text:
Talk:Halaib Triangle

Name
I've changed the representation of the name from Ḥalā'ib/حلائب to Ḥalāyib/حلايب thruout (with two exceptions explained below). I carry out research in the area, & locals use the form Ḥalāyib & do not recognise the version with the glottal stop/hamzah as correct. Further, the Egyptian government uses this spelling, as does the Sudanese. Most likely the spelling with an apostrophe/hamzah comes from a recognition that an intervocalic glottal stop often becomes /j/ in Egyptian & Sudanese colloquial dialects. The Hala'ib form is, then, hypercorrection. It does appear in some Arabic sources, but not generally in government sources (zero Sudanese state documents turn up for a حلائب Google search, & only one Egyptian state document), &, as already mentioned, it is rejected by locals. Further, this brings us in line with Arabic Wikipedia, which uses the (correct) form حلايب.

This is not an established place name in English. This is not a matter of retaining consistency with other English-language sources. In fact, of the two news stories quoted in the article, one spells the triangle "Halaib", the other "Halayeb". (In both cases, a previous editor had modified direct quotations to "Hala'ib". I have changed the spelling in both cases to reflect the original source.) Neither original uses the apostrophe.

Ultimately, I would like to move this page to Halayib Triangle. Pathawi (talk) 23:09, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

Pathawi Dear User, if you are from Arabic origin, we can discuss it as you want, but the majority of the worldwide websites call it Halayeb. Best regards, Abd Elamid Elsayed Abdelhamidelsayed (talk) 19:54, 10 November 2020 (UTC)abdelhamidelsayed
 * For anyone following this, Abd Elamid has moved the conversation to my talk page. Pathawi (talk) 20:49, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Why? Discussions such as this shpuld not be decided elsewhere, in private, a consensus needs to be found here, on the article's talk page. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:27, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I had not been thinking of my talk page as private, as anyone can access it, but you're right that it would have been better to have the conversation here or on Halayib's talk page. Part of the problem was that this reflects multiple edits on multiple related pages. I had replied to Abd Elamid's comments on Halayib's talk page, but he then replied more substantively on my personal page. I was trying to consolidate conversation locations, and thus opted for the most recent location of substantive comment. I made a poor call: I wasn't trying to make the conversation in any way private. Pathawi (talk) 21:43, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Why not copy the discussion from there to here? As long as the other editor agrees, and you clearly mark where it came from and when it starts and stops, there should be no problem. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:46, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * That conversation follows, with additional indentation, and with contact information eliminated. (Abd Elhamid: Feel free to replace that contact info. I removed it in case you were under the impression that my talk page was invisible to others.) Pathawi (talk) 21:56, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

Discussion copied from User talk:Pathawi

 * Halayeb triangle and Halayeb city. Dear Pathawi, We do not have to fight about Halayeb, because I speak Arabic and English fluently, being from Arabic ancestry (exactly from Egypt and my mother is from the Halayeb triangle) and I have been living in USA from 1998 (which means I speak excellent English).Beside that the major websites worldwide call it Halayeb. Feel free to contact me at ————— or if you live in USA at —————.Also on Whatsapp. Best regards, Abd Elhamid Elsayed

 * Abd Elhamid: A disagreement isn't a fight! But you'll have to excuse me: I'm sure you speak excellent Arabic, but that doesn't mean that you have a good knowledge of Romanisation, nor that you've read the Manual of Style. I strongly suggest you check out the link I posted on the Halayib Talk page. Then we may have something to discuss! Take care. Pathawi (talk) 19:47, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Pathawi : can we talk by phone.I was born in the Halayeb triangle, my mother is from there and my father is from northern Egypt. —————.
 * Best regards.

 * Abdelhamidelsayed (talk) 20:06, 10 November 2020 (UTC)abdelhamidelsayed

 * Hi, . I know this wasn't intentional, but please don't edit other people's messages on Talk pages. I'm in the Sudan right now, so an international call really isn't very viable. Plus, I think it's best to solve these things within Wikipedia, so that other editors can follow what happened: This isn't a dispute between you and me—it's an issue for a collective encyclopædia. Have you read the Manual of Style page on Arabic that I directed you to? If so, do you think I'm misinterpreting something? Pathawi (talk) 20:47, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * You wrote:
 * Please be informed that the name of many geographical areas in the Arabic countries have been published with the most known word in English, for example : Cairo, is in Arabic (Alqaheera) and another version is (Alkaheera).The first one is more near to the Arabic pronunciation, I can go on with hundred of examples. Be informed that the Arabic language has more sounds compared to the English language ( ح خ ع غ )sounds and lacks some sounds like (v). Please, I want to get an agreement as soon as possible regarding the name of Halayeb being my birth place and regarding the unsubstantiated information about the rebels that are willing to proclaim a new country in the Halayeb triangle, do you think, if they get to the light, they would have any chance against the dictatorship in Egypt? My last visit to Egypt was in 2010 and from that date and after my political views came to the the knowledge of the dictatorship regime, I was informed that I will be arrested the moment I touch the Egyptian soil. I can express my opinion, freely here in USA without fear, while the movement is secret in Egypt, and only one member beside me is in the USA, and he is my link to the people there.

 * So please, allow me to revert the name to Halayeb and the information and do not block me (you personally) or report me or block me in Wikipedia, if you have more power than me, please.

 * It is my area and my only interest in Wikipedia. Thank you, Best regards Abd Elhamid Elsayed

 * Abdelhamidelsayed (talk) 21:12, 10 November 2020 (UTC)abdelhamidelsayed
 * I don't think that you've read the page I've asked you to read from the Manual of Style. Again, it's this one: WP:MOSAR. You are correct that we use Cairo. Check out Naming conventions (use English). Basically, there are two guidelines: First, if there is one established name in English, use that. Thus, we use Cairo, Germany, China instead of *al-Qāhirah, *Deutschland, or *Zhōngguó. However, if there is no established name used in English, we use an established systematic transliteration. The MOS page I directed you to gives the Wikipedia standard for Arabic. We moved Halayib from *Hala'ib precisely because there was no established name in use and that transliteration was incorrect. On-line, you will find "Halayib", "Halayeb", and "Hala'ib". Given this diversity, it seems that the best choice is the "established systematic transliteration". Please read those pages. Pathawi (talk) 21:33, 10 November 2020 (UTC)

 * == Sorry ==

 * Sorry for the mistake, but I asked you kindly to not revert it, and you did, I am not willing to get into a fight through the internet, I am going to revert it again, it has been like this for more than a decade, I asked politely, you could have messaged me, before reverting it, beside that, with all the explanation that I gave you, you dump all my evidences and revert it.
 * If your English is 100 %, your Arabic as you say, can't compete with my Arabic, knowing that my English is 90% compared to you. it is a fact of sounds and phonetics.
 * Beside that you are in Sudan, get to a Sudanese and ask him to pronounce the word Halayeb ten time and then another guy and then another guy and then make your mind. The manual cannot apply to a language that is governed by a Holy book the QURAN, that only the very able in that language understand it after repeated reading.
 * And still, I am ready to have a discussion about such manual but our messages have to be moved to a normal mail server to make it easier to exchange our ideas, please contact me at
 * ————— or by written messages at Whatsapp number —————.

 * Please do not revert Halayeb again, it has been like this more than a decade, and the web cites it more as Halayeb, compared to Halayib, till we get a common agreement between all people involved about it.
 * Best regards,
 * Abdelhamidelsayed (talk) 21:45, 10 November 2020 (UTC)abdelhamidelsayed

 * END OF COPIED DISCUSSION

The article should never have been moved away from Hala'ib Triangle in the first place

 * Google hits:
 * "Halayib" - 28,900
 * "Halayeb" - 60,100
 * "Hala'ib" - 2,370,000

My conclusion is that should never have moved the article away from "Hala'ib Triangle". WP:COMMONNAME calls for the subject's common name as used in English. Local names should only be considered when there is no English-language name, so Anthony's rationale for the move was mistaken.

Anthony, given these facts, can you please move the article back to where it was for 9 years before you moved it? Or, at least tell me you have no objections, and i'll move it back. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:35, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * ✅ Anthony Appleyard (talk) 22:12, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for the fast action! Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:17, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I know that the above comments are addressed specifically to Anthony Appleyard, but I made the request for the move, so I thought it wouldn't be inappropriate to comment. The naming convention policy at WP:USEENGLISH says that established names such as one would find in a reliable source are to be preferred. I know we all know what that means, but the page specifies "for example other encyclopedias and reference works, scholarly journals, and major news sources". Google hits are an indicator, but as a source in and of themselves they're a problem: Nine years of Wikipedia's using the spelling with the apostrophe has led to its proliferation on-line, in no small part through mirrors or partial mirrors. I think, also, that the numbers you've got are a little off: Searching for hala'ib without quotes also returns everything for "halayib", "halayeb", "halaib", and a bunch of other stuff, as Google tries to correct a searcher's weird spelling. The unquote version gives me the 2.31 million number that you're getting. Beyond this, I can't reproduce your results. If I put the terms in quotes, I get:
 * "hala'ib": 161,000
 * "halayeb": 276,000
 * "halayib": 29,300
 * "halaib": 89,500
 * In print sources, I don't know how to gauge the currency of the different uses: None of them gives anything in a Google Ngram search, which is itself suggestive. In Google Scholar, "Halayib" turns up 119 hits, "Halayeb" 289, "Hala'ib" 236, "Halaib" 890. That doesn't seem like a cut and dry case to me for the prevalence of "Hala'ib" in reliable sources: If anything, it takes second place to Abd Elamin's preferred "Halayeb" in general Internet usage and to "Halaib" in scholarly work. Looking at the sources I have PDFs of, "Halayib" appears in the English version of the last Sudanese census. "Halayeb" appears in Lonely Planet Egypt. "Hala'ib" doesn't appear in anything I've got. "Halaib"—to my surprise—actually appears in several articles and books, including an article on Ababda history, the Handbook of Ancient Nubia, A History of the Beja Tribes, an ethnography on Beja people entitled Responsible Man, and a couple other Beja ethnographic articles. When we lack an established name, WP:USEENGLISH suggests going to an established system of Romanisation. The clear choice here would have been Halayib, as I proposed, but I had not searched for or given serious consideration to "Halaib" before I tried to figure out the results of your search.
 * I do not think it was a mistake to move this page, tho in reviewing the academic sources I now think that I may have been mistaken in my proposed target. I wish there had been more time for discussion. Pathawi (talk) 22:34, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Why would you put the phrase in quotes? It skews the results. Rechecking my results:
 * Halayib with no quote marks - 29,800
 * Halayeb with no quote marks - 74,100
 * Halaib with no quote marks - 108,000
 * Hala'ib with no quote marks - 1,950,000
 * It seems quite clear to me that Hala'ib is the preferred term in English. Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:11, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * The search term ought to be in quotes for two reasons:

 * First, in order to search for the exact phrase, which is what's at question here, rather than everything Google thinks you might have meant to write.

 * Second, because the term in question has an apostrophe in the middle of it. So your first several hundred hits are probably all legitimate, but if you keep digging, you're also getting Wikipedia's page Siege of Baghdad (1258) because it has sources by Fattah Hala and I.B. Tauris. You're getting all kinds of irrelevant junk that has "hala" & "ib" somewhere in the page. This is also counting every single "halaib" hit as a "hala'ib" hit. It's throwing the numbers off wildly. It's simply incorrect.

 * If you want to compare exact phrases—which is what we're doing here—especially when one of them includes punctuation, you've got to put it in quotes. Please check this out if you're doubting me. I'm not skewing the results with quotation marks: I'm correcting them. Pathawi (talk) 23:27, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I see your logic, and it's persuasive.
 * "Halayib" - 29,100
 * "Hala'ib" - 43,300
 * "Halayeb" - 77,000
 * "Halaib" - 90,900
 * So you may be right that "Halaib" should be the title. What if we start an RfC to attract some more editors and see what happens? Beyond My Ken (talk) 23:37, 10 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I support this course of action. Pathawi (talk) 06:49, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

The Name in Arabic is حلايب
Context: Many months ago, I proposed that this article be moved from Hala'ib Triangle to Halayib Triangle. The move was made. That move was reversed within the last twelve hours for reasons that can be found in the discussion above. In reversing that change, all (I think?) occurrences of ‹Halayib› in the article were changed to ‹Hala'ib›. I then changed back only those occurrences which were explicitly transliterations of the Arabic word, rather than uses of an English name. I also changed one occurrence of حلائب to حلايب. The former was added by an editor who was unfamiliar with the Arabic word based on the English name given in this article. I had hoped that these changes would be uncontroversial as they are—I think—matters of fairly straightforward fact. Beyond My Ken reversed those changes. In order to avoid edit warring, I'm explaining my changes here. I won't revert the reversions quickly in case my perception of uncontroversiality is amiss.

Both the Eyptian and Sudanese governments consistently use the spelling حلايب in their materials, with only one Egyptian exception that I was able to find many months ago; that page has since disappeared. For anyone who knows Arabic, I do not think that it is controversial that the Arabic name is حلايب. There is copious evidence on-line, including on our sister Arabic Wikipedia. (The word حلائب does occur in Arabic, so you'll get Google hits, but it does not refer to the city or the Triangle.) If we are transliterating Arabic, the appropriate MOS Romanisation is Ḥalāyib. It is not Ḥalā'ib. I think that this should also be uncontroversial: It is not different from saying that the Pinyin for the Mandarin name of China is "Zhōngguó", not "Qaina" or "China", even tho for obvious reasons we choose to call the page China rather than *Zhongguo.

I understand the desire for consistency within the article. However, I believe that a form of consistency which demands that the representation of the original language (whether in Arabic script or in Romanisation) match the chosen English name is backwards, & in this case leads to multiple inaccuracies.

I would like to:
 * 1) remove the two places where this page asserts that the Arabic name is حلائب, as that's simply false;
 * 2) employ the Romanisation Ḥalāyib when transliterating Arabic (but nowhere else until we have a decision on moving or not moving), as, again, I think that's false; and
 * 3) restore the Romanisation of Egyptian Arabic from "Mosallas Ḥalāyeb" back to "Musallas Ḥalāyib", as the other transliteration is inconsistent & not in keeping with either the MOS or any scholarly materials that I'm aware of. Pathawi (talk) 07:08, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * OK by me. Beyond My Ken (talk) 07:31, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Request for Comment
Should the page Hala'ib Triangle be moved to a new name or left as and where it is? Pathawi (talk) 18:54, 11 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I am not a neutral party in this conversation, but I hope that the above framing of the question is sufficiently neutral. Briefly: The name of the region in question is uncontroversially مثلث حلايب Muthallath Ḥalāyib in Arabic (WP:MOSAR). For many years, the page was at Hala'ib Triangle. Last year, I proposed that it be moved to 'Halayib' and this was done. A couple days ago, it was moved back. In subsequent conversation, I believe that the other editor who called for the return move & I have come to have more similar perspectives; they proposed the RfC. I'll state below what I think the major options & questions are, but I want to be clear that I'm just speaking for myself:
 * I believe that the representation ‹Hala'ib› is in an important sense wrong: The apostrophe is most frequently used in Romanisation of Arabic to represent the glottal stop. There is no such phoneme in this place name.
 * But accuracy is a secondary consideration after common use in reliable sources (WP:NCUE). I argue that there is no good case for "Hala'ib" being the most common use in reliable sources. Looking at raw Google hits of names for the place that I know of, using quotation marks, I find:
 * "halaib": 98,500
 * "halayeb": 73,900
 * "hala'ib": 54,200
 * "halayib": 28,200
 * (Your results might vary: I am doing the search from the Sudan. I think that people get different results from different countries.)
 * The version with the apostrophe comes in third place. We get a similar ranking if we try to stick to reliable sources by just looking in Google Scholar (again, your results may vary):
 * "halaib": 890
 * "halayeb": 289
 * "hala'ib": 236
 * "halayib": 119
 * Thus, I think "Hala'ib" is unjustifiable, and should go. For me, the reasonable options are "Halaib" (most common in search results, both in Google and Google Scholar), and "Halayib" (most similar to the standard Romanisation for Arabic that Wikipedia employs).
 * I think that we're looking at a case of "divided usage" WP:DIVIDEDUSE. WP:NCUE warns against overreliance on search engines: 'Search-engine hits are generally considered unreliable for testing whether one term is more common than another, but can suggest that no single term is predominant in English.' I think that that is the case that we've got. (Note that WP:NCUE doesn't identify simple majority as common usage, identifying a case of 60% versus 40% as one of divided usage.)
 * However, it's also possible that we're looking at a case of "no established usage".
 * I think that the WP:NCUE recommendations should be interpreted as the following:
 * If this is a case of true divided usage, we could interpret the directive to '[give] more weighting to verifiable reliable sources' to mean that a clear majority in scholarly sources is more indicative of common usage than is a clear majority in general search engine results. In this case, we should go with "Halaib".
 * WP:NCUE says: 'When there is evenly divided usage and other guidelines do not apply, leave the article name at the latest stable version.' If we don't agree with the interpretation of the previous bullet point & don't think that other guidelines apply, then the article should revert to "Halayib".
 * If instead we think that we're dealing with too few sources to identify any usage as common, we should follow the standard romanisation convention, & go with "Halayib".
 * Another editor has in the past day been pushing for "Halayeb", but I am not able to present that editor's argument. You can see it elsewhere on this page.
 * I wish I could make a good case for "Halayib" but I haven't convinced myself with the above. I think that there's no justification for leaving this page at "Hala'ib" and that "Halaib" is the clearest choice. There's probably a lot that I haven't thought of, & I look forward to others' comments. Pathawi (talk) 19:47, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

 * Halaib - The CIA Fact Book uses "Halaib Triangle", and that's authoritative enough for me. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:43, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I do see one benefit to "Hala'ib" over "Halaib": the apostrophe eliminates the possibility of seeing the "ai" combination in "Halaib" as a dipthong. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:24, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * But that just replaces one mistaken impression (diphthong) for another (glottal stop). Pathawi (talk) 08:06, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

 * Halaib per WP:COMMONNAME. Of course, the standard romanization would be nice, but once we omit the diacritic dot for the first letter, we're entering the realm of common spelling anyway, so there's no rules but only usage. The arguments below pro-Halayeb at one point made me smile, when they try to explain their point based on the "pronunciation of ي", whereas the main point of controversy rather lies in the representation of unspelled kasrah :) As for "Hala'ib", that's quite unintuitive for anyone who is acquainted with the use of apostrophe for hamza. And also not the prime choice based on the Google counts. –Austronesier (talk) 21:40, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * (ec) For what it's worth:
 * The Encyclopedia Britannica uses "Hala'ib Triangle"
 * As mentioned above, the CIA World Factbook uses "Halaib region" ,
 * Google Books search on "Halaib Triangle": (12 pages of results, asks "Did you mean Hala'ib Triangle?")
 * Google Books search on "Hala'ib Triangle: (9 pages of results)
 * Google Books search on "Halayib Triangle": (3 pages of results, asks "Did you mean Halayeb Triangle?")
 * Google Books search on "Halayeb Triangle": (2 pages of results)
 * The clear losers here are "Halayib Triangle" and "Halayeb Triangle", with only 3 and 2 pages of results.
 * Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:47, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Looks like the Encyclopedia Brittanica is probably the offender that got us this awful name in the first place, then: The original 2004 article used this spelling & was unsourced. Damned Brittanics… Pathawi (talk) 08:06, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

 * I just want to note that I dropped a pointer to this discussion on the talk page of the editor who created this article . My intent was not to canvass, but to find our their reasons for making their initial choice. Beyond My Ken (talk) 22:20, 13 November 2020 (UTC)
 * That would be me. I have no preference, or expertise at all to offer here! To answer Beyond My Ken's question, the existing redlink I was creating 'from' was spelt this way, and if I recall correctly most/some/all the sources I used concurred (I often create articles from a desire to eradicate a redlink in another article). I wasn't aware of any difference of opinion or controversy. So in summary, there is no linguistic reason for using this spelling in the first instance, and I have zero weight to add to any one side! Grunners (talk) 14:46, 14 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Thanks for your input, it's appreciated. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:13, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

 * It's been a week since I posted the RfC. Among people who've joined the conversation, we have three supporters of Halaib, one of Halayeb, & an invitee who has no preference. All supporters of Halaib have engaged the arguments for Halayeb in some degree (one only in passing, two more fully). There's been no argument for Halayeb or response in six days. I propose that it's time to follow WP:RM and give this conversation another seven days. At that time, if there's no further advocacy for Halayeb, I think we can consider that we've reached what I'm going to call consensus through attrition. Ideally, we can reach actual unanimity (not a requirement, but a nice aspiration). If we are at a stalemate, we can consider other options. I don't think we should leave this page at a title that everyone agrees is undesirable: That seems like the worst result of a strict consensus process. If there's no objection, I'll mark this as a controversial requested move tomorrow (I hope that's not rushing things). Pathawi (talk) 07:12, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I agree to go ahead with a move discussion. Typically, this will result in input from more uninvolved editors. And just hope that it won't lead to the most undesirable output (not moved because of lack of conensus about the move target, even though most agree that the current title is inapt). –Austronesier (talk) 10:35, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * I just want to point out that RfCs generally run for 30 days before being closed. I suggest waiting for that time period for more participation before taking any other steps.  There's no life-or-death situation here. Beyond My Ken (talk) 21:19, 18 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Listing this tomorrow if there's no objection. Pathawi (talk) 05:47, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Halayeb, it is pronounced Halayeb from a capable Arabic language native, very good English language ( living in USA from 1998, so I speak English very good). It is not Halayib, understand.
'''HALAYEB Halayeb - understand, it is Halayeb when it is spoken in Arabic not Halayib ; the difference is in how the Arabic letter ي is pronounced. Do you understand ? Dear USER: I am asking kindly that you do not revert my change of Halayeb to any another name, I do accept that you deleted my unproven section about the rebels that are still secret till today and only few people know about this matter and I am one of them who can speak freely because I live in USA and another person who is my link to the people living in Halayeb triangle. Do you think, rebels can proclaim themselves in Egypt with the dictatorship there and ask for a referendum, a free referendum, in Halayeb triangle, without being caught and imprisoned and then executed without a trial ?

If you find another user who understand Arabic better than me and surely you will find an English language better than me, then, I am ready to accept the change of name: must be better than me in both Arabic and English. If you are targeting me as you did in the past, I am ready to fight till I get blocked from Wikipedia and then, I will continue to edit as an anonymous. So let us ask people about which is exact : Halayeb or Halayib with the above condition : better Arabic and English than me.

And for your knowledge : there are signs that can be found above or below an Arabic letter and those change how the letter is pronounced. So the name in Arabic is حلايب - ح - ل - ا - ي - ب ح = h ل = l ا = a ي = i or y ( which are very similar in pronunciation, just read Andi and Andy) while the ي in Arabic here is pronounced just like ye ب = b So according to the rules used by some people who do not understand Arabic - why there is an extra (a) between the (h) and (l) in the English word ?

I will revert your edit and I will fight for the correct name as it is pronounced in Arabic, just for one cause : I am from Halayeb triangle. And why the name remained almost the last decade and more as Halayeb ? If you want to fight after all this facts and proofs, I am ready. I can be reached at +1 2622275793 and abdelhamidelsayed@hotmail.com Best regards, Abd Elhamid Elsayed Abdelhamidelsayed (talk) 01:41, 12 November 2020 (UTC)abdelhamidelsayed Abdelhamidelsayed (talk) 01:46, 12 November 2020 (UTC)abdelhamidelsayed
 * Once again, you're not understanding. Please read WP:COMMONNAME.  The name of the place  IN ENGLISH  is what matters, not what the locals call it in Arabic.You've been trying to make this change for 10 YEARS.  It's time to stop before you get blocked. Beyond My Ken (talk) 02:41, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

HALAYEB - I AM REQUESTING THE NAME TO BE CHANGED TO HALAYEB FROM ALL THE OTHER VERSION, IT IS PRONOUNCED HALAYEB IN ARABIC, UNDERSTAND. NOT HALAYIB
HALAYEB - understand, it is HALAYEB when it is spoken in Arabic not HALAYIB ; the difference is in how the Arabic letter (ي) is pronounced. Do you understand ?

If you find another user who understand Arabic better than me ( who cares about HALAYEB ) and surely you will find an English language better than me, then, I am ready to accept the change of name: must be better than me in both Arabic and English. . So let us ask people about which is exact : HALAYEB or HALAYIB with the above condition : better Arabic and English than me.

And for your knowledge : there are signs that can be found above or below an Arabic letter and those change how the letter is pronounced. So the name in Arabic is {حلايب - ح - ل - ا - ي - ب}

First letter = H (ح) Second letter = L (ل)

Third letter = A (ا)

Fourth letter = I or Y (ي)( which are very similar in pronunciation, just read Andi and Andy) while the ي in Arabic here is pronounced just like ye

Fifth letter = B (ب)

Do you understand that it is 5 letters in Arabic, so why it is six letters in English ? So according to the rules used by some people who do not understand Arabic - why there is an extra (a) between the (H) and (L) in the English word HALAYEB?

I will fight for the correct name as it is pronounced in Arabic, just for one cause : I am from Halayeb triangle. And why the name remained almost the last decade and more as Halayeb ? If you want to discuss after all this facts and proofs, I am ready. I can be reached at +1 2622275793 and abdelhamidelsayed@hotmail.com Best regards, Abd Elhamid Elsayed Abdelhamidelsayed (talk) 01:41, 12 November 2020 (UTC)abdelhamidelsayed Abdelhamidelsayed (talk) 01:46, 12 November 2020 (UTC)abdelhamidelsayed

Abdelhamidelsayed (talk) 03:32, 12 November 2020 (UTC)abdelhamidelsayed Abd Elhamid Elsayed
 * Koln, four letters, Cologne, 7 letters; Muscova, 7 letters, Moscow, six letters; Munchen, 7 letters, Munich, 6 letters. The English common names of these cities differ in the number of letters than the native name, because the number of letters used is totally irrelevant, as is your argument.  The English common name does not have to be a direct transliteration of the native name, it's whatever the place is commonly called. Beyond My Ken (talk) 03:56, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Nor does pronunciation have anything to do with it either. The English and the French both call the capital of France "Paris", but the English pronounce it "Par-is" and the French pronounce it "Par-ee". How the name is pronounced in Arabic is not determinative of what the English common name is.Again, please read WP:COMMONNAME, and when you finish, read WP:I didn't hear that. Beyond My Ken (talk) 04:00, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Abd Elhamid: There are three issues that you should be paying attention to, but thus far you seem not to be:
 * Note that the Wikipedia page for مصر is Egypt, not *Masr or *Misr. Why is this? This relates to the first principle that is at play here: That we use the common English name when such a name exists. Beyond My Ken has linked you to WP:COMMONNAME, which gives the general principle. I've linked you to Naming conventions (use English), which deals with this specific issue. You really should read these.
 * A claim I made a year ago was that there was no common name. At this point I think it's possible that I was wrong. However, it is only when there is no common name that the arguments I had been using for "Halayib" and those you're using for "Halayeb" matter at all. Here, we're getting into the question of what constitutes the best Romanisation.
 * There is actually already a policy for Arabic, & I've directed you to it before: WP:MOSAR.
 * The chief principle in most Romanisations is a one-for-one correspondence between phonemes & graphemes. As you surely know, the Arabic script for Arabic & the Latin script for English do not operate on the same principles: Arabic mostly only represents consonants & long vowels. English… is complicated. When transliterating, we try to make sure that each phoneme of the spoken language is represented: not each grapheme of the written language. As you surely know, if you were to write the name of the Triangle with the حركات, it would be حَلَايِبْ (pausal form: you can handle the إعراب however you want: doesn't change the argument). Arabic has those حركات precisely because the written language does not (usually) represent every phoneme of the spoken language. The Qur'ān employs those حركات because the spoken phonemes are important! So when you ask where the "a" after the "h" in "Halayib" or "Halayeb" or "Hala'ib" comes from, the answer is this: The same place that the first فتحة in حَلَايِبْ comes from.
 * The key point you keep raising, however, is that ‹e› is the "right" representation of the final vowel in the name. Again, we should follow WP:MOSAR in order to retain consistency thruout Wikipedia. If you think WP:MOSAR is wrong, the thing to do is to try to argue for a change in the Manual of Style. However, there is pretty much full agreement that formal Arabic (فصحى) has three vowel values, each of which has two lengths: /a/, /i/, and /u/. In written Arabic, the short forms are فتحة for /a/, كسرة for /i/, and ضمّة for /u/. Long forms are written by adding lengthening letters: ألف or ألف مقصورة for /aː/, ياء for /iː/, & واو for /uː/. Note that when you use full حركات, the same short vowel signs are used before these lengthening consonants. That is: كسرة and كسرة followed by ياء are the same vowel quality with different lengths. Recall the principle that there should generally be a one-for-one correspondence between phonemes & graphemes. For this reason, virtually all scholarly sources on Arabic use the same Latin letter to represent both the short & long vowel, & then mark length separately. The WP:MOSAR transliteration takes what I think is the most common tack of using a macron to distinguish the two: ‹i› versus ‹ī›. You feel that ‹e› is a better representation of كسرة in this location than ‹i› is. But when the vowel is long you've actually chosen to use ‹i›, as in your name: Abd Elham i d. Can you see how this is inconsistent? Note that in English, both ‹e› and ‹i› have many, many different corresponding sounds! ‹e› can be the sound in bet, or cafe, or beef. It is often "silent" at the end of a word. It combines with other vowels or consonants to make all manner of weird sounds. There is no inherent sound that corresponds to the letter ‹e›. Many Egyptians cannot distinguish between the /ɛ/ vowel of "b e tter" & the /ɪ/ vowel of "b i tter". Because short Arabic /i/ in Egyptian Arabic is frequently realised as [ɪ] in unstressed positions, it has become very common to represent this /i/ as ‹e›, as you do in Abd E lhamid e lsay e d. (For others not familiar with Egyptian Arabic: The definite article in Egypt is realised as /il/ not /al/.) I'm not saying that you can't make this vocalic distinction when you speak English! I've never heard you speak English. But your writing choices follow this common Egyptian practice, based on the long-standing perceptions of other people who are not able to make this distinction in English phonology. What this leads to, however, is an inconsistency between representation of the short forms of Arabic vowels & the long forms. It may serve just fine for everyday usage, but it's not inherently more correct (again: there is no fundamental sound for ‹e› in English!), & it's a worse usage for anything that tries to be a consistent transliteration.
 * Finally: You keep claiming that this page was located at Halayeb Triangle for more than ten years. This is not accurate. The page was created as Hala'ib Triangle in 2004, & it has retained that unfortunate name for most of this time. Since 2009, you have multiple times moved the page without discussion to Halayeb Triangle, but each time it's been moved back. I actually agree with you that "Halayeb" is a better choice than "Hala'ib" for multiple reasons (tho I don't think it's the best choice), but where you've really failed here is that you have not engaged community process. In this regard, I think reading Beyond My Ken's second suggestion, WP:I didn't hear that, is really worth your while. No productive change will come about if you don't listen to others, engage in actual dialogue with them, & follow community process. I very, very strongly recommend that you read the articles we've suggested to you before continuing the conversation. I don't think this will be productive until you do, & I think you'll find that your changes just keep getting reverted if you don't engage with what people are saying to you. Pathawi (talk) 05:12, 12 November 2020 (UTC)
 * Finally: You keep claiming that this page was located at Halayeb Triangle for more than ten years. This is not accurate. The page was created as Hala'ib Triangle in 2004, & it has retained that unfortunate name for most of this time. Since 2009, you have multiple times moved the page without discussion to Halayeb Triangle, but each time it's been moved back. I actually agree with you that "Halayeb" is a better choice than "Hala'ib" for multiple reasons (tho I don't think it's the best choice), but where you've really failed here is that you have not engaged community process. In this regard, I think reading Beyond My Ken's second suggestion, WP:I didn't hear that, is really worth your while. No productive change will come about if you don't listen to others, engage in actual dialogue with them, & follow community process. I very, very strongly recommend that you read the articles we've suggested to you before continuing the conversation. I don't think this will be productive until you do, & I think you'll find that your changes just keep getting reverted if you don't engage with what people are saying to you. Pathawi (talk) 05:12, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Thanks to ALLAH, you wrote in full Arabic

حَلَايِبْ

and this is pronounced HALAYEB. You missed a (fatha) on the letter ( ا ). It should be written as it is pronounced and not follow a stupid rule that some one put in place without being a professional Arabic knowledgeable, this means that I do not accept that this rule to be applied on HALAYEB. This city is not famous like PARIS and other cities you mentioned, so it should be written as the local inhabitants pronounce it, not some one who wants to fuss about it.

Why should some strangers should be involved before the local inhabitants, the Egyptians and the Sudanese.

Get yourself on a plane go and visit HALAYEB and ask people there to say it in front of your ears, may be you change your thinking.

Do not venture in my name explanation, I kept it this way because the stupid guy who translated my name decade ago was an ignorant when my first passport was issued and at that time, my father said it is not a big deal, I kept it this way for all my engineering degrees certificates so there is no difference, and this is due to someone IGNORANCE. My name should be : ABD ELHAMEED ELSAYED, so do not fuss with my name incorrectly trying to make your opinion prevail.

I have been using my true name because I have nothing to fear, posted my phone number, my electronic mail, to show my correctness and honesty and I DO NOT HIDE UNDER A FAKE USER NAME.

Read : MARK and MARQ and MARC and take your own decision. No body or better to say, only few people who are in Egypt and Sudan write about it frequently and the majority of them write it, (may we say all) HALAYEB and with the expansion of the internet users in Egypt and Sudan, more people will write it HALAYEB,

When people are presented with killing facts and remain obtuse, I do not care any more, how many people worldwide care about HALAYEB ? Not even 100000. And thanks to ALLAH, Google is searched more than Wikipedia, so the name HALAYEB on the long run will prevail. Good luck in convincing Google to change it in their maps from HALAYEB.

Have we involved the local inhabitants in this discussion ? NO. They should have a say

Abdelhamidelsayed (talk) 17:49, 12 November 2020 (UTC)abdelhamidelsayed
 * There should not be a فتحة on the ألف. The appropriate mark would be a سكون, but that's actually redundant, so I left it out, as most people do and, indeed, as you'll find in any copy of the Qur'ān. Be more careful about what writing practices you consider wrong.
 * I have been to Halayib & have many strong friendships there. Baruuk aneeb kittanaheeb? Ani umusallasiib gwida da akteen.
 * There is no standing question about how people pronounce the vowels in the name of the place. The disagreement is on representation. I think I've explained this issue adequately, but I don't have the impression that you're actually paying attention to what I'm saying.
 * Guess I'm sorry I used the version of your name that you've written about twenty times on this Talk page? Pathawi (talk) 18:54, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

My request.
'''How long would take this discussion before my request is granted? 2020 11 12 10:04 am Abdelhamidelsayed (talk) 16:04, 12 November 2020 (UTC)abdelhamidelsayed'''
 * Unless you have a consensus for the change, it will not be granted. Beyond My Ken (talk) 17:28, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

 * Who are the people involved here, I want to contact them to end this discussion to post some new information about HALAYEB, I see that Beyond My Ken, Pathawi and me care only during this time. Abdelhamidelsayed (talk) 18:20, 12 November 2020 (UTC)abdelhamidelsayed
 * Granting requests isn't the way this works. Wikipedia is a collaborative encyclopædia-building project. We have to work together. That means paying attention to what one another are saying & finding compromises. I do not believe that you've actually paid attention to anything that Beyond My Ken or I have said. You've also fairly frequently in this conversation been rather insulting, & have insisted on confrontational ways of trying to get the name changed to the version you want rather than engaged in a collaborative process to figure out the best solution we can work out collectively. Consensus-building can take time, & you don't always get your way. However, I'll note that your other approach has taken eleven years & still hasn't brought about the result you want. Maybe another way of engaging this is worth a try. Please: Read the things we've suggested to you. Read what our comments actually say, rather than looking for weird ways to take umbrage or nit-pick. Then we may actually have grounds for a conversation.
 * As for who's involved: At this time, only three of us are participating in this conversation. I posted a Request for Comments, so others who are interested may get involved as well in the coming days. We'll see. Pathawi (talk) 19:00, 12 November 2020 (UTC)

Requested move 11 December 2020

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Page moved. (closed by non-admin page mover) Jerm (talk) 15:57, 18 December 2020 (UTC)

Hala'ib Triangle → Halaib Triangle – The name Halaib Triangle is used more frequently in scholarly material than Hala'ib Triangle, & thus by WP:COMMONNAME has a better claim to the place name in Wikipedia. Even if we were to determine that this was a case of WP:DIVIDEDUSE, Hala'ib would not be a reasonable consideration, as it misrepresents the Arabic place name. There is extensive discussion on Talk:Hala'ib Triangle, but it involves relatively few discussants. All but one of these support Halaib. None supports the current name. The conversation on the talk page wrapped up (or took a break?) three weeks ago. Pathawi (talk) 06:50, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Comment: The above discussion revolved around an admittedly biased editor trying to take ownership of the article; Abd openly admits to having a biased position on matters related to the Triangle. (On top of that, it was deliberately run without putting it through the RM process, which is always a bad sign.)  O.N.R.  (talk) 10:16, 11 December 2020 (UTC)

 * Support. Halayib also acceptable. Srnec (talk) 15:44, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Support - I'm OK with Halaib or current Hala'ib, but Halayib is not well supported by source. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Beyond My Ken (talk • contribs) 23:00, 11 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Support - I'm OK with Halaib or Hala'ib, (or maybe Halayeb since its listed that way in Google Maps). PyroFloe (talk) 15:27, 13 December 2020 (UTC)

 * The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Bidhaawyeet Name: Original Research
This isn't published anywhere I know of, so inappropriate for the article. I do research on Bidhaawyeet (the Beja language). According to Bishaari people I've talked with, the original name in Bidhaawyeet is Awliib or Aylaab (depending on dialect), referring to a particular kind of grass used for grazing livestock which the area is famous for. I haven't been able to identify a botanical name for the grass variety, & don't have any further information on it. A similar name appears in EM Roper's 1928 handbook of Bidhaawyeet, but referring to the land west of the Red Sea Hills. Arabic Ḥalāyib is taken to be a distortion of the Bidhaawyeet name. In contemporary Bidhaawyeet, people refer to the place as Halaayib, which is from the Arabic Ḥalāyib. Pathawi (talk) 08:56, 19 December 2020 (UTC)
 * Just found a passage in a book in Bidhaawyeet which identifies the grass as ooliib with the definition: 'the grass goats like best; it is said to cure diseases'. No reference to the region, tho. Pathawi (talk) 09:00, 19 December 2020 (UTC)

title: Talk:Halaib Triangle


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sterry

Sterry
This is a genealogical entry - specifically outside of the scope of Wikipedia, per What Wikipedia is not. Cdc 23:23, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete wiki is not a genealogy site nor a web directory. Wyss 00:16, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: Genealogy. Geogre 00:50, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: DCEdwards1966 02:25, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Vanity: "My name is ... I carry the same sense of adventure. My web site is www..." And possible copyvio -- he admits he copied the genealogy from "the Sterry WorldWide Home Page." P Ingerson 23:44, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Del.Mikkalai 08:37, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sterry


text:
Carl Walther

Carl Wilhelm Freund Walther (22 November 1858 – 9 July 1915) was a German gunsmith from Zella-Mehlis, Saxe-Coburg and Gotha. In 1886, Walther founded the firm of Carl Walther GmbH.

Carl Walther's father, August Theodor Albert Walther, was a brass and iron caster. His mother, Rosalie Wilhelmine Amalie Pistor, came from the gunsmith family of Pistor, William Pistor's daughter. Carl Walther studied under gunsmith Willibald Barthelmes and later under Albin Schneider. Walther worked for the Jopp company in Zella-Mehlis, making Mauser rifles. In the fall of 1886, Walther opened his gunshop in Zella-Mehlis. Walther soon hired additional workers to meet the demand for the sporting rifles he made. In 1888, Walther married Minna Georgine Pickert, the daughter of the revolver manufacturer Christian Friedrich Pickert, and they had five sons. In 1903, after three of his sons entered the firm, the focus turned to the production of pistols. In 1908, Carl Walther, together with Fritz Walther, his eldest son, designed and produced the first usable German self-loading pistol. Fritz Walther took over the management of the firm after his father's death in 1915.

title: Carl Walther


text:
User talk:Pfarmer

The Humungous Image Tagging Project
Hi. You've helped with the WikiProject Wiki Syntax, so I thought it worth alerting you to the latest and greatest of Wikipedia fixing project, User:Yann/Untagged Images, which is seeking to put copyright tags on all of the untagged images. There are probably, oh, thirty thousand or so to do (he said, reaching into the air for a large figure). But hey: they're images ... you'll get to see lots of random pretty pictures. That must be better than looking for at at and the the, non? You know you'll love it. best wishes --Tagishsimon (talk)

title: User talk:Pfarmer


text:
WACA

WACA may refer to:

 * WACA (AM), a radio station (900 AM) licensed to Laurel, Maryland, United States
 * WDON (AM), a radio station (1540 AM) licensed to Wheaton, Maryland, which held the call sign WACA from 1997 to 2021
 * WACA Ground, a stadium in Perth, the home of the Western Australian Cricket Association
 * West African Court of Appeal, a British colonial appellate court
 * Waca Lake, a lake in the United States
 * Western Australian Cricket Association, Australian cricket governing body
 * Wide area circumferential ablation, a surgical procedure of the heart
 * World Affairs Councils of America, an American international affairs organization

title: WACA


text:
Laura I. Wiley

Laura Ives Wiley is a former member of the High Point, North Carolina city council, a former member of the North Carolina House of Representatives, and a former member of the University of North Carolina Board of Governors. A Republican, she represented the state's 61st legislative district, which at the time encompassed southwestern Guilford County, a majority of the city of High Point, the town of Jamestown, and the unincorporated area of Sedgefield. She was first elected to the North Carolina General Assembly in 2004 after defeating eight-term Republican incumbent Steve Wood in a primary election. Wiley won an uncontested race in 2006, and defeated primary challenger George Ragsdale in 2008. She chose not to run for re-election in 2010 and is now retired from elected public office. She remained active in political and community activities, having served on the War Memorial Foundation Board of Directors, the High Point Housing Authority Board of Commissioners, and the Senior Resources of Guilford Board of Directors. In March 2013 she was appointed by the North Carolina House of Representatives to serve a four-year term on the Board of Governors of the University of North Carolina system. In September 2016, she was named to The Order of the Long Leaf Pine, which is among the most prestigious awards presented by the Governor of North Carolina. The Order of the Long Leaf Pine is presented to individuals who have a proven record of extraordinary service to the state.

Wiley had previously served on the High Point City Council since 2002, and before that was an active volunteer for both the High Point and Guilford County Republican Parties. She previously served on the North Carolina Republican Party's Executive Committee and on the North Carolina 6th U.S. Congressional District Committee. She is a retired educator who worked in Ohio and Tennessee schools prior to moving to North Carolina in 1997. Born in Twenty-Nine Palms, CA, she is the daughter of a career United States Marine Corps officer. She is a graduate of the University of Tennessee with a B.S. in Education. She is married to Bruce C. Wiley, a retired business executive, and together they resided in High Point. They have two adult children, Adam & Andrew.

title: Laura I. Wiley


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Blunsdon United

Blunsdon United
This article is about a football team. "The highest attendance in the club history is 39" says it all. Not notable enough for Wikipedia. David Johnson 23:32, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC) I'm not going to vote. Instead, I trimmed the article down considerably, eliminating all POV gushing and unmemorable quotes (which don't belong in Wikipedia anyway). The remainder is short but not a stub. I'm sure you're still all going to vote Delete on grounds of non-notability. So be it. I think I've done my duty, and no doubt you'll do yours. JRM 00:04, 2004 Dec 9 (UTC)
 * Delete - agreed, it argues for its own un-notability. But it's too bad, because it's pretty well-written, really. Cdc 23:54, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Comment. I started a discussion on Fancruft a while ago, and asked "what is fancruft?" Now I know. This is fancruft. And I only mean that in a positive way; I love it to pieces. "The football team does not have a permanent ground therefore the team has to play in a open field behind Ermin Street. Unfortuantly the field is part own by the local farmer and during the summer months, the fields are used for training horses." Note that the team is real; it's not a hoax. This article is a well-meaning contribution from a fan.
 * Delete, and there's no need to resort to "not notable", since it's a vanity page. Shane King 00:18, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * Luckily that judgement is quite subjective, so I can disagree in this particular case. It may have been a vanity page, but I fail to see how it can be considered one now, except maybe for points #1 ("not well-known enough for there to be multiple contributors"—but if a page is not about the contributor or his/her pet project and was still interesting enough for him or her to create, how are you ever going to extrapolate that there will never be more?) and #4 ("Vanity pages almost always lack interesting content"), well, that's off into the realm of what's interesting, and if we're going to walk down that road on VfD... Still, I respect your opinion, of course. JRM 01:00, 2004 Dec 9 (UTC)
 * Keep this charming fancruft. Esthetics count for something. Wyss 00:21, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: A private passion. Not encyclopedic.  Geogre 00:55, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. However cute, its lack of reach makes it a vanity page. Katefan0 01:09, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * It's back to the drawing board for me. Now I definitely have to lock myself up in the meditation room again and wrap my head around Vanity. Oh, VfD, when will I ever learn? :-) JRM 01:38, 2004 Dec 9 (UTC)

Ok JRM, let's have a shufti at the wiki vanity criteria...

...if ...doomed eternally to be a one-editor page, it ought to be yanked. It's already gotten past that.

...vanity pages are usually highly POV and non-encyclopedic It's not PoV now.

...usually poorly written... Nope, it reads real slick ;)

...almost always lack interesting content... I think it's interesting, at least. ...written by people unfamiliar with Wikipedia... ok, ok... at first it was true.

...rarely perform a function that cannot be achieved with a user page... Ah yes, the user page, wiki love for vain non-notables everywhere :) Wyss 02:23, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Clearly Blunsdon United is not ephemeral: it will shortly be celebrating its half-century. A charming article; it's just a pity that retaining it in its current form (note the shortage of working links) could well encourage the vain to attempt to leaven deadly pages about non-notable psychics, campus personalities, etc. etc. with whimsy and jocosity. Now, if only there were suitable articles on Blunsdon (and no, I haven't overlooked Broad Blunsdon) and the Swindon League I'd know which way I'd vote. -- Hoary 09:17, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC) ..... PS those articles still need doing, but even in the meantime this article is a keeper. -- Hoary 09:07, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC) PPS I've changed my mind. Merge with Blunsdon. -- Hoary 05:12, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC) I promise this is the longest blurb you'll have ever seen me make on VfD. What more could I have to say? Look at the bright side: I'm more coherent than your average Sollog follower. :-) JRM 00:45, 2004 Dec 10 (UTC)
 * Well, this is Broad Blunsdon's and Blunsdon St Andrew's football team, so since there aren't articles on the Swindon League, and the record attendance is 39, there isn't an article on Blunsdon St Andrew and the Broad Blunsdon article is rather short, I'll vote merge. The team's been around for 50 years, which is more than bloody Digimon will manage, I'm sure. Average Earthman 14:43, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep - personally i found this article about Blunsdon United quite intresting and well written.--KeithV 21:29, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Constituting this user's one and only edit to wikipedia so far. -- Graham ☺ | Talk 21:34, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep for various reasons already mentioned; possibly merge to the league it comes from if that gets an article Kappa 22:38, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. Not notable. --Improv 22:23, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. It's not harming anyone, it doesn't duplicate material elsewhere, and it's exactly the sort of thing Wikipedia can do so much better than any paper encyclopaedias. P Ingerson 23:32, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete for non-notability. Tuf-Kat 00:08, Dec 10, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Since its nomination, there have been enough contributions to it that I can now, in good faith, vote to keep it without looking like I'm just glorifying my own efforts or pushing some sort of inclusionist agenda on articles I've scarcely looked at (my initial reasons for abstention). Screw inclusionism and deletionism. I want this article to exist on its own merits. I want "precedent" to shut the hell up while actual articles are still talking. If you want to trim it or merge it with something else because you can't bear to see it occupy its own title, great, we can still talk about that, build consensus, be Wikipedians. But don't delete it. Please. People. Do you want me to beg? I'll beg. I'm not begging you to vote my way because I'm such a big crybaby, I'm begging you to look into your hearts and ask yourself: is there a place on Wikipedia for Blunsdon United? Even if I promise to address whatever concerns anyone may have with regards to upholding the Wikipedia standards on the writing? Even if just merged into a larger article? Anywhere? Don't you care about a local football team? Well, I sure as hell don't, and I still want this to exist. This feels right, dammit.
 * "is there a place on Wikipedia for Blunsdon United?" - apparently so, more's the pity. I'm making a note to write about my junior football team, the Kennington Saints, since at least we got more than 39 people watching some of our games. Apparently it wouldn't be disruption of wikipedia to prove a point to write that article, it would be adding "charming" content that "beatifully illistrates a wider subject". Shane King 06:20, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)
 * Yes, please do write about them. Don't worry about it too much, Shane—the inclusionists will be the first ones against the wall when the revolution comes (that is, Wikipedia 1.0). The People's Committee for Notability will then impose sanity upon this anarchy. And we will fork. (I'm only half-joking with all of this, obviously. :-) JRM 08:56, 2004 Dec 13 (UTC)
 * Keep. It has notability in that it beautifully illustrates a wider subject: local football teams in the UK. Well done guys. [[User:GeorgeStepanek|GeorgeStepanek\talk ]] 01:26, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Same reason as the user GeorgeStepanek--Chris Du 10:10, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Agree with GeorgeStepanek. =) --Andylkl 19:39, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep it. —[[en:RaD Man|RaD Man (talk)]] 23:08, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Del.Mikkalai 08:36, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. --JuntungWu 14:24, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Comment. Everybody look at www.wikicities.com. Once that's suitably up and running, can you say, Transwiki? (I'm getting a little worried at all the wikisomethings, though. What's next? WikiMath and transwiki all math articles?) JRM 09:47, 2004 Dec 13 (UTC)
 * Keep. Like the entry for Earth in the Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy this article is "mostly harmless". And if it's good enough for doctors to "do no harm" (see: Hippocratic oath), it should be good enough for us. Paul August 23:15, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. The Recycling Troll 23:53, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Merge - with Blunsdon. no need for a separate article and maybe the merge will prompt work on the Blunsdon article. - Trick 01:31, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. There is no point in the senseless destruction of this article.  Wikipedia is not paper, nor is it toilet paper.  [[User:GRider|GRider\talk]] 18:15, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Wonderful little thing and, as said, doesn't harm anyone or anything. Tolo 14:24, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep. Charming, well written, and Wikipedia is not paper.  Dbenbenn 17:10, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Keep, salva veritate. -- R yan!  |  Talk  17:45, Dec 30, 2004 (UTC)


text:
Talk:Email marketing

Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment
This article was the subject of a Wiki Education Foundation-supported course assignment, between 27 August 2019 and 13 December 2019. Further details are available on the course page. Student editor(s): Keegan Willson. Peer reviewers: Laurenbeth76. Above undated message substituted from Template:Dashboard.wikiedu.org assignment by PrimeBOT (talk) 20:28, 16 January 2022 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 September 2023
Email marketing is a digital marketing strategy that involves sending emails to a group of individuals or a list of subscribers with the aim of promoting products, services, building relationships, or delivering valuable content. It is a highly effective and direct way to communicate with your audience and can serve various purposes, including:

Promotional Emails: These emails are designed to promote products, services, discounts, or special offers to drive sales and revenue.

Transactional Emails: These include order confirmations, shipping notifications, and receipts. They provide customers with essential information about their transactions.

Newsletter Emails: These emails are used to share news, updates, and valuable content with subscribers. They help build brand loyalty and engagement.

Lead Nurturing Emails: These are sent to guide potential customers through the sales funnel, providing them with relevant information to convert them into paying customers.

Event Invitations: Email marketing is used to promote and invite people to attend webinars, seminars, conferences, or other events.

Welcome Emails: Sent to new subscribers or customers, welcoming them and providing introductory information about your business. Personalization: Personalizing email content based on user behavior and preferences remained a significant trend. Marketers were increasingly using data to create highly tailored email campaigns.

Automation: The use of marketing automation tools continued to grow, allowing for more sophisticated email workflows, including drip campaigns, abandoned cart emails, and triggered responses based on user actions.

Interactive Emails: Marketers were exploring ways to make emails more interactive by incorporating elements like polls, surveys, and product carousels within emails.

Mobile Optimization: Given the increasing use of mobile devices for email consumption, ensuring that emails were mobile-responsive and optimized for small screens was a priority.

AI and Predictive Analytics: Artificial intelligence and machine learning were being used to analyze data and predict user behavior, allowing for more targeted email campaigns.

Privacy and Compliance: Marketers were adapting to changing data privacy regulations, such as GDPR and CCPA, by ensuring that email practices were compliant and that subscribers had clear opt-in and opt-out options.

Content Quality: High-quality, valuable content was emphasized as a way to engage subscribers and maintain a positive sender reputation.

Segmentation: Email lists were being segmented more finely to deliver highly relevant content to specific groups of subscribers.

A/B Testing: Marketers continued to use A/B testing to optimize subject lines, email content, and calls to action for improved performance.

Deliverability: Ensuring emails reached recipients' inboxes (rather than spam folders) remained a focus, with attention to sender reputation and email authentication protocols.

Email marketing platforms and tools provide features such as list management, email design templates, automation, analytics, and tracking to help businesses create, send, and optimize their email campaigns. By segmenting email lists, personalizing content, and analyzing performance metrics like open rates and click-through rates, businesses can tailor their email marketing efforts to their target audience, improve engagement, and achieve their marketing goals. Email marketing can be a cost-effective way to connect with customers, build brand awareness, and drive conversions when done correctly.

Email advertising is a digital advertising method that entails sending emails to a group of people or a list of subscribers with the purpose of promoting products, offerings, constructing relationships, or handing over precious content. It is a noticeably effective and direct way to communicate with your target market and can serve numerous purposes, including:

Promotional Emails: These emails are designed to promote products, offerings, reductions, or unique offers to drive sales and revenue.

Transactional Emails: These encompass order confirmations, transport notifications, and receipts. They offer customers with essential records about their transactions.

Newsletter Emails: These emails are used to share information, updates, and precious content with subscribers. They assist construct emblem loyalty and engagement.

Lead Nurturing Emails: These are despatched to guide potential customers via the income funnel, providing them with applicable information to transform them into paying customers.

Event Invitations: Email advertising is used to sell and invite human beings to wait webinars, seminars, conferences, or other events.

Welcome Emails: Sent to new subscribers or customers, welcoming them and presenting introductory facts approximately your commercial enterprise. Personalization: Personalizing e-mail content based on person behavior and options remained a good sized fashion. Marketers have been more and more the use of information to create incredibly tailored e-mail campaigns.

Automation: The use of advertising and marketing automation tools persevered to develop, taking into consideration more sophisticated e mail workflows, along with drip campaigns, deserted cart emails, and caused responses based totally on person actions.

Interactive Emails: Marketers have been exploring methods to make emails greater interactive with the aid of incorporating elements like polls, surveys, and product carousels inside emails.

Mobile Optimization: Given the growing use of mobile devices for email intake, ensuring that emails had been cellular-responsive and optimized for small screens changed into a concern.

AI and Predictive Analytics: Artificial intelligence and machine studying had been being used to analyze data and are expecting user conduct, allowing for more focused e-mail campaigns.

Privacy and Compliance: Marketers were adapting to changing information privateness guidelines, inclusive of GDPR and CCPA, by means of ensuring that email practices were compliant and that subscribers had clear opt-in and choose-out options.

Content Quality: High-high-quality, treasured content material was emphasized as a way to engage subscribers and keep a wonderful sender recognition.

Segmentation: Email lists had been being segmented extra finely to supply fairly relevant content material to specific businesses of subscribers.

A/B Testing: Marketers persevered to use A/B checking out to optimize difficulty strains, e-mail content material, and calls to movement for improved performance.

Deliverability: Ensuring emails reached recipients' inboxes (rather than junk mail folders) remained a focus, with attention to sender recognition and email authentication protocols.

Email advertising platforms and tools provide functions which include list control, e mail layout templates, automation, analytics, and tracking to assist corporations create, send, and optimize their electronic mail campaigns. By segmenting e mail lists, personalizing content material, and reading overall performance metrics like open rates and click-via costs, businesses can tailor their email advertising efforts to their audience, enhance engagement, and acquire their marketing desires. Email advertising may be a cost-powerful manner to connect with customers, build brand recognition, and force conversions while accomplished correctly.

122.160.116.19 (talk) 05:41, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
 * Red information icon with gradient background.svg Not done: Much of this list is not even about types of email marketing as the first paragraph claims; it looks like possible LLM output to me. It's unclear what you want changed. Tollens (talk) 05:56, 21 September 2023 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 29 October 2023
Businesses need creative methods to reach their target audience and increase sales in the good, attention-starved digital environment of today.

email marketing might be used in this situation.

You may proactively contact potential clients who might not be aware of your goods or services through email marketing.

You may customize your message and highlight the unique value your company delivers thanks to the direct line of connection it gives.

email marketing has changed into a key tool for companies trying to increase their customer base. Akhtarzahid (talk) 10:52, 29 October 2023 (UTC)
 * Red question icon with gradient background.svg Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Liu1126 (talk) 13:36, 29 October 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Email marketing


text:
Guillermo Franco

Guillermo "Guille" Luis Franco Farquarson  (born 3 November 1976) is a former professional footballer who played as a striker. Born and raised in Argentina, he played for the Mexico national team.

Early life
Guillermo Franco was born in Corrientes, the capital city of the Corrientes Province in Argentina.

San Lorenzo
Franco began his career with Argentine Primera División side San Lorenzo, playing with the team from 1996 to 2002 mainly as a right winger.

Monterrey
He then joined Mexican Monterrey in the middle of 2002, and made his debut during the 2002 Apertura. Franco was very successful with the Rayados, and led the league in scoring during the 2004 Apertura with 15 goals in 16 games, playing as a striker. He was part of the team that won the Mexican Primera División championship in 2003 and achieved runner-up position twice in 2004 and 2005.

Villarreal
Subsequently, Franco spent three years in Spain playing for Villarreal, but his spell was plagued with injuries. In his first season, Franco helped Villarreal reach the semifinal of the UEFA Champions League where they lost to Arsenal. Franco also scored a goal that qualified Villarreal for the UEFA Cup, in a 1–0 victory against Celta de Vigo.

West Ham United
In September 2009, Franco signed for West Ham United on a one-year contract, becoming the first Mexican to play for the Hammers. On 25 September, it was disclosed that due to West Ham's perilous financial situation following former chairman Björgólfur Guðmundsson's financial collapse, West Ham's CEO Scott Duxbury, and their Sporting and Football Technical Director Gianluca Nani, had part financed the deal from their own salaries. Franco made his debut for West Ham on 17 October 2009 in a 2–1 away defeat to Stoke City. He scored his first goal for the team on 31 October 2009 to put them 1–0 up against Sunderland away from home, in a game that finished 2–2. Franco became the third Mexican player to score in the Premier League, Jared Borgetti and Carlos Vela being the first and second respectively. On 24 April 2010, Franco assisted Scott Parker, who scored for the winner in a 3–2 victory against Wigan Athletic; a win which would see them safe from relegation. In May it was announced that West Ham would release Franco.

Vélez Sársfield
The striker then spent one semester as a free agent, until he joined Vélez Sársfield back in Argentina in January 2011. He signed a one-year deal, and made his debut coming on as a second-half substitute for Santiago Silva in a 2–2 draw at Independiente in the first fixture of the 2011 Clausura. Subsequently, he played the starting minutes of the Copa Libertadores debut against Caracas FC, suffering a shoulder injury that left him out for the remainder of the season. Having played less than 30 minutes, he offered the club to terminate his contract, or suspend his salary until he recovered, though Vélez rejected it. He returned for the 2011 Copa Libertadores quarter-finals, entering the field and scoring one goal from a penalty in a 4–2 victory over Libertad. He also played the last 5 games of the 2011 Clausura (one as a starter), helping his team win the Argentine league title.

Pachuca
On 21 January 2012, he joined Pachuca of the Mexican Primera División. The next season, the Chicago Fire signed him.

Chicago Fire
Franco signed with Major League Soccer club Chicago Fire on 14 September 2012. On 21 January 2013 the club announced Franco's contract option was not picked up for the new season.

On 29 January 2013, Franco announced his retirement from football.

International career
In 2004, Franco became a naturalized Mexican citizen after settling in Mexico in 2002; and made senior national team debut in 2005.

Franco played at the 2006 FIFA World Cup and was a part of the 2009 CONCACAF Gold Cup squad. During the 2010 World Cup qualification, he contributed two goals in six games. He played in all four matches for Mexico at the 2010 FIFA World Cup.

In September 2010, Franco announced his retirement from international football.

International goals

 * Scores and results list Mexico's goal tally first, score column indicates score after each Franco goal.

Honours
San Lorenzo
 * Argentine Primera División: 2001 Clausura
 * Copa Mercosur: 2001

Monterrey
 * Mexican Primera División: 2003 Clausura

Vélez Sársfield
 * Argentine Primera División: 2011 Clausura

Mexico
 * CONCACAF Gold Cup: 2009

Individual
 * Mexican Primera División Golden Ball: Clausura 2003
 * Mexican Primera División Top scorer: 2004 Apertura

title: Guillermo Franco


text:
Serenus Sammonicus

Quintus Serenus Sammonicus (died 212) was a Roman savant and tutor to Geta and Caracalla who became fatally involved in politics; he was also author of a didactic medical poem, Liber Medicinalis ("The Medical Book"; also known as De medicina praecepta saluberrima), probably incomplete in the extant form, as well as many lost works.

Works and influence
Serenus was "a typical man of letters in an Age of Archaism and a worthy successor to Marcus Cornelius Fronto and Aulus Gellius, one whose social rank and position is intimately bound up with the prevailing passion for grammar and a mastery of ancient lore". According to Macrobius, who referenced his work for his Saturnalia, he was "the learned man of his age". Maurus Servius Honoratus and Arnobius both employed his erudition to their own ends. He possessed a library of 60,000 volumes.

His most quoted work was Res reconditae, in at least five books, of which fragments only are preserved in quotations. The surviving work, De medicina praecepta, in 1115 hexameters, contains a number of popular remedies, borrowed from Pliny the Elder and Pedanius Dioscorides, and various magic formulae, amongst others the famous abracadabra, as a cure for fever and ague. It concludes with a description of the famous antidote of Mithridates VI of Pontus.

It was much used in the Middle Ages, and is of value for the ancient history of popular medicine. The syntax and metre are remarkably correct. According to the unreliable Augustan History he was a famous physician and polymath, who was put to death with other friends of Geta in December 212, at a banquet to which he had been invited by Caracalla shortly after the assassination of his brother.

The first printed edition of De medicina praecepta was edited by Giovanni Sulpizio da Veroli, before 1484.

title: Serenus Sammonicus


text:
User talk:Kellygrape

The Humungous Image Tagging Project
Hi. You've helped with the WikiProject Wiki Syntax, so I thought it worth alerting you to the latest and greatest of Wikipedia fixing project, User:Yann/Untagged Images, which is seeking to put copyright tags on all of the untagged images. There are probably, oh, thirty thousand or so to do (he said, reaching into the air for a large figure). But hey: they're images ... you'll get to see lots of random pretty pictures. That must be better than looking for at at and the the, non? You know you'll love it. best wishes --Tagishsimon (talk)

title: User talk:Kellygrape


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Derek Jamison

Derek Jamison
Obvious joke or hoax. Gobeirne 23:39, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete - yep. Cdc 23:52, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete Wyss 00:18, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: I went through the history, to see if perhaps this had just been vandalized, but it seems to have been this way all along. Its first creation was one line and then the geocities link -- the kind of thing some folks say should stay and grow but which I say is a speedy candidate for spam -- and now it has sprouted all this nonsense.  Geogre 00:53, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: DCEdwards1966 02:26, Dec 9, 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: fairly clearly a hoax.  -- Antaeus Feldspar 05:45, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. A hoax, even though it is a very funny one. P Ingerson 23:36, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * I know! I added it to BJAODN before I listed it here. If only  69.110.47.56 used their power for good instead of evil! Gobeirne 07:01, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)


text:
Sadistik Exekution

Sadistik Exekution was an Australian extreme metal band from Sydney. The band formed in 1985, although their main active period was from 1986 until 2004. Known for their outrageous live show antics, notorious behaviour and non conformist attitude, Sadistik Exekution also wrote, recorded and performed their own extreme form of death metal. Throughout their career, the band members have firmly stated they should not at all be confused with or wrongly labelled as 'black metal'. Ironically however, the band was also quite influential on some of the early Scandinavian black metal bands, as well as other extreme metal bands from around the world. Their last official live show was in Sydney in 1999, although they did re-unite once more in November 2009, to perform as the main act at the first annual Australian Metal Awards in Sydney.

Early years
The band first came together after bass player Dave Slave met vocalist Rok outside an Iron Maiden concert in Sydney in May 1985. For the remainder of that year and into the first half of 1986, Dave and Rok rehearsed with a number of different guitarists and drummers and began writing material. However, the problem of finding reliable musicians that were capable of playing this extreme form of metal seemed ongoing. Eventually, Dave Slave and Rok decided to try their luck by temporarily relocating to Melbourne through the middle of 1986.

During this period, Slave had appeared on the talent-quest segment of the iconic Australian TV program Hey Hey It's Saturday and after playing a bass solo, he proceeded to throw his custom made American made BC Rich bass guitar to the floor, breaking it beyond repair. This was also around the time they met their future guitarist, the Rev. Kriss Hades. However, due to various factors, Slave and Rok eventually returned to Sydney in September 1986, leaving Hades behind.

At the same time, former Slaughter Lord guitarist Sandy Vahdani had been rehearsing some new material with a drummer called Sloth. Interestingly, Sloth happened to be distantly related to Dave Slave and both Sandy and Dave had previously been in a small time local Sydney thrash band called Hammer's Thrust. By the end of September, the four officially united as Sadistik Exekution and began writing songs that would eventually be recorded on the band's debut album. Before the end of 1986 they had planned to include Rev. Kriss Hades in the line up, as a five piece act, but this didn't eventuate.

While the band continued to rehearse and write new material, Dave Slave and Rok relentlessly pursued local publicity, while Rok also began his correspondence with key members of the then embryonic Norwegian and Swedish black metal scenes. Euronymous from Mayhem can be seen wearing one of the band's t-shirts in several photographs from the late 1980s and early 90s and Rok was also in regular contact with Jon 'Metalion' Kristiansen, of Slayer magazine fame. Rok also had correspondence with Quorthon of Bathory and a number of other bands and identities who went on to become more well known.

Unfortunately though, problems continued to plague the band and despite them being very close to playing live in Sydney several times from 1987 to 1989, one thing or another was always there to stop them. In March 1988 the band went into the studio to record The Magus album and once again, problem after problem delayed their progress. After countless delays and difficulties, The Magus album was finally released in June 1991 by the Sydney label Vampire Records.

This year also marked the first live performances of the band in Sydney and Melbourne. Sandy had left the band soon after The Magus recording sessions and Rev. Kriss Hades had moved to Sydney and became a full time member in 1989. They very quickly established themselves as a formidable live act during 1991, with outrageous antics, onstage fighting, amps blowing up, crowd violence and generally absurd behaviour. All the while though, they took their music quite seriously and despite their appearance and manner, the incredibly fast and technically advanced songs were always at the heart of their shows and recordings.

We Are Death
In 1993, Sloth left the band (which he did several times over the years) soon after they had recorded most of the material their second album. Replacement drummer, Steve 'The Mechanik' Hoban played on one track, which was Astral Abortis. A demo tape featuring the core songs of the album was sent to French label Osmose Productions. Originally intended to be called 'Spiritual Dynamix', the words We Are Death... Fukk You! were printed on the demo tapes. This being a reaction to what they believed was constant misrepresentation as being labelled a black metal band. The label mistook these words to be the title of the album and released it under that name. It soon became a successful release for the label and in 1995 the band was flown to Europe, to be part of a tour with Finnish band Impaled Nazarene and American act Absu.

The Mechanik had injured his back at a Bolt Thrower concert in Sydney only weeks before the tour, resulting in an extended hospital stay in a major Sydney hospital's spinal injuries unit. So he was unable to play drums for many months afterwards and the band had no choice but to quickly search for a replacement drummer.

Melbourne based drummer Matt 'Skitz' Sanders from the band Damaged was recruited and rushed into rehearsals for the tour. After the first few dates of the tour, it was soon realised that the other Sadistik Exekution members were behaving in an unprofessional manner, resulting in various problems. It was during this tour that one of the most famous incidents in the band's history occurred. With only a few more dates to be played in Italy and Germany, Dave Slave, Kriss Hades and Rok began fighting and causing damage to the tour bus. After a short period, their behaviour got out of control and the bus was stopped while tour management and the bus drivers were deciding how to deal with the situation. Eventually the tour proceeded, although the guitarist Kriss Hades struggled to play the rest of the shows with a badly broken finger. Upon returning to Australia, Sadistik Exekution ceased all activity for many several months while Hades recovered. The band's outrageous behaviour during this tour also meant that the band were never invited to return to Europe for any further tours or live shows for the remainder of the decade and beyond.

K.A.O.S.
With Sloth back in the band once more, Sadistik Exekution spent most of 1996 working on their third album KAOS, which was initially released through Australian label Shock Records in May 1997. A mini EP called Sadistik Elektrokution was also released by Shock Records in 1998 which featured remixed versions of a few previous songs as well as a bass solo by Dave Slave.

KAOS was then released again in 1998 by Osmose Productions and this version had a few small differences in the artwork and layout. Faster and rawer than anything they had produced before, this album saw the beginning of a particularly active period for the band, with a steady stream of live performances and other projects. Dave Slave had been working on an album of electronic rock n' roll for several years, finally releasing it under the name Digital Fiction in 1998 through a Brisbane distributor called Oracle. Rok also recorded two solo albums, with Osmose releasing the first, This is Satanik in 1998 and Melbourne's Modern Invasion Music releasing the second, Burning Metal in the year 2000. Rev. Kriss Hades had now temporarily joined the Sydney black metal band Nazxul, who he recorded and played live with. Sloth also recorded a series of demos, mainly consisting of some of his many punk rock songs under the name Bog.

At the end of 1998, shortly after Rok had performed a solo show, Sadistik Exekution reconvened to play a New Year's Eve gig. It was billed as their last show ever, but the band had often advertised their performances this way. However, only months later, in 1999 they took to the stage again at Sydney's Globe Theatre in the suburb of Newtown. This time it did end up being the bands last live performance. The band remained dormant for the remainder of the year, as Hades toured with Nazxul and the others concerned themselves with personal projects once more. Kriss Hades also began piecing together several tracks that would eventually make up his solo debut.

The band maintained that it had ended as a live act, but when the line-up for the year 2000 Metal for the Brain festival in Canberra was announced, Sadistik Exekution was billed as one of the headliners. While anticipation among fans was high that the country's most notorious metal band was finally making an appearance at Australia's biggest metal event, Dave Slave broke his leg in an incident only weeks before the show and the band had to withdraw.

Final recordings
A further two Sadistik Exekution albums were recorded, the first, Fukk released in 2002 and the second, simply called Fukk II, appearing 18 months later. Dave Slave has often affirmed that the band is no more, claiming to be busy with his solo act Doomed and Disgusting and other musical pursuits. Kriss Hades has established himself as a solo artist, producing an album of noise and dark ambience in 2002. He also maintains a parallel career as an underground illustration artist. Rok also moved further into the art world and eventually became a highly respected and sought-after illustrator for other heavy metal bands and labels around the world. Sloth distanced himself from the other Sadistik Exekution members. However, he continued to play as a session drummer with various low key rock and metal bands around the local Australian live pub and club circuit.

Sadistik Exekution made a live return in November 2009 as the featured act at the Australian Metal Awards in Sydney. Leading up to the event, Rok was interviewed on radio station JJJ's leading heavy metal show 'The Racket' with Andrew Haug. He spoke at length with Andrew of his many adventures over the years as well as the upcoming live performance. During the interview, Rok made no further comments about Sadistik Exekution recording further albums. Later that month they appeared to a capacity crowd at Sydney's Fox Studios for the Australian Heavy Metal awards night, where they were given the final spot for the night.

Despite many invitations to perform at various events and festivals within Australia and Europe over the following years, the band always declined such offers. However, founding members Rok and Dave Slave have continued to work together with post band business activities, including merchandise, label and legal matters.

title: Sadistik Exekution


text:
National Radiological Protection Board

The National Radiological Protection Board (NRPB) was a public authority in the UK created by the Radiological Protection Act 1970. Its statutory functions were to conduct research on radiological protection and provide advice and information on the subject to Government Departments and others. It was also authorized to provide technical services and charge for them. Originally NRPB dealt only with ionizing radiation, but its functions were extended in 1974 to non-ionizing radiation.

Structure
The Board consisted of a chairman and a maximum of nine other members, later increased to twelve, all appointed by Health Ministers. Throughout its existence, NRPB had 300 members of staff on average. They were located at the headquarters in Chilton near Oxford and at laboratories in Leeds and Glasgow. The Department of Health funded the difference between the cost of NRPB and its income by annual grant.

Work
Research on ionizing radiation included: plutonium exposure; internal dosimetry; radioactive discharges; nuclear accidents and wastes; radon hazards; medical x rays; epidemiology and molecular biology. Research on non-ionizing radiation included the physics and biology of exposure to ultraviolet sources, electricity supplies, and mobile phones.

As well as a full range of technical services - from personnel dosimetry to radiation surveys - NRPB also engaged in projects such as: the safe transport of radioactive materials; preparedness for nuclear emergencies; exposure to cosmic rays; optimization of protection; improved radiation instruments; training courses; a wide selection of publications.

Members of staff contributed to major public inquiries about the nuclear industry in the UK and supported the UK response to the Chernobyl disaster. They also participated in the work of the International Commission on Radiological Protection; the International Commission on Non-Ionizing Radiation Protection; the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation; the Nuclear Energy Agency; and various committees of the Commission of the European Communities.

Transition
The Health Protection Agency Act 2004 repealed the Radiological Protection Act. On 1 April 2005, NRPB became the Radiation Protection Division of the Health Protection Agency (HPA). Under the terms of the Health and Social Care Act 2012, the HPA was abolished, and responsibility for radiation protection functions was assigned to the Public Health England Centre for Radiation, Chemical and Environmental Hazards (CRCE) at the Harwell Science and Innovation Campus near Chilton, Oxfordshire.

title: National Radiological Protection Board


text:
Stevens Pass

Stevens Pass (elevation 4061 ft) is a mountain pass through the Cascade Mountains located at the border of King County and Chelan County in Washington, United States. U.S. Route 2 travels over the pass, reaching a maximum elevation of 4061 ft. The Pacific Crest Trail crosses the highway at Stevens Pass. The BNSF Railway's Cascade Tunnel lies 1180 ft below the pass summit.

The pass is near Stevens Pass Ski Area, which is on Cowboy Mountain and Big Chief Mountain.

History
Stevens Pass is named after John Frank Stevens, the first non-indigenous person to discover it. Native Americans familiar with the area knew of the pass, although very little is known about Native American routes through the mountains. Hubert C. Ward, exploring the area for the Northern Pacific Railway in 1872, heard from some Native Americans that there was a low pass at the head of Nason Creek, a tributary of the Wenatchee River, which led to one of the sources of the Skykomish River. Albert Bowman Rogers of the Great Northern Railway, learned from Native Americans in 1887 that the Skykomish River and Nason Creek had sources close to one another but that neither natives nor whites visited the Nason Creek area. Neither Ward nor Rogers had time to fully explore the area.

In 1890, Stevens conducted a thorough survey for the Great Northern, located the pass, and determined it to be the best suited for a railway crossing of the North Cascades. He wrote that there was no indication that the pass was used — there was no sign of any trails, blazes, campsites, or old campfires, for at least 10 mi in either direction and that the area was thickly forested and covered with almost impenetrable brush. Stevens wrote, "the region promised nothing to the prospector, while Indians and Whites crossing the mountains used either Snoqualmie on the south or the Indian Pass on the north."

Stevens had also charted Marias Pass in northwestern Montana, on the Continental Divide near Glacier National Park.

Notable avalanches
On February 23, 1910, the two Great Northern Railway trains, the "Seattle Express" local passenger train No. 25 and Fast Mail train No. 27, were stalled on the tracks at the Cascade Tunnel Station on Stevens Pass because of a heavy snow storm and avalanches. Then on March 1, six days later, another avalanche pushed both trains 150 ft down into the Tye River Valley, thus burying the train cars in snow and debris. The Wellington Disaster killed ninety-six people – thirty-five passengers and sixty-one railroad employees – which made the Wellington avalanche one of the worst train disasters in United States history.

Over a century later, an avalanche occurred on February 19, 2012 near Tunnel Creek Canyon Road, killing three of four experienced backcountry skiers, including the Stevens Pass Ski Area's marketing director; professional skier Elyse Saugstad, who was wearing an avalanche airbag backpack, survived after tumbling down for more than 2,000 feet (600 m).

Climate
Stevens Pass experiences a maritime-influenced alpine subarctic climate (Köppen Dsc), with short, mild, dry summers and extremely heavy winter snowfall.

The following chart includes climate data for the Stevens Pass (SNOTEL) weather station from January 1, 1991, to December 31, 2020.

title: Stevens Pass


text:
Jesús Arellano

José de Jesús Arellano Alcocer (born 8 May 1973) is a Mexican former professional footballer who played as a winger and a wanted fugitive. He last played for Monterrey in the Primera División de México.

Biography
Arellano, nicknamed "El Cabrito," is known for his speed, dribbling and passing abilities, Arellano has played an important role for the Mexico national team for many years and has led his country to victories in several occasions. He was one of the players responsible for the erratic comebacks made by Mexico in the World Cup groups stage at France'98. Known as the "Super-Substitute", Arellano was brought in the field, in the late stages of the match, by Mexico's now retired national coach, Manuel Lapuente and help his country come back from seemingly impossible situations to either draw or win the games.

After his debut with CF Monterrey, he tried his luck with the "All Mexican Team", Club Deportivo Guadalajara during the 1998 Fall season. However, Arellano found his success with the "Rayados de Monterrey" club, helping them win the 2003 Clausura championship title in the La Primera División.

In the FIFA World Cup in Korea-Japan 2002, Arellano made a less of an impact as a substitute. He was among the starting eleven for three matches, where he helped his country reach the "Elimination Round of 16" of the tournament. In total, he has amassed 70 caps for Mexico, scoring seven times and was among 23 players selected by coach Ricardo La Volpe, to play in the 2006 FIFA World Cup. Arellano played one match throughout the tournament and only appeared in the 2nd half as a substitute player in a 0–0 draw, against Angola.

Jesus Arellano is the seventh Mexican player and the first one to be born in Monterrey to play three World Cups: France 98, Korea-Japan 2002 and Germany 2006.

Rape allegations and arrest
In January 2017, Arellano was accused of raping his 16 year old niece. The minor had provided testimony to authorities and had undergone physical examinations that prompted an investigation. Arellano was arrested in his home in Monterrey on May 4, 2019, after being on the run for over a year. Arellano was in jail for 5 days before being ordered free by a judge due to lack of sufficient evidence. On December 19, 2019, the case was reopened.

In December 2020, Arellano had only his lawyers present in the court to represent him. Authorities issued an arrest warrant the following month for Arellano. As of April 2022, his whereabouts remain unknown.

Honours
Monterrey
 * Mexican Primera División: Clausura 2003, Apertura 2009, Apertura 2010
 * InterLiga: 2010
 * CONCACAF Champions League: 2010–11
 * CONCACAF Cup Winners Cup: 1993

Mexico
 * FIFA Confederations Cup: 1999
 * CONCACAF Gold Cup: 2003

Individual
 * CONCACAF Gold Cup Most Valuable Player: 2003
 * CONCACAF Gold Cup Best XI: 2003

International goals

 * Scores and results list Mexico's goal tally first.

title: Jesús Arellano


text:
List of MLW diesel locomotives

Following is a list of diesel locomotives built by the Montreal Locomotive Works, a Canadian subsidiary of the American Locomotive Company from 1904-1964. From 1964-1975 the company was known as MLW-Worthington and was owned by Bombardier from 1975 until its closure in 1985.

TURBO series
See also MLW TURBO

title: List of MLW diesel locomotives