? Pikelake6 (talk) 01:24, 18 September 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Teaching and Learning with the Internet
— Assignment last updated by jmenglund (talk) 16:08, 18 October 2022 (UTC)

Chart has been updated in table
I would appreciate guidance on making the table more readable - I changed the image to a table but there is not opportunity to edit in terms of font, spacing, bullets, etc.Thanks Pikelake6 (talk) 03:43, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

 * You should add references to the entries in the table to make it clear where these statements come from. Deb (talk) 09:10, 4 December 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Andragogy