text:
Talk:Field Spaniel

Page Inaccuracies
The page header was fundamentally incorrect, being taken from Peggy Graysons definitive book, the first 15 pages, when the field spaniel appears a few pages later! On behalf of the Field Spaniel Society, I have amended the header, and now will be updating the main body of the work via my sandbox. Please feel free to comment on it here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Kriswarry/sandbox I also wish to add some disambiguation notes to help prevent the confusion between a Field Spaniel, and a field bred Spaniel, usually a Cocker or Springer — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kriswarry (talk • contribs) 10:20, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

Looking at the health section, not only is there no mention of pasterns and their issues, the pasterns page doesnt mention dogs having them, only horses! Going to put a note there too of intent to add content. Kriswarry (talk) 07:49, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

And now even my own copyrighted, correctly posted via wikicommons photo to show the difference between a Field and a Cocker has been removed. You are bulling and harassing me, just deleteing everything however I post it. Kriswarry (talk) 20:10, 18 December 2017 (UTC)

 * As noted below, I posted a fairly comprehensive reason for reverting the page. Given the extensive issues introduced across the page, I didn't really have much of an option. In addition, given that you have introduced copyrighted content on several pages, I am checking your edits quite carefully when I have the time. This isn't harassment; this is accountability. An issue has been raised regarding previous edits, so it makes sense for someone to check and ensure that your previous editing hasn't violated the same rules. Unfortunately it has, which is why your editing is under significant scrutiny at the moment. Stui (talk) 16:34, 19 December 2017 (UTC)

Vulnerable Native Breed
I would prefer this not be applied to the article. Most breeds do NOT have over 300 puppies a year. The Field produces only 5-8 puppies a liter and breeders purposely do not breed excessively.--Watershipkennel 17:34, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

This breed is classed in Britain as a VNB - a breed which originated in the UK but now has registration numbers with the Kennel Club of less then 300 puppies per year.

I'm a Canadian teenager on a gap year before Uni and I'm really interested in this. Would anyone like a VNB paragraph/link on this page? I can write it, but am ignorant about formatting etc. Plus, I'm trying to put together a whole collection on all 29 breeds on this list, including history and so on, using Wikipedia as one of my many sources. If you can help, or are interested at all, please contact me either on my talk page or at green_ied_dragon@hotmail.com

--The Wizard of Magicland 19:44, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Image
The current picture is acceptable but I will be providing more pictures for this article.--Watershipkennel 05:27, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

THe picture posted is not a field spaniel. It appears to be a field-bred springer spaniel, but field spaniels are self-colored (solid) usually a dark brown.--Counsel 01:07, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

 * If we're looking for a better image, there's one on the field spaniel page in a defferent language (Russian I think). Pharaoh Hound 15:23, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

That's right--it's a Springer, or at least not a Field. I've added an external link at the end of the apperance section that shows my old Field.

 * Hi, if you want to link to an image of your dog - you should upload the photograph image into wikipedia and internal linking to that image.  If you need help with this procedure, feel free to leave a message on my talk page - Trysha (talk) 21:15, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

Fields can be solid or roan, didnt see the picture, just wanting to correct the misapprehension above. I also wish to replace the pictures with those of some full CH and ShCh examples. Kriswarry (talk) 08:01, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

GA Nomination
Going to be nominating this article up for a GA shortly. Just a note here to let the reviewer know that I won't be including this as a Wikicup entry as I don't consider myself to have done significant work on it this year. In fact, it was an oversight that I hadn't nominated it last October - I'd simply forgotten to nominate it. Miyagawa  (talk)  21:25, 30 January 2011 (UTC)

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Field Spaniel Society
There have been a series of edits by a new editor concerning the Field Spaniel Society's preferred wording on puppy purchase and confusiuon with other breeds. Something along the lines of "puppies of other breeds are sometimes marketed as "field spaniels," leading to confusion among prospective owners", which will need a source in any case, might be suitable, but the encyclopedia article is not an appropriate place for informal "buyer beware" notices place at the behest of a breed association.  Acroterion   (talk)   13:22, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

most of the article is incorrect, I am trying to correct it, I am slow, and so doing it bit by bit. if I was given enough damn chance to add the referneces then I would, instead my stuff just keeps getting deleted. this is very disability unfriendly after I have tried to explain what I am steadily dpoing — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kriswarry (talk • contribs) 13:27, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

 * The article is a reviewed good article, fully referenced - you must discuss substantial changes here first, and you must provide references, in published literature. I am headed to work for the day. Please take the time to outline your concerns and sources on this talkpage.    Acroterion   (talk)   13:29, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

 * This edit has several issues. In the second pagraph, the summary "Their coats come mostly in solid colours" was replaced by a list of eight or nine different colour variations. The lead section should summarise the content of the article, not provide all the details - and remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, which means that every single detail should not be mentioned in any case. As for the new paragraph, I'm sorry, but it is not in fact supported by the source. The source doesn't mention anything about any confusion, or about people calling cocker spaniels or springer spaniels "field spaniel" inappropriately. --bonadea contributions talk 13:51, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Copy of message left on my talk page
has left the following message on my talk page: tHE FIELD SPANIEL PAGE NOW HAS THE REFEFRENCES ON IT, THEREFOE IT IS NOT SUBSTANSIATED, SO WHY ARE YOU STILL DELETING IT? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kriswarry (talk • contribs) 13:44, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

I had again reverted as the unsubstantiated commentary still remained. Kriswarry, why not try working in a your sandbox? But remember that would not guarantee that any alterations may not be reverted. At the moment you are edit warring and risk being blocked. Re: the edit made a few minutes ago, although it is referenced, it should be in the body of the article not the lead. SagaciousPhil - Chat 14:04, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

 * I agree it should be in the body, but with only enough energy to do a bit a day, I have had to put it in the top for now to stop it getting deleted mid way!  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Kriswarry (talk • contribs) 14:06, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry you are having health problems but the most recent edit as it stands really cannot remain in the article lead at the moment. It does not make sense. As I suggested above, why not work in a sandbox where you can go at your own pace? PS: Please sign your posts on talk pages by using four tildes like this: ~ SagaciousPhil  - Chat 14:14, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Kriswarry (talk) 14:19, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

 * But the original header says it was a show dog originally which is incorrect, the colour stuff is also incorrect, in fact most of the damn header is incorrect. I have now linked it also to the wiki page for cocker spaniels to confirm this change. I cant add conflicting stuff down in the page and leave the header completely incorrectly contradicting it. Kriswarry (talk) 14:19, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * Please slow down and practice some edits in your sandbox as already suggested. The series of edits you have just made are not acceptable for several reasons: they are not grammatical, incorrectly formatted, Wikipedia cannot be used as a source (and if you have copied text from another article, attribution must be given - see WP:CWW. SagaciousPhil  - Chat 14:34, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

 * Actually, I have now reverted as a copyvio. "In the late 19th century the term “field spaniel” was used to describe all the land spaniels which were then apportioned with names depending on size and colour: smaller dogs were cockers, larger ones springers. If the larger ones were liver/white and black/white they were deemed springers, if solid coloured they were Fields." has been directly copied from the Kennel Club here. SagaciousPhil  - Chat 14:47, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Some one else insisted I move the reference to that page further down the text! I had put the reference in the header along with the wiki page reference to the cocker spaniel page. It therefore isn't a copyright violation! will you please all be consistent Kriswarry (talk) 14:53, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

The bit about the history you deleted was from a wikipedia page! would you like to delete the cocker spaniel pages too? please see paragraph 3 as per the link... you cant delete stuff for not being referenced from wikipedia, and then delete the wikipedia refernecs! Kriswarry (talk) 15:03, 5 December 2017 (UTC)
 * , please slow down. Text must not be copied from external sources, it is a copyright violation. As indicated above, the text you added (shown in green above) was directly copied from the Kennel Club website which clearly has a copyright notice at the bottom of every page on its website. I can see that is around at the moment, she is an expert in copyright and may need to look at removing it. You are also edit warring.  SagaciousPhil  - Chat 15:16, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

I have put in an appeal against you. you have been consistently agressive, unhelpful, and are even deleting information from other wikipedia pages. I have made the changes you requested and yet you still find more excuses to delete, conflicting with your prior advice. This is very intimidating and against the ethos of the brand when someone is just trying to correct a very incorrect header that conflicts with the breed standards and specialists. you wont let me use my own words, use external words, or use wikipedia words from other pages. I tried doing small edits and carefully saying where some of this came from around wikipedia, and yet you are not reading it, simply bulk deleting everthing and blaming me, no matter what I do. Kriswarry (talk) 16:02, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

Only UNAUTHORISED use is a copyright violation, plus under fair use terms in the UK there are ways of using single sentences etc. as long as there are proper references - which there were until you made me move them lower down as otherwise you would delete it all. Kriswarry (talk) 16:16, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

 * @Kriswarry: Please slow down and work in your sandbox. Everybody's trying to help you stay within the guardrails of Wikipedia policy, which among other things prohibit copying text from other websites which do not share Wikipedia's copyleft scheme - all Wikipedia content must be freely redistributable and may not originate in non-free sources. Fair use is severely restricted on Wikipedia. This is for specific legal reasons and is not subject to negotiation. There are ways to donate text, but it's simpler to rewrite than to do that paperwork. Nor may you copy text from one part of Wikipedia to another without clear attribution, or use Wikipedia itself as a source for other Wikipedia content. Please assume good faith - everybody who's interacted with you has done so, please reciprocate. Please remember that Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, and not an extension of or free webhost for any breed society. The article may certainly be improved, but it is vital that you use this talkpage to make clear, specific suggestions for improvement and correction, and that you work within Wikipedia's referencing policy and manual of style. Freely editable does not mean that anything goes, and all contributions may be more or less edited or removed - if you've worked with an editor in real life you know what to expect.   Acroterion   (talk)   17:25, 5 December 2017 (UTC)

 * I would also point out that it has to be acceptable in all major jurisdictions. Citing UK law here isn't particularly relevant. It's usually better to reword and rephrase. Stui (talk) 10:50, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

I've had to revert the page back to the original version. My reason for this is because the edits made it extremely similar (both in wording and style) to the cocker spaniel page. In addition, there were a ton of grammar errors introduced, which materially affect the page. I'll give this one a copy edit when I'm done writing for the day, but I'll keep it on my watchlist.

I'm concerned that this is starting to get a little silly. While I appreciate that the edits are generally done in good faith, the same issues are coming up: so far, we've had unsourced statements, problems with grammar and spelling (quite serious ones), and copyvios and now we're getting copy shifted over from other pages. Are field spaniels really worth a separate page from cocker spaniels? And is the information about cocking relevant to field spaniels?

Stui (talk) 08:14, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

Good Article Reassessment
Traumnovelle (talk) 22:13, 16 April 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Field Spaniel


text:
Talk:English Shepherd

Breed Standard
As a sideline observer to the ongoing struggle between the English Shepherd Club and the UKC, I would like to point out that the choice of linking to the UKC standard instead of the ESC standard will NOT go down well. Up until a few years ago they were the same. Then the UKC broke an agreement with the ESC and required that the English Shepherd be shown in conformation. Since the English Shepherd is strictly a working dog, this led to a split between the ESC and the UKC. Since then the two standards have evolved in different directions. The UKC standard has evolved toward much stricter physical appearance and the ESC stardard toward more emphasis on work.

Although I didn't make the change to link to the ESC standard, I do support their position. I would strongly argue that linking solely to the UKC standard defintely expresses a POV. This is every bit as contentious as the Jack Russell Terrier and Border Collie disputes. I just reviewed those pages and note that the only links are to the "big" registeries. I would argue that is incorrect as the breed clubs existed for years without the "support" of the big registeries. Failure to link to the original breed club is a pov asserting that the big registeries are more legitimate than the original breed club, even when the original breed club registers more dogs of that breed than the big registeries.

The ESC/UKC case is less clear cut since they worked together more or less in harmony for decades. It has only been within the past few years that the UKC has demanded that English Shepherds be shown in conformation, thus creating the split between the ESC and the UKC. Still, one can readily argue that the ESC standard is every bit as legitimate as the UKC standard. For this reason I am going to include links to both. Clearly to leave out the UKC standard, as I would prefer to do, expresses a POV. Dsurber 06:06, 20 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I am, not against the ESC but I removed the link from the breed box as I feel it should not be there, of course i may be wrong. I did however let it remain in the external links at the botom of the page. I am still unsure about its position in the breed box as from what i know, that is for major registries. Perhaps it deserves a position in the article itself? Allowing it a more detailed description of why it is there and the diffrences between the ESC and UKC! Tekana 15:19, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Your comment about the breed box being for "major registries" is a point of view. That is why I assert that the ESC should be given equal importance with the UKC. I think this is more clearly demonstrated with the Border Collie, Australian Shepherd, and Jack Russell Terrier. In those three breeds the breed specific registry has existed for many years longer than the AKC's involvement and at least for the Border Collies, still registers more dogs. The ESC is a very old club but has not had a registry for long because up until recently, they got along well with the UKC. Since the UKC has changed their policies, the ESC disassociated themselves from the UKC and started their own registry. Similarly for the breed standard. Up until a few years ago they were the same. Then the UKC started focusing on conformation and since then the UKC and ESC standards have moved apart. I maintain my assertion that restricting the breed box to "major registries" is a pov. Not including every tom-dick-n-harry registry is fine, but an automatic exclusion of any registry not a "major registry" is not justified. If a registry is omitted it must be for a more substantive reason than "it's not the AKC." Dsurber 23:20, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Because the dog breeds project agreed (on more than one occasion, I believe), that the table will include only major all-breed clubs from the various countries.  Everything else goes in external links or in a (hopefully) NPOV section of the article.  Please bring this up at Wikipedia:WikiProject Dog breeds if you want to open the discussion again.  Elf | Talk 23:39, 21 August 2005 (UTC)

 * I don't particularly want to reopen the discussion about all breeds in general. I don't have enough time to do the important things I would like to do for Wikipedia much less that. I stand by my assertion that a blanket policy restricting the breed box to "major registeries" is a pov asserting that only "major registries" are important/legitimate. Anyone making such an assertion should look carefully at the history of the Border Collie and Jack Russell Terrier. In both cases the breed club existed for decades before the AKC got involved. I find omitting the JRTCA from the JRT breed box unfathomable. The JRTCA has a much longer history with the JRT than the AKC.

 * There is a fundamental disconnect between the majority of the people interested in dogs and those people intersted in working dogs. The majority are perfectly happy with the AKC (and UKC) and accept them as the US authority on dogs. The minority involved in working breeds know differently. Whenever there is a conflict between the working dog people and the AKC, the AKC always wins because the average dog person just doesn't have the same perspective as the working dog person. That's why working dog people want to stay as far away from the "major registries" as possible; we never win any battles. I've been involved in too many of these "convince the pet/show people and you can have what you want" situations. I can't convince the pet/show people and it really is no longer worth the effort to try. The English Shepherd is a working breed. It is just wrong to have the content of the ES page be dictated by a blanket policy established by people who are not involved with the breed. Sorry if I seem bitter, but working dogs have lost too many of these battles. Just ask the ABCA or JRTCA people. Dsurber 00:14, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

I do not understand how you can label the "only majour registries" rule as POV. Is not your plight to have the working registries included equally so? What you must understand is that working and show strains in breeds can be very different, even you the point of contradicting each other.

You have already been invited to add a NPOV statement or paragraph into the article, if you were to do that, would that not help people understand the ESC more than simply sticking the link in a little box in the corner? Tekana 10:17, 22 August 2005 (UTC)

 * The "only major registries" rule is clearly pov. Please read this article. The pov of this rule is that only a few registries (AKC, UKC in the US) are important enough to be included in the box. All other registries are ignored no matter their significance to the breed in question. The overwhelming numbers of Jack Russell Terriers, Border Collies, and Australian Shepherds registered by their single breed clubs are effectively marginalized by mentioning only the AKC and UKC in the breed box.

 * People come to these Wikipedia pages for information about a breed they are interested in. By marginalizing the single breed registeries, this policy gives the impression that only AKC and UKC registered dogs are legitimate. Yes, one could write a paragraph that outlines the controversy, but the strong initial impression remains that only the AKC and UKC are legitimate. This policy puts the single-breed registries behind at the starting line and that is clearly pov.

I agree with the previous comments. The policy that *only* major registries may appear in the key breed box on the upper right side of breed pages is a POV that pet dog / show dog registries are more important than the working dog registries. This policy is harmful to the preservation of dog breeds for their original purpose... as working dogs. 24.4.150.21 05:42, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

 * The facts get a little skewed. ESC had agreed to certain things with UKC many years prior to the split, including conformation, but they did not follow through. ESs had been shown long before the split at various intervals. UKC informed the ESC they were being removed as the parent club because of non-compliance to these agreements and ESC choose by a much narrower vote than is portrayed within the club not to try to salvage the relationship. The current ESC standard was written before the ESC/UKC split but not submitted to UKC. The current UKC standard is probably slightly looser than previous UKC standards, not tighter, on general physical characteristics. Conformation showing has never been strong in the breed either now or before but it did exist from Preston Search's  dogs in the 1950's if not before. ````

 * Surprised everyone missed this. What is the definition of major? Major club for all dogs? Or major club for the breed. The second is relevant and the prior is not. So which is the major club for the breed? Is it the ESC or UKC. I am unsure but I believe the ESC may be the defining Club nowadays and have the most registered ES's so that makes them major if I am correct about the numbers. 172.56.2.133 (talk) 08:50, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Photo request

 * English Shepherds are intentionally not show dogs dogs so the above request is odd here. Some have already submitted fine pictures of dogs in the field which is more appropriate than unnatural show dog pictures. 172.56.2.133 (talk) 08:56, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Origin of Breed
Despite its name, the English Shepherd breed originates in the USA. The ES breed was mainly developed from dogs imported to the USA out of the landrace of collie/shepherd dogs that was once common in the UK. But the ES breed also incorporates breeds from other parts of the world, for example it's documented that Beauercon were mixed into the ES breed. The English Shepherd was not developed into a breed in the UK. It was developed into a breed to meet the needs of farmers on small farms in the eastern and midwestern states of the USA.

Numerous references for the American origin of the English Shepherd breed can be found, for example:

- In an article published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences entitled "Breed distribution and history of canine mdr1-1delta, a pharmacogenetic mutation that marks the emergence of breeds from the collie lineage" by Neff, et.al., the authors state "Thus, the ancestral population that produced mdr1-1delta was probably an admixed population of working sheepdogs. The ancestors of the Australian Shepherd, English Shepherd, and McNab also trace back to this ancestral population, roughly defined. Although these latter breeds were developed in North America in the 1900s, they were most likely derived from nondescript farm collies imported from Great Britain and Australia in the 1800s and early 1900s." PNAS August 10, 2004 Vol. 101 no. 32 11729 http://www.pnas.org/cgi/reprint/0402374101v1.pdf

- Linda Rorem's authoritative "Herding on the Web" site references "English Shepherd - An American Breed" http://www.herdingontheweb.com/dogs.htm

- the website of the largest club for the breed, the English Shepherd Club, lists the ES breed as "America's Heritage Farmdog" http://www.englishshepherd.org/ Sardog1 (talk) 07:26, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

 * Genetically speaking using the above argument the origin would be Roman herding dogs. It is well established collies were introduced by the Romans to Britainia, so where is that argument going to end. The current breed developed in the US not Britain or anywhere else with the exception of Canada. So a strong argument could be made to state the origin as North America. I will change it but will not be offended if it is reverted. But discussion here would be nice. Well I am not experienced enough to make the change for North America so someone more expperienced needs to attempt that. 172.56.2.133 (talk) 09:04, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Fixed Up Working Dog Section...
I made some grammatical and clarity changes to the working dog section. - Gunnanmon (talk) 06:26, 3 January 2010 (UTC)

Blacklisted Links Found on the Main Page
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Some Changes were made
I rewrote the entry somewhat to be more historically accurate. I also added some links which are helpful to casual readers. I restored a deleted photo and tweaked the caption a little to be more correct. I probably know or have met many of the ESC people so I will not be offended if any of you do some changes. I just ask that they be edits and not dumb reverts by trolling rollbackers (Trollbackers) and such. We need to police against that mob. 172.56.2.133 (talk) 09:29, 16 May 2014 (UTC)

Requested move 6 December 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: moved. -- Tavix ( talk ) 01:37, 19 December 2016 (UTC)

English Shepherd dog → English Shepherd – Shorter and unoccupied. -- MA SHAUN IX 21:04, 6 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose it's a dog. Clearer. In ictu oculi (talk) 11:15, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * @, so am I to understand that you would support a proposal for Poodle → Poodle dog, Bearded Collie → Bearded Collie dog, King Charles Spaniel → King Charles Spaniel dog, Greyhound → Greyhound dog etc. on the same grounds that they are also 'a dog'? Ebonelm (talk) 22:49, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * the answer to that is here In ictu oculi (talk) 07:51, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Support: per WP:COMMONNAME and the fact that "English Sheperd" is also the proper name; nobody ever calls it an 'English Shepherd dog'. There is no need for disambiguation, and if there were, then the title should be "English Shepherd (dog)" anyway. Ebonelm (talk) 22:46, 7 December 2016 (UTC)
 * "nobody"? it's perhaps not so common, but it isn't nobody In ictu oculi (talk) 07:52, 8 December 2016 (UTC)

 * Comment: SMcCandlish moved page English Shepherd to English Shepherd dog earlier this year, referencing "WP:NATURALDAB, WP:PRECISE, WP:RECOGNIZABLE; and English shepherd is sheep herder in English." Tiggerjay (talk) 23:36, 12 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Support, disambiguation not necessary, and even if someone thought Wikipedia had an article about shepherds who are English they would look for "English shepherd" with a small s. Siuenti (talk) 21:08, 13 December 2016 (UTC)
 * Support per nomination and WP:CONCISE. Timmyshin (talk) 11:37, 17 December 2016 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

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title: Talk:English Shepherd


text:
Talk:Pointer (dog breed)

Old Spanish Pointer
Someone needs to make a wiki-page for the Old Spanish pointer. This breed is mentioned as a developing factor in almost every pointing breed yet there is little to no information on it.

Image Change
I have changed the image on the left to the image on the right because I believe that the newer photo is better quality and and a full body shot shows more detail. Any problems?

The image on the right doesn't look like any pointer i have ever seen. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 212.159.23.112 (talk) 18:01, 17 March 2018 (UTC)

Mastiff?
"is a medium to large-sized breed of dog (a Mastiff)"

Maybe I'm just confused because English is not my mother language, but does this sentence claim that the English Pointer is a Mastiff breed?? Because it certainly is NOT! Also, if the sentence claims that a synonyme for "large-sized breed of dog" is Mastiff, that's not true either! There are for example sighthound breeds that are considered large and yet that does not make them Mastiffs... --Canarian (talk) 16:04, 19 February 2019 (UTC)
 * Hello, that statement is definitely incorrect and I have removed it. Kind regards, Cavalryman V31 (talk) 19:19, 20 February 2019 (UTC).

Is this an encyclopaedic article... ?
... or a sales brochure for a down-south breeder ?

Gosh, they sound all cute and cuddly lying there on the sofa...

And by golly, y’all better exercise them big fellas reg’lar, y’unnerstan’ ?

For cryin’ in a bucket...

The article doesn’t even explain HOW they hunt and point, or why.

Jimminy crickets... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:44B8:3102:BB00:C100:D1DA:3F8B:4B15 (talk) 07:44, 4 July 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Pointer (dog breed)


text:
Osler's node

Osler's nodes are painful, red, raised lesions found on the hands and feet. They are associated with a number of conditions, including infective endocarditis, and are caused by immune complex deposition. Their presence is one definition of Osler's sign.

Causes
Osler's nodes result from the deposition of immune complexes. The resulting inflammatory response leads to swelling, redness, and pain that characterize these lesions.

The nodes are commonly indicative of subacute bacterial endocarditis. 10–25% of endocarditis patients will have Osler's nodes. Other signs of endocarditis include Roth's spots and Janeway lesions. The latter, which also occur on the palms and soles, can be differentiated from Osler's nodes because they are non-tender.

Osler's nodes can also be seen in
 * Systemic lupus erythematosus
 * Marantic endocarditis
 * Disseminated gonococcal infection
 * Distal to infected arterial catheter

Etymology
Osler's nodes are named after Sir William Osler who described them in the early twentieth century. He described them as "ephemeral spots of a painful nodular erythema, chiefly in the skin of the hands and feet."

title: Osler's node


text: User talk:12.11.94.143

title: User talk:12.11.94.143


text:
Talk:Foxhound

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 30 September 2020 and 11 December 2020. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Vpritchard.

Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 21:44, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Jake!
Should it say something on here that Jake from Dog's Life is a Foxhound, or am I going a bit too mad on Dog's Life? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Melon247 (talk • contribs) 19:49, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

 * In my view, Jake is not terribly notable and will soon be be forgotten. Ruby, Ranter, Ringwood, and Bellman are foxhounds whose fame has lasted, but they also aren't essential to our article on the breed. Moonraker2 (talk) 22:55, 21 October 2009 (UTC)

Purchase
On September 11th 2013 The British Ministry of Defence (MOD) announced the purchase of a further 25 Foxhounds to bring the number up to 400. acorn897Acorn897 (talk) 16:04, 19 September 2013 (UTC)

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Respiratory disease section is odd
The section on “Respiratory disease in foxhounds” describes a single outbreak of TB at one kennel, and doesn’t cover the more general section title. 2602:252:D1D:DB70:5D44:C0DA:3C65:B3F (talk) 03:04, 11 December 2021 (UTC)

title: Talk:Foxhound


text:
Talk:Clumber Spaniel

Vulnerable Native Breed
This breed is classed in Britain as a VNB - a breed which originated in the UK but now has registration numbers with the Kennel Club of less then 300 puppies per year.

I'm a Canadian teenager on a gap year before Uni and I'm really interested in this. Would anyone like a VNB paragraph/link on this page? I can write it, but am ignorant about formatting etc. Plus, I'm trying to put together a whole collection on all 29 breeds on this list, including history and so on, using Wikipedia as one of my many sources. If you can help, or are interested at all, please contact me either on my talk page or at green_ied_dragon@hotmail.com

--The Wizard of Magicland 19:43, 10 September 2006 (UTC)

Breeders Websites
Just removed a link to a breeders website. According to the guidance on what types of external links are suitable on wikipedia pages, breeders websites are not permitted. Miyagawa  (talk)  21:02, 15 December 2009 (UTC)

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Talk:Chinook (dog breed)

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title: Talk:Chinook (dog breed)


text:
Talk:Cesky Terrier

Edit conflict
I have noticed an ongoing edit conflict on the Cesky Terrier article over recent months; the page was protected for a short while but fairly promptly after the protection expired, the amendments to the article and external links re-started.

As someone who is not involved in the breed at all, I have tried to re-word the section that seems to be causing the problem in a neutral way and providing what I hope are correct references. As the breed clubs have now been treated as reliable sources within the article, it is not necessary for them to also appear as 'External links'.

I have copied this post on the User Talk pages of the editors/IPs I think are involved in the conflict, in the hope you will all discuss this matter here until consensus can be reached.

SagaciousPhil  -  Chat  14:16, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

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Orbit Attitude and Maneuvering System

The Orbit Attitude and Maneuvering System (OAMS) was a reaction control system used in Earth orbit by the Project Gemini spacecraft. It provided both automatic and manual rotation and translation by means of 16 vernier thrusters using hypergolic propellants.

Operations
The OAMS had 16 small, fixed-position, fixed-thrust rocket engines which burned hypergolic propellants (monomethylhydrazine fuel using nitrogen tetroxide as oxidizer) fed under pressure from a pair of tanks located in the aft Equipment Module. Besides providing attitude control, the OAMS provided for linear up, down, sideways, forward or aft translation of the spacecraft. This gave the spacecraft the capability to change its orbit, required for space rendezvous and docking with another spacecraft, the Agena Target Vehicle. The system was also used to push the spacecraft away from the spent second stage of the Titan II launch vehicle on first reaching orbit.

 * The eight rotational control engines were mounted off the spacecraft's center of mass around the aft section of the Equipment Module, pointed at 90 degree positions up, down, left and right. These were rated at 25 lbf thrust and fired in pairs, causing it to yaw, pitch, or roll to control attitude.
 * Six of the translational control engines were mounted on the side of the Retrorocket Module, near the spacecraft's center of mass. Four of these were rated at 100 lbf thrust, one each pointed up, down, left or right. The other two were pointed forward, at the three o'clock and nine o'clock positions, to provide aft thrust. These were rated at 85 lbf (reduced from the original spec of 100 lbf in July 1962).
 * The two 100 lbf thrust forward translation control engines were mounted on the inside of the aft end of the equipment adapter, at the twelve o'clock and six o'clock positions.

Project Mercury astronauts could only adjust yaw, pitch, or roll, but Gemini crewmen had full manual control over their flight path. Walter Schirra said that on Gemini 6 "I was amazed at my ability to maneuver. I did a fly-around inspection of Gemini 7, literally flying rings around it, and I could move to within inches of it in perfect confidence". Because there is no turbulence in space "It was like the Blue Angels at 18,000 miles per hour, only it was easier".

Events
During Gemini 8, on March 16, 1966, OAMS engine number 8 became stuck on, resulting in uncontrollable spinning of the spacecraft. The entire OAMS had to be shut down and the mission was terminated prematurely. This resulted in modifications to OAMS to permit engine isolation.

title: Orbit Attitude and Maneuvering System


text:
Talk:Bouvier des Flandres

Father Tim's Dog
Not knowing how nor having an inclination to add data to the main page, I would like to suggest an edit to this article. Two series of books by author Jan Karon feature prominently a Bouvier/Wolfhound mix that has caused a renewed interest in the breed. Would it be inappropriate to mention this in the article? An internet search of "father tim's dog" or "the dog barnabas" will tell you more than you need to know - but Barnabas is the reason I am trying to buy a Bouvier today. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.10.205.57 (talk) 16:17, 8 November 2013 (UTC)

POV tag
This concerns POV tag cleanup. Whenever an POV tag is placed, it is necessary to also post a message in the discussion section stating clearly why it is thought the article does not comply with POV guidelines, and suggestions for how to improve it. This permits discussion and consensus among editors. From WP tag policy: '''Drive-by tagging is strongly discouraged. The editor who adds the tag must address the issues on the talk page, pointing to specific issues that are actionable within the content policies, namely Wikipedia:Neutral point of view, Wikipedia:Verifiability, Wikipedia:No original research and Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons. Simply being of the opinion that a page is not neutral is not sufficient to justify the addition of the tag. Tags should be added as a last resort.''' Better yet, edit the topic yourself with the improvements. This statement is not a judgement of content, it is only a cleanup of frivolously and/or arbitrarily placed tags. No discussion, no tag.Jjdon (talk) 22:22, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Dog in Gremlins
There is some disagreement about listing the dog from the film Gremlins as a Bouvier, and here are my reasons for deleting that listing. As the link cited shows, this dog, in real life, is named Mushroom, and has appeared in two films, of which Gremlins is one. I find two sources that seem to me to indicate that Mushroom, while having something of the coat and face of a Bouvier, is a smaller dog, probably more like a terrier. These sources are this one, which states that Mushroom is a terrier mix, and this one, which has a photo that looks like a terrier mix. For these reasons, I'm deleting it again, but if you can provide evidence to the contrary here, I'll happily admit to being wrong. --Tryptofish (talk) 23:12, 29 December 2008 (UTC)

Dog of Flanders Reference, comments by Jim Engel
A Dog of Flandres Jim Engel

In spite of the stupid movie, in spite of all the nonsense that is written, the dog in "A Dog of Flandres" is not a Bouvier des Flandres. This canard seems to regain traction each time another version of the movie is produced.

The simple fact of the matter is that the Bouvier is not and never was a draft dog. In point of actual fact, the “dog of Flandres” was not a Bouvier at all, but a short coated, yellow, bulky dog of the common Belgian draft dog type, now extinct. Justin Chastel, among others, pointed out the differences in the requisite physical structure and temperament; a cattle dog must be quick and agile rather than have the massive and bulky form of the draft dog.

The dog is described thusly: "A dog of Flandres - yellow of hide, large of head and limb, with wolf-like ears that stood erect, and legs bowed and feet widened in the muscular development wrought in his breed by many generations of hard service.  Patrasche came of a race which had toiled hard and cruelly from sire to son in Flandres many a century - slaves of slaves, dogs of the people, beasts of the shafts and harness, creatures that lived straining their sinews in the gall of the cart, and died breaking their hearts on the flints of the streets." The graphics in the books clearly show a short coated dog.

Although the author Marie Louise de la Ramée or "Ouida" was English by birth her Father was French, a culture she closely identified with. She was a political and animal rights activist; and eventually the draft dog function did become illegal in Belgium and the Netherlands.

"A Dog of Flandres" needs to be seen in the context of Belgian history and politics. The Dutch speaking Flemish were always looked down upon by the French segment of the population; a division so deep that there is serious agitation to separate Belgium into Flemish and French independent nations even today. It is thus easy to read this book as propaganda directed against the cruel and heartless Flemish portrayed in their treatment of the boy Nello and his unfortunate dog.

Angel's Lair

http://www.angelplace.net/Angel/DogOfFlandres.htm — Preceding unsigned comment added by 66.117.187.100 (talk) 01:51, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

 * The page currently says: "... is often asserted to be a Bouvier des Flandres." It seems to me that this does convey some doubt. Should we expand upon that? --Tryptofish (talk) 15:10, 27 December 2011 (UTC)

Accurateness of temperament section
I re-added the unsourced material box for three reasons:
 * it was removed for no apparent reason at 01:58, 14 November 2012 by 68.120.80.60
 * the section still does not cite any references
 * the information on dominance is highly disputed.

The dominance, blanket-covering theory over everything that owners call problem behaviours is believed to be inaccurate. Many behaviour specialists believe that motivation for dog behaviour cannot be fully explained by dominance/submissive theory. Importantly, this myth means that dog trainers and owners try to correct the "dominance" behaviour in ways which may be dangerous to the owners, may be damaging to the dog and may potentiate the problem. Old behaviour theories concentrated on dominance but modern theories stray away from it, in many situations. Any chance of some experts re-writing this with modern sources or removal of this unsourced information? Earl Moss (talk) 17:35, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

Thought I would quickly find some info to back me up. I unbiasly searched "dog dominance theory" and then biasly picked some that I thought looked relevant (hopefully the articals/websites are not bais but feel free to make up your own mind, if choose to look at them). Earl Moss (talk) 18:02, 11 March 2013 (UTC)
 * http://www.dogwise.com/authpub/dominancetheory_excerpt.pdf
 * http://www.whole-dog-journal.com/issues/14_12/features/Alpha-Dogs_20416-1.html
 * http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/05/090521112711.htm
 * http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1207/s15327604jaws0704_7

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 * I had to revert the second one. --Tryptofish (talk) 19:20, 24 July 2017 (UTC)

Description section
not particularly neutral, is it? Wikipedia Wonderful 698-D (talk) 07:00, 24 March 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Bouvier des Flandres


text:
Talk:Tornjak

Grammar
The text could do with some work on its Grammar. I do understand that the author might not have English as a primary language but perhaps someone could clean it up a little bit. A lot of the text refers to the dogs in a singular form rather than in a plural form (Ie "The dog has" rather than "The dogs have") and a few errors like that. The text is readable, however. 121.45.225.252 (talk) 00:33, 18 November 2010 (UTC)

Quantitative descriptive information
Can someone add some quantitative descriptive information, e.g., height, weight, life span. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

- The height is about 70cm for dogs, 60-65cm for bitches. Weight of adult male between 45 and 55 kilos, females around 35 kilos.

- Have added heights from the FCI standard but it doesn't contain weights. PutTheKettleOn (talk) 15:52, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

TORNJAK HISTORY
Bosnian Tornjak

Tornjak belongs to a family Canis familiaris matris optimale which dates back from 2000 years before the new age. The center of origin of this breed is the Caucasus region as well as eastern Caucasus. Today, sheepdog "tornjak" and all breed related to him exist in south-eastern Europe.

Tornjak is a dog from Bosnia and Herzegovina, with dominant region of breeding located in large mountainous areas of Vlašić in central part of the country. The first written record of this dog and its body measures and characteristics at this region date from the year 1067. The name "tornjak" comes from the word "tor" which is an expression used to describe enclosure space, intended for sheep-holding under a clear sky, during the mountain pasture season.

This breed has existed in Bosnia and Herzegovina for the past thousand years, and it can be proven with written documents. At this time the tornjak was registered under the name Kanis montanus. Which translates to mountain dog. But the local people gave it the name tornjak (tor: enclosure for sheep, and cattle). Tornjak was registered as autochthonous breed on May 9, 1981 with the name "Bosnian-Herzegovinian sheepdog - tornjak."At that time Yugoslavian pedigree was opened for the tornjak. A judge commission was formed with the goal to do everything needed for the standard of the breed and it's recognition with the FCI as an autochthonous breed with the above mentioned name. The standard was done on 10.05.1990 in Travnik (a town in central Bosnia).

http://www.google.de/imgres?imgurl=http://www.bhtornjak.com/en/photos/tornjaks3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.bhtornjak.com/en/&usg=__FaS4onER2Pdlte0DbraBxAcLGCQ=&h=480&w=640&sz=39&hl=de&start=6&sig2=SZQOCSxkcasVIDkUJ-Phig&um=1&itbs=1&tbnid=GhCVFjysz-l9QM:&tbnh=103&tbnw=137&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dtornjak%2BHistory%26um%3D1%26hl%3Dde%26tbs%3Disch:1&ei=6t3vS6W0EouGmwOj5tz0Cw

--92.231.251.175 (talk) 12:00, 16 May 2010 (UTC)

Tornjak
I think it was a good idea to revise the page. Good work!!!!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.179.69.33 (talk) 21:12, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

why is the text that it is a Croatian mountain dog? as such he is referred to only by the Croats, and is nowhere recognized--85.179.72.70 (talk) 19:07, 19 May 2010 (UTC)

 * The name Croation mountain dog is on the FCI factsheet "Tornjak (Bosnian and Herzegovinian - Croatian Shepherd dog) PutTheKettleOn (talk) 15:49, 20 May 2024 (UTC)

Tornjak
http://www.ljutibosanci.com/bosna/autohtone-pasmine.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.226.58.76 (talk) 13:17, 22 May 2010 (UTC)

History of the dog
The history of Torniac or Tornjak dog

The Torniac dog belongs to the rare endangered breeds. The name comes from the fact that he returned the lost sheep, turned them over. These Torniac dogs are thought to have existed in the area around the Dinaric Alps, especially in the densely populated region of bilingual Vlachs (near the town of Travnik, Bosnia and Herzegovina). The dogs were used in Vlachs' transhumance in Western Balkans. The name may be from the most well-known Proto-Romanian word: torna. From the famous expression: Torna, torna, fratre. The story of the expression is told by the monk and chronicler Theophanes the Confessor (752-817) in his work entitled "Chronography" Today, the Vlachs of Bosnia or Croatia have forgotten their mother tongue and have no organization to protect their heritage, so the race was registered by the Slavs in Croatia. 109.166.139.130 (talk) 01:51, 14 April 2022 (UTC)

Banned in Denmark?
It looks like the link for them being banned in Denmark is no longer active

I'm mostly just curious why they're banned but don't particularly have the bandwidth to go looking for a source RC3141 (talk) 21:11, 2 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tornjak


text:
Talk:Bluetick Coonhound

Needs polishing
The Appearance section reads more like a pet selection guide than an encyclopedia. Needs some work. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.181.115.4 (talk) 20:57, 3 June 2008 (UTC)

You have to remember Wikipedia is edited by amateurs and pet owners. As a child I knew several 'hound dog men' with decades of experience but they never had time to fool with internet sites! White Arabian mare (talk) 18:55, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Micky Jack
Why does it say Micky Jack? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 161.98.6.227 (talk) 20:24, 24 September 2010 (UTC)

Micky Jack? Where is that coming from? White Arabian mare (talk) 18:52, 15 August 2015 (UTC)

Red tick hound
Is the redtick hound just a variety of bluetick coonhound? --Bejnar (talk) 18:44, 16 April 2012 (UTC)
 * It is a stand-alone breed. See American English Coonhound.  Pinethicket (talk) 18:59, 16 April 2012 (UTC)

Darker Blueticks
Has anybody else noticed that the Blueticks now are much darker than in years past? The older dogs had separate, distinct ticks but now the ticks are so close together that they are blurred and make the whole coat look navy blue. White Arabian mare (talk) 18:10, 16 August 2015 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Bluetick Coonhound


text:
Talk:Barbet (dog breed)

Tone
the tone, particularly in the "History" and "Current status" sections, is distinctively enthusiastic and advocative ("help us get it recognized!"). Circeus (talk) 18:10, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
There is a move discussion in progress on Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Dogs which affects this page. Please participate on that page and not in this talk page section. Thank you. —RMCD bot 05:45, 17 June 2014 (UTC)

Bwierc (talk) 08:40, 9 January 2017 (UTC) Most of the information in article are obsolete and not supported by any sources, like statistics (population size/average heights), health issues (ears infections/hips) and history. Those sections need total overhaul.
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made.  JTP ( talk • contribs) 15:25, 9 January 2017 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 July 2017
Chillidobe (talk) 01:15, 23 July 2017 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format. jd22292 (Jalen D. Folf) (talk) 01:23, 23 July 2017 (UTC)

Move discussion in progress
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title: Talk:Barbet (dog breed)


text:
Talk:Azawakh

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 1 September 2021 and 20 December 2021. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Barberla13.

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Update?
Somebody needs to update the article. The Azawakh is already recognized by the American Kennel Club in the Hound Group. There was one at the National Dog Show earlier today.

Untitled
The article is factual and omits discussions of the controversy surrounding the standard definition of an azawakh, it presents information about the standard from both sides of the azawakh controversy.(Europeans vs Americans or Defined Standard vs Natural Standard) The azawakh has only been introduced in Europe in the last 20-30 years and as such has a spectrum of variable phenotypes. France is admitedly the nation with one of the biggest populations of Azawakhs outside of Africa and they are thus a powerful force behind the recognition of the Azawakh as a breed. In fact, the FCI recognizes the Azawakh, while the AKC is only in the process of certifying the breed (they need several generations of American-bred pedigrees to do so). Building on the strength of their breeding program, a group of Azawakh French breeders has decided to define what are the acceptable traits for the Azawakh breed. There is a heated debate as to the true motives behind this choice, but I won't get into that. On the other hand, the American Azawakh Association has taken another stance, they want to define the breed in terms of the naturally occuring phenotypes (coat colors and markings). The French stance on coat colors and markings is in keeping with the historical inclination of European breeders to want to create a uniform and optimal standard, but creating a uniform standard is by no mean the apriori right thing to do.

 * Isn't a priori categorization/standardization at the root of all breeds of dog? After all, the only reason we use different terms to identify different groups of dogs is to organize them by characteristic, whether those be phenotypal or not. I am having a hard time really understanding this NPOV claim. In the article it mentions the FCI as providing one standard... if you believe there is another valid standard, then by all means, feel free to edit it. Im removing this one from the list. Flying Hamster 05:24, 21 October 2006 (UTC)

Is this breed the 'Wuolo' dog mentioned in Roots or is it another? Mali is the closest of countries with a specific breed listed. Cole 12:38, 31 July 2007 (UTC)

 * The article could use a new image. The dog in the picture currently used appears starved, and doesn't define the colors very well.--67.164.222.223 (talk) 07:41, 26 November 2008 (UTC)

What subspecies is this?
Is it a Canis lupus familiaris or a Canis lupus dingo? Readers of this article want to know. Chrisrus (talk) 04:22, 15 May 2010 (UTC)

Assessment comment
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title: Talk:Azawakh


text:
Talk:Australian Terrier

Wrong data
Most Wiki articles on dogs get their data from the race standard (or articles that do) but as any dog owner would know they are often very wrong. Judges often judge on size so in the case of the Australian Terrier the size and weight is way wrong. I personally know three professional breeders and the average weight is approx. 30-50% higher than the race standard says even though these are breeders trying to get back to race standard. Most bitches are 8-10 kilos and I have never seen a "~6.5 kilograms" Australian Terrier no matter the gender. But the question is do Wiki show "race standard" or "real life standard" on dogs? Finding sources on both is easy but the breed standard is of course mentioned the most, even though it is wrong. I'm not sure what the best approach to fix this is without having to add multiple viewpoints to all dog articles. Thoughts?

Dustie (talk) 11:48, 9 June 2021 (UTC)

DMOZ/Open Directory Project
Place club links, kennel links, rescue information links, and other breed-specific informative links on DMOZ at www.dmoz.org/Recreation/Pets/Dogs/Breeds/Terrier_Group/Australian_Terrier/, not in the Wikipedia article "External links" section. Instructions for submitting links are on the DMOZ page.

Australian terrier or?
Possible issue with having this article and Australian silky terrier article? SatuSuro 14:20, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

 * What would the issue be? They are described as different breeds in the Australian silky terrier article.--Hafwyn (talk) 18:52, 8 March 2009 (UTC)

Removed 'Aussie terrier named Harriet' from the caption of corresponding picture; re-captione dto 'Young Australian Terrier' as more appropriate (versus 'Aussie'), and really, no one cares of the dog's name.65.215.94.13 (talk) 17:14, 8 April 2009 (UTC)

See Also "They are not cuddly nor are they friendly". This information has no citation and there are or will be issues arising with this statement and cannot be considered a "true" statement regarding the temperament of the Aussie i.e., the Australian Terrier on the Australian website states that they are good with children and are great family dogs and are very loyal! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.168.209.195 (talk) 05:58, 17 May 2009 (UTC)

I agree with the above comment, and have removed the statement. There was also no reference to it in the assigned footnote. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chuck in MA (talk • contribs) 17:44, 22 August 2009 (UTC)

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Substituted at 08:39, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Australian Terrier


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Talk:American Water Spaniel

Untitled
I included a photo of the entire dog, head to tail from the side. Also, I think there is an inaccuracy in the history. According to Paul Morrison (source at the bottom of the page--I don't know how to do footnotes), Doc Pfeiffer believed the AWS was the product of Curley Coated retrievers mixed with Field Spaniels. Pfeiffer did not deny the presence of Irish Water Spaniel blood, but he thought it had been added during the 1920s--looking at one of the surviving lines would seem to confirm this. Awsguy1 (talk) 01:35, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

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title: Talk:American Water Spaniel


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Rockefeller Institute

Rockefeller Institute may refer to:

 * The Rockefeller Institute of Government
 * Rockefeller University, previously known as The Rockefeller Institute for Medical Research

title: Rockefeller Institute


text:
Talk:American Hairless Terrier

Please review
I revised the article. Please review and see if the "weasel wording" flag can be lifted. If not, please propose improvements. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 205.174.22.26 (talk) 18:19, 26 September 2011 (UTC)

Assessment comment
Substituted at 07:34, 29 April 2016 (UTC)

title: Talk:American Hairless Terrier


text:
Talk:Alpine Dachsbracke

History
I suspect the information regarding the UKC breed standard is incorrect. The link in the reference is certainly broken. I did update the breed standard link in the info box Jemmaca (talk) 10:18, 19 November 2014 (UTC)

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title: Talk:Alpine Dachsbracke


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User talk:Thebritt

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~ ~ ~. Four tildes (~ ~ ) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
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[[User:Whosyourjudas|Whosyourjudas\talk]] 04:11, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Thebritt


text:
Talk:York Chocolate

Bad links
The wikilinks to chocolate and lavender describing coat colors go to pages describing the food and the plant, respectively. Neither one is particularly illuminating with respect to feline coat coloring. There doesn't seem to be a good page describing either of these colors (Cat coat genetics doesn't really address it) -- should they be de-wikified, or does someone know of a better place to direct them? -- Chalkdusted 06:41, 25 November 2005 (UTC)

 * For dog breeds, we created an article coat (dog) that discusses colors & other aspects of dog coats. Could do the same for cats to be consistent. Elf | Talk 05:00, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

Spam links
the author of this article, is adding poor quality cat breed pages, in order to be able to add links to their own adsense cat site, which is also of poor quality.

No links to this site should be allowed

Stub
I added a lot to the York Chocolate Cat article and removed the stub tag because it is no longer a stub. I also asked about using an image of a York Chocolate here. -- Theunicyclegirl  talk 23:52, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

my cat
Just want to add here that I personally have a york chocolate and these cats are fucking great. he makes for a great lap cat and loves to play 98.192.173.69 (talk) 08:30, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

 * He seems like a wonderful cat 24.107.233.205 (talk) 18:21, 16 May 2024 (UTC)

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Past tense?
Why is this breed referred to in past tense? The WCF still have a standard for it and I don't see any information in the article that the breed has gone extinct. Traumnovelle (talk) 19:47, 23 February 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:York Chocolate


text:
User:James Ostrowski

Welcome!

Hello, and welcome to Wikipedia. Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers: I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! By the way, you can sign your name on Talk and vote pages using three tildes, like this: ~ ~ ~. Four tildes (~ ~ ) produces your name and the current date. If you have any questions, see the help pages, add a question to the village pump or ask me on my Talk page. Again, welcome!
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[[User:Whosyourjudas|Whosyourjudas\talk]] 04:12, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

title: User:James Ostrowski


text:
Talk:Turkish Angora

Stop Vandalism on the Turkish Angora Genetics section
Dodo bird said: Critical claims need better sourcing. Messybeast just repeating unattributed claims and allegations. 2012 study did contain Turkish Turkish Angora. Perceived differences should go in history section

I agree it can go to history section.Ankara Kedisi 12:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Messybeast investigates claims, not repeats. I suppose you are hidden breeder under name Dodo bird! It explains last study conclusions very well WHY American Angoras are DİFFERENT from Turkish.

Dodo bird said: That is not a direct quote from the study. Please add that info in a more appropriate way

Have you read the paper? No? So how do you know??

Quotes from the study:

''All cats were representatives of their breed as found within the USA, except for the Australian Mist Cats and a few Turkish Angora and Turkish Van samples from international submissions.

The Turkish Angora breed was reconstituted from the Persian(European) pedigree post-World Wars, and their genetic diversity has recently been supplemented via outcrossing to Turkish random-bred cats. The identified subpopulations within the breed may reflect the latest influx of random-bred cats.

When analysed with data from SNPs and STRs, the Turkish Angora was assigned to Europe or to the Eastern Mediterranean''

She means Turkish imports were assigned to Eastern Mediterranean while American Angoras- Europe.--Ankara Kedisi 09:19, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

When SNP and STR results were compared through Bayesian assignment, the Turkish Angora was assigned to Europe or the Eastern Mediterranean respectively,

again repeats same --Ankara Kedisi 09:19, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

More recent breeds, such as the Ragdoll and Bengal, are resolved as separate breed populations, suggesting STRs alone can differentiate about 24 of 29 breeds, in addition to Turkish- versus USA-originating Turkish Angoras. At K = 17, SNPs could separate Birman from other Asiatic breeds but not the Singapura. Thus, both sets of markers provide valuable insight into the relationship of the breeds.

Those sentences are from the same study! Variation of cats under domestication: genetic assignment of domestic cats to breeds and worldwide random-bred populations. Anim. Genet. 2012 Nov 22 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23171373 --Ankara Kedisi 09:20, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

 * The latest genetic study confirmed that ″Turkish- versus USA-originating Turkish Angoras are resolved as separate breed populations″
 * This bolded part is not a direct quote from the study. As anyone can see if they compare it to the section you presented above. Like I said in the edit summary "Please add that info in a more appropriate way". I am not against adding that info. You just cannot take bits and pieces and put them as one quote.
 * She means Turkish imports were assigned to Eastern Mediterranean while American Angoras- Europe.
 * This is wrong. They group to Eastern Mediterranean when analysed using STR and grouped to Europe when analyzed using SNP. (See table 3s, or just note the word "respectively") There is no information on the Angora subgroups.

You are wrong there is a word subgroup mentioned later. They analysed both STR and other methods,and results were no different.Ankara Kedisi 12:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)
 * Others can weigh in on whether Messybeast is reliable enough for those claims. As I stated in the edit summary(that you presented here), she wrongly claims that only US Angoras are used in the 2012 study. As you have shown, the study involved Turkish-originating Turkish Angoras. --Dodo bird (talk) 10:05, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

This is correct some Turkish imports were in study in 2012 (but ignored in 2007). I removed that part as it was confusing.Ankara Kedisi 12:21, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Persuan cats exust in persia iran.mirecthan 3000 years.while turkey is a country less than hundred if years becMe turkey from east roman empire .hiw persuan druved from angora ?thus page us another panturkish lue fir stilling other nations things. Bahmanrajabiun (talk) 15:45, 20 August 2017 (UTC)

Are you blind or you haven't read an original scientific study?
It is the direct quote from the study can't you see? It talks about the Ragdoll AND Bengal cats as distinct breed and then additionally mentions the same goes for the Turkish and USA Angoras, please don't twist words here. It's clearly written. This bolded part IS a direct quote from the study. Do you want ı can send a paper for you to see?

I took many quotes which speak the similar things. You just ignored them. There is information about the subgroups - are you blind? It says some Angoras were categorized AS Mediterranean and some as European. This means they are DİFFERENT breeds! You can NOT be both at the same time!

Yes, mostly USA Angoras were used, but a FEW came from Turkey too. And those cats turned out are very different breed from USA pedigreed Angoras.

Do not argue with genetic data and try to make up your own conclusions here. You obviously have a vested interest in this topic. Are you somehow related with Turkish Angora breeders? Like mentioning Turkish Van and Angora are two different breeds we have a right to mention that the Angoras from USA are different from Turkish cats too. --Ankara Kedisi 11:16, 3 April 2013 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ankarakediler (talk • contribs)

''The Turkish Angora breed was reconstituted from the Persian(European) pedigree post-World Wars, and their genetic diversity has recently been supplemented via outcrossing to Turkish random-bred cats. The identified subpopulations within the breed may reflect the latest influx of random-bred cats''

IDENTİFİED SUBPOPULATİONS - do you see this Dodo bird? The geneticists mean existing differences are due to recent imports - those few Turkish cats which were studied together with the American Turkish Angoras. Interesting when its mentioned that the Turkish Angora breed in America ″was reconstituted from the Persian″, trying to explain its European origins... --Ankara Kedisi 11:23, 3 April 2013 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ankarakediler (talk • contribs)

 * You've accused me of vandalism, not reading the study, being a breeder(as if that means anything) and called me blind(oh the irony). All while failing to understand something as simple as how quotations work. Seriously, go fuck yourself. I'm done here.--Dodo bird (talk) 12:03, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

How quotations work? I am asking once again have you seen the whole study not only abstract I link to? I did, this is where quotes come from. You ignore don't read and misinterpret. Everything is said so clearly but you refuse to see this. What can I say, better get something else to do instead of removing the content which has sources from the scientific study - it's not something you can agree or not - the data shows these are different breed, so be it. Being a breeder doesn't make you a bad person, but certainly a biased editor.Ankara Kedisi 12:10, 3 April 2013 (UTC)  — Preceding unsigned comment added by Ankarakediler (talk • contribs)

Ankara Zoo in 1917?
Ankara Zoo was established in 1933 according to official site http://www.ankarazoo.gov.tr (in Turkish only) However, in article it was said that: "In 1917, The Government of Turkey in conjunction with the Ankara Zoo began a meticulous breeding program..." Furthermore, the given reference for this sentence does not contain this information at all. 88.230.215.25 (talk) 21:46, 3 June 2009 (UTC) A. Bölme

Personality
This article completes neglects the characteristics of this breed's personality traits. For example, certain breeds bond with one owner. Certain breeds are extremely sensitive or moody. Certain breeds don't really bond with any owner and prefer their own independence. From what I have heard, the Turkish cats bond with one single owner and prefer a very close relationship.

Their personality traits are a very important part of the breed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.17.65.14 (talk) 01:25, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Some remarks
Mu5ti 11:42, Jan 3, 2005 (UTC) Ankara Cats doesn't have odd eyes. Van cats have. <-- wrong, they may have, it happens often for white ankara cats (C. Arnoux)
 * I thought about and decided against moving this page under the title of "Ankara cat" for the simple reason that Google gave 28,200 hits for "Turkish Angora", and 173 hits for "Ankara cat". So, Turkish Angora it is. Ankara cat redirects, and there's also a link from Angora.
 * British Angora cat is not related to the Angora Cat (also known as "Turkish Angora", "Ankara cat", etc.). It is a man-made breed originated in Britain in mid 20th century, based on Java/Bali cats.
 * I completely agree with all of the behavioral characteristics - my cat exhibits every one! --JTA 16:52, 24 June 2006 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:ErnstStavroBlofeld.jpg
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BetacommandBot (talk) 06:53, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

Swimming
If swimming is one of the important characteristics of this breed, the article would benefit from a photo of one of these cats enjoying being wet. --Una Smith (talk) 04:03, 10 November 2008 (UTC)

Better Picture
Can we not get a better headline picture? It looks like a stray in between coats and it looks awful. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.232.81.41 (talk) 17:12, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
 * File:Agora_green.jpg I just adjusted a better one. (Yezdannuri (talk) 11:43, 20 April 2011 (UTC)).

Genetics study
Please stop reverting each other and start using this talk page to argue your position. If you keep this up both of you will can be blocked for Edit warring.--Dodo bird (talk) 02:41, 1 June 2012 (UTC)

Genetics of Turkish Angora cats
The following section is an interpretation of scientific study, using evidence from the The ascent of cat breeds: Genetic evaluations of breeds and worldwide random-bred populations''. This interpretation does not appear to agree with the publication. Phylogenetic trees do NOT show that anything is "more related" than any other breed, it only shows the origin of the gene pool overall.

Yes, this is correct, it shows the origin of the Turkish Angora being more North African and having influence from western cat breeds. Why play with words? Phylogenetic trees only show similarities of origin, rather than genetic relation, calling into question the interpretation that the Turkish Angora is "more related" to any particular breed of cat.'' Similarities or relation, but origin shown in phylogenetic tree is North African. Why Turkish street cats which are in separated branch with İsreal, but not with Turkish Angora. Isn't Angora a cat breed originated in Turkey? The paper itself states that North African, Tunisian cats as well breed Egyptian Mau have strong connection to Western cats)--Ankara Kedisi 05:54, 1 June 2012 (UTC).

Removed genetics attack subsection
I removed the entire following attack subsection from the "Genetics" section:

If anything like this, scrubbed of attack language, is reinserted, it needs reliable sources. If material in the extant "Genetics" section is disputed, then remove it and hash out the disputes here. — SMcCandlish Talk⇒ ɖ⊝כ⊙þ Contrib.  03:32, 13 February 2013 (UTC)

Popular culture
Why "In popular culture" section is removed from the article? Joe feyzullah (talk) 18:54, 2 November 2018 (UTC)

What is the price of the cat
Hi 103.115.195.13 (talk) 08:33, 28 May 2022 (UTC)

Excess of images?
As per MOS:IMAGERELEVANCE Sankofa Chiswick (talk) 10:30, 30 November 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Turkish Angora


text:
Antonio de la Torre (footballer, born 1977)

Antonio de la Torre García (born November 18, 1977,) is a Mexican-American former soccer defender, who recently played for the Atlanta Silverbacks of the USL First Division. De la Torre holds dual citizenship in Mexico and the United States.

Before joining MLS, de la Torre played most of his career in Mexico's Primera A, the second division. He played for Atlante F.C. in the Primera Division.

He joined MLS for the 2004 season, signing with the Colorado Rapids, and immediately impressed with his offensive abilities. Unlike most American defenders, de la Torre was a danger going forward from his right back position, and finished the season with five assists in 28 starts. However, near the end of the season, coach Tim Hankinson grew tired of de la Torre's defensive failures, and benched him for the playoffs.

Following the end of the season, de la Torre was exposed for the 2004 MLS Expansion Draft, where he was selected fifth overall by C.D. Chivas USA, but was cut before the season. He signed with Atlanta soon after.

De la Torre's father, Antonio de la Torre Villalpando, played in Mexico during the 70's and 80's, and appeared for Mexico during the 1978 World Cup tournament. His uncle, "Chepo", is the head coach of CD Guadalajara of the Primera División de México, actually he works as a construction worker in Atlanta and RETO