text:
Talk:Meles Zenawi

Proposed Link
Hi, I'm working with The Pulitzer Center, a non-profit journalism agency geared towards providing audience to underrepresented news stories. I'd like to link this page to a related articles on the Pulitzer site; http://www.pulitzercenter.org/showproject.cfm?id=29 concerning US and Ethiopian relations, Please let me know if I can post these links. Many thanks in advance. Blendus 20:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Needs Attention/POV
I have added the templates for "Needs Attention" and "Neutral Point of View." Gyrofrog 18:48, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Removed POV content (which bordered on vandalism). Thus I'm removing the "Needs Attention" and "Neutral Point of View" templates.  Also added link to EPRDF article. Gyrofrog 00:36, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Would the prime misnister argue his father Negadras Zenawi was once involved as an informant to the enemy(england colonialist)and he got crowened by the U.K because of this and his faher had to flee to Eretrea because Tigrian women refused to marry him because of this cercumstance Meles is half Eritrean and half Ethiopian and that is whay he is wabbling when it comes about the future of those two countries?

Borderline vandalism
I have reverted this article, thus removing the edit submitted by 149.99.45.38 at 00:02, 25 Jan 2005. Note that this is very similar to the edit submitted by 192.30.202.9 at 23:09, 14 Jan 2005, so it's happened before and I'm afraid it will probably happen again. (See my edit under "Needs Attention/POV.")

I am giving this person (or persons) the benefit of the doubt by not considering this to be outright vandalism, since it actually does pertain to the subject of the article. (If anyone thinks I am being overly generous in this regard, please let me know.) I was actually ambivalent about deleting the entire edit, because it might not actually be vandalism.

However I am not so tolerant or generous that I would bother cleaning up the inflammatory epithets, POV, and multiple errors of grammar and spelling just to "balance" the article's POV. If the person(s) who submitted this edit would get a username, refrain from using descriptions such as "Uncle Tom," and engage the other users here at the discussion page, than I might feel differently. Gyrofrog 19:32, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * Once again, I have reverted 149.99.45.38's vandalism. I have reported this user at WP:VIP. Gyrofrog 00:07, 28 Jan 2005 (UTC)

'''Some people are deleting big portions of the article for no reason. You guys,who are"reverting", are very dedicated. lol The article might need to be locked for vandalism. who agrees?'''

Oddity
Asking to see if I'm the only one, but when viewing this discussion page, the "article" tab at the top says "progpaganda" and when viewing the article it says "trash". siafu 05:35, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't see it. I even tried changing different display skins. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 06:03, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Odd -Joseph E. Stiglitz seem to think he is a great man
I have a feeling the person messing up with this article is from Ethiopia. I can't even believe someone would raise such a childish topic that the guy is not circumcised. I really hated this kind of thinking, really backward and i am not trying to be an elitist here. I am from Kenya, and let me tell you, most of my fellow Kenya's are completely brain dead. Basically, there are prepared to vote in a murderer, if the only other option is circumcised man. I have never fugured that out

In his book Globalization and its discontent, page 27 Stiglitz says the guy is trained as a doctor, but have also put a lot of hours to formally learn economics. For those who are asking what he intends to do for the poor, look elsewhere please. I think that question should be directed to IMF. According to Stiglitz, and i quote "Meles showed that, with the right policies in place, even a poor African countries could experience sustained growth. After years of war and rebuilding, international assistance was beginning to return to the country. But Meles was having problems with IMF" end of quote.

See IMF suspended its programs in Ethiopea because of actions that they guy took to mitigate poverty. For example, he paid up a loan to an American bank early. His reasoning was, since the interest the government was earning from reserve was less than the interest the govenment was paying for the loan, why not use the government reserve to pay up the US bank loan immediately. Very sound financial decision. Believe it or not, this was one of the reason to can the Enhanced structural Adjustment facilities program. This is not in Stiglitz book, but my guess is, IMF was not happy because when the loan was cleared asap, the US bank lost a chance to earn a comfortable interest

This book is full incidents like this. Brother, before you go nailing this guy, look for "Globalization and its discontent" and you will find yourself looking at the world in a completely different perspective. The world is more complicated than it seem on first look. I was like you sometimes back.

 * Thanks for your comments, interesting stuff. Well, unfortunately, it seems that the perpetrator would rather post his comments directly in the article rather than here on the Talk page (well, I take that back, he did post one comment further up the page, but not very useful, certainly doesn't justify what he put in the article).  I myself am not a big fan of Meles, but I would never write that sort of comment about anyone (at least not in Wikipedia).  FWIW the same person was also messing up the Ogaden article (well, someone with the same IP address, anyway). -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 23:23, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

POV
The current version of the article contains the line "Mr. Zenawi true autocratic leadership style - long known to Ethiopians - is being revealed to the rest of the world." This is biased unsourced commentary and I would appreciate it if someone would find a NPOV rewording. - BanyanTree 21:27, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

 * I've removed the line; there are other assertions in the article that cite references and the reader should be able to draw his or her own conclusions. I'm still thinking about the remainder of the paragraph. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 21:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and removed that as well. I reverted to this version following some vandalism earlier today. The same editor of the version to which I reverted had gone on to make another edit that could be considered vandalism . Taken together I'm not sure any of these edits were made in god faith, and I should have reverted to an earlier revision. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:45, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Hi Gyrofrog, Thanks for your edits. That certainly removes the "Zenawi is a ravening power hungry dictator" POV that I was talking about, but now this version veers towards apologism with its "aw shucks, he's a good man doing a hard job" ending.  I suppose that this version is better than the other, but hopefully it'll balance out over time.  Cheers, BanyanTree 21:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes, sorry about that, but I didn't want to leave it as it was. FWIW, while it was probably inteneded to balance out the tone of the preceding paragraphs, the "pro-Meles" paragraph does not cite any references. Rather than whacking the paragraph, though, I think the entire article could use a rewrite (which I don't have time for just now). In the meantime I'll just watch for additional PoV edits. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 22:32, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

This is about tag cleanup. As all of the tags are more than a year old, there is no current discussion relating to them, and there is a great deal of editing done since the tags were placed, or in some cases it's clear there is a consensus, they will be removed. This is not a judgement of content. If there is cause to re-tag, then that of course may be done, with the necessary posting of a discussion as to why, and what improvements could be made. Better yet, edit the article yourself with the improvements in place. This is only an effort to clean out old tags, and permit them to be updated with current issues if warranted.Jjdon (talk) 23:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

Should'nt there be a little list of pm at the bottom?
Should'nt there be a little list of pm at the bottom? —the preceding comment is by 69.116.155.49 - 22:16, 25 February 2006: Please sign your posts!

 * Do you mean a list of Prime Ministers? I think that would be quite a short list; has anyone else actually served under that title? -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 22:52, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

this entire article
Its clear to see that this entire article was created by and is maintained by Herr Zenawi's internet soldiers. There is a vast gap in knowledge about the prime minister. His biography starts not with his birth but with his completion of courses at the open university. the rest of the article is filled with talking points directly from the EPRDF. This article is heavily biased in favor of the prime minister. There is no mention except in the criticism area about the genocide of the Anauk community in 2003, the violence of the 2005 elections, the mass arrests and torture of opponents during and after the 2005 election and the intimidation and discrepancies of the 2010 election. Something has to be done to bring this article up to snuff with the truth out there available on the internet.

anuak
please explain in detail

Anuak Genocide?
In the above article on Meles Zenawi, there is a section entitled Anuak genocide which seems to be dealing with the civil unrest and massacre which took place in the Gambella region of Ethiopia in the month of December 2003. My question is this: who declared it a genocide? What is the writer's reference in stating what happened was a genocide?

An act or disturbance, according to the 1948 genocide convention, has to fulfill a set of strict criteria to be labeled a genocide. Labeling an act a genocide requires a deliberate and thorough investigation as it invariably entails an intervention by the U.N and all signatories to the Convention. While the events of December, 2003( Gambella) are sufficiently well documented and known to be a civil disturbance in which many Anuaks died, they have not been labeled a genocide by any authority or agency. Secondly, I am still wondering what this has to do in Meles Zenawi's biographical article. The December,2003 civil disturbance in Gambella were NOT instigated by Meles Zenawi.It can be mentioned it happened on his watch, but in its present form in the Meles article, is very misleading. This is an issue, I believe, which should have its own expanded entry elsewhere- of course- with a referencing and documentation up to Wikipedia's standards. --Ironinmohscale 12:06, Dec.15,2006

 * I am going ahead and changing the title "Anuak genocide" which is historically inaccurate and misleading to the "Gambella incident" which probably is nondescript until we get a better title.The latter may be neutral but does not suggest any historical inaccuracies. --Ironinmohscale 12:21, December, 2006

 * In fact I am deleting the section altogether as theres little that is relevant to Meles in any form.--Ironinmohscale 12:35, December, 2006
 * The section is important. To delete it would be POV (which the article already is, anyway). Amnesty international is who called it genocide, btw. I am restoring the section. — ዮም  |  (Yom)  |  Talk  • contribs • Ethiopia 20:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

I second that motion
. And Yob, thanks for helping me. Meles is the only pm,so there is no need for a list

Eritrea
Since the Eritrea paragraph seems to be presenting Eritrea as the sole perpetrator in the problems that Ethiopia and Eritrea have had since Eritrean independence, I think it should be mentioned that Meles Zenawi's regime expelled at least 3,000 and according to Amnesty International estimates 50,000 Eritrean citizens of Ethiopia during the Eritrean-Ethiopian war due to their heritage. "CBC News"

Badme is Eritrean territory and not Ethiopian according to an UN boundary commission. Thus I shall remove anything stating the contrary. --82.156.100.120 14:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

 * It would be far more productive if you simply discussed why you think the contrary is wrong. If you announce to one & all that you will revert edits you disagree with, you will find yourself in the end banned from editting Wikipedia. There is nothing wrong with being enthusiastic over what you believe, only in how you express that enthusiasm. Please try again. -- llywrch 01:26, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I have only edited factual errors. I have not edited anything in this article, because of my personal beliefs or thoughts. I am concerned about the neutrality of this article, but I have written about that on the discussion page. So, exactly what should I try again? --82.156.100.120 14:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't know who has edited it now, but the Eritrea paragraph is a mess now. Someone should revise it.82.156.100.120 21:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

ARTICLE != facts as far as the facts go eritrea ocupied bademe as a reaction of ethiopia currencyreform and eritrea was part of ethiopia for milenia the UN says badme is eritrean territory based on maps of the Italian fascist invasion this cant be the criteria in this case eritrea gained souvereignety in peace with ethiopia and thus the border are only defined on that act of seperation, not on what mousoulinin said to be eritrea.... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.171.131.86 (talk) 13:19, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Question
In line three of the third paragraph in the Interim to PM section of this article it calls the police force illiterate. While I don't know for sure if they are or not, it's not relevant in the context it's used in. Just wanted to point that out. Thanks.--Ryan 15:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

Edit war discuss here
Whats up with the edit war. Also see Footnotes for the format needed for footnotes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Halaqah (talk • contribs) 09:26, 4 January 2007 (UTC).

Is this propaganda?
Is this propaganda or is there any founding to it?

"Also according to RAND corporation, several Al-Qaeda fugitives had "found sanctuary in Somalia" and exploited the lack of government. There were also several Al-Qaeda operatives identified in southern Somalia. Despite Western interest to solve the problems in Somalia, RAND claims that world powers have failed to practiced their will, particularly in financing the peacekeepings and humanitarian assistance. In addition other analysts have identified documents and Al-Qaeda letters to increase their involvement in Somalia. " Somnabot 15:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Well, it's been widely alleged that al-Qaeda members are in Somalia, but exactly what this means is not clear. And I doubt that RAND would explicitly state unequivocally that "world powers have failed to practiced their will, particularly in financing the peacekeepings and humanitarian assistance". There's alot in this article that needs pruning out or reworking; at the moment, this reads more like an official biography, rather than a useful Wikipedia article. -- llywrch 20:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

As we have seen before Prime Minster Meles killed a lot of people in Somalia or he gave the order to kill innocent Somali Citizens, I am not defending Alshabab, beacuse as Msulim I belive that they are not fighting for religion and protecting Islam, but Meles sent troops to Somalia who are still operating inside Somalia and killing people including women and children. I would have to say, Mr. Meles that is not the solution. If youa are feeling that Islmists will spread to Ethiopia, It will be fueling the situation if you sent your tigray youth to Kill Somali Children — Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.55.101.174 (talk) 07:45, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

Political Prisoners
I was wondering whether or not someone should add the part where the opposition members of the government were charged with multiple crimes, and sentenced to life in prison. This present article presents Meles as a saint, while in fact he is basically another African dictator who crushes dissent and any opposition to his government. -- User talk:yardalhirji 14:49, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

 * You should read Criticism & scandals section if you enjoy making Meles look like "another african dictator" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.27.125 (talk) 15:15, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 23:45, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Far too long
While some discussion of his policies is inevitable, this is supposed to be an account of Zenawi's life, not an exhaustive listing of his actions while in office. I suggest serious cuts, plus toning down of POV (which is present) and grammar fixes. Biruitorul 21:41, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

 * I agree. The Teaching history subsection, in particular, seems better suited for History of Ethiopia (though not as written). Frankly it seems like the text was shoehorned in to make a point. The single citation doesn't corroborate the sentence to which it is attached, though it does back up the previous sentence. If it can be better attributed, and the PoV toned down, then it really belongs in another article - the TPLF is mentioned but there's nothing specifically about Meles. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 13:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Likewise, school expansion as well as the aformentioned section might be better suited for Education in Ethiopia than this article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 16:03, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

 * Gyrofrog, you told me to move my discussion here from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Gyrofrog#Question_2 Anyway, in my other explanation, i think i fully described the reason to you why it is one of the most important aspect of his party's identity. (Let me know if you still don't understand why it is important) Anyhow if there are any references that disprove that quote, you should bring it. Though i doubt one would easily find online info for African affairs, if someone finds additional reference, that someone can add it anytime. Until then, that important info shouldn't be removed. If you want, i think you should and you can label it "[dubious – discuss]". But the quote is too important to leave out.  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.27.125 (talk) 13:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

 * The quote is from a blog, which is not a reliable source. If you can't find an exact quotation then you should not include the quote. I don't see the use in tagging a quotation with (or similar) when we've already established that we don't have a reliable source for the quote. As for the section itself, if the information is specifically pertinent to Meles Zenawi then it needs to be rewritten. As it currently reads, though, it is out-of-place in this article. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 13:59, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
 * P.S. As the person adding the quote, the burden of verification is on you. You don't have to take my word for it; I see that another editor has already reverted your edit. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:21, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

NPOV
Emotions run way too high among editors who have contributed to this article. Someone without ties to the region should rewrite the many NPOV-violating sections. --NEMT (talk) 00:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)

What the heck is going on? This is not a useful article!
I am appalled by the condition that this article is in. It is clear to me that somebody or some people with a confusing combination of moony-eyed Zenawi-worship and poorly informed English grammar has or have hijacked what ought to be an unbiased, fluid, easy-to-read English-language article on the man who runs Ethiopia. I want whoever is putting these biased edits in to know that I respect their country and understand their desire to express their point of view, but that Wikipedia is not a soapbox and they are not doing a service to it by muddling foreigners' appraisal of their current leader.

His name
Is "Meles" his surname, or is it "Zenawi"? I'm not familiar with Ethiopian names. Josh (talk) 03:04, 21 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Actually, he doesn't have a surname, per se: see WP:ETHM. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 19:33, 21 October 2008 (UTC)

The word used to refer to people of Tigray origin.
What we Tigreans use to refer to any one from Tigray is the word TIGREAN An we say He is a Tigrean.They are Tigreans.I am writing this to show the correct spelling of the word used to call someone who is from Tigray. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 157.193.12.61 (talk) 17:45, 12 April 2009 (UTC)

Assessment
The article isn't bad, but the lead is far too short, and whole sections do not have a single reference, when generally what is sought is at least two per paragraph. Changing some of the paragraphs so that therer are fewer really short paragraphs would probably help a lot as well. John Carter (talk) 13:34, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Purported death
Apparently, rumors abound regarding the supposed death of Meles Zenawi. The government has only acknowledged that he has been ill. (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-07-16/ethiopia-says-meles-is-ill-amid-african-union-summit-absence-1-.html) Meanwhile, over the past few hours there has been a flurry of activity on this article, changing it to indicate (without sources) that Meles Zenawi has died followed by reverts to change it back. (I've noticed that the date and/or cause of supposed death changes with each series of edits.) If this keeps up then we may have to protect the page. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 03:35, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I've gone ahead and semi-protected the page for 3 days. As of this writing, the news media is reporting only that the subject has been ill. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 05:28, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * The government is scheduled to hold a press conference concerning the PM's health on Wed. July 18, at 3 PM local time (UTC+3). Perhaps then we'll have better information for updating this article. (Also recall that there were similar rumors about the health of Girma Woldegiorgis a few months ago – so much for rumors.) -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 22:04, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Supposedly Mr. Zenawi just died, according to BBC World Service Radio. I don't know how credible it is, but I think the BBC might have said "confirmed" on his death. State media reports similar things, that after weeks of illness he died. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-19328356 --173.79.243.89 (talk) 04:42, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Also Al Jazeera, AP, Yahoo, etc. It's confirmed.  Added to article. -- Activism  1234  06:07, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 17 July 2012
There was a misleading information, which appears to be a deliberate one, posted about the death of Meles Zenawi. Can the editor come out and say why the wrong news, or apologize to all affected. If it was a deliberate one, wikipedia has the responsibility to let all Ethiopians know who is behind.

74.62.115.77 (talk) 22:41, 17 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I'm not sure what you are requesting. What is it that you think is misleading? Currently, the article does not say that the Prime Minister has died, because (as of this writing) there are no credible reports that say he has died (see also: WP:V, WP:BLP).  What the news reports have said (again, as of this writing) is that the Prime Minister has been ill, and that some observers have speculated he is dead. The Wikipedia article reflects this. -- Gyrofrog  (talk) 22:58, 17 July 2012 (UTC)

Remove neutrality tag ?
As there is a nomination for posting this article at ITN, perhaps we can identify and resolve any POV issues (if they still exist) and remove the neutrality tag that seems to be here since May 2008. Chocolate Horlicks (talk) 07:52, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * As I mentioned on the related discussion at In_the_news/Candidates (at WP:ITN/C for 21 August 2012) I have removed the neutrality tag.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:11, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

This could be better in the Lead
"his government has also come under criticism including for repression of the Oromo people and for failure to capitalize on the military victory in the Eritrean–Ethiopian War." I think there is a better way to summerize this, he was not only known for oppressing Oromo people, would it not be better to summerize his oppression and the claims of human rights violation and political repression in a broader way.? I also checked an the failure to capitalize is not a notable point which is lead material, true or false no serious RS are discussing this. --Inayity (talk) 08:53, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I have modified that bit to make it clear that he was accused of human rights violations, and added a source.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:21, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Prime Minister of Ethiopia section needs expert attention
I am not sure how to categorize this issue but the tone and the entire content seems like it needs some work. Please have a look.--Inayity (talk) 10:18, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Can you give any specifics? Examples?--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:12, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Does not seem like a wikipedia tone, almost an Op Ed, "These were just the beginning of the opposition to Meles Zenawi's EPRDF party after it gained power and more strong opposition followed" thats why I asked, is it just me or does it need some work.--Inayity (talk) 13:14, 21 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Yeah I agree some bits don't sound very encyclopedic. The article may need a bit of cleaning up bit by bit.  It may just be that parts of the article were written by non-native speakers of English.--Johnsemlak (talk) 13:23, 21 August 2012 (UTC)

Splitting off this article?
This article is becoming too long to read, as it is primarily about his political career. I don't know which detail is unnecessary, even when this person is recently dead. Either splitting off portions into a new page or condensing this article is enough for general readers. However, we are discussing a former Prime Minister from Ethiopia, and it's not like Barack Obama, is it? Anyway, I could care less about this person because I have not done a trip to Ethiopia. Perhaps someone interested can help out? --George Ho (talk) 05:31, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * This PM was an extremely important world leader, not as much as Obama perhaps, but very important. -- Activism  1234  05:32, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Look at Presidency of Bill Clinton. Maybe we can propose splitting content into Premiership of Meles Zenawi, right? --George Ho (talk) 11:20, 25 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Agreed. Split off as its much too long. Obama;s page is irrelevant to this, just cause hes a US prez doesnt men anything. Zenawi's conenthat is sourced and notable should be kept.Lihaas (talk) 23:39, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Support Split.--Inayity (talk) 12:14, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Before Colonialism?
"He also said that since this was how the nationalities were before colonization, ethnicity was the language they understood best."

This unsourced quote is attributed to Zenawi. Ethiopia was never colonized. Zenawi, like most Ethiopians, was well versed in Ethiopian history. This sentence should be removed from the article.
 * Done. The section is also poorly referenced and poorly written.--Inayity (talk) 07:29, 22 August 2012 (UTC)

Illness and death
Why does the article include any info about his death and funeral, although every detail is given?Egeymi (talk) 18:51, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Feel free to add any info that you feel is left out, as long as it's properly referenced. -- Activism  1234  18:53, 22 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Funeral has not yet been scheduled, for one. ⇒   SWAT Jester    Son of the Defender  09:27, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Quotation from Bereket Simon is wrongly attributed. The source (Verhoeven on AlJazeera ) makes no reference to Bereket Simon, let alone quote him at length. Egsteve1 (talk) 09:15, 19 April 2018 (UTC)

Reactions to Zenawi's death
A lot of unsourced content was recently removed.

It's hard to imagine all of this was made up. Therefore, I moved the removed content to a subpage of mine, where editors can feel free to add references to it, and then reinsert that passage into the article.

Hope it helps. -- Activism  1234  23:41, 28 August 2012 (UTC)
 * I doubt it was made up and was awaiting a South Sudan reaction, for one. BUT IT was unsourced and shouldnt be on till hen. I did keep the sourced one (Gebreselassie)Lihaas (talk) 23:43, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

New article on ethnic federalism in Ethiopia?
The topic of ethnic federalism as applied in Ethiopia could be spun off into a separate article. There have been various papers and at least one book-length academic compilation published on the topic.--A12n (talk) 11:06, 1 September 2012 (UTC)
 * Go for it, I also think his 21 long years as PM (leader) could get a sep article, as well.--Inayity (talk) 12:13, 1 September 2012 (UTC)

Article too long need to move some to Premiership of Meles Zenawi
I am suggesting we move all of that content about his domestic policy, and foreign errors (typo)to the article above. This current article is far too long. Awaiting agreement. --Inayity (talk) 06:38, 5 October 2012 (UTC)

Foreign Policies need to be moved out of this page
The new article on Meles as a PM, already has in the Foreign policy section, we should stub it in this article and add the hatnote. --Inayity (talk) 21:01, 5 November 2012 (UTC)

neutrality
I think the article is biased and not properly cited --يوسف حسين (talk) 17:31, 25 April 2013 (UTC)
 * you will need to be more specific about the descriptor "biased". What language, what sections, what choice of sourcing is inappropriate? -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  17:54, 25 April 2013 (UTC)

I was referring to the introduction. There was something like he "was known to ethiopian people as a brutal dictator who favored his own ethnic group" and that was not even cited --يوسف حسين (talk) 18:13, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * yes, once i looked at the text and i saw that, i knew that was at least one issue. if that was the basis of your concern too, then we should be able to mark this as completed. that you for bringing that to our attention. -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom  18:18, 26 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Because everyone is messing with the established lead. I think after his death the lead I just put back sums up Meles. the pro and the con. How can you leave out he was considered a brute--a strongman, a dictator, a Western puppet? That is how he is known as much as there is also good (like the reforms). The lead should reflect all of that. With ref. When he left collage is not something you put in the lede, that is in his background, early years. Just keep it to the most critical items. --Inayity (talk) 20:42, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

Split a huge mistake!
The article has become completely useless, it all it talks about is his foreign policy, human rights violations, his death and his accolades. It tells us nothing about his reforms, domestic policies, or his time as rebel leader during the Ethiopian Civil War. Some that informatiom is in the premiership article, and that should be merged back in. It's not enough but it's a start. Charles Essie (talk) 16:25, 8 June 2013 (UTC)
 * It is common policy, with wikipedia, to prevent an article becoming too large to split it. It is done with every single other politician including (but not limited to) Ronald Reagan, Jimmy Carter, and Barack Obama. If no other people are raising this objection to an issue already discussed, then the tag has to come down as "serious Mistake" is not a wikipedia rationale for tagging. As there is no rationale for merging what was purposely split. --Inayity (talk) 09:55, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * I did offer a rationale, the main article does include enough information about his presidency and premiership, that information was there until it was split into another article. The articles on Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, and Barack Obama do include extensive information about their presidencies while this one does not, it only discusses his foreign policy, human rights violations, death, and accolades. All the information about his leadership was removed and needlessly put into a second article, it should be reincorperated. Charles Essie (talk) 17:49, 20 August 2013 (UTC)
 * Your rationale only goes as far as this article is lacking material. Do not see the argument for a re-merge. There is a problem with this article lacking overview (correct?) so then you summarize on this article. What does that have to do with a detailed article on his leadership? So the issue is not about merging articles, but on the details used in this one. As i stated earlier, this article had become WP:LENGTH (and this problem still exist) the step, as with every article is to create a detailed article. Which can be independently developed with detail focus. So your task, if you have the above issue, is to take the highlights from the detailed article and summarize them on this page. Just like Ronald Reagan has Political positions of Ronald Reagan and Reaganomics, Electoral history of Ronald Reagan, Domestic policy of the Ronald Reagan administration, Foreign policy of the Ronald Reagan administration, Presidency of Ronald Reagan,Reagan Doctrine. Merging is therefore not a solution per WP:LENGTH. --Inayity (talk) 08:19, 21 August 2013 (UTC)

Lead is for...
The lead is for an overview, not nuanced details about Meles government. So the details I have just reverted do not belong in the lede. Which should summarize. Also we should try to separate the Ethiopian government from Meles, just as we do with Obama administration and Obama. Because then what happens is we duplicate info and Meles becomes the Ethiopian government. (that is just my take). And we can look at similar pages for a guide.--Inayity (talk) 07:13, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

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Assessment comment
Substituted at 23:40, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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Foreign Affairs isn't neutral or even self consistent with it's partisanship.
I can tell the Foreign affairs section and others aren't neutral because they conflict on basic facts. In the history we read

"following the Eritrean troops invasion of Badme and parts of Sheraro woredas"

Later in the foreign affairs it says that Ethiopia invaded Eritrea starting the war while Eritrea wasn't doing anything.

If it's disputes territory then say something to that effect "in 1998 Eritrea sent troops into disputed border towns of .... Ethiopia responded with military force... Etc etc..."

I don't know the history but as it reads it's just two different partisans attempting to state as fact their perspectives not a neutral historical account. Im.thatoneguy (talk) 23:38, 5 December 2021 (UTC)

Date of birth
There is a big contentious issue about his birth date. I extensively search in Google and some sources say he was born on 8 May and other 9 May, which share tantamount assertion in all sides (comparing Google Books references (9 May) and  (8 May)). Some obituary sources I found from mainstream news such as BBC, Al-Jazeera and AP News asserted that he was born on 8 May. I want to know consensus around involving editors in this article. The Supermind (talk) 12:29, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Meles Zenawi


text:
Belpre

Belpre may refer to a place in the United States:

 * Belpre, Kansas
 * Belpre, Ohio
 * Belpre Township, Edwards County, Kansas
 * Belpre Township, Ohio

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Belpre


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Letter to Brezhnev

 This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion of the article below. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was keep rewritten article. sjorford →•← 15:45, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Letter to Brezhnev
This isn't an article. It is more of a review. DCEdwards1966 16:23, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep Put it on cleanup. I suspect it's copied from a book, though I don't think that's a problem as it's a quotation. Mr. Jones 19:50, 15 Feb 2005 (UTC)
 * Keep It got two links.--Jirate 21:46, 2005 Feb 15 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion, or the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Talk:Two-phase electric power

Untitled
material chopped out of three phase placed below it may be of use to expand on stuff here

Sometimes single phase center-tapped (split phase) 240 Vac is incorrectly referred to as "two-phase". It should be noted that a two phase system is a system in which the two voltages are 90° out of phase. For example, if one is $$cos(2\pi\times 60t)$$ and the other is $$\sin(2\pi\times 60t)$$, where t is time, then you have a two phase system, also known as a quadrature system (one being referred to as the real part and the other being referred to as the imaginary part). A two phase system for 120 Vac line to neutral will measure approximately 169.7 Vac line to line. Two phase systems are seldom used for high power because they require the same number of hookup wires as three-phase (i.e. one for sine, one for cosine, and a common wire) delta connection, and the two phase system also does not balance the same amount of electricity in each of the three wires (although the cosine and sine are balanced, the neutral is not the same as the other two). A two-phase system is said to provide complex power and such systems are used at lower voltages (e.g. for communications applications, or to run stepper motors, and the like) but not commonly distributed at high power levels.

I'll probablly look at integrating this stuff later if noone else does Plugwash 16:25, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Has This Arrangement Ever Been Deployed?
It seems very natural, that in the power stations "grid transformer" the secondaries could be center tapped and earthed, thus producing two additional phases rotated 180° degrees from their source phase, making four phases 90° apart. In this way, at least the distribution network could operate with optimal copper, insulator plates and safety radius. If this has been used, I think it would bee worth to mention. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.195.7.227 (talk) 10:51, 10 November 2012 (UTC)

I added a link
...for scott connection finally, and today a picture. Hope this helps.Cpswarrior 21:49, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Please
Please don't confuse the unwary reader with conflating "two phase" with "phase and return". Unless you can get a unique sense of rotation of a magnetic field out of it, it's not a polyphase system. It is useless and confusing to speak of "phases" when all you've got is a suppy wire and a return wire of instantaneously opposite polarity. The electrical business would be a lot clearer all around if people only spoke of "phases" in the context of a polyphase system, and encyclopedias ought to be models of clarity. --Wtshymanski 17:30, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

Constant power?
"Furthermore, power transfer in a three-phase system with balanced loads is nearly constant, whereas it pulsates at twice the line frequency in single-phase systems and four times the line frequency in two-phase systems."

Cite or explain please? By my math, sine squared plus cosine squared is unity. Where does this supposed "pulsating" originate? 146.6.208.13 (talk) 21:22, 12 April 2011 (UTC)

Similar issue here: "These power pulsations tend to cause increased mechanical noise in transformer and motor laminations due to magnestriction and torsional vibration in generator and motor drive shafts."

Balanced 2- and 3-phase systems with linear loads deliver constant power. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.149.85.127 (talk) 14:04, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Writing issues
There are some problems with the article's writing, for example this sentence: As of 21st century, two-phase power was superseded with three phases and is not used in the industry. NotYourFathersOldsmobile (talk) 22:54, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Two-phase electric power


text:
Laurentian

Laurentian (French: Laurentides or Laurentien) may refer to:

 * Relation to Saint Lawrence

Geography
North America
 * Laurentide Ice Sheet, the continental glacier covering much of North America during the Pleistocene Epoch
 * Relating to the Saint Lawrence River

Canada
 * Laurentia, the craton at the heart of the North American continent
 * Canadian Shield, also known as the Laurentian Shield or the Laurentian Plateau.
 * Laurentian Divide, also known as the "Northern Divide", a continental divide in North America
 * Laurentian Mountains in Quebec
 * Laurentian Upland
 * Laurentian Abyss or Abyssal – a trench off the eastern coast of Canada
 * Laurentides, administrative region in Quebec
 * Laurentides Wildlife Reserve, in Quebec
 * Saint-Lin–Laurentides, a municipality in Quebec
 * Laurentien (Quebec City) (in French: quartier "Notre-Dame-des-Laurentides"), a borough in Quebec City, Quebec
 * Laurentian, Ontario, a neighbourhood within Valley East, Ontario

Other

 * Laurentian University in Sudbury, Ontario
 * Laurentian Bank of Canada
 * Laurentian language, a language in the Iroquoian family of languages
 * Laurentian French, the variety of the French language spoken in Canada
 * Laurentian Codex, a Russian manuscript
 * Laurentian library or Biblioteca Medicea Laurenziana of Florence, Italy
 * Laurentian (train), operated by the Delaware & Hudson
 * Pontiac Laurentian, a Canadian automobile
 * Princess Laurentien of the Netherlands, member of the Dutch royal family
 * Laurentien (art supplies), a Canadian brand of art supplies
 * Laurentian Society, a student society of Trinity College, Dublin University
 * Laurentian Consensus, a Canadian political theory

title: Laurentian


text:
Talk:Mathematics of three-phase electric power

Early comments

 * I still have a lot to write here and i will probablly virtually rewrite the peice to fit this articles style more but i feel that the main information in it fits here better than in three-phase electric power. Im still getting used to wikipedias system for typing forumulae as well so this article may take a while. Plugwash 22:52, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Carry on! I was impressed at the math notation, and it looks pretty reasonable.

The description of "complex power" is just not found in my books, usually the phrase refers to "real" and "reactive" power - nothing to do with three phases. I think 2 phases also has the "constant power" property, I was incorrect.

Not sure if the title should change - "three phase" and "three phase power" might merge together in a while. --Wtshymanski 20:27, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

OpenOffice.org will export pictures in .PNG form - my next project is to draw delta and wye connected sources. --Wtshymanski 02:37, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Nice that you have found a way to make diagrams. The title complex power isn't really right for that section but the content is important. I may comment it out until i get chance to rewrite it. Three phase power is currently a redirect to Three phase electric power which is an article on where why and how three phase is used. That article is already pushing the reccomended size limits of a wikipedia article so merging this lot with it is probabblly not a good idea. Plugwash 12:02, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

A better, or at least more encyclopedic, title would be Three-phase systems. --Wetman 23:02, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * can't say im a fan of long titles myself. Short titles are easier for people to remember and im not really convinced that adding the word systems to this title adds anything usefull Plugwash 12:03, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I'm an electrical engineering student, and this is the first (and only) Wikipedia article I've read that shows caculations without getting to the fundamental issues I need to understand the material. I assume that "star connected" is a more general term for "wye connected" but I would like to see how this relates to delta connections. Particularly helpful would be some talk about the difference between line voltage and phase voltage and the difference between line current and phase current. These are the types of simple-yet-confusing issues that Wikipedia articles can explain like noone else. It would also make sense to discuss the difference between complex, real, and reactive power. If no one has any objections, I might right the complex power bit at the end of the semester. However, I'm not qualified to tackle the other issues I mentioned. I sincerely hope that one of you will write that stuff. Raeyin 21:17, 13 December 2006 (UTC)

 * 'Star' connection is the English useage. 'Wye' connection is the American useage. 86.179.167.116 (talk) 18:03, 18 December 2010 (UTC)

For the non engineering person like myself might be useful to have a paragraph on why such a mechanism is used and some examples

math changes
Purpose of this edit:

 * 1) Avoiding setting dimensional quantities equal to 1.  Instead achieve a similar simplification (removing constant factors from the math) by working in terms of a non-dimensionalized quantity, and substituting back and the end.
 * 2) Use $$V_P$$ as symbol for peak voltage instead of $$A$$, as slightly more self-explanatory.
 * 3) Adding a line explaining what the "star" configuration is.

— Alan✉ 21:20, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

i'd like to send out a big thankyou to whoever put this piece together. i have finished my first year of electrical engineering and we are yet to cover three phase systems, however this has definitely given me a strong head start for the upcoming year.(i particularly like the rotating phase diagram at the bottom, this is a very good visual aid.) two thumbs up & keep up the good work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 203.49.139.142 (talk) 21:56, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

The break down of the trig functions is incorrect. The second minus sign should be a plus sign. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.95.214.18 (talk) 19:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

three phase current
how do i get input current of the three phase power supply if i dont have any power analyzer equipment? if the my supply will be delta or wye, will ther be a difference in current derivation? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.248.16.2 (talk) 08:19, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Introduction
Within the intro, could someone with knowledge on this topic inject a sentence or two of the practical application of three-phase systems? I'm sure this technology is more than just an exercise in mathematics...

 * maybe someone can digest this article: http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/energy/power3.htm 218.186.17.10 (talk) 13:11, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

copyvio accusation
As I said on my talk page I wrote the original content on this page myself from scratch, futher the site I was accused of copying it from didn't even exist at the time I wrote the content as can easilly be seen from a whois on thier domain. Plugwash (talk) 22:51, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

 * I agree that my accusation of Plugwash was probably misplaced, but I don't know that the copyvio tag is. See Plugwash's talk page for a full discussion, including a possible revision number. —Voidxor (talk) 07:00, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Copyright problems
In February 2010, this article was quite properly tagged for copyright investigation given its resemblance to. However, investigation suggests that this is a case of reverse infringement. The oldest archive of that external site is June 15 2006. Focusing solely on the duplicate sentence, "Generally, in electric power systems the load is distributed as evenly as practical between the phases." That sentence enters our article in December 2004, as part of a copy-editing of what previously existed. Another duplicate sentence, "To keep the calculations simple we shall normalize A and R to 1 for the remainder of these calculations", is already in the article by that time, placed by a different contributor.

Noting the above conversation, I look to see that the external site seems to have duplicated the article at some point around here.

Contributors to this article who may be interested in complaining about what seems to be a copyright violation created by the unlicensed reuse of their text may wish to see Mirrors and forks for the process.

The Wikimedia Foundation takes copyright concerns seriously. Noting and helping resolve the problem very much appreciated. :) --Moonriddengirl (talk) 13:19, 6 March 2010 (UTC)

doubt
what are three phase balanced and unbalanced load? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 218.248.64.205 (talk) 17:22, 14 December 2010 (UTC)

 * A balanced load is when the current flowing in all 3 phases are equal in amplitude and exactly 120 degrees apart in phase. In 4 wire delta (or wye) connected system, the 3 currents will sum to zero with the result that there is no current flowing in the neutral.  Any other condition is an unbalanced load.  The absence of a neutral current does not mean that the load is balanced. 86.179.167.116 (talk) 17:13, 2 January 2011 (UTC)

Spelling
It's "triplen" in this context. Google books gives about 1700 hits on 'triplen harmonic current', most of the ones I've looked at are relevant to this article. Changing one letter drops the Google books hits to around 14 results, mostly in music theory, and many with the spelling 'tripluM'. Your move. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:38, 3 January 2011 (UTC)
 * I noted a couple of the 'triplen' hits are from publications in India, so both majority dialects of English spell this word the same way. --Wtshymanski (talk) 15:46, 3 January 2011 (UTC)

Illustration?

Does this illustration support the understanding of a rotating field? Being an electric engineer, I hardly understand it and its function. I have discussed it with a number of colleges - same result. In addition to the confusing vectors, there are a number of disturbing figures and shadows which does not add any understanding to the phenomenon of a rotating field. I suggest to remove this confusing illustration. KjellG (talk) 23:25, 12 March 2011 (UTC) (PS. Why does it not work with 250 px?)

So how does it relate to the real world ?
This is meant to be an encyclopedia - accessible to the intelligent general public, not a showcase for flaunting familiarity with mathematical expressions. There is nothing here about why we need it, how/where/why/when it is used, who invented it and when and why, how it compares and contrasts to other forms of electricity etc. In other words, the context. Anybody who can understand the jargon here wouldn't be using Wikipedia for their research about electricity. Rcbutcher (talk) 09:03, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * That's why the hatnote says "This article is about the basic mathematics and principles of three-phase electricity. For information on where, how and why three-phase is used, see three-phase electric power." This article was meant to spin out minute picky mathematical details out of the main article. --Wtshymanski (talk) 14:56, 27 November 2012 (UTC)
 * D'oh - beats self about head and mutters "I should have read the intro". Sorry. Rcbutcher (talk) 01:48, 28 November 2012 (UTC)
 * It does show the problem with relying on hatnotes, though. We're conditioned to ignore 2/3rd of the text we see every day... --Wtshymanski (talk) 21:35, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

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text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of words censored at the Sports Interactive Messageboards (0th nomination)

List of words censored at the Sports Interactive Messageboards was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE

Non-encyclopedic. DCEdwards1966 16:28, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete - look at the pictures- it's vandalism. Even de-vandalized, though, it's a non-encyclopedic list, so should go. Cdc 17:09, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, obvious vandalism, should've been speedied. Grue 17:25, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text: User talk:202.63.163.66

title: User talk:202.63.163.66


text:
Category:Law enforcement techniques

 * These articles relate to techniques used by law enforcement.

title: Category:Law enforcement techniques