text:
Talk:Christianization

↓ Jump to bottom of page ↓

GA review - discussion
Willbb234. In response to all issues mentioned, the article has been revised and hopefully simplified, objectionable material has been removed, references checked and/or replaced, the copy-vio has been run, and hopefully, the article is improved because of your input. Thank you. If you agree, I would like to renominate. Unfortunately, you can't review since you have now had input into the article, but hopefully I will get someone just as good. Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:10, 7 August 2023 (UTC)

just a few comments from me.
 * The lede seems a bit short per the recommendations set out at WP:LEDE.
 * There needs to be some wikilinks in the lede such as to Christianity and Roman Empire.
 * thrown off balance is not encyclopedic language. If this is the language used in the source, then I would recommend placing this in quotation marks. In fact, the language used throughout the intial paragraph in Individual conversion seems too technical or 'fancy' for Wikipedia. The whole sentence The normative form of Christian conversion begins with an experience of being thrown off balance through cognitive and psychological disequilibrium seems like it would belong in a paper, not on Wikipedia.
 * You need wikilinks to Protestant, New Testament and Eucharist. Confirmation shouldn't be wikilinked in the header.
 * In the confirmation section, there is some text which is presented as a quote. This needs a source and a mention of who said it.
 * There's a general lack of wikilinks. Things like the temple Evora and Roman goddess Diana should be wikilinked.
 * Some individual countries have whole sections devoted to describing their Christianisation, while Africa gets a small mention in Global Christianisation, and Asia doesn't really get any mention at all. South America doesn't have much of a mention either. It doesn't seem like the article is weighted correctly. I think the sections on individual countries of Europe should be condensed into one section (probably named Europe) which would give room for other continents to be covered. The article is already over 11,000 words so I think these other sections would need to be condensed first. Willbb234 13:45, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

 * Willbb234 Sorry for the delay, I have been out of town. These are good comments and I appreciate them.
 * I am okay with a short lead for such a long detailed article. Trying to summarize all of it would make the lead too long. There's no rule against it, and in this case, I think it works best.
 * You are right that there are not enough wikilinks. Usually someone comes along and adds those for me. I'm waiting on them now, but I am guessing they are waiting on us to finish up first. If they don't show, I will do it.
 * Fixed the quote.
 * I am weighing the last comment. I think it is just and true and that right now the article is indeed too western focused. I like and agree with that insight, and think that should be fixed. It's how that troubles me.
 * There are 50 countries in Europe, but no one before me made any effort to include them all. I did not add to their number or subtract any. Those sections were unreferenced, and I did that, and added some text to correct content. I don't know how or why they picked the countries they did. Which leaves me with a dilemma.
 * There are 54 countries in Africa. Northern Africa was Christianized as part of the Roman Empire, and it is mentioned there - a short mention - but a mention. If I add a representative sampling of Africa in the same way Europe is done, it will double the length of the article. I don't know how to even begin to go about choosing which countries to include. Half of Africa is Christian now.
 * Perhaps the best approach is to begin with cutting content on the European countries down. We did that for another article, and can do that here easily enough. In fact, we could cut the mention of most individual countries completely out, and just go with the general statements about the Christianization of Europe in different eras. Leave out individual countries altogether - or at least not include more than a paragraph on each. I could add some more in general on Africa and move Russia into an Asian section. Shorten it too of course. What do you think?
 * I can't include the entire world, but I am thinking that expanding the modern global section (with the editing of Europe) might produce the balance we want. I am out of town off and on, and working on another article as well. It will take me awhile. I'll get back to you after I get your input here - or anyone else who wants to weigh in on the shape and focus of this article. But I will do something with this. Thank you for your help. Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:11, 14 August 2023 (UTC)

thanks for your reply. There's already a lot of articles that cover the Christianisation of various countries, regions or peoples, so I think it's fine to cut these down and just link to the main article.
 * Christianisation of the Germanic peoples could be summarised and included in the article and some notes on how this perhaps differed to other Christianisations across the world or Europe could be added. The section on the Franks could also be included here as they were a Germanic people. The current sub section on the Germanic peoples refers more to their conversion than the Christianisation. I think there's a subtle difference between the two (you know more about this than I do) as Christianisation can also refer to the changes in society in buildings that occur over time. Great Britain and Ireland could probably be placed in one section titled British Isles. I'm just trying to suggest ways in which the article could be cut down and refined, reducing the number of sections for ease of navigation.

Hope I'm making some sense and I think the article looks nice, so good work on that. Willbb234 13:42, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Good work on the Africa section I think it looks really good, but once again, it seems like this might turn out very long if you address individual countries. I'm not really too sure what to suggest, but I think if you talk about the general Christianisation of Africa and then refer briefly to individual countries or kingdoms then this would help to keep the section concise.
 * The Eastern Europe section starts with "In Asia". Is this correct?
 * The Christianization of places and practices section focuses almost exclusively on the early centuries of Christianity and particularly within the Roman Empire, despite the fact that Christianisation of specific places has been occuring for the past 2000 years all across the world (see Christianized sites, although even this article is still slightly skewed towards the Christianisation of Roman paganism). This could do with some brief mentions of places across the world which were Christianised, such as the establishment of the Catholic Church in South America or the earliest churches in North America.

 * Willbb234 Thank you! Those are some good suggestions for cutting back. I had not finished doing that even though I am adding elsewhere - and will probably need to cut the additions some as well, but had to start somewhere. I intend to come back to Asia after Africa, and yes, Eastern Europe is often referred to as being part of the Asian continent. I am not really sure where the "line" would be, but Russia is definitely there. I want to put some discussion of the secret church in China there as well.
 * Christianized sites do not happen to the same degree as they did, so that's why there is an early focus. Conversion is Christianization by definition in the first section. The Americas have a mention under colonialism. Since I am picking what seems like a reasonable sampling of times and places, some are mentioned in one time period and not in another. I think that's all that can be done in a wikipedia article. It has to demonstrate the varieties of methods and outcomes to identify what Christianization is and has been and I think that's all that can be done. It will never be as thorough as we might like, but it will be representative. Please agree that's the best that can be done here! Jenhawk777 (talk) 16:40, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

 * Willbb234 Have rearranged and deleted and added, but I think all I have left to do is China, which I am working on right now and will finish in the next hour. This article is now (9484 words) "readable prose size". It will be a bit more after China, but I will keep it as short as possible. Otherwise, it seems pretty done to me.

 * What do you think? Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:32, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Ok, thanks for your response. I'll take a look soon and get back to you. Willbb234 19:53, 16 August 2023 (UTC)
 * If it's true that conversion is Christianisation, then why do we have separate article for Christianisation and Conversion to Christianity. I'm not trying to catch you out, but surely there's some differences between the two words and so they might address slightly different things? Willbb234 19:58, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

 * Willbb234 You are right, they do address slightly different things but that's exactly why we need both articles you reference. Christianization is more than just individual conversion; conversion is a subset of Christianization, so it's appropriate it has its own daughter article. Christianization also includes sites - which also has its own daughter article - and nations - so the parent article which mentions all three is also called for.

 * That's it - I think - I have run Earwig again, and it is dinging on two sets of quotes, but they are properly quoted, I checked. I didn't forget the quotation marks this time! Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:00, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

 * Willbb234 I want to renominate. I have done all the alt descriptions of all images and checked their copyrights. I have checked all quotes. I have checked that all references have a 978 isbn or a url where they can be accessed. I have checked them for accuracy. I have done a spot check of citations - especially those I could not quite fully remember just in case I had moved something incorrectly as has happened before. All content is 100% accurate and cited correctly. I reorganized - again - just slightly to best reflect time and place and who did what. I believe the article is focused and clear, even though it is talking about three parts of one thing. I think it gives a broad overview without excessive detail but enough detail to get a genuine impression of what's being discussed. I don't think there is any jargon of any kind and that any reasonably intelligent sophomore could follow what's said. I think - I have tried - to fully cooperate and address every concern you had. I do hope that I did not miss anything. I do think the article is improved because of your input. You definitely raised the bar, and I am honestly glad of it. I want to renominate but will call for a peer review - although you have done a good one already - if you think that should be done first. I will wait to hear your opinion before acting on either approach. Thank you again. Sincerely, thank you. You have made a huge contribution to the quality of this article. Jenhawk777 (talk) 20:58, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

 * ok, thanks for letting me know. Of course, it's not up to me whether you renom so if you feel that the article is ready then please do so. I can review again if you'd like, but I'd imagine you'll probably want another set of eyes on this and I'm not sure that I can do the best job. I usually try and review as thoroughly as possible (see this review, for example), but sometimes I do come across as tough, so I apologise for that. Unfortunately, it might be a little while before someone picks up the review - it turns out that the longer articles usually get ignored in the queue. When someone does get round to it, you're more than welcome to ping me and I can try to take another look if needs be. I'm not sure how active I'll be in the future though, so I can't guarantee anything. Willbb234 21:16, 17 August 2023 (UTC)
 * Thanx for the swift response. You have already contributed a lot, so I can understand if you feel done. 'Tough' is always okay with me. I didn't take it personally, I took it as good faith, and in responding, I have no doubt at all the article is better. You have nothing to apologize to me for, but thank you being so considerate.
 * I know about long articles. All the ones I do are. I go looking for articles that need citations, updating, etc. and do total rewrites on occasion. This one has been rewritten three times now. I am feeling pretty good about it now, whereas before I figured a reviewer would catch and I would fix whatever was not 100%, now I feel as though it already is 100%. Thanx to you and your 'toughness'.
 * Don't ever apologize for having a commitment to quality for the Encyclopedia. Too many don't. I do - even if I occasionally fail to hit the goal on my first try. Other editors like you help me achieve that. We have to work together, and you didn't just abandon me after failing the article. You stayed and helped. Feel free to be done any time, but you are always welcome back. Jenhawk777 (talk) 21:30, 17 August 2023 (UTC)

Peer review
Please participate even if you are not willing to take on the official role or a full review. Comment on any section or any aspect. All comments will be taken seriously. You can comment here or at Peer review/Christianization/archive1. Thank you all! Jenhawk777 (talk) 19:53, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Christianization


text:
The Third Policeman

The Third Policeman is a novel by Irish writer Brian O'Nolan, writing under the pseudonym Flann O'Brien. It was written in 1939 and 1940, but after it initially failed to find a publisher, the author withdrew the manuscript from circulation and claimed he had lost it. The book remained unpublished at the time of his death in 1966. It was published by MacGibbon & Kee in 1967.

Plot summary
The Third Policeman is set in rural Ireland and is narrated by a dedicated amateur scholar who studies de Selby, a scientist and philosopher. The narrator, whose name the reader never learns, is orphaned at a young age. At boarding school, he discovers the work of de Selby and becomes a fanatically dedicated student of it. One night he breaks his leg under mysterious circumstances – "if you like, it was broken for me" – and he is ultimately fitted with a wooden leg to replace the original one. On returning to his family home, he meets and befriends John Divney who is in charge of the family farm and pub. Over the next few years, the narrator devotes himself to the study of de Selby's work and leaves Divney to run the family business.

By the time the narrator is thirty, he has written what he believes to be the definitive critical work on de Selby but does not have enough money to have it published. Divney observes that Mathers, a local man, "is worth a packet of potato-meal" and eventually it dawns on the narrator that Divney plans to rob and kill Mathers. The narrator and Divney encounter Mathers one night on the road and Divney knocks Mathers down with a bicycle pump. The narrator, prompted by Divney, finishes Mathers off with a spade and then notices that Divney has disappeared with Mathers's cash box. When Divney returns, he refuses to reveal the location of the cash box and fends off the narrator's repeated inquiries. To ensure that Divney does not retrieve the box unobserved, the narrator becomes more and more inseparable from Divney, eventually sharing a bed with him: "the situation was a queer one and neither of us liked it".

Three years pass, in which the previously amicable relationship between the narrator and Divney breaks down. Eventually, Divney reveals that the box is hidden under the floorboards in Mathers's old house, and instructs the narrator to fetch it. The narrator follows Divney's instructions but just as he reaches for the box, "something happened":

"It was as if the daylight had changed with unnatural suddenness, as if the temperature of the evening had altered greatly in an instant or as if the air had become twice as rare or twice as dense as it had been in the winking of an eye; perhaps all of these and other things happened together for all my senses were bewildered all at once and could give me no explanation."

The box has disappeared, and the narrator is perplexed to notice that Mathers is in the room with him. During a surreal conversation with the apparently dead Mathers, the narrator hears another voice speaking to him which he realises is his soul: "For convenience I called him Joe." The narrator is bent on finding the cash box, and when Mathers tells him about a remarkable police barracks nearby he resolves to go to the barracks and enlist the help of the police in finding the box.

On the way, he meets a one-legged bandit named Martin Finnucane, who threatens to kill him but who becomes his friend upon finding out that his potential victim is also one-legged. The narrator approaches the police barracks and is disturbed by its appearance:

"It looked as if it were painted like an advertisement on a board on the roadside and indeed very poorly painted. It looked completely false and unconvincing."

Inside the barracks he meets two of the three policemen, Sergeant Pluck and Policeman MacCruiskeen, who speak largely in non-sequitur and who are entirely obsessed with bicycles. There he is introduced to various peculiar or irrational concepts, artefacts, and locations, including a contraption that collects sound and converts it to light based on a theory regarding omnium, the fundamental energy of the universe; a vast underground chamber called 'Eternity,' where time stands still, mysterious numbers are devoutly recorded and worried about by the policemen; a box from which anything you desire can be produced; and an intricately carved chest containing a series of identical but smaller chests. The infinite nature of this last device causes the narrator great mental and spiritual discomfort.

It is later discovered that Mathers has been found dead and eviscerated in a ditch. Joe suspects Martin Finnucane, but to the narrator's dismay he himself is charged with the crime because he is the most convenient suspect. He argues with Sergeant Pluck that since he is nameless, and therefore, as Pluck observed, "invisible to the law", he cannot be charged with anything. Pluck is surprised, but after he unsuccessfully attempts to guess the narrator's name he reasons that since the narrator is nameless he is not really a person, and can therefore be hanged without fear of repercussions:

"The particular death you die is not even a death (which is an inferior phenomenon at best) only an insanitary abstraction in the backyard[…]."

The narrator calls on the help of Finnucane, but his rescue is thwarted by MacCruiskeen riding a bicycle painted an unknown colour which drives those who see it mad. He faces the gallows, but the two policemen are called away by dangerously high readings in the underground chamber. The following day he escapes from the barracks on a bicycle of unusual perfection.

As he rides through the countryside, he passes Mathers's house and sees a light. Disturbed, he enters the house and finally meets the mysterious and reportedly all-powerful third policeman, Fox, who has the face of Mathers. Fox's secret police station is in the walls of Mathers's house. He tells the narrator that he is the architect of the readings in the underground chamber, which he alters for his amusement, thereby inadvertently saving the narrator's life. Fox goes on to tell the narrator that he found the cash box and has sent it to the narrator's home, where it is waiting for him. He also reveals that the box contains not money but omnium, which can become anything he desires. Elated by the possibilities before him, the narrator leaves Fox's police station and goes home looking forward to seeing Divney once again; on arrival, he finds that while only a few days have passed in his own life, his accomplice is sixteen years older, with a wife and children. Divney can see the narrator, although the others cannot, and he has a heart attack from the shock. He shouts that the narrator was supposed to be dead, for the black box was not filled with money but a bomb and it exploded when the narrator reached for it. The narrator leaves Divney on the floor, apparently dying.

Feeling "sad, empty and without a thought", the narrator leaves the house and walks away down the road. He soon approaches the police barracks, the book using exactly the same words to describe the barracks and the narrator's opinion of it that were used earlier, the story having circled around itself and restarted. This time, John Divney joins the narrator on the road; they neither look at nor speak to each other. They both enter the police station and are confronted by Sergeant Pluck, who repeats his earlier dialogue and ends the book with a reprise of his original greeting to the narrator:

"'Is it about a bicycle?' he asked."

Publication history
In 1940, O'Nolan completed the novel and circulated the typescript among friends in Dublin. He submitted it to Longman's, the English publisher of his first novel, At Swim-Two-Birds, but they declined to publish it. O'Nolan believed that Graham Greene, who had been a champion of his at Longman, was still a reader with the company, but he was not. Consequently, the novel fell on less sympathetic ears. The rejection notice read in part:

"We realize the author's ability but think that he should become less fantastic and in this new novel he is more so."

The American author William Saroyan, who had become acquainted with O'Nolan during a brief stay in Dublin, offered the use of his literary agent in finding an American publisher, but with no success. O'Nolan made no further attempts at publication and shelved the manuscript, claiming that it had been lost. O'Nolan told his friends that while driving through Donegal the boot of his car opened unknown to him, causing the manuscript to flutter out page by page until it was gone. In reality he left it on the sideboard in his dining room, in plain view to him every day as he ate, for 26 years. He later used elements of The Third Policeman in his 1964 novel The Dalkey Archive. After O'Nolan's death in 1966, his widow Evelyn O'Nolan sent the typescript to MacGibbon & Kee, O'Nolan's publishers throughout the 1950s and 1960s. The firm published the book in 1967. Reviewer Thomas Kilroy described it as a "masterpiece".

O'Nolan's opinion
In a letter to William Saroyan, dated 14 February 1940, O'Nolan explained the strange plot of The Third Policeman:

"When you get to the end of this book you realize that my hero or main character (he's a heel and a killer) has been dead throughout the book and that all the queer ghastly things which have been happening to him are happening in a sort of hell which he earned for the killing … It is made clear that this sort of thing goes on for ever … When you are writing about the world of the dead – and the damned – where none of the rules and laws (not even the law of gravity) holds good, there is any amount of scope for back-chat and funny cracks."

In a passage that was omitted from the published novel, O'Nolan wrote:"Joe had been explaining things in the meantime. He said it was again the beginning of the unfinished, the re-discovery of the familiar, the re-experience of the already suffered, the fresh-forgetting of the unremembered. Hell goes round and round. In shape it is circular and by nature it is interminable, repetitive and very nearly unbearable."

Critical interpretations
Critical interpretations to The Third Policeman have been varied. Anne Clissman, writing in 1975 in the first major study of Flann O'Brien's work, considers the book to be "in many ways a continuation of some of the ideas expressed in At Swim". She described the book as "in parts, extremely amusing, but the overall effect is anything but funny" and noted that the book "shows a fixity of purpose and clarity" which she contrasted with the "organised chaos" of At Swim-Two-Birds. Clissman regards the novel as a less experimental work than At Swim:

"Its central concern is not, as in At Swim, with varying methods of presenting reality in fiction, but with reality viewed through the medium of scientific and philosophical concepts."

Keith Hopper, writing twenty years after Clissman, regards The Third Policeman somewhat differently. Regarding it as "the first great masterpiece […] of what we generally refer to now as post-modernism", he argues that the book is not less but more formally experimental than At Swim-Two-Birds:

"Contrary to O'Nolan's assertion that this novel was without the 'difficulties and fireworks' of At Swim-Two-Birds, this is a more radical and involved metafictional fantasy[…]."

Hopper interprets the narrator's journey as "a quest to discover the borderland between reality and fiction", noting the narrator's "flickering between an awareness that he is a character trapped within a fictional order and his realist belief that he is a 'real-life' person". Hopper also notes the wide range of intellectual and cultural influences on the book, including John M. Synge's play The Playboy of the Western World, J.K. Huysmans's novel À rebours, Einstein's theory of relativity, the works of J. W. Dunne and Cartesian dualism. The critic Hugh Kenner, in a 1997 essay entitled "The Fourth Policeman", advanced a hypothesis to explain why O'Nolan had suppressed the manuscript. Noting the complex ways in which the novel draws on pagan traditions in Middle and Early Modern Irish literature, as well as the ways in which it confounds attempts to inscribe it within a realist tradition, Kenner argued that the book created a "cartoon of Ireland" that was "brilliant but disturbingly coherent." Kenner argues that the book's failure to find a publisher must have caused O'Nolan to reread it, whereupon O'Nolan (in Kenner's account) must have been so "unsettled" by the book's effect, "for he liked his effects under rational control […] and this book grimaced at him, from expressive levels he was careful never to monkey with again", that he suppressed it; not out of despair of it reaching a publisher but because it offended his own "explicitly formed and highly orthodox conscience". Kenner calls O'Nolan's Catholic conscience the "Fourth Policeman" of his essay's title. Kenner finishes the essay by predicting that while The Third Policeman may tend to be neglected in favour of O'Nolan's first novel:

"… it will be rediscovered, and again, and again. There's no killing a piece of mythic power like that."

Allusions in other works
The Third Policeman was featured in a 2005 episode of television series Lost with the intent of providing context for the show's complex mythology, with the result that sales of the book in the three weeks following its mention equalled what it had sold in the preceding six years.

John Cooper Clarke's nonsense prose poem, "Ten years in an open necked shirt" contains the line "What with the drink trade on its last legs and the land running fallow for the want of artificial manures", the same line John Divney uses in the book to explain their lack of funds.

A book cover of the Norwegian book edition is displayed in the last scene of the movie Next Door (2005).

Irish musician Hozier referenced The Third Policeman in the tracks De Selby (Part 1) and De Selby (Part 2) on his 2023 album Unreal Unearth.

Adaptations
The book was adapted by the Ridiculusmus theatre company. Premiered at Aras na nGael, London in 1992 and toured in repertory until 1997.

The book was adapted for an open-air theatre production by Miracle Theatre in 2017, with The Stage judging it to be an "Enjoyably absurd and inventively staged alfresco summer theatre".

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: The Third Policeman


text:
Gottfried de Purucker

Gottfried de Purucker (January 15, 1874 – September 27, 1942) was a Theosophist, author and leader of the Theosophical Society Pasadena (then headquartered at Point Loma, California) from 1929-1942.

Purucker's father, an Anglican minister, prepared his son for his future with the church through extensive training in language and religious studies. Purucker recalls having at age 14 translated the entire New Testament from Greek, and at age 17 having translated the Book of Genesis from Hebrew. But he recalls having had an intuition that something was wrong with the church system he grew up in. It was when he began studying eastern religions and philosophies and Theosophy that, in his words: "I realized that the instinct of my soul had been a true one". Of the Theosophical literature, he said: "I read it avidly and studied it eagerly, and then my heart awoke, as my brain had awoke before. But now, from a study of the theosophical literature, my heart awaking, I began to realize what there was, not only in me, but in my fellows; and I said to myself: hereafter my life is consecrate to what I know to be the truth. No man can live unto himself alone; no man can tread the pathway — the still, small, old pathway — of the spiritual self within him, alone."

These experiences led him to the Theosophical Society, which he joined on August 16, 1893. The years from 1893 until 1903 were spent traveling and working, largely in Europe, before moving to Point Loma and joining the staff at Lomaland, the headquarters of the Theosophical Society, under the leadership of Katherine Tingley. Of this period, Purucker said: "all my early life, up till nearly thirty, was passed in the whirl of social and diplomatic and literary and artistic circles, in Geneva, Paris, and other European capitals and big cities. I hated this life, as you can imagine, and when the word came to me from the "Bosses" to pack up and go to Point Loma into years of retirement and training, I felt like a prisoner released from jail, and going home."

From that time forward, Purucker taught classes, gave lectures and wrote several works on Theosophy. He succeeded Katherine Tingley to leadership of the Theosophical Society in 1929 and saw its operations through the great depression. In 1942, he sold the property at Point Loma and moved the headquarters to Covina, California. He died a few months later, on September 27, 1942.

His legacy includes several publications, including elucidations of the writings of Helena Blavatsky. Several additional works were also published posthumously.

Works

 * Wind of the Spirit
 * Fundamentals of the Esoteric Philosophy
 * Occult Glossary
 * Encyclopedic Theosophical Glossary (Editor-in-Chief)
 * Golden Precepts of Esotericism
 * Man in Evolution
 * The Esoteric Tradition
 * Fountain-Source of Occultism
 * The Path of Compassion
 * The Four Sacred Seasons
 * Studies in Occult Philosophy
 * Questions We All Ask
 * The Dialogues of G. de Purucker
 * Messages to Conventions
 * The Masters and the Path of Occultism
 * The Story of Jesus
 * Word Wisdom in Esoteric Tradition

title: Gottfried de Purucker


text:
Wikipedia talk:Special:ShortPages

Explanation for "Long comment to avoid being listed on short pages": User talk:Necrothesp/Archive 4

The header for this report can be found here. Note that only admins can edit the header page.

Lastnames clutter the list. Can we fix it?
This page is a good tool to find nonsence articles that clutter the mainspace. But unfortunately most of it (actually, almost all of it) right now consist of setindicies for lastnames, making it far less useful for finding actual vandalism. I initially started to add subst:longcomment to these legitimately short articles, but gave up when I realize the sheer scale of my undertaking.

I'm trying to speculate if we can somehow hide them from the list. Disambiguation pages are clearly hidden, so the functionality seems not that remote. Is there somewhere I can read this special page's algorithm to speculate a solution? (Of course, to be implemented only after establishing consensus.) Gaioa  (T C L) 18:49, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

 * I'm feeling the same problem, and I 100% agree with you. It would be extremely helpful for there to be a distinction between lists/set indices and regular articles. — Avelludo 14:29, 14 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Its been a few months, I'm noticing the same thing you two mentioned. How would we change that? I considered adding dab category as a category to the Surname template but Should we ask for consensus at that template page first? Signed, I Am Chaos (talk) 16:00, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
 * I believe the special page excludes pages containing the magic word __DISAMBIG__. ― Qwerfjkl  talk  16:16, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
 * @I Am Chaos @Qwerfjkl Both those solutions could work, but it would be a bit clunky programming-wise. Surname lists are set index pages and not disamb pages, so labeling them as disamb through means of code is a bit of a circumvential bodge and not a reliable solution for a website this large. I think it'd be better to propose a change to the underlying MediaWiki code that spawns the specialpage, to make it exclude  completely, alternatively a new magic word to put into that template. If it's done for disambs, it could and should be expanded to other needed functions.  Gaioa  (T C L) 20:35, 1 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Good point, this is a relatively secluded talk page, should someone move this to WP:VP/T? or is there a better place? Signed, I Am Chaos (talk)

 * Damn, I missed that conversation (and this reply!) until just now.
 * I feel like long comment is a really poor solution to this. I can think of at least 3 main points against it:
 * We're too far gone for manual labor: There are literal thousands of short index pages already. Even if one were to use that fancy scripting method @Tamzin described (which includes acquiring a new user permission, and understanding how to use a third-party script (that, from my understanding, could be prone to human error and potentially cause mislabeling)), it would still take a lot of man-hours – and, frankly, I don't think there's a lot of people willing to give that away for such a niche, seemingly unimportant cause.
 * It doesn't solve the issue long-term: New disambiguation pages and indices will continue to be created, forever, and requiring someone to manually monitor for them to add the template (again, forever) doesn't sound like a great long-term solution to me. Even assuming one or two ShortPage warriors start templating every index today – keeping in mind that, for the last many years, there have been none –, what's to say they'll still be around and willing in, like, a decade? Fifteen years? What then? The list just deteriorates again until we get new pure-hearted souls with too much time in their hands?
 * It doesn't even solve the issue at all!!: The long comment template page states pages going over 550 bytes will automatically have it removed. Per my counting, the comment has 272 characters, meaning articles with more than (550 − 272 =) 278 characters cannot use this solution. (Articles with 279 characters start at position #3288 in the list, as of writing; see my first point.) I checked the first 100 articles with 279 characters (and then got tired) and, as of writing, they are all list indices, save for one, Nosurahu. This means that, even if we got through the huge barrier of templating the over 3 thousand shorter indices, we'd still have the exact same issue on our hands! ShortPages would still be cluttered!!
 * I don't intend to be mean or ungrateful – I appreciate the help and input from other people. This is just my 2¢ of using long comment as a permanent solution. I undersand it would take time to figure out and implement a proper solution – but we have been at this for 3 years already, so time isn't much of a worry, and it would no doubt be better for the website long-term. The way it is currently, the usability of the ShortPages list is severely diminished, and makes it actively discouraging to check.
 * If there really is no other option but long comment, then so be it – but you can't say I didn't try! Cheers — Avelludo (Talk / Contribs / Log) 02:24, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Wikipedia talk:Special:ShortPages


text:
User talk:Mantaray

so... anything you want to talk about?

Image:Cx4storm.jpg has been listed as a possibly unfree image
The same for Image:Aimpoint-CompML3.jpg --Bullpup 11:44, 11 October 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Mantaray


text:
Jordan Hubbard

Jordan K. Hubbard (born April 8, 1963) is an open source software developer, authoring software such as the Ardent Window Manager and various other open source tools and libraries before co-founding the FreeBSD project with Nate Williams and Rodney W. Grimes in 1993, for which he contributed the initial FreeBSD Ports collection, package management system and sysinstall. In July 2001 Hubbard joined Apple Computer in the role of manager of the BSD technology group, during which time he was one of the creators of MacPorts. In 2005, his title was "Director of UNIX Technology" and in October 2007, Hubbard was promoted to "Director of Engineering of Unix Technologies" at Apple where he remained until June 2013.

On July 15, 2013, he became CTO of iXsystems where he also led the FreeNAS open source project.

On March 24, 2017, he announced his plan to depart from iXsystems and that he would be joining TwoPoreGuys, a Biotechnology company, as VP of Engineering. From January 2019–April 2020 he was part of the Engineering Leadership team at Uber and, as of April 2020, is currently Senior Director for GPU Compute Software at Nvidia.

rwall incident
On March 31, 1987 Hubbard executed an rwall command expecting it to send a message to every machine on the network at University of California, Berkeley, where he headed the Distributed Unix Group. The command instead began broadcasting Hubbard's message to every machine on the internet and was stopped after Hubbard realised the message was being broadcast remotely after he received complaints from people at Purdue University and University of Texas. Even though the command was terminated, it resulted in Hubbard receiving 743 messages and complaints.

title: Jordan Hubbard


text:
Madagascar lowland forests

The Madagascar lowland forests or Madagascar humid forests are a tropical moist broadleaf forest ecoregion found on the eastern coast of the island of Madagascar, home to a plant and animal mix that is 80 to 90% endemic, with the forests of the eastern plain being a particularly important location of this endemism. They are included in the Global 200 list of outstanding ecoregions.

Geography
The ecoregion constitutes a narrow strip of lowland forests between Madagascar's east coast and the mountainous Central Highlands, from sea level to 800 m elevation. It covers an area of approximately 112,600 sqkm. The ecoregion is under the direct influence of the oceanic trade winds, which maintain a warm, humid climate; rainfall is above 2,000 mm per year and can reach up to 6,000 mm on the Masoala peninsula.

The lowland forests extend from Marojejy in the north to the southeast corner of the island. At the northern edge of ecoregion around Vohemar, the moist forests transition to the drier Madagascar dry deciduous forests ecoregion. To the east, at approximately 800 m elevation, the lowland forests transition gradually to the Madagascar subhumid forests ecoregion. The southern end of the ecoregion lies at the crest of the Anosyennes Mountains, where a narrow belt of dry transitional forest marks the transition to the dry spiny forests ecoregion in the mountains' rain shadow.

Flora
The lowland forests are characterized by dense evergreen forests, 82% of which is endemic species, with a canopy exceeding 30 m. Typical canopy species include Dalbergia, Diospyros, Ocotea, Symphonia, and Tambourissa; emergents of Canarium, Albizia, and Neobrochoneura acuminata rise above the canopy. The lowland forests have a rich diversity of Pandanus, palm, bamboo, and epiphytic orchid species. At higher elevations the trees become shorter and have a denser undergrowth.

Fauna
The lowland forests represent a great reservoir of diversity and endemism. Nearly all of Madagascar's endemic mammal genera are represented there, including all five families of lemurs.

Fifteen species and subspecies of lemurs are endemic and near-endemic to the ecoregion, including the aye-aye (Daubentonia madagascariensis), the hairy-eared dwarf lemur (Allocebus trichotis), both species of ruffed lemurs (Varecia variegata, V. rubra), the indri (Indri indri), the eastern woolly lemur (Avahi laniger), the diademed sifaka (Propithecus diadema), Milne-Edwards's sifaka (P. edwardsi), the golden bamboo lemur (Hapalemur aureus), the greater bamboo lemur (Prolemur simus), the gray-headed lemur (Eulemur cinereiceps), the collared brown lemur (E. collaris), and the red-bellied lemur (E. rubriventer). As well as lemurs, the forest are home to seven endemic genera of rodents, six endemic genera of carnivorans and several species of bat. Rare animals include the brown-tailed mongoose (Salanoia concolor).

The lowland forests are home to many of endemic and limited-range species of birds. Of the 165 bird species found here 42 are endemic to the region, such as the rare red-tailed newtonia (Newtonia fanovanae). The brown mesite (Mesitornis unicolor), red-breasted coua (Coua serriana), scaly ground roller (Geobiastes squamiger), nuthatch vanga (Hypositta corallirostris), helmet vanga (Euryceros prevostii), Bernier's vanga (Oriolia bernieri), red-tailed newtonia (Newtonia fanovanae), and dusky tetraka (Xanthomixis tenebrosa) are largely endemic to the lowland forests, ranging occasionally into the lower montane forests. The Madagascar serpent eagle (Eutriorchis astur), short-legged ground roller (Brachypteracias leptosomus), Madagascar red owl (Tyto soumagnei), Pollen's vanga (Xenopirostris polleni), and brown emu-tail (Bradypterus brunneus) live in both the lowland forests and montane forests. The rufous vanga (Schetba rufa) and Madagascar green pigeon (Treron australis) are widespread Madagascar lowland birds who inhabit the humid lowland forests as well as the dry forests on the west of the island.

A famous extinct species is Delalande's coua (Coua delalandei) which has not been seen since the 19th century.

The forests are also home to 50 endemic reptiles and 29 amphibians such as the following chameleons: Calumma gallus, Calumma cucullatum, Furcifer balteatus, Furcifer bifidus, Brookesia superciliaris, and Brookesia therezieni. The freshwater fish population, with more than 100 endemic species, is also unique.

Threats and preservation
Madagascar's lowland rainforests have been preserved generally better than the high central plateau, but there has still been substantial loss. Widespread slash-and-burn activity in the lowland rainforests is one of the major reasons. Slash-and-burn is a method sometimes used by shifting cultivators to create short term yields from marginal soils. When practiced repeatedly, or without intervening fallow periods, the nutrient-poor soils may be exhausted or eroded to an unproductive state. Another threat is the selective exploitation of some species, such as palms and tree ferns.

10.79% of the ecoregion is in protected areas, including national parks and reserves. They include:
 * Ambato Atsinanana
 * Analamazaotra National Park
 * Andasibe-Mantadia National Park
 * Andohahela National Park
 * Kalambatritra Reserve
 * Manombo Special Reserve
 * Marojejy National Park
 * Ranomafana National Park
 * Mangerivola Special Reserve
 * Masoala National Park
 * Tsitongambarika
 * Zahamena National Park

title: Madagascar lowland forests


text:
Talk:Jason Kidd

Teams Kidd has played for
Seems all wrong. I'd edit it myself, but it appears I can't. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.194.101.164 (talk) 00:22, 19 March 2010 (UTC)

Comments
Under the section of USA Basketball this text appears "He was the only freshman chosen to take part in Team USA's 10-member team. The team played five games in Europe and finished with a record of 3-2." Then later in that same section it reads "Jason Kidd has an impressive resume in USA basketball. In his professional career, he has an undefeated record of 38-0 (44-0 if counting exhibition games)". I'm having a hard time figuring out how he had a record of 3-2 AND a record of 38-0. Some clarification needs to be made or something... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.107.176.2 (talk) 20:56, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Removal of Vandalism - "is a wife-beating, nba player"

Is Jason Kidd black or white??

i recall that he's of mixed heritage (primarily black and white) altho i couldn't turn up anything at NBA.COM at the moment.

 * Jason Kidd is clearly Caucasoid, and even more significantly white. His father is African-American, but the label is not synonymous with the term black (although in American society the two can be used interchangeably). His father (like most African Americans) probably already had a significant amount of European admixture (probably even more so than the average). Kidd is indeed an African-American, as the term really refers to the long standing community of individuals descended from American slaves shipped from Africa. But clearly, he isn't negroid or anywhere close to black. -The preceding comment was added by NAfr 20:22, 15 May 2007 (UTC).

i just added a whole lot more profiling his overall game, but there is really much more to add in the future- starting with his nationally-recognised high school success. --nicolas.b 02:50, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The being referred to as "Ason" because he lacked a "J" was done in his high school years not in the NBA. Can someoen clarify this?

Thought the article was in need of a cleanup so I reworked it a bit, adding new info, etc. Hope this improves the overall quality of the page. He hasn't been talked about a lot this season, but he obviously has had a huge impact on the recent success of the Nets in the East. MCDRLx 05:17, 29 March 2006 (UTC)

GUYS, CAN WE NOT GET A BETTER PICTURE ON THE MAIN PAGE???? BUCSRSAFE.
 * Good point, the mugshot leaves a terrible impression. --Downwards 06:07, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

In the begning of the article, the line "He led the New Jersey Nets to two consecutive NBA Finals appearances (2002 and 2003) and is considered to be one of the best players of his generation, one of the greatest playmakers in NBA history and also one of the greatest point guards in NBA history." seems a bit one sided to me. While he is a good player, im questioning the neutrality of this article. Tcmstr134 (talk) 18:21, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

"On December 26 2009, Jason Kidd moved into 2nd place on the all-time assists list in a win against the Houston Rockets, surpassing Mark Jackson on the list." On December? It was on November. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.30.91.1 (talk) 02:08, 27 November 2009 (UTC)

Photo
Is a mug shot necessary? One of the greatest point guards in NBA history and you have a mug shot?

I removed the mugshot picture, we need a better one on the page and it leaves an awful impression. --Bucsrsafe 19:09, 1 July 2006 (UTC) I personally like this photo from the 2006 playoffs (http://www.nba.com/media/nets/kidd_140_050713.jpg) taken from his profile on NBA.com, new here so I'm not sure if this violates copyright guidelines on wikipedia. --Meltzercool 05:46, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

why the fuck is j-kidd under wikiproject texas? born in oakland, went to school at uc-berkely, and plays for new jersey

he played for dallas mavericks

can someone remove that bit which should be BIOGRAPHY not what it currently says.

Ok, Joumana Kidd does not need her own Wikipedia. And if you are a going to have one of her, at least make it accurate. The Kidd twins are 5, not 4.

Trivia
Added Justin Kidd --Pumaren Jason Kidd's Mom was white and his Dad was Black. SO he is technically half and half, and please do not swear on Wikipedia. I am a 7 year old Genuis and i cannot be ruined by foul language

lol

Playoff triple-double clarification
One of only two players in NBA history to average a triple-double in a playoff series of six or more games (17.5 ppg, 11.2 rpg, 10.2 apg) in the 2002 Eastern Conference Finals vs. the Boston Celtics (the other is Magic Johnson).

So, is this saying that only two people have ever averaged a triple-double in a playoff series of six or more games while playing the Boston Celtics in the Eastern Conference Finals in the year 2002? I don't think Magic played in that year.

StatisticsMan 17:07, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

JASON KIDD DAD IS AFRICAN AMERICAN SO THAT MEANS
HE is african american why is that so hard for some to understand. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.144.20.254 (talk) 21:30, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

he's both white and black, just like someone who may be Irish and German —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.68.108.237 (talk) 23:37, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

According to the "rules" in the USA, created by White people, if you have just one drop of Black blood then you are Black. Has there been a rule change, when did White's change the rule and inform the public on thie change? —Preceding unsigned comment added by

76.169.247.175 (talk) 19:46, 20 December 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually, the rule change came in the 1960s when it became illegal to make laws against one particular race. Yes, it is true that states like Virginia had rules on the books that defined black as having any drop of "black blood," but such laws are illegal now and have been since the 1960s. Kingturtle (talk) 20:27, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

 * He is most accurately described as "of mixed descent". -- Shruti14 t c s 18:21, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

how can he be white when his father is african american? wouldn't he be a mulatto and have darker skin? isnt that how genetics work? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.163.105.244 (talk) 05:51, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

He has grey eyes. Grey eyes are a recessive gene. You can not get grey eyes unless you have the "light-eye" gene from BOTH parents. There are no light eyes among sub-Saharan Africans. Therefore we can say with certainty that Kidd's father is mixed race, as is Kidd. This also explains why he isn't darker skinned. He's maybe 3/4 white or perhaps 5/8 or something like that. In the era that his father grew up in being 1/2 or 1/4 white you would be identified, and self identify, as Black. Hopefully we are now in an era where mixed race individuals are not forced or pushed into identification with only one part of their heritage. It's sad that people's comments here refuse to deal with the facts that we have many generation mixed race individuals in the USA.

Mr. Mustache?
Is this really a legit nickname for Kidd? Kingturtle (talk) 01:57, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
 * No. It was probably vandalism. Zodiiak (talk) 02:48, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

incorrect stats
yeah,

um some phoenix fan must have changed his statistics....because according to his stats here he averaged a triple double during the 99-2000 season...pretty sure that didn't happen..and the other seasons in phoenix appear to be wrong too...i was too lazy to change it though —Preceding unsigned comment added by 129.116.20.36 (talk) 06:12, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Dallas Mavericks 2008
Shouldn't we wait until the trade to Dallas is signed and announced by either the NBA, Dallas Mavericks, and/or the New Jersey Nets before calling Jason Kidd a Dallas Maverick in the opening sentence? As of 6:00 PM CST, the deal is "all but signed" or "imminent" and is only an agreement on principle. He isn't officially a Dallas Maverick yet. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.168.76.50 (talk) 00:08, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Sounds reasonable; I got involved by accident, just saw somebody changing a player's team name and asked on IRC if it was vandalism or legitimate. Either way, this is a momentary confusion which should be resolved one way or the other, soon enough, no? – Luna Santin  (talk) 01:33, 14 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The trade is a done deal. The players involved were pulled from their games. Enigma (talk) 01:52, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

For all recent sports trades Shaq, Santana, etc... the team details were only changed after the trade was confirmed. Also note that there's complications in the deal with George vetoing the trade. --Madchester (talk) 02:15, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Fair enough. Enigma (talk) 02:16, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

Just an update... neither the trade nor George's veto have been officially confirmed... so be careful with the wording of the "trade". --Madchester (talk) 02:33, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

 * George's veto has definitely not been confirmed and that edit came from nowhere. For the future, it's Devean George. Enigma (talk) 02:38, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

 * OK, George did veto it. Sorry. Enigma (talk) 02:44, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, Devean did (smart guy!), but I'm sure that Nelson and Cuban will submit another offer to the Nets. Basketball  110   i'm not yik ginlyùn  03:14, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

I removed the "Blocked trade" topic from the article. The trade is not officially blocked, it has been delayed, but to say it is blocked (yes I know that is the headline being used) is not correct. This is an encyclopedia, and the job is not to get it first, it is to get it right. I suspect it will resolve itself completely in a day or two. Arzel (talk) 23:29, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

 * The Mavs haven't submitted the deal, and George thinks it dead. No word from Donnie, Ave, and Markie. Basketball  110   i'm not yik ginlyùn  00:28, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I think it's relevant information to the Jason Kidd article. The Nets tried to trade him and it was blocked by George. Enigma (talk) 01:20, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

 * It has not been officially blocked. George said he wanted to review the situation before agreeing to it.  If he agrees then the trade goes through, if not it doesn't and then we can say it is blocked, but that is not the case right now.  Arzel (talk) 04:19, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

Just a heads up to watch this page's edits with another proposed trade in the works. ESPN reports that the earliest the trade may occur is Monday... even then the trade still needs league approval and passed physicals. I will semi-protect the page again if the speculative edits about the trade go out of hand. --Madchester (talk) 02:55, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

 * Recommend semi-protection. Look at all the reverts today.  Enigma  msg! 05:16, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Could I add the trade info? It looks like a done deal. Thanks.

76.229.134.124 (talk) 18:29, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I reverted the latest edits, but it is indeed a done deal. I'll be making the changes.  Enigma  msg! 18:50, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Renamed Section
I renamed the "2001-2008" subsection to "New Jersey" because that's what the section discusses - his career with the Nets. Let me know what you think about this rename. -- Shruti14 t c s 04:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Children
Jason Kidd has 4 children, not three. He had a child in 1993, Jason Kidd Jr. His eldest son is now a freshman in high school in California and plays basketball. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alfall999 (talk • contribs) 02:49, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

Early Kidd's life is wrong and incomplete....
As a former teammate and friend of Kidd's, let me clear some facts. Kidd is biracial but he considers himself black so do as such. He led St Pascal's in scoring all his years he attended. He played in the Ametuer Athletic Union since 13 where he was a starter on the 15yrs division team for "Slam N Jam". His head coach was Rick Lynch, a real estate broker. Won Tourneys in Las Vegas, Reno, Orlando, and Los Angeles and at all he was a tourney allstar and MVP. He has always had a Jumper but he was focus on assists as he wanted to be like Magic. his official nicknames are J-Kidd, The Kidd (which he had a poster with the monicker after the 1993 CIF Championship) and Little Magic. He "no showed" on a date to the prom with actress Gabrielle Union, was looked at as a baseball prospect by the Oakland A's. In the 1993 CIF High School Championship, he played against Mater Dei High School who had future NBA star Baron Davis who was a freshman on the team. Played on various teams with bay area players like Brian Shaw, Gary Payton, Antonio Davis and others.

Can someone edit this with this info Monico love (talk) 11:56, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Need sources. Wikipedia is about verifiability.  If you have sources, then please feel free to make the appropriate edits yourself.  Zodiiak (talk) 14:52, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

Jason Kidd
His new girlfriend, Porshla Coleman, is currently pregnant with his child. —Preceding unsigned comment added by NinaRoss (talk • contribs) 23:06, 10 November 2009 (UTC) he has 6 kids

trying to add ethnicity line to his personal line
trying to put this line in there, but it wont let me (click edit to see full line)
 * ethnicity = Irish American and African American

admission to Cal
I seem to recall that California law had to be changed to permit Kidd to enter Cal as he didn't nearly meet the institution's strict academic standards. Maybe that should be added. Don't Be Evil (talk) 20:28, 14 May 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Jjdebaca, 10 February 2011
'St. Paschal's Baylon' should be 'St. Paschal Baylon'

Jjdebaca (talk) 15:12, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
 * ✅ Kante4 (talk) 15:38, 10 February 2011 (UTC)

Ancestry
Is Jason Kidd really white? He looks as latinos and has very wide nose. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.173.95.111 (talk) 11:52, 7 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Really? That is not something that we want to promote as information. If the cited sources say so, then so be it. We are not going to speculate someones race based on appearance alone. --RichardMills65 (talk) 06:01, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Biography
Does this art still need the "sources needed" template ? It looks like there are quite a few references and they are well cited. --RichardMills65 (talk) 06:00, 21 February 2012 (UTC)

Who the heck is Danny Anderson
I've followed Cal forever. I have no recollection of anybody named Danny Anderson on the 92-93 Cal team making the all Pac-10 freshman team, nor any other year. I can't find any evidence of this person on the internet. Anybody know who this is? It's not referenced in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.172.173.2 (talk) 21:08, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * Removed. Thanks.—Bagumba (talk) 23:03, 15 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It's probably some very old vandalism. I can't find anything about him, either. Zagal e jo^^^ 00:57, 16 November 2012 (UTC)

Coach of Brooklyn Nets
Kidd was announced on 12 June as the new coach of the Brooklyn Nets. Just wanted to give a heads up. Kidd Announced El3ctr1csheepz (talk) 01:30, 13 June 2013 (UTC)

Looking for someone to nominate this article for GA status
Does anyone think this article is up to GA status?--Bigpoliticsfan (talk) 23:27, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Player Profile and Heading
The Steve Nash page mentions he is 9th in ESPN's list of the greatest point guards of all time, twice, once on the heading and another on the player profile. Kidd is 7th in that list. you guys should add it. here's the ref link: http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/dailydime?page=dailydime-GreatestPointGuards — Preceding unsigned comment added by 49.144.167.243 (talk) 01:38, 24 December 2014 (UTC)

Add "Wife Beating"
In his personal section, first sentence, his wife beating charge is euphemistically called "domestic abuse". I say call a spade a spade and change it to "wife beating". There is no need to beat around the bush.

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Jason Kidd. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20030814225643/http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com:80/basketball/nba/2002/playoffs/news/2002/05/02/pacers_nets_ap/ to http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2002/playoffs/news/2002/05/02/pacers_nets_ap/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20050526044111/http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com:80/basketball/news/2003/07/11/kidd_nets/ to http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/news/2003/07/11/kidd_nets/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 08:25, 19 October 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 2 one external links on Jason Kidd. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20140320095011/http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2002/playoffs/news/2002/05/25/nets_celtics_ap/ to http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2002/playoffs/news/2002/05/25/nets_celtics_ap/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20041012194817/http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com:80/basketball/nba/2003/playoffs/news/2003/05/24/nets_pistons_ap/ to http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/nba/2003/playoffs/news/2003/05/24/nets_pistons_ap/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

Cheers.—cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 15:28, 6 January 2016 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 8 external links on Jason Kidd. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080622170520/http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=353960 to http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=353960
 * Added tag to http://cbs.sportsline.com/nba/story/10652280
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.nba.com/nets/news/brooklyn-nets-name-jason-kidd-head-coach?ls=iref%3Anbahpts
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150403161900/http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/2011/01/jason-kidd-moves-ahead-of-glen-rice-on-3.html/ to http://mavsblog.dallasnews.com/2011/01/jason-kidd-moves-ahead-of-glen-rice-on-3.html/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081231025556/http://www.usabasketball.com/news.php?news_page=07_aoy_male to http://www.usabasketball.com/news.php?news_page=07_aoy_male
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/jason-kidd-retires-nba-19-seasons-171334136.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/06/04/lichtenstein-farewell-thanks-and-good-luck-to-jason-kidd/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://nesn.com/2011/05/jason-kidd-must-be-considered-greatest-point-guard-in-nba-history-if-mavericks-win-championship/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20090622072004/http://www.slamonline.com/online/the-magazine/features/2009/06/the-new-top-50/ to http://www.slamonline.com/online/the-magazine/features/2009/06/the-new-top-50/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 19:13, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 5 external links on Jason Kidd. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://www.webcitation.org/66QHKIYcd?url=http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_kidd/career_stats.html to http://www.nba.com/playerfile/jason_kidd/career_stats.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.nba.com/nets/news/brooklyn-nets-name-jason-kidd-head-coach
 * Corrected formatting/usage for https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/jason-kidd-retires-nba-19-seasons-171334136.html
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2013/06/04/lichtenstein-farewell-thanks-and-good-luck-to-jason-kidd/
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://nesn.com/2011/05/jason-kidd-must-be-considered-greatest-point-guard-in-nba-history-if-mavericks-win-championship/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 18:52, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Jason Kidd. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20150403151630/http://www.usab.com/seniormen/2008/mediaguide/kidd_jason-oly.pdf to http://www.usab.com/seniormen/2008/MediaGuide/Kidd_Jason-oly.pdf

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 10:50, 11 December 2017 (UTC)

Vandal
Lock for vandal please?Ketlag 23:16, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

 * I protected it before seeing your request. Note that it would be better to ask at WP:RFPP next time, as there are always eyes on that noticeboard. --Chris (talk) 23:39, 11 May 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jason Kidd


text:
User talk:Ugen64/Archive 2

Political spectrum
http://www.politicalcompass.org/ Political spectrum has alot of alternates, and more info, etc.. Sam Spade 18:45, 9 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Hi. I haven't used one of the Talk pages before, so I hope I'm doing this correctly. I looked at your recent Gettysburg edits and I have some issues with a few of them. [Overall, you've put in a number of good things, although I wonder where is the tipping point between a concise encyclopedia entry and a lengthier article.] I believe the ethic of this effort is for me to make the mods and then we can discuss. OK? I'll do the edits later today.

Hal [hlj]

Thanks for replying on my page. I did forget the magic signature. (I haven't done editing recently and these things fade. :-))

big_hal 14:30, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

AMA co-ordinator election is now on
You may now vote for user:Ed_Poor or user:Alex756 in the first ever AMA co-ordinator election. Follow the instructions on AMA Coordinator Election Procedure for more details.

AMA members who wish to abstain from voting must also e-mail wikipedia_ama_voting@yahoo.co.uk with notice of that intent.

To clarify anything before voting, ask user_talk:Zanimum or user_talk:Jwrosenzweig on their talk pages.

AMA members have until April 30, at 11:00:00 EST to vote. -- user:zanimum
 * Your vote has been counted. Jwrosenzweig 15:50, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)

My comments on talk page
I'm sorry but why you deleted my comments and  when it's obvious that they cannot be considered to be any attack by anybody? Tkorrovi 03:13, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Why you archive this talk page so frequently? And you never discussed it with anybody before doing that, maybe this is not what others want? Tkorrovi 03:39, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)

RE: Holocaust and Talk Pages:

"1) Person editing in mentions of Palestinians is an anti-Semitic troll."

My mentioning of the Palestinian Holocaust and Genocide hardly makes me "anti-Semitic", which is a misnomer and adding this truth does not make me any "troll", and both are nothing but slanderous "personal insults", and no more and no less.

"2) I am not opposed to discussing the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. I am largely sympathetic to the Palestinians. However, this is not the appropriate article for that issue."

It is "very appropriate" because this is "the lesson of history" that MUST BE LEARNED by all, or another "Jewish Holocaust" is VERY LIKELY to happen again.

"3) Even if it were the appropriate article, the information being added was non-encyclopedic and not suitable for the position in the article in which it was being placed. Considering the aforementioned anti-Semitic troll nature of the author, I did not feel particularly inclined to waste my time revising it for them. Snowspinner 00:37, 20 Apr 2004 (UTC)"

The article section is "quite appropriate" for the reasons I have just given, what information, specifically, was "not suitable" and "why" for the position in the article? HOW DARE you personally insult me with falsely and personally insulting me and calling me any "anti-Semitic" or "troll nature" because you do not understand just how relevant and important that section within the article actually is? You are such an narrow-minded bigot that you do not see what the future holds for all Jews, everywhere, with your own selfish and biased bigotry and ignorant pov editing of the truth. A blood curse be upon all of your ilk that always censors the Truth for any such selfish and foolish and bigoted narrow-mindedness!

Hi ! Double thanks for the support on steward, and for the fun on irc :-) Hope to make limited abuse ;-) SweetLittleFluffyThing

Ferret ? Hu; but I never had a ferret on my shoulder :-(

why are you being silly
? Sam Spade 02:52, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * P.S. paul isn't exactly a valued contributer, he is an ornery anon w pushing an unpopular POV. ;) Sam Spade 02:56, 21 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Abkhazia/Incumbents
Abkhazia was an independent principality between its independence from the Ottoman empire (1500s) and its annexation by Russia in 1864. It currently claims independence from Georgia (since 1994), but this republic is not internationally recognized and so for now I will only consider the principality a separate state. -- Jonel 03:17, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * Glad you like the heads of state pages. John Kenney came up with the idea of separate pages after we decided that we couldn't be fair to all states and keep them all on the main year page.  See the 1876 page for his template.  I have been doing the XXX of Abkhazia because I've seen that monarchs in general have that, while presidents and prime ministers do not.  Some of the later Abkhazian princes have names that could be confusing, so I would like to keep that convention.  -- Jonel 03:21, 23 Apr 2004 (UTC)

You call those 1816 ones obscure? You beat me to the general idea, but I'm working on different year and throwing in the Maronite Catholic Church. That seems to be what the trend on those pages is going towards; I would have liked to have a nice neat Heads of state list, but it seems that is not to be. -- Jonel 02:40, 24 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Hey, we seem to have ironed out at least the formatting issues on the lists of leaders by year stuff, and I've started a wikiproject on it at WikiProject Leaders by year if you want to join in. So far we've mostly just summarized the stuff that's already been hammered out. john 06:19, 27 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Adminship
I have nominated you for adminship at sep11:Wikipedia:Administrators. --"D ICK " C HENEY 16:03, 3 May 2004 (UTC)

message
Please don't edit inside that text-but where it says "leave a message". Especially when the page is protected-not cool. GrazingshipIV 01:03, May 10, 2004 (UTC)

Requests for comment/GrazingshipIV
If you could sign on this page where it says

"Other users who endorse this summary ( ~ ):"

That would rock. Cheers, Sam Spade 04:13, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

 * You should read everything on the page before signing anything :) AndyL 08:27, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

 * If you are joining Sam in certifying the dispute, you will need to sign the page as indicated by Sam. Otherwise, the dispute will not be considered certified and will be deleted after 48 hours. --Michael Snow 17:34, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

 * He did, have you looked? Sam Spade 17:37, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I had checked initially, I missed that this had been added. --Michael Snow 17:41, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I was never very good at rules-lawyering, but isn't the requirement that two users certify the dispute, not that one user should certify and the other endorse? (And hasn't this come up before on another RfC page?) Anyway, ugen64, if you do in fact certify the dispute, would you make that clear? If not (if you endorse it, but don't want to certify it for whatever reason), we'll just take the page down at the prescribed time, eh. —No-One Jones 23:30, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Hello again. Sam Spade has altered the summary quite a lot since you endorsed it; would you be sure to reread it before you sign again? Thanks. —No-One Jones 00:35, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

Re: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Augusto_Pinochet#CIA_poll

FYI, User:VeryVerily is now claiming that you had no role in editing or contributing to the page, visibly no understanding of the issues, and were voting ideologically.

So, I guess that renders your comments irrelevant- or maybe not. 172 09:30, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

 * 172 is smearing me . P.s., pleased to meet you. - VV 10:01, 18 May 2004 (UTC)

Please see Talk:Augusto Pinochet. 172 14:57, 19 May 2004 (UTC)

Request for AMA assistance
We have received an anonymous request for AMA assistance from an IP address, I have directed that individual to contact me if they wish not to create a Wikipedia account. If you are interested in helping please let me know and if I hear from this individual I will try and put you in contact. See AMA Requests for Assistance. Thank you. — ©   Alex756   03:15, 18 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Hey
Looks like I found another 'kid' on wikipedia. Or at least I heard you were a kid Hello. I'm 13 years old...and I live in Illinois. Ilyanep (Talk) 14:37, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Anonymous note
Sorry about the anon conflict, but that's bound to happen from time to time. I actually don't think I've seen it happen before, but I guess it's more likely at a University. – Jrdioko (Talk)  23:53, 6 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Response to your comment
User talk:Ilyanep

Peerage
Generally, articles should begin simply "John Smith, 1st Baron London" (or whatever)—"The Rt Hon," etc., is not necessary. The full style would, especially for Dukes (who tend to have numerous titles), be extremely long, and would be ugly in bold font. Post-nominals should not be included here, I believe, because they are not usually used to refer to the individual. Instead, one might have a complete listing of all of the individual's titles elswehere in the article (see the example Arthur Wellesley, 1st Duke of Wellington, which lists his numerous titles in the second paragraph). -- Emsworth 23:23, 9 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Gt Officers
It seems to be that the Great Officers have precedence over Secretaries of State, and are therefore categorised first. As for article titles, I would suggest that the article title always be used for collation. Even if one collates as "Germain, Lord George," the category will display "Germain, George, 1st Viscount." To consider the example of the second Marquess of Londonderry, it would be unusual to look under "L" and find "Castlereagh." -- Emsworth 02:44, 1 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Support
Thank you very much for your support during my recent run for adminship. I appreciated it very much. If you would like to talk sometime, please drop me a note on my talk page or email me. Mike H 00:05, Sep 10, 2004 (UTC)

Hi. You had listed yourself as interested but unable to attend this weekend's meetup. I just wanted to let you know that I cancelled it for lack of participation; it would have only been User:TheCustomOfLife and me. But we should all get together on an informal mailing list or something to plan some activity for the future. Jimbo Wales 12:35, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks.
Thanks for reverting my userpage! :) [[User:Neutrality|Neutrality (talk)]] 17:55, 12 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for your support for my adminship. Jayjg 16:41, 14 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Cabinets
I do not think that eighteenth century cabinets should be placed at the pages of the monarchs. George I and George II tended not to influence the composition their own Cabinets as much as the Prime Minister (the latter, for example, could not prevent the appointment of William Pitt the Elder). George III tried to influence the appointment, but failed. Lists after 1783 should be noticed on prime ministerial pages.

As to your second question: I'm not a university student (though I would hope to be one soon); I am now fifteen years old. -- Emsworth 01:35, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Man, all you young 'uns...at any rate, as I said, I wouldn't mind having the 1721-1783 period listed on the monarch's page, but I think it still ought to be divided up by ministry. That is to say, for George I, you'd have the initial Whig ministry dominated by Townshend (1714-1717), the first Stanhope/Sunderland ministry (1717-1718), the 2nd Stanhope/Sunderland ministry (1718-1721), the Walpole/Townshend ministry (1721-1727)... then for George II you'd have Walpole/Townshend (1727-1730), Walpole (1730-1742), Carteret (1742-1744), Pelham I (1744-1746), Bath/Granville (1746), Pelham II (1746-1754) Newcastle I (1754-1756), Pitt (1756-1757), caretaker (1757), Newcastle/Pitt (1757-1760). From George III on one might want to list by PM, I'm not sure. I think one advantage of listing on the monarchs' page is that you then don't have to worry so much about who is "really" prime minister, which is often a problem in this period. Wilmington was 1st Lord of the Treasury 1742-1743, but Carteret was running the ministry. Same with Devonshire and Pitt in 1756-1757. And then you have joint-premierships like Walpole/Townshend, Newcastle/Pitt, Newcastle/Bute, the whole weird business of Chatham's quasi-ministry that he never actually directed, and then Fox/North/Portland...Anyway, I'm open to either of way of doing things. But I think Emsworth is minimizing the amount of monarchical control. Sure, in 1746 George II couldn't keep his preferred Granville/Bath ministry in power for more than a couple of days. And sure, in 1756, he had to call on Pitt, even though he didn't like him. But at the same time, I'd venture to suggest that the king really was still head of government at this point. The king still presided over cabinet meetings, for instance. And he really did have influence over the choice of ministries. Thus we see Granville (that is, Carteret), for instance, serving as Lord President from 1751-1763. I doubt this was because the Pelhams and Pitt had any fondness for him. Bute's appointment was also due to this. Also note the dismissal of Townshend and Walpole in 1717...

On the other hand, the PM couldn't always control who his ministers were at much later dates. Thus, Russell had to include Palmerston in his cabinet, even though he hated him. At any rate, I could go either way. Certainly from Pitt the Younger on, we should have it on the PM page. john k 02:35, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

What about not including cabinets on anybody's pages? Instead, there could be a page such as List of British ministries or some such thing. In this manner, the articles on the Kings and Prime Ministers do not get too cluttered. -- Emsworth 19:16, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

That would make sense, so long as we insure that there are links from the appropriate PMs' pages, and that we don't lose any information. john k 19:18, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The "See also" section would address the issue. It remains to be determined how we are to structure the ministerial lists. One notices several possibilities, with their attendant disadvantages: -- Emsworth 19:31, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * By reign (This method is currently used for the historical lists of Privy Counsellors. But the pages for George III, Victoria and Elizabeth II could become extremely long.)
 * By ministry (This method does not show changes from ministry to ministry. But it does permit one to keep all information associated with a particular ministry on a single page.)
 * By Parliament (The proposition that ministers stay in office even whilst there is no Parliament—that is, that they do not automatically leave upon a dissolution—is not taken into account. On the other hand, changes in ministries as a result of such things as no-confidence motions could be indicated.)
 * By year (This method could be very tedious; furthermore, it does not show the evolution of a particular ministry over a number of years.)

The table seems fine, except perhaps that there could be some border within the table (see the new table just implemented on Robert Walpole), and the years could be linked. -- Emsworth 19:58, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I think that each ministry could have its own page, with a link from List of British ministries. -- Emsworth 23:18, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

List of British Ministries
Thanks for creating this page. I've been looking for a way to add information on the ministries/cabinets under the later Stuarts, and this list also provides an excellent opportunity to recognise the problems common with the early sections of lists of Prime Ministers (all except the Waldegrave issue). I've extended the list back to the start of Anne's rain. This already goes beyond the 1707 start for the UK, and I'd like to go back to 1660, but I'm not sure how to handle Scottish government during that period (and only have a few pointers on the seperable Scottish ministries). I'd suggest only running it up to Pitt's ascendancy in 1783 - Portland being the last contentious identification of a PM. After that cut-off, I think a pointer to the list on Prime Minister of the United Kingdom would suffice. Perhaps the list of PMs could be seperated from that article onto its own page, then the various cabinet lists seperated from the PM articles (as has been done with Thatcher) and linked seperately from a fifth column on the PM list. (On that last point, I'm wondering about the possibilities of working cabinet lists into full government lists. The information is out there for PMs since at least 1924, but it would be a lot of work.) -- Gregg 17:28, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

That's what I was suggesting - that the lists of cabinets be moved off the PM's articles onto their own pages (one for each PM). But I also think we could seperate the list of PMs from Prime Minister of the United Kingdom (to List of Prime Ministers of the United Kingdom), and then link to each seperated cabinet lists from there (by adding a fifth column to the table). If we have that, I think the Ministries list need only run to 1783, then send one on to the list of PMs - after 1783, a list of ministries is just going to duplicate the list of PMs. -- Gregg 18:02, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Marlborough was the most powerful member of that government even though he did not hold one of the Great Offices; Godolphin only held his position by virtue of their friendship. Marlborough and Godolphin were both responsible for the conduct of government (and in 1704, Harley joined them, forming that Triumvirate). (It should probably be Godolphin/Marlborough. Or maybe even Marlborough/Godolphin.) I'm taking the names from either the most senior member(s) of the ministry (in terms of actual power and in respect of office), or (in the case of the Cabal, the Junto's and Anne's Triumvirate) the commonly given name for that government. The exception is the Temple ministry - I've picked the name of the de facto head of that brief government, but he did not hold ministerial office and excercised power as a member of the Privy Council and the King's closest advisor. The alternative there would be The Triumvirate although Rochester also intially formed a Triumvirate. -- Gregg 20:19, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I changed the name of the first one in respect of what had been done elsewhere in the list (the two Stanhope/Sunderland ones, which reflect the shift in power at the top). But I notice now that you've done one for my original title, Coalition Ministry, and it might be best to go back to that. However, Marlborough should be listed either first or second - he was the key figure in that government - and Harley should be third from 1704 onwards. -- Gregg 20:23, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, I think that works well. Churchill was a Whig. The Queen had strong Tory sympathies, but her best friend and (effectively) closest advisor, Churchill's wife, was stridently Whiggish. Godolphin had fallen out of favour with the Tories and was somewhat independent - he stayed on as leader of the second Whigh Junto. The most senior, unabashed Tory in the government was Nottingham. Harley did enter Parliament as a Whig, but by 1704 he'd become a moderate Tory, and indeed was the leading Tory in later years. Some individuals' attitudes to how much power the monarch and church should have, changed depending on the monarch - so there was some flip-flopping between Whig and Tory. -- Gregg 20:52, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * more: I think it's safe to describe Godolphin as a Tory, but he didn't have the support of the rump of the Tories. Harley was elevated because, though he was voting with the Tories, his Whiggish roots made Churchill and Godolphin think he'd be more amenable than Nottingham. He was also a favourite of Anne's. He was thus given much more power than Notts had had, leading to the notion of a Triumvirate. But he became increasingly Tory as the coalition wore on, and was eventually excluded, along with the rest of the Tories, in 1708. Godolphin and Marlborough continued in the Whig Junto, though Spencer became the main policy-maker in the government. -- Gregg 21:00, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The Duke of Wellington
As I read, I have the following suggestions: But the article is a very good start, and with more work could become a featured article. -- Emsworth 13:37, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * In the third paragraph of the section "Early life," one finds the sentence, "The next year, his elder brother, Lord Mornington, was appointed Governor-General of India..." But in the first paragraph of the entire article, one finds "He came from an established family of noblemen – his father was Earl of Mornington ..." Although I can conclude that the second-mentioned Lord Mornington inherited the dignity of the first-mentioned Lord Mornington, the uninitiated might not leap to the same conclusion, and might begin to founder on "Lord Mornington"'s actual relationship with the subject of the article. Thus, I suggest that each sentence specifically refer to one or the other Earl: in the first case, Garret Wesley, 1st Earl of Mornington, and in the second case, Richard Wellesley, 2nd Earl of Mornington.
 * One could explain the progression from Viscount to Duke with more details: currently, one only sees a mention of his Viscountcy, followed by "Returning to England hailed as the conquering hero, Wellington (by now advanced in the Peerage to the rank of Marquess) was created Duke of Wellington." The Marquessate was created in 1812; the article should explain why it was granted.
 * The sentence "Officers under his command called him "The Beau", thanks to him being a fine dresser or "The Peer" after he was created a Duke" does not seem accurate. He was a peer when he was a Marquess, as well.

Invisible Pink Unicorn
You placed the {protected} tag on the Invisible Pink Unicorn article. When do you plan to remove it? According to the Protection policy, pages are supposed to be protected for a few days only.

beta Systemic Bias section
Hi, if you wish to help contribute to a beta version of a Wikipedia page section designed to counter-act Wikipedia's systemic bias, please sign the bottom of this section on the Village pump - Village_pump. If not, no worries.--Xed 03:52, 22 Sep 2004 (UTC)

And Thank You For Your Support
Thanks for your vote on my nomination for administrator. Since there is great opposition, I've asked for it to be withdrawn. I've posted an explanation of frequent edits on Requests for adminship. Ave! PedanticallySpeaking 19:10, Sep 22, 2004 (UTC)

Hi there this is the Sandboxer
umm, I was wondering how to delete the sandbox that I created. Also, if this is not the appropriate means to contact you, how should I do it?
 * Well, you see, I created it so that I could determine the differences between the two texts that I had written, so do you have any suggestions as to how I might accomplish this other than to create such a page?
 * p.s. How did you become an administrator?

Ok, last question, how do I upload images? Also, do you think that it might be feasible to allow users to delete their own pages, rather than asking an admin? Ummm 01:03, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC) What about special pages? Also, is it possible to do the tilde thing and have it leave a talk link, like neutrality did, only not using the link method? 01:15, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC) (that was just to see what would happen) umm, also, who exactly "hands out" administratorship? Ummm 01:17, 23 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Gzornenplatz and Bush
Just to fill you in, I want to note that I've been having problems with Gzornenplatz for months now. My previous attempts to resolve issues with him were dismal failures, to say the least. That might put the present conflict in context, in addition to what is (and isn't) on Talk. V V 01:06, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Masters of the Horse
I have access to a fairly good source (although one that irritatingly leaves out peers' ordinals) that, I think, would give Masters of the Hourse up to 1890 or so. If you have access to a university library, you could perhaps find it as well. Haydn's Book of Dignities, or some such, is the title. It provides lists for pretty much every British office up to when it was written, which was during the second Salisbury administration. After that, unfortunately, it becomes difficult. The lists of Lord Chamberlains and Lord Stewards, for instance, remain incomplete. When I get the chance, I'll try to fill in the material up to 1890, though. john k 22:21, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Lady Louise of Windsor
Thank you for your contribution to the debate. I hope this can be resolved amicably.

I've responded to the factual elements of your comments on the talk page. I haven't referred to your comments that I should put my concerns into the article. I am puzzled by that - how am I meant to put in the article 'ignore what it says at the very start of the article as it is very misleading. What we say is her name is not and no-one has ever actually in any context referred to her by that'???? Ok, I'm demonstrating my point by reductio ad absurdum but I don't see how you can sensible use the body of the article to argue that the very start of that article is wrong.

Also, why do you agree with what john and FearEirean and proteus are saying? Their position honestly sounds like legalistic nonsense to me. Jongarrettuk 22:56, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Personal attacks
I advise you not to support other users' personal attacks. Do you even have any idea what the dispute on that article is about? And even if he's right, does that make those sorts of attacks "okay"? V V 23:41, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * What would I have good "reason" to say to you about now? Would that make it okay? V V  04:16, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I think you misunderstand me. Saying what you did to me on RfA is arguably fairly provocative.  I could respond with all manner of personal attacks, but it so happens that might be wrong.  I was hoping pointing this out might make you rethink that kind of comment, which appears to me to reflect (a) ignorance of the issue and (worse) (b) snap judgement against another editor. V V  07:01, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

hey ugen
piss off. i haven't touched that page in 3 days now; i've been blocked over it (against policy); i've acknowledged i displayed poor judgement. i'm tired of taking shit repeatedly over a minor edit dispute. so, piss off my self-righteous friend. Wolfman 05:41, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

logic
I noticed this statement you made on VV's page:

"I did not say his remarks were warranted, nor did I say they were correct; rather, I merely stated that he had good *reason* to make those... statements. Agreement with previous reasons does not necessarily indicate agreement with the statement following those reasons. ugen64 02:58, Oct 1, 2004 (UTC)"

Firstly, to me, "warranted" and "having good reason" are the same thing. I don't see how you can mean one and not the other. You can pretend that there are subtleties that differentiate them, and that those subtleties are important - but in this context, not really, they don't constitute the brunt of what's being communicated.

Secondly, agreement with previous reasons do not neccessarily indicate agreement with statements that chronologically follow those reasons, but they do neccessarily indicate agreement with statements that logically follow from those premises. Saying that "he had good reason to make those statements" clearly disambiguates: you were using "follow" in the logical sense. See logic. Kevin Baas | talk 17:41, 2004 Oct 2 (UTC)

Thanks!
Ugen - many thanks for supporting my adminship! Ðåñηÿßôý | Talk 04:59, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Trolling
Sam Spade IS a troll, and nobody can convince me otherwise.

As to your other question, the revert rule should be enforced, by everybody, no questions asked. RickK 22:49, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)

Star
I thank you very much for the most kind award of a Barnstar. I see that I am now both a fictional Earl and a fictional Knight :) -- Emsworth 23:52, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ugen64/Archive 2


text:
Hochneukirchen-Gschaidt

Hochneukirchen-Gschaidt is an Austrian market town in the district of Wiener Neustadt-Land. The municipality was formed by merging the former municipalities of Hochneukirchen and Gschaidt.

title: Hochneukirchen-Gschaidt


text:
Glan (Gurk)

The Glan (Glina) is a river in Carinthia, Austria, a right tributary of the Gurk. It is 64.3 km long. Its drainage basin is 825.2 km2.

It rises north of the Wörthersee in the Ossiach Tauern, then running through Feldkirchen, going northeastwards passing the castle Burgruine Glanegg until it reaches Sankt Veit where it bends sharply towards south. It flows through the Zollfeld Valley, the historical heart of the Carinthian duchy, and through Klagenfurt, the state capital. At Ebenthal southeast of Klagenfurt is the confluence with the Glanfurt River, the Glan bends eastwards and finally flows into the river Gurk.

It was first mentioned as Glana in a deed of donation issued by Emperor Otto II at the 983 Reichstag in Verona. The name derives from Celtic (Noric) glanos meaning "bright, clear", cf. Glanis, Glanum, Glen and English "clean".

title: Glan (Gurk)


text:
A Band Apart

A Band Apart Films LLC was an independent production company founded by Quentin Tarantino, Michael Bodnarchek, and Lawrence Bender that was active from 1991 to 2006. Its name is a play on the French New Wave classic film, Bande à part ("Band of Outsiders") by filmmaker Jean-Luc Godard, whose work was highly influential on the work of the company's members.

History

Tarantino formed A Band Apart in 1991, naming it after his favorite Godard film, Bande à part. The company's logo was a stylized image of the robbers from Reservoir Dogs, Tarantino's debut film. Subsequently, several legal entities within the company were named after the film's characters. Mr. Pink LLC was for music video production budgets, and Mr. Brown LLC was for commercials.

In addition to Tarantino, members of the company included Robert Rodriguez, John Woo, Tim Burton, Steve Buscemi, Darren Aronofsky, John Landis, Athanasius Acropolis, Joseph McGinty Nichol, Nigel Dick, Varl Hobe, Steve Carr, Cameron Casey, Marcel Langenegger, Wayne Isham, Cale Donk, Terry Windell, Lisa Prisco, Paul Street, Phil Harder-Rick Fuller, Coodie & Chike, Osbert Parker, Luc Besson, Porker LeVance, Adam Christian Clark, André 3000, Christopher Morrison and Michael Palmieri, Ducky Powell, Andy Mornahan, Chash Brower, Steve Lowe, Loren Hill, Darren Grant, Charles Whittenmier, Geoff McGann, Olivier Venturini, The 405 Guys, and Craig Tanamoto.

The company catapulted to fame with the 1994 release of Tarantino's Pulp Fiction, which was considered by some critics to be the most influential American film of the decade. In the summer of 1995, the company added a division for commercials and later, for music video production, adding a third co-owner Michael Bodnarchek. Kristin Cruz (aka Kris Foster) and Heidi Santelli launched A Band Apart Music Videos as directors' rep and executive producer, respectively.

Company closure
Tarantino and Bender had an amicable split, leaving Tarantino as the sole owner of the studio, while David Heyman (Harry Potter, Gravity) produced Tarantino's ninth film Once Upon a Time in Hollywood.

The company is listed for Tarantino's Inglourious Basterds (2009) and Django Unchained (2012), and credited for Grindhouse (2007).

title: A Band Apart