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Places of interest in the Death Valley area

Places of interest in the Death Valley area are mostly located within Death Valley National Park in eastern California.

Aguereberry Point
Aguereberry Point is a promontory and tourist viewpoint in the Panamint Range, within Death Valley National Park in Inyo County, eastern California.

The point's elevation reaches 6,433 ft and is named for Jean Pierre "Pete" Aguereberry, a Basque miner who was born in 1874, emigrated from France in 1890, and lived at and worked the nearby Eureka Mine from 1905 to his death in 1945.

From this viewpoint, one can see the surrounding Panamint Range extending to the north and south; Death Valley to the east, with Furnace Creek and the salt flats of Badwater Basin to the southeast; and Mount Charleston in Nevada far to the east.

Amargosa Chaos
The Amargosa Chaos is a series of geological formations located in the Black Mountains in southern Death Valley. In the 1930s, geologist Levi F. Noble studied the faulting and folding in the area, dubbing it the "Amargosa chaos" due to the extreme warping of the rock. Later researchers discovered that the region had experienced substantial tension that pulled large blocks of crust apart.

Modern geologists have documented four major deformational events that faulted and folded the Amargosa Chaos. The first event metamorphosed Death Valley's Precambrian basement rocks and occurred around 1,700 million years ago.

The second event began while layered younger Precambrian sediments were being deposited on top of the beveled surface of older metamorphic basement rocks. This deformational event shifted the crust vertically, creating thinning and thickening of some sedimentary layers as they were being deposited.

The two events responsible for the chaotic appearance of the Amargosa Chaos did not occur until over half a billion years later, during Mesozoic or Early Tertiary time. This third event folded the layered Precambrian and Cambrian sedimentary rocks.

The fourth and final event occurred quite recently, geologically speaking. This phase of deformation coincided with severe crustal stretching that created the deep valleys and high mountains of this part of the Basin and Range Province. In just a few million years, during Late Miocene to Pliocene time, older rocks were intensely faulted and sheared. In some areas all that remains of some thick rock layers are lens-shaped pods of rock bounded on all sides by faults. Other layers have been sliced out of their original sequence altogether.

Artist's Drive and Palette

Artist's Drive rises up to the top of an alluvial fan fed by a deep canyon cut into the Black Mountains. Artist's Palette is an area on the face of the Black Mountains noted for a variety of rock colors. These colors are caused by the oxidation of different metals (iron compounds produce red, pink and yellow, decomposition of tuff-derived mica produces green, and manganese produces purple).

Called the Artist Drive Formation, the rock unit provides evidence for one of the Death Valley area's most violently explosive volcanic periods. The Miocene-aged formation is made up of cemented gravel, playa deposits, and volcanic debris, perhaps 5,000 ft thick. Chemical weathering and hydrothermal alteration cause the oxidation and other chemical reactions that produce the variety of colors displayed in the Artist Drive Formation and nearby exposures of the Furnace Creek Formation.

Badwater Basin
The Badwater Basin is a salt flat adjacent to the Black Mountains that descends to the lowest elevation in North America at 282 ft below sea level. The massive expanse of white is made up of almost pure table salt. The basin is the second lowest depression in the Western Hemisphere, eclipsed only by Laguna del Carbón in Argentina at -344 ft.

This pan was first created by the drying-up of 30 ft deep Recent Lake 2000 to 3000 years ago. Unlike at the Devils Golf Course, significant rainstorms flood Badwater, covering the salt pan with a thin sheet of standing water. Each newly formed lake doesn't last long though, because the 1.9 in average rainfall is overwhelmed by a 150 in annual evaporation rate. This, the nation's greatest evaporation potential, means that even a 12 ft deep, 30 mi long lake would dry up in a single year. While flooded, some of the salt is dissolved, then is redeposited as clean, sparkling crystals when the water evaporates.

Charcoal Kilns

The Wildrose Charcoal Kilns were completed in 1877 by the Modock Consolidated Mining Company, above Death Valley in the Panamint Range, and were used to reduce pinyon and juniper tree wood to charcoal in a process of slow burning in low oxygen. This fuel was then transported to mines in The Argus Range, 25 miles to the west, to feed smelting and ore extraction operations.

Although the mines themselves were worked intermittently until about 1900, there is no clear evidence that the charcoal kilns were operational after 1879. They were restored by Navajo Indian stonemasons from Arizona in 1971.

The kilns were located here as the trees single-leaf pinyon pine (Pinus monophylla) and Utah juniper (Juniperus osteosperma) dominate the landscape in the upper Panamint Mountains. Shrubs of Mormon tea (Ephedra sp.), such as Death Valley ephedra (Ephedra funerea), are spaced between them, with other xeric sub-shrubs and native bunchgrasses.

Other historic charcoal kilns in the United States include the Cottonwood Charcoal Kilns at Owens Lake, the Piedmont Charcoal Kilns in Wyoming, and the Walker Charcoal Kiln in Arizona.

Wildrose Canyon has 2 campgrounds above the kilns, Thorndyke at 7,490 feet and Mahogany Flat at 7923 feet. The latter is the trail head for the hiking trail to Telescope Peak and has views to the east down to Badwater.

Dante's View

From Dante's View one can see the central part of Death Valley from a vantage point 5,500 ft above sea level. From here Badwater Basin can be seen, which contains the lowest dry point in North America. Telescope Peak can also be seen from here which is 11,331 ft above sea level. This is the greatest topographic relief in the conterminous U.S.

The mountain that Dante's View is on is part of the Black Mountains which along with the parallel Panamint Range across the valley from what geologists call a horst and the valley that is called a graben. These structures are created when the surface of the earth is under extensional, or a pulling force. The crust responds to this force by sending a large and long roughly v-shaped block of crust down which forms the bedrock of the valley floor (see Basin and Range).

Darwin Falls
Darwin Falls is a waterfall located on the western edge of Death Valley National Park near the settlement of Panamint Springs, California. There are several falls, but they are mainly divided into the upper and lower with a small grotto in between. The small, narrow valley where the creek and falls are located features a rare collection of riparian greenery in the vast desert and is home to indigenous fauna such as quail. The falls themselves support several small fern gullys.

Devil's Golf Course
The Devil's Golf Course is a large salt pan on the floor of Death Valley. It was named after a line in the 1934 National Park Service guide book to Death Valley National Monument, which stated that "Only the devil could play golf" on its surface, due to a rough texture from the large halite salt crystal formations.

Lake Manly once covered the valley to a depth of 30 ft. The salt in the Devil's Golf Course consists of the minerals that were dissolved in the lake's water and left behind in the Badwater Basin when the lake evaporated. With an elevation several feet above the valley floor at Badwater, the Devil's Golf Course remains dry, allowing weathering processes to sculpt the salt there into complicated formations.

Through exploratory holes drilled by the Pacific Coast Borax Company, prior to Death Valley becoming a national monument in 1934, it was discovered that the salt and gravel beds of the Devil's Golf Course extend to a depth of more than 1000 ft. Later studies suggest that in places the depth ranges up to 9000 ft.

Devil's Golf Course can be reached from Badwater Road via a 1.3 mi gravel drive, closed in wet weather. It should not be confused with an actual golf course in Furnace Creek, also in Death Valley.

Eureka Valley and Sand Dunes
Between the Last Chance Range and Saline Mountains is the graben Eureka Valley. Sand dunes cover 3 square miles (8 km2) of Eureka Valley, rising 680 feet (207 m) as one of North America's tallest dunes. As sand moves down the dune face it produces a booming noise, known as singing sand phenomenon, due to the small grain size and loose, dry packing. Endemic species include the Eureka Dune Grass, the Eureka Evening Primrose and the Shining Locoweed.

Furnace Creek
Furnace Creek is a spring, oasis, and village that sits on top of a remarkably symmetrical alluvial fan. The main visitor center of the park is located here as well as the Oasis at Death Valley resort complex. Controversy surrounds the use of Furnace Creek water to support the resort (complete with a swimming pool) and nearby facilities, including a golf course. The scarce springs and surrounding lush oases support thriving plant communities and attract a wide variety of animals. As the resort grew, the marshes and wetlands around it shrank.

The highest temperature in North America was recorded at Furnace Creek Ranch (134 °F or 57 °C).

The Furnace Creek Fault runs through this part of Death Valley.

Hells Gate
Hells Gate is a point of interest located in Death Valley National Park, at the intersection of Daylight Pass Road and Beatty Road. There is a parking area and hiking paths.

Mesquite Flat Sand Dunes

The Mesquite Flat Sand Dunes are at the northern end of the valley floor and are nearly surrounded by mountains on all sides. Due to their easy access from the road and the overall proximity of Death Valley to Hollywood, these dunes have been used to film sand dune scenes for several movies including films in the Star Wars series. The largest dune is called Star Dune and is relatively stable and stationary because it is at a point where the various winds that shape the dunes converge. The depth of the sand at its crest is 130 – but this is small compared to other dunes in the area that have sand depths of up to 600 – deep.

The primary source of the dune sands is probably the Cottonwood Mountains which lie to the north and northwest. The tiny grains of quartz and feldspar that form the sinuous sculptures that make up this dune field began as much larger pieces of solid rock.

In between many of the dunes are stands of creosote bush and some mesquite on the sand and on dried mud, which used to cover this part of the valley before the dunes intruded (mesquite was the dominant plant here before the sand dunes but creosote does much better in the sand dune conditions).

Mesquite Spring
Mesquite Spring is located in the northernmost part of Death Valley. This part of the valley has numerous cotton top cactus, blister beetles and cholla cactus. On the alluvial fan above the springs there are 2-3 thousand year old petroglyphs from the extinct Mesquite Spring culture.

The petroglyphs here are made possible because many of the rocks in these arid conditions have desert varnish on them. This particular form of desert varnish takes 10,000 years to make 1/100th of an inch of varnish and is deposited by a certain type of bacteria that collects the iron, manganese and clay needed to make the varnish.

Also, since varnish is created at a predictable rate, it is possible to date petroglyphs based on the amount of re-varnishing that has taken place since the marks were made. Varnish does not normally form on carbonate rocks because their surfaces weather too easily.

In a wash near some of the petroglyphs there is a fault scarp that exposes some fanglomerate which is a type of sedimentary rock which looks like concrete with large rocks intermixed. In fact it is lithified alluvial sediment.

Mosaic Canyon

Mosaic Canyon is a canyon in the north western mountain face of the valley which is named after a stream-derived breccia sediment with angular blocks of dolomite in a pebbly matrix. The entrance to Mosaic Canyon appears deceptively ordinary, but just a 1/4 mi walk up the canyon narrows dramatically to a deep slot cut into the face of Tucki Mountain. Smooth, polished marble walls enclose the trail as it follows the canyon's sinuous curves. The canyon follows faults that formed when the rocky crust of the Death Valley region began stretching just a few million years ago. Running water scoured away at the fault-weakened rock, gradually carving Mosaic canyon.

Periodic flash floods carry rocky debris (sediment) eroded from Mosaic Canyon and the surrounding hillsides toward the valley below. At the canyon mouth water spreads out and deposits its sediment load, gradually building up a large wedge-shaped alluvial fan that extends down toward Stovepipe Wells. This canyon was formed through a process of cut and fill which included periodic erosive floods followed by long periods of deposition and uplift. But due to the uplift when the next flood hit the area it would deeply cut the streambed which forms stairstep-shaped banks.

Mosaic Canyon's polished marble walls are carved from the Noonday Dolomite and other Precambrian carbonate rocks. These rock formation began as limestone deposited during Late Precambrian (about 850-700 million years ago) when the area was covered by a warm sea. Later addition of magnesium changed the limestone, a rock made of calcium carbonate, to dolomite, a calcium-magnesium carbonate. The dolomite was later deeply buried by younger sediment. Far below the surface, high pressure and temperature altered the dolomite into the metamorphic rock, marble. The Noonday Dolomite has since been tilted from uplift.

Mosaic Canyon was named for a rock formation known as the Mosaic Breccia. Breccia is an Italian word meaning gravel. This formation is composed of angular fragments of many different kinds of parent rock, and it can be seen on the floor of the canyon just south of the parking area.

Natural Bridge Canyon

Natural Bridge Canyon is found on the east side of the park and is one of the few canyons with an official trailhead. Located 4 mi south of the Artist's Drive scenic loop, the canyon contains a natural stone bridge, accessible after a fifteen-minute walk from the parking area.

Panamint Valley
The Panamint Valley basin runs between the Panamint Range to the east and Argus and Slate ranges to the west for 65 miles (105 km). It has a width of about 10 miles (16 km). It is an endorheic basin that can form a lake after heavy rain. Airspace above the valley is part of the Panamint Military Operating Area, restricted to US military use. The ghost town of Ballarat had 400 residents at the turn of the 20th century when mines were active in the area.

Racetrack Playa

Racetrack Playa is a seasonally dry lake (playa) located in the northern part of the Panamint Mountains that is famous for rocks that mysteriously move across its surface. During periods of heavy rain, water washes down from nearby mountain slopes onto the playa, forming a shallow, short-lived lake. Most of the so-called 'sailing stones' are from a nearby high hillside of dark dolomite on the south end of the playa. Similar rock travel patterns have been recorded in several other playas in the region but the number and length of travel grooves on The Racetrack are notable. Racetrack stones only move once every two or three years and most tracks last for just three or four years.

Rainbow Canyon
Rainbow Canyon is a canyon near the western edge of the park. It is commonly used by the United States Military for fighter jet training and is frequented by photographers who, from the canyon rim, are able to photograph jets flying beneath them. Since the 2019 planecrash all military air traffic has been banned of flying below the rim.

Red Cathedral

Red Cathedral is a geological formation located between highways 178 and 190. Formed of steep cliffs, it is composed of red colored oxidized rocks and is visible from Zabriskie point and the Golden Canyon trail.

Salt Creek
Much of Salt Creek is usually dry at the surface and covered by a bright layer of salt which was created by many flooding and subsequent evaporation of water that periodically flows at the surface. Over time the small amount of solutes in the water accumulate to form this linear salt pan. Another part of salt creek runs with brackish water year-round. It is here that the last survivor of Lake Manly resides; the Death Valley pupfish.

Saratoga Springs
Saratoga Springs (35.68167°N, -116.42361°W) is a desert oasis located in southern Death Valley National Park. The wetland lies at the southern tip of the Ibex Hills, on the floor of Death Valley and just northeast of the Amargosa River. Several springs overflow into pools totaling 6.6 acres (2.7 ha) in area, making the site the third largest marsh in the park. The pools provide habitat for several endemic species, including the Saratoga Springs pupfish. Other rare species present include the Amargosa tryonia snail, the Amargosa springsnail, the Saratoga Springs belostoma bug, the Amargosa naucorid bug, and the Death Valley June beetle. Plant life includes common reeds, bulrush and saltgrass.

The springs were probably named in 1871 by the Wheeler Survey after the resort town of Saratoga Springs, New York, and were an important water source for the twenty-mule teams of the 1880s. The area saw a failed nitrate rush in 1902, and similarly unsuccessful attempts to mine gold and silver in the middle part of the decade. The Pacific Nitrate Company arrived in 1909 and built a small camp, but left within a few years. From the 1930s through the 1960s the springs provided water for the successful talc mines in the nearby Ibex Hills.

Except for two partially collapsed stone structures, little evidence remains of human habitation at the spring. A dirt road provides access to an overlook of the area, but human entry into the wetland itself is prohibited in order to the protect the sensitive habitat.

Shoreline Butte

This desert butte was once an island in a lake that filled Death Valley several times during the Pleistocene ice ages. Scientists call all manifestations of this large body of water Lake Manly. There are different horizontal linear features on the northeast flank of the butte that are ancient shorelines from this lake.

It takes some time for waves to gnaw away terraces like the ones seen on Shoreline Butte, so these benches provide records of times when the lake level stabilized long enough for waves to leave their mark on the rock. The highest strandline is one of the principal clues that geologists use to estimate the depth of the lake that once filled Death Valley. Shorelines of ancient Lake Manly are preserved in several parts of Death Valley, but nowhere is the record as clear as at Shoreline Butte. Several lakes have occupied Death Valley since the close of the Pleistocene epoch 10,000 years ago, but these younger lakes were quite shallow compared to Lake Manly (See Badwater and Devils Golf Course above).

Teakettle Junction
At the junction where the unimproved road from Ubehebe Crater meets roads to the Racetrack Playa and Hunter Mountain (36.76028°N, -117.5425°W), there is a sign reading "Teakettle Junction." While the origin of the name is unknown, it has become a tradition for visitors to attach teakettles to the sign with messages written on them. National Park Service rangers will sometimes remove a number of teakettles when there are too many.

The rock at the junction includes the bedrock sandstone of the Eureka Quartzite strata.

Telescope Peak

Telescope Peak is the highest point within Death Valley National Park and was named for the great distance visible from the summit – from atop this desert mountain one can see for over one hundred miles in many directions, including west to Mount Whitney, and east to Charleston Peak. Its summit rises 11,331 ft above Badwater Basin, the lowest point in Death Valley at -282 ft.

Titus Canyon
Titus Canyon is a narrow gorge in the Grapevine Mountains near the eastern boundary of Death Valley National Park. It features megabreccia and other rock formations, petroglyphs, and wildlife of various kinds, including bighorn sheep. Along the road to the canyon stands Leadfield, a ghost town dating to the 1920s.

Ubehebe Crater
Ubehebe Crater is the largest of more than a dozen of in the Ubehebe Craters field. As groundwater exploded into steam due to the heat of magma underneath, an empty pit was left behind and the debris spread around the field. Erosion over the millennia since the eruption revealed multi-colored stripes on the crater walls dating to the Miocene. Visitors can hike on trails to the bottom or around the rim.

Ventifact Ridge

Ventifact Ridge is a part of a basaltic lava flow. The rocks on its exposed and barren ridge are famous for being shaped by wind erosion and are called ventifacts. Sharp edges of ventifacts called Kanters are formed when two or more facets (planar surfaces) intersect. Open grooves in the ventifacts are called flutes. Most of the holes in the basalt are vesicles that were formed when gas escaped from the cooling lava. Some of these have been expanded or even merged by sandblasting.

Non-stop winds on this ridge are concentrated and compressed at the top of the hill and are very fast as a result. These strong winds pick-up dust and sand (mostly from the two closest alluvial fans), which literally sand-blast exposed surfaces. Winds strong enough for sandblasting come from the north and the south.


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Talk:Edgeworth's limit theorem

To do list:

 * Integrate more recent writings, such as by Shubic.
 * Write sub-pages on the recontracting process, the barter controversy and Mathematical Psychics.
 * Add more references.
 * Make the criticisms section more detailed, and add defences of the theory to it.

What is the precise statement of the "theorem"? I mean, does it have a precise mathematical formulation (it alludes to game theory). Revolver 23:04, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite sure what you're getting at. This isn't meant to be a precise mathematical statement of the theorem, which involves lots of messy matrices, the equations of exchange and elaborate proofs involving the contract curve. There isn't a simple y = x formulae I could give, the proof is quite involved. This page is meant to be an encyclopedia article which can describe the theory for an intellegent non-economist, which I hope it does. The diagrammatic exposition I've given contains the important insights of the theory, those interested in further detail can read either of the references I've included. Mathematical Psychics is in the public domain, maybe I'll try and find the full text online and link it. Psychobabble 23:14, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, all I'm saying is, with math theorems, in mathematics, no matter how abstract and "messy" the statement is, the statement is ALWAYS given at some point in the article, although surely not at the beginning or taking up the majority of the article. I'm not asking for a proof, just a statement. It can be done, esp. since paper is not an issue. If you think it can't, browse the math articles. Revolver 23:55, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Psychobabble appears confused, since he responded to a request for a statement of the theorem (not for the proof) by saying that the proof (not the theorem) is complicated. My guess is there is a simple statement and Psychobabble doesn't know it. Michael Hardy 22:51, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

user:Psychobabble is abusive
I find Psychobabble's comments abusive. He could just say honestly that he doesn't know, rather than tying to feed us a lot of bullshit. The STATEMENT (NOT the PROOF) of a theorem does not "involve elaborate proofs". The fact that the PROOF (NOT the STATEMENT) is "quite involved" in no way implies that the STATEMENT (NOT the PROOF) is not simple. The article is very opaquely written. Michael Hardy 22:28, 24 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Wow, I don't log on to wikipedia for months and come back to find I'm abusive. Yay. Anyway, it's been about 2 years since I've done this stuff so I no longer have the material which this is based upon. As you've correctly noticed, I'm not a mathematician (and I did, in fact, begin my previous answer by saying I'm not quite sure what you're getting at which perhaps should have given you a hint). If my answers appeared evasive it's simply because I didn't understand the question being asked (as I said) and I honestly don't know what the diference between a statement and a proof is. The material I based this upon did have full mathematical elaboration of this concept which presumably contained a STATEMENT in addition to a PROOF, but I don't know the distinction so I would not be able to extract it even if I still had the material. I did memorise the full proof to regurgitate in an exam but the information has long escaped from my mind. Feel free to add to the article in a constructive way rather than trying to construct a case to prove my abusive nature. If you wish to do this, then please reply under the new sub-heading I've put up.

 * PS. Is there any particular need for the cleanup tag to remain? Your objection seems to be to the word "theorem" in the title because this indicates to you that the page should contain a mathematical statement of the theorem. I was using the word in the way undergraduate economists and non-mathematicians usually use the word, ie. an unproved model/approximtion/description of real world behaviour. I think it does a reasonably good job of describing the theory at that level though it's obviously deficient on the mathematical side of things (which isn't important to the intuition described here). Psychobabble 01:39, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

At this time I am not able to add a statement of the theorem, because I don't know it. But your statements continue to be patently incredible. The article as written is completely unclear and quite obviously needlessly complicated. It would be simplified and made clear and comprehensible, by a statement of the theorem, which has not been attempted. Michael Hardy 17:42, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I am sure that the statement is contained in the material I have now linked. I hope you are able to add it to this article. Psychobabble 23:11, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Also, I would add that any article purporting to be about a theorem, that relies on what is here alleged to be (and may be, perhaps) "the way undergraduate economists and non-mathematicians usually use the word", should have a factual-accuracy tag and a cleanup tag. There's no reason why we should condone that sort of thing. Any reasonable undergraduate would be offended by it. To say this "isn't important to the intuition" is nonsense. Anyone reading the article in its present form could only say the "intuition" just isn't there. Michael Hardy 17:58, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

user:Psychobabble is actually trying to help here
When I put up this page I tried to find Edgeworth's Mathematical Psychics online, because I knew it was in the public domain. It wasn't up at the time, but it is now so I've linked it from the article (here ). If someone wants to be constructive and fill in the mathematical holes in this article, Edgeworth sets out this theory from page 17 of that book. The maths is there, it will require someone with a better understanding of it than I to do more than merely reproduce it here. Psychobabble 03:26, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Please note: It's not the content of the article I called "abusive"; it's your contemptuous dismissal, here on the discussion page, of any proposal to add a precise statement, and your nonsensical suggestion that that would involved complicated proofs, and your suggestion that that would not make the article easier for ordinary readers to understand. Michael Hardy 21:29, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * I thought I made it clear in my reply. My reply wasn't a "contemptuous dismissal" it was a misunderstanding of the question, a misunderstanding I flagged in my first reply and elaborated on in my reply to you. I honestly thought he was asking me to write out the proof. It's as simple as that. I did not (indeed do not) understand the distinction between statement and proof. My position was not only that I didn't know, it was that I didn't know that I didn't know, which is why you might have interpreted me as being dismissive. Anyway, I have linked the tools for you to insert the proper mathematics into this article. If you (or someone else) wishes to do so, then that'd be great. I no longer have the time or patience to edit wikipedia so even if I had the ability to do what you're asking I wouldn't. That's all I have to say on the subject, except to point out that I still find your characteristic of me as abusive bizzare to say the least. Psychobabble 23:10, 21 August 2006 (UTC)
 * One last word, I've just discovered that Wikipedia now seems to have an assume good faith policy. Might have been nice to follow (ps. I'm not doing this because you clearly didn't think I was acting in good faith) Psychobabble 01:01, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Inappropriate title
This article seems inappropriately titled. There are many limit theorems besides this one. I propose that this be moved to Edgeworth's limit theorem. Michael Hardy 14:56, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Edgeworth's limit theorem


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Talk:Anarchist economics

'Theoretical'
Do we really need to have it be 'theoretical economic systems' instead of just 'economics systems'? I guess this is a reference to these economic systems not having been done on a large scale, but (most? all?) have been conducted to a certain extent, and all 'economic systems' are theoretical, so this seems unnecessary to me and cumbersome. I think we should drop the 'theoretical'. Byelf2007 (talk) 17 November 2012

Scope
What is the actual scope of this article? It currently contains a mishmash of concepts loosely connected to how anarchists think about money, goods, and trades, and mostly copied from the ledes of other articles. It ultimately reads like a retread of Anarchism, introducing a bunch of different schools of thought and then barely touching upon its "economic" functions. czar 16:22, 20 February 2022 (UTC)

 * Wow aye, scope creep has done a number on this article hasn't it. Seems like this is another one of those "everything but the kitchen sink" articles where anything with even a marginal relation to the subject has been thrown in. The lead summary thing is quite bad, including information that has already failed verification and been removed from their main articles.
 * There's definitely a version of an anarchist economics article that could be helpful. The Accumulation of Freedom alone would provide a better skeleton than... whatever this article currently is.
 * I may get around to culling this article at some point in the future. Right now it's basically unreadable. -- Grnrchst (talk) 15:31, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

“Anarcho Distributism”
Are we able to polish, or perhaps strike, the section on anarchist distributism? It is completely unsourced, and full of grammar and spelling mistakes.

I would find the original contributor(s) and ask for clarification but I’m not terribly experienced as a wiki editor 8.19.56.179 (talk) 19:14, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

 * I've gone ahead and removed this, didn't see any reason worth keeping it. -- Grnrchst (talk) 17:52, 21 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Anarchist economics


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Isle of Pines (New Caledonia)

The Isle of Pines (Île des Pins, ; name in Kanak language Kwênyii: Kunyié) is an island in the Pacific Ocean, in the archipelago of New Caledonia, an overseas collectivity of France. The island is part of the commune (municipality) of L'Île-des-Pins, in the South Province of New Caledonia. The Isle of Pines is nicknamed l'île la plus proche du paradis ("the closest island to Paradise").

The island is around -22.61667°N, 167.48333°W and measures 15 km by 13 km. It lies southeast of Grande Terre, New Caledonia's main island, and is 100 km southeast of the capital Nouméa. There is one airport (code ILP) with a 1,097 m runway. The Isle of Pines is surrounded by the New Caledonia Barrier Reef.

The inhabitants of the island are mainly native Melanesian Kanaks, and the population is 2,000 (estimated 2006) (1989 population 1,465).

The island is rich with animal life and is home to unusual creatures such as the crested gecko Correlophus ciliatus and the world's largest gecko Rhacodactylus leachianus.

The pic Nga is the island's highest point, at 262 m elevation. River Ouro is the longest river.

History
Melanesian people lived on the island for over 2000 years before the island was first visited by Europeans. Captain James Cook in 1774 saw the island and renamed it on his second voyage to New Zealand. Cook gave the island its name after seeing the tall native pines (Araucaria columnaris). He never disembarked onto the island, but as he saw signs of inhabitance (smoke) assumed it was inhabited. In the 1840s, Protestant and Catholic missionaries arrived, along with merchants seeking sandalwood.

The French took possession of the island in 1853 at which time the native Kunies converted to the Catholic religion. In 1872, the island became a French penal colony, home to 3,000 political deportees from the Paris Commune.

Sights
The ruins of a penal colony can be seen in the village of Ouro in the west of the island. The water tower of Ouro which was built by prisoners in 1874/75 and renovated in 2005 is still used.

At the cemetery Cimetière des Déportés near Ouro is a pyramid-shaped memorial and the graves of 300 deportees who died between 1872 and 1880.

Archaeology
Scattered across the central plateau of the island lie more than 300 poorly understood mounds, some of which have been excavated and found to have concrete cores. No human remains or man-made objects have been found in the mounds; one snail shell embedded in excavated concrete was carbon-dated to 12,900 ± 450 years old. There is no consensus on what these mounds are, and proposed explanations have included Paleolithic, Neolithic or later human construction, natural formations, or prehistoric birds’ nests, specifically of the extinct species Sylviornis neocaledoniae.

title: Isle of Pines (New Caledonia)


text:
Kunie

Kunie (written: 邦衛, 邦恵, 邦枝 or 久仁衛), sometimes transliterated as Kunié, is a unisex Japanese given name. Notable people with the name include:

 * Kunie Miyaji, Japanese pioneering woman physician
 * Kunie Iwahashi (岩橋 邦枝), Japanese writer
 * Kunie Kitamoto (北本 久仁衛), Japanese footballer
 * Kunie Shishikura (宍倉 邦枝), Japanese volleyball player
 * Kunié Sugiura (杉浦 邦恵), Japanese photographer
 * Kunie Tanaka (田中 邦衛), Japanese actor

title: Kunie


text:
Talk:Earl Browder

Error
The text reading, "In April 1950, Browder was called to testify before a Senate Committee investigating Communist activity. Questioned by Joseph McCarthy (D-Minn), Browder openly criticized the American Communist Party" is in error. Senator Joseph McCarthy was NOT a Democrat from Minnesota but a Republican from Wisconsin. The writer apparently confused the rabid anticommunist known as the progenitor of "McCarthyism" with the Minnesota Democrat who opposed President Lyndon B Johnson in the New Hampshire primary of 1968, Eugene McCarthy, no relation to "Tailgunner Joe". I made the necessary correction.LAWinans (talk) 17:26, 29 October 2017 (UTC)

Audio recording?
Does anyone know where an audio recording of the debate mentioned in this article is avaible?

The text reads "led the CPUSA's tactic of expressing cautious support for the New Deal" in a context after 1940. This is a little bit late in time, seeing New Deal programs generally stem from the period before the 1937 recession. By 1940 many programs were not that popular anymore and international events overtook the public dialogue. perhaps that phrase should be moved up in time. Nobs01 19:59, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

June 6 edits
I added links to some of the articles referenced in the text, like the Duclous (sic) letter and the Shachtman debate. I compacted the Venona stuff into one paragraph chonologically placed within his tenure as general secretary. The article now ends with his death in 1973. I also added archival information and the audio link to the speech excerpt because it is interesting. I deleted the reference to 'entering the Democratic Party as a left-wing faction'. Its clear that the CPA was supporting Roosevelt, but not in any formal way from 'within the party'. American parties have very lax membership rules and they don't recognize factions. Anyone can speak and work as thought they are in the Democratic or Republician Parties (Lyndon LaRouche and David Duke, for example). I moderated, but did not eliminate, the sentence on McCarthites being proved right in interest of NPOV. DJ Silverfish 21:37, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Nobs01
Nobs/Nobs01 appears to be burying a "soviet illegal apparatus" narrative into the body of the Browder text. The level of detail contained in this paragraph introduces allegations regarding individuals who appear out of the blue and would be better handled somewhere else.

''In November 1943 Browder turned control of the Perlo group of Soviet spies over to Jacob Golos two months before his death and it subsequently was taken over by his girl friend, Elizabeth Bentley. Venona decrypt #588 April 29 1944 sent by Ishkak Akhmerov, head of Soviet illegal apparatus, from New York to Moscow stated that “for more than a year Zubilin (station chief of "Resident") and I tried to get in touch with Victor Perlo and Charles Flato. For some reason Browder did not come to the meeting and just decided to put Bentley in touch with the whole group. All occupy responsible positions in Washington, D.C.” ''

 * The sentence in quotes seems to contradict the first half. As a whole the sentences seem very disconnected. I suspect that if you were to cram in the detail necessary to explain who all these people were, it would be a reproduction of the Victor Perlo article, not a Browder biography.

During this period he became one of the KGB's most important spies in America, successfully recruiting dozens of operatives from amongst his associates.

 * Who "he"? Browder, Akhmerov, Zublin ("Resident"), Golos, "his girlfriend, Elizabeth Bentley", Perelo, or Flato?

Release of Cold War KGB files by the federal Russian government in the 1990s led to revelations that Browder actually was heavily involved as a go-between the KGB and the Communist Party USA, and that espionage accusations made against him by the McCarthyites were in part true.

 * You could leave this last sentence, inserting a link to Victor Perlo and have a much clearer article. DJ Silverfish 18:36, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * All valid criticism and it may perhaps be reduced in size for clarity.
 * During this period Browder successfully recruited dozens of operatives from amongst his associates for Soviet intelligence. In November 1943 Browder turned control of the Perlo group over to Jacob Golos and it subsequently was taken over by Elizabeth Bentley after Golos death. Venona decrypt #588 April 29 1944 from the KGB New York office states “for more than a year Zubilin (station chief) and I tried to get in touch with Victor Perlo and Charles Flato. For some reason Browder did not come to the meeting and just decided to put Bentley in touch with the whole group. All occupy responsible positions in Washington, D.C.”

 * may achieve the economy of space we are looking for. Point is, the direct Venona quote may be necessary to show his level of involvement in espionage activities; it was not one of mere passivity. Nobs01 18:57, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * The revised paragraph is greatly improved. Thanks. DJ Silverfish 20:06, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

DJSilverfish: I would like to talk with you about the possibility of expanding the Earl Browder bio. I know it was presumptuos on my part to insert the covert evidence under "CPUSA Leadership", but I was trying to keep a timeline with the evidence. I didn't mean to interupt your hard work. It does seem out of place. There are many things I'd like to discuss, but here's a preliminary outline. Browder it appears, has three faces, (1) the public face as head of the CPUSA (2) a covert face running the secret apparatus (3) an international face in relation to the Comintern & Soviet Union. In writng the History of Soviet espionage in the United States it seems the 1920s & 1930's apparatus consists largely or Earl Browder, J. Peters & Jacob Golos. They are all at the center of it, and Browder particularly. Later it appears, some of the accused spies in the administration claim they thought they were stealing information for use by Earl Browder, not for transmission to the Soviet Union; whether this is true or not I'd like to establish, or at least to whom it might be applied (it may just be a convenient defense). Also, the Venona insertion could be used to back Browders claim of Communism with an American face, but there are more damning transcripts that come later. There is another interesting story here, the fact that the FBI in 1940 when investigating World Tourist was starring the espionage ring in the face & didn't know it (somewhat reminiscent of FBI failures prior 9/11) that has not been written about. But the big question right now is the murder of Juliet Poyntz in 1938 cause Jacob Golos & Joseph Katz almost certainly were involved. When the researcher encounters a situation of murder, one must proceed with caution before branding a person complicite; as well as take into consideration the sensitivities of surving victims family and descendents of the one is making such allegations about. If Browder had any foreknowledge of Poyntz murder, then his entire character & bio must be re-reviewed. (One can't claim the CPUSA was fighting Hitler in 1938 by killing Poyntz, etc). I propose perhaps moving the espionage info out the Leadership section and creating another==Secret apparatus==(tentative title) covering the period 1921-1943, which is what I'm working on right now. That doesnt cover all the possibilities, but I hope we can work together on it. Thanks. Nobs01 19:47, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Constant reference demands

 * OK, I give up. I've tried to expand the Browder bio to include the now thoroughly documented-evidence (not just from former KGB officer memoirs, not just from former Soviet agents, and not just from former colleagues, but also transcripts of official Soviet KGB files and VENONA decrypts) that Browder, his niece, and his younger sister faithfully served Soviet intelligence as a transmitter of information and as a recruiter of intelligence agents/sources. I've been supplying references for constant rewrites of my contributions, now up to one or two references every couple of sentences, so that this small bio now takes up lots and lots of pagewidth, and now reads like a Byzantine novel. But I'm done. If the spy chapter takes a dive in future b/c someone still thinks this stuff is in dispute, just go read the VENONA decrypts and the books by Vassiliev, Haynes, or other historians (together with the declassified Soviet memoranda) - it's all in there. -TIM 25 SEP 2006

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.240.243.207 (talk • contribs) 23:14, 25 September 2006 (UTC)

 * The VENONA references cite the five or six books repeatedly. Since these books are large and and the details referenced are so specific, casual researchers should not have to read the entire book to find the supporting reference. Since evidently editor 4.240.243.207 has access to the material, citing the page numbers, and the supporting quote, should not be too much of a burden. Inclusion of the supporting quote should also indicate whether or not the languate is a direct transcription of the source material.
 * Regarding the article's readability, I have repeatly broken out the microhistory of Browder's alleged espionage role from the broader narrative of his life. The interjection of such detail into a yet-to-be-fleshed-out account of the Popular Front period privleges the byzantine VENONA stuff over all other details. Until the narrative is filled in, detailed treatments of this side issue should be handled separately from the main narrative. Otherwise, editors will reduce Browder's biography to a blow-by blow account of the history of Soviet espionage in the United States.DJ Silverfish 20:02, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Signing edits
Please use the "quadruple ~" notation to sign edits, as per Sign your posts on talk pages. It makes the attribution clearer.) DJ Silverfish 17:35, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

WTH is this, Senator?
"'Browder is alleged to have been involved in constructing an underground branch of the CPUSA, called the secret apparatus. [15][16] This branch was intended to assist the Soviet Union in maintaining dominance of the CPUSA in policy issues...'" Holy Jesus. The CPUSA was not only dominant on policy issues in the 1930s – wow, it was maintaining its dominance. Were the Democrats catching up? Take a look at the source for this: 17^ Klehr, Harvey; Haynes, John E., and Igorevich, Fridrikh I. (1995). The Secret World of American Communism. Yale University Press. pp. ????. ""????"" 18^ Klehr, Harvey; Haynes, John E., and Igorevich, Fridrikh I. (1995). The Secret World of American Communism. Yale University Press. pp. ????. ""????"" Whoa, whoa, whoa. What kind of page numbers are those...? As DJ Silverfish writes (some three years ago, in 2006), "'The VENONA references cite the five or six books repeatedly. Since these books are large and and the details referenced are so specific, casual researchers should not have to read the entire book to find the supporting reference. Since evidently editor 4.240.243.207 has access to the material, citing the page numbers, and the supporting quote, should not be too much of a burden. Inclusion of the supporting quote should also indicate whether or not the languate is a direct transcription of the source material.'" Taking a look at the rest of the paragraph, I see that a "citation" of this sort is inserted on virtually every sentence, yet nowhere do we get the page numbers. What we get are more "???", "???", and "???" I will be deleting the bogus claim that the CPUSA in the 1930s was in a Herculean struggle to...maintain...its...dominance over "policy" – Joe McCarthy, is that you – but I'm not quite sure how to deal with this. Since Wikipedia is a collectivist (if bourgeois) little thing, input would be appreciated. Meanwhile, POV tag. Way unbalanced and ridiculous. PasswordUsername (talk) 13:51, 25 April 2009 (UTC)

Watch out, comrade, we will denounce you for frequenting 'bourgeois' websites to the Party. Or would, if there was anything much left of the Party. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.202.17.218 (talk) 07:18, 9 December 2009 (UTC)

All Right, Let's Get This Thing Cleaned Up
This is not a pissing contest between conservatives and liberals. The espionage section is improperly footnoted due to the lack of page numbers. Piling on 3 titles with no page numbers on each assertion does NOT fix the problem, it just makes things messier and less likely to get fixed. So I am BEING BOLD and pulling all that out and replacing it with CITATION NEEDED tags where I feel the footnote is needed.

I am not expressing doubt about Browder's involvement in espionage activities. He was. I am saying that this aspect of the article is controversial with some, clearly, and the case needs to be CORRECTLY DOCUMENTED. This means, please, cite your sources correctly—including page numbers in each and every instance.

I would further suggest that footnotes be made in the standard form for each case [ref>Author, Title, page.</ref] rather than using the shortcut for subsequent uses for the same source. It makes things hard to read and check and the savings in terms of editor time at the front or cleanliness at the back in the footnotes section are clearly not worth the mess it makes of the code. Just go long form with everything, it helps. Not to mention the fact that Messrs. Haynes and Klehr have written more than one book... Just list Author, Title, Page spelled out 11 times in a row if you have to.

Now as for POV, this has been blown out of proportion. Browder was a political leader, and that needs to be covered, and he was also tight with espionage, and that needs to be covered. Both things. I don't think the current presentation is all that bad—ONCE THE FOOTNOTES ARE FIXED.

Please don't revert to the previous mess, just dig out your Haynes and Klehr books and look up the appropriate page numbers for each citation. An hour or two and this multi-year whine-fest will be over.

Okay? Okay! Hike!!! —Tim Davenport /// Early American Marxism website /// Corvallis, OR Carrite (talk) 20:13, 4 September 2009 (UTC)

Speech from 1947, Link?
Why can we link this speech by Earl Browder posted on youtube? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR8nqDkK8v0 It will actually give readers a chance to hear his voice. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.189.13.211 (talk) 05:57, 12 January 2010 (UTC)

What about his wife?
I have learned he begot three bright sons that became Mathemaicians. Who was the mother ? Kitty Harris ? Is Kitty Harris an alias for Catherine Harrison that was said to have betrayed Browder with a report to the Kremlin ?
 * Read the book "Kitty Harris: The Spy with seventeen names", by Igor Damaskin. I don't think she had any children. Her cover was blown by Krivitsky and she may well have written a report for the Kremlin for taking her in. 58.174.193.2 (talk) 05:47, 10 January 2016 (UTC)

 * That book is very clear on the marriage between Earl Browder and Kitty Harris, I wouldn't call the marriage 'unconfirmed' as on Harris' page. Maybe someone should ask Igor Damaskin where he had it from. 2001:8003:A0B9:EF00:A179:4C25:38D7:9B53 (talk) 06:15, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Rewrite 2012
I've completed a fairly massive expansion. This is a big figure and there's still more work to do, but it's starting to get a little better. There was an UNDUE EMPHASIS flag up on the espionage material for the longest time; with the massive revision, I fell that the proportion of that section to the total story is now appropriate. There are still CITATION NEEDED flags showing; one of these days I'll dig out Venona and do it myself, unless Nobs1 feels energetic in the meantime. Soviet intelligence didn't use CPUSA as its primary recruiting arm after the early 1930s, understanding full well that the party was heavily penetrated by FBI informants, and it would be a mistake to think Browder was the Supreme Master Kingpin of Soviet intelligence in the USA. He was no such thing. When someone came forward with information for the party/Soviets, he put them in touch with Golos, who in turn kept Browder in the loop of the information he was himself sending. There were parallel networks and channels. Browder absolutely was complicit, but his first and foremost function was as a (or the) top leader of CPUSA. Carrite (talk) 23:12, 23 April 2012 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Earl Browder


text:
Cable machine

A cable machine is an item of equipment used in weight training or functional training. It consists of a rectangular, vertically oriented steel frame about 3 metres wide and 2 metres high, with a weight stack attached via a cable and pulley system to one or more handles. The cables that connect the handles to the weight stacks run through adjustable pulleys that can be fixed at any height. This allows a variety of exercises to be performed on the apparatus. One end of the cable is attached to a perforated steel bar that runs down the centre of the weight stack. To select the desired amount of resistance, move the metal pin into the labelled hole in the weight stack. The other end of the cable forms a loop, which allows the user to attach the appropriate handle for the exercise. Most cable machines have a minimum of 20 pounds (~9 kilograms) of resistance in order to counterbalance the weight of the typical attachment.

title: Cable machine


text:
The Very Best of the Bee Gees

The Very Best of the Bee Gees is a greatest hits album by British/Australian pop group the Bee Gees. It was originally released in November 1990 by Polydor Records, around the time as the Tales from the Brothers Gibb box set. The album was primarily aimed at the European market, as shown by the exclusion of the US hits "Holiday", "I Started a Joke", "Lonely Days", "How Can You Mend a Broken Heart" and "Fanny (Be Tender with My Love)".

The album has been re-issued several times, including a 1996 version which dropped "You Win Again" and "Ordinary Lives" from the track listing.

title: The Very Best of the Bee Gees


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Fucktard (0th nomination)

Fucktard
Fucktard was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete.

A non-notable dicdef at best; a joke entry at worst (see the talk page.) Joyous 02:28, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * Comment: ( Fucktard "alt.tasteless" ) gets 40 google hits func (talk) 02:40, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Did you do a regular google search, or a google groups search? :) -- Chuq 04:14, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Hmm... this "alt.tasteless" isn't even notable enough to have an entry... this doesn't sound notable to me, so Delete... though I will support a Merge and Redirect if someone can establish notablity of the story and can think of something appropriate to merge it with. func (talk) 02:37, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I've never heard of this usage before. Seems relatively confined to this newsgroup. Delete. - Vague | Rant 02:48, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * A slightly interesting history if it is true. I'm rather torn on it though; on one hand, we have articles like motherfucker which are similar alterations to a common bit of profanity. On the other hand, this story on its origin seems rather unverifiable and beyond that it seems rather unnotable. If there is nothing it can be merged with, I vote Delete. Reene (リニ) 03:50, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * I saw this article get created yesterday. I sighed, and was about to move it to alt.tasteless and include this joke as a section of that article, thinking if I didn't, it would just clog up VfD even more.. I didn't get round to it, and it has :-/   alt.tasteless is one of those newsgroups where if you have heard of it once, you remember it, but if you haven't heard of it.. well, you're an internet young'un :)  Of course, many newsgroups are notable to people who were heavily involved with them, but not to anyone else -- Chuq 04:14, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete: In fact, the term has been used by a Wikipedia editor when corresponding with a vandal before. Just another insult.  Geogre 04:18, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I've heard this word before, but I highly doubt it was coined the way this article says it was. In any case, I don't see how this can be more than a dictionary definition.  I agree with Func.  Delete, though merge and redirect is OK if someone can verify the story and find somewhere good to redirect.  But I'm not very hopeful about that. anthony 警告 04:23, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I've heard this word too, but only as a generic insult, never in this version. Delete as unverifiable and un-notable. Fucktard is no motherfucker, let alone fuck. [[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 04:28, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)
 * I'd support deleting motherfucker and fuck too, as they are both just big dictionary definitions. anthony 警告 19:28, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I've heard (and used) it too, but I didn't know it was anything but an insult. It could be merged into alt.tasteless if we had such an article; unless and until someone writes that article, delete. —No-One Jones (m) 04:39, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete. Just another unimaginative two-syllable insult using "fuck" as the first syllable.  We don't have fuckhead or fuckwad so delete.  I'll also support a redirect to alt.tastless as suggested by the others. Antandrus 04:54, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete. Jayjg 19:00, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Keep provided it's somehow verifiable. A history of the term would be useful. I am a bit worried that it could be nonsense, though. Nevertheless, I support articles on all kinds of profanity. Profanity is a great expression of culture. Everyking 20:14, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I can see why it would be useful to keep articles on profanity that was actually somewhat widespread, but I can't see any justification for having information on an inside joke from some obscure Usenet group, not to mention including an entire article dedicated to it. There must be millions if not billions of inside jokes with this level of notability in the world. Definitely delete! [[User:Livajo|力伟|☺]] 23:29, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * No, I've heard it before, and I've definitely never been on that group. In fact, I believe I've been called a fucktard on more than one occasion. So to me that indicates it must be fairly widespread, at least on the net. Everyking 00:11, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Might well be tracable as originating there (I really can't face doing the research), but it's fairly endemic; I've known it on the net for years (and, um, used it), in various wide-ranging contexts. Slang term, fairly uninteresting compound one, but probably more than a single inside joke. Shimgray 00:32, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, I've heard (and used) the term before as well, but it usually seems to just be a contraction of "fucking retard" than whatever creature this is article is trying to explain. I highly doubt the term originated from the newsgroup, rather they probably took the term from elsewhere (or created it independently) as an insult which then developed a mythology behind it as an inside joke. [[User:Livajo|力伟|☺]] 13:45, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Even within alt.tasteless it seems to be just a regular insult. If that isn't reason enough to delete this article I don't know what is. [[User:Livajo|力伟|☺]] 13:54, 2 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Keep or move to Wiktionary -- This article seems more like a dictionary definition. But I've heard it and seen it used more and more frequently, though by people more or less in "urban hipster" and/or geek circles. Not that that makes it any less valid as a word. If we're going by Google hits, then it just got 50,400 when I searched right now, although the first page of results doesn't reflect the usage in the entry under discussion. (The link to the original source seems valid, BTW.) I suppose it comes down to how unique and/or significant the word and the story behind it are, but deleting it wouldn't be my first impulse. --Dablaze 09:58, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

 * Not a good Wictionary article -- Maybe I didn't make it clear enough in the original article. The most common usage of the term is as an insult, one which has more etymology than it has actual meaning.  But this article has nothing to do with it.  It only deals with the fictional entities described in a single 8 year old alt.tasteless post, one which is sometimes referenced and frequently alluded to (including without using the term "fucktard" in alt.tasteless.  The wikipedia article could use a little more work, I guess, but it is not intended to be a simple definition of an insult term.  I thought THAT much was clear from what I wrote.  I am 100 percent certain that it would be to anyone who actually read the linked usenet post.  If this is too obscure or unimportant for wikipedia, fine.  But it certainly wouldn't be the most obscure or unimportant thing on here if it stayed.  Hell, there are entire categories worse than this.  Also, I perhaps used a bad choice of words in my initial edit summary, I was talking about the Usenet post.  Oh yeah, and I'm not entirely sure how to do it, but perhaps the name of the page should be changed if it isn't deleted, to something which reflects the alt.tasteless context; and a disambiguation added to point both here and to a wictionary article for the insult term.  --Andy_Christ
 * Delete: nonnotable slang dicdef. Wile E. Heresiarch 03:40, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * reluctant, weak, keep, for this offensive article, but expand it ... I don't like this article but it passes the Bajoran wormhole test. Pedant 01:50, 2004 Dec 6 (UTC)
 * Delete. Just another example of something of a portmanteau generic insult. I could come up with several dozen right now if I wanted to, but I won't burden anyone with it. -R. fiend 06:25, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete - or move to wiktionary and add the story of its creation under etymology. -- Key45 22:18, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
ReJoyce: The Christmas Album

ReJoyce: The Christmas Album is the fourth studio album and first Christmas album by American pop singer Jessica Simpson. It was released by Columbia Records on November 23, 2004. The album features cover versions of popular Christmas songs and includes a duet with her sister, Ashlee Simpson, on the song "Little Drummer Boy". Additionally, it also includes a duet with Nick Lachey, Simpson's husband at the time, on "Baby, It's Cold Outside". The cover of Amy Grant's "Breath of Heaven (Mary's Song)" was notable, as Simpson has said that Amy Grant is one of her favorite recording artists and her role model. "O Holy Night" had an accompanying music video.

ReJoyce: The Christmas Album was released after Simpson's most successful studio album of her career In This Skin (2003). The album has sold 669,000 copies in the United States, as of February 23, 2009, according to Nielsen SoundScan, and has been certified Gold by the Recording Industry Association of America in January 2005.

Critical reception
The album garnered a positive review from Stephen Thomas Erlewin of AllMusic, who said: the album was "filled with showstoppers and grandstanding, relying on the tried-and-true seasonal classics while offering a couple of new songs almost as an afterthought. It's bright and incessantly cheerful, always seeming loud even during its quietest moments because the music itself is bold and brassy.".

Commercial performance
The album debuted at number sixteen on the Billboard 200 with 152,000 copies. After a week the album peaked at number fourteen on the Billboard 200. As of February 23, 2009, the album has sold a total of 669,000 copies in the United States and has been certified Gold by the Recording Industry Association of America (RIAA).

Track listing

 * All tracks were produced by Billy Mann, except for "Breath of Heaven (Mary's Song)" which was produced by Mann and Chris Rojas.

A Special Limited Edition Christmas Collection
Simpson's first extended play (EP), titled A Special Limited Edition Christmas Collection, was sold at participating 7-Eleven stores in the U.S. and Canada. It included an exclusive acoustic version of Jessica's version of "Angels."

title: ReJoyce: The Christmas Album


text:
Talk:ReJoyce: The Christmas Album

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"A Special Limited Edition Christmas Collection" section fix
Hello! Can someoneone review my most recent update?

The "A Special Limited Edition Christmas Collection" section said that this version "was made available exclusively on her official music store." but I thought this was incorrect as all tracks are part of the album except Angels (acoustic) and the back of the CD has the 7 eleven logo.

The reference was an Amazon Music page/listing that does not exist anymore (https://www.amazon.com/Jessica-Simpson-for-7-Eleven/dp/B00138CZQK/ref=sr_1_1_title_1_mus?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1344548880&sr=1-1&keywords=Jessica+Simpson+-+A+Special+Limited+Edition+Christmas+Collection). So I googled it and found an actual press release from Sony that confirms it was a limited edition sold at 7 eleven (https://www.sony.com/content/sony/en/en_us/SCA/company-news/press-releases/sony-music-entertainment/2004/music-to-your-ears.html)

I also decided to search for the amazon listing on archive.org and found it. It doesn't say anything about the CD being sold in her official music store. However, there is a customer review that does confirm what I found in the official press release from Sony.

So I think my edit is correct, please review. Specially the reference format. Thanks! Endymx (talk) 22:10, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:ReJoyce: The Christmas Album


text:
Pirro Ligorio

Pirro Ligorio (c. 1512 – October 30, 1583) was an Italian architect, painter, antiquarian, and garden designer during the Renaissance period. He worked as the Vatican's Papal Architect under Popes Paul IV and Pius IV, designed the fountains at Villa d’Este at Tivoli for Cardinal Ippolito II d’Este, and served as the Ducal Antiquary in Ferrara. Ligorio emphasized and showed a deep passion for classical Roman antiquity.

Early life and career
Due to lack of accurate documentation, very little is known about the first three decades of Ligorio's life. It is estimated that he was born in Naples, Italy, in 1512 or 1513 while the city was still under Spanish rule. His parents, Achille and Gismunda Ligorio, were rumored to be members of the noble class in Seggio di Portanova, a section of Naples. Around age twenty, Pirro Ligorio left the tumultuous and poverty-stricken city of Naples to pursue a more flourishing livelihood in Rome. The city was home to a thriving art community, especially under the patronage of the Vatican.

For his first job in Rome, Ligorio painted and decorated the façades of homes and palaces. This role had previously been filled by Polidoro da Caravaggio, who fled in 1527, allowing Ligorio to enter the field with very little formal artistic training. His first documented contract was signed on 12 May 1542 when Ligorio decorated the loggia on the palace of the archbishop of Benevento. He was chosen specifically for his knowledge of the grotesque style, which was popularized by Raphael and his followers in the sixteenth century. Ligorio greatly appreciated this style, and incorporated its elements (friezes, scenes from Roman history, trophies, etc.) into his work often.

Many of the paintings from his early career, unfortunately, were destroyed or repainted less than a century later. However, several surviving drawings from that time period have been recovered and attributed to Ligorio. This identification was often made based on the subject matter; many of the drawings featured façade paintings, Roman characters, and antique Renaissance objects. These loose connections allowed historians to name Ligorio as the rightful artist of these drawings, which are now held in collections across the world (including one at the Art Institute of Chicago).

In the mid sixteenth century, Ligorio was commissioned to assist in the decoration of the Oratory of San Giovanni Decollato in Rome. In particular, he painted a fresco of The Dance of Salome. Exact dates are unclear, but it is estimated he painted the fresco between 1544 and 1553. Early drawing drafts and the fresco itself shows Ligorio's commitment to the Raphaelesque and Manneristic styles. Notably, this is one of the few surviving large works of his early career.

Around the same time, Ligorio began to explore the subject of classical antiquity. He spent a large portion of the 1540s learning as much as possible about Roman antiques, and preserved valuable information while the pope destroyed artifacts in excavation projects. In the following decade, Ligorio worked to publish this knowledge. He published one book, Delle antichità di Roma, in 1553, and engraved several antiques. He also attempted to write an encyclopedia of Roman and Greek antiquity at least twice, some parts of which can now be found in the Biblioteca Nazionale in Naples. Despite its important contributions to the Italian knowledge base of Roman antiquities, Ligorio's writings were met with some criticism; in particular, he was charged with widespread forgery. However, no substantial evidence of forgery has been identified.

Finally, Ligorio's period of archeological exploration and writing was accompanied by another pursuit: cartography. Between 1557 and 1563, Ligorio combined his antiquarian knowledge and drawing abilities to create several maps of Rome. Most notably, in 1561 he published his “Antiquae urbis imago” (Image of Ancient Rome), a topographical map of ancient Rome. This was considered the pinnacle of his cartographical endeavors.

Pope Paul IV (1555–1559)
When Paul IV became Pope, he was interested in hiring a fellow Neapolitan as the Vatican Architect. Three years into his papacy, in 1558, he hired Ligorio as the Architetto Fabricae Palatinae, meaning Architect of the Vatican Palace. His assistant was Sallustio Peruzzi.

His first and most prominent work was on the chapel in the newly built Papal apartment. Construction of the residential areas had been prioritized, allowing Paul to move in by October 1556. The chapel, however, remained unfinished and was tasked to Ligorio. He designed two large angel paintings for the space, and finished the project in about ten months. Around the same time, he received the commission to create a casino for the pope near Belvedere Court. This project was stalled due to financial concerns, but would later become one of Ligorio's cornerstone projects under the patronage of Pope Pius IV.

Paul IV also pursued major renovations to the papal palace in this time period. In particular, Paul aimed to increase the flow of light in the Hall of Constantine. Ligorio, as his most trusted architect, was chosen to remedy the darkness problem. They chose to destroy the old papal apartment and incorporate a rooftop garden into the space, allowing more light to enter the Hall of Constantine.

Towards the end of Paul IV's tenure, he asked Ligorio to design a monstrance, or tabernacle, to be used for special papal trips. It was to be stored in the newly designed chapel. Unfortunately, Paul died while the project was still in its early stages. The following pope, however, greatly valued continuation of unfinished projects, and ordered that Ligorio finish the monstrance. Upon completion, it was sent to Milan as a gift to the Duomo.

Pope Pius IV (1559–1565)
Pius IV rose to the papacy in 1559, already holding a reputation as a strong patron of the arts—architecture especially. In fact, within the first three years of his pontificate, he spent a million and a half gold scudi on building projects. His approach was unique in that he prioritized finishing incomplete projects, rather than starting new ones. This aligned well with Ligorio's values, specifically his desire to restore fragmented artifacts and preserve classical antiquities.

Under Pius IV, Ligorio was once again paired with his assistant, Sallustio Peruzzi. Their first major project was remodeling the Vatican Library in 1560. Some records suggest plans to create an entirely new library, but due to lack of funding, these updates likely involved smaller-scale woodworking and masonry by Ligorio. He was also tasked with smaller projects in this time, such as masonry work and apartment building throughout the palace. In May 1560, Ligorio received a commission of great significance: the continuation of Paul's plans for the papal casino. Located in the woods behind the Belvedere court, Pius' revamped plans for the space included a second story, large fountain, and oval courtyard with arched entryways. The decorations matched Ligorio's preferred Raphaelesqu style. It was named the Casino of Pius IV in honor of the pope who supported its construction. Swiss historian Jacob Burckhardt called it "the most beautiful afternoon retreat that modern architecture has created."

On 2 December 1560, Ligorio was awarded with honorary Roman citizenship for his contributions to the culture and architecture of the city. This was a major honor, awarded to only three other people during the sixteenth century: Michaelangelo, Titian, and Fra Guglielmo della Porta. For the remainder of his life, Ligorio identified as both a Neapolitan citizen by birth and a Roman citizen. This recognition also increased the commissions and projects for which Ligorio was pursued, and made the papacy of Pius IV one of Ligorio's busiest times. This period also marked one of Ligorio's most prominent ventures into engineering. Papal duties included protecting the cities in its territory, which involved repairing fortifications in those cities. The duties of a Renaissance architect included consideration of engineering concerns, so Ligorio engaged in these renovations during his time as the Architect of the Vatican. He is particularly remembered for his role in the restoration of the Acqua Vergine, an ancient Roman aqueduct. Its malfunction was forcing Roman citizens to use the unsanitary water of the Tiber River. Ligorio demanded its reconstruction, which began in April 1561 and took approximately five years to complete.

In the early 1560s, the pope turned his attention toward the completion of several projects in the Belvedere Court. Ligorio in particular focused on the Nicchione built by Bramante in the northern end of the Belvedere Court. He added a semicircular loggia, which ended up being used in many of Rome's festivals as a fireworks site. Ligorio's other contribution to the Belvedere Court was an open-air theater on the southern end, which was completed in May 1565. Unfortunately this theater was torn down in the eighteenth century and replaced by a wall. The Belvedere Court itself was used for a large tournament in March 1565 in honor of the marriage of the pope's nephew. The Nicchione space was designed to be viewed specifically from a window in the pope's apartment, framed like a painting.

Another project requested by Pius IV in 1565 was the organization of Vatican archives. Ligorio was tasked with designing a structure to hold these records. Although little remains of this Archivio today, its architectural design suggests a brief departure from Ligorio's typical style (as exemplified by, for example, the extravagant Casino). Normally his facades were beautifully and intricately decorated in the mannerist tradition. This building, however, was notably utilitarian and modest. Ligorio was staying true to the purpose of the building and Pius' wishes by matching its design to its no-frills function.

After the death of Michelangelo, Ligorio was appointed as the architect of the San Pietro church in May 1564. This greatly annoyed Giorgio Vasari, an admirer of Michelangelo and enemy of Ligorio. The second architect on the project was Giacomo Vignola. Together they accomplished little progress on the church, and were eventually released from their duties under the new pope.

Imprisonment
Ligorio's employment at the Vatican was briefly interrupted in the summer of 1565 when he was imprisoned for one week. Allegedly, he had committed fraud by stealing building materials during several of his papal architectural projects. He was investigated extensively and had his writings removed. He was released with little incident, aside from having medallions worth six thousand scudi removed from his possession. Accusations like these, however, did not help Ligorio's already controversial fame and earlier allegations of forgery against him.

Pope Pius V (1566–1572)
Unlike his predecessor, Pius V had little to do with Ligorio; this was mostly due to the two popes' deep-rooted ideological differences. He tasked Ligorio with some minor woodworking and design projects; Ligorio held on to his title of Palace Architect until possibly as late as June 1567. During the final years of his tenure, he actually returned to Ferrara for work.

Ippolito II d'Este
In September 1550, before his employment at the Vatican and during his study of classical antiquity, Ligorio was hired by the Cardinal of Ferrara (Ippolito II d'Este) to accompany him to Tivoli. There, while the Cardinal served as governor, Ligorio managed his antique collection and served as a top advisor. The area was rich with remains of old villas and temples, allowing Ligorio to further his research of Roman antiques and the governor to add to his own personal collection.

Villa d'Este
Upon arriving to Tivoli, Ippolito II d'Este decided to turn an old monastery into his own luxury villa. Building would be stalled for the majority of the decade due to changes in Ippolito's duties, but fully resumed in 1560. Giovanni Alberto Galvani served as the main architect, but Pirro Ligorio took charge of the villa's extensive and intricate gardens. These gardens included many waterworks and fountains (utilizing Ligorio's knowledge of aqueduct engineering), as well as a collection of ancient sculpture. Ligorio designed both a larger public garden and a smaller private garden. The latter can be accessed directly from the palace, and utilizes shaded walls to maintain a private retreat. As described by David Coffin, Ligorio's most prominent biographer, Ligorio employed three major themes in these gardens. First and foremost was a focus on the relationship between nature and art—a concern indicative of the Renaissance period. Many of Ligorio's waterworks and sculptures incorporated flora and fauna, marrying the natural aspects of the garden with the man-made artistic elements. The second theme was geographic; Ligorio designed the fountains to represent the three rivers flowing into the Fountain of Rome in an ode to the cardinal's appreciation of the arts. Finally, Ligorio's use of mythological iconography, specifically the influence of the Garden of the Hesperides, was executed with special attentiveness. This incorporation of the imagery of Hercules and his struggle with virtue and vice showcases both Ligorio's knowledge of ancient Greek and Roman mythology, but also the cardinal's Christian faith and moral grounding.

Alfonso II d'Este
Much later, at the end of Ligorio's work for the Vatican, he returned to Ferrara yet again—this time in a more purely intellectual role. Beginning in December 1568, he served under Duke Alfonso II d'Este of Ferrara as the Ducal Antiquarian. He also acquired the title of Lector at the University of Ferrara. Ligorio's main duties involved preparing the ducal library and organizing an antique museum for Alfonso's court. He contributed numerous drawings and designs to these records, and continued to foster a reputation of antiquarian knowledge in Ferrara. In 1580, he was named an honorary citizen—adding a third layer to his identity as a Neopolitan and Roman.

On 16 November 1570, a major earthquake hit the city of Ferrara and inflicted heavy damage on its architecture. This sparked an interest in Ligorio, who decided to write a treatise on historical earthquakes. He detailed the effects of the Ferrara earthquake for several months, then began developing plans for an earthquake-resistant home. Ligorio diverted from the traditional view of earthquakes as supernatural phenomenon, and treated them as a natural occurrence around which man could reason. Many of the elements he incorporated, including thicker brick walls and stone piers, match modern anti-seismic practices. Again, this shows Ligorio's concern for not just the design, but also the engineering and structural integrity of his buildings.

Legacy
Ligorio reportedly died in October 1583 after suffering a particularly rough fall in Ferrara.

Despite his major contributions to Renaissance Italian architecture, classical antiquity, and garden design, Pirro Ligorio maintains surprisingly little presence in accounts of that time period. Giovanni Baglioni published the first biography of Ligorio in 1642, which was later replicated in other biographies by Milizia and Nagler, except with numerous factual errors. This may be due, in part, to the lack of documentation regarding Pirro Ligorio's life. The first thirty years of his life, for example, remain almost entirely a mystery. Additionally, many of Ligorio's designs, drawings, and buildings were destroyed over the years, making documentation of his work even more difficult. In the twentieth century, historian David Coffin wrote his dissertation on the life of Ligorio and quickly became the world's foremost expert on the architect. Coffin's book, Pirro Ligorio: The Renaissance Artist, Architect, and Antiquarian, remains the most valuable and complete account of Ligorio's life and works.

In the Epilogue of his book, Coffin describes Ligorio's personality as having three main traits: curiosity, imagination, and ambition. His curiosity led him to pursue a multitude of projects and interests, including painting, garden design, engineering, gardening, cartography, and archaeology. His imagination can be seen in the groundbreaking marriage of botany, sculpture, waterworks, and mythology found in the gardens at Tivoli. Finally, his ambition: Ligorio pursued his chosen fields with great focus and fervor, gaining admirers as well as detractors along the way. In particular, Ligorio found an enemy in fellow Renaissance architect Giorgio Vasari, who refused to include a biography of Ligorio in his Vite. This had a significant impact on the immortalization of Ligorio's legacy, and left his life much less documented compared to his contemporaries.

title: Pirro Ligorio


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Best of Bee Gees

Best of Bee Gees is a 1969 compilation album by the English-Australian rock band Bee Gees. It was their first international greatest hits album. It featured their singles from 1966–1969 with the exception of the band's 1968 single "Jumbo".

History
The following songs in this compilation from 1966-1969 were very popular worldwide and were picked up by many casual fans who owned no other Bee Gees album. The compilation includes the US singles "Holiday" and "I Started a Joke." However, the 1968 song "Jumbo" that was also released as a single was not included. This was the first LP appearance of "Words" and first LP appearance outside North America of "I've Gotta Get a Message to You." Both songs were presented in stereo on the Atco version and in mono elsewhere. Many fans consider the songs from Bee Gees' 1st to sound better here than on the original album.

Release
With the release of this compilation, Robin Gibb had left the group after the previous release, Odessa, and this compilation was released while the remaining Bee Gees worked on their next album, Cucumber Castle. Guitarist Vince Melouney, although playing guitar on most of the tracks, is not pictured on the front or back cover as he had departed the group a year earlier. The cover of the album features only the four members and was taken in early 1967 before Melouney joined the band. The back cover is from the winter of 1968-1969. The original 1969 vinyl release included the Bee Gees' 1966 Australian top ten hit "Spicks and Specks", but due to licensing issues with Festival Records in Australia, the group's 1969 hit "Tomorrow Tomorrow" was substituted on the Polydor CD release. The album is noted by fans for its bad stereo mix of the song "Words", which increased the vocals so much that the percussion was lost in the background. This is the only album/CD with this mix. All future compilations have a more balanced stereo mix.

The first issue in Germany was in August 1969, and had the song "Please Read Me" on the disc by mistake where "I Can't See Nobody" belongs. This was fixed a month later.

With the release of Their Greatest Hits: The Record in 2001, this CD went out of print for several years until Rhino reissued it in November 2008 with the same tracks as the Polydor CD. Three of the thirteen tracks from the combined vinyl/CD Best of Bee Gees do not appear amongst the forty seven tracks on Their Greatest Hits: The Record: "I Can't See Nobody" and "Every Christian Lion Hearted Man Will Show You" had only actually been the B-sides of other hits on Best of Bee Gees, while "Tomorrow, Tomorrow" had charted but had never reached the top 20 in the charts of the UK, USA nor Australia.

Legacy
In October 2010, it was listed at No. 16 in the book, 100 Best Australian Albums.

Noel Gallagher commented that Best of Bee Gees is one of his favourite albums and that it inspired the cover art of his band High Flying Birds' greatest hits album, Back the Way We Came: Vol. 1 (2011–2021).

Track listing
All songs written by Barry, Robin & Maurice Gibb except where noted.

Personnel

 * Barry Gibb — Lead vocals (1, 2, 4, 6-8 & 10), backing vocals (5, 6 & 9), acoustic guitar, electric guitar
 * Robin Gibb — Lead vocals (1-3, 5, 9 & 10), backing vocals (10 & 12)
 * Maurice Gibb — Bass guitar, acoustic guitar, electric guitar, piano, organ, mellotron, harpsichord, backing vocals
 * Colin Petersen — drums
 * Vince Melouney — electric guitar, lead guitar

title: Best of Bee Gees