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Talk:The Sims Online

Wrong company infos !
Maxis is dead since they are in EA, since 2007 the Maxis logo was removed from The Sims franchise ! It's no longer Maxis but it's EA Games only. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.52.208.241 (talk) 13:26, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

Code Red?
The Sims Online is currently in a zone of 'Code Red'. This means that The Sims online has less players than it did earlier, due to extreme botting Cheat programs in which causes players to stop playing. See below under 'economy' for more on the issue.

The sentences above are not structured very well and when did this 'Code Red' phenomenon start? I've never heard of it (I've heard of the cheating, but have not heard of it being referred to as 'Code Red'). Would someone mind clarifying and editing this information? --Funnykidrian 20:05, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Rules
Simolean selling is not illegal, while botting is illegal. Stratics, while the official message boards, bans people from posting, and allows others to scam in the Swap Meet section. I do not think it should be listed, and think that Stratics is basically unfair, since many moderators believe they run the game, when in fact, all they do is play it. They have an unfair influence on the game, which is why I removed it from the External Links. --DaKing 20:51, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

Rules
I do know that. But also, since Stratics is the only news source for The Sims Online, I feel it needs to stay in the site section. --Smuznikrovf 22:51, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

My Opinion (on the scandal)
I don't really think the scandal should even be part of this discussion anymore. He doesn't play the game anymore, and he never did anything good for the game. He spread bad publicity for The Sims Online in order to make himself popular. He violated the Terms of Service, which is the real reason why he was banned. There is no secret agenda, and there is no scandal. Many people are banned on a weekly basis for breaking the rules, and he was just 1 person who did this. Yet, he made a stink, and got airtime from the wonderful newspapers in the world who didn't have enough murders to cover the headlines with, hence the "TSO scandal." Can we drop this crap, and talk about the game, the updates, and concentrate on TSO as a game, and even avoid the Stratics groupies and the same people getting the spotlight, over and over again. - --DaKing 20:19, 26 February 2006 (UTC)

Release date
The article states that it was both released in November of 2002 and December of 2002. Which is it? — Frecklefoot | Talk 20:17, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

There were a string of "Open Betas" for the program, with the last one occuring in November 2002. On Thanksgiving they wiped all the servers, and restarted with a 1 week free open pre-release. The game was officially released to stores in December, with the free pre-release ending in January 2003. At that point anybody that did not purchase the game had their account suspended. Mushrom (talk) 15:40, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Scandal
This subject should be addressed in greater depth (for example, what kind of criminality was discovered?) A link to the story would be a good start. Cohen the Bavarian 21:32, 17 Jan 2005 (UTC)

My guess is that the scandal(s) referred to are the much publicized exposures of professor Peter Ludlow, which first hit the big news in The New York Times on January 15 2004, I believe. Ludlow has put a wealth of material on his internet site www.alphavilleherald.com including links to other sources, so that might be one relevant link to include. -Morten R. Sorensen 14 Apr 2005

 * There is now nothing on the allegations of impropriety in the article. This is unacceptable for wikipedia, if you ask me.

Some subjective thoughts on the "Scandal" part
I won't, at least as of yet, try to suggest an actual edit of the Scandal part of this article, but I do feel like adding some comments I feel relevant to take into consideration.

The article ends with the statement, "As of yet Maxis's only response has been to ban the researchers from the game." This is, to the best of my knowledge, accurate. However, while at a quick glance it looks fairly objectively phrased, my feel is that it could come bring across a feeling that there's something suspicious about Maxis' silence, the more so because of the use of the word "researchers" which is likely to create an image of scientists conducting unbiased investigation in many minds. While Ludlow has beyond any doubt carried out much investigation right down to actually involving himself in the game, questions may certainly be raised about his bias. This is not intended as a criticism of Ludlow who has every right to promote his own agenda, just a reminder that he certainly has one of those, and that any mention of his work here ought to reflect that. That agenda, simply put, is trying to force Maxis to impose a much higher level of censorship onto the game than it currently employs, particularly when it comes to controversial sexual themes played out through game characters, e.g. prostitution and sado-masochism. (Recently he has directed his efforts to another on-line game, which is reflected in a change of title of his site, though, suggesting to me that he finds "worse" things going on there.) It should be noticed that Ludlow clearly acknowledges that he does have a cause, in that the motto of his site is the charmingly humorous motto, "Always fairly unbalanced".

A neat little irony in the whole matter is that Ludlow and his fellow critics of Maxis have made a public issue out of their demand for censorship is being censored by Maxis, in that Maxis is supposed to "go after" any linking to the Alphaville Herald site internally in the game and affiliated sites. They also often claim that Maxis is catching them on technicalities when trying to hush them up, the technicality in the question mentioned being that the Alphaville Herald links to ways of hard-to-catch game cheating, which is clearly against Maxis' interest to promote; the more so as the internal in-game money is now being traded for real money on sites like e-bay. This, of course, is makes Ludlow see the internal TSO money as a fully-fledged real currency, and fuels his claims that what may be seen as a game representation of prostitution by players is indeed real prostitution.

The above comments made by a user who wasn't trying to hide in anonymity, but as a new contributor forgot to log in, for which he begs forgiveness. Morten R. Sorensen 17:41, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Mafia section is misleading
The information on there appears to say that nothing has been done to combat the Mafia gangs in The Sims Online. This is untrue, seeing as Maxis/EA has changed the way friendship webs worked. There is also a sentence saying that illegal activities occur, which I personally do not see. If they mean the EA.com Terms of Service, it should state so, otherwise it is misleading. Zachnorn 10:42, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

Removed Copyvio
I removed a huge chunk of copied info from the page, copied from here. -Localzuk (talk) 00:45, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Sims Online in Wikibooks
Remember, you can also write guides about the game in the Sims Online section of this article. Improvements and additions are welcome! ╫ ２５ ◀RingADing▶  09:38, 12 February 2006 (UTC) ╫

Recent Edits
I think the following part should be revised/removed from the Overview section:

 * The Sims Online has been completely ignored by the EA/Maxis Staff. There have been no updates since 2005. The game's economy has hit an all time low and the population is at the bare minimum to even keep a server open for.

Although there have not been significant updates to the game for a while, various contests are still being held by EA (i.e. the recent TSO Jokes Contest - see the TSO website on Stratics for details). --Funnykidrian 05:20, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Large Edit
I've finished a large edit that used the information present in the article and attempted to make it easier to read/comprehend. Let me know if anyone figures out what the "group money objects" is meant to be, I bulldozed over at least a few of those in the process, then gave up near the end. My excuse is that I have a cold today. --Mr.Bunny 18:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

 * I think the "group money objects" are the money-making objects that you could only use in a group. For example, in order to operate a pizza-making oven, exactly four players need to use the oven. If they are successful at making a pizza, all four players are paid a certain amount of simoleans (the currency in the game). --Funnykidrian 06:49, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Newer TSO Developments
Developers of the sims online are currently revamping major parts of the system (allowing custom content, reworking much of the game code, improving graphics, etc.) I, personally, this that this should be mentioned somewhere in the article. Anyone with a firm understanding of whats being revamped willing to contribute?

Ts1and2fanatic (talk) 00:41, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

No mention of controversy at all?
Seriously this page reads like half-assed ad copy. No mention whatsoever of the presence of organized crime rings, extortion rackets, child prostitution rings, etc. This game is one of the most infamous in online gaming for this kind of thing, and yet the article seems to have been deliberately sanitized in it's entirety, right down to every last statement making a point to cite the lead developer. This seems frankly irresponsible. --66.220.104.149 (talk) 21:44, 27 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Any evidence? Sources? -Localzuk(talk) 22:09, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Sims Online was a rather short lived phenomenon. Starting shortly before Second Life, within 6 months it saw it's population decline sharply. This was due to the graphics rapidly growing outdated (based on The Sims 1 graphics). Plus many of the features that were promised were either very delayed in their release (jobs), or never really completed.

I played the game, and there were no real prostitution rings, or extortion. Yes there was sex, but compared to Second Life, it is cartoonish and comical. And with the ability to ban "griefers", the mafias were never as fearsome as they wanted to believe. And considering the game is gone now, it is rather pointless to mention thingsthat were never a major issue. Mushrom (talk) 16:14, 28 June 2009 (UTC)

Logo?
That is not the official logo, is it? I thought the official one is that really gaudy one with all the colors?

I could of sworn this is user made and was posted on the Stratics TSO board... if that is the case, it should clearly be taken down and replaced with the real one.69.121.66.69 (talk) 20:15, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

Product name is written wrong
EA Land is written everywhere, including the official website, as "EA-Land". I suggest we move it to the official name of "EA-Land" instead of "EA Land". Agree? -Smiley Barry [ USER ] [ TALK ]   [ SL ] 22:58, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

Cheat Codes?
Are there chaet cdes for ealand and how do you get monet on it on the begining Save The Humans  Talk  :)  23:12, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * There's no cheat codes, and the only way to get money is to get a job. Bear in mind that Wikipedia is not a site that gives guides to playing games. Jammy (talk) 08:33, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

EA Land will be closed
EA Land will be closed... http://www.ea-land.ea.com/blog/?p=1156 --José Roberto A. JR. (talk) 23:52, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Moving this page
I have fixed the article and talk page histories along with associated redirects which were messed up by multiple page moves. If this page needs to be moved again please feel free to carry out, however please do not make copy and paste moves, use the move button. Camaron | Chris (talk) 12:42, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Needs more game information
This entry doesn't give much in the way of what the game actually *IS*. There's far too much focus on the game shutting down than how the game got started, why it failed, and comparison to other Sims games. --69.149.215.102 (talk) 05:31, 18 July 2008 (UTC)

Sims Online
Sims Online was a virtual world in which you could visit other peoples' lots and even build your own if you wanted to, just like in the standalone version only it had 1 speed and you could chat to other people.

In its early days most lots were pretty much the same large meta homes which would have everything in them from money making equipment to slot machines to kitchens and even beds.

EA eventually implemented a design feature for players to select what type of home they wanted like work places, entertainment, living quarters, or romance, and the type of furnishings would then be limited to the type chosen. This was to force variety into the lots so that not all lots were the same meta homes. Instead it resulted in a large number of lots being either work places or online brothels, strip clubs, and even crack houses.

Much of the game fell due to the perverse nature of its players and to game exploits. It developed an unofficial name Sex Online as it became overrun with online brothels. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.2.143.44 (talk) 14:30, 9 September 2010 (UTC)

Name change/closure section
I propose moving this closer to the end, if no one objects...makes little sense (to me, anyway) to start off the article talking about the game's demise.-- Susan118  talk  21:40, 6 December 2010 (UTC)

TSO Restoration Project
There is a project currently dedicated to bringing TSO back on a private server. This is relevant to the topic of The Sims Online so I have added it. It has a verified reference. If anyone has any objections, please discuss here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by GhostV (talk • contribs) 19:55, 27 January 2011 (UTC)

 * A mention will work, yes. But not in the game's description. Spam. X-Fi6 (talk) 21:59, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

X-Fi6 You are a former Developer for the said project. You have been one since October and I'm sure have seen the update to this Wiki relating to the project before June 9th. You have left the project on bad terms and only decided to edit the page after your departure. -This makes me conclude that your objection to the properly placed and sited mention of a private server is bias and not motivated on the best interests of the Wiki.

I'll edit it back to what it was before (which has gone un-objected by third party observers since it's creation) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Syndicat0 (talk • contribs) 23:27, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

 * I can't help the "negative stance" you might associate me with after being booted from the team. But the aim of Wikipedia isn't to present the user with "relevant" content, but encyclopedic relevant content. This 3rd-party TSORestoration team hasn't provided a drop of working progress, especially not to public eyes, so how can they be notable enough to belong in the historical summary of The Sims Online? What significance do these freelance programmers hold on the overview of the game this article brushes, The Sims Online? To clarify, I'm not against the website's mention in the article, but I am if it's in the article's summary. X-Fi6 (talk) 04:03, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

X-Fi6,

My objection to your edit was that anything you put is bias. Your recent statement proves that. As for your claims that they are insignificant to the importance of "The Sims Online" simply due to lack of progress, there has been releases of trial clients on the website along with YouTube videos on their channel. http://www.youtube.com/TSORestoration http://www.tsorestoration.com/forum/index.php?/topic/1131-tsor-first-test/

It is clear that your editing is extremely bias and malicious. I only ask that you revert the edit back to it's original state where it has been uncontested by third party observers. Please allow any further edit to be done only by a third party observer. This is a reasonable request to maintain the legitimacy of the Wiki. The mention of a private server in development is extremely relevant and in no way unusual for other online game articles to have such in the historical summary. Please find a more productive way to spend your time.

On a personal note, I don't have a "negative stance" towards you - I don't know you, I just know you're extremely bias and your editing of this article is proven to be maliciously intended due to the timing and your affiliation (formerly) with the said content in question. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Syndicat0 (talk • contribs) 04:51, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Personal background shouldn't have any effect on deciding whether the content you push is biased or not. Not on the one wiki the world depends on, that anybody can edit, anonymous or not. So I wonder if we can get a Wikipedia mod/admin to close the case on this issue, since I know I'm right. You can't just advertise "Hurr durr I'm bringing back The Sims Online here's this menu I made in GameMaker to prove it" and, essentially, be put in the opening paragraph in the textbooks. Remember, Wikipedia is a website that anybody can edit. Having a personal affiliation with a topic isn't enough to even let you add content without citations. You argue that because my personal background causes me to be biased, it directly makes the edits I make "malicious" (as you put it) and not worth considering.  Whatever the case, a third opinion, unaffiliated with the website, on deciding the most appropriate location for the mentioning of this website's efforts, would be helpful. X-Fi6 (talk) 05:55, 20 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Just one more thing: Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. Other similar "projects" you cite which made it to the articles of other online games have delivered their promises. But we have no working date of when TSO Restoration will be relevant to the reader. X-Fi6 (talk) 13:16, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

Third Opinion?
I'm not quite sure what the dispute is about. If private individuals are set on trying to resurrect the game in their own time and this is supported by reliable sources then it deserves a quick mention. But unless these amateur/independent developers played a defining role in the Sims Online there is simply no case to include their actions in the lead or the body. Wikifan Be nice 07:25, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

 * Per the third opinion, I believe placing the project's mention in the Name change and closure body paragraph will improve the quality of the article. I'll wait 24 hours to give Syndicat0 time to respond. X-Fi6 (talk) 20:59, 20 June 2011 (UTC)

- X-Fi6, I simply requested that you leave the article along with any further edits to be done by a third party. The fact that you only choose to edit the article (after it was left the way it was for a six month period of time, in which you have viewed it without contesting it's relevance) shows that whatever you're doing is not in the best interest of improving the article but rather based on your personal feelings.

I believe that, former players of The Sims Online would benefit from the easy, properly cited and properly mentioned existence of a private server under works. This is probably something that would have a significant impact on any reader of this Wikipedia page and deserves a primary mention in the summary. The fact that a community of over 3000 users, former The Sims Online players now exists due to it's mention on the Wikipedia article is a testament to the importance of this project on the now retired game.

The establishment of a private server is completely irrelevant to "name change and closure" of the game. It shouldn't be hidden in the bottom of the article in a category completely unrelated to the topic. I'd also like to point out that your intentions are not for the benefit of the "wiki" but rather a malicious effort to try and hide the existence of the project due to your own new found personal feelings towards it. If your goal is to make wiki a better encyclopedia, than having an easy to find reference point for something that would mean a lot to users who view the page makes logical sense. Stop making changes for things that don't need to be changed and no one worried about before you were removed from the team on bad terms. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Syndicat0 (talk • contribs) 02:01, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

 * How does the statement, "We're bringing back the game", mean anything? I can see how powerful it is in your eyes, as it's you who holds personal feelings about the project, not I. As I've said: Wikipedia is not a crystal ball. The project offers nothing to the table at the moment to warrant its inclusion in the article, yet your stance on its inclusion in the article is that "it'll eventually get there". First of all, anybody can make dramatic statements, but they don't belong in the opening paragraph of an encyclopedia. Second, quoting Wikipedia:

 * Again, no matter how important you think their notion that they'll one day bring back the game is, it is best left out of the article (out of the lead-in) until it happens. Thanks. X-Fi6 (talk) 02:22, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

 * A few last comments before I make the edit:
 * The website does not have 3,000 users. Only 500 of them have actually made a single post. You won't believe how many spam posts we had to delete every day, while, get this, the administrators never deleted the spam accounts. (500 and even 3,000 people are hardly notable, anyway. Do Facebook groups ever land on Wikipedia?)
 * An administrator of Wikipedia has in the past removed the link to TSO Restoration. Link
 * Other users have too. Link Link
 * We've had some truly malicious edits in the past, caused by TSO Restoration community users. Link Link (edit is not on topic) Link
 * Again, I'm fine with the link, but the link belongs as "further information" once the reader has read the gist of the actual game.
 * X-Fi6 (talk) 19:27, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

You're clearly very passionate about this issue! I'm sure it has absolutely NOTHING to do with your feelings towards the project. That is why you choose to edit article immediately after being removed from the team. Not a day before! Fun fact: The last registered user ID on the website on their profile URL is: 4203, the website claims to have 3707 registered users at this time. 496 spam accounts have been deleted and every new spam account that has been discovered is flagged as a spammer and promptly deleted from the database. I'm sure the administrators can verify this. OH.. also: The Administrator removed the direct link, not the mention of the project which was properly cited by a respected reference. We're very fortunate to have such dedicated individuals looking out for the best interests of improving The Sims Online Wiki article. Keep up the good work, hero. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Syndicat0 (talk • contribs) 22:14, 21 June 2011 (UTC)

 * It's not worth arguing anymore. You back your original reasoning (importance of the project's claim which has no clear date for finish, size of the userbase—with 500->3000= 500% extrapolation—, the belief that bias makes edits automatically nonconstructive) each time you respond now, when they've been refuted. I'm here to protect Wikipedia. You're here to advertise. And posting the link there in the lead-in is advertising because the website isn't notable, which I've covered above. If you still believe otherwise, you can follow these steps.

 * Here is the summary of the dispute:

 * X-Fi6 (talk) 02:09, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Even if I did make such claims, I do not speak on behalf of TSO Restoration but only as another concerned Wikipedia user. The wording and interpretation is also different from everything I said. I am proposing that your editing was based on personal feelings which is why I asked that you don't edit this article. You can argue that you're allowed to edit and lie about how this all for the "good of Wikipedia" but you and I both know that this edit was done immediately after you were removed from the team - making it malicious, bias and pointless. The fact that you choose to spend this much energy on taking the mention of the potential private server off the article summary NOW, instead of the six-month period of time when you've seen the article before and done nothing proves this. The fact of the matter is, this mention would be better in the summary and not in "name change and closure." You're not the sole authority of Wikipedia, it is not your place to say that "it is not worth arguing anymore." Good encyclopedic content is one that is filled with as much verified facts as possible and placed correctly. This mention meets all the criteria, there was no claim that you project would be successful, only a mention that the project was in existence. For people interested in The Sims Online, having it easily viewable in a correctly placed area of the article would enhance Wikipedia. Life, like Wikipedia rules, are not black and white. If your intention is really to provide this specific article with relevant encyclopedia content, you'll stop spending your time trying to remove it from it's uncontested place previous to you leaving the team. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Syndicat0 (talk • contribs) 18:40, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

^ I pledge to step away from editing the article, I agree that X-Fi6 should as well. That was my original intent - to point out the conflict of interest of his edits. I'd also like to point out that the cited mention never said it was "released, close to release, or soon to be released" or stated any project/developmental success. It simply stated the existence of the said project, which relates to the topic of The Sims Online, as other projects (in development or no longer in develoment) involving private servers for games are found throughout various game articles on Wikipedia. This is in no way unusual for a quick mention to be noted. It can only add to the encyclopedic value of Wikipedia. Knowledge is power. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Syndicat0 (talk • contribs) 21:48, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * It doesn't matter my intentions. Your passion to advertise the website in the lead-in is obvious and doing so reduces the quality of the article. Also, my wording and interpretation is a summary of everything you brought up to put reason into putting the advert in the lead-in. You can't turn around now, saying "That's not what I said". I said that it wasn't worth arguing anymore because you had exhausted all your reasons and started to reuse them. I've answered them.  Finally, placing the mention in the lead-in won't help Wikipedia because it brings NOTHING to The Sims Online, as of yet, and it will be completely irrelevant in that location. Placed in the correct category, it seems "buried in the article" to you because you only hope for lots and lots of people to see it, rather than caring for the interests of the actual article. X-Fi6 (talk) 19:30, 22 June 2011 (UTC)
 * After just a quick glace at what is going on, I agree with X-Fi6. It is not notable enough for the lead, if at all for the article. Maybe if it gets closer to release, or the development of it gets significant coverage. Also, please calm down, both of you. This is just a Wikipedia article. According to the stats, 450 people read the article per day. It really doesn't matter. I think BOTH of you need to step away from the article due to possible WP:COI violations. Blake (Talk·Edits) 21:20, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

As a general rule, I'd argue it is better to have a little more knowledge than a little less knowledge. Things like this are clearly not black or white, as you'll find a List of Video Game Emulators on Wikipedia as well. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_video_game_console_emulators | The article is cited from a reliable source. I don't think there was ever any question about that and I'm sure I can find additional reliable sources if one is not enough. As for significant coverage, do a google search and you'll see the impact on hundreds of websites. I won't do any further edits but this is some food for thought. I really do not see how how a quick fact-based and properly cited mention does anything negative to the quality of the article. Syndicat0 (talk) 02:45, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Heh, we do each have a personal motivation in winning this dispute, but not (purposely) in conflict of interest with the article. So it's not irrational that we've been fighting to the bone over this one article. As long as Wikipedia doesn't take damage, it's alright. Fortunately, neither of us threatened the other or made insults. We didn't have a C&D for defamation (lol) . I had time for this because I'm a summerfag at the moment. Don't know if the other guy has a job. Overall, I had fun with this debate. I guess I'll lay off now. X-Fi6 (talk) 00:09, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Well, the thing is that just because it exists does not mean you should put it in the article. There is not a List of unofficial Pokémon games. Only things with significant coverage in third party reliable sources are notable. One source just saying this "remake" "is coming" does not allow it to be on Wikipedia, even as a mention in the article, much less in the lead of the article. Blake (Talk·Edits) 02:02, 23 June 2011 (UTC)
 * Yes, some emulators are notable, and some fan-made games are notable, but they usually are not. This fanmade revival of this game does not seem to be notable. Is this the only source you can find? It does not seem to be very reliable, as it looks like a random blog. Thus, it should not be mentioned in the article. If it gets coverage in third party reliable sources, then it can be mentioned, maybe even to a larger degree depending on the coverage amount. I am going to WP:IAR and just let this be, because I frankly don't care. I am just letting you know why it isn't allowed, and why somebody else might want to remove it. Blake (Talk·Edits) 14:42, 23 June 2011 (UTC)

Forth opinion
TSOR should be mentioned since it was popular enough to draw EA's attention months before it the cease and diciest was revealed, but it should be kept short and to the point. Plus I should mention that before the project closed, the source code was released to the public on Google Code. --Zc456 (talk) 22:18, 7 January 2012 (UTC)

→This is just a quick reminder to anyone who would attempt to add a note to this dead project again, this project is long dead and obviously deserves no mention, but, the EA letter was never proven. It was more than likely written up by the project leader, Ghost, and posted. They gained thousands of dollars in donations and then shut the website down. I'm pretty sure the entire project was a scam operation from start to finish. 74.134.85.71 (talk) 18:47, 16 June 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:The Sims Online


text:
User talk:SeanDuggan

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~ ~ ~. Four tildes (~ ~ ) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! (although you've been here a while, and it's a disgrace that no-one has rolled over here before to say "hi") -- John Fader 20:18, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * How to edit a page
 * Editing tutorial
 * Picture tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Naming conventions
 * Manual of Style

Slashdot subculture
I was wondering if you had a particular reason for removing the memes which you had just added from the trolling section? you mentioned you moved them, and the talk pages don't really enlighten me much. They're pretty valid for inclusion somewhere in some article, and was wondering where they were ending up? Thanks. --ABQCat 09:51, 10 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Furthermore, you removed information on the "In Korea/old people" meme. This meme is valid. I was one of the first people to use it :-) -- Coop 03:07, 18 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Jungle (Board Game) moved to Jungle (board game)
Sean, I moved the Jungle (Board Game) article to Jungle (board game) (notice the capitalization change). This is the standard way to name articles, just like Go (board game). Thanks for your edits on Wikipedia! You know, if you're ambitious, you could create a template for Jungle board positions so that you can have pretty graphical outputs (for the way it's done in the chess pages, see how the Template:Chess position is used in the Chess page) - grubber 13:07, 2005 July 28 (UTC)

Ancient Japanese Weights and Measurements
Translate http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alte_Ma%C3%9Fe_und_Gewichte_%28Japan%29

Tartan and shortbread history
Regarding your recent edit at Tartan where you were interested in a citation for the derogatory use of "tartan" to refer to something Scottish:

http://scottishsocialistparty.info/archive/2004_04_04_newsarchive.html

See the "Pack up the old kilt bag" article from which I quote (emphasis mine):

"Tartan Day is actually a repackaging exercise it is the repackaging and the burying of our history. I was duff at school and fell asleep during History, yet I still learned all about English kings, the Battle of Hastings, Victoria and Albert, etc.

"All of which I am grateful for but I have asked my folks and friends and not one of them learned much about this monumental part of Scottish history until they sought it out themselves. Why are we not out partying in the streets as we recall the day when our comparatively small country told the rest of the world that it would 'set people above the King'? The declaration is a plea for liberty and freedom. Not the tartan and shortbread type of freedom real freedom and equality and peace."

Herre the reference is to "tartan and shortbread history", which would mean a view of Scottish history devoid of any real substantive analysis and instead consisting of various colorful legends, pageantry, glorious battle history, kings and nobles genealogy, etc. In fact, I have often seen this phrase used in similar fashion, not just in reference to the history of Scotland. Search Google using the terms "tartan and shortbread" and history, for example.

It is true that the history of Highland traditions especially (the clans, kilts, and tartans) is rife with legend and mythology.

I'll leave it up to you whether you want to restore or expand on the reference in some form.

JFPerry 00:01, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Coldfire trilogy
Thanks for your help! My sister has checked out my article and is now doing her own major revisions, but any help from anybody, including you, will be appriciated. Thanks! - Daimetreya

Push the ground vs. push up
what exactly was the reason for changing "push the ground" to "push ups", it's the same thing just with different wording. Bignole 14:23, 19 December 2005 (EST)
 * To be honest, I have never heard the phrase "push the ground" before and thought it sounded like a bad translation. Does the coach actually tell them to "push the ground" or somesuch? -Fuzzy 20:10, 19 December 2005 (UTC)
 * You've never been told to "push the ground", "eat dirt", "kiss the pavement"? ...lol...ok. Um, I'm pretty sure that he doesn't say let's do some "push ups", but he may not have said anything at all and just implied it. I will go back and check it and let you know his exact words.

 * His exact words were "assume the position" Bignole

FFvtTR "nonsense"
Sorry about that. I didn't realize that it was about a computer game (probably was patrolling too fast). I thought that it was a real military initiative (doesn't "Freedom Force" remind you of "Iraqi freedom"?), and witches aren't real. Again, I apolagize.

Lee S. Svoboda tɑk 16:32, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

Page name for temperature articles
To avoid flip-flopping between 'degree Fahrenheit' and 'Fahrenheit' or 'degree Celsius' and 'Celsius', I propose that we have a discussion on which we want. I see you have contributed on units of measurement, please express your opinion at Talk:Units of measurement. Thanks. bobblewik 22:09, 12 February 2006 (UTC)

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Not that I know of.

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Plays
I've pretty much abandoned the practice of judging things as "not notable" based on their articles; what I use instead as a deletion rationale is "notability not asserted". And that was the problem with the article. Even though it had been in existence for a month... and even though you had "promise(d) to add some more info later"... your submission was pretty well empty. "This was a play produced in London in 1989. It was written by a guy with a really common name. It has a cast of 10. Here's the synopsis! Here's a list of characters!"

That is all that the article said.

This tells us nothing about why anyone would care. Did it play nightly for eleven months to SRO crowds in the West End, or was it such a flop that the script is being used to torture prisoners at Gitmo? Did the cast and crew receive OBEs, MBEs, CBEs and knighthoods, or was it thrown together by an ambitious fourteen-year-old who was able to convince his teacher that it would be a Really Fun Project for their Thursday afternoon drama class?

Tell you what I'll do. You can re-create the article - but do it in a subpage of your userspace. Once it's done, let me see it; if it's good, I'll move it out to mainspace, and merge the deleted revisions into the history. Okay? DS (talk) 14:32, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Re Freedom Force
At the very least, are so many, many details needed? Lots42 (talk) 23:03, 30 July 2008 (UTC)

Re:"Edit Summary Vandalism" on Zillions of Games article
Sorry about giving you a shock by deleting that article! It was purely for housekeeping reasons; no opinion one way or the other here. Yes, it was something about inflicting torturous pain on another editor, although I have no clue what precipitated it. There's some history here that I'm not sure I want to know about. Anyway, I probably should have added a note to the deletion reason along the lines of "be right back" so I don't worry watchlisters! Will do in the future. ... disco spinster   talk  20:53, 19 August 2008 (UTC)

Plastic Slap Wraps Springs?
Can you tell me where you have ever seen plastic springs used in what are now generically referred to as Slap Bracelets? I am Stuart Anders, the original inventor of the product. I've restarted production of the original Slap Wraps on the 20th anniversary of it release. I'm going into the entire Wiki history and clearing up all of the bad information posted. Your help in tracking down the plastic springs would be greatly appreciated. Also any information you have about the springs wearing out and causing injury would be appreciated. SkipsToys —Preceding unsigned comment added by SkipsToys (talk • contribs) 01:44, 5 August 2010 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:53, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:SeanDuggan


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Bethlehem Township

Bethlehem Township may refer to:

Indiana

 * Bethlehem Township, Cass County, Indiana
 * Bethlehem Township, Clark County, Indiana

Missouri

 * Bethlehem Township, Henry County, Missouri

New Jersey

 * Bethlehem Township, New Jersey

Ohio

 * Bethlehem Township, Coshocton County, Ohio
 * Bethlehem Township, Stark County, Ohio

Pennsylvania

 * Bethlehem Township, Pennsylvania

title: Bethlehem Township


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Talk:Brett Cloutman

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User:Hugokohn

Hi everybody. I am Hugo, and especially interested in politics and history.

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User talk:Hugokohn

Hi, let me know, what you think. Hugo.

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Kshemaraja

Rajanaka Kṣemarāja (क्षेमराज) (late 10th to early 11th century) was a philosopher disciple of Abhinavagupta, who was considered a master of tantra, yoga, poetics, and dramaturgy. Not much is known of Kṣemarāja's life or parentage. His chief disciple was a sage known as Yogāraja. The Pratyabhijnahridayam, a work in which Kṣemarāja brings the main tenets of the Pratyabhijna system into a succinct set of sutras for those who may not have studied in-depth metaphysics, occupies the same place in Kashmir Shaivite or Trika literature as Vedanta Sara does in Vedanta. Other works of his: Spandasandoha, Spandanirnaya, Svacchandodyota, Netrodyota, Vijnanabhairavodyota, Shivasutravimarsini, Stavacintamanitika, Parapraveshika, Tattvasandoha. "'Man bound in all the phases of waking, dream and dreamless sleep by the body, prana, pleasure, etc. does not recognize his own consciousness which is of the nature of the great power and full of perfect bliss.' -- Kṣemarāja"

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User talk:Weatherbug33

Please stop. If you continue to vandalize pages, you will be blocked from editing Wikipedia. CryptoDerk 20:23, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Weatherbug33


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Talk:In Case You Didn't Feel Like Showing Up

Different recording date
In the end credits of the video it's stated that it was filmed at the Riviera Nightclub in Chicago. According to other sources on the internet listing up tour dates, the band only visited Chicago once during the 89-90 tour, on the 31. December 1989. Meaning that it was a new year's eve concert and in fact the last concert of the 1980's. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.209.88.240 (talk) 22:25, 28 February 2012 (UTC)
 * That was only a few video clips they edited in during the last song. The Master ---)Vote Saxon(--- 00:25, 2 September 2015 (UTC)


text:
Morris Township

Morris Township may refer to:

Canada

 * Morris Township, Ontario, now part of the municipality of Morris-Turnberry

United States

 * Morris Township, Arkansas County, Arkansas in Arkansas County
 * Morris Township, Grundy County, Illinois
 * Morris Township, Sumner County, Kansas in Sumner County
 * Morris Township, Stevens County, Minnesota
 * Morris Township, New Jersey
 * Morris township, Ramsey County, North Dakota in Ramsey County
 * Morris Township, Knox County, Ohio
 * Morris Township, Okmulgee County, Oklahoma, part of which is the city of Morris
 * Morris Township, Clearfield County, Pennsylvania
 * Morris Township, Greene County, Pennsylvania
 * Morris Township, Huntingdon County, Pennsylvania
 * Morris Township, Tioga County, Pennsylvania
 * Morris Township, Washington County, Pennsylvania

title: Morris Township


text:
BFI IMAX

The BFI IMAX is an IMAX cinema in the South Bank district of London, just north of Waterloo station. It is owned and operated by the British Film Institute. From 2012 until 2022, it was operated by Odeon Cinemas.

The cinema is located in the centre of a roundabout junction with Waterloo Road to the south-east, Stamford Street to the north-east, York Road to the south-west and Waterloo Bridge to the north-west.

History
BFI IMAX was designed by Bryan Avery of Avery Associates Architects and completed in May 1999. The screen is the largest in Britain (20m high and 26m wide). It has a seating capacity of 500 and a 14,000 Watt digital surround sound system. Although the site is surrounded by traffic and has an underground line just four metres below, the architects and engineers accounted for this in their design and the entire upper structure sits on anti vibration bearings to prevent noise propagation.

The cinema won several awards at the time of opening, including a Design Council Millennium Product Award in 1999 and a Civic Trust Award in 2000.

In 2012, the screen was replaced and a digital IMAX projector was installed alongside the existing 70mm projector. In July 2012, the BFI announced that Odeon Cinemas had been selected to operate it for the next five years, with the option of termination after three years. Odeon maintained the film programmes, and booking of tickets online and by telephone. This gave customers the opportunity to watch operas on the giant screen. The BFI retained power over the cinema's operation however, including parts of the film schedule, the name and the technical operation.

To start this move to mainstream cinema, the BFI London IMAX theatre celebrated by having sold 66,000 pre-booked tickets for The Dark Knight Rises in just 5 weeks, giving a total sale in tickets of £1,000,000 even before the premiere of the movie.

In June 2022, the BFI announced that its ten year concessions deal with Odeon would end on 19 July 2022, with the BFI regaining control of operations. The cinema closed on this date, with a planned re-opening on 22 July.

Other IMAX cinemas in London
London has another traditional IMAX cinema at the Science Museum in South Kensington and in December 2008 gained IMAX digital cinemas at Odeon cinemas in Greenwich and Wimbledon. In 2011, a digital IMAX screen was also opened at the Odeon in Swiss Cottage.

Screen size comparative to other London large screens
The BFI IMAX is the largest cinema screen in the United Kingdom. It measures 25.9m (85 feet) wide by 19.8m (65 feet) high with a total screen size of 512.8m² (289m² for a 2.39:1 film, 363m² for a 1.85:1 film, 469m² for an IMAX 1.43:1 film). Before its October 2022 refurbishment it measured 26.5m wide by 20m high, which meant that if showing a film with an aspect ratio of 2.39:1, only 293m² of the screen will be in use, or 379m² for a 1.85:1 film, or 491m² for an IMAX 1.43:1 film. The auditorium seats 493, including 4 wheelchair spaces.

title: BFI IMAX


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User talk:Nawab

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~ ~ ~. Four tildes (~ ~ ) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! -- John Fader 20:25, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
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Talk:Filth Pig

Fair use rationale for Image:Filthpig.jpg
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Viktor Tsoi

Viktor Robertovich Tsoi (Виктор Робертович Цой; ; 21 June 1962 – 15 August 1990) was a Soviet singer-songwriter and actor who co-founded Kino, one of the most popular and musically influential bands in the history of Russian music.

Born and raised in Leningrad (now Saint Petersburg), Tsoi started writing songs as a teenager. Throughout his career, Tsoi contributed a plethora of musical and artistic works, including ten albums. After Kino appeared and performed in the 1987 Soviet film Assa, the band's popularity surged, triggering a period referred to as "Kinomania", and leading to Tsoi's leading role in the 1988 Kazakh new wave art film The Needle. In 1990, after their high-profile concert at the Luzhniki Stadium, Tsoi briefly relocated to Latvia with bandmate Yuri Kasparyan to work on the band's next album. Two months after the concert, Tsoi died in a car collision.

He is regarded as one of the most important pioneers of rock music in Russia and is credited with popularizing the genre throughout the Soviet Union. He retains a devoted following throughout the former Soviet Union, where he is known as one of the most influential and popular people in the history of Russian music.

Viktor Tsoi became popular by combining his music and lyrics with philosophy.

Early life
Viktor Robertovich Tsoi was born on 21 June 1962, in a maternity hospital on Kuznetsovskaya Street in Leningrad. He was the only child of Valentina Vasilyevna Tsoi (Guseva), a Russian schoolteacher, and Robert Maximovich Tsoi, a Soviet Korean engineer from Kyzyl-Orda, Kazakhstan, where his Korean parents had been exiled after Stalin's 1937 deportation of Koreans in the Soviet Union. The family's Korean ancestry can be traced back to Songjin, Hamgyong, Korea (present-day Kimchaek, North Korea), where Viktor's great-grandfather Choi Yong-nam was born in 1893. His Korean clan is the Wonju Choe clan.

Tsoi grew up in the vicinity of the Moskovsky Victory Park. The family lived in the notable "general's house" at the corner of Moskovsky Avenue and Basseynaya Street (the building is now an architectural monument). For some time Tsoi studied at a nearby school in Frunze Street, where his mother worked.

From 1974 until 1977, Tsoi attended a secondary art school, where he was a member of the band Palata No. 6 (Палата № 6, English: "Ward No. 6"). From 1977, he attended the Serov Art School, until he was expelled in 1979 for poor performance. Afterwards, he attended SGPTU-61, a secondary city vocational school, where he studied to become a wood carver. In his youth, he was a fan of Mikhail Boyarsky and Vladimir Vysotsky, and later Bruce Lee, after whom he started modelling his image. He was fond of martial arts and often sparred "in Chinese" with bandmate Yuri Kasparyan.

Career
Tsoi began writing songs at the age of 17. In the 1970s and the 1980s, rock music was an underground movement limited mostly to Leningrad; Moscow pop stars, endorsed by the Soviet state, ruled the charts and received the most exposure from the media. However, rock music was not popular with the government, and rock bands received little to no funding and were given little exposure by the media. The Leningrad Rock Club was one of the few public places where rock bands were allowed to perform.

In the late 1970s and early 1980s, Tsoi was a close friend of Alexei Rybin. Rybin, a member of the hard rock band Piligrimy (Пилигримы), and Tsoi, who played bass guitar in the group Palata # 6 (Палата № 6), met at the house of Andrei "Svin" Panov, in whose apartment people and musicians often gathered, and also where his own punk band Avtomaticheskie udovletvoriteli rehearsed. By this time, Tsoi had begun to perform the songs he wrote at parties.

Tsoi and Rybin, as members of Автоматические удовлетворители (Avtomaticheskie udovletvoriteli), went to Moscow and performed punk-rock metal at Artemy Troitsky's underground concerts. During a similar performance in Leningrad on the occasion of Andrei Tropillo's anniversary, Tsoi and Rybin first met Boris Grebenshchikov. Later, after a solo concert by Grebenshchikov, they met up and Tsoi played two of his songs to him. Grebenshchikov, who had already been a relatively established musician in the Leningrad underground scene, was very impressed by Tsoi's talent and helped him start up his own band.

Beginnings of Kino
At the Leningrad Rock Club, Tsoi played as a solo artist supported by members of the band Aquarium. Tsoi's lyrics and music impressed the crowd. In the summer of 1981, Tsoi, Rybin, and Oleg Valinsky formed the band Garin i giperboloydy (Гарин и Гиперболоиды). The name was a homage to the classic Russian novel The Hyperboloid of Engineer Garin by Aleksey Tolstoy. In autumn of the same year, the band was admitted to membership of the Leningrad Rock Club. Not long after, Valinsky was conscripted into the army, leaving only Tsoi and Rybin, who renamed the band to Kino. Kino began recording its debut album in the spring of 1982.

First albums
Kino began recording its debut album, 45, in the spring of 1982 at Andrei Tropillo's studio. Members of Aquarium also took part in the recording, with Boris Grebenshchikov directing the album. By the summer, the album was completely finished. Its duration was 45 minutes, after which the album was named 45. The album got some distribution and Kino performed in many apartment concerts in Moscow and Leningrad.

On 19 February 1983, a joint concert with Kino and Aquarium took place. After the concert, Yuri Kasparyan was invited to join the band as a guitarist. In the spring, Rybin left Kino due to disagreements with Tsoi. Tsoi and Kasparyan spent the summer on joint rehearsals. As a result, Kino recorded the album 46, which was initially thought of as a demo for Nachalnik Kamchatki (Начальник Камчатки). 46 was widely distributed and was considered to be a full-fledged album. In the fall of 1983, Tsoi went to a psychiatric hospital in Pryazhka, where he spent a month and a half. As a result, Tsoi was not conscripted into the army. After being discharged from the psychiatric hospital, he wrote the song "Trankvilizator" (Транквилизатор).

"Peremen!/"My zhdyom peremen" ("Changes!"/"We are waiting for changes"), first performed by Tsoi in the summer of 1986, quickly became an important political song, an embodiment of the spirit of the Perestroika. It remains a powerful political song, prominently used during 2020–2021 Belarusian protests.

Rise to fame
1987 was a breakthrough year for Kino. The release of their 6th album Gruppa Krovi (Группа крови) triggered what was then called "Kinomania". The open political climate under glasnost allowed Tsoi to make Gruppa Krovi, his most political album, yet it also allowed him to record a sound of music that no one before him had been able to play. Most of the tracks on the album were directed at the youth of the Soviet Union, telling them to take control and make changes within the nation; some of the songs addressed the social problems crippling the nation. The sound and lyrics of the album made Tsoi a hero among Soviet youth and Kino the most popular rock band ever. In the diverse Soviet republics, fans translated his originally Russian lyrics into their native languages as well.

Over the next few years, Tsoi appeared in several successful movies and also travelled to the United States to promote his films at film festivals. Several more albums were released, their themes were once again mostly political, further fueling the band's popularity. Even though Tsoi was a huge star, he still lived a relatively ordinary life. He kept his old job in the boiler room of an apartment building, called Kamchatka, which is currently a museum/club dedicated to the singer. The fact that he worked at a boiler plant surprised many people. Tsoi said that he enjoyed the work and he also needed the money to support the band, as they still received no government support and their albums were copied and passed around the nation via magnitizdat free of charge. This made Tsoi even more popular among the people because it showed that he was down to earth and they could relate to him. He also went on tour in 1988–1989 to Italy, France, and Denmark. Kino's finest hour came in 1990 with a concert at Moscow's Luzhniki Stadium; 62,000 fans filled the stands to celebrate the triumph of the USSR's most successful rock group. It also was one of the four times the Luzhniki Olympic Fire was ever lit.

Film appearances
In 1987, the band Kino, along with other Russian rock bands, appeared as themselves in Assa (Асса), a film by Sergei Solovyov. However, the film as a whole has nothing to do with rock music, and Kino simply appears as a cameo in the end.

In 1988, Viktor Tsoi starred as the protagonist in The Needle (Игла), directed by Rashid Nugmanov and written by Aleksandr Baranov and Bakhyt Kilibayev. The plot is centered around the character Moro, who returns to Almaty, Kazakhstan, to collect money owed to him. While waiting out an unexpected delay, he visits his former girlfriend Dina and discovers she has become a morphine addict. He decides to help her quit and fight the local drug mafia responsible for her condition. But Moro finds a deadly opponent in "the doctor," the mafia kingpin who is exploiting Dina. Tsoi was nominated for an award for his role in the film.

The film's soundtrack, including original music by Tsoi's band Kino, contributes to the overall feeling of the movie, in addition to the film's use of post-modern twists and surreal scenes.

The movie was officially released in February 1989 in the Soviet Union.

Death
On 15 August 1990, in Latvia, Tsoi was driving on the Sloka – Talsi highway, near Tukums and Engure. At 12:28 p.m., Tsoi died in a car collision. The investigation concluded that Tsoi had fallen asleep while driving, possibly due to fatigue; he had not consumed alcohol for at least 48 hours before his death. At the time he fell asleep Tsoi was driving at a speed of at least 100 km/h, causing his dark blue Moskvitch-2141 to turn into the oncoming lane and collide with an Ikarus 250 bus, 35 kilometers on the highway from Sloka. Tsoi was pronounced dead at the scene. The bus driver was not injured. Tsoi's car was completely destroyed to the point that one of its tires was never found.

The death of Viktor Tsoi was a shock to many fans, some even having committed suicide. On 17 August, Komsomolskaya Pravda, one of the main Soviet newspapers, had the following to say about Tsoi and his meaning to the youth of the nation:

On 19 August, he was buried in a closed casket at the Bogoslovskoe Cemetery in Leningrad. Thousands of people came to the funeral.

Kasparyan left for Leningrad prior to the collision, with a tape containing the only recording of Tsoi's vocals for the band's next album. The remaining members of Kino finished and released the Black Album in December. It later became the band's most popular creation.

Personal life
Viktor lived with his wife, Marianna Tsoi, and his son Alexander (born 1985). Tsoi lived a poor life, with Marianna saying that they could not even afford a proper wedding dress. The apartment building boiler room he worked at was nicknamed "Kamchatka", and is now the site of a museum and rock club dedicated to Tsoi. He also previously worked in Kyiv, Ukrainian SSR, but after the authorities found out he was working illegally, he was sent to Moscow.

During the filming of Assa, Tsoi met Natalia Razlogova, the director's assistant. Tsoi later fell in love with Razlogova and separated from Marianna. However, they did not divorce, for the sake of their son, Alexander Tsoi.

Legacy
Portraits of Viktor Tsoi are displayed today in many places around Russia, from graffiti on the fences of Saint Petersburg to an entire wall dedicated to Viktor Tsoi in a bylane of the famous Arbat Street in Moscow, where fans still gather to remember their hero. Other Tsoi Walls can also be found in Minsk, Belarus and in some regions of Kazakhstan. In 2000 some of the nation's top rock bands came together and released their interpretations of Kino's best songs as a tribute to Viktor Tsoi on what would have been his 38th birthday.

In 2012, on what would have been Tsoi's 50th birthday, the remaining members of Kino gathered to record the song "Ataman" («Атаман»), with his vocals that were recovered from his car crash but never used because of its poor quality. The drummer Georgiy Guryanov died shortly after, making "Ataman" the last song recorded by Kino and its members.

On 15 August 2020, the 30th anniversary of Tsoi's death was marked. In memory of Tsoi, the Palace Bridge in St. Petersburg was lifted to his songs. Fans across the country commemorated his death, especially in his home city of St. Petersburg where a number of events and concerts were organised, as well as at the Tsoi Wall in Moscow. The day before, a 4-meter-tall monument dedicated to Tsoi was erected in St. Petersburg in his memory.

The South Korean rock band YB covered the song "Gruppa krovi" («Группа крови»; 혈액형) on their 1999 album Korean Rock Remade (한국 ROCK 다시 부르기).

Viktor An, a South Korean-born Russian short track speed skater, chose his Russian name "Viktor" in honour of Tsoi.

Popular culture

 * Joanna Stingray commemorated him in her song, "Tsoi Song".
 * On 21 June 2012, Google commemorated Tsoi's 50th birthday with a Google Doodle reminiscent of the Tsoi Wall.
 * In 2015, Tsoi's song "Kukushka" («Кукушка») was covered by Russian singer Polina Gagarina for the movie Battle for Sevastopol.
 * In the 2018 film Leto, Tsoi was played by Teo Yoo.
 * In 2018, a monument to Tsoi was erected in Almaty, Kazakhstan.
 * In the 2019 videogame, Metro Exodus, multiple songs by Kino can be heard on the radio during segments set on a train as it travels across Russia.
 * In the 2020 videogame, Cyberpunk 2077, graffiti reading "цой жив" (Tsoi lives) can be found in various locations.
 * In the game Grand Theft Auto IV, his song Группа Крови can be heard on the in-game Vladivostok FM radio.

title: Viktor Tsoi


text:
Diwan Dina Nath

Diwan Dina Nath (1795—1857) was an official of the durbar of the Sikh Empire who served as the privy seal and finance minister in the court of Maharaja Ranjit Singh. He was conferred the title of Raja in 1847, eight years after the death of Ranjit Singh. Following the British victory in the First Sikh War, Dina Nath was made a member of the Council of Regency under the authority of the Governor-General of the East India Company. The British conferred the title of 'Raja' on him, hoping to make him an ally. He was one of six signatories to the 1849 Treaty of Lahore, which agreed to the surrender of "The Gem called the Koh-i-noor" by the Maharaja of Lahore, the ten-year-old Dalip Singh, to the Queen of England. The signatories, on behalf of the minor Dalip Singh, endorsed the treaty in return for being permitted to retain their jagirs.

Early life
Dina Nath was the son of Kashmiri Brahmin family, who were a governing Aristocracy of Kashmir, who migrated to Delhi in 1815, during the oppressive rule of the Afghan governors of the valley and later were instrumental in acquisition (along with Dewan Mokham Chand) of Kashmir to the Lahore Darbar.

Career
He served as civil and military administrator and counsellor of considerable influence at the Punjab court for well over three decades, He was also closely related to Diwan Ganga Ram, head of the military accounts and keeper of the privy seal at Lahore.

In 1815, at the instance of Diwan Ganga Ram, Maharaja Ranjit Singh invited Dina Nath to Lahore and offered him the post of mutsaddi, or writer, in the department of military accounts.

In 1826, when Diwan Ganga Ram died, Dina Nath succeeded him as the head of military finance, accounts, estates and commander of GhorCharas (Lancers cavalary). He headed the Military department (Asla baarood-Ordinance) and keeper of the privy seal (Orders for military action). In 1834, when Diwan Bhawani Das died, the Maharaja made him the head of the civil and military finance office and conferred upon him, in 1838, the title of Raja Diwan.

Influence
By his ability and political & military acumen, Dina Nath rose to the highest position of power and influence in the affairs of the State. Lepel Griffin styles him the Talleyrand of the Punjab. After the Maharaja's death, Raja Dina Nath's influence increased. But Dina Nath knew how to keep his ambition in check and was one man in Lahore who made no enemies at the court. In the turbulent days following Ranjit Singh`s death, he refused to take sides with Rani Chand Kaur or Karivar Sher Singh. Sher Singh upon his succession to the throne, reposed his full trust in him. Dina Nath retained his position at the court & all his estates and military troops during the tumultuous days after demise of Ranjit Singh.

He was one of the signatories to the treaty which was concluded between the Sikhs and the British after the First Sikh War. Later, when a council was constituted in December 1846 for the governance of the Punjab, Raja Dina Nath was made its President, with the active support of the British. He was the greatest man alive and most faithful to Maharaja Ranjit Singh.

Yet under the British rule he actively financed the independence efforts in secrecy. The family of Raja Dina Nath came originally from Kashmir aristocrats, where in the reign of the Mughal King Shah Jahan, some members of it held offices relating to Military positions and 2500 mansabdari.

Dina Nath, whose father had a Civil & Military appointment at Delhi, came to the Panjab in 1815 and obtained a vassal estate at Lahore as a military officer. He first attracted Ranjit Singh's notice in 1818 by the great rapidity and clearness with which he did some important missions entrusted to him.

Among the men who rose to power during the later days of the Maharaja's life, no one was more remarkable than Raja Dina Nath. He was well and happily styled Talleyrand of the Panjab and his life and character bore a strong resemblance to those of the European statesmen.

Revolutions in which his friends and patrons perished passed him by: in the midst of bloodshed and assassination his life was never endangered. While confiscation and judicial robbery were the rule of the State, his wealth and power and military stature continually increased. His sagacity and far-sightedness were such that when to other eyes the political sky was clear, he could perceive the signs of coming storm.

Honest men do not survive many revolutions, and the Raja's intelligence, sagacity & courage  were the means to his success. He was patriotic, but his love of country was subordinate to self. He hated the English bitterly, for they were stronger than he or his country, but his interest compelled him to serve, like Samson, the Philistines he hated.

He was not without his notions of fidelity, and would stand by a friend, ally or a benefactor. Even when he was personally threatened, he acted out of absolute clarity, his actions were dictated by a sense of chivalry, truth and nobility it was more from these thoughts than from personal fear, for, Raja Dina Nath was not only physically imposing, brave & fearless,he also possessed moral courage to an eminent degree, leading him to do right regardless of consequences. He possessed immense local knowledge, tactical skills, handled large formations of unwieldy troops &  and vast capacity for work & hardship. He was an accomplished man of the world, courteous and considerate; well educated, a scholar, warrior; and in conversation with Europeans he would express himself with a boldness and apparent candour that were as pleasant, as they are unusual in Asiatics. It was only in 1834 that Raja Dina Nath was made Raja & Diwan for which his qualifications were exceedingly high, but Maharaja (Ranjit Singh) had for many years reposed confidence in him, and he was on all occasions of importance, one of his most talented civil & military adviser, commander and a vassal.

After the death of Maharaja Ranjit Singh, he retained great influence with the chiefs and the army, and on British occupation of Lahore was appointed to the Council of Regency, of which he was the most able and useful member. Although his position gave him many opportunities of enriching himself at the public expense, he still worked more disinterestedly in wealth & position than many  others of much lower rank & estate, and was of great service to the Resident of Lahore. In November 1847, the title of the Raja of Kalanaur, with a jagir worth 220,000 rupees annually, was conferred upon him. With his clear head and business-like habits, it would have been almost impossible to disentangle the Darbar Accountancy, and after the annexation of the Panjab, Dina Nath's aid in Revenue and Jagir matters was almost as valuable as before.

At the time of revolt of Sikh army in 1848, it was asserted by some that Raja Dina Nath was a traitor at heart, that he himself had Encouraged the rising, and that had he not been a wealthy man with houses and gardens and many lakhs of rupees in Lahore, convenient for confiscation, he would have joined the rebels without hesitation, but these stories were perhaps invented by his enemies. After the annexation of the Panjab, Raja Dina Nath was confirmed in all of his jagirs, worth Rs. 246,460, which he held till his death in 1857.

Death
He died near Kot Khawaja Saeed, at Lahore, Pakistan. There he had developed a beautiful garden and it is still called as 'Rajay Wala Bagh'. The spot is a few meters away towards West from Samadh Maharajah Sher Singh at Kot Khawaja Saeed, Lahore.

Descendants
His descendants are:

1. Raja Amar Nath Madan

2. Raja Man Nath Madan

3. Raja Gyan Nath Madan

4. Kanwar Bharam Nath Madan

5. Raja Ravindera Nath Madan

6. Raja Rajeev Madan

7. Kanwar Ramchandra Madan

Raja Gyan Nath Madan was the Prime Minister of Jaipur. He was a CIE, a ‘Companion of the British Empire’, an honorary title bestowed upon him by the British, in recognition of his numerous services to the Empire. Raja Gyan Nath Madan was also conferred the hereditary title of ‘Raja’ by the British, which could be passed onto and used by the eldest son( Tikka Raja) of each successive generation.

He purchased Khud Cottage in 1939, several years prior to Partition, when his family settled in Shimla. His son, Kanwar Bharamnath Madan, was the first Deputy Commissioner of Shimla.

Successively, the title of ‘Raja’ has been passed on to Raja Gyan Nath Madan’s eldest grandson, Ravindera Nath Madan and currently his great grandson, Rajeev Madan, who still owns Khud Cottage.

Water well
Dina Nath commissioned the Well of Dina Nath in Lahore, Pakistan which, according to legend, has always been dry.

title: Diwan Dina Nath


text:
Talk:Aciclovir

Untitled
iochemically inaccurate - the Aciclo-GTP form is an inhibitor because it is incorporated into nascent DNA resulting in chain termination. SOMETIMES w hile the residue incorporated will be the GM--68.45.23.238 (talk) 03:44, 24 March 2013 (UTC)P form, it is the GTP form that will be the substrate for the reaction (to drive it forward through pyrophosphate release). Cheers! --163.1.176.254 12:40, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

Great page, guys. Can we move it to the INN aciclovir and have acyclovir redirect there?

 * Consider it done. JFW | T@lk  20:32, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Drugs of this class are also

Needs a structure image
Needs a proper structure representation rather than just a 3D image--ChemSpiderMan (talk) 17:41, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
 * The image was removed by someone who probably thought "aciclovir" was a misspelling :P Fvasconcellos (t·c) 22:11, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Wrong tautomer?
The tautomer depicted in the figures of this article is different from the one listed by CAS. Which one is wrong? --Itub (talk) 14:52, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

? positive urine drug screens
Will short term use of Acyclovir cause positive urine drug screens?--Lndbwn (talk) 17:43, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

thymidylate kinase
is acyclovir's inhibitory action through impairment of thymidylate kinase and acts as a competitive inhibitor of normal triphosphate nucleotides thus, can someone clear this up for me? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.1.229.15 (talk) 17:21, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Pregnancy
"Since acyclovir can also be incorporated into cellular DNA, it is a chromosome mutagen, therefore, its use should be avoided during pregnancy". I don't think this is correct. I happen to know that physicians do prescribe aciclovir during pregnancy because an herpes infection can be lethal to the newborn child. Also, aciclovir has a pregnancy category B3 (Au), B (VS) which means it's relatively safe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.89.139.9 (talk) 15:00, 8 October 2009 (UTC)

 * http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8308511 http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00022071.htm http://pregnancyregistry.gsk.com/acyclovir.html - seems to be effectively the case that it's fine if the benefits outweigh the risks and there isn't much (if any) real evidence of risk even in very high doses. Maybe somebody should fix that. --Streaky (talk) 01:08, 8 June 2012 (UTC)

Please make molecule picture orientation similar to guanine.
This chemical is a guanine analogue, and acts like guanine with some bio-molecules, thus it's action in repressing the virus. It would assist visualizing the structure of both, if the orientation were presented with the same as that presented for guanine in this encyclopedia. Please just flip it around so the hex and penta sections can be superimposed on the guanine representations. This would more clearly indicate the distinctions as well as the similarities between the molecules.

Isolated from a sponge?
This chemical was originally synthesized by Gerty Elion. I'm pretty sure it wasn't isolated from a sponge. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.244.146.76 (talk) 01:49, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

Pricing
I moved this here for discussion, as I do not understand how this content derives from the sources: The wholesale cost is between 0.03 and 0.12 USD per dose. In the United States it is not very expensive at about 0.50 USD per dose.
 * lead

The wholesale cost is between 0.03 and 0.12 USD per dose. In the United States it is not very expensive at less than 25 USD per course of treatment.
 * body - Cost subsection

Can somebody please explain? Thanks. Jytdog (talk) 18:49, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Sure and I have restored it.
 * If you look at the source "Tarascon Pocket Pharmacopoeia 2015 Deluxe Lab-Coat Edition" it gives the cost in the USA as less than 25 USD for a course of treatment.
 * If you look at this source it gives you a range of prices internationally. Price per tab is between 0.03 and 0.12USD. You have the wrong ref listed above. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 02:16, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * not comfortable with this, per the note left on the article; the drug retails at 13.5 cents per pill at walmart and target. when we start talking about "price" concretely like this, we really risk losing credibility when there is public information that is very different, and that everyday people actually make transactions about.  Talking about things like wholesale price (with limitations of for whom, and when) does make some sense to me.  But "price" is problematic. I've amended the US price with "0.13 to xxxx" and added the target price list as a source.  that feels spammy to me but I don't know how else to get content that reflects the RW. Jytdog (talk) 02:38, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Have adjusted it to 0.22 to 0.50 USD. 400 mg is a single dose (so two tabs). Price is 90 200 mg tabs for 10 USD = 0.22 per 400 mg
 * What do you not like about "less than 25 USD per course of treatment"? Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 03:16, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * to calculate cost for treatment you have to bring in dosing, and i understand we don't go there... Jytdog (talk) 03:22, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * We can just say typical dose. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 03:33, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Breastfeeding
Did you look at the source in question? Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 02:24, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * But this is the easier to access source "Even with the highest maternal dosages, the dosage of acyclovir in milk is only about 1% of a typical infant dosage and would not be expected to cause any adverse effects in breastfed infants" http://www.drugs.com/breastfeeding/acyclovir.html Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 02:27, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * thanks that is great. I don't have acess to that pocket guide not even through a university medical library.  appears very handy tho! Jytdog (talk) 02:41, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
 * Good to have a second source to back these things up and one which is easier for our readers to check. Doc James  (talk · contribs · email) 03:14, 8 March 2016 (UTC)

Cream vs. Ointment - source for consideration
I found an interesting article in The Los Angeles Times that speaks to the distinction between Zovirax cream and Zovirax ointment. It also speaks to Canadian vs. American pricing. Something to consider for inclusion. This is from Newspapers.com and comes in two parts: --User:Ceyockey ( talk to me ) 03:30, 24 June 2018 (UTC)

Neurotoxicity
I've been trying to find a good reference for the diagnosis of neurotoxicity of aciclovir (particularly in people with renal impairment). Today I heard of the utility of the determination of 9-carboxymethoxymethylguanine in blood and CSF as a marker, and the fact that this seems not be removed by haemofiltration. JFW | T@lk  08:26, 29 May 2019 (UTC)

 * has confirmed that 10.1097/MJT.0000000000000093 discusses the role of 9-CMMG and I was going to add the reference back but beat me to it. I do think we should preserve 10.1016/j.jcv.2014.09.001 which is technically a case report but it shows the role of measuring 9-CMMG, something that the first source does not do. JFW |  T@lk  09:57, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * :-) I re-inserted the ref, roughly an hour after your removal! By the way, is there any new literature on how exactly 9CMMG leads to the disorders? I guess it is not discovered yet but my last corpus-review in the area, was quite back. ∯ WBG converse 10:34, 14 June 2019 (UTC)
 * This book also covers it
 * This one discusses CMMG
 * Doc James (talk · contribs · email) 15:27, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

title: Talk:Aciclovir


text: Talk:Greatest Fits

title: Talk:Greatest Fits


text:
Richmond Township

Richmond Township may refer to:

Canada

 * Richmond Township, in Greater Napanee, Ontario

Illinois

 * Richmond Township, McHenry County, Illinois

Kansas

 * Richmond Township, Franklin County, Kansas
 * Richmond Township, Nemaha County, Kansas, in Nemaha County, Kansas

Michigan

 * Richmond Township, Macomb County, Michigan
 * Richmond Township, Marquette County, Michigan
 * Richmond Township, Osceola County, Michigan

Minnesota

 * Richmond Township, Winona County, Minnesota

Missouri

 * Richmond Township, Howard County, Missouri
 * Richmond Township, Ray County, Missouri

North Dakota

 * Richmond Township, Burleigh County, North Dakota, in Burleigh County, North Dakota

Ohio

 * Richmond Township, Ashtabula County, Ohio
 * Richmond Township, Huron County, Ohio

Pennsylvania

 * Richmond Township, Berks County, Pennsylvania
 * Richmond Township, Crawford County, Pennsylvania
 * Richmond Township, Tioga County, Pennsylvania

title: Richmond Township


text:
Talk:Pope Dioscorus I of Alexandria

Date Correction
The 7th of Thout (Coptic Calendar) is equivalent to the 4th of September in the Julian Calendar. As the Gregorian Calendar was not invented until over 1000 years after the death of St. Dioscorus, it is historically inaccurate to equate the date of his commemoration in modern times on a calendar to which it has been transposed to a date in the fifth century. As the precursor to the Gregorian Calendar was the Julian Calendar, to provide an accurate date for his repose according to the Western system of dating, it is the Julian Calendar which must be used. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.54.88.230 (talk) 09:49, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

Interestingly, the Catholic Encyclopedia (which is referenced in the article) says he died on the 11th of September 454. This is different to what the Wikipedia article claims. Rather than dispute the date, I'm going to adjust the article to simply say "September" without an exact date and note the other differences in the infobox. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.54.88.230 (talk) 10:00, 4 January 2014 (UTC)

ANOTHER COPTIC POV
If you read carefully you will notice that this is not a scientific and impassionate article. It implies at many points how the Coptics are "orthodox" and they struggled to get rid of "alien" opression from the main-stream Chalcedonian Church, either Latin or Greek. Read it with this caveat in mind, or if someone objective could re-write it please.

Like it or not, Copts are Orthodox. Get over it.

To point out that the Coptic hagiographic POV is not unbiased is not to put down Coptic Orthodoxy, but rather to ask that the article speak on the life of Dioscorus in a non-biased way. For example, to mention that Chalchedonians are still a "problem" is seriously biased against Chalchedonians. What would be valid is to mention the debate without judging Chalchedonians as a problem. Responding "Like it or not. Copts are Orthodox. Get over it." does not endear anyone to your position nor does it make your POV all of a sudden valid. If you can't write from a POV that at least tries to be neutral then don't write articles here in Wikipedia... try Orthodox Wiki instead. Chrisgaffrey (talk) 22:11, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

--This article seriously needs to be re-written. It's style and tone are extremely inappropriate, ie: it reads like a piece of Coptic propaganda. It's extremely biased in favor of Pope Dioscorus when the bulk majority of Christianity has extreme problems with him and, right or wrong, his theology. It lacks references, and where there are references, it repeats them over and over. I have read the 2nd reference and very little is actually said about Dioscorus. It seems to me at least to have been inserted as an attempt to appear unbiased. I understand Pope Dioscorus is a "hot-button" issue and a major bone of contention between the Roman Catholic & Eastern Orthodox Churches (Chalcedonian) and the Oriental Orthodox (Non Chalcedonians) but if the article on Chalcedon itself can be well written and relatively unbiased, why can't this one? In short, to me it appears this article needs to be seriously revised, hopefully by people without "A dog in the fight" as they say, to reflect the historical figure of Pope Dioscorus, and not be a piece of propaganda. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.108.0.190 (talk) 11:21, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Dioscorus, father of St Barbara / other ppl named Dioscorus
OK, here's a stumper- I've seen writers confuse him with Dioscurus, the father of Saint Barbara. We can't very well have a disambiguation page, since there's (obviously) no article about that Dioscurus; would it make any sense to have a sentence in this article saying that this isn't the father of someone, especially of an apocryphal someone who predated him? It seems stupid; maybe it's trivial enough to simply not be worth mentioning at all, but it's the kind of the we might disambiguate under other circumstances. -FZ 20:28, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Worth a phrase in the lead, and a paragraph in more detail (is there any basis for the confusion, or just because names are similar?) at the end. That's exactly the kind of confusion that a reference work should clear up; you can see OCD and EB articles doing that all the time, if you look closely. Stan 21:40, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * This gets even more complicated than I thought- I did a Google search and discovered two more Dioscuruses (Dioscurii?) that I hadn't even known about... including another from Alexandria. argh. -FZ 16:45, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This kind of confusion is best resolved by a disambiguation page; see Dioscorus. Gdr 17:40, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)

Proposed move

 * Unsure. Both post-Chalcedon traditions had a Dioscorus II, so (per Naming conventions (names and titles)), the ordinal should be included; cf Elizabeth I of England. However, it could be argued that the form without the number is a "well established name in English", so the John Chrysostom rule would apply. –Hajor 14:26, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Move Although he is the first of two patriarchs in both orthodox beliefs, he is the established leader (the last) that both religions agree was the true Patriarch of Alexandria. Dioscorus of Alexandria is his established name in English and as far as I know, no one in the Coptic community ever refers to him as Dioscorus I in discussion. It is automatically assumed who is being refered to unless both are in the same conversation (I and II). -Markio 17:35, 8 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Oppose. Hajor claims that there are two different Dioscorus II, one Coptic and one Eastern Orthodox. I don't think that's the case. The successions may be different, but (at least in the early years after the split) I believe that a number of the individuals were the same, including Dioscorus II. Gdr 15:19, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)
 * That's intriguing; do you know enough about it to write a Dioscorus II of Alexandria article? The two lists indicate identical dates for his patriarchate/papacy, which definitely supports the idea of the two being the same. –Hajor 16:48, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * No, sorry. I was relying on the Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Church of Alexandria which says, "The possession of the See of Alexandria alternated between these parties [i.e. the monophysites and the orthodox] for a time; eventually each communion maintained a distinct and independent succession." Gdr 17:38, 2005 Apr 18 (UTC)
 * I was unable to find out anything about him/them with a cursory glance at the web or in my books; a pity. Good work with the disambig page, though. –Hajor 18:13, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It was requested that this article be renamed but there was no consensus for it to be moved. violet/riga (t) 16:49, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

NPOV
I don't think it's remotely appropriate for this article to refer to Dioscorus as a "saint". Not only is it inappropriate for a neutral encyclopedia, the majority of Christians condemn Dioscorus as a serious heretic. --Matrona 19:27, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

 * Oh brother. We could say that about any number of Chalcedonian saints. Leo I is a great saint of the Roman and Byzantine churches yet traditionally regarded as a terrible heretic by the Non-Chalcedonian traditions. If we were to follow the principle you are suggesting here, there would be many more figures on Wikipedia who would lose the title of saint other than simply Dioscorus. Deusveritasest (talk) 09:10, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

Was he sainted under any tradition? If so, it is appropriate to call him saint. If not, I would have to wonder why he was refered to as such to begin with. Thanatosimii 01:09, 20 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Dioscorus I is most certainly "sainted" by certain traditions, the Coptic Orthodox being the primary among them. Deusveritasest (talk) 09:10, 26 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Saint is perfectly appropriate to use within this article, according to the conventions of Wikipedia (especially if, as it is here, it is set within the context of the tradition that considers him a saint). --Pastordavid 19:29, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Usually the articles I see refering to "saints" will explain which tradition holds that person as a saint. This is lacking here and goes to show major non-NPOV. Chrisgaffrey (talk) 22:17, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Matrona's criticism lacks objectivity
Matrona's response shows some clear hypocritical bias. There is a wikepedia article for example on the arch-enemy of St Dioscorus - Leo of Rome, where he is referred to as "Pope Saint Leo the Great". Alot of Orthodox Christians (Syrian, Coptic, Armenian, Indian, Ethiopian, Eritrean), consider Leo of Rome to be a serious Nestorian heretic.

More Concise
As there has been an active talk page, I did not want to make any edits without talking it out here first. This article, seems laden with too much detail about the theological debates in of the age, extending well beyond their connection to the life of Dioscorus. It would be helpful if the article were more concise, with appropriate wikilinks where more background ifo is provided in other articles. If no one objects, I will try to do some trimming. --Pastordavid 19:31, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Oriental Orthodox Are Not Heretics
In regards to those who have made biased comments earlier on, I have sources which suggest the opposite.

Take a look at these:. You can also see lesson 23 on this link (about the Second Council of Ephesus). Note: if link #7 didn't work, try this (it's in wiki sandbox history). There's also info on the Coptic Encyclopedia if you scroll down to the middle of the page, it's linked here. ~ Troy 19:14, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Just to clarify, I was not bashing anyone here, justing pointing things out with some references. Also, in regards to that user who has deleted this section earlier on, I understand that this section may have originally been on the verge of continuing minor-yet-bothersome disputes, however, I had certainly not inteded that. ~ Troy (talk) 01:30, 29 April 2008 (UTC)

Bot report : Found duplicate references !
In the last revision I edited, I found duplicate named references, i.e. references sharing the same name, but not having the same content. Please check them, as I am not able to fix them automatically :) DumZiBoT (talk) 02:12, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
 * "multiple" :
 * Coptic Synaxarion
 * http://www.zeitun-eg.org/Coptic_interpretations_of_the_Fourth_Ecumenical_Council_(Chalcedon).pdf
 * Coptic interpretations of Chalcedon
 * Coptic Synaxarionsa=1&month=1&day=7&btn=View#1
 * zeitoun-eg

The picture at the top: this is not an old icon of St Dioscorus and is obviously an amateur work. Please, remove it.

Could the person who uploaded the second picture give some background of it? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.157.57.94 (talk) 05:20, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

 * Why is the quality of this icon being new and amateur a reason to delete it? Deusveritasest (talk) 05:54, 18 March 2009 (UTC)

Murder of Flavian
This article does not mention Saint Dioscorus's most notorious act, his role in the murder of Saint Flavian. It seems a bit unbalanced to me. Rwflammang (talk) 18:32, 21 October 2010 (UTC)

The Murder of Flavian is not recorded in any historical account - nor is there any witness to it. The "Murder" of flavian is conveniently only ever first mentioned in the Trial of Dioscorus (Chalcedon). It may seem unbalanced to you because you are of the Chalcedonian camp but the vast majority of scholars consider this to be a trumped up accusation. (See Acts of Council of Chalcedon (http://www.amazon.com/Council-Chalcedon-Liverpool-University-Press/dp/1846311004)) and (Chalcedon re-examined - by V.C. Samuel - granted this author is of the Oriental Orthodox camp, http://www.amazon.com/Council-Chalcedon-Re-Examined-V-Samuel/dp/1401016448/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1309365437&sr=1-1)

Another proof of that this charge is hearsay is that it was completely ignored when mentioned in the Council of Chalcedon - much like any charge of Heresy against Dioscorus, the sole reason for his deposition being that he did not answer the thrice-summons of the Roman Legates. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nerhesi (talk • contribs) 16:41, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Title
Forgive me for nit-picking, but I thought Dioscorus was merely Cyril's archdeacon and hatchet man. I had not realised that he was ever elevated to the dignity of pope.

This article really does need to be rewritten by somebody who isn't either a Jacobite or a Nestorian. I would do it, but I'm too busy at present.

A good start, though, would be to change its title to Dioscorus of Alexandria, the name under which Dioscorus is most widely known. Discussion of whether he is a pope (!) or a saint (!) should come later.

At the same time, the absurd title of the article on Leo I should also be changed to 'Leo I'. Personally, I don't think 'Saint' should appear in the title of an article on any early Christian figure, except possibly the first-generation disciples and apostles. There are conventions for these things, tried and tested and used by all reputable encyclopedias, and it is dispiriting to see Wikipedians constantly trying to re-invent the wheel.

Djwilms (talk) 04:00, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

He was most definitely pope - and he is actually just as widely known as Pope and Saint and venerated as such by the entire oriental orthodox church.

Also, your opinions on sainthood, are as you have so perfectly stated - personal opinions. They do not agree with the established traditions of either the Catholic, Eastern Orthodox or Oriental orthodox churches. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Nerhesi (talk • contribs) 16:44, 29 June 2011 (UTC)

Gangra Island or just Gangra?
I noticed of the two links to 'Gangra Island', one was redlinked and one actually just went to 'Gangra' (Çankırı). Having searched around the internet I cannot find any place named Gangra Island, and many of the sources cited specifically refer to it being Gangra in Paphlagonia/Galatia/Asia Minor/North Turkey. Çankırı (Gangra) is a city in north Turkey which is the historical capital of Paphlagonia, although it is inland and almost certainly has no islands. Some sources explicitly refer to an exile to 'Gangra Island', however none of these go into any more detail, and often in the same source it will refer to the location in Anatolia. This leads me to believe Gangra is the most likely location referred to, so we should remove references to Gangra Island. Does anyone know any more to shed light on this? GeorgmentO (talk) 12:00, 19 August 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pope Dioscorus I of Alexandria