text:
Talk:List of mobile network operators

"World's Largest" Table: Number Of Subscribers
I would just like to point out that the current table adopted from the previous format is a tad misleading or even inaccurate. Vodafone's 120.53 million subscribers actually does include that in companies in which the company holds a minority stake. It is the number of proportionate subscribers, a measure more widely used in the industry to measure true size. This is the reason why I drew up the table with a column each for total and proportionate subscribers. In fact, the entire table's entries needs to be verified to find out if the figure is for total subscribers or proportionate ones. What do the rest of you think? --Huaiwei 17:37, 6 August 2005 (UTC)
 * Go for it. (By the way, I was converting to tables last week but went away and didn't have time to finish up, which I'll now do later) --Joolz 18:02, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
 * For somebody who has not helped create the table with total and proportional users, I don't know what you mean. Could somebody please add a single sentence explaining what the different columns are supposed to mean and how they differ? Thanks ...
 * Think the global operator ranking needs to be updated.

Yup i agree that this should be the method - but for telenor and telesonara and some of the others - it seems like the number of minority owned customers were included wholesale into the number of proportionate customers. And so telenor's and telesonara's rankings should be far below their current rankings - out of the top 10 league i believe.

Surely Proportionate Subscribers Should Be The Sort Order?
That seems more meaningful than total subscribers. --ciphergoth 16:29, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
 * What does "proportionate subscribers" mean? Proportional to what? Brian Shaposky (talk) 17:42, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Consistency Problems: Column "Technology"
I think the Technology columns really need a fix for consistency. For example: In the US networks, GPRS is counted as "Technology" but in the Irish column, it is not (even though all 3 GSM networks have it). I also have failed to notice any other list which counts GPRS as "Technology" but I may have missed them. So should it be or shouldn't it be? -- RHe odt  18:29, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Also, this column mixes up 2 categories: I suggest removing the TDMA vs. CDMA info from this column, and just discuss standards. --68.6.44.232 06:09, 22 January 2007 (UTC)
 * GSM is a standard, a counterpart would be IS-95 (cdmaOne)
 * CDMA is a MA principle, a counterpart would be TDMA

MVNO's
Do MVNO's count as a Network Operator? Tracfone has been listed on the United States potion of the list for a long time and is currently listed as the 6th largest Operator, though it doesn't operate a network it just uses another companies network. If MVNO's are used in the ranking, then Virgin Mobile should also be placed in there. Does that mean Boost Mobile, which is owned by Sprint Nextel get to be in the ranking too with its 1.7 million subscribers? Or are those 1.7 million subscribers already counted under the Sprint Nextel subscribers?

Should there just be a separate column that lists the MVNO's and what network operator they use with their subscriber numbers listed? Or should MVNO's be places in the ranking?

This might be applicable then to the discussion below about moving the page to List of mobile phone companies.

New Table: Countries By Penetration Rate
Country according to penetration rate. As is, the penetration rate is listed for each country's entry if listed at all. The tables could be improved by listing this info in a separate table. --bjelleklang 10:18, 7 October 2005 (UTC)

Great Article
One of the best on wikipedia IMO. thx whoever wrote it... I wonder any reason the list cuts off w/o smaller operators? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.140.5.249 (talk) 03:44, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

Who Owns Whom?
The lists of mobile network operators is just marvelous. thanks for all who have contributed.

What I now look for is a list that point out which operator is owned by whom and what stakes they have. does such a relationship/network description already exist? --The preceding unsigned comment was added by 15.203.137.74 (talk) 11:38, 30 April 2007 (UTC).
 * A related issue: Are Verizon Wireless subscribers listed twice? Vodafone lists "USA" in the "Main Markets" column, but I don't think they operate directly in the US.  Any US "subscribers" they have would be thru their ownership stake in VZW. Jason McHuff (talk) 14:30, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

LowCall and Simyo Netherlands
Under the list of Netherlands-based networks, LowCall is mentioned as a network owned by Telfort, but actually it is not. LowCall is owned by debitel, and is using the Telfort GSM network. Maybe someone can take a look at this? Also both LowCall and Simyo aren't physical networks, but are virtual networks. Simyo is using KPN's network.

Proportionate?
I'm a bit unsure about how to interpret the different numbers.. I just put in updated figures for Telenor (90.0 and 142.7M), but from their spreadsheet it looks like the 90M are "wholly owned" subscribers, and the remaining 52.7M are given as "Associated companies: No. of mobile subscriptions (100%)". So is 142.7M then the real "proportionate" figure, and the "total" unknown, or is it correct as it stands? - BsL (talk) 09:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Standard name
Right now, when this article refers to the United States of America, sometimes "USA" is used, and other times "United States" is used. I propose that these be standardized for easy searching across the entire article. Ahlfi006 (talk) 17:21, 30 July 2009 (UTC)

Incomplete Data
"Singapore Telecommunications Limited (SGX: T48, ASX: SGT), commonly abbreviated as SingTel, is a telecommunications company, with a combined mobile subscriber base of 249.4 million customers from its own operations and regional associates at the end of March 2009" and yet is astoundingly absent from this list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.88.165 (talk) 15:25, 17 February 2010 (UTC)

Prefer the older way of sort order based on proportionate data
I'd think using the old template with proportionate subscribers represent a better picture.Just added SingTel and surprisingly it's the third largest mobile network, excluding the indirect stakes gained in Zain via Bharti.

srikrishnak (talk)07:49, 27 April 2010 (UTC)

Table rendering issues
The table looks awful and needs serious cleanup, its barely readable on my laptop. -- Eraserhead1 <talk> 22:09, 10 September 2010 (UTC)

Vodafone vs China Mobile
China Mobile is first on the list, however if you press 'show' in the main market column for Vodafone (2nd) China mobile is there too. Does this mean that Vodafone has a minority stake in China mobile or vice versa? Dylan (talk) 16:05, 30 September 2010 (UTC)

Prefer proportional data. Also wonder why SingTel removed again from the list
Added SingTel again to the list (4th time if i remember correctly. Also propose to remove 'technologies filed' and add 'revenue' to the table. srikrishnak (talk)02:02, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

SingTel is still missing. According to their media release, they have 157 million proportionate subscribers as of 31 March 2012 (http://info.singtel.com/node/11960). This would put them at number 13 on the list, between TeliaSonera and Telenor.

 * I second adding a Revenue column Brian Shaposky (talk) 17:44, 20 January 2022 (UTC)

Misleading and incorrect subscriber numbers
The information in the 'Total subscribers' column needs to be more clearly defined as the current position is misleading and inaccurate, with different methods of measurement used for different companies. In my view there should be two columns for number of subscribers: (1) the number of subscribers in wholly or majority owned networks; and (2) the number of proportionate customers (i.e. also including minority-owned networks, but with subscriber numbers in both majority and minority owned networks adjusted for ownership percentage).

To take one example of how the present infomration is misleading, the total subscriber numbers quoted for SingTel at present is 382,814,000. However this number refers to the total number of subscribers in all majority and minority owned networks, not adjusted for shareholding i.e. even if the shareholding is 1% the number of subscribers is still counted in total (the comparable figure for Vodafone would be well over 500 million, and third-party sources never describe SingTel as being the second-largest mobile phone company measured by subscribers).

This is clearly meaningless, and makes comparison with other companies in the list where the 'Total number' refers to something very much more meaningful impossible. 'Total subscribers' should be defined both clearly and precisely, and not so widely as to be completely meaningless. The present approach satifies neither requirement.Rangoon11 (talk) 11:45, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

VIVO IS PART OF TELEFONICA Brazil´s "Vivo" company is now owned by Telefonica, adding more than 50 million suscribers to the Telefonica group.--81.35.237.47 (talk) 05:05, 7 May 2011 (UTC)Apart from that Telefónica is the more profitable Mobile company in the World.--81.35.237.47 (talk) 05:10, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Sorting Bug
Not sure if this is an issue with the text used in the columns but it doesn't seems to sort right when clicking on the various columns. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 192.131.177.17 (talk) 21:22, 7 December 2011 (UTC)

Ranking does not correspond to "Total subscribers", and table is not sortable by total subscribers
For example: T-Mobile is ranked 17 in this list "measured by number of subscribers" (first line of article) with 328 million subscribers, while TeliaSonera is ranked 12 with 160 million subscribers in this list "measured by number of subscribers". The first step to a real factual base would be to move out the references from the numbers columns into a column by itself, so that the table could become really sortable by subscriber number. The column "rank" could then be dropped. --L.Willms (talk) 20:38, 1 May 2012 (UTC)

Proportional vs. Total
I have a problem editing the article for the telcos do not provide separate data for "total" and "proportional" subscribers. For example, China Mobile only states that it has 667 million subscribers, but it does not state if their subscribers in Hong Kong and Pakistan is included in this number.

Also, for T-Mobile, their Q1 2012 data only showed that they only have 129 million subcribers, dropping them to #17 in the list.

I have an issue for NTT Docomo, too. It is estimated that they have "60 million subscribers" in Japan, but if we'll include their stake in PLDT and Tata Docomo, the numbers would sure to inflate, placing them somewhere in the Top 30.

I don't really know, but maybe we can drop having 2 columns and instead just post here what number the telcos say? Most telcos report only the "proportional" number, I believe.

I just ask for clarification, as a reference to future wikipedia contributors who will edit this article.

— Preceding unsigned comment added by Ppby (talk • contribs) 06:36, 1 June 2012 (UTC)
 * I was also finding it very difficult in getting the proportionate subscribers. I believe the strategy followed by most of the telcos is that the total subscribers of a majority ownership is taken as their own. For eg: Vodafone's total subscribers from their site includes numbers from Vodafone India in full, in which they have a majority stake. But does not include those from Airtel India, in which they have a minority stake. Machinist 88 (talk) 18:30, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

What about Leap Wireless?
…who own and operate Cricket Wireless? --Jerome Potts (talk) 17:18, 29 November 2012 (UTC)

New listing
Kindly update the list as per latest ranking brought out by a sister associate of GSM Association, one of the most reputed data analyzing organization, or by other reliable sources, as there are lot of variations in these rankings. for example Reliance Mobile is ranked 16 on Wiki list while, it is ranked 8th by GSM Association. --Wiki.Gunjan (talk) 19:29, 8 October 2013 (UTC)

Airtel is missing from the rankings.
Airtel is listed under Singtel's entry. But if you see, Singtel just owns 35% of Airtel and still is a minority shareholder. The bulk of the shares lie with the public and the Mittal family which runs the company. Thus I think it's only fair to make Airtel a new entry, like it was a few months ago. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 202.91.78.234 (talk) 00:53, 23 December 2013 (UTC)

External links modified
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External links modified
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Wikidata: Number of Subscribers property
Thanks for this great collection! I added the facts to wikidata (see e.g. https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Q741618) using the newly created number of subscribers property

In case you're interested, you may want to use could add the number of subscribers (https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Property:P3744) to further telecommunication companies. Givegivetake (talk) 20:41, 7 March 2017 (UTC)

Vodafone and MTS
Vodafone Ukraine and MTS Ukraine is the same operator (MTS Ukraine was rebranded to Vodafone in 2015). Here it is listed twice: for Vodafone and for MTS. In operator's annual reports MTS includes 20.9 mln Ukrainian customers, but Vodafone does not list Ukraine as opration country.-- Anatoliy  ( Talk ) 19:52, 19 August 2017 (UTC)

Regarding Vodafone India's merger with Idea
Vodafone Idea Limited is not a company where Vodafone group has a majority stake. As per the merger conditions, Vodafone has to equalize it’s shareholding with Aditya Birla group in 5 years, which means a further reduction in the share percentage that Vodafone group has in the merged entity. So, I believe Vodafone Idea should not be mentioned in the list along with all the other subsidiaries of Vodafone group. As per March 2018 TRAI’s Telecom Subscription Data (check page 14), Vodafone India had approximately 222.7 million users. That number should be subtracted from the listed 535.8 million subscribers of Vodafone group because same number of users are being counted twice i.e. in the listing of both Vodafone group and Vodafone India limited. Thanks & Regards - Jayadevp  13  11:59, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
 * Since I didn't get any negative response towards what I told, I have gone ahead and done the changes. Please discuss here before reverting.
 * Thanks & Regards. - Jayadevp  13  13:14, 5 September 2018 (UTC)

Removing of Tim from the table without any referenced motivation
Dear users, Good morrow everyone,

recently the unregistered user has deleted Tim from the table together with its datas and information provided with references/sources. If that user, "s/he" retains that Tim was wrongly reported in that list, s/he do - at least - should demonstrate why it's incorrect with equally valid references (actually datas seem demonstrate it was legitimately in tha table; moreover in analogue wiki pages in other languages it is present), otherwise s/he was committing vandalism and/or revisions based only on her/his own opinion. --BOSS.mattia (talk) 11:01, 28 July 2019 (UTC)

removed mci
mobile company of iran was removed i guess it has 80 million subs.5.75.38.85 (talk) 18:08, 14 April 2020 (UTC)

Lost phone
I lost my free government snap benefit cell phone that I purchased. Wh can I do? 2600:1702:3CC0:4880:A0AC:95F4:727E:367F (talk) 10:11, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:List of mobile network operators


text:
Talk:BESK

BESM vs BESK
Can someone please provide evidence that BESM was indeed the same as BESK, as well as the evidence of BESK priority over BESM, as claimed in the article. --Gene s 05:38, 28 Dec 2004 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:BESK


text:
Talk:Jamaican English

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 9 January 2020 and 22 April 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): André Lindsay.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 23:15, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 11 September 2018 and 31 December 2018. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): MirandaMitchell.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 01:01, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Comments
Much of the current content is my work, done quite some time ago, and I haven't been back until now--sorry. I note the problems and will try to work on them. I haven't figured out how to do the IPA symbols yet, and in fact I run into a problem when I try to add references--the part of the article below the reference disappears.

I didn't think of the "subject changes" in the Creole continuum as a problem--I meant to use different sentences as examples--but I see how they could be made clearer. "Me is" and "Me's" is just the perennial problem of how to spell Patois to reflect the pronunciation without confusing the reader. (IPA won't help there either, since only linguist can read it.)

I agree with your comments on the different meaning of higgler, but That's too much detail to go into the article. You could make the same argument for "duppy"--it doesn't have the exact connotations that English "ghost" has. If you can think of other Jamaican-only words to feature there (that are used in Creole as well as Jamaican Standard English), please add them as examples.

(I wasn't born in Jamaica but lived there and have a study subject at home.)

Arankine 19:53, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Errors/Clarification (note: I'm Jamaican born and was raised there till I was 12 but I'm NOT a linguist so I'll leave my suggestions here rather than correcting the main article.)

"Higgler for informal vendor" is a poor translation for a concept which doesn't translate well into standard English. (What is an 'informal' vendor anyway?) While it has a broad definition, its two main uses, for me anyway, are as follows:

 * A vendor who haggles or negotiates prices such as stall vendors (farmer's market, flea market, etc)
 * It also refers specifically to those who try to turn a quick buck by visiting abroad, purchasing cheap or unbranded merchandise, and reselling it in Jamaica.

The example of the creole continuum is plain wrong. There are subject changes between levels (Me = I, 'Im = He). Secondly, the examples for low mesilect and basilect are identical in prestige and are actual grammatical differences (ignoring subject changes it translates to: "He works over there" vs "He is working over there"). Furthermore, "Me is" sounds flat out wrong. The closest that sounds like is the lowest form of Patois/Patwa where it's slurred together (sounds like me pluralized but shorter): M'is ova'de - I'm over there.

An example of the continuum for me is:

 * M'is ova' de-so
 * Mi's ova' de
 * Mi ova de (most common)
 * Mi ova dere
 * I'm/I'll be over there (Standard English)

This article needs to explain the Jamaican article "fi", which does not exist in Standard English.
 * This is explained in Jamaican Creole; which starts

"not to be confused with Jamaican English", from the examples given in this article, (""Me a wok ova de-so") - this is 'confused' with Jamaican English.

More IPA is required
The problem is that I can't see the differences in sound unless I see the IPA symbols. This would benefit the article. -Iopq 05:22, 5 October 2006 (UTC)

 * I was going to say the same thing - I'll see if there's any really obvious ones to put IPA to. --   the     GREAT     Gavini   17:55, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Iopq, mi understand yuh concern. Adding IPA symbols to di article inna Wikipedia would be a real boon. But yuh know, sometimes yuh have to tek di initiative and try fi find di sources dem yourself. There’s plenty of scientific articles out deh pon di topic, and yuh can try looking up dem resources inna di Wikipedia Library. It may take a likkle effort, but it’s a worthwhile endeavor fi enrich di article and mek it more informative and accessible fi everybody. So, give it a shot and see how yuh can contribute to di article’s improvement. Bless up! – Mariâ Magdalina (talk) 23:13, 11 October 2023 (UTC)

Bacon
The article claims that: "Bacon" and "beer can" are homophones in Jamaican English. While the vowel correspondence is there, it earlier claims that Jamaican English is semi-rhotic and that r is pronounced at the end of stressed syllables. It seems this would imply that the r would be pronounced in "beer can" but silent in "bacon", making them not homophonous. Perhaps someone with more knowledge could clear this up. Furby100 01:51, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
 * Re: Beer CanIm a "native" Jamaican and we dont use the term "beer can" and "bacon" is refered to as bacon. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Diapers v. nappies
There appears to be an internal contradiction within the "Vocabulary" section, with the first sentence suggesting that "diapers" is in use, while the second suggests that "nappies" is the preferred term. This could probably benefit from the attention of a native speaker or current resident. Pastamasta 10:36, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

 * I think it's clear that the "diapers" is used more by younger Jamaicans, and "nappies" is used more by older Jamaicans, as a rough generalization. - BillCJ 03:37, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree with Pastamasta, when I read it I thought it was contradictory. The Old Trout PS I looked at the page to find out what 'bakkra' meant - I'm assuming it's Jamaican (19th century, slave) slang from the context I've read it in, but would love someone to enlighten me. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.143.206.102 (talk) 12:45, 21 April 2011 (UTC)

The Irish accent is a major influence on the accent of Jamaican English today
"The Irish accent is a major influence on the accent of Jamaican English today." WTF??? None of my homies in S London sound remotely like Dara o'Briain. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.113.170.72 (talk) 16:29, 16 June 2011 (UTC)
 * According to this website http://www.phon.ucl.ac.uk/home/wells/brogue.htm there is Irish influence in Jamaican English. Is this a suitable source for verification purposes? Differentshelf (talk) 21:32, 5 August 2012 (UTC)
 * Uh, that article strongly implies the complete opposite, although it's not really focused on Jamaican English at all. Wolfdog (talk) 13:01, 20 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Oi, mi bredren, yuh make a good point deh! Di Irish accent might not be di biggest influence on how we chat inna South London, and we don’t sound like Dara Ó Briain, that’s a fact. But when we talk ’bout Jamaican English, there’s a likkle sometin’ dem call “historical linguistics” – it’s like lookin’ back inna time to see how language mix up.Back inna di day, when Jamaica was a British colony, yuh had Irish indentured servants and African slaves all livin’ and chattin’ together. So, over time, different accents and dialects mixed up, and di Irish English one was one of dem. Yuh can check out some scientific studies, dem talk ’bout how languages and accents blend when people live together.Mi nah say di Irish accent run tings inna South London, but inna di mix of Jamaican English, yuh can hear likkle hints of all kinda accents from di past. It’s just one piece of di puzzle, innit? – Mariâ Magdalina (talk) 22:37, 13 October 2023 (UTC)

West African influence?
How does this article not mention Africa? natemup (talk) 19:22, 26 April 2022 (UTC)

 * Probably for one of two reasons, if not a mixture of both: One, No one has cited reliable, published sources that discuss such influences, assuming. such sources exist. Two, most West African influence is probably felt indirectly through Jamaican Patois, which article does discuss such influences. BilCat (talk) 19:39, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * @Natemup I think part of the problem comes with distinguishing Jamaican English from Jamaican Patois, since what you're really talking about is a continuum (cf. post-creole continuum) with Jamaican standard English as the acrolect and "pure" Patwah as the basilect. Our way of writing articles doesn't handle that well. In part because of how people write, and in part because of the way sources partition what is truly a continuum. Guettarda (talk) 21:02, 26 April 2022 (UTC)
 * Mi bredren Natemup, yuh bring up a valid point deh, yuh notice seh di article nuh mention Africa. Well, yuh know, sometimes articles focus on di specific aspects dem, and it might not cover everyting. But if yuh feel seh Africa’s influence pon Jamaican English is important and yuh can find some reliable sources fi back it up, mi would suggest yuh write about it yuhself. Yuh can add dat piece to di puzzle and mek di article even richer. It’s di beauty of wikis, people like yuh can contribute and mek di knowledge grow. So gwaan, mek yuh voice be heard! Respect, mi man. – Mariâ Magdalina (talk) 02:27, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * This not Jamaican Patwah Wikipedia. Please write in Standard English so others editors can understand and respond, per WP:ENGLISHPLEASE. BilCat (talk) 05:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Which English dialects are permitted on talk pages, and which ones are not? Please provide a link to the relevant rule. @BilCat – Mariâ Magdalina (talk) 09:24, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * What constitutes Standard English: British or American? – Mariâ Magdalina (talk) 09:29, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Alright, I ’ear ya loud and clear. No need to be too posh about it, innit? I get where you’re comin’ from. We’ll keep it in the Queen’s English for ya, no worries. If ya ’ave any more thoughts or questions, just give us a shout, guv’nor. We’re ’ere to ’elp ya out. Cheers! – Mariâ Magdalina (talk) 11:34, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * So you've gone from offending Jamaicans to offending lower-class English persons. How are you going to offend next?? BilCat (talk) 17:15, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Blimey, no offense intended, luv! I’m a woman who speaks Cockney in my everyday chat, and I’ve got nuffink but love for the people of Jamaica and their accent. We’re all different, innit, and that’s what makes the world an interestin’ place. If I’ve given the wrong idea, I apologize, mate. No ’arm meant, just chattin’ the way I’m used to. Cheers! 😊💜 – Mariâ Magdalina (talk) 17:25, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * I’m dead set against all that classism malarkey. Everyone’s got their own story, their own way of speakin’, and they’re all worth their salt. I’m a staunch supporter of equality, an intersectional feminist, and a proper anarcha-feminist too. No matter the dialect. Cheers to equality, mate! 🌟 – Mariâ Magdalina (talk) 17:42, 14 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Just use standard English. The point of talk pages is to be understood by people from all over the world, and most won't understand Patwah or Cockney. BilCat (talk) 01:38, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Oi, guv’nor! I’ll give it a whirl, but I reckon it’s important we show a bit of respect for all them dialects, innit? Everyone’s got their own way of chattin’, and that’s what makes the world a proper interesting place, don’t it? – Mariâ Magdalina (talk) 01:57, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * That's why there's Facebook, Twitter, et al. BilCat (talk) 03:34, 15 October 2023 (UTC)
 * @BilCat It’s important to note that the Wikipedia guidelines, to the best of my knowledge, do not impose significant limitations on self-expression on talk pages. I hold a deep respect for all dialects of English, and you are welcome to communicate with me in any dialect that suits your preferences.However, it’s worth mentioning that the articles I write adhere strictly to Standard English, as per Wikipedia’s guidelines. Communication on talk pages, on the other hand, allows for a wider range of linguistic expression. If you prefer Standard English, I am more than willing to oblige.I do want to mention that I do not have Twitter or Facebook accounts. My primary mode of communication with fellow Wikimedians is through the Discord messenger in other languages, aside from English. – Mariâ Magdalina (talk) 18:31, 16 October 2023 (UTC)
 * My decision is based on concerns I share with technology advocate Richard Stallman, a prominent figure in the world of free software and digital rights.Richard Stallman, known for his tireless advocacy for software freedom, has voiced numerous concerns regarding Facebook and Twitter. He has highlighted issues such as Facebook’s data collection practices, its prioritization of profit over user privacy, and its history of questionable actions that could infringe upon individuals’ rights. Similarly, he has raised awareness about Twitter’s challenges, including potential censorship, algorithmic content manipulation, and the consequences of relying on proprietary software.As a supporter of open-source software and digital rights, I find Richard Stallman’s insights compelling. It’s important to note that the GNU Project, initiated by Stallman, plays a crucial role in ensuring the availability of free and open-source software, which is essential for Wikimedia projects and various other aspects of the digital world. – Mariâ Magdalina (talk) 21:03, 16 October 2023 (UTC)

This doesn’t make logical sense
“This has been attributed to the Jamaican education system normalising and promoting a rhotic variety of English. Thus, the overall degree of rhoticity in educated Jamaican English remains very low, with rhoticity occurring 21.7% of the time.”

Presumably it should say either “non-rhoticity” or “however” Transient Being (talk) 21:11, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Bob marly Rasta
Bob marly Rasta man Jamaica 2A00:23EE:1018:545A:D470:D3A1:7BF6:1681 (talk) 21:16, 8 May 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Jamaican English


text:
Phang Nga

Phang Nga (พังงา,, ) is a town (thesaban mueang) in southern Thailand, capital of Phang Nga Province. The town covers the whole tambon Thai Chang of Mueang Phang Nga district. As of 2005 it had a population of 9,559 and covered an area of 6.75 km². Phang Nga is 764 km from Bangkok by road.

The municipal administration was created on 11 February 1937. The town is subdivided into nine wards (chumchon).
 * 1) Talat Yai (ตลาดใหญ่)
 * 2) Borirak Bamrung (บริรักษ์บำรุง)
 * 3) Samakkhi (สามัคคี)
 * 4) Thung Chedi (ทุ่งเจดีย์)
 * 5) Ruamchai Phatthana (ร่วมใจพัฒนา)
 * 6) Na Krok Khok Ya (นากรอกคอกหญ้า)
 * 7) Thanon Mai (ถนนใหม่)
 * 8) Khao Chang (เขาช้าง)
 * 9) Wang Mokaeng (วังหม้อแกง)

Notable people

 * Teerayoot Suebsil (born 1978), professional footballer

title: Phang Nga


text:
Phayao

Phayao is a city (thesaban mueang) in northern Thailand, capital of Phayao Province. For administrative purposes the city is divided into 15 sub-districts (tambons), which are further subdivided into 172 administrative villages.

The town is on the shore of the Phayao Lake. It dates back to the semi-independent city-state (mueang), founded between 900 and 1,000 years ago.

As of 2005 Phayao had a population of 19,118. Phayao lies 726 km north of Bangkok.

title: Phayao


text:
Talk:Cover-up

The link on Legend that led me to this article had this definition: "Legend (espionage), a cover story used in espionage detailing a fictitious identity" -- which appears nowhere in the actual article. Please remedy this and be vigilant that the article is not being steered, one way or another.

Thanks, -Bonnie Eng. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.10.186.116 (talk) 04:09, 27 October 2011 (UTC)

Satire
The link to the site about the sinking of the Titanic is an obvious piece of satire, written by the notorious Maddox, a well-known satirist.

As such, I'll remove the link. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.187.86.137 (talk) 16:53, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

Snowjob
Being bold and merging Snowjob to here; I think its uncontroversial because its a synonym stub. It does list a few more scandals however. Content was:

"Snowjob" is an American colloquialism for a lie or a cover-up.

Examples

 * The Dreyfus Affair
 * The Watergate scandal
 * The Iran-contra affair
 * The My Lai Massacre
 * The Plame Affair scandal
 * The 9/11 conspiracy theories
 * The "Vast Right-Wing Conspiracy"
 * The USS Pueblo incident
 * The Mark Foley scandal
 * The Travelgate scandal
 * The Lewinsky scandal
 * The Abscam scandal

Citations needed
I put some citations, where called for. Some were easy to get such as John F. Kennedy assassination cover-up and conspiracy theories, and some were surprisingly difficult, such as Plame affair, mostly due to link rot. Anyway if there are questions let me know on my talk pay please.--Adam in MO Talk 06:26, 5 March 2010 (UTC)

Lead too long
The article was tagged lead (lede or abstract) too long; the article started off with the first section of the article and there was no lead. I seperated a lead paragraph from first section of article using the related Whitewash (censorship) article as a model and noted how cover-up and whitewash differ; removed lead too long tag. Naaman Brown (talk) 10:21, 9 June 2010 (UTC)

Legend (espionage) redirection
The redirection to this page from Legend (espionage) is wrong. A Legend in espionage has little connection with the rest of this topic. An Legend is a fake identity used by a spy to pass themselves. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.72.194.178 (talk) 22:44, 11 December 2010 (UTC) ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by BARRYWBALES (talk • contribs) 08:33, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

...or is it SNOW job?
I'm thinking this term may have it's origins from WWII espionage: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Owens — Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.116.53.117 (talk) 19:07, 5 July 2011 (UTC)

I do not think "snow job" is synonymous with "cover up". It is actually the exact opposite. A cover-up is an attempt to conceal information. A snow job is a negotiation tactic whereby one party attempts to overwhelm the other party with a deluge of information. This can be used for intimidation or to exhaust the other party's resources. It is considered a hardball tactic by professional negotiators. My source is "Essentials of Negotiation" by Lewicki, Saunders, and Barry. Richard,alfred.swartz (talk) 14:55, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Not a cover-up, not a snow job, what is this?
Watt released papers in the 1930s claiming that he was grateful for the Air Ministry's help finding a suitable site for his ionosphere research. This was of course the first chain home radar site being set up. I always called this a "cover story", but that page is a disambig that points here, which is not correct. So what is? Maury Markowitz (talk) 10:49, 16 May 2014 (UTC)
 * Cover story isn't redirected here. It is a dab page that offers two options, including the following:
 * a story in a magazine or newspaper whose subject matter appears on its front cover
 * Dolphin ( t ) 23:08, 31 July 2014 (UTC)

Cleanup to meet Wikipedia's quality standards
Since March 2010 (4 years) this article has carried the banner stating: This article may require cleanup to meet Wikipedia’s quality standards. The article makes many claims and statements but almost all of them are unsupported by any in-line citation to enable them to be independently verified. I have inserted a number of banners stating: This section does not cite any references or sources. See my diff.

In the absence of adequate in-line citations, this article looks like nothing more than someone’s personal essay. WP:NOTESSAY states: ''Wikipedia is not a place to publish your own thoughts and analyses or to publish new information. Per our policy on original research, please do not use Wikipedia for any of the following:''
 * Personal essays that state your particular feelings about a topic (rather than the opinions of experts). Although Wikipedia is supposed to compile human knowledge, it is not a vehicle to make personal opinions become part of such knowledge. In the unusual situation where the opinions of an individual are important enough to discuss, it is preferable to let other people write about them.

WP:VERIFY states that any information that is challenged, or likely to be challenged, must be supported by an in-line citation to show that it comes from a reliable source. In the absence of adequate verifiability, this article must be considered nothing more than a personal essay and those unsourced sections must be removed. Dolphin ( t ) 12:11, 1 August 2014 (UTC)

Suggestion: improve this article!
I wonder if someone could improve this page and turn it in a good or featured article. The matter is very important for the society as a whole, specially for us, the citizens! Many of us (probably the majority) do not believe on such cover-up operations, due to lack of quality public information about the subject. This topic is generally treated as being just a conspiracy theory. I would be glad to translate it.Faltur (talk) 13:11, 3 April 2016 (UTC)

 * I agree! See my thread immediately above this one. Dolphin  ( t ) 23:02, 24 April 2017 (UTC)

Cruikshank caricature
First of all, I'm missing context. What does the "cover-up" in the caption refer to? Second, the wikipedia caption links to Pope Benedict XV., which cannot be right, because he didn't even become pope until well after Cruikshank's death. If the attribution to 1819 is correct, then it should probably by Pius VII. But since I can't verify that one either (and don't know enough about the CoE to know what event might have triggered this caricature), I changed it to link to the general "Pope" page. --Flosch (talk) 11:08, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cover-up


text:
Rita

Rita may refer to:

People

 * Rita (given name)
 * Rita (Indian singer) (born 1984)
 * Rita (Israeli singer) (born 1962)
 * Rita (Japanese singer)
 * Eliza Humphreys (1850–1938), wrote under the pseudonym Rita

Places

 * Djarrit, also known as Rita, a community in the Marshall Islands
 * 1180 Rita, an asteroid
 * Rita, West Virginia
 * Santa Rita, California (disambiguation), several places

Film, television, and theater

 * Rita (1959 film), an Australian television play
 * Rita (2009 Italian film), an Italian film
 * Rita (2009 Indian film), a Marathi film directed by Renuka Shahane
 * Rita (2024 film), an upcoming Spanish drama film
 * Rita (TV series), a Danish television show
 * RITA Award, an award for romantic fiction
 * Educating Rita, a 1980 stage play by Willy Russel
 * Educating Rita (film), a 1983 British film based on that play
 * Rita Oberoi, fictional character in the 1982 Indian film Disco Dancer, played by Kim Yashpal
 * Rita Santos, an adult mermaid on the TV series Mako Mermaids

Music

 * Rita (opera), an 1841 opera by Gaetano Donizetti

Albums

 * Rita (Rita Yahan-Farouz album), 4× platinum album by Israeli singer Rita 1986
 * Rita, 2× platinum album by Rita MacNeil 1989
 * Rita (Rita Guerra album), a 2× platinum Portuguese-language album by Rita Guerra 2005

Songs

 * "Rita", a 1972 song by Arthur Conley
 * "Rita", a 1976 song by Marcel Khalife
 * "Rita", a 1967 song by The Men (pop rock band)
 * "Rita", a song by Powderfinger from the 2003 album Vulture Street

Other uses in arts and entertainment

 * Rita (roller coaster), a roller coaster at Alton Towers, England
 * Rita Repulsa, a villain in the TV series Mighty Morphin Power Rangers

Weather

 * Hurricane Rita
 * Tropical Storm Rita (disambiguation), the name of several storms

Other uses

 * Rita (fish), a genus of catfishes
 * RiTa, an open-source programming library
 * Budweiser Rita, a group of flavored drinks made by Anheuser-Busch
 * Research and Innovative Technology Administration, research programs agency within the U.S. Department of Transportation
 * Resistance Inside the Army, a protest movement
 * RIT Ambulance, an emergency medical services organization
 * Rta (also transliterated as Rita), a cosmic order in Hinduism
 * Rita the Rock Planter, a giant wooden sculpture in Colorado, USA.
 * Nakajima G8N, Japanese WWII naval heavy bomber, codenamed "Rita"

title: Rita


text:
The Beat

The Beat may refer to:

Film and television

 * The Beat (1988 film), an American drama starring William McNamara
 * The Beat (2003 film), an American drama starring Jazsmin Lewis
 * The Beat (TV series), a 2000s American drama series
 * The Beat (Philippine TV program), a current affairs and talk program
 * The !!!! Beat, a 1966 American music series.
 * The Beat with Ari Melber, a news and politics show on MSNBC

Music

 * The Beat (British band), a British ska band, known in the United States as the English Beat and in Australia as the British Beat
 * The Beat (American band), a power-pop band, later known as Paul Collins Beat
 * The Beat (American band album), their debut album
 * The Beat (Boney James album), 2013 album by Boney James
 * "The Beat", a song by Basshunter from his LOL <(^^,)> album
 * "The Beat", a song by Elvis Costello from the album This Year's Model
 * "The Beat", a song by Ima Robot from the album Monument to the Masses
 * The Beat: Go-Go's Fusion of Funk and Hip-Hop, a 2001 compilation album

Radio

 * The Beat (Sirius), on Sirius Satellite Radio
 * CFBT-FM, "The Beat 94.5", in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada
 * CKBT-FM, "91.5 The Beat", in Kitchener, Ontario, Canada
 * KKBT, "100.3 The Beat", in Los Angeles, California, U.S.
 * KZCE, "101.1 The Beat", in Phoenix, Arizona, U.S.
 * WMIB, "103.5 The Beat", in Miami and Fort Lauderdale, Florida, U.S.
 * WBTJ, "106.5 The Beat", in Richmond, Virginia, U.S.
 * The Beat 99.9 FM, in Lagos, Nigeria

Other media

 * The Beat (magazine), a free crime-prevention magazine in London
 * The Beat 102.7, a fictional radio station in the video game Grand Theft Auto IV
 * Comics Beat, a comics magazine

title: The Beat


text:
Talk:Optometry

Do they travel
How much do they pay 41.116.17.171 (talk) 18:15, 10 April 2022 (UTC)

Optometry listed as medical specialty
The occupation type for optometry is listed as "medical specialty" however this is not accurate. Optometrists do not go to medical school or hold an MD or DO degree. This is misleading and confusing to the general public. Titanfreemont (talk) 20:27, 23 July 2022 (UTC)

Is it evidence-based?
. 195.187.108.130 (talk) 16:24, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

Where's the "metry"?
There's plenty with regards to optometry as a medical practice and career, but not much with regards to the actual practice of measurement. For instance, what units of measure are used, and what do those units mean? How are they taken?

Should this page really be exclusive to the medical practitioners, without any regard to the taking of measurements themselves, with the title revised to "Optometry (medical practice)"? Should the "what" and "how" of taking these measurements really be moved to another page, with some disambiguation text on the top of each page, to make clear the distinction?

It appears that there's an educational interest that isn't being served, here. Can something be done about it, please? 108.7.205.216 (talk) 18:48, 20 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Optometry


text:
Talk:God in Tenrikyo

merge
This article is likely to remain a stub indefinitely. Why not merge it into the Tenrikyo article? Jimp 03:39, 6 June 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:God in Tenrikyo


text:
Talk:Cross-breeding

Deleted and redirected this:

Cross-breeding is the idea of two different (genetically) beings, that breed together to raise offspring, which combine the abilities of both parents.

Many modern dog-races are actually a mixture of previous races, but emerged as separate races.

Article already exists and is better explained at hybrid. All this information is contained therein. The reference to hybrid vigour is fully explained at heterosis.

Quill 21:58, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Further, this should be at crossbreeding (no hyphen). Crossbreed already exists. Perhaps there should be an entry at Crossbreeding and this should redirect there? Just in case there really is enough info for a general article on crossbreeding? Quill 22:17, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

title: Talk:Cross-breeding


text:
Recreation Park (Detroit)

Recreation Park was a ballpark located in Detroit. It is best known as the home of the Detroit Wolverines of the National League from 1881 to 1888.

Recreation Park was built in 1879. Its developers intended it to be a multi-use facility. There was a half-mile dirt track running along the outside of the property to be used for horse racing, bicycling and foot races. The owners also envisioned use for baseball, cricket, archery, croquet, as well as ice skating in the winter.

Detroit fielded a minor league team that summer. Two years later the Wolverines major league team made its debut. The first major league baseball game in Detroit was played here on May 2, 1881.

As the 1880s progressed, the team improved and won the National League pennant in 1887, as well as the World Series, defeating the St. Louis Browns of the American Association. By the end of the next season, the club was losing money in spite of its successes, and dropped out of the league. Minor league ball resumed in 1889 and was played for two seasons (plus one game in 1891) before the club folded altogether. Recreation Park continued to be used for various other activities, but by 1894 it was pretty much abandoned, and the structures were demolished.

The Park was on a rectangular site north of the downtown area, less than a mile from the location of the future Comerica Park. The field was laid out so that the foul lines hit the fences at a 135° angle, similar to the Polo Grounds and various other parks of that era. It was bounded on the south by Brady Street, on the east by Beaubien Street, and on the west by Harper Hospital, beyond which lay John R Street. Brush Street made a T-intersection against Brady at the southwest corner of the lot where the main entrance gate was. For that reason, the location is often given as simply "Brady and Brush Streets."

Across the centerfield fence, to the north, was the other half of the Recreation Park complex, a cricket field. Contemporary maps depict an oval track around the cricket field, as with the baseball field, and a larger oval enclosing the entire property. The northern boundary of the property, according to initial contemporary newspaper accounts, was Fremont Street (now Canfield Street). Later accounts placed the northern border at Willis Street, a block south of Fremont / Canfield.

Although the ballpark is long gone, Harper Hospital still exists, housed in new buildings, and overlooking the site where the major league Wolverines once played. An historical marker commemorating Recreation Park is placed in what was once left field, among the buildings of the present Detroit Medical Center.

title: Recreation Park (Detroit)


text:
Talk:Chinatowns in Asia

Old talk
I think there should be some work on spelling in this article. Especially, "Urinals town," should, I think, be Ural town. Uralian town? Urinal is not, I think, a usual adjective for the "Ural Mountains"

More old talk
I am slightly disturbed and curious as to who wrote the phrase The overseas Chinese have suffered from de jure institutionalized discrimination by several governments and local populations, particularly in Cambodia under the Khmer Rouge, Indonesia under President Suharto, Malaysia and the Vietnam communist government... where Malaysia is also included in this list. There is absolutely no substantial proof whatsoever to support this claim as this country's racial unity is the pride of the country and the admiration by other nations. No specific abuse has ever been aimed at the Chinese in Malaysia throughout the years by any other races in this country as opposed to conditions elsewhere (evidenced particularly in Indonesia). I hope that the author of these lines would agree with my opinion -- Arthur
 * Racism does not have to be physical abuse. See Affirmative_action.  I put Malaysia back because the bumiputra laws do discriminate against Chinese. — J3ff 04:40, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Of course, if you're the dominant group and in power, you'll say there is no discrimination. Race relations, I say, are fairly superficial in Malaysia and elsewhere.

Strange Name
kitaiskii gorodok (Китайский Городок) almost have similiarty with indonesia name Glodok for chinatown. any know what the meaning gorodok and glodok?Daimond 14:59, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
 * No connection, unless Indonesian draws on Russian for vocabulary. Gorodok is the diminutive for "gorod" (fortress), and you'll also see the etymologically-related "grad", e.g. Novgorod, Stalingrad.  Gorodok is more like a fortified town, I think, than a fortified city; someone from WP:Russia could answer that better (now linked in the templates at the top fo this page).Skookum1 (talk) 16:08, 17 November 2008 (UTC)

Malaysia
For "The population of the Chinatown in the city of Penang is mainly Hokkien Chinese. One of the biggest Chinatown in the world", if Penang and Malacca still called "Chinatown", the biggest Chinatown in the world is Taipei, because Taiwan is not a part of China.

Malaysian section edited. Also, see definition of Chinatown here : "A Chinatown is a section of an urban area with a large number of Chinese outside the majority-Chinese countries of Greater China". Greater China = PRC + ROC + HK + Macau. --Anggerik (talk) 21:08, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

more source plz
you just say there is a china town in asian russia by linking no article but some restaurant in russia and the other were just a picture of some dude. And for the rest you have no proof at all you just write without any real link or proof with all of the countries.--Quwazz22 (talk) 20:33, 31 January 2012 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Chinatowns in Asia


text:
Uthai Thani

Uthai Thani (อุทัยธานี, ) is a town (thesaban mueang) in Thailand, capital of the Uthai Thani Province, in the upper central region of the country. The town lies approximately 200 km north-west of Bangkok. It includes the entire tambon Uthai Mai of Mueang Uthai Thani district. The town is on the right bank of the Sakae Krang River, a few kilometers upstream from where it flows into the Chao Phraya. In 2008 it had a population of 16,787.

Notable people

 * Tewa Promma (born 1988), Thai footballer

title: Uthai Thani


text:
International Components for Unicode

International Components for Unicode (ICU) is an open-source project of mature C/C++ and Java libraries for Unicode support, software internationalization, and software globalization. ICU is widely portable to many operating systems and environments. It gives applications the same results on all platforms and between C, C++, and Java software. The ICU project is a technical committee of the Unicode Consortium and sponsored, supported, and used by IBM and many other companies. ICU has been included as a standard component with Microsoft Windows since Windows 10 version 1703.

ICU provides the following services: Unicode text handling, full character properties, and character set conversions; Unicode regular expressions; full Unicode sets; character, word, and line boundaries; language-sensitive collation and searching; normalization, upper and lowercase conversion, and script transliterations; comprehensive locale data and resource bundle architecture via the Common Locale Data Repository (CLDR); multiple calendars and time zones; and rule-based formatting and parsing of dates, times, numbers, currencies, and messages. ICU provided complex text layout service for Arabic, Hebrew, Indic, and Thai historically, but that was deprecated in version 54, and was completely removed in version 58 in favor of HarfBuzz.

ICU provides more extensive internationalization facilities than the standard libraries for C and C++. Future ICU 75 planned for April 2024 will require C++17 (up from C++11) or C11 (up from C99), depending on what languages is used. ICU has historically used UTF-16, and still does only for Java; while for C/C++ UTF-8 is supported, including the correct handling of "illegal UTF-8".

ICU 73.2 has improved significant changes for GB18030-2022 compliance support, i.e. for Chinese (that updated Chinese GB18030 Unicode Transformation Format standard is slightly incompatible); has "a modified character conversion table, mapping some GB18030 characters to Unicode characters that were encoded after GB18030-2005" and has a number of other changes such as improving Japanese and Korean short-text line breaking, and in "English, the name “Türkiye” is now used for the country instead of “Turkey” (the alternate spelling is also available in the data)."

ICU 74 "updates to Unicode 15.1, including new characters, emoji, security mechanisms, and corresponding APIs and implementations. [..] ICU 74 and CLDR 44 are major releases, including a new version of Unicode and major locale data improvements." Of the many changes some are for person name formatting, or for improved language support, e.g. for Low German, and there's e.g. a new spoof checker API, following the (latest version) Unicode 15.1.0 UTS #39: Unicode Security Mechanism.

Older version details
ICU 72 updated to Unicode 15 (and 73.2 to latest 15.1). "In many formatting patterns, ASCII spaces are replaced with Unicode spaces (e.g., a "thin space")." ICU (ICU4J) now requires Java 8 but "Most of the ICU 72 library code should still work with Java 7 / Android API level 21, but we no longer test with Java 7." ICU 71 added e.g. phrase-based line breaking for Japanese (earlier methods didn't work well for short Japanese text, such as in titles and headings) and support for Hindi written in Latin letters (hi_Latn), also referred to as "Hinglish". ICU 70 added e.g. support for emoji properties of strings and can now be built and used with C++20 compilers (and "ICU operator== and operator!= functions now return bool instead of UBool, as an adjustment for incompatible changes in C++20"), and as of that version the minimum Windows version is Windows 7. ICU 67 handles removal of Great Britain from the EU. ICU 64.2 added support for Unicode 12.1, i.e. the single new symbol for current Japanese Reiwa era (but support for it has also been backported to older ICU versions down to ICU 4.8.2). ICU 58 (with Unicode 9.0 support) is the last version to support older platforms such as Windows XP and Windows Vista. Support for AIX, Solaris and z/OS may also be limited in later versions (i.e. building depends on compiler support). <!--

CLDR 44 has a long list of Known Issues (while ICU has "none"), see full list at: https://cldr.unicode.org/index/downloads/cldr-44#h.vax7o49mgyok

here partial:
 * The region-based firstDay value (see weekData) is currently [..]
 * Use 44.0.1 for CLDR 44 JSON NPM since 44.0.0 was tagged incorrectly.
 * unicodeVersion in ldmlSupplemental.dtd was not updated to 15.1 See CLDR-17225

In CLDR 44, the focus is on: 1. Formatting Person Names. Added further enhancements (data and structure) for formatting people's names. For more information on why this feature is being added and what it does, see Background. 2. Emoji 15.1 Support. [..] 3. Unicode 15.1 additions. Made the regular additions and changes for a new release of Unicode, including names for new scripts, collation data for Han characters, etc. 4. *Digitally disadvantaged language coverage*. Work began to improve DDL coverage, with the following DDL locales now having higher coverage levels:
 * 1. Modern: Cherokee, Lower Sorbian, Upper Sorbian
 * 2. Moderate: Anii, Interlingua, Kurdish, Māori, Venetian
 * 3. Basic: Esperanto, Interlingue, Kangri, Kuvi, Kuvi (Devanagari), Kuvi (Odia), [..]

BCP47 Changes
 * The Islamic calendar is now described as Hijri calendar in English, and may have also changed in other locales.

Supplemental Data Changes Remaining SI units were added. Because these are primarily of use in scientific fields, they are not translated.
 * New locales were added, including en_ID and es_JP, plus many locales at a Basic level.
 * Fixes
 * There was a fix made for the Zanb script, which was mistakenly categorized as special instead of regular.
 * There was a fix made to the BCP47 Latin↔ASCII transliterator ID
 * Units
 * The gasoline-energy-density unit (used in miles per gallon of gasoline equivalent (MPGe) for electric vehicles) and the pint-imperial (used in the UK), plus many Japanese traditional units were added.
 * The unit of wind speed, Beaufort, was added for translation in locales where it is used.
 * A few traditional English units were added, such as chain and fortnight. These were not translated.
 * [..]

JSON Data changes
 * Available at: https://github.com/unicode-org/cldr-json/releases/tag/44.0.0

Keyboard has a new DTD (keyboard3.dtd and the element). [also notes on and known issues:]

 * CLDR-17204 - there was an error in the DTD in the element. It is corrected in the linked PR.
 * CLDR-17205 - the keyboard charts are known to be broken. A fix is in progress.

Migrations -->
 * Unit systems provide information about general usage of units of measure. For example, "knot" is in the customary US and UK systems, but is also acceptable for use with SI.
 * [..]
 * Preferred hour formats indicate the preferred form for a locale: 11 PM vs 23:00 vs 11 in the evening.
 * Have changed substantially for many Latin American countries
 * Keyboard has a new DTD (keyboard3.dtd and the element). See the “Keyboard Changes” section.
 * PersonNames: In the process of moving out of Tech Preview, there were structure additions but also changes:"

Origin and development
After Taligent became part of IBM in early 1996, Sun Microsystems decided that the new Java language should have better support for internationalization. Since Taligent had experience with such technologies and were close geographically, their Text and International group were asked to contribute the international classes to the Java Development Kit as part of the JDK 1.1 internationalization APIs. A large portion of this code still exists in the and  packages. Further internationalization features were added with each later release of Java.

The Java internationalization classes were then ported to C++ and C as part of a library known as ICU4C ("ICU for C"). The ICU project also provides ICU4J ("ICU for Java"), which adds features not present in the standard Java libraries. ICU4C and ICU4J are very similar, though not identical; for example, ICU4C includes a Regular Expression API, while ICU4J does not. Both frameworks have been enhanced over time to support new facilities and new features of Unicode and Common Locale Data Repository (CLDR).

ICU was released as an open-source project in 1999 under the name IBM Classes for Unicode. It was later renamed to International Components For Unicode. In May 2016, the ICU project joined the Unicode consortium as technical committee ICU-TC, and the library sources are now distributed under the Unicode license.

MessageFormat
A part of ICU is the MessageFormat class, a formatting system that allows for any number of arguments to control the plural form (plural, selectordinal) or more general switch-case-style selection (select) for things like grammatical gender. These statements can be nested. ICU MessageFormat was created by adding the plural and selection system to an identically-named system in Java SE.

Alternatives
An alternative for using ICU with C++, or to using it directly, is to use Boost.Locale, which is a C++ wrapper for ICU (while also allowing other backends ). The claim for using it rather than ICU directly is that "is absolutely unfriendly to C++ developers. It ignores popular C++ idioms (the STL, RTTI, exceptions, etc), instead mostly mimicking the Java API." Another claim, that ICU only supports UTF-16 (and thus a reason to avoid using ICU) is no longer true with ICU now also supporting UTF-8 for C and C++.

title: International Components for Unicode


text:
Talk:Land ethic

Untitled
way too short for such a common topic in philosophy and environmental studies. Alba 13:59, 1 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Stan Rowe's critique
I'm not versed enough in the work of J. Stan Rowe at this point to enter Rowe's Critique of Leopold into the entry (or the ecocentricism entry), nor have I sufficiently studied Leopold to appraise Stan Rowe's position relative to Leopold's Land Ethic, but just to make it available, here is a paragraph from J. Stan Rowe's piece "Ecocentricism: The Chord that Harmonizes Humans and Earth"

"Wherever our sense of greatest importance lies, there also will our ethics be. The attempt to build ethical concern for the Ecosphere from the inside out, by add-ons starting with our selves and the human race, may soothe consciences for a little while, but it will be the kiss of death for wild nature. Aldo Leopold has been the influential exponent of ethics-by-extension, rationalized as an expedient for human survival. Unfortunately this approach only strengthens anthropocentrism, making it certain that land, air, water and other organisms will always in the crunch take second place to the welfare of self, family and friends. More sensible, but more difficult, is the ecocentric ethic that confers highest valuation on the Ecosphere which, by proxy, bestows ethical merit and concern on its subsidiary contents according to their compliance and cooperation. The self finds its ecological values in the welfare of the non-self."

Rowe is a proponent of ecosphere thinking and he is the author of A Manifesto for Earth.Stephen Mikesell 22:33, 24 August 2016 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Singing Coyote (talk • contribs)

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title: Talk:Land ethic


text:
Virginian

Virginian is a demonym used to describe something as being of, from, or related to the Commonwealth of Virginia of the United States of America; it can be used as both a noun and adjective.

Virginian may also refer to:

Railroads

 * Virginian (Amtrak train), a former Amtrak passenger train
 * Virginian Railway, a railroad located in Virginia and West Virginia in the United States that operated from 1909 to 1959

Ships

 * USS Virginian, two United States Navy vessels
 * SS Virginian, a passenger ship built in 1905 that became the Swedish transatlantic liner SS Drottningholm in 1920

Other uses

 * Virginian (automobile), an automobile produced briefly by the Richmond Iron Works of Richmond, Virginia
 * Virginian Golf Club, a golf course in Bristol, Virginia
 * Virginians, a barbershop chorus

title: Virginian


text:
Leftwinger

Leftwinger of left winger may refer to:

 * Left winger, a position in football
 * Left-Winger (comics), a Marvel Comics character
 * A person who holds left-wing political views

title: Leftwinger


text:
Talk:Law French

prochein ami
Sorry, but I don't know if it's the good expression in English but I believe there's an error it's "prochain ami" the good orthograph. I don't know the law expressions. --Locusfr 04:23, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Yes, prochain ami would be the standard spelling in French of France, but the Law French expression (or sometimes prochein amy) preserves an alternative spelling. Man vyi 06:11, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
 * Okay, I didn't know this expression--Locusfr 20:21, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Moving toward wikitable for terms
I have started the migration of the French terms to a wikitable similar to the Latin terms. I will add the TOC shortly and will start adding proper references -- for example, the Doctrine of Laches. Bruxisme (talk) 05:29, 2 November 2012 (UTC)bruxisme

Additions
How about privity, or the "dehors the will" theory in Equity? —Brigade Piron (talk) 13:08, 22 May 2018 (UTC)
 * Or charterparty (charte partie)? —Brigade Piron (talk) 21:26, 18 December 2018 (UTC)

Use of French in Parliament
I think that “La Reyne le veult” and the “small number of Norman French phrases that continue to be used in the course of parliamentary procedure” (i.e. in law-making) should be mentioned here as well. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.183.44.120 (talk) 11:50, 17 November 2018 (UTC)

Plagiarism
I found the following in "Textbook on Legal Language and Legal Writing", page 260:
 * Until the early fourteenth century, Law French largely coincided with the French used as an everyday language by the upper classes. As such, it reflected some of the changes undergone by the northern dialects of mainland French during the period. Thus, in the documents mentioned above, 'of the king' is render as del rey, whereas by about 1330 it had become du roi ...

This is verbatim what is in the article. I have not looked further to see what else is being plagiarized.

--165.204.77.11 (talk) 05:32, 28 January 2020 (UTC)

Pronunciation
As of today in Britain, are these terms pronounced as if they were French, or spoken in an anglicized way? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:C0:DF02:1B00:D97A:7936:1008:C321 (talk) 14:36, 10 October 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Law French


text:
Talk:Disadvantaged

POV
I have POV'd this article as the current content is poorly written and highly contentious for such a wide-ranging term as 'Disadvantaged'. Eddie.willers 01:07, 26 August 2005 (UTC)

I think this really ought to be a Wiktionary entry. --K e rowyn Leave a note 07:58, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Keep (with tage for improvement) May I first congratulate Eddie.willers. You are literally the first person on an article for deletion that has used the talk pages. It is quite clear the article needs improvement, however as Eddie said "the disadvantaged" is a common term which I am certain will yield many results if I searched for it. So, there is clearly potential for an article. I would have thought the appropriate procedure would be to ask for improvement and only if that fails to request a delete! --Mike 23:02, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

 * As I voted that it did deserve an article - I did a bit of editing and now believe I've done enough to warrant removal of all the tags which should encourage the original author to improve the article! Unfortunately I'm not sure on all these stupid procedures and if I do remove them I'll probably get banned for life or sent to work for micro$oft. Perhaps someone who knows what they are doing could remove all the tags and add the bits and pieces I know nothing about (ideally tell me what they are so I can add them myself), e.g. why isn't there a contents list? (Found it - I missed it with all these stupid tags - isn't it ironic, a tag saying "tidy up" which completely messes up the article!

 * Wikipedia articles are never deleted - they only go to join the Wikipedia Ghosts!

--Mike 11:23, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

 * B*gg*r - Why am I bothering I'm leaving it as it is, someone's bound to delete it anyway (I think the notices are getting to me!), I'm off! --Mike 12:03, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Just remove the prod tags and it won't be deleted. If people still think it should be deleted, they need to take it to AFD.  There is no rule against removing the prod tag! I'll do that now for you QuiteUnusual 15:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Why does this article exist?
Each of the sections covers a topic that is encyclopedic and deserves an article of its own. However, I see no point in putting them all under the umbrella of the term "disadvantaged". I don't think they share enough commonality to warrant that. If no one puts up a compelling argument to keep this article, I will nominate it for deletion. AFD debates are often stressful to those who support keeping an article so I propose that we discuss it first here before I take the next step to nominate it for deletion. Maybe I can be convinced that I'm wrong.

--Richard 00:29, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
 * I'm in total agreement; this article should not exist. Valrith 01:59, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

--Mike 23:08, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Stop talking nonsense Richard if you say that it can be split into any one of three articles each of which you agree should exist then you can't also say that one article with all three should be deleted. If you don't like it - put in the work to improve it!

 * Ha ha. Hoisted on my own petard.  That "If you don't like it -...." remark is a page out of my book.  Being an inclusionist, I certainly believe that articles should be expanded and improved until they can be kept.  I much prefer to expand and improve rather than delete.

 * However, in this case, my argument is that the three phrases are mostly similar because they share the word "disadvantaged" and that, other than that, the three topics have little to do with each other except for that one word. Put it this way: If we simply had one separate article on each of the three topics, would anything be lost by deleting this one?  If not, then I will gladly create the three articles because I believe each one is encyclopedic in its own right.

 * While this is a bit of a silly analogy, it is somewhat like having an article called French which covers "French fries","French toast" and "French kissing". (Yeah, yeah, I know that's really taking things to an extreme but you get my point.)

 * --Richard 04:28, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

 * Richard - Ah - you are an inclusionist not a deletionist - (an angel not a devil!) That puts your comments in a very different light. Like you I think there is a good article here. As originally written it was the expected "the disadvantaged deserve support", which was in immediate danger of becoming a Wikighost - seeing the notice I felt that the term was used with a specific meaning, so I pulled together what information I could find in the short time available hoping to stave off the devils and let someone with more knowledge in the area put it together properly.

My fear about separating them would be that a deletionist would come along and zap the lot. This isn't a subject I know a lot about, so I can't really productively add much to the present article or say with any certainty whether it should be several smaller articles or one large! --Mike 12:01, 31 October 2006 (UTC)

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Split (2022)
This article is a grabbag of two different topics. They should be split apart, and a disambiguation page put in its place with the two concepts here, and a link to disadvantage (politics); and a see also for drawback (disambiguation).

I suggest the two topics be titled disadvantaged (disability) and disadvantaged (economics). Most of this article would be "disadvantaged (economics)" while a stub from the bullet point for "disadvantaged (disablity)" would be created.

Alternately, the "disadvantaged (disability)" should be deleted, since it makes a mess of this article.
 * too small to split, already basically a stub and likely entirely redundant with other articles; splitting would be a move in the wrong direction. This isn't wiktionary. 98.4.112.204 (talk) 06:20, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

-- 64.229.88.43 (talk) 02:22, 21 June 2022 (UTC)

poverty
advantages and disadvantages 223.231.159.238 (talk) 16:25, 12 August 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Disadvantaged


text:
Arnold Gesell

Arnold Lucius Gesell (21 June 1880 – 29 May 1961) was an American psychologist, pediatrician and professor at Yale University known for his research and contributions to the fields of child hygiene and child development.

Early life
Gesell was born in Alma, Wisconsin, and later wrote an article analyzing his experiences there entitled "The Village of a Thousand Souls". The eldest of five children, Arnold and his siblings were born to photographer Gerhard Gesell and schoolteacher Christine Giesen. His first experience in observing child development involved watching his younger siblings learn and grow until he graduated from high school in 1896.

After high school, Gesell attended Stevens Point Normal School, where a course taught by Edgar James Swift led Arnold to take an interest in psychology. Gesell worked as a high school teacher briefly before leaving to study at the University of Wisconsin. Later, he studied history under Frederick Jackson Turner and psychology under Joseph Jastrow, receiving a bachelor of philosophy degree from Wisconsin in 1903.

Career
Gesell served as a teacher and high school principal before seeking his psychological doctorate at Clark University, where the university's president, G. Stanley Hall, had founded the child study movement. Arnold received his Ph.D. from Clark in 1906.

Gesell worked at several educational facilities in New York City and Wisconsin before obtaining a professorship at the Los Angeles State Normal School, now known as the University of California, Los Angeles. There he met fellow teacher Beatrice Chandler, who would become his wife. They had a daughter and a son, Federal District Judge Gerhard Gesell.

Gesell also spent time at schools for the mentally disabled, including the Vineland Training School in New Jersey. Having developed an interest in the causes and treatment of childhood disabilities, Gesell began studying at the University of Wisconsin Medical School in 1910 to better understand physiology. He accepted a position as assistant professor at Yale University in 1911, where he also continued to study medicine. He developed the Clinic of Child Development there and received his MD in 1915. He was later given a full professorship at Yale.

Gesell also served as the school psychologist for the Connecticut State Board of Education and helped develop classes to help children with disabilities succeed. This historic appointment made Gesell the first school psychologist in the United States. He wrote several books, including The Preschool Child from the Standpoint of Public Hygiene and Education in 1923, The Mental Growth of the Preschool Child in 1925 (which was also published as a film), and An Atlas of Infant Behavior (chronicling typical milestones for certain ages) in 1934. He coauthored with Frances Ilg two childrearing guides, Infant and Child in the Culture of Today in 1943 and The Child from Five to Ten in 1946.

Gesell made use of the latest technology in his research. He used the newest in video and photography advancements. He also made use of one-way mirrors when observing children, even inventing the Gesell dome, a one-way mirror shaped like a dome under which children could be observed without being disturbed. In his research, he studied many children, including Kamala, a feral child. He also did research on young animals, including monkeys.

As a psychologist, Gesell wrote and spoke about the importance of both nature and nurture in child development. He cautioned others not to be quick to attribute mental disabilities to specific causes. He believed that many aspects of human behavior, such as handedness and temperament, were heritable. He explained that children adapted to their parents as well as to one another. He advocated for a nationwide nursery school system in the United States.

Gesell's popular books spread his ideas beyond academia. His core message, urging parents to "nourish the child's trustfulness in life", resonated with child advocates long before Benjamin Spock became America's most prominent parental advisor. In The Child from Five to Ten, Gesell wrote, "It is no longer trite to say that children are the one remaining hope of mankind... If we could but capture their transparent honesty and sincerities! They still have much to teach us, if we observe closely enough."

Maturational theory and developmental schedules
Gesell's ideas came to be known as Gesell's Maturational Theory of child development. Based on his theory, he published a series of summaries of child development sequences, called the Gesell Developmental Schedules.

The Gesell Institute of Human Development, named after him, was started by his colleagues from the Clinic of Child Development, Frances Ilg and Louise Bates Ames in 1950, after Gesell retired from the university in 1948. In 2012, the institute was renamed the Gesell Institute of Child Development.

Personal
In 1911, Gesell married Beatrice Chandler who was a teacher he had met while working at Los Angeles State Normal School. The couple had a daughter and a son. Gesell died at his home in New Haven in 1961.

Selected works

 * Gesell, Arnold. "The Village of a Thousand Souls". American Magazine, October 1913, pp. 11–16.
 * Gesell, Arnold. The Preschool Child from the Standpoint of Public Hygiene and Education. 1923.
 * Gesell, Arnold. The Mental Growth of the Preschool Child. 1925.
 * Gesell, Arnold. An Atlas of Infant Behavior. 1934.
 * Gesell, Arnold. "Arnold Lucius Gesell" in Boring, E. G. History of Psychology in Autobiography 4: 123–42. Worcester, Massachusetts: Clark University Press, 1952.
 * Gesell, Arnold & Ilg, Frances L. Infant and Child in the Culture of Today. 1943.
 * Gesell, Arnold & Ilg, Frances L. The Child from Five to Ten. 1946.
 * Gesell, Arnold & Ilg, Frances L. Child Development: An Introduction to the Study of Human Growth. New York: Harper. 194
 * Gesell, Arnold, Ilg, Frances L., & Ames, L. B. Infant and Child in the Culture of Today: The Guidance of Development in Home and Nursery School (Rev. ed.). New York: Harper & Row, 1974.
 * Gesell, Arnold, Thompson, H., & Amatruda, C. S. The Psychology of Early Growth, Including Norms of Infant Behavior and a Method of Genetic Analysis. New York: The Macmillan Company, 1938.

title: Arnold Gesell


text:
Talk:Amicus (trade union)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived debate of the . Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

no consensus --liquidGhoul 10:11, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Amicus → Amicus (trade union) followed by Amicus (disambiguation) → Amicus … Rationale: I'm just passing through here but as "Amicus" relates to six different articles I think it makes sense to have Amicus lead directly to the disambiguation page, rather than an article about the British trade union. --172.145.66.250 21:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)

Survey

 * Add *Support or *Oppose followed by an optional one-sentence explanation, then sign your opinion with  ~

 * Oppose - The "what links here" function indicates that Amicus is the primary topic. --Muchness 09:03, 22 July 2006 (UTC)

Discussion

 * Add any additional comments

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Biggest private sector?
It is incorrect to call Amicus the "biggest" "private sector" union. Unite is not a private-sector union, but one which organizes most greatly within private industry and this is where most of its membership are based. However, Unite has a large NHS contingent including most NHS biomedical and pathology staff, plus Health Visitors.

Tim Sandle —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.139.172.126 (talk) 11:07, 7 March 2009 (UTC)

Requested move 16 August 2019

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: moved as proposed.  Calidum   20:06, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

Amicus → Amicus (trade union) – A defunct trade union that only lasted for 6 years is not the WP:PTOPIC for "Amicus". See page views for related topics. feminist (talk) 15:47, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Weak support Amicus curiae gets over 24x the views of the trade union but its a PTM, the charity gets less than a 6th of the views. A Google search returns more results for the charity but that's probably because its current. Presumably you are proposing no primary topic (meaning moving Amicus (disambiguation) to the base name) which I think makes sense.  Crouch, Swale  ( talk ) 16:16, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Support per nom and move dab page to base name. Far greater reader interest in Amicus Productions which sources often refer to as just "Amicus":, . PC78 (talk) 20:11, 16 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Support, no clear primary topic. —Xezbeth (talk) 15:33, 17 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Support Looking at source links to Amicus, a lot of them are mis-targeted (usually with the actual intended target being Amicus curiae), which is another good piece of evidence that this should not be ptopic. Colin M (talk) 14:50, 19 August 2019 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

title: Talk:Amicus (trade union)


text:
Talk:Wallpaper

Yes- more needed
I have done what i can, but I'm dubious about much of what was there & it needs major expansion but 1 who knows Johnbod 23:07, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Can someone add information about types/sizes of modern wallpapers? Vinyl, paper, etc. 68.49.115.183 (talk) 18:25, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

I will be adding info. on topic, adhesive. Also I can add to Types/ Sizes. I attended L.A. Trade Tech and have hung Wallcovering professionally for 20 Years.June 2009 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4babs (talk • contribs) 19:42, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

Formula for amount needed?
Just add that additional repeat pattern to the height of the wallcovering

Does anyone know a mathematical formula for how much wallpaper to buy when the pattern "drops" x number of inches or cm? (And, of course, you know the area of wall to be covered.)

Chinese Wallpapers
Please compare de:Chinesische Tapete. --Pjacobi 12:30, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Copyvio removal
I removed a hunk of text in this edit because it appears to have been copied verbatim from. -- RoySmith (talk) 22:52, 1 January 2009 (UTC)

Types of Wallcoverings and Sizes
There is numerous types of Wallcoverings. We will touch on the most common and the most common factory trimmed dimensions. Two of the most common factory trimmed sizes of wallpaper are referred to as either American or European rolled goods. American rolled good are 27 inches by 27 feet in length. European rolled goods are 21.5 inches wide by 33 feet in length. 60 and 59 square feet respectively. Most Wallpaper Boarders are sold by linear foot and with a wide range of widths therefore square footage is not applicable. Although some may require trimming. The most common wall covering for residential use and is generally the most economical is Prepasted Vinyl Coated Paper, it is generally referred to as “strippable” which can be very misleading. (see Wallpaper Removal) Clothed backed Vinyl is fairly common and is probably the most durable and the lighter duty the Vinyl the easier they will be to handle and hang. Paper backed Vinyl’s are also found and are generally more expensive also significantly more difficult to hang also can be found wider widths. There is Foil Wallpaper generally have paper backing and can be up to 36 inches wide can also be very difficult to handle and hang. There are several different textile Wallpapers from Silks, Linens, Grass cloths, Strings, Rattan, actual impressed Leafs. There are acoustical Wall Carpets to reduce sound, the Types are only limited to the imagination. Although personal custom Wallcoverings will be expensive and most often have minimum roll orders. Solid vinyl with a cloth backing is most common commercial wallcovering and comes from the factory as untrimmed at 54 inches approximately, to be overlapped and double cut by the installer. This same type can be prê-trimmed at the factory to 27 inches.4babs (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 05:15, 15 July 2009 (UTC).

If someone can put a new section "Types of Wallcoverings and Sizes" may I can read up on how this is done. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 4babs (talk • contribs) 16:09, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

Out of fashion?
It appears to me, at least here in Australia, that wallpaper is much less popular than it used to be. New houses generally don't have wallpaper, and it is commonly removed (and not replaced) when renovating older ones. Could we comment on its present-day popularity (or lack thereof) compared to the past? 220.101.86.93 (talk) 07:34, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

 * Regardless of popularity, I would never consider wallpaper as "art".  The wall exists to display and support other art, but the wall itself should not be the art. Yes this is an opinion not supported by experts or even a reference, but I ask the reader to think about it.   I'd love to see more expert commentary on the value of wallpaper from an artistic sense. --96.35.104.135 (talk) 03:44, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

Ceplm (talk) 22:03, 24 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I think it would be lovely to have some explanation what was the purpose of wallpapers, why they were so popular in 1900s (see 1900 House) and why they so fall out of fashion later. Was there a difference in technology of room paint?

Custom wallpaper
Would anyone be interested in learning more about custom wallpaper that  can bring "fashion"  or new design thoughts for homes and offices? New printing technology allows individuals to create custom wallpaper designs using digital photos or art. This could help people understand the diversity that is available when it comes to wallpapering their home or office. MeredithNH (talk) 20:27, 16 February 2012 (UTC)

RGB wallpaper
In 2010, Milan based design/art duo Carnovsky launched a series of wallpapers that change patterns with the use of colored lights. The images depicted on the wallpaper are revealed or hidden under a Red Green and Blue color changing illumination. It won the Wallpaper Magazine Design Awards 2011 for Best Wallpaper. website ; online articles ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; Carnovsky is a Milan based art/design duo formed by Silvia Quintanilla and Francesco Rugi

Measurements
> Accurate room measurements (length, width, and height) along with number of window and door openings is essential for ordering wallpaper.

Paper is routinely bought without such. It becomes significant with large buildings and high price paper, for more average houses its perfectly practical to ignore windows and use less than precise measurements.

> Paper is sold (with very few exceptions) in double rolls.

The author doesn't state what that means. Single rolls are standard here in UK. 82.31.66.207 (talk) 22:22, 9 October 2013 (UTC) Paper is routinely bought without such. It becomes significant with large buildings and high price paper, for more average houses its perfectly practical to ignore windows and use less than precise measurementshttp://www.dramas3.pk/ — Preceding unsigned comment added by Qazi Nouman (talk • contribs) 19:46, 8 February 2015 (UTC)
 * They may not need to be precise, but they need to be made, & to be "accurate". I'll remove the second bit. Johnbod (talk) 13:09, 10 October 2013 (UTC)

Edit requested on October 27
Under the section'types and sizes', where it says "In terms of methods of creation, wallpaper types include painted wallpaper, hand-printed blockwood wallpaper, hand-printed stencil wallpaper, machine-printed wallpaper, and flock wallpaper.[2]"

Would it possible to add more detail about these types of methods?Julie.101.99 (talk) 14:41, 27 October 2015 (UTC)
 * Possibly. But the edit request process is for implementing specific changes that you cannot make yourself due to a conflict of interest. Altamel (talk) 01:59, 29 October 2015 (UTC)

Removal
Since there is a section on installation within this page I notice a need for a removal section. I have attempted to add a section but I am getting reverted by admin over and over again concerning sourcing material. If HGTV isn't a trusted enough unbiased source I don't know what is. Jwall2023 (talk) 03:17, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

 * See WP:NOTHOWTO. Tutorial content is off-topic for this encyclopedia. MrOllie (talk) 04:51, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Wallpaper


text:
North-Western Rhodesia

North-Western Rhodesia, in south central Africa, was a territory administered from 1891 until 1899 under charter by the British South Africa Company. In 1890 the British South Africa Company signed a treaty with King Lewanika of the Barotse, one of the most powerful traditional rulers in the territory. The treaty did not confer protectorate status on the territory, as only the British government could confer that status. Nonetheless, the charter gave the territory protection. The territory consisted of the western half of present-day Zambia up to the Kafue River, its border with North-Eastern Rhodesia. Later the border between the two chartered territories was moved east, but the distinction did not have any great implications.

In 1899 North-Western Rhodesia was amalgamated with Barotseland to form Barotziland-North-Western Rhodesia, an official British protectorate. In 1911 Barotziland-North-Western Rhodesia was amalgamated with North-Eastern Rhodesia to form Northern Rhodesia. Today this is the Republic of Zambia.

title: North-Western Rhodesia


text:
Talk:Religious art

Untitled
Needs more informed detail, particularly examples from before and after the Renaissance. +sj+ 11:11, 2004 Feb 22 (UTC)

 * ..."It can be an object to be venerated not for what it is but for what it represents, though venerated objects are more properly called sacramentals. Idols, which are worshipped in and of themselves, are not considered sacred art." Astonishing! "Idols" covertly redirected to idolatry. The expression "cult image" is new to Wikipedia! I have made this more neutral. --Wetman 19:02, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

Religious art?
Why does religious art redirect here, rather than the other way around? "Religious art" gets twice as many hits as "sacred art" on Google, and obviously whether or not art is "sacred" is much more dependant on one's POV than whether or not art is "religious". -Silence 23:31, 27 May 2006 (UTC)

Requested move

 * The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: page moved. Vegaswikian (talk) 21:11, 20 March 2012 (UTC)

Sacred art → Religious art – The name Sacred art is more limited in scope than the content of the article. It should be moved to Religious art as the main title as suggested by Silence below earlier. 2B or not 2B (talk) 15:50, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support - Why not? Agreed. --Michaelzeng7 (talk - contribs) 15:56, 12 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Oppose. I disagree that "religious art" is any more inclusive or less POV that the current title. "Sacred art" actually seems to be the more inclusive title; I thin"k "religious art" has some connotations of developed or organized religion. Overall, the rationale for this name change seems rather weak, and standard policy is of course not to change titles unless there's a clear and convincing reason to do so, which I don't believe there is. BlindMic (talk) 23:09, 13 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support Many Protestants and the great majority of Muslims would object to "sacred" - or rather deny that their group produces any "sacred art". It is surely far less common than religious art and should be moved on normal WP:COMMONNAME grounds. "Sacred" is a slippery and ambiguous term, as the comments above show. I might add that the Latin form "Ars sacra" is used in art history as a specific term for early medieval non-painted European religious art, in metalwork etc. Johnbod (talk) 00:42, 14 March 2012 (UTC)
 * Support. Far more readers are typing in "religious art" as a search term, according to Google Insights. "Religious art" is also more common on Google Books, according to this ngram Kauffner (talk) 02:47, 15 March 2012 (UTC)
 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

title: Talk:Religious art