text:
Talk:Fred Gallagher (cartoonist)

Untitled
Is "Carlson" a typo which should be "Caston"? --Salagadoola 00:30, 20 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Where you find that? --Kiba 00:56, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

Would it perhaps be more useful to merge and redirect this to Megatokyo? It's less useful out of context. -[[User:Aranel|Aranel (" Sarah ")]] 20:48, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

POV concern
i have never read such a negative article on wikipedia before. some one should really rewrite it. bashing the looks of his wife is way too low. /Jonatan
 * This article look too negative. I am not going to get myself into an edit war. I did revert once. In my opinon, this article is POV, and plus it already covered in Megatokyo too. --Kiba 18:48, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
 * This article is rewritten. I'll remove the NPOV template tag. --Kiba 20:25, 18 July 2005 (UTC)

Age
Extract from Megatokyo website:

Thursday - November 7, 2002 [Piro] - 12:50:00

[...] This sorta gives away how old i am (33)[...]

Thus, I hazard a guess that Fred is now 36. I will risk adding "born 1969" to the article.

Warmth - More Recent?
I may be wrong, but I thought that he started developing Warmth before Megatokyo, yet the article refers to it as more recent. (No, I won't be bold.) --TCM (Talk) 04:00, 8 November 2005 (UTC)
 * Allright, I found a quote from one of his rants to support my position.
 * I've been teasing people with another project I started years ago called 'warmth' ever since Megatokyo started. In fact, I never planned to do Megatokyo, it just sorta came in and took over my life before I knew what happened. 'Warmth' was the comic/story/project I was working on at the time. Honestly, I didn't have the drawing skillz at the time to do the project - and that's part of why i decided to do Megatokyo - i needed practice, and Megatokyo was a better medium to practice with.
 * I'll go change it in some way or another. --TCM (Talk) 04:10, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Introduction
I took out the bit about fans calling him a manga-ka and such. A petty disagreement (if that) is not necessary in an introduction. cosmogee

Wife's name
There's some inconsistancy in the spelling of Mr. Gallagher's wife's name. Is it "Sarah" or "Sara?"
 * In this comic's (798's) discussion thread on the megatokyo forums, he spells it Sarah. See here. Tigger89 03:22, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

History
Should the current rumors (I've seen pictures but no actual proof they're Fred's) that he did some Nude Ruri at some point in the past be included? humblefool®Deletion Reform 03:47, 19 February 2006 (UTC) Checking archive.org records of megatokyo.com suggests that nude Ruri was hosted there at one point or another, and a major feature of the site. There was also a 18+ section, blurred.megatokyo.com. However, no pictures exist of this, and there's no conformation that Fred did these because Rodney Caston still owned the domain at this point. All the pictures on 4chan are fake, unless there have been some sudden new ones. It's not hard to compare the fakes to Fred's art style. For now, I wouldn't add anything until concrete proof comes out. --Breathstealer 15:48, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

 * The "Naked Ruri-Ruri" quotes on archive.org are references to a Slashdot style troll inspired by the Natalie Portman naked and petrified thing. And there's no real evidence that Blurred was, as is currently described in the article "lolicon yuri." -- Anonymous

 * While blurred does include a topless picture of "Ruri", it's certainly not 'lolicon yuri doujinshi'. Most of the recent vandalism by 67.173.123.119 is unverifiable and also intentionally aimed at corroborating false statements currently popular on 4chan's /b/ random board. --Cortana 07:12 22 February 2006 (EST)

 * Hay Cort~ While the vandalism is unverifiable, is there any chance at finding out the contents of blurred? --Breathstealer 16:12, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

 * Well, I do have access to the files, but Fred doesn't want them public. The description that I wrote for it is a pretty good abstract of it. Cortana 17:09, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

 * An excellent example of how close friends of a biographical article's subject can "own" the article by writing about things that they claim to know themselves but which has never been published anywhere. Ashibaka tock 22:53, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

 * User 67.173.123.119 here, and I'd like to say that what I peiced togther information I collectedand since offical sources from Megatokyo and Gallagher's staff (Looking at you Cortana) refused to comment on the matter. I can see why you claim it's vanadlism, It seems logical just to just publish them in an edited format and let it rest. Most users on 4chan /b/ have ADD so they'll go back to hating something else soon afterwards so why not just post them? 1:05, 24 February 2006 (CST)

 * I'd like to add, while trying to get to the bottom of this. Arguing about something that cannot be proven is pointless and this is the worst wikipedia article yet because of it. Though, I'd like to point out something, a topless picture of 'Ruri' whoever that is wouldn't qualify as doujinshi and if it a simple topless picture, it could not be yuri either. So as far as I know its most likely just lolicon. So for this user, this is as good as any conformation of past pedophilia!

 * So tell me Ashibaka, what's your source for anything that you've written about Blurred? Since nothing can be verified about Blurred where do you get off writing anything at all?  You have no evidence that it even existSteel Rain 02:14, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Plenty of information can be found by checking the web archive and Google cache for omoikane.net and running it through the Wayback Machine. Two of the offending images can be viewed there.  Thus, confirmation of the existence of Blurred and "slightly salacious" images.  216.203.80.125 21:28, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Ignoring wayward vandals from what you assume to be 4chan, let this speak as the voice of argument and reason for all of the loving folks at /b/ who poured their tired efforts into compiling this - frankly, Cortana's little snippet didn't really tell the tale adequately or.. coherently. Check OUR facts here (http://rapidshare.de/files/19997019/Blurred_Exposed.zip.html) and here (http://fregal10.hollosite.com/) before you write anymore about Blurred. If you think presenting facts and rational argument equals us vandalizing and harassing, you might want to know that not everyone in /b/ is a bloody retard. We just wanted the truth that you wouldn't provide.

 * There no more debate. With June 8 blog (http://www.megatokyo.com/index.php?strip_id=866) and the addition of (http://www.fredart.com/blurred/) I think Blurred's place is now justified as a now 'legitimate' project now that Fred is not denying it anymore. Props to the unforgiving and unforgetting Anonymous though a bit hard handed in getting it out at least its out for everyone to see. I don't think it would have come out without you. I finnaly got to see this Blurred... Really is nothing he should been ashamed of. /me shrugs

On another note. Is that blurred screenshot really neccisary? Now that might be a bit uncalled for Ariolander 07:40, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Well, it's probably among the things which caused him to change his mind about whether to post the images on his website (see "Fred doesn't want them public", above). Ashibaka tock 21:38, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
 * The current one added by CopyandPasta is probably not the one that should be shown, if any, considering the exposed breasts in it. Also, the unsourced and false accusations of legal threats are not acceptable, as far as I see it. I'll try to keep it cleaned up, but CopyAndPasta seems intent on making sure it stays in that form.Cortana 23:20, 10 June 2006 (UTC)

I object to the phrasing "It appears that their calculated attempt to discredit and embarrass Gallagher failed." This was obviously written by someone who supported MT during the conflict and is an opinionated jab at /b/. If anything, /b/ "won" the battle in that they got Fred to admit to Blurred. However, since it is a controversial topic, I suggest that it be changed to something like "In response to harassment from these /b/ users, Fred made the Blurred website public again..." -Anonymous

Protection notice
Because the Blurred section continues to violate WP:LIVING, I am locking down the article for now. This is an article about a living person, so it is unacceptable to make negative statements without proper sourcing. Internet forums do not count as reliable sources. The Blurred Exposed site does not count as a reliable source. We don't do "investigative journalism" or whatever you want to call it. It specifically violates our original research policies. Using charged words like I found in the section also violates WP:NPOV. Please, hammer out your disagreements here, and when you come up with something that's in compliance with our policies, let me know and I will unlock the article. However, if the WP:LIVING violations appear again, I may be forced to block those responsible. I'm sorry to be heavy-handed about this, but this policy is non-negotiable. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 00:06, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * "We" did not do the original research - I certainly wasn't involved. The fact is, however, that the research WAS done, and that it, and/or the reaction to it, led Fred Galalgher to publicly admit that Blurred had once existed and that the contents as the research uncovered were 100% accurate.  In fact, Fred has even put the entire site back online (see http://www.fredart.com/blurred/) with a new introduction.  I don't see a problem with the article as it currently stands.  My last revision has a bit of history behind the actual research, but I didn't post links, so they were killed for unsourced statement (fair enough) and I didn't care enough to go back and repost with sources -  I'd rather work on actual anime articles. Snarfies 13:15, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I have removed some commentary from that section that sounded a bit too much like gloating from the pro-Gallagher side. However, I also had to remove the link to "Blurred: Exposed"; it doesn't meet our standards as a reliable source.  The section still needs sourcing, but then so does the whole article.  However, in terms of content, I tried to move it back toward the neutral point of view.  If this works, I'll unlock it.  –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 17:54, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * True enough, those were my words, and admittedly they were probably a bit biased from my close relationship with the subject of the article and from talking with him. My main point was to get the negative stuff out as well as the 4chan gloating bits and false accusations of legal threats removed. To point, Fred has never denied that blurred existed, and really is quite proud of it as a collection of his early works. He's also never made any legal threats to 4chan or anywhere else about them having the images, this was just conspiracy theorizing by the 4chan /b/ crew because of some coincidences with down time on 4chan and the fast rollover of posts on the /b/ board. Cortana 01:34, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

Im sorry if Im so oblivious. But can you copy/paste some of the edits (copy/paste them here) that you deem controversial (or whatever). -- Psi edit 19:10, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * Basically it accused Gallagher of drawing Lolicon (To 4chan, everything below DD is loli) and had a different, nudity-containing pic. Also some very 4Chan-serving language ("collaberative reasearch project headed by 4chan members" is an oxymoron). Nifboy 19:24, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm afraid copying and pasting it here isn't an option because that too would violate WP:LIVING.  The article's history should give you some clues, though, especially those changes in the "Blurred" section. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 19:57, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

 * I have unprotected the article. We'll see how it goes. –Abe Dashiell (t/c) 12:11, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

IGN interview
Here is an interview he recently did with IGN: http://comics.ign.com/articles/713/713708p1.html

And fully cited:

Fine Red Cat
The reference link for this doesn't work (anymore?). --Masamage 01:47, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

 * It works fine for me. Hargle 00:25, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Oh, there it is. Must've been temporarily down. Thanks~ --Masamage 00:59, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Blurred
I think this section is way too prominent. I haven't explored other 'semi-erotic' articles on Wikipedia, but I'm sort of uncomfortable with the presence of a panty shot in an encyclopedia.

I also think that this one little twiddle he did once should not be the only example present of his art, especially since the only reason he revealed it was that he was bullied. If no one objects, I'd like to remove it and add some art from MT or Fredart instead. --Masamage 01:42, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I wholeheartedly agree, and I'll ask Fred what art he finds most representative, if the consensus agrees. Otherwise, let me know what you find / choose to use, and I'll get permission for wikipedia to display it. Cortana 07:22, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * Oh, hi. ^_^ I don't know if Fred is allowed to contribute to this article, since it's about him; getting his copyright-permission for whatever we pick would be awesome, though! I haven't taken a look yet to see what might go up as representative. Guess I will... Other thoughts are welcome! --Masamage 18:30, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
 * I do agree that potentially objectionable content should be avoided if possible, but remember that Wikipedia is not censored, so don't sweat it if the only image available for illustration of a certain section or article is possibly offensive. Also, I have looked through the rest of the Blurred images, and, in my opinion, the one that is currently being used is easily the least offensive of the lot, so I don't think changing it would do any good. Providing the other sections with images (a lead image of Fred himself? Book covers for The Fine Red Cat and Megatokyo?) would also significantly decrease the prominence of that section, it currently sticks out from the others so much because it is the only one with any kind of illustration, and a fairly large illustration, at that. Hargle 14:36, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Images
Why are there no pictures of Gallagher?

I'm fairly certain there are some pics of him. Let's just put them up, can anyone supply a reason not to? I'm fairly certain there's no reason why a comic artist can't have a photo up but an author can. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dsmccohen (talk • contribs) 09:53, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

Here's one right here: http://www.otakon.com/images/guests/fred_gallagher_promo_sm.jpg How about it wikipedia? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dsmccohen (talk • contribs) 09:56, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 11:38, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

Physical resemblance
«''…Piro, the main character of Megatokyo, whom he has stated is an idealized version of himself when he was in college. He does not physically resemble his comic strip counterpart.''» Uh? Who cares if he resembles the drawing of a semi-autobiographic character? We just said it's an idealized version. And then, in what measure does a stylized (anime-like) drawing resemble a person? Then: «''His wife goes by the name Seraphim, a supporting character in Megatokyo. Her real name is Sarah and she does not physically resemble her comic strip counterpart.''» This is ridiculous, either she's called Sarah or she goes by the name Seraphim. One of the two. And then again the bit about physical resemblance, which sounds even more out-of-place and forced than the other one. Someone is trying (and failing) to prove something, but Wikipedia is the wrong place for that. --Etatoby 23:37, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

True physical resemblances to characters are moot, but her characters name is Seraphim you dolt.--Licourtrix (talk) 05:25, 14 March 2009 (UTC)
 * I wouldn't say their moot at all. If a character is said to be based on a real-life person, then it's definitely worth mentioning if the characters resemble their real-world counterparts, and if not, then why. --TwilightDuality (talk) 20:21, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

XKCD Parody
This comic from xkcd playfully pokes fun at Fred Gallagher; does anyone know what section of the article we could put this under? (or is anyone willing to start a new section?) --Politizer (talk) 02:06, 31 August 2008 (UTC)

Manga artist or not?

 * Here's the opening sentence: "Frederick Gallagher (born November 15, 1968) is an American illustrator and web cartoonist."
 * Here is a sentence later in the article: "He is also credited with being the first American manga artist to be a guest at Anime Expo Tokyo."

KyuuA4 (Talk:キュウ) 23:20, 28 February 2012 (UTC)

 * Those two sentences are not necessarily in conflict. From the POV of any Japanese fan of Megatokyo at AX Tokyo or in any Japanese promotion for AX Tokyo, what Fred creates would be referred to as "manga". Beyond this, in Japan, as in the US, comic illustrators often create artwork that is not specifically "sequential" in nature. Nijyo (talk) 04:21, 31 December 2014 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Fred Gallagher (cartoonist)


text:
Talk:Rodney Caston

Opening line of Article
Opening line of article states Rodney lives in Seattle, WA. Later in the article, it mentions him working for Southern Methodist University and running for political office in the state of Texas. His campaign website also lists an address in Texas. Article does state that the election he participated in was in 2012.

Is it possible to clarify where the subject of the article currently resides?

Stevedroid (talk) 20:44, 30 June 2018 (UTC)

Comments from Rodney Caston

 * info in article validated as correct as of 7/8/2007

Merge to Megatokyo proposal
Would it perhaps be more useful to merge and redirect this to Megatokyo? It's less useful out of context. --Aranel ("Sarah ")]] 20:48, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * No. Rodney Caston's artical would be better seperated. The work Rodney did might clouded and eventually squashed inside a page for MT which would be worse. --ZacBowling 20:21, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

 * No. Megatokyo is quite big enough, and we shouldn't merge logically distinct subjects unless there is a very good reason. Being "less useful" is decidedly not so. --Maru 02:03, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Yes. All notable information contained in the article already is (and, in fact, explained better) on the Megatokyo article. --Nifboy 23:34, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

 * If by 'notable information' you mean a bare summary of facts which amounts to "Rodney Caston was this dude who helped start up Megatokyo; then he left due to artistic differences", then you are absolutely correct, Nifboy. But that omits all details about what else Caston does, his marriage, his kid, the links... Frankly, this looks to me like an attempt to backdoor the VfD decision. --Maru 02:26, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

 * "all details about what else Caston does, his marriage, his kid, the links" don't qualify as "notable information." That's my position. --Nifboy 03:06, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Then you are being dishonest. You are saying that what isn't already in the Megatokyo page isn't notable, and that the page should be wiped, redirecting to Megatokyo. That is a deletion of this article in all but name, since I doubt you will advocate for the "non-notable information" to be added to the Megatokyo article. --Maru 03:10, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Merge/redirecting and outright deletion are entirely different. Deletion also wipes the history and talk pages, which is why it has to go through VfD first (and keep in mind there was only one keep vote on VfD). So I fail to see how I am being dishonest. --Nifboy 03:29, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Which was a full 33% of all votes cast! A plurality! :) But I was using 'delete' in a looser, non-VfD way, to denote removal of information, which as I said previously, you want; and the dishonesty stems from the fact that I think you are hiding this deletion (of information) under the mantle of a merge proposal. --Maru 03:55, 17 August 2005 (UTC)

 * No: Caston is a separate entity from megatokyo. Gallagher, the other author, has his own page. --Dread Lord C y b e r S k u l l ✎☠ 06:36, 2005 August 30 (UTC)

Marriage
The sentence on his marriage is unclear: did he use Slashdot or Megatokyo's webpage to propose? --Maru (talk) Contributions 19:34, 25 October 2005 (UTC)
 * I googled around, and I couldn't find anything resembling a proposal on the Megatokyo.com domain. If he did so, it would probably have been in the Rant space, which is archived with the strips.  So it should still show up on google.  I'm not saying it wasn't on Megatokyo, I'm just saying I couldn't find it. Tigger89 03:58, 12 November 2005 (UTC)

 * So, wouldn't it be better to edit the article instead of saying "...used the main page..." BTW: "Infamously" is meant more ironically here, right? de:äxl

WikiProject class rating
This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 03:56, 28 August 2007 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Megatokyo vol2.jpg
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Image copyright problem with Image:Megatokyo vol1 1st edition.jpg
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Questions with regard to the neutrality of the article
I'm concerned about the likelihood that any edits based on the following will be reverted unless these concerns are first given a fair hearing. To be honest, I'm also concerned that they may be reverted regardless - but AGF is (for very good reason) one of the more important principles of this encyclopedia.

First: I'm honestly not sure, but would I be correct in assuming that BLP applies to any living person discussed in Wikipedia, not simply to the subject of a given page? Some of the assertions made about Fred Gallagher on this page appear to be in a very murky area, and are poorly sourced or contradict the sources given. In particular:
 * "Gallagher was forced to explain the reason for the split... insisting that the breakup was amicable." The wording is less than neutral, and incorrectly asserts that in the source given Gallagher characterized the breakup as "amicable." This is particularly notable given the fact this is being contrasted to both an improperly-sourced accusation of theft and the following sentence.
 * "Caston for his part, had a few years ago issued a statement that Fred made the ultimatum that either Rodney sell the company to him or that it be liquidated on the eve of the publishing of the first book." The assertion that Caston made this statement is unsourced. Oddly, it could easily be reworded and sourced to Gallagher - who makes similar assertions in the source just given without casting clear aspersions, as this sentence does.

Second: Given that Caston is only credited on the first two volumes of MegaTokyo in any fashion, why are volumes 3-6 listed on this page as "Books" of his? Further, why are both the lede and the "Fandom" section worded as "He is a co-creator and the original writer of the popular comic book series Megatokyo") rather than the factually-supportable "He is credited as a co-creator and writer of the first volume of the popular comic book series Megatokyo, and as a co-creator of the second volume"? Finally, unless he is claiming credit for volume 3, why is the following in the article: "Volume 3's highest ranking in bookscan is 3 ending February 20, 2005.[17] This broke all previous records for sales of an American manga up to that time."?

Third: "MegaTokyo was one of the largest and most successful early webcomics to transition from online to print; the success of it and other early properties such as Penny Arcade and PvP went on to influence an entire generation of webcomic creators." badly needs to be removed if it can't be sourced. In the same paragraph, "He is credited for the first two published volumes of Megatokyo." is superfluous if the first sentence is reworded to be more accurate as per the second sentence of the second point.

Fourth: I would like to request that if Caston is editing this article, that he stop doing so AT LEAST until he reads http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Autobiography. It enumerates some very good reasons this is strongly discouraged, and some of these reasons appear to be in evidence.

2001:558:600A:4B:5413:B752:B795:AB77 (talk) 20:08, 15 January 2015 (UTC)

 * If no one responds with concerns, I'll begin editing the problematic areas tomorrow. 73.35.177.173 (talk) 20:33, 18 January 2015 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Rodney Caston


text:
Talk:Civilization IV

More Info???
I would like to see more information on civ 4, like the resources. Not to much for 'wikipedia is not a game guide' to show up, though. Articleer (talk) 01:43, 27 September 2008 (UTC)

 * For more information you might want to visit the Civilization IV Wiki at Wikia. The articles about the resources haven't been created yet, though, but the wiki still has almost 500 articles. —ZeroOne ( talk / @ ) 12:47, 20 January 2009 (UTC)

 * For what it's worth, the Civilization IV Wiki now holds more than 700 articles, including articles about the resources. I think adding a link to the Civ4 wiki should be considered. To the External links section of this article, I mean. —ZeroOne ( talk / @ ) 21:51, 18 May 2009 (UTC)

Pulled the stability problems section
Unreferenced for a few months now. Pulled it out for now. DP 76764 (Talk) 04:03, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Rename/move article
I suggest moving the article to Sid Meier's Civilization IV since that is the game's full title. SharkD (talk) 01:21, 23 January 2009 (UTC)
 * I say leave it as it is, it's far more commonly known as just Civilization IV. Properly a case of WP:NC(CN). QueenCake (talk) 17:58, 26 January 2009 (UTC)
 * More discussion has occured here. SharkD (talk) 01:41, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

Editions Comparison
I had to do some digging but I found what the differences are between the Special, Gold, and Complete editions. Special as someone mentioned includes a faux leather box, soundtrack, Tech Tree poster, and keyboard template. Gold includes the Warlords expansion, a Behind-the-scenes DVD, a Fantasy and aTech Tree poster. Complete includes the two expansions on a single DVD disc. Most information from mobygames.com —Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.195.42.217 (talk) 22:03, 9 March 2009 (UTC)

rhye.civfanatics.net
I recently removed links to this site added by the site-owner

Since this issue spans Wikipedias in multiple languages, there's a discussion underway on Meta-Wiki with the owner of this site at the bottom of this page:
 * meta:User:COIBot/XWiki/rhye.civfanatics.net

Given the history discussed there, neither the site-owner, IPs nor new user accounts should add these links or write about these mods in article space since it's against our Conflict of Interest Guideline). If established editors wish to add neutral material about the owner or his products, that's OK. Any material should cite references that meet the requirements of our No Original Research, Reliable Sources and Verifiability standards.

It's also OK for the owner to discuss suggested changes on article talk pages, as long as he/she isn't just nagging for inclusion (see WP:CANVASS).

If you want to comment on this post, it would probably be best to leave any remarks at the link above, not here, since this discussion spans multiple articles. I think that if you're already signed in on this Wikipedia, leaving a post there will automatically set up an account there for you there but I'm not sure -- you might want to make a sandbox edit there first to be sure. -- A. B. (talk • contribs) 12:42, 24 March 2009 (UTC)

Taizong (the leader) links to disambig page
Would it be correct to assume he's Emperor Taizong of Tang? Kanjo Kotr (talk) 13:08, 2 March 2010 (UTC)
 * Best not to make assumptions. If someone has the Chinese manual, perhaps they can verify.  Or this leader could be removed from the list, as this is the English Wikipedia, not the Chinese one, and we don't need to know about that version of the game.  DP 76764  (Talk) 16:57, 2 March 2010 (UTC)

More Info on Great People
I was thinking that perhaps there should be more detailed info on the great people. Not necessarily a list, but perhaps an organizational chart that is done similiar to the civilizations with leaders, units, etc. My reasoning is that Great People are a huge part of the game and contribute to the educational value of the game. Who hasn't googled or wp'd some of the great people to learn more about them? Anyway, if they were listed here with links to their WP page, it could be valuable to the educational merit of WP, which in the end is learning and the sharing of knowledge. Hobbamock (talk) 03:43, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

There is also a mistake about great people generation mechanic. GP:s do not generate at random, instead the player's cities gather "gp points" that are visible in the city screen. When the bar is full in a certain city, a great person will spawn there with it's type chosen random from types determined by buildings that city has. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.249.81.36 (talk) 15:53, 10 February 2014 (UTC)

Removing Civ Tables/Trivial Lists
This is being discussed in the Civ:V article and likely to have ramifications for this previous incarnation's article too. Rather than tread the same ground over please join the debate; Talk:Civilization_V to see if we can't reach a consensus.-Oosh (talk) 12:12, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

2012
See: Talk:Civilization_V This is kicking off again, and maybe we can resolve it this time, this series of high-importance to the video gaming project but its articles are languishing in the lower ratings. This (I believe) is one of the reasons. Please join the discussion. -Oosh (talk) 12:23, 7 March 2012 (UTC)

Grammy Win for Baba Yetu
Does it bear mentioning that the theme song composed for this game, Baba Yetu, went on to later win a Grammy in 2010, the first piece of video game music to have achieved this honor? EdenMaster (talk) 20:55, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
 * Sounds like a good addition. Got a good source for it?  DP 76764  (Talk) 23:41, 14 February 2011 (UTC)

Fall from Heaven Article
I am currently in the process of writing an article in my userspace on the popular Civ IV mod Fall from Heaven. However, seeing as I am a relative n00b here on Wikipedia, I would much appreciate some help and/or support. If you wish, you can reach me on my talk page. Thanks! Willbat (talk) 01:42, 24 October 2011 (UTC)

I have no idea what I'm doing, but I was reading this article and saw many different parts of the article linked back to source #3, which is called abcdefghijk and appears to have been vandalized and/or incomplete. Just wanted to give you guys who know how to do things a heads up somewhere, even if this isn't the right place... (this isn't the same person as above sorry I don't know what I'm doing)

Thanks for your contribution (glad to see your first edit was constructive), but the link has not in fact been vandalised. The letters are all links to separate sections/pages of the Civilization IV game manual, and have been cited separately for ease of reference. Thankyou though, and keep on editing! P.S. After you post a message, please type four ~'s to sign your name, and include an edit summary where possible. It makes it a lot easier for everyone. P.P.S. If you want to post something not covered by the section heading, go to the top of the page and click the "new section" button. Thanks! Willbat (talk) 23:44, 23 November 2011 (UTC)

Cheats for multiplayer option
My son and I followed the cheat steps of changing the "0" to "chipotle" in the civ4 Beyond the Sword config file. It worked successfully in the LAN line singleplayer mode, not in the LAN line multiplayer mode...why? Please let us know what steps we need to take in order to get this cheat step to work in multiplayer mode. Can't wait to hear back from someone with help on this matter.

76.126.37.237 (talk) 07:01, 11 February 2012 (UTC)

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Civilization 4 Community Server
Hello, scince the shutdown of Gamespy is multiplayer dead.

but 2014 zulan and dingus wrote code for gamespy server replacement. its up 4 years now can somone it insert into the article, that multiplayer is working again?

http://civ.zulan.net is all details listed. idk how to edit wikipedia and dont want corrupt article.

glitches
glitch forum. comment glitches — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jackgtr (talk • contribs) 05:42, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Civilization IV


text:
Talk:Conjoined twins

21st Century Began with 2001
Someone incorrectly listed conjoined twins born in the year 2000 under the 21st Century. I moved them to the 20th Century list. FYI, the 21st century began on 1 January 2001. The year 2000 was the last year of the 20th Century.

For future reference, in case anyone needs it, there was no year numbered '0' because the Anno Domine system of counting years was established retroactively (see the article on the Julian and Gregorian calendars for details):

First Century, AD 1 - AD 100 (or 1 CE - 100 CE) Second Century, AD 101 - AD 200 ... Tenth Century, AD 901 - AD 1000 Eleventh Century, AD 1001 - AD 1100 ... Twentieth Century, AD 1901 - AD 2000 Twenty-First Century, AD 2001 - AD 2100

Unlike birthdays and anniversaries, which are counted from the end of a year, centuries and monarchial epochs are counted from the beginning of a year.

Thus, although 6 February 1953 was the first anniversary of Queen Elizabeth II's accession; the first year of her reign began 6 February 1952.

Likewise, the year 2000 marked the second millenium Anno Domine - that is, it marked the end of 2000 years of tabulation. But the third millenium and, with it, the twenty-first century, did not begin until 2001.

First decade of 21rst Century: 1/1/2001 - 31/12/2010 Second decade: 1/1/2011 - 31/12/2020 Third decade: 1/1/2021 - 31/12/2030 ... Ninth decade: 1/1/2081 - 31/12/2090 Tenth decade of 21rst Century: 1/1/2091 - 31/12/2100

The 22nd Century will begin 1/1/2101.

76.126.3.38 (talk) 08:02, 31 December 2011 (UTC)

Conjoined twins in popular culture
I shortened this section and kept in more well-known references to the best of my ability. The list was getting frivolous. In my opinion, I think that the list of conjoined twins section should also be shortened as it contains many dead links.Daskos99 (talk) 01:55, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

Two-Headed Monster from Sesame Street. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Drsruli (talk • contribs) 18:33, 19 March 2019 (UTC)

Joe-Jim Gregory from Heinlein's Orphans of the Sky. 104.153.40.58 (talk) 18:57, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

The earliest known documented case of conjoined twins dates from the year 945??
It is certainly not the earliest known record of conjoined twins. There are records of conjoined twins in China dates from the years 1AD, 176AD, 184AD, 316AD.

Conjoined triplets
The article makes no mention of the possibility, or any documented cases, of conjoined triplets or quadruplets. It seems more information can be found (with library references), [ http://askville.amazon.com/conjoined-triplets-siamese/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=8776166 here] and here. 70.241.97.2 (talk) 20:10, 19 December 2009 (UTC)

Yes it does, I wrote that section of the article. I noted the confirmed cases of Conjoined Triplets, and also gave examples of other cases were a set of triplets consists of two conjoined babies, and an example of one documented case where a set of Quadruplets had Conjoined Twins born in it. Why was this deleted? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.207.48.109 (talk) 03:30, 8 January 2012 (UTC)

Medical specimens
Image:Human conjoined twins DSC09364.jpg

Those photos of medical specimens are gruesome -- does anyone have a picture of living, healthy human conjoined twins? - Montréalais 20:53, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Agreed. I'm not for censorship but those are quite horrible. violet/riga (t) 21:59, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Right. To clarify, I didn't mean they should be]] [ Bjarmason]  16:12, 2004 Dec 22 (UTC)
 * I've replaced the two-headed-corpse-in-bottle picture with the one from Chang and Eng Bunker. Plop 10:59, Jan 19, 2005 (UTC)
 * The picture of Chang and Eng is fine. I'm removing the other human one; feel free to put it back if you so desire. Junkyardprince | Tark 03:33, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * I put the pictures back in, first of all because having another one does not cause trouble with the current layout (fits just perfectly), and second if one was to be removed I nominate the cattle, the anatomy of a human featus is better recognizable to the target audiance. —Ævar Arnfjörð Bjarmason
 * I'll admit to being a bit surprised by the fetus picture when I came here to do the disambig. How about if it's moved into third place, so it's below the fold (so to speak), as a compromise? —Korath (Talk) 07:12, Mar 4, 2005 (UTC)
 * that seems like the best course of action to me. Thryduulf 22:18, 4 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Siamese Twin's - Pejorative?
Th only source is an author's opinion on the subject from a single article. Can we say it is pejorative based on the opinion of one reporter? Either it needs more sources, needs to be elaborated, or just removed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.28.80.185 (talk) 23:17, 8 December 2008 (UTC)

Stuck on You
Should mention movie on subject. --Daniel C. Boyer 23:48, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Fission theory vs. Fusion theory?
I read that there are two different theories of how siamese twins come to be - the more commonly known one being the "fission" theory (an egg fails to completely seperate and thus two babies are joined), but the "fusion" theory (soft tissue during the first few weeks of birth joins when twin babies are cramped together in the womb) explains twins who are joined back to back, and would bring a measure of credulity to the term "conjoined".
 * Although the fission theory was once widely accepted, modern experimentation appears to have refuted it and confirmed that conjoined twins are caused by "fusion" . Schzmo 22:17, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
 * The fusion theory, as it is popularly known, does not quite say what people think it does. The fusion, such as it is, happens when each embryo is about 3 layers of cells thick.  Calling this "fusion" gives an impression of two fully formed fetuses merging, which is not accurate.  Furthermore, more recent research contradicts the review cited.  See, e.g.,  Childs Nerv Syst. 2004 Aug;20(8-9):508-25. Epub 2004 Jul 27. []: "Conjoined twinning occurs by the incomplete splitting of the embryonic axis and, with the exception of parasitic conjoined twins, all are symmetrical and "the same parts are always united to the same parts". Fusion of monozygotic twins is no longer believed to be the basis of conjoined twinning." Nandesuka 01:02, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

Is it possible for conjoined twins to be opposite genders? I haven't found anything about this besides Chimera twins. Those are just one person though...Is it possible to have two distinct twins that are opposite genders? It doesn't really sound possible with the fusion theory unless sex is determined(or maybe it could mutate?) past the point where the fusion happens. Also, can you have say conjoined triplets, or even quads or more? Emzly_Emzie

ok gender does not mutate like that. there have been cases of conjoined triplets, and as for quads, only in a situation where there were the four babies, two of which were joined. conjoined twins are identical genetically. there is evidence that too much sonic hedgehog protein (i am NOT making that up, it was discovered and named in the eighties), a protein involved in establishing the midline of a person, causes duplication of the face. it seems that some twining is like this :""Conjoined twinning occurs by the incomplete splitting of the embryonic axis and, with the exception of parasitic conjoined twins, all are symmetrical and "the same parts are always united to the same parts". " but definitely not all. the worlds oldest twins are joined at the head on an angle and are not symmetrical. There is more than one cause of these conditions.

Still did not get an answer on whether or not conjoined twins can be male-female. I'm assuming so since I've heard of Chimeras that have both male and female genitalia, and they are (in a sense) conjoined twins. Emzly_Emzie

 * You did get an answer on the male-female question, if the person above you is right about gender "not mutating like that". (Conjoined twins could only be different genders if one's gender mutated.) However, that person also said that there have been conjoined triplets and I know of no such case (and have read that there has been no such case). There have just been identical triplets where two are conjoined. That person also said that the world's oldest [conjojned] twins (presumably meaning Lori and Reba Schappell, actually just the oldest female conjoined twins) are not symmetrically joined, but they are - just rotationally rather than laterally. Salopian (talk) 15:43, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

one brain
"In some cases, parts of the brain have been known to be shared between conjoined twins joined at the head." any examples of this? survivability? seems to be an incredible event with many implications. Oh and that picture is truly gruesome.

hey is this how you answer a question? well, there are a couple of little girls from italy due to be seperated in June 07 who share a little brain matter. if i remember correctly, its part of one girl's occipital lobe and somewhere around the other's pariatal lobe that overlap. I have no idea how they'll make their way around this problem when they seperate them, but they have to, because both kidneys of one of the girls are failing.

Venna And Vani shared a brain.look it up on google images.Coolgirly88 20:58, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

The Pain
Does the mother feels more pain then a normal chlid birth?
 * I would think that women pregnant with conjoined twins would have a c-section. Emzly_Emzie
 * I would think so as well, but in earlier times (middle ages and before), how did they a) diagnose conjoined twins and b) perform a c-section without the mother dying? Jalwikip 15:07, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

In Uzbek city Khorezm were born new conjoined twins
July 21, 2006. New babies in Uzbek city Khorezm were born conjoined earlier this month according to news website ferghana.ru. Babies are boys. They are conjoined from the front abdomen and share common liver which will probably cause one of the babies' fatality in case if they will be separated.  []

Crappy article
This article has nothing at all about how it actually works - how they control the body, etc. --SPUI (T - C) 23:37, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 * And can conjoined twins legally marry or have children, I'm particularly refering to those with only on set of sexual organs. For example, who were the oldest living Dicephalus twins, and did they have one spouse or two?

Yes, we really need info about how "they" work, as with the body and organs and stuff. What if one commits suicide and the other lives on, what happens. Many questions can be answered to quench the thirst for knowledge!

^ I'm pretty sure the other one would die pretty soon after the first. Depending on where they're joined etc, one generally can't survive without the other. I saw a documentary about Chang and Eng. As I recall, Eng liked to drink a lot but Chang was a teetotaller. When Eng had been drinking would Chang also feel drunk?

 * Yeah, this article really needs some more information. It gives me plently of examples of the types of conjoinings and lists people that are conjoined, but like I wanna know like, what if one of the twins wants to move their arm one way and the other one wants to move it the other way? Do they like each get one arm each or what. If one person eats does the other twin get to eat or only feel full?

 * I'd think that each individual case of conjoined twining would be different. Thus, it would be difficult to say how they function.  Emzly_Emzie

On the legal front, what would happen if one of a pair of conjoined twins committed a crime? Unlikely though it sounds, it might be possible with a pair of pypopagus or other twins with control of one or two arms each. Would they both go to prison, even if one was innocent? Twit8514 —The preceding  signed but undated.

 * The twins Violet and Daisy Hilton, who had a silent/early sound movie career, made a film on that topic. It's really hard to track down though, sadly.. 79.68.57.25 (talk) 11:33, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

What's the word...?
Its like a weasal word but its put by some one who is sypathetic &/or suppotive to what the article concerns and put there to make it sound more good then it really is? Whatever its called, all the articles linking from this page are FULL of them. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.250.130.215 (talk • contribs)

Systemic bias in "Conjoined twins in history" section
The "Conjoined twins in history" section seems to address the subject mainly from a Western/European perspective. I highly doubt that the "earliest known case" of the condition in all of human history dates from A.D. 945. Most of the other examples discussed seem to be of European or American origin as well. --Slowking Man 05:43, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Organization
I think the "Types of Conjoined Twins" should perhaps be put before the "History" section -- reading the History, it mentions what types of twins certain people were, which leaves one a bit confused until they read the Types section.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.15.127.230 (talk • contribs) 23:51, 13 April 2007

 * Hear, hear. --Kingers 17:49, 26 August 2007 (UTC)

meaning
does anyone know why siamese twins are called saimese twins? Is it racially/ethnicity linked or is it just one of those things? Started by ignorant people because they had a grudge? Does anyone know the origins of the term? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.81.253.110 (talk) 05:21, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Because chang and ang bunker were born in Siam,thus ghiving the name,"Siamese twins"Coolgirly88 20:59, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

During pregancy
When they do scans during pregnancy, is it obvious that the twins are cojoined, and can they tell the extent or anything like what organs are shared? Or is it one of those things you only find out after giving birth? 79.68.57.25 (talk) 11:33, 20 April 2008 (UTC)

Documented Cases
I'm wondering if there are any documented cases of attempting to separate conjoined twins using an axe.

Any info on this would be greatly appreciated. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 125.24.72.172 (talk) 08:59, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Juridical questions/problems
It would be good to have some information about how different countrys handles with the juridical problems that can appear with conjoined twins. Crime and punishment (what if one of them must go to jail?), marriage (juridical, sexual AND religion questions), ID-cards, voting, parentals (who is the mother/father), taxes (one or two tickets for airplane, cinema, buffet, doctors payments, etc), driving license (some has succeeded this). Or juridical conflicts between the twins.

In the case this problems has appear it would be intresting to know how it was solved. Fabbe (talk) 15:22, 15 January 2009 (UTC)
 * Abigail and Brittany Hensel both have driving licences, and both had to sit their test. I seem to remember a program about them last year.82.6.1.85 (talk) 21:49, 17 August 2010 (UTC)Lance Tyrell.

Painting used twice: Bunker twins
Is it necessary to use the painting of the Bunker twins twice in this article? --Ericdn (talk) 11:25, 15 February 2009 (UTC)

Other Conjoined Twins
I don't see the Bailey twins (Emma and Taylor) born in 2006,who share a heart (and are up for separation soon),mentioned here.They are the longest living conjoined twins who share a heart. Currently a campaign called Two Sisters/One Heart is being utilized to help raise funds for their upcoming surgery.

www.emmaandtaylorbailey.blogspot.com/

Also Lisa Chamberlain,from Britain,is expecting conjoined twins,who also,at this point,appear to share a heart,with connecting fully-formed bodies as well.I do not know her due date. Nc40lady (talk) 15:34, 28 May 2009 (UTC)Nc40lady

There is also another set of conjoined twins missing from this list. Fonda and Shannon Beaver. They were born in 1980, have been separated, and are doing well. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Sebeaver (talk • contribs) 04:23, 23 July 2010 (UTC)

I also don't see Angela and Amy Lakeburg,they were relatively well known, weren't they, even without the father's criminal actions? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.201.144.231 (talk) 06:29, 9 December 2010 (UTC)

An old italian Magazine (Tempo dated June 20, 1953) shows four photos of little Rodney Dee Brodie, the sole survived craniopagus twin after the surgery made at the Illinois Medical Center of Chicago on December 17, 1952. --95.176.204.233 (talk) 09:40, 26 October 2011 (UTC)

Book
In Kendra and Maliyah's case, it says that the book is the only book written by a parent of conjoined twins, but thisisn't true. Parents of former conjoined twin Lea Block have written a book about their experiences.--24.138.78.39 (talk) 11:35, 16 July 2009 (UTC)

Please provide a reliable source to verify this. Thanks,  fetch  comms  ☛ 02:42, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

 * I need a book title and ISBN to check before change the article, more specifically. -- The New  Mikemoral  ♪♫ 02:44, 28 December 2009 (UTC)

they are rare .. hahaahah .... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.54.98.94 (talk) 12:19, 28 February 2010 (UTC)

sydney katie lexie alex carly laurn and erin are all conjoined sexatillians and they only pay for 1 movie ticket and 1 plaine ticket and they love hickeys--174.116.160.101 (talk) 16:14, 29 September 2014 (UTC)

Rosa Blazek Pregnancy
In the article Rosa Blazek's pregnancy is stated as fact, but there are conflicting doctor's reports. A port-mortem autopsy was said to have shown evidence that neither twin had ever been pregnant (http://thehumanmarvels.com/?p=139). According to the comments there was a doctor who claimed to have been present for the birth. I don't have primary sources for any of this conjecture, so I'm not going to change the article at this time. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.253.187.182 (talk) 13:49, 18 June 2010 (UTC) Two days ago on Australian "60 Minutes"(Nine Network) I learnt of Macey and MacKenzie Garrison, not mentioned in your list of cases.-Geoffrey Hilliard —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.32.83.115 (talk) 03:23, 7 September 2010 (UTC)

Shalonda and Renesha
I've removed from the first the following parenthetical information: "(also known as Shalonda or a Renesha)". These are not terms I had heard before, and a quick google search brings up no information on their relevance to conjoined twins. The article does not explain the etymology or significance of these terms. They may be terms used in another language for conjoined twins, but unless somebody can show their use in English or relevance to English-language material, I think it is better to leave them out. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.61.192.150 (talk) 00:36, 25 June 2012 (UTC)

Are conjoined twins always identical twins?
I've seen reports of apprently normal individuals who turn out to be a fusion of two genetically distinct individuals: this can upset DNA testing. So I'm wondering if some of them are genetically distinct. --GwydionM (talk) 19:33, 7 February 2013 (UTC)

Individuality
Would twins joined at the head/brain be one person with an extra body on their head, or have separate minds/personalities? Also, do they share the same DNA? 142.166.204.52 (talk) 01:21, 24 May 2013 (UTC)

Correction re Craniopagus Twins
The following statement is inaccurate: "In 1987, Ben Carson made medical history by being the first surgeon in the entire world to successfully separate conjoined twins (the Binder twins) conjoined at the back of the head (craniopagus twins). Operations to separate twins joined in this way had always failed, resulting in the death of one or both of the infants."

The first successful separation of craniopagus twins was in fact performed in 1979 by Dr. Theodore S. Roberts et al at the University of Utah Medical Center.

Please google "Lisa and Elisa Hansen" and/or refer to these newspaper articles:

99.28.65.29 (talk) 06:26, 8 November 2014 (UTC)

Why does "ectopagus" redirect here?
Not mentioned in article. 109.157.79.50 (talk) 21:57, 19 January 2015 (UTC)

Conjoined twins in ficiton
Need to mention the movie "Twin Falls Idaho" (1999). 173.167.122.145 (talk) 08:21, 15 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified
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I don’t know how to upload an image. So, could someone do it?
There is a fantastic second-hand source from John Skylitzes who made a book in which contained many images of various stuff. In one of them he has made some drawing of the separation of the conjoined twins in which happened in Constantinople in the 940’s. The image is in that text beneath. You can see how some doctors examine the conjoined twins, and at the end you can see how they try to separate the dead body of the death one:

http://www.medievalists.net/2014/01/the-case-of-conjoined-twins-in-10th-century-byzantium/

About John Skylitzes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Skylitzes

Can anybody upload the image?

En historiker (talk) 19:02, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

maths issue
Conjoined twins are identical twins[1] joined in utero. An extremely rare phenomenon, the occurrence is estimated to range from 1 in 49,000 births to 1 in 189,000 births, with a somewhat higher incidence in Southeast Asia and Africa.[2] Approximately half are stillborn, and an additional one-third die within 24 hours. Most live births are female, with a ratio of 3:1.[2][3]

This means there are 700 Siamese twins in the UK alone? How come I've never seen two? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Darcourse (talk • contribs) 09:32, 25 March 2018 (UTC)

 * I'd love to help puzzle this out with you, but I get between 60 and 230, going by the 2019 population estimate on United Kingdom (which I grant is a population estimate and not a statistic on everyone conceived in the timespan that would lead up to conjoined people alive right now, but still. To be fair, even just looking at Stillbirth and Miscarriage suggests I should be at least doubling that number, which may be where the discrepancy between my numbers and yours comes from). Can you show the math you're doing and which numbers you're using?
 * In any case, part of the puzzle you're facing is likely that the numbers in the quoted section don't yet factor in further mortality after 24 hours (but before you might encounter them strolling down the street) and, more importantly, that you might not realise the survivors are conjoined twins, given they may have gotten separated.
 * The other part may be sheer statistical distribution. If conjoined twins appear completely randomly, you might need to, even before factoring in the things mentioned in the previous paragraph, be aware of 49 000 (distinct) people before you'd become aware of one.
 * I hope those last bits help a bit whenever you check back here. :)
 * -pinkgothic (talk) 01:05, 25 January 2020 (UTC)

Missing Allison and David Lawler's twins from 2001
I was reading the article and noticed that it did not include Allison and David Lawler's conjoined twins, Mary Grace and Elizabeth Rix. Information from this was gained from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1121413/. The twins were successfully birthed, but died shortly after. They were joined at the heart. Yes. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:1700:B7D0:D4C0:D0BE:159D:AE23:1F15 (talk) 00:30, 3 March 2021 (UTC)

Fiction
This article had more than 40 examples of characters in al types of fiction, a mixed grab-bag of trivia that is exactly what wikipedia topic articles are not supposed to be. I have removed most of them, except notable examples where the twins are the central point of the fiction (rather than just one of several characters). If somebody wants to create a list article, you can find the entire list in an earlier edit. - DavidWBrooks (talk) 16:34, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

 * Hello @DavidWBrooks, I did too: Apart from almost no sourcing, there was also a WP:PROPORTION problem. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 16:43, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Placement of the lamb photo
I think placing the photo of the conjoined lambs in the "notable people" section is in poor taste. Please consider moving it elsewhere in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 68.196.203.200 (talk) 15:14, 30 October 2021 (UTC)

Unclear sentence in the intro regarding survival rates
"Approximately half are stillborn, and an additional one-third die within 24 hours."

This strikes me as unclear. One-third of the remaining half that aren't stillborn, or like one-third overall, from the original total? As in, 50% stillborn, 33% within the next day, 17% survive? 68.119.87.117 (talk) 15:18, 25 January 2023 (UTC)

room = chamber of the heart?
Is it standard English to refer to the four chambers of the human heart aw "rooms"? TomS TDotO (talk) 03:26, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

Triplets
Should anything be mentioned about conjoined triplets or the only known case of them?https://www.ajog.org/article/S0002-9378(04)01826-5/abstract Startrain844 (talk) 18:47, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Conjoined twins


text:
Telecinco

Telecinco is a Spanish free-to-air television channel operated by Mediaset España. The channel was previously known as Tele 5, because it had first begun its experimental transmissions on 10 March 1989, and a year later, it was officially launched on 3 March, 1990, becoming the fifth of the national terrestrial television channels and the second private channel in Spain. In 1997, Tele 5 was rebranded as Telecinco, dropping the biscione-absent flower logo seen in other Mediaset channel logos.

History
On April 4, 1986, the Council of Ministers of Spain approved private television in the country, the legislation was approved in 1988. On August 25, 1989, the contest was held to obtain three private television licenses, which were granted to Gestevisión Telecinco, Grupo Antena 3 and Sogecable.

Tele 5 began transmissions experimentally in 1989 to officially begin broadcasting on 3 March 1990, although with limited coverage in Madrid and Barcelona. In January 1991, it achieved national coverage by starting broadcasts in the Canary Islands.

From its foundation until 1994, Tele 5 was directed by Valeriu Lazarov. During this period, a television channel similar to the Italian Canale 5 was made, with a lineup based mainly on entertainment programmes such as game, variety and comedy shows, in addition to some serials and movies, leaving the newscasts as 15-minute programmes broadcast at dawn and at night. With this formula the channel achieved its first audience successes.

In 1994, Maurizio Carlotti was appointed as the new director of the network, this with the aim of improving the financial and programme situation, as Tele 5 had lost audiences and advertisers to Antena 3. Carlotti opted for an increase in the production of series and programme formats that had not been tried out in Spain, such as late-night chat shows. In 1997, the channel was reformed so that the links with Canale 5 were scrapped (Telecinco became the first Mediaset channel to drop its trademark flower logo) and news output was increased. It was also at this time the channel re-branded from Tele 5 to Telecinco.

In 1999, Carlotti became the vice president of Telecinco and acted as CEO of Mediaset, so the direction of the channel passed to Paolo Vasile, who ran the channel from that year until October 2022. With the arrival of the new millennium, Telecinco began broadcasting reality shows and sporting events - the final of the first series of Gran Hermano remains Telecinco's highest rated broadcast ever. In 2004 the channel began trading on the Madrid Stock Exchange and that same year, it won the title of most-watched channel from La 1. During this period, the channel began to be accused of trash TV due to the proliferation of spaces dedicated to gossip and related entertainment, which were present in Telecinco from its creation until 2023.

On 30 November 2005, Telecinco launched Telecinco Estrellas and Telecinco Sport, the network's thematic channels dedicated to the consolidation of the brand in Spanish digital terrestrial television, which was released on the same day. On 20 September 2010, Telecinco began transmissions in HD.

In 2009 Gestevisión Telecinco and PRISA TV began the procedures for the merger of the open television divisions of both companies. The agreement took effect on 1 January 2011, the new company resulting from this process was renamed Mediaset España Comunicación.

After the merger, Mediaset came to control eight channels: Cuatro; LaSiete; Factoría de Ficción; Divinity; Boing; Energy and Nueve, so part of its programming was allocated to the grids of the rest of the group's channels. In May 2014, LaSiete and Nueve were closed due to a court order. In 2016 Telecinco launched Be Mad.

In 2017, the channel was involved in a scandal due to an alleged sexual abuse that occurred during Gran Hermano, the local version of Big Brother. The crisis resulted in the abandonment of some advertisers due to the network's handling of the crisis, which was accused of acting late, exposing the victim to reliving the situation and trying to silence the information related to the act.

In 2022, Telecinco began to suffer from an exhaustion in its programming, which resulted in the loss of leadership in favor of Antena 3. For this reason, Mediaset initiated a reform in the channel's programming, Paolo Vasile left his position after twenty-three years and was replaced by Alessandro Salem, who assumed greater responsibility in the position.

In 2023 Telecinco started to eliminate gossip and social affairs programmes for more family-oriented content such as game and reality shows, in addition to establishing a series of guidelines for presenters and collaborators on the channel, to which they prohibited them from issuing political ideas on entertainment programs or criticising other programs on the network and some celebrities. Its new slogan, Contigo siempre, was intended to reflect the new family-friendly style. The channel had been criticised for chat shows such as Sálvame taking up the vast majority of the channel's daytime output, and questionable scheduling, such as programmes with a 16+ rating aired across daytime slots.

Programming
In 2014, Telecinco was the most viewed channel in Spain with a share of 14.5%. Telecinco is a general channel catering to all audiences. It shows popular films, series, and entertainment shows.

The channel's programming includes such series as La que se avecina, Sin tetas no hay paraíso, and Aída, as well as entertainment shows such as Crónicas marcianas and Hay una cosa que te quiero decir and the talent show The Voice. For many years the channel had a reputation for celebrity gossip and daytime chat shows such as Sálvame and El programa de Ana Rosa, however after the channel's reformatting in 2023, which saw Sálvame axed and Ana Rosa moved to a more competitive afternoon timeslot, this has started to decrease.

The channel is also known for its reality shows, having produced a number of popular series in the last decade – Gran Hermano, Supervivientes, Hotel Glam, and Operación Triunfo, amongst others. Reality shows made up much of the content of the channel's other programmes. All of these programmes experienced a substantial ratings boost thanks to the so-called Reality Effect.

Production
Telecinco has digitalised their production facilities. It allowed them to broadcast their channels in up to Spanish and original language, stereo sound, interactive services and high-definition television.

title: Telecinco


text:
Toyota Motor Sales, USA

Toyota Motor Sales, USA, Inc. (TMS, also known as Toyota USA) is the North American Toyota sales, marketing, and distribution subsidiary devoted to the United States market. Founded in 1957 in California, TMS currently employs more than 6,500 people. As of spring 2017 Toyota moved to a new campus in Plano, Texas. Construction of this new facility began in the fall of 2014, and is located at the corner of Texas State Highway 121 and Legacy Drive, across the street from the FedEx Office Headquarters, and the J. C. Penney World Headquarters. The former location of Toyota's headquarters was Torrance, California, where they supervised 14 regional offices. TMS oversees the sales of Toyota and Lexus products in 49 states through a network of over 1,200 Toyota dealers (of whom more than 900 also previously sold Scion vehicles) and over 200 Lexus dealers. California has the greatest number of Toyota dealerships of any other state at 172 dealerships. Toyota vehicles in Hawaii are distributed by Servco Pacific. TMS develops Toyota's television campaigns and other nationwide marketing materials, and supervises dealer marketing to ensure that dealers present a uniform image. TMS also manages regional distribution, which occurs through 12 parts centers and five vehicle centers. James E. Lentz III is the president of TMS.

Plano headquarters move
In 2014 Toyota announced it was moving its United States headquarters to Plano, Texas in the Dallas-Fort Worth area. The new headquarters will have around 4,000 total employees, including about 2,000 employees from the current headquarters and 1,000 employees from Toyota Financial Services, which also was in Torrance. The company plans to permanently move most employees by the time of completion of the new headquarters, late 2016 or early 2017, while initially the company will open a temporary office in Texas and move small groups of employees there in the interim. The administration of the Dallas Japanese School, the supplementary Japanese school serving Japanese citizen and Japanese American children living in the DFW area, stated that it expected to receive an additional 150 students due to the headquarters move.

On Tuesday April 29, 2014, Mayor of Dallas Mike Rawlings stated that Toyota had considered moving the US offices to the City of Dallas but decided against it due to the quality of the Dallas Independent School District (DISD). A spokesperson of Toyota stated that the company, when deciding where to relocate, considered higher education, K-12 schools, access to the airport, and cost of living. The spokesperson did not say which cities other than Plano were being considered. In response to the move, the mayor of Torrance, Frank Scotto, stated that he was "very disappointed" by the decision.

Matthew Haag of The Dallas Morning News stated that Toyota may have moved its headquarters to suburban Plano because of its similarities to Torrance, another suburban city.

Former headquarters
The company formerly maintained its headquarters in Torrance, California in Greater Los Angeles. The campus has six buildings, with a total of 2000000 sqft of office space. In 2012 a 1.1 megawatt hydrogen fuel cell generator was installed at the campus, giving half of the power for the six buildings during the peak demand period. The generator does not generate emissions. By using the generator, as of 2012 the company saves $130,000 in utility bill charges. As of 2014 the headquarters has 5,300 employees.

On October 31, 1957, Toyota opened its first United States office in a former Rambler/Ford dealership, at 6000 Hollywood Blvd. As of July 2022 that building is still a Toyota dealership. Because the city had airline access to Tokyo and because of the proximity to the Port of Los Angeles the US division of Toyota located its headquarters in the Los Angeles area.

The Torrance headquarters opened in 1982. In 2003 the Toyota South Campus in Torrance received the Golden Nugget Award.

Passenger cars

 * Corolla (gasoline and hybrid)
 * Camry (gasoline and hybrid)
 * Crown (hybrid)
 * Mirai (fuel cell vehicle)
 * Prius (hybrid)
 * Prius Prime (hybrid)

Sports Cars

 * GR86
 * GR Corolla
 * GR Supra

Crossovers, SUVs and minivans

 * 4Runner
 * bZ4X
 * Corolla Cross
 * Crown Signia
 * Grand Highlander
 * Highlander
 * Land Cruiser
 * RAV4
 * Sequoia
 * Sienna

Pickup trucks

 * Tacoma
 * Tundra

Passenger cars

 * ES (gasoline and hybrid)
 * IS
 * LS (gasoline and hybrid)

Coupes

 * LC (gasoline and hybrid)
 * RC
 * RC F

Crossovers and SUVs

 * GX
 * LX
 * NX
 * RX
 * RZ
 * TX
 * UX

Distribution
In early 1968, Jim Moran was contacted by a friend from Chicago who said that Toyota wanted to establish a dealer network in the Southeast U.S. and wanted to talk to him. Moran asked what a Toyota was. The company had been unsuccessful at breaking into the American market at the end of the 1950s and was trying again. Moran declined, but his friend was insistent that Moran drive one. According to Moran, he tested everything to see if it would break. While cruising at 55 mph on the interstate, Moran shifted into reverse, and the engine and transmission survived. Moran concluded that although Toyotas weren't as stylish or comfortable as domestic vehicles, they were well-built, reasonably priced, and destined to change the automotive business. On October 26, 1968, he entered into an agreement to distribute Toyota vehicles from the Port of Jacksonville and Southeast Toyota Distributors (SET) was founded that year.

There was a similar story for Thomas H. Friedkin. During the 1960s, one of Friedkin's hobbies was racing cars. He was friends with Carroll Shelby, famous for designing the AC Cobra and the Shelby Mustang. Shelby had turned down an offer to become a distributor for Toyota because Lee Iacocca told Shelby that "the domestic makers were going to push the Japanese back into the ocean". Shelby introduced Friedkin to Toyota, and Friedkin entered into an agreement to distribute Toyota vehicles from the Port of Houston. Gulf States Toyota Distributors (GST) was founded in 1969.

Toyota Dealers in the remaining 40 states receive their vehicles from Toyota Motor Sales.

Southeast Toyota Distributors
Southeast Toyota Distributors, a subsidiary of JM Family Enterprises, is the world's largest independent distributor of Toyota vehicles in the United States. With 177 independent Toyota dealers in the five-state region of Alabama, Florida, Georgia, and North and South Carolina, Southeast Toyota sells 24% of Toyota sales in the U.S.

Gulf States Toyota Distributors
Gulf States Toyota Distributors, a subsidiary of Friedkin Group, is the other independent distributor of Toyota vehicles in the United States. Their 158 independent Toyota dealers sell vehicles in the five states of Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Oklahoma, and Texas.

Marketing
Toyota Motor Sales USA purchased the naming rights to the Toyota Center in Houston, Texas in 2003. The 20-year deal was worth $95 million; $4.75 million per year. It was the 10th most expensive naming deal for an NBA facility. The arena is home to the Houston Rockets of the National Basketball Association. and was the first time a sports facility in Houston was sponsored by an international company.

title: Toyota Motor Sales, USA


text:
Friedrich Bleek

Friedrich Bleek (4 July 1793, in Ahrensbök in Holstein (a village near Lübeck) – 27 February 1859, in Bonn), was a German Biblical scholar.

Life
At 16 Bleek's father sent him to the gymnasium at Lübeck, where he became so interested in ancient languages that he abandoned his idea of a legal career and resolved to devote himself to the study of theology. After spending some time at the university of Kiel, he went to Berlin, where, from 1814 to 1817, he studied under De Wette, Neander and Schleiermacher. So highly were his merits appreciated by his professors — Schleiermacher was accustomed to say that he possessed a special charisma for the science of Introduction — that in 1818 after he had passed the examinations for entering the ministry he was recalled to Berlin as a Repentant or tutorial fellow in theology, a temporary post which the theological faculty had obtained for him.

Besides discharging his duties in the theological seminary, he published two dissertations in Schleiermacher's and GCF Lücke's Journal (1819-1820, 1822), one on the origin and composition of the Sibylline Oracles, Über die Entstehung und Zusammensetzung der Sibyllinischen Orakel, and another on the authorship and design of the Book of Daniel, Über Verfasser und Zweck des Buches Daniel. These articles attracted much attention, and were distinguished by those qualities of solid learning, thorough investigation and candour of judgment which characterized all his writings.

Bleek's merits as a rising scholar were recognized by the minister of public instruction, who continued his stipend as Repentant for a third year, and promised further advancement in due time. But the attitude of the political authority underwent a change. De Wette was dismissed from his professorship in 1819, and Bleek, a favorite pupil, incurred the suspicion of the government as an extreme democrat. Not only was his stipend as Repentant discontinued, but his nomination to the office of professor extraordinarius, which had already been signed by the minister Karl Altenstein, was withheld. At length it was found that Bleek had been confounded with a certain Baueleven Blech, and in 1823 he received the appointment.

During the six years that Bleek remained at Berlin, he twice declined a call to the office of professor ordinarius of theology, once to Greifswald and once to Kanigsberg. In 1829, however, he was induced to accept Lücke's chair in the recently founded University of Bonn, and entered upon his duties there in the summer of the same year. For thirty years he laboured with ever-increasing success, due not to any attractions of manner or to the enunciation of novel or bizarre opinions, but to the soundness of his investigations, the impartiality of his judgments, and the clearness of his method. In 1843 he was raised to the office of consistorial councillor, and was selected by the university to hold the office of rector, a distinction which has not since been conferred upon any theologian of the Reformed Church. He died suddenly of apoplexy on 27 February 1859.

Bleek's works belong entirely to the departments of Biblical criticism and exegesis. His views on questions of Old Testament criticism were advanced in his own day; for on all the disputed points concerning the unity and authorship of the books of the Old Covenant he was opposed to received opinion. But with respect to the New Testament his position was conservative. An opponent of the Tübingen school, his defence of the genuineness and authenticity of the gospel of St John is among the ablest that have been written; and although on some minor points his views did not altogether coincide with, those of the traditional school, his critical labors on the New Testament must nevertheless be regarded as among the most important contributions to the maintenance of orthodox opinions.

His greatest work, his commentary on the epistle to the Hebrews (Brief an die Hebraer erlautert durch Einleilung, Ubersetzung, und fortlaufenden Commentar, in three parts, 1828, 1836 and 1840) won the highest praise from men like De Wette and Fr. Delitzsch. This work was abridged by Bleek for his college lectures, and was published in that condensed form in 1868. In 1846 he published his contributions to the criticism, of the gospels (Beiträge zur Evangelien Kritik, pt. i.), which contained his defence of St John's gospel, and arose out of a review of JHA Ebrard's Wissenschaflliche Kritik der Evangelischen Geschichte (1842).

Posthumously-published works
The following works were published after Bleek's death: Bleek also contributed many articles to the Studien und Kritiken. For further information on Bleek's life and writings, see Kamphausen's article in Herzog-Hauck, Realencyklopädie; Frédéric Lichtenberger's Histoire des idées religieuses en Allemagne, vol. iii.; Diestel's Geschichte des Alten Testamentes (1869); and TK Cheyne's Founders of Old Testament Criticism (1893).
 * 1) His Introduction to the Old Testament (Einleitung in das Alte Testament), (3rd ed., 1869); En,g. trans. by GH Venables (from 2nd ed., 1869); in 1878 a new edition (the 4th) appeared, under the editorship of Julius Wellhausen, who made extensive alterations and additions
 * 2) his Introduction to the New Testament (3rd ed., W Mangold, 1875), Eng. trans. (from 2nd German ed.) by William Urwick (1869, 1870)
 * 3) his Exposition of the First Three Gospels (Synoptische Erklärung der drei ersten Evangelien), by H Holtzmann (1862)
 * 4) his Lectures on the Apocalypse (Vorlesungen über die Apokalypse), (Eng. trans. 1875). Besides these there has also appeared a small volume containing Lectures on Colossians, Philemon and Ephesians (Berlin, 1865)

title: Friedrich Bleek


text:
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Naming and listing conventions (Hong Kong and Macau)

Naming and listing conventions (Hong Kong and Macau) was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was DELETE

Reason I recommended this article for VfD

The person (202.61.114.37) who wrote this article also proposed at Requested moves that the Macao article, which is set up as a redirect to Macau be set up as the article and reestablish Macau as the redirect. This article, claiming to be a convention, should be taken with not just a grain, but a bucketloader of salt, as the anonymous editor who proposed this is forwarding an agenda, most likely as a backlash for the opposition he received at Requested moves, and Wikipedia shouldn't be used to make a point. —ExplorerCDT 20:59, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete —ExplorerCDT 20:59, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Wikipedia talk:Naming and listing conventions (Hong Kong and Macau) includes comments his proposals from a couple Wikipedians. My instinct is to move both to anon's user space, at least. Samaritan 05:04, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * This is not yet a conventions, but a proposal. -- 202.61.115.255, 15:50, December 22, 2004, UTC
 * Delete. This is not how policy is formulated, at least not as I know it. --JuntungWu 05:17, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes. This is only a proposal. -- 202.61.115.255, 15:51, December 22, 2004, UTC
 * Redirect to Naming conventions (Chinese) as article contains no useful information concerning Macau and HK other than what is already outlines at Naming conventions (Chinese). If not, then delete. --Jiang 06:40, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Not very true. I don't think the situations of Hong Kong and Macau (Macao) are already covered by that article). -- 202.61.115.255, 15:52, December 22, 2004, UTC
 * Move to user page, otherwise delete. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 09:34, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)
 * I don't think we should move to user pages of a non-static IP --Jiang 22:12, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * This is a proposal, and there is already a note telling people it is a proposal. -- 202.61.115.255, 15:52, December 22, 2004, UTC
 * Delete. Jayjg 22:45, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete Zigzagoon 01:35, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Would you mind telling the reason(s) why you think it should be deleted? Thank you. 202.61.119.110 20:21, December 27, 2004, UTC

Discussion
The reason why I suggested a set of conventions for Hong Kong and Macau (Macao) is that the situation of Hong Kong and Macau are not exactly the same with the mainland China, and the Naming conventions (Chinese) has no policy on the special situation of Hong Kong and Macau. English names for places and people in the two SARs are not based on Hanyu Pinyin. And it is often confusing to people who are not familiar with the situation of the two SARs that the two are ordinary province-level divisions under the PRC.

Huaiwei had put up a note that it is not yet a set conventions, but a proposal that need people to give their opinion and suggestion, and to modify and improve. -- 15:59, December 21, 2004, UTC

To ExplorerCDT, you'd better check which come first. This piece of proposal was put up before I requested the move. -- 16:01, December 21, 2004, UTC

 * Can we not have anonymous discussions? I feel uncomfortable that someone can remain anonymous in such discussions. By the way I am voting delete (see above) since I don't see a need for a separate set of guidelines for Hong Kong that's not included in the Naming conventions (Chinese). --JuntungWu 16:59, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I choose not to sign in to say anything or to do any edits, and this is my choice. What should I sign when I choose not to sign in?
 * There are special situations that the Naming conventions (Chinese) is not covered, and therefore an additional guideline is required. -- 18:13, December 21, 2004, UTC
 * I will not continue discussing with anonymous posters. If someone can't own up to what they say, they shouldn't say it. Post your identity, or stop wasting my time. —ExplorerCDT 18:48, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Even if you've signed in, you've gotta tell the truth before staging a vote for deletion. Being anonymous is not a sin, and in fact it's rather easy to trace who I am. -- 07:12, December 22, 2004, UTC
 * I told you many times before - sign with four ~. That will mark your IP address, which should be your handle if you dont sign in. Otherwsie it's hard to follow.--Jiang 22:12, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I am not using a fixed IP. It doesn't help much for signing with not the same IP. -- 07:11, December 22, 2004, UTC
 * Please don't try to cirumvent the rules. It does help since we see the same IP range and seeing one IP can allow us to trace the contributions of that single IP. If you want to get away with this, then I will ignore you.--Jiang 15:32, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Fine. Please go back and tell why do you guys think that the special situations of Hong Kong and Macau are already covered by Naming conventions (Chinese). -- 202.61.115.255, 15:47, December 22, 2004, UTC
 * Further comment. I am not against what you are advocating (I have no view on this) but this is NOT how policy is formulated. There are proper procedures to do so. --JuntungWu 12:43, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Could you please suggest how should a set of conventions be proposed? -- 202.61.119.110 20:20, December 27, 2004, UTC

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