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North American RailNet

North American RailNet, Inc., based in Bedford, Texas, was a holding company of short line railroads. It formerly owned the following:

title: North American RailNet


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Talk:Cytotoxic T cell

History of a cytotoxic T cell
I would like to know about the history of a cytotoxic T cell. I can't find anything on the web!== CD8+ T cells == If I remember correctly, CD8+ T cells equals cytotoxic T cells. The article is not clear on this point. / Habj 16:34, 21 December 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, that is usually correct. I either have, or will make that association. The only problem is (and this is particularly true for CD4+ T cells) that there SOME exceptions to the rule, and this is where service as a general public encyclopedia versus a scientific review comes in. For example, cytotoxic CD4+ T cells do exist, but the incidence of these cells are very rare unless you enter certain disease states. I'm not particularly happy with how this immune page is written; whether that particular page is the best place to place TcR recombination (rather than a dedicated page, since it's a common step for all T cells), and information on how CD8+ T cells actually activate (versus what they do after they activate) is very lacking. The page is also not un-educated person friendly at all. There is no importance mentioned in how helper T cells are essential for their initial activation, or some of the safeguards the immune system has to prevent auto-immunity of cytotoxic T cells (e.g. co-stimulation is absolutely ESSENTIAL aspect in these cells). I could go on. This page was similar to the helper T cell page prior to me almost re-writing the entire page (there are a couple of original fragments, but you'd be lucky to find any more than one). I don't have the energy atm to re-write this page, I'd prefer to reference the helper page before I get stuck into the other immune cell pages.Volantares 12:35, 13 May 2006 (UTC)

Discussion of Pathogenesis
The mention of pathogenesis in various disease states is a good idea, although I feel that perhaps the pathogenesis section just needs a good introduction into the generalised role of cytotoxic T cells (i.e. they kill infected cells, but they have also been implicated in the pathogenesis of various illnesses). Is the discussion of the role of platelets in a Hepatitis B infection beginning to deviate from the purpose of this article? Wouldn't that specific result (especially since it isn't in a review) should remain in the pathogenesis section of Hepatitis B? Volantares 10:49, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

all the development can be described with all T lympocytes in the T cell article. Seems pointless to repeat it slightly differently in lots of places.

 * I think we're having this problem now between T cell and T helper cell as well. It may be necessary to coordinate editors for all three pages to come to relevant territorial consensus -- seeing as how it's mostly the same few people. Jbarin 08:13, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

AIDS Immunity
I think it is worth noting that this cell (particularly CD8 T Cells) are important in the small, very rare, population of people who have HIV but are immune (or at least very highly protected from) AIDS. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.205.70.254 (talk) 05:15, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

Cytotoxic T cell development
This paragraph only talks about the Instructive Model Pathway for T cell development. There is another pathway, the Stochastic Pathway, which needs to be added and a statement that there is no general consensus over which one is correct, although most university teach the Instructive pathway. Scubafish 10:48, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Then why don't you change it you friggin Know-it-all75.155.134.185 (talk) 02:43, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Misleading Diagram
Uh, unless I'm wrong, I find the first diagram a little misleading. It implies that it is the process of antigen presentation with the peptide that induces a T-cell to become CD4 or CD8 whereas it is infact the process of positive selection where if the T-cell interacts with MHCI then it is 8 and MHCII then it is 4, regardless of the antigen it encounters later on. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cacofonie (talk • contribs) 12:38, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

 * I think you're correct. I left a comment on the T helper cell pages regarding this. M0rt (talk) 05:54, 31 May 2009 (UTC)

Actually, according to Janeway's Immunology, it's even more complex: double positive T cells randomly become single positive (SP) CD4+ or SP CD8+ cells, and then they will only survive if they have kept the marker that can function with the type of MHC their TCR recognizes; so, if a T cell's TCR recognizes CMH II and the T cell randomly chooses to keep CD8 and not CD4, it will die; thus, at this late stage during differentiation, T cells have a 1/2 chance of making the wrong random choice, and half of them die.

Also: "When these cells are infected with a virus (or another intracellular pathogen), the cells degrade foreign proteins via antigen processing." This is misleading: cells degrade all the time their proteins when they are recycled, not just when they are infected. Self peptides are presented on the surface of uninfected or infected cells, but T cells that could recognize these are destroyed during negative selection in the thymus. However, new, pathogen-derived peptides are presented on the surface of infected cells, and there is a proportion of immuno-competent mature T cells that can recognize these and hence detroy the infected cells. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.77.192.140 (talk) 16:28, 9 March 2010 (UTC)

Yes, I erased this diagram 2 hours ago because it is deeply wrong. Lymphocytes do not differentiate to CD4+ or CD8+ on the periphery, this is a solely thymic process. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.130.117.142 (talk) 17:43, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

 * Four people have now contested the accuracy of the diagram reproduced on the right, both in this thread and in this thread at Talk:T helper cell. The problem seems to be summarized in this edit summary by 78.130.117.142.  I don't have the knowledge or sources to fix this myself, so for now I'm removing the diagram from the six articles that have it, and I'll notify the MCB and Medicine Wikiprojects.  Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 13:03, 22 January 2011 (UTC)

 * Actually, it is not well interpreted in the edit you are mentioning. There are two different processes that people here mixed together. First one is T-lypmhocyte differenciation which take place in the thymus and during which only cells recognizing foreign antigen are selected. Double positive CD4+/CD8+ thymocytes enter the thymus and leave as immature T-lymphocytes (either CD4+ or CD8+). Second process is T-lymphocyte maturation which occur at perifery or in lymph nodes. APC cell presents antigens on MHCII to immature CD4+ T-cell which then maturate to TH1 or TH2. Or an infected cell presents foreign antigens on MHCI to CD8+ immature T-cell which then becomes TC.

 * So if this figure describes process of maturation, I suggest to either add text "CD4+ or CD8+" under the "Immature T cell", or to make a mirror figure - On one side APC with MHCII and leaving only Mature helper T cell, and on other side Infected cell with MHCI leaving the Mature cytotoxic T cell. --Mashin6 (talk) 00:35, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

 * I've restored the picture to all six articles following Mashin6's excellent fix. Note that due to the image being updated under the same name, the image that's showing in this thread is Mashin6's fixed version, not the disputed version that I removed.  Adrian J. Hunter(talk•contribs) 11:49, 24 April 2011 (UTC)

Killer T cells and the thymus
I want to know what is the relationship between Killer T cells and the thymus. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.252.155.69 (talk) 18:07, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

 * That's explained in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cytotoxic_T_cell#Development but I can understand how that might be unclear to the general reader. I was working on it, and I'll try to make it clearer. --Nbauman (talk) 14:34, 29 June 2012 (UTC)

Positive Selection
I thought Positive selection was when T-cells in the thymus are selected based on their TCR for their ability to recognize MHC class molecules. The article makes it seem like positive selection kills off those T-cells that bind too weakly, which does occur, but that is not positive selection I believe.

bruh cells
bruh, the cells r epic — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.24.214.142 (talk) 14:56, 28 January 2021 (UTC)

Activation Section Discrepancy
The second paragraph of the activation section currently says: "The threshold for activation of these cells is very high, and the process can occur via two pathways: thymus-independent (by infected APCs) or thymodependent (by CD4+ T cells). In the thymus-dependent pathway, because the APC is infected, it is highly activated and expresses a large number of co-receptors for coactivation. If APCs are not infected, CD4 cells need to be involved…"

In the second sentence, shouldn’t it say "thymus-independent" instead of "thymus-dependent"? It continues to say “because the APC is infected” and in the first sentence of the paragraph it says "thymus-independent (by infected APCs)". Also, in the third sentence it continues by saying “If APCs are not infected, CD4 cells need to be involved”, implying this is the alternate thymus-independent pathway even though the first sentence says “thymodependent (by CD4+ T cells)”. A bit confusing if you ask me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by CarlosArceDeza (talk • contribs) 16:36, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Cytotoxic T cell


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USS Bluefish

Two ships of the United States Navy have borne the name USS Bluefish, after the bluefish (Pomatomus saltatrix).

 * USS Bluefish (SS-222), was a Gato-class submarine, commissioned in 1943 and struck in 1959.
 * USS Bluefish (SSN-675), was a Sturgeon-class submarine, commissioned in 1971 and struck in 1996.

title: USS Bluefish


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User talk:Gorbachev8909

Spelling re: Syrranites
Good work on the Syrranites article. You might want to check the Vulcans article if you haven't already done so for cross-reference links. BTW I'm not sure if the spelling with one N is correct. It looks like official publicity from Paramount spells it Syrrannites with two N's...23skidoo 00:16, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Gorbachev8909


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Talk:Warring States period

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This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): EvanS11.

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Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article is or was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Bgrae.

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Sun Bin
I'm pretty sure that Sun Bun should be Sun Bin --Sudasana 00:18, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * You're right. There's not even such a syllable as bun in Mandarin. Be bold next time and change it yourself! :-) --Menchi 00:40, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Sun Bin is a descendant of Sun Wu, a famous military strategist during the Warring States Period. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Klott tt (talk • contribs) 04:05, 13 October 2020 (UTC)

Title
I think "Warring States Period" is not an appropriate term. The "State" define here is indeed a kingdom, more appropriate, these are independent country that are not taking order from the Zhou dynasty King. The situation is simulat to the period of 3 kingdom. Do take note that ancient Chinese scholar love to play with word. sltan

 * Warring States = Zhan Guo. Guo= state. -- Миборовский U 04:56, 16 February 2006 (UTC)

 * state does not always mean a smaller, dependent political entity within a federation; state is also used to refer to independent political entities, and can mean 'sovreign nation'. Warring States is a perfectly acceptable translation of 戰國.  Also, please take note that Chinese scholars do not have a monopoly on word play.--Baoluo 08:20, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Missing Citations and References
Why would a B class article have missing citations? 12.144.116.172 16:36, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

As part of an assignment for a class I added a few citations. I'm new to Wikipedia so please fix my formatting if needed. The references section looks really messy now too, but I'm not sure how to mix inline and general citations. --Regato210 (talk) 02:37, 21 July 2009 (UTC)

translation of 戰國七雄
How did you get 'hegemonial' from '雄'. Firstly, I don't think hegemonial is even a word, and secondly, '雄' is usually translated as hero, or heroic. I could be wrong, so I'll wait a day or two before changing this.--Baoluo 08:20, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

'雄' actually means 'strong' that's also what 'hero' originally means in chinese. '戰國七雄' means seven main forces in the period, there is also other minor state in this period. -- 21:20, 25 Aug 2006 (UTC)

I have to agree with Baoluo's assessment about 戰國七雄. The '雄' implies "leading" or "heroic" but in the context of the statement, it would mean "Warring States of the 7 Leading Factions". (Psychoneko 06:28, 12 February 2007 (UTC))

..."±800 years after..." and "warring states"
Do you actually realise what ± means? It seems that whoever wrote this article meant to say "approximately" or "about" instead of "±", but maybe not. "±800 years after" means that it was either exactly 800 years before the end or exactly 800 years after. I don't know enough about Chinese history to know for sure what the intended meaning was, but if this really should say "approximately 800 years after", could you please change it.

In response to the complaint about calling it "warring states period", you should shut up and put up. It has always been called the warring states period and if you want it to be called "warring kingdoms", too bad. If you suddenly changed the name of the period now, it would bring widespread confusion and it's unecessary anyway. Also, I doubt that you fully understand the meaning of "state". A state is not just something similar to a county or province; it can be used to describe a whole country, such as the state of Israel, so the name "warring states period" is indeed correct

The confusing part about Warring States is that it occured twice, in China and Japan. Shame they didnt name it differently. AlexFili (talk) 12:17, 28 May 2008 (UTC)

oldest known military strategy Guide
"...The Art of War which is recognized today as the most influential, and oldest known military strategy guide."

Is this the oldest? I thought the Book of Six Strategies, or Liu Tao(六韬) by Jiang Ziya (姜子牙 ) is the oldest since the book dated back to before 1046BC.12.47.110.46 21:28, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

"the dagger-axe came in various length from 9–18 ft"
That's alot of guesstimating right there. 9 and 18 feet are a huge difference. I can't imageing that this is correct

I'm guessing whoever wrote that took it from here: http://books.google.com/books?id=uWwU8kJndD0C&pg=PA7&dq=Ancient+Chinese+Warfare+dagger-axe&hl=en&sa=X&ei=VXIZUZiVDKm20QGS9oCoCQ&ved=0CEgQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q=Ancient%20Chinese%20Warfare%20dagger-axe&f=false on page 14: "Spears and Dagger-axes fell into two groups, one about nine feet long, the other around 18 feet". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 130.245.230.67 (talk) 22:56, 11 February 2013 (UTC)

My Last Edit Summary On Warring States Period
Forgot to put a question mark, but I meant too, finger slipped and pressed enter.68.148.164.166 (talk) 09:56, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Army numbers
These numbers are RIDICULOUSLY huge. You're telling me a mere state which probably only has at most a few million subjects, is capable of sustaining armies that number in the hundreds of thousands? The ancient Persians and Romans, who had more territory and resources than some of these Chinese states did, never fielded armies in such large numbers. PLEASE SITE A REFERENCE, otherwise I am only considering it to be numbers being pulled out of thin air. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.42.45.213 (talk) 04:12, 5 July 2009 (UTC)
 * Samuel B. Griffith's commentary in his translation of The Art of War notes they were peasant armies in the Spring & Autumn period where the campaigns could not interfere with planting or harvesting (ie war only in Summer or Winter) so 100K armies would have been doable, merely from one city alone. Then in Warring States period, there were professionalized armies with a levee of one soldier out of 4 or 8 farmers who would be responsible of the planting & harvesting of the draftee's farm. Again, the numbers are not unreasonable. --Ancheta Wis (talk) 00:36, 3 April 2010 (UTC)

Date of Chu conquest
The change has been restored until we get better information. As I understand it: in 383-260 the states weakened each other in mutual wars. In 230-221 Qin conquered the other states (see "Qin's conquest.." section). As for Chu, 223 was the date in 230-221 when it was conquered by Qin. 278 was the date when it was defeated by Qin and its capital captured (see Chu (state)) and therefore belongs in the series of dates when each of the states was seriously weakened. The statement that only Zhao and Qin were left as major powers comes from the Cambridge History of Ancient China, page 638. The Cambridge History seems to be the only available large-scale history of the period in English, but it is mostly non-narrative. A clear history of Chu is especially hard to extract. I plan to update the Chu section of 'Warring States' in a week or so. (I put 278 in the summary section before updating the Chu section, which is out of place anyway, which may explain the problem.)Benjamin Trovato (talk) 23:37, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Sorry, but I am not happy with you hijacking this article. As you have admitted, you don't speak Chinese and your only source is The Cambridge History of China. Chu was not conquered in 278. The capital Ying was. The state capital then moved to Chen. Chu was a large state and much territory still remained thereafter. It is your responsibility to cite the sources for your changes, not for me "to wait until we get better information". Check any other history book in English or Chinese and you will find that the Cambridge History of China is the only one that makes this claim. Wikipedia's policy is one of NPOV - what you are doing is refuting the entire accepted history of Chu after 278 BCE. Philg88 (talk) 05:39, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Philg88 has asked me to weigh in on some sort of dispute regarding the date of the destruction of Chu. I've looked through this page's revision history as well as the one at Chu (state), but I'm not entirely certain what the dispute is....  You both seem to agree that Chu's capital was taken in 278 BC and then the state was fully conquered in 223 BC.  What exactly do you two want me to weigh in on?   White Whirlwind  咨   16:17, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * er ... This:

The period of Zhao (284-260) ''After Chu was defeated in 278, the remaining great powers were Qin in the west and Zhao in the north-center. With only two powers there was little room for diplomatic maneuver and matters were decided by war in 265-260. Zhao had been much strengthened by King Wuling of Zhao (325-299).'' This implies that Chu did not exist after 278 Philg88 (talk) 22:12, 23 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I agree that the phrase 'With only two powers' is misleading and should be deleted. Phil must be seeing some problem that I don't see. Is there a better English source than the Cambridge History? Benjamin Trovato (talk) 01:55, 24 October 2010 (UTC)
 * I suggest we revise the lines in question, as Philg88 has the correct information for this case. I would be surprised if the C.H.of.A.C. would give erroneous (or just unclear) dates: are you sure you've read them right, Benjamin Trovato?  It's quite a reliable book in general....
 * This is one of those cases where, because the topics are chronology and archaeology, a Chinese source would probably be superior to any English one. Maybe Feng Zhiming's Chu Guo Wang Shi 楚国往事?   White Whirlwind  咨   08:36, 25 October 2010 (UTC)
 * How about the Zhanguoce? When I get a minute I will check the relative period. Philg88 (talk) 08:49, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Revamp? Translate?
The article in its current form is unacceptably poor. While it contains some good material, the organization and formatting of the chronological history section looks like it was done by monkeys on meth-amphetamine. I'd like to do a revamp with Philg88 and whomever else is interested. I can translate material over from the Chinese version (which is quite well-formatted), though it's not terribly well-cited. I'd like someone to re-do the historical sections, while I re-do the culture sections, augmenting with material from the Chinese version.  White Whirlwind  咨   13:56, 31 October 2010 (UTC)
 * Good suggestion White Whirlwind. This article is long overdue for a revamp. Looking at the Chinese page, their focus is different from the English page. Here is a quick translation for non-Chinese readers

1 歷史 1. History 1.1 起始年份爭議之說 1.1 Controversy over dates 1.2 七強並立形勢的形成 1.2 Formation of the Seven Hero States 1.3 戰國前期各國的變法改革 1.3 Early stage political reforms 1.4 合縱連橫和戰爭的變化 1.4 Impact of the School of Diplomacy on warfare 1.5 秦的統一 1.5 Unification of Qin 2 文化 2 Culture 3 经济 3 Economy 3.1 土地私有化 3.1 Land privatization 3.2 农业 3.2 Agriculture 3.3 水利 3.3 Irrigation schemes 3.4 农作物以及漆园、果园等的分布 3.4 Farm crops and the distribution of orchards 3.4.1 粮食作物的种类 3.4.1 Types of grain crops 3.4.2 土壤分辨和田地的等级 3.4.2 Soil types and field ratings 3.4.3 粮食作物的分布 3.4.3 Distribution of grain crops 3.4.4 蚕桑业的发展及麻的分布 3.4.4 Development of sericulture and hemp production 3.5 农业生产技术 3.5 Farming production technology 3.6 农业生产、管理及政策 3.6 Agricultural production management & policy 3.7 手工业 3.7 Handicrafts 3.8 商业 3.8 Commerce 4 技术 4 Technology 4.1 农业技术 4.1 Agricultural Technology 5 相关条目 5. See also 6 参考文献 6 References 7 外部链接 7. External links

 * The layout is nicely structured and can be improved on by incorporating the history stuff (rewritten) from the current English page with additional sections where appropriate. My suggestion is that we translate the Chinese page first then incorporate the stuff needed from the English article. As more than one person will be doing the work I suggest we first create a Sandbox page (where?) on which the Chinese article is duplicated. Editors can tag a section - "I'm working on this" then paste in the translated text when they've finished. This should avoid duplication of effort. Look forward to comments. Philg88 (talk) 21:43, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

 * It might be easiest to use one of our own sandboxes. Mine is at User:White_whirlwind/Sandbox, and you can switch out your own user name to access (or create) your own.   White Whirlwind  咨   10:54, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * OK, but let's use a single sandbox (I suggest a sub-page of your current one) to avoid duplication of effort. Ready to start when you are. Philg88 (talk) 21:01, 1 November 2010 (UTC)
 * A sandbox has been set up at User:White_whirlwind/Sandbox-WarringStates, so let's dive in.  White Whirlwind  咨   05:15, 5 November 2010 (UTC)

 * OK. You guys seem to see a problem that I can't see. Therefore I will drop out. Note that the change will turn the article into an Annales School description of a cultural period and reduce the narrative history of dates, kings and battles. For my part, I would rather understand how a state system breaks down than learn about the distribution of orchards. At some point we may need to add another article for military and diplomatic history.Benjamin Trovato (talk) 02:20, 2 November 2010 (UTC)
 * Hi Benjamin, fear not the intention is not to remove anything that is currently in the article - just to improve what's there and expand its scope. Sure, if it gets too long then the Military and Diplomatic histories can split out into their own pages. Best Philg88 (talk) 02:24, 2 November 2010 (UTC)

 * User:Benjamin Trovato:"the change will turn the article into an Annales School of description..." Where did that come from? We just need to reorganize the information that's in the article and format it properly.  If one printed this article out in its current state and submitted it to any academic setting or a professional encyclopedia (plagiarism stuff aside), it would be rejected immediately.  Sure, Philg88 and I will add information from Chinese languages sources, but that's just to improve the article and diversify the sourcing.  I do agree that as the article matures we'll need military and literary spin-off articles that are more in-depth.  There have been volumes written on those subjects in Chinese for over a millennium, so they certainly deserve some treatment.   White Whirlwind  咨   05:06, 5 November 2010 (UTC)
 * I think I see part of the problem. Traditionally historians wrote a narrative history of kings and battles with degressions on society and culture when these were needed. Over the last seventy-five years the fashion, associated with the Annales School, is to write a syncroneous description of society and culture which treats war and politics as superficial. Many people think this fashion has gone too far, but the proper way of merging the two methods is not clear. The method of writing long blocks of prose is supported by centuries of experience, but, to some extent, it is imposed on us by the physical properties of print. The system of wikilinks strikes me as a major improvement over the old method of searching an index or going to another book. In a block of continuous prose the reader must find the main points and put the details to one side. Good writers can keep the main points prominent, but many lack this skill. Links can move details out of the way. When writing for the web I like to use summaries, paragraph headers and bold face to keep the main points prominent. (Look at The Ruin (Ukrainian history) and see if you could rewrite it as a block of prose without loss of clarity.) Writing for the web probably requires a different style from print, but the exact differences are not clear. I added two new sections that I thought were necessary. I do not intend to add any more.Benjamin Trovato (talk) 11:21, 23 January 2011 (UTC)

Inconsistent dating protocol
Wei defeated by Qin (370-340)

All dates under this heading should clearly indicate BC as do the others just above and below it. Under this heading some dates are referenced as BC and others are not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.84.183.252 (talk) 19:37, 2 February 2012 (UTC)

What started the Warring States Period in China?
Yes this article tell alot about what happened and what the aftermath of it was, but it never once tells you what led to Warring States Period in China. If your going to write something informal about an event you also need to inform the reasons of why it happened/what started it.and i also agree that the name should not be changed then if someone wanted to know about the Warring States Period they would not be able to find it because the name would be changed and it would cause confusion throughout the world and it would cost way to much money to change the name in school book across world. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 168.184.240.45 (talk) 17:10, 19 April 2012 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: Move. Jafeluv (talk) 07:24, 28 May 2012 (UTC)

– Lower case "period" is more common in English-language books on Chinese history. Kanguole 22:48, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Warring States Period → Warring States period
 * Spring and Autumn Period → Spring and Autumn period
 * Three Kingdoms Period → Three Kingdoms period
 * Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms Period → Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdoms period

 * Support. I found Kanguole's assertion to be correct when looking at these five ngrams:, , , , . Jenks24 (talk) 00:39, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Support. Accord with usage, along with the Wikipedia presumption of lower case by default (see WP:MOSCAPS). N oetica Tea? 01:20, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Support. Seems fine. I'd like to note that a few of the books I glanced through when checking this even omit "period" altogether in many instances, following the original Chinese.  See Stephen Owen (1996), for example.   White Whirlwind  咨   03:51, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Weak oppose on the basis "if it ain't broke don't fix it". A quick search of Google books here shows upper case "Period" in the majority (and one entry even shows "spring and autumn Period"). If the move goes ahead then technically by extension "Dynasty" should be in lower case too and somehow "Qing dynasty" doesn't look right.► Philg88 ◄ star.png 07:21, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I suggest checking out the ngram links I provided, they are a much more accurate way of using gbooks. Regarding the Qing (D/d)ynasty, you may be interested to know that the Egyptian dynasty articles have recently been downcased. Jenks24 (talk) 16:38, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * I agree in general terms, Jenks. But see how ngram evidence like Warring States Period was,Warring States period was does an even better job of discriminating, because it excludes more title-case occurrences. Such capitalisation (in headings and the like) is irrelevant here, and indeed misleading. N oetica Tea? 01:05, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Oh yes, I fully agree that your ngram is even more useful. Jenks24 (talk) 15:02, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Note also that some books capitalize most words in section titles, but use lower case in the text. Actually the Egyptian dynasties were recently upcased based on usage in that field, but lower case is more common in histories of China.  Kanguole 16:49, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Huh, thanks for catching that, Kanguole. I must have misremembered. Jenks24 (talk) 15:02, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes, the lower-case preference is much more common in the particular instance of "dynasty" in the Chinese field. This has come up before.  I sympathize with the opposition because I personally find "Dynasty" to be much more natural based on English's proper noun rules, but the sources are pretty clear on this one.   White Whirlwind  咨   22:12, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
 * Suggest: Someone should check a proofreader's manual of style (preferably several) and see if there is a rule. My guess: Upper-upper is a proper noun. Upper-lower is a noun used as an adjective. "The New York Deli is the best New York deli." It seems to depend on whether "period" is part of a compound proper noun. Also, are we going to fix "Han Dynasty"? It not, what is the rule?Benjamin Trovato (talk) 06:19, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The Period of Qi: 285 BC Death of King Min Descrepancy
The paragraph summarizing this year states: "Qi's armies were destroyed and the King Min was slain. [...] King Min himself was later captured and executed by his own followers". The fate of King Min is rather unclear. - DC, 25/8/13 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.230.35.214 (talk) 23:25, 24 August 2013 (UTC)

BC --> BCE & AD --> CE
The article has been written using BC and AD but these terms feel a bit antiquated and culturally irrelevant for ancient China, how would folks feel about switching to BCE and CE? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 204.187.55.30 (talk) 15:58, 22 September 2013 (UTC)
 * I personally prefer it as it is now (BC/AD). According to WP:ERA there needs to be a compelling reason for a change.   White Whirlwind  咨   21:26, 22 September 2013 (UTC)

256 / 249 BC - What happened to the Zhou-Dynasty?
In this article I am missing the years 256 BC and 249 BC, when the West Zhou Dynasty was annihilated by the Qin.

I think this annihilation of the West Zhou Dynasty was an important precondition for founding a new Dynasty by the Qin and should be metioned and discussed (shortly) in this article. (By the way, it is a topic in the French version) — Preceding unsigned comment added by WeiservomBerg (talk • contribs) 11:06, 11 November 2013 (UTC)

So, what is your oppinion?

--WeiservomBerg (talk) 20:53, 10 November 2013 (UTC)

"sophisticated arithmetic"
The claim that a multiplication table constitutes sophisticated arithmetic is ridiculous. The fact that multiplication was used, even with fractions or any other bells and whistles, does not warrant the use of the word sophisticated. Multiplication is a quite rudimentary arithmetic operation. It has been present in human writing since the earliest of times, such as in Mesopotamia, and it's earliest occurrence in writing is over one thousand years prior to the bamboo strips. They can therefore be classified as quite typical. In terms of mathematics, 305 BC is contemporary with Euclid and a host of other mathematicians who were concerned with significantly more sophisticated mathematical endeavors than multiplying numbers.

The use of the word "sophisticated" is part of a false portrayal of the ancient Chinese and an exaggeration of their achievements. After all, the table is not "sophisticated" by any modern or by any ancient measure, they are "sophisticated" by the standards of someone who is either baffled by the complexity of multiplication (that is, an idiot) or someone who believes that the ancient Chinese were particularly spectacular as a whole (a fanboy).

90.130.230.125 (talk) 07:38, 9 August 2014 (UTC)

Rewrite needed
This article's prose is presently either nonexistent or in a very poor state, and nobody seems to be actively working on it. I have some free time in October and may do a rewrite based mainly on Lewis' chapter in CHAC.  White Whirlwind  咨   17:17, 15 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Totally agree, and thanks for taking the initiative. I also have the book and may be able to help a bit. -Zanhe (talk) 22:59, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

Chinese religion during the Warring States
Title Early Chinese Religion: Part One: Shang Through Han (1250 BC-220 AD) (2 Vols) Early Chinese Religion Editors John Lagerwey, Marc Kalinowski Publisher BRILL, 2008 ISBN 9004168354, 9789004168350

http://books.google.com/books?id=Idhyr1hqS0kC&printsec=frontcover&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0#v=onepage&q&f=false

Rajmaan (talk) 19:25, 8 October 2014 (UTC)

Map of the states during the Warring States period

I don't see the state of Wu in the map. In this map, the location of the state of Yue is in the modern-day Jiangsu which is supposed to be that of the state of Wu. This map should be replaced. Gustmeister (talk) 12:17, 1 April 2018 (UTC)

 * Wu was conquered by Yue near the end of the Spring and Autumn period, and no longer existed during the Warring States. -Zanhe (talk) 17:48, 1 April 2018 (UTC)
 * You are right. I was confused between this map and an another map depicting Chinese plain at the start of the Warring States Period in the 5th century BC . After reading their descriptions more careful, it seems that they describe two periods of time that are slightly different from each other, i.e. this map is about the early Warring States period, whereas this map  describes territories at the start of the Warring States. Gustmeister (talk) 06:49, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

Start year given in Mohism article (476) differs from year given here (475).
As of 2021DEC26 @ 17:40 GMT:

The English language article on Mohism refers to the Warring States period begining in 476 BCE.

This article (Warring States period) gives the start year as 475 BCE.

Could someone who knows whether it is even possible to pick a "better answer" please "correct" whichever article is "wrong"?

I encountered this while trying to make a tiny improvement to the article on inertia.

2601:1C1:C100:D710:205A:2CD:4C1B:BADA (talk) 17:54, 26 December 2021 (UTC) A. Nony Mouse

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 06:37, 8 January 2022 (UTC)
 * 長方盾.jpg

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 03:49, 4 July 2022 (UTC)
 * 青銅器, 戰國, 爵杯, 夏商周, ritual bronzes age, the Warring States, Wine Vessel, Jue Cup, 016.jpg

title: Talk:Warring States period


text:
User talk:Sudasana

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --Flockmeal 00:17, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

title: User talk:Sudasana


text:
Category talk:Stars

Subcategorization

 * http://vizier.u-strasbg.fr/cgi-bin/Otype

Category: List of stars

 * WikiProject Astronomical objects
 * Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Astronomical objects
 * Astronomical object
 * Astronomical naming conventions
 * User talk
 * User talk:132.205.15.43
 * User talk:Hadal
 * User talk:Diberri
 * User talk:JYolkowski
 * collation by 132.205.94.190 00:37, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Please stop and discuss at Category talk:Stars. I left you a message at User talk:132.205.95.65. --David Iberri | Talk 00:03, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * Why are you moving articles from Category:Stars to Category:List of stars. Articles about stars, e.g. 14 Herculis, belong in Category:Stars, just like an article on a particular frog, e.g. Leopard frog, belongs in Category:Frogs. Please discuss these changes before you make any more. --David Iberri | Talk 23:58, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)
 * This category contains article about taxa about the family level in the order Anura - the frogs and toads. According to the Category:Frogs statement, only articles in the Family (biology) level of frogs should be there, not the genera or species level articles. If it were to be similar to the frogs category, then individual stars would still not appear on Category:Stars page. 132.205.94.190 00:45, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Hi; are you sure changing Category:Stars to Category:List of stars is such a wise move? Categories are not lists, so naming a category a list is rather silly, don't you think? We don't have "Article about Tony Blair", for example. -- Hadal 05:53, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, I was thinking about it, and the Category Stars page is getting long, longer with each new star, so that the articles that aren't about a particular star are getting lost there. So separating out the stars into "List of stars" seemed to be a bright idea. I'll stop and let you think about it. 132.205.15.43 05:55, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Okay, now I understand what you're trying to do. But is there no better way of subcategorising the stars? There's already a Category:Binary stars for entries like Castor (star), and a Category:Star systems for entires like Beta Hydri. If the stars are already in a subcategory, there's no need to put them in the main Stars category or another subcategory like "List of stars", is there? -- Hadal 06:06, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * If we wish to have a category for all stars, regardless of type, then there'll be a list of them in one place. OFcourse that could be that we choose not to do that, but Category Stars does that now, so just moving it keeps it as status quo. It also clears up the main category, so you can format it some other way, instead of a dump of stars. Putting stars by type is a good idea, but probably stars by constellation would be better for an amateur stargazer? In any case, either way, a lot of new categories would be required. 132.205.15.43 23:10, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Although thinking about it, should there be a sub-cat under constellation stars for the stars that actually mark the outline of the constellation?
 * I understand you're trying to unclutter the main Stars category, but making a "List of stars" to sweep them under the carpet isn't the best course of action, IMHO. If a star is already in a subcategory of Category:Stars, it doesn't need to be in the main category. For example, Castor is already in Star systems > Multiple stars, so it needn't be at Stars or List of stars. I do understand your reasoning, but as I tried to explain the other day, categories are not meant to play the role of lists. By moving them to List of stars, you're just creating another unstructured dump, which isn't what a category should be like. There should be structure, as with the frogs; by type seems the most logical, though I can't really say whether outlines of constellations would be appropriate or not. Perhaps it'd be best to wait for more input from the regular astronomy contributors? I'm not one of them (I've only written one astronomy-themed article to date): I've merely an interest in the subject and saw your edits scroll by on RC. Reviewing this collated page, however, it seems I'm not the only one who thinks the categorisation should be done differently. I do appreciate your efforts, but I think waiting for some semblance of consensus might be wise, lest we waste more time recategorising. -- Hadal 03:12, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Currently, star clusters don't appear on the main Category:Stars page, and are properly place within. The move of stars off the main category page atleast makes navigation easier to use while a more practicable solution is determined. It also easily complements the list of stars article. Leaving it as is seems to be the less navigatable way of doing it, while waiting for a categorization scheme to drop into place. 132.205.94.190 03:57, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Hi again, thanks for your work on categorisation.  I notice you've been doing the same thing to Category:Galaxies as Category:Stars so I thought I'd append my comment to this thread. I agree with what you said, but instead of moving the galaxy articles to Category:List of galaxies, wouldn't it be better to move the articles about types of galaxies to Category:Types of galaxies or something like that?  That way it cleans up the galaxy category, and everything's symantically correct.  We could do the same thing with stars too. JYolkowski 22:01, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * The problem with galaxies is that not everyone has an agreed hubble type to everyone of them, and some have different types depending on which authority you use. And some galaxies don't have a type, since one has not been decided yet, or because the observed details lack sufficient elucidation to place a galaxy. Also there are two major classification systems, the de Vaucoulier (sp?) method and the Hubble method. Wikipedia doesn't seem to have any articles on the former, which is a pity, since it is used so much. So a list of galaxies seems somewhat advisable. I did put a note saying that anyone should categorize galaxies otherwise as well. (Galaxies by constellation, galaxies by cluster, galaxies by type). 132.205.15.43 23:15, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * What I meant was to use Category:Galaxies for articles on actual galaxies, articles like Spiral Galaxy NGC 2403 and to use Category:Types of galaxies for articles like Elliptical galaxy and Lenticular galaxy and stuff like that. Make sense? JYolkowski 23:41, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * The trouble there is that there are articles about galaxies that do not pertain to a specific type of galaxy, or that would otherwise not merit inclusion into a Category Types of galaxies. 132.205.15.43 23:48, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I've placed a query at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Astronomical objects for this issue. 132.205.15.43 04:52, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Category list of stars and list of galaxies placed under CfD. 132.205.15.43 00:53, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)

title: Category talk:Stars


text:
Grandes Jorasses

The Grandes Jorasses (4,208 m; 13,806 ft) is a mountain in the Mont Blanc massif, on the boundary between Haute-Savoie in France and Aosta Valley in Italy.

The first ascent of the highest peak of the mountain (Pointe Walker) was by Horace Walker with guides Melchior Anderegg, Johann Jaun and Julien Grange on 30 June 1868. The second-highest peak on the mountain (Pointe Whymper, 4,184 m; 13,727 ft) was first climbed by Edward Whymper, Christian Almer, Michel Croz and Franz Biner on 24 June 1865, using what has become the normal route of ascent and the one followed by Walker's party in 1868.

Geography
The summits on the mountain (from east to west) are:
 * Pointe Walker (4,208 m; 13,806 ft) – named after Horace Walker, who made the first ascent of the mountain
 * Pointe Whymper (4,184 m; 13,727 ft) – named after Edward Whymper, who made the first ascent of this, the second-highest summit
 * Pointe Croz (4,110 m; 13,484 ft) – named after Michel Croz, a guide from Chamonix
 * Pointe Hélène (4,045 m; 13,271 ft) – named after Princess Elena
 * Pointe Marguerite (4,065 m; 13,337) – named after Queen Margherita
 * Pointe Young (3,996 m; 13,110 ft) – named after Geoffrey Winthrop Young

North face
Located on the French side of the mountain, the north face is one of the three great north faces of the Alps, along with the north faces of the Eiger and the Matterhorn (known as 'the Trilogy'). One of the most famous walls in the Alps, it towers 1200 m (3,900 ft) above the Leschaux Glacier, stretching 1 km from end to end. The classic route on the face is the Walker Spur (Cassin/Esposito/Tizzoni, 1938, TD+/ED1, IV, 5c/6a, A1, 1200 m) which leads directly to the summit of Pointe Walker. The other major buttress on the mountain is the Croz Spur, which leads to the summit of Pointe Croz. In her solo ascents of the six most difficult north faces of the Alps, Alison Hargreaves chose this route in preference to the Walker Spur.

Reinhold Messner has stated, that he made the decision to ascend Mount Everest with Peter Habeler in the Grandes Jorasses, where Peter "descended like a dancer".

South face
On the Italian side of the mountain, the south face can be accessed from the Boccalatte cabin, above the hamlet of Planpincieux in the Italian Val Ferret, part of the Courmayeur municipality.

Summit ridge
From the Col des Hirondelles, the summit ridge connects Pt. Walker to the other summit points and then descends to the Col des Grandes Jorasses where a bivouac shelter is located - the Bivouac E Canzio hut. The ridge forms the French-Italian border, almost all of which is above 4,000 m (13,000 ft).

title: Grandes Jorasses


text:
Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Gabriel Uzquiano

There is no way this should be deleted. It is not harmful that people express their opinions about the page. The content of the page in question has disappeared, so the potential harm to Gabriel is ended.Dr Zen 00:21, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The potential harm is by no means ended. This page contains two flagrant and harmful mistakes: (i) it implies that Gabriel is basque; (ii) it suggests that the original page might have been a vanity page. Please, please, please, delete it. 11 dec 2004


text:
Unsane (band)

Unsane is an American noise rock trio that was formed in New York City in 1988. Its music touches on elements of hardcore punk and metal. The writer Patrick Kennedy wrote, "While developing the blueprint for noise-metal bands to follow, Unsane cut a remarkable swath through underground music, inspiring a devoted, cult-like following around the world."

History
In 1988, the singer/guitarist Chris Spencer, bass guitarist Pete Shore and drummer Charlie Ondras were students at Sarah Lawrence College when they formed Lawn-Chair-Blisters before changing the name to Unsane. The band signed to Circuit Records and recorded tracks with Wharton Tiers for what was supposed to be their first album Improvised Munitions, but the label did not release it.

Unsane became part of the scene of loud, noisy, like-minded rock groups in New York City's East Village in the early 1990s. They often played gigs with bands like Pussy Galore, Cop Shoot Cop, Surgery, Helmet and the Reverb Motherfuckers. Members of Unsane also played in other bands such as Boss Hog and the Action Swingers.

The band's first album, Unsane, was released in 1991, and was known for its harsh music and gruesome cover art with a photo of a decapitated man on a New York subway track wearing a Members Only jacket. The band obtained this photograph from a friend who was working at the time with the police department, which was investigating the scene of the accident.

In 1992, Ondras died of a heroin overdose and was replaced by Vincent Signorelli (formerly of Foetus and Swans). In 1994, Shore left the band for unknown reasons and was replaced by Dave Curran.

The band toured heavily, and released Total Destruction in 1993 on Matador Records/Atlantic Records. Their third album, Scattered, Smothered & Covered, was issued by Amphetamine Reptile in 1995. The music video for the song "Scrape", made for a mere $200, had significant play on MTV. The video alternates between lo-fi rehearsal footage of Unsane and a series of serious skateboarding wipeouts.

The band continued touring heavily (including a spell opening for Slayer). Their next album, Occupational Hazard, was released by Relapse Records in 1998. Later that same year, Spencer was attacked by four people after playing a concert in Vienna, Austria. He was hospitalized with internal bleeding and underwent major surgery. As a result of his injury, and having toured over ten months of the year, the band decided to take a long break in 2000.

Unsane regrouped in 2003 and released the CD/DVD compilation Lambhouse: The Collection 1991-1998 the same year. This was followed by their fifth album, Blood Run, in 2005. Ipecac released the band's sixth studio album, Visqueen, in 2007. Their song "Committed" was used in the Activision/Neversoft video game Tony Hawk's Pro Skater. Another Activision title, True Crime: New York City, uses the song "D Train".

Unsane released their seventh album Wreck on March 20, 2012, and toured with Melvins in April and May that year.

Unsane released their eighth studio album Sterilize on September 29, 2017.

In 2019, Spencer announced the formation of a new band, Human Impact, with ex-Swans members Phil Puleo and Chris Pravdica. Spencer subsequently announced his departure from Unsane in August 2019, first in an interview about Human Impact with the Italian-language music zine Equilibrio Precario, and then in English in a comment on a Facebook post of the same article.

On August 27, 2021, Chris Spencer announced the formation of a new lineup of Unsane via the band's Instagram page, alongside new members Cooper and Jon Syverson, with the specific focus on performing the band's early material.

Activities outside the band
During the band's break between 2000 and 2003, Spencer moved to California where he formed a new band with Curran called The Cutthroats 9 and released an album on Man's Ruin Records. Curran formed J.J. Paradise Players Club and Signorelli opened a tattoo shop in Middle Village Queens.

Signorelli later formed A Storm of Light with Josh Graham (Neurosis, ex-Red Sparowes, Battle of Mice, Blood and Time) on guitar and vocals, Domenic Seita (ex-Tombs and Asea) on bass guitar, and Pete Angevine (Satanized) on additional drums and percussion. A Storm of Light spent most of the spring touring with Neurosis and they released their first album in 2008.

In 2008 Spencer formed the band Celan with Ari Benjamin Meyers (Redux Orchestra), Niko Wenner (Oxbow), Roeder and Xavi (both ex-flu-ID) and, in 2009, they released the well-reviewed album Halo on the Berlin label Exile on Mainstream Records and toured Europe. Spencer now plays in noise rock band, Human Impact.

In 2015 Spencer formed UXO with Steve Austin of Today is the Day, Aarne Victorine, and Pat Kennedy. The band released its self-titled album in 2016 on Reptilian Records.

In 2019 Spencer formed Human Impact with ex-members of Swans and Cop Shoot Cop and confirmed his departure from Unsane.

Current line-up

 * Chris Spencer – vocals, guitar (1988–2000, 2003–2019, 2021–present)
 * Cooper – bass (2021–present)
 * Jon Syverson – drums (2021–present)

Former members

 * Dave Curran - bass guitar (1994–2000, 2003–2019)
 * Vincent Signorelli - drums (1992–2000, 2003–2019)
 * Charlie Ondras - drums (1988–1992; died 1992)
 * Anthony DeLuca - drums (1992)
 * Pete Shore - bass guitar (1988–1994)

Studio albums

 * Unsane (Matador) - 1991
 * Total Destruction (Matador/Atlantic) - 1993
 * Scattered, Smothered & Covered (Amphetamine Reptile) - 1995
 * Occupational Hazard (Relapse) - 1998
 * Blood Run (Relapse) - 2005
 * Visqueen (Ipecac) - 2007
 * Wreck (Alternative Tentacles) - 2012
 * Sterilize (Southern Lord) - 2017

Compilation albums

 * Singles 89–92, LP/CD (Matador) - 1992
 * Lambhouse: The Collection 1991–1998 (Relapse) - 2003
 * Improvised Munitions & Demo (Lamb Unlimited) - 2021

Live albums

 * Peel Sessions (Matador) - 1994
 * Attack in Japan (Rebel) - 1995
 * Amrep Xmas (Man's Ruin) - 1997

Singles

 * "Scumbait #1" split with Cows, Pagans, Bastards (Unsane - "Burn") (Treehouse) - 1989
 * "This Town" single (Treehouse) - 1989
 * "Concrete Bed" single (Glitterhouse) - 1990
 * "Vandal-X"/"Streetsweeper" single (Sub Pop) - 1990
 * "Jungle Music" single (PCP) - 1991
 * Split 7" with Slug (cover of Slug's "Breathe the Thing Out") (Matador) - 1992
 * "Body Bomb" 7" red vinyl single (Matador) - 1994
 * "Sick"/"No Soul" single (Man's Ruin) - 1996
 * "Committed"/"Over Me" single (Galaxia) - 1998
 * "This Plan"/"Ha, Ha, Ha" single (DC Records) - 2001
 * "Fix It"/"Wrung" single for Bash 17 (Amphetamine Reptile Records) - July 2017

The Peel Sessions
The band recorded three sessions. The first two were released as an EP in 1994, while the third session remains unreleased.
 * May 21, 1991
 * November 26, 1992
 * June 7, 1994

title: Unsane (band)


text:
Danilo Turcios

Danilo Elvis Turcios Funez (born 8 May 1978) is a Honduran former professional football player and manager.

He was a member of the national squad at the 2000 Summer Olympics in Sydney, Australia and the 2010 FIFA World Cup in South Africa.

Club career
Nicknamed el Enano (the Dwarf) because of his short build, Turcios began his professional career with Universidad of his native Honduras in 1996, making his debut in the 1997 Apertura, then he played with F.C. Motagua winning his first Honduran championship before moving to Deportivo Maldonado of Uruguay in 2001. After a year with Maldonado, he moved to Defensor Sporting, where he would last even less time, moving later in the year to Peñarol.

Turcios moved on to the Liga MX México Primera División in 2004, signing with Estudiantes Tecos. After one season with the Guadalajara-based club, he returned home to Honduras to play with Olimpia. Outside of a one-season stint with Guatemalan side Comunicaciones in 2006, Turcios was a regular fixture in Olimpia's line-up from 2005 to 2012.

He signed with Atlanta Silverbacks of the North American Soccer League in February 2012. He played the 2012 Apertura season for Real Sociedad but left the club claiming they ended his contract and demanding money. He did not plan to retire after the season, hinting to a return to Motagua, which was later denied by the club.

He finally joined Honduran second division side UPNFM for the 2013 Clausura.

International career
Turcios made his debut for Honduras in a November 1999 friendly match against Trinidad & Tobago and has earned a total of 87 caps, scoring 7 goals. He has represented his country in 33 FIFA World Cup qualification matches, at the 2000 Summer Olympics and the 2010 FIFA World Cup. He also played at the 2001 and 2009 UNCAF Nations Cups as well as at the 2000, 2003 and 2005 CONCACAF Gold Cups. Also, he played at the 2001 Copa América.

His final international appearance was a June 2010 FIFA World Cup match against Switzerland.

Juticalpa F.C.
On 8 July 2019, it was reported that Turcios was named head coach of Juticalpa F.C. in the Honduran second division.

Honours and awards
CD Olimpia
 * Honduran Liga Nacional: 2004–05 C, 2005–06 A, 2005–06 C, 2007–08 C, 2008–09 C, 2009–10 C, 2011–12 A

Motagua
 * Honduran Liga Nacional: 2001–02 A

Honduras
 * CONCACAF Men's Olympic Qualifying Tournament: 2000

title: Danilo Turcios


text:
Possessive affix

In linguistics, a possessive affix (from affixum possessivum) is an affix (usually suffix or prefix) attached to a noun to indicate its possessor, much in the manner of possessive adjectives.

Possessive affixes are found in many languages of the world. The World Atlas of Language Structures lists 642 languages with possessive suffixes, possessive prefixes, or both out of a total sample of 902 languages. Possessive suffixes are found in some Austronesian, Uralic, Altaic, Semitic, and Indo-European languages. Complicated systems are found in the Uralic languages; for example, Nenets has 27 (3×3×3) different types of forms distinguish the possessor (first-, second- or third-person), the number of possessors (singular, dual or plural) and the number of objects (singular, dual or plural). That allows Nenets-speakers to express the phrase "we two's many houses" in one word. Mayan languages and Nahuan languages also have possessive prefixes.

Finnish
Finnish uses possessive suffixes. The number of possessors and their person can be distinguished for the singular and plural except for the third person. However, the construction hides the number of possessed objects when the singular objects are in nominative or genitive case and plural objects in nominative case since käteni may mean either "my hand" (subject or direct object), "of my hand" (genitive) or "my hands" (subject or direct object). For example, the following are the forms of talo (house), declined to show possession:

The grammatical cases are not affected by the possessive suffix except for the accusative case (-n or unmarked), which is left unmarked by anything other than the possessive suffix. The third-person suffix is used only if the possessor is the subject. For example, Mari maalasi talo nsa  "Mari painted her house", cf. the use of the genitive case in Toni maalasi Mari n talon "Toni painted Mari 's house". (The -n on the word talon is the accusative case, which is pronounced the same as the genitive case.)

For emphasis or clarification, the possessor can be given outside the word as well, using the genitive case. In this case, the possessive suffix remains. For example, my house can be taloni or minun taloni in which minun is the genitive form of the first-person singular pronoun.

Omission of the possessive suffix makes it possible to distinguish the plural for the possessed objects, but that is not considered proper language: mun käsi "my hand" vs. mun kädet "my hands". Systematic omission of possessive suffixes is found in Spoken Finnish, wherever a pronoun in the genitive is used, but that is found only in direct address: " Their coats are dry" is  Niiden takit on kuivia (niiden lit. "they's"). That can be contrasted with indirect possession, as in "They took their coats", in which the possessive suffix is used: Ne otti takki nsa . Even in proper Finnish, the pronouns sen and niiden, which are the demonstrative as well as inanimate forms of hänen and heidän, do not impose possessive suffixes except indirectly. It would be hypercorrect to say niiden talonsa. There is also a distinction in meaning in the third person on whether or not the third-person possessive pronoun is used:
 * He ottivat (omat) takkinsa. = "They took their (own) coats." (The possessor cannot be mentioned, even for emphasis, when it the same as the subject.)
 * He ottivat heidän takkinsa. = "They took their (others') coats." (When a third person pronoun is mentioned as the possessor, it must refer to someone other than the subject of the sentence.)
 * He kertoivat tekevänsä (itse). = "They told they would come (themselves)." (The doer cannot be mentioned, even for emphasis, when it is the same as previously.)
 * He kertoivat heidän tulevan. = "They told they (others) would come." (When a third person pronoun is mentioned as the subject of the second sentence, it must refer to someone other than the subject of the first sentence.)

Hungarian
Hungarian is another Uralic language. Distantly related to Finnish, Hungarian follows similar rule as given above for Finnish, except that it does not use genitive case for emphasis. To say "Maria's house", one would say Mária háza: literally 'Maria her house', where háza means 'her/his/its house' (see His genitive).

 * See also Possessive suffixes in the article Hungarian grammar (noun phrases).

Arabic
Arabic, a Semitic language, uses personal suffixes, also classified as enclitic pronouns, for the genitive and accusative cases of the personal pronouns. The genitive and accusative forms are identical, except for the 1st person singular, which is -ī in genitive and -nī in accusative case. They can be used with nouns, expressing possession, with prepositions, which require the genitive case, or with verbs, expressing the object. Examples for personal suffixes expressing possession, using the word بيت bayt(u) (house) as a base:

Hebrew
In Hebrew, a Northwest Semitic language, possessive suffixes are optional. They are more common in formal, archaic, or poetic language and for certain nouns than on others. For instance, my home can be written בֵּיתִי (beiti). However, the following are some different ways to express possession, using the word בַּיִת (bayit, house) as a base:

 * my house: בֵּיתִי beiti (house-my), הַבַּיִת שֶׁלִּי ha-bayit sheli (the-house of-me)
 * your (masc., sing.) house: בֵּיתְךָ beitkha (house-your), הַבַּיִת שֶׁלְּךָ ha-bayit shelkha (the-house of-you)
 * Adam's house: בֵּית אָדָם beit Adam (house-of Adam), בֵּיתוֹ שֶׁל אָדָם beito shel Adam (house-his of Adam), הַבַּיִת שֶׁל אָדָם ha-bayit shel Adam (the-house of Adam)

Assyrian
In Assyrian Neo-Aramaic, a Modern Aramaic language, possessive pronouns are suffixes that are attached to the end of nouns to express possession similar to the English pronouns my, your, his, her, etc., which reflects the gender and the number of the person or persons.

Although possessive suffixes are more convenient and common, they can be optional for some people and seldom used, especially among those with the Tyari and Barwari dialects. The following are the alternative ways to express possession, using the word "bĕtā" (house) as a base:

 * my house: bĕtā it dēyi ("house of mine")
 * your (masc., sing.) house: bĕtā it dēyūkh ("house of yours")
 * your (fem., sing.) house: bĕtā it dēyakh
 * your (plural) house: bĕtā it dēyōkhūn ("house of yours")
 * 3rd person (masc., sing.): bĕtā it dēyū ("house of his")
 * 3rd person (fem., sing.): bĕtā it dēyō ("house of hers")
 * 3rd person (plural): bĕtā it dēyĕh ("house of theirs")

Armenian
In Armenian, the following suffixes are used (Eastern standard):

Persian
Persian, an Indo-European language, has possessive suffixes:

e.g. pedar-am my father; barâdar-aš his/her brother

Central Morocco Tamazight
Central Morocco Tamazight's use of possessive suffixes mirrors that of many other Afro-Asiatic languages.

 * 1) -inw is used when the noun ends in a consonant

Independent possessives are formed by attaching the possessive suffixes to (if the object possessed is masculine) or ' (for feminine), e.g.  ('mine').

Turkish
Possessive forms of the noun ev ("house"): The plural of ev is evler, and the form evleri is ambiguous; it can be ev + -leri, with the 3rd-person plural possessive suffix, or evler + -i, with the 3rd-person singular possessive suffix. Additionally, when suffixed to a plural form, the plural suffix -leri is replaced by -i, so "their houses" is not *evlerleri but just also evleri, making this form triply ambiguous.

The Turkish possessive suffixes obey vowel harmony (ok – "arrow"; okum – "my arrow"; okları – "their arrow" or "his/her/their arrows"). If the word to which they are attached ends on a vowel, an initial vowel of the possessive suffix is elided (baba – "father"; babam – "my father").

Malay
In Malay, an Austronesian language, the following suffixes can be added to nouns to indicate possession.

Not all pronouns are added in this way; most are written as separate words. For example, your country can also be expressed as negara anda or negara engkau, and our country as negara kita (if the reader is included) or negara kami (if the reader is excluded).

Classical Nahuatl
Classical Nahuatl, an Uto-Aztecan language, uses possessive prefixes.

title: Possessive affix


text:
Rohrau

Rohrau may refer to:

 * Rohrau, Austria, a town in Lower Austria
 * Rohrau (Gärtringen), a village in the municipality of Gärtringen, Baden-Württemberg

title: Rohrau


text:
Category:Risk

 * For information about the game called Risk see Category:Risk (game)

title: Category:Risk


text:
Theodorus of Cyrene

Theodorus of Cyrene (Θεόδωρος ὁ Κυρηναῖος) was an ancient Greek mathematician who lived during the 5th century BC. The only first-hand accounts of him that survive are in three of Plato's dialogues: the Theaetetus, the Sophist, and the Statesman. In the former dialogue, he posits a mathematical construction now known as the Spiral of Theodorus.

Life
Little is known as Theodorus' biography beyond what can be inferred from Plato's dialogues. He was born in the northern African colony of Cyrene, and apparently taught both there and in Athens. He complains of old age in the Theaetetus, the dramatic date of 399 BC of which suggests his period of flourishing to have occurred in the mid-5th century. The text also associates him with the sophist Protagoras, with whom he claims to have studied before turning to geometry. A dubious tradition repeated among ancient biographers like Diogenes Laërtius held that Plato later studied with him in Cyrene, Libya. This eminent mathematician Theodorus was, along with Alcibiades and many other of Socrates' companions (many of whom would be associated with the Thirty Tyrants), accused of distributing the mysteries at a symposium, according to Plutarch, who himself was priest of the temple at Delphi.

Work in mathematics
Theodorus' work is known through a sole theorem, which is delivered in the literary context of the Theaetetus and has been argued alternately to be historically accurate or fictional. In the text, his student Theaetetus attributes to him the theorem that the square roots of the non-square numbers up to 17 are irrational: "Theodorus here was drawing some figures for us in illustration of roots, showing that squares containing three square feet and five square feet are not commensurable in length with the unit of the foot, and so, selecting each one in its turn up to the square containing seventeen square feet and at that he stopped."

The square containing two square units is not mentioned, perhaps because the incommensurability of its side with the unit was already known.) Theodorus's method of proof is not known. It is not even known whether, in the quoted passage, "up to" (μέχρι) means that seventeen is included. If seventeen is excluded, then Theodorus's proof may have relied merely on considering whether numbers are even or odd. Indeed, Hardy and Wright and Knorr suggest proofs that rely ultimately on the following theorem:  If $$x^2=ny^2$$ is soluble in integers, and $$n$$ is odd, then $$n$$ must be congruent to 1 modulo 8 (since $$x$$ and $$y$$ can be assumed odd, so their squares are congruent to 1 modulo 8.

That one cannot prove the irrationality the square root of 17 by considerations restricted to the arithmetic of the even and the odd has been shown in one system of the arithmetic of the even and the odd in and, but it is an open problem in a stronger natural axiom system for the arithmetic of the even and the odd

A possibility suggested earlier by Zeuthen is that Theodorus applied the so-called Euclidean algorithm, formulated in Proposition X.2 of the Elements as a test for incommensurability. In modern terms, the theorem is that a real number with an infinite continued fraction expansion is irrational. Irrational square roots have periodic expansions. The period of the square root of 19 has length 6, which is greater than the period of the square root of any smaller number. The period of √17 has length one (so does √18; but the irrationality of √18 follows from that of √2).

The so-called Spiral of Theodorus is composed of contiguous right triangles with hypotenuse lengths equal √2, √3, √4, …, √17; additional triangles cause the diagram to overlap. Philip J. Davis interpolated the vertices of the spiral to get a continuous curve. He discusses the history of attempts to determine Theodorus' method in his book Spirals: From Theodorus to Chaos, and makes brief references to the matter in his fictional Thomas Gray series.

That Theaetetus established a more general theory of irrationals, whereby square roots of non-square numbers are irrational, is suggested in the eponymous Platonic dialogue as well as commentary on, and scholia to, the Elements.

title: Theodorus of Cyrene


text:
User:Stardestroyer

_       .                          .            (                 (_)        .       .                                     .  .        ____.--^.   .      /:  /    |                               +           .         .         /:  `--=--'   .                                                .        /: __[\==`-.___          *           .       /__|\ _    --..__            .             .       \   \|::::|-.....___|~--.                                 .        \ _\_ -:|:::______//---...___     .   [\  \  __  --     \       ~  \_       ===--==-...____        [============================================================-        /         __/__   --  /__    --       /____.... '~      .  *    /  /   ==           ____....=---= ~ .      /____....--=- ''':~                      .                .      .       ~--~         Kuat Drive Yards' Imperial-class Star Destroyer                     .. .                         .                      .             +        .     +              .                                       <=>

From Russia with Pride!!

title: User:Stardestroyer


text:
USS Carter Hall

USS Carter Hall may refer to the following ships of the United States Navy:

 * USS Carter Hall (LSD-3) was an Ashland-class dock landing ship, launched in 1943 and struck in 1969
 * USS Carter Hall (LSD-50) is a Harpers Ferry-class dock landing ship, launched in 1993 and currently in active service

title: USS Carter Hall


text:
User talk:Aleeks

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --Flockmeal 00:28, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

title: User talk:Aleeks


text:
User talk:Denaluna

Welcome!

Hello,, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Where to ask a question, ask me on my talk page, or place  on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome! --Flockmeal 00:29, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * The five pillars of Wikipedia
 * How to edit a page
 * Help pages
 * Tutorial
 * How to write a great article
 * Manual of Style

Non Free Files in your User Space
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title: User talk:Denaluna


text:
Japan–Korea Treaty of 1910

The Japan–Korea Treaty of 1910, also known as the Japan–Korea Annexation Treaty, was made by representatives of the Empire of Japan and the Korean Empire on 22 August 1910. In this treaty, Japan formally annexed Korea following the Japan–Korea Treaty of 1905 (by which Korea became a protectorate of Japan) and the Japan–Korea Treaty of 1907 (by which Korea was deprived of the administration of internal affairs).

Japanese commentators predicted that Koreans would easily assimilate into the Japanese Empire.

In 1965, the Treaty of Basic Relations between South Korea and Japan confirmed this treaty is "already null and void".

History
The treaty was proclaimed to the public (and became effective) on 29 August 1910, officially starting the period of Japanese rule in Korea. The treaty had eight articles, the first being: "His Majesty the Emperor of Korea makes the complete and permanent cession to His Majesty the Emperor of Japan of all rights of sovereignty over the whole of Korea".

Gojong of the Korean Empire later called the treaty a neugyak (늑약 勒約). The alternative term used in lieu of joyak (조약 條約) implies the Koreans were coerced into accepting the treaty by the Japanese. Gyeongsul Gukchi (경술국치 庚戌國恥, National humiliation of the year of Gyeongsul)" and Gukchi-il (국치일 國恥日, National humiliation day)" are alternative terms for the year and date the treaty was signed, respectively.

The United Kingdom had already acquiesced to the annexation of Korea by Japan, via the British connection to Imperial Japan via the Anglo-Japanese Alliance of 1902 and 1905; and the United States had also sanctioned the annexation, as per the Taft-Katsura Agreement.

Japanese annexation of Korea
The Empire of Japan had already confirmed the policy of Annexation at the Cabinet Meeting on 6 July 1909. However, it was left only to minimize side effects and obtain an international justification. The Japanese imperial government was preparing a scenario for a "merger petition" to Shigemaru Sugiyama, an advisor of the Iljinhoe. Prior to this, Song Byeong-jun went to the Empire of Japan in February 1909 and held a bargaining for the country. Many times, Itō Hirobumi urged a "merger", but when work was delayed due to the Japanese imperial armed forces plan, he went directly to the Empire of Japan and negotiated a "merger" against the Japanese imperial Prime Minister Katsura Tarō and other members of the Japanese imperial Choya.

If Song Byeong-jun's cabinet is established, not only is there a risk of retaliation, but also Ye Wanyong, fearing that the main role of the annexation will be taken away, said, "Even if the current cabinet collapses, a more pro-Japanese cabinet cannot come out." and voluntarily informed the Ministry of Knowledge Economy that it was possible.

In directing such a scenario, the Empire of Japan gradually decided that the period of “Annexation” was ripening, and promoted Shigemaru to make a “joining petition” using Lee Yong-gu and Song Byeong-jun.

Legality
The legality of the treaty was later disputed by the exiled Provisional Government of the Republic of Korea, as well as the South Korean government. While the treaty was affixed with the national seal of the Korean Empire, Emperor Sunjong of Korea refused to sign the treaty as required under Korean law. The treaty was instead signed by Prime Minister Ye Wanyong of the Korean Empire, and Resident General Count Terauchi Masatake of the Empire of Japan.

This issue caused considerable difficulty in negotiating the establishment of basic diplomatic relations between the countries. Korea insisted on including a chapter stipulating, "The treaty was null and void", although Japanese government did not confirm the illegality. Japanese government insisted the treaty was null and void in 1965. A compromise was reached in language of Article II of the 1965 Treaty on Basic Relations:

"It is confirmed that all treaties or agreements concluded between the Empire of Japan and the Empire of Korea on or before August 22, 1910, are already null and void."

Conference to discuss legality of the treaty
In January, April, and November 2001, an academic conference on the legality of Japan's annexation of Korea from 1910 to 1945 (titled A reconsideration of Japanese Annexation of Korea from the Historical and International Law Perspectives) was held at Harvard University with the support of the Korea Foundation. Scholars of history and international law participated from South Korea, North Korea, Japan, the United States, the United Kingdom, Germany, and Canada.

Anthony Carty, a professor at the University of Derby, stated, "During the height of the imperialism, it is difficult to find an international law sufficient to determine the legality/illegality of a particular treaty." According to the Asian Yearbook of International Law, in his book on international law, "Carty prefers seeing the relationship between Japan and Korea at the time with reference to the reality of the then international community dominated by Western powers, rather than viewing it in terms of treaty law as argued by Korean scholars".

Alexis Dudden, a professor at the University of Connecticut, discussed Nitobe Inazō's science of colonial policy. She is the author of Japan's Colonization of Korea: Discourse and Power in which she discusses how Japanese policymakers carefully studied and then invoked international law to annex Korea legally.

According to Kan Kimura, a major result of this conference is that the Korean claim that the annexation was illegal was rejected by the participating Western scholars, as well as others specializing in international law.

Activism
On 28 August 2007, regarding the General Power of Attorney by Sunjong, Korean newspaper Dong-a Ilbo reported that Korean monarchs did not sign in the official documents with their real names, traditionally, but the Korean Emperor was forced by Japan to follow a new custom to sign with his real name, which originated from the Western Hemisphere. It mentioned Sunjong's signature may be compulsory.

On 23 June 2010, 75 South Korean congressmen suggested the legal nullification of the Japan–Korea Annexation Treaty to the Prime Minister Naoto Kan.

On 6 July 2010, Korean and Japanese progressive Christian groups gathered in Tokyo's Korean YMCA chapter and jointly declared that the Japan–Korea Annexation Treaty was unjustified.

On 28 July 2010, around 1000 intellectuals in Korea and Japan issued a joint statement that the Japan–Korea Annexation Treaty was never valid in the first place.

title: Japan–Korea Treaty of 1910


text:
Skykomish River

The Skykomish River is a 29 mi long river in the U.S. state of Washington which drains the west side of the Cascade Mountains in the southeast section of Snohomish County and the northeast corner of King County. The river starts with the confluence of the North Fork Skykomish River and South Fork Skykomish River approximately one mile west of Index, then flowing northwesterly towards Puget Sound. It is joined by the Sultan River and the Wallace River at Sultan. It then meets the Snoqualmie River to form the Snohomish River at Monroe. The Snohomish River continues along the river valley eventually dumping into Port Gardner Bay on Possession Sound (part of Puget Sound).

The name "Skykomish" comes from the Lushootseed name of the Skykomish people,, meaning "upriver people." It is sometimes referred to by the nickname "Sky River" or "The Sky".

Course
The Skykomish River's main stem is 29 mi long, from the confluence of its North and South fork, until it and the Snoqualmie forms the Snohomish River. Adding the longest headwater tributaries, South Fork Skykomish and Tye River, the length is 62.4 mi. The Skykomish's drainage basin is 834 sqmi in area. U.S. Highway 2 and the BNSF Railway are routed to follow the Skykomish River, South Fork Skykomish, and Tye River to Stevens Pass and the Cascade Tunnel.

North Fork
The headwaters of the North Fork Skykomish River are located in the Henry M. Jackson Wilderness near Dishpan Gap along the Pacific Crest Trail. It flows as a small stream off the north slope of Skykomish Peak. The Wild Sky Wilderness protects tributaries and forests adjacent to the North Fork Skykomish, although not the river itself. The river flows generally in a southwestern direction from its source to its mouth. Just before picking up Goblin Creek, the river flows through a short but impressive canyon and within that canyon the river drops over Deer Falls. A short ways down from that, the river flows through an even shorter but very twisted and unusually shaped canyon at Bear Creek Falls.
 * Pass Creek: Leads to Cady Pass.
 * Quartz Creek: Flows from Monte Cristo Peak, leads to Curry Gap.
 * Goblin Creek: Flows from Monte Cristo Peak.
 * West Cady Creek
 * Troublesome Creek: Flows from Monte Cristo Peak, through Blanca Lake, to join the North Fork just below Bear Creek Falls.
 * Silver Creek: Rises near Silvertip Mountain and Poodle Dog Pass, flows by Mineral City, joins North Fork just above Galena (early route to Monte Cristo mining district; both Mineral City and Galena former mining towns).
 * Salmon Creek: Joins North Fork just below Galena.
 * Trout Creek: Upstream of the town of Index, just downstream of the Index-Galena Road washout. Trout Creek road is currently blocked (as of 2015).

South Fork
The South Fork Skykomish River begins at the confluence of the Tye River and the Foss River, to the east of Skykomish. From the confluence the South Fork flows northwest. Near the eastern boundary of the city of Skykomish, the Beckler River joins it. To the west of the city of Skykomish, the Miller River joins it. Shortly before converging with the North Fork the river drops over Eagle Falls, followed by Canyon Falls and then, finally, Sunset Falls before its confluence with the North Fork.
 * Beckler River: Joins just below the river's source.
 * Rapid River
 * Miller River: Joins at Miller River.
 * Money Creek: Joins the South Fork near Grotto.
 * Lowe Creek: Joins the South Fork between Baring and Grotto.
 * Pinecone Creek: Joins the South Fork between Baring and Grotto.
 * Index Creek: Joins the South Fork near Baring.
 * Barclay Creek

Discharge
According to the U.S. Geological Survey, the South Fork is about twice the size of the North Fork in terms of both discharge and watershed area above their confluence at Index, making it the true hydrologic source of the Skykomish River. The South Fork average flow of 2431 cuft/s is sourced from a drainage area of 355 mi2, compared to the North Fork which has an average flow of 1216 cuft/s from a drainage area of 146 mi2. In turn the source of the South Fork – in terms of streamflow – is the Rapid River, a tributary of the Beckler River, which in turn is a tributary of the South Fork Skykomish.

Glacial loss in the higher portion of the watershed in the Cascades has led to declining streamflow, especially during the late summer. In 2022, researchers determined that Hinman Glacier, which as recently as 1971 was the largest glacier in the river's watershed, had completely retreated as a result of climate change. As a whole, the area of the Skykomish watershed that was covered by glacial ice decreased from 3.8 km2 in 1958 to 1.7 km2 in 2022 - a 55% loss. Consequently, days with streamflow below the threshold necessary to maintain short-term survival of fish in the river has increased. Annual precipitation values had not been observed as declining.

History
In the 1890s the Great Northern Railway was built along the Skykomish, South Fork Skykomish, and Tye Rivers, crossing the crest of the Cascades at Stevens Pass. Today the track is owned by BNSF Railway, known as the Burlington Northern Railroad from 1970 to 1995. Stevens Pass is named after the Great Northern surveyor John Frank Stevens. Two railroad tunnels, both called Cascade Tunnel, were built at Stevens Pass. The first one was built slightly north of the pass. It was replaced in 1929 with the New Cascade Tunnel, which at 7.8 mi long was for nearly 60 years the longest railroad tunnel in North America and is still the longest in the United States. The New Cascade Tunnel is a few miles south of Stevens Pass. Its western entrance is near the confluence of Tunnel Creek and the Tye River. A small amount of the water flows out of both tunnels into the Tye River. An interpretive center for the Iron Goat Trail, located at Scenic on the upper Tye River, describes the history of the area including the old railroad and new trail. The interpretive center was built near the site of one of the greatest railroad tragedies in American history, the Wellington Disaster.

One of the Native American trails crossing the Cascades followed the Skykomish and North Fork Skykomish to Cady Pass.

Recreation
The Skykomish River is used for rafting and kayaking, especially around the Index, WA area during the summer months. The Skykomish River is mostly ranked between Class III and Class III+ rapids, depending on the circumstances and season, but includes Boulder Drop, a class IV+ rapids. Skykomish and its tributaries also popular place for recreational fishing. River is a home for chinook, coho and pink salmon, steelhead and bull trout.

Waterfalls
North Fork

 * Deer Falls
 * Bear Creek Falls

South Fork

 * Eagle Falls
 * Canyon Falls
 * Sunset Falls

title: Skykomish River