text:
Talk:Great white shark

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Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 22:41, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Breaching behaviour details inaccurate
The section on Breacing Behaviour cites Chris Fallows as the person to first document breaching behaviour in False Bay. It is widely known that Rob Lawrence was also on this historic trip and they were both partners in the use of decoy towing to encourage breaching in False Bay. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ricardoeliaslacombe (talk • contribs) 12:02, 24 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Thanks, updated the page accordingly. --Stefan talk 07:20, 18 April 2012 (UTC)

Edit request Add to information about the great white harvested on August 31,2011
He was released on October 25, off the coast of Santa Barbara by the aquarium's animal care staff. Based on the shark's behavior and condition prior to release, the Aquarium's white shark team had every confidence that he would do well back in the wild, and that the release would be a success. He appeared to be doing well before the release team lost sight of him as he swam away. However, according to data from an electronic tracking tag, he died soon afterward.

From the Monterrey bay aquarium website.

Candyxvi (talk) 07:58, 27 May 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 12 July 2012
Update information accordingly with what reported in the information source.

Since the year 2000 there have been a total of 66 unprovoked great white shark attacks, with 14 of these attacks being fatal. Since the year 1990 there have been a total of 139 unprovoked great white shark attacks, with 29 of these attacks being fatal.
 * OLD***
 * NEW***

203.176.108.99 (talk) 05:15, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

 * Yes check.svg Done (and simplified the wording a bit). Rivertorch (talk) 09:25, 12 July 2012 (UTC)

Incorrect Date for Great White Shark Caught Off Coast of Prince Edward Island
The year quoted in the article is 1988 but the correct year is 1983. http://www.jawshark.com/great_white_recorded_sizes.html, actually quotes two years in their article the first, and correct one, being 1983 and the second as 1988. Other sources: http://www.geerg.ca/shark_white.html http://new-brunswick.net/new-brunswick/sharks/species/greatwhite.html http://www.marinebiodiversity.ca/shark/english/facts.htm http://www.elasmo-research.org/publications/pdfs/COSEWIC%20Status%20Report%20on%20White%20Shark_April%202005.pdf http://publications.gc.ca/collections/Collection/CW69-14-507-2006E.pdf http://www.bookofeverything.com/website/docs/PEIBOE_NaturalWorld.pdf

All of the above sources cite 1983 as the correct year.Optimus past my Prime (talk) 21:31, 31 August 2012 (UTC)

 * But the sharks these sources tell about seem to be different from this shark. You can not be sure.-- Sainsf <^> Talk all words 09:58, 2 September 2012 (UTC)

Introduction
The last sentence is a complete non sequitor, Jaws never makes the argument or even really insinuates that humans are the preferred prey of great whites. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.218.249.191 (talk) 18:38, 19 December 2012 (UTC)
 * No, but it does insinuate that Great Whites actively hunt humans. douts (talk) 20:30, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

The cited source does not support the premise that Great Whites never actively hunt humans. In fact, it mentions 108 times that Great Whites attacked humans on the Pacific coast of the United States. No where in Jaws is it suggested that this is an ordinary Great White displaying typical behavior. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.218.249.191 (talk) 17:09, 5 February 2013 (UTC)
 * The issue with Jaws is that anyone with only basic general knowledge about great whites could be misled into believing that they actively hunt humans. In fact the film is one of the main reasons for the stigma around sharks in general which marine scientists are still trying to rectify. So the sentence about Jaws should defo stay in the article. douts (talk) 19:32, 5 February 2013 (UTC)

That would be fine if it was changed to say 'in reality, Great Whites have attacked humans 108 times on the Pacific coast of the United States' so that it actually reflects the cited source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.218.249.191 (talk) 15:35, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Lengths are quoted in metres to 3 digits precision when the source material only gives them (in feet) to 2 digits. The metric units should be rounded to have no greater precision (2 digits max.) than the original units had. Even better would be to reference a source in metres, since the units in feet are likely already approximate. (Indeed the reverse conversion back to feet also over-quotes precision: the source articles give lengths in feet, while the wikipedia article gives them in feet and inches). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.6.112.186 (talk) 12:41, 28 August 2016 (UTC)

Adding new white-shark policy from Australia
Good morning,

I thought it might be useful for the latest Australian Government White Shark recovery plan to be included in the conservation section

Old: Australia's population of great whites was revealed in a study published on July 7, 2012 was revealed to be two separate populations separated by the Bass Strait into eastern and western populations, and may require regional protection. [86]

New: Australia's population of great whites was revealed in a study published on July 7, 2012 was revealed to be two separate populations separated by the Bass Strait into eastern and western populations, and may require regional protection. [86] In 2013, the Australian government made a new Recovery Plan for the White Shark ( Carcharodon carcharias). The plan considers the conservation requirements of the species across its Australian range and identifies the actions to be taken to ensure the species' long-term viability in nature and the parties that will undertake those actions. This is a revision of the 2002 White Shark (Carcharodon carcharias) Recovery Plan (EA, 2002) and should be read in conjunction with the 2013 Issues Paper for the White Shark (Carcharodon carcharias)(DSEWPaC, 2013). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.7.63.177 (talk) 00:41, 16 August 2013 (UTC)

 * Yes check.svg Done (I omitted the provided text as it was copied verbatim from the government website, but expanded on the suggestion to create an entire section on Australian great white shark conservation status.) Librarywild (talk) 20:35, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

No natural predators
Its known that Orcas prey on White Pointers. I believe this needs to be addressed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.111.164.108 (talk) 07:20, 23 November 2013 (UTC)
 * Can you provide a reliable source for this information so that it can be incorporated into the article. Thanks XFEM Skier (talk) 07:42, 23 November 2013 (UTC)

Feb 2024, They have another predator, the cookie-cutter shark https://www.nationalgeographic.com/science/article/what-bit-this-great-white-shark-a-cookie-cutter

583118755 (linked seemingly contradictory statements)
Erm, why would you link them, they were separate sentences and didn't contradict, it's perfectly possible for the shark most responsible for unprovoked attacks on humans to also not have humans as one of its preferred prey species, your edit has made them sound contradictory. If you just drop the and, you're probably ok, "shark, and of all shark species, the great white", or you can just revert. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.8.220.119 (talk) 18:52, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

"swam"
it should be "swam" here: ...a great white with a satellite tag was found to have immediately submerged to a depth of 500 m (1,600 ft) and swam to Hawaii.[59] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.136.239.87 (talk) 22:44, 1 January 2014 (UTC)

Opinion/Soapbox under "Reproduction"
The section on "Reproduction" closes with the following statement:

"If the Sea of Cortez is such a breeding ground, it is imperative that the area's laws be better enforced to ensure the survival of the breeding population."

This seems to me like opinion or advocacy (WP:NOTSOAPBOX). Would a more experienced editor care to comment? JeffBuckles (talk) 03:25, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

I agree. This sentence should be removed.

Lifespan
Please update article to include new research on lifespan, Great Whites can live to 70 years old. Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-25655666149.241.190.125 (talk) 12:08, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Thanks.149.241.190.125 (talk) 12:08, 10 January 2014 (UTC)

Citation needed in Conservation Status
The last paragraph under the Conservation Status heading seems suspect or superfluous without any citations.

"Fishermen target many sharks for their jaws, teeth, and fins, and as game fish in general. The great white shark, however, is rarely an object of commercial fishing, although its flesh is considered valuable. If casually captured (it happens for example in some tonnare in the Mediterranean), it is misleadingly sold as smooth-hound shark."

Who considers it valuable? What is the source that says it is sold as smooth-hound, or that it is rarely an object of commercial fishing?

Babymustard (talk) 16:34, 14 April 2014 (UTC)

Great white shark population
In a recent study in California, it has been found that there are over 2,400 white sharks off the coast of california, instead of the 2013 findings that there were only 340 sharks. Someone should edit the article to reflect the new findings as soon as possible.
 * Can you provide a link to this study?XFEM Skier (talk) 07:04, 28 June 2014 (UTC)

Here is the offical study:

http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0098078

Additional link to National Geographic.

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/06/140626-great-white-shark-recovery-conservation-oceans-animals-science/

--92.109.122.240 (talk) 23:18, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Request to edit the following sentence
The great white shark is an apex predator of the seas and has no natural predators other than the Orca.[10]

While this sentence is quoting a book, the author clearly does not have an understanding of what the words "APEX PREDATOR" means as the author has contradicted the term "APEX PREDATOR" in the very sentence that he used the term.

Apex Predator = A predator with no natural predators.

The same sentence indicates that the Orca is in fact a natural predator of the Great White, thus excluding the Great White from the classification of "Apex Predator"

I suggest that the sentence be read worded to not copy the book author and instead say something like. "The great white shark is a top predator of the oceans who's only natural predator is the Orca." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Tws101 (talk • contribs) 02:21, 10 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Good point, correction made.    Joel Why? (talk) 14:23, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

The shark that was killed by orca in Farallon Islands in 1997 was an subadult only 10~13 feet long. It should be noted that fish are animals that grow throughout their lifetime,and even between the adult great white sharks,the size differences can be astronomical. The average great white shark is around 15 feet long,which is far larger than the 10-foot shark eaten by killer whale. Some large free-swimming great white sharks are around 500~580cm(16.5~19 feet), and they are not uncommon.

The type of orca that eats sharks,on the other hand,is offshore killer whale,which are smaller than other killer whales in size,with less sexual dimorphism. The group of orcas that ate the white shark in 1997 weren't offshore killer whale,but they,too,were very small in size compared to other types of killer whales. (The female that attacked the shark in 1997 was 4.7~5.2m in length) (

There are no records of great white sharks larger than its average size eaten by killer whales,and since large great whites attain sizes close to killer whales that eats sharks,the attacks are very unlikely. Also,as mentioned before,the shark that was killed by killer whale is one of the smallest adults,way behind the average size. My point is that great white sharks should not be excluded from the classification "apex predator,"and the sentence "The great white shark has no natural predators other than the orca." should be changed to,"Great white sharks have no natural predators,though small adults can fall prey to killer whales." It should be more specific. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Csw0219 (talk • contribs) 00:52, 22 January 2015 (UTC)

Conservation status
The Great White Shark has long been fully protected in South African waters, and the fishing ban is generally obeyed.CRJ Taylor (talk) 10:49, 4 August 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 August 2014
Remove,"The great white shark has no natural predators other than the Orca." because this sentence could be a contradiction, "has no natural predator", then names a predator, "Orca"

Replace with, "The only great white shark natural predator is the Orca." Charliewoolery (talk) 14:12, 12 August 2014 (UTC)charliewoolery

 * It's not a contradiction; grammatically, it's fine as-is. But, if you'd like to change it, you could have it read "The only natural predator of the great white shark is the Orca."    Joel Why? (talk)

Age of Maturity
The introduction contains conflicting information on age of sexual maturity that should be resolved one way or the other. Looking at the source referenced for each fact, numbers 64 and 9, it seems to me that number 9 is superior though I would reference the source material for the article rather than the article itself. Here are the edits I propose, I would make it myself but cannot due to my unconfirmed status:

Introduction

"This shark reaches its maturity around 15 years of age and was previously believed to have a life span of over 30 years. The true lifespan of great white sharks is far longer; now estimated to be as long as 70 years or more, making it one of the longest lived cartilaginous fish currently known."

becomes

"This shark was previously believed to have a life span of approximately 30 years, but its true lifespan is now thought to be far longer at 70 years or more, which would make it one of the longest lived cartilaginous fish currently known."

I would remove references 8 and 9 from the introduction in accordance with the wishes of a previous editor since these references appear later in the article.

Ecology and behavior: Reproduction

"Great white sharks also reach sexual maturity at around 15 years of age."

becomes

"Great white sharks are currently believed to reach sexual maturity at ages 26 and 33 years for male and female sharks respectively." Reference here: http://www.publish.csiro.au/view/journals/dsp_journal_fulltext.cfm?nid=126&f=MF14127

I do not understand why the subject of lifespan is included under reproduction, but I will leave that to a more experienced editor to decide. I would make this minor edit regardless of where it should be:

"the true lifespan of the great white shark was revealed to be up to 70 years or more,"

becomes

"the true lifespan of the great white shark was revealed to be 70 years or more,"

Bemis Ampleforth (talk) 13:57, 10 March 2015 (UTC)

204.47.172.84 (talk)Ubiquitousnewt204.47.172.84 (talk) 17:00, 19 May 2015 (UTC) "33 years"? Nonsense. No way do these things reach sexual reproduction as late as this article claims. The citations provided are bad; 2 are "science-o-tainment" sites, and the last isn't relevant and doesn't support the text.

https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=80729&inline=1 "Individuals of this species mature late (females 14-16 years; males 9-10 years), and have few offspring (Cailliet et al. 1985; Francis 1996). Females breed every two to three years (Francis 1996; Compagno et al. 1997; Domeier 2012a). Although parturition (live birth) has never been observed, it is believed to occur in or near the warm waters of the SCB and northern Mexico in the late spring and summer."

Somebody fix it

Western Aus part of Australia?
THere is a section on Australia that says the sharks are protected. AND a bt earlier saying in Western Australia they are caught and killed as a matter of policy. THESE 2 bits are not clear together, expecilly to know if the latest polica in West Aust has changed the national / federal policy or if the sate is in breach of it somehow. Can someone that knows the situation beter makes these 2 bits clear?

Most attacks on humans ranking number 1.
National Geographic disagrees with this unture statement. The bullshark is number one. Please fix this false information. HeliosGnosis (talk) 12:37, 10 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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lol hay gurlllllllll — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.31.120.81 (talk) 16:34, 10 March 2016 (UTC)

Distribution map
The map in this article needs an update. Great white sharks do not frequent tropical waters, however this map shows a homogenous distribution throughout the tropical, subtropical and temperate seas. Berkserker (talk) 10:32, 16 May 2016 (UTC)

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Size
There is a debate between editors regarding the biggest great white shark ever measured. This article has been marked as a good article, and all of us have the responsibility to keep it that way. Therefore only publish confirmed and up to date information, while citing your findings. The two largest verified specimens that are currently accepted by official sources are the following.

- A 19.7 (or 19.8) footer caught off Western Australia, in 1984, and is accepted by shark expert J. E. Randall and later by José Castro from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Association in the US

According to shark expert J. E. Randall, the largest white shark reliably measured was 6.0 m (19.7 ft), found near Ledge Point, Western Australia in 1987 (the shark was actually caught in 1984, but tooth measured and findings published by Randall in 1987). [hubpages.com/education/The--Biggest-Great-White-Shark-Ever-Found#] (hub pages is in general blocked so I couldn't provide the link, you need to copy and paste) “The largest white shark believed to have been measured reliably is a six-metre [19ft 8in] specimen from Ledge Point, Western Australia, caught on March 22 1984.”

- A 20 footer caught off Canada's Prince Edward Island, in 1988, and is accepted by the Canadian Shark Research Center

According to the Canadian Shark Research Center, the world's largest accurately measured great white was 20 feet in length. This was a female caught in 1988 at Canada's Prince Edward Island. Local fisherman David McKendrick landed the toothy catch. Experts mainly agree that 20 feet is the more common maximum size for a great white, with these larger individuals weighing around 4,200 pounds. Females tend to be larger than males, so they can fall into the 20-footer group. The majority of great whites, however, measure between 13 and 16 feet with an average weight of 1,500 to 2,450 pounds.

As for the second 1945 Cuba specimen, you need to present your sources, otherwise there is only one specimen that is being discussed by officials and it has recently been proven to be much smaller. So I will be publishing these verified figures, if you have new and reliable sources please discuss. Berkserker (talk) 03:31, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

You can read in the soureces that there are two specimens. This one says 7000 lb (3175 kg): Echenique, E. J. "A Shark to Remember: The Story of a Great White Caught in 1945". while these says 3324 kg (7328 lb): https://ia800704.us.archive.org/21/items/cbarchive_109514_predatorybehaviourofthewhitesh1982/predatorybehaviourofthewhitesh1982.pdf http://www.bio-nica.info/biblioteca/Wroe2008GreatWhiteSharkBiteForce.pdf Two different figures, two different specimens. User:WelcometoJurassicPark (talk) 10:55, 03 June 2016 (UTC)

 * The Cojimar specimen has never been weighed, therefore the weight figure is just an estimate. No source I have read cites two separate specimens. These are basically different estimations of weight for the same specimen, that has been downsized in recent studies. I have cited two of the latest accepted max figures by 3 separate organisations. Did you know that even 11 meter specimens were accepted as legitimate and published as a maximum size for the white shark for decades? Scientific literature corrects its mistakes over time, therefore if there is a more recent study, proving the older one inaccurate, it is taken as principle. Therefore until the new analysis was present, all authors cited the Cojimar specimen. The sources you cited are written in the 80s, and a lot has changed since then. Plus you can see from the regression analysis on that article that it is an outlier. The cluster of max size is limited to 5.5-6 meters, and after a huge gap you see the Cojimar specimen. However authors at the time didn't question the data since it was accepted as legitimate at the time. You can see the same author mentioning the larger specimens once being accepted as legitimate, the exact thing has happened once again in the last couple of decades and the accepted size has changed once again. So the Cojimar specimen can only be mentioned on "Relationship with Humans" as a big fish tale. Berkserker (talk) 17:13, 3 June 2016 (UTC)

Note to all editors. I have taken out the unverified reports and organised them under a separate title. These could actually be completely removed in the long run, however for now placed them in a cultural context under relationship with humans. Berkserker (talk) 03:36, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

great white ansh! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 153.107.193.213 (talk) 23:28, 14 June 2016 (UTC)

There have been allegations of giant white or whitish sharks, as mentioned in this link in "See also". Leo1pard (talk) 16:02, 24 September 2018 (UTC)

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Pre FAC look
Right, needs:

 * more synonyms and taxonomic history
 * Fix tags and cite uncited sentences
 * review external links

just on first look. Would torpedo FAC to go without addressing these: Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 00:05, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

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Evolution date
I feel the claim that it evolved around 16 mya is inaccurate considering the common ancestor with mako sharks lived 6 to 8 mya according to this  User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk
 * But seriously, I think this is a complete lie. I can’t find anybody that’s not citing Wikipedia who says that the shark evolved 16 mya  User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk 19:55, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 May 2018
The Celsius to Fahrenheit conversion in the adaptations section is wrong. 14C is approximately 57F. You know it is incorrect because any Celsius value above 0 must be above 32F. Jerfdurf (talk) 04:04, 19 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: The temperature is 14 °C above that of the water. Here 14 °C is a temperature difference, so we do not add 32 °F. Gulumeemee (talk) 05:09, 19 May 2018 (UTC)

Edit request
In June 2018 the New Zealand Department of Conservation classified the great white shark under the New Zealand Threat Classification System as "Nationally Endangered". The species meets the criteria for this classification as there exists a moderate, stable population with a population of between 1000 to 5000 mature individuals. This classification has the qualifiers "Data Poor" and "Threatened Overseas". Ambrosia10 (talk) 16:50, 18 January 2019 (UTC)
 * Seems good, go ahead and add it to the In New Zealand section  User:Dunkleosteus77 |push to talk 17:18, 18 January 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:36, 9 March 2019 (UTC)
 * Comparison of size of orca and great white shark.svg

Semi-protected edit request on 2 June 2019
would be great to add the following external link:

Thank you PauBatlleV (talk) 18:15, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: We seem to have a pretty good collection of links already. Is there something in particular that is good about the link you are suggesting that is not captured by the already-existing links? Please also review WP:ELNEVER and verify its suitability. Izno (talk) 20:55, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Looks like it was added on 7 June 2019. I removed the link. It doesn't seem to add anything helpful to the article. —Hyperik ⌜talk⌟ 17:21, 3 July 2019 (UTC)

wd,cj4rhk vtv u7v ggtbigvnhfcmnkg  g  y f  `v1g gtv 1/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 51.148.96.52 (talk) 10:45, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 August 2019
"In 2017, along the South African coast, four great whites were found washed ashore with their livers removed with what was described as "surgical precision". Local scientists claim that pods of orcas in the area were responsible for the attacks." Please correct this sentence according to the accompanying citation. In fact, THREE great whites were found washed ashore, which had been "torn apart to reveal their body cavity" with no mention of "surgical precision". There is no mention of "local scientists" but a South African DEA spokesperson stated that "wounds and bite indentations consistent with what would be expected in an Orca attack". 79.72.142.226 (talk) 16:20, 7 August 2019 (UTC)
 * ✅ Good catch, rephrased according to source. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 20:02, 7 August 2019 (UTC)

Shark Populations
it says in this article Great White Shark populations have been going down since the 1970s but it looks like they've been going down as early as the 1960s https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-018-0233-1 I suggest a update to the information in the article to include this information — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:6C64:607F:FFC9:C467:714C:301:5A1C (talk) 19:14, 8 December 2020 (UTC)

Two attacks on live humpback whale off South Africa?
The two attacks sound very similar. Both involed live, engtangled humpbacks off South Africa, one off Port Elizabeth and another just off Mossel Bay. One whale was 23 ft (7 m) while the other was 33 ft (10 m). One involved two sharks the other one, but both involved sharks of 13 ft (4 m). They also both occurred at the same time of year but allegedly in different years, February 2017 vs February 2020. They also both involed attacks to the tail first and then to the head. Is this just a coincidence or do this involve the same attack? BulbousCow (talk) 04:52, 17 February 2021 (UTC)

Great White Sharks use magnetic fields in the ocean floor for navigation, but this page has no information, update needed by experts
I was watching PBS Nature show, I think it was this one, Sharks of Hawaii:

https://www.pbs.org/wnet/nature/about-sharks-hawaii/24807/

..and in the show I recall learning these things:

1. Sharks have sensors to detect magnetic fields 2. Ocean floors have many magnetic poles 3. Sharks have, in them, the map of these semi-permanent magnetic poles 4. Sharks can use the magnetic detector and the map to navigate the ocean

One piece of evidence, cited in the movie, is that sharks swim in near perfect straight lines to their destination, and; they do so at great depths so that the sun and stars are not of use for navigation, and; they stay straight even though there are dramatic currents that we expect would sweep them off course.

I am not an expert but I came here to learn more about this idea that the sharks have the compass and the map inside them and use it to swim straight for hundreds of miles of ocean.

The show Sharks of Hawaii is great. One shortcoming, in my opinion, but also lacking on this page, is the idea of putting trackers onto sharks. It seems to me that putting public tracking systems onto shark fins is going to reveal information to bad fishermen about where sharks cluster and where to find specific sharks. Maybe its okay but it struck me as extremely foolish and not good for the protection of great white sharks.

Botanyhelp (talk) 18:59, 29 April 2021 (UTC)
 * If you have any sources to back this up, then feel free to add it. Ddum5347 (talk) 18:59, 29 April 2021 (UTC)

Here are some links I see today, 20210506:

https://www.wired.com/story/sharks-use-the-earths-magnetic-field-like-a-compass/

https://www.businessinsider.com/sharks-animals-use-earth-magnetic-field-navigate-2021-5 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Botanyhelp (talk • contribs) 18:23, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Fascinating. Maybe you could add these into the main page Shark? Ddum5347 (talk) 20:11, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Aberrant Colouration (Albino, Leucistic & Piebald)
It has been stated in the article that Leucism is extremely rare in the species, quoting the beached baby in Australia. There are however two other records of different aberrant colouration in the literature for the Great white shark.

1. Albinism. A baby was caught on rod and reel in 1996 in South Africa, decribed as being white with red eyes. The specimen is in the possession of the South African Institute for Aquatic Biodiversity (SAIAB). Pictures of it can be found here: https://www.saiab.ac.za/saiabnews/iconic-specimen:-a-fish-of-a-life-time.htm. Source: Smale, M. J. and Heemstra, P. C. 1997. First record of albinism in the Great White Shark, Carcharodon carcharias (Linneaus, 1758). South African Journal of Science 93:243–245.

2. Leucism/Piebald. A juvenile was filmed alive in the Aegean Sea in 2020 near Turkey. The white colouration extended in a broad area from the undersite up the flanks to just below the first dorsal fin, which also showed a broad white posterior margin. The rest of the body was coloured normaly. The authors linked the colouration to either environmental stress or possible inbreeding effects of the isolated population in the Mediterranean Sea. The complete article with pictures can be found here: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/347561389_A_LEUCISTIC_WHITE_SHARK_CARCHARODON_CARCHARIAS_LAMNIFORMES_LAMNIDAE_FROM_THE_NORTHERN_AEGEAN_SEA_TURKEY. Source: Kabasakal, H. 2020. A LEUCISTIC WHITE SHARK, CARCHARODON CARCHARIAS (LAMNIFORMES: LAMNIDAE), FROM THE NORTHERN AEGEAN SEA, TURKEY. Annales: Series Historia Naturalis 30(2): 187-190.

Could the article please be updated and the references and links be inserted. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 31.16.68.4 (talk) 23:52, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2022
Under “Size”:

“ Among living cartilaginous fish, only the whale shark (Rhincodon typus), the basking shark (Cetorhinus maximus) and the giant manta ray (Manta birostris), in that order, are on average larger and heavier.”

This is partially incorrect. The Greenland Shark is also larger, both in length and in weight, than the Great White Shark. 2601:602:D000:94F0:B473:6FFE:6BC4:AEA (talk) 00:14, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.

Semi-protected edit request on 8 February 2022 (2)
Under: “Size”

“Among living cartilaginous fish, only the whale shark (Rhincodon typus), the basking shark (Cetorhinus maximus) and the giant manta ray (Manta birostris), in that order, are on average larger and heavier. These three species are generally quite docile in disposition and given to passively filter-feeding on very small organisms.[58] This makes the great white shark the largest extant macropredatory fish.“

Upon further investigation, this entire section is simply incorrect and should probably be removed. The greenland shark, tiger shark, and great hanmerhead all are larger on average than the great white. 2601:602:D000:94F0:B473:6FFE:6BC4:AEA (talk) 00:23, 8 February 2022 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  — Paper9oll  (🔔 • 📝)  03:59, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Shark speed
In the lead, it said "can swim at speeds of 25 km/hr (16 mph)" but in the body of the article it said "40 km/h (25 mph)" 2 times. I'm confused which one is correct or if I've mistaken something. OnlyFixingProse (talk) 04:47, 22 March 2022 (UTC)

"Big White Shark" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has identified a potential problem with the redirect Big White Shark and has thus listed it for discussion. This discussion will occur at Redirects for discussion/Log/2022 July 7 until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TraderCharlotte (talk) 23:08, 7 July 2022 (UTC)

name change
the name great white shark is out dated and through campaigns to protect them the name has bean changed to white shark, as well as attempting to combat discrimination (its a breach of the anti discrimination act). Also "greater" and "lesser" animals (ie greater and lesser adjutant stork) are commonly used to differentiate between two similar species, the white shark is the last extant species in its genus (none named lesser white shark) also great white could be confused with lesser white sharks (an other name for white tip sharks) Realfakebezalbob (talk) 14:52, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
 * You will have to demonstrate a solid shift in name use in reliable sources for this to be an option, and that is clearly not happening. -- Elmidae (talk · contribs) 15:20, 18 July 2022 (UTC)

 * In the scientific literature there seems to be a preference for 'white shark' over 'great white shark'. This is based on pubmed search results, compare:

 * https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=%22great+white+shark%22 (38 results, 13 in the last 5 years)

 * https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?term=%22white+shark%22++NOT+great (83 results, 46 in the last 5 years)

 * So I think there is some evidence for the preference for 'white shark' over 'great white shark'. I do not know any convenient ways of comparing more "popular" literature. Carcharias taurus (talk) 09:01, 19 July 2022 (UTC)
 * http://www.elasmo-research.org/education/white_shark/ws_or_gws.htm
 * also many ichthyologists and other scientist are beginning to use the name signaling a shift in naming (example http://elasmollet.org/PublicationsOthers/Francis%20white%20shark%20reproduction.pdf with no mention of "great white shark" rather "white shark") Realfakebezalbob (talk) 16:31, 21 July 2022 (UTC)
 * You have a good point about the general scientific trend of preferring "white shark" over "great white shark," but it's not clear whether this shift is prominent enough vernacularly (see Etymology and Naming History in Taxonomy). There's a reason why it took so long for Killer whale to be moved to the more appropriate name Orca despite the latter's prominent usage for decades. I recommend making a move proposal and laying out your arguments, with focus on evidence of a trend in greater vernacular usage for "white shark." Macrophyseter | talk  18:58, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Well if there's a shark called the lesser white shark as you've said with Triaenodon, then it makes sense we should specify great white Dunkleosteus77  (talk) 20:02, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * The oceanic whitetip shark. But that's also an obscure historical name that you would only find in very old books.Macrophyseter | talk  22:21, 13 November 2022 (UTC)
 * yay but greater/ lesser is used to distinguish between similarly related things (greater/less stork) Realfakebezalbob (talk) 20:33, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * in fairly certain greater/ lesser is used for close relatives, under the same genus Realfakebezalbob (talk) 20:58, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * I didnt know you could do that! (otherwise I would have) how would one do such a thing? Realfakebezalbob (talk) 20:59, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * Strongly opposed to this change. It doesn't matter what scientists prefer, because neither "great white shark" nor "white shark" are scientific names, they're common names. Scientific sources are an authority on what the taxonomy of the species is, but not on what the common name is. Just like our own article Common name says: "a common name of a taxon or organism (also known as a vernacular name, English name, colloquial name, country name, popular name, or farmer's name) is a name that is based on the normal language of everyday life". No non-scientific sources are using the name "white shark" because almost no one outside scientific circles would know what that refers to, whereas the name "great white shark" is probably one of the most well-known shark names in the English-speaking world. Steven Walling • talk  03:14, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * "But before we go any further, some technical clarification is needed.  Most shark scientists refer to Carcharodon carcharias by its official common name, “White Shark.”  I think calling them “Great Whites” was something that stuck in the public’s mind when that’s how fictional marine biologist Matt Hooper referred to the shark in JAWS" there is great effect on pop culture on science and vise versa. In addition it is an understatement that nonscientific sources dont use the term "white shark." Also I find it very hard to believe someone would be so, brain dead (for lack of better words) to think what they know to be a 'great white' referred to as a 'white' and not connect the dots; then again there are those types of people out there!
 * https://www.montereybayaquarium.org/animals/animals-a-to-z/white-shark
 * https://www.usnews.com/news/us/articles/2022-11-07/california-swimmer-describes-seeing-shark-attack-her
 * https://www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2022-11-13-shark-spotters-safety-outfit-comes-to-plettenberg-bay-giving-conservation-a-vital-boost/
 * https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/nov/14/glassy-fangs-and-glowing-fins-amazing-deep-sea-animals-found-near-cocos-islands
 * these use both white and great white
 * https://wror.com/2022/11/14/shark-found-in-massachusetts-lagoon/
 * https://www.newsweek.com/great-white-sharks-mysteriously-washing-ashore-north-america-1755165
 * https://www.newsweek.com/great-white-sharks-mysteriously-washing-ashore-north-america-1755165 Realfakebezalbob (talk) 20:51, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * There's an even simpler example that proves my point. Even if you search for "white shark" specifically in quotes, nearly 100% of the news stories have titles and article content that say "great white shark". The same is true in Google Books search. Steven Walling • talk  23:32, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * only the last three have great mentioned in them Realfakebezalbob (talk) 23:52, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * no one is doubting it is still used Realfakebezalbob (talk) 23:52, 14 November 2022 (UTC)
 * in addition the majority of government sources prefer white over great white Realfakebezalbob (talk) 00:08, 15 November 2022 (UTC)
 * You just cherrypicked a tiny number of source examples when there are thousands of results that favor "great white shark" as the common name. Not very convincing. Steven Walling • talk  01:42, 15 November 2022 (UTC)

Taxonomy (Etymology correction needed)
Based on the Romanization of the Greek and meaning prescribed to it, I believe this section is incorrect: [It is a portmanteau of two Ancient Greek words: the prefix carchar- is derived from καρχαρίας (kárkharos), which means "jagged" or "sharp".] Rather than καρχαρίας (karkharías), I believe they meant to use κάρχαρος (kárkharos), which means "jagged" or "saw-like". 141.239.93.31 (talk) 07:52, 31 January 2023 (UTC)

Maximum Size
I found the article slightly inconsistent with the maximal size of this species. The lead threw a data of 5.8m while the section mentioned 6.1m (verified length) with this source. Do we have to make it 5.8 to 6.1m in the lead?

Besides, other articles, including Saltwater Crocodile & Black Caiman, adopt data of maximum sizes from those "unconfirmed reports" as well. Do we have to at least mention some of those largest estimations in the size section? For instance, the salt croc page has its lead throwing a maximal length of 6 meters & a mass of 1300 kilograms while claiming the largest estimated statistics of such as 7 meters & a jaw-dropping 2000 kilograms (crazy for a land reptile). RoyalRover (talk) 17:54, 17 March 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 May 2023
The Etymology section refers to the Ancient Greek word for rough/jagged, but the Greek text and its anglicization don't match each other, and neither is correct (which also means that the Wiktionary link is broken).

According to Wiktionary, the correct word is κάρκαρος, anglicized as kárkaros.

Suggested changes: in the sentence '...the prefix carchar- is derived from καρχαρίας (kárkharos), which means "jagged" or "sharp".', change the text "καρχαρίας (kárkharos)" to "κάρκαρος (kárkaros)". Also, change the Wiktionary target on the Greek text from κάρχαρος to κάρκαρος. 97.126.28.92 (talk) 08:52, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
 * ✅ except that I used κάρχαρος kárkharos in line with the source given in the article, instead of κάρκαρος kárkaros. They seem equivalent, so I've also linked to κάρκαρος. small jars 16:52, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Apex predator
Looking to obtain a consensus regarding the sentence in the intro paragraph, "The great white shark is an apex predator, as it has no known natural predators other than, on very rare occasions, the orca." An apex predator, by definition, is "a predator at the top of a food chain, without natural predators of its own." Would it be fair to say that the great white shark cannot be an apex predator as it does have a documented natural predator, the orca. The word "rare"? I'd argue that is up for debate; it seems to be more common or at least documented more often now (reference is from 2005), particularly in South Africa and sometimes California. I believe this sentence needs to be amended. I propose - "The great white shark has only one documented natural predator, the orca". Thoughts? Bloodyboppa (talk) 22:00, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

 * I think the sentence should be eliminated entirely. It might be true that for adult great white sharks, their only non-human predator is the orca, but newborn great white sharks are only about 4–5 feet long, and great white sharks grow very slowly. Scientists believe that most great white sharks never make it to sexual maturity because of predation from various species of sharks, including larger great white sharks. Why should predation not count if it's only the juveniles being killed? Muéro(talk/c) 18:09, 11 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 June 2023
Remove reference 16. Wrong species. 73.157.217.197 (talk) 09:07, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

 * ✅ The reference 16 stated the following:
 * ''"Danger to Humans
 * The tiger shark is second only to the white shark in number of reported attacks on humans "''
 * This is relevant to the statement, but because there is already a reliable source for it, I removed the citation as you suggested.
 * Thank you for your contribution! NotAGenious (talk) 10:24, 26 June 2023 (UTC)

Edit request, update to mistaken identity & addition of Oceanic White Tips, July 2023
I'm a wiki edit noob, if anyone would like to help it would be appreciated; both corrections are under Shark Bite Incidents:

Currently: "Of all shark species, the great white shark is responsible for by far the largest number of recorded shark bite incidents on humans, with 272 documented unprovoked bite incidents on humans as of 2012." First, it's now 10+ years since 2012 so the stats should be updated but next, for context, it should be noted that the Oceanic White Tip has probably killed more which is noted in the "Shark Attack" wiki. It states: "The oceanic whitetip has probably killed many more castaways, but these are not recorded in the statistics." and here is the source they use yet there are multiple sources: http://animals.howstuffworks.com/fish/most-dangerous-shark2.htm

-Currently: "Contrary to popular belief, great white sharks do not mistake humans for seals." its source is from a 19 year old apparently outdated Nat Geo article. There was a more recent 2021 well-fund study that says the exact opposite and even Nat Geo cites this in various articles. Perhaps something like the following could be added: "A study provides the first evidence in agreement with the ‘mistaken identity theory’, in which white sharks bite humans because of their visual similarity to their natural pinniped prey. " https://royalsocietypublishing.org/doi/10.1098/rsif.2021.0533

NotBond007 (talk) 01:57, 18 July 2023 (UTC)

Conversation Status Graphic
Graphic shows that the species is critically endangered whereas the text indicates that it is vulnerable. The graphic should be corrected accordingly. 47.199.208.41 (talk) 14:51, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

 * I think you're a little confused. Great whites are considered vulnerable worldwide, but the IUCN assesses the European and Mediterranean subpopulations separately, and considers those specific subpopulations to be critically endangered.
 * That being said, there was a small error in the speciesbox's conservation status graphic; the status reference for the European subpopulation was a link to a page ran by the European Environment Agency instead of the actual IUCN assessment for the European subpopulation. I have since corrected this. I also added a sentence to Conservation status section mentioning that the European and Mediterranean subpopulations are considered critically endangered, since that wasn't mentioned in the article itself.
 * Hope that clears things up.
 * Kodiak Blackjack (talk) • (contribs) 05:07, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Mexico banned Guadalupe shark diving in 2023
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/mexico-bans-great-white-shark-related-tourism-on-guadalupe-island-180981616/ NotBond007 (talk) 18:30, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

GWS cage diving comes to Nova Scotia, Canada
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/nova-scotia/cage-diving-great-white-sharks-nova-scotia-1.6803592 NotBond007 (talk) 18:32, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Adding GWS liver context for how large and nutrient their livers are
Many assume a GWS's liver is tiny and wonder why Orcas kill them for their "tiny" liver...First they have two sides or lobes of their liverhttps://dlnr.hawaii.gov/sharks/anatomy/the-shark-inside/#:~:text=Shark%20livers%20are%20huge%2C%20consisting,lobes%20surrounding%20the%20digestive%20tract.

Second... "Great white shark livers are huge, weighing in at hundreds of kilograms. And they're packed with calories, obtained from the fat of the seals they eat. According to a 2013 paper, a 456-kilogram (1,000 lbs) great white shark liver contains around 400 litres of oil - delicious, calorie rich oil. This helps to keep the sharks buoyant and supplied with nutrients as they migrate.

It's also a really tasty treat for orcas: like eating a fatty doughnut, or bacon fried in butter - not just a delicacy, but a deeply sustaining meal in the often harsh conditions of the oceans." https://www.sciencealert.com/watch-orcas-surround-and-scare-off-the-ocean-s-most-terrifying-predator NotBond007 (talk) 18:38, 8 August 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 4 December 2023
Hello, my colleagues and I are releasing a scientific publication on the Mediterranean white shark this month. We wanted to include a naturalistic illustration of the species hunting a school of bluefin tuna in the diet section. Is this possible? Regards, Tanguy

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:White_shark_hunting_a_school_of_bluefin_tuna_V5.jpg TanguyCAR (talk) 19:41, 4 December 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the template. M.Bitton (talk) 21:51, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Attacks fewer than 10 per year wrong
Argument in Description that attacks occur fewer than 10 times per year is wrong. As stated in the source nr 18, "deadly attacks" (!) are mostly fewer than 10 times per year. In the same article 2020 is called a low year for attacks with 57 reported attacks. 2A00:6020:5023:F700:3908:89D5:642B:25B0 (talk) 21:50, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

Edit request
In Anatomy and Description, under size, there seems to be an error: "In great white sharks, sexual dimorphism is present, and females are generally larger than males. Male great whites on average measure 3.4 to 4.0 m (11 to 13 ft) in length, while females measure 4.6 to 4.9 m (15 to 16 ft)." Trnsfrcashcorson (talk) 18:35, 29 January 2024 (UTC)

 * ❌ I'm... not sure what the error is? Nothing about that quote is self-contradictory, and it's directly supported by the reference at the end. Could you clarify what you want changed and why?
 * Kodiak Blackjack (talk) • (contribs) 04:28, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

Name of article/species.
The proper name should be "White Shark." "Great white shark" is the improper common name. The name of the article and all subsequent references should be changed to "White Shark." The opening sentence should read as "The white shark (Carcharodon carcharias), also known as the great white shark..." 134.186.51.126 (talk) 04:31, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

 * Can you provide some reliable sources that state that the proper/more common common name is "white shark" and not "great white shark"? Mr Fink (talk) 05:35, 19 July 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Great white shark


text:
No. 25 Squadron RAF

Number 25 (Fighter) Squadron (alternatively Number XXV (F) Squadron) is a squadron of the Royal Air Force having reformed on 8 September 2018.

During the First World War, No. 25 Squadron operated as a fighter-reconnaissance unit and later as a bomber squadron. Pilots from the Squadron, Cpl. James Henry Waller and 2nd Lt. George Reynolds McCubbin, shot down the famous German fighter ace Max Immelmann in June 1916. In the Inter-war years, the Squadron was based at RAF Hawkinge, from where No. 25 Squadron's badge originated from. Throughout the Second World War, the unit flew both bombers and escorted bombers. In the 1950s, it became a night-fighter squadron. Between 1963 and 1989, No. 25 Squadron operated the Bristol Bloodhound Surface-to-Air Missile from RAF Brüggen, West Germany and later RAF Wyton, Cambridgeshire. The Squadron regained its wings in July 1989, operating the Panavia Tornado F.3 interceptor, these were flown until April 2008 when the Squadron disbanded.

Since reforming in 2018, No. 25 Squadron operates the BAE Systems Hawk T.2. It provides Advanced Fast Jet Training (AFJT) for pilots of the RAF and Royal Navy, as part of No. 4 Flying Training School at RAF Valley.

First World War

No. 25 Squadron was initially formed as part of the Royal Flying Corps (RFC) at Montrose, Scotland on 25 September 1915, from a nucleus provided by No. 6 (Reserve) Squadron. Upon its formation, the Squadron operated numerous types such as the Maurice Farman MF.11 Shorthorn and the Avro 504. No. 25 Squadron relocated to Barnham, Norfolk on 31 December and shortly after were equipped with the Vickers F.B.5, these however were exchanged for the Royal Aircraft Factory F.E.2b by February. The Squadron was deployed to the RFC HQ at Saint-Omer, France on 20 February, as a long-range reconnaissance and fighter unit. No. 25 Squadron was initially tasked with intercepting German aircraft, operating in the routes taken by the Luftstreitkräfte on their way to raid England. However this was proven to be ineffective and the Squadron was transferred in order to protect General Headquarters and Audruicq, flying sorties with No. 21 Squadron.

On 1 April, the Squadron relocated to the aerodrome at Auchel, operating alongside No. 18 Squadron and No. 27 Squadron. From here the Squadron supported the British 1st Army near Fromelles and Souchez. In June 1916, in preparation for the Somme Offensive, the Squadron had its ranked bolstered to 18 machines, 20 pilots and 18 observers. In the prelude to the battle, No. 25 Squadron flew reconnaissance and bombing missions behind enemy lines. On 18 June, Cpl. James Henry Waller, and his pilot 2nd Lt. George Reynolds McCubbin, shot down famous German ace Max Immelmann. This occurred during No. 25 Squadron's second encounter with Immelmann that day, after he previously shot down Lt. C. E. Rogers for his 16th victory. Immelmann, flying a Fokker E.III, engaged No. 25 Squadron over Lens and subsequently shot down Lt. J. R. B. Savage before closing in on McCubbin's F.E.2b, whose gunner, Waller, opened fire and shot him down. For their accomplishment, McCubbin was awarded the Distinguished Service Order while Waller was promoted to Sergeant and received the Distinguished Service Medal. When the offensive started on 1 July, No. 25 Squadron started flying night time bombing missions. It started operating D.H.4 bombers in June 1917.

During the course of the First World War, 25 Squadron had nine flying aces among its ranks, including James Fitz-Morris, James Green, Reginald George Malcolm, Lancelot Richardson, Noel Webb, Charles Woollven Alexander Roulstone, Leonard Herbert Emsden, and Hartley Pullan.

Interwar years
After the war the squadron acquired D.H.9s. The unit was disbanded on 31 January 1920 at RAF Scopwick. The squadron reformed the next day at RAF Hawkinge, flying Snipes, and went to Turkey in 1922/23 during the Chanak Crisis. After returning to the UK the unit stayed for a number of years at Hawkinge. The Snipes gave way to Grebes and later Siskins, while in December 1936 the squadron became the first unit to receive the Hawker Fury Mk II, having already flown the Fury Mk I since 1932. The Fury was replaced by the Hawker Demon when the squadron was given a night-fighter role. For night-flying training purposes the squadron also received Gloster Gladiators.

Second World War
No. 25(F) Squadron moved to RAF Northolt on 12 September 1938. During World War II it flew Blenheims on night patrols, which were replaced by Beaufighters and later Mosquitos. By the closing stages of the war, the squadron was almost entirely committed to bomber escort missions. The squadron was particularly successful during Operation Steinbock from January to May 1944.

Cold War
After the war No. 25 Squadron continued to operate the Mosquito NF.30 night fighter from their base at RAF West Malling until November 1951, when they were replaced by jet powered De Havilland Vampire NF.10, conversion to type having commenced in February 1951. The Vampires were then replaced by Gloster Meteor NF Mk.12 and 14s in March 1954. In 1957 the squadron moved from West Malling to RAF Tangmere, where it disbanded on 23 June 1958. On 1 July 1958 No. 153 Squadron RAF was renumbered No. 25 Squadron and the squadron flew Meteors until their replacement in 1959 by the Gloster Javelin FAW Mk.7s.

The Bloodhound missile years
No. 25 Squadron disbanded again on 30 November 1962, reforming a year later as the RAF's first Bristol Bloodhound SAM unit, based at RAF North Coates. In this role the squadron moved to RAF Bruggen in 1970, with detachments also protecting RAF Laarbruch and RAF Wildenrath. In 1983 the squadron moved to RAF Wyton, similarly protecting RAF Barkston Heath and RAF Wattisham.

On Tornados
The RAF withdrew the Bloodhound from 25 Squadron in October 1989 and the squadron immediately reformed at RAF Leeming as a RAF Tornado F3 fighter squadron, which became operational in January 1990, alongside 11 Squadron and 23 Squadron as part of No. 11 Group RAF. Between September – December 1993 and May – August 1995, No. 25 (F) Squadron aircrew and groundcrew took part in Operation Deny Flight, a NATO-led operation enforcing the United Nations (UN) no-fly zone over Bosnia-Herzegovina. Operating out of Gioia del Colle Air Base near Bari, Italy, on each occasion the squadron took over responsibility for supporting the no-fly zone from 23 Squadron before being relieved by 5 Squadron from RAF Coningsby. In the late 1990s the squadron deployed operationally to Saudi Arabia to protect the Shi'ite Muslims of southern Iraq by flying Combat Air Patrol missions below the 33rd parallel, enforcing the southern no-fly zone imposed by Operation Southern Watch. Between October 2004 and January 2005 a contingent of 4 aircraft from 25(F) Sqn was deployed to Siauliana Air Base in Lithuania to provide NATO Air Defence cover to Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia, following their membership of NATO. Within the United Kingdom the Squadron's primary role, along with 11(F) Sqn prior to their disbandment, was QRA(S), Quick Reaction Alert (South), providing air defence for the Southern UK. Most publicly the Squadron intercepted eight Russian Tu-95 Bear-H strategic bombers and two Tu-160 Blackjack strategic bombers in July 2007. The squadron disbanded on 4 April 2008, its Tornados relocating to RAF Leuchars to join the remaining active Tornado F3 squadrons stationed there.

Advanced flying training
In August 2018, it was announced that, due to the increased demand for fast jet pilots in both the RAF and the Fleet Air Arm following the entry into service of the F-35B Lightning, the existing Hawk T.2 squadron at 4 FTS would be split into two, with No. IV (AC) Squadron to be joined by a newly reformed No. 25 Squadron by the end of 2018. No. 25 Squadron will takeover the jet conversion tasks, with No. IV Squadron focusing on tactics and weapons training.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: No. 25 Squadron RAF


text:
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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eurpoean Hedghog

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was- kept

European Hedgehog
There is nothing in this article that is not in Hedgehog. Kainaw 13:42, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete / Redirect to Hedgehog. --Feedle 17:26, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep There is nothing wrong with having the Hedgehog overview article and then having separate articles for each sub type. The article is a reasonable size so keep MarkS 21:02, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Factual, informative, well written. Agreed w/ MarkS. Wile E. Heresiarch 04:42, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Perfectly valid species article.   — Gwalla | Talk 23:53, 14 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Is this the kind of hedgehog used in Croquet? Terrapin 15:51, 15 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. --Conti|✉ 23:43, Oct 17, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep DCEdwards1966 17:25, Oct 18, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep Lachatdelarue [[User talk:Lachatdelarue|(talk)]] 22:19, 18 Oct 2004 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


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Bistrița (Siret)

The Bistrița (also called Bistrița Aurie or Bistrița Moldoveană; Aranyos-Beszterce) is a river in the Romanian regions of Maramureș, Bukovina and Moldavia (most of its length). It is a right tributary of the river Siret. At Chetriș, near Bacău, it flows into the Siret. Its source is in the Rodna Mountains, at the foot of the Gârgalău Peak. It flows through the counties Bistrița-Năsăud, Suceava, Neamț, and Bacău. The towns Vatra Dornei, Bicaz, Piatra Neamț, Roznov, Buhuși, and Bacău lie along the Bistrița. The Bistrița is 283 km long, and its basin area is 7039 km2.

The upper reach is also known as Bistrița Aurie (Goldene Bistritz).

The following dams have been constructed on the river Bistrița:
 * Topoliceni
 * Izvorul Muntelui
 * Pângărați
 * Vaduri
 * Piatra Neamț
 * Reconstrucția
 * Racova
 * Gârleni
 * Lilieci
 * Bacău

Towns and villages
The following towns and villages are situated along the river Bistrița, from source to mouth: Șesuri, Cârlibaba Nouă, Valea Stânei, Botoș, Ciocănești, Iacobeni, Argestru, Vatra Dornei, Cozănești, Ortoaia, Gheorghițeni, Rusca, Sunători, Chiril, Cojoci, Satu Mare, Crucea, Holda, Holdița, Broșteni, Lungeni, Frasin, Mădei, Pârâul Cârjei, Borca, Soci, Pârâul Pântei, Bușmei, Farcașa, Popești, Frumosu, Pârâul Fagului, Săvinești, Galu, Poiana Teiului, Topoliceni, Roșeni, Poiana Largului, Călugăreni, Bistricioara, Ceahlău, Chirițeni, Grozăvești, Buhalnița, Ruginești, Izvoru Alb, Bicaz, Capșa, Tarcău, Straja, Oanțu, Pângărați, Preluca, Vaduri, Viișoara, Agârcia, Doamna, Piatra Neamț, Văleni, Cut, Dumbrava Roșie, Brășăuți, Săvinești, Roznov, Șovoaia, Zănești, Ruseni, Podoleni, Rediu, Costișa, Frunzeni, Buhuși, Blăgești, Racova, Buda, Gura Văii, Gârlenii de Sus, Gârleni, Itești, Lilieci, Bacău, Galbeni.

Tributaries
The following rivers are tributaries to the river Bistrița (from source to mouth):

 * Left: Bârjaba, Vulcănescu, Mostim, Tinosu Mare, Iurescu, Bretila, Țibău, Cârlibaba, Afinetu, Valea Stânei, Andronic, Botoș, Gropăria, Oița, Brezuța, Fieru, Argestru, Chilia, Biliceni, Gheorghițeni, Rusca, Stânișoara, Călinești, Frumușana, Izvorul Arseneasa, Colbu, Arama, Chiril, Cojoci, Fieru, Pârâul Fagului, Izvorul Casei, Leșu, Holda (or Puzdra), Holdița, Cotârgași, Pietroasa, Sabasa, Fărcașa, Galu, Bolătău, Stâna, Vârlanu, Letești, Hangu, Buhalnița, Potoci, Capșa, Pângărați, Pângărăcior, Valea Mare, Cuejdiu, Frăsinel, Cracău, Câlneș, Români, Lețcana, Racova, Valea Rea.
 * Right: Putreda, Tomnatecu Mare, Tomnatecu Mic, Bila, Lala, Rotunda, Izvorul Șes, Zacla, Valea Rusăi, Măgura, Fundoaia, Stânișoara, Valea Bâtcii, Izvorul Gândacului, Diaca, Humor, Scoruș, Pârâul Rece, Suhărzelu Mic, Suhărzelu Mare, Tisa, Ciotina, Haju, Dorna, Neagra, Arin, Cozănești, Ortoaia, Bolătău, Rusca, Oșoiu, Sunători, Valea Lutului, Izvoru Rău, Bârnărel, Pârâul Cornului, Cicul, Bârnaru, Căboaia, Neagra Broștenilor, Borca, Stejar, Dreptul, Ruseni, Zahorna, Roșeni, Pârâul Duruitorilor, Bistricioara, Schit, Răpciunița, Țiflic, Valea Strâmtorilor, Izvorul Alb, Secu, Izvorul Muntelui, Coșușna, Bicaz, Crasnița, Crasna, Potoci, Tarcău, Oanțu, Secu Vaduri, Agârcia, Doamna, Sasca, Calul, Iapa, Nechit, Poloboc, Dragova, Buda, Trebeș.

title: Bistrița (Siret)


text:
Talk:Cork/to do

 * Summarise where possible and move content to sub articles
 * Review sport section (Possibly incl. notes on Cork as home of: the Steeplechase, Sam Maguire, Archbishop Croke, etc?)

title: Talk:Cork/to do


text:
Bistrița (Someș)

The Bistrița (Hungarian: Beszterce) is a river in the Romanian region of Transylvania, Bistrița-Năsăud County. It is sometimes referred to as Bistrița ardeleană. Near the city of Bistrița (at the village Sărata) it flows into the Șieu, a tributary of the Someșul Mare. Its length is 67 km and its basin size is 650 km2.

The upper reach of the river, upstream of the junction with the Bârgău in the village of Prundu Bârgăului is also known, locally, as Bistricioara.

Towns and villages
The following towns and villages are situated along the river Bistrița, from source to mouth: Colibița, Bistrița Bârgăului, Prundu Bârgăului, Josenii Bârgăului, Livezile, Bistrița

Tributaries
The following rivers are tributaries to the river Bistrița:

Left: Pănuleț, Repedea, Pârâul Stegii, Șoimu de Sus, Șoimu de Jos, Pietroasa, Poiana, Tănase, Fânațele, Ghinda

Right: Izvorul Lung, Bârgău, Valea Muntelui, Muncel, Iad, Slătinița, Valea Rus, Tărpiu

title: Bistrița (Someș)


text:
User:Steinsky/monobook.css

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title: User:Steinsky/monobook.css


text:
Silver dollar (fish)

Silver dollar is a common name given to a number of species of fishes, mostly in the genus Metynnis, tropical fish belonging to the family Serrasalmidae which are closely related to piranha and pacu. Most commonly, the name refers to Metynnis argenteus. Native to South America, these somewhat round-shaped silver fish are popular with fish-keeping hobbyists.

The silver dollar is a peaceful schooling species that spends most of its time in the mid- to upper-level of the water. Its average lifespan is less than ten years but can live longer in captivity. A benthic spawner and egg scatterer, the adult fish will spawn around 2,000 eggs. This breeding occurs in soft, warm water in low light.

Silver dollars natively live in a tropical climate in the sides of weedy rivers. They prefer water with a pH of 5–7, a water hardness of up to 15 dGH, and an ideal temperature range of 24–28 °C (75–82 °F). Their diet is almost exclusively vegetarian and in captivity they will often eat all the plants in a tank. They will also eat worms and small insects.

Fish compatibility
The silver dollar is listed as semi-aggressive but some silver dollars can be very mellow. These fish can be kept in community tanks with fish that can't fit in their mouths, and once fully grown, they can be kept with larger fish like oscars, pikes, and larger catfish.

Breeding
The best way to acquire a breeding pair is to purchase a half dozen juvenile silver dollars and raise them together. The parents will not consume the eggs or fry, although other fish will, so when spawning them it is wise to place them in a separate tank. To facilitate spawning, make sure the water is soft (8 dgH or below) and warm (80 to 82 F), keep the lighting dim, and provide fine-leaved plants.

Eventually a pair will spawn, and the female will lay up to 2000 eggs. The eggs will fall to the bottom of the tank, where they will hatch in three days. After approximately a week, the fry will be free swimming and able to eat fine foods such as commercially prepared fry food, finely-crushed spirulina, or freshly-hatched brine shrimp.

Silver dollar species

 * Metynnis altidorsalis
 * Metynnis argenteus (Silver dollar)
 * Metynnis fasciatus (Striped silver dollar)
 * Metynnis guaporensis
 * Metynnis hypsauchen (Schreitmüller's silver dollar, Striped silver dollar)
 * Metynnis lippincottianus (Spotted silver dollar)
 * Metynnis luna (Red-spot silver dollar)
 * Metynnis maculatus (Speckled silver dollar)
 * Metynnis mola
 * Metynnis otuquensis
 * Myloplus rubripinnis (Red hook silver dollar)
 * Myloplus schomburgkii (Black-barred silver dollar)
 * Mylossoma duriventre (Silver mylossoma (Hard-bellied silver dollar)

Hard bellies are silvery and somewhat transparent; they are the most commonly encountered species.

title: Silver dollar (fish)


text:
Sandycove

Sandycove is a suburb of Dublin, Ireland. It is southeast of Dún Laoghaire and Glasthule, and northwest of Dalkey. It is a popular seaside resort and is well known for its bathing place, the Forty Foot, which in the past was reserved for men only but is now available for mixed bathing. The locale features in the opening of Ulysses by James Joyce.

History
On 20 December 1940, during World War II, the Luftwaffe bombed the railway station even though Ireland was a neutral country. There were three injuries.

Transport
Sandycove and Glasthule railway station opened on 11 October 1855. Sandycove is also serviced by Dublin Bus numbers 59 and 111, and lies close to Dún Laoghaire harbour.

Culture
The writer James Joyce lived for a week as a young man in the Martello Tower situated beside the Forty Foot bathing place at Sandycove. The opening scene of Joyce's Ulysses is set in this tower. It now hosts a small Joycean museum, open all year round. Bloomsday is celebrated in Sandycove in Joyce's honour on the 16th of June every year.

Near the tower, on the seafront, is the unique landmark house designed in the Avant Garde style by Michael Scott, the eminent 20th-century architect, who made it his residence.

The ballad "Sandy Cove" (sic) by composer/singer Jimmy Webb appears on his 1993 album Suspending Disbelief. In the song, the narrator reflects on his life's choices and his mortality as he visits the neighbourhood and the famed Martello Tower.

Singer-songwriter Luka Bloom, in the liner notes to his 1992 album, The Acoustic Motorbike thanks Sandcove Cycles for maintaining the titular bicycle.

Lifeboat
The first lifeboat station in Ireland was established at Sandycove in 1803. On 28 December 1821, the lifeboat rescued the crew of the brig Ellen of Liverpool; four volunteer lifeboatmen drowned.

Notable residents

 * Roger Casement was born in Sandycove
 * Bernard Farrell, playwright
 * Peter Gatenby, Professor and Medical Director for the UN, lived in Sandycove.
 * William Monk Gibbon, poet and author
 * Oliver St. John Gogarty rented the Martello Tower from 1904 to 1925
 * James Joyce stayed briefly in the Martello Tower situated beside the Forty Foot bathing place, as a guest of Oliver St. John Gogarty.
 * Lucy Kennedy, broadcaster
 * Jason O'Mara was born and raised in Sandycove
 * Imogen Stuart, sculptor and Saoi
 * Maureen Toal, actress who resided in Sandycove.

title: Sandycove


text: Category:Argentine Navy admirals

title: Category:Argentine Navy admirals


text:
Talk:Spaghetti code

199.29.247.140 Example?
Is what 199.29.247.140 added really spaghetti code? I'd just call it bad code, because there's no noodle like loops of goto-ing and whatnot... --Carl 13:49, 13 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 * I agree. It's hardly a good example of spaghetti code. I removed it. --Neg 01:21, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Is there really any need for that picture of a bowl of spaghetti?
 * I guess looking at the spaghetti aids in understanding the chaotic nature of spaghetti code. Plus its humourous so why not. JesseHogan 07:56, 15 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Those pictures are much in help to understand what spaghetti code is. There could be bowl of Ravioli picture too, coz i don't know what ravioli is, so will have to search for it seperately Kiaurutis (talk) 21:20, 7 February 2011 (UTC)

assembly and function calls
While many assembly languages have a function stack, and apparent function calls, these are just a thin wrapper for the goto statement. They store the original location of the program counter in order to return to it later.
 * How is this significantly different from a function call in higher level languages? — The Storm Surfer 20:55, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

 * Moreover, spaghetti code is not the sine qua non of programming in assembly language, FORTRAN and early BASICs. With proper early training and mental discipline, anyone can write structured code in any computer language.  My college instructor in the early 1970s referred to such programming as "good programming", long before the catch phrases "structured programming" and "object-oriented programming" came into widespread use. --QuicksilverT @ 18:10, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

 * The quote above is not accurate. It should mention the "gosub" statement, not a "goto". A gosub implies a return: "go to subroutine". A "goto" means you never come back.

 * Actually, the use of subroutine calls (such as the primitive gosub) helps eliminate spaghetti code. --Uncle Ed 01:08, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

PJTraill 15:49, 8 April 2006 (UTC) I have largely rewritten this section in accordance with the above observations.

Lo-mein code
A variation of spaghetti code with unreadable and/or outdated and misleading comments. Often includes numerous macros that call other macros that modify global variables.

 * PJTraill 15:59, 8 April 2006 (UTC) Has anyone got a source for this? Does anyone know people who use the term? At it is unclear what it means. It was deleted from Wikipedia: see Articles_for_deletion/Lo-mein_code.

NPOV: line numbering
I don't believe the 2 code fragments really illustrate spaghetti code in a fair way: it makes it seem as though the older style of BASIC, especially the line numbering, is the problem. The 2 code fragments should ostensibly be be written in the same style. I like seeing the BASIC, lord knows it facilitated more than its share of bad code, but as I no longer have access to an interpreter I don't think I can come up with a fully functional "structured" example. Ewlyahoocom 18:53, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

Another example
Just try to figure out how this baby gets the sorting done (it looks like shell sort). It's converted from BASIC to QBASIC. I think it as from a library book I once read when I was little. --Zom-B 00:12, 05 November 2006 (UTC)

SCREEN 0 INPUT "How many numbers to sort? "; T DIM n(T) FOR i = 1 TO T   PRINT "NUMBER:"; i    INPUT n(i) NEXT i 'Calculations: C = T E180: C = INT(C / 2) IF C = 0 THEN GOTO C330 D = T - C E = 1 I220: f = E F230: g = f + C SWAP n(f), n(g) f = f - C IF f > 0 THEN GOTO F230 E = E + 1 IF E > D THEN GOTO E180 GOTO I220 C330: PRINT "The sorted list is" FOR i = 1 TO T   PRINT n(i) NEXT i

Spaghetti code vs monolithic code
I'm looking for the proper terminology that describes code that isn't a jumbled mess per se, but is hard to decouple or modularize. Perhaps this goes hand-in-hand with spaghetti code, but for example monolithic kernel doesn't seem to imply sloppy coding practice. Can the article be made to clarify if and how these things are different? Ham Pastrami (talk) 12:18, 3 April 2008 (UTC)

 * My aunt has been programming when the term was coined, and according to her the term spaghetti code means exactly that and has no connection to control flow at all. The metaphor makes *much* more sense this way: When you have a lump of spaghetty, pulling at any specific noodle will get you the whole ball. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.187.101.243 (talk) 01:17, 3 July 2008 (UTC)

 * Bollocks. Spaghetti code means a tangled indecipherable mess. That's what it has always meant. 194.213.49.62 (talk) 14:37, 30 January 2012 (UTC)

 * NO, they are different things. Monolithic refers to the modular structure of a program. More clearly when there is just one module. Although one can divide the program in several modules, those modules may not be of general use. In such case the program is logically monolithic. I hope that those programs are unthinkable for today programmers, because the majority learn OO languages, where modularization and encapsulation is the normal design in the mind of the programmer.  For the spaghetti, code see my comment about "spaghetti flow diagrams."  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 189.178.45.137 (talk) 05:28, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

The Example
The 2 edits by 81.226.168.117 on 11 February 2007 seem to have "fixed" the example of bad code, by putting the commands in a logical order, the same as if it used FOR loops. It is now fairly readable, and its operation obvious, which surely defeats the object of the example, which is meant to show the confusing nature of spaghetti code. I suggest it should be changed back. 131.111.197.43 (talk) 17:56, 22 October 2008 (UTC)

The plate of spaghetti is technically a bowl of spaghetti.
The rims on the dish in the picture raise up, you see. If the dish were a plate, the rims would be on nearly the same level of the base of the dish. But they're not. The dish is very clearly a bowl. Is it possible someone change this? 71.238.211.166 (talk) 20:04, 29 November 2008 (UTC)

I agree, it definitely looks like a bowl to me. Someone should fix this. 78.82.141.50 (talk) 14:54, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Bowl or plate - are the pasta pictures even necessary at all? Probably not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.158.61.172 (talk) 19:30, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

I agree, Spaghetti picture is really not necessary.Ndkl (talk) 12:18, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
 * i don't agree. the pasta pictures bring some humour and good analogies to the technicalities of "spaghetti, ravioli and lasagna code". love it! --Phneutral (talk) 11:53, 4 October 2011 (UTC)

Source for "Spaghetti with meatballs"
Does anyone know of a source that defines "Spaghetti with Meatballs"? I've been looking but I can't find one and I think one should be added. 173.79.74.195 (talk) 03:57, 17 October 2011 (UTC)

Example again
I think the example of "Spaghetti code" is meek - it's if the example given doesn't quite qualify, since it is just the  version of a   loop. Examples of real spaghetti code should instead provide violation of best practice programming structures, such as jumps into loops, worse, jumps into a block from outside, elaborate 8-loops (instead of a round loop), and  (,   depending on language) clauses emulated by   and abnormal jumps within that select clause. I've programmed in such code once, created by an optimistic non-programmer. Rursus dixit. ( m bork3 !) 14:14, 11 March 2012 (UTC)

I'm also an expert of programming, that's why I don't need to fear of GOTO. It is not made by the devil. It was invented at the earlier times, following the machine coded structure, where there isn't any other option. Later the new languages began to support the structured programming, but you also can write structured programs with GOTO, without DO and others. Yes. The structured programming means to create your program from small elements. A local loop can be done with GOTO very clearly if you don't have other options.

But for God's sake, the example I found here is WRONG! The two codes are not equivalent! The results of them are equal. Now. Type 0 instead of 10 and go ahead. This is a really awkward fail of teaching structured programming. - Orion 8 (talk) 02:04, 27 August 2012 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure what your point here is. It seems like the results are the same. Or is your point that the "spaghetti" example is really not an example of spaghetti at all? I agree with you, it would not have been spaghetti in some year before BASIC had a FOR loop; but today, I think it would qualify as such. Nobody said GOTOs are from the devil, they do have their uses (few and far between as they are). On the contrary, I actually think this is a good simple example of how you can use constructs of a language to make a program more spaghetti-like or less spaghetti-like. You are welcome to add your own example of spaghetti and non-spaghetti code. Fool4jesus (talk) 19:54, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

 * I agree that the example is pretty weak. This is sadly very common when spaghetti code is explained. It often gives the impression that the gotos themselves causes spaghetti code, which is certainly not the case. In this case, the spaghetti example is not complex enough to fully show the problem. If I should propose a very naïve definition of spaghetti code, I would propose "code that cannot be transformed into high-level loops with ease". 192.71.194.251 (talk) 09:31, 4 April 2017 (UTC)

assembly languages have for and while statements?
Of assembly languages, the article says, "... they are low-level programming languages where equivalents for structured control flow statements such as for loops and while loops exist, but are often poorly understood by inexperienced programmers." Is this true? I thought for and while statements were emulated through conditional branching. --Allen (talk) 21:56, 22 December 2012 (UTC)

At least as far as MIPS and x86 assembly are concerned, there's no direct way to achieve loops; you'd usually just use some counter/flag variable and (depending on the assembly) use something like a combination of set less/greater than and branch (not) equal based on the result to a label that jumps you out of the loop or to the beginning again. Are there any sources that indicate that many assembly programmers don't know how to implement these structures? 73.38.177.249 (talk) 18:41, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Lasagna Code
It's pretty silly that the article gives an exact year when the tangential phrase 'lasagna code' was coined, while nothing at all is said about the origin of the term covered by the main article, "spaghetti code". Or what am I missing? Toddcs (talk) 21:54, 12 November 2013 (UTC)

 * Probably because nobody ever bothered researching it or adding it to Wikipedia. I've added a history section, though I doubt it covers the earliest use, and misses much of the term's use from the 1960s and early 1970s. Mind  matrix  01:07, 13 November 2013 (UTC)

Macaroni code
Hi, folks. I just added a new section on "macaroni code," but I'm now having second thoughts because the term does not appear to be in common usage. Google's Ngram viewer indicates that it was far more common in the 1950s: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=macaroni+code but not what it meant at that time. The only other definition for the term I can find is this one: http://theburningmonk.com/2010/01/buzzword-buster-macaroni-code/ which differs from the one I have provided.

Before you reflexively delete my addition, though, please consider the article on Macaronic language that inspired the edit, so you can see where I'm coming from. I believe the HTML/PHP/SQL/JavaScript example I have provided is at least as macaronic as any of the examples given in that article, and so even though the term is not in common usage, I feel that it belongs in the article.

Note, for instance, that the terms "ravioli code" and "lasagna code" are not found in any of the books Google has indexed: https://books.google.com/ngrams/graph?content=ravioli+code%2Clasagna+code — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ben Stallings (talk • contribs) 18:46, 7 January 2014 (UTC)

Is this a joke?
"Ravioli code", "Spaghetti with meatballs"? Really? This is surely an analogy taken far, far too far. Only "Lasagna" and "Macaroni" have citations, but these are weak at best. I propose the entire "Related terms" section is removed, or at very least remove the images of the plates of food, they contribute nothing and add to the satirical feel of the page.

Discussion welcome. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.251.196.62 (talk) 16:05, 28 January 2014 (UTC)

 * I agree! What is going to be next, "chow-main"? Who invented those myths?

 * LOL! Chow mein...that would be funny. On a more serious note, if no citations can be found for it, it may be best to remove the content, as it would likely be a hoax. Me, Myself & I (talk) 06:44, 31 January 2016 (UTC)

Data flow diagrams and spaghetti code
Spaghetti code is not just the use of GOTOs, one can write perfectly structured code using GOTOs, some correspond to the structures of decision (if-then-else) and iteration (while, repeat-until, for-next), other more complex correspond to coroutines. The problem with the use of GOTOs rely one it's origin.

In the context of structured programming, one can design a program by composing the basic structures of imperative languages: assignment, decision, sequence, iteration, abstraction (the use of subroutines/functions). The programmer has to ensure that the program, i.e. the composition of the instructions derived from those structures, transform the initial state of the program (according to the specification) to stop with a state which corresponds to the specified result. If the program was conceived in such way, then implemented in a language which lacks such structures, like the earl BASIC, Fortran, COBOL or an assembler, that does not mean that the program became spaghetti. Or in a more contemporary context, you can design a program using the continuation passing style, obtaining a program with GOTOs, but perfectly structured.

Previous to structured programming, the story was different, many programs were conceived drawing flow diagrams. The programmers that used such technique did not follow the neat composing of instructions. The resulting flow diagrams, had a clumsy shape, hard to read, they were not planar graphs, because they could not be written without crossing lines. Those diagrams seem spaghetti, that is the origin of the term. The corresponding programs had lots of GOTOs, but one could not easily understand them, because it was not clear their structure. More over, on those days many programmers thought that the diagrams where sufficient to document the programs.

As far as I remember, a long time ago, this entry did not have such unfounded statements of different classes of pasta. Instead it had a picture of an spaghetti diagram, to illustrate what this term is about.

I ignore why it was deleted, maybe due to a justified reason like a copyright issue, or just for some kind of sabotage. If someone want to search in the history (about 15 years ago) to know why to restore it, that is one way, or you can work my explanation to rewrite this article. I am tempted to ask it's deletion.
 * See Assemblers and linkers (Part 2: The Assembly Process), p. 16 and Call graph - motion on calls inside sections/labels. RippleSax (talk) 09:29, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

Spaghetti images needed
Without images of Spaghetti, the concept of Spaghetti code can be beyond utterly opaque for some Wiki readers.

Failing to show images of this culinary oddity discriminates against many English as a 2nd Language readers, as this "Turing State Machine Concept" is really hard to understand even for a substantial and substantive percentage of the English global community.

Wikipedia already has a long term and ongoing bad rap for being the Ground Zero for public opinion manipulation when it comes to entire classes of articles.

There is no percentage yet derived, but possibly 10% to 22.5% of Wiki articles should not be read (or used) due to the beyond toxic manipulation originating from governments, corporations and religious groups. This includes a great number of scientific and technical articles that really should be exempted from this problem but because of the Wiki RealPolitik are not.

This article should not be one of them...

Eyreland (talk) 03:15, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Spaghetti code


text:
Category:American academics

Academics who are American citizens or of any nationality who are or have been based in the United States.

title: Category:American academics


text: Category:Academics by nationality

title: Category:Academics by nationality


text:
Glasthule

Glasthule is a suburb of Dublin, Ireland. It is along County Dublin’s south coast, between Dún Laoghaire, Sandycove, Glenageary and Dalkey.

Amenities
Sandycove and Glasthule are served by a number of businesses and amenities, including retail outlets, public houses, a post office, restaurants, cafés and a playschool.

The Presentation Brothers maintain a house in Glasthule and ran Presentation College Glasthule, a secondary school for boys, until 2006. The Harold National School, next door to Presentation Brothers still operates today.

An Aircoach service links the area with Dublin Airport 24 hours a day.

Popular culture
Every year on 16 June it celebrates Bloomsday (the day on which James Joyce's novel Ulysses takes place). The James Joyce Tower is located in nearby Sandycove.

It is the main setting for Jamie O'Neill's 2001 novel At Swim, Two Boys.

title: Glasthule


text: Category:Membrane biology

title: Category:Membrane biology


text:
Florence Eldridge

Florence Eldridge (born Florence McKechnie, September 5, 1901 – August 1, 1988) was an American actress. She was nominated for the Tony Award for Best Actress in a Play in 1957 for her performance in Long Day's Journey into Night.

Early years
Eldridge was born Florence McKechnie in Brooklyn, New York, the daughter of Charles J. McKechnie. She attended public schools, including P.S. 85 and Girls' High School.

Stage
Eldridge made her Broadway debut at age 17 as a chorus member of Rock-a-Bye Baby at the Astor Theatre. The reference book American Theatre: A Chronicle of Comedy and Drama, 1930–1969 noted, "In the 1920s she won major attention in such plays as The Cat and the Canary and Six Characters in Search of an Author."

In 1965, husband Fredric March and she did a world tour under the auspices of the U.S. State Department. Eldridge wrote that they were "experimenting to see if an acting couple doing excerpts from plays on a bare stage could reach and appeal to a worldwide audience."

Personal life
On March 19, 1921, Eldridge married Howard Rumsey, who owned the Empire Theater and the Knickerbocker Players (both in Syracuse) and the Manhattan Players of Rochester. They were wed at her aunt's home in Maplewood, New Jersey.

She was married to Fredric March from 1927 until his death in 1975, and appeared alongside him on stage and in seven films. They adopted two children, Penelope and Anthony. Like her husband, she was a liberal Democrat.

Stage

 * The Cat and the Canary
 * Six Characters in Search of an Author
 * An Enemy of the People
 * Long Day's Journey Into Night
 * The Skin of Our Teeth
 * The Autumn Garden

Screen

 * Six Cylinder Love (1923) as Marilyn Sterling
 * The Studio Murder Mystery (1929) as Blanche Hardell
 * The Greene Murder Case (1929) as Sibella Greene
 * Charming Sinners (1929) as Helen Carr
 * The Divorcee (1930) as Helen
 * The Matrimonial Bed (1930) as Juliet Corton
 * Thirteen Women (1932) as Grace Coombs
 * The Great Jasper (1933) as Jenny Horn
 * Dangerously Yours (1933) as Jo Horton
 * The Story of Temple Drake (1933) as Ruby Lemarr
 * A Modern Hero (1934) as Leah Ernst
 * Les Misérables (1935) as Fantine
 * Mary of Scotland (1936) as Elizabeth Tudor
 * Another Part of the Forest (1948) as Lavinia Hubbard
 * An Act of Murder (1948) as Catherine Cooke
 * Christopher Columbus (1949) as Queen Isabella
 * Inherit the Wind (1960) as Sarah Brady

title: Florence Eldridge


text: Category:Polish people by occupation

title: Category:Polish people by occupation