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Sherilyn Fenn

Sherilyn Fenn (born Sheryl Ann Fenn; February 1, 1965) is an American actress. She played Audrey Horne on the television series Twin Peaks (1990–1991, 2017) for which she was nominated for a Golden Globe Award and an Emmy Award.

She also had film roles in Wild at Heart (1990), Of Mice and Men (1992), Boxing Helena (1993) and The United States of Leland (2003) and played in the television series Rude Awakening (1998–2001), Shameless (2016), and Shining Vale (2022).

Early life
Fenn was born Sheryl Ann Fenn on February 1, 1965, in Detroit, Michigan. She comes from a family of musicians: her mother is keyboard player Arlene Quatro, her aunt is award winning Hall-of-fame singer Suzi Quatro, and her grandfather, Art Quatro, was a jazz musician. Her father, Leo Fenn, managed rock bands including Suzi Quatro's The Pleasure Seekers, Alice Cooper, and The Billion Dollar Babies. Fenn is of Italian and Hungarian descent on her mother's side, and Irish and French descent on her father's. She was raised Catholic.

Fenn frequently traveled with her mother and two older brothers before the family settled in Los Angeles when she was 17. Not wanting to start with a new school again, Fenn dropped out after her junior year and decided to pursue acting, enrolling at the Lee Strasberg Theatre Institute.

Early career (1984–1989)
Fenn began her career with a number of B-movies, including The Wild Life (1984, opposite Chris Penn), the 1986 skater film Thrashin' (opposite Josh Brolin and Pamela Gidley), the 1986 teen car action and revenge fantasy The Wraith (alongside Charlie Sheen and opposite Nick Cassavetes), the 1987 horror film Zombie High (alongside Virginia Madsen), and the Beauty and the Beast-inspired erotic movie Meridian. She had a part in the 1985 cult teen-comedy Just One of the Guys in which she tries to seduce a teenaged girl who was disguised as a boy, played by Joyce Hyser. Fenn starred alongside Johnny Depp in the 1985 short student film Dummies, directed by Laurie Frank for the American Film Institute. Fenn and Depp dated for three and a half years, subsequently getting engaged. In 1987, she joined Depp in a season-one episode of 21 Jump Street called "Blindsided".

Fenn has described many of these early films as sexploitation films "where directors tried to convince [her] to appear naked after the contract was signed." In a February 1993 interview she explained: Still, I did a lot of movies instead of waitressing or that kind of thing at the beginning, and it wasn't as if I even took acting very seriously when I started. I was in California for the first time. I was going to clubs, I was going here, I was going there, I was skipping acting classes when I could. Luckily, I had an agent who really believed in me and she just kept pushing me, thinking something would happen.

Fenn landed her first starring role, as an engaged heiress to an old Southern family who falls for carnival worker Richard Tyson, in Zalman King's erotic drama film Two Moon Junction, after which she wanted to hide for a year: "I was so embarrassed about how it turned out that I went into a cocoon for a year afterwards." Two Moon Junction was meant to be Fenn's big break, but the film turned into another sexploitation film. A lot of people said some really bad things about me for doing such a sexy movie. But I decided to do it because I wasn't comfortable with the material. I didn't want to make choices that would always put me in a place that was comfortable and secure. I thought interesting things would happen and I would grow. Interesting things did happen. I cried at the end of all my love scenes.

After these film experiences, Fenn decided to take control of her career. "I decided to be more myself and not to be pushed into what other people wanted me to be. It's scary how little imagination many people in this business have."

Rise to fame (1990–1991)
Fenn’s breakthrough came when she was cast by David Lynch and Mark Frost as the tantalizing, reckless Audrey Horne, a high school femme fatale, in the TV series Twin Peaks, which ran between 1990 and 1991. The character of Audrey was one of the most popular with fans, in particular for her unrequited love for FBI Special Agent Dale Cooper (played by Kyle MacLachlan) and her style from the 1950s (with her saddle shoes, plaid skirts, and tight sweaters). Fenn reached cult status with a scene in which she danced to Angelo Badalamenti's music and a scene in which she knotted a cherry stem in her mouth. "With Sherilyn Fenn, Twin Peaks came on and effortlessly destroyed every other show's sexuality", said James Marshall, one of her cast-mates. Speaking in September 1990, Fenn pointed out: "Audrey is a woman-child who dresses like the girls in the '50s and shows her body. But she's daddy's little girl at the same time." In the show's second season, when the idea of pairing Audrey with Cooper was abandoned, Audrey was paired with other characters like Bobby Briggs (played by Dana Ashbrook) and John Justice Wheeler (Billy Zane). About Audrey, Fenn said: Audrey's been great for me. She has brought out a side of me that's more mischievous and fun that I had suppressed, trying to be an adult. She has made it OK to use the power one has as a woman to be manipulative at times, to be precocious. She goes after what she wants vehemently and she takes it. I think that's really admirable. I love that about her.

Shortly after shooting the Twin Peaks' pilot episode, David Lynch gave her a small part in Wild at Heart, as a girl injured in a car wreck, obsessed by the contents of her purse, alongside Nicolas Cage and Laura Dern. The film won the Golden Palm Award at the 1990 Cannes Film Festival. "David's direction was, 'Only think of this: bobby pins, lipstick, wallet, comb, that's it.' It's very abstract." "I just pictured her being able to do this," said Lynch of her scene, "she's like a broken China doll." David Lynch, who once described Sherilyn Fenn as "five feet of heaven in a ponytail" (quoting from a 1958 record by The Playmates), said to Banner, who used that description as the title of his article, "She's a mysterious girl and I think that actresses like her who have a mystery – where there's something hiding beneath the surface – are the really interesting ones." "He's very creative and unafraid of taking chances," she said of the director. "I really respect him. He's wonderful." Also during this period, Fenn appeared on the cover and in a nude pictorial in the December 1990 edition of Playboy magazine.

She portrayed John Dillinger's girlfriend Billie Frechette in ABC's 1991 gangster TV movie Dillinger opposite Mark Harmon, and shot the neo-noir black comedy Desire and Hell at Sunset Motel in which she played a sultry, seductive femme fatale.

After Twin Peaks, Fenn chose to focus on widening her range of roles and was determined to avoid typecasting. She stated, "They've offered me every variation on Audrey Horne, none of which were as good or as much fun." She turned down the Audrey Horne spinoff series that was offered to her, and unlike most of the cast, chose not to return for the 1992 prequel movie Twin Peaks: Fire Walk with Me, as she was then shooting Of Mice and Men.

Post-Twin Peaks roles (1992–1995)
After two nominations (Emmy and Golden Globe) for Twin Peaks, and the pictorial in Playboy, Fenn was propelled to stardom and became a major sex symbol, with her Old Hollywood looks. In October 1990, while promoting Twin Peaks, Fenn made the cover of Rolling Stone magazine along with Mädchen Amick and Lara Flynn Boyle. In 1990 Us Magazine chose her as one of the "10 Most Beautiful Women in the World" and in 1991 People magazine chose her as one of the "50 Most Beautiful Women in the World". She posed for photographer Steven Meisel for the autumn-winter 1991–1992 Dolce & Gabbana campaign, for which he photographed her as a classical Hollywood femme fatale. In 1992, photographer George Hurrell took a series of photographs of Sherilyn Fenn, Sharon Stone, Julian Sands, Raquel Welch, Eric Roberts, and Sean Penn. In these portraits, he recreated his style of the 1930s, with Fenn posing in costumes, hairstyle, and makeup of the period.

In 1991, Hollywood acting coach Roy London chose her to star in his directorial debut Diary of a Hitman, in which she plays a young mother determined to protect her child from hitman Forest Whitaker. According to Fenn, the turning point in her career was when she met London in 1990. She credits him with instilling confidence and newfound enthusiasm. I was disillusioned with acting after the pilot of Twin Peaks. I'd been doing low-budget films. I didn't want to walk through movies being a pretty ornament. At 25 I didn't know if I had it. I questioned if there was depth, if there was integrity to me. I was longing to go inside, to do deeper work. She learned from her beloved teacher "to find the roles that you're passionate about, that speak to you on some level and which will help you grow on some level," which has then become her line of conduct. "A lot of the sentiment that acting should be about an art form rather than mass entertainment and celebrity is at the core of Fenn's attitude to the business," wrote Jessica Sully in Australian magazine Movie. "I try to keep myself centered," Fenn said. "I don't go to parties and all that. I don't think being seen or being in the right place is going to make me a better actress. I care about my work and try to do what's right in my heart." As Mike Bygrave wrote in Sky Magazine: "One of the keys to understanding Fenn is that when she talks about the characters she plays she's really talking about herself." Fenn was eager to play varied parts that could eclipse her sex-symbol image. "People who think they know me would be surprised that my whole life doesn't revolve around sex," she said. After Twin Peaks, Fenn demanded a no-nudity clause in her contracts. She turned to independent films, choosing varied and unusual roles: "The world has certain rules – Hollywood has certain rules – but it doesn't mean you have to play by them, and I don't, or I'd be a miserable person."

A highlight of Fenn's film career is Gary Sinise's film adaptation of Of Mice and Men, in which she played a sad and lonely country wife, desperately in need to talk to somebody, opposite Sinise and John Malkovich. "Sherilyn's one of the reasons we got such a great ovation at Cannes", said Sinise. "She's like a terribly sad angel in this film. Sherilyn plays against just being a sexy and beautiful girl," he added. "Gary Sinise was one of the first people who didn't see me like a lot of other people did", she said. "It was a wonderful experience. Horton Foote adapted the novel and he fleshed out my character, and he made her much, much more." The same year, she starred alongside Danny Aiello and others in John Mackenzie's Ruby, about Jack Ruby. Fenn played the part of ambitious stripper Sheryl Ann DuJean, a fictitious character who is a composite of several real-life women including stripper Candy Barr, Marilyn Monroe, and Judith Campbell Exner. "She's got a brain and all the right emotional instincts, and that's a great combination," said Mackenzie of Fenn.

In 1993, she starred in the romantic comedy Three of Hearts as Kelly Lynch and William Baldwin's love interest. During the shooting, the relationship between Fenn and director Yurek Bogayevicz became strained as she refused to appear nude in the film.

Another of her notable film roles was in Boxing Helena, directed by David Lynch's daughter Jennifer Chambers Lynch. Fenn portrayed a narcissistic seductress amputated and imprisoned by Julian Sands, who makes her become his personal Venus de Milo in an effort to possess her. Fenn said of the film, "Society, Hollywood, some men... they want to wrap women up in a neat little package." Both Lynch and Fenn were proud of their work in it, but the film was ultimately a critical and commercial failure. However, both women enjoyed their collaboration. "Sherilyn is an amazing actress, a total bundle of energy and a real powerhouse and I think people will see a side of her that we have never seen of Sherilyn anywhere else before," said Lynch of the actress. "Jennifer's one of the brightest person I know," said Fenn. "Boxing Helena was... not perfect, but I think for the story that we were trying to tell, it turned out pretty good. What it signified was really powerful to me: how society puts us in boxes one way or another."

She then starred in Carl Reiner's neo-noir parody Fatal Instinct as Armand Assante's devoted secretary and Sean Young's and Kate Nelligan's rival. She was asked to read for the femme fatale Lola (eventually played by Young), but opted for the secretary role.

Fenn afterward portrayed Potiphar's wife Zulaikha in Showtime's 1995 Biblical TV movie Slave of Dreams opposite Adrian Pasdar and Edward James Olmos.

In 1995, she starred in an episode of Tales from the Crypt directed by Robert Zemeckis, alongside Isabella Rossellini and John Lithgow, in which she played the lover of Humphrey Bogart, who appeared in the episode via CGI special effects.

After a short break during which she married and gave birth to a son, Fenn was chosen out of more than 100 actresses to portray actress Elizabeth Taylor in NBC's 1995 telemovie Liz: The Elizabeth Taylor Story. Fenn called the role "probably the hardest job I've ever done." "Director Kevin Connor and I arranged a lunch, not an audition," said executive producer Lester Persky. "We knew 10 minutes into our meeting that Sherilyn was it. She has the same striking beauty, and because of that she's experienced some of the things in life and in this business that make Elizabeth such a fascinating person." When she accepted the part, Fenn was unaware that Taylor was embroiled in a lawsuit intended to stop both the broadcast of the film and the unauthorized biography that it was based on. Fenn stated about the controversy, "I am somebody who doesn't make choices lightly at this point of my life. I'm not somebody who wants to exploit another's woman story or life in any way." Fenn felt a kinship with Taylor, stating, "There are stereotypes of what a beautiful woman is. She struggled with that. A certain part of her life she went on that calling card. I certainly know I've come into contact with that. 'You are too pretty,' I'm told." During the shooting, Fenn supported the original screenwriter's effort to concentrate on Taylor the person, not the legend: "I fought to keep the integrity of the story because the producer was bringing in a writer that was making it very soapy. They wanted many scenes of her when she was very overweight. I said, 'I'm not doing that. I'll do one. That's not this woman's life.' For me it was just: I didn't want to make an impression. I just tried to play the truth of the woman."

Mid 1990s and guest appearances (1996–1998)
In the late 1990s, Fenn experienced a career slowdown. In 1993, she had stated: "I don't get considered for a lot of those big fat movies. The studios have their list of five actresses and whether they're right or wrong for a role doesn't matter. It's how much money their last movie made," she said. "Not that I necessarily want to do them anyway. Because there's very few that are big budget that have any substance or any depth or any integrity.""

In 1997, she stated: "It was crazy, I was very picky. In other words, I didn't take advantage of what was happening necessarily then." Also, she has attributed her failure to adapt to the Hollywood system to her frankness and her dislike for the "Hollywood game." "I was told once that I didn't play the Hollywood game, and that's why I wasn't a big star. What they meant when they said that was that I don't go to parties, and when I go to an audition and I don't like the script, they know it. I don't flirt and I don't play the people that I'm meeting with. In the next breath, this person said to me, 'When you're passionate about a role, there's nobody that can touch you, but you have to learn to do this also...' But I don't know how to sit there and pretend I love something when I don't!"

She began to alternate TV movies and independent films. In 1996, she joined the ensemble cast in the romantic comedy Lovelife as a waitress who attempts to become a writer and has to rebuild her life. Fenn also appeared in the 1997 romantic comedy Just Write, along with Jeremy Piven, as the dream actress of a Hollywood tour bus driver, who mistakes him for a famous screenwriter. Both films have been well-received on the festival circuit.

In a 1997 episode of Friends, "The One with Phoebe's Ex-Partner", which was Episode 14 of Season 3 of the show, Fenn guest-starred as Matt LeBlanc's ex-girlfriend Ginger, who has a prosthetic right leg. She stated, "I like the show. I was happy to be a part of it."

The same year, she was cast as the female lead in ABC's show Prey (originally entitled Hungry for Survival) and starred in the unaired original pilot episode. However, after the filming was done and post-production work almost wrapped up, the studio heads abruptly changed course, replacing Fenn with Debra Messing and reshooting the entire pilot. Prey went on for one season before getting cancelled.

Fenn starred in the 1998 British psychological drama Darkness Falls as a wealthy and neglected wife, who is sequestered with her husband (played by Tim Dutton) by a man (Ray Winstone) determined to understand the events that led to his wife ending up in a coma. Fenn called the film "a wonderful character piece" While shooting the film in the Isle of Man in late 1997, Fenn considered settling in London to start a European career, but eventually decided to stay in the U.S.

Return to television: Rude Awakening (1998–2001)
Fenn gained newfound enthusiasm with the lead role in Showtime's sitcom Rude Awakening as Billie Frank, an alcoholic ex-soap opera actress, who tries to go sober and become a writer, but continues to struggle with her self-destructive habits. The series ran from 1998 to 2001 and co-starred Lynn Redgrave, Jonathan Penner, and Mario Van Peebles. She said of it: "I liked the hard-core truth of Rude Awakening. But when I first read it, I was scared of it. Part of me was, like, it's so unattractive! But I liked that it didn't glamorize alcohol. And what's admirable about Billie is that she's a straight shooter. She doesn't have a lot of pretense. It's like, 'Take me as I am. You like me, fine! You don't, I don't give a damn!' There's something quite empowering about somebody who doesn't care what other people think. Billie is learning about herself. She's recognized that she has a problem with drugs and alcohol, and she's trying to straighten it out."

Fenn again joined Jeremy Piven in a 1998 episode of Cupid, as Piven's love interest.

In 1999, she reteamed with Chris Penn and Adrian Pasdar for Pasdar's art-house directorial debut, the neo-noir Cement, a contemporary retelling of Othello in which she played a tempting but imprudent wife of jealous corrupt cop Penn. "I play a character who's selfish and sloppy with her sexual energy. I saw the film and I was really happy with it. It's got a lot of soul." The film, which won Best Picture awards on the festival circuit, was written by Farscape's screenwriter, Justin Monjo and also starred Jeffrey Wright and Henry Czerny. She also reteamed with actor/director Bruce Davison for his 2001 family comedy, Showtime's Off Season alongside Rory Culkin, Hume Cronyn, and Adam Arkin.

Fenn subsequently starred alongside Jon Tenney in the pilot for a remake of ABC's Love, American Style, for the 1998–1999 television season. Although the show wasn't picked up, it did air as a TV special on February 20, 1999. Guest stars include Mariska Hargitay, Steven Eckholdt, Fenn, Jon Tenney, Melissa Joan Hart, Matt Letscher, Joely Fisher, Tom Verica, and writer/producer Winnie Holzman (My So-Called Life).

2001–present
Following Rude Awakening, Fenn's has made a number of episodic TV appearances. In the middle of the 2000s, she was involved in many projects that went unrealized.

In 2001, she starred in The Outer Limits episode "Replica", playing a scientist who volunteered to be cloned. She also starred in an episode of Night Visions, as a woman who buys a used car possessed by a vengeful spirit. She was cast as a kindergarten teacher for the pilot of the 2001 American version of the British TV show Blind Men, alongside French Stewart. However, the pilot was not ordered into a series.

In 2002, Fenn was one of several former Twin Peaks stars, such as Dana Ashbrook and Mädchen Amick, to have a recurring role on The WB's Dawson's Creek. She guest-starred in three episodes from the fifth season, as Alex Pearl, the seductive manager of the restaurant where Joshua Jackson works. Fenn was afterwards cast as Harley Quinn in The WB's Birds of Prey, but was replaced by Mia Sara before the series began. Fenn starred in the original pilot episode, but dropped out, due to scheduling conflicts, as the show's creators realized that the character Harley Quinn would need to be a bigger part of the show. She also played a manipulative woman in a season-four episode of Law & Order: Special Victims Unit versus both Christopher Meloni and Mariska Hargitay, and appeared in Watching Ellie.

Fenn played a crime boss in the 2002 film Swindle alongside Tom Sizemore. She had a small role in the film The United States of Leland alongside Ryan Gosling, in which she played a mother who captivates a troubled teenage boy.

In 2003, Fenn appeared on The WB's Gilmore Girls as Sasha, the girlfriend of Jess Mariano's estranged father (played by Rob Estes) in the season-three episode "Here Comes the Son", which was the back-door pilot for a California-set spin-off titled Windward Circle, that was to have starred Milo Ventimiglia, Estes, and Fenn. But the network dropped the project, citing cost issues due to filming on location in Venice, California.

She played the recurring part of Violet Montgomery on Fox's Boston Public (2003–2004), and appeared in Showtime's Cavedweller (2004) opposite Kyra Sedgwick. In 2004, Fenn joined former co-star Mark Harmon in an episode of NCIS, as an amnesiac woman. She was afterwards cast for the 2004 remake of Mister Ed, planned for the Fox network—but after the pilot was shot, the show's writer/producer, Drake Sather, committed suicide, and the pilot was not aired.

In 2004, Fenn co-starred opposite Traci Lords and Paul Johansson in Emily Skopov's Novel Romance, released in 2006, in which she played a pregnancy shop owner who herself cannot have children. She then appeared in the martial arts film Lesser of Three Evils alongside Ho Sung Pak, Peter Greene, and Roger Guenveur Smith, as the unbalanced and alcoholic wife of a corrupt detective. The film was released in 2009 under the title Fist of the Warrior.

In 2005, Fenn made a appearance on The 4400, playing Jean DeLynn Baker, a 4400 who has the ability to grow toxin-emitting spores on her hands. She also guest-starred on the final episode of Judging Amy.

After finishing the Russia-set action film Treasure Raiders with David Carradine, Fenn starred in the Canadian psychological thriller Presumed Dead, alongside Duncan Regehr, as a detective working on a missing-person case who has to outwit a crime novelist.

In 2006, Fenn reteamed with Amy Sherman-Palladino and reappeared in the sixth and seventh seasons of Gilmore Girls as Anna Nardini, the ex-girlfriend of Luke Danes (played by Scott Patterson) and protective mother to his daughter April. Since the failure of the 2003 Gilmore Girls spin-off project, Sherman-Palladino had continued to want to work with Fenn again, and she wrote the character of Anna with her in mind. When asked why she cast Fenn for two different roles on Gilmore Girls, Sherman-Palladino explained: "I love Sherilyn so much and I don't care. One thing about the show is I just want the best people. I've just been looking constantly for a time to work with Sherilyn, and I'm getting very old and I could just get hit by a truck at any minute. I just simply can't put it off that long, so I'd just rather get her in and have her part of my world." However, after Sherman-Palladino left the show, the direction for the character changed—the producers decided to make her character a villain in a custody battle.

Fenn was cast as the female lead in ABC's 2006 comedy series Three Moons Over Milford, but she was ultimately replaced by Elizabeth McGovern. Fenn was slated for a recurring role on CBS's 2006 crime drama Smith, but the show was quickly canceled.

She appeared in the 2007 Dukes of Hazzard prequel, The Dukes of Hazzard: The Beginning as Lulu Hogg. "It's just a fun silly role," Fenn said. But having already worked with director Robert Berlinger on Rude Awakening, she wanted to do so again.

In July 2006, shortly after shooting The Dukes of Hazzard prequel, Fenn stepped behind the camera for the first time and directed in Pittsburgh a documentary film about child enrichment program CosmiKids and its founder, Judy Julin. She subsequently joined its executive team in 2007 as executive director of the film and television division. In July 2008, Fenn filmed The Scenesters, a black comedy made by Los Angeles-based comedy group The Vacationeers, which premiered in October 2009. In July 2009, Fenn made a guest appearance on In Plain Sight as a lesbian counterfeiter.

In December 2010, Fenn appeared on Psych with other Twin Peaks actors on the season 5 episode "Dual Spires" as sultry librarian Maudette Hornsby. The episode paid homage to Twin Peaks with many references to the show. She reprised her role as Audrey Horne in 2017 for the third season of Twin Peaks. In February 2016, she joined the cast of the American version of Shameless.

In 2016, Fenn wrote and published a children's book titled No Man's Land, about a boy who has autism. She was inspired to write the book after her second son, Christian, was diagnosed with autism.

In 2017, Fenn starred in S.W.A.T. as Karen Street, Jim Street's estranged mother.

In 2022, Sherilyn portrayed Sarah Jane McCubbin, a widow with dementia who plans to be euthanized by her mentally imbalanced son in the psychological drama Losing Addison.

Personal life
Fenn dated pop singer Prince for a short time during 1985 and then actor Johnny Depp the same year; their relationship lasted a few years.

In 1994, Fenn married guitarist-songwriter Toulouse Holliday, whom she met on the set of Three of Hearts.

Fenn is the mother of two boys: Myles, born in 1993, and Christian, born in 2007.

Fenn began practicing Transcendental Meditation in 2014.

Awards and nominations

 * 1990: Nominated for an Emmy Award for Outstanding Supporting Actress in a Drama Series – Twin Peaks
 * 1991: Nominated for a Golden Globe Award for Best Performance by an Actress in a Supporting Role in a Series, Mini-Series or Motion Picture Made for TV – Twin Peaks

Other recognition

 * Fenn made the cover of such magazines as New York, Rolling Stone (along with Mädchen Amick and Lara Flynn Boyle), Playboy, Entertainment Weekly, The Face, Details, Sky, and Harper's Bazaar.
 * In 1990, Us Weekly chose her as one of the "10 Most Beautiful Women in the World".
 * In 1991, People chose her as one of the "50 Most Beautiful Women in the World".
 * Fenn posed for photographer Steven Meisel for the autumn–winter 1991–1992 Dolce & Gabbana campaign.
 * In 1992, Fenn posed for photographer George Hurrell.
 * Singer and composer Screamin' Jay Hawkins wrote and recorded the 1993 song entitled "Sherilyn Fenn", featured on his album Stone Crazy. The song is an ode to Fenn, who worked with Hawkins in Two Moon Junction.
 * Fenn is mentioned in the song "Razor Burn" by the punk band Lagwagon on their 1995 album Hoss.
 * In 1995, FHM chose her as one of the "100 sexiest women in the world".
 * In 1996, the Daily Mirror chose her as one of the "World's 100 Most Beautiful Women", and Femme Fatales chose her as one of the "50 sexiest sci-fi actresses".
 * Fenn inspired Norwegian hard rock band Audrey Horne, formed in 2002, named after her character in Twin Peaks.
 * In 2006, Australian men's magazine Zoo Weekly chose her as one of the "Top 50 Hottest Babes Ever".
 * In 2020, Fenn attended the inaugural Fayetteville Comic Show along with numerous actors from Twin Peaks (James Marshall, Ray Wise, etc.)
 * In the Dutch graphic novel comedy series about their hero Gilles de Geus, which is set during the formation of the Netherlands during the 80 year war against Spain, creators Hanco Kolk and Peter de Wit modeled their femme fatale spy, 90-60-90, after Fenn.

Music video

 * Bunbury – "Deseos de usar y tirar" (2020)

title: Sherilyn Fenn


text:
Partisan (weapon)

A partisan (also known as a partizan), a type of polearm, was used in Europe during the 16th, 17th, and 18th centuries. It consisted of a spearhead mounted on a long wooden shaft, with protrusions on the sides which aided in parrying sword thrusts.

The partisan was often used by infantry soldiers, who would deploy the weapon to fend off cavalry charges. The protrusions on the sides of the spearhead were useful for catching and trapping an opponent's sword, allowing the user to disarm the opposition. In profile, the head of a partisan may look similar to other types of polearm, such as the halberd, pike, ranseur, spontoon, ox tongue, or spetum.

The arrival of practical firearms led to the obsolescence of the partisan and of other polearms. Despite this, partisans continued in use for many years as a ceremonial weapon. Ceremonial partisans can still be seen in the hands of guards at important buildings or events.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Partisan (weapon)


text:
Talk:Janez Janša

Real Name
How can you be sure that his name is Ivan? Just because some serbian judge wrote that? Janez Janša himself explained that his real name is Janez and not Ivan. He wrote that on his facebook, but he had to delete this post later. However, a copy of it is still published here: Can someone please give me concrete proof that his name is Ivan and not Janez, otherwise I'm going to correct the mistake in the article... 93.103.20.150 (talk) 20:08, 28 April 2011 (UTC)

Is this supposed to be a joke? Check http://volitve.gov.si/dz2008/kandidati/lista_10.html, he is listed there as Ivan Janša. Gapez0r (talk) 19:36, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

Janez Janša Not Ivan — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.212.220.154 (talk) 10:52, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

Ivan Janša
As his official name is Ivan Janša, I believe this text should be moved to page 'Ivan Janša' and this page should redirect there. I'd do it myself, but I'm not an experienced user, so I hope somebody who has the time and knowledge will do it. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gapez0r (talk • contribs) 19:50, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Thanks for your contribution. This is a controversial move and probably would not gain consensus, but you may try following the instructions at WP:RM. His most known name is Janez, so that's why he is under this name. --Eleassar my talk 14:01, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Please note that according to Wikipedia's policy of common names, these are often to be preferred over official names. --RJFF (talk) 20:27, 2 March 2012 (UTC)

 * It's "Ivan Janša" on the ballot. There were no other SDS candidates of that name in the last election. I actually checked.86.61.126.218 (talk) 20:02, 6 June 2013 (UTC)

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External links modified
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Could someone verify that Janez Janos, as Slovenian PM congratulated Trump in winning the 2020 presidency ?
It was widely reported about 5 November 2020 that Janez Janos, as the Slovenian PM, had congratulated Donald Trump in WINNING the US presidency , when in fact , Joe Biden was declared the winner 3 days later. Ken Kransky (talk) 20:48, 7 November 2020 (UTC)

Proposed merge of Janšizem into Janez Janša
Given the content of the lead for Janšizem, it seems like this topic should be covered as part of Janša's biography rather than separately. signed,Rosguill talk 21:46, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Support merger, which I was going to propose myself. Mccapra (talk) 22:09, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Suppport merge to put Janšizem in proper context. Pichpich (talk) 19:03, 12 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Support merge Vacant0 (talk) 21:46, 26 January 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ Klbrain (talk) 02:17, 30 December 2021 (UTC)

Reference #1
Reference #1 is highly dubious, to put it mildly. Janša's height is listed as 166cm on Wiki and the reference it points to says 7 feet 1 inch or 155cm (neither of which is 166cm, might I add). The reference page also seems completely outdated (listing Janša as 60 years old, when he's 63 now, listing him as having no children even though he has at least 2 from the marriage and several from beforehand, AFAIK). I could go on, but you get the point. 94.103.68.231 (talk) 18:51, 22 December 2021 (UTC)
 * The reference is obviously rubbish. I'll remove it. --Tone 19:51, 22 December 2021 (UTC)

Shouldn't the whole entry be re-written in a more neutral way?
The article concerns one of the most senior and experienced Slovenian politicians, who has served as PM for 8 years in 32 years of Slovenian history, the president of the party that consistently wins around 30% of votes, one of the most representative and widely renowned persons of modern Slovenia... The entry now reads as if it was covering some controversial character walking a thin line between prison and citizen abuse, while in reality he is the most prominent fighter against the heritage of communism, political mafia and corruption in the underground structures of Slovenian politics and statehood. He is acknowledged as such by most prominent foreign actors while in this article mostly marginal anarcho-liberal stands and views of non-free Slovenian media are represented.

This all puts our country in a very strange light, it is humiliating for a Slovenian citizen and gives a false impression to foreigners not familiar with Slovenian history and present situation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 158.169.40.15 (talk) 16:04, 16 March 2022 (UTC)

Subjective nature of this article
This article is not objective and lacks citations. It is somewhat politicaly motivated and it is very different from article in slovenian 92.37.3.73 (talk) 19:37, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Janez Janša


text:
Talk:Eric Shinseki

Article Has No early Life Section
This article has no early life section. Most biographical articles do.

65.101.228.154 (talk) 23:42, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

NPOV
Frontline had a great piece on the controversy surrounding the troop estimates of Rumsfeld, Shinseki and the tensions created along with interviews from current and former members of the administration, truly fascinating.

Following from interview with General Michael DeLong (Frontline):

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/darkside/interviews/delong.html#iraqplan

There was the whole fight between [Gen. Eric] Shinseki, [Secretary of the Army] Gen. Tommy White and Rumsfeld about how many troops to have on the ground. Where were you on that fight? What do you make of that? ...

... Gen. Shinseki was chief of staff of the Army. One of his jobs is to preserve the Army for the future. If in fact you could do a major war like this with less people, was not necessarily good for the Army. Not that that was his motivation, but you've got all these things going through his mind.

He's also looking back and he's getting recommendations from prior commanders that have fought in Iraq, and the number came out. If you're a general, you usually never want to take a risk. You go in [with] overwhelming force; it's just easier. That's sort of the Powell doctrine. ...

We couldn't do overwhelming force and also have surprise. So the number 500,000, first of all, we couldn't get them there. ... Given the size of the force we had at the time, you'd never have any backup. That thing lasted longer than six months, ... you got no more people. Right now, we've used our guard and reserve twice. They've been over there as much as active duty has.

So when you know that Shinseki and Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are fighting in front of Congress, how was that for you guys? You just think it was all political chaff?

Well, to be honest, there was only a very small number of people that knew the plan. The plan started with a small number and could have gone big. So we were comfortable that we had the right size force and if we had to go to 500,000, we could have gone to 500,000. We had them standing by, ready to go. But we didn't think we'd need them. And we had the right size force to get in there early.

To be honest, this was another tactical, operational -- not just a success. The way this war was planned was only second to the war the war was planned in Afghanistan. I think 20 years from now, these will go down in history and Franks will be the Napoleon of the 21st century because of Afghanistan and the way he fought -- not phrase IV -- but the way he fought both these wars. ...

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/endgame/themes/rumsfeld.html

Here's an annotated link to the whole piece... video available.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/bushswar/cron/ Kerry and other Democrats say:

 * After testifying to United States Congress that the 2003 Iraq War would require perhaps twice as many or more troops than predicted by the George W. Bush Administration and Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, Shinseki was essentially forcibly retired by the Administration.

Others say that he was forced out, but that the retirement announcement came BEFORE the troop requiremnts testimony. Let's get this resolved before putting this sentence back in.

Also, see retirement of General Shinseki. --Uncle Ed 17:04, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I have to disagree here. I agree that "Shinseki was essentially forcibly retired by the Administration" is a POV interpretation, and that should be taken out.  But the fact that many observers including the current Democratic Presidential candidate and the subject of the article believe his retirement to be forced and politically motivated, should go in -- along, of course with the fact that many observers including the current Administration dispute this interpretation.  I mean, there's simply no consistency in saying "Let's have an entire article, retirement of General Shinseki, about the controversy over this retirement, but let's remove any reference to the controversy from the article on the man himself."  -- Antaeus Feldspar

Antaeus, I agree with you, and I've found quotes to back up the first 2 points you make. But before we insert the last point (about Bush administration 'disputing' the forced retirement thing), we better get some quotes.

Specifically, we have to distinguish between:
 * 1) They concede he was forced to reture, but say it was over war-fighting philosophy (not for the troop-strength statement); or,
 * 2) They dispute the claim that he was forced to retire (for any reason).

It looks like they wanted to fire him for a long time. Then, if I have the timeline right, they announced his retirement. It was only AFTER the retirement, that he made the troop-strength remark.

So the dispute would be between:

 * Democrats said he was forced out BECAUSE he made the troop-strength remark.
 * Republicans say they decided to force him out BEFORE he made the troop-strength remark.

Am I reading this stuff correctly? It seems a bit confusing: chicken and egg, cart before horse, tail wagging the dog. What really happened here? --Uncle Ed 17:32, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * I think you're misunderstanding me, Ed. You're saying we have to solve the controversy, that we have to determine the real reason General Shinseki retired, before we can put anything about it into this article.

 * I'm saying that we don't have to solve anything. Particularly on this article; for us to indefinitely hold back on even admitting that there is a controversy because we haven't come to a consensus (as if we'd ever be likely to) on what the 'real story' behind the retirement is, makes no sense; it would be as if the news networks failed to mention that the Challenger blew up until the Rogers Commission Report verified that it was the O-rings that caused the disaster.

 * I don't think we have to do that -- or should do that -- even on the "Retirement of General Shinseki" article. Even assuming we could, it would be original research.  What we need to concentrate on on this article is simply acknowledging the fact of the controversy; on the Retirement of General Shinseki article, we need to put in facts, but we only need to put in interpretations if they're somehow notable in and of themselves (for instance, the candidates' interpretations.)  -- Antaeus Feldspar 18:03, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Well, I just read in a newspaper article here that makes no bones about it: "Shinseki, was rebuked by Rumsfeld and his career essentially ended." But the article as it stands says he served out his term and retired on schedule. My question is: can a chief of staff be appointed for another term? I mean, couldn't they have kept him in the job longer? Often not renewing someone's contract is tantamount to firing them. Would the sentence be more balanced if instead of "in fact, however, he served his full term and retired on schedule" it said "he did complete his full 4-year term, but he was not reappointed for another"? --Smithfarm 16:39, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I don't think there's any law that would prevent a Defense Secretary from re-appointing a Chief of Staff, but it would be utterly unprecedented. Since the fixed 4-year term was introduced, no Chief of Staff of the United States Army has ever served more than one term. The last one to serve more than 4 years was George Marshall, and you'll remember that there was a war on; almost as soon as it was over, he retired (and I think that was before there was a fixed term for the job). The idea that his career was harmed in any way by the many disputes he had with Rumsfeld is utterly without foundation.

For that matter, I'd like someone to explain exactly how this "leak" was supposed to have undermined his authority. Even supposing that Rumsfeld really had decided to appoint Keane, and that the "leak" came from Rumsfeld (and we have no reason to suppose either of those things), how was this supposed to have had that effect? Everyone knew that Shinseki's term would end no later than June 2003, and that someone would replace him then. How would having that person's name be known have changed anything? zsero 18:33, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

I am not comfortable enough with the facts to make any changes myself, but I would agree that this article doesn't seem to be communicating the controversy effectively... the consensus seems to be that Gen. Shinseki did not make administration figures happy with his comments, and the language in the article equivocates and seems to almost weasel out of saying as much. ("However, it was seen by some as undercutting Shinseki's authority within the Army in some unspecified manner." is an especially confusing sentence.) Regardless of whether he was forced into retirement early, I would suggest that you tighten up the writing to emphasize that the central point of the controversy is that a) Gen. Shinseki contradicted his political masters; and b) the DoD officials "rebuked" Gen. Shinseki for his comments. See this NYT article for details (which includes some interesting comments from Gen. Myers): http://www.nytimes.com/2006/04/17/washington/17military.html

Hope that helps... I don't mean to be critical, it just seems like there's some beating around the bush.

Loremipsum 04:30, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Of course he didn't make them happy with his testimony to Congress, but the "leak" about his replacement had absolutely nothing to do with that. That's undisputable. And "seen by some as undercutting his authority in some unspecified manner" means that, so far, I haven't seen anybody explain how the "leak" was supposed to have this effect. And that's assuming that the press report was in fact a deliberate leak from Rumsfeld or someone close to him, and not a) someone carelessly letting slip something he shouldn't have, or b) someone without a clue, who was just making shit up. The central point of the controversy is that Shinseki was not retired, or otherwise punished, for his testimony, but nor did everyone take his opinion as gospel. zsero 01:52, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

 * In a military environment I think it should be pretty obvious how having his replacement leaked well prior to what is normal would undercut his authority. First, it signals an eagerness to replace him on the part of the civilian administration, which sends a strong message indicating a lack of faith or support in his leadership.  On a more day to day basis, it creates an alternate person to bring ideas to.  Personnel realize that this new replacement has the ear of the Secretary of Defense and, while he may not be able to act on proposals immediately, will be able to do so in the near future.  The military is all about the chain of command;  anouncing the future chain of command to early creates confusion.  Of course, as mentioned, there's absolutely no way to verify whether this is is legitimate, and as the person named in the leak [i]didn't[/i] become Chief of Staff it may very well not be.  Astarf 20:21, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

Numbering
The article says that Shinseki is the 34th Chief of Staff of the US Army, yet the article [Chief of Staff of the United States Army] puts him at 35th. Which is it? --Calton 01:23, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.73.79.254 (talk) 19:27, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

His own End of Tour Memorandum (http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/opinions/documents/shinseki.pdf) is signed as 34th.

--Walts0042 (talk) 21:34, 21 December 2008 (UTC)

Born in Hawaii
Fortunately for young Shinseki to be born in Hawaii, as "Sansei" in 1942.

The Sansei are the third generation of Japanese Americans living in America. Some of the older Sansei, on the continent, were born in the relocation camps and may have only the vaguest of childhood memories concerning their days behind the barbed wire fences. However, most Sansei know very little about their parent's wartime experiences in the relocation camps and for some, in military or civil service.

The Sansei helped the Nisei bring the issue of reparations for the economic losses suffered due to the forced relocation and evacuation. Although the government had not admitted wrong doing and had never issued an apology, a movement began in the 1970's to seek redress. The Japanese American Citizens league and the newly formed National Coalition for Redress and Reparations began lobbying for reparation payments to the people who were interned. There was opposition to the redress movement from some veteran groups and others, but slowly the redress movement gained support in Congress. On February 19th 1976 President Gerald Ford signed Proclamation 4417 which referred to the evacuation as a "national mistake". Although not a formal apology, President Ford's action was the first step on the long road back from shame and despair.

On August 10th 1988 the "Civil Liberties Act of 1988" passed by Congress and signed by President Ronald Reagan made way for appropriations of $1.25 billion for $20,000 in reparations to Japanese American internees and an official Presidential apology on behalf of the United States government to those evacuees and their families.

On October 1st 1993, President William Jefferson Clinton signed an official Presidential apology on behalf of the United States government to those Japanese Americans and their families affected by the internment. In the apology it is stated, "In retrospect, we understand that the nation's actions were rooted deeply in racial prejudice, wartime hysteria, and a lack of political leadership."

Takima 19:14, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Use of Japanese written form of his name
I find the use of Japanese characters in the general's name, and Asian-Americans persons in general, to be inconsistent with the general usage of non-Roman versions of proper names on Wikipedia.

Typically for proper names of European descent, the non-Roman version of their name is only given if the person has a strong association with the nation/region associated with that language, either by citizenship or other activity; ancestry by itself doesn't seem to trigger the inclusion of non-Romanized names. For example, the Hebrew version of Albert Einstein is not given, but it is for Yitzhak Rabin. I find this convention to be agreeable because it does not emphasize ancestry in articles where it is not warranted. Certainly the fact that Einstein was a Jew is a fact worth mentioning elsewhere in the article.

In the case of this article, the use of the non-Romanized name in the first five words is particularly noticable because of the general's life, service, and actions strongly associate him with the United States, and one might say that he has earned the right to be represented as an American general first and foremost. As an ironic aside, the European name "Eric" is represented in romanized Japanese katakana characters.

I appreciate the work of linguaphiles that take the time to translate names, but in this case I believe that the tone of the article is better served without it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Hashkey (talk • contribs).

I concur. He's American, Japanese-American if you want to be technical, not Japanese. If you really wanted to be political about it, Japan itself would probably prefer to write his name in katakana rather than kanji, since he's foreign-born.

Actually there is no Japanese surname called "Shinseki". Shinseki means relative or inlaws in Japanese. I think his name is a made up name or a mixed name created by his great grandparents who came to Hawaii long ago. There are many names that start with "Shin" and "Seki" or end with "Seki" but I have never heard of a surname called Shinseki. Actaully the Japanese think it's funny that people outside of Japan think it's a true Japanese surname when it is not.

I have no idea where the person above thought of that, but there IS a Japanese surname called "Shinseki". Also, other asian americans such as Gary Locke, 3rd generation chinese, have his name displayed in Chinese as well, and so the display of Eric Shinseki's name with Japanese name may not be inappropriate. It really depends on how Mr. Shinseki views himself. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.24.194 (talk) 04:52, 20 March 2010 (UTC)

Claims of insubordination
has been repeatedly inserting the sentence "According to one source, Shinseki came close to insubordination." and has provided the following citation and no other: Babbin, Jed "Purge of the Princelings?" National Review Online, August 14, 2003. Among Zsero's defenses of this addition in edit summaries: Now, if the cited piece, which even Zsero acknowledges is Jed Babbin's opinion piece, had contained a factual claim that someone Babbin was writing about stated Shinseki to have come close to insubordination -- for instance, if Donald Rumsfeld made such a statement, and Babbin reported it -- then it might be a legitimate addition, though we would prefer getting a citation for it from a news article rather than someone's opinion article. If, however, the "one source" that Zsero is Jed Babbin himself, then Zsero is completely incorrect to describe it as a "factual claim" and a "STATEMENT OF FACT" -- it is Jed Babbin's opinion, and it is completely incorrect to regard it as 'Jed Babbin's factual claim about what Jed Babbin's opinion is' or the like; if such a procedure was legitimate, there would be absolutely no opinion that could not be promoted to a so-called "STATEMENT OF FACT" by similar means. However, having examined the alleged source, the above is entirely moot, because Babbin's opinion piece does not contain any statement at all, from Babbin or from anyone else, that Shinseki came close to insubordination. The word "insubordination" does not even appear in the piece. The idea that Shinseki "came close to insubordination" appears to be wholly Zsero's own original research based on Babbin's opinion piece. Needless to say, it is inappropriate for the article. -- Antaeus Feldspar 21:02, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * "There's no WP policy requiring double sourcing; in any case, the text makes it clear that it's single-sourced, as are many facts cited on WP. Or are you calling Jed Babbin a liar?"
 * "all irrelevant. the article isn't cited for those PREDICTIONS which didn't come true, but for a STATEMENT OF FACT."
 * "restoring. it remains a factual claim from a reputable journalist, and is explicitly qualified as single-sourced. 193.130.196.1 has a history of bad-faith vandalism"
 * "sigh. once again, it's a FACT cited from a reputable source, and appropriately qualified. That the fact is contained in an OPINION piece is irrelevant. Editor has demonstrated bad faith."

 * This has nothing to do with me. I have not been "repeatedly inserting" the piece, I've been repeatedly reverting the vandal's attempts to remove it.  There's a big difference, and I'd thank you to remember it.
 * Nor does Babbin offer it as opinion; he presents it as an actual fact, from an anonymous source (emphasis mine):
 * According to an Army source [...] Let me run things my way, said Shinseki, and I'll make you look really good on the Hill. But forget about transformation. The Army doesn't need it, and we don't plan to do it. Rumsfeld, to the surprise of his interlocutors, declined the offer they thought he couldn't refuse.
 * The reason the source would want anonymity is obvious, and it's common journalistic practise to provide anonymity under such circumstances. Unless someone has a reason to suppose that Babbin has made this up, it deserves as much credence as any similar source.  Nevertheless, the article does qualify the statement as coming from a single source, and the reference is provided, so the reader can form her own judgment.
 * The fact that Babbin's article as a whole is an opinion piece isn't at all relevant. Opinion pieces by reputable journalists, published in reputable journals, often contain factual revelations, which form the basis for the writer's speculations, predictions, and opinions.  The latter are not citable on WP; the former are.  The "outing" of Valarie Plame occured in an opinion piece by Robert Novak; nobody would suggest that it's therefore not citable as fact on WP.
 * Bottom line: the allegation belongs in the article, and I will continue to resist attempts to remove it, particularly attempts by Mr IP Addresses, who has already demonstrated his bad faith by randomly vandalising various unrelated pages.
 * I am going to wait until at least 9pm EST tonight (about 4 hours from now) before reverting, to give you (or anyone else) a chance to convince me that I should not. After that, if I have not been convinced, I will revert it.
 * Zsero 21:43, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
 * First off, kindly cease immediately referring to the person who is -- quite rightly, according to everything I see -- disputing content with you as a "vandal". "Vandalism" has a quite specific meaning on Wikipedia and specifically excludes good-faith edits even if such edits are erroneous, which in this case they are not.
 * As for your "actual fact", you are still offering us original research and calling it "actual fact". Nowhere in the piece does it says that Eric Shinseki came close to insubordination.  Period.  The fact that you judge certain attitudes purportedly expressed by General Shinseki to "come close to insubordination" means absolutely nothing.  Or are you saying that any time any editor reads in the New York Times about particular actions taken by George W. Bush and feels that those actions come close to treason against the people of the United States of America, that editor is justified in inserting "According to the New York Times, George W. Bush has come close to treason against the people of the United States"?
 * As regards the passage you quote, even if you were not offering your own interpretation of that passage rather than the passage itself, it's doubtful we would choose to use it anyways. Why?  Because it's already interpretation, rather than any sort of fact.  It isn't what Shinseki actually said, it's what some anonymous source interpreted Shinseki to mean.  We don't need "a reason to suppose that Babbin has made this up" to doubt the significance of this account, we only need a reason to doubt that some anonymous person's belief about what Shinseki's statements amounted to was an accurate representation of what Shinseki actually said.  You make the point that factual revelations have been made in opinion pieces, but this is irrelevant to the current case, because the passage you are basing your insertions on contain not one single fact.  We don't know that Shinseki said "Let me run things my way and I'll make you look really good on the Hill."  We don't know that Shinseki said "forget about transformation. The Army doesn't need it, and we don't plan to do it."  All we know is that some anonymous source interpreted it that way.
 * Bottom line: the allegation does not belong in the article, because it is your original research based on what was itself very dubious "reporting".  If you reinsert it, it will be removed again, as Wikipedia policy calls for original research to be removed.
 * As for your accusations of bad faith against so-called "Mr IP Addresses", I hardly need to point out that IP addresses do not always represent the same individual. If the same IP address is used repeatedly within a short span of time it's a fair bet that it's the same individual, but you single out  and allege that he/she "has a history of bad-faith vandalism".  There are only four edits that have even taken place from that IP address in the last week, and none of those can be classified as vandalism.  You would do well to apologize and concentrate from here on restricting your edits to what is actually supported by your sources. -- Antaeus Feldspar 00:45, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

 * That's all very well, except that is the same person as, , , and , who engaged in clear bad-faith vandalism.  Which you'd realise if you looked at the history of this particular edit war unrest.
 * As for the substance of the alleged fact, Babbin's source told him as a fact that Shinseki had told the SecDef that his orders would not be implemented. To say that that comes close to insubordination is hardly "original research".  It's a perfectly obvious one-phrase summary of what the article says.  If anything, it pulls its punch, and should say "was insubordinate".  (His testimony to Congress was itself clear insubordination, hardly different than the behaviour for which Macarthur was fired, but the paragraph in question is talking about the history of tension between Shinseki and Rumsfeld long before this testimony.  Babbin's article is cited to show that it went all the way back to the day Rumsfeld first became Shinseki's boss.)
 * Zsero 07:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I only have your word that all those IP addresses are the same person and I only have your word that those IP addresses "engaged in clear bad-faith vandalism" in a time frame that would indicate it was actually the same person you are referring to now. Since I also had your word on it that an anonymous source reported that Shinseki was close to insubordination and that turned out to be only your own original research, you're going to have to come up with some more convincing evidence.
 * And yes, it is all your own original research. It is your interpretation of the implications of what Babbin reported as being the substance of what an anonymous source reported to be the substance of Shinseki's actual statements.  Even if you had access to the actual, verified, unedited transcripts of everything Shinseki said at that meeting, you are not a reliable source who can judge who "came close to insubordination" and who didn't.  The fact that you are trying to make that judgement based not on actual, verified, unedited transcripts of Shinseki's words but on nothing that even pretends to be Shinseki's actual words just makes the fact of the original research all the more blatant. -- Antaeus Feldspar 16:52, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You don't "only have my word"; you can easily look at the history of this particular edit to see that all of those IP addresses are the same person, and you can check each of their contribution history to see that they each engaged in clear bad-faith vandalism.
 * And summarising a lengthy quote in one phrase is not "original research", it's what an encyclopaedian does. Is there another interpretation that can be put on Shinseki's words, as Babbin's source reported them?
 * I'm giving you until midnight tonight EST (i.e. nearly another 10 hours) to convince me not to revert your removal of the sentence in question. (Note that I am not "repeatedly inserting it", Mr IP Adresses, and now you, are repeatedly removing it.)
 * Zsero 19:49, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

 * First of all, you are not "summarising a lengthy quote" because you are not summarising a quote. There are no quote marks around the words that supposedly represent what Shinseki said, because they are not his actual words but an anonymous party's interpretation of his words.  Second of all, even if it was a quote or we had reason to believe that they were at least an accurate rendition of Shinseki's words -- which we do not -- you are not "summarising a lengthy quote" because you are not summarizing, you are judging.  Is the gist of what Shinseki is allegedly saying "I am coming close to insubordination"?  No?  Then your insertion of "Shinseki came close to insubordination" is not "summarising", it is insertion of your own personal judgment, which is prohibited both before midnight tonight EST and after midnight tonight EST.  End of story. -- Antaeus Feldspar 22:48, 1 January 2007 (UTC)
 * You keep harping on this, but you still don't claim there is any other possible meaning to what Shinseki is reported to have told Rumsfeld. Telling ones superior that his plan will not be implemented is insubordination; that's what the word means.  "Came close to" is pulling the punch.  And whether it's in quote marks or not, it's what Babbin's source told him Shinseki said.  I'm not convinced, so unless I see a better argument within half an hour, I'm going to restore the line, as it was before the vandal with the multiple IP addresses started messing with it.  Zsero 04:28, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * Sorry, no. If you were yourself a reliable source then perhaps your opinion about what constitutes insubordination and what does not would be encyclopedic, but you are not.  You are simply a private citizen who is working from an account at least two generations removed from what actually happened and with an understanding of what "insubordination" means that is not necessarily perfect.  You seem to think, for instance, that replying to what a superior says, under any possible circumstances, with anything other than "yes", is insubordination.  You seem blissfully unaware that whether Shinseki's response to Rumsfeld could be described as "insubordination" might depend on whether Rumsfeld was presenting his 'plan' as an order, something that the Babbin piece does not establish.  Or is it your understanding that the role of the Chief of Staff of the United States Army is purely as a rubber stamp for the Secretary of Defense, that he is not supposed to respond with anything but "yes" even if he thinks a plan presented to him by the Secretary of Defense is ill-considered?  It seems to me that perhaps the chief military adviser to the President of the United States on Army matters just might be in a position to have some opinion about plans for the Army -- and yes, even to say "No way, Jose" until such time as it is presented not just as "a plan" but as an order.  You are asking the wrong question when you demand to know if anyone has a different interpretation of what Shinseki (purportedly) said; such a question distracts from the essential fact that you are not a reliable source we would look to for interpreting what Shinseki said in the first place, and certainly not from an account so many generations removed from the original. -- Antaeus Feldspar 05:03, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Way too many levels of indentation, so I'm breaking back to zero. If a subordinate officer thinks his superior's idea is a bad one, it's his duty to say "this is a bad idea, and you should reconsider it". It is emphatically not his duty or his right to say "not going to happen". That is insubordination. (Publicly undermining one's superior's policy is also insubordination, which is what his testimony amounted to, but as I said that's not the topic of this paragraph.) You've failed to convince me, so I'm reinserting it. But I've emailed Mr Babbin, to see if he can shed any further light on what exactly it was that his source told him. Perhaps his reply will convince me to reconsider. Zsero 05:43, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 * UPDATE: How about this: why don't we let the reader decide for herself what constitutes insubordination? I've changed it to "According to one source, at their first meeting Shinseki told Rumsfeld that his orders would not be implemented."  I hope that's a compromise you can live with.
 * Zsero 05:47, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe the quoted article should be included in an encyclopedia. I have not removed it but will detail my complaints later. In the meantime, I have included a quote from Rumsfeld himself praising Shinseki after the alleged insubordination. I expect Zsero to remove it because it simply doesn't agree with his viewpoint. I've only posted one article where Rumsfeld praises Shinseki, though there are numerous ones.

No one has charged Gen. Shinseki with insubordination. Not the US Army, not Rumsfeld, not any Judge Advocate General. Implicit within military authority is the power of the superior to discern insubordination within certain limits. While the dispute over Gen. Shinseki's alleged insubordination seems to be carried out in second-hand heresay, it is not, by definition, insubordination as the superior involved (Rumsfeld) did not charge him with insubordination. What may be insubordination to one person isn't insubordination to another. This discretionary power and flexibility of command is inherent to any understanding of military authority. It's only insubordination, if and only if, his superiors deem it to be so, and if he is duly charged and convicted, or pleads guilty or otherwise makes no contest. I believe any insinuation or accusation of insubordination violates terms regarding living people and their bios, when it is not borne out by any other involved principal parties. There is no controversy here outside of armchair laywers, generals and pundits. There is no legal, military or professional controversy regarding insubordination; only watercooler talk about whether or not they got along. That does not qualify as historical or relevant. Anything more is coming dangerously close to defamation. -PRS

The whole article is a nice whitewash of Shinseki's less than stellar Army leadership and an artfully crafted smear of Rumsfeld, it really reflects nicely on Wikipedia's reputation. Awotter 21:13, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

 * Give me a break - all history will remember that Rumsfeld was incompetent and that Shinseki warned against deploying too small a force.   —Preceding unsigned comment added by Antarctica moon (talk • contribs) 10:36, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Retirement
Sorry, I don't really know how to use this site -- just read the article, and was startled by this passage: "Contrary to Democratic candidate John Kerry's claim, in the first debate of the 2004 presidential election, Shinseki was not "retired" for his testimony before Congress. His official term as Chief of the Army ended four months later and he retired as scheduled." This is followed by an endnote (16), but the cited article does not, in any way, support the claim. This passage is phrased in a way that intends to resolve or take a stance on a political dispute; it says, essentially, that John Kerry and other Democrats were mistaken, or that they were lying; but it fails to even begin to meet the burden of proof. 71.229.156.105 13:13, 12 January 2007 (UTC)New Guy

 * The reference was added by User:ERcheck on 2006-05-27, presumably to prove that Shinseki did indeed retire on schedule. The relevant quotes are: Shinseki retired ... June 11, and As I was on the first day of my tenure four years ago.  I don't see what greater proof you could ask for that Kerry was wrong to claim that "they retired him" for his testimony.  Zsero 18:41, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

 * while Shinseki did retire according to his term, Rumsfeld effectively sliced his career off by announcing his replacement 3 months early. Normally, your successor is not announced until a few weeks ahead of your planned retirement date, subject of course to the scheduling needs of the senate, but by announcing his successor immediately, Shinseki was sidelined on major decisions as people, organizations, power centers, started working with his expected successor. Shinseki immediately became a lame duck.

--Patbahn (talk) 22:38, 18 January 2020 (UTC)

Text of retirement speech
I've been looking for the text of Shinseki's retirement speech, which was very memorable. It would be nice to include it as a reference. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Chrisbak (talk • contribs) 04:57, 27 April 2007 (UTC).

 * https://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/12/us/retiring-army-chief-of-staff-warns-against-arrogance.html

 * https://www.govinfo.gov/content/pkg/CREC-2003-06-18/html/CREC-2003-06-18-pt1-PgS8119.htm

"Our Army's soldiers and leaders have earned our country's     highest admiration and our citizens' broad support. But even      as we congratulate our soldiers when we welcome them home      from battle, we must beware of the tendency some may have to      draw the wrong conclusions, the wrong lessons from recent      operations, remembering all the while that no lesson is      learned until it changes behavior. We must always maintain      our focus on readiness. We must ensure that the Army has the      capabilities to match the strategic environment in which we      operate, a force sized correctly to meet the strategy set      forth in the documents that guide us--our national security      and national military strategies. Beware the 12-division strategy for a 10-division army. Our soldiers and families bear the risk and the hardship of carrying a mission load that exceeds what force capabilities we can sustain, so we must alleviate risk and hardship by our willingness to resource the mission requirement. And we must remember that decisive victory often has less to do with the plan than it does with years invested in the training of soldiers and the growing of leaders. Our nation has seen war too many times to believe that victory on the battlefield is due primarily to     the brilliance of a plan--as opposed to leadership, tactical and technical proficiency, sheer grit and determination of     the men and women who do the fighting and the bleeding."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Patbahn (talk • contribs) 03:28, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

Party
Is Shinseki a Democrat or Republican? Therequiembellishere (talk) 19:21, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
 * everyone belongs to a party now? Nar Matteru (talk) 23:51, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Given that he was in the military, it's entirely possible the guy is really just non-partisan. Most military officials tend to be more realist in their foreign policy (like Scowcroft and Powell), which has become more of a Democratic position. On the other hand, they do tend to be more conservative on other issues. Given that he's dealing with military veterans, he'll just be implementing the policy that Obama wants to put forward so it's really won't matter. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.123.224.105 (talk) 04:04, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

need new picture
As soon as possible, a new picture with him wearing glasses and a civilian suit is needed. I presume that when he becomes Secretary, there will be a photo. Chergles (talk) 19:48, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

non political/carreer life info
I mean I know his military/political career is the basis for his notability, but can we have some information on the man himself too? Is he married, kids, involved in any activities outside the military etc? Nar Matteru (talk) 00:36, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Dude - his family and life is the US ARMY.Antarctica Moon

 * Hardy har. I'm serious on this Nar Matteru (talk) 02:02, 9 December 2008 (UTC)

awards section
Is this section accurate? I'm pretty sure he can't be a recipient of all four distinguished service medals. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.9.160.184 (talk) 10:04, 31 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I checked VA's official bio and it just says "Distinguished Service Medal", which I take to be the army one. Will change now. Tim Song (talk) 03:06, 16 February 2009 (UTC)
 * I hope you don't mind, I took the liberty of updating the changes in his info box at top as well according to the information on the VA site. Specifically, I removed the Navy, Air Force and Coast Guard DSMs as well as the number 2's behind the Defense and Army DSMs.Bristus (talk) 13:04, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

Found some useful links to update this section: UCSB, Halls of Valor.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 05:56, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

 * 67.9.160.184 is correct, the Service specific distinguished service medals can only be awarded to members of their specific service. If one Service wants to award a distinguished service medal to someone from a different Service, they submit paperwork for the joint version of that award, such as the Defense Distinguished Service Medal or the Homeland Security Distinguished Service Medal.  The references cited by RightCowLeftCoast are not official records of Mr. Shinseki's honors and can be subject to incorrect information. --McChizzle (talk) 15:30, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * So are you saying that the UC-Santa Barbra Presidency Project is not a reliable source? It is used widely across Wikipedia as a reliable source, as evidenced here:. I would call it a reliable source. Richard Meyers was awarded all of the services' DSMs, at least according to his USAF bio, as was Peter Pace according to his CJC bio after retirement. Regulations change or perhaps general officers are not subject to the same rules as everyone else. EricSerge (talk) 16:30, 30 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Furthermore, there is a Association of the United States Army reference that can be added as well, among others. I understand the concern, however, the official Army record appears to be outdated, and do not appear to take into account the three awardings that can be independently verified in multiple tertiary reliable sources.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 22:42, 31 August 2014 (UTC)

 * I definitely chose the wrong word. The word I should have used was "official" source.  The two examples cited are officers that were Chairmans of the Joint Chiefs; i.e. people who had responsibilities to help and support the other services.  GEN Shinseki was just a service chief (Chief of Staff of the Army) and had no responsibilities to support or serve the other services "with distinction," as these awards would attest too.  Although GEN Shinseki's official DoD bio. is no longer online, checkout this photo from a 2008 Army Birthday celebration.  --2008 was after GEN Shinseki's time in the Army and before he became Secretary.--  Take note that GEN Shinseki is not wearing the other service's DSMs that we are discussing.  If he was awarded them around the time of his retirement from the Army, why is he not wearing them with his other Distinguished Service Medals (his DDSM and his DSM)?  Maybe because he was not a Chairman of the Joint Chiefs, he never had responsibilities to support the other services, and was never officially awarded then (according to his DoD bio. which I cannot find online anymore).  Think about it, how would a Chief of Staff of the Army (CSA) qualify for a Coast Guard Distinguished Service Medal?  How would a CSA “contribute materially to the success of a major Coast Guard command or project?” --McChizzle (talk) 14:19, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * There is no requirement that the subject has to wear all his medals as a retired Soldier. Otherwise, using that photo, one can argue that the subject doesn't have an AAM.
 * Furthermore, There is this reliable source:
 * Therefore it meets WP:VER.--RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 19:16, 14 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Good point, however if someone limits the number of medals they wear they usually limited it to the top three to six highest awards they have earned; if GEN Shinseki is doing that, he should be wearing the other DSMs in question.
 * Good point, however if someone limits the number of medals they wear they usually limited it to the top three to six highest awards they have earned; if GEN Shinseki is doing that, he should be wearing the other DSMs in question.

 * Since I work in the government, I'm use to a more rigorous form or validation that this. I have to use official (".mil," ".gov" or vendor) sites for topics like this, not a bunch of public websites that can say what they want and often reiterate someone else’s false information (not knowing it's false) to save time.  I've seen it happen a lot and we have rules in place to keep us from getting sucked into proliferating false information that gets spread throughout the Internet.  But this is Wikipedia and we don't need official information to make a post, just a reference to another site that said it outside of Wikimedia Commons.  So I'll leave it alone. --McChizzle (talk) 21:21, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

 * It's absolutely possible for Shinseki to have the DSMs from the other services. In fact, it's likely.  Members of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and others in similar high-level positions frequently receive all the DSMs at their retirement -- Defense, Army, Air, Navy, and either Coast Guard or Homeland Defense.  (The Coast Guard's was changed to the Homeland Defense DSM a few years ago).  That would also explain why there are no photos of Shinseki wearing the Navy or Air Force DSM -- if he received them at retirement, he wouldn't have had official photos taken in uniform after his retirement date.  A quick Google search will show that Colin Powell received the DSMs of the Air Force, Navy and Coast Guard.  Peter Pace received the Air Force, Army and Coast Guard DSMs.  Richard Myers received the Army, Navy and Coast Guard DSMs.  William Crowe received the Army, Air Force and Coast Guard DSMs.  I hope this information is useful.
 * Billmckern (talk) 22:21, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

 * Billmckern, actually, no, it's not possible. The branch specific DSMs are authorized only for members of that particular branch; the Defense DSM is for all branches. Check Colin Powell's bios on any number of sites and you'll find only the Defense DSM and Army DSM and all pictures corroberate it. I've not found any with other DSMs you mentioned.

Check these pages for criteria: [] [] [] Bristus (talk) 16:10, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Bristus (talk) -- Actually it is possible. Marine Corps Peter Pace received the Defense DSM, the Navy DSM, and the DSMs from the Army, Air Force and Coast Guard. Peter Pace at Military Times Hall of Valor.  Marine General James Cartwright also received the Defense DSM, Navy DSM, and the DSMs of the Army, Air Force and Coast Guard.  James Cartwright at Military Times Hall of Valor.  Richard Myers received the Defense DSM and the Air Force DSM, as well as the DSMs of the Army, Navy and Coast Guard. Richard Myers biography.  When the Coast Guard DSM was modified to the Homeland Security DSM, one of the first recipients was Craig R. McKinley, the Air Force General who served as Chief of the National Guard Bureau.

 * And there are also historical examples. Army General Daniel Van Voorhis received the Navy Cross as a temporary Colonel during World War I.  And here's a list of other Army recipients of the Navy Cross.

 * I don't know how many more examples I could provide if need be, but I think these are sufficient. I'm sure I'm right on this point.

 * Billmckern (talk) 22:18, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Colin Luther Powell at Military Times Hall of Valor. All Powell's DSM citations are available here.  Eric Shinseki at Military Times Hall of Valor.  All Shinseki's DSM citations are available here.
 * Billmckern (talk) 22:23, 20 April 2015 (UTC)

 * And the reason you might not see photos of someone like Powell or Shinseki with the awards of the other services is that they are typically awarded at retirement -- when a current photo in uniform is no longer necessary.

 * Billmckern (talk) 00:07, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

 * General Ronald R. Fogleman. Air Force Chief of Staff who received Defense Distinguished Service Medal, Air Force Distinguished Service Medal, and the DSMs of the Army and Navy.

 * John R. Jumper, another Air Force General who hit the DSM grand slam.

 * Omar Bradley received the Navy DSM. David E. Jeremiah, Air Force general, received all the DSMs.  Dwight Eisenhower received the Navy DSM.  Douglas MacArthur received the Navy DSM.  John W. Vessey received the Defense DSM and the DSMs of the Army, Navy and Air Force.

 * Billmckern (talk) 00:45, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

 * Admiral Albert Gleaves received the Army DSM. Robert Lee Ghormley, Navy Commander and recipient of the Army DSM.  Russell Sydnor Crenshaw, Navy Commander and Army DSM recipient.  Raymond F. Rees, Army National Guard general who received the Air Force DSM.  Emmett H. Walker was an Army National Guard general who received the Air Force DSM.  Herbert R. Temple was an Army National Guard general who received the Air Force DSM.

 * Billmckern (talk) 01:12, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

Too many indentations to continue. Sorry, haven't been on in a good while. While I agree the militarytimes.com site is the best source I've seen, it is strange that his official bio as the Secretary of the VA did not include the cross-service awards on that website when I made the change. They are normally highly particular about that sort of thing. For now, however, I defer to your source and thank you for the information. Looks like we need to correct the other Wikipedia pages I cited earlier regarding the specific awards. Cheers Bristus (talk) 17:44, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh, additionally, somebody needs to fix the awards section near the bottom that shows he only has one Army DSM. Should show and read (one oak leaf cluster).Bristus (talk) 17:50, 18 November 2015 (UTC)
 * His official Army photos also only show 3 campaign stars for Vietnam and not 4. 38.156.212.41 (talk) 10:45, 27 May 2024 (UTC)

Section POV Tag & Quotefarm Tag
I have recently placed to tags on sections of this article for clean up, and POV review. The vast balance of the article regards the professional relationship between the article's subject and a superior political official, and the article subject's views of operations of an ongoing conflict which some editors may find controversial. The length of the section is the largest part of the entire article and has far more information for a former army officer that served over 30 years in uniform, and is presently the secretary of veterans affairs. As with the Larry Craig article, this section may possibly best be given its own article or placed in a relevant article that already exist regarding any contrivoursies in regards to Operation Iraqi Freedom pre-planning and 2003 operations.

The subsection of the section tagged with POV is far larger then needed due to unneeded quotes that could be summarized and its information given within a sentence. --RightCowLeftCoast (talk) 15:39, 1 September 2009 (UTC)

VA scandal
Why does "VA Scandal" redirect to this Eric Shinseki page without there being any information about the VA scandal on his page? Better yet: Why is there no Wikipedia page for "VA Scandal"? (or is there? did I miss it?) There are literally hundreds of news articles from various reliable sources. This is serious, as the editorial board of the Washington Post states on May 26: "We don’t have a Shinseki problem, in other words. We have a President Obama problem. We have a Congress problem. We have a civil service system “in crisis,” as the Partnership for Public Service said in a recent report." --Cirrus Editor (talk) 22:14, 28 May 2014 (UTC)

 * Why don't you create a page for the scandal. Since the issue is contentious, please try to keep NPOV in mind.  I've broken the scandal mention out into a new section for the Shinseki article and linked to the VA component involved. TeriEmbrey (talk) 14:15, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

 * "VA scandals" are nothing new. The link for VA scandal should probably point to the United States Department of Veterans Affairs, which consequently does not mention the scandal either, or other scandal's for that matter. EricSerge (talk) 18:08, 29 May 2014 (UTC)

 * TeriEmbrey, thanks for the advice. I always try to be careful here on Wikipedia. It's a hotbed, I've found, if you're not on the right side of thought. EricSerge, so, the Fort Lee lane closure scandal deserves a page, where people were late for work, but there are secret waiting lists for American veterans to get health care, the VA's own IG verifies wait list manipulations, and CNN reports that 40 or more vets die while waiting for care, but that doesn't deserve a page. Thanks for the advice. -- Cirrus Editor (talk) 23:46, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

 * you miss my point. VA scandal should point to United States Department of Veterans Affairs or a page about VA scandals. It is probably a failing of content creation that nothing has been added to the United States Department of Veterans Affairs article. WP:RECENTISM guides out thoughts, but a well researched piece should probably cover more than just the current scandal. EricSerge (talk) 01:02, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

 * I agree concerning this redirect being incorrect. Doing a search within the Wikipedia.org search box using "VA Scandal" should not be statically redirected to the person named "Eric Shinseki" unless you are concluding he's guilty.  Nor would I presume a person's public apology to be justification for a quick hanging or lynching.  (ie. "VA Scandal" -> Eric Shinseki (redirect from VA scandal))  The redirect should be focused toward the VA Health Care scandal article(s). --roger (talk) 03:54, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

 * I have started a new article, Veterans Health Administration scandal of 2014, and changed the redirect to this new article. --Pine✉ 09:00, 31 May 2014 (UTC)

"highest-ranked Asian American in the history of the US"
norm mineta and elaine chao were cabinet members. does VA chief of staff really outrank that?? 209.172.25.117 (talk) 22:44, 29 May 2014 (UTC)
 * It refers to his service in the US military, in which indeed he is the highest-ranked Asian-American to date. -- fdewaele, 30 May 2014, 18:09 CET
 * it doesn't say that, tho, unlike the second (new) sentence abt japanese americans specifically.
 * speaking of which, why does that say 2004? given the disparity in dates, it leads the reader to conclude that this was no longer the case in 2009.  let alone 2014.
 * can't we use RECENT dates on these? either there have been some asian-americans/japanese-americans outranking him in the last 5/10 years, or there haven't.  this should be easy to verify with an up-to-the-minute cite.  209.172.25.117 (talk) 19:50, 30 May 2014 (UTC)

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Assessment comment
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First
This sentence sounds strange to me: He was both the first Asian-American four-star general (1997) and then the Secretary of Veterans Affairs.

Both ... and then? Is this supposed to mean that he was also the first Asian-American Secretary of VA? --37.24.183.46 (talk) 12:58, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

 * See if the edit I made reads better.

 * Billmckern (talk) 13:44, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Eric Shinseki


text:
Kings County Savings Bank

Kings County Savings Bank is a former bank building at 135 Broadway in the Williamsburg neighborhood of Brooklyn in New York City. It is an example of French Second Empire-style architecture. Construction of the building began in 1860, to designs of William H. Willcox of Brooklyn, in partnership with prominent New York architect Gamaliel King, working as King & Willcox. The structure was continuously occupied by banks until the 1990s. The Williamsburg Art & Historical Center has operated the building since 1996.

The building became a New York City designated landmark in 1966 and was added to the National Register of Historic Places in 1980.

Architecture
The Kings County Savings Bank building was built between 1860 and 1867. It is 43.5 by on the outside dimension and is constructed of Dorchester sandstone. It has three main floors, each a single large room. On the first and second floors, the main rooms contain six tall Corinthian columns, formed of cast iron, while the third floor is entirely open. The first floor retains its massive gas chandeliers and ornately carved woodwork.

Although the designer of the bank, King's partner William H. Willcox, is relatively unknown, the building is a superb example of the French Second Empire style. For example, the building displays the characteristic Mansard roof, which conceals the fourth story attic.

History
The Kings County Savings Institution was chartered on April 10, 1860. It carried out business in a building called Washington Hall until it purchased the lot on the corner of Bedford Avenue and Broadway and erected a permanent home.

The Kings County Savings Bank has long been considered a landmark of Williamsburg. By 1900, during the construction of the Williamsburg Bridge, the neighborhood had changed, and the Bank building was already seen as an icon of "old Williamsburg." It remains one of the most important historical landmarks in Williamsburg, and was recognized by the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission in 1966, the seventh building to be so designated. It was placed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1980.

"The Kings County Savings Bank is an outstanding example of French Second Empire architecture, displaying a wealth of ornament and diverse architectural elements. A business building of imposing grandeur, the Kings County Savings Bank "represents a period of conspicuous display in which it was not considered vulgar, at least by the people in power, to boast openly of one's wealth. From its scale and general character there is nothing, on the outside, that would distinguish the Kings County Savings Bank from a millionaires mansion." (from History Preserved: New York City Landmarks & Historic Districts, Harmon H. Gladstone & Martha Dalyrmple, Simon & Schuster, 1974).

The building remained in continuous bank ownership and use for well over a century. It ceased to be used as a bank in the 1980s.

Bank timeline
From the public records:
 * April 10, 1860 – New York State chartered Kings County Savings Bank
 * December 31, 1968 – merge with State Union Square Savings Bank, name changed to United Mutual Savings Bank
 * September 24, 1982 – merge with State American Savings Bank
 * July 29, 1983 – converted to Federal American Savings Bank, F.S.B.
 * December 29, 1989 – convert to State American Savings Bank
 * June 12, 1992 – LID Sold To Ridgewood Savings Bank
 * October 20, 1995 – liquidated

Williamsburg Art & Historical Center
Currently the building houses the Williamsburg Art & Historical Center, a not-for profit art organization founded by artist Yuko Nii in October 1996. The Center presents art exhibitions, performances and cultural events as well as lectures, seminars and educational programs of both local and international interest. It also preserves and displays historical art and artifacts.

On July 31, 2008, John B. Manbeck, the official Brooklyn Borough Historian from 1993 to 2002, said in an article in the Brooklyn Eagle:

"Art in Williamsburg has made great strides. In fact, all Williamsburg has progressed, undoubtedly because of its attraction to artists. Much of the credit must be placed on the doorstep of the director of the Williamsburg Art & Historical Center, Yuko Nii. The center operates out of the former Kings County Savings Bank Building (1867) and celebrated an infusion of a $500,000 capital funding grant from the city."

In 2009 ownership of the building was transferred to the Yuko Nii Foundation.

title: Kings County Savings Bank