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Lynne Frederick

Lynne Frederick (25 July 1954 – 27 April 1994) was an English actress and model. In a career spanning ten years, she made over thirty appearances in film and television productions. She often played the girl next door and performed in a range of genres, from contemporary science fiction to slasher horror, romantic dramas, classic westerns, and occasional comedies, although her greater successes were in period films and costume dramas.

In 1980, after the death of her husband, Peter Sellers, she came to national attention over the nature of his controversial will, in which she was listed as the primary beneficiary. She was publicly criticised, ridiculed and perceived as a gold digger by the press and public. Her career and reputation never recovered from the backlash and she was subsequently blacklisted by Hollywood. She lived out the remainder of her years in California, and kept a low profile until her death in 1994.

In the decades since her death, Frederick has steadily established a posthumous cult following for her collection of work in motion pictures and television. Some of her better known performances include her roles in films such as Nicholas and Alexandra (1971), The Amazing Mr. Blunden (1972), Henry VIII and His Six Wives (1972), and Voyage of the Damned (1976). Other films of hers such as Vampire Circus (1971), Phase IV (1974), Four of the Apocalypse (1975), A Long Return (Largo retorno) (1975), and Schizo (1976) have all become underground hits or established a status as a cult film in their respective genres, contributing to the renewed interest in her life and career.

She was the first recipient of the award for Best New Coming Actress from the Evening Standard British Film Awards in 1973, for her performances in Henry VIII and His Six Wives (1972) and The Amazing Mr. Blunden (1972). She is one of only eight actresses, and the youngest, to hold this title.

Early life
Frederick was born in Hillingdon, Middlesex, to Andrew Frederick (1914–1983) and Iris C. Frederick (née Sullivan, 1928–2006). While she was very young, her father abandoned the family, and she was brought up by her mother and maternal grandmother, Cecilia. Lynne never knew or met her father, and had no personal relationships or connections with his side of the family. Although her mother was employed as a casting director for Thames Television, they often lived a frugal lifestyle. In her work, Iris gained a reputation for being a stern and imposing individual.

Frederick was brought up in Market Harborough in Leicestershire. She occasionally faced social stigma due to her parents' divorce. She attended Notting Hill and Ealing High School in London. Her original career choice was to become a schoolteacher of physics and mathematics.

1969–1974: Discovery and early roles
Frederick was discovered at the age of 15 by Hungarian-American actor and film director Cornel Wilde, who was a friend and colleague of her mother. Wilde had been looking for a young, unknown actress to star in his film adaptation of the best selling post-apocalyptic science fiction novel The Death of Grass. Wilde first saw her when she came to work with her mother to pose for some test shots, and he immediately was smitten by her beauty, charisma, and bubbly personality. Despite her having no previous experience in theatre, films, or commercials, Wilde offered her the role without an audition.

When No Blade of Grass (1970) was released, the film received mixed reviews from critics. Notwithstanding the lukewarm reception of the film, Frederick became an overnight sensation, and her career quickly took off. Represented by the talent agency Hazel Malone Management, Frederick became a teen idol among the British public in the early 1970s, and was seen as the next Hayley Mills and Olivia Hussey. She was regularly featured in newspaper articles and fashion magazines as a model and cover girl. For a spread in the September 1971 edition of British Vogue, she was photographed by Patrick Lichfield. In addition, she appeared in several television commercials for products that included Camay soap. Frederick then signed a cosmetics contract with Mennen, and became a spokesmodel for Protein 21 shampoo, starring in nationwide print and television advertising campaigns. The Daily Express declared her "The Face of 1971”, hailing her as one of Britain's more promising newcomers. In it, the copy read: “She has that indefinable something. Whatever it is it all adds up to a delightful image of rare and innocent beauty...that face of Lynne Frederick will be seen in many more films…”.

In 1971, she appeared in the biographical film Nicholas and Alexandra (1971), in which she played the Grand Duchess Tatiana Nikolaevna of Russia, second eldest daughter of Tsar Nicholas II. For the film's press tour, she toured Europe with her three co-stars Ania Marson, Candace Glendenning, and Fiona Fullerton. That same year, she auditioned for the role of Alice in Alice's Adventures in Wonderland (1972), but lost the role to her friend Fiona Fullerton. Frederick was also first runner-up for the role of Saint Clare of Assisi in the Franco Zeffirelli production of Brother Sun, Sister Moon (1972), which ultimately went to Judi Bowker.

Her best-known appearance was in 1972 when she played Catherine Howard, in Henry VIII and His Six Wives. Her next role was in the 1972 family film The Amazing Mr. Blunden; in 1973, she won the Evening Standard British Film Award for Best New Actress. She continued to work in film and television projects throughout 1973 and 1974. Some of the shows in which she appeared were Wessex Tales, Follyfoot, The Generation Game, and an adaptation of The Canterville Ghost where she first met David Niven, who became a lifelong friend. Frederick's most prominent television role came in 1974 when she appeared in three episodes of the critically acclaimed and Emmy-winning series The Pallisers. The series featured a huge cast of prominent and rising British actors, including Anthony Andrews, of whom she played the love interest.

1975–1977: Adult stardom
Frederick landed a role in the Spanish romance film A Long Return (Largo retorno, 1975), where she also made her debut and only appearance singing on a film's soundtrack. She also appeared alongside Fabio Testi in Four of the Apocalypse as well as in the adventure film Cormack of the Mounties. She returned to playing a teen-aged character in the Spanish film El Vicio Y La Virtud (1975).

Frederick began 1976 with an appearance in a then controversial episode of the BBC series Play for Today, titled "The Other Woman", in which she played a sexually enigmatic girl who falls for a lesbian artist played by Jane Lapotaire. Later the same year, she delivered a critically acclaimed performance in the Oscar-nominated film Voyage of the Damned (1976). She followed that with a leading role in a Pete Walker slasher horror film Schizo (1976), a movie that became an underground hit in the horror film genre.

Along with Frederick's rising mainstream success as an actress, her modelling career was also taking off. Shifting her style and image to that of a more sophisticated glamour girl, Frederick emerged as a movie sex symbol of the late 1970s. Her profile expanded to Japan, and she became a frequent face in the Japanese entertainment magazine Screen. She was featured as a celebrity centerfold pin-up, and made the cover three times in the space of eighteen months. Frederick was also listed in several press and editorial publications as one of photographer Terry Fincher's muses.

By this point in her career, Frederick was earning over £4,000 (£0 today) per week for her film work alone. She was also being represented by A-list Hollywood agent Dennis Selinger, who represented internationally successful British actors such as Vanessa Redgrave, Michael Caine, and Sean Connery. Selinger was preparing Frederick for worldwide crossover stardom in mainstream film and television productions. In addition, Frederick had now reached the point where she no longer had to audition for roles, and she was being sent stacks of scripts and lucrative film offers.

1978–1980: Career decline and blacklisting
Following her marriage to Peter Sellers in 1977, Frederick's career stalled for over a year as Sellers forced her to turn down all the acting offers she was receiving in order to tend him through poor health, including looking after him on the sets of his films. She attempted to make a career comeback in 1978, but the year-long absence had cost Frederick her burgeoning stardom.

Frederick campaigned and auditioned for several films. The role that she most desired, and spent a great deal of time lobbying for, was the leading role of Meggie Cleary in The Thorn Birds. Despite her lengthy and accomplished acting résumé, the producers selected Rachel Ward. Other roles she campaigned for included Cosette in the 1978 television adaptation of Les Misérables (1978), and Anne Sullivan in the television remake of The Miracle Worker (1979), neither of which she received. She made her final onscreen appearance with Sellers in the 1979 remake of The Prisoner of Zenda, which was a box-office and critical flop. Her final credit was as an executive producer on The Fiendish Plot of Dr. Fu Manchu (1980), Sellers's last film.

Following Sellers's death, his controversial will, the ongoing feuds with her stepchildren, and her short marriage to David Frost, Frederick became a figure of hate and ridicule in the press and other media. The Daily Mirror featured her in a list of disgraced public figures of 1980. Labelled as a “gold digger” and "professional wife", she was shunned and blacklisted from the film industry. By 1982, at age 28, she was considered unemployable and gradually dropped out of the public eye.

Marriages
Frederick's first marriage at age 22 was to Peter Sellers. They met at a Dennis Selinger dinner party in March of 1976 after Frederick had finished making Schizo (1976). Sellers initially proposed to her two days after their first meeting, but she turned him down. They courted for a year, he proposed to her again, and they eloped to Paris on 18 February 1977.

Contrary to popular belief, their marriage started well, and they were a popular couple among the British public. Writer Stephen Bach said of their relationship: "I noticed as he [Peter Sellers] rose, that not once in the long talkative afternoon had he let go of Lynne's hand, nor had she moved away. She transfused him simultaneously with calm and energy, and the hand he clung to was less a hand than a lifeline". He also added that he believed that Lynne had a unique ability to calm Sellers' manic moods; "the atmosphere was uneasy only until Lynne Frederick came into the room, exuding an aura of calm that somehow enveloped us all like an Alpine fragrance. She was only in her mid-twenties, but instantly observable as the mature center around which the household revolved, an emotional anchor that looked like a daffodil". David Niven, who was a friend to both Sellers and Frederick, had credited Peter's happiness to Lynne being a devoted and loving wife.

Their marriage declined as Sellers's health deteriorated. He forced Frederick to forfeit her growing and lucrative acting career to care for him. Sellers's biographer Ed Sikov claimed that Frederick was offered a lucrative five-month job in Moscow where she was to lead a big budgeted television miniseries, but Sellers insisted she should turn it down so that he would not be left alone.

The tension between them increased after the box-office and critical failure of The Prisoner of Zenda (1979), followed by negative tabloid reports of rumours of drug use, infidelity, domestic abuse, and other alleged conflicts. Despite their struggles, Frederick stood by Sellers and cared for him as his health continued to decline and he became more temperamental. Although they separated a number of times, they always came back together.

Sellers was reportedly in the process of excluding her from his will a week before he died of a heart attack on 24 July 1980, the day before her 26th birthday. The planned changes to the will not having been finalised, she inherited almost his entire estate, worth an estimated £4.5 million (£0 million today), and his children received £800 each (£0 today). Despite appeals from a number of Sellers's friends to make a fair settlement to the children, Frederick allegedly refused to give her stepchildren anything due to their rocky relationship with her and Peter. After Sellers's death, her stepson Michael Sellers published P.S. I Love You: An Intimate Portrait of Peter Sellers, an exposé memoir concerning his relationship with his father. In the book, he accused Frederick of being a deceitful, cunning and narcissistic fraud who only married his father for his money. He also alleged that Frederick had cheated his sisters and him out of their inheritance by intentionally manipulating their father to alter the will in her favour. These accusations led to the press vilifying and labelling her as a "gold digger".

She briefly married David Frost (on 25 January 1981). Her supposed eagerness to remarry so quickly after Sellers's death caused a loss of reputation in the public eye, and was one of the major factors in her blacklisting. Before their marriage, Frederick had known Frost for several years, and they were occasional lovers in between relationships. Frederick divorced Frost after 17 months. During the course of their marriage, she suffered a miscarriage in March 1982.

In December 1982, she married U.S. cardiologist Barry Unger with whom she had her only child, Cassie Cecilia Unger (born 1983). Lynne and Barry divorced in 1991.

Later life
After losing her acting career, Frederick lived a private and reclusive life. When she divorced Frost, she faced public embarrassment when it was reported that she became intoxicated at a formal restaurant. Following this incident, she fled from England to California and never returned to her homeland again. In later years, she was known for being fiercely private. Subsequently, she refused to give interviews and distanced herself from the celebrity lifestyle.

After her divorce from Barry Unger, Frederick lived in a Los Angeles mansion that previously was owned by Gary Cooper. She struggled with alcoholism, epileptic seizures, and clinical depression. There were also rumours of nervous breakdowns and suicide attempts. Despite participating in numerous recovery treatments at hospitals and clinics, she was unable to rebuild her health. Weary after her years of public scorn and deteriorating conditions, she cloistered herself in her home for days at a time. Her mother Iris moved from England to California to live with Frederick to help care for her and her daughter, Cassie.

Frederick was the sole manager of Sellers's estate. She took such pride in being Sellers's wife that she legally changed her last name to Sellers. It has been reported that when she took part in group therapy sessions, she introduced herself as "Lynne Sellers, the wife of Peter Sellers".

Relationships
Frederick, who never met her biological father, regarded actor David Niven as her substitute father. They first met while filming the television film adaptation of The Canterville Ghost (1974). They remained close friends over the years until Niven's death in 1983, which occurred just eight weeks after the birth of her daughter.

As a child, Lynne was very close to her mother Iris and grandmother Cecilia. Her relationship with her mother suffered major damage after she married Peter Sellers in 1977. Five days after the wedding, Iris spoke out against the marriage in an interview with the Daily Mirror: "Time will tell, but I think Lynne has made a terrible mistake. I hope it will work for her sake. He [Peter Sellers] is a brilliant man, but not the kind of son in law I would have chosen. I wasn't invited to the ceremony, but that isn't surprising. When I heard it was taking place, I said: 'The sooner it happens, the sooner it will be over'. Somehow, in view of Sellers's previous record with the ladies who have gone before, I think this marriage may not last too long."

Feeling hurt and betrayed by this interview, Lynne did not see or speak to her mother again for the duration of her marriage to Sellers. When asked about cutting ties with her daughter, Iris said: "I have my own life to live. Of course I still love her. I’ve cried for her and I miss her a great deal. Lynne is right when she says we were terribly close and it hurts when I see her using the press to make me look the guilty party in all this."

During the period when Iris was not in communication with Lynne, she continued to publicly blast her daughter's marriage in the press. "My own marriage ended unhappily when Lynne was two. I tried to compensate for her having no father by devoting all the time I wasn't working to her. Perhaps if I had married again she wouldn't gone on choosing men twice her age as boyfriends – looking for a father figure I suppose. She met Peter Sellers on the rebound from David Frost. I thought 'here we go again' but I didn't want to be the one to put it down without giving it a chance. I know I said things later about marital track record not being very good, but at the time I went along with it wondering how long it would be before I was having to give him the 'Lynne regrets' speech. Now I ask you! What mother can be expected to approve of the marriage of her daughter to such a man? My heart bled for her. To me their marriage is doomed right from the start. I hope and pray they'll prove me wrong. God knows I want Lynne to be happy. But this time I must let her sort it out for herself. She must understand that I am staying clear for her sake even though it hurts me to do so."

After Sellers's death in 1980, Frederick reconciled with her mother. Despite its rekindling, their relationship was never the same again.

In 1972, while in her late teens, Frederick became involved with Curzon House Club casino owner Julian Posner, who like Sellers was 30 years her senior. They had an on-and-off relationship for about three years until 1975, while Frederick's acting career continued to blossom. During their off times, Frederick often discreetly engaged in affairs with her friend and future husband David Frost.

Frederick's relationship with her former stepchildren (Michael Sellers, Sarah Sellers, and Victoria Sellers) was, like Peter's relationship with them, distant and often strained. When Lynne began her relationship with Peter, she made efforts to establish a friendly connection with them. Sarah recalled of Lynne: "she seemed quite nice to begin with. I actually told dad that I thought she was a bit stupid. But she came across as very bubbly, friendly, warm and interested. But once they got married things definitely changed". Michael Sellers wrote of Frederick in his exposé memoir: "my first impression of Lynne didn't do much to alter my views. She was not exactly my idea of sweetness and light. It didn't concern me that she lacked the good looks of dad's past wives and girlfriends, but those innocent eyes, certainly her strongest feature, didn't deceive me". Michael Sellers also bluntly acknowledged his intentional hostility and lack of respect towards Lynne when they first met: "I'm afraid we weren't very kind in our judgement of Lynne. Sarah thought she wasn't too bright. But our views didn't really count for much. Because whatever our opinions, they would be of purely academic interest". Months after Frederick's death in 1994, Victoria said "I feel now that she's in hell – I don't know but that makes me feel better."

When she made the film Nicholas and Alexandra (1971), the director, Franklin J. Schaffner, arranged for Lynne and her co-stars (Michael Jayston, Janet Suzman, Roderick Noble, Ania Marson, Candace Glendenning, and Fiona Fullerton) to live together as a family during the nine-month production period, so as to add more authenticity to their performances. During this time, she developed a close friendship with her co-star Fiona Fullerton (who played her younger sister in the film). They remained good friends for several years.

One of Frederick's close friends was Mauritian actress Françoise Pascal. The two first met when they co-starred on a 1972 episode of the television anthology series BBC Play of the Month, and thet quickly became "firm friends". Pascal recalled that they remained friends for several years before regretfully losing touch after Frederick married Sellers in 1977. In April 2020, a few weeks before the 26th anniversary of Frederick's death, Pascal tweeted a photo of herself and Frederick, with the caption "I think of her very often! Always had that fresh baby face! RIP Lynne! Xxx".

In 2018, Judy Matheson revealed that she had worked with Frederick in the early 1970s. They were slated to appear in a film together that was to be shot in the Netherlands, with John Hamil, Robert Coleby, and Nina Francis. Because Frederick was young and a relative newcomer to filmmaking at the time, Matheson (who was a few years older and had industry experience) was asked to be Lynne's chaperone for the trip (as Lynne's mother was unavailable). They spent about three weeks lodged together in a hotel room before production on the film was prematurely closed due to financial withdrawals. Matheson stated that she enjoyed Frederick's company, and that they managed to have fun together despite the production difficulties. After returning to Great Britain, they corresponded for a while before gradually losing touch with each other.

During production of Four of the Apocalypse (1975), she was rumoured to have had a brief romance with her co-star Fabio Testi (who was having trouble in his relationship with actress Ursula Andress at the time), which was also during a time when Frederick was having trouble in her own relationship with Julian Posner. Naturally, this helped Testi and Frederick with their chemistry in the movie, and they were paired again for the film Cormack of the Mounties (1975). There has been much speculation about such a romance between Testi and Frederick, but it has not been confirmed.

In her 2014 memoir I Said Yes to Everything, Lee Grant claimed that during production of the film Voyage of the Damned (1976) Frederick, then aged 21, engaged in an affair with Sam Wanamaker, who was 35 years Frederick's senior and married to Charlotte Holland at the time. Grant also stated that she witnessed all the men on set, including the film's director Stuart Rosenberg, make salacious passes at Frederick, all of which she rejected.

Julie Andrews stated in her 2019 autobiography Home Work: A Memoir of My Hollywood Years that she suspected her husband Blake Edwards was having an affair with Lynne (who was married to Sellers at the time) during production of Revenge of the Pink Panther (1978). When Andrews confronted Blake about the "flirtations" between him and Frederick, Julie asked him point-blank which he preferred: staying married or continuing this flirtation. After this confrontation, Blake apparently ceased any kind of flirtation with Frederick. She later had a falling-out with Edwards and Andrews after successfully suing them for their involvement with the film Trail of the Pink Panther (1982), claiming that it insulted Sellers's memory. She never spoke to them again.

Political views and beliefs
In a 1975 interview with Men Only, Frederick stated that she "partially agreed" with Women's Lib. Stating "I agree with the fact that women should have equal rights", she added that she also believed in some old fashioned gender roles. "I agree that there are certain things that men are designed to do; just as there are things women are designed to do. I think women are just as capable of ruling people and looking after our affairs as men are. Sometimes possibly better because women have a level of sensibility and sensitivity as well, which possibly men don't sometimes."

Although not gay herself, Frederick was known for being a blunt and outspoken advocate for same-sex relationships and LGBT rights during a time when it was considered highly taboo. Following her appearance on a controversial episode of the television series Play for Today, where she played a sexually fluid character and shared an onscreen kiss with her female co-star Jane Lapotaire, she said "with homosexuality and lesbianism, I just don't think you can put a ban on it. I don't think you can say it's wrong. I think people should live how they want to live. I don't think it should be illegal."

Frederick grew up as a Methodist. In a 1975 interview, she expressed some agnostic views when she was asked about a progressive Catholic priest's response to the pope's declaring premarital sex a sin. "I really agree with the other priests that it should have never been issued. I think that does put the Church back; I really do. I can say it because I'm not particularly religious. But I think people who are religious, I hope they would feel that it's not a step forward. I think premarital sex is a good idea. I think the worst thing that could possibly happen is to not have sex before you get married, then get married and find out it's dreadful." After Peter Sellers died, she went to visit spiritualist and psychic medium Doris Collins. When asked if she believed in life after death, she replied "I’ve always believed that death was not the end". Frederick later suggested in an interview that she still retained her Methodist faith: "I never touch hard liquor. I suppose wine is ok for a good Methodist like me".

Philanthropy
Following the death of her first husband Peter Sellers, she became involved in donating to various heart charities.

In November 1980, she bought and donated an echocardiograph (valued at £12,400) to the Middlesex Hospital in London where Sellers died of a heart attack. Frederick stated "I wanted to try and reciprocate in some way to the enormous love and care which staff here showed my husband".

After her own death in 1994, she left individual sums of $250,000 to the British Heart Foundation and the Middlesex Hospital in London as tribute to Sellers (who died of a heart attack). As a sign of gratitude, the Middlesex Hospital hung a plaque thanking both Sellers and Frederick for their generous contributions.

Trail of the Pink Panther (1982) lawsuit
Shortly after the release of Trail of the Pink Panther (1982), Frederick filed suit against MGM, United Artists, and film director Blake Edwards for $3 million in damages and to block the film's distribution. She claimed that the film tarnished Peter Sellers's reputation and that it was made without authorisation from his estate, which she controlled.

At the High Court in London, the defence argued that the film was meant to be a tribute to Sellers, but Frederick stated "It was an appalling film: Not a tribute to my husband but an insult to his memory". Her chief objection was that her late husband had specifically prohibited the use of outtakes from earlier Pink Panther films in his lifetime and that his estate should have had the right to control the use of outtakes after his death. The idea of using outtakes in future Pink Panther films was first presented in Sellers's lifetime when Edwards had shot and edited a three-hour version of The Pink Panther Strikes Again (1976). However, United Artists objected to this long version, and the film was trimmed from three hours to an hour and a half.

After Sellers's death in 1980, United Artists, wanting to cash in on the continuation of the series, elected Edwards to construct a new film from outtakes and deleted scenes from the five previous Pink Panther movies featuring Sellers. A handful of new material involving other actors was specially filmed for inclusion. Some of the older material dated as far back as 1963. The lack of continuity was evident in many scenes, and was subjected to heavy mockery from film critics.

In 1985, Judge Charles Hobhouse ruled in favour of Frederick, awarding her $1 million, but dismissed her request to ban the film. Despite her efforts to protect Sellers's legacy, the press continued sneering at her. Frederick stated "I hope this proves that I'm not a gold digger! I’ve risked my entire fortune and the financial future of my daughter to protect Peter's reputation." After the lawsuit, Frederick continued to guard Sellers's films and went to great lengths to make sure each one was handled with respect and dignity.

Death
On 27 April 1994, Frederick was found dead by her mother in her West Los Angeles home, aged 39. Foul play and suicide were ruled out, and an autopsy failed to determine the cause of death. Her remains were cremated at Golders Green Crematorium in London, and her ashes were interred with those of her first husband, Peter Sellers.

In a 1995 interview with Hello!, her mother Iris claimed that Lynne died from natural causes which was brought on by a seizure in her sleep. She also denied accusations that her daughter had a drug or alcohol problem. "'There is absolutely no truth in any of the stories I have read about Lynne's death. I never saw Lynne taking cocaine. She liked a glass of wine, but so do most people and she was no more an alcoholic than the next person. The autopsy report was quite clear, her death was by natural causes. Lynne died of a seizure in her sleep. For the record, the coroner found no evidence that Lynne had been taking drugs.'"

Legacy
In the years after her death, Frederick's legacy remained poisoned, and she was seldom remembered favourably. In the 1995 revision of his 1994 book The Life and Death of Peter Sellers, Roger Lewis claimed that "there is yet to find a single person to say a good thing about Lynne". British journalist Nigel Dempster had a profound dislike for Frederick and referred to her as an "avaricious and cunning man-eater". Other people who have voiced unfavorable views of Lynne include Spike Milligan, Britt Ekland, Roger Moore, Wendy Richard and Simon Williams.

She received minimal attention in the 2004 film adaptation of Lewis's book where she was portrayed by British actress Emilia Fox. All scenes featuring Fox's portrayal of Frederick were deleted from the final cut of the film, but included in the supplemental features of the film's DVD release. On portraying Frederick, Fox stated "I had thought very carefully about playing Lynne. I wanted to represent her in a way that I thought was fair – which was a very young girl being taken up in this world of laughter and light, and then finding out the reality. Peter Sellers was completely obsessed by work, and it's very difficult to live with someone like that."

Over time, views toward Frederick's image gradually shifted, and she soon gained a cult following through her films, and has been described as one of the most promising, talented, and beautiful young British actresses of the 1970s. Many credit the negative events in her life (the loss of her acting career, blacklisting in Hollywood, and untimely death) to her marriage to Sellers. Even Roger Lewis, who was blunt about his disdain for Frederick, admitted that "of all of Sellers's wives, Lynne Frederick was the most poorly treated". One of the early people to advocate for Lynne was American author Ed Sikov in the 2002 book Mr. Strangelove: A Biography of Peter Sellers: "Lynne Frederick deserves a bit of compassion herself in retrospect. It was the helpless Peter she nursed, the dependent and infantile creature of impulse and consequent contradiction. Patiently she ministered him". Other people who have defended or come forward with positive recollections of Frederick over the years include Judy Matheson, Françoise Pascal,  John Moulder-Brown, Mark Burns, Fabio Testi, Malcolm McDowell, and Graham Crowden.

There has been continued belief that Frederick would have achieved greater career success had it not been for her marriage to Sellers and untimely death. It has been theorised that she had the potential to attain stardom equivalent to that of Helen Mirren, Judi Dench, and Julie Walters.

In 1982, Frederick's screen appearance as Catherine Howard from the film Henry VIII and His Six Wives (1972) was used on the cover art for the 1982 novel The Dark Rose by Cynthia Harrod-Eagles.

For her work in horror films, Frederick has garnered significant popularity as a scream queen. In 2014, her image from the film poster of Schizo (1976) was featured in a montage for the cover of the publication X-CERT 2: The British Independent Horror Film: 1971-1983 by John Hamilton.

The Times obituary for Frederick called her the "Olivia Hussey of her day".

Television
‡ denotes lost film

Live performances
៛ Performed live 25 December 1973 on the BBC show The Generation Game

title: Lynne Frederick


text:
Talk:Duke Ellington

Birthdays
Has anyone else noticed that the abstract has April 29,1899, while the Early Life section has the day as April 15, 1879. That's wrong I believe. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Eplack (talk • contribs)

 * Actually, the 1879 date is his father's birth. I'm not sure why someone thought a biography of his parents belonged in the Early Life section.  I suppose that -20 is a tender age, but that's a little excessive. JordeeBec 16:24, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

 * P.S. Sign your posts on talk pages. JordeeBec

April 23, 1898 Farmhand23 (talk) 02:17, 26 December 2019 (UTC)

Tributes or trivia
In recent months there have been multiple additions and removals of mention of a character in a Big_Mouth_(TV_series) who represents the ghost of Duke Ellington; this was most recently added to the Duke_Ellington section. The summary and outgoing links in Big_Mouth_(TV_series) seem sufficient, as they do for the series' other cultural reference points such as Statue of Liberty, Pablo Picasso. Neither for this article or any of these others does adding mention of this animation series impart any additional information about the subject of this article. AllyD (talk) 10:45, 16 January 2021 (UTC)
 * Users who think adding a reference to Big Mouth might read "In popular culture" content: "In determining whether a reference is encyclopedic, one helpful test can be to look at whether a person who is familiar with the topic only through the reference in question has the potential to learn something meaningful about the topic from that work alone." The (possibly fictional) event of Ellington losing his virginity in 1913, as the Big Mouth article indicates, is not relevant to this article. Generally, it is not a life development which is included in biographies. Philip Cross (talk) 12:25, 16 January 2021 (UTC)

Paradise Papers
added a sentence to the lead, stating "His name appeared in the Paradise Papers.". Judging from the article which that user included as a reference and here, what was in the Paradise Papers was "a cache of music publishing rights" which included those on "Day Dream", a 1939 Billy Strayhorn song on which Ellington sometimes has co-writing credits. The subsequent collateralisation of song rights for profit some 70 years later is of some interest, but is far from carrying sufficient importance to the biography of Ellington to be mentioned in the introductory overview - or, in my opinion, anywhere else in the article. I am reverting the addition but am happy to read others' views on whether it merits inclusion. AllyD (talk) 14:21, 11 August 2021 (UTC) (Already reverted by while I was writing.)

 * , the editor keen on mentioning the Paradise papers in this article has added the category to many other articles based on this list article with the possibility many individuals have limited or no direct connection to the issue as well. Philip Cross (talk) 14:37, 11 August 2021 (UTC)

Missing biography
There should probably be some mention of Ellington biographer Stuart Nicholson (jazz historian) or better yet use of his biography on Ellington in this article.4meter4 (talk) 20:52, 9 January 2023 (UTC)

Duke Ellington's obstacle
Description 2601:589:4900:7E40:4117:5C8A:47B0:F89 (talk) 00:38, 14 February 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Duke Ellington


text:
Joseph Sobran

Michael Joseph Sobran Jr. (February 23, 1946 – September 30, 2010), also known as M. J. Sobran, was an American paleoconservative journalist and syndicated columnist. He wrote for the National Review magazine from 1972 to 1993.

In his columns, Sobran was moralistic, opposed to big government, and an isolationist critic of U.S. foreign policy. When he fired Sobran from his longtime job at National Review in 1993, publisher William F. Buckley termed some of Sobran's writings "contextually anti-semitic." In the early 2000s, Sobran was a speaker for the Holocaust denial group Institute for Historical Review.

Early life
Michael Joseph Sobran Jr. was born in Ypsilanti, Michigan, on February 23, 1946, to Doris (née Prevost, 1924–1997), a department store clerk, and Michael Joseph Sobran (1916–1994), an autoworker. His paternal grandparents were from Austria-Hungary, and his mother was of English, French-Canadian and Irish ancestry. Sobran was raised in a Roman Catholic family.

Sobran graduated from Eastern Michigan University in 1969 with a Bachelor of Arts in English. He studied for a Master of English degree with a concentration on Shakespearean studies. In the late 1960s, Sobran lectured on Shakespeare and English on a fellowship with Eastern Michigan.

Columnist
In 1972, while at Eastern Michigan, Sobran published rebuttals of criticisms from other faculty of an upcoming campus visit by William F. Buckley Jr., publisher of the National Review and a prominent conservative. After reading Sobran's comments, Buckley hired him as a columnist at the National Review. After three years, Buckley promoted Sobran to senior editor. They had a long friendship.

Aside from his work at National Review, Sobran spent 21 years as a commentator on the CBS Radio Spectrum program series. He was a syndicated columnist, first with the Los Angeles Times and later with the Universal Press Syndicate. From 1988 to 2007, he wrote the column "Washington Watch" for the traditionalist lay Catholic weekly The Wanderer. He also wrote a monthly column for the traditionalist Catholic Family News (a publication considered anti-Semitic by the Southern Poverty Law Center ) and the "Bare Bodkin" column for Chronicles magazine. He was a media fellow of the Mises Institute.

Firing from National Review
In 1993, in a column in The Wanderer, Sobran attacked Buckley for his support of the 1991 Gulf War. Already unhappy with Sobran's columns on Israel and anti-Semitism, Buckley was reportedly angered that Sobran had used information from their private conversations and decided to fire him as senior editor. Buckley said he considered some of Sobran's columns to be "... contextually anti-Semitic. By this I mean that if he had been talking, let us say, about the lobbying interests of the Arabs or of the Chinese, he would not have raised eyebrows as an anti-Arab or an anti-Chinese". In response to his firing, Sobran claimed that Buckley told him to "stop antagonizing the Zionist crowd" and accused him of libel and moral incapacitation. In his own assessment, Columnist Norman Podhoretz wrote that Sobran's columns were "anti-Semitic in themselves, and not merely 'contextually.

In 1994, he founded "Sobran’s: The Real News of the Month", a newsletter that published until 2007. Sobran was named the Constitution Party's vice presidential nominee in 2000, but withdrew later that year due to scheduling conflicts.

Institute for Historical Review
In 2001, Pat Buchanan offered Sobran a column in Buchanan's new magazine The American Conservative. (After Sobran's death, Buchanan called him "perhaps the finest columnist of our generation". ) However, the magazine's editor, Scott McConnell, withdrew the offer when Sobran refused to cancel his appearance before the Institute for Historical Review, a leading Holocaust-denying group.

In 2001 and 2003, Sobran spoke at conferences organized by David Irving and shared the podium with Paul Fromm, Charles D. Provan, and Mark Weber, director of the Institute for Historical Review. In 2002, he spoke at the Institute for Historical Review's annual conference. Referring to Sobran's appearance at the conferences, historian Deborah Lipstadt wrote: "Mr. Sobran may not have been an unequivocal [Holocaust] denier, but he gave support and comfort to the worst of them". Writing in National Review, Matthew Scully said: "His appearance before that sorry outfit a few years ago [...] remains impossible to explain, at least if you're trying to absolve him".

In the 2008 presidential election, Sobran endorsed Constitution Party candidate Chuck Baldwin.

Death and legacy
Sobran was twice married and divorced. He had four children. Sobran died in a nursing home in Fairfax, Virginia, on September 30, 2010, of kidney failure due to diabetes.

Philosophy
Throughout much of his career, Sobran identified as a paleoconservative like his colleagues Samuel T. Francis, Pat Buchanan, and Peter Gemma. He claimed to support a strict interpretation of the United States Constitution. He asserted that the Tenth Amendment meant that almost every federal government act since the Civil War had been illegal. In 2002, Sobran announced his philosophical and political shift to libertarianism (paleolibertarian anarcho-capitalism), citing inspiration by theorists Murray Rothbard and Hans-Hermann Hoppe. He referred to himself as a "theo-anarchist".

Sobran asserted in the neo-Confederate Southern Partisan magazine that Martin Luther King Jr.'s dream had become an "American nightmare" because civil rights had encouraged, in Sobran's words, "black thugs".

Catholic teachings
Sobran said Catholic teachings were consistent with his opposition to abortion and the Iraq War. Asked to summarize his views, Sobran said once, "I won't be satisfied until the Church resumes burning for heresy" — a remark that Buchanan's biographer Timothy Stanley described as "funny, offensive and honest".

Jews and Israel
Sobran frequently used his columns to criticize Israel, the Holocaust and Zionism. In one column, Sobran wrote that The New York Times "really ought to change its name to Holocaust Update". In a 1992 column, he complained of "a more or less official national obsession with a tiny, faraway socialist ethnocracy", meaning Israel. Sobran argued that the 9/11 attacks were a result of the United States government's policies in the Middle East. He claimed those policies are formed by the "Jewish lobby".

In 2002, Sobran wrote, "My chief offense, it appears, has been to insist that the state of Israel has been a costly and treacherous ‘ally’ to the United States. As of last Sept. 11, I should think that is undeniable. But I have yet to receive a single apology for having been correct." Sobran said he lacked the "scholarly competence" to be a Holocaust denier. He also claimed that the official number of Holocaust victims was inaccurate and that Nazi Germany was not intent on racial extermination. He said his attitude was not anti-Semitism but "more like counter-Semitism".

Books

 * Single Issues: Essays on the Crucial Social Questions (1983, Arlington House)
 * Pensées: Notes for the reactionary of tomorrow (1985, Arlington House)
 * Alias Shakespeare: Solving the Greatest Literary Mystery of All Time (1997, Free Press) Sobran espoused the Oxfordian theory that Edward de Vere, 17th Earl of Oxford, wrote the plays attributed to William Shakespeare.
 * Hustler: The Clinton Legacy (2000, Griffin Communications)
 * Sobran's: The Real News of the Month (monthly newsletter)
 * Joseph Sobran: The National Review Years (selections of his work during his time at National Review, edited by Fran Griffin, 2012, Griffin Communications)

At the time of his death, Sobran was working on two books, one concerning Abraham Lincoln's presidency and the United States Constitution and another about de Vere's poetry.

Articles and speeches
His essays appeared in The Human Life Review, Celebrate Life! and The Free Market.
 * The Church Today: Less Catholic Than the Pope? – National Committee of Catholic Laymen – 1979
 * How Tyranny Came to America, Sobran's, n.d.
 * Pensees: Notes for the reactionary of tomorrow, National Review, December 31, 1985. (extended essay)
 * Power and Betrayal – Griffin Communications – 1998
 * Anything Called a Program is Unconstitutional – Griffin Communications – 2001

title: Joseph Sobran


text:
Thymiaterion

A thymiaterion (from Ancient Greek: θυμιατήριον from θυμιάειν thymiaein "to smoke"; plural thymiateria) is a type of censer or incense burner, used in the Mediterranean region since antiquity for spiritual and religious purposes and especially in religious ceremonies.

The term is used not only for the censers of ancient Greece, from where the term comes, but also to describe the censers of other peoples of the ancient world, such as the Phoenicians and Etruscans.

Thymiateria could take a wide variety of forms, ranging from simple earthenware pots to elaborate carved, moulded or cast items made from clay or bronze.

Various types of thymiateria are still used in the Greek Orthodox rituals in churches, homes, cemeteries etc. They are commonly known also as "livanisteria" (from the w. Livanos, incense).

title: Thymiaterion


text:
China Gate

China Gate may refer to:
 * China Gate (1957 film), a Hollywood film directed by Samuel Fuller and starring Gene Barry and Angie Dickinson
 * China Gate (1998 film), an Indian Hindi-language drama film by Rajkumar Santoshi, starring Urmila Matondkar, Amrish Puri and Naseeruddin Shah
 * China Gate (website), a Chinese online website
 * China Gate (album), a 1996 album by Cul de Sac
 * China Gates, a 1977 piano piece by John Adams

title: China Gate


text:
Carpenter Body Company

Carpenter Body Works (typically referred to simply as Carpenter) is a defunct American bus manufacturer. Founded in 1918 in Mitchell, Indiana, the company produced a variety of vehicles, with the majority of production consisting of yellow school buses for the United States and Canada.

Remaining a family-owned company into the late 1980s, Carpenter entered bankruptcy at the end of 1989 and was forced to reorganize to survive. In 1995, the company relocated to the former Wayne Corporation facilities in Richmond, Indiana; in 1996, the company rebranded its product line as "Crown by Carpenter". In 1998, Carpenter was acquired by specialty vehicle manufacturer Spartan Motors.

In early 2001, Carpenter ended vehicle production, as its market share declined further.

Foundation
Carpenter traces its roots to 1918, in Mitchell, Indiana. Local blacksmith Ralph H. Carpenter established his own blacksmith works; at the time, part of the business involved building and repairing horse-drawn wagons. At the time, in many rural areas, these were still adapted to carry people simply with the addition of wooden benches. Inspired by the merger of two local school systems in the area near Mitchell, in 1922, Carpenter shifted from repair to construction of new bodies, constructing his first wooden-bodied "kid hack". By the mid-1920s, motorized truck chassis formed the basis of all vehicle bodies. Although still constructed primarily of wood, the new bus bodies were now reinforced by steel in the exterior and framing.

In 1935, the combination of wood and metal construction was replaced by a body built solely of steel; the roof panels were welded together instead of riveted, forming a single panel. At the same time, the company debuted an early form of the school bus stop arm, though in a much different form: instead of a stop sign, the company used a clenched fist with a red-painted index finger that was propped out from the side of the bus. In 1937, Ralph Carpenter reincorporated his business as Carpenter Body Works, expanding into a larger factory in Mitchell in 1939.

In 1939, Ralph Carpenter attended a New York conference organized by rural education professor Dr. Frank W. Cyr, who sought to develop uniform design standards for school bus manufacturers; the event led to the birth of school bus yellow. Several of Carpenter's ideas were adopted, including shatterproof safety glass, steel seat frames, and a fold-out stop sign.

In 1941, the company became one of the first publicly owned bus manufacturers. During the World War II moratorium on private-sector vehicle manufacturing, Carpenter became a bus supplier for the US Army and US Navy, becoming a source of buses for military training facilities across the United States.

1950s–1980: Reconstruction and Expansion
In May 1947, the Carpenter factory in Mitchell, Indiana, was heavily damaged by a fire in the paint shop.

In 1954, Carpenter produced its first transit-style "forward-control" bus. Similar to designs from Blue Bird and Wayne, the company used Marmon-Herrington as its chassis supplier. As with other manufacturers, Carpenter conventional-style buses in the early 1950s were available on a variety of chassis, including Chevrolet/GMC, Ford, Dodge, International Harvester, Mack, REO, Diamond T, Studebaker, and White.

In March 1956, the Carpenter factory was again struck by fire, starting on the body-fitment station. Causing nearly $750,000 in damage, much of the factory was destroyed, except for the warehouse, upholstery shop, and paint shop; approximately two dozen buses were driven away from the fire to safety. With the help of factory workers, the factory was rebuilt and expanded in just 89 days. During the reconstruction, some workers worked without pay until later compensated.

Following the 1963 death of Ralph Carpenter at age 85, leadership of the company transferred to his son-in-law John A. Foddrill.

To the end of the 1960s, Carpenter continued to produce its school bus product line as it had since the 1920s: every vehicle was essentially built one at time without an assembly line and essentially to order. Although one of the larger school bus manufacturers, Carpenter allowed for a great deal of specialization and available options for a purchaser.

In 1969, Carpenter became one of the first manufacturers to offer a downsized school bus (25-30 passengers) for smaller-scale operators. Based on the General Motors P-chassis, the Carpenter Cadet CV utilized the roof and the body of the conventional-body Carpenter from the entry door rearward. From the drivers' seat forward, the Cadet was designed similar to the GM "stepvan". The Cadet would spawn a number of similar designs from other manufacturers, remaining in production for 29 years.

In 1970, Carpenter upgraded its transit-style school buses with the introduction of the Corsair; the Marmon-Herrington chassis was replaced by a Hendrickson chassis. In addition, a distinguishing feature of the Corsair was its wraparound curved "fishbowl" windshield. Along with the forward-control Corsair, an all-new rear-engine model made its debut.

In 1970, parts of the factory were expanded further; under a company objective, management sought to source nearly all materials for the construction within Indiana (only carpet had to be sourced out of state)

During much of 1978, production at the Mitchell, Indiana facility was halted by a 6-month long labor strike lasting from February to August.

1981–90: Financial Decline
As the 1970s turned into the 1980s, a critical factor affecting school bus manufacturing was declining student populations; the baby boomer generation that had attended schools for the past 25 years were now on the verge of all completing their secondary education. Overcapacity and lowered demand in the bus manufacturing industry was coupled with the unstable economy of the time. The company unsuccessfully attempted to diversify into the small transit bus market.

In 1981, Carpenter made its first move in expanding beyond its Mitchell, Indiana home. After securing over $1 million in loans, the company opened a machine shop in North Vernon, Indiana. In addition, in moving into the mass-transit market, Carpenter introduced the CBW range. A rear-engine mass-transit bus designed in 30 and 35-feet lengths, large orders for the CBW were received from the Southern California Rapid Transit District (Los Angeles), the Chicago Transit Authority and New Orleans RTA.

In 1983, the forward-control version of the Corsair was replaced by a far more modern Cavalier. Based on an International Harvester chassis, the Cavalier improved driver usability and ergonomics over its predecessor. As it was sold in limited numbers, the rear-engine Corsair remained in production.

In 1984, the Carpenter conventional (now called the Classic) received its most extensive updates in nearly 20 years. After fewer than 150 buses were sold, sales of the CBW mass-transit line were discontinued in that year.

In 1985, the company opened a chassis-manufacturing plant in Seymour, Indiana, although the plant would close within a year. In an expansion of the model line, Carpenter became one of the last major manufacturers (alongside Ward/AmTran) to introduce a school bus based on a cutaway van as it introduced the Clipper in 1985. The Clipper was a dual rear-wheel design sold primarily on a Chevrolet/GMC chassis.

In 1988, due to escalating costs, the North Vernon machine shop was closed down.

In 1989, the Cavalier was replaced by the Counselor, as the International Harvester chassis was replaced by a GMC chassis. For the last time, the rear-engine Corsair was produced.

In December 1989, with nearly $14 million in unpaid debt, Carpenter Body Works was forced to declare Chapter 11 bankruptcy. In 1990, Indianapolis-based businessman Dr. Beurt SerVaas formed a holding company (CBW, Inc) to acquire Carpenter Body Works. Although the company board (consisting primarily of the Foddrill family and supporters) were in favor of the acquisition, the United Auto Workers labor force rejected the proposal, due to massive labor concessions; it would take two weeks for an agreement to take place.

1991–2001: Struggle for identity
As it entered the 1990s, Carpenter was no longer a family-owned company, transitioning into the leadership formed by Dr. SerVaas. During the acquisition, the product line was called "the Cadillac of school buses"; as such, the company had high hopes for the future based on its moves early in the 1990s.

In May 1991, Carpenter purchased the tooling, product rights, and intellectual property of Crown Coach, a California-based manufacturer that had closed its doors two months prior. The original intent of the company was to restart production of the Crown Supercoach Series II under the Carpenter name, but the complexity of its unibody construction proved too expensive for mass production (the purchase price of the original Series II was over $125,000 in 1990, nearly twice as high as a competitive Blue Bird or Thomas). Introduced in 1989, the Series II had been the most updated bus from Crown Coach in 40 years. While Carpenter would have to shelve the Supercoach II as a whole, it did not go unnoticed. A number of elements were carried over for the bus that was brought to market in its place.

Introduced for 1992, the Carpenter Coach RE (Rear Engine) also served as the replacement for the long-running Corsair. Far more modern than its predecessor, the Coach utilized a chassis manufactured by the Crane Carrier Company of Tulsa, OK and was equipped with a Detroit Diesel 6v92 coupled with an Allison transmission. A minor change was added as the Clipper was renamed the Classmate.

In 1994, Carpenter leased the former Wayne plant in Richmond, Indiana and began producing RE and FE chassis. Though the Crane Carrier chassis designs were produced initially, Carpenter designed chassis were rapidly phased into production. In a joint venture, Carpenter expanded its cutaway-van model line by distributing single rear-wheel buses manufactured by Quebec-based manufacturer Les Enterprises Michel Corbeil (badged as both Carpenter and Corbeil vehicles).

Crown by Carpenter (1996–99)
As part of the 1991 purchase of the Crown Coach intellectual property, Carpenter inherited the rights to the Crown brand name. Though the Crown-influenced Carpenter Coach RE was withdrawn after 1993, the company revived the Crown name during an rebranding of the company in the second half of the 1990s. For 1996, Carpenter buses were sold under the name "Crown by Carpenter".

The same year, Carpenter leased the former facilities of Wayne Corporation (closed in 1992), moving company operations to Richmond, Indiana. Along with restarting a larger, more advanced facility, the company inherited the leadership and workforce of the former Wayne operations, bringing considerable experience and knowledge of the plant and industry to the effort. The Crown Classic inherited some parts from the Wayne Lifeguard, including its windshield, entry door, and driver's switch panel. Carpenter made several structural changes to the body, including a new roof design with single-piece roof bows and two sets of full-length rub rails. In adapting to the equipment at the Richmond plant, a change to the techniques of welding the roof joints from the procedures used before at Mitchell would later prove vital in excluding Crown by Carpenter products from containing a crucial structural flaw. That situation was not envisioned by anyone then and would only become an issue nearly a decade in the future.

The Crown by Carpenter line included three small small buses (Classmate single-rear wheel, built by Corbeil, Classmate dual rear-wheel, by Carpenter, and the Type B Cadet), the Crown Classic conventional school bus, and the Crown FE/RE transit-style (dropping the Counselor name). In an industry first, the Crown RE offered a rear-mounted emergency door (as an option), instead of the emergency exit window typical on rear-engine school buses. To make the option possible, the floor of the Crown RE was angled upward in the rear portion of the bus (to gain height over the engine compartment).

Alongside commercial-use variants of its school buses (also marketed as Crown by Carpenter), Carpenter also developed a Crown delivery truck loosely derived from its Cadet Type B school bus line.

In place of cash payment for the development of the Crown FE/RE, Carpenter offered chassis manufacturer Spartan Motors a ⅓ stake of the company in 1996. At the beginning of 1997, Spartan invested over $30 million of capital in Carpenter, with SerVaas, Inc. retaining a stake in the company. After Carpenter shut down production for four months during 1998, Spartan became the majority owner of the company.

Carpenter (2000–01)
In its return to production, Carpenter rebuilt its business strategy, shifting its objectives from production goals and market share towards quality, innovation, and design. Abandoning small buses altogether, the company moved towards a full-size conventional school bus, with transit-style school buses intended to be developed only as a secondary effort. The company retired the Crown by Carpenter branding, moving back to the Carpenter brand name; an all-new diamond company logo was nearly entirely from the Spartan Motors diamond logo.

Released in late 1999, the all-new Carpenter Classic 2000 conventional featured a structural redesign. Distinguished by its fully vertical rear body, larger entry and emergency doors, a redesigned windshield, and an all-new drivers area (with nearly all controls shared with the Wayne Lifeguard). The Crown FE was replaced in early 2000 by the Carpenter Chancellor, which featured the same structural changes of the Classic 2000.

Carpenter Chancellor RE
Intended as the flagship of the new Carpenter product lineup, the 2001 Chancellor RE rear-engine Type D (transit-style) school bus was built on a Spartan Motors chassis. Its chassis featured full air-ride suspension and double frame rails for a ride similar to a motorcoach; a flat floor inside the bus was created from the double frame as well as from the fitment of smaller-diameter wheels (19" vs. the standard 22.5"). Unlike its Crown RE predecessor, the Chancellor RE did not feature an option for a rear emergency door, opting instead for a window emergency exit traditionally seen on rear-engine school buses.

The combination of the Spartan Motors chassis with the Carpenter Chancellor body resembled (in some aspects) the massive workhorses built in California by Crown and Gillig in years past, many of which stayed in service for 25 years or longer. Only a single prototype was completed with a second bare chassis intended for display purposes. From all reports, the Chancellor was well-received, incorporating many components and features long desired by school bus operating and maintenance personnel.

In the context of the school bus industry, the Spartan Motors chassis was in reality a premium option, incorporating many of the features long sought in a school bus. However, there were several downsides to this approach which proved fatal to the effort. As one might reasonably anticipate, the extra durability came with added cost. Also, Spartan had been serving lower quantity and higher margin markets for similar products used for high-end Class A motor homes as well as fire and rescue apparatus. Although Spartan had entered the school bus market through supplying Carpenter (for nearly a decade), their production facilities were not geared up to produce a large volume under low pricing pressures, even though their products would have proved more durable in the long run. As such, Carpenter was no longer able to compete with AmTran, Blue Bird, or Thomas on price.

This was a familiar dilemma, the same one which earlier had helped seal the fate of the Crown and Gillig coaches on the West Coast, as well as the entry of competitor Blue Bird into the mass-transit market during the 1970s. It was also similar to the situation which faced HARSCO BMY (parent company of Wayne Wheeled Vehicles) operation some years earlier, where a lesser quantity of higher quality products (at a correspondingly higher price) had also been the plant's historical output.

Closure
For almost 20 years, Carpenter had been struggling between a variety of factors, including declining market share, reputation, and company finances. Though Spartan Motors considered its investment in Carpenter profitable in the long term, the parent company felt that school bus production itself was too much of a financial risk. At the beginning of October 2000, Spartan approved the liquidation of Carpenter, leading to the closure of the company.

Epilogue: Body structure concerns
On March 20, 2003 in Alachua County, Florida, a Carpenter school bus rolled over onto its roof. At the time of the accident, no passengers were on board and the driver survived the accident. In the rollover of the bus, the internal roof structure failed, causing much of the roof to collapse down to the level of the seats. Following the 2003 rollover accident, subsequent inspections of Carpenter school buses by operators in various parts of the United States revealed cracked and broken welds in their roof structures; the problem was not unique to the vehicle involved in the rollover crash.

In the initial investigation, the problem of cracked and broken roof welds were found in each type of Carpenter buses built at the Mitchell, Indiana facility prior to its 1995 closure. Crown by Carpenter buses and Carpenter buses built in Richmond, Indiana from 1996 to 2001 (which used a different design for its roof structure) were not found to have any issues with cracked or broken roof welds.

In a normal case, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) would have used the findings as part of a full-scale investigation. If the findings found any kind of manufacturers defect, a safety recall of the vehicles involved would be ordered by NHTSA. As Carpenter was no longer in existence, that procedure was impossible, as there would be no one for NHTSA to hold accountable for the design problem.

In June 2003, NHTSA introduced several advisories regarding Carpenter buses. As NHTSA could not offer its own recall due to the lack of a manufacturer and remained concerned about the problem, operators were recommended to inspect their own buses for cracked and broken welds in the roof structure.

In its 2003 advisories, if a Carpenter bus was found with cracked or broken roof welds, NHTSA recommended replacement of the bus; if not practical, repair of the problem and restriction of the bus to low-speed routes to minimize the chance of rollover. To avoid resale of affected vehicles to the public, NHTSA advised that the title of Carpenter buses removed from service to be branded as "scrap".

Products
Carpenter produced a product lineup of both small and full-size buses. Like other school bus manufacturers, the company also produced commercial, shuttle, and transit bus derivatives of their school bus designs. The Carpenter Cadet, introduced in 1969, was one of the first Type B school buses; during the Crown by Carpenter era, a modified version of the Cadet was marketed as a delivery van.

With the exception of "Classic", its Type C conventional and "Coach", its Type D rear-engine transit style (influenced by Crown Coach), most Carpenter school buses derived their model names from themes in education (Classmate, Cadet, Counselor, Chancellor) while many transit-style Carpenters derived their model names from common team names (Corsair, Cavalier).

Survivors
The Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of American History in Washington, DC has a thirty-six passenger school bus built by Carpenter Body Works in 1936 on a chassis made by Dodge in 1939. The bus carried students to the grade school in Martinsburg, Indiana from 1940 to 1946, and was owned and driven by Russell Bishop during that period. It was later used as a traveling grocery store until 1962.

The bus has a streamlined steel body painted double-deep or "Omaha" orange with black trim. It was restored by Carpenter in the early 1980s under the supervision of Ollie Eager, who was Carpenter's plant manager in 1936, and John Foddrill, who worked in the Carpenter plant in 1936. The bus has replacement seats that do not match the originals exactly. The originals were black upholstery.

title: Carpenter Body Company


text:
Talk:Cue stick

Rewording?
From article:
 * "The important factor when picking a cue is that it feels balanced to you and the weight and length give you confidence at the table. An irish linen wrap on the pool cue is nice as it give you a nice grip, and absorbs moisture from your hand. Irish Linen historically came from fishing line manufacturers in Ireland."

Encyclopedias never refer to the person reading them, the article needs to be reworded again. --Mattwolf7 (00:40, 21 Jan 2004)

 * This was in reference to the article as it was three years ago, so I'm marking this "Resolved". Any further concerns with article text should be raised in new topics. —  SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 09:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

The article is about "cue stick" within the scope of billiards, snooker, and other games where the cue is used to strike a ball. There is at least one other common type of cue: The Floor (aka "Deck") Shuffleboard cue. I would be helpful to readers, for this article to have near the beginning, a sentence or short paragraph about other types of cue sticks. Can that be done? Thanks. I would supply some references but am unsure of how to do much of that just yet. PoorWIliam (talk) 17:17, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Rename?
Unless there's a difference between pool cues, billiard cues, and snooker cues, I think this article should exist at cue (sport) or some such thing... Evercat 00:59, 21 Jan 2004 (UTC)
 * There are in fact differences, as the article now addresses. However, they do not all need articles, so the article has in fact been moved, not split. —  SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 09:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Improper move
Note that this article was cut'n'paste-moved from Pool cue --Improv 14:42, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I have merged in the two topics that were at Talk Pool cue, so it's no longer an issue, other than the edit history doesn't go back to the true beginning. We'd need admin attention to fix that. —  SMcCandlish [talk] [contrib] ツ 09:01, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Picture
Someone please change the picture, the cue isn't shown in enough detail it should have a cue with all of it's parts labelled. Here's the picture of a good one.

128.6.175.27 20:27, 6 February 2006 (UTC)

 * It shall be done. — ßottesiηi  Tell me what's up 16:49, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

Cue Materials
I've never heard of a cue being made of carbon fiber or aluminum. They usually have an inner core that is wood and the outside may be some other material. Changed this, as well as added some more information. 128.6.175.27 20:37, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
 * This may no longer be true; bears further research. The new Hybrid brand cue may or may not have a wood core. —  SMcCandlish  [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 01:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

I have seen aluminum cues; beer companies give them away as promotional tools. I've also seen aluminum cues for sale in discount stores. I've never seen one produced by a "known" cue-maker. They tend to bend and become unusable. I've never seen a carbon-fiber cue, but I've seen cues with a wood core that is jacketed with fiberglass. These are usually used as house cues, since the fiberglass resists denting and rough use.Jayess (talk) 22:25, 25 July 2008 (UTC)
 * Years later: Yeah, all the carbon fiber, fiberglass, etc., ones still have a wooden core so far as I've seen. I don't find anything reliably sourced on alternative materials, other than as antiques, or as experimental modern stuff that does not seem to be encyclopedically relevant (yet).  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:11, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

I sell totally woodfree cuesticks @ facebook.com/timberfreegraphitepoolsnookerbilliardscuesticks @ buypoolsnookerbilliardscuesportscuesticksonline.com — Preceding unsigned comment added by 117.212.126.25 (talk) 09:08, 15 November 2015 (UTC)

Improvement
I've expanded many topics as well as added some that I thought we're important. This article looks much better than when I first encountered it. Tell me what you think! 70.111.251.203 02:46, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Needs to be thoroughly converted to good prose, not prescriptive talk - MPF 00:45, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it definitely needs major cleanup work as noted by MPF. Lots of material added, but "Normally, one wants to..." language is not appropriate in an encyclopedia: Wikipedia is not a how-to book or an advice column. Retagging the article for cleanup. Also, you did not provide any sources at all, so you have effectively endangered the entire article for deletion per the no original research policy. —  SMcCandlish  [talk] [cont]  ‹(-¿-)› 01:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

Spelling?
Butt: "The butt of cheaper cues are usually spiced hardwood and a plastic covering while more high-end cues use solid rosewood or ebony." 'spiced'? or 'spliced' (I know essentially nothing about the subject). --204.112.214.216 23:23, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
 * Should have been "spliced". Fixed. —  SMcCandlish  [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 01:17, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

"Feel"
Hit or feel are very important to pool players, but never quantified. Obviously the perception of cue vibration or resonance is part of it (maybe all of it.) But these forces are not measured. And clearly people's perceptions vary. I think the current section on hit or feel is a bit pointless, because the author did not even try to quantify what is being discussed - good luck finding any scientific discussion of the topic.

Hit and feel are clearly subjective making any discussion on correlation between cue construction and perception of the forces involved in a hit very difficult to discuss in an objective fashion. Manufacturers love to talk about the hit or feel of their cues; but once again, they can't quantify anything.

I suggest the whole section be truncated. At very least it should attempt to explain what is meant by hit and feel. Of course I can only speculate what is meant. It seems clear that the factors involved are the ability of the cue stick to dissapate energy, and resonance (both upon impact and immediately afterwards.)

I agree completely. "Hit" and "Feel" are nonsense concepts developed by marketing firms and their paid endorsers, as is the concept of "deflection" or "squirt". Having this sort of nonsense in the Wikipedia article just lends credibility to the advertising claims of cue companies without providing any real, usable information to the reader. Jayess (talk) 10:49, 29 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Not true, actually, with regard to the latter two terms (very well sourceable cue sports physics concepts, and accurately measurable). I agree with the "hit" and "feel" assessment, at least as this has been written. I'm not sure anything encyclopedic can be written about them.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:09, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Reword
"There are also cues that have more, notably three to five" three to five what? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.252.46.221 (talk) 00:23, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Sneaky pete
I've taken this out of the "construction aspects" section:

 * A high-quality but plain two piece cue, that looks like one-piece, run-of-the-mill house or bar cue, is called a sneaky pete. Such cues have a joint that is wood-on-wood, and barely visible. The subterfuge often enables a hustler to fool unsuspecting gamblers into thinking that he or she is an unskilled player with no regard for equipment quality or finesse, until too late.

Is this term really well known in the world of cue sports? I think not, but please put it back if I'm wrong. pablo ::  ... hablo ... 13:36, 21 January 2009 (UTC)
 * It's extremely well know; ubiquitous even. Of course, the entry was unsourced, as is the bulk of the article. I think I sourced Sneaky Pete's etnry in the Glossary, so if anyone wants to place it back with a source, visit there.--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:46, 10 April 2009 (UTC)
 * Fixed. Rewrote it as well, to use fewer hyphenated phrases. —  SMcCandlish  [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 22:40, 13 April 2009 (UTC)

Cue maintenance
Moved this section to talk and removed the 'howto' tag from the top of the article. RJFJR (talk) 13:53, 27 October 2012 (UTC)

After prolonged use of a cue, it inevitably loses its perfect smoothness, shape, cleanliness, and feel. Tips usually start to mushroom if they are soft and they start to hold less chalk. Ferrules become the "blue-ring" infested house cues in pool halls and bars. Shafts develop a distinguished blue tint and aren't as smooth as when they were new. The glossy and shiny parts of the cue become dull, oily, and full of fingerprints. Wraps develop scents of smoke and sweat, and may even start to disentangle and come loose. The butts of cues may start to rattle and the bumpers on the end may be absent.

Tip
Various tools are used to maintain the domed shape of the tip and its rough texture, enabling enough chalk to be held on the surface. First trim the edges of the mushrooming excess leather that is over the diameter of the ferrule with a knife, razor, or specially designed tool. If a tip is left mushroomed, the shots will be less consistent and may lead to more miscues and scratches. Also, imparting spin on the ball is less accurate as opposed to a well-maintained tip. Then reshape with tip shapers (such as Williards Tip Shaper, ATROX tool, sandpaper, or other tools) which reshape the tip to look like the preferred curvature. Finally, use a rougher sandpaper, a tip scuffer, and/or tip pick to roughen and perforate the tip, respectively. Scuffers and sandpaper are known to reduce tip size over time if used too liberally (periodically). That is the reason tip picks were designed; they poke holes into the tip so that there are perforations for chalk to be embedded into. This serves the same purpose in allowing more chalk to be held on the tip. Though these tools are useful, it is not recommended to use them too often. Usually one wants to "tune-up" the tip after it has started to mushroom, or poor performance is noticed, or before an important game such as a tournament. Using tip tools too much decreases the lifetime of the tip. Chalk is naturally abrasive to the tip and if chalked periodically (every turn), it should keep the tip rough enough. Tips should be replaced before its side wears down to not less than 1 mm from the ferrule. Using a tip thinner than this risks damaging the ferrule, a potentially more expensive repair than a new tip. A replacement tip generally costs from 25 cents to $25, excluding an installation service charge, which usually costs $10 or less.

Ferrule
Next item down is the ferrule. If one looks around at most house cues in pool halls and bars, one will notice distinguished blue rings around the ferrule (if the chalk used is blue). This is because of poor chalking technique. Many beginners tend to chalk their cues too hard and in a circular motion. In general this would be ok, but the problem is they do not know when to use a new chalk. Chalk should be replaced when it has a hole that is relatively deep. When people use chalk that has a large hole in it and rotate the chalk in a circular motion, it makes the ring around the ferrule. This ring is usually hard to get rid of unless taken care of early. Different chalks have different stain factors and powdery breakdown that can determine how hard it is to remove the stain. For light stains, one can quickly wipe it away with the fingers or a tissue; it is best to refrain from using damp products near a cue because if moisture gets into the wood it can ruin it due to the expansion and contraction of the water. Certain cleaning products can also be used to clean the stain, but it is best to prevent the stain in the first place. When chalking, one should do a light circular motion as well as scraping the whole chalk cube across points that are not covered well with chalk. Done correctly over a substantial time, the chalk has a shallow hole and is relatively flat. This is because one is chalking lightly and not grinding the chalk into the tip, as well as scraping, so that even if there were high walls around the deep hole, they would wear down after some time.

Shaft
A heavy chalker will usually also have a blue tint shaft (from blue chalk, other colors for other colored chalk). Exceptionally powdery or stainable chalks trickle down from the tip down to the shaft and as one strokes, one spreads the chalk on the shaft and stain it over time. This cannot be helped in some places where it is dirty and players place chalk incorrectly on the table, thus getting it on the hands and table cloth even more. After chalking the cue, one should place the chalk facing up so that the process of putting the chalk down does not fling powdered chalk onto the table, thus lessening the amount that gets on the hands and subsequently on the cue, or put it in a pouch (snooker players). Good chalk etiquette also lessens chalk on the table cloth, which can damage the cloth over time by the balls rolling and carrying chalk with it as it rolls and cuts microfibers in the cloth, eventually giving it a fuzzy feel. Basically it will prolong the life of the pool table as well. To clean the shaft after it has been stained, use a very slightly damp cloth/tissue and wipe it down and then dry it right away. That should remove surface stains, but if the stains have gone without care for a long time, one may need to use very fine sandpaper and/or steel wool, or even a toned down (household)vinegar solution. This will actually remove a tiny layer on the shaft and get rid of the stain, but it will also open up the pores in the wood of the shaft to be more susceptible to future staining or damage, which is why one should burnish the wood to close up the pores. This is a home remedy, and is not as good as a professional cleanup on a cue lathe. These methods are also good for regaining the smoothness lost from dirty hands, chalk, and dirt buildup on the shaft. Another way to keep the shaft clean is to keep the hands clean by washing them frequently, since hands usually get sweaty after playing for a long period of time. Some players like to bring a towel with them to tournaments, allowing for them to wipe their hands as well as wipe down their cue; tissues and napkins work just as well if they are clean. One might even bring two small towels: one wet, the other dry.

Joint
A cue's joint sometimes is not perfectly sealed and can get moisture in the wood if it is exposed. In humid areas with large temperature changes, this might ruin the joints and thus the cue itself. To protect the joints, one can purchase a cue case or joint protectors that cover the joints for added protection. Joints are also a frequent place where grease is attracted, especially in brass versions. To remove this grease, fine wool wire can be used (grade 0-0), or simply Brasso(tm). A bit of graphite (pencil) is put on the male end, to prevent any loud squeeks.

Butt
The butt end of the cue requires the least amount of maintenance because players do not touch it much outside the wrap. A quick wipedown with a slightly damp cloth on the areas with a wood finish (not the wrap) followed by a dry wipedown should get rid of any dirt, oil, and fingerprints. Using a bit of linseed oil prevents it from becoming brittle. The wrap may smell or become loose. The smell is from wherever one plays as well as sweaty or dirty hands. Although it cannot be washed, it can be replaced. As with the other maintenance issues, prevention is better than replacement of a cue part. Certain materials for the wrap fare better than others. For instance, Irish Linen will not loosen like other wrap materials because it gets stronger as it gets wet.

Rattling butts may be due to bad construction or the joint needs some attention. It could also be a loose weight inside the butt, a crack in the butt end or the cue may just require a new tip. It should not affect game play except psychologically.

Preventing the loss of bumper is easy; do not play around with them and they should not come loose. If a bumper does become loose, tighten it up again, possibly using a screwdriver.

Cue care in general
To minimize the risk of warping, a cue stick should not be leaned on its tip against anything, and it should be kept in a place that varies little in temperature. Normally, a cue is kept in a soft or hard cue case for easy transport and protection from moisture, the elements, and sudden temperature changes. An abrasive sandpaper should not be used on a cue with a protective finish, as this will scratch or remove it. Every 12 months or so it is advisable to apply a little raw linseed oil on the shaft and wipe dry after leaving overnight.

Pivot points
Moved to talk as unreferenced (and possible howto) RJFJR (talk) 13:56, 27 October 2012 (UTC) Each shaft has its own "pivot point" which is directly determined by the amount of cue ball deflection or "squirt" it produces. The calculated pivot point for each shaft is measured from the front of the tip. If one bridges exactly at a shaft's pivot point and holds the bridge very steady, one can pivot the cue by moving one's back hand and no matter where one strikes the cue ball it will track off on the same line as if struck dead center. Pivot points are interesting and may be useful but the player must also consider "swerve" and "throw". Swerve is the tendency of the cue ball to curve slightly in the direction of the applied sidespin, like a mild form of. Throw is caused by the friction between the cue ball and the object ball and is much stronger than most realize – for example, if one shoots a straight in shot firmly with left spin and hit the back of the pocket, if a snapshot could be taken at the moment the cue ball contacts the object ball one would see that the balls are actually aligned significantly to the left of the center of the pocket. There is a popular "pivot point test" that uses this sort of straight shot to determine pivot points but because the throw effect was not considered people have been getting wildly inaccurate results.
 * It's true, and could be edited down easily to be non-howto, but does need a reliable source (not a deadlink to a WP:SPS. :-)  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:06, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

In other sports and games
Moved to talk, is this really the kind of cue the article is about? RJFJR (talk) 13:56, 27 October 2012 (UTC) Small cue sticks are also used in the tabletop puck game novuss and other cued variants of carrom. In deck shuffleboard long cues are used to propel pucks down the court. Unlike billiard cues, but more like the ancestral mace, the shuffleboard cue features a broad head, used for shoving, but not striking. The head is sometimes similar to an elongated croquet mallet, but more commonly it is not unlike a small shovel with an edge that may either be straight, or curved in a half-moon shape to better hold and direct the puck. The implement may be all-wooden, or made of other materials, such as metal, plastic or fiberglass.
 * It's still a cue. All these implements derive ultimately from something called the mace, similar to a golf putter.  I think the article goes into this in detail sufficient to make this clear, but I guess it could enriched somewhat. We probably really need a Cue (sports) page and Puck (sports) page to generally cover billiards and non-billiards cues, and hockey and non-hockey pucks, respectively, per WP:CONCEPTDAB and WP:SUMMARY.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  02:05, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

cue tip size "Don't convert"
I went to add what I perceive as missing conversions in this article for the cue tip sizes, which are given in mm only when then rest of the article uses imperial measurements first. However, I see there is a hidden comment, "Don't convert; cue tips are ALWAYS specified in mm, even in the US". As I understand the point of the convert template it is to help readers who are unfamiliar with either metric or imperial units, rather than any reflection of how they are specified in the source (c.f. Road speed limits in the United Kingdom). I therefore think that this article would be better if the mm tip sizes are converted to imperial measurements, but with a footnote (including a citation) that the tip sizes are specified in mm even in countries that use imperial for other cue dimensions. Or am I missing something? Thryduulf (talk) 23:16, 11 March 2015 (UTC)
 * I've left messages inviting comments at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Cue sports and Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style. Thryduulf (talk) 19:42, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

 * I agree with you; I would add the conversions. If people are likely to be misled into thinking tip sizes are measured in inches in the US but this is not the case, we could make the HTML comment into a visible footnote. -sche (talk) 19:57, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

 * How is it done on articles relating to guns and ammunition? This seems comparable to that. Formerip (talk) 20:11, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
 * Looking at the Calibre article and a random selection of articles linked from it, my impression is that the area is a complete mess. The most common seems to use conversions most of the time, but some don't use them except in the infobox, sometimes they're treated as names and sometimes as dimensionless numbers. .22 Long Rifle for example seems to use all styles. Thryduulf (talk) 21:02, 12 March 2015 (UTC)
 * (copied over from WT:MOS by 174.141.182.82 (talk) 17:33, 13 March 2015 (UTC)) Not knowing the details, I would accept that statement to mean you should not use the disp=flip option on convert. Vegaswikian (talk) 19:42, 12 March 2015 (UTC)

 * I guess it's harmless conversion, as long as we state in the article that they're specified in mm even in the US. Same goes for ounces. I bought cue in Europe the other year, and its weight was given in ounces, not grams or kilos.  Some traditions die hard.  — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼  01:59, 19 August 2015 (UTC)

Title change
Perhaps the title of this page should be 'pool cues' as opposed to 'cue stick'. I know, as an avid pool player and collector for 30 years, that the obvious search for me to find information about pool cues on wikipedia would be to search for 'pool cues', not 'cue sticks'. That name 'cue sticks' is stuck in the 1970's and earlier. The category of 'pool cues' could then be subcategorized into 'carom cues', 'custom pool cues', 'billiard cues', 'production cues', and such. They are all unique with their own history and worthy of their own articles.

Tyankee (talk) 01:01, 16 April 2015 (UTC)tyankee

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Not an American game
Judging by the lingo, the casual observer would assume that cue sports are of american invention, completely bypassing the British/Indian root connection - ivory balls (elephants), etymology of terms such as snooker, billiards, etc which are definitely non-american.

Much of this Wankerpedia article is so americentric that it borders on being unencyclopaedic. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Samsbanned (talk • contribs) 17:21, 24 October 2017 (UTC)
 * "American" only appears in the article twice, in both cases back-to-back with mention of the UK or Europe. This article happens to have been written in American English, so it will naturally use American vocabulary (fiber, aluminum), just as almost all snooker articles are written in British English and use spellings appropriate for it; see MOS:ENGVAR.  For any cue-sports-specific term that is different in North American versus British/Commonwealth usage, it's perfectly permissible to do something like   (just make sure that there are entries at Glossary of cue sports terms that match the templated terms); or to write something more explanatory, as we did about "side", "sidespin" and "english".  I.e., don't vent and fingerpoint; WP:JUSTFIXIT.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ<  19:00, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

Non-leather tips
A certain editor seems to be oblivious to other people's preferences. Not everyone eats meat or enjoys playing with the remnants of a carcass attached to the tip of one's cue. Stop being a smart arse and pay attention to others' needs. Samsbanned (talk) 19:03, 24 October 2017 (UTC) Have it as you will. I really don't care. I won't waste my time talking a contrary point of view as you seem to have your head screwed on one way. Don't thank me for my contribution either (why do I even bother with Wankerpedia control freaks?). Feel free to delete everything you didn't write. Samsbanned (talk) 19:10, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

 * See WP:NPOV policy, and WP:COATRACK. It is not permissible to hijack an article about one topic to advance a socio-political agenda about vegetarianism or anything else. See also WP:CIVIL and WP:BATTLEGROUND; if you continue to interpret every disagreement with you (and continue to ignore the policy-based rationales people give you for their disagreement) you are not going to last long here.  This is not a game for you to try to win, it is an encyclopedia with extremely specific editing requirements.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ<  19:20, 24 October 2017 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cue stick