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Talk:Papa Haydn

(old)
My first reaction was to ask why this isn't in the main Haydn article, although I realize it would probably be out of balance to have such a large amount of text on one topic.

Anyway, I always thought of Papa Haydn as a fond way of talking about the "Father of the Symphony" (contrary to usual custom, nobody knows who the mother was) not to mention the string quartet. Or, even more, as the father of classicism, setting the development of art-music on its familiar linear path. Isn't there some element of that in the persistence of the name? DavidBrooks 18:40, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks, DB. I've never heard of this connection, though it seems plausible.  I'll try to check further.  This is a slightly tricky topic to cover, since the biographers evidently don't like the term and don't talk much about it.  Opus33 19:04, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Maybe it would be helpful to remember that "Papa" in German is an affctionate form of "father", roughly equivalent to the anglo-american "Dad". And just like "Dad" it may be used to express a combination of (mainly personal) affection and respect, even if there is no family relation (AFAIK, there have been several american musicians regularly dubbed "Daddy", "Big Daddy" or suchlike). To put more into this address looks to me like over-interpretation.
 * 85.176.15.62 (talk) 01:48, 18 January 2009 (UTC)

 * Thank you. I tried to revise a bit in response.  Opus33 (talk) 07:11, 21 January 2009 (UTC)

Twinkle, twinkle
Hello, I've never seen any claim in a peer-reviewed source that the 2nd movem3ent theme of the Surprise Symphony is based on "Twinkle, twinkle little star" (or on its French version "Ah vous dirai-je maman"). A reference source *was* provided by the previous editor, who clearly was making a good-faith edit. However, this source looks like it is by a program note author. These guys work on deadline and often commit errors; for instance, the author of these notes got Haydn's name wrong.

I would be happy to include the "Twinkle, twinkle" bit but only if there is a real reference source backing it up. Thanks for your patience, Opus33 (talk) 06:58, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

 * The Kennedy Center's pretty reliable. Where is Franz Joseph Haydn's name incorrect? But, here are some more:
 * Time magazine
 * Art Times Journal
 * Yosemite Gazette
 * Warner Bros. Publications (and Alfred Publishing)
 * Yopienso (talk) 07:19, 26 August 2011 (UTC)
 * Ah, "peer-reviewed." Not sure that exists; certainly not sure that it's necessary. Let's just take David Dubal's word for it. Yopienso (talk) 08:08, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

 * Opus33, I'm going to go ahead and restore my edit since the fact is abundantly clear from multiple RSs. We would prefer peer-reviewed material as much as possible, but most of the citations in WP are not from refereed sources. This, after all, is the "Papa Haydn" page; I'll not interfere with the Franz Joseph Haydn page. Please don't revert again without further discussion. I appreciate your care and knowledge. Yopienso (talk) 22:50, 26 August 2011 (UTC)

While were on it, it seems to me I learned a somewhat different version of the little ditty, in particular a different second couplet. Unfortunately this was so long ago I can't recall the details, but I think it went something like "when he wrote tune like these we hope you remember this". Wschart (talk) 13:09, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Thoughts...
I recently came across a number of excerpts/quotes from the last few centuries which I cobbled together after this brief exchange of views some three years ago, and I wondered if any of them were worth incorporating into the current article. I hope I have cited every quote correctly - some are longer than others. Almost every paragraph is taken from the indented work cited below it, with or without double quote marks.

"Of course, the old 'Papa Haydn' image of the composer-the innocent who composed music without quite knowing how or why-militates against the idea that he ever thought deeply about his art. Schroeder, however, presents quite a different view, demonstrating that Haydn was, at the very least, aware of intellectual debate from the 1780s onwards and that his musical development is inextricably mixed with it." p. 446
 * 1.

Reviewed Work(s): Haydn and the Enlightenment: The Late Symphonies and Their Audience by David P. Schroeder Review by: David Wyn Jones Source: Music & Letters, Vol. 72, No. 3 (Aug., 1991), pp. 445-447 Published by: Oxford University Press Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/736237

"This view, to oversimplify somewhat, resembles the popular image of the aged Haydn - pious and gentle, rather un worldly, diffident towards his genius and perhaps not wholly aware of it - or, in a slightly different vein, the self-ideal to which Stravinsky once claimed to have aspired: 'a small Bach, living in anonymity and composing regularly for an established service and for God'.2 Not surprisingly, the image of the man has gone hand in hand with a tendency to regard the music itself as 'small Bach' - and not just any Bach, but that particular Bach invoked by Stravinsky, the musico-theological paragon venerated by an earlier generation as the 'Fifth Evangelist'. Yet just as this Bach has at last fallen by the wayside in serious studies, and just as 'Papa Haydn' now seems well along to following him there, so too, I suggest, has our inherited understanding. Schuetz outlived whatever value it may once have had." p. 651
 * 2

Towards a New Image of Henrich Schütz. Author(s): Joshua Rifkin Source: The Musical Times, Vol. 126, No. 1713 (Nov., 1985), pp. 651-658 Published by: Musical Times Publications Ltd. Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/965034

"(It is above all in this respect [insistent syncopations] that Haydn performances often fail, whereby most interpreters lack the mental agility to deal with the ever-changing 'physiognomy' of Haydn's music, subsiding instead into an ease of manner and a concern for broader effects that they have acquired in their playing of Mozart.) Still more disconcerting is the previously-mentioned way in which Haydn combines his 'omnivorous' passion for humour of all degrees with elements of wayward fantasy and deadly seriousness, which cannot be separated in our experience of the music (although the less fathomable traits have often been discarded - hence the convenience of the 'Papa Haydn' label to fall back upon). Even in such a case as the first movement of Piano Sonata no.48, a simple reaction is not appropriate: the tone is at once matter-of-fact and plainly facetious (compare the tender effect of the unexpected Bb at bar 16 with the preceding bars)." (Interestingly enough, Wagner also saw 'einen gefesselten Damon' active in Haydn's music.)" [13] Too often the opposite view has obtained, as the composer's (enigmatic) modesty has insinuated itself into the ruling conception of his musical personality. Even HC Robbins Landon, for all his liveliness of appreciation, does not quite manage to shake off the old stereotypes. Charles Rosen disappoints still further in this regard, particularly as a writer who has shown such insight into Haydn's musical procedures, when he states:: "The artistic personality that Haydn created for himself (related to, but not to be confused with, the face he wore for everyday purposes) prevented, by its assumption of an easy-going geniality, the full development of the subversive and revolutionary aspect of his art; his music, as E.T.A. Hoffmann wrote, appears to have been composed before original sin." [14] This is just a sophistry for the 'Papa Haydn' image. [13] For a selection of Wagner's verdicts on Haydn see Robbins Landon, Haydn: Chronicle and Works, Vol. 5: Haydn: The Late Years, Thames & Hudson (London, 1977), pp.423-24 [14] The Classical Style, p.325
 * 3.

"Whichever way one may proceed, the prospects for any sort of comprehensive understanding of Haydn's musical personality are, on past performance, none too bright. Although the image of 'Papa Haydn' may be gradually attaining the status of an historical curiosity as we achieve a richer appreciation of the achievements of the composer, we should at least retain one sense of this mythological tag that may give us greater patience in our search for his artistic 'core': that, as a nominal father-figure, and indeed as 'the source of every single compositorial innovation right up the present day',[22] Haydn may reserve the right to a certain patriarchal inaccessibility as we attempt to establish the artistic and emotional sources of his formidable output. (pp 342-3) [22] Hans Keller, The Great Haydn Quartets, Dent, 1986, p. 26 Haydn's Musical Personality Author(s): W. Dean Sutcliffe Source: The Musical Times, Vol. 130, No. 1756 (Jun., 1989), pp. 341-344 Published by: Musical Times Publications Ltd. Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/966030

 * 4.

Perhaps a guiding influence is also provided by the telling remark made late in the book: 'With the exception of the quartets, whose intellectual content has always been apparent to all, Haydn's music has suffered from a blinkered critical attitude, one that tends to patronise the "Papa Haydn" aspect and seriously undervalue the composer's profundity' (p.347). It may be, therefore, that the comparative playing-down of Haydnesque wit and eccentricity, as well as the slightly conservative tone, are calculated so as to emphasise the depth, if not the breadth, of the composer's achievement.

Reviewed Work(s): Haydn: His Life and Music by H. C. Robbins Landon and David Wyn Jones Review by: W. Dean Sutcliffe Source: The Musical Times, Vol. 130, No. 1757 (Jul., 1989), pp. 410-411 Published by: Musical Times Publications Ltd. Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/1193443

"Webster points out that Haydn's monotonal symphonies and quartets in minor keys are "concentrated and intense"; that minor-key works ending in the major are invariably in flat-side minor keys and were composed after 1780 (before 1780, only four of twenty-two minor-key works in major instrumental genres turned to major, and works in sharp-side minor keys of any year hardly ever went to the major); that minor-mode finales tend to be "serious" as opposed to the more "galant" finales in major, with the Farewell Symphony a notable exception to this characterization (pp. 221-222) But in the late works, the progression from minor to major, sometimes connected to the remote-key juxtapositions of interior movements, may embody a psychological progression far deeper than the conventional view of a turn to "cheerfulness" (a relegation to "Papa Haydn" status that Webster does not suffer gladly)." (p. 299)
 * 5.

Reviewed Work(s): Haydn's "Farewell" Symphony and the Idea of Classical Style: Through-Composition and Cyclic Integration in His Instrumental Music by James Webster Review by: Elaine R. Sisman Source: Journal of the American Musicological Society, Vol. 48, No. 2 (Summer, 1995), pp.293-305 Published by: University of California Press on behalf of the American Musicological Society Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3128818

"I have always felt a deep antipathy toward this work [The Creation]... Its lowing oxen, its buzzing insects, its light in C which dazzles like a Carcel lamp, and then its Adam, Uriel, Gabriel, and the flute solos and all its genialities really get on my nerves - they make me want to punch somebody out. The English love a pudding surrounded with a layer of fat; I detest it. Fat is exactly what surrounds the musical pudding of Papa Haydn. Naivete is all very fine, but too much of it we don't need! ... I wouldn't give an apple for the privilege of meeting Eve in the woods; I am sure she is stupid enough to make the good Lord ashamed of himself, and is just what her husband deserves." Letter to Princess Carolyne Sayn-Wittgenstein, dated Paris, 8 Feb. 1859, in Hector Berlioz, Correspondance generale, ed. Pierre Citron, vol. 5 (Paris: Flammarion, 1989), p. 654. (p. 357n)
 * 6.

Becoming Original: Haydn and the Cult of Genius Thomas Bauman Source: The Musical Quarterly, Vol. 87, No. 2 (Summer, 2004), pp. 333-357 Published by: Oxford University Press Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/3600908

Such a view of Haydn as the master manipulator, original, boundlessly creative, playful, witty, is given several stunning twists in the final section of the book by Lawrence Kramer. Not only does this 'twentieth-century image of Haydn' help, ironically enough, to keep the Papa Haydn label alive by continually representing its limitations, it owes its inception to one man-Donald Francis Tovey. More specifically, it is 'the Anglophone Haydn' (p.240), and it derives as much from 'certain strains in eighteenth-century British literary tradition' as it does from Germanic music history (p.241).
 * 7.

James Garratt offers a compelling prelude to this by focusing precisely on the century that leant most strongly on the Papa Haydn sobriquet. He believes that, in thrall to what we might dub the 'failure narrative' of Haydn's 19th- century reception, we are inclined to imagine a uniformly unflattering picture of the composer throughout this time; yet many of the famous dismissals might reflect an urge 'to reshape rather than reflect reality' (p.227) when Haydn in fact continued to feature prominently in concert life (p. 127)

Review: Haydn: Light and Shade Reviewed Work(s): The Cambridge Companion to Haydn by Caryl Clark Review by: W. Dean Sutcliffe Source: Early Music, Vol. 35, No. 1 (Feb., 2007), pp. 125-127 Published by: Oxford University Press Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/4137280

 * 8.

In "The Portrait of Haydn Over the Course of Time," written for the 1932 bicentennial celebrations, Geiringer shatters the "Papa Haydn" stereotype. Reviewed Work(s): Joseph Haydn and the Eighteenth Century: Collected Essays of Karl Geiringer by Karl Geiringer and Robert N. Freeman Review by: Malcolm S. Cole Source: Notes, Second Series, Vol. 60, No. 2 (Dec., 2003), pp. 435-437 Published by: Music Library Association Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/4487146

"All this makes it understandable that his musicians loved their "Papa", as they came to call him. The nickname must not, however, lead to the conception that H. was in any way easygoing... he was certaily adamant as far as the musical activities were concerned. (p. 48)
 * 8a.

The Esterhaza musicians honoured him on his name day in 1808, to which he replied with a letter full of fatherly love for his dear children, thanking them for their expression of true filial feelings. (p. 181)

Cherubini came to call on H. in his old age, and H. gave C. the autograph of Symphony 103 (Mit dem Paukenwirbel). He wrote under his name 'Guiseppe Haydn' the words "Padre del Celbre Cherubini ai 4tro di Febr. 1806" (p. 185)

Similarly, the harsh dissonances in the trio of the miniuet of Op. 54, No. 2, contradict all sentimental conceptions of good old "Papa" Haydn"' . (p. 289) On the other hand, the very gaiety and naturalness of his idiom, combined with unbroken homogeneity, earned H. the disdain of the romantic era. The scarcity of discordant and ambiguous moods in his music made people look down on "good old Papa Haydn". Only in the twentieth century, when romantic ideals began to lose their hold on artistic thinking, did a true appreciation of H.'s greatness become possible.(p. 368)

Haydn : A Creative Life in Music (1982) [1946] 3rd revised enlarged ed. Geiringer, Karl, in collab w/ Irene G. Berkeley University of California Press 0520043170 https://archive.org/details/haydncreativelif00geir_0/page/48/mode/1up/search/papa

 * 9.

"...negatively affect the specific context of Haydn reception. 3 As I will argue, this is not an abstract question, but rather one that addresses the precise historical circumstance that brought about Haydn’s demotion, beginning in the nineteenth century and continuing even against the grain of the “performance practice” movement of the late twentieth century, from a master composer of the first rank to “Papa Haydn,” a venerated fogy who helped make Mozart and Beethoven possible but whose music has not stood the “test of time” as well as theirs. As Bryan Proksch writes, “Seemingly the moment after [Haydn’s] burial [in 1809], the musical world set about dismantling his reputation, coining one dismissive cliche after another. ‘Roguish,’ ‘childlike,’ ‘naive,’ ‘old-worldly,’ ‘dainty,’ ‘neighborly, and other terms ... characterize Haydn ... as some kind of cockeyed optimist shackled by his prerevolutionary birth and his employment as a naive wig-wearing servant of the ancient regime.” (p. 4) ... "The gradual process of Haydn settling into this cultural niche, which could have more-or-less permanently demoted him from the pantheon of German masters, has been complicated by at least four factors: Haydn’s evident mastery of his craft, the now-habitual veneration accorded him as an important predecessor to Beethoven (itself a kind of demotion, as “Papa” Haydn), his small corpus of fully “serious” works, and the growing need, verging at times on hysteria, for “classical” venues and institutions to appeal to aging and occasionally more youthful audiences through more readily entertaining musical programming." (p. 84)...

"...Meanwhile, Haydn, having earned the sobriquet “Papa Haydn” as a virtuous forbear who developed the requisite techniques but lacked the vision for how they might serve a new musical order, has been unfairly but inevitably cast into an ancillary historical role. This historical hierarchy, in turn, has reinforced musicology’s preoccupation with the “serious” dimensions of Haydn’s dynamic polarities, in effect focusing not on Haydn but only on that part of him legible from the perspective of a set of musical practices and understandings that evolved only after his career ended, and which left no place for the central dynamic that energized his musical practices. (p. 266)"

"Yet despite Haydn’s occasional appearances in “light classical” concerts, he has never really been at home there, either, and increasingly less so. Regarding the “Farewell” Symphony, for example, audiences will be not only impatient for the sweetly comic payoff but also potentially mystified by the turgid ferocity of the opening movement. They will, in fact, tend to be happier with “Pops” than with “Papa,” since the Pops side of the “light classical” repertory will often enough be based on actually popular music, as with film scores, classicized pop tunes, or concert pieces derived from musicals. On the other hand, Haydn has over the last generation attracted renewed attention in the academy, some of it extremely responsive to what makes him so remarkable a composer and musical thinker.[9] But despite this more serious attention to his lighter side, within the more earnestly serious spaces of musical idealism Haydn will too often seem the unruly child who hasn’t learned to regulate his impulses. Here, the finale to the “Farewell,” the second movements of the “Clock” and “Surprise” Symphonies, and above all the “fart” movement in no. 93, will for many seem silly and inappropriate, as will the returning Janissary instruments at the end of the finale in the “Military” Symphony." (p. 273)

Making Light: Haydn, Musical Camp, and the Long Shadow of German Idealism Raymond Knapp Duke University Press Durham and London 2018 https://archive.org/details/makinglighthaydn00knap

"Pohl can claim a place beside the monuments of Haydn scholarship listed above. Even the deservedly familiar volume by Karl Geiringer makes no pretensions to the scope or comprehensiveness of Pohl or Landon, and it has had little independent impact on our views of Haydn's life or music.10 In its masterly balance and freedom from cliché, Larsen's and Landon's article on Haydn for MGG represents an exception, but its limited scope and ungrateful format have prevented it from exercising the influence it deserved; perhaps Larsen's similar article in The New Grove will command greater attention in the English-speaking world." (p. 479)
 * 10.

"Webster considers Philipp Spitta's criticism of Pohl's biography (Joseph Haydn, 3 volumes, Leipzig 1878–1882):

Pohl's view of Haydn thus suffers from an excess of detail and never focuses on H's personality or style. Allied with this (continues Spitta) is Pohl's distinctly Biedermeier view of H: his prose style, with inordinately long digressions, descriptions of journeys and locales that recall travel writing, passages of pure fantasy regarding H's actions or feelings, is closer to recreational readings than serious research. Worse, this combination of excessive concentration on secondary details and Biedermeier tone led Pohl to overemphasize the naive, humorous elements of Haydn's character, to to the perpetuation of '''the absurd "Papa Haydn" myth. (p. 479).'''

"Landon tells us all we need to know about Haydn's personality, and he often refers to the darker and more complex side of his nature, but he never focuses on this subject, and so he does not achieve a novel or convincing portrait. For all their balance, [Landon &] Larsen's accounts in MGG [Die Musik in Geschichte und Gegenwart Vol V, Kassel, 1956] and The New Grove still remain overly dependent on the authentic literary accounts. (The "Papa Haydn" myth arose in part because of those accounts, which memorialize Haydn's undeniable piety, humor, and concern for his  fellow man at a time when his increasing senility produced a caricature of  the whole man.) In these respects Feder has provided an ideal starting point with a careful, brief, substantially revisionist (not revolutionary) view of Haydn's personality based almost exclusively on his own words.[25] [25] "Joseph Haydn als Mensch und Musiker," in Gerda Mraz, ed., Joseph Haydn. Zeit (Jahrbuch fiir osterreichische Kulturgeschichte, I/2 [1972]: (Beitraige zur Musikgeschicte des 18. Jahrhunderts, II), pp. 43-56; reprint, Osterreichische Musikzeitschrift, XXVII (1972), 57-68.

"Feder concludes that Haydn largely realized that admirable Enlightenment ideal of the honnete homme, whose intrinsic merit in life and work is matched only by his skill in realizing its success in the world. In this portrait the "fatherly" traits coexist, not without tension, with such different ones as highly developed manners, diplomatic skill, critical judgement, sensitivity to criticism, jealousy of his stature as a great composer, and so on. (pp. 493-4)

"...That anyone could have supposed that the astonishing productions of the "Sturm und Drang" years or the tonal and gestural subtleties of the 1780s could have been the work of "Papa Haydn" is difficult to credit. Perhaps when we have accepted Haydn as the resourceful antagonist of Esterharzy's bureaucrats, the brutal exploiter of publishers' weaknesses, the sensitive recipient of Madame Genzinger's confidences, the trusted courier for high diplomatic personages, we will also learn to listen to him as a different kind of composer. It is equally necessary to sweep away the baggage of two centuries' historical and stylistic misinterpretation: (p. 495)

Prospects for Haydn Biography after Landon Author(s): James Webster Source: The Musical Quarterly, Vol. 68, No. 4 (Oct., 1982), pp. 476-495 Published by: Oxford University Press Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/742153

 * 10a

"It is unfortunate that the three extensive contemporary accounts stem from the first years of the nineteenth century when Haydn's memory had lost some of its acuity. The two biographies by the portrait painter Albert Christoph Dies (Vienna, 1812) and Georg August Griesinger (Leipzig, 1810), a diplomat and representative for Breitkopf & Hartel, are reliable accounts based on actual visits with Haydn. The third by Giuseppe Carpani (Milan, 1812), who translated The Creation into Italian, fulfills our expectations of a man of letters: it is a literary and fictionalized account, with a connoisseur's appreciation of music." (p. 534)

Joseph Haydn in Literature: A Survey Author(s): A. Peter Brown and Carol Vanderbilt Brown Source: Notes, Vol. 31, No. 3 (Mar., 1975), pp. 530-547 Published by: Music Library Association Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/896204 Accessed: 26-05-2020 17:21 UTC

 * 11.

See also New Criticism

"Even the sense of 'presence' that seems so strong in Beethoven's compositions is now widely regarded as distinctly different - as existing in a different domain - from the actual personality of a certain man who was born in Bonn in 1770 and died in Vienna in 1827.[10] In Haydn studies, W. Dean Sutcliffe was the first to explore this issue; I too have insisted, for example, that his 'popular' style is not a simple projection of his personality - in particular, that it must not be equated with the (fortunately now discredited) image of 'Papa Haydn' - but is rather his compositional persona; or, more precisely, one of his personas.[11] And yet, a rigid separation between Haydn's personality and his style would itself be problematical. (p. 17)

[10.] Scott Burnham, Beethoven Hero (Princeton: Princeton University Press, 2000). [11.] Dean W. Sutcliffe, "Haydn's Musical Personality," The Musical Times 130/1756 (1989), 341-344; James Webster, "Haydn's Aesthetics," in Cambridge Companion, ed. Clark, 42.

 * 11a

"My remaining examples are drawn from among Haydn's most familiar and best-loved slow movements. I do this because my thesis is that sensibility is so central a component of his musical personality that by and large it has not even been recognized as such. We hear these movements as beautiful, of course, and admire their instrumentation, their chromaticism, and so on; however, locked in as we are to traditional notions of Haydn as witty and not emotional, we don't ordinarily take them as communicating. To paraphrase a famous phrase of Dr. Johnson's, we don't "listen for the sentiment"; we don't imagine Haydn's persona as notionally speaking to Mme. Genzinger, or Mrs. Schroeter, or to the devotees of 'sensibility' in any audience. I suggest that one put oneself in the position of that kind of listener. (p. 25)

"In a word: the concept 'Classical style' was not compatible with an appreciation for the cultivation and expression of deep personal feelings. This lack of sympathy for sensibility (as it were) on the part of traditional modern listeners applied especially to sentiments of an intimate character in the context of instrumental music, or that seemed to be improvised rather than composed, or that were found in the 'high', 'central' genres of symphony and string quartet. To have responded to such sentiments would (even if unconsciously) have been felt to manifest a 'feminine' sensibility (indeed most 18th-century keyboard music, except for the concerto, was destined primarily for ladies), and hence to threaten the 'masculine' hegemony of coherent form and strict part-writing that were hallmarks of the reception of 'Classical style'. Now that those prejudices are (thankfully) withering away, the great extent and heartfelt character of Haydn's sensibility can once again be heard, as it was unquestionably heard in his day. A more sympathetic listening will be better listening." (p. 27)

Haydn's Sensibility Author(s): James Webster Source: Studia Musicologica, Vol. 51, No. 1/2, HAYDN 2009: A BICENTENARY CONFERENCE PART I (March 2010), pp. 13-27 Published by: Akadémiai Kiadó Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/25746237

 * 12.

Ironic? Satirical? Sarcastic.

Where, too, are the "Wagnerites" of the later eighties, now that Götterdämmerung is fed to school-girls along with Little Women and a subscription to St. Nicholas? And today we are witnessing the easy assimilation of those once formidable Bolsheviki of contemporary letters, the Vers-Librists, and their kindred in the domains of music and painting and sculpture, the fire-eating Futurists. As for Richard Strauss and his once blood-chilling Zarathustra and Heldenleben and Elektra? Why, they have long since been taken to our bosoms along with Papa Haydn and Mozart, and tomorrow will be arranged for the farm-house phonograph, where they will contribute to the simple bucolic joys already enlarged by gasoline and neighborly telephone gossip. (p. 23)

Rodin (addendum to "Thank God for Wilson": The President at His Best) Source: The North American Review, Vol. 207, No. 746 (Jan., 1918), pp. 2-23 Published by: University of Northern Iowa Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/25121740

 * 13.

The author considers the musical travels of Charles Burney, quoting from The present state of music in Germany, the Netherlands, and United provinces.

 * "The Italians are apt to be too negligent, and the Germans too elaborate, in so much that music, if I may hazard the thought, seems play to the Italians and work to the Germans. The Italians are perhaps the only people on the globe who can trifle with grace, as the Germans alone have the power to render even labour pleasing."
 * This is indeed a remarkable bit of aesthetic musing (even if probably under the influence of the then fashionable French Comparaisons), for the recognition of the essential factor of the Italians' and the Austro-Italians' delight in playfulness, of the jeu, the sheer pleasure in making music, was not understood by musicographers and performers for another hundred years or more; the patronizing view of "Papa Haydn" still reflected this lack of understanding. It is surprising, though, that despite his contact with the northern masters who, like Emanuel Bach, denounced the "licentious" music of the south, he spotted and appreciated this quality, even if he detested its chief carrier, the opera buffa. (p. 201)

Tales of a Traveling Music Historian Author(s): Paul Henry Lang Source: The Journal of Musicology, Vol. 2, No. 2 (Spring, 1983), pp. 196-205 Published by: University of California Press Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/763807

 * 14.

Criticism of a simplistic view of music and its practioners:

If Brahms was pictured as the apostle of boredom, the fault with the Russians was their emotional rawness, their confused meanderings, their inconsequential themes. For the proof of all this the prosecuting attorneys promptly haled Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Schubert into court as witnesses for the true and good and everlastingly beautiful in music; - the dear old papa Haydn, the amiable, inoffensive, serene Mozart, the powerful yet so simple and easily understood Beethoven, and so forth. From them and their methods the laws of the eternally beautiful were extracted and abstracted, but they were then shoved before the young musicians' eyes so closely as to obscure from their vision what really counts and is so different from man-made laws: the natural principles which govern all music, whether it be classic or ultra-modern. The trouble with those who dinned and still din into our ears the musical laws as laid down by Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, is that they teach musical history backwards. (pp. 581-2)

Incredible as it may seem, "Papa" Haydn was spared this period of shoulder-shrugging and benevolent schoolmastering not less than any other "classic," that is to say, before the world condescended to place him on a classical pedestal. One need but read occasional remarks of his young friend and disciple Mozart to be reminded of the fact that many "authorities" of those days failed to share Mozart's enthusiastic admiration for Haydn. Any other attitude would have been humanly impossible for the majority, in view of Haydn's bold innovations in form, orchestration, harmony, which so distinguish his works from those of his predecessors and contemporaries. (p. 582)

If Haydn's innovations have lost their appeal of startling novelty the reason is that we do not ordinarily listen to music historically or even musically, but only on the basis of actual tonal sensation. Furthermore, we have artificially bred the notion of Haydn as a "jovial Papa." But Mozart, to whom we owe this widely misunderstood label, never dreamed of characterizing therewith Haydn's music as old-fashioned; he merely alluded to the freshness of Haydn and to the difference in age between himself and the revered master who at the time of Mozart's death had reached his sixtieth year. Unfortunately, musicians ever since, at any rate altogether too many of them, interpreted the "Papa" literally. They adjusted (and adjust) their performance of Haydn's works, except in the case of his oratorios where such nonsense is difficult, to that label; they treat also such passages in Haydn's music with a jovial, grandfatherly smile which sound even for harmonically spoiled ears anything but antiquated and emotionally shallow. (pp. 582-3)

Of course, with these anecdotes I am telling you nothing new, but to remind you of these old stories from Moronia becomes necessary, if my thesis is to stimulate thought in the direction intended. Against this thesis of our habitual and shocking stupidity towards the innovators in music, usually Beethoven serves as a counter-argument. I cannot concede, however, that Beethoven's case diverges essentially from that of other composers who became classics. (p. 584)

Thus, no page in the history of stupidity remains blank and we, too, shall not permit the chapters reserved for us to retain their spotless color of innocence. (p. 586)

Modernists, Classics and Immortality in Music Author(s): O. G. Sonneck Oscar Sonneck Source: The Musical Quarterly, Vol. 11, No. 4 (Oct., 1925), pp. 572-590 Published by: Oxford University Press Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/738282

 * 15.

"Ce que L. von Koechel est à Mozart, A. van Hoboken l'est à Haydn! Les trente années qu'il a passées a recueillir les materiaux nécessaires a l'établissement du répertoire des oeuvres de celui qu'on a si superficiellement titré de "Papa Haydn", ont valu au chercheur sagace l'estime de ses pairs. Ceux-ci lui ont offert un recueil de travaux à l'occasion de son soixante-quinzieme anniversaire."

 * "What L. von Koechel is to Mozart, A. van Hoboken is to Haydn! The thirty years he spent collecting the materials necessary for establishing the repertoire of works by the one so superficially titled "Papa Haydn", have earned the shrewd researcher the esteem of his peers."

Reviewed Work(s): Anthony Van Hoboken. Festschrift zum 75. Jahr, herausgegeben von J. Schmidt-Görg Review by: Pierre Pidoux Source: Revue de Musicologie, T. 49, No. 126 (Jul., 1963), pp. 128-129 Published by: Société Française de Musicologie Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/927225

 * 16.

Haydn did not seem to have any outstanding interest for Harty. A few of the symphonies were performed, and well performed, in a stylized manner closely akin to his treatment of Mozart, but apparently he did not see the older composer as the inventive genius and soundly expressive musician he undoubtedly was. The wit was there and certain naive aspects of Haydn's humour, but scarcely the humanitarianism. It might with justice be suggested that the label "Papa Haydn" with its implications of superficial geniality obscured, as it has with others, his proper view of Haydn's greatness. (p. 220)

Hamilton Harty Author(s): John F. Russell Source: Music & Letters, Vol. 22, No. 3 (Jul., 1941), pp. 216-224 Published by: Oxford University Press Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/728297

 * 17.

In the absence of credible statements of intentionality (and perhaps not even then), no one to-one equation can be sustained between hypothesized or hypostatized aspects of a composer's personality and stylistic features of instrumental music."18 Such an equation inevitably leads to an essentialist view of the artwork as an epiphenomenon of its creator's personality. This is no better than the "vulgar Marxism" that Carl Dahlhaus loved to ridicule, according to which art is mere "superstructure" over a social-psychological, and ultimately economic, "base." These strictures apply no matter what a particular composer's gender or sexual orientation may have been. "Beethoven the Patriarchalist" is no less reductive than "Schubert the Hedonist," or "Clara the Good Woman," or "Papa Haydn"- or, for that matter, "Beethoven the Hero," or even "Beethoven the critic of the heroic style."

[18] Maynard Solomon, ("Franz Schubert and the Peacocks of Benvenuto Cellini". Maynard Solomon, 19th-Century Music, Vol. 12, No. 3 (Spring, 1989), p 206. University of California Press, https://www.jstor.org/stable/746501 )

[1] Solomon had previously proposed this hypothesis in "Franz Schubert's 'My Dream'," American Imago 38 (1981), 137- 54, but this study found little resonance in musicological circles until the appearance of "Schubert and the Peacocks."

Music, Pathology, Sexuality, Beethoven, Schubert Author(s): James Webster Source: 19th-Century Music, Vol. 17, No. 1, Schubert: Music, Sexuality, Culture (Summer, 1993), pp. 89-93 Published by: University of California Press Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/746784

 * 18. (lol)

J. S. - You write: 'Father or Papa Haydn': Had Haydn really any such nickname? My impression is that he was called the "Pope of music": German=Pabst, Italian = Papa; and by confusion of Papa with Papa he is called " Papa Haydn" quite erroneously.' This question has been discussed a good deal lately, and it is never likely to be solved. Your derivation is plausible.

Answers to Correspondents Source: The Musical Times, Vol. 73, No. 1071 (May 1, 1932), pp. 429-431 Published by: Musical Times Publications Ltd. Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/920522

 * 19.

Mr Redfern's own book is a sad affair, thoroughly ill-written and ill thought-out. Often, and always embarrassingly, he wanders into criticism of the music, and his comments on influence in particular are oddly naive. There are innumerable mistakes [...] About Haydn symphonies in the 19th century: 'Those that were published tended to be "corrected" to conform with a picture of "Papa" Haydn as a rather whimsical figure in carpet slippers'. (p. 1225)

Review: Companions Reviewed Work(s): Beethoven by Rosemary Hughes; Haydn by Brian Redfern; Mozart by Alec Hyatt King Review by: Stanley Sadie Source: The Musical Times, Vol. 111, No. 1534, Beethoven Bicentenary Issue (Dec., 1970), pp. 1225-1226 Published by: Musical Times Publications Ltd. Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/955839

 * 20.

The Romantics tended to dismiss Schubert's early works, which are clearly Classical, with the important exception of his songs; they preferred to believe that the more personal late works simply burst forth in a paroxysm of Romantic inspiration. This viewpoint is an excellent illustration of the paradox at the center of Romantic thinking and criticism. Since the Romantics admired the idea of a creative hero who burst the shackles of form and ignored the dictates of formalism (a formalism they actually created), one would expect them to look with approbation on a composer who constantly experimented with form and tonality, just as Beethoven did. But they did not, for Schubert's experimentation did not fit into their myth of an intuitive composer.[10]

[10] Haydn's reputation among the Romantics can be seen in a similar light; constant, daring, experimental composer whose music is governed by such logical clarity as to defy romanticization - instead of making him a hero the Romantic mythmakers neutralized Haydn by glorifying (patronizing) the "Papa" Haydn legend. (pp 486-7)

 * 21. This, especially:

The cliché in literature is a word or phrase of stereotyped use and exact and rigid significance. It is an expression that has no fluidity. It is as a dry rut into which slips the pen of the writer in careless-or uninspired moments,- a piece of common property, the same to all men and at all times. It is therefore literally " abstract,'" foreign to art of any description, and the cause of intellectual death, either in the phrase itself or to the matter with which it is, brought into contact. (p. 247)

The literary cliche is dishonest; it is pretentious, representing no more than lip-homage; it is a sort of cant-phraseology; and it weakens its great original source. It is seldom used by men who, writing thoughtfully and with care, have lived the life they write about or have leamt to understand art. (p. 248)

Not only are words and phrases dried up into platitude, but also ideas, thoughts, artistic moods, figures and illustrations, and even subjects. (p. 249)

Often the literary platitude is false at root. The every day phrases "old Papa Haydn," "old Bach," "old Pepys," "quaint old Sir Thomas Browne," and the like, are as false as would be the impossible phrases "old Shakepeare," "old Schubert," and "old Mozart "; because old Haydn wrote only a small part of his music, Bach produced his most characteristic and vital music long before he reached the age at which Shakespeare retired, Pepys ended his diary at the age at which Mozart died, and Thomas Browne wrote the " Religio Medici " when he was at the most twenty-nine. These phrases are invented in ignorance and used in indolence. Yet they remain in our literature and journalism,* their equivalents form the foundation of our teaching of musical theory, and few musical critics seem able to avoid them. (p. 249)

May I quote a passage from Mark Rutherford?

 * ". . . he maintained that the principal reason why people are so uninteresting is not that they have nothing to say. It is rather that they will not face, the labour of saying in their own tongue what they have to say, but cover it up and conceal it in commonplace, so that we get, not what they themselves behold and what they think, but a hieroglyphic or symbol invented as the representative of a certain class of objects or emotions, and as inefficient to represent a particular object or emotion as x " or " y " to set forth the relation of Hamlet to Ophelia."

 * [NB This fictional description of a political writer with no particularly strongly-held political or religious views of his own, comes from Mark Rutherford's Deliverance, a piece of 'autobiografiction'.

Clichés Author(s): Sydney Grew Source: Music & Letters, Vol. 1, No. 3 (Jul., 1920), pp. 247-255 Published by: Oxford University Press Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/725913

(Sydney Grew, author of Our Favorite Musicians; Favourite Musical Performers; and The Art of the Player-Piano.)

 * 21a.

On Elgar, and more generally the reduction of complex human beings into a pat dismissive phrase.

" Osbert Sitwell contrasted the old guard with the new, noting that "partisans" of Elgar's music were themselves tottering toward dissolution [...]

"Sitwell's opinions [of Elgar], which were shared by many of the postwar avant-garde and have been echoed since, illumine a series of tropes that have ossified into stereotypes, reducing the complexity of a multifaceted period surrounding the interwar consolidation of British modernism."

Other tropes can easily be inserted into this musicological bouillabaisse. (p. 10)

Edward Elgar: "Modern" or "Modernist?" Construction of an Aesthetic Identity in the British Music Press, 1895-1934 Author(s): Charles Edward McGuire Source: The Musical Quarterly, Vol. 91, No. 1/2, British Modernism (Spring - Summer, 2008), pp. 8-38 Published by: Oxford University Press Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/20534522

 * 22.

"1932 hat Blume seine Opposition gegen das traditionelle Bild des Musikers Haydn so ausgedrückt: "Dieses Bild griindlich zu zerstören, ist eine Aufgabe der heutigen Musikwissenschaft." Ich möchte die Bedeutung der vorliegenden kleinen Untersuchung nicht überschatzen, und ich fühle mich nicht berufen, in Fragen einer bildlichen Untersuchung als Autorität aufzutreten. Aber ich wollte eine ähnliche Tendenz verfolgen. Ganz wie wenn von Haydns künstlerischer Entwicklung die Rede ist, halte ich es für richtig zu versuchen, von den all zu eingewurzelten Vorstellungen einmal abzusehen, und besonders den, wie mir scheint, recht deutlich erkennbaren Gegensitzen der Primairdarstellungen aus den füheren und spiteren Jahren nachzugehen. Ich glaube, dass wir auch in dieser Weise mit dazu beitragen können, die Nachwirkungen des "Papa Haydn"-Klischees zu bekämpfen, damit wir Haydns Musik in  ihrer Fülle und Originalität mit frischen und offenen Sinnen entgegen treten können."

In 1932 Friedrich Blume expressed his opposition to the traditional image of the musician Haydn as follows: "To destroy this image thoroughly, is a task of today's musicology. "I do not want to overestimate the importance of the present small investigation, and I do not feel called to act as an authority in questions of a visual examination. But I wanted to follow a similar trend. Just as when talking about Haydn's artistic development, I think it is right to try to ignore the all-too-entrenched ideas, and especially what I think is the clearly recognizable contrasts of the primary representations from the past and later years. I believe that in this way we can also help to combat the aftermath of the "Papa Haydn" cliché so that we can counter Haydn's music in its fullness and originality with fresh and open senses. (Translation by MinorProphet (talk))

Zur Frage der Porträtähnlichkeit der Haydn-Bildnisse Author(s): J. P. Larsen Source: Studia Musicologica Academiae Scientiarum Hungaricae, T. 12, Fasc. 1/4 (1970), pp. 153-166 in German Published by: Akadémiai Kiadó Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/901356

 * 23. And this, again, especially

It may be strange that we should consider a revaluation of composers like Bach and Handel, Mozart and Haydn, whom we seem to know so well, and of whom we mostly have a traditional, established picture. But such traditional pictures may be misleading, even harmful, since they may tend to influence the approach to the composer's music - on the performer's part as well as the listener's. Above all they can characterize the composer and his work in too limited a way which may be regarded as universally valid. Such characterizations not only may be misleading, but also are used indiscriminately in the approach to works of varying natures. Of all these general characterizations the most misleading is certainly the notorious 'Papa Haydn': it has probably done more than anything else to impede the understanding of Haydn's music. (p. 163)

He was largely treated as 'Papa Haydn' until Wyzewa, in 1909, rightly drew attention to a remarkably different, expressive spell in his development around 1770. (p. 165)

This short survey should make it clear that neither the 'Papa Haydn' cliché nor any other similar designation will suffice to give an impression of Haydn's personality as a composer. (p. 166)

Joseph Haydn Born 31 March 1732 * Died 31 May 1809. Haydn: Repertory, Interpretation, Image Author(s): Jens Peter Larsen Source: The Musical Times, Vol. 123, No. 1669 (Mar., 1982), pp. 163+165-166 Published by: Musical Times Publications Ltd. Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/961850

 * 24.

But the myth of "Papa Haydn," who could not speak any foreign language, who did not read literature, in short who did not have a general education to speak of, has been destroyed once and for all by Herbert Zeman, Georg Feder, David Schroeder, James Webster, Sisman and others.[28]

[28.] Georg Feder, "Joseph Haydn als Mensch und Musiker" in Joseph Haydn und seine Zeit, Jahrbuch fur Osterreichische Kulturgeschichte 2 (Eisenstadt, 1972); Herbert Zeman, ed., Joseph Haydn und die Literatur seiner Zeit, Jahrbuch fur Osterreichische Kulturgeschichte 6 (1976), and especially Maria Horwarthner's 'Joseph Haydns Bibliothek—Versuch einer literarhistorischen Rekonstruktion," pp. 157-207 [translat- ed in this volume]; Schroeder, Haydn and the Enlightenment-, Webster, Haydn's "Farewell" Symphony, Sisman, Haydn and the Classical Variation.

Chapter Title: Haydn as Orator: A Rhetorical Analysis of his Keyboard Sonata in D Major, HOB.XVI:42 Chapter Author: Ton Beghin Book Title: Haydn and His World Book Editor(s): Elaine Sisman Published by: Princeton University Press Stable URL: http://www.jstor.com/stable/j.ctt7rqdr.9

 * 25.

A specific genre of musical fiction seems to have grown up around Beethoven's last symphony, invoking Haydn:

Haydn is frequently invoked in ﬁctional accounts of the symphony’s genesis, as we shall see below, but there he appears as “Papa Haydn,” clearly in the role not of professional precursor but of spiritual guide and mentor. (p. 16)

Somewhat in this same vein, the Ninth gave rise to an apparently uniqueﬁctional genre, a collection of originary myths focusing on that work itself. What is remarkable about these stories—apart from the fact that they were written for adult readers and published in journals speciﬁc to the musically literate—is their reliance upon ﬁctions of divine intervention to explain the genesis of the symphony. In one, Beethoven is visited in his room by a procession of “good and evil spirits,” at one extreme Satan, who offers to aid in the composition for his usual fee—Beethoven marks crosses in his manuscript to ward him off—and at the other a benign father who “bears a remarkable resemblance to papa Haydn” and does ﬁnally prove helpful.[57] Another (also featuring Haydn prominently) hangs upon Beethoven’s temptation to the sin of despair and his rescue by the brief, miraculous restoration of his hearing; as the sounds of spring momentarily surround him, a shepherd’s pipe plays the chorale “Freu’ dich sehr,” and the idea for the great symphony is born.[58] (pp. 26-27)

[57.] “Die ‘Neunte Sinfonie’ von Beethoven: eine phantastische Deﬁnition,” Neue Musik-Zeitung 6 (1885): 105.

[58.] “Die Neunte: eine Phantasie.” Deutsche Musiker-Zeitung 20 (1889): 35–63, 47–48. This story appeared in a separate “women’s section” of the journal, a regular feature titled Mildwide: Für die Frauen, durch die Frauen. Tusa observes that this chorale tune was frequently mentioned as a source or reference for the “Ode to Joy” melody (“Noch einmal,” 116).

Chapter Title: Beethoven as Secular Humanist: Ideology and the Ninth Symphony in Nineteenth-Century Criticism Book Title: Music in Other Words Book Subtitle: Victorian Conversations Book Author(s): RUTH A. SOLIE Published by: University of California Press Stable URL: http://www.jstor.com/stable/10.1525/j.ctt1pp6qz.4

 * 26.

Beyond this, Webster's study is a major contribution to research on Haydn's character and ought to make it easier for us to rid ourselves once and for all of the 'Papa Haydn' myth and the personal - and musical connotations that lie behind it. (p. 462)

Journal Article Review: Beethoven, 1... Reviewed Work: Beethoven Essays: Studies in Honor of Elliot Forbes by L. Lockwood, P. Benjamin Review by: William Drabkin The Musical Times Vol. 126, No. 1710 (Aug., 1985), pp. 462-463 (2 pages) https://www.jstor.org/stable/964311

 * 27.

Papa Haydn; ein Jugendbuch über Joseph Haydn. Authors: Hinderks-Kutscher, Retraut. (Franckhs Musiker-Biographien fur junge Menschen.) Stuttgart: Franckh'sche Verlagshandlung, [1957]. [173, (1) p., illus., 12mo]

cited in:

Other Publications Source: Notes, Second Series, Vol. 15, No. 2 (Mar., 1958), pp. 220-244 Published by: Music Library Association Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/893099

 * 28.

More musical clichés:

"In general, there is a querulous in Mr. Barzun's criticism of Berlioz's critics, an extreme over-sensitiveness, though he has been so close to his hero, has so identified himself with him, that he has lost sight of the universality misconceptions about men of genius. the wild, temperamental, Romantic Berlioz a more distorted figure than the Papa Haydn who provided musical entertainments for the nobility, the infant prodigy Mozart who was dandled on the lap of Marie Antoinette, the libertine Schubert who scribbled pretty songs on the backs of menus, the pedant Bach who begot fugues and offspring with equal austerity? And is not this gallery even now being enlarged with caricatures of Hindemith the sewing-machine contrapuntist, Schoenberg the slide-rule formalist, and Stravinsky the retrogressive classicist?

Review Reviewed Work(s): Berlioz and the Romantic Century by Jacques Barzun Review by: Lawrence Morton Source: Notes, Second Series, Vol. 7, No. 4 (Sep., 1950), pp. 562-564 Published by: Music Library Association Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/889793

 * 29.

The image we have of Haydn, perpetuated by such platitudes as "Father of the S or SQ" and "Papa Haydn" is particularly outmoded. Only in the last 40 years have these condescending appellations begun to be challenged by eg Larsen, Botstein, Webster, Sisman et al. Part of the difficulty is that H wrote so much - even the acknowledged experts such as Hoboken and Robbins Landon were dismayed by the enormity of the task of even listing and describing each work. REF PLS More and more documentary evidence has appeared since the 1950s: for example: (MinorProphet (talk))

"The premium that early Romantics such as Jean Paul and Wackenroder placed on instrumental music, similar to the approach to the instrumental music of Beethoven evident in E.T. A. Hoffmann, was based on a normative expectation of what the impact of music ideally ought to be. (p. 255)

Although "music as experience" retained its prestige with particular composers and sectors of the public, later in the century the emphasis shifted to an allegiance to music as text, to the printed score, which became analogous to a book that might be sampled, read, studied, and returned to at will. The character of this approach to music demanded of the listener and amateur a self-conscious awareness of history, tradition, and precedent. An attitude towards music as a mirror of the historical moment, representative of the generation of Eduard Hanslick and Johannes Brahms, was not uppermost in the early Romantic enthusiasm for music.

Despite such shifts in fundamental expectations and norms of reception over the nineteenth century, the critical response to Haydn's music—whether understood as a performed event or as a text to be studied and re-read—did not change. The significant disputes during the nineteenth century involving musical taste and culture altered the view of Bach, Mozart, and Beethoven, but not the understanding of Haydn. In the case of no other major composer was there as little evolution, so much consistency, so little genuine shift in aesthetic judgment and response. And until quite recently, this static and recalcitrant nineteenth-century perception seemed to have left an indelible mark on twentieth-century assessments of Haydn as well. (p. 255-6)

Aha! ETA Hoffmann, Schumann, and Hanslick are to blame:

"In comments made in 1839, Schumann hailed "Altvater" Haydn as welcome relief from "this chronically diseased era of music," in which one only rarely could be "inwardly satisfied." Haydn, whose music offered satisfaction because of its conservative integrity, provided relief from a painful awareness of inadequacy by being "clear as sunlight. . . bereft of any sense of ennui with life, and inspiring nothing except for joy, love of life, and a childlike happiness about everything. . ." (p. 258)"

Review by Hanslick of a concert:

"One began as usual with Haydn, the father of the quartet, a praiseworthy custom, so long as one does not neglect the sons in relation to the father. The representation of the old master with two works in a cycle of six evenings is entirely sufficient." [...] "It is revealing that one always refers to "a Haydn quartet" whereas one is precise with regard to the specific work one is talking about in the case of Beethoven. It is important for the hearer of Beethoven which of the series of Beethoven quartets he wishes to hear, because they are all distinctly individual, which is not the case with Haydn. (p. 259)

Nonetheless, for both pro- and anti-Wagnerians, the underlying expectation remained the same: music was supposed to be capable of inspiring and commanding the interior of one's soul, and Haydn's music failed to do so, whereas Bach's and Mozart's, not to speak of Beethoven's, did. (p. 261)

Haydn as a "personality" in the nineteeth-century sense was nowhere to be found: he had transcended the mundane and the purely human by writing himself out of his own music. He invented music as a formal, abstract enterprise—without however developing its capacity to be profound and therefore transcend conventional morality. Neither Wagnerians nor anti-Wagnerians seemed to need to delve beyond this position. (p. 262)

This late-nineteenth-century consensus regarding Haydn seemed so all-pervasive that it motivated Hermann Kretzschmar to weigh in with a long dissent about the composer's profundity and emotional depth. In the introduction to his discussion of the Haydn symphonies in his classic guide to the concert repertoire, Führer durch den Konzertsaal, he took issue with the conventional view. "An astonishingly large number of music lovers and musicians, including names possessed of the most celebrated reputations, believe that they can honor 'Papa' Haydn with a mixture of condescension by considering him 'genial' and 'childlike'. . ."

To understand Haydn, Kretzschmar believed, one had to concentrate on how he transformed the mundane and rendered his material majestic and mythic. In Kretzschmar's view, Haydn should be compared to Aeschylus and Sophocles. Like the great Greek tragedians, he transformed the simple into the profound. Indeed, Kretzschmar's association of Haydn with Aeschylus and Sophocles was a rare perception. (pp 262-3)

Why, then, did the nineteenth century consistently define Haydn's compositional mastery in terms of simplicity, humor, cheerfulness, geniality, folksiness, order—all implying an absence of passion and a lack of emotional, narrative, and psychic relevance? (p. 265)

The cultural conservatives of the 1840s and 1850s failed to realize that in rescuing the formal part of the eighteenth-century musical tradition, they were abandoning the philosophical ambitions from which it had sprung. In order to rethink Haydn, the stubborn veneer of nineteenth-century habits of reception, which have extended well into this century, must be dissolved and scraped away. When we try to understand Haydn from the perspective of the eighteenth century rather than the nineteenth, we rapidly realize that Haydn's music carried for its listeners and contemporaries gravity, philosophical depth, passion, and complex beauty. His formal achievements, celebrated as such by nineteenth-century criticism, engendered in his own lifetime precisely that emotionally intense response later enerations considered somehow missing.[59] And this means, of course, that formal achievements—as Haydn himself did not fail to point out—were never only what Haydn was about. (p. 281)

Chapter Title: The Demise of Philosophical Listening: Haydn in the 19th Century Chapter Author(s): Leon Botstein Book Title: Haydn and His World Book Editor(s): Elaine Sisman Published by: Princeton University Press 1997 Stable URL: http://www.jstor.com/stable/j.ctt7rqdr.10

 * 30.

It is equally absurd to be always talking of "Papa" Haydn, as if from the first he had played the part of a father in the classical movement. On the contrary, he was, as I have said, a seeker, an experimenter, who had still to clarify his own position and attain the culmination of his own creative powers.

Haydn and the Viennese Classical School Author(s): Guido Adler and W. Oliver Strunk Source: The Musical Quarterly, Vol. 18, No. 2 (Apr., 1932), pp. 191-207 Published by: Oxford University Press Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/738732

 * 31.

Cadences are successions of chords so chosen and arranged that a key appears to be set off from those it most resembles, and that its fundamental tone is significantly strengthened by being placed at the end. But if the cadence were really a definite means to establish a key, we would not find, in the midst of a piece of music, cadences to various keys or degrees, the so-called modulations. And the classicists would not have been obliged to add many such cadences together if their feeling for form had not indicated that a key is not definitely established through a cadence. Therefore the familiar endings, consisting of a number of cadences of various combinations are often further extended through repeated successions of V-I, and concluding in several repetitions of I. Thus "the last prevails," a method of procedure which Wagner, as is known, ironically characterized as grandfatherly in "Papa Haydn." NB Where does he say this? But unjustly so; for Haydn knew how difficult it is to set up a key definitely and how necessary such persistent emphasis was for apperception by his audience. (p. 9)

Problems of Harmony Author(s): Arnold Schönberg tr. Adolph Weiss Source: Perspectives of New Music, Vol. 11, No. 2 (Spring - Summer, 1973), pp. 3-23 Published by: Perspectives of New Music Stable URL: https://www.jstor.org/stable/832310

 * 32.

Aha! Hanslick was a fan of Berlioz, who hated Haydn (p. 46) (See above no. 6.)

Proksch says that Hanslick mostly just reiterated old ideas about H's "childlike simplicity". "neatly framed glimpse into how Haydn's music was revered to the point of irrelelevance (p. 46)

Hanslick reviewing a concert: "One began as usual with Haydn, the father of the quartet, a praiseworthy custom, so long as one does not neglect the sons in relation to the father."(p. 46)

"The fundamental paradox with which Hanslick grappled was the idea that H. was a necessary part of the Vienniese tradition whose music sounded so different that it was impossible to include him as a part of that tradition. The end result was that Hanslick set H. apart in music history using the idea of a "Haydn era" (Haydn'schen Periode). This "Haydn era" is clearly a historical locale with a popullation of one." (LOL) (p. 47)

"However, it is telling that later writers [than Pohl] more consistently chose to go back to the earliest biographers of H. - the quasi-interviews by Griesinger and Dies - when searching for a quotation, relating the more human side of the person, or attempting to discern the inner workings of the mind." (p. 59)

Reviving Haydn: New Appreciations in the Twentieth Century Volume 124 of Eastman studies in music, ISSN 1071-9989 Author	Bryan Proksch Publisher	Boydell & Brewer, 2015 9781580465120

"Papa Haydn". It's like a nervous tic: everyone says it, everyone has to say it, it's an inescapable 'truism': but as Symphony No. 7 (Beethoven) shows, Weber never said that "Beethoven was ripe for the madhouse", it was an invention by Schindler. Same for "Papa Haydn" - I suggest no serious informed musician ever said and meant it. In the end, this endlessly clichéd phrase simply infantilises any significant approach towards a mature appreciation of one of the more profound and dedicated musicians who ever lived. Anyone for tennis? MinorProphet (talk) 03:40, 2 August 2023 (UTC)

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Thanks for uploading Image:Lekh Ram.jpg. I notice the image page currently doesn't specify who created the image, so the copyright status is therefore unclear. If you have not created the image yourself then you need to argue that we have the right to use the image on Wikipedia (see copyright tagging below). If you have not created the image yourself then you should also specify where you found it, i.e., in most cases link to the website where you got it, and the terms of use for content from that page.

If the image also doesn't have a copyright tag then you must also add one. If you created/took the picture then you can use GFDL to release it under the GFDL. If you can claim fair use use or fairuse. See Image copyright tags for the full list of copyright tags that you can use.

If you have uploaded other images, please check that you have specified their source and copyright tagged them, too. You can find a list of image pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Wikipedia page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that any unsourced and untagged images will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. ~MDD4696 04:59, 7 January 2006 (UTC)

Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's article needs cleaning up
mubasher: the article on Mirza Ghulam Ahmad needs a number of changes. (1) there are a number of factual errors (2) there are many statements with a unilateral POV (3) many subjects are dealt with in far too much detail for an encylopaedia article (4) the information needs to be referenced so it can be verified. I have been working on Ahmadi, Ahmadiyya Muslim Community and Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement which suffered from similar problems. I hope to start work on Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's article next. Since you have been a long time contributor to his article I would appreciate any help from your end. Nazli 18:08, 24 March 2006 (UTC)

Your reversion of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad
The old version is loaded with pov statements and has many factual errors. If you feel some of the old material is important please incorporate it into the new version or alternatively modify the old version so it is more suited as a wiki article. Reverting back to a version with a neutrality dispute is counter productive. Thank you. Nazli 03:50, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

Spiritual affiliation
Thank you for making a constructive contribution to Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's article. I have modified your contribution to remove POV statements and some superfluous material. As far as my spiritual affiliation is concerned it is irrelevant. Thank you and best regards. Nazli 08:32, 7 April 2006 (UTC)

Neutral Point of View
Hi Mubasher, after running across some of your recent edits to various Wikipedia articles (mostly related to the Ahmadiyya religious movement), I thought that you might benefit from reading over Wikipedia's neutral point of view policy. This policy is one of the most important policies on Wikipedia and basically states that Wikipedia articles must be written in such a way that they do not adhere to a single point of view, but rather present all points of view in a neutral and fair manner. Please keep this policy in mind as you continue to contribute to Wikipedia. Let me know if you have any questions or concerns that I might be able to address. Kaldari 04:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

Join us at FB
Hello Pakistanis Wikipedians! Assalam-o-Alaikum, I hope you are enjoying editing Wikipedia and helping around. I want to join every Pakistani Wikipedian on facebook so I hope you would like to join us in our community. We would/could help each other and make Pakistani articles more better.

Join us:
 * Group: Pakistani Wikipedians
 * Page: Pakistani Wikipedians

And then sign my guestbook for memories.

Regards: --  Captain Wikipedia!     ( T - C  - G  ) 06:47, 19 November 2012 (UTC)

Wiki Loves Monuments - Pakistan

'''Hi !

Wiki Loves Monuments, the world's largest photography competition, will be taking place in Pakistan this September. The competition is all about capturing the cultural monuments and heritage sites of Pakistan and uploading these images on Commons to create an online repository which will be freely available to all.

Start taking photos of the sites enlisted here and upload them in September to be eligible for national and international prizes.

Email: contact@wikilovesmonuments.pk Official website: wikilovesmonuments.pk Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/WikiLovesMonumentsPK Posted by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 22:10, 8 June 2014 (UTC) on behalf of WikiProject Pakistan

Pakistani Cultural Heritage - Edit Drive
Hi !

Wikimedia Community User Group Pakistan is organizing an edit drive for Pakistani Wikipedians on Pakistani Cultural Heritage throughout the month of July. Top three contributors will be given a gift pack containing Wikipedia merchandise.

You can read the event details here. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 11:14, 1 July 2014 (UTC) You are receiving this message as a member of WikiProject Pakistan

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Mubasher


text:
State Security

State Security may refer to:
 * general concepts of security agency, national security, or secret police

Active intelligence agencies

 * State Security Service (Belgium)
 * State Security Service (Latvia)
 * Lebanese State Security
 * State Security Department of Lithuania
 * State Security Service (Nigeria)
 * Presidency of State Security, Saudi Arabia
 * State Security Agency (South Africa)

Defunct intelligence agencies

 * State Security (Czechoslovakia)
 * Stasi, or Ministry for State Security in the former German Democratic Republic
 * State Security Investigations Service, Egypt
 * Bureau of State Security, South Africa
 * State Security Council, former intelligence coordinating organ in South Africa
 * State Security Administration (Yugoslavia)

Other governmental agencies

 * State Security Administration (Ukraine)

title: State Security


text:
River Ver

The Ver is a 28 km long chalk stream in Hertfordshire, England. It is a tributary of the River Colne.

Course
The source is in the grounds of Lynch Lodge, Kensworth Lynch on the west side of the A5 trunk road and stays on the west side for some half mile or so. It then crosses through a culvert into Markyate Cell, afterwards crosses under the A5 in culvert and runs through Markyate. The river exits above ground at the southern end of Markyate, and on through Flamstead, Redbourn, St Albans and Park Street, finally joining the River Colne at Bricket Wood.

The Ver is a chalk stream, which is partly a seasonal winterbourne north of Redbourn. However, many of its natural features have been compromised as a result of being canalised during the construction of the artificial lakes at Verulamium Park in St Albans in the 1930s following the archaeological excavations of Verulamium by Sir Mortimer Wheeler and his wife Tessa. During the 1960s and 1970s it suffered serious problems as a result of water extraction upstream. Although these abated temporarily after the closure of one of the pumping stations, the upstream part of the river dries up completely during the summer, and the rest of the river may suffer the same fate within a few years; compared to the current situation with the "great flow of water" that was reported to exist in 1885, with a depth of 12 ft at Dolittle Mill on the Redbourn Road. In 2004 a proposal for remedial work was being developed for the St Albans lakes.

Notable buildings
The Romans built the city of Verulamium alongside the Ver at a time when it was navigable, expressing their preference for building in valleys rather than on hills.

The bridge in St Michael's Street, adjacent to Kingsbury Mill, dates from 1765 and is believed to be the oldest extant bridge in Hertfordshire. It is Grade II listed. According to a contemporary account of the Second Battle of St Albans in 1461, another bridge existed on this site previously (recorded in 1505 as Pons de la Maltemyll - Malt Mill Bridge). It is thought that the Romans had built a bridge here by the 3rd century AD. The ford alongside the current bridge, which is known to have existed for 2,000 years and is traditionally believed to be Alban's crossing point on his way to his execution, was substantially restored in 2001 by local residents' associations.

Ye Olde Fighting Cocks public house in St Albans, which claims to be the oldest pub in England, was moved in the early 1600s to the side of the Ver next to the Abbey Mill at the bottom of the Abbey Orchard, and remains in this location today.

Industry
The river south of Redbourn has been the site of several watermills down the centuries, mainly for grinding corn but also put to such diverse uses as paper making, fulling cloth, silk spinning and diamond lapping. Eleven mills are known to have existed, of which a number can still be seen today, either as mills (working or otherwise), or converted (for example into private homes or parts of public houses). Particularly worthy of note are:

 * Dolittle Mill. Closed in 1927 and since demolished. It is reputed to have been the site of a miracle. The early 15th century chronicler Thomas Walsingham, a monk at St Albans Abbey, records that a child fell into the mill race and was thrown out by the wheel, apparently dead. The child's mother prayed to Saint Alban, offering money if the child's life were restored, and her prayer was answered.

 * Redbournbury Mill, between Redbourn and St Albans. A recently restored flour mill, still producing flour commercially, is periodically open to the public. However, these days it is powered by a vintage Crossley diesel engine. It is a Grade II* listed building.

 * Kingsbury Watermill. A 16th century mill in St Albans which was previously a malt mill belonging to St Albans Abbey. Its origins are known to go back to at least 1194; indeed, it may be one of the three mills in St Albans recorded in the Domesday Book (1086). Today it is restored and open as a museum. It is another Grade II* listed building.

 * Moor Mill, in Smug Oak Lane, Bricket Wood. Now a public house and conference centre. The water wheel and other workings can still be seen inside during normal opening hours.

 * Shafford Mill, a 19th century mill on the Redbourn Road, is now a private house. It is a Grade II listed building.

Disused watercress beds can be seen at various points along the river's length (most notably in the unspoilt stretch between Redbourn and St Albans): the entire Ver valley was a national centre for the watercress growing industry. The poplar and willow plantations around Pre Mill and the former Pre Hotel on the A5183 (just west of St Albans on the edge of the Gorhambury Estate), which are a significant feature of the landscape, indicate a more modern industry: that of cricket bat manufacturing.

Water quality
The Environment Agency measure water quality of the river systems in England. Each is given an overall ecological status, which may be one of five levels: high, good, moderate, poor and bad. There are several components that are used to determine this, including biological status, which looks at the quantity and varieties of invertebrates, angiosperms and fish. Chemical status, which compares the concentrations of various chemicals against known safe concentrations, is rated good or fail.

Water quality of the River Ver in 2019:

title: River Ver


text:
Sleeping Beauty Castle

Sleeping Beauty Castle is a fairy tale castle at the center of Disneyland and formerly at Hong Kong Disneyland. It is based on the late 19th century Neuschwanstein Castle in Bavaria, Germany. It appeared in the Walt Disney Pictures logos from 1985 to 2006 before being merged with Cinderella Castle, both familiar symbols of The Walt Disney Company. The version at Disneyland is the only Disney castle whose construction was overseen by Walt Disney.

A redesigned and larger version of the castle is used as the symbol of Disneyland Paris.

Disneyland

Opened July 17, 1955, the castle is the oldest of all Disney castles. Though it reaches a height of 77 ft, it was designed by Roland E. Hill to appear taller through the forced perspective technique; design elements are larger at the foundation and smaller at the turrets. The castle initially featured an empty upper level that was never intended to house an attraction, but Walt Disney was not satisfied with what he viewed as wasted space, and challenged his Imagineers to find some use for the space.

Beginning on April 29, 1957, the visitors were able to walk through the castle and view several dioramas depicting the story of Sleeping Beauty. The voice of Jiminy Cricket from Walt Disney's Pinocchio (1940) singing "When You Wish Upon a Star" is piped into the castle. The original dioramas were designed in the style of Eyvind Earle, production designer for Disney's 1959 film Sleeping Beauty (released nearly four years after the Disneyland Sleeping Beauty Castle was opened), and were then redone in 1977 to resemble the window displays on Main Street, U.S.A. The walkthrough was closed for unspecified reasons on October 7, 2001; popular belief claims the September 11th attacks and the potential danger that ensued played a major factor in the closing. Disney spokesman John McClintock said that the 9–11 attacks rumors weren't true. "I am aware of those rumors," he said. "But in 2001, it really wasn't resonating with guests. In the late 90s, early 2000s, arguably the most popular thing about Sleeping Beauty was that you could always get in because nobody went to it."

On July 17, 2008, Disney announced that the Sleeping Beauty Castle walkthrough would reopen in the style of the original Earle dioramas, enhanced with new technology not available in 1957. The walkthrough reopened on November 27, 2008 at 5:00 p.m., drawing long lines going as far back as the Hub at the center of the park. Unlike previous incarnations, visitors who are unable to climb stairs or navigate the passageways of the Castle can still experience the walkthrough "virtually" in a special room on the Castle's ground floor. This room is lavishly themed, and presents the closed-captioned CGI walkthrough recreation on a high-definition TV. This same virtual recreation is included on the Sleeping Beauty  50th Anniversary Platinum Edition DVD.

The castle walkthrough entrance is on the west side of the building inside Fantasyland. Guests first see a large medieval-themed story book open to a page that announces the birth of the princess Aurora. After climbing the stairs inside, a scene depicts Aurora as a baby, being blessed with magic gifts by her fairy godmothers. Behind a glass window, there is an animation of the castle courtyard, and the king and queen watching as a large fire burns all the spinning wheels in the kingdom. At the top of the stairs, as guests reach the center of the castle's top level, another window looks out on the castle's great hall, where everyone in the kingdom is asleep, including servants and the cat and dog. The second half of the walkthrough becomes darker, featuring appearances by Maleficent, her crow, and several gargoyles which fly out of her nearby castle. At the end, the prince fights against Maleficent's incarnation as a dragon, amid a forest of thorny brambles, and then a field of roses appears with doves flying above, as he kisses Aurora and breaks the spell. As guests exit the walkthrough at the bottom of the stairs on the east side of the castle, another medieval-themed oversized book depicts an image of the prince and princess dancing together, as her dress changes colors from pink to blue and back again.

The Disney family coat of arms hangs above the archway to the castle. It is composed of three lions passant in pale. It is known that the coat of arms was not originally on the castle, but was placed there sometime between June 1965 and July 1965.

At the rear of the castle, shaded by the archways and driven into the ground is a gold spike that is widely, but wrongly, believed to mark the geographical center of Disneyland. In reality, the spike is a surveyor's mark that was used to ensure that the castle bridge and entrance lined up with Main Street USA when the park was first constructed. The original geographical center of the Magic Kingdom was in the middle of the round park, where the "Partners" statue of Walt Disney and Mickey Mouse stands. The addition of Mickey's Toontown in 1993 moved the actual center of the park a few yards northward, but still on the hub side of the castle drawbridge.

In January 2019, renovations on Sleeping Beauty Castle began in Disneyland. The entrance to Fantasyland was blocked through the archway of the castle during this refurbishment.

Fiftieth anniversary
In celebration of Disneyland's 50th anniversary, both Sleeping Beauty and Cinderella Castle received makeovers. In Disneyland, the castle was repainted and five turrets were decorated with stylized crowns, each representing a decade in the park's history: The gold swirly railings were also added into the second floor of the castle for the safety of imagineers and pyrotechnics workers. They were removed after 10 years and replaced with hidden railings that move up only when needed.
 * The creation of Disneyland is represented by a pair of famous "Ears" peeking up over the horizon to see the wonders to come.
 * "A World on the Move", otherwise known as the "New Tomorrowland" of 1967, is represented by rocket ships and accented by opalescent planets.
 * The Blue Fairy represents the debut of the Main Street Electrical Parade (which was running at California Adventure at that time).
 * The Indiana Jones Adventure is represented by the evil Eye of Mara, guarded by snakes.
 * The 50th Anniversary of Disneyland is represented by fireworks and Tinker Bell.

Sixtieth anniversary
For Disneyland's 60th anniversary, World of Color changed to the ''World of Color: Celebrate! The Wonderful World of Walt Disney''. Disneyland introduced Paint The Night and a new fireworks show, "Disneyland Forever". A 24-hour kickoff event occurred May 22, 2015.

As part of the celebration, the castle was covered with diamonds and glitter, with a large 60th logo in the center. Carthay Circle Restaurant at Disney California Adventure was also decorated for the Diamond Celebration. Most of the decoration on the castle was removed shortly after the celebration, although the decorative faux roofs remained until January 2018, as the original roofs underneath the decorations got damaged during the celebration.

100 Years Of Wonder
For Disney's Centennial Jubliee, Disneyland introduced a new fireworks show, "Wondrous Journeys".

As part of the celebration, the castle was covered with sliver and glitter, with a large 100th logo in the center. Fountains were also installed in the moat in front of the castle.

On October 14, 2023, most of the decoration was removed, while the last large one, the 100th logo, was removed on November 10th.

As of March 2024, the fountains remain in the moat.

Disneyland Park (Paris)

Sleeping Beauty Castle (English for Le Château de la Belle au Bois Dormant) is at the centre of Disneyland Park and a continuation of Sleeping Beauty Castle first seen at Disneyland in California.

The Castle features two parts, a dungeon area in the base featuring an Audio-Animatronic dragon and, above, a concrete balcony walkthrough area with Sleeping Beauty–themed stained glass windows and tapestries. There are also several shops selling glass figures, ornaments and gifts.

The castle has received several overlays throughout the years. The first occurred during the park's first anniversary celebration in 1993, when the castle was dressed up as a cake complete with strawberries, icing and candles. This overlay was removed after the celebration ended. The cake overlay concept was later copied by Walt Disney World's Cinderella Castle in 1996 for the 25th Anniversary of the resort.

During the fifth anniversary of Disneyland Paris in 1997, the castle was decorated in carnival masks, jester hats, frills and bells to promote the animated film The Hunchback of Notre Dame. This overlay lasted until the beginning of 1998.

During the tenth anniversary of Disneyland Paris in 2002, the front of the castle was fitted with a golden scroll displaying a large 10. The celebration also saw the opening of Walt Disney Studios next door. The scroll and other anniversary material in the park were removed in 2003.

In 2007, the castle received another overlay, celebrating the park's fifteenth anniversary. It featured golden Disney characters displayed on the turrets and spires, each holding a candle, and Tinkerbell on the highest spire. The candles were illuminated each night during a special 'Candlebration' ceremony which took place on a raised temporary stage at Central Plaza, in front of the Castle. A huge illuminated gold plaque featuring a large '15' was hung on the front of the castle. This echoed the overlay from the tenth anniversary in 2002. The fifteenth anniversary and the 'Candlebration' ceremony ended on March 7, 2009.

The fifteenth anniversary overlay quickly followed on April 4, 2009 by Mickey's Magical Party, a "theme year" celebration held at the park. The castle was again overlaid, this time with a Mickey and Friends plaque over the main window, and the spire heads were changed from being characters to being 3 circles "of ribbon" representing Mickey Mouse. A more permanent Central Plaza stage was built outside the castle to host the "It's dance time... with Mickey and Friends" show.

The castle was repainted in a new colour-scheme, restored and fitted with multicolored LED lighting during 2011. For the Disney Dreams nighttime spectacular show its moat was fitted with water fountains, the upper window was replaced by doors that open to reveal a LED lighted star and Central Plaza stage was removed in order to increase the viewing area.

Hong Kong Disneyland
Hong Kong's Sleeping Beauty Castle was a nearly identical copy of the original in California. However, the two castles were differentiated through very subtle details. Hong Kong Disneyland used a different color scheme compared to that of Disneyland, with more natural white and pink colours for the accents and cornice. It also had fewer trees surrounding its castle, which allowed a more open view to accompany the nightly fireworks show.

The castle closed on January 1, 2018 for a redesign as part of the park's 15th anniversary celebration. This redesign is meant to pay tribute to 14 Disney princesses and heroines. It has been renamed Castle of Magical Dreams.

During the 5th Anniversary
In celebration of Hong Kong Disneyland's fifth anniversary, Celebration in the Air, the castle was transformed into Tinker Bell's Pixie Dusted Castle. The castle was decorated with golden pixie dust, which sparkled and shimmered in the sun and was illuminated by night.

During the 10th Anniversary
Although no significant decorations were added to Hong Kong Disneyland's Sleeping Beauty Castle for the park's 10th anniversary, the nightly "Disney In The Stars" fireworks show was added with elaborate projection mapping with visuals to complement the display. This, however, resulted in the elimination of a few pyrotechnic elements launched from the front of the castle during the show.

Logo usage
As Sleeping Beauty Castle is a Disney icon, it was used in the opening of the Walt Disney anthology television series from the show's beginning in 1954 until the late 70s, when it was replaced by the Cinderella Castle. It was also the logo of Walt Disney Pictures, Walt Disney Television, Disney Music Group and Walt Disney Studios Motion Pictures from 1985–2006. As of Pirates of the Caribbean: Dead Man's Chest in 2006, the logo is now 3D CGI and includes elements of both this castle and Cinderella Castle.

title: Sleeping Beauty Castle