text:
Laurens van der Post

Sir Laurens Jan van der Post, (13 December 1906 – 15 December 1996)  was a South African Afrikaner writer, farmer, soldier, educator, journalist, humanitarian, philosopher, explorer and conservationist. He was noted for his interest in Jungianism and the Kalahari Bushmen, his experiences during World War II, as well as his relationships with notable figures such as King Charles III and British Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher. After his death, there was controversy over claims that he had exaggerated many aspects of his life, as well as his sexual abuse and impregnation of a 14-year-old girl.

Early years and education
Van der Post was born in the small town of Philippolis in the Orange River Colony, the post-Boer War British name for what had previously been the Afrikaner Orange Free State in what is today South Africa. His father, Christiaan Willem Hendrik van der Post (1856–1914), a Hollander from Leiden, had emigrated to South Africa with his parents and married Johanna Lubbe in 1889. The van der Posts had a total of 13 children, with Laurens being the 13th. The fifth son, Christiaan, was a lawyer and politician who fought in the Second Boer War against the British. After the Second Boer War, he was exiled with his family to Stellenbosch, where Laurens was conceived. They returned to Philippolis, in the Orange River Colony, where he was born in 1906.

He spent his early childhood years on the family farm, and acquired a taste for reading from his father's extensive library, which included Homer and Shakespeare. His father died in August 1914. In 1918, van der Post went to school at Grey College in Bloemfontein. There, he wrote, it was a great shock to him that he was "being educated into something which destroyed the sense of common humanity I shared with the black people". In 1925, he took his first job as a reporter in training at The Natal Advertiser in Durban, where his reporting included his own accomplishments playing on the Durban and Natal field hockey teams. In 1926, he and two other rebellious writers, Roy Campbell and William Plomer, published a satirical magazine called Voorslag (whip lash) which criticised imperialist systems; it lasted for three issues before being forced to shut down because of its controversial views. Later that year he took off for three months with Plomer and sailed to Tokyo and back on a Japanese freighter, the Canada Maru, an experience which produced books by both authors later in life.

In 1927, van der Post met Marjorie Edith Wendt (d. 1995), daughter of the founder and conductor of the Cape Town Orchestra. The couple traveled to England and on 8 March 1928, married at Bridport, Dorset. A son was born on 26 December, named Jan Laurens (later known as John). In 1929, van der Post returned to South Africa to work for the Cape Times, a newspaper in Cape Town, where "For the time being Marjorie and I are living in the most dire poverty that exists," he wrote in his journal. He began to associate with bohemians and intellectuals who were opposed to James Hertzog (Prime Minister) and the white South African policy. In an article entitled 'South Africa in the Melting Pot', which clarified his views of the South Africa racial problem, he said "The white South African has never consciously believed that the native should ever become his equal." However, he predicted that "the process of leveling up and inter-mixture must accelerate continually ... the future civilization of South Africa is, I believe, neither black or white but brown."

The Bloomsbury influence
In 1931, van der Post returned to England. His friend, Plomer, had been published by the Hogarth Press, a business run by the married couple Leonard Woolf and the novelist Virginia Woolf. The Woolfs were members of the literary and artistic Bloomsbury group, and through Plomer's introductions, van der Post also met figures such as Arthur Waley, J. M. Keynes and E. M. Forster.

In 1934, the Woolfs published van der Post's first novel. Called In a Province, it portrayed the tragic consequences of a racially and ideologically divided South Africa. Later that year, he decided to become a dairy farmer and, possibly with the help of the independently wealthy poet Lilian Bowes Lyon, bought Colley Farm, near Tetbury, Gloucestershire, with Lilian as his neighbor. There he divided his time between the needs of the cows and occasional visits to London, where he was a correspondent for South African newspapers. He considered this a directionless phase in his life which mirrored Europe's slow drift to war.

In 1936, he made five trips to South Africa and during one trip he met and fell in love with Ingaret Giffard (1902–1997), an English actress and author four years his senior. In 1938 he sent his family back to South Africa. When the Second World War began in 1939, he found himself torn between England and South Africa, his new love and his family; his career was at a dead end, and he was in depressed spirits, often drinking heavily.

War service
In May 1940, van der Post volunteered for the British Army and upon completion of officer training in January 1941 he was sent to East Africa in the Intelligence Corps as a captain. There he took up with General Wingate's Gideon Force which was given the task of restoring the Emperor Haile Selassie to his throne in Abyssinia. His unit led 11,000 camels through difficult mountain terrain and he was remembered for being an excellent caretaker of the animals. In March, he came down with malaria and was sent to Palestine to recover.

In early 1942, as Japanese forces invaded South East Asia, van der Post was transferred to Allied forces in the Dutch East Indies (Indonesia), because of his Dutch language skills. By his own statement, he was given command of Special Mission 43, the purpose of which was to organise the covert evacuation of as many Allied personnel as possible, after the surrender of Java.

On 20 April 1942, he surrendered to the Japanese. He was taken to prison camps first at Sukabumi and then to Bandung. Van der Post was known for his work in maintaining the morale of prisoners of many different nationalities. Along with others, he organised a "camp university" with courses from basic literacy to degree-standard ancient history, and he also organized a camp farm to supplement nutritional needs. He could speak some basic Japanese, which helped him greatly. Once, depressed, he wrote in his diary: "It is one of the hardest things in this prison life: the strain caused by being continually in the power of people who are only half-sane and live in a twilight of reason and humanity." He wrote about his prison experiences in A Bar of Shadow (1954), The Seed and the Sower (1963) and The Night of the New Moon (1970). Japanese film director Nagisa Ōshima based his film Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence (1982) on The Seed and the Sower.

Following the surrender of Japan, while his fellow POWs were repatriated, van der Post chose to remain in Java, and on 15 September 1945, he joined Admiral Wilfrid Patterson on HMS Cumberland (57) for the official surrender of the Japanese in Java to British forces representing the Allies.

Van der Post then spent two years helping to mediate between Indonesian nationalists and members of the Dutch Colonial Government. He had gained the trust of the nationalist leaders such as Mohammad Hatta and Sukarno and warned both British Prime Minister Clement Attlee and the Allied Supreme Commander in South East Asia, Admiral Lord Louis Mountbatten, whom he met in London in October 1945, that the country was on the verge of blowing up. Van der Post travelled to The Hague to repeat his warning directly to the Dutch cabinet. In November 1946, British forces withdrew and van der Post became military attaché to the British consulate in Batavia. By 1947, after he had returned to England, the Indonesian Revolution had begun. That same year, van der Post retired from the army and was made a CBE. The events of these early post-war years in Java are examined in his memoir The Admiral's Baby (1996).

Post-war life
With the war over and his business with the army concluded, van der Post returned to South Africa in late 1947 to work at the Natal Daily News, but with the election of the National Party and the onset of apartheid he traveled back to London. He later published a critique of apartheid (The Dark Eye in Africa, 1955), basing many of his insights on his developing interest in psychology. In May 1949, he was commissioned by the Colonial Development Corporation (CDC) to "assess the livestock capacities of the uninhabited Nyika and Mulanje plateaux of Nyasaland" (now part of Malawi). Around this time he divorced Marjorie, and on 13 October 1949, married Ingaret Giffard.

When he was 46 in 1953, van der Post sexually abused a 14-year-old girl named Bonnie, whom he was given responsibility for during a sea voyage to England. He later abandoned her after he impregnated her. The girl subsequently gave birth to a daughter, Cari Mostert. Van der Post gave the mother a small allowance and met his daughter on several occasions, but never publicly acknowledged her.

He went on honeymoon with Ingaret to Switzerland, where his new wife introduced him to Carl Jung. Jung was to have probably a greater influence on him than anybody else, and he later said that he had never met anyone of Jung's stature. He continued to work on a travel book about his Nyasaland adventures called Venture to the Interior, which became an immediate best-seller in the US and Europe upon its publication in 1952.

In 1950, Lord Reith (head of the CDC) asked van der Post to head an expedition to Bechuanaland (now Botswana), to see the potential of the remote Kalahari Desert for cattle ranching. There van der Post for the first time met the hunter-gatherer people known as the Bushmen or San people. He repeated the journey to the Kalahari in 1952. In 1953, he published his third book, The Face Beside the Fire, a semi-autobiographical novel about a psychologically "lost" artist in search of his soul and soul-mate, which clearly shows Jung's influence on his thinking and writing.

Flamingo Feather (1955) was an anti-communist novel in the guise of a Buchanesque adventure story, about a Soviet plot to take over South Africa. It sold very well. Alfred Hitchcock planned to film the book, but lost support from South African authorities and gave up the idea. Penguin Books kept Flamingo Feather in print until the collapse of the Soviet Union.

In 1955, the BBC commissioned van der Post to return to the Kalahari in search of the Bushmen, a journey that became a six-part television documentary series in 1956. In 1958, his best-known book was published under the same title as the BBC series: The Lost World of the Kalahari. He followed this in 1961 by The Heart of the Hunter, derived from Specimens of Bushman Folklore (1910), collected by Wilhelm Bleek and Lucy Lloyd, and Mantis and His Hunter, collected by Dorothea Bleek.

Van der Post described the Bushmen as the original natives of southern Africa, outcast and persecuted by all other races and nationalities. He said they represented the "lost soul" of all mankind, a type of noble savage myth. This mythos of the Bushmen inspired the colonial government to create the Central Kalahari Game Reserve in 1961 to guarantee their survival, and the reserve became a part of settled law when Botswana was created in 1966.

Later years
Van der Post had become a respected television personality, had introduced the world to the Kalahari Bushmen, and was considered an authority on Bushman folklore and culture. "I was compelled towards the Bushmen," he said, "like someone who walks in his sleep, obedient to a dream of finding in the dark what the day has denied him." Over the next fifteen years, he had a steady stream of publications, including the two books drawn from his war experiences (see above), a travel book called A Journey into Russia (1964) describing a long trip through the Soviet Union, and two novels of adventure set on the fringes of the Kalahari desert, A Story Like the Wind (1972) and its sequel A Far-Off Place (1974). The latter books, about four young people, two of them San, caught up in violent events on the borders of 1970s Rhodesia, became popular as class readers in secondary schools. In 1972, there was a BBC television series about his 12-year friendship with Jung, who died in 1961, which was followed by the book Jung and the Story of Our Time (1976).

Ingaret and he moved to Aldeburgh, Suffolk, where they became involved with a circle of friends that included an introduction to then-Prince Charles, whom he then took on a safari to Kenya in 1977 and with whom he had a close and influential friendship for the rest of his life. Also in 1977, together with Ian Player, a South African conservationist, he created the first World Wilderness Congress in Johannesburg. In 1979, his Chelsea neighbor Margaret Thatcher became prime minister, and she called on his advice with matters dealing with southern Africa, particularly the Rhodesia settlement of 1979–80. In 1981, he was given a Knighthood. He was made godfather to Prince William.

In 1982, he fell and injured his back and used the hiatus from tennis and skiing to write an autobiography called Yet Being Someone Other (1982), which discussed his love of the sea and his journey to Japan with Plomer in 1926. (His affection for that country and its people, despite his wartime experiences, had first been explored in 1968 in his book Portrait of Japan.) By now, Ingaret was slipping into senility, and he spent much time with the sculptor Frances Baruch, an old friend (who made a bust of van der Post). In 1984, his son John (who had gone on to be an engineer in London) died, and van der Post spent time with his youngest daughter Lucia and her family.

In old age, Sir Laurens van der Post was involved with many projects, from the worldwide conservationist movement, to setting up a centre of Jungian studies in Cape Town. A Walk with a White Bushman (1986), the transcript of a series of interviews, gives a taste of his appeal as a conversationalist. In 1996, he tried to prevent the eviction of the Bushmen from their homeland in the Central Kalahari Game Reserve, which had been set up for that purpose, but ironically it was his work in the 1950s to promote the land for cattle ranching that led to their eventual removal. In October 1996, he published The Admiral's Baby, describing the events in Java at the end of the war. His 90th birthday celebration was spread over five days in Colorado, with a "this is your life"-type event with friends from every period of his life. A few days later, on 15 December 1996, after whispering in Afrikaans "die sterre" (the stars), he died. The funeral took place on 20 December in London, attended by Zulu chief Mangosuthu Buthelezi, Prince Charles, Margaret Thatcher, and many friends and family. His ashes were buried in a special memorial garden at Philippolis on 4 April 1998. Ingaret died five months after him on 5 May 1997.

Laurens van de Post Way, built on the former Joint Services School of Intelligence site in Ashford, Kent, is named after him.

Posthumous controversy
After van der Post’s death a number of writers questioned the accuracy of his claims about his life. His reputation as a "modern sage" and "guru" was questioned, and journalists published examples of embellishment of the truth in his memoirs and travel books. J. D. F. Jones, in his authorised biography Storyteller: The Lives of Laurens van der Post (2001), claimed that van der Post was "a fraud, a fantasist, a liar, a serial adulterer and a paternalist. He falsified his Army record and inflated his own importance at every possible opportunity." A rebuttal was published by Christopher Booker (van der Post's ODNB biographer and friend) in The Spectator.

While conducting research for van der Post’s biography with the permission of his daughter Lucia, Jones found documents confirming that van der Post had fathered a daughter with a 14-year-old girl named Bonnie, who had been entrusted to his care by her parents for a sea voyage between South Africa and England. Van der Post never acknowledged the existence of the child, nor his relationship to her, but did pay Bonnie a yearly stipend. The child, Cari Mostert, publicly came out to support Jones's biographical account in 1996, after Van Der Post's death.

Selected works
For a complete list see External links.

 * In a Province; novel (1934; reprinted 1953).
 * Venture to the Interior; travel (1952).
 * The Face Beside the Fire; novel (1953).
 * A Bar of Shadow; novella (1954).
 * Flamingo Feather; novel (1955).
 * The Dark Eye in Africa; politics, psychology (1955).
 * The Lost World of the Kalahari; travel (1958) [BBC 6-part TV series, 1956].
 * The Heart of the Hunter; travel, folklore (1961).
 * The Seed and the Sower; three novellas (1963).
 * A Journey into Russia (US title: A View of All the Russias); travel (1964).
 * A Portrait of Japan; travel (1968).
 * The Night of the New Moon (US title: The Prisoner and the Bomb); wartime memoirs (1970).
 * A Story Like the Wind; novel (1972).
 * A Far-Off Place; novel, sequel to the above (1974).
 * Jung and the Story of Our Time; psychology, memoir (1975).
 * Yet Being Someone Other; memoir, travel (1982).
 * A Walk with A White Bushman; interview-transcripts (1986).
 * The Admiral's Baby; memoir (1996).

Movies
Film adaptations of his books.

 * Merry Christmas, Mr. Lawrence (1983)—based on The Seed and the Sower (1963) and The Night of the New Moon (1970), about his experience as a prisoner of war. It was directed by Nagisa Ōshima and starred David Bowie.
 * A Far Off Place (1993)—based on A Far-Off Place (1974) and A Story Like the Wind (1972).

title: Laurens van der Post


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St. John's Cathedral

 * This list is for St. John the Evangelist Cathedrals. For St. John the Baptist Cathedrals, see St. John the Baptist Cathedral (disambiguation)

St. John's Cathedral, St. John Cathedral, or Cathedral of St. John, or other variations on the name, with or without the suffix 'the Evangelist', may refer to:

Antigua

 * St. John's Cathedral (Antigua and Barbuda)

Australia

 * St John's Cathedral (Brisbane), in Queensland
 * St John's Cathedral, Parramatta, in Sydney, New South Wales

Belize

 * St. John's Cathedral (Belize City)

Canada

 * St. John Cathedral (Edmonton), Alberta
 * Cathedral of St. John (Winnipeg), Manitoba
 * St. John's Cathedral (Toronto), Ontario
 * Cathedral of St. John the Evangelist (Saskatoon), Saskatchewan

China

 * St John's Cathedral, Langzhong

Cyprus

 * St. John's Cathedral, Nicosia

France

 * Besançon Cathedral (Cathédrale Saint-Jean de Besançon)

Hong Kong

 * St John's Cathedral (Hong Kong)

Hungary

 * Cathedral Basilica of St. John the Apostle, Eger

India

 * St. John's Cathedral, Tiruvalla

Ireland

 * St John's Cathedral (Limerick)

Malaysia

 * St. John's Cathedral (Kuala Lumpur)

Malta

 * Saint John's Co-Cathedral, Valletta

Netherlands

 * St. John's Cathedral ('s-Hertogenbosch)

Philippines

 * Dagupan Cathedral, Pangasinan

Poland

 * St. John's Archcathedral, Warsaw
 * Wrocław Cathedral (Cathedral of St. John the Baptist in Wrocław)

South Africa

 * St John's Cathedral, Mthatha

Taiwan

 * St. John's Cathedral (Chiayi)
 * St. John's Cathedral (Taipei)

Turkey

 * St. John's Cathedral (Izmir)

United Kingdom

 * St John's Cathedral, Oban, Scotland
 * Cathedral of St John the Evangelist, Portsmouth

United States
(by state then city)
 * St. John's Cathedral (Los Angeles), California
 * St. John Cathedral (Fresno, California)
 * Cathedral of St. John in the Wilderness, Denver, Colorado
 * Cathedral Church of St. John (Wilmington, Delaware)
 * St. John's Cathedral (Jacksonville), Florida
 * Cathedral of St. John the Evangelist (Boise, Idaho), listed on the NRHP
 * St. John's Cathedral (Lafayette, Louisiana), listed on the NRHP
 * Cathedral of St. John the Divine, New York City
 * Cathedral Church of St. John (Albuquerque, New Mexico)
 * Cathedral of St. John the Evangelist (Cleveland, Ohio)
 * Cathedral of St. John (Providence, Rhode Island)
 * St. John's Cathedral (Knoxville, Tennessee)
 * Cathedral of St. John the Evangelist (Spokane, Washington)
 * Cathedral of St. John the Evangelist (Milwaukee), Wisconsin

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: St. John's Cathedral


text: Category:Argentine athletes

title: Category:Argentine athletes


text:
Cuyonon language

Cuyonon is a regional Bisayan language spoken on the coast of Palawan and the Cuyo Islands in the Philippines. Cuyonon had been the lingua franca (language used for communication) of the province of Palawan until recently when migration flow into the region rapidly increased. Forty-three percent of the total population of Palawan during the late 1980s spoke and used Cuyonon as a language. Later studies showed a significant decrease in the number of speakers due to an increase of Tagalog-speaking immigrants from Luzon.

The Cuyonon language is classified by the Summer Institute of Linguistics as belonging to the Central Philippine, Western Bisayan, Kuyan subgroup. The largest number of speakers lives in the Cuyo Group of Islands, which is located between northern Palawan and Panay Island.

Vowels
Unlike most Philippine languages, Cuyonon only includes one close vowel. The close vowel only occurs in loanwords from Spanish, either directly or through Tagalog.

Simple greetings

 * Good afternoon – Mayad nga apon
 * Good evening/night – Mayad nga gabi
 * How are you? – Komosta kaw?
 * I'm fine/good and you? – Mayad da, ay ikaw?
 * I'm just fine, by the grace of God – Kaloy' Dios, mayad da.
 * Thank you – Salamat
 * Where are you going? – Adin kaw mapakon?
 * What are you doing? – Agaiwan kaw? / Anono imong ingboboat?
 * Oh, nothing in particular. – Ara ra.
 * Please come in. – Dayon kamo.
 * Long time no see. – Maboay kita ren nga ara ibagatan.

title: Cuyonon language


text: Category:Argentine chess players

title: Category:Argentine chess players


text:
User talk:@w

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Welcome, newcomer!

Here are some useful tips to ease you into the Wikipedia experience:

 * First, take a look at the Wikipedia Tutorial, and perhaps dabble a bit in the test area.
 * When you have some free time, take a look at the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines. They can come in very handy!
 * Remember to use a neutral point of view!
 * If you need any help, feel free to post a question at the Help Desk
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Also, here are some odds and ends that I find useful from time to time:

 * Policy Library
 * Utilities
 * Cite your sources
 * Verifiability
 * Wikiquette
 * Civility
 * Conflict resolution
 * Brilliant prose
 * Pages needing attention
 * Peer review
 * Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense
 * Village pump
 * Boilerplate text

Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can most easily reach me by posting on my talk page.

You can sign your name on any page by typing 4 tildes, likes this: ~~~~.

Best of luck, and have fun!

ClockworkSoul 10:01, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:@w


text:
User talk:Wakowill

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Welcome, newcomer!

Here are some useful tips to ease you into the Wikipedia experience:

 * First, take a look at the Wikipedia Tutorial, and perhaps dabble a bit in the test area.
 * When you have some free time, take a look at the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines. They can come in very handy!
 * Remember to use a neutral point of view!
 * If you need any help, feel free to post a question at the Help Desk
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Also, here are some odds and ends that I find useful from time to time:

 * Policy Library
 * Utilities
 * Cite your sources
 * Verifiability
 * Wikiquette
 * Civility
 * Conflict resolution
 * Brilliant prose
 * Pages needing attention
 * Peer review
 * Bad jokes and other deleted nonsense
 * Village pump
 * Boilerplate text

Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can most easily reach me by posting on my talk page.

You can sign your name on any page by typing 4 tildes, likes this: ~~~~.

Best of luck, and have fun!

ClockworkSoul 10:02, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Those wacky wikilinks
If you want to make LRS link to Long Range Surveillance, you simly put the new name inside the link, seperated by a |, as follows:

LRS

Your result will be this: LRS.

I hope this helps!

-- ClockworkSoul 14:26, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Re: Not quite...
Posted on User_talk:ClockworkSoul

 * Sorry, perhaps I was not being clear. If an article already exists as a name, ie Long Range Surveillance, and I want it to be searchable by a common synonym (LRS) how do I go about that? As it is now, searching for LRS or LRRPS return no results, even though the page exists under a different name.

I think I understand. Perhaps what you wish to create is a "redirect" page.

To do this, create a new article called LRS (click on this red link to do that). In that article, place only the following text:

 * #REDIRECT Long Range Surveillance

Whenever anybody goes to the "LRS" page, they will be automagically forwarded to Long Range Surveillance!

I hope this help more than the last info I gave you... feel free to ask again if I'm still being dense. – ClockworkSoul 08:53, 2 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Education in Palm Beach County
I reverted your edit as it included no references, and some of it appears to violate the policy on maintaining a neutral point of view in articles. --  Dalbury ( Talk )  21:02, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

hi
Hi wakowill, welcome to wikipedia. From 1 Palm beach county grad (went to dreyfoos) and CIB winner ( 3/124th infantry/RSTA ) to another, I wanted to say what's up. Swatjester 14:27, 3 February 2006 (UTC)

FPC/ultilayout
Hey, thanks for making the nomination. Have you contacted the photographer about a larger image, suitable for FPC? Great free publicity for Scobel, I say. --Christopherlin 23:53, 7 March 2006 (UTC)

I have not, but I invite you to do it. scobel235@aol.com. I already bothered him a little i think in getting the picture up. Leppy 13:08, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

 * Okay, will do. I wanted to make sure he wasn't getting double requests. :-> --Christopherlin 14:51, 8 March 2006 (UTC) ... and done. --Christopherlin 17:23, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Beer cat question
It has been suggested by User:BrianSmithson and supported by User:Syrthiss that the Beer and brewery categories should be renamed. This proposal has been supported and expanded by myself. The notion is that the regional categories should follow the format of "Beer and breweries in Africa" /Europe/Asia/North America/South America/Oceania. "Brewers and breweries" could also be renamed "Beer and breweries by region". And all the countries should also be renamed (and merged if needed) as, for example, "Beer and breweries of Germany", "Beer and breweries of Britain", "Beer and breweries of Poland". The word in each case would be beer rather than beers to allow for general articles on beer culture in each region as well as individual beers.

Comments, suggestions, objections, free beer and simple votes to Wiki Beer Project SilkTork 15:29, 3 April 2006 (UTC)

Image:Slipped Discs.jpg
This image was copyrighten, not copyrighten, use for any purpose. It has been removed. -- Zanimum 19:26, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

 * Ditto Image:Degenerative disc options.jpg, which I've also removed.

 * It may please you to know that the misleading article has been replaced with one using proper terminology: spinal disc herniation, with a short note about "slipped disc." -- Fyslee 18:06, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

Frisbee
Why did you revert from my addition to the frisbee page? Did you even check the links? It's not a joke entry. Or did you just believe the information did not belong on that page? I think it's an excellent addition to the frisbee page. -Michael MEJ119

Beer poll
Hi! Your vote/opinion on brewery notability is requested here: SilkTork 12:32, 20 July 2006 (UTC)

Possibly unfree Image:UltiClubNationals05Layout.jpg
An image that you uploaded or altered, Image:UltiClubNationals05Layout.jpg, has been listed at Possibly unfree images because its copyright status is disputed. If the image's copyright status cannot be verified, it may be deleted. You may find more information on the image description page. You are welcome to add comments to its entry at if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Jusjih (talk) 01:57, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Georgia Institute of Technology Featured Article Nomination
User:Lamenta3 and I have nominated Georgia Institute of Technology for Featured Article status. Please improve the article and contribute to the discussion. —Disavian (talk/contribs) 16:03, 27 July 2009 (UTC)

title: User talk:Wakowill


text:
Heim theory

Heim theory, first proposed by German physicist Burkhard Heim publicly in 1957, is an attempt to develop a theory of everything in theoretical physics. The theory claims to bridge some of the disagreements between quantum mechanics and general relativity. The theory has received little attention in the scientific literature and is regarded as being outside mainstream science  but has attracted some interest in popular and fringe media.

Development
Heim attempted to resolve incompatibilities between quantum theory and general relativity. To meet that goal, he developed a mathematical approach based on quantizing spacetime. Others have attempted to apply Heim theory to nonconventional space propulsion and faster than light concepts, as well as the origin of dark matter.

Heim claimed that his theory yields particle masses directly from fundamental physical constants and that the resulting masses are in agreement with experiment, but this claim has not been confirmed. Heim's theory is formulated mathematically in six or more dimensions and uses Heim's own version of difference equations.

title: Heim theory


text:
Talk:Melusine

Heraldry and vexillology
Melusine may be within the scope of the WikiProject on Heraldry and Vexillology. Article is not primarily a heraldry or vexillology article. Bejnar 16:51, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Just a note here; does the description of the heraldic melusine not sound almost exactly like the logo for Starbucks® Coffee? I don't know how to reference that into the article as per the standards of Wikipedia, though. :(  While the description seems obvious to me, I think that would make the conclusion "original research" and, so, debarred.  Otoh, I think it is info worth noting in the Wikipedia article.  Please, someone give some guidance on how to do this in the proper fashion.  Thanks.

 * The melusine crops up in some of my post-doctoral studies, in context with Luxemburg legends forming part of late mediaeval belief systems in the general area of Wallonia and surrounding areas. I think you have things just a little back-to-front: in legend, the mélusine is distinguished from the mermaid by having two tails, which are sometimes serpentine. The mermaid is maritime, the mélusine is found exclusively in freshwater rivers. Whether the one supposed real-life instance, the wife of one of the Counts of Luxemburg, was a case of ichthyosis, is an open question of suppositional hypothesis. Other specific legendary candidates were a subject of fascination to several German composers in the neo-Gothic movement in the mid 19th Century, as the general Rhine-based legendary mythologisation (Das Rheingold, for instance) also includes the Lorelei (the subject of works by Clara Schumann and Franz Liszt).
 * The question of the Starbucks logo is a moot point. Although the Company tries to disassociate itself from the possibility of covert imputations from the wider satanic symbolicism of the subject (just as Proctor and Gamble do), https://www.starbucks.co.uk/ explicitly shows a female with two tails, and some of the legends and slightly harder mediaeval creed elements stretch that into areas of para-paedophilia. I am personally of the opinion that if you pick a logo which brings baggage with it, then you only have yourself to blame if the connotations are unhelpful to your marketing objectives, I rather object to the mindless self-exculpatory nature of irresponsible marketing offering an escape route to criminals. The source of the logo was clear, so if they were too lazy to check, thats their look out.

Generic or Idiosyncratic
OK, I don't get why the author(s) of this article chose to refer to "melusine" as a generic word for two-tailed mermaids. From what I've seen, Melusine is always a proper name and should be treated as such, with a capital letter. I've not heard of people referring to two-tailed mermaids as melusines before. Someone have a reference for this, or is it original research/name-making? DreamGuy 10:02, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * Additional already-published details, with sources, in the article should quell any authentic concerns. Nothing original here. --Wetman 12:24, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * OK, looks like a fair amount of changes to this since I posted... but I've read it, and I don't see anything to support it in the new additions either. I still want to know if there is any actual source referring to a small letter M "melusine" as a generic word for a range of creatures of this type. I don't remember any books I've read using the word as a descriptor instead of a name, and I've read most of the standard references on this character. From looking through the article here and the linked websites I don't see reference to any source using a small m version. Instead of insinuating that my concerns aren't authentic, would you mind explicitly pointing out references that would support the small M usage? DreamGuy 15:21, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)

 * If Lady Melusine flop flop flopped her wet way from Brittany and Poitou to Luxembourg Poland and Silesia, she was one busy girl indeed! When someone says "From what I've seen" without mentioning what that is, my skepticism is always raised. This User has a contributions history that has made him notorious. --Wetman 15:56, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * Mythological and legendary characters often have stories told in different areas, that doesn't mean they are considered a race of beings deserving of a generic descriptor. The "flop flop" comment is nonsensical, because we aren't talking about a real person, but different stories. Stories move around and get localized without anyone thinking that there was a whole bunch of these creatures running around, they just think theirs is right and others are wrong. You made the claim that "melusine" is a generic term for two-tailed mermaids, you should provide the source to back it up. I can't prove a negative, all I can say is that my memory of all the standard sources and all the pages with links on this article all show you as being incorrect here. You may well be right, but you haven't shown that to be the case. I don't know why you persist on making personal attacks instead of responding to my concern. Please provide a scholarly reference that backs up your usage. DreamGuy 09:26, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)
 * I am taking Melusine off my watchlist, knowing that, without an atmosphere of contention User:DreamGuy will quickly lose interest in a subject where this self-confessed "Eclectic scholar, published author, and all around nice guy" has not as of Dec 15 2004 contributed one word (see Page history}. A glance at this User's own User contributions reveals his normal concentration on contentious Talk pages, and reversions and deletions of other work as "irrelevant" etc.. There are few contributions from [User:DreamGuy]]. Any damage he does here can be repaired in a few months anyway.--Wetman 09:50, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * So... what you are saying is that you have no reference to support your side and all you can do is make more insults and false accusations...? My list of contributions are extensive for my short time here as a registered user, and while I do end up patrolling articles where people keep trying to put their bias in (like people trying to change the Deluge (mythology) page to advance their religion, or those who believe that any mention of a controversy over someone's life is negative and doesn't belong), that's not due to a love of conflict, it's a dedication for having things done objectively. I will not damage this article, I was simply asking if anyone could support the claims that are made within it. Since you cannot, and what you say is contrary to the sources I have read on the topic (as well as the sites that have links on this page), I am going to fix it. If you come back with a reference to support your side, great. If you come back in a few months and try to "repair" it by reintroducing opinions that you don't have references to support, then you will be the one trying to damage it. I'm sorry if my asking for a reference to support your opinion has offended you, but then it's not my fault if you choose to take offense to the idea of having a scholarly basis for what you write. DreamGuy 17:06, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)

Aaaanyway, I wondered if the use of Melusina in A.S. Byatt's Possession was worth adding to the article. --Nick Douglas 04:02, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I've come across references to Melusine/Melucine in historical novels, particularly those of Sharon Penman, in which she is claimed to be Lucifer's daughter, from whom the Counts of Anjou and England's Plantagenet dynasty descend. does anyone have any info on this? Nudge67 (talk) 05:45, 12 July 2008 (UTC)
 * No actual verifiable info, of course, since this is all legend, but that is part of the legend in its broadest form. The Lucifer reference is clearly an attempt to bring a pre-Christian myth into the Christian sphere and connect it with evil. There are (what you might call) nutty people of European descent who claim to have Dragon Princess blood or heritage even in the present day. Most of this (including fantasy/historical novels) is best ignored in wikipedia.  I'd like to see the dates in the article reconciled to make it clear that the Melusina of the 700's was the source of the legend of Melusina in Scotland in the "time of the Crusades", or was it an independent legend of the same folkloric nature, because the article suggests that the Scots Melusina, (or the Melusina of Guy of Lusignan (c. 1150 – 18 July 1194)?) went back to the mainland, or somehow went back in time and when "Count Siegfried of the Ardennes bought the feudal rights to Luxembourg in 963, his name became connected with the local version of Melusine."  This is all very confusing.  72.177.123.145 (talk) 19:16, 4 June 2013 (UTC) Eric

 * In Sabine Baring-Gould's Curious Tales of the Middle Ages, the core Melusine myth (and the one common to all other records of it) is "Melusine is seen by a nobleman, they marry - after the nobleman swears never to look in on her in her bath, the nobleman breaks his oath, and Melusine leaves".

 * A significant number of these stories have her sprouting wings and flying away, at least one has her taking an entirely different form - becoming a dragon. So she's also one of the shapeshifters of human myth. While some cultures link that to evil, "daughter of Satan/Lucifer/the Devil" doesn't appear in Baring-Gould's chapter on Melusine. The different tales of Melusine common to each nation argue for a separate melusine (the generic form not capitalized) but I'm choosing to defer, while editing our article, to speak simply of "Melusine" unless we have more than one authoritative, reliable source who says there are more than one.

 * Baring-Gould lists merfolk myths from aboriginal North America to Japan, sufficiently different from Melusine as she is described in the Poitou/Luxembourg myths they certainly deserve separate mention (if we mentioned them at all). I'd feel better about putting the idea of more than one melusine in the article if we could find more than one source attesting to it, and admittedly, I have not read the other sources. It's a project I'll undertake soon.

 * Likewise, if we can find a good reliable source referring to Melusine myth depicting her as the daughter of Lucifer/Satan/the Devil, fine. That belongs at this point, however, in the section "Literary versions", because that's where we find published mention of her Satanic heritage. The closest I can come so far is mention of some of the ur-sources for the mermaid myth being linked with Moloch.  If I'm wrong, please give the published source that cites this as an actual myth, not the invention of a novelist.  I'll be looking on this end, too. Patricia de Chenier (talk) 22:51, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Mendelssohn's Overture 'The Fair Melusine'
Hi, thanks for the page on Melusine. In case anybody want to add it to the article, Mendelssohn wrote an Overture (Op.32) based on the Melusine myth, called Die Schöne Melusine or The Fair Melusine (composed 1833 for the Philharmonic Society, London, revised 1834-5 for performance in Leipzig) Orlando Jopling

To my knowledge, there are not many available English language texts of Melusine. A rough translation of Coudrette's Melsuine can be found here: http://www.isnull.com/bathesis/

Melusine disambiguation
I created a page about the Belgian comic book series Mélusine today, so I guess a disambiguation page is needed? Because as far as I can see, Melusine is the name of both a mythological creature and a comic book character, AND the partial name of an asteroid? Since I'm new to Wikipedia (at least the editing part), I was wondering how to go about setting that up? Would it be best to rename this page Melusine (mythological) or something like that? Anyway, I thought it was best to ask here - if any of you could help, it'd be much appreciated! - Bender of spoons 21:01, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

 * I've created a disambiguation page. Since this usage predates the others by far, I've made this the main article with a link to the disambiguation page. On the disambiguation page, I've created a link to this article and the Mélusine (comic) page.  I couldn't find the asteroid page, so you should make that edit on the disambiguation page. Val42 15:35, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Starbucks Logo ??
Anyone aware of any info on the Starbucks coffee logo with regard to heraldry? The "Starbucks" mermaid appears, as national heraldry, on a 17th(?) century space-heater stove (vaguely similar to ), exhibited in the Vilnius Valdovu Rumai. The stove is covered with a repeated pattern of ceramic tiles; one tile shows the Lithuanian Vytis, a second the Polish Eagle coat of arms, a third tile shows the Starbucks mermaid. The first two tiles clearly signify the Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth of the 16th-18th centuries. The mermaid is presented as an equal, in size, proportion, and frequency, of the other two coats-of-arms: it is clearly a coat of arms signifying some or another political/geographical region in union with the commonwealth. But which part? I'm guessing parts of the Belarus, or possibly parts of northern Europe; I'm not clear on which, and thus pose the question here (of course, the stove could well be a bit of 17th century propaganda, as it were -- making the pretension that the mermaid was on par with the Vytis and the Eagle). Would love to know more. I presume that there is no chance at all that the mermaid is that of the Jurate and Kastytis legend, but given the age of the legend, and of the logo, I wonder ... linas (talk) 21:09, 15 July 2010 (UTC)

Meluzina in the Hungarian Literature
The great Hungarian writer, Kalman Mikszath mention the story in his short novel: How did I become a writer? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 145.236.3.194 (talk) 10:27, 23 July 2011 (UTC)

 * We can add that, if you like. I'm leaning toward the "more than one" theory on the grounds that each national Melusine myth may be unique to the people who tell it. But you'll have to show where Mikszath mentions it.  Please name the short novel and give us all the bibliographic reference information: name of author as it appears on the novel, place of publication, time of publication, name of publisher, and page(s) in which the story is mentioned.  Thanks!  Patricia de Chenier (talk) 19:39, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

Expansion of the Lede Paragraph to Include Royal Houses Said to be Descended from Melusine
A box over our article posted on October 2016 says:
 * "This article's lead section does not adequately summarize key points of its contents. Please consider expanding the lead to provide an accessible overview of all important aspects of the article. Please discuss this issue on the article's talk page."

I expanded the lede by mentioning another noble house said (in Curious Tales from the Middle Ages by Sabine Baring-Gould) to be descended from Melusine, the House of Luxembourg, and the lands over which they and the House of Lusignan ruled (to underline their notability).

I also added a second paragraph to the lede which summarizes the common features of stories about Melusine:
 * marriage to mortals of noble blood,
 * an oath binding the husband never to look at Melusine (or her daughters) in their bath, to conceal her true nature and mermaid-like features,
 * Melusine leaving her husband or father after he breaks that oath,
 * usually by shapeshifting into another form (often a dragon) and flying away.

Does this satisfy the conditions for removal of the tag at the top of the article? Patricia de Chenier (talk) 02:20, 6 November 2017 (UTC)

 * I've removed the tag. We have a good lede satisfying the conditions listed in the tag now. Patricia de Chenier (talk) 22:54, 21 November 2017 (UTC)

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A Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion
The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page has been nominated for deletion: Participate in the deletion discussion at the. —Community Tech bot (talk) 04:22, 13 August 2019 (UTC)
 * Bookofmelusine.jpg

 * The consensus on this file at nomination page was "Keep" and the nomination was closed without further action. Patricia de Chenier (talk) 10:16, 8 October 2019 (UTC)

Descendants
It's repeated many times through this article that many houses have claimed to be descended from Melusine, but are there any sources that claim a supposed lineage. Who do they claim were her children? EmilySarah99 (talk) 09:56, 26 September 2022 (UTC)

European folklore or just French?
Definitely never heard of this creature in Slavic folklore. Sounds like French only so it should not say European folklore as a whole. 102.117.77.223 (talk) 09:17, 10 February 2024 (UTC)
 * French, German, Luxembourgish, and British. -- Willthacheerleader18 (talk) 13:46, 21 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Melusine


text:
Vișeu de Sus

Vișeu de Sus (Oberwischau; Felsővisó; Ви́шово-Ви́жнє; אויבערווישא or Ober Wisho or Ojberwischo) is a town in Maramureș County, Maramureș, Romania, located at the confluence of the rivers Vișeu and Vaser. It administers one village, Vișeu de Mijloc (Középvisó). The town has an area of 443 km2 and a population of 15,349 as of 2021. It is best known for the Mocăniță.

Demographics
According to the 2011 census, the total population of the town was 15,037. The town is situated in a hilly area and therefore most of the people live in the valleys with their settlements as follows:

 * Țipțerai and Valea Poieniței
 * Valea Vinului (1,000 inhabitants)
 * Valea Vaserului (800 inhabitants)
 * Valea Peștilor (500 inhabitants)
 * Valea Scradei (700 inhabitants)
 * Vișeu de Mijloc (1,900 inhabitants)
 * Valea Botoaia, Arșița (500 inhabitants)
 * Rădeasa (900 inhabitants)

Town council
The town's current local council has the following multi-party political composition, based on the results of the votes cast at the 2020 Romanian local elections:

Forestry railway
Vișeu de Sus is the terminus of a forestry railway system that extends deep into the Vaser River valley approaching the Ukrainian border. Timber is cut on the hillsides at the head of the valley and brought down by rail for cutting in the sawmill at Vișeu. The waste wood is burned in the locomotive boilers. The nearest national railway (CFR standard gauge) passenger station is at Vișeu de Jos, 4 km away, on the line 409 from Salva to Sighetu Marmației. The passenger branch to Borșa (via Vișeu de Sus itself), although closed to passengers in 2009, remains mostly intact (as of 2014) for freight.

The railway serves also for public transport between Vișeu de Sus and Paltin (terminus station for public). Trains go every day during spring and summer (from 20 June to 18 September), the departure is at 9 am. The stations on the way from Vișeu de Sus are: Novat, Novat Delta, Glimboaca, Cozia, and Paltin.

Trains may be delayed or cancelled without prior warning due to bad weather or Mountain Rescue advice.

History
The town of Viseu de Sus, according to most authors of monographs, is documented from February 2, 1365 (Ketwyssou). This first mention of Vișeu de Sus as a settlement appears in the diploma of the King Louis I of Hungary. According to other authors, the settlement was documented since 1549, under the name of Vișeul Nou (The New Vișeu) or Între Râuri (Between Rivers), being situated at the confluence of the two rivers – name met until the beginning of the 20th century.

In 1373, the border of Vișeu de Sus and Borșa is marked, and in 1385 there appears Vișeu de Jos. The year 1453 is the one in which John Hunyadi, the Voivode of Transylvania and the governor of Hungary, gives Vișeu de Sus to the three knezes Ștefan, Petru Mândru, and Nan (Nașcu) and their brothers.

The evolution of the town itself starts after the year 1770, when there is established forestry centers with workers in Vişeu and Borșa – "țipțeri" colonists – from Spiš, brought to Vișeu by order of Joseph II, Holy Roman Emperor.

In 1743, in Vișeu de Sus there are settled miners from Saxony and establishes exploitation of ores. In 1773, in Vișeu there is established a logging exploitation center, colonized with "sași" (Transylvanian Saxons) from Spiš.

In 1775, in Vișeu there are settled German families from Austria (Salzburg and Tyrol). Between 1776 and 1794, the first colonists from Salzkammergut come. In 1778, 25 families from Gmunden settled in the village, mostly with many children. In 1780 the first construction by the newcomers were made such as: First mill in the east side of the city; the construction of the dam above Măcârlău begins, construction which would end in 1784, year when other families from Bavaria settle in Vișeu de Sus. Jews from Galicia also settled in Vișeu de Sus in the 18th century and worked primarily in the lumber industry.

In 1788, the elementary school of the treasury in Vișeu de Sus is established, and in 1790 the dam at Făina is built, as well as the first Roman Catholic parish in Vișeu. In 1798, the first general school is open. The work of the "țipțeri" is materialized also with the first timber factory (built in 1809), the state store (deposit) built in 1817. Between 1809 and 1810, the new neighborhood "Țipțerai" is formed and populated.

The population of German and Austrian origin rose drastically and permanently, based on documents. In the 1930 census of Romania there were registered 2.753 Germans, making up 24,84% of the total population. At the census of 1977, there are 3,430 Germans in Vișeu de Sus, making up 16.97% of the total population. In 1920, the Jewish population of Vișeu de Sus was 3,912, making up 34% of the population.

The Zipser Germans were brought to Vișeu firstly as forestry workers. At 14, boys started their work in the forest. At Valea Vaserului, the Zipsers planted spruce. They took care of nurseries, deforested forests, sent rafts on the water to Sighet, Vișeu, and Borșa, they built rafts, roads, and wooden bridges. At easier works, women would help too. The hardest and dirtiest job was cutting down the forest and clearing the spruce trunks, and the most tempting for men was rafting.

Considering the long time the workers had to spend in the forest, an establishment in Valea Vaserului was a need. The settlement on Vaser represents the closest connection with the history and tradition of today's Zipsers. In this area several stories originated, among them: fata pădurii (forest's girl), omul alb (white human), piticul pădurii (forest's dwarf).

The stories of this ethnic group and the memories of the elders, as well as the documents, bear witness to a hard, primitive life of these people in the past. After 1868, Magyarization affected many Zipsers, some changed their names at the time with others of Magyar resonance.

The Jewish population was also engaged in the lumber industry. Between 1918 and 1939, Jewish-owned lumber mills employed hundreds of Jews and non-Jews.

In Vișeu de Sus, the exploitation of wood has an antiquity that is confused with the antiquity of the city. Even the legend says that more than a thousand years ago, a father and his son went to cut wood from the forest. Unhappiness caused a stick to hit his son dead. In memory of his son, the father built a church on this site. Houses were later built around the church and thus a human settlement took shape, which was called, at first, Între Râuri ("Between Rivers"), because it stretched between the rivers Vișeu and Vaser, and then it was called Vișeu de Sus.

With the arrival of German settlers, the exploitation of forests intensified. These occupations, which brought a certain income and a different social status to the residents, in addition to their occupations as animal breeders, are becoming more and more attractive.

The wood was cut from above with axes, on gutters with water downstream, gathered in dams at Măcârlău and Făina, and from here, formed into rafts, going on the Vaser and further to Tisza. Many of the "țipțieri" colonists practices were followed by Romanians. At the forest, they worked all week long, except on Saturdays when they went down the valley, and sometimes for those who lived further away, the work period was extended to 2–3 months. The "Butinars" (forestry workers) slept in cottages called "finnish", they had the fire in the middle, and the beds were arranged radially so that they could warm up more easily and dry their clothes in the winter. Today, in Valea Vaserului, the wood is transported by narrow gauge railway.

World War II
The situation of the Jews of Vișeu de Sus declined in September 1940, when Hungary took control of the region and Jews were sent to concentration camps in Hungary. During April 1944, the remaining Jewish residents of Vișeu de Sus were sent to ghettos along with the Jews of the surrounding region. Approximately 8,000 Jews were held in a ghetto near Vișeu de Sus. All the Jews were deported from area ghettos to Auschwitz in May 1944. In 1947, there were 800 Jewish survivors living in Vișeu de Sus, but by 1972 the Jewish community ceased to exist.

In 2011, a museum dedicated to the Jews of Vișeu de Sus opened at the site of the former home of Alexander Elefant, a former Jewish resident and timber factory owner. The exhibition presents the history of the Jewish community in Vișeu de Sus up until World War II when they were forcibly deported and sent to Auschwitz.

Geography
Vișeu de Sus is located in the northeastern part of Maramureș County, on the border with Ukraine. The town lies at the confluence of the rivers Vișeu and Vaser, at an altitude of 427 m above sea level, having the characteristics of a mountain city. It neighbors the communes of Moisei to the southeast, Vișeu de Jos to the west, and Poienile de sub Munte to the northwest. It also borders Maramureș Mountains Natural Park to the north, and Rodna Mountains National Park to the south-east. The town administers a surface area of 44306 ha, making it the second-largest town by area in Romania.

Relief
The relief is mountainous, made of a plateau surrounded by hills, with the altitude varying from 400 m to 1042 m at Vârful lui Dan (Dan's Peak). The relief has a major impact on the tourism in the zone, due to its views.

Vaser is the most attractive tourist route in the Maramureș Mountains, a defile, separating on the left a few crystalline shales: Prislopașul (1,201 m), Grebeni (1594 m), Novicioru (1,452 m). It shares its border with Ukraine at 1500 –.

Hydrography and climate
The river Vișeu rises under the Prislop Pass, at an altitude of 1414 m and flows in the river Tisza near the commune of Bistra at an altitude of around 330 m. The river is 80 km long, and has an inclination of 2–50 m/km. Its river basin is developed, mostly, in the mountain zone (67%), which ensures a high density of the hydrographic network and a specific drainage of the highest in the country. The river Valea Vinului flows into the Vișeu in Vișeu de Mijloc.

The river Vaser rises from the Maramureș Mountains, forming from the springs Boului and Munceii Albi. It is 62 km long, and it is Vișeu's most important tributary, with a flow higher than itself.

Mineral waters
The special value of these natural riches is given by the great qualitative and quantitative diversity of mineralizations, as well as by the therapeutic (curative) qualities. Mineral waters, due to their complex chemical composition, are natural healing factors with a special therapeutic importance. Waters containing mineral substances and carbon dioxide are waters with a high therapeutic level. The mineral springs in the area resulted from an intense circulation of hydrothermal solutions in the eruptive rocks and in the mass of crystalline rocks and Eocene sedimentary rocks. In the Maramureș Mountains Natural Park, there had been identified 20.

Other mineral waters can be found in Vișeu de Sus and Valea Vinului. Mineral springs in Valea Vinului, especially the spring known as 'Gulaci', have a mineralization of 12.7 g/L and a concentration of 2,26 g/L CO2.

Fauna, flora, and funga
Vegetation is an important element of the natural environment, as well as a factor of tourist attraction. The variety of the relief and the climate are elements that have determined a rich and varied background in the Maramureș Mountains.

The flora and vegetation represent a great importance and interest in several points of view. In an economic point of view, we mention the importance of fodder, melliferous flowers, medicine, food, decoration, etc. Among the food species, we find: strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, elderflower, cherries and edible mushrooms. Among the medicinal plants, we find: Betula pendula, Crataegus monogyna, Betonica officinalis and Pinus mugo. Some are used for their flavored content, such as: Carum carvi, Funingirus communis, Mentha species and Oxalis acetosella.

Fauna of alpine hollows
Mammals are represented by characteristic species of alpine hollows – the black goat (Rupicapra rupicapra). Although it is specific to the alpine floor, it descends mainly in winter and enters the spruce in search of food. There are only a few specimens of black goats and mountain marmots in the Maramureș Mountains Natural Park, being repopulated since 1965. Birds in the alpine zone are represented by golden eagles, water pipits, accentors and northern pintails. There are reptiles too, most notable being: common European vipers and viviparous lizards, being present in zones with calcareous rocks. At meadows, there are common frogs. There once lived other birds, such as bearded vultures, cinereous vultures and griffon vultures.

Fauna of forest zones
The fauna of the softwood forest is represented by: bears, wolves and wild boars. Bird species include: black grouse, western capercaillies, Eurasian three-toed woodpeckers, red crossbills, coal tits, ring ouzels, etc. - which are characteristic species for coniferous forests.

Fauna of deciduous forests
Includes: red deer, foxes, several marten species, squirrels, stoats, least weasels, etc. Birds in the forests are represented by wood owls, Eurasian jays, stock doves, etc. Here we also find birds of prey: Eurasian sparrowhawks, northern goshawks, common buzzards, lesser spotted eagles. There can also be found: grey partridges, common pheasants and common quails.

Sister cities

 * 🇦🇹 Fürstenfeld, Austria
 * Zug, Switzerland
 * 🇺🇦 Verkhovyna, Ukraine
 * 🇺🇸 Staunton, United States

Natives

 * Carmen Avram (born 1966), journalist and politician
 * Simion Bumbar (born 2005), footballer
 * Marius Coman (born 1996), footballer
 * Ioan Condruc (born 1951), footballer
 * Mendel Elefant (1906–1942?), writer, artist, and journalist
 * László Ferenczy (1898–1946), officer in the Hungarian Royal Gendarmerie
 * David L. Genuth (1901–1974), Orthodox rabbi in Cleveland
 * Liviu Pop (born 1974), politician
 * Vasile Tomoiagă (born 1964), rower

title: Vișeu de Sus


text:
College Historical Society

The College Historical Society (CHS) – popularly referred to as The Hist – is a debating society at Trinity College Dublin. It was established within the college in 1770 and was inspired by the club formed by the philosopher Edmund Burke during his own time in Trinity in 1747. It holds the Guinness World Record as the "world's oldest student society".

The society occupies rooms in the Graduates' Memorial Building at Trinity College. Former members have included a number of notable Irish men and women, from republican revolutionaries Theobald Wolfe Tone, Robert Emmet, and Henry Grattan, writers Bram Stoker, Oscar Wilde, and Samuel Beckett, to founding father of the Northern Irish state Edward Carson and first President of Ireland Douglas Hyde, and – in more recent times – Government Ministers like Mary Harney (who was the first female auditor of the society) and Brian Lenihan, and modern Irish authors, such as Sally Rooney and Naoise Dolan.

Foundation
The first meeting of the College Historical Society took place on Wednesday 21 March 1770 in the Senior Common Room in Trinity College. The society took into its care the minute book of Burke's Club, founded 1747, from which the Hist has since drawn inspiration. Its other precursor was the Historical Club, founded in 1753, of which Henry Grattan was a member. James Reid became the first auditor of the Hist later in 1770. It was a time of great change in Ireland and the Western world, at the height of the Enlightenment and before the American War of Independence and the French Revolution. From its inception, it showed itself to be at the forefront of intellectual thought in Ireland, and many of its members later went into politics. In 1782, Lawrence Parsons was elected as an MP for Dublin University at 24, having served as auditor of the Hist just the previous year.

Restrictions and expulsions
Theobald Wolfe Tone, later leader of the United Irishmen, was elected auditor in 1785, and Thomas Addis Emmet was a member of the committee. The society was briefly expelled from the college in 1794, but readmitted on the condition that "No question of modern politics shall be debated". In 1797, the poet Thomas Moore and the nationalist Robert Emmet were elected as members. Eight members of The Hist were expelled in 1798 in the run-up to the Rebellion, and a motion was later carried condemning the rebellion, against their former auditor.

Tension between the society and the college flourished in the early nineteenth century, with the auditor being called before the provost in 1810. In 1812 the provost, Dr Thomas Elrington, objected vehemently to the question ‘Was Brutus justifiable in putting Julius Caesar to death?’. After a number of members were removed at the request of the college board, the society left the college in 1815.

Extern Society
The society continued from 1815 as the Extern Historical Society. Among its members at this time were Isaac Butt, a president of the society who tried unsuccessfully in 1832 to have the society readmitted, Joseph Sheridan LeFanu, Thomas Davis (a president of the society) and John Blake Dillon and many other notables of the nationalist cause. In 1843, under auditor William Connor Magee, future Archbishop of York, the society reformed within the college after a student petition, again on the condition that no subject of current politics was debated. This provision remains in the laws of the society as a nod to the past, but the college authorities have long since ceased to restrict the subjects of the society's debates.

19th century
The society continued successfully after that with many lively debates, including the motion on June 10, 1857 ‘That the Reform Bill of Lord Grey was not framed in accordance with the wants of the country’, proposed by Isaac Butt and opposed by Edward Gibson. This era was considered by many to be the high point of the society, with many of its members moving to high political positions. It was common for the Members of Parliament for Dublin University to have served on the Committee of the Hist, such as Edward Gibson and David Plunkett, who were both auditors, and Edward Carson, who was the librarian. Bram Stoker, author of Dracula, became auditor in 1872. In 1877, Charles O'Connor (judge), the last Master of the Rolls in Ireland, became auditor. In 1864 the society collected money from its members to erect statues of Edmund Burke and Oliver Goldsmith at the Front Gate of the college.

The society moved to the Graduates' Memorial Building (GMB) in 1904, which it shares with the University Philosophical Society. The college board relaxed its rules, allowing such motions as ‘That the Gaelic League is deserving of the support of every Irishman’ in 1905 and 1906.

20th and 21st centuries
The society continued well through the twentieth century, although the First World War hit it badly, with 136 of its former members killed. Eoin O'Mahony was elected auditor in 1930 and faced impeachment when he raised a toast to Ireland instead of the King. Eoin O'Mahony offered Lord Carson the presidency of the society in 1931, although Carson declined due to ill health, recommending that the position be offered to former gold medallist and future President of Ireland Douglas Hyde, who was elected to the position. The current president is Prof. David McConnell, a former librarian and auditor of the society and a winner of The Irish Times Debating Competition, and now chairman of The Irish Times Trust and one of Europe's foremost geneticists.

Son of W. B. Yeats, Michael Yeats became auditor in 1944, and in that capacity organised the inaugural meeting on 'The small nations'; Taoiseach Éamon de Valera and Jan Masaryk, minister for foreign affairs in the Czechoslovakian government-in-exile in London, were his main speakers. Yeats had further involvement with the society in 1969 when it proposed admitting women members. The proposal passed by a single vote; having supported it, Yeats contended that had he stayed at home on the night of the vote the society would have remained all-male.

Women had been refused membership in the society until 1969. Soon after the change in the rules, the society debated the motion 'That this House reveres the memory of Mrs Pankhurst' with Rosaleen Mills participating (the motion, however, was defeated). The first female auditor, future Tánaiste Mary Harney, was elected in 1976. the society has had eleven female auditors. The society's Bicentennial Meeting in 1970 was addressed by US Senator Edward Kennedy, at which he called the society "the greatest of the school of the orators".

Later developments have seen the re-opening of the Resource Library which holds over 200 books and is made available as a general study area and library for the use of the members of the society. The society also re-developed the 'Conversation Room', which was restored in preparation for the society's 250th celebrations in 2020.

To mark the society's acknowledgement as the world's oldest student society, by Guinness World Records, a successful attempt to break the record for longest debate was made in October 2023, breaking 27 hours.

Chamber debating
The main business of the society is the weekly debates held each Wednesday night during term time. The "Weekly Debate" is the second of the society's weekly meetings. The motions debated by the society have covered several controversial issues. In 2005, over 500 people attempted to gain access to a debate on abortion which was targeted by Youth Defence protesters and a debate on euthanasia was recorded for a documentary on the pro-euthanasia group Dignitas for the Canadian Discovery Channel.

Politicians such as David Ervine, Jeffrey Donaldson and John Hume have spoken in debates on Northern Ireland. In 2005, the then Minister for Justice, Michael McDowell unveiled proposals for reform of the legal profession at a society debate on the matter. The inaugural meeting of the 236th session, in 2006, was addressed by former President of Ireland Mary Robinson.

Competitive debating
Before the creation of a competitive debating structure, representatives of the society were invited to speak at similar societies internationally. As early as 1932 James Auchmuty and Garrett Gill travelled to Moorhead to speak at Minnesota State University.

The society's best debaters compete nationally and internationally against other societies in competitions, most usually of the British Parliamentary debating style with the notable exception being the Irish Times public-speaking competition. Teams representing the society have won the overall team prize in the Irish Times Debating Competition more than any other institution.

It has also competed internationally, competing at foreign Inter-Varsities and at both the World Universities Debating Championship and European Universities Debating Championships (EUDC) - the society having hosted the former in 1992. As of 2021, the society held the European record for most wins at a single European Championships, a record set following the performance of two speakers in the 2021 championships in Madrid. In the 2023 edition of EUDC, a Hist team reached the grand final and became the first entirely female team from any Irish university to do so in over a decade (with the previous all female team having been a Hist team in 2011).

The society hosts the Trinity Women's Open, the Robert Emmett Invitational Summer Open, and the Dean Swift Intervarsity (Trinity IV), the largest Irish Inter-varsity each year. The society also fosters development and competition within Trinity College, running workshops and internal competitions: including its Rosaleen Mills Maiden Speaker Competition, the Wolfe Tone's's Public Speaking Competition, Mary Harney Women and Gender Minorities Competition, and Henry Grattan's Historical Motion Competition.

It also plays a role in providing Secondary School Level Debating, for which the librarian of the society is primarily responsible. It jointly runs the Leinster Schools' Debating Competition with the Literary and Historical Society and its own Schools' Maces. The Hist Schools' Mace is open to all Leaving Cert cycle students, while the Girls' Mace is open to all female and gender minority Leaving Cert Cycle students.

Controversy
In September 2020, it was reported that the society had cancelled an invitation for the author and evolutionist Richard Dawkins to address the society. In announcing the cancellation, the then auditor of the society said she had been unaware Richard Dawkins held some controversial opinions, and that the society would be rescinding his invitation as we "value our members comfort above all else".

Current vice-presidents
As of 2019, the list of vice-presidents included:
 * Mary Robinson, Chancellor of the University of Dublin, former president of Ireland
 * Shane Ross, ex-Record Secretary, Leader of the Independent Alliance
 * Senator David Norris, Senator for the University of Dublin.
 * Mary Henry, former Senator for Dublin University
 * David O'Sullivan, ex-auditor, Medallist, European Union Ambassador to the United States
 * Ivana Bacik, Leader of the Labour Party, TD, former Senator for Dublin University
 * Sean Barret, former Senator for the University of Dublin
 * David F. Ford, ex-auditor, Regius Professor of Divinity at the University of Cambridge
 * Peter Charleton, ex-auditor, Judge of the Supreme Court
 * Iseult O'Malley, Judge of the Supreme Court
 * Richard Clarke, ex-Record Secretary, Archbishop of Armagh
 * Patrick Geoghegan, author of The College Historical Society 2020 book, professor of history at TCD

title: College Historical Society


text:
Talk:Tag question

Comment: Tag Questions
A comment on the article about tag questions:

Tag questions are here defined as a declarative followed by a questioning tag, which is in itself an incomplete definition. However, the reason why I react is that the examples given are actually imperatives followed by a questioning tag, which is also possible.

Some examples with declaratives and an interrogative:

John's going out, isn't he? (pos. declarative + neg. tag)

That's not true, is it? (neg. declarative + pos. tag)

He's quite stubborn, is he? (pos. declarative + pos. tag)

Do you sell newspaper do you? (pos. interrogative + pos. tag)

 * (Above comment by user 134.58.253.114. Please give a username in future.)

 * The last example, with interrogative + tag, is not to my mind a possible English sentence. The other examples are exactly parallel to the examples in the text of the article.  I don't really see the problem here. --Doric Loon 14:16, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

 * let's play baseball,shall we 2402:8100:2259:3060:283A:2F7:AD76:A842 (talk) 04:31, 19 April 2023 (UTC)

Echo questions
What are echo questions? Are they the same what question tags?
 * (This question by user Pawlątko.)

 * No, as far as I can discover, echo questions are questions which repeat the bulk of the sentence to which they are reacting.  eg:
 * Jack: It's Mary's birthday. I gave her a kitten.
 * Jill: You gave her a KITTEN??? But you know she hates cats!
 * --Doric Loon 14:16, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

 * Doric is essentially right, but did not word it extremely well. Most often, echo questions are questions in which you repeat the exact same word order as the declarative statement and you use a WH-word (who, what, where, etc) for the part of the sentence that you did not hear or understand or wanted clarification or confirmation that you heard what you thought you hear. When I studied this in college, I don't actually remember talking about examples like Doric gave, in which every word is repeated, though it follows the same logic. I assume it's just as sound. Examples: "I went to Antarctica." "You went where?" / "I watched a movie with Jessie." "You watched a movie with who(m)?"
 * --cullen (talk) 13:50, 22 August 2011 (UTC)

Answering Tag Questions
There's a lot about the forms of these questions on this page. But what should be addressed is how one answers them: answering tag questions phrased in the affirmative form is obvious, but those phrased in the negative form confront the difficulty in present-day English of the double negative.

In German, "doch" is used to answer "yes, it isn't"; "si" in French as well ("non" is used to answer the negation "no; rather, it is") and Japanese has similar expectation of how such questions are answered.

In Archaic English, there used to be a means of answering as in those other languages listed above, and I think it was "nay". Personally, I'm interested in the various ways things can be expressed -- but there are a lot of people out there who are trying to learn English and get hung up on this point. (I work around it). --Sobolewski 22:03, 15 March 2006 (UTC)

 * The only way I have ever heard is to answer it in the same manner as a positive, ignoring the negative. Thus, given "This is good bread, isn't it?" answering yes means "yes it is good bread" and no means "no it isn't". This is the same rule that is used for negative questions in general in english. The double negative doesn't cross into the answer is the best way I can think to say it. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 66.153.117.118 (talk) 21:55, 25 February 2007 (UTC).

"Emphasis" examples

 * I don't like peas, do you?
 * I like peas, don't you?

Are these really tag questions and not separate questions (that should be indicated as such using periods or maybe semi-colons)?

 * I don't like peas. Do you?
 * I like peas. Don't you?

--RJCraig 07:49, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

 * If they are joined to the sentence as in the text, they are tag questions. If they are separated the way you write them, they are not.  The difference in writing is real, because it reflects two different ways of saying them, and the different intonation patterns have different levels of meaning, or at least of stress.  If they are just tagged on the end of the sentence as afterthoughts, they are modifiers of the original sentence.  In this case, like many other tag questions in the article, they simply invite - but in fact probably presuppose - agreement, they don't really solicit information.  --Doric Loon 17:55, 13 February 2007 (UTC)

 * Even with a comma, I don't consider them tag questions.  Randall Bart    Talk   00:27, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Well, they ARE questions, and they ARE tagged onto the end of the sentence. You can quibble about terminology, but even if for you this is not a true tag question, it is certainly a related phenomenon, and since there is no other recognised terminology, what can possibly speak against discussing it here as a variation of the tag question phenomenon?  --Doric Loon (talk) 09:55, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

 * Tag questions and question tags are a specific thing, clear in the literature. These are not tag questions, they are plain, common-or-garden elided questions.  Punctuation doesn't alter that fact. Prof Wrong (talk) 21:26, 24 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Further, the Longman Student Grammar of English states "question tags are not independent clauses". These contrast questions are grammatically independent clauses, even if the elision of repeated information means that they rely on the previous clause for context.
 * Consider that I have a car - do you? can be converted to I have a car - do you have a car?, giving only a minor change in emphasis. But this doesn't work with tag questions.
 * You have a car, don't you? is fundamentally different from saying You have a car - don't you have a car? The second would only be possible if in the pause indicated by the hyphen something occurred to indicate to the speaker that the claim in the first clause was false.
 * Therefore it is clear that the tag question is not formed by elision. Also, if we accept contrast questions as a form of question tags, then we'd have to start discussing them for all languages, which would be rather bizarre given the fact that most languages treat them very differently from question tags.
 * Prof Wrong (talk) 08:31, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

Am I not?
Hi, the article only mentions "aren't I", not "am I not". Could someone fix this, please? --Kjoonlee 16:56, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

 * Does anybody actually say "am I not"? --Doric Loon 20:31, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

 * My old English professor. --Kjoonlee 11:35, 14 July 2007 (UTC)

I say "Am I not," "Are we not," etc. quite often. "Am I not on the list?" "Am I not going with you?" "Am I not your best friend?" "Are we not meeting at the coffee shop?" "Is he (just) not interested, or what? I don't think I *ever* say "Aren't I?"  What an nasally and grammatically-weird question (I + are = WTF??).Eztidun (talk) 02:04, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, but those aren't tag questions. Sure, I would say "am I not" at the beginning of a full sentence question, usually if "I" is stressed.  But would you ever say: "I'm next, am I not?"  As for "aren't I", it depends where you come from - we Scots would never say it.  --Doric Loon (talk) 07:04, 18 September 2008 (UTC)

 * Forgive the intrusion into your conversation, but I must say that I use "am I not" as a tag question quite frequently, especially as an emphatic. As in: "Are you going out?"; "I'm wearing my coat, am I not?" - Mark Jones, London —Preceding unsigned comment added by 93.96.158.249 (talk) 19:39, 10 February 2009 (UTC)

 * Agree. I find myself only using am I not.  To me aren't I just sounds wrong.  I'm a teacher so I have always taught students both forms but I accept that most other people use aren't I.  Is there a reason for this?  This article doesn't seem to go into this strange feature of question tags.  I'm right, am I not?--ЗAНИA talk talk] 01:52, 11 November 2011 (UTC)

Term for the "tag"
Is there another term for the "tag" or is that actually the term that is used to refer to the words that follow the comma? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 210.196.147.7 (talk) 01:50, 16 November 2007 (UTC)

Yes, we just call it "the tag". --Doric Loon (talk) 11:56, 15 May 2009 (UTC)

Auxiliaries....
This is a tag question, isn't it?

Yet "is" isn't functioning as an auxiliary in this instance, which is why I changed the definition.

"Do" as the intrusive auxiliary -- fine.

But is "to be" functioning as an auxiliary in "I'm doing it, amn't I" or the like? That's an open question, and if we think that the continuous might be a Celtic substrate, we open up a whole headache about the nature of participles. (Which is why I wanted to avoid the point, and simply associate the continuous with the copula....)

Prof Wrong (talk) 23:03, 4 December 2008 (UTC)

 * Yes, but mostly the tag question uses an auxiliary: either a form of do for a simple tense or of have for a perfect tense or of be for a progressive verb form. You are right that your example with a present simple of be as the main verb is a rare exception. You could also argue that examples with modals (mustn't we?) are not auxiliaries, but that depends on the definition of auxiliary and is therefore a moot point. I suspect what you have identified is a unique exception. The grammar books refer to the auxiliaries, so I would want to keep that, but I will add a sentence at the bottom of the section noting your observation. --Doric Loon (talk) 22:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)
 * OK done that, and I hope you agree with the solution. Thanks for pointing that out - it is yet another complication in the already very complex English system. --Doric Loon (talk) 22:33, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

 * That looks fine. I'd have prefered a different title, but I can live with it as it is -- the message is clear enough now. Prof Wrong (talk) 11:27, 6 December 2008 (UTC)

Welsh tag questions
I'm not sure the description of these is quite right. Is 'ond'/'onid' "a special particle... used to mark tag questions"? This seems misleading in at least two ways. First, it is not restricted to tag questions. It occurs as a conjunction, at least, both alone and combined with other elements. Second, it doesn't occur in tag questions following negative statements. The reason it occurs in the three cases here are that the sentences are all positive and 'onid' is negating the tag question. If the sentences were negative, you wouldn't use it. Also note that things work differently in the past tense. In the example, do isn't an inflected form of canu (to sing). You'd use the same tag question with other verbs and persons in the same tense: --Dienw (talk) 15:53, 4 May 2009 (UTC)
 * Dydy hi ddim yn bwrw glaw heddiw, ydy hi? - It isn't raining today, is it?
 * Canodd y bobl, on' do? - The people sang, didn't they?
 * Aethon ni i'r sinema, ond do? - We went to the cinema, didn't we?
 * Dysgodd e'n dda, ond do? - He learnt well, didn't he?

Reinventing the wheel...?
I reckon this article is going round the houses a bit with all its talk of auxiliaries and exceptions. The rule is far more straightforward than the article makes out:
 * 'Take the first verb, optional negative particle and pronoun from the simple question form'.

By that rule, "to be" is not an exception -- the only exception is then the (optional) use of "hadn't I" for non-auxiliary "have".

Am I not, are we not etc are still covered by it as they can occur at the start of an interrogative (but still worth noting).

English is hard enough without teaching the same thing twice and thereby inventing exceptions where there are none. Prof Wrong (talk) 22:37, 23 March 2010 (UTC)

Adverbial tag questions
Somebody has removed from this article most of the examples of adverbs being used as tag questoins (OK?, eh?, surely? right? yeh?) and put the few that are left into a separate section on "variants" implying they are regional or non-standard or not the real thing. They are absolutely part of standard English, and are tag questions in the fullest sense. Anyone who looks at this across the langages and sees that other languages have tag questions like gel? or verdad? can plainly see this. But somebody here has such anglo-centric thinking that only the unique Celtic/English way of forming them is being recognized. This is a backward step. --Doric Loon (talk) 17:37, 12 August 2010 (UTC)

Globalization tag
A globalization tag has been added to this article, suggesting it is too focussed on English. I think that is probably wrong. As this is the English-language Wikipedia, you would expect the head to loead with English-language examples of linguistic phenomena, because that is the easiest way to show the reader what we are talking about. Further down we would normally deal with as wide a range of languages as possible. The trouble here is that only English and the Celtic languages seem to have a system complicated enough to discuss in detail. We do mention examples from a good many other languages in the first sub-section, but there is nothing more to say about them than that they have one-phrase question tags. French is "n'est-ce pas", that's all, what would we want to discuss? So I think the balance is right. If anyone disagrees, could you please tell us what languages you think need fuller discussion? If not, I will remove the globalization tag. --Doric Loon (talk) 22:04, 27 April 2011 (UTC)

Article order/hierarchy... split...?
I wasn't too comfortable with the layout of the section forms, as it had become an unstructured list. Instead I've converted it to be a discussion of common patterns. I've tried to keep as many of the different languages in as possible, but in many places it would have seemed repetitive, and in others I wasn't clear on the exact meaning of certain words. If anyone's clearer on them, feel free to add them back in in the appropriate place.

The question that arose in my mind was the matter of English and Celtic. Part of me wanted to incorporate them into the form section, as that's where other tags were discussed. But then they talk about both form and usage.

I'm now starting to think that the English tag question really deserves its own article, with only a brief overview here. I reckon the Celtic languages deserve a slightly broader discussion here than English (as it's a pattern that occurs across languages), but with some of the specifics perhaps being devolved down to language-specific articles, so we'd still end up with less here than we have here.

Any thoughts...? Prof Wrong (talk) 09:18, 25 July 2011 (UTC)

 * Sorry, I should have answered this much sooner. Well, the question I would ask is whether you are wanting to write a lot more. The article is not too long, and I suspect that splitting it is not justified with the material we have. I agree up to a point about the balance problem, but I think it is not that big an issue unless we have more to say. But, I think it is important to have a full discussion of the English phenomenon, and if you want to resructure the whole article in a way that can't accommodate that, then a separate English article would certainly be a possibility. --Doric Loon (talk) 21:18, 31 July 2011 (UTC)

Japanese "ne"?
Would folks here consider the Japanese word (I suppose it might be a particle) "ne" an indicator of a tag question? (Or would you limit that label to longer and more explicit forms such as "[na no] de wa nai ka?", for example?) -- jalp (209.172.14.140 (talk) 15:32, 31 July 2011 (UTC))

I was wondering that myself, but wasn't able to find a source for that. That's how the word is borrowed into English, ne? Thomblake (talk) 17:15, 13 July 2012 (UTC)

I don't think "ne" would be considered a tag, as it functions pretty much identically to any other verb-/sentence-level grammatical marker. A tag is added on after the clause under question, but "ne" is technically part of it.... Prof Wrong (talk) 12:30, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

良いね Would definitely be considered a tag question. Solntsa90 (talk)

Tags without inversion
Is there a special name for these tags without inversion, as in I'm Henry VIII, I am? Ivo von Rosenqvist (talk) 00:44, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

That's not a "tag", as far as I'm aware. What you're doing is restating the sentence in an emphatic form. This is clearer with other verbs -- eg I like it, I do. Consider that "yes I do" is far more emphatic that "yes".

Of course, it seems to be getting less common.... Prof Wrong (talk) 12:38, 19 December 2012 (UTC)

How to form tag question in English in case of presence of the word "never"?
E. g.: He never drinks coffee.

How to ask correctly about this: He never drinks coffee, does he? or He never drinks coffee, doesn't he? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.114.128.92 (talk) 21:21, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Disputed, welsh false tag
I'm pretty sure that the welsh form is in fact a tag question, but don't feel confident enough to delete the info and am far too lazy to find a source. Judge me all you want but not even bothering to tag it would be worse. The citation needed tag's been there for a whiiiile and it's probably because the statement is bullshit, so unsourcable.

False tag in Welsh English
This section is unsourced, and seems dubious. It sounds like the kind of story non-linguists sometimes come up with. I would be inclined to delete it unless someone can find a source. --Doric Loon (talk) 17:50, 23 December 2015 (UTC)
 * OK, and I've just seen that back in October an IP-user said the same thing (see section above). In that case, three months on, as there is still no source, it's time to delete the section. --Doric Loon (talk) 17:53, 23 December 2015 (UTC)

Why can't this sentence take a tag question?
"We haven't spoken in far too long, ____?" Neither "have we" nor "haven't we" sounds acceptable. Equinox ◑ 20:38, 16 August 2016 (UTC)
 * "We haven't spoken in far too long, have we?" - sounds just fine to me. But it's a question of context - normally you would say this particular sentence in a context where the kind of emphasis created by a tag question is not required. --Doric Loon (talk) 17:43, 18 August 2016 (UTC)
 * Hmm... I suppose it depends on stress patterns. "We haven't met before, have we?" seems like quite a different sort of "have we". Equinox ◑ 23:08, 20 August 2016 (UTC)

English-language
When using question tag remember the following:

A negative statement is followed by a positive statement A positive statement is followed by a negative statement 41.77.89.202 (talk) 17:47, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Home science
Nutritional deficiency and disorders 102.216.154.49 (talk) 17:07, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Tag question


text:
Richard Baerwald

Richard Baerwald (1867–1929) was a German academic psychologist, in Berlin. Towards the end of his life he became interested in parapsychology and occultism (as it was interpreted at the period). He edited the Zeitschrift für Kritischen Okkultismus from 1926 to 1928.

Works

 * Theorie der Begabung (1896)
 * Der Mensch ist grösser als das Schicksal (1922)
 * Die intellektuellen Phänomene (1925)
 * Okkultismus und Spiritismus und ihre weltanschaulichen Folgerungen (1926)
 * Psychologie der Selbstverteidigung in Kampf-, Not- und Krankheitszeiten (1927)

title: Richard Baerwald


text: User talk:67.15.54.16

title: User talk:67.15.54.16


text:
User:TenorBase

A student at the University of Southern California.

Born in San Luis Obispo, lived in Morro Bay, Buellton, and Lake Elsinore.

Personal Web Site at http://www-scf.usc.edu/~poldberg

title: User:TenorBase


text:
Caluyanon language

Caluyanon is a regional Western Bisayan language spoken in the Semirara Island Group, Caluya, Antique in the Philippines. Most of its speakers use either Kinaray-a or Hiligaynon as their second language.

title: Caluyanon language