text:
Talk:Rerum novarum

Lack of a Critical Section.

There is no section of criticism in the article. For example, it can be argued that the concept of a "fair wage" is meaningless - and if this "fair" wage is declared above what supply and demand would produce, then it means unemployment. Also, as the late W.H. Hutt pointed out in the "Strike Threat System" - unions and collective bargaining are not an "alternative" to state intervention as they rest upon it (otherwise an employer would hire other people when a "strike" is called and the para military practice of "picketing" would be treated as obstruction of the entrance or exit of a place of business) and that collective bargaining tends to lead to mass unemployment. Also the astonishing rise (yes rise) in the living standards of workers was obvious by 1891 - Pope Leo XIII writes more as if wages and conditions of work were still as they had been in the 1830s or 1840s.2A02:C7D:B5E6:6400:AD2B:A9D:173E:AEDF (talk) 07:37, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

In the very first paragraph Pope Leo XIII writes about the "prevailing moral degeneracy" - in 1891, the height of the Victorian Age. Was society less "morally degenerate" in 1791 or 1691? And Pope Leo XIII also writes (again in the very first paragraph) of the utter poverty of the masses - in 1891 when living standards had never been higher in human history. This article desperately needs a Critical Section - as it is the claims that Pope Leo XIII made in 1891 go unchallenged.2A02:C7D:B5E6:6400:4D44:3FC8:294A:1F2D (talk) 11:46, 25 May 2017 (UTC)

Untitled
"Anglican clergyman with evangelical leanings, and brought a sensibility to the modern Catholic Church that had its origins in the work of John Wesley" -I'm thinking that might have a point of view problem. I place this here to see if any of the writers of this article wish to change their work before I attempt. gren
 * This page has obviously been vandalised. As I'm not a registered user I cannot revert the vandalisms. The template now places the page on deletion requests instead of being just an alert - so I cannot use that to raise the alarm. What to do?  --157.157.209.20 23:28, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

The passage "At the time his support for unions and a living wage were viewed as radically leftist. Yet other statements seem to be opposed to capitalism as well" is awkward to me as it seems to be saying the document was seen as "Radically leftist, yet opposed to capitalism." I suppose the point is that not only the support for unions and a living wage were opposed to capitalism, but there must be a better way to put this. I also intend to add something about Distributism. Zerobot 14:27, 31 March 2006 (UTC)

 * I think "Radically leftist, yet opposed socialism" would be more accurate and meaningful. Opposing socialism, communism, and the Manchester capitalism made it a bit unusual.--T. Anthony 04:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

POV
"The encyclical and its impact" section is pure propaganda. There are numerous biased claims, a few of them are that it states that the book "refuted" the claims of socialists, and the section says, "While individual positions or statements have been debated, the work was remarkable as a summary of many issues raised by the industrial revolution and modern democratic societies." The vast majority of people disagree the basic claims of the encynical (or at least large sections of it), not only indivdual statements. This article also fails to include critism of it and its assosication with fascism. 72.139.119.165 18:47, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I made the section NPOV now, but work could still be done on it. 72.139.119.165 01:18, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

This article is now part of the Roman Catholic's agenda for propagating their faith. It needs to be completely revamped as to what this document was and what it means and fascist dictators that used this document to support them in the tyrannical dictates in their countries. Propaganda by Catholic editors on wikipedia should be hindered. The readers and researchers in wikipedia community deserve the truth. Not the output of the Roman agenda through their Universal Church which the pope says is the only Christian church on earth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tlthe5th (talk • contribs) 17:05, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Note what has happened to the article Fascism. A year or two ago it mentioned how the text from 1891 from the pope was the origin of corporatism which later became fascism. Now that background has been removed. Look at the article Corporatism, click on History and go back two pages of 500 changes. Then you find this text: "Corporatism is a form of class collaboration put forward as an alternative to class conflict, and was first proposed in Pope Leo XIII's 1891 encyclical Rerum Novarum, which influenced Catholic trade unions that organised in the early twentieth century to counter the influence of trade unions founded on a socialist ideology. Theoretical underpinnings came from the medieval traditions of guilds and craft-based economics; and later, syndicalism. Corporatism was encouraged by Pope Pius XI in his 1931 encyclical Quadragesimo Anno."

As Wikipedia has become more and more important, it is often the first source people turn to for information, powerful interest groups, like the Catholic church or its devotees have become involved in rewriting articles which can damage its reputation.

If you read Rerum Novarum carefully you will see that the pope expresses his concerns over the class struggle, the workers unions and the workers movements growing power. The pope suggests a counter-strategy. Instead of horizontal labor unions, where the poor workers in many factories and corporations go together and get a lot of power the pope suggests vertical labor unions, in which all workers in a certain corporation, from the rich owner down to the lowest paid workers form a labor union which then has to be loyal to the company, the corporation. That vertical organization would defuse the workers movement and the socialist parties. Roger491127 (talk) 21:15, 21 November 2010 (UTC)

Patrick_Joseph_Buchanan
When Pat describes himself w/ what sounds like this phrase, this term, to which element does he refer, please?

[[ hopiakuta Please do  sign  your  signature  on your  message. %7e%7e  Thank You. -]] 22:05, 9 April 2009 (UTC)

God on the side of the poor
This document wasn't the first expression of that fact. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.189.103.145 (talk) 20:13, 21 August 2010 (UTC)

Italics
Shouldn't the bolded translated title also be italicized even though it is not the actual Ecclesiatical Latin title but rather a translation? 75.216.205.78 (talk) 16:07, 29 September 2012 (UTC)

Translation of title
"Rerum novarum" does not mean "On the New Things"! To translate "res novae" by "new things" is like translating "hot dog" into French as "chien chaud." "Res novae" is a fixed phrase or idiom meaning (to quote the Oxford Latin Dictionary) "constitutional changes, revolution." That is what it has always meant in Latin, and that is how Leo is using it here: "Rerum novarum semel excitata cupidine, quae diu quidem commovet civitates..." is rendered (in the Wikisource translation) "That the spirit of revolutionary change, which has long been disturbing the nations of the world..." It should be translated "Of revolution" if it must be translated in the first line of the article. I am not going to make the change myself because I can foresee the Wikiwar that would ensue and I have no stomach for it, not to mention no desire to spend my time monitoring this article and talk page. But I'm putting it here so that anyone who cares about the actual meaning of Latin, as opposed to what you get by looking things up word by word in a beginner's dictionary, and cares more about this article than I do can have a go at correcting it. Languagehat (talk) 13:40, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * Well, "Of revolution" is misleading—that could imply revolution is the topic of the encyclical, which it isn't, it's just the first two words. That's why I wrote "if it must be translated in the first line"; it doesn't make much sense to translate the first two words out of context. Languagehat (talk) 14:15, 5 March 2013 (UTC)
 * I've removed it. The article is about the entire encyclical so just translating the first two words, out of context, is not necessary. Especially given the problematic/misleading nature of the translation. SQGibbon (talk) 16:30, 5 March 2013 (UTC)

Article name change and changes to first paragraphs
Here are proposed edits to the article, to its name and to the first paragraphs. Welcome any thoughts on them. Would like to submit the final edits on Tue 11-15-16. This is my first Talk post. frank435 R Rerum novarum From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Down loaded 12 November 2016 at 9:20 ET Includes 10 November 2016 edits by  AndyFinkenstadt

1-change article name from” Rerum Novarum” to “Rerum Novarum Introduction” or “Introduction to Rerum Novarum” (no preference for either one ,please indicate yours) (reason-more accurate as to what article is about and more compliant with wiki guidelines)

2-paragraphs changes

Rerum Novarum is considered a foundational text of modern Catholic social teaching.[6]

(reason - moved from latter paragraph to first statement b, informs user upfront of the notability of the encyclical ,relevancy of this article and encourages them to read more)

Rerum Novarum (from its first two words, Latin for "of revolutionary change"[n 1]), or Rights and Duties of Capital and Labor, is an encyclical issued by Pope Leo XIII on 15 May 1891. It was an open letter, to "patriarchs, primates, archbishops and bishops(31), concerning Catholic doctrine on the Rights and Duties of Capital and Labor”(2), that addressed the condition of the working classes.

This article is intended to provide an introduction .to the encyclical, providing some insight into its purpose ,scope ,depth and  the actionable information the encyclical provides.

(reason-provides user with the intent ,purpose of the article, make it more compliant with wiki guidelines and encourages them to read more)

Further information can be obtained about Rerum Novarum ,for example, from other wiki articles and the english version ,downloadable using  the Vatican site link in this article.

The English translation is approximately 14000 words with 64 numbered paragraphs. This article references 15 of the 64 numbered paragraphs.

(reason- from MS word counts and my counts ,more accurate and transparent as to scope of article is about and more compliant with wiki guidelines)

Rerum Novarum discussed the relationships and mutual duties between labor and capital, as well as government and its citizens. Of primary concern was the need for some amelioration of "The misery and wretchedness pressing so unjustly on the majority of the working class."[5] It supported the rights of labor to form unions, rejected socialism and unrestricted capitalism, whilst affirming the right to private property.

Rerum Novarum is considered a foundational text of modern Catholic social teaching.[6]

Many of the positions in Rerum Novarum were supplemented by later encyclicals, in particular Pius XI's Quadragesimo anno (1931), John XXIII's Mater et magistra (1961), and John Paul II's Centesimus annus (1991). Frank435 (talk) 16:13, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

 * Oppose name change. Why unnecessarily limit the scope? This is not a tutorial or a class, it is an encyclopedia article. All the other encyclical articles are named the same way. Elizium23 (talk) 17:17, 12 November 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rerum novarum


text: Template:Victorian railway lines

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Template:Victorian railway lines


text:
Belgreen, Alabama

Belgreen is a census-designated place and unincorporated community in Franklin County, Alabama, United States, located nine miles west of Russellville and around 17 miles east of Red Bay on Alabama Highway 24. As of the 2010 census, its population was 129. Belgreen is a small district, composed of a condensed area of residency, the school, a small businesses.

Demographics
Belgreen was listed on the 1880 U.S. Census at the time it served as Franklin County Seat. It did not appear again until 2010 when it was listed as a Census Designated Place or CDP.

History
Belgreen was the county seat of Franklin County between 1878 and 1891. A post office was established in 1879, but it was later closed. The Franklin County Career Technical Center is now located on the site where the county courthouse and jail once stood. Due to this, the road between the Career Technical Center and the Science Hall of Belgreen High School is named Jail Springs Road. The courthouse and jail existed on this site after the county seat was moved from Frankfort, which is approximately seven miles north of Belgreen. The courthouse complex existed on the current grounds of the Career Technical Center until it burned and was eventually moved to Russellville.

Another interesting note is that the building that now exists as part of the After-School program at Belgreen High School was once a canning plant, one of the many businesses that once existed in Belgreen. Other businesses also included a second gas station and country store at the beginning of Highway 49, as well as a barber shop at the four-way intersection.

Belgreen High School
Any description of Belgreen would be incomplete without a given history of Belgreen High School, which has existed just south of Alabama Highway 24 for over sixty years.

The story of the naming of Belgreen tells of a young lawyer (who would later become a Franklin County Probate Judge) named Richard S. Watkins. Watkins named the town of Belgreen for a young lady named Belle, whom he was courting at the time. Other sources suggest the name was a purely subjective description of the local geography, constructed from the French word "bel", an adjective meaning "beautiful", and "green". At first, the name was spelled "Bellegreen." The spelling was changed over the years to Bellgreen and later to Belgreen as it is today. Another story recounts that a man named Abner Judd named the town for the beautiful woods and green hillsides in the area.

Between 1878 and 1891, the Franklin County seat was located at Belgreen. A courthouse was built there in 1879 on the site of the present campus of Belgreen High School. The courthouse burned in 1890, which prompted the move of the county seat back to Russellville.

In 1878 or 1879, the first school building was constructed of logs. The seats were made of rough split stumps. This building stood near the present-day intersection of AL HWY 24 and AL HWY 187 where Hester's Store (now defunct) once stood. B.R. Fite was the first official principal of the school. The second site of the school was located east of the present site of Belgreen School. Two large rooms were built there in 1881 with a "Woodmen of the World" meeting room overhead. Nate Redwine served as the principal. The school grew rapidly in the early 1900s. There were so many students that some classes were held at the nearby Methodist Church building and in the old jailhouse located nearby.

Credit is given to Mr. and Mrs. John R. Guin for beginning Belgreen High School. They moved to Belgreen in 1902 and lived in the "old jail" building, adjacent to the site of the former courthouse. Mrs. Guin taught school in her living room in their early years at Belgreen, and later on, she also taught in the upstairs room of the jail. She is called the "mother of Belgreen school" for all of the kind things she did for school students and others in the community. Mrs. Guin also served as the postmaster of the town.

Mr. John R. Guin was a teacher. He went on to serve as superintendent of the Franklin County school system until he retired in 1931. He owned the first car in Belgreen and often lent it to be used as the community school bus.

In 1922 a vocational building was added to the campus. It was replaced in the mid 1960s with a new home economics/agriculture building. The old vocational building was renovated and served as the school's media center until the old main building was demolished and a new building was constructed in 2000.

The first graduation commencement was held at Belgreen in 1925. Around this time, many of the smaller community schools were consolidated or abolished, sending students to join their counterparts at Belgreen.

The original main building was constructed in 1934. This brick veneer building consisted of five classrooms, an auditorium, and two offices (one of which served as the library). Otto Holloway served as the principal. An elementary wing was added to the original building in 1937 which contained eight classrooms over a spacious basement area. This building was nearly identical to the Red Bay High School constructed in 1927. The building was a brick "U," one of the most popular school designs in Alabama at the time. Facing the school, the right wing of the "U" housed the elementary classes while the left wing held the high school. Once inside the school, after going under the stone entryway, the office of the principal was on your immediate left. A small room on the right served as the library. A large auditorium with double wooden seats that could be folded and stored was centrally located between the two wings.

During Talmadge Lee's term as principal in 1940, a brick veneer home economics and agriculture building was constructed.

Belgreen has a state championship basketball team for two years in a row, 1949–1950. During this time, a concrete gymnasium was built across the highway from the main buildings.

Indoor restrooms were first added to the school in 1952 and other improvements were made at that time. A cafeteria was built in 1958 while James Glasgow served as principal.

A tunnel was constructed by the Alabama Highway Department in the early 1960s to allow students a safe route from the main campus to the gymnasium located across the street. Also during the 1960s, additional classrooms were constructed and the gymnasium was renovated and enlarged.

Belgreen High School was accredited by the Southern Association of Schools in 1960. The Franklin County Area Vocational Center, located adjacent to the school's campus, was constructed in 1975 to offer vocational and technical courses for students from all the system's schools.

Graduation of the class of 2001 ended almost 70 years of service for the main building, which was demolished later that year. At that time, construction was begun on a two-level modern building which contains numerous classrooms, offices, and a media center. The graduating class of 2001/2002 attended classes in makeshift buildings without the use of a proper building. Additionally, this class was the first to enter the new building as a student body prior to their graduation ceremonies in May 2002. Students and faculty moved into the new building in October 2002. Four years later, in 2007 a new lunchroom was completed directly in front of the old agricultural and home economics building. Also, a new gymnasium is being constructed next to the old gym and the baseball field, which should be in use in time for the 2007/2008 school year. The current gymnasium will remain standing to be used for practice and physical education class facilities.

Today
Belgreen is now known mostly for the basketball program at the high school, for which the girls' team won a 1A state championship in 2002. The size of Belgreen will be reduced somewhat after the planned addition of a four lane on Alabama Highway 24. The new lane of Highway 24 should cut through the area on the south side of Highway 24 in the only four-way intersection of the town.

What keeps the community of Belgreen alive today is the school and the surrounding area. Belgreen High School received a new state-of-the-art building during the Summer of 2002, which regenerated interest in the area. Also near this condensed area are many well-attended churches, as well as a community fire department house.

The Firehall - Located in close proximity, the firehall is home to the Belgreen Volunteer Fire Department. It also serves as a polling place during elections.

The Underground Lake - Locals tell stories of an underground body of water. Supposedly it is located near Belgreen High School, but there are as many alleged locations as there are people who have supposedly visited the "lake." Purported locations of the "Underground Lake" are under Belgreen High School, "down the road from BHS," etc. The lake, however, is not a myth. People are merely confused as to its real location. It is located under the hill that the Belgreen Church of Christ sits on. It is known for a fact that the entrance is located on a separate, privately owned property. It is also said that fish with no eyes occupy the lake.

The Rock Cut - This is a section of a large rock formation that is cut out, allowing for a smooth transition of Highway 24 from Russellville to Belgreen. It is actually the bottom of an ancient ocean, and the same limestone deposit is quarried elsewhere in the Belgreen area. The "Rock Cut" is a commonly referred to feature in local oral directions. The cut will have to be widened once the new lane of Highway 24 reaches it. It is unique cut from an engineering standpoint, as it is cut so as to allow for a four-way intersection. This gives it a cross-shape, which is obvious when viewed from the air.

Cedar Creek - Cedar Creek is a local body of water that is mostly known as a popular area for bass fishing. It is a part of the Bear Creek lake system, operated by the Tennessee Valley Authority. During the summer, fishing tournaments are held here nearly every weekend.

Glasgow Corners - Glasgow Corners is a local intersection approximately three miles south from the school, which is commonly referenced in many oral directions.

Slickrock - "Slickrock" refers to a number of public facilities provided by TVA around the northern portions of Belgreen along Cedar Creek. Features include a swimming area, a campground, and a boat launch. These locations are usually more popular during the summer, as Cedar Creek is drained by TVA during the cold weather months.

Notable people

 * I. T. Quinn, conservationist who served as game commissioner of Alabama and Virginia and was one of the founders of the National Wildlife Federation
 * Oscar Tompkins, member of the United States House of Representatives for the Houston County district

title: Belgreen, Alabama


text:
Talk:List of political parties in Germany

Untitled
I think it's wrong to call the DP an historical party because it yet existing, but perhaps somebody has strong arguments for leaving things as they are, so I don't change it yet.--Kiffahh 23:52, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

There is a mistake. The CDU/CSU is not right of center. They're just center.

CDU/CSU are right of center like the SPD is left of center.

 * This is a matter of semantics, but most people would consider these parties to be right of center. Electionworld 20:42, 28 October 2005 (UTC)

The Left Party is no communist party, they have been in government in Berlin and Mecklenburg-Vorpommern.

CDU/CSU aren´t centre-right. They´re just center. The Left Party is no full communist party, but they are in parts communism. For example it gives the "Kommunistische Plattform" (Communism Part), the "Marxistisches Forum" (Marxism Forum) or "Cuba Si" (Yes to the existence of state Cuba). All are far-left. Deutscher Patriot 22:14, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

 * You make it seem that all German parties are centrist: there is no differentiation between SPD, CDU and FDP. According to Gallagher, Laver and Mair (2001) Representative Government in Modern Europe (pp.178-182) The CDU can be characterized as a centre right, conservative party. Could you provide me any academic references for the supposed centrism of the CDU? - C mon 00:00, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

 * First of all I want to say that all this parties claim for themselves to be a center-party.
 * Examples: Die Mitte ist rot (Center is red) In allusion to the german-flag (SPD), Die neue Mitte (The new center) (SPD), CDU - Die moderne Volkspartei der Mitte (CDU - The modern peoples party of center) (CDU), Die goldene Mitte (The golden center) (FDP). Even Günther Beckstein, left wing of CSU, said: "Die CSU ist eine Partei der Mitte, in der sich auch die demokratische Rechte wohlfühlen muss" (The CSU is a centrist-party, in that also the democratic rights have to feel fine). And of course it gives differences between this three parties, this has nothing to do with that. The "left/right-system" is anyshow obsolete. For other explains look at my talk. Deutscher Patriot 14:32, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

I've never seen the CDU described as anything but "centre-right." That all parties try to claim the center in their campaign materials is irrelevant. I do, however, wonder at the designation of the FDP as "right." In some ways (economics, particularly) it is more right wing than the CDU/CSU, but in other ways it is more to the left. I think it should also be described as center-right. john k 15:34, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Do you live in Germany? In Germany nobody still use the "Left/Right-System". It is obsolete. So you have to orientate on Definitions. And I think parties, which extra call up for debates, whether it is allowed to be patriotism or not, or in they are Minister-Presidents, who entitle themselves "Arbeiterführer" (King of Workers) can´t be in whole as right of center classed. And FDP should be right? This is nonsense. Deutscher Patriot 16:04, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

One of the parties is called the "Left  Party," for god's  sake. I don't live in Germany, obviously, but I don't trust anything you say about the subject, as you're clearly exaggerating to a ridiculous extent - all Europeans that I know use left and right as the basic terms of political discourse. I will note that I said that the FDP should be centre-right, not "right," as it was before. john k 16:25, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

This is not a case of where you live, but it is a case of getting sources: clear academic sources. I've already give you Peter Mair's book as a source, can you provide me anything else than your intuition or party slogans to prove your statements? C mon 20:22, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

 * you're going to be waiting a long time, C mon. john k 20:49, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

Is it true that Fdp is more to the right than Cdu? I thought that Fdp was more free-market oriented but the Cdu was a little more socially conservative, though not as the Csu. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.56.203.203 (talk) 10:11, 13 August 2009 (UTC)

I've updated this page to reflect the 2009 Federal Elections using data from the German_federal_election,_2009. The data are the aggregates based on representation in the Bundestag. Dave Cole - unoriginalname38 (talk) 09:31, 29 September 2009 (UTC)

I note that niether Richard Kunze's Deutschsoziale Partei nor the Deutschvölkischen Frei- heitspartei of Reinhold Wulle and Albrecht von Graefe-Goldebee are listed here.82.253.49.59 (talk) 06:30, 3 September 2010 (UTC) listed here. 82.253.49.59 (talk) 06:09, 3 September 2010 (UTC)

Minor parties
I think it's confusing to say "Germany has three minor parties" in the top of the article and then have a list with over 20 "minor parties". I have no idea how to solve it, but if anyone have one it would be great. Thanks in advance.77.21.73.116 (talk) 14:32, 18 March 2012 (UTC)
 * does three a the minor parties that are in parliament the others are not. So they could be described as mid-sized parties when you talk about all parties, yet they are the small or minor parties when you talk about parties in parliament178.210.114.106 (talk) 16:26, 30 January 2013 (UTC)

Why have some logos been deleted? Nillurcheier (talk) 07:51, 3 July 2015 (UTC)

CSU logo and fair use
I tried to "fix" the link to the CSU logo by replacing it with an actual image reference, but that is apparently not allowed under Wikipedia's fair use guidelines. Where exactly did I break it, and is there a workaround? --XndrK (talk | contribs) 16:19, 20 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Hi XndrK. I am the one who removed File:CSU logo.png from the article. Non-free images such as this are required to satisfy all 10 of the non-free content criteria listed at WP:NFCCP. One of these criteria is WP:NFCC which says that a separate, specific non-free use rationale is required for each use. This particular file has such a rationale for the file's use in Christian Social Union of Bavaria, but it it does not have one for this particular use. If adding a rationale is all that is needed to make using a non-free file compliant with WP:NFCC, then I would've added one myself. Unfortunately, decorative usage such as this in list articles, tables or galleries is generally not allowed per WP:NFLISTS and WP:NFTABLES. WP:NFCC requires that non-free use be contextually significant and WP:NFCC requires that non-free use be minimal. It can be argued that seeing the logo in the stand-alone article about the party significantly improve the reader's understanding to the degree that removing the logo would be detrimental to that understanding because the entire article is about the party itself and (ideally) there may be sourced content in the article specifically discussing the logo, etc. In a list article such as this, it's hard to make such a justification simply because the 60px logo just seems to be there for show; neither the party or logo itself is really the subject of any discussion and the list article is simply just a list of wikilinks to other more detailed articles. All the logos are being used in a manner similar to that described in MOS:LOGO which is generally not recommended for freely licensed or otherwise which makes it really hard to justify non-free use for this logo by simply by saying all the logos should be seen.

 * As for a possible work around, one option is to simply remove all the logos, freely licensed or otherwise, from the article. This might sound extreme and I am not saying it should be done, but there are plenty of similar articles where logos are not being used in this manner at all. Another possibility is to link to the non-free logo(s) like is currently done. Linking to non-free logos is fine, and not problematic with non-free policy. Some editors, however, do not like this because "Link to logo", etc. looks out of place/ugly compared to the other entries or because two links (one to the file itself and one to the stand-alone article) to essentially the same information seems redundant. One more option I can think of would be to find/create a freely licensed equivalent of the non-free logo for use in lists such as this. The text part of this particular logo and the other geometric shapes are almost surely too simple for copyright protection; it's the lion imagery that is problematic. Perhaps there is a way for someone at WP:GL/I or c:COM:GL/I to remove the copyrighted element of the element to allow it to freely licensed. I don't think its possible to convert the entire file to public domain using c:Template:PD-text logo, Template:PD-USonly or Template:PD-logo, but you can ask about this at c:COM:VP/C or WP:MCQ if you like. Finally, you could always contact the copyright holder of the logo (I assume that's the CSU) and ask them to agree to freely license the logo as explained in c:COM:OTRS. -- Marchjuly (talk) 01:41, 21 July 2016 (UTC)

FDDV
has not yet been founded according to Bundeswahlleiter. Please provide source for founding before reverting. --Nillurcheier (talk) 14:51, 18 February 2017 (UTC)

Accomplishments
The current and historic notability of a party is often not apparent to the average reader. I propose to add their most important accomplishments (no matter how old) in one free-text column. The highest number of seats and/or vote percentage for BT and EP (with year) would be useful. Government participation may include the vice-chancellor position or (on state level) ministers who are members of the Bundesrat. In particular, we could place the coalition details (that have been deleted recently with little explanation (but I am biased) in the table.

Example: FDP has no BT members for now, but they were in the BT for decades and were part of several federal and many state government coalitions. They "provided" two presidents: Theodor Heuss, Walter Scheel.

Example: CSU has controlled Bavaria's government for decades, often as a single-party rule. The CSU has provided two chancellor candidates (a completely informal, yet notable role), which are notable (unlike others from minor parties) because they ran for both CDU and CSU.

Example: The Greens are/were part of several governments on federal (incl. vice-chancellor) and state level (incl. minister-president).

Example: The Left is and was part of several governments on state level, even with a minister-president. Renaming and heritage (SED-PDS-Linke.PDS) and merger with WASG should be mentioned here.

Examples: Pirates, NPD, Republicans and AfD entered several state parliaments. Statt Partei in Hamburg found itself in government.

Example: Free Voters have notable influence below state level, so results from Kommunalwahlen may be useful.

Notable Parties
Defunct or merged parties that were notable are still notable. So, yes, I am saying that even minor parties from the 19th century onwards should be checked on notability. But we need criteria to not get swamped, and natural ones would be: parliament representation (maybe except for a single deserting MP), government participation or their role in crucial votes/movements/decisions/scandals/incidents, reflected by sustained media coverage.

Newly founded/running parties would, in my opinion, best be placed in the election article, only to be mentioned here if they gain notable publicity (e.g. by running for decades). On the other hand, even minuscule first-timers get articles of their own, so why not list them here? But if, then this inclusion extends to earlier times. Removing entries because they are outdated will not fit the purpose of this list.

I do not intend or propose to fill this list with loads of details, only with most important facts (in as few words as possible) that give hints to readers who are not familiar with German politics or history. --92.211.192.188 (talk) 18:34, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

 * Wikipedia has criteria already, we can't decide ourselves what the criteria should be. See Notability (organizations and companies). "An organization is generally considered notable if it has been the subject of significant coverage in reliable, independent secondary sources. Trivial or incidental coverage of a subject by secondary sources is not sufficient to establish notability. All content must be verifiable. If no independent, third-party, reliable sources can be found on a topic, then Wikipedia should not have an article on it. Read the whole page for details, also WP:GNG. Doug Weller  talk 18:48, 3 September 2017 (UTC)

Party Leaders
This page lists Andra as leader of the SDP, but the Wikepedia page for Andrea Nahles states she was in the position until June 2019. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 97.115.245.133 (talk) 05:21, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

 * Thank you for bringing this up. It has now been updated. Helper201 (talk) 06:00, 26 August 2019 (UTC)

Logo Klimaliste
The logo for Klimaliste ist outdated, the logo in the Klimaliste article is the correct one, I tried to change it, but didn't manage :-/ 185.104.137.32 (talk) 08:50, 31 August 2023 (UTC)

 * Done. Helper201 (talk) 17:58, 1 September 2023 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Talk:List of political parties in Abkhazia which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 16:21, 29 March 2024 (UTC)


text: Talk:Gymnadenia conopsea

title: Talk:Gymnadenia conopsea


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/519 (bus)

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review).  No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was just properly closing ancient discussion. Renata 09:27, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

519 (bus)
I can take the B-roads, hamlets and nowheresville schools, and I can ignore the fancruft and Z-list celebs, but bus routes? This appears to be a particularly non-notable one at that. Joe D (t) 23:53, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. So far as I can tell, even Wikitravel wouldn't want it.  --Korath会話 00:29, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Completely nn. --LeeHunter 01:42, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Travelcruft (Buscruft? Routecruft?) - delete. =P ("Cruft" is such an entertaining suffix.) [[User:Premeditated Chaos| P M  C ]] 01:43, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Indeed it is. I kinda like "buscruft."  Sounds like a pancake mix.  Pass the syrup and delete.  This is just too much. - Lucky 6.9 01:53, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Alphax (talk) 03:49, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete with extreme prejudice. I'm ROFL at "buscruft." "Cruft" is fast becoming my favorite suffix. We here at VfD can have a lot of fun with it: "schoolcruft," "Poke-cruft," "bandcruft," etc. Perhaps we can transwiki this to WikiEnglishBusSchedules or something. --Szyslak 08:18, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I think my favorite so far is "gruntcruft" for Meh and Bah. [[User:Premeditated Chaos| P M  C ]] 21:50, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * ROFLMAO, that's a good one. --Szyslak 23:59, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. It's a fuzzy line sometimes that determines (or trie to determine) what level of detail is appropriate, but I have no doubt that this is too obscure. Andrewa 14:30, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, I got a great idea I could add all the bussroutes in the Stockholm region. Wouldn't people want to read that? Jeltz talk  16:44, 2004 Dec 22 (UTC)
 * delete - too obscure. --Whosyourjudas\talk]] 21:56, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: beyond obscure. Wile E. Heresiarch 22:06, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete this buscruft. Wyss 22:40, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep or merge into a list of bus routes run by that company. Sometimes there is a lot of history to bus routes, especially if they were once streetcar lines. --SPUI 23:19, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * In this case the company is one of the big transport groups which have bought up all the historical companies. I suggest a page on Bus transport in Shropshire, using the county rather than the company, would be more approriate.  Joe D (t) 23:56, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * SPUI, I like your proposal, but it would have to be restricted to the most historically significant cases, like, say, San Francisco bus routes that used to be cable car routes. Plus we'd have to come up with much more specific routes (I meant "names") than "519 (bus)." Perhaps something like North Fresno Transit Authority Route 115b Sunday-Holiday Schedule, Effective June 28, 2004. (By the way, my vote's still delete with extreme prejudice.) --Szyslak 23:59, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * You're assuming that we include schedules; that would be useless. An external link will provide that information, where it will be updated to the current schedule. But the actual places a bus route serves are relatvely static, as is the approximate frequency of a bus, and a change in either is news and encyclopedic. I do think they should be in one article on that group of buses (since it's numbered, that numbering system would let us choose which others to group it with). I'm not familiar with how bus transport in the UK works, so I'd prefer that someone else works on this. --SPUI 00:10, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * That was a joke. Of course a buscruft article wouldn't include schedules. --Szyslak 01:03, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Redirect to Arriva; I've added the information there. If that's not the best place for it, someone should move it elsewhere. --SPUI 00:34, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I really don't think this should be merged with the Arriva article, Arriva run thousands of bus and train routes in multiple countries, which may include many with the same number (the numbers are by region, not company). If this route were in London, not a rural county, for example, the reason for doing things by region rather than company would be even more obvious: London buses all look the same in their characteristic red paint, and already have their own wikipedia article IIRC, but the routes are contracted out to Arriva, First Group, Stagecoach, National Express and probably other companies as well, with not pattern whatsoever as to which company was awarded the contract for which route.  Splitting a list of London bus routes by company wouldn't make any sense, and I think the same applies here. Joe D (t) 03:20, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * You know more about UK public transport than me, so please move that section of the Arriva article to where it should be. Thanks. --SPUI 04:12, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Also there are quite many 519s around the globe. Jeltz talk  19:38, 2004 Dec 23 (UTC)
 * Delete! - I agree with Wile E. Heresiarch - it's beyond obscure. --Fibonacci 09:58, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


text:
Zebra Records

Zebra Records is an American independent jazz/fusion record label originally based on Encino, Los Angeles. In 1985, it reached a distribution agreement with Enja Records to distribute their music in the United States, including the music of David Grisman.

title: Zebra Records


text:
Talk:Grilled cheese sandwich

picture
The picture in the article is pretty bad. I'm not sure that it is any better than no picture at all. ike9898 15:34, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree.

 * I've uploaded a new picture which you may prefer. It can be found here.Also, please let me know if I've done anything wrong in the process of uploading the image, and editing this page. --DonES 19:50, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

 * You licensed the image which is the big omission that a lot of folks make. Other than that, not much can go wrong!

 * The one thing you might want to do differently in the future is upload it to the "commons" rather than the English-only Wiki. Done in that way, every language Wikipedia can then use your grilled-cheese sandwich. I think the English-specific Wiki will remind you of this when you do the upload. At the moment, you do need to create a separate login on Commons, though.

 * Atlant 20:09, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Cheese Sandwich Blog
Who coined the term "cheese sandwich blog"? It refers to a blog posting that is utterly trivial and includes an amount of detail no one could possibly be interested in. Spblat 01:30, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Apple Sauce
I've never heard of dipping into apple sauce, is this an almost exclusively Canadian practice? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.117.216.83 (talk • contribs).
 * I'm Canadian and I have never heard of anyone ever dipping it into apple sauce. Sometimes ketchup, but not apple sauce. Padishar 05:33, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
 * The Apple Sauce thing has also got me wondering. Ketchup, of course, is the only sauce I've ever heard of anyone using with Grilled Cheese.  WilyD 15:34, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Grilled Cheese with Baked Beans-MMMM! Delicious!
Yes, I have. Michael 17:12, 3 December 2005 (UTC) here. I prefer, however, My grilled cheese sandwiches with Heinz Ketchup(cold and sweaty plastic squeeze bottle decanter, of course) in abundant abandon! Cheers! Michael 17:12, 3 December 2005 (UTC)

Is the cheese grated?
I'm just asking, because Grated cheese could do with linking to, and expanding.

Grilled cheese sandwiches can be grated, at least here in the southern US, but it is not customary. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.117.216.83 (talk • contribs).

This article has no references!
If I understand WP:V correctly, some need to be added. Salad Days 18:13, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

And I find the idea that one needs a citation stating a specific example of anyone using mayo in grilled cheese completely ridiculous.

I second the above comment. I have talked to a number of people that use mayo instead of butter, and my family uses mayo instead of butter usually....I don't understand why this would need a reference, but using butter doesn't need a reference. |Bampowthoom

 * I agree, it looks very silly. On the other hand, people really put mayo on the outside of the bread? --63.25.98.52 13:58, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Putting various cooking fats (mayo, margarine, butter) on the outside of the bread helps couple heat into the interior of the sandwich when you cook it.

 * Atlant 15:10, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

George Foreman?
These are two lines from the article: ''This can be simulated in a George Foreman grill for the same effect. Brown's recipe for grilled cheese is arguably the tastiest sandwich recipe ever. Couldn't it be done in any'' grill? And the second statement is only an opinion. Padishar 05:54, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Debate
Is there really "some debate" over whether grilled cheese sandwiches should be sliced corner to corner or through the middle? I have not come across this debate. I suspect it of not existing. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.165.166.254 (talk • contribs).

 * You don't have any kids, do you? ;-)

 * Atlant 01:08, 30 November 2006 (UTC)

 * The article states: "Also, there is some debate over what is the correct way to slice this type of sandwich. Some prefer horizontally along the middle, as with traditional sandwiches. Others prefer diagonally, from corner to corner, to make it easier to dip and to eliminate two arguably less desirable breadcrust corners."
 * Aside from this being mildly childish, it is also plainly incorrect.
 * Whether there is actually 'debate' about it is completely conjectural.
 * Neither method of slicing is 'correct' or 'incorrect', it is merely a preference.
 * Many people cut all of their sandwiches diagonally, even their 'traditional' ones, and there is no specific significance to cutting a 'grilled cheese sandwich' diagonally in comparison to any other sandwich.
 * Being both incorrect and overly specific, the entire paragraph should be removed.--Jeffro77 01:26, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Or, equally likely, someone just saw an opportunity to write something in a light-hearted way. But your humor detector seems to need work.

 * Atlant 22:59, 26 December 2006 (UTC)
 * I've done a self-diagnostic, and my humor detector is working fine; thanks for bringing it to my attention though. If people want to write humorous things about grilled cheese sandwiches, they could put it on the talk page, their user page, the Uncyclopedia Wiki, or a completely different site entirely.--Jeffro77 09:05, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

 * Right on, Jeffro77! Rock on.  It's a better article without that (not-especially-humorous) nonsense in there.   --63.25.20.132 (talk) 02:53, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Noteworthy?
There are many aspects in this article that aren't worth mentioning (aside from the entire subject not being particularly noteworthiness, though I concede that 'grilled/toasted cheese sandwiches' are a popular snack). For example, tomato being added as a variant??? There are any number of things that a person may decide to have on a toasted sandwich that include cheese, and none of them are of particular significance. The article should be trimmed significantly.--Jeffro77 15:27, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Why? Do we pay by the byte? Seriously, if someone took the time to expand the article in a cogent way, why not just leave well-enough alone? Just try to think of it as so much "susuration".

 * Atlant 16:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Because it detracting from the uniqueness of the snack, and blurring the distinction between a 'grilled cheese sandwich' and more elaborate meals that happen to contain the ingredients of a grilled cheese.--Jeffro77 01:20, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

 * We could conceivably remove all unsourced statements, which is what Jimbo recommends, and reduce the article to a frail husk. Salad Days 12:52, 25 December 2006 (UTC)

 * Irrelevant. I didn't say anything about statements being unsourced. I suggested that the comments did not fall within the scope of the article.--Jeffro77 09:00, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

Cheese Toastie
I am going to add something to this article if no one minds. It is a difficult thing to source but is relevant and factual if you do some research of your own

Here in Indiana ( specifically NE) this is exclusively known as a cheese toastie.

I do not know where else it is called this but at least mentioning it as another name for it and and having it go to this page.

I will resolve myself to accepting (for wikipedia at least) that most of the world calls it a grilled cheese even though though cheese toastie is more accurate Mrobinson587 03:04, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

I have asked some people from Great Britan what the main thing that they call it indeed a "cheese toasty" and "chese toastie".

Also for the sake of interest I believe that there should be something mentioning North East Indiana calls it a cheese toastie.

Also if you type in cheese toastie, it doesn't even refer to this page. Could somebody refer me to a page on how to do this?

I will give this two weeks for people to respond and counter argue why I shouldn't add the above information. Mrobinson587 17:38, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
 * I have never once heard it called a Cheese Toasty, and I have been around the USA. Corporal Clegg 04:14, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

 * The term "toastie" is mentioned in the toasted sandwich article. Here in the UK, the sandwich described as a "grilled cheese sandwich" would generally be referred to as a cheese toastie or toasted cheese sandwich - it wouldn't be called "grilled" unless it was literally "grilled" (i.e. "broiled" in American English). 217.34.39.123 15:01, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Ideed, in the uk a sandwich with melted cheese would be a cheese toastie, toasted cheese if its open (i.e. only one piece of bread. The thing would never be cooked in a frying pan unless mimiking something seen in america or on american tv. I think grilled cheese/cheese toastie should also be linked here witht eh article expanded to include variants.  --Brideshead 09:23, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Grilled vs Griddle
Just felt like interjecting a thought on the most fantastic food creation after the pickle. Shouldn't this ambrosia of cheese, bread and buttery goodness be called a "griddle" (or 'griddled') cheese sandwich? As they are typically cooked on a griddle (ie a frying pan) I would think that a more appropriate name would be griddle cheese. My guess is that it was called a griddle cheese at first but morphed upon the lazy tounges of the masses and became 'grilled' dropping the "d" sound in the middle of the word.

Any thoughts on this?

151.191.175.196 14:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC)Pickle Man151.191.175.196 14:11, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

 * See my comments a while back at Talk:George Foreman Grill/Archives/2014.

 * Atlant 14:21, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

What the hell is a griddle??

Merger
While i think that this article is a usefully section, I don't feel it noteworthy enough for it's own article. The Toasted sandwich article would benefit from a this article merged as a section of, arguably, the most common of toasted sandwich. --Brideshead 09:50, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

 * Oppose. We have articles about every manga character in the world; we can afford a separate article about the grilled cheese sandwich. -- Atlant 14:09, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Got here by clinking "Random article." These articles are appropriately separated; I see your point but grilled cheese sandwiches are noteworthy enough (and yummy) to have their own article. :) --Midnightdreary 03:50, 6 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I somewhat agree. The article isnt neccessarly long enough to stand alone as all of the useful information is in the introduction. However, its a bit long to be added as a section in a different article as well. If its going to be merged, it probably needs to be trimmed down, if not, it probably needs to be expanded on, if possible. Glassbreaker5791 17:47, 29 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I agree. This article doesn't add anything significant to the concept of a toasted sandwich. Colonel Warden 19:55, 25 August 2007 (UTC)

Velveeta
Added a link to Velveeta. 67.191.87.181 15:15, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

If you move grilled cheese it should be moved to deli sandwich. I personally think that grilled cheese should stay as a page but what can you do.

Bread list?
Is the list of breads commonly used really neccessary? that can easily be integrated into the top of the article and does not need its very own section. Glassbreaker5791 17:41, 29 July 2007 (UTC)

"Toasties" vs. "Grilled Cheese"
This may be rated as a "low-importance" article but it's definitely a fun one. I did some general cleanup of the article to give it some sections and a true introduction. There were also a lot of neutrality issues, such as assumptions about what the common methods of preparation are, common cheese, "traditional" methods, etc. In addition, a single source provides the majority of references. It needs internal citations to meek Wikipedia's quality standards.

I digress, Yet another issue is the "toastie" vs. "grilled cheese" thing. Here in the states, if I asked for a "grilled cheese sandwich," and someone brought me one of those toasted things, I'd be very confused. Although the ingredients and methods are similar, they are not the same sandwich... in my opinion. When I think "grilled cheese," a very specific picture comes to mind (like the one on the page!). Indeed, the Sandwich toaster article has it's own section for "toasties," and it clearly differentiates between the two: "Sandwich toasters are less common in the United States where grilled cheese sandwiches are more popular." So, there are tow ways to tackle this. Merge the two, and open the article with "A grilled cheese sandwitch, or toastie..." and then discuss regional differences...OR...we could split the two, and define "grilled cheese" as a sandwich made the US way (buttered and pan fried), and a Toastie as the UK way (toasted in a toaster or "grill"). Either way, we need to change the conflict between the two articles as they now are. Ideas? Johnny California 09:10, 28 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I think these are fundamentally different sandwiches and that this article should focus on the "grilled cheese" sandwich, which is buttered and then cooked in a pan like a Reuben. --Jcbutler (talk) 21:35, 24 November 2008 (UTC)

Origin in infobox
I removed the unsourced assertions as to the origin of the dish from the infobox, which has featured "Ontario, Canada" and "Brussels, Belgium". As the actual reference listed in the article says, "Food historians generally agree that cooked bread and cheese combinations [in many different forms, textures and tastes] were ancient foods known across most continents and cultures." --MCB (talk) 18:37, 19 October 2008 (UTC)

title: Talk:Grilled cheese sandwich


text:
Talk:BMC ADO16

Just a note: I had the other ADO16 pages redirect here as the Morris 1100 was the first on the market; I employed the same for the Austin 1800. Stombs 23:54, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)

There was also a GT model. The Gt Model had a problem with the clutch, but it was good ride and quite versatile.

Successors?
I Query the Successors chosen - the Morris Marina may have been the Morris produced after the ADO16, but it wasn't to the best if my knowledge a direct successor mechanically, aesthetically, or in market sector - surely the Allegro "replaced" the entire ADO16 line, and was in turn replaced by the maestro. Of course the issue is muddied by the rationalisation reorganization which took place between models, resulting in the models being arranged by bodyshell rather than by engine size, as the Allegro, Marina, Maxi etc, were available with engine options (as opposed to the previous policy of having a different bodyshell for nearly every variant of the A B and C engines.--D.C.Rigate 21:50, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

The whole thing is further complicated by the frankly ridiculous BL franchise system. The Morris franchise garages would have stopped selling the 1100/1300 when it stopped being made as a Morris, but while it was still available in Austin showrooms. So Morris franchise garages' range in the early 70s would have gone from Mini to Marina with nothing in between, so in a sense the Marina was the successor to the Morris 1100/1300 (as well as the Minor and the Oxford). Eventually, the franchises were unified.

Technical Data
In the tempòate on the right, should to be added various data. FF layout for example. (sorry for my english) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.13.142.70 (talk) 10:16, 13 March 2010 (UTC)

Possible splits or alternative fixes
My first reaction on having Morris 1100 redirect here was "This can't be right, no way is BMC ADO16 compatible with the naming conventions".

But the topic of this page is sufficiently wide that a case can be made for the name IMO.

A few things need looking at...

There are an enormous number of redirects, from almost all the names the car went by. Many of these should probably redirect to sections of the article rather than to the lead. I've put a model list into the lead to satisfy the principle of least astonishment for now.

The status of the Austin Victoria is a question mark for me as I write... it's covered by the article, but the Austin Apache to which it currently redirects isn't.

And this brings up the main question... this article is a bit long. It's probably best to split out some articles on various models or model groups. But it's not obvious what the scopes of these more detailed articles should be.

Lots to do... Andrewa (talk) 03:21, 21 December 2011 (UTC)

Amalgamated not Austin Drawing Office
I think that this is reliable and so I have changed the explanation in this article. This is my source: Model ADO codes. Eddaido (talk) 12:22, 4 June 2012 (UTC)

Number produced
Was the number of the Riley variant produced, really precisely identical to the number of the MG variant ? And really 7 times as many as the Wolseley ?Eregli bob (talk) 09:48, 27 May 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:BMC ADO16


text:
Talk:Igigi

Untitled
If it is said that he cames after Shar-kali-sharri, who was king around 2100 BCE, how can he have been king around 2257 BCE? MM (talk) 19:44, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Wrong, this whole page is inaccurate. There are ancient Sumerian tablets: The Seven Tablets of Creation also called the Enuma Elih shocking the world that there is another story of the creation of the world and other life forms, and the Book of Enoch; discussing an early Hebrew patriarch being taken up "And Enoch walked with God: and he was not; for God took him" (Gen 5:24) but Enoch being taken up in their space ship crosses the earth as well as the solar system. Enoch accounts specific details telling the whole story with astronomical information on how the earth was set up as well as the life forms that took him. The Catholic Church/Establishment has known about these texts and the "Igigi"; who are "Those who See" as well as scientific information about the solar system and planet. The Lost Book of Enki has an introduction by Sitchens of what put him in the position to work to translate 14 Fourteen tablets and write his books which are translations of the 14 Fourteen Sumerian Clay Tablets and they discuss the "IgIgI" who also maintain a base on Mars and here on Earth (Tiamat) we have a long history of cave paintings, thousands of testimonies, and ancient writings about what we now know as “The Watchers” aka “The Greys”, notorious for their large eyes appropriately named:"Those Who See". The Watchers are the IgIgI. There are many additional texts that discuss them but I would recommend starting with what you know probably the Bible then become familiar with and read the works of Mauro Biglino's Exact Translations of the words of the Hebrew text.

You find all of these sources on the internet and at the Library of Congress. Myth is just a terrible word for the ignorant I recommend removing it from all of Wikipedia and your vocabulary. Read the text then update the page. I am available for discussion or help you can email me at Attackgirl@AOL.com using an attention getter in the Subject line. Margaret P. Clarke, M.B.A. 17:18, 4 July 2019 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Attackgirl (talk • contribs)

Historical ORDER: Lost Book of Enki https://ia800900.us.archive.org/31/items/TheLostBookOfEnkiDaArchiveOrg/the%20lost%20book%20of%20enki.pdf Seven Tablets of Creation Enuma Elish https://www.vanderbilt.edu/AnS/physics/astrocourses/ast203/enuma_elish.html Book of Enoch https://archive.org/details/bookofenoch00scho Epic of Gilgamesh https://archive.org/stream/TheEpicofGilgamesh_201606/eog_djvu.txt Genesis 5:24 KJV https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%205:24&version=KJV The Book that will forever change our ideas about the Bible (Mauro Biglino) https://maurobiglino.com/libri/the-book-that-will-forever-change-our-ideas-about-the-bible/

Etymology
A previous IP editor blanked the entire etymology section with a rather grumpy statement that it was nonsense written by amateurs. I wasn't sure whether this was just one expert being grumpy about another expert with whom they disagreed, or a genuine reflection on the text. I checked the references. The John Heise reference doesn't look great, but it looks like he might know what he's talking about. The rest looked like a bunch of fringe mystic stuff and my feeling was the IP editor might be right. I've therefore very, very tentatively put the Heise bit back in, but I am not a Sumerian/Akkadian person. This desperately needs a second opinion from someone who knows what they're talking about. IP editor, if you come back here, I'd really welcome your opinion! Elemimele (talk) 20:46, 25 October 2021 (UTC)

Someone's musings.
Someone wrote the following in the introduction:

Enoch wrote a book about the watchers. I noted,True the reading of his book,that at least three different names are used to qualified the watcher's. The first one that I founded was "Falling angels" & it is abundantly use to qualified them. I also founded the name Igigis. Enoch mention that 200 of them came down on earth to choose woman's. Defying Annunaki's rules, by getting offsprings with humans women's. Giving birth to giants & Titans, multiplying on the surface of the earth, causing humans to slave, working their entire days,to feed them.

(I moved it here - didn't author it. J.Stornoway (talk) 04:33, 6 June 2022 (UTC))

title: Talk:Igigi


text:
Talk:Nanum of Akkad

Stub?
I added a decent amount of information to this article but it is still very small. However, I'm not sure whether or not it is still a stub. How much can you say about a guy who was an insignificant tetrad for only three years?

Please cite the 'tetrad' stuff. The king list says these four kings ruled for three years, not that they ruled TOGETHER. It's in the style of the king list to add, at the end of a list of kings, 'X kings ruled for Y years'. This does NOT mean they ruled concurrently! It sounds like very bad original research.65.60.224.163 (talk) 00:57, 4 August 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Nanum of Akkad


text:
Talk:Imi

Untitled
The word imi means 'meaning' in Japanese, as in 'what does that mean?'mcdogm--64.12.116.68 12:09, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

title: Talk:Imi


text: Talk:Elulu

title: Talk:Elulu


text: Talk:Shu-turul

title: Talk:Shu-turul


text:
Talk:Clobetasol propionate

INN
In accordance with WikiProject_Drugs naming policy, I propose we move this page to the INN clobetasol. If you have any concern with this proposal, please discuss it on this page. Matt 23:56, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I have no problem with the move.--AAAAA 01:11, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It can be included that in Brazil, this drug is sold under the name Therapsor. --Diogo (talk) 03:00, 16 August 2010 (UTC)

Copyright problem removed
Prior content in this article duplicated one or more previously published sources. The material was copied from: Physicians Desk Reference 2006. Infringing material has been rewritten or removed and must not be restored, unless it is duly released under a compatible license. (For more information, please see "using copyrighted works from others" if you are not the copyright holder of this material, or "donating copyrighted materials" if you are.) For legal reasons, we cannot accept copyrighted text or images borrowed from other web sites or published material; such additions will be deleted. Contributors may use copyrighted publications as a source of information, but not as a source of sentences or phrases. Accordingly, the material may be rewritten, but only if it does not infringe on the copyright of the original or plagiarize from that source. Please see our guideline on non-free text for how to properly implement limited quotations of copyrighted text. Wikipedia takes copyright violations very seriously, and persistent violators will be blocked from editing. While we appreciate contributions, we must require all contributors to understand and comply with these policies. Thank you. Moonriddengirl (talk) 14:16, 24 March 2012 (UTC)

Cushing's Syndrome? Really?
Is C.S. really a likely side-effect from topical use of a steroidal ointment? DavidFarmbrough (talk) 05:08, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

You know the way such lists are generated. The manufacturer has to list any adverse reactions or complications that the FDA study group(s) indicated might have been connected to use of the drug. If a single person was diagnosed with CS in such a study, it's possible that the incident will make its way on to "list of possible side effects," even though the likelihood that the drug had anything to do with it is often negligible. While ostensibly used to monitor safety and provide information to physicians and patients, it also provides legal cover for the manufacturer. Redness, itching, hair loss; sure, makes sense. Neurological disorders? Probably not. But that's the way the system has evolved. 124.33.208.179 (talk) 03:01, 3 November 2013 (UTC)

Moved from article
I have moved the following content here because it lacks context/explanation. If anyone wants to use it to improve the article, here it is. -- Ed (Edgar181) 14:19, 6 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Clobetasol propionate.svg

title: Talk:Clobetasol propionate


text:
Talk:Cry Freedom

References to use

 * Please add to the list references that can be used for the film article.

Expand this
I'm going to expand this, especially the plot section. When I've done that, I'll add some actor info. --Qu e ntin Smith 12:45, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

South Africa and South African should be capitalised, as should Black and White; but not government. Please give full names, i.e. Steve Biko, not just Biko. --Qu e ntin Smith 12:55, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Trivia
I'm removing the bit about Peter Gabriel's song, "Biko." While it's certainly important to the Stephen Biko and Peter Gabriel pages, it has nothing to do with this film. PacificBoy 19:00, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

how much of the film is based on fact? did the book get published? what happened after that? 82.0.24.133 19:55, 11 October 2006 (UTC)

 * donald woods two books were published in england and donald and wendy woods themselves were chief advisors on the film so it is all true fact--Charlieh7337 (talk) 05:43, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

No 'Historical accuracy' section?
Shouldn't there be a section on the movie's historical accuracy? Not because I think it is particularly accurate or inaccurate, but because it seems that the movie is based on a true story, shouldn't there be a section per FILMHIST?--— Mr. Guye (talk) (My aftermath) 15:18, 8 May 2017 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Cry Freedom


text:
Talk:Teton Range

=mis-information=

Untitled
Most of the Teton Range is NOT in GTNP. Only the east slope of the northern part. Much of it is in the Targhee National Forest.

Most of the Teton Range is NOT made up of granite. Most of the supposed "granite" is really metamorphic rock. The west slope and much of the northern part are made up of sedimentary rocks. Much of this is carbonate rock, either limestone or dolomite. Taking the range as a whole, including the west slope, it is likely that more of the exposed rock is limestone than anything else. Senor Cuete (talk) 22:12, 12 May 2009 (UTC)Senor Cuete

 * Nobody argued with this for three years so I edited the article. Senor Cuete (talk) 16:28, 8 October 2012 (UTC)Senor Cuete

title: Talk:Teton Range


text:
Talk:Survival (Bob Marley and the Wailers album)

Not on Tuff Gong
Can someone supply some proof that this was not released on Tuff Gong label? It seems like it was http://www.discogs.com/viewimages?release=1290640

 * It was released on Tuff Gong in at least three different versions (and Jamaica being Jamaica, probably several others). It's worth noting that Blackwell changed the song sequence when he released the album on Island in 1979. It wasn't until the Barry Diament remaster in 1990 that the original track sequence was restored. That original sequence is what's used everywhere now -- except on the early Tuff Gong cassettes, which were inexplicably re-sequenced in a completely different way than either the Tuff Gong or Island releases. This was the only Island-era album to have multiple versions with different sequencing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2602:30A:2E44:E010:F9FF:21F8:D708:4120 (talk) 09:09, 22 March 2015 (UTC)

Untitled

 * "In Africa the album has been partly censured (scratched with measurers on arrangement of the local governments). The colonial powers like UK and France wanted to prevent tempting of the black native population to revolts and rebellions because of the partly martial lyrics."

Could someone, perhaps whoever originally added this, make it a bit clearer? At the time of the release of this album neither Britain nor France held any colonies in Africa, so I don't really follow, unless I have mistunderstood the meaning of the passage. Cheers, --Loopy e 22:56, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

 * I heard it was done in South Africa, but I don't think it was a British colony by that time... 惑乱 分からん 00:48, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

 * It was done in South Africa by the Apartheid Government, and maybe in Rhodesia, if they had the chance of doing that before the majority rule in 1980. So I propouse it would be chanced to the following: In South Africa the album was partly cencured (scratched with measurers on arrangement of the local governments) by the then Apartheid Government. I have just seen a BBC documentary about Bob Marley and they just said that it was done in South Africa to prevent black people from hearing these tracks that where seen as revolutionary. Dr.Poison 10:07, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Yeah, allegedly they just erased the complete lyrics on back with a black marker, and scratched all imported LPs they could find in order to make them unplayable. Strikes me as a very primitive method... =S 惑乱 分からん 11:36, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

The article refers to "Tribute to Bob Marley. The Daily Star." apropos the censure of the album in South Africa, but this article does not contain anything about this subject, although it contains other valuable material. So, I change the place of this reference. Mvewiki (talk) 20:12, 31 October 2015 (UTC)

???
Why is the flag of Papua New Guinea on the album, thats not Africa Rmpfu89 00:06, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Possibly because Bob Marley wanted to celebrate and honour their recently gained (1974) independence from Australia (???) 惑乱 分からん 00:47, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

 * No where is it said that all the flags are African countries... i think the fact that Papua New Guinea's flag is on the cover of an album named survival explains everything.... no mention of this should be made. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 137.146.156.203 (talk • contribs) 15:45, 14 May 2008

There Is no album art. Why? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.112.245.249 (talk) 04:27, 16 March 2011 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Pseudomorph

Is the "Substitution pseudomorph" phenomenon anything like [becoming] "petrified"?
Is the phenomenon described in the "Substitution pseudomorph" section the same as (or, similar to) the phenomenon that is responsible for creating "petrified" evidence, of certain erstwhile forms? (such as, a petrified clam?)

(I have a petrified clam in my house. It is a rock, but its shape is the shape of a clam.)

Just curious!

PS: If the answer is yes, then would this be a good candidate for being mentioned in that section of the article? Thanks, --Mike Schwartz (talk) 20:13, 23 October 2014 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pseudomorph


text:
Three-wheeler

A three-wheeler is a vehicle with three wheels. Some are motorized tricycles, which may be legally classed as motorcycles, while others are tricycles without a motor, some of which are human-powered vehicles and animal-powered vehicles.

Overview
Many three-wheelers which exist in the form of motorcycle-based machines are often called trikes and often have the front single wheel and mechanics similar to that of a motorcycle and the rear axle similar to that of a car. Often such vehicles are owner-constructed using a portion of a rear-engine, rear-drive Volkswagen Beetle in combination with a motorcycle front end. Other trikes include that are specially constructed for off-road use.

Three-wheelers can have either one wheel at the back and two at the front (2F1R), (for example: Morgan Motor Company) or one wheel at the front and two at the back (1F2R) (such as the Reliant Robin). Due to better safety when braking, an increasingly popular form is the front-steering "tadpole" or "reverse trike" sometimes with front drive but usually with rear drive. A variant on the 'one at the front' layout was the Scott Sociable, which resembled a four-wheeler with a front wheel missing.

Three-wheelers, including some cyclecars, bubble cars and microcars, are built for economic and legal reasons: in the UK for tax advantages, or in the US to take advantage of lower safety regulations, being classed as motorcycles. As a result of their light construction and potential better streamlining, three-wheeled cars are usually less expensive to operate.

Some inexpensive three-wheelers have been designed specifically to improve mobility for disabled people.

Three-wheeler transport vehicles known as auto rickshaws are a common means of public transportation in many countries in the world, and are an essential form of urban transport in many developing countries such as India and the Philippines.

History
Early automotive pioneer Karl Benz developed a number of three-wheeled models. One of these, the Benz Patent Motorwagen, is regarded as the first purpose-built automobile. It was made in 1885.

In 1896, John Henry Knight showed a tri-car at The Great Exhibition.

In 1897, Edward Butler made the Butler Petrol Cycle, another three-wheeled car.

A Conti 6 hp Tri-car competed in (but did not complete) a 1907 Peking to Paris race sponsored by a French newspaper, Le Matin.

Two front
A configuration of two wheels in the front and one wheel at the back presents two advantages: it has improved aerodynamics, and that it readily enables the use of a small lightweight motorcycle powerplant and rear wheel. This approach was used by the Messerschmitt KR200 and BMW Isetta. Alternatively, a more conventional front-engine, front wheel drive layout as is common in four-wheeled cars can be used, with subsequent advantages for transversal stability (the center of mass is further to the front) and traction (two driven wheels instead of one). Some vehicles have a front engine driving the single rear wheel, similar to the rear engine driving the rear wheel. The wheel must support acceleration loads as well as lateral forces when in a turn, and loss of traction can be a challenge.

A new tadpole configuration has been proposed with a rear engine driving the front wheels. This concept (Dragonfly Three Wheeler ) claims both stability and traction (two driven wheels), as well as a unique driving experience.

With two wheels in the front (the "tadpole" form or "reverse trike") the vehicle is far more stable in braking turns, but remains more prone to overturning in normal turns compared to an equivalent four-wheeled vehicle, unless the center of mass is lower and/or further forward. Motorcycle-derived designs suffer from most of the weight being toward the rear of the vehicle.

For lower wind resistance (which increases fuel efficiency), a teardrop shape is often used. A teardrop is wide and round at the front, tapering at the back. The three-wheel configuration allows the two front wheels to create the wide round surface of the vehicle. The single rear wheel allows the vehicle to taper at the back. Examples include the Aptera (solar electric vehicle) and Myers Motors NmG.

Two rear
Having one wheel in front and two in the rear for power reduces the cost of the steering mechanism but greatly decreases lateral stability when cornering while braking.

When the single wheel is in the front (the "delta" form, as in a child's pedal tricycle), the vehicle is inherently unstable in a braking turn, as the combined tipping forces at the center of mass from turning and braking can rapidly extend beyond the triangle formed by the contact patches of the wheels. This type, if not tipped, also has a greater tendency to spin out ("swap ends") when handled roughly.

=== Lateral stability === The disadvantage of a three-wheel configuration is that lateral stability is lower than with a four-wheeled vehicle.

With any vehicle, an imaginary line can be projected from the vehicles centre of mass to the ground, representing the force exerted on the vehicle by its mass. With the vehicle stationary, the line will be vertical. As the vehicle accelerates, that imaginary line tilts backward, remaining anchored to the centre of mass the point at which the line intersects the ground moves backward. As you brake it moves forward, with cornering it moves sideward. Should the point at which this line intersects the ground move outside of the boundary formed by connecting the tyre contact patches together (a rectangle for a four-wheeled car, or a triangle for a trike) then the vehicle will tip and eventually fall over. This is true for any vehicle.

With all vehicles it is critical that the vehicle should be engineered to slide before this point of instability is reached.

This can be achieved in several ways:
 * by placing the center of mass closer to the ground
 * by placing the center of mass closer to the axle with two wheels (for three wheelers)
 * by increasing the track width
 * by limiting the grip provided by the tyres, such that the vehicle loses adhesion before it starts to tip.
 * By tilting some or all of the vehicle as it corners.

In the case of a three-wheeled ATV, tipping may be avoided by the rider leaning into turns.

Tilting option
To improve stability some three-wheelers are designed to tilt while cornering like a motorcyclist would do. The tilt may be controlled manually, mechanically or by computer.

A tilting three-wheeler's body or wheels, or both, tilt in the direction of the turn. Such vehicles can corner safely even with a narrow track.

Some tilting three-wheelers could be considered to be forms of feet forward motorcycles or cabin motorcycles or both.

Battery-powered three wheelers

Three-wheeled battery powered designs include:
 * Aptera (solar electric vehicle)
 * Arcimoto
 * CityEl
 * Commuter Cars Tango
 * Cree SAM
 * ElectraMeccanica SOLO
 * Myers Motors NmG (formerly Corbin Sparrow)
 * Nobe GT100
 * Toyota i-Road
 * Triac
 * Vanderhall Edison 2
 * ZAP Xebra
 * EWheels EW 36(mobility scooter)

Solar-powered three wheelers
Here are three notable examples of solar-powered three wheelers; two race cars, the Infinium and the Sky Ace TIGA, and a vehicle planned for production, the Aptera.

The Infinium, built by the University of Michigan Solar Car Team, came in 3rd place in the 2009 World Solar Challenge held in Australia, and won the 2010 American Solar Challenge.

Ashiya University's Sky Ace TIGA achieved 91.332 km/h at Shimojishima Airport, in Miyakojima, Okinawa, Japan, to win the Guinness World Record, on 20 August 2014. It took the record from another three-wheeler, Sunswift IV, designed and built at the University of New South Wales in Australia, by a margin of almost 3 km/h.

The Aptera solar electric vehicle uses a tadpole layout and is being designed to have a top speed of over 100 mph. The Aptera uses 42 KW in-wheel electric motors and can be ordered with two (front-wheel drive) or three (all-wheel drive) motors. The Aptera's roof and dashboard, and optionally its hood and hatch, are fitted with solar panels, with the full compliment being designed to add a range of up to 40 miles per day and 11,000 miles per year in the sunniest climates. First customer availability is planned for before the end of 2024.

Steam-powered three wheelers

The world's first full-size self-propelled land vehicle was a three-wheeler. French Army Captain Nicolas-Joseph Cugnot's 1770 fardier à vapeur (steam dray), a steam tricycle with a top speed of around 3 km/h (2 mph), was intended for hauling artillery.

Another of the earliest preserved examples is the Long steam tricycle, built by George A. Long around 1880 and patented in 1883, now on display at the Smithsonian Institution.

Wind-powered three wheelers
The Whike is a recumbent tricycle with a sail, made in the Netherlands.

All-terrain vehicles

Due to the incidence of injuries and deaths related to their use, a 10-year ban, entirely voluntary for manufacturers, was placed on the sale of new three-wheeled all-terrain vehicles in the United States in January 1988. More injuries were sustained by riders by not applying a proper riding technique, and lack of wearing proper safety gear such as helmets and riding boots. In a search conducted by the Consumer Product Safety Commission, it was determined that "no inherent flaw was found in the three wheel design".

Registration

In the U.S, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration defines and regulates three-wheeled vehicles as motorcycles. However, in 2015 a bill was introduced in Congress that would prevent some three wheeled vehicles from being classified as motorcycles in the United States, instead creating a new classification for "autocycles".

Driver's license and registration requirements vary on a state-by-state basis. Some states require drivers of three wheeled vehicles to have a motorcycle license and register the vehicle as a motorcycle. Some states, including Virginia, Kansas, and Indiana, classify some three wheeled vehicles as autocycles. Virginia defines an autocycle as "a three-wheeled motor vehicle that has a steering wheel and seating that does not require the operator to straddle or sit astride and is manufactured to comply with federal safety requirements for motorcycles." Indiana defines it as "a three (3) wheeled motor vehicle in which the operator and passenger ride in a completely or partially enclosed seating area that is equipped with:(1) a rollcage or roll hoops; (2) safety belts for each occupant; and (3) antilock brakes;and is designed to be controlled with a steering wheel and pedals." In other jurisdictions, such as British Columbia, Canada, and Connecticut, a three-wheeled vehicle with an enclosed passenger compartment or partially enclosed seat is considered an automobile.

title: Three-wheeler