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Ranganathananda

Swami Ranganathananda (15 December 1908 – 25 April 2005) was a Hindu swami of the Ramakrishna Math order. He served as the 13th president of the Ramakrishna Math and Mission.

Biography
Swami Ranganathananda, (pre-monastic name Shankaran Kutty), was born on 15 December 1908 in a village called Trikkur near Trichur, in Kerala to Neelakanta Sastry and Lakshmikutty Amma. As a teenager, he was attracted by the teachings of Swami Vivekananda and Ramakrishna and joined the Mysore centre of Ramakrishna Order as a Brahmachari in 1926. He served the Mysore Centre for 9 years and was under Swami Siddheswarananda and another 3 years under him in the Bangalore centre. He was initiated as a Sannyasi (monk) in 1933, on the 70th anniversary of Vivekananda's birth by Shivananda, a direct disciple of Ramakrishna. Between 1939 and 1942, he served as the secretary and librarian at the Rangoon branch of Ramakrishna Mission. In 1942, during the Second World War, when Japan bombed Burma (Myanmar today) and the centre had to be wound up, Swami Ranganathananda came back to Dhaka preferring the land route trekking along with thousands of other refugees, although more comfortable alternatives were available.

He then served as the president of the Karachi centre of Math from 1942 to 1948 until the partition of India, after which the mission found it difficult to continue its activities at Karachi. At Karachi, L.K. Advani came in contact with him and listened to his discourses on the Bhagavad Gita. Advani said that Ranganathananda was a "great influence" during his formative years. According to Advani, at Karachi, Mohammed Ali Jinnah had once listened to Swami Ranganathananda's lecture on Islam and Prophet Mohammed and remarked, "Now I know how a true Muslim should be."

From 1949 to 1962, he served as a secretary at the Delhi centre. Then from 1962 to 1967, he served as the Secretary of the Ramakrishna Mission Institute of Culture, Kolkata, director of School of Humanistic & Cultural studies, editor of mission's monthly. The swami became president of the Hyderabad branch in 1973, where he developed the Vivekananda Vani School of Languages, a temple, and a library. He was elected to the post of vice-president of Ramakrishna Math and Mission in 1988. In 1998 he was elected as the president of the mission.

Swami Ranganathananda was chosen by the Indian government for Padma Vibhushan award in 2000. He declined the Padma Vibhushan as it was conferred on him in his individual capacity and not for the Mission. He accepted the Indira Gandhi Award for National Integration in 1987 and the Gandhi Peace Prize in February 1999 as both were conferred on the Ramakrishna Mission.

Since his residence in Bangalore in the 1930s, Swami Ranganathananda has been a popular teacher and lecturer on Indian spiritual culture. By the mid-1950s he was known within India as an authority on practical Vedanta. Since the 1960s he made nearly annual lecture tours to Western Europe, the United States, Australia, and Singapore. He also lectured in Iran and in the Soviet Union. Ranganathananda is noted for this contributions that bridges science and Vedantic spirituality.

Swami Ranganathananda was regarded a great scholar and teacher. He has authored over 50 books. The Bharatiya Vidya Bhavan has published around twenty-nine of these books. His famous book includes Eternal Values for a Changing Society and commentaries on the messages of the Bhagavad Gita and Upanishads. He was known as a good orator. His weekly classes and public lectures were popular among the followers. Ganapathy, a correspondent of The Hindu writes that "In all his lectures, Swami Ranganathananda had stressed on the philosophy of eternal religion, a practical Vedanta, which teaches universal acceptance". He conducted moral and religious classes for the prisoners in the Bangalore and Mysore jails. In Delhi, Ranganathananda organised social services at hospitals and worked for the relief of leprosy patients. Indian prime minister, Manmohan Singh described Swamis Ranganathananda and Vivekananda as "leaders with a modern mind and scientific temper."

Swami Ranganathananda lived the last days of his life in the headquarters of the Ramakrishna Mission at Belur in West Bengal. He died at the Woodlands Medical Centre, Kolkata, at 3:51 p.m. on Monday, 25 April 2005, owing to cardiac arrest. He was 96. His body was kept for darshan at Belur Math (near Kolkata) on that day, then was cremated the next day. India Post released a postage stamp in the denomination of Rs 5 to commemorate the 100th birth anniversary of Swami Ranganathananda, during December 2008 at Kolkata.

His life and work has been documented in many biographies, including the one in Malayalam by D. Vijayamohan.

Quotations

 * "Are you growing spiritually? Can you love others? Can you feel oneness with others? Have you peace within yourself? and do you radiate it around you? That is called spiritual growth, which is stimulated by meditation inwardly, and by work done in a spirit of service outwardly."
 * "I am not alone in the world. . .We belong to a world. . .The vast world is around us. We cannot do without it. We cannot become human without a human world around us. How much we owe to the world of other human beings around us!"
 * "Efficiency and energy comes from emotion, not from intellectual knowledge, which can only direct that emotional energy. But the real impulse comes from emotion. It makes you work at your best."
 * "So, work hard; perform all duties; develop yourself; then come and surrender to the highest. Do a whole day's honest work, then sit and meditate; then resign yourself to God. Otherwise, that meditation has no meaning or value. Meditation at the end of a lazy day has no meaning; but the same at the end of an active day, filled with good deeds, has meaning, and is rewarding."
 * "How can we find joy in work? By working for oneself? No; it is not possible to find that continuous joy in work through selfish motivations. Frustration and ennui are the end of all selfish motivations. Frustrations and nervous breakdowns are the end of a self-centred life. The first advice of modern psychiatry to such people is to get out of this prison of self-centredness, and to find a genuine interest in other people. Everyone has to learn the lesson some day that, the best way to be happy is to strive to make others happy. So wherever you find frustration, you will always discover that the person concerned had been too self-centred, and the only hope for him is through learning to take interest in other people, to find joy in the joy of other people. This is the royal path that makes for health, for strength, for efficiency. This great truth—universal and human—we should apply to the world and to our life in it."
 * The great new mantra today is "Work" and 'Hard Work'; along with Hard Work, intelligent work co-operative teamwork. All great undertakings are product of teamwork. We can meet the challenge of freedom only when we have learnt this character-efficiency involved in teamwork, and intelligent hard work. This is the philosophy which we have to learn consciously, not unconsciously, somehow stumbling into it.
 * Work from ego point of view is all tension. But behind ego, there is an infinite spiritual dimension. When that is realised even a little, then extra work won't make one feel that it is heavy. Even ordinary experiences will tell you: Whenever there is love in the heart, the worker doesn't feel heavy. When there is no love in the heart, even a little work makes one feel very heavy. As soon as you have love for a particular cause, you can do anything; do hard work, but have a spirit of detachment based on a larger love.
 * Work is no work at all. It is a question of agency and attachment. When these two are not there, work ceases to be work, it becomes a play, it becomes spontaneous, and it becomes natural. When you become thoroughly detached, then all that tension goes away. You are working, but you don't feel that you are working. What a beautiful idea!"
 * Work is drudgery; Sri Krishna will not allow that attitude. There is joy in work also. Do not abandon work; go on doing work; but, mentally renouncing all actions. It is a wonderful state of mind-working, and yet not working.
 * Those who work, work with a zest and with joy and in work, learn calmness and the serenity of the human mind and heart; what a wonderful joy it is to work in such a way!
 * When science insists on studying things from the point of view of the objects themselves by eliminating the personal equation, it is in effect, emphasising the sakshi-bhava or sakshi point of view (witness attitude); for, the limited and circumscribed vision of the ego gives place to the unlimited and universal vision of the sakshi, by the practice of scientific or intellectual detachment.
 * The endeavours and conclusions of the sense-bound intellect can not be the last word in man’s search for truth. An intellectual approach to truth will end only in agnosticism; and often in cynicism. But the whole being of man seeks to experience truth, to realise it. … This rising above rationalism to direct experience and realisation, this growth of man from the sensate to the super-sensual dimension, is the special message of Indian spiritual tradition.
 * Mysticism, studied seriously, challenges basic tenets of Western Cultures: a) the primacy of reason and intellect; b) the separate, individual nature of man; c) the linear organisation of time. Great mystics, like our own great scientists, envision the world as being larger than those tenets, as transcending our traditional views.

title: Ranganathananda


text: Wikipedia:Special:AncientPages

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Wikipedia:Special:AncientPages


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Derzhavin

Derzhavin (Державин) is a Russian surname. Notable people with the surname include:

 * Gavrila Derzhavin (1743–1816), Russian poet and statesman
 * Konstantin Derzhavin (1903–1956), Russian writer and critic
 * Mikhail Derzhavin (1936–2018), Russian actor

title: Derzhavin


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Sauer

The Sauer (German and Luxembourgish,, ) or Sûre (French, ) is a river in Belgium, Luxembourg and Germany. A left tributary of the Moselle, its total length is 173 km.

Rising near Vaux-sur-Sûre in the Ardennes in southeastern Belgium, the Sauer flows eastwards and becomes the border with Luxembourg near Martelange. It forms the border between Belgium and Luxembourg for 13 km north of Martelange. West of Esch-sur-Sûre it flows into an artificial lake, the Upper Sûre Lake created by the Esch-sur-Sûre Dam, which gives its (French) name to the Luxembourgian commune of Lac de la Haute-Sûre. After flowing through Ettelbruck and Diekirch, the Sauer forms the border between Luxembourg and Germany for the last 50 km of its course, passing Echternach before emptying into the Moselle in Wasserbillig. The rivers Wiltz, Alzette, White Ernz, Black Ernz, Our, and Prüm are tributaries.

title: Sauer


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Bridgett Riley

Bridgett Riley (born May 13, 1973) is a female boxer and motion picture stuntwoman from Oakville, Missouri, where she graduated in 1989. While working as an airline attendant, she decided to learn martial arts. The interest in the sport came from her brother Patrick's strong interest in mixed martial arts. She trained with her brother and a number of other high-profile martial artists early in her career. Notably, she was trained by former three time world kickboxing champion, Jim Boucher (Belleville, Illinois). She was a member of a competition team with other competitors such as: Ronnie "Diamond" Deleon (World Kickboxing Champion), Patrick Riley (mixed martial arts champion), Donny Reinhardt (world champion), Russ Hogue (US Kickboxing Champion).

She held the IFBA's world Bantamweight championship for a short period of time. Her nickname is "Baby Doll" and she was managed by Don King for several years.

A lifelong fan of combat sports, Riley began to pave her way into relative women's boxing stardom during the early 1990s, when she fought as a kick boxer, winning various titles and becoming famous around kick boxing circles. Riley headlined many kick boxing shows in Las Vegas, and her fights were frequently televised on regional sports networks, such as ASPN.

When Riley announced that she was to begin a career in professional boxing, many of her fans received the news with open arms. Riley debuted as a professional boxer on April 8, 1994, when she beat future world champion Yvonne Trevino by a four round decision in Laughlin, Nevada.

Riley then took off two years from boxing, but she kept busy by fighting kick boxing fights. In 1996, the year which many consider the beginning of the "golden era" of women's boxing, Riley made her comeback to boxing.

On June 16, she beat Del Pettis in Long Beach. Riley suffered her first career loss on May 17, 1997, against Theresa Arnold, due to a cut sustained over her left eye in the sixth round.

Riley won her next two fights, and, on February 15, 1998, she and Trevino were rematched for Trevino's IFBA world Bantamweight championship, in Biloxi, Mississippi. Riley became a world champion by defeating Trevino by a ten round unanimous decision.

On June 26 of that year, she made what would be her only defense of the title, knocking out Aicha Lahsen in nine rounds at Las Vegas. Riley was knocked down by Lahsen in the first round and barely beat the count and made it through the end of the round. She recovered in later rounds and finished the fight with the knock out of Lahsen. This fight was chosen as women's boxing fight of the year for 1998.

She then won three more fights in a row, for a total of eight consecutive wins. However, none of these fights were for a world title. Among the women she defeated during that span were Brenda Burnside, by an eight round split decision at the Madison Square Garden in New York, New York, and Del Pettis, knocked out in the first round of their rematch, which also happened to be Riley's first bout of the 2000s.

On December 7, 2001, her winning streak was stopped when her bout with Yolanda Gonzalez, also held in California, was declared a technical draw (tie), because of a headbutt that caused an injury on Riley's head.

Riley then beat Linda Edwards and Karen Richardson, both by first round knockouts, before facing Para Draine, on November 14, 2002, in Portland, Oregon. Draine outpointed Riley over six rounds.

On January 18, 2003, Riley defeated Angie Bordelon by a six round decision in Raleigh, North Carolina. On June 4 of that year, she knocked out Nicole Gallegos in three rounds, in what has been, to date, her last professional boxing fight.

Riley has a record of 15 wins, 3 losses and 1 draw, with 7 wins by knockout.

Film career
During several of her layoffs, Riley has had several acting roles. She appeared in the mid 1990s television series WMAC Masters (broadcast on Fox). She appeared in the early 1990s martial arts inspired Triple Impact. She appeared as a boxer in Million Dollar Baby.

In addition to her own acting, she has performed as the stunt double for other actresses. She began her stunt work career as the double for the Yellow Ranger in early Mighty Morphin Power Rangers episodes and Mighty Morphin Power Rangers: The Movie. She doubled for Halle Berry in Catwoman, Malin Akerman in Watchmen, Summer Glau in Serenity, and others.

title: Bridgett Riley


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Ashanti Alston

Ashanti Omowali Alston (born 1954) is an anarchist activist, speaker, and writer, and former member of the Black Panther Party and Black Liberation Army. From 1974-1985 he spent time in prison for bank robbery which caused him to become further engaged in politics. He is currently on the Steering Committee of the Jericho Movement to free U.S. political prisoners. Alston resides in Providence, Rhode Island.

Early life
Alston grew up in the inner city of Plainfield, New Jersey, which he has described as being, at that time, "Niggertown with all the customs and traditions of racism, sexism and powerlessness". Alston was 11 years old during the assassination of Malcolm X and 13 years old during the 1967 Newark riots, events that both took place near his hometown of Plainfield. In a 2010 interview, Alston said that he did not remember Malcolm X's death in 1965, but he began to understand the significance of Malcolm's legacy as rebellions occurred throughout the United States in 1967. Alston described the impact of seeing his older brother's copy of Malcolm X's autobiography with the subtitle "former pimp, hustler, robber, who becomes leader of the Black Revolution", which demonstrated to him that "people that come from that kind of background can play a heroic role in the struggle." He also recalled how witnessing the 1967 Plainfield rebellion gave him "an image of black men and women in heroic roles in our community crashing all the myths about us being 'niggers', all that stuff."

Both Malcolm X's assassination and the Newark riots influenced Alston's decision to join the Black Panther Party at age 17, as he believed the Panthers were "taking Malcolm's teachings to the next level". At this time, Alston attended Nation of Islam meetings despite not being a member himself. He also felt a strong disdain for white people; however, upon joining the Panthers he changed his views.

Black Panther Party, Black Liberation Army, and prison
In 1971, in the face of the Panther 21 trial which saw several of his peers possibly facing the death penalty, Alston joined the Black Liberation Army, a spin-off group from the Panthers that advocated for and attempted armed struggle against the United States government. In 1974, he was arrested and imprisoned for 11 years for taking part in a robbery designed to raise funds for the BLA. Alston credits his time in prison with helping him to learn about political movements, economic theories, political organizations, religion, and guerrilla theories. During this time he became an anarchist, in contrast to the Marxism-Leninism and Maoism explored by the Black Panther Party. While imprisoned, Alston also became disillusioned with the BLA, particularly due to its endorsement of drugs, as he understood the intention of the BLA to be the liberation of Black communities from the tyranny and influence of drugs at the time.

Alston observed much sexism during his time in the Black Panther Party, despite the group's stated intention of gender equality, which he didn't fully realize until his stint in prison. However, he has acknowledged that some women still felt empowered by the Black Panther Party to fight sexism despite experiencing it within the party, recalling, "Sisters would tell you that because everybody had guns there were certain ways that they could tell a brother, 'you're not going to fuck with me, I'm not going to be your sexual object because I got a gun'."

Personal life
In 1984, Alston married fellow BPP and BLA member Safiya Bukhari. She died in 2003. Alston married Professor Viviane Saleh-Hanna in 2006. They have 2 children together.

title: Ashanti Alston


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Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Nettveteran

Nettveteran
Nettveteran was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was delete.

I found this article on pages needing translation, did a quick translation and decided that it's utterly non-notable. Foreign-language dicdef, no potential for expansion -- Ferkelparade π 09:43, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Yeah, it might be a word in whatever it was (German maybe? Just guessing from the page title) but over here, it's just two words stuck together, and means nothing more than the sum of its parts. "Net veteran" means just as much as "netveteran". Anyway, useless dictdef, delete. - Vague | Rant 10:24, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete lacks content, not expandable. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 10:47, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, obviously. -- Hoary 11:03, 2004 Dec 22 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not a suitable title in English, and no way of using the content that I can see. The fact that it might be useful content in another language raises some interesting issues, but here is probably not the place to explore them. Andrewa 14:22, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete for so many reasons. Wyss 21:55, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Nettshitte. Delete.  Edeans 00:56, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


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Talk:Criticism of Wikipedia

January 23, 2024 discussion about edit
@GreenMeansGoThe first edit(the edit between lines 33 and 40) I can see reverting, but the second edit( the edit after line 40) removes content for no reason. Shadow311 (talk) 19:10, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

 * "I reverted back in some stuff I don't agree with once I looked at it" isn't a great start to a conversation.  G M G  talk  19:35, 23 January 2024 (UTC)

Criticism in the Telegraph
[https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2023/08/28/wikipedia-donations-contributors-social-justice-charities/? Wikipedia should focus on content creation – not social justice campaigns] Michael G. Lind (talk) 12:15, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

Criticism in Journal of Spatial Information Science article
Reading some literature, I stumbled upon the paper "Trustworthy maps" in the peer reviewed Journal of Spatial Information Science. I'm looking into how it could be incorporated, but thought I'd share. Relevant text states:

 * "There are many maps of coronavirus case or death counts and/or rates. If one does a Google search on “coronavirus map”, the first result is a map from Wikipedia (Figure 1).The dataset underpinning this map also comes from Wikipedia, and is a mashup of source sof highly varied levels of authority and reliability.  Wikipedia, moreover, can be edited by anyone,  so  the  data  quality  can  vary  depending  on  who  has  contributed  the  edit,  their knowledge of reliable sources, and (sometimes) on their politics or other motivations.  In fact, when inspecting the edit history for the Wikipedia page whose information is fed into this map, it was not hard to find one such instance (Figure 2). Although any errors or edits made with political or mischievous motivations may be corrected quickly by other editors, anyone inspecting the map at a particular point in time may be looking at unreliable in-formation, meaning that the trustworthiness of the information as well as the information itself varies dynamically. If one accepts that Wikipedia’s data may not be sufficiently trustworthy, where can one find more authoritative, if slightly less timely, data?  Figure 3 is a map published by the World Health Organization (WHO). Although it may also suffer from data quality issues such as different data reporting practices in different countries, it only includes cases that meet the WHO case definition, a data quality standard set by the WHO."

GeogSage ( ⚔Chat?⚔ ) 20:16, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Musk's opinion (and the "Wokipedia" epithet in general)
Regarding your removal of the following text and supporting source:

"Elon Musk has referred to the platform as "Wokipedia", asserting that its neutrality has been compromised by "wokeness"."

Over the past several days, Musk has been on a Twitter rant about Wikipedia, with some of these tweets being viewed millions or tens of millions of times, and receiving tens of thousands of replies. This is itself a recapitulation of Musk's earlier expression of this opinion, which is documented in reliable sources (I picked the most convenient one). Our inclusion of content is based on the reporting of that content in reliable sources, not any one editor's questioning of whether the sourced content is "of significance". The sources decide that for us, and we don't censor them because the matter reported is attributed to an eccentric figure. BD2412 T 03:19, 19 April 2024 (UTC)  BD2412  T 03:19, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

 * Perhaps the content about Musk needs to include some of the justification you have written above. As it stood, there was no reason given for why anyone should care more about what Musk thinks than what anyone else thinks. Musk is an expert on some things, but not on creating encyclopaedias, so we we need to say why his opinion matters. (If it really does.) HiLo48 (talk) 03:26, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The justification is that it is important enough to be covered in sources, and that it reflects a current more broadly expressed criticism of Wikipedia characterizing it as "woke". BD2412  T 03:44, 19 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Don't tell me. Tell the readers. By that, I mean that we need to say in the article why Musk's opinion matters.
 * Perhaps we could say something along the lines of:  BD2412  T 19:09, 20 April 2024 (UTC)

 * No. That still doesn't explain why Musk's opinion is of any more significance than anyone else's. HiLo48 (talk) 23:26, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Is there justification in the article itself for why any of the specific opinions expressed are important enough to be included? Every criticism of Wikipedia is a criticism by someone. BD2412  T 23:33, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I haven't looked in depth. I am opposed to criticism articles and criticism sections in articles in general for that and other reasons. If someone criticises something, it often says more about the person doing the criticising than whatever it is they are criticising. This about Musk's criticism. I will keep asking why it matters. HiLo48 (talk) 00:12, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Suppose, then, that we take Musk out of the equation. Should the criticism of Wikipedia as "woke" be included in the article? BD2412  T 18:27, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * "Woke" is one of those silly, ineffectual insults. The people its aimed at see the attributes that make up being woke as positive things. It's like "leftie". HiLo48 (talk) 23:43, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Our article on the subject suggests some specifications for the meaning of the insult. I'm not sure what "ineffectual" means in this context, but the proposition seems to be that Wikipedia engages in performative posturing that overcompensates for a perception of bias derived from the characteristics of its editing base. BD2412  T 23:55, 21 April 2024 (UTC)
 * By "ineffectual", I mean that it generally has no negative impact on whoever it's aimed at. HiLo48 (talk) 00:52, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * You're inferring meaning to someone's one-word derision to make it sound more like real criticism. — Rhododendrites  talk \\ 00:29, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Not really, he pretty much says it here. Specifically, he quoted a tweet about Wikipedia abandoning a 'free and open' internet so as not to recapitulate a 'white male Westernized construct', and said that this was "literally the point of Wikipedia". The criticism at issue goes beyond just using the word "woke", and although Musk is the architect of this stream of it, there is plenty of follow-up to his tweets, including by fairly prominent public figures, to the effect that Wikipedia suppresses facts that counter the asserted ideological narrative. BD2412  T 00:43, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Are the really facts? HiLo48 (talk) 00:55, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Does it matter, for the purposes of criticism existing as criticism? We have substantial content in the article right now about accusations of Wikipedia being both liberally and conservatively biased, including criticism from the likes of Fox News that Wikipedia has political and ideological biases. We also have coverage of assertions of Wikipedia being biased against minorities. The assertion being made by Musk and echoed by his followers is that Wikipedia has tried to go too far in the opposite direction and become biased against the majority group. BD2412  T 01:01, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Misunderstandings and insults do not count as "criticism". They do count as "opposition". Wikipedia definitely suppresses "alternative facts" (also called lies), making it less "free and open" and more reliable than the internet at large. --Hob Gadling (talk) 11:00, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Would you say, then, that the place for such content would be an Opposition to Wikipedia article? There seem to be sources sufficient to support having such a thing. BD2412  T 16:24, 22 April 2024 (UTC)
 * No need to ping me, I have a watchlist. And even if I did not, there is no reason to assume that I would know the answer any better than anybody else. But if you want such an article, I have no probably with you writing it. --Hob Gadling (talk) 05:56, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

 * [not hilo48 but] IMO we need more criticism than just calling it "woke" to include in the criticism of Wikipedia article. Just saying it's "woke" is both lacking any kind of depth or evidence and a term applied to basically anything conservatives don't like about the left (or history, or race, or gender, or science). By the original definition, the fact that we have articles on slavery, redlining, and don't say the American Civil War is "just about states' rights", we are by definition woke (but that sense of the word was never used as "criticism"). Aside: I was about to give an example and accidentally chose one that was about the WMF, which made me realize we surprisingly don't have something like criticism of the Wikimedia Foundation. Not sure it's notable, but my example didn't actually concern Wikipedia so omitting it for now. In general, we need more then a one-word political diss. — Rhododendrites  talk \\ 19:33, 21 April 2024 (UTC)

 * Is Musk aware of Wookiepedia or is that part of the joke unintentional? Horse Eye's Back (talk) 20:42, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Is Musk calling Wikipedia "wokipedia" "criticism"? Is that the scope of this article? If another celebrity said "Wikipedia sux" and was retweeted enough for a media source to cover it, is that "criticism" worth including? If we had a trolling of Wikipedia article, then it would certainly fit. — Rhododendrites  talk \\ 20:53, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I see no indication anywhere that Musk is aware of, or referencing Wookiepedia. Musk's trolling is encapsulated with quotes by Musk of other figures asserting that Wikipedia is "woke" and seeks to perpetuate anti-majoritarian politics. If that isn't a criticism, what is it?  BD2412  T 21:06, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I'm looking at the proposed text: Elon Musk has referred to the platform as "Wokipedia", asserting that its neutrality has been compromised by "wokeness". Yes, we include specific criticisms by other people, but what does Musk's "wokipedia" add? I'm not saying it should be omitted; I'm asking if basic trolling like that is the kind of "criticism" this article seeks to summarize in an encyclopedic way. —  Rhododendrites  talk \\ 21:24, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I suggest to leave out this sort of trolling altogether. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of stupid tweets – we have better things to do, I hope, than summarising everything celebrities do to keep being talked about. — kashmīrī  TALK  21:47, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 * If Musk has specific complaints and *tweets about them and reliable sources cover his statements, it would then be worth discussing if his comments belong in the article. Random shit like "he called it Wokepedia" does not belong. He's a guy. His opinion by itself is worth no more than anyone else's. --Onorem (talk) 23:52, 20 April 2024 (UTC)
 * This article should cover substantive criticism. Not the random musings of a wealthy monopolist who dominates the 21st century megaphone market, and uses his "X" powers to spout banal and uninformed things to his vast audience. Cullen328 (talk) 06:34, 23 April 2024 (UTC)

Second volume of something
Why exactly is the paragraph However, while the second volume of the report issued by the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee in this article? It essentially says "some people said that someone else did not influence Wikipedia, and some people with a very, very, very long description said that someone influenced something which is not Wikipedia." --Hob Gadling (talk) 09:13, 19 April 2024 (UTC)

 * It essentially says "some people said that someone else did not influence Wikipedia, and some people with a very, very, very long description said that someone influenced something which is not Wikipedia. Nope. Here's what the content said in reference to Wikipedia:
 * "However, while the second volume of the report issued by the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee on Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election cites a 2016 study published by the NATO Strategic Communications Center of Excellence that found that entities supported by the Russian government have employed paid online trolls to post misleading information on Wikipedia in the context of the Russia-Ukraine conflict, the report did not identify Wikipedia as one of the Web 2.0 services used by the Russian government to influence voters in the 2016 U.S. presidential election."
 * What it says is that A (the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee) cited research by B (the NATO Strategic Communications Center of Excellence) that has found that Wikipedia has been subject to internet manipulation by C (the Russian government) for a specific purpose (for the Russia-Ukraine conflict), but that A however did not identify Wikipedia as a Web 2.0 service that been manipulated by C for a different purpose (interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election). I included the content because it is an example and a non-example of Wikipedia being subject to internet manipulation, although perhaps it would have been better to include the content in the "Commandeering or sanitizing articles" secondary subsection rather than the "Exposure to political operatives and advocates" secondary subsection. -- CommonKnowledgeCreator (talk) 02:39, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I waded through the paragraph back then without finding any such manipulation of Wikipedia. I only found non-manipulation of Wikipedia and manipulation of something else, as I said. If you reinsert it, could you please cut that part away to leave only the manipulation-of-Wikipedia part? --Hob Gadling (talk) 07:10, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Here's what the full text said:
 * "However, while the second volume of the report issued by the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee on Russian interference in the 2016 U.S. presidential election cites a 2016 study published by the NATO Strategic Communications Center of Excellence that found that entities supported by the Russian government have employed paid online trolls to post misleading information on Wikipedia in the context of the Russia-Ukraine conflict, the report did not identify Wikipedia as one of the Web 2.0 services used by the Russian government to influence voters in the 2016 U.S. presidential election. Instead, like the first volume of the report issued by the Special Counsel investigation into the interference, the joint press statement issued by the U.S. Department of Homeland Security and the Office of the Director of National Intelligence in October 2016, and the declassified assessment released in January 2017 by the U.S. Intelligence Community, the second and fifth volumes of the Senate Intelligence Committee report released in October 2019 and August 2020 respectively concluded that the Russian interference occurred primarily by hacking-and-dumping operations targeting the internal communications of the Democratic National Committee, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, and Clinton campaign officials (specifically John Podesta) and active measures social media campaigns primarily on Facebook and Twitter to influence the electorate to vote for Donald Trump over Hillary Clinton in the general election."
 * I'd recommend keeping all of the first sentence; I've encountered people in life who believe that Wikipedia was used by the Russian government for the purpose that the report U.S. Senate Intelligence did not identify it as being used for and generally believe it to be a source of false information and fake news. The second sentence can be moved to a footnote for a curious reader's interest. -- CommonKnowledgeCreator (talk) 12:18, 24 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Is what I've proposed acceptable? -- CommonKnowledgeCreator (talk) 02:57, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I still do not think it is relevant, but I am not the boss here and others should chime in.
 * The reason I do not think it is relevant is that it is not criticism of Wikipedia. The core, which I had overlooked the first time because of all the other stuff around it, is "trolls post misleading information". But trolls are not Wikipedia. If they succeeded and the misleading information was there for a long time, pointing that out would be criticism of Wikipedia. --Hob Gadling (talk) 07:18, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * The reason I do not think it is relevant is that it is not criticism of Wikipedia. ... But trolls are not Wikipedia. Do you think the rest of the content in the "Exposure to political operatives and advocates" and "Commandeering or sanitizing articles" secondary subsections is irrelevant? If so, how is the content that I added different in substance from the rest of the content already included there? Both sections discuss Wikipedia being subject to manipulation by state and non-state actors to further their political interests rather than the project's purpose of creating an encyclopedia. -- CommonKnowledgeCreator (talk) 12:24, 25 April 2024 (UTC)
 * Those parts list clear examples of articles that have been under attack, they are not as vague as the part I removed. But yes, I think they are not criticism of Wikipedia. But you are right that this is where the text in question belongs if it is added.
 * I wish other people would enter this conversation. --Hob Gadling (talk) 06:42, 26 April 2024 (UTC)
 * I wish other people would enter this conversation. This is why I wish there was a committee of editors where individual members regularly respond to third opinion requests and resolve disagreements en banc as a panel upon request for an appeal, but other editors here seem not to agree with me that such a committee is needed. -- CommonKnowledgeCreator (talk) 12:16, 26 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Criticism of Wikipedia


text:
Norwegian Polar Institute

The Norwegian Polar Institute (NPI; Norsk Polarinstitutt) is Norway's central governmental institution for scientific research, mapping and environmental monitoring in the Arctic and the Antarctic. The NPI is a directorate under Norway's Ministry of Climate and Environment. The institute advises Norwegian authorities on matters concerning polar environmental management and is the official environmental management body for Norwegian activities in Antarctica.

Activities
The institute's activities are focused on environmental research and management in the polar regions. The NPI's researchers investigate biodiversity, climate and environmental toxins in the Arctic and Antarctic, and in this context the institute equips and organizes large-scale expeditions to both polar regions. The institute contributes to national and international climate work, and is an active contact point for the international scientific community. The institute collects and analyses data on the environment and cultural heritage sites on the islands of Svalbard and Jan Mayen through the project Environmental Monitoring of Svalbard and Jan Mayen (MOSJ). Topographic mapping is also an important task: the NPI is the national surveying and mapping authority for Norway's polar areas, including non-commercial geological surveys.

In Antarctica, the institute is responsible for the management of all Norwegian activities. This means that all Norwegian subjects planning activities in Antarctica must first contact the NPI.

The NPI maintains a database of reported sightings of whales, walruses, seals, and polar bears in the Svalbard area to which the public is encouraged to contribute. The reported sightings are used in research and monitoring.

The NPI is the official agency responsible for place names in the Norwegian polar regions. These areas include Svalbard and Jan Mayen and their adjacent waters, Queen Maud Land, Bouvet Island, and Peter I Island. Place names are officially adopted by the responsible committee at the NPI, which maintains a database of place names that is publicly searchable.

History
The NPI was established in 1948 under the Norwegian Ministry of Industry, but must be seen as an extension of Norwegian Svalbard and Arctic Ocean Survey, Norges Svalbard og Ishavsundersøkelser (NSIU), which was founded on 1 March 1928. Previously, Norway's Svalbard research had been organized as the Norwegian state-supported Spitsbergen Expeditions, with roots dating back to 1906. With the establishment of the NSIU, Norwegian research activity in eastern Greenland increased.

With Harald Sverdrup as the first director, the NPI's mandate included Antarctica and was considerably broader than that of its forerunner, the NSIU. From 1949 to 1952, the NPI led the multinational Maudheim Expedition to Antarctica and had a base in Queen Maud Land from 1956 to 1960 (Norway Station), during the International Geophysical Year, also known as the third International Polar Year. The NPI established the permanent research station Troll in Antarctica in 1989–90; Troll has been operated as a year-round research station since 2005. The NPI carried out annual summer expeditions to Svalbard and, starting in 1968, has had a year-round research station in Ny-Ålesund. In 1979, the NPI became was a directorate under the Ministry of the Environment (currently the Ministry of Climate and Environment).

In 1993, the decision was made in the Norwegian Parliament to move the headquarters of the NPI from Oslo, Norway's capital, to Tromsø, a coastal city north of the Arctic Circle. The process was completed in 1998. This relocation led to changes in the institute's profile and areas of interest as departments were reorganized, new personnel recruited, new positions established and research priorities shifted.

Research platforms
The NPI runs the Sverdrup Station and the Zeppelin Observatory in Svalbard, the Troll and Tor research stations in Antarctica, and Norvegia Station on Bouvet Island.

The NPI owns the research vessel RV Kronprins Haakon, with the University of Tromsø and the Norwegian Institute of Marine Research being the other users of the vessel.

Archives
The NPI has built up a sizeable polar history collection in the form of photographs, books, journals and other archival materials.

The Library contains unique collections of polar history literature, including more than 15,000 books as well as diaries, ship registers and logbooks, newspaper cuttings and special collections, for example, a special collection pertaining to Umberto Nobile.

The Photo Library contains pictures from polar expeditions, mapping in Svalbard, Greenland and Antarctica, research (including geology, glaciology, biology and oceanography) and commercial activities such as mining in Svalbard, seal hunting in the White Sea, whaling in the Southern Ocean and trapping in Greenland and Svalbard. The collection consists of about 90,000 photographs, including some 60,000 historical photographs. The rest are modern images documenting research activity in Svalbard and Antarctica and adjacent marine areas. A large part of the collection is accessible to the public via the NPI's online image archive.

title: Norwegian Polar Institute


text:
Chicano English

Chicano English, or Mexican-American English, is a dialect of American English spoken primarily by Mexican Americans (sometimes known as Chicanos), particularly in the Southwestern United States ranging from Texas to California, as well as in Chicago. Chicano English is sometimes mistakenly conflated with Spanglish, which is a mixing of Spanish and English; however, Chicano English is a fully formed and native dialect of English, not a "learner English" or interlanguage. It is even the native dialect of some speakers who know little to no Spanish, or have no Mexican heritage.

Naming issues
Many people who speak Chicano English do not themselves identify with the term "Chicano." For example, none of 's eight Hispanic participants identified with the term. Despite this, Chicano English remains the most widely used and recognized term for this language variety. Some studies on Chicano English have used terms such as "Mexican-American English", "Latino English", and "Mexican Heritage English".

History
Communities of Spanish-speaking Tejanos, Nuevomexicanos, Californios, and Mission Indians have existed in the American Southwest since the area was part of New Spain's Provincias Internas. Most of the historically Hispanophone populations eventually adopted English as their first language, as part of their overall Americanization.

A high level of Mexican immigration began in the 20th century, with the exodus of refugees from the Mexican Revolution (1910) and the linkage of Mexican railroads to the US (Santa Ana, 1991). The Hispanic population is one of the largest and fastest-growing ethnic groups in the United States. In the Los Angeles metropolitan area alone, they form 45% of the population (roughly 6 million out of 13.3 million in 2014). The result of the migration and the segregated social conditions of the immigrants in California made an ethnic community that is only partly assimilated to the matrix Anglo (European American) community. It retains symbolic links with Hispanic culture (as well as real links from continuing immigration), but linguistically, it is mostly an English-speaking, not a Spanish-speaking, community. However, its members have a distinctive accent.

The phonological inventory of Chicano English speakers appears to be identical to that of the local Anglo community. For example, long and short vowels are clearly distinguished, as is the English vowel. Speculatively, it seems that the main differences between the Chicano accent and the local Anglo accent are that the Chicanos are not always participating in ongoing phonetic changes in Anglo communities, such as the raising of that characterizes Anglo Inland Northern speakers but not necessarily Hispanic ones.

Because Spanish-speaking people migrated from other parts of the Hispanophone world to the Southwest, Chicano English is now the customary dialect of many Hispanic Americans of diverse national heritages in the Southwest. As Hispanics are of diverse racial origins, Chicano English serves as the distinction from non-Hispanic and non-Latino Americans in the Southwest.

A common stereotype about Chicano English speakers, similar to stereotypes about other racial/ethnic minorities in the United States, is that Chicano English speakers are not proficient in English and are generally uneducated. This language ideology is linked to negative perceptions about Chicano Americans and Hispanics in general. Some of these stereotypes can be seen in popular films that depict the Chicano lifestyles and dialects. Most of these films take place in Southern California. Some of the more popular films where this can be noted are Mi Familia, American Me and Blood In Blood Out. These films depict speakers of the Southern California Chicano dialect and also some of the stereotypes that are associated with Chicanos.

Prosody
The rhythm of Chicano English tends to have an intermediate prosody between a Spanish-like syllable timing, with syllables taking up roughly the same amount of time with roughly the same amount of stress, and General American English's stress timing, with only stressed syllables being evenly timed.

Chicano English also has a complex set of nonstandard English intonation patterns, such as pitch rises on significant words in the middle and at the end of sentences as well as initial-sentence high pitches, which are often accompanied by the lengthening of the affected syllables. When needing extra emphasis to certain words, there is the use of rising glides. Rising glides can be used multiple times in one sentence. On compound nouns and verbs, major stress is on the second word. Rising glides can occur at any time and at either monosyllabic or polysyllabic words.

Consonants
Certain Chicano English consonant pronunciations are similar to African-American Vernacular English. Certain consonants show Spanish-language influence:
 * Chicano English often exhibits th-stopping. That is, /ð/ sounds may be replaced with /d/ sounds, as in "dese" and "dem" instead of "these" and "them".
 * t/d deletion occurs at the end of a word when those consonants are part of a consonant cluster. For example, "missed" becomes "miss".
 * can undergo devoicing in all environments: for easy and  for was.
 * Chicano speakers may realize bilabially, as a stop  or a fricative/approximant, with very being pronounced  or.
 * is never velarized and so it is pronounced similarly to Spanish, which also lacks velarization, in all positions.

Vowels
Mexican-Americans show variable participation in local sound shifts, like the Northern Cities Shift of the Great Lakes or the California Shift in the American West.

Reduction of unstressed vowels is less common in Chicano English than in Anglo varieties.

While a lack of pre-nasal /æ/ raising is often characteristic of Chicano English, in El Paso, /æ/ raising is found among both Anglos and Hispanics.

The cot–caught merger is complete, approximately to. For younger speakers, however, the vowel is retracted to by the Californian Vowel Shift.

The salary–celery merger occurs, with and  merging before. This is found in Los Angeles, northern New Mexico and Albuquerque, and in El Paso.

is pronounced as, making showing sound like show-een. This feature has since spread to other varieties of California English.

The distinction between and  before liquid consonants is often reduced in some Chicano accents, making fill and feel homophones. That is also a feature of general California English.

is slightly fronted, as in most American and many British dialects, but less fronted than in mainstream California English.

Some realizations of, , , and other long vowels are monophthongal. That may be an effect of Spanish, but other American English dialects (Minnesota, for example) also can show monophthongization of such vowels, which are more commonly diphthongs in English. Also, such vowels are underlyingly long monophthongs so the general effect thus is to simplify the system of phonetic implementation, compared to the of many other English dialects.

Variation
A fair to strong degree of variation exists in the phonology of Chicano English. Its precise boundaries are difficult to delineate, perhaps because of its separate origins of the dialect in the Southwest and the Midwest.

One subvariety, referenced as Tejano English, is used mainly in southern Texas. California subvarieties are also widely studied, especially that of the Los Angeles metropolitan area, such as East Los Angeles Chicano English, which includes elements of African American Vernacular English and California English.

New Mexico
One type of Hispanic English, a sub-type under Chicano English of the American West, is specific to north-central New Mexico. A recent study found that native English–Spanish bilinguals in New Mexico have a lower/shorter/weaker voice-onset time than that typical of native monolingual English speakers. Northern New Mexico Hispanic English, transcending age, ethnicity, or socioeconomic status, has been reported as having its own vowel shift as follows: is  before a final  (so feel merges to the sound of fill),  is  before any consonant (so suit merges to the sound of soot),  is  before a final  (so shell merges to the sound of shall), and  is  before any consonant (so cup merges to the sound of something like cop). That said, a later study examining the speech of college students in Albuquerque failed to find evidence of being laxed to  or of  becoming lowered to.

East Los Angeles
This form of Chicano English is predominantly spoken in East Los Angeles and has been influenced by the California English of coastal European-Americans and African-American Vernacular English.

Notable native speakers

 * Gloria Anzaldúa — "I spoke English like a Mexican. At Pan American University, I and all Chicano students were required to take two speech classes. Their purpose: to get rid of our accents."
 * César Chávez — "His speech was soft, sweetened by a Spanish accent"
 * George Lopez — "Chicanos are their own breed. Even though we're born in the United States, we still have accents."
 * Cheech Marin — "a hint of a Chicano accent" — "a Spanish accent or stereotypical East Los Angeles cadence like Cheech Marin"
 * Selena — “Her speech, now, shows some influence from Spanish”

title: Chicano English


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Knowledge wars/old

Knowledge wars
Knowledge wars was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was keep. Original article (probable neologism) created by 162.83.191.24 was a copyvio, so I tweaked it around a little bit. 162.83.191.24 reverted back to copyvio and I tweaked it again. Zero0000 made a good argument for putting this article up for VfD due to its lack of notability. So, here we are. --Viriditas | Talk 09:54, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * delete - this is an article about a non-notable usage of a non-notable phrase. --Zero 10:26, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep or rename: I'm not convinced this is the best title, but the unusual polarity of the academic discourse is worth discussing. —Ashley Y 13:40, 2004 Dec 22 (UTC)
 * Comment: Copyright violations are not supposed to be permitted to exist even in the history.  The original article is now tagged as a copyvio.  Viriditas's non-copyvio draft has been moved to Knowledge wars/Temp (where it is still tagged as a VfD nomination).  Rossami (talk)
 * I have only found one source for the use of the phrase "knowledge wars" in this context. The "rules for dealing with knowledge wars" were published a week ago (14 Dec 2004) at [].  As far as I can tell, that's the only place.  Unless further evidence can be presented that this topic is actively discussed, I must vote to delete.  No matter how good the idea is, we are not in the business of advertising or proselytizing.  Rossami (talk) 21:52, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, destined to degenerate into a PoV rant war about campus politics. Wyss 21:53, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, has potential. Megan1967 23:55, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, nn. Edeans 01:04, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, interesting, plenty of potential Dan100 11:48, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Talk:Lion (Australasian company)

2004-2007
A lot of the Victorian stuff is covered under Melbourne Beer War, and can probably be deleted. Could be useful adding some information about the companies and beers

3mta3 09:58, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)

My understanding is that Tooheys New on tap was always Tooheys New, and it was only the can and bottle form that was changed from Tooheys Draught to Tooheys New.

Just removed a massive amount of blantant advertising, nearly made me sick. Please stay away Lion Nathan PR Reps.

ElZilcho

Looks all right to me now... maybe we can remove the advertising warning 203.129.45.248 08:24, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Brewing vs Distribution
Just removed incorrect information regarding international brands - Heineken, Amstel and Tiger are all DB products - refer http://www.db.co.nz/home/brands.html

While in New Zealand Heneken is a DB brand, in Australia it is a Lion beer. 202.27.252.25 (talk) 23:40, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

The two comments directly above are true. The whole section within the article is deceptively confusing though. The fact that the international brands list is under the New Zealand brands list (even though it is a separate heading) leads the reader to believe that these are international brands being sold in New Zealand by Lion Nathan. Maybe this section could be expanded upon to explain that Amstel, Heineken, and Tiger are brewed under licence in Australia, but are imported and distributed from elsewhere by DB breweries in New Zealand. This may require information about where DB sources these beers from. Not sure where this might be found - On the outside of the bottles maybe? Time to do some research! ;-) --Iam0g (talk) 13:51, 16 August 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Mac's shield.gif
Image:Mac's shield.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use.

BetacommandBot (talk) 07:05, 1 January 2008 (UTC)

Lion Nathan Wines and Wineries
All the winery web site links in the wines section are just blatant advertising. They should be created as separate pages which then have a link to the winery's web site, or at least put under 'external links'. See External_links. The 'international brands' section is a good example of how it should be.

 * "All the winery web site links in the wines section are just blatant advertising." - No, they are not JUST blantant advertising; they are the wineries' "Official Web Sites". Yes, they do contain "advertising". So what? Please show me a web site for a product that doesn't contain some advertising.
 * "They should be created as separate pages which then have a link to the winery's web site," - Yes, I agree, they "should". (What a wonderful word "should" is!) There's just one teensy-weensy problem. They haven't been created yet. (Are you going to do it?)
 * "or at least put under 'external links'." - OK. I've done that.
 * "See External_links." - Been there. Done that.
 * "The 'international brands' section is a good example of how it should be." - Indubitably. But as I've already mentioned, "There's just one teensy-weensy problem ... "
 * Have you got anything to add that's actually useful, helpful, or productive? Or are you just here to whinge about how the world is not perfect? Pdfpdf (talk) 09:01, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Clearly my 'whinging' is useful as you agree and have fixed it up. Stop whinging about it and get on with it. Garnercx (talk) 01:30, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
 * No, I don't agree. I just did it to remove any grounds you had for whinging.
 * "Stop whinging about it and get on with it." - Huh? Is that an attempt at humour? If so, ;-) Pdfpdf (talk) 14:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

 * Oh, by-the-way, please sign your postings with 4~. Pdfpdf (talk) 09:01, 8 May 2009 (UTC)

Sorry, missed that one. Garnercx (talk) 01:30, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I'm unclear as to which wineries they currently own. There have been news stories about them selling their "premium wine" business to Accolade Wines last month. Has Lion failed to update its website - which still lists many of the wines mentioned in the article - or is the transfer yet to take effect? -- Meticulo (talk) 09:51, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

James Squire merge
What's the deal with this merge? The information on this page is much shorter than was at James Squire. Any reason not to list the full range of beers? This is exactly the kind of information an encyclopaedia should list; it's not spam, if that's what you're thinking. Stevage 00:04, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Edit by IP, 19 Aug 2009
19 August 2009 210.8.218.110 (talk) (16,525 bytes) (Lion Nathan is not Japanese-controlled. While Kirin is a major shareholder, the company is publicly listed as at 18/8/09. The company has a wide range of assets, no longer makes Tooheys Maxim or Tiger) (undo) (Tag: references removed)

Adressing your edit comment: Addressing your edits: Pdfpdf (talk) 15:32, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "While Kirin is a major shareholder, the company is publicly listed as at 18/8/09." - True. However, as Kirin owns 40-something percent, and no other shareholder owns anything even vaguely close to that proportion, by Australian accounting standards and Australian company law, this means Lion Nathan IS "Japanese controlled". If you want more information, read Adelaide Steamship Company and the supporting references quoted there.
 * There was a reliable supporting reference there. You removed it, and replaced it with your claim, and did NOT supply ANY supporting references for your point-of-view. Not a good idea.
 * gtg - will finish this later. Pdfpdf (talk) 10:33, 19 August 2009 (UTC)
 * "The company has a wide range of assets" - Yes. Why do you mention that?
 * "no longer makes Tooheys Maxim" - A supporting reference would be nice.
 * "(no longer makes) Tiger" - It never did make Tiger, and the article doesn't say that it did/does. However, Lion Nathan is still the distributor of Tiger, both in Australia and New Zealand.
 * "The company owns ten breweries, 9 wineries, 1 distillery, 44 liquor outlets and one contract bottling plant" - this may well be true, but the section is headed "Breweries", not "Assets", or something related, or of a general nature.
 * "The company owns ten breweries, 9 wineries ... "'' - I think the company owns more than that. See below for breweries, and the article mentions 18 wineries manufacturing 13 brands.

How many breweries, what are they called, where are they, and what do they brew?
I identified the following, (then I found List of breweries in Australia.)

If you can, please verify, correct and/or expand this following list.
 * 1. Castlemaine Perkins (Brisbane) - XXXX
 * 2. Swan (Canning Vale, Perth) (WA, not Scotland) - Swan; Emu
 * 3. Southwark (Adelaide) - West End; Southwark
 * 4. Malt Shovel (Camperdown, Sydney) - James Squire; New Norcia Abbey Ale [Same place as Hahn??]
 * 5. Boags (Launceston, Tasmania) - Boags
 * 6. McCashins (Nelson, Sth Is) - McCashins
 * 7. Waitemata (Otahuhu, Auckland?) - Heinekin
 * 8. Tui (Mangatainoka ?) - Tui
 * 9. Monteith's (Greymouth, Sth Is) - Monteith's
 * 10. Mainland (Timaru, Sth Is)
 * 11. Speights (Dunedin, Sth Is) - Speights
 * 12. Newmarket (Auckland) - Lion Red
 * 13. Hahn (Camperdown, Sydney) - Hahn
 * 14. Tooheys (Lidcombe, Sydney) - Tooheys
 * 15. Knappstein Enterprise Brewery (Clare SA) - Knappstein

Where are the following brewed?
 * Gulf Lager
 * Becks ("Brewed here in Australia" - http://www.becksbeer.com.au/ "Bier Facts")
 * Steinlager

http://www.beermaster.co.nz/Links.aspx mentions:
 * http://www.lion-nathan.co.nz
 * http://www.speights.co.nz
 * http://www.guinnessnz.co.nz
 * http://www.macs.co.nz
 * http://www.lionred.co.nz
 * http://www.steinlager.com
 * http://www.stellaartois.com

Pdfpdf (talk) 17:08, 19 August 2009 (UTC)

Japanese take-over
Now that Lion-Nathan has been 100% taken over by the Japanese firm Kirin, should the lede be changed from "Japanese controlled" to "Japanese owned"?- Lester  11:17, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

 * Well, the takeover hasn't actually happened yet: "The takeover will be implemented on October 21, pending court approval." (Lion Nathan shareholders approve takeover, TVNZ, 17 September 2009.)
 * However, the article could be modified to mention this. The National Foods article may also need to be modified.
 * Other reports:
 * Lion Nathan shareholders approve Kirin takeover, The Australian, 17 September 2009
 * Lion Nathan shareholders approve $3 bln takeover by Kirin, Forbes.com, 17 September 2009
 * Shareholders bid sayonara to Lion Nathan, Sydney Morning Herald, 17 September 2009
 * Cheers, Pdfpdf (talk) 13:50, 17 September 2009 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 14 August 2014
I am Lion’s External Relations Director and would like to advise of some amendments required to your description of Lion, as per the below:

1)	Lion is owned by Kirin, which is listed on the Tokyo Stock Exchange. Kirin is not owned by Mitsubishi. Therefore Lion is not owned by Mitsubishi. Mitsubishi has a very small shareholding in Kirin (I believe only 1-2%) only. 2)	Your initial description of Lion suggests we are only an alcohol company. This is false. Lion is a beverage and food company that operates in Australia and New Zealand and produces and markets a range of beer, wine, cider, RTDs, spirits, plain and flavoured milks, yogurts, cheese, juice and soy products. 3)	Your employee numbers are also inaccurate and should be ‘The Company employs over 7,000 people’ 4)	The Industry we operate in should be food and beverage / alcohol, not just alcohol 5)	Under ‘founded’ there should be a reference that we became Lion in 2011 6)	The products section should be amended to include all our product categories: beer, wine, cider, RTDs, spirits, plain and flavoured milks, yogurts, cheese, juice and soy products. 7)	Owner should be Kirin Holdings 8)	The history section is incomplete, and doesn’t reference the subsequent merger of Lion Nathan and National Foods in 2009 as ‘Lion Nathan National Foods’ and the renaming to ‘Lion’ in 2011, as mentioned earlier on the page 9)	The next section on Lion Nathan National Foods is no longer accurate – the name no longer exists. The head office information in there is also confused – our Corporate and Lion Beer, Spirits & Wine Australia head office is York St Sydney, our Lion Dairy & Drinks business is headquartered out of Melbourne and our Lion Beer, Spirits & Wine New Zealand business is headquartered out of Auckland. We have an additional office at Sydney Olympic Park. 10)	The Lion Nathan National Foods Ltd profile box should be deleted as it is superseded by the Lion one. 11)	Breweries – our Swan brewery has closed. Our SA Brewery is called ‘West End Brewery’ not Southwark. You have Little Creatures listed as a brewery in Sydney, when it is based in WA (which you have in brackets). We have another Little Creatures Brewery in Geelong. There is no Hahn Brewery in Camperdown, you have this confused with the Malt Shovel Brewery in Camperdown, which is accurate. We also have the Emerson’s Brewery in Dunedin New Zealand. 12)	There are extensive issues with the beer and wine sections where you list a lot of products no longer produced as well as wine assets long divested. Can I suggest you include a link to the Lion website for information on Lion brands, as the changes required would include a complete overhaul: http://lionco.com/brands/ 15)	We also have an extensive dairy and drinks business that is not referenced here at all. From a site/production perspective this includes; a dairy foods site in Wetherill Park NSW; a milk site in Penrith NSW; two juice sites in Leeton and Smithfield NSW; a cheese cut and wrap site in Allansford VIC; a milk site in Chelsea Heights VIC; a yogurt site in Morwell VIC; a Vitasoy soy site in Wodonga VIC; a milk site in Crestmead QLD and another in Malanda QLD; a milk site in Salisbury SA; a specialty cheese site in Burnie TAS; a milk site in Lenah Valley TAS; our King Island cheese site on King Island TAS; a milk and juice site in Bentley WA; a milk and cheese site in Canberra ACT; and a dairy foods site in Palmerston North NZ.

If you need further information please email me on leela.sutton@lionco.com

Cheers Leela

203.174.133.198 (talk) 04:05, 14 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Padlock-silver-open.svg Not done: The page's protection level and/or your user rights have changed since this request was placed. You should now be able to edit the page yourself. If you still seem to be unable to, please reopen the request with further details. That said, you should take care and read over WP:COI since you have a conflict of interest. -- ferret (talk) 19:33, 22 August 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080905215133/http://www.lion-nathan.com/Great-Company/About-Us/History.aspx to http://www.lion-nathan.com/Great-Company/About-Us/History.aspx
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131009211228/http://www.thevine.com.au/life/news/tap-king-beer-of-the-future-or-frothy-fail-20131009-266454/ to http://www.thevine.com.au/life/news/tap-king-beer-of-the-future-or-frothy-fail-20131009-266454/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20070801023615/http://www.lion-nathan.com/Great-Company/Locations-and-Contacts.aspx to http://www.lion-nathan.com/Great-Company/Locations-and-Contacts.aspx
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20081021141223/http://www.beerawards.com/results_2003.asp to http://www.beerawards.com/results_2003.asp
 * Added tag to http://www.beertown.org/events/wbc/winners_list/winners_2008.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080829011152/http://www.lion-nathan.com/Great-Brands/NZ-Beer/Canterbury-Draught.aspx to http://www.lion-nathan.com/Great-Brands/NZ-Beer/Canterbury-Draught.aspx
 * Added archive https://archive.is/20001206213700/http://www.banksiawines.com/ to http://www.banksiawines.com/
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20101229105530/http://www.knappsteinwines.com.au/ to http://www.knappsteinwines.com.au/
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Cleanup of beers and breweries needed
Having just done a fairly major cleanup of the company history, holdings and names (hopefully all sorted now), I have no time nor inclination to look at that long list of breweries and beers. The problem with lists of brands is that they do change and become out of date quite quickly, so I question the wisdom of having them there in the first place. If there is someone out there willing to do it, I would suggest just listing a few examples under each heading, with As of templates, saying that [whatever list] includes the following brands. Laterthanyouthink (talk) 03:14, 15 December 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Lion (Australasian company)


text:
Fables and Parables

Fables and Parables (Bajki i przypowieści, 1779), by Ignacy Krasicki (1735–1801), is a work in a long international tradition of fable-writing that reaches back to antiquity.

Krasicki's fables and parables have been described as being, "[l]ike Jean de La Fontaine's [fables],... amongst the best ever written, while in colour they are distinctly original, because Polish."

They are, according to Czesław Miłosz, "the most durable among Krasicki's poems."

Characteristics
Emulating the fables of the ancient Greek Aesop, the Macedonian-Roman Phaedrus, the Polish Biernat of Lublin, and the Frenchman Jean de La Fontaine, and anticipating Russia's Ivan Krylov, Poland's Krasicki populates his fables with anthropomorphized animals, plants, inanimate objects, and forces of nature, in epigrammatic expressions of a skeptical, ironic view of the world.

That view is informed by Krasicki's observations of human nature and of national and international politics in his day—including the predicament of the expiring Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth. Just seven years earlier (1772), the Commonwealth had experienced the first of three partitions that would, by 1795, totally expunge the Commonwealth from the political map of Europe.

The Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth would fall victim to the aggression of three powerful neighbors much as, in Krasicki's fable of "The Lamb and the Wolves," the lamb falls prey to the two wolves. The First Partition had rendered Krasicki—an intimate of Poland's last king, Stanisław August Poniatowski—involuntarily a subject of that Partition's instigator, Prussia's King Frederick II ("the Great"). Krasicki would, unlike Frederick, survive to witness the final dismemberment of the Commonwealth.

Krasicki's parables (e.g., "Abuzei and Tair," "The Blind Man and the Lame," "Son and Father," "The Farmer," "Child and Father," "The Master and His Dog," "The King and the Scribes," and "The Drunkard") do not, by definition, employ the anthropomorphization that characterizes the fables. Instead, his parables point elegant moral lessons drawn from more quotidian human life.

Krasicki's, writes Czesław Miłosz, "is a world where the strong win and the weak lose in a sort of immutable order... Reason is exalted as the human equivalent of animal strength:  the [clever]  survive, the stupid perish."

Miłosz writes:

"Poetry for [Krasicki] was a more concise and elegant prose, and originality of subject had no importance. Thus [he] borrowed the subjects of his fables from the enormous body of fabular literature starting with Aesop and finishing with his own French contemporaries. He also borrowed from [the earlier French fabulist] LaFontaine, especially in... his New Fables... published [posthumously in 1802], but whatever he took was always completely transformed.  His extreme conciseness is best seen if one counts the number of words in the original author's version and compares it to that of Krasicki's on the same subject.  The pleasure... for the poet [as well as] for the reader... is probably due to the [compression] of a whole story, sometimes even a novella, into a few lines, and among Krasicki's best... fables [are those] which [comprise] only one quatrain where the author's pen moves in one rush toward the final pointe."

The Fables and Parables are written as 13-syllable lines, in couplets with the rhyme scheme AA BB. They range in length from 2 to 18 lines. The introductory invocation "To the Children", while employing the same rhyme scheme, uses lines of 11 syllables.

Curiously, the fables include two with the identical title, "The Stream and the River"; two with the identical title, "The Lion and the Beasts"; two with the identical title, "Nightingale and Goldfinch"; and two with the identical title, "The Wolf and the Sheep".

Critics generally prefer Krasicki's more concise Fables and Parables (1779), sampled here, over his later New Fables, published posthumously in 1802. This is consistent with Krasicki's own dictum in On Versification and Versifiers that "A fable should be brief, clear and, so far as possible, preserve the truth."

In the same treatise, Krasicki explains that a fable "is a story commonly ascribed to animals, that people who read it might take instruction from [the animals'] example or speech...; it originated in eastern lands where supreme governance reposed in the hands of autocrats. Thus, when it was feared to proclaim the truth openly, simulacra were employed in fables so that—if only in this way—the truth might be agreeable alike to the ruled and to the rulers."

Samples
Below are 17 samples from Krasicki's Fables and Parables (1779), in English translation by Christopher Kasparek. An additional 45 items may be found at Wikisource; the total of 62 items presented there constitute 52% of the 119 in Krasicki's original Fables and Parables.

Abuzei and Tair
"Congratulate me, father," said Tair, "I prosper. Tomorrow I am to become the Sultan's brother- In-law and hunt with him." Quoth father: "All does alter, Your lord's good graces, women's favor, autumn weather." He had guessed aright, the son's plans did not turn out well: The Sultan withheld his sister, all day the rain fell.

The Blind Man and the Lame
A blind man was carrying a lame man on his back, And everything was going well, everything's on track, When the blind man decides to take it into his head That he needn't listen to all that the lame man said. "This stick I have will guide the two of us safe," said he, And though warned by the lame man, he plowed into a tree. On they proceeded; the lame man now warned of a brook; The two survived, but their possessions a soaking took. At last the blind man ignored the warning of a drop, And that was to turn out their final and fatal stop.
 * Which of the two travelers, you may ask, was to blame?

Why, 'twas both the heedless blind man and the trusting lame.

The Eagle and the Hawk
Eagle, not wishing to incommode himself with chase, Decided to send hawk after sparrows in his place. Hawk brought him the sparrows, eagle ate them with pleasure; At last, not quite sated with the dainties to measure, Feeling his appetite growing keener and keener — Eagle ate fowl for breakfast, the fowler for dinner.

Son and Father
Every age has its bitter, every age has its grief: Son toiled o'er his book, father was vexed beyond belief. The one had no rest; the other no freedom, forsooth: Father lamented his age, son lamented his youth.

Birds in a Cage
"Why do you weep?" inquired the young siskin of the old, "You're more comfortable in this cage than out in the cold." "You were born caged," said the elder, "this was your morrow; "I was free, now I'm caged—hence the cause of my sorrow."

The Little Fish and the Pike
Espying a worm in the water, the little fish Did greatly regret the worm could not become his dish. Up came a pike and made his preparations to dine; He swallowed both worm and hook, which he failed to divine. As the angler pulled ashore his magnificent prize, Quoth the little fish: "Sometimes good to be undersize."

The Farmer
A farmer, bent on doubling the profits from his land, Proceeded to set his soil a two-harvest demand. Too intent thus on profit, harm himself he must needs: Instead of corn, he now reaps corn cockle and weeds.

Two Dogs
"Why do I freeze out of doors while you sleep on a rug?" Inquired the bobtail mongrel of the fat, sleek pug. "I have run of the house, and you the run of a chain," The pug replied, "because you serve, while I entertain."

The Master and His Dog
The dog barked all the night, keeping the burglar away; It got a beating for waking the master, next day. That night it slept soundly and did the burglar no harm; He burgled; the dog got caned for not raising alarm.

The Humble Lion
'Tis bad at master's court to lie, bad the truth to tell. Lion, intent on showing all that he was humble, Called for open reproaches. Said the fox: "Your great vice Is that you're too kind, too gracious, excessively nice." The sheep, seeing lion pleased by fox's rebuke, said: "You are a cruel, voracious tyrant." — and she was dead.

The Lamb and the Wolves
Aggression ever finds cause if sufficiently pressed. Two wolves on the prowl had trapped a lamb in the forest And were about to pounce. Quoth the lamb: "What right have you?" "You're toothsome, weak, in the wood." — The wolves dined sans ado.

Man and Wolf
Man was traveling in wolfskin when wolf stopped his way. "Know from my garb," said the man, "what I am, what I may." The wolf first laughed out loud, then grimly said to the man: "I know that you are weak, if you need another's skin."

Compassion
The sheep was praising the wolf for all his compassion; Hearing it, fox asked her: "How is that?  In what fashion?" "Very much so!" says the sheep, "I owe him what I am. He's mild! He could've eaten me, but just ate my lamb."

The Neighborhood
Rye sprouted up on land that, until then, fallow lay. But to what avail when, all about, bramble held sway. The soil was good, though it had never been touched by plow; It would have brought forth grain, did the bramble this allow.
 * Happy is the man who with equals shares his border!

Bad be famine, war, bad air; but worse still, bad neighbor.

Refractory Oxen
Pleasant the beginnings, but lamentable the end. In spring, the oxen to their plowing would not attend; They would not carry the grain to the barn in the fall; Came winter, bread ran out, the farmer ate them withal.

The Drunkard
Having spent at the bottle many a night and day, The ailing drunkard threw his mugs and glasses away; He declared wine a tyrant, reviled beer, cursed out mead. Then, his health restored... he'd no longer abstinence heed.

Bread And Sword
As the bread lay next to the sword, the weapon demurred: "You would certainly show me more respect if you heard How by night and by day I conscientiously strive So that you may safely go on keeping men alive." "I know," said the bread, "the shape of your duty's course: You defend me less often than you take me by force."

Translated from the Polish by Christopher Kasparek.

title: Fables and Parables


text:
Mukesh (singer)

Mukesh Chand Mathur (22 July 1923 – 27 August 1976), better known mononymously as Mukesh, was an Indian playback singer. Mukesh is considered to be one of the most popular and acclaimed playback singers of the Hindi film industry. Amongst the numerous nominations and awards he won, his song "Kai Baar Yuhi Dekha Hai" from the film Rajnigandha (1973) won him the National Film Award for Best Male Playback Singer.

Mukesh was also popular as being the voice of actors Raj Kapoor, Manoj Kumar, Feroz Khan, Sunil Dutt and Dilip Kumar.

Early life
Mukesh was born in Delhi in a Mathur Kayastha family on 22 July 1923. His parents were Zorawar Chand Mathur, an engineer, and Chandrani Mathur. He was the sixth in a family of ten children. The music teacher who came home to teach Mukesh's sister, Sundar Pyari, found a pupil in Mukesh, who would listen from the adjoining room. Mukesh left school after the 10th grade and worked briefly for the Department of Public Works. He experimented with voice recordings during his employment in Delhi and gradually developed his singing abilities and also his musical instrumental skills.

Singing career
Mukesh's voice was first noticed by Motilal, a distant relative, when he sang at his sister's wedding. Motilal took him to Bombay (now Mumbai) and arranged for singing lessons by Pandit Jagannath Prasad. During this period Mukesh was offered a role as an actor-singer in a Hindi film, Nirdosh (1941). His first song was "Dil Hi Bujha Hua Ho To" as an actor-singer for Nirdosh written by Neelkanth Tiwari. His first hit song as a playback singer was "Dil Jalta Hai To Jalne De" for actor Motilal in 1945 with the film Pehli Nazar with music composed by Anil Biswas and lyrics written by Aah Sitapuri.

Mukesh was such a fan of singer K. L. Saigal that in his early years of playback singing he used to imitate his idol. In fact, it is said that when K. L. Saigal first heard the song "Dil Jalta Hai...", he remarked, "That's strange, I don't recall singing that song".

Mukesh created his own singing style with the help of music director Naushad Ali, who helped Mukesh to come out of his Saigal style and create his own style. Naushad gave him songs for the film Andaz. Initially Mukesh was the ghost voice of Dilip Kumar in this movie and Mohammed Rafi sang for Raj Kapoor. He delivered many Hits for Naushad in films like: Anokhi Ada (1948), Mela (1948), Andaz (1949). Other composers who used Mukesh voice for great Dilip Kumar in hit songs like "Jeevan Sapna toot gaya" were Anil Biswas in Anokha Pyar, Ye Mera Diwanapan hai, Shankar–Jaikishan in Yahudi and Suhana Safar and Dil Tadap Tadap ke, Salil Choudhary in Madhumati. However, later Dilip Kumar choose Rafi as his ghost voice and Mukesh became the ghost voice of Raj Kapoor. Mukesh recorded highest number of songs for Shankar–Jaikishan, that is 133 songs followed by Kalyanji Anandji ie 99 songs. Out of 4 Filmfare Awards, Mukesh won 3 awards for Shankar–Jaikishan songs.

In 1974, Mukesh received National Film Award for Best Male Playback Singer for the song "Kai Baar Yuhi Dekha Hai" from Rajnigandha (1974), and Filmfare Awards for the songs "Sab Kuch Seekha Humne" in the movie Anari (1959), "Sabse Bada Naadan Wahi Hai" in Pehchaan (1970), "Jai Bolo Beimaan Ki" in Beimaan (1972) (all the three songs composed by Shankar–Jaikishan) and "Kabhi Kabhie Mere Dil Mein", the title song of film Kabhie Kabhie (1976) (composed by Khayyam). A total of around 1,300 songs were sung by him. This number is less than those sung by some of his contemporaries, but the fact is that Mukesh emphasised on quality rather than quantity. The comparatively fewer songs sung by him in the 1970s can be attributed to his failing health due to his worsening heart problem.

Mukesh sang many songs for Kalyanji Anandji music director duo. Mukesh sang more songs with the K-A duo after Shankar–Jaikishan. From "Naina hai jadoo bhare..." Bedard Zamana Kya Jane (1958) composed by Kalyanji alone as Kalyanji Virji Shah, and "Main hoon mast madari..." Madari (1959) as the first Kalyanji-Anandji-Mukesh combo, to "Chahe aaj mujhe napasand karo" Darinda 1977, the K-A, Mukesh combination gave numerous popular songs like "Chhalia mera naam...", "Mere toote hue dil se...", "Dum dum diga diga" Chalia (1959), "Mujhko iss raat ki tanhai mein..." Dil Bhi Tera Hum Bhi Tere (1960), "Hum chhod chale hain mehfil ko..." (Ji Chahta Hai), "Humne tumko pyar kiya hai jitna..." (Dulha Dulhan), "Chal mere dil lehraake chal..." Ishara and "Dheere se chalo..." Johar Mehmood in Goa, "Main to ek khwab hoon..." and "Chand si mehbooba ho..." Himalay Ki Godmein(1965), "Waqt kartaa jo wafaa..." Dil Ne Pukara, "Deewanon se yeh mat poocho..." Upkar, "Khush raho har khushi hai..." Suhaag Raat and "Humsafar ab yeh safar kat jaayega..." Juari, "Chandi ki deewaar..." and "Le chal le chal mere jeevan saathi..." Vishwas (1969), "Koi jab tumhara hriday tod de..." Purab Aur Paschim, "Darpan ko dekha..." Upaasna, "Jo tumko ho pasand..." Safar and "Mujhe nahin poochni tumse beeti baatein..." Anjaan Raahein (1970).

Out of the numerous songs he gave his voice to, "Kahin door jab din dhal Jaaye" from Anand(1971), "Ek Pyaar ka Nagma hai" from Shor (1972), "Maine Tere Liye Hi Saat Rang Ke" from Anand (1972), "Sab Kuch Seekha Humne" from Anari (1959), "Jeena yahan marna yahan" and "Kehta hai Joker" from Mera Naam Joker (1971) are the most popular among his fans and followers.

In his career, Mukesh sung 110 songs for Raj Kapoor, 47 songs for Manoj Kumar and 20 songs for Dilip Kumar.

As an actor and producer
Mukesh started his career as an actor singer in the film Nirdosh in 1941, with Nalini Jaywant as his heroine. His second film was Adab Arz in 1943. He played a guest role in Raj Kapoor's film Aah in 1953. He acted as a hero in the film Mashooka in 1953, opposite Suraiya and in the film Anurag (1956) (he was also the co-producer and composer in the film), opposite Usha Kiran and Mridula Rani. Mukesh also produced a film Malhar (1951) with hero Arjun & heroine Shammi with Darling Films.

Appreciation
Mukesh was a favourite of renowned Indian spin-bowler Bhagwath Chandrasekhar. When the sound of a Mukesh song drifted to the pitch, Chandrasekhar's acknowledgement of the tribute would bring a roar from the crowd. Sunil Gavaskar wrote that sometimes he hummed a Mukesh tune on the field to inspire Chandra. Chandra's passion affected team-mates Kirmani, Gundappa Viswanath, and even some journalists.

Google commemorated Mukesh on his 93rd birthday anniversary in 2016.

Personal life
Mukesh married Saral Trivedi, daughter of Raichand Trivedi, a millionaire. With no proper house, an erratic income and what was then considered in India a supposedly "immoral" profession (singer in movies), the consent of Saral's father for this marriage could not be obtained and Mukesh and Saral were forced to elope. They got married in a temple in Kandivali on 22 July 1946, Mukesh's 23rd birthday, with the help of the actor Motilal and from the residence of R. D. Mathur. Everyone made dire predictions of unhappy days and divorce, but both weathered the lean days and celebrated their thirtieth wedding anniversary on 22 July 1976, four days before his departure for the USA. The couple had five children – Rita, the singer Nitin, Nalini (d. 1978), Mohnish and Namrata (Amrita). The actor Neil Nitin Mukesh is a grandson of Mukesh (son of Nitin).

Death
Mukesh died of a heart attack on 27 August 1976 in Detroit, Michigan, USA, where he had gone to perform in a concert. That morning, he got up early and went to take a shower. He came out short of breath and complaining of chest pains. He was rushed to a hospital but was pronounced dead. The rest of the concert was completed by Lata Mangeshkar and his son Nitin Mukesh. His body was flown to India by Mangeshkar, where a grand funeral ceremony was held in the presence of several actors, with personalities of the Indian film industry and fans paying tribute. When news of his death reached his acquaintance and actor Raj Kapoor, he burst into tears, and remarked, "I have lost my voice," which is a testimony to the association of Mukesh's voice (in playback) to the immensely popular songs of Raj Kapoor's films.

After Mukesh's death, his newer, hitherto unreleased, songs were released in 1977 in films such as Dharam Veer, Amar Akbar Anthony, Khel khiladi ka, Darinda and Chandi sona. The year 1978 also featured a considerable number of Mukesh's songs in films such as Aahuti, Paramatma, Tumhari kasam and Satyam Shivam Sundaram, where Mukesh sang his last film song Chanchal sheetal nirmal komal for Raj Kapoor's younger brother, Shashi Kapoor. From 1980 onward, Mukesh's voice was heard in many later released films such as Shaitan mujarim, Premika, Patthar se Takkar (1980), Sanjh ki Bela, Maila Anchal (1981), Aarohi (1982), Chor Mandali (1983), Nirlaj (1985), Love and God (1986), Shubh Chintak (1989), and his last known release of Chand Grahan (1997).

National Film Awards

 * 1974 – National Film Award for Best Male Playback Singer for the song "Kai Baar Yuhi Dekha Hai" from the film Rajnigandha

Bengal Film Journalists' Association Awards
Winner
 * 1967 – Best Male Playback Singer for Teesri Kasam
 * 1968 – Best Male Playback Singer for Milan
 * 1970 – Best Male Playback Singer for Saraswatichandra

Filmography
As an actor: As a singer:

title: Mukesh (singer)


text:
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