text:
Talk:Orange Catholic Bible

Bahá'í
Why do you keep reverting from the correct spelling of the word Bahá'í. There are accent's and an aposrophe in the correct spelling. Also the correct name of the religion is Bahá'í Faith. -- Jeff3000 03:54, 16 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok, I understand why the changes to Bahais, since that's the way it was in the book, but just because it was spelled incorrectly in the book, doesn't mean it has to be spelled incorrectly here. -- Jeff3000 04:07, 16 November 2005 (UTC)

No original research please
I've re-deleted the list of identifications. These section said themselves, that they are speculative and non-canonical. If there is a part which can be saved, please state explicit references within the novels. --Pjacobi 12:05, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

What's wrong with original research?
The names of all the books of the OCB and all the faiths which are responsible for it are all straight out of The Dune Encyclopedia and the various books of the Dune series. If you have a problem with the identifications, which are not canonical, please go through those sections line by line and delete those rather than slashing out all the canonical information with them.Hiergargo 14:36, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

 * Original research is excluded by explicit Wikipedia policy: No original research. So, if it is not in the novels, it cannot become part of an encyclopedic article.
 * References must be given for adding stuff, not for deleting, so I'll remove those sections again completely.
 * Pjacobi 14:54, 3 January 2006 (UTC)

exodus chapter references
Someone says that that the chapter references from Hebrew bible may not hold true for OCB. I would argue that this is a none sequiter. This part of the article says where the quotes came from and what they were based on. In this context accurate chapters and verses should be fully acceptable as they do not refer to the OCB.

Why no original chapter references
The chapter references that are given are ones taken from the Dune series, not ones referring back to where the source materials for the OCB came from. Adding references back to the original source material would therefore be confusing. If one wanted to make reference back to the original source material, one should make it clear that the chapter and verse references are those of the Hebrew Bible/New Testament/Qur’an/etc. and not those of the OCB.

I can see your point. It is useful however to point to the source material of quotes where possible, things like "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live" are taken directly from Exodus. Perhaps simply a (derived from: (book/verse) format would be acceptable? Lostsocks 17:46, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

I could go for that. Hiergargo 21:14, 12 March 2006 (UTC)

Blog link?
Is an unofficial (e.g., non-author) blog acceptable as an external link?

 * Commentary on the Orange Catholic Bible

Per item #11 of External links:

 * 11. Links to blogs and personal webpages, except those written by a recognized authority.

(I marked removal of this from the article as a minor edit by mistake.) --SandChigger 17:58, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

Buddislamic
I removed the original links to Buddhism and (Sunni) Islam from this word a while back because
 * 1) I think this sort of double link from parts of a single word is confusing, and
 * 2) Buddislam is a fictional religion just like Mahayana Christianity and Zensunni Catholicism (which I also don't think should have separate links to their foundational components)

Is there an article on Dune religions? If not, why don't we create one and link these terms in Dune articles to it? Links to the real/original religions can go from there.

What think ye? --SandChigger 06:39, 6 March 2007 (UTC)

New Orange Catholic Bible website link
How is the site The Orange Catholic Bible Wiki relevant to this article?

The Orange Catholic Bible is a fictitious work. The website in question is concerned only with an attempt by fans to create an actual text:

 * The purpose of this site is to wiki up a draft of the Orange Catholic Bible as talked about in the Dune series of books.

It is therefore fanfic and non-authoritative. Please discuss before re-adding the link. --SandChigger 01:19, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

 * If you take a look at the Dune Wiki for example you have tons of fan sites including muds and such which are external links to groups where are fanfic and non-authorative.

 * I would question how this is less relevant than the band link right above it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Orsa impetus (talk • contribs) 01:55, 30 March 2007 (UTC).

 * The Dune wiki has its own rules; fan sites here are highly debated, especially lately on the Dune universe and Dune (novel) pages. This is an excyclopedia, a source for information related to a topic, not a compendium of every Dune reference on the internet. Data here should be attributed to a canon source or notable derivative work; this OC Bible site is like me writing a 100-page blog about Feyd-Rautha's childhood. As far as the band, you're probably right that they're not notable enough, but if they actually have an album, they should stay. TAnthony 02:23, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

 * If a band is valid enough because they have an album, does that mean that the site link would be more valid if there was actually an OCB draft at that address? Is your beef with the fact that the work is a work that is just starting out?  I mean, this is just science fiction.  I thought that an attempt to flesh out what this page pertains to would be particularly relevant to creating some real depth to this topic.  That is why it is an external link, not an attempt to construct the thing using Wikipedia.  I acknowledge that the link is "bad" because of linking to an open wiki that is not stable, without a number of authors.  Having said that the link above it is "bad" because it is used as a promotion tool.  I don't really care if my link not included, but if you are going to throw the rulebook at me then I would protest the first link as well Orsa impetus 07:07, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

 * This is why talk pages exist, so we can debate the nebulous rules, LOL! In my opinion, the fact that the band took the name "Orange Catholic Bible" is the only potentially notable thing about them in this context. The band having an album, some mention in the mainstream press and maybe a following would make them reasonably notable, which would validate their inclusion in this article. However, I just looked at the link destination, did some searches, and they're probably some high school kids in the garage — not worthy of their own Wikipedia article and not worthy of inclusion here (I'm harsh!) So I'm taking it out.
 * The basic issue with the OCB wiki is that it's fan fiction, not that it's new or unstable or whatever. Some similar links do appear here and are kept for one reason or another, however, usually because of their notability in the mainstream. So at the point when the OCB wiki is built up and more known perhaps the Dune police will let it stay! LOL It's really not an attack on you or the wiki, there just have to be limitations or everybody with a site would list it on wikipedia. TAnthony 16:23, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Well when the site has some content and is a bit more relevant the http://ocb.dndb.org link will be going back in there. And there is nothing in the rules that can prevent it once it is a stable wiki with multiple contributors.  Until then.  Orsa impetus 23:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Having "some content" and multiple contributors would not necessarily make it notable. You may achieve something interesting, but it will NEVER be authoritative because it's fan fiction. One thing you need to do is rewrite and correct that first page. --SandChigger 10:35, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Thou shalt not's?
Listing the Decalogue as a reference for the "Thou shalt not make a machine..." injunction seems to be another example of the extreme dimness that seems to be seeping in around here. Any reason to keep it? --SandChigger (talk) 08:14, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * I agree, the connection is tenuous at best. In fact I'm going to just go ahead and delete it, not like anyone cared either way the last two years ;) Markus Ramikin (talk) 15:44, 11 June 2010 (UTC)

Why Orange
Could there be an explanation ?Hektor (talk) 22:40, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

 * I seem to recall there was an interview with Herbert where he indicated "orange" comes from the "orange-men", that is Irish protestants. That traces the "orange" back to the Dutch aristocratic House of Orange.  The idea behind "Orange-Catholic" then was to evoke a stong contradiction along the lines of "Protestant-Catholic" but more in the Irish vein where they continue to kill each other.  This goes with all of his other syncretic amalgams of disparate religions such as "buddislam" and so forth.Ekwos (talk) 18:58, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Question: how should this be translated into another language? Should 'Orange' be untranslated (because it's a family name) or translated (as a color)? Is there any official position from Frank Herbert concerning Dune in other languages? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.157.231.232 (talk) 16:49, 21 December 2010 (UTC)

The OCB is not a real book
It isn't a real book, so the article shouldn't be written like it is. It is a literary device that exists in 3 basic sets of sources: (1) the original Dune series, (2) the new Dune books, (3) the Dune encyclopedia. These different takes on the OCB should be laid out and considered separately instead of integrating them to make some sort of overall OCB article like they are really talking about the same thing. I've made structural changes in the article in that direction.Ekwos (talk) 19:39, 15 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Really, I feel that this article's information should be integrated into the articles on the respective novels and the rest discarded as irrelevant to a real-world encyclopedia. However, for the moment, I've just re-corrected the reference to a gift being a blessing of the "giver" to being the blessing of the "river", which is how it appears in Dune. It looks like that's gone back and forth at least a couple times, so I thought it would be worth mentioning here before it gets changed again. 71.32.169.136 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 11:31, 6 February 2010 (UTC).

"The gift is the blessing of the giver"
Hi, I'm new to this, so forgive any breaches in protocol. Growing up in a very vibrant suburb of Wynberg, Cape Town, South Africa, we had many Muslim 'people of colour' living among us (mostly white folk), even during the apartheid era. I've heard something very similar to the above quote a number of times: "The gift honours the giver", and was wondering if there was anyone out there who might know of a similar quotation and whether it comes from the Quran, or some other Arabic source document or whether it's simply a saying that got passed down through the generations. I no longer live in the area, and so my contact with my Muslim brethren is much curtailed, but this has revived an interest in looking further into the matter. Thank you. Galen777 (talk) 13:02, 13 July 2011 (UTC)
 * A little of googling seems to show that the saying you're talking about is most probably "Accepting the gift honours the giver", but I haven't found any real references for it.  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.66.209.206 (talk) 22:41, 6 November 2013 (UTC)

According to the non-canon Dune Encyclopedia (1984) by Willis E. McNelly
The non-canon Dune Encyclopedia (1984) by Willis E. McNelly should be removed as non-canon. There are errors that are not consistent with the book. Much of the Bible was replaced due to unpopularity in the vast length of the Bible, and the near destruction of the human race due to events leading up to the Butlerian Jihad. Thou shalt not disfigure the soul is a reference to Serena Butler, not the OCB. Ncsr11 (talk) 22:46, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

Removed section of the origin of the name
I removed this section of the article about the etymology of the name. It's not sourced and in contradiction with the remainder of the article (and scholar sources) giving bouddhism as source for the orange adjective. --Dereckson (talk) 14:27, 10 November 2015 (UTC)

Unsourced original text:

The name "Orange Catholic" was created by Frank Herbert as a combination of the symbolic colour of Northern Irish Protestantism with Catholicism. As such it alludes to the union of what have been called "salvation by faith" (Protestantism) and "salvation by works" (Catholicism) into a single tradition. As a result it is in keeping with the variety of other religious amalgams alluded to in the Dune series (such as the above-mentioned "Buddislamic" traditions), as well as the universalist nature of the sources listed above.

Sources about orange
The following sources could suggest a protestant etymology:

 * https://books.google.fr/books?id=z3SF08iQGpEC&pg=PT160&lpg=PT160&dq=%22Orange+Catholic+Bible%22+protestant&source=bl&ots=rlmFaD4MX7&sig=NM6rZvmcaHGZo04xLYkUi5dapxE&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0CEEQ6AEwBGoVChMIh5qdnoiGyQIVRLcUCh2j-Q6C#v=onepage&q=%22Orange%20Catholic%20Bible%22%20protestant&f=false : merge between protestant and catholic

title: Talk:Orange Catholic Bible


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Talk:Archostemata

"Kolbe, 1908"
I'd be grateful if someone could explain this reference in the classification box and maybe add a note to the Kolbe disambiguation page. Thanks. <KF> 21:30, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Okay, I just found his full name at List of zoologists by author abbreviation. Shouldn't his name be disambiguated ( Kolbe )? <KF> 21:41, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

Smallest suborder?
Currently, this page claims Archostemata is the smallest suborder of beetles, while the page for Myxophaga claims it is. I realize there are different possible meaning of "smallest", so perhaps this could be made more specific? Cheers, Justinleif 22:41, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Archostemata


text:
Talk:History of South India

-

Timeline
Changes were made according to the timeline of dynasties. Inscriptions found at Bhattiprolu (Guntur District, A.P.,) pointed out the existance of a small kingdom that predated Mauryan kingdom. Satavahanas were vassals of Mauryans and became independent around 250 BCE. Pandyan kingdom postdates Satavahanas.

Introduction
The introduction mentions that the history of South India begins at 200 BC. But the Pandyas were ruling from the 6th Century BC itself. This needs to be changed --Chandrachoodan Gopalakrishnan

 * Find it hard to believe that. Any historical proof (except Devaneyan-style concoctions)?
 * -- Kavaiyan 02:54, 21 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Perhaps this is important (the age of artifacts may range from 500-1500BC), but it is hardly a notable site. I hope some one presents a paper on this soon.
 * --Blufox (talk) 21:16, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Pallavas
The main page talks of Pallavapuri in AP being the capital of the Pallavas. Someone verified that fact? History talks of Kanceepuram/Kanchipuram as the capital of the Pallavas, which places it squarely in Tamil Nadu. Can the original author correct the fact, or can I go ahead and do it myself?

And, as far as I know, Pulekesin's Vatapi (now known as Badami) is in Northern Karnataka. Badami, Bijapur and Sholapur still have many monuments of the Chaulukyas.

The page needs a lot of improvement - some photographs too. A good place to start for photographs is | Ruins of India, at Flickr --Chandrachoodan Gopalakrishnan 16:32, 18 November 2005 (UTC)

This article needs References
Please add a References section and list all the relevant sources. cheers Parthi (Venu62)gggggg7yggyhghghgghghg 23:08, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Reorder
I have made some additions and rearrangements to the various ancient dynasties. They were not listed in any particular order. I've made them chronological. I have also removed some weasle words and POV text. - Parthi 04:53, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

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Talk:Galaxy morphological classification

Proposed merge from Disc galaxy
The article Disc galaxy is just a one sentence definition that I think gets better context in this general article about galaxy classification. I don't see how Disc galaxy could be expanded beyond a definition without duplicating other related articles; we already have an article for the disc component of the galaxy: Disc (galaxy). Since Wikipedia is not a dictionary, I think there's a clear case to merge into this article. Forbes72 (talk) 21:01, 27 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Oppose, Disc galaxy should be merged into Disc (galaxy) rather than merged into Galaxy morphological classification (As seen here). Galaxy morphological classification talks about the types of classifications of Galaxies, not the actual types. Disc galaxy and Disc (galaxy), one talks about the type of galaxy and the other talks about it as a feature. Most disk galaxies are actually spirals and are usually never just plain Disk Galaxies making it somewhat redundant? Davidbuddy9 (talk) 00:30, 31 October 2015 (UTC)
 * The discussion on Disc galaxy seemed to indicate consensus was against merging "Disc (galaxy)" and "Disc galaxy". The editors there agreed that "disc" was a morphological classification of some type, as opposed to a feature.(but it's unclear to me which system of classification is being referred to) Disc as morphological type also shows up in the Galaxy template. Is "disc" just an ad-hoc classification? There's no sources for "Disc galaxy". Forbes72 (talk) 20:30, 3 August 2016 (UTC)

I removed the merger hatnote from August 2015 here and here. There is no agreement or initiative to merge Disc galaxy (type) with Disc (galaxy) (component) or with Galaxy morphological classification (this aricle). Instead I'll post it on WT:AST (link to post to be followed) to ask a wider audience, OK? R fassbind – talk  10:51, 13 October 2016 (UTC)

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Van Den Bergh Luminosity Class
The article doesn't mention the Van Den Bergh luminosity class and I don't see it mentioned elsewhere on Wikipedia. Could that be covered? Praemonitus (talk) 00:43, 19 December 2021 (UTC)

Black hole
Susu 2405:205:C8E3:96BC:182A:DC0F:AF0C:55B7 (talk) 11:21, 11 January 2023 (UTC)


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Talk:Coat of arms of Estonia

Blazon
What is the purpose of these vague descriptions? And I'm sure that there is no mention in the blazon that the leopards are "slim". Why not just provide the blazon, and, if necessary, explain to the layman what it means? --Daniel C. Boyer (talk) 20:42, 27 September 2009 (UTC)

Need More
This part needs more information!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 * I redid all the history of the page and took off description, and rewrote one and placed it at top. TDS  (talk • contribs) 23:45, 29 October 2005 (UTC)

cote of arm is my land were I ws from

Lions or leopards?
I changed the word "leopards" into lions. Most sources, including the internet link in this article, seem to agree that they are lions. Could someone tell me where the "leopard theory" comes from?

in heraldry, if lions look like that, they're called leopards

So are the "lions" in the Danish coat of arms also "leopards"? They are always referred to as lions. What is the difference between these Estonian felines and heraldic "Lion Passant Guardant"?128.214.205.4 17:05, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Denmark has the same problem. If the "creature" faces the viewer, it is a "leopard" in heraldic terms. If it looks forward, it is a "lion". The Coat of arms of Denmark originally showed three "leopards" facing the viewer (see e.g. the coat of arms of Eric of Pomerania (Image:Erikafpommernsdanskeunionssegl.jpg). This was deliberately changed in 1819 to the current situation where the lions face forward to ensure that the creatures everybody referred to as lions were in fact lions. See also: Leopard (heraldry) and Lion (heraldry). Valentinian (talk) / (contribs) 23:28, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

 * They can be called leopards, see Leopard (heraldry). As far as I know, there was a time when all big cats were called leopards, including lions, hence Leo the Lion Leo (astrology). I'm not sure if the direction the cat is facing makes any difference. Danrok (talk) 02:12, 6 July 2012 (UTC)

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Talk:Aradhe

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Talk:Herzog (video game)

I am removing this article's listing at Requests for expansion, since the article has been significantly expanded since it was listed in August, 2004. Good job, especially on the part of EXMaster! --DavidConrad 21:21, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

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Consubstantiality

Consubstantiality, a term derived from consubstantialitas, denotes identity of substance or essence in spite of difference in aspect.

It appears most commonly in its adjectival form, "consubstantial", from Latin consubstantialis, and its best-known use is in regard to an account, in Christian theology, of the relation between Jesus Christ and God the Father.

Theological use
The affirmation that Jesus Christ is "consubstantial with the Father" appears in the Nicene Creed. Greek was the language in which the Nicene Creed was originally enunciated. The word used was ὁμοούσιος (homoousios) and means "of the same substance." This may be contrasted with the term ὁμοιούσιος (''homoiousios), meaning "of like substance" and, therefore, not the "same substance," as was proposed, for example, at a later church council (the Council of Seleucia regarding the Arian controversy) in the year 359.

The word "consubstantial" was used by the Council of Chalcedon (451) to declare that Christ is "consubstantial with the Father in respect of the Godhead, and the same consubstantial with us in respect of the manhood".

In contemporary Christian theology, the Holy Spirit is also described as consubstantial with the Father and Son.

Alternative translations of the Nicene-Creed term
In the 1662 Book of Common Prayer of the Church of England, the adjective "consubstantial" in the Nicene Creed is rendered by the phrase "being of one substance". The same phrase appeared already in the Book of Common Prayer (1549) and continues to be used, within "Order Two", in Common Worship, which within "Order One" gives the ecumenical English Language Liturgical Consultation version, "of one Being".

The Eastern Orthodox Church use "of one essence".

The Catholic Church, in its official translation of the Nicene Creed, keeps the term "consubstantial".

In rhetoric
In rhetoric, "consubstantiality", as defined by Kenneth Burke, is "a practice-related concept based on stylistic identifications and symbolic structures, which persuade and produce acceptance: an acting-together within, and defined by, a common context". To be consubstantial with something is to be identified with it, to be associated with it; yet at the same time, to be different from what it is identified with. It can be seen as an extension or in relation to the subject.

Burke explains this concept with two entities, A and B. He goes on to explain that "A is not identical with his colleague, B. But insofar as their interests are joined, A is identified with B. Or he may identify himself with B even when their interests are not joined, if he assumes they are, or is persuaded to believe so...In being identified with B, A is 'substantially one' with a person other than himself. Yet at the same time, he remains unique, an individual locus of motives. Thus he is both joined and separate, at once a distinct substance and consubstantial with another."

"Consubstantiality may be necessary for any way of life, Burke says. And thus rhetoric, as he sees it, potentially builds community. It can tear it down as well. In the end, rhetoric relies on an unconscious desire for acting-together, for taking a 'sub-stance' together".

title: Consubstantiality


text:
Josh Kronfeld

Joshua Adrian Kronfeld (born 20 June 1971) is a TV presenter and a former rugby union footballer who represented New Zealand at international level and Otago, the Highlanders and Leicester at first-class level. During his international career, Kronfeld played in 56 games for the All Blacks, gaining 54 test caps, including appearances at both the 1995 and 1999 Rugby World Cups.

Kronfeld played as an openside flanker, and his greatest attribute was considered to be the speed with which he was able to get to breakdowns in play, in order to gain or regain possession of the ball. Kronfeld is an alumnus of Aquinas College, Dunedin, and is a grand-nephew of two All Blacks of the 1930s, brothers Dave and Frank Solomon.

Early life
Kronfeld was born in Hastings in Hawkes Bay, and attended Hastings Boys' High School. Kronfeld described himself as "German-Samoan" and he is Jewish. He played his early rugby union at scrum-half and centre, switching to flanker at high school.

In 1990 Kronfeld moved to Dunedin to study physical education at the University of Otago. Here he became involved in the Otago University Rugby Club. After playing one game in 1992, Kronfeld gained a starting position in the Otago team in the National Provincial Championship (NPC) for 1993. Kronfeld would eventually play 69 matches for Otago. He completed his BPhEd degree in 1993.

Rugby career
Kronfeld made his All Black test debut in 1995, playing against Canada at Eden Park in Auckland. He played in the 1995 Rugby World Cup including the final in which the All Blacks lost a thrilling game to South Africa.

After the inception of the Super 12 competition in 1996, Kronfeld also played for the Highlanders Super 12 franchise. In total, Kronfeld made 42 appearances for the Highlanders.

He made five appearances in the All Blacks’ 1999 World Cup campaign, which included the game against England and the amazing semi-final with France that took place at Twickenham.

Kronfeld remained a first choice player for Otago, the Highlanders and the All Blacks until 2000. At the end of the 2000 season, after 69 matches for Otago, 42 for the Highlanders in the Super 12 and 56 All Black matches including 54 tests, Kronfeld left New Zealand rugby to take up a lucrative contract with the English club, Leicester. In May 2001 he officially signed with English club Leicester Tigers.

After an injury-hit start to the 2001-02 season Kronfeld recovered well, establishing himself as a regular first-team player. He was an unused replacement as Leicester won the 2002 Heineken Cup Final. He was twice voted by fans Player of the Month, once Zurich Premiership Player of the Month and then named by his Tigers colleagues as their Players' Player of the Season 2002-03.

In 2003, Kronfeld returned to New Zealand, and subsequently retired from first-class rugby.

Life After Rugby
Kronfeld has made numerous media appearances, e.g. Celebrity Treasure Island. He has also returned to the University of Otago to study physiotherapy.

In 2009 Kronfeld participated in the fifth season of TVNZ's entertainment series Dancing with the Stars.

From September to December 2012 Josh Kronfeld hosted the ChoiceTV show Brunch (New Zealand) for Season One with April Ieremia.

title: Josh Kronfeld


text:
Finite thickness

In formal language theory, in particular in algorithmic learning theory, a class C of languages has finite thickness if every string is contained in at most finitely many languages in C. This condition was introduced by Dana Angluin as a sufficient condition for C being identifiable in the limit.

The related notion of M-finite thickness
Given a language L and an indexed class C = { L1, L2, L3, ... } of languages, a member language Lj ∈ C is called a minimal concept of L within C if L ⊆ Lj, but not L ⊊ Li ⊆ Lj for any Li ∈ C. The class C is said to satisfy the MEF-condition if every finite subset D of a member language Li ∈ C has a minimal concept Lj ⊆ Li. Symmetrically, C is said to satisfy the MFF-condition if every nonempty finite set D has at most finitely many minimal concepts in C. Finally, C is said to have M-finite thickness if it satisfies both the MEF- and the MFF-condition.

Finite thickness implies M-finite thickness. However, there are classes that are of M-finite thickness but not of finite thickness (for example, any class of languages C = { L1, L2, L3, ... } such that L1 ⊆ L2 ⊆ L3 ⊆ ...).

title: Finite thickness


text:
Talk:List of U.S. cities with significant Chinese-American populations

Taiwanese
This article lumps Taiwanese together with Chinese. That is a contraversial decision. It would be more informative (and less incendiary) to break the data down and let people use whichever definition is appropriate for them.
 * If you are to separate Taiwanese, then you should separate everything by smaller groups, like Cantonese and Hoi-San, since those groups significantly differ from others.
 * Why don't just delete all the sub group information, it is not accurate, controversial and not complete — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.119.0.247 (talk) 17:13, 25 February 2013 (UTC)

Random small cities
Why are there all the random small cities with 1% on this page? I say that every city on here should have either above 10% or above 5000 population of Chinese Americans. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 18.216.1.135 (talk) 06:03, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Sometimes that will not work though, because a city with 500,000+ people and 20,000 Chinese residents will still be at 1%, or at the very least, under 5%. I thought you had mistaken it for being that everything on here was a small city. Now, if only Los Angeles had a mere 60,000... Woo... no traffic whatsoever! ★ Dasani ★ 03:47, 23 January 2009 (UTC)

It may be equally informative to rank according to absolute population, rather than percent population. e.g. how come Atlanta and St Louis are not on the list at all? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.21.216.164 (talk) 16:09, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

1% confers "significance"?
the Canadian equivalent page List of Canadian cities with large Chinese populations has been up for debate at WPTALK:CANADA and has worn a "notability" tag since 2008. What's "large"? What's "signficant". This page makes a call that 1% is sufficient for an urban population, and 10% for suburban populations. Who made this call? Surely not the US census. How is one percent "significant", and even 10% "significant"? The equivalent African American and Hispanic American pages don't have their own bars set so low (rather a lot higher, as I recall).Skookum1 (talk) 06:51, 17 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Even 1% of a big city could represent a large number. I'm not sure why the article was renamed "significant" from "large", which is how similar articles are named. List of U.S. cities with large Vietnamese American populations includes cities with more than 10,000 qualifying people, even if that only represents 0.5% of the population. It also includes lists with far smaller populations. There's no reason that this article shouldn't follow the standard of the other similar articles, whatever those might be.   Will Beback    talk    23:25, 17 November 2010 (UTC)

Random small cities "Illinois" section
Urbana has a 6% Chinese population, not including Taiwanese, 7% including Taiwanese. Champaign and Savoy are both 2%. Not sure if Savoy would be big enough to qualify. This according to epodunk.comYeliab1 (talk) 03:32, 4 September 2012 (UTC) Did you test this? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2601:805:8100:A8B0:F578:56B:CC11:245B (talk) 23:59, 8 April 2016 (UTC)

California - Greater Los Angeles
Bradbury appears to be listed twice with different rankings. Fettlemap (talk) 04:53, 29 April 2014 (UTC)

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Talk:Conejo Valley

Juan Rodríguez Cabrillo
Juan Rodríguez Cabrillo wasn't Spanish, but Portuguese. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.58.235.62 (talk) 15:25, 15 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Cabrillo's nationality is disputed by historians - see the article. Also, thanks to editor Howcheng for adding a citation to the claim that Cabrillo was first in Conejo Valley. If true, that would be big news to all the Cabrillo biographers. WCCasey (talk) 06:33, 5 March 2014 (UTC)
 * To be clear, if Cabrillo really wasn't here, then that's fine with me. The web site of Thousand Oaks claims that Cabrillo visited the area, but perhaps "area" here means a much wider swath than just the Conejo Valley. Meanwhile, Westlake Village's site gives credit to Gaspar de Portola, which would have been a few years earlier than De Anza. One of these days I should get myself over to the Stagecoach Inn in Newbury Park and see if they have better info. — howcheng  {chat} 22:12, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

 * I'll try to find a more authoritative source with more detail on the explorers' routes. From what I've read, Cabrillo landed on Catalina Island and briefly at San Pedro, but didn't go inland. Portola traveled by land but also stayed on the coast (today's PCH through Malibu). De Anza established the inland portions of El Camino Real (approximately today's Hwy 101 except Hwy 1 through Lompoc) from Mission San Gabriel to San Francisco. WCCasey (talk) 22:46, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

 * Follow-up: removing the citation <>, because it does not support the claim that Cabrillo visited Conejo Valley. WCCasey (talk) 22:02, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

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text:
André Jaunet

André Jaunet (May 17, 1911 – December 13, 1988) was a French-Swiss flutist. In later years he worked as a teacher in Zürich, Switzerland, where he taught flautists Peter-Lukas Graf and Aurèle Nicolet, Conrad Klemm among others.

Biography
André Jaunet was born on May 17, 1911, in Corné, France. From 1924 to 1927, he studied with Etienne Moncelet in Angers. From 1927 to 1929, he completed his studies with Marcel Moyse in Paris. From 1929 to 1931 he studied at the Paris Conservatory under Philippe Gaubert. In 1937, he married Clotilde Faillettaz. They had two children: Philippe Jaunet (born 1938), and Yvonne Jaunet (born 1940).

On December 13, 1988, André Jaunet died at the age of 77 in Zürich after a battle with liver cancer. His ashes are in his beloved native French village of Corné in Anjou's Loire Valley.

Career
After occupying the principal flute positions of the Opera de Lille (France), in the Stadtorchester Winterthur (Switzerland), and the Bern Symphony Orchestra (Switzerland), Jaunet moved to Zürich, Switzerland, where he was principal flutist in the Tonhalle Orchestra from 1938 to 1978. He taught at the Conservatory and Musikhochschule (now Zürcher Hochschule der Künste) from 1938 to 1981. In 1973 he accepted a year-long guest professorship at the Hochschule für Musik Freiburg (Germany). In 1977, he was a guest professor at the University of Toronto (Canada) for one year. He participated as a juror in many competitions outside Switzerland. Jaunet held summer courses in Banff (Canada), Japan, Sweden, Holland and, near the end of his life (between 1982 and 1988), gave annual masterclasses in the Swiss cities of Thun and Obersaxen.

Teaching
André Jaunet was mostly remembered as a vivid, dedicated teacher. His pupils included Aurèle Nicolet, Peter-Lukas Graf, Robert Aitken, Jean-Claude Gérard and Emmanuel Pahud.

Solo work
During his life, besides occupying the principal flutist chair in the Tonhalle, he was active performing as a solo flutist with many orchestras. These included: the Zurich Chamber Orchestra (under the direction of Edmond de Stoutz), the Collegium Musicum Zürich (under conductor Paul Sacher), and the Festival Strings Lucerne (under conductor Rudolf Baumgartner).

Musical ensembles
For many years, Jaunet played with the Zürich Woodwind quintet, which included André Raoult on oboe, Rolf Kubli on clarinet, Rudolf Leuzinger on bassoon, and Werner Speth on horn. From 1947 to 1962, Jaunet was involved in baroque chamber music in the Zunfthaus zur Meise in Zürich, where he played with Hans Andreae (harpsichord), James Whitehead (cello), Claude Starck (cello), Karl Maria Schwamberger (viola da gamba), Hugues Cuenod (tenor), Hermann Leeb (lute, guitar), Heribert Lauer (violin) and others. Jaunet was also involved in performing modern works and analyzing Schoenberg's "Woodwind Quintet." In 1961, he performed Pierre Boulez's "Sonatine for flute and piano" with Maria Bergmann in Zürich's Tonhalle, in the presence of the composer.

Awards and prizes
In 1931, at the age of 20, he was awarded the Paris Conservatory's First Prize for flute. In 1939 he won the First Prize at the International Music Competition of Geneva. In 1966, the French government awarded Jaunet the Legion of Honour.

Discography
Although many are out of stock, Jaunet recorded several records over his career. André Jaunet: The Art of the Great Flutist is a 3-CD set that was produced posthumously, with the help of his wife, Clotilde Faillettaz Jaunet, by producer Mr. Muramatsu and Jaunet's former students, Aurèle Nicolet, Peter-Lukas Graf, Guenter Rumpel, Kiyoshi Kasai, and musician Michel Kurz. Muramatsu catalogue

Jaunet, André. Wie Meister Ueben: André Jaunet (How Masters Practice), flute, Panton Zürich Editions 1966, 120 pages. Contains two LP records in which the flutist teaches a pupil and then plays the "Andante in C major of Mozart" (pupil: Sylvia Baumann). Score for flute and piano.

title: André Jaunet


text: File:Detective Comics 38.jpg

title: File:Detective Comics 38.jpg


text:
Curiosity killed the cat

"Curiosity killed the cat" is a proverb used to warn of the dangers of unnecessary investigation or experimentation. It also implies that being curious can sometimes lead to danger or misfortune. The original form of the proverb, now rarely used, was "Care killed the cat". In this instance, "care" was defined as "worry" or "sorrow for others".

Origin
The earliest printed reference to the original proverb appears in the 1598 play, Every Man in His Humour, written by the English playwright Ben Jonson:

The play was first performed by Shakespeare's playing company, the Lord Chamberlain's Men. Shakespeare used a similar quote in his circa 1599 play, Much Ado About Nothing:

The proverb remained the same until at least 1898. Ebenezer Cobham Brewer included this definition in his Dictionary of Phrase and Fable:

Transformation
The origin of the modern variation is unknown. It is found in an Irish newspaper from 1868: "They say curiosity killed a cat once." An early printed reference to the actual phrase "Curiosity killed the cat" is in James Allan Mair's 1873 compendium A handbook of proverbs: English, Scottish, Irish, American, Shakesperean, and scriptural; and family mottoes, where it is listed as an Irish proverb on page 34. In the 1902 edition of Proverbs: Maxims and Phrases, by John Hendricks Bechtel, the phrase "Curiosity killed the cat" is the lone entry under the topic "Curiosity" on page 100.

O. Henry's 1909 short story "Schools and Schools" includes a mention that suggests knowledge of the proverb had become widespread by that time:

The phrase itself was the headline of a story in The Washington Post in 1916 about a cat who had climbed the flue of a chimney, and died after falling down to a lower floor.

Despite these earlier appearances, the proverb has been wrongly attributed to Eugene O'Neill, who included the variation, "Curiosity killed a cat!" in his play Diff'rent from 1920:

"…but satisfaction brought it back"
A variation of the idiom is followed by the rejoinder "but satisfaction brought it back".

Origin
On 10 August 1905, The Galveston Daily News newspaper (page 6) printed the following quotation without the word satisfaction:

On 23 December 1912, the earliest known printed reference to this variation of the proverb is found in The Titusville Herald newspaper (page 6):

You will find greater values here. We are told: "Curiosity killed the cat, But satisfaction brought it back." It is the same story with groceries. "Prices will sell Groceries, but it is always final- ity that brings the buyer back."

The proverb appears to have become well known soon after, as these quotes indicate.

The Harrisburg Patriot newspaper (page 2), 26 March 1917:

The Jewell Record newspaper (page 3), 15 May 1924:

Modern usage
The album New Values (1979) by Iggy Pop contains the song "Curiosity" written by Iggy Pop and Scott Thurston. The song includes the following lines: Curiosity killed the cat but what it found brought it back.

Stephen King's 1977 horror novel, The Shining, includes the following lines: Curiosity killed the cat, my dear redrum. Redrum my dear, satisfaction brought him back.

title: Curiosity killed the cat


text:
Nicollet Mall station

Nicollet Mall station is a light rail station on the Metro Blue Line and Green Line in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Adjacent to the light rail platforms is the southbound Metro Orange Line bus rapid transit station Marquette & 5th Street.

This station is located on 5th Street South, between Nicollet Mall and Marquette Avenue in Minneapolis. This is a center-platform station with one westbound traffic lane south of the platform. Service began at this station when the Blue Line opened on June 26, 2004. In 2013 Metro Transit began constructing an additional northbound platform in conjunction with and as part of the Nic on Fifth apartment building. The additional platform was built to provide additional comfort and safety at the station, as well as alleviating overcrowding and providing additional capacity for Southwest LRT. While scheduled open March 2017, the new platform was opened December 22 later that year. It is the only station on the system where passengers can regularly board from either side of the train.

Design and public art
The original station was designed by ESG Architecture & Design, with Thomas Rose as the design team artist. To reflect the tall buildings of downtown and vibrant energy of Nicollet Mall, the station's design incorporates undulating steel columns down the center flanked by dual curving metal roofs. This design earned the station the affectionately nickname "The Roller Coaster". The new northbound platform was designed by ESG's Trace Jacques, who also served as project designer for Nic on Fifth.

The public art installation, Small Kindness, Weather Permitting, by Janet Zweig has four interactive boxes at the station: Please turn the wheel #11, Thanks a million #28, Ring the bell and see #19, and ''Hit the bell! #1''.

Notable places nearby

 * Nicollet Mall
 * Gaviidae Common
 * Soo Line Building
 * 510 Marquette Building
 * Minneapolis Central Library
 * Wells Fargo Center
 * Marquette Plaza
 * IDS Center

title: Nicollet Mall station


text:
Douglas Livingstone

Douglas Livingstone or Doug Livingstone is the name of:

 * Douglas Livingstone (poet) (1932–1996), South African poet born in Malaya
 * Douglas Livingstone (actor) (1934–2021), English actor; wrote Boys from the Bush TV series
 * Doug Livingstone (1898–1981), Scottish footballer and manager

title: Douglas Livingstone


text:
Talk:Cyanocobalamin

Untitled
Page moved to Talk:Vitamin B12. But there may be some cyanocobalamin-specific related issues still to treat here, so I've left it as a TALK page, not a simple redirect.

S B Harris 06:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

B12 the band
I have no objection to it being a dab/direct in B12 pages, but putting it in here in cyanocobalamin, is just too much. I'm taking it out. S B Harris 04:06, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

 * There's actually a template that is normally used for this purpose. The reason is that B12 redirects here, and it might not be what people expected (for example, when someone links to the redirect thinking about the band, or someone just types B12 in the "Go" box). The template is redirect, and results in
 * I think the template should be added. --Itub (talk) 08:26, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

 * I've changed B12 into a redirect to vitamin B12, which seems to solve the issue. --Itub (talk) 10:16, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Cyanocobalamin Toxic
I've moved this section here until it can be verified and referenced:
 * It has been found to produce cyanide in your system in the formation of it into methylcobalamin, which is used by the body. This cyanide can react with potassium to form potassium cyanide (KCN) which is highly toxic. So one should use good forms of Vitamin like methylcobalamin, which is found naturally in nature, and can be readily used by your body. :) This was written by a college student very much into food, and in no way can back up these claims. But, scientists have written on the subject, and i hope someone can do some research and correct me if I am wrong in any way.

-- Ed (Edgar181) 12:33, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

 * In response to the original query, is it reasonable to expect potassium cyanide to remain undissociated in the body? Does the potassium make any difference at all? --Rifleman 82 (talk) 13:57, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

 * No, there will be no specific cation associated with cyanide in a biological environment, but the toxicity of cyanide is independent of the cation associated with it anyway. The important issue here is: Does cyanocobalamin generate any free cyanide under biological conditions; and if so, is the amount generated enough to have negative health consequences? Any statement we make is this article relative to this question needs to have a reliable source.  -- Ed (Edgar181) 14:14, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

This article might shed some light. (I'll read it when I have more time):. --Rifleman 82 (talk) 14:20, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

 * There seem to be some issues with the toxicity section again, as well as some other edits in the article. There are numerous issues with respect to POV, tone, and unsubstantiated health claims. It definitely needs a closer look. Things like: "Unfortunately B12 cyanocobalamin is added to fortify" and "Cyanocobalamin is possibly a silent killer of life, since it is inactive and might occupy the place of vitamin B12 in enzymes." were added in a single large edit. I suspect there are other issues lurking in the article. MachinaLabs (talk) 16:18, 10 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Cyanocobalamin is the inactive form of B12 that does not occur in nature and should not occur in enzymes. The conversion of cyanocobalamin into the bioactive forms of B12 is very limited. Fortification of human and animal food with the inactive cyanocobalamin is indeed unfortunate, since people have no choice and possibly the B12 cofactor in enzymes is occupied by the inactive cyanocobalamin. Nowadays the bioactive forms of B12 methylcobalamin and adenosylcobalamin are available and in that case it is indeed rather unfortunate to fortify human and animal food with the inactive cyanocobalamin. A more neutral approach is desirable where people have the free choice to have only bioactive forms of B12 in their diet. Wimbartx (talk) 08:28, 11 March 2015 (UTC)

Stuff and Nonsense
It is safe to pitch this into the dust bin. Potassium cyanide is NOT a concern. In fact, potassium cyanide isn't the concern at all, and those who observed that the potassium moiety is irrelevant are quite correct. KCN salt doesn't exist in the body: KCN is only present in solution, and it is fully ionized. Ditto for NaCN, LiCN, etc. HCN is a weak acid so it remains in equilibrium and a problem--the cell membrane is permeable to HCN.

There is no such thing a potassium reacting with cyanide. The moment KCN is dissolved becomes K+ and CN-. It is the CN- that is toxic. Unless someone has nabbed your liver & kidneys, the human body is quite capable of converting excess cyanide into thiocyanate and other such compounds. Happens every day. The trivial amounts of CN in cyanocobalamin used as a vitamin B12 source are not concerning.

There is one case where the CN-cobalamin v. OH-cobalmin makes a difference: treatment of cyanide poisoning. Large doses (much, much larger than is needed for vitamin use) of OH-cobalamin can be used to treat CN poisoning, as it combines with CN-. The body then can eliminate the excess cyanide via the usual Rhodanese pathway.

24.91.99.19 (talk) 22:25, 24 January 2010 (UTC)KC, MD

False analogy, toxicity and negative interference claims

 * 1) The analogy to CO is false, since the body converts cyanocbl into mehthylcbl with no problems. It is not as if the cyanocbl "occupies the place" of active forms of B12 and hence interferes negatively with them.
 * 2) The released cyanide after the conversion is of no concern for most people/animals (the exception are people with kidney problems). Amounts of cyanide ingested in even high amounts of B12 suplements is biologically insignificant and less than consumed daily from natural foods such as fruit, seeds or vegetables.
 * 3) Cyanocobalamin supplements have been consistently shown to improve B12 status in people with deficiency. See eg. section 7. Prevention and Treatment of B12 deficiency here:

I suggest to completely rewrite the Criticisms of Cyanocobalamin as a B12 supplement section along the lines of the following article:

 * The safety of cyanocobalamin has raised concerns due to the fact that cyanide is a component of cyanocobalamin, and the cyanide molecule is removed from cyanocobalamin when used by the body's cells. Cyanide is also found in many fruits and vegetables and so humans are always ingesting small amounts of cyanide, and like in most fruits and vegetables, the amount of cyanide in cyanocobalamin is considered to be physiologically insignificant.

 * According to the European Food Safety Authority, "Data of from a Norwegian dietary survey show that the average and high (97.5th percentile) daily intake of [cyanide] among consumers amounts to respectively 95 and 372 micrograms/person or 1.4 and 5.4 micrograms/kg bw/day (7)." The amount of cyanide in a 1,000 microgram cyanocobalamin tablet is 20 micrograms.

--Compostus (talk) 09:07, 29 August 2015 (UTC)

 * This is not acceptable because some people have a cyanide metabolism problem which renders this contaminated cobalamin an antivitamin to them. I believe this disorder is currently classified as Leber's hereditary optic atrophy. 65.94.226.217 (talk) 23:34, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

Ordering ingredients by weight
"This fact has caused some people (usually from reading labels on packages and vitamin supplements, in which vitamin B-12 is almost always listed last, since ingredients by law are listed in order of weight percentage)"

I know that US law mandates that food list ingredients in order of weight, do other countries have this law? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.251.28.105 (talk) 13:01, 13 February 2009 (UTC)

Animal Protein Factor
Animal Protein Factor redirects here but there's no explaination or mention of Animal Protein Factor in this article Nil Einne (talk) 09:52, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

This article in desperate need of clean-up from bad edits
exasperating. Shjacks45 (talk) 07:56, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
 * 1. the cyanide is covalently bound to the cobalamin moeity. Cobalticyanide has a high formation constant. One cyanide treatment (as effective as hydroxy-B12) is Cobalt EDTA complex. Sodium Ferrocyanide is added to Table Salt as an "anti caking agent" and withstands stomach acid. Enzymes are required to remove the cyanide to form the active enzyme co-factor. The human body stores B12 as Cyanocobalamin because it isn't as likely to react with other body molecules like Nitric Oxide.
 * 2. yes cyanide exists in the human body normally either through ingested food (almonds, cherries, raspberries, cassava root flour, drinking water, et al) or metabolism (oxidation of thiocyanate by salivary peroxidases; http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/f?./temp/~cT4WDw:9). We used to think Nitrites and Nitric Oxide were toxic and cancer causing until it was found to be a neurotransmitter responsible for heart function and erection.
 * 3. B12 and Rhodanese can oxidize cyanide to thiocyanate at about one gram of cyanide per hour when activated. B12 RDA is 2-3 microgram.
 * 4. I did environmental testing at an industrial test lab for five years. We did parts per billion testing for air contamination and never had a positive test for hydrogen cyanide from an activated charcoal blank. There is no reference for that statement, that hydroxy-B12 acquires a cyanide molecule while being filtered by activated charcoal, in this wiki article. http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/f?./temp/~ihhRFZ:60
 * 5. 4 gm of hydroxy-B12 and 8 gm of Sodium Thiosulfate was one cyanide antidote. The point of action of Cyanide is cytochrome oxidase in the mitochondria binding to the oxidized iron; Sodium Nitrite is often part of the antidote, oxidizing hemoglobin to methemoglobin which binds the cyanide before it reaches the cellular level.
 * 6. a contestant on a radio show water drinking contest died after drinking 4 gallons of water at one sitting, although the LD50 was supposed to be 8 gallons. The Thiocyanate dosage for sickle cell anemia is 1 to 2.5 grams.

 * The body does NOT store B12 normally in cyanocobalamin form (rather, most is in ado-B12 form). Yes, the CN in cyanocobalamin does come from activated charcoal, and B12 from bacteria is hydroxocobalamin. . This IS a reference. The idea that the body stores B12 as cyanocobalamin so it won't react with NO is nonsense. If hydroxo-B12 reacted with NO, a large dose of this intravenously would raise blood pressure by scavenging NO, and it does not. A normal dose of 4 gm hydroxocobalamin for cyanide poisoning is 1000 times the total body store of B12. Finally, if you never got a cyanide test off your activated charcoal, you obviously weren't using something as cyanide-binding as cobalt (yes, other forms of cobalt are active, too). S  B Harris 06:43, 12 September 2011 (UTC)

B12 is the precursor to B12?
I think I'm missing something. At present the into of the article states "Vitamin B12 is the name for a whole class of precursors to vitamin B12", and my brain is now stuck in an infinite loop. I expect that this statement is based on something accurate, but at present it seems to be a confusing, non-helpful way to say it. I hope someone with more knowledge that me can clarify. --Keithonearth (talk) 19:50, 3 March 2012 (UTC)
 * See vitamer. B12 is the name for any of the class of chemicals that has the activity of B12 in the body (cures symptoms of B12 deficiency). A precursor to B12 will itself be B12. B12 is not a "thing" but class of things defined by what they do. S  B Harris 01:55, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * I think the intro would benefit with making that more clear. Do you think it is clear as it is now written? --Keithonearth (talk) 18:19, 4 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Hard for me to tell since I've rewritten it so much at this point. Why don't you reread and tell me what it still lacks? S  B Harris 21:53, 4 March 2012 (UTC)

The molecule-picture
The molecular structure is mad in another program than the structure for Methylcobalamin and Hydroxocobalamin, which makes the hard to compare. I know it's only a question of the part that binds Co, but it would still be easier to conclude the rest of the structure is the same, if it was drawn in the same fashion. Can anyone do it in an easy way?

OxygenBlue (talk) 07:10, 24 July 2012 (UTC)

Mention of Cyanocobalamin Reductase?
Should there be a reference on this page to the enzyme Cyanocobalamin reductase? Looking this up on google, I ran across the enzyme article. (Safari auto-spell-guess-auto-search is nice..) I don't know enough about it (obviously) to know where (or if) it is a major contributor to Cyano-B12 metabolism in humans or bacteria. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jimw338 (talk • contribs) 19:16, 6 September 2012 (UTC)

Cyanocobalamin Injections, aluminum toxicity?
I come across this on several medical/drug info sites, take for example the Drug label from American Regent, Inc. on nih.gov:
 * This product contains aluminum that may be toxic. Aluminum may reach toxic levels with prolonged parenteral administration if kidney function is impaired.
 * Premature neonates are particularly at risk because their kidneys are immature, and they require large amounts of calcium and phosphate solutions, which contain aluminum.

However, apart from Warning sections, I haven't found any mention of aluminum. It's not listed under the active or inactive ingredients.
 * Each mL contains: Cyanocobalamin 1000 mcg, Sodium Chloride 0.9%, Benzyl Alcohol 1.5%, Water for Injection q.s. pH (range 4.5 – 7.0) adjusted with Hydrochloric Acid and/or Sodium Hydroxide.

So where does it come from, some impurity from the production process? And in what form is it? Ssscienccce (talk) 08:34, 20 November 2012 (UTC)

The Vitamin B12 Deficiency section is more about the metabolism
so I'll rename it to Vitamin B12 metabolism, and most of it should move to the Vitamin B12 article. - Rod57 (talk) 13:58, 17 August 2015 (UTC)

"Criticisms of Cyanocobalamin as a B12 supplement" poorly written and sourced
The "Criticisms of Cyanocobalamin as a B12 supplement" section of this article is very poorly written, repetitive, and lacking of sources. I suggest a major cleanup or deletion of that section. PStrait (talk) 03:05, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

I deleted the entire section. As a person with a doctorate in nutritional biochemistry from MIT, I agree with the opinion above. The content lacked references, and those provided did not support the content. Cyanocobalamin is widely accepted as a synthetic, supplement-appropriate form of vitamin B12 - functional and safe.David notMD (talk) 02:49, 28 February 2016 (UTC)

More clean-up
I have been attempting to clean up style and remove text either redundant or contentious. Next step to consider is severely cutting the entire B12 metabolism section, as this is covered in the vitamin B12 entry. THIS entry on cyanocobalamin should be on that synthetic compound and not on what happens after it is converted to the physiologically active compounds.David notMD (talk) 12:57, 1 March 2016 (UTC)

B12 production companies
At the end of the 'Production' subsection, we have this line:

"The total world production of vitamin B12, by four companies (the French Sanofi-Aventis and three Chinese companies) in 2008 was 35 tonnes."

Is there a reason why only the French company is mentioned and not the three Chinese companies? I think all four companies should be mentioned, else the whole of the brackets should be removed. The cited article is paywalled, so I'm unsure if the original source mentions all four companies. WikidKev (talk) 23:06, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

Cyanocobalamin sources include sewage sludge.
The cheapest sources of cyanocobalamin come from human sewage treatment plants where they take the sludge & turn it into a powder for energy drink companies. 2600:1700:9461:2020:6961:F9A0:93BF:28AD (talk) 16:08, 14 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cyanocobalamin


text:
Enis Batur

Ahmet Enis Batur (born 28 June 1952, Eskişehir, Turkey) is a Turkish poet, essayist, novelist, and editor.

Education
Born in Eskişehir on 28 June 1952, Enis Batur studied at St. Joseph High School Istanbul, METU-Sociology (Ankara), and Sorbonne University (Paris).

Career
Enis Batur is one of the leading figures in contemporary Turkish literature with a large body of work, extending to over a hundred volumes. Some of his works have been translated into European languages including French, English and Italian. He was among the contributors of the literary magazine Papirüs which was edited by Cemal Süreya.

He was a chief-editor at the Yapı Kredi Yayınları since 2017.

title: Enis Batur


text:
The Pastures of Heaven

The Pastures of Heaven is a short story cycle by John Steinbeck published by Brewer, Warren and Putnam in 1932.

This “episodic” collection is composed of 10 self-contained but related stories set in the Corral de Tierra of the Salinas Valley of California.

The Pastures of Heaven is regarded by some critics "to rival The Long Valley (1938) as Steinbeck’s major achievement in short fiction.”

Short story cycle: Chapters I-XII
The stories are presented here as per literary critics Richard. S. Hughes and Warren French. For clarity, the focal character is listed with the numerical section, as per Hughes.
 * Chapter I (Prologue)
 * Chapter II (“George Battle”)
 * Chapter III (“Shark Wicks”)
 * Chapter IV (“Tularecito”)
 * Chapter V (“Helen Van Deventer”)
 * Chapter VI (“Julius Maltby”)
 * Chapter VII (“The Lopez Sisters”)
 * Chapter VIII (“Molly Morgan”)
 * Chapter IX (“Raymond Banks”)
 * Chapter X (“Pat Humbert”)
 * Chapter XI (“The Whitesides”)
 * Chapter XII (Epilogue)

Reception
Characterizing The Pastures of Heaven as a collection of short stories rather than a novella, Saturday Review (November 26, 1932), praises Steinbeck for an aptitude that promises “richly human fiction” limited by merely “journalistic talent rather than of a creative imagination.”

Critic Anita Moffet in The New York Times Book Review, November 20, 1932, reports Steinbeck conveys “deep feeling for the tragedy implicit in each situation…his writing is noteworthy for originality of phrase and image and a strongly poetic feeling.”

The Nation in its “Shorter Notices” section (December 7, 1932) remarks on the dichotomous structure of the book - “Not really a novel, nor yet a book of short stories,” - and classifies the stories as “sketches.” Praising the collection’s “excellent analytical narratives, written in supple prose,” the review closes with this caveat: “If Steinbeck could add social insight to his present equipment he would be a first-rate novelist.” Literary critic Joseph R. McElrath, Jr. reports that the book “received a majority of positive reviews acknowledging the young writer's promise.”

Background
As early as May, 1931 Steinbeck reported that he was at work on a “series of related stories.” In a letter to his agent Mavis McIntosh at McIntosh & Otis, Steinbeck wrote “the manuscript is made up of stories, each one complete in itself, having its rise, climax and ending. Each story deals with a family or an individual.”

The stories are based largely on a local Salinas Valley family, the Morans, whose history and character Steinbeck knew well. The Morans appear as the ‘Munroes” in The Pastures of Heaven cycle and provide a “connecting link” for the narratives.

Steinbeck completed the manuscript in December 1931.The publication of the book was complicated by a number of publisher bankruptcies. and was finally released by Brewer, Warren and Putnam in late 1932.

Form and structure
The organization of the book’s narrative into ten “chapters” has elicited commentary among critics. Biographer Warren French writes: “Argument still continues as to whether The Pastures of Heaven is a “novel” at all or simply a loosely related collection of short stories.”

As a series of “autonomous stories” The Pastures of Heaven may be classified with “short-story cycles” comparable to Sherwood Anderson’s Winesburg, Ohio (1919) or William Faulkner’s The Unvanquished (1938). As such, the tales which are simply presented numerically by Roman numerals, “can stand by themselves.” as works of short fiction.

Steinbeck's fiction includes “short story cycles” in which the stories may be “highly unified” as in his novel-like Tortilla Flat (1935), or only “loosely” associated, as in The Red Pony (1933) comprising only three stories.

The Pastures of Heaven was conceived by Steinbeck as a short story cycle. The unifying device is the presence of a single family residing in the valley, the Munroes, who appear, often as a physical link, in all the tales.

Literary critic Robert S. Hughes, Jr. emphasizes that the Munroe family exerts a passive, but often decisive influence, serving as “the catalyst but not the true cause of the downfall of several of their unsuspecting neighbors.” The collection is also marked by an adamant irony that appears in the title itself, as well as the prologue and epilogue. Hughes writes:

"The title’s irony stems from the word heaven, which suggests a celestial realm where the righteous dwell in perfect harmony. Ironically, Steinbeck’s earthly “heaven” hosts nearly every conceivable human imperfection; consequently, discord spreads among the inhabitants."

Theme
Biographer Warren French locates the key thematic element in “the heavy use of the kind of irony” that was encouraged by “New Critics” of the 1930s. The narratives place emphasis on the disparity between the aspirations of Steinbeck’s protagonists and their “frustrating fulfillments.”

In a May, 1931 letter to literary agent Mavis McIntosh, Steinbeck explained how devise the setting and thematic material for his story cycle:

"There is, about twelve miles from Monterey, a valley in the hills called Corral de Tierra [earthen corridor]. Because I am using its people I have named it Las Paturas del Cielo. The valley was for years known as a happy valley because of the unique harmony which existed among its twenty families. About ten years ago a new family moved in on one of the ranches. They were ordinary people, ill-educated but honest and as kindly as any. In fact in there whole history I cannot find that they have committed a really malicious act...but about the Morans [‘Munroes’ in Pastures] there was a flavor of evil. Everyone they came in contact with was injured. Every place they went dissension sprang up…"

Chapter I
''During the early pastoral period of California colonial occupation in 1776, a Spanish corporal and his mounted troopers pursue and capture a group of Indians - fugitive slaves from the Carmelo mission. En route, the corporal is enchanted by a lovely and verdant valley he dubs Las Pasturas del Cielo; he vows to return and settle there. The corporal contracts syphilis from an Indian concubine and suffers slow death before he can fulfill his dream. The valley remains unclaimed.''

The prologue establishes the ”ironic premise” that informs the subsequent stories. The Eden-like landscape is juxtaposed with the “misfortune and tragedy” suffered by subsequent inhabitants of the valley. Warren French writes: “[T]he defeat of [the corporal’s] dreams established the pattern for the tales constituting the book, which become - through the presence of the Munroe family - a novel than simply a collection of short stories.”

Chapter II
''The idyllic valley was gradually occupied by settlers in the mid-19th century. George Battle, age 18, fleeing the military draft. buys land and marries. His wife, a “religious fanatic and epileptic”, bears a son: she is soon committed to an insane asylum. A succession of owners subsequently take possession of the parcel, each suffering a violent or mysterious fate. The Battle ranch earns a reputation as inherently evil. When Bert Munroe acquires the land, he and his young family appear to rehabilitate the reputation of the property among the community. Their very normalcy and innocence, however, portends a revival of the Battle ranch curse.''

The revival of sinister effects of the ranch are foreshadowed in Steinbeck’s brief portraits of the Munroe family members. Now prosperous, Bert, his wife Mrs. Munroe and their teenage children, Mae and Jimmie, inadvertently intrude into the affairs of their neighbors. Community-minded and generally well-meaning, their behavior is frequently destabilizing and destructive to the most vulnerable residents of the valley.

Chapter III
''Edward “Shark” Wicks, his wife Katherine and their daughter Alice subsist on a very modest income from their farm produce.. Alice is strikingly beautiful and innocent. Though never abusive, Shark secretly covets her as he would a valuable art object. Fearing suitors, he constantly inquires about her “condition” provoking exasperation in Katherine. Shark has cultivated a reputation among his neighbors as an investment wizard and a miser who conceals his riches. He maintains a make-believe ledger through which he “manages” his fortune. The seventeen-year-old Jimmie Munroe, styling himself a “casanova” attempts to seduce Alice at a local party and steals a kiss: gossip ensues. Shark flies into a near homicidal rage, suspecting his daughter has been deflowered. He advances on the Munroe home with a loaded rifle in search of Jimmie, but is intercepted by a deputy sheriff. Bert Munroe hysterically accuses Shark of attempted murder. The bond hearing reveals that Shark is virtually penniless, exposing the myth of his purported wealth and business acumen. Shattered and shamed, his wife finds a new strength in herself to face the family’s disgrace. Shark rallies at Katherine’s faith in his potential to be a genuine success. The family leaves the valley forever.''

Biographer Robert S. Hughes, Jr. ranks the Shark Wicks narrative among the finest in the collection. The brief, yet revealing emergence of Katherine Wick’s sense of self in her husband’s moment of truth is a key thematic element in the tale. Hughes cites this passage: "Suddenly the genius in Katherine became powerful and gushed in her body and flooded her. In a moment she knew what she was and what she could do. She was exultantly happy and beautiful." Warren French suggests that the Wicks family “may have been served by the destruction of an illusion” thereby freeing Shark, Katherine and Alice from their stultifying existence in the valley.

Chapter IV
''Tularecito or “little frog” is a physically deformed man-child. Abandoned in infancy, he is raised by a local ranch owner. Even as a little boy he possesses immense physical strength. A superb farm worker, he is particularly skilled at caring for animals. He is normally passive and tractable: his only outbursts occur when his handiwork is molested. Tularecito begins to attend school at age eleven. Though lacking any aptitude for reading and writing, he reveals an extraordinary talent for drawing highly naturalistic and accurate images of local animals on the chalkboard. When he finds his creations erased in the morning, he flies into a rage; the traumatized teacher resigns. A new instructor, Miss Morgan, recognizes Tularecito’s special needs and encourages them. She introduces him to fairy tales; he is particularly fascinated by the habits of gnomes. Lacking any intimate human relationships, Tularecito comes to believe that these mythical beings are members of his own race. Wishing to assuage his loneliness, he embarks on a quest to discover the Gnome’s cave-dwellings. His search leads him to Bert Munroe’s orchard, where he begins digging a tunnel at the base of a peach tree. He returns the next day to find Bert filling in the hole. Infuriated, Tularecito beats Bert senseless with the shovel. When a group of local men arrive to investigate they subdue him after a violent struggle. Tularecito is committed to an asylum for the criminally insane.''

The fate of gnome-like Tularecito is virtually preordained. The residents of The Pastures of the Valley, with few exceptions, find the “little frog” socially repulsive. Miss Morgan is responsible for encouraging his futile search for allies that do not exist; the Munroes, in this instance, are not culpable. Critic French places Tularecito in the same category as William Faulkner’s Benjy Compson in The Sound and the Fury (1929) and Steinbeck’s Lennie in Of Mice and Men (1937).

Chapter V
''Helen Van Deventer is a wealthy widow. Her husband was killed in a hunting accident. Pregnant, she gave birth to a daughter, Hilda, six months later. A sickly but pretty child, the girl began to exhibit violent, destructive tendencies in her infancy. The family doctor advised Helen to seek psychiatric treatment for her daughter. She opted to endure rather than seek a cure. The doctor is exasperated by the mother’s callousness. Hilda begins to report elaborate and bizarre dreams. She hints that a man is trying to abduct her. At thirteen she runs away and is found days later in Los Angeles. Increasingly delusional and violent, the doctor advises the now-adolescent to be placed in an asylum. The mother refuses, content to play the martyr. Helen moves with her daughter and servants to a custom built house in Pastures of Heaven. Bert Munroe, inquisitive like the other locals, takes a walk to the new estate. He hears a girl screaming from a second floor window; she tells Bert she is being starved. He knocks on the front door to investigate, but is turned away repeatedly by the butler and returns home disgusted. When Helen is informed that a strange man has spoken to Hilda, she is alarmed. Helen discovers that Hilda has escaped from the house after nightfall. She removes a rifle from her husband’s collection and ventures outside. She locates her daughter near a stream and murders her, later positioning the rifle to make the death appear as a suicide. No one, not even the family doctor, suspects Helen of homicide.''

Helen Van Deventer, who suffers from mental illness—like her daughter Hilda—is distinguished from the intellectually deficient Tularecito in that she is immune from the consequences of his madness. Wealthy and intelligent, she indulges in sado-masochism and declines to relinquish it. Bert Munroe’s involvement in precipitating the murder is entirely coincidental, though decisive.

Chapter VI
''The 35-year old Junius Maltby, a bank clerk, moves to The Pastures of Heaven and marries the widow from whom he rents a room on a small ranch. Junius proves to be utterly inept as a farmer, and after several years the property is in disrepair. Notwithstanding, he is entirely content to spend the day reading histories and literature. Shortly after his wife gives birth to a son, she dies in the Influenza pandemic of 1918. Julius raises the child alone. Julius engages a German immigrant laborer; as lazy as his employer, the two men engage in endless philosophical discussions. The boy, Robbie, grows up half-wild but enjoys his father’s affection and literary knowledge. When Robbie turns five, the school board demands he attend kindergarten, despite his father’s objections. The children take note of the boy’s ragged clothes and unkempt hair, but his openness and composure impress them. Intellectually precocious, Robbie organizes the younger boys into the “Boy Auxiliaries.” Miss Morgan, the teacher, discovers that, though highly articulate, the boy does not know how to write. She is intrigued, and visits the Malby farm. Miss Morgan is charmed by Junius' erudition and eccentricities. The board notes Robbie’s shabby overalls, and presents him with a charity gift of clothing: Robbie bolts from the room in anger and shame. Bert Munroe and his spouse compound the insult by visiting Junius and chastising him. Humiliated and stigmatized, father and son abandon the farm and move to the city.''

Robbie is named after Robert Louis Stevenson, one his father’s favorite authors. The thematic center of the story is based in a line from Stevenson: “There is nothing so monstrous that we can believe it of ourselves.” As such, Junius submits to the judgment of Mrs. Munroe and her “respectable” neighbors: Robbie must be saved from his own father’s neglect. Shamed, Junius and Robbie are symbolically “evicted from the Garden of Eden.” In 1936, Steinbeck retitled the story “Nothing So Monstrous” and added an epilogue in which father and son resume their idyllic life in the Pastures.

Chapter VII
''The adult daughters of Guiermo Lopez find themselves destitute after their father dies. They decide to open a small restaurant in their roadside house. Confidant of their culinary talents, they have high hopes of drawing a loyal clientele. Business languishes. When Maria returns to the restaurant after a day of shopping, she finds her older sister sullen and remote. Rosa confesses that she provided a sexual favor to a male customer simply for patronizing the establishment. The sisters weep and embrace. Maria, in solidarity with Rosa, declares that she too will likewise encourage the customers. The sisters together ask forgiveness from the Holy Virgin. Business improves among the male clientele. The cheerful sisters maintain the fiction that they operate a restaurant, not a bordello. Husbands keep mum, but the Lopez sisters are shunned by local wives. When Maria travels to town in her horse-drawn carriage, she encounters Allen Hueneker. Short, ugly and ape-like, he suffers from low self-esteem; his wife dominates and disparages him. Allen accepts Maria’s offer to take him to the bus stop. The pair are spotted by Mr. and Mrs. Bert Munroe. Bert jokingly reports the sighting to Mrs Hueneker. That evening Maria returns home to find Rosa in tears: the sheriff visited that afternoon and has shut down the restaurant, terming it a "bad house". Sobbing, Rosa announces she will move to San Francisco and become “a bad woman”; Maria pledges to join her.''

“The Lopez Sisters” lacks the “central irony” of the other stories in the cycle: the sisters have no expectation of harvesting the natural bounty of the Pastures. Bert Munroe’s gratuitous “practical joke” precipitates their departure, but does nothing to undermine their self-delusions as prostitutes. The “light, humorous” and Maupassant-like quality lacks the tragic dimensions of the other stories. Originally part of a play “The Green Lady”, Steinbeck intended to include the episode in To a God Unknown (1933), but revised it for Pastures. Critic Richard S. Hughes judges it “one of the less successful pieces in the book.”

Chapter VIII
''Molly Morgan, just graduated from the teachers college, has arrived in the valley to interview for a position as a school teacher. Innocent and sensitive, Molly suffers from the effects of an impoverished childhood and the long absences of her much-beloved and alcoholic father, George Morgan. Molly’s mother died after a protracted illness, and her father's whereabouts is now unknown. Molly considers herself an orphan. George Morgan’s short, intermittent visits to the household loom large in Molly’s perceptions of her father. She recalls him as a romantic figure, an adventurer, almost legendary in stature. He has not returned for years.The Pastures of Heaven school board welcomes Molly as the new teacher. She has a rewarding teaching career ahead of her. Molly’s vulnerability stems from her illusions regarding her father: she dreads abandoning her storybook illusions and admitting to herself his true character. When a member of the school board, Bert Munroe, begins publicly disparaging the drunken behavior of his recently hired ranch hand, Molly begins to panic: could this disreputable figure be her father? Declining to inquire as to the man’s identity, the mere possibility that he might be George Morgan induces Molly to resign and flee the valley to avoid abandoning her illusions.''

The “well-made” plot offers a “composite picture” of Molly’s painful and lonely youth, revealing her neurotic worship of a delinquent and alcoholic father. Molly’s delusional, infantile fantasies concerning the absent George Morgan and terror at confronting the truth; more troubling because her flight from the Pastures indicates that “she knew new her father’s real character.” According to French, Bert Munroe’s role is especially pernicious: “[H]is crude humor becomes a cruel weapon” which leads to the departure “of an innocent, sensitive girl who is an unqualified asset to the community that loves her.”

Chapter IX
''Raymond Banks owns and single-handedly operates the most admired farm in the valley. The farm is well-cultivated and his poultry operation clean and efficient. Community-minded and generous, he is particularly popular with the children, playing Santa Claus at the school Christmas parties. His only eccentricity, and a troubling one to many locals, is that he occasionally attends hangings at the San Quentin as a guest of the warden. Bert Munroe and his family have recently occupied the old Banks property in the valley. A newcomer, Bert is deeply troubled when he learns of Banks’ excursions. Bert begs Banks to procure a pass to accompany him to an execution. Banks is hesitant, but makes arrangements for them. Bert abruptly refuses the invitation: Banks is perplexed. Rather than simply decline, Bert proceeds to justify his distaste for executions, disgorging a bizarre childhood memory of witnessing an inept butchering of a chicken by a neighbor. He adds that he knew of a hanging in which the victim was decapitated. When Banks attempts to reassure him, Bert becomes almost hysterical in predicting the horrifying effects the experience would have on him and ridiculing Banks for lacking a heathy imagination. Banks, indignant, has nothing but contempt for Bert’s outburst and departs. This personal attack has sickened him and he decides to cancel his trip to San Quentin.''

The story is steeped in irony. Though lacking in empathy, Banks is neither cruel nor morbid: his desire to observe hangings is a vicarious means of experiencing profound emotion through the reactions of others who also witness the execution. This is indicative of “serious voids in his character” that fall short of perversity. Bert Munroe, in contrast, has a lurid curiosity in hangings, but lacks the courage to witness them. Rather than paying Banks, Bert has an ulterior motive: “he quite deliberately sets out to destroy another man’s illusions in order to protect his own.” Steinbeck finds Banks’ limited grasp of the enormity of death benign compared to Munroe’s morbid fascination, which he conceals under his self-righteousness.

Chapter X
''Pat Humbert, an only child, lives with his mother and father. Cruel taskmasters, they treat him more as a hired servant than a son. When Pat is thirty, they die. Finally free from parental tyranny, he seeks companionship in formal social activities: the school board, the Masons, and the Odd Fellows but forms no intimate friendships. Pat produces fine crops, accumulating sizable savings. He resides alone in the farmhouse, limiting his living area to the kitchen - the rest of the rooms fall into disrepair. A homely and ill-educated man, Pat at 40 appears to be a confirmed bachelor. An enormous white Banksia rose tree engulfs the farmhouse. Mrs. Munroe and her very pretty daughter, 20-year-old Mae, stroll by the property. Admiring the roses, Mae remarks that the farmhouse reminds her of a picture postcard of a lovely Vermont country home: perhaps Mr. Humbert will allow her to see the interior. Undetected by the women, Pat overhears her. An obsession takes hold of him, and he begins to vigorously remodel the interior of the house in the Vermont style. He orders custom made facsimiles of Vermont furniture. Pat has vivid fantasies of ushering Mae into the house and witnessing her delight. When Pat musters up enough courage to visit the Munroe home to invite Mae, he is informed by her father that she is engaged to a local boy, Bill Whiteside. Shattered by the news, Pat returns home and sleeps in the hay loft.''

Literary critic Richard S. Hughes praises the story for its “compact and tight organization…the narrative contains carefully-wrought imagery, reinforcing the mood of the various scenes.” Pat Humbert, as one of the most vulnerable denizens of The Pasture of Heaven, finds his suffering compounded by contact with the Munroe family. However, Pat’s difficulty originates primarily from his own unhappy family history. Unable to forge an independent identity after the passing of his “hateful” parents, he remains a social outsider. His delusional fantasy that Mae Munroe might be his wife moves him to action: he vigorously dismantles the interior of the house that his domineering parents had occupied for decades, an act of liberation. When Mae is betrothed to another, Pat is doomed to revert to his former self, haunted by the ghosts of his mother and father.

Chapter XI
''Richard Whiteside arrives in The Pastures of Heaven from New England after his father’s estate burns down; he is determined to revive the family fortunes by establishing a “dynasty” in the Pastures of Heaven that will endure for many generations. He builds a grand house and marries Alicia, both expecting to produce a large family. Richard sires but one child, John. John, in turn, marries Willa and, again, produces only a son, William. Though the farm proves highly profitable and the Whitesides are well-regarded in the community, Richard Whiteside’s dynastic vision never materializes. The handsome house is accidently burned to the ground during a prescribed burn, and his grandson William marries a local woman, Mae Munroe, and they move to the city.''

Literary critic Warren French notes the similarity of this “tragic theme of the destruction of the dream of founding a dynasty” with that of Faulkner’s Absalom, Absalom! (year).” Richard S. Hughes identifies four symbols associated with the Whiteside mansion: the white paint that perpetually covers the house; the New England style slate roof; the sitting room with its bookshelf containing the works of Herodotus, Xenophon, and Thucidydes; and especially the Meerschaum pipe and its successive color transformations. In terms of the irony that Steinbeck's inserts into every story, the fiery inferno that consumes the Whiteside house is entirely predictable: “we are prepared for it from the very beginning of the tale.” Hughes points out that, contrary to the other stories in the cycle, the Whiteside tragedy requires no meddling from the Munroe family.

Chapter XII
''The chapter serves to bookend the collection: sightseers gaze longingly on the golden and fertile valley, each imagining the wonderful gifts it might hold for them. The reader is fully aware that the valley has been the site of “misfortune and tragedy.” of which the tourists are utterly ignorant.''

The epilogue balances the prologue, thus “completing the ironic frame of the volume.”

Adaptations
A stage adaptation of The Pastures of Heaven done as a collaboration between the California Shakespeare Theater and Word for Word Performing Art Company (a company that stages short stories literally word for word) premiered in Orinda, California, in June 2010. The script was by Octavio Solis, and it was directed by California Shakespeare Theater's artistic director Jonathan Moscone.

title: The Pastures of Heaven


text:
Template:Note

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title: Template:Note


text:
South Edmeston, New York

South Edmeston is a hamlet (and census-designated place) on the Unadilla River in the Town of Edmeston in Otsego County, New York, United States.

This area had been a center of dairy farming and cheese production since the nineteenth century. Kraft Foods had operated a cheese plant in South Edmeston starting in the year 1920. They originally produced Philadelphia brand cream cheese. Later they switched over to Breyers yogurt, and the plant employed about 55 workers.

In December 2004, Kraft announced that the plant would close on April 8, 2005. Following its closure, the plant was bought by the company Agro Farma under Turkish entrepreneur Hamdi Ulukaya. In 2007, it launched the Chobani brand of Greek yogurt. Thanks to the surge in popularity of Greek yogurt, as of 2011, the company employs 600 workers at its South Edmeston headquarters and production facility, and continues to expand.

title: South Edmeston, New York


text:
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title: User:Sgeo/fntest


text: User talk:69.76.98.26

title: User talk:69.76.98.26


text: User talk:4.29.137.99

title: User talk:4.29.137.99