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Talk:San Antonio/Archive 2

Embedded links
I'm being to become concerned with the number of external links that are embedded in the article. They have no value except to advertise the business websites, such as PF Changs, etc. Any thoughts? Clipper471 02:43, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

 * The article does have way too many of them. I'm not a fan of External links inside the text in the first place, but this is just going overboard.  The only thing that should be inside the text is references, which are listed at the bottom of the page.  I'd say we start cleaning them up, section by section.  --Brownings 03:27, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

City seal missing
What happened to the city seal? Looks like the image was deleted off of Wiki for some reason. Anyone have access to another copy or a cached one from Wiki? --Brownings 11:46, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Lat/long
Howdy !! I am looking at longitudes and latitudes of cities and big cities of USA lists a small number of cities - some have their stats with very very exact longitude and latitude whereas others have briefer longitude and latitude - just nit-picking, really but this city is one of the very very exact ones, I think. It is not great from the point of view of wikipedia consistency but it is great from the point of view of some aims, I reckon!! —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.112.31.198 (talk • contribs).
 * I'm almost sure one of our aviation buffs entered it - the coordinates are dead center of the San Antonio International Airport. :) Kuru  talk  00:15, 12 January 2007 (UTC)

Climate table for San Antonio
I decided to create a climate table, or weatherbox, for San Antonio. This is because it seemed a bit odd that out of the 5 largest cities in Texas, it was the only one without a climate table in its article. Especially strange, when it's the third largest metro area in the state! Hopefully, what I did was acceptable and any members here may feel free to make changes or add thoughts. NorthernFire 03:15, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Nice work Northern. I think the weatherbox looks great.  Definitely a fantastic addition to the weather & climate section, and a keeper for sure! --Brownings 03:48, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Good work. I would say that if there is eventually a daughter article for Climate or Geography that the full table could be placed in that article and a condensed version could remain here.  It looks fine for now and is informative.  Thanks.  Ufwuct 04:08, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

"San Antone", again
This subject was touched on here. Being from Texas I can attest to the fact that Texans refer to San Antonio as "San Antone" as a term of endearment. From the former discussion a consensus was made that people from San Antonio and other Texans use the term (although there are some who don't agree). I suggest it be added to "Nicknames." I have never heard of "Alamo City" or "River City" before Wikipedia. --ProdigySportsman 20:45, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Interesting. I've lived in Houston before moving to San Antonio in 1983. While in Houston, I know I've heard of references there to "San Antone". I do not believe, however, it is a nickname. I've never heard of a San Antonian refer to it as such. (I do, however, remember one interesting conversation where an SA resident thought referring it as San Antone was disrespectful.) Further, living in San Antonio since 1983, I've heard and seen numerous references to San Antonio as the River City and the Alamo City. Clipper471 00:44, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I've heard both Alamo City & River City. Alamo City I heard before moving here.  I wasn't until I got here that I heard River City, which newscasts such as WOAI seem to love to use River City for some reason.  I think "San Antone" should be just considered slang, kind of like when you hear many of the radio stations in promos and commercials refer to the city as SA Town (pronounced like Say Town).  --Brownings 00:59, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

 * A review of Los Angeles, California and San Francisco, California shows that neither "L.A." or "San Fran" are included as nicknames. Clipper471 13:28, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

+I lived in San Antonio for about 15 years and heard it referred to as San Antone, River city and the Alamo City

Born in San Antonio, and having lived here for the 52 years of my life, I can honestly say that River City and Alamo City are quite common. It has always been my understanding that native San Antonians dislike, do not use and do not approve of the term 'San Antone'. It does have a slang sound to it.

Native San Antonian DO NOT Appove of the term "San Antone". Alamo City and River City are very common, just not to outsiders.

Native San Antonians refer to the city as San Antonio. Alamo City is also very common, but it's not a serious name--it's sort of like the Big Apple to New Yorkers. River City is very recent, since the River Walk was developed into a tourist attraction, and is really sort of a promotional name, not something San Antonians would ever say. Referring to the city as San Antone goes way back in history, old west, and was a sort of shorthand reference by outsiders who visited the city back when it was still sort of a frontier place. Nothing disrespectful about San Antone at all, but it is mainly from another era, although outsiders may not appreciate that. You can tell when outsiders say San Antone they think they are showing they are "in the know", when in fact they are showing that they are outsiders.

San Antonio has been home for 35 years. Most people consider "San Antone" to be an instant indicator that you are not a native. San Antone is legal if you're a songwriter because San Antonio doesn't sing or rhyme well. I've heard 'SA' (pronounced like essay with an accent on the second syllable) a lot lately, too. RBeast 19:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)

Agree with all of the above statements. I currently live in the San Antonio Area, and the nicknames are: "The Alamo City", "River City", and "SA" (pronounced essay). Not, repeat not, "San Antone". No (or almost none) native San Antonio resident would refer to it as San Antone. This is never heard in the city itself. Although I have heard it by people in other areas of Texas, when referring to SA. 131.44.121.252 18:19, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

 * This is NEVER heard in the city? You have got to be kidding. I heard it all the time in High School and still hear it to this day. 22:09, 20 August 2007 (UTC)

Joske's image
Any particular reason we're keeping the Joske's postcard image in the Zone/Communities/Districts section? I removed it once, but it's been put back at some point. I just don't see the value added to the article by the image. Its one of two historic type images on the page which makes it even more strange. I can see having it somewhere if we had a section of historic/period photos and information, the SA article really doesn't have that. Besides, is Joske's really that important to the overall history of San Antonio? Sure, everyone knows the Alamo is here, but how many people even remember Joske's? I say we remove the image and use the space for something else, perhaps a sample image from each of the Zone/Communities/Districts. --Brownings 13:02, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I put that image there some time ago. I think it does well to keep it in this article. The current building at Commerce and Alamo is much different than what is shown in the postcard, adding a historical perspective to the intersection as it was in the early 20th century. Many people remember Joske's (pre-1987). Those that don't get a good impression of the once "biggest store in the biggest state". Clipper471 15:04, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Joske's was to San Antonio as Macy's to New York. Historically it occupied a fairly significant place in the local psyche.

 * Yes, and Joske's holds a lot of memories for San Antonio.

American Southwest issue
The Random House Unabridged Dictionary and Merriam-Webster define Texas as being geographically placed in the direct south United States; furthermore, the southwest is generally characterized by desert land, low rainfall, a somewhat arid climate, and only moderate vegetation. San Antonio doesn't fit any of these descriptions. There is a large Mexican population, but there is also a significant Puerto Rican, Cubano, Dominican, Venezuelan, el Salvadorian, and even Jamaican population. That's not something you'll find in a southwestern city. Houston also has a large Mexican population, but is farthest from being southwestern. Bottom line it's a Gulf Coastal Plains city. Not a southwestern city. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.201.118.165 (talk) 04:15, 11 April 2007 (UTC).
 * There are several overlapping definitions. See Southwestern United States, Southern United States, South Central United States, Southeastern United States and Gulf Coast of the United States. -- drumguy8800   C   T  04:37, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't exactly consider Wikipedia a reliable source, only because of the fact that just about anything can be edited, added, and disputed without any solid information. Those articles don't even count because they contradict themselves. They have a list of states, but those states aren't even highlighted in the same article. Not to say anything about the user, but San Antonio as a southwestern city is a common misconception made by those not properly educated on the matter. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.201.118.165 (talk) 04:51, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

See         All of the references I have provided link San Antonio as part of the American Southwest. Please spend time and do research to back up your claim as well. Thanks! —RJN 05:04, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I see, and everyone will always have their opinions on that because humans are stubborn that way. But the fact of the matter is that San Antonio does not fit the definition of a place in the southwest. There's no ifs, ands, or buts about it. You gave a lot of sources, but that only proves my point that it's a "common misconception" as I said above. Why can't the article just state the fact that the issue of San Antonio as a southwestern city is disputed?
 * Because you don't sign your posts
 * Because it seems to be that you are the only one who disputes it. BQZip01 22:31, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I don't think anyone was asking you, and I could care less if you think I'm the only one who disputes it. Maybe on Wikipedia, yeah. And don't come on here making unnecessary, smart-ass remarks because it wasn't called for.--68.201.118.165 23:02, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Whiskey Tango Foxtrot? This is an open public forum and users (preferably members) can discuss any issues that are at hand. This discussion is not limited to your chosen few, nor is it limited to only the people that you intend to address.
 * A lack of a signature at the end of your post indicates that you didn't follow one of the established guidelines, "...and remember to sign your posts using four tildes ( ~ )." It takes all of about a minute to become a member (far less time than it took for you to type this inflamatory response). In addition, you are the sole voice contesting the matter. This is not a consensus on the subject and, therefore, we shouldn't implement your suggestion. BQZip01 23:28, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Okay, fine, but that still doesn't justify you making wise cracks or using corny phrases such as "Whiskey Tango Foxtrot." No one said we had reached consensus because it's still being discussed. If you want to be a part of the discussion, that's cool, but don't start acting like a jerk because, once again, it wasn't called for. And it was an accident that I hadn't signed my post but when I went back to fix it, I saw the code that the HBot automatically signed it.--68.201.118.165 23:33, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
 * You can still go back and fix it. Whiskey Tango Foxtrot is the phonetic alphabet equivalent (and an acceptable military radio transmission) of "What the FUCK?" and is FAR more polite than what I was actually thinking. Next time I will be FAR more explicit for you.
 * The whole I don't think anyone was asking you and I could care less if you think I'm the only one who disputes it are the actual problems here.
 * Wikipedia's ideals are that we come to a consensus within the community.
 * If you are the lone voice of disent, try to prove your point more than typing. Show us source material
 * Grow a backbone and stand up and fight about the subject, not whether your feelings are hurt. If you think I (and everyone else) is wrong, prove it! THAT is what Wikipedia is all about. Someone showed 11 sources. Show us 12 that favor your side! If you prove them wrong (especially with articles from the city's website), I'll back you up in a heartbeat!
 * Don't get your feelings hurt over petty stuff! Put on your big girl panties and BE BOLD! — BQZip01 —  talk 02:35, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. The whole big girl panties thing was intended to get a rise out of you. Just ignore it and respond logically! — BQZip01 —  talk 02:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Well I apologize for implying that you shouldn't be a part of the debate, but at that time I felt that you shouldn't if you were going to be disrespectful.

 * Now as far as this topic, why should the decision about the city's geography be based solely on whoever finds the most sources saying that San Antonio is in the Southwest. That's ridiculous. Especially when I found two standard definitions of the city that place it in the direct south. Everyone will always have their uneducated opinion, but in educating the masses, this article should be based on solid fact. I don't think you get much more official than Merriam-Webster. You can't honestly say this doesn't make sense.--Mphifer254 03:20, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

 * The Encyclopaedia Britannica and the Oxford English Dictionary also describe San Antonio as a centrally Southern city.--Mphifer254 03:37, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

 * HEY! You got a name!
 * MUCH BETTER RESPONSE!!! M-W has been known to make mistakes (just like other sites), but local government sites claim to be part of the Southwest. The state of Texas is considered part of the South and was part of the Confederacy. Fort Worth (north and east of San Antonio) is known as "Where the West begins." There are conflicting terms and there is no way we will come to an exact conclusion (much like the definition of terrorism).
 * It isn't a clear-cut issue, just like saying San Antonio is in the Hill Country...no it isn't! it's part of the coastal plain!...no, stupid! WTF? You are both wrong! it's right at the edge of the West Texas deserts. In reality it is all three depending on what section of San Antonio we are talking about.
 * As long as you can cite it with verifiable sources, I say that we put that it is considered as both a part of the South and the Southwest and put references on both. WHO'S WITH ME!? — BQZip01 —  talk 03:41, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Come on guys! It's the Encyclopaedia Britannica! The official reliable source, lol. But if it must be that way, then it needs to be noted in the article that the geographic position of San Antonio is debated (even though official sources state it as southern, it sits on an Atlantic ocean river, is a Gulf Coast plain city, i.e. doesn't fit the description of the southwest, but WHATEVER).

 * You mentioned the local governments that identify with the southwest. They evidently watch too much television, but that goes back to what I said about people having their own opinion. Historically, it is in the West. All but the thirteen colonies and Florida are considered the West. But geographically, it isn't.--Mphifer254 04:21, 18 April 2007 (UTC)

Folks,

I'll jump in here if I may. I think that when the dictionaries and EB calls SA "south" or "southern", they are speaking geographically, which is correct: SA is geographically directly south.

But when sites like this refer to SA in the "southwest", I think they are making that distinction culturally. And that is correct too: SA is culturally part of the Southwest, unlike Houston and DFW.

Perhaps we can make that distinction too.--Zereshk 05:02, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

 * No it is not! There is no desert in San Antonio. San Antonio is entirely too green and it sits in a humid subtropical climate rather than an arid one. There are pine trees all over the city. You do not see pine trees in the Southwest. You people are confusing "West" with "Mexican." San Antonio has a strong Mexican culture that is influenced by Atlantic coast Mexico. Now, the Black culture in San Antonio is completely southern and most of the white culture too. The dialect is southern.

 * Now if you want to talk about Southwest cities, you need to talk about El Paso, Albuquerque, and Phoenix. Those cities will fall in line with what it means to be a Southwestern city.--Mphifer254 16:04, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

If I can jump into this jump in: Any green in San Antonio relies on heavy duty watering from the aquifer. It is NOT a subtropical climate. The north side of San Antonio is the southern edge of the "Hill Country", which is not green. The southside of San Antonio is the northern edge of the brush country, and the brush country is brown, not green. On the culture side, you will have to do some really hard looking to find any evidence of Southern culture. San Antonio was founded before the South existed. It's culture is distinctly frontier and Mexican. With all respect, whatever city the person in the previous paragraphs was describing, it was not San Antonio. Sounds more like Houston, which has lots of pine trees, being in East Texas. I am sure there may be a pine tree or two in San Antonio, but I have never seen one. I think the writer is describing Houston in every respect. San Antonio is distinctly Southwest and Mexican, nothing Southern AT ALL. The dialect is South Texas/West Texas twangy; assuredly not Southern. The paragraph below this one was also written about the paragraphs above; the view here is a little more definitive than in the following paragraph.

 * Respectfully, your definition of Southwest is not the only one and your statements are broad generalizations that are not true.
 * San Antonio is entirely too green - Obviously you have never been there in August when everything turns an ugly shade of brown. Even deserts turn green with enough water.
 * There are pine trees all over the city. You do not see pine trees in the Southwest. - I beg to differ. The Great Basin Bristlecone Pine (Pinus longaeva) is one of the bristlecone pines, a group of three species of pine found in the higher mountains of the southwest United States.
 * You people are confusing "West" with "Mexican"...San Antonio has a strong Mexican culture that is influenced by Atlantic coast Mexico. - Tone it down a whole heck of a lot. You people can be considered extremely offensive. You have no idea what we are thinking and it certainly isn't that we are thinking "Mexican." However, with such a sizable Mexican-American population, the Southwest is influenced heavily by Mexican culture too. That only seems to support the Southwest claim, not the other way around.
 * Now, the Black culture in San Antonio is completely southern and most of the white culture too. The dialect is southern. Dialects from San Antonio are Southern and Southwestern
 * I think it would be much more reasonable to just put that SA is a crossroads between the South and the Southwest since it seems to have characteristics from both cultural regions. — BQZip01 —  talk 17:08, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

 * I apologize and I'll bring it down a thousand.

 * Every area of the country that doesn't have a backdrop of evergreen trees turns a sort of naked brown in the autumn...the pine trees that I am speaking of are the loblolly pine. The kind that are almost completely native to the eastern U.S....I've never heard of a Southwestern dialect and wouldn't be able to identify it even if I heard it...Now, as far as Mexican culture, Houston has more Mexicans than San Antonio but that doesn't make it Southwestern. Both cities just so happen to be close to Mexico, but neither are Southwestern. Southwestern cities are also characterized by a lot of western Native American reservations...not in San Antonio. San Antonio is Southern/Mexican/Ranch-style. End of story.--Mphifer254 20:41, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

 * MPhier, End of story? You have to be kidding! Well he said it is over, so I must be in the wrong. I couldn't possibly have anything to contribute to the discussion. You don't decide the discussion is over. This is a consensus-building site and your opinion is the only dissent. Mine is with the majority. If anything, your rantings are likely to be the ones that are ignored.
 * FYI, The loblolly pine forests are north and east of San Antonio. I'll be honest, I've never seen a loblolly pine in San Antonio. Oak trees are by far the FAR more pentiful tree in the San Antonio Metroplex.
 * If you read the link, you would have noticed that wikipedia currently defines areas of the Southwest as having a sizable Mexican-American population and is influenced by the Mexican culture. It mentions nothing about reservations being the deciding factor, but since you mentioned it, what about Oklahoma? Is it Southwestern? How about North Dakota?
 * Houston has more Mexicans than San Antonio Got a source for that? I'll concede numerically that it might have more Hispanics, but I'll bet San Antonio has more precentage-wise.
 * San Antonio is Southern/Mexican/Ranch-style...and the Alamo so clearly shows it...have you seen the San Antonio Library? Have you seen the houses in the metroplex (especially those north of I-35 bordered by Loop-410 and I-10 on the West side)?
 * In short, I have provided links. You have provided unsourced claims. — BQZip01 —  talk 02:23, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
 * I've nothing to contribute to s/sw debate, but I can confirm the mega-flora. The "natural" forests here are about 60% live oak and other oak mixes, and 40% big ass weeds - slowly trending to weed domination.  The variety increases around water sources, but I can't seem to place any naturally occurring pines in the area.  Off the top of my head, I'm not sure they really start up until you get closer to Houston than to SA.   Kuru  talk  03:38, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Well I can tell you right now that you're wrong because they're all over the place. You can even read the loblolly pine article and see what it says about central Texas (SA is south central Texas).

 * The Pueblo, Navajo, desert, semi-arid or arid climate, high concentration of adobe, dry vegetation, authentic Southwest cuisine (Tex-Mex is not). These are common denominators of a southwestern area. San Antonio has none of these.

 * Please don't act as if I'm going mad trying to prove a point. No one is ranting and raving. When I said "end of story" I meant that there really is nothing else that can be said because I felt I proved my point. I wasn't implying that you couldn't say anything else. You can say whatever you want as far as I'm concerned, but stop being so defensive. But every valid point I bring up seems to go in one ear and out the other. You have yet to give me one correct, commonly sensible, generally accepted fact as to why SA is SW. I have given you plenty of reasons why it identifies with the South. But I grow tired, and right now I feel that we should probably just put in the article that San Antonio's location is disputed, but I would not recommend this article to anyone. I still don't see how you could get any more official than the Encyclopaedia Britannica. That's a source older than probably everybody on this website.--Mphifer254 03:58, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

San Antonio has a 61% Hispanic (of any race) population and Houston has about a 40% Hispanic (of any race) population. Not really the same, but close enough, and I know for a fact that there are more Mexicans in Houston metro than there are in San Antonio.--Mphifer254 04:06, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Encyclopaedia Britannica is updated every year and is one source among many. It is a good reference, but is not God on every subject. They do make mistakes.
 * The Pueblo, Navajo, desert, semi-arid or arid climate, high concentration of adobe, dry vegetation, authentic Southwest cuisine (Tex-Mex is not). These are common denominators of a southwestern area. San Antonio has none of these. Where did you pull this from? Since when is Tex-Mex not authentic Southwest cuisine? Wikipedia begs to differ.
 * Hispanics are not Mexicans!!! Take the time to find out the difference (hint: one is a nationality of a crime-ridden, drug-lord ruled country). I take Great offense at you lack of a distinction!
 * As for the loblolly pine, read the article yourself "Loblolly Pine is the pine of the "Lost Pines" area around Bastrop, Texas and in McKinney Roughs along the Texas Colorado River. These are isolated populations on areas of acidic sandy soil, surrounded by alkaline clays that are poor for pine growth." In short, the soils in San Antonio cannot support the trees you purport to be an expert on. Additionally, Central and South-Central Texas are two different places. I also used to travel through Bastrop to Texas A&M 30-40 times per year and it is a pretty stark contrast to go from 10-20 foot live oak trees to 40+ foot loblolly pines simply passing from one side of the city to the other. San Antonio is DOMINATED by live oaks and cedars.
 * I grow tired of disproving all of your claims:
 * "There are pine trees all over [San Antonio]." No there aren't and your source article states they cannot survive outside of limited (and specifically noted) areas in Central Texas.
 * "You do not see pine trees in the Southwest." Yes you do. In fact, some of them are the oldest living species of any living entity.
 * "There is no desert in San Antonio." This is a red herring since being in a desert is not a qualification of being in the Southwest.
 * "San Antonio has a 61% Hispanic (of any race) population and Houston has about a 40% Hispanic (of any race) population. Not really the same, but close enough." Houston is around 33%. Percentage-wise, they are not even close and that is what is at play here. If you have a city of 1,000,000 and 1,000 Hispanics, no one would consider them a Hispanic city, but it a city of 1,500 has 1,000 Hispanics, then it is. Hmmm. By the actual numbers (ones with included references: [|61%]×1,256,509=766,470, but [|33%]×2,076,189=685,142. 766,470>685,142, but you "know" you're correct.
 * "I felt I proved my point...[E]very valid point I bring up seems to go in one ear and out the other." A lot of points you bring up are wrong. Have you ever considered that your opinions are based on emotions and not facts? Have you ever considered that your opinions are wrong?
 * In short, if you keep making up the qualifications of a Southwest city, eventually you'll get a definition that fits only the cities you want, but many of your claims are false.

 * I believe that San Antonio should be referred to as a crossroads between the South and the Southwest. Would you agree? — BQZip01 —  talk 05:14, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

 * LOL, YOU STILL HAVE NOT GIVEN ME ANY WAY THAT THE CITY OF SAN ANTONIO IDENTIFIES WITH THE SOUTHWEST. Except for the Mexican thing (and I know what Hispanic is). As far as those "common denominators" of the Southwest go, look at the articles for each one and you'll see what I mean. And the Tex-Mex issue, go to the Southwest article and read the very last sentence. The Houston Hispanic population is not 33%. Reference to the U.S. Census Bureau website, Houston Hispanic pop is 42.3% putting the number of Hispanics (presumably predominant Mexican) at 820,510 (so there are indeed more in Houston). And that's just the city limits, if you set aside enough time you could factor in Houston's metro that adds 3.5 million people, so I'm almost positive that would make Houston's Mexican-American population double the size of San Antonio's.

 * Now, how exactly were any of my claims "false"? What lies have I told? I really want to know what bubbling emotions lead me to believe that San Antonio is southern. Keep in mind that I am a resident of Houston, so if you were implying that I was just a SA resident trying to qualify as southern...not quite. That said, I hope that statement puts me at a level playing field and allows me to be taken seriously.--Mphifer254 07:29, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Mphier's False Claims (I never said you lied, and these are just two...I don't feel that I need to do any more):
 * "There are pine trees all over [San Antonio]."; "Well I can tell you right now that you're wrong because [pine trees are] all over the place."
 * "You do not see pine trees in the Southwest."

 * Why Mphier's Claims are false:
 * The loblolly pine, which you claim to be "all over San Antonio" do not exist there. "Loblolly Pine is the pine of the "Lost Pines" area around Bastrop, Texas and in McKinney Roughs along the Texas Colorado River. These are isolated populations on areas of acidic sandy soil, surrounded by alkaline clays that are poor for pine growth." In short, the soils in San Antonio cannot support the trees you purport to be an expert on. Additionally, Central and South-Central Texas are two different places. I also used to travel through Bastrop to Texas A&M 30-40 times per year and it is a pretty stark contrast to go from 10-20 foot live oak trees to 40+ foot loblolly pines simply passing from one side of the city to the other. San Antonio is DOMINATED by live oaks and cedars.
 * The Bristlecone Pine is the oldest known tree around and is found all over the Southwest.

 * Ouside of your dictionary and enclyclopedia references, the rest of your claims seem to be just your opinion.
 * "[San Antonio is not] Pueblo, Navajo, desert, semi-arid or arid climate, high concentration of adobe, dry vegetation, authentic Southwest cuisine, [of which Tex-Mex is not]."
 * "San Antonio is entirely too green..."
 * "Historically, it is in the West. All but the thirteen colonies and Florida are considered the West. But geographically, it isn't."
 * "Everyone will always have their uneducated opinion, but in educating the masses, this article should be based on solid fact."
 * As for the whole census thing, fine. I already conceded that Houston has more by current estimates, but San Antonio still has more percentage-wise. As for the rest, I think we're just going to have to agree to disagree, but I think the following compromise is accurate:

 * San Antonio is as a crossroads between the cultures of the South and the Southwest.

 * — BQZip01 — talk 15:44, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

I think User:BQZip01 went into the trouble of answering all Mphifer's arguments. All I will say is that it feels a heck of alot more Southwestern-ish here in SA than it does back in Tennessee and Arkansas, where I grew up. It's not that Green here as Mphifer says, especially compared to the classical south states KY, MS, AR, TN, GA, etc. And each time I walk in the Hill Country north of 1604 along I-10, I sure as heck feel the Southwestern influence. Not to mention that chances of hearing Spanish here in the streets are tenfold than hearing it in, say, Houston. I recommend the book "Our Southwest" By Erna Fergusson, where the book talks about San Antonio and "what is the southwest?". Maybe Mphifer should come down to SA and watch our annual Fiesta San Antonio celebrations, which start in a few days, to see just how strong the Southwestern influence here is. That said, we also have a famous San Antonio Stock Show & Rodeo here, and I can also see strong influences from "The South". So, I think it would be best accurate just to say "San Antonio is at a crossroads between the cultures of the South and the Southwest", as User:BQZip01 has mentioned, even though personally I feel that the Southwestern component is a bit more stronger. But then again, that's just my opinion.--Zereshk 18:10, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

 * (late response) Well I can tell you right now that you're wrong because they're all over the place. You can certainly tell me your opinion; but it does not improve my assessment of your knowledge in the region. I'm willing to assume good faith that you believe it; so I'll have to ask for clarification.  Are you saying that they are "all over the place" in private landscaping; on in actual "wild" settings?  Are you really saying they're the 100' East Texas like Loblolly Pines, or some smaller version of the same that we're all missing?  Maybe you're confusing them with some of the larger cedars?  I'm really at a loss here; it's simply not possible to miss massive forests of giant pine trees.  Maybe you could tell me a couple of specific locations were you've seen them to help me out?  I am genuinely curious.

 * After reading Zereshk's breakdown, I'm inclined to agree with BQZip01's crossroads comment. San Antonio does not readily lend itself to a specific cultural labeling; as nebulously subjective as those are to begin with.  Kuru  talk  21:27, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

 * How I'm feeling right now, I could care less what you guys do with the article. Seriously, lol. Have your way with it. But it was really cool debating it with everybody. Probably the best discussion I've had on this site :D.--Mphifer254 23:01, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Let me add my 2 cents.

1) There are no pine trees in San Antonio (I live in the area). There are however, a lot of cedar trees, which kind of look like a smaller version of pine trees and are evergreen trees.  The closest loblolly pine trees (100' tall pine trees) are located about an hour to the north east in Bastrop.  There are other pine stands as you get closer to Houston along I-10, as well, but none near San Antonio (within an hour of the city).  I am sure some people have planted pines, but they did not grow naturally.  The main trees that grow naturally (without being transplanted) in SA are the Live Oak and Cedar.  Cypress is common along the local rivers too.

2) San Antonio is a subtropical climate in a transition climate to semi arid. Subtropical means not tropical, but transitioning to tropical.  All of the Southeastern US and most of Texas fit into this category.  East of San Antonio is Hot/Humid moist tropical air from the gulf.  West of San Antonio is Hot/Dry air from the Southwest and Mexico.  SA is nearly the dividing point between the 2.  Look up the definition of Subtropical and San Antonio is located in most maps in the subtropical portion.  Whereas, areas around Del Rio westward are located in the Semi-Arid climate.

3) San Antonio is "fairly" green, but is highly susceptible to droughts and dry weather, unlike the immediate gulf coast (for example Houston), which are greener and have bigger trees (pines, etc.)  SA is in a transition from the very green southeast to the desert southwest, and can be green or brown, depending on whether it is a drought year.  Right now it is very green, due to much rainfall this year.

4) San Antonio is in a transition zone between the Southern US and Southwest. I would call it South Central US, but Southwest would not necesarily be wrong.  Neither would Southern, or southcentral.  It is right in the middle of the transition between the two.  131.44.121.252 18:43, 26 June 2007 (UTC)

Okay, I admit I'm an outsider; but this whole SA being in the South or Southwest has really got my attention. I just want to throw out a few observations...

1) According to the 2000 Census the San Antonio metro area is 51.7% Latino. The city is about 59% Latino. Latinos form the majority of the population under both measures. 2) The roots of San Antonio are Spanish. 3) Until recently a good portion of non-Latinos living in the American Southwest, were more likely to either be Southerners or people whose forefathers lived in the South. 4) While definitely not a model of tolerance at the time, San Antonio does not quite have the Jim Crow history that other Southern cities had [ http://www.amazon.com/African-Americans-Relations-1867-1937-American/dp/0815330766 ].

In my opinion, I believe San Antonio has more in common with the American Southwest than the South. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 170.3.8.253 (talk) 17:47, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Scrolling image
BQZip01,

Do you think it would be better to have instead of the  for the STMC? It has the advantage that it is 4000 pixles wide, so it would look better in scrolling format. But then, we can put "1500px" inside the tag, like they did over here (to reduce the Hong Kong pic's width from 3495 to 2500px), so the image wont appear too high (or tall) in the article, like it currently does.--Zereshk 19:31, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

 * ABSOLUTELY!!! Fabulous find! — BQZip01 —  talk 04:33, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 * Added it. Very nice find!!! — BQZip01 —  talk 04:38, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

To-Do list
I added a To-Do list with several tasks I thought the article needs. Feel free to discuss, or even add any tasks. --I Are Scientists 02:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Correction - Camp Stanley
The reference to Camp Stanley links to a description of Camp Stanley, South Korea, not the one in San Antonio.70.251.194.91 01:23, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Thanks - changed it to a redlink to an empty article for now. Kuru  talk  01:55, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Image: Skyline
The current image of San Antonio's skyline looks old and outdated. It is very dull. It doesn't even include San Antonio's signature Tower of the Americas. I hope we can find a replacement. -- Longhornsguy07 13:25 01 June 2007

 * Given the angle, I would not be surprised if it was taken from the tower. :) - TexasAndroid 18:54, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

 * It looks like it was. I personally have no problem with the image myself. Dknights411 01:29, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Yes, it's from the tower. You can tell by the way it's looking down on Alamo St. and those cube looking hotel rooms.  It's not that this is a bad pic, just not the best of San Antonio's sky line.  --Brownings 02:41, 2 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Well, a new image has been changed out on the main page. It's better than the old, but there is a problem.  The image has already been tagged for Speedy Deletion.  --Brownings 18:53, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

 * If/when it's deleted, it's a simple revert to get back to the previous image. Nice try, but we cannot bend the project's license rules just because we like the new pic better. - TexasAndroid 19:01, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

 * I actually prefered the old pic myself. Dknights411 00:09, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

As you may have seen, I've uploaded a GFDL image for the skyline. I took the photo today, so that it's a current as can possibly be. It's not 100% perfect, but better than the other two posted. If anyone can get a better shot from another viewpoint, please feel free. --Brownings 01:18, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Pretty much the outcome *I* was hoping for. Good job, and thank you for getting it done. - TexasAndroid 03:36, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Much better! More buildings, and this one shows the tower!    Longhornsguy07 20:24, 11 June 2007

Spurs
One is inclined to think the Spurs deserve a mention in the lead by virtue of what they have accomplished in recent seasons -- as such I have included one line mentioning the Spurs. I also think that this article uses too much bolding, which contravenes Wikipedia's manual of style guidelines I believe. Manderiko 20:33, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Propose split/break-out
The article is a bit on the large size. I see at least one section that could easily be split out to it's own article, reducing a good chunk of the article size. Namely the culture section. This section could be easily move wholesale to a new article to cut down on size here. The Neighborhoods section is another good candidate for break-out, IMHO. So I am declaring my intention to break-out at least these two sections within the next couple of days, baring any major objections. The point of this post is to give a chance for anyone objecting before I dive into this. - TexasAndroid 13:23, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Two days, no comments, let alone objections. I'm moving forward with splitting out the culture and possibly the Neighborhood sections into separate articles. - TexasAndroid 17:39, 8 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Basic break-out is done. The main article is still ~44K, a little large, but much better than the ~70K it was at before the split.  I'm thinking about what else could be split out, but nothing else is quite as obvious. Oh well, no rush. - TexasAndroid 18:24, 8 June 2007 (UTC)

 * Yes, the article is still large and has imformation that could be split out. Good work!  Longhornsguy07 20:26, 11 June 2007

[http://www.nytimes.com/2007/06/15/sports/basketball/15nba.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin Sweep baby! Sweep!] --Zereshk 05:55, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Importance Upgrade?
Isn't it surprising that San Antonio is only rated High Importance in Wikiproject Texas? Seeing as it is the 7th most populous city in the US (3rd most in Texas)and a big center of Texas history it should be Top importance. Under the criteria for Top importance in Wikiproject Texas is: Cities over 100,000 and major metropolitan areas. San Antonio definitely meets that criteria. I would have changed it immediately but I wanted an opinion first, although seeing as how cities like Abilene and Carrollton are Top Importance it would be stupid not to make it Top. Dabomb87 00:47, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree with your comments. Nothing more to add, really. - TexasAndroid 15:00, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks. I changed it. Dabomb87 23:12, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree with the change. Thanks for looking into this.  --Brownings 01:08, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

 * No problem. I like to see a certain amount of consistency. Dabomb87 19:14, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

How does one edit the weather/climate table?
The date for the Feb. all-time high is wrong -- it should be 1996, not 1986. But when editing the page all I see is for the table. How does one access the table to edit it? I couldn't find anything in the Wiki help that discussed this. 129.162.1.31 23:30, 15 October 2007 (UTC)

 * I made the changes. Actually finding those Wikipedia infoboxes is a total pain the butt.  I've got the syntax written down somewhere, but never seem to be home when I actually need the information.  As a work around, just Google whatever infobox you're looking for, and it's usually the first or second link.  In the case of this box, I just Googled "San Antonio weatherbox wikipedia" and it took me right to it.  Cheers, and thanks for dropping by to contribute.  --Brownings 00:56, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Nicknames
Alamo City is not the only or even the most common nickname for San Antonio. Let's reflect that. :) Ran into the same problem on the Houston page, although there they were nice enough to include the alternative nicknames in the Culture Section. Archived Discussion (here) has a few natives taking exception to the usage of "San Antone" within the city, but regardless of local usage (& I have heard it called San Antone in San Antone), it's a nickname used elsewhere.

Google currently gives
 * c.183,000 for "river city" "san antonio" -wiki
 * c.151,000 for "san antone" -wiki
 * c.99,400 for "alamo city" "san antonio" -wiki
 * c.67,200 for "san antone" texas -wiki
 * c.63,000 for "san anto" "san antonio" -wiki
 * c.34,400 for "san antone" "san antonio" -wiki
 * c.15,400 for "military city" "san antonio" -wiki
 * c.14,300 for "mission city" "san antonio" -wiki
 * c.12,200 for "SA town" "san antonio" -wiki

The minor ones, it's ok to list lower, but the info box really should at least have the nicknames more common than the given one or some notice that it's only the official nickname from the town's tourism board. -LlywelynII (talk) 07:20, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Education Revamp
I think that in order to successfully change the Education list into prose as suggested, what might be more effective is to have it reflect the ordering of the New York City page, where an Education section lists an overview of the big schools and accomplishments, but it links to Main article: Education in New York City. On that page, all of the schools are broken out in detail. However, it also references the List of colleges and universities in New York City for those people that want to view it in list form. This is relevant for the San Antonio page because of the number of schools listed that have their own Wikipedia pages, and those connections should not be lost. Kat Malone (talk) 16:13, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I have added the Split Section tag to hopefully prompt some discussion around the above. Kat Malone (talk) 14:38, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

Removed text
(** NOTE: There are sometimes fictitious references to a saint by the name of Valero; however, in the history of mankind, there was never any saint by the name of Valero. Further, the official archives document the 13 June 1691 naming of the place as San Antonio. )

I removed this following text from the "History" section because it seemed like vandalism, generally based on the wording and style, and also because the word "Valero" is only mentioned in this article one other time, and not about a saint. If this information is actually correct, reword it and put it back in the article. Jon Alten (talk) 05:06, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

Talk about biking in Transportation section
I'm new at this and hesitate to remove someone else's writing, so I'm asking for comments before taking action here. The Transportation section includes a section on biking which seems not to fit under that heading, since it mostly refers to biking for sport rather than for transportation. Also, it makes opinion-based statements with no sourcing (like the comment that says that SA is not as bicycle friendly as some coastal cities); I don't disagree with the opinions but I didn't think this the appropriate place to state them. I may pull the paragraph and put it here so that someone else can put it where they think it belongs.BLT (talk) 03:00, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * It sounds like a rouge edit that someone made at some point. I agree that it shouldn't be in the Transportation section.  There are many cities in the US where biking to work is common, but SA isn't one of them.  --Brownings (talk) 03:10, 8 March 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes - well, my husband bikes to work, but that's neither here nor there. :) I've pulled the paragraph, and will dump it here, with minor corrections, so that someone can put it back in a place where it fits better. Some parts of it could stay in the transportation section, like the parts about the bike lanes, but it's all so mixed in with opinion right now that I'm not going to do it at this moment. -BLT (talk) 03:40, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

"Transportation by bicycle is safe on some roads, not as safe on other roads. In general, San Antonio may not be as bicycle friendly as a form of transport as some coastal US cities. There are designated bicycle lanes on a percentage of the city roads such as historical districts, missions trails, university paths and surrounding areas. Many independent organized groups of people in or out of the city meet on set days to go on group bicycle rides together. Group rides vary dramatically in skill level, depending on the type of ride and the riders involved. Group rides can be very diverse, oriented to many unique groups and purposes ranging from touring, recreation, general transportation, socializing, family entertainment, or professional athletic training. Organized road or mountain bike rides meet up with one group or another almost every day. Popular mountain bike trail parks are McAllister Park, O.P. Schnabel Park, and Government Canyon State Natural Area."

South Texas?
I have been a Texan for 30 years, and in that time, I have never heard of San Antonio referred to as being in South Texas. It's in Central Texas. While it may be on the border, as is explained in the "Central Texas" page, I think it's inaccurate for the "Texas" and "San Antonio" pages to categorize it as South. It may be culturally closer to the South, but geographically, it's definitely, and inarguably central. I'm curious what San Antonio residents think.

Perhaps it's important to be more clear as to whether you are talking about geography or culture. (The article implied geography.) Take Houston--culturally Houstonians think of themselves as Gulf Coast Texans, despite the fact that we are geographically in the east. Culturally, these two regions are very, very different. Geographically, Houston is east and San Antonio is central; culturally, Houston is Gulf Coast and San Antonio is South. 72.20.141.164 (talk) 20:08, 19 March 2008 (UTC)littlehunt —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.20.141.164 (talk) 20:04, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I have always thought of it as South Texas, Austin would be Central Texas. --Holderca1talk 22:23, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * I concur, I always recognized San Antonio as South Texas, and Austin as South and East of Center-- nevertheless Central. --DavidD4scnrt (talk) 04:08, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

I think it is South-Central Texas because of being on the Border of both. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.107.127.20 (talk) 23:51, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

San Antonio born and raised here. We have never considered ourselves anything except South Texas. Even if we are in northern south texas, we still consider it south Texas. Interestingly enough, once you get to Austin, that is considered Central Texas (1 hr north). Culturally, San Antonio Shares a lot more with Corpus Christi, Laredo and the Rio Grande Valley than it does with Austin. Geographically, the majority of San Antonio lies below the Balcones Heights escarpment in the plains, once again sharing more geographically with most of South Texas than with the hilly terrain of Central Texas. Yes, the northside of San Antonio begins to start becoming hilly, but not to the extent of most of Central Texas. All newscasters in San Antonio refer to us as South Texas. Our local newspapers call us south Texas. It's safe to say we're SOUTH TEXAS. (FYI The CAPITAL of South Texas ;) ) (76.79.9.129 (talk) 15:20, 4 June 2009 (UTC))
 * Texas Highways Magazine defines South Texas as extending from San Antonio to the Mexican Border. I've live in San Antonio for 28 of my 43 years a agree with that definition.  Austin is a whole 'nother world from us but Brownsville ain't that different: --Mikebrand (talk) 03:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)
 * http://www.texashighways.com/index.php/destinations

More pictures of the river walk
The best part of San Antonio is the river walk. It would be nice to get more views, such as people eating on the river, night pictures with lighting, etc. etc.Rlbarton (talk) 20:47, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There's a whole gallery of them already over at San Antonio River Walk. IMHO they much rather belong over there than in the main SA article.  The Riverwalk is just one part of SA, and I don't think it works to have it have more pictures than the other parts of the city. - TexasAndroid (talk) 21:08, 31 March 2008 (UTC)
 * The best part isnt the river walk. It's the things involved with the culture of the city. The riverwalk is on this list but there are others such as the missions, the basilica and cathedral, the malls, parks, and other family orientated things.  Mc134 (talk) 00:26, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Downtown Description
I question the first sentence under the Downtown heading: "Because of its status as a historic urban center, the architecture and layout of San Antonio are more traditionally urban than other cities in Texas, such as Dallas and Austin, which have developed in the last half century."

What is "traditionally urban"? That seems vague, as does the reference to downtown S.A. as a historic urban center. Does this refer to a listing in the national historic register? If so, Austin has three historic districts and a number of historic buildings. However, if that's what the reference means, it has cause and effect mixed up. Also, while there has been a lot of development in downtown Austin in the last half century, the layout hasn't changed since 1839. I won't speak for Dallas, since I haven't lived there. Unless someone has a clarification, I will just strike the entire sentence. Tfb787 (talk) 06:06, 1 May 2008 (UTC) tfb787
 * I'm not sure what it's talking about. What the heck is "traditionally urban" anyway?  I live in downtown SA, so from what I've experienced "traditionally urban" would mean fewer people, less services, and a shortage of retail.  --Brownings (talk) 10:58, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Buffalo Bisons?
Does anybodoy know why there is a photo of the Bisons' field in the sports section? I have a few photos of Wolff Stadium and I'd be happy to contribute one to take the place of Dunn Tire Park. Unless there's a good reason for it to be displayed there? Ensign beedrill (talk) 20:40, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * My guess, cut&paste error by the sports editor who added the teams template this morning. I've informed him of the error, and of this conversation. - TexasAndroid (talk) 20:51, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * As for Nelson W. Wolff Municipal Stadium, even if the SA article does not need them, a photo or two on the stadium's article would be great. - TexasAndroid (talk) 20:53, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Not a bad idea. I'll see about that. Ensign beedrill (talk) 02:45, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
 * My fault - yes, this is a cut & past error (I added the template). Please accept my deepest apologies and feel free to add a ballpark picture. Tom Danson (talk) 21:09, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

San Antonio Spurs
How many times do the Spurs need to be mentioned in this article? It just seems a little more than necessary. Any other comments on this?Atlantabravz (talk) 14:58, 3 September 2008 (UTC)
 * To me, living here in San Antonio, i feel like this is the smallest large city. we dont have subways, monorails, skybrigdes, etc but the spurs are what get us on the map.   Mc134 (talk) 00:28, 26 February 2010 (UTC)

Requested move
There is currently a proposal on the table to amend the Wikipedia naming conventions for US cities to follow the AP Stylebook's suggested names. This would effectively move a number of US city articles currently on the list, so San Antonio, Texas would be moved to San Antonio. To comment on this discussion, please go here. --Serge (talk) 17:43, 16 October 2008 (UTC)

San Antonio taskforce
I would like to form a San Antonio taskforce covering Greater San Antonio. WhisperToMe (talk) 09:02, 16 October 2009 (UTC)

Observation: Rating
Though this article has some good citations it is lacking severely in some areas. Should it really have a B rating at this point?

--Mcorazao (talk) 22:16, 18 November 2009 (UTC)

History
Folks,

I took the liberty of creating History of San Antonio, linking the History section of this one to that article, and shortening the History section here. IMHO the History section here was getting too long.

Please feel free to change anything I have done as you see fit.

--Mcorazao (talk) 20:27, 20 January 2010 (UTC)

Changes to the contents section
Making changes that include specific phenomenon like the Mexodus should be made within a category within the contents section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jvaio2003 (talk • contribs) 04:58, 21 June 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you please be more specific on why you have removed the section instead of moving it "within a category withing the contents section"? It's not very clear what you're suggesting.  Kuru   (talk)  11:28, 21 June 2012 (UTC)

Mexodus was placed in its own category and within the contents section earlier and I took the liberty of removing it because of its irrelevance to the overall framework of a city wiki. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jvaio2003 (talk • contribs) 06:04, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Population of San Antonio
Now that the 2010 US Census figures are all in and the Census Bureau has officially tallied San Antonio's population at 1,327,407 (as per KSAT 12 San Antonio and KGBT 4 Harlingen), don't you think the population figures should be updated, both on the infobox and in the section regarding population figures? Everything else stays the same, except the distinction of S.A. being the seventh largest city in the U.S. and the second largest in Texas is now official as of the most recent census. 68.91.253.123 (talk) 06:05, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * I noticed that the "2010 estimate" was a 2008 estimate, so the previous information was incorrect. Also, the populations of several large Texas cities (Houston, Dallas, San Antonio) came in below estimates, suggesting either the estimates were too high, the population dropped during the Great Recession, or the counts are low based on fewer illegal immigrants volunteering to be counted.
 * I think the estimates were simply meant to be estimates, not hard and fast numbers, though the actual U.S. Census numbers don't stray too far from the estimates. Also, I heard that about 75% of all San Antonio households responded to the Census; perhaps if a slightly higher percentage of the households had, the numbers would've aligned much closer to the estimates.  Although I think you're overlooking one possible contributing factor to the lower reported numbers:  Certain elements of the Tea Party expressed an interest in not participating in the Census as a form of protest.  68.91.253.123 (talk) 03:52, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Whatever the reason, it is sensible to use the updated figures, especially when claiming the data is 2010. Still, the pop. density number may need updating as well. Ryoung 122 12:06, 18 February 2011 (UTC)
 * That's true. Anyway, thanks so much to the person/people who changed the population figures to represent the official reported figures as per local/nearby media sources.  68.91.253.123 (talk) 03:52, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Canary Islanders who arrived in 1731
This section could be expanded to link it to the extraordinary volcanic eruptions on the Canary Island of Lanzarote in 1730-1736, (they added 30% to the size of the island!). An edit could also be made to the Lanzarote page, which says nothing about San Antonio. Plenty of information on this at http://cida-sa.org/index.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 217.155.193.120 (talk) 22:18, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

Geography
The San Antonio River is not mentioned in that section. --Jerome Potts (talk) 20:07, 16 September 2013 (UTC)
 * That is odd; will rewrite this weekend unless someone beats me to it. Nice catch. Kuru   (talk)  00:53, 17 September 2013 (UTC)

Politics
This article describes nothing about San Antonio politics and how the people of the area tend to lean -i.e. conservative or liberal? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.45.75.11 (talk) 03:51, 15 October 2013 (UTC)

General overview section of main article needs to have references added.
There are none, several possibilities are listed as supposed quotes eg., Chamber of Commerce but there is nothing inline. I'm not from the area nor have visited so I don't know where proper information can be found. Rjhawkin (talk) 01:46, 18 December 2013 (UTC)

Dubious - that June usually has higher heat index than July or August
I removed the following assertion because it doesn't appear to be correct:
 * ", however with the heat index June often feels hotter than the July and August"

The average temperature in June is lower than in July or August. Plus, the average dew point in June is equal to the August average dew point and less than the average July dew point. Therefore, the average heat index is June is lower. If something else was meant by "often", that should be noted, and not weasel-worded in there. Ufwuct (talk) 18:01, 27 January 2014 (UTC)

Are mayors relevant to San Antonio history?
User Dicklyon deleted names of several mayors from the Timeline of San Antonio (here and here), claiming they lack historical signficance. I disagree; mayors are part of San Antonio's history. What do others think? Do mayors belong in the timeline of San Antonio history or not? -- M2545 (talk) 07:11, 15 December 2014 (UTC)

 * I think it's a great idea to include mayors that are known for something other than being mayor San Antonio. But if the only reason they're in the list is because they were mayor, it's hard to see why anyone could consider a random subset of them to be signficant events in a timeline; they will still be in the list of mayors for people who care about the complete chronology.  Dicklyon (talk) 03:12, 17 December 2014 (UTC)

NCAA Division I Football
The University of the Incarnate Word has Division I college football, and although they did not start out as Division I, it might also be worth noting that they were the first university football team in San Antonio -before UTSA. (UIW 2009; UTSA 2011) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.54.197.61 (talk) 18:39, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

False. Trinity University has had "university football" since at least 1900 and played scholarship ball prior to the mid-1970s. 2602:306:3BF6:AEA0:DEB:476D:9C5B:1E1B (talk) 03:33, 15 March 2015 (UTC)

Timeline of San Antonio
What is missing from the recently created city timeline article? Please add relevant content. Contributions welcome. Thank you. -- M2545 (talk) 13:52, 19 May 2015 (UTC)

Map of San Antonio
The map on this website only shows San Antonio in Bexar County. But the city supposedly extends into Medina and Comal Counties as well. I have not been able to find a map that explicitly shows the city boundaries extending into those counties. Can someone provide a link for such a map?Inkan1969 (talk) 15:58, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The San Antonio website has a map of annexations. The map confirms that SA now extends into Medina County, but no part of SA extends into Comal County yet.  So I'm changing the website.Inkan1969 (talk) 18:27, 19 August 2015 (UTC)
 * The incursion is shown on that PDF map, just not very well since it's tiny. Use the actual GIS tool at the San Antonio site, or the one at the Comal County site here (turn on the "cities" layer). There's a very small parcel that is a part of the Alamo Cement quarry tract; clearly noted as in Comal County (near Garden Ridge).  As I remarked, this is "pedantically" accurate - both incursions are tiny in the grand scheme of things.  I seem to recall being on your side of this (I thought SA was limited to Bexar) until someone pointed it out to me years ago.  Kuru   (talk)  00:07, 20 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the tip, Kuru. I never would've found that small incursion on the San Antonio website maps.Inkan1969 (talk) 21:13, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Neither would I; had to have my nose rubbed in it. :) Kuru   (talk)  01:28, 24 August 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 7 one external links on San Antonio. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20111106072534/http://www.census.gov:80/popest/cities/tables/SUB-EST2008-01.csv to http://www.census.gov/popest/cities/tables/SUB-EST2008-01.csv
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20130309153607/http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/cb07-51tbl1.pdf to http://www.census.gov/Press-Release/www/releases/archives/cb07-51tbl1.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080515131306/http://www.mysanantonio.com:80/sports/football/nfl/cowboys/stories/MYSA040106.1C.FBNcowboys.alamodome.7ea018dc.html to http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/football/nfl/cowboys/stories/MYSA040106.1C.FBNcowboys.alamodome.7ea018dc.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20100715134542/http://www.mysanantonio.com:80/sports/football/nfl/stories/MYSA050506.3D.FBNcowboys.jones.c71335d.html to http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/football/nfl/stories/MYSA050506.3D.FBNcowboys.jones.c71335d.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080515130618/http://www.mysanantonio.com:80/news/crime/stories/MYSA031107.01A.Fireresponsetimes.370d0e6.html to http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/crime/stories/MYSA031107.01A.Fireresponsetimes.370d0e6.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110904002737/http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us:80/parole/parole-directory/paroledir-rgnldisparoff4.htm to http://www.tdcj.state.tx.us/parole/parole-directory/paroledir-rgnldisparoff4.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150203091009/http://usps.whitepages.com/service/post_office/san-antonio-10410-perrin-beitel-rd-san-antonio-tx-1435860 to http://usps.whitepages.com/service/post_office/san-antonio-10410-perrin-beitel-rd-san-antonio-tx-1435860

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Cheers. —cyberbot II  Talk to my owner :Online 11:31, 28 August 2015 (UTC)

San Antonio...part of the American South or the American Southwest? Central Texan or South Texan?
The impression I have of San Antonio is the following...while it's geographically located in the American South and arguably in Central Texas, culturally it's American Southwestern and South Texan. This is based on previous comments from people from the area. If you look at the history of the city, it has a very strong Spanish and Mexican influence, unlike many other cities of the American South and it did not really have the legacy of slavery. There is still a substantial Latino population in the area, which has been the case throughout the city's history. These facts would make the city more southwestern and South Texan and less "southern" or and "Central Texan" in nature. Thoughts? G. Capo (talk) 00:38, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I'm from El Paso, which is definitely Southwestern, and my mom is from near San Antonio, and when we visited there my impression was always that it was a very different place from the Southwest, in terms of climate, accent, and culture. You're right in that they're both part of the nation "El Norte" (see map); San Antonio's Bexar County is right on the border of "Greater Appalachia" though.  So it's quite a mix.  Dicklyon (talk) 02:00, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 * For what it's worth, I live in San Antonio, have visited many places in the American South, and would basically agree with this assessment (that San Antonio is a closer cultural fit to the American Southwest, than it is to the American South). Jericevans (talk) 15:45, 18 April 2016 (UTC)
 * For sure. But it's closer to places in "Greater Appalachia", like Austin and Dallas, than it is to El Paso, don't you think?  That is, we should be looking in terms of the [ http://www.amazon.com/American-Nations-History-Regional-Cultures/dp/0670022969/ref=tmm_hrd_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr= 11 American "Nations"], rather than the more traditional subdivisions, to understand it better. Dicklyon (talk) 06:24, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * I don't have access to that book, but if the quotes featured here are accurate (and in context), then I would say El Norte is much closer than Greater Appalachia. "El Norte: The oldest of the Euro-American nations, El Norte dates back to the late sixteenth century, when the Spanish empire founded Monterrey, Saltillo, and other outposts in what are now the Mexican-American borderlands." "Greater Appalachia: Founded in the early eighteenth century by wave upon wave of rough, bellicose settlers from the war-ravaged borderlands of northern Ireland, northern England, and the Scottish lowlands, Appalachia has been lampooned by writers and screenwriters as the home of rednecks, hillbillies, crackers, and white trash." Jericevans (talk) 16:44, 19 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The book is great. Those descriptions don't give a clear idea of the cultural elements that those nations bring to central Texas.  Notice that people like Davy Crocket  and other heros of the Alamo were from Tennessee and thereabouts.  Definite hillbilly (greater Appalachia) types.  Big influence in San Antonio, where they ultimately betrayed the Hispanics who were their allies in the revolution of independence from Mexico.  Dicklyon (talk) 01:26, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * SA is in Central Texas. Granted, it is on the edge of the central and southern regions. Culturally closer to south, it is, however, geographically in central Texas.   GenQuest  "Talk to Me" 01:14, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Culturally closer to South? I don't think so.  Closer to central and west Texas.  But it's all mixed in there, including some Midlands/German mixins around New Braunfels.  Even the map in the South Texas article shows Bexar county as mixed. Dicklyon (talk) 01:30, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

- There were several rather lengthy discussions relating to this at Talk:Southwestern United States. While not directly talking about SA, the thrusts of those discussions have a bearing on this discussion. Take a look at the sourcing. I think some mention that there are those (and include citations) who would place SA in the American Southwest, most definitions would not include it there. That being said, I have no opinion on whether it belongs more in the American South, or the American Midwest.  Onel 5969  TT me 03:45, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Certainly not Midwest! The book I recommended with the map link above is a great source; we could use it or others, but let's don't make stuff up.  Dicklyon (talk) 03:50, 20 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Please read the existing discussion. While I agree with you that I don't feel that it belongs in the American Midwest, there are scholars who do. The majority of the references cited in the other discussion put all of Texas, with the exception of the small area around and including El Paso, in the American South. There are lots of social and economic regions why most scholars put it in the Southern region, as well as some geographical ones. Personally I think there's an argument to be made for verbiage close to that I just reverted in the article, something along the lines, "While a majority of scholars [insert several examples] categorize most of Texas, including SA, in the American South, many agree [insert examples] that there is a flavor (or taste, air, whatever) of the American Southwest to the city. From a regional standpoint, it is usually defined as part of the American South". Or something like that - just wrote it off the cuff, but hopefully you get my drift.  Onel 5969  TT me 11:53, 20 April 2016 (UTC)

Based on this discussion I've edited the text to capture what is basically agreed upon. San Antonio straddles Central and South Texas.

History
In the history section it says Juan Leal Goraz Jr claimed 100,000 sq miles (153,766) acres. Unless there is something I don't understand, 100,000 is something like 64 million acres. John Bennett — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:306:CD7F:26E0:59A7:3E4F:F908:B83B (talk) 00:19, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

First paragraph/Introduction
The beginning of the article cites a source stating that San Antonio and New Orleans are the only American cities to of celebrated 300 year anniversaries. However several cities including Philadelphia, Detroit, Boston, St. Augustine, and others were also settled, founded, or incorporated over 300 years ago. Maybe this should be removed by r cleaned up to be more clear? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:100E:B036:5AA2:F813:AB6E:65CA:E88A (talk) 23:29, 19 August 2019 (UTC)
 * I mean, San Juan, Puerto Rico is almost 400 and fits the bill. I think he's trying to say only two were 300 exactly in 2018, but I'm not sure that's really notable for the lead, and the source doesn't make the explicit claim. can you clarify what you're trying to say there?  Kuru   (talk)  00:25, 20 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Bare with me. Still new to Wikipedia’s system of things. I think it’s a fair fact that should be included in not only San Antonio’s page but other pages like New Orleans and cities with a high amount of years of being around. This makes me wonder if a page exists with a list of oldest cities in North America or Worldwide. My intent of it being placed in the introduction is more of a historic numeric fact about the city before the reader dwells further into the history of the city. As far as why the 300 year fact should be included is that it ties in with the oldest city municipality sentence. It flows together and concludes the paragraph with something of relevance as to a milestone in the city’s history. I think this fact needs to be added to the New Orleans page as well. Both cities collaborated with each other via some events recognizing that both cities achieved 300 years in 2018.(Bypassers (talk) 05:06, 20 August 2019 (UTC))

I would like to discuss neighborhoods and subdivisions in San Antonio
The many unique and historic neighborhoods in San Antonio should have a place on Wikipedia San Antonio. Some neighborhoods such as King William or Oakland Estates would be an example. I would be happy to add research and contributions to this effort if there is interest among others. Ross78240 (talk) 11:37, 15 October 2019 (UTC)
 * There's already an existing section, and detailed article at Neighborhoods and districts of San Antonio. Feel free to add to that. Kuru   (talk)  11:49, 15 October 2019 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 16:29, 7 April 2021 (UTC)
 * La Antorcha de la Amistad - Downtown San Antonio.jpg

title: Talk:San Antonio/Archive 2


text:
Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII

Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII (ダージュ オブ ケルベロス -ファイナルファンタジーVII) is a 2006 action role-playing third-person shooter video game developed and published by Square Enix for the PlayStation 2. It is part of the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII metaseries, a multimedia collection set within the universe of Final Fantasy VII. The game is set three years after the events of the original game and focuses on one of the game's playable characters, Vincent Valentine. In the story, Vincent is targeted by Deepground, a mysterious organization that plans to awaken a creature known as Omega, with the ability to destroy the Planet.

As the first shooter game in the Final Fantasy series, the game's staff had various problems during development, and producer Yoshinori Kitase found the experience challenging. The team added role-playing elements in order to make the game more entertaining for traditional fans of the main series. When Dirge of Cerberus was released outside Japan, several aspects of the gameplay were modified in order to make it more appealing. In 2008, Square republished the game in Japan with the updates made for the Western versions. The game received mixed critical reaction.

Gameplay
Dirge of Cerberus is an action role-playing third-person shooter featuring real-time battles, with the HUD displaying information such as Vincent's hit points and magic points, the currently selected item and its quantity, and a cross-hair to aid in targeting enemies. The action is viewed from an over-the-shoulder perspective similar to Resident Evil 4, although players have the option to switch to a first-person perspective. Defeating enemies yields EXP, and at the end of each stage, the player can either use EXP to level up, increasing Vincent's stats, or convert it to Gil, the in-game currency which can be used to purchase items and equipment upgrades.

Unlike Final Fantasy VII, where a character could equip three types of equipment, weapon, armor, and accessory, Vincent's equipment consists solely of his weapon, which can contribute to his armor rating and enhance his stats through customization. Vincent has three basic gun frames available to him; a three-barrel handgun called Cerberus, a rifle called Hydra, and a machine gun called Griffon. There are also several different barrels available throughout the game; short, regular, and long, with longer barrels allowing easier long-range targeting, but reducing Vincent's movement speed due to their weight. Accessories, which can be attached to the weapons, include a sniper scope, charms that can increase Vincent's defense and decrease the weight of the gun, and materia, which enables magic shots with special properties that consume Vincent's magic points. Ammunition capacity can also be increased through upgrades.

Vincent's Limit Breaks return from the original Final Fantasy VII, with two forms being available. The first is Galian Beast, in which Vincent transforms into a large creature with enhanced speed and strength, which lasts for 30 seconds. The second is Chaos, Vincent's most powerful form, which is only available in the final stages of the game.

Background
Dirge of Cerberus centers on Vincent Valentine, who is the main playable character, although Cait Sith is playable for a single level. The game's main antagonists are the members of the organization Deepground, who plan to use the creature Omega to destroy the Planet's life. Their highest-ranking members are known as the Tsviets, and their leader is Weiss the Immaculate. The second highest-ranking member is Weiss' brother, Nero the Sable, who leads Deepground in the field. Other members of the Tsviets include Rosso the Crimson, Shelke the Transparent and Azul the Cerulean.

The online mode of the game, which is only available in the Japanese version, also introduces a group called the Restrictors, who were the former leaders of Deepground before Weiss took over. The Restrictors' leader implanted microchips into the brainstems of all Deepground soldiers to ensure they never turn against the group. However, Weiss was able to overcome this control method, and the Tsviets wrenched control from the Restrictors. Although Weiss was successful in overthrowing the Restrictors, the leader of the Restrictors was able to implant a virus into Weiss' bloodstream.

Story
The game begins during the climax of Final Fantasy VII. As Vincent and Yuffie Kisaragi help to evacuate Midgar, which is about to be destroyed by Sephiroth's Meteor spell, Vincent finds the body of Professor Hojo slumped at the controls of the Sister Ray cannon. After a flash of lightning, Hojo's body seemingly disappears, and before Vincent can investigate, the cannon explodes, forcing Vincent to escape with Yuffie.

Three years later, Vincent is in the town of Kalm when it is attacked by a group of mysterious soldiers. Vincent, with help from his former comrade, Reeve Tuesti of the World Regenesis Organization (WRO), an organization dedicated to helping the planet recover from the events of Final Fantasy VII, fights the soldiers and forces them to retreat, but many citizens are captured or killed.

Reeve explains to Vincent that the soldiers were members of Deepground, a military organization created as part of a covert Shinra operation to create genetically enhanced super soldiers. Vincent soon learns that he is one of Deepground's primary targets, as he is unknowingly in possession of "Protomateria". It is a substance which he uses to control the "Chaos" gene within him, and which Deepground claims they need to control "Omega". According to ancient tablets discovered years ago, Chaos and Omega have an unknown but important relationship, with Chaos described as being "Omega's squire to the lofty heavens". The Chaos gene was injected into Vincent over thirty years ago by the scientist Lucrecia Crescent, Hojo's research assistant, whom Vincent was in love with.

In an effort to find answers, Vincent goes to the town of Nibelheim, where Lucrecia studied Omega and Chaos. While at Lucrecia's research lab, Vincent is ambushed by Rosso the Crimson, who steals the Protomateria but is prevented from killing Vincent by the arrival of Yuffie. As they return to the WRO headquarters, they find that Deepground has launched an assault on the base. However, Deepground member Shelke the Transparent has been captured by the WRO, and reveals that she is synaptically interconnected to Lucrecia's memories, allowing the WRO to complete Lucrecia's research on Omega. Shelke's sister, Shalua Rui, a high-ranking scientist in the WRO, soon discovers that Omega is a WEAPON, which activates when the Planet senses that it is in mortal danger. Omega's function is to absorb the Lifestream from the Planet and then move to another planet, leaving the inhabitants behind to die. Deepground plans to slaughter a huge number of people at once so as to 'trick' the planet into activating Omega prematurely.

Vincent and the WRO launch a full-scale assault on Deepground's headquarters in Midgar. While Reeve's team battles the Deepground soldiers and attempt to destroy the Mako reactors which serve as a means to revive Omega, Vincent heads to Deepground's center of operations to confront Weiss. He is surprised to find Weiss slumped in his chair, dead. However, as Omega begins to manifest itself, Weiss seemingly revives and confronts Vincent. It is revealed that Weiss is possessed by Hojo; before Hojo was killed in the Mako Cannon three years earlier, he uploaded his consciousness into the Worldwide Network, then took possession of Weiss's body while he was online attempting to find a cure for the virus the Restrictors had infected him with. Hojo/Weiss and Vincent battle to a standstill. However Nero, who had been defeated earlier by Vincent, emerges from the Lifestream and destroys Hojo. Nero then merges with Weiss to help him fuse with Omega, just as Vincent is fused with Chaos.

While the WRO continues to fight the remnants of Deepground, Vincent transforms into Chaos in a desperate attempt to defeat Omega Weiss. Shelke dives inside Omega to find Lucrecia's Protomateria, and upon finding it, she gives it to Vincent, telling him that his survival made Lucrecia happy. Vincent then takes control of Chaos and battles Omega. Omega sprouts wings and tries to ascend from the planet, but Vincent manages to destroy it, disappearing in the process. A week later, he is seen visiting Lucrecia's crystalline tomb in the Crystal Cave. He states that both Chaos and Omega have returned to the Planet, and thanks Lucrecia for being the reason he survived. He is then found by Shelke outside the cave, and she tells him that everyone else is waiting for him.

In the secret ending of the game, "G", a legendary warrior with unexplained connections to Deepground, awakes beneath the ruins of Midgar. He finds Weiss's body and picks it up, telling him "It is not yet time for slumber. We still have much work to do... My brother". He then sprouts a large black wing and flies into the night, carrying Weiss with him. Crisis Core Ultimania explains that "G" (Genesis) returned from his three-year slumber to protect the Planet.

Development
When Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children began development, the Square Enix staff agreed that one title from Compilation of Final Fantasy VII was not enough to cover the entire world, and so Before Crisis, Dirge of Cerberus and Crisis Core were conceived so as to embrace more aspects. With no official word from Square on the genre of the game, many publications and gamers speculated that it would be an action game similar to the Devil May Cry series. In 2004, however, character designer Tetsuya Nomura denied this, and said that the genre would surprise gamers. Producer Yoshinori Kitase decided the title to be a shooting game based on his love for first-person shooters and the challenge provided for the developers that would eventually improve their skills. He said that role-playing elements were added as the design work on pure action games was less appealing to developers. Monolith Soft assisted on development.

Vincent was chosen as the game's protagonist due to the scope for expanding his backstory, which was left very vague in Final Fantasy VII. The fact that his main weapon was a gun also worked into the team's desire to create a more action-oriented game. Prior to the solidification of the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII, the development team originally considered using other gunfighter characters from the Final Fantasy series, such as Final Fantasy VIIs Barret Wallace, VIIIs Irvine Kinneas or X-2's Yuna, but after the release of Before Crisis and Advent Children, and with the expansion of the Final Fantasy VII mythos, they settled on Vincent.

The main character designer for the game, Tetsuya Nomura, had also worked on both Final Fantasy VII and Advent Children. The Tsviets were designed with the idea of creating a sense of balance for the warriors with which players would already be familiar; primarily Vincent, Cloud Strife and Sephiroth. Nomura initially had doubts when designing Shelke's ordinary clothes for the end of the game, but he felt it was important for her to appear out of uniform so as to indicate she was truly free from Deepground. The character of G was based on the Japanese singer and actor Gackt, who wrote and performed the two theme songs of the game, and voiced G in the Japanese-language version of the game. Hideki Imaizumi, the producer of Crisis Core, liked the mysterious role of G so much, he decided to expand his character in that game. The character of Lucrecia Crescent, who features briefly in an optional quest in the original game, was redesigned so as to give her a similar appearance to her son, Sephiroth, based on portraits from guidebooks and in fan-art. Reeve Tuesti was also redesigned, as he only appears briefly in the original game as himself rather than through Cait Sith.

Dirge of Cerberus was first announced in September 2004, and was scheduled for release in Japan in 2005. The game's official site went online in April 2005. In May, Nomura said that several snippets from the game would be revealed during that year's E3, but no demo was shown at E3, as the staff were still trying to fix some issues with the controls in the game. In September, the beta test program was postponed indefinitely. Listed as 60% complete, the company stated if the beta test started with the game's current state, they would not be able to fully utilize the beta testers.

The North American and European releases of Dirge of Cerberus received a major overhaul as the developers were not completely satisfied with the final Japanese version of the game. They also wanted to make the game more single-player oriented, and as such, they removed Online Multiplayer support, primarily due to the lack of popularity of PlayOnline outside Japan, and lack of PS2 HDD support in the U.S. Missions from the Multiplayer Mode were reworked into unlockable secret missions in the English-language versions of the game, although none of the additional storyline presented in the Japanese Multiplayer Mode featured in the English versions. The Easy Mode, which was originally featured in the Japanese version to assist gamers not overly familiar with shooter games, was also removed. On September 11, 2008, the English-language version was released in Japan as Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII International (ダージュ オブ ケルベロス -ファイナルファンタジーVII- インターナショナル), as part of Square's Ultimate Hits lineup.

Audio
The soundtrack for the game was composed by Masashi Hamauzu. Japanese singer and actor Gackt wrote and performed the two theme songs, "Longing" and "Redemption". For the game's ending theme, "Redemption", the staff originally planned for it to be a ballad, but Gackt decided to make it a rock song instead. Upon hearing Gackt's ideas, the staff were pleased with the direction in which he had gone. The CD soundtrack, Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII Original Soundtrack, was released on February 15, 2006 in Japan. Consisting of two CDs, the soundtrack spanned 53 tracks. A limited edition of the soundtrack includes a "Cerberus Complete Case" deluxe box designed to hold the soundtrack along with the Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII PS2 game and the limited edition of Gackt's single for the game, "Redemption". This single was released on January 25, 2006. A limited edition was also released featuring two "Redemption" video clips; Gackt's promotional music video, and an alternate video using clips from the game.

A supplemental soundtrack was released through the Japanese iTunes service and the Square-Enix Music Download page on August 22, 2006. Titled Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII Multiplayer Mode Original Sound Collections, this album consists of 27 tracks, including several songs from the single player game which were not included in the official soundtrack, as well as all of the original music composed for the multiplayer mode, and two new songs composed by Ryo Yamazaki for the North American release of the game.

Reception
Dirge of Cerberus received mixed reviews from critics. At GameRankings, the game holds a score of 60%. The combined score from Metacritic is 57 out of 100 based on 51 reviews.

GameSpot stated that the game "does have a few interesting and even entertaining moments, but will ultimately leave action game fans and Final Fantasy fans feeling unfulfilled". Despite stating that it is not "the best use of the Final Fantasy VII universe", IGN called it "a decent game with a strong story and occasionally-engaging rifle blasting". 1UP.com criticized the enemies' artificial intelligence and weak scenarios, and labeling the story "boring". Reviewer from Electronic Gaming Monthly Shane Bettenhausen opined that he found all of the titles in the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII to be unappealing. Eurogamer found that Dirge of Cerberus was a "risky gamble" by Square Enix, as their first shooter, and he criticized the fact that most of the main characters in the game were either optional in Final Fantasy VII or had only small roles. GameSpy called its gameplay and plot "interesting", but found other aspects generic. GameTrailers praised the game's storyline, calling it "convoluted, but incredibly impressive in its scope". They also praised the changes Square had made to the Western versions but found the game to be very similar to Devil May Cry, and felt that it didn't make good enough use of Vincent's abilities. While the CGI cutscenes and designs also received positive comments, the lack of variety in enemy types was criticized. G4 game review show, X-Play, responded negatively, citing poor level design, weak gameplay, too many cutscenes, and bad AI.

Sales
Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII shipped 392,000 units in its first week. As of August 2008, 460,000 units were sold in North America and 270,000 units in Europe. Three months later, over 513,000 copies of the game have been sold in Japan alone. In July 2006, Dirge of Cerberus was in Sony's Gold category of top-selling video games (the Gold category includes games which have sold anything from 500,000 units to 1 million).

Mobile phone games
Dirge of Cerberus Lost Episode: Final Fantasy VII (ダージュ オブ ケルベロス ロスト エピソード -ファイナルファンタジーVII-) was co-developed by Square Enix and Ideaworks3D, and published by Square Enix. The game was released on August 22, 2006 in North America and July 26, 2007 in Japan. Initially only available on Amp'd Mobile phones, the game was subsequently made available on Verizon's V Cast network. It was also unveiled as a flagship title for NTT DoCoMo's FOMA 903i handset at the 2006 Tokyo Game Show. The title initially contained only a single player mode, with a multiplayer function introduced at a later date. Lost Episode involves a 'missing' chapter of Dirge of Cerberus taking place between two events of the main game.

IGN called it "passable", arguing that the graphics did not fit the mobile phone, causing a sense of imbalance.

The game's storyline will be recreated in the mobile game Final Fantasy VII: Ever Crisis.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII


text:
Talk:Soulseek

Search and one to one
Added: Let me know if it's ok with you all (some of it might need rephrasing as English is not my 1st language). Keria 23:43, 13 November 2007 (UTC)
 * Searches include folder names and files paths which allows, to a certain degree, for searches by music genres
 * One to one system looked all negative. I don't think that reflects fairely the discussions on the forums as one of the appeal of this system is to make other users more available for communication.

No third party sources, still
You know, it actually makes me curious as to how notable this software really is.--h i s  s p a c e   r e s e a r c h 21:42, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

 * There are a couple of trivial reviews like  . But notable or not, you can certainly tell that it's popular by the number of editors to the article, or the number of different client programs that have been developed exclusively for this network. -- intgr [talk] 02:04, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

"how notable this software really is".. there is no money to be made on SLSK, so it doesn't ganer commercial interest. Hence the difficulty of finding sources. We know how notable if it sfrom the many users on it every day, even (and especially) for esoteric interests cckkab (talk) 14:07, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

clients
Since this article is largely, and I think most importantly, about the network, it may be worth making a section or even a separate article about the clients. At the moment, information about the official client is kind of spread throughout, and is separate from information about unofficial clients. (By the way, Nicotine+ is also available for MS Windows.) For example, there are separate eDonkey2000 articles for the client and the network (although they do still duplicate some information between them). Jwmurphy (talk) 04:30, 30 December 2009 (UTC)

 * No, I don't the network(s) and clients need separate articles. First it is difficult enough keeping the present article up to date and accurate. Second the SS networks (156 and 157) are highly integrated into the networks (QT, 156 and 157), unlike eDonkey and eMule. cckkab ( cckkab ) 19:53, 13 August 2011 (UTC)

title: Talk:Soulseek


text: User talk:204.186.115.14

title: User talk:204.186.115.14


text:
Jane Kenyon

Jane Kenyon (May 23, 1947 – April 22, 1995) was an American poet and translator. Her work is often characterized as simple, spare, and emotionally resonant. Kenyon was the second wife of poet, editor, and critic Donald Hall who made her the subject of many of his poems.

Life
Kenyon was born in 1947 in Ann Arbor, Michigan, to Ruele and Pauline, she grew up in the Midwest. She earned a B.A. from the University of Michigan in 1970 and an M.A. in 1972. She won a Hopwood Award at Michigan. As a university student Kenyon met poet Donald Hall; though he was some nineteen years her senior, she married him in 1972, and they moved to his ancestral home in Wilmot, New Hampshire. Kenyon was New Hampshire's poet laureate when she died on April 22, 1995, from leukemia.

Career
Four collections of Kenyon's poems were published during her lifetime: From Room to Room (1978), The Boat of Quiet Hours (1986), Let Evening Come (1990) and Constance (1993); apart from the former being published through Alice James Books, all of her writing was released through Graywolf Press. She spent some years translating the poems of Anna Akhmatova from Russian into English, and she championed translation as an important art that every poet should try.

Kenyon's poems are filled with rural images: light streaming through a hayloft, shorn winter fields. She wrote frequently about wrestling with depression, which plagued her throughout her adult life. Kenyon's poem "Having it out with Melancholy" describes this struggle and the brief moments of happiness she felt when taking an MAOI, Nardil. However, two visits to India in the early 1990s led to a crisis of faith, as Hall (in introductions to her books and in his own memoirs), Alice Mattison, and her biographer John Timmerman have described.

Kenyon was also a contributor to Columbia: A Journal of Literature and Art.

Prior to her death, she was editing the collection Otherwise: New and Selected Poems. Kenyon's papers, including manuscripts, personal journals, and notebooks are held at the University of New Hampshire Library Special Collections and Archives.

In popular culture
"Let Evening Come" was featured in the 2005 film In Her Shoes, in a scene where the character played by Cameron Diaz reads the poem (as well as "One Art" by Elizabeth Bishop) to a blind nursing home resident.

"Having it out with Melancholy" has been read by Amanda Palmer on Brain Pickings.

Awards

 * 1994 PEN/Voelcker Award for Poetry

title: Jane Kenyon