text:
Talk:Milli Vanilli

Hey Arnold Parody Episode
I remember seeing an episode of the Nickelodeon show Hey Arnold! where Phoebe took interest in a singer who looks a lot like MV's members, but it turned out he was lip synching. 99.236.170.52 (talk) 23:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I remember this also. Pre-Teen Scream, with imposter Ronnie Matthews. He was just a model and stage performer. He spoke terrible English and misunderstood Phoebe. "I really thought you were more than just a pretty face." Ronnie: "Why, Thank You! I take good care of my face." LOL. In-Correct (talk) 05:26, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Arthur
The Arthur Show also had a parody. Called "BINKY", performed by Varttina.

Family Guy Cameo
I think I remember Vanilli being in an episode. I think someone needs to clarify this.

I remember Milli: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG6o5AfncaA

Turkish translation?
I have done a little research and it seems that Milli Vanilli does NOT mean "positive energy" in Turkish.

see here

or just google groups search for MV in soc.culture.turkish

Ensiform 14:08, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, could it just be that the spelling is off? Everyking 19:47, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I'm Turk. Well if we literaly translate it, it becomes: "National vanillated" or "our vanilla" - which says nothing, very stupid :p But it's definitely not 'positive energy', that's ABSOLUTELY wrong and even more stupid :D —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 213.224.34.49 (talk) 03:29, 28 March 2007 (UTC).

== I too have looked this up, and yeah...it doesn't mean positive energy. I'm taking it out. Richard Corey 17:57, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Did you know that Girl You Know It's True is NOT original?
This might give a nice spice on the article. :-) The song originates indeed from another group called NUMARX (gladly I have those myself, by far not that easy to get these days), published in 1987 and covered by Mr Farian in 1988. 80.129.77.17 03:26, 4 August 2005 (UTC) -andy

Unclear sentence

 * "They are infamous for being the only recording act to have their Grammy Award stripped from them in 1990 after it was revealed that they had not been involved in the creation of their breakthrough album, Girl You Know It's True, and instead had simply appeared on the album cover, and had lip-synched to pre-recorded studio singers in music videos and in concert."

Now I don't know anything about the Grammy Awards or this group, however, this sentence needs to be rewritten in a clearer fashion by someone who knows the story. Right now it is unclear where the 'famous' part of the sentence stops. Are they the only recording act to have a Grammy stripped from them? Or the only recording act to have a Grammy stripped from them in 1990? Or..?? - SCEhard T 05:41, 24 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The opening paragraph has been retooled for clarity and style. - Chadbryant 11:48, 24 December 2005 (UTC)

Work needed
I don't have time right now, but someone needs to go through this article and fix a few things (such as headings) to conform with style guidelines & NPOV (particularly the section entitled "Tragic Epilogue") Stellertony the Bookcrosser 09:06, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Did that. Article should be much cleaner now.--み使い Mitsukai 16:28, 14 March 2006 (UTC)

I've added a whole lotta more stuff about the various refund lawsuits that emerged after the ruse was uncovered. However, i've just removed this chunk: At any given time, several dozen copies of the American CDs are available on eBay, and they usually sell for more than one would make by accepting the refund offer.

There are rumors to the effect that it is legally impossible for Arista to reissue Milli Vanilli CDs in the USA. Supposedly one out-of-court settlement (with the original singers) forbids the company from selling discs with Rob & Fab's image on the packaging, while another settlement (with Rob & Fab themselves) forbids the company from selling discs without their image. The discs have been re-released outside the USA, with the duo's picture on them.

Can anyone verify any of this this? I mainly see two problems with the deleted text. 1) I can't see how Girl You Know it's True (GYKIT) could be reissued if the original tapes have been deleted. 2) The deadline for refunds on GYKIT and related Milli Vanilli stuff expired over 12 years ago. In saying this, why would want to make an eBay profit on a refund which can no longer be claimed? In short, the deleted text defies logic. - Thanks, Hoshie | 08:17, 27 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Plus the second claim about the two conflicting settlements is just too ironic to be true. Real life doesn't operate like that at all. Well deleted, says I. --Agamemnon2 07:40, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Haha, then you don't know much about real life...

I have personally never heard of such lawsuits and I was one of the original singers. If what is stated above were true, the discs would not have been re-released anywhere. 'Out of court' means there was a motion filed and a case number issued somewhere in the US or Germany. In the US that information becomes public domain unless there is a gag order or a sealed decision. Even though, the case number would be available. Jroccolv (talk) 21:31, 9 March 2017 (UTC)Jodie RoccoJroccolv (talk) 21:31, 9 March 2017 (UTC)

ROB & FAB "WE CAN GET IT ON" Music Video
Can anyone tell if there is a videoclip made for the Rob & Fab's single "We Can Get It On"; I could swear that I've seen it during that time. But I haven't found any reference to it in the article. Maybe I had mixed memories, LOL.

 * You may mean the tape of them performing the song on The Arsenio Hall Show, featured in their Behind the Music episode. But if you're talking about a music video for the actual song, I doubt it. The production company (Joss Entertainment} didn't even promote Rob & Fab's album that well, I doubt they would have spent the money to make a music video. --Lovelinelistener 01:08, 30 June 2006 (UTC)

Mmm... no. The Rob & Fab video for We Can Get It On can be watched on the VH1 Behind the Music, here's a link for fragments of the video (the b&w ones, around 3:33 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1HVe_IB9GM ), does anyone around here have it recorded?

A bit _too_ gentle
The intro currently says this:
 * Like many manufactured groups of the era, such as C&C Music Factory, none of the live performances were actually sung, because the vocals were provided by studio artists. Due to confusion resulting from this, they had their Grammy award for Best New Artist 1990 revoked.

This is about the gentlest description of the Milli Vanilli case I've ever heard. "Confusion"? Didn't they actually claim they were singing until the incident in question?

And the statement in the text -- that their live performances were recordings by studio artists -- would only make sense if their non-live recordings were also by studio artists (if they could sing in studio but not live, why not just play their own studio recordings?). So the article is really stating that they never sang at all, which it should do more directly. --Saforrest 00:31, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. Exactly what I was thinking. SandwichHat 04:04, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

I also agree. Although lip-synching in concert was certainly controversial, the primary scandal was the fact that they didn't even sing on their own records. I changed the intro to reflect this. Also, I moved some of the Frank Farian stuff to his own article and deleted non-NPOV items about "memorable closure" and enduring influence on future musical trends. GentlemanGhost 17:20, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

There's got to be more story in why Milli Vanilli got shafted the way they did, since the supposed offences are normal procedure on the pop music industry. I doubt there is anyone who doesn't understand that performances at the Grammys show are lip synched. Nor is it likely that people who go to see groups of this type believe they are actually singing during any live appearance; aside from anything else, the sound quality would be awful if a performer actually sang with a contact mike while dancing on stage. Lip synching didn't bother Michael Jackson or Madonna fans. If there's an issue at all, it's that the front men didn't appear on the recorded work credited to them, but that's not unusual in pop music either. Free Milli Vanilli! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.25.16.135 (talk) 18:31, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

 * It's mostly a culture clash: in Germany lip syncing is pretty common, and so no one was fazed by this "scandal". (People aren't expected to be good singers, dancers, composers, and good looking all at the same time.)  That is why the controversy can justifiably be called a misunderstanding. --24.85.82.38 (talk) 05:09, 15 September 2011 (UTC)

Re: "the supposed offences are normal procedure on the pop music industry":

Not so sure about that, but "normal procedure" varies over time, and we're discussing a group from the past. In the '60's and beyond it was apparently common for members of rock groups to be sometimes replaced furtively by studio musicians. I've read that this happened with the Beach Boys and Herman's Hermits. The lead singer of the Grass Roots personally told me that this happened with his group, and a bass player for the Box Tops told me he was never allowed to perform on records (he also told me he got the job because his father had been a record executive). Conversely, rock groups supposedly performing on television variety shows in the sixties and beyond often only pretended to play, but the had played on the recordings. In the case of Milli Vanilli, however, we have people pretending to sing lead who never played or sang either in the studio or live. That's rather a different matter. Anyway, "everyone else does it too" isn't much of a defense.

Re: "People aren't expected to be good singers, dancers, composers, and good looking all at the same time."

That makes no sense. If they weren't expected to be all these things, they wouldn't be pretending to be them. We'd have singers singing, dancers dancing, composers composing, and models modelling. When we have instead people faking, we have a clear demonstration that they are indeed expected to be all these things. TheScotch (talk) 11:27, 29 December 2013 (UTC)

Rob's Age
On Behind The Music, it said he was born in 1964. 68.154.15.86 02:15, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

September 2006 cleanup request
The breaking of the lip-syncing story is badly introduced and it is repeated. This is in need of reorganization. --Liberlogos 21:34, 9 September 2006 (UTC)

American phenomenon
The MV-"scandal" was largely contained to the US, Europeans were baffled by it. The fact that many pop groups are pure studio products with models chosen for looks posing on stage is well-known and not normally frowned upon on this side of the pond. See for example Boney M, also a Farian product. The fact that not all of the front persons actually sang was widely published at the time they were popular, but did not hinder their success. Probably many US acts are produced the same way, but the fact is kept secret. In Europe it generally is not, and hardly anyone cares anyway. This cultural difference ought to be included in the article Anorak2 16:26, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

This is only partially true. There is no doubt that this was, up to the time of the scandal, a not uncommon or unacceptable practice. Boney M, Black Box, and C&C Music Factory (at least the single "Gonna Make You Sweat") were good examples, but even these are very different cases so here's some facts: - In the case of Boney M, Williams and Farrell were left off the final mixes though did sing in the studio and they did sing live in concert. Which is in stark contrast to Milli Vanilli, who (despite the fact that the two were able to sing, at least Fabrice Morvan was and still is) not only didn't contribute anything to the records, but also didn't sing in concert either.

- Black Box was similar to Milli Vanilli in this regard, in that Katrin Quinol lip-synced to Martha Wash's voice. However, C&C Music Factory only did so for that one song with Zelma Davis actually singing on all other tracks on the album. Also note that Wash and Davis did sing together in a later single. Both artists were up for the Grammy the year after the MV scandal, but didn't win because the committee had feared a backlash

- even some more respected artists may not have been honest as to who actually performed on certain recordings, but this is likely not the place to delve into this.

- In any case, the MV scandal came about because of the following things: 1.Unlike some of the other acts mentioned, they were actually hugely successful in the US market, and once you are successful there you should be aware of the consequences if you aren't totally honest. 2.The fact they they were the most successful/visible of such dance/pop acts. (see above) 3.More likely, the fact they allowed their success to inflate their egos at the time, contributed to their undoing- and also made them easy targets for the knockers (hence Arsenio Hall and In Living Color frequently ridiculed them, both before and after the scandal). Remember too that Pilatus was also ridiculed for statements comparing himself and Milli Vanilli to various legends of music.

- And lastly, what the scandal did do was force the music industry to curb these practices, i.e. everyone credited must actually perform. Everton4Life 14:07, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

Aye. and personally, I object to seeing Rob and Fab listed as members. In a direct sense they were actually actors, dubbing for this group's real members, Johnny Davis, Brad Howell and Charles Shaw. I have edited the members section to reflect that fact.

Once more, I think it's about time the NARAS give these 3 guys their due, and give them the Grammy Awards they took from Rob and Fab in 1990 for Best New Artist. Sure, the people bought 8 million albums under the illusion of thinking that it was those 2 who sang everything on the album; but should the real members be penalized for the deception that Frank Farian created, because he thought it would sell the original trio who sang and performed these tunes? I think absolutely not! -CookyMonzta (Dec. 27, 12:14 A.M. E.S.T.)

-- That's NOT fair. Rob & Fab WERE Milli Vanilli, they were everything in the group but the vocals performances. The were not just actors, the were dancers and the ones who threw Milli Vanilli to the estrathosphere. In the Mtv era vocals are not that important. Anyone could sing Girl You Know It's True, but no one could've make it look better than this two.

 * Except for those of us who did not have MTV (which in the late 80s was a good 3/4ths of America). For us Milli Vanilli was purely & only the sound we heard coming from our radios.  The "actors" who danced on stage were not even known to me.  I was just enjoying the sound.

 * And yes, I agree the original vocalists deserve some kind of recognition, even if it's just a "lead vocals" award for the songs they created.   Theaveng (talk) 14:50, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Looks to me like a load of revisionist bs. They were frauds. They represented themselves as the singers everywhere, not just on stage. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.155.81.74 (talk) 05:34, 22 October 2011 (UTC)

Empire Bizarre?
Although it has been removed from the singles list, it did once say that the single "Dansez" which, after research found that Empire Bizarre did make, why was it listed here? Was it a previous incarnation of MV? No...it was produced by Ralph Siegel....Empire Bizarre is to find on You Tube.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Musicworldvision (talk • contribs) 22:44, 4 December 2023 (UTC)

Chris Henly is gay
I have just deleted all references to the above comment. I dont know who made this but it was placed x7 in the article. keep an eye on it —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Boils (talk • contribs) 12:41, 15 December 2006 (UTC).

 * that is just plain vandalism. Karrmann 14:04, 27 December 2006 (UTC)

Just reverted because of more of the same213.38.11.86 (talk) 10:45, 17 June 2008 (UTC)

Funky see funky doo (The Simpsons)
Someone should add this reference to the "Popular Culture" section. They were the band that hit #1 after "We're Sending our Love Down the Well" on the episode where Bart get's stuck down the well. One of the characters looks like Milli Vanilli and the other looks like Kid from House Party

Excessive Vandalism -> Lock page to anonymous users?
I found this page a while ago, full of this crap:

http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Milli_Vanilli&oldid=108897374

Upon viewing the history, it seems this page *frequently* experiences vandalism. I suggest edit rights for this page be restricted to registered users, to try and keep the page under control.

Coviti 20:30, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

trivia section
it seems really unnecessary and pointless to list every mention of MV from every lame sitcom...is Paris Hilton listed for every time a TV show made a jab at her? I wonder if only unique or distinct instances (such as the gum commercial) should be listed...Bawtyshouse 02:39, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Arsenio Hall
During Arsenio Hall's old show, after the lip-syncing scandal broke, Hall made the group the butt of a series of jokes, with the usual punchline being "Vanilli." This could be added to the article somewhere, maybe in the "In Popular Culture" section. Misterdoe 16:02, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Sister Kate
Appeared in Sister Kate, an American situation comedy debuting on the NBC television network in 1989 and lasting one season, and performed Blame It on the Rain. The show featured early work by Jason Priestley. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.135.214.2 (talk) 17:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

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Brüno
Is there any reason to be concerned that vandalism may come in due to Milli Vanilli's prominent and sexually explicit reference in Sascha Baron Cohen's new film? Zazaban (talk) 21:05, 30 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Apparently not. - 23:23, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

 * Yup, nothing so far. I think the reference simply went unnoticed, probably because most Bruno fans have no idea who Milli Vanilli were. Even if some of them do know them, I doubt they remember the controversy surrounding the group, or the fact that 18 years ago their songs were declared uncool. 81.101.19.90 (talk) 23:08, 11 November 2009 (UTC)

Dead external links to Allmusic website – January 2011
Since Allmusic have changed the syntax of their URLs, 1 link(s) used in the article do not work anymore and can't be migrated automatically. Please use the search option on http://www.allmusic.com to find the new location of the linked Allmusic article(s) and fix the link(s) accordingly, prefereably by using the Allmusic template. If a new location cannot be found, the link(s) should be removed. This applies to the following external links: --CactusBot (talk) 10:52, 2 January 2011 (UTC)
 * http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=B52x7gjwrj6ix

Further Developments -> The Adventures of Super Mario Bros 3
It should be noted that the episode first aired with the songs intact, but the removal of the songs did take place immediately after, even before the series went into syndication LReyome254 (talk) 20:09, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
 * Without sourcing this information isn't appropriate for inclusion in any case per WP:VERIFY. Doniago (talk) 14:58, 31 January 2011 (UTC)

Why not list every member?
The infobox only has two past members, the performers but not the actual singers. I think the singers need to be included.

In-Correct (talk) 05:18, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Unsourced Material
Article has been tagged for needing citations since 2011. Feel free to reincorporate the below material with appropriate references. DonIago (talk) 13:58, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Positive energy
Shouldn't the claim that the band's name comes from "positive energy" in Turkish be mentioned, even if only to refute it? I know it's not true, of course, but it's one of the only two things that a lot of people "know" about the band (the other being the lip-synching), and from a quick search, it looks as though one of the band members may have made the claim. --Trovatore (talk) 05:16, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Interesting. I was a teenager in Germany while they rose to their questionable fame, and didn't remember that part about any meaning of the name. But you're correct, here's a print source which quotes one of them:
 * "We rented a club and on Mondays, we organized milli night for Turkish customers," he says. "In Turkish, milli means positive energy. Vanilli is just a fantasy name. We decided to put them together." https://books.google.de/books?id=X9QDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA31&lpg=PA31&dq=milli+vanilli+positive+energy&source=bl&ots=UWtUlSXMeI&sig=oywBzEWVOMrn5M6lxgk2Duj3qzI&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0CF0Q6AEwCGoVChMI8sXjvv6-xwIVhG0UCh3__A-m#v=onepage&q=milli%20vanilli%20positive%20energy&f=false
 * I don't speak Turkish, but according to Google translate 'milli' means 'national', so there's that. Never heard of 'milli nights' either (despite living in a neighborhood with almost 50% migrants, the majority of them Turkish - one would expect to catch the phrase on flyers or posters eventually). Well, it makes sense as 'national night', as a club night for Turkish youth, plus some bullshit made up by Morvan about the meaning. Considering that everything was manufactured by Farian, a background story about the founding days should be taken with an extra bit of salt. As a side note, personally I always suspected that 'Vanilli' was a nod to the fashion label 'Vanilia' (their jeans were extremely popular among teenagers at the same time), but that's pure speculation from my side. Either way, yeah I think the alleged meaning can be mentioned, because it can be sourced to a straight quote from one of the 'singers'. Rh73 (talk) 11:09, 23 August 2015 (UTC)
 * Also, it seems this part was in the article years ago, then got removed after some discussion. What would be the best way to bring it back, if at all?Rh73 (talk) 11:21, 23 August 2015 (UTC)

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Origins of name Milli Vanilli
Consider adding this please, "In the metric system, a Milli Vanilli is 1/1000 of a vanilli. Rob & Fab broke up the name into two words because it was easier to pronounce that way." (amiright.com). The Wikipedia article for "Milli" explains the units of measurement. Nibinaear (talk) 22:27, 6 August 2018 (UTC)
 * According to Rob Pilatus's obit in The Independent, Milli Vanilli was "named after a New York night club." --Muzilon (talk) 14:41, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

"Spinning Wheel" lawsuit
I was surprised the article didn't mention the group being sued for (allegedly) stealing the tune of "Spinning Wheel" for "All or Nothing", so I added a sentence. Does anyone know the outcome of that lawsuit? I couldn't find anything online. --Muzilon (talk) 14:14, 21 December 2018 (UTC)

Inaccuracy concerning their hair
In the "Beginnings, 1988-1989" section, eighth paragraph, their hair is described as "cornrow hair extensions." Milli Vanilli did not wear cornows. They just wore regular braids. Cornrows are interlocked using the hair next to the scalp so the braids create rows along the scalp, similar to French braids. It should just say "braided hair extensions." 2603:900A:1101:85B3:195A:32CD:D3FD:8F22 (talk) 04:29, 20 August 2023 (UTC)

Unsourced opinion
This sentence is completely unsourced by given source and highly opinionated:

"(1) The film, without describing them as innocent, points out that a great many people knew about the deception, but the singers became the scapegoats; (2) the popular narrative was incomplete and misdirected at the two public faces of a much larger operation."

95.90.117.239 (talk) 13:05, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

 * As the editor who added this text, I believe your thoughts would be particularly helpful here. I would note that there's a later section that seems to discuss the film in more detail; does that make this redundant or unneeded? DonIago (talk) 13:24, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

I don't claim any expertise, and don't have an opinion about the events (I can't, I don't know enough). My intention was to summarise, not to discuss the events directly. Paragraphs of the newspaper article which, I think are adequately summarised by what I wrote are:

"1&2: The popular narrative of Milli Vanilli – that Rob and Fab lied about their talents and misled their fans and should suffer the consequences – was swift, vindictive and enduring. And, as the documentary argues, incomplete and misdirected at the two public faces of a much larger operation. ... 1: The issue, as the film frames it, was not that Morvan and Pilatus had culpability, but that they shouldered the entire scandal alone. “Do they deserve to be called out on some level? Sure. But what about everybody else?” said Korem. Farian, Arista, their record executives and their management emerged largely unscathed. ... 2: “It’s mind-blowing to think that the media just went after us, and never went after the people pulling the reins,” said Morvan. “It’s almost as if they said, ‘Hey, listen, we can’t touch the man in black, so that energy should go toward [Rob and Fab].’”"

I've had a quick look (no more) at the section on the film, added after my edit; it just says that "there are layers", and doesn't seem to summarise it as well as the newspaper article, the sentence discussed here could be moved into that section.

Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 14:08, 24 October 2023 (UTC)

 * The problem here is, that you summarise an opinion as if it were a matter of fact. The article contains the view of an Guardian-author on the film and on the events. So if you want to keep the sentence, there is something missing like "In the opinion of the british Guardian" or something like that. 95.90.117.239 (talk) 09:44, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

 * The opinion seems fairly universal, not an outlier; I've added another (US) reference, and plenty more can be found. Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 11:36, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Even an is still an opinion and needs to be presented according to WP guidelines. Its not the number of sources, that bugs me, the Guardian is a fairly accurate source. Its the representation here of opinion as fact, or as interpretation as fact. 95.90.117.239 (talk) 14:25, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

 * "universal opinion ... needs to be presented according to WP guidelines." ? I think that you should first go through all Wikipedia articles that assume the Earth to be approximately spherical and add "the opinion of many scientists is that the Earth is an oblate spheroid, while others list evidence that it is a plane. "

 * Best wishes, Pol098 (talk) 14:51, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

The Real Milli Vanilli section opens in the middle of a paragraph
I'm new here so I can't edit it myself,but it looks like the section starts "The Resulting Album..." but doesn't contain the previous sentence. I was reading up on it elsewhere and coincidentally stumbled on this Medium article https://medium.com/@RichTVXNews/in-memoriam-john-davis-illuminating-a-genuine-milli-vanilli-vocalist-ed321dd17059

the quote seems to have been pulled from this paragraph, in the above article, or they both pulled from the same third party

Bold DaiMadAboutIt (talk) 08:27, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

 * Bold DaiMadAboutIt (talk) 08:32, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
 * (paragraph mentioned above, with the text that's already featured or approximated in parenthesis since I'm new here and can't figure out how to make things bold or underlined)
 * The Moment of Truth DaiMadAboutIt (talk) 08:38, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
 * (The resultant album, renamed “The Moment of Truth,” featured Davis and Brad Howell, emerging as the bona fide vocalists constituting the Real Milli Vanilli. This singular album, the sole collaborative effort between Davis and Howell, failed to secure release in the United States. Nevertheless, it ascended to prominence within Germany’s Top 20 albums.) DaiMadAboutIt (talk) 08:39, 9 February 2024 (UTC)
 * source quotation, I'm apparently a failure at this, but I hope someone can understand what I'm saying and make the necessary edits!
 * The Moment of Truth Subsequent to the revelation exposing the non-authentic vocal contributions of Morvan and Pilatus to the Milli Vanilli project, Frank Farian undertook a reconfiguration of the originally planned album for the initial duo. The resultant album, renamed “The Moment of Truth,” featured Davis and Brad Howell, emerging as the bona fide vocalists constituting the Real Milli Vanilli. This singular album, the sole collaborative effort between Davis and Howell, failed to secure release in the United States. Nevertheless, it ascended to prominence within Germany’s Top 20 albums. DaiMadAboutIt (talk) 08:43, 9 February 2024 (UTC)

The real Milli vanilli
Thank you for accepting my edit! DaiMadAboutIt (talk) 16:35, 16 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Milli Vanilli


text: User talk:204.108.198.2

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:204.108.198.2


text:
Talk:Tonne

Confusing!
The first paragraph of this "explanatory" article is a confusing mass of claptrap and trivial nonsense. -- Brothernight (talk) 05:12, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
 * Agree. It is contradictory, first implying very strongly that it is an SI unit with "(SI unit symbol: t)", and then stating that it isn't an SI unit with "It is a non-SI unit [...] ".
 * —DIV (138.194.12.224 (talk) 03:18, 29 November 2012 (UTC))

 * From what you said, it would appear that way, but if you hadn't truncated to sentence where you did that wouldn't be the case. It does not say "It is a non-SI unit", but "It is a non-SI unit accepted for use with SI". In other words, it is not an official SI unit, but its use is accepted within the SI system (similar to the minute, the degree and many other units; see non-SI units mentioned in the SI). Is it potentially confusing? Yes. Is it contradictory? No.

 * Also note when that post was made - May 2011. As such, it is not referring to the current lead, but to this version:.

 *  Alphathon    ( talk ) 16:23, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

word origins

 * The naming of this unit was far from original because SI advocates derived the name of their unit from the already well established ton and added an '-ne' suffix to differentiate between the SI tonne and non-metric ton. The tonne is also less formally called metric ton but this name is deprecated since it mixes metric and non-metric terms.

This wasn't done by "SI advocates"; the names ton and tonne existed long before there was an SI, which was only introduced in 1960.

It wasn't the adding of an -ne to the English word for this distinguishing purpose. Rather, it was a direct borrowing of the French word. A French word which dates back to even before there was any metric system, let alone the modern version called the International System of Units.

In French, of course, "tonne" is just as ambiguous as "ton" is in English. What do you suppose an unidentified "tonne" would have been in Quebec 50 years ago, for example? Most likely a tonne courte, or 2000 English pounds, unless it was in shipping where it would likely be the tonne forte of 2240 lb.

I'm no expert in French, but I think it would be a pretty safe assumption that today (though not necessarily in the past), wherever French is spoken or written, if tonne is used without any other identifying adjective, it is the tonne mètrique.

In English, "tonne" is somewhat less ambiguous than in French. Nonetheless, the terms "short tonne" and "long tonne" are used, rarely. Furthermore, many are careful to specifically identify the units as "metric tonnes"; Google "metric tonne"  37,200 hits "metric tonnes" 149,000 hits

Gene Nygaard 14:09, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * To complicate matters, the French « tonne » also designates a large liquid container (of which the barrel, « tonneau » is a diminutive), more or less the equivalent of the English tun.
 * Urhixidur 11:25, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

I don't get the part with celtic origin. I'm no linguist, but what word in celtic should it derive from through what transformations? Tonne is also used in German as well for the metric ton of a thousand kilogram as for the big barrel. If it is a word we derived from french, I would be interested what theory of celtic origin exists. As it is, the mention of a possible celtic origin is not helpful but rather confusive. 141.76.40.139 09:11, 6 September 2007 (UTC)
 * The Celtic reference is no longer in the article (and the section on the origin of the word is complete enough as it now stands IMHO). But, just for the record, it is possible that the word "tun" in the wine-cask sense is derived from Celtic (cf. Middle Irish tunna = skin, hide), given that wine was formerly transported in skins. -- Picapica (talk) 08:54, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

TNT
"ton of TNT or tonne of Trinitrotoluene is a unit of energy based on the tonne, assuming 1000 small (thermochemical) calories per gram (4.184 kJ/g) and thus a tonne of TNT is 4.184 GJ. This unit is also not acceptable for use with SI."

This argument is pretty much meaningless, because those who speak (kilo)ton TNT have the nukes and so they don't need to care a damn about SI or customary units. It's hard to argue with someone who has the bomb ...
 * i've seen not acceptable for use with SI in various places on wikipedia. I suspect "acceptable for use with SI" has a specific technical and/or regulatory meaning can anyone confirm?

 * There are three or four different classes of units which are acceptable for SI; some of those units are only "currently" (BIPM) or "temporarily" (NIST) acceptable.

 * BIPM SI brochure
 * NIST Special Publication 811
 * Gene Nygaard 10:04, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The section on TNT should be deleted. It refers to the unit 'ton of TNT'. Not only is that not a unit of mass, it has nothing to do with the tonne. Grassynoel (talk) 02:57, 5 January 2023 (UTC)

weight/mass
surely the tonne is a measurement of mass and not weight as is stated in the first line of the wiki entry ?

 * Surely you are confused. Both of those words are ambiguous words, with several different meanings.  Much of the time they mean the very same thing.  Quite properly and legitimately, in usages well justified in history, in linguistics, and in the law.  Gene Nygaard (talk) 03:04, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Surely, the first user was not confused. The words "mass" and "weight" are often used interchangeably; this does not mean that they "properly and legitimately" have the same meaning.  If I have a tonne of lead on Earth, and I move it to the Moon, is it still a tonne of lead?  If the answer is yes, then the tonne is a unit of mass.  If the answer is no, then the tonne is a unit of weight.  Your allusions to history, linguistics, and law are obsolete. The vast majority of humanity's history and language took shape before we had the ability to leave Earth; legal codes adopted since the "space race" still generally assume an Earthbound jurisdiction where the weight/mass distinction is mostly irrelevant.  Colonizing other bodies in the solar system (or beyond) will inevitably require that lawyers pay more attention in science class. Cheers. 168.9.120.8 (talk) 12:53, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

 * Bullshit!
 * We have been for over a thousand years, since the word first entered Old English, been using weight to mean the quantity measured with a balance. That quantity is mass, not force.  That is what weight always means—the quantity called "mass" in physics jargon—in any usage in commerce for the weight of goods.  That is what is properly required by our laws.  Fortunately, nobody ever gave your confused physics teachers (are you now one of them yourself?) any say-so in what this weight means.

 * There is no place anywhere where it is legal to buy and sell goods by the newton. We do it by the kilogram, or in some places by the pound, which has been legally defined as an exact fraction of a kilogram in the United States for 115 years, and throughout the world for the last half-century as exactly 0.45359237 kg.  This should not change if we ever buy and sell goods on the Moon or Mars or whatever; it is quite proper and legitimate, as I said.  The prices might be different because of the law of supply and demand, transportation costs, etc.—but the units in which that weight is measured will remain the same.  But you already know that; you talked about a "tonne" (a unit acceptable for use with SI when and only when it is used as a unit of mass) of lead.  It is a "unit of weight"; but while the tonne-force and the related kilogram-force were the primary units used to measure thrust of rockets in the Soviet Union until almost the time of its breakup, and which are still sometimes used today for that purpose by China and the European Space Agency, those are not the units which are acceptable for use with SI.

 * And it isn't really all that irrelevant. A variation of more than one part in 140 in the acceleration of free fall at various points on the surface of the Earth can be very significant, especially if you are talking about a 401.23 troy ounce bar of platinum.  But even in more mundane applications, our scales are calibrated and tested and certified on the basis of their accuracy in measuring mass, by testing them in the very place in which they are used, not on their accuracy in measuring force.  For a classical two-pan balance, of course, the adjustments occur naturally; in normal usage, there isn't any significant variation in the acceleration of gravity affecting one side of the balance as compared to the other, so the effect of those variations are naturally canceled out.  Those mass-measuring balances, of course, are the only weighing instruments mankind ever used for the first 7,500 years or so that they have been weighing things; even as recently as 200 years ago, you still could not buy any scale that wasn't a balance.  They didn't exist.

 * That is what weight always means, whenever anybody talks about
 * net weight (not a physics term)
 * troy weight (Unlike their avoirdupois cousins and unlike grams and kilograms, troy ounces have never spawned a unit of force of the same name. They are always, and always have been, units of mass.)
 * atomic weight (terminology in science)
 * molecular weight (no bullshit about this being obsolete, please—13,400,000 Google hits, including hundreds of examples right here on Wikipedia, say otherwise)
 * formula weight
 * dry weight
 * the pennyweight is always a unit of mass, never a unit of force
 * the hundredweight is always a unit of mass, even if you think hundred is written in digits as "112"
 * flyweight, bantamweight, cruiserweight, and the like
 * curb weight (even if you spell it kerb weight)
 * and many, many more
 * Those are all measurements of mass, not of force. All measured, and properly so, in kilograms or pounds, not in newtons or kilograms force or poundals or pounds-force.  Whenever we talk about body weight of humans in the medical sciences, or of other animals as well in the sciences of zoology and paleontology, those are measurements of mass, not of force.  It is only in the confused usage of physics textbooks and science museum exhibits where these are treated as measurements of force, but that misusage has so forcefully been put out to the public that many people really believe that their weight would change if they went to the moon.  But it doesn't change in the language of NASA's doctors having the astronauts weigh themselves in space; they use the word weight with the same meaning used by their earthbound counterparts.

 * I don't why you are taking a "tonne of lead" to the moon. Why are you trying to invent something, when we can look at some things which actually happened? When NASA tells us on their "Selected Mission Weights" page that the "weight" of the Apollo 11 Lunar Module at liftoff of its ascent stage was "10,776.6 lbs.", just what the hell do you suppose that means?
 * What was its mass?
 * How much force was it exerting due to gravity?
 * Enlighten us with your answers to those questions, please. In SI units if you like, or any other units you choose; but since this article is about the metric ton, maybe you could convert those two answers to metric tons and metric tons force, respectively. Gene Nygaard (talk) 09:05, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Your comments are instructive, and I concede that some of my reasoning may have been misinformed. However, I would like to offer instruction of my own and also to point out that regardless of the correctness of my reasoning, the Bureau International des Poids et Mesures defines both "kilogram" and "tonne" as units of mass.  I am inclined to assume, correctly or not, that they make the distinction for a reason (the distinction appears to be explained in a document my current web filter blocks, curse it... do a search on bipm.org for "weight").  Therefore, the first user was surely not confused. 168.9.120.8 (talk) 13:23, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

 * You are closer now. But what I was objecting to in what the firat poster here is is not the tonne is a "measurement of mass", but rather the "not of weight" part.  It was a non sequitur; one does not follow from the other.  And like I said, it is only the mass unit which is declared to be acceptable for use with SI; the same is true for the kilogram of course, but we have hundreds of articles on Wikipedia using the formerly (pre-1960) acceptable kilograms-force.

 * Note further that when tonnes-force are used (just look at the "what links here" in the redirects from tonne-force and tonnes-force), it is almost always used for something that is never called "weight" in anybody's book. For some different kind of force. (To get to those redirect pages, click on the link at "redirected  from" at the top of the page when you get there through the redirect, then click on What links here.)  So calling it (or the kilogram-force or the pound-force) a "unit of weight" would be objectionable for an entirely different reason; while they might occasionally be used for "weight" in its "force due to gravity meaning", they are most often used for entirely different kinds of force, for quantities that nobody ever calls "weight", such as thrust of a rocket engine or tension of a bicycle spoke.   Gene Nygaard (talk) 14:08, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Aha! Thank you for clarifying the matter.  On a not-quite-related topic, can you tell me whether "tonne" is a homophone with "ton"?  I'm not sure that I've ever heard any term used orally except "metric ton." 168.9.120.8 (talk) 14:26, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Sometimes yes, sometimes no. I'm in the U.S. too, but I've heard it about three different ways on Canadian radio and television. I'm no good at indicating what those pronunciations are, however--one is sort of like the first syllable of "tawny" as I pronounce it. Gene Nygaard (talk) 15:47, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

"Kilokilogram"
From the article:
 * The proper SI unit for a tonne would be a "kilokilogram" (the kilogram is the basic unit, not the gram), but this term is never used in practice.

This sounds fishy to me. A gram is a gram, not a "millikilogram", and a milligram is a milligram, not a "microkilogram". Unless a reliable source is given for this sentence, I'm going to delete it soon. —Bkell (talk) 13:06, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Okay, I'm going to change "kilokilogram" back to "megagram" (in effect undoing this edit). "Kilokilogram" was added by an anonymous user with no justification or sources cited. —Bkell (talk) 13:09, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 * As I recall, the anonymous user was me. I must have forgotten to sign in. The kilogram is still the basic unit of mass in the SI system (see any book on physics). I'm changing it back. The confusion arises, of course, because the kilogram alone of all the basic units, has a prefix. Cheers Io 17:44, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * On second thoughts, let it stand. It is adequately explained as 1000 kilograms in the article. But a megagram is definitely not a standard word for any amount of mass. Whoever wrote the original article was probably confusing the SI with the cgs-system. As for references, let's see: Will the Handbook of Physics by Benenson, Harris, Stöcker and Lutz, Springer 2002, page 1125, translated from the 4. ed. of Taschenbuch der Physik, edited by Horst Stöcker do? Cheers Io 17:53, 16 May 2007 (UTC)
 * I can't say i've ever seen either megagram or kilokilogram used before but doubling up prefixes certainly seems stranger to me than the unusual prefix-unit combination of megagram. As Bkell said we don't call a gram a milikilogram or call a milligram a microkilogram. One physics textbook does not standard terminology make. Unless the SI standard has something explicit to say about this or there is evidence of widespread usage of one or both of the terms I don't think either should be mentioned in this article. Plugwash 00:05, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Ok i've just checked the SI site and it clearly states that names for mass units should be made by applying prefixes to gram to to kilogram. Plugwash 00:34, 25 June 2007 (UTC)
 * Megagram(me) or Mg, see SI prefix, would be quite acceptable but so is tonne (t). The latter for convenience's sake. Peter Horn 20:14, 16 August 2007 (UTC)
 * Actually there could be conflict over Tonne and Metric Ton. Megagram(me) or even Mg instead.SirChan (talk) 02:22, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

"Spelling"
"Though the spelling tonne predates the introduction of the SI system in 1960, it is now used as the standard spelling for the metric mass measurement in English."

What an odd sentence. Why should the SI system have any bearing on language spelling? The sentence almost implies to me that the author was expecting the spelling of the word to be redefined by some sort of committee on weights and measures. Why not write this ....?

"The spelling tonne predates the introduction of the SI system in 1960, and is now used as the standard spelling for the metric mass measurement in English."

Crysta1c1ear 17:03, 24 June 2007 (UTC)

 * This sentence ignores NIST's (U.S.A.) preference for "Metric Ton." It should be modified to describe it's use in non-U.S. English at least. SirChan (talk) 02:27, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Wrong approach
I believe that the article has approached the subject backwards. It primarily describes this unit as a tonne (along with the title) while leaving the metric ton and megagram as footnotes (which redirects to tonne). It should be addressed as a megagram and then mentioning the colloquial use of the tonne and metric ton in order to be free from (allegations of) cultural bias.SirChan (talk) 21:00, 7 April 2008 (UTC)

 * I agree, but for a different reason. A person who has taken the trouble to learn what gram means and what mega- means should be allowed to make use of that knowledge by always referring to masses in the vicinty of the mass of an automobile with the word megagram. Forcing a person to learn yet another strange unit (tonne) places an unfair burden on readers. --Gerry Ashton (talk) 23:58, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

 * I agree also. If there's no other indication, should we start a megagram page with this one linked to it or should it be instead this page moved to megagram with subsections for tonnes?

--Cpt ricard (talk) 15:07, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

SI prefixes and the tonne

 * What did you do to the this article with this series of edits. Here’s what the article used to look like before you ripped out the SI prefixes. The BIPM in their CIPM, 1967: Recommendation 2 didn’t say the SI prefixes can’t be used with tonne. In fact, they didn’t say anything about the tonne. Recommendation 2 was clearly addressing the issue that you attach SI prefixes to the gram and not the kilogram. Further, SI brochure, Table 6 (Section 4.1) (“Non-SI units accepted for use with the SI, and units based on fundamental constants”) specifically includes the tonne—along with the liter—among the non-SI units that are acceptable for use with the SI . That means with the SI prefixes too. As you no doubt know (or should know), prefixed forms of the liter (one of the other non-SI units that are acceptable for use with the SI) are perfectly well accepted throughout the world (see Litre. Are you going to go and delete the SI table from the Liter article too? In fact, the BIPM, in their French language Réglementation Métrologique (1970) (103 KB download, here) specifically acknowledges that the prefixed forms of tonne are “becoming recognized.” And that was back in 1970! You need to settle down and familiarize yourself with the world of the SI before performing such radical changes. Greg L (talk) 03:36, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

P.S. Never mind. I see you just reverted yourself. Greg L (talk) 03:38, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Millier/tonneau
''In the USA this unit was defined in 1866[3] as a millier or a tonneau (both French words). This measure was used in Europe centuries earlier. '' - since the metric system didn't exist "centuries earlier" than 1866, what were these words used to refer to? --Random832 (contribs) 03:55, 4 July 2008 (UTC)

Femottonne
Googling for (Femtotonne -attotonne -"The symbol ft is shared with that for") gives no results. Therefore I've removed the reference. Rich Farmbrough, 19:25 15 July 2008 (GMT).

 * I vaguely remember adding that remark, probably because I noticed the symbol ft used for femtotonne in the table and found it confusing. I don't feel strongly about it, but I don't see any harm in pointing out the ambiguity to the reader. Thunderbird2 (talk) 12:57, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

Confusing sentence
This is so close to the tonne that many people draw little distinction and continue to use the old spelling.--Filll (talk | wpc ) 12:48, 20 July 2008 (UTC)

MT
Does MT refer to tonne? in here should it be interpreted like metric tonne or mega tonne? Will 11:59, 26 September 2008 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.48.234.199 (talk)

 * According to the "technical notes" link on that page (bottom left) MT means metric ton. Apparently that organization has decided to completely ignore international standards about when to use upper and lower case letters. --Gerry Ashton (talk) 15:38, 26 September 2008 (UTC)

 * In a practical sense, seeing use of "MT" in the wild gives it meaning, and should be represented in wiki, if only to reduce confusion and help to sell the use of proper units. Indeed, I'm writing this today because saw a vendor offering annual production of 35,000MT of bulk solids, and I needed to know if these were meant as mega- or metric- tons. I'm going with the latter, simply because "megaton" in another vernacular refers to the explosive yield of ICBMs. (And of course MT is also properly used for Megateslas...)--204.44.137.252 (talk) 18:20, 8 March 2021 (UTC)

Inconsistent redirects
Kiloton and Megaton go to TNT equivalent. Gigaton goes to Tonne. Teraton, Petaton, and Exaton all have tiny stubs. These should probably all point to the same place, but which article? --Suffusion of Yellow (talk) 01:04, 18 October 2009 (UTC)
 * Possibly all could redirect to Tonne, and we could have a hatnote mentioning TNT equivalent. I think tonne always refers to 1000 kg, but word usage sometimes talks about kilotons to mean TNT, without explicitly stating it.  —fudoreaper (talk) 00:06, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
 * These units are used virtually exclusively for TNT equivalent, or not at all (exaton), so this is the more suitable redirect. I think the stubs should be redirects, maybe to Kiloton or TNT equivalent. Pol098 (talk) 13:22, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Pronunciation
"Ton" and "tonne" may be pronounced identically in some countries, but from where I come (Australia) we have been taught that there is a difference in pronunciation between the two words. My second edition of Macquarie Dictionary gives the phonetic spelling of "tonne" with a short "o" sound, meaning tonne rhymes with "john". The latest version of Macquarie Dictionary online also uses this pronunciation. This probably should be pointed out in the article. Wcp07 (talk) 05:35, 17 July 2011 (UTC)
 * If this is general usage, it could be added to the article. Pol098 (talk) 18:17, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * In UK, I've heard "tonne" pronounced as "tunny" by chemical engineers to distinguish the metric unit from the long ton. Otherwise, "tonne" is pronounced exactly the same as "ton" (i.e like "tun"). Can anyone find something WP:RS for this? Narky Blert (talk) 23:49, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * It *is* general usage in Australia. The pronunciation was recommended by the Metric Conversion Board when Australia metricated in the 1970s. I have added a citation to the article. Paul Foxworthy (talk) 22:53, 31 October 2021 (UTC)

UK usage
On 8 March 2012 Google searches on two newspaper websites for "tonne" "metric tonne" "metric tonne" "ton" -"metric ton" (including quotes to force exact match only) gave the following results.

"Ton" alone was more often used in a sporting context on a quick scan (100 runs in cricket, £100 bets), making it difficult to gauge how often "ton" is used as a weight. "Long ton" and "short ton" had about 10 hits in all over both papers. "Metric ton" was often used in news items from other countries, notably the US: "NASA has been watching the 6-ton (5.4-metric ton) satellite closely" and may be transcribed from international agency items and press releases.

This was a totally random search, I don't have any "position" to "support" but was trying to ascertain the facts. [Note added later: Above edited slightly for clarity about use of quotes. I should have done similar searches for the plural forms "tons", etc., but the picture is pretty clear from this and the contribution below from government sites.] Pol098 (talk) 14:39, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

 * I don't think that Google searches of 2 newspaper website reflects UK usage at all. For one thing, newspapers have "style guides" which dictate how they represent units of measure, which the UK population at large are not constrained by. I just did similar searches of all ".uk" domains and of just the ".gov.uk" domain, and got the following results:
 * {| class="wikitable"

! !! .uk !! .gov.uk
 * Tonne || 13,600,000 || 317,000
 * Metric ton || 187,000 || 2,690
 * Metric tonne || 42,300 || 1,770
 * Ton || 28,400,000 || 435,000
 * }
 * -- de Facto (talk). 15:19, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Ton || 28,400,000 || 435,000
 * }
 * -- de Facto (talk). 15:19, 8 March 2012 (UTC)
 * -- de Facto (talk). 15:19, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

 * Useful additional information! One problem with newspaper sites, perhaps less so for government sites, is that the same article often appears lots of times (identical text in Google list). But the interesting conclusion is that the two searches give qualitatively very similar results: ton by itself is used a great deal, in most cases more than tonne; tonne is used a lot; metric ton is not used much (1% or less than tonne), and metric tonne even less. The use of "ton" for 100 probably skews the newspaper sites more. As appended to my original comment, I didn't think to do plurals. Pol098 (talk) 18:13, 8 March 2012 (UTC)

Missing some usages
Current text - "For multiples of the tonne, it is more usual to speak of thousands or millions of tonnes. Kilotonne, megatonne, and gigatonne are more usually used for the energy of nuclear explosions and other events, often loosely as approximate figures."

Gt and Mt are used routinely to describe units of carbon dioxide (GtCO2), e.g. in IPCC texts, country statements to UNFCCC and so on. Pg (rather than Gt) is often used to describe units of carbon (in journal papers).

So it is odd to see these units being dismissed as only used to measure energy. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Flit (talk • contribs) 21:14, 17 October 2015 (UTC)

"Short" and "Long" ton should appear in the lead section
I think that the current lead section text should be changed to something like for the following reasons: Your reversion summary seems to assume that enwiki is just for US/UK readers - I think that it isn't. Petr Matas 16:49, 7 December 2015 (UTC)
 * "1.10 tons (US) or 0.984 tons (imperial)"
 * "1.10 short tons (US) or 0.984 long tons (imperial)" or
 * "1.10 US/short tons or 0.984 imperial/long tons",
 * The corresponding article titles are Short ton and Long ton.
 * We should give as much context as possible, i.e. short=US, long=imperial.
 * Citing from Short ton: "In order to avoid confusion, especially in international environments, it is recommended to always use the full name: "short ton", "long ton" or "metric tonne"." According to my knowledge, Wikipedia is an international environment.
 * The text in parentheses does not appear in hovercards, so if we hide the words "short" and "long", the hovercard shows just "1.10 tons or 0.984 tons", which is confusing.

What rhymes with tonne?
Programme Personne (not used in English spelling) Gramme Steppe (rare form of step) Matte (rare form of mat) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.106.142.94 (talk) 03:51, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
 * strut, bud, dull, gun. See Help:IPA for English, and the very start of the article. --Nigelj (talk) 09:59, 24 April 2016 (UTC)

 * Ton. - BilCat (talk) 10:05, 24 April 2016 (UTC)
 * In UK - bun, dun, fun, gun, Hun, nun, pun, run, spun, stun, sun, ton, tun, won. I may have missed some. Narky Blert (talk) 23:53, 4 August 2017 (UTC)
 * Ah, so you actually pronounce it with "ah"; while Russians pronounce their word, "tonna" with "oh"... that's confusing... Uchyot (talk) 08:24, 16 March 2021 (UTC)

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Temperature Dependence
Since the density of water changes with temperature, perhaps it would be helpful to say at which temperature the mass of one tonne is identical to that of one cubic meter of water. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.166.59.134 (talk • contribs) 11:32, 25 July 2019 (UTC)
 * True. If you knew what temperature it is you could have changed it. I'll see if I can find it anywhere. JBW (talk) Formerly known as JamesBWatson 20:53, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
 * It turns out it is at 4°C, so I'll put that in the article. JBW (talk) Formerly known as JamesBWatson 09:05, 24 September 2019 (UTC)

Picture
I don't really like the article's "concreete block" picture. It's gloomy "greenish grey/gray", like boring concrete structure after rain always is. Uchyot (talk) 08:33, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , feel free to offer an alternative. -- DeFacto (talk). 08:39, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * Frankly, I wanted to alter the existing picture: crop it, remove grass, maybe add a "blue tint" filter. Uchyot (talk) 12:19, 16 March 2021 (UTC)
 * , you can upload a new image based on a current one - visit Commons to find out how. -- DeFacto (talk). 07:32, 17 March 2021 (UTC)
 * I think the image should not be cropped, because the context is needed to show the size of the block. The volume of it is the main point of the picture. A tonne equals this amount of concrete. Volker Siegel (talk) 20:07, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Relative Mass
The term "relative mass" is used describing the mass of a container filled with water. The term usually is short for "relative atomic mass", which is unrelated to the context. The mass also does not seem to be specified relative to some other mass. I think the term "relative" should be removed from the sentence, but I might be missing something.

Full context: "An English tun (an old wine cask volume measurement equivalent to approximately 954 litres) of wine has a relative mass of approximately 954 kg if full of pure water, a little less for wine."

The sentence has other problems (the tun seems to have no mass), and does not add much, I'll remove it. Is there an actual meaning in the "relative"? Is it a reason to restore the sentence? Volker Siegel (talk) 21:19, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

Things you should do to cure SunBurn
Well….. In my constant you should apply apply Aloe Vera and then take a nice cool bath. Try it for a week or so.. 43.250.241.216 (talk) 16:24, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

New prefixes
Editors might like to join the discussion at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Physics. NebY (talk) 23:20, 18 November 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tonne


text:
Autonomous oblast

An autonomous oblast is an autonomous entity within the state which is on the oblast (province) level of the overall administrative subdivision.

There were autonomous oblasts of the Soviet Union and later some federal subjects of Russia were autonomous oblasts: the one remaining is the Jewish Autonomous Oblast. Eastern Rumelia was an autonomous province (oblast in Bulgarian, one of its official languages) of the Ottoman Empire. Serb Autonomous Regions are known as oblasts.

title: Autonomous oblast


text: File:RNLittorio.jpg

title: File:RNLittorio.jpg


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Maryland Conservation Council

The Maryland Conservation Council (MCC) is a coalition of environmental organizations that has been active since the early 1970s. MCC aims to protect the environment in the Chesapeake Bay watershed, with special attention to Maryland. During the Maryland General Assembly legislative session (January through April each year), MCC publishes a weekly legislative update, Conservation Reports. One of MCC's earliest projects involved the protection of Cove Point in Calvert County, Maryland, which resulted in the formation of Cove Point Natural Heritage Trust.

The MCC's Goals are to protect
 * Scenic wild rivers and Appalachian hardwood forests in the Allegheny Plateau of Western Maryland;
 * Sandy beaches on the barrier islands of the Atlantic Ocean with productive yet fragile bays behind them;
 * Cypress swamps along an ancient black water river and vast wetlands providing winter habitat for migrating waterfowl on the Coastal Plain of the Eastern Shore;
 * Geologically significant features and species rich forests and rivers in the Piedmont;
 * The Chesapeake Bay and its tributaries which once produced vast quantities of aquatic resources.

Conservationists today are faced with a serious dilemma. They are certain that the use of fossil fuels is leading toward a global catastrophe. But at the same time they are increasingly aware that many types of renewable energy, because of the large amount of land that they require, will have a seriously detrimental impact on the natural world, especially if their use expands.

The MCC has concluded that nuclear energy, which produces no carbon dioxide or other greenhouse gases, (1) also has a smaller footprint or impact on biological diversity compared to wind, solar, or biomass; in some cases, orders of magnitude smaller. When cost is stripped of various forms of governmental assistance, and the actual, not theoretical, effectiveness is used to calculate the size of the installation needed to generate a given amount of electricity, nuclear power is the least expensive.

The MCC has also concluded that commercial reactors of the type now used in the United States have a sound safety record, even considering the accident at Three Mile Island (TMI), and that there is no credible evidence that there has been harm to health by these reactors. MCC further concluded that the hazards of transporting used nuclear fuel have been badly exaggerated, and that recent proposals about the storage of used fuel will reduce the technological difficulty of construction a long-term repository.

The MCC's Board voted at its November 2007 meeting to support Constellation Energy Group’s proposal to build a third nuclear reactor at its Calvert Cliffs Nuclear Power Plant in Charles County.

title: Maryland Conservation Council


text:
Radical Routes

Radical Routes is a UK-based network of housing co-ops. The organisation supports new and established co-ops through loan finance, training workshops, practical support, and national gatherings.

History
Radical Routes emerged in 1986 from a network of people in London and Hull who wanted to develop workers' co-operatives. The network agreed its common aims and adopted the name Radical Routes in 1988, and became incorporated as Radical Routes Limited in 1992. In 1998 Rootstock Limited was incorporated as an investment scheme supporting Radical Routes co-operatives. The original house in Hockley was set up as the 'New Education Housing Co-op'.

According to Rootstock, between 1991 and 2012 Radical Routes made over sixty loans to member co-ops – totaling over £1m – with no co-operatives defaulting on loan payments. These loans have typically been used by member housing co-ops, in addition to finance from traditional lenders, to buy property.

Work
Radical Routes provides small loans (up to about £50,000) to member co-operatives. Decisions on making loans are made collectively by other member co-operatives, this has been described as "peer-group loan appraisal".

Radical Routes publishes booklets on subjects such as How to set up a Housing Co-operative and How to set up a Worker Co-operative.

With Cooperatives UK they launched proposals for an independent co-operative regulator after the government announced that it would be abolishing the FSA. Previously the FSA had regulated co-operatives, which were registered as industrial and provident societies.

Radical Routes is developing a ‘co-op cluster’ model for co-op housing with groups of housing co-ops combining their assets to buy new properties outright, eliminating mortgage interest.

Membership
Member co-operatives are expected to commit to a share of Radical Routes' workload as volunteers, and work toward radical social change.

At January 2024 the organisation has 30 members: 26 housing co-ops and 4 worker co-ops.

Limitations
A 2014 round table report by Radical Routes and Friends Provident Foundation identified carpet bagging, among other things, as a systemic weakness within the existing housing co-op framework. 'Carpet bagging' refers to established co-ops significantly reducing their rents or, rarely, selling their property for private gain. The report explores ways in which the systematic weaknesses might be addressed, mentioning the Mietshäuser Syndikat model as having provably solved the carpet bagging issue.

title: Radical Routes


text:
Lamphun

Lamphun (ลำพูน, ) is a town (thesaban mueang) in northern Thailand, capital of Lamphun Province. It covers the whole tambon Nai Mueang of Mueang Lamphun district. As of 2006 it has a population of 14,030. Lamphun lies 665 km north of Bangkok and 19 km south of Chiang Mai.

History
Lamphun was founded by Queen Chama Thevi as the capital of the Haripunchai Kingdom, the last and most northerly Mon kingdom in the area which now forms Thailand. Around 25 km south of Chiang Mai, it was constructed in the shape of a conch shell, following the Khuang River on its east side and divided by moats at the remaining points of the compass.

Queen Chama Thevi is remembered in the wat of her name, which is said to be the resting place of her ashes. Near the town's main morning market in the south-west of the city is a statue of the queen at which offerings are still made today by citizens.

While still living in the north King Mangrai was visited by some merchants from the Mon Kingdom, and hearing of the wealth of Lamphun he determined to conquer it, even against the advice of his councillors.

As it was deemed impossible to take the city by force, he sent a skillful merchant called Ai Fa to gain the confidence of the King Yi Ba, and in time he became the chief minister and managed to undermine the king's authority.

In 1281, with the people in a state of discontent, Mangrai defeated the Mon Kingdom, and added the city and its wealth to his kingdom, while Yi Ba, the last king of Hariphunchai, was forced to flee south to Lampang. Lamphun was then incorporated into the new Lanna Kingdom. Ai Fa was subsequently appointed king, and King Mangrai began building the fortress Wiang Kum Kam as his new capital.

Lamphun is host to one of northern Thailand's most important temples, Wat Phra That Hariphunchai, featured on the reverse of the one-satang coin. The phra that in the title indicates the presence of a Buddha relic, in this case one of his hairs, which was interred in the chedi in 897, which is probably the founding date of the wat.

The town is surrounded by lush countryside punctuated by rice fields and orchards of the popular fruit, longan, which is celebrated in a festival every August.

Geography
The town is in the Ping River valley, between the Thanon Thong Chai Range on the west and the Khun Tan Range in the east.

title: Lamphun


text:
HMS Ambush

Three vessels of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Ambush.

 * HMS Ambush (1814), or Ambush No. 5, was an American gunboat (Gunboat No. 5), launched in 1805, captured at the Battle of Lake Borgne in 1814, and sold in 1815.

Two were submarines:
 * HMS Ambush (P418), launched in 1945, was an Amphion-class submarine.
 * HMS Ambush (S120), launched in 2011, is an Astute-class submarine submarine.

title: HMS Ambush


text:
Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing

A Palestinian suicide bombing at a pizzeria in downtown Jerusalem on 9 August 2001 killed 16 people, including seven children and a pregnant woman. A further 130 were wounded. The attack occurred during the Second Intifada.

Attack
At the time of the bombing, the Jerusalem branch of the Sbarro pizza restaurant chain was located at the corner of King George Street and Jaffa Road in Jerusalem, one of the busiest pedestrian crossings in the region. Although not required to do so, owner Noam Amar added extra support columns on the advice of city inspectors.

Ahlam Tamimi, who was charged as an accomplice, scouted for a target before leading Izz al-Din Shuheil al-Masri, the suicide bomber, to the Sbarro restaurant. They arrived just before 2:00 p.m., when the restaurant was filled with customers, "dozens of women, children and babies", and pedestrian traffic outside was at its peak. Tamimi departed before Al-Masri, thought to be carrying a rigged guitar case or wearing an explosive belt weighing five to 10 kilograms, containing explosives, nails, nuts and bolts, detonated his bomb.

Chaviv Avrahami, who saw the scene of the attack after the bombing, recounted: "I heard a tremendous explosion, and I was thrown up a metre into the air. I knew immediately that it was a bomb attack, and a catastrophic one. There were people – babies – thrown through the window and covered with blood. The whole street was covered with blood and bodies: the dead and the dying." Naor Shara, a soldier who witnessed the attack, said, "The worst thing I saw, which I think will haunt me all my life, is a baby that was sitting in a stroller outside a shop and was dead. After the explosion, the baby's mother came out of the store and started screaming hysterically."

Casualties
The dead included 14 Israelis, one pregnant American, and one Brazilian. Additionally, 130 were injured. One victim, Chana Nachenberg, remained hospitalized in a persistent vegetative state more than 20 years after the attack until finally dying of her injuries on 31 May 2023. She was 31-years-old at the time of the bombing. Her daughter, who was two years old at the time, was one of the few in the restaurant who was not injured.

Yocheved Shoshan, 10, was killed, and her 15-year-old sister Miriam was severely injured with 60 nails lodged in her body, a hole in her right thigh, third degree burns on 40 percent of her body, and a ruptured spleen.

Mordechai and Tzira Schijveschuurder, both children of Holocaust survivors, were killed along with three of their children. Two other daughters, Leah, 11, and Chaya, 8, were critically injured. The family was of Dutch origin.

Perpetrators
Both Hamas and the Islamic Jihad Movement in Palestine initially claimed responsibility, with Hamas saying that the attack was in response to Israel's assassination ten days earlier in Nablus of the two leading Hamas commanders Jamal Mansour and Omar Mansour as well as six civilians including two children.

The suicide bomber who died in the course of carrying out the attack was later identified to be Izz al-Din Shuheil al-Masri (عز الدين شهيل المصري) from the Palestinian West Bank town of Aqabah. Izz al-Masri was 22 at the time and the son of a successful restaurant owner, and from an affluent land-owning family.

The person who constructed the explosives was Abdallah Barghouti. For his part in the bombing and a string of other attacks, in which 67 civilians were killed and 500 injured, he received 67 life sentences on 30 November 2004.

Ahlam Tamimi
Izz al-Masri was escorted to the restaurant by Ahlam Tamimi, a 20-year-old female university student and part-time journalist, who had disguised herself as a Jewish tourist for the occasion. She later commented that she was not sorry for what she had done and does not recognize Israel's existence. "Despite the fact that I'm sentenced to 16 life sentences I know that we will become free from Israeli occupation and then I will also be free from the prison," she said. When she first learned from a journalist who was interviewing her in jail that she had murdered eight children, not just three as she had initially believed, she just smiled broadly and continued with the interview.

Tamimi was released in October 2011 in exchange for the release of captive Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit.

Aftermath
In response to the attack, Israel shut down the unofficial Palestinian "foreign office" in Jerusalem, at the Orient House.

In 2001, the family of Malka Chana (Malki) Roth, a 15-year-old victim of the attack, founded The Malki Foundation, a charity organization that supports families of children with disabilities. All services and equipment are provided at no cost to the families and people of all religions and backgrounds are eligible for assistance. Her parents, Arnold and Frimet Roth, participated in a mass protest in Europe alongside the families of other terror victims in support of the legality the Israeli West Bank barrier. Arnold remarked, "Do I feel bad about the destruction the fence is causing? I do. But do not compare the murder of my daughter to the inability of a Palestinian to get to work by 9:00 A.M."

The incident inspired the Belzberg family to establish the ONE Family Fund, a charity that provides assistance to victims of terrorist attacks targeting Israel. The husband of Shoshana Greenbaum, the pregnant woman killed in the attack, organized a group called "Partners in Kindness" and writing a column called "A Daily Dose of Kindness". He explained that he made these efforts in attempt to "improve the world".

After the suicide bombing, Palestinian university students at the An-Najah University in the West Bank city of Nablus created an exhibition celebrating the first anniversary of the Second Intifada. The exhibit's main attraction was a room-sized re-enactment of the bombing at Sbarro. The installation featured broken furniture splattered with fake blood and human body parts. The entrance to the exhibition was illustrated with a mural depicting the bombing. The exhibit was later shut down by Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat.

Reactions
Foreign Minister Peres said that "If the Palestinian Authority had acted with the necessary determination and carried out preventive detentions of Hamas terrorists and their operators, the murders today in Jerusalem would have been prevented."

Within the Palestinian Territories, Hamas claimed responsibility for the bombing which it praised as a "retaliation of the Palestinian people" against Israel. President of the Palestine Liberation Organization and of the Palestinian Authority Yasser Arafat condemned the "bombing attack ... in West Jerusalem and I denounce all acts that harm civilians." but the Palestinian Authority blamed Israeli prime minister Ariel Sharon for provoking the attack and stated it held him "fully responsible for what happened. The assassinations, the killings and the terrorism that he has practised and escalated in recent weeks led to this result." The following day, the PA claimed that they had arrested two people "in connection with the Sbarro bombing".

U.S. President George W. Bush expressed condolences and stated, "I deplore and strongly condemn the terrorist bombing in downtown Jerusalem today. My heartfelt sympathies and those of the American people are with the victims of this terrible tragedy and their families." Bush demanded Arafat to "condemn this horrific terrorist attack, act now to arrest and bring to justice those responsible, and take immediate, sustained action to prevent future terrorist attacks."

According to the U.N. press release, "UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan condemned today's terror attack by a suicide bomber in Jerusalem. He deplored all acts of terror and is deeply disturbed by the terrible loss of life." According to the Belgian EU Presidency, "The Presidency of the European Union unreservedly condemns the bombing of a Jerusalem shopping centre today, 9 August. It abhors this cowardly act which mainly claimed the lives of innocent civilians."

2011 prisoner exchange
During the 2011 Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange, relatives of the victims of the bombing vehemently protested the release of Ahlam Tamimi, who chose the Sbarro restaurant as a target and drove the bomber to the location.

Arnold and Frimet Roth circulated a petition against Tamimi's inclusion in the Gilad Shalit prisoner exchange and also wrote a letter to Prime Minister Binyamin Netanyahu urging him to exclude her from the list. Frimet Roth said in October, "We feel desperate. We beg Mr. Netanyahu to grant us a few minutes of his time and hear us out. In any sane country with a fair judicial system, even paroled murderers are not released without granting the victims' loved ones a chance to address the parole board." Chaya Schijveschuurder, whose parents and three siblings were killed in the attack, protested with a sign that read, "My parents' blood screams from the grave!" Her brother, Shvuel, vandalized the Yitzhak Rabin memorial and commented, "My opinions are all right compared to [Chaya's] and compared to how she feels about the deal. She was badly wounded in the [Sbarro] attack, she feels that releasing the terrorist is as if she were raped and then the rapist went and murdered her parents and is now being released. For her it's like being raped twice."

title: Sbarro restaurant suicide bombing


text:
Newbottle, Tyne and Wear

Newbottle is a village in the City of Sunderland in Tyne and Wear, England. The village is situated between Durham 8 mi and Sunderland is 5 mi. It was historically a part of County Durham.

Location
Neighbouring villages and areas include Grasswell (between Newbottle and Houghton le Spring), Shiney Row (between Newbottle and Washington, Tyne and Wear), Herrington Burn (between Newbottle and Shiney Row) and Success/Philadelphia (between Newbottle and Herrington Burn).

The village is served by major road links with the A690 (to Durham/Sunderland) and A19 (to Teesside/North Tyneside) junctions one and a half miles to the east and the A1M (to Newcastle/the South) two and a half miles to the west near Chester-le-Street. Newbottle has a helicopter pad located at the bottom of Stadon Way near the entrance to Okerhampton Drive.

Etymology
The name Newbottle derives from the Saxon 'New Battle' meaning 'new settlement'. Newbottle village traces its roots to the year 1050, making it medieval in origin. The earliest mention of the town's name is in the Boldon Book in 1183 as 'Newbotill' and by reference to neighbouring Houghton-le-spring ('Hoctona'). An English transcription states:

 * "In Hoctona are thirteen cottagers, whose tenures, works and payments are like those of Newbotill; and three other half cottagers, who also work like the three half cottagers of Newbotill. Henry the greeve, holds two oxgangs of 24 acres for his service. The smith – 12 acres for his service. The carpenter holds a toft and 4 acres (16,000 m2) for his service. The punder (one who impounds straying animals) has 20 acres and the thraves of Hoctona, Wardon and Morton; he renders 60 hens and 300 eggs. The mills of Newbotill and Bidic, with half of Raynton Mill, pay XV marks. The demesne, consisting of four carucates, and the sheep pastures are in the hands of the lord."

History
In the 19th century there were three potteries, one belonging to the Broderick family. A corn mill was also in the village. Another name is the Russell family, who were believed to be solicitors of Sunderland and there is still a house named Russell today. In 1691, parts of Newbottle called Hall Moor and Dubmire were divided and the tenants all claimed leasehold. There were 16 pits recorded by Lord Lumley as the "Newbottle Group" on 19 August 1762. The Collieries belonging to the Nesham family were sold to the Earl of Durham for £70,000 in 1822. The last of these ceased mining in 1956.

One of the Nesham collieries, the Success pit was the scene of a disaster on Friday 2 June 1815. The pit had reached coal at 108 fathom. The explosion was obvious to the men above ground by a large column of dust rising from the pit. No flames were observed, the flame front seems to have been stopped by a large wagon blocking one of the roadways. Early reports blamed a sudden inrush of firedamp from old workings which pitmen had inadvertently broken into. Not all the men were killed by the blast. A number attempted to reach the shaft but were overcome by afterdamp, some even surviving to reach the surface before succumbing to its effects. Out of 72 men and boys underground only 15 survived; 57 were killed.

The local church, St Matthews, dates from 1886, having replaced a previous chapel which was built in 1850. The village centre is a designated conservation area and has stone built housing. Herrington Country Park provides walking, picnics, model boating and cycling and is a mile on foot to the north of the village accessible by public footpath.

The village is situated in the Copt Hill ward on a predominantly Labour run council, however since the local elections of May 2007 the ward itself is served by an Independent councillor. Along with many other communities the local economy has changed over the past generation. The Co-operative store and Post Office have closed and the land and property developed.

Newbottle has been featured in the media since 2005 North East News, BBC Look North, Durham FM, BBC Radio Newcastle, Sunderland Echo, The Journal, Evening Chronicle and The Guardian as 7,000 trees, which are part of the Great North Forest are being threatened to be chopped down to make way for 20 new football pitches, car parking and infrastructure. As a result of this threat protestors have been campaigning "Save Our Trees!". On 29 June 2006 a 'chain saw' gang acting on the instructions of developers moved into the wood and began felling trees. This action caused the local community to apply to the high court in London for an emergency injunction. Mr Justice Bennett granted the high court injunction. In 2009 the plans were allowed to go ahead and have been ongoing since January 2010, with expected completion around September. After delays, the action was started and in April 2011 a brand new Football Association sponsored and endorsed football training facility was opened. Former England player Sir Trevor Brooking and Sunderland AFC player Jordan Henderson attended the opening. The article was featured on the front page of the newspaper Sunderland Echo.

Facilities
The village is served by Newbottle Workingmen's Club CIU, The Sun Inn and the Queen's Head public houses. There is also an Italian restaurant and a Chinese takeaway. There is a newsagent and a Foodstore/General dealer. Newbottle has one school, Newbottle Primary Academy which has more than 450 students from around the catchment area.

People
People to have lived in the village include footballers David Meyler, Chris Turner, Thomas Sorensen and Colin Todd, and singer Bryan Ferry.

title: Newbottle, Tyne and Wear


text:
Man o' war

Man o' War was a thoroughbred racehorse considered an all-time great.

Man o' War (or capitalization variations thereof) may also refer to:

Animals

 * Portuguese man o' war, a floating marine animal found in the Atlantic that resembles a jellyfish
 * Man o' war, alternate name for the magnificent frigatebird
 * Man-of-war fish, a driftfish known for living in the tentacles of the Portuguese man o' war.

Places

 * Man O' War Bay (disambiguation)
 * Man-O-War Cay, an island in the Bahamas

Other uses

 * Man-of-war (aka Man o' war), a heavily armed warship from the 16th to the 19th centuries
 * Man-O-War GFC, a Gaelic football club
 * Manowar, a heavy metal band
 * Man o' War Boulevard, Lexington, Kentucky, U.S.
 * Man o' War, a former Central of Georgia passenger train operating from Atlanta to Columbus, Georgia
 * Man O' War (game), a naval wargame by Games Workshop
 * Man O' War, a brand of cigar manufactured by A. J. Fernandez Cigars
 * Gigabolt Man-O-War, a boss character in the video game Mega Man X8
 * Man O' War (paramilitary), voluntary paramilitary organization in Nigeria.

title: Man o' war


text:
HMS Artful

Two submarines of the Royal Navy have been named HMS Artful:

 * HMS Artful (P456), an Amphion-class submarine launched in 1947.
 * HMS Artful (S121), an Astute-class submarine launched in 2014.

title: HMS Artful


text:
James Coleman (Irish artist)

James Coleman (born 1941) is an Irish installation and video artist associated with slide-tape works: sequences of still images fading one into the other with synchronized sound. Often, social situations are depicted with a precision which, paradoxically, creates a narrative ambiguity. There is often a focus in his works on how time can warp subjective experience, and how this subjectivity is indispensable to an understanding of how the photographic image accrues meaning.

James Coleman was born in Ballaghaderreen, County Roscommon. He studied at the National College of Art and Design, Dublin, and at University College, Dublin and then spent time in Paris and London before moving to Milan, where he stayed for twenty years. He now lives and works in Ireland. He represented Ireland in the 1973 Paris Biennale. His many exhibitions include a large retrospective shown in a number of major galleries throughout Dublin in 2009, and retrospectives at Reina Sofia, Madrid (2012), and at Centre Pompidou, Paris (2021).

He was conferred with the degree of Doctor of Fine Arts honoris causa by the National University of Ireland at NUI Galway in June 2006.

Work in collections

 * S.M.A.K. – Stedelijk Museum voor Actuele Kunst, Gent
 * Fondation Cartier pour l'art contemporain, Paris
 * Musée National d'Art Moderne, Paris
 * Museum Ludwig, Cologne
 * Irish Museum of Modern Art, Dublin
 * Museu d'Art Contemporani de Barcelona, Barcelona
 * Kunstmuseum Luzern, Luzern

title: James Coleman (Irish artist)