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Disney's Blizzard Beach

Disney's Blizzard Beach is a water theme park located at the Walt Disney World Resort in Bay Lake, Florida near Orlando. All water areas are heated to approximately 80 F, with the exception of the melting snow in the ice cave of Cross Country Creek.

The park opened on April 1, 1995, as the third Walt Disney World water park. In 2016, the park hosted approximately 2,091,000 guests, ranking it the third-most visited water park in the world behind its sister park Typhoon Lagoon. Blizzard Beach is open year-round with an annual maintenance closure in the winter. During the Blizzard Beach closures, Typhoon Lagoon usually remains open.

Most major attractions at the park are found atop Mount Gushmore, an artificial hill with an elevation of 90 ft. Mount Gushmore is split into three colored slopes to aid guests navigating around the park: Green, Red, and Purple.

The park's winter theming was conceived by designer-Imagineer Marshall Monroe, a Creative Executive and Principle Technical Staff at the Walt Disney Company. Innovative elements of the park include a beach chair-themed chair lift, complete with beach umbrellas, and pretend snow skis. The setting and atmosphere of the park blend together tropical landscaping with simulated melting snow. The central mountain is unique as a large structure in the high water table Floridian woodland. The architecture brings together an aesthetic of alpine lodges with Caribbean colors and accents.

The water park, along with all the other Walt Disney World parks, closed in March 2020 due to the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic. Blizzard Beach and Typhoon Lagoon remained closed while the four other Walt Disney World theme parks reopened from July 11–15, 2020. Disney's Blizzard Beach reopened at Walt Disney World Resort on March 7, 2021, after being closed for nearly a year.

Park story
According to Disney "legend," a freak snowstorm on January 11, 1977, in the area led to the development of Florida's first ski resort. Ski lifts were put up, toboggan runs were laid down, and an entire resort area blossomed around the mountain of snow. Naturally, because of the normal temperatures in Florida, the snow dissipated very quickly, and the snow rapidly turned into slush. This left behind a collection of waterlogged yet snowless ski jumps and chair lifts. The operators were preparing to cut their losses and walk away. However, they were interrupted by a loud yell coming from the summit of the mountain of melting snow, and looked up to see a blue alligator sliding down the mountain at top speed. Ice Gator, the blue cartoon mascot of the park, then landed in a pool of melted snow at the base of the mountain with a thunderous splash. The ski resort operators suddenly saw the park's potential, and the mountain of snow became Disney's Blizzard Beach, "the most slushy, slippery, exhilarating water park anywhere!"

As the story goes in Disney's promotional materials, slalom courses, bobsled, and toboggan runs became downhill water slides. The creek of melted snow that formed at the base of the mountain became a relaxing tube ride. The chairlift carried swimmers instead of skiers. The ski jump became the "tallest and fastest water slide in the world."

Green Slope
The Green Slope attractions (all single-track water slides, not meant for racing), are found at the uppermost point of Mount Gushmore. They can be accessed by foot, or by chairlift. The chairlift is a one-way ride except for guests with disabilities.

 * Summit Plummet is the park's flagship attraction at 120 ft tall and speeds of up to 60 mph. It's the third tallest and fastest free-fall slide in the world. There is a minimum height requirement of 48 in. Summit Plummet is one of the highest and fastest water slides on Earth, coming in just behind Insano at Beach Park in Brazil.

 * Teamboat Springs is the world's longest family white-water raft ride at 1400 ft long. This attraction sends guests down a twisting series of rushing waterfalls. Water park guests sit in large blue rubber rafts, which can hold a minimum of four and maximum of six people, and hold on to handles while they ride. No infants are allowed, and other health restrictions are advised.
 * Slush Gusher is a 90 ft, 250 ft snow-banked mountain gully body slide attraction that reaches speeds up to 35 mph. In two places, the slope levels off, only to drop back down again. As such, it is one of only a few water slides where air time is achieved.

Purple Slope
The Purple Slope attractions (all of which have at least two nearly identical tracks, and are designed for racing) can be reached via a pathway near the catch pool of Downhill Double Dipper.

 * Downhill Double Dipper is one of the world's only side-by-side racing tube slides. It is located next to Snow Stormers on Mount Gushmore. This attraction's slides are 50 ft high and 230 ft long. Guests travel up to speeds of 25 mi/h on these twin inner tube runs, where they pass by ski racing graphics and flags. Time clocks count off each downhill heat, and the runs are outfitted with automated audio equipment that signals the start of each race. This is one of few racing slides where push-off speed is not a factor, as gates hold back riders until it is time for the race to begin. This attraction has a minimum height requirement of 48 in.
 * Snow Stormers is a mat slide consisting of three flumes that are 350 ft long. This attraction sits between Downhill Double Dipper and Toboggan Racers on Mount Gushmore. The attraction descends from the top of the mountain and follows a switchback course through ski-type slalom gates. Guests lie on their stomachs on the toboggan-style mat as they ride down the flumes. Riders pick up mats at the top of the attraction (which shares a mat conveyor with Toboggan Racers).
 * Toboggan Racers is an 8-lane, 250 ft water slide next to Snow Stormers on Mount Gushmore. The attraction sends guests racing over dips as they descend the slope along the side of Mount Gushmore. Similar to Snow Stormers, guests lie on their stomach on the toboggan-style mat as they race each other to the finish line.

Red Slope
The Red Slope is found at the very rear of the park, containing only one attraction (a multi-slide attraction with convergent tracks, not designed for racing).

 * Runoff Rapids is a 600 ft inner tube run featuring two open slides and one enclosed tube slide. This attraction sends guests down twisting flumes, passing through corrugated steel pipes. Tubes can be picked up at the bottom of the attraction. The ride is not accessible, as stairs are the only way to reach the attraction. After reopening in 2018, at the completion of a year-long refurbishment, one of the open tube slides was closed down. In 2019, the third tube slide re-opened.

Ground level

 * Melt-Away Bay is a 1 acre wave pool at the base of Mount Gushmore. This attraction is constantly fed by "melting snow" waterfalls creating "bobbing" (short) waves.
 * Cross Country Creek is a 3000 ft is a lazy river ride that travels around the perimeter of the water park. The attraction carries floating guests (in inner tubes) through a faux ice cave. Once inside the cave, guests will be splashed with "melting" ice from overhead. There are seven entrances and exits for this attraction located throughout the park, and at any of these locations, guests may pick up tubes or leave them behind as they exit. The journey takes between twenty and thirty minutes to complete depending on crowd level.

 * Ski Patrol Training Camp is an area for pre-teenage children.
 * Leisure Pool is a pool that contains "icebergs" on which guests under 12 can walk across.
 * Fahrenheit Drops, commonly known as the "T-Bar", is a rope drop attraction that deposits guests that are under 5 ft tall into 8.5 ft of water.
 * Freezin' Pipe Springs is a short body slide attraction. It deposits guests in the same water area as Fahrenheit Drops, but has no height restriction.
 * Cool Runners is a wide-open slide (inner tube) area created by rapidly melting snow mounds (moguls).
 * Tike's Peak features gentle slides designed to resemble scaled-down versions of attractions at Blizzard Beach and characters from Frozen. Also included is a snow-castle fountain play area with pop (water) jets. Picnic benches are nearby. Management suggest wearing footwear to protect from hot pavement. The attraction is limited to children under 48 in.
 * The Chairlift is a "one-way" ride that carries up to 3 guests over the craggy face of Mount Gushmore from its base at the beach to its summit. The chairs carrying guests feature wooden bench seats, colorful overhead umbrellas, and snow skis on their undersides. This is the most common means of transport to the summit, but guests can also climb a staircase to the top. A gondola is also provided for disabled guests to access the top of Mount Gushmore. There is a minimum height requirement of 32 in 48 in to ride alone.

Food and beverage

 * Avalunch offers light snacks and refreshments. It is located next to the entrance of the Chairlift.
 * Frostbite Freddie's is a bar located adjacent to Snowless Joe's in the Village.
 * Lottawatta Lodge is a ski lodge providing outdoor covered seating and is the main counter service area.
 * Polar Pub is a bar located on the beach by the wave pool.
 * I. C. Expeditions offers ice cream, desserts, and refreshments. It is located near the Chairlift.
 * The Cooling Hut offers light snacks and refreshments. It is located in the Village.
 * The Warming Hut offers hot food and refreshments.

Coolers are allowed in the water parks. The only restricted items are glass and alcohol. Guests are required to wear swimwear that is "appropriate," and sharp objects are prohibited in the water parks. Children at young ages must wear swim diapers or pants.

Merchandises

 * Shade Shack is a jewelry store featuring pearls. It is located in the Village across from the changing rooms.
 * Snowless Joe's is a rental location offering locker and towel rentals and complimentary lifejackets. It is located in the Village next to the changing rooms.
 * The Beach Haus is the main merchandise store and rental location for lockers, towels, and life jackets. It also offers souvenirs, swimwear, and footwear. It is located in the Village between the Main Entrance and Lottawatta Lodge.

title: Disney's Blizzard Beach


text: User:Kate/silsor images

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:Kate/silsor images


text: User talk:24.165.88.87

title: User talk:24.165.88.87


text:
Worth1000

Worth1000 was an image manipulation and contest website.

Worth1000 opened on January 1, 2002, and hosted over 340,000 unique images made in theme contests such as "Rejected Transformers", "Invisible World", and "Stupid Protests". In mid-2003, Worth1000 began hosting similar competitions for photography, creative writing, and multimedia. The service was shut down on 1 October 2013. In June 2014 the site was acquired by Sydney based crowdsourcing site DesignCrowd from Emerge Media.

The website was designed by Avi Muchnick and Israel Derdik. Muchnick named it after the old saying "a picture is worth a thousand words".

Worth1000 and its members have created three books on image manipulation: When Pancakes Go Bad, I've Got a Human in My Throat, and More Than One Way to Skin a Cat.

Contests
Competition mostly took place in a series of themed contests. A subject title was given along with a sample photo manipulation from a previous or similar contest and a brief description of what contestants should try to do. Entries were then accepted for a fixed period of time, after which they were posted so people could vote on them, and the results were then compiled. Examples of contests were: Others include mating animals with instruments or plants, zombifying or aging celebrities, combining several movies to one, and many others.
 * Reality manga - Alter photos of real people (celebrities are popular) so that they look like Japanese anime drawings come to life.
 * Chimaera – Create a new animal by mating three or four other animals to one.
 * Invisible world - Take any object or person in an image and make it invisible using photoshop. No indication or outline of the object/animal/person should be seen, except through its function/interaction with other objects and/or people in the image. Some images, are based in the 1897 H. G. Wells science-fiction novella, The Invisible Man.
 * If Goths ruled – Show what the world would look like if Goths ruled it.

Photoshop contests were the main attraction of Worth1000, but it also had a variety of contests for photography, writing, illustration, and a multimedia. Along with the regular contests, members of Worth1000 could challenge each other in head-to-head competitions as well.

Forums
The Worth1000 site had a large community as well as a selection of forums. The forums were a place for general discussions and humor, and questions and answers regarding techniques for the various types of contests. Due to the many active admins and a word-filter that monitored the forums, a high level of troll control existed.

Intramural competitors
Similar sites have competed in an intramural tournament with Worth1000.com, including:
 * Something Awful's Photoshop Phriday
 * Fark

Shutdown and later history
On August 12, 2013, Worth1000's founder, Avi Muchnick, announced in the community forums that Worth1000 would be closed and converted into a static museum. The final contest was scheduled to end on the midnight changeover (Worth time) of September 29/30.

Worth1000 was scheduled to close at midnight on 30 September 2013, but problems with the transfer of the site to the Static Museum status meant that it stayed open for a further 24 hours. However, once that period had passed users were greeted with a single page with the message that the site was now closed and would resurface within the next few days as a museum. However, after a brief hiatus, Muchnick announced via a cryptic 1 Corinthians 15:4 message and an image from Worth's archives of the Turin Shroud. Posted to Worth's 'refugee' website communities on Google+ and Reddit, former users found that the site had been sold to Emerge Media and would re-open soon.

Worth1000 returned to the version of the site that existed in the week before the shutdown, one week after the instigation of the museum. Over the following months, the new team transferred the site to new servers. However, ongoing technical issues and with declining popularity and an alienated user base, the new owners announced the intention to rebrand, redesign and invigorate the site. Contests were hosted to create logos for the new site, and admin level users were invited into discussions on the redesign.

In June 2014, graphic design crowdsourcing company DesignCrowd announced that it had acquired Worth1000 for an undisclosed amount. DesignCrowd announced its intent to port all user accounts and artistic content to DesignCrowd servers, while attempting to keep the user experience unchanged. The company announced the acquisition would help "create a bigger and better marketplace for freelance designers". The transfer, however, was repeatedly delayed and by the end of 2015 had not been completed. Member frustration was exacerbated by the decision that Worth1000 members not wishing to become DesignCrowd members, would have to “opt out” of the migration, rather than “opt in".

Worth1000 was no longer available online on February 26, 2016.

title: Worth1000


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Talk:Crash Bandicoot (disambiguation)

Fixing
'''someone messed up this article. can anyone fix it?'''

I'll try.

Needs opposing points of view
This article is seriously biased. What about the views of Mario or Sonic, regarding their financial nemesis, Crash? Frankly, a lack of critical commentary vis-a-vis Crash's relationship with Spyro the Dragan (aka the Ms. Pac Man affair) needs to be addressed... ;-) RK 20:50, Mar 13, 2005 (UTC) Coco bandicoot is his sister. bandicoots are not incest. you sicko! Winston
 * I take your comment (along with the wink ;-) ) to be in jest. Spyro the Dragon may actually be a big fan of Crash, but in my opinion, Coco Bandicoot is his biggest fan, and the two may get married in a future game. ;-) Gbeeker 21:34, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Yeah! Coco should go out with crunch ( see Crunch bandicoot discussion board 4 my view)Coco 00:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

Bonus Wave
I'm not sure about the skull mentioned in the article, but I do know that there is a bonus screen available in some levels. This is a distinctly different gameplay (vertical-scrolling rather than forward-scrolling). And if you die on the bonus, you don't actually lose a life. When I have more time, I'll try to edit this in. Gbeeker 21:36, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I believe you're referring to the bonus levels in Crash Bandicoot. Some sequels feature a skull platform. -- MIT Trekkie 22:11, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

What are you saying? Coco is Crash's sister, and the only reason she was introduced was because Naughty Dog wrote Tawna out of the series because of her exaggerated sex appeal. Then she was brought back in Crash Boom Bang! because they needed another girl. Coco 00:12, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

I think we should talk about the Naughty Dog to Universal switch and Crash's relations with Spyro in the article. I hate Spyro

Characters
Why does this article not have a basic list of the main characters perhaps with short descriptions? I would make one but i dont know enough of the characters. I just feel like a character list is a good thing to have in an article about a game series.

I noticed that so I reorganised the bosses section into the characters section.Michael Mad 11:04, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

tom tucker
on famly guy he says eat my dust crash bandicoot

Developer Discussion
I have been told that the guy on the left is andy gavin the main developer of naughty dog. So it has now been added. :) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Wallace10 (talk • contribs) 14:44, 1 March 2007 (UTC).

OH GET A LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Coco 02:30, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

Rating
I just wanted to say that I have a special edition of the game that is rated T, and so does my friend. I added that special editions (which aren't currently available BTW) are rated T.

One thing you should do is sign your comments (or whatever they're called). If you are still here, can you or your friend get a photo of this special edition?? --Zoton2 21:34, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

VG assessment
This is in regards to the request at the VG Assessment page. I'm rating this article as Start-class, Low-importance. Here are a few tips to improve it!

From the top, section by section.

Lead- way too short, has a good sentence about the game, then some trivia.

Gameplay- oddly enough, it never describes the gameplay, just some OR descriptions of bosses, and some crufty trivia.

Setting- This really describes nothing about the setting. Tell me what the "HUB" is, besides that I can go forwards, but sometimes sideways.

Story- I suppose it covers the story, but this is really badly written. I'd have to say that rather than try to revise it, just scrap it and start over. It's not very long anyways.

Characters- Covert list to prose

Reviews- rename to reception, turn the list into a table, and then write a reception section, where you say what the reviewers said about the game, not just the scores they gave.

Trivia- Remove. Trivia sections should never be in an article- if it's trivial, it shouldn't be included- but these are especially non-noteworthy things.

References- These are needed to prove that what the article is saying is true, as the reader does not know the editors and cannot be expected to take their words on faith. You have none right now. Get some.

Overall- I know that I'm being pretty harsh on this. I don't know what it is about Crash Bandicoot articles, but they somehow attract really bad writing and poorly laid-out articles. Everything here is perfectly fixable, so don't despair. Please see the various VG Featured and Good Articles for ideas as to how to shape this article. --PresN 04:46, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I've put some sources up on the charcters section, though all are to sites, but I should have others soon enough. I've rewritten the story section, though I'm not so sure to whether or not I've done a very good job. I've removed the trivia section, expanded the lead by writing about the emulation of the game for the PlayStation Portable and PlayStation 3, and have edited the gameplay section. I have removed that information about the HUB in the setting sections. I've also written a paragraph(albeit, fairly small one) for the reception. Soon, I should get around to putting in more references, as well as putting all review scores into a table and stating the game's sales, that is if I can find how much it sold. Michael Mad 22:37, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, I've finally turned the scores section into the reviews section, turning it into a table as you said I should, with that being part of the reception section. I've edited that covert list into a paragraph, and put it and the story section as sub-sections in a new plot section. I've added references to pretty much all sections, and have created a legacy section, which briefly dicsusses the game's sequels and the franchise's commercial success. I have also seperated the links into official, reviews and other. Michael Mad 17:05, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

VG assessment 2
It's me again, ironically. You've implemented all I've said last time, so thank you! I'm bumping this up to B-class. I'm also changing my mind and making this Mid-importance, it did start off a major series, after all. To improve it further, I'd recommend switching setting and gameplay, and maybe expanding setting with a short description of what the levels are like. You also still need more references, mainly in the legacy section, but gameplay could use a few. Remember, references aren't just for looking for more information, they're also to prove that you (or some other editor) aren't making stuff up- I've never played this game, but in a near-perfect article I wouldn't have to take anything on faith. I recommend submitting this to peer review for further comment. --PresN 00:37, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the positive assessment. I will implement what you asked for into the article. Michael Mad 09:37, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

N. Brio
How do you beat N. Brio? I've gotten to the part where he becomes the huge monster and runs toward you, but that is as far as I got. Mooapau  Talk to Me 18:43, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

A block will fall from the ceiling. Jump onto it and when Brio gets close to you jump on his head to hurt him. Repeat. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.131.183.162 (talk) 22:02, 4 September 2007 (UTC)

I am not trying to be rude but this is not the place for these kinds of questiond go see a FAQ or a guide but I also used to do exactly what you just did and I want to know if this whole site can forgive me for my bad deeds —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.89.137.35 (talk) 03:37, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Demo disc
My copy (PAL, Scandinavian version) came with a demo disc that contains demos for 1996 autumn/christmas releases. Is this worth mention in the article? --Mika1h 19:42, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

No. Unless any demos actually existed on the same disc as Crash Bandicoot, it wouldn't be notable. Michael Mad 12:10, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Move?
I think this should be moved to Crash Bandicoot (game) with the disaugmbition being simply "Crash Bandicoot". The title of the page could be misleading... --YowuzaZXWolfie (talk) 17:48, 20 August 2008 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Crash Bandicoot (series) which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RM bot 12:45, 5 January 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Crash Bandicoot (disambiguation)


text:
Talk:Quake II

Mod list
Although it's understood here that a mod list is not kept prominent as it's not "required" information, as someone stated below the number of mods for Quake II (both known and unknown) kind of stand out as it seems to be the highest number of mods in any game to date. I can dispute this claim if necessary and I haven't put anything in the article, but does anyone else think it's worth noting? If it's not worth noting, then someone (anyone interested?) should start a place on a site with a possible history of Quake mods; web archive of PlanetQuake and Blues News' news archive can probably be the best places to search, but I do think that Quake II deserves it's place in FPS gaming as the game whose mod count go off the charts. Paril (talk) 17:58, 22 October 2009 (UTC)

Latest Version
Am I blind? I do not see version 3.21 on id Software's FTP, at least not in ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/quake2/source/. -- Darklock 12:53, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * 3.20 is the last proper version. I remember reading somewhere that the only real difference with 3.21 is that there is some change (possibly a re-organisation?) to make it compile better for Linux.--Drat (Talk) 12:58, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Come on, you can read it in this article, that does not matter though. Whatever, I found it: ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/source/q2source-3.21.zip. -- Darklock 13:03, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Whoops. I haven't really read this article recently. I mostly keep it on my watchlist to watch for linkspam.--Drat (Talk) 14:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I found this note that suggests that version 3.21 was not just a repackaging:. Anyone with more insight? -- Darklock 16:55, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
 * This is correct, the GL for Linux was rewritten quite significantly in 3.21 and the Windows GL renderer was also improved to use a different multitexturing technique. However the engine itself (not the renderers) remains mostly (completely?) unchanged from 3.20. R1CH 09:26, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

Mod notes
I think two elements could be usefully exapnded upon in this article.

1. Modding in general: While Quake 1 was the game that many think of as really cracking open the mod element of FPS games (with perhaps Team Fortress being the best example of this), Quake 2 was where mod making exploded. There was simply an insane number of very high quality mods made for Quake 2, to an extent that really hit critical mass, as it were. If memory serves me correctly, I recall Activision releasing a commerical CD of ten or so of the most popular Q2 mods.
 * It's titled Quake II Netpack 1: Extremeties --Hardgoodbye 00:29, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Where later games such as Halflife had one mod which acted as a lightning rod for mod visibility (TF again being example of this in Quake 1), the very number of excellent mods made for Quake 2 almost created a scenario where the incredible variety obscured itself.

It would be nice to see an addition to the article that explores this aspect of Quake 2.

2. Loki's Minions CTF: I mention this more as a side note. LMCTF was one of the major CTF mods for Quake 2 - to such an extent that I feel comfortable saying that many people pretty much thought of LMCTF when thinking of CTF and Quake 2. The LMCTF world was large and vibrant, and worthy of mention. (anon., Sept 30, 2005)

 * I disagree... standard ctf (with the server side lfire ctf mod) is the only one still being played to any extent today, and in q2's prime I would say it was far more heavily played than loki's minions. User:Rsciaccio

 * I also disagree. Say CTF to me and my circle of friends and we think of CTF (Threewave's version), and never LMCTF. SJ2571 (talk) 04:50, 19 July 2009 (UTC)

Alternative titles
Does anyone know what the alternative titles for Quake II were? Paul Jaquays says they were considering a number of other, non-Quake titles for the game. --hgb
 * Nope, that entire section's pretty much all I recall getting from him. Wish we DID know some of the alternate names, though; that'd be a great addition to the article. --Shadow Hog 23:35, 27 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Oh well. I'm compeltely fascinated by such things. --Hardgoodbye 00:29, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

Quake2Max and modified engines
Is Quake2Max still the most prominent engine modification? These days it seems EGL, AprQ2 (at least in Europe scene), NoCheat and R1Q2 are the most popular clients. It would be nice to know more about the differences in some of these new clients but they wouldn't really deserve a new page each. Would a new section be worthwhile? 65.75.74.189 08:57, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 * From the various Q2 servers I admin, the most common clients are the original 3.20, R1Q2 and EGL, although this is a somewhat biased selection as I encourage everyone to use R1Q2 or EGL over the buggy and insecure 3.20 :). I haven't seen a Quake2Max user for a long time. I think a small section with the various modified clients would be a nice thing to have, the less people using the official clients the better due to the security risks associated with such. R1CH 09:29, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

7/30/2007 (Anonymous): To Play Quake 2 online, most people download a client called TheAllSeeingEye (www.allseingeye.com)which lets people find games based on what they want to play. Believe it or not there are still a ton of people who play Quake 2 to this very day, myself included.

Console Commands
Does anyone else think this seems rather out of place here? Perhaps an external link to the console commands page would be better, and if this section stays it should be cleaned up somewhat. 24.244.188.83 07:04, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 * My thoughts exactly. I'm going to be bold and delete it. I have a link to a site with commands.--Drat (Talk) 07:08, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

N64 port
In the article we can read "Ports of Quake II were released in 1999 on the Nintendo 64 (ported by Raster Productions L.L.C. )"... But looking at Rogue Entertainment's website, we can read
 * "1999: Quake II: Nintendo 64 was released in the second quarter of 1999. As with our previous products it has garnered critical praise and positive attention upon its release. It has been dubbed "Better than the original."

What is the source for this part of the article ? -Ash_Crow 03:14, 19 July 2006 (UTC)

Banned?
This is in a list of banned games but it does not state in the article when or why it got banned? --Jimmy93211 15:15, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Bitterman's story
For the sake of completeness, shouldn't be the continuation of bitterman's story in Quake III Arena be included? The manual clearly states, that Bitterman is a Strogg War veteran, who was subject to horrible experimentation by the Strogg.--Mikael GRizzly 22:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Well every member of Quake III Arena was plucked from their respective timeframes, but only Xaero has a character ending. In fact, Xaero is the only one to have a story in Q3! What i'm saying is that nothing is added to the story, and if it is, I don't think of it as canon.

--JaffaCakeLover 01:13, 19 October 2006 (GMT)
 * I see your point, but I believe that what is revealed in Quake III Arena is a pretty big hint at what happened to our marine. Mikael GRizzly 14:45, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

Missions section - cleanup
Does the section on the levels of the PC version really need cleaning up now? It was in a pretty rough shape once but a number of editors have cast their eyes over it. I might remove the tag. Makron1n 15:08, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

BFG
It's a given that the BFG stands for "Big Fucking Gun" and that the "Big, uh, Freakin' Gun" quip in the Quake 2 manual is just for humour. The BFG article also states that the gun's called the "Big Fucking Gun", so I've changed it back to that. Feel free to dispute. Makron1n 16:04, 22 September 2006 (UTC)

Rob Zombie's Quake II theme
Could somebody find me a source on this, and exactly what track he made? Because I've heard rumors but never really find concrete proof. --TonicBH 07:38, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I've heard conflicting reports that it was Main Theme or Operation Overlord. Blah. 72.72.245.144 03:46, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Rob Zombie did the music during the opening cinematics, I heard? BTW: When I ripped the tracks recently, it says that the track "Climb" (track 9 (not including the data track)) was made by Jer Sypult? What music did Bill Brown do? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Phoenixdolphin (talk • contribs) 11:58, 26 August 2008 (UTC)

Game mods and modified engines
I removed these two sections from the (still rather long) External links. Those that have been deemed notable enough for a Wikipedia entry of their own I added under expansions and modifications. A linklist of mods is out of place in Wikipedia.—Graf Bobby 19:08, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Article Title
Is everyone aware that because of the stupid title of this article (Quake EyeEye) searching Wikipedia for "Quake 2" puts it half-way down the list of results? Hemebond 01:38, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Well Quake II is the name on the box...--Drat (Talk) 02:16, 4 October 2007 (UTC)
 * That's clearly a typographical design decision. Should Wikipedia articles not be in proper English and written to help searching of content? Hemebond 09:07, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * It should, above all, be accurate. The title of the game is Quake II, not Quake 2. Xihr 22:49, 5 October 2007 (UTC)
 * Searching for Quake 2 immediately redirects me to the proper Quake II article, so what exactly is the point? --Nameless Voice 01:54, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Tastyspleen.net
I really think a lot of people interested in playing Quake 2 today would find it useful to have some mention of tastyspleen.net in this article because it's pretty much the only place you can find a game these days. Someone else clearly agrees because they tried to put a link to it at the bottom of the article (but it was removed). I'm not saying we should just put it back because that's probably against wikipedia's rules but I think it would be good to have some kind of mention of it somewhere because it would help a lot of people who enjoy the game. Ben 2082 (talk) 04:32, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Someone being patriotic?
Is this really necessary: "is an AMERICAN first person shooter computer game"? I mean, what does 'American' add here? --DanielPharos (talk) 14:31, 10 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I've removed it from the lead, as it's immaterial to the game what country what country it was developed in.--Drat (Talk) 03:01, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Exactly what I was thinking. Thanks! --DanielPharos (talk) 09:24, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
 * It's an American developed game, and other nationalities are often mentioned (ie. S.T.A.L.K.E.R. lists the nationality of its devs (Ukraine). It's okay to say "American developer iD Software". JAF1970 (talk) 22:25, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

 * On an idealistic level every article should list the country of origin of a certain media, or not list it at all outside the infoboxes (perhaps); pragmatically, en.wikipedia.org defaults to the USA rather than the English language, and we have to deal with things as they are, rather than as we might wish them to be. -Ashley Pomeroy (talk) 16:30, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

 * Could you direct me to the Wikipedia page where it says that? I'm curious as to what the rationale is for that policy.--24.60.220.148 (talk) 15:55, 10 August 2010 (UTC)

Gloom
The Gloom mod is a notable mod (ie. Aliens: Colonial Marines may be using it.) JAF1970 (talk) 22:26, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Jer Sypult
Who is this guy? I can't find any information on him. Where is the information that he did track 9 from? - SoulSkorpion (talk) 12:42, 14 September 2008 (UTC)
 * Related question: Who is Michael Massay? Does he deserve a WP article? 2fort5r (talk) 14:47, 23 October 2009 (UTC)

The DS Port
Is there any particular reason why the Nintendo DS port HP is in the External links without mentioning it at all in the article? 125.236.132.248 (talk) 09:57, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

 * Because someone added it inappropriately to plug it, presumably. Xihr  05:16, 22 November 2009 (UTC)

Broken reference
Make of this what you will; the very first reference link is broken. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.13.203.182 (talk) 20:24, 25 December 2009 (UTC)

Quake 2 Mission packs
A section needs to be added on both the Quake 2 mission packs, which include new enemies, weapons and levels (I think)

see  —Preceding unsigned comment added by Telewatho (talk • contribs) 16:27, 23 January 2010 (UTC)

Google's HTML5 port
As seen here this is probably quite noteworthy for the game, but where should it be put? Tazz (talk) 05:14, 3 April 2010 (UTC)
 * to the "8.1.6 Jake2" - port since it based on this port. by the way: what are these strange brackets with numbers in? should this be references?  mabdul 22:31, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Soundtrack
I'm being bold and making a new section for this, as the Rob Zombie's Quake II theme section is a bit outdated. To answer most of your questions;

There is no Main Theme for Quake II. Everyone who thought there was might've listened to a shorter version of Stealth Frag, which was from Quake II Mission Pack -- The Reckoning (It might've been from Ground Zero) and composed by Sonic Mayhem.

Supposedly, Sonic Mayhem did the id Logo sound effect. They also did the music for the two main Quake II Mission Packs, Ground Zero and the Reckoning.

Bill Brown composed the background music in intro.cin, end.cin, and Showdown.

Supposedly, ntro.cin was composed by both Bill Brown and Rob Zombie.

Supposedly, the Nintendo 64 version's Intro, Strogg Outpost, and Stat Menu was composed by id Software.

Jer Sypult (god5gif7 or somesuch) composed Climb.

All other unmentioned tracks were composed by Sonic Mayhem.

When I find my sources (again), I will make an appropriate section for this topic. MissingNoLLL (talk) 00:28, 26 October 2010 (UTC)

Found the website, here; http://www.sonicmayhem.com/credits.php. But it has download links to the music. Would it still be okay to use this reference? MissingNoLLL (talk) 03:02, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Id vs. id
Id Software's logo is rendered as "id", but in all legal writings the company refers to itself as "Id Software". Accordingly, I've updated the article to show this style.—QuicksilverT @ 21:06, 28 January 2011 (UTC)

GA
I think it's time.184.44.131.140 (talk) 19:37, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * No, it severely lacks sources for a start.  Я ehevkor ✉  19:50, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Dammit I'm such a fail!184.44.131.140 (talk) 19:54, 10 January 2012 (UTC)
 * Your IP range has also been blocked for trolling and leaving your mouse droppings all over other users' talk pages, such as mine. Get lost. — QuicksilverT @ 22:56, 10 January 2012 (UTC)

The Makrons name
Was the name Makron altered from The Mekon from Dan Dare — Preceding unsigned comment added by Custard mustard sandwich (talk • contribs) 18:59, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

Developed in Belgium?
I'm not really knowledgeable about this, but I am from Belgium, and I don't think this game was developed here. Yet, it sits in the "games developed in Belgium" category, with no mention whatsoever in the article itself. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Josdebosduif (talk • contribs) 14:24, 8 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The category was added because the game was ported to Amiga by a Belgian company, though I don't know if that qualifies for including the category.--Drat (Talk) 15:56, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

Game title
On the 15th anniversary of Quake II, Bethesda released a few little tidbits of information about Quake II. It is mentioned that the name came about not because they couldn't get any other names, - in fact the working title was WOR - but because they decided the game felt more like a sequel to Quake rather than a new IP. Can we change the article to reflect that? Source: http://www.bethblog.com/2012/12/06/happy-15th-quake-ii/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Stickolia (talk • contribs) 07:14, 3 August 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added tag to http://www.vertigosoftware.com/Quake2.htm
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 * Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20060315212448/http://www.idsoftware.com/games/quake/quake2/ to http://www.idsoftware.com/games/quake/quake2
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Source

 * https://web.archive.org/web/19970605102808/http://www.cdmag.com:80/news/0531971.html
 * https://web.archive.org/web/19970605150634/http://www.next-generation.com:80/news/052497a.chtml
 * https://web.archive.org/web/19970605150208/http://www.next-generation.com:80/news/053097j.chtml
 * https://web.archive.org/web/19980204091336/http://www.next-generation.com:80/news/120297a.chtml
 * http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/GD_Mag_Archives/GDM_January_1998.pdf
 * http://twvideo01.ubm-us.net/o1/vault/GD_Mag_Archives/GDM_February_1998.pdf

Infobox image (box art)
one user has uploaded new images into the all Quake infobox-image pages:

 * File:Quake1cover.jpg
 * File:Quake2box.jpg
 * File:Quake4box.jpg

IMO they look awful, dark and bad (except the last one), so I am in favor of reverting them to the old images, does anyone else support this? -- FMM-1992 (talk) 02:53, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * Similar to my comment at Q1; the new version has the original colors. The image is not scanned (and therefore does not contain huge scratches like the old one), it comes directly from what Bethesda uploaded to Steam. IceWelder  [ ✉ ] 05:31, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

 * I really don't get why the game's Steam cover art should be used while it was originally released in the 1990s? please read Manual of Style/Video games: FMM-1992 (talk) 07:09, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * The Steam version is the same as the original, simply with higher quality, no scratches, no incorrect colors, and no scanning artifacts. IceWelder  [ ✉ ] 09:31, 18 September 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Quake II


text:
User talk:Ramyssysix

Welcome
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~ ~ ~. Four tildes (~ ~ ) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --Whosyourjudas (talk) 01:53, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
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Golra Sharif
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File source problem with File:Gulshan-e-Iqbal.jpg
Thanks for uploading File:Gulshan-e-Iqbal.jpg. I noticed that the file's description page currently doesn't specify who created the content, so the copyright status is unclear. If you did not create this file yourself, you will need to specify the owner of the copyright. If you obtained it from a website, then a link to the website from which it was taken, together with a restatement of that website's terms of use of its content, is usually sufficient information. However, if the copyright holder is different from the website's publisher, their copyright should also be acknowledged.

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title: User talk:Ramyssysix


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User talk:Bbrandyn

Welcome
Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~ ~ ~. Four tildes (~ ~ ) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! --Whosyourjudas (talk) 01:53, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
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Unreferenced BLPs
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Thanks!--DASHBot (talk) 05:08, 17 January 2010 (UTC)
 * 1) Sid Mark -

Speedy deletion nomination of Dave Spadaro

A tag has been placed on Dave Spadaro requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done under section A7 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because the article appears to be about a person or group of people, but it does not credibly indicate how or why the subject is important or significant: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, such articles may be deleted at any time. Please read more about what is generally accepted as notable.

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title: User talk:Bbrandyn


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Leopold Macaulay

Leopold Macaulay (November 25, 1887 – December 24, 1979) was a Canadian politician and lawyer, born in Peterborough, Ontario.

Macaulay was a Conservative member of the Legislative Assembly of Ontario. He was first elected as Member of the Legislative Assembly (MLA) for the Toronto area riding of York South in 1926. He was brought into the cabinet as Provincial Secretary and Registrar in September 1930 in the last few weeks of the administration of Ontario Premier George Howard Ferguson. He was retained in that position when Ferguson's successor, George Henry formed his cabinet in December.

Macaulay went on to serve as Minister of Highways from 1931 to 1934 and also Minister of Public Works for six months before the defeat of the Henry government by Mitchell Hepburn's Ontario Liberal Party in the 1934 Ontario election.

Macaulay kept his seat through the election and, in 1936, he was a candidate in the Ontario Conservative leadership convention placing fourth. He remained in the legislature until losing his seat in the 1943 Ontario election to Ontario Co-operative Commonwealth Federation leader Ted Jolliffe.

He also served on the Board of Regents of Victoria University, University of Toronto from 1932 to 1972, serving as chair from 1942 to 1951.

title: Leopold Macaulay


text:
Talk:Suicide/Archive 1

Initial Discussion
There's a book about suicide where the author argues that there's nothing wrong with it and that it may be a perfectly rational choice; the author later committed suicide. Does anybody remember the title/author? --AxelBoldt

 * There are a number of people who have espoused this viewpoint and certainly in many non-Christian traditions e.g. Japanese, Celtic and Norse traditions, suicide was/is seen as an honorable or rational act. A book which explores the inexorable logic of suicide within a poetic context which takes this general line is Al Alvarez's The Savage God, though I think Al is choosing to commit suicide at the poker table. user:sjc

This article needs statistics of suicide in the world Joao Why? sjc Because Wikipedia should be a monstrous universal collection of all the knowlege that exists, even that. -- Geronimo Jones

I removed this statement:
 *  In some hilarious cases, the punishment for suicide is death.

First of all, I wouldn't call it "hilarious", second I want some evidence. AxelBoldt
 * Perhaps a better sentence would have been, "Ironically, in some cases, the punishment in some jurisdictions has been death."

 * Daniel C. Boyer

Is it just me, or is the christian view slightly biased? I'd be surprised to discover that all christians think like that... -Martin

I could not verify this
 * Ironically, the punishment for attempted suicide in some jurisdictions has been death. The United Kingdom abolished this punishment in 1961.

Does anybody have any references? AxelBoldt 04:43 Jan 7, 2003 (UTC)

 * refs:   -Martin

"... the generalized suicide rate among parasuicides is a hundred times higher than that of the population at large."

Parasuicide is the act not the person. Is there some way of rephrasing this? It grates but I can't think of a better way of expressing it. sannse 21:56 Jan 22, 2003 (UTC)

 * The motivation is a desire for respite and to communicate feelings with "grand gesture". However parasuicide cannot be dismissed; almost half of suicides are preceded by a parasuicide and the generalized suicide rate among parasuicides is a hundred times higher than that of the population at large.

 * I think the first sentence, The motivation ..., should be reworked a bit and then used as a concluding sentence of the preceding paragraph. The remaining sentence can be reworked and stand on their own in a separate paragraph. One can retain a NPOV yet punch up the statement by avoiding bland terms such as "suicide rate" and "population."

 * Something simple like this could work:

 * "Nearly half of suicides are preceded by a parasuicide. Those with a history of parasuicide are 100 times more likely to finally end their own lives."

 * I have only an ordinary understanding of this subject, so I can't attest to the veracity of the claims. Thanks for disambiguating links in two articles I contributed.-- Rethunk

 * I've changed the first sentence slightly and modified the second as you suggest (I think your version works well). I used the word "eventually" rather than "finally", maybe you could change that if you think it doesn't work.

 * I've also taken out the sentence "Few attempted suicides are actually trying to achieve suicide." Attempted suicide is always an attempt at suicide, that's why the term parasuicide is used instead - to include self-harm not intended to lead to death.

 * As far as I can tell, the "100 times more likely" figure comes from a paper in the British Journal of Psychiatry (Kreitman N, Foster J - 1991).  Although that actually says that those with a history of parasuicide are 100 times more likely to kill themselves than the general population "in the following 12-month period".  But another study I found suggested this trend continues long term, so I don't think the sentence needs qualifying (the ref for the second paper is BMJ. 2002 Nov 16;325(7373):1125-6. )

 * I don't have any special knowledge of the subject either, just what I have read in attempts to understand my own psychological condition.

 * Thanks for your help - sannse

Rather than use the term "attempted suicide" the neologism parasuicide is more correct.

Is there a reference for this? Indeed, this neologism does not appear in the OED or in a typical American dictionary (The American Heritage Dictionary). Is this term generally accepted by those in the medical field? I believe a reference to a medical text would be helpful here.

There are many more parasuicides than suicides.

According to current research, what is the ratio? -- Rethunk

 * This is certainly a term I've heard often in this context. Particularly in reading about depression and other psychiatric conditions.  It's also used in many papers discussing attempted suicide and self-harm.  A quick PubMed search gave 345 references for "parasuicide".  I don't know enough about medical texts to know what the best reference would be but I think the term is well enough established in the field to stand alone.

 * In 2000 in the US the ratio of parrasuicides to suicides was about 25:1 according to figures from the American Association of Suicidology (see the first set of statistics at http://www.suicidology.org/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=21)

 * An older WHO report, "The Epidemiology of Suicidal Behaviour" said: "The incidence of parasuicide is 10 to 20 times higher than that of completed suicide" (http://www.cicred.ined.fr/rdr/rdr_a/revues/revue69-70/77-69-70_a.html) - sannse

how about:

There are many more parasuicides (attempted suicides) than suicides.

then talk about ratios and give all the cites on the parasuicide page --- williamv1138

 * "Parasuicide" is a redirect page at the moment, I think it should stay that way for now unless someone wants to write a significant article on it (which would be good to have eventually). The section in this article should work for now I think. -- sannse

It's not obvious to me what 'a post-death oversight' is - could someone clarify please? -- S

 * The sentence doesn't make sense to me either. I've changed the paragraph, for reference it was:

 * On an individual level the meaning of suicide varies across a range of common themes. Simply seeking an end is uncommon. Stated reasons include concepts such as a reunion with the dead (bereavement is a additional factor in some suicides), a post-death oversight, or a desire to cause pain through causing remorse or grief. Multiple motives are common.

 * I replaced 'post-death oversight' with 'a need for change from an unbearable situation'

 * Perhaps someone who understands can clarify 'post-death oversight' and replace it if necessary -- sannse 10:03 Apr 6, 2003 (UTC)

Thanks. I don't know if it's the same, but that makes a lot more sense (and I was wondering why this `obvious' reason wasn't mentioned). -- S

 * Speculating wildly, "post-death oversight" might be the ability, claimed in some religions, of the dead to "look down" on the Earth and watch it. Martin

I think there are 2 interesting questions about suicide - whether it is immoral, and whether it is irrational. This article seems to be focusing on the first at the moment. Perhaps I'll add something on the latter debate if I can... --Evercat

Am I the only one who feels like this article practically comes across as being pro-suicide?

 * Does it? I thought it was very anti- till I added the pro-choice argument. Evercat 19:52 10 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I removed a how-to link, I think this needs discussion before it is included. We have a pro-choice link, I feel that's enough. I'm uncomfortable about suicide instructions being included in the article, even just as a link. -- sannse 16:39, 9 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * well it's hardly rocket science! -- Tarquin 16:44, 9 Aug 2003 (UTC)

 * True. I'm not saying "hide all the information - then no one will know how to do it ", I'm just not convinced that it is an appropriate link for the article.  On the other hand I have a lot of POV issues here - so don't feel qualified for any real decisions. -- sannse 01:56, 10 Aug 2003 (UTC)

Which states is it illeagal, and where was this information found? Has anyone found a reference? I cannot

 * - Catskull

I just walked past this link .. I think the view of gender / sexuality relation in general should be part of the article as sexuality is a major human drive / regulation form. --Ebricca 10:00, 12 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Editing Princess Diana, I've added this bit of research:

 * During the four weeks following her funeral, the overall suicide rate in England and Wales rose by 17%, compared with the average reported for that period in the four previous years. Researchers suggest that this was caused by the 'identification' effect, as the greatest increase in people taking their own lives was in people most similar to Diana: women aged 25 to 44, whose suicide rate increased by over 45%. (Source:, British Journal of Psychiatry 2000;177:469-72)

I intended to wikify 'identification', but I can't find a page explaining this effect. (The effect is: when someone famous kills themselves, members of the public most similar to the celebrity - in age, gender, etc - show an increased tendency to suicide).

But I can't find anything on wikipedia - identification is about a different meaning.

I thought that maybe it was listed under a technical term - anyone got any ideas?

If it's not in Wikipedia already, perhaps it would make a useful addition to the suicide article.

Best, --257.47b.9½.-19 18:20, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

The closest thing I can think of are Copycat suicides, which are not at all the same thing. Morwen 18:22, Mar 24, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks Morwen! That does look like the same thing to me - or at least, it'll do for the moment. Best, --257.47b.9½.-19 18:32, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Although on further thought I see what you mean about it not being the same thing - since she didn't actually kill herself. Some parasuicides earlier though. --257.47b.9½.-19 18:36, 24 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Honestly, I don't know what I was thinking. Well, OK, I do. I was thinking about how I had no place I felt I belonged; how no matter where I went, there were people there that already knew each other, that had history together. And I didn't.

So, I typed delete, twice, and my character was no more.

You might think it sounds silly to get upset over deleting a character on a MUD, unless perhaps you've had the good fortune to play one that was more community than game, where your main character is more than just a character, it's you. (Actual role-playing can hinder this experience because it dissociates you somewhat, you're playing make-believe.)

Deleting such a character is like deleting a part of yourself. I cried.

I'm not sure what I'd have done later if I hadn't received an enormous influx of e-mail and ICQ messages. I had to turn my speakers off to better wallow in my grief without the self-pity-inhibiting, silly 'uh-oh' sounds. Later on, I would be touched by the number of people who cared, who understood that there was more to 'delete' than a pfile.

Of course, if I was honest with myself, I'd admit that that was what I wanted:

Attention! Hey, look at me, I'm making an ass of myself because I'm depressed! Prove to me that you care? Please?

After a while, I turned my speakers back on and let myself be talked into coming back to life. I even got my character undeleted. Before you know it, things were just about back to normal. My temporary lapse in judgement was forgiven, and I even started to feel better about myself. That place I had wanted, where I had history, where I was a part of the "old school" club, was right there all the time. I had let some of the players' shared experiences undermine my own feeling of belonging.

The point I'm working towards is this: there is no undelete in real life.

 * "the threat of widespread war is always associated with a steep fall in suicides" (emphasis mine)

seems a bit odd. any references? Goodralph 00:45, 6 Apr 2004 (UTC)
 * Rephrased - it goes down during wartime, not due to the 'threat' of war. See for example.

It's becoming seen as good practice (some might call it unnecessary political correctness, though I disagree) to avoid using the phrase "commit suicide". This is on the grounds that it puts suicide on a par with criminal acts - you commit murder, commit rape, etc. There are any number of other ways it can be put - take one's own life, die by suicide, etc. This is recommended by, for example, Samaritans. I'm proposing to edit this article to avoid using the phrase, "commit suicide", except where (a) it's specifically used in relation to suicide as a criminal act, or an act condemned or forbidden by religion, or (b) it would make the language unwieldy or awkward. What does anyone reckon? --ALargeElk 11:20, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

 * On the "be bold" principle I decided just to go ahead and do this, but if anyone seriously disagrees, please feel free to change it back and we'll talk it out here. --ALargeElk 11:53, 4 May 2004 (UTC)

 * It has been re-reverted by an anonymous user... Goodralph 05:48, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * I think it was just an attempt to avoid the horribly clunky use of "to suicide" as a verb. I've rephrased it all a bit, and also changed some sections that said things like, "men kill themselves four times more often than women". Er, no, they don't. Each of them only does it once. What was meant, and what it now says, is that the suicide rate among men is four times higher than among women.--   ALargeElk | Talk 09:30, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

I removed this section:

 * If You are Considering Suicide, or Know Someone Who Is

 * - In the event that you are seriously considering suicide, or know someone who is, it is important that you seek help right away. This is especially true if the means (weapons, drugs, or other methods) are available, or if a detailed plan is in place.

 * - Having suicidal desires does not mean that you or the other person actually wants to die. Often times, suicide is seen as a way of releiving pain, or as an only solution to a problem. Doctors and other professionals can help.

 * - If you or the other person is serious about suicide, you or the other person should go to the nearest Emergency Room, or call 911 immediately. Severe suicidal ideation is a condition that requires immeidate emergency medical treatment.

To me, it doesn't seem to fit - the "self-help" tone is all wrong for Wikipedia. Perhaps it could be rewritten into something more encyclopaedic, but I'm not sure how. --ALargeElk 08:42, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

I have rewritten that section from a different POV, to be more factual in tone, whilst keeping the essential content. -- The Anome 08:53, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I've cut it a bit and moved it as a subsection of suicide prevention. --ALargeElk 09:02, 6 May 2004 (UTC)

The medical tone is also a bit weird. It is true that suicide is claimed as a medical problem by some, but it is approached from a number of other angles as well---it might be a philosophical issue, or a religious issue, or some other issue. This shouldn't read like a medical handbook, and section titles like "epedemiology" are inappropriate, because they presuppose that suicide is a disease of sorts, which is an open question according to many philosophers. --Delirium 09:09, May 6, 2004 (UTC)

 * To motivate my viewpoint on this: this article ought to be as acceptable to a philosopher as to a psychologist. Right now it is not using terminology that philosophers use (certainly nothing Albert Camus would have used), but almost exclusively medical jargon, which isn't really appropriate for a general encyclopedia, unless that were moved to something like Medical views of suicide. --Delirium 09:15, May 6, 2004 (UTC)

 * All very true - it hadn't occurred to me, but you're right that opening with "epidemiology" is all wrong. It needs a fairly major reorganisation/rewrite and possibly splitting into extra pages. Grrr - wish I had time to do it. It's really unwikipedialike of me to say, "yes this should be done" and then expect someone else to do it. --ALargeElk 08:46, 7 May 2004 (UTC)

The PRC's oppression of Tibetans and their religion is not allegation: It's actual fact. To call it merely allegation is to show bias in favour of one of the world's most deplorable regimes. (Castro's just a clown compared to the Chicons (as a social democrat, I won't call them anything leftist). The Saudis and DRKers are worse though.)

I do not know what was in the mind of people who have committed suidide. People judge others who contemplate suicide as irrational and not of sound mind. In my own mind....I am never irrational. In my mind....it is the people who dont understand and the people who continue to make assumptions who are irrational. But you are not in my mind....so how can you understand. You can never truly understand me so why bother you with what would seem to you a scramble of emotions and conclusions.....but then why bother with life at all.....i will try.....continue.....

There is one thing I do for others. I dont get thanked for it, because its so common...people just take it for granted. Do you know what it is? I will tell you. Its living. Which may be why to others I seem fine and normal....and the next day something happends.....something not right...something snaps and living starts becoming a present you cant afford to give. But what else can one do but continue....struggling, quietly.

People who consider suicide either ask for acknowledgment or at least in wanting quietly. There is a difference between wanting people to know and letting people know. One may want people to know and do everything in thier power to hide it, to not hurt others.....these ones suffer silently. The others demand attention....i suppose at least they get it when they finally decide to give in.

'They take the easy way out'......I used to be one of these people. But perhaps living is for people who can't hack dying. Who knows...but I can assure you....losing the will to live permanently is not an easy thing at all. Taking your existance away is not easy....it is the hardest most final decision one can make.

But while you read this....you may think...'this guy is an idiot', 'he just wants attention'. Maybe, but perhaps understanding is closer to home.....but if I can't make you understand then why bother........why bother with the living.....

I will continue.....for the moment.....

famous listing
I think the few names mentioned here are inadequate. If there is not already a listing of famous suicides, I propose there is.

In the interim I added Yukio Mishima to the list as his death was a protest-suicide.

I suggest we have the individual name, dates, and breif description of means of death if available, including if it a suspected, confirmed, or falsified suicide.

ie: Yukio Mishima (1925 - 1970) Seppuku as a form of protest

Vincent VanGogh (1853 - 1890) Self-inflected gunshot to chest

--Duemellon 13:11, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

There is already a list of famous suicides. -- wshun 13:15, 10 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I question the section about the Christian attitude towards suicide. First of all, at least a component of the Catholic objection to suicide is certainly the inherent sacredness of life. This article can be read to imply that this is not so. Secondly, Catholics also recognize that psychological circumstances can mitigate the sinfulness of suicide. From the Catechism: "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide."(2282) Finally, it is also recognized by the Church that God can forgive suicide. Again, from the Catechism: "We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance. The Church prays for persons who have taken their own lives."(2283) This article seems to imply that the Church does not recognize salvation for those that have taken their own life, since this belief is ascribed to "liberal Christians." I hope that I am not splitting hairs here; I just think this section is somewhat misleading.

 * I agree with your analysis based on what I know. Do you want to correct the article to remove inaccuracies?

 * Acegikmo1 08:33, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Suicide/Archive 1