text:
Talk:Timo Glock

Birth Date
I have Timo Glock as born on March 10th. Obviously the person who last updated the page didn't notice the birth date was in non-American fashion: day-month-year

Diego440 09:57, 16 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Timo Glocks F1 Racing Records
03ogmsmith 19:27, 3 December 2007 (UTC) Hey Ive just started filling in Timos F1 Records for 2008 Season (Chassis, Entrant, Engine, Races) - I know its basic but i only joined Wikipedia last night let me know what you think - I plan to update his records throughout the season. Tell me what you think

Brazil 2008
Did he break or run out of fuel? It looked like, to me. (Yes, I know, not a forum...)  TREKphiler   hit me ♠  08:39, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * From what I've read, tyres. Apterygial (talk) 11:26, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I ask because what I read elsewhere wasn't clear & couldn't say for sure from the page, either.  TREKphiler   hit me ♠
 * It was purely tyres, as Jarno Trulli did the same laptime (1:44) as Glock on the last lap and he was still on slick tyres also. El Paulio (talk) 13:11, 3 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Not disputing the time, just the way he seemed to slow abruptly. And with that, does anybody object to deleting this whole section, so as to not encourage OT discussion?  TREKphiler   hit me ♠  08:22, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Renamed it. It's not really OT, it concerns Glock and contains no opinions, just facts ;). Probably in the future you should name sections with more talk page friendly names (unless this is a clever example of IAR). Apterygial (talk) 09:02, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

And I just read your comment. Glock on the last lap lost 4.8 seconds in the first sector on Hamilton, 9.5 in the second, and 5.3 in the third. He didn't slow suddenly, it was across the whole lap, particuarly in the middle sector. I.E., mechanical, not driver related. Apterygial (talk) 09:08, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

 * No, not IAR (but thanks for thinking it was ;D), more being too cute for my own good. And I was thinking of Hamilton's pass in particular, where on the TV, Timo seemed to be very slow; loss of grip due to slicks, I guess, now, but at the time, it looked like a breakage.  TREKphiler   hit me ♠  09:31, 4 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Taking at look at the lap times Timo drove laps 3-5 seconds faster than Trulli and surprisingly suddenly drops his lap times to the same point? At the point he let Hamilton past him, he was far away from a decent driving line, I'd say he didn't either care or wanted Hamilton to win. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.245.231.167 (talk) 00:23, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * You'd be surprised what a car with old, worn-down dry tyres will do on a track as wet as that. Conspiracy theorists such as you will always be suspicious of stuff like this, but trust me when I say there is nothing here beyond tyres in the wet. Apterygial talkstalkinsane idea 00:29, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

 * Thee shall talk English poor, Yoda approve not? Basically you're claiming that Glock was the worst driver in the world in the last lap. Have a nice day. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.245.231.167 (talk) 00:35, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * There's nothing wrong with his English, but there's a lot wrong with your reasoning. If you don't understand what happened, then don't edit the article. Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:50, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * I gave you enough information to figure it out yourself, but it seems your brain wasn't capable enough to do it. If you scale the lap times, you can notice that Glock's time compared to his team mate's time had gone 5 seconds worse even when you would exclude the rain. Your reasoning is "I'm right, you're wrong, I don't have the proof but I like cake and the cake is a lie blabla" so how about you read some more articles and then come back mmkey? thank you, have a nice one. ta ta! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.245.231.167 (talk) 00:54, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

It seems that you're in no position to criticise anyone's English - yours is atrocious. If I "scale the lap times"? What's that supposed to mean exactly? I'm not even going to ask where cake comes in. If you can come up with a half-coherent argument, or indeed the proof you're so keen on bleating about, please post it - you can see we all need educating by an expert analytical brain such as yours. Bretonbanquet (talk) 01:06, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Incidentally, our point of view is not biased, your accusation is a very serious one. If Glock comes out and says "yes, I did it on purpose" then we will change it. Otherwise, the page remains as is. Apterygial talkstalkinsane idea 01:18, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * Personally I'd like to see some video of his pass to see if Lewis was let thru. The angle on ITV made it look like Timo'd broken; I wonder if a shot from Lewis or Vettel might not show Lewis just got much better traction on inters.  TREKphiler   hit me ♠  09:32, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a video available on Formula1.com that offers slightly better view. LeaveSleaves talk 09:41, 9 November 2008 (UTC)
 * A few random thoughts: Trulli and Glock did almost exactly the same lap time on the last lap; Glock may have been lapping faster than Trulli before the last lap, but surely the point is that the conditions changed (becoming wetter) on the last lap, so comparing previous lap times isn't particularly relevant. According to Martin Brundle's commentary, the dry tyres drop out of their temperature zone quite quickly in the wet because they're not being worked hard enough. The tyre pressures drop as a consequence of the temperature change, the available grip falls drastically and can't be recovered because the car can't be driven fast enough to get heat back into the tyres. The lower pressure also drops the ride height - and a large proportion of an F1 car's suspension movement comes from the tyres, not the suspension itself. Regarding Glock's sudden slowing, he certainly lost most of the time in the middle, not the last, sector. He was off line and did slow dramatically in the last corner, but isn't that exactly what you would expect from someone who'd slid wide on completely unsuitable tyres? Remember that at speed an F1 car slows at about 1g if you just lift off the throttle, due to aerodynamic drag. Also remember the drastic changes of position on the last lap of the Belgian GP, where some drivers were on drys and others on intermediates.
 * Anyway, as noted above, without cited comment from someone who knows what they're talking about implying that Glock was somehow to blame, nothing should go in the article.4u1e (talk) 10:41, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

 * 4u1e, you're reasoning's solid, & I have no argument. I'd like to settle the issue in my mind, is all. I'm willing to believe it was loss of traction, but I'd like a better view. (Sorry to say, the F1 site has about the most useless highlight reel I've ever seen...)  TREKphiler   hit me ♠  22:49, 9 November 2008 (UTC)

Dry weather tyres and slicks
There is a difference between dry weather tyres and slicks, yes. For the last few seasons there have strictly been no slicks as all tyres have been grooved. But, and here's the nub, during the period when tyres have been all grooved, the grooved tyres that are used in the dry have been referred to as slicks quite widely. This is done to avoid the confusing labels that would otherwise be needed. So you have two kinds of wet tyres, full and intermediate, and slicks which are grooved but do the job slicks used to do. And will again from next year. Anyone not clear see me afterward (LOL) Britmax (talk) 11:15, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * But as this is an encyclopedia, we cannot refer to be tyres which are not slicks as 'slicks'. What they are called colloquially is irrelevent, and in DH's edit you reverted the clarification isn't even needed. Finally, it will just serve to confuse the issue when slicks are reintroduced. I'm going to revert your edit pending DH's response. Apterygial talkstalkinsane idea 11:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)
 * In addition to the reasons expressed above by Apterygial, I also felt that the phrase "(so-called "slicks")" just wasn't necessary - the statement that "Glock was sixth with a few laps to go and opted to remain on the track with dry-weather tyres while the most of the other drivers opted for wet tyres due to rain falling during the final laps of the race." says everything that needs to be said. But I'm not especially passionate about it - if you want to put it back in, I won't remove it again. DH85868993 (talk) 13:40, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Fair enough, it's not needed. Britmax (talk) 15:16, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Is still Timo Glock part of toyota?
Guys, Is Timo Glock still part of the Toyota Team? He is currently not driving, so shall we change his Current team to Teams?

And the Car# to? Here are the Samples

The Same one is also for Felipe Massa, as he is not driving while he is still not as his Current Team is Ferrari. And, please change the latest GP  to 2009 Japanese GP. ‡- No Picture added to save space. Please Reply, KembanganGreen (talk)

 * AFAIK, neither Timo nor Felipe has been released, so they're still "current", even if not currently active. I can't say I know of WP policy on it, but until they're cut, I'd leave it be.  TREKphiler   hit me ♠  10:06, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

 * I'd also say leave them as is. Also, please clarify your request to "change the latest GP to 2009 Japanese GP" - do you mean change it 2009 Japanese GP instead of 2009 Japanese Grand Prix? If so, why? DH85868993 (talk) 11:12, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Change from the template so it doesn't update for Brazil, I should think. I've done that, anyway. --Ian Dalziel (talk) 11:51, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Of course. Silly me. DH85868993 (talk) 11:55, 14 October 2009 (UTC)

Calling Captain Renault
"following Renault's decison to announce whether it will take part in Formula 1 for 2010 " To which I say, "Huh?" Does this mean Renault had or hadn't decided? TREKphiler  hit me ♠  20:28, 17 November 2009 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Timo Glock


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Talk:José Froilán González

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 22:54, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

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title: Talk:José Froilán González


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Talk:Dan Gurney

Anglo-American versus All-American
There have been some edits going back and forth about Gurney's Formula One team in the 1960s. According to this source, Anglo-American Racers was the European subsidiary of All-American Racers that represented the team and maintained the car during the races. All-American Racers in Santa Ana actually constructed the vehicles. Alanraywiki (talk) 21:39, 26 April 2009 (UTC)
 * True, but not quite the point. The question is, what name was officially used as that of the constructor? The official F1 site gives the cars as Eagle-Weslakes or Eagle-Climaxes, although I wouldn't necessarily rely on their word for anything. Anyone got a contemporary source for what the cars were entered as (not which company built them!). 4u1e (talk) 16:17, 19 May 2009 (UTC)

Anybody think to call and ask Dan?

So how tall is Dan Gurney?
The article says he is 6'4", however, MotorSport magazine says he is 6'1" (Feb 2000, p31). That's a pretty big difference. Flanker235 (talk) 11:26, 11 January 2014 (UTC)

T1G designation
This is referenced in the the caption to the USAC version of the Eagle Formula 1 car. According to the Eagle Mk1 page, this designation, at least as far as the F1 car was concerned, was incorrect. As far as Gurney was concerned the car was only ever known as the Eagle Mk1. Perhaps someone could consider changing the caption to reflect this. Flanker235 (talk) 11:34, 15 January 2014 (UTC)

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Polyarchy

In political science, the term polyarchy (poly "many", arkhe "rule") was used by Robert A. Dahl to describe a form of government in which power is invested in multiple people. It takes the form of neither a dictatorship nor a democracy. This form of government was first implemented in the United States and France and gradually adopted by other countries. Polyarchy is different from democracy, according to Dahl, because the fundamental democratic principle is "the continuing responsiveness of the government to the preferences of its citizens, considered as political equals" with unimpaired opportunities. A polyarchy is a form of government that has certain procedures that are necessary conditions for following the democratic principle.

In semblance, the word "polycracy" describes the same form of government, although from a slightly different premise: a polycracy is a society ruled by more than one person, as opposed to a monocracy. The word derives from Greek poly ("many") and kratos ("rule" or "strength").

Definitions
Dahl's original theory of polyarchal democracy is in his 1956 book A Preface to Democratic Theory. His theory evolved over the decades, and the description in later writings is somewhat different.

Dahl argues that "democracy" is an ideal type that no country has ever achieved. For Dahl, democracy is a system that is "completely responsive to all its citizens", and the closest to the democratic ideal any country has come is polyarchy.

A Preface to Democratic Theory
In the book, Dahl gives eight conditions that measure the extent to which majority rule is in effect in an organization. These are (p. 84):

 * Every member of the organization performs the acts we assume to constitute an expression of preference among the scheduled alternatives, e.g., voting.
 * In tabulating these expressions (votes), the weight assigned to each individual is identical.
 * The alternative with the greatest number of votes is declared the winning choice.
 * Any member who perceives a set of alternatives, at least one of which he regards as preferable to any of the alternatives presently scheduled, can insert his preferred alternative(s) among those scheduled for voting.
 * All individuals possess identical information about the alternatives.
 * Alternatives (leaders or policies) with the greatest number of votes displace any alternatives (leaders or policies) with fewer votes.
 * The orders of elected officials are executed.
 * Either all interelection decisions are subordinate or executory to those arrived at during the election stage, i.e., elections are in a sense controlling; or new decisions during the interelection period are governed by the preceding seven conditions, operating, however, under rather different institutional circumstances; or both.

Dahl hypothesized that each of these conditions can be quantified, and suggested the term "polyarchy" to describe an organization that scores high on the scales for all the eight conditions.

Dahl viewed polyarchy as a system that manages to supply a high level of inclusiveness and a high level of liberalization to its citizens.

Democracy and its critics
In his 1989 book Democracy and Its Critics, Dahl gives the following characteristics of a polyarchy (p. 233):

 * Control over governmental decisions about policy is constitutionally vested in elected officials.
 * Elected officials are chosen and peacefully removed in relatively frequent, fair and free elections in which coercion is quite limited.
 * Practically all adults have the right to vote in these elections.
 * Most adults also have the right to run for the public offices for which candidates run in these elections.
 * Citizens have an effectively enforced right to freedom of expression, particularly political expression, including criticism of the officials, the conduct of the government, the prevailing political, economic, and social system, and the dominant ideology.
 * They also have access to alternative sources of information that are not monopolized by the government or any other single group.
 * Finally, they have an effectively enforced right to form and join autonomous associations, including political associations, such as political parties and interest groups, that attempt to influence the government by competing in elections and by other peaceful means.

Characteristics
Polyarchy and its procedures may be insufficient for achieving full democracy. For example, poor people may be unable to participate in the political process. Some authors see polyarchy as a form of government that is not intended for greater social justice or cultural realization or to allow the repressed to politically participate.

According to William I. Robinson, it is a system where a small group actually rules on behalf of capital, and the majority’s decision-making is confined to choosing among a select number of elites within tightly controlled elective processes. It is a form of consensual domination made possible by the structural domination of the global capital, which allows concentration of political power. Robert A. Dahl and Charles E. Lindblom noted that political bargaining is an essential feature of polyarchy, particularly in the US.

Moreover, a perceived polyarchy—such as the United States—may bar a substantial number of its citizens from participating in its electoral process. For example, more than four million U.S. citizens residing in the U.S. territories, such as Puerto Rico, Guam and the U.S. Virgin Islands, are excluded from participating in the election of any voting member of Congress, the political body that holds ultimate sovereignty over them. Robinson argues that they are effectively taxed without lawful representation (although these territories' status is a matter of popular consensus in individual cases).

In Preface to Democratic Theory (1956), Dahl argues that an increase in citizen political involvement may not always be beneficial for polyarchy. An increase in the political participation of members of less educated classes, for example, could reduce the support for the basic norms of polyarchy, because members of those classes are more predisposed to be authoritarian-minded.

In a discussion of contemporary British foreign policy, Mark Curtis writes, "Polyarchy is generally what British leaders mean when they speak of promoting 'democracy' abroad. This is a system in which a small group actually rules and mass participation is confined to choosing leaders in elections managed by competing elites."

It is also being promoted by the transnational elites in the South as a different form from the authoritarianism and dictatorship to the North as a part of democracy promotion. Robinson argues that this is to cultivate transnational elites who will open up their countries following the transnational agenda of neoliberalism, whereby transnational capital mobility and globalized circuits of production and distribution are established. For example, it was promoted to Nicaragua, Chile, Haiti, the Philippines, South Africa and the former Soviet Bloc countries.

title: Polyarchy


text:
Talk:Nick Heidfeld

Extreme bias
This article is supposed to be neutral and not attempt to make Heidfeld sound like an f1 god and kubica the worst driver ever. My attempts to make it neutral have been reversed by some obnoxious Heidfeld lover who seems to also be a Wikipedia admin. "He's proven to be the quicker of the two drivers this season"... yeah right, Kubica's car has problems every race and all of a sudden Heidfeld's the quicker driver, it's more likely that he's just been luckier with the reliability.
 * I don't know if you're referring to me? I'm neither obnoxious nor an admin, but I have reversed your changes. You're right - the Heidfeld article is not neutral, however, adding arguments as to why Kubica is a better driver is not the best way to neutralise it. Myself and at least one other editor have argued, correctly I feel, that the article needs to focus on Heidfeld, not Kubica. I'm in the process of going through the article and removing some of the pro-Heidfeld language, which I hope will leave you a little happier at least. Cheers. (Btw I would have spotted your comments quicker at the foot of the page, which is the norm around here - hence my recent edit summary comment) 4u1e 21:43, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * OK, I've removed some WP:PEACOCK style language and cut some of the 'Nick would have done really well but.....' sections out. Better? 4u1e 22:05, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Oh, by the way, anonymous editor, I'm quite a laid back tolerant kind of editor. I don't particularly mind what you call me, if it was me you were referring to. However, bear in mind that using language like 'obnoxious Heidfeld lover' is unacceptable behaviour on Wikipedia (see WP:NPA) and if continued could lead to you being banned (Not by me, like I said I ain't an admin). 4u1e 22:05, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Hey what does a star do? Also are articles on helium considered published not self-published (as all articles are checked for accuracy by peer review and by heliums editors, and are 3rd party because it is by people who are not the source of nor directly affiliated with the source (This doesn't mean they cant have an opinion on the source, as then anything could be said to be affiliated that passed even the slightest comment on a subject) Looking foward to hearing back. — Preceding unsigned comment added by TheSpaceBetween2 (talk • contribs) 19:46, 12 September 2012 (UTC)

Redundant paragraph?
"Nick's 2005 season will be hard to beat in 2006, as he is racing for a team which are expected to be in mid-grid. However, the team are expected to improve with BMW's presence and Nick, with a three year contract, is expecting to be challenging for wins by 2008."
 * Is this section still necessary? It sounds like it was meant to be temporary for the period in between the 2005 and 2006 seasons, but it's still there!--Diniz 20:19, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

2000 European Grand Prix: DSQ or EX?
The F1 results table in this article had Heidfeld as "disqualified" from the 2000 European Grand Prix. Actually, he was "excluded" for failing the post-qualifying weighing (the car was two kilos underweight). I was not aware of this until BleuDXXXIV's edit of the Drivers' result table in 2000 Formula One season. Bleu changed Heidfeld's result from "DSQ" to "EX" there, with the reasoning that it should be "EX" because he never started the race. However, Heidfeld had qualified 13th; barring him from the race seems to be "disqualification" in the literal sense of the word. I edited this article's results table to match the edit that BleuDXXXIV made, but now I'm unsure. I'll self-revert it for now. What do you all think? --Majin Izlude 17:13, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

 * www.formula1.com has him as disqualified in the official results archive here.--Diniz 17:50, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Add given name 'Nicklaus'
In the past, I added Nick's given name, 'Nicklaus'. Someone apparently removed this for some reason. I'd like to add it again, but perhaps there's evidence against his name being Nicklaus? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.177.157.82 (talk) 15:18, 19 March 2007 (UTC).

Engine blow-out
Most pedantic, yes, but although Nico Rosberg did clip him at turn 1, Lap 1 in Bahrain in 2006, he retired with engine failure halfway through, completely unrelated to the earlier incident with Rosberg. He was running 11th at the time (,or so I recall..) ALCUS36 20:06, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Racing History
Under the Racing History Chart, Formula A is listed as a Formula (or car) series and not as a karting series. Could someone make this correction as the current state is misinformative. 216.191.219.194 22:36, 8 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Done. DH85868993 08:18, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Edit request from Bosanac01, 17 August 2010
Please change Heidfeld's racing bio, because he is no longer Mercedes GP driver, but Pirelli test driver. He was released from Mercedes GP contract.

LINK: http://www.formula1.com/news/headlines/2010/8/11141.html

Nick Lars Heidfeld (born May 10, 1977 in Mönchengladbach, West Germany) is a German racing driver, who is currently the official test driver for the Pirelli. He previously raced in Formula One from to, and was a test and reserve driver for Mercedes GP.

Thank you.

Bosanac01 (talk) 11:09, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

He was still Mercedes test driver for part of the season and that should still be recorded. Britmax (talk) 11:20, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

✅ - Article has been updated. BritishWatcher (talk) 16:04, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

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Personal life - update?
As of today, the article says that he lives, "with his fiancée Patricia". Surely they're married by now? .......  PK T (alk)  14:15, 23 October 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nick Heidfeld


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Talk:Johnny Herbert

Citation?
Authenticity check: A search reveals that the phrase "regarded by many" appears in the text. Is the phrase a symptom of a dubious statement? Could a source be quoted instead? Perhaps the "many" could be identified? Might text be edited to more genuinely reflect specific facts? --Wetman
 * He was certainly regarded that way, as was regularly recalled on British F1 TV commentary. So, the statement isn't so dubious but it does indeed need to be backed up. --kingboyk 14:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Browser compatibility
Despite the images being aligned properly alongside their corresponding paragraphs in IE, this doesn't seem to happen in Mozilla and other Gecko browsers... Presumably because of the right-hand-side column of the infobox. Any solutions? -- Jokes Free4Me 16:32, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Johnny Herbert


text:
Talk:Phil Hill

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 02:00, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Last Race
In the info box it says Hill's last race was the 1966 Italian Grand Prix. But in fact Hill did not qualify for that race, hence shouldn't the 1964 Mexican Grand Prix be listed as his last race? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.94.159.240 (talk) 00:16, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
 * For the purposes of the infobox and some other stats, "last race" means "last event", i.e. the last Formula One event that a driver participated in. So even if he only took part in practice or qualifying, it counts as his last event. It's slightly misleading, but we use the same policy for all F1 drivers, for consistency. Cheers, Bretonbanquet (talk) 00:21, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

External links modified
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Worth mentioning?
Phil Hill never drove in any of the AAA open-wheel series? Which is probably unusual for American born driver?DoctorHver (talk) 20:46, 31 May 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Phil Hill


text:
Talk:Mika Häkkinen

Untitled
Pronounciation?? could someone please add the pronounciation of Häkkinen.. --Rev.bayes 17:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
 * I am quite sure it's IPA: ['hækːinen], but please do correct me if I'm wrong. --Jarkko Piiroinen 19:43, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Nicknames
Does someone still know whether "Iceman" was one of Häkkinen's common nicknames or not? I think so, but some people disagree, while this nickname had been removed from this article, but now another user has put this name back into Häkkinen's statistics. This seemed a good subject for discussion. Could someone help us? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.136.176.254 (talk) 20:28, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

His nick name was or is "FLYING FINN" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.76.147.174 (talk) 08:55, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
 * That's Kimi Räikkönen's nickname. — Preceding unsigned comment added by HannuMakinen (talk • contribs) 15:41, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 * First it was Häkkinen's nickname but then Kimi took it. 84.251.152.157 09:34, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I remember Peter Collins, of Lotus, referring to Hakkinen as an iceman, due to his confidence and calm in his early days. Tom Prankerd 19:03, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
 * Ron Dennis once referred to him as an iceman too, I think he was talking about his Japanese performance in '98. Ian X490 06:58, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Adding Results
I am in the process of adding his results table - aprithvi — Preceding unsigned comment added by Aprithvi (talk • contribs) 07:04, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

His nick name was "FLYING FINN" — Preceding unsigned comment added by 219.76.147.174 (talk) 08:54, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

If you go back to Hakkinen's racing days, Derek Daily often called him the iceman, this came about midway through the 1998 F1 season when so often Mika would be out front after one of his signiture good start, often times Schumacher would not be able to make up any ground when Mika had the open road unless a car failure, during many U.S televise races, the term iceman was used very often during Mika's career peak and I do have VHS tape of these races to back this up. So he was often called the Iceman Long before Kimi was ever in F1. The nicknam carried over to Kimi when he entered McLaren. Mika's nicknam as the ice man Comes from his days driving on ice back back home, he as often mentioned that this is why his car control is so good. Keke Rosberg was also called the Fying Finn as well as several Downhill Skiers from Finland during olympic broadcast here in the US. Dale B. S. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.1.68.146 (talk) 01:20, 19 January 2007 (UTC)

Williams
I half-remember something in 1993 - didn't Mika originally sign for the second Williams for '93, but was switched across to McLaren as part of some arcane deal involving McLaren not objecting to Williams' entry irregularities for that year?

Tom Prankerd 19:01, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

As a Long Time Mika Hakkinen and Senna fan, I can say that Mika did not sign in any shape or form a formal contract for the second seat at Williams for 1993. Alain Prost sign to be a Williams driver, Ricardo Patresse was out, and soon signed with Benneton, but subsequently, ole Nig wanted nothing to do with Prost and Ricardo could have actually kept his spot. The corntrovesy your referring to is that of David Couldtard in 1994. During the 1994 Spa Race was when this came up, McLaren tried to find a loophole in the contract he had with Williams and it was not until 1996 that McLaren was able to get him. Dale B S. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.1.28.154 (talk) 02:46, 20 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I remember reading of something similar to what Tom recalls. I believe Williams planned to sign Mika as their second driver, but had forgotten to enter the championship until the last minute. I believe Frank needed approval from every team boss, and Ron would not grant it, due to their claim on Hakkinen, so they went for Patrick Head's preferred choice of Damon Hill (Murray Walker commented at least once that Frank had 'let his Head rule his heart with this choice) — Preceding unsigned comment added by MartinUK (talk • contribs) 00:20, 12 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I have found a source(!): http://ftp.funet.fi/pub/sports/racing/Mika.Hakkinen.story
 * This was a translated story from Finnish from December 1993. Origin of article not clear, however it details that Hakkinen was, indeed, set for Williams before being bounced out. His manager Keke then scrambled to get Mika to McLaren. -- Guroadrunner (talk) 05:54, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

 * "In 1993, Häkkinen joined McLaren as test driver with a view to be promoted into the race team later on." is inaccurate either way, mind - McLaren wanted him as 'insurance' so that if Senna didn't sign (he was on a race-by-race deal until as late as the French Grand Prix) they had a known quantity to pair up with Andretti; he was (IIRC) officially described as 'reserve driver' and there was some mild controversy due to a young, bright driver being used as a political gambit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.79.97.64 (talk) 15:01, 3 March 2013 (UTC)

Divorce
http://www.hs.fi/english/article/German+online+magazine+claims+Mika+and+Erja+H%C3%A4kkinen+to+divorce/1135233877966 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.172.235.34 (talk) 19:06, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

I edited the "married" part to "divorced" and it was edited back. Check your facts Mr. Editors, Mika IS divorced! It was announced by his management last week. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.92.33.155 (talk) 08:32, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Car Numbers
Is there an info on his car numbers i.e. 1999 was car no. 1, 2000 car no. 1 - Culnacreann (talk) 19:10, 11 June 2008 (UTC)
 * The standard F1 driver results table format that we use doesn't include car numbers (partly because, before 1973, the numbers changed from race to race). DH85868993 (talk) 21:15, 11 June 2008 (UTC)

Magic?
It says "Races: 165 (161 starts)", how can he have participated in more races than i started in? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.183.4.187 (talk) 15:05, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
 * In the F1 results box, you'll see 2 DNQ's and 2 DNS's. He participated in/entered/registered for those "race meetings" but didn't make it to the races themselves. ColinClark (talk) 21:00, 15 March 2012 (UTC)

Photo
I think this photo looks really bad. Here is another one: http://image.newsru.com/pict/id/large/747948_20050418132307.gif. But I can't download it. Can you help? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.127.105.118 (talk) 22:00, 5 January 2014 (UTC)
 * You can't just upload any image to Wikipedia; it has to be freely licensed. --hydrox (talk) 22:09, 5 January 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141009182802/http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1993/ to http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1993/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150224202554/http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1994/ to http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1994/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071024121243/http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1995/40.html to http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1995/40.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141120050510/http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1995/ to http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1995/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150217072155/http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1996/ to http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1996/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141120050521/http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1997/ to http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1997/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141120050531/http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1999/ to http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/1999/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20141006133743/http://www.dtm.com/en/News/Mika-Haekkinen-to-race-in-the-2005-DTM.html to http://www.dtm.com/en/News/Mika-Haekkinen-to-race-in-the-2005-DTM.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.lemans.org/wpphpFichiers/1/1/ressources/Pdf/2011/intercontinental-le-mans-cup/epreuves/6h_zhuhai/classification/6h_05_Classification_Race.pdf

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External links modified
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Theodore Racing
Why in the early career section, Häkkinen's career in Theodore Racing was missing, due to language barrier to cite Chinese source? Matthew_hk  t  c  12:48, 5 February 2018 (UTC)

"Mika Haekkinen" listed at Redirects for discussion
The redirect [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Mika_Haekkinen&redirect=no Mika Haekkinen] has been listed at redirects for discussion to determine whether its use and function meets the redirect guidelines. Readers of this page are welcome to comment on this redirect at  until a consensus is reached. TartarTorte 20:29, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mika Häkkinen


text:
Talk:Ryti–Ribbentrop Agreement

Untitled
Wow! Thanks, Johan Magnus! 8-} --Whiskey 22:37, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

This is a joint venture. :-) Now I've laid a foundation, and others can carry on with the improvements and corrections. --Johan Magnus 06:27, 19 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Deleted some uncorrect statements in the "controversy" section, among other things it was stated that "a Finnish peculiarity was - and still is - that Social Democratic and Socialist groups dominated the working-class political movements, and Communists always were a fringe phenomenon" This is factually wrong, and the opposite can in some ways be said to be true, it is rather a Finnish pecularity that in the post-war period the Finnish communist party at times polled more votes than the social democratic party, in 1958 even becoming the largest party in Finland with 23%.Finnish parliamentary election, 1958. The strength of the communists during the Cold War in Finland is unique compared with the other Nordic countries where the communist parties indeed were fringe phenomenons in the labour movement, in other Western European democracies it can only be matched by the succeses of the Italian and French communist parties.

These gross inaccuracies lead me to suspect that the whole of the controversy section is a result of original research, hope someone with more knowledge than me about the actual Ryti-Ribbentrop agreement can look into that. Kjetor 10:40, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

comments
this looks like original research to me, perhaps the result of a lecture by the man referred to as a reference....? No inline citations, no documentation (other than the vague reference to the doctoral dissertation), no wiki structure, poor links.... This has a B class from Finland group, but I'm going to flag it for some attention. The whole thing looks dubious to me. Auntieruth55 (talk) 17:24, 14 August 2009 (UTC)

B class review
I confirm that this article is B class. In my opinion, this article would be improved if there were an "infobox treaty" at the beginning. Please note that "infobox agreement" redirects to "infobox treaty". Djmaschek (talk) 02:25, 3 September 2022 (UTC)

Request for change
"as Finland had already contacted the Soviet Union in secret, seeking to exit the war" -> I changed to "as Finland had already contacted the Soviet Union seeking to exit the war in secret."

A comma is not necessary, so my wording is better. The two phrases are equivalent. User Jon698 reverted my edit with a rationale, "the wording implies that the Soviet Union would enter the war secretly rather than secretly meeting with the Soviets."

How does my wording imply that the Soviet Union would enter the war secretly? I just don't see it. Let's break down my phrase. Finland was seeking to exit the war in secret, and they had contacted the Soviet Union to achieve that. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:D5F7:A00B:1D83:C3FF (talk) 20:54, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * They didn't exit the war in secret, though; they contacted the USSR in secret, to exit the war. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 21:28, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It is implied in the original sentence that Finland wanted to exit the war in secret (without letting the Nazi know), so they met the Soviet Union secretly. Why did they have to meet the Soviet Union in secret? Because they wanted to exit the war in secret. This is a game of semantics. Either way is correct. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:D5F7:A00B:1D83:C3FF (talk) 22:35, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I agree: the proposed version could be understood to mean that the goal was to exit the war in secret, while the current phrasing is unambiguous that "secret" modifies "contacted the Soviet Union" and not "exit the war". Ljleppan (talk) 21:40, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * "The goal was to exit the war in secret" -> that was exactly Finland's goal. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:D5F7:A00B:1D83:C3FF (talk) 22:49, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The actual armistice was in no way secret, though, only the negotiations leading up to it. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 22:55, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The armistice is irrelevant to the matter being discussed here. Fact: Finland wanted to exit the war in secret (without alerting the Nazi), so of course, meeting with the Soviet Union had to be in secret as well. Maybe, they were afraid that the Nazi could have turned on them if they knew. They wanted to exit the war "before" the Nazi could have turned on them. When the armistice was announced, they were prepared to expel the Nazi. You can't prove my sentence is incorrect. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:D5F7:A00B:1D83:C3FF (talk) 23:11, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * In other words, Finland wanted to exit the war in secret. However, when an agreement was reached, the armistice of course would have been public. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:D5F7:A00B:1D83:C3FF (talk) 23:21, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * We're playing a semantics game here. They're pretty much equivalent as far as a reader is concerned. Here are the 2 facts: Finland met the Soviet Union in secret and wanted to exit the war. "Finland wanted to exit the war in secret, so they had met the Soviet Union secretly" + "Finland wanted to exit the war, so they had met the Soviet Union secretly" -> these two sentences are saying the same things. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:D5F7:A00B:1D83:C3FF (talk) 22:26, 5 November 2022 (UTC)
 * "Finland wanted to exit the war in secret, so they had met the Soviet Union secretly" + "Finland wanted to exit the war, so they had met the Soviet Union secretly" -> these two sentences are saying the same things. I don't think they are. "Exit the war in secret" doesn't make sense to me, conjuring up images of pretending to continue fighting while in reality already being at peace with the "opponent". At the best, it's confusing and ambiguous wording, while the current wording is extremely clear at what was secret. Ljleppan (talk) 08:08, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Your reasoning doesn't make sense to me. It's impossible to be at peace and pretending to fight at the same time. There is no reason for the deception. Peace and fighting are contradicting each other. You're playing a semantics game. "Exit the war in secret" simply just means that they wanted to negotiate secretly, which Finland did. If Finland didn't want to exit the war in secret, they could have made an announcement regarding peace deals with the Soviet Union. 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:2D5E:4EB:3BAB:AC96 (talk) 17:00, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * user:PizzaKing13 We're looking for a third opinion. What do you think? Thanks! 2600:6C44:117F:95BE:2D5E:4EB:3BAB:AC96 (talk) 17:21, 6 November 2022 (UTC)
 * It's fine/correct how it is: "[...] as Finland had already contacted the Soviet Union in secret, seeking to exit the war." They wanted to contact the Soviets in secret so the Germans wouldn't see what's happening and invade Finland. See the 4th paragraph of the Negotiations section of the article: "Concurrently with these discussions [the ones with Germany], the Finnish leadership was privately discussing a need to exit the war [among themselves, not with the Soviet Union], and decided to send out further peace feelers in secret. [to the Soviet Union]" (Jokisipilä 2004, pp. 290–292.). Then later, when the secret negotiations with the Soviets came to an agreement, they left the war, and it was most definitely not secret since Finland went to war with Germany. PizzaKing13  ¡Hablame! 20:40, 6 November 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ryti–Ribbentrop Agreement