text:
Coat of arms of Puerto Rico

The coat of arms of Puerto Rico was first granted by the Spanish Crown on November 8, 1511, making it the oldest heraldic achievement still currently in use in the Americas. The territory was seized from Spain and ceded to the United States as a result of the Treaty of Paris that put an end to the Spanish–American War in 1899, after which two interim arms were adopted briefly. A law was passed in 1905 that reestablished the historical armorial bearings as the arms of the territory. Then in 1976, after numerous investigations and amendments, the current version was adopted.

History
The main element of the coat of arms of Puerto Rico is the Lamb of God. Despite Puerto Rico being a US territory, the shield continues to have elements reminiscent of Spain's presence in the New World. There have been different variations of the coat of arms throughout Puerto Rico's history. The current version was officially readopted by the government of Puerto Rico on 3 June 1976.

On the shield:
 * The green background represents the island's vegetation. The Lamb of God and cross flag on the shield are symbols traditionally associated with St. John the Baptist, patron of the island. The book with the seven seals on which the lamb sits represents symbolism from the Book of Revelation, attributed to John of Patmos.
 * The border is made up of 16 different elements: castles and lions to represent the Kingdom of Castile and the Kingdom of León, a flag with the arms of the Crown of Castile and León, and The Cross of Jerusalem to stand for the Kingdom of Jerusalem, whose succession rights passed to the Kingdom of Sicily, and henceforth to the Spanish Crown.
 * The gold-crowned F and the arrows (flechas) represent Ferdinand II of Aragon, while the Y and the yoke (yugo) represent Ysabel, i.e., Isabella I of Castile who were the Catholic monarchs when Puerto Rico was discovered.

 * The Latin motto, "JOANNES EST NOMEN EJUS" (a quotation from the Vulgate of Luke 1:63), means "John is his name", referring to St. John the Baptist or San Juan Bautista, the original Spanish name of the island.

Great Seal
All of the states and territories of the United States employ a seal to authenticate and ratify documents and accordingly a seal of Puerto Rico exists, but the traditional coat of arms is used as the main emblem of the territory. The seal has most of the elements of the coat of arms, but the religious elements have been stripped away in accordance with the separation of church and state in the United States. In the seal, the lamb, which no longer has a halo, carries a white banner instead of one with a Red Cross. The book the lamb sits on does not have the seals of the Book of Revelation. The first Governors used the seal as their emblem but in recent years the usage of the seal has been limited to being the official emblem used to represent Puerto Rico on its legal documents when they are sealed.

Seal of the governor
The seal of the governor is the official symbol of the executive head of Puerto Rico. It follows the design used by the seal of the president of the United States. There are several variants of the governor's seal in use.

Seals of the government of Puerto Rico
There are several seals of the different sections of the Puerto Rican government.

title: Coat of arms of Puerto Rico


text:
Talk:Bob Charles (golfer)

Titles are ok in wiki
For some reason which he did not state, User:Poccil removed the title Sir before the name of Bob Charles. I replaced the title, saying ("Replace "Sir". Why deny him his title?)" User Poccil again removed the title a few minutes laer, again without comment. So, I have replaced it again, stating that it is the predominant wiki usage and asking he see this talk page. Anyone who has come here as the result of that request can visit Steve Redgrave, Clive Woodward, Elton John, Walter Raleigh and Edmund Hillary to see that while articles on knighted persons do correctly not use the title in the heading, the title is given to the person when opening the intro, as it should be, (see Winston Churchill in particular. Since when should wiki deny people their titles?

Removal of tag

 * To explain what has happened re the removal of the cleanup tag, here is the info I posted to the User talk:MacGyverMagic page

Your comments re my removing Bob Charles (golfer) from cleanup are noted. As you are quick to give advice, can I refer you to what User:Adam Carr said recently when announcing he was pulling out of general editing. Here's a refresher

 * "Wikipedia must cease privileging process over product The objective of Wikpedia must be to produce an encyclopaedia, not to provide an adventure playground for every crank, cultist and nutcase on the planet."

Here we have an example allied to what Adam was on about. So please follow what happened

Dec 1 14:58. User:Poccil removed the title Sir from the Bob Charles article, without giving a reason

Dec 1 15:02. I replaced the word Sir and asked in the summary Why deny his title?

Dec 1 15:03. Poccil removed the word Sir again, without comment, and without answering my question.

Dec 1 15:37. I replaced the word Sir, said in the summary it was per predominant wikistyle, and said "see talk page" where I clearly gave the rationale for keeping the title.

Dec 1 17:23. Poccil put a cleanup tag on the page commenting only, "check for neutrality", a spiteful edit if ever I saw one

Dec 1 19:59. I removed the tag saying it was absolute silliness.

Dec 1 22:32. You replaced the tag and gave me a lecture.

Dec 2 08:14. Poccil again edited the page, removing the word Sir from the bolded intro

Dec 2 08:16. Poccil edited the page again, amending a comma.

Your note to me was a cop out, a fine example of what Adam Carr was on about. You said, in part

 * "I'd like to inform you that removing cleanup tags is considered bad conduct. Feel free to head over to the talk page of the user who added it, and discuss it (ask for clarification what isn't neutral). But don't just remove it. ".

Removing tags IS NOT bad conduct when they need to be removed. You urge ME to ask a user who tagged the article to seek clarification. How about you ask HIM to clarify what isn't neutral, on the cleanup or talk pages? Are you unaware one of the guidelines for the cleanup page is ''Be specific. Saying "needs work" is not enough'' ?

When you relisted the article on cleanup, you said "needs NPOVing". Where does it need NPOVing? Why have you not said why it needs NPOVing? You are using, in fact abusing, the process, not working in the best interests of Wikipedia. I have revisted the article and cannot see anything that needs NPOVing, so consequently I am removing it from cleanup, and the tag. It's possible of course that new admins have much more superior powers to detect POV than the thousands of run of the mill editors like me, in which case I guess that without stating exactly what is wrong with it you will relist it again, without fixing it like a good little wikipedian should.

Also, saying something is silly may well be "considered uncivil by some", as you say. And it may well be not considered uncivil by others -- something to do with freedom of speech and thought and opinion. Kind regards.Moriori 02:33, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

Moriori 02:50, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

I agree that Poccil shouldn't have removed "sir", but that has got nothing to do with the cleanup tag. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 08:18, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)
 * I went through the article and copied the phrases I think are POV here.
 * "and demonstrated great golfing potential."
 * "The media was full of praise for this slight young man"
 * "but all the while continued to show exceptional putting prowess"
 * "unerring putting"

External links modified
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title: Talk:Bob Charles (golfer)


text:
Talk:Norman language

Revision needed
This article needs revision and referencing, especially for the medieval period. Regional spelling differences at a time when French orthography had not consolidated hardly warrant classification as a language proper. Jouvencel 23:10, 11 April 2023 (UTC)

 * Update: Made relevant changes to the lead and moved the citation banner to the Geographical distribution section. Jouvencel (talk) 00:23, 15 July 2024 (UTC)

Modern Swedish
Having Swedish as my first language, the "Modern Swedish" column seems off its rocker (to use an anglicism). "Böle" is a very old word, essentially only surviving in place names and rural dialects. "Greja" is 20th century slang that has made it's way into the Swedish proper. How is that relevant to the subject matter? "Skrida" does not mean "to skate", it means "to stride". "Järnad" is an adjective form of the rather odd "järna", "to make ironclad"; this is not a proper word. "Holma" is an 19th century fem. form of "holme", which is certainly not modern and was only ever used in dialect, since "holme" was masc. -- the following "holm" isn't a complete word and _only_ occurs in place names (eg Stockholm). More than 30 years of Swedish as my first language, and I have never heard "wicket" as a loan-word in Swedish.

It definitely isn't "modern Swedish" and at least that column should be removed, in my opinion. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.237.142.7 (talk) 13:33, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

Also, it is VERY unlikely that there existed an Old East Norse word "jordnothr", since it was the Spanish who brought back peanuts from South America in the 16th century. This gives me the impression the entire table is simply made up. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 194.237.142.7 (talk) 13:41, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

 * This seems to be the appropriate section to ask this, but I immediately wondered why Old East Norse and Swedish are used for the comparisons, rather than Old West Norse and modern Danish, since it was Denmark that as far as I understood the settlers from Nordic lands mostly came from.....did older versions of this page not have Danish and Old West Norse, in fact? I haven't looked at it in a while, was prepping to send someone the link re a discussion on European local languages.....112.209.51.156 (talk) 11:16, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Norse "hóra"
I am not a norse expert, but the word "hóra" seems to be the same word as english whore. Of course, it isn't sich a strange semantic shift, anyway. I heard that the common swedish word "flicka"(girl) originally meant slut, at least it does in norwegian...

Norman Wikipedia
Work is currently underway on a test Wikipedia in Norman. Contributions and comments welcome. Man vyi 14:18, 18 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Norman Wikipedia now up and running, and awaiting contributions! Man vyi 18:06, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

Dialect Comparison
It would be really nice to see a comparison of Insular and Continental dialects at some point. The Jade Knight 23:28, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Proposed move
It has been proposed that Languages of Oïl be renamed and moved to Langues d'Oïl. Comments and votes on Talk:Languages of Oïl, please, if you're interested. Man vyi 09:12, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Infobox
I've added an infobox, copying the family information from the one on French language. The number of speakers and the ISO codes aren't yet filled in - I suspect there are no ISO codes, but there ought to be information on the number of speakers. If I've made any errors, please correct them. Hairy Dude 04:47, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Sadly, I've searched and searched and cannot find accurate numbers for Norman speakership in France. Numbers are available for Channel Island speakership, however.  The Jade Knight 06:46, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
 * The French state permits no language questions in the census - there are really no reliable stats for regional languages in France (of course, whether a census question would give reliable figures is another matter...) Man vyi 07:00, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I did notice that in a recent census or survey there was a question about Oïl langues (other than French). However, it did not distinguish between which Oïl langues (and as such is of limited use).  The Jade Knight 08:43, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
 * I've added the ISO 639 codes. Ethnologue, the registering authority for ISO 639-3 is really not good on Oïl languages, and seems to let the codes for French cover all of them. In the meantime, roa is the ISO 639-2 code for any Romance language not covered by a more specific code. — Gareth Hughes 18:10, 9 March 2006 (UTC)

Update: Màgene claim 20,000 continental speakers of Norman. I don't know where they get this number, though. The Jade Knight 18:42, 25 March 2006 (UTC)

More linguistics, please
More discussion of phonology, syntax, even orthographic evolution -- not just word comparison or literature -- would be nice. Comparison with standard French would be a good way to go about this. A-giau 12:03, 30 March 2006 (UTC)
 * Many of the Norman Wikipedia articles now feature phonology and orthography comparisons between the various dialects of Norman. You may find this useful, if you can navigate the language.  The Jade Knight 23:21, 1 April 2006 (UTC)

Is the Norman language considered a dialect? Did it change from Ancient French to Middle French to Modern French? Is it several dialects? It would help to know if there were more distinctions based on dialect (s) in the region of Normandy at various intervals in the last 1,000 years or so. Stevenmitchell 20:11, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Any linguist that has taken a close look at Norman can easily see that it is not "a dialect"—it is most certainly not a dialect of French. Norman does not come from Ancient French, but rather descends from Old Norman, which was a distinct langue d'oïl (arguably, Old Norman was simply a different dialect from Old French.  But that was 1,000 years ago).  Modern Norman contains, however, several dialects, which are often grouped into Insular Norman (spoken in the Channel Islands) and Continental Norman (which share a unified orthography).  Even within a single dialect, such as Jèrriais, there are numerous regional accents (/"dialects") which can differ substantially in pronunciation.  The Jade Knight 22:10, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

 * Clearly, you're not any linguist. Because "Norman" is a complete English fantasy designed at reassuring them that they were enslaved by Vikings and not by Frenchmen. Sadly, though, history speaks for itself. William's army was composed mostly of Picards, Bretons, and Normans (who were 7th generation French-born and spoke only French. If that ain't enough yet to qualify as French, then 80% of Americans are Europeans. Have fun explaining them that). And those people spoke French. Maybe an older version of modern French, but we can't blame them for not speaking a language which still didn't exist in their days. They spoke contemporary 11th century French. Honni soit qui mal y pense, Brits. Soyez honnis, donc. 95.115.46.128 (talk) 20:52, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
 * I do not agree with that. 1st statement : Normans "were 7th generation French-born". Not true : Old Norse and Old Danish were probably still spoken by people living in the Cotentin region and maybe some other places in Upper Normandy until the generation of William's father, as it is attested in the recorded place-names with a typical Nordic spelling until the 11th century. An important immigration of Anglo-Danish and Anglo-Norse farmers from England, Danemark and Norway could have continued until the end of the 10th century. About the feeling to be "French", Georges Duby demonstrated with historical facts, that the regional identities remained essential among the knights and the population until the 13th century at least and still in the 14th century during the first period of the hundred year war. There are many documents showing these facts, for example : « Baivier e Saisne sunt alet à cunseill, e Peitevin e Norman e Franceis; asez i as Alemans e Tiedeis. » (the Saxons et Bavarians went to the council, together with the Poitevins, the Normans and the French...., Chanson de Roland verse 3795). Other wrong statement : "William's army was composed mostly of Picards, Bretons, and Normans". No, about a half of his army originated from Normandy. Concerning the language they spoke, there were probably different languages in William's army, even if the majority could speak the langue d'oïl and Wace who wrote in the 12th century said :

<< a Chaem fui petiz portez, illoques fui a letres mis, pois fui longues en France apris ; quant jo de France repairai, a Chaem longues conversai, de romanz faire m'entremis, mult en escris et mult en fis >> (then, I studied in France for a long time...when I came back from France, I stayed for a long time in Caen..I began to write in Romanz) Other citation << e de Normanz est apelee Normendie que il unt poplee. Neustrie aveit nun anceis, tant cume ele fut as franceis >> (Normandy was called Neustrie, when it belonged to the French). Other wrong statement : English people would say "Normans" instead of "Frenchmen" and French people would say "French", that is exactly the contrary. In England, the Normans were considered as French, because they came from the "French continent". Other thing : the expression Norman-French is typical English and it does not exist in French. If you feel French, that's your right, because your ancestors are mixed, but there are Norman people who feel Norman and continue to speak Norman. That is probably not your case. Nortmannus (talk) 16:53, 15 June 2011 (UTC)

 * If I may interject, your counterpoint is somewhat misleading. Quote: "Not true : Old Norse and Old Danish were probably still spoken by people living in the Cotentin". You are referring to bilingual coastal towns like Bayeux, where more Danish immigrants may have settled in the middle of the 10th century. We know from Adémar de Chabannes that whatever Danish was still spoken there quickly disappeared. Which goes back to the premise of the previous post, caustic as it was: that the Norman settlers of the late 9th and early 10th century were almost all men, and those who had descendants had to marry local women, so that the mother tongue of the 2nd generation was Old French. Moreover, 10th-century Normandy became a much larger territory than the original concession of 911, absorbing an even greater population of Franks. So much so that many of those Norman towns from which William the Conqueror raised troops dated back to Neustria. Lastly, in your 12th-century quote from Wace "France" refers to Île-de-France, the land under direct control of the French crown. Inhabitants from other parts of the kingdom were typically referred to by their provincial name. See my other reply below. Old Brunswicker (talk) 19:15, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Thankfully the French historians I've read don't pursue this noxious Parisian revisionist fantasy that 11th century 'Normans' and 'Bretons' didn't exist. They were very distinct people - the Bretons are still. No one in the 11th century conflated the French and Normans, especially the Normans who were exceptionally proud of their 'Gens'. The English didn't actually call the Normans 'French' as modern translations via Latin erroneously make out. Their term for Normans was 'Frenciscan', different to what they called the French, which was 'Francan'. In Old English a 'Norman' was a Norwegian as is still the case in the Scandinavian languages. And even when the Latin uses the term Franci - the term was still a loose one covering the various peoples from the former Carolingian world, so it worked for the Normans, Bretons and Flemings who far, far outnumbered the Poithevins or Angevins (and obviously the 'Romanz' language as old French/Spanish/Italian were then known were acquired second languages for the Bretons and Flemings). — Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.184.115.220 (talk) 09:10, 17 December 2013 (UTC)

 * A lot of wrong assumptions here. "They were very distinct people" The 11th century marked the peak of feudal France, which comprised several fiefs each with a strong sense of provincialism. Both Norman and Poitevin chronicles, for example, could refer to their inhabitants as Normani and Pictavensi regardless of their actual ancestry. The duchy of Aquitaine was even called a "monarchy" of its own in the Chronicon Aquitanicum et Francicum. Its author Adémar de Chabannes also uses different names to distinguish between Frenchmen from inside and outside the duchy. That does not mean they were distinct people. It means their distinction was based on their local provenance within the realm. By definition they were all French, to paraphrase Christine de Pisan, because they were "born in the kingdom of France".
 * "No one in the 11th century conflated the French and Normans". Well no one except the Normans themselves: in the tapestry of Bayeux the soldiers fighting the English at Hastings are all described as Franks. In his crusading speech, Bohemond I of Antioch, the son of Robert Guiscard, explicitly boasted of his French ancestry. None of your speculations have more weight that these direct testimonies. "Their term for Normans was Frenciscan, different to what they called the French, which was Francan". Sorry but that's nonsense. Those were some of the many Latin-derived variants for Frank/French corrupted by Old English. Charters of William the Conqueror are full of them, and if anything further reinforce my point. Old Brunswicker (talk) 19:02, 19 January 2024 (UTC)

Nrm
I note the Norman Wikipedia is at nrm: but there is no mention of this code in this article - from what is it derived? Should there be a link from the NRM TLA disamibg page? Thryduulf 14:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Archived discussion on Meta may provide some enlightenment. Man vyi 15:19, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * Although that discussion was interesting, it wasn't particularly enlightening regarding the choice of "nrm" over the other suggestion of "nor". Thryduulf 16:39, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
 * "Nor" is reserved for Norwegian (in terms of ISO codes); despite the fact that this is not currently being used by the Norwegian Wikipedias, someone felt it was best to find an entirely new code to use for the Norman wikipedia. nrm may have been my suggestion; I do not entirely remember.  It has the advantage of working in all relevant languages/dialects, however (Norman/normand/Nouormand/normaund), where "nor" doesn't work with Jèrriais.  The Jade Knight 08:45, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

Etymologies

 * What the OED says about "mug" (which is what I meant to write instead of "catch" in my edit summary, sorry) is:
 * Origin uncertain; app. related to Dutch mok mug (late 19th cent.), German regional (Low German) muck, German regional (Low German: East Friesland) mukke mug, Norwegian mugge open can or jug, Danish mugge, Swedish mugg mug, and also French regional moque, (Guernsey) mogue jug, cup, but the relationships between these words are unclear, and their further etymology is unknown.
 * There's nothing there to indicate that the idea the word came from Norman French is preferable to any other source (fwiw, the Online Etymology Dictionary, Dictionary.com, and the American Heritage Dictionary all suggest or claim it comes from a Scandinavian language)

--Miskwito 03:34, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 * I had removed "causeway" because only the "cause" part comes from Norman French; I didn't make that clear, though, and it's still correct to leave it in, so sorry about that

 * My edits reflect all this, and provide citation where available. With a great many words of Scandinavian and langue d'oïl origin in English, it is difficult to tell exactly which language they come from.  In the case of "mug", the earliest attestation is from 1400 and spelled "mogge"—clearly not a Dutch or German borrowing, and the timing makes it highly unlikely that it is a Scandinavian borrowing.  The most reasonable explanation of the timing and spelling of the earliest forms of this word is that it comes from Norman.  The Jade Knight 04:28, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

The old Normans spoke Old East Norse
I have corrected the table with etymologies for some Norman words according to how the old normans actually spoke. They didn't speak Old West Norse anno 1300AD, but rather Viking age Old East Norse. Very similar languages, but definitely some crucial differences. // Jens Persson (213.67.64.22 21:41, 29 April 2007 (UTC))

South East Ireland
I am going to remove the following from the article:

''In Ireland, Norman remained strongest in the area of south-east Ireland where the Normans invaded in 1169. In particular a distinctive variety of "Norman French" remained alive in the barony of Forth and Bargy in Wexford until very recent times.''

I am from Wexford and I can say without doubt that Yola, as the extinct local dialect is known, was a variety of Middle English NOT French. There is even a glossary with examples of poetry and song in the Yola dialect which were collected by Jacob Poole, a Quaker preacher from the barony of Forth and republished with additions by Dr Diarmuid Ó Muirithe. An Muimhneach Machnamhach 16:50, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

As for the Irish Folklore Commission possessing recordings of supposed Norman French speakers from Forth and Bargy, this is total nonsense. Yola died out long before tape recorders were even invented! An Muimhneach Machnamhach 16:56, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

 * new link to Yola: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forth_and_Bargy_dialect 194.174.73.33 (talk) 18:59, 28 October 2013 (UTC) Marco Pagliero Berlin

Forgive me
Being new to wikipedia, I'm not sure of exactly the right way to contradict your editing of this article, but anyway; I think you need to elaborate on your assertion that the Irish Folklore Commission do not possess recordings of French being spoken in Wexford. Do you work at or have access to the archives of said Commission? Or does simply being from Wexford equip you with this knowledge? Your assertion seems, as is, to rely on a further assertion that the Yola language must have been mistaken for French by the author of the original, removed article. Your argument appears approximately thus;"Yola is not French, Yola died out before tape recorders were invented, therefore there cannot be any recordings of French". Which is, literally, nonsense. It is of little consequence, as I cannot remember the name of the program in question, but I remember seeing on the telly (in the UK) some years ago footage of an elderly Irish man singing a song in what was claimed to be Norman French. This does not mean I am convinced of late survivals of Norman French in Ireland. It does, however, give me cause to think it would be better to put the removed item back until there is even the slightest sliver of a good reason for removing it. Bhasmanath
 * Welcome to Wikipedia, Bhasmanath! Articles here are not written by individuals, but by everyone who's interested and thinks they can contribute something.  You're welcome to Be Bold and edit the article yourself to make it more accurate!  The very best thing you can do would be to find citations/references which back up your claims and include them with your changes, but if you feel certain that something should or should not be in the article, you can always change it and then see if someone else objects.  The Jade Knight 04:04, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

French Dialect
Why isn't Norman considered a French dialect? I've read some sources that regard it as a dialect of French and some others that don't. For which reasons does Wikipedia consider it a separate language? Aaker 16:52, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
 * It's a language of France, for a start - the French state classes it as a separate language from French (without permitting it any official status though). Have a read of the Oïl languages article for more on the classification and division of the family. Man vyi 19:49, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Excuse me but how similar is Norman to French User:Doktoreggman —Preceding unsigned comment added by Doktoreggman (talk • contribs) 15:26, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
 * I'd say very similar. At least the written languages. Aaker (talk) 19:03, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
 * The spoken form is somewhat less similar, but still similar. Vocabulary is highly similar (at least 70-90% or more words are cognates with French, and a great many of them nearly identical), though many cognates contain different shades of meaning.  Grammar is very similar, but there are crucial differences, among which is the existance of a different tense system than that found in French.  Idioms are generally totally different from French.  The Orthography varies from being extremely similar to French (Jèrriais) to being moderately similar (Continental Norman) to being totally different (Sercquiais).  The Jade Knight (talk) 23:40, 21 February 2008 (UTC)
 * Merci pour la clarification! Aaker (talk) 22:34, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

Are Norman French and French mutually intelligible? Thats the normal dividing line between language and dialect, after all.Lexington1 (talk) 14:06, 16 April 2008 (UTC)
 * So Swedish and Danish are just dialects of the same language? Ditto Urdu and Hindi? 63.224.229.160 (talk) 00:02, 23 November 2009 (UTC) 63.224.229.160 (talk) 00:02, 23 November 2009 (UTC) 63.224.229.160 (talk) 00:02, 23 November 2009 (UTC)
 * Written Jèrriais is artificially close to French and largely intelligible to French speakers. I believe (though I am not particularly qualified to make this statement) that the spoken forms are not mutually intelligible (and even though I am fluent in French and have studied written Norman extensively, I still have difficulty understanding the spoken [or sung] form!).  That said, virtually all Norman speakers understand French (certainly on the Continent; I am unsure to what degree this is the case in the Isles), but French is an official language at all locations where Norman is spoken, and this may be the primary reason for this comprehension.  The Jade Knight (talk) 08:32, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
 * If I've understood it correctly, all langues d'oïl were considered varieties of the same language (Vulgar Latin => Old French => langues d'oïl) until Standard French became universally spoken. The reason why Danish and Swedish are considered different languages is more political than linguistic, the same goes for Hindi/Urdu and Serbian/Bosnian/Croatian, Catalan/Valencian and many others. The differences between Danish and Swedish are however much bigger than many people think, most Swedes and Danes have severe difficulties understanding each other, pronunciation is very different and grammar and orthography are quite different (unfortunately IMHO!). Aaker (talk) 18:05, 4 February 2010 (UTC)

Dalles - Norman origin?
Usually in French dalles is flagstone or paving stone; other meanings given in French wiki vary quite a bit, but none jibe with a meaning common in western North America - a particulary type of river rapids. It's that meaning of the homonym I"m wondering if it might not come from the Danish input into Normand; usually quebecois/canadien is associated with Brittany, "but"....anyway please see this discussion] on Talk:Dalles where I raise the possiblility - just a guess - that the etymology is via Norman French, from Danish/Norwegian dal (valley), which in certain cases is dale - vs the OED's intimation that the flag/pavingstone meaning is a loanword into French from Ger. diele. Or is there a Latin root in any of these cases?  Anyway, any etymologists or French-language historians hereabouts, please drop by the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Skookum1#Dalles discussion] and give us your thoughts.Skookum1 (talk) 03:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

dalle pl. dalles recorded in French in the 14th century (Larousse -étymologique, 1971) may come from the Norman dialect dalle that means "sink" (of a kitchen). It may be a confusion between 2 Old Danish words dal and doeli. The word "dal/le" "valley" is common in Norman place names: Dieppedalle, dipdal (Cf. deepdale GB), Eurdal, Bruquedalle ("brookdale"), Croixdalle (Craudalle 1253, "Crowdale"), Oudalle ("Wolfdale"), Les Petites Dalles, les Grandes Dalles, Daubeuf (Cf. Dalby GB), Becdal, etc...and is considered as Anglo Danish. Nortmannus (talk) 17:52, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

National Categorization
Jersey and Guernsey are not part of the UK. Should the nation bit in the infobox be fixed? The Jade Knight (talk) 08:36, 19 April 2008 (UTC)

Language code
Er....the ISO code given is wrong. "nrm" represents Narom language - see. As far as I know, Norman has not been assigned a separate code in ISO 693-3. Widsith (talk) 13:44, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
 * I went ahead and created a lang-roa-nor template for Norman. May not be official but it's the code Wiktionary uses. — Llywelyn II   16:53, 27 December 2014 (UTC)

Channel Islands: United Kingdom
I thought the Channel Islands were not part of the UK, but independent crown dependencies like the Isle of Man. The only thing the UK does for the islands is defence and other reserved matters depending on the issues involved e.g. Foreign affairs. I'm sure though a Crown Dependency is not the United Kingdom. Please look into it. 82.11.221.164 (talk) 08:46, 23 May 2008 (UTC)
 * Yes, the problem has been reflecting use in the bailiwicks and the survival of fossilised usage in the UK. I've rehierarchised the list to clarify the situation. Man vyi (talk) 06:34, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Number of speakers
So how many people speak Norman nowadays? Some figure needs to be in here. Funnyhat (talk) 21:46, 21 July 2010 (UTC)
 * Magène claims 20,000 speakers of Continental Norman. C'valyi d'Jade (talk) 05:46, 23 September 2010 (UTC)

"Most of part modern French and Norman is intercomprehensible"
Grammatically, this sentence doesn't make sense to me. I'd change it, but I have no idea how close modern French and Norman actually are. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.191.35.75 (talk) 12:11, 18 August 2011 (UTC)
 * It should be suppressed, because I do not think that somebody who accentuates French the Marseilles way would understand Norman French.Nortmannus (talk) 20:22, 13 February 2012 (UTC)

 * are you joking?

you try to read this==> http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=2j46AAAAcAAJ&pg=PP9&dq=Le+roman+de+Rou+et+des+ducs+de+Normandie&hl=it&sa=X&ei=GaWjT9ebLc7E4gSnib2iCQ&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=Le%20roman%20de%20Rou%20et%20des%20ducs%20de%20Normandie&f=false — Preceding unsigned comment added by Oidbeco (talk • contribs) 09:46, 4 May 2012 (UTC)
 * irrelevant, because Wace wrote in Old French, printed with some limited Norman influences.Nortmannus (talk) 10:50, 4 May 2012 (UTC)

Boucaner doesn't come from Norman, it come from Arawak
Perhaps Norman speakers brought the word Boucaner to Canada, but it's not a Norman word, see wikipedia entra on Buccaneer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buccaneer#History. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.173.78.131 (talk) 18:13, 14 September 2015 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 01:29, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

'Norman language' versus 'Norman French language'
Although I am not an expert, I object to the Norman language being suddenly labelled as 'only' a dialect of the French language in some parts of this page.

This is contrary to other statements in the article itself, as well as in other articles referring to other regional languages or dialects in France, and seems to be the intensive work of one particular user who seems to have some sort of agenda, apparently without concertation with other users/authors/editors.

The numerous recent changes in this and other pages are often poorly stated, and not always in line with the content into which they are landed, as well as showing what in my humble opinion is bias. [For the moment there is no way I want to start reversing out or rewriting/improving these numerous changes].

In addition it should be noted that the user in question, who was recently suspended for edit-warring, seems to be unwilling to enter into discussion with others (not me, cf. previous para), preferring to 'be bold'. -- jw (talk) 12:45, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Fellow-wikipedians, what are your reactions to all these recent changes ? -- jw (talk) 12:45, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I feel this situation needs review, for this and other affected pages.

 * Languages and dialects fall along a continuum and there is no precise definition that unambiguously separates the two, but this editor has been pushing a POV on a lot of articles mentioning the Norman language to highlight its Frenchness and minimize the contribution of Old Norse. Agricolae (talk) 16:53, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

i think these changes are needed. take this page as an example, it shows only words borrowed from old norse but completely ignore the vocabularies inherited from old french. it's just not thorough. while pages of dialects of other langue d'oil such as picard would show comparisons between standard french, old french and that regional dialect. it's inappropriate to exaggerate limited influence of nordic languages while overlooking the fact that it's a french dialect / dialect continuum. so consistency is needed. also editors of this page must first understand the concept 'dialect continuum' or have a fair knowledge of french language before making any objections. otherwise, these points are nothing more than personal imagination. Berserk Kerberos (talk) 17:45, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

 * It is also inappropriate to push a POV that downplays the Norse influence on Norman, based on your own personal opinion. Also, you don't get to decide who is allowed to edit a Wikipedia page. Agricolae (talk) 18:56, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

 * Please refer to my response to objections/insinuations re. understanding of French and/or dialect continua, below -- jw (talk) 21:36, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

Lists of words
All of these lists need sources, or they look like WP:OR. Agricolae (talk) 16:49, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

sources : http://www.atilf.fr/dect (run by University of Ottawa and University of Lorraine) http://txm.bfm-corpus.org/ ( run and supported by Agence National de la Recherche, Institut d'histoire des représentations, institute universitaire de France, école normale supérieure de lyon, Huma Num and CNRS) you can find add many more words to the table if you wish. and i'd appreciate your efforts in completing the list Berserk Kerberos (talk) 18:03, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

 * The linked sources, at least as far as I can see, do not contain a list of words in the Norman language that preserve Old French words lost in modern French. This appears to be you. doing your own research. Agricolae (talk) 18:50, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

thanks for your reply. sorry but you're wrong. first, these words are also listed in french version of wikipedia. second, you need to learn how to use both websites cited here. follow the instructions carefully when you use both databases. also i don't recommend using google translate. it's far from being accurate. Berserk Kerberos (talk) 18:53, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

 * Again, you don't seem to understand how Wikipedia actually works. Digging data out of a database is WP:Original Research, which is not permitted, and WP:CIRCULAR says that Wikipedia pages (whether in the same language or in another language) are not appropriate sources for other Wikipedia pages. Agricolae (talk) 19:08, 10 March 2020 (UTC).

however, this is also listed in french version of wikipedia. i'm simply copying this chunk of info. and pasting it in english version. i suppose all language versions of wikipedia are bound by the same set of rules right? since this table is approved in french version, i see no reason why english version should ban it Berserk Kerberos (talk) 19:11, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

 * I guess you didn't read it the first time: Just because you find material on a Wikipedia page doesn't mean its presence there is appropriate, approved, or consistent with policy.  If the French page contains unreferenced Original Research, it shouldn't.  It would be a violation of policy there, just as it would be a violation of policy here.  There is no special dispensation granted to unreferenced information "found on another Wikipedia page" that somehow allows it to be absolved of Wikipedia's standards for WP:Verifiability. Agricolae (talk) 19:21, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

 * sorry but you're taking the whole thing personally. this is not original research. french wikipedia also approves that this is not original research. i have to stop talking to you unless you become rational again. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Berserk Kerberos (talk • contribs) 19:38, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

 * Please don't stop talking to me! I had been pleased to see that conversations are now happening on the Talk page rather than disrupting the combined and consensual work of numerous other editors on the page. Please continue this progress: you could state your intentions on the other Talk pages before you make future changes. In addition, if you prefer, since you have been intensively editing several pages, we could transfer this discussion about your methods to your own talk page.-- jw (talk) 21:36, 10 March 2020 (UTC)
 * ''Quant à la question de la compéhension de la langue française (posée ci-dessus) ou bien celle du concept de continuum linguistique, je vous remercie d'arrêter vos insinuations, et de revenir à un dialogue respectueux, comme il se doit. Merci, ça suffit ! -- jw (talk) 21:36, 10 March 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Norman language


text: Category:People from Missouri

title: Category:People from Missouri


text: User talk:68.112.200.227

title: User talk:68.112.200.227


text:
The Dirty Fork

The Dirty Fork, also known simply as Restaurant Sketch, is a Monty Python sketch that appeared in episode 3 of the first series of the television series Monty Python's Flying Circus, and later in the film, And Now For Something Completely Different. It is notable for being the first Monty Python sketch wherein the characters react to the audience "booing" them.

Entertainment Weekly has ranked The Restaurant Sketch as one of Monty Python's top 20 sketches. In England, it is used in approved course materials for Key Stage 2 of the state school curriculum.

Synopsis
A man (Graham Chapman) and his wife (Carol Cleveland) are enjoying a night out at an expensive French restaurant. The man discovers that he has been given a dirty fork and politely asks Gaston the waiter to replace it.

Gaston (Terry Jones) apologizes profusely and runs to get the head waiter, Gilberto (Michael Palin). Gilberto arrives, demands that the entire washing-up staff be fired, tells Gaston to report this news to the manager immediately, and recoils in disgust at the fork.

The manager (Eric Idle) arrives, tells Gilberto to relax, then sits down at the table and apologizes "humbly, deeply, and sincerely" for the dirty fork. He becomes emotional when explaining the problems the restaurant staff has been suffering, and bursts into tears. Mungo the cook (John Cleese) enters, berating the couple for criticizing such a vulnerable man, and swings his cleaver onto their table. Gilberto clutches his head, complaining about his "war wound". The manager stabs himself in the stomach with the dirty fork, screaming "It's the end! The end!" and collapses to the ground dead.

Mungo lifts his knife over Chapman and cries, "Revenge!" Gilberto rounds the corner and grabs the angry cook just in time. "Mungo!" he gasps, "Mungo, never kill a customer!" Gilberto dies from his war wound. Mungo raises his knife again, but Gaston tackles him before he can kill Chapman. A caption reads, "And Now… The Punchline!"

"Lucky we didn't say anything about the dirty knife," Chapman says into the camera. The audience then boos as Chapman objects to it.

There are several changes to the sketch in the And Now For Something Completely Different version. The waiter is named "Giuseppe" instead of "Gaston". There's no audience and the actors do not boo when Chapman delivers the "punchline" which was changed slightly to "Lucky I didn't tell them about the dirty knife".

Writing style
This sketch reflects Python's thoughts about punch lines. The Monty Python troupe had decided from the start that they were going to throw away punchlines, and this was a play on the shows that would use corny lines like the dirty knife. Most Python sketches just end abruptly, and sometimes even characters say "What a stupid sketch" and walk out. In Monty Python Live in Aspen, Terry Gilliam explains:

Our first rule was: no punch lines... [some sketches] start brilliant, great acting, really funny sketch, but a punchline is just not as good as the rest of the sketch, so it kills the entire thing. That's why we eliminated them."

Ironically, the episode the sketch appeared in concludes with the sketch "Candid Photography" (better known as "Nudge Nudge"), which concludes with a punch line.

title: The Dirty Fork


text: File:Shaw Nature Preserve topo1.jpg

title: File:Shaw Nature Preserve topo1.jpg


text: Category:Missouri culture

title: Category:Missouri culture


text:
Yuen Wah

Yuen Wah (born Yung Kai-chi; 2 September 1950) is a Hong Kong action film actor, action choreographer, stuntman and martial artist who has appeared in over 160 films and over 20 television series.

Early life
Born Yung Kai-chi on 2 September 1950 in Hong Kong, Kai attended the China Drama Academy, a Peking opera school in Hong Kong in the late 1950s and 1960s. He was instructed by Master Yu Jim Yuen and became a member of the Seven Little Fortunes along with fellow students including Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung, Yuen Biao, Yuen Qiu and Corey Yuen. Like the other students, he took his sifu's given name – "Yuen". In his biography, Jackie Chan stated that Yuen Wah's martial arts ability was well respected among his fellow students. After leaving the opera school, many of the students entered the Hong Kong film industry. Yuen Wah was given an anglicised stagename, Sam Yuen, but like Yuen Biao (Bill Yuen / Jimmy Yuen), the name was not used. Rather than reverting to their birth names, both retained their opera school names, as did several other former students.

Career
Known for his agility and acrobatic skills, Yuen Wah began his film career working as Bruce Lee's stunt double in the films Fist of Fury (1972) and Enter the Dragon (1973). He also made his acting debut in Fist of Fury, as a Japanese man who asks Bruce Lee's character to crawl like a dog and is soundly beaten for it. He began to receive a number of roles in Shaw Brothers films.

Yuen's versatility, his lean, wiry frame and later, his distinctive moustache often saw him cast as the villain in most films. During the 1980s, he worked on several films with former classmates Jackie Chan, Sammo Hung and Yuen Biao, both in an action director / stunt co-ordinator capacity, and in acting roles as villainous characters. The films included Mr. Vampire (1985), My Lucky Stars (1985), Millionaire's Express (1986), Eastern Condors (1986), and Dragons Forever (1988).

During the 1990s, whilst still appearing in a number of films, Yuen began to focus on television series roles for TVB. In 1996, he starred as a Taoist priest fighting jiangshi vampires in the series The Night Journey. His comical and endearingly scrooge-like image earned him popularity on the Hong Kong television circuit. Since then, he has appeared in over 20 different television series.

In 2004, Yuen was cast as the Landlord in Stephen Chow's comedy film Kung Fu Hustle. During the 2005 Hong Kong Film Awards, his colleagues took the opportunity to award him with the award for Best Supporting Actor.

Yuen made his debut in an English language film in Aiming High in 1998. He appeared in another English language production, the 2008 Baz Luhrmann period film Australia, alongside Nicole Kidman and Hugh Jackman. He played a supporting role in the 2021 Marvel Cinematic Universe film Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings.

Yuen Wah has starred in more than 60 films and worked on over 160. In the early 1970s, Yuen worked as a stuntman and extra, later progressing to stunt coordinator / action director roles, as well as full-fledged acting parts.

During the 1980s he made a number of appearances, primarily as villainous characters in the films of his former-China Drama Academy friends, Sammo Hung, Jackie Chan and Yuen Biao.

From the mid-1990s, Yuen embarked on a television career in Hong Kong. To date, he has appeared in 23 different series for broadcaster TVB. He also appeared in a show for Taiwanese channel CTS – a remake of the film A Chinese Ghost Story titled Eternity: A Chinese Ghost Story.

Yuen is credited as an actor in over 180 films and as a martial arts director for over 40 films.

title: Yuen Wah


text:
Talk:GURPS

Fallout
Re GURPS Fallout: I don't think it was violence in the material that caused the falling out (no pun intended) between Interplay and SJG. Almafeta 02:44, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

It's not clear that there were "disagreements" between the two companies. Per the Daily Illuminators for March, 1997, Steve Jackson thought everything was going along fine until Interplay publicly announced they were dropping the "GURPS" part. 12.45.255.66 (talk) 17:52, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

SunDevil
The raid on the GURPS offices had nothing to do with Sand Devil operation, follow the link and see. —Wikijeff

 * Isn't it called Operation Sundevil? I had always heard they were specifically after the Cyberpunk author because he was a hacker, but since SJG was raided and all their files taken it had hurt the company financially until the investigtaion ended, which is why they sued for invasion of privacy and harrasment. So yes, it a way they were "involved" with Sundevil. I had also heard they raided the offices of Alternative Tentacles the record label of Jello Biafra at the same time which was in the same building as SJG. Cyberia23 18:26, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

Heres the relevant quote from the SJGames site linked in the dispute notice:

 * 5. This was part of Operation Sun Devil.
 * No it wasn't. Sun Devil was a totally separate project, aimed at credit card fraud. Because it had a neat name, it got a lot of headlines. Since computers were involved, some reporters got the two confused. The Secret Service helped the confusion along by refusing to comment on what was, or wasn't part of Sun Devil. Sun Devil was not a "hacker" investigation. So says Gail Thackeray, who was its spearhead.

How is this as a corrected paragraph?

 * GURPS also became part of the hacker sub-culture, when the company's Austin offices were raided by the Secret Service. The target was the author of GURPS Cyberpunk in relation to documents stolen from Bell South relating to the E911 Emergency Response system. The incident was directly contributory to the founding of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. A common error suggests that this raid was in fact part of Operation Sundevil and carried out by the FBI. Sundevil was in action at the same time, but was completely separate.

Brehaut 03:32, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Sounds alright to me. Just seems like a lot of confusion as to what really happened out there. Like I mentioned, I had always heard the Feds also raded Jello Biafra's record label at the same time, since SJG shared the same office building. That raid was supposedly over an indecency charge and had nothing to do with computer hacking. I guess they were trying to kill two birds with one stone that day. Cyberia23 15:58, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Seeing as nobody else commented, i went and made the change and removed the dispute warning. Also, the whole GURPS Concept section probably needs to be a bit refactored, its a mess of random paragraphs Brehaut 10:07, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

"overview of the GURPS mechanics" is too self-referential. i'm changing it to "Mechanics of the game" Blueaster 20:55, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

"Kromm Notes (3rd edition) The collected rulings of Dr. Kromm, GURPS Line Editor at Steve Jackson Games" - links to a site that is no longer valid. It should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ubrgeek (talk • contribs) 17:57, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

Commercial success?
Some discussion of the commercial success of the GURPS system would be a welcome addition. -Toptomcat 02:22, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

Reviews
Just a quick note to mention there is a review of first edition GURPs in WHite Dwarf (Magazine) #83 page 4. -Waza 13:34, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Other reviews to help aid this article. Will add when I get the chance. Web Warlock 12:41, 19 September 2007 (UTC)
 * http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/10/10852.phtml
 * http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/10/10731.phtml
 * http://www.rpg.net/reviews/archive/10/10646.phtml

 * Somebody might also check:
 * http://www.gamingreport.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Reviews&file=index&req=showcontent&id=1341
 * Goochelaar 17:04, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Research request
A request to search academic journals for GURPS has been received and completed. Results may be found here. Wish there was better news for you guys. /Blaxthos 00:31, 19 October 2007 (UTC)

Since 2007, things seem to have changed... Below are results from the first three pages of Google Scholar results. Several are conference papers and a book or two, but the journals include library science, education, philosophy, and design. Some are more passing references, but several of them focus specifically on GURPS. —Carter (talk) 13:26, 1 July 2021 (UTC)

 * Thanks for this research, Carter! I switched this to the Refideas template, as I am currently testing a new template on a small selection of articles, and when the editnotice goes live anyone who edits the article will get a notice about references on the talk page. :) See Template talk:Refideas editnotice if you want to give feedback to that. BOZ (talk) 13:53, 14 October 2023 (UTC)

Not the first commercially successful generic system
This article claimed that GURPS was the first commercially successful generic RPG system. I don't know about Supergame, but Chaosium and Hero Games had GURPS beat by 5 years, and both still have games on the market using that system. I reworded it as the most commercially successful such system, though even there we'd need some good solid references.DreamGuy (talk) 22:01, 1 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Champions may have been in print before GURPS, but the HERO System, as such, was first published in 1989. Basic Role-Playing wasn't published as a standalone game until just a few years ago; like Champions, it started out being genre-specific.  If we do get to count Champions and CoC, then by rights we should count Fantasy Trip as in equal fashion being GURPS' lineal predecessor ... which dates from 1980 if you hold with In The Labyrinth, and 1977 if you date from the publication of Melee.   Ravenswing   08:37, 2 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but no. BRP was, in fact, published as a standalone book in 1980. I don't know why you think it came out only recently. If we were to give the first date of the first game to use a similar system, that would be Runequest. The Hero System *book* was not released until after GURPS, but the Hero *system* itself was used in a wide variety of products before GURPS was released, and that's what that part of the article is talking about (needing separate systems for every game). Also, Champions *itself* started as genre-specific, but the system was developed from the ground up to be used for multiple genres - Fantasy Hero was originally going to be released first, Danger International and Justice Inc. came out with the Hero System also before GURPS did. So both by "first published generic game system" (BRP) and "system created to be used in multiple genres from day one and used in many published games" (Hero System), GURPS came only later.
 * Your argument for then including the Fantasy Trip as proof of GURPS being first doesn't work either, as it was neither generic (it and its predecessors were all fantasy-based, which does not distinguish it from Dungeons and Dragons' problems modeling other genres, which is, again, what the article is talking about) nor an example of many games in different genres being out at the same time using the same system. If you are comparing it to Champions and related products in that way, then the second game out using the similar system and a non-fantasy genre would be GURPS itself, which would mean it again still comes after BRP and the Hero System.
 * Please do not revert to historically incorrect version of events to give GURPS credit for something it does not deserve any which way you decide to measure things. DreamGuy (talk) 20:12, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

 * Additionally, even if you deny the existence of BRP in 1980, there's always it's expansion, Worlds of Wonder, which is multi-genre like the Hero System's various games and still came out before GURPS. DreamGuy (talk) 20:27, 4 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Now with reliable source added, as we should have had many years ago. DreamGuy (talk) 20:56, 4 July 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:GURPS


text: User talk:198.82.78.167

title: User talk:198.82.78.167


text:
Mucin

Mucins are a family of high molecular weight, heavily glycosylated proteins (glycoconjugates) produced by epithelial tissues in most animals. Mucins' key characteristic is their ability to form gels; therefore they are a key component in most gel-like secretions, serving functions from lubrication to cell signalling to forming chemical barriers. They often take an inhibitory role. Some mucins are associated with controlling mineralization, including nacre formation in mollusks, calcification in echinoderms and bone formation in vertebrates. They bind to pathogens as part of the immune system. Overexpression of the mucin proteins, especially MUC1, is associated with many types of cancer.

Although some mucins are membrane-bound due to the presence of a hydrophobic membrane-spanning domain that favors retention in the plasma membrane, most mucins are secreted as principal components of mucus by mucous membranes or are secreted to become a component of saliva.

Genes and proteins
Human mucins include genes with the HUGO symbol MUC 1 through 22. Of these mucins, the following classes have been defined by localization:

 * Secreted mucins in humans, with their chromosomal location, repeat size in amino acids (aa), whether they are gel-forming (Y) or not (N), and their tissue expression.
 * Membrane-bound (transmembrane) mucins: MUC1, MUC3A, MUC3B, MUC4, MUC12, MUC13, MUC15, MUC16, MUC17, MUC21 (formerly C6orf205), MUC22 (highly polymorphic )

The major secreted airway mucins are MUC5AC and MUC5B, while MUC2 is secreted mostly in the intestine but also in the airway. MUC7 is the major salivary protein.

Protein structure
Mature mammalian mucins are composed of two distinct regions:

 * The amino- and carboxy-terminal regions are very lightly glycosylated, but rich in cysteines. The cysteine residues participate in establishing disulfide linkages within and among mucin monomers.
 * A large central region ("PTS domain") formed of multiple tandem repeats of 10 to 80 residue sequences in which up to half of the amino acids are serine or threonine. This area becomes saturated with hundreds of O-linked oligosaccharides. N-linked oligosaccharides are also found on mucins, but in less abundance than O-linked sugars.

Evolutionary classification
The functional classification does not correspond to an exact evolutionary relationship, which is still incomplete and ongoing. Known-related groups include:

 * The gel-forming mucins (2, 5AC, 5B, 6, 19) are related both to each other and to otogelin and von Willebrand Factor (PTHR11339). Four of these occur in a well-conserved gene cluster (at 11p.15.5 in humans).
 * The EGF-like domain containing mucins. These include MUC3(A,B), MUC4, MUC12, MUC13, and MUC17.
 * Some EGF-like mucins, plus MUC1 and MUC16, carry SEA domains, a vertebrate invention. It is unclear whether this points to a common origin among these transmembrane mucins.
 * MUC21 and MUC22 are related to each other by sharing a C-terminal domain (PF14654). They also occur in a human gene cluster on 6p21.33.
 * MUC7 is a recent invention in placental mammals. It started as a copy in the secretory calcium-binding phosphoprotein (SCPP) gene cluster and rapidly gained PTS repeats.

Function in humans
Mucins have been found to have important functions in defense against bacterial and fungal infections. MUC5B, the predominant mucin in the mouth and female genital tract, has been shown to significantly reduce attachment and biofilm formation of Streptococcus mutans, a bacterium with the potential to form cavities. Unusually, MUC5B does not kill the bacteria but rather maintains it in the planktonic (non-biofilm) phase, thus maintaining a diverse and healthy oral microbiome. Similar effects of MUC5B and other mucins have been demonstrated with other pathogens, such as Candida albicans, Helicobacter pylori, and even HIV. In the mouth, mucins can also recruit anti-microbial proteins such as statherins and histatine 1, which further reduces risk of infection.

Eleven mucins are expressed by the eye surface epithelia, goblet cells and associated glands, even though most of them are expressed at very low levels. They maintain wetness, lubricate the blink, stabilize the tear film, and create a physical barrier to the outside world.

Glycosylation and aggregation
Mucin genes encode mucin monomers that are synthesized as rod-shaped apomucin cores that are post-translationally modified by exceptionally abundant glycosylation.

The dense "sugar coating" of mucins gives them considerable water-holding capacity and also makes them resistant to proteolysis, which may be important in maintaining mucosal barriers.

Mucins are secreted as massive aggregates of proteins with molecular masses of roughly 1 to 10 million Da. Within these aggregates, monomers are linked to one another mostly by non-covalent interactions, although intermolecular disulfide bonds may also play a role in this process.

Secretion
Upon stimulation, MARCKS (myristylated alanine-rich C kinase substrate) protein coordinates the secretion of mucin from mucin-filled vesicles within the specialized epithelial cells. Fusion of the vesicles to the plasma membrane causes release of the mucin, which as it exchanges Ca2+ for Na+ expands up to 600 fold. The result is a viscoelastic product of interwoven molecules which, combined with other secretions (e.g., from the airway epithelium and the submucosal glands in the respiratory system), is called mucus.

Clinical significance
Increased mucin production occurs in many adenocarcinomas, including cancers of the pancreas, lung, breast, ovary, colon and other tissues. Mucins are also overexpressed in lung diseases such as asthma, bronchitis, chronic obstructive pulmonary disease (COPD) or cystic fibrosis. Two membrane mucins, MUC1 and MUC4 have been extensively studied in relation to their pathological implication in the disease process. Mucins are under investigation as possible diagnostic markers for malignancies and other disease processes in which they are most commonly over- or mis-expressed.

Abnormal deposits of mucin are responsible for the non-pitting facial edema seen in untreated hypothyroidism. This edema is seen in the pretibial area as well.

Non-vertebrate mucins
Beyond the better-studied vertebrate mucins, other animals also express (not necessarily related) proteins with similar properties. These include:

 * Drosophila is known to express mucin proteins containing PTS-rich repeats.
 * Trypanosoma cruzi express cell-surface mucins (PF01456).

Cosmetic use
Use of skincare products containing snail secretions of mucin have resulted in pain, swelling, and oozing. Counterfeit versions of a Korean snail mucin product called COSRX have been selling online, putting users at risk.

title: Mucin


text:
Talk:Billy Steinberg

{{ {{DYK talk|1 December|2004|entry=...that songwriter Billy Steinberg spent more than a year trying to find someone to record his song Like a Virgin before it was accepted by Madonna?}} {{WikiProject banner shell|class=Start|blp=yes|listas=Steinberg, Billy| {{WikiProject Biography }} }}
 * musician-work-group=yes

Untitled
Why must it say Jewish? What is the significance? Kraften 02:45, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

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text:
Raven Arms

Raven Arms was a firearms manufacturer established in 1970 by firearms designer George Jennings. The Gun Control Act of 1968 prohibiting the importation of inexpensive handguns prompted Jennings to design the MP-25, a .25-caliber semi-automatic pistol, and enter the firearms business. Raven has been referred to as the original "Ring of Fire" company, a term describing companies known for producing inexpensive Saturday night special handguns.

Raven kept manufacturing costs to a minimum by building their guns from injection-molded Zamak, a zinc alloy.

History
Before Jennings developed the MP-25, a friend who owned a pawn shop that sold firearms complained to Jennings that his supply of inexpensive imported handguns (typically made by Röhm Gesellschaft) had been cut off due to the Gun Control Act of 1968, resulting in a significant loss of sales. At the time, Jennings operated a machine shop that made parts for Southern California aerospace companies. Jennings established Raven Arms to produce the first Raven, the P-25 for his friend, and over the next 20 years, the company sold approximately two million variations of the pistols. The first variation of the Raven had a large button sliding safety on the side, and was manufactured in Baldwin Park, California. The second variation changed the safety to a smaller sliding safety, but retained the designation of P-25, and was manufactured in Industry, California (as were all other subsequent Ravens). The third variation changed the design of the pistol slide serrations and was designated the MP-25. The fourth and final variation of the pistol removed the sliding safety and changed it to an upward moving disk safety and retained the designation MP-25. In parallel with this growth, gun-control advocates started pushing legislation in Washington, in state capitals, and in city councils to ban inexpensive weapons.

In November 1991, a fire destroyed the Raven Arms factory. Jennings retired and sold his designs to Phoenix Arms. Phoenix was owned in equal shares by Jennings's ex-wife, his children, four of his grandchildren, and by Raven's former general manager. Phoenix continued to produce the MP-25 as the "Model Raven" and introduced a magazine safety disconnect which rendered the pistol unable to fire without a magazine inserted Phoenix was run under the management of Jennings's son Bruce, and developed additional .22 and .25-caliber pistols, called the HP22 and HP25.

Description and Operation

The MP-25 can hold six .25 ACP rounds in the magazine, plus one in the chamber, and is finished in chrome, satin nickel or black. The grips can be either wood or imitation mother-of-pearl handles. There is a similar model called the Raven Arms P-25. Both have similar blowback and envelope designs and are essentially identical firearms.

Early models have a sliding bar safety that will not allow the pistol to chamber a round or cock the striker if the safety is not in the fire position when the slide is pulled back. Later models have a push up safety that will not allow the action to be cycled at all when engaged.

The firing pin also acts as the ejector. It protrudes from its hole when the slide nears the end of its rearward travel, contacting the spent case and sending it up and out of the pistol. The gun's fixed sights are cast into the top of the slide. The trigger pull is fairly stiff, at about 8 pounds, 6 ounces.

Conflicting Views
There are conflicting views on the MP-25. Critics refer to it by the pejorative term "Saturday night special", as it is both easily concealed and affordable enough that the poor can afford to purchase it. However, Roy Innis, president of the activist group Congress of Racial Equality (CORE), rejected the pejorative term: "To make inexpensive guns impossible to get is to say that you're putting a money test on getting a gun. It's racism in its worst form." Some advocates of the pistol say that it is reliable, despite its low cost. Association of Firearm and Tool Mark Examiners (AFTE) reported that a Phoenix Arms Model Raven with an altered or damaged sear tip discharged unintentionally when the safety was moved "off" after the trigger had been pulled with the safety "on".

Criminal uses

 * An MP-25 was used in the 24 April 1998 Parker Middle School dance shooting. The shooter shot two teachers (one fatally) and two students with his father's pistol.
 * Serial killer Robert Lee Yates shot his victims with two MP-25s.
 * Mark Orrin Barton used an MP-25 and several other handguns in his killing spree in Atlanta and Stockbridge, Georgia, on July 29, 1999, before killing himself. The MP-25 had been purchased from a pawnshop by someone else in 1991.

title: Raven Arms


text:
Saucy Jacky postcard

The "Saucy Jacky" postcard is the name given to a postcard received by the Central News Agency of London and postmarked 1 October 1888. The author of the postcard claims to have been the unidentified serial killer known as Jack the Ripper.

Because so many hoax letters were received by Scotland Yard, the press and others, it is unknown whether this was an authentic letter written by the Whitechapel murderer. The postcard did contain information deemed compelling enough to lead investigators to publish a facsimile of the communication in hopes that someone might recognise the handwriting.

Text
Postmarked and received on 1 October 1888, the postcard mentions that the two victims murdered on 30 September, Elizabeth Stride and Catherine Eddowes, were both killed in the early morning of 30 September and that the author had insufficient time to sever his victim's ears to send to the police as promised in a previous letter received by the Central News Agency. The lobe and auricle of Eddowes' right ear was found detached at the crime scene as a result of facial mutilations that the killer had performed, although this was not public knowledge.

The text of the postcard reads: "I was not codding dear old Boss when I gave you the tip, you'll hear about Saucy Jacky's work tomorrow double event this time number one squealed a bit couldn't finish straight off. Had not time to get ears off for police thanks for keeping last letter back till I got to work again. Jack the Ripper"

Some authors have argued that the postcard was sent before the murders were publicised, making it unlikely that any hoaxer would have such knowledge of the crime; however the correspondence was postmarked more than 24 hours after the killings had occurred, and long after many details of the murders were known by journalists and residents of the area.

Later revelations
Police officials later claimed to have identified a specific journalist as the author of this postcard and the earlier "Dear Boss" letter. In 1931, journalist Fred Best of The Star claimed he and a colleague at the newspaper had written all the letters signed "Jack the Ripper" in order to "keep the business alive".

In the years after the Ripper murders, the Saucy Jacky postcard disappeared from the police files. Although the "Dear Boss" letter was recovered in 1987, the "Saucy Jacky" postcard is still missing.

In 2018, a forensic linguistic analysis found strong linguistic evidence suggesting that this postcard and the "Dear Boss" letter were written by the same person.

title: Saucy Jacky postcard


text:
Category:Business models

Articles relating to business models, the rationale of how an organization creates, delivers, and captures value, in economic, social, cultural or other contexts. The process of business model construction and modification is also called business model innovation and forms a part of business strategy.

title: Category:Business models


text:
Talk:Chatham Dockyard

Expanding this article
This could do with expansion, especially about the dockyard at the time of the Napoleonic wars. Marc Isambard Brunel built steam-powered sawmills, parts of which survive. Indeed all the articles about the British Naval Dockyards could do with expansion for this period. See Portsmouth Block Mills for what might be possible. When I get a minute I will add something. Apwoolrich 08:48, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Chatham Dockyard Oral History Project
I am currently conducting an oral history study of Chatham Dockyard and have set up my own website. I wonder if it would be suitable for inclusion on this part of Wikipedia? http://chathamdockyard.net.

Thanks

Chatham Dockyard Oral History Project 12:22, 2 January 2007 (UTC)

Importance rating
Can I query this judgement. The spec says 'High:Subject contributes a depth of knowledge'. ClemRutter 21:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 * As the economic driver of North Kent for 400+ years.
 * As the cause of the depletion of the wealden old forest.
 * As the cause of the last successful incursion of a foreign force onto the British Mainland.
 * As the site of the construction of Nelson's flagship- the place where Drake learned to sail.
 * The site of the first major iron ship HMS Warrior.
 * A site with the prototype structure for all railway termini.
 * A site where the first Union Flag was sewn.
 * First sea launched aircraft of HMS Africa.
 * Site displaying all the Georgian and Victorian industrial crafts- spawning a plethora of independant cratsmen and workshops, providing the industial base needed for aircraft building et c.

 * sorry are you saying it should receive a higher rating within "Wiki Project Kent" or "Wiki Project Military History" - both projects have their own importance scale. IMHO WW2 and Kent would be "high" or "top" within their respective projects. While the list above is true, in the big scheme of things, the question is how important it is within that project, for example, WP:Kent is relatively new and hasn't got far yet (ie getting key articles up to GA or even FA status) so ...... Pickle 03:10, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

 * just opening a dialogue on Wiki Project Kent. I always am concerned that the 'Darling Buds of May' POV pervades and work on Kent, and the 'White Heat of Technology' POV needs to be put. We have a county 1.5 times bigger than Luxembourg and within it a complex economy- but how is that presented 'Garden of England'- not the 'Birthplace of Portland Cement'. HM Chatham being MOD, has been shrouded in secrecy- so I think that classifying higher would lead to balance ClemRutter 09:00, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

 * a lot of the maps that jackyr: asks for are published in Keith Gulvins, Fort Amherst brief History and Guide- credited to Medway Military Research Group (undated but after 1982). They may agree to a CC attribution licence.
 * ClemRutter 09:01, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

 * Thats a good point, and i tend to agree with you. I by no means want to make out Kent is some kind of idyllic rural paradise only, but in the bigger scheme of things, at the current point of time, we've not got beyond the big towns/cities and Kent article. I'll up rate it to a mid rating ;) Pickle 17:09, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes but where is it ?
I was thinking "but where is it" as I read the article. Needs map(s) to locate it within Europe/UK and then closeup. Necessary to show the strategic location. Rcbutcher (talk) 13:58, 15 August 2008 (UTC)
 * Added position within Kent (also shows the English Channel as well), don't think it needs position within Europe - scale issues would need a large map - overpowering the article. DavidAnstiss (talk) 18:46, 8 January 2014 (UTC)

Maps of the dockyard?
Can we get maps of the dockyard at various times? Particularly of the various slipways and drydocks.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 01:35, 8 September 2015 (UTC)

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School bus contractor

A school bus contractor is a private company or proprietorship that provides student transport services to a school district or non-public school. Of the 450,000 school buses operating in the United States, it is estimated that approximately 39% are operated by school bus contractors. In Canada (with some still operated by the school boards) and the United Kingdom, almost all school transportation is performed by contractors.

A school bus contractor may range in size from an individual driver with a single bus, to a small company serving a single school or district, to a large multi-national company with as many as 60,000 buses.

Major school bus contractors currently operating in the United States and Canada include First Student, National Express, and Student Transportation Inc.

title: School bus contractor


text:
Timeline of the history of Islam

This timeline of Islamic history relates the Gregorian and Islamic calendars in the history of Islam. This timeline starts with the lifetime of Muhammad, which is believed by non- Muslims to be when Islam started, though not by Muslims.

Broad periods (Gregorian and Islamic dates)

 * Muhammad and the Rashidun Caliphs
 * 6th century CE (13 BH – 23 BH)

 * The Umayyad Caliphate, the Abbasid Caliphate and its fragmentation, the Mamluk Sultanate, the Delhi Sultanate
 * 7th century CE (23 BH – 81 AH)
 * 8th century CE (81 AH – 184 AH)
 * 9th century CE (184 AH – 288 AH)
 * 10th century CE (288 AH – 391 AH)
 * 11th century CE (391 AH – 494 AH)
 * 12th century CE (494 AH – 597 AH)
 * 13th century CE (597 AH – 700 AH)
 * 14th century CE (700 AH – 803 AH)

 * Regional empires and dynasties (Ottoman Empire, Safavid Empire, Mughal Empire)
 * 15th century CE (803 AH – 906 AH)
 * 16th century CE (906 AH – 1009 AH)
 * 17th century CE (1009 AH – 1112 AH)
 * 18th century CE (1112 AH – 1215 AH)
 * 19th century CE (1215 AH – 1318 AH)

 * Final period of colonialism and time of postcolonial nation-states
 * 20th century CE (1318 AH – 1421 AH)
 * 21st century CE (1421 AH – present)

Islamic centuries to Gregorian

 * Islamic centuries to corresponding Gregorian years
 * 1st century AH (622 – 719 CE)
 * 2nd century AH (719 – 816)
 * 3rd century AH (816 – 913)
 * 4th century AH (913 – 1009)
 * 5th century AH (1009 – 1106)
 * 6th century AH (1106 – 1203)
 * 7th century AH (1203 – 1299)
 * 8th century AH (1299 – 1397)
 * 9th century AH (1397 – 1495)
 * 10th century AH (1495 – 1591)
 * 11th century AH (1591 – 1688)
 * 12th century AH (1688 – 1785)
 * 13th century AH (1785 – 1883)
 * 14th century AH (1883 – 1980)
 * 15th century AH (1980 – 2077)

title: Timeline of the history of Islam


text:
User talk:Silvanus

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Hope you like it here, and stick around.

Here are some tips to help you get started:

 * To sign your posts (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).
 * Try the Tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the test area.
 * If you need help, post a question at the Help Desk
 * Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
 * Remember Neutral point of view
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck!

[[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 02:53, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Silvanus


text:
Talk:List of South Park adults

Does Tweek belong on this list? After all, he was a major character during the 6th season. Redfarmer 02:54, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Spoiler?
Does anyone think that having god, as well as his picture on this page constitutes a potential spoiler? Certainly I wouldn't have laughed so heartily the first time I saw his first appearence had I known what he looked like before hand. Maybe there should be a spoiler tag at the top of the section, but I can't decide for sure. Thoughts, anyone?--expensivehat 22:46, 15 June 2006 (UTC)

Ms. Ellen
I deleted her off of this page, since she is not a recurring character. She appeared in a single episode, died, and has yet to be mentioned again. Kyint 17:32, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

Officer Barbrady
I think this character needs to be expanded quite a bit. Mr.Derp' has a longer description than Officer Barbrady and Barbrady appears in at least 20 episodes. --XxNeXuSxX 16:24, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

 * 42, 24 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 * He was referred to as Token Black again in "Wing", so I suspect that his last name has been changed.

 * His name is Token Black, its the most recent name he has been given and it makes the most sence, I'm changing it to Token Black (formerly Token Williams).

tities

other characters
Who actually should be on this page?

I've got a couple of suggestions, but I'm not sure about them...

 * Ticket seller at Bijou (is this the same guy who was the squirt leader at the jewish scout camp?)
 * The news anchor (Tom, I believe)
 * Sally Struthers
 * Satan
 * Saddam Hussein
 * Scott (seen twice, I believe)
 * God (seen twice, heard one more time)

Satan and Saddam should be on the list because of their majoe role in the movie

Is it dr. Mephisto or dr. Mephesto? I think his first name is Alphonse, but I'm not sure.

 * I agree that the ticket guy and the news achor should be on the list (they have both appeared in multiple episodes), but scott tenerman and god have only been in two, i don't think that qualifies as "recurring". Satan and Saddam possibly, since they do appear fairly often. Sally Struthers hasn't appeared very much, plus she's a real person. And it is Dr. Alphonse Mephisto. Lachatdelarue (talk) 17:53, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * What about the bartender? He appears number of times. Also, should there be a section for Generic characters? There seem to be quite a few of them. Sally Struthers has appeared thrice. First she was only in a commercial, than she appeared on both Starvin' Marvin episodes. Saddam has appeared quite a few times. Twice in Canada, in the movie, once in hell and once in heaven, at least. Scott wasn't referring to Scott Tenerman, who appeared only once, rather I was thinking of Scott the Dick from Canada. --AVainio 21:38, 26 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * I think we need some more input on how many episodes a character needs to have appeared in before they are considered "recurring". We could also have a section on "other notable characters" to cover the characters that, while not recurring, were central to at least one episode. Lachatdelarue (talk) 00:45, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Considering SP is up to 128 episodes I think recurring would be at least 5 times or more. Any less and they're occasional/rare characters. Scott & God are not recurring characters. Cburnett 01:00, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Also to consider is how often they appear. If they appeared in a few episodes in season X but no where else then that's not recurring, just 15 minutes of fame. :) Cburnett 01:01, 27 Jan 2005 (UTC)

The movie theatre ticket seller has been in atleast 5 episodes, he plays a relatively large role in "803 - Passion of the Jew". He also appears in minor roles in "609 - Free Hat" amongst others.

Move article
I think we should just drop the "recurring" for "Minor" where a minor character is not: Stan, Kyle, Kenny, Cartman, Butters, or Tweek. Opposed? Cburnett 04:29, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Chef
Seems like he should have his own article. Some of the characters who do are only on once or twice a season.

Sexual Harassment Panda and other minor characters
There needs to be a page for minor (one appearance) characters, there is currently no page for minor characters on Wikipedia. Jeffy the dancing duck, the SHP and similar characters would be a perfect fit for this potential article.

Jimmy
Should Jimmy be considered a minor character? He is picking up importance in the new season and even had his own episode, I think he should be considered a main character now as alot about his personality is known, etc.

The Country Guy
Should the redheaded war supporter from "I'm a Little Bit Country" be added to this list? He's seen quite often. I just can't find any references to his name.

 * He's called Skeeter.

Mr. Garrison 18:52, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Big Gay Al
Does anyone know whether the character of Big Gay Al is based on Alan Sues? --Angr/undefined 21:33, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Redundant Token article of redundancy
As Token's main article is more or less exactly the same as his section on this page, is it really necessary to have them in both places? Maybe we could shorten the length of his subsection on this page and encourage people to click on the link to the full article for more information? ekedolphin 05:51, 21 October 2005 (UTC)

Redirecting Timmy?
Why Timmy should redirects here? There are many Timmys arround the world. Such as: --성혀니 06:29, 28 October 2005 (UTC)
 * Timmy Turner (The Fairly OddParents character, Fictional)
 * Timmy (The Ugly Little Boy character, Fictional)
 * Timmy Timpson (Spoilt Bastard character, Fictional)
 * Timmy (Winx Club character, A Red Fountain specialist, Fictional)
 * Timmy Mallett (Former children's TV presenter and broadcaster, UK)
 * Timmy Dooley (Irish politician)
 * Timmy Gatling (American musician)
 * Timmy Simons (Belgian midfielder)

Jimmy's origins
Is it true that the creators of the show modeled Jimmy after Cousin Geri from The Facts of Life? Mike H (Talking is hot) 15:23, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

Starvin' Marvin
I don't know anything about South Park, but I think this belongs here. Could somebody more informed please check it for accuracy and put it wherever it goes on this page? - Pasiphae 08:36, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

"Starvin' Marvin is the name the boys give to an Ethiopian kid that has been shipped by mistake instead of a "Taiko" sport watch for the donation Stan has made from his mother's credit card in Episode 109. Starvin' Marvin returns in Episode 311: Starvin' Marvin in Space. Marvin then tries to rescue his Ethiopian tribe from the "evil" Catholic missionaries by sending them to the planet Marklar, a planet situated in another dimension and which is described as the only place in the universe that remains unknown to Catholics."

 * I'll have to watch that episode again, but I don't remember the Catholic missionaries being referred to as "evil". Can anyone confirm this?  --JJLatWiki 01:11, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

Image copyright violations
This article is making illegal use of South Park images. It can be argued that a screenshot is fair use, but to crop out a single character from a frame or otherwise reproduce a South Park character without permission is in direct violation of copyright law. Someone may want to take it upon themselves to remove the offending pictures, like this one. —RaD Man (talk) 11:10, 17 November 2005 (UTC) no

how is jesus affending? -amber

Jimmy ("... Family Guy, a show that Trey Parker and Matt Stone hate")
Posting because I'm not sure if it should be removed or not. I've found little evidence to suggest Matt Stone and Trey Parker actually hate the show. There's been a total of one interview where they expressed dislike toward the show and it wasn't direct dislike, just them saying they didn't like to be compared to it. Also, it becomes ambiguous for the fact that Trey and Matt have been know to hate practically everything, even insulting/parodying things they support or like. In a recent interview by Isaac Hayes, he said something to the effect that nobody should take the shit Trey and Matt say seriously which I think is relevant here. I don't think that opinion which hasn't really become fact yet should be included in the description, simply that this may be a reason for the change, in my opinion more likely for disambiguation than any beef between the shows.

sry....but i hate family guy. it makes no since! -amber

 * I agree. Although the South Park articles are all full of speculation.  A lot of very obviously wrong.  Much of the rest is good but just speculation.  --JGGardiner 07:07, 2 March 2006 (UTC)

I think it should be removed. Unless someone can come up with a direct quote, or at least supporting evidence.

Cartoon Wars Part I and Cartoon Wars Part II evidence enough? Help plz 18:23, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
 * No. Satirizing Family Guy doesn't entail hating it. Angr (t • c) 21:17, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Kenny's sister
Kenny sister also appears in "cartmanland" she is walking alongside kenny's family, i think this scene was reused for "best friends forever"

First appearance
Wouldn't it be good to state the episode of every characters first appearance. Also to state all episodes of a character's appearance if thay are few.

Randy?
How is it that characters like Gregory and the Christina Aguilera Monsters wound up in the "Recurring Characters" part of the template boxout, complete with their own articles, but Randy, arguably the most popular of the adults in the show, hasn't got his own article? --L T Dangerous 20:30, 6 May 2006 (UTC)

Now he has. Mr. Garrison 15:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC) See Randy and Sharon Marsh.

Jimbo Kern
What is the evidence that Jimbo is Randy's half brother? I always assumed that since he's Stan's uncle, but his last name isn't Marsh, he's Sharon's brother. Is there any episode where his relationship to Stan's parents is clarified? Angr (talk • contribs) 09:08, 8 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Try searching the FAQ on www.southparkstudios.com It's mentioned there that Matt & Tray said it in an interview or something. --Bahati 21:30, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

Jimbo and Ned
There are many now-defunct links that link to "Jimbo and Ned" instead of "Jimbo Kern and Ned Gerblansky." Just pointing it out. 66.229.160.94 18:43, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

Timmy
I will quote what this article says about the pronunciation of the character Timmy by himself. "He can usually only say his own name, a garbled line that sounds like "livin' a lie". When Timmy pronounces his own name, it is usually either a very loud, clear and quick shout - sounding very similar to what a mentally handicapped person would sound like.  Other times, he pronounces it very quietly, almost like a question.  Either way you perceive it, it sounds very much like he is saying Timmy!  I don’t understand how it sounds anything like "Living a lie".  I think that opinion should be deleted. IbogaShrub 19:44, 14 August 2006 (UTC)

Minor Characters in South Park
Just made this article, thought we could move some characters to it and merge minor characters into it instead of here.
 * Mr. Garrison 21:19, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Don't see a problem with that for the most part. Some of the character articles are far too descriptive and unencylopedic and some work needs to be done on it. A whole page is devoted to some characters where little more than a paragraph is necessary. Example: Scott Tenorman was in what, one, two episodes? I support the merges of minor characters as long as the information merged in isn't excessively long. Radagast83 22:20, 20 October 2006 (UTC)

Sounds good to me. Many of these character descriptions are based purely on speculation and have no real grounds. The Goth Kids, for example, don't have names, yet their article gives them specific names. Tweeks Coffee 18:55, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

I created the Goth Kids article, they do have names. You just have to pay attention to episodes they are in and read the right FAQ.
 * Mr. Garrison 18:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
 * They are in what? Attribution please.  It's not enough for *US* to hear their names, a published work or some sort (or offical website) would be acceptable. Radagast83 21:31, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Also, you're doing a good job so far. Please start moving and removing/redirecting the appropriate characters from the list/pages. Radagast83 06:44, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I looked at all three appearances of the goth kids on www.spscriptorium.net and found nothing about their names. Once again, the only one is Henrietta who's mom called her by name.  If you could please provide a link the FAQs where this was information was provided.  Whether we actually include it or not, I'm curious to see where people are getting this info. Tweeks Coffee 18:47, 29 October 2006 (UTC)

title: Talk:List of South Park adults


text:
Canicattì massacre

The Canicattì massacre (or Canicattì slaughter) was a massacre that occurred in Canicattì, Italy following its capture by American forces. During the invasion of Sicily in July 1943, eight unarmed Italian civilians were killed by U.S. troops. The town of Canicattì had already surrendered when U.S. troops entered, following heavy German bombardment during their withdrawal.

History
Upon arrival, U.S. troops received a report that civilians were looting a bombed factory and filling up buckets with the factory's products: food and liquid soap. At around six o'clock in the evening, Lieutenant Colonel George Herbert McCaffrey, the military governor of Palermo, and some military police arrived at the factory. McCaffrey fired into the crowd after it had failed to disperse. At least eight civilians, including an eleven-year-old girl, were killed though the exact number of casualties is uncertain.

McCaffrey, 63, died of a heart attack in New Jersey on January 25, 1954. He'd been undergoing treatment for tuberculosis at the time of his death.

The incident remained virtually unknown until Joseph S. Salemi of New York University, whose father witnessed it, publicized information about it.

title: Canicattì massacre