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User talk:Itschris

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~ ~ ~. Four tildes (~ ~ ) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome! - UtherSRG 23:23, Dec 18, 2004 (UTC)
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Disambiguation link fixing one-day contest
I have decided to put on a mini-contest within the November 2013 monthly disambiguation contest, on Saturday, November 23 (UTC). I will personally give a $20 Amazon.com gift card to the disambiguator who fixes the most links on that server-day (see the project page for details on scoring points). Since we are not geared up to do an automated count for that day, at 00:00, 23 November 2013 (UTC) (which is 7:00 PM on November 22, EST), I'll take a screenshot of the project page leaderboard. I will presume that anyone who is not already listed on the leaderboard has precisely nine edits. At 01:00, 24 November 2013 (UTC) (8:00 PM on November 23, EST), I'll take a screenshot of the leaderboard at that time (the extra hour is to give the board time to update), and I will determine from that who our winner is. I will credit links fixed by turning a WP:DABCONCEPT page into an article, but you'll have to let me know me that you did so. Here's to a fun contest. Note that according to the Daily Disambig, we currently have under 256,000 disambiguation links to be fixed. If everyone in the disambiguation link fixers category were to fix 500 links, we would have them all done - so aim high! Cheers! bd2412 T 02:31, 18 November 2013 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 12:53, 23 November 2015 (UTC)

title: User talk:Itschris


text:
Turtle Mountain (electoral district)

Turtle Mountain is a provincial electoral district in the Canadian province of Manitoba. It was created with the westward expansion of the province's boundaries in 1881, eliminated by redistribution in 1968, and re-established in 1979, formally returned to the electoral map with the provincial election of 1981, was dissolved for the 2011 election and returned once again for the 2019 Manitoba general election.

Turtle Mountain is located in the southwestern region of the province. It is bounded to the north by Ste. Rose, to the west by Minnedosa and Arthur-Virden, to the east by Pembina, Carman and Portage la Prairie, and south to the American state of North Dakota.

The riding is primarily rural. Communities in the riding included Killarney, Carberry, Glenboro, Pilot Mound and MacGregor.

The riding's population in 1996 was 18,569. In 1999, the average family income was $43,265, and the unemployment rate was 3.50%. Agriculture accounted for 37% of all industry in the riding, followed by health and social service work at 9%. Thirteen per cent of the riding's residents were German.

Turtle Mountain has been represented by the Progressive Conservative Party for most of its history, and is considered safe for that party. It was in Tory hands for all but six years after 1922 in its first incarnation, and has been held by the Tories at all times in its third incarnation. The MLA prior to the 2019 Manitoba general election was Cliff Cullen, who was elected in a 2004 by-election.

Following the 2008 electoral redistribution, the riding was dissolved into the new ridings of Agassiz, Midland, and Spruce Woods. This change took effect for the 2011 election. Cullen transferred to Spruce Woods.

Following the 2018 redistribution, Turtle Mountain will be re-created out of Arthur-Virden, Spruce Woods and Midland and will first be contested in the 2019 Manitoba general election. The riding will contain the municipalities of Two Borders, Melita, Grassland, Brenda-Waskada, Deloraine-Winchester, Boissevain-Morton (previously in Arthur-Virden), Prairie Lakes, Killarney - Turtle Mountain, Argyle, Cartwright-Roblin (previously in Spruce Woods) and Lorne, Swan Lake 7, Louise and Pembina (previously in Midland). As of the 2016 Census, 8,294 (36%) people were in the Arthur-Virden portion of the riding, 7,215 (31%) were in the Spruce Woods portion and 7,653 (33%) were in the Midland portion, for a total population of 23,612.

The riding is named for Turtle Mountain Provincial Park.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Turtle Mountain (electoral district)


text:
Huun-Huur-Tu

Huun-Huur-Tu (Хүн Хүртү ; Хуун-Хуур-Ту ) are a music group from Tuva, a Russian federative republic situated on the Mongolia–Russia border. Their music includes throat singing, in which the singers sing both a note and its overtones, thus producing two or three notes simultaneously. The overtone may sound like a flute, whistle or bird, but is solely a product of the human voice.

The group primarily use native Tuvan instruments such as the igil, khomus (Tuvan jaw harp), doshpuluur, and dünggür (shaman drum). However, in recent years, the group have begun to selectively incorporate Western instruments, such as the guitar. While the thrust of Huun-Huur-Tu's music is fundamentally indigenous Tuvan folk music, they also experiment with incorporating Western instruments and electronic music.

History
The khöömei quartet Kunggurtug (Куңгуртуг, ) was founded in 1992 by Kaigal-ool Khovalyg, brothers Alexander and Sayan Bapa, and Albert Kuvezin. Not long afterwards, the group changed its name to Huun-Huur-Tu, meaning "sunbeams" (literally "sun propeller"). The focus of their music was traditional Tuvan folk songs, frequently featuring imagery of the Tuvan steppe or of horses.

The ensemble released its first album, 60 Horses In My Herd, the following year. The album was recorded at studios in London and Mill Valley, California. By the time recording began for the follow-up, Kuvezin had left the group to form the more rock-oriented Yat-Kha. Kuvezin was replaced by Anatoli Kuular, who had previously worked with Khovalyg and Kongar-ool Ondar as part of the Tuva Ensemble. The new line-up recorded The Orphan's Lament in New York City and Moscow, and released it in 1994.

In 1995, Alexander Bapa, who had produced the first two albums, departed the group to pursue production as a full-time career. He was replaced by Alexei Saryglar, formerly a member of the Russian state ensemble Siberian Souvenir. A third album, If I'd Been Born An Eagle, recorded in the Netherlands, followed in 1997. In early 1999, the group released its fourth album, Where Young Grass Grows.

Huun-Huur-Tu participated in the 2000 BBC Music Live event. The following year, the group released their first live album.

In 2003, Kuular quit the group and was replaced by Andrey Mongush, an experienced teacher of khöömei and Tuvan instruments. Mongush's tenure with the group was short and in 2005 he was replaced by Radik Tülüsh, formerly of Yat-Kha fame.

Huun-Huur-Tu signed with Beijing management company Stallion Era in March 2015.

Collaboration
Since the group's inception, Huun Huur Tu has collaborated with musicians from many genres, such as Frank Zappa, Johnny "Guitar" Watson, the Kodo drummers, The Moscow Art Trio, the Kronos Quartet, The Chieftains and Bulgarian women's singing group, Angelite. Their recording "Eternal" is a collaborative effort with underground electronic musician, Carmen Rizzo. Huun Huur Tu appeared on three songs on Bahamut, the debut of New York-based blues group Hazmat Modine. In January 2010, Hazmat Modine also announced plans to record with Huun Huur Tu again.

In popular culture
Huun-Huur-Tus Radik Tyulyush song "Oskus Urug" was featured in the American television series Fargos third-season episode "The Law of Vacant Places"   and "Prayer" from the 1994 album The Orphan's Lament was featured in fifth-season episode "The Paradox of Intermediate Transactions". In 2001, several of Huun Hur Tu's songs were featured on the soundtrack of Atanarjuat: The Fast Runner, a 2001 Cannes Winner.

Recordings
Solo releases
 * 60 Horses In My Herd (1993)
 * The Orphan's Lament (1994)
 * If I'd Been Born An Eagle (1997)
 * Where Young Grass Grows (1999)
 * Live 1 [also known as Best * Live] (2001)
 * Live 2 (2001)
 * More Live (2003)
 * Ancestors Call (2010)

With The Bulgarian Voices - Angelite & Sergey Starostin:

 * Fly, Fly My Sadness (1996)

With The Bulgarian Voices - Angelite & Moscow Art Trio:

 * Mountain Tale (1998)
 * Legend (2010)

With various electronic artists (remixes):
 * Spirits from Tuva (2002 & 2003)

With Malerija (remix album):
 *  Huun-huur-tu Malerija (2002)

With Samsonov:
 * Altai Sayan Tandy-Uula (2004)

With Sainkho Namtchylak:
 * Mother-Earth! Father-Sky! (2008)

With Carmen Rizzo:
 * Eternal (2009)
 * Koshkyn (EP, 2018)

With Vladimir Martynov (chamber orchestra Opus Posth, singer Mikhail Stepanitch & choir Mlada):
 * Children of the Otter (2009)

Collaborations:

With Marcel Vanthilt:
 * I Shoot Dikke Jo single (1995)

With Kronos Quartet: 18.	"Uleg-Khem"	Trad. Tuvan arr. Steve Mackey	(3:15)
 * Early Music (Lachrymae Antiquae) (1997)

With Hazmat Modine:
 * Bahamut (2007)

2. "It Calls Me" (Featuring Huun-Huur-Tu)	Schuman	(3:10)

8. "Everybody Loves You" (Featuring Huun-Huur-Tu)	Schuman	(6:16)

14. "Man Trouble" (Featuring Huun-Huur-Tu)	Jaybird Coleman / Traditional	(11:11)

With Ross Daly:
 * The White Dragon - Alive (2008)

title: Huun-Huur-Tu


text:
Talk:BMW New Six

I'd query whether the New Sixes were an ancestor to the 5-series: they ran concurrently for many years and the New Six models only disappeared when the 6- and 7-series were launched. The 5s may be thought of as an intermediate series that had no direct ancestor IMO. Stombs 23:25, Dec 18, 2004 (UTC)

 * You're probably right. BMW World made the claim, but it looks wrong.  On the other hand, the BMW New Class models are clearly the spiritual ancestors of the SFoskett 04:41, Dec 20, 2004 (UTC)

 * As I've indicated in Template:BMW cars, I've always thought the New Class can be divided neatly into the 4-door models (2000 etc.) which foreshadowed the 5-series and the 2-door cars (2002 etc.) which were succeeded by the 3-series. The dates of the introductions of the 3, 5 and 7 series supports this. -- Hotlorp 16:41, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I think it would be wrong to call the E3 an ancestor to the 5-series, as the 5-series arrived in 1972, and the E3 went out of production in 1977, when it was actually replaced by the e23, the first 7-series. It's not ancestor to the 5-series, as it was made to compete with Mercedes-Benz S-class. The 5-series was made to compete with Mercedes-Benz W114-sedans. The long wheelbase version of E3 also supports this, as only the big luxury sedans were available with that option. 83.108.108.137 (talk) 17:24, 30 July 2010 (UTC)

Why is this page separate from the BMW 3.0 page? I don't think there's a justification for separating on engine size for this car. The reunited page should probably be called BMW E3/E9 (E3 is the BMW name for the saloon, E9 for the coupé). -- Hotlorp 17:30, 18 Mar 2005 (UTC)

OK, now I've tidied up this page, and moved the BMW 3.0 page to BMW E9, which is also  linked from here. -- Hotlorp 16:41, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I added some information to correct previous errors on this page and provide further content. My father purchased a Bavaria new when I was 13, and I later bought the car from him. It was in the family for almost 25 years. All my additions are off the top of my head, but I am confident on the quality of the material.--CSBM5 19:53, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

E3 and E9
A lot of information on the E3/E9 page is still wrong or misleading. I have owned an E9 and I have an E3 and I know quiet a bit about both. Would it be acceptable to write two articles (one for the E3 and another for the E9) to update/replace this one? There's actually quiet a bit to say about both cars. Also, the 5-series replaced the Neue Klasse 4-door sedan (ex: the 1800) while the 7-series was the replacement for the E3 (the E3 was BMW's first New Class large sedan). Similarly the E9 was a replacement for the controvercial 2000CS, using the E3 mechanicals, and it was replaced by the 6-series as the large touring/coupe model. The E3 was BMW's first car with the M30 'big six', a very interesting and historically-important engine used until 1993 or so. I really think they deserve two accurate and detailed articles. -- (andrey 15:29, 27 August 2005 (UTC))
 * I agree that it is worth having separate articles for the E3 and E9. Currently there is a lot of overlap between the two articles, which I think causes confusion for casual readers, so I will try to remove some of the overlap. 1292simon (talk) 19:18, 25 August 2017
 * The current article covers both the sedan and the coupé, and it seems to me that a lay person would initially be best served by reading such an "umbrella article". The more specific article for the coupé is linked as a "main" article so the reader would dig into that if they were interested.  I don't think there is enough material yet for three articles (i.e. the overall, and two more specific ones) so I am proposing that we leave the scope of the articles as they stand for now.  Do you agree?  In any case, I am cleaning up the material and making it less confusing, so if we want to change anything, it will be easier.  I am also thinking that the coupé article should be renamed to New Six CS as I get the feeling that for a lay person, this name is better than BMW E9.  What are your thoughts? My Gussie (talk) 21:53, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi My Gussie. Thanks for inviting the discussion. Yes, a separate umbrella article seems unnecessary here. My preference is to have both articles as standalone articles, without one appearing as the "child" article of the other. This is because the E9 exists as a separate model range, not merely the coupe spin-off models of the E3. I think the linking of the articles should be just by noting the commonalities in the intro.

 * The articles names are a tricky question! Does anyone know where the term "New Six" has come from? I can't find any official reference to "New Six", and when BMW groups the E3/E9 together, they simply call them the "six cylinder cars" of the range (1, 2). If "New Six" is not an official term, then my preference is that the articles be called "BMW E3" and "BMW E9", as per the German wikipedia. Cheers, 1292simon (talk) 08:29, 30 May 2018 (UTC)

Not a full-size sedan
If we have to get technical, yes the New Six was a descendant of the 7 Series as the flagship sedan, but in contrast to the 7 Series, the New Six (E3) was more of a W114 competitor in terms of exterior size as well as engine options too. The W108 was a much, much larger car and that could even be compared to the American landyachts of yore. Both the New Six and the W114 were 195-196" long with a wheelbase above 105"--below 110", and not to mention the W108 even had V8 options! Also, having compared the New Class (1500) and the New Six (E3), the New Six was built to compete directly with the W114, however the New Class was more similar to the W120 which was still in production by the time the New Class was released as both were E-segment cars. BMW happened to have two E-segment cars, but the New Six was more of an in-betweener, since it didn't come with a four-cylinder engine. BMW was more focused on engine over size. 71.94.157.155 (talk) 06:48, 13 March 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:BMW New Six


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Sir Richard Willis, 1st Baronet

Sir Richard Willis, 1st Baronet (sometimes spelt 'Willys') (13 January 1614 – December 1690) was a Royalist officer during the English Civil War, and a double agent working for the Parliamentarians during the Interregnum.

Early life
Willis was the younger brother of Thomas Willys, both being sons of Richard Willys, a lawyer and Lord of the Manors of Fen Ditton and Horningsey, Cambridgeshire, by Jane, daughter and heir of William Henmarsh, of Balls, in Ware, Hertfordshire. Both were created baronets of Fen Ditton in Cambridgeshire by Charles I.

Career
Willis went up to Christ's College, Cambridge in 1631, and was admitted to Gray's Inn in the same year. As a younger son, he stood to inherit little, so became a career soldier, enlisting in the Dutch military and serving at the Siege of Breda in 1637, returning to serve under King Charles I in the Bishops' Wars from 1639 to 1640. Prior to the outbreak of civil war, Willis was a member of the King's Guard based at Whitehall under Sir Thomas Lunsford.

He joined the Royalist cause as an officer in the King's army, being knighted on 1 October 1642 by the King for gallantry in a cavalry skirmish at Shrewsbury, and was promoted to Colonel of a Regiment of Cavalry under William Villiers, 2nd Viscount Grandison, being captured twice during this period but escaping. Imprisoned in the Tower of London for nine months following capture at Ellesmere in 1644, Willis joined Prince Rupert's forces.

Willis eventually became Colonel General of the counties of Lincolnshire, Nottinghamshire, and Rutland, and in May 1645 was appointed Governor of Newark. By this time Prince Rupert had been defeated at the Battle of Naseby, and through the machinations of Lord Digby, a rival and advisor to the King, came under suspicion as plotting against the crown. Rupert's subsequent surrender at Bristol caused Charles to dismiss his nephew from his service. While Charles was at Newark, Rupert arrived to confront him over what he considered the injury done to his honour; Willis rode out with Lord Gerard to greet him. The court-martial Rupert demanded exonerated him, but Willis, for what the King considered to be the disloyalty of his attendance on Rupert, was replaced by Lord Belasyse as Governor of Newark. Willis challenged him to a duel, but was stopped by the King; Rupert, his brother Prince Maurice, Gerard and other cavaliers took Willis's side and in the ensuing argument were all dismissed from the King's service. Rupert later reconciled with the King, and Willis, for his previous service, was created a Baronet of Fen Ditton in June 1646, as his elder brother, a landowner and politician, had been five years previously.

Following the Royalist defeat, Willis spent some time in Italy, returning to England in 1652 to join the Royalist underground organisation, the Sealed Knot (his successor as Governor of Newark, Belasyse, was also one of the members).

However, it seems Willis became a double agent. Although twice imprisoned by the Commonwealth, he established contact with Cromwell's secret service, led by John Thurloe, in 1656 or 1657, possibly for money (in A Child's History of England, Ch.XXXIV, Charles Dickens wrote that Willis "reported to Oliver everything that passed among them, and had two hundred a year for it"). Alternatively, Willis may have wanted to secure his safety in case the Royalist cause failed. Notwithstanding critical assessments of his actions, however, no evidence has been uncovered that Willis passed on any significant piece of information, or betrayed any old friends.

In 1659 Willis was denounced to the future King Charles II by Thurloe's secretary, Samuel Morland, who accused him of plotting, with Thurloe and Cromwell, to lure Charles and his brothers to return to England under false pretences (to meet followers in Sussex) and then assassinate them. Morland is said to have learned of the plan while pretending to be asleep in Thurloe's office in Lincoln's Inn.

After the Restoration Willis was banned from court, but no other punishment was imposed, presumably in recognition of his previous service. Having taken a wife of considerable means, he enjoyed a comfortable retirement with his family at Fen Ditton, where his will, dated 16 to 20 May, was probated 10 December 1690.

Personal life
Willis married in or before 1659, Alice, daughter and sole heir of Thomas Fox, M.D., of Warlies, in Waltham Holy Cross, Essex [bur. there 26 Nov. 1662], and of Shipton, Oxon, by Anne, daughter of Robert Honywood, of Pett, in Charing, Kent. Her will, dated 27 October 1684, prorated 28 March 1688. Alice was the great-granddaughter of the martyrologist John Foxe, her grandfather being his son Samuel (1560-1630).

The baronetcy passed to Sir Thomas Fox Willys, of Warlies (30 June 1661 – 1701) who was said by his grandfather Thomas Fox to have been born "bereft of his wits" and died unmarried and without children at the age of 59. With his death the Baronetcy created for Willis became extinct.

In literature
Richard Willis appears as a character in Act II of the play Cromwell by Victor Hugo, published in Paris in 1828.

In his afterword to An Instance of the Fingerpost, Iain Pears explains that much of the book's plot was inspired by the career of Willis, and his family's later, unsuccessful attempts to clear his name.

title: Sir Richard Willis, 1st Baronet


text:
User talk:Curtis Becker

Hi, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thanks for uploading the following image:

 * Image:Eatonia Hiway.jpg

I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status?

You can use   if you wish to release your own work under the GNU Free Documentation License,    if you wish to release your own work to the public domain,    if you claim fair use of someone else's work, and so on. Click here for a list of the various tags.

If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know at my talk page where you got the image from, and I'll tag it for you. (And if you know exactly what this means and are really tired of the constant reminders, please excuse me. They will stop once the tagging project is complete.) Thanks so much. Denni ☯ 23:26, 2004 Dec 18 (UTC)

P.S. You can help tag other images at Untagged_Images. Thanks again.

title: User talk:Curtis Becker


text:
Bruce Spence

Bruce Robert Spence (born 17 September 1945) is a New Zealand-born Australian actor. Spence has amassed over 100 film and television credits and has also acted in theatre.

Biography
Spence won an AFI Award for Best Actor for his role in the 1971 comedy Stork.

Spence's best known film role is as the gyrocopter pilot in Mad Max 2 (1981). He also played the lead role in Werner Herzog's Where the Green Ants Dream (1984) and portrayed Jedediah the pilot in Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome (1985).

In the 21st century, Spence played the Mouth of Sauron in The Lord of the Rings: The Return of the King (2003), the Trainman in The Matrix Revolutions (2003), and Baxter in Disney's Inspector Gadget 2 (2003), and voiced the character Chum in Finding Nemo (2003). He also portrayed Tion Medon in Star Wars: Episode III – Revenge of the Sith (2005) and played Lord Rhoop in The Chronicles of Narnia: The Voyage of the Dawn Treader (2010).

Spence portrayed the palaeontologist (Huxley) in the Australian performance of BBC's Walking with Dinosaurs: The Live Experience. In his role, Spence narrated the activities of life-sized mechanical dinosaurs operated by teams of puppeteers and drivers. In 2008, Spence joined the television series Legend of the Seeker, which was based on the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind. He played the role of Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander, co-starring with Craig Horner and Bridget Regan. The show ran for two seasons.

In 2014, Spence played prison inmate George Corella in episode 3.1 of Rake.

In 2024, Spence was named as the recipient for the Equity Lifetime Achievement award.

title: Bruce Spence


text:
Jan de Hartog

Jan de Hartog (April 22, 1914 – September 22, 2002) was a Dutch playwright, novelist and occasional social critic who moved to the United States in the early 1960s and became a Quaker.

Early life
In 1914, Jan de Hartog was born to a Dutch Calvinist minister and professor of theology, Arnold Hendrik, and his wife, Lucretia de Hartog, who was a lecturer in medieval mysticism. He was raised in Haarlem in the Netherlands.

When he was 10 year old, de Hartog ran away to become a cabin boy on board a Dutch fishing boat. Despite his father having returned de Hartog home, when he was 12 years old, de Hartog ran away to a steamer in the Baltic.

At 16, he attended the Kweekschool voor de Zeevaart in Amsterdam, a training college for the Dutch merchant marine.

De Hartog shoveled coal at night with the Amsterdam Harbour Police until 1932.

While employed as skipper of a tour boat on the Amsterdam Canals, he wrote mysteries featuring Inspector Gregor Boyarski of the Amsterdam Harbor Police. He used the pseudonym "F. R. Eckmar."

His theater career began in the 1930s at the Amsterdam Municipal Theater, where he acted in and wrote a play.

World War II
In May 1940, 10 days before Nazi Germany invaded and occupied the Netherlands, de Hartog published his book Hollands Glorie (Holland's Glory, translated into English as Captain Jan).

The novel described the life of sailors on ocean-going tugboats rescuing ocean liners. The book became a bestseller in the Netherlands. De Hartog joined the Dutch resistance, and was pursued by the Nazis, forcing him to go into hiding in Amsterdam in 1943. He escaped to England. His book became the best selling novel of the war years in the Netherlands.

He joined the Netherlands merchant navy as a correspondent in 1943 and served as a ship's captain for which he received the Netherlands' "Cross of Merit."

De Hartog's experience served as the background for books such as The Captain and Stella (novel). Stella was made into a movie called The Key, starring Sophia Loren, Trevor Howard, and William Holden.

Postwar
In 1947, De Hartog's book Hollands Glorie was translated into English and was called Captain Jan. Remaining in the United Kingdom, de Hartog began writing his books in English, beginning with The Lost Sea (1951), which was a fictional account of his experiences working aboard ship.

In 1952, while visiting New York, he encountered a play that he had written while he had still been in hiding during the war and had sold the rights to while he was in England. The play was called The Fourposter, for which de Hartog received a Tony Award for Best Play at the 6th annual Tony Awards Show. Columbia Pictures made The Fourposter into a partially animated movie, starring Rex Harrison and Lilli Palmer. The film was nominated for a Golden Globe and an Academy Award for its cinematography. In 1966, The Fourposter became the musical I Do! I Do! The play appeared under its original name at the Theatre New Brunswick in 1974.

De Hartog and his wife transformed a 90-foot Dutch ship into a houseboat, which they made their home. During the floods in the Netherlands of 1953, The Rival was transformed into a floating hospital about which de Hartog wrote in The Little Ark.

Move to America
In the 1950s, de Hartog took The Rival to Houston, Texas on the deck of a freighter.

While de Hartog was lecturing at the University of Houston on playwriting, he and his wife volunteered at Jefferson Davis County Hospital.

De Hartog wrote about the bad conditions at the hospital in his non-fiction memoir The Hospital (1964). The book received a national response but also a local response in which, within a week of the book's release, nearly four hundred citizens volunteered at the hospital. It led to reforms of the city's indigent healthcare system through the creation of the Harris County Hospital District. Despite national success, some of Houston's citizens reacted to the book with hostility, forcing de Hartog and his wife to return to Europe.

In 1967, de Hartog wrote The Captain, which revisited his love of the sea and featured a central character based loosely on himself called Martinus Harinxma, who had first appeared in The Lost Sea (1951). The book was a success, and Martinus would live on as a central character in several sequels.

Before starting work on the second in the Martinus series, de Hartog wrote of the experience of adopting his two daughters, who were Korean War orphans, in The Children, which appeared in 1969. He wrote a fictionalized account of the origin of the Religious Society of Friends, The Peaceable Kingdom: An American Saga, in 1972. It was nominated for the Nobel Prize and was followed eight years later by a Quaker novel, The Lamb's War (1980).

In 1985, de Hartog was awarded an honorary Doctor of Humane Letters (L.H.D.) degree from Whittier College.

He published the next book in the Martinus series, The Commodore, in 1986 while he was living in The Walled Garden in East Coker, Somerset, England, and it was followed by The Centurion (1989), which explored an interest in which he and his wife had become involved, dowsing.

In 1993, de Hartog and his wife returned to Houston. He returned to the Quaker theme to write the last in the series, The Peculiar People, in 1992.

De Hartog's last fully completed novel was The Outer Buoy: A Story of the Ultimate Voyage in 1994.

In 1996, de Hartog was honored as the annual "Special Guest" at the Netherlands Film Festival.

In 2002, de Hartog died at the age of 88. His ashes were taken to sea on a tugboat, the, and were scattered on the surface of the sea at position 52.02.5 N – 04.05.0 E at 13.10 hrs LT by his wife, Marjorie, and his son, Nick, while other family members spread flowers at the site.

In 2007, Marjorie de Hartog edited a short story that her husband had begun, A View of the Ocean.

Fiction

 * (also published as Stella and The Key)
 * The Inspector (1960) ISBN 0-88411-069-9
 * The Artist (1963)
 * The Peaceable Kingdom: An American Saga (1971) ISBN 0-449-21773-6
 * The Trail of the Serpent ISBN 0-06-039018-2
 * Star of Peace (1983) ISBN 0-06-039029-8
 * Het Helig Experiment (1983)
 * The Centurion: A Novel (1989) ISBN 0-06-039094-8
 * The Peculiar People (1992) ISBN 0-679-41636-6
 * The Flight of the Henny
 * The Call of the Sea
 * Star of Peace (1983) ISBN 0-06-039029-8
 * Het Helig Experiment (1983)
 * The Centurion: A Novel (1989) ISBN 0-06-039094-8
 * The Peculiar People (1992) ISBN 0-679-41636-6
 * The Flight of the Henny
 * The Call of the Sea
 * The Flight of the Henny
 * The Call of the Sea

Stories

 * Mission to Borneo in Volume 30 - Summer 1957
 * Duel with a Witch Doctor in Volume 31 - Autumn 1957

Non-fiction

 * (released posthumously)
 * (released posthumously)
 * (released posthumously)
 * (released posthumously)
 * (released posthumously)
 * (released posthumously)

Movies
The Four Poster (1952) – 1hr 43min – Directed by Irving G. Reis
 * Based on the play The Fourposter.
 * Won Venice International Film Festival — Volpi Cup for Best Actress (Lilli Palmer)
 * Nominated for a Golden Globe for Best Cinematography — Black and white (Hal Mohr)
 * Nominated – Best Cinematography (Black-and-White) at the 26th Academy Awards (Hal Mohr)

The Key (1958) – 2hrs 1 min – Directed by Carol Reed
 * Based on the novel Stella (novel)
 * with William Holden and Sophia Loren
 * Won a British Academy Award for Best British Actor (Trevor Howard)

The Spiral Road (1962) – 2hrs 25min – Directed by Robert Mulligan
 * Based on the novel of the same name.
 * starring Rock Hudson and Burl Ives

Lisa (1962) – 1hr 52min – Directed by Philip Dunne
 * Based on the novel, The Inspector
 * Released as The Inspector in the United Kingdom
 * starring Dolores Hart, Stephen Boyd and Donald Pleasence
 * Nominated for a Golden Globe for "Best Picture – Drama"

The Little Ark (1972) – 1hr 40min – Directed by James B. Clark
 * Based on the novel of the same name.
 * Nominated – Best Original Song ("Come Follow, Follow Me") at the 45th Academy Awards (Marsha Karlin and Fred Karlin)

Television

 * The Fourposter (Play on TV) (1955) – 1hr 30min – Directed by Clark Jones and aired on NBC, July 25, 1955, as an episode of the 'Producers' Showcase Series' whose tagline reads "Bringing the best of Broadway to the 21-inch screen".
 * The Four Poster, 1964 Australian TV play directed by James Upshaw

title: Jan de Hartog


text:
Elena Souliotis

Elena Souliotis (spelled Suliotis in the early part of her career; Έλενα Σουλιώτη; 28 May 1943 – 4 December 2004) was a Greek operatic soprano.

Biography
Elena Souliotis was born in Athens, Greece, of Greek and Russian parents but moved with her family to Argentina at an early age. She studied with Mercedes Llopart, who also taught Renata Scotto, Anna Moffo, Fiorenza Cossotto, Ivo Vinco and Alfredo Kraus Trujillo. She made her debut in 1964 as Santuzza in Mascagni's Cavalleria rusticana in Naples. She made her United States debut at the Lyric Opera of Chicago during the 1965-66 season as Elena in Boito's Mefistofele; her colleagues in that performance were Renata Tebaldi, Alfredo Kraus and Nicolai Ghiaurov. Other roles that she went on to sing soon afterwards were Luisa Miller, Amelia in Un ballo in maschera and the title role of La Gioconda. A partial list of other operas in which she sang during the first part of her career (1964–1974) include Verdi's Aida and La forza del destino, Donizetti's Anna Bolena, Puccini's Manon Lescaut, Catalani's Loreley, Bellini's La straniera, Zandonai's Francesca da Rimini, and Susanna in Mussorgsky's Khovanshchina. She gave a recital at Carnegie Hall in 1976 and disappeared from the scene shortly after that.

The role for which she is best known is Abigaille in Verdi's opera Nabucco. She made a recording of this role for Decca/London in 1965 (opposite Tito Gobbi, and conducted by Lamberto Gardelli), and gave a performance of the role on opening night of La Scala's 1966-67 season. Within the next couple of years, she also recorded Santuzza (with Mario del Monaco and Gobbi, 1966) and the title role in Norma (with del Monaco, 1967), the latter in an abridged recording that was much maligned when it was initially released.

In 1968-69, she recorded Donizetti's Anna Bolena (with Marilyn Horne), a role she had sung at Carnegie Hall to open its 1967-68 season (with Plácido Domingo, Horne, and Dame Janet Baker), and, in 1970, Verdi's Macbeth (opposite Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau, Nicolai Ghiaurov, and Luciano Pavarotti, conducted by Gardelli). In 1970, she had changed the spelling of her name from Suliotis to Souliotis. She also recorded arias from Un ballo in maschera, La Gioconda, Luisa Miller, Anna Bolena and Macbeth (the last two before she had recorded the complete operas).

She made her London debut on 3 November 1968, when she sang Abigaille in a concert performance of Nabucco at the Theatre Royal, Drury Lane, an event mounted by the London Opera Society. The cast also included Piero Cappuccilli and Boris Christoff, and the conductor was Mario Gusella. In June 1969, she made her debut at the Royal Opera House, Covent Garden, singing Lady Macbeth for the first time.

Souliotis was scheduled to make her Metropolitan Opera debut as Lady Macbeth during the 1969-70 season. However, due to a strike, the first few months of the season were canceled. Souliotis never sang at the Met.

The received opinion is that Souliotis's early assumption of difficult roles damaged her voice. After an absence from the stage that lasted several years, she began a second career in secondary roles, beginning in 1979. She sang Fata Morgana in Sergei Prokofiev's The Love for Three Oranges in Chicago and Florence, and went on to sing in such operas as Prokofiev's The Gambler and Puccini's Suor Angelica, in the latter as the Zia Principessa. Her recording of this latter role, in 1991, opposite Mirella Freni, was her final studio recording. Toward the end of her career, she sang the role of the Comtesse in Tchaikovsky's The Queen of Spades in several venues, and gave her farewell to the operatic stage in this role in Stuttgart in February 2000.

Elena Souliotis died of heart failure in 2004 in Florence, Italy, aged 61.

title: Elena Souliotis


text:
Northern Rail

Northern Rail, branded as Northern, was an English train operating company owned by Serco-Abellio that operated the Northern Rail franchise from 2004 until 2016. It was the primary passenger train operator in Northern England, and operated the most stations of any train operating company in the United Kingdom. Northern Rail was replaced on 1 April 2016 by Arriva Rail North.

History
In 2000 the Strategic Rail Authority announced that it planned to reorganise the Regional Railways North West and Regional Railways North East franchises operated by First North Western and Arriva Trains Northern. A TransPennine Express franchise would be created for the long-distance regional services, with the remaining services to be operated by a new Northern Rail franchise.

On 1 July 2004 the Strategic Rail Authority awarded the franchise to Serco-NedRailways, beating FirstGroup. The franchise was awarded for six years and nine months, with a two-year extension subject to performance targets being achieved.

Serco-NedRailways' bid had assumed that some Class 142 Pacer trains would be released imminently when Manchester Metrolink services started between Manchester and Oldham. Due to a substantial delay in extending the Metrolink, it became clear that this was not going to be the case. As a result, the contract signing was delayed, and the services operated by First North Western and Arriva Trains Northern did not transfer to Northern until 12 December 2004.

In May 2010 the Department for Transport confirmed that Northern had met the performance targets, and the franchise was extended for two years until September 2013. In May 2012 the Department for Transport granted Northern a six-month extension until 31 March 2014. In March 2013 the Secretary of State for Transport announced the franchise would be further extended to February 2016.

In August 2014, the Department for Transport announced Abellio, Arriva and Govia had been shortlisted to bid for the next franchise.

On 9 December 2015, it was announced that Arriva trading as Arriva Rail North had been awarded a new franchise to run from 1 April 2016 through to March 2025.

Before Abellio and Serco's Northern Rail franchise came to an end, unit 158906 received a refurbishment on one of its carriages which included free Wi-Fi, destination displays showing the expected time of arrival, and USB ports at each table.

Additional services
In December 2008 Northern Rail introduced an express service from to  calling at, , , , , ,  and   using a  unit. The 10:17 service from Sheffield on Sundays continues to Carlisle creating a direct train service between Sheffield and Carlisle for the first time since the demise of British Rail. The service returns from Carlisle at 15:10.

In May 2015 Northern Rail announced the re-introduction of a direct service between Blackburn and Manchester Victoria via Burnley following the reopening of the Todmorden Curve. The service operates hourly, seven days a week.

Former services
Services on the route from Thorpes Bridge Junction, Newton Heath to Rochdale East Junction via Oldham, known as the Oldham Loop Line, ceased on 3 October 2009. The line was subsequently converted for Manchester Metrolink operation and reopened as a Metrolink route in 2012.

Northern Electrics was a brand offering electrified rail from Liverpool to Manchester.

Performance
Northern Rail won Public Transport Operator of the Year 2007 at the National Transport Awards and was praised by the judges for attracting 20% more passengers since 2004. When the extension of its franchise was announced, Northern Rail stated that it had improved punctuality from 83.7% in the 12 months to December 2004 to 91.6% in the 12 months to May 2010, meaning that around 200 more trains per day were on time than in 2004.

In the period 15 October 2009 to 14 November 2009, Northern's punctuality was 91.1% and reliability was 92.2%. Northern Rail's passenger charter targets were 91% for punctuality and 99% for reliability.

The franchise agreement commits to a 15% reduction in delays in the first five years and to a new 'incentive/penalty regime' and a more 'local focus on performance'.

The latest official figures released by NR (Network Rail) rate punctuality (PPM) at 91.9% and an MAA of 90.7% for period 7 (2013/2014) and the 12 months up to 12 October 2013.

The annual report for 2012, published in March 2013, of the Nederlandse Spoorwegen stated that Northern Rail transported 263,000 passengers daily. The customer satisfaction decreased to 80%. In May 2011 Northern Rail received the "Sustainable Business of the Year" award.

Approach to fare evasion
Northern Rail had a reputation for its rather tough approach on fare evasion, and was known to take passengers to court for underpaying by a matter of pence.

Rolling stock
Northern Rail operated a large diesel fleet, which was used on most services. There was also a smaller electric fleet used on shorter distance services around Leeds and Manchester and on services between Liverpool and Manchester.

Northern Rail inherited a fleet of Class 142, 144, 150, 153, 155, 156 and 158 diesel multiple units and Class 321, 323 and 333 electric multiple units from Arriva Trains Northern and First North Western.

In October 2006 Northern Rail leased six former Central Trains Class 158s that had been on loan to First Great Western.

In March 2007 Northern Rail announced it would be acquiring a further 30 Class 158s from Arriva Trains Wales, Central Trains and First Great Western to replace 26 Class 142 Pacers. In the event, Northern Rail received only 19 Class 158s, but did gain eight centre carriages from East Midlands Trains in 2008 that were inserted into Northern's ex-First North Western Class 158s. Twelve of the Class 142s were placed in store, then sublet to First Great Western from late 2007; five were returned to Northern Rail in the autumn of 2008 with the remaining seven following in the autumn of 2011.

From December 2008 until December 2011 Northern Rail leased three Class 180s for use on Blackpool North to Manchester Victoria and Hazel Grove services.

From July 2011 Northern Rail received 18 Class 150s from London Midland. In 2011, Northern Rail received the five former Stansted Express Class 322s from First ScotRail.

In March 2015 the first Class 319s entered service on the Liverpool Lime Street to Manchester Airport service.

Stations
In 2009, Northern Rail operated 471 stations; more than any other train operating company in the UK. The number fell to 462 later in the same year following closure of the Oldham Loop Line, and increased to 463 by 2013. New stations include Buckshaw Parkway in 2011, and James Cook in 2014. By 2013, trains operated by Northern Rail called at 526 stations.

Depots
The maintenance depots used by Northern Rail were located at: • Allerton (AN)

• Blackpool North LMD (BP)

• Barrow-in-Furness (BW) (Overnight cleaning)

• Buxton (BX) (Overnight Cleaning)

• Carlisle Station (Overnight cleaning)

• Heaton (Newcastle upon Tyne) (HT)

• Hull Botanic Gardens (BG)

• Longsight TRSMD (Manchester) (LO)

• Neville Hill (Leeds) (NL)

• Leeds Holbeck (HO) (Light maintenance and Refurbishments)

• Newton Heath TMD (Manchester) (NH)

• Sheffield Station (SM)

• Stockport Carriage Sidings (SQ) (Light maintenance and cleaning)

• Skipton Broughton Road Carriage sidings (333 Stabling)

• Workington (WK) (overnight cleaning for Cumbrian Coast)

• Wigan Wallgate Carriage Sidings (Overnight cleaning) The train crew depots were located at: • Leeds

• York

• Newcastle

• Darlington (Driver only)

• Middlesbrough (guard only)

• Carlisle

• Workington

• Blackpool North

• Liverpool Lime Street

• Wigan Wallgate

• Manchester Victoria

• Manchester Piccadilly

• Buxton

• Sheffield

• Skipton

• Huddersfield

• Harrogate

• Hull Paragon

• Barrow-in-Furness

• Doncaster To run the Cleethorpes to Barton service, one class 153 was stabled at Cleethorpes overnight and was cleaned, the train crew which ran the service were First TransPennine Express staff.

title: Northern Rail


text:
Marbled hatchetfish

The marbled hatchetfish (Carnegiella strigata) is a small, normally 3.5 cm in length, freshwater ray-finned fish native to South America. Hatchet shaped, it presents a gold line extending from its eye to its caudal fin while the area below has a brown and cream colored marble-like pattern (hence its name).

In the aquarium
The marbled hatchetfish is common in the aquarium industry. Like most Amazonian fish, the species prefers softer, acidic water. As with most characins, they are omnivores. Hatchets have a tendency to be shy fish and are easily intimidated by larger or fast moving fish, so they are only appropriate for very peaceful communities or species tanks. The marbled hatchetfish is usually kept in small schools. It is necessary for tanks inhabited by these fish to have a tight lid, as they can jump out when startled. Marbled hatchetfish are egg scatterers and have been bred in the aquarium hobby.

Camouflage
Marbled hatchetfish are adapted to life in the Amazonian rivers as they resemble a dead leaf floating sideways on the surface of a body of water. This camouflage protects them against potential predators that may be lurking in the water. Their marble-like pattern is to give the illusion of rays of light breaking the waters surface and reflecting on the portrayed leaf. The fish itself does not move much, letting the waves and currents move it mostly, but with occasional brief twitching movements. This replicates the way a leaf would be blown around or carried away by the tide or a current. The line running from its eye, to its tail, is believed to replicate the midrib (midvein) of a leaf.

title: Marbled hatchetfish


text:
Talk:Firefox/Archive 1

Screenshot
I am interested in doing a screenshot for the Phoenix article. I know the image has to be in JPG. Can anyone recommend a good image size? hoshie

 * Actually png is much better for screenshots (gif also works very well but there are evil patents to worry about with using that file type). The size depends on what you want to do with the image: If you want to have text flow around it (like in Pioneer 10) then a width of between 200-300 pixels would be best. If you want to have the image stand alone (like in Yosemite Valley) then it can be upto 600 pixels wide. What I often do is both by having a thumbnail and a link to a larger version (like with the second image at Manzanar Japanese internment camp). For more info visit Image use policy. --mav

RSS / Atom
In the article it mentions that RSS / Atom is supported by Firefox with the 1.0PR release, but I understood that this support was added to the *email client* Thunderbird version 0.8. Can someone confirm this?
 * I can personally confirm that both Thunderbird 0.9 and FireFox 1.0PR have RSS support, but that the mechanism and interface is completely different between the two.
 * FireFox 1.0PR has RSS support in the form of "Live Bookmarks". You can bookmark an RSS URL and it behaves like a bookmark sub folder, showing a recently-polled version of the link titles from the RSS feed whenever its opened.  For some sites, FireFox is able to locate an RSS URL on its own, and it displays an "RSS" button in the status bar that can be used to add a Live Bookmark.  (The full-featured Sage extension still works, and provides more powerful features, but isn't as seamless as the new built-in support.)
 * Thunderbird 0.8 has RSS support as well in the form of an "RSS" account type, in which can be created RSS folders. These folders act just like read-only mail folders, with the article title as the subject, and configurable as either the article summary or the actual article web page as the message contents. Saucepan 03:31, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Not sure about thunderbird, but it seems to me that the Firefox "Live bookmarks" (RSS feeds) have to be manually refreshed. Attaching the thing to Slashdot or Special:Recentchanges doesn't change things nearly fast enough for my taste.  Maybe I'm missing something in about:config.  --Ardonik.talk* 03:42, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
 * I think its also due to the feed itself. I had issues with Slashdot that even after updating it was not showing the top story that could be seen at the site itself. Probably find that the sites are only updating the RSS after a set amount of time not after a change--enceladus 10:54, 20 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * I think Slashdot will IP ban you for a day or so if you request the RSS feed too often. Rhobite 21:51, Sep 20, 2004 (UTC)
 * I would like to see a link from the Firefox page to Live bookmarks, but I'm not going to do it on a day when it is the featured article.

off-topic: non-platform native UI
This probably is the least useful place to discuss this, but I feel that the incorporation of non-platform native UI is what will forever doom Mozilla/Firebird to geekdom, rather than mainstream acceptance. Mac users (for example) simply don't want Windowsy UI on their systems! They want what the OS provides. Anything that looks wrong will be forever branded a second-class citizen, no matter how great the functionality. Call it shallow, but there it is. Why the XUL stuff can't simply call up native widgets on each platform I don't know. GRAHAMUK 11:37, 27 Nov 2003 (UTC)

 * Three things:
 * Yes this is probably the least useful place to discuss this - discussion on Wikipedia which won't lead to an improvement in content is discouraged.
 * That aside, the first mistake I'd like to point out is that Mozilla doesn't have a "Windowsy UI". XUL is, by its very nature, highly skinnable, and many of the skins out there bear little resemblance to any [unmodified/skinned] OS I've seen.
 * Furthermore, the idea of calling up native widgets on each platform is exactly the purpose of projects like Camino, K-Meleon and Galeon. But obviously, once you start doing that (to a worthwhile extent), the program's not cross-platform anymore (in quite the same way - you can't just add support for a new platform with a few bindings).
 * - IMSoP 12:44, 28 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Reference removed, but the citation remains
In the article, there is a reference to Keating (2004), but someone removed the reference itself! It's beyond me why anyone would do that; someone should bring it back.

—Vespristiano 04:12, 2004 Feb 11 (UTC)
 * Well, I've got good news and I've got bad news. The good news is that it's easy to find out who did it.  The bad news is that apparently you'll have to look in a mirror.  :)  Go to the page history and look at your two changes on the 8th.   Scott McNay 06:39, 2004 Feb 12 (UTC)

Screenshot
I honestly can't believe someone went for the trouble of changing the screenshot from one of Firefox running under Windows to one of Firefox running under Gnome. I mean, seriously. -- Timwi 01:41, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * The other thing being, that we must be gradually filling up the wikipedia server with unused images, all under seperate names, which seems rather a waste (and yes, I'm guilty of this too, see above). I must say, I don't like the current one, though, since neither Firefox nor Wikipedia are shown in their default state. Perhaps we could come up with a set of criteria that we would all agree on, and upload a carefully contrived shot once and for all. How about:
 * Firefox in its default configuration (i.e. no toolbar customisation, default theme, default set of toolbars visible)
 * Wikipedia in its default configuration (i.e. skin, link colours)
 * Seemingly, we need a decision on what OS - I see nothing against Windows, but GNOME or KDE if people insist on Free-ness.
 * taken at a screen resolution of 800x600, and then scaled down (?)
 * Listing this all out seems a bit over the top, I know, but otherwise it's just going to change every other day when somebody disagrees with the current picture. Hmm, maybe we need a Using software screenshots policy page? - IMSoP 02:11, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * In this case, the OS thing is basically irrelevant; just use your favorite picture editor to crop off the window border. If you redid the current pic with default toolbars, and cropped the window border, I suspect that only a masochist would be able to tell the difference between it and the previous picture sans border, and even then, considering that FireFox is supposed to be platform independent, you'd probably have to report it as a bug.

 * My opinion is that the previous picture was just fine; it met all of the requirements; just crop the OS's window border off in order to keep the OS bigots quiet (and if you don't like being called an OS bigot, then don't replace one biased pisture with a MORE-biased picture).
 * This name calling is completely unnecessary, Scott. Take it easy. I broadly agree with you, though. Mr. Jones 15:39, 8 Apr 2004 (UTC)

 * As for newer versions of Firefox, I'd say don't change the pic unless there's a noticeable difference... and I don't mean merely a different default skin. Just document what skin is used, and note that it's basically the same for version 0.8, 0.9, etc.  Scott McNay 05:47, 2004 Feb 15 (UTC)

Ok, I took the previous pic and cropped the title bar off, so that you really can't tell what OS it is. It's probably about as close to generic as it's going to get. And if it isn't, well, at least it was originally rendered on the OS used by the large majority of the population and the rest of the population almost certaintly is halfway familiar with, so it still satisfies NPOV reasonably well. Scott McNay 06:43, 2004 Feb 15 (UTC)

 * Although this discussion has gone quiet, I've gone ahead and created Software screenshots to centralise discussion on this, as well as the currently hot-topic of copyright issues. Please read and comment there. - IMSoP 15:41, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)
 * I have uploaded a new shot to conform to the suggested serving outlined in Software_screenshots.
 * It is located at Image:Mozilla Firefox 1.0 front page screenshot.png, like the previous one. Any objections?
 * Boffy b 22:53, 2004 Nov 30 (UTC)

 * It doesn't seem to be showing the Wikipedia main page... though maybe it's just my cache. Andre ( talk )A| 23:02, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)

 * I had to refresh for it to show, try clearing your cache if all else fails. Boffy b 14:36, 2004 Dec 1 (UTC)

IE, cross-platform, etc
David Gerard, the change that you made implies, to those of us who have seen the prior text, that IE does support XML, which I don't think is correct. Since it is the most widely-used browser, I think it's appropriate to specifically mention it. Scott McNay 18:07, 2004 Feb 15 (UTC)

 * I'm not sure I follow you there, Scott: if you're talking about this change, it is saying nothing about XML, only that Firefox is unusual in being cross-platform. I can see reasons for and against citing IE as an example, but the current text certainly doesn't imply that IE is cross-platform. - IMSoP 18:20, 15 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * After looking again, I agree; the text specifically mentions Mozilla-based platforms, so in that context, it would not be proper to mention IE.

 * I was also looking at the mention of XUL (I meant that instead of XML), and apparently didn't realize that it was modifying cross-platform.

 * Scott McNay 20:49, 2004 Feb 15 (UTC)

 * I wasn't referring to previous versions from the history; just tuning the paragraph as it stood. Though possibly it could do with further tuning. IE gets what cross-platform nature it has from the Unix versions porting chunks of Windows infrastructure with them. (IE for Mac is a completely different browser of the same name.) Opera uses Qt on Linux/BSD, not sure if it uses Qt on Windows. Possibly everything past the first sentence of the paragraph as it stands should be removed - David Gerard 23:28, Feb 15, 2004 (UTC)

Screenshots, again
I reverted from the version by Cgs to my last version because his screenshot does not have the default settings, and there was no need to change the image I posted. The current image is OS independent and Wikipedia:Software screenshots says thats ok. Perl 17:06, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, as the Software screenshots page clearly states, it is not an existing consensus - I set it up more as a request for comments than anything else. I suggest that people don't waste time, bandwidth, and disk-space creating more and more screenshots until some conclusions have been reached. - IMSoP 17:12, 22 Feb 2004 (UTC)

 * Sorry, I thought those were the conclusions reached from discussion. CGS 02:02, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC).

I have a better idea: let's stop beating the dead horses. The picture may not be perfect, but I think that only someone looking for something to nitpick about will find a flaw. Let's drop the subject and find something productive to do.

I'd say that unless a picture is WRONG somehow, it should be left alone. Scott McNay 08:17, 2004 Feb 23 (UTC)

 * Well in general, I agree, but over the last few months about half a dozen different people have decided that this picture was indeed "wrong" in some way - so I figured it would be a good idea to define what "right" was. Hopefully then we can all spend our time on something more productive. - IMSoP 11:18, 23 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Firesomething
The Firesomething extension isn't just some personal extension, so I don't see why it was removed. I know that not every extension needs to be listed, but this one is getting some attention recently. -- LGagnon

You'll also note that I tried to edit the mention in such a way that its relationship to the official product, and the official changes of name, was clearer - I only didn't go further, because I didn't want to use up a disproportionate amount of the article explaining who'd written it and why. - IMSoP 23:29, 27 Mar 2004 (UTC)

Opener Change
I removed the "mozilla/browser" reference from the opener as it wasn't a public name for the browser. Internal development names in an opener don't seem encyclopedic. The public knew it as Phoenix, followed by Firebird, then Firefox. -- Stevietheman 16:43, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Spreadfirefox.com
I've never seen so many attempts to add a non-notable link to a page before. Completely different people each time. Why? And then I saw this. Apparently, some TechTV people are encouraging people to visit spreadfirefox.com and that somehow translates into deserving a link from the Wikipedia Firefox article. Can't say I'm impressed; linkspam is linkspam. But it does give me some indication of the number of people contributing to this encyclopedia who also watch (and obey) TechTV. :-) --Ardonik.talk 06:06, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)

 * I take it you haven't downloaded PR1. If you have then go to Help --> Promote Firefox and guess where it takes you. And I don't watch TechTV--enceladus 07:03, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I still consider myself new here and so offer no opinion about the spreadfirefox.com link's suitability. But if I did think it was non-notable, a stream of different, apparently-well-meaning contributors adding the link back in would cause me to wonder, even a little, if I mightn't be wrong. Saucepan 07:28, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I used to be and still am (but not as much as before) quite involved with the Firefox community, and I can assure you that spreadfirefox.com isn't non-notable. It's the centre for marketing Firefox. Perhaps one could argue it does not merit a link, but regardless, it's not non-notable. Johnleemk | Talk 09:39, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * It was just launched 3 days ago (thus the low google pagerank), and is the new center of the marketing efforts for Mozilla Firefox. I would argue that it's the second most important external link there, just behind the product homepage. The problem occurs when people replace the generic link with their own referrer. And I don't have cable, but I do keep up with mozilla development (watching nightlies) and this is huge. The second most marketed open-source product ever (behind linux). --Gregb 16:25, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * It is notable. I don't watch techtv (because techtv isn't in my country), but it is a promotion site for firefox and should be definatley in the article. Thanks to this campaign there are alredy over 500 000 downloads. Firefox 1.0PR is just to good not too download. I too am part of the spread firefox movement (see my user page). This should be in the article, but prohibiting individual referal tags. Norm 16:38, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 * Okay. I won't resist its inclusion into the article anymore.  I had no idea the site was considered that important.  Sorry, everyone!  --Ardonik.talk 17:10, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)

 * How about adding when (if it is known) the NYT ad will (was) be published? Nrbelex
 * It is currently unknown when the ad will be published but it is expected to be within the next week or two as they decided to save money on it by being more flexible with possible dates for it to go out on. --Chrisblore 18:30, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Updated Release History Table
Hello all, I have updated the release history table. I have added some rowspans and also colour-coded the versions for a clearer indication of where the project is at.

(Appreciate that colour-coding may not be a good idea, opinions please...)

In doing so I came across a Firefox table layout rendering bug. This had already been reported in bugzilla so it is kind of a known issue.

To reproduce do the following (using Firefox): - Load the Mozilla Firefox page. - Note the vertical borders/lines within the table. - Hit F5 / reload the page. - Note the vertical borders/lines have now disappeared.

If you would like this issue fixed please vote for bug 244135 on bugzilla.

Regards,

RichCorb 23:47, Aug 29, 2004 (UTC)

Media awareness/social history
Shouldn't there be some mention of how the product has entered the consciousness of the general media, and a bit of its adoption history? Or are these mentioned elsewhere? A-giau 04:15, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * I use firefox every day, but to be quite frank, I don't think this browser has a large enough slice of mindshare or marketshare to justify having either section. We must actively resist using the Wikipedia as a tool for the promotion of any project, and in this case, reporting on something so insignificant seems tantamount to promotion.  --Ardonik.talk 04:22, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

 * That was almost certainly true a year ago, but something unexpected seems to have happened in the past few months (well, since CERT recommended against running IE, anyway), and suddenly Mozilla is on the radar of the mainstream press. I've been pleasantly surprised by the amount of coverage Mozilla/FireFox has been getting.  In fact, the tech section of Google News has been listing FireFox as a top story continuously for several days now, pretty much since the 1.0PR release.  Wikipedia isn't an ad agency and should avoid cheerleading, but mention of the increased media attention may well be factual and warranted. Saucepan 05:01, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * What would be interesting is mentions in the non-tech press - see talk:Linux where I used this as evidence that Linux did in fact deserve to be called "the most famous example of open source development." I've been following Mozilla closely for many years, and I'm amazed at the sudden upswing. As far as I can see, it started with Download.ject - that really frightened people - David Gerard 09:42, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * Actually, there has been a lot of press over the last few days, look at Google news. Plus Mozilla Firefox is promoting Wikipeda! Look in the "Firefox crew picks" bookmark folder :). Mindshare is increasing very fast, in fact the download count for 1.0PR has hit 750,000 already. As long as we are NPOV about it why not? Norm 12:03, 17 Sep 2004 (UTC)

 * A social (or cultural?) history might talk about the kinds of people who have (or have not) used the browser, how they used it (as only browser? for "risky" sites only?), how those trends have (or have not) changed, how the user-base is perceived by one or another group, whether that perception is changing and if so, how, etc.  A-giau 23:15, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Whangamata
I'm not that flash on North Island geography (having lived in Invercargill all my life) but I would have said that Whangamta was in the Coromandel and not the Bay of Plenty. Anyway with more knowledge willing to comment--enceladus 10:37, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Note: User's problem with Wikipedia on Firefox moved to User talk:Gbog - IMSoP 17:50, 17 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Whangamata is definitely in the Coromandel [] Onco p53 11:49, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Deer Park
Is Deer Park is not Deer Park, Victoria, but just a symbolic name. I was riding LIRR a few weeks ago and saw the name go by and I thought it sounded nice.

-Ben
 * Since your IP resolves to h162.mozilla.mv.meer.net, and meer.net states it is located in Mountain View, I guess you're really Ben. Ever think of signing up for Wikipedia?  It's free... --Me at work 17:13, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)

"Advocacy"
Hey Tannin - rather than having a revert war with you, can you please tell me specifically what's Firefox "advocacy"? Andre ( talk )A| 23:16, Nov 21, 2004 (UTC)

 * I am not Tannin, but I can guess what he meant by "advocacy" - sounds like he thought the changes were to "pro Firefox".... in other words, not NPOV. Well, I'll agree it's hard not to like Firefox, but personally I don't agree... -[Unknown] 07:40, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

I agree, Andrevan. The entry as a whole has all the right ingredients, but it's let down by a whole stack of fan-boy advocacy stuff. It reads like a press release put out by a PR firm. For example:

 * in the very first paragraph, it says: Even before the 1.0 release ... Firefox garnered a great deal of positive acclaim.
 * Or, Firefox has attracted attention as an alternative to Microsoft Internet Explorer, since (various things wrong with IE). This, strictly speaking, is true, but it is highly misleading. So far as better, more secure browsers that improve on IE go, Firefox is only a johhny-come-lately: it's treading a path already pioneeered by Opera, Mozilla, and others. The article reads as though Firefox pioneered all this better-than-explorer stuff.

There are others, but these are the worst. Tannin 07:55, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I agree with Tannin; I've always felt uncomfortable with this article, but I couldn't put my finger on it till Tannin expressed it so eloquently. Johnleemk | Talk 09:20, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I've rewritten the page; how is it now? Johnleemk | Talk 09:31, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Good edit, Johnleemk. Much better. Tannin 09:37, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Are you going to support the article's candidacy for featured status now? ;-) Johnleemk | Talk 09:40, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

No. But I'll either withdraw or modify my opposition. (I thought of doing that before, but quailed at the thought of finding the right place in that huge page. It's way too long.) To my way of thinking, a featured article should be really outstanding. Just "pretty good" ... well ... call me an optimist or a perfectionist, but I believe that the typical article should reach the standard of this one, and I don't like awarding "featured article" to entries that aren't damn near perfect. That's what the featured articles page is for - the extraordinarily good. Tannin

I'm not sure why this edit is better, but I think it's just as good. Andre ( talk )A| 15:12, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)

Free Software v.s. Open Source
I changed "open source" in section 0 to "free software" because that is the term the mozilla foundation uses (see: http://www.mozilla.org/foundation/trademarks/faq.html ). Chmod007 pointed out that the defenition of free software "is contested" which is simply not true in this case, the mozilla foundation specifically uses free software a defined by the FSF (see: http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html ) -- Ævar Arnfjörð [ Bjarmason]   13:51, 2004 Nov 28 (UTC)

 * To a layperson, "free software" means software that one does not have to pay for. I'm quite aware what definition the Mozilla Foundation and FSF use, but "free" is an ambiguous word (even in the free software movement, people are having trouble telling "free as in beer" from "free as in speech"). Saying that it is the most used "open source" application is just as correct as saying that it is the most used "free software" application. — David Remahl 14:09, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * One thing I've always thought makes it a tiny bit clear is to say "Free Software", rather than "free software" - at the very least, it implies that this is a specific term with a specific meaning, not just an adjective and a noun. I don't know how obvious it is to anyone else's mind, but to mine it seems like the distinction between "Conservative" and "conservative", or "Republican" and "republican". - IMSoP 14:24, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Whatever you may think of the ambiguity of free software might be right, regardless that is the word the mozilla foundation use to describe their projects and products we should use that in the article. The two terms to not mean the same thing. -- Ævar Arnfjörð [ Bjarmason]   14:32, 2004 Nov 28 (UTC)
 * I'm, as I said, quite aware that they do not mean the same thing. In fact, "open source" is the more _inclusive_ term, and the statement still holds true. There is therefore no need to restrict the statement to just free software. Besides, favouring the foundation's definition of the term simply because it's the foundation's is POV. Using a word in a way that is foreign to any non-initiated reader is not appropriate for an article intended for a general audience. — David Remahl 14:47, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes the statement is true, but just because a term applies to a given thing does not mean we should use it, especially when there is a more precise term avalible.
 * Besides, since when did "open source" become easy to understand to a non-initiated reader? There is alot more to it than just access to the sourcecode (see: http://www.opensource.org/docs/definition.php ). -- Ævar Arnfjörð [ Bjarmason]   16:13, 2004 Nov 28 (UTC)
 * To differentiate, 'Free Software' (The FSF's definition) involves freedom in the sense of liberty: you can do what you want to the source code, but if you distribute binaries you must provide the source code. This is different from 'Open-Source' software, which merely means that the source is open and people are given permission to do what they want with the source. In reality it's a bit more complicated than that, but an example is the old Windows TCP/IP stack, which was taken directly from one flavour of BSD (I have no idea which one actually). All that is required under that license is credit, and MS gave Berkeley that. MS is not required to publish the source code to windows, or to that module of windows. Were MS to rip off (don't accuse me of bias: that's what it is...) something licensed under the GPL in that manner, they would be legally required to publish the source code to their changes, or they would not have permission to use the code. - rernst 13:49, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Your statement is simply false, the BSD licence is a free software and open source license, you've confused free software with one implementation of it which is the GNU General Public License. -- Ævar Arnfjörð [ Bjarmason]   20:48, 2004 Dec 1 (UTC)
 * I fail to see what is the problem with the word "Free." Firefox is both "free as in free beer" (since you can download and use it without paying anything) and "free as in free speech" (since the source code is available in the Internet under both the Mozilla Public License, the GPL and the LGPL -- see ). As I see it, it doesn't matter what your definition of "free" is, Firefox fits it. MCBastos 14:45, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Popup blocker
Firefox no longer "blocks all JavaScript-based links from opening a new window while a page is loading." This was fixed before the Preview Release.

I also changed it to reflect that you can start a safe list of sites allowed to use popups. GregNorc 20:01, Nov 28, 2004 (UTC)

Sorry
I think I screwed up the page when editing earlier. Not sure what happened. Sorry. Andre ( talk )A| 19:56, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)

Actually, it appears to have been User:Will2k who deleted the features section, here. Andre ( talk )A| 20:07, Nov 29, 2004 (UTC)

Delicious Delicacies
As it is not particularly relevant to Firefox, and especially since this article is over the desired size limit already, I think the section about cookies/"delicious delicacies" should be omitted. Perhaps a parenthetical reference or a sentence or two is merited (i.e., talking about "That OSS is usually oriented towards technically-inclined users, and that change represents a change in focus towards a less-knowledgable end-user" (-User:Rernst)), but certainly not as much space as is given to tabbed browsing. -Grick 03:08, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I, personally, feel it deserves to be included. It was previously a separate article and consensus was to merge it, so I'm kind of annoyed by the whole concept of the size limit. Andre ( talk )A| 00:46, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)
 * I'd prefer it as a separate article. Oh well, then. How do you sign these things? -Grick 03:08, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I found it quite interesting and think it should be kept, furthermore the size limit should be totally ignored, just because NS4 or some other lame browser cannot handle pages over 32KB is no reason to split a page. -- Ævar Arnfjörð [ Bjarmason]   20:51, 2004 Dec 1 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Andre ( talk )A| 20:54, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

Firefox = Panda?
I really doubt that you will find any printed information in a reference book that firefox is another name for the red or little panda. The only prove I could find was a webpage from the zoo of Wellington with the obviously wrong information about a Chinese word hunho, which they claim is the Chinese word for the red panda. I checked several Chinese dictionaries; I'm very sure this information is wrong. The only possible meaning for hunho (hunhe) I could find is "mix" or "blend". They must have misunderstood a Chinese visitor in the Zoo. Wellington Zoo

As Wikipedia and more and more other websites carry this information, we can watch now the origin of a myth in the WWW, which at one day will be very difficult to correct. 2004-12-03

 * This guy is as confused as you are in terms of the link to the Chinese name. I wonder if he ever figured it out. Andre ( talk )A| 02:03, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

 * Hm, interesting. I went and looked in the complete Oxford English Dictionary, and indeed got no joy. However, I can find plenty more references to the term which pre-date Mozilla's, including more support for the "Hon ho" = "Fire-fox" claim:
 * For starters, this question and its eventual answer
 * which then gives 2 links, which are both now dead, but both available in the Internet Archive: one is a News item from Bristol Zoo, the other is the itinerary of some "Panda Tour" (aha, it appears to have moved to here)
 * this LiveJournal post contains a photo allegedly showing a plaque in Denver zoo (which I presume has been there some time)
 * This "newspaper" also predates the browser name change.
 * So, nothing very authoritative, I'll be the first to admit, but if it's a myth, it's a reasonably wide-spread one, and one that predates the Mozilla Foundation's use of the name, and has taken in various zoos around the world. I'm no expert in Chinese, but maybe there is a dialect in which that translation "works", and a region in which that name is used... - IMSoP 02:18, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Good findings. <b style="color:mediumblue;">Andre</b> ( talk )A| 02:26, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)
 * I guess, they all got it from the same wrong source. And it will be more and more, because Wikipedia is also spreading the incorrect information.
 * Of course I can live with Firefox = Litte Panda; I just don't like the incorrect information about a Chinese origin.
 * Anyway, the logo looks like a redfox, Firefox in Chinese (火狐) means redfox, the browser is as smart as a fox; what do we need the stupid bamboo eater for?
 * (2004-12-04 Heinz Lohmann in Danshui.)

 * I don't think that's correct; Chinese red is chì (赤), hóng (紅), zhū (朱), or dān (丹), and in this case probably hóng (which has nothing to do with fire). But since red foxes are native in China, red fox should probably be translated as just hú (狐).  I expect hǔohú (火狐) would simply be interpreted as firefox.  --[[User:Eequor| ᓛᖁ  [[Image:Venus symbol (blue).gif|♀]] [ ᑐ ]]] 07:22, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, yes, I guess it could have spread from one wrong fact somewhere (although the diversity of links I found doesn't make that seem entirely likely, IMHO). Perhaps we should ask the mozilla folks where they got the name from, since we're only spreading the information because they did.
 * Which is an interesting point: if "nobody" calls the Red Panda a "firefox", why does the term exist at all?
 * "Firefox Enterprises" have been on the web since 2000, and claim existence back to 1980
 * Firefox the e-learning company dates to 2002
 * Firefox.com has been in use since 1996 (mostly by a blogger, since at least Dec 1998, who has now given the domain to Mozilla)
 * I can't imagine they all just invented the word, so what did they think it meant? I've seen no other definition. In other words, Chinese or not, it's clearly a common name for something, and the red panda's the only candidate we've got.

 * As for the logo being a fox, that's explained in the article: "A firefox is actually a cute red panda, but it didn’t really conjure up the right imagery." (Jon Hicks) But the name was already chosen by then.

 * Oh, and BTW, I've posted to the Reference desk about this too, to see if I can intrigue some more eye-balls.:D - IMSoP 05:40, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * PS: Not to mention the movie, the eponymous fictional aeroplane, and the books it was based upon. - IMSoP 05:48, 3 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * There are 2 dictionaries (漢英大辭典 - 上海交通大學出版社 and 新漢德辭典 from 商務印書館) giving the same information, also 3 other Chinese-Chinese dictionaries, among them the 漢語大詞典, which comes in 12 volumes and is, to my knowledge, the most comprehensive one:
 * 火狐 huohu = red fox.
 * So I'm very positive: It's definitely not Chinese. The zoos must have got it wrong. But beeing an expert in Chinese is normally not expected from a zoo director.
 * Anyway, to cite a Chinese proverb that really exists: 三人成虎 three men make a tiger; or in other words: If something is repeated often enough, it will be accepted as truth. - 2004-12-03 Heinz Lohmann in Danshui.

Regardless of the Chinese origin, Firefox definitely somehow has meant red panda for a while. <b style="color:mediumblue;">Andre</b> ( talk )A| 15:37, Dec 3, 2004 (UTC)

 * I would like to correct you: Firefox will mean Little Panda in the future, regardless of the origin. The name is already too widespread. - 2004-12-04 05:13:21 (UTC) Heinz Lohmann in Danshui.

The comprhensive OED doesn't have these entries at all: firefox, fire fox, and fire-fox. So...it's probably a very obsolete word, considering how OED includes basically every single English word ever in use. --Menchi 00:19, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, I was surprised to draw a blank in the OED too, but not even that can contain everything. I'm also not sure that "very obsolete" is the likely reason (there are plenty of obsolete terms catalogued in the OED), and would in fact suggest the opposite: to my knowledge, the full OED isn't updated very often (the version I have is the "second edition", published some 50 years after the first) so it may be that the term has entered English too recently.

 * Nonetheless, I repeat my assertion that the term must have existed in order to be used by multiple unrelated companies, websites, and novels over the last 20-odd years; therefore, unless you believe that all these entities coincidentally used the same meaningless neologism, it must mean something. I have seen no definition other than Red Panda, so draw the logical conclusion, in lieu of new evidence, that the term "firefox" has been used in English for some time as a name for the "red panda". If this was once based on a misreading of a Chinese name, it would be no rare happening - there are places in the British Isles which have been ignorantly renamed by subsequent invaders who didn't understand the existing names, and are therefore effectively called things like "hill-hill hill" (with each "hill" being in a different once-local language).

 * Thinking about it, it seems the oldest reference we have so far is to the fictional aeroplane, from the novel which Amazon lists as first published in 1977. Now, real NATO reporting names, such as "Foxhound" and "Foxbat" appear to use real (but often obscure) words, and it seems likely that the author would use something as true to this as possible. However, it may be that it was Thomas who first popularised this term in English, having himself misunderstood something, or seen the error in one particular reference. This would explain the recurrence of the term for other uses (who may themselves not have known its meaning), and (if, say, the claim was made in the text of the novel, or the dialogue of the film) could even be the source of the myth (if myth it is) as to it being a Chinese translation. Not a very water-tight deduction, I admit, but possibly the best explanation we have so far. - IMSoP 16:24, 4 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * About a month ago I wrote an email to the Mozilla Project, because at that time I saw, they or the designer of the Firefox logo claimed, that firefox actually was a Chinese name for the red panda. At that time they also had the link to the Wellington Zoo (that's where I got it from), but now Mozilla doesn't show the link anymore. Therefore I think the designer is responsible for spreading the wrong information: firefox = red panda from the Wellington Zoo to the bigger WWW like SARS. It's probably to late now for any flu shots. 2004-12-05 Heinz Lohmann in Danshui.

The Mandarin Dictionary published in Taiwan does have an entry on "fire-fox" (火狐 (huo-hu)). It is also known as "red fox" (赤狐 chi-hu) But it does not describe Lesser Panda. It is just a species of white-tailed red fox from Manchuria (Chinese Northeast). Note that both kinds of pandas are in the Chinese Southwest (Tibet). Total geographic opposite. --Menchi 02:14, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Just noticed that Heinz Lohmann found the same thing above. --Menchi 04:03, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Heinz Lohmann, you seem to be completely ignoring much of the information I have posted to this page. It is 100% clear, as evidenced by my links above, that the claim that firefox = red panda existed in more than one place long before there was a browser by this name. Yet you continue to suggest that one designer got the information from one zoo; not that it matters, exactly, it's just frustrating to go to the effort of researching something and then have someone draw the same conclusions as though there was no new information. As far as I can see, the mistake (if such it is) was made several years ago, and had already propogated reasonably widely before the name change prompted the designer(s) to look up the meaning of the term (presumably, there search would have turned up on top the links I had to really dig for, since they wouldn't yet have been buried by software references). - IMSoP 19:57, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm really sorry that I gave you the impression I didn't check the links you kindly gave in your posting. I'm kind of new to Wikipeidia discussions. I did check the links, but hadn't explicitely referred to them because I still think, that the designer actually got the information from the Wellington Zoo. The reason: the first time this firefox/panda matter came to my attention was on the Mozilla Firefox page several weeks ago. At that time they still gave the link to the Wellington Zoo as a reference from where the information is from. This link has been removed in the meantime.
 * It's still very interesting for me to know that the mistake had already propagated (maybe by the WWW) for some time. Thanks again for your effort. 2004-12-06 Heinz Lohmann in Danshui

I'm not a chinese expert but a native mandarin speaker(though I speak cantonese fluently and know taiwanese, Hokkian, Hakka), the "hunho" doesn't lead to firefox from any point of view, as stated above for "火狐"or"Firefox" should be "huŏhú", but anyway it doesn't refer to the red panda(Ailurus fulgens). Since the mozilla team use the term Firefox for their browser(which is a great one), it's fine, because it's just a product name. And for the cute little red panda as their mascot, it brings no conflict at all. And if there is a chinese name for the Firefox, I would love to call it "火狐" which is kinda cool name in chinese from the point of the meaning and the pronunciation of the phrase itself. But definitely "hunho" is nothing related to any of the foxes in chinese(mandarin, cantonese, taiwanese, hokkian or hakka),the zoo either got it wrong or misspelled it. By the way red panda(Ailurus fulgens) is nothing to do with the big black eye panda(Ailuropoda melanoleuca) though they both eat "stupid" bamboos. 2004-12-13 小蓋 in Keelung P/s: hello Heinz Lohmann, are you 羅海恩副教授 from 東吳大學?
 * Yes. BTW, who are you? 2004-12-13 HAL-Guandu
 * guten Tag! Nice to meet you professor, I came across some website long time ago and notice you. We've never met before, but it is really nice to "meet" you here. 2004-12-13 小蓋

Opera users criticism section -- Huh?
I quote from the article:

Opera users may be perturbed at the fact that Firefox does not have cross-session browsing — where the tabs that were open when the browser was closed remain when it is reopened by default.

"Where the tabs that were open when the browser was closed remain when it is reopened by default"??

It may just be me, but I can't make heads or tails out of the meaning of that phrase. It seems somewhat grammatically ambiguous. Again, could be nothing. Perhaps including slightly more detail on this criticism and from what points it stems from could help clarify the meaning? --66.120.156.159 03:14, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * It means that if I have two tabs open to two different websites in opera when I close it, when I open it again those same two websites will be in tabs upon startup. - rernst 12:39, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I had edited the Opera criticisms section to better reflect that not all features in Opera are indeed available through Firefox extensions. Someone edited it again and took out that exact clarification... I'm not about to start an edit war, so let's form a consensus about it here. Among the features I'm alluding to are the email and IRC clients, the ability to place the tabbar vertically, sidepanels, much of the bookmark management behavior, and some other things someone else may comment on. Are they ALL available through obscure extensions I've never seen, or were my comment correct? flip 11:57, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, update.mozilla.org hosts a tiny fraction of all the extensions out there. Have you seen Tabbrowser Extensions? IIRC they have support for s vertical tab bar. I'm kind of busy right now, but I guess you could try http://extensionsmirror.nl and http://mozdev.org for starters. Johnleemk | Talk 12:00, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I think most if not all Opera features are available as extensions. However, of the ones you mention, e-mail is separate - Mozilla Thunderbird. <b style="color:mediumblue;">Andre</b> ( talk )A| 01:36, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

Firefox more multilingual than IE? Opera??
How many language packs does Firefox support? Are there languages only supported by Firefox? If it's much more than other browsers, I'd call that a feature. It'd mean some language users have to use Firefox and only Firefox to have an Ordinary Experience (rather than the Extraordinary Experience one gets by using an interface in a foreign language). A-giau 06:33, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Comparison of web browsers doesn't say (just checked). A-giau 06:34, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I count 26 localized builds, slightly more than that if you count previous versions, and about 30 official and 30 unofficial l10n teams. How this compares to other browsers, I don't know; perhaps similar information could be found for open source efforts, and something on microsoft.com advertising availability? - IMSoP 20:10, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * The Economist had an [http://ti nyurl.com/47dqc article] (long URL) (registration required) that claimed 65 langpacks for Mozilla (Suite?) and another 34 in development. A-giau 22:48, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Just a note for anyone wondering, as I did, why everything below this paragraph seems to have become indented, it's apparently because the external link to the economist article above ends with "%0a" - which is an escaped form of a newline character. This appears to be confusing MediaWiki's parser somehow, but obviously if I remove it, the link won't be correct any more. - IMSoP 15:05, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * URL shortened with TinyURL. - minghong 15:59, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Please don't. Tinyurl is a Bad Idea, on so many levels.  a) it makes it impossible to see what site you're going to -- a practice we want to *encourage* in tyros, not discourage.  b) it means you can't see if you've already been there.  c) it is disposable -- there's no guarantee how long tinyurl will last, and we may well outlast them.  -- Baylink 16:51, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I added back the longer link so that at least we'll know when the bug in MediaWiki is fixed. -- Skyfaller 18:13, 2004 Dec 14 (UTC)

 * I've reported this issue as bug 1114 - IMSoP 13:39, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Naming: Why "Mozilla Firefox" and not just "Firefox"
Why is it that the page Mozilla Firefox is the main page and Firefox is a redirect? If you go over to the product page for Firefox, you'll see that it's called "Firefox 1.0" Not once on that page do I see "Mozilla Firefox." Additionally, when I download the App is it called "Firefox" and then when I go to the get info window, it says "Firefox 1.0" Additionally, isn't it in the naming conventions of wikipedia to take the most common name? Firefox is used much more frequently than Mozilla Firefox (the latter returns one fifth of the results on google).

And frankly, it's just a pain to type that out every time I want to link to it.

 * Taken from the Firefox brand name FAQ:
 * Is it Firefox or Mozilla Firefox?
 * The official name is Mozilla Firefox. We will often shorten that to Firefox.
 * I wouldn't suggest that Firefox is more common than Mozilla Firefox, either. The full name is in the title bar of the browser, and it's at this CNET page as well. I think the article's good as it is. <b style="color:mediumblue;">Andre</b> ( talk )A| 03:33, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)

 * The "offical" name of North Korea is the Democratic People's Repubic of Korea, but that doesn't mean that's what the article is titled. Just because a few people writing articles at CNET doesn't mean it is the most popular name (besides lots of articles call it just "Firefox" ): just do a google search. Firefox returns 20,300,000 results, while "Mozilla Firefox" just 4,200,000. --Ctachme 04:24, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, but Korea returns more results than "North Korea". Perhaps the title of that article should be further resolved?  Obviously, that's tongue-in-cheek - Firefox does still mean Mozilla Firefox, not something different.  However, look at Dreamweaver, Word, Flash, Outlook, Visual Studio, Windows, OpenOffice, GPL... -[Unknown] 06:30, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)

 * The situation with Firefox is much the same as that of Windows. Obviously "Windows" gets more Google results than "Microsoft Windows," and in any computer or technology publication/website if you say "Windows" your readers know the Windows you mean. Similarly, saying just "Firefox" in a computers/technology publication or website obviously doesn't mean the animal or the movie. But for Wikipedia, I think it makes more sense to redirect or disambig this. <b style="color:mediumblue;">Andre</b> ( talk )A| 17:49, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)

Re-organization
The current page exceeds the page size limit. Also, the content is a mess, e.g.: I suggest to scan over the page and remove the repeated stuffs, so as to reduce the page size. And if possible, put some of the content into a new page.
 * External links scattered all over the page
 * Repeated materials like reference to old browser name, market adoption, etc.

--User:minghong 18:36, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Although, in general, I agree that this page is somewhat large, I would like to note that the "page size limit" is just a minor technical problem regarding editing the page in some browsers, and nothing to do with the optimum length of a piece of content (which, as far as I know, has never been "officially" agreed/defined). It doesn't affect reading the page, and if you have an afflicted browser, you can edit section by section (see Section). - IMSoP 20:36, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Agreed. <b style="color:mediumblue;">Andre</b> ( talk )A| 20:53, Dec 12, 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Firefox/Archive 1


text:
McKee

McKee is a surname of Scottish or Irish origin. The surname is derived from the Gaelic Mac Aodha ("son of Aodh") a patronymic form of an old Gaelic personal name which means "fire". Similar surnames which also are derived from the same Gaelic patronymic are McCoy, McGee, Kee and McKay. Notable people with the surname include:

 * Alexander McKee (c. 1735 – 1799), British Indian Department agent (in North America) and colonel
 * Alexander McKee (author) (1918–1992), British journalist, military historian and diver
 * Andrew McKee (disambiguation)
 * Ann McKee, neurologist and neuropathologist
 * Arthur McKee, New Zealand newspaper proprietor, photo-engraver and printer
 * Ben McKee (born 1985), American bassist for the band, Imagine Dragons
 * Billy McKee (born 1921), Irish republican, a founding member and former leader of the Provisional Irish Republican Army
 * Bonnie McKee (born 1984), American singer and songwriter
 * Charles McKee (born 1962), American sailor and Olympic bronze medalist
 * Christopher McKee (born 1942), astrophysicist
 * Daniel McKee (born 1951), Governor of Rhode Island
 * Darrell McKee (born c. 1963), Canadian curler
 * Dave McKee (died 2005), Australian politician
 * David McKee (1935–2022), British writer and illustrator
 * Dick McKee (1893–1920), member of the Irish Republican Army (IRA)
 * Elsie McKee, theology professor
 * Eva McKee (1890–1955), Irish craftswoman and designer
 * Frances McKee (born 1966), Scottish singer and songwriter
 * Frank McKee (1923–1988), Scottish professional footballer
 * Gina McKee (born 1964), English actress
 * Grant McKee (Sept. 14, 1940 – Jan. 10, 2018), Canadian Football League player, Grey Cup recipient Hamilton Tiger Cats 1963
 * Hugh McKee (1844–1871), American naval officer
 * Ivan McKee (born 1963), Scottish politician
 * Jaimes McKee, (born 1987) English-born Hong Kong footballer
 * James McKee (footballer), Scottish footballer
 * Jay McKee (born 1977), Canadian coach and former professional ice hockey player
 * Jerry McKee (born 1946), American basketball player
 * John McKee (disambiguation)
 * Kayleigh McKee (born 1994), American voice actress
 * Kenneth McKee (1906–1991), English orthopaedist, pioneer of hip replacement surgery
 * Kevin McKee (disambiguation)
 * Kinnaird R. McKee (1929–2013), United States Navy four-star admiral
 * Lonette McKee (born 1954), American actress, composer, producer, screenwriter and director
 * Lyra McKee (1990–2019), Northern Irish journalist and author
 * Maria McKee (born 1964), American singer-songwriter
 * Mary Harrison McKee (1858–1930), only daughter of President Benjamin Harrison and his first wife
 * Nicole McKee (born 1971/1972), New Zealand politician
 * Paul McKee (disambiguation)
 * Redick McKee (1800–1886, American government official
 * Robert McKee (born 1941), American author
 * Robert A. McKee (born 1949), American politician, former member of the Maryland House of Delegates
 * Roger McKee (1926–2014), American Major League Baseball pitcher
 * Roxanne McKee, English 21st century actress and model
 * Samuel McKee (disambiguation)
 * Sarah Galt Elwood McKee (1842–1934), Canadian social reformer and temperance leader
 * Seth J. McKee (1916–2016), United States Air Force general
 * Suzy McKee Charnas (born 1939), American novelist and short story writer
 * Tanner McKee (born 2000), American football player
 * Theodore McKee (born 1947), chief judge of the United States Court of Appeals for the Third Circuit
 * Thom McKee (born 1955), United States Navy officer
 * Tim McKee (born 1953), American former swimmer, three-time Olympic silver medalist
 * Tom McKee (born 1941), American politician

title: McKee


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User:Julie1984

In the best Soviet tradition, I give myself this medal for my heroic labor and fight against right-wing radicals. --Julie1984 00:17, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC) -

hmm

title: User:Julie1984


text: User talk:69.202.42.123

title: User talk:69.202.42.123