text:
User talk:Iain Bell

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-- utcursch | talk

Hello there.
Nice to see someone else contributing to railroad articles. I assume you are the same user who was hitherto editing anonymously? Welcome in any case, and hope you enjoy it here! —Morven 12:01, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

Thank you!
-- DP 67  (talk/contribs) 10:08, 22 December 2007 (UTC)

List of LNER A1/A3 class locomotives
I see you are linking the names of the locos to the racehorses they are named after. Flying Scotsman is currently linked to that loco' article. Mjroots (talk) 22:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)
 * I have changed it, so that the '4472' and '60103' link to LNER Class A3 4472 Flying Scotsman, and Flying Scotsman links to Flying Scotsman (train), which is after all, what the loco was named after. Iain Bell (talk) 10:14, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Hi, I see you undid my addition. The title of the article is List on LNER A1/A3 class locomotives. As such, it should cover all A1/A3 locomotives, or be retitled! Mjroots (talk) 22:25, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
 * If the article name was just A1, then I would agree with you. But as it is A1/A3 it implies that it is only the LNER Class A1/A3 locomotives. Perhaps a "for..." link at the top for the LNER Thompson Class A1/1 and the LNER Peppercorn Class A1 would be an idea for those unfamiliar with the LNER. By the way, Tornado is already on the Peppercorn A1 page, at the bottom of the list. Iain Bell (talk) 22:39, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Iain, there is a dispute at LNER Peppercorn Class A1 over the structure of the article. I have made extensive comment at talk:LNER Peppercorn Class A1 relating to this. It is my view namely that Tornado should be considered separately from the original 49 engines. User:Biscuittin is in general agreement with me, but would appreciate it if you would read all the arguments from both sides and then add your input. One editor in particular is refusing all compromise and insists on owning the article and listing the replica with the original 49 engines. I assume that since you have Locomotives at the Grouping by H.C. Casserley, you understand the importance of having accurate stock lists, i.e. the engines as owned by the railway companies. Thanks for your help. Tony May (talk) 15:17, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

NP Edits
Howdy! Please stop moving the NP locomotive roster lists from the Northern Pacific Railway to a separate article. It was not my intention to set it up as a stand-alone article and I found its removal both counter-productive and discouraging. After a brief survey of North American railroad pages on Wikipedia there seems to be plenty of precedence for maintaining a roster summary on the page of the specific road itself. I listed several in my most recent update, I am sure there are more. The ATSF seems to be the most extreme example -- if a roster and painting summary is available, NP steam and diesel rosters are small potatoes. JP3. (Small NP credential: past editor NPRHA's Mainstreeter.) Qy0f (talk) 09:05, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Oxford Wikimania 2010 and Wikimedia UK v2.0 Notice
Hi,

As a regularly contributing UK Wikipedian, we were wondering if you wanted to contribute to the Oxford bid to host the 2010 Wikimania conference. Please see here for details of how to get involved, we need all the help we can get if we are to put in a compelling bid.

We are also in the process of forming a new UK Wikimedia chapter to replace the soon to be folded old one. If you are interested in helping shape our plans, showing your support or becoming a future member or board member, please head over to the Wikimedia UK v2.0 page and let us know. We plan on holding an election in the next month to find the initial board, who will oversee the process of founding the company and accepting membership applications. They will then call an AGM to formally elect a new board who after obtaining charitable status will start the fund raising, promotion and active support for the UK Wikimedian community for which the chapter is being founded.

You may also wish to attend the next London meet-up at which both of these issues will be discussed. If you can't attend this meetup, you may want to watch Meetup, for updates on future meets.

We look forward to hearing from you soon, and we send our apologies for this automated intrusion onto your talk page!

Addbot (talk) 20:58, 30 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for your help
Re: the LT&SR locomotives. Tony May (talk) 23:47, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

LMS - W. V. Wood, Lord Stamp, Presidents, Chief Executives and Chairmen!
Hi Iain, just a quick note to say I have re-edited the notable people section of the LMS article to remove the bracketed "Chairman and Chief Executive" text after the title for the section on Presidents. I have done this because I can find no source which actually refers to the President as the Chief Executive, but rather the President of the Executive. The source I am using (Whitehouse and St John Thomas, 2002) only indicates that the role of President was analagous to that of a modern day Chief Executive, so I included that in the text further up the article to provide a comparitor for the lay-reader. Also, according to my source, W. V. Wood was never actually Chairman of the LMS: as far as I can tell, that post remained vacant after Lord Stamp's death, so while Stamp was President (from 1 Jan 1926) and Chairman (from 1927), holding both offices concurrently, Wood was only ever the former. Of course if you have a source that gives different info, feel free to revert my edit. I have clarified slightly by adding Stamp to the Chairman section, dated 1927 to 1941. :o) ColourSarge (talk) 15:13, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

K&ESR
Re the 0-5-0, nice catch! Presumably a bigger variant of the 0-3-0! Mjroots (talk) 12:17, 15 December 2008 (UTC)

CR NSU page
Thanks for the clean up of the page - it is looking a lot better.

I have removed the ref to the "U" series you added in. I cannot find anything to support the SULZER L series having a "U" variation. THere was the "L" (inline) either as a single bank or two parralel banks with a common output shaft, and the "V" series - common crank.

If there was a "U" series would be very interested in it. Sulzer55 (talk) 05:47, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

 * See U engine article. Iain Bell (talk) 16:22, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks Ian - this page appears to describe "U" as a generic classification, rather than something specific to the Sulzer Traction Engines. "U" was not, as best as I can find, used to describe any of the Sulzer variants Sulzer55 (talk) 00:51, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

SD40-2F
Iain, was the EMD SD40-2F a London only model? Jeff. Wuhwuzdat (talk) 13:45, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Yes - 25 “Red Barns” for CP (c/n A4806–A4830) Iain Bell (talk) 13:58, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

General Motors Diesel Division
Just to let you know there is a lot of confusing information on the General Motors Diesel Division page. GMDD was the Canadian operation of GM, building military vehicles, buses, and locomotives, The US operations were GMC for buses, and EMD for railway locomotives. The page includes details on vehicles not built by GMDD and therefore is inaccurate. GMDD was based in London, Ontario, with a plant later built in St.Eustache, Quebec to satisfy the 'buy Quebec' rule for buses in Quebec. Jsp3970 (talk) 11:45, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

Locomotives of the London, Midland and Scottish Railway
Thanks for adding the rest of the NSR fleet. I was just settling down to do it myself and found to my delight that you'd beaten me to it. NtheP (talk) 10:49, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

 * No problem. I did wait 3 hours before I started — having been on the receiving end of an edit conflict, I know infuriating it can be at the end of a long edit. Iain Bell (talk) 11:05, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

 * I know what you mean. :-) NtheP (talk) 11:27, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

LNWR 2-2-2 3020 Cornwall
Thanks for adding the Cornwall image File:HLB Lok 2.jpg. It has made the article look a lot better. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:22, 20 May 2009 (UTC)
 * I found the image on commons with an incorrect description and in the “unidentified locomotives” category. So it’s more to luck than anything that the image and the article were linked. I haven’t a clue how the image ended up in a German archive. Iain Bell (talk) 14:29, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

SECR K and SR K1 classes, SECR N1 class, SR U class, SR U1 class and SR W class boilers.
Hello, Iain. I've noticed you have Haresnape's book on Maunsell locomotives (I borrowed it a while back, but its been returned to the owner, and I didn't write any page reference numbers down, more fool me!), is it possible for you to clear up the air of mystery that surrounds the manufacture of the boilers used on the above locomotives? I believe the N1 and W class used the remaining N class boilers at Woolwich, so they could have been anything from NBL, Stephenson and the other manufacturer (can't remember it at this time). What I really want to know is where were the boilers used on the U, U1 and K/K1 classes manufactured? This would help clear up a bit of a mystery on these articles, as it has been assumed that all boilers were sub-contracted out to NBL. Any help (and reference page numbers) would be gratefully received. Regards, --Bulleid Pacific (talk) 08:29, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

FM OP800
Iain, I have reverted your category changes to this locomotive article, as the equipment diagram here (also referenced in the article) clearly shows the driving wheels to be on the rear truck. Wuhwuzdat (talk) 14:32, 18 June 2009 (UTC)

Southern Railroad
Thanks for fixing names at National Register of Historic Places listings in Blount County, Tennessee. However, please note that this is a list of places under their official names as they're listed on the National Register of Historic Places. If you want to write an article about either of the properties designated as "Southern Railroad Bridge" or "Southern Railroad Freight Depot", please do so and we'll pipe the link, but the official NRHP name remains "Railroad". If you think it's a major problem, you could always contact the Register people to try to get it changed. Don't think that I'm telling you this to get rid of you — the NRHP wikiproject has reported a large number of errors to the Register people and seen them fixed. Nyttend (talk) 13:59, 23 June 2009 (UTC)

Narrow gauge railroads in the United States
Thank you for the very nicely done improvements to this article. Thewellman (talk) 19:21, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

 * No problem. As I have managed to borrow a suitable reference book, I’ll see if I can expand the list. Iain Bell (talk) 20:57, 17 July 2009 (UTC)

Hi
Just in case you wondered what was going on - WP:OVERCAT - and including mother with child cats at WA steam locos - there are also some very weird bits of misinformation creeping in to some of the arts - trust my edits look ok - please let me know if I have done something that might look odd - cheers SatuSuro 01:29, 6 January 2010 (UTC) The more I look at some stuff - I think some of the mother cats are a bit askew in australian railway categories - but will wait till i here from you first to elaborate on that SatuSuro 02:03, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I took the liberty and modified Category:Western Australian steam locomotives, making it a child of Category:Western Australian locomotives, and removing it from Category:Rail transport in Western Australia. I also added a Commons category. Otherwise everything looks fine. Iain Bell (talk) 12:50, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

OK I think I am having a serious think about defunct, disused and closed in relation to railway lines and railway stations for the whole of WP - any thoughts on that one? If there is one standard - the actual article is defunct - do you think that is the best? (I will have to change a lot of the ones i created in australia) Some idea of my way of thinking is at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Good_Olfactory#Another_pedant_from_west_of_your_location SatuSuro 12:56, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I prefer defunct, as it has the broadest scope. It can cover stations closed to passengers where the line is still open for freight/goods; and lines that have been embargoed because the company wants to abandon it, but doesn't want to go through the formal close process (see Weymouth Quay railway station). Iain Bell (talk) 13:31, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you very much for that - if you and GO both say that - then I shall start a process of changing applying at CFD the cats that I have created - and others that dont conform - within the next week or so - I think the Disused bothers me so much I might even start before then :) SatuSuro 14:04, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your help in cleaning the cats up as well - cheers SatuSuro 14:17, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * One of my big gripes across a whole lot of projects is the constant doubling up of mother and child cats - at South Australian locomotives - the cat Locos by railway and  Locos of OZ - surely that is a case where the mother and child are being doubled up? SatuSuro 14:24, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * The child categories of Category:Locomotives of Australia are being used as both Locomotives by Railway and Locomotives by State, with one being explicit, and the other implicit. The trouble is that for SA and VIC the former is explicit; and for the NSW, QLD, TAS and WA it is the latter which is explicit. Ideally, they should all be one or the other, not a mixture. There might be enough suppor to have cats for both, e.g. NSWGR locomotives and Locomotives of New South Wales. Which brings me to another point – if the category is by state then should it be Locomotives of , rather than  ian locomotives? Iain Bell (talk) 14:37, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * You may be interested in my rather poorly expressed ideas at:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2010_January_6#Category:Western_Australian_locomotives - I am getting embarrassed at the way I expressed myself there - this does just touch what you have mentionedSatuSuro 14:50, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

 * See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category_talk:Locomotives_by_railway for the standard practice SatuSuro 14:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Similarly at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans-Australian_Railway to me listing both the state and lines cats is another mother-child double up - what do you think? SatuSuro 14:28, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * Well as the article is in Category:Railway lines in Western Australia, then it should NOT be in Category:Rail transport in Western Australia as well, as the former is already a child of the latter. And ditto for South Australia. Iain Bell (talk) 14:43, 6 January 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree totally - thank you so much for letting me sound this out - having had the conversation I will feel much more on safe ground pulling out many mothers from some very odd overcategorised items - SatuSuro 14:46, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

 * Apologies for spring all this on to you - the server lag is so bad I am getting off - will check here again tommorow - cheers SatuSuro 15:04, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Goodbye
As it has become painfully obvious, my contributions are no longer welcome or needed here. In light of this situation, I am leaving this screwed up bureaucracy for the conceivable future. Good luck, my friend and keep fighting the good fight. ILLEGITIMUS NON CARBORUNDUM Wuh  Wuz  Dat  02:41, 18 January 2010 (UTC)

SW900RS model correction needed
Hi. I have been researching the British Columbia Electric Railway (BCER) / BC Hydro (BCH), now Southern Railway of BC (SRY). I have dug deep into its diesel motive power and have learned that all 12 of the EMD / GMD SW-type switchers they purchased are model SW900, not SW900RS, and that, in fact, there was never a SW900RS model produced by EMD / GMD. My sources for this info are Doug Cummings, a former BCER/BCH employee and retired locomotive broker, and EMD itself. I received an official corporate response recently, from two employees in their Service Parts Engineering Group, Jim Rusin and Yuk Mui.

The main SW900 article is correct, because it does not mention an RS designation anywhere and it also correctly lists the info for BCER. However, a page linked to from that page, List of GMD Locomotives does have an RS category, and I was told that you were the editor that added the SW900RS entry.

I am happy to share via email the messages from the sources I listed above. Thanks. — Kent Sullivan (talk) 01:08, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

 * The source would have been The Canadian Trackside Guide (1987 and 1990 editions). It might be that the editors of that publication are incorrect, as Pinkepank (1973) The Second Diesel Soptter’s Guide doesn’t mention the SW900RS at all. Feel free to merge the SW900RS model in the table into the SW900. — Iain Bell (talk) 13:20, 22 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Thanks. I am in touch with the authors of CTG as well and gave them the same research. I changed the table just now to remove SW900RS and increase the total of SW900 to 97. I also changed the date of the final production to 1969. — Kent Sullivan (talk) 06:37, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Tank engines
Hi Iain, I notice you have edited Exe locomotive and other loco pages to change the wikilink to 2-6-2T to 2-6-2T, which is merely a redirtect to the original link. This seems inefficient and counter to Wikipedia guidelines (which suggest avoiding redirects where possible)- so perhaps you can explain the reason for doing this? Regards, Lynbarn (talk) 10:59, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
 * While it (and the other tank engine wheel arrangements) is (are) at present a redirect, someone may decide to create it (them) in the future. The 4-4-2T and 4-6-4T are the best examples, as they have little in common with their tender counterparts. Secondly: another editor has started creating categories for the tank engines, so while I’m amending one, I may as well amend the other. — Iain Bell (talk) 11:07, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

 * Screw the "Wikipedia guidelines", they're wrong (that's if they even exist).
 * Redirects are useful. One of the places they're particularly useful is in a situation like this, where we can hide the current redirect from 2-6-2T to 2-6-2. This allows us to write a vast number of articles as if 2-6-2T was already a separate article (which it does indeed warrant). Then when we get round to creating it in the future, we're already linked. In the meantime, redirects handle the linkage to the best article we can currently offer. Even better than this, it's quite likely that an article on 2-6-2 will already / soon will have a section within it on the tank variant, and we can make the redirect point to that section within the article, for very little new effort at all.
 * What would you suggest instead? Remove all the redirs to 2-6-2T, delete the redirect to save precious bytes? Then in a year or two, when we have even more articles on 2-6-2Ts which are poorly linked to 2-6-2, some poor fool could then spend ages going back and fixing them up all over again - rather than avoiding the whole lot by some pro-active thought like this up front. Is there a sudden crisis of server capacity? Have we run out of space for Pokemon and X factor applicants?
 * What I really love about WP is wasting a whole evening on an edit that really shouldn't have been necessary in the first place, then to be told that it's "counter to Wikipedia guidelines" by someone who doesn't even understand MediaWiki or what a redirect is for. Thanks a bunch. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:49, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

 * That's a trifle harsh, Andy! I was only asking Iain why he was doing this! I agree that redirects are useful - I have used them myself, and if a future 2-6-2T article is intended, or 2-6-2T is a valid Whyte notation, then I can see the reason for it. It isn't as if I've be reversing any of the edits that are putting these redirects in place. If it is a good idea, then I'll support it - I just wanted to know, that's all! I might even help with some of the changes, but please, less angst! Your comment: someone who doesn't even understand MediaWiki or what a redirect is for wasn't really called for - especially in a third party's talk space. What happened to assume good faith? Regards, Lynbarn (talk) 12:10, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Harsh maybe, but I don't like my effort being dismissed as less important than a few processor cycles. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:10, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

List of shipwrecks in 1947
Hi, do you have a nationality for Belpamela? If so, would you add the relevant flag? Mjroots (talk) 18:44, 28 April 2011 (UTC)
 * I didn't at the time of my edit, but in wandering around uboat.net, I found a photograph of the Belpamela on the page of the sister-ship MV Belmoira. Both were Norwegian. — Iain Bell (talk) 10:06, 1 May 2011 (UTC)

NMBS/SNCB class 40
Thankyou for the message about the Palestine Railways H class's 70 sister locomotives on NMBS/SNCB. As you have the published source about them, do you fancy writing a SNCB Class 40 or NMBS Class 40 article? As the Belgian and Palestinian Baldwins were consecutive in the War Department number series, 810–870 and 871–920, it would be nice to cover both classes and interlink the aricles. Motacilla (talk) 23:39, 27 May 2011 (UTC)
 * I really don't have much more to add. The only bits in that source (about half a page, incidentally) that I left out was the identity of two early casulaties – one that didn't make it to the 5-digit renumbering, and one that was in the Russian zone of occupation at the end of WW2 and not repatriated. — Iain Bell (talk) 13:24, 30 May 2011 (UTC)

Sharp, Stewart & Co.
Hi, regarding edits such as - it's not necessary, see WP:NOTBROKEN. The only necessary changes following a page move are to the redirects, which have all been done. So long as the redirects are fixed, links within article pages should be left alone.

Also please note that is incorrect, because Sharp, Roberts and Company isn't "a region, state, principate's holding, city, city-state or such" - the previous template  (which is an alias for ) was correct. -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:53, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * I just was trying to clear up after the move. As the the Redirect template, there are so many of them, it's hard to know which one to use. — Iain Bell (talk) 16:16, 10 July 2011 (UTC)
 * Sometimes linking an article to a redirect is intentional. Where the article that you want to link to has redirects from former or alternative names, it's generally best to use whichever redirect most closely matches the company name given in your source text. So, if I were writing about a particular class of locomotives, and my source book stated that they were "built by Sharp Roberts & Co.", I would link to.
 * There are two lists of redirect templates, but I don't think that either of them list every R template. There is Template:R template index, which lists the main ones (unfortunately omitting ), and groups them into categories with a short summary of when its use is appropriate. By contrast, Template messages/Redirect pages lists the most, but is sorted alphabetically (not terribly intuitive), and its explanations are essentially the same as the template text. -- Red rose64 (talk) 16:40, 10 July 2011 (UTC)

DYK for SR Battle of Britain class 21C151 Winston Churchill
— HJ Mitchell |  Penny for your thoughts?   08:03, 12 July 2011 (UTC)

Talkback
-- Red rose64 (talk) 15:29, 7 August 2011 (UTC)

Huh?
Since when does anyone in Australia use Cape gauge or does the tasmanian engines of ages ago belong to metric specifications? Please show some trains project decision that I have obviously missed - Australian usage has always used the term 'narrow gauge'' and never 'cape gauge' - cheers SatuSuro 10:32, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * [edit comflict] The category Category:Cape gauge railway locomotives is relatively new, having only been created in the last couple of days (and not by me). Since the creator only populated with 3-foot-6-inch gauge South African locomotives, I just added a few more locomotives of the same gauge of different countries. If you think the category would be better if renamed something like Category:3ft 6in gauge locomotives then please feel free to take it to WP:CFD. — Iain Bell (talk) 10:50, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * - Cape gauge is a problem - not doing anything for the moment - but hmmm, grrrr, etc etc SatuSuro 13:31, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * - Actually Cape gauge railways has the qualifier This is a category for all railways of Cape gauge (3' 6" / 1,067 mm) in southern Africa - it is not saying Australia etc. SatuSuro 13:35, 17 August 2011 (UTC)

 * So what happens to the category http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Narrow_gauge_railways_by_country ? SatuSuro 10:40, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * ‘Narrow gauge’ is relative. In South Africa and Japan, 1067 mm is the standard; in India 1000 mm is “medium gauge” (there being 762 mm and 610 mm gauges). There is also a Category:Track gauge by size by the way. — Iain Bell (talk) 10:50, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I take your point on that - I am wondering whether an inter-country comparison article is required to explain it all away :( 13:31, 17 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Stumbled across this - I'd argue that 'Narrow gauge' isn't relative at all. Standard gauge is 4' 8.5"; anything less is 'narrow gauge', anything more is 'broad gauge', Q.E.D. - The Bushranger One ping only 17:20, 8 November 2011 (UTC)

Whyte links
Hi - is there any reason why you're replaced a number of whyte templates with direct links to the wheel arrangements? The advantage of using the template is that it produces two links, one to the wheel arrangement and one to indicate the meening of the suffix (e.g. ). Replacing this with 0-4-2ST simply gives a redirect to the first link.—An  optimist  on the run! 11:40, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
 * I feel that the template has several problems:
 * It takes longer to type  than to type  ;
 * It puts a space between the wheel arrangement and the tank code; something I have never seen in print and could be construed as original research.
 * It dates from before the creation of the tank engine redirects ( and others). Once the tank engine wheel arrangements are forked out of the tender locomotive articles, Template:Whyte becomes either broken, a maintenance nightmare, or both.
 * Some of the wheel arrangement articles have a tank engine sections, e.g. 4-6-2T, and the redirect is to that section.

 * Yes I know the second point can be fixed, but then hint that there are two different links is lost. Overall I can't see the need for the template and I was thinking of taking it to WP:TFD.
 * Apologies for late reply, been AFK for a few days. — Iain Bell (talk) 10:11, 25 August 2011 (UTC)

 * To reply to your comments:
 * The length of code is more or less irrelevant - the text should be designed for readers, not editors.
 * As you acknowledge, the second point can be fixed, though the space was discussed at the time (see Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Trains/Archive: 2008, 2). Possibly it's non-standard, but I don't see how it's OR.
 * The template can be modified to link to (e.g.) 0-6-0T when and if the content is forked. I can make changes so that in the meantime, it links to the anchor.
 * The template had other advantages, for example, links directly to the relevant article rather than the dab page 4-4-2. Currently a lot of articles that point here, that need disambiguating. Also as I stated above, it also provides a link for what the suffix means. Feel free to nominate it for TfD if you like, but IMO it has more benefits than otherwise, and I will replace it in articles where I feel it necessary.—An   optimist  on the run! 07:39, 28 August 2011 (UTC)

 * Follow-up - I've recoded the template so that (for example) now links directly to 4-6-2T, so that future content splitting will not cause problems.—An   optimist  on the run! 09:19, 29 August 2011 (UTC)

Boards of Directors
Hi, re the Boards of Directors that you have been adding to railway company articles - could you please state their period of office, since some of these companies existed for several decades, and it's unlikely that any one individual served continuously. Also please give the source of your information per WP:V. Thanks. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:09, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
 * I have added a source, but its hard to add dates unless you have access to a full set of Bradshaw’s, something that even the British Library doesn’t have (according to their online catalogue). — Iain Bell (talk) 19:29, 2 September 2011 (UTC)
 * Surely there's something in books dealing with the specific railways. For example, in George Dow's trilogy on the MS&LR/GCR, he lists the Directors and their periods of office in the appendices at the back of each volume, and in the main text gives the dates of election and reason for leaving office. If all you have is the 1905 list, it would be best to explicitly state in the articles that these were the directors in 1905, so as not to give the impression that they were also directors in, say, 1855. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:52, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

hlist in navboxes
Hi, re to Template:British Rail Locomotives - I've. You had left some pairs in place, and had omitted to convert the below section. -- Red rose64 (talk) 11:46, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Thanks for that. Missing the was my error; not doing the below section was intentional, as during a conversion of another Navbox that I did, the preview showed it to have gone pear-shaped, so I reverted that change, and left that section as-is since then. — Iain Bell (talk) 12:07, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, then you probably didn't spot that the below ignores listclass - when there's a bulleted list in below, you need to add hlist -- Red rose64 (talk) 15:34, 25 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I should have guessed that hlist would have solved it. Again, thank you. — Iain Bell (talk) 19:21, 25 November 2011 (UTC)

Rhodesian locomotives
Great to see someone is making a start on the RR locomotives! André Kritzinger 18:13, 23 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Thank you. Unfortunately, I don't have a lot of information on Rhodesian locomotives — so once I have translated the 20th class article from de.WP, I'll be down to creating stubs. Regards — Iain Bell (talk) 12:25, 24 September 2012 (UTC)
 * PS — Thanks for all the hard work you have done on South African locomotives.

R&W Hawthorn
Hi, re : the merger of R. & W. Hawthorn with A. Leslie & Co. was in 1884; although I don't have the actual date. The source that I used when I added the building information definitely shows "R. & W. Hawthorn & Co." It's possible that the merger occurred before the first loco was delivered, but I prefer to go with what is actually stated by the source and not to adjust company names. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:31, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I did have second thoughts about making the change – but Nock states “Hawthorn, Leslie & Co.” If your source differs, we may have to put a ‘sources differ’ note on that page. Incidentally, the R and W Hawthorn page states the merger was in 1880; the Hawthorn Leslie and Company page states 1886. The former is unreferenced, the latter is referenced by a dead link. I think more research (and referencing) is required; so feel free to revert. Regards, Iain Bell (talk) 21:21, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I should have given my source for the 1884 amalgamation: it's
 * It's certain that the amalgamation had happened by 30 July 1889 - see (top of first column) and  (bottom of first column).
 * Anyway, I do have Nock (two copies: one is the 1954 original (in hardback), the other is the 1974 paperback reprint), and he does state "Hawthorn, Leslie & Co.", but that is only one of four books which I have checked that gives the post-amalgamation name. One source, so far not mentioned but somewhat older than the others, is
 * which states "R. and W. Hawthorn", and so by omitting any mention of Leslie, this agrees with Baxter and with Boddy et al. Could it be that the amalgamation occurred whilst Hawthorns were building these locos, with the result that some were delivered under one builder's name, the rest under the other? -- Red rose64 (talk) 22:23, 2 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It’s quite possible. I do have a note of two locomotives supplied by R&W Hawthorn to Alexandra (Newport & South Wales) Docks & Railway in February and March 1884 (Works nos. 1976 and 1977; A(N&SW)D&R 0-6-0ST nos. 13 and 12). Not sure where I made a note from, but if you have the RCTS books on GWR locos, it should be in one of them. Regards, Iain Bell (talk) 09:30, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * AD nos. 12 & 13 (GWR 664/5) were purchased new from R. & W. Hawthorn & Co. (Nos. 1977/6) in 1884 ; AD nos. 16 & 17 were from Hawthorn, Leslie & Co. (Nos. 2146/7) in 1889 . No months are given for any of these. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:21, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * It’s quite possible. I do have a note of two locomotives supplied by R&W Hawthorn to Alexandra (Newport & South Wales) Docks & Railway in February and March 1884 (Works nos. 1976 and 1977; A(N&SW)D&R 0-6-0ST nos. 13 and 12). Not sure where I made a note from, but if you have the RCTS books on GWR locos, it should be in one of them. Regards, Iain Bell (talk) 09:30, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * AD nos. 12 & 13 (GWR 664/5) were purchased new from R. & W. Hawthorn & Co. (Nos. 1977/6) in 1884 ; AD nos. 16 & 17 were from Hawthorn, Leslie & Co. (Nos. 2146/7) in 1889 . No months are given for any of these. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:21, 3 December 2012 (UTC)
 * AD nos. 12 & 13 (GWR 664/5) were purchased new from R. & W. Hawthorn & Co. (Nos. 1977/6) in 1884 ; AD nos. 16 & 17 were from Hawthorn, Leslie & Co. (Nos. 2146/7) in 1889 . No months are given for any of these. -- Red rose64 (talk) 17:21, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

LMS Stanier Class 5 4-6-0 44767 / LMS Stanier Class 5 4-6-0 4806
Does one of these need a rename, and if so, which one is it? I'm assuming the first as "LMS 4767", but is there any clear guidance around on this, and does it depend on build dates? I can see some argument to listing all of them, BR-built too, under the consistent BR numbers. Andy Dingley (talk) 12:50, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * My preferred name is the first identity:– 4806 was built at Derby in July 1944, therefore LMS number is appropriate. Nº 4767 was built at Crewe in December 1947; I would like to see it moved, but others might argue that its LMS service was insignificant, and the BR number better known (WP:COMMONNAME). To which I would argue that BR Stanier Class 5 4-6-0 44767 would be a better name, as the present one is a mongrel. — Iain Bell (talk) 13:08, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I think "service" is indeed irrelevant. "Did it ever carry the LMS 4-digit number?" should be enough, whether it earned a day's revenue or not. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:58, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

And for that matter, Category talk:Individual locomotives Andy Dingley (talk) 12:54, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Your idea has some merit – I sometimes look at Category:Individual locomotives and wonder which ones have been scrapped. — Iain Bell (talk) 13:08, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I have heard it said that articles about individual preserved locomotives should reflect the present-day identity. That has its merits; but there are some locos which get a fresh repaint every two years, which sometimes goes together with a change of identity. I don't think frequent article moves is a good thing. -- Red rose64 (talk) 13:49, 23 May 2013 (UTC)
 * I agree – continually renaming articles is counter-productive. Better to (1) keep the article under a name consistent with other locomotives (I prefer the first number) and (2) use redirects to catch people looking for other identities. — Iain Bell (talk) 14:05, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for adding images to Steamtown, U.S.A.. --Ishtar456 (talk) 23:33, 26 September 2013 (UTC)

Iain Bell
Do you know the composer Iain Bell ? --Piers Gaveston (talk) 00:20, 1 November 2013 (UTC)
 * No (not me!), and no relation (at least that I know of). I had never heard of him, until you pointed to the article. Thanks and regards, — Iain Bell (talk) 09:39, 1 November 2013 (UTC)

Apparent vandalism
Hello Ian, Re Forty-and-eights. A certain twit User:Cak22 User talk:Cak22 has twice; if not three times, turned the article into a redirect. I only realized this when I checked the revision history after I corrected the redirect. So I felt justified to turn it back to where you had it. Peter Horn User talk 19:07, 13 November 2013 (UTC)
 * I havn’t been that active on WP, so I missed that change; thank you for catching that. I’ve updated the talk page – the projects were classed as Redirects.
 * The Forty-and-eights and Merci Train need some work: the former needs references and both need "Main article" links to each other.
 * Regards, — Iain Bell (talk) 10:01, 14 November 2013 (UTC)

Nasmyth, Gaskell and Company:
Are we going to be given a reference- I can't sleep waiting in anticipation. -- Clem Rutter (talk) 11:56, 25 February 2014 (UTC)
 * Yes, I will be adding references. — Iain Bell (talk) 12:03, 25 February 2014 (UTC)

List of Chemins de Fer de l'État locomotives
Hello, I added two new images of 030 C 815 and 140 C 231. Cheers, Krest12 (talk) 18:44, 16 April 2014 (UTC)

 * Thanks for finding one of 030.C.815. — Iain Bell (talk) 09:58, 17 April 2014 (UTC)

Quote marks
Hi, I just noticed that in, you altered SR V "Schools" class (with straight quotes) to SR V “Schools” class (with curly quotes). Please don't do that, per MOS:QUOTEMARKS. -- Red rose64 (talk) 18:57, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Template:Convert/TonCwt to t
Hi, Please see Template talk:Convert/TonCwt to t Peter Horn User talk 20:07, 20 May 2014 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 26
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ISBN templates
Hello. I noticed you had created a template Template:Rowledge-Engines of the LMS - I'm not sure on the usage of this - if this is a standard method could you add a note to ISBN on the creation of these things. Not sure if this is the same as Template:Cite isbn which alos creates a cire book link. Thanks.
 * It's a quick, and consistent way to add references to relevant articles. See the explanation at the top of Category:Rail transport book citation templates — Iain Bell (talk) 13:34, 5 June 2014 (UTC)

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A kitten for you!
Thank you for the Sri Lanka rail navigation box !

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Template:0-8047-1731-1
If it's all right by you I was going to merge with ; per  they appear to be the same book, with the same publication year and the same number of pages. Best, Mackensen (talk) 04:36, 13 September 2015 (UTC)
 * The only problem I forsee is needing to accomodate more than one ISBN – the one I created was for the hardback edition on acid-free paper – I don’t know how many other editions have been released and what differentiates them. Regards — Iain Bell (talk) 10:23, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
 * the ISBN that you give in a ref should be that of the edition which you actually consulted. No others are necessary. -- Red rose64 (talk) 20:15, 15 September 2015 (UTC)
 * (Love that there's a template for that) I think so long as the content and page numbers correspond the ISBNs are fungible. Where they potentially aren't I've seen different versions of the template created. Near as I can tell these two are the same for reference purposes. Mackensen (talk) 21:31, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Category:Gas turbine locomotives of France
Category:Gas turbine locomotives of France, which you created, has been nominated for possible deletion, merging, or renaming. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the Categories for discussion page. Thank you. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:00, 27 October 2015 (UTC)

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George Cross
You are commended on your work on the George Cross. You might be surprised that the VC & GC website gives a total of 414 awards. The most recent published reference is the three volume 'VC and GC: a complete history' which was published by the VC & GC Association in 2013. The ISBN for 'One step further: those whose gallantry was rewarded with the George Cross' is for Book A, the first of the nine books covering all GCs at the time. The Medal Yearbook by Token Publishing is an annual with the 2017 edition due out later this month. I question external links on list articles but in this case the Canadian website is defunct and the New Zealand list adds nothing to the table even it had mentioned that the award to Guthrie was the most recent award to a civilian. The GC used to be called the 'civilian VC' but for the UK no civilian has been awarded the GC in 40 years. Anthony Staunton (talk) 14:54, 2 September 2016 (UTC)

Template:1-878887-01-7
Proposed for deletion. A new template with a name that reflect current policy has been created --> — Preceding unsigned comment added by Morphenniel (talk • contribs) 10:33, 6 June 2017 (UTC)
 * And I de-prodded it. See WP:PROD, fifth paragraph: PROD is only applicable to mainspace articles, lists, set indices, disambiguation pages, and files not on Commons. Proposed deletion cannot be used with templates. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 11:04, 6 June 2017 (UTC)

Locomotives_of_the_Southern_Railway
Hi, I saw you added a lot of information to Locomotives_of_the_Southern_Railway back in 2011. Do you happen to know where you got this information from? I'm trying to match up this information with a serialized article in "Locomotive, Railway Carriage and Wagon Review" and finding that some of the information on the page is conflicting or incorrect. (e.g. Eagle- and Falcon-class, the magazine combines and describes as identical apart from driving wheel diameter; and for the listed Gem-class the magazine states wheel configuration 0-6-0 for no. 57-59 as opposed to the 2-4-0 listed on the page). Any light you can shed would be appreciated. —Hawke666 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 20:54, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Hopefully the info came from
 * which is generally reliable, and not from
 * which has a number of problems. Bradley later produced a multi-volume set that was even better than his 1960s pair. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 22:51, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * which has a number of problems. Bradley later produced a multi-volume set that was even better than his 1960s pair. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 22:51, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
 * which has a number of problems. Bradley later produced a multi-volume set that was even better than his 1960s pair. -- Red rose64 🌹 (talk) 22:51, 15 September 2017 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:1-878887-01-7
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MGWR Class D
Hi, just to comment I may add/change some content to the article at some point in the near future and as you have contributed to it in the past you may wish to review or comment on it. See Talk:MGWR_Class_D for further information. Thanks. Djm-leighpark (talk) 11:06, 1 November 2017 (UTC)

Thanks for creating the Category:Midland Great Western Railway locomotives. I have enhanced the MGWR Class 7 article to emphasise the source Shepherd on p123+p131 specifically states R&W Hawthorn, Leith. My sprint on wikipedia trains and MGWR locomotive articles is essentially over but I may do tweaks and may do a little on the Dublin Sligo line at some point.Djm-leighpark (talk) 17:07, 5 November 2017 (UTC)

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Merger of List of Indian locomotives with locomotives of India
Hello Sir, The reason that I created List of Indian locomotives is to make sure that both a list type and descriptive type article exists. I initially started List of Indian locomotives in the locomotive india but it wouldn't fit in. So what should I do ?--Hdmanohar (talk) 05:14, 14 May 2020 (UTC)
 * I tagged it for merge, since it looked like a duplication; but on reflection Locomotives of India is a large article (it's a large subject) and is a bit of mess. You could re-write it, so that is is just an overview article with several “Main article:” links (use ) that point to other (new) articles, such as “List of diesel locomotives of India”, “List of electric locomotives of India”, “List of steam locomotives of India”. As List of Indian locomotives only list diesel locomotives, you could rename it and then move the electric and steam locomotives to articles of their own.
 * Smaller articles are easier to write, reference, and maintain. Just be bold. Hope this helps — Iain Bell (talk) 14:01, 16 May 2020 (UTC)

List of railway stations in Colombia
Hi Iain - I wasn't aware that this article existed until you tagged its talk page with the Colombia WikiProject a few days ago. I've lived in Bogota for over a decade now, and although trains aren't really my thing, I'm familiar enough with the local transport system and the stations, and I'm thinking this list article should be deleted. It basically seems to consist of a list of stations that operated in Bogota and its surroundings 67 years ago (about half of which no longer exist), which is just a duplicate of the list at Bogota Savannah Railway. The remainder of the article is pretty vague, mentioning some other towns and departments (the equivalent of an English county) without being very specific about actual stations.

The article is correct in saying that there are currently no passenger services at all in Colombia, and hence none of these stations are in use for services other than goods and coal transport, save for five stops on the Bogota Northern Line (Ferrocarril del Norte) which are used for a tourist train running at weekends from Bogotá to the salt cathedral at Zipaquirá. So I'm not sure what this list is aiming for... if it's stations currently used for passengers, that's zero... if it's a list of all the station buildings in the country, well, there are/were hundreds of them, not just in Bogota and its surroundings, and most of the buildings still exist. But most of the track throughout the country has been removed, so most of these buildings exist without any rail track near them, and some have been converted into museums, municipal buildings or other uses. So is there any point in listing railway stations that have not functioned as such for decades, and many of which are abandoned and delapidated?

As I said, all the relevant information in this list article is already in either the Bogota Savannah Railway article, or the Rail transport in Colombia article, so I don't see much reason for this separate article to exist. But as I'm not a rail enthusiast, I thought I'd run it by you first and see what you think. The Bogota Savannah article is certainly worth keeping and expanding as a historical article, and three of its lines still have the existing track: the Western, Northern and Northeastern lines, and in fact the first two lines are going to be renovated over the next decade for the planned RegioTram light railways, so they are still very relevant. Richard3120 (talk) 02:36, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

 * I only discovered it while trying to reduce the assessment backlog on WikiProject Trains (it was listed as a stub!). I have no emotional attachment to the article, so feel free to be bold. You could rename it as "List of former railway stations in Colombia" and expand it, or you want to mark it up as a Proposed deletion, I won't mind. – Iain Bell (talk) 11:11, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks – I know there are many other "List of railway stations in xxxx" articles on Wikipedia, but the key is that those are all in countries with operating rail networks and working stations carrying passengers... I'm not convinced of the usefulness of a list of repurposed, abandoned and derelict railway stations, and I can't see where I would find a list of every station that ever existed in Colombia.
 * I guess I do take an interest in the transport network because Bogota is the size of London, but it's the largest city in the whole of the Americas without a metro system, and consequently the traffic problem here is one of the worst in the world, so anything that will improve that can only be a good thing. The main station in Bogota is quite impressive (you can see a picture on the Spanish Wikipedia at ) but sadly almost entirely empty and unused due to the lack of passenger trains, and although when it was built a century ago it was on the edge of the city, today it is very much in the centre and in a part of town which is pretty shabby and noisy, and completely unappealing to tourists and anyone wanting to repurpose the building. Richard3120 (talk) 15:42, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

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Alsace-Lorraine A 3 moved to draftspace
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Dangling ref
Hi Iain, I have been working on fixing dangling references that have no corresponding sources, and it appears you added a ref to Ajax (locomotive) in this edit. Do you know the source? For now, I have hidden the ref. Let me know if you need any assistance if you do know the source! - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 05:17, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Thanks for finding my error – its a pity I didn't notice it back in 2016 when I created the page! – Iain Bell (talk) 20:14, 4 August 2021 (UTC)
 * It's all good, I only noticed because of Category:Harv and Sfn no-target errors, which I am steadily going through. - Aussie Article Writer (talk) 09:08, 5 August 2021 (UTC)

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Request to help add to certain pages
Hi. These following drafts need to be taken care of. I would add info to them myself, but I don’t know these engines that well. I’ve been trying to ask experts like you to try and finish them off. You do not have to edit all of them. Just at least the ones about locos you do know about. Draft:Polson Logging Co. 2 Draft:Dardanelle and Russellville Railroad 8 Draft:Canadian Pacific 1201 Draft:St. Louis, Iron Mountain and Southern Railway 5 Draft:Wilmington and Western 58 Draft:Wilmington and Western 98 Draft:Virginia and Truckee 11 Reno Draft:Virginia and Truckee 12 Genoa Draft:Virginia and Truckee 21 J.W. Bowker 23.169.64.51 (talk) 03:28, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Speedy deletion nomination of Category:Seaboard Air Line Railroad images

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International (GN train)
Hi, in International (GN train) should "Strauss 1988" actually be "Strauss 1998"? DuncanHill (talk) 14:22, 26 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Yes. Thank you for spotting this. I have fixed the six offending calls. — Iain Bell (talk) 08:43, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

 * Many thanks, DuncanHill (talk) 09:14, 29 July 2023 (UTC)

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title: User talk:Iain Bell


text:
User talk:ThomasV

wikisource:User talk:ThomasV

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:ThomasV


text:
Billy Birmingham

Billy Birmingham (born 1953) is an Australian humourist and sometime sports journalist, most noted for his parodies of Australian cricket commentary in recordings under The Twelfth Man name.

Early career
He wrote the pun-laden comedy hit "Australiana", which was made famous by performer Austen Tayshus and reached No. 1, ultimately becoming the most successful single on the Australian charts in 1983.

The Twelfth Man
In 1984 he released his first record as The Twelfth Man, titled "It's Just Not Cricket". This went on to become his most successful series of recordings, with eight albums being released between 1987 and 2006. The premise involved Birmingham impersonating and satirising the Channel Nine cricket commentary team, particularly Richie Benaud, Bill Lawry and Tony Greig.

During the Sydney 2000 Olympics, Birmingham also recorded a series of mock-commentaries on Olympic events as the Wired World of Sports, featuring such characters as the American track-and-field representative "Chuck DeWobblee" ("chucked a wobbly" – meaning to throw a tantrum) and the Ukrainian pole-vaulter "Olga Bedjanodgonnagedova" ("bet you're not gonna get over"), while also releasing the single under the 12th Man name, "Bruce 2000", featuring an impersonation of famed commentator Bruce McAvaney during the Sydney 2000 Olympic Games.

Birmingham has commented on his relationship with Richie Benaud, stating that he was kind when meeting with him, but a problem he had with his albums was the amount of obscenities he used when impersonating him, and that he thought it didn't reflect him personally. He has also stated that his favourite person to impersonate was Richie Benaud, as well as stating that over the years that things associated with the 12th Man have become conflated with Richie Benaud. Specifically, the 12th Man's interpretation of Benaud's Two for twenty two phrase, saying that Benaud never said that—apart from when it was the score.

The Back Page
In 1997, Birmingham joined as a regular guest on the panel discussion show The Back Page, alongside host Mike Gibson. Ironically, Gibson was sent up by Birmingham in 1987 on his Twelfth Man album Wired World of Sports.

Birmingham is famous for being able to find humour amid the hyperbole of world sport. Following Michael Clarke's debut innings of 151 against India in 2004, there was considerable praise for him – including comments that the young man was the new Donald Bradman and that he should captain Australia. Birmingham announced on The Back Page that he was going to nominate Clarke for Australian of the Year: "He's just that good."

A skilled impersonator, Birmingham is also used on the show as a means of interviewing a sporting celebrity who is otherwise unavailable. His impression of Australian rugby union coach Eddie Jones following the decision to award a Super Rugby franchise to Perth was a prime example of this, even to the point that another panelist held Birmingham's left eyebrow in place in order to have him look like the man he was pretending to be. At one point, Birmingham even began an impression of Gibson, which he quickly ceased performing, upon deciding (tongue-in-cheek) that it might endanger his career. He also is well known for spontaneously impersonating Richie Benaud during discussions about cricket, having once said during a debate about Twenty20 cricket, "Why not twenty-two overs for the two sides?" (taking advantage of Benaud's characteristic pronunciation of the letters T and S). In the lead-up to the Melbourne Cup, Birmingham also frequently adopts the distinctive high-pitched voice of a jockey.

Birmingham is also known for his ability to cover up any ignorance he might have of players' names by creating new ones in keeping with the country in question. For example, a discussion about the New Zealand national rugby league team collapsed into laughter when Birmingham praised, among others, the performance of "the centre, Waisiwerina Silitupe" ("Why's he wearing a silly toupee?").

In December 2012, Birmingham quit the show soon after Mike Gibson's departure, with the incumbents on the show being Matt Shirvington and Tony Squires.

Other
Birmingham has also used his impersonation skills on advertisements for KFC, which appeared on Channel Nine's cricket coverage in the summer of 2002/03.

He has also worked on Sydney radio station 2GB 873 alongside Andrew Moore and fellow long-time The Back Page panelist Mike Gibson.

title: Billy Birmingham


text:
Talk:UNIT dating controversy

"Futuristic" technology in The Invasion
Just a note, in "The Invasion" some 'advanced' technology can be seen, suggesting it's the near future. For instance the villain has a videophone in his office, videophones being something "we'll all have in a few years time" for about 50 years now. Also his company has made loads of money developing tiny hand-held pocket radios (can get 'em in Tesco for a pound now, but if Life On Mars is anything to go by not actually around in the 70's), but then he is also in league with the Cybermen so may have been using thier advanced technology. The photographer woman (can't remember her name) wears a dress which to me suggests "70's", but then i wasnt around in the 60's or 70's so i can't say for sure. That and the 60's writers couldn't have possibly predicted 70's fashions anyway. Also the UNIT agents drive Jaguar mk2's, in the 60's these would have been expensive and luxorious, but by the 70's they where old bangers used for getaway cars, which actually makes the secret agents seem "more sinister" to anybody watching the serial now who has seen The Sweeney XD 82.153.230.138 15:18, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

A tax disc?
A tax disc seen on a vehicle has the expiry date of June 30, 1999.

Isn't this only in the novelisation? Timrollpickering 12:32, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Hmm. You know, now that you mention it, my memory of that is a bit hazy. I'll remove it until I can get confirmation one way or another. Unless you have Battlefield on hand to watch... -khaosworks 12:42, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Sorry my copy is many miles from me! Timrollpickering 07:36, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

UNIT website
I won't move this without checking, but is there any sign that this is anything more than publicity and thus really belongs in the (confusingly titled) "Production notes" along with similar stuff? Timrollpickering 23:35, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I put it under Contradictory Clues for want of a better location - tell you what, I'll rename Production notes to Off-screen evidence and chuck it there. --khaosworks 23:55, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

New who

 * "No television story actually featuring UNIT gives a clear date onscreen."

Apart from the new series, that is, which is pretty firmly dated in 2006 ;) Morwen - Talk 08:55, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Erm where does it explicitly say it is 2006? The references seem vague "You've been away a year" and the like. Timrollpickering 10:42, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

 * On-screen evidence: Rose was last seen, according to her missing persons poster, on March 6, 2005. She's been away twelve months, so that's circa March, 2006. Six months later is Boom Town, that brings us to about September 2006. Christmas Invasion still has Big Ben being rebuilt, so that is more plausibly December 2006. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 12:06, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

 * As "thetoymaker" pointed out in the forum at Outpost Gallifrey:

Mickey was very ambiguous saying "THIS year" but I've done a little looking.

''Jackie says her official biography states she's the same age as Cuba Gooding Jnr who was born in 1968. That would make her 39 in 2007.''

(Obviously we are in a paralel universe so there is an argument for their Cuba to be born in a different year.)

And Jackie IS the kind of girl who would say she was 21 if she thought she could get away with it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.110.9.50 (talk) 16:06, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

All this does tie up with 'Rose' set in 2005, 'Aliens of London' in 2006, 'Christmas Invasion' at christmas 2006 and 'School Reunion' 2007.
 * I just copied his/her post because there's no way I could have explained it better. Ravenswood 22:17, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Merger
If you look at the history of the two articles, you'll see that the UNIT dating controversy was originally part of the main UNIT article, but got spun off primarily because it became apparent the scope of it involved such a different subject matter from an article about UNIT - the organisation - itself. A discussion of the dating controversy seemed out of place, especially as it was in itself an evidence gathering exercise. Based on this, of course, I am naturally opposed to a merger. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 10:14, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

 * (I'm copying this over to Talk:United Nations Intelligence Taskforce — any further comments should be directed there.) --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 12:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

Wrong book?
From the article:

''In McIntee's Bullet Time, Sarah comments to the Seventh Doctor about her uncertainty as to when she travelled with him. The Doctor replies that some "time slippage" occurred and that it was his fault, but does not elaborate further.''

I haven't read Bullet Time, but I have read that exchange and it was between SJS and the Eighth Doctor in Inty. Is Miles recapitulating McIntee's idea, or is it a misattribution? --Bth 19:25, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

PS I love that the pedia has an article on this.

 * Thanks for catching that. It's a misattribution, I think (unfortunately I can't confirm it entirely, because I don't have Bullet Time handy, but I do know it appears in Interference. If my memory didn't play me false and it did appear in BT, then McIntee was repeating Miles's idea, BT being released 2 years after Interference. --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 22:49, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

what

I've a copy of Bullet Time, skimmed through:

> p152: SJ joined UNIT staff 1978, worked four years assisting the Doctor.

> p159: Sarah is 48 years old, book takes place in 1997.

There are limited conversations between SJ and the Doctor, at least where SJ knows who he is, and I can't find the "time slippage" bit. Feel free to reference the other two facts, though.

Article title ("Controversy")
In regard to title of this article and of the Doctor Who story title controversy, I really think the word "controversy" is far too fraught with meaning for what is essently a dispute among a fandom. How about we rename it UNIT dating debate? -Jonathan D. Parshall 05:54, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I agree. -- Beardo 00:52, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

 * It depends on whether or not you consider the incredibly charged nature of UNIT chronology conversations, limited as they may be in fandom, to be less deserving of the term "controversy" or not. Is it just a matter of scale? --khaosworks (talk • contribs) 00:57, 11 December 2006 (UTC)

I must add that dating is a bit inappropiate and could be misinterpreted as "Dating" as in to date others.

Perhaps "Inconsistancy" would be a better word because there is no perfect way to resolve the discrepencies. Perhaps a couple of different timelines could be shown side by side. Or perhaps some mention of different ideas people have had. (My favourite is that an older Lethbridge-Stewart became trapped in the past and was retired to a remote location to keep him away from his younger self.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.150.177.249 (talk) 09:58, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Four calendars in The Green Death, plus "I'm from 1980"
Under "Contradictory clues" we find a description of two calendars in the tenth season serial The Green Death, one showing "a leap year when February 29 falls on a Sunday (1976 is the only one in the 1960s-1990s) but another says April." Excuse me? The former can be as described only if the far left hand column is Fridays (the thing can't be seen clearly enough to be actually read), which would be a unique calendar in my 50+ years of life. British writers/Who fans Paul Cornell, Martin Day and Keith Topping, in their book Doctor Who: The Discontinuity Guide (Virgin Books, 1996), flatly state, no ifs ands or buts, that the day in question is a Tuesday, which is exactly how these American eyes see it, and they add the only such "relevant February" is 1972. They mention no other calendar in this story, and I have never noticed one--and mind you, once their book got me looking at the episodes from such a perspective, I found a number of things they missed. So I beg the person(s) responsible for this passage to please defend the Sunday reading of the one and to specify the location of the other. Thank you.

Relevant to the overall article here, Cornell, ''et. al.'s U.N.I.T. dating arguments, putting each story within a few months one way or the other of original transmission, are in general quite persuasive to an open mind, the main exception being their dealing with Sarah Jane's "I'm from 1980," (Pyramids of Mars) versus the Brigadier's 1976 retirement (Mawdryn Undead''), which is in effect to throw up their arms and say, "Hell, we don't know!" This has, however, been explained on a Who site, called "Who's Dr. Who" if memory serves, the specifics of web address as well as the late creator's and current administrator's identities are not easily at hand at the moment (I'll retrieve and post that data here as soon as feasible). But here is the explanation. At the end of Terror of the Zygons, we see the fourth Doctor promise to return Sarah straight to London, but as the next story shows, he doesn't make it. What we don't see, according to this theory, is what happens after that story. He then does get her back, travels alone, then picks her up from 1980, her journalistic career having advanced somewhat in the interim. The next two U.N.I.T. stories, Android Invasion and Seeds of Doom, take place from Sarah's perspective in the recent past while a younger version of her is working in London and she knows it, hence she unhesitatingly enters the TARDIS with the Doctor at the finish of each, in clear opposition to her earlier attitude. Makes a lot of sense, doesn't it? Ted Watson 20:16, 5 March 2007 (UTC) Here's the info on the "1980" explanation: the late Allen Robinson initiated the site and presumably concocted the theory, and Louise Lobinski maintains the pages. The name is indeed "Who's Dr. Who?" and here's a link directly to the specific bit under discussion:. Ted W.

 * It's an interesting theory, and it sounds like it works pretty well. As fan speculation, though, we can't include it on the page. --Brian Olsen 05:13, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Good point. I got myself somewhat out of proper discussion there, initially from trying to justify the Discontinuity Guide as a valid information source to challenge the Green Death/calendars passage. My apologies. Now if someone could tell me if that should be rewritten. Please. Ted Watson 21:33, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

 * To be honest, I'm not too clear on the whole Green Death calendar thing, in terms of what's being discussed. But I don't see why the Discontinuity Guide shouldn't be a perfectly valid reference, as long as it's properly cited. --Brian Olsen 21:41, 9 March 2007 (UTC)

 * The last of that line of footnotes at the end of the article's first paragraph is indeed a link to an online posting of the U.N.I.T--dating sidebar/essay (or at least most of it) from the Discontinuity Guide. That note doesn't appear to be new either, judging from an admittedly quick check of the "History" listings, so I really didn't need to establish the book's credibility. On the other hand, concerning your original criticism, further thinking leads me to retract backing down from the "1980" explanation, as the topic of this particular article, indicated by its opening paragraph, is fan speculation. Besides, Cornell, Day, & Topping's book is as much fan speculation as Robinson's site, the only real differences being that one was released to the public as a completed book while the other as an incomplete web site (that is, covering the entire original series run vs. slightly more than half of it, and venues, which admittedly means that Cornell, Day, & Topping got paid while Robinson didn't). Can't understand why Robinson seemed completely unaware of the gross continuity problems with the depiction of the second Doctor's status in The Two Doctors, which does work against his credibility. That is an argument against accepting his conclusions that is fair. Ted Watson 21:35, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

The 'April calendar' is in Chapter 8 (2nd chapter of episode 2) and states Thursday 5 April (could only be 1973). It is a big wooden thing and is on the wall, above the desk of the welshman who was also in Spearhead from Space (it can be seen more clearly in the DVD Special Feature; Picture Gallery). But I'm afraid while searching for this calendar, I have found a third and a fourth. The third is in chapter 8 as-well and is seen behind the spectacled chap, sitting at his desk. On the wall behind and above him to the right is an odd assortment of round white pegs on a white board. Of the bottom 12, May is highlighted! It is very hard to see the 3 letter abbreviations on each peg and pausing your DVD doesn't help (playing it is better). What is easier to read is the 7 pegs above which state the days 25-31. Above these and out of shot must be 3 rows of 8 (days 1-24). The fourth is in chapter 22, when Yates is on the phone to the Brig. On the wall to the right, when the shot pans to the security guard, there is a similar calendar, stating Sunday 28 April (1974). Basically we're not supposed to be finding all these dates! I think the best bet is May 1974, which would allow Jeremy (Thorpe, of the Liberal party) to win the February 1974 UK general election. --AGB 9:35, 27 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Thanks for finding all those calendars. Also, that's a good point about when the election of "Jeremy" would have had to have happened, I presume. As an American, I could not have worked that one out, but I certainly concede that such things overrule calendars in the background. Thanks again. -- Ted Watson (talk) 22:40, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

 * It would be a tricky one with such future speculation. One slightly more realistic possibility for "Prime Minister Jeremy" is that if the Liberals had formed a coalition in the mid 1970s then Thorpe would probably have been Deputy Prime Minister in practice, if not in name as well. And if the sitting PM died or had to resign immediately then Thorpe would be the natural person to appoint as an interim PM whilst the majority party in the coalition elected a new leader. This is indeed how both Earle Page and John McEwen became Prime Minister of Australia despite being the leader of a smaller party. (Arthur Fadden was more complicated as the larger party was involved in strong infighting and he was chosen by a joint meeting of the Coalition parties as a more substantive PM, something unlikely in either the Conservatives or Labour in the 1970s.) Timrollpickering (talk) 23:45, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

 * That wouldn't have happened. The interim Prime Minister would be the deputy leader of the major party in the coalition - not the leader of the junior party. In any case Thorpe's Liberals only won 14 seats in parliament in February 74, less even than the Ulster Unionists. Heath offered him the role of Home Secretary in a coalition, but after consultation he declined. The writers of the story cannot have known any of this, however, as it was still in their future - as indeed was Thorpe's 1976 resignation as Liberal leader after being accused of hiring a hit man to murder his former male lover. TharkunColl (talk) 09:55, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

 * The Ulster Unionists had only 7 seats - the unified coalition of three Unionist parties only 11 between them. As for interim PMs this is somewhat specualtive becuase we haven't had a PM die in office since 1865 and the last time the PM resigned for personal reasons was in Law in 1923 when the Monarch just appointed a successor directly and did not wait for a leadership election - in those days the nearest the Conservatives had was a meeting that ratified whoever had already emerged. Also the Conservatives don't always have an identified deputy leader and didn't have one between Maudling's resignation in 1972 and Whitelaw's appointment in 1975. Similarly the Labour Deputy Leader hasn't always been in government - George Brown wasn't between 1968 and 1970, similarly Edward Short was deputy leader for the first few months of Callaghan's premiership but not in government, whilst Geoffrey Howe was Deputy Prime Minister between 1989 & 1990, but Lord Whitelaw was still deputy leader of the party.

 * Much of this is thus in the hands of theory, but I don't see it as unreasonable to suggest that if the Prime Minister of a coalition government were to suddenly die then the Queen might choose to appoint the Deputy Prime Minister as an interim PM whilst the majority party sorted out who the new leader was. It is very awkward for a party in government to suddenly have a leadership election thrust upon it, especially one that could require an all member ballot of the membership in the country, and the monarch would not want to be seen to prejudging the outcome or giving one candidate an inherent advantage. A similar basis exists in the Labour Party rules which now state that if the leadership suddenly falls vacant while the party is in office then the Cabinet and NEC will appoint an interim successor whilst a leadership election is held, bypassing the Deputy Leader (who could, of course, stand for the leadership). Again they're trying to avoid a situation where the party is basically asked to either rubber stamp or depose a sitting PM, neither of which is particularly good for political and market stability.

 * Lest anyone raises Bernard Ingham's famous comment that "Deputy PM doesn't mean you succeed if the PM is run over by a bus", remember the context in which it was made. In a reshuffle of the Cabinet, Geoffrey Howe had been moved from the Foreign Office and part of the "deal" to get him to just accept another post (Leader of the House of Commons - a demotion) and not resign and cause trouble was to give him the title of Deputy Prime Minister. Ingham - often considered "the real Deputy Prime Minister" in some quarters - was no doubt expressing the frustrations of No 10 that this title had had to be given. A better comparison is with the Lab-Lib Dem coalitions in the Scottish Executive where the Lib Dem Scottish leader became Deputy First Minister and routinely acted as First Minister when the successive Labour leaders fell ill/died/resigned. Timrollpickering (talk) 15:25, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Stories that began without UNIT links
I'm wondering if the notes on how Ambassadors and Mawdryn began would be better off in the production section. Also whilst Ambassadors may have began with a different setting, when it was made (1969) weren't NASA predicting to have a man on Mars by 1980? This doesn't make the technology seem so advanced considering what Sherwin and Pertwee were saying in the media. Timrollpickering 02:02, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

 * "[In 1969] weren't NASA predicting to have a man on Mars by 1980?" Not in the memory of this American who grew up not far from Houston, TX, where NASA was HQ'ed by that time, and who watched all the "space shots" on TV most interestedly. Ted Watson 21:26, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

Wiki OR- time slippage
I'm not intending to put this into the article, but someone mentioned "time slippage". Perhaps this was due to the Time Lords' punishment of the Doctor in "The War Games" or something that the Doctor did in Season 6(b) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Whoviangeekdude (talk • contribs).

Four to Doomsday supposed "near precise" dating
Using the Four to Doomsday dates as evidence for dating the UNIT stories in my opinion has no place in this article. The heading says "precise or near precise" and the wishy washy timeline proffered and the Doctor's speculation about if the Brig was a General now (combined with the even more dubious assertion that that implies a large passage of time) means it is next to useless as a point in the debate. Mmm commentaries (talk) 05:05, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I wonder whether we actually need an entire article on this subject. Why can't we just say, in the article on UNIT, "as with many features of Doctor Who, correspondence with the real world is vague, there is no clear indication of the dates of events, and those clues that do exist tend to be inconsistent with one another." And a couple examples would do, references by the various sources in this article.

 * Obviously it's simply pointless to try to establish a consistent timeframe for a body of works by different authors who obviously felt no pressing need to adhere to such standards. The reason it's so difficult to establish when the UNIT stories took place is obvious: they are completely fictional events.  They never took place at all. --Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The 13:21, 6 April 2008 (UTC)

 * I do believe you're missing the point. Moreover, while the original series was rather.. inconsistent with dates given the nature of the program, the revived series has tried hard to establish dates whenever possible. It should also be pointed out that since the novels and various expanded universe materials quite often contradict themselves and aren't even considered official canon material (whatever the fans think), that perhaps we shouldn't even use them as proper gauging for when UNIT's stories take place. While I would so love to hear an official explanation, the Doctor's "back in the 70's.. or was it the 80's?" line or "wibbley wobbley timey whimey" are about as much as we'll get. Time Travel is tricky business at the best of times, and whatever else may be, the series has decided the original UNIT stories took place ages ago, and we should be content with the knowledge that the newer stories are at least following a chronological designation.--Dakmordian (talk) 08:56, 17 October 2010 (UTC)

BBC Three.
The fact that BBC 3 was not launched until 2003 is not a contradictory clue imho. Stuff in our world doesn't count, else you could say Harriet Jones being PM in 2006 was a continuity error. No. We live in a parallel universe! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Whoviangeekdude (talk • contribs) 16:18, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, but using that as an excuse to justify anything one wants takes the fun out of it. Cornell, Day & Topping's Discontinuity Guide took great pains to avoid that—and then the latter two wrote a "Past Doctor" novel, Devil Goblins from Neptune, in which they arbitrarily and with no impact whatsoever on their plot described a different history for the Beatles than we know and a few other such variations on real-world events. Makes me wonder just how much imput into the former book those two actually had. After all, "Season 6B" is often attributed solely to Cornell. Ted Watson (talk) 20:52, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

 * I think we can imagine that Doctor Who is a parallel universe to ours and therefore what year BBC Three was set up in, does not matter. Perhaps in the Doctor Who universe it was set up in the year of the episodes broadcast. I just hope they remember in the new series that BBC Three has been broadcasting for over 30 years, although it hasn't.--°wɧoɳɪvɛʀsɜ 00:57, 2 June 2009 (UTC)

Category renaming
Please go to Categories_for_discussion/Log/2008_April_27 where there is a debate and vote on renaming Category:United Nations Intelligence Taskforce. Type 40 (talk) 14:08, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Continuity announcement Invasion Episode 1
The original off air recordings of episode 1 of The Invasion (the only surviving archive material of that episode) begin with the announcer stating the doctor travels to the year 1975. I can quote this word for word if necessary and or post an audio clip, but I'd need to dig it out. I believe this was also printed in the Radio Times. While it's an on air quote just before the theme music I'm not sure if it counts as a primary source, as it's not repeated on screen by any of the cast.

What is interesting is it is only one of two dates explicitly stated by the BBC, bookend the Classic Unit era, this quote and Sarah Jane saying "I'm from 1980" in the Pyramids of Mars that takes place just after the last Unit story Terror of the Zygons.

Gives a nice 5 year period for the bulk of the UNIT stories to occur in. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Frrostie (talk • contribs) 21:10, 21 February 2011 (UTC)

DVD documentary
I don't have the time to add/cite this source now (new baby!) but there's a 9-minute documentary on the UNIT dating controversy on the Day of the Daleks DVD, which could be used to source many of the statements in this article (and perhaps remove the OR tag). —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 05:48, 9 March 2012 (UTC)

details of merge
I personally still think this is deletion worthy. But I'll abide by the consensus to merge. I'd lean to merging as little as possible. That's not just because of the lack of encyclopedic content here, but also because the section at United_Nations_Intelligence_Taskforce is far better written and sourced than anything else in here. I'll work with anyone who in good faith wants to respect the consensus from the AFD, and enhance the main UNIT article without violating other policies and guidelines. I'll wait around for a bit for input, and then we'll go ahead and carry out the merge as per the consensus. (And, of course, there's nothing to stop someone from revisiting the edit history here and merging further content to the UNIT article afterwards.) Shooterwalker (talk) 23:16, 11 September 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:UNIT dating controversy


text: User talk:62.60.196.3

title: User talk:62.60.196.3


text:
Talk:Ricardo Zonta

Photo
We need a photo of Zonta. Most other drivers have photographs in their entries.

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:36, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Hiya - just to let people know, i deleted the following text form Ricardo's bio:

Toyota lap records
"On the final day of the Rolex Monterey Historic Automobile Races Presented by Toyota, Ricardo Zonta and the Panasonic Toyota Racing Team TF106 F1 car continued to lower the record for the 11-turn, 2.238 mile Laguna Seca Raceway. Sunday's record-breaking time was 1:06.309 at an average speed of 121.504 mph on lap four of four flying laps. Zonta, traveling on brand new tires for the first time this weekend, laid down four consistent laps for an average of 1:06.640. His Saturday best time was 1:06.596 and Friday's best time was 1:07.587. On all three days, Zonta beat the previous track record of 1:07.722 set by Helio Castroneves at the CART Honda Grand Prix of Monterey in 2000. Castroneves' speed was 118.969. Despite the Toyota team and Zonta only doing demonstration laps for the fans, and not going flat-out to break the record, they still managed to do so.  It is estimated that, had they spent a proper test week prior to the event to get a proper set up for the track, had the right compound tires (they did not use the softest Bridgestone compound available, rather a medium compound), and gone full-bore for the track record, it is estimated that, with the TF106 that they used here, a time in the range of 1:04 would be possible, and, of course, a quicker time for a Ferrari 248F1 or Renault R26, as the Toyota TF106 is about 1-1.5 seconds slower than those two cars. Either way, an F1 car is the fastest on that track, even after only doing demonstration laps."

It doesn't really have anything to do with Zonta and record has since been broken by a Champ Car anyway, so it's now factually incorrect. It also seems written from a very F1 biased view (see last sentance) and out of place for a bio of a driver anyway.
 * I agree, although you'll find you get reverted less often if you use the edit summary box just below the editing window to explain your edits, especially if you delete large chunks of text. As a side note, not sure the last sentence is biased. F1 cars are faster than CART or IRL cars, other than on ovals: it's simply down to the different regulations, an F1 car is lighter, has about the same power, and can brake harder (carbon vs steel brakes). That doesn't make them 'better', the respective rules of the series just make them that way. Cheers. 4u1e (talk) 18:25, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ricardo Zonta


text:
New England Science Fiction Association

The New England Science Fiction Association, or NESFA, is a science fiction club centered in the New England area. It was founded in 1967, "by fans who wanted to do things in addition to socializing". NESFA is currently registered as a non-profit literary organization under IRS section 501(c)(3).

The organization holds regular meetings (at their dedicated site, the NESFA Clubhouse) of and for members and other interested parties. A weekly meeting is held most Wednesday evenings, for socializing, projects, and miscellaneous business. Two weekend meetings are held every month: a Business Meeting (for administration), and the Other Meeting. The club also publishes a regular newsletter, Instant Message. There are two book groups that meet on a monthly basis, as well as a monthly Game Day, and a monthly Game Night. In addition, there is a monthly Media day. This involves showings of two episodes of an anime series, two TV series episodes and a movie choice. All are science fiction/fantasy related. There is currently a NESFA Short Story Contest, accepting submissions from amateur writers seeking to improve their science fiction/fantasy writing through constructive critical analysis from expert readers, editors, and professional writers.

Boskone
The club runs an annual science fiction convention, Boskone. In the words of the convention organizers, "Boskone is a regional Science Fiction convention focusing on literature, art, music, and gaming (with just a dash of whimsy)". It is held over a weekend every February, in the city of Boston, Massachusetts. The name is a reference to the classic Lensman series by E. E. Smith, in which "Boskone" is a council of villains, and also a name for their civilization. The obvious name for a con in Boston would, of course, be "Boscon"; the similarity was noticed and embraced. Continuing the trend, when a new Boston-area convention was formed, the organizers of that event named it "Arisia", the name of the civilization for which the protagonists work in the Lensman series.

Boskone I was held in 1941 under the auspices of The Stranger Club, an earlier Boston-based SF club. Four more were held annually, ending with Boskone V in 1945. The current series of Boskones started in 1965 with Boskone 1 and continued without interruption to the present. Boskone 1, 2, and 4 were run by BosSFS, the now-defunct Boston Science Fiction Society. The then-newly formed NESFA took over with Boskone 5. The tradition of holding Boskone in February started in 1976.

NESFA Press
NESFA has a small publishing arm, NESFA Press, which specializes in classic and neglected works of science fiction, as well as SF/fandom reference and historical material. Works published by NESFA press include:

 * Once More* with Footnotes, by Terry Pratchett (2004)
 * Norstrilia by Cordwainer Smith (1995)
 * The Rediscovery of Man by Cordwainer Smith (1993)

Skylark Award
The Edward E. Smith Memorial Award for Imaginative Fiction (the Skylark) is presented annually by NESFA to some person, who, in the opinion of the membership, has contributed significantly to science fiction, both through work in the field and by exemplifying the personal qualities which made the late "Doc" Smith well loved by those who knew him.

Jack Gaughan Award
The Jack Gaughan Award is presented annually to an emerging artist chosen by a panel of judges (which have included Vincent Di Fate, Kelly Freas, Michael Whelan, David Cherry, Bob Eggleton, Tyler Jacobson, and Ron Walotsky).

MCFI
NESFA also hosts meetings of Massachusetts Convention Fandom, Inc. MCFI, a non-profit like NESFA, is responsible for various "special" conventions in the New England area. Most notable of these is Noreascon, MCFI's occasional Worldcon bid. The most recent of these was Noreascon Four, the 62nd World Science Fiction Convention, in September 2004. MCFI has also hosted SMOFcon, Ditto, and the World Fantasy Convention. MCFI is a separate legal entity from NESFA, though there is a large overlap in membership.

title: New England Science Fiction Association