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Texas Lutheran University

Texas Lutheran University (TLU) is a private Evangelical Lutheran university in Seguin, Texas.

History
The university traces its roots back to 1891 with the foundation of an academy, named Evangelical Lutheran College, by the first German Evangelical Lutheran Synod in Texas, in Brenham. Its first president was the Reverend Gottlieb Langner. That school accumulated crushing financial problems, but in 1912, it was rescued by an offer of 15 acres and $20,000 from local businessmen to relocate the academy to Seguin. Initially, the Lutheran College of Seguin, Texas, as it was newly named, had only one building on a bare former cotton field, with 46 students.

The academy reached junior college status in 1928 with accreditation from the Texas Department of Education. The Swedish Lutheran Trinity College of Round Rock was having trouble maintaining a minimum of 40 freshmen and 20 sophomores, so in 1929, it pooled its resources with the larger Seguin institution, bringing two professors and support from Swedish Lutherans. The combined school was renamed Texas Lutheran College in 1930. It became a four-year institution in 1948. Then, Texas Lutheran absorbed Clifton College of Clifton, a Norwegian Lutheran school in 1954, again gaining faculty and support from a larger base.

When the college received recognition in 1953 as a fully accredited senior college by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools, faculty and students rang the "Victory Bell" in celebration for hours. After 40 years of growth, the institution was once again renamed, taking its present title of Texas Lutheran University in 1996. Over the 100 years since moving to Seguin, TLU's span has increased to over 40 buildings and sports fields on 184 acres with about 1,400 students each semester.

Academics
Texas Lutheran University is ranked number five by the U.S. News & World Report 2022 Best West Regional Universities and is accredited by the Southern Association of Colleges and Schools Commission on Colleges. Specific programs are also accredited by ACBSP, CAATE, and TEAC.

Campus
The campus lies just off Interstate 10 on State Highway 46, between US Highway 90 and Alt US 90. The address is 1000 West Court St., which is also Alt. U.S. 90, and Seguin's main east-west street.

The campus occupies more than 40 buildings and athletic fields covering 184 acres, as well as a biology field station at neighboring Lake McQueeney. Located in the heart of the campus is the Chapel of the Abiding Presence. There are several residence halls, as well as on-campus apartments and family housing for students who are married or have children. Student and alumni art can be found throughout campus, and sections of the sidewalk are designed for bricks dedicated to Texas Lutheran University affiliates. Oaks and other trees shade the campus, and rows of flowering crape myrtles provide color.

Chapel of the Abiding Presence

The Chapel of the Abiding Presence (locally known as the Weinert Chapel after the principal donors) is located in the heart of the campus. The Gothic Revival building of Austin limestone was designed by ecclesiastical architect Henry Steinbomer of San Antonio in 1954. The Chapel is listed in the Historic Campus Architecture Project of the Council of Independent Colleges. After a fire in 1969, architect Ed Sovik from St. Olaf College in Minnesota supervised the rebuilding with a nontraditional interior.

Today, the sanctuary can seat 40 and hosts a tracker-action Schlicker organ. The chapel is used by campus organizations to hold various activities and services, as well as weddings of students and alumni.

Chapel services that last 20 minutes are open to the public. They are held Monday, Wednesday, and Friday at 10a.m.m during the academic year.

Other notable buildings
Also facing the quadrangle on the southwest corner was the Emma Frey Hall, a former women's dormitory in Spanish Colonial Revival style by noted architect Marvin Eichenroht in 1929. The building was the oldest on the campus and had been remodeled to serve as offices for computer science and mathematics faculty offices, as well as the honors programs. Emma Frey Hall was demolished in 2017.

On the east side is Langner Hall, named for the first president of TLU, and built to plans by Atlee B. Ayers in 1947. Today, it houses classrooms and faculty offices for the social science and humanities departments, as well as the Mexican American Studies Center the Fiedler Memorial Museum, and an outdoor geological garden.

Residence halls
TLU offers a variety of housing options for students, including residence halls and on-campus apartments. Residence halls are co-ed or single-sex, and separated by grade level. Co-ed residences include Centennial, Clifton, Baldus, Trinity, Hahn, and Seguin Halls. Freshman residences include Centennial, Baldus, Trinity, and Clifton Halls. Sophomore residences include Seguin Hall.

On-campus apartments include the North, South Efficiency, and Glazener apartments, as well as Bogisch family housing. All on-campus units except for Bogisch family housing, are available to junior and senior-level students. The North and South apartments are two-bedroom units and house up to four students. The North units are equipped with a full kitchen, and the South units include a kitchenette. Glazener apartments have two bedrooms with a full kitchen and house up to two students. Bogisch family housing is reserved for students who are married or have children and have two bedrooms with a full kitchen.

Centennial Hall is the newest residence hall and features traditional community bathrooms. The resident hall is co-ed, with 160 beds.

Alumni Student Center
The ASC is located at the north end of the quadrangle. Inside is the bookstore, Lucky's Kennel snack bar, lounges, meeting rooms, a post office for on-campus mail, student publications offices and labs, and an academic computer lab. The ASC has offices for counseling, career development, and student activities.

Blumberg Library
The Blumberg Library, which opened in 1970, is next to the Alumni Student Center. It includes over 262,000 items of library materials and subscribes to over 700 journal titles. It is a member of the Online Computer Library Center system and also provides an online public access catalog, which gives students access to databases in each academic discipline.

Hein Dining Hall
Hein Dining Hall, with cafeteria-style service and food stations, is the main dining hall. The Centennial Commons seats 350 and is the general dining area for students. Other smaller dining rooms are the Timmerman Room, Suehs Room, and Katie Conference Center, which are often used by campus and community groups for meetings.

Jackson Auditorium
Jackson Auditorium seats 1,050 and many of the special events at TLU, like the Krost Symposium or concerts, happen here. It is also used by the Mid-Texas Symphony and other community and church organizations.

Classrooms and other buildings
Other campus buildings include O. G. Beck College Center, Moody Science Building, Tschoepe Hall, Health Center, Krost Center, Lutheran Ministry Center, Moline Center for Student Leadership, and the newest, Centennial Hall—named in celebration of 100 years in Seguin—with ground floor classrooms and housing above.

Schuech Fine Arts Center is a multipurpose facility with a 200-seat theater, recital hall, band hall, music studios, art labs, and a gallery.

The Jesse H. Jones Physical Education Complex, named for the former United States Secretary of Commerce Jesse H. Jones, has a 2,200-seat gym for intercollegiate basketball and volleyball games, offices for faculty and coaches, locker rooms, racquetball courts, and an eight-lane collegiate-size swimming pool, as well as the Grossman Fitness Center, the Kieffer Kinesiology Laboratory, and Rinn Field House. The campus has intramural sports fields, the Gustafson Soccer Field, the Katt-Isbel Baseball Field, the Morck Softball Field, a putting green/driving range for the golf team, tennis courts, sandlot volleyball courts, a police department, and a maintenance complex.

A major expansion of intercollegiate sports was part of its 2013 Homecoming, when TLU officials broke ground for a football and track and field stadium, as well as a new and lighted softball field, lights for the baseball field (to allow night games), and a concession stand with toilets. The Bulldog teams began playing in the new facilities in 2014. The major expansion continued with the installation of lights for the Gustafson Soccer Field in 2015.

Student life
The Greek life opportunities for students include sororities and fraternities. The sororities include Beta Alpha Sigma, Xi Tau, Kappa Pi Gamma, and Sigma Delta Lambda. Fraternities include Sigma Phi Theta and Omega Tau.

Student organizations are offered in many areas on campus. Some are based on department, such as Athletic Training Club and Geography Club; Honorary Greek Organizations, such as Alpha Chi National Honors Society and Psi Chi Psychology Honors Society; Professional Organizations such as Alpha Kappa Psi National Business Fraternity and Student Education Association for Student Teachers; Band Service Fraternity and Sorority Kappa Kappa Psi, and Tau Beta Sigma; Campus Ministry and Religious Organizations such as Catholic Student Organization and Fellowship of Christian Athletes; Campus Organizations such as the Cheerleaders and the Student Government Association; Service and Social Organizations such as the Black Student Union and Mexican American Student Association; Theater Organizations such as Alpha Psi Omega, the theater honor society; Musical Organizations such as the variety of TLU choirs and TLU bands; Student Publications such as the Lone Star Lutheran Magazine and the Sidewalk; and others.

Sports
Almost one-third of full-time TLU students take part in one of the intercollegiate sports.

The Athletics Department includes baseball, softball, men's and women's basketball, men's and women's soccer, men's and women's golf, men's and women's tennis, volleyball, women's cross country, women's track & field, and recently football. All sports teams compete at the Division III level of the National Collegiate Athletic Association (NCAA) under the team name, the Bulldogs.

Starting July 1, 2013, Texas Lutheran University switched to a new conference, competing in the Southern Collegiate Athletic Conference, in all sports except football; as the SCAC does not have enough member schools with football teams. Meanwhile, the football team has been a member of the American Southwest Conference since the 2017 fall season (2017–18 school year), which it competed from the 1998 to 1999 fall seasons (1998–99 to 1999–2000 school years) as an affiliate; before becoming a full member of the ASC from 2000–01 to 2012–13. Texas Lutheran University claims two back-to-back national championships in football for the 1974 and 1975 seasons in the NAIA Division II Football National Championship. Both seasons were coached under legendary head coach Jim Wacker, who later went on to be a head coach at North Dakota State University (1976–1978), Southwest Texas State University, which is now Texas State University (1979–1982), Texas Christian University (1983–1991), and the University of Minnesota (1992–1996).

The schools in the SCAC are similar to TLU. Student-athletes receive no athletic scholarships. The others are Austin College in Sherman, Centenary College in Shreveport, Colorado College in Colorado Springs, University of Dallas in Irving, Schreiner University in Kerrville, Southwestern University in Georgetown, and Trinity University in San Antonio.

Lone Star Lutheran
The Lone Star Lutheran (LSL) has been a student-run newspaper on the TLU campus for many years. In 2011, the LSL changed to a magazine format before returning to its original publication format of a tabloid newspaper in 2013. The staff includes the editor-in-chief, managing editor, four copy editors, a website manager, and a variety of student writers from all departments. Additionally, TLU offers a student module that allows students to work on the LSL for class credit.

Bulldog TV
Bulldog TV is the cable channel that is all about TLU.

Christmas Vespers
In preparation for the Christmas holidays, the TLU choirs collaborate with the TLU band to host the annual Christmas Vespers services. This celebration of music and word honors the integral role music has played and is playing in Texas Lutheran curriculum and cultural history. The service is usually held four days in Seguin and one or two days in Austin to allow the campus and Seguin communities, as well as TLU families and the Austin community, the opportunity to attend the service.

Krost Symposium
Every year, Texas Lutheran hosts a symposium focusing on a particular new topic. This multi-day Krost Symposium event brings in guest speakers with a range of viewpoints and experiences on the chosen topic. The first Krost Symposium was held in 1981 and the program has continued annually without interruption ever since. Events are free and open to the public.

Notable alumni

 * Laurie Corbelli was a member of the TLU team that won the 1975 & 1976 AIAW Division II National Championship. She was a Silver Medalist with the 1984 U.S. Olympic Volleyball Team, and now is head coach of the Texas A&M Aggies women's volleyball team
 * Lee Eun-chul was a student from South Korea, who competed at five Olympic Games from 1984 to 2000. He was the Olympic Gold Medal winner at the 1992 Games in Barcelona.
 * Cameron Beckman graduated from TLU in 1993 and became a PGA Tour golfer. He earned his third PGA Tour title at the 2010 Mayakoba Golf Classic.
 * Alton Chung Ming Chan is a Grammy Award nominated concert pianist. He earned his undergraduate degree at TLU, and his Masters and PhD. at the University of North Texas College of Music.
 * Edmund Kuempel received a Bachelor of Business Administration from TLU. He was a Republican member of the Texas House of Representatives from Guadalupe County for some twenty-seven years until he died in 2010.
 * Steven Long attended Alvin Community College, Texas Lutheran College (now TLU), and Sam Houston State University. From 1977 until 1988, Long owned and published the In Between, a weekly newspaper in Galveston. After closing the In Between, Long worked for the Houston Chronicle for six years and was later assigned by the New York Post to cover high-profile cases, such as the case of Andrea Yates, and the fall of Enron.
 * Verne Lundquist graduated from Texas Lutheran College (now TLU) in 1962. Lundquist, called "the Golden Voice", is currently a play-by-play sportscaster by CBS Television Sports, covering college football and baseball, as well as major golfing events. In 2007 he was inducted into the Hall of Fame of the National Sportscasters and Sportswriters Association.
 * Steve Lutz Division 1 head men’s basketball coach for Texas A&M Corpus Christi and an assistant for Purdue and Creighton. Graduated from Texas Lutheran with a Bachelor in Secondary Education.
 * Don Mischer is a producer and director of television and live events. He attended TLU and graduated from the University of Texas at Austin in 1961. He has won fifteen Emmy Awards, ten Directors Guild of America Awards for Outstanding Directorial Achievement, two NAACP Image Awards, a Peabody Award for excellence in broadcasting, and the 2012 Norman Lear Achievement Award in Television from the Producers Guild of America.
 * Faton Bislimi graduated from TLU with a B.S. in computer science and a B.A. in math. Bislimi wrote for the Albanian daily Bota So and worked with the Albanian-American Civic League. He wrote two books, a compilation of math problems and a series of journalistic writings titled Në Rrugëtim me Kosovën: Tatëpjetat dhe të Përpjetat. He founded The Bislimi Groutoto to offer better education opportunities to Kosovar students, and 13 full scholarships have been awarded through The Bislimi Group.
 * Chris Elley graduated from TLU with a B.A. in Communication Studies, and earned a Master's in Mass Communications from Texas State University. Elley is the founder and current Director of Austin, Texas-based film production company Electro-Fish Media Inc. He holds two Emmy Awards and two additional nominations.
 * Scott Seely, B.A. in church music, bishop suffragan of the Anglican Diocese of All Nations.
 * Jeff Hiller, actor and comedian, B.A. 1998

title: Texas Lutheran University


text:
User talk:Satanovski

Please don't delete Cleanup headers until the article is actually cleaned up. RickK 06:06, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)

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license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Satanovski


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User talk:Alina~enwiki

Welcome
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Edgar Sampson

Edgar Melvin Sampson (October 31, 1907 – January 16, 1973), nicknamed "The Lamb", was an American jazz composer, arranger, saxophonist, and violinist. Born in New York City, he began playing violin aged six and picked up the saxophone in high school. He worked as an arranger and composer for many jazz bands in the 1930s and 1940s. He composed two well-known jazz standards: "Stompin' at the Savoy", and "Don't Be That Way".

Life and career
Born in New York City, Sampson began his professional career in 1924 with a violin piano duo with Joe Colman. Through the rest of the 1920s and early 1930s, Sampson played with many bands, including those of Charlie "Fess" Johnson, Duke Ellington, Rex Stewart and Fletcher Henderson.

In 1934, Sampson joined the Chick Webb band. It during his period with Webb that Sampson created his most enduring work as a composer, writing "Stompin' at the Savoy" and "Don't Be That Way". He left the Webb band in 1936 with a reputation as a composer and arranger that led to freelance work with Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw, Red Norvo, Teddy Hill, Teddy Wilson and Chick Webb.

Edgar Sampson became a student of the Schillinger System in the early 1940s. He continued to play sax through the late 1940s and started his own band (1949–51). In the late 1940s through the 1950s, he worked with Latin performers such as Marcelino Guerra, Tito Rodríguez and Tito Puente as an arranger. Sampson recorded one album under his own name, Swing Softly Sweet Sampson, in 1956. Due to illness, he stopped working in the late 1960s.

His daughter, Grace Sampson, studied music and co-wrote the standard "Mambo Inn" with Mario Bauzá and Bobby Woodlen.

Compositions and arrangements
(Source: Liner notes from Swing Softly Sweet Sampson, Coral Record CRL 57049 (1957)
 * "Dark Rapture" (Edgar Sampson, Benny Goodman, Manny Kurtz)
 * "If Dreams Come True" (Edgar Sampson, Benny Goodman, Irving Mills)
 * "Lullaby in Rhythm" (Edgar Sampson, Benny Goodman, Clarence Profit, Walter Hirsch)
 * "Stompin' at the Savoy" (Edgar Sampson, Benny Goodman, Chick Webb, Andy Razaf)
 * "Hoopdee Whodee (Edgar Sampson)
 * "I'll Be Back for More" (Edgar Sampson, Candido Camero, Sammy Gallop)
 * "Happy and Satisfied" (Edgar Sampson, Walter Bishop)
 * "Cool and Groovy" (Edgar Sampson)
 * "Blue Lou" (Edgar Sampson, Irving Mills)
 * "The Blues Made Me Feel This Way" (Edgar Sampson)
 * "Light and Sweet" (Edgar Sampson, Bill Hardy)
 * "The Sweetness of You" (Edgar Sampson)
 * "Don't Be That Way" (Edgar Sampson, Benny Goodman, Mitchell Parish)

title: Edgar Sampson


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User talk:TomScanlan

Welcome
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Diorite
Hi; thanks for your great additions to the previously deficient diorite article. I very much appreciate it. :) Cheers, -- Hadal 04:43, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:TomScanlan


text:
User talk:R1CH

Welcome
Hello,, welcome to Wikipedia.

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title: User talk:R1CH


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Talk:The Skulls (film)

Deletion discussion, 2004
from VfD:

Lurid fantasy. No definite time, place, or persons in sight. Wile E. Heresiarch 06:13, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: It reads like some odd sort of hazing ritual. Seeing as it's been made relevant, Keep! -- [[User:Bobdoe| Bob Doe ]] 22:22, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * The Skulls should be about the year 2000 movie of that name. Currently the article presents (most likely) fictional details from the plot as facts. Weak keap, provided someone converts it to be about the movie before VfD expiration, otherwise delete. We already have Skull and Bones for the secret society that inspired the movie makers and also The Skulls and Bones Conspiracy (which is a complete unwikified mess; I listed it in cleanup), so this article is currently an inaccurate duplicate of the material presented elsewhere in pedia. jni 07:07, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * The rewritten version is okay, keep. jni 05:37, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete. utcursch 08:27, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete Keep, since it has been rewritten. --Viriditas 23:46, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, but should be heavily edited to be about movie of this title. --Daniel C. Boyer 12:57, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * You mean completely replaced? Delete. --Improv 18:12, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Keep if and only if rewritten to be a proper article about the movie prior to expiration of VfD discussion. jni said. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 14:42, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC) Keep rewrite and thanks, SimonP. [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 23:30, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * "Second, the initiates are drugged, stripped to their underwear, laid in a coffin. and buried under an inch of dirt." Either there's some cross-pollination of ideas, or someone has confused The Skulls with the evil vampires in Vampires: The Masquerade At any rate, it looks like SimonP has done a complete rewrite about the movie, so Keep. - RedWordSmith 18:19, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep rewrite. Everyking 19:35, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, vfd no longer applies as it was rewritten. — siro  χ  o  19:48, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep article on film.   — Gwalla | Talk 00:18, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, of course, and stop deletion trolls. Intrigue 21:42, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. --L33tminion 01:54, Oct 19, 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion

title: Talk:The Skulls (film)


text:
User talk:Musark

Welcome
Hello,, welcome to Wikipedia.

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title: User talk:Musark


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User talk:Jikayo~enwiki

Hi Jikayo,

I've got some questions at Image talk:Y-NL400b.gif. Can you come and take a look? -- ran [[User talk:Ran|(talk)]] 06:13, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)

No copyright explanation
The picture doesn't include a tag indicating the basis for allowing its use on Wikipedia. It is copyrighted by Sinolect.org and specifically says on the image itself that all rights are reserved. --Beirne 10:32, Apr 22, 2005 (UTC)

Image:Northwu31.png
I've listed Image:Northwu31.png on Wikipedia:Copyright problems because you didn't specify any copyright information when you uploaded it, and the image itself says, "Copyright (c) 2005 Sinolect.org. All rights reserved." IceKarmaॐ 00:44, 2005 May 14 (UTC)

Your account will be renamed
Hello,

The developer team at Wikimedia is making some changes to how accounts work, as part of our on-going efforts to provide new and better tools for our users like cross-wiki notifications. These changes will mean you have the same account name everywhere. This will let us give you new features that will help you edit and discuss better, and allow more flexible user permissions for tools. One of the side-effects of this is that user accounts will now have to be unique across all 900 Wikimedia wikis. See the announcement for more information.

Unfortunately, your account clashes with another account also called Jikayo. To make sure that both of you can use all Wikimedia projects in future, we have reserved the name Jikayo~enwiki that only you will have. If you like it, you don't have to do anything. If you do not like it, you can pick out a different name. If you think you might own all of the accounts with this name and this message is in error, please visit Special:MergeAccount to check and attach all of your accounts to prevent them from being renamed.

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Chʼol language

The Ch'ol (Chol) language is a member of the western branch of the Mayan language family used by the Ch'ol people in the states of Chiapas, Tabasco, and Campeche in Mexico. This language, together with Chontal, Ch'orti', and Ch'olti', constitute the Cholan language group.

The Cholan branch of the Mayan languages is considered to be particularly conservative and Ch'ol along with its two closest relatives the Ch'orti' language of Guatemala and Honduras, and the Chontal Maya language of Tabasco are believed to be the modern languages that best reflect their relationship with the Classic Maya language.

Ch'ol-language programming is carried by the CDI's radio station XEXPUJ-AM, broadcasting from Xpujil, Campeche.

Dialects
There are two main dialects of Chʼol:
 * Chʼol of Tila spoken by 43,870 people of whom 10,000 are monolinguals in the villages of Tila, Vicente Guerrero, Chivalito and Limar in Chiapas.
 * Chʼol of Tumbalá spoken by 90,000 people of whom 30,000 are monolinguals in the villages of Tumbalá, Sabanilla, Misijá, Limar, Chivalita and Vicente Guerrero.

Alphabet
Chʼol writers have agreed upon the following alphabet, based on the Latin alphabet, proposed and developed by Diaz Peñate in 1992.

Relationship with Mayan glyphs
The absence of glyphic material in Guatemala points that the calendar was a creation of the lowland Maya. Ch'ol has been considered one of the closer languages to several Mayan glyphs inscriptions. Lounsbury suggested that the ancient Palenqueños spoke a Proto-cholean language. A certain Palenque ruler has the glyph of a Quetzal head for his name and because the word for Quetzal in Chol is kuk, it is conjectured that his name was Lord Kuk. The affix Landa's I that occurs only with posterior date indicators retains resemblance with the idea of past time of Ch'ol, such in hobix 'five days hence,' hobixi 'five days ago.' As vocabularies of Ch'ol, Chontal, Chorti, and Tzotzil are far from complete, it is not possible to establish some cognates between these languages and Mayan glyphs.

An alternative hypothesis developed by Houston, Robertson, and Stuart proposed that Classic Maya inscriptions between A.D. 250 and 850 convey to Eastern Ch'olan languages, more related to Chorti language than Ch'ol language. However, there is no consensus around the topic.

Consonants
There are 21 consonantal segments in Chʼol. Below is the consonant inventory of Chʼol. Corresponding orthography is presented in the angle brackets next to the IPA symbols.

For the segments in the palatal column, [, ] are palatalized alveolar consonants, and [, ] are palato-alveolar affricates. Another property of the consonant inventory is that only the labial has a voiced segment [b], which corresponds to the voiced bilabial implosive [ɓ] in Proto-Mayan.

Alveolar sounds [, ] are only heard as allophones of /, /.

Vowels
Chʼol has a six vowel system, as shown below in the vowel inventory.

The vowel ä is a distinctive segment in Chʼol, as in other Chʼolan languages. According to Kaufman and Norman (1984), long vowels in the Proto-Mayan language merged with their short counterparts in Chʼolan languages, except for *aa (long) and *a (short). These segments went under a sound change, in which *aa became a and *a became ä.

Syllable Structure
Chʼol can have CV, CVC, CVCC, CCVC, CCVCC as possible syllable structures. The most common ones are CV and CVC.

Like many other Mayan languages, Chʼol does not allow onsetless syllables, which means words that appear to start with vowel in fact have a glottal stop as the onset.

Although complex onsets and complex codas exist, the former only occur across morpheme boundaries, and the latter are limited to jC.

Stress
The main stress of a word typically falls on the ultima in Chʼol. This is true for most of the bisyllabic native words and polysyllabic loanwords. In the following examples, the stress is indicated by an acute accent on the nucleus.

Compound words also have the main stress on the ultima. A secondary stress, indicated by a grave accent, can be heard in the first part of a compound word. This weak stress usually goes on the ultima of the first part.

Affixation
Affixation is the main way of word formation in Chʼol. There are prefixes, infixes and suffixes. Suffixes are considerably more abundant than the other two.

Prefixes
There are two derivational prefixes – the noun class markers aj- and x-. The former can go with proper names, nominalize verbs, and be prefixed to some terms that refer to animals. The latter can also go with proper names and with the name of some animals, but additionally it can be prefixed to the name of some trees and plants.

In addition, Set A inflections are prefixed to nouns (10a) and verbs (10b).

Infixes
Infixation is used for passivization and as a mean of deriving numeral classifiers. First, some transitive roots reduce valence by infixing -j- into the root. This process is accompanied by a reduction of the number of core arguments from two to one, and the remaining argument referring to the patient is the subject of the verb.

For the other use of infixation, the derivations come mostly from positionals and verbs.

Suffixes
There are many suffixes in Chʼol since suffixation is the main way of derivation and inflection. For instance, the suffix -añ on nouns can derive intransitive verbs. The suffix -is causativizes some intransitive verbs. The suffix -b derives ditransitive verbs, and -ty derives some intransitive verbs by passivization of the corresponding transitive verb.

Case marking
Like almost all other Mayan languages, Ch'ol has two sets of person markers: ergative and absolutive. The Mayan tradition is to label the former as Set A and the latter as Set B. Chʼol is a split ergative language: its morphosyntactic alignment varies according to aspect. With perfective aspect, ergative-absolutive alignment is used, whereas with imperfective aspect, we rather observe nominative-accusative.

Set A markers are generally considered as suffixes; however, Martínez Cruz (2007) and Arcos López (2009) categorized them as proclitics. These markers usually denote the agents of transitive verbs. Note that all markers have phonologically conditioned allomorphs: 1st singular marker changes from k to j when it precedes another k, and 2nd singular and 3rd singular markers have glides inserted when they precede consonants.

Set B markers are suffixes. These markers usually denote the patients of transitive verbs or the core arguments of intransitive verbs.

The exclusive 1st plural marker has a shorter form loñ and a longer form lojoñ. Both are used interchangeably, except when it is attached before a singular marker, in which case only the shorter form is allowed. The plural suffix -ob is often realized as -o' in speech.

Verbal predicates
The basic word order is VOS. However, word order varies and VOS is not always grammatical: factors including animacy, definiteness, topicalization and focus contribute to determining which word order is appropriate. A Ch'ol simple transitive phrase is comprised minimally of a single transitive verb in the form of [ASP Set A + Verb + Set B]. In the case of non-agentive intransitive verbs, the cross-reference of the single argument is accomplished with either Set A or Set B depending on the aspect of the verb. Verbal predicates can have the following aspects: perfective, imperfective, progressive, inceptive, terminative, and potential.

Transitive verbs
Within Chʼol transitive verbs, there exist two primary categories: simple forms and derived forms. The former modifies the primary arguments within the verb by cross-referencing the transitive subject in Set A and the object in Set B. In the perfective aspect, this category incorporates a status suffix, which is a vowel in harmony with the root vowel. Conversely, the imperfective aspect does not take such status suffix. To form derived transitive verbs, the suffix -V or -Vñ is appended, based on the aspect. Unlike the simple forms, the suffix does not need to be in harmony with the root vowel. The direct arguments in this category are identified via Set A and Set B inflections.

Non-verbal predicates
This construction does not take aspect markers, in contrast to verbal predicates. It can be headed by nouns, adjectives, positionals, etc. The core argument only takes Set B markers.

title: Chʼol language


text:
Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Alberuni

In order to remain listed at Requests for comment, at least two people need to show that they tried to resolve a dispute with this user and have failed. This must involve the same dispute, not different disputes. The persons complaining must provide evidence of their efforts, and each of them must certify it by signing this page with ~. If this does not happen within 48 hours of the creation of this dispute page (which was: {insert UTC timestamp with }), the page will be deleted. The current date and time is:, 29 July 2024 (UTC).

 * (Alberuni | talk | contributions)

Statement of the dispute
Alberuni has made many ad hominem statements on Talk: page and has violated some primary Wikipedia rules, including (but certainly not limited to) No personal attacks, Civility, and Assume good faith.

Description
Alberuni has made many ad hominem statements on Talk: page and has violated some primary Wikipedia rules, including (but certainly not limited to) No personal attacks, Civility, and Assume good faith. In a number of cases he has knowingly made false statements about people's actions, in particular accusing Jayjg of re-directing articles which he was aware Jayjg never re-directed, or of "stalking" him to pages which Jayjg had been editing before he had ever edited them. Though various editors have requested he cease this behaviour, and instead reserve the Talk: pages for discussions of article content, and work collegially in editing articles, instead he has ignored these requests and defended his actions.

Evidence of disputed behavior
(provide diffs and links)

Abusive Talk: page comments

 * 1) Jayjg you have not made your case, why do you persist in your petty edit war: You backtracked on your mocking claim (a) above that this human rights organization is partisan even though you complained that it was too hard for you to bother reading their annual report to find evidence that they investigate abuses impartially. Yet, you persist in trying to neutralize their legitimacy simply because your Zionist POV is offended that a human rights organization is critical of Israelis for their atrocities against Palestinians. You know, when teh Nazis were oppressing the Jews, I'm sure there were complicit apologists like you complaining that the Red Cross is partisan and can't be trusted. As an aside, is your life so utterly meaningless that the best you can do is follow my Wikipedia activity to in oreder to take slim satisfaction in trying to annoy me with your reverts, deletes, and POV edits of my pages. Why don't you leave me alone, you annoying little Jayjgboy? Alberuni 01:03, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) ...Your POV pushing is outrageous and reprehensible and you do this all the time, day in and day out like some traumatized Holocaust survivor. Except when you are editing pages to promote your views of circumcision(+) and Jesus(-). You seem to think your view is the only authorized view and no one else has a right to an opinion. You refuse to discuss issues and just keep pushing your POV. You have no more authority than anyone else Jayjg. You need help Jayjg, serious mental help from a competent Jewish psychiatrist, like your father. Alberuni 01:23, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Someone thinks he is defending Israel by distorting history and/or he thinks his virulent Zionist POV is God's truth and objectivity is a threat to the Jewish state. I support HistoryBuffER. This article needs a big POV warning. I can't believe someone has the gall to insert completely biased and inflammatory language and then remove the POV warning. Such chutzpah! Alberuni 04:15, 26 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) If the logic of including Israelis in the OT has nothing to do with the Israeli occupation of the OT then why don't you include the numbers of Israelis living in the USA, Europe, Asia, Africa, etc? Please do not begin your ad hominem attacks by accusing me (or others with whom you disagree) of turning these pages into a venue for promoting political agendas. I won't return the charges although it is quite clear that you suffer severe biases and a conceited arrogance that you need to check at the door. You are not an objective arbiter of objectivity. Your brand of extremism is easily recognized. You are POV incarnate. Alberuni 01:22, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) ...Whatever wrongs you think have been done to the "Jewish nation," spewing Zionist propaganda throughout Wikipedia pages only serves to perpetuate negative stereotypes about the "Jews". You should heed your own advice - although I doubt you (plural) have the ability to perceive your arrogance and deep bias. And so the conflict continues. Alberuni 01:54, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) ...Do you consider your continuous hasbara campaign to be in Wikipedia's best interest? Why don't you go edit some articles about issues unrelated to Israel and the Jews, for a change? Too much to ask? Alberuni 05:30, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) ...I'm sure you can offer some official justification to erase Israel's bloody culpability and paint Israel in as rosy a light as possible. It's not an ad hominem attack, just an observation of your pattern. Alberuni 05:56, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 8) ...Yes, I thought it was well known that the Phalangists were armed and supervised by the IDF, the IDF was responsible for the safety of the refugees, and the IDF allowed them to be massacred by proxy. Maybe you need a long rest? Alberuni 06:23, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 9) ...The continuous effort to edit, delete, obstruct, manipulate, minimize and whitewash Israeli crimes is a glaring example of a political bias being foisted on Wikipedia by advocates of Zionism. Alberuni 15:17, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 10) ...Excuse me if I don't bother to answer your "challenges" in the future. If you request information or wish to engage in sincere open-minded dialogue, I might respond. Condescension, patronizing arrogance, and narrow-minded Zionist POV pushing will go unanswered. Alberuni 14:23, 29 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 11) Jayjg please refrain from stalking and unnecessary edits: I know Wikipedia is a collaborative effort but you are making edits that add no significant value or new information apparently just so you can "have the last word". Control issues should be checked. Alberuni 05:36, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 12) After we had our Talk/Israel disagreements over whether Palestinians should have their demographic existence in OT recognized as much as the Israelis who live in the OT, you came to the Hamas page and made a series of totally unnecessary reversions to my edits, reversions to your reversions, etc regarding Israel's assassination yesterday and Hamas goals. Your edits added nothing and were, in fact, awkwardly worded and poorly composed. You made them out of simple spiteful editorial bias, to erase my work. You always want the final word and the article must fit your pro-Israeli POV. I suspect you are hoping to drive people away from Wikipedia who don't share your narrow views. It is immature and destructive behavior. I will continue working on various pages and hope for you to mature. Alberuni 06:12, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * 13) The territories are not considered merely "disputed" by anyone except those with the POV of militant Israelis who hope to annex more Arab land to the Jewish state. To the rest of the world, the territories are recognized as Occupied Territories because they are militarily occupied by Israel even though Israel has no legal claim to the land. It would be funny if it wasn't so tragic to see the hypocrisy and self-serving mendacity of Zionists decrying the legitimacy of UN territorial dispute adjudication when it was the UN that created the modern state of Israel in the first place. Alberuni 15:26, 10 Oct 2004 UTC)
 * 14) You have not improved. Your edits reflect a narrow-minded, virulently Zionist POV. You are not amenable to NPOV edits that offend your Zionist sensibilities. You stalk my history of contributions looking to revert edits with which you disagree. Your tone is condescending and patronizing. Interacting with you is far and away the worst part of my Wikipedia experience to date. Alberuni 01:48, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 15) There is little point in discussing issues with a dishonest pro-Israeli propagandist. The reason why Israelis prefer "disputed" to "occupied" is well-known by anyone who has been following the issue . Alberuni 02:50, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 16) "Confusing"? Like the legal status of the Occupied Territories is "confusing and disputed" to you? It's always someone else's fault, isn't it? Try to keep up. Alberuni 03:25, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 17) Now you are disagreeing yourself. "The legal status of them confusing and disputed, which is why "disputed" is the best term. Jayjg 14:43, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)" I'll just leave you two alone. Alberuni 04:11, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 18) This article disagrees with your interpretations of international law Jayjg: Why don't you address the issue instead of categorically regurgitating Zionist propaganda as if it was fact? By the way, when did you stop claiming that "there is no such thing as a Palestinian?" Are you able to keep up with this confusing comment? Alberuni 04:18, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 19) Please stop telling me what to do. You are extremely arrogant and condescending. I was responding to your off-topic anti-Arab hasbara propaganda about Jewish wealth that was accumulated in Arab countries but that you credit to colonial powers.The point is that Jews, many of them wealthy, lived in Arab countries alongside their fellow Arabs until the Euro-American Zionist creation of the Jewish state on Palestinian land created a conflict between Arabs and Jews that made Arab Jews unwelcome in the land they lived on for 1000s of years. You want to have it both ways, always. YOU are the one who is not discussing your reverts. Why the gratuitous slap at the UN and UNRWA? Why compare Jewish refugees from Arab countries who were absorbed by Israel to Palestinian refugees who were dispossessed by the creation of Israel? It's totally irrelevant and petty. What makes you think you own these pages? Why are alternative, let alone opposing, points of view edited out? These are relevant questions for a Talk page. Alberuni 02:36, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 20) Your gratuitous reversions of comparison between UN aid to victims of Israel and refugees to Israel is irrelevant. Please stop your childish reversions until this is resolved. Alberuni 04:37, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 21) I have provided a reason, you are just not listening, as usual. The comparison between UN aid to victims of Israel and refugees to Israel is irrelevant. What is its relevance to Jewish refugees? Alberuni 04:56, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 22) They are not corrolary cases. Israel confiscated the land of Palestinians for the use of Jewish refugees. Palestinians did not receive the Arab Jews' land when they immigrated to Israel. Palestinians remained refugees. Jews were absorbed by the new country built on Palestinian land. This line looks more like a petty complaint that the Jews did not get money from UNRWA aid "unlike the Palestinians" - as if the Palestinians got the better deal. Is there any use discussing issues with you? Alberuni 05:11, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 23) There is no reason, not even for your beloved Jewish state, why Palestinian refugees should have been displaced from their homeland and forced to be absorbed by Arab, European, American or other countries. The article does not reflect those facts. The article makes a swipe at UNRWA as if to say that Jewish refugees with a country to settle were more industrious than Palestinians who were kicked out of their country to make way for those very same Jews. It's your typical Zionist propaganda. Do you ever look in the mirror and question why you are the way you are? Alberuni 05:32, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 24) OK Jayjg, tell me again that you are not stalking my edits to promote your Zionist POV. Alberuni 01:01, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 25) Stalking my edits again like a vulture? Human rights organizations like the Red Cross also seemed very partisan to the Nazis, for obvious reasons. Alberuni 04:29, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 26) What kind of organism perceives human rights to be a partisan issue? Do you consider B'Tselem partisan? Amnesty International? Human Rights Watch? Yet, to you, Al-Mezan must be partisan because they are located in a refugee camp created by your beloved Jewish state. Alberuni 05:02, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 27) Al-Mezan refers to "Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT)" so I created a page to reference it. Jayjg immediately redirected it, then listed it for deletion. The reason he is hounding me is because we argued over whether Hamas being labelled a terrorist organization is NPOV on the Hamas talk page and we argued about other issues on Arab-Israeli, israel, and other pages. He got so offended that he went on a passive/aggressive witch-hunt against me. Jayjg began looking up all my edits and page creations and began undermining the ones that offend his Zionist perspective. His behavior is ridiculously abusive. I try to take him to the Talk page but he just bull-headedly assumes that his view is the only valid view. It is nearly impossible to communicate with him. I noticed that User:Blankfaze previously noticed his abusive behavior too. I am learning about the Dispute Resolution procedures and have started instituting them. Alberuni 19:46, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 28) The grossly Zionist POV editors are still disputing the very existence of the Palestinian people let alone the illegal Israeli occupation. Yet, Wikipedia hosts long diatribes about Occupation of the West Bank and East Jerusalem by Jordan and Occupation of the Gaza Strip by Egypt. You guys need to wake up!! Wikipedia has become an Israeli textbook on issues of the Mideast because Zionists are systematically pushing their extremist POV down Wikipedians' throats and no one has the balls to stand up to them. Alberuni 17:06, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 29) Thanks for the patronizing advice. You should follow it too, OK? Alberuni 20:41, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 30) At least you are honest about your pro-Israel Wikipedia editing. That's refreshing. And our communication on the Jewish refugees Talk page was civil, wasn't it? You accepted my minor NPOV edits in an open-minded manner despite the very deep-seated pro-Israel POV throughout your subject matter. So if there is nothing wrong with being a Zionist propagandist, then why is pointing out pro-Isreali bias considered hate speech? Regarding your kind thoughts for the surviving Palestinians in diaspora and, I'm sure also those who have been killed (some today!) to make living space for the more important refugees, the circle closes as I'm reminded of similar cheery advice from a bygone era; "werk macht frei". Alberuni 06:05, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 31) Hello! Now we are getting to the crux of the problem. You, and you are not alone, see all Palestinians as "terrorists" and so, of course, it is acceptable to gun them all down in self-defense. That's the logic that makes possible Jenin, Jabalia, Auschwitz and Buchenwald. Alberuni 06:24, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 32) I see. You consider my pointing out the difference between Judaism the religion and Zionism the nationalist political ideology as "uncivilized". I think this says more about you and your work on manipulating content in Wikipedia than it does about me. Alberuni 14:00, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 33) I'm having problems dealing with a biased administrator User:Jayjg. See history and Talk page at Al-Mezan Center for Human Rights for an example. He follows me around, reverts many edits dealing with the Mideast, redirects pages and nominates pages for Votes for deletion in an effort to promote his Zionist POV on Wikipedia pages. What can be done about admins who abuse Wikipedia NPOV policy and harass other Wikipedians? Alberuni 17:45, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 34) You can see that Jayjg is stalking my edits on multiple pages, even to your Talk page. He redirected Occupied Palestinian Territories without even bothering to discuss it on the Talk page. He has systematically tried to revert many of my edits and new page creations of the past 24 hours for purely political purposes. Is this the way Wikipedia administrators are suppose to behave? Alberuni 01:15, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 35) Your description of manipulative passive/aggressive behavior is accurate, in my opinion. Some people are like insects. It's better to just ignore them as in WP Dispute Resolution step 1. "Avoidance: The best way to resolve a dispute is to avoid it in the first place." Alberuni 15:04, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 36) ...Instead of constantly butting your head against the revert button like it's the Wailing Wall, why don't you "improve" it with your usual Zionist POV slant? Alberuni 03:13, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 37) Of course, that's the official hasbara line from Tel Aviv central office... Alberuni 03:19, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 38) You don't make those kind of edits, do you? Rubs you the wrong way? Alberuni 03:20, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 39) Are you sure that Israel was not involved in any way with the US war on Iraq and Afghanistan? You would think that Israel would be a better ally and stand up with the US in its time of need. Why wouldn't Israel marshal its resources to help the USA, its best friend in the world to attack Iraq, Israel's declared enemy with whom they were in a state of war? It really is a big mystery, isn't it Jayjg? Makes you wonder what good they are after all the $100 billion we've given them (er "you all").....I wonder why...... Alberuni 03:29, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Alberuni continues to violate the policies
Here is his response, with clear violations of No personal attacks, Civility, and Assume good faith highlighted:

I feel as though User:Jayjg is on a witchhunt against me, pursuing me throughout Wikipedia, making unnecessary, innaccurate, and worst of all, extremely POV edits to many many articles on which I have labored with a very NPOV approach. On the Talk pages, I have expressed an anti-Zionist POV (for instance, I wrote that "Islamism is to Islam as Zionism is to Judaism" meaning that both are extremist ideologies of religious nationalism) and this has apparently infuriated Jayjg, among others, who are extremely ardent Zionists. To punish me for expressing opinions with which he disagrees, Jayjg has pursued an abusive approach of stalking my edits on Palestinian-related pages and quickly reverting or altering most of them at every opportunity, usually without justification or explanation. I believe he does this to harass me and drive me out of Wikipedia for reasons unrelated to the actual edits themselves. I have never had this experience with other Wikipedians on any other subject so I believe it is unusual and reflects a problem with Jayjg - not with my edits.

I admit that I mistakenly accused Jayjg of redirecting Occupied Palestinian Territories, when I later realized that action was taken by User:Neutrality just before Jayjg listed it for deletion. I regret that error. I also admit that Jayjg's constant needling harassment has caused me to "lose my cool" and resort to uncivil langauge. I regret that too. I tried to avoid conflict with Jayjg and ignore him but he continues to pursue me to ridiculous lengths. For instance he felt compelled to edit an article I created about a simple land measure Dunam - and his edit was even inaccurate! Jayjg mockingly edited out a descriptor of the Jabalia-based Palestinian human rights organization Al Mezan Center for Human Rights as non-partisan because, in his opinion, it focuses too much on Israeli atrocities and not enough on investigating Palestinian abuses! Jayjg at times appears to have difficulty recognizing that his own narrow opinions are not NPOV. At other times, Jayjg appears aware of the difference but chooses nevertheless to promote his opinion as fact. I am prepared to tone down my comments on Talk pages and edit summaries but I cannot countenance Jayjg's incessant abuse. I intend to continue my editing in as unbiased a fashion as possible. This doesn't seem to be a problem until an edit is made to a Mideast-related page at which point Jayjg descends and acts as if he owns the page. I fear that '''Wikipedia's objectivity in controversial areas is being compromised as pages become dominated by gangs of aggressive partisan ideologues and NPOV editors suffer harassment from individuals like Jayjg who relentlessly push their extremist POV, refusing to honestly discuss issues, compromise, or consider the damage done by their deep-seated biases. If Jayjg succeeds in his campaign to ultimately ban me from Wikipedia,''' then this destructive process will only accelerate.

Some final notes:
 * I listed Occupied Palestinian Territories for deletion before Neutrality turned it into a re-direct; I'm not sure why Alberuni still resists following the fairly brief edit history of that page.
 * Alberuni's original version of Dunam was both POV and incomplete. My edit was NPOV but also incomplete.  Neither was "inaccurate".  Alberuni's subsequent edit incorporated my information, and added his own original information in a NPOV manner, thus showing that he both agreed with my information, and realized his original was POV.
 * RfC is not about getting people banned (as Alberuni has claimed more than once), but rather is a request for third party, neutral comment on a dispute. Alberuni refuses to acknowledge this.
 * Alberuni's response essentially boils down to "I shouldn't have done it, but Jayjg was so terrible that he made me do it"; hardly a recognition of any sort of responsibility for upholding Wikipedia rules. Jayjg 19:34, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Abusive edit summaries

 * 05:36, 27 Sep 2004 (hist) Talk:Hamas (Jayjg please refrain from stalking and unnecessary edits)
 * 02:45, 11 Oct 2004 (hist) Current events (rv to include unpleasant facts of invasion and slaughter of children censored by Mateo SA)
 * 00:18, 12 Oct 2004 (hist) Hamas (rv Zionist POV edits by Jayjg. You are ignoring Talk page discussion and inserting your POV)
 * 01:03, 12 Oct 2004 (hist) Jewish refugees (rv Jayjg systematic Zionist POV attacks on all my edits, come and get it)
 * 01:07, 12 Oct 2004 (hist) Occupied Palestinian Territories (rv Zionist campaign to deny Israeli occupation; take your case to Talk pages)
 * 01:26, 12 Oct 2004 (hist) Jabalia (You are trying to insert your insidious Zionist POV by equating all Palestinians with Palestinian militants and assuming that all Israelis are civilians)
 * 05:54, 12 Oct 2004 (hist) USS Liberty incident (delete apologist garbage)
 * 06:21, 12 Oct 2004 (hist) Israel (rv edits by Zionist smeg)
 * 06:18, 12 Oct 2004 (hist) Al-Mezan Center for Human Rights (rv Jayjg Ziovandalism)
 * 15:51, 13 Oct 2004 (hist) Al Mezan Center for Human Rights (Until you can produce evidence that they are not partisan, keep your biased edits to yourself.)
 * 00:57, 14 Oct 2004 (hist) Al Mezan Center for Human Rights (Rv edits by the partisan Zionist POV pusher Jayjg to NPOV version, You are ignoring Talk pages again Jayjg)
 * 01:03, 14 Oct 2004 (hist) Talk:Al Mezan Center for Human Rights (Jayjg you have not made your case, why do you persist in your petty edit war)
 * 03:02, 14 Oct 2004 (hist) Hasbara (Anti-Israel - You know, not everything in the world is divided into pro-Israel and anti-Israel, geez what a mindset)
 * 03:05, 14 Oct 2004 (hist) Arab-Israeli conflict (Jayjg means that everyone else must justify their edits to him, he only has to justify himself to God - go to Talk page nit)
 * 05:40, 14 Oct 2004 (hist) Dunam (Dunam is the measure currently in use, Jayjg's insufferably heavy handed stalking and inaccurate edits corrected again)

Making False claims: Re-directing pages
(Alberuni accused Jayjg several times to several users of redirecting the Occupied Palestinian Territories article, even after being told that Jayjg did not do so, as the edit history shows: )

 * 1) ...He follows me around, reverts many edits dealing with the Mideast, redirects pages and nominates pages for Votes for deletion in an effort to promote his Zionist POV on Wikipedia pages...Alberuni 17:45, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) ...He follows me around, reverts many edits dealing with the Mideast, redirects pages and nominates pages for Votes for deletion in an effort to promote his Zionist POV on Wikipedia pages... Alberuni 17:48, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) ....He redirected Occupied Palestinian Territories without even bothering to discuss it on the Talk page... Alberuni 01:15, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) ...Al-Mezan refers to "Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT)" so I created a page to reference it. Jayjg immediately redirected it, then listed it for deletion... Alberuni 19:46, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Making False claims: Stalking
(Alberuni accused Jayjg several times to several users of stalking him, particularly on the Hamas article, even though Jayjg edited the Hamas page weeks before Alberuni ever did so, and had even been doing so earlier in the day before Alberuni's first edit to the article, as the edit history shows: )

Jayjg please refrain from stalking and unnecessary edits - I know Wikipedia is a collaborative effort but you are making edits that add no significant value or new information apparently just so you can "have the last word". Control issues should be checked. Alberuni 05:36, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Alberuni, as I've requested several times now, please focus on the articles themselves, rather than on ad hominem statements regarding me. I will also point out that the charge of "stalking" is laughable, given that I was editing this page (and therefore it was on my watchlist) before you even joined Wikipedia, and that my most recent edits on Sept. 26 also precede your first edits to the page. If there is any "stalking" going on, it's obviously not by me. Jayjg 05:49, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * After we had our Talk/Israel disagreements over whether Palestinians should have their demographic existence in OT recognized as much as the Israelis who live in the OT, you came to the Hamas page and made a series of totally unnecessary reversions to my edits, reversions to your reversions, etc regarding Israel's assassination yesterday and Hamas goals. Your edits added nothing and were, in fact, awkwardly worded and poorly composed. You made them out of simple spiteful editorial bias, to erase my work. You always want the final word and the article must fit your pro-Israeli POV. I suspect you are hoping to drive people away from Wikipedia who don't share your narrow views. It is immature and destructive behavior. I will continue working on various pages and hope for you to mature. Alberuni 06:12, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Look at the history of the edits on the page; I had edited the article twice on Sep 26 before you appeared (for the very first time) and made your edits. I then returned to the page a few hours later and continued to edit it, incorporating the NPOV material that you brought to the page, while excluding the highly POV changes you inserted. I also have not changed subseqent NPOV edits you have made; my only concern here is maintaining NPOV. In any event, I again strongly encourage you to restrict your comments to discussing the article contents, rather than continually and rather incessantly making ad hominem and poisoning the well comments about me. Jayjg 14:25, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Making False claims: Holocaust denial

 * http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Jew&diff=6804184&oldid=6803813 -- Jmabel | Talk 18:58, Oct 23, 2004 (UTC)

 * Oh please, your hypocrisy is astounding. I am not making Holocaust denial claims. I am just quoting others in an attempt to add an "NPOV balance"; the same way Jayjg and his gang claim to be adding NPOV balance when they insert quotes from articles disputing Israeli responsibility for Muhammad al-Durrah's murder and delete evidence of the pattern of Israeli atrocities that resulted in Ghadeer Jaber Mkheemar's murder. To quote Jayjg, we're not pushing a POV, we're "just reporting who says what". For you to attack me for using their tactics while not confronting them in the same way is pure hypocrisy. --Alberuni 19:37, 23 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, you are quite the one to talk about hypocrisy in this. Are you saying that what Jayjg did in Muhammad al-Durrah was right? No, you are saying it is wrong, but then you are going and doing essentially the same thing. Have I defended Jayjg's edits in Muhammad al-Durrah? No, quite the opposite, as anyone can see by examining Talk:Muhammad al-Durrah. As for Ghadeer Jaber Mkheemar, I've never even looked at that article and it's the first time I remember hearing that name in my life. To be honest, I'm not going to follow it up in the immediate future, because I'm finding this whole argument a massive distraction and I'm trying not to broaden the already excessive drain on my time: I'm not going to be sucked into actively working on every contentious article in Wikipedia.

 * Editing the article Jew should not be matter of "confronting" someone's edits on some other, tangentially related article. It should be a matter of producing a good article on the topic at hand. As I've said before, I totally reject the tactic of retaliatory bad-faith edits, and I'm really amazed that you seem to be defending it as appropriate conduct. -- Jmabel | Talk 19:44, Oct 25, 2004 (UTC)

Applicable policies
{list the policies that apply to the disputed conduct}
 * No personal attacks
 * Civility
 * Assume good faith

Evidence of trying and failing to resolve the dispute
(provide diffs and links)
 * You've made a number of good edits today, Alberuni. If you continue in this vein we should have no trouble working together on articles in the future. Jayjg 17:22, 27 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I thought the vast majority of your edits on the article today were also good. Thanks for making them. Jayjg 15:59, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * When you have trouble with a user, whether it's a sysop or not, the best way to procede is to first try your best to assume good faith in the user. Don't accuse people of things like stalking you, and don't use inflamatory language (like "Why not call it Ziopedia?"). If you're sure there's a problem, try to talk it over with the person on his or her talk page, in as non-confrontational a way as possible. If this doesn't work, you can request mediation. I hope this helps!   – Quadell (talk) (help)   20:24, Oct 12, 2004 (UTC)
 * I've been pleading with Alberuni to work co-operatively, and to talk things over with me on my Talk: page, and even been very positive about some of his edits, but as yet to no avail. Jayjg 20:47, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Alberuni, your many ad hominem statements towards me on Talk: pages over the past couple of weeks have violated some primary Wikipedia rules, including (but certainly not limited to) No personal attacks, Civility, and Assume good faith. In a number of cases you have knowingly made false statements about my actions, in particular accusing me of re-directing articles which you are aware I have never re-directed. Though I have generally ignored these violations, at times I have requested that you cease this behaviour, and instead reserve the Talk: pages for discussions of article content (not me), and work collegially with me in editing articles. I have even complimented you on some of your edits, in an attempt to defuse the situation. However, so far you have rejected my requests (as well as those of other editors) to cease these personal attacks. I am requesting again that you indicate to me clearly and without qualification that you will follow Wikipedia norms regarding etiquette. I am placing this note on your Talk: page to indicate to you how seriously I take this. Respectfully, Jayjg 21:24, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Again, I'll have to ask you to please stop your barrage of personal attacks on WP users. This is counterproductive to both your political cause (whatever it is) and the collaborative spirit of WP.  ←Humus sapiens←Talk 05:39, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I was just about to suggest to you two to use the Dispute resolution when I noticed it mentioned on the talk page of the Al-Mezan article already. Alberuni, you still seem to be a bit nervous when talking to Jayjg, and you keep using much more unnecessary (IMHO) labeling epithets and other rhetoric instead of proving your case. To have you two working together, you both have to keep it down. Don't feel insulted by Jayjg's tracing your other edits – while I haven't yet read your full edit history, judging by just what you've said around this article and the ones immediately linked in from here, it seems you are frustrated with what you perceive as a pro-Israeli WP bias, but this seems to result in extremely POV and sometimes insulting remarks (to my personal perception, and I don't feel any animousity towards anybody who keeps contributing and doesn't just troll). It is no surprise that, having seen such remarks, other editors that want to achieve NPOV, will re-trace your history of edits (and Jayjg's as well, and mine, and whoever else's). Try not to take it as if it were in the real world, where a detective is spying on every part of your private life – WP is inherently fully open, there is no private life here, and you don't own anything but the "deltas" on the history lists, as you certainly understand. Instead of taking somebody tracing your edits personally, try to reform – for a good start, how about going over this page and replacing your own POV remarks with NPOV ones, and maybe even crossing out or removing some of the things you said here? You have just addressed the open source nature of the Wiki, having others tracing your edits is part of the game you have to accept to play. And if you reformulate stronger expressions, remove them, or even ask someone's pardon. Don't start right with the ones you had addressed to Jayjg, try working on a couple of others. This is just a suggestion – if I were you, I'd feel much better repairing the damage done by the strong emotions and unjust (in many editors' eyes) labels stuck; the reason is that in real life I have gotten into similar situations that you seem to have gotten yourself into here, and repairing the damage was always the key to the cure. If right now you feel you can't do it w/o getting angry or stressed, just relax and get to a completely different topic (my original "Relax" advice at the top of the talk still applies – you've got several more days to think things over...) If you feel the topic is too hot for you, well, you've said what you've said here and you are ready to accept the vote outcome, so maybe just ignore the article until the vote is over, and work on the other issues meanwhile... Good luck – I'm off to get some sleep... BACbKA 22:16, 12 Oct 2004 (UTC)

...and many others.

Alberuni's comment on this RfC to Blankfaze
User:Jayjg, the notorious Zionist POV pusher, has been stalking me all over Wikipedia reverting and deleting most of my work because he can't stand to see NPOV edits to pages related to Israel. He is extremely biased, as you well know. Now he is trying to get me banned so he can continue to censor Wikipedia without having to worry about maintaining a NPOV. I'd appreciate your support. Requests_for_comment/Alberuni. Thanks. Alberuni 15:18, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Users certifying the basis for this dispute
(sign with ~ )
 * I am Humus sapiens, certifying the basis for this dispute and can provide more evidence if needed.  ←Humus sapiens←Talk 09:26, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I Jayjg certify the basis for this dispute. Jayjg 14:24, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * The summary above is factually correct (though of course not unbiased). It shows that Alberuni needs to cease making personal attacks, refrain from constant accusations, and use the talk pages appropriately. (This does not mean that I support Jayjg's positions, edits, or attitude.)   – Quadell (talk) (help)   16:50, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)
 * I agree with Quadell's statement above (though I generally agree with Jayjg). It would be a shame for Alberuni to be banned with his knowledge on many things, but his manner of conduct is unacceptable. --Josiah 02:46, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Users agreeing with the above summary

 * I check Talk:Al Mezan Center for Human Rights to see what's the riot is all about and I understood. User:Jayjg raised a legitimate issue to be discussed, but instead of getting a proper reply, he was verbally attacked by User:Alberuni instead of giving a strsight answer to his questions. After User:Quadell try to meddiate, Alberuni did answered one of Jayge questions but it is lost in a black sea of inflammatory attacks againsst Jayjg. He didn't even give civility or discussion-to-the-point a chance. The article itself, which was created User:Alberuni may be a copy right infringement. MathKnight 18:12, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I certify the basis of this dispute. I first became aware of the personal attacks made by User:Alberuni on VfD/Occupied Palestinian Territories.  On this VfD, Alberuni, rabidly attacked anyone with a different POV and called them names.  Alberuni then went on a POV edit war, going so far as to make malicious categorizations.  Alberuni's interactions with User:Jayjg have been abusive, and have consisted of nothing but personal attacks.  Alberuni seems incapable of recognizing his own bad behavior, and instead, he continues to blame Jayjg.  In response to this RfC, and the collective concerns raised about Alberuni's behavior towards Jayjg (and others),  Alberuni has issued a threat against Wikipedia: If Jayjg succeeds in his campaign to ultimately ban me from Wikipedia, then this destructive process will only accelerate.  I find Alberuni's response highly disturbing.  We are not trying to ban Alberuni.  We are trying to get him to adhere to Wikiquette, and many users have asked him to be civil.  Alberuni refuses to do this, and as one can see, he continues to make threats.  --Viriditas 20:24, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I also certify that the above is correct. In addition to all this, it seems as though another user, HistoryBuffEr, has also appeared and begun posting "Totally Disputed" notices on various Israel-Palestine articles. (It caught my attention when he began doing this on the Holocaust denial examined article. Going over the history of this dispute, I'm suspecting that HistoryBuffEr may actually be a sock puppet of Alberuni. I may be wrong, but they do seem similar in both their intent and their criticism (attacks) on Jayg. --Modemac 20:13, 14 Oct 2004 Update, 10/15/04: My statement that HistoryBuffEr may be a sock puppet of Alberuni may indeed be wrong, but I will stand by my general statement regarding the actions above and HistoryBuffEr's actions. --Modemac 08:57, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)(UTC)
 * RK 21:47, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC). I certify that the above descriptions are accurate. I am disturbed by the use of anti-Semitic attacks being made against Alberuni's opponents.  He also seems to be working with HistoryBuffEr, as he says the exact same things on the exact same topic. More likely, Alberuni has created HistoryBuffEr as a "sockpuppet", to create a false impression of support. RK 21:47, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)
 * --Josiah 22:40, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC) I also certify that the basis of this dispute is factually accurate. --Josiah 22:40, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Agreed with the above. As of now, User:Alberuni has been at Wikipedia about ONE MONTH (in this "incarnation"). He "arrived" on 15 Sept 2004, (see his edit summaries at contributions). In the span of a mere four weeks he has written some informative things. BUT, when it gets to the Israel/Zionism/Judaism-Palestine/Arab/Islam issues he instinctively aims to paint Israel and Zionism articles (and any editor he deems associated with them in ways that enrage him) in very negative and destructive POVs. His main focus has been as acting as an apologist for a pro-Arab and pro-Islam extremism POV (but goes ballistic if anyone sees things differently, see his antagonism to Israeli Hasbara deeming it "propaganda"). See his contributions in edit summaries and histories for September 11, 2001 attacks, Abdullah Yusuf Azzam, Ayman al-Zawahiri, Al-Qaida, Wadih el-Hage, Maktab al-Khadamat, and Osama bin Laden. Also for Black Hawk Down, Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi, Osama bin Laden Fatwa: Text of Fatwa Urging Jihad Against Americans - 1998, Osama tapes, Yaser Esam Hamdi, Islamism, Hamas etc., all major terrorism and terrorist/s topics and escapades that seem to hold his interest, some of which (i.e. the Wikipedia articles) he initiated (as if it were a contest for today's FBI ten most wanted fugitives.) IZAK 04:19, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Ambi 08:25, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Alburuni's criticism of Israel and Zionism is rather POV, as would be a Zionist's praise of Israel. NPOV is an attempt to tell the truth, not a distorted opinion of the truth. Moreover, this criticism has anti-Semitic overtones. (If I have a POV here, it's a Jewish POV, and, of course, Jews are usually aware of antisemitism.) Rickyrab 19:58, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Seems clear that at least some of those quotes overstep the bounds. Shane King 04:37, Nov 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * I also certify that the above is factually correct, though maybe not presented in an unbiased manner. - Mark Dingemanse (talk)  08:35, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I would like to agree with the above statement. I have only been reading Alburuni's comments for about an hour and am quite surprised with the high level of bias he seems to display.  Seems certainly anti-Israel, if not anti-semetic altogether. Oberiko 18:56, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm trying to steer a neutral course between Pename and Alberuni in the Muhammad article and finding it tough going. Alberuni deletes anything he deems critical of Muhammad with summaries like "Islamophobic Orientalist BS". Name calling and unwillingness to tolerate the existence of viewpoints not his own. Zora 17:54, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Response
This is a summary written by the user whose conduct is disputed, or by other users who think that the dispute is unjustified and that the above summary is biased or incomplete.

I feel as though User:Jayjg is on a witchhunt against me, pursuing me throughout Wikipedia, making unnecessary, innaccurate, and worst of all, extremely POV edits to many many articles on which I have labored with a very NPOV approach. On the Talk pages, I have expressed an anti-Zionist POV (for instance, I wrote that "Islamism is to Islam as Zionism is to Judaism" meaning that both are extremist ideologies of religious nationalism) and this has apparently infuriated Jayjg, among others, who are extremely ardent Zionists. To punish me for expressing opinions with which he disagrees, Jayjg has pursued an abusive approach of stalking my edits on Palestinian-related pages and quickly reverting or altering most of them at every opportunity, usually without justification or explanation. I believe he does this to harass me and drive me out of Wikipedia for reasons unrelated to the actual edits themselves. I have never had this experience with other Wikipedians on any other subject so I believe it is unusual and reflects a problem with Jayjg - not with my edits.

I admit that I mistakenly accused Jayjg of redirecting Occupied Palestinian Territories, when I later realized that action was taken by User:Neutrality just before Jayjg listed it for deletion. I regret that error. I also admit that Jayjg's constant needling harassment has caused me to "lose my cool" and resort to uncivil langauge. I regret that too. I tried to avoid conflict with Jayjg and ignore him but he continues to pursue me to ridiculous lengths. For instance he felt compelled to edit an article I created about a simple land measure Dunam - and his edit was even inaccurate! Jayjg mockingly edited out a descriptor of the Jabalia-based Palestinian human rights organization Al Mezan Center for Human Rights as non-partisan because, in his opinion, it focuses too much on Israeli atrocities and not enough on investigating Palestinian abuses! Jayjg at times appears to have difficulty recognizing that his own narrow opinions are not NPOV. At other times, Jayjg appears aware of the difference but chooses nevertheless to promote his opinion as fact. I am prepared to tone down my comments on Talk pages and edit summaries but I cannot countenance Jayjg's incessant abuse. I intend to continue my editing in as unbiased a fashion as possible. This doesn't seem to be a problem until an edit is made to a Mideast-related page at which point Jayjg descends and acts as if he owns the page. I fear that Wikipedia's objectivity in controversial areas is being compromised as pages become dominated by gangs of aggressive partisan ideologues and NPOV editors suffer harassment from individuals like Jayjg who relentlessly push their extremist POV, refusing to honestly discuss issues, compromise, or consider the damage done by their deep-seated biases. If Jayjg succeeds in his campaign to ultimately ban me from Wikipedia, then this destructive process will only accelerate.

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~ ):
 * 1) Alberuni 16:47, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 2) Xed 22:44, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) I've had people (not Jayjg) follow me and revert my edits, too. Very frustrating. --style 05:58, 2004 Oct 19 (UTC)

Outside view
This is a summary written by users not directly involved with the dispute but who would like to add an outside view of the dispute.

{Add summary here, but you must use the endorsement section below to sign. Users who edit or endorse this summary should not edit the other summaries} --

This appears to be one of those "Live by the sword, die by the sword" situations. While Alberuni is certainly outspoken (to put it mildly), there is no doubt that Jayjg well deserves most of the criticism. Alberuni should certainly tone down his loud rhetoric, but Jayjg should also tone down his loud actions. While Jayjg "speaks softly" that does not mean much -- reverts are "a slap in the face", and Jayjg slaps many and slaps often. Worse yet, Jayjg delivers these "silent" insults without adequate explanation, and quite often without any justification. Moreover, Jayjg regularly requests anyone making changes to "propose them in Talk first", but he himself never does so. These are clearly provocations that can be infuriating, and while Alberuni loses points for taking the bait, Jayjg loses points for complaining about fights he provoked.

My verdict is that:
 * Alberuni should avoid personal references in his rhetoric, and
 * Jayjg should cease his incessant unexplained and unjustified reverts.

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~ ):
 * 1) HistoryBuffEr 08:14, 2004 Oct 14 (UTC).
 * see "Endorsement challenge" in "Discussion" below
 * 1) —No-One Jones (m) 13:34, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC) Maybe not the summary, but the suggested behavior is spot-on.
 * 2) Xed 14:34, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC) Verdict makes sense. I can also confirm Jayjg relentless POV edits, and his stalking. As I have mentioned elsewhere - Jayjg's methods include sounding reasonable on Talk pages whilst pushing extremist views on the actual pages. He frequently resorts to quoting various Wikipedia rules whilst ignoring the central tenet of Wikipedia: NPOV. Note that Jayjg is trying to interfere with process above.
 * 3) *One can't really note something which has not happened; I haven't attempted to "interfere" with any process. Jayjg 19:02, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) **Note: Jayjg suggested that HistoryBuffer's vote be 'disqualified', simply for opposing him. According to Jayjg's logic, anyone who opposes him shouldn't count. He also questioned whether my vote counts. This is typical of his methods. He has also accused me, without providing a shred of evidence, of starting WP:Bias to make a "socially acceptable back-door way of promoting anti-Americanism" to "minimize the significance of the 9/11 attacks". This breaks all the rules he has charged Alberuni of breaking, such as No personal attacks, Civility, and Assume good faith, and in a much worse way.- Xed 08:21, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 5) ***An unsurpisingly deceptive and false comment. I stated that HisoryBuffEr should disqualify himself, not that he should be "disqualified".  In addition, I did not question whether your vote counts, I suggested you should disqualify yourself as well.  And this is an RfC about Alberuni, not me. Jayjg 18:25, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 6) ****The above shows the tragic self-deception that afflicts Jayjg. If he didn't go around suggesting people disqualify themselves maybe he wouldn't cause so much animosity. -- Xed 18:32, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 7) Good summary. While Alberuni is not really responding appropriately, with personal attacks and general rudeness, he has a right to be upset.  Jayjg is a POV-pusher and a troll.  Trying to make articles NPOV when Jayjg is on a mission to install pro-Israel and pro-Jewish points of view is frustrating, to say the least. blankfaze |  (беседа!)  15:55, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 8) POV should have no unneccessary place in Wikipedia outside of the discussion pages. (Yes, I endorse both this outsider summary and the anti-Alburuni summary, because Alberuni is behaving badly, and Jayjg should know better than to react excessively to Alburuni.)Rickyrab 20:03, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Actually, Alberuni should know better than to make major POV controversial changes to existing pages without getting concensus first; failure to do so invites swift reversion from any number of editors who have worked hard to get "high-emotion" pages into a negotiatied NPOV stasis. HistoryBuffEr, the author of the "Outside view", even moreso, since as far as I can tell that is the only kind of change HistoryBuffEr has ever made to a Wikipedia article, aside from listing a series of articles as "totally disputed" without actually raising disputes on the relevant talk pages. Jayjg 05:28, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * 1) Excellent, spot-on summary.--style 05:54, 2004 Oct 19 (UTC)
 * 2) CheeseDreams 01:57, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * 3) Although I think this page is about one user and so I endorsed the anti-Alberuni summary, the reality is that both sides are heavily at fault, and this captures that well. I feel I have to endorse this one too. Shane King 04:39, Nov 5, 2004 (UTC)
 * 4) I believe that Jayig is using the open-edit Wikipedia system to try to change history. He is clearly fighting what he seems to consider anti-americanism - but hey! Wikipedia was not made to be pro-american too! The truth is the truth. if Israel is the vilain-country in the MidEast, why does Jayig change the articles of other users? I also noticed that some people in Wikipedia use to change others´ articles to promote their own world views. I will not take off the reason from a guy who´s valid articles have been changed, only because he is short-tempered. Jaying should be put under discussion. Fabio Burch 22:48, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

Just a short comment on Jihad - Pename has had a RFC filed on himself also. I feel that though Alberuni shouldn't have retaliated, he was being sorely tried by Pename. - Ta bu shi da yu 13:54, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Users who endorse this summary (sign with ~ ):

Discussion
All signed comments and talk not related to a vote or endorsement, should be directed to this page's discussion page.

Endorsement challenge

 * As HistoryBuffEr has been directly involved in a number of the disputes with Alberuni, supporting Alberuni in every case, I strongly disagree that this is an "Outside view", and suggest that it be moved to a more appropriate section. Jayjg 14:29, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, I'm involved in none of the disputes with Alberuni, and I fully endorse and agree with this summary. So if you have a problem with it, just pretend I'm the author. blankfaze |  (беседа!)  15:55, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Ironic that Jayjg posts a false accusation in his RfC complaining about false accusations. I was not involved in any disputes with Alberuni, much less "supporting him in every case". The only "involvement" I recall is that Alberuni once endorsed my view in some Talk, I don't think I even replied to that. HistoryBuffEr 17:27, 2004 Oct 14 (UTC)
 * You're right. What I should have said was "As HistoryBuffEr has been directly involved in a number of disputes with me, showing the same behaviour as Alberuni and often worse in many cases, he should disqualify himself from having an 'Outside view'" Jayjg 19:02, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, if everyone who has ever disagreed with you and everyone who has ever supported you is not an outsider, then we'd have very few Wikipedians left (and most of those probably have no interest in this RfC.) So, common sense suggests that only those directly involved be fully disqualified (the rest can be challenged for bias). HistoryBuffEr 19:15, 2004 Oct 14 (UTC)
 * The issue is not whether they agreed with me or supported me, but whether they have exhibited the exact same behaviour towards me, in contravention of Wikipedia's policies. Not surprisingly, the 3 other Wikipedians who have done so had a great interest in this page, and all should have disqualified themselves.  That still leaves several hundred (several thousand?) Wikipedians who are quite qualified to view the facts and make reasonably impartial judgements. Jayjg 19:52, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * If your concern is impartiality, how come you are not challenging any of your supporters who were directly involved to disqualify themselves? HistoryBuffEr 20:19, 2004 Oct 14 (UTC)
 * Which of "my supporters" do you feel were involved in the same disputes with Alberuni and why? Jayjg 20:28, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * User:Humus sapiens on Talk:Jewish refugees.
 * User:MathKnight on Jabalia and Al Mezan Center for Human Rights.
 * User:Viriditas on Hasbara, Occupation of Palestine and Votes for deletion/Occupied Palestinian Territories.
 * I'm waiting for User:IZAK and User:Lance6Wins to chime in. Alberuni 20:58, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * They were involved in the articles themselves, but how were they involved in our specific conflict? I remind you, the conflict raised here concerns violations of Wikiquette. Were you violating these policies with them as well?  Were they complaining about it? Jayjg 21:38, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Vote challenge

 * This is not Requests for comment/Jayjg . This is not the place to debate Jayjg's faults. Alberuni should be judged according to his own conduct.   – Quadell (talk) (help)   16:50, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)
 * Indeed. In fact, three of the four "outside views" are guilty of the exact same conduct as Alberuni (one to a lesser extent), both off this page and on it, indicating to me a profound misunderstanding of and/or disregard for Wikipedia norms, and the RfC purpose and process. Jayjg 18:47, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Perhaps you should start RfC's against everyone who criticizes your behavior. Alberuni 18:56, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * No, that would make no sense. I have no issue with people who criticize my behaviour, but I do have an issue with people who violate No personal attacks, Civility, and Assume good faith.  I also have a strong issue with people who violate NPOV, but given that those complaining the loudest about it here are also some of its worst violaters, there's hardly a point in raising that issue. Jayjg 19:11, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Quadell, while I agree with the principle, see Requests_for_comment/IZAK (and other RfCs) indicating that it has become common to bring out all sides of dispute in an RfC. HistoryBuffEr 19:05, 2004 Oct 14 (UTC)

Endorse two summaries?
Can a voter endorse two different summaries? Jayjg 22:49, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, if the voter feels both are accurate.   – Quadell (talk) (help)   23:13, Oct 14, 2004 (UTC)

Live by the Sword, Die by the Sword
I am not sure if I agree with the "live by the sword, die by the sword" statement completely. I do agree that Jayjg does regularly request persons making changes to "propose them in Talk first", and doesn't always do so himself, and I do think that whomever wrote this is partly correct about it, I don't think it is as bad as the author describes it, and I absolutely do not think it is an adequete comparison.--Josiah 02:57, 21 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Alberuni