text:
Talk:Western Desert campaign

Rhodesians
No mention of the Rhodesians. They were at least part of the LRDG. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.112.98.103 (talk) 11:20, 10 March 2013 (UTC)

Montgomery's Allied offensive
I've tagged this as dubious: "It's notable that he had resources far in excess in quantity and quality to those of his predecessors" The comment is often trotted out to disparage Montgomery but it's clearly incorrect. The Allies had a roughly two-to-one superiority throughout most of the Desert campaign (see Gazala, Crusader, Battleaxe for examples). Montgomery only had the same advantages; his skill was in using them wisely. Xyl 54 (talk) 14:01, 24 June 2011 (UTC)

 * At Normandy in 1944 Montgomery's invasion forces had a 25% numerical advantage over the Axis defenders, when it is usually considered necessary to outnumber the defenders by 3-to-1 (300%) to have any chance of success. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.173.56 (talk) 09:19, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

 * That's merely a rule of thumb and you have not quite stated it correctly. The point is to have a 3:1 advantage *at the point of the attack*. That can be accomplished in several ways, one of which is to thin your front line in some places in order to be stronger in other places. It does not require actual overall numerical superiority, even though that is awfully nice to have. DMorpheus2 (talk) 20:08, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Allied air superiority and naval firepower were also efficient force-multipliers in Normandy. It was the success of the landings and the first three days that led to the Germans going to ground on 9 June.Keith-264 (talk) 20:27, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

 * The 300% figure is actually for a land invasion, Montgomery did it with 25% in an amphibious one.

Map
-   - That map is flawed, Germany occuped the north and west of france, Vichy france was only in the south and not the whole country as the map seems to imply. Goldblooded (talk) 12:29, 18 August 2011 (UTC)

Source about raids/special forces
I have just read an excellent academic treament of British Special Forces in the Desert War and believe this page could benefit from a citation/reference - particularly as regards the section on 'raids'. It is: Hargreaves, Andrew L., ‘The Advent, Evolution and Value of British Specialist Formations in the Desert War, 1940-43’, in Global War Studies, Vol. 7, No.2, (2010), pp.7-62 From what I understand Dr. Hargreaves wrote a PhD on WWII Special Forces, but am not sure if he has written any books. This could be useful to other pages dealing with similar units. Best, David Trill — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.43.118.20 (talk) 07:56, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

 * Tricky; is it publicly available? Are you wanting to use it to support some statement here? If it isn’t readily accessible it can’t be verified. Does it have a lot to say about the Western Desert campaign or is it just broadly about special forces? If the former, and it is useful as background, you could always put it in the Further Reading section. Xyl 54 (talk) 13:29, 9 December 2011 (UTC)

I have also read this article and can confirm its quality. It is publicly available and can be found on the likes of ingentaconnect. As it connects special forces to the Western Desert campaign I would definitely recommend placing it in Further Reading - it is probably of much more value to those pages dealing with individual units. 92.26.170.219 (talk) 01:56, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

USAAF in intro
The sentence mentioning the USAAF build-up seems to be randomly dropped into the introductory section and an odd interjection in the summary of the strategic campaign. Perhaps it would be better placed at some point after the entry of Japan into the wider global conflict is raised, for instance in the section on Rommel's 2nd offensive? Bonza9683 03:34, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Australian withdrawal
The article states "After the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor on 7 December 1941, the Australian forces were withdrawn from the Western Desert to the Pacific theatre". While it is correct, it creates the impression that the Australians (9th Division AIF) were withdrawn soon after the Japanese entered the war. In fact they were not withdrawn until late January 1943, more than a year later, and after the Australians had made an important contribution in the El Alamein battles. Baska436 (talk) 11:28, 9 December 2012 (UTC)

 * Australian troops were retained until they could be spared without jeopardising the success of operations in North Africa. Churchill had earlier been obliged to send troops from North Africa to Greece in 1941 in an attempt at supporting Greece and this removal of troops from Egypt was one of the factors that allowed the Italians to survive in North Africa until Rommel's DAK arrived, thus throwing away an almost certain British victory, and prolonging the conflict in that theatre. Churchill didn't want that repeated. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.55.68 (talk) 11:25, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

"Western" Desert Campaign
The term is never explained: why "Western"?

My best guess is a British-centric POV: the deserts west of Egypt, but that's just pure guesswork.

What is the origin of calling this desert campaign "Western"? Where did the - I assume - corresponding "Eastern Desert Campaign" take place? CapnZapp (talk) 10:40, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

 * It's not the campaign that was Western but the Desert. The Sahara Desert west of the Nile was known as the Western Desert (or sometimes Libyan Desert) and the Sahara Desert east of the Nile was known as the Eastern Desert. The campaign was named after the desert. Stephen Kirragetalk - contribs 16:55, 9 December 2013 (UTC)
 * Thank you CapnZapp (talk) 20:58, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

 * Quite true. In addition, vast parts of the area were unsurveyed at the time, and the British found that one of the first things they had to do was to create reliable maps of the area. Indeed, up until the late 1960s the only accurate maps available of large parts of Libya, Tunisia etc., were those made by the LRDG. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.7.147.13 (talk) 20:48, 14 January 2014 (UTC)

CE
Gave the page a spring clean, shortened header titles, rm duplicate wikilinks, revised citations and references. Still needs citations for each paragraph at least.Keith-264 (talk) 09:54, 20 February 2015 (UTC)

 * Have re-edited the first sections and hope to work down the page to make it ready for a B class review. All suggestions welcome. Regards, Keith-264 (talk) 13:29, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Many thanks for this, looks great. Shire Lord 14:28, 27 February 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the encouragement. I'm not sure about the headings yet though....Keith-264 (talk) 18:24, 27 February 2015 (UTC)

Illustrations
[]I changed the pics to thumbnail to make more room and because they enlarge for people who want them to. Thumbnail is quite sufficient but I experimented with a big map to start since it's a campaign page, although it turned out to be a flop. The default for pics and maps is the right margin and I'd rather reduce the number than have a slalom.Keith-264 (talk) 00:25, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

 * If alternating right/left does not fit here then remove some images that are less needed. Maps with text should be enlarged some so they can be read.  But do whatever, I won't bother. -Fnlayson (talk) 00:40, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Oh I don't know, it looks better than it did. It seems pointless to enlarge things in the text when they enlarge for anyone who wants them to though. I suppose the long west-east distance doesn't help with scaling. RegardsKeith-264 (talk) 00:43, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * As an experiment I've added a gallery at the bottom, to avoid crowding the narrative and will remove pics if it works. Grateful for advice and opinion. RegardsKeith-264 (talk) 16:37, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Why do we think images should not be placed on the left? Putting all the images on the right is not manual of style, nor is it a visually interesting choice. Images placed in a gallery should be there to provide further visual information, but if they are descriptive of what is discussed in the narrative than my view is the body of the text is the best place for them. A gallery should be used to further illustrate what has been discussed. Images in a gallery should not be repeats of what has already been placed in the body of the article.Gunbirddriver (talk) 21:54, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * We've already established that we differ and that the default setting is right margin. The pics in the gallery are a proposed place for some of the pics in the narrative section not a definitive selection. For a hub page like this 1-2 paragraph summaries and links to the main pages are sufficient; this makes adding pictures and maps difficult since there isn't much room. I'm undecided and trying out various things not trying to dictate to anyone.Keith-264 (talk) 22:33, 1 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I carefully picked images for the Tunisian Campaign (although the article needs copyediting), but alternating left & right with maps but majority on the right margin. See what you think? Shire Lord 17:32, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * It looks like an improvement but I've only glanced at the article previously. There's a difference between what I want (nothing on the left and only thumbnails on the right) and what I can have, which is what every other editor will agree to. ;O) Keith-264 (talk) 20:34, 2 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Took out several maps, most of which I'd put in, to see how it looks.Keith-264 (talk) 20:55, 2 March 2015 (UTC)

Operation Venezia
I've put some stray articles into the campaignbox as Associated articles and wonder if Operation Venezia this should be incorporated into Battle of Gazala and the page deleted? If anyone knows of other strays pls let me know regards Keith-264 (talk) 08:45, 8 March 2015 (UTC)

Creveld
Added material from Creveld (a bit long despite pruning) to the analysis and will look for an equivalent for British supply. Will put a paragraph or two of generic description of time, distance etc into the Prelude.Keith-264 (talk) 11:42, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

 * Plodded on through the sections, to have 1–2 paragraph summaries under each heading. I'm by no means committed to the present form of the article and welcome suggestions. Eythenkew Keith-264 (talk) 17:08, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

CE
It's almost ready for a B class review despite being deficient of air power and intelligence sections.Keith-264 (talk) 15:18, 13 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Haven't done much as I'm plundering the generic sections for other articles but now I've got Creveld back can think about finishing the analysis section and putting it in for a B.Keith-264 (talk) 13:52, 21 March 2015 (UTC)

Request for opinions
User:Keith-264 and I have a disagreement over the introduction, as can be seen from the last few edits/reversions. Other opinions would be helpful. Clarityfiend (talk) 09:21, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * The two-paragraph version is probably preferable to the four-paragraph revision in my opinion as I don't really see how multiple short two-sentence non-paragraphs is grammatically correct. That said I'm Australian and among our many vices, we are notorious for our poor grammar (and poor cricket now it seems, although the English are probably equally guilty of that...). As such I'll accept maybe I don't know what I'm talking about on this one. Regardless, it seems a fairly trivial editorial matter that could no doubt be resolved by the main contributors discussing the various merits of their proposed alternatives. Anotherclown (talk) 09:57, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I'm not wedded to the wording but would prefer to discuss revisions (if necessary, word-by-word). I prefer paragraphs to roughly be the same size, rather than leaving a sentence or two dangling, which makes them look hideous. I don't consider my grammar to be superior (except to that of English English Lit graduates, obviously) but I think that a consistent style in an article is an advantage. Keith-264 (talk) 10:53, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * A paragraph is supposed to be about a single point or idea. My four paragraphs are about: (a) an overview (b) fighting pre-Rommel (c) fighting with Rommel and (d) analysis. The current two paragraphs have no such clear separation. Paragraph breaks are not meant to create uniformly sized chunks of text. (b) and (c) could be merged into one, I suppose.
 * The current version is also poorly written. E.g. "Operation Compass a British five-day raid in December 1940 led the destruction of the Italian 10th Army". Compass wasn't a five-day raid, and "led the destruction"? Clarityfiend (talk) 22:12, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * A paragraph can be about a point or idea but can also contain lists, which obviates a staccato form; I prefer it that both criteria should be considered. If there is enough material to form consistent paragraphs about a point or idea then and only then does it make sense to separate it. It shouldn't be too difficult to add material from the body of the text if your heart is set on itKeith-264 (talk) 08:44, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
 * As for why I asked for third party comments, when you get reverted wholesale twice and get called an illiterate to boot, things could have gotten heated pretty quickly. Clarityfiend (talk) 22:24, 10 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I fear you've got hurt feelings and treated my answer to your question as personal, which it wasn't and for which I apologise. You have intervened in several articles recently and appear to have overlooked the possibility that some changes you made might have been for the worse. I've concentrated on changing articles sufficient to merit a B class rating so they're works in progress and all can stand substantial improvement. I don't own anything about them except my share of our collective ambition. I'm also snowed under with work for the first time in ages, which has knackered my ability to tie up loose ends.Keith-264 (talk) 08:44, 11 July 2015 (UTC)
 * My initial cmt aside, I agree there are some issues with the current lead also - perhaps though you might propose a revised version for discussion? For instance would something along the lines of the following deal with the specific points you identified (issue of paragraph structure aside):
 * "The Western Desert Campaign or the Desert War, took place in the Western Desert of Egypt and Libya and was a theatre in the North African Campaign during the Second World War. The campaign began in September 1940, with the Italian invasion of Egypt. The Italians halted to bring up supplies and Operation Compass, a British operation in December 1940 and January 1941, led the destruction of the Italian 10th Army." Anotherclown (talk) 23:11, 10 July 2015 (UTC)

 * The Western Desert Campaign or the Desert War, took place in the Western Desert of Egypt and Libya [from 1940–1943] and was a theatre in the North African Campaign during the Second World War. The campaign began in September 1940, with Operazione E, an Italian invasion of Egypt. The Italians stopped their advance at Sidi Barrani, built fortified camps and began to construct a water pipe line and to improve the road from the frontier, to carry supplies for a further advance to Mersa Matruh. During the lull, the British conducted Operation Compass, which began as a five-day raid on the fortified camps in December 1940 and was continued into January 1941 to exploit its success, which led the destruction of the Italian 10th Army at the Battle of Beda Fomm in western Cyrenaica.Keith-264 (talk) 08:44, 11 July 2015 (UTC)

 * Right. How could I possibly take the insinuation of illiteracy as personal? That aside, I stand by my last version, with the exception of merging the two middle paragraphs and correcting my misunderstanding of the scope of Operation Compass ("The Italians halted to bring up supplies, but Operation Compass, initially a British five-day raid in December 1940, was prolonged and resulted in the destruction of the Italian 10th Army."). The current two-paragraph structure is an illogical mishmash. Clarityfiend (talk) 02:51, 15 July 2015 (UTC)

 * No it isn't, that's an insinuation which I don't take as personal.Keith-264 (talk) 09:47, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I am caught between - both versions seem fine, however I think more paragraphs are acceptable here since this is a very long campaign and article. Shire Lord (talk) 22:02, 15 July 2015 (UTC)
 * I agree that the way forward is expansion not dispersal.Keith-264 (talk) 06:57, 16 July 2015 (UTC)

"Engagement at Knightsbridge"
Lately, I have been translating (and expanding) some pages from the Italian wiki about battles involving Italian forces, such as Nibeiwa, Mechili and Bir el Gubi. One page is still left, "Scontro di Knightsbridge", part of the Battle of Gazala. I am not sure wheter to translate it or not, since I do not know if it was significant enough. Any opinions?--BaoBabbo49 (talk) 17:59, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I like what you've done, since the British sources are rather sketchy on the fighting and the 1940 articles are sadly lacking in the Italian perspective. I translated (sic) material from an Italian source (Santoro, G. (1957) [1950]. L'aeronautica italiana nella seconda guerra mondiale) that I enjoyed but it took ages to get two pages' worth. Having an Italian speaker filling in the gaps is invaluable. Keith-264 (talk) 18:08, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Operation codenames
There's something here about codenames not being italicised. Keith-264 (talk) 13:09, 8 June 2016 (UTC)

Egyptian involvement
Considering parts of the campaign were fought on Egyptian territory, did Egypt have any involvement at all? Did Egyptian troops ever fight the Axis? --Mikrobølgeovn (talk) 23:06, 24 September 2016 (UTC)

 * Good question, thanks, I think Egypt was neutral Anglo-Egyptian treaty of 1936 .Keith-264 (talk) 10:00, 25 September 2016 (UTC)

 * Egypt was a British Protectorate and while it may have tried to remain neutral that would for all practical purposes have ended with the Italian Invasion of 1940.

 * The Italian Invasion was a de facto act of war which would have invoked the obligations of the above treaty for Britain to defend Egypt. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.173.56 (talk) 08:53, 26 September 2016 (UTC)

I'm not aware of any Egyptian troops actually fighting the Axis, although I'm happy to be proven wrong. Egypt formally joined the Allies in February 1945, along with a load of other Middle Eastern and South American countries - OTOH that may have been to earn themselves a seat in the UN which was then being set up. See also the Abdeen Palace Incident of 1942 when the British Ambassador surrounded the Royal Palace with armoured cars and insisted that a more pro-British government be installed.Paulturtle (talk) 21:21, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

 * As a protectorate the Egyptian Government was responsible for Egyptian internal affairs, the British being responsible for the external defence of Egypt (hence 'protectorate'), however with a war already raging in which Britain was heavily involved, and in which the Suez Canal was of vital importance to both sides, any unfriendly action by the Egyptian Government was not likely to be tolerated, as indeed it also wasn't in Iraq in 1941. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.149.55.68 (talk) 11:10, 2 March 2019 (UTC)

Posed photo
The lead photo of the article - of British troops "advancing at Alamein" - is both well-known and well-known to be (and obviously) posed, is it not? I can't add that myself as I don't want to be hunting around for a cite which somebody will doubtless demand.Paulturtle (talk) 21:24, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

 * I thought it would be easy to find the cite that they were Oz troops attacking their cookhouse but I was wrong. You will need a cite though. ;o)) Keith-264 (talk) 21:27, 4 January 2017 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:Tunisian Campaign which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 07:59, 16 June 2019 (UTC)

Rommel and his Panzer Division
Hi,

I am just trying to correct a misapprehension here and getting some resistance. Rommel and his Panzer Division was definitely subordinate to the Italian command structure: General Bastico and CommandoSupremo. Rommel could not make any unilateral decisions on his own. They had to be approved primarily by the Italians and secondly, by the German high command (OKW) and Kesselring. He was definitely not some rogue commander able to do what he wanted. I think it is high time we stopped thinking of Rommel as this superhuman genius and see him as he really was: just one general out of a dozen generals involved in the North African campaign, including Italian generals who didn't really think that much of him, anyway, as did his own people like Kesselring. He was a competent tank commander, but certainly no genius.134.36.250.200 (talk) 13:05, 27 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Formalities can be nominal as well as actual; the ascendancy of Germany after the Italian defeats in Greece, Libya and East Africa is indisputable. You are resorting to OR rather than offering sources which take your line. Keith-264 (talk) 18:16, 27 July 2019 (UTC)

--

Keith, you are talking in generalities, while I am talking in the specific. Rommel was subordinate to Italian command, period. The sentence in question is:

The German Afrika Korps (Generalleutnant Erwin Rommel) was under nominal Italian command but Italian dependency on Nazi Germany made it the dominant partner.

Ok, let's look at this statement that by the way, has no citation to support it. In the North African theatre, the Italians were largely running the show; the German contingent was subordinate to Italian command (and not the other way round!). Do I have evidence to support it? Yes, plenty. But by the same token, do you have evidence to support the fact that it was Rommel running the show in North Africa and was the "dominant" commander there? Are we talking in general about the Germans being "dominant" or are we talking about a specific theatre of operations - the North African campaign? Can you show me evidence that Rommel was the "dominant" commander in North Africa?

It would be better sticking to the specific and delete the last part of the sentence to: "The German Africa Korps was under nominal Italian command." No "buts" required as it would give the reader the erroneous impression that Rommel was running the entire North African theatre on his own and that the entire Italian command was subordinate to him! (which would come as a great surprise to many Italian commanders like Bastico).134.36.250.200 (talk) 09:58, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

134.36.250.200 (talk) 09:49, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * Rather than go round in circles, I suggest you offer a few OR that lead you to your conclusions.Keith-264 (talk) 10:10, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

Ok, for starters, let's start with Wikipedia's own article, on Marshal Ettore Bastico. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ettore_Bastico "On 19 July 1941, Bastico was named commander over all Axis forces in North Africa. As Rommel's superior in the North African campaign, his plans had to be first approved by Bastico."

Note the phrase "ALL Axis forces" and "Rommel's superior". In addition, as Italian forces accounted for around 80% of the Axis effort in North Africa, where is the German "dominance" here? I fail to see it. Sometimes a bit of leaning back, self-reflection and using one's "common sense" is sufficient. One doesn't need to find sources to prove something which is pretty obvious.

 * Wikipedia is not a reliable source Keith-264 (talk) 14:11, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

You can say that again! No wonder universities around the world forbid their students quoting anything from Wikipedia! 134.36.250.200 (talk) 19:54, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

So the corollary to that is: "The German Afrika Korps (Generalleutnant Erwin Rommel) was under nominal Italian command but Italian dependency on Nazi Germany made it the dominant partner." is an unreliable, unsubstantiated statement, especially as it is lacking a citation. Who wrote that Nazi Germany was the dominant power in the North African theater, anyway?134.36.250.200 (talk) 20:02, 28 July 2019 (UTC)
 * "I suggest you offer a few OR" apologies, I meant RS. I suggest you offer a few RS on your view. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 08:29, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

Why a few? One should be enough. The irony of this is that I have to offer RS to remove or counter a sentence that has absolutely no RS or citation to it. The German Afrika Korps (Generalleutnant Erwin Rommel) was under nominal Italian command but Italian dependency on Nazi Germany made it the dominant partner. The first part of the sentence I can accept; it is the second part that is erroneous for two reasons: it is a general statement that does not apply to the  situation in North Africa (ie.the Italians were the dominant partner, not the Germans) and secondly, as that part is not cited and has no RS, you are asking me to counter it with a "few" reliable sources. That doesn't sound fair to me. I will offer one RS and that should be enough to counter an obviously erroneous statement that in fact, has no source. It is like having to provide 3 reliable sources just to affirm the sky is blue and not pink.134.36.250.200 (talk) 21:35, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

 * While it is true that Rommel and the DAK were nominally under Italian command the Italians were recovering from a series of defeats and had lost any initiative, hence Rommel brought a fresh mind to the task.

 * Italy wasn't 'dependant' on Germany In North Africa, most of the Axis shipping that did get through was Italian, however the Italian local leadership in the theatre - under Marshal Graziani - had pretty much proved itself unable to cope with the tactical situation - Graziani had in fact resigned his post as Italian Commander-in-Chief in North Africa in 1941 and I suspect that by the time Rommel arrived he may have simply outranked any Italian leader in the theatre.  Update: Graziani had been replaced by Italo Gariboldi, who in turn, was replaced by Ettore Bastico, who was promoted upon taking up his post so that Rommel would not outrank him. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.144.50.140 (talk) 13:14, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Hitler retiring?
In the section on the second battle of El Alamein, a sentence begins: "Having decided to retire, Hitler ordered...". I am unable to make sense of this. To my knowledge Hitler never decided to retire from the German government. Presumably something else is intended. Perhaps "retreat" rather than "retire"?Bill (talk) 03:52, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

'Rommel decided on a retirement but Hitler ordered the Panzerarmee to stand fast.' In this, retirement means retreating. Due to the losses, Rommel wanted to retreat to get the supplies his troops wanted. But Hitler ordered to either win the battle, or die inflicting damage on the British. ShauryaOMG (talk) 06:52, 27 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Retire is a synonym of withdraw or retreat, it means a retreat not necessarily forced on an army by the opponent. Keith-264 (talk) 09:31, 27 January 2021 (UTC)

Recent edits
Dear WD you've been warned about this behaviour lots of times, it's all over your talk page. Pls you'll save all of us a lot of time and wasted energy. I suggest you put your preferred edit here and then we can discuss it. Keith-264 (talk) 20:05, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * You have seen my preferred edits. As usual, I am merely trying to correct the blatant pro-British bias in these articles, and make the articles more accurate and more neutral. I still don't understand why you persist in your POV-pushing.
 * I initially trimmed all extraneous detail because you had expressed a concern about length. It is now apparent that that was merely a ruse.
 * I object to the inclusion in para 2 of the phrase "failed to destroy their opponents". There were many occasions where the British squeaked out a minor victory but failed by miles to destroy their opponents - why does the British humiliation of the Gazala Gallop merit this apologetic?
 * The Eighth Army had more Commonwealth troops than British - but yet you persist in trying to create the impression that this was purely a "British" victory - why not be more accurate and honest?
 * You make a big deal of the fact that the British sent some of their resources to Greece etc, but you refuse to admit that the survivors of that debacle returned to Africa - as did some divisions that were rotated to Syria. Yet you make a big deal of the fact that Axis reinforcements did arrive. Why not be more accurate and honest?
 * About 75% of the troops in the Torch landings were American - why not be more accurate and honest?
 * In short, while you have made it abundantly clear that you are Montgomery's biggest fan and apologist, why are you such a POV-pusher?
 * Wdford (talk) 20:38, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The lead is not the place to argue about history, it is a short description of the contents of the article. This is an article about the Desert War, it is B class not A so it has flaws and omissions but the wars in East Africa, Greece, Syria, Iraq British-US invasion of the Vichy colonies to the west are footnotes to this story. If you want to write a book with your version of history go ahead but this is not the place for yet another contest. I would like you to save your energy for something constructive. Keith-264 (talk) 20:46, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

 * So let's fix the flaws and omissions, eliminate ALL footnotes from the lead, and have an accurate and honest lead section? Wdford (talk) 20:49, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The lead reflects the article; if you can improve what's already there the changes can be reflected in the lead as per Manual of Style/Lead section.

"The lead section (also known as the lead or introduction) of a Wikipedia article is the section before the table of contents and the first heading. The lead serves as an introduction to the article and a summary of its most important contents. It is not a news-style lead or "lede" paragraph."

Trying to argue about inferred ulterior motives in other editors is pointless but I remind you again that you've been here before. Why don't you try a different approach this time? Look at Noclador's recent edits, they're rooted in literary sources and have greatly improved the articles he(?)'s worked on. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 21:18, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

 * It's interesting how you hide behind wikirules when it suits your POV, but you blatantly disregard wikirules when that suits you better. So you are now saying that if you have been able to get away with a biased and non-neutral article so far, the lead is now LEGALLY REQUIRED to also be biased and non-neutral? Actually, my edits better reflect the body of the article than do yours. The current lead also leaves out quite a lot, so a big revision is necessary to ensure that the lead properly summaries the main points of the body of the article.Wdford (talk) 21:59, 27 November 2019 (UTC)
 * I'm not arguing anything, I'm describing, there's a difference. Tamper with the lead and you will be reverted by editors. Improve the article and you won't. Please stop wasting everyone's time by altering leads without bothering to improve an article with descriptions from Reliable Sources on the subject. Keith-264 (talk) 22:45, 27 November 2019 (UTC)

 * "The Eighth Army had more Commonwealth troops than British - but yet you persist in trying to create the impression that this was purely a "British" victory" - at the time, all these 'Commonwealth troops' were British subjects, most Commonwealth nations didn't get their own citizenships until post-1945. Hence "British". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.144.50.140 (talk) 10:44, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

If you look at the unit titles from the time, British units weren't called British... Non-British units were distinguished by a national title like Indian, Australian, New Zealand...British was used as a shorthand term to distinguish between British (i.e. British, Indian and Commonwealth) and Axis armies/units [and still is in the literature]. When the Allied contribution increased, Allied was substituted for British. As for Monty, he arrived in the Desert on 13 August 1942 so I find it hard to understand why I'm pro-Monty when he was there for about ten months of a three-year campaign. If anything, I've tried to put Italy back into the war, not take the Axis out. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 12:38, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

 * The generals of Australia, South African and New Zealand all had standing instructions from their "home governments" to refuse orders from British commanders if they felt their troops were being used as cannon fodder, and they all made use of that protection wherever they felt it necessary. The "Commonwealth" governments stood up to Churchill on these matters, and Churchill always gave way - probably because the Eighth Army would not have existed without the Commonwealth divisions. Many individuals living in Commonwealth countries enlisted in British Army units (and navy and air-force too), but Commonwealth divisions did not consider themselves British, and never acted as though they were British. The Indian troops, on the other hand, were basically stuffed.
 * I am very happy to put Italy's contribution into a proper light. It would also be nice if the contributions of other countries were also put into their proper light in the lead, rather than being appropriated as "British". However I disagree with doctoring the lead to buff up the British performance, as well as making it look like Monty won the desert war while downplaying the huge contributions from the "Torch" forces - which were themselves only half British. Slight changes in wording would solve the problem, but you persist - so its become hard to AGF. Wdford (talk) 13:04, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Make a list of the occasions when Dominion commanders appealed to their governments. As out colleague points out, Dominions were not sovereign states but hybrids. All swore allegiance to the King, used the £ and carried British passports. Your claims are vacuous, the Dominions were at war with the Axis, not the British empire. Keith-264 (talk) 13:12, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
 * The lede is supposed to be a brief summary about the Western Desert campaign. The last paragraph now delves into too much detail and analysis that should be fit for the Aftermath section. I therefore think the last paragraph should be deleted altogether and perhaps mention Op Torch and siege of Malta in second paragraph? Eastfarthingan (talk) 13:30, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

OKKeith-264 (talk) 13:35, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

 * Off the top of my head, after Singapore Australian general Blamey wanted the Australian troops rotated out of besieged Tobruk, and the Australian government forced Churchill to order the rotation over the objections of Auchinleck. After Greece and Crete Freyberg refused the British plan to defend Mesa Matruh, with government support, and when he was left stranded he abandoned the position on his own initiative. Jan Smuts was Churchill's greatest supporter, but after the loss of a South African brigade in Crusader, Pienaar objected to every order that seemed stupid to him, and there was nothing the British could do to him. See specifically

 * Agree with Eastfarthingan, except that Rommel's supply constraints were central to the campaign - with a bit more fuel the result would have been different. This sentence should remain. For a complete summary, we should also mention Brevity, Battleaxe etc. Wdford (talk) 13:49, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Yes that is why siege of Malta should be mentioned as it constrained Rommel's supply situation. Malta was they key to winning in North Africa IMHO. We can play it by here. Eastfarthingan (talk) 13:58, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

Not Rommel, The Axis'. Have you made a list of the times when Dominion commanders appealed to their Dominion government? Keith-264 (talk) 14:08, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

 * @ Eastfarthingan: Agreed. Malta was also a side-show to the Germans, as Mussolini wanted to annex it but Hitler was focused on the USSR. One extra division in Africa would have swung everything, but Hitler couldn't be bothered – Russia was more important to him than Suez. I propose that para 2 & 3 be reworded as follows:
 * In the spring of 1941, Rommel led Operation Sonnenblume which pushed the British back to Egypt except for the Siege of Tobruk at the port. The Allied forces were defeated in Operation Brevity and Operation Battleaxe, but the Axis forces were defeated in Operation Crusader and retired again to El Agheila in good order, then rebounded to Gazala. In 1942 Axis forces drove the British back again in the Battle of Gazala and captured Tobruk, but failed to destroy their routed opponents. The Axis invaded Egypt and the Allies retreated to El Alamein, where at the Battle of El Alamein the Eighth Army held then defeated the Axis forces. While the Battle of El Alamein was still in progress, an Anglo-American force landed in Morocco and Algeria (Operation Torch), threatening the Axis armies in North Africa from the west. Under attack from east and west in the Tunisian campaign, the Axis forces surrendered in Tunisia on 13 May 1943.
 * The Axis never overcame the supply constraints limiting the size of their land and air forces in North Africa, and the desert war became a sideshow for Germany when the invasion of the Soviet Union began on 22 June 1941. Although both sides received supplies and reinforcements, Axis supplies were constantly throttled by Allied forces in Malta, while US supplies, equipment and personnel arrived for the Eighth Army in increasing amounts.
 * What do you think?
 * @ Keith-264: Did you read the reference I provided, which inter alia clearly states: "An option always available to the Commonwealth generals who were not answerable to the British government"?
 * Wdford (talk) 15:26, 28 November 2019 (UTC)
 * Keith looks good to me. Eastfarthingan (talk) 16:17, 28 November 2019 (UTC)

In the spring of 1941, Rommel led Operation Sonnenblume, which pushed the British back to Egypt except for the Siege of Tobruk at the port. The British were defeated in Operation Brevity and Operation Battleaxe, then the Axis forces were defeated in Operation Crusader and retreated again to El Agheila. An Axis reconnaissance in force in January 1942 drove back the British back to Gazala between Derna and Tobruk. The Axis attacked again and in the Battle of Gazala defeated the British, captured Tobruk then invaded Egypt, pursuing the British as far as El Alamein. Over three battles, the Eighth Army held, then defeated the Axis forces. During the Second Battle of Alamein in October, Operation Torch, an Anglo-American landing in Morocco and Algeria began, threatening the Axis armies in North Africa from the west. In the Tunisian campaign, the Axis forces were forced to surrender on 13 May 1943.

The Axis never overcame supply constraints limiting the size of their forces in North Africa and the Desert War became a sideshow for Germany after the invasion of the Soviet Union in June 1941. The delivery of Axis supplies was threatened by British forces in Malta and supplies to the British from the empire and the US, despite the long detour around Africa, began to arrive in increasing quantity and quality in late 1942.

 * Almost there. How about:
 * In the spring of 1941, Rommel led Operation Sonnenblume, which pushed the Allies back to Egypt except for the Siege of Tobruk at the port. The Allied forces were defeated in Operation Brevity and Operation Battleaxe, then the Axis forces were defeated in Operation Crusader and retreated again to El Agheila. An Axis reconnaissance in force in January 1942 drove the Allies back to Gazala, between Derna and Tobruk. The Axis attacked again in the Battle of Gazala and defeated the Allies, captured Tobruk and then invaded Egypt. They pursued the Allies as far as El Alamein, where the Axis forces were eventually defeated by the Eighth Army in the Second Battle of Alamein in October-November. Operation Torch, an Anglo-American landing in Morocco and Algeria, began during the Second Battle of Alamein, and threatened the Axis armies in North Africa from the west. Under attack from east and west in the Tunisian campaign, the Axis forces were forced to surrender on 13 May 1943.
 * The Axis never overcame supply constraints limiting the size of their forces in North Africa, and the Desert War became a sideshow for Germany after the invasion of the Soviet Union began in June 1941. The delivery of Axis supplies was threatened by Allied forces in Malta. On the other hand supplies to the Allies from the British Empire and the USA, despite the long detour around Africa to the Suez Canal, continued to arrive in increasing quantity and quality through 1942.
 * Wdford (talk) 14:20, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

 * Actually, to support Rommel and the Afrika Korps Hitler personally ordered the transfer of most of the Luftwaffe's transport aeroplanes and almost the entire bomber force from the Russian Front to North Africa so presumably Hitler himself thought the African theatre of some importance.

 * It was there in North Africa that the Luftwaffe's transport force was effectively wiped out, leaving Germany with little or nothing in the way of air transport or bombing force for use in the East.

 * You see, the campaign in North Africa forced Nazi Germany to fight a two-front war, exactly what Hitler's generals had warned him against attempting. Forcing Hitler to do this is called strategy.

 * BTW, 'Allies' that impose on an 'Allied' Army all sorts of limitations and restrictions as stated above on their troops use make these troops generally not worth having, so presumably once the immediate need was over the Imperial General Staff would have been glad to be rid of them. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.148.8.159 (talk) 11:31, 15 July 2020 (UTC)

Changing caption of new main article Image
Hi this is a notice that I will be changing the caption of the New main article image that was put in by Tobby 72.This is because the caption for the new image says Australian infantry advancing at El Alemein (forgive me if I spell this wrong) despite the fact that the caption for the same image on wiki commons and the Imperial War museum where the image originally came from says the infantry are British not Australian. For the sake of historical accuracy I will correct the main article image caption for the western desert campaign to British infantry advancing as that is what the image source (Imperial War museum) says the image actually is. Tobby 72 if you wish to challenge my decision post here and I will try and get back to you Anonymous contributor 1707 (talk) 17:19, 3 November 2020 (UTC)

Operation "Buckshot"
Removed this red link. Some operations that never came to be are clearly notable and with plenty of reliable sources - for instance Operation Sealion would easily qualify as a red link - it would link to a very plausible article (and indeed one has existed for a long time already). But Buckshot? Highly doubtful. Since I cannot find any online sources discussing this operation, I removed the red link per WP:REDDEAL: "If the red link points to a target you feel reasonably certain would be deleted if an article were created, remove the red link."

Now I'm putting the onus on anyone believing there is reason to believe Operation Buckshot could sustain an article about a notable, sourced topic. But really, my advice would be to create the page Operation Buckshot as a redirect here - specifically, to Western Desert campaign. I find it highly likely this section is the only place that Op will ever be discussed, let alone even mentioned. If you do, I've unlinked the red link for you already (the link would be a circular reference). You're welcome, CapnZapp (talk) 15:15, 13 January 2021 (UTC)

 * I see a number of mentions on gbooks, but none of them look particularly substantial in snippet view. I've created the redirect; I'm not quite sure why you didn't do that yourself.  Best, Wham2001 (talk) 07:05, 14 January 2021 (UTC)

Recent edits
If you want to copy-edit words you need to check if applies, which means BritEng not AmEng. The % sign isn't used in prose, per cent is used instead (percent in AmEng). Wiki requires only one wikilink per word, phrase or title so if you want to add one e.g. for the 7th Armoured Division, you need to check to see if it has already been linked. There's a shortcut for this importScript('User:jEvad37/duplinks-alt.js'); which goes in a separate user page (see here User:Keith-264/common.js). You shouldn't break paragraphs but if you do you can't leave them un-cited, duplicate the cite instead. If you alter a header, you can't duplicate another header. Stylistic consistency is important and that is why I reverted all your mad commas (those next to conjunctions) which were inconsistent with the style of the article. New editors often meet these pitfalls so I wouldn't worry; I hope this will save you more wasted effort. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 14:12, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

 * Hi Kevin, I had noted the British spellings and did not deliberately change any, but then I wasn’t aware that percent signs were considered American. I am Canadian, incidentally, and generally use whatever spelling come to mind in my mad Canadian moments of whimsy. Joke? Let me see what else I upset you with here. I have no particular issue with either English English only, or American English only in any given article, though I personally express my OCD in other ways than that, such as MOS edits to headers. Did I just duplicate one, apparently? As for units, yes, I like to link them, especially when all of the combatants call their units a “corps” with a Roman number. I do try not to overlink, but our definition of that may vary. Where an article covers many many combatants, dozens of operations and gazillions of battalions and regiments I usually take this to mean no more than once in a few thousand words vs no more than once an article, and I don’t count the infobox. If you insist on one WL per article then I will make an effort,since you were kind enough to provide a tool, but I do think that in that case some detail needs to move out to the spinoff articles.

 * Is this the article with all that weird no/break coding? Do you realize that it makes the article look like haiku on mobile devices?

 * I have never heard of that rule about citing both parts of a paragraph if you break one up, but I am not necessarily opposed to this. Is it some sort of milhist convention? Anyway, I will look at the edits you so rudely reverted, and probably won’t care enough about them to argue. In my own mind, incidentally, I was surveying the context for the French campaigns I need to weave in, and improving the readability of some rather impenetrable and definitely over-long and overly detailed narration along the way. I have more urgent fish to fry that the structure there, if the light just does not want to change or let me change it either.

 * Seriously though, I will re-read your demands polite requests before I start back in on where to weave in the Free French and all that. I do need to work on North Africa in World War II, but I’ll do my best to be consistently British when I do. I do appreciate the tool suggestion, I may even leave my annoying Yankee persona at home next time, out of sheer gratitude. Mad commas to you ;) Elinruby (talk) 14:56, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

OCD twinge
I have questions. I will group them here if that works for everyone.
 * , what is your objection to left-justifying photo captions? The centered text hurts me to the depths of my soul. Very very 1999. I would also prefer not to center photos with a portrait orientation, but the nature of the text is wrong for that. Leaving it, pending your response. Elinruby (talk) 15:27, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 1) ”small” ports - isn’t there a better way to phrase this? Seems wrong somehow. For example (serious question) is the issue the number of slips, ie it can only handle so many ships? Or is this saying that the harbor isn’t deep enough?
 * 2) ”supply distance” - I do understand that this refers to the length of the supply line. See above, though, seems wrong.
 * 3) nowrap - why. What problem does this solve for you? Elinruby (talk) 15:48, 12 February 2021 (UTC)
 * 4) 1943:“The 2nd New Zealand Division and the 7th Armoured Division swung inland via Tarhuna, with *its* supply dependent on the Royal Army Service Corps (RASC) and the New Zealand Army Service Corps.” Was Tarhuna dependent, or should the bolded *its* instead read *their*? (BTW, I see you comment about cut and paste, and I hear you. These are genuine questions however; my WW2 work so far has mostly been in French, and I otherwise don’t really have this vocabulary in any kind of English. Consider that one a note to myself of others. Will investigate at some point. Supply lines were not really an issue for the French, at least in France. Something else to investigate. Anyway, getting tired, going to work on this from the other end.)
 * Here's an example of an image with a centred caption,

.

In general if the content of the photo faces right it should be left-justified and if it faces left, right-justified. When you copy-edited them, you put left into the centring formula. Since images go to the right margin unless you specify left or centre, you should have done it like this,

so that the left-justifying term would look like this  |thumb|left|{{centre|  (bolded for emphasis), which I would have reverted under the image content convention. Regards Keith-264 (talk) 15:54, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

 * Nomenclature; if you read the article and wonder about some of the words, any of the page watchers would be interested in discussing them. Since I cut 'n' pasted much of this from the detailed articles on the campaign there is plenty of room for improvement. Would you like to discuss them one at a time? Regards Keith-264 (talk) 16:00, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

 * at some point would appreciate a cite for your image content convention, but ok, for now that’s an answer. FYI as I had it the image was centered with the caption left justified. Probably browser-dependent, Elinruby (talk) 16:01, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

 * 'Tis here. Keith-264 (talk)

{{od}} Why do you want to add material about the Free/Fighting French? Keith-264 (talk) 18:16, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Operation Compass
The intro is pure non-sense. Trying to correct it but Keith-264, (talk), you keep re-adding this incorrect information. Why? It literally makes zero sense.

Operation Compass lasted for two months (9 december 1940-9 february 1941), not 5 days. The thing is that it was originally planned as a raid but was extended into a large counter-offensive because of its success. The British were still on Egypt on December 14 (Sollum was recaptured on December 16). At best you can say that the initial phase of Compass was a 5-days-raid in Egypt, then it became a general two-months-advance into Libya.

This sentence is the key problem here:

Operation Compass, a five-day raid by the British was so successful that it led to the destruction of the Italian 10th Army (10ª Armata).

Compass begun on December 9, the 10th army was destroyed at the Battle of Beda Fomm on February 7.

If you look at the page of Operation Compass, it correctly says that Compass lasted up to February.

So you are effectively writing that there are 5 days between December 9 and February 9. Like, what?

Barjimoa (talk) 10:07, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * You are not relating your edits to RS but making fatuous edits, no RS put it your way so I suggest you have a look at them. Keith-264 (talk) 11:46, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

 * I have no intention to make fatuous edits. I'm just stating what i get from this article. All the sources used for this article and for the one on Operation Compass put it my way: it was supposed to be a raid of a few days; but it lasted for two months from 9 December 1940 to 9 February 1941, which marked the end of Operation Compass with the destruction of the 10th army. By saying that Operation compass was a 5-days-raid that brought about the destruction of the 10th army, this intro basically says there are 5 days bewteen December 9 and February 9. That is the big problem here.Barjimoa (talk) 12:54, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

 * Wiki isn't a source. Keith-264 (talk) 14:22, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

 * I never said that. I'm talking about the sources currently used in Wikipedia as bibliography. They all say Compass lasted from December 1940 to February 1941. There are book chapters mentioned in a book on Wavell literally titled "Compass, December 1940-February 1941" (https://books.google.com/books?id=Bob1Oq72K-EC&pg=PA96&dq=Compass+december+to+february&hl=it&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&source=gb_mobile_search&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjS96GCutj6AhXLsKQKHRiQBRcQ6AF6BAgMEAM#v=onepage&q=Compass%20december%20to%20february&f=false). And let's use the timeline of Britannica for the destruction of the Italian 10th army: Marsa Matruh captured on December 9, Sollum on December 16, Bardia on January 3, Tobruk on January 25, Benghazi on February 6, and Agheila on February 8. At this point Compass came to an end, Italian and German reinforcements arrived to defend Tripolitania, British reinforcements were sent to Greece. The key fact here is this: one thing is what Compass was orinally planned to be, another thing is what it actually ended up being.Barjimoa (talk) 15:19, 11 October 2022 (UTC)
 * You are conflating two things, see what the RS in the bibliography say about the raid. Keith-264 (talk) 17:55, 11 October 2022 (UTC)

CE
Removed about 20 dupe w/l. Keith-264 (talk) 23:31, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Western Desert campaign


text:
Active Fuel Management

Active Fuel Management (formerly known as displacement on demand (DoD)) is a trademarked name for the automobile variable displacement technology from General Motors. It allows a V6 or V8 engine to "turn off" half of the cylinders under light-load conditions to improve fuel economy. Estimated performance on EPA tests shows a 5.5–7.5% improvement in fuel economy.

GM's Active Fuel Management technology used a solenoid to deactivate the lifters on selected cylinders of a pushrod V-layout engine.

GM used the Active Fuel Management technology on a range of engines including with the GM Small Block Gen IV engine family, first-generation GM EcoTec3 engine family, second-generation GM High-Feature V6 DOHC engine family, and first-generation High-Feature V8 DOHC engine family. Vehicle applications included the 2005 Chevy TrailBlazer EXT, the GMC Envoy XL, Envoy XUV, and Pontiac Grand Prix.

Displacement on demand
General Motors was the first to modify existing production engines to enable cylinder deactivation, with the introduction of the Cadillac L62 "V8-6-4" in 1981.

Second generation
In 2004, the electronics side was improved greatly with the introductions of Electronic Throttle Control, electronically controlled transmissions, and transient engine and transmission controls. In addition, computing power was vastly increased. A solenoid control valve assembly integrated into the engine valley cover contains solenoid valves that provide a pressurized oil signal to specially designed hydraulic roller lifters provided by Eaton Corp. and Delphi. These lifters disable and re-enable exhaust and intake valve operation to deactivate and reactivate engine cylinders. Unlike the first generation system, only half of the cylinders can be deactivated. It is notable that the second generation system uses engine oil to hydraulically modulate engine valve function. As a result, the system is dependent upon the quality of the oil in the engine. As anti-foaming agents in engine oil are depleted, air may become entrained or dissolve in the oil, delaying the timing of hydraulic control signals. Similarly engine oil viscosity and cleanliness is a factor. Use of the incorrect oil type, i.e. SAE 10W40 instead of SAE 5W30, or the failure to change the engine oil or oil filter at factory recommended intervals, can also significantly impair system performance.

In 2001, GM showcased the 2002 Cadillac Cien concept car, which featured Northstar XV12 engine with Displacement on Demand. Later that year, GM debuted Opel Signum² concept car in Frankfurt Auto Show, which uses the global XV8 engine with displacement on demand. In 2003, GM unveiled the Cadillac Sixteen concept car at the Detroit Opera House, which featured an XV16 concept engine that can switch between 4, 8, and 16 cylinders.

On April 8, 2003, General Motors announced this technology (now called Active Fuel Management) to be commercially available on 2005 GMC Envoy XL, Envoy XUV and Chevrolet TrailBlazer EXT using optional Vortec 5300 V8 engine. GM also extended the technology on the new High Value LZ8 V6 engine in the Chevrolet Impala and Monte Carlo as well as the 5.3L V8 LS4 engine in the last generation Chevrolet Impala SS, Monte Carlo SS and Pontiac Grand Prix GXP. In both designs, half of the cylinders can be switched off under light loads.

On July 21, 2008, General Motors unveiled the production version of the 2010 Chevrolet Camaro. The Camaro SS with an automatic transmission features the GM L99 engine, a development of the LS3 with Active Fuel Management which allowed it to run on four cylinders during light load conditions.

Third generation
In January 2018, GM announced an improved version of AFM called Dynamic Fuel Management to be initially released in Chevy Silverado trucks. This system shuts off any number of cylinders in a variety of combinations, maximizing fuel economy and avoiding switching between banks of cylinders. The system is based on Dynamic Skip Fire, a technology developed by California company Tula Technology. The 6.2L V8 engine of the Chevrolet Silverado incorporating the technology was named one of Ward's 10 Best Engines for 2019.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Active Fuel Management


text:
Itaquaquecetuba

Itaquaquecetuba, also simply called Itaquá, is a municipality in the state of São Paulo, Brazil. It is part of the Metropolitan Region of São Paulo. The population is 375,011 (2020 est.) in an area of 82.62 km2. It sits at an elevation of 790 m.

The municipality was founded between 1560 and 1563 by Jesuits led by Father Joseph of Anchieta, among native villages near the Tietê River, beginning with the Catholic chapel of Our Lady of Acute, which was established by Father Joseph. The settlement saw little development, and was almost deserted by the early twentieth century. Until 1958 the city was a district of Mogi das Cruzes. Following the emancipation of the municipality that year, the first Mayor, Victorio Eugenio Deliberato, began a campaign of industrial development that had great geographic and economic impact on Itaquaquecetuba in the decades to come.

Today, Itaquaquecetuba is one of the 10 best Brazilian cities who had significant advances in challenges against inequality in the last 20 years, and has the second-best GDP in the region.

History
The origin of the city dates back to Itaquaquecetuba of the twelve villages founded by the Jesuit priest José de Anchieta, in his long stay in Brazil. Its creation is due to the then president of the province, Bernardo José Pinto Gavião Peixoto, named village of Nossa Senhora da Ajuda, on September 7, 1560, being established in the River Tietê, to catechize the guaianases.

Law and Government
Itaquaquecetuba's City Hall is located at 267 Vereador José Fernandes da Silva Avenue.

Etymology
The name is derived from its first form in Tupi takwakisé-tube, whose full meaning is "place of abundant bamboo sharp as knives".

Public Transportation
The city is served by Line 12 of CPTM (Companhia Paulista de Trens Metropolitanos). The commuter rail system has 3 train stations: Engenheiro Manoel, Aracaré and Itaquaquecetuba. Local bus service is provided by Expresso Planalto and Intercity buses are also available connecting the city to Poá, Mogi das Cruzes, Guarulhos, Arujá, Santa Isabel, Ferraz de Vasconcelos, Suzano and São Paulo. Many bus companies operate such routes under permission of EMTU - Empresa Metropolitana de Transportes Urbanos de São Paulo, a state-owned company.

Roads
Itaquaquecetuba is crossed by four highways:
 * SP-56 Alberto Hinoto Highway
 * SP-66 João Afonso de Souza Castellano Highway
 * SP-70 Ayrton Senna Highway
 * SP-21 Mário Covas Beltway

Climate
The climate of the city, and across the Metropolitan Region of São Paulo, is Subtropical. Summer is largely slightly hot and rainy.

Colleges and universities

 * University of Guarulhos
 * Technical School of Itaquaquecetuba - ETEC
 * State Technological College of Itaquaquecetuba - FATEC
 * Federal Institute of Education, Science and Technology of São Paulo - IFSP

Media
In telecommunications, the city was served by Companhia Telefônica da Borda do Campo. In July 1998, this company was acquired by Telefónica, which adopted the Vivo brand in 2012. The company is currently an operator of cell phones, fixed lines, internet (fiber optics/4G) and television (satellite and cable).

Notable people

 * Cafu, former Football player
 * Bento Hinoto, Mamonas Assassinas's guitarist

title: Itaquaquecetuba


text: User talk:66.30.24.44

title: User talk:66.30.24.44


text:
User:Matthewstoller

Matt writes for http://www.bopnews.com.

title: User:Matthewstoller


text:
User talk:Walt1616

Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia! I've left a comment at Talk:Key Bible Verses. — Matt 15:48, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hi again. Please do not blank talk pages; they are useful records of discussions about articles, and it's customary to leave them even when they're outdated, and eventually archive them. Thanks. — Matt 17:33, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Hi once more; at Key Bible Verses I've reinstanted the link to Bible verses and changed the markup back to ''' style — this is the preferred Wikipedia markup style. I'd also encourage you to fill in edit summaries or otherwise communicate (perhaps using the Talk: page) when reversing someone else's changes. It is good etiquette because it helps editors when they are collaborating; if you reverse someone's change and don't tell them why, collaboration has broken down (and it's also considered quite rude — people are likely to get quite huffy!) Happy editing! — Matt 22:23, 8 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Walt1616


text:
Itararé

Itararé is a municipality in the state of São Paulo in Brazil. The population is 50,642 (2020 est.) in an area of 1004 km². Its elevation is of 740 m. This place's name comes from the Tupi language, and means "stone that the river has dug" because the Itararé River runs partly underground. Itararé became an independent municipality in 1893, when it was separated from Itapeva da Faxina.

Media
In telecommunications, the city was served by Companhia de Telecomunicações do Estado de São Paulo until 1975, when it began to be served by Telecomunicações de São Paulo. In July 1998, this company was acquired by Telefónica, which adopted the Vivo brand in 2012.

The company is currently an operator of cell phones, fixed lines, internet (fiber optics/4G) and television (satellite and cable).

title: Itararé


text:
Itariri

Itariri is a municipality in the state of São Paulo in Brazil. The population is 17,598 (2020 est.) in an area of 273.67 km². The elevation is 55 m. Itariri is situated on the BR-101 highway, 18 km west of the coastal city Peruíbe.

History
The municipality was created by state law in 1948.

Geography
The municipality contains a small part of the 84,425 ha Juréia-Itatins Ecological Station, a strictly protected area of well-preserved Atlantic Forest created in 1986.

Media
In telecommunications, the city was served by Companhia de Telecomunicações do Estado de São Paulo until 1975, when it began to be served by Telecomunicações de São Paulo. In July 1998, this company was acquired by Telefónica, which adopted the Vivo brand in 2012.

The company is currently an operator of cell phones, fixed lines, internet (fiber optics/4G) and television (satellite and cable).

title: Itariri


text:
Pantelleria

Pantelleria (Sicilian: Pantiḍḍirìa; ), known in ancient times as Cossyra or Cossura, is an Italian island and comune in the Strait of Sicily in the Mediterranean Sea, 106 km southwest of Sicily and 68 km east of the Tunisian coast. On clear days Tunisia is visible from the island. Administratively Pantelleria's comune belongs to the Sicilian province of Trapani.

According to the Italian National Institute of Statistics, the population of Pantelleria was 7,335 in 2022.

Description
With an area of 83 km2, Pantelleria is the largest volcanic satellite island of Sicily. The last eruption occurred below sea level in 1891, and today phenomena related to volcanic activity are present, such as hot springs and fumaroles. The highest peak, the Montagna Grande, reaches 836 m above sea level. The islanders speak Pantesco, a dialect of Sicilian influenced by Arabic.

Specchio di Venere lake is a soda lake.

Names

The Carthaginians knew the island as  or  (𐤀𐤉𐤓𐤍𐤌).

The Greek geographers recorded it as Kossyra (Κόσσυρα) and Kossyros (Κόσσυρος), which became the Latin Cossura. This appears in Arabic as Qawṣirah (قوصرة) and Maltese as the former name Qawsra.

The original Arab name for the island was Bint al-Riyāḥ (Arabic: بنت الرياح and Maltese: Bint l-Irjieħ), meaning "Daughter of the Winds" after the strong gales that can arise off the north coast of Africa.

Its Sicilian name is Pantiddirìa, which gave rise to the present Maltese name Pantellerija.

History
The earliest evidence of human activity dates to the Neolithic period distinguished for its use of obsidian tools and construction of stone structures and tombs known locally as "Sese". The original population of Pantelleria did not come from Sicily, but were of Iberian or Ibero-Ligurian ancestry. After a considerable interval, during which the island probably remained uninhabited, the Carthaginians took possession of it, no doubt owing to its importance as a station on the way to Sicily. This probably occurred around the beginning of the 7th centuryBC. Their acropolis was the twin hill of San Marco and Santa Teresa, 2 km south of the present town of Pantelleria. The town has considerable remains of walls made of rectangular blocks of masonry and also of a number of cisterns. Punic tombs have been discovered, and the votive terra-cottas of a small sanctuary of the Punic period were found near the north coast.

The Romans occupied the island as the Fasti Triumphales record in 255BC, lost it again the next year, and recovered it in 217BC. It struck bronze coins, originally with a Punic inscription but changing to Latin by the 1st centuryBC. Under the empire, it served as a place of banishment for prominent persons and members of the imperial family. The town enjoyed municipal rights.

In AD700, Arabs conquered the island. In 1123, Roger II of Sicily took the island, and in 1311 an Aragonese fleet under the command of Lluís de Requesens won a considerable victory here. Requesens's family became princes of Pantelleria until 1553, when a Turkish fleet commanded by Dragut sacked the island. A naval battle took place near the island in July 1586 when an armed English merchant fleet of five ships managed to repel an attack by eleven Spanish and Maltese galleys.

A Siculo-Arabic dialect similar to Maltese was the vernacular of the island until the late 18th century, when the Romance Sicilian superseded it. The modern Sicilian language in Pantelleria contains many Arabic loanwords, and most of the island's place names are of Semitic origin.

During the Napoleonic Wars, the British considered the possibility of taking over Pantelleria (together with Lampedusa and Linosa) so as to be able to supply Malta, but a royal commission stated in an 1812 report that there would be considerable difficulties in this venture.

Pantelleria's capture was regarded as crucial to Operation Husky, the Allied invasion of Sicily in 1943 as planes based on Pantelleria could readily reach Sicily. In Operation Corkscrew the Allies bombarded Pantelleria heavily from air and sea in the days before the invasion. The garrison surrendered as the landing troops approached. Pantelleria then became a vital base for Allied aircraft during the assault on Sicily.

Archaeological sites
A Middle Bronze Age village was on the west coast, 3 km southeast of the harbour, with a rampart of small blocks of lava, about 7.5 m high, 10 m wide at the base and 5 m at the top, upon the undefended eastern side. Remains of huts were found there, with pottery, tools of obsidian, and other artifacts. These objects are in the museum at Syracuse.

To the southeast, in the district known as the Cunelie, are many tombs, known as sesi. They are similar in character to the nuraghe of Sardinia, though of smaller size, and consist of round or elliptical towers with sepulchral chambers in them, built of rough blocks of lava. Fifty-seven of them can still be traced. The largest is an ellipse of about 18 x, but most of the sesi have a diameter of only 6 - 7 m. The identical character of the pottery found in the sesi with that found in the prehistoric village proves that the former are the tombs of the inhabitants of the latter.

Monuments and other buildings
The island has scattered typical one-level buildings called dammuso of unknown but probably remote origins. A dammuso is a dry stone building with thick walls that usually appear black due to the extensive use of volcanic rock. They have characteristic domes on top painted white to avoid overheating. The domes collect rainwater that is directed to a large tank (usually below the building) or to the nearby soil for use in the dry season.

Most of the other constructions were destroyed during the Second World War. One notable exception is the castle Barbacane, a renaissance building formed by an irregularly quadrangular plan with internal court joined to a squared base tower.

Geology
The island of Pantelleria is located above a drowned continental rift in the Strait of Sicily and has been the focus of intensive volcano-tectonic activity. The 15 kilometre-long (15 km) island is the emergent summit of a largely submarine edifice. Two large Pleistocene calderas dominate the island, the older of the two formed about 114,000 years ago and the younger Cinque Denti caldera formed about 45,000 years ago. The eruption that formed the Cinque Denti caldera produced the distinctive green tuff deposit that covers much of the island, and is found across the Mediterranean, as far away as the island of Lesbos in the Aegean Sea. Holocene eruptions have constructed pumice cones, lava domes, and short, blocky lava flows.

Later activity constructed the cone of Monte Gibele, part of which was subsequently uplifted to form Montagna Grande. Several vents are located on three sides of the uplifted Montagna Grande block on the southeast side of the island. A submarine eruption in 1891 from a vent off the northwest coast is the only confirmed historical activity.

Currently the island is subsiding, and Montagna Grande is slowly sinking. This is thought to be caused by the magma beneath the volcano cooling and degassing. There are numerous hot springs and fumaroles on the island due to an active hydrothermal system. Favara Grande, in the south east of the island, is one of the best examples. The island is releasing a small amount of CO2 through passive degassing. Total carbon stock in the first 30 cm of soil of Pantelleria is about 230,000 tonnes. The island is the type locality for pantellerite, a peralkaline rhyolite.

Climate
Pantelleria has a subtropical Mediterranean climate (Köppen: Csa) characterized by very warm to hot, almost rainless and humid summers, very mild and frost-free winters, a powerful seasonal lag and a small diurnal temperature range. The constant sea breezes moderate the daytime summer temperatures. Coastal Pantelleria (along with Lampedusa, Kasos, Karpathos, Kastellorizo and coastal Malta) is one of the very few areas along the Mediterranean Sea coast that has never recorded frost. Below freezing temperatures and snow only occur, and sporadically, at Montagna Grande and higher elevations on the island. Despite the very dry summers and the fairly low annual precipitation, the dry season is noticeably short at four months, and the rainy season lasts at least eight months.

Environment
Pantelleria National Park (Italian: Parco Nazionale dell'Isola di Pantelleria) was established in 2016, and covers an area of 66.4 km2, or 80% of the island.

Specchio di Venere (literally "Venus' mirror") is a natural lake formed in an extinct volcanic crater, and fed by rain and hot springs. The lake is 12 m deep and is popular for swimming, hot springs, and mud bathing. Other natural attractions are paths to the sea, a large network of trekking paths, hot springs, and a popular natural sauna fed by vapours filtering through rocks in a small cave. Also situated on the Island is Laghetto delle Ondine ("Pond of the ripples" or "Pond of the wavelets") a seawater lake which has developed into a very desired swimming hole.

The island has been recognised as an Important Bird Area (IBA) by BirdLife International because it supports a population of Eleonora's falcons, with some 35–40 breeding pairs estimated in 1994.

Economy
The economy of Pantelleria consistst mainly of agriculture and tourism.

Wine

Pantelleria is noted for its sweet wines, Moscato di Pantelleria and Moscato Passito di Pantelleria, both made from the local Zibibbo grape. In 2014, the traditional agricultural practice of cultivating the vite ad alberello (head-trained bush vines) of the community of Pantelleria was inscribed on the Representative List of the Intangible Cultural Heritage of Humanity of UNESCO.

Transport
The island is served by Pantelleria Airport, which is served by DAT, connecting Trapani and Palermo and other companies in summer, connecting the island with Italian cities such as Milan, Rome, Venice and others. Ferries reach the island from Trapani, and it is near the main east–west route through the Mediterranean Sea.

title: Pantelleria


text:
Pablo Mastroeni

Pablo Mastroeni (born August 29, 1976) is an American soccer coach and former player who is the head coach of Major League Soccer club Real Salt Lake. He was formerly head coach of the Colorado Rapids, and assistant coach of the Houston Dynamo. In his playing career, he played as a defensive midfielder. Born in Argentina, he played for the United States men's national team.

Early life and education
Mastroeni moved to the United States from Argentina with his family at the age of four, settling in Phoenix, Arizona. He attended Thunderbird High School, and played youth soccer for the Santos Futbol Clube. Mastroeni attended North Carolina State University where he played on the men's soccer team from 1994 to 1997. From 1995 to 1997, he spent the collegiate off season playing for the Tucson Amigos of the USISL.

Professional
In February 1998, the Miami Fusion selected Mastroeni in the second round (thirteenth overall) of the 1998 MLS College Draft. He played four seasons with the Fusion, becoming a regular starter in his second year with the team in either central defense or defensive midfield, and was named to the MLS Best XI in 2001.

The Fusion was contracted after the 2001 season and Mastroeni was the first overall choice of the 2002 MLS Allocation Draft, going to the Colorado Rapids, whom he captained to their first title in 2010. Mastroeni scored his first MLS playoff goal against the Columbus Crew on October 28, 2010.

Mastroeni was traded to the Los Angeles Galaxy in June 2013 and retired at the end of the season.

In 2021, Mastroeni's #25 was retired by the Colorado Rapids. This was the first number retired by the Colorado Rapids.

International career
Mastroeni earned his first U.S. cap against Ecuador on June 7, 2001. When Chris Armas went out with an injury just weeks prior to the 2002 World Cup, Mastroeni found himself a starter in the opening game as the U.S. defeated Portugal 3–2.

On January 10, 2005, it was reported that he tore the quadriceps in his left leg and would be out for six to eight weeks. The injury happened while training with the national team.

Mastroeni was named to the 2006 U.S. World Cup squad. In a FIFA World Cup 2006 match against Italy on June 17, Mastroeni was given a red card for an aggressive tackle in the first half. Mastroeni was fined CHF 7,500 and received a three-game suspension, thus missing the last U.S. match of the World Cup and the first two matches of the 2007 CONCACAF Gold Cup.

On February 7, 2007, during a friendly between the United States and Mexico, Mastroeni was the team captain.

Mastroeni was called up for the United States' first World Cup qualifying match of 2010 and two third-round matches, and started three of the first five final round matches for the United States. However, he was not named to the Confederations Cup roster nor any of the squads for the final five qualifiers for the United States.

2014
Mastroeni was named the interim head coach of the Colorado Rapids after Oscar Pareja left for FC Dallas in January 2014. He was named head coach of the Rapids on March 8, 2014, one week before the 2014 season began.

In 2014, Mastroeni and the Rapids experienced the worst Rapids season in the 34 game MLS era. Allowing the most goals in the MLS, 62, the Rapids finished second to last in the Western Conference with 32 points.

2015
2015 was another unsuccessful campaign for Mastroeni. The Rapids ended the season last in the Western Conference and second to last in the overall standings, receiving the second overall pick in the upcoming MLS Superdraft.

2016
During the offseason before the 2016 season, Mastroeni visited London, spending several days watching Arsenal and Tottenham train. While there, he analyzed the coaching styles of Tottenham's Mauricio Pochettino and Arsenal's Arsène Wenger, before he traveled to Orlando to attend a supplementary coaching course. Mastroeni helped the Rapids establish a team identity in 2016, a defensive based team which operated out of the 4-2-3-1 formation. This identity helped the Rapids to their best regular season record of all time, with a franchise low 6 losses and a franchise high of 58 points. The team allowed an MLS low 32 goals in 2016. Mastroeni finished second in voting for the annual MLS Coach of the Year award.

2017
In the offseason, Mastroeni signed a three-year contract extension, through 2019. On August 15, Mastroeni was fired as Head Coach and replaced by Steve Cooke.

Houston Dynamo
In 2020, Mastroeni was named as an assistant coach for the Houston Dynamo

2021
In 2021, Mastroeni was named as an assistant coach for Real Salt Lake On August 27, 2021, he was named the interim head coach upon Freddy Juarez's unexpected midseason departure. On December 13, 2021, Mastroeni was named permanent head coach of the club for the 2022 season.

United States

 * CONCACAF Gold Cup Champions: 2002, 2005, 2007

Miami Fusion

 * Major League Soccer Supporters Shield: 2001

Colorado Rapids

 * Major League Soccer Western Conference Championship: 2010
 * Major League Soccer MLS Cup:2010

Individual

 * MLS All-Star: 2000
 * MLS Best XI: 2001
 * CONCACAF Gold Cup All-Tournament team: 2007

title: Pablo Mastroeni


text:
Itatiba

Itatiba is a municipality in the state of São Paulo in Brazil, approximately 80 km from the State Capital. It is part of the Metropolitan Region of Campinas. The population is 122,581 (2020 est.) in an area of 322.28 km². The average elevation is 750 m. The place's name comes from the Tupi Guarani language, and means "Many Rocks". The city is known as the "Princess of the Hill" due to its rugged terrain. According to the Federation of Industries of the State of Rio de Janeiro, Itatiba is the third city with the highest quality of life in Brazil, presenting a FIRJAN Municipal Development Index of 0.9276. It is considered to be the town with the 3rd highest levels of oxygen in the air in the whole world. It used to be the furniture capital of Brazil. Itatiba also has the biggest thematic zoo in Latin America, the "Zooparque".

The city is also base of the famous country club and golf course Quinta da Baroneza.

Government

 * Mayor: Thomás Antonio Capeletto de Oliveira (2021/2024)
 * Deputy Mayor: Mauro Delforno (2021/2024)

Media
In telecommunications, the city was served by Companhia Telefônica Brasileira until 1973, when it began to be served by Telecomunicações de São Paulo. In July 1998, this company was acquired by Telefónica, which adopted the Vivo brand in 2012.

The company is currently an operator of cell phones, fixed lines, internet (fiber optics/4G) and television (satellite and cable).

Transportation
Near cities: Campinas, Valinhos, Vinhedo, Louveira, Jundiaí, Jarinú, Bragança Paulista, Morungaba and Atibaia.

Near Airports

 * International Airport of Viracopos - Campinas, 50 km;
 * Internacional Airport of Congonhas - São Paulo, 84 km;
 * Internacional Airport of São Paulo-Guarulhos (Cumbica), 100 km;
 * Airport of Bragança Paulista, 35 km;
 * Airport of Jundiaí, 24 km;.

Public Transit Service
The company that provides bus transportation in Itatiba is Transporte Coletivo de Itatiba (TCI).

Buses between cities
Rápido Fênix Viação - Campinas through Valinhos (EMTU), Campinas through Louveira, Jundiaí, Morungaba, Amparo, Atibaia, Bragança Paulista. Campinas through Rodovia Dom Pedro I (EMTU), Bragança Paulista, Jundiaí, Morungaba, Amparo, Serra Negra, Lindóia, Águas de Lindóia, São Paulo through Rodovia dos Bandeirantes, São Paulo through Rodovia Anhanguera, Santos, São Vicente, Praia Grande, Mongaguá.

Distances

 * 80 km from São Paulo (city)
 * 34 km from Campinas
 * 18 km from Jundiaí
 * 30 km from Jarinu
 * 35 km from Atibaia
 * 35 km from Bragança Paulista
 * 100 km from Jacareí
 * 14 km from Vinhedo
 * 10 km from Valinhos
 * 18 km from Louveira
 * 15 km from Morungaba

Sister cities

 * 🇯🇵 Tosa, Kōchi, Japan
 * Since August 5, 1989

 * 🇮🇹 Toro, Molise, Italy
 * Since September 4, 2009

 * 🇮🇹 Oratino, Molise, Italy
 * Since April 6, 2018

title: Itatiba


text:
Talk:Frohnau

The current version of this article is machine translated from de:Berlin-Frohnau. In case the anonymous user who contributed this happens to read this talk page, he or she should know that, generally speaking, machine translation of large segments of text are a bad idea. It is better to ask a fellow Wikipedian to translate a needed article at Translation into English. -- Itai 15:53, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Translation

 * de:Berlin-Frohnau
 * Corresponding English-language article: Frohnau
 * Worth doing because: Material to incorporate into English-language article
 * Originally Requested by: Itai 16:01, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Status: Done. Mpolo 19:26, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * Other notes: Article currently machine-translated (by Google, I think), and thus highly amusing. A proper translation might be a better idea, however. -- Itai 16:01, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Frohnau


text:
Itatinga

Itatinga is a municipality in the state of São Paulo in Brazil. The population is 20,921 (2020 est.) in an area of 980 km2. The elevation is 845 m. Its name comes from the Tupi language and means "white stone".

Media
In telecommunications, the city was served by Companhia Telefônica Brasileira until 1973, when it began to be served by Telecomunicações de São Paulo. In July 1998, this company was acquired by Telefónica, which adopted the Vivo brand in 2012.

The company is currently an operator of cell phones, fixed lines, internet (fiber optics/4G) and television (satellite and cable).

title: Itatinga


text:
Talk:Harald Schmidt

VIAF RECORD
This is wrong:

Schmidt, Harald, Dr. jur. VIAF ID: 40113817 (Personal) Permalink: http://viaf.org/viaf/40113817

this is correct:

Schmidt, Harald, 1957-.... VIAF ID: 261612129 (Personal) Permalink: http://viaf.org/viaf/261612129 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.228.50.119 (talk) 22:51, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Photo
That guy on the photo is definitely not Harald Schmidt.

 * True. It is a photo of Joseph Schmidt (cf. also http://www.mdr.de/mdr-figaro/programm/1243050-hintergrund-129509.html ). I remember Harald Schmidt's photo next to his biography, but I'm afraid it's gone irrevocably—someone seems to have uploaded [[media:Schmidt.jpg|Schmidt.jpg]] with exactly the same title, which means the old one has been deleted.

 * The same sort of thing happened to me ages ago with a picture of Jacqueline Bisset. The only thing we can do now is get rid of that photo and decide if it can find a new home where it would belong, i e on the Joseph Schmidt page.  17:46, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)

Internet meme
Should we add how Harald Schmidt has become an Internet meme started by 4chan? Here's the picture of the meme: http://omake.studio-zoe.com/fgsfds.jpg .The meme's explanation can be found at http://www.wikiworld.com/wiki/index.php/4chan : Use your browser's find function to find fgsfds. Casull 06:53, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't see why not. This meme is the only reason most non-German people know who he is.Peaceoutside (talk) 03:40, 12 March 2008 (UTC)
 * That source no longer supports information regarding 4chan, nor the fgsfds meme. Tar7arus (talk) 16:39, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

silly photograph
The photograph which was just added is silly. You can't see a bloody thing of what's important, can you? I still don't know how to add photographs to articles. Can anyone choose a better photograph than this one and add it?? Would be grand. --Fromgermany 17:44, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

stupid style
Whoever wrote this article (guess, he was German) has a bad style. My English isn't better either... Someone else should rewrite it a bit. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.52.158.5 (talk) 10:35, 7 May 2007 (UTC).

Plagiarism
I have removed the sentence claiming that he plagiarised from David Letterman. If anyone feels that it is true and can provide citations, then by all means add it again. Davedim (talk) 18:42, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Objectivity?!
Quoting (just as an example): "Yet sometimes the cameras caught sight of people in the audience who were laughing and shaking their heads at the same time, this being a typical reaction to Schmidt's jokes. People feel attracted and disgusted at the same time."

Pretty inappropriate... good luck trying to source that other than, say, from blogs and editorials.

Seigneur101 (talk) 02:01, 23 February 2009 (UTC)

B-Class
How is this a B-class article? It doesn't even have any sources and quite some stile issues. Janfrie1988 (talk) 01:06, 13 April 2010 (UTC)

Really? "Schmidt models himself after people like Johnny Carson and Conan O'Brien," With Johnny Carson, I could still believe it (where's the source), but Conan O'Brien is younger than Schmidt. Schmidt had his first successful show, MAZ Ab, in 1988, while O'Brien didn't get his own show until a few years later. I feel that the (possibly German) writer basically views the US late night shows as the source of all inspiration. (Again, with Johnny Carson or David Letterman, I'd buy into it...) User:davidswelt 2015

title: Talk:Harald Schmidt


text:
Itaí

Itaí is a municipality in the state of São Paulo in Brazil. The population is 27,382 (2020 est.) in an area of 1083 km². The elevation is 614 m. This place name comes from the Tupi language, "Itaí" means river stone. The Tropic of Capricorn crosses the city of Itaí.

History
Farmers close to the mouth of the Taquari River have difficulties in supplying and marketing their products given the distance from the nearest village, which was Faxina (now Itapeva). Thus, in 1869, Salvador de Freitas, José Silveira Melo, Manoel Pedroso de Oliveira and Captain José Floriano, founded on the slope of Serrinha, close to the Carrapatos river, a village with the name of Santo Antônio da Ponta da Serra, a name chosen in tribute to the patron saint and to define the position occupied by the nucleus.

The forty acres of the patrimony were acquired from Bernardino Leite by Salvador de Freitas and José Silveira Melo, Manoel Pedroso and captain José Floriano were responsible for the construction of the first building measuring approximately 80 square meters. In these forty acres a chapel and the first houses in the village were installed.

The village of Santo Antônio, founded by farmers, grew and organized itself around this chapel, which can be considered as the ground zero of the city of Itaí. At the time these buildings were built, a unique structure that existed there was a wooden and clay house, inhabited by Miguel Correa Melo and located at the northern end of today's Rua Salvador de Freitas.

As early as 1870, the initial plan of the village was drawn up and the square and streets were demarcated and places. In 1872, the locality already had around fifty habitable houses, showing a high rate of development compared to other villages existing in the region until that time.

This small initial development favored the transformation of the village into a parish on April 16, 1874. From that day on, the new parish was renamed "Santo Antônio da Boa Vista", belonging to the municipality of Itapetininga. On May 1, 1891, the parish was elevated to the category of village. On December 19, 1906, the village was elevated to the category of city and on November 25, 1920, by state law nº 1748, it completes its current name, Itaí. [3]

The neighboring village, Bom Sucesso (currently Paranapanema), which also began to form, was elevated to the category of parish, passing Santo Antônio da Ponta da Serra to its territory in March 1874. A month later, it was created in village of Santo Antônio das Pedras, a parish of Santo Antônio da Boa Vista, this last name being adopted for the old nucleus. In 1920, it was renamed Itaí, which in Tupi-Guarani means river stone ("ita" = stone + "y" = river).

Media
In telecommunications, the city was served by Telecomunicações de São Paulo. In July 1998, this company was acquired by Telefónica, which adopted the Vivo brand in 2012. The company is currently an operator of cell phones, fixed lines, internet (fiber optics/4G) and television (satellite and cable).

title: Itaí


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Quatri&egraveme Internationale Posadiste

Quatri&egraveme Internationale Posadiste
Move this into some sensible name. I have no clue what that could be, though. Or maybe delete since either of "Trotskyist-Posadist IVth International" and "Internationale Posadiste" don't yield that many Google hits. jni 15:55, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep as redirect to Trotskyist-Posadist IVth International. —No-One Jones (m) 15:57, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Bad transliteration that can't be searched for.  If this stays, I'm going to list it on rfd.  RickK 22:32, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * Good idea. There is not much point in storing redirects that contain misspelled character entities. I think this can be deleted in vfd without rfd, because this was not a redirect at the time I listed it here. Shouldn't left-overs from cut-and-paste moves be speedy candidates? jni 06:38, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Cut-and-paste moves are generally problematic, and history should be preserved, so they shouldn't be speedies. But there is nothing here we need to save. What was moved was an unselective list by an anon, two good reasons it's not copyrightable. The procedure for listings which become redirects while voting is in process is not clear IMO, but agree there's no point requiring this to be relisted on RfD. Andrewa 14:52, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)