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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Speedwood

Speedwood
Speedwood was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete.

Seems to be a non-notable music genre played by a single band. Google search for (speedwood music) finds < 1,200 hits. — Asbestos | Talk 23:34, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete absolutely: one member is not a list, and one band is not a genre.  Geogre 01:45, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, for the same reason. One band is not a genre. EagleFalconn 20:15, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete vanity, etc. Aerion 22:23, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Del. Mikkalai

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


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1833 in rail transport

February events

 * February 15 – The Western Railroad of Massachusetts is chartered to build a railroad between Worcester, Massachusetts, and the New York state line.

March events

 * March 15 – Andover and Wilmington Railroad is incorporated to build a branch from the Boston and Lowell Railroad at Wilmington, Massachusetts, north to Andover, Massachusetts.

April events

 * April 29 – The Utica and Schenectady Railroad is chartered.

May events

 * May 6 – Grand Junction Railway and London and Birmingham Railway are both authorised by the Parliament of the United Kingdom.

June events

 * June 6 – Andrew Jackson rides the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad from Ellicott Mills to Baltimore, first US President to travel by rail during his term of office.

September events

 * September – Eleazer Lord becomes first president of the Erie Railroad.

November events

 * November 8 – The Hightstown rail accident in New Jersey is the first to involve passenger deaths.

December events

 * December 17 – Camden and Amboy Railroad in New Jersey opens throughout.

Unknown date events

 * Tredegar Iron Works, an American steam locomotive manufacturer, is formed in Virginia.
 * The Monkland and Kirkintilloch Railway operates a wagon ferry on the Forth and Clyde Canal in Scotland.
 * Paterson and Hudson River Railroad is chartered.

March births

 * March 6 – William Stroudley, locomotive and carriage superintendent for Highland Railway 1865–1870; locomotive superintendent at London, Brighton and South Coast Railway's Brighton Works 1870–1889, is born (d. 1889).

April deaths

 * April 22 – Richard Trevithick, English inventor and steam locomotive builder (b. 1771).

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: 1833 in rail transport


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Guillermo Cabrera Infante

Guillermo Cabrera Infante (Gibara, 22 April 1929 – 21 February 2005) was a Cuban novelist, essayist, translator, screenwriter, and critic; in the 1950s he used the pseudonym G. Caín, and used Guillermo Cain for the screenplay of the cult classic film Vanishing Point (1971).

A one-time supporter of the politics of Fidel Castro, Cabrera Infante went into exile to London in 1965. He is best known for the novel Tres tristes tigres (literally: "three sad tigers", published in English as Three Trapped Tigers), which has been compared favorably to James Joyce's Ulysses.

Biography
Born in Gibara in Cuba's former Oriente Province (now part of Holguín Province), in 1941 he moved with his parents, to Havana, which would be the setting of nearly all of his writings other than his critical works. His parents were founding members of the Cuban Communist Party.

Originally he intended to become a physician, but abandoned that in favor of writing and his passion for the cinema. Starting in 1950, he studied journalism at the University of Havana. Under the Batista regime he was arrested and fined in 1952 for publishing a short story which included several English-language profanities. His opposition to Batista later cost him a short jail term.

He married for the first time in 1953. From 1954 to 1960 he wrote film reviews for the magazine Carteles, using the pseudonym G. Caín; he became its editor in chief, still pseudonymously, in 1957. With the triumph of the Cuban Revolution in 1959 he was named director of the Instituto del Cine. He was also head of the literary magazine Lunes de Revolución, a supplement to the Communist newspaper Revolución; however, this supplement was prohibited in 1961 by Fidel Castro.

He divorced in 1961 and in the same year married his second wife, Miriam Gomez, an actress. Having fallen somewhat out of favor with the Castro regime (the government's ban on a documentary on Havana nightlife made by his brother led to his being forbidden to publish in Cuba), he served from 1962 to 1965 in Brussels, Belgium, as a cultural attaché. During this time, his sentiments turned against the Castro regime; after returning to Cuba for his mother's funeral in 1965, he went into exile, first in Madrid, then in London.

In 1966 he published Tres tristes tigres, a highly experimental, Joycean novel, playful and rich in literary allusions, which intended to do for Cuban Spanish what Mark Twain had done for American English, recording the great variety of its colloquial variations. It won the 1964 Premio Biblioteca Breve for best unpublished novel.

He co-wrote the script for Richard C. Sarafian's 1971 cult film Vanishing Point under the pseudonym Guillermo Caín.

Although he is considered a part of the famed Latin American Boom generation of writers that includes his contemporary Gabriel García Márquez, he disdained the label. Ever an iconoclast, he even rejected the label "novel" to describe his most acclaimed works, such as Tres tristes tigres and La Habana para un infante difunto. He was influential to Puerto Rican and Cuban writers such as Luis Rafael Sánchez (La guaracha del Macho Camacho) and Fernando Velázquez Medina (Última rumba en La Habana).

In 1997 he received the Premio Cervantes, presented to him by King Juan Carlos of Spain. He died on February 21, 2005, in London, of sepsis. He had two daughters from his first marriage.

English

 * Cabrera Infante's Tres tristes tigres: the trapping effect of the signifier over subject and text / Hartman, Carmen Teresa., 2003
 * Guillermo Cabrera Infante: assays, essays and other arts / Nelson, Ardis L., 1999
 * Guillermo Cabrera Infante: two islands, many worlds / Souza, Raymond D., 1996
 * Guillermo Cabrera Infante and the cinema / Hall, Kenneth E., 1989
 * Novel lives: the fictional autobiographies of Guillermo Cabrera Infante and Mario Vargas Llosa / Feal, Rosemary Geisdorfer., 1986
 * Cabrera Infante in the Menippean tradition / Nelson, Ardis L., 1983
 * A critical study of Tres tristes tigres by Guillermo Cabrera Infante / C.A.H.J Scheybeler., 1977
 * Seven voices; seven Latin American writers talk to Rita Guibert. / Guibert, Rita., 1973
 * Tongue Ties: Logo-Eroticism in Anglo-Hispanic Literature/ Pérez Firmat, Gustavo, 2003

Spanish

 * Buscando a Caín / Elizabeth Mirabal y Carlos Velazco., 2012
 * Sobre los pasos del cronista/ Elizabeth Mirabal y Carlos Velazco., 2011.
 * Acoso y ocaso de una ciudad : La Habana de Alejo Carpentier y Guillermo Cabrera Infante / Yolanda Izquierdo., 2002
 * Para leer Vista del amanecer en el trópico de Guillermo Cabrera Infante / Celina Manzoni., 1999
 * El heraldo de las malas noticias : Guillermo Cabrera Infante : ensayo a dos voces / Jacobo Machover., 1996
 * Cabrera Infante y otros escritores latinoamericanos / Ignacio Díaz Ruiz., 1992
 * Guillermo Cabrera Infante : La Habana, el lenguaje y la cinematografía / Ernesto Gil López., 1985
 * Discontinuidad y ruptura en Guillermo Cabrera Infante / Isabel Alvarez-Borland., 1982
 * Guillermo Cabrera Infante / Rosa María Pereda., 1979
 * Guillermo Cabrera Infante y Tres tristes tigres / Reynaldo L Jiménez., 1977
 * Guillermo Cabrera Infante / Julián Ríos., 1974
 * La nueva novela hispanoamericana y Tres tristes tigres / José Sánchez-Boudy., 1971

title: Guillermo Cabrera Infante


text:
Talk:Mississippi-class battleship

Greek names

 * DANFS says Mississippi became Lemnos, and Idaho became Kilkis, but www.navsource.org has it the other way 'round. Anybody know which is right?
 * —wwoods 23:35, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * concurs with navsource. Shimgray | talk | 14:07, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Feedback on improvements
(pasted from Parsecboy talk page for convenience) Mississippi class battleship  I haven't done much at WP for a while. I ended up getting the addiction back this week and blowing off life for a while. I took this orphan stub and tried to follow the lead of your excellent German Navy articles, and one of the older US BBs that got FA. It has a ways to go, especially some deeper info on the technical issues, that I'm going to develop in sandbox. Would you mind giving me some feedback on my progress. Cheers! Kevin --Kevin Murray (talk) 02:18, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Sure - the article looks much better than it did just a few days ago, nice work! I suppose I'll bullet these out so they're easier to read:

I don't have as many sources on hand on US warships, but I do have Conway's 1906-1921 and Peter Hore's Battleships of World War I, which may be useful for you. Also, I have access to OSU's library (which is pretty good - it has nearly ever edition of Warship International back to the 1960s), so if there's anything you need I could probably get it through them. Parsecboy (talk) 14:07, 11 September 2010 (UTC)
 * One thing I noticed is you'll need conversions for all of the figures (you can use the convert template for that, like 13000 LT - I'm assuming long-tons - for the standard displacement).
 * Another thing I'd recommend is to not use the naval-history.net website - it doesn't provide its own references, and wouldn't stand up in a GA or FA review. I always prefer paper sources whenever possible, and only websites when they have some sort of published expert behind them.
 * I don't know if you've checked DANFS, but it might have some useful information (and potentially more useful photos).
 * This is probably for a little further down the road, but since you haven't done much here in a while, you might consider putting the article through a peer review cross-listed at WP:SHIPS and WP:MILHIST to help you get into the swing of the formal reviews like for A-class and FAC.
 * Thanks! This is great feedback.  --Kevin Murray (talk) 16:43, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

 * Another thing, you are not italicizing ship names which is required per the MOS. I suggest you rectify this immediately. -MBK004 21:29, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Related links for construction of article

 * http://www.cityofart.net/bship/uss_ms_id.html interesting but non-verifiable - same info as BigBad below

 * http://bigbadbattleships.com/ interesting but non-verifiable:
 * Negotiations for the sale of the ships to Greece commenced in 1912, but the transfer was not consummated until July 1914. Before the transfer, the Mississippi became an aviation support ship and played a key rôle in the establishment of the Pensacola Naval Air Station in December 1913. The following year, the Mississippis took part in the hostilities against Pancho Villa in Mexico. Idaho was sailed to Greece on a training cruise, whereupon her crew transferred to the Maine (BB-10) for the return voyage. Mississippi was formally decommissioned and handed over to a Greek crew at Newport News. The battleships arrived right on the brink of WWI, in which Greece at first remained very carefully neutral while war raged on all her borders. Upon transfer, Uncle Sam's treasury received about 75% of its bad investment back; and Greece received two economical but powerful pre-dreadnoughts which sailed under the Hellenic cross as Kilkis and Lemnos -- a duty they performed through the early years of WWII. Their names recalled important Greek victories in the First Balkan War, when Greece and her allies had drubbed Turkey and shorn her of her remaining European territory. In the Mediterranean and Black Seas where the two ships served, their bad seakeeping qualities were minimized. If never able to operate with the speed and panache of the Averof, they at least supplied supplementary heavy gunfire in calm seas.

 * In 1916 the entire Royal Hellenic fleet was seized by France to compel Greek intervention on the side of the Allies. This was forthcoming in July 1917, and the ships were returned to control of the Venizelos rump government at Thessaloniki. During WWI they performed patrol and convoy escort duty. They saw action in the Black Sea in 1919, supporting the Allied intervention in the Russian Civil War (Crimean Campaign). Immediately afterward they played an important rôle in the 1919-22 Greco-Turkish War. Greece was given special leave by her allies, France, Armenia and Italy, to recover historically Greek lands in a full-scale invasion of Turkey. This operation began with troop landings at Smyrna. After a brisk start, the campaign was beset with political interference from Athens after the Venizelos government was ousted. The royalist faction proceeded to purge the military leadership of Venizelos loyalists. This occurring in the middle of a major offensive, the Turks took advantage of their adversary's discomfiture to deal him a couple of thumping defeats outside Ankara; the war ended with all Greek troops being expelled by a powerful, grass-roots Turkish resistance. This movement was ably led by Mustafa Kemal Pasha, the hero of Gallipoli. Following the Anatolian fiasco, both Kilkis and Lemnos were active members of the Greek fleet until 1932, after which Kilkis became a training vessel and Lemnos -- her engines worn out -- a stationary coastal battery. With continuing factional infighting in government and a worldwide depression constricting finances, the Hellenic Navy had to make do between the wars. Its old units were thriftily used and reused to the maximum.

 * http://www.1911encyclopedia.org/Armour_plates Indirect access to 1911 Britanica article on Armor Plates.

 * http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/index.html Lib of Cong photo index - select "War & MIlitary", then select "Turn of the Century America", then Browse Collection by Subject, then "B" then Battleships
 * User talk:Kevin Murray/mississippi sandbox page
 * Mahan, Alfred Thayer. (1890) The Influence of Sea Power Upon History (viewable online)
 * Massie, Robert K. Dreadnought: Britain, Germany, and the Coming of the Great War. New York: Random House, 1991. ISBN 0-394-52833-6
 * Gardiner, Robert (1979). Conway's All the World's Fighting Ships, 1860-1905 Annapolis: Naval Institute Press ISBN 978-0870219122
 * Navy ordnance activities: World war, 1917-1918 (viewable online)

 * Torpedo research is this WP:V?
 * Good background essay on guns and why not WP:V

I've pulled the See also links and dropped them here for now. I like these sections in articles as they are nice sign posts to continued knowledge, but it looks like FA custome don't support this concept. Don't know why, but not my call:
 * List of battleships of the United States Navy
 * Indiana class FA example
 * Deutschland class battleship, the last German pre Dreadnought class
 * Lord Nelson class battleship, the last British pre Dreadnought class
 * Danton class battleship, the last French pre Dreadnought class --Kevin Murray (talk) 04:25, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

To do

 * Add 1989 to all current Friedman citations
 * Add new info from Friedman - Naval Firepower ref Freidman 2001

debug
the turrets for the 8-inch guns were superimposed over the turrets for the 12-inch guns (see Kearsarge and Virginia classes).

should be

the turrets for the 8-inch guns were superimposed over the turrets for the 12/13-inch guns (see Kearsarge and Virginia classes).

(or main guns). pietro151.29.200.96 (talk) 12:55, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Mississippi-class battleship


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Squirrel fishing

Squirrel fishing is the sporting practice of "catching" squirrels and attempting to lift them into the air using a nut (preferably a peanut) tied to a string or fishing line and optionally some kind of fishing pole.

There has been some debate over where modern squirrel fishing originated. The practice was popularized either by Nikolas Gloy and Yasuhiro Endo at the Division of Engineering and Applied Sciences at Harvard University or by the Berkeley Squirrel Fisher's Club (BSF), an official student group at the University of California, Berkeley that has been featured in the campus newspaper. , Ohio State University also had a squirrel fishing club. Michigan State University joined in 2015.

Squirrel fishing occurred at least as early as 1889 in the United States.

title: Squirrel fishing


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Talk:Record of Lodoss War

Cover art is wrong
Im pretty sure thats image art for Ys book 1&2. The one in the middle is Adol Christain. 2600:1700:4EE0:4570:2882:B832:856A:7722 (talk) 03:13, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Record of Lodoss War


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Existential humanism

Existential humanism is humanism that validates the human subject as struggling for self-knowledge and self-responsibility.

Concepts
Søren Kierkegaard suggested that the best use of our capacity for making choices is to freely choose to live a fully human life, rooted in a personal search for values, rather than an external code.

Jean-Paul Sartre said "existentialism is a humanism" because it expresses the power of human beings to make freely-willed choices, independent of the influence of religion or society. Unlike traditional humanisms, however, Sartre disavowed any reliance on an essential nature of man – on deriving values from the facts of human nature – but rather saw human value as self-created through undertaking projects in the world: experiments in living. Albert Camus, in his book The Plague, suggests that some of us may choose to be heroic, even knowing that it will bring us neither reward nor salvation; and Simone de Beauvoir, in her book The Ethics of Ambiguity, argues that embracing our own personal freedom requires us to fight for the freedoms of all humanity.

Criticism
Martin Heidegger attacked Sartre's concept of existential humanism in his Letter on Humanism of 1946, accusing Sartre of elevating Reason above Being.

Michel Foucault followed Heidegger in attacking Sartre's humanism as a kind of theology of man, though in his emphasis on the self-creation of the human being he has in fact been seen as very close to Sartre's existential humanism.

title: Existential humanism


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User:I like pie mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Next time, you bring pie.

title: User:I like pie mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm


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Democratic Party of Kosovo

The Democratic Party of Kosovo (Partia Demokratike e Kosovës; abbr. PDK) is one of the largest political parties in Kosovo. It was originally a social-democratic party coming out of the demilitarised Kosovo Liberation Army after the Kosovo War, with most of the leadership coming from Albanian nationalists and former members of the People's Movement of Kosovo. However, during its congress in January 2013, it positioned itself as a centre-right party and is considered to be a conservative party. The Democratic Party of Kosovo since July 2021 is headed by Memli Krasniqi, the former Vice –President of the Assembly of Kosovo, Minister of Agriculture and Minister of Culture, Youth and Sports.

History
The party was founded on 14 May 1999 from the political wing of the Kosovo Liberation Army as the Party for the Democratic Progress of Kosovo (Partia për Progres Demokratik e Kosovës), but was renamed on 21 May 2000. The party has increased in size and regional scope, initially winning the elections of 2007 and winning most of the regional elections in the municipal elections of 2009. PDK renewed its governing mandate after winning the elections of 2010. Members of the Party for the Democratic Progress of Kosovo were blacklisted by the US under then-President George W. Bush in 2001.

In the 2004 legislative elections, the party won 28.9% of the popular vote and 30 out of 120 seats in the Assembly of Kosovo; in 2007 PDK won a majority for the first time with 35% of the vote. In 2010's disputed elections, PDK won again with 32% of the vote.

After 14 years of leadership of Hashim Thaçi who had to resign from party leadership to take the position of the President of the country, in May 2016, Parliament Speaker Kadri Veseli became party president by acclamation. He was elected with no votes against and no abstentions.

Elections in 2010
Parliamentary elections were held on 12 December 2010, the first such elections organized in Kosovo since their declaration of independence. After early results, Hashim Thaçi, who was on course to gain 32 per cent of the vote, claimed victory for PDK, the Democratic Party of Kosovo. He said he intended to continue governing for another 4 years. After accusations of vote-rigging, voting was repeated in several municipalities. With more than 30 per cent of the vote, Thaçi formed a coalition with the New Kosovo Alliance (AKR), led by the ex-president, Behgjet Pacolli. It was in fourth place with 8 percent of the popular vote.

The turnout at the election was significantly higher than usual, augmented by Serbs who decided to vote in the disputed republic. Following the confirmation of the final election results, PDK and AKR formed a government with a program dedicated to EU integrations. The new government included many of the younger generation of PDK members, such as Bedri Hamza, Memli Krasniqi, Vlora Çitaku, Blerand Stavileci, Petrit Selimi, etc.

Controversies
MPs Rrustem Mustafa and Latif Gashi resigned their offices in 2015 after receiving confirmed sentenced for war crimes. In April 2016, PDK MP Azem Syla was sought for arrest in connection to a large criminal group which appropriated socially owned property located in Prishtina’s suburbs amounting 30 million EUR.

Seven out of ten current mayors belonging to the PDK are suspected, have been charged or convicted of abuse of office and other criminal activity. Sami Lushtaku of Skenderaj has been sentenced to 12 years for war crimes while he is being investigated for a corruption case. He ran for mayoral reelections and is serving in office both from prison. Nexhat Demaku of Drenas has been sentenced to one year and is being investigated in another case. Salim Jenuzi of Dragash was charged but found not guilty. Bajram Mulaku of Vushtrria and Begzad Sinani of Kamenica were investigated but not charged. Sinani is again under investigation for alleged illegal hunting. Former Lipjan mayor Shukri Buja was sentenced to four months suspended imprisonment for not declaring property to the Anti-Corruption agency, while Vitia Mayor Nexhmedin Arifi to 18 months suspended imprisonment for misuse of official position. Xhabir Zharku of Kaçanik was convicted to three years in prison for threats related to a privatisation case and illegal possession of a firearm forcing him to resign his position but was allowed to escape to Sweden where he now lives. Ramadan Muja of Prizren was convicted by a court of first instance. The case has been returned to retrial meanwhile Muja has run for and won a second term as mayor. Former Ferizaj Mayor Bajrush Xhemajli started serving a two-year sentence in 2014 after being convicted for killing a person in a traffic accident in 2009. The prosecution also investigated the former mayor of Gjilan Qemal Mustafa for road tenders but did not file charges. Sokol Bashota of Klina was being investigated for abuse of office in 2016.

In 2000 the brother of PDK leader Hashim Thaçi Gani Thaçi was found during a raid in Prishtina with a million German marks (500,000 euros) in cash. The origin of the money was uncertain.

Former Interior Minister Bajram Rexhepi was in office when about 1.5 million euros were embezzled is a case related to the production of passports by an Austrian company. Later about 200,000 of them were discovered in a chauffeur of Kadri Veseli. Adem Grabovci, leader of PDK parliamentary group, was involved in the "Pronto" scandal, a leak of audio recordings of an EULEX investigation, in which Adem Grabovci, Hashim Thaçi and Vlora Çitaku discuss employment of an uncle of Grabovci, Curr Gjoci. Shortly afterwards, Gjoci was appointed Director of the University Clinical Centre in Prishtina. In another scandal Grabovci's sons beat several police officers. They were sentenced to a prison sentence of six months which converted to 3,000 EUR fine each.

title: Democratic Party of Kosovo


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Talk:Flag of Northern Ireland

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Current use of the flag on Wikipedia
I am aware that this topic has been raised in the past regarding the status of the flag, but I feel that the usage of the Ulster Banner on Wikipedia should be addressed. Given that Northern Ireland does not have a flag that represents itself, should we really be using the Ulster Banner to represent Northern Ireland? I propose that we remove the flag from the template or else replace it with the Union Jack, which is legally the only flag that represents Northern Ireland. Articles such as the Commonwealth Games and List of FIFA country codes use the UB to represent NI – but we ought to remember that the encyclopaedia is supposed to be accurate and neutral, and we should not use the flag to mirror sporting tournaments because that would be entirely erroneous and misleading. st 170  e  17:57, 4 February 2018 (UTC)

 * As stated at WT:IE, I think this should be moved to WT:IMOS. It's not of direct relevance to the Flag of Northern Ireland article. Scolaire (talk) 14:28, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * The flag is used by a large number of the Northern Irish population outside of sporting events and is used for other things. I even have a nice photo taken in Dublin airport of an Irish made souvenir that states Northern Ireland and uses the Ulster Banner to represent it. In all places as well. Shucks. Mabuska (talk) 15:37, 8 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Alright, I'll move this to IMOS – I was going through the archives of WT Flag Template and they said it was the wrong venue and to post here instead. st  170  e  17:48, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

I've moved the discussion to Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Ireland-related articles. st 170  e  17:56, 8 February 2018 (UTC)

Citation update
There has been a request for a citation of the first sentence for nearly a year, I think.

The lede sentence suggests that the only "official" flag of Northern Ireland is the Union Jack.

Clearly, however, this is rubbish: the Union Jack is the flag of the UK, and cannot therefore be distinguished as the flag of Northern Ireland as well.

While the flag of Northern Ireland is the only flag of Northern Ireland, and the only one that identifies Northern Ireland specifically, that is not my point.

To be clear, my point is simply that the first sentence is completely incorrect.

I intend to change the first paragraph to remove that sentence, and to make mention of the common name for the flag ("flag of Northern Ireland").

Two points:

 * The Union Jack is only used by government officials during official visits to Northern Ireland: it is not used to actually represent Northern Ireland. It is used to represent official UK business.

 * The flag of Northern Ireland is commonly referred to as "the Northern Irish flag" or "flag of Northern Ireland". It is much more rarely referred to as the "Ulster flag" or the "Ulster banner". Of course, recently with the popularity of the Internet and discussion about the flag, the use of the word "banner" to describe the flag has increased. The banner is the actual banner on the coat of arms, from which the flag came to be. --75.177.79.101 (talk) 08:35, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

 * You need to refer to prior discussions and find citation support, Given the controversy over this you also need talk page agreement before making any changes -Snowded TALK 12:32, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

 * In agreement with Snowded. Best you get support here at the talk-page, first. Otherwise, you'll only be making changes that will get reverted. GoodDay (talk) 02:03, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Which is why I've started this discussion.

To that end then, do either or both of you agree that the Union Jack is not the flag of Northern Ireland? --75.177.79.101 (talk) 06:24, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

 * Look at the above section, this item is closed on this page, there is one place to have the discussion, Further any discussion is not about the opinion of editors but has to be based on sourced material. -Snowded TALK 06:29, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

 * Not up to me, but I'd argue that Northern Ireland has no flag. GoodDay (talk) 10:37, 10 February 2018 (UTC)

Flag of Northern Ireland
The first sentence of this article is completely incorrect. The Union Jack is not the flag of Northern Ireland. It is the flag of the United Kingdom. The Union Jack is also not the flag of England. The flag is only the flag of England insofar as England is a part of the United Kingdom. The same with Northern Ireland. There is no legislation that I'm aware of that suggests that the flag of Northern Ireland is the Union Jack, other than as a part of the United Kingdom. I think Wikipedia has a policy against Original Research? Can we have this fixed? --82.2.5.153 (talk) 02:43, 15 September 2018 (UTC)
 * It is not original research, it is what reliable sources say. The first four citations for the article say that. The Northern Ireland Office said that. Wikipedia is based on reliable sources not on logic. You'd have to produce an even better reliable source saying otherwise. Dmcq (talk) 08:41, 15 September 2018 (UTC)

Clarification request regarding the discretionary sanction applying to this article
I have initiated a clarification request regarding the scope of the discretionary sanctions applying to this article: Please review the request at Arbitration/Requests/Clarification and Amendment and, if you wish to do so, enter your statement and any other material you wish to submit to the Arbitration Committee. Additionally, the Wikipedia:Arbitration guide may be of use. Thryduulf (talk) 17:22, 15 January 2019 (UTC)

Flag of Europe
Since the United Kingdom has left the European Union, I don't believe they fly the flag of Europe anymore. I don't have sources for my assumption, but it seems pretty obvious to me that they wouldn't use it anymore. -- Isidor Welti (talk) 17:41, 21 September 2020 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 20:37, 12 January 2022 (UTC)
 * Flag of the Police Service of Northern Ireland.png

Proposed merge of Northern Ireland flags issue into Flag of Northern Ireland
Possible POV fork. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 07:17, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Northern Ireland flags issue was created in February 2006. If it was a POV fork, don't you think somebody would have noticed before now? Besides, what POV do you think it's trying to push? 11:27, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Oppose Obvious PoV proposal to imply something exists when it doesn't-Snowded TALK 14:49, 16 April 2024 (UTC)
 * There doesn't seem to be much content covered in one article that is not present in the other, although from the history I see that they used to be more distinct. -  C HAMPION  (talk) (contributions) (logs) 01:54, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The meat of the "Flags issue" article is in the Controversies section; that is not duplicated in this article. Unfortunately, it is dwarfed by the quite unnecessary mass of images and text describing the flags, which can readily be found in this article or List of flags used in Northern Ireland. The Flag proposals section does not need to be in both articles in full. I would recommend keeping it here and providing a very brief summary in the "Flags issue" article. Scolaire (talk) 15:12, 17 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge in the other direction - Both articles do indeed cover the same content. However, since there's no accepted flag of Northern Ireland, it makes more sense for the article that discusses it to be the Northern Ireland flags issue one, since that is what the actual article is about. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A00:23C4:6B13:D801:88F1:DF0:8A57:E814 (talk) 22:57, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Flag of Northern Ireland


text:
1804 in rail transport

February events

 * February 21 – The Cornishman Richard Trevithick's newly built "Penydarren" steam locomotive operates on the Merthyr Tramroad between Penydarren Ironworks in Merthyr Tydfil and Abercynon in South Wales, following several trials since February 13, the world's first locomotive to work on rails.

June events

 * June 29 - British Parliamentary approval for the Oystermouth Railway in South Wales is granted, and the first tracks are laid.

Births

 * Jean-Jacques Meyer, French steam locomotive designer (d. 1879)

title: 1804 in rail transport


text:
Talk:Stockholm University

Comments
I am not sure about the Sofia Kovalevskaya info here. I didn't remove it, but different webpages claim she was appointed in different years, some say she was the first, some says she was the third. Maria Gaetana Agnesi became the first female professor in Bologna in 1750, or so that page says.

Changed this. She was the third. Laura Bassi and Maria Gaetana Agnesi, both in Bologna were professors before her by more than 100 years.Ellipse 00:18, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Images
Here are some photos I took that could be included once the article grows enough to house them. Peter Isotalo 22:10, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg
Image:NonFreeImageRemoved.svg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 11:30, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

New logo
I've uploaded the new official logo (color changed to blue, name included in the logo) and replaced the old one. No objections I presume? – Adrian Lozano (talk) 16:56, 15 March 2008 (UTC)

Computer and system science is this a correct translation?
Computer and system science seems to be a direct translation from the Swedish word(title) Data och systemvetenskap. This is however wrong because the Anglo-saxon word Computer science has another meaning. If you look at the curriculum for Computer and system science it matches the curriculum for international educations in Informatics. Stockholm University seems to be the only university in the world that gives away titles in Computer and system science from a social science view. Should not the title be Applied Informatics (Computing Informatics)?

The department used to be a joint venture with the Royal Institute of Technology which is why it's named DSV even after the split. It still offers courses in Datalogi, which is the Swedish equivalent of Computer Science but mainly, as you say offers courses in Informatics. 2.248.187.30 (talk) 20:41, 19 April 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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Old Logo
The logo is old. Please change it. I am an intern at the Stockholm University communication section. Please change the logo you can see with the logo the university use today at this link: https://www.su.se/medarbetare/kommunikation/grafisk-manual/logotyp-1.361901. You can use a translator program if you don't understand Swedish. But you see the correct logo in the corner here: https://www.su.se/ Please change it and let me now. FannyFranzén94 (talk) 10:14, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * the logo was updated by PrimeHunter following a helpdesk discussion and then reverted by Jonteemil. Jonteemil, please can you explain why you think the previous logo is better? TSventon (talk) 12:15, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Jonteemil that logo is old. Please change it. If you cont like PrimeHunters change. Find another one. You see in the Link with the logo the university use. https://www.su.se/medarbetare/kommunikation/grafisk-manual/logotyp-1.361901 https://www.su.se/  — Preceding unsigned comment added by FannyFranzén94 (talk • contribs) 12:18, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * To my understanding the SVG logo isn't old although it seems that the university doesn't want the logo to be used without the text for some reason. I'll replace the logo with the one with text during the day, in SVG format.Jonteemil (talk) 13:08, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks, When it is replaced I ask my supervisor what she thinks? FannyFranzén94 (talk) 13:11, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * You may ask her what you want :).Jonteemil (talk) 13:29, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * done✓.Jonteemil (talk) 14:19, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

Thanks. FannyFranzén94 (talk) 14:23, 3 March 2020 (UTC)

English logo
Hi guys can you move the Swedish logo to the Swedish university page: https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholms_universitet and use this logo:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:SU_logo_ENG.png on the English page. It is exactly the same one it just stands Stockholms University on it. Sorry for disturbing but the University is so finicky. Please change it and then return to me. FannyFranzén94 (talk) 14:35, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * What do you think of the English logo? TSventon (talk) 16:37, 5 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I can change so that en.w. has the English logo instead. To have the Swedish logo on sv.w. would need a permission from the university under a license which also means more wikis would be able to use the logo. This is because Sweden doesn't have a fair use doctrine.Jonteemil (talk) 16:49, 5 March 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Stockholm University


text: User talk:69.248.45.117

title: User talk:69.248.45.117


text:
User:Fffs

blah

title: User:Fffs


text:
User:Culix

I am a computer programmer from Canada. I enjoy copyediting. Feel free to ask if you need something edited or want a peer review.

When Wikipedia was created I was in University. I used to write and edit articles on coursework to help me study and learn. I love Wikipedia's goal to become a comprehensive, neutral summary of human knowledge where anyone can contribute.

I have never improved an article to Good Article or Featured Article status. After a long hiatus I am setting a goal to see if I can bring one article to GA or FA. I have chosen The Phenomenauts. Working to dig up reliable, cited information has been a fun adventure.

My favourite Wikipedia article is Lead section. Because you should only need to read the lead section on Lead section, and don't need the rest of the article.

Current projects

 * Clean up The Phenomenauts for Good Article status

Some past projects I have worked on

 * Raygun Gothic Rocketship (check out that amazing picture!)
 * Ascendancy (video game) - Raised to C class
 * DarkSpace - Raised to C class

title: User:Culix


text:
User talk:Fffs

blah

title: User talk:Fffs


text:
Category:2-6-4 locomotives

Locomotives classified 2-6-4 under the Whyte notation of locomotive axle arrangements.
 * The equivalent UIC classification of locomotive axle arrangements is 1C2 or 1'C2'.

title: Category:2-6-4 locomotives


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Acoustic thrash

Acoustic thrash
Acoustic thrash was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete.

If the Speedwood article goes, this one should too, if Speedwood stays this should be turned inot a redirect (I assume). — Asbestos | Talk 23:40, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: Worse than the others.  This isn't even an attempt at an article.  It just says that it's Speedwood by another name.  Geogre 13:43, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete vanity, etc. Aerion 22:23, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Del. Mikkalai

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like other '/delete' pages is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
1816 in rail transport

Events

 * Richard Trevithick moves to Peru with the intention of designing and building steam locomotives for mining operations there.

January births

 * January 3 – Samuel C. Pomeroy, president of the Atchison, Topeka and Santa Fe Railway 1863–1868 (d. 1891).

March births

 * March 1 – John Souther, American steam locomotive manufacturer, founder of Globe Locomotive Works (d. 1911).

August births

 * August 4 – Russell Sage, American financier, director of Union Pacific Railroad (d. 1906).
 * August 6 – Thomas Russell Crampton, English engineer and designer of the Crampton locomotive type as well as a tunnel boring machine for the Channel Tunnel (d. 1888).
 * August 24 – Daniel Gooch, Chief mechanical engineer of the Great Western Railway (England) (d. 1889).

October births

 * October 8 – Aretas Blood, American steam locomotive manufacturer, owner of Manchester Locomotive Works (d. 1897).

title: 1816 in rail transport


text: Template:Ontario politics

title: Template:Ontario politics


text:
Atlantean (film series)

Atlantean is a quartet of documentary films and accompanying book (The Atlantean Irish, Lilliput, 2005) by Irish filmmaker Bob Quinn. The films and book dismissed as myth the popular belief in origins of the inhabitants of Ireland and proposed instead that they are part of a common 'Atlantean' culture that includes the western seaboard of Europe and North Africa.

Overview
Quinn focused on various traditional aspects of Irish culture and argued for their non-Celtic nature. One aspect he stressed is the role of sailing in Connemara society, where his films were made. Quinn investigated the history of the Atlantic sea lanes from the Baltic Sea, Ireland, Britain, as far south as the Mediterranean and North Africa. Quinn suggested that Ireland's first inhabitants came by boat sometime after the end of the last ice age – probably from the warmer, more populous south. As navigation gave rise to coastal settlement over long periods of time, overseas trade and cultural exchanges continued until at least the North African pirates of the 17th century. These connections can be seen in ship building styles and sailing techniques, for example in similarities between the Galway Púcán and the Arab Dhow.

Another aspect focused on by Quinn is the sean-nós or Old Style of Irish song and dance. The non-European feel of sean-nós singing in particular has often been commented upon. Quinn originally proposed a North African origin for sean-nós, but later agreed that it is shared by the Tatars of Tatarstan, thus an archetypal musical form older than the Book of Kells. Quinn argues that Irish language, music and art are related to ancient Iberian, Mediterranean and North African culture, in particular the indigenous Berbers of North Africa.

According to Quinn, the idea of "Celtic" origins was a Greek term – Keltoi (Κελτοί) – used to describe any "barbarian" who was not Greek. The Romans perpetuated the slur until 1707 when Edward Lluyd resurrected it as a compliment. It was taken for granted by Anglo-Irish antiquarians who found it a useful way of distinguishing themselves not only from the English but from the "mere Irish". The term also developed untermensch resonances (see Matthew Arnold).

Bob Quinn developed these ideas into a book: The Atlantean Irish: Ireland's oriental and maritime heritage. Barry Cunliffe, distinguished Professor Emeritus of European Archaeology and author of Facing the Ocean (2001) wrote the introduction to Quinn's ''Atlantean Irish'.'

Evidence
The 'Celtic' Origin of the Irish has long been questioned by archaeologists. In recent years, the discovery of mitochondrial DNA has been used as a method to map the historical migration of mankind's genetic groups. Such genetic tests, conducted in Ireland in 2004, seemed to confirm that the theory of Celtic origins of Ireland's population was genetically unfounded but recent advances in genetic testing (especially recent Ancient DNA findings) are giving an almost opposite picture from the older testing interpretations. In earlier tests, Bryan Sykes, genetic scientist and author of bestseller The Seven Daughters of Eve, while analysing European DNA groups identified what he called the "Clan of Tara" – a genetic group that originated in what is now Tuscany, Italy 17,000 years ago during the Ice Age and that spread along the coasts of the Mediterranean and the Atlantic seaboards of continental Europe, Ireland and Western Britain. Sykes did not conduct genetic tests in North Africa amongst Berbers.

Criticisms
The Atlantean thesis has not generally been accepted by the Irish academic establishment, who have criticised Bob Quinn for his alleged lack of scholarly methodology and the absence of hard evidence to back his theories. Quinn's response to this is to assert that traditional landlubber methods of scholarship ignore the maritime dimension of Irish history and can fail to recognise the deeper, more intuitive links that may exist between cultures and countries. He also asserts that a close-minded, elitist attitude among academics prevents a more sympathetic appraisal of his work. More controversially, he maintains that critics of his work are guilty of an unconscious racism, or in his own words, of being afraid of the idea that Irish people might have 'a touch of the tar' about them.

title: Atlantean (film series)


text:
Category:2-6-2 locomotives

Locomotives classified 2-6-2 under the Whyte notation of locomotive axle arrangements.
 * The equivalent UIC classification of locomotive axle arrangements is 1C1 or 1'C1'.

title: Category:2-6-2 locomotives


text: Template:Non-free currency

title: Template:Non-free currency


text:
1803 in rail transport

May events

 * May – First section of Carmarthenshire Railway opens, the first public railway in Wales.

July events

 * July 26 - The Surrey Iron Railway formally opens throughout, first public railway in England.

June births

 * June 10 – Anson P. Morrill, president of Maine Central Railroad 1864–1866 and 1873–1875 (d. 1887).

October births

 * October 16 – Robert Stephenson, English civil engineer and steam locomotive builder.

November births

 * November 9 - Henry Farnam, president of the Chicago, Rock Island and Pacific Railroad 1854–1863 (d. 1883).

title: 1803 in rail transport


text:
Talk:Quadratic sieve

The paragraph named "Data processing" needs a serious rewrite. I just fixed an error that was introduced six(!) months ago, but even though it does not contain any more "logical errors", it does not show what happens at all. The 350^2 = (-90)^2 example is a very, very bad one, because actually 350 *is* -90 (mod 55). It only happens to prove the result because 350-90 = 2*350 has factor 5 common with 55, which itself is true only because 350 contains factor 5. This is nonsense! I really believe a less contrived example would be welcome, as it would decrease the probability of such errors and would help readers get a better grasp of the concept.
 * OK, I wrote a new example, with a bigger n and more strictly following the procedure outlined in the article (this example uses sieving). Decrypt3 23:44, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)

New stuff
I tried to add a more approachable introduction to the ideas behind the algorithm, based roughly on the presentation from Prime Numbers: A Computational Perspective. Please scan my contributions for errors - number theory isn't quite my forte. Thanks. Deco 22:05, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

Corrections
I'm not familiar with how to edit these pages, but with the example of 1817, you should also produce the term (5,392) with 392=2^3*7^2 being smooth.

Also the line ...

$$x^2\equiv 1817\pmod{p} $$ should read $$(x+42)^2\equiv 1817\pmod{p} $$

I just made a change. The original article said it was an extension of Dixon's algorithm, but I don't think this is a good analogy for two reasons: (i) Pomerance himself described it as a simple change to Schroeppel's algorithm (not Dixon's), and (ii) Dixon's algorithm and Quadratic Sieve are in two different categories: the former is a provable algorithm, the latter is heuristic. Scott contini (talk) 11:39, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

The pseudocode currently ends with if $$ x \not\equiv -y \bmod n$$ and $$ x \not\equiv y$$ then return to main loop. else if $$ x \equiv -y \bmod n $$: return gcd(x - y, n), gcd(x + y, n) I think the conditions are swapped: if $$ x \equiv -y \bmod n $$, then $$ \gcd(x + y, n) = n $$ so the factorization is the trivial one.ATC2 (talk) 01:30, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Space complexity
I'm not yet sure whether the recent correction to the space complexity is correct or not. The optimal choice of the smoothness bound B is indeed the square root of the time complexity. On the other hand, if the bit matrix is represented explicitly, it requires B2 space. On the other other hand, we don't normally represent it explicitly - we use a sparse matrix representation that only stores a small number of factors per row, and reduce it using the Lanczos method for large sparse linear systems. We can't guarantee that the matrix will be sparse, but in practice it is. The cited reference referred to Number Field Sieve and so does not apply. Until someone finds an explicit reference describing the space complexity, I've removed any mention of it, since I'm uncertain myself. Deco 18:53, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

 * I searched high and low, but I couldn't find anything on the space complexity, either. Perhaps it's time to ask someone with more knowledge in number theory. On another note, I'd imagine that each main step of the quadratic sieve would have different complexities, with the sieving and matrix-solving steps being particularly large when compared to the other three. Personally, I think that there are still many things that can be added to the article. --Ixfd64 11:55, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

 * My computational number theory book (already referenced in the article) has the following to say in section 6.1.3:
 * There have been suggested at least three alternative sparse-matrix methods intended to replace Gaussian elimination [...] the space required is O(N ln B). Since our factorization matrices have at most O(ln n) nonzero entries per row, the space requirement for the matrix stage of the algorithm, using a sparse encoding, is O(B ln2 n).
 * If you put this together with the optimal choice of B being $$O\left(\exp\frac{1}{2}\left(\sqrt{\log n \log\log n}\right)\right)$$, this means the space in the matrix stage is:
 * $$O\left(\log^2 n \exp\frac{1}{2}\left(\sqrt{\log n \log\log n}\right)\right)$$
 * On the other hand, my book also says that "there are hidden costs for increasing the list of primes p with which we sieve. One is that it is unlikely we can fit the entire sieve array into memory on a computer, so we segment it [...]". It seems difficult to establish which stage dominates in space, although in practice the space issues of the sieve are more easily overcome. As always, little is rigorous when it comes to QS. I suggest that we say that the matrix stage requires the amount of memory shown above, and leave it at that. Deco 12:21, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

 * It all becomes a lot simpler if you use L-notation. The matrix has $$L_n[1/2,1/2]$$ rows each of which have at most (actually less than) $$\ln n$$ entries.  This implies the size of the matrix is at most $$\left(\ln n\right) L_n[1/2,1/2] = L_n[1/2,1/2]$$ -- the little o in the exponent of the $$L_n[1/2,1/2]$$ swallows the $$\left(\ln n\right) = e^{\left(\ln\ln n\right)}$$ that is multiplied by it.  So the memory is indeed square root of the running time.  Also, memory during sieve stage is dominated by storing the factor base which is again  $$L_n[1/2,1/2]$$ size.  Scott contini (talk) 11:53, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

To do
Some stuff that needs to be done in this article:

 * Explain how the asymptotically optimal value of the smoothness bound B is chosen.
 * Explain better the "sign" bit of the vectors and why it's needed.
 * Talk about multiple polynomial variations.
 * Talk about sparse matrix representations and solution methods and their applicability.
 * Talk about how large a region needs to be sieved.
 * Talk about the use of approximate logarithms to speed up calculations.
 * Similarities and differences with number field sieve.
 * Lots more stuff.

Just some things to keep in mind for future expansion. There is plenty to add here. Deco 01:13, 29 November 2006 (UTC)

In the German Article http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quadratisches_Sieb some of thoose questions (like multiple polynomials, approximate logarithms) were discussed. An Example is also given. 87.234.198.146 11:42, 6 February 2007 (UTC)

Implementing a Quadratic Sieve
Hey, as part of my 3rd year project, one of the things I am doing is implementing this. I think I have found an error in the selection of the Factor Base, could someone please check that 13 should not be in the factor base? Also should 23 be? It's a factor of 1817. I will be further correcting this description if I find what I feel is a mistake, but could people possibly review my changes? Cheers, Tompsci 16:01, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

 * I don't see why 13 shouldn't be in the factor base. (1817/13) = (10/13) and 6^2 = 10 mod 13. Thus the Legendre symbol is 1. And you can't exclude 23 unless you know in advance that it is a factor of 1817. But you can't know that without factoring the number, which is the object of the exercise. In practice a quadratic sieve implementation will trial divide by all primes upto the largest prime in the factor base, it will check that the number being factored is not prime and it will check that the number being factored is not a perfect power. In all these situations the quadratic sieve will fail to find a factor otherwise. Someone ought to remove the thing about the article being factually incorrect (apart from my comments below), and perhaps the talk page shouldn't be used as a means of asking questions for a 3rd year project. :-) Anyhow, 23 is not mentioned as an element in the factor base in the article is it? wbhart 86.20.38.38 03:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

 * I think the error in question has been sufficiently addressed by wbhart, so I am going to remove the tag. Schneau 17:25, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

crossover with NFS
In various experiments using best-available-free implementations (ggnfs for the NFS, msieve for MPQS) I found the crossover was nearer 100 than 110 digits; a 102-digit number was 17hrs msieve and 8hrs ggnfs on the same hardware Fivemack 11:42, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

- This is a moving target dependent on:

* the architecture of the hardware used, memory throughput vs processor clock speed vs hard disk speed, etc * the amount of time invested in optimizing the number field sieve and quadratic sieve * the "goodness" of the polynomials used with the number field sieve (still an open research problem) * the particular numbers being factored - wbhart 86.20.38.38 03:45, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

Fastest factoring method?
The statement that the quadratic sieve is the fastest factoring method for numbers of less than 100 digits and that the number field sieve is the fastest otherwise is factually incorrect. Many numbers of hundreds of decimal digits have been factored with the elliptic curve algorithm and yet the sun would die of heat death before the quadratic sieve or number field sieve would factor them. Also, below about 40 digits, the quadratic sieve is not usually the best algorithm. In practice a cocktail of one or more of SQUFOF, P-1, P+1, elliptic curve method, Pollard-Rho, trial factoring and the Brent variant are used.

The *only* correct statement is that the number field sieve is asymptotically the fastest known algorithm for factoring general integers. The quadratic sieve held this title until the NFS was invented. The elliptic curve method has the same asymptotics, but depends only on the size of the factor, not the number being factored. This makes the elliptic curve algorithm your only hope in certain situations.

For numbers of a special form, many faster algorithms exist, e.g: Zhang's sieve, hybrid QS-GNFS's, the special number field sieve, certain variants of Fermat's algorithm (even special numbers of thousands of digits can be factored with these), etc, etc. Thus the qualifier of "general integer" is required when talking about comparative times. - wbhart 86.20.38.38 04:02, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Heat death refers to the death of the universe, and according to current models will take 101000 years, which is more than enough time to factor numbers with 100s of digits. I think you meant to say the Sun would die of gravitational collapse. Arvindn 06:15, 12 February 2007 (UTC)

It is the second fastest (randomized) algorithm for general inputs, as stated in the third sentence: "It is a general-purpose factorization algorithm, meaning that its running time depends solely on the size of the integer to be factored, and not on special structure or properties." No other algorithms can ensure a better running time on all possible inputs (except the NFS for big inputs). It is a Las Vegas algorithm, which can ensure the running time under certain mathematical conditions (which hold with a high probability). Of course for some specific Inputs there were faster algorithms. The running time of these algorithms depend on certain conditions of the number to factorize. The running time of the ECM depends on the (length) of the factors. --87.234.198.146 14:45, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Right, but that is not what the article says in the first sentence. wbhart —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.20.36.114 (talk) 12:17, 6 April 2007 (UTC).

Partial Relations & Cycles = Large Primes?
As I see it the section labeled "partial relations and cycles" is identical to the methods described in section "large primes." The latter seems to do a much more concise job with the description. Am I right or wrong on this?

I am curious about this statement:

11−1 modulo 91 is 58

Could someone explain how 1/11th can be 58 (mod 91)? Admittedly I may be missing something, but this statement makes no sense to me. 192.54.144.229 (talk) 16:57, 14 September 2009 (UTC)

 * I know you asked a long time ago, but anyway the answer is that "1/11 is 58" (mod 91) because 58×11 is 1 (mod 91). See modular multiplicative inverse. (BTW, I sympathize with your suffering; the article as a whole seems pretty confusing to me.) --Quuxplusone (talk) 04:00, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Numbers of primes and relations
The algorithm description talks about π(B) (the number of primes less than B) which is ok. However, the statement "use sieving to locate π(B) + 1 [relations]..." seems incorrect (i.e. misleading) to me for two reasons:

1) not every prime actually contributes to the factorization (only those which give quadratic residues)

2) because not every congruence of squares leads to a solution, it is common to gather a few more relations (not only 1)

So, something like "π(B)/2 + c" (for some constant c, e.g. 10) might be more accurate. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.215.96.81 (talk) 20:57, 8 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I believe you're correct - rather than just substituting the formula this could probably afford to be explained in more detail. Dcoetzee 23:48, 8 January 2009 (UTC)

General Optimization to the Matrix Processing of QS-Algorithm
The matrix processing is not only a basic part of the Quadratic-Sieve-Algorithm but it is a basic part of all variants of the Dixon-Algorithm. For this reason the following general optimization to the matrix processing of QS-Algorithm is valid also for all the other variants of the Dixon-Algorithm. With this general optimization to the matrix processing it is possible to speed up the execution time of the QS-Algorithm nearly about the factor 3/4 to 2.

Let be N the odd and composite number which is to factorize, S the defined smoothness bound and B = {-1, p1, p2, p3, ... pK-1} the factor base. The factor base contains the factor p0 = -1 and all the primes p which are not greater than the smoothness bound S and where N is a quadratic residue of the prime p. Because the factor base B contains exactly K different factors, the binary quadratic matrix which is to process has K rows and K colums. It's true, to get any linear dependent combination of vectors of a K dimensional linear independent system you need at least K+1 vectors. It's also true that not each linear dependent combination of vectors leads us to a nontrivial factor of N. For this reason you will need some times significant more than K+1 vectors even in the case if K the number of factors in the factor base is relatively small.

If the two phases of the QS-Algorithm - the data collection phase (DCP) and the data processing phase (DPP) - are strictly separated and the DPP is executed after than the DCP is completed then there exist the following problem. Because at the DCP you don't know exactly how many S-smooth values you will really need in the DPP, you must generate in each case enough S-smooth values. That means in the DCP you have to generate not only K+1 but significant more than K+1 different S-smooth values. But it's very difficult to find enough S-smooth values even in the case if the values are not relatively small.

For this reason I would suggest a repeated pipelining of the DCP and the DPP. That means each time if a new S-smooth value was found in the DCP this new S-smooth value should be processed in the DPP at the same time. With other words: Now the DCP and the DPP are no more two different phases of the QS-Algorithm but now they are two different parts of the QS-Algorithm which can be executed as a pipeline, executable as often as needed. If the processing of any new S-smooth value leads us to a nontrivial factor of N, the QS-Algorithm can be terminated at this point, otherwise the next S-smooth value must be found an processed. By this way it is very often possible to terminate the QS-Algorithm successfully even if significant less than K different S-smooth values were found an processed.

A simple test implementation of the QS-Algorithm with a pipelining of the DCP and the DPP leads to the following results: Some times there were needed only about (75% of K) different S-smooth values, often there were needed only about (90% of K) different S-smooth values, and only in very rare cases there were needed more then (100% of K) different S-smooth values to get a nontrivial factor of N.

Because now is no more need in the QS-Algorithm to generate each time significant more then K different S-smooth values, you can successive increase S the smoothness bound. This increases K - the number of factors in the factor base, which leads to a lot more of relatively small S-smooth values, which further increases the execution time of the QS-Algorithm, ...

To achive such a pipelining of the DCP and the DPP you start with an empty binary quadratic Matrix M and you must fill it step by step. Each time if any new S-smooth value Yi was found, you determine its binary exponent vector Ei = (ei,0, ei,1, ..., ei,k-1) where all the ei,j are binary values {0,1}. While the new Ei is not completely zero, determine d the degree of this binary vector Ei. The degree of a binary vector is defined as the index of the most significant bit which is equal to 1. If the row with the index d in the matrix M is still empty - that means completely zero, save the new binary exponent vector Ei unchanged into the row with the index d of the matrix M. Otherwise xor the existing binary vector Ed of the Matrix M to the new binary vector Ei. Now as the result of the xor operation the changed binary vector Ei may be completely zero then try to find a nontrivial factor of N by determining of the gcd(Xi-Yi, N). If the changed binary vector Ei was not completely zero, it has a new degree definitely less than the old degree d. By this way you create step by step a binary triangle matrix where the right upper triangle part of the matrix is completely zero. Its very unlikely that all the binary values at the main diagonal of the matrix M are equal to 1. Even for this reason its possible to find a linear dependent combination of binary vectors and a nontrivial factor of N even in the case if the matrix M is not completely filled.

Please correct me if I am wrong and correct my terrible English, because I am not a native English speaker. Aragorn321 (talk) 10:28, 1 July 2013 (UTC)

How QS optimizes finding congruences
I'm not sure I'm right and my English is not very good, but I think there's something wrong in this section:

 * $$y(x)=\left(\left\lfloor\sqrt{n}\right\rfloor+x\right)^2-n\hbox{ (where }x\hbox{ is a small integer)}$$
 * $$y(x)\approx 2x\left\lfloor\sqrt{n}\right\rfloor$$

I think the second line should read
 * $$y(x)\approx x^2 + 2x\left\lfloor\sqrt{n}\right\rfloor$$

That's because $$y(x)=\left(\left\lfloor\sqrt{n}\right\rfloor+x\right)^2 - n = x^2 + 2x\left\lfloor\sqrt{n}\right\rfloor + \left\lfloor\sqrt{n}\right\rfloor^2 - n \approx x^2 + 2x\left\lfloor\sqrt{n}\right\rfloor$$

The Handbook of Applied Cryptography (Chapter 3, page 95, equation (3.1)) seems to agree. If I'm correct, then the conclusion

 * This implies that y is on the order of 2x[√n]. However, it also implies that y grows linearly with x times the square root of n.

is also wrong. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.180.69.155 (talk) 21:50, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Asymptotically you are right. The $$x^2$$ term only becomes sigificant if $$x$$ is comparable with $$n^{1/4}$$. But in practice when n is large then x will always be much smaller than $$n^{1/4}$$ and hence the approximation in the article is ok. 62.203.19.143 (talk) 09:32, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Oh. You're right. Thanks for clarifying this. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.180.67.55 (talk) 23:29, 4 July 2009 (UTC)

Example correction
Shouldn't the line about finding quadratic residues be 15347 (mod p) instead of √15347 (mod p)? 66.245.72.198 (talk) 21:27, 26 November 2011 (UTC)
 * The line in question spoke of the existence of a square root of 15347 mod p, which is equivalent to 15347 being a quadratic residue mod p. I rewrote it to try to clarify things. Dcoetzee 22:48, 26 November 2011 (UTC)

Error in "the approach
The subheading "the approach" includes the following: To factorise the integer n, Fermat's method entails a search for a single number a such that a2 mod n is a square. But these a are hard to find. That's nonsense of course. Its very easy to find such a. For example -a will work in all cases as will 2 for n larger than 4 and so on. What is meant is something like "a single number a ... is a square of a number other than itself or -a". I'm not sure how to word this neatly and wondered if someone else could do so? Francis Davey (talk) 11:57, 14 April 2012 (UTC)

Implementations
I added my new open source PSIQS package coming with basic QS, MPQS, SIQS and a few other algorithms. Cheers, Tilman Neumann 93.193.186.99 (talk) 14:12, 15 January 2016 (UTC) I know GAP also has a MPQS function, though I'm unsure if it's not derived from one of the others.Billymac00 (talk) 01:47, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

The simple consistency check of the classical quadratic factorization algorithm (Lehman) with the prime number theorem is historically lacking.
Historically, there is no simple consistency checking with the prime number theorem. It's completely lacking in the literature. Nobody knows the exact proof whether Lehman's algorithm is really consistent with the prime number theorem.

I can safely say that historically there is no such explicit proof, but because there is no such proof in the literature, you can never prove it from any sources.

Classical quadratic factorization is the mother of many other quadratic algorithms, including the quadratic sieving, so it's theoretically related.

The main difference between Lehman and sieving is that Lehman uses linear cusp height |c| and sieving uses logarithmic vector height |c log p|.

The string length must be at least linearly correlated to the target string in order to find divisors (if scalable), and the memory size is exponential to this length.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquahabitant (talk • contribs) 04:32, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

p.s.

The sampling cost of quadratic sieving is invariantly exponential because of the exponential Dirichlet unit group.

No matter how you change the relative sieve size B,this exponential cost is invariant.

The definition of the Quadratic Sieving is well-known as

x²-D=Gz²

which is directly rewritten as

x²-Gz²=D

which is a well-known very simple Pell's equation.

The Dirichlet unit sampling cost of the divisor class G=G(a) is given by the linear distance

|a-b|, G(a)=G(b)=G

which is a well-known exponentially sparse distribution.

In order to increase the Dirichlet unit density 1/|a-b|, you have to shrink the sieve string length log(B), which in turn decreases the small (granule) prime filtering density

This is a very simple zero-sum geometric cost; Dirichlet units and small primes cancel the advantages of each other.

This joint probability is always invariant no matter how you change the sieve size log B.

0.5x Sample density = Dirichlet unit density x Small divisor density < 1/p

The smallest sieve dim B=1 and the largest sieve log(B) ~log(D)/2 ~log(p) have no optimization gain at all, and the sampling cost is always invariant( at best.)

Recall that this is not a uniform distribution, because the Legendre symbols give monotonic disadvantage to smaller primes. Use the biased exact counting instead of the uniform Landau distribution.

By definition, the Legendre symbol density is directly correlated to the Galois tensor and the rational point density.

Legendre symbol density x Galois tensor volume /h < Integer point density x Orbit volume. h²~D

Typically, the sieve size log B is the 1/4 (quarter string) of the prime p, which means there are strictly at most only 8 Dirichlet units between p< and <D.

(Gaussian primes must be strictly disallowed, because you want to isolate the hyperbolic orbit and simplify the bothersome counting.)

It is absurd to think (except for rare success cases used for this algorithm) at least one sample has a small divisor z,because the small prime filtering cost log(z) is much larger than 16.

The natural distance between two identical divisors G grows exponentially, because the Dirichlet unit group is exponential. For example, the first unit may be as small as B, but the second unit is the square, and the 4th unit is as large as the prime p. It is very unlikely that one of these four samples has a small divisor z.

To summarize, almost all divisor classes G are practically singletons, which appear only once in any sampling.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquahabitant (talk • contribs) 07:26, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Typically, the first 8 fundamental domains are simply written as

ω²=G 1< |ξ+ζω| < p < |x+zω| < D 1< Norm(ξ+ζω)< D 1< Norm(x+zω)< D²

There are at most only 2 ideals in each domain, because the target D=pq is a semiprime, which means the real density never exceeds the 200% of what is defined here. You must completely skip this bothersome distribution, because this algorithm is actually based on an abstract irrational class K/Q, which means that the 50% of the smallest ideals are destroyed as soon as sampled since ξ(σξ)=Norm(ξ)=1∈Q

The divisors you have constructed are randomly destroyed. The construction speed must be faster than the destruction speed.

By writing

x = exp(a log(ξ) + b log(σξ))

You can easily see that this algorithm needs two independent conditions for each ξ.

They are

a-b =0 mod 2 |a-b|>1

The destruction speed 1/δ (the destructor density 1/δ) in K/Q is defined by a very simple destructor equation.

ξ∈ K/Q ξ+δ =0 mod σξ, σ∈Gal(K/Q) δ<Norm(ξ)

Intuitively, the average lifetime of the (small) ideal ξ is strictly as small as Norm(ξ).

The total destructor density is computed from the height-restricted Dirichlet-L partial expansion.

In order for the cost function to be consistently defined, it must be monotonic. And in order for it to be monotonic,ξ and σξ could be independently squared.

Recall that any post-selection algorithm requires an exhaustive sorting, and any exhaustive sorting requires a quadratic physical cost (the physical measurement of the self-tensor SxS). This quadratic cost is the quadratic swapping cost of static lists, or the quadratic queries(quadratic position measurements) of dynamic lists.

In order to simplify the bothersome counting, you can simply assume that each domain has exactly 2(or 1 if you like) samples.

The Dirichlet unit density is always too sparse,because

|b-a| =|Ua-a|=|(U-1)a|>|a|>p The density of the allowed norms {D} is sparse, and basically, all the sampled ideals (x+zω) are in these last 4 domains.

The 1-d norm sampling cost is at least

(z+1)²G - z²G = 2zG

The density of the allowed norm D is

Norm density < 1/2zG < B/p 2Bp~z²G B<G

which is a relative density.

The total (abosolute) sampling cost is restored as

p/B x B = p

which is identical to the fundamental geometric cost.

Because the density of allowed norm D is too sparse, practically the largest size of G is limited to the square root of p, which means that the largestst subprimes ~ B² are (almost always) never sampled, and because of this same reason, any sieve strings larger than 1/3 (of the normalized prime string length log p) has no optimization gain at all.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquahabitant (talk • contribs) 10:15, 2 April 2021 (UTC)

Because the direct computing of the Legendre symbol density is bothersome, you can exclude the first three cases.

The prime density (asymptotically) is always 1/2log(n), which is too sparse.

The half-string square-free subprime density is always 1/2!(2log(n)/2)², which is too sparse.

The sub-sub-prime(three-prime) density is sparse.

Because all the other square-free divisors k have more than 4 primes, the density is less than 1/16,if you simply assume 50% of the primes are mapped to the Legendre symbol -1.

The full-string square-free sub-prime Legendre symbol density is divided into many width-1 domains.

n-0.5|x+iωz|,the exponential Ja1cobi Θ mapping between the two elliptic curves Θ:[log(unit),2πi]→[1,iω]

Θ:[log |unit| + πi,2πi] →[1,iω]

corresponds to the relative density |(1+i)/(1+1)|. The Dirichlet unit group geometry is linearly correlated to this exponential Θ mapping.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Aquahabitant (talk • contribs) 03:19, 11 May 2021 (UTC)

The Legendre symbol density has a very simple trivial density bound,which is

Legendre symbol density < (4/2ª)

which is directly derived from the very simple trivial decomposition, which is total density = prime density + subprime density +....

From this (asymptotically) rather tight but simple upper bound, you get the trivial sample density limit

0.5x Sample density ~ Dirichlet unit density x Legendre symbol density < (1/p)(2/2ª)

This trivial sampling cost is almost optimal for the smallest and the largest sieves, which is invariant no matter how you change the sieve sring length log(B),except the fundamental exponential Legendre symbol density decay.

The smallest sieve dim B=1 has a very simple sampling cost, which is almost identical to this trivial cost bound.

The largest sieve log B ~ log p has an error term for filtering large primes,but basically the real sampling cost is almost identical to this trivial bound.

Example correction
In the "Data collection" section of the example X=2 should also work. Then we get X+124=126 and X^2-N=529=23^2, which is 29-smooth. But in the section the 23 only gets divided away once leaving one factor of 23 such that the result is not equal to one and 126 gets sieved away. 134.76.61.21 (talk) 14:36, 23 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Quadratic sieve


text:
Talk:Huhuhu

The japanese would either be フフフ (katakana) or ふふふ　(hiragana). Not sure which is 'correct' but the hiragana gets 2x more google hits. Kappa 23:43, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Shouldn't this be at the Hepburn "fufufu"? WhisperToMe 03:56, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC) mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm
 * Since it's typed, not said out loud, I don't think the normal guidelines apply. Kappa 07:18, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * In Vietnamese, this would be crying. DHN 08:50, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:Huhuhu


text:
User talk:Davidmccallum

Unverified images
Hi! Thanks for uploading the following image:

 * Image:Illyak.jpg

I notice it currently doesn't have an image copyright tag. Could you add one to let us know its copyright status? (You can use if you release it under the GNU Free Documentation License,  if you claim fair use, etc.) If you don't know what any of this means, just let me know where you got the imagesand I'll tag them for you. Thanks so much. [[User:Poccil|Peter O. (Talk, automation script)]] 23:44, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)

P.S. You can help tag other images at User:Yann/Untagged_Images. Thanks again.

title: User talk:Davidmccallum


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of -uck words

List of -uck words was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete

List of -uck words
Oh, come on. Luigi30 23:44, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I couldn't find "come on" in the deletion policy. Doesn't seem to be a reason. Since a list of three-letter words passed recently, I think the same arguments will apply to that. There's clearly a consensus for this stuff, whatever I personally think. No vote though. Dr Zen 00:58, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * It's a perfectly valid page for a rhyming dictionary, but not for an encyclpedia. Along with List of -ack words, List of -ell words and List of -ight words, transwiki to Wiktionary, (as well as possibly BJAODN), and then delete. Remember, Wikipedia is not a dictionary, and a rhyming dictionary is a specialized kind of dictionary. -- Karada 01:06, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Agree with Karada. I was just going to say Wikipedia is not a (rhyming) dictionary, when this got pre-empted by an edit conflict. --MarkSweep 01:08, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Yuck Also agree with Karada Kappa 01:11, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Move to a wiki that rhymes with "dictionary." Aerion 01:13, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * listcruft? Delete, not encyclopedic. hfool 01:32, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Why hello. lists. Can all of these be considered in the same VfD? hfool 01:34, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Transwicki. Some poor shmuck tried to run amuck creating entries that suck, but now he's out of luck... P Ingerson 01:43, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: Subject = words | Wiktionary. (Puckish buck, plucking his duck, shucked off an article with which I'll have no truck.)  Geogre 01:48, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Fuck this (someone had to say it; might as well be me, it's precedented). -R. fiend 03:58, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not at all encyclopedic. Another bad list. --Improv 06:34, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Transwiki Don't delete. Just transwiki it. [[User:Squash|Squash (Talk)]] 06:38, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * Transwucki. -- Jmabel | Talk 08:09, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. What these word lists have to do with a dictionary? Dictionaries only describe words one-by-one, never by lists. — Monedula 08:21, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Comment: Some types of dictionaries, like a rhyming dictionary or a thesaurus, do in fact describe sets of words. --MarkSweep 08:38, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Transwiki to wiktionary. The best place for it. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 12:12, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. I don't know if this is suitable for Wiktionary, but it certainly isn't suitable for Wikipedia. I wish someone would set up a Wiki for lists and trivia, it would solve so many problems with Wikipedia being filled with bloat (and hence eventually producing exactly the same problem as the internet has in general - how do you find the info?)Average Earthman 12:26, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Finding things shouldn't be a problem if they are organized and named properly... how would someone accidentally come across that list, except by using 'random page'? Kappa 19:32, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not encyclopedic (and doesn't really belong in a dictionary, either). Katefan0 19:48, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * I suppose a transwiki to Wiktionary is in order. [[User:GRider|GRider\talk]] 21:24, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Deluck, because to allow this will set an insane precedent opening the way for a limitless set of rhyming word lists. Maybe someday, transwiki to LimerWiki. But not anytime soon. - [[User:KeithTyler|Keith D. Tyler  [ flame ]  ]] 01:07, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete or transwiki - Wikipedia is not a rhyming dictionary. -- Cyrius|✎ 01:09, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: Pointless... Coolgamer 01:14, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Not quite pointless — may help people to find something. — Monedula 10:27, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Non-encyclopedic. And the other pages at Category:Rhyme lists as well. The only pages of this kind that could be encyclopedic would be List of -gry words and List of words that rhyme with orange. Eugene van der Pijll 01:32, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. No need to transwiki; Wiktionary already has a list that is essentially the same: . [[User:Livajo|Ливай | ☺]] 07:09, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete --Carnildo 08:30, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Talk:Pulteney Bridge

William and Robert Adam
Paragraph 3 refers to the brothers William and Robert Adam, but William Adam was Robert Adam's father, and died in 1848. Did he have a second son also called William, who was also an architect / builder? If so, please change the link I created to William Adam (architect) to something else.-gadfium (talk) 23:44, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Robert did have a brother William, but he wasn't an architect. I have changed it to James, as Robert and James were partners at this time. Edward Waverley 12:08, 27 Aug 2007 (UTC)

Design
Is there any chance this was designed by the same person who built, or is based on the idea of, the original London Bridge? Simply south 00:04, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

One of Four Bridges in the World?
If the Pulteney Bridge is in a set of four bridges in the world with shops along both sides of their span, and the set includes Ponte Vecchio in Florence and the Rialto Bridge in Venice, both in Italy, then where is or was number four? Not the OldLondon Bridge, which was long gone when Pulteney was built. --Suzikay (talk) 00:20, 28 March 2008 (UTC)
 * There are at least five long bridges lined with shops. The Krämerbrücke, Erfurt, Germany is one and the rather obviously titled, but now rather shortened, Pont des Marchands in Narbonne, France another. For short single arches as part of a continuous street, they're innumerable. I think there may also be some old Chinese bridges within this group. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:10, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

 * If we were ever to start a list article on these (which would be a nice idea), then High Bridge, Lincoln, ought to get a look in too. Andy Dingley (talk) 10:24, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

Call for additional pictures + description of waterfalls
I think that this article could benefit from a picture of the bridge taken down the center. If someone lives near it and can take such a photo, it could be added to improve the article. Lexandalf (talk) 03:47, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

 * Can you clarify what you mean by "down the centre"? Do you mean of the road & shops as seen by someone crossing the bridge? If so I have some somewhere, but we could end up overloading the article with pictures dominating the text.— Rod talk 08:06, 23 February 2011 (UTC)

I'd also like to see a wider picture of the waterfalls and an explanation of how they were developed. ~  JasonCarswell   (talk)   10:17, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

 * You mean Pulteney Weir - see the discussion below.  I would not object to a new article being created about the weir.  If this article were expanded to include more reference to the weir, its title would perhaps need to be changed to Pulteney Bridge and Weir - which I don't think would be desirable.  There is some more about the weir here and here.   Ghmyrtle (talk) 14:22, 2 December 2016 (UTC)

Pulteney Weir
Kennet and Avon Canal, now on the main page, has a piped link to this article under the name of Pulteney Weir. This article on the bridge only mentions the weir in passing. The weir was used for the scene of Javert's suicide in the film version of Les Misérables. See production notes, p. 40. Kablammo (talk) 16:28, 12 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks. I've added this but couldn't find it in the production notes so have used a local paper report as a citation.— Rod talk 21:26, 13 March 2013 (UTC)
 * The production notes do not use the name, but state:"One shot was added for Javert's final suicidal jump into the Seine, which was shot at the spectacular weir on the River Avon in the center of the Georgian City of Bath."Production notes, page 40 (at the end of the page). I doubted there are any other weirs on the Avon at Bath, and your local source confirms the identification. You may wish to consider either creating a separate article on the weir, or else creating Pulteney Weir as a redirect to this article.  As I don't have the knowledge to know if the weir is important enough to merit a separate article, I leave that to you. Best wishes, Kablammo (talk) 16:14, 14 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the additional specifics - I've added the ref & made the redirect - I don't think the weir is notable enough on its own.— Rod talk 16:35, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

Architecture and anything else before GA nomination
I have been expanding this article and responding to the comments made during the peer review, however I'm having problems finding suitable material for the architecture section. Could anyone help? Also is there anything else which other editors feel needs doing before this article would be suitable for GA nomination?— Rod talk 14:20, 24 March 2013 (UTC)

Opening sentence
The opening sentence should describe what the bridge is. That is, what it is now. Bathwick is an area of Bath that contains Georgian streets - no doubt, at the time it was described as a "new town", or a newly-built town, as is explained in the text. But it is not a new town now, and, unlike, say, Edinburgh New Town, it is not described as a new town now. It is misleading to readers to describe it plainly as a "new town" when it is obviously not a new town now - it is simply one area of Bath. Those words should not be in the opening sentence - the relationship between the bridge and Bathwick in the 18th century is described in the text. I'd be happy with a wording something like ".... with the Georgian "new town" of Bathwick..." if the consensus is that some wording other than simply "Bathwick" should be included.Ghmyrtle (talk) 06:46, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

 * How about "... the newly built Georgian town of Bathwick"? Malleus Fatuorum 14:34, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The problem is that the first part of the sentence doesn't say how old it is - readers don't know that until they get to the next sentence. Describing it as a "new town" might give the casual reader the impression that it's somewhere like Poundbury, or Skelmersdale.  Describing it as a "newly built Georgian town" is better, but the sentence still doesn't explain when it was "new".  How about:"'Pulteney Bridge crosses the River Avon in Bath, England. It was completed by 1774, and connected the city with the newly built Georgian town of Bathwick. Designed by Robert Adam in a Palladian style, it is one of only four bridges in the world with shops across the full span on both sides. It has been designated as a Grade I listed building....'"Ghmyrtle (talk) 15:29, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Seems fine to me, do it. Malleus Fatuorum 16:09, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * The change looks fine to me as well.— Rod talk 16:30, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Done. Ghmyrtle (talk) 16:33, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

File:Puente Pulteney, Bath, Inglaterra, 2014-08-12, DD 51.JPG to appear as POTD soon
Hello! This is a note to let the editors of this article know that File:Puente Pulteney, Bath, Inglaterra, 2014-08-12, DD 51.JPG will be appearing as picture of the day on December 10, 2016. You can view and edit the POTD blurb at Template:POTD/2016-12-10. If this article needs any attention or maintenance, it would be preferable if that could be done before its appearance on the Main Page. — Chris Woodrich (talk) 01:40, 22 November 2016 (UTC)

The mysterious fourth bridge
"One of only four bridges in the world to have shops across its full span on both sides."
 * In addition to the Ponte Vecchio in Florence and the Rialto Bridge in Venice, the four alluded to may include the Cedar Street Bridge in Sandpoint, Idaho, U.S.A. Sca (talk) 16:14, 10 December 2016 (UTC)

 * I believe the four bridges are 1) Florence’s Ponte Vecchio, 2) Bath’s Pulteney Bridge, 3) Venice’s Rialto Bridge, and 4) Erfurt’s Krämerbrücke. Hope this helps. Bright Orion |  talk  13:54, 26 October 2021 (UTC)

Cantilevering to the southern face.
The coverage of the development and the loss of Adam's classical purity still isn't well detailed (web searching throws up a few much more detailed sites doing a better job of it). Re this change, it removed the claim that the shops had once been cantilevered out on both sides. I've left this, though unsourced, because I can't find anything to support WP's previous claim that there had ever been cantilevering to the southern, now clear, facade. There's some description of the South side being stripped back before 1951, but it's unclear if this was just the road face, or the outer face too. Sources anyone? Andy Dingley (talk) 10:14, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I think I wrote this originally based on the work of Jean Manco. There is a hint in this web page when she says "It was not to last. 19th-century shopkeepers altered windows, or cantilevered out over the river as the fancy took them." however the detail is in (unfortunately mostly behind a paywall) when on page 140 she says "Engravings then show little change until the middle years of the century, when shop-keepers on both sides of the bridge began building timber additions, cantilevered out over the river like those on the Ponte Vecchio. An engraving of 1864 shows the two on the south side, while a watercolour of the north side (Fig 18) was made to support a complaint by William Lewis to the Sanitary Committee in 1873." (it then has a quote from the committee hearing/report about throwing out water closets via holes in the cantilevered parts, straight into the river). (this (dated 1864) or  this (1886) may be the image concerned).— Rod talk 10:57, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks - I was wondering why I was finding it so hard to find old illustrations of the south face showing this. I just wasn't looking closely enough at the details.
 * So what are these? Your illustrations confirm that it happened, but nor is it substantial. This isn't the north face, where whole rooms and a staircase were being tacked on. Is a couple of small bits of khazilevering like this enough to justify use of the term?
 * I hope the IP who removed this (and who has a relevant IP address) might comment further? Andy Dingley (talk) 11:13, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I've just welcomed the IP and pointed them to this discussion. It appears we have a category of images from ILN 1864 on commons but unfortunately it doesn't include this one.— Rod talk 11:25, 11 September 2017 (UTC)
 * I've just looked up the IP address following your comment - but doesn't mean they are council staff could just be someone using one of their library computers or similar.— Rod talk 11:41, 11 September 2017 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Pulteney Bridge


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Category:Currency images

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title: Category:Currency images