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James Davenport (clergyman)

James Davenport (1716–1757) was an American Congregational clergyman and itinerant preacher noted for his often controversial actions during the First Great Awakening.

Background and early life
Davenport was born in Stamford, Connecticut, to an old Puritan family. Davenport’s great-grandfather, Reverend John Davenport, was a founder and first minister of New Haven. He attended Yale College where he was ranked at the top of the class in 1732. Davenport and his friends were determined to become preachers even though most Yale graduates were pursuing law, politics, or business. They started clubs that would attest the changing character of the Yale student body, and frequently found themselves in adversary positions with the university. This is the beginning of Davenport's mistrust with established institutions.

He was ordained as a minister by the Congregational Council of Southold, Long Island in October 1738.

Preaching career and controversies
It was around this time that he met Presbyterian revivalist Gilbert Tennent and English evangelical George Whitefield. The success of Whitefield's style of revival preaching convinced Davenport that God was calling him, and in 1741 - having by chance opened his Bible to 1 Samuel 14, where Jonathan and his armor-bearer attack the Philistine camp, and taken this as a sign - he left his congregation to become an itinerant. His actions during this time often caused him to run afoul of both ecclesiastical and civil authorities.

Davenport often denounced fellow clergymen for their conduct, such as when he labeled Joseph Noyes, the pastor of New Haven, a "wolf in sheep's clothing." Throughout New England he used this strategy, of condemning his fellow clergymen, to gain popularity.

Davenport is also noted for his "Bonfires of the Vanities", the public burnings he organized in New London. As with those of Girolamo Savonarola, Davenport urged his followers to destroy immoral books and luxury items with fire. He often said that he could distinguish people who were saved versus people who were damned just by looking at them.

In June 1742, Davenport and fellow preacher Benjamin Pomeroy were arraigned before the Colonial Assembly at Hartford, Connecticut, charged with disorderly conduct. Pomeroy's case was dismissed, but Davenport was declared to be under "enthusiastical impressions and impulses, and thereby disturbed in the rational faculties of his mind." No punishment was meted out, but Davenport was sent back to his former parish of Southold.

On March 7, 1743, Davenport exhibited perhaps his most bizarre behavior yet, in an incident which garnished him lasting fame—or infamy. The day before, he had led a crowd to burn a large pile of books; this day he called them to throw their expensive and fancy clothing onto the fire, so as to prove their full commitment to God. Davenport—leading by example—removed his pants and cast them into the bonfire. One woman in the crowd quickly grabbed his pants out of the blaze, and handed them back to Davenport, entreating him to get a hold of himself. "This act broke Davenport's spell," wrote historian Thomas Kidd. Davenport had gone too far, charisma or no, and the crowd quickly dispersed.

After the bonfire ended, Davenport was charged with "having the devil in him", and he replied, "He tho't so too", and added "that he was under the Influence of an evil Spirit, and that God had left him" (49)

According to the Boston Weekly Post Boy of 28 March 1743, Davenport had exhibited signs of physical distress along with his unorthodox behavior, symptoms that at the time would have been interpreted as evidence of demonic possession. In 1744, after publicly acknowledging his missteps and apologizing to ministers around the colony, Davenport published a letter titled, "Confession and Retraction," appearing in pamphlets and in and in newspapers, including the publication Christian History. The letter claimed he had "fallen into the snare of the devil," confessing to being led astray by impulses and the "false spirit," and spoke of a desire to distinguish the “Appendage from the Substance or Essence, that which is vile and odious from that which is precious, glorious, and divine” (Davenport).

Later life
In the late 1740s and 50s, Davenport struggled to reposition himself in the clerical mainstream. It was hard for him to convince his fellow ministers that he could be taken seriously after being judged insane by two tribunals in Connecticut and Massachusetts in 1742. Moving to Plainfield Connecticut in 1744 as a supply minister proved difficult, as he departed in 1745, unable to find support from the Old and New Lights of the area, receiving criticism from both sides.

In 1749 the New York Synod appointed him to a committee that assigned visiting clerics to northern colonies. Though his career saw improvements in 1750 as a minister in Hanover, Virginia, his preaching differed from that of his earlier sermons—less fiery, less experimental, and without song.

On 27 October 1754, Davenport became pastor of Maidenhead and Hopewell, New Jersey, an office he held until his death on 10 November 1757. He was buried in the Old Cemetery lot of the Pennington (N.J.) Presbyterian Church.

title: James Davenport (clergyman)


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Jean II Le Maingre

Jean II Le Maingre (Old French: Jehan le Meingre), also known as Boucicaut (28 August 1366 – 21 June 1421), was a French knight and military leader. Renowned for his military skill and embodiment of chivalry, he was made a marshal of France.

Biography
He was the son of Jean I Le Maingre, also called Boucicaut and likewise a marshal of France. He became a page at the court of Charles V of France, and at the age of 12 he accompanied Louis II, Duke of Bourbon, in a campaign against Normandy. At age 16 he was knighted by Louis on the eve of the Battle of Roosebeke (27 November 1382). In 1383, he began the first of his journeys that would take up more than twenty years of his life.

In 1384, he undertook his first journey to Prussia in order to assist the Teutonic Order in its war against the pagan Lithuanians, who would convert to Roman Catholicism in 1386. After some campaigns against the Moors in Spain, and against Toulouse in France he again accompanied the duke of Bourbon, this time to Spain, which had become a secondary battlefield of the Hundred Years' War. From there he travelled for two years through the Balkans, the Near East, and the Holy Land, in the company of his friend Renaud of Roye and later with Philip of Artois, Count of Eu. There, he and his companions composed the Livre des Cent Ballades, a poetical defense of the chaste knight, the central figure of chivalry, which Johan Huizinga found a startling contrast with the facts of his military career.

In 1390, while the Truce of Leulinghem had temporarily interrupted the war with England, Boucicaut and two other French knights set up the tournament of Saint-Inglevert, where he jousted, along with his two comrades, against redoubtable English knights, unhorsing three of his 18 opponents. The next year he travelled to Prussia for a third time. Because of his great service in the war against the heathens in Livonia and Prussia, he was named Marshal of France on 25 December 1391 by Charles VI at the cathedral of St. Martin in Tours.

In 1396, he took part in the joint French-Hungarian crusade against the Ottoman Empire, which suffered a heavy defeat on September 28 at the Battle of Nicopolis. He was taken hostage by the Ottoman sultan Bayezid I, but, unlike many of his companions, escaped execution and was eventually ransomed. In 1399, he founded the Emprise de l'Escu vert à la Dame Blanche, a chivalric order inspired by the ideal of courtly love: "one might have supposed him cured of all chivalrous delusions after the catastrophe of Nicopolis", remarked Huizinga. In the same year, he was sent with six ships carrying 1,200 men to assist Byzantine emperor Manuel II Palaeologus against the Ottomans, who were besieging Constantinople.

In 1401, because of his military accomplishments and his knowledge of the east, he was appointed French governor of Genoa, which had fallen to Charles VI in 1396. He successfully repelled an attack from King Janus of Cyprus, who tried to take back the city of Famagusta on Cyprus, which had been captured by Genoa. Later on, Boucicaut wanted to attack Alexandria but he was prevented by adverse winds to land there, he later went to Tripoli, then after a costly attempt to capture it, he went south to Botron which was burned and pillaged, then to Beirut on 10 August 1403, which was also sacked and 500 bundles of spices worth 30,000 ducats were taken from the Venetian warehouses there, he later went to attack Sidon then Latakia, which both showed resistance due to strong garrison, he returned to Famagusta in late August, eventually to settle in Rhodes in September, where he dispatched 500 men with two large ships who tried in vain to take Alexandria.

On his return, he was defeated by the Venetians at the Battle of Modon on 7 October 1403. After some struggles in the Mediterranean, the Genoese freed themselves from French rule by 1409.

Boucicaut returned to France and became involved in the rivalry between Burgundy and Orléans. In the Battle of Agincourt in 1415 he commanded the French vanguard, but was captured by the English and died six years later in Yorkshire. He was buried in the Collégiale Saint-Martin, at the location of what is now the Basilica of St. Martin, Tours, in his family's chapel, with the epitaph "Grand Constable of the Emperor and of the Empire of Constantinople."

title: Jean II Le Maingre


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Mehsana

Mehsana, also spelled Mahesana, is a city and the headquarters of Mehsana district in the Indian state of Gujarat. Established in 14th century, the city was under Gaekwads of Baroda State from 18th century to the independence of India in 1947. Dairy, oil and natural gas are major industries in the city.

History
Jaisinh Brahmabhatt describes the following legend in his poems from 1932 AD: Mehsana was established by Mehsaji Chavda, Rajput heir of the Chavda dynasty. He constructed the Torana (arc gate) of the city and a temple dedicated to Goddess Toran on Bhadrapad Sud 10 in Vikram Samvat 1414 (1358 AD). The legend is corroborated in Pragat Prabhavi Parshwanath athva Parshwanathna Chamatkaro published in Vikram Samvat 1909 (1823 AD) by Manilal Nyalchand Shah who also mentioned in it that Mehsaji built a temple dedicated to Chamunda. Another legend says that Mehsaji established the town in Vikram Samvat 1375 (1319 AD). Both legends describes that the town is named after Mehsaji. These legends also inconclusively establish that the town was founded during the Rajput period. According to another story, Delhi Sultan Alauddin Khalji had gifted 284 villages to Punjaji Chavda, a descendant of Vanraja Chavda, who had established Ambasan as his capital. His son Mesaji Chavda later established Mehsana.

Gaekwads conquered Baroda and established Baroda State in 1721. Following the third Battle of Panipat, Damaji Rao Gaekwad removed Babi dynasty from Visnagar and conquered Patan in 1766. He expanded their rule in north Gujarat uniting the regions of Visnagar, Vadnagar, Kheralu, Mehsana, Vijapur, Patan and Harij. He established Patan as its administrative headquarters. Later the headquarters was moved to Kadi and subsequently to Mehsana in 1902 when the city was connected by the Gaekwar's Baroda State Railway which was opened on 21 March 1887. Sayajirao Gaekwad III built Rajmahal, a palace in 1904.

Baroda State merged with the Union of India after independence in 1947. It was merged into Bombay State as Mehsana district in 1949. Later it became part of Gujarat in 1960 after the division of Bombay state into Gujarat and Maharashtra. Mehsana is headquarters of Mehsana district in north Gujarat.

Geography
Mehsana has an average elevation of 375 ft above sea level. By Ahmedabad-Palanpur Railway line, the town is divided in two: the east and western parts are known as Mehsana-1 and Mehsana-2 respectively.

Following the formation of the Mehsana Municipal Corporation, the area falling under the city will increase from 32 sqkm to 112 sqkm by merging of 16 villages.

Administration
Mehsana Municipality (Nagar Palika) was established in 1919–20. Following the merger of Baroda state with Bombay State on 1 August 1949, it was governed by Bombay District Municipal Act, 1902. Since 1 January 1956, it is governed under Gujarat Nagar Palika Act, 1963. It is a part of Mehsana Metropolitan Region.

In Gujarat State Budget of 2024–25, on 2 February 2024, the state finance minister Kanubhai Desai announced the plan to form the Mehsana Municipal Corporation.

Demographics
India census, the population of Mehsana was 184,991, of which male and female were 97,440 and 87,551, respectively. Its urban-metropolitan population was 190,753 of which 100,558 were males and 90,195 were females.

Following the formation of the Mehsana Municipal Corporation, the estimated population living in the city as of 2024 will increase from 3,15,619 to 4,26,997.

The sex ratio was 894 females to 1,000 males. Mehsana had an average literacy rate of 84.26%, higher than the national average. Male literacy was 91.88%, and female literacy was 76.12%. 9.4% of Mehsana's population was under 6 years of age.

At 762, Mehsana had the lowest child sex-ratio among the urban centres in India.

Religion
Hinduism is the majority religion in Mehsana with 88.18% of the population being followers. Islam is the second-most-popular religion in the city at 9.26%, followed by Jainism at 1.62%, Sikhism 0.28%, Buddhism 0.28%, and Christianity at 0.27%. Around 0.01% identified with other religions and approximately 0.36% were of no particular religion.

Places of interest
Rajmahal is a palace built in 1904 by Sayajirao Gaekwad III. Boter Kothani Vav was constructed during the reign of Mughal emperor Aurangzeb. An inscription dated 1674 AD in Persian and Devnagari scripts states that it was commissioned by Shah Gokaldas of Shrimali caste, Laghu Shakha, and his mother Manabai for public welfare. There is another stepwell known as Badiyashi Vav in Biladi Baug. It was constructed by Shah Virchandji Jadavji.

Other historical monuments include Shrimad Yashovijayji Jain Sanskrit Pathshala, T. J. High School, Kesharbai School and Mehsana district local board office. Dudhsagar Dairy plant is a postmodernist building designed by Achyut Kanvinde.

Places of worship
Major Hindu temples include: Pushtimarg temples of Madanmohanlalji temple and Dwarkadhishji temple, Toranvali Mata temple, Brahmani Mata temple, Hinglaj Mata temple, Bahuchar Mata temple, Kalupur Gadi Swaminarayan temple, BAPS Swaminarayan temple, Gayatri temple, Ambika Mata temple and Somnath Mahadev temple. Bhimnath Mahadev Temple was renovated in 1982.

Simandhar Swami Jain Derasar is a temple located near Modhera crossroads. It is 161 ft long, 97 ft broad and 107 ft high. The central deity (moolnayak) of the temple is a 12 ft white idol of Simandhar Swami in lotus position (padmansa). The temple was established in 1971 under guidance of Jain monk Kailassagarsuri.

There is a temple dedicated to Ayyappa established by the South Indian community and a Gurdwara Sahib established by the Sikh community near the Radhanpur crossroads on State Highway 41.

Christian churches include Mar Gregorious Orthodox Syrian Church.

Public amenities
Para Lake, officially Swami Vivekanand Lake, was excavated during the Gaekwad rule. It was redeveloped and opened in 2019. Nagalpur Lake is proposed for development as a public space. There are nine gardens in the city including Parashuram Play Ground, Arvind Baug and Biladi Baug (Mahatma Gandhi garden). Sardar Patel Stadium is a multi-purpose stadium with capacity of 3000 people. Atal Sports Centre was built at the cost of inr 66500000 and opened in April 2022. It houses sports facilities and swimming pool. Vanikar Club is also there.

Industries
Mehsana has dairy, agriculture and road-equipment based industry. It also has oil and natural gas production fields and various small- and medium-size industries. The banking and finance sectors have nationalised, cooperative, and private sector banks. Many large and small road-equipment industries are established in Mehsana-Dediyasan Gujarat Industrial Development Corporation (GIDC).

Dairy
The city is known for its local Mehsani breed of buffaloes.

The Mehsana District Cooperative Milk Producer's Union, popularly known as Dudhsagar Dairy, is a member of the state-level Gujarat Cooperative Milk Marketing Federation and the largest dairy in Asia, processing on average 1.41 million kilograms of milk each day. It has established a network for procuring milk from 4,500,000 milk producers through 1,150 village milk cooperatives.

Oil and natural gas
Established in November 1967, the Mehsana fields are one of the largest onshore-producing assets of the Oil and Natural Gas Corporation (ONGC), covering an area of 6000 km2 with 28 fields in 2007–08. Mehsana also has 1,311 oil wells, and 16 gas wells producing 6,000 tonnes per day.

Entertainment
Wide-Angle Multiplex and Wow Cine Pulse provide entertainment facilities. Shanku's Water Park, Tirupati Nature Park, Bliss Water Park and Taranga Jain temple are located nearby. Mehsana has three radio stations: Top FM (92.7 MHz), Radio Mirchi (91.9 MHz) and relay station of Akashvani (100.1 MHz).

Education
Mehsana has several facilities offering education to graduation and post-graduation. The Municipal Arts and Urban Bank Science College is affiliated by Hemchandracharya North Gujarat University. Ganpat University, located in Kherva village which is 10 km from the city. Gujarat Power Engineering and Research Institute and Saffrony Institute of Technology offer courses in engineering and management. B. S. Patel College of Pharmacy offers courses in pharmacy, and is affiliated with Gujarat Technological University. Sarvajanik Kelvani Mandal Trust offers education in the fields of pharmacy, nursing, and homeopathy.

There are many primary and higher-secondary schools affiliated with Central Board of Secondary Education (CBSE) or Gujarat Board including: Kendriya Vidyalaya, ONGC, Mehsana, Jawahar Navodaya Vidyalaya (JNV), Vadnagar, Shanku's Divine Child School and N.G. International School. K. V. Mehsana made a beginning in the year 1980 with classes 1 to 10 with two sections each and one section science stream and one commerce stream in Class XI and XII. It is a Hindi, English Medium school. In 2021, 966 students were enrolled. T. J. Highschool operated by Nagrik Kelvani Mandal was established in 1889 and Urban Bank Vidhalaya. Gurukul English Medium School started in 2012. Sarvajanik Kelvani Mandal Trust also runs many schools in north Gujarat. Other schools include Sabari Vidya Vihar, run by Dharma Sastha Seva Trust, and Bethany Mission School.

Local
The Mehsana Municipal City Bus Service is operated on eight routes.

Road
Gujarat State Road Transport Corporation (GSRTC) buses also connect Mehsana to other cities and villages. Auto rickshaws and taxis are available.

Mehsana is approximately 75 km away from Ahmedabad. It is connected to Gandhinagar, Himmatnagar, Patan, Unjha and Palanpur, Visnagar via state highways.

Sardar Patel Underpass at Modhera Circle on the state highway was built at the cost of inr 1470000000 and was opened in July 2022. It is 927 m-long, the longest underpass in state.

Rail
Mahesana railway station is a junction station on the Jaipur–Ahmedabad line with daily trains to and from Delhi and Mumbai, and direct weekly or bi-weekly trains connecting major cities in north and south India, including Bangalore.

Air
The nearest passenger airport is Sardar Vallabhbhai Patel International Airport at Ahmedabad. Prepaid taxis and GSRTC bus are available to Mehsana from the airport.

Mehsana Airport is currently used for non-scheduled operation and as a civil aviation training centre, operated by Ahmedabad Aviation and Aeronautics Ltd. It has an area covering 64 acre.

title: Mehsana


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Mohur

The Mohur is a gold coin that was formerly minted by several governments, including British India and some of the princely states which existed alongside it, the Mughal Empire, Maratha Empire, Kingdom of Nepal, and Persia (chiefly Afghanistan). It was usually equivalent in value to fifteen silver rupees. It was last minted in British India in 1918, but some princely states continued to issue the coins until their accession to India after 1947. Similar coins were also issued by the British authorities in denominations of 2⁄3 mohur (10 rupees), 1⁄3 mohur (5 rupees) and the double mohur (30 rupees), and some of the princely states issued half-mohur coins (equal to 7 rupees and 8 anna).

The mohur coin was first introduced by Sher Shah Suri during his rule in India between 1540 and 1545 and was then a gold coin weighing 169 grains (10.95 grams). He also introduced copper coins called dam and silver coins called rupiya that weighed 178 grains (11.53 grams). Later on, the Mughal emperors standardized this coinage of tri-metallism across the sub-continent in order to consolidate the monetary system.

Etymology

The word mohur or mohor (from the Persian word muhr, which means "seal" or "signet ring" ) is cognate with the Sanskrit word mudrā, which in turn comes from mudraṇam, which also means "seal".

Collector value
Gold mohurs issued by the Mughal Empire, the British East India Company or the British Crown are valuable collector items and sell in auctions for high prices. The double mohur (minted between 1835 and 1918) with a value of 30 rupees is the highest denomination circulating coin issued till date. An 1835 double mohur was sold at a Bangalore auction for ₹11.5 lakhs making it the highest ever coin bid in India.

title: Mohur


title: User:Guettarda/temp1


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Talk:Greco-Buddhism/Archive 1

NPOV Dispute
The article repeatedly states as fact that Mahayana is a development of Greco-buddhist syncretism, but offers little or no evidence to support its claim.

Meanwhile there is evidence to suggest that the Mahayana is implicit in the earliest of sutras with Gautama minimally being an exemplar, if not explicitly an advocate. So the notion of Mahayana as a greco-buddhist syncresis appears to be hardly a widely accepted proposition, and therefore at a minimum this article Discussion is (as always) welcome. (20040302 14:31, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC))
 * Needs to state its evidence in a manner that is less suppositious.
 * Needs to demonstrate counter arguments for alternative theories of the ideas and developments of Mahayana.

Mar. 2, I'm with you on this, I really am. In theory. Can we just make it where it says that Greco-Buddhism syncresis led to the development of the cultural form of later Mahayana, i.e. the vessel rather than the contents? - Nat Krause 14:43, 27 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 * Nat, yes, if done at a structural level, I agree. I like the article, I agree with the influence of Greece on Ghandaran art, but there is a different subtext to this article as it stands. The idea that e.g. compassion for the less fortunate is a greek influence on Buddhism is (frankly) absurd, and falls far off the mark. The implicit assertion that the Mahayana religious tradition arose due to Greek influence is likewise absurd.

 * Reinstated the Disputed tag because

- from Artistic influences The very image of the Buddha in Mahayana Buddhism is often considered an example of Greco-Buddhist fusion, with its Greco-Roman toga-like wavy robe covering both shoulders, stylicized Mediterranean curly hair, and the Apollo-like soft and compassionate facial expression, all rendered with strong artistic realism (see Greek art).
 * The article is still in dispute(!)
 * It remains substantially the same article, with 'probably' stuck in it.
 * The article appears to be only interested in one-way influence.
 * If the following paras are pulled, we can begin to remove the POV stigma.

from Religious influences Several other Buddhist deities may be adaptations of Greek gods. For example, the image and characteristics of Hercules were adopted to represent Vajrapani, the Bodhisattva protector of the Buddha. In Japan, this expression further translated into the wrath-filled and muscular Niō guardian gods of the Buddha, standing today at the entrance of many Buddhist temples.

from Intellectual influences Mahayana Buddhism evolved new concepts, which may have been influenced by the Greek understanding of deity and individual excellence:
 * The first physical representations of the Buddha, often in realistic Greco-Buddhist style.
 * A supra-mundane understanding of the Buddha (lokattara).
 * A description of each individual as having a Buddha nature (tathagatha).
 * The possibility of reaching Buddhahood through virtuous acts (bodhisattva).
 * Compassion for the less fortunate.

The new form of Buddhism expanded into Northern Asia from the 5th century onward, to China, Korea and Japan, forming the basis of Mahayana Buddhism, itself at the origin of Zen. -

More precisions
Hi Nat & 20040302. Thank you for the constructive discussion.

 * I think that this issue can be resolved by unpacking the article. We have a definately worthy article on art history, most of which could be better placed under the title Greco-Buddhist Art. Then we have a far more tenuous article on issues of cross-cultural influence outside the sphere of artisanship. I have a lot more to say about the current comments from PHG, but they will have to wait till after the week-end. However, PHG - are you willing in principle to look at splitting the article - if not, could you please explain why? (20040302 08:42, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC))

 * Hi 20040302. The object of this article is to describe the confluence of Hellenistic and Buddhist influences in Central-Asia. The existence of Greco-Buddhist art is among the hardest evidence there is of that confluence. Among the other evidence are the adoption of the Hellenic script, the urban inter-mixing of Greek and Indian life for centuries in the region, the existence of writing such as the Milindapanha, the parallels between Mahayana and Hellenistic thought. But all these elements are part of a whole for the understanding of this cultural exchange. It is also how it has been understood by many leading historians (see references).
 * Of course, you are free to create a more comprehensive article on Greco-Buddhist art, which could be linked to this one.User:PHG

Point 1

 * Point 1, regarding the image of the Buddha as deriving from the Greco-Buddhist tradition, is actually quite a widely held view in History of Art. Excerpts from Boardman (p126., referenced in the text): "The creation of a figure type (expressely forbidden under early Buddhism) seems to have happened in the first century AD, either in Gandhara or in the Mathura region to the south. (...) One might regard the classical influence as including the general idea of representing a man-god in this purely human form, which was of course well familiar in the West, and it is very likely that the example of westerner's treatment of their gods was indeed an important factor in the innovation" etc... Dress, hairstyle and face expression are all considered adoptions of Hellenistic stylistic influences.

 * Good to hear from you too! You may be interested in the article concerning varying views on the evolution of the Buddha image at http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/lordbuddha.

 * User: PHG It is an honour. Thank you for the great informative link. The visual evidence which is given rather tends to confirm the first anhropomorphic expression of Buddha as being influenced by Greek conceptions. For example the Kanishka coin given as an example bears the word "BODDO" in greek letters beside the rendition of Buddha, and Kanishka was actually a Kushan ruler from the Gandhara region. The author even recognizes that "Most scholars assert that the Gandhara images of Buddha are earlier to those of Mathura", therefore reinforcing the Greek connection.

 * Also look at http://www.exoticindiaart.com/article/buddhaimage on the same site. If you actually read the articles in toto, you will agree that there is an open debate as to whether or not the image of Buddha originates from Greek influence. Even if 'most scholars' assert something, it does not make it fact. In an encyclopedia it is better to be factual than presumptious. (20040302 08:46, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC))

 * Even the author of that text says that the only hard evidence for the first anthropomorphic representations of the Buddha are Hellenistic-influenced representations. The only evidence to the contrary are 1) an assumption by some that the first images existed but all disapeared ("Some believe that the first Buddha image had come into being during the lifetime of the Buddha himself. These scholars contend that the tradition so begun continued ever since, but the medium, wood or clay, generally used for making these images, being of perishable nature, could not have such images survive against time."). Or 2) a legend of King Udayana saying the Buddha asked for a representation of himself to be made. Or 3) an a-contrario argument saying that clear prohibitions against anthropomorphic representations of the Buddha have never been found.

 * So the argument is between: thousands of existing Hellenistic representations of the Buddha on one hand, and, on the ohter hand only an assumption and a legend. To anybody, this would hardly be an "open debate".User:PHG

Point 2

 * Point 2, regarding the influence of the God Heracles on the representation of Vajrapani, is a little bit more arcane, but has been clearly documented by the Tokyo National Museum. Besides the photo in the text, there are a few even more expressive ones, but they are copyrighted. I can send a personal e-mail of these if you are interested in the subject.

 * It seems fair that Vajrapani must not be taken out of context. Vajrapani, even in very early manifestations is a member of a triumvirate that also includes Avalokitesvara and Manjushri (They represent the heads of the three families - Vajra, Lotus, and Buddha respectively). Of course my point here is not the visual appearance of Vajrapani in Ghandaran art - I agree that there is little doubt about the influence of greek artisans on buddhist sculpture - but the subtext of your claim appears to be far more broad- it sounds that you are suggesting that Vajrapani is a Buddhist cognate of Heracles, which is misleading and unlikely.

 * User: PHG No denying of the origins of Vajrapani. Before the Greek influence, the imagery of Vajrapani derived from Indra. It was only after that that Heracles was used for his representation. Let's rework the phrasing to avoid any misunderstanding.

Point 3

 * Point 3, regarding the influence of Hellenistic thought on Mahayana, is more prospective and hard to prove, but the parallels are striking and somewhat supported by evidence of mutual exchanges such as the Milinda-Panha text. University of Florida Richard Foltz (p46, reference in the text) gives many interesting examples and summarizes: "Greek as well as Iranian influences appear to have shaped the evolution of Mahayana images (and perhaps thought as well) during the Kushan period".

 * Of course I assume you are aware that the Milindapanha is important to the Theravadin school (which considers the Mahayana to be somewhat heretical). Moreover, if you have read it, it appears that the greeks are influenced by the buddhists. The questions that the greek king Milinda asks reveals a lot to us about contemporary greek thought - and one is led to the conclusion (certainly by this text) that the Greeks absorbed Buddhist thought, rather than Buddhists absorbing greek thought. The answers given by Nagasena are striking in that they both conform to the ideas of Buddhism and also clarify question that have haunted the West for millenia.

 * User:PHG I am not an expert of the Milindapaha, but you probably know that Nagasena is often considered an Indo-Greek (Foltz), and anyway the student of a Greek monk called Dharmaraksita (Milindapaha I.32-35). Rather than Buddhists teaching Greeks or Greeks teaching Buddhists, it does sound like a multi-cultural fusion where Greeks were actively developping their own understanding of Buddhism, at the time and place Mahayana was arising.

Furthermore

 * Furthermore, the issue of compassion is especially striking. there is no doubt that Buddha himself taught and practiced compassion in a deeply profound manner, and we are aware of Buddhist missionaries in both the greek world and the middle east in the last centuries BC. It is not even unreasonable to suggest that Jesus was deeply influenced by these early Buddhist ideas during the development of his gospel, something that the Vatican appears to wish to steer scholars away from thinking about (see the defensive attitude regarding this in the catholic encyclopedia).

 * User:PHG I totally agree. The Greeks who were in contact with India had kept communications with the Mediterranean bassin: Plutarch talks about Menandros. Christianity and Mahayana have many, many things in common.

 * Well, (a) Wikipedia isn't the place to prove anything; we can cite scholarly claims and disagreements, but that's about it, (b) most of the Mahayana doctrines can be accounted for by the outgrowth of early schismatic schools among the eighteen (particularly things like Buddha-nature--and where is that supposed to be found in Greek thought, anyway?), (c) some of the elements, such as the supramundanity of the Buddha, should clearly be derivable from native Indian influences, with the tradition of superhuman avatars being what it is, (d) broad similarities between Indian and Greek thought may be in some degree owing to the fact that Greek and Indian thought are, of course, genetically related!! and the Greek gods and the Indian devas are ultimately drawn from the same Proto-Indo-European pantheon, etc. Indeed, India should logically be closer to the source, just as the classical Indian languages preserve an older form of speech. -- कुक्कुरोवाच|Talk‽ 18:48, 28 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * User:PHG Mahayana of course has a strong Indian Buddhist substrate, but the deification of Buddha, the boddhisattva concept, the treatment of Buddha in a realistic human form along the lines of Apollo, the notion that an individual can become a god (the Buddha-nature element) point, according to many sources, to the Greco-Buddhist influence, which is the subject of this article.

 * I think the best approach is to cite what authors put forward what parts of these hypotheses in the article. "X" says that the deification of Buddha is Greek in origin, etc., and whatever claims don't have a concrete specifiable etiology should be dropped. Incidentally, regarding the NPOV notice, I don't think this is a POV problem, I think it's a factual accuracy problem--we're not being sectarian here, we're debating history. Is there an alternative disclaimer that might cover this? -- कुक्कुरोवाच|Talk‽ 17:15, 30 Jun 2004 (UTC)

This is a delicate, but very interesting subject, and I hope the article can convey a better understanding of the interaction between cultures.

title: Talk:Greco-Buddhism/Archive 1


text:
The Wall Street Journal Europe

The Wall Street Journal Europe was a daily English-language newspaper that covered global and regional business news for Europe, the Middle East, and Africa (EMEA). Published by the Dow Jones & Company, a News Corp company, it formed as a part of the business publication franchise that included The Wall Street Journal, The Wall Street Journal Asia, and The Wall Street Journal Online. The final print edition of the newspaper was published on 29 September 2017.

Background
Founded in 1983, The Wall Street Journal Europe was printed in nine locations throughout the region, including in Belgium, Germany, Ireland, Italy, Spain, Switzerland, Turkey, the U.K., and Israel. The paper was distributed in more than 60 countries, and almost 80% of its subscribers were European citizens. The paper ceased publication in 2017.

The website of The Wall Street Journal Europe offered news and analysis, opinion, market data, and multimedia features tailored for a European audience by a London-based editorial team. Blogs included New Europe, covering Eastern and Central Europe; Iain Martin's blog on U.K. Politics The Source; and Real Time Brussels, offering analysis on events through the European business day.

Content was also available via mobile devices, including a Europe edition of the WSJ.com BlackBerry Reader. A mobile-optimized website provided continually updated news, information, and analysis from Europe.WSJ.com via any web-enabled mobile device or smartphone.

Circulation figures
Growth figures for circulation of The Wall Street Journal Europe may not be directly comparable to that of other newspapers beginning January 2008 due to the Journal's contract with Executive Learning Partnership (ELP) of the Netherlands. This agreement involved ELP's purchasing copies of the newspaper at between 1–5 cents a copy, well below normal market price. These copies, given at no cost to students, represented 41% of The Wall Street Journal Europe circulation by 2010. Since ELP received payments from the Journal through intermediary companies, some journalists and a whistleblower then employed by the Journal alleged that the newspaper was secretly boosting circulation figures by buying its own papers. This could have had a positive impact on the newspaper's advertising revenues. The contract also committed the Journal to publishing articles that reportedly promoted ELP's activities. While maintaining that the arrangement was legitimate and appropriate, the European managing director of the Journal's parent Dow Jones & Company, Andrew Langhoff, resigned in October 2011. Les Hinton, who was chief executive officer of Dow Jones & Company and who was reportedly advised of the arrangement with ELP, resigned in July 2011 in conjunction with the unrelated News International phone hacking scandal.

title: The Wall Street Journal Europe


text:
North American cuisine

North American Cuisine includes foods native to or popular in countries of North America, such as Canadian cuisine, American cuisine, African American cuisine, Mexican cuisine, Caribbean cuisine and Central American cuisine. North American cuisines display influence from many international cuisines, including Native American cuisine, Jewish cuisine, African cuisine, Asian cuisine, Middle Eastern cuisine, and especially European cuisine.

As a broad, geo-culinary term, North American cuisine also includes Central American and Caribbean cuisines. These regions are part of North America, so these regional cuisines also fall within the penumbra of North American cookery.

The term "regional" is somewhat ambiguous, however, since the cuisine of Puerto Rico can differ markedly from Cuban cuisine; Mexican cuisine spills across the border into the Tex-Mex and Mexi-Cali "sub-cuisines"; and the cuisines of Michigan and Ontario have more in common with each other than either has with the cuisines of Manitoba or Iowa.

North American cuisine can also include dishes and cuisines that originated in North America such as the Canadian poutine and regional cuisines like California cuisine.

Countries

 * American cuisine
 * Anguillan cuisine
 * Antigua and Barbuda cuisine
 * Bahamian cuisine
 * Barbadian cuisine
 * Belizean cuisine
 * Bermudian cuisine
 * British Virgin Islands cuisine
 * Canadian cuisine
 * Caymanian cuisine
 * Costa Rican cuisine
 * Cuban cuisine
 * Dominica cuisine
 * Dominican Republic cuisine
 * Greenlandic cuisine
 * Grenadan cuisine
 * Guatemalan cuisine
 * Haitian cuisine
 * Honduran cuisine
 * Jamaican cuisine
 * Mexican cuisine
 * Montserratian cuisine
 * Nicaraguan cuisine
 * Panamanian cuisine
 * Puerto Rican cuisine
 * Saint Barthélemy cuisine
 * Saint Lucian cuisine
 * Salvadoran cuisine
 * Trinidadian and Tobagonian cuisine
 * United States Virgin Islands cuisine

title: North American cuisine


text:
User talk:Atraxani

Welcome to the Wikipedia
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Feel free to contact me personally with any questions you might have. The Village pump is also a good place to go for quick answers to general questions. You can sign your name by typing 4 tildes, like this: ~.

Be Bold!

[[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade Wants you to vote!]] 22:09, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Integration by substitution
Hi Chris. Please see Talk:Substitution rule. Thanks. Oleg Alexandrov (talk) 03:47, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Double bass
It's not clear exactly what you were referring to in your non-edit edit of this article: could you explain? --ILike2BeAnonymous 19:55, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

Image copyright problem with Image:OnInt.png
Thanks for uploading Image:OnInt.png. However, the image may soon be deleted unless we can determine the copyright holder and copyright status. The Wikimedia Foundation is very careful about the images included in Wikipedia because of copyright law (see Wikipedia's Copyright policy).

The copyright holder is usually the creator, the creator's employer, or the last person who was transferred ownership rights. Copyright information on images on Wikipedia is signified using copyright templates. The three basic license types on Wikipedia are open content, public domain, and fair use. Find the appropriate template in Image copyright tags and place it on the image page like this:.

Please signify the copyright information on any other images you have uploaded or will upload. Remember that images without this important information can be deleted by an administrator. You can get help on image copyright tagging from Wikipedia talk:Image copyright tags. -- Carnildo 22:21, 1 February 2006 (UTC)

I added the Bookcover template and put the image back on the page.Atraxani 17:48, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

title: User talk:Atraxani


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Dalek Supreme

from VfD:

Reason I recommended this article for VfD: #1 - Bad, very bad redirect. #2 - Poorly written fancruft, probably vanity for someone's un-notable online fantasy story. —ExplorerCDT 22:10, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete —ExplorerCDT 22:10, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep I've made this a proper redirect; Dr. Who trivia, IMHO, belongs on Wikipedia. Samboy 22:28, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep the redirect.Dr Zen 01:03, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Redirects go on WP:RFD. --fvw *  01:57, 2004 Dec 15 (UTC)
 * Delete: One big page of Daleks, with the Maxi Mound of Dalek Prime and all the others. Geogre 01:59, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I don't see how this is poorly written, it's a redirect. I don't see how its a poor redirect, it lets an obvious word transposition pass without navigational trouble. Someone's online fantasy story? Exactly how is the longest running sci-fi show in history and no longer airing, online? This VFD proposal doesn't make sense to me. 132.205.15.43 03:33, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. It is a redirect now, but for a page I have voted to delete so this should go to in my opinion. Indrian 06:38, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. It's a reasonable redirect. Factitious 17:13, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Exterminate!  Exterminate! --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 04:14, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * COMMENT Daleks are in the Doctor Who universe.
 * Redirect to Dalek Ranks. Merge already done.  The Steve  07:49, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)
 * Redirect. P Ingerson 15:47, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete and merge Dalek Ranks (why is R capitalized?) with Dalek. DreamGuy 22:03, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)
 * Redirect. [[User:GRider|GRider\talk]] 17:59, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion


text:
User talk:Iustinus

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Amenhotep III
Hi! (My English is not very good). I am user from Israel, and user:ijon Talk to you for me. I have Another question: you Know What does the names: Sitamun (daughter of Pharaoh Amenhotep III) and Isis (daughter of Pharaoh Amenhotep III)? Thank you very much! yair. Yair9a (talk) 14:21, 9 January 2015 (UTC)
 * Ok, thank you very much! Yair9a (talk) 06:25, 11 January 2015 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!
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title: User talk:Iustinus


text:
Nina Kulagina

Nina Kulagina, Ninel Sergeyevna Kulagina (Нине́ль Серге́евна Кула́гина, born Ninel Mikhaylova ) (30 July 1926 – 11 April 1990) was a Russian woman who claimed to have psychic powers, particularly in psychokinesis. Academic research of her phenomenon was conducted in the USSR for the last 20 years of her life.

Kulagina was suspected of utilizing hidden magnets and threads to perform her feats. She was caught cheating on more than one occasion according to the authors of several books and publications. In 1987, Kulagina sued and won a partial victory in a defamation case brought against a Soviet government magazine that had accused her of fraud.

Biography
Kulagina, who was born in 1926, joined the Red Army at age fourteen, entering its tank regiment during World War II, but she was a housewife at the time that her alleged psychic abilities were studied and she entered international discourse in the 1960s. During the Cold War, silent black-and-white films were produced, in which she appeared to move objects on a table in front of her without touching them. These films were allegedly made under controlled conditions for Soviet authorities and caused excitement for many psychic researchers around the world, some of whom believed that they represented clear evidence for the existence of psychic phenomena. According to reports from the Soviet Union, 40 scientists, two of whom were Nobel laureates, studied Kulagina. In Investigating Psychics, Larry Kettlekamp claims that Kulagina was filmed separating broken eggs that had been submerged in water, moving apart the whites and yolks, during which event such physical changes were recorded as accelerated and altered: heartbeat, brain waves and electromagnetic field. To ensure that external electromagnetic impulses did not interfere, she was placed inside of a metal cage while she supposedly demonstrated an ability to remove a marked matchstick from a pile of matchsticks under a glass dome.

Kulagina claimed that she first recognized her ability, which she believed she had inherited from her mother, when she realized that items spontaneously moved around her when she was angry. Kulagina said that in order to manifest the effect, she required a period of meditation to clear her mind of all thoughts. When she had obtained the focus required, she reported a sharp pain in her spine and the blurring of her eyesight. Reportedly, storms interfered with her ability to perform psychokinetic acts.

One of Kulagina's most celebrated experiments took place in a Leningrad laboratory on 10 March 1970. Having initially studied the ability to move inanimate objects, scientists were curious to see if Kulagina's abilities extended to cells, tissues, and organs. Sergeyev was one of many scientists present when Kulagina attempted to use her energy to stop the beating of a frog's heart floating in solution. He said that she focused intently on the heart and apparently made it beat faster, then slower, and using extreme intent of thought, stopped it.

Dispute
Many individuals and organizations, such as the James Randi Educational Foundation and the Italian Committee for the Investigation of Claims on the Paranormal (CICAP) express skepticism regarding claims of psychokinesis. Massimo Polidoro has written that the long preparation times and uncontrolled environments (such as hotel rooms) in which the experiments with Kulagina took place left much potential for trickery. Magicians and skeptics have argued that Kulagina's feats could easily be performed by one experienced in sleight of hand, through means such as cleverly concealed or disguised threads, small pieces of magnetic metal, or mirrors and the Cold War-era Soviet Union had an obvious motive for falsifying or exaggerating results in the potential propaganda value in appearing to win a "Psi Race" analogous to the concurrent Space Race or arms race.

In the 1960s, Russian journalist Vladimir Lvov published an article in Pravda which accused Kulagina of fraud. Lvov wrote that she performed one of her tricks by concealing a magnet on her body. The article also reported that Kulagina had been arrested for cheating the public out of five thousand rubles. Science writer Martin Gardner described Kulagina as a "pretty, plump, dark eyed little charlatan" who had been caught using tricks to move objects. According to Gardner, she was "caught cheating more than once by Soviet Establishment scientists."

In 1986, the magazine Man and Law published by the Soviet Ministry of Justice accused Kulagina of fraud. Kulagina sued the magazine journalists for defamation and won a partial victory on the suit a year later. The court ruled that the journalists did not have direct evidence of fraud. Kulagina was not present at the trial. The Russian Skeptic Society have noted that the trial's conclusion "does not say anything about whether Kulagina has been confirmed to have anomalous abilities".

title: Nina Kulagina


text:
Aaron Brooks (American football)

Aaron Lafette Brooks (born March 24, 1976) is an American former football quarterback who played in the National Football League (NFL) for eight seasons, primarily with the New Orleans Saints. He was a member of the Saints for six seasons, where he set the franchise records for regular season and career touchdown passes. In between his New Orleans tenure, Brooks spent his first season with the Green Bay Packers, who selected him in the fourth round of the 1999 NFL Draft, and his final season with the Oakland Raiders.

Brooks' most successful season was in 2000 when he led the Saints to their first playoff victory in franchise history. For his accomplishments with the franchise, he was inducted to the New Orleans Saints Hall of Fame in 2014.

Early life
Brooks lived in a public housing project in the East End area of Newport News. Mentored by Coach Tommy Reamon, Brooks played high school football and graduated from Homer L. Ferguson High School in Newport News. He was awarded a scholarship to attend the University of Virginia (UVA), from which he graduated in 1999.

College career
Brooks enrolled at the University of Virginia in the fall of 1994 and was a redshirt as a true freshman. He was a backup to Mike Groh in 1995. He competed with fifth year senior Tim Sherman, whose father Tom was the wide receivers coach, for the starting quarterback job in 1996. The Cavaliers were returning defensive players such as Jamie Sharper, James Farrior, and Ronde Barber. The offense was led by running back Tiki Barber. The coaching staff made Sherman, who had played well against Michigan and Virginia Tech in 1995 after starter Mike Groh went down to injury, the primary quarterback instead of the inexperienced Brooks. Nonetheless, Brooks received playing time in nearly all games and was the primary quarterback in a few. Inconsistent quarterback play by both Brooks and Sherman led to an underachieving season, and Virginia fans still debate the quarterback play of the 1996 season.

Brooks was the starter in 1997. Both Brooks and the team struggled in the early part of the season but surged late to finish the season with a 7–4 record. In 1998, the team got off to a strong start and was briefly in the top ten. The highlight of the year, and Brooks' career, was the season finale at Virginia Tech. The Cavaliers were down 29–7 at halftime, but Brooks led the biggest comeback in school history in the 36–32 victory. The Cavaliers finished the regular season with a 9–2 record, which earned them an invitation to the Peach Bowl where they suffered a 35–33 defeat at the hands of Georgia.

Green Bay Packers
In 1999, Brooks began his career as a third-string backup to Brett Favre behind second-string quarterback Matt Hasselbeck, taking no snaps during the regular season.

New Orleans Saints
The Packers traded Brooks and tight end Lamont Hall to the New Orleans Saints for linebacker K. D. Williams and the Saints' third round pick in the 2001 draft ahead of the 2000 season.

In his first season with the Saints, Brooks took over as starting quarterback after Jeff Blake was sidelined with a broken foot in the team's 11th game of the season. In his first NFL start, Brooks led the Saints to a 31–24 victory over the St. Louis Rams, becoming the first QB in NFL history to defeat the defending Super Bowl champions on the road in his first career start. Brooks led the team to a 3–2 record in his five starts for an overall 10–6 record, winning the NFC West. In the playoffs, the Saints defeated the Rams, 31–28. The Saints were without their starting running back, Ricky Williams, and lost their best receiver, Joe Horn, early in the game. Brooks threw four touchdown passes to lead the Saints to their first playoff win in franchise history, becoming the first QB in NFL history to eliminate the defending Super Bowl champions in his first career postseason start. The Saints then lost their Divisional Playoff game to the Minnesota Vikings, 34–16.

In 2001, the Saints went 7–9, ending on a four-game losing streak. In those last four games of the season, the Saints would be outscored by more than 100 points, 160–52. Brooks threw a then franchise record-tying 26 touchdowns and a career best 3,832 passing yards in his first full season as a starting quarterback; he also threw a then-franchise record 22 interceptions.

In 2002, Brooks lead the Saints to a 6–2 record and guided an offense that averaged 32 points a game through the first half of the season before the team imploded in the second half. The Saints went 3–5 to finish the season, losing their last three games to teams eliminated from playoff contention.

2003 was Brooks' most efficient year, compiling an 88.8 passer rating, a 3:1 touchdown to interception ratio, and a 59.1% completion rate, all career bests. However, the Saints finished 8–8 and did not make the playoffs.

In 2004, the Saints started 4–8, but finished the season with a four-game winning streak. The Saints almost made the playoffs but lost out on tiebreakers. Brooks threw 16 interceptions that year, twice as many interceptions as the previous year. 2004 was also the final year Brooks threw for more than 3,000 in a season.

In late 2005, after losing to the Falcons, the Saints benched Brooks and announced Todd Bouman as the team's starter for the last three games of the season. It was a poor year for Brooks, who threw 17 interceptions and 13 touchdowns.

Oakland Raiders
After being released by the Saints, Brooks was signed by the Oakland Raiders in March 2006. He was the starter going into training camp. In his first regular season game as a Raider, he was sacked 9 times by the San Diego Chargers in a 27–0 loss. Brooks dislocated his shoulder in his second game against the Baltimore Ravens and missed the next several weeks. Second-year quarterback Andrew Walter started the next seven games for Oakland. After a 2–5 record over that span, a healthy Brooks was placed back into the starter's role. Despite slightly improved play, Brooks was unable to lead the defensive Raiders to very much success finishing with a league worst 2–14 record. Brooks also went on to have a career low 61.7 quarterback rating, and again threw more interceptions, eight, than touchdowns, three.

Brooks was released by the Raiders when they did not pick up his option after the 2006 season.

Post-playing career
Following his retirement from pro football in 2007, Brooks announced plans to go into property development. In the summer of 2008, work began on his first project to be underway, Burlington Woods, an upscale subdivision located on 17 acre in James City County, Virginia. Brooks oversaw the project through its completion, and Ryan Homes took over the construction phase.

Earlier in 2008, he announced plans to invest in Southeast Commerce Center, a redevelopment project in his hometown of Newport News. In a July 2008 interview, Brooks described plans to redevelop part of downtown Newport News. The multimillion-dollar investment would be a mixed-use development between Jefferson and Terminal avenues and 33rd and 29th streets in the economically depressed East End area., including 190 town houses, a grocery store and retail offerings. Vice Mayor Charles Allen, who has represented the district for 16 years on the Newport News City Council, said that it was "significant that one of our own has taken his resources and other resources to show us that we can do it. It's a good day. It's a good day for our community." Brooks commented, "It's a great opportunity to give back to the community and at the same time let retailers know we don't just have the stigma of being 'bad news,' ... a lot of hard-working, middle-class people that live in the area. I'm just trying to make the area better for them." As of August 2010, the project had not commenced, but was reported to be back on track after negotiations between Brooks and the city council. The project is now known as Brooks Crossing and continues as of 2024.

In 2014, Brooks was inducted into the New Orleans Saints Hall of Fame, along with former teammate John Carney. Special celebrations were drawn including a private party with Pharrell Williams, Swizz Beatz, Alicia Keys, Michael Vick and Marcus Vick.

Personal life
Brooks is the second cousin of Michael and Marcus Vick.

title: Aaron Brooks (American football)


text:
Călin Popescu-Tăriceanu

Călin Constantin Anton Popescu-Tăriceanu (born 14 January 1952) is a Romanian politician who was Prime Minister of Romania from 29 December 2004 to 22 December 2008. He was also president of the National Liberal Party (PNL) and the vice-president of the European Liberal Democrat and Reform Party (ELDR), two positions he assumed in 2004.

He previously served as the President of the Senate, the second position in the Romanian state, from 10 March 2014 until he resigned on 2 September 2019, having previously resigned from his own party, the PNL, and then becoming an independent senator. In July 2014, he established the Liberal Reformist Party (PLR) which later merged with the Conservative Party (PC) in order to form the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats (ALDE).

Personal life
Călin Popescu-Tăriceanu was born in Bucharest. His mother, Alexandrina Louiza, was of Greek ancestry –her mother was fully Greek while her father was half-Romanian, half-Greek. He has been married five times and has three children. Popescu-Tăriceanu is a graduate of the Technical University of Civil Engineering of Bucharest and has a master's degree in Mathematics and Computer Science.

Early political career
Between 1996 and 1997, he served as Minister of Industries and Commerce in Victor Ciorbea's CDR-led cabinet. Between 1996 and 2004, he was a member of the Chamber of Deputies, representing Bucharest. Between 2000 and 2004, he was vice president of the PNL group in Parliament, as well as vice president of the Budget, Finances and Insurance Committee in the Chamber of Deputies.

Prime Minister

Following the victory of Traian Băsescu in the 2004 presidential election, Băsescu appointed Popescu-Tăriceanu as Prime Minister, in line with a pre-electoral agreement between the two parties of the Justice and Truth Alliance (DA). The new government took office on 29 December; it was approved by Parliament by a vote of 265 for and 200 against. Consequently, he became the first National Liberal prime minister of Romania since 1937.

The Tăriceanu government oversaw a number of major reforms, such as the introduction of a flat tax, the revaluation of the leu, the abolition of conscription and professionalization of the Romanian Armed Forces, and the accession of Romania to the European Union in 2007. His term also coincided with a considerable economic boom in Romania. However, economists criticized several of Tăriceanu's policies, such as the introduction of a "first registration tax" for motor vehicles, faulty management of over 2 billion euros acquired following the privatization of BCR, and, most prominently, an increase in the number of public servants and their salaries, which resulted in a major increase in public spending on the eve of the financial crisis.

On 7 July 2005, Popescu-Tăriceanu announced that he and his cabinet would resign in order to trigger early elections. The announcement of the resignation was prompted by the Constitutional Court's decision to block a set of laws designed to reform the judicial system. President Traian Băsescu had been pushing for early elections since his victory in the 2004 elections. On 19 July, Popescu-Tăriceanu reversed the decision and announced he would not resign, citing the severe floods that hit the country (for example the Comăneşti floods). Floods killed 66 people in Romania that year, leaving thousands homeless.

At that point, relations began to publicly sour between Popescu-Tăriceanu and President Băsescu, who refused to meet with the Prime Minister in the days following the announced reversal.

In the view of former President Emil Constantinescu, however, relations between Popescu-Tăriceanu and President Băsescu started to become strained following allegations of Băsescu's past membership in the Securitate (during Communist Romania).

In September 2005, a newspaper alleged that on 9 April 2004, Tăriceanu bought 10 million shares of the Rompetrol company based on insider information, shares that were sold later that year after he became Prime Minister. Several other publicly known persons were cited to testify about their involvement in questionable transactions with Rompetrol shares, including the company's CEO, Dinu Patriciu.

On 5 April 2006, Băsescu stated that he regrets naming Tăriceanu Prime Minister, and accused him of partnership with other groups.

On 29 June 2006, Tăriceanu officially announced that the National Liberal Party (PNL) supports the withdrawal of Romanian troops from international battle zones where they are deployed without a mandate from the United Nations, NATO, or the European Union. This mainly concerns the Romanian troops in Iraq (present there following the Iraq War). This position is strongly opposed by President Băsescu.

On 14 March 2007, Popescu-Tăriceanu postponed the elections for the European Parliament claiming that the political environment was too unstable due to discussions regarding President's impeachment, the subsequent referendum, and the fact that President Băsescu asked for a referendum regarding uninominal elections. The media also pointed out that Popescu-Tăriceanu's National Liberal Party (PNL) stood to perform poorly in the elections if they were held at the time.

On 21 March 2007, he assumed an ad interim (i.e. acting) position of the office of Minister of Foreign Affairs, 43 days after Ungureanu's resignation, because President Băsescu refused to accept the nomination of Adrian Cioroianu. On 5 April 2007, the Constitutional Court decided "The Romanian President's refusal to name a member of Government at the proposal of Prime Minister started a jurisdictional conflict of a constitutional nature. [...] The Romanian President has no right to veto, but he can ask the Prime Minister to renounce his proposal, if he observes that the proposed person does not meet the legal conditions required to be a member of Government". The same day, Cioroianu assumed the position of Minister of Foreign Affairs.

On 1 April 2007, Tăriceanu dismissed the ministers of the pro-Băsescu Democratic Party (PD) and formed a minority government with the Democratic Alliance of Hungarians in Romania (UDMR); Thus, the second Tăriceanu cabinet was approved by the Parliament on 3 April, with the support of the Social Democratic Party (PSD).

Popescu-Tăriceanu's government survived a no-confidence vote on 3 October 2007, following a motion brought by the Social Democratic Party (PSD). Although 220 members of parliament voted in favor of the motion and only 152 voted against it, the motion fell short of the necessary 232 votes.

Late political career
On 26 February 2014, Tăriceanu left PNL due to their intention to leave the Social Liberal Union (USL) and the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe (ALDE) to join the European People's Party (EPP). One day later, he announced that he would launch a new political party, the Liberal Reformist Party (PLR). The party's first congress was held on 1–2 August 2014. Popescu-Tăriceanu was elected president of the new party.

On 4 March, PNL leader Crin Antonescu stepped down his position as President of the Senate. On 10 March, Popescu-Tăriceanu was elected as the new President of the Senate, with the votes of the Social Democratic Party (PSD) and serving as independent senator.

In late July 2014, Popescu-Tăriceanu launched his candidacy for the 2014 presidential elections. Due to problems with registering his new political party, he ran as independent. Tăriceanu placed third in the election's first round, with 5.36%, behind Klaus Iohannis and Victor Ponta. Later, he announced that he would support Ponta in the second round of the elections. However, in the run-off, Ponta was defeated by Iohannis by a 54.5%-45.5% margin.

In July 2015, PLR announced its merger with the Conservative Party (PC), to form a new party, Alliance of Liberals and Democrats (ALDE), Tăriceanu becoming its co-president.

In 2017, Tăriceanu, claimed that he was a staunch monarchist and "Constitutional monarchy has the advantage of placing the monarch over political games, which is not our case: the president, instead of being an arbitrator, prefers to be a player".

Controversies
Tăriceanu has been accused by President Băsescu of interfering with justice in Dinu Patriciu's benefit.

On 24 January 2006, Monica Macovei, then Minister of Justice, made public a meeting with Tăriceanu which took place 7 months before (in June 2005), and to which Tăriceanu invited Dinu Patriciu. Patriciu complained to Macovei about alleged procedural problems regarding his case. Macovei accused Tăriceanu of interfering with justice. On 20 February 2006 Tăriceanu declared on TVR1:" I recognise my fault. I didn't act correctly. But I didn't influence justice." "Îmi recunosc vina. Nu am procedat corect. Dar nu am influenţat justiţia"

Elena Udrea recalled that, while she was Presidential Counsellor, she saw a note written by Tăriceanu. In a few days President Băsescu found the note and made it public, saying that "The Prime Minister suggested to me a partnership, but, unfortunately, with our oligarchies" "Domnul prim-ministru imi propunea un parteneriat, dar, din pacate, cu oligarhiile noastre". The note was about a complaint from Petromidia about the 27 May procedure problems:

"Dear Traian, 1. I send you annexed a document released by Petromidia, regarding the ongoing investigations. 2. If you have the opportunity to speak at the Prosecuting Magistracy about the subject?"

In May 2007, Patriciu won a lawsuit against the Romanian Intelligence Service (SRI), which illegally tapped his phones for two years. He received from SRI 50,000 RON as moral prejudice.

Presidential elections
Notes:

1 His party, PLR, did not manage to register in time for the elections, therefore he was forced to file his candidacy as an independent.

title: Călin Popescu-Tăriceanu


text:
Talk:Euphrates

political tensions? that's something new in the ME
the euphrates river is the source of political tension, as turkey, Syria, and Iraq all compete for the use of its waters for irrigation and the generation of hydroelectric power
 * There is a subsection touching on these issues. --Wetman 23:47, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * An anon blanked this talk and replaced with a comment (Gareth Hughes 23:19, 9 Feb 2005 (UTC)):
 * the euphrates river is 1739 miles long and 2799kilometers long when it is combined with the tigris river, it becomes shatt al arab — 24.41.63.108.
 * In the anon's defense, the title's a little pejorative and there's no point being made as far as I can tell. The first poster copied text from the article to mock it, the second mentioned the article discusses the text just pulled from the article. Is there a policy we should never blank such useless "points?" -LlywelynII (talk) 19:50, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Inconsistency re: Lake Van
The Lake Van article says that the lake is saline with no outlet, but Euphrates says that Lake Van is one of the sources of the river. They can't both be right. Anyone have any clarification here? Gwimpey 22:00, August 2, 2005 (UTC)
 * OK, I did a little more research and found out that, in fact, Lake Van is not a source of the Euphrates; see, for instance.Gwimpey 22:15, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

I was troubled by this inconsistency as well. The "lake" that the Murat Su and Kara Su flow into is the Kerban Dam reservoir. See Murat_River and Karasu_(Euphrates). This can also be seen on a map. I suggest that the article needs to be changed .Jherbold (talk) 17:19, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
 * I found a reference to support the Murat and Kara flowing into Lake Keban Dam and made that change. I think this is resolved. Jherbold (talk) 18:11, 18 November 2011 (UTC)

Malayo-Polynesian
What is the relevance of mentioning Malayo-Polynesian? Isn't it rather far fetched to suggest an etymology without a source based on Malayo-Polynesian? And why is Pangasinan taken as an example? Meursault2004 00:01, 30 April 2006 (UTC)

 * The Sumerian names for the Tigris and Euphrates appear to have a word correspondence in sound and meaning to words in Malayo-Polynesian, a language spoken by an ancient seafaring people who sailed the Pacific and Indian oceans, and even settled the island of Madagascar near Africa. In some Malayo-Polynesian languages spoken in the Philippines and Indonesia, the word siglat, which means "swift," "fast" or "rapid," appears similar to the Sumerian name Idigna and the Akkadian name Idiglat for the Tigris.  The Malayo-Polynesian word burakan,chvnc which means "wave," "wavy," or "surf" appears similar to the Sumerian name Buranun and Akkadian name Pu-rat-tu for the Euphrates. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Batobalani (talk • contribs) 03:22, 13 June 2006.

 * This is a fringe theory that violates Wikipedia's rules on no original research, verifiability and reliable sources. That is why it was removed from the article. If you want it included in the article, you will have to make sure that it meets the criteria set out in the policies and guidelines above. Also, do not remove other people's posts on talk pages. — Gareth Hughes 09:29, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

--Nature freak 18:27, 18 May 2007 (UTC)--Nature freak 18:27, 18 May 2007 (UTC)

Etymology needs a major cleanup
The name derivation section right now looks completely crazy to anyone who knows anything about etymology or the Iranian languages. Kurdish and Old Persian are both Iranian languages -- Kurdish is Northwest Iranian while Old Persian is Southwest Iranian.

It is certainly possible that the origin of the word "Euphrates" is from one of the Iranian languages, but you're never going to find out which one by using their modern analogues! It would be like trying to figure out whether a given river in Germany was inhabited by Anglo-Saxons or some other Germanic people by comparing modern English to modern German.

Some referenced arguments for an etymology in the Iranian languages are really needed here. - Saforrest 20:14, 21 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree that the etymology section is confusing and suspect, also from the Greek perspective. My Greek is pretty rusty, but it seems to me that -- looking at the clear patterns for the name of the river being something along the lines of PRT or FRT from very early on -- the Greek name "Euphrates" is some combination of Gk. eu ("well, good") plus the earlier non-Greek name (prt), with a Greek masculine ending -es.  But the derivation of -phrat from roos, as suggested in the text that's there now, makes no sense -- where does the [ph] come from?  If anything, -phrat- suggests a possible folk etymology having to do with kinship (Greek phratre, meaning tribe) -- in other words, to Greeks of the period, it's possible that the name "Euphrates" evoked a meaning along the lines of "good tribe".  But that folk meaning is obviously irrelevant to the actual origins of the PRT portion of the name, which clearly predate the Greek version of the name.  Perhaps someone with a better background in the area and relevant languages could clear this up? -CranstonShenir (talk) 03:43, 18 December 2007 (UTC)CranstonShenir
 * The original river name is Old Persian bharantā/bharātā 'carrying, bringing, feeding' (Skt. bharati '(he) carries, feeds', Latvian baruot/barāt 'to feed'). Roberts7 21:01, 6 October 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Roberts7 (talk • contribs)
 * Er, close. It's from Old Persian, but not Persian so old it's become Sanskrit or proto-IE. There's a lot of junk etymologies, so it's a pain to find a scholarly cite. Someone please do. In any case, don't just blank the etymology section, particularly the Sumerian and Akkadian names, which should be somewhere on the page. -LlywelynII (talk) 19:57, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Basin countries
What are the criteria to include Jordan within the basin countries? Is there any geological or map's contour standard for this? I think it is quite far and not related neither in environment nor the elevation, as a valley! Ralhazzaa 13:33, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Consistency
Article currently reads in part ''The Khabur and the Balikh River join the Euphrates in eastern Syria... Both rivers have their origins in Turkey. Downstream, through its whole length, the Euphrates receives no further water flow.''

Does that mean that neither the Khabur River nor the Balikh River contribute anything? Surely not... while the Khabur doesn't flow for much of the year, it does flow sometimes, and the Balikh is a major watercourse, according to their respective articles. I think I can see what it's trying to say, but it's not correct as is, and a lot more complicated than it might seem. Andrewa 19:52, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

Islamic Prophesies
The Euphrates dries up to reveal gold/riches. Does this refer to oil reserves? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.239.210.244 (talk) 21:05, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
 * No Infobox? Why?--Abhishek Jacob (talk) 19:02, 19 July 2008 (UTC)

Euphrates in Islamic prophecy
■Soon the river Euphrates will disclose the treasure [the mountain] of gold. So, whoever will be present at that time should not take anything of it. — Sahih Bukhari.

■The Prophet Muhammad said: "The Hour will not come to pass before the river Euphrates dries up to unveil the mountain of gold, for which people will fight. Ninety-nine out of one hundred will die [in the fighting], and every man among them will say: 'Perhaps I may be the only one to remain alive'." — Sahih Bukhari, Sahih Muslim.

■The Prophet Muhammad said: "The Euphrates reveals the treasures within itself. Whoever sees it should not take anything from it". — Al-Muttaqi al-Hindi, Al-Burhan fi `Alamat al-Mahdi Akhir az-Zaman, p. 28.

■It [the Euphrates] will uncover a mountain of gold [under it]. — Sunan Abi Da'ud. (QadeemMusalman (talk) 13:05, 24 May 2010 (UTC))

wheres tha euphrates river??
??? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.72.0.235 (talk) 19:55, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Here. -LlywelynII (talk) 19:47, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

Religion and mythology
Some important information was lost in 2010 deletions. Similar deletions were made in the Tigris article (on the grounds that it was "mostly unsourced and irrelevant for actual river"). Wikipedia contains many natural physical features, and in many cases, with associated religious, legendary or mythological status. This is an encyclopaedia, not a geographers' reference book. The Lesser Merlin (talk) 11:56, 30 March 2011 (UTC)
 * That might have been me. I agree that something could be said on the matter. However, I don't think it should be more than 1 or 2 sentences, since it is simply not an important issue compared to, say, the river's geography or how it is used today. I certainly don't think that every Bible book in which it occurs should be quoted. At most, their names can be mentioned and even that, I think, might be already too much. However, good sources need to be found to support this. So, yes, something could be said about religion, but the paragraph as it was should be drastically shortened, in my opinion. And it should be supported by wp:rs. --Zoeperkoe (talk) 13:35, 30 March 2011 (UTC)

Adding Kurdish name
The Euphrates flows through the heart of Kurdistan and plays a central role as a symbol of Kurdish national identity. It's incredible that it hasn't been included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ZanLJackson (talk • contribs) 13:35, 22 May 2011 (UTC)

Mala River
= Euphrates! You can see this on internet: The equation of the Mala River with the Euphrates became evident only a few years later with the discovery of the Hattusili I bilingual (Otten 1958: 83, n. 28). Böri (talk) 13:45, 4 April 2012 (UTC)

On discharge
About two weeks back I made edits to the geobox regarding the river's discharge, which were contested and removed. However, I believe the convention for river infoboxes is to have the discharge figures reflect the longest time period of record, or as close to the natural discharge of the river as possible. The existing information in this article says that according to "early and mid 20th century figures" the "natural" discharge of the river is estimated at 36 km3 at Hīt, and that the average discharge "after 1990" is 11.2 km3/year. I assume that said "early and mid 20th century figures", which sounds like something between 1900-1970, reflects a longer record of river flows than "after 1990". Shann º n  22:31, 30 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I did not know those were the requirements for the infobox (although I don't think it's a good convention; it should reflect current discharge and historic figures should be mentioned in the text as part of the history of the development of the river). Feel free to revert again.--Zoeperkoe (talk) 13:53, 1 July 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110720184608/http://zunia.org/uploads/media/knowledge/Geopolicity%20-%20Managing%20the%20Tigris%20and%20Euphrates%20Watershed%20-%20The%20Challenge%20Facing%20Iraq1280855782.pdf to http://zunia.org/uploads/media/knowledge/Geopolicity%20-%20Managing%20the%20Tigris%20and%20Euphrates%20Watershed%20-%20The%20Challenge%20Facing%20Iraq1280855782.pdf
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20050209180004/http://www.eawag.ch/research_e/apec/Scripts/GAP07feb01.pdf to http://www.eawag.ch/research_e/apec/Scripts/GAP07feb01.pdf

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title: Talk:Euphrates


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Supreme Dalek

from VfD:

Reason I recommended this article for VfD: Poorly written fancruft, probably vanity for someone's un-notable online fantasy story. —ExplorerCDT 22:12, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete —ExplorerCDT 22:12, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep This could use some cleanup, but Dr. Who trivia certaintly belongs here. Samboy 22:17, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) Merge in to Dalek Ranks Samboy 00:01, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. VfD is not cleanup and this article clearly belongs.  [[User:GRider|GRider\talk]] 23:39, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. One person's fancruft is another person's scholarship. Dr Zen 01:02, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Merge into Dalek or List of Daleky topics or something. --fvw *  01:58, 2004 Dec 15 (UTC)
 * Delete: One big Dalek homeworld. No break outs of minor details of a fiction, please.  Geogre 02:00, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Can I quote you on that when I list minor details of Gulliver's Travels on VfD? Dr Zen 02:06, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Nominate one, if you can find it, and let's see what the community thinks. To my knowledge, there are no break outs of minor elements from GT.  Geogre 04:53, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Minor is in the eye of the beholder. As it happens, I'm all for articles on minor details from Gulliver and won't be listing anything, not even Glumdalclitch, who is, as far as minor goes, fairly minor.Dr Zen 06:01, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Feel free, if you wish. However, let's see how many of these are blue:  Flimnap, Blefuscu, Balinbari, Munodi, Laputa, Houhouyhynm, Sorel mare, Yahoo with the character, Brobdingnag.  Ok.  Now, some of those are nations in GT.  Now, given the fact that GT has had 270 years of being read and has never faded from the list of books that every literate person should read, let's compare it to the level of detail present for Dr. Who, Dragonball Z and whatever that Gundarm thing is, not to mention Neopets.  To get to the level of break out involved, one would not be writing about Little Endian, but Jester in the court of Brobdingnag and Sorcerer's mirror in Laputa.  I.e. a Pikachu article is one thing, but one for every "gym" in a fictive world that is commercially produced, where there is a commercial interest in making sure that there are always new ones?  These are articles about small details from a few episodes, comparing them to any stable work of fiction, one that is accessible to any, as opposed to having aired on television and requiring the purchase of special video tapes, etc., is absurd.  Geogre 14:00, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I'd like to see more of those links be blue, actually. Breakouts of information are a good thing, and a fine goal for Wikipedia.  The argument about Doctor Who not counting because video tapes are special and difficult to access isn't particularly convincing. Factitious 17:13, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * Wait a minute. We have articles on every Pokemon, and every different kind of dalek, but no article on Houhouyhynm? That's outrageous. Really. If I were a first time user and someone pointed that out to me I'd have a very low opinion of Wikipedia indeed. -R. fiend 19:12, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * My mistake (or Geogre's mistake really). Misspelled it, it's Houyhnhnm and it has a pitifully small stub (one that would never stay so short if it had been about Sailor Moon). Now is Houhouyhynm a common enough misspelling to make a redirect? -R. fiend 19:17, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * The mistake was mine, I'm sure. I used to never mispell that.  I can't even think, though, of what would be an adequate item from GT that could compare to a single Neopet, Pokemon, Digimon, etc.  Do we have an article on Hodge, Samuel Johnson's cat?  Do we have one on the cat of Thomas Gray that drowned trying to eat a goldfish?  Further, the problem with breakouts is that you have to already know it to find it!  Let's imagine an article on Hodge.  Now, if you know that's Johnson's cat, you find it and find out that...it's Johnson's cat, and you know it because there are two lines to refer to it, so the article would repeat those two lines.  Is anyone else ever going to know to search for Hodge?  No.  So what does the article do?  It allows the encyclpedic equivalent of "Hey, 'member when Butters turned int Dr. Chaos?  That was so cool!"  Geogre 00:27, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Remember when Johnson told the joke about the gentleman who shot cats? That was so cool! Gdr 00:55, 2004 Dec 16 (UTC) (P.S. You know that we do have an article on Hodge the Cat, right?)
 * Um, no, we don't. We do have an excerpt from Life of Johnson under that title, but calling it an "article" would be just too much of a stretch. another for VfD or cleanup or transwiki... -R. fiend 01:24, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Ugh! We have a Hodge the Cat?  What a world.  Its contents make the point I was striving for, too.  You have to know everything in the article to search for the article.  (I'm an "18th century I" person, and it used to be a joke that orals could throw a question at you like "What was Johnson's cat's name."  As a joke we would remind each other that Johnson's cat was Hodge and Pope's dog(s) was Bounce.)  Geogre 04:44, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * The problem is, Geogre, that we cannot put our fingers on what level of granularity is too much. For some, Orchard Road is too much, but Twombly, Maine is untouchable. For others, there is not an elf in LotR that is not worth mention. For yet others, Dr Johnson's cat is notable, but the high school they learned about it in isn't. Let's not even begin to think about the recording career of Ashlee Simpson, which is covered at almost novella length. It's all rather arbitrary. I know that Anthony DiPierro believes we should have articles on every person living who is verifiable (I hope I'm not misquoting him) and most things in fiction, I think, so long as they are "real". His criteria are at least definitive. I understand and appreciate, although I don't share, your belief that there should be a standard of wider applicability for articles, but as you note this does tend to bias the encyclopaedia towards those things that have been around a long time (whatever level of notice they have garnered). I'm not suggesting that such a bias is a good or a bad thing, but I do wonder whether, given the space we have and the nature of the project, some granularity might not be considered a "good thing".Dr Zen 07:09, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Merge and redirect into Dalek types or Doctor Who villains or soemthing. 132.205.15.43 03:29, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: DCEdwards1966 04:23, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Esoteric fancruft.  Indrian 06:38, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. More F.E.C.E.S. Merge some to daleks if someone wants to. Comparison to Gulliver's Travels is ridiculous. It's not as if Lilliput has spawned an English word meaning "small" or any such nonsense. That would be just plain crazy. -R. fiend 06:53, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. I don't buy the 'fancruft' argument. [[User:Xezbeth| Xezbeth ]] 08:19, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Merge or exterminate. Susvolans (pigs can fly) 15:10, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * There is already an article about this character, under the name Dalek Supreme. Merge and redirect to it, not to Dalek.  How is it possible that so many people have weighed in on this topic already without noticing the obvious duplication of information? Factitious 17:13, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * Merge to Dalek. -- Antaeus Feldspar 21:06, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * delete Nothing here that couldn't be said in Dalek. --[[User:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway|Talk]] 04:15, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Dalek Ranks. I have completed the merge.  The Steve  07:55, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)
 * The article Dalek Ranks needs a rename to Dalek ranks 132.205.45.148 15:32, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete and merge Dalek Ranks with Dalek. DreamGuy 22:03, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion


text:
Talk:Branched surface

An ok start, but there are still a lot of problems with this page. First, the description of branched surface is wrong. The given description is that of a simple branched surface. In general you need to allow immersed curves to be branch locii. Next, no mention is made of smoothness at the branching points, or for train tracks, at the switches. The branches should be C^1 fitting together in a certain way at the switches. Also, train tracks usually, in most contexts, have conditions on their complementary domains. In other words, "train track" does not just refer to the graph, but a certain kind of embedding into a surface. On tori, one allows digon regions, but on higher genus surfaces, one doesn't, for example. The comment that weights for train tracks are usually natural numbers is strange. They usually aren't natural numbers, since train tracks are used most heavily with laminations. Finally, it is wrong to say a train track or branched surface carries a foliation since a foliation fills up the whole manifold. Such branched thing carry laminations. --C S 22:12, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)

 * Whew! Okay. It needs work. I didn't include a bunch of stuff ($$C^1$$ at the branch points, no digons) either because I forgot to (e.g., no digons) or because I didn't bother (e.g., smoothness). But I did strive for accuracy in what was included, so I apologize for my inaccuracies. perhaps you can help polish the article. As to the natural-number thing, I didn't say they're "usually" natural numbers, but that they're "often but not always" natural numbers. My intent was to emphasize the "not always", but I guess that didn't come across well. (I'm changing that.) And as to carrying a foliation, I'm not sure you're right: Consider the foln of R^3 by vertical planes. Would one vertical plane (a branched surface) not carry the foln? (I'm honestly not sure.)  —msh210 22:49, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * That's why it's important to at some point, include an actual precise definition of "carry". (Of course, it's easier to criticize than fix the problem :-) but now that I have more time I will pitch in; I've been very busy the last month or so). The precise definition of carry is to take a regular neighborhood of the branched surface that looks locally like the second picture on Oertel's webpage.  This has a foliation by vertical segments.  A surface is carried by the branched surface if it is contained in a neighborhood of this type and is transverse to every vertical segment (it may avoid some of them).  If it also intersects every such segment, the branched surface fully carries the surface.  The definition for train tracks carrying curves is similar.  You make each branch a long rectangle (with vertical segments transverse to the direction of the branch) and at the switches, instead of a cusp, you have a rectangular corner (hard to describe, but if you look on Google for fat train track or train track neighborhood, you may find some pictures...).  So to answer your question, no, the one plane would not carry the foliation.  The idea is that a branched surface/train track carries something if it runs "close" along the branched surface/train track.  That is what is meant by a lamination looking like a train track/branched surface to a myopic person.  --C S 23:31, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)

To see a nice local picture of a branched surface, see Oertel's webpage. Maybe we can use his pictures. --C S 22:20, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)

 * Or just re-draw the same thing. It's a standard enough picture that I don't think it'd be a copyright issue. (Ianal.)   —msh210 22:49, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Hehe; yes, it's definitely not a copyright issue! I was just saying if we were lazy, we could get permission to use his graphics.  To describe "carry" we will definitely need a picture like Oertel's second one.  Anyway, what are you using to draw your pictures?  I recommend using Adobe Illustrator; the pictures come out pretty crisp with it.  --C S 23:31, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)

Weights
The weights cannot be negative! I've added that to the article, but now, unfortunately, the picture of a weighted train track is wrong. The ActiveDiscuss tag is a good idea; at least nobody will write their dissertation using this article while we get it into shape :-) --C S 23:36, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)

Branched manifold?
I'm not sure if there is such a general concept that has a precise, standard definition. As I pointed out above, a branched surface isn't merely a trivial extension of a train track: its branch locii can be immersed circles with double points. I'm familiar with train tracks and branch surfaces from 3-manifold theory, but I don't know about higher dimensions. Even these two cases make clear that the general definition for higher definitions would be more complicated. I'm not sure what such a definition would be, or if it's even useful. --C S 23:50, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)

train track is singular
I just noticed that the article is written in a way (especially with the comment on the redirect from 'train track') that suggests that a 'train track' does not exist, and is always referred to in the plural form 'train tracks'. This is incorrect. When talking about one train track, well, it's just 'track' not 'tracks'. That is how the math terminology is. One only says 'train tracks' when refer to them in the plural. I've changed the article accordingly. This may be a more important comment if train track gets its own page. --C S 09:31, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Branched surface