text:
Talk:Probate

I'm the person who made the substub. I think the subject is worthy of a wikipedia article. I'm just not qualified to write it.

dont let probate die!
I have no clue how any of this works but my father just passed and did not leave a will. There is no one...never remarried no other children so we are scared that this process would get drug out long and painful. Not sure if he owes any money to state or government and if he did it would be minor. Any insight to how this may play out. We are most concerned his property will get locked up and we will not have access to our fathers personal things. ??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.125.122.67 (talk) 18:45, 12 September 2009 (UTC)

Somebody needs to put information here on the informal and formal probate process from start to finish all the way across that would helpt a lot of people!!!!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.88.77.142 (talk) 21:25, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

 * It'd be good if you had signed your name. Then we might have a better idea as to what is actually going on here and bounce some ideas off you about how to make this article better. Also, you might consider actually researching the topic and writing at least a complete stub yourself. I'd very much like to hear your ideas on the topic and work with you to flesh this out rather than letting it get ported over to wiktionary...--Jpittman 17:05, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I wrote an article sized article on probate, but my only knowledge is in the US, which I believe is based on English law and custom (but I don't have any idea). Article would benefit from someone more worldly in this matter.  Is probate unique to certain countries? Tempshill 18:55, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Not sure, I am an iggurant American. There's a fairly detailed explanation of British probate procedure at administration. Ellsworth 01:01, 6 Feb 2005 (UTC)

English perspective

I've been tweaking the administration pages regarding the English law of succession; I would like to amend the initial definition of probate as here and in Commonwealth countries probate is the term for the process only where there is a will. Could someone clarify if that's the same in the US? I've put in a change but obviously if that should apply to the US too then it'll need changing again.
 * In the US probate is the generally understood term for the process of administering a will. It is called by different things in different states though. Intestate succession is also handled by probate court in some states, so many people call it probate even if it is technically not (I don't know) I suppose. Is that what you were looking for? - Taxman Talk 19:06, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

My attention was also drawn to the point of a trust as entity: is a trust an entity? Not under common law, Hague Convention etc, for tax purposes in the US yes a trust may be treated as an entity but query whether we should be definining what a trust *is* or how *it is treated*. An entity may be created to act as trustee but the trust itself does not have legal form.
 * Hmm, I'll defer to attny's on this point, but at least in the US a trust is in many cases treated like an entity, especially for taxation as you mentioned. In the case of an irrevocable trust even moreso it seems. The irrevocable trust is no longer the property of the grantor, has its own tax id number, and would be sued separately from the grantor, trustee, and beneficiary I would presume. A living trust would not be a separate entity in most treatments though, so that complicates things too. Though like I said, I'm not an attorney and I'm only familiar with US estate planning. - Taxman Talk 19:06, August 15, 2005 (UTC)

MMnn seems non- US probate is simply relegated to a footnote. Not all the world lives in the US ! Why is englishe probate simply headed "see administration". In Australian law probate & administration are two different things, so we still need a section for probate.Suastiastu

The Purpose of Probate
The introductory sentence of this article asserts that "Probate is the legal process of settling the estate of a deceased person; specifically, distributing the decedent's property." In reality, the purpose of probate is twofold. Nominally, it is to distribute the decedent's property to his or her rightful heirs. An equally important function of probate -- some would say the real reason probate exists -- is to notify a decedent's creditors of his or her passing so that said creditors can present legal claims against the decedent's estate. While the heirs of a decedent are most often laypersons, creditors are typically sophisticated and powerful entities who are intimately familiar with the procedures of probate. Without probate, the property of a decedent would pass to his or her heirs, rightful or otherwise, and the creditors would have no opportunity to collect what is due them. In practice, the heirs to an estate, rightful or otherwise, often take what they want without notifying anyone -- i.e., steal anything of value -- and there are no property or funds left to pay the decedent's creditors. // Internet Esquire 01:28, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

 * The use of the word "probate" to refer to the entire process of administering a decedent's estate, and regardless of whether or not there is a will, always makes me cringe. Although that is a popular meaning of the word, I think than an encyclopedia should be more precise, and that an article on "probate" should be limited to the probate of wills, with a cross-reference to other articles on intestacy and the administration of decedent's estates.  Evansdb 12:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

=Here in Maryland we see the process of probate (testate and intestate) law as the process: to protect the interests of the decedent and their wishes, to protect the heirs, legatees and claimants, and to protect the tax revenue detailed in Tax General. Contrary to popular belief, most estates have very minimal amounts owed to others. I'm not suggesting that some estates aren't insolvent, however I would not classify probate as the way to "protect" big and powerful and all-knowing entities. Depending on that state, probate law varies wildly. In Maryland, a claimant has six months from the date of death to file a claim against the estate, where most estates takes about a year to probate. So the process is not entirely skewed to protecting debtees...Gcbeehler (talk) 03:00, 9 September 2008 (UTC)

Probative value
That's all very interesting but what about probative valu (The exclusionay discretion and weighing "probative value"? This goes hand in hand with prejudicial impact. Every day judges are faced to weigh the probative value versus the prejudicial impact. (that's why we have a pendulum scale that represents law). Do we make a new article? --CyclePat 20:36, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

Administration of an estate on death
The article Administration "just growed and growed" and had become an umbrella term covering half a dozen different concepts. The largest section was about business administration, so I MOVEd it to Administration (business) and created separate articles for the other topics. Specifically, "Adminstration of an estate on death" covers the legal concept in UK law, but may not be the best title: if anyone can think of a better title, please propose an alternative. --Concrete Cowboy 18:37, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Are you sure it is the administration of an estate on death... what if you're not dead? Missing? etc... living will? Perhaps Administration (Legal Estate)? (I'm no expert though)--CyclePat 07:02, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Yes - that is the legal term. Are you confusing "Admistration" v "administration"?  The version with a capital A arises if someone dies intestate (no will or no legally valid will).  There is a legal process to decide who gets the assets.  --Concrete Cowboy 13:15, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Wow! That's really interesting. But I can't seem to find a credible source for the words you are talking about.
 * 1 - Admistration (as you spelt it on January 9th), in my search could be found in 7 online books from NetLibrary. (None deal specifically with Will or Estate) However, the first one is on p.342-343 of Oil Politics: A Modern History of Petroleum. The digitized version however is diferent from the adobe recognized text as this quote will demonstrate: "But for the time being, in early 2001, US ef[forts] were confined, first, to malilng[making] clear to Iraq, by renewed air attacks on mrlitary[military] installations on the ground, that the new Admistration [Administration] would... than the previous one; and, second, to seelung a revamping sanctions to hurt the government more and the people less." (Parra, Fransico 342-343). My inference is that that the mistake is within the digitizing process and that the word doesn’t really exist in these books.
 * Similarly Sams Teach Yourself J2EE in 21 Days allegedly has the term Admistration but when you go to page 54 it is actual "Asadmin"
 * Furthermore, Meriam-Webster Online and the Online Etymology Dictionary have no definitions for Admistration.
 * 2 - Adminstration (as you spelt it in on January 8th), in my search appears in 85 books. None deal specifically with Wills or Estate. However, there is a book that deals with law of evidence… and ironically it appears to be my specialty (as per the probative value). ‘’ Beyond Reasonable Doubt and Probable Cause: Historical Perspectives On the Anglo-American Law of Evidence‘’ on page 268, which is the notes section states:
 * “90. Trial of Lyon (1799) for seditious libel, reprinted in Francis Wharton, State Trials of the United States during the Adminstrations of Washington and Adams (Philadelphia, 1849), 333, 336”
 * Further investigation into the endnote brings us to "Chapter 1, The "Satisfied Conscience" Test and Casuistry[sic], The cases…" or page 24 and states:
 * “The beyond reasonable doubt standard also appears in a number of U.S. trials around the turn of the century. The 1798 trial of Matthew Lyon for seditious libel in the Circuit Court for the Vermont District indicates that the standard was being applied early in the history of the new nation. The judge informed the jury, "you must be satisfied beyond all reasonable substantial doubt that hypothesis of innocence is unsustainable."”
 * Nevertheless, Meriam-Webster Online has no definition for Adminstration and furthermore suggests the definition administration, administrations and administrator. Finally, Online Etymology Dictionary has nothing for Adminstration.[ http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?search=Adminstration&searchmode=none]
 * 3 - Administration (as I've spelt it) can be found practically everywhere. So I've limited the search for "Administration of Estate" and found 104 books on NetLibrary. For example, “Dictionary of Legal Terms: A Simplified Guide to the Language of Law” by Gifis, Steven H., stipulates on p.274:
 * ”LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION: document issued by a probate court appointing the administrator or ‘’’administratrix’’’[Sic] of the estate of a decedent. If the decedent left a will naming a particular executor or executrix, the corresponding term for the court document is LETTERS TESTAMENTARY. If the decedent left a will but failed to name an executor or the named executor of a will cannot or refuses to serve, the document is termed LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION CTA. CTA stands for the Latin CUM TESTAMENTO ANNEXO and means "with the will annexed." If a previous administrator or executor fails to complete the administration of the estate the document is called LETTERS OF ADMINISTRATION DBN. DBN stands for the Latin DE BONIS NON and means "goods not administered." Modern usage has favored the term SUCCESSOR ADMINISTRATOR.”
 * Furthermore this dictionary also references the term LETTERS TESTAMENTARY towards this afformentioned letters of administration.
 * Other book titles include: “The Complete Idiot's Guide to Wills and Estates”, wich stipulates that “During estate administration (estate's fiduciary tax return) Some estates may have to file federal estate tax returns and state death tax returns.” Or “Mind and Hand: The Birth of MIT”, and “Keeping the Faith: A Cultural History of the U.S. Supreme Court” by Semonche, which states on page 310 “Confronting an Iowa law that gave preference to men in selecting administrators of decedents' estates, they unanimously struck down the preference. Administrative convenience, the Court said, cannot justify the making of "the very kind of arbitrary legislative choice forbidden by the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment."15” or page 325, “The justices never determined that illegitimacy was a suspect classification and at times recognized a legitimate governmental interest in the orderly administration of estates, but the thrust of the decisions was in the direction of removing the law's reflection of the social opprobrium of illegitimacy.” And finally the most commonly book “CliffsNotes Planning Your Retirement” appears to be the simplest most logical stating that “An attorney who is qualified to practice law in your state knows the laws of inheritance, the system of estate administration, and the proper language of the will.”
 * We have a bigger issue here. Most of the other books deal with administration of business, real estate, financial planning, etc… (and don’t forget this is a limited search because we added the ). In fact there are 4775 books with just Administration ranging from themes and title like public management, policing sexual assault, feminism, Criminal Justice, and even Multimedia: Drug Administration by Inhalation: Merck Manual Home Edition. The problem is deeply routed in choosing the proper terminology and having the correct spelling. What term is of larger popularity and abiding by wiki policy. If in fact what you say is true I couldn't find a reliable source for referencing. Could you please send me your references? Thank you! --CyclePat 16:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Further to my research, since I only quote one law book that was created by one author, I decide to check the Oxford online legal dictionary. I still haven't found the terms you mentioned. However, "de bonis non administratis" is a Lating word that makes reference to the letter of administration for an estate or will.

 * In turn, as I mentioned above, but I will restate, a Letters of administration is an "Authority granted by the court to a specified person to act as an administrator of a deceased person's estate when the deceased dies intestate (Non-Contentious Probate Rules 22).

 * I think we should concentrate perhaps on terms like "ad colligenda bona  [Latin]To collect the goods. The court may grant letters of administration ad colligenda bona to any person to deal with specified property in an estate when that property might be endangered by delay."

 * Ok, so I mis-spelt it. I'll move it.  More to the point, I just unpicked the disparate components a really messy article and pasted this one verbatim.  Looking back through the history of Administration (which has been MOVEd to and is now at Administration (business), the person who contributed this material was an anon editor.  I have no expertise whatever in this topic, which is why I invited editors from the US-biased probate article.  If I may, I will make my excuses and leave!  --Concrete Cowboy 18:00, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I am just folliwing through with everything I do. Quality is sometimes better than quantity. On that note however sometimes the right person can come along and have a good quality comment... or on the other hand they can have a good quality contribution by doing research. Our levels of contributions are somewhat different however we are trying our best. Your global overview and insite into other subjects helped me for example find some interesting sources that we can now add or use in many articles. I hope the information didn't scare you away but instead provided further incite into the real work that needs to be done, not only for this article but most articles on wikipedia. Of course I mean that in the most coloquial (however that is spelt) of ways. Please accept my appology and humble warm welcome to stay and help out. I believe the best way to build something is to become more knowlegeable (specially if you have the time) and to analyse every aspect. --CyclePat 04:42, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Please do! (No offence taken - I certainly didn't intend to create that impression). All I'm saying is that I'm an "accidental editor" on this one - I created it only because I had to, while sorting out the messy article that was Administration.  But I created it by copy/paste (since only one aspect of it can be MOVEd) and otherwise I know nothing about it.  None of it is my original work. I really don't believe in editing articles that I don't at least know enough to know what I don't know!  I'm very happy to leave it to those who do. --Concrete Cowboy 13:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

 * In Talk:Estate (law) I suggested that a better article title would be "Decedent's Estates" which would differentiate the administration of a decedent's estate from the administration of the estate of a minor, or the administration of the estate of an incompetent or incapacitated person, or the administration of a bankrupt's estate, and would combine Probate (which in the US really refers-technically speaking-only to the proof of the validity of a will) and Administration of an estate on death (which is otherwise the more generic concept, but a longer title than is needed, IMO). Evansdb 12:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

 * It is certainly too long, but anything shorter needs to be precise (and international - I've never seen "decedent" before). Note also that (at present) it is about UK law so that needs to be internationised too.  So what is generalised concept called? You are certainly right about the other kinds of Administration - so how about Administration (law) and have sections on the different types of legal Administration?  I'm way out of my depth here! --Concrete Cowboy 18:00, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Question
How illegal is it in the US to squat in a home during probate? 72.15.89.210 07:54, 30 July 2007 (UTC)

What state? Also you'd have to look at squatting laws, and presumably if something is going through the process of probate your claim to that property is probably not sufficient to "squat" there.. Gcbeehler (talk) 01:05, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

By "Squat", do you mean moving into and living in someone else's home, a person you have no connection with? If so, 'squatting is just as illegal as it would be if the person were still alive. Your trespassing. (though you might be slightly less likely to get caught). However, in California, if you occupy a property continuously for 5 yrs, claim ownership, and pay the property taxes, you can ask the Court to declare you the owner by Adverse Possession. —Preceding unsigned comment added by John Gottes (talk • contribs) 01:44, 5 May 2009 (UTC)

Clean Up
This page needs a lot of clean up and referencing. The discussion of "Avoiding Probate" is out of place, doesn't really discuss the topic (there are other reasons to wish to avoid probate), and probate isn't always necessary in the United States. Moreover, most of the discussion (at least as it stands) could be done away with by a reference out to an article on trusts. Most importantly, there is absolutely no reference to the Uniform Probate Code (UPC). Probate in the United States, is a general term for Administration of Estates it is only historically a reference to the proving of wills. Wills are still proved but intestate estates are "probated" as well. The process can vary widely where the UPC has not been adopted. I'm collaborating on a probate practice manual for attorneys and will take a longer look at this as I get more time. Doug. 07:47, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

EstateSettlement.com
In my edit summary for this edit I promised to explain at talk. I see a couple of problems. Firstly, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and the tone of this material is entirely wrong for us. That, of course, might have been fixable. However, the fact that the information is copied from a website (EstateSettlement.com) which has a copyright notice means that we cannot accept this material at all. The notice is fairly prominent and reads "© Copyright 2008 All Rights Reserved EstateSettlement.com". See WP:COPYVIO for more detail on this policy. I note the comment "(submitted by site owner)" after the source, but I don't think that's nearly enough to satisfy our copyright policy: it's inconsistent to release material under our licence, GFDL, yet reserve all rights in the same material elsewhere. Besides, we cannot necessarily accept that a user is the owner of another site just because they claim to us that they are. If you still feel this material is appropriate, feel free to discuss the matter, here. AndyJones (talk) 16:09, 25 June 2008 (UTC)

Probate by State
I think it would be a good idea to split or list the process of probate (and non-probate) in each state. Substantial differences can be noted on how each of these systems work, where the buildings are located (i.e. here in Maryland each county has a Register of Wills, which is run by a Registrar who is elected every four years, however the Register of Wills is a division of the Orphan's court, dramatically different who how other states handle their probate courts), what the breakdown is for probate fees, limitations to will registration, are lawyers required for probate, and etc.

I'd be willing to tackle Maryland's probate law, at least from the perspective as an auditor for the state (I assess probate and inheritance tax, and audit accounts to closing), however, it would be goofy to only have a single state's probate law.

Anyways this is more of a ramble, then a concise post, however I'd be willing to work with someone to do some of the probate state pages (I have some experience with Ohio and Florida Probate law as well) Gcbeehler (talk) 01:06, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Avoiding Probate?
Noticed this addition by Justin D Spealman

"Probate can also be avoided by setting up P.O.D (paid on death) designations on all of your bank accounts and T.O.D (transfer on death) on all your brokerage accounts, 401k's and IRA's that have named beneficiaries will automaticly avoid probate. As for real estate its a little different, you must add a named beneficary to your deed, which is done by utilizing a Life Estate Deed, the property can be passed several generations using this method. The key to avoiding probate is having named beneficiaries on all of your assets, that is the case for life insurance as well. A some what common error on life insurance is naming the insureds estate as the contingent beneficiary doing so will place the proceeds from that policy into probate."

I think it's important to weigh assets in planning an estate. Obviously having an inter vivos trust written for an estate that has 200,000K in assets is probably ill-advised. The big myth about trusts is that they avoid probate. Almost every estate out there has something that hasn't been added to the trust, and the estate has to go to probate for that item to "pour over" into the trust.

Another point to emphasis is what probate fees will be versus what a trust costs. An estate in Maryland of $2,000,000 to $5,000,000 would have a probate fee of $2,500, with anything over $5,000,000 being $2,500 plus .02% of the amount exceeding $5,000,000. Additionally trust still have to pay Maryland Estate taxes, as well as Federal estate taxes if they qualify.

An advantage of a living trust is keeping finances out of public record. However if money is left to collaterals, inheritance taxes will still be assessed. Also MET and the Fed's still expect you to provide itemized details of assets. Another advantage is having a legacy left to provide for others and to control asset management for them, such as special needs children.

More needs to be done to explain these myths and help people decide what they really accomplish with a trust. I know it sounds fancy to say you have a Trust, however if you paid $5,000 in 2008 to avoid $500 in probate fees in 2048, I don't think you're the one winning in the long run.

Maryland Probate Fee Schedule

Gcbeehler (talk) 02:32, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Joint Accounts, Joint Property
Joint accounts/property aren't the cure all of avoiding probate. A significant gamble is being made. Adding someone's name to your account as an equal, aside from exposing you to them emptying the account, put you at risk on paying taxes on your own money.

Consider this, which is a fairly typical scenario for a shared checking account between two collaterals (taxables).

Person A (Tim) has a checking account with $100,000 in it, Tim's best friend is Greg. Tim adds Greg as a joint owner with rights of survivorship to the account expecting that he will die before Greg does. All $100,000 was contributed by Tim, and not a penny was added by Greg. Greg unexpectedly dies before Tim. It plays out like so:

The account is assumed to be owned by both people in equal shares. So $50,000 is Greg's and $50,000 is Tim's, however in reality all of the money was Tim's to begin with. Tim will be assessed inheritance tax on Greg's half of $50,000. In Maryland, the collateral inheritance tax is 10%, Tim would pay $5,000 to "inherit" the $50,000. So what was gained by with joint account?

There are other risks involved as well, especially if the asset involving assets that are constantly changing in value. Almost all assets are valued at date of death. So if this account was $100,000 in stock/bonds/real estate when Greg passed away, and like recently the market has slide, Tim still pays tax on the original value of $50,000 regardless of whether it's worth $50,000 in the future. (this goes both ways, if the stocks/bonds/real estate appreciate to $500,000 after date of death, tax is only paid on $50,000).

Gcbeehler (talk) 02:44, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

different meaning?
in looking for videos on probate on youtube, i came across many that have to do with african-american fraternities and sororities. clearly unrelated to this meaning. apparently a ceremony of some sort. initiation? thoughts on a small mention of differentiation in the article?Toyokuni3 (talk) 15:55, 26 June 2016 (UTC)

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Probate Abbreviation
I'm sure this is a minor matter, but pointed out that "pr." isn't exactly often used as an abbreviation for "probate". Nor is the statement wrong. I'm partial to "prob."; I've seen it before in multiple courts, etc. Thoughts? — Javert2113 (talk) 15:38, 6 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I have tried unsuccessfully to delete this so-called “abbreviation.” I was a practising lawyer in England for 43 years and never saw it used. If the word was abbreviated, for example in an Abstract of Title, it was always “Pbte”, or more usually “Gt of Pbte.” “pr.” could mean anything; a large number of English words begin with those letters, and it is commonly used instead of “pair,” as in e.g. “pr. of socks” or “per pr.” when pricing two items sold together. I’ve never heard of the dictionary of abbreviations quoted, either. Wikipedia please note.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.108.81.253 (talk) 16:37, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree that the abbreviation should be removed. If nobody objects, I suggest boldly going ahead and making the change. Arllaw (talk) 19:54, 10 April 2018 (UTC)
 * I agree with the above, and there have been no objections in over two months. Even if it's not incorrect per se, "pr." isn't an official abbreviation (the source quoted is a general abbreviations dictionary, not a legal textbook) and there are many variants, (e.g., the courts service uses "PA" (their probate form reference is "PA1"). jamacfarlane (talk) 19:30, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Ah, I'd forgotten about this conversation. Well, nemine contradicente, nemine contradicente, nemine contradicente. I'll change it, then. — Javert2113 (Siarad.|¤) 19:48, 26 June 2018 (UTC)
 * Whoops, looks like it's been done already. Thanks, everyone! — Javert2113 (Siarad.|¤) 19:49, 26 June 2018 (UTC)

Wrong statement, for real property, and "resided"
The article now says (Sep. 24, 2019): "If the decedent dies without a will, known as intestacy, the estate is distributed according to the laws of the state where the decedent resided." In the USA that is false. Real property (land, easements, servitudes, etc.) is distributed according to the law in force where the land is, not (necessarily) the law "of the state where the the decedent resided," even if a will is probated (proven up) in the decedent's state of domicile. (There is in rem probate jurisdiction for real property.) Furthermore, it is the law at the decedent's legal domicile at death, not the residence, that determines probate jurisdiction and applicable law for personal (non-land, non-real) property. If the decedent was domiciled in state A and owned land in a different state B, then the personal property (money, securities, furniture, etc.) passes by the law of state A, and the real property in state B passes by the law of state B. Usually the estate's executor is required to appoint a separate ancillary administrator in a state B probate court in order to distribute the land there (after paying off any local creditors there of the deceased). See, generally, textbooks about "Conflict of Laws" and the Restatement of Conflict of Laws 2. 2600:1700:2000:E740:1AA:1205:7C67:D0D5 (talk) 07:53, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Probate


text:
Predeterminism

Predeterminism is the philosophy that all events of history, past, present and future, have been already decided or are already known (by God, fate, or some other force), including human actions.

Predeterminism is closely related to determinism. The concept of predeterminism is often argued by invoking causal determinism, implying that there is an unbroken chain of prior occurrences stretching back to infinity. In the case of predeterminism, this chain of events has been pre-established, and human actions cannot interfere with the outcomes of this pre-established chain. Predeterminism can be used to mean such pre-established causal determinism, in which case it is categorised as a specific type of determinism. It can also be used interchangeably with causal determinism—in the context of its capacity to determine future events. Despite this, predeterminism is often considered as independent of causal determinism. The term predeterminism is also frequently used in the context of biology and heredity, in which case it represents a form of biological determinism.

Definitional difficulties
Predeterminism is difficult to discuss because its simple definition can logically lead to a variety of similar, complex (and, perhaps, better defined) concepts in metaphysics, theology, and the philosophy of free will. The term predeterminism suggests not just a determining of all events, but the prior and deliberately conscious determining of all events (therefore done, presumably, by a conscious being). Due to this, predeterminism and the similar term determinism are easily and often confused or associated with ideas ranging, for instance, from the physicalist (and often scientific) notion of causal determinism to even the theological (and often religious) notion of predestination.

A secular example to try to illustrate predeterminism is that a fetus's future physical, emotional, and other personal characteristics as a matured human being may be considered "predetermined" by heredity, i.e. derived from a chain of events going back long before their eventual birth. However, one of the difficulties with defining predeterminism using this example is that the word predetermine necessarily implies a conscious being "doing" the determining ahead of time. With regards to predetermined heredity, a conscious being (perhaps a genetic scientist) is presumed to be the one speculating on what the fetus's personal characteristics will turn out to be, for example, based on looking at the genomes of the fetus and its ancestors. If there were not this conscious entity, the scientist, then one could say merely that the fetus's characteristics are determined by heredity, rather than predetermined. Predeterminism necessarily implies, at the very least, a passive but all-knowing observer, if not an active planner, designer, or manipulator (of the fetus's personal characteristics). This basic scientific idea of hereditary determination, though, already fulfills the definition of causal determinism, a metaphysical concept.

While determinism usually refers to a naturalistically explainable causality of events, predeterminism seems by definition to suggest a person or a "someone" who is controlling or planning the causality of events before they occur and who then perhaps resides beyond the natural, causal universe. This creates a definitional conflict because predeterminism, by this understanding, logically leads to a belief in the existence of a conscious being who must determine all actions and events in advance and who, possessing such seeming omnipotence, almost certainly operates outside of the laws of nature. This conscious entity is probably, then, a being who is omnipotent as well as presumably supernatural and omniscient. The definitional confusion here is that there is already a name for this very concept: predestination. Predestination asserts that a supremely powerful being has, in advance, fixed all events and outcomes in the universe; it is a famous doctrine of the Calvinists in Christian theology.

Likewise, the doctrine of fatalism already explicitly attributes all events and outcomes to the will of a (vaguer) higher power such as fate or destiny. Furthermore, in philosophic debates about the compatibility of free will and determinism, some argue that predeterminism back to the origin of the universe is simply what philosophers mean by the more common term "determinism." Others have suggested that the term "self-determination" be used to describe actions as merely "determined" by an agent's reasons, motives, and desires.

When various interpretation of the word predeterminism can be defined even better by other terms, such as the aforementioned determinism, predestination, or fatalism, then the definition of predeterminism itself appears awkward, unclear, and perhaps even worthless in terms of practical or philosophic discussion.

R. E. Hobart
R. E. Hobart is the pseudonym of Dickinson S. Miller, a student of William James who was later one of James' closest personal friends and for some years a colleague in the Harvard philosophy department. Hobart (Miller) criticized the core idea of James' The Will to Believe, namely that it was acceptable to hold religious faith in the absence of evidence for or against that faith. James referred to Miller as "my most penetrating critic and intimate enemy."

Nearly 25 years after James' death, R. E. Hobart published a short article in Mind in 1934 that is considered one of the definitive statements of determinism and compatibilism. It was entitled Free Will as Involving Determination and Inconceivable Without It.

Hobart's compatibilism was similar to earlier landmark positions by Thomas Hobbes and David Hume, as refined in the 19th-century compatibilist views of John Stuart Mill, Henry Sidgwick, and F. H. Bradley. But unlike them Hobart explicitly did not endorse strict logical or physical determinism, and he explicitly did endorse the existence of alternative possibilities, which can depend on absolute chance.

He was writing just a few years after the discovery of quantum mechanics and indeterminacy, and also makes passing mention of the ancient "swerve" of the atoms espoused by Epicurus:

'I am not maintaining that determinism is true...it is not here affirmed that there are no small exceptions, no slight undetermined swervings, no ingredient of absolute chance.'

'"We say," I can will this or I can will that, whichever I choose". Two courses of action present themselves to my mind. I think of their consequences, I look on this picture and on that, one of them commends itself more than the other, and I will an act that brings it about. I knew that I could choose either. That means that I had the power to choose either.'

Hobart supports the existence of alternative possibilities for action and the capability to do otherwise.

And he clearly prefers "determination" to "determinism." Hobart's article is frequently misquoted as "Free Will as Involving Determinism."

Philippa Foot
Philippa Foot is one who misquoted Hobart's title, but who had the same misgivings about determinism.

In 1957 she wrote an article in The Philosophical Review entitled "Free Will As Involving Determinism."

Nevertheless, she criticized arguments that free will requires indeterminism, and in particular the idea that one could not be held responsible for "chance" actions chosen for no particular reason.

Her article begins with the observation that determinism has become widely accepted as compatible with free will.

"The idea that free will can be reconciled with the strictest determinism is now very widely accepted. To say that a man acted freely is, it is often suggested, to say that he was not constrained, or that he could have done otherwise if he had chosen, or something else of that kind; and since these things could be true even if his action was determined it seems that there could be room for free will even within a universe completely subject to causal laws."

Foot doubted that the ordinary language meaning of saying our actions are "determined" by motives has the same meaning as strict physical determinism, which assumes a causal law that determines every event in the future of the universe.

She notes that our normal use of "determined" does not imply universal determinism.

"For instance, an action said to be determined by the desires of the man who does it is not necessarily an action for which there is supposed to be a sufficient condition. In saying that it is determined by his desires we may mean merely that he is doing something that he wants to do, or that he is doing it for the sake of something else that he wants. There is nothing in this to suggest determinism in Russell's sense."

Foot cited Bertrand Russell's view of causal determinism:

"The law of universal causation . . . may be enunciated as follows:...given the state of the whole universe,...every previous and subsequent event can theoretically be determined."

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Predeterminism


text:
Bathhouse

Bathhouse may refer to:

 * Public baths, public facilities for bathing
 * Gay bathhouse, private clubs for gay men
 * The Bathhouse, a 1929 play by Vladimir Mayakovsky
 * Bathhouse: The Musical!, a 2006 musical by Tim Evanicki and Esther Daack

title: Bathhouse


text:
Biomedicine

Biomedicine (also referred to as Western medicine, mainstream medicine or conventional medicine) is a branch of medical science that applies biological and physiological principles to clinical practice. Biomedicine stresses standardized, evidence-based treatment validated through biological research, with treatment administered via formally trained doctors, nurses, and other such licensed practitioners.

Biomedicine also can relate to many other categories in health and biological related fields. It has been the dominant system of medicine in the Western world for more than a century.

It includes many biomedical disciplines and areas of specialty that typically contain the "bio-" prefix such as molecular biology, biochemistry, biotechnology, cell biology, embryology, nanobiotechnology, biological engineering, laboratory medical biology, cytogenetics, genetics, gene therapy, bioinformatics, biostatistics, systems biology, neuroscience, microbiology, virology, immunology, parasitology, physiology, pathology, anatomy, toxicology, and many others that generally concern life sciences as applied to medicine.

Overview
Biomedicine is the cornerstone of modern health care and laboratory diagnostics. It concerns a wide range of scientific and technological approaches: from in vitro diagnostics to in vitro fertilisation, from the molecular mechanisms of cystic fibrosis to the population dynamics of the HIV virus, from the understanding of molecular interactions to the study of carcinogenesis, from a single-nucleotide polymorphism (SNP) to gene therapy.

Biomedicine is based on molecular biology and combines all issues of developing molecular medicine into large-scale structural and functional relationships of the human genome, transcriptome, proteome, physiome and metabolome with the particular point of view of devising new technologies for prediction, diagnosis and therapy.

Biomedicine involves the study of (patho-) physiological processes with methods from biology and physiology. Approaches range from understanding molecular interactions to the study of the consequences at the in vivo level. These processes are studied with the particular point of view of devising new strategies for diagnosis and therapy.

Depending on the severity of the disease, biomedicine pinpoints a problem within a patient and fixes the problem through medical intervention. Medicine focuses on curing diseases rather than improving one's health.

In social sciences biomedicine is described somewhat differently. Through an anthropological lens biomedicine extends beyond the realm of biology and scientific facts; it is a socio-cultural system which collectively represents reality. While biomedicine is traditionally thought to have no bias due to the evidence-based practices, Gaines & Davis-Floyd (2004) highlight that biomedicine itself has a cultural basis and this is because biomedicine reflects the norms and values of its creators.

Molecular biology
Molecular biology is the process of synthesis and regulation of a cell's DNA, RNA, and protein. Molecular biology consists of different techniques including Polymerase chain reaction, Gel electrophoresis, and macromolecule blotting to manipulate DNA.

Polymerase chain reaction is done by placing a mixture of the desired DNA, DNA polymerase, primers, and nucleotide bases into a machine. The machine heats up and cools down at various temperatures to break the hydrogen bonds binding the DNA and allows the nucleotide bases to be added onto the two DNA templates after it has been separated.

Gel electrophoresis is a technique used to identify similar DNA between two unknown samples of DNA. This process is done by first preparing an agarose gel. This jelly-like sheet will have wells for DNA to be poured into. An electric current is applied so that the DNA, which is negatively charged due to its phosphate groups is attracted to the positive electrode. Different rows of DNA will move at different speeds because some DNA pieces are larger than others. Thus if two DNA samples show a similar pattern on the gel electrophoresis, one can tell that these DNA samples match.

Macromolecule blotting is a process performed after gel electrophoresis. An alkaline solution is prepared in a container. A sponge is placed into the solution and an agarose gel is placed on top of the sponge. Next, nitrocellulose paper is placed on top of the agarose gel and a paper towels are added on top of the nitrocellulose paper to apply pressure. The alkaline solution is drawn upwards towards the paper towel. During this process, the DNA denatures in the alkaline solution and is carried upwards to the nitrocellulose paper. The paper is then placed into a plastic bag and filled with a solution full of the DNA fragments, called the probe, found in the desired sample of DNA. The probes anneal to the complementary DNA of the bands already found on the nitrocellulose sample. Afterwards, probes are washed off and the only ones present are the ones that have annealed to complementary DNA on the paper. Next the paper is stuck onto an x ray film. The radioactivity of the probes creates black bands on the film, called an autoradiograph. As a result, only similar patterns of DNA to that of the probe are present on the film. This allows us the compare similar DNA sequences of multiple DNA samples. The overall process results in a precise reading of similarities in both similar and different DNA sample.

Biochemistry
Biochemistry is the science of the chemical processes which takes place within living organisms. Living organisms need essential elements to survive, among which are carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, calcium, and phosphorus. These elements make up the four macromolecules that living organisms need to survive: carbohydrates, lipids, proteins, and nucleic acids.

Carbohydrates, made up of carbon, hydrogen, and oxygen, are energy-storing molecules. The simplest carbohydrate is glucose, C$6$H$12$O$6$, is used in cellular respiration to produce ATP, adenosine triphosphate, which supplies cells with energy.

Proteins are chains of amino acids that function, among other things, to contract skeletal muscle, as catalysts, as transport molecules, and as storage molecules. Protein catalysts can facilitate biochemical processes by lowering the activation energy of a reaction. Hemoglobins are also proteins, carrying oxygen to an organism's cells.

Lipids, also known as fats, are small molecules derived from biochemical subunits from either the ketoacyl or isoprene groups. Creating eight distinct categories: fatty acids, glycerolipids, glycerophospholipids, sphingolipids, saccharolipids, and polyketides (derived from condensation of ketoacyl subunits); and sterol lipids and prenol lipids (derived from condensation of isoprene subunits). Their primary purpose is to store energy over the long term. Due to their unique structure, lipids provide more than twice the amount of energy that carbohydrates do. Lipids can also be used as insulation. Moreover, lipids can be used in hormone production to maintain a healthy hormonal balance and provide structure to cell membranes.

Nucleic acids are a key component of DNA, the main genetic information-storing substance, found oftentimes in the cell nucleus, and controls the metabolic processes of the cell. DNA consists of two complementary antiparallel strands consisting of varying patterns of nucleotides. RNA is a single strand of DNA, which is transcribed from DNA and used for DNA translation, which is the process for making proteins out of RNA sequences.

title: Biomedicine


text:
Friedrich Boie

Friedrich Boie (4 June 1789 – 3 March 1870) was a German entomologist, herpetologist, ornithologist, and lawyer. He was born at Meldorf in Holstein and died at Kiel. Friedrich Boie was the brother of Heinrich Boie.

In 1860, Friedrich Boie was elected a Member of the German Academy of Sciences Leopoldina.

Friedrich Boie was the author of Bemerkungen über Merrem's Versuch eines Systems der Amphibien (Isis von Oken 1827) and Auszüge aus dem System der Ornithologie (Isis von Oken 1844).

Friedrich Boie was the author of several new species and new genera of birds including the hummingbird genus Glaucis, the swallow genus Progne, the cuckooshrike genus Pericrocotus, the passerine genus Lipaugus, the owl genus Athene, and the cuckoo genus Chrysococcyx. Also, he and his brother Heinrich, working together, described about 50 new species of reptiles.

A species of Indian gecko, Cnemaspis boiei, is named in honor of Friedrich Boie or his brother Heinrich Boie.

title: Friedrich Boie


text: User talk:67.168.108.72

title: User talk:67.168.108.72


text:
User talk:MCXLVIII

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

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title: User talk:MCXLVIII


text:
Los Algodones

Los Algodones (English:The cottons) is a town and borough in the municipality of Mexicali, Baja California, Mexico. Located on the United States-Mexico border to the north and east, Los Algodones is south of Andrade, California, and close to five miles west of downtown Yuma, Arizona. It reported a population of 5,474 in the 2010 Mexican census. Los Algodones is popularly referred to as "Molar City" due to hundreds of dentists that cater to Americans seeking affordable dental care outside of the United States.

Etymology
The Spanish-language name Los Algodones translates into English as "the cotton plants". The origin of the name is unknown.

Geography
Los Algodones is the northernmost town in Mexico, and at its northeastern tip is the northernmost point in the state of Baja California, and in Latin America. Because of its unique location, it is possible to travel due north, south, east or west from Los Algodones and intersect with the US border.

From the U.S., Los Algodones is most easily reached via Interstate 8 and south a short distance (3.33 Km / 2.07 mi) along State Route 186/Andrade Road to the international border at Andrade, California. From Andrade, visitors park their vehicles and walk across the border, or drive across.

The town is at an elevation of 110 feet/33.5 m above mean sea level.

Economy
Situated near the borders of both southeastern California and southwestern Arizona, Los Algodones has become a popular tourist attraction in recent years due in part to inexpensive shopping and restaurants as well as inexpensive medical care and prescription medicines. The warm, dry climate of the area attracts a number of older tourists from across the United States and Canada who settle during the winter in the nearby towns of Yuma, Arizona, and Winterhaven, California. Organized day trips from the Coachella Valley are popular among seniors as well.

Healthcare
The popularity of both inexpensive prescriptions and medical care catering to Canadian and U.S. senior citizens has prompted a virtual explosion of pharmacies, opticians and dental offices since the 1980s. They have largely displaced many of the open-air shops and restaurants immediately across the border, and have effectively shifted the town's focus from tourism to medicine. Los Algodones has approximately 600 dentists who service uninsured Canadian and American health tourists who save 40 to 60 percent on dental services. Nevertheless, a number of shops and restaurants remain, and Los Algodones capitalizes on the tourist trade with frequent fiestas throughout the year, most notably around the Christmas season.

Transportation
Transportes Miguel Siga, a private bus company, provides service between Mexicali and Los Algodones. Yuma County Area Transit provides service from Andrade to Yuma.

title: Los Algodones


text:
General Computer Corporation

General Computer Corporation (GCC), later GCC Technologies, was an American hardware and software company formed in 1981 by Doug Macrae, John Tylko, and Kevin Curran. The company began as a video game developer and created the arcade games Ms. Pac-Man (1982) and Food Fight (1983) as a Namco distributor and affiliate, as well as designing the hardware for the Atari 7800 console and many of its games. In 1984 the company pivoted to developing home computer peripherals, such as the HyperDrive hard drive for the Macintosh 128K, and printers. GCC was disestablished in 2015.

Video games
GCC started out making mod-kits for existing arcade games - for example Super Missile Attack, which was sold as an enhancement board to Atari's Missile Command. At first Atari sued, but ultimately dropped the suit and hired GCC to develop games for Atari (and stop making enhancement boards for Atari's games without permission). They created an enhancement kit for Pac-Man called Crazy Otto which they sold to Midway, who in turn sold it as the sequel Ms. Pac-Man; they also developed Jr. Pac-Man, that game's successor.

Under Atari, Inc., GCC made the original arcade games Food Fight, Quantum, and the unreleased Nightmare; developed the Atari 2600 versions of Ms. Pac-Man and Centipede; produced over half of the Atari 5200 cartridges; and developed the chip design for the Atari 7800, plus the first round of cartridges for that system.

Peripherals
In 1984, the company changed direction to make peripherals for Macintosh computers: the HyperDrive (the Mac's first internal hard drive), the WideWriter 360 large format inkjet printer, and the Personal Laser Printer (the first QuickDraw laser printer). Prior to closing, the company focused exclusively on laser printers.

HyperDrive was unusual because the original Macintosh did not have any internal interface for hard disks. It was attached directly to the CPU, and ran about seven times faster than Apple's "Hard Disk 20", an external hard disk that attached to the floppy disk port.

The HyperDrive was considered an elite upgrade at the time, though it was hobbled by Apple's Macintosh File System, which had been designed to manage 400K floppy disks; as with other early Macintosh hard disks, the user had to segment the drive such that it appeared to be two or more partitions, called Drawers.

The second issue of MacTech Magazine, in January 1985, included a letter that summed up the excitement:

"The BIG news is from a company called General Computer. They announced a Mac mod called HyperDrive, which is a RAM expansion to 512K, and the installation of a 10 meg hard disk with the controller INSIDE THE MACINTOSH. This allows direct booting from the hard disk, free modem port, no serial I/O to slow things down, and no external box to carry around. Price is $2,795 on a 128K machine or $2195 on a 512K machine. They do the installation or you can buy a kit from your dealer."

In 1986 the company shipped the "HyperDrive 2000", a 20MB internal hard disk that also included a Motorola 68881 floating-point unit, but the speed advantage of the HyperDrive had been negated on the new Macintosh Plus computers by Apple's inclusion of an external SCSI port. General Computer responded with the "HyperDrive FX-20" external SCSI hard disk, but drowned in a sea of competitors that offered fast large hard disks.

General Computer changed its name to GCC Technologies and relocated to Burlington, Massachusetts. They continued to sell laser printers until 2015, at which point the company was disestablished.

Employees

 * Elizabeth (Betty) Ryan
 * Lucy Gilbert

title: General Computer Corporation


text: User talk:202.130.150.130

title: User talk:202.130.150.130


text:
User:MCXLVIII

Hi! Glad to be here.

title: User:MCXLVIII


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cryptomaton

Cryptomaton
Neologism, Google says zero. —tregoweth 06:20, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete - self-described neologism ("coined by [ Linux Today journalist ] Emmett Plant"). —Stormie 06:51, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Neologism.  SWAdair | Talk  08:17, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: An automaton could cast my vote. Neologism.  Authors, please write these up after they catch on, not before. Geogre 00:47, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. -- The Anome 00:53, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)


text:
Burst charge

In fireworks, a burst charge (usually black powder) is a pyrotechnic mixture placed in a shell which is ignited when the shell reaches the desired height in order to create an explosion and spread the stars. Burst charge compositions are usually coated onto rice hulls or other low-density fillers, which increases the rate of combustion.

In artillery and Naval artillery the burst charge or bursting charge is ignited by a primer at the base of the shell.

Common burst charges

 * Black powder
 * Flash powder
 * H3
 * Whistle mix

title: Burst charge


text:
Thorp T-211

The T-211 is a light aircraft designed in the US by John Thorp in 1945. It is a low-wing monoplane of conventional layout with a fixed tricycle undercarriage and a sliding canopy. John Thorp developed the Sky Scooter with lessons learned from developing the Lockheed Little Dipper project in 1944. It bears some family resemblance to the Piper Cherokee, a design that Thorp later significantly contributed to.

Development
Thorp constructed eight prototypes, had the design certified by the FAA but was unable to find a foothold in the Cessna-dominated post-war US market. The original prototypes were powered by a 65 hp Lycoming engine. Novel features of the Sky Skooter include an all-movable horizontal stabilizer and externally ribbed wings and tailplane. The wings were corrugated to impart stiffness, each wing needing only three internal ribs. This feature simplified construction, reduced the number of rivets (and weight), and helped control the spanwise flow of air over the wings. The T-211 was developed with a 90-horsepower Continental upgrade in 1953. The project was therefore shelved until the homebuilding boom saw the rights to the aircraft acquired first by Adams Industries and then by Thorp Aero in the 1970s, the latter firm building five examples as the Thorp Arrow or T-211 Aero Sport built in Sturgis Kentucky, but only sold overseas or to part 141 operations due to current liability laws. The kits were then manufactured by AD Aerospace in the United Kingdom and Venture Light Aircraft in the United States.

IndUS Aviation began production of the T-211 according to the guidelines of Light Sport Aircraft in the mid-2000s. The Thorp T-211 was the first US-designed Special Light Sport Aircraft to receive certification from the Federal Aviation Administration. The light-sport version uses the 120 hp Jabiru 3300 engine, while the type certified version uses a 100 hp Continental O-200 engine and is equipped for both VFR and IFR flying.

In 2010, the aircraft was also back in production as a kit aircraft by AD Aerospace of Manchester, United Kingdom. This model is powered by a four-cylinder 100 hp Continental O-200 or a six-cylinder 120 hp Jabiru 3300 powerplant.

Variants

 * Thorp Sky Skooter
 * 1946

 * Thorp T-211
 * 1953

 * Tubular Aircraft Products
 * 1965 - Built 100 parts kits with Continental O-200 powerplants with 11 production models built

 * Thorp Aero
 * 1983 - Purchased rights and tooling

 * IndUS Aviation
 * LSA production in India

title: Thorp T-211


text:
Financial system

A financial system is a system that allows the exchange of funds between financial market participants such as lenders, investors, and borrowers. Financial systems operate at national and global levels. Financial institutions consist of complex, closely related services, markets, and institutions intended to provide an efficient and regular linkage between investors and borrowers.

In other words, financial systems can be known wherever there exists the exchange of a financial medium (money) while there is a reallocation of funds into needy areas (financial markets, business firms, banks) to utilize the potential of ideal money and place it in use to get benefits out of it. This whole mechanism is known as a financial system.

Money, credit, and finance are used as media of exchange in financial systems. They serve as a medium of known value for which goods and services can be exchanged as an alternative to bartering. A modern financial system may include banks (public sector or private sector), financial markets, financial instruments, and financial services. Financial systems allow funds to be allocated, invested, or moved between economic sectors, and they enable individuals and companies to share the associated risks.

The components of a financial system
There are mainly four components of the financial system:

 * 1) Financial markets - the market place where buyers and sellers interact with each other and participate in the trading of bonds, shares and other assets are called financial markets.
 * 2) Financial instruments - the products which are traded in the financial markets are called financial instruments. Based on different  requirements and credit seekers, the securities in the market also differ from each others.
 * 3) Financial institutions - financial institutions are acting as a mediator between the investors and borrowers. They provide financial services for members and clients. It is also termed as financial intermediaries because they act as middlemen between the savers and borrowers. The investor's savings are mobilized either directly or indirectly via the financial markets. They offer services to organisations who want to raise funds from markets and take care of financial assets (deposits, securities, loan, etc).
 * 4) Financial services - services provided by assets management and liabilities management companies. They help to get the required funds and also make sure that they are efficiently invested. (eg. banking services, insurance services and investment services)

Banks
Banks are financial intermediaries that lend money to borrowers to generate revenue and accept deposits. They are typically regulated heavily, as they provide market stability and consumer protection. Banks include:
 * Public banks
 * Commercial banks
 * Central banks
 * Cooperative banks
 * State-managed cooperative banks
 * State-managed land development banks

Non-bank financial system
Non-bank financial systems facilitate financial services like investment, risk pooling, and market brokering. They generally do not have full banking licenses. Non-bank financial system include:
 * Finance and loan companies

Financial markets
Financial markets are markets in which securities, commodities, and fungible items are traded at prices representing supply and demand. The term "market" typically means the institution of aggregate exchanges of possible buyers and sellers of such items.

Primary markets
The primary market (or initial market) generally refers to new issues of stocks, bonds, or other financial instruments. The primary market is divided in two segment, the money market and the capital market.

Secondary markets
The secondary market refers to transactions in financial instruments that were previously issued.

Financial instruments
Financial instruments are tradable financial assets of any kind. They include money, evidence of ownership interest in an entity, and contracts.

Derivative instruments
A derivative instrument is a contract that derives its value from one or more underlying entities (including an asset, index, or interest rate).

Financial services
Financial services are offered by a large number of businesses that encompass the finance industry. These include credit unions, banks, credit card companies, insurance companies, stock brokerages, and investment funds.

title: Financial system


text:
Acton, Australian Capital Territory

Acton is a suburb of Canberra, ACT, Australia. Acton covers an area west of the CBD, bordered by Black Mountain to the west and Lake Burley Griffin in the south. The Australian National University campus covers most of the suburb, though also located in Acton is the National Film and Sound Archive, a branch of the CSIRO and the National Museum of Australia.

At the Acton had a population of 2,848 people, mostly students living at the Australian National University.

History
Acton was inhabited by Aboriginal Australian groups for thousands of years before European occupation. Part of this history is documented by the ANU Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander Heritage Trail. Sullivans Creek, which flows through Acton, provided a culturally significant source of food and resources for Aboriginal people. According to historian Bill Gammage, part of the area now used as the South Oval was purposely deforested by Aboriginal people, to form a grassland area that may have been used for hunting kangaroos, camping, or as an area to await smoke signals from nearby. Scarred trees in Acton suggest that their bark provided a valuable resource.

The suburb is named in recognition of one of the region's original homesteads 'Acton' which was sited near the present-day National Museum at the end of Liversidge Street.

With the establishment of the Federal Capital in 1911, territory administrators erected a temporary workers camp in the vicinity of 'Acton Homestead', since demolished, to house staff coordinating the development of the National Capital. The chief Surveyor Scrivener occupied Acton Homestead at an early stage during his survey of the capital site. The Bachelors' Quarters above Lennox Crossing, now renamed Lennox House, became the city's first guest house.

The alignment of Liversidge Street and Lennox Crossing follows the original line of the pre-1911 road towards the major ford across the Molonglo River. A low bridge and causeway was erected in 1911, at the site of the original river ford in an area subsequently inundated by Lake Burley Griffin.

The Acton Tunnel was built below a hill in the suburb between 1976 and 1979 as part on an extension of Parkes Way.

In 2011 a proposal was launched to build the Australia Forum, a major convention centre complex, on the lake shoreline in Acton.

Demographics
In the, the population of Acton was 2,848. In 2011, 56.9% of the population was foreign-born, the highest for any Canberra suburb.

Geology
The southern part of Acton has a complicated arrangement of sediments that include the Pittman Formation greywacke and the black-coloured Acton Shale Member from the Ordovician age. Then from the Silurian age there is mudstone, State Circle Shale, and Camp Hill Sandstone. Some limestone is found near the National Museum of Australia.

Calcareous shales from the Canberra Formation are overlain by Quaternary alluvium on the north. This rock is the limestone of the original title of Canberra, "Limestone Plains". Tertiary-age pebbly gravels are left from when the Molonglo river was at a higher level.

title: Acton, Australian Capital Territory


text:
User talk:Czas Na Zywiec

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

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Proposed deletion of File:Poland Extreme.JPG

The file File:Poland Extreme.JPG has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Orphaned, unlikely to be of encyclopedic use."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the file's talk page.

Please consider addressing the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and files for discussion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ~ Rob 13 Talk 18:59, 24 September 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Czas Na Zywiec


text:
User talk:Louisducnguyen

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

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Groove/Sharepoint
Hello. :-) I've responded to your question about Groove and SharePoint at Talk:Microsoft Office SharePoint Portal Server.  I hope the answer is helpful!  Warrens 00:47, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Reaganomics
Which explanation were you referring to? Can you find the revision that removed it in the history? Gazpacho 16:52, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

It looks like it was deleted by an anonymous user "205.188.116.73" on May 30, 2006. The article section is still on answers.com. http://www.answers.com/topic/reaganomics. Louisducnguyen 02:33, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Louisducnguyen


text:
User talk:Cereal KiIIer

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia!

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * Try the Tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the test area.
 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Remember Neutral point of view
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck!

[[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]]

P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).

Les Paul photo
You uploaded Image:Mlp5p 03.jpg, a picture of a Gibson Les Paul. I was hoping you could tell me where you got it; as you can see from the image page, it's at risk of deletion if it doesn't have any source info. Deltabeignet 04:45, 31 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Cereal KiIIer


text:
Leuna

Leuna is a town in Saxony-Anhalt, eastern Germany, south of Merseburg and Halle, on the river Saale.

The town is known for the Leunawerke, at 13 km2 one of the biggest chemical industrial complexes in Germany, where a very wide range of chemicals and plastics is produced.

In 1960, Leuna's population was nearly 10,000, but after reunification high unemployment rates and poor living conditions, including pollution from nearby industries, caused significant outward migration. Before the 31 December 2009 incorporation of ten neighbouring municipalities, its population had declined to 6,670.

Geography
The town Leuna consists of Leuna proper and the following 10 Ortschaften or municipal divisions:

 * Friedensdorf
 * Günthersdorf
 * Horburg-Maßlau
 * Kötschlitz
 * Kötzschau
 * Kreypau
 * Rodden
 * Spergau
 * Zöschen
 * Zweimen

Economy
Leuna's industrial site stretches over 13 km², making it one of the largest chemical industry sites in Germany in terms of geographical area. At the beginning of the 21st century, a wide range of chemical products and plastics are made there. A pilot plant to produce isobutylene from vegetal stock is being built by the French company Global Bioenergies and should start during 2016.

Notable people

 * Christian August Crusius (1715–1775), philosopher and evangelical theologian
 * Wolfram Adolphi (born 1951), journalist and political scientist

title: Leuna


text:
Talk:Hugs and kisses

untitled
Not sure where this should be merged... anyone? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Syynapse (talk • contribs).

According to ananonymous sources:
It has been said that perhaps it might be a good idea to maybe remove just a few of the somewhat weasel-like words from this article that many people believe otherwise would be a reasonably good article.

~Eric[who?] 184.76.225.106 (talk) 09:37, 10 April 2012 (UTC)

Jewish practice?
"Another thought is that it came from Jewish immigrants who would sign with an "O" instead of an x because they did not wish to mark their word with the obviously non-Jewish cross the x represented." Is there any evidence of this hypothesis? Like documents that Jews signed with an "O"? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.202.73.187 (talk • contribs).

 * I doubt this hypothesis too - I come from the lubelskie region of Poland, where Jews and Christians have cohabited for centuries and the term "XOXO" is unknown here. I myself have checked it in Wikipedia because I didn't know what it meant and thought it was a part of leetspeak. Also, I've heard that literacy was quite common among Jews - I think there was some religious dictation to learn kids to read and write. Therefore the need to sign documents with "O" would be much more scarce. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.48.33.248 (talk • contribs) 06:13, September 17, 2006

The "Another thought..." part is within the paragraph about possible speculation - is it not clear that this is also an unproven theory? If not, then perhaps and edit is in order. Thoughts? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Syynapse (talk • contribs).

 * Agreed that the "Jewish immigrants = O" should be cut (or referenced). 216.159.236.200 07:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Even if it was true, that jews signed documents with an "O", what would this mean for the "XOXO"-thing? I don't see the connection between this "O" and a hug. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.168.192.11 (talk • contribs) 14:17, March 6, 2007

 * Well, until some kind of verifiable source is found, let's keep it out of the article. -- Emana 21:59, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

Complete nonsense and primarily intended to discredit the entire article. Logically the circle would be representative of a hug. There is no reason for Kiss and Kiss. So the O is not equivalent to an X. Therefore the entire conjecture of this "Jewish practice" is just plain inventive nonsense and frankly insulting to illiterate Jews. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.135.168.187 (talk) 05:18, 15 January 2013 (UTC)

The O-story is just some speculation by one web page, replicated by another one. Also it does not sound very convincing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.67.64.121 (talk) 17:18, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

Alt meaning?
I always thought XOXO meant "love and kisses", but I'm just a guy, and guys like to think those things. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.215.136.34 (talk • contribs).

I found an interesting XOXO modern design/symbol with the XOXO revealing two figures interlocking together from an overhead perspective. The designer of this refer XOXO as Love & Kisses.Ohmygoddess01 (talk) 16:57, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

"Another interpretation of the X used in more modern times is the interlocking of 4 legs, thus creating the shape of an X. The origins of the O as a kiss are not generally known." I see no reason to have unreferenced citations for the origin of the 'X' in this article, it seems the possible origins of the X are well known and are probably not from interlocking legs... I would like to see a citation for this if it were. 71.56.201.149 (talk) 18:14, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

There is however the usage of two brackets as "hugs" emoticon, possibly around another emoticon. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.67.64.121 (talk) 17:18, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

pronunciation
is it pronounced at all or just reads 'hugs n kisses'? my native is greek and the writing of it in english seems a bit funny to me since writing in greek 'xoxo' would be a silly word sounding 'hohoh!' —Preceding unsigned comment added by 62.1.132.11 (talk • contribs) 18:06, August 30, 2006

I think it's usually just said "Hugs and kisses", though it would probably be acceptable just to say "ecks oh, ecks oh, ecks oh". I'm pretty sure I've seen a couple of movies where they say it "Hugs and kisses", it's a shame I can't remember their titles, as they'd make good references. Anyone else know of one? --203.173.242.208 19:12, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

Disambiguation for 'XO' - Xoán
The disambiguation page for 'XO' reads as follows: "Xo is well known for being short for Xoán, which is where the expression XoXo comes from (meaning hugs and kisses) as Xoán is Galician for seducer of women." Is this valid, and should it be included here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 142.157.192.238 (talk • contribs).

 * I can find nothing to support such an assertion, so it would appear to be a joke. I have removed it from that page again and asked for a cite.  Of course, he's added the same odd statement there many times without providing a source, so I'm not really expecting anything from him/her.   Kuru  talk  02:46, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

sealed vs opened
How about this, if X is "sealed" then would O be "opened"? I wonder if there are other uses where X and O mean opposite ends. -- Emana 22:44, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

 * In response to the above, in E&M physics, diagrams with magnetic fields often need to represent motion or other fields in the two axes available on a sheet of paper, so the magnetic field itself is imagined to run perpendicular to the page. Many textbooks use a grid of O's to represent that the direction of the field points out of the page, and X's when the field lines run into the page. --24.130.50.167 (talk) 21:51, 13 June 2010 (UTC)

 * Rings a bell from my school/uni days (Scotland, 1973-82). The O has a dot at the centre, representing an arrow(head) pointing straight at you. The X is an arrow going away from you - with 4 feathers as 'flights'. I would assume it's unrelated, unless you fancifully imagine Cupid, or cherubs exchanging arrows back and forth between sender and recipient !--195.137.93.171 (talk) 08:32, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

Kisses X versus O
If it is true that the second of these two explanations... It is debatable which letter represents which act. Some interpret X as the crossed arms of a hug and O as the puckered lips of a kiss. However, the interpretation assumed in the following, in which X represents the four lips of a kiss and O the four arms of a hug, is more common. is more common, than I think it should be the first one listed. Followed by the less accepted variation. I say this only because this came up today, and as I read the article you think the conclusion has been reached (X - hug, O - kiss) in the first sentence. I almost didn't read on. Considering I see no sources anywhere, though, I'm not going to actually edit the article. Shy 02:54, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

 * "One interpretation assumes that X represents the four arms of a hug and O the four lips of a kiss. For example, the Oxford English Dictionary states that X is "used to represent a kiss, esp. in the subscription to a letter."[5] Another interpretation assumes X as the crossed arms of a hug and O as the puckered lips of a kiss,[citation needed] as the order is normally spoken "Hugs and Kisses" which would correspond to the order that the x's and o's are written."
 * This argument begins with a possible explanation, then refers to a source of the opposite explanation, then reverts abck to the original explanation without citing it at all.71.56.201.149 (talk) 17:58, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

I have always thought that X's are hugs and O's are kisses (not the other way around). For years I've seen platonic friends (including brothers) sign emails to each other with "XX", and lovers sign "XOXO," until they break up when it reverts back to "XX". In general the OED is definitive, and it clearly says "X" is kiss. But I'm not so sure, in this case. Note that the OED does not include "hug" as a definition for "O"! So it's not quite as clear as it seems. My guess is that "XOXO" for hugs AND kisses is an Americanization, with much increase of use in the Internet age. This may have changed the original usage, and not yet been reflected in the OED (as with much American slang and idiom -- e.g., 'ho.). For those without access, here's the full OED entry on "X" as kiss: >>>
 * 6. Used to represent a kiss, esp. in the subscription to a letter.
 * Dates: 1763, 1894, 1951, 1953, 1982
 * 1763 G. WHITE Lett. (1901) I. vii. 132, I am with many a xxxxxxx and many a Pater noster and Ave Maria, Gil. White. 1894 W. S. CHURCHILL Let. 14 Mar. in R. S. Churchill Winston S. Churchill I. Compan. I. (1967) vii. 456 Please excuse bad writing as I am in an awful hurry. (Many kisses.) xxx WSC. 1951 S. PLATH Let. 7 July (1975) I. 72 Some gal by the name of Sylvia Plath sure has something{em}but who is she anyhow?..x x Sivvy. 1953 DYLAN THOMAS Under Milk Wood (1954) 41 Yours for ever. Then twenty-one X's. 1982 C. FREMLIN Parasite Person vi. 40 A row of ‘X's’, hurried kisses, all he had time to scribble.

<<<Again, the OED has no related definition for "O", or "XO," or "XOXO". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.159.236.200 (talk • contribs) 01:22, March 2, 2007

The other arguments offered as to why "X" stands for kiss seem weak to me. (No offense meant, just my reaction.) E.g., pronunciation?? You've gotta be kidding. :-) In fact, "X" sounds more like "eggs" which is more like "hugs" (esp. w/ non-aspirated "h"). There is a children's riddle, "FUNEX?  S,IFX.  FUNEM?  S,IFM.  OK,LFMNX." -- which stands for: "'ave you any eggs?  Yes, I have eggs.  'Ave you any ham?  Yes, I have ham.  OK, I'll have ham and eggs."  By contrast, when you say "O" what do your lips do?  They form a kiss!  To suggest that "O sounds like hold, as in I hold you" -- vs. "I hug you" strikes me as a really thin argument.  In fact, someone should cut that paragraph (or add from this one).  Until someone provides more definitive origins on X's and O's, or an authentic poll on usage, I suggest this article conclude that the symbolism is used differently by different people, and not take one side or the other.  Signing with an "X" for the illiterate seems to have no connection to hugs or kisses.  What is the documentation/citation/reference for "kissing the X at the end of a letter as a seal of honesty"??? I've never heard of that. 216.159.236.200 07:33, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Because you do have a reference I am am very supportive of the article simply discussing the orgination of the X and that of the O is unknown. This may invite someone that has sources to provide insight on this —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.201.149 (talk) 17:51, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

In American idiom, often x = hugs, o = kisses: Agreed with User:216.159.236.200 (above) that the usage has evolved, from the early origins described above: 1) In the American idiom, "xx" is now used platonically, whereas "xoxo" is for lovers. 2) Most Americans do not give greeting/parting kisses platonically (unlike in Europe, MENA, Latin America). And, 3) "xo" is pronounced in sequence "hugs and [then] kisses", not "kisses and hugs". There is a prima faciae argument that at least in the American idiom (often though not always), the "x" now stands for hugs and the "o" for (romantic) kisses. ("o", like the round lips of the mouth, made when '| putting your lips together and blow -ing a kiss'). Benefac (talk) 06:09, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

An example from 1905: x = "kiss": From a recent edit, I was trying to figure out where to link "xxxx" (this page will do) -- in regard to a tragic circumstance where a body washed ashore (from a shipwreck) and the following note was recovered:

"Dear Father: Good-bye. I have a bank book in the Cleveland Society of Savings. Good-bye mother, dear sister and brother. xxxx A kiss for all" -- Obviously, in this example, "x" = "kiss" (do the math)

Re: The SS Kaliyuga was a steamship that sank with the loss of 16 lives on Lake Huron on the night of October 19/20, 1905.

 * The article should state that the X is widely axcepted as the kiss (from written literature) but the origins of the O are not known. Then there should be another paragraph discussing other possible explanations of both and where they may have come from. This discussion should not be in the second paragraph. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.201.149 (talk) 18:14, 11 December 2008 (UTC)

 * With no reliable reasons given for the "O equals hug" usage, I'd say it's probably an analogy with other uses of X and O together in games (tic-tac-toe, football play diagrams). O stands for hugs because people think of hugs and kisses as going together--the same way that the letters do.  --Ingeborg S. Nordén (talk)

How do you know that it is more common one way or the other? Are there published polls or something? It seems silly, but I had never heard it the 'more common way' until now when my girlfriend and I were argueing about it, but my she has only heard it the more 'common way.' So I would like to see some sort of source or something to why its more common one way or the other. (Because I'm a guy and I don't like to be proven wrong :-P) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.233.133.161 (talk • contribs) 21:53, May 31, 2006

 * I've taken a poll, and discovered that more people believe x = kiss and o = hug. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.178.164.245 (talk • contribs) 9:47,  19 Decembre 2007

 * Although we appreciate your endeavors, sadly, Wikipeida is not the place for original research. <3 :-* 71.184.152.225 (talk) 04:33, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

Explanations of X
i remember in spanish class when i was younger our teacher said that X came to represent a kiss because of the way that letter's name is pronounced in spanish, sounding like "a kiss"... i always saw the x as the kiss and the o as the hug anyway. 89.138.165.53 22:19, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

The spanish equivalent of 'a kiss' is 'un beso', I would find it a stretch if this was the origination of the term. Sounds much more like a coincidence —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.56.201.149 (talk) 17:47, 11 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Maybe you misunderstand - the pronunciation of 'X' in Spanish makes a sound like the sound a kiss makes - not the Spanish word that means 'kiss' - see onomatopoeia ?--195.137.93.171 (talk) 08:39, 17 January 2011 (UTC)

May I suggest the following ? the Greek letter X (khi) is pronounced chi as in kinetics Some distinguished British gentleman studying Greek language realised that XX sounds like kiss (1 khi, 2 khis=1 kiss) Therefore XXX can be interpreted as kisses. Et voilà

Alt Explanations of X O
It was probably chosen for the same reason that we chose to use Xs and Os for Tic-Tac-Toe and also why teachers mark tests with Xs and Os... although many American teachers like to use the check mark. -- Emana 22:44, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

very good reference for further page editing
can be found here http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=450133 --85.156.58.86 (talk) 23:43, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Yes, this is a very good resource:
 * Subject: Re: Hugs & Kisses and X's & O's
 * Answered By: pinkfreud-ga on 01 Jan 2005 14:16 PST
 * "I've gathered some material for you on the subject of how X's and O's came to represent kisses and hugs. Traditionally, the X stands for a kiss and the O for a hug..." -96.237.15.189 (talk) 12:03, 30 August 2011 (UTC)

Use in pop culture
Personally, and I'm sure it applies for many others, I only heard of the phrase from the TV show 'Gossip Girl', I propose a small statement be added to reflect this, perhaps also any other known references? (Steadders (talk) 01:14, 27 January 2010 (UTC))

The "Wrong-Way Tanner" episode of Full House mentions the phrase. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.140.132.124 (talk) 08:31, 4 March 2010 (UTC)

not so old, but i saw it used in the movie Deathproof 212.179.134.2 (talk) 07:38, 7 July 2010 (UTC)

Reaper S02E05 mentions this in letter at 08:35. 188.163.84.1 (talk) 22:29, 14 May 2011 (UTC)

I've seen XOXO used (and pronounced letter-by-letter) in the movie Joe Dirt; the title character sees it on a (faked) love note between his girlfriend and another man. --Ingeborg S. Nordén (talk) 04:05, 8 July 2011 (UTC)

kisses
Shows expression of love Ratie Ramz (talk) 09:54, 11 March 2016 (UTC)

Original source
All speculation "on" the internet involves "original sources", that does not make it any more credible.203.80.61.102 (talk) 20:41, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

Written vs. spoken
I don't want to make changes to the article and the Wiktionary entry without inquiring first. Shouldn't it be read as written? I mean, doesn't 'XOXO' mean "kisses and hugs" and not the other way around, since the Xs are the kisses, and the Os are the hugs? Why do these entries say "Hugs and kisses" but not write it 'OXOX'? — CJDOS, Sheridan, OR (talk) 09:50, 5 September 2021 (UTC)

Florence Montgomery's Seaforth quote
Curious by that example, I downloaded the book as a pdf, did a thorough search with a few of the words in the quote (incl. e.g. "young") and couldn't find it. Either the quote doesn't appear in the edition I have, or it is falsely credited. Please someone with access to the OED check this. 176.12.16.222 (talk) 20:35, 21 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Hugs and kisses


text:
User talk:Brutetal

Welcome
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~ ~ ~. Four tildes (~ ~ ) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! — siro χ  o  06:40, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * How to edit a page
 * Editing tutorial
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 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style

title: User talk:Brutetal


text:
Talk:Virtual file system

Sun Microsystems
Any references to Sun creating the VFS? I seem to recall it first appeared in some form in Research Unix, but I can't find the reference for that either. Lost Goblin 05:50, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Seventh Edition didn't have it; Eighth Edition might have had it, but it wasn't made widely available, and it came out in 1985, about the same time SunOS 2.0, the first SunOS with a VFS, came out. Guy Harris 09:17, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I have heard from someone that was at the Labs at the time that PJW had a VFS layer in '84. VFS was certainly part of 8th Edition. But the exact date 8th Ed was released outside the Labs scapes me at the moment.Lost Goblin 19:21, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Right, Sun invented the VFS name. See the paper given in the article by Steve Kleiman (later CTO of NetApp, alas, not the Steven Kleiman with article here). He gives a list of the team. (COI: Guy Harris and I joined the group later) The inside joke was the Virtual Node (vnode) was a pun on Vinod Khosla, a co-founder of Sun. The AT&T Unix variants called it a "File System Switch" but cannot remember if it was developed independently about the same time. W Nowicki (talk) 19:30, 9 June 2013 (UTC)

Implementation of single-file virtual filesystems
If we talk of files, which "internal structure [access] ... is often limited to programs specifically written", rather than filesystems written to support standard files API, then there should be much more examples.
 * Microsoft COM compound file, which examples are MS Office files, MS Management Console files, etc.
 * To some extent - MIME-HTML files and DBX files (e-mail storage by Outlook Express), where files can be accessed independently, but usually are not.
 * OASIS OpenDocument (technically it is ZIP with bunch of files, and Office suite works with those files)
 * Quake WAD files (at least in Alice McGee it is also a ZIP file) and other games' packages,
 * Sun Java .JAR files, that are some variation of ZIP too.

All of those formats feature having a set of data chunks with specified name, size and type. Essentially that is exactly what files are - named chunk of data. And if we remove requirement to make it accessible to any program via standard file I/O API and only request that programs, using them, do read and write data chunk by name, then all those examples above are valid and much better than the exotic WinUAE and VmWare. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.44.136.228 (talk) 08:16, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

To me, the whole section on single-file virtual filesystems should be deleted. Though these are "filesystems" and could be described "virtual" they don't mean the same things to software developers as "Virtual File System", which has a different, specific meaning, as described in the first paragraph. The technicalities of these systems are covered in detail under Loop device, and right at the end of that article there are a few details of implementations which are probably in enough detail. The above comments are not virtual file systems even by this nonspecific definition, as they are not designed to provide random access nor access for arbitrary software. They are just archives or structured databases. DanPope (talk) 12:31, 11 August 2008 (UTC)

Linux VFS limits file name length to 255 bytes?
Is this true that Linux VFS limits file name length to 255 bytes as stated in ReiserFS article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.97.14.22 (talk) 12:39, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Virtual file system