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User talk:Postdlf/Archive4

Wet and Wild: Slippery When Wet (2000)
I don't think this is an appropriate article for Wikipedia. This has nothing to do with the Playboy subject matter, but rather because you've attempted to create an article by giving a play-by-play of one video out of a series of, for all relevant purposes, substantially identical videos. I don't even know if a valid article could be written on the Wet & Wild series as a whole, let alone one volume of it. Furthermore, your writing is a bit far from NPOV (i.e., "she looks beautiful"). I'm going to list the article for deletion, and I hope you take my comments into consideration for future contributions. Postdlf 23:27, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

It's enough on List of Playboy videos to list that a series has run from 1989 to the present, or whatever; there is no justification for listing each entry separately. Postdlf 23:52, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Well I can't say that I've seen all the Playboy videos but I have the impression that there has been a significant change in Playboy's philosophy in the production of their videos from the early 90's to the present. In the early 90's the "Sexy Lingerie" and "Wet and Wild" series were produced and very popular. The production of these videos has completely stopped and we now have videos such as "Sorority Strip Party", "Sexy House Keepers", and "America's Sexiest Bartenders". It seems to me that Playboy is now more concerned with making a profit by producing these sleazy videos than producing tasteful, artistic, and erotic depictions of women. I hoped that in writing a detailed description of each of the Playboy videos one could get an impression of the change that has taken place in Playboy's view of women. I have taken your points into consideration and have removed the NPOV remarks from my article. I hope that other people will be able to contribute their ideas and improve the video articles. Jester2001 01:05, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * That's actually an interesting perspective, though I'd be careful of veering into a personal essay rather than objective reporting in your attempts to describe it. Wouldn't it be enough to describe the general characteristics of the videos and how those changed over time rather than scene by scene descriptions of each one?  If you think the standards have changed, obviously the earlier ones must have shared qualities that differ from the shared qualities of the later ones.  I appreciate your receptiveness, btw; I know it's difficult to keep from taking it personally when someone criticizes your contributions.  Postdlf 02:19, 15 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Deletion of Template:Stop
While this content may well have been patent nonsense, it was TfD'd before you deleted it. That confers a sort of immediate, superficial status. You have bypassed the process, and now nobody else can form an opinion -- either to contest or to support your action. I don't want to be confrontational with you, but let's not set bad precedent. — Xiong 熊 talk 17:12, 2005 Apr 16 (UTC)

Category:Professors
Please note that I have nominated Category:Professors and all its professorial subcategories for deletion. As you are the initiator of the category, you might want to comment. / uppland 19:28, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Discussion about Nanjing article.
You said  ''I'm unaware of any policy that would support the creation of an alternate, image-free version of an article, any more than it would be alright to create an alternate version without "objectionable" or "graphic" descriptions. Unless you can point me to such a policy, I am going to list this for deletion.''

While I don't know of any official policy, It occured to me that some people may want to learn about the Nanjing Massacre, but may not want to pictures of a dead woman with a sword in her vagina. I've also seen it on other pages (e.g. Abu Ghraib, blow job, &c). If there's a better way to do this, I'm all ears. --ZekeMacNeil 15:43, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * The only way to do it is to discuss it on the article talk page and see if you can get a consensus for the removal of the image. You're unlikely to get that simply on the basis that an image is graphic, however—the criteria is whether the image is integral to the subject matter.  A subsequent failure to get consensus does not grant you the right to create a fork of the article to satisfy your own individual preferences.  The fact that the images are on there means that consensus has decided that they are relevant to the content.  I've seen this many times regarding textual content of articles over which there is a dispute, but this is the first instance I've seen of someone creating a fork because of images.
 * BTW, how on earth is an image of oral sex comparable to a depiction of graphic violence and torture? Beyond both being pictures that have people in them, I can't think of anything that would make them remotely similar.  Some people may not like the idea of oral sex for personal or religious reasons, but I hope you feel more than mere distaste when you view an image of torture.  Postdlf 15:54, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Copyright Diagnosis Murder
May I ask what part of the article is a copyright vio? Its a serries. How do you expect one to talk about serries? Why not delete entier Star Trek. Geez. Cat chi? 23:35, 18 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Are you kidding me? "What part"?  The whole damn thing, from the two URLs listed in the copyvio notice.  Your original post (the bottom three paragraphs in the final version) is a character-for-character copy and paste from the TV Tome page for the show.  The intro paragraph you later added is a character-for-character copy and paste from the second and third sentences of the first paragraph from the PAX TV page for the show.  Who the hell do you think you're fooling?  Postdlf 01:08, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes and the autor of the article granted me permission by email. I forgot to place links. Geez. Cat chi? 08:55, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * Ok I am returning the article to original form. As I had permission to use the material, I was naive of me to declare ownership though. Cat chi? 09:00, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I reverted your removal because no one has checked out your claim yet—simply asserting you had permission is not good enough. I quite frankly don't trust you, because you first asserted that you had written it, and now you're asserting that you had permission, but on the article talk page, you stated that you posted it prior to receiving any permission.  I also can't tell from your copies from supposed e-mails who this author is, or which source she wrote for—there were two URLs that you copied from, not just one.  You've really handled this poorly and dishonestly from start to finish.  Postdlf 17:02, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * There is an email. Mail it if you wish. I do not care if you trust or not mail the person. Read the actual material in the talk page. Mail the person and declare it copy vio only if she suggests it is, I already asked. Cat chi? 00:33, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * What part of there were two URLs that you copied from do you not understand? Even if the text you posted on the talk page represents permission from one source, that still doesn't handle the other.  I have e-mailed the TV Tome author to verify that claim of permission, but that still leaves the problem that you have copied and pasted material from the PAX website.  Postdlf 18:24, 23 Apr 2005 (UTC)

User:200.46.215.104
You reverted, without explanation, edits by this anon to Japanese strategic planning for mainland Asia (1905-1940).

Please note that this user, while having poor English, has been a major contributor to this article, and Japanese nationalism. He has also contributed a large bibliography on Japan and East Asia. In short, please treat as a valued expert. I have cleaned up his contributions many times.

I am generally concerned about the lack of tolerance for contributions in poor English. I have had to fight to salvage this material from VfD, and from others (see what I have just written on User talk:Chanting Fox).

Charles Matthews 06:01, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * That's great that you have the patience to work through all that, but from my perspective, I came across incoherence from an IP that had only been active one day. I don't leave posted what looks like garbage with hopes that someone else will clean it up, or presume that the editor has actually made valid contributions under another IP.  Are you even sure that all the edits under 200.46.215.*** were made by the same individual?  The demonstrated linguistic proficiency varies quite a bit.  Postdlf 06:19, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Yes, it's going to be the same guy. He introduced himself on User talk:Asbestos. Your attitude seems flawed. Please don't delete just on the grounds you don't understand. Charles Matthews 06:52, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC) I've made a referenence list of relevant articles - there are now 15-20, and more every day. The guy is prolific. Please consult User:Charles Matthews/Imperial Japan to get a better idea of what is going on in this area, if this comes up again. I am gradually cleaning it all up. Charles Matthews 08:11, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The Samurai Saga now continues
You've hit the proverbial nail smack dab on its proverbial head at this point. I've tried extending an olive branch to the User:SuperDude115 alias, but I'm not sure it will do any good. I'm waiting to hear from User:Burgundavia as to how to proceed with an RfA. I agree a time-out is necessary which is why I've listed the "SamuraiClinton" alias on the vandalism in progress page. Thanks for jumping into this fray. Personally, I want to go back to some real editing! I'm losing my taste for trollslaying. :^) - Lucky 6.9 19:32, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Template for copyvio
Hi, I noticed that you used the template I made to alert users of copyright violations. I just wanted to let you know I changed the template in several ways. Now you only have to enter two parameters, pagetitle and source and you do not have to use any brackets for linking, it is done in the template. Also, I added a sentence that directs users to wikipedia's copyright and fair use policies if they are unsure of them. You are welcome to make any changes to the template if you think it can be improved or if you see a mistake. Take care. — oo64eva (AJ) (U @ 20:01, Apr 19, 2005 (UTC)

Reply about last warning
I have no intent for vandalism. My modern contributions are thought of as good additions to Wikipedia. Also, I don't cosider all (just some) VfD articles to be vandalism. Can you explain what contributions are considered vandalism, if you do, I might have better contrast between bogus and acceptable contributions in the future. --SuperDude 21:25, 19 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I really don't care what you claim your intent to be. My warning on your talk page clearly gave an example of your vandalism.  I am watching your edits.  Postdlf 02:43, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Xiong
As one of the people who's tried to encourage this user to act more appropriately, I thought I'd let you know I have opened an RFC on him at Requests for comment/Xiong. In short, his actions have continued to be disruptive, especially his recent nomination of Templates for deletion for deletion (see Votes for deletion/Templates for deletion.

If you'll consider either certifying or supporting the summary, that would be appreciated. -- Netoholic @ 21:42, 2005 Apr 19 (UTC)
 * Other than my one attempt to spank his indefensible position on the TfD template, I can't really say I've tried to resolve anything with him. But I have observed enough of his disruption and defiance to support your summary.  Postdlf 02:58, 20 Apr 2005 (UTC)

The bizarre
There is room in life and on the Wiki for more light hearted articles - and the bizarre is itself an interesting subject. It may not be rocket science but it is part of life....Brookie 07:24, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * But it's not an article—it's a collection of stories. Stories which I happen to be amused by as well, but Wikipedia isn't the place for this kind of thing.  Postdlf 07:25, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 * I decided to be nice and list it on VfD instead of speedy deleting it again. I think the outcome is rather inevitable.  Postdlf 07:40, 21 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks
Thanks for commenting on my talk page. I now know the correct syntax for vfd. I am wondering if you can help me know what to do if I just want to bring attention to a page. Suppose i want to get a second opinion on something without creating a vfd page. What can I do? I've found that discussion pages don't really work because no one has the page watched. CoolGuy 08:35, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Photography
Hi Postdlf! I saw your little comment on your FPC, and I wanted to say that I genuinely thought it was a good photo. But as I said a little more spectacular subject would be needed for an FP (IMO). You asked for something to take a photo of, can I first ask you want sort of camera you use? --Fir0002 03:40, 27 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Xiong
Hi there! Because the RFC about Xiong seemed to deal mainly on his disagreements with Netoholic, I thought it best to start a new RFC to see if people have comments on Xiong's behavior that do not relate to Netoholic. Please give your thoughts and/or opinion on that at Requests for comment/Xiong. Radiant_* 08:27, Apr 27, 2005 (UTC)

Pandeism vfd
Postdlf, please consider framing the basis for your vote on Votes for deletion/Pandeism as "non-notable." I believe I have adduced sufficient referential evidence to show that this article was not "original research," but simply a report of a philosophy which, although real, lacks enough adherents/proponents to be notable enough for inclusion. I apologize for having overestimated the importance of this topic. It was, after all, one of my first posts, when I was new to Wikipedia and not yet familiar with the criteria for notability. -- 8^D BD2412gab 05:29, 2005 Apr 29 (UTC)
 * On second though, since its very easy for those not acquainted with religous details to confuse "theism" with "deism" - as demonstrated by the fact that most of the non-wiki-mirror references on the web do use pandeism to mean pantheism - a redirect would be useful. -- 8^D BD2412gab 06:45, 2005 Apr 29 (UTC)
 * Forget the above. I have found conclusive evidence of the use of the term "Pandeism" dating back to 1833, being used by Godfrey Higgins, a follower of John Toland, the creator of pantheism.. The term is used in a book written by Higgins called the Anacalypsis. -- 8^D BD2412gab 10:27, 2005 Apr 29 (UTC)

Burningdown
You win. I've deleted the article.

Fisher's equation
I live in Columbus, OH. Maynard Ave, maybe you have heard of it?

 * Near campus, isn't it? Postdlf 01:45, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Oh yeah, five streets north of Lane. Close to the Blue Danube restaurant. I am about to go to Char Bar, at the south end of the Short North. Peace out!
 * That's why I know it... The Dube was always a favorite.  Postdlf 01:50, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Re/ arevich
The block placed on my account was placed properly and in accordance with Wikipedia policy. However, the block seems to have been put in effect for too long a period of time.

As a regular Wikipedia contributor who contributes to several categories, a block of 30 days or "indefinite" seems to be excessive.

Please note that I am not questioning the reasons for the block or the necessity for the block. I am only requesting that the length of time be reduced. You will also note that I have been further blocked today. I am not sure what happened to cause that auto-block as I have not made any attempt to edit today. It is possible that I clicked on a red link or edit page accidentally however.

Note also that the only page that I am accused of vandalizing is a page of my own creation, Aldeism. Although I continue to believe that Wikipedia would benefit from a NPOV article on Aldeism, it is clear to me now that it would not be appropriate for me to create such an article.

arevich 21:30, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Please note as well that I have spent the last few days sorting through the various policies on blocking, unblocking, banning and vandalism. The best suggestion for dealing with blocking issues seems to be to e-mail the sysop who blocked the account directly to attempt to resolve the issue. However, it is also suggested that a blocked user should not attempt to edit anything while blocked. Since I could not locate your e-mail address on Wikipedia, but would like to resolve this issue amicably with you directly if possible, I would hope that this message would not be considered as an 'edit' for the purposes of block enforcement.

Please reply to me on my talk page. I will log in later today to read your response.
 * I blocked you for a month because it was such a flagrant violation of policy. This isn't about you "vandalizing...a page of [your] own creation"—part of the problem is that you have continued to see the Aldeism article as "yours".  The Wikipedia community, following proper policy and procedure, decided that the article would not exist here.  You knew this.  The Wikipedia community then decided not to consider your request to undelete it, thus reaffirming the original VfD decision.  You knew this as well, and you knew that VfU was the only proper way to get a VfD'd article undeleted.  Yet you reposted it.  You say this "is clear to [you] now" that you shouldn't recreate it, but "[a]s a regular Wikipedia contributor who contributes to several categories", and as you have already gone through the proper channels of trying to get the VfD reversed, you can make no believable claim that it wasn't clear to you before.  This is especially true considering that you continued to pop up under various anonymous IPs to repost it even after you knew that was why your account was blocked.
 * I do believe that you will comply with Wikipedia policies when you return, and I recognize that you have made valid contributions, which is why I have not made the ban indefinite. But I believe that this will only hit home to you if you see what the cost of noncompliance is, and I believe a month is appropriate for such a willful and knowing violation.  Postdlf 21:41, 1 May 2005 (UTC)

Refering to ships
Whether or not to leave in the article has been a subject of some discussion. The bottom line is that neither way is right or wrong. I wouldn't have made the edit if I hadn't already been mucking around putting the name in italics. Jinian 10:25, 2 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I just read through that thread (rather than prepping for a final I have tomorrow evening...I have my prorities in line), and I'm inclined to think it's a good idea overall to leave "the" in because of concerns of readability and avoiding ambiguous sentences. One of these days I'll go back through Samuel Francis du Pont and see where the article really needs to be added back in for clarity.  What did you think of the article, btw?  Naval history isn't my bailiwick—I only came to write about du Pont after expanding Dupont Circle—but I was pretty proud of the outcome and I've been considering nominating it for featured article after I get around to tracking down the sources I used and adding the references, and some minor copyediting.  Postdlf 09:05, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
 * The article is well done. Good work on it. Let me know when you feel it's ready and I would be happy to vote for it as featured. /// As was probably obvious from the discussion and my edit, I prefer to leave out the "the" when refering to a ship. It grates on my ears to hear it or to read it. A great deal of restraint on my part is the only thing from stopping me from changing it each and every time I see it. Typically I only make the change if I'm editing something else in any case. Jinian 17:26, 9 May 2005 (UTC)

Court case infobox (again)
Would you have any objection to my dropping blank court case infoboxes into (Supreme Court case) pages that have none, in the hopes that they'll be filled over time? -- BD 24 12 thimk 08:28, 2005 May 3 (UTC)
 * Depends on what you mean by "blank"... Not entirely blank, I hope.  ; )  But leaving some spaces empty shouldn't be a problem as long as you've filled in the right case name, date, and hopefully the holding and justices.  If you could keep a list of the incomplete ones you create, maybe on a temp page in your user space, I could come around later and fill them in for you.  Postdlf 08:42, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I can do case name, year, U.S. reports citation, holding, and justices who wrote opinions for any of them. I can list all the justices for cases decided since Breyer's appointment. -- BD 24 12 thimk 08:53, 2005 May 3 (UTC)
 * That's a good start. If you want to do any pre-1994 decisions, the SCOTUS site has a complete table of who served when, which is how I've figured out the membership of the court for older opinions that didn't list the whole bench.  Postdlf 09:03, 3 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I use this one:, but it's still a pain. -- BD 24 12 thim</b><b style="color:DarkGreen;">k</b> 09:14, 2005 May 3 (UTC)

User 24.30.73.63
I saw that yesterday you left a note on his talk page saying that if that IP vandalized again, you would block it. Just to let you know, today that IP vandalized Jim L. Mora and Randy Moss. FreplySpang (talk) 01:07, 5 May 2005 (UTC)

Template:US fed civ pro
I'm trying to put together something that looks nice, but I have noooo clue how these things work - could you polish this up a bit? I was also thinking, we should have one for the various types/levels of federal courts. What do you think? Cheers! -- BD 24 12 thi <b style="color:red;">m</b> k 07:00, 2005 May 7 (UTC)

Accent Network Operating System Kernel
I flagged this for speedy because it is an orphan that, in my opinion, is most unlikely to be used as an accidental link or to be typed in as a user search item. So, whilst I agree that it is harmless, I believe it to be redundant. Under what circumstances would you expect it to be used? --Theo (Talk) 09:52, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Can't say. But harmless things I'm willing to keep as redirects because, well, they're harmless.  I'm not sure how exactly a redirect can be "redundant", but being unlikely to be used still doesn't make it a speedy deletion candidate in my view.  Please use Redirects for deletion instead.  Postdlf 09:57, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

User:152.163.100.137
Could you please block User:152.163.100.137 for repeated vandalism of VFD? He has been warned multiple times on his talk page. Firebug 22:20, 8 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Just did. Thanks!  Postdlf 22:20, 8 May 2005 (UTC)

Proposed RfC on User:Daniel C. Boyer
Hi Postdlf, myself and Classicjupiter2 are about to post an RfC over Daniel C. Boyer, and I wonder if you would lend your support to our effort. I've written up a preliminary walkthrough of the events of the past couple of weeks, but I am not going to add it to the RfC page until we have all the facts straightened out and every piece of evidence uncovered. If you could help me out by adding anything you can to the draft version it would help me out a lot. plattopustalk 17:45, May 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your contribution. If you have anything more to add, it'll probably be a little less than a week before the RfC goes ahead. [[Image:Flag_of_Australia.svg|30px]] plattopustalk 19:44, May 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * No prob...I'm finishing up some more additions. We really need to make sure this is complete and well documented.  We're not the only three who have had problems with him, and this needs to be shown more than it currently is.  Postdlf 19:46, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Well if you know of anyone who has had problems with him, let them know about it. I am only aware of Wyss so far, but surely there have been more. Let everyone know they're invited to contribute to the evidence. [[Image:Flag_of_Australia.svg|30px]] plattopustalk 19:53, May 11, 2005 (UTC)
 * Some good DCB evidence here on user:Wyss's talk page, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Wyss#A_Surrealist_Protests_.28Thread_closed.29

Classicjupiter2 00:09, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

I really haven't had any dealings with him, I'd rather not get involved. RickK 23:58, May 11, 2005 (UTC)

God Bless
God bless us, Postdlf, we're done with law school. -- BD 24 12 thi <b style="color:red;">m</b> k 22:37, 2005 May 11 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite out of the woods yet. Two finals to go.  One of them's a pass/fail though.  So God bless us anyway.  ; )  Postdlf 22:38, 11 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Good luck with what's left - we'll be lawyers soon enough. Maybe we should start an org for wiki-lawyers. -- BD 24 12 thi <b style="color:red;">m</b> k 03:30, 2005 May 13 (UTC)

HAGDatabase
I hope i've set this out like i'm supposed to, i'm pretty new.. I pretty much want to make my own Wikipedia so i can be Admin and make pages un-editable, etc. I don't think i did this very correctly as my page was very quickly deleted. Is it possible you tell me how to become an admin of one (if i can) as i really like the idea of Wikipedia. I saw this on another website which is a help website for OHRRPGCE (it is at http://gilgamesh.dnsalias.org:8080/wiki/ohrrpgce/).. Anyway hope i did this all right, i hate to make a bother. - GradyJ
 * Please read the links I left on your own talk page. Those explain the policies we follow, what standards we have for articles, etc.  Above all, take a look around Wikipedia to see what is already here (hit the "random page" link several times, for example) so you can get a sense of what an article consists of.  People do write articles about video games (see Final Fantasy for a good example), but a forum in which people can share game cheats is not an article.  I deleted what you posted because, as I said, this is not a free web hosting service—you don't get to "make your own Wikipedia", but you can post articles about notable subjects, which will then be editable by everyone.  People are made admins after they've shown that they can do this properly for quite a while.  So please read through all the links I left on your talk page, and best wishes!  Postdlf 09:24, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Ah okay, cool, i'll give it a shot that way then.. Would it be alright if i made an article with video game information and etc (i see what you meant now with Final Fantasy) Not one that's like a forum one i wrote and then people might contribute.. Something like that =)
 * Do you actually want to contribute to Wikipedia though? I looked over what you wrote again, and it seems like you want your own website that runs like Wikipedia, right?  That's why you gave me the link—as an example.  I don't know how those are set up.  If that is what you are interested in, Help desk might be a good place to ask that question.
 * However, if you do want to contribute to Wikipedia, then it might be better to try adding to articles other people have written first. If there is something you would like to write about that you know we don't have an article on, then try to collect everything you know about it and then write that into at least one paragraph.  If it's a video game, for example, who designed and released it, when, what platforms they did it for, and what the plot of the game is would constitute a good start.  Let me know and I'll be happy to take a look at your edits and hopefully help you along.  Postdlf 09:51, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Yep thanks it is quite interesting to do this. I might learn to edit articles and make my own before i try setting up one as my own website.. I will eventually though, if i ever figure out how to set it up :P Well i finnaly did it this isn't to self-promote or anything but it's at Micro Maniacs.. Tell me if there is anything wrong with it please :)
 * Not a bad start. One thing to avoid though is writing in the first person (don't use "I" or refer to yourself at all) and don't express any personal feelings about the subject (such as your like, dislike, etc).  WP:NPOV has our general policy on this.  Otherwise, with some cleanup, it's actually a very good first article edit.  The next thing to focus on is organizing the information, and you've done pretty well at this so far.  Postdlf 10:38, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Ah okay i'll fix that up, by the way that's not a edit i made the whole thing :P It took a fair hour :l

Boyer RFC
I just got your message on my talk page but see you've already added the RFC.

A number of things come to mind.

 * 1) The real problem that Boyer poses for Wikipedia is that he adds misleading content that is very labor intensive to correct.  While I do not remember any instance of Boyer adding purportedly factual material that was provably false, there are many instances where he has distorted the facts through omission of relevant detail or falsifying context or relative importance.  During the deletion discussion regarding Daniel C. Boyer, for example, I found out that the movie he purportedly directed had a running time of three minutes and was, in fact, a student project.  He didn't mention this, instead permitting the reader to infer from context that it was a commercial, feature-length film.  He listed a book he published of his as one of his achievements, but I found out that it was not really published as the term is usually understood, having had a net press run of about 20 copies.  In both cases I spent a couple of hours researching to get to the bottom of the matter, having called his "publisher" on the phone in the case of the book.  This behavior is not limited to his self-promotion, because he pulls the same stunt in surrealism-related articles, adding references to books, magazines, artists, and authors that are fringe -- in the context of a subject where there are many widely distributed books, magazine, artists and authors from which to choose for reference material.
 * 2) What are you hoping to accomplish?  Boyer has a three-year history of questionable contributions and pugnacious talk-page behavior.  This has been pointed out to him many times and he clearly has no interest in changing his behavior.  Yet, none of his recent behavior is egregious enough to warrant a slap from the AC.
 * 3) No discussion of Boyer would be complete without some detailed consideration of what has happened to Surrealism and related pages.  While in recent months this article has finally improved due to the concerted effort of User:Stirling Newberry and several other serious editors, Boyer was able to sidetrack any serious work on it for two years, and continues to add novel content  based on two fringe POVs: 1) that the consensus viewpoint of art historians regarding surrealism is wrong, chiefly because surealism is somehow not an artistic style, school, or movement; 2) that surrealism is as alive today as it was in the 1950s.
 * 4) Mention should be made of his creation and impassioned defense against deletion of Duchy of Pinica, Imperial Post, and Empire of Upper and Lower, fictional entities all, and familiar only to a handful of participants in some personal milieux.  If you're trying to make a point about his consumption of the "administrative resource," so to speak, those are valuable data points.
 * 5) Finally, the deletion discussion you link to for the VFD and subsequent VFU are only the most recent.  The article was VFD'd and VFU'd once before, and the discussion is presently archived at User_talk:Daniel_C._Boyer/undelete and User_talk:Daniel_C._Boyer/Archive_5, and User_talk:Daniel_C._Boyer/Archive_Summary.  The pages ended up there when his article page was moved to his user page at the conclusion of a still-earlier VFD, which concluded with no clear consensus.  There has also been mailing list discussion and over a dozen related discussions and archive pages, many of which are now deleted.

The Uninvited Co., Inc. 15:50, 12 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I think the VfD I link to includes some description of those earlier events. Re: the broader surrealism POV edits, I don't have any personal experience with that other than what I've seen of other complaints, but it would be great if you could supplement the RFC with those issues somehow.  As for what I'm trying to accomplish, I'm not entirely sure.  I think just getting everything together in one place will make it easier to deal with him in the future.  I'm also hoping that perhaps if it's all laid out and there is a community consensus behind a particular interpretation of events, that it may even have some constructive effect on him.  Precatory, sure, but worth a shot.  Postdlf 17:50, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

 * I would just like to ask for cites about which "books, magazines, artists, and authors... are fringe," taking into account that surrealism has always been a radical and countercultural movement. When you're talking about the mainstream sources are you talking about books about surrealism written by non-surrealists?  What, if any, primary sources would you consider "not fringe"?  --Daniel C. Boyer 17:58, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Dan, we've been around this many times. At this juncture in our history together, I am unwilling to spend half a day to come up with a list of references you've used and then to write a rebuttal to the authority of each one.

 * Regarding your other question, the idea that one must self-identify as a surrealist in order to write about surrealism is ad hominem and patently false, just as it would be for any other subject.

 * The Uninvited Co., Inc. 23:01, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

 * What you are really saying, when your say "I am unwilling to spend half a day to come up with a list and references you've used and then to write a rebuttal to the authority of each one" is that you expect what you say to stand without argument. What you are saying is tantamount to my winning by default.  You don't feel like countering what I am saying, you can't, what's the difference?

 * I did not say "that one must self-identify as a surrealist in order to write about surrealism". My point is that systematic exclusion of the writings of actual surrealists (even, shudder, surrealists from 1966 until the present day!) when you or someone is learning about surrealism will prevent a very skewed view of the movement.  By all means, for example, present what Mary Ann Caws said, but for the sake of NPOV you should acknowledge that her work has been bitterly criticsed by surrealists.  In calling the writings "fringe" you are missing the point that surrealism is a "fringe" movement.  Always has been.  --Daniel C. Boyer 00:33, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

 * The Empire of Upper and Lower never was an article. So much for UninvitedCompany's credibility.  --Daniel C. Boyer 00:39, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

 * If you'd examine the evidence, you'd see that the present period may not be the period of the greatest activity in surrealism, but that period has certainly been since the 1950s. Surrealism's greatest period of expansion was probably in the late 1960s.  --Daniel C. Boyer 00:39, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Could you please do this elsewhere? I'm not involved in this particular dispute.  Postdlf 00:41, 13 May 2005 (UTC)

By the way, this image needs some source information for the retouched version. -- Solipsist 21:06, 12 May 2005 (UTC)

Panaphobia
Hi. I noticed that you deleted this article. Was it VFDed or was it a Speedy? I just ask becuase I have heard the term before and can find *some* Google hits so I don't think it is nonsense. Cheers TigerShark 21:54, 14 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Speedied because its content itself said that it didn't actually exist, but perhaps I construed that too far. I'll err on the side of caution and restore it because you've raised a question.  Postdlf 22:02, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

Interwiki links for user pages
Although this really concerns your simple user page, I just wanted you to know that you don't need to make external links to your user pages across different wikis. It's the exact same thing as an interwiki link, but with a colon at the front to make it visible. Look at the text here or at my user page there for an example. --Ricky81682 (talk) 22:56, May 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * P.S. I hope you don't mind, but I simplified the links on your user page and on your talk page on Simple. --Ricky81682 (talk) 22:59, May 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * No, I don't mind at all. Thanks!  Postdlf 02:26, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism
What does one do when someone pretends to be a sysop and destroys your page?

Ariel Sokolovsky
you said: "It is considered vandalism. You know that your eponymous article was deleted because you participated in the deletion discussion at Wikipedia:Votes for deletion/Ariel Sokolovsky. Postdlf 02:53, 13 May 2005 (UTC)" Shalom Postdlf! I'm a new user of WikiPedia.I don't yet know all the rules.I restored Ariel Sokolovsky page because I saw no reason for it to be deleted as I explained in its deletion page.

Ariel Sokolovsky

RfC
Thanks for letting me know about Boyer's RfC. Since the Userspace policy proposal has so many objections, I'm not sure it's very useful to focus so much on his problematic user page. Also, it might be helpful to separate out what he has done more recently from the historical stuff, since at first glance it looked like a lot of the problems occurred last year, even though there is more recent evidence of the problem continuing. I think that if this is going to go to arbitration (which, if he refuses to see there is a problem in self-promotion, it probably should) then it may help the ArbCom to see a timeline of his behavior. Angela. 13:23, May 16, 2005 (UTC)

Abuse of RfC
Your listing the issue of Allison Boyer on RfC is a clear-cut example of combining two issues on RfC, which is an abuse of RfC. Please either remove references to Allison Boyer from RfC, start a new RfC on the issue, or remove the RfC on me. I hope we can reach an understanding on this point without my having to go to RfC on you. --Daniel C. Boyer 19:40, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * If you want to get narky, the issue is your conduct on Wikipedia in general. There are many facets to that issue, one of which if your promotion, mostly of yourself, but also of people and products you are connected with. You are taking the RfC guidelines too literally. [[Image:Flag_of_Australia.svg|30px]] plattopustalk 19:52, May 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm going to "get narky". [Y]our conduct on Wikipedia in general is not one issue, by any definition, as it is so global in scope there wouldn't be room for another issue.  In any case, if the issue is "self-promotion" (and that is one issue; I don't dispute that), clearly Allison Boyer is not myself.  The RfC should either be revised and started again from scratch, mention of Allison Boyer should be removed from the RfC, or a separate RfC should be started on the issue.  What Postdlf is attempting to do is abusing RfC by bringing up multiple issues seriatim, ignoring my responses on the old issues (as well as advising you to do so) and bringing up new issues instead.  --Daniel C. Boyer 20:00, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * (Hope you don't mind, I fixed my spelling mistake)
 * You're bringing up insignificant issues of semantics and completely disregarding the general idea of our problems with you. In fact, your continued arguing of these issues is making it worse for you, since that's exactly one of the issues we brought up in RfC. Now, regarding what you actually said... sure, Allison is not you specifically, but you are connected to her in a way that makes it impossible for you to neutrally contribute any content to the Wikipedia wherein she is the subject. Instead of taking a hard-line, literal interpretation of the word "self" (after all, your works aren't you specifically, either) how about you instead think of the spirit of our issues and attempt to address them? You're not doing yourself any favours by arguing about trivial things. [[Image:Flag_of_Australia.svg|30px]] plattopustalk 20:15, May 16, 2005 (UTC)
 * I explained why references to Allison Boyer were included on the RFC talk page and I stand by that explanation. The reference to the Maori Wikipedia article was also included as cumulative evidence that the IP in question was used by you.  Once again, you're free to disagree and see if anyone else endorses your view.  I didn't contribute to the RFC to endlessly debate with you.  I present my view, you present yours, and then the rest of the community decides if they want to endorse one of those views.  Postdlf 02:29, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * You did not explain the references at all, so there is nothing to stand by. I am adding to "Candidates for RfC".  --Daniel C. Boyer 20:03, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * This is, yet again, a really frivolous attempt on your part at distraction and/or retaliation. Furthermore, though I have already explained why those references to Allison Boyer are included and why they don't constitute a separate issue (whether or not that explanation was to your satisfaction), I also think you're misinterpreting RFC policy on a "single dispute."  In the statement you rely on—"This must involve the same dispute or concern the same disputed type(s) of activity, not different ones."—I think that "this", in context, refers to what two more users are joining in certifying to.  What it forbids is certifying to a dispute that you have not been involved with on the basis of another dispute with that same user.  At a minimum, the statement "disputed type(s) of activity" indicates that the boundaries of disputes are not to be drawn as narrowly as you insist.  Good luck finding a second person to certify to your RFC.  Postdlf 20:48, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Daniel, if we shared your interpretation of the sentence you cite from the RfC guidelines, we would have to list about 400 seperate RfC discussions on you. It does not say that you may only use RfC for one single issue against a person, it says that the people who bring that RfC against someone must be talking about the same dispute. The Allison Boyer issue falls within the scope of our RfC and is one part of a group of dozens of issues that are shared by myself, Postdlf and Classicjupiter2. [[Image:Flag_of_Australia.svg|30px]] plattopustalk 21:17, May 17, 2005 (UTC)
 * You admit that the RfC covers "dozens of issues". You have characterised the "dispute" (which I've offered to resolve with you, but which you have as yet had no interest in doing) focussing on your counter-RfC on me so broadly that there is literally nothing it couldn't encompass.  This is clearly well beyond what could possibly be a single dispute, and if the dispute is over "self-promotion," Allison Boyer is not myself, and therefore isn't even colourably within the scope of the RfC.  If you had or would revise the RfC to reflect whatever incredibly broad dispute you're talking about, I could accept that Allison Boyer lies within its ambit ("promotion of things and people he is connected to in some way", though that would have to be carefully defined as connexion is a somewhat slippery concept), but as it's been done it's focussed on multiple, incredibly-broadly-defined "disputes," some of which are dead as I do not dispute them.  --Daniel C. Boyer 19:57, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

Roe v. Wade
Is the initial characterisation too broad? It didn't state that any restriction on abortion was impermissable, did it? --Daniel C. Boyer 20:10, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Ick, you're right. That is an incorrect generalization in the intro paragraph.  Roe established a trimester system: no restrictions in the first trimester, some restrictions permissible in the second, any permissible up to a total ban in the third.  I think that's the gist...it's been awhile since I've read the court decision and I haven't ever really read the article.  Postdlf 02:38, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * This is what I was getting at, if too vaguely. --Daniel C. Boyer 20:03, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * If you're interested in the current state of the law, see Planned Parenthood v. Casey, which replaced the Roe trimester formula with one centered on the viability of the fetus. Pre-viability, a state can only regulate abortion in ways that do not pose an "undue burden" on a woman's ability to secure an abortion.  Post-viability, states may ban abortion entirely.  None of this of course determines what states must restrict.  Postdlf 21:31, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Thank you; this is what I was looking for. --Daniel C. Boyer 19:58, 18 May 2005 (UTC)

colloquialism
Where is this forbidden? WB2 05:42, 17 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Try looking at it first from a different perspective—where in other articles do you see colloquialisms or slang being used? That should indicate something.  Postdlf 18:53, 17 May 2005 (UTC)

A completely random request
Howdy. There's a bit of a debate over at this VfD discussion about fair use and lyrics. I'm making a bit of an assumption here in that, as a law student, you've already studied this aspect of copyright law, but I figured it was worth a shot. If you could shed some light on this discussion (or just respond privately on my talk page to satisfy my curiosity, if you don't want to get involved) I'd really appreciate it. Cheers, android↔talk 22:35, May 18, 2005 (UTC)

Dear Postdlf, I need your help
Postdlf, I sent the same message to Plattopus regarding help that I need in fixing my talk page that was vandalized by Daniel C. Boyer's friend, Bleedy, who is a surrealist, who's real name is Eric W. Bragg from the website, http://www.surrealcoconut.com. I will show you the same exact message that I left on Plattopus's talk page, so you know the information on what is going on. I really don't know how to fix this, after Bleedy removed sections of the discussion on my talk page.Classicjupiter2 22:03, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Your claim that Bleedy is Eric W. Bragg is a bald assertion for which you have offered (nor, I suspect, can you offer) any support whatsoever. --Daniel C. Boyer 22:44, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Plattopus, I need your help. This is Classicjupiter2. There is a friend of Daniel C. Boyer who goes by the user name, Bleedy, his real name is Eric W.Bragg and he is vandalizing my talk page, by removing sections of discussion from the sections of my talk page. You can see the edit removals he made here, http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Classicjupiter2&action=history and here, (cur) (last) 21:18, 19 May 2005 Bleedy. I don't know how to approach placing a large portion of the material he took out, back in. This guy is a surrealist friend of Boyer's, who Boyer is now trying to get an article on here, from the Requested Articles page, Boyer is using this guy Bleedy's website, http://www.surrealcoconut.com as a reference to a requested article submission made by Boyer, see Requested Articles, go to Surrealism, here, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requested_articles/Surrealism#Surrealism 19:43, 15 May 2005 (hist) (diff) Wikipedia:Requested articles/Surrealism (Austin Surrealist Group) Anyway, I don't know how to place all the subsections of dialogue that Bleedy removed back in, without ruining the formatting of the whole page. My talk page is a reference that is listed on the RfC page on Boyer, and now that Boyer's friend Bleedy vandalized my talk page, by removing sections, I don't know what to do. I need your help.Classicjupiter2 21:52, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Retrieved from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Plattopus" Classicjupiter2 22:03, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Would you please provide a cite that I am trying to get an article on "Bleedy"? I find this highly doubtful.  And what on earth does any of this have to do with the Austin Surrealist Group?  --Daniel C. Boyer 22:44, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

Graduation present
Congratulations on your graduation from law school. :-) -- BD2412 talk 14:52, 2005 Jun 1 (UTC)

Rolando Viera
Sorry for the long delay in getting back to you; it's Little League season and I work with a local league.

Rolando Viera was apparently released just before the 2003 season. I found this on (a fantasy league stats site):

Red Sox released LHP Rolando Viera. Viera, a Cuban defector who was chosen in the seventh round of the 2001 draft, had been pretty disappointing since joining the Red Sox. He had a 4.89 ERA as a reliever in Double-A last season. Source: Boston Herald Apr. 2 - 1:54 pm et

The Sons of Sam Horn Web site (Red Sox fan talk) still has an entry of Viera in the Arizona Fall League in 2002; he finished that fall with an ERA of 7.20. Apparently he did no better in spring '03 and the Sox felt he was expendable.

I attended quite a few Bears games in the last two years but only saw Viera pitch in four games. (I also saw him pitch in one game for Trenton in 2002.) Last time I saw him pitch was 22-May-2004 at Somerset; he won that one, allowing 2 runs in 5+ innings as the Bears beat the Patriots 6-2.

I never knew (or realized) his story. Thanks for sharing it on Wikipedia. CharlieZeb 01:00, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Your edit on Star Wars IV
Hi, I concurred with your change delinking "voice of Darth Vader" on SW IV: A New Hope. I did the same on '...Jedi'. As well as changing the cast listing Performing Yoda which also doesn't link to anything. Some anonymous user keeps changing them back. In the long run it isn't that important to me but it does seem to impede the useful functions that Wikipedia is so good at. I also apologise for bothering you with this. I am relatively new to Wikip and am not sure to who should be made aware of this. I thought that maybe you might know who the main person/people are who oversee the SW pages and could alert them to this situation. Thanks for your time. MarnetteD | Talk 19:41, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)

At The Hip
I was just editing the New Pages list. I didn't know. Sorry.

Thanks for your support
Thank you for voting on my RFA. Have some pie! I was pleasantly surprised by the sheer number of supporters (including several people that usually disagree with my opinion). I shall do my best with the proverbial mop. Yours, Radiant_ >|< 08:18, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Undelete Quirkyalone
(15:40, 9 Jun 2005 Postdlf deleted "Quirkyalone" (recreation of previously deleted dicdef) ) Quirkyalone should not have been speedly deleted for the reasons given at Talk:Quirkyalone. I already recreated and expanded the article. I understand you can restore the page history? Thanks Petersam 11:03, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Fair enough. I've tried several times to undelete the history, however, and keep on getting an erorr—I'll have to try again later when the system's running a little more smoothly.  Postdlf 20:55, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Thank you
Thanks for the revert to the Cyprus dispute page. I'm not trying not to break 3RR rules here, but Argy keeps vandalizing things. Best Wishes. --Scimitar 22:35, 13 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Wikiversity
Would you please reconsider your speedy delete vote on this page. I've checked the deleted version and what's currently there is not a recreation of the deleted content. The deleted content was: "Wikiversity is a proposed project to provide something which is neither Wikipedia, nor is it a conventional university. What exactly it is going to be is still under discussion.

Here (http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikiversity) is its homepage. " - Mgm|(talk) 09:19, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)

Anon unblocked
Hi Postdif. I've been talking to 200.122.157.17 via email (he mailed the foundation information address). It seems his edits to the Star Wars articles were intended to make the articles match the film credits. And it also seems that he had not figured out how talk pages work - hence the lack of communication. I have explained talk pages, and suggested he discuss his edits with you and others. So I've unblocked to give him the chance to do this. Hopefully, with a little guidance, he will communicate and edit usefully. Regards -- sannse (talk) 21:37, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

radio stations categories
Hi - A while ago (quite a while ago) you replaced all the references in subcats of Category:Radio stations in the United States to the template {{Radio stations by state}} without preserving the descriptive text it generated (i.e. with a simple category reference). I thought I'd re-add references to it, but thought I'd ask first if there's some particular reason you did this. Just curious. Thanks. -- Rick Block (talk) 23:19, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
 * It was to avoid the automatic categorization under the template that placed the radio subcats directly in the state subcats; I instead put them in state media subcategories. Looking back at it, I don't know why I didn't just edit the template to make that change...probably just because I hadn't worked with templates directly and may not have understood how they worked.  Postdlf 23:28, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Now that I've updated the template and applied it to a couple categories, I remember why I dislike template-applied categories—there is some glitch with updates, so that if the template is edited so as to change or remove the included categories, the update doesn't seem to show up on the articles or categories to which the template is applied until those articles or categories are themselves edited and saved again. Postdlf 23:55, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Yeah. There's the weirdness where the template shows up in the category as well. When I did this I didn't know about subst.  It's a trivial amount of text to yank and put (although annoyingly repetitive) - how about if we just add the text inline in each cat? -- Rick Block (talk) 00:15, Jun 15, 2005 (UTC)

Electoral roll
Postdlf, the creator of the original nonsense at the Electoral roll page (which was deleted, per vfd) continues to disrupt the page, repeatedly blanking the redirect and/or restoring the deleted content. Can you protect the page and block the problem child? Cheers. -- BD2412 talk 23:27, 2005 Jun 14 (UTC)
 * Oops - someone's already done it - thanks anyway. -- BD2412 talk 23:30, 2005 Jun 14 (UTC)
 * Actually, better this way - now the nonsense history is gone as well. -- BD2412 talk 23:44, 2005 Jun 14 (UTC)

Eggshell... whichever
Eh, let Google decide. Whichever gets the most hits wins. -- BD2412 talk 00:15, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC) Based on this, I say just make it "Eggshell skull" and have everything else redirect to it. I'll fix all double redirects. -- BD2412 talk 00:20, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)
 * Here's what I get:
 * 5,110 for "Eggshell skull".
 * 413 for "Egg shell skull".
 * 360 for "Eggshell plaintiff".
 * 53 for "Egg shell plaintiff".
 * 35 for "Eggshell skull doctrine".
 * 1 for "Egg shell doctrine".
 * 215 for "Eggshell skull rule".
 * 164 for "Egg shell skull rule".
 * 55 for "Egg shell rule".
 * 383 for "thin skull rule".
 * 49 for "thin skull doctrine".
 * That's fine, particularly since Black's agrees. I always thought I had a lousy torts professor...  Postdlf 00:21, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * LOL - should've come to FIU - I've meaning to write an article on my torts prof, the esteemed (and hilarious) Andrew McClurg. -- BD2412 talk 00:25, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)
 * Eggshell skull is done. Hope everything else is going well for you. -- BD2412 talk 00:48, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)

Colin Roberts
I just noticed the deletion of Colin roberts whose text was (I quote from your deletion log):  Born in 1985, Colin Roberts is the editor of popular music website, Drowned in Sound. Although being consistent with the site's info, it looks like vanity, or at least an editor of a not notorious enough site (ranks around 40 000, with recent maximum of 25 000, on Alexa), and I was considering sending it to VfD, that's why I had it bookmarked. Still, I don't see how does it meet the criteria for a speedy delete. Or am I missing something and it does meet them? --Nabla 05:50, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)
 * It was essentially just an advert for the website—including the name of the website's editor didn't make it any less of a link platform. I don't believe anyone would have voted to keep it.  Postdlf 06:04, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Me neither. I was just trying to understand the (speedy) deletion criteria. Thanks.--Nabla 14:05, 2005 Jun 15 (UTC)

Quite an impressive brag list
On your user page, you list an impressive quantity and quality of articles you've created. Reading over it reminded me of something from months ago. Step into the wayback machine. SWAdair | Talk 06:26, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Category:Actors from California
I think the actors from California category will be useful because there are currently over 400 people in Category:People from California, and several thousands of people in Category:American actors, making both categories to large to be useful (the Bs on American actors takes up more than one whole page). Right now, the actors cat isn't useful unless you know the name of the person you're searching for, and then a simple search called for, not browsing through the categories. By the way, I plan to create other California occupation categories, its just that the first article I found belonged to an actor. Gentgeen 18:34, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Please hold off on creating any more CA occupation categories—I think there needs to be discussion over the best way to handle the people state categories. Currently, there isn't any clear criteria as to who goes in which state, so subdividing the state categories by occupation, to the exclusion of the national occupation categories, is not a very good idea.  How much of someone's life has to spent in a state?  Categories for any state someone has lived or worked in would get rather ridiculous (an article about me would include four and I'm not even 30 yet).  Even if we could pin down a standard of what qualifies as a significant enough attachment, what relationship does someone's state of residence have to their occupation?  If they've held political office, the relationship is pretty clear to their career as a politician—they were a state governor, member of the state legislature, etc).  But an actor?  No one identifies acting with a state-specific nexus.  True, acting for many may be an international profession, but someone's nationality is still a much more obvious and natural way to group someone as opposed to their state of residence.
 * Even if Category:American actors could be considered overpopulated, any subdivision has to be a sensible one that eases navigation, rather than hindering it, and the classification has to be complete. I've thought of creating Category:American television actors and Category:American cinema actors, because it's natural to separate actors by what medium they have acted in.  I just can't say the same for someone's state affiliation.
 * So why should anyone think that being from a particular state is that important of a characteristic to classify an actor by, if they're not primarily known for acting in that state? What other occupations were you thinking about creating state-specific categories for, and why do you believe that practicing those occupations has a significant nexus with a particular state?  Postdlf 22:57, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Discussing things beforehand is the antithesis of be bold. Category:American actors is overcrowded and no longer useful. Category:People from California is close to being overcrowded and no longer useful. According to Categorization, ''When a given category gets crowded, also consider making several subcategories. Group similar articles together in a meaningful and useful way that will make it easy for readers to navigate later. Remember that several subcategorization schemes can coexist (for example, if Category:Software gets too big, you don't have to choose between subdividing it by function or subdividing it by platform, you can simultaneously subdivide it in both ways).'' If someone else wants to subdivide the categories in a different way, I won't stop them. Gentgeen 00:17, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Grouping them together as "Actors from California" is neither meaningful nor useful, as I've explained above. No comment on that?  Postdlf 00:20, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Actually, discussing things beforehand helps to avoid edit/revert wars, the resulting anger from both sides, possible blocking, etc, etc. That said, the question of criteria hasn't been answered.  Who gets to be in the category Actors from California?  I'm not saying this isn't a problem that should be looked at.  But perhaps there is a better solution?  --Kbdank71 17:12, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Copyright vio?
I have started a discussion about the Sentinels page regarding whether we have permission to use the copyrighted image. I believe you posted the image. It sounds likely that you will know more about the legalities of copyright law than I will, so if you could clear this up on that page, I'd really appreciate it. If upon reflection you decide the image should not be posted, you can either remove it or just update the discussion page and someone else will do it. Feel free to remove this section from your talk page if you wish once this issue is resolved. Thanks for your time. --Yamla 21:01, 2005 Jun 16 (UTC)
 * I've posted an answer on Talk:Sentinels (comics)—I hope that satisfies your concerns. Postdlf 22:34, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Thanks, that's a much more complete answer than I was expecting. It certainly clears things up.  I hope you do not feel that I was attacking you, I just wanted to be sure that things were on the up-and-up.  --Yamla 03:32, 2005 Jun 17 (UTC)
 * Don't mention it, happy to assist (plus it's my profession, anyway). Postdlf 03:45, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

My Rfa
Thank you for supporting me! --Kbdank71 13:38, 17 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Grand Canyon link deletion challenge removal
Hello. :-) You said you would discuss the misplacement of my link removal rebuttal on the user's talk page.  Is this the page you meant?  I've also looked and found what a sysops is, looked at the list of sysops, and have found that the person who gave the summary judgment of my presentation as "nonsense" (as regards Grand Canyon, btw, he said "the" Grand Canyon, which is itself improper) is also a sysops.  Maybe being a sysops has gone to his head.  In my short exposure to Wikipedia I have already come across comment about high-handedness from him on a different page.  Anyway, I would like your input.  I'd never visited a Wikipedia page until a few days ago when trying to track down where outside links to the presentation were coming from that were helping our rankings in the Grand Canyon categories, and it turned out to be the Wikipedia fractals page(s).  Please give me the heads up on what I should have done instead, even though there are probably some really good reasons that my presentation shouldn't be on the Grand Canyon page, because the math agenda conflicts with the spirit and focus of the page. It was the "non"sense, or lack of sense, in the way the link was removed that I was rebutting.
 * No, I meant discuss it on the talk page of the person who removed your link, and see if you can better explain yourselves to one another and hopefully persuade. Postdlf 20:52, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Admin Assistance Request
Could you deal with the copy vio on the Cape Henry Collegiate School page? The creator has rewritten it on the temp page so that it's no longer a copy vio. He seems pretty steamed about the whole thing, so I was wondering if you could speed up the process. Thanks. WAvegetarian 23:20, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * I suppose I could; the author has effectively conceded that the original was a copyvio, though in general I wouldn't worry too much about a copyright infringer getting steamed. Not like it's our bad.  Postdlf 05:28, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Coolcat and copyvio
Above you state "no one has checked out your claim yet—simply asserting you had permission is not good enough.", and I'd love to know where we are hiding this little policy... I ask because it would be terribly handy in dealing with people who insist on uploading copyvio, and non-disclosed source image and whom fight their deletion with 'I said so' handwaving. --Gmaxwell 07:13, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

title: User talk:Postdlf/Archive4


text: User talk:84.65.215.7

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:84.65.215.7


text:
Talk:Dutch elm disease

Comments
who discovered dutch elm disease? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.156.132.163 (talk • contribs) 19:46, December 16, 2004 (UTC)
 * the dutch? ;) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Dpaajones (talk • contribs) 18:30, November 11, 2005 (UTC)

 * the elm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.100.250.218 (talk • contribs).

Resistant trees
The Red Elm is not mentioned as being among the 'resistant trees,' and therefore no explanation is given, either, as to why it hasn't played a greater role in the resistance programme. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 212.100.250.218 (talk • contribs).

Role of climate change and woodpecker decline
It seems likely that either or both of global warming and decline in woodpeckers, which predate on beetle larvae, itself resulting from reductions in the area of mature broadleaved woodland, losses of non-woodland trees including elms, increases in woodland isolation and reductions in the occurrence of dead wood (Vanhinsbergh et al. 2001) are candidate causes for the spread of the disease (http://www.bto.org/birdtrends2001/wcrleswo.htm), but we will need a reference for the first. See also http://www.nps.gov/shen/naturescience/downy-woodpecker.htm

what does it look like? {dutch elm disease}71.105.147.212 22:38, 24 July 2007 (UTC)leeanne

Populations of Downy and one other Woodpecker species native to North America have substantially shown recovery since the introduction of a new exponentially building larval food source, Emerald Ash Borer. Woodpeckers extreme behavior during todays Extant & Extinction of Fraxinus has now been well documented after causing unprecedented "Flecking" of whole trunks and limbs when foraging for EAB larva over winter. Never before have Woodpeckers been observed causing this much extensive damage to bark, when searching out native phloem borer larvae over past human history.CHICAGOCONCERTMAN (talk) 02:50, 31 May 2015 (UTC)

Eradicating the beetle
The article makes no mention of any efforts to eradicate or control the beetle itself, thus preventing, or limiting, the spread of the fungus. If any serious work by entomologists had been done on this, one would assume it would have been mentioned in the article. As this line of reasoning will surely occur to most readers of the article, would it not be a good idea for the botanists to explain why it is not worth while attempting? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

B-Class???
I don't know why Wikipedia rated this as a B-class article it seems more like a C-class to me, this is why:

It does not follow a consistent structure, with info scattered around,

In my opinion it should have more info about the cause of the disease and less info about where it has originated... so on

I don't think its a bad article so much, just that it could be a lot better, I will try and fix it up with some of your consent.Mike of Wikiworld (talk) 08:30, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Spread of disease
Even though this is an English languaged encyclopedia, it does seem a bit strange that the "Europe" section only mentions the disease in the UK, followed by sections labeled "United States" and "Canada". I presume this disease also existed outside of English speaking countries? --Saddhiyama (talk) 23:18, 6 August 2010 (UTC)

Anti- Dutch Trig
There is this uncited statement in the Preventative Treatment - Biological section: "Trials in the US most notably Denver Colorado showed that Dutch Trig had a dramatic effect Elms and that the treated trees were made sick by the treatment." I believe the source for this statement may be this forum user's posts here where the poster also appears to be confused about how the preventative treatment is supposed to work: of course the trees are uninfected. Also this statement, flat out contradicted by the trial results. Reading onwards, this individual also has a relationship with a competitor to Dutch Trig. Okay. Anyway, all the more reliable sources I can find state that the Denver, CO, trials were highly successful, so I'm deleting this unsupported statement and replacing it with cited info.118.209.46.88 (talk) 05:27, 5 August 2013 (UTC)

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Spanish version photos
The Spanish GA version is much shorter than what we have, but it does appear to have some superior photos. If anyone wants to rework this page, I'd suggest borrowing some from there. {{u| Sdkb  }}  talk 05:28, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Dutch elm disease


text:
2003 Catalan regional election

The 2003 Catalan regional election was held on Sunday, 16 November 2003, to elect the 7th Parliament of the autonomous community of Catalonia. All 135 seats in the Parliament were up for election.

This election marked a change for all Catalan political parties due to Catalan president Jordi Pujol's decision not to seek a seventh term in office and to retire from active politics. The election results were a great disappointment for Pasqual Maragall's Socialists' Party of Catalonia (PSC), which again saw Convergence and Union (CiU) winning a plurality of seats despite them winning the most votes by a margin of just 0.3%. Opinion polls earlier in the year had predicted a much larger victory for Maragall, but his lead over CiU had begun to narrow as the election grew nearer. Republican Left of Catalonia (ERC) was perceived as the true victor of the election, doubling its 1999 figures and scoring its best result in its recent history up to that point, both in terms of seats (23 of 135) and votes (16.4%), up from 11 seats and 8.7%.

As Pujol's successor Artur Mas did not win a majority large enough to renew his party pact with the People's Party (PP), which had kept Pujol in power since 1995, an alliance between the PSC, ERC and ICV–EUiA resulted in a Catalan "tripartite" government. Thus, despite losing 10 seats and 150,000 votes compared to the 1999 election, Maragall became the first centre-left president of the Government of Catalonia, ending with 23 uninterrupted years of CiU rule.

Electoral system
The Parliament of Catalonia was the devolved, unicameral legislature of the autonomous community of Catalonia, having legislative power in regional matters as defined by the Spanish Constitution and the Catalan Statute of Autonomy, as well as the ability to vote confidence in or withdraw it from a regional president. Transitory Provision Fourth of the Statute established a specific electoral procedure for elections to the Parliament of Catalonia, of application for as long as a regional electoral law was not approved, to be supplemented by the provisions within the national electoral law. Voting for the Parliament was on the basis of universal suffrage, which comprised all nationals over 18 years of age, registered in Catalonia and in full enjoyment of their political rights.

The 135 members of the Parliament of Catalonia were elected using the D'Hondt method and a closed list proportional representation, with an electoral threshold of three percent of valid votes—which included blank ballots—being applied in each constituency. Seats were allocated to constituencies, corresponding to the provinces of Barcelona, Girona, Lleida and Tarragona, with each being allocated a fixed number of seats:

The use of the D'Hondt method might result in a higher effective threshold, depending on the district magnitude.

Election date
The term of the Parliament of Catalonia expired four years after the date of its previous election, unless it was dissolved earlier. The regional president was required to call an election fifteen days prior to the date of expiry of parliament, with election day taking place within sixty days after the call. The previous election was held on 17 October 1999, which meant that the legislature's term would have expired on 17 October 2003. The election was required to be called no later than 2 October 2003, with it taking place on the sixtieth day from the call, setting the latest possible election date for the Parliament on Monday, 1 December 2003.

The president had the prerogative to dissolve the Parliament of Catalonia and call a snap election, provided that no motion of no confidence was in process and that dissolution did not occur before one year had elapsed since a previous one under this procedure. In the event of an investiture process failing to elect a regional President within a two-month period from the first ballot, the Parliament was to be automatically dissolved and a fresh election called.

Background
In the 1999 election, and as a result of the Socialists' Party of Catalonia (PSC)'s growth, the Catalan nationalist Convergence and Union (CiU) had lost the vote share in a regional election for the first time ever, but clung on to retain the largest amount of seats due to the disproportionate allocation of seats in Girona, Lleida and Tarragona compared to Barcelona. Through to the support of the People's Party (PP), Jordi Pujol had been able to be re-elected to a sixth term in office with a slim majority of 68 to the 67 seats commanded by the left-from-centre opposition.

Despite Pujol's personal approval ratings remaining high until the end of his term, speculation on his possible retirement (which he confirmed on 1 April 2001), internal disputes between Democratic Convergence of Catalonia (CDC) and Democratic Union of Catalonia (UDC) over the future of the alliance —which resulted in CiU being turned into a full-fledged party federation in order to ensure its continuity in the post-Pujol era —and a desire for change after 23 years in power had resulted in CiU trailing the PSC in opinion polls for the entire legislature, with a lead that was nearly into the double digits by mid-to-late 2002. From mid-2003, however, the Socialist lead had begun to narrow to the point that chances for a possible reenactment of the 1999 tight race remained high. The retirement of Pujol as CiU candidate paved the way for Artur Mas, the then chief minister (Conseller en cap), to replace him as the culmination of a long successory process.

Republican Left of Catalonia (ERC) had been in an almost continuous growth since the 1988 election, becoming a political force able to pierce through the dominant two-party system in Catalonia. Initiative for Catalonia Greens (ICV) and United and Alternative Left (EUiA) had run separately in the previous election, but ahead of the 2003 election joined within the ICV–EA coalition.

Parliamentary composition
The Parliament of Catalonia was officially dissolved on 23 September 2003, after the publication of the dissolution decree in the Official Journal of the Government of Catalonia. The table below shows the composition of the parliamentary groups in the chamber at the time of dissolution.

Parties and candidates
The electoral law allowed for parties and federations registered in the interior ministry, coalitions and groupings of electors to present lists of candidates. Parties and federations intending to form a coalition ahead of an election were required to inform the relevant Electoral Commission within ten days of the election call, whereas groupings of electors needed to secure the signature of at least one percent of the electorate in the constituencies for which they sought election, disallowing electors from signing for more than one list of candidates.

Below is a list of the main parties and electoral alliances which contested the election:

Opinion polls
The tables below list opinion polling results in reverse chronological order, showing the most recent first and using the dates when the survey fieldwork was done, as opposed to the date of publication. Where the fieldwork dates are unknown, the date of publication is given instead. The highest percentage figure in each polling survey is displayed with its background shaded in the leading party's colour. If a tie ensues, this is applied to the figures with the highest percentages. The "Lead" column on the right shows the percentage-point difference between the parties with the highest percentages in a poll.

Voting intention estimates
The table below lists weighted voting intention estimates. Refusals are generally excluded from the party vote percentages, while question wording and the treatment of "don't know" responses and those not intending to vote may vary between polling organisations. When available, seat projections determined by the polling organisations are displayed below (or in place of) the percentages in a smaller font; 68 seats were required for an absolute majority in the Parliament of Catalonia.

 * Color key:

Voting preferences
The table below lists raw, unweighted voting preferences.

Victory preferences
The table below lists opinion polling on the victory preferences for each party in the event of a regional election taking place.

Victory likelihood
The table below lists opinion polling on the perceived likelihood of victory for each party in the event of a regional election taking place.

Preferred President
The table below lists opinion polling on leader preferences to become president of the Government of Catalonia.

 * All candidates

 * Maragall vs. Mas

 * Maragall vs. Pujol

 * Maragall vs. Duran i Lleida

 * Maragall vs. Mas vs. Piqué

 * Maragall vs. Pujol vs. Piqué

 * Maragall vs. Duran i Lleida vs. Piqué

Predicted President
The table below lists opinion polling on the perceived likelihood for each leader to become president of the Government of Catalonia.

 * All candidates

 * Maragall vs. Mas

 * Maragall vs. Pujol

 * Maragall vs. Duran i Lleida

 * Maragall vs. Mas vs. Piqué

 * Maragall vs. Pujol vs. Piqué

 * Maragall vs. Duran i Lleida vs. Piqué

title: 2003 Catalan regional election


text:
Tu'i Malila

Tu'i Malila (1777 – 16 May 1966) was a tortoise that Captain James Cook was traditionally said to have given to the royal family of Tonga. She was a female radiated tortoise (Astrochelys radiata) from Madagascar. Although believed to have been a male during its life, examination after the tortoise's death suggested it was female.

The name means King Malila in the Tongan language.

Life
According to one story, Tu'i Malila was one of a pair of tortoises given by Captain Cook to the Tongan royal family upon his visit to Tonga in July 1777. The other tortoise reportedly died shortly after Cook's visit. This story has been discounted on the basis that Cook made no mention of the event in his journal, although it has been suggested that the tortoise may have been the gift of a member of Cook's crew instead.

According to other sources, George Tupou I obtained her from a vessel which called in Haʻapai in the first half of the 19th century.

The tortoise was taken to Muʻa, where it was kept in a compound named Malila, from which it took its name. Around 1921, Sālote Tupou III moved the tortoise to the Royal Palace. Despite being kicked by a horse and run over several times, the tortoise continued its life, although it was left blind and with a badly wounded right-hand side.

During Queen Elizabeth II's Royal Tour of Tonga in 1953, Tu'i Malila was one of the first animals shown to the monarch on her official visit to the island nation.

The tortoise died on 16 May 1966, aged approximately 188 years old. Tu'i Malila was listed for some time in the Guinness Book of World Records as the oldest known tortoise. In 2006, a tortoise named Adwaita was claimed by an Indian zoo to be 255 years old at the age of its death, but this was never officially confirmed. In 2022, Jonathan, a tortoise living on the south Atlantic island of Saint Helena exceeded Tu'i Malila's reported age and is still alive as of 2024.

A Reuters dispatch of the tortoise makes an appearance as an epigraph in Philip K. Dick's Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

title: Tu'i Malila


text:
Johann Gottfried Köhler

Johann Gottfried Köhler (15 December 1745 – 19 September 1801) was a German astronomer who discovered a number of nebulae, star clusters, and galaxies.

Köhler is best remembered for his discovery of Open Cluster M67, Elliptical Galaxy M59, and Elliptical Galaxy M60. The latter two were discovered on the same day, 11 April 1779.

He worked with the noted astronomer Johann Elert Bode, who refined and published Köhler's proposal for the symbol of Uranus.

From 1784 he was the director of Mathematisch-Physikalischer Salon.

title: Johann Gottfried Köhler


text:
Honeoye Lake

Honeoye Lake is one of the Finger Lakes located in Ontario County, New York. Most of the lake is within the town of Richmond but a smaller southwestern part is in the town of Canadice. The hamlet of Honeoye is just north of the lake.

The name Honeoye comes from the Seneca word ha-ne-a-yah, which means lying finger, or where the finger lies. The name comes from the local story of a Native American whose finger was bitten by a rattlesnake and who therefore cut off his finger with a tomahawk.

Description
Honeoye Lake is the second smallest of the Finger Lakes and is located to the west of the major lakes. To its west are other minor Finger Lakes: Canadice Lake, Hemlock Lake, and Conesus Lake. As with the other Finger Lakes, Honeoye Lake was created by the advance and subsequent melting of continental glaciation.

The lake's surface is 804 ft above sea level. The lake is long and narrow with a roughly north-south orientation, and a surface area of 1772 acre. It is also relatively shallow and warmer than the other Finger Lakes. Its outlet is Honeoye Creek, which flows northward. A major feeder stream, called Honeoye Inlet, enters the lake at the south end.

The hamlet of Honeoye in the Town of Richmond is located at its northern end. The Honeoye Lake Park Association administers a large tract of summer cottages and year-round dwellings known as the Times-Union Tract just south of the hamlet on the east side of the lake.

Recreation
The shore of the lake has a high density of recreation homes, many with docks for boats and other recreation vehicles. In warmer weather, fishing is considered exceptional in Honeoye Lake. Walleye, bass, perch and bluegill are some of the recreational and tournament fish that can be found. Popular recreational activities also include boating, tubing, water skiing, wake boarding, and other water sports.

The Ring of Fire tradition is annually celebrated Labor Day weekend by area residents. Flares are lit around the lakeshore to signify summer's end and to recognize the wealth of the Finger Lakes harvest. In the winter, the water freezes quickly and maintains its solid surface throughout the season, at which time the lake is used for ice fishing, skating, and ice boating.

Public places
On the north end of the lake is Sandy Bottom Park, which includes a life guarded beach, two playgrounds, and multiple pavilions. There is also a boat launch that is available from May 15 to Labor Day.

Honeoye Lake Boat Launch State Park is available on the east side, towards the south end of the lake, and is open from May to November. Harriet Hollister Spencer State Recreation Area, located on Canadice Hill south of the lake, overlooks Honeoye Lake.

Environmental Issues
In recent years the lake has suffered from water quality problems including shoreline erosion due to boating and blue-green algae blooms.

title: Honeoye Lake


text:
Courtney Alexander

Courtney Jason Alexander (born April 27, 1977) is an American former professional basketball player.

Career
After playing high school basketball at Masuk High School in Monroe, Connecticut Alexander moved to Durham, North Carolina, to play for C. E. Jordan High School to finish his high school career. A shooting guard, he played college basketball at University of Virginia and Fresno State, and he led the nation in scoring in the 1999–2000 season at Fresno State.

He was selected by the Orlando Magic with the 13th overall pick in the 2000 NBA draft; his rights were traded to the Dallas Mavericks on the same day. He played for the Mavericks before being traded during his rookie season to the Washington Wizards where he played until 2002. He was named to the All-Rookie 2nd Team. He was then traded in the offseason to the New Orleans Hornets. A highlight of his career was a 33-point effort for the Wizards against the Toronto Raptors on April 18, 2001 when Richard Hamilton was out with injuries.

He suffered a tear of his Achilles' tendon in 2003 while with the Hornets, and after rehabilitating his injury, he later signed with the Sacramento Kings but was released before ever playing a game for them due to an injury to the tendons in his left foot. On October 8, 2006, Alexander was signed by the Denver Nuggets after being out of the league for three seasons, but was waived on October 15.

Because of his 3-year hiatus and being waived in October 2006 by the Nuggets before ever playing a game for them, Alexander's final NBA game was actually played on May 2, 2003, in Game 6 of the Eastern Conference First Round against the Philadelphia 76ers. In that game, he only recorded 2 points as the Hornets would lose the series 4 - 2 and being eliminated from the playoffs.

Regular season

 * align=left|2000–01
 * align=left|Dallas
 * 38||6||12.4||.348||.300||.733||1.7||.6||.4||.1||4.2
 * align=left|2000–01
 * align=left|Washington
 * 27||18||33.7||.448||.389||.857||3.0||1.5||1.1||.1||17.0
 * align=left|2001–02
 * align=left|Washington
 * 56||28||23.7||.470||.278||.810||2.6||1.5||.6||.1||9.8
 * align=left|2002–03
 * align=left|New Orleans
 * 66||7||20.6||.382||.333||.808||1.8||1.2||.5||.1||7.9
 * -class=sortbottom
 * style="text-align:center;" colspan=2|Career
 * 187||59||21.7||.422||.339||.813||2.2||1.2||.6||.1||9.0
 * }
 * -class=sortbottom
 * style="text-align:center;" colspan=2|Career
 * 187||59||21.7||.422||.339||.813||2.2||1.2||.6||.1||9.0
 * }

Playoffs

 * align=left|2003
 * align=left|New Orleans
 * 5||0||7.8||.438||1.000||.750||.8||.2||.4||.0||3.6
 * -class=sortbottom
 * style="text-align:center;" colspan=2|Career
 * 5||0||7.8||.438||1.000||.750||.8||.2||.4||.0||3.6
 * }
 * }

title: Courtney Alexander


text:
Albert of Austria

Albert of Austria may refer to:

 * Albert I of Germany (1255–1308, r. 1298–1308), King of Germany and Duke of Austria
 * Albert II, Duke of Austria (1298–1358)
 * Albert III, Duke of Austria (1349–1395)
 * Albert IV, Duke of Austria (1377–1404)
 * Albert II of Germany (1397–1439), King of Germany, King of Hungary, Croatia and Bohemia, Duke of Austria as Albert V
 * Albert VI, Archduke of Austria (1418–1463)
 * Albert VII, Archduke of Austria (1559–1621), Governor of the Spanish Netherlands
 * Archduke Albert, Duke of Teschen (1817–1895), Austrian General

title: Albert of Austria


text:
Silver dapple gene

The silver or silver dapple (Z) gene is a dilution gene that affects the black base coat color and is associated with Multiple Congenital Ocular Abnormalities. It will typically dilute a black mane and tail to a silvery gray or flaxen color, and a black body to a chocolaty brown, sometimes with dapples. It is responsible for a group of coat colors in horses called "silver dapple" in the west, or "taffy" in Australia. The most common colors in this category are black silver and bay silver, referring to the respective underlying coat color.

Mature black silvers typically have sooty white or silver manes and tails with a flat, non-fading, dark grey or grey-brown body coat. The body coat frequently exhibits dapples, rings of lighter-colored hair.

Mature bay silvers retain their reddish bodies, though the presence of small amounts of silver often gives them a chocolate appearance. The mane and tail are usually a sooty silver, darker at the roots, and the legs are usually a flat, brownish-grey mottled with silver. The hair around the eyes and muzzle may also show signs of silvering.

Silver dapple foals can be difficult to identify, but commonly have a pale, wheat-colored body coat, white eyelashes, and hooves with tapering vertical stripes. These characteristics fade over time.

Red-based horses, such as chestnuts and chestnuts with other dilution factors (such as palominos, and cremello) may carry the silver dapple gene, and may pass it on to their offspring, but will not express the gene in their own body color.

Silver mimics

 * Gray: While gray horses grow progressively lighter, silver dapples often darken with age. A silver dapple masked by gray (i.e. carries both genes and, because gray is a dominant gene, becomes white with age) may be identified by use of DNA testing.
 * Liver chestnut: Silver dapples, especially bay silvers, are frequently misidentified as liver chestnuts or flaxen chestnuts. Flaxen manes and tails in chestnuts tend to have honey or red tones, while the pale manes and tails of silver dapples are soot-toned and darker at the roots. Liver chestnuts also lack the grey-brown dappling on the lower legs. The darkest liver chestnuts often have a kind of marbling on the lower legs, though this hair, too, should show red or yellow tones. Overall, chestnuts of all shades have red-yellow character to their coats, while silver bays recall grey-brown. Knowledge of the pedigree of the horse in question is often useful: two chestnut-based parents cannot produce a silver bay or silver black. DNA testing can be used in the most difficult cases.
 * "Sooty" palomino: Dark palominos may be hard to distinguish from silver dapples, particularly if the mane or tail of a palomino contain streaks of silver. A true palomino, with a red-based coat, will exhibit yellow or gold tones; a silver horse, in contrast, is by definition black-based and exhibits gray, black or brown undertones. A sooty palomino, like other creme dilutes, may have brown eyes a shade lighter than average, but this is not true of silver dapples. When actual color is in question, pedigree information or a DNA test can help clarify matters.

Prevalence

Many breeds do not possess the silver dapple gene. The coat color is traditionally associated with the Rocky Mountain Horse and the Miniature Horse. Scandinavian breeds and their descendants such as the Icelandic horse, Nordland Pony, Shetland Pony, Welsh Mountain Pony, Welsh Pony, Swedish Warmblood and Finnhorse are also found in the silver dapple colors. American horse breeds known to have the silver gene include the Morgan, American Saddlebred, Missouri Foxtrotter, Tennessee Walking Horse, and the American Quarter Horse. European draft breeds such as the Comtois and Ardennais also occur in silver. Historically the color was found in the Dutch Groningen, but the breed was crossbred to produce the Dutch Warmblood and underwent subsequent genetic bottlenecking, so the gene may no longer be present.

Inheritance and expression
The silver dapple trait is caused by a missense mutation (labeled Z) in the PMEL17 gene on horse chromosome 6. It is transmitted by autosomal dominant inheritance (simple dominance). PMEL17 is active from quite early in embryonic development through to the mature cell's melanosome and is involved with the production of the black pigment eumelanin.

Melanins, which provide color in the eyes, skin, and hair, are found in two types: eumelanin, which produces black to brown pigment, and phaeomelanin, which produces red to yellow pigment. Most horses can produce both types; the brown appearance of a bay horse's coat is caused by alternating bands of eumelanin and phaeomelanin, for which the agouti gene is responsible. Eumelanin predominates in the legs, mane and tail of bay horses. By contrast, horses which lack a functional agouti gene cannot produce such alternating bands, and thus have wholly black coats with no visible phaeomelanin. Chestnut horses lack the ability to manufacture eumelanin altogether, and so have wholly red coats devoid of true black pigment.

While the role of PMEL17 is not fully understood, the silver dapple gene exclusively produces dilution, or hypopigmentation, of eumelanin. The dilution changes black into various shades of platinum, silver and flat grey, though the original black-brown character of the color is usually preserved. The effects of the gene are more striking in the mane and tail. Horses with chestnut or chestnut-family coats - such as palomino, red roan, or red dun - are therefore unaffected by the gene and may silently carry it and pass it on to their offspring.

On the template of a black horse, which has a coat rich in eumelanin, the effect is that of complete conversion to varying shades of silver. Often the body remains quite dark while the mane and tail are strongly diluted. On the template of a bay horse, which has eumelanin largely restricted to the points, these points are converted to silver while the phaeomelanic body is mostly unaffected.

An undesirable effect associated with the gene is eye problems, notably multiple congenital ocular anomalies (MCOA). MCOA has multiple clinical signs including a bulbous bulging of the eye, cornea globosa, severe iridal hypoplasia, uveal cysts, cataracts, and in a few cases, retinal detachment. These conditions can be detected via ultrasound examination of the eye. In a 2013 study of Comtois horses and Rocky Mountain Horses, all animals carrying the mutated form of PMEL17 had some eye disorder, though milder problems in animals heterozygous for the allele versus those who were homozygous. None of the control horses of these breeds who lacked the mutated form of PMEL17 had any eye disorder. Similar mutations in other species provide insight into the roles played by the PMEL17 gene. Relatively few such mutations are known, which suggests that the gene is involved in processes critical to survival. Several of the mutations known are related to pigmentation: premature silvering in mice, diluted and white plumage in chickens, and the widely known merle dilution in dogs. The merle coat in dogs is associated with auditory and ophthalmologic disorders, such as deafness and microphthalmia. In Rocky Mountain Horses, the silver dapple color is sometimes associated with Anterior Segment Dysgenesis (ASD) which affects the structures in the face and the front of the eye. Most often, the syndrome presents as benign lesions, though homozygotes may have impaired vision. As ASD is found in non-silver representatives of the breed, it is thought to be physically close to the silver gene and to have come from a silver dapple, ASD-affected foundation ancestor, thus is an example of the Founder effect.

title: Silver dapple gene