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Talk:List of Victoria Cross recipients by nationality

Discussion of changes
Right, well since it was said in VfD that changes should be discussed here - I feel the non British Empire/Commonwealth country lists are just too short. My opinion is that it would be better off having one list by nationality of all the non-commonwealth countries. Average Earthman 16:33, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I think it's better to just have one single list, organised by nationality - British first, then all others alphabetically. Chris 22:03, 16 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * That makes sense to me too. This project seems to have lapsed for the last couple of months, but there were several keen people working on it back in July. They may be back, but we can't rely on when. The site this material came from is closing owing to time overcommitment of the participants!

 * In view of that, if we are to restructure their index system, we need to be prepared to do the work of consistently changing it, rather than just deleting parts of the existing structure, see Votes for deletion/List of Swedish Victoria Cross recipients. Assuming that there is that commitment, I'd support the restructure. Andrewa 00:27, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I'd be happy to spare some time to rearrange the list onto one page (or at least nations with few awards). Chris 04:14, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Confirming nationality by including birth dates & country place names
I agree with the above statements it would be better to include all countries who have a very small number of VC recipients in one separate list.

Would others interested in constructing Lists of VC recipients by nationality not agree that for confirmation & biographical reasons it is necessary that birth, dates and place names should be included to confirm nationality.

To define whether a VC is to be listed under Scottish, Welsh, English or Irish recipients lists their birth dates & place names must be inclosed to define their countries of origin. Remembering all UK VCs were classed as British citizens (Including those born in Ireland before 1949 (Nationality Act)

Likewise if a VC has been born in one country and then naturalised in another commonwealth country like many Australian and Canadian VCs were, then they can be included on two lists.

Information regards births dates and place names can be found in all three editions of 'The Register of the Victoria Cross' 1981, 1988 & 1997.

I have inserted birth dates, place names and death records to all 168 Irish Recipients of the Victoria Cross.

George Fleming

Nationality confusion
At least for New Zealand there are some "errors". The commonly cited number of New Zealanders awarded Victoria Crosses is 22 -- which does not include Henry Cecil Dudgeon D'arcy and Bernard Freyberg who are listed in the New Zealand section. But, Freyberg was commissioned in the NZ Army and was later Governor-General of NZ, and D'arcy was born in New Zealand. So it gets confusing. I would have to guess that there are similar cases for the other nationalities. Any thoughts on how this should be dealt with? Evil Monkey - Hello 08:08, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Yep, I think we need to have specific criteria about what constitutes the nationality. That is why I have left the List of New Zealander Victoria Cross recipients intact for the moment. I think this list should be down to those who had nationality at the time of the award and this should be stated in the lead. Woodym555 11:21, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

And to the original "List of New Zealander Victoria Cross recipients" I had added "those buried in NZ" and "those with a family connection" eg several in the AIF plus William Barnard Rhodes-Moorehouse in WWI - how do I get those back into an accessible list? While a note could be added to the Australian and British lists, the idea was to avoid the need to trawl long lists to find any VC winners buried in NZ! Hugo999 (talk) 04:21, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The sortable nature of the table is intended to remove the issues generally associated with long lists. The New Zealand page was getting full of tangents and I could see the day where "people who had ever set foot on New Zealand" would have its own section. The page as I redirected it can be seen at this permalink. The issue is complicated as several countries claim recipients as their own. I have kept this list to born or lived/fought for. Personally I don't really see the need for a buried in list, though I am open to building it if asked. Woody (talk) 09:03, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The flags
I would support the little flags not being used. There seems to be a number of errors. In theory Charles Heaphy (1864) should have a Union Flag, since the current New Zealand flag was not adopted (at least in part) until 1869. The current flag of the British Virgin Islands was not adopted until 1960. Likewise, the flag of Jamaica wasn't adopted until 1962. To be really nit-picky, the German flags should be Image:Flag of Germany (2-3).svg, the flag of the German Confederation. All the Indian awards should be the Star of India (flag). I could be just being really anal here, because I can't be bothered fixing them :-) Evil Monkey - Hello 08:29, 3 December 2007 (UTC)
 * I have removed all the flagicons, they weren't really adding that much, and they were all inaccurate. Most of them would have needed Union Flags so it doesn't show that much. I have also centre aligned the date column. Woodym555 11:49, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Deleting Jensen as Danish
There does not seem to be a definition of nationality. Is it place of birth or citizenship at the time of the award of the VC. Or should it be the nationality of the force in which the recipient was awarded the Victoria Cross. For Jørgen Jensen was born in Denmark but he became a British subject in 1914 and was awarded the Victoria Cross as a member of the Australian forces. The reason he became a British subject in 1914 was because then there was no such thing as Australian citizenship. Indeed no Australians who were citizens when they were born have ever been awarded the Victoria Cross and only four Australian citizens have been awarded the Victoria Cross. The Australian Citizenship Act came into effect on 26 January 1949 so only the four Vietnam War recipients were Australian citizens when awarded the Victoria Cross. Since all four were born before 26 January 1949 then no Australians who were citizens when the were born have ever been awarded the Victoria Cross.

I think that nationality of the force should be the criterion which is the criterion for nationality by the Commonwealth War Graves Commission. The nationalities for Commonwealth War Dead are Australia, Canada, (Undivided) India, New Zealand, South Africa and United Kingdom. If the criterion is citizenship then there are just four Australian recipients and if it is place of birth there are 80 Australia recipients since 17 of the 91 members of the Australian forces were not born in Australia. In addition to the 74 Australian born members of the Australian forces there are six Australian born recipients of other forces. So until Beatham is listed as English, Birks as Welsh, Cooke as New Zealand etc I will delete Jensen as Danish.--Anthony Staunton (talk) 02:44, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

It should also be noted that Wing Cdr John Dering Nettleton VC is listed as Rhodesian yet he was born in Nongoma in South Africa, moving to Cape Town in 1928 where he went to Western Province Prep School until entering the SA Training Ship 'General Botha' at Simon's Town. On qualifying as a merchant navy cadet, he went to sea and served ashore locally, also joining the RNVR (SA) in Cape Town. He then went to GB to join the RAF. I can find no record of him being Rhodesian and the only apparent link was the squadron he served in which was the 'Rhodesian' squadron. (AG Soderlund) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.245.69.68 (talk) 20:10, 26 December 2009 (UTC)

Amalgamation discussion
After an IP has been reinstating the content of List of Indian Victoria Cross recipients, I may as well open up discussion again. Currently, those countries with over 75 recipients have their own lists due to their size. Below that, there is no need for a separate list, it is all included here. Whilst I accept that a separate list could become an FL, there is no need as it can be perfectly included here as it is at the moment. What do other people think? Woody (talk) 13:45, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

Incomplete tag
I have removed the incomplete tag as this list is as complete as it is going to get due to size constraints. As is stated on the list, some nationalities are summarised here and expanded on in their own lists. What is incomplete about this list as it stands? Woody (talk) 13:37, 15 November 2008 (UTC)

Missing Names
Sgt Aubrey Cousins, VC from Latchford, Ontario, Canada —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.25.180.163 (talk) 23:12, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

also Canadian Campbell Mellis Douglas

also Canadian Alexander Dunn at the Battle of Balaclava — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.52.128.230 (talk) 17:09, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

Also missing:

Lt Colonel Herbert Jones 2 PARA, UK ARMY - Falklands Ward 1982 - 27/28 May Action at Goose Green — Preceding unsigned comment added by Henryward1957 (talk • contribs) 07:11, 29 February 2012 (UTC)
 * Canadian and English recipients are linked to other pages - click on the Canadian or English Recipients links to access them Kernel Saunters (talk) 11:43, 29 February 2012 (UTC)

The names of all those who received VCs at the Battle of Rorke’s Drift should be included: Lieutenant John Rouse Merriott Chard, 5th Field Coy, Royal Engineers, Lieutenant Gonville Bromhead; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Corporal William Wilson Allen; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private Frederick Hitch; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private Alfred Henry Hook; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private Robert Jones; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private William Jones; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Private John Williams; B Coy, 2nd/24th Foot, Surgeon James Henry Reynolds; Army Medical Department, Acting Assistant Commissary James Langley Dalton; Commissariat and Transport Department. Corporal Christian Ferdinand Schiess; 2nd/3rd Natal Native Contingent — Preceding unsigned comment added by GaryGMason (talk • contribs) 13:35, 22 March 2016 (UTC)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bede_Kenny — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.68.101.68 (talk) 13:36, 3 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Likewise List of Australian Victoria Cross recipients. Hamish59 (talk) 14:00, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Missing name: Certain
Portuguese Private Aníbal Augusto Milhais, in the Battle of La Lys, April 1918, received the Victoria Cross for his acts, covering the retreat of thousands of British soldiers. PR.PT (talk) 15:29, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
 * This soldier may have received the DCM or MM but did not receive the Victoria Cross. Awards to foreign soldiers are not usually gazetted so checking the London Gazette for confirmation is not an option. However, his name does not appear in official lists of recipients produced by the War Office. I will check some references and pose the question to some experts and see if I can determine the award granted to this gallant Portuguese soldier. Anthony Staunton (talk) 11:17, 9 June 2012 (UTC)
 * In the First World War two Distinguished Conduct Medals (DCM) and 76 Military Medals (MM) were awarded to Portuguese troops. I am still checking the names. Anthony Staunton (talk) 10:46, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

Nationality follow up
What are the guidelines for Nationality? I see John Danaher is listed as South African in the list but his Wiki page lists him as Irish. Can someone put together a short guideline perhaps? Gbawden (talk) 08:37, 14 January 2013 (UTC)
 * Since nationally is not defined how can there be guidelines? For some it is place of birth, for others it is citizenship while I prefer nationality of the force. All have conceptual issues including nationality of the force. It is valid to include HEIC with the Indian Army although I separate the figures. I do not think anyone includes VCs to the British Army regiments in India between 1895 and 1902 but technically the British Army units were part of the official Indian Army during that period. Some sources list the one Scottish Horse VC of the South African War 1899-1902 as a British Army award instead of a South African award. As to citizenship no person born an Australian citizen has ever been awarded the Victoria Cross. Of the 80 Australian born recipients, 74 of the 91 recipients serving in the Australian forces, four of the five Australians serving in South Africa and British forces counted in Australia as Australian recipients and two others born in Australia who are not counted in Australia as Australian recipients, none were born before 26 January 1949 when Australian citizenship was first proclaimed. Anthony Staunton (talk) 14:48, 16 April 2013 (UTC)

Correction for confusing format proposed
This is not a list of Victoria Cross recipients by nationality. It is "A_List_of_Miscellaneous_Victoria_Cross_recipients_by_nationality_selected_according_to_whether_the _citizens_of_a_nation_have_won_less_than_75_Victoria_Crosses_mixed_with_pointers_to_other_pages_where_the_citizens_of_a_nation_have_won_more_than_75." Of course, such a title would be very confusing — but not less confusing than the manner in which the page is currently formatted.

I understand that a single list with over 1300 items might be unwieldy but making the minor exceptions the major component of a topic is very poor style. All the items on a list should possess similar semantic content. That is, a list of recipients should contain recipients and a list of pointers should contain pointers. No professional editor would let an author get away with mixing the two like this because readers find it confusing. My suggestion is that this page become a list of lists and its current list of VC recipients placed on another list with an appropriate title such as, for example, "A List of Victoria Cross Recipients Other Nationalities". With perhaps some text to describe the selection criterion and why it's necessary.75.157.135.57 (talk) 07:40, 12 May 2013 (UTC)

main article info does not need to be repeated
From the second paragraph that suggests the VC is a ‘military decoration’ to the last paragraph that states ‘Several Commonwealth countries have now created their own award systems’ the summary of the history of the VC is replete with errors. The VC is a decoration that is usually awarded to the military but has in the past been awarded to civilians. It is not several countries but all major countries of the Commonwealth which have created their own award systems. However, in the third paragraph ‘Between 1897 and 1901, several notices were issued in the London Gazette regarding soldiers who would have been awarded the VC had they survived. In a partial reversal of policy in 1902, six of the soldiers mentioned were granted the VC, but not "officially" awarded the medal.’ shows a total misunderstanding of posthumous awards. There were three notices issued in 1900 and 1901 and in an exception to policy for the South African War, the next of kin of the three received their medals in 1902. At the same time, three posthumous VCs awards were also gazetted. Since this is a list of recipients, the history and evolution of the VC does not need to be repeated and all paragraphs after the first should be deleted. --Anthony Staunton (talk) 00:08, 29 December 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 one external links on List of Victoria Cross recipients by nationality. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070927230754/http://www.royalnavalmuseum.org/Info_sheets_John_Bythesea.htm to http://www.royalnavalmuseum.org/Info_sheets_John_Bythesea.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070527201118/http://www.museumwales.ac.uk:80/walespast/article.shtml?id=26 to http://www.museumwales.ac.uk/walespast/article.shtml?id=26
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20070815093946/http://rapidttp.com:80/milhist/vol017iu.html to http://rapidttp.com/milhist/vol017iu.html

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Editor needed
(I can’t see how to do it); Link says 91, but there are 100 Australians listed (at the link); 96 + 4 newies. MBG02 (talk) 07:26, 24 August 2018 (UTC)

 * Ninety-one members of Australian forces have been awarded the VC. In addition, Australia counts five ex-members of Australian forces as Australian recipients and has done so for more than seventy years. From 5 November 1992, the British Victoria Cross and all other British medals formerly recommended by Australian governments are treated as foreign. Since 1992, four soldiers of the Australian Army have been awarded under the Australian Honours System, the highest Australian award which is named in honour of the British Victoria Cross but is a unique Australian award named the ‘Victoria Cross for Australia’. Needless to say, in the local press it simplified to 100 VCs with which I am comfortable. It is also appropriate the link page on Australian VC mentions the three categories and makes clear there are four VCFA awards, 91 Australian forces VCs and five VCs to Australians serving with South African forces, the Royal Fusiliers and the RAF. On a general note, if you want the nationality totals to match the total number of VCs awarded, 1358, then the only way is to list the nationality of the service in the case of Britain and the country in the case of the Commonwealth. But if that is adopted there are no foreign recipients except for the Unknown American warrior and Canada will have about 79 instead of 96 or the 99 recipients. Anthony Staunton (talk) 15:40, 25 August 2018 (UTC)

 * Re: five VCs to Australians serving with South African forces, the Royal Fusiliers and the RAF.
 * I can’t see who the 5 are; there are 2 SthAf, 3 RAF, and 1 Fusilier. Can you update (notate) the article List of Australian Victoria Cross recipients ? MBG02 (talk) 18:05, 25 August 2018 (UTC)
 * Added a line at the top of the list of recipients 'Includes five former members of the Australian forces: Rogers - South African Constabulary, Dartnell, Pearse and Sullivan - Royal Fusiliers and Edwards - RAF' Anthony Staunton (talk) 02:30, 26 August 2018 (UTC)


text:
1. FC Nürnberg

1. Fußball-Club Nürnberg Verein für Leibesübungen e. V., often called '''1. FC Nürnberg''' (, 1. Football Club Nuremberg), is a German sports club based in Nuremberg, Bavaria. It is best known for its men's football team, who currently compete in the 2. Bundesliga. Founded in 1900, the club initially competed in the Southern German championship, winning their first title in 1916. Their first German championship was won in 1920. Before the inauguration of the Bundesliga in 1963, 1. FCN won a further 11 regional championships, including the Oberliga Süd formed in 1945, and were German champions another seven times. The club has won the Bundesliga once and the DFB-Pokal four times.

Since 1963, the club has played their home games at the Max-Morlock-Stadion in Nuremberg. Today's club has sections for boxing, handball, hockey (inline skater hockey and ice hockey), rollerblading and ice skating, swimming, skiing, and tennis.

Nürnberg hold the joint record for promotions from the various second divisions to the Bundesliga at 8 with Arminia Bielefeld. Owing to its status as a founding member of the Bundesliga while Bielefeld was not, however, Nürnberg's consequent nine relegations from the top tier are a record by itself.

Rise of "Der Club"
1. FC Nürnberg was founded on 4 May 1900 by a group of 18 young men who had gathered at local pub Burenhütte to assemble a side committed to playing football rather than rugby, one of the other new "English" games becoming popular at the time. By 1909, the team was playing well enough to lay claim to the South German championship. After World War I, Nürnberg would gradually turn their success into the dominance of the country's football. In the period from July 1918 to February 1922, the team would go unbeaten in 104 official matches. As early as 1919, they came to be referred to simply as "Der Club" in recognition of their skill and of their style on and off the field and would go on to become one of the nation's most widely recognized and popular teams.

Nürnberg faced SpVgg Fürth in the first national championship held after the end of World War I, beating the defending champions 2–0. That would be the first of five titles Der Club would capture over the course of eight years. In each of those wins, they would shutout their opponents.

The 1922 final was contested by Nürnberg and Hamburger SV but never reached a conclusion on the pitch. The match was called on account of darkness after three hours and ten minutes of play, drawn at 2–2. The re-match also went into extra time, and in an era that did not allow for substitutions, that game was called at 1–1 when Nürnberg was reduced to just seven players and the referee ruled incorrectly the club could not continue. Considerable wrangling ensued over the decision. The German Football Association (DFB) awarded the win to Hamburger SV under the condition that they renounce the title in the name of "good sportsmanship" – which the side grudgingly did. Ultimately, the Viktoria trophy was not officially presented that year.

After the glory years
1. FCN's dominance was already beginning to fade when they captured their final trophy of the era in 1927 as the game began to evolve into a more quickly paced contest which did not suit their slower, more deliberate approach. While they continued to field strong sides, other clubs rose to the forefront of German football. In 1934, they lost in the final to Schalke 04, a club that would go on to become the strongest side in the era of football in Nazi Germany. Nürnberg won national titles just before and after World War II in 1936 and 1948 in the first post-war national final, and would also take the Tschammerpokal, the forerunner of today's DFB-Pokal, in 1935 and 1939.

Into the modern era
The post-war period began with the club being integrated into the Oberliga Süd, one of the five top divisions in West-Germany at the time. Nürnberg managed to win this league six times until 1963, winning the national championship in 1948. In 1961, 1. FCN captured their eighth national title and appeared in a losing effort in the following year's final. Some consolation was to be had in the team capturing its second DFB-Pokal in 1962. The club's strong play made it an obvious choice to be amongst the 16 teams selected to participate in the Bundesliga, Germany's new professional football league, formed in 1963. Der Club played as a mid-table side through the league's early years until putting on a dominating performance in 1968 in which it sat atop the league table from the fifth week of play on to the end of the season, en route to its first Bundesliga title. It went on to become the first club to be relegated from the Bundesliga as the reigning champions. This was a result of Max Merkel's decision to remove his championship-winning team of veterans – believing that they were too old – in favour of a dozen newcomers.

It would take the club nine years to recover and return from an exile in the second tier, first the Regionalliga Süd, then the 2. Bundesliga Süd, that included several failed efforts in the promotion rounds. 1. FCN returned to the Bundesliga for a year in 1978, but played to a 17th-place finish and were relegated again. The club immediately played its way back to the top flight, but since then its Bundesliga performances have been stumbling ones, characterized by finishes well down the league table and occasional relegation for a season or two. The side's best recent result was a fifth-place finish in 1988.

The early 1980s also saw the rise of a longstanding and intense friendship between the fans of Nürnberg and those of former archrival Schalke 04. Fans accompany each other's on their respective away games, and the two-season matches between the teams are generally a very laid-back and hospitable affair for all fans involved.

In the mid-1990s, Nürnberg had financial problems, including the conviction of their club treasurer Ingo Böbel for fraud and misallocating club finances. This led to their being penalized six points in the 1995–96 season while playing in the 2. Bundesliga. The club was relegated to the third division as a consequence. Improved management saw the club clawing back and return to the top flight eventually.

In 1999, however, 1. FCN suffered what was arguably the worst meltdown in Bundesliga history. Going into the last game of the season, the club sat in 12th place, three points and five goals ahead of Eintracht Frankfurt, which was sitting in 16th place and seemingly headed to relegation. Nürnberg was closing out the season with what looked to be an easy home game against SC Freiburg, which was also facing relegation. Frankfurt was up against 1. FC Kaiserslautern, the previous season's champions which were in a fight for a UEFA Champions League spot. Therefore, FCN had already begun soliciting season tickets for next Bundesliga season in a letter to current season ticket holders within celebrating successfully avoiding relegation.

The stage was set for an improbable outcome. Nürnberg lost 1–2, with Frank Baumann missing a chance to score in the last minute. Every other 1. FCN rival won, including Frankfurt, which routed Kaiserslautern 5–1 with three late tallies – this put the side ahead on goals scored and sent 1. FCN crashing to 16th place and into a shock relegation. 1. FCN was not relegated because they had fewer points than Frankfurt, nor because of a lower goal differential, but on the third tie-breaker – fewer goals scored.

1. FCN rebounded and played in the Bundesliga, but still found itself flirting with relegation from season to season. However, it comfortably avoided relegation in the 2005–06 season, finishing eighth in the Bundesliga. After several years of consolidation, Nürnberg seemed back as a force to reckon with in Bundesliga football. Manager Martin Bader's professional and sometimes even spectacular work until spring 2007 (the signing of former Ajax captain and Czech international Tomáš Galásek, for example, was greeted with enthusiasm), as well head coach Hans Meyer's tactically modern understanding of football, helped Nürnberg to its most successful play in almost 40 years. In May 2007, the cut for the UEFA Cup was sure and after the triumph over Eintracht Frankfurt in the DFB-Pokal, the Club was in the final of that tournament for the first time since 1982. On 26 May, the Club won this final against VfB Stuttgart in extra time 3–2, winning the DFB-Pokal 45 years after its last victory.

In the first round of 2007–08, however, the team could convince no more in Bundesliga. As the team had ended up second in their UEFA Cup group in front of later champion Zenit Saint Petersburg after defeating Rapid București in the first round, head coach Hans Meyer was allowed to restructure the team, for example by buying Czech international striker Jan Koller from Monaco. In the consequence of no improvement, Meyer was replaced by Thomas von Heesen after two legs in the second round. The latter one did not do much better, and so 1. FCN was relegated after finishing 16th after losing a 2–0 home match against Schalke 04 on the final matchday. After not meeting the expectations of dominating the 2. Bundesliga, Von Heesen resigned in August and was replaced by his assistant coach, Michael Oenning. After a slow start, Oenning was able to guide Nürnberg to a third-place finish and a playoff with 16th placed Energie Cottbus. Nürnberg won the playoff 5–0 on aggregate, rejoining the Bundesliga. The club was demoted again, however, after the 2013–14 season, finishing 17th with a final matchday loss to Schalke 04. The club finished third in the 2015–16 season and qualified for the promotion play-off to the Bundesliga, but lost on aggregate to Eintracht Frankfurt to remain in the 2. Bundesliga for 2016–17. The club went on to finish 2nd in 2017–2018 season, securing a promotion spot into the Bundesliga with an away win against SV Sandhausen. However, they finished dead last the next season and were relegated back to 2. Bundesliga.

In the 2019–20 2. Bundesliga season, they finished in 16th place, and faced a relegation playoff against 3. Liga side Ingolstadt, for which Nürnberg prevailed and saved themselves from a double relegation to the 3. Liga after winning 3–3 on aggregate score thanks to the away goals rule. The away goal which retained their second-tier status was scored in the sixth minute of injury time in the second leg, thereby keeping them up at the last moment.

Rivals
SpVgg Greuther Fürth is 1. FCN's longest standing local rival. The rivalry dates back to the early days of German football when, at times, those two clubs dominated the national championship. The clubs have played 258 matches against one another, the most in German professional football. In 1921, the Germany national team consisted only of players from Nürnberg and Fürth for a match against the Netherlands in Amsterdam. The players traveled in the same train, but with the Nürnberg players in a carriage at the front of the train and those from Fürth in a carriage at the rear, while team manager Georg B. Blaschke sat in the middle. A Fürth player scored the first goal of the match but was only congratulated by Fürth players. Allegedly, Hans Sutor, a former Fürth player, was forced to leave the team when he married a woman from Nuremberg. He was later signed by 1. FC Nürnberg and was in the team that eventually won three national championships. Both clubs played together in the Bundesliga in 2012–13.

Games against Bayern Munich are usually the biggest events of the season, as the two clubs are the most successful in Bavaria and Germany overall.

Reserve team
The ''1. FC Nürnberg II (or 1. FC Nürnberg Amateure'') qualified for the Regionalliga Süd on the strength of a third place in the Bayernliga (IV) in 2007–08. The team had been playing in the Bayernlig since 1998, finishing runners-up three times in those years. When not playing in the Bayernlig, the team used to belong to the Landesliga Bayern-Mitte. Nowadays, it plays in tier four Regionalliga Bayern.

Recent seasons
The recent season-by-season performance of the club:

 * Key

Honours
Der Club boasted the title of Deutscher Rekordmeister as holder of the most championships for over 60 years (although occasionally having to share the honour with Schalke 04) before being overtaken by Bayern Munich in 1987.

Germany honours its Bundesliga champions by allowing them to display the gold stars of the "Verdiente Meistervereine" – one star for three titles, two stars for five and three stars for ten. However, currently, only titles earned since 1963 in the Bundesliga are officially recognized. Despite winning the national title nine times, Nürnberg – the country's second-most successful side – is not entitled to sport any championship stars.

League

 * German Football Championship/Bundesliga
 * Champions: 1920, 1921, 1924, 1925, 1927, 1936, 1948, 1961, 1967–68
 * Runners-up: 1934, 1937, 1961–62
 * 2. Bundesliga/2. Bundesliga Süd
 * Champions: 1980, 1985, 2001, 2004

Cup

 * DFB-Pokal
 * Winners: 1935, 1939, 1961–62, 2006–07
 * Runners-up: 1940, 1981–82

European competitions

 * European Cup
 * Quarter-finals: 1961–62
 * European Cup Winners' Cup
 * Semi-finals: 1962–63
 * Intertoto Cup
 * Group Winners: 1968

Regional

 * Süddeutsche Meisterschaft
 *  Champions: 1916, 1918, 1920, 1921, 1924, 1927, 1929
 * Ostkreis-Liga
 * Champions: 1916, 1918
 * Kreisliga Nordbayern
 * Champions: 1920, 1921
 * Bezirksliga Bayern
 * Champions: 1924, 1925, 1927
 * Bezirksliga Nordbayern
 * Champions: 1929, 1932, 1933
 * Gauliga Bayern
 * Champions: 1934, 1936, 1937, 1938, 1940
 * Oberliga Süd
 * Champions: 1947, 1948, 1951, 1957, 1961, 1962
 * Regionalliga Süd (II)
 * Champions: 1971
 * Southern German Cup
 * Winners: 1919, 1924

Stadium
"Der Club" plays in the communally-owned Max-Morlock-Stadion. It has been the club's home since 1963, and currently has a capacity of 50,000 spectators following the stadium's most recent expansion during the winter break of the 2009–10 season. The club previously played its matches at the Zabo (an abbreviation of Zerzabelshof, the district in which the ground was located).

The stadium was built in 1928 and was known as Stadion der Hitler-Jugend from 1933 to 1945. Originally having a capacity of 40,000 spectators, it was expanded in 1965 to hold 65,000 and subsequently hosted the 1967 Cup Winners' Cup final between Bayern Munich and Rangers, won 1–0 by the German side. The facility was refurbished for the 1974 FIFA World Cup and another recently completed renovation allowed it to seat 45,000 for four preliminary round matches and one Round of 16 contest of the 2006 World Cup.

The Frankenstadion since 2012 bears the commercial name "Grundig Stadion" under an arrangement with a local company. The majority of the fans was in favour of renaming it after club legend Max Morlock. Morlock's name was finally used in 2017.

The club is currently discussing the possibility of building a new stadium, which is to be completed by 2020. A feasibility study has been commissioned and contact has already been made with potential partners. A new stadium is to be made a pure football stadium. It will be built on the site of Frankenstadion and hold a capacity of 50,000 spectators. However, the club has not yet announced any official plans for a new stadium.

Greatest ever team
In the summer of 2010, as part of the club's celebration of its 110th anniversary, Nürnberg fans voted for the best players in the club's history. The players who received the most votes in each position were named in the club's greatest ever team.

 * 🇩🇪 Andreas Köpke
 * 🇩🇪 Ferdinand Wenauer
 * 🇩🇪 Thomas Brunner
 * 🇩🇪 Andreas Wolf
 * 🇩🇪 Stefan Reuter
 * 🇩🇪 Hans Dorfner
 * 🇦🇹 Reinhold Hintermaier
 * 🇸🇰 Marek Mintál
 * 🇩🇪 Max Morlock
 * 🇲🇰 Saša Ćirić
 * 🇩🇪 Dieter Eckstein

Reserves: Hans Kalb, Stefan Kießling, Horst Leupold, Dieter Nüssing, Marc Oechler, Luitpold Popp, Raphael Schäfer, Heinz Strehl, Heinrich Stuhlfauth, Horst Weyerich, Sergio Zárate

Records
Numbers in brackets indicate appearances made.

Coaches
Outstanding coaches of the earlier years include Izidor "Dori" Kürschner (1921, 1922), Fred Spiksley (1913, 1920s), former player Alfred Schaffer (1930s), Dr. Karl Michalke (1930s), Alwin "Alv" Riemke (1940s–1950s) and former player Hans "Bumbes" Schmidt (1940s, 1950s), who notably did not win a single of his four German Championship titles as coach with Nürnberg, but three of them with the long-standing main rivals Schalke 04. He was also four times champion as player, thereof three times with the Club, and once with the earlier archrival SpVgg Greuther Fürth.

Managerial history (Bundesliga era)

Chairmen

 * 1900–1904: Christoph Heinz
 * 1904–1910: Ferdinand Küspert
 * 1910–1912: Christoph Heinz
 * 1912–1914: Leopold Neuburger
 * 1915–1917: Ferdinand Küspert
 * 1917–1919: Konrad Gerstacker
 * 1919–1921: Leopold Neuburger
 * 1921–1923: Ludwig Bäumler
 * 1923: Eduard Kartini
 * 1923–1925: Max Oberst
 * 1926–1930: Hans Schregle
 * 1930–1935: Ludwig Franz
 * 1935–1945: Karl Müller
 * 1945–1946: Hans Hofmann
 * 1946–1947 Hans Schregle
 * 1947–1948: Hans Hofmann
 * 1948–1963: Ludwig Franz
 * 1963–1964: Karl Müller
 * 1964–1971: Walter Luther
 * 1971–1977: Hans Ehrt
 * 1977–1978: Lothar Schmechtig
 * 1978–1979: Waldemar Zeitelhack
 * 1979–1983: Michael A. Roth
 * 1983–1991: Gerd Schmelzer
 * 1991–1992: Sven Oberhof
 * 1992–1994: Gerhard Voack
 * 1994 Georg: Haas
 * 1994–2009: Michael A. Roth
 * 2009–2010: Franz Schäfer

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: 1. FC Nürnberg


text:
Dore Gold

Dore Gold (דורי גולד, born 1953) is an American-Israeli political scientist and diplomat who served as Permanent Representative of Israel to the United Nations from 1997 to 1999. He is currently the President of the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs. He was also an advisor to the former Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon and to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu during his first term in office. In May 2015, Netanyahu named him Director-General of the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs, a position he held until October 2016.

Early life
Dore Gold was born in 1953 in Hartford, Connecticut, in the United States, and was raised in a Conservative Jewish home. His primary education was spent at the Orthodox Yeshiva of Hartford. In the 1970s, Gold attended Northfield Mount Hermon School (Class of 1971) and then enrolled in Columbia University. There Gold earned BA and MA in Political Science, and then a PhD in Political Science and Middle Eastern Studies.

He studied literary Arabic and specialized in international law, and his doctoral dissertation was about Saudi Arabia. This research later formed the foundation for his 2003 New York Times bestseller, Hatred's Kingdom: How Saudi Arabia Supports the New Global Terrorism. In the book, Gold argues that Saudi Arabia actively funds terrorism by supporting the enemies of the U.S. and attacking its allies.

Political career
Dore Gold's political career began in 1985 when Gold served as senior research associate at Tel Aviv University's Moshe Dayan Centre for Near East Studies. Later, he was appointed Director of the U.S. Foreign and Defense Policy Project at the Jaffee Centre for Strategic Studies at Tel Aviv University and held this position from 1985 to 1996.

In 1991, Gold was an advisor to the Israeli delegation at the Madrid Peace Conference. From June 1996 to June 1997 he served as Foreign Policy Adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.

According to Barry Rubin and Judith Colp Rubin, Gold and Netanyahu advisor Yitzhak Molcho were the first envoys of the newly elected Likud government to meet with Yasser Arafat in the Gaza Strip on June 27, 1996. Dennis Ross relates to the "Abu-Mazen-Dore Gold" talks that ensued afterwards as a result of which the Palestinians closed down offices in East Jerusalem that Israel had argued were a violation of the Oslo Accords.

Also in 1996, Gold secured a commitment from Secretary of State Warren Christopher that the Rabin "deposit" on the future of the Golan Heights did not bind the State of Israel. This effort also included obtaining a new US commitment from the Clinton administration to the September 1975 Ford letter, in which it was stated that the US would give great weight to Israel remaining on the Golan Heights. This renewed commitment came in a formal letter of assurances to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu on September 19, 1996.

In December 2013, it was announced that Gold would once again advise Netanyahu, with his purview covering Israel's relations with the U.S. and United Nations, as well as Iran policy.

On May 25, 2015, Netanyahu announced Gold's appointment as Director-General of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, subject to the cabinet's approval. On October 13, 2016, Gold resigned from the Director-General's position for personal reasons.

Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs
Since 2000 Gold has served as president of the non-profit institute, Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs. From 2001 to 2003, Gold served as an adviser to Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon, most notably at the Aqaba Summit with President George W. Bush. During this period, Gold regularly appeared on US network television programs on behalf of the Sharon government, including Meet the Press, The Today Show, CNN's Late Edition, as well as on Fox and Friends. In July 2003, Gold testified as an expert before the U.S. Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs on Saudi Arabia's alleged role in providing ideological and financial support for international terrorism.

Since 2006, Gold led an international effort by the Jerusalem Center for Public Affairs to advocate that UN member states take legal measures against President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad of Iran on grounds that he violated the anti-incitement clauses of the 1948 Genocide Convention, with his repeated statements about "wiping Israel off the map." Gold led a delegation to a conference held jointly with the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations at the New York County Bar Association on December 14, 2006. Speakers included former Canadian Justice Minister Irwin Cotler, Prof. Alan Dershowitz of Harvard Law School, and the US ambassador to the UN John Bolton. Senator Hillary Clinton sent a letter of support to the conference.

Gold led an Israeli delegation to a second conference at the British House of Commons on January 25, 2007 which was chaired by Lord David Trimble and supported by members of the British Labour Party and the Conservative Party. Former Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu joined the Israeli team. As a result of this effort, over 60 members of the House of Commons called for the indictment of Ahmadinejad. A third event organized by Gold and the International Association of Genocide Scholars was held on September 23, 2008 in Washington D.C. Speaking at the third conference was Ambassador Richard Holbrooke, former US ambassador to the UN, as well as Salih Mahmoud Osman, a member of the Sudanese Parliament and advocate for human rights in Darfur.

Books

 * The Rise of Nuclear Iran: How Tehran Defies the West (Regnery, 2009). ISBN 1-59698-571-2
 * The Fight for Jerusalem: Radical Islam, the West, and the Future of the Holy City (ISBN 0786147849 / Publisher: Regnery, Blackstone Audiobooks / Date: Jan 2007)
 * Tower of Babble: How the United Nations Has Fueled Global Chaos (Crown Forum, November, 2004). ISBN 1-4000-5475-3
 * Hatred's Kingdom: How Saudi Arabia Supports the New Global Terrorism (Regnery, 2003). ISBN 0-89526-135-9
 * American Military Strategy in the Middle East: The Implications of the US Regional Command Structure (CENTCOM) For Israel (Tel Aviv: Ministry of Defense Publications), 1993.
 * Israel as an American Non-NATO Ally: Parameters of Defense and Industrial Cooperation (Boulder: Westview Press), 1992.

Selected articles

 * The Political Battle Over the 'Occupation'. The Weekly Standard. July 20, 2012.
 * 'Land Swaps' and the 1967 Lines. The Weekly Standard. June 20, 2011.
 * Israel's 1967 Borders Aren't Defensible. The Wall Street Journal. May 21, 2011.
 * Countdown to September. Jerusalem Viewpoints. May, 2011.
 * Foreign Policy. April, 2011.
 * Statement before the Foreign Affairs Committee of the U.S. House of Representatives. April 5, 2011.
 * The International Context of the U.S. Veto at the UN Security Council. Makor Rishon. February 25, 2011.
 * Israel’s Naval Blockade of Gaza Is Legal, Necessary. Bloomberg. June 10, 2010.
 * Iran's Nuclear Aspirations Threaten the World. LA Times. August 6, 2009.
 * Israel's Forgotten Rights in Jerusalem. Haaretz. May, 2009.
 * Did Israel use "Disproportionate Force" in Gaza?. JCPA. December 28, 2008.
 * The Dangers of 'Peace' Making: America's Latest Efforts Merely Entrenched al Qaeda in the Gaza Strip. Wall Street Journal. August 12, 2007.
 * Saudi Arabia's Dubious Denials of Involvement in International Terrorism. Jerusalem Viewpoints. Oct 1, 2003.
 * Saudi Support for International Terrorism. U.S. Senate Committee on Governmental Affairs. July 31, 2003.
 * The Kingdom of Incitement. Wall Street Journal. April 14, 2003.
 * Baseless Comparisons: UN Security Council Resolutions on Iraq and Israel (Jerusalem Issue Brief, 24 September 2002).
 * Only Buffer Zones Can Protect Israel. The New York Times. Feb 27, 2002.

title: Dore Gold


text:
Talk:Levellers

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vocal appeals to the crowd?
"vocal appeals to the crowd" ?? Does that mean 'speeches'? 'pamphlets, petitions and speeches' is certainly punchier than 'pamphlets, petitions and vocal appeals to the crowd'. DlronW (talk) 14:08, 10 August 2018 (UTC)

Levellers and Agitators
The sentence 'Lilburne considered the term pejorative and called his supporters "Levellers so-called" and preferred "Agitators"' is rather misleading, in that it suggests that the terms 'Levellers' and 'Agitators' are synonymous. The Agitators were delegates or representatives elected by their fellow soldiers of some regiments of the New Model Army, a very unusual example of grass-roots democracy emerging in the military. Many of them were Levellers or Leveller sympathizers, but most of the ordinary Levellers were civilians. PhilG (talk) 22:33, 4 June 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Levellers


text:
2004 rugby league betting scandal

2004 saw a scandal in the sport of rugby league involving Great Britain international players Sean Long and Martin Gleeson. Both players were playing for St. Helens at the time; the match in question was between Bradford Bulls and St Helens on Easter Monday, April 2004.

History
St Helens were scheduled to face Huddersfield Giants in the 2004 Challenge Cup Semi-Final. They had been given a demanding draw in the competition and had already knocked out top teams Bradford, Leeds Rhinos and Hull F.C. in previous rounds. In addition, the Semi-Final was to be played the weekend after the tough Easter period, in which Super League teams are required to play 3 games in a week. As a result, the St Helens squad, having already competed in three more high-intensity matches than all the other Super League teams, were struggling to cope and coach Ian Millward was worried about his players becoming fatigued and losing form heading into the semi-final. To counter this, he rested eleven first choice players for the clash with defending Super League champions Bradford, effectively playing his reserves and accepting certain defeat in that game.

Knowing that St Helens were set to field a weakened side, Long and Gleeson placed bets on Bradford to win. Gleeson bet £1,000 that Bradford would win by a margin greater than eight points, whilst Long placed a bet of similar value on the Bulls' victory.

Bradford won 54–8. Long was one of the players left out of the squad but Gleeson was selected by Millward, and indeed scored the first try.

Both players admitted their guilt and apologised for their actions. An RFL investigation chaired by a panel comprising Judge Peter Charlesworth, Deryck Fox, and David Poulter accepted that there was no evidence to suggest Gleeson had attempted to play badly to influence the result, but both players were declared guilty of breaching an RFL by law prohibiting players betting on matches in which their club was involved, regardless of whether or not they were involved in the game.

They were each fined £7,500 and ordered to pay £2,205 costs. Long was handed a three-month and Gleeson a four-month suspension. A few weeks after receiving the suspension, Gleeson signed for Warrington Wolves for a fee reported at £200,000.

title: 2004 rugby league betting scandal


text:
Thomas Walker (explorer)

Thomas Walker (January 25, 1715 – November 9, 1794) was a physician, planter and explorer in colonial Virginia who served multiple terms in the Virginia General Assembly, and whose descendants also had political careers. Walker explored the Western Colony of Virginia (present-day Kentucky) in 1750, a full 19 years before the arrival of famed frontiersman Daniel Boone.

Early life
Thomas Walker was born at "Rye Field", Walkerton, King and Queen County, Virginia. He was raised as an Englishman in the Tidewater region of Virginia. Walker's first profession was that of a physician; he had attended the College of William & Mary and studied under his brother-in-law Dr. George Gilmer.

Walker married Mildred Thornton (widow of Nicholas Meriwether) in 1741, and acquired land and owned enslaved people in the soon-to be formed Albemarle County from her late husband's estate. The couple built a home known as Castle Hill and had 12 children. They in turn would later become prominent Albemarle County citizens in their own right. Two of Walker's sons, John and Francis Walker, became U.S. Congressmen. After the death of his first wife, in 1781 Walker married Elizabeth Thornton.

Planter and burgess
In April 1744, Walker was elected as vestryman at his church, a position he held for more than forty years, until 1785. He also served Virginia as a delegate to the House of Burgesses many times, first from Louisa County, then newly formed Hampshire County in the Appalachian region, and finally from Albemarle County. Walker also became a trustee of the newly formed town of Charlottesville.

Around 1742, Walker imported six or eight couple of English Foxhounds, thus beginning a fox hunting tradition of the local Albemarle gentry, particularly in Keswick."

Pioneer and explorer
On July 12, 1749, the Loyal Land Company was founded with Walker as a leading member, along with fellow surveyors Joshua Fry and Peter Jefferson, as well as many investors. After receiving a royal grant of 800,000 acre in what is now southeastern Kentucky (which was occupied by Native Americans), the company appointed Walker to lead an expedition to explore and survey the region in 1750, so he set out, probably along the Wilderness Road. Walker also bought a plantation from Frye along the Hardware River in Albemarle County, in part to pay sums due him for his surveying services. Fellow stockholders elected Walker head of the Loyal Land Company in 1752.

During the expedition, Walker gave names to many topographical features, including the Cumberland Gap. His party built the first non-Indian house (a cabin) in Kentucky, and helped Virginia pioneer Samuel Stalnaker build his home on the westernmost point in colonial Virginia. Walker kept a daily journal of the trip.

During some of his expeditions, Walker explored with fellow Virginian, Indian agent, legislator, surveyor and later Revolutionary War general, Joseph Martin, as some of the first colonialists to travel in this area. Martin's son, Revolutionary War officer Colonel William Martin, described the naming of the area and river in a letter to historian Lyman Draper, "A treaty with the Cherokees was held at Fort Chiswell on New River, then a frontier. On the return of the chiefs home, Dr. [Thomas] Walker, a gentleman of distinction, and my father, [General] Joseph Martin, accompanied them. The Indians being guides, they passed through the place now called Cumberland Gap, where they discovered a fine spring. They still had a little rum remaining, and they drank to the health of the Duke of Cumberland. This gave rise to the name of Cumberland Mountain and Cumberland River."

At age 64, Walker again traveled to the western areas of what is now Kentucky and Tennessee; he had been commissioned to survey the border between westward of the Virginia and North Carolina. (At that time each state claimed the land to the west of their boundaries for ultimate settlement by the right of discovery.) Because the border was mapped and surveyed, rather than created along the natural boundary of a river, it was considered controversial. It was called the "Walker Line" and still constitutes the border between Kentucky and Tennessee from east to west terminating at the Tennessee River.

Walker was influential in dealing with Indian affairs. He was appointed to represent Virginia at the Treaty of Fort Stanwix and Treaty of Lochaber (1770), and dealt with the peace negotiations after the Battle of Point Pleasant. In 1775, Walker served as a Virginia commissioner in negotiations with representatives of the Iroquois Six Nations in Pittsburgh, as the colonies tried to engage them as allies against the British.

He is credited as the first to discover and use coal in Kentucky. Because of his broad knowledge of the areas and their resources, Walker became an adviser to Thomas Jefferson from 1780 to 1783 as the future president wrote his Notes on the State of Virginia (1785).

Death, legacy and honors
Thomas Walker died on November 9, 1794, at his home of Castle Hill.

Kentucky built a replica of the cabin which his expedition put up in present-day Kentucky; it has been designated as the Dr. Thomas Walker State Historic Site. Thomas Walker High School is one of two high schools in Lee County, Virginia. It is located one mile east of the town of Ewing, and three miles west of the town of Rose Hill. Thomas Walker High School was built in 1940. It was built to combine Rose Hill High School and Ewing High School. The high school was remodeled and enlarged in 1959. The last addition was added to Thomas Walker High School in 1971. The Rose Hill District is made up of two towns, Rose Hill and Ewing.

title: Thomas Walker (explorer)


text:
Heinz Henghes

Heinz Henghes (20 August 1906 – 20 December 1975) was a British sculptor.

Born Gustav Heinrich Clusmann in Hamburg (Germany). At the age of 17, Henghes ran away from home to go to the United States. In New York City he met a number of artists and writers and was influenced by Isamu Noguchi. In 1932, after eight years in America, Henghes travelled to France and lived for a short time in Paris where he met Constantin Brâncuși. In 1933 he went on to Rapallo in Italy where he enjoyed the patronage of Ezra Pound, who helped him by providing materials and space to work. For the next four years, Henghes was based in Italy, holding a number of exhibitions and building his reputation as a sculptor.

In 1937, following a further interlude in Paris, Henghes moved to England and set up his studio in London. By the time of the outbreak of war he had exhibited in various venues including the Guggenheim Jeune Gallery in Cork Street. Still a German national, Henghes was sent on the notorious ship the HMT Dunera to Australia where he was briefly interned in 1940 at Camp Hay. In 1941 he returned to England and for much of the war did freelance writing on current affairs for the BBC. His talks were broadcast on Radio Newsreel, on the Latin American Service, on the Italian Programme and other services in a variety of languages.

One man and group shows increased after the war and, whilst a lecturer in sculpture at the Royal College of Art in London, Henghes participated in the 1951 Festival of Britain. During this period he also broadcast on art and became a naturalised British citizen.

In 1953 Henghes moved to the Dordogne region of France where he was drawn by the discovery of Lascaux. In 1964 he returned to England to take up the post of Head of Fine Art at Winchester School of Art. He retired again to France in 1973. He died in Bordeaux in 1975.

Henghes is particularly noted for his finely polished white marble torsos, but he moved with the times, always living for the present, and worked in a range of materials and styles.

title: Heinz Henghes


text:
Category:Romantic fiction writers

See also: Romance (heroic literature), Romance novel, List of romantic novelists. Note that this category should not contain writers associated with the Romantic movement.

title: Category:Romantic fiction writers


text:
Talk:Christian Communists

This entry was created to explain the background to the teachings and ideas of Gerrard Winstanley and his followers who were known as True Levellers and The Diggers. MPLX/MH 16:44, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Christian Communists


text:
Talk:Clove

Climates, growing conditions, different kinds?
Some more information on the plant would be helpful, as opposed to just its cooking and medicinal uses.

Classification
It looks like there is a discrepancy between including this as Eugenia or Syzigium aromaticum. It appears that Eugenia is more recent but the Syzigium page has it too and is illustrated with a picture of it. Is there a botanist in the house? Karen S Vaughan 05:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Miscellaneous
"Though long-used in traditional medicine, there is little evidence that clove oil containing eugenol is effective for toothache pain or other types of pain" - looking up the provided sources, they do not actually support the statement, and to some extent appear to say the OPPOSITE. I suggest that this statement either be removed completely, or else changed to an actual quotation of the relevant passages on the provided websites. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.116.101 (talk) 09:30, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

The problem is that we have a "Clove" page, and a "Eugenol" page, but not a "Clove Oil" page. There is much information on the Eugenol page that contradicts this (the Clove) page. Clove Oil is ~%90 Eugenol. Probably, this page shouldn't have ANY information on it about Clove Oil, and the Eugenol page should be renamed to reflect that Clove Oil is essentially unpurified Eugenol. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.116.101 (talk) 09:37, 4 February 2019 (UTC)

Is Clove/Clove Oil, Dense source of antioxidants ? Flavanoids Karen S Vaughan 05:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Yes, like many other dried herbs and seasonings. However, the quantities consumed are too small to be very significant in vivo. However, these may contribute to preservative effects.

Is Alfafa one kind of Clove?--Tomchiukc 16:46, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Not at all. Not even close. Karen S Vaughan 05:08, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

i've read in many places clove oil is used when euthanasia is required for aquatic life. add it? 198.166.226.14 04:27, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

 * If you can find 1 or 2 of those references you mention and they are reliable, why not? --Merbabu 05:56, 4 October 2006 (UTC)

Wait,
Wait, so if I smoke clove flowers that have been dried, and possibly ground, my throat will be numb? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.246.226.36 (talk) 22:21, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
 * I have no idea, but I was eating a Clove-flavored candy-stick (those 15 cent ones at Cracker Barrel) and my whole mouth was in various stages of numbness. I'd venture to say there's a good chance you'd go somewhat numb all through your respiratory tract. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.109.127.254 (talk) 18:07, 21 June 2010 (UTC)

That's not what happens. But it does make for a very smooth blend with tobacco, so that the smoke is non-irritable. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.116.101 (talk) 00:24, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

History
My research indicates that originally the clove tree grew only in the Molucca Islands, in what is now Indonesia. While the spice trade may have eventually brought them to India, they were NOT native to South Asia. Where is there information that the clove tree was native to India? Ellenois (talk) 18:29, 25 January 2010 (UTC)

The article currently says that there is no evidence for clove use as an analgesic. But clove oil is actually a well-known anesthetic, and it wasn't THAT long ago, that dental offices generally smelled of clove oil. Home temporary filling kits, still include clove oil as an anesthetic. Sucking on a single clove will induce minor numbness on the lips and tongue. A half-teaspoon of ground clove will obviate most gut pains, a second dose rarely ever being necessary. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.116.101 (talk) 00:13, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Can't be eaten uncooked?
The back of my bag of cloves says "Usage: do not consume uncooked". They're just normal TRS brand cloves from Madagascar that I got in the local asian shop. This article says nothing about whether they have to be cooked or not, so if someone knows something about this, it would be great if they could add it. Thanks. Great floors (talk) 00:03, 5 January 2017 (UTC)

I consume raw cloves frequently. Cloves don't need to be cooked. But don't make a habit of consuming quantities of them, since they tend to be about %10 eugenol. Sucking on a clove used to be a common method for freshening ones breath (before there were mints). Normally, the whole cloves in food aren't eaten, but are discarded after they impart their flavour, whether cooked or not. I'll guess that the precaution is regarding the possibility of a hard clove becoming lodged in the esophagus, the same as a bay leaf. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.124.116.101 (talk) 00:21, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Adulteration?
I can't quite figure out exactly what this section is for? It seems to be partly uses for other stages of the bud/plant, but also has the exhausted cloves. Section header is also misleading.

--VikÞor |  Talk 23:00, 2 June 2017 (UTC)

 * I came here to bring this up as well. I don't understand how any of the items in the section are adulteration. There may be ways it can be adulterated, but these aren't them. I think we should change the section title. --Cromwellt|talk|contribs 03:37, 29 January 2023 (UTC)

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early history
Somehow the early (1700 BC) archaeological discovery of cloves in Terqa, Syria in the 1970s was under-reported at the time, so now I've added this info. Y-barton (talk) 14:50, 21 February 2022 (UTC)

Dry cloves?
Pl wiki has a pretty nice article on this product: pl:Goździki. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 04:27, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

ancient world
I was reading the article and there is an issue here. The current POV of the article is extremely westernised and looks through the perspective of Western world and Cloves. There is even a claim used to dismiss the cloves in before the colonial times. The issue here is that this dismissal is done by using 1 source when the writers that have written about the ancient world existence of cloves have not one or two but 6 sources. To top it off the claim that the plant was misidentified can easily be refuted by taking a look at the name of plant in one of those mentioned nations. The plant clove in Iran (Persia) was used well before the colonial times. The word for the plant is so old it is a part of the Armenian and Georgian languages and anyone with some historical studies understands that for this word to take root in those two languages it would need to have been introduced to them well before the reformations both languages went through during the medieval times and later periods. The word for Cloves in Persian is Mikhak. It is made of the word Mikh for nail/spike and the added "ak" which is used to mean small. The name for cloves in Persian has literally been since forever "The small spike"! And when you look at Cloves you realise why that is, because it looks like a small spikes.

I would like to have a clear discussion surrounding this claim that Cloves did not exist in the other parts of the world before the Spanish or Dutch started the trade for it in 1700s Kane 1371 (talk) 01:02, 26 January 2024 (UTC)
 * Are you sure you are talking about this Wikipedia article? Drmies (talk) 01:03, 26 January 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Clove