text:
Talk:Cornelius Vanderbilt

dupl
1. change "in 1650 as an indentured servant in 1650" to "as an indentured servant in 1650". 2. "eventually added to Aertson's village name" --> to Aertson's name, not village name

Semi-protected edit request on 12 April 2015
Please change "(m. 1869—1877; his death)" to "(m. 1869—1877; her death)" because his spouse was a woman.

107.77.87.91 (talk) 02:07, 12 April 2015 (UTC)
 * this refers to when Vanderbilt himself died, not his wife Snuggums (talk / edits) 02:50, 12 April 2015 (UTC)

Article quoted in citation #3 is quoted incorrectly.
Early in the article, there is a quotation. "Contemporaries, too, often hated or feared Vanderbilt or at least considered him an unmannered brute. While Vanderbilt could be a rascal, combative and cunning, he was much more a builder and a wrecker....being honorable, shrewd, and hard-working."[3]

I have checked the source of that quotation, Journal of American History (2011) 98 (2): 544. doi: 10.1093/jahist/jar305, online (http://jah.oxfordjournals.org/content/98/2/544.1.full). The person who added the quotation to the Vanderbilt article has copied the quotation incorrectly. It should read, "Contemporaries, too, often hated or feared Vanderbilt or at least considered him an unmannered brute. While Vanderbilt could be a rascal, combative and cunning, he was much more a builder than a wrecker....being honorable, shrewd, and hard-working."[3]

The discrepancy comes in the phrase, "builder and a wrecker". The original reads, "builder THAN a wrecker" (I have added uppercase for emphasis.) In the original, with "than" serving as a comparative, the quote makes sense, contrasting "builder" and "wrecker". In the incorrect quote, "builder and a wrecker" the contrast is gone and the resulting phrase is an oxymoron. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.194.86.30 (talk) 19:58, 14 January 2016 (UTC)
 * So fix it. Esrever (klaT) 20:45, 14 January 2016 (UTC)

GA nomination
i'm nominating for GA since the revscore indicates GA https://ores.wmflabs.org/scores/enwiki/wp10/708842931/ -- Duckduckstop (talk) 18:19, 26 March 2016 (UTC)
 * That obviously overlooked the Refimprove section in "Death and legacy"; having such tags in articles at the time of nomination is an automatic fail per WP:WIAGA. The "Ancestry" and "Descendants" section are also completely unreferenced. Big problem there. It would be nice to have this be a GA someday, but it's too soon now and needs more referencing. I've reverted the nomination for now. It is at best a C-class article at the moment, and would need to have at least one in-text citation per paragraph supporting article content to even be a B-class article. Snuggums (talk / edits) 18:39, 26 March 2016 (UTC)

Frank Armstrong Crawford Vanderbilt
Even though she had a very untypical name for a woman, she was! Please correct the pronoun on the Vanderbilt overview (right side) accordingly! — Preceding unsigned comment added by 141.23.93.62 (talk) 13:38, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * There's nothing wrong with the pronoun. It indicates that their marriage ended with his, Cornelius', death, not hers, Frank's. He died before she did, so the marriage ended with his death. It has nothing to do with her name, and none of us are confused about what her gender was. Esrever (klaT) 14:03, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * This is not the first reader who has mentioned they are confused by our presentation. I think using names rather than pronouns will avoid this. - Nunh-huh 19:15, 25 July 2016 (UTC)
 * Works for me. Esrever (klaT) 20:19, 25 July 2016 (UTC)

Robber baron
Robber baron and thief, exploiter and profiteer. Conveniently omitted from the article. Has the spirit of this man paid the editors to delete such passages?

Religion categories
I've removed the religion categories per
 * WP:CATGRS: The "defining" principle applies to gendered/ethnic/sexuality/disability/religion-based categorization as to any other, i.e.: A central concept used in categorising articles is that of the defining characteristics of a subject of the article. A defining characteristic is one that reliable sources commonly and consistently define the subject as having—such as nationality or notable profession (in the case of people), type of location or region (in the case of places), etc.
 * WP:NONDEF: Categorization by non-defining characteristics should be avoided. It is sometimes difficult to know whether or not a particular characteristic is "defining" for any given topic, and there is no one definition that can apply to all situations. However, the following suggestions or rules-of-thumb may be helpful:
 * → a defining characteristic is one that reliable, secondary sources commonly and consistently define, in prose, the subject as having. For example: "Subject is an adjective noun ..." or "Subject, an adjective noun, ...". If such examples are common, each of adjective and noun may be deemed to be "defining" for subject.
 * → if the characteristic would not be appropriate to mention in the lead portion of an article, it is probably not defining;
 * → if the characteristic falls within any of the forms of overcategorization mentioned on this page, it is probably not defining.

It can be verified that the subject was a Christian, with the Moravian church, but that is not why he is famous, and is not a defining characteristic. Xenophrenic (talk) 21:36, 1 February 2017 (UTC)

Xenophrenic, the article actually emphasizes his Moravian faith several times, mentioning that he retained his Moravian faith while other family members became Episcopalian and also that he donated a significant portion of funds to develop a Moravian graveyard. I noticed that you changed the description of the category in order to justify your censorship (though you were wrong on both counts). Please revert yourself or I will do it for you. Thanks.--Jobas (talk) 22:57, 2 February 2017 (UTC)
 * "Emphasizes his Moravian faith several times" is a stretch; I find only one mention of his faith, possibly two if counting his donation to the Church. The other three instances "Moravian" is mentioned simply refers to his burial site. I don't deny that he was Moravian, but it isn't a key defining trait that Vanderbilt was prominently noted for. Snuggums (talk / edits) 23:51, 2 February 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 July 2017
The first paragraph of the introduction currently reads, in part: "he used perseverance, ruthless exploitation of the working class, cunning and luck to acquire monopoly power positions in the inland water trade and the railroad industry. He is best known for owning the"

That run of text should be reverted to a prior version, which lacks the negatively-charged language, thus: "he used perseverance, intelligence and luck to work into leadership positions in the inland water trade, and invest in the rapidly growing railroad industry. He is best known for building the" Mrhota (talk) 04:17, 27 July 2017 (UTC)
 * ✅ thank you for pointing out such bias. Snuggums (talk / edits) 04:32, 27 July 2017 (UTC)

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Semi-protected edit request on August 27, 2017
Under "Descendants", please change "Cornelius Jeremiah Vanderbilt, an epileptic, died childless and committed suicide in 1882" to "Cornelius Jeremiah Vanderbilt, an epileptic, committed suicide and died childless in 1882".Clamdigger7 (talk) 15:24, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

 * Changed to "...died childless after committing suicide in 1882." ++Arx Fortis (talk) 15:32, 27 August 2017 (UTC)

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071211014303/http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1998/6/1998_6_56.shtml to http://www.americanheritage.com/articles/magazine/ah/1998/6/1998_6_56.shtml
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Semi-protected edit request on 1 November 2018
The second sentence of the introduction contains subjective language. Past revisions of this sentence have gone back and forth between attributing Vanderbilt's success to traits with positive or negative connotations, but neither is necessary.

Simply removing the clause attributing his success to "perseverance, intelligence and luck" solves the problem. The rephrased sentence would then be: "Born poor and having only a mediocre education, Vanderbilt worked his way into leadership positions in the inland water trade and invested in the rapidly growing railroad industry." Officeromance (talk) 04:13, 1 November 2018 (UTC)
 * Pictogram voting wait.svg Already done — KuyaBriBri Talk 14:09, 1 November 2018 (UTC)

Overly positive take on Vanderbilt?
The header focuses on Vanderbilt as a philanthropist, and though he did donate money over the course of his life, I don't think that most consider him to be particularly known for his generosity. Could we focus more on historically pertinent aspects of his life? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Yitzilitt (talk • contribs) 02:28, 20 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Long time since you made this comment, but it appears to be resolved now. Only one sentence about his gift the university that bears his name. Jtbobwaysf (talk) 19:58, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Clarification of Descendants section
Please consider the following edits. As of 6/17/2019 Gloria Vanderbilt is no longer living. Also, Gloria Vanderbilt is not Cornelius Vanderbilt's great-great-granddaughter. Rather, she is his great-granddaughter. Gloria Vanderbilt's father is Reginald Claypoole Vanderbilt, therefore her grandfather is Cornelius Vanderbilt II, which would make the subject of this article (Cornelius Vanderbilt) her great-grandfather. Thank you for your consideration of these edits! Mabrn10 (talk) 16:03, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Actually, the Commodore here was indeed her great-great-grandfather when his eldest son William was the father of Cornelius II, paternal grandfather of Reginald, and patrilineal great-grandfather of Gloria. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 19:22, 17 June 2019 (UTC)
 * Just as reassurance that more than one person has checked, the subject of this article, Cornelius Vanderbilt (1794-1877) is indeed the great-great-grandfather of Gloria Vanderbilt. Here's the descent in tabular form:

1 Cornelius Vanderbilt (1794-1877) & Sophia Johnson (1795-1868) (GG-grandparents) 2 William Henry Vanderbilt (1821-1885) & Maria Louisa Kissam (1821-1896) (G-grandparents) 3 Cornelius Vanderbilt II (1843-1899) & Alice Claypoole Gwynne (1845-1934) (grandparents) 4 Reginald Claypoole Vanderbilt (1880-1925) & Gloria Laura Mercedes Morgan (1905-1965) (parents) 5 Gloria Morgan Vanderbilt (1924-2019) - Nunh-huh 19:57, 18 June 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 January 2020
Please change the "Ancestry" section to state that Jan Aertson was the great-great-great-grandfather, rather than the great-great-grandfather, of Cornelius Vanderbilt.

This is stated as such in the "History" section of the Vanderbilt family, and can be separately confirmed via the New Netherland Institute. Agrobbin (talk) 03:11, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
 * Yes check.svg Done Eggishorn (talk) (contrib) 18:56, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Not needed
The sentence “They processed cotton from the Deep South, so were directly tied to the slave societies.” in steamboat entrepreneur should be removed. As the whole paragraph mentions nothing of railroads to the south. The section is about Vanderbilt’s steamboat entrepreneurship. Mentioning new mills being built as a cause for expanded business is needed. Where the U.S textile mills got Cotton or that they were connected to slave societies is not.

“ During the 1830s, textile mills were built in large numbers in New England as the United States developed its manufacturing base. They processed cotton from the Deep South, so were directly tied to the slave societies. Some of the first railroads in the United States were built from Boston to Long Island Sound, to connect with steamboats that ran to New York.” OriginalIPMG (talk) 09:52, 3 March 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree and have removed it. Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 19:56, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I have a question. Someone on Quora is saying that Cornelius owned several plantations. Does anyone know if that is true? Or could he have purchased plantations after the war possibly? Zachygirl (talk) 04:01, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 November 2020:
Reference 2 makes no mention of Vanderbilt's father or first wife and should not be associated with them. Js3419 (talk) 12:00, 21 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Reference 2 is used three times, in A, B, and C. Please tell me which one you are talking about, as i dont see it used in relation to wives, etc. Thanks! Jtbobwaysf (talk) 19:55, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 9 May 2021
Re: Sophia (Johnson) Vanderbilt, wife of Commodore Cornelius Vanderbilt. She was the daughter of Nathaniel Johnson and his wife Elizabeth Simonson. The “Hand” maiden name was my mistake in an article written for the New York Genealogical & Biographical “Record”, July 1976 issue. Further research by me revealed her correct maiden name, Simonson, that was later published in the NYGBS “Record”. Please correct. Thank you. Charlotte Hix FGBS 108.46.210.91 (talk) 14:39, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
 * Not sure whether you have any links for this issue, but I boldly decided to remove Sophia's parents altogether when it didn't seem to be particularly relevant to the page. They'd be better for an article on her (assuming she ever warranted one). SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 15:11, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 18 September 2021
Please add the category Category:Burials at the Vanderbilt Mausoleum (Moravian Cemetery). 2601:241:300:B610:B9FA:FD79:C94:DDF1 (talk) 14:45, 18 September 2021 (UTC)
 * ✅ ✨ Ed  talk!  ✨ 02:10, 19 September 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request - update current dollar amounts to 2024
The last time amounts were adjusted for inflation in "today's dollars" was 2022. Suggest updated to current 2024 figures. Sergeant Curious (talk) 20:09, 7 February 2024 (UTC)

Two Commodores
There is reference to him as being called the Commodore as a youth in jest in the early years section, and there is a second reference to him being called Commodore at the end of the steamboat section. Which is correct? 192.189.36.82 (talk) 18:22, 5 June 2024 (UTC)
 * Both instances refer to this man. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 21:38, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cornelius Vanderbilt


text:
Marvel Masterpieces

Marvel Masterpieces is the name of several subsequent sets of trading cards, printed during 1992-2008, depicting characters and events from Marvel Comics. Featuring large, vividly drawn card fronts and backs detailing trivia, each card showcased a different personality from Marvel's body of work.

There was also a set of pop-up cards, distributed in sets of six with the Marvel Activity Sets. They measured about 1+1/4 by.

Series 1 - 1992
The first set, which came out in 1992, consisted entirely of portraits painted by Joe Jusko and was published by Skybox. The set included 100 standard cards, and 5 "Battle" Spectra Cards. There was a factory-tin set of the cards which also contained 5 "Lost Marvel" cards that could only be found in those tins. There were 6 promo cards and 3 pre-production prototype cards too, which were only available to dealers and/or available as free with Wizard magazine (#13 Psylocke) and comics books (Marvel Age #118 Hulk) etc.

The artwork from series 1 was also released by Marvel as 4 collections printed at standard comic size, titled "The Marvel Masterpieces Collection (1-4)" allowing it to be seen in greater detail.

The production run of sealed boxes is 350,000 according to the gold-colored stickers (within the factory applied cellophane wrapper) used to indicate that a box is factory sealed. The production run of tins (containing the "Lost Marvel" cards) is 35,000 according to the gold-colored sticker found on the bottom of the tin, within the factory cellophane seal.

Battle Spectra Cards

 * 1-D: Thing vs. Hulk
 * 2-D: Silver Surfer vs. Thanos
 * 3-D: Wolverine vs. Sabretooth
 * 4-D: Spider-Man vs. Venom
 * 5-D: Captain America vs. Red Skull

"Lost Marvel" Cards

 * LM-1: Scarlet Witch
 * LM-2: Feral
 * LM-3: Deathbird
 * LM-4: Typhoid Mary
 * LM-5: Jubilee

Promo Cards

 * Captain America
 * Hulk
 * Psylocke
 * Silver Surfer
 * Spider-Man
 * Wolverine

Prototype Cards

 * Hulk
 * Spider-Man
 * Wolverine

Series 2 - 1993
The set included 90 cards, along with 8 X-Men 2099 "Dyna-Etch" cards, randomly inserted throughout packs. The artwork from series 2 (featuring multiple well-known comic, fantasy and sci-fi artists) was also released by Marvel as three collections printed at standard comic size, titled "The Marvel Masterpieces 2 Collection (1-3)" allowing it to be seen in greater detail.

Dyna Etch cards

 * S1: Meanstreak
 * S2: Cerebra
 * S3: Krystalin
 * S4: Metalhead
 * S5: Serpentina
 * S6: Bloodhawk
 * S7: Skullfire
 * S8: Xi'an

Prototype Cards
She-Hulk, Daredevil, Venom (Black printing San Diego Comic Con), and Hulk 2099.

Series 3 - 1994
This set was drawn entirely by Greg and Tim Hildebrandt. It contained two subsets: 10 Holofoils which came in silver, gold and bronze variations, depending on where they were purchased, and 9 PowerBlast cards. This set was also the first to introduce "parallel sets" to the series. All 140 base cards came with a parallel gold-foil "Signature" card which came one-to-a-pack. This concept was also used in other Marvel card sets. One exception: there are Jumbo and Walmart retail store boxes of the Hildebrandt 1994 set, and those have Gold and Bronze versions, respectively, of the usually silver Holofoil cards. Sealed boxes of those non-hobby or standard retail kind, especially the Walmart retail store ones with the bronze foil versions, are quite valuable. Walmart boxes have been known to sell for thousands of dollars on Ebay, Amazon and other various websites.

Holofoil Cards

 * 1) Captain America
 * 2) Carnage
 * 3) Daredevil
 * 4) Hulk
 * 5) Iron Man
 * 6) Punisher
 * 7) Scarlet Witch
 * 8) Spider-Man
 * 9) Venom
 * 10) War Machine

PowerBlast Cards

 * PB1: Apocalypse
 * PB2: Archangel
 * PB3: Cable
 * PB4: Cyclops
 * PB5: Gambit
 * PB6: Magneto
 * PB7: Rogue
 * PB8: Sabretooth
 * PB9: Wolverine

Series 4 - 1995
This set consisted of 150 standard cards, 22 "Canvas" cards, 8 "Holoflash" cards, and 2 "Mirage" cards. Artwork for the set was done by four artists: Dave Devries, Dimitrios Patelis, Peter Scanlan and Nelson. Each artist painted 38 different characters that the other artists also painted plus 9 unique characters that were only painted once. Continuing from the previous set, these cards came with parallel cards this time in the form of "E-Motion" signatures. The two mirage cards are rare, coming one to every 360 packs depending on the ratio. They are highly sought-after. These boxes have increased highly in value and are very much sought by collectors as the 1996 Marvel masterpieces boxes. Since both years have limited print run the 1995 and 1996 are by far the rarest of the Marvel boxes to date. It was unknown at the time of production but now to a list count average found and credited.

Canvas Cards

 * 1) Archangel
 * 2) Beast
 * 3) Bishop
 * 4) Cable
 * 5) Daredevil
 * 6) Galactus
 * 7) Gambit
 * 8) Ghost Rider
 * 9) Human Torch
 * 10) Ice Man
 * 11) Invisible Woman
 * 12) Jubilee
 * 13) Magneto
 * 14) Namor
 * 15) Professor X
 * 16) Psylocke
 * 17) Punisher
 * 18) Rogue
 * 19) Silver Surfer
 * 20) Spider-Man
 * 21) Thing
 * 22) War Machine

Holoflash Cards

 * 1) Apocalypse
 * 2) Carnage
 * 3) Dr. Doom
 * 4) Mandarin
 * 5) Mr. Sinister
 * 6) Sabretooth
 * 7) Thanos
 * 8) Venom

Mirage Cards

 * 1) Classic Avengers: Captain America, Hulk, Iron Man, and Thor
 * 2) X-Men: Cyclops, Jean Grey, Storm, and Wolverine

Series 5 - 1996
This set included 100 standard cards, 6 "Gallery" cards, 6 "Double Impact" cards, and 9 artwork redemption cards. The artwork redemption cards were extremely rare and bore the text "Congratulations! You have just won an original piece of painted art from the Marvel Masterpieces 1996 set!" This series was drawn entirely by Boris Vallejo and Julie Bell.

Gallery Cards

 * 1) Cyclops
 * 2) Hulk
 * 3) Magneto
 * 4) Sabretooth
 * 5) Spider-Man
 * 6) Wolverine

Double Impact Cards

 * 1) Bishop/Beast
 * 2) Punisher/Psylocke
 * 3) Rogue/Human Torch
 * 4) Silver Surfer/Captain America
 * 5) Storm/Spider-Man
 * 6) Wolverine/Venom

Artwork Redemption Cards

 * 1) Beast
 * 2) Elektra
 * 3) Gambit
 * 4) Human Torch
 * 5) Silver Surfer
 * 6) Spider-Man
 * 7) Storm
 * 8) Venom
 * 9) Wolverine

Series 6 - Oct 2007
A new series bearing the name "Marvel Masterpieces" was released by Upper Deck (UDE) in October 2007. Most (if not all) of the art used for the trading cards is taken from artwork which UDE already owns and has used in its Vs. System TCG.

This set consists of 90 base cards, 9 Spider-Man subset inserts, 9 X-Men subset inserts, 3-artist splash page subsets (triptychs) featuring Art by Alex Ross, Arthur Adams, and Drew Struzan.

Each base card in the set has two parallel versions: a "holo-foil" version, and a gold-foil border version. Each of the Spider-Man and X-Men subsets has a holo-foil subset version.

Additionally, there are randomly inserted "Artist Sketch Cards" each featuring an original sketch by a noted artist. These are all one-of-a-kind. It is not known exactly how many sketch cards were put into circulation, but there should be roughly the same number as the boxes, 13,000, since the odds on finding one is approximately 1:36 packs, or 1 per box.

Also, the art from the Alex Ross splash subset was made into ashcan box-toppers (black-and-white versions) and inserted randomly 1 per box, not in a pack. Plus, the artwork from the Art Adams splash subset was made into ashcan case-toppers, one included per factory case.

Each Hobby pack (packs bought from hobby/comic shops) contains a card with a code for 100 UDE points which can be redeemed at www.udepoints.com and then spent on various items in the ude points store.

Series 7 - July 2008
After the successful re-launch of the Marvel Masterpieces set in 2007, Upper Deck decided to release another set. The second set, Marvel Masterpieces 2 came out in July 2008. This set consisted of a 90-card base set, 9 Marvel Heroines Chase Set, 9 Avengers Chase Set, 5 Fantastic Four Movie Memorabilia Chase Set, and 3 Hulk Chase Cards and 3 Iron Man Chase Cards. Also available one per box was a hand-drawn sketch card drawn by an artist. There were more sketch cards with this set than the 2007 set because this saw a release of 18,000 boxes as opposed to 13,000 in 2007. Upper Deck plans on releasing Marvel Masterpieces 3 on December 9, 2008.

3 Hulk Chase Cards and 3 Iron Man Chase Cards

Sealed hobby boxes contain chase cards "Hulk A" and "Iron Man A" (1:18 packs)

Target packs contain chase cards "Hulk B" and "Iron Man B"

WalMart packs contain chase cards "Hulk C" and "Iron Man C"

Series 8 - December 2008
Series 8 has 90 base-set cards consisting of "Bring on the Bad Guys" and "Battles", and with the following Chase cards: 9 "Bronze" Marvel Knights cards, 9 "Silver" X-Men Secret Identities cards, 9 "Gold" Marvel Moments, 27 Writer Autograph cards, Artist Sketch cards, Promo card Spider-Man.

Series 9 - 2016
Marvel Masterpieces 2016 will be released June 29, 2016. Artwork for the entire set will be done by Joe Jusko.

Article explaining Relaunch Marvel Masterpieces 2016

https://comicsalliance.com/upper-deck-marvel-masterpieces-2016-review/

Series 10 - 2018
https://www.cardboardconnection.com/2018-upper-deck-marvel-masterpieces-trading-cards

2020
Upper Deck Entertainment released the 2020 Marvel Masterpieces set in September 2020, featuring original art by David Palumbo.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Marvel Masterpieces


text: User talk:209.193.18.181

title: User talk:209.193.18.181


text:
Maples

Maples may refer to:

 * Maple trees

People

 * Chauncy Maples (1852–1895), British Anglican missionary and bishop in Africa
 * Fred Calvin Maples (1910–1987), American Southern gospel singer
 * John Maples (cricketer) (1913–1958), English cricketer
 * John Maples, Baron Maples (1943–2012), British politician
 * Josiah Maples (~1819–1878), American slave trader
 * Marla Maples (born 1963), American socialite
 * Michael D. Maples (born 1949), American military officer and former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency
 * William R. Maples (1937–1997), American anthropologist
 * William Maples (cricketer) (1820–1854), English Imperial civil servant and cricketer

Places

 * Maples (Middletown, Delaware), listed on the U.S. National Register of Historic Places in Delaware
 * Maples, Indiana, a small town in the United States
 * Maples, Missouri, an unincorporated community

Schools

 * Maples Collegiate, a public high school in Winnipeg, Manitoba

Other uses

 * Maples baronets, a title in the Baronetage of England
 * Maples Group (formerly Maples and Calder), an international law firm advising on the laws of the Cayman Islands, Ireland and the British Virgin Islands
 * Maples Cottage, a historic cottage in Westborough, Massachusetts
 * Maples Inn (disambiguation), various inns
 * Maples Pavilion, an arena in Stanford, California
 * Maples v. Thomas, a U.S. Supreme Court ruling
 * Maple & Co. (also known as Maples), a London-based furniture retailer

title: Maples


text:
Repeaters

Repeaters is a 2010 Canadian thriller film directed by Carl Bessai, written by Arne Olsen, and starring Dustin Milligan, Amanda Crew, and Richard de Klerk as young drug addicts who find themselves stuck in a time loop.

Plot
Kyle, Sonia, and Michael are inmates at a rehabilitation facility. Bob, the administrator, tasks them with apologizing to those they have hurt with their addiction. When Kyle attempts to apologize to his teenage sister Charlotte, she angrily blows him off, and the principal kicks him off school grounds. Sonia goes to the hospital where her dying father is a patient, but she is unable to bring herself to face him. Michael visits his father in jail, but the conversation is cut short by his father's abusive threats. When Bob asks them to discuss their day in group therapy, they refuse, and Michael storms off. While discussing the pointlessness of Bob's therapy, Sonia learns that her father has died. As the trio tries to deal with their emotional pain, a storm rolls in, and each of them is shocked and knocked unconscious.

When they wake up in the morning, they find that it is the same day, and all the same events repeat. Kyle, Sonia, and Michael stumble through the day and repeat their actions in a daze. When they discuss the situation, Michael is intrigued by the consequence-free possibilities open to them, but Kyle convinces them to act on a news report that he recalls. They go to a dam but are too late to stop a jumper. Michael suggests that they take advantage of the situation, and they commit petty crimes that result in a stay in jail. Eventually, as the day repeats endlessly, they embark on a drug bender and crime spree, robbing a store and culminating in the violent kidnapping of Tiko, a drug dealer who has been selling to Charlotte and her friend Michelle. On another loop, Michael forces Kyle to slice Tiko’s throat. At the dam, Michael carelessly risks his life walking on top of the railing and dares Sonia to do the same. When she slips, Michael merely laughs and refuses to try to help Kyle save her. Sonia falls to her death, then wakes up with a gasp on the next repeat. Sonia claims to remember nothing of her death, and the trio become emboldened by their apparent immortality.

On one repeat, Kyle and Sonia save the jumper at the dam, then discover that Michael has raped Michelle. When Kyle and Sonia confront Michael, Michael accuses them of hypocrisy and says that all their bad actions are excusable because everything gets reset. Michael's behavior becomes more violent and antisocial as the days repeat. Shaken by Michael's behavior, Kyle ambushes him in the morning and ties him to a chair. Kyle and Sonia fall in love and work toward redemption, but Michael laughs at Kyle; he claims that Sonia's story of childhood sexual abuse is just an act, quoting a story he says she uses to seduce men.

Kyle and Sonia form a deeper relationship during the loops and make peace with their families. This causes the time loop to abruptly end, but they do not realize it until the next day in the middle of a violent rampage by Michael that ends with the senseless murders of two people. Freaked out, Michael takes Charlotte hostage, but he commits suicide after Kyle attempts to reason with him. Michael is surprised to wake up again, stuck in his own time loop, unsure if he can arrange peace with his own family to break the loop.

Production
Shooting took place in Mission, British Columbia on January 11 to 31, 2010.

Release
The film premiered at the Toronto International Film Festival. It was released on DVD August 9, 2011.

Reception
Rotten Tomatoes, a review aggregator, reports that 20% of five surveyed critics gave it a positive review; the average rating was 4.2/10. Robert Koehler of Variety called it "a dead-serious version of Groundhog Day" that "brings little personal energy". Scott A. Gray of Exclaim! wrote that the film is not as preachy as expected, but it is still not the promised mindbender of the tagline. Joel Harley of Starburst rated it 8/10 stars and wrote that it is a cynical take on Groundhog Day, neither original nor too derivative to be enjoyed. Chris Knight of the National Post called it a complicated, intelligent, and elegant version of Groundhog Day that introduces more variables and selfish characters. Bruce DeMara of the Toronto Star rated it 3.5/4 stars and described it as "Groundhog Day but without the laughs and with a wild, cerebral spin." Kate Taylor of The Globe and Mail rated it 2.5/4 stars and called it "a small but interesting thriller" that "does not do full psychological justice to its clever premise".

title: Repeaters


text:
Sands

Sands may refer to: Sands or The Sands may also refer to:
 * Multiple types of sand, granular material.

Places

 * Sands, Michigan, an unincorporated community
 * Sands Township, Michigan, USA
 * Sands Fjord, Greenland

People

 * Sands (surname)

Casinos and resorts

 * Las Vegas Sands, a casino development company
 * Marina Bay Sands, in Singapore
 * Sands Atlantic City, a closed hotel/casino in Atlantic City, New Jersey
 * Sands Casino Resort Bethlehem, a casino and resort in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, now Wind Creek Bethlehem
 * Sands Expo and Convention Center, in Las Vegas, Nevada
 * Sands Hotel, a closed hotel/casino in Las Vegas, Nevada
 * Sands Macau, a casino in Macau
 * Sands Regency, in Reno, Nevada

Ships

 * USNS Sands (T-AGOR-6), an oceanographic research ship that served the U.S. Navy
 * USS Sands (DD-243/APD-13), destroyer in the U.S. Navy

Other uses

 * Sands (charity), formerly The Stillbirth and Neonatal Death Society, a UK charity
 * David Sands, a convenience store chain, based in Fife and Perthshire, Scotland
 * Inspector Sands or Mr Sands, an emergency code word used in public transport systems in the United Kingdom
 * Sands School, an alternative, democratic school in the UK

title: Sands


text:
Talk:Chicago (poem)

[Untitled]
from VfD:

School essay. Original research? Mikkalai 06:16, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I'd venture "unoriginal research", but yes, delete --fvw *  06:38, 2004 Dec 17 (UTC)
 * Delete. Original poem analysis. Not encyclopedic. jni 07:01, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not an encyclopaedia article. P Ingerson 08:25, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Original poem analysis. Not an encyclopaedia article. [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 08:48, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)
 * Assuming it's not a copyvio, keep and move to Chicago (poem). Very notable. Everyking 09:54, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I agree with Everyking. Cleanup, encyclopedicize and move to Chicago (poem). Samaritan 10:14, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, move, and cleanup. The poem is worthy of an article.  This analysis needs major cleanup, but it may be helpful to a future editor.  -- Smerdis of Tlön 16:24, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Just someone's reaction to a poem--not encyclopedic. Niteowlneils 16:33, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Merge, crummy essay, it's ok now, but one of the two articles has to go. Wyss 23:38, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I have rewritten the page and moved it to Chicago (poem). -- Smerdis of Tlön 17:02, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Woohoo! Thank you. Samaritan 19:15, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * keep' Yuckfoo 04:54, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)

end moved discussion

Copyvio
being that this was written less that 100 years ago, are we sure this is not copyrighted? I'm going to investigate. AdamBiswanger1 16:50, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

 * Because it was published in the U.S. before 1923, that's why... AnonMoos 00:42, 17 December 2006 (UTC)

Poem deleted
As per WP:NOFULLTEXT, the poem has been removed from the article. The text is available via an external link, JSTOR's freely accessible link to the now-public-domain source. It's also suitable for Wikisource, if someone wants to put it there. (Note that the original markup using br-tags was clumsy: see the use of the poem-tag in Fog (poem).) Choor monster (talk) 20:23, 18 April 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Chicago (poem)


text:
William Ivens

William Ivens (June 28, 1878 – June 20, 1957) was a religious and political figure in Manitoba, Canada. He was a leading figure in the Winnipeg General Strike, and subsequently served as a Labour member of the Manitoba legislature from 1920 to 1936.

Personal life
Ivens was born in 1878 at Barford, in Warwickshire, England, to William Ivens and Sarah Willis. He then immigrated to Canada in 1896 when he was 16. Ivens was educated at Wesley College, Winnipeg and was greatly influenced by Reverend Salem Bland. He graduated from Wesley College in 1906 with a Bachelor of Arts, then in 1907 with a Bachelor of Divinity. Ivens attended the University of Manitoba in 1909, gaining a Master of Arts degree in political economy and becoming an ordained minister in the Methodist Church.

On July 7, 1908, William Ivens and Louisa Davis wed. In 1910, their son Milton Herbert Ivens was born.

Ministerial career
Ivens began his ministerial career at a time when the social gospel was on the rise in Canada. He was stationed at the McDougall Methodist Church in Winnipeg in 1916, and called for the church to lead the labour movement in its struggle against the prevailing tendencies of North American capitalism.

In 1917 and 1918, Ivens was opposed by several members of his congregation by defending conscientious objectors to World War I and criticizing the management of the war. He expressed these opinions as a private citizen in newspaper articles, rather than from his pulpit; nevertheless, many church members opposed him as insufficiently patriotic in wartime.

Although there were several petitions presented in Ivens' favour (he had improved the financial status of McDougall during his time as its minister), the overseeing body removed him from the church in June 1918 in an effort to restore local unity. Ivens agreed to stand down on condition that he be granted a year's leave to establish a "workers' church". Before the end of the month, he had founded the first Labour Church in the City of Winnipeg.

Labour Church Leader
June 30, 1918 marked the start of the Labour church as soon to be members gathered at the Winnipeg Labor Temple to discuss the possibility of a church for workers, pro-labour progressives and disgruntled church members. This church was created to preach information relevant to the working class. It was here where Ivens became the minister for this Labour church.

Ivens was directly involved in labour activism during this period. He supported the newly organized Dominion Labour Party, and attempted to build local networks of support in a speaking tour of western Canada. Upon his return to Winnipeg, he assumed the editorship of the Western Labour News, a newspaper published by the Winnipeg Trades and Labour Council.

Participation in the Winnipeg General Strike
Ivens continued as editor of the Western Labour News during the Winnipeg General Strike of 1919, and published a Daily Strike Bulletin during this period. He wrote numerous articles in support of the strikers. Reverend Ivens preached services of his church in the park every Sunday for the six weeks of the strike. Within these services strike news would be relayed along with the prayers. Although he warned against public disorder, he also referred to the strike as the harbinger of a new age for the working-class in Canada. His Labour Church soon became the scene of extremely large meetings, with crowds growing up to 7,000 listeners.

When the Canadian government suppressed the strike in June 1919, Ivens was arrested on charges of seditious libel and conspiracy during an overnight raid on the 17th of June. James Shaver Woodsworth took over Ivens positions following the arrest. Although it is unlikely that his editorials actually constituted sedition by the standards of the age, on March 28, 1920, he was found guilty and given a year in prison. Ivens was then sent to Stony Mountain Penitentiary.

Political career
While still in prison, Ivens ran as a candidate of the Dominion Labour Party (DLP) in the provincial election of 1920, and was elected in the city of Winnipeg. Winnipeg, at the time, elected ten members by preferential balloting; Ivens finished fifth on the first count and was declared elected on the second after receiving transfers from DLP leader Fred Dixon.

In late 1920, the DLP split into two factions via a fallout over the Winnipeg General Strike. Dixon, Ivens, Woodsworth and most others on the left of the DLP founded the new Independent Labour Party of Manitoba (ILP) in November 1920.

He was re-elected in the provincial election of 1922, but was reduced to fourth place among the successful social democratic candidates and was not assured of re-election until the final count.

In addition to his political career, Ivens also received a chiropractor's certificate in 1925 and practiced in the field.

Ivens was re-elected in the elections of 1927 and 1932, though again trailing other successful social democratic candidates. He lost his seat in the provincial election of 1936. In 1940, Ivens ran unsuccessfully as an Ontario Cooperative Commonwealth Federation (CCF) candidate in the federal Kenora—Rainy River riding. He attempted a comeback in the election of 1941 as a candidate of the Manitoba Cooperative Commonwealth Federation, but was unsuccessful.

Ivens remained active in the CCF after leaving the legislature but never held a seat.

Death and legacy
He died on June 20, 1957 in Chula Vista, California, at the age of 78. Ivens was interred in Elmwood Cemetery in Winnipeg, on July 12, 1957.

Ivens worked to create a better life for the working class of Manitoba. He preached within his Labour Church, supported strikers and worked as a politician to make change.

title: William Ivens


text:
User talk:Johnshepler

Hello and welcome to Wikipedia! Hope you like it here, and stick around.

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[[User:Meelar|Meelar (talk)]] 06:17, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Gigapackets

The article Gigapackets has been proposed for deletion because of the following concern: "Unsourced and tagged since at least 2009. Unable to establish notability or even verify with a web search. Previous uncontested deletion suggestion on talk page on 2013."

While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be deleted for any of several reasons.

You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the notice, but please explain why in your edit summary or on the article's talk page.

Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing will stop the proposed deletion process, but other deletion processes exist. In particular, the speedy deletion process can result in deletion without discussion, and articles for deletion allows discussion to reach consensus for deletion. ~Kvng (talk) 15:52, 25 July 2017 (UTC)

title: User talk:Johnshepler


text:
Talk:Rape fantasy

this article is deceptive
this isn't what used to be at this URL, and it is frankly a bunch of bullshit. see the "can't rape the willing" comment below. garbage. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.188.151.72 (talk) 05:32, 4 October 2010 (UTC)

Consenting Adults
Are we absolutely sure that role-played rape fantasy can, by definition, only occur between "adults"? It seems like the article is trying to be politically correct, and letting PC override objectivity. It seems NPOV. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 58.153.0.24 (talk) 03:57, 30 March 2007 (UTC).

 * Well if it involved underage children, or non-consenting adults, it would be actual rape, and not a rape fantasy. Mdwh 23:18, 23 July 2007 (UTC)
 * I think that me meant is what if both persons are under-age and cannot, by definition, consent? P91 (talk) 11:56, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

How can someone not be in control of their own fantasy? I realize that some people think this a highly important point in regard to rape fantasies, and for some in regards to porn and erotica -- the consumers of porn/erotica are in control of what and when they do so -- although of course some people would put antennas on hills all over the world to control our fantasies and other thoughts if they could do so -- but in both cases it seems a patently silly distinction to simply state. Surely it needs some sort of conceptual background or something. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.224.120 (talk) 04:07, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

 * I think it was only the term "adults" (which is usually defined as "non-minors", and often implies those above the age of 18 or above the age of 21, those concepts coincidentally not always in line with each other, since sexual age of consent is frequently a lower than 21 and sometimes even lower than 18)  that they found a little... off. It is technically true actually that two minors, in some jurisdictions at least, or two teenagers above say, 16 (and therefore above the age of sexual consent in most areas of the U.S. and U.K, but not legally a full-fledged adult nor societally considered an adult in many situations) could legally engage in it by consent with each other without it being defined as "rape". The solution I think - to be 100% neutral and accurate at the same time - would be to change the word "adults" to "individuals" in the phrase "consenting adults". I mean, there's nothing really wrong with saying "individuals" instead, after all, and it really would be accurate in all senses. Even if it's a little picky, but hey, picky isn't always bad since accuracy = good on Wikipedia!  —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.238.22.61 (talk) 20:12, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

The final paragraph of the section on role playing is clearly prescribing behavior rather than describing it. Clearly some people somewhere in the world who engage in role playing do not carefully negotiate the rules of their role-playing games. Sure some do not use safe words. Encyclopedias are descriptive rather than prescriptive. Neither should they be venues of propaganda aimed at vanilla readers. If the section is a how-to-manual, it should use the word "should" rather than others. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.23.224.120 (talk) 04:20, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

Move
Can I ask why this was moved from Rape fantasy? I presume this was meant to be moved to Consensual forced fantasy? Even so, that term seems to be a neologism, I feel the term "rape fantasy" was better and more widely used. Mdwh 18:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

The word "rape" strongly implies non-consensual force. I think using a term like consensual force is much more neutral and accurate depiction of the topic of the article. Or do you have other ideas?--Sonjaaa 19:26, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Rape fantasy is a far more common term, regardless of how inaccurate it may be in some contexts (in others, it's appropriate though - for instance, many erotica or romance stories involve an initially if not wholly non-consensual act, but end with the heroine in love with her rapist. Yes, I find it kind of odd too, but it's actually fairly common on some archives...). That said, so long as "rape fantasy" forwards to this article and this article covers all the usages of "rape fantasy", I don't really have too big a problem with it, personally. :) Even if the term "consensual force fantasy" seems a little pompous. "Consensual forced fantasy" though, doesn't sound accurate to what it's describing, or even particularly sensical, as grammatically it could easily be interpreted as consenting to have a fantasy forced on you - as opposed to a fantasy about something being forced on you or whatnot (or "forced" in satirical quotes, to be entirely accurate, though...). At least the current title makes coherent grammatical sense. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4.238.22.61 (talk) 20:29, 26 September 2007 (UTC)

 * The fantasies described in the article are widely known as "rape fantasies". In contrast, no one calls them "consensual force fantasies".  Even if it were true that Sonjaaa's invented neologism were "more neutral and accurate" -- an assertion with which I disagree -- that would not be sufficient argument for moving the article from the common term to an invented neologism.
 * For describing one variety of what falls under the general term "rape fantasy" -- i.e., consenting partners roleplaying a scenario in which force is used -- then perhaps "consensual force fantasy" makes sense. But the term is confusing and misleading as applied to the general phenomenon -- when a man or a woman lies on their bed alone and fantasizes a scenario of being nonconsentually subjected to forcible sex, how are we to understand "consensual force fantasy" to apply?  In the fantasy world, there is no consent; in the real world, there is no other person to consent with.
 * I highly suggest that this article be moved back to the title rape fantasy. Frankly, I think it reflects poorly on Wikipedia that it's been allowed to stay under a neologism title for almost three months. -- 192.250.34.161 14:19, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

 * For what it's worth, I've been working on sexual fantasy for a while and I've always read it as "Forced sex fantasy."-Wafulz (talk) 23:00, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I've come back to this page after a while, and I'm still a bit uneasy with the section suggesting that rape fantasy is a possible 'treatment' for trauma left over from previous real assaults. It does look a bit like 'apologia in advance'. Someone very close to me was sexually abused as a young girl, and she says that the only real 'closure' from the residual trauma would be to (30 years later) drop a large concrete paving slab on his head from a sixth floor balcony.  The woman concerned does admit to having a mild rape fantasy, but it's more related to the fictional romantic 'bodice-ripper' scenario than anything 'real'. 160.84.253.241 (talk) 12:14, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

 * I agree with the previous poster. I've had rape fantasies (not 'bodice-ripper') since I was 8 years old, and I was in no way, shape or form abused as a child (I also enjoy my fantasies very much). Also, I think it's very stigmatizing to only mention this in the section about women's fantasies - I think that the theory of trauma has more to do with women's role in society and how we view them/ourselves, than it has to do with fact. A woman fantasizing about a thing such as rape surely has to be mentally traumatized in some way (obvious sarcasm is obvious I hope). In fact; that theory results in women, such as myself, who have these fantasies to be judged by our spouses as well as society; I have been told numerous times that my fantasies are unhealthy and that I need psychiatric treatment. I suppose that they react in that way because they don't understand the fantasy, and just assume that the person is mentally traumatized (note: I do believe that such traumas can manifest in sexual fantasies, as it is mentioned in the main article). I suggest that a separate section is created for theories, studies and such. This article needs a lot more information, but there is generally little information to be found on this subject since 1) it's taboo and 2) a lot of people feel guilty about their fantasy and will deny that they enjoy it or that they even have it. ---Thm 11:16, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

 * About the term, we use 'rape fantasy' ourselves since it's the simplest way to describe it - but 'ravishment' is also becoming a popular term. I don't like using the word 'rape' at all, since the fantasy is about dominance and submission or lust/desire - NOT about being raped or raping someone, and I feel that using 'rape' about this fantasy is to trivialize actual rape. I like the idea of 'consensual forced sex' but it's too long and complicated. 'rape fantasy' and 'ravishment' are the current terms that are being used, so it would be appropriate to use them - even though the former isn't exactly very PC. Also, I feel that it needs to be further emphasized how none of us (That's right, none - not "we seldom wish...") actually want to be raped or rape someone; my nightmare is to actually be raped. There is a paraphilia called "biastophilia" which involves being sexually aroused by actual rape, whether it's the action of rape or fantasizing about raping someone. 'rape fantasy' is somewhat misleading and it fails to distinguish between fantasizing about real rape (raping someone or being raped), and fantasizing about being dominated/dominating someone or the popular 'bodice-ripper' fantasy; there's an enormous difference between fantasizing about real rape and 'rape fantasy'. We generally despise rape as much as the next person, and we try to let people know that our fantasies and role-playing is in no way, shape or form associated with real rape. Those who are sexually aroused by the thought or act of actually raping someone need psychiatric treatment. It's difficult to explain, and I doubt that there are any citable sources about this. We generally stay underground and try to be anonymous (especially on the internet) since there's always a risk when sharing our fantasy that someone will misunderstand us and think that we actually want to be raped - and, god forbid, track one of us down (hence why I'm leaving my IP out of my signature). ---Thm 11:16, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

 * As an editor just pointed out, one problem is that ravishment often means rape anyway. On Wikipedia, the ravishment article redirects to rape. I suppose the difference is that whilst rape always means non-consensual, ravishment can also mean "The act of seizing by force" which strictly speaking doesn't imply non-consensuality, and as you say may be closer to what many people fantasise. I reverted the edit saying ravishment is the same as rape, because that's not the context that we're using it as. But shouldn't we really be talking about "ravishment fantasy" (at least in the lead)? After all, surely "ravishment" refers to the act, but this is an article about the "sexual fantasy" (only later on in the Roleplay section do e discuss the act)? Mdwh (talk) 12:44, 4 May 2009 (UTC)

Move to "Forced sex fantasy"
The scientific literature I've read has almost always referred to the phenomenon as "forced sex fantasy" because it is broader and includes things like coercion or seduction. I think "forced sex fantasy" is a better title.-Wafulz (talk) 15:17, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * oppose - No ref says so, it is just a personal opinion. C.columbus (talk) 06:01, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

 * This isn't a vote, but anyway, here are some scholarly references:

 * Leitenberg, Harold & Henning, Kris (1995), “Sexual Fantasy”, Psychological Bulletin 117 (3): 469-496, ISSN 0033-2909, pg 482-483. Refers to the phenomenon as a "so-called 'rape' fantasy" (quotes are verbatim). Interchangeably uses the terms "force fantasy" and "submission fantasy"
 * The Journal of Sex Research Vol. 22, No. 2, pp. 162-183 May, 1986 Guided Imagery of Rape: Fantasy, Reality, and the Willing Victim Myth, uses the term "'rape' fantasy", quotes are verbatim again. Since it only covers rape, it only uses the term "'rape' fantasy"
 * Women’s Erotic Rape Fantasies: An Evaluation of Theory and Research. Joseph W. Critelli and Jenny M. Bivona. DOI 10.1080/00224490701808191. Uses both terms "forced sex" and "rape fantasy"
 * Strassberg, Donald S. & Lockerd, Lisa K. (1998), “Force in Women’s Sexual Fantasies”, Archives of Sexual Behavior 27 (4): 403-415, ISSN 1573-2800. Refers to them as "force fantasies" or "coercion fantasies."

 * What I'm saying is that "rape fantasy" is a common term, but it isn't preferred when discussing the whole spectrum of coercion; It has a very narrow definition. Given that it's impossible to separate the study of rape in sexual fantasies from the study of force in sexual fantasies, they need to be discussed together in this article, and "rape fantasy" doesn't have the appropriate breadth.-Wafulz (talk) 21:09, 30 June 2008 (UTC)

 * It's hardly impossible to distinguish between the two, the scenario in the fantasy may be the same but it's what we find arousing in the fantasy that distinguishes between all the variants. Being sexually aroused by the thought of raping someone in 'real life' has nothing to do with 'rape fantasy', it's called 'biastophilia' and it's as dangerous as pedophilia. About the term; I suggest that all terms are included. 'forced sex fantasy' would be the PC way to describe it, but we ourselves use 'rape fantasy' and 'ravishment' - I suggest that all three are included in the article. The phrase 'rape fantasy' fails miserably in distinguishing between the healthy and the unhealthy fantasy; and we try our best to emphasize the difference between the two, but it's very difficult. ---Thm 11:59, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

"Can't rape the willing"
There should be something written of the philosophical paradox wherein the common idiom is found that one "cannot rape the willing" 67.5.156.242 (talk) 10:47, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Why? Those who have rape fantasies have no desire to be raped, and a rape fantasy often includes coercion.-Wafulz (talk) 16:47, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

 * Of course you can rape a willing person - remember Max Cady's vile date in "Cape Fear". To have sex with her, he would not have had to rape her, but he utterly wanted to hurt her. He emphazized her suffering. This corresponds to the second male rape phantasy which could also be called the anti-social one. So raping a willing person is especially vile.
 * Inversely, you can't be willing to be raped in the proper sense of the word (unless you haven't reached the age of consent, e.g. a 14yo boy desiring an adult woman). You can be willing to be taken by force, of course, e.g. as a woman who thinks that a real man is like good music - capturing and overwhelming.--Slow Phil (talk) 20:20, 1 June 2009 (UTC)
 * Additionally, the word "rape" also stands for abduction by force, e.g. the rape of the Sabine women. This term doesn't regard the question wether any of these women was anytime forced to sexual intercourse without liking it. Of course, you can want it: As a daughter of very traditional parents who just found a bachelor for you - whom you dislike, you an hope that your real favourite rapes you in this sense.--Slow Phil (talk) 20:33, 1 June 2009 (UTC)

This seems like maybe a good place to mention this somewhat related issue: "The difference between a fantasy and a real life situation is that in the fantasy, the person remains in full control of what happens and maintains their power." The article seems to assume that no one ever fantasizes about actually being raped, and that all (or almost all) rape fantasies would (if fulfilled) only involve consenting roleplayers. Such an assertion requires some sort of evidence; there's nothing about fantasizers of rape-roleplaying which logically precludes fantasizers of actual rape (which, presumably, would be addressed in the article 'rape fantasy'). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.172.85.6 (talk) 19:38, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

 * There are in fact people who are aroused by fantasizing (or acting upon) real rape. 'biastophilia' is a paraphilia where the person is aroused by the thought (and/or act) of sexually assaulting an unconsenting person. The 'victim' version is called 'raptophilia', and they should NOT be confused with 'rape fantasy', but mentioning biastophilia and raptophilia in the article for the sake of differentiation might be a good idea. ---Thm 12:03, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

Removed uncited content from talk page
The most commonly held theory about this phenomenon is that many individuals turn to fantasies about being raped as a means of reconciling naturally-occurring sexual desires with the intense negative stigma their culture and/or creed affix to sexual activity. The fantasy serves as a psychological device through which the fantasizer can safely indulge in intense sexual experiences without guilt, by absolving themselves of responsibility for participating in the act. Many socially acceptable examples can be found in "bodice ripper" fiction.

Rape fantasies can also represent an outlet for sexually submissive and/or dominant individuals. In such fantasies they can imagine themselves as having or lacking sexual control or power without actually participating in an illegal or immoral act.

Another relatively common theory is that the attraction some men feel toward raping is an evolutionary relic of prehistoric man (thousands of years ago, those willing to rape were more likely to have their genes passed on). According to these sociobiological theories of rape, rape fantasy fulfills a hereditary impulse that in civilized society where real rape has become socially intolerable.

Regardless, the presence of rape fantasies in a community or individual cannot be taken to imply that the fantasizers in reality condone rape, desire to rape others, or wish to be raped themselves. - 24.21.197.163 (talk) 19:42, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

1st paragraph, last sentence
"It can be feeling of domination or submission also, as someone fantasises of forcing someone, or being forced, to have sex." Assuming the usual case is a victim's fantasy, the last sentence should represent the rapist side only. "being forced" makes no sense - this is already covered. Would you agree? Thanks Kvsh5 (talk) 08:48, 8 November 2008 (UTC)

 * There is no "usual" case, most men fantasize about forcing someone, while most women fantasize about being forced; depending on their sexual orientation and preference (dominant or submissive). So both sides need to be covered. And using the words "rapist" and "victim" is hardly appropriate; I prefer using "dominant" and "submissive" when it comes to forced sex fantasy, since it shouldn't ever be confused with fantasies or desires about actually raping or being raped. There is no victim and there is no rapist; there's a dominant person and a submissive person. ---Thm 11:16, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Thanks. First, Sorry about the terms I used, it was for clarity only. Second, please read the openning of the article - seems like the focus is the submissive side and the last sentence should describe the dominant side - note the "also" before the comma. Kvsh5 (talk) 20:18, 6 February 2009 (UTC)

Of the Fantasy section and subsections
The first part of the general "Fantasy" section describes a demographic of men who had fantasized about having the impression of being raped. However, the section following the subheader of "Male fantasy" only describes men who fantasize about being in the dominant position. Seems a bit sexist to me. Actually, considering the minimal content of the "Fantasy" section, its subsections should probably be removed and the overall info consolidated. --OGoncho (talk) 09:55, 29 May 2009 (UTC)

 * Yes, this is the exact issue I came in here to flag. While I see little cause to infer sexism on the author's part, there's a clear lack of structural rigor in the contradiction between the first paragraph, where "men's rape fantasies most commonly take a passive role," and the very next paragraph, where "men's rape fantasies all come in one of two flavors: a dominant role or an extremely dominant role." I'm no professional and can't say if one assertion is more accurate than the other; all I know is it can't go both ways at the same time. OGoncho's suggestion of omitting this rubbish altogether works fine for me. --just some guy, 4 October 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.68.168.13 (talk) 17:29, 4 October 2009 (UTC)

As Therapy
I am about to make a substantial admission against interest; Leave neither pity nor condemnation (I don’t want nor need the one and just don’t care about the other):

I myself was sexually assaulted in 2003 in a hazing incident that got extremely out-of-control (they got very much carried away). Part (albeit a small part) of my therapy was engaging in rape fantasy (both as perpetrator and vicitim). The doctor I dealing with at the time told me it was a process called “mastery,” in which the victim of a traumatic event takes control of the trauma; in children victimized by sexual abuse, he said they re-write the story where the event occurred, with it ending in a pleasant experience, rather than the abuse (whether this is still practiced or not I can not say).

While engaging in this phase of my life, I found ‘most’ of the other people so interested had themselves been sexually victimized at one point or another, to varying degrees. I submit that this aspect should be included, in at least a blurb under a subheading under roleplay. A. J. REDDSON

Are there newer studies?
I find it really unusual that the studies being used to support this article on social behavior are 30-40 years old. A lot has happened in American culture since the 1970s! The most recent study is 15 years old, which is slightly better, but I still question the usefulness of 40 year old studies on judging the frequency of culturally-conditioned fantasies.

This article is also solely focused on the woman's desire to be overpowered. Where are the studies on why men fantasize about being rapists? This isn't a one-sided encounter. 69.125.134.86 (talk) 19:29, 17 July 2013 (UTC)

My comment would be, in the absence of newer studies, the language "rape fantasy was once a common sexual fantasy", means that nothing has changed, and it still is a common sexual fantasy of both women and men. And a 15 year old study is NOT that old; that's not even one generation to provide a change in thought between generations. 20 year olds who participated in that study are only 35. I'd want to change the language into 'Rape Fantasy is a common sexual fantasy' as there is no evidence to provide that this has changed. I will plan on making that edit if there are no objections with sources that it HAS changed and is no longer true that rape fantasy is a common sexual fantasy. Awolnetdiva (talk) 21:02, 3 May 2014 (UTC)
 * I think the Fantasy section definitely needs rewriting but writing "Rape fantasy is a common sexual fantasy" would be synthesis if the sources support an older study. I would suggest completely rewriting it or removing the word "common" as that is the part that heavily relies on contemporary sources. In other words, I would just remove the sentence "Studies from...men and women" as to say it is still common would need newer references --Drowninginlimbo (talk) 21:25, 3 May 2014 (UTC)

On 30 October 2014, a new study about sexual fantasies was published in the Journal of Sexual Medicine. I can't access it right now, but excerpts in the media told that a high number of women (30-60 %) had fantasies about being dominated. One of the mentioned such categories was a rape fantasy, maybe the full study has something more accurate about it. --Pudeo' 23:07, 3 November 2014 (UTC)

Everybody Lies (2017)
See Everybody Lies (book).

The subsection Chapter 4: Digital Truth Serum — The Truth About Sex has quite a bit on the expression of sexual fantasy on the Internet.

From Everybody lies: how Google search reveals our darkest secrets — 30 September 2018

Porn featuring violence against women is also extremely popular among women. It is far more popular among women than men.

I hate saying that because misogynists seem to love this fact. Fantasy life isn't always politically correct.

The rate at which women watch violent porn is roughly the same in every part of the world. It isn't correlated with how women are treated.

I don't have the book itself handy, and the websites that discuss this portion of the book's contents are awfully gun shy, based on my recollection from when I did read this book. — MaxEnt 01:37, 6 June 2020 (UTC)

Studies have found rape fantasy is a common sexual fantasy among both men and women
I've added a citation needed to this sentence, because it just doesn't sound right. I think this subject goes deeper than mere fantasy and is a consequence of a violent human history, to which women have probably suffererd more, or at least in different ways to men — Preceding unsigned comment added by FlamingDeath (talk • contribs) 22:06, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Rape fantasy