text:
User:TrollQueen

Woof, Woof
 Damn, I Wish I Was Your Lover

My Idol: Courtney Love

Favorite Articles:
 * Fuck
 * List of ethnic slurs
 * List of sexual slurs

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User:TrollQueen


text:
Talk:IEEE 802.9

Untitled
what the hell is this article about? ping 08:27, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Is this used in any way at present? Past usage? There is no reason to keep it otherwise, because the lack of content and reasonable explanation shows that it is not in use. If you know what you are talking about, discuss, expand, improve. Otherwise, this will be nominated for AfD. Freedomlinux 06:24, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 * On 05 March 2007 around 16:00 EST, this page will be listed on AfD, if there is no action. Just a warning. Freedomlinux 04:24, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 * The article has been nominated for deletion, as it is jargon-ridden, outdated, undocumented, no longer notable, and has little following in the outside community (750 Google results). Please voice your opinion on the appropriate page. Freedomlinux 03:52, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:IEEE 802.9


text:
Flash Gordon's Trip to Mars

Flash Gordon's Trip to Mars is a 1938 Universal Pictures 15–chapter science-fiction movie serial based on the syndicated newspaper comic strip Flash Gordon. It is the second of the three Flash Gordon serials made by Universal between 1936 and 1940. The main cast from the first serial reprise their roles: Buster Crabbe as Flash Gordon, Jean Rogers as Dale Arden, Frank Shannon as Dr. Alexis Zarkov, Charles B. Middleton as Ming the Merciless, and Richard Alexander as Prince Barin. Also in the principal cast are Beatrice Roberts as Queen Azura, Donald Kerr as Happy Hapgood, Montague Shaw as the Clay King, and Wheeler Oakman as Ming's chief henchman. The serial was followed by Flash Gordon Conquers the Universe (1940).

Plot
When a mysterious beam of light starts disrupting and destroying the Earth's atmosphere, Flash Gordon (Buster Crabbe), Dr. Zarkov (Frank Shannon), and Dale Arden (Jean Rogers) - accidentally accompanied by wisecracking reporter Happy Hapgood (Donald Kerr) - swing into action in Zarkov's rocketship, believing that it could be coming from the planet Mongo. Once in space, they discover that the ray originates from Mars.

Journeying to the fourth planet, they discover their old enemy from Mongo, Ming the Merciless (Charles B. Middleton), is alive and allied with Azura (Beatrice Roberts), the Witch Queen of Mars. From there, under her protection, he is operating a Nitron ray destroying Earth's atmosphere. Azura can transmute people into living clay, condemned to live and die in darkened caves, and she is hated and feared by most of the population. Conversely, the Clay People, led by their King (Montague Shaw), know how to eliminate Azura's power, but lack the means of escaping the caves to which their ruined bodies restrict them.

Gordon and his party seem to hold the answer to their problem, except that the Clay People do not trust them at first, and end up holding Dale Arden hostage. Ultimately, the Earth visitors and the Clay People become allies in the tandem quest to defeat Azura and stop Ming from destroying the Earth. Flash, Dale, Zarkov, and Hapgood do battle against Azura's magic and her Martian space force, Ming's super-scientific weaponry, the treacherous Forest People, and other dangers on the Red Planet. Finally, they win by the classic strategy of divide-and-conquer, showing Azura that Ming has been plotting behind her back to take power from her.

Azura's alliance with Ming is broken, at the cost of the Queen's own life, but the Clay People are freed from their curse. The evil emperor of Mongo, his Nitron ray destroyed and his escape cut off on all sides by the now hostile Martian forces, is seemingly vanquished by the accidental result of his own machinations and treachery.

Cast

 * Buster Crabbe as Flash Gordon
 * Jean Rogers as Dale Arden
 * Charles B. Middleton as Ming the Merciless
 * Frank Shannon as Dr. Alexis Zarkov
 * Beatrice Roberts as Queen Azura
 * Donald Kerr as Happy Hapgood
 * Richard Alexander as Prince Barin
 * C. Montague Shaw as Clay King
 * Wheeler Oakman as Tarnak
 * Kenne Duncan as Airdrome captain
 * Warner Richmond as Zandar

Cast notes:
 * Charles Middleton's portrayal of Ming is devilish in this serial, as opposed his Fu Manchu-like performance in the first serial.

Production
This serial, the first sequel to the Flash Gordon serial, was based on the 1936 "Big Little Book" adaptation of the strip "Flash Gordon and the Witch Queen of Mongo". According to Harmon and Glut, the location was changed to Mars to capitalize on Orson Welles' famous War of the Worlds broadcast. According to Stedman, this serial preceded that broadcast, which made Universal hastily release a feature version of the serial as Mars Attacks the World to capitalize on the publicity. The film was a box-office success.

Flash Gordon's Trip to Mars was less expensive to make than the first Flash Gordon serial.

Mars Attacks the World
Universal Pictures also prepared a feature-length version of this serial, which was already ready for release in October 1938 when Orson Welles astounded the country with his Mercury Theatre on the Air radio production of H. G. Wells's The War of the Worlds. Universal then quickly had the feature's title changed to Mars Attacks the World, and a week after the Welles broadcast, opened it at a Broadway theater as a major premiere event. The original title for this feature had been Rocket Ship, which was subsequently used for reissues of the first Flash Gordon serial's feature version, which had been originally released under its source serial's title in 1936 in the United Kingdom.

Critical reception
Time in 1938 declared the serial to be "a Grade A cinemedition of the famed King Features strip".

Television broadcasting
In the 1950s, the three serials were broadcast on American television. To avoid confusion with a made-for-TV Flash Gordon series airing at the same time, they were retitled, becoming respectively Space Soldiers, Space Soldiers' Trip to Mars, and Space Soldiers Conquer the Universe. They were shown by PBS U.S. stations, and by the BBC in the United Kingdom – where they aired as Flash Gordon serials, under their original titles.

Chapters

 * 01 "New Worlds to Conquer"
 * 02 "The Living Dead"
 * 03 "Queen of Magic"
 * 04 "Ancient Enemies"
 * 05 "The Boomerang"
 * 06 "Tree-men of Mars"
 * 07 "The Prisoner of Mongo"
 * 08 "The Black Sapphire of Kalu"

 * 09 "Symbol of Death"
 * 10 "Incense of Forgetfulness"
 * 11 "Human Bait"
 * 12 "Ming the Merciless"
 * 13 "The Miracle of Magic"
 * 14 "A Beast at Bay"
 * 15 "An Eye for an Eye"

Source:

title: Flash Gordon's Trip to Mars


text:
Wikipedia talk:Australian Collaboration of the Fortnight

'''[ Please click here to start a new topic]

Nomination process is confusing
"Click here to add a new nomination" is totally broken... why is the only useful instruction in a hidden comment at the bottom of the page? :/ Are new nominations supposed to go at the start or end?

Also can someone rewrite the annoying 2 weeks thing using the nifty magic words? pfctdayelise (translate?) 08:58, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I've fixed "click here" to point at the right section again. I clarified that new nominations should be at the end.
 * I don't know if the "annoying 2 weeks thing" can be fixed with magic words, subst: and #expr or not. The algorithm for adding 14 days to a date is surprisingly complex as each month has a different number of days (and some Februarys are different again). I'm also not sure whether the subst can be protected now, but used when the template is copied without ending up with even more complex instructions. Most people seem to be able to cope with the current instructions. If you can't get the 14 days right, someone usually comes along and corrects it.
 * Do you have specific suggestions? It IS a wiki. --Scott Davis Talk 07:57, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Do you mean template as in an actual template or just the html comment? pfctdayelise (translate?) 08:08, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I meant the text in the HTML comment. Do you think the process could be made easier with a Wikimedia template? --Scott Davis Talk 13:49, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

 * OK let me see... today is, 2 weeks will be . Hm, do these subst? test: Sat 21 Oct --pfctdayelise (translate?) 14:56, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

 * OK inputbox doesn't actually work as the box specifies... I will see if any help on buzilla comes first. pfctdayelise (translate?) 15:40, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I see you've worked out how to do times with ParserFunctions ( gives ). To get them to subst properly just stick around the "subst", which I've done now. --bainer (talk) 02:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Thanks bainer. And I fixed up the sig thing based on a similar trick. So it is more or less good to go. All you need to do is press the button, change the article name and add a reason, if you want. pfctdayelise (translate?) 03:04, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

Does the above box work? If so, should it now be added to the page? It would greatly simply nominations.--cj | talk 19:56, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Current collaboration template updated
I noticed that the sign at the head of ACOTF was still saying Gough Whitlam several days after Bringing them Home was announced as the new ACOTF, so I tracked down the templates and updated them to point to the new article. Hope I haven't broken any rules. Phaedrus86 22:08, 2 November 2006 (UTC)

 * Not at all - thankyou. The main page says anyone can update it after about 8pm AEST on the relevent Sunday nights. I got round to it at about 1am the next morning, and seem to have missed one of the most important bits! Thanks. --Scott Davis Talk 00:38, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

 * We all slip up occasionally, especially at 1am! Glad I could help. Phaedrus86 00:44, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

Time to update the guidelines?
The first two paragraphs of the ACOTF page include:
 * This is a specific topic which either has no article or a basic stub page that is directly related to Australia, the aim being to have a featured-standard article by the end of the period, from widespread cooperative editing.
 * The project aims to fill gaps about Australia in Wikipedia, to give users a focus and to give us all something to be proud of.

And further down under "Considerations for nominations"
 * Please only nominate Australian articles which don't currently exist or need serious work. '' – also see Australia stubs).

It seems to be time to discuss updating these guidelines to keep up with the times. Since these were written:
 * The Feature Article standards have increased significantly
 * Many more Australian topics have articles giving at least basic information
 * The referencing standards have become stronger
 * WikiProject Australia has been established and this collaboration has become part of it.

To start a discussion:
 * Several successful recent collaborations have started with longer articles
 * Do we wish to drop or weaken the suggestion it should only be about missing and stub articles?
 * Specifically mention Category:Australia articles without a WikiProject and / or Category:Australia articles needing attention
 * Do we wish to increase the emphasis on reaching FA? Or soften that, but aim for GA?

--Scott Davis Talk 02:46, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

 * There are comparatively few missing or stub topics now that need this sort of attention than there were in 2004, and more longer articles that could really do with that time, so I think we should get rid of the suggestion that it need be either missing or a stub. Mentioning those categories could be good for potential collaborations, but I don't think it needs to be a requirement. Making FA, on the other hand, needs to remain the fundamental aim of this - GA is comparatively pointless. Rebecca 05:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

 * To be honest, I hadn't noticed that the categories you mentioned existed. In theory, any article that is proposed for ACOTF should already be in both of those categories and would be in neither by the end of the fortnight.

 * This might sound a little harsh, but I think that if someone wants to propose an article that doesn't exist, they should create the stub or place it in Requests, then propose the ACOTF after the article has been created.

 * I don't think that the length of the article should work against it. I'd propose to change the first sentence to:
 * This is a specific topic which is significant to, and directly related to, Australia. The aim is to substantially improve the article, ideally to featured-standard, by the end of the period, from widespread cooperative editing.
 * In this scenario, there is theoretically no reason why an article couldn't be ACOTF once to get it from stub to reasonable, then sometime later be ACOTF again to get to FA. --Athol Mullen 05:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
 * From non-existant to FA in a fortnight? Holy Crap! If we could do that WP would be emblazoned all over with FA articles. While ideally with a very active colab this might happen, I believe it would be an outside shot at even being idealistic - think virtually impossible. Prove me wrong and I'll be impressed. I like the suggestion above by Athol Mullen. The criteria should be significance not stub or non-existant. Now if someone wants to suggest a significant subject that is non-existant, I think more than just myself would be interested to hear. I like the ultimate aim of ACOTF being FA status or candidacy by the end of it. Persoally I think we need to have a head start and work with a article with a framework to build on. SauliH 05:44, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Athol - the orphan articles category won't change by a collaboration - that changes when a new Australian Wikiproject is formed and picks up some articles. I mentioned it here as that contains articles that do not already have a group of interested editors covering them.

 * My current proposed first paragraphs:
 * Every two weeks, an Australian Collaboration of the Fortnight will be picked using this page. This is a specific topic directly related to Australia, the aim being to develop the article to featured-standard article by the end of the period or soon after, from widespread cooperative editing.

 * The project aims to fill gaps about Australia in Wikipedia, to give users a focus and to give us all something to be proud of.

 * Considerations for nominations
 * Please only nominate Australian articles (or topics) which need serious work. If you have an article that is not related to Australia please use Collaboration of the Week, which is not specific to Australian articles.
 * Giving reasons as to why an article should become the ACOTF may assist others in casting their vote.
 * Can the wider community easily contribute to the article? Or is it something only a small number of people will know about?
 * Sources to find articles to nominate might include:
 * Australian Wikipedians' notice board/Complete to-do
 * Category:Australia articles without a WikiProject
 * Category:Australia articles needing attention
 * Australia stubs or its subcategories
 * Collaborations sometimes work better if people know how to help. Consider adding a todo template to the article's talk page, and identifying what you think needs doings for others to add to or fix.
 * I realise I'm pushing, so if you think I'm going the wrong way, please say so. --Scott Davis Talk 14:27, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I support the revised guideline proposed by ScottDavis, in particular the notion that the ACOTF is to give users a focus and to give us all something to be proud of. To achieve the aim it cannot be too esoteric a subject, thus it should be  subject the wider Australian Wikipedian community can contribute to.  Some clarity of direction is useful and review of aims seems appropriate; I don't see this as "pushing" :- )--Golden Wattle  talk 21:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I don't see any aspect that's pushy: these are perfectly sensible suggestions, which ideally should be enacted as soon as possible. In my opinion, there's long been a disconect between guidelines and practice on this page; these changes would simply recognise the approach most now expect of ACOTF.--cj | talk 23:22, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

 * I support ScottDavis' proposal. Anybody can create a stub, but people will only work on an article if they think it is notable, as is shown by the ignored requests for new articles, most of which have been around for ages (Bicentennial Heritage Trail, Daintree Reef, George Adams, Insurance in Australia, Poppy Industries, Sports Rorts affair, State Orchestra of Victoria, Yarmirr v Northern Territory).--Grahamec 01:58, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the encouragement. I've updated the page in the spirit of the proposal above. Please continue to discuss or improve these guidelines if required. Thanks. --Scott Davis Talk 14:20, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

Jump on board, another Feature article is within our grasp
Only a few more days of the Palm Island article being ACOTF, but already a new record for this Collaboration has been set!!! In only ten days 140 edits have been made by about a dozen editors!

This is what ACOTF is all about :) Please jump on board for the last 100 meter slog to get this thing up to a standard that is eligible for consideration to become a featured-standard article. This could be the first in over two years to make it, but we need more editors who would like to see this one go Feature. See you on Palm, WikiTownsvillian 12:16, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Banner
That bright yellow banner hurts my eyes. Perhaps choose a more subtle, pastel shade? --Oreo Priest 00:52, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

 * I think that's meant to be gold, as in green and gold.Garrie 22:52, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Results notification
For Scott's work in notifying particpants of results (Mulesing, Leyland Brothers, Road transport in Australia, Bushranger, Climate of Australia) I have awarded him the Working Man's Barnstar at his talk page.

Thanks Scott, I'm sure your notifications have helped in improving articles at least as much as the voting process and choosing which article should actually be the Collaboration article.Garrie 23:00, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Comment/Concern
The current nomination precess requires that the subject/edit summary field is left blank during nomination, given the profound want for 100% edit summaries at WP:RFA can this be rectified. Gnangarra 04:26, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

ACOTF template
I note that the ACOTF template has been removed (twice) from the current collaboration - Australian literature - by a user claiming they only go on talk pages. Certainly, the ACOTF template has been shown on the current collaboration for as long as I have been here and I am unaware of it ever being an issue. Is this a new guideline? -- Mattinbgn/talk 03:43, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * No. It's just one user enforcing their own preference.--cj | talk 03:47, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
 * They should go on talk pages, usually. Ral315 (talk) 01:48, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I have placed the tag back on the article, following long standing precedent. If you can show me  some guideline or policy regarding the location of these tags I will consider removing it. -- Mattinbgn\talk 02:03, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure it's been discussed specifically, but I would note that self-references are generally discouraged (I believe this is one), and that of active improvement projects, the current article improvement drive, core topics, biography, alternative music, football (soccer), wrestling, rugby union, Peru, Anglicanism, birds, mathematics, medicine, molecular and cellular biology, pharmacology, science, space, U.S. Roads, and the Universities projects all use talk page messages. Only novels, the U.S. Congress projects, and of course Australia use templates on the article page.  While it isn't standard across all projects, it is at the very least a guideline (with 18 of 21 active projects using talk page messages instead).  Ral315 (talk) 02:34, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the detailed reply. Is it a self reference? Perhaps, but no more than cleanup tags and the like. Similar to cleanup tags, it is an invitation to editors to participate in the editing process. I will wait and see what others think.  Cheers, Mattinbgn\talk 03:00, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I believe Ral315 is correct. This project was a specialization of Collaboration of the week, which was using banners on talk pages rather than article pages ever since well before ACOTW was started in late 2004. And as he points out, almost all other improvement projects use talk page banners; and indeed it is general style that project-related matters are kept on talk pages. --Stormie (talk) 03:31, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I concur with Mattinbgn that it is in a way akin to clean up tags or even AfD motices - no worse a sin as far as self reference goes. I believe that on a talk page the message would be lost for the sake of immediacy but perhaps the collaboration message is transmitted in other ways anyway - eg by editors indicating prefernce and being reminded when their preference comes up plus an update to to the Australian noticeboard.  Not going to die in a ditch over it but I don't see the harm in it staying either.--Matilda talk 04:02, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * There are numerous other projects that do it the way we do (I don't care either way, for the record, but I do love consensus) - WP:VG used too (that's inactive now), and WP:MYMEMORYISFAILING :( did too. Agree also on the Cleanup tags issue - just like they invite readers to help, so this invites readers to improve the article towards FA standard (is that a bad thing?). Dihydrogen Monoxide 08:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

 * It really is extremely bad practice putting the collaboration tag on the main article page. We use article tags to primarily inform our readers of issues there might be with an article. For instance, and unreferenced tag tells our reader that it may not be as reliable as other articles, a deletion tag tells readers that the article may not conform to our standards and will likely be deleted soon. The tags should have a benefit to our readers. The talk page of an article is there for collaboration and this is where any “article of the week” tags should be placed. This is the only time I have seen this happen, and I have to say that I’m disappointed.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  20:21, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I am disappointed, but not surprised, that you have taken a unilateral decision to remove the template without waiting for consensus to be reached here, knowing the issue was under discussion. A cleanup tag, such as wikify or tone makes no such statement to the reader and is a clear and unambiguous invitation to the reader to edit the article. As for bad practise, as mentioned above, there are other collaboration templates that are shown on the article itself.  Show me the policy, guideline or discussion with clear consensus on this issue, otherwise how about waiting until consensus is reached here. -- Mattinbgn\talk 20:29, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * What you're essentially trying to do is own the article. We have tags to inform readers of possible problems with the article. A wikify template still lets the reader know it's sub standard. Tags to articles are wikipedia wide, not just one special wikiproject. This really isn't done in any other wikiproject, and as I said, it's something for the talk page, not for the main page. Talk=collaboration, main=reader. This tag does nothing whatsoever for the reader. I don't believe we should get a consensus here where most of the people will most likely want to keep it, a wider audience may be better. I'm sure there's something in the manual of style about this.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  20:37, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * How is wanting to wait for consensus trying to OWN the article? You are the one attempting to impose a unilateral preference and override longstanding precedent, I am willing to abide by consensus and I am quite happy for it to be a wider discussion than what it is at the moment. The content is freely edited and I have made very little (if any) contributions to the article, other than reverting vandalism and replacing this template.  A wikify tag does not point out any problem to a reader that isn't immediately obvious.  It is nothing but an invitation to edit and I can't se how it is any different to a collaboration tag. -- Mattinbgn\talk 20:57, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

 * OK, from Template namespace - "Templates used in pages from the article namespace provide information to help readers. These can include navigation aids, or warnings that content is sub-standard. Templates that provide information only of service to editors belong on an article's talk page." - hope that explains why the template must be added to the talk not the article.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  20:47, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I disagree with the removal of the template (especially the unilateral removal without discussion first), and agree with the points above that it's no more a self-reference than the wikify template is. Would it help to modify the template so that it fits in with the "new" style of the other commonly used article templates?  Lankiveil (talk) 08:05, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The tag is of service to readers, by notifying them that 1) The article is not perfect yet. 2) The article is improving. 3) We have a WikiProject devoted to this stuff, which you can join if you want to help out. Dihydrogen Monoxide 11:07, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It gives no indication of what is "wrong" with the article. It does not inform he reader it is sub standard, it merely tells the editor that there's a collaboration effort going on with it at the minute. WikiProject tags go on talk pages, I've pointed to the policy above - it's quite clear where these tags go.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  16:01, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
 * If you didn't know what wikify meant, who would "please wikify this article" help you? How would that tell you what's "wrong" with the article? Dihydrogen Monoxide (party) 08:48, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It shows the article is substandard, it's not wikified correctly. Yeah, fair enough, it's not going to help the reader that much, but it does notify them that they won't easily be able to move onto articles related to that topic. 12:32, 17 January 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryan Postlethwaite (talk • contribs)
 * OK, fair enough. Well, since most others seem to have stop fighting, and as I said above that I don't really care either way, I'll stop kicking the horse now. Now Ryan, it's your moral duty to help Brisbane towards FA standard, right? ;) Dihydrogen Monoxide (party) 07:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

 * If I closed my eyes and put my fingers in my ears, it would continue to go on the article page, as that's what we've always done. I do see it as a warning to readers, along the lines of the current event template: the page may be changing rapidly. This matters if people are using Wikipedia as a reference for a school assignment, for example. Collaborations says:
 * Most collaborations use templates to mark the current collaboration and candidates for future collaborations. General practice is to have the template marking the current collaboration at the top of the article in question while leaving the candidacy templates on the talk page.
 * --Scott Davis Talk 09:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That collaboration page actually had consensus on the talk that all such templates should go on the article talk page, but no-one got round to implementing it. I have now gone ahead and changed the wording.  Ry an P os tl et hw ai te  17:05, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
 * It would be a problem if it was up indefinitely but we're talking about a template which is present for two whole weeks, then removed. I honestly don't see the problem, and I think consensus is pretty clear. Orderinchaos 12:37, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
 * Note that my quote above came from this version of Wikipedia:Collaborations which has since been changed by User:Mclovin acting for User:Ryan Postlethwaite to reflect his view of consensus from 18 months ago on its talk page. While a majority appeared to support his opinion, it was far from unanimous, and somewhat confused by also talking about collaboration candidate templates, which we have rolled in to the WPAus template on the talk page. I think the majority here is in fact the other way: that the current Australian collaboration template should remain on the article page itself. Comment? --Scott Davis Talk 11:45, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
 * That would seem to be a reasonable conclusion. Consensus is not on the basis of "once established, bound forever" - and what was actually determined by the consensus in August 2006 doesn't quite seem to relate to our use of the template here. I still maintain that the use of a template which only occupies a single article for 2 weeks at any one time is doing no-one any harm. Orderinchaos 21:53, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Any localised consensus here counts for little. This is clearly a project notice rather than a cleanup notice, and so should be on the talk page, in the same way that WikiProject notices should be. Other, similar projects (Spotlight, the WikiProject Biography collaboration, etc) all place these templates on talk pages. Whether this is a current collaboration is of no interest to a reader of the article (as opposed to the reader of a portal, who may well be interested) but would be interested in a tag notifying them that neutrality, sourcing or whatever was a problem. The consensus that cleanup templates go on articles is fairly longstanding and stable, but these self-references do not belong in articles. J Milburn (talk) 12:07, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * There is also longstanding precedent for this template to appear on the article space and the seeming consensus (at least the existing practise did not change) from the above discussion was to leave it there. Certainly, there is nothing in Collaborations to say that it shouldn't. In fact it says the following "Most collaborations use templates to mark the current collaboration and candidates for future collaborations. The template marking the current collaboration should be placed at the top of the article in question." -- Mattinbgn\talk 19:50, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * That same point was raised above, and it was duly changed to reflect some outdated consensus there, and now it seems it's been changed back. Whatever, that's not exactly a foundation policy or anything. The point is that this template is very much out of the oridinary compared to other templates of the same type, and a localised consensus to treat one article, template, group of articles or whatever differently from others without a good reason just doesn't really fly. If this one is to be included on the article, why not include WikiProject notices? WikiProjects are clearly of interest only from a collaborative point of view, and so they go on the collaboration page- the talk page. Cleanup templates are placed on the article partly to look bad- in looking bad, they encourage people to fix the issues. This one isn't drawing attention to an issue, but to a collaboration relevant to the article. It should therefore be treated as what it is- a WikiProject notice, and thus put on the talk page. J Milburn (talk) 19:56, 11 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Disagree, wikify, cleanup, even the humble stub (You can help Wikipedia by expanding it) are without doubt self-referential tags clearly designed to encourage readers to edit the article, so I don't feel that there is any broad consensus that self-referential templates are verboten. The argument that templates are placed on the article "in part to look bad" is a novel one, although not without merit, but I don't see how the same argument doesn't apply to collaboration tags. I point you to the place where I can expect broader consensus to prevail and rather than provide counter-evidence of this supposed broader consensus, you instead do two things. Firstly, dismiss WP:COLLABORATE as not being "exactly a foundation policy or anything". Of course most of our guidelines at Wikipedia are not foundation policy either but that does not mean they are without merit. Secondly, you dismissed the consensus here (or at least the lack of consensus for your -and Ryan's - view) as being that of a minority (with a hint of a WP:OWN violation). Fine, if you want a broader discussion, point me to it. In the meantime, I see no reason why the existing practise, over many years, of placing the ACOTF template on the article page should change. -- Mattinbgn\talk 00:16, 12 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I don't actually care enough to take it further, but I will leave you with two thoughts- it looks terrible, so it's going to discourage your readers, and I have little doubt that others will complain in the future. Do you really have much to gain from placing it on the talk page? Why not just treat it like every other WikiProject template, and keep it off the article? J Milburn (talk) 16:46, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

Time of new ACOTF
Hi everyone. I've been slack and not rolled over the ACOTF for nearly a fortnight more than it should be. Sorry about that, real life got in the way. I'm about to do it now, and will change the time from 8pm to midday on Sundays, as I find I'm at least as likely to want to look at it in the afternoon as in the evenings on Sundays. --Scott Davis Talk 08:42, 22 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm cool with that. Thanks for your work. dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 09:00, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

RfC: Should the collaboration template appear on the article page
Following on from the discussion above and the recent reversion at Gundagai (current collaboration), I have raised an RfC at Wikipedia talk:Collaborations--Matilda talk 00:49, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It's now at Wikipedia_talk:Template_namespace, for the record. dihydrogen monoxide (H2O) 07:00, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Some idle thoughts on fortnights and months
Is there a view about whether a fortnight is too short a time to get an article close to featured standard, as the template says? Should we be looking at ACOTMonth? I notice from the archives that it used to be ACOTW but that articles were either new or stubs. Now we are working with established pages, which means to genuinely improve them requires more detailed research. Unless an editor happens to have materials to hand at the start of the fortnight they will struggle to get the background to make a major contribution before the fortnight closes. I appreciate anyone can continue to work on articles after the ACOTF period has closed - I'll keep going on HM Bark Endeavour for example - but we miss the point of the collaboration if some contributors can't get involved at the same time as everyone else.

I'm not wedded to this suggested change - just thought I'd throw it out there for discussion. Any other views? Euryalus (talk) 22:42, 14 September 2008 (UTC)

 * I've tended to being rather slack on Wikipedia lately, and I'm the main person who changes these around, so some have extended closer to a month anyway. My feeling is that if I remember to change it and advertise the change, then the edit rate drops off by the end of the fortnight. If someone or a small team want to progress to FA or GA, then they've had the wider collaboration to get well on the way, and they con continue without the ACOTF banner, which clearly needs to be removed from a GA or FA anyway. --Scott Davis Talk 12:18, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Category:Unassessed Australia articles
I went to work on this current Collaboration but could not find any unassessed articles. No details are listed on the talk page as to what is required, so am unsure what we are trying to improve there. Not sure also how it can be improved to featured article standard as it states 'this page is not an article and does not require a rating on the quality scale'. So am lost on what is required here. Boylo (talk) 11:00, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

expiry date principle
Just in case anyone is interested, the principle I have been attempting to follow when deciding whether to update expiry dates or to move nominations to the /Removed page is that "two weeks" is equivalent to "a selection cycle". Thus a nomination can't expire until as many days after the next selection date as the number of days it was nominated after the preceding selection. Every two additional votes move the expiry date out by the number of days (theoretically 14) of the next active collaboration. If I or anyone else correctly change the active collaboration every second Sunday, that is the same as the rules written on the page. This paragraph is an attempt at explaining how I've decided what to keep, and what dates to use, for when I've been busy outside of Wikipedia. --Scott Davis Talk 14:06, 7 December 2008 (UTC)

RIP ACotF
You were kind of useful for a little while. Never quite reaching a critical mass you seem to have just faded away into a nice thought. I'll miss you as I keep doing my own thing just as many other Australian editors do. - Shiftchange (talk) 14:27, 13 October 2009 (UTC)

 * Will try to revive ACotF over the Aussie summer - don't give up hope yet! Australian Matt (talk) 01:57, 23 November 2009 (UTC)

 * It is now July 2010, was anyone looking at this? I would run with it, but the template used to specify the article is locked by an administrator and cannot be changed by myself. Jwoodger (talk) 23:57, 25 July 2010 (UTC)


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Killers (Hemingway)

The Killers (Hemingway) was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was keep

Not notable. TrollQueen 08:38, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. The article on Ernest Hemingway describes The Killers as 'one of Hemingways best-known and most-anthologized stories', which would certainly make it notable. It was also made into a film, starring Burt Lancaster and Ava Gardner. Average Earthman 09:16, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Wow, became a mythical movie. Keep --Pgreenfinch 10:22, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Hmm. I'm not sure where I got this idea (maybe username, userpage, and edit history), but I have a sneaking suspicion that this individual might be a troll. Can we just remove this frivolous listing? Cool Hand Luke  10:50, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I think you're right - this looks suspiciously like a revenge nomination. Average Earthman 12:41, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep The user who nominated it is clearly a troll and has already been vandalising. It's possible it's someone doing it for the nomination of The Killers for vfd that's still under discussion. The user's page is also offensive. However i'd suggest switching the two articles. The Killers, as a Hemingway work is quite more seminal then the band, so i'd suggest This article going under The Killers and the current article going under The Killlers(band).
 * And again, I forget to sign myself --Asmodai 13:17, Sep 30, 2004 (UTC)
 * Comment: Wouldn't it be better to use an empty disambig page rather than one hosted by the hemingway story? --Improv 13:34, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Any writing by Hemingway is per se notable.  Postdlf 13:37, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep (I can say without even having read the article), but perhaps move to The Killers (story) or some such, for the sake of consistency. I think in general novels are listed as novel name (novel), rather than novel name (author), and I think the same should go for stories. Unless there's another notable story also called "The Killers". Or, as some else suggested, list it at the The Killers and have a note and link to the band or The Killers (disamigbuation) (if there's another entry, eg the Reagan movie) at the top. -R. fiend 17:51, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, and please stop this deletion trolling. The Recycling Troll 20:57, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Sigh. Keep Dsmdgold 21:40, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, the Hemingway Nick Adams stories are famous, and it was made into two movies, the forementioned 1946 movie with Burt Lancaster and Ava Gardner and a 1964 movie with Lee Marvin, Angie Dickinson, and John Cassavetes. See and  [[User:Dpbsmith|Dpbsmith (talk)]] 01:15, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, obviously. -- Netoholic @ 16:41, 2004 Oct 1 (UTC)
 * Keep and move to Gamaliel [[Image:Watchmensmiley20.gif]] 20:14, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. What's with all the "non-notable" bullshit? If there seems to be a lot of people working on it, wouldn't that make it notable to them? What are you, a bureaucrat from the central board of planning of what's notable and what's not? --Tmh 21:44, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Since concensus seems clear, I propose removing this listing within 24 hours unless there are any objections. -- Netoholic @ 16:41, 2004 Oct 1 (UTC)
 * I would prefer that we merely move it from a transcluded discussion to a link. See the draft recommendations at Maintenance for reasons. Rossami

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Tadhg

Tadhg, also Taḋg, commonly anglicized as "Taig" or "Teague",   is an Irish and Scottish Gaelic masculine name that was very common when the Goidelic languages predominated, to the extent that it is a synecdoche for Irish-speaking man. The name signifies "poet" or "philosopher". This was also the name of many Gaelic Irish kings from the 10th to the 16th centuries, particularly in Connacht and Munster. Tadhg is most common in southwest Ireland, particularly in County Cork and County Kerry. The name has had a surge in popularity in the early 21st century; As of 2000 it was the 92nd most common name for baby boys in Ireland, according to the Central Statistics Office, rising to 69th by 2005. By 2022, it had risen to the 7th most common name for newly registered male births.

Etymology
The commonly accepted meaning of Tadhg is "poet" or "storyteller". The ultimate derivation is from the Celtic, who were poets in early Celtic society. In any case, the name is widely attested in Gaulish and early British names.

When the whole of Ireland was part of the United Kingdom, many Irish names and place-names were given English meanings. Due to similarity in sound, Tadhg is often listed as an Irish equivalent of the English-language names Timothy (Tim) or Thaddeus.

The name is also spelled "Taḋg" in Gaelic type with an overdot over the d to indicate it is lenited; the "dh" serves a similar purpose in the modern spelling. Tadhg has been anglicized as "Taihg", "Tighe" and "Teague". Alternative spellings include "Tadgh" and "Tadg".

Synecdoche
Tadhg is also a metonym and was once so common as an Irish name that it became synonymous with the typical Irishman in the same way that Paddy or Mick might be today. Hence, Irish phrases such as Tadhg an mhargaidh (lit: Tadhg of the market) or Tadhg na sráide (lit: Tadhg of the street) are similar to the English language expression "average Joe" or "the man on the street"

The anglicisation Taig (and formerly Teague) has been used in English since the seventeenth century to refer to Irishmen. The Irish-language name is used defiantly in a Jacobite poem written in the 1690s:

! Original !rowspan=5| ! Translation
 * "You Popish rogue", ní leomhaid a labhairt sinn
 * "You Popish rogue" is not spoken
 * acht "Cromwellian dog" is focal faire againn
 * but "Cromwellian dog" is our watchword,
 * nó "cia sud thall" go teann gan eagla
 * "Who goes there" does not provoke fear,
 * "Mise Tadhg" géadh teinn an t-agallamh
 * "I am Tadhg" is the answer given
 * }
 * "Mise Tadhg" géadh teinn an t-agallamh
 * "I am Tadhg" is the answer given
 * }
 * }

Taig in the Troubles in Northern Ireland was used as an abusive and pejorative term by Protestant loyalists to refer to Catholic nationalists.

Traditional

 * Tadg mac Nuadat, a Druid in the Fenian Cycle, grandfather of Fionn mac Cumhail
 * Tadhg Ó Cuinn, Irish scribe and author

Gaelic nobility

 * Tadg mac Conchobair (died 900), king of Connacht
 * Tadg mac Cathail (died 956), king of Connacht
 * Tadg mac Conchobair (died 962), king of Ailech
 * Tadhg mac Muircheartach (died 971), king of Uí Díarmata
 * Tadhg Mór Ua Cellaigh (died 1014), king of Uí Maine
 * Tadc mac Briain (died 1023), contender for king of Munster
 * Tadg in Eich Gil (died 1030), king of Connacht
 * Tadhg mac Muirchertach (fl. 11th century), king of Moylurg
 * Tadg mac Ruaidrí Ua Conchobair (died 1097), king of Connacht
 * Tadhg mac Muireadach Mac Cárthaigh (died 1123), king of Desmond
 * Tadhg Mor mac Maelruanaidh (died 1124), king of Moylurg
 * Tadhg Ua Cellaigh (abducted 1145), king of Uí Maine
 * Teige Ua Con Ceannainn (fl. 1152), king of Uí Díarmata
 * Tadg Gláe macDiarmata Ó Briain (died 1154), claimed king of Desmond
 * Tadhg Cael Uisce Ó Briain (died 1269), tanist of Thomond
 * Tadhg mac Diarmata (died 1281), king of Moylurg
 * Tadhg Ó Cellaigh (died 1316), king of Uí Maine
 * Tadhg Óg Ó Cellaigh (died 1340), king of Uí Maine
 * Tadhg na gcoar Ó Ruairc (died 1376), king of West Breifne
 * Tadhg Ruadh Ó Cellaigh (died 1410), king of Uí Maine
 * Tadhg na Mainistreach Mac Carthaigh Mór (died 1428), king of Desmond
 * Tadhg Riabhach Ó Dubhda (died 1432), king of Ui Fiachrach Muaidhe
 * Tadhg mac Tigernán Mór Ó Ruairc (died 1435), king of West Breifne
 * Tadhg an Glemore Ó Briain (died 1438), king of Thomond
 * Tadhg an Chomhaid Ó Briain (died 1466), king of Thomond
 * Tadhg mac Diarmaid Ó Máille (died 1467), king of Umaill
 * Tadhg Caech Ó Cellaigh (abdicated 1476), king of Uí Maine
 * Tadhg mac Diarmata (died 1499), king of Moylurg
 * Tadhg Liath Mac Carthaigh Mór (died 1503), king of Desmond
 * Tadhg na Leamhna Mac Cárthaigh (died 1514), claimed king of Desmond
 * Tadhg Ruadh mac Toirrdelbach (died 1553), king of Mide
 * Tadhg mac Brian Ballach Ó Ruairc (died 1560), king of West Breifne
 * Tadhg mac Diarmata (died 1585), king of Moylurg
 * Tadhg mac Briain na Murtha Ó Ruairc (died 1605), king of West Breifne

Recent

 * Tadhg Cooke, Irish contemporary musician
 * Tadhg Ó Donnchadha (1874–1949), activist for the Gaelic League
 * Tadhg Furlong (born 1992), Irish rugby player
 * Tadhg Kennelly (born 1981), Gaelic and Australian Rules footballer
 * Tadhg Dall Ó hÚigínn (1550–1591), Irish poet murdered allegedly for writing a satirical poem which insulted a rival aristocratic family
 * Tadhg Purcell (born 1985), Irish soccer player
 * George MacDonald Fraser's 1977 novel Flashman's Lady features the comic character Daedalus Tighe, and John B. Keane's 1965 play The Field, has a character named Tadhg McCabe.

title: Tadhg


text:
Irwin Shaw

Irwin Shaw (February 27, 1913 – May 16, 1984) was an American playwright, screenwriter, novelist, and short-story author whose written works have sold more than 14 million copies. He is best known for two of his novels: The Young Lions (1948), about the fate of three soldiers during World War II, which was made into a film of the same name starring Marlon Brando and Montgomery Clift, and Rich Man, Poor Man (1970), about the fate of two brothers and a sister in the post-World War II decades, which in 1976 was made into a popular miniseries starring Peter Strauss, Nick Nolte, and Susan Blakely.

Personal life
Shaw was born Irwin Gilbert Shamforoff in the South Bronx, New York City, to Jewish immigrants from Nizhyn, Ukraine His parents were Rose and Will. His younger brother, David Shaw, became a noted Hollywood producer and writer. Shortly after Irwin's birth, the Shamforoffs moved to Brooklyn. Irwin changed his surname upon entering college. He spent most of his youth in Brooklyn, where he graduated from Brooklyn College with a Bachelor of Arts degree in 1934.

He began screenwriting in 1935 at age 21. In 1939 he married actress and producer Marian Edwards, daughter of silent film actor Snitz Edwards. The couple divorced in 1967, remarrying two years before Irwin's death in 1984.

During World War II, he was approached by William Wyler to join his film unit. Unable to be commissioned as an officer due to his age and 1-A draft status, Shaw decided to enter the Regular Army. Later, the Army, noting his background, reassigned him to the Signal Corps with George Stevens' film unit. He was one of four writers attached to Stevens' command, in which he became a warrant officer. After the war, he returned to his career as a writer.

Shaw died in Davos, Switzerland on May 16, 1984, at age 71, after undergoing treatment for prostate cancer.

Drama
In the 1930s, Shaw wrote scripts for several radio shows, including Dick Tracy, The Gumps and Studio One. He recaptured this period of his life in his short story "Main Currents of American Thought," about a hack radio writer grinding out one script after another while calculating the number of words equal to the rent money:

"Furniture, and a hundred and thirty-seven dollars. His mother had always wanted a good dining-room table. She didn't have a maid, she said, so he ought to get her a dining room table. How many words for a dining-room table?"

Shaw's first play, Bury the Dead (1936) was an expressionist drama about a group of soldiers killed in a battle who refuse to be buried. His play Quiet City, directed by Elia Kazan and with incidental music by Aaron Copland, closed after two Sunday performances.

During the 1940s, Shaw wrote for a number of films, including The Talk of the Town (a comedy about civil liberties), The Commandos Strike at Dawn (based on a C.S. Forester story about commandos in occupied Norway) and Easy Living (about a football player unable to enter the game due to a medical condition). Shaw married Marian Edwards (daughter of well-known screen actor Snitz Edwards). They had one son, Adam Shaw, born in 1950, himself a writer of magazine articles and non-fiction.

Shaw summered at the Pine Brook Country Club, located in the countryside of Nichols, Connecticut, which became the 1936 summer home of the Group Theatre (New York), whose roster included Elia Kazan, Harold Clurman, Harry Morgan, John Garfield, Frances Farmer, Will Geer, Clifford Odets and Lee J. Cobb.

Novels and miniseries
The Young Lions, Shaw's first novel, was published in 1948. Based on his experiences in Europe during the war, the novel was very successful and was adapted into a 1958 film. Shaw was not happy with the film, feeling it soft-pedaled some of the serious issues from his book, but it did well at the box office.

In 1950 Shaw published Report on Israel, a journalistic book dealing with the situation in the state around the time of its founding with photographs by Robert Capa.

Shaw's second novel, The Troubled Air, chronicling the rise of McCarthyism, was published in 1951. He was among those who signed a petition asking the U.S. Supreme Court to review the John Howard Lawson and Dalton Trumbo convictions for contempt of Congress, resulting from hearings by the House Committee on Un-American Activities. Accused of being a communist by the Red Channels publication, Shaw was placed on the Hollywood blacklist by the movie studio bosses. In 1951 he left the United States and went to Europe, where he lived for 25 years, mostly in Paris and Switzerland. He later claimed that the blacklist "only glancingly bruised" his career. During the 1950s he wrote several more screenplays, including Desire Under the Elms (based on Eugene O'Neill's play) and Fire Down Below (about a tramp boat in the Caribbean).

While living in Europe, Shaw wrote more bestselling books, notably Lucy Crown (1956), Two Weeks in Another Town (1960), Rich Man, Poor Man (1970) (for which he would later write a less successful sequel entitled Beggarman, Thief) and Evening in Byzantium (made into a 1978 TV movie).

Rich Man, Poor Man was adapted into a highly successful ABC television miniseries with six 2-hour episodes shown for February 1 to March 15, 1976. The series ranked third in the seasonal Nielsens and garnered twenty-three Emmy nominations. A further adaptation, which Shaw had very little to do with, Rich Man, Poor Man--Book II was aired from September 21, 1976, to March 8, 1977. This was not as successful as the first. There was a third sequel Beggar Man, Thief in 1978, which belatedly included the Jordache's sister Gretchen who had been a prominent character in the original book.

His novel The Top of the Hill (1979) was made into a TV movie about the Winter Olympics at Lake Placid in 1980, starring Wayne Rogers, Adrienne Barbeau, and Sonny Bono.

His last two novels were Bread Upon the Waters (1981), a realist novel dealing with the socioeconomic conditions of 20th century New York, and Acceptable Losses (1982).

Short stories
Shaw was highly regarded as a short story author, contributing to Collier's, Esquire, The New Yorker, Playboy, The Saturday Evening Post, and other magazines; and 63 of his best stories were collected in Short Stories: Five Decades (Delacorte, 1978), reprinted in 2000 as a 784-page University of Chicago Press paperback. Among his noted short stories are: "Sailor Off The Bremen", "The Eighty-Yard Run", and "Tip On A Dead Jockey". Three of his stories ("The Girls in Their Summer Dresses", "The Monument", "The Man Who Married a French Wife") were dramatized for the PBS series Great Performances. Telecast on June 1, 1981. This production was released on DVD in 2002 by Kultur Video.

Awards
During his lifetime Shaw won a number of awards, including two O. Henry Awards, a National Institute of Arts and Letters grant, and three Playboy Awards.

Novels

 * The Young Lions (1948)
 * The Troubled Air (1951)
 * Lucy Crown (1956)
 * Two Weeks in Another Town (1960)
 * Voices of a Summer Day (1965)
 * Rich Man, Poor Man (1969/1970) (Portions of this novel first appeared in Playboy in a slightly different form.)
 * Evening in Byzantium (1973)
 * Night Work (1975)
 * Beggarman, Thief (1977)
 * The Top of the Hill (1979)
 * Bread Upon the Waters (1981)
 * Acceptable Losses (1982)

Plays

 * Bury the Dead, New York, Ethel Barrymore Theatre, April 1936.
 * Siege, New York, Longacre Theatre, December 1937.
 * The Gentle People, New York, Belasco Theatre, January 1939.
 * Quiet City New York, Belasco Theatre, March 1939.
 * Retreat to Pleasure, New York, Belasco Theatre, 1940.
 * Sons and Soldiers, New York, Morosco Theatre, May 1943.
 * The Assassin,'' New York, National Theatre, October 1945.
 * The Survivors, (with Peter Viertel) New York, Playhouse Theatre, January 1948.
 * Children From Their Games, New York, Morosco Theatre, April 1963.
 * A Choice of Wars, Glasgow, Scotland, Glasgow Citizens Theatre, 1967.

title: Irwin Shaw


text:
Ralph Hodgson

Ralph Hodgson (9 September 1871 – 3 November 1962), Order of the Rising Sun (Japanese 旭日章), was an English poet, very popular in his lifetime as an early member of the Georgian School of poets, which included Rupert Brooke, Siegfried Sassoon, Walter de la Mare, Robert Graves and A. E. Housman. He shunned overt publicity and guarded his personal life fiercely but, at the same time, was a great, sometimes exhausting talker. He kept up a copious correspondence with other poets and literary figures, especially Siegfried Sassoon, as well as people he met in his time in Japan, such as Professor Takeshi Saito. His poem The Bells of Heaven was ranked 85th in the list of Classic FM's One Hundred Favourite Poems. It reflected his deep concerns with ecological matters and with cruelty to animals. One of his closest friends was Henry Salt, for whom he wrote the anti-feather-trade poem, To Deck A Woman.

Early life
He was born in Darlington in County Durham to a coal mining father. He eschewed a conventional education, and it was claimed he ran off to America as a teenager and worked in New York as a theatre designer, but there is no proof for this. While still a youth, Hodgson developed a love for bull-mastiffs and became something of an expert in their breeding and care, writing some of his first magazine articles about them. Following his brother Walter, who was a book and magazine illustrator, to London in the late 1890s, he found work as an artist on some of the early comic papers, such as Big Budget, where he first started to sign his work with the name ‘Yorick’. He then befriended Alfred Harmsworth, who employed him as chief cartoonist on Harmsworth’s first newspaper venture, the London Evening News. He later became art editor of C. B. Fry's Weekly Magazine of Sports and Out-of-Door Life. His first poetry collection, The Last Blackbird and Other Lines, appeared in 1907.

Poet and publisher
In 1912 he founded a small press, At the Sign of the Flying Fame, with the illustrator Claud Lovat Fraser (1890–1921) and the writer and journalist Holbrook Jackson (1874–1948). It published most of his popular poetry including The Bull, Eve and The Mystery. In the immediate pre-War years he presided over a luncheon table at Eustace Miles vegetarian Café where he befriended Enid Bagnold.

Hodgson received the Edmond de Polignac Prize in 1914, for a musical setting of The Song of Honour, and was included in the Georgian Poetry anthologies. The flying Fame press became inactive in 1914 as World War I broke out and he and Lovat joined the armed forces. Hodgson served first in the Royal Navy and then the Army, manning anti-aircraft guns on the East Coast of England. His poetic reputation was established by the collection Poems (1917).

His first wife Mary Janet (née Chatteris) whom he’d married in 1896 died in 1920. He then married Muriel Fraser (divorced 1932). Shortly after that he accepted an invitation to teach English at Tohoku University in Sendai, Japan. In 1933 he married Lydia Aurelia Bolliger, an American missionary and teacher working in Sendai.

Hodgson had joined Edmund Blunden in Japan and the two established a close friendship during the time Blunden was writing Undertone of War. Also in Japan, Hodgson worked, almost anonymously, as part of the committee that translated the great collection of Japanese classical poetry, the Man'yōshū, into English. The high quality of the published translations is almost certainly the result of his "final revision" of the texts. It was while on furlough from the Japanese University he worked at in Sendai that he met and befriended T. S. Eliot. Eliot tried in vain to persuade Hodgson to have his poetry published by Faber and also failed in an attempt to get Hodgson (whom Eliot dubbed ‘The Man In White Spats’) to illustrate Eliot's book of poems entitled Old Possum's Book of Practical Cats.

Retirement in the United States
In 1938 Hodgson left Japan and, after visiting friends in the UK including Siegfried Sassoon (they had met in 1919), he finally settled permanently in a small farmhouse with Aurelia in Minerva, Ohio. Living in Minerva, he continued working on his long poem The Muse and the Mastiff and, with the help of Seymour Adelman, set up a small publishing venture under the Flying Scroll imprint. A new collection of his work appeared in 1959, The Skylark. His Collected Poems appeared in 1961. In 1954 he was awarded the Queen's Gold Medal for Poetry. He died in Minerva in November 1962.

Settings
Arthur Bliss set some of his poems to music, as did John Dankworth and Cleo Laine.

Quotes
"Some things have to be believed to be seen." "The handwriting on the wall may be a forgery." "Time, you old gypsy man, will you not stay, put up your caravan just for one day?" "Did anyone ever have a boring dream?"

title: Ralph Hodgson


text:
Talk:Quilt

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Jannekenls.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 07:38, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

MAQS
Please see MAQS - The Museum of the American Quilter's Society
 * Quinobi 08:50, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

American vs. British English
I see "compostannie" changed "wadding" to "batting", saying that wadding was incorrect term. In fact, the British sewing books I have use the term wadding. So it is not wrong. Likewise, words such as muslin and calico have different definitions in British English vs. American English usage.

Merging of Art quilt article
Discussion:
 * MERGE: Its totally mergeable, probably verbatim. The Quilt article will improve and be more interesting.  Removal of the Art quilt article, and redirection to Quilt, will not suffer readership.  --SFDan 05:03, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Regarding merging the 'Comforter' and 'Quilt' articles: I'm not sure this would be a good idea ... Are all comforters quilted? I thought not (but may be incorrect). Hh 19:28, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

 * These two articles should not be merged. A comforter is typically not quilted and is primarily used for decoration not warmth. -Nv8200p talk 03:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC)

 * do not merge NV8200p is exactly right.  Cornell Rockey 14:54, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Quilting vs Knotting or Tying.
Nowadays the meaning of Quilt has gotten rather blurred. As I learned it, a Quilt is two pieces of fabric with batting between them secured by sewing through all layers in a pattern. If you knot or tie it's not a Quilt, even if the top is pieced or appliqued. The term Quilt refers to the technique of sewing, not to the item. Quilted Comforter or Quilted Spread would be a more exact description, as would Knotted or Tied Comforter. Still, the term has gotten so blurry that it's no good trying to fix things. "Aids Quilt" is easier to say that Aids Memorial Fabric Artwork.--Saxophobia 18:15, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Art Quilt Links
I thought that the Quilt National and QuiltArt links were good balances for the other links in that they have galleries of contemporary, often non-traditional quilts which demonstrate some of what is happening in the "art quilt" world. In addition, the QuiltArt pages contain galleries of individual artists' works and a long-standing archive of messages from an active community.

I guess I don't understand the presence of the Vermont Quilt Festival but not the International Quilt Festival or other large quilt shows in the UK or Japan (the Tokyo International Great Quilt Festival for example has about 250K visitors at recent shows). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mbquilts (talk • contribs) 18:07, 8 October 2006.

 * You are right, there isn't really a good reason to have the Vermont Quilt Festival link either - I've removed it. We've still got rather too many external links here - see WP:EL for guidelines. It is not correct to include links to sites that happen to be related to quilts and quilting. Idealy, as much information as possible should be included in the article, but it is valid to include links to material that can't be incorporated for copyright reasons, or which provide useful, non-commercial further reading or background that goes beyond the appropriate scope of an encyclopedia article. -- Solipsist 18:24, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

List of people in quilting
I have tagged this section for cleanup of external links. A few issues: See WP:LINKS for further info. Maralia 03:04, 15 July 2007 (UTC) Marie D. Webster (1859-1956) is a woman who was born in Marion, Indiana the eldest of six children. After the age of 50, she took up quilting when it enjoyed a revival at the turn of the century. According to a short biography written by her granddaughter, Rosalind Webster Perry, in Quilts; Their Story and How to Make Them, Marie didn't take to the geometrical patterns of the time so she cut out and fashioned her own patterns based on flowers and other designs. Eventually she published her patterns, sold them in what we would now call a "cottage industry" in pre-made kits. She also wrote for magazines and she wrote the book mentioned before. She researched the history of quilting extensively and has long been considered the foremost authority on the history of quilting.
 * the persons listed should meet notability requirements
 * links within the body of an article should be internal (wikipedia) links; external website links belong in an External links section
 * articles should not contain links to sites that primarily exist to sell products or services

In recent years, the house in Marion, IN where she grew up has been restored and turned into a museum in her honor. There is a website to give details for this museum. Also, The Indianapolis Museum of Art en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indianapolis_Museum_of_Art owns several of her original quilts in its collection and exhibits them periodically. There are at least two books of her patterns that have been published. Together, they include all her known published patterns. Unfortunately, at least one is out of print. Her granddaughter, Rosalind Perry, owns the copyrights and may be planning to publish them again. Main source material: book-- Quilts: Their Story and How to Make Them, by Marie D. Webster; New Edition of America's First Quilt Book with a biography of the author by Rosalind Webster Perry;  Practical Patchwork, PO Box 30065, Santa Barbara, CA, 1990.Zjrosner (talk) 02:37, 8 September 2012 (UTC)

Emotions section
This says: "Quilts focused on the September 11, 2001 attacks have particularly explored grief and anger". Without being insensitive, I can't for the life of me see how a quilt can do this. I can get how a poem or a piece of drama, or even a painting, might convey these sorts of emotions, but sewn-together patches of fabric in an abstract pattern? Can this section be expanded to explain how these quilts manage to do this? As it is, it just sounds like pseudish, artsy nonsense. Cheers, Neale Neale Monks 17:55, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * For anyone who wants to take on the task of expanding the section, [ http://www.amazon.com/America-Heart-Quilters-Remember-September/dp/1571201459 this book] would be a good resource, documenting a special exhibition at IQF in Houston. Neale's reaction shows why a major expansion of the Art Quilt section is in order, if someone thinks a painting can convey something a quilt can't. :) --Fabrictramp 18:55, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

I can provide three very good examples of how a quilt can help someone express and even exorcise grief and anger. I was in a quilt group, a "bee" with about 8 other women when I was a fairly new quilter. At one gathering, a lady told about a recent trip she took with her family and they experienced a terrible airplane ride. It really disturbed her so when she got home, she made a wall hanging out of orange and black fabrics with cut outs of people sewn down and jagged black lines across the quilt and a plane flying all crooked. It was a visually jarring quilt and portrayed her trauma quite well!

The second example comes from a visitor to the bee who heard this woman's story. She told of going through a stormy divorce because her husband "replaced her with a newer model." She was so angry at him that she had a hard time even getting any enjoyment from her quilting, so she decided to make a "Mad" quilt. My memory now fails me as to what all she put into the design, but I think it was things that represented their marriage and maybe attributes about his new girlfriend. She fantasized about driving over them with her truck, but knew she never really would. So after she was finished with the quilt, she took it outside on the driveway, painted her truck's front tire black and ran over the quilt instead! The tire marks became part of the design of the quilt and she said it made her feel so much better. She got laughs every time she told the story.

The third example is so obvious you're going to smack your forehead when I remind you of the AIDS Quilt Project that is ongoing and growing on an international level. It is an opportunity for the family and friends of those victims of AIDS to grieve and memorialize their loved ones in tangible fabric. It has been a source of grieving and healing for those who have made quilts and others who have come to see the quilts when they are displayed in travelling exhibits. Zjrosner (talk) 20:25, 7 September 2012 (UTC)

Quilting techniques
Shouldn't that section be removed with the main added to the top of the techniques section? Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:51, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

China section
I will add a section I just added to Quilting. I may be removed there because quilting involves sewing. So, the section will exist at both articles for a while, and removed from one by those who know best (not me). Anna Frodesiak (talk) 13:51, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

Cleanup
Why and where does this article need to be cleaned up? How should it be cleaned up? Hyacinth (talk) 07:24, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
 * The sections are kind of wonky. Anna Frodesiak (talk) 09:15, 1 April 2012 (UTC)
 * I was surprised to not see footnotes, though I'm newish to WP. And I wondered, shouldn't techniques include ordinary piecing, too? Tlqk56 (talk) 14:54, 19 July 2012 (UTC)

Amish Quilts
edited to reflect recent scholarship on Amish quilts, including the importance of the Amish quilt industry and consumer demand. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jannekenls (talk • contribs) 18:01, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Draft of a short piece using literary conventions
Draft of a short piece using literary convention 2001:4456:C74:AB00:C522:7C6F:8D0F:8082 (talk) 03:52, 1 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Quilt


text:
Anthocharis gruneri

Anthocharis gruneri (Grüner's orange tip) is a butterfly found mainly in Turkey, Transcaucasian Mountains, Asia Minor and the Armenian highlands.

Description in Seitz
"A. gruneri H.-Sch. from Greece, Southern Turkey, and Asia Minor, is smaller than cardamines,but otherwise similar: the black apical markings broader in the male, the ground-colour of the upperside strongly yellowish. — armeniaca Christ. from Asia Minor and Mesopotamia, is more whitish above, and the orange-red apical patch proximally dark-edged. ab. homogena is an intermediate form. — Near Angora flies diluta form, nov. [Röber], which is distinguished by the less developed greenish markings of the underside of the hindwing, and in the female, besides, by the dark apex of the forewing being almost completely without markings. — In Syria, where this insect does not appear to be plentiful, there occurs a special form : small, upperside pure white , orange patch reduced , reaching only to the black median spot and having no dark proximal edge; underside of hindwing with much extended white markings ; we [Röber] propose for this form the name eros".

Subspecies

 * Anthocharis gruneri gruneri Greece, Asia Minor, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Transcaucasia
 * Anthocharis gruneri armeniaca Christoph, 1893 Armenia highlands
 * Anthocharis gruneri macedonica (Buresch, 1921) Macedonia
 * Anthocharis gruneri parnassi (Bernardi, 1970)
 * Anthocharis gruneri fereiduni (Carbonell et Back, 2009) Southwest Iran
 * Anthocharis gruneri eros (Röber, 1907) Syria
 * Anthocharis gruneri zamanii Naderi et Back, 2019 Southeast Iran

Habitat
In Armenia A. gruneri inhabits semi-deserts, juniper woodlands, and arid mountain steppes at elevations from 400 to about 2000 m a.s.l.

title: Anthocharis gruneri


text:
Talk:Penile cancer

Broadcast media have never presented a story about penile cancer
Prove me wrong. Is is it due to some sort of fear that it will upset a predominantly female audience?Godofredo29 (talk) 00:49, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

A place to start would perhaps be the case of Francisco Castaneda, an individual from El Salvador who was detained by by the U.S. Immigration autorities. When it became apparent that he had penile cancer, the autorities began shuttling him around to different facilities so as to avoid treatment of his condition. When they could no longer avoid the issue, it was too late and his penis was amputated--on a Valentine's Day if you can believe it. Before Mr. Castaneda died he was able to testify before a House committee, telling his wrenching story. After his death, his family was awarded about $1.5 million dollars.99.109.50.48 (talk) 23:50, 15 May 2013 (UTC)

AMA and RACP on circumcision and penile cancer
The American Medical Association and the Royal Australasian College of Physicians say the use of infant circumcision to prevent penile cancer in adult men is not justified. DanBlackham 08:54, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * "Nevertheless, because this disease is rare and occurs later in life, the use of circumcision as a preventive practice is not justified." -- American Medical Association. Neonatal Circumcision. Dec 1999.
 * "Penile cancer is a rare disease with an incidence of around 1 per 100,000 in developed countries. Even though the evidence suggests neonatal circumcision may reduce the risk ten-fold, the rarity of the condition is such that universal circumcision is clearly not justified on these grounds." -- The Royal Australasian College of Physicians. Policy Statement On Circumcision. Sep 2002.

So? Williamb 09:00, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The fact that the AMA and RACP say circumcision is not justified to prevent penile cancer helps to put the following sentence from the article in proper perspective. "It is established that childhood circumcision reduces the incidence of penile cancer." -- DanBlackham 09:27, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * In the US the stats are 1:100,000 across the general population and 1:600 among the uncircumcised. The AMA's opinion was that to address the risk of penile cancer alone circumcision is not justifed. That is fine and should be included. Now why did you tamper with the stats? The next question would be why Theresa aided and abetted this act by reverting to your edit?~It is just gets stranger and stranger. - Friends of Robert 03:39, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Just a heads up here, guys. The correct term to use here is non-consensual circumcision.Godofredo29 (talk) 17:46, 1 March 2015 (UTC)

" Indeed, the incidence of penile cancer has been reported to be falling in uncircumcised men. In a recent study, a decreasing penile cancer rate of 0.82/100 000 was found in Denmark (where circumcision is uncommon) compared with an incidence of 1/100 000 in the USA " Theresa Knott  (The torn steak) 05:23, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Penile cancer is rare
Penile cancer is rare according to the following organizations: In my opinioin article should include a sentence that says penile cancer is rare in developed countries. -- DanBlackham 22:53, 30 Sep 2004 (UTC) The above quotes from the American Cancer Society, American Academy of Pediatrics, American Medical Association, and The Royal Australasian College of Physicians all say that penile cancer is rare. Statements made by those organizations deserve to be included in the article, especially when they all agree. -- DanBlackham 09:10, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * American Cancer Society: "Penile cancer is very rare in North America and Europe."
 * American Academy of Pediatrics: "Cancer of the penis is a rare disease; the annual age-adjusted incidence of penile cancer is 0.9 to 1.0 per 100 000 males in the United States. In countries where the overwhelming majority of men are uncircumcised, the rate of penile cancer varies from 0.82 per 100 000 in Denmark to 2.9 to 6.8 per 100 000 in Brazil93 and 2.0 to 10.5 per 100 000 in India."
 * American Medical Association: "Penile cancer is a rare disease in the United States (0.9 to 1 per 100,000)."
 * The Royal Australasian College of Physicians: "Carcinoma of the penis is a rare condition, with an annual incidence of approximately 1:100,000 men in developed countries, regardless of whether there is a high or a low circumcision rate."
 * Show us the cite then we can see if it deserves to be included. - Friends of Robert 03:39, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Citation [6] is not valid, it should be removed. The American Cancer Society simply states that the incidence of penile cancer in developing countries is much higher without offering any sources of evidence. Mohammed Azeem of England (talk) 13:41, 17 March 2013 (UTC)

The Royal Australasian College of Physicians policy on circumcision
Robert added the word "alone" to the following sentence.
 * "The American Medical Association and the Royal Australasian College of Physicians say the use of infant circumcision to prevent penile cancer alone in adult men is not justified."

However in my opinion the following quotes from The Royal Australasian College of Physicians Policy Statement On Circumcision do not support that addition. DanBlackham 09:10, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * "After extensive review of the literature the RACP reaffirms that there is no medical indication for routine male circumcision." (emphasis in original document)
 * "The possibility that routine circumcision may contravene human rights has been raised because circumcision is performed on a minor and is without proven medical benefit."
 * "Review of the literature in relation to risks and benefits shows there is no evidence of benefit outweighing harm for circumcision as a routine procedure."

Incidence rate in uncircumcised men
Both the American Medical Association and the Canadian Paediatric Society say the annual incidence rate of penile cancer in uncircumcised men in the United States is 2.2 in 100,000 not 1 in 600. Both the AMA and CPS cite the article by Kochen and McCurdy to support the 2.2 in 100,000 figure. DanBlackham 09:52, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * American Medical Association: "Among uncircumcised men the incidence is estimated to be 2.2/100,000."
 * Canadian Paediatric Society: "Among uncircumcised men in the United States, the incidence rate is 2.2 per 100 000 per year."
 * Kochen M, McCurdy S. Circumcision and the risk of cancer of the penis. A life-table analysis. Am J Dis Child. 1980;134:484-486.

 * In February 1996, representatives of the American Cancer Society stated in a letter to the American Academy of Pediatrics:
 * "The American Cancer Society does not consider routine circumcision to be a valid or effective measure to prevent such [genital] cancers. Research suggesting a pattern in the circumcision status of partners of women with cervical cancer is methodologically flawed, outdated and has not been taken seriously in the medical community for decades."
 * Due to dozens of such statements, I removed the inaccurate statement that the ACS says lack of circumcision is a cause.Mzmadmike 18:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Due to dozens of such statements, I removed the inaccurate statement that the ACS says lack of circumcision is a cause.Mzmadmike 18:45, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Did you read the abstract of Kochen/McCurdy? Seeing is believing. Then a brain teaser for you. The CPS gives the hint. What is the difference between 1:100,000 and 1:100,000 per year? - Friends of Robert 17:08, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Why I removed the 1 in 600 quote
We can't put a one in 600 whole of lifetime figure next to an annual incidence rate in the article. It is misleading in the extreme because to a casual reader who may well not pick up on Robert Brooke's little brainteaser above it looks as if circumcising drastically reduced the incidence of penile cancer. I've removed it from the article for now. If someone wants to add it back in in such a way as to make it crystal clear that the two figures cannot be directly compared then I won't redelete it. Theresa Knott (The torn steak) 17:30, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Boy, am I glad that you are starting to show some sensitivity towards how information may be interpreted by laymen readers who can not pick up the nuances. How I wish that you would apply that to other articles where you insist upon inserting or allowing the insertion of POV pushing material. I would like you to now reconsider your pushing of the link to NORM (as a sort of free advert) in the Frenulum article (and much more). You have now proved that you have this sensitivity and to fail to apply this elsewhere will serve to prove your bias. - Friends of Robert 03:59, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * As to the edit. I am not happy that you wish to delete a fact from Wikipedia. This is tantamount to deliberately concealing the truth. This is naughty. If you are are worried about (as you obviously are) that the lack of circumcision is recognised as increasing the risk of Invasive Penile Cancer (IPC) that is not grounds for censoring an article. I will relook at the word order to make sure the facts are clearly stated but take into account your horror at the the thought that people may find out the the presence of a foreskin is a specific health risk. - Friends of Robert 03:59, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

"Specifically in the United States the lifetime risk of an uncircumcised man for developing invasive penile cancer (IPC) is one in 600, which is several times higher than for males neonatally circumcised"

 * This isn't good enough. We need the actual lifetime risk for a circumcised man. I can't see it in the source Robert Brookes cited. Theresa Knott (The torn steak) 07:33, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Isn't good enough for whom? I sincerely hope that this heralds a change in approach from you in so far as you will now start to show similar consistency to the "other" side of the debate. Now if you don't ... what would that tell us? - Friends of Robert 09:08, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Just cite the source for circumcised men and it'll stay. How hard is that? (No pun intended) Mike H 09:14, Oct 2, 2004 (UTC)
 * Hi Mike. Congrats on your recent appointment as an admin. Do us a favour and keep an eye on Theresa will you? There appears to be a genuine problem with bias there. Hard work is needed to knock these circumcision related articles into shape. Oh yes ... added a few cites. - Friends of Robert 09:27, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Keeping things in perspective
In my opinion the fact that the American Cancer Society estimates that in 2003 twice as many men in the United States died from male breast cancer (400) as died from penile cancer (200) helps the article to keep things in perspective. -- DanBlackham 10:36, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Objectively, it makes it sound like penile cancer is less important than male breast cancer. Mike H 10:45, Oct 2, 2004 (UTC)
 * Is the insertion of this gem of information designed to make the 200 or so uncircumcised men who are to die in the US every year feel better? Or is it a desperate attempt to play down the fact that there is an increased risk for uncircumcised men of developing invasive penile cancer? The test will no doubt be the content of other cancer related articles inserted before this issue arose here where it was "found" necessary to place the incidence of a particular cancer in context with others as is being suggested here. - Friends of Robert 11:28, 2 Oct 2004 (UTC)

evidence
There should be a list of signs and symptoms associated with penile cancer on this page. Scorpionman 12:51, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

 * In particular, is a freckle on the glans a cancer symptom? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.3.11.167 (talk) 20:00, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

 * More along the lines of sores and redness...are they necessarily a symptom or could they be something else too? Scorpionman (talk) 14:58, 29 August 2009 (UTC)

Cleanup
This article is messy, particularly the Risk section. It looks ridiculous to have 6 or 7 sources cited for one sentence, and to have sentences contradicting each other and with the same information being repeated several times. This article should not be a verbatim record of a debate. It should represent a synthesis of the available reliable sources, presenting opposing arguments without undue weight. -- Donald Albury 11:47, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Risk
The risk section should be changed as it devotes all of the space to circumcision then ends with a statement saying that circumcision isn't the main factor.Tremello22 (talk) 23:30, 20 June 2008 (UTC)

An alternative staging system has been proposed
Heyns CF, van Vollenhoven P, Steenkamp JW, Allen FJ, van Velden DJ. Carcinoma of the penis--appraisal of a modified tumour-staging system. Br J Urol. 1997 Aug;80(2):307-12.Links

Department of Urology, University of Stellenbosch and Tygerberg Hospital, Cape Town, South Africa.

OBJECTIVE: To evaluate variables for the prediction of lymph node metastases in carcinoma of the penis, using a recently proposed modified tumour-staging system that combines the histological degree of differentiation and extent of local invasion of the primary tumour. PATIENTS AND METHODS: Thirty-five patients with squamous carcinoma of the penis and histo- or cytological staging of the inguinal lymph nodes were reviewed. A clinical TNM staging system was used in which the size (diameter) of the primary tumour and the clinical extent of invasion were considered. Subsequently, the tumours were also staged according to a modified T-system in which the histological degree of differentiation and pathological extent of tumour invasion were combined. RESULTS: Penectomy was performed in 34 patients (partial amputation in 20 and radical penectomy in 17). Inguinal lymphadenectomy was performed in 31 patients and in four the presence of lymph node metastases was confirmed by aspiration cytology. Using the clinical TNM staging system, lymph node metastases were histo- or cytologically present in no patients with T1, in five of 19 with T2, in 10 of 13 with T3 and in both patients with T4 tumours. Lymph node metastases were present in two of eight patients without clinically palpable inguinal nodes, in three of 14 with nodes clinically thought to be infective and in 11 of 12 nodes clinically considered to be malignant. Lymph node metastases were present in five of 17 patients with grade 1, in nine of 13 with grade 2 and in three of five with grade 3 tumours. Using the modified histological T-staging system (T1 = grade 1-2, invasive through dermis; T2 = any grade, invasion of corpus spongiosum or cavernosum; T3 = any grade, invasion of urethra; T4 = grade 3, regardless of invasion) lymph node metastases were present in one of nine patients with T1, in eight of 16 with T2, in all five with T3 and in three of five with T4 tumours. CONCLUSION: The modified T-staging system, which combines histological differentiation with pathological extent of invasion, provided the best predictive distinction between T1 and T2-4 tumours, indicating that lymphadenectomy can be avoided in T1 tumours, but should be performed in all patients with T2-4 tumours. We recommend bilateral inguinal lymphadenectomy 6-8 weeks after penectomy in such patients.

Lack of circumcision as a risk factor
MurasakiSunshine has again removed lack of circumcision as a risk factor, claiming "Promoting lack of circumcision as a risk factor is like promoting lack of mastectomy as a risk factor for breast cancer or lack of appendectomy is a risk factor for appendicitis".

The meaning of this is unclear, but it appears to be that MurasakiSunshine disagrees that it's a risk factor. The important question, though, is what WP:RS say on the subject. I've just searched the PubMed database for "penile cancer risk factor", limiting results to reviews. On the first page alone I found multiple papers identifying lack of circumcision as a risk factor: "the risk factors most strongly associated with penile cancer are lack of neonatal circumcision..." "Men circumcised in childhood/adolescence are at substantially reduced risk of invasive penile cancer" "The author reviews several major investigations from the past 35 years and finds that men with certain risk factors (eg, intact foreskin..." "neonatal circumcision reduces the relative risk for the disease" It is difficult to think of a justification for excluding it. Jakew (talk) 17:04, 22 March 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved by Metropolitan90. As the relister, I was not 100% sure that a title had been agreed upon, other than the fact that the current title needed to be changed. However, since this moved has been performed, consensus must have been clearer than I had originally seen. (non-admin closure) Steel1943  (talk) 04:48, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

Carcinoma of the penis → Penile cancer – Penile cancer is actually a much more common name for this condition (see http://scholar.google.com), especially in recent publications. I do not understand why it was renamed to the current title in 2006. --Relisted. Steel1943 (talk) 04:26, 7 November 2013 (UTC) Ruslik_ Zero  19:04, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * The MeSH term is "Penile Neoplasm", ICD-10 calls it "malignant neoplasm" or "carcinoma in situ" depending, the American Cancer Society's general term is "Penile Cancer". Not sure what the clear direction is here... will notify WP:MEDICINE.   19:20, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Wouldn't carcinoma of the penis be a type of penile cancer? Assume there are other types of malignancy that can occur on/in the penis, although probably v rare, sarcomas etc. Having said that, if carcinoma is by far the most common penile cancer, then support rename to the more general term, although a short section delineating other rare types would be then be needed. Lesion  ( talk ) 23:49, 30 October 2013 (UTC)
 * It appears that practically all penile cancers are carcinomas. Rare exceptions are melanomas and sarcomas. Ruslik_ Zero 19:40, 31 October 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree and per the comment above, the rarer variants of cancer (sarcoma, etc.) should also be noted. LT910001 (talk) 00:16, 2 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Ruslik0 kindly added some notes about the rarer types I understand. Looks like this move is OK to go ahead now. Lesion  ( talk ) 12:18, 4 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Agree as long as everybody understands that we're not only just changing the title of the article with this move, but we're actually expanding the scope of this article to no longer cover just carcinoma of the penis but all forms of penile cancer. That's fine.  If/when at some point in the future we have enough content covering one of the penile cancer subtypes to break off into its own article, we'll do it at that time in a manner compliant with WP:SUMMARY.    13:40, 4 November 2013 (UTC)

I know this is not a numbers thing, but I think we have a non controversial move here since 4 (including nominator) have supported, and the other editor involved has not objected... I shall speedy penile cancer in preparation of the move again. Lesion ( talk ) 22:50, 7 November 2013 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

removed "lowest rate of penile cancer is in Israel"

reason- no citation. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 188.162.64.14 (talk) 16:16, 24 June 2017 (UTC)

Penile Cancer medical student updates
Hello, we are a group of medical students editing this page as part of our class assignment. We have compiled a list of suggestions to improve this article and would appreciate community feedback before we proceed with these edits. Here is a list of our suggestions:

1. Signs and symptoms
We propose to modify Signs and Symptoms. Our proposed paragraph is as follows: “Penile cancer can present as redness and irritation on the penis with a skin thickening on the glans or inner foreskin or an ulcerative, outward growing (exophytic) or “finger-like” (papillary) growth[1][2]. Penile cancer may accompany penile discharge with or without difficulty or burning or tingling while urinating (dysuria) and bleeding from the penis[1][2].”

We noticed the original point form presentation is clunky and reads as a required list rather than inclusive. Citation 5 is a dead link, citation 6 is a general link to Cancer Research UK. Although cancer research UK may be an appropriate source for Wiki WP:MEDRS it is improperly linked. We propose to remove the following: "•	Redness of the penis[5] •	Rash on the penis[5][6] •	Foul smelling discharge from the penis[5][6] •	Pain in the penis[5] •	Growth or sore on the penis that doesn't heal within four weeks (may look like a wart, ulcer, or blister), may or may not be painful[6] •	Bleeding from the penis or from under the foreskin[6] •	Change in color of the penis[6] •	Phimosis[6]”

ref name="1"></ref CreateAccountUsernameHelpmechooseConfirm (talk) 00:53, 24 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for these suggestions. Do you mind adding the citations using the tool that we used in class? It is fine for the talk page, but please practice for Monday so that you can do it properly in the actual Wikipedia article while editing. Great work so far!JenOttawa (talk) 04:46, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Please note the placement of your citations, after the punctuation, not before! I know this is a little picky, we are definitely not marking these types of things, but when you edit on Monday please keep this in mind in order that the final Wikipedia article is formatted correctly. It should look like this after it is added via the citation tool, with no spaces.[1][2]JenOttawa (talk) 14:03, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * If you plan to re-use your citation more than once in the article: When you add your references while editing the actual article, you can see the options "automatic Manual Re-use". The first time you add the citation (if it is not already used in an article, click "automatic" and add your PMID, DOI, or website, then click "generate" to fill the template. The second time you want to use the same citation in an article, click "re-use" and search for your citation in the list. This adds in the a,b,c versus duplicating the citation in the list. If possible, practice this in your sandbox before editing live on Monday. Thanks again!JenOttawa (talk) 14:08, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

2.Treatment
The current information about radiation therapy in the “Treatment” section of the Wikipedia page inaccurately discusses the use of radiation therapy during different stages of penile cancer. Therefore, it is proposed that the sentence discussing radiation therapy in the article be changed/replaced with a sentence providing specific, accurate details as to how radiation therapy is used in clinical practice.

Proposed change: “Adjuvant radiation therapy is recommended for treating late-stage penile cancer, such as when it has spread to nearby structures like the internal chambers of the penis, scrotum, pubic bone, and the prostate.[reference # here]”

This will replace the sentence in the “Treatment” section of the Wikipedia article discussing adjuvant radiation therapy: "Radiation therapy is usually used adjuvantly with surgery to reduce the risk of recurrence. With earlier stages of penile cancer, a combination of topical chemotherapy and less invasive surgery may be used. More advanced stages of penile cancer usually require a combination of surgery, radiation and chemotherapy."

Additionally, we propose to insert the following content into the Treatment section: (user: 12ns59) Proposed change: “Treatment of penile cancer will vary depending on the clinical stage of the tumor at the time of diagnosis. The gold standard for treatment of primary penile tumors is surgical removal.”

The citation to be added to this section is: Engelsgjerd, J. S., & LaGrange, C. A. (2020). Penile Cancer. In StatPearls. StatPearls Publishing.

Rationale: Treatment of penile cancer depends on the stage of the tumour and this should be directly emphasized at the very start of the treatment section. Additionally, we did not notice any citations in this section so adding a secondary source will improve credibility. Thank you. We appreciate your time and welcome any feedback or suggestions. Symonds.n (talk) 16:51, 3 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Hi! Please add all your citations (textbook included) using the tools that we practiced in class. Does your book have a ISBN? Also, if page #s are available from the text book (not all are), please include the page numbers of where you found the evidence. If you are unsure please reach out and/or practice in your sandbox!JenOttawa (talk) 04:46, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

3. Diagnosis
Finally, the Diagnosis section does not currently include any information on what tests are used to confirm the presence of penile cancer in patients. Therefore, we propose to insert the following statement into the Diagnosis section:

Proposed change: "The International Society of Urological Pathology (ISUP) recommends the use of p16INK4A immunostaining for the diagnosis and classification of HPV-related penile cancer."

</ref Lebrongoated (talk) 01:41, 5 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for sharing this. your group is doing well. Please add this citation using the tool (paste your PMID/DOI and click "generate" so it is formatted wiki style.JenOttawa (talk) 04:46, 5 December 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Penile cancer