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Talk:Murder by Numbers

Removing the hypothetical comparisons
I think that unless someone involved with the movie directly says that they pulled from a specific murder as inspiration there shouldn't be any crimes in the header of the article. It's only hypothetical and is based upon the opinion of the page's editor. While there are some similiarities between those things, there are countless other cases that could be considered similar. Unless the writer/director/actor/janitor or someone else involved in the movie wants to make a definate statement we cannot include those in the article. We cannot make generalized statments based on someone's theory. I'm removing it from the header of the article. If someone wants to add it they need to either find proof or give a REALLY good reason as to why it should be included. The only way those could otherwise be included is if someone were to tack it on as a sub-category. (Even then they really should have references.) Tokyogirl79 (talk) 10:22, 27 January 2009 (UTC)Tokyogirl79
 * Of course the Leopold and Loeb comparison will remain as that has a reference to confirm it's validity. Tokyogirl79 (talk) 10:23, 27 January 2009 (UTC)Tokyogirl79

Ignorant
This article starts well but gets into a downspin immediately. While the connection to the Leopold Loeb case is made obvious it seems to remain a fantasy of the author that there is a connection to Columbine and Dartmouth. Further - and this is even more incriminating - there is no attempt to even demonstrate a connection.

And this combined with the other previous comments below - complete with their excellent demonstration of the authors' agility in what they think is the 'English language' - gives one an overall rather depressing feeling.

Perhaps it is best as one pundit recently put it: leave the warning labels off OTC drugs and let the issue solve itself.

Other 'Comments'
Could anyone give me an analysis of the movie's two main characters, focusing on 'white privelage' and 'anti-social' characteristics, please?

I feel the connections to the three crimes are tenuous at best, and there are no references supplied to link them to said crimes. Especially as the article claims that the Columbine shootings were done to gain popularity, while the killing in the film was supposed to be the "perfect murder" (ie, the killers would never be known).

The whole "Based On" section is total speculation and unverifiable claims, and also is written very poorly.

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ADD MORE INFO - IN PARTICULAR, HOW IT REFLECTS AMERICAN SOCIETY AT THE TIME THIS FILM WAS MADE, AS WELL AS HOW IT FITS (AND ALSO MANIPULATES) THE CRIME FICTION GENRE.

The Police?
If you are all crying about influences and cultural significance, I think it's somewhat important to mention that the movie takes it title from the song of the same name released by The Police.

It seems clear that the authors of this article either ignored this, or they are too young to have ever heard the song I'm talking about.

Furthermore, the movie is not really related to any of those listed incidents, as other users have pointed out. For Christ's, the lyrics of 'Murder by Numbers' are even more closely related to the movie, seeing as though the song seeks to explain a perfect murder. Take a look:

''Once that youve decided on a killing, ''First you make a stone of your heart, ''And if you find hands are still willing, ''Then you can turn a murder into art.

''There really isnt need for bloodshed, ''You just do it with a little more finesse, ''If you can slip a tablet into someones coffee, ''Then it avoids an awful lot of mess.

''Its murder by numbers one two three, ''Its as easy to learn as your abc.

''Now if you have a taste for this experience, ''And youre flushed with your very first success, ''Then you must try a twosome or a threesome, ''And youll find your conscience bothers you much less.

''Because murder is like anything you take to, ''Its a habit-forming need for more and more, ''You can bump off every member of your family, ''An'd anybody else you find a bore.

''Because its murder by numbers one two three, ''Its as easy to learn as your abc.

''Now you can join the ranks of the illustrious, ''In historys great dark hall of fame, ''All our famous killers were industrious, ''At least the ones that we all know by name.

''But you can reach the top of your profession, ''If you become the leader of the land, ''For murder is the sport of the elected, And you dont need to lift a finger of your hand.

(source: http://www.lyricsfreak.com/p/police/murder+by+numbers_20110086.html)

Plot
Needs completely re-done. Any takers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Coolsharkymd (talk • contribs) 05:47, 6 September 2010 (UTC)

title: Talk:Murder by Numbers


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HMS Hector

Eleven ships of the British Royal Navy have borne the name HMS Hector, named after the Trojan hero Hector in the Iliad.

 * The first HMS Hector (1643) was a 22-gun ship sold in 1656.
 * The second HMS Hector (1653) was a 30-gun ship sold in 1657.
 * The third HMS Hector (1656) was a 22-gun ship sunk by the Dutch Navy in 1665.
 * The fourth HMS Hector (1703) was a 44-gun fourth rate launched in 1703 and broken up in 1742.
 * The fifth HMS Hector (1743) was another 44-gun fourth rate sold in 1762.
 * The sixth HMS Hector (1763) was cutter purchased in 1763 and sold in 1773.
 * The seventh HMS Hector (1774) was a 74-gun third rate launched at Deptford in 1774 and converted to a prison ship in 1808.
 * The eighth HMS Hector (1782) was a 74-gun third rate captured from France in April 1782 that foundered in October.
 * The ninth HMS Hector (1862) was the first ship of her class of iron steam propelled battleships and launched in 1862, and scrapped in 1905.
 * The tenth HMS Hector (1915) was a requisitioned merchant ship used as a kite balloon ship in the Dardanelles campaign (1915), and returned to civil service in 1918.
 * The eleventh HMS Hector (F45) was an armed merchant cruiser that served in World War II and was damaged beyond repair by Japanese aircraft in 1942.

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: HMS Hector


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For Love of the Game (film)

For Love of the Game is a 1999 American sports drama film directed by Sam Raimi and written by Dana Stevens, based on Michael Shaara's 1991 novel of the same title. Starring Kevin Costner and Kelly Preston, it follows the perfect game performance of an aging star baseball pitcher as he deals with the pressures of pitching in Yankee Stadium in his final outing by calming himself with memories of a long-term relationship.

The play-by-play of the game is announced by longtime Brooklyn/Los Angeles Dodgers baseball broadcaster Vin Scully, who himself called four perfect games in his career, and Steve Lyons.

The film received mixed reviews from critics and was a box office disappointment, grossing $46.1 million against a $50 million production budget. Costner received a nomination for the Golden Raspberry Award for Worst Actor.

Plot
The Detroit Tigers travel to New York to play a season-ending series against the New York Yankees. At 63–97, the team has long since been eliminated from playoff contention and are playing for nothing but pride against the Yankees, who have a chance to clinch the American League East with a win.

In his Manhattan hotel suite, 40-year-old pitcher Billy Chapel awaits his girlfriend Jane Aubrey, but she doesn't show. Jane is a single mother with a teenage daughter Heather whom Billy got to know. The next morning, Billy is told by Tigers' owner Gary Wheeler that the team has been sold and that the new owners' first move will be to end Billy's 19-year tenure with the Tigers by trading him to the San Francisco Giants. Billy learns from Jane that she is leaving that same day to accept a job offer in London.

Billy is a famous, accomplished pitcher, but has a losing record this season, is near the end of his career, and is recovering from a hand injury. Wheeler hints that Billy should consider retiring rather than join another team. As he goes to Yankee Stadium to make his last start of the year, Billy reflects about Jane, detailing how they met five years prior. These flashbacks are interspersed within the game, along with glimpses of Jane watching the game on a television at the airport.

As the game progresses, Billy dominates the Yankees' batters, often talking to himself on how to pitch each one. While in the dugout resting between innings, Billy reflects how he shut Jane out of his life after he suffered a career-threatening injury in the off-season. The pain of pitching intensifies as the game progresses.

Billy is so caught up in his thoughts that he does not realize he is pitching a perfect game until he looks at the scoreboard in the bottom of the eighth inning. Friend and catcher Gus Sinski confirms that no one has reached base, and that the whole team is rallying behind Billy to do whatever it takes to keep the perfect game bid alive. Billy's shoulder pain has become intense, and after he throws his first two pitches of the inning well out of the strike zone, Tigers manager Frank Perry makes the call to warm up two relief pitchers in the bullpen. The count goes to 3–0 before Billy recalls pitching to his father (now deceased) in the back yard. He rallies and throws a strike, then gets the batter out on the next pitch.

Before the Tigers take the field for the bottom of the ninth inning, Billy has final ruminations about his career and his love for Jane. He autographs a baseball for Wheeler, who has been like a father to him for many years. Along with a signature, Billy inscribes the ball with "Tell them I'm through. For love of the game." Ken Strout comes up representing the last chance for New York. Strout chops up the middle just out of the reach of Chapel, heading towards center field. The Tigers' shortstop dives and throws to first in time to retire Strout, giving Chapel his perfect game.

Billy sits alone in his hotel room as the realization sinks in that everything he has been and done for the past 19 years is over. Despite his amazing accomplishment, Billy weeps not only for the loss of baseball, but for the other love of his life, Jane.

The next morning, Billy goes to the airport to inquire about a flight for London. Jane had missed her flight the night before so she could watch the end of his perfect game. He finds her there waiting for her plane and they embrace and reconcile.

Cast

 * Kevin Costner as Billy Chapel
 * Kelly Preston as Jane Aubrey
 * John C. Reilly as Gus Sinski
 * Jena Malone as Heather
 * Joe Lisi as Pete
 * Brian Cox as Gary Wheeler
 * J. K. Simmons as Frank Perry

In addition, playing themselves, are television sportscasters Vin Scully and Steve Lyons, as well as Yankee's stadium announcer Bob Sheppard.

The pitching coach who prepared Costner for this role was Mike Buddie, a former middle reliever for the Yankees and Milwaukee Brewers. Buddie also had a small speaking role in the film as the character Jack Spellman, the starting pitcher for the Yankees. The Yankees manager is played by Augie Garrido, then head coach of the University of Texas Longhorns. Garrido was previously head baseball coach of California State University Fullerton, which is Costner's alma mater.

Production
Sydney Pollack was originally slated as the director, with Tom Cruise cast in the part of Billy Chapel. Armyan Bernstein, chief of Beacon Pictures, got Kevin Costner interested in the film. The studio wanted to keep the film's budget to $50 million, so Costner helped out by waiving his usual $20 million salary in exchange for a bigger percentage of the film's gross; Costner was also given the generous rights of final cut privilege (normally only given to the producer or director, if anyone) and director approval.

Director Sam Raimi, who had previously only done low-budget films, later explained why he agreed to take on the big budget project: "I was simply moved by the screenplay. It was moving and simple and I love baseball. I love baseball and I thought it hadn't really been put on film and I wanted to see it on the wide screen format. I thought that would be exciting for the audience, like being at a game. I get so excited by some baseball games I wanted to see if I could put some of that into the picture. And I simply liked it and wanted to try something different."

The actor playing Billy Chapel as a child in the opening credits is also Costner; the footage is actually old home movies of Costner and his father. J.K. Simmons later joked about the fact that he was only nine days older than Costner, despite being cast as a 63-year-old.

During post-production, a handful of lines (amounting to roughly 10 seconds of film) were edited or cut in order to prevent the film being given an "R" rating under the Motion Picture Association of America film rating system. Costner objected to the edits but was overruled by Universal Pictures, and his contract specified that he only had final cut privilege so long as the film was rated "PG-13" and had a running time of less than 2 hours, 10 minutes. A week before the film was to hit theatres, he voiced his complaints in a Newsweek interview, a breach of professional etiquette when speaking about a current film that one appears in. Universal Pictures co-chairman Stacey Snider, while agreeing with Costner that the cuts the Motion Picture Association demanded were unjust, stated, "Kevin's not the director and it's not fair for him to hijack a $50-million asset. I realize this is very much about principle for Kevin, but principle doesn’t mean that you never compromise. Our feeling is that we have backed the filmmaker and his name is Sam Raimi, not Kevin Costner." Raimi, while supporting Universal's decision and agreeing that a "PG-13" rating was a necessity, said he sympathized with Costner's feelings and wished the lines could have been kept in without losing the "PG-13" rating. Universal compromised with Costner on the length, allowing a final cut of 2 hours, 17 minutes. Recognizing that he might nonetheless feel betrayed after he had waived his usual fee, Universal offered to pay him the full $20 million fee, but Costner declined.

Critical response
In Roger Ebert's review for the Chicago Sun-Times, he gave the film one and a half stars out of four, calling it "the most lugubrious and soppy love story in many a moon, a step backward for director Sam Raimi after A Simple Plan, and yet another movie in which Kevin Costner plays a character who has all the right window dressing but is neither juicy nor interesting."

Box office
The film opened at No. 2 with a weekend gross of $13,041,685 from 2,829 theaters for a per venue average of $7,023. Ultimately, For Love of the Game grossed only $35,188,640 domestically and an additional $10,924,000 in other territories to a total of $46,112,640 worldwide. Based on an estimated $50 million budget, the film lost money.

title: For Love of the Game (film)


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Talk:Sarcoxie, Missouri

Untitled
I visited Sarcoxie often when I was young, visiting my grandparents who lived there, and are now buried there. I didn't think about it at that time, but have since come to wonder where the name Sarcoxie came from. One person I have talked to guessed that it was of Indian origin, but did not know if this was actually true, or what it might mean. Anyone out there that could enlighten me, and probably numerous others? Drachenfels@omahaweb.net

From Chief Sarcoxie, I guess it's where a tribe used to be located. I only know from the annual carnival, though; it isn't particularly elaborated on. I've lived here for almost 11 years now and barely know anything more than that.

0.96% Native American? Right... At least half of the people here have native american ties, they just refuse to admit it out of "white pride." On topic of Chief Sarcoxie, there isn't a lot to be said. At some point there was a tribe in the area, but anything more specific than that is lost to rumor and speculation. Should the article mention anything about the greenhouses ('Gilbert H Wild and Son' or 'Sarcoxie Nursery')? Or the history of strawberry fields? As far as I know, agriculture/horticulture is Sarcoxie's only claim to fame (age not withstanding). -Heather corruption_of_sanity@yahoo.com

title: Talk:Sarcoxie, Missouri


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Gujo

Gujo is a town located in Sindh, Pakistan. The most important archaeological sites of Amri Culture have been discovered near Gujo.

Demographics
The population of Gujo, according to 2017 census was 1,770.

title: Gujo


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Illinois Route 7

Illinois Route 7 (IL 7, Illinois 7) is a northeast–southwest state route in northeastern Illinois. Currently, IL 7 runs from U.S. Route 6 (US 6) at Rockdale north through Joliet, and Crest Hill into Lockport, and then east to Orland Park before terminating at IL 43 in Worth. IL 7 runs for about 28.06 mi.

Route description
IL 7 follows large portions of the Southwest Highway, one of the original routes from Chicago to Joliet.

IL 7 runs along many major streets and overlaps several other routes. It joins with IL 53 in Crest Hill, US 30 (Plainfield Road) in Crest Hill and with US 6 at 159th Street between Lockport and Orland Park. Between Rockdale and Worth, IL 7 runs via old US 66, 159th Street, 143rd Street, Wolf Road, Southwest Highway, and Larkin Avenue, among many others.

History
SBI Route 7 originally ran from East Moline to Chicago, mostly on current US 6 and IL 7. When US 6 was designated, IL 7 was dropped west of what is now Orland Park. In 1967, it was dropped in the city limits of Chicago (terminating in Oak Lawn, and also extended to IL 53 in Lockport. Two years later, it was extended to Rockdale. In 1970, the eastern end was cut back to its current terminus.

title: Illinois Route 7


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User:MrCalifornia/todo

=Things To Do Before I Die=

Still to do

 * Start a company
 * See the Hughes H-4 Hercules "Spruce Goose" (currently located at the Evergreen Aviation Museum in McMinnville, Oregon)
 * Marry someone hotter than me
 * Be a good father
 * Play golf at St. Andrew's Links
 * See a Giant Panda in its natural habitat
 * Learn Spanish
 * Read
 * The Wealth of Nations by Adam Smith
 * The Origin of Species by Charles Darwin
 * The Prince by Niccolò Machiavelli
 * The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx
 * Biographies:
 * Howard Hughes
 * Benjamin Franklin
 * Watch
 * The Godfather
 * Memorize NATO phonetic alphabet

Completed

 * Become an Eagle Scout

title: User:MrCalifornia/todo


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User talk:Haying882006

The first year the baby Cherokee was 1984. The last year of it was 2001. There were just some small minor modifications. Exapmles are the changes in the number of slots in the grille, but all the parts of the Cherokee would interchange up to 1996 so if you need parts for one 1984-1996 the wiil most of the time interchange. The transmission may not inerchange and the same with motors. There are three diffent five speed trannies, the BA-15, the AX-5, and the T-5. There are three different motors, the AMC 2.5 I-4, the Chevy 2.8 V-6, and the Chrylser 4.0 I-6.

title: User talk:Haying882006


text: File:Eternal Darkness box.jpg

title: File:Eternal Darkness box.jpg


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Talk:Berimbau

Untitled
Please be aware the different people have different names for the same technique (and different techniques for the same name) - just because some technique differs from what you call the technique does not mean it's an error here.

What to do about this I don't know, other than to warn people that names differ. Andrew 22:49, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

Can someone please fix the very first .jpg which is appearing as text rather than a photo, right at beginning of article? I don't know how. Mona-Lynn 04:22, 2 February 2006 (UTC)

Fascinating article! One minor problem: the capoeira (read: toque) is described as an 8-unit structure, but what's written is xx.v.v.v. - which has 9 symbols, not 8. I think that the final "." (dot) should be removed. However, I'd appreciate if someone more familiar with this could confirm and fix this! Dmazzoni 19:03, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

 * Good catch. It's actually the first '.' that was misplaced leaving: "xxv.v.v." The basic rhythm isn't syncopated, every hit coming on the beat. Focomoso 19:53, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

I did a general clean up of the capoeira section and used the "xxv.^" notation throughout. I also took out the references to which games each toque calls for as that seems to be too capoeira specific for an article on an instrument. See Capoeira toques for more on that... Focomoso 21:23, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

Could someone add the pronunciation please? Is it berim-BAU, ber-IM-bau, ber-im-BOW or something else? ELTCambridge 19:01, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

 * I was and am willing to add the phonetic pronunciation if someone wouldn't mind giving me the pronunciation. Zer0Nin3r (talk) 06:31, 6 August 2009 (UTC)

Did somebody want to say that the berimbau is pretty clearly the ancestor of the banjo? 71.254.7.150 (talk) 21:31, 9 March 2008 (UTC)

 * The berimbau is similar to the bobre, bobora, rindirindi of central Africa and mascareigne islanders...none of them are stated here!Domsta333 (talk) 12:26, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

External links modified
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title: Talk:Berimbau


text: User talk:Sgeo/archive

title: User talk:Sgeo/archive


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Patch Adams (film)

Patch Adams is a 1998 American biographical comedy-drama film directed by Tom Shadyac and starring Robin Williams (in the title role), Monica Potter, Philip Seymour Hoffman, Bob Gunton, Daniel London and Peter Coyote. Set in the late 1960s and early 1970s, it is loosely based on the life story of Dr. Hunter "Patch" Adams and the book Gesundheit: Good Health Is a Laughing Matter by Dr. Adams and Maureen Mylander. The film received generally unfavorable reviews from critics, with criticism for the sentimentality and direction, but was a box-office success and grossed $202.3 million against a $50–90 million budget.

Plot
In 1969, Hunter "Patch" Adams, after developing suicidal thoughts, admits himself to a mental institution. There, he finds that using humor, rather than doctor-centered psychotherapy, better helps his fellow patients and provides him with a new purpose in life. Because of this, he wants to become a medical doctor and swiftly leaves the facility. Two years later, he enrolls at the Medical College of Virginia as its oldest first-year student.

Adams questions the school's soulless approach to medical care, particularly why students do not work with patients until their third year, as well as the methods of the school's Dean Walcott, who takes an instant disliking to Patch. Walcott believes that doctors must treat patients his way and not befriend them. Because of this and incidents such as setting up a giant model papier-mâché pair of legs in stirrups during an obstetric conference, he is expelled from the medical school. However, he is reinstated when it becomes apparent to the school that his unorthodox methods often improve his patients' physical and mental health. Adams encourages medical students to work closely with nurses, learn interviewing skills early, and argues that death should be treated with dignity and sometimes even humor.

Patch begins a friendship with fellow student Carin Fisher, and during their third year as medical students, develops his idea for a medical clinic built around his philosophy of treating patients using humor and compassion. With the help of Arthur Mendelson, a wealthy man who was a patient who Patch met while in the mental hospital, he purchases 105 acre in West Virginia to construct the future Gesundheit! Institute. Together with Carin, medical student Truman Schiff, and some old friends, he renovates an old cottage into a clinic. When the clinic opens, they treat patients without medical insurance and perform comedy sketches for them.

Patch's close friendship with Carin soon turns into romance. When Carin reveals to him that she had been molested as a child, Patch comforts her and reassures her that she can overcome her pain by helping others. Encouraged, Carin wants to help a disturbed patient, Lawrence "Larry" Silver. However, Larry murders Carin with a shotgun, then immediately kills himself in a murder-suicide. Patch, guilt-ridden by Carin's death, begins to question the goodness in humanity. Standing on a cliff, he contemplates suicide again and asks God for an explanation. He sees a butterfly, and it reminds him that Carin had always wished that she were a caterpillar that could turn into a butterfly and fly away. The butterfly lands on his medical bag and shirt before flying away. With his spirits revived, Patch decides to dedicate his work to her memory.

Walcott eventually discovers that Patch has been illegally running a clinic and practicing medicine without a license and attempts to expel him again because of this, also complaining that he has made his patients uncomfortable (which is obviously not true). Desperate to prove Walcott wrong, Patch files a grievance with the state medical board on the advice of his former medical school roommate, conservative Mitch Roman. Patch succeeds in convincing the board that he must treat the spirit as well as the body. The board, although still finding some of Adams's methods very unorthodox, allows him to graduate, and he receives a standing ovation from the packed hearing room.

At graduation, Patch receives his Doctor of Medicine and, bowing to the professors and audience, reveals himself to be naked underneath his cap and gown.

Development
Paul Attanasio was brought in as a script doctor to work on the film prior to shooting.

The film was shot in three locations: Mare Island, California (near San Francisco), Asheville (North Carolina), and the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill. A diner was temporarily placed in Point Richmond (a neighborhood in Richmond, California) and served as the University Diner. Several interior classroom scenes were filmed on the campus of UC Berkeley.

The film has several major departures from Adams's real history. One is that the character of Carin is fictional but is analogous to a real-life friend of Adams (a man) who was murdered under similar circumstances. Another difference is the then-47-year-old Robin Williams portraying Adams as enrolling in medical school very late in his life, his older age even being brought up in dialogue. In reality, Adams started medical school immediately and his educational progress was quite normal for a physician: he graduated high school at 18, college at 22, and medical school at 26.

Box office
The film was released on December 25, 1998, in the United States and Canada, and grossed $25.2 million in 2,712 theaters in its opening weekend, ranking #1 at the box office. It achieved the third-highest December opening weekend, behind Titanic and Scream 2. It went on to set a record for having the highest Christmas opening weekend, beating Michael. The film would hold this record until 2000 when Cast Away took it. After its first weekend, it was the #2 film for four weeks. The film grossed US$202.3 million worldwide ($135 million in the United States and Canada, and $67.3 million in other territories).

Critical reception
On the review aggregator Rotten Tomatoes, Patch Adams has an approval score of 21% based on 71 reviews, and an average rating of 4.2/10. The critical consensus reads: "Syrupy performances and directing make this dramedy all too obvious." On Metacritic, the film holds a score of 26 out of 100, based on reviews from 21 critics, indicating "generally unfavorable reviews". Audiences surveyed by CinemaScore gave the film a grade "A" on scale of A+ to F.

Janet Maslin of The New York Times criticized the film's lowbrow comedy, which did not mesh well with its "maudlin streak", and that the sentiment felt "fabricated".

Lisa Schwarzbaum of Entertainment Weekly gave the film an F, deeming it "an offensive and deeply false 'inspirational' drama", lambasting the over-simplified portrayal of the medical establishment of the time.

Robert K. Elder of the Chicago Tribune called Monica Potter "the best thing about the otherwise dopey Patch Adams".

Chicago Sun-Times film critic Roger Ebert gave the film one-and-a-half stars out of four, and wrote, "Patch Adams made me want to spray the screen with Lysol. This movie is shameless. It's not merely a tearjerker. It extracts tears individually by liposuction, without anesthesia." It received "Two Thumbs Down" on his television series Siskel & Ebert, with particular criticism toward the character of Patch, who was viewed as "overbearing", "obnoxious" and "sanctimonious", as well as noting that they would never trust a doctor who acted like Adams does. Co-host Gene Siskel said, "I'd rather turn my head and cough than see any part of Patch Adams again." He later singled it out as the worst film of 1998 (the last film he gave a "Worst of" to before his death in 1999).

Awards
Marc Shaiman's score was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Original Musical or Comedy Score. The film was also nominated for two Golden Globe Awards, for Best Motion Picture – Musical or Comedy and Best Actor – Motion Picture Musical or Comedy (Robin Williams).

Patch Adams's reaction
The real Patch Adams has been openly critical of the film, saying that it sacrificed much of his message to make a film that would sell. He also said that out of all aspects of his life and activism, the film portrayed him merely as a funny doctor. At a Conference on World Affairs, he told film critic Roger Ebert, "I hate that movie."

During a speech in 2010 at the Mayo Clinic, Patch Adams said, "The film promised to build our hospital. None of the profits from the film ever came to us, and so, basically 40 years into this work, we are still trying to build our hospital." Furthermore, Adams stated, "[Robin Williams] made $21 million for four months of pretending to be me, in a very simplistic version, and did not give $10 to my free hospital. Patch Adams, the person, would have, if I had Robin's money, given all $21 million to a free hospital in a country where 80 million cannot get care."

Adams later clarified that he did not hate Williams, and Williams actively supported St. Jude Children's Research Hospital for several years. After Williams's death in 2014, Adams said, "I'm enormously grateful for his wonderful performance of my early life, which has allowed the Gesundheit Institute to continue and expand our work."

Home media
Patch Adams was released on a Collector's Edition DVD on June 22, 1999. On August 16, 2016, the film was released on Blu-ray for the first time.

Soundtrack
The soundtrack for Patch Adams was released on December 22, 1998, on CD and cassette by Universal Records.

Tracks 10 through 18 were written and performed by Marc Shaiman.

title: Patch Adams (film)


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Volksgrenadier

Volksgrenadier, also spelt Volks-Grenadier, was the name given to a type of German Army division formed in the autumn of 1944 after the double loss of Army Group Centre to the Soviets in Operation Bagration and the Fifth Panzer Army to the Western Allies in Normandy. The name itself was intended to build morale, appealing at once to nationalism (Volk) and Germany's older military traditions (Grenadier). Germany formed 78 VGDs during the war. Volksgrenadier divisions were professional military formations with standardized weapons and equipment, unlike the unrelated Volkssturm militia.

History and organization
The strategic emergency and concomitant manpower shortage resulting from the losses in mid-1944 required the creation of infantry divisions that economized on personnel and emphasized defensive strength over offensive strength. The Volksgrenadier divisions met this need by using only six line infantry battalions instead of the normal nine for infantry divisions – already a common reality for many existing divisions. The units also had a higher proportion of submachine guns and light automatic weapons and thus relied more on short-range firepower than in standard German Army infantry units. Automatic weapons like the new Sturmgewehr 44 and anti-tank weaponry like the single shot Panzerfaust were also used by Volksgrenadier units. One battalion of one grenadier regiment and the two companies of the engineer battalion were assigned bicycles for transportation instead of motor vehicles.

They were organized around small cadres of hardened veteran soldiers, noncommissioned officers and officers, and then bulked out with anything the Replacement Army could supply: "jobless" personnel of the shrinking Kriegsmarine and Luftwaffe, recovered wounded soldiers from broken formations returning to duty from hospitals, older men who would have been considered too old or too unfit for the peacetime army, and young men and teenagers from the latest conscription classes were all recruited into the ranks.

Organisation

 * Division headquarters
 * Fusilier company or battalion (bicycle-mounted)
 * Company headquarters
 * Submachine gun platoon
 * Submachine gun platoon
 * Rifle platoon
 * Heavy weapons platoon
 * Infantry howitzer section
 * Signal battalion
 * Battalion headquarters
 * Telephone company
 * Radio company
 * Supply platoon
 * Grenadier regiment
 * Regimental headquarters
 * Regimental headquarters company
 * Infantry battalion
 * Infantry battalion
 * Infantry howitzer company
 * Antitank rocket launcher company
 * Grenadier regiment
 * Grenadier regiment
 * Artillery regiment
 * Regimental headquarters
 * Regimental headquarters battery
 * 75 mm gun battalion
 * 105 mm gun/howitzer battalion
 * 105 mm gun/howitzer battalion
 * 150 mm howitzer battalion
 * Antitank battalion
 * Battalion headquarters
 * Battalion headquarters company
 * Antitank company (motorized)
 * Antitank company (self-propelled)
 * Antiaircraft company (self-propelled)
 * Engineer battalion
 * Battalion headquarters company
 * Engineer company (bicycle-mounted)
 * Engineer company (bicycle-mounted)
 * Supply regiment
 * Supply troops
 * Ordnance company
 * Maintenance platoon
 * Administrative troops
 * Medical troops
 * Veterinary company
 * Field post office

Battles
Volksgrenadier divisions participated in battles in eastern France, the defense of the Siegfried Line, Operation Market Garden, the Battle of the Scheldt, the Battle of the Bulge, the Battle of Otterlo, the Eastern Front, and in the final battles in Germany itself. Some Volksgrenadier divisions performed well, while others were rushed into battle with a minimum of training. Several Volksgrenadier divisions, especially those made up of "jobless" Wehrmacht personnel drawn from the Kriegsmarine and the Luftwaffe, often displayed high motivation and morale which resulted in good cohesion and military effectiveness against the Allied forces in the last eight or so months (about October 1944 through May 1945) of the war in Europe.

title: Volksgrenadier


text:
Ingrid Chavez

Ingrid Julia Chavez (born January 21, 1965) is an American singer-songwriter, poet, and visual artist.

Early life
Chavez was born on January 21, 1965, in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and raised in Marietta, Georgia. She is of Mexican-American descent. At the age of 10, she was sent by her mother to live with relatives in Atlanta, Georgia.

Living in a rundown neighbourhood of Atlanta with Steve Snow, her musician boyfriend at the time, and her newborn, she decided to relocate to Minneapolis - her boyfriend's hometown- after a burglary of their home, to pursue a career in music.

Career
After moving to Minneapolis, in 1986, she auditioned for a number of bands, made the rounds of the Minneapolis music scene, and paid her bills working in a coffee shop. She met Prince in a pub in late 1987, having written to him. Impressed by Chavez's voice and poetry, Prince took Chavez under his wing. She was known as The Spirit Child on his 1988 Lovesexy album. Prince encouraged Chavez to write 21 poems with the promise that they would make a poetry album together. In January 1988, Ingrid and Prince recorded The Poetry Session at Paisley Park Studios. Prince improvised on keyboards while Ingrid recited her poetry. Shortly after this session the project was put on hold.

In 1989, Chavez formed a band called Skyfish with Richard Werbowenko. They created a six-song album released only on cassette. Chavez ran into Prince a year or so later and handed him a copy of the Skyfish demo. Shortly after the exchange, Prince contacted Chavez and wanted her to listen to a track that he had just finished with the poem "Heaven Must Be Near". Prince asked Chavez to finish the poetry album.

It was at this time that Chavez was asked to play the part of Prince's romantic interest in his 1990 film Graffiti Bridge. During the filming Chavez went into the studio with Lenny Kravitz and Andre Betts and co-wrote and recorded what became Madonna's sultry 1990 hit "Justify My Love". She received a large out-of-court settlement for not being credited on the single's release.

In 1992, not long after recording vocals with David Sylvian for the songs "Heartbeat (Tainai Kaiki II) - Returning to the Womb" and "Cloud #9" on Ryuichi Sakamoto's 1991 album Heartbeat, Chavez married Sylvian, and over the years contributed her trademark breathy vocals to a number of her baritone-voiced husband's releases.

During the mid-1990s, Chavez worked with Sylvian and Werbowenko on a second solo album titled Little Girls with 99 Lives. Chavez and Sylvian sent out demos to record labels and close friends, yet could not strike up interest in a deal. The album would have included tracks entitled "Lighthouse", "Snowfall", "Whose Trip Is This?", "Starred and Dreaming", "Kall/Les Fleurs Du Mal", and "Remembering Julia"—the latter four of which can be found as B-sides on the 2-CD UK single of David Sylvian's "I Surrender". These four tracks were later collected and released as an EP titled "Little Girl with 99 Lives" Ep in 2010 through Ingrid's Ten Windows records.

In 1996, Tommy Roberts, a former Minneapolis recording engineer who recorded the Skyfish demo, contacted Chavez and asked her to be in a band with him. She joined the band, called Ova, and recorded a four-song EP. Chavez became pregnant and decided to let go of the project and focus on her family.

Chavez teamed up with Chicago native, Marc Valentin to form the duo Black Eskimo in 2011. The 12-song full-length Deep & Heady CD was released on November 25, 2013, via Bandcamp. Their song "My Sky" won for Song of the Year (Spoken Word Category) at the 14th Annual Independent Music Awards. In celebration of this award the My Sky Poetry and Music Journal was released. This was the first album released in a physical format as a poetry and music journal.

Ingrid's third solo album was due to be released in late 2018. Memories of Flying features collaborations with Charles Webster, Ganga, Mashti, Deep Dive Corp., Marco Valentin, and David Hurn.

Personal life
Chavez has a son, Tinondre, born circa 1984 in Atlanta, Georgia. She also has two daughters, Ameera and Isobel, with English singer and musician David Sylvian, whom she married in 1992 and divorced in 2003; the disintegration of the marriage informed Sylvian's 2003 studio album Blemish. Chavez currently lives in New Hampshire focusing on photography, writing and new recording projects.

Ingrid Chavez
Ingrid Chavez is Chavez's debut solo album, which was released in 1991 on Paisley Park Records. The album was initially intended to set her spoken-word poetry to music supplied by Prince. It was recorded gradually from late 1987 to mid-1991. When Warner Bros. pushed for the album to have sung vocals in place of the spoken word, Prince abandoned the project. Five of the album's tracks ("Elephant Box", "Slappy Dappy", "Jadestone", "Whispering Dandelions" and "Heaven Must Be Near") ended up as spoken word with atmospheric music by Prince under his Paisley Park alias, and the remainder were relatively poppy tracks with sung vocals, co-produced by Ingrid with Prince's studio hands Michael Koppelman and Levi Seacer Jr.

The album spawned three singles, "Elephant Box," "Hippy Blood," and "Heaven Must Be Near." Each were supported with remix packages that featured contributions by Eric Kupper, Junior Vasquez, and Larry 'Tee' Robinson.

Little Girls With 99 Lives
Release date: 2010

Label: Ten Windows Records

Format: Compact Disc, Digital

A Flutter and Some Words
A Flutter and Some Words is Chavez's second album, released on January 25, 2010, on her own label, Ten Window Records. It consists of Chavez's poetry and lyrics set to the instrumentation of Lorenzo Scopelliti (aka Saffron Wood) and Richard Werbowenko (on the title track) and recorded by Alessandro Mazzitelli.

By the Water Reimagined EP
Released: 2010

Label: Ten Windows Records

Format: CD

Memories Of Flying
Release date: May 17, 2019

Singles and Appearances

 * Ganga feat. Ingrid Chavez "Non Toxic"
 * Ganga feat. Ingrid Chavez "Non Toxic Remixed EP"
 * Vanessa Daou "Revolution (Black Eskimo's Memories of Flying Re-imagining)"
 * P.C. Muñoz (feat. Ingrid Chavez) "Disappear"
 * Saffon Wood "Visit Dream (feat. Ingrid Chavez)" [2017]
 * Mashti "Out of Love (feat. Ingrid Chavez)" [2018]
 * "You Gave Me Wings" [2018]
 * "Ride (Balearic Mix by Deep Dive Corp.)" [2019]
 * "All The Love In The World" [2019]
 * "Light Rays" [2019]

title: Ingrid Chavez


text:
Talk:Pro Bowl

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 28 January 2020 and 12 May 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): WyattFranklin.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 07:13, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

External links modified
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I have just modified 9 external links on Pro Bowl. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Corrected formatting/usage for http://scores.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=320129031
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 * Added archive https://archive.is/20130216125003/http://channels.isp.netscape.com/sports/story.jsp?idq=/ff/story/1001/20130128/hi0494.htm to http://channels.isp.netscape.com/sports/story.jsp?idq=%2Fff%2Fstory%2F1001%2F20130128%2Fhi0494.htm
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140409212415/http://nflcommunications.com/2014/04/09/2015-pro-bowl-to-be-played-in-arizona-2016-pro-bowl-slated-for-hawaii/ to http://nflcommunications.com/2014/04/09/2015-pro-bowl-to-be-played-in-arizona-2016-pro-bowl-slated-for-hawaii/
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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 21:53, 22 January 2019 (UTC)
 * The National Football League's Most Valuable Player trophy, engraved with the names of past recipients, at the 2012 Pro Bowl in Honolulu Jan 120129-M-DX861-226.jpg

"Might See TV" listed at Redirects for discussion
An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect Might See TV. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. gnu 57 14:57, 29 August 2019 (UTC)

No PATs or FG attempts?
At Pro Bowl: Unless I'm misunderstanding this, it's not correct. There are (at least) PATs in today's game. —[ Alan M 1 (talk) ]— 01:41, 27 January 2020 (UTC)
 * No rushing punts, PATs or FG attempts

2021 (2020 season) virtual Pro Bowl winner and MVP
These must be shown. NFC and Kyler Murray. They have been referenced as official results by the AP as this was the official pro bowl that year. They were on there for a long time until Sabbatino took it out repeatedly because he did not like it personally.--Mapsfly (talk) 18:18, 17 March 2021 (UTC)

Requested move 4 February 2023

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: not moved. Per consensus, too soon to move. As for splitting, open another discussion, thanks. (closed by non-admin page mover) – robertsky (talk) 16:44, 12 February 2023 (UTC)

Pro Bowl → Pro Bowl Games – Why ... new official name for foreseeable future Vataxevader (talk) 20:42, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Split. The Pro Bowl is a football game; the Pro Bowl Games are a series of competitions tangentially related to football.  The two shouldn't share an article. 162 etc. (talk) 21:36, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Pro Bowl Games is the official name given to the event by the NFL since they have removed the gridiron football aspect of the game, which has been seemingly discontinued for the future to avoid potential injuries to star players. Vataxevader (talk) 22:09, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * My argument is that we should have two articles; one for the events held 1939-2022, and another for the Pro Bowl Games (2023-). 162 etc. (talk) 22:34, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * I understand but I don't think Wikipedia administration would approve of that due to pro bowl designations on individual players' pages Vataxevader (talk) 22:59, 4 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose move. Maybe a split would be the best option, but "Pro Bowl" will likely remain the common name for a while longer. (In addition, this may have been the wrong time for this request, as tomorrow's coverage won't be indicative of year-round coverage.)  O.N.R.  (talk) 00:46, 5 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Oppose as too soon (As O.N.R. basically stated, this RM probably should have been started back November or December when player voting was held, not a day just before the event is about to start). I still prefer to wait until next season. This is the first year under this new format, and so it is still unknown if this will be the common name. It is also unknown if the NFL will still treat both the previous and current formats under a common history and player selection records. As Vataxevader has alluded too, the Pro Bowl/All-star game player selection and designation system remained the same (e.g. will still have everyone who was voted in this year listed on List of Pro Bowl players and its subpages). And so a page split now would be premature since such a newly split page would likely lack any significant new content. Zzyzx11 (talk) 01:54, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

 * Split...two different things.  Invading Invader  (userpage, talk) 07:57, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
 * Realistically, any content page split should involve a separate discussion, under WP:PROSPLIT, than an RM. Like the Cleveland Browns relocation controversy and the issues with the Cleveland Browns history and records versus the Baltimore Ravens history and records, it is not up for us Wikipedia editors alone to decide if the Pro Bowl history, player selection and records; and the Pro Bowl Games history, player selection and records; are "two different things" if the NFL does not do so. I'm curious how the 2023 NFL Record and Fact book is going to list theses records when it gets published this Summer. Zzyzx11 (talk) 16:46, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

title: Talk:Pro Bowl


text:
Ján Kollár

Ján Kollár (Kollár János; 29 July 1793 – 24 January 1852) was a Slovak writer (mainly poet), archaeologist, scientist, Lutheran pastor, politician, and main ideologist of Pan-Slavism.

Life
He studied at the Lutheran Lyceum in Pressburg (Pozsony, Kingdom of Hungary, now Bratislava, Slovakia). In 1817 he enrolled in the University of Jena. His attendance at the Wartburgfest (18 October 1817) has since been credited as being a formative experience with regards to his views on Pan-Slavism.

He spent most of his adult life as a chaplain to the populous but poor Slovak Lutheran community in Pest (Kingdom of Hungary, today part of Budapest, Hungary). From 1849, he was a professor of Slavic archeology at the University of Vienna, and several times he also acted as a counselor to the Austrian government for issues around the Slovaks. He entered the Slovak national movement in its first phase.

His museum (since 1974) in Mošovce was installed in the former granary, which was the only masoned part of Kollár's otherwise wooden birth-house. The rest of the house burned down in a fire on 16 August 1863. In 2009 a replica was rebuilt of the original birth-house, which is now a museum.

Views
He worked out a conception of Slav reciprocity. He admitted 4 standard languages: Russian, Polish, Czechoslovak and Serbo-Croatian.

Works
Besides writing poetry he also wrote technical literature.

 * Slávy Dcera (1824; The daughter of Sláva), collection of two (37 and 39 sonnets) cycles

In this work he worked out the conception of Slavic reciprocity. He expressed his feelings to a woman but this love had transformed to a love to his homeland. The main thematics of this work are: •love •patriotism

It is divided into 5 chapters and it has a foreword.

Předzpěv (Prelude) The author expressed his fears that the Slovaks will disappear from the face of Europe like other Slavic tribes before. He asked the Slovaks to ask for help from the Russian nation.

1. Sála This part contains love sonnets. Kollár glorifies his love Mína, depicting her as an ideal of a Slavic maid, the daughter of goddess Sláva.

2. Labe, Rén, Vltava In these parts, the author takes us to places where Slavic tribes lived before. He is disappointed because these areas belong to foreign countries now.

3. Dunaj The author arrives to Slovakia, disillusioned by the poverty of this area. He is highly disappointed and longs for death.

4. Léthé

5. Acheron Mína becomes a fairy and takes the author to Slavic heaven and hell.

 * O literární vzájemnosti mezi kmeny a nářečími slavskĭmi (Reciprocity Between the Various Tribes and Dialects of the Slavic Nation, edited and translated into English by Alexander Maxwell )

Legacy

 * Guta (Gúta) is a town in southern Slovakia with a Hungarian majority. It was renamed "Kolárovo" in 1948.
 * Streets in Stara Pazova, Kisač, Padina and Belgrade in Serbia are named in his honor.
 * The gymnasium in Bački Petrovac (Serbia) bears his name.

title: Ján Kollár


text: Template:R for convenience

title: Template:R for convenience


text:
User talk:VampWillow/Archive2

Sysop
Congrats - you are now a sysop - I suggest you read Administrators' reading list. Secretlondon 15:09, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Thanks ... read it a couple of weeks ago but will keep an eye on it too ;-) --VampWillow 15:12, 1 Jul 2004 (UTC)

LibDems in NI
I recently rewrote your edit on LD activity in NI. You can find more here. iHoshie 03:16, 4 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Pornocracy
Hey, I might not have nominated you for Adminship had I realised you were a deletionist ;-) Seriously, though, pornocracy was a perfectly valid article, and definitely not a candidate for speedy deletion. Have a look on Google. --    ALargeElk | Talk 14:46, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * As a WP article there was very little in it other than the title and, in checking terms, 'porn-' wasn't in my lists of '-ocracies' or '-archies'. Googling appears to give mostly porn links (surprise!) but otherwise treats it as a modern made-up word. Between the two points (concept, validity), being created by an IP address-only user, and the text "the popes were under the influence of corrupt women" without quoting any source for that assertion it appeared an adequate candidate for speedy. I note it has been recreated with further details, although no sourcing for the content (which, therefore, continues to worry me). --VampWillow 15:30, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Try Googling for pornocracy pope - you'll find plenty of references, including the Encyclopaedia of World History (via Bartleby) and the 1911 Brittanica. I agree, though, that we should all strive to cite sources more. --   ALargeElk | Talk 15:42, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * A little more info and a reference added. I might stick this one on Article of the Week! --   ALargeElk | Talk 16:12, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 * Well, it is certainly being an education! --VampWillow 16:21, 5 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Those articles
Feel free to delete them if you want. I've been putting my fair share of articles up for speedy deleting too - I just decided to err on the side of caution in those cases, particularly considering recent VFD precedents. Ambivalenthysteria 11:03, 7 Jul 2004 (UTC)

Old Street Station talk
discussion thread with 'anon' at that location

Beiderbeke affair
Yes, good point... does it need the reference to cubs at all? Its just a (extreamly) minor plot point. I will try and work out a rewording when I have a chance. 10:26, 11 Aug 2004 (UTC)

European Union Olympic medals count for 2004
Hi there, I wonder would you consider reversing your decision to delete this article. I have substantially rewritten it. A united EU team is not going to happen. I've discussed potential EU co-operation towards the olympics, and kept the table. I believe the table is valid, for us Europeans/EUians to see how the area has fared as a whole. Please comment on my talk page if you still feel the article should be deleted. zoney | talk 00:58, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * um. I haven't made a 'decision' but have indicated (along with others) that I see this article as personal theorising and having no place on WP. "how the area has fared as a whole" is meaningless as the area hasn't competed "as a whole". POV-based rubbish. --[[User:VampWillow|VampWillow]] 08:59, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Well, certainly the original discussion was - and I'm sure my edits can be improved. But as regards keeping a tally - I see this as perfectly useful and interesting information. The area hasn't competed "as a whole", but it's consistuent parts have competed. Hey, part of the UK doesn't even compete with the rest of it (NI with Irl, not GB). So having a Europe-wide tally is interesting. However, thanks for the reply. zoney | talk 11:12, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * er ... all constituent parts of the UK are competing together sfaiaa; we just use the correct international abbreviation (GB not UK) as opposed to what we do online. --[[User:VampWillow|VampWillow]] 12:52, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * How confusing. GB isn't an accurate label in that case - Great Britain is the island beside Ireland, it doesn't include Northern Ireland. UK does. (Hence "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland"). Do EU numberplates for Northern Ireland use GB? It's pretty ludicrous if they do! I had assumed that because of the "Great Britain" label for the Olympics team, Ireland included Northern Ireland, just as in Rugby. zoney | talk 13:02, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Ah. Just did some searching. It seems NI folk can be on either team. This time, I believe most are on the Ireland team. Again - how confusing. zoney | talk 13:05, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

 * Registration Marks (number plates) do indeed use 'GB' for the whole area. btw. I dislike your miss-appropriation of the Irish flag in your sig as, sfaiaa, you are not authorised to respond on behalf of that country. As such please do not use it on this page (at least). --[[User:VampWillow|VampWillow]] 15:27, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Implementing WP:VFD decisions
Hiya.. I noticed there were a bunch of red-links on Votes for deletion/Old (Genesis (web comic), Oceanwalk Mall, Trina S. Newton, Lochap and many others), and checking the Deletion log, I see you deleted them to implement the VFD decision. That's great, but you might want to have a read of Deletion process - when you clear out an article, you need to remove the listing from the VFD page and link to the discussion on Archived delete debates. Thanks! —Stormie 02:25, Aug 18, 2004 (UTC)
 * yeah, by the time I'd finished reading all the discussions (and in two cases the whole article histories too!) and getting through just that day's list I was too shattered to finish doing all the archiving of discussions (did some though). Thanks for the reminder though! --[[User:VampWillow|VampWillow]] 09:17, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

I will not stop re-uploading it. The discussion certainly conveyed anything but a consensus in favor of deleting this image, which is one of perhaps hundreds of other images listed under similar fair use status. 172 13:02, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Kim Phuc Phan Thi
Excuse me, but where is the notice about why this page is locked? Could you at least have the courtesy of putting this up if your going to stop us from editting pages?!? - Ta bu shi da yu 15:27, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

172
172 is a sysop, so protecting the pages has no real effect. I suggest if you have a concern, you join the ongoing discussion on the mail lists. — マイケル   ₪  15:36, Aug 18, 2004 (UTC)

The image is indeed copyrighted, but note the comments regarding fair use status on the VFD page. 172 17:22, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

Why was the image deleted? Putting aside the question of fair use, there was no consensus to delete. I believe that it is considered highly inappropriate behavior to delete without consensus. Dan Gardner 17:32, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)
 * On top of that, this user even considered protecting pages or blocking my account, and improperly used the Vandalism in progress page for a bogus alert. These abuses call into question the fitness of this user for admin responsibilities. 172 19:09, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

VfD discussion of "Phantom mobile device vibration"
On 17 July, you deleted this article with the comment "Deleted after VfD discussion: Neologism". I am trying to close out the discussion and finish the archiving according to our deletion process and need to discuss this one with you. Personally, I agree that the article was a neologism but neither of us voted. Counting only the votes on the page (and discounting the anon vote), it's a tie. When failing to reach a clear consensus, our default is usually to keep the page. Can you please come back to Votes for deletion/Phantom mobile device vibration and justify your decision? Thanks. Rossami 22:40, 18 Aug 2004 (UTC)

WikiCommons
Please be invited to join in at http://commons.wikimedia.org - Andre Engels 13:30, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Hello?
Did you disappear? I saw your name somewhere and realized you hadn't been around. Hopefully you're not gone for long -- I recall enjoying your ideas and approaches to things, even when we didn't agree. Have a nice vacation, Jwrosenzweig 22:51, 10 Sep 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:VampWillow/Archive2


text:
List of Teen Titans episodes

Teen Titans is an American animated television series based on the DC Comics series of the same name by Bob Haney and Bruno Premiani. Developed by Glen Murakami, Sam Register, and David Slack for Cartoon Network and Kids' WB. The series was produced by DC Entertainment and Warner Bros. Animation with Sander Schwartz serving as executive producer and Glen Murakami, Bruce Timm, and Linda M. Steiner signing on as producers. The series follows the adventures of a team of crime-fighting teenaged superheroes, consisting of the leader Robin (Scott Menville), foreign alien princess Starfire (Hynden Walch), the technological genius Cyborg (Khary Payton), the dark sorceress Raven (Tara Strong), and the green shapeshifter Beast Boy (Greg Cipes).

Inspired by the success of the DC Comics based series Justice League, the series was created in a semi-serialized format, utilizing anime styles and mixing it with American style animation. The show was greenlit in September 2002 and began airing on Cartoon Network on July 19, 2003, and on Kids' WB on November 1. The series lasted five seasons, each consisting of 13 episodes, with the 65th and final episode airing on January 16, 2006. The series was concluded with a television movie titled Teen Titans: Trouble in Tokyo on September 15 the same year. Each season has a story arc revolving around a main character: Robin (season one), Terra (season two), Cyborg (season three), Raven (season four), and Beast Boy (season five). The series's alternative network, Kids' WB, aired two seasons of the show. All five seasons of the series were released on DVD, starting with the first season on February 7, 2006, and ending with the fifth season on July 22, 2008. All seasons were also released on Blu-ray Disc, with the first season released on January 23, 2018, and a complete series box-set released on December 3, 2019.

Teen Titans has been critically acclaimed for its strong storylines and for its use of anime influences. The first season garnered strong ratings for Cartoon Network; the network had initially ordered 52 episodes of the series. The series was also nominated for 3 Annie Awards.

Series overview
Each season contains a distinct story arc that is centered on a specific Titan on the team. Starfire is the only individual member who was part of the original roster to not have a season focused on her.

Home media
From September 28, 2004, to September 20, 2005, Warner Brothers released three volumes (the entire first season and the first six-season two episodes) of the series, but cancelled other volumes. From February 7, 2006, to July 22, 2008, Warner released complete season releases on two-disc sets. On October 2, 2018, Warner Bros. Home Entertainment released the complete series box set on the seven-disc set, and on Blu-ray on December 3, 2019.

title: List of Teen Titans episodes


text:
Max Horton

Admiral Sir Max Kennedy Horton, (29 November 1883 – 30 July 1951) was a British submariner during the First World War and commander-in-chief of the Western Approaches in the later half of the Second World War, responsible for British participation in the Battle of the Atlantic.

Early life
Max Horton was born in Anglesey to Robert Joseph Angel Horton and Esther/Hester Maude Goldsmid, of the famous Goldsmid/D'Avigdor Goldsmid Anglo-Jewish family.

Horton joined the Royal Navy officer training ship, HMS Britannia on 15 September 1898. Whilst on HMS Duke of Edinburgh, he was involved in the rescue efforts when SS Delhi ran aground off Cape Spartel and was subsequently awarded the Board of Trade Medal for Saving Life at Sea in silver.

First World War
The outbreak of war saw Lieutenant-Commander Horton in command of one of the first British ocean-going submarines, the 800-ton HMS E9. At dawn on 13 September 1914, he torpedoed the German light cruiser SMS Hela six miles southwest of Heligoland. Hela was hit amidships with the two torpedoes, fired from a range of 600 yards. All but two of her crew were rescued by the SMU U-18 (Germany) and another German ship. Although pursued most of the day by German naval forces, E9 managed to reach Harwich safely. Entering the port, Horton initiated the tradition of British submariners of hoisting the Jolly Roger after a successful patrol.

Three weeks later, Horton sank the German destroyer SMS S116 off the mouth of the river Ems. For sinking the cruiser and the destroyer, Horton was awarded the Distinguished Service Order (DSO).

Sent to the Baltic Sea as part of a British flotilla, Horton sank a number of merchant vessels and, on 2 July 1915, damaged the German armoured cruiser SMS Prinz Adalbert. On 31 December 1914, Horton was promoted to Commander.

In 1917, Horton was awarded the bar to his DSO for long and arduous services in command of overseas submarines. Three years later, as a captain, he was awarded a second bar to his DSO for distinguished service in command of the Baltic submarine flotilla.

Interbellum
During the 1920s, Horton served as captain of HMS Conquest and of the battleship HMS Resolution. Promoted to rear admiral on 17 October 1932, he became Commander of the 2nd Battle Squadron with his flag in the battleship HMS Malaya in December 1933 and Commander of the 1st Cruiser Squadron with his flag in HMS London in 1935. Promoted to vice admiral in 1937, he was given command of the Reserve Fleet that year.

Second World War
With the onset of World War II, Horton was put in command of the Northern Patrol enforcing the distant maritime blockade of Germany in the seas between Orkney and the Faroes. In 1940, he was made Rear Admiral Submarines. In the opinion of Horton's biographer, Rear Admiral William Scott Chalmers, a new regulation which required the post holder to be an officer who had served aboard submarines in the Great War, was forced through for the sole purpose of ensuring that Horton was on a very short list of qualifiers for this post, almost ensuring his rapid transfer to Aberdour, so great was the desire of some within the Admiralty to have Horton revitalize the submarine arm.

Horton moved his headquarters from Aberdour, where he was under the control of the fleet commanders at Scapa Flow, to Northways in north London, officially because he wanted a freer hand in running his command, but purportedly because Northways was located near some of his favourite golf courses. Horton, an avid golfer, is said to have played a round of golf almost every day during the war (since most of the convoy battles took place at night), and was generously handicapped at a "financial 8".

He was responsible for the creation of convoy rescue ships, which accompanied some Atlantic convoys to rescue survivors from ships sunk by enemy action. Rescue ships were typically small freighters with passenger accommodations. Conversion to rescue service involved enlarging galley and food storage areas and providing berthing and sanitary facilities for approximately 150 men. The ships carried scrambling nets along the sides, and boats suitable for open sea work instead of normal lifeboats. Rescue ships normally included a small operating room for an embarked naval doctor and sick bay staff.

Having been promoted to full Admiral on 9 January 1941, Horton was appointed Commander-in-Chief, Western Approaches Command on 17 November 1942. Here he instituted a series of tactical changes in the way the escort ships were to be used. In addition to the existing escort group system, in which groups of ships were assigned to defend the perimeter of convoy boxes, Horton instituted a system of support groups, who would also travel with the convoys, but have much more freedom in pursuing submarines to the death, even if such action necessitated leaving the convoy for longer periods of time than were considered acceptable for escort groups. Horton's support groups proved to be decisive in the crucial spring of 1943, taking the battle to the U-boats and crushing the morale of the U-boat arm with persistent and successful counterattacks. Horton is widely credited, along with his predecessor, Admiral Sir Percy Noble, as being one of the most crucial figures in the Allied victory in the Atlantic. In August 1945, Max Horton, at his own request, was placed on the retired list in order to facilitate the promotion of younger officers. He was made a Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath in June 1945 and was Bath King of Arms from January 1946. He was awarded the Freedom of the City of Liverpool.

Memorials
There is a memorial to him in Liverpool Cathedral.

In 2019, a full size sculpture of Horton was funded by the Rhosneigr community and placed in Rhosneigr, where he was born.

In 2021 a footstone was funded by the Jewish American Society for Historic Preservation in his honour. The footstone reads, "Admiral Sir Max Horton, RN, Honouring British Commonality and Diversity, Commander-in-Chief responsible for British participation in the Battle of the Atlantic WWII. Admiral Horton was of Jewish heritage born in Anglesey. 'Be strong and of good courage' Joshua 1:9, Donated by the Hackney Branch of the Association of Jewish Ex-Servicemen and Women and the Jewish American Society for Historic Preservation." https://www.sdjewishworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Admiral-Horton-with-JASHP-plaque19735.jpg

An anti-submarine trawler, HMS Commander Horton, was sunk on 27 April 1941 by GS U-552.

Honours and awards

 * Knight Grand Cross of the Order of the Bath (14 June 1945, King's Birthday Honours); KCB (2 January 1939, New Year Honours); CB (4 June 1934, Birthday Honours)
 * Distinguished Service Order and two bars (21 October 1914, highly successful attacks on German men-of-war; 2 November 1917, for long and arduous services in command of overseas submarines; 8 March 1920, distinguished service in command of the Baltic submarine flotilla)
 * Mention in Despatches (11 July 1940)
 * The Board of Trade Medal for Saving Life at Sea in silver (1911)
 * Order of St. George, 4th Class (Russia) (LG 15 November 1915)
 * Grand Officer of the Legion of Honour (France)
 * Croix de Guerre with Palmes (France)
 * Order of St. Vladimir 4th Class with swords (Russia)
 * Order of St. Anna, 2nd Class with swords and diamonds (Russia)
 * Order of St. Stanislaus 2nd Class
 * Grand Cross of the Order of Orange-Nassau (Netherlands, 12 May 1942)
 * Chief Commander of Legion of Merit (USA, 28 May 1946)
 * Grand Cross of the Order of St. Olaf (Norway, 13 January 1948; services to Norway)

title: Max Horton


text:
Talk:Francisco Hernández de Córdoba (Yucatán conquistador)

Untitled
Comment by User:Vivero, the main author of the Spanish-language article, in response to my request for his sources; copied from Wikipedia talk:Spanish Translation of the Week -- Jmabel | Talk 22:57, Dec 1, 2004 (UTC)

 * Mainly/only... Bernal, indeed. He is the only eyewitness source, and also the most comprehensive one. In the article I also mention the letter sent by Veracruz founders to Charles V... but only to show that most contemporaries thought that Hernandez expedition started as a slavery raid. This letter is usually edited in the same book with the "Cartas de Relación" ("Report letters" could be a good translation?) of Hernan Cortes to the emperor, and is often confused with the first letter of Cortés, which unfortunately is lost. Talking about the same question, slavery raid yes or not, I also mention 20th century Cortés biographer Salvador de Madariaga, who wrote that it had nothing to do with slave traffic, and was only devoted to exploration and adventure (but Madariaga tends to be a rather "patriotic" biographer, not very neutral in my opinion). I also mention Diego de Landa's "Relación de las Cosas de Yucatán" (he was a franciscan priest, bishop of Yucatan, devoted to the conversion of the mayas), both for adding another testimony favouring the slavery hipothesis, and for doubting about the funny, but maybe uncertain, etimology Yucatan = I don´t understand you. Concerning the etimology of Yucatan, I also mention Fray Toribio de Benavente, "Motolinia" (another franciscan, but devoted to nahuatl speaking indians, not to mayas), maybe the first person that mentioned the funny story of the name of Yucatan. For writing the article I also re-read (but I didn't mention, if I remember well) my favourite teller (more than historian) of the Conquest of Mexico, the american William H. Prescott (a very interesting man. He deserves a longer biography in wikipedia; but, like Madariaga, he was a bit pro-spaniards)and the mexican biographer of Cortés (the modern one, and maybe one of the bests) Juan Miralles. I will add a.s.a.p. to the es: article the info about edition, ISBN, etc. of this sources; some of them are the same that I already added to the Cuauhtémoc biography (in spanish). Thank you for your suggestion, Jmabel, and please forgive me for my maccaronic english and for delaying the info about books and internet webs (it´s almost midnight in Spain, I have to sleep!) --Vivero 22:48, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Translation difficulties
In the section on the origin of the expedition I ran into a few phrases that gave me difficulty in translation. Vivero's prose is generally vivid, which is mostly a good thing, but as a non-native Spanish speaker he occasionally throws me for a loop.

 * Maybe I can help a bit with the spanish side of the problem. I add some comments after each difficulty--Vivero 00:47, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I've consistently translated "ocupar sus personas" and "emplear sus personas" as "occupy themselves" and "employ themselves". I realize this is not literal, but "occupy their persons" and "employ their persons" seem very unnatural in English. Similarly, I've rendered "no habían hecho cosa alguna que de contar fuera" as "they hadn't done a single thing worth the telling". These are both Bernal's phrases, not Vivero's, so I'm a little uncomfortable taking liberties, but I'm more uncomfortable writing painfully stilted English.

 * occupy/employ themselves is perfect. Madariaga associates Bernal's expression ocupar sus personas with boring or desperation for beeing unactive, unemployed.

 * I explain hacendado on its first occurrence as "owner ... of a landed estate", but after that I use hacendado and hacienda without translating. The latter is pretty common in U.S. English. Will these be understood in the UK? (Or will people think I mean a former music venue in Manchester?) Similarly, I've explained, but repeatedly used veedor, and I've explained rather than translate quinto real.

 * hacienda in spanish means property in very general terms (Ministerio de Hacienda = Exchequer or Treasury Ministry)and a landed estate, or even a farm, in a more restricted meaning. Bernal don't use the word hacienda, he speaks about having or not having indians: he and his Castilla del Oro colleagues don't have indians and are waiting for them, and Hernández de Córdoba is a rich man, mainly because he have a town of indians... maybe its fine to leave hacienda in spanish, at least I have no better choice to suggest.

 * Veedor is old legal jargon (But still used in some countries, e.g. Colombia) for an inspector or supervisor, mainly if he or she has to travel somewhere to supervise local behaviours, or has to travel together with explorers. Oveseer or supervisor is perfect, and to leave it in spanish is also, for me, the best choice.

 * quinto real is perfectly explained. Just for your curiosity, there is an article about the quinto real in the es: wikipedia, here, devoted mainly to Perú.

 * When Governor Diego Velázquez is described as a familiar of Bernal Díaz, does this mean a "family member" or merely an acquaintance? The Spanish word is ambiguous.
 * A relative, a family member. The usual expression used in the sources is deudo, and maybe is my fault to have used 'familiar' instead of the more precise 'pariente' or 'emparentado con...'.

 * "...quien les prometió "que nos daría indios, en vacando." I'm not quite sure what to do with en vacando here. I assume it's from vacar. So is it "that he would give us Indians to make up the lack"?
 * Sorry, I don't understand the expresion to make up the lack... En vacando is very difficult even for an spanish speaker, but certainly the origin is the verb vacar: old spanish, maybe used today only in legal jargon, except for the noun and adjetive form vacante=available, unoccupied, vacant, something that remain unfilled. "Que nos daría indios en vacando"=that he would give us indians as soon as some indians were vacant,... available,... unoccupied" Bernal is saying that the last spaniards to arrive to Cuba had to wait for the availability or renewal of indians.

 * "...la justicia y regimiento de la Rica Villa de la Vera Cruz...": I'm not sure how best to translate.
 * Un justicia o alguacil of a town or city is close to the old, british, concept of sheriff: or constable: a minor (less important) justice officer in charge of a town. El regimiento of a town or city is the set of regidores (governors, managers)of a town. It was very usual to say that some letter or some command was made by "la justicia y regimiento" (the justice and executive authorities) or by "el cabildo, justicia y regimiento", or by "el concejo [o consejo], justicia y regimiento"... always meaning roughly the same: "the town justice and government authorities".

 * "... para se servir dellos, enviaron los susodichos ..." It's a quotation, it's archaic Spanish, I'm not sure how to translate, especially susodichos.

 * "para se servir de ellos" means simply "to obtain service from them"; it's a rather euphemistic way to say that the intention was to force them to work, to slave them. "susodichos" means "above-mentioned", and it refers to Hernández, and his financial associates, Ochoa and Morante. In the spanish version I wrote the name of this persons between brackets [], to unveil who were the missing "above-mentioned". Another solution is to substitute "susodichos" with the names.

Any help will be appreciated. And, please, someone jump in on some of the rest of this, so far this translation is not much of a collaboration. -- Jmabel | Talk 03:13, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)

last remaining translation difficulties
I'm pretty much finished with this. Thank you, Vivero for your excellent answers above. A (very) few difficulties remain; I bet you can help with most of these, too.

Hi, Jmabel I'm Vivero. I'ts a pleasure for me to try to help. After each difficulty (but think that most items are difficult also for me!):

 * ...acaso demasiado para ser del todo cierta — se cita a menudo. I certainly get the general point, but I don't precisely understand. If you can say this in English, great, otherwise even a Spanish paraphrase would probably do it for me.
 * ...whose surprising and amusing story -maybe too surprising and amusing to be a true story- is frequently quoted... What I wanted to say is that one must be skeptic when hearing stories that look too surprising and amusing... maybe the stories were devised with that goal, rather than truth. "se cita a menudo" is aproximately "is frequently mentioned, or quoted,.."

 * ...aclarando que al suyo le decían "tlati" Is this "clarifying that they called their own tlati", or do I misunderstand.
 * Yes, you are right, but I don´t know if it is understandable in English (maybe neither in Spanish!). The spaniards were talking about "their" bread, saying that it was made with yuca "nuestro pan está hecho de yuca", and the mayas were speaking about "their" bread, saying that it was called "tlati" ("aclarando que al suyo [a su pan] le llamaban tlati" --> clarifying that the name of mayan bread was "tlati"). Imagine that conversation between people speaking mutually unknown languages, speaking about many things, without understanding each other. In some moment of the conversation, the maya speaker repeats "yuca-tlati" several times, just reminding the talk about bread, and the spaniards, out of context, think that he is trying to inform about the name of his country... suddenly, a mixed caribbean-maya word is born! ... (of course, spanish bread was made of wheat... except in America, where there still was no wheat and yuca was a nice alternative)

 * Would escopetas be correctly translated as "shotguns", or did it have a different meaning at this point in history? Elsewhere there is a reference to arcabuces, which translates unproblematically as "arquebusses". Were these escopetas something different?
 * Yes, "escopetas" is "shotguns" according to my dictionary. Bernal Díaz del Castillo uses exactly the word "escopetas" ("y llevamos quince ballestas y diez escopetas..."), a bit surprising for me, for I used to think that "escopeta" was a modern word for a modern gun... Sorry, I have no idea about old fire arms, so I don`t know if "arcabuces" is precise. Anyway, Bernal wrote "escopetas", and for the soldiers using the weapon, "escopeteros"

 * Similarly bateles: should this be translated as "dinghies", or is that anachronistic?
 * Un batel is simply a small boat, according to the DRAE dictionary (by the way: the word comes from old english bat through french batel). A dinghy, according to my Merriam-Webster, is just the same, so it´s ok... Is tender another choice? Maybe tender is an older word than dinghy.
 * Come to think of it, "launches" is a great word to use here, since it refers to what the boats were used for, and elides any question of how they were constructed. -- Jmabel | Talk 22:03, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)

 * ...desplazarse asidos a las bordas de las lanchas... Again, I get the approximate notion. I follow all of these words (except maybe asidos), but several of them (desplazarse, lanchas) are ambiguous enough that I can picture more than one actual scenario. Again, a paraphrase would probably help.
 * To save their lives, they had to quickly move (desplazarse) to the ship, almost swimming, taken root or taken hold (asidos) to the boards or edges of the boats, and therefore more vulnerable to the arrows and stones throwed by the indians. I remember that I used the word "lanchas" for formal reasons, to avoid the tiring repetition of batel and bote, but maybe is not the best word: just the same problem that you have with dinghy.

 * I have some other slight difficulties or doubts with the English text, but I can't explain them now. Maybe next Saturday I will ask you about, Thank you --Vivero 01:07, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

-- Jmabel | Talk 09:20, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

Just a few more

 * Sorry for the delay. I try to answer after each question Vivero 23:48, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)

I just noticed three I missed last time:

 * prestancia y superioridad: superioridad is "superiority" (but of whom and to whom? Within one's own society or of the discoverer to the discovered? This seems very POV). I'm guessing prestancia here means "readiness" or "intent", but I wanted to check.
 * I have to confess that my intention when writing this was humour-oriented. I wanted to make a (very subtle) joke. A discoverer is supposed to arrive to the shore with a retinue, to plant large flags or banners in the beach, and to read a prayer and an speech to the astonished discovereds. The discovereds are always portrayed as humble, passive, indians astonished with the elegance, distinction (prestancia) and superiority (superioridad) of the discoverers. Nobody considers Robinson Crusoe as the discoverer of his island, you have to be Cook, Columbus or Balboa (prestancia y superioridad). not a shipwrecked sailor... Anyway, it was only an attempt to make a very subtle joke. What I wanted to say is that only captains of organized armies that dominate or master the discovered population are considered discoverers by History. Otherwise, the antillian indians that Columbus brought to Europe in 1942 could be considered the discoverers of Eurasia

 * tratado: Is this like "chapter" in this context? I'd never heard of a book being divided into tratados.
 * Yes: a "tratado" is a treatise, an agreement, but also (and in this context) any non-fiction writing focused on a certain topic, i.e., any essay (just like the latin word tractatus, see for instance ). The History of the New Spain Indians of Fray Toribio de Benavente, Motolinia  is organized in three tratados', each containing ten to twenty chapters. Motolinia did not give a name to the tratados, they are just tratado primero, tratado segundo and tratado tercero'', neither are they devoted to very differentiated topics, so I think a good translation could be "chapter 8 of the third book" or "chapter 8 of the third part"

 * ...para apuntar. "to aim"? Not sure I get this, never really seen someone use the other hand to aim while throwing, but I presume that's what you are saying, right? -- Jmabel | Talk 22:19, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes, apuntar in this context is to prepare yoursef before shooting, in order to achieve a good shot, that will reach accurately the target. In English that's to aim, Isn't it?

 * Some other remarks:

 * Le dió a la vez la inmortalidad y la muerte... in spanish, it is just a (not very clever) pun, a play on words: mortalidad - muerte, a short way to say that Hernandez would be unknown by History if he had not organized the trip in which he died. In English the origins of immortality and of death are so different that maybe sounds a lot more as purple prose.
 * It's a little purple, but not excessively so. I cut a few passages that I thought were over the top in this respect. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:31, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)

 * ''Sartas de cuentas verdes y demás baratijas preparadas al efecto" is still in spanish in the text. It means, approximately, "strings of green beads [cuentas] and other cheap goods [baratijas=triffle, cheap imitation jewellery] suited for this purpose". Since Columbus' first trip, every explorer carried cheap imitation jewellery for interchange with indians or as gifts to compliment them...

 * "The other was the curiosity and valor of the cleric González shoud be ...the curiosity and courage...'' shouldn't it? ... valor is still untranslated
 * "valor" is a perfectly good English word (in British English it would be "valour", but I'm a Yank), same meaning, I see no reason to change it. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:31, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)

 * "algunos marineros levantiscos is translated as Some Levantine sailors. The word levantisco have two meanings: "Levantino", from levante''=the east, which refers to the people of the eastern coast of Spain (Valencia, Castellón, Alicante,..) and the most common meaning of "inclined to muttiny, disobedient"; it comes from "levantar", to rise, in the sense of revolt. The text in Spanish uses the latter. So, the right translation is not "Some Levantine sailors..." but something like disobedient, revolted,...
 * Aha! I was unfamiliar with that meaning, I'll change it. -- Jmabel | Talk 21:31, Dec 26, 2004 (UTC)

Muskets, etc
Joe, thanks for the corrections re name abbreviations. As for the identification of the Spaniards' firearm as a musket, I was relying (as with much of the rest of the updates) on J.M. Cohen's 1963 (abridged) translation of Bernal Diaz's The Conquest of New Spain, published in Penguin Classics edition. In this, he translates:
 * We took fifteen crossbows and ten muskets, and started to follow the road along which the Cacique was going with his great company of Indians. (p.19)

and:
 * But, thanks be to God, when they felt the sharp edge of our swords and the effect of our crossbows and muskets, they quickly took to their heels, leaving fifteen dead on the field. (also p.19)

Cohen's translation of this term might not necessarily be specific or technically apt, and possibly he only uses it as a generic term for an early firearm. They might actually have been technically arquebuses, the time period seems to be about right, but our wikipedia musket article also tells us that muskets were around from possibly the 14thC. as well. I'm not really au fait with the military technology of the period, would have to do some further research to find out.--cjllw | TALK  06:50, 7 December 2005 (UTC)
 * They wouldn't have been arquebuses: he would have used the then-common Spanish word arquebustos. At that time, escopetas may well have meant muskets. I only know its modern meaning. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:13, 8 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I've now asked about escopetas at that date on es:Discusión:Escopeta. Hopefully a native speaker with expertise will respond. -- Jmabel | Talk 23:26, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

As an addendum, Cohen also translates Veedor as "Inspector". Also, in the passage re the battle of Champoton, Cohen has Bernal relate:
 * ''During the fighting, the Indians shouted to one another "Al calachuni, calachuni", which means in their language, "Attack and kill the captain."

I amended the description of this accordingly.--cjllw | TALK  08:14, 7 December 2005 (UTC)

 * On this one, I would say that Cohen is playing a bit fast and loose with his source. After all, it's not like the Spanish even necessarily knew exactly what they heard, let alone that Bernal Díaz wrote it down correctly 50 years later. And then he extrapolates from that. Functionally, I guess that is what it meant, but there is nothing in Bernal Díaz to bear that out. "Calachuni" seems generally equivalent to cacique; the al is Spanish; there is nothing more here than "to the captain/chief". - Jmabel | Talk 23:13, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

 * ok thanks, hopefully our compañeros on es.wiki can help out. I agree that Bernal is not the sort of chap who would be attentively noting down their utterances in the heat of the battle- I'm sure by their subsequent actions the intentions of the attackers would have been unequivocal, whatever it was that they said. Perhaps it can be tweaked to indicate that this is only BD's later interpretation.--cjllw | TALK  01:09, 9 December 2005 (UTC)
 * I'll take a shot - Jmabel | Talk 06:23, 10 December 2005 (UTC)

 * thanks Joe, that latest amendment is a neat solution.--cjllw | TALK  08:45, 11 December 2005 (UTC)

Date of Dead
at first I read: "Francisco Hernández de Córdoba (died 1524) was a Spanish conquistador, known to history..." a while later I read: "Hernández did not live to see the continuation of his work; he died in 1517, the year of his expedition,..." - maybe it is my blame and some other Hernandez is meant but I don't think so -- Hartmann Schedel  cheers  18:59, 21 September 2010 (UTC)
 * You are right, it should be c.1517 not 1524. This was recently changed by an anon edit, have changed it back. Possibly they were confusing with the other Francisco Hernandez de Cordoba, founder of León, Nicaragua & later executed by Pedrarias in 1526. While I don't think that the Yucatan Hernandez de Cordoba's date of death is exactly known, it's presumed he died from his wounds not very long after the expedition returned to Cuba in 1517. --cjllw  ʘ  TALK 07:56, 23 September 2010 (UTC)
 * thank you for the fast response -- Hartmann Schedel  cheers  11:14, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

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Requested move 29 September 2021

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: no consensus. There seems to be no consensus if an article on Francisco Hernández de Córdoba is justified. I think this should either be taken to AfD, which is a better place to evaluate WP:Oneevent, or a separate discussion should be had on splitting this article. (non-admin closure) VR talk 01:45, 27 October 2021 (UTC)

Francisco Hernández de Córdoba (Yucatán conquistador) → Expedition of Francisco Hernández de Córdoba (1517) – The article is about the expedition. There aren't any further biographical details about Francisco Hernández de Córdoba. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:31, 29 September 2021 (UTC) — Relisting. Havelock Jones (talk) 10:39, 13 October 2021 (UTC)
 * Note that a disambiguator (1517) or (Yucatán) is needed. Marcocapelle (talk) 18:35, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

 * I would support a move but also note that it's not a very good article. Much of it is unsourced or uses Bernal Diaz (essentially a primary source). Other parts lack an encyclopedic tone or wander off topic. There's already a better article on the same topic here: Spanish conquest of Yucatán. Whatever you end up calling it, it needs a major overhaul. Glendoremus (talk) 23:51, 29 September 2021 (UTC)

 * Oppose. There needs to be a page on the individual. He is linked by name in other pages. That said, the article certainly needs a rewrite. Or rather, a separate page on the expedition should be created, with all its details transferred there, and just leave here the basic biographical facts. Walrasiad (talk) 01:48, 30 September 2021 (UTC)

 * I'm okay with suggestion by User:Walrasiad. Move most of this to an improved article on the expedition and leave behind a basic biography. Glendoremus (talk) 15:59, 13 October 2021 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

New page for expedition
I'll be making a new page for the expedition to Yucatan details (but use references I already have as there's loads of better quality ones than Bernal Diaz). When done, I'll notify here / move expedition details from this page to the new page, so we can have this article be just a biography :) – Asdfjrjjj (talk) 09:36, 15 September 2023 (UTC)

 * Page at Hernández de Córdoba expedition. Too spent to clean up this article atm but hopefully someone takes a razor to it, leaving just bio as per Sep 2021 discussion, would be grand. – Asdfjrjjj (talk) 01:56, 21 September 2023 (UTC)