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Talk:Saber-toothed predator

Which mammals have the saber-tooth morphology?
As possible preparation for a split, I thought it might be interesting to discuss which mammals should be included. Many mammals have large canines for various reasons (hippos, babboons, musk deer, taeniodonts), but this is not enough. Is carnivory and long canines sufficient, or is it associated with other morphological features of the skull (sagital crest, or the build in general (stocky, short-limbed)? While looking at this I have reservations about inclusion of the Deltatheroida. The reference given for Lotheridium doesn't mention a saber-tooth adaptation. It describes a long canine that is transversely compressed, but is this sufficient for the conclusion that it is an early saber-tooted adaptation. On the other hand, the Arctocyonidae might have a better case. The website paleocene-mammals.de states the following:
 * "It is noteworthy that some arctocyonids started to develop a saber-tooth dentition, the type of teeth that is most widely known from saber-toothed cats but occurs independently in other mammals like the marsupial saber-tooth Thylacosmilus. Among arctocyonids this trend can first be seen in Mentoclaenodon from the middle Paleocene fissure fillings of Walbeck, Germany. With an estimated skull length of about 15 cm this rare form is the largest mammal of the Walbeck fauna. Mentoclaenodon has particularly large upper canines that are crenulated at the back, and it shows a beginning expansion of the chin region as this is often associated with saber-teeth. In Anacodon, the late Paleocene to early Eocene terminal form of the large North American arctocyonids, the chin is developed into a large flange to protect the saber-like upper canines. These arctocyonids may have been the first carnivore-like mammals ever to evolve this type of dentition."

Unfortunately it doesn't give specific references, just general references at the end. I'll try and follow up and check the general references and some other sources. This sort of more general and arguably speculative expansion of sabre-toothed predators is much more suitable in a dedicated article than in this one. Jts1882 (talk) 16:52, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
 * As stated elsewhere, this is only used to refer to predators, and it also includes other skull and skeleton features. According to Antón 2013, the relevant groups are: Gorgonopsia, Thylacosmilidae, Machaeroidinae, Nimravidae, Barbourofelidae, and Machairodontinae. FunkMonk (talk) 16:56, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. So why does the article include Deltatheroida/Lotheridium? Jts1882 (talk) 19:35, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
 * No idea, the cited article doesn't seem to mention saber-teeth, so it is probably WP:original research by whoever added it. FunkMonk (talk) 19:51, 29 March 2017 (UTC)
 * It's been confirmed that the Deltatheroida were carnivores. And since apparently the criteria for this page is that something is both a carnivore and possesses Saber-teeth-type dentition. As it fits the criteria it's inclusion seems justified, Also if the Arctocyonids were carnivores, then include them as well.TheDarkMaster2 (talk) 23:05, 24 October 2019 (UTC)
 * We can only add it if reliable sources call it such. Doesn't matter if we think it applies. FunkMonk (talk) 14:46, 21 October 2021 (UTC)

Split or rename again
So there has been no progress in solving the issue with this article, which is that the title Saber-toothed cat is not inclusive enough to cover what is currently the article's scope, which is all saber-toothed synapsid predators that ever lived. So what to do? Rename the article, or make a new one where info about the niche as a whole can be covered, and the info about non-feliform saber-tooths be removed from here? And in that case, what should the new article be called? FunkMonk (talk) 18:41, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Saber-toothed synapsid predator? And a split does sound reasonable. BilCat (talk) 19:00, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Could be, though it is a bit wordy. If we want to be even more specific, it could also be therapsid, though with both examples, few readers would understand what we're talking about. But yeah, it is pretty difficult to come up with a concise title that also covers exactly what we want. FunkMonk (talk) 19:10, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Gorgonopsids are not saber toothed cats. When most people are thinking about sabre tooth cats they are not thinking about gorgonopsids. Gorgonopsids are already given appropriate mention in the text, it is not necessary to clarify further. Hemiauchenia (talk) 19:43, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * The problem is, only machairodonts are saber-toothed cats. Thylacosmilids, nimravids, "credodonts" etc., are not cats either, and that's already at least half what this article covers. FunkMonk (talk) 19:56, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Do we want to amend it to "sabertooths"?--Mr Fink (talk) 19:57, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * It probably needs something more, because there are various other animals with saber-teeth, such as Tiarajudens, which were not predators, as well as fish with that name, see saber-tooth. FunkMonk (talk) 19:59, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Sabretooth ecomorph? —  Jts1882 | talk 10:27, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I proposed that once, but seems it was too esoteric. Maybe "saber-tooth predator niche" would be the most understandable. FunkMonk (talk) 14:38, 14 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Unless there's a common name in the scientific literature that we can use, I say we go for that. Speaking of which, "Sabertooth Cat" is generally used for Smilodon & Machairodontinae. I say we have "Sabertooth Cat" redirect to the latter & add a template for the former. Monsieur X (talk) 07:42, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree but I have a feeling many would be against that, because it's such a popular term (as was shown by earlier discussions about this). But at best, it could only be a redundant disambiguation page otherwise. FunkMonk (talk) 13:43, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
 * My head hurts just reading those as they don't make any sense. It should either be the earlier mentioned "Evolution of sabertooth morphology" or "saber-tooth predator niche". If you look up Sabretooth cats anywhere else, it's always Smilodon or related felids. It's just this page that's the problem! Monsieur X (talk) 20:40, 16 October 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll try to compile a list of possible inclusive names, then we can maybe have a vote soon. And then afterwards we can figure out what's the best thing, to just move this article, or make a new one. FunkMonk (talk) 21:16, 17 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Here are some suggestions for more inclusive article names, some taken from previous discussions. Perhaps we could add votes below them. Feel free to add more. FunkMonk (talk) 14:46, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Saber-toothed predator
 * I think this one would be the most understandable for layreaders. FunkMonk (talk) 14:46, 21 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Seems to be the most simple and easily understandable version so I think this would be the best option. Ichthyovenator (talk) 23:34, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Saber-toothed predator niche
 * Saber-toothed ecomorph
 * Saber-tooth (predator)
 * Saber-tooth (ecomorph)
 * Saber-toothed synapsid
 * Saber-toothed therapsid
 * Saber-tooth ecomorph
 * Saber-toothed carnivore
 * Saber-tooth morphology
 * Saber-tooth (morphology)
 * Evolution of saber-tooth morphology
 * I say we go with this one as there are plenty of "Evolution of" articles. With a title like that, it could go more into the details of convergent evolution in sabre-tooth predators. Monsieur X (talk) 08:52, 24 October 2021 (UTC)
 * How does Evolution of saber-toothed predators sound? If not that, simply Saber-toothed predator sounds good to me. Both titles are fairly approachable to a layperson, aren't wrong, and don't get into unnecessary specifics. If, hypothetically, there were a weird Triassic archosauromorph that had strong functional convergence on machairodontines, it would make as much sense to mention as gorgonopsians. Conversely, there aren't any saber-toothed sauropsid predators we specifically want to exclude, AFAIK. As such, I don't see much benefit to specifying a clade name in the title. Ornithopsis (talk) 23:16, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Yeah, feel free to add it to the list too. I'm fine with any title, as long as it is more inclusive. FunkMonk (talk) 23:21, 31 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Overall I think Saber-toothed predator is our best option. It's short, to the point, understandable to a layperson, and a perfectly adequate encapsulation of what this article is about. Ornithopsis (talk) 23:24, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

 * Saber-toothed synapsid predator
 * Evolution of saber-toothed predators
 * Sabertooth predator
 * "Sabertooth" (hyphens and UK/US spelling variable) seems to be the closest thing there is to a standard name for this thing. Obviously, that's taken by the disambiguation. MOS says that parenthetical disambiguation is only to be used if there is not a satisfactory natural disambiguation. A skim of Google Scholar finds "sabertooth predator" and "saber-toothed predator" to be used occasionally; none of the other phrases turn up many results on Google Scholar. I'm leaning slightly towards "Sabertooth predator" or "Sabretooth predator" over "Saber-toothed predator" or "Sabre-toothed predator", because I think the unhyphenated version comes across more clearly as a noun phrase with a specific meaning (a predator with dental adaptations implying morphofunctional convergence with machairodontines), rather than simply "a predator that has sabre teeth", and as such is a more encyclopedic concept. Ornithopsis (talk) 00:07, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Any preferences regarding "sabertoothed" vs "sabertooth"? FunkMonk (talk) 00:09, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Google scholar returns 32 results for "sabertooth morphology" and variations with hyphen, "ed", and/or UK spellings brings the total to about 100, mostly in the correct context, e.g. evolution of the sabertooth morphology, acquisition of the sabertooth morphology, transitional sabertooth morphology, suite of sabertooth morphology, etc. It clearly referring to the concept, a morphology associated with a functional adaptation, rather than being used as an adjective for a carnivore or predator. So I lean towards Sabertooth morphology or Evolution of sabertooth morphology. —  Jts1882 | talk 09:18, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Huh. I'm not sure how I missed that; maybe I misspelled it when I searched it. I suppose it comes down to the question, do we want the article to be about the animals that share this adaptation, or do we want it to be specifically about the anatomical trait itself? "Sabertooth predator" seems more appropriate for the former and "sabertooth morphology" more appropriate for the latter. "Sabertooth predator" strikes me as slightly more layperson-friendly as well. Ornithopsis (talk) 19:10, 1 November 2021 (UTC)

 * I would propose to simply rename to Sabertooth, but keep the article restricted to synapsids. The disambiguation page can be kept to point to the rarer usages of the term, including sabertooth fish. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 11:03, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Are sabertooth predators clearly the primary topic over the Marvel supervillain Sabretooth? I think "Sabertooth" or "Sabretooth" would be the best title for this article, if we could get a consensus that these animals are the primary topic. The "enduring notability and educational value" criterion points clearly to sabertooth predators. "Smilodon" and "Saber-toothed cat" both far exceed "Sabretooth (character)" in page views. However, googling "Sabretooth" turns up results mostly related to Marvel. I'm inclined to think that sabertooth predators are, indeed, the primary topic, but there might be some pushback from people who aren't paleontology enthusiasts. Ornithopsis (talk) 19:22, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't think we can use the standard google search to establish encyclopedic relevance comparing a comic character with a scientific concept (the former will usually have more hits, which does not mean it is more relevant). I therefore don't see a problem here. I dislike "sabertooth predator", as that somehow implies that there are sabertooths which are not predators? "Predator" here seems redundant. "Sabertooth morphology" sounds not much better to me, because "morphology" is just about the shape, and our article should include function as well. As you already suggested, I think that simply Sabertooth would be the best choice. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 19:31, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, the problem is it's not entirely up to us. I think we should try and get "Sabertooth" as the article title, but if that ends up getting rejected, we'll need to discuss alternatives. Ornithopsis (talk) 19:34, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * As an alternative, I would personally go for sabertooth (ecomorph). By the way, only the spelling "Sabretooth" turns up the comic thing in Google for me. The spelling "Sabertooth" is all about science. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 19:38, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I would prefer Sabertooth predator to Sabertooth (ecomorph). The latter is less clear to a layperson, and it uses parenthetical disambiguation, which Wikipedia policy regards as less preferable than natural disambiguation. And there are sabertooths that aren't predators—that's kind of the entire point of the sabertooth disambiguation page. Anyhow, I would suggest we put up a move request (or whatever the procedure is) to move Saber-toothed cat to Sabertooth, with Sabretooth as a redirect, and move the current Sabretooth page to Sabretooth (disambiguation). Ornithopsis (talk) 19:48, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I don't see it: the comic character seems partly animal, so it is partly predator as well? See also the separate meanings of "predator": predator. The character is derived from the real thing to start with. And in my opinion, Sabertooth predator is incorrect because that would imply an article about the animals, not the feature (which I think you already pointed out above). The article won't contain much information about the animals that are unrelated to the feature, so that title might be misleading. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:09, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * There are several other entries on the disambiguation page that aren't predators. I assume we aren't going to rewrite the article to only be about the teeth, right? The article as it stands is clearly about a category of predatory mammal, and not about a specific anatomical trait per se. Ornithopsis (talk) 20:33, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The article would be about the ecomorph, not about a polyphyletic group. At the very least, sabertooth predator would include the sabertooth fish as these are definitely predators, so this title won't work for this reason alone in my opinion. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 21:08, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia is not a scientific journal, so we should avoid jargon such as "ecomorph" except where necessary. The term "sabertooth predator" has been used in the scientific literature as a name for the ecomorph in question (e.g.  ). Ornithopsis (talk) 23:21, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Also, this conversation is purely semantics until we've determined if we can lay claim to the page title "sabertooth" or not. What do other people think of that? Ornithopsis (talk) 23:22, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Sabertooth predator seems to be an ad-hoc combination rather than an actual defined term. We could also choose Sabertooth carnivore (which has just as many – just a handful – hits on Google Scholar) or some similar random combination. But both are not widely used, and even when they have been used in some papers doesn't mean that they are the right terms for our article. But yes, we both wanted to go for "sabertooth" anyways, let's see what others think. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 23:46, 1 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I think having some kind of word after "sabertooth" would be good just to make it more understandable for layreaders, but yeah, it's difficult to figure out exactly what. It was pointed out earlier that "sabertoothed carnivore" could be misleading, as it might imply Carnivora, any thoughts on that? Also, we have to keep in mind a lot of non-expert editors will likely join in when the move proposal is made, so making it as "attractive" as possible could avoid the failure of the last request. FunkMonk (talk) 10:04, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * But if it refers to Carnivora, it would be sabertooth carnivorans, right? This is actually another ad hoc term that is in use. The problem remains that such ad hoc terms lack a generally accepted definition. While "sabertooth carnivoran" is unambiguous, I don't see how "sabertooth predator" or "sabertooth carnivore" could exclude the sabertooth fish when such definition is absent; when we do this, I fear it is WP:synth. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 10:28, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I'll try to look through Mauricio Antón's Sabertooth book later today to see if he used any term other than just "sabertooths", I think it's one of the few popular books that cover the group as a whole. FunkMonk (talk) 10:38, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, I think a secondary source is what we need here. Language allows to form compound words ad hoc (extreme example: "giant marsupial predatory sabertooth"), but that does not make them part of the scientific terminology that should be defined in a dictionary or encyclopedia. If Antón writes something that defines the term, like "sabertooth predators are an ecomorph …", or if he indicates that he adopts the term from another source, e.g. "which have been called sabertooth predators", that would be a very solid argument in my opinion. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 10:58, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Just looked, and Antón does seem to either use "sabertooth/sabertooths" or "sabertoothed predators" interchangeably, here are some excerpts from the first chapter "what is a sabertooth?":

 * "Today sabertooths are a familiar kind of extinct creatures for scientists and for many laypersons, but in the early days of paleontology, not even scientists knew that such a thing as a sabertoothed predator had ever existed."

 * "The identification of the concept “sabertooth” with Smilodon has inevitably masked one of the main facts of sabertooth history: diversity. This book deals with sabertoothed predators, a broader concept than that of the sabertoothed cats. While the latter indeed belonged to the cat family (including animals like Smilodon itself and closely related genera such as Megantereon and Homotherium), many sabertooths did not, and some of them would look quite uncatlike to a modern observer."

 * "Sabertoothed predators include the following groups: 1. The gorgonopsians, an extinct group of Permian therapsids, or mammal-like reptiles. 2. Thylacosmilid sabertooths, an extinct family of South American predaceous marsupials. 3. Machaeroidine sabertooths, members of the Creodonta, an extinct order of meat-eating placental mammals related to but different from the true carnivorans (members of the order Carnivora). 4. Nimravid sabertooths, members of the extinct carnivoran family Nimravidae. 5. Barbourofelid sabertooths, members of the extinct carnivoran family Barbourofelidae. 6. Felid sabertooths, or true sabertooth cats, extinct members of the living carnivoran family Felidae. The last three families were members of the Feliformia, a major division of the order Carnivora that includes the modern cats, civets, mongooses, and hyenas.". FunkMonk (talk) 11:22, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Thanks. This makes it clear enough that "sabertooth predator" is more than an ad hoc term, and it is clearly defined in this secondary source. This should be cited as evidence in the move proposal. I don't have any more objections. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 11:28, 2 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Cool, I'll wait for a week, so more editors can have a look. But yeah, kind of stupid I didn't just look at the book before... FunkMonk (talk) 11:33, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Wouldn't "sabertoothed predator" also include sabertooth fish and Monosmilus?  User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk 18:18, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Technically, perhaps, but now we at least have one authority that uses the term specifically for the therapsid predators. FunkMonk (talk) 09:30, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

New Theory
A new paper by Paul Barrett puts the cat among the pigeons. According to this study the barbourofelids are nimravids after all. It does suggest that they were a separate lineage developing the sabretooth morphology, but from a lineage of conical-toothed nimravines. There is another paper looking at their place in the broader Carnivoraverse (Barrett et al, 2020). I haven't access to the full paper yet, but the phylogenetic analyses is available in the supplementary materials. —  Jts1882 | talk 16:26, 28 October 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 10 November 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: (non-admin closure) MOVED to Saber-toothed predator. Consensus that the scope of the article is not (and should not be) specifically about cats. No consensus on the (ENGVAR-related) issue of whether saber-toothed should be hyphenated; as such the status quo ante style holds. No prejudice against speedy re-nomination to adjust the hyphenation. User:力 (powera, π,  ν ) 23:13, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

Saber-toothed cat → Sabertoothed predator – The current title is too specific, though this article has been about all predators with saberteeth since its beginning, most of which are not cats, or have ever been referred to as cats. Per the discussions above, "sabertoothed predator" is the most inclusive title, and is a term that has been used for the entire group in at least one book about the subject (Antón 2013). The term "sabertoothed cat" can either become a redirect here, or instead redirect to the family Machairodontidae, which includes the only cats with saberteeth. FunkMonk (talk) 11:25, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Comment the same proposed move was made before see Talk:Saber-toothed cat/Archive 2 and closed with no consensus. — PBS (talk) 19:07, 19 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Support. Not my favourite choice, but I can accept the reasons for going with Antón, as this article fits well with his statement that "Sabertoothed predators include the following ..." . I think the title should be plural as its not about one predator, but Wikipedia has a strange preference for singular titles. —  Jts1882 | talk 11:46, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I have no preference in that regard, though we should probably follow similar articles. FunkMonk (talk) 12:00, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Oppose change from "Saber-toothed" to "Sabertoothed" as it would appear to be an WP:ENGVAR issue. American English often concatenates words that in British English remain seperate. A search on ["saber-toothed" site:ac.uk] returns hundreds of pages with that spelling. As to whether to change "cat" to "preditor" I have no opinion. -- PBS (talk) 13:36, 10 November 2021 (UTC) struck out opinion — PBS (talk) 14:59, 12 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Ok, but that is something that can be easily changed if we decide on it, or added as an option here, and is not really the point of this move request, which is the scope of the article. This spelling was chosen because it seemed from a survey above that it was more prevalent in scholarly sources. FunkMonk (talk) 13:42, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I think that "saber" is actually the American spelling (the other spelling is "sabre"). Shouldn't we follow the American English way of concatenating words if we use the American spelling? --Jens Lallensack (talk) 13:45, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The article currently uses American spelling. I'd prefer English spelling and sabre-toothed, but the important change is cat to predator to reflect the scope of the article as most sabre-toothed predators are not true cats. This has been discussed on and off for ages and lack of consensus on the exact form (sabre or saber, hypen or no hyphen, -ed suffix or not, predator or carnivore, etc) has led to no change when there is clear consensus that the current title is misleading. —  Jts1882 | talk 13:54, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * But in that case, WP:Engvar says we have to stick to the original spelling used when the article was created, which was American. Unless there is a special British connection to the subject, which is hardly the case here. FunkMonk (talk) 14:05, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Or if we assume the hyphenated version is British, then "saber-toothed" is a hybrid that should not have been used to begin with ("sabre" is the UK spelling, as Jens pointed out). FunkMonk (talk) 14:20, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The American usage includes sabertooth and saber-toothed. We can use sabertooth (after Antón) as a noun or saber-toothed as an adjective (e.g. Merriam-Webster). If you look at the two references in the section above they use both.
 * I voted to support your proposed name change as we can spend forever arguing over the best choice from all the variants. The bottom line is that this article is not all about cats so the current title is misleading. —  Jts1882 | talk 14:54, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I agree, the important thing is to get this moved to a more inclusive title, as the below comment shows it is already leading to misinformation. Any details about how to form the name can be discussed later. FunkMonk (talk) 14:58, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * You might want to respond to this, . FunkMonk (talk) 18:05, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Oppose per WP:COMMONNAME. -- Necrothesp (talk) 14:33, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Have you even read the discussion? That is not the common name of what this article is currently about, which is the problem. The current name only applies to those sabertoothed predators which are cats, which already have another article, Machairodontidae. For your oppose to have any merit, you'd have to demonstrate that the term "sabertoothed cat" has been used for any of the other groups covered in this article by any reliable soures. FunkMonk (talk) 14:37, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Yes, I have read it. My comment stands. Who on earth uses the term "sabertoothed predator"? -- Necrothesp (talk) 16:47, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * As was noted in the discussion above, several sources. The WP:COMMONNAME is "Sabertooth", but that needs to be disambiguated: ergo, "sabertoothed predator" or some variant thereupon, which is a term that sees some use and more accurately reflects the article content than "saber-toothed cat" does. Ornithopsis (talk) 17:11, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * And again, "sabertoothed cat" is not used as a common name for all these animals outside this very Wikipedia article. In fact, it appears to have been an invention of whoever created this article, and doesn't reflect the literature. The sources use the terms "sabertooth" and "sabertoothed predator", as has been demonstrated above. This oppose is based on nothing that can be verified by the literature, and the main point here is that the article needs to be moved away from any title with the too specific word "cat" in it. FunkMonk (talk) 17:38, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * The use of sabre-toothed cat has a long history. Nimravids and Barbourofelids were originally considered cats and when it was realised they were not the term false sabre tooth cats was introduced. So a historical case could be made for an article on sabre-toothed "cats". It wouldn't include the others, though. Those were probably added following Anton, who dropped the cat in his book title. I think everyone agrees its better if cats is removed from the title, given the scope of the article, but there are so many variants. At least we seem to be moving towards a consensus on American spelling. —  Jts1882 | talk 18:23, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

 * Support. The spelling "Sabertoothed" is compatible with WP:Engvar as pointed out above, and while "Saber-toothed cat" is more common, it is a different (less inclusive) topic. The WP:COMMONNAME of the group that this article covers is either "Sabertoothed predator" or the simple and less precise "Sabertooth". --Jens Lallensack (talk) 14:42, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Support. As per the discussion above, "sabertoothed predator" or a variant thereupon is a term that is in use, more accurately reflects the article content than "sabertoothed cat" does, and which, unlike "Sabertooth", avoids problems with disambiguation. Ultimately, I have no strong opinion on which of the many variants of "sabertooth", "sabre-toothed", etc. is preferable. "Sabre-toothed cat" could redirect to either this page or Machairodontinae; I think that this page might be preferable, as somebody searching the term might not be aware that there are multiple unrelated groups of sabertooths. Ornithopsis (talk) 17:21, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Upon further thought, I would specifically prefer "saber-toothed predator", but regard the specific spelling of "saber-toothed" as a minor semantic point compared to the cat vs. predator issue and would not oppose a move on the grounds of spelling of "saber-toothed" alone. As per WP:ENGVAR, we should keep the American spelling of "saber"; moreover, the most famous sabertooth, Smilodon, is endemic to the Americas, suggesting marginally greater geographic relevance to the US than UK. Google Scholar turns up more results for "saber-toothed" than "sabertoothed", "saber-tooth", and "sabertooth" put together, and approximately equal results for "saber-toothed predator" (15) and "saber-tooth predator" (16), but fewer for "sabertooth predator" and "sabertoothed predator". It appears that the hyphen should stay. Ornithopsis (talk) 17:54, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * If that's acceptable US spelling too, I might change the request to the hyphenated version just to get it moved quicker (one oppose is strictly due to this minor detail). FunkMonk (talk) 18:05, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * I can't confirm that it's strictly correct from a perscriptivist perspective, but it's clearly widely used so I think the point is moot. Ornithopsis (talk) 18:56, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * +1 for "saber-toothed predator" (with hyphen) if that is indeed more common. --Jens Lallensack (talk) 20:20, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
 * Support move to drop "cat" from the title - not descriptive of the current article's scope. Neutral about alternatives in terms of spelling and punctuation. Lythronaxargestes (talk | contribs) 19:57, 10 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Support Sabertooth cats already have their own article, this article should reflect the whole topic of the sabertooth predator ecomorph. Minor semantics about the proper name of "sabre/er toot(ed)" are not what the thrust of the request is about, and can be dealt with later. Hemiauchenia (talk) 20:58, 10 November 2021 (UTC)

Hyphen and what to do with saber-toothed cat
So now that the move to a more inclusive title has finally been completed, we're left with two remaining issues: whether "saber-toothed" should be hyphenated or not, and whether saber-toothed cat should redirect here, or to Machairodontidae. I personally don't have strong feelings about either issue, but I think it could be argued that it is maybe nice for layreaders that saber-toothed cat redirects here, as it will give them more general information. FunkMonk (talk) 08:09, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Congratulations. A move finally got approved after many attempts. I think the hyphen is appropriate as the term "saber-toothed" is serving as an adjective of predator. The hyphen is not necessary when used as a noun as in sabertooth sensu Anton.
 * Saber-toothed cat should redirect to Machairodontidae. Perhaps a hatnote could be added pointing to saber-toothed predators. —  Jts1882 | talk 08:23, 20 November 2021 (UTC)
 * Certainly would be the most accurate, and would drive the point home. FunkMonk (talk) 09:26, 20 November 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Saber-toothed predator


text: User talk:68.105.64.69

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:68.105.64.69


text:
Lerner symmetry theorem

The Lerner symmetry theorem is a result used in international trade theory, which states that an ad valorem import tariff (a percentage of value or an amount per unit) will have the same effects as an export tax. The theorem is based on the observation that the effect on relative prices is the same regardless of which policy (ad valorem tariffs or export taxes) is applied.

The theorem was developed by economist Abba P. Lerner in 1936.

title: Lerner symmetry theorem


text:
Amish, Iowa

Amish (also known locally as Joetown) is an unincorporated community in Washington Township, Johnson County, Iowa, United States. It is part of the Iowa City Metropolitan Statistical Area. Its altitude is 758 feet (231 m), and it lies at 41.53583°N, -91.78667°W (41.5358477, −91.7865601).

History
Amish's population was 64 in 1902, and 75 in 1925. The population was 56 in 1940.

title: Amish, Iowa


text: User talk:209.179.168.30

title: User talk:209.179.168.30


text:
Talk:RMS Arlanza (1911)

untitled
Moved from article: "MI PADRE LEIZER EPSTEIN VIAJO COMO EMIGRANTE A BUENOS AIRES EN EL ARLANZA EN 1927 JUNTO CON SU HERMANA ESTER DESDE EL PUERTO DE CHERBURGO JAIME EPSTEIN  EPSTEIN@SION.COM" Stan 05:47, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Photo of Arlanza
I did come across a photo of the Arlanza under construction alongside the almost complete hull of the Titanic. If I come across it I will scan it and upload it.Danny Newman 10:05, 11 April 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Dannynewman (talk • contribs)

External links modified
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Recycling of the ship
I have a bench made from the wood of this ship. It is fascinating to read so much detail about the life this ship had. Thanks to all who have contributed to this page. 90.253.23.164 (talk) 11:34, 5 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:RMS Arlanza (1911)


text:
Sieve theory

Sieve theory is a set of general techniques in number theory, designed to count, or more realistically to estimate the size of, sifted sets of integers. The prototypical example of a sifted set is the set of prime numbers up to some prescribed limit X. Correspondingly, the prototypical example of a sieve is the sieve of Eratosthenes, or the more general Legendre sieve. The direct attack on prime numbers using these methods soon reaches apparently insuperable obstacles, in the way of the accumulation of error terms. In one of the major strands of number theory in the twentieth century, ways were found of avoiding some of the difficulties of a frontal attack with a naive idea of what sieving should be.

One successful approach is to approximate a specific sifted set of numbers (e.g. the set of prime numbers) by another, simpler set (e.g. the set of almost prime numbers), which is typically somewhat larger than the original set, and easier to analyze. More sophisticated sieves also do not work directly with sets per se, but instead count them according to carefully chosen weight functions on these sets (options for giving some elements of these sets more "weight" than others). Furthermore, in some modern applications, sieves are used not to estimate the size of a sifted set, but to produce a function that is large on the set and mostly small outside it, while being easier to analyze than the characteristic function of the set.

The term sieve was first used by the norwegian mathematician Viggo Brun in 1915. However Brun's work was inspired by the works of the french mathematician Jean Merlin who died in the World War I and only two of his manuscripts survived.

Basic sieve theory
For information on notation see at the end.

We start with some countable sequence of non-negative numbers $$\mathcal{A}=(a_n)$$. In the most basic case this sequence is just the indicator function $$a_n=1_{A}(n)$$ of some set $$A=\{s:s\leq x\}$$ we want to sieve. However this abstraction allows for more general situations. Next we introduce a general set of prime numbers called the sifting range $$\mathcal{P}\subseteq \mathbb{P}$$ and their product up to $$z$$ as a function $$P(z)=\prod\limits_{p\in\mathcal{P}, p<z}p$$.

The goal of sieve theory is to estimate the sifting function
 * $$S(\mathcal{A},\mathcal{P},z)=\sum\limits_{n\leq x, \text{gcd}(n,P(z))=1}a_n.$$

In the case of $$a_n=1_{A}(n)$$ this just counts the cardinality of a subset $$A_{\operatorname{sift}}\subseteq A$$ of numbers, that are coprime to the prime factors of $$P(z)$$.

The inclusion–exclusion principle
For $$\mathcal{P}$$ define
 * $$A_{\operatorname{sift}}:=\{a\in A|(a,p_1\cdots p_k)=1\}, \quad p_1,\dots,p_k\in\mathcal{P}$$

and for each prime $$p\in \mathcal{P}$$ denote the set $$E_p=\{pn:n\in\mathbb{N}\}$$ and let $$|E_p|$$ be the cardinality. Let now $$\mathcal{P}:=\{2,3,5,7,11,13\dots\}$$ be some set of primes.

If one wants to calculate the cardinality of $$A_{\operatorname{sift}}$$, one can apply the inclusion–exclusion principle. This algorithm works like this: first one removes from the cardinality of $$|A|$$ the cardinality $$|E_2|$$ and $$|E_3|$$. Now since one has removed the numbers that are divisble by $$2$$ and $$3$$ twice, one has to add the cardinality $$|E_6|$$. In the next step one removes $$|E_5|$$ and adds $$|E_{10}|$$ and $$|E_{15}|$$ again. Additionally one has now to remove $$|E_{30}|$$, i.e. the cardinality of all numbers divisible by $$2,3$$ and $$5$$. This leads to the inclusion–exclusion principle
 * $$|A_{\operatorname{sift}}|=|A|-|E_2|-|E_3|+|E_6|-|E_5|+|E_{10}|+|E_{15}|-|E_{30}|+\cdots$$

Legendre's identity
We can rewrite the sifting function with Legendre's identity
 * $$S(\mathcal{A},\mathcal{P},z)=\sum\limits_{d\mid P(z)}\mu(d)A_d(x)$$

by using the Möbius function and some functions $$A_d(x)$$ induced by the elements of $$\mathcal{P}$$
 * $$A_d(x)=\sum\limits_{n\leq x, n\equiv 0\pmod{d}}a_n.$$

Example
Let $$z=7$$ and $$\mathcal{P}=\mathbb{P}$$. The Möbius function is negative for every prime, so we get
 * $$\begin{align}

S(\mathcal{A},\mathbb{P},7)&=A_1(x)-A_2(x)-A_3(x)-A_5(x)+A_6(x)+A_{10}(x)+A_{15}(x)-A_{30}(x). \end{align}$$

Approximation of the congruence sum
One assumes then that $$A_d(x)$$ can be written as
 * $$A_d(x)=g(d)X+r_d(x)$$

where $$g(d)$$ is a density, meaning a multiplicative function such that
 * $$g(1)=1,\qquad 0\leq g(p)<1 \qquad p\in \mathbb{P}$$

and $$X$$ is an approximation of $$A_1(x)$$ and $$r_d(x)$$ is some remainder term. The sifting function becomes
 * $$S(\mathcal{A},\mathcal{P},z)=X\sum\limits_{d\mid P(z)}\mu(d)g(d)+\sum\limits_{d\mid P(z)}\mu(d)r_d(x)$$

or in short
 * $$S(\mathcal{A},\mathcal{P},z)=XG(x,z)+R(x,z).$$

One tries then to estimate the sifting function by finding upper and lower bounds for $$S$$ respectively $$G$$ and $$R$$.

The partial sum of the sifting function alternately over- and undercounts, so the remainder term will be huge. Brun's idea to improve this was to replace $$\mu(d)$$ in the sifting function with a weight sequence $$(\lambda_d)$$ consisting of restricted Möbius functions. Choosing two appropriate sequences $$(\lambda_d^{-})$$ and $$(\lambda_d^{+})$$ and denoting the sifting functions with $$S^{-}$$ and $$S^{+}$$, one can get lower and upper bounds for the original sifting functions
 * $$S^{-}\leq S\leq S^{+}.$$

Since $$g$$ is multiplicative, one can also work with the identity
 * $$\sum\limits_{d\mid n}\mu(d)g(d)=\prod\limits_{\begin{array}{c} p|n ;\; p\in\mathbb{P}\end{array}}(1-g(p)),\quad\forall\; n\in\mathbb{N}.$$

Notation: a word of caution regarding the notation, in the literature one often identifies the set of sequences $$\mathcal{A}$$ with the set $$A$$ itself. This means one writes $$\mathcal{A}=\{s:s\leq x\}$$ to define a sequence $$\mathcal{A}=(a_n)$$. Also in the literature the sum $$A_d(x)$$ is sometimes notated as the cardinality $$|A_d(x)|$$ of some set $$A_d(x)$$, while we have defined $$A_d(x)$$ to be already the cardinality of this set. We used $$\mathbb{P}$$ to denote the set of primes and $$(a,b)$$ for the greatest common divisor of $$a$$ and $$b$$.

Types of sieving
Modern sieves include the Brun sieve, the Selberg sieve, the Turán sieve, the large sieve, the larger sieve and the Goldston-Pintz-Yıldırım sieve. One of the original purposes of sieve theory was to try to prove conjectures in number theory such as the twin prime conjecture. While the original broad aims of sieve theory still are largely unachieved, there have been some partial successes, especially in combination with other number theoretic tools. Highlights include:

 * 1) Brun's theorem, which shows that the sum of the reciprocals of the twin primes converges (whereas the sum of the reciprocals of all primes diverges);
 * 2) Chen's theorem, which shows that there are infinitely many primes p such that p + 2 is either a prime or a semiprime (the product of two primes); a closely related theorem of Chen Jingrun asserts that every sufficiently large even number is the sum of a prime and another number which is either a prime or a semiprime.  These can be considered to be near-misses to the twin prime conjecture and the Goldbach conjecture respectively.
 * 3) The fundamental lemma of sieve theory, which asserts that if one is sifting a set of N numbers, then one can accurately estimate the number of elements left in the sieve after $$N^\varepsilon$$ iterations provided that $$\varepsilon$$ is sufficiently small (fractions such as 1/10 are quite typical here). This lemma is usually too weak to sieve out primes (which generally require something like $$N^{1/2}$$ iterations), but can be enough to obtain results regarding almost primes.
 * 4) The Friedlander–Iwaniec theorem, which asserts that there are infinitely many primes of the form $$a^2 + b^4$$.
 * 5) Zhang's theorem, which shows that there are infinitely many pairs of primes within a bounded distance. The Maynard–Tao theorem  generalizes Zhang's theorem to arbitrarily long sequences of primes.

Techniques of sieve theory
The techniques of sieve theory can be quite powerful, but they seem to be limited by an obstacle known as the parity problem, which roughly speaking asserts that sieve theory methods have extreme difficulty distinguishing between numbers with an odd number of prime factors and numbers with an even number of prime factors. This parity problem is still not very well understood.

Compared with other methods in number theory, sieve theory is comparatively elementary, in the sense that it does not necessarily require sophisticated concepts from either algebraic number theory or analytic number theory. Nevertheless, the more advanced sieves can still get very intricate and delicate (especially when combined with other deep techniques in number theory), and entire textbooks have been devoted to this single subfield of number theory; a classic reference is and a more modern text is.

The sieve methods discussed in this article are not closely related to the integer factorization sieve methods such as the quadratic sieve and the general number field sieve. Those factorization methods use the idea of the sieve of Eratosthenes to determine efficiently which members of a list of numbers can be completely factored into small primes.

title: Sieve theory


text:
A. E. W. Mason

Alfred Edward Woodley Mason (7 May 1865 – 22 November 1948) was an English author and Liberal Party Member of Parliament. He is best remembered for his 1902 novel of courage and cowardice in wartime, The Four Feathers, and is also known as the creator of Inspector Hanaud, a French detective who was an early template for Agatha Christie's famous Hercule Poirot.

His prolific output in short stories and novels were frequently made and remade into films during his lifetime; though many of the silent versions have been lost or forgotten, the productions of Fire Over England (1937) and The Four Feathers (1939) remain enduring classics of British cinema.

Life
Mason was born in Camberwell. He studied at Dulwich College and graduated from Trinity College, Oxford, in 1888. He was a contemporary of fellow Liberal Anthony Hope, who went on to write the adventure novel The Prisoner of Zenda. He was an actor before he became a writer, and took the role of Major Plechanoff in the premiere of George Bernard Shaw's Arms and the Man in 1894. He was also an avid cricket player.

Arthur Quiller-Couch and Oscar Wilde encouraged him to write, and his first novel, A Romance of Wastdale, was published in 1895. He was the author of more than 30 books, including At The Villa Rose (1910), a mystery novel in which he introduced his French detective, Inspector Hanaud; Hanaud's career in six novels spanned from before World War I to after World War II.

His best-known book is The Four Feathers, which has been made into several films (see below). Many consider it his masterpiece. Other books are The House of the Arrow (1924), No Other Tiger (1927), The Prisoner in the Opal (1929) and Fire Over England (1937). He contributed a short story, "The Conjurer", to The Queen's Book of the Red Cross.

Mason was elected as a Liberal Member of Parliament for Coventry in the 1906 general election. He served only a single term in Parliament, retiring at the next general election in January 1910.

His first play was the four-act comedy Marjory Strode. Mason wrote three plays that were produced and presented by Sir George Alexander in St James's Theatre. He wrote, "I had three plays produced by George Alexander; one a failure, Colonel Smith, one which made a moderate profit, Open Windows, and one which was a considerable success, The Witness for the Defence. The light farce Colonel Smith opened on 23 April 1909. The Witness for the Defence opened on 1 February 1911, starring Sir George Alexander as Henry Thresk. In 1913 Mason's problem play Open Windows opened on the evening of 11 March, starring Sydney Valentine as Phillip Hammond, Irene Vanbrugh as Cynthia Herrick, Sir George Alexander as John Herrick, with Rosalie Toller as Elsie Herrick.

Mason served with the Manchester Regiment in the First World War, being commissioned captain in the 21st Battalion in December 1914. In 1915 he transferred to the 22nd Battalion and then to the General List (reservists). In March 1917 he was granted the temporary rank of major and in October he relinquished his Army commission and joined the Royal Marine Light Infantry with the rank of major. His military career included work in naval intelligence, serving in Spain and Mexico, where he set up counter-espionage networks on behalf of the British government.

Mason turned to non-fiction as well; he wrote a biography of Sir Francis Drake (1941), whose piratical exploits for the Queen figure in Fire Over England. He was working on a non-fiction book about Admiral Robert Blake when he died in 1948.

Mason had been offered a knighthood but reportedly declined it, declaring that such honours meant little to a childless man.

Works
Mason's prolific output included over 30 novels as well as plays, short stories and articles. Many of his novels were adapted for the screen, several multiples times. During the 1910s and 1920s he worked closely with many film directors of the silent era.

Inspector Hanaud
In 1910, Mason undertook to create a fictional detective as different as possible from Sherlock Holmes, who had recently been resuscitated after his supposed death by Arthur Conan Doyle in 1903. Inspector Gabriel Hanaud was stout, not gaunt like Holmes; a professional policeman, not a gentleman amateur; from the French Sûreté, not Victorian England; and relying on psychological insights rather than physical evidence. His "Watson" is a retired London banker named Mr. Julius Ricardo.

Hanaud's appearance in the 1910 novel At The Villa Rose marks "the first major fiction detective of the Twentieth Century," according to a historian of the genre. Set in the south of France, its plot also ridicules spiritualism and mediums, well-known enthusiasms of A. Conan Doyle. Four more Hanaud novels and several short stories followed, the last, The House in Lordship Lane, in 1946 and the only one set in England. The first Hanaud book was a best-seller, as were several of Mason’s 30 novels, and as such often adapted into films, often more than once. A 1920 version of At the Villa Rose was a great success in British movie theatres that year, even as a play version of the novel simultaneously began a long run at the Strand. A successful silent version of The Four Feathers followed the next year.

The first sound version of At the Villa Rose was shot both in English and in French at Twickenham Studios in 1930, making it the first British bi-lingual production, released in America under the name The Mystery of the Villa Rose. This marked the film début of Austin Trevor, an actor from Northern Ireland, in the role of Mr. Ricardo. Trevor would go on to be the first actor to create Hercule Poirot on the screen. Veteran British director Walter Summers directed At the Villa Rose, aka House of Mystery, in 1940.

Film adaptations
Mason's historical novel Fire Over England (1936) was set in the 16th century as a beleaguered Elizabeth I of England prepares for invasion by a tyrannical Spain in the throes of the Inquisition. A thinly veiled metaphor for then-neutral Britain's need to prepare for the threat of Nazi invasion, and published while the Spanish Civil War was raging, the book was adapted for film by the author Clemence Dane for Alexander Korda, England's leading film producer; Korda was helping Winston Churchill in his struggle to alert the British people to the military threat of the Third Reich. The lavish costume drama also made stars of Vivien Leigh and Laurence Olivier in their first pairing as lovers onscreen, as they were off-screen.

Korda also produced The Four Feathers (1939), directed by his brother, Zoltan Korda. Filmed on location in the desert of Sudan, starring Ralph Richardson and John Clements; its technicolor cinematography was nominated for an Oscar. Released before Britain's entry into World War II, its pro-British theme also features valiant British fighting against hopeless odds, this time in a late 19th century imperial setting.

Zoltan Korda directed a remake, the much less successful Storm Over the Nile (1955), starring Anthony Steel. Other film versions include three earlier silent films, from 1915, 1921 and 1929, a 1978 American television film with Beau Bridges in the lead role, and The Four Feathers (2002), starring Heath Ledger and Kate Hudson.

Online editions

 * A E W Mason at Project Gutenberg Australia
 * A E W Mason at Project Gutenberg Australia
 * A E W Mason at Project Gutenberg Australia
 * A E W Mason at Project Gutenberg Australia
 * A E W Mason at Project Gutenberg Australia

title: A. E. W. Mason


text:
Cincinnati Museum Center

The Cincinnati Museum Center is a museum complex operating out of the Cincinnati Union Terminal in the Queensgate neighborhood of Cincinnati, Ohio. It houses museums, theater, a library, and a symphonic pipe organ, as well as special traveling exhibitions.

Museums
The museum provides a home to five organizations:
 * Cincinnati History Museum
 * Museum of Natural History & Science
 * Robert D. Lindner Family Omnimax Theater
 * Cincinnati History Library and Archives
 * Duke Energy Children's Museum

Museum of Natural History & Science
The Museum of Natural History & Science includes a space called Dinosaur Hall, featuring skeletons and fossils, including skeletons in the Galeamopus, Daspletosaurus, and Torvosaurus genera. The Torvosaurus skeleton, installed in 2018, is the most complete skeleton of the genus, at 55 percent complete, and the only Torvosaurus skeleton publicly exhibited.

The natural history museum also includes a reproduction of a limestone cave. The exhibit, titled "The Cave", was first installed as "The Cavern" in the museum's Gilbert Avenue location in 1967, ten years after the location opened. It was reinstalled in Union Terminal around 1994. It was designed to resemble Mammoth Cave National Park, the longest cave system in the world, in nearby Kentucky. Workers with extensive cave knowledge sculpted the cave from gunite. The exhibit has two levels and spans for 500 feet. It includes an underground stream and vertical cavities (dome pits), one of which is 40 feet high.

Exhibits
Holiday Junction is an annual rail-themed event at the museum center.

History
Beginning in the early 1980s, the Cincinnati Historical Society and Cincinnati Museum of Natural History were searching for larger spaces. Both had their origins in the early-mid 1800s, and the historical society was interested in creating a museum. The most favorable options in their studies were to join in occupying space in Union Terminal. In May 1986, the voters of the surrounding county approved $33 million in funding to transform the building into museum space. The state of Ohio provided $8 million, the city provided $3 million, while about 3,000 individuals, corporations, and foundations also donated to the effort. Talk show host and former Cincinnati mayor Jerry Springer was one of the major proponents of saving the building and transforming it into a museum. The terminal's 200,000 square feet of underground space, then used as parking space, as well as its taxi and bus ramps, were renovated into exhibition space. The main concourse was restored, retail space was refurbished, and the theater was restored. The entrance to the train concourse was renovated into the Omnimax theater, and the men's lounge became Amtrak's waiting room and ticket counter.

In 1986, the Union Terminal Association (UTA) was created to facilitate long-term preservation of the terminal. The organization included community members and city and county officials. The UTA leased the building from the city and searched for tenants. The UTA joined the Historical Society and Museum of Natural History in creating the Heritage Center at Union Terminal.

The first exhibit shown in the terminal was U.S.S.R.: Individual, Family, Society in February 1988, in a cultural agreement between US President Ronald Reagan and Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev.

The museum as a whole opened on November 10, 1990, though it had its "grand opening day" on November 2, 1991, with the two museum's first permanent exhibits there. The original members of the museum center were the Cincinnati Historical Society Library, Cincinnati History Museum, Cincinnati Museum of Natural History, and the Robert D. Lindner Family Omnimax Theater. The museum center opened with the largest display of robotic dinosaurs, the largest World War II commemorative exhibit, and one of fourteen Omnimax theaters in the United States. Museum center officials were unsure if people would travel to the new museums as predicted, though the center became the fourth-largest attraction in the area, behind the Cincinnati Reds, Kings Island, and the Cincinnati Zoo. The renovations included the installation of the Grand E.M. Skinner Concert Organ. In 1995, the entities officially merged to create the Cincinnati Museum Center, also joined by the Cinergy Children's Museum in October 1998.

In 2004, the county again approved an operating levy for the building's operating costs and capital repairs. In 2009, the museum center began a project to restore the southwest wing of the terminal, including new roofing, masonry repairs, a new HVAC system, and restoration of four dining rooms on the south side of the terminal. In 2009, county residents approved an extension of the 2004 levy for further repairs.

From July 2016 until November 2018, the museum was shut down in order to complete a $228 million renovation throughout the entire building, in addition to restoring numerous rooms original to the building. The renovation was approved by Hamilton County voters through an increased sales tax, bringing $176 million, and was also funded by $5 million in state grants, $7.5 million in donations, and $39 million in federal historic tax credits. It was the first full renovation of the building, after two smaller renovations that made the Land of Oz shopping center and the Cincinnati Museum Center operable. Original plans called for leaving the Duke Energy Children's Museum and the Cincinnati History Museum open, but it was decided to shutter the entire building after water damage proved to be more extensive than previously thought. During the closure, items located in the museum were stored in the Geier Center, the museum's research and storage facility, and in various traveling exhibits across the country.

The building and museum center had their reopening ceremony on November 17, 2018. The terminal expanded its foodservice contract from 2014 for operation of three dining rooms on the main concourse, two on the lower level, a retail shop, and other rotating operations. The main level operation Cup and Pint now serves pizzas, coffee, and draft beer, while Nourish 513 serves sandwiches, salads, and fast food. The Rookwood Tea Room reopened as a Graeter's location. In January 2019, the terminal gained another museum as a tenant, the Nancy & David Wolf Holocaust and Humanity Center, in the former space of the History Library.

Events
One of the museum center's largest events is its annual 1940s Day, a celebration of the decade, every year on the second weekend in August. The event includes a classic car show, swing dancing, big band music, and a vintage costume contest. The museum center began hosting 1940s-themed celebrations during its 75th anniversary celebration in 2008. It celebrates the 1940s, which was the peak passenger traffic period for Union Terminal, especially during World War II.

The museum center is also host to public speakers, including then-presidential candidate Hillary Clinton speaking alongside 2020 candidate Elizabeth Warren in 2016. Mitt Romney held his first presidential rally there in 2012, while then-candidate Barack Obama held a discussion on healthcare in 2008. Presidential nominee John Kerry gave a speech in 2004. In 2002, sitting president George W. Bush made his case for declaring war with Iraq. Presidential nominee and former vice president Joe Biden gave a speech at the terminal in 2020, amid the COVID-19 pandemic.

Beside speeches, vice president Dan Quayle visited the museum in 1991, and president Dwight D. Eisenhower was greeted by the public, prominent Republicans, and a band in 1952. President Harry S. Truman visited the terminal on five occasions between 1948 and 1952, and Franklin D. Roosevelt visited in 1936.

Collection
The museum center has a collection of materials relating to Union Terminal, including 14 of the architects' drawings of the terminal, the silver trowel used at the cornerstone laying in 1931, the gold key used by Cincinnati mayor Russell Wilson in dedicating the terminal in 1933, the dedication book published by the Cincinnati Chamber of Commerce, a collection of Union Terminal and Western Hills viaduct photographs taken between 1929 and 1933, a collection of construction photographs, source photographs for the Winold Reiss murals that decorate Union Terminal, Cincinnati Union Terminal Company records for 1940-1963 and 1968–1972, menus from the restaurants housed at Union Terminal, and papers from Save the Terminal Inc.

E.M. Skinner organ
The Grand E.M. Skinner Concert Organ is a blend of two former instruments. The primary instrument was the Skinner Opus 660, which was installed at Immaculate Conception Roman Catholic Church in East Germantown, a neighborhood of Philadelphia. The other portion is an antiphonal division, originally a smaller organ (Skinner Opus 726) in Powel Crosley Jr.'s Cincinnati residence, Pinecroft. The Opus 660 portion speaks from hidden chambers behind grills on either side of the hallway and stairs, grills that formerly fronted the terminal's ticket windows. The Opus 726 portion speaks from a chamber behind a window above the history museum entrance. Both instruments were built in 1929, when the station building began construction. The Skinner Opus 660 was sold to the museum center in 1987, which installed it during its 1990s renovations.

title: Cincinnati Museum Center


text:
Bursting Out

Bursting Out is a 1978 live double album by the rock band Jethro Tull. The album was recorded during the band's European Heavy Horses Tour in May/June of that year.

Background
The exact date for every single song has not been made public, but the introduction by Claude Nobs, most of "Flute Solo Improvisation", "Too Old to Rock 'n' Roll: Too Young to Die", "Aqualung", "Locomotive Breath" and "The Dambusters March" were recorded at the Festhalle in Bern, Switzerland, on May 28, 1978. The Bern show was recorded on a 24-track tape recorder, while the rest of the shows were recorded on a TEAC TASCAM 80-8 eight-track recorder. Ian Anderson recalled going through "hours and hours" of recordings in order to select the best takes. Additional sweetening was done at Maison Rouge Studio in June 1978.

Release
A spelling error on the spine of the first US, Canada, Spain and Sweden LP pressings listed the title as "Busting Out".

The album was later re-released as a double-disc CD in the UK and Europe. The original CD release in the United States was only one disc, with three tracks ("Quatrain", "Sweet Dream" and "Conundrum") omitted and some of the stage banter shortened to fit the 80 minutes running length. The double-disc 1990 CD version in the UK and Europe incorporated the first track, the introductions, in the song that followed. In 2004, the complete album was remastered and released worldwide as a two-disc set, with the introductions as separate tracks. A deluxe remixed edition was released June 21, 2024, incorporating new mixes of the Bern tracks that had been missing on the original album (but were released, albeit mixed by Jakko Jakszyk, on the "New Shoes Edition" of Heavy Horses) for a complete representation of the live setlist, previously unreleased soundcheck recordings and a remix of the Live at Madison Square Garden show, the latter also including the filmed footage on DVD.

Personnel

 * Ian Anderson – vocals, flute, acoustic guitar
 * Martin Barre – electric guitar, mandolin, marimba
 * John Glascock – bass guitar, additional electric guitar
 * John Evan – piano, organ, synthesizers, accordion
 * Dee Palmer – portative organ, synthesizers, saxophone
 * Barriemore Barlow – drums, percussion, glockenspiel.

title: Bursting Out


text:
Laguna Mountains

The Laguna Mountains are a mountain range of the Peninsular Ranges System in eastern San Diego County, southern California. The mountains run in a northwest/southeast alignment for approximately 35 mi.

The mountains have long been inhabited by the indigenous Kumeyaay people.

Geography
The Laguna Mountains are bordered by the Cuyamaca Mountains area on the west and the Colorado Desert on the east, where the mountains form a steep escarpment along the Laguna Salada Fault. To the north the Laguna Mountains are bounded by the Elsinore Fault Zone and to the south by Cameron Valley and Thing Valley.

The highest point is Cuyapaipe Mountain at 6378 ft. The mountains are largely contained within the Cleveland National Forest. Snow falls on the highest peaks several times a year. Mount Laguna is a village in the Laguna Mountains with a population of about 80.

The headwaters of three perennial streams begin in the Laguna Mountains: Noble Creek, Cottonwood Creek, and Kitchen Creek.

The Laguna Mountains extend northwest about 35 mi from the Mexican border at the Sierra de Juárez range. The Sawtooth Range and In-Ko-Pah Mountains are adjacent to the east. The Santa Rosa Mountains lie further to the northeast. The Cuyamaca Mountains are adjacent along the west.

The southern section is in the Mountain Empire region of San Diego County, and the northern section is in the East County region.

Recreation
The Laguna Mountains are a popular recreation area in the Cleveland National Forest. They comprise the southernmost crest along the Pacific Crest Trail.

Their relatively high altitude induces the highest snowfall in San Diego County making it one of the few local places to offer snow activities like sledding and snowshoeing.

title: Laguna Mountains


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Pratyutpanna Samādhi Sūtra

The Pratyutpanna Samādhi Sūtra (Sanskrit; ; Vietnamese: Kinh Bát Chu Tam Muội) is an early Mahayana Buddhist scripture, which probably originated between the 1st century BCE and 2nd century CE in the Gandhara area of northwestern India. The full title for this text is Pratyutpannabuddha Saṃmukhāvasthita Samādhi Sūtra, which translates to, "Sūtra on the Samādhi for Encountering Face-to-Face the Buddhas of the Present".

History
The Pratyutpanna Samādhi Sūtra was first translated into Chinese by the Kushan Buddhist monk Lokaksema in 179 CE, at the Han capital of Luoyang. This translation is, together with the Prajnaparamita Sutra, one of the earliest historically datable texts of the Mahayana tradition.

In 2018, the discovery of fragments of a birch bark manuscript in the Gāndhārī language and written in Kharoṣṭhī script was announced by scholars Paul Harrison, Timothy Lenz, and Richard Salomon, who wrote regarding the dating of the manuscript:

"In conclusion, the fragments of the PraS (Pratyutpanna Samadhi Sutra) clearly date from the middle period of Gāndhārī/Kharoṣṭhī documents, but as usual a more specific date cannot be proposed with any significant accuracy. The fragments could date from the first or second centuries CE, or possibly even from the first century BCE, since Gāndhārī manuscripts with similar characteristics have been dated by radiocarbon tests to BCE dates."

The post-script of the same paper notes that as the article went to press, scholar Mark Allon brought to the authors' attention "another set of birch-bark fragments, possibly from the same scroll or set of scrolls, containing a large section of Chapter 9 of the PRaS,", which the authors state will be included in a follow-up article in the future.

Contents
The Pratyutpanna Samādhi Sūtra contains the first known mentions of the Buddha Amitābha and his pure land, said to be at the origin of Pure Land Buddhism in China:

"Bodhisattvas hear about the Buddha Amitābha and call him to mind again and again in this land. Because of this calling to mind, they see the Buddha Amitābha. Having seen him they ask him what dharmas it takes to be born in the realm of the Buddha Amitābha. Then the Buddha Amitābha says to these bodhisattvas: 'If you wish to come and be born in my realm, you must always call me to mind again and again, you must always keep this thought in mind without letting up, and thus you will succeed in coming to be born in my realm."

Pratyutpanna samadhi
The full practice developed by Zhiyi is 90 days long. Lay practitioners often take a much shorter time. Any practice that exceeds one day requires a bystander called a dharma protector (護法) to look after the practitioner. The exercise includes constant walking or praying to Amitabha, sometimes accompanying or helped by the bystander. The practitioner should avoid sitting, laying, resting or sleeping during the period of practice. The bystander would warn the practitioner if he or she engages in prolonged resting. Very few Buddhists practice this. Shi Yinguang (印光) suggested that people should practice the much easier recitation of name of the Buddha nianfo instead. But some buddhists have said that they feel healthier after the practice.

title: Pratyutpanna Samādhi Sūtra


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File:Samoa - Salelologa market - people at Dawn.jpg

Photograph by --CloudSurfer 05:58, 3 Oct 2004 (UTC)


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title: File:Tlogmer.jpg


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The Broadsword and the Beast

The Broadsword and the Beast is the 14th studio album by rock band Jethro Tull, released in April 1982 by Chrysalis Records. The album's musical style features a cross between the dominant synthesizer sound of the 1980s and the folk-influenced style that Jethro Tull used in the previous decade. As such, the band's characteristic acoustic instrumentation is augmented by electronic soundscapes. The electronic aspects of this album would be explored further by the band on their next album, Under Wraps (1984), as well as on Ian Anderson's solo album Walk into Light (1983).

Paul Samwell-Smith produced the album, making The Broadsword and the Beast the first and only Jethro Tull album produced by an external producer outside of the band and their management. Early sessions for the album were produced by Keith Olsen, however Olsen was dismissed amid creative differences in December 1981 and did not receive a credit on the album. The album was the first Jethro Tull album to feature Peter-John Vettese on keyboards and Gerry Conway on drums.

Background and recording
After the conclusion of the A tour in late February 1981, Jethro Tull was in need of a new keyboardist and drummer, as keyboardist Eddie Jobson, who billed himself as a "special guest" when performing with Tull, and drummer Mark Craney had departed with the conclusion of the tour. Cat Stevens drummer Gerry Conway was recruited due to being a longtime acquaintance of the band as well as his connections to Fairport Convention, Tull bassist Dave Pegg's band. Anderson, Barre, Pegg and Conway began recording sessions in March 1981 at Maison Rouge Studios with Anderson playing keyboards, recording until July when the band took a four-month break. While the sessions had produced 15 tracks, only two ("Beastie" and "Watching Me, Watching You") would make it to the final album, with the rest cut as Anderson felt that "overall they didn't have a theme or a concept about them that was driving them towards a certain conclusion." In late summer, Peter-John Vettese was hired as the band's new keyboardist after answering an ad for the position placed in Melody Maker.

Chrysalis Records had suggested that the band pursue working with an outside producer on their next album. Canadian producer Bob Ezrin, known for his work with Pink Floyd, Kiss and Alice Cooper was initially selected, however after Ezrin had to pull out at the last minute, American producer Keith Olsen was selected. Recording resumed at Maison Rouge in November 1981 with the newly completed band and Olsen producing. The band quickly found Olsen's working style clashing with theirs; while Anderson described Olsen as "a nice enough chap" he described his method of recording with no equalization or effects as "a way of working that was completely alien to me". Other members of the band also found themselves in disagreement with Olsen, including Pegg who described Olsen's selection as "record company shite". The band were also disturbed that Olsen's "personal lifestyle choices were not those of the rest of us."

Former Yardbird Paul Samwell-Smith was ultimately brought in as a new producer for the album after a recommendation from Conway, who had previously worked with him in Cat Stevens' band. Samwell-Smith arrived in mid-December and the band recorded with him until the album was mastered in February 1982. Samwell-Smith, who described his role on the album as "very much a case of looking to Ian to see what he wanted and then to help him do it", was praised by the band who found him easy to work with. The album was the last recorded by Tull at Maison Rouge, as Anderson sold it in 1983.

The album was originally intended to be called Beastie, corresponding to the first track on side one. But during production, the band deliberated over the preference between Beastie and Broadsword, the first track on side two. In the end, they decided (as on Aqualung) to give each side its own title and thus its own identity, and this time to combine both in the album title.

Artwork and packaging
The cover art was illustrated by American artist Iain McCaig, a longtime fan of the band who later went on to work as a concept artist for successful film series including Star Wars, Harry Potter and the Marvel Cinematic Universe. McCaig was such a fan of the band that he cancelled a surprise trip to Paris where he planned to propose to his girlfriend so that he could get the job to design the cover. The art was made after McCaig visited Maison Rouge to meet the band and discuss the cover with Anderson, who gave McCaig a cassette of demos to listen to. McCaig has stated that he intentionally drew hidden "easter eggs" in the album art, including runes on the back cover which spell out the initials of McCaig's brother.

The edges of the front cover feature writing in Anglo-Saxon runes, which translate to the opening verse of the song "Broadsword": "I see a dark sail on the horizon, set under a black cloud that hides the sun. Bring me my broadsword and clear understanding. Bring me my cross of gold as a talisman."

Release
In 1984, Mobile Fidelity Sound Lab issued a half-speed mastered edition of the album (MFSL 1-092) which was a minor seller at the time.

The 2005 CD reissue of the album was heavily expanded to include eight bonus tracks recorded during the Broadsword sessions, but not included in the original 1982 album.

A greatly expanded, eight-disc (five CDs and three DVDs) re-release of the album titled The 40th Anniversary Monster Edition was released on September 1, 2023, featuring new stereo and surround remixes by Steven Wilson, additional demos and session recordings, plus a 1982 live concert. The re-release has been stated to be the last of the Steven Wilson anniversary box set series the band has released since 2011.

Live performance
The tour for Broadsword was the last of the band's to be exceedingly theatrical. It included the entire stage being decorated to look like a pirate ship, which Ian Anderson, as he said in the liner notes for the remastered CD, thought was "very silly". Extensive notes on the production of the album and subsequent tour can be found at the official Jethro Tull website.

In a 1982 concert review, Chris Welch reported: "Squire Anderson waved a huge broadsword dangerously near Martin's nether extremities during songs from their latest album (The Broadsword And The Beast), and punted huge exploding balloons out into the audience. But it was the roar of the band as they got into their heaviest moments that ultimately captivated an audience who seemed evenly mixed between 14-year-old novice Tull freaks and silver-haired rock business veterans. [...] Tull have a vast library of music to perform. They could have played on for another two hours and the audience would have been with them, cheering all the way."

"Cheerio", the final track of the original release, was for some years played as the final encore at Jethro Tull concerts.

Critical reception
The review by Kerrang! was ambiguous, calling the album tracks "emotional pieces of composition depending on how much attention you are prepared to give" but overall stated that "If you're a fan, buy it, it may have some pleasant surprises. If, like me, you're not, borrow it from someone who is. You might be surprised too". Rolling Stone magazine, in their two stars review stated: "There's nothing wrong with living in the past, perhaps. Indeed, Ian Anderson can make the wisdom of the ages seem preferable to the rootless philandering of the present day. But on The Broadsword and the Beast, the real beast may be Anderson's penchant for ponderous sermonizing." Bruce Eder of AllMusic was not too impressed with the album. Recalling the production and the music overall, he stated that "this time in the hands of ex-Yardbird Paul Samwell-Smith, is smoother, less heavy, and more thinly textured than their past work, and there are times – most especially on "Flying Colours" – where they could almost pass for the latter-day Moody Blues, something the band never would have permitted in earlier days".

Former Genesis guitarist Steve Hackett has stated that The Broadsword and the Beast is one of his favourite albums.

Overall sales for The Broadsword and the Beast were better than Stormwatch and A. The album charted at No. 14 in Germany and Norway, No. 19 in the United States and No. 27 in the UK, while the single "Fallen On Hard Times" was a modest hit, reaching No. 20 on the US Billboard Mainstream Rock Tracks Chart.

Track listing

 * The remastered CD added bonus tracks (which had been on the 20 Years of Jethro Tull box-set) and extensive liner notes. Further tracks from the same sessions (and not included on the remastered CD) are "Motoreyes" (from the 20 Years box) and "Crew Nights", "The Curse", "Commons Brawl", "No Step", "Drive On The Young Side of Life", and "Lights Out" from the outtakes album Nightcap.

Personnel
Jethro Tull
 * Ian Anderson – lead vocals, flute, acoustic guitar, Fairlight CMI
 * Martin Barre – acoustic guitar, electric guitar
 * Dave Pegg – backing vocals, bass guitar, mandolin
 * Peter-John Vettese – backing vocals, keyboards, piano, synthesizer
 * Gerry Conway – drums, percussion

Additional personnel
 * Robin Black – sound engineering
 * Jim Gibson – artwork
 * Leigh Mantle – assistant engineer
 * Iain McCaig – artwork, illustrations
 * Paul Samwell-Smith – producer

title: The Broadsword and the Beast


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Category:Roses

This is the category of the genus Rosa, the Roses, including all species and cultivars.

title: Category:Roses