text:
Talk:Court system of Canada

Removed "Etiquette" section
I removed the "Etiquette" section. It seemed ridiculous, a bunch of silly pithy jabs at U.S. culture, starting with the introductory statement

''A good Canadian law student or lawyer should be wary of watching American courtroom dramas as he or she may risk embarrassing him or herself when appearing and advocating in a real Canadian court. Canadian courtroom etiquette far more resembles that of England than that of the United States.''

Hurr Hurr Hurr, U.S. sux. It's a good idea, just poorly executed. And plus the formatting on that section is god-awful, looks like it was copied and pasted from somewhere. - Kade 20:49, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Page move (2005)

 * The following discussion is closed. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

(from WP:RM)

Courts of Canada → Canadian court system
I merged the Courts of Canada article with the original Canadian court system as they were pretty much the exact same thing. The better of the two was Courts of Canada so I kept that one, however the Category name is "Canadian court system" so it would be more appropriate to name the article according to that title -- PullUpYourSocks 02:42, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

There was an identical article called Canadian court system that I merged with this one, but not much material from the other one survived. Moreover, I renamed this one to the more appropriate title of "Court system of Canada" see Requested_moves for comments. I trust no one has any strong feelings against it. - PullUpYourSocks 19:52, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Comments on page move

 * Support. This seems sensible. Jonathunder 02:47, 2005 Jan 13 (UTC)
 * Oppose - this move disagrees with the general direction given at WikiProject Countries to use "Entity of Country". -- Netoholic @ 03:01, 2005 Jan 13 (UTC)
 * Oppose: but not because of the guidelines (that say to not enforce them on those actively editting an article) that Netholic posted. Randomly picking an external link (http://www.courts.gov.bc.ca/) the title is "Courts of British Columbia". And other random court links I chose.  It's clear the sites use "Court of" so I guess the category needs to be changed to match. Cburnett 04:05, 13 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Support. Articles are "X of Y" where it makes sense; such is not the case here.  ADH (t&m) 04:36, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Pointless move.  --Tony Sidaway|Talk 23:01, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)
 * Support either of the two suggested names. -Sean Curtin 05:51, Jan 15, 2005 (UTC)
 * Support the article is about the court system not just the courts. - SimonP 04:12, Jan 13, 2005 (UTC)
 * Then perhaps Court system of Canada? -- Netoholic @ 04:52, 2005 Jan 13 (UTC)
 * Looks like PullUpYUourSocks liked this suggestion and moved the article. It seems that the only thing needed would be to merge the history of Canadian court system with Court system of Canada. -- Netoholic @ 06:35, 2005 Jan 14 (UTC)
 * Once the compressed block issue is done, this can be done:
 * Delete Court system of Canada
 * Move Canadian court system to Court system of Canada
 * Restore Court system of Canada
 * Edit historical version to be current, if needed.
 * - UtherSRG 02:00, Jan 20, 2005 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section.

Quebec judges
Three judges are required by the Supreme Court Act to come from Quebec.

See the text here:

 * 6. At least three of the judges shall be appointed from among the judges of the Court of Appeal or of the Superior Court of the Province of Quebec or from among the advocates of that Province.

Meaning of "v." in case citations
''The "v." in the case's title means "and" and not "versus", even though the parties are adversaries. Likewise, the case of R. v. Morgentaler (Canada's criminal law appeal legalizing abortion in 1988) should be cited as "The Queen AND Morgentaler".''

The "v." does mean "versus" because when you cite a case in french the "v." becomes a "c.", which stands for "contre". I'm not too sure about oral citations but the "v." definately doesn't stand for "and".--Nickcin2000 14:02, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

''The "v." does mean "versus" because when you cite a case in french the "v." becomes a "c.", which stands for "contre". I'm not too sure about oral citations but the "v." definately doesn't stand for "and"''

I know that "v.", during oral citation, is pronounced as "AND" and not "VERUS" or "V". When I attend English-language civil court hearings, the judges and lawyers say "AND" when citing a case name containing the "v.".--Alf74 12:42, 21 May 2006 (UTC)

Comment on Jury trials
{The jury selection process is a major part of a trial. Up until recently the government prosecution had a huge and unfair advantage in jury selection with 52 to only 12 objections or stand asides to potential jurors. Basically it was possible for the government to handpick the jury. In one case they were able to impose an all female jury on a man accused of physical assault on a woman. The supreme court of canada lacked the probity to rule against this injustice but some years later the federal government decided that the so long accepted jury selection process was unconstitutional. The government prosecutors have many unfair advantages such as being able to impose a jury trial where none is wanted or indeed feared and being able to arbitrarily impose fitness to stand hearings. Most canadians believe they are guilty to proved innocent and point to the fact that canada has one of the highest rates of incarceration in the world. The process of federal government review of possible wrongful convictions is unfair because it denies the wrongly convicted rights if they have any outstanding charge, no matter how minor. How open to abuse the system is when all the police have to do is bring another charge to obstruct the process. Those fighting wrongful convictions are in grave jeopardy because their conviction can be used against them should they exercise their right to testify in their own defense. As support look up the 35 pages of legal sophistry by the supreme court of canada Biddle, Eric R. concerning the all female jury or contact toronto lawyer Leo Adler concerning the review of wrongful conviction ongoing 12 years and necessitating flight from canada in 2000. Eric R. Biddle ericbiddle@hotmail.com

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.152.235.192 (talk) 23:37, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

The Graphic at the top of the page could be improved
There are a few things about the graphic at the top of the page that could be improved.

1. It's not correct that all appeals go from the Provincial Courts to the superior trial court, and then to the Court of Appeal. In criminal matters, it is correct that summary conviction matters are first appealed from the Provincial Court to the superior trial court, but if a matter is tried by indictment in a Provincial Court, the appeal goes straight to the Court of Appeal.

2. It's not correct that all appeals/judicial review of administrative bodies go first to the superior trial court, then to the Court of Appeal. It depends on the statutory framework in each province. In some cases, appeals go straight from certain administrative body to the Court of Appeal.

3. The same point applies to the federal administrative agencies. While in most cases, the Federal Court has jurisdiction for judicial review of federal boards and tribunals, s. 28 of the Federal Courts Act provides that for the major federal boards (e.g. the CRTC), it's the Federal Court of Appeal that has exclusive jurisdiction for judicial review.

4. the text in the box for "Provincial Court of Appeal" should be "Provincial/Territorial Courts of Appeal".

5. the text is overflowing the boxes in some cases;  can that be fixed?

I don't mean to be too critical on these points, and I would fix them myself if I could, but I don't have the technical skills to do so.

Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 13:03, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

 * The graphic wasn't designed by any of the editors on Wikipedia. It is from the Department of Justice's website.  Anyway, to respond to the specific points:
 * 1. I believe the graphic is supposed to be representative of the heirarchy of the courts, not the appeal routes. That is, the province's superior court is higher up on the heirarchy than the province's provincial court; the federal court of appeal is higher up on the heirarchy than the federal court or the tax court; neither the tax court nor the federal court are above each other in the heiarchy.  Obviously references to a court's heirarchy is a bit of a window dressing - a superior court's criminal trial decision is not binding on a provincial court criminal judge (just persuasive), but a superior court's summary conviction appeal ruling is binding.  However, the graphic is useful that it gives a visual ideal of how the different courts are related to each other.

 * 2. Same reply as number one.

 * 3. Same reply as number one.

 * 4. Can't change the text as no one here created the image. It came from the DoJ.  If you can find a better image that isn't copyrighted, link to it here and another editor can either add it or show you how to add it.

 * 5. Same reply as number four.

 * Singularity42 (talk) 13:26, 20 May 2011 (UTC)

Requested move 26 April 2016

 * The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved.  QEDK ( T  ☕  C ) 10:15, 4 May 2016 (UTC)

Court system of Canada → Judiciary of Canada – Seems to to be the standard naming for this series of article, see also template present in the bottom of this article, and compare main articles for Category:Judiciaries and Category:Courts by country. Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 07:25, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose ambiguous naming judiciary means the body of judges. While "court system" clearly refers to the court system and not the body of judges -- 70.51.46.195 (talk) 11:56, 26 April 2016 (UTC)

 * Oppose for the reasons given by 70.51.46.195. This article is about more than the judges, but how the courts are set up, the powers of the courts, and how they relate to each other.  It also include the relationship between the courts and the administrative tribunals, which are clearly not part of the judiciary, but are under the supervision of the courts.  Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 14:30, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Rather then commenting on unreferenced wiktionary, I suggest you take a look at Judiciary. There are three equivalent terms, and we should standardize to what is the most popular one on Wikipedia already. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus| reply here 09:43, 27 April 2016 (UTC)
 * The same definition is provided by Merriam-Webster . Your proposal makes the name ambiguous, there being multiple meanings for "judiciary", so should not be used when we have perfectly usable unambiguous ones. -- 70.51.46.195 (talk) 07:08, 30 April 2016 (UTC)

 * Support: its actually a rather logical move. "Judiciary" means the entire system, not just judges. Its more succinct and can be made uniform across other nation's judiciary pages. DaltonCastle (talk) 23:14, 26 April 2016 (UTC)
 * Oppose as per common name Department of Justice, Department of Justice--Moxy (talk) 11:13, 27 April 2016 (UTC)

 * The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

"Exclusive control over civil law"
It is misleading and incorrect to say that the Constitution gives provinces exclusive control over civil law. Although s. 92 of the Constitution Act, 1867 gives provinces the exclusive power to legislate with respect to "property and civil rights", this is not co-extensive with "civil law". In fact many areas that are generally understood as falling under civil law fall under federal powers -- e.g. patent, trademark and copyright law; marriage; divorce; and spousal and child support when they flow from divorce. Federal law can also regulate the circumstances under which private law remedies are available to plaintiffs suing federally regulated sectors like aviation, banking and railroads. For example the Carriage by Air Act creates a partial no-fault regime respecting lawsuits against airlines. Blakes314159 (talk) 23:56, 12 April 2017 (UTC)

Administrative tribunals section
This section has almost no citations and has various inaccurate blanket statements. Some parts are not particularly encyclopedic and I'm not sure that this degree of detail belongs in this article? There are only so many things you can say about administrative tribunals as a whole since they vary immensely. Does anyone object if I rework this considerably? I would expect it to be far shorter and focus more on the relationship to the court system through judicial review and statutory appeals. ShinyObjectsOnly (talk) 06:58, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Go to town! See what you can do to improve it.  More cites are always welcome. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 13:13, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * If you’re citing a statute, there’s a citation template designed for Canadian statutes : Template:Cite canlaw
 * Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 13:21, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

Etiquette and procedure
These sections have few to no citations. They're inherently problematic - each court controls it's own etiquette and procedure. So blanket statements can easily be inaccurate when made without any support. There are some inaccuracies present. Given that there's no uniform governing authority over these matters across the country, and absent any citations, I think it's best to remove a fair bit of it. It's also phrased as an explainer to those familiar with American courts, and I don't think that framing makes sense. I would like to substantially rework and shorten this, adding citations for the core aspects that are common across Canadian jurisdictions but removing a fair bit. Any thoughts? ShinyObjectsOnly (talk) 07:08, 1 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Same here. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 13:14, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I understand it may be bad form to delete things if they are potentially verifiable and could be fixed. Much of what is here might be useful or interesting to someone. But I don't have access to much in the way of sources and I still don't know that this level of detail belongs in this survey article. What do you think about the idea of creating a separate page for much of this material, moving this stuff there, and replacing it here with a brief overview of any high level key aspects? I could also fix the bullet point paragraphs there and make any easy changes that make it flow a little more. ShinyObjectsOnly (talk) 16:44, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Sources and resources
This is a note in part for my future reference and for any folks (with legal training and otherwise) wanting to contribute but not sure where to start.

I added some material from the Monahan and Shaw Irwin Law constitutional law text, since that's what I have digitally available, and will continue to do so. It is available through remote access to digital subscriptions for some courthouse libraries (BC, at least). If anyone lurking here has access to other texts (see e.g. this list at Legaltree), those would be nice to add throughout this article. Sources with an asterisk are considered leading texts.

The legal journals available on CanLII are also a good place to look for publicly available commentary, though bear in mind that the views of any one person may not be representative of general consensus and there are some people with an axe to grind. They don't appear to include any specializing in any of these matters, but law school journals cover a range of topics and are subject to editorial review as well. I did a search narrowing down to journal articles or books which comment on ss 96-101. For the uninitiated, if you enter terms in the document text box of this search you can narrow down. You can also add case citations to the search to locate scholarly commentary on a given case, e.g. this search concerning the provincial judges reference.

I don't know much about the The Canadian Constitutional Law Open Access Casebook, 2022 CanLIIDocs 1392, but it's written by two law professors and another widely published scholar so I would expect it to be reliable. However, as a casebook, the amount of commentary is limited. It's good for general explainers, to get a sense of the general consensus concerning the importance of any given case, and to identify the central leading cases on a given topic.

ShinyObjectsOnly (talk) 16:08, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

 * For my future reference, other potentially useful articles located via noting up the Judges Act:
 * - Josh Hunter and Sarah Kraicer, Keeping the Scale of Justice Balanced – Québec Justices of the Peace and Judicial Independence, 2017 81 Supreme Court Law Review 149, 2017 CanLIIDocs 3915, < https://canlii.ca/t/ss73 > (treatment of history of judicial independence cases and material concerning Quebec justices of the peace)
 * - (with caution due to date and narrow focus, but does have some general and historical information) Andre S Millar, The "New" Federal Judicial Appointments Process: The First Ten Years, 2000 38-3 Alberta Law Review 616, 2000 CanLIIDocs 130, < https://canlii.ca/t/2df9 > ShinyObjectsOnly (talk) 16:28, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

Merge proposal
Provincial and territorial courts in Canada is a stub and the information is duplicated here. It appears to meet criteria to be merged here but I don't know if this would be considered controversial. Someone more experienced care to comment? ShinyObjectsOnly (talk) 16:37, 2 March 2024 (UTC)

 * I didn't even know that article existed! Yes, I think a merger would be a good thing.  I'm not sure how to request one;  will poke around. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 16:18, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Right, I've checked the page on merging and we don't need to go to an administrator, just start by putting merge proposals on the two pages. I'll do that.  There's considerable overlap between the two, so the merge might amount to deleting most of the stuff on the other page, but there's a few things there that could be carried over, like the appeals and the Ontario Provincial Offences Court. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 17:27, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Excellent, thank you! ShinyObjectsOnly (talk) 17:37, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * I've put a notice on the Wikipedia talk:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board, alerting that a merge proposal has been made. (That's not Canvassing, as long as it's just a neutral announcement.) Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 17:45, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

 * Survey
 * Merge: The Provincial and Territorial Courts in Canada page is a stub, and is largely duplicative of what is in this page.  Putting info on all the courts into this one article is better organization.  The parts of the other page that are not duplicative can be easily included here. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 17:35, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge: Mostly duplicated info. GoodDay (talk) 17:50, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge: The context of the distinctions between superior courts and provincial courts is important to understanding provincial courts as a whole. That is most easily done in this article. More detailed information about any given provincial court would remain on that court's page. This would match the approach taken for all other levels of court. ShinyObjectsOnly (talk) 17:51, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Merge. I agree with the above - merging into a single article Court system of Canada makes sense, due to duplicated information between the two.   PK  T (alk)  19:29, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

Comment: there seems general support for the proposal, so I went to the other article to see what could be moved here. I think that the first two paragraphs already are covered by this article, and the list of provincial courts is also here. The only thing that wasn't included was the comment about the Ontario Provincial Offences Court, so I've moved it here, and deleted the rest of the other article. Will try to turn it into a redirect. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 03:17, 30 March 2024 (UTC)

Changes all look good to me.
Your changes and updating all look good to me! Thanks for doing it. I've done a fair bit on this article, but it's always good to have fresh eyes take a look. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 16:21, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * trying to fix my ping. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 16:24, 3 March 2024 (UTC)
 * Glad to hear it. I don't want to jump in and change things that are there for a reason and please do let me know if I'm doing something that doesn't make sense. On that point, I wonder what you'd think about reorganizing a bit and removing some duplication? Let's say, for example, having a flow like (but with better wording):
 * - Types of courts (origin of provincial and federal jurisdiction in the Constitution and their respective roles, what's inherited from the British system, inherent jurisdiction vs statutory, explanation of superior vs provincial courts and terminology)
 * - Levels of the court system (explanation of each, likely a bit shorter with some of the previous material synthesized above)
 * And go from there. Some of this approach is there already with the initial explanations, but this might make it easier to keep similar material together and give enough context for the description of each court so as not to have to explain the concepts as much there.
 * If this does sound sensible, is it better to workshop these changes e.g. in a subpage or just go ahead with them in the main article as is? (In increments of course)

ShinyObjectsOnly (talk) 16:59, 3 March 2024 (UTC)

title: Talk:Court system of Canada


text:
Talk:Morlachs

Stara Vlaška
Where exactly is this Stara Vlaška region of Croatia? The only Stara Vlaška I know is a street in Zagreb :)

 * Well, this region was really, really small: it was kept in a box in a shop of that Zagreb street. :)

My googling shows that it would be either be in Macedonia and Thessaly, or in the interior of "old Servia", or in Bosnia, which are all similarly ambiguous. The EB1911 goes into a bit more detail saying how Morlacchia came to be applied to pretty much all of modern Dalmatia, Bosnia and Slavonia, but that doesn't help the confusion... --Joy [shallot]   20:49, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * It appears that it was indeed in Bosnia, not Croatia. BTW, searching for this I also found some interesting stuff on the Timok Vlachs of Serbia.  Bogdan | Talk 21:20, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)

The page on Zlatibor now mentions Stari Vlah - look into that. --Joy [shallot]   9 July 2005 13:05 (UTC)

Some link
I found a reference on a website (not necessarily reliable, I think it was []) that said that Morovlachs meant 'Sea Vlachs'. I'm sure that's wrong, because 'Moro'/'Mavro' is more likely from a Greek word meaning 'black/brown'. But the explanation given on the site is that these Vlachs originally lived on the Sea coast (Dalmatia or Albania). Alexander 007 05:25, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

 * According to this paper, Black means North and White means South. Well, it fits here and also fits on the Black Cumania (in Ukraine) and White Cumania (in Wallachia). Anyway, this is similar to the way North and South are named in Romanian:
 * North: Miazănoapte ("Midnight")
 * South: Miazăzi ("Midday"). Bogdan | Talk 12:43, 20 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Stupid question
Is there any connection between the name "Morlach" and "Morlock" (from H.G. Wells' books). Just wondering, perhaps it is a coincidence... - FrancisTyers 17:47, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 * No there isn't ...

 * Actually, contrary to the anonymous contributors reply, there may be. Wells may have read the name somewhere and it came to him when he was looking for a name for his fictional creatures. A is putting the smack down (talk) 01:47, 8 October 2008 (UTC)
 * Like Tolkin's "Midland" which is Eng translation of "Mediterranean" (medium-terra) and many other examples... Zenanarh (talk) 13:38, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

infobox
what's wrong with this inforbox? Can anyone tell me why is reverted? --Preacher, or Princelet 13:31, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
 * Erm, what's the source for the population figure? I'd say that Morlachs are practically extinct, i.e. assimilated into Slavic peoples around. For God's sake, only 22 people in Croatia assert the Morlach ethnicity, and I doubt anyone speaks the language anymore. Duja 07:19, 5 October 2006 (UTC)
 * You're talking to Bonaparte, Duja. ;-) — Khoikhoi 03:18, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

 * 250,000 estimated Morlachs? LOL. Only a fraction of one percent (about 20) are Morlachs, unless someone is fooling around in wikipedia by posting fake demographic information. I can only guess a quarter of a million Croatians may have Morlachian ancestry, genetics or even live in the former province. But they are not Morlachians, don't speak any Morlach and only self-identify as Croatians or other South Slavic ethnicity. Good thing the estimation entry was long removed, doesn't contribute a cent's worth in the article. + 71.102.2.206 (talk) 03:28, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Dubious assertion
From the article: The first phase of that proactive assimilation of Morlachs took place in Herzegovina and Montenegro where they not only were accepting the language of the local Slavs (now identified Serbs), but also turning it into a new Slavic language "novoshtokavian" which would later serve as the base for Serbo-Croatian. But the fact that the Morlachs in the Western Balkan never reached the level of a nation, and had not given it their proper name resulted in recent disintegration of the Serbo-Croatian into Bosnian, Croatian and Serbian language. Are you saying that Morlachs were responsible for generation of neo-shtokavian??? OMG! Morlachs are also responsible for disintegration of Serbo-Croatian??? That should better be backed up with some reliable sources. Otherwise, it doesn't belong to the article. Duja 10:56, 6 October 2006 (UTC)

 * He/she hasn't provided any sources, that is original research and the information can't be accepted in the article. Now if the anonymous IP is right in some way, the article must be rewritten on the "extinct" Morlachs are "revived" in the early 2000's. To be truthful, Novo-Shtokavian is a Croatian dialect, not a separate Romance language and doesn't count as a by-product of Morlachian. + 71.102.2.206 (talk) 03:32, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Added link to Croatian Wikipedia
Morlaci

--kliker 02:53, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Assimilation
Part of the article says that "eventually most Morlachs linguistically assimilated the local Slavs." This statement is unclear, does it mean that the Slavs were assimilated into the Morlach population, or the Morlachs were assimilated into the Slav population? Later in the article it says the latter, but that happened much later. This should probably be cleared up.Rcduggan (talk) 13:11, 2 April 2008 (UTC)
 * Morlachs were assimilated into the Slav population. Zenanarh (talk) 06:44, 29 May 2008 (UTC)

What is the source for this text
I copy-pasted this from the article:

 * "Furthermore the Vlach or Vlasi are descendents of the Italic peoples of Latio, who were Romanized; but they were related to the Slavs in the first place or more correctly to the Proto-Slavs who lived on the Italic and Balkan peninsulas much before the sixth century AD, as it has been assumed wrongly since the middle of the 19th century. According to Slav historians whose passed on the tradition and knowledge from their predecessors, the Slavs were one of the indigenous peoples of the region around the Black Sea, the Balkans and spreading out towards Western Europe, into the Italic Peninsula, and further on to Sicily where a tribe from Dalmatia called the Sikuli settled. The Italic Proto-Slavs-like the Etrurians or Raseni, as they called themselves-came under the strong colonial and cultural influence of the Greeks and were later merged into the Roman Republic and nation."

What is the source for this? It looks like extravagant text and also it is mostly off-topic. A is putting the smack down (talk) 11:46, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

Dalmatian speakers and Vlachs
There is confusion in the article between speakers of Dalmatian language/Vegliot on one hand and speakers of Eastern Romance on the other. This confusion has been in the article for years and I brought it to attention on this talk page back in 2006. For example, the references to Morlachs on the island of Krk (also called Veglia), where Dalmatian speakers were settled leads me to conclude that the reference is to Dalmatian-speakers. Was the term Vlach and Maurovlach used for Dalmatian speakers and Easteern Romance speakers? This may be the case, for example Italians have also been referred to as Vlachs (by Poles, etc.). A is putting the smack down (talk) 19:08, 7 October 2008 (UTC)

 * Vlachs and Morlachs were differently used by different sources. It's possible that Vegliot speakers used Morlachs for the shephards, settlers of the Dalmatian inland, remains of the Romanized Illyrians, while in the same time the Venetian or Croatian speakers could have used it for isolated groups of Vegliot speakers, who were also nothing but Romanized pre-Roman natives. It's very important to notice that Dalmatian language (probably dialect closer to Ragusan than Vegliot) almost completely disappeared in Zadar during 14th century, completely replaced by Croatian, while the documents were always written in Latin. And one of the first writings about the Morlachs came from Zadar in 14th century. There's a lot of mess with these ethnonyms - its meaning range from ethnos to profession, depending on the source, author and period. Zenanarh (talk) 14:01, 9 October 2008 (UTC)

Extinct ethnic group
The number of Morlachs are very low, perhaps full-blooded or self-designated members of the ethnic group are gone. They paid a heavy toll of cultural assimilation into Croatian/Yugoslavian and/or Italian society. Some ethnological sources continued to portray Morlachs in the Balkans and perhaps a subgroup of Croatian-Italians a "dormant ethnicity" who have living descendants living at the present, but none of them to our knowledge are observing Morlachian customs such as learning to speak the ancestral language. The 20 Morlachs of Croatia in the 21st century are in it's end.

I doubt any "born again Morlachian" is around to create a neo-Morlachian or "Balkan Morlach Revival" movement, unlike the current Celtic revival movements of "born again Celts" in late 20th century England with the issue of Cornish people and the lloegr or "lost land people" in Great Britain; and the Celtic nationalists of Galicians or Cantabricans in northern Spain. The Morlachs were a missing piece of European history, the Romanized peoples of what later became Yugoslavia after the Slavic peoples resettled the land. + 71.102.2.206 (talk) 03:20, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Has anybody taken pains to track down and interview these remaining 22 people? I think it should be done for the sake of collecting as much information as possible. It is odd that we have this chance still and do not make use of it. Many sources state that Morlachs were extict since the XVIII or XIX century and now (in 1991) 22 people happened to identify themselves as Morlachs. Is it not a great thing...?Aldrasto (talk) 12:10, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

 * LOL you don't understand. Real Morlachs are really extinct, probably already from the 15th century. All those Morlachs later were people of "Morlachian proffession" - sheep shephards in the Dinaric Alps. Just because they were not some educated people they probably equalized their ethnicity to their proffession - remains of Medieval social class separation. I doubt these "Neo-Morlachs" have anything special to say - except why they have decided to use "Morlach" as ethnicity. BTW Morlach descendents are Croats today. If you want to know something about "Morlachian culture" you just need to ask any Croat from inland Dalmatia and Herzegovina ;-) Zenanarh (talk) 13:44, 3 December 2009 (UTC)

Maybe you are right, maybe not... Nonetheless I think given the present circumstances it would be worth its while to hear what these people have to say about their family history, descent, migrations etc. Let people tell their story... Morlachs as other Rumenians/Arumenians are jealously attached to their origins and traditions. It seems these 22 people live in Istria, together with other Istroromanians: this proves that they all feel a sense of belonging to same great family of the Romanians of the Balkans. It is a nation that has lived there and survived for more than 2000 years. As such it has its distictive charachter and outstanding ethnological interest. There are just 22 of them left who still identify themselves as Morlachs, why not spending the time and effort?Aldrasto (talk) 15:43, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

 * Aha in Istria, that's something else, it's interesting if they use "Morlachs" since they were using rather "Rumani" or "Vlasi" per records in the past. Yes there is small Istro-Romanian community there, but not 2.000 yrs old for sure, in the same place. 1st record of them was in the 12th century. It's not certain whether they were emigrants from Romania or the last remains of the inland Dalmatian language speeakers (in this case they would be 2.000 yrs old in the same place). It seems that Dalmatian language dialects in the inland (not in the islands and littoral cities) were more close to Romanian. Zenanarh (talk) 09:10, 17 December 2009 (UTC)

 * Slavonia, the Eastern part of Croatia was named Little Valachia meaning today little Romania (former Pokrac and Pojega sanjaks) . There was a large number of local Vlachs and Vlachs brought from eastern or southern parts of Serbia. Some Croats historians called them Morlachs. So the discussion is very long...

Riadder (talk) 09:50, 9 February 2018 (UTC)

Meaning of "Black"
It says in this article that "Black" might mean "Northern" according to Turkish name of the cardinal points, there might be some other explanations, for example this alternative explanation using the old-Slavonic cardinal points names (which is actually reversed)

"The ethnographic explanation that the term was applied from the old-Slavonic use of colours for the cardinal points on the compass. The ancient totem-god Svitovyd had four faces. The northern face of this totem was white (hence White Russia), the western face red (hence Chervona (Red) Rus'), the southern black and the eastern green (hence Zelenyj klyn). This, however, makes the placement of Black Ruthenia problematic." from White Russia. - signed by anon IP

So, which one is the correct (or most likely) explanation? -- man with one red shoe 15:47, 21 January 2010 (UTC)

First, Turkish is not Turkish, it's Old-Iranian. I've never heard about reverse Old-Slavonic (!?). There are other explanations about 'black' like color of Morlachian clothes - dark, black,... Zenanarh (talk) 07:18, 22 January 2010 (UTC)

 * I contend the term "black" is more attributed to geographical locations, like the "Black mountain" of Montenegro or in their language Crna Gora. The Dalmatian coasts have several mountains noted for their dark color, close to "black" and the inhabitants are beige or tanned due to the high amount of sunlight in a warmer climate of the Adriatic. But there were some tales of descendants of brown-skinned peoples known as the Balkan Egyptians whom are identified as ethnological relatives to the Romani people, and that the Morlachs are probably an autochtonous people in the Balkans before any other present-day Indo-European linguistic races appeared in southeastern Europe about 5000 years ago. But the terms "Moors" are commonly found in areas where Islam ruled parts of southern Europe and/or were settled by Moors, Arabs, Turks and even a miniscule number of West African slaves brought over to Europe in waves either by the Romans, Greeks, Byzantines and Ottomans, or western European traders. 71.102.1.101 (talk) 07:34, 6 August 2011 (UTC)

 * Zenanarh: The anon has a point. See Cardinal direction (which says nothing about Iranian). --Florian Blaschke (talk) 12:09, 2 April 2014 (UTC)

Croatian census
Please avoid eliminating Croatian census from text. It is official data not private data. Your edits are original research (OR) in the language of Wikipedia. Riadder (talk) 08:34, 9 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Please provide reference that Morlachs are "officially recognized ethnicity". People write in census that they are Klingon. This does not make Klingons recognized ethnicity in the United States or Russia (or in other countries where such idiots live). Staszek Lem (talk)
 * Please read what means Census and who made the Croatian Census. Your opinion is (OR) Original Research !Riadder (talk) 10:23, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
 * My opinion is not original research, because I do not add anything to wikipedia article. On the other hand, you did not provide a a reference I requested, as it is requires by Wikipedia rules. Staszek Lem (talk) 20:35, 12 February 2018 (UTC)

 * The Croatian census and Vlach situation is described in: http://www.refworld.org/pdfid/469cbf8f0.pdf Riadder (talk) 12:45, 15 February 2018 (UTC)
 * I only see one mention of Vlachs in table 1 - Ethnic structure of the population in Croatia, 1981–2001 (p. 7).
 * Note this distinction between census characterization and formal recognition: "In the 1991 census, many Croatian citizens declared themselves to be members of 23 nationalities, 22 of which enjoy the legal status of national minorities." (p. 6) François Robere (talk) 13:54, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

 * This article is about Morlachs. The census data does not list Morlachs. "Morlachs" is an obsolete term. Staszek Lem (talk) 17:27, 15 February 2018 (UTC)

Warning. Frecvent disrupting was reported to administrators. Please read about exonims before making disruptive edits. Denying the existence of a minority is a NATIONALISTIC and RASIST approach Riadder (talk) 05:59, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Two thoughts: First, that source says nothing about official recognition, so we definitely have to remove the word "recognized " until / unless a better source is found. I'm also concerned about the connection between the word "Morlachs" and "Vlachs" - that paragraph connects the two, but the source doesn't.  I would suggest trimming it down to just "In Croatia today, "Vlachs" are the smallest minority identified by name in the Croatian census, with 29 individuals declaring themselves Vlachs in the 2011 Croatian census."  Then this sentence has to be moved next to another (sourced) section talking about how the words relate to each other.  Even then, it might make more sense on the article for Vlachs, since the source doesn't mention the word Morlachs. --Aquillion (talk) 02:58, 17 February 2018 (UTC)
 * Morlachs are a historic social community and do not exist today. Those "Vlachs" are Istro-Romanians. There should be no mention of 29 individuals (?) at this article.--Z oupan 19:02, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

Do Morlachs exist in Croatia today?
Please see section above, and recent revert war. Staszek Lem (talk) 17:55, 16 February 2018 (UTC)

Survey

 * No. "Morlachs" is an obsolete term and the census data do not list them. Therefore the disputed paragraph does not belong to this article. Staszek Lem (talk) 17:55, 16 February 2018 (UTC)
 * No, or at least the sources we have at the moment don't support that. We can say that a small number of people identify as Vlachs, but we would need to place that after an additional source connecting the terms, and it would have to be more cautiously worded (the word "recognized" in particular is loaded and doesn't seem to necessarily reflect the source, which is unclear on what being in this list means.  Recognized by who or what?) --Aquillion (talk) 02:59, 17 February 2018 (UTC)

 * We need to keep all data about the Morlchs/Vlachs. They belong to the heritage of Croatia and denying their existence even their number is reduced is pure nationalism and racism. We do not need such approach in this article. The provided reference show the existence of a small number of Vlachs/Morlachs. The nationalism provided here is against normal education in Croatia.
 * Riadder (talk) 09:40, 21 February 2018 (UTC)

 * OTHER References on Morlachs/Vlachs census. Editors like Stasek and Aquillion do not understand that Morlach is an exonim for Vlach !

 * 1. Laurence Mitchell, Serbia, Publisher: Bradt Travel Guides LTD, USA, 2013, p.39, ISBN 978 1841624361

 * 2. Marianne Nikolov, Early Learning of Modern Foreign Languages: Processes and Outcomes, Publisher: Multilingual Matters, Bristol, Buffalo, Toronto, 2009, p. 31, ISBN 978 1847691460

86.124.160.242 (talk) 17:20, 2 March 2018 (UTC)
 * There is a Croatian Census: https://www.dzs.hr/hrv/censuses/Census2001/Popis/H01_03_10/H01_03_10.html  Here is clear the Vlachs(Morlachs) still exist in Croatia. We still have nationalists who deny minorities.

 * Fortis wrote that Morlachs did not necessarly call themselves Morlachs but rather Vlachs. Reference: Larry Wolff, Rise and fall of Morlachismo. In: Norman M. Naimark, Holly Case, Stanford University Press, Yugoslavia and Its Historians: Understanding the Balkan Wars of the 1990s, ISBN 978-0804745949 p.39

 * "Morlachs" is not an exonym for Vlachs, nor synonymous with 29 individuals identifying as Vlah in Croatia. This article is clear about the subject. is right in reverting the POV-warring .--Z oupan  21:00, 24 February 2018 (UTC)

 * This survey seems to be falsificated. There are references but users Zoupan and Staszek Lem did not read them. They use false hypotheses and original research. 93.122.251.75 (talk) 06:13, 25 February 2018 (UTC)

Minority heritage is often marginalized or even destroyed –it is sometimes even stripped of its right to be called ‘heritage,’ and the minorities this heritage belongs to are forced to live in conditions which are close to assimilation. It is the case of Morlachs/Vlachs from Croatia. 79.112.45.135 (talk) 06:51, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
 * Summoned by bot No the issue seems to be one of semantics, but the key issue is that in the report by a leading minority rights group used to support the claim morlachs still exist, it explicitly denies the existence of Morlachs in Croatia. Prince of Thieves (talk) 21:22, 11 March 2018 (UTC)
 * No per others. L3X1  ◊distænt write◊  12:14, 15 March 2018 (UTC)
 * That is not relevant here, go find a reliable source that says "Morlachs = Vlachs" and post it here. Prince of Thieves (talk) 12:41, 15 March 2018 (UTC)

Morlacchi = Vlassi of the sea
'' "This however is denied by the Abbé Fortis who hath published a volume of travels into that country. He informs us that the origin of the Morlacchi is involved in the darkness of barbarous ages ....

''With regard to the etymology of the name the Abbé observes that the Morlacchi generally call them selves in their own language Vlassi a national term of which no vestige is found in the records of Dalmatia till the 13th century. It signifies powerful men or men of authority and the denomination of Moro Vlassi, corruptly, Morlacchi as they are now called may perhaps point out the original of the nation. This word may posibly signify the conquerors that came from the sea Moor in all the dialects of the Sclavonian language signifying the sea. " ''

''The Morlacchi are so different from the inhabitants of the sea-coasts in dialect, dress, dispositions, that they seem clearly to be of a different original, or at least the colonies must have settled distant periods from each other, that they have had time to alter in a great measure their national character. There is also a remarkable diversity among the Morlacchi themselves in several districts on account of the different countries from whence they came.'' source:  "Encyclopedia Britannica", EDINBURGH PRINTED FOR A. BELL AND C. MACFARQUHAR MDCCXCVII  — Preceding unsigned comment added by 46.223.163.182 (talk) 18:32, 10 October 2020 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Morlachs


text: User talk:217.42.154.219

title: User talk:217.42.154.219


text:
USS McCall (DD-28)

USS McCall (DD-28) was a Paulding-class destroyer in the United States Navy during World War I and later in the United States Coast Guard, designated CG-14. She was the first ship named for Edward McCall.

McCall was laid down on 8 June 1909 by the New York Shipbuilding Company, Camden, New Jersey, launched on 4 June 1910, sponsored by Miss Jessie Willits, and commissioned on 23 January 1911.

United States Navy
Attached to the Torpedo Flotilla, Atlantic Fleet, McCall operated along the Atlantic coast, primarily out of Newport, Rhode Island and the Chesapeake Bay area. Each winter found her with the fleet in Cuban waters for maneuvers.

In 1916, McCall made Neutrality Patrols off New York and along the New England coast. On 14 June 1917, following overhaul at Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, she steamed to New York to escort a troop convoy to Europe. The destroyer continued escort duties in the western Atlantic until January 1918, when she sailed for Queenstown, Ireland. Arriving there on 22 February, she provided escort and rescue services until 16 December.

Upon return to the United States in January 1919, she resumed east coast operations until decommissioning at Philadelphia on 12 December 1919 and placed in the reserve fleet.

United States Coast Guard
McCall was transferred to the United States Coast Guard on 7 June 1924 and commissioned into service 17 June 1925 after a lengthy overhaul. Stationed at New London, Connecticut, she was part of the Rum Patrol. The Coast Guard decommissioned her 12 August 1930. She was returned to the Navy on 18 October 1930, and was scrapped and sold on 2 May 1934, in accordance with the London Naval Treaty.

title: USS McCall (DD-28)


text:
Kolchuga passive sensor

The Kolchuga (Кольчуга Chainmail) passive sensor is an electronic-warfare support measures (ESM) system developed in the Soviet Union and manufactured in Ukraine. Its detection range is limited by line-of-sight but may be up to 800 km for very high altitude, very powerful emitters. Frequently referred to as Kolchuga Radar, the system is not really a radar, but an ESM system comprising three or four receivers, deployed tens of kilometres apart, which detect and track aircraft by triangulation and multilateration of their RF emissions.

History
Kolchuga was developed in the 1980s by the Rostov military institute of GRU and Topaz radioelectronic factory in Donetsk. Manufactured since 1987, 44 units were produced before 1 January 1992, and 14 of them were left in Ukraine.

After the break up of the Soviet Union, Kolchuga-M was modernized by the Special Radio Device Design Bureau public holding, the Topaz holding, the Donetsk National Technical University, the Ukrspetsexport state company, and the Investment and Technologies Company. It took eight years (1993–2000) to conduct research, develop algorithms, test solutions on experimental specimens, and launch production. The relatively low-cost Ukrainian Kolchuga-M passive radar station is able to detect and identify practically all known active radio devices mounted on ground, airborne, or marine objects.

Mode of operation
Kolchuga is an electronic support measures system that employs two or more sites to locate emitters by triangulation. The system is vehicle mounted and comprises a large vertical meshed reflector, with two smaller circular parabolic dishes beneath and a pair of VHF-to-microwave log periodic antennas above. The dishes may exploit amplitude monopulse techniques for improved direction finding, whilst the angled spacing of the log-periodic antenna suggests that they may use phase interferometry to improve angle measurements. Various smaller antennas, presumably for inter-site communications are to the side and rear of the dish.

The detection range is one of the best in its class, but it is highly dependent on the emitted power of the transmitter being tracked, and requires satisfaction of the line of sight condition to at least two receiving sites for triangulation (compared with three sites for a multilateration system such as the VERA passive sensor). A Kolchuga complex can detect and locate air and surface targets and trace their movement to a range generally limited only by the common line-of-sight of the stations. Assuming no terrain masking, the line-of-sight range of a single Kolchuga station (in km) is approximately:
 * $$d(km) =130(\sqrt{hr(km)}+\sqrt{ht(km)})$$

where hr(km) is the height of the radar in km, and ht(km) is the height of the target in kilometres, and assuming standard atmospheric radio refraction. Thus, for a Kolchuga at 100 m altitude (above local terrain) and a target at 10 km (30 kft), the range of the system would be approximately 450 km. For targets at altitudes of 20 km (60 kft) the line of sight limitation would be 620 km—but few targets fly at such altitudes. Being line-of-sight limited, the system is an effective early warning air defense system against high power emitters.

System parameters
According to the manufacturer's brochure (from AIDEX 1997), the upgraded Kolchuga-M is equipped:

 * With four antennas in the VHF, UHF and SHF radio bands with narrow and wide beams
 * With parallel receivers allowing the instant discovery and analysis of signals of radio technical equipment (RTE) in the range 100 MHz -18 GHz and continual tracking across the entire band. [Other sources claim from 130MHz to 18GHz, and a 36 channel preset receiver].
 * With sensitivity of approximately -145 dBW
 * With equipment for the analysis, processing and continual calculation and tracking of coordinates by triangulation and chronometrical-hyperbolic method.
 * With equipment for the identification, operative displaying of information, long term memory and recording of the results of processing.

The brochure also claims that the system provides:
 * The detection, analysis of signals with pulsed and continuous waves and resolution of practically all known radio technical equipment (RTE) deployed on ground, sea and air platforms, including radar units of all classes, identification systems, air traffic control system and navigation systems
 * The composition, character of operation and flight paths of RTE in a zone 600 km deep with complete exception of blind zones and continual high accuracy
 * The detection of take-off of aerial targets and their formation in groups at a distance exceeding that of modern radars.
 * The direction of arrival of solitary and group targets and target indication to active facilities of anti-aircraft systems

Special inhibitory sorters omit up to 24 interfering signals, and tracking sorters make it possible to synchronously sort out and track signals from 32 targets;

Target identification
Kolchuga is able to detect and identify many types of radio devices mounted on ground, airborne, or marine objects. Target detection relies only on an emitter having sufficient power and being within Kolchuga's frequency range. Target identification, however, is more complex and is based on the measurement of different parameters of the transmitted signal—such as its frequency, bandwidth, pulse width, pulse repetition interval, etc. Kolchuga has been reported to use around forty different parameters when identifying a target. These parameters are compared to a database in order to identify both the type of emitter and, in some cases, even the specific piece of equipment (by identifying the unique signature or "fingerprint" that most transmitters have, due to the variations and tolerances in individual components). The database within Kolchuga is said to have the capacity to store around three hundred different types of emitter and up to five hundred specific signatures for each type.

Exports
Pakistan has expressed interest in purchasing the Kolchuga radar. Ukraine has offered it to Pakistan to counter India's Swordfish Long Range Tracking Radar.

In 2002 the U.S. State Department accused Ukraine of selling Kolchuga to Iraq, based on recordings of the then Ukrainian president Leonid Kuchma supposedly made by Mykola Mel'nychenko. This was followed by political steps from United Kingdom and the United States. No material confirmation has been found in Iraq. See Cassette Scandal for further information.

Unconfirmed reports in September 2006 suggested a sale was made to Iran although this was denied by the Ukrainian government.

On 20 January 2019, Ukrainian news Sources confirmed a Sale of Systems to Israel and Saudi Arabia.

Vietnam
🇻🇳 is a confirmed operator of the Kolchuga system. It has reportedly acquired 4 systems with the unit price of $27 million.

Even though the mentioned figures could be inaccurate or varied, the systems have been formally commissioned by the Vietnamese Air Defense - Air Force Service.

Rumours and speculation of performance
Since becoming publicly known following the Cassette Scandal, the capabilities of Kolchuga have been the source of many rumours and uninformed speculation. Many observers have a tendency to credit it with magical powers of detection. Many of these do not stand up to detailed engineering analysis, or have not been confirmed, but are recorded in this section for completeness, together with reasons for doubting the claim. Note that the material in this section should not be regarded as accurate. Claims include:
 * That Kolchuga has a range of 800 km. It will certainly have the sensitivity to see high power sources at such a range.  However, basic line-of-sight arguments outlined in the sections above show that this would require aircraft to be flying at impractically high altitudes and/or for the Kolchuga stations to be deployed on very high mountains.  The claim is thus technically possible but operationally very unlikely.
 * That Kolchuga can detect US stealth aircraft by their radio and radar emissions. Whilst technically possible, stealth aircraft do not radiate when in battle, so this mode of operation is militarily irrelevant.
 * Kolchuga is sufficiently sensitive to detect US stealth aircraft from unconventional sources of RF emissions, including radiation from exhaust trails and electromagnetic interference from the engine. (Technically the power levels of these sources are likely to be so small, if at all, that there would be insufficient energy for Kolchuga to measure these effects at one site, let alone the two or more required for triangulation.  They would also be almost impossible to distinguish for normal background RF noise and would not appear like the conventional emissions types Kolchuga is designed to receive and analyse).
 * Kolchuga is sufficiently sensitive to operate as a bistatic radar receiver and hence exploit other transmitters in the environment. (This is likely to be true for the specific case of forward scatter in which the radar cross section of even a stealth aircraft can become very large for a few moments.  However, achieving forward scatter simultaneously in two or more receivers is geometrically impossible, so triangulation would not work.  Secondly, unless Kolchuga has been specifically designed to work as a bistatic radar receiver with a certain radar type—and there's no evidence of Kolchuga being deployed in conjunction with specific radar types—then it will lack the essential matched filter required to reliably detect reflected pulses in the presence of noise.  Therefore, if this effect works at all, it is likely to be unreliable and fleeting).
 * Ukrainian sources often make claims such as " [Kolchuga] is head and shoulders above all American, Russian, French, Czech, or Brazilian developments in this field". Such claims are unsubstantiated and pure speculation, as the performance and even existence of many ESM systems are highly classified and not deducible by ELINT.  It may or may not be true, but must be regarded with caution, particularly as those making the claims are often either journalists or those with an interest in exporting the system.

title: Kolchuga passive sensor


text:
Julius No

Dr. Julius No is a fictional character and the main antagonist in the 1958 James Bond novel and its 1962 film adaptation Dr. No, the first of the series, in which he was portrayed by Joseph Wiseman.

Novel biography
The novel explains that Dr. No was born in Peking to a German Methodist missionary and a Chinese girl, but was raised by his aunt. As an adult, he went to Shanghai, where he was involved with the Tongs, Chinese crime syndicates. Later he was smuggled to the United States and settled in New York City, where he became a clerk and eventually Treasurer for a Tong in America, called the "Hip-Sings".

In the late 1920s, a mob war broke out in New York, forcing the police to crack down on them. No stole a million dollars in gold from the Tongs and disappeared. But the Tongs tracked him down and tortured him to find the location of the gold. When No refused to tell them, the Tongs cut off his hands, shot him through the left side of the chest and left him for dead. No survived, due to a condition called dextrocardia, in which his heart is on the right side of the body.

No spent a long time in hospital, then enrolled in medical school in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. He adopted the title of Doctor and changed his name to Julius No, symbolic of his rejection of his father, whose given name was Julius. As in the film, No fits himself with metal manual prostheses, but the book describes them as simple pincers. In physical appearance, Dr. No is tall and very thin. He is described as being at least 6 inches taller than Bond, who is six feet tall, meaning that he's probably around 6 ft 6 inches (198 cm) in height. His head is said to be shaped like a "reverse oil drop", due to his round head, pointed chin and the yellowish tinge of his skin. He also mentions that while in school, he did not make use of his metal hands, replacing them with waxen ones which were less useful but gave himself a more human appearance. In the novel he wears a gunmetal coloured kimono; due to his inability to hold a bell, he uses a walkie-talkie which he carries around his neck. He also wears one of the first ever pair of contact lenses, and has had a lip slice cosmetic surgery, as well as wearing stacked-heel shoes in order to make himself taller. All of these factors were employed by No to conceal his identity from the Tongs.

With the million dollars from the Tong, he purchases rare stamps in order to preserve his money against inflation; he later purchases the island of Crab Key, off the coast of Jamaica, where he restarts a defunct guano business as a cover for his criminal operations. He employs Jamaican and Cuban laborers for his guano business, which is a mixed blessing for them. The workers are brutally supervised by Jamaican "Chigroes" (a portmanteau of 'Chinese' + 'Negroes', referring to their mixed ancestry), however they are paid good wages and given decent accommodations. No one who comes to the island is allowed to leave.

No, with aid from the Soviets, sabotages the nearby tests of American missiles by jamming their signals and making them land and explode on a different target than that planned. This forces the Americans to spend time and money redesigning their missiles. He also recovers unexploded missiles from the ocean and turns them over to the Russians. No also admits there is more at play than the shopworn East-West rivalry; his intent is to create enmity between the USSR and USA in an attempt to make the Cold War hot. This was further revealed in Ernst Stavro Blofeld's master plan using the "three fighting fish" as an analogy; when the Cold War ended, SPECTRE would then engage in sabotage and subversion against the victor, now weakened from the war.

Bond does not actually learn of No's plot until he and Quarrel—with Honeychile Rider, who would trespass to find shells—had infiltrated Crab Key and been captured. Bond had gone there after Commander Strangways had disappeared, murdered by No's henchmen. Bond eventually kills No by suffocating him in a mound of guano.

Henchmen in the novel

 * Miss Taro
 * Miss Chung
 * Sister Rose
 * May
 * Riker
 * Other various "Chigroes"
 * The Three Blind Mice

Film biography
Dr. No is a brilliant scientist with an implied Napoleon complex, and an example of the mad scientist trope. He is a self-described "unwanted child of a German missionary and a Chinese girl of a good family". He later "became treasurer of the most powerful criminal society in China"; in this case, the Tongs. He then "escaped to America with $10,000,000" of Tong gold bullion. He specialized in radiation, which cost him both of his hands; they were replaced with crude bionic metal ones. No's hands have great strength (he can crush a metal figurine with them) but are lacking in manual dexterity which leads to his demise.

He offered his skills and expertise to the Americans, and then the Soviets, but was rejected by both superpowers. To get revenge, No joined the criminal organization SPECTRE and relocated to his island of Crab Key in Jamaica.

When Bond is sent to investigate the murder of two British agents and any possible connection with recent rocket disasters, No orders several attempts on 007's life. He is particularly displeased with henchman Professor Dent's failures, such as through the chauffeur Jones. He gives Dent a venomous spider, which is released in Bond's room whilst he sleeps; however, Bond wakes up, kills it, and lures Dent to a private house, where Dent is interrogated and then shot twice by Bond.

No fails in his own attempts to kill Bond; first, inadvertently, by locking him in a ventilation shaft, which is variously heated and filled with water; and then, deliberately, by beating him with his metal hands.

No captures Bond and Honey Ryder when they trespass on his island, and they are put through a decontamination shower since No's henchmen detected radiation on them. Inviting them to dinner at his private apartment, he offers Bond a position in his organization, but Bond refuses. Bond escapes through a ventilation shaft (and avoiding the obstacles of heat and flooding), and disguises himself with a radiation suit. Bond enters the control area where No and his assistants are preparing to disrupt the launch of an American rocket. Bond sabotages No's swimming pool reactor, allowing the American missile to launch successfully while No and most of his henchmen do not understand it. When No observes Bond's sabotage, the two men fight while the other personnel flee the imminent explosion. They fall onto a small platform that slowly descends into the boiling coolant of the overheating reactor. Bond manages to climb out, but No cannot get a grip on the metal framework, due to his metal hands, and falls to his death. Bond frees Honey from where she has been chained in a room filling with water, and escapes before the reactor explodes.

SPECTRE learned of the death of Dr. No and they vowed revenge on James Bond, which led to the events in From Russia with Love. This also set up the recurring battles of James Bond with SPECTRE in the future films.

Henchmen in the film

 * Miss Taro – arrested
 * Professor Dent – shot by Bond
 * Annabel Chung
 * Mr. Jones – poisoned himself with a cyanide laced cigarette
 * The Three Blind Mice – Explosion in car falling off cliff
 * Sister Rose
 * Sister Lily
 * Jamaican guards

Other appearances

In the Daily Express James Bond comic-strip series by Yaroslav Horak and Jim Lawrence, Dr. No reappears in the story-line Hot-Shot, published between January 16, 1976 - June 1, 1976. In it, Dr. No had survived his previous encounter with James Bond and has remerged as a wealthy Indian businessman named Mr. Huliraya, who serves as the main antagonist of the story.

Dr. No made several appearances in the cartoon series James Bond Jr.. His skin, however, was rendered bright green similar to the Mandarin in Iron Man possibly due to the chemicals he was exposed to in the film. (In reality there was a mandate to try and not include too many ethnic characters as villains in cartoons, so quite a few Asian looking characters were given green skin like Dr. No, the Mandarin or Ming the Merciless in Defenders of the Earth).

Julius No also appeared in the video game GoldenEye: Rogue Agent (almost-completely unrelated, especially in the meaning of the title, to the 1995 film), voiced by Carlos Alazraqui. Despite his death in both the book and film, he appears alongside fellow enemies Ernst Stavro Blofeld, Auric Goldfinger, Francisco Scaramanga and Xenia Onatopp. In the game, Xenia Onatopp works for No and he seems to possess a considerable army of well-equipped henchmen as well as numerous tanks and helicopter gunships that resemble V-22 Ospreys. He also seems to have soldiers placed on countless rooftops and buildings in Hong Kong. He is electrocuted by his own reactor in a fight with the rogue 00 agent "GoldenEye".

Julius No is also a multiplayer character in the video game 007: From Russia with Love and is a playable multiplayer character in the 2010 video game GoldenEye 007 for the Wii

The character of Dr. No makes a brief appearance in a 2012 Heineken beer commercial to promote the release of the twenty-third Bond film, Skyfall.

Non-official James Bond media
In Myths for the Modern Age: Philip José Farmer's Wold Newton Universe (Win Scott Eckert, ed., MonkeyBrain Books, 2005), Win Scott Eckert contributes "Who's Going to Take Over the World When I'm Gone?" wherein he posits that No's mother was an agent of Fu Manchu named Madame de Medici, who was in turn the daughter of Fu Xi, from Sax Rohmer's novel The Golden Scorpion. Likewise in The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen: Black Dossier, No is stated as being a distant relative of Fu Manchu. Later in the book, it is revealed that Bond's mission to stop Dr. No was a fraud, an alibi for Bond to kill a British leader for the Americans — "There was No Doctor."

In the alternate history novel Dracula Cha Cha Cha, Dr. No (along with Mr. Big) is mentioned as being vampire elders killed and drained by the Diogenes Club agent Hamish Bond.

Cultural references
During the 1981 Ontario general election Progressive Conservative Premier Bill Davis mocked the Liberal leader Dr. Stuart Smith and his critical attitude towards the government by calling him "Dr. No". "Dr. No" was also used as the nickname of Northern Irish unionist politician Ian Paisley, due to his long-standing opposition to making concessions to Northern Ireland's Catholic community and to Irish nationalism. Similarly, American Republican politician and physician Tom Coburn was also known as "Dr. No" for his frequent opposition to legislation in the United States Congress, particularly bills which would increase federal spending. This nickname was also given to Representative Ron Paul for voting similarly against many bills, as well as his background as a medical doctor.

Art critic Lawrence Alloway compared the pessimistic and gory writing of British art critic Robert Melville about artist Francis Bacon to the speech patterns of Dr. No in 'DR. NO'S BACON', Art News and Review, 9 April 1960.

Parodies

 * In a nod to this character, the master villain of the 1967 Bond spoof Casino Royale is named "Dr. Noah".
 * Star Trek: Deep Space Nine features a parodic villain named "Dr. Noah" in the episode "Our Man Bashir".
 * The television series Get Smart featured part Chinese villains named "Dr. Yes" (with unusually long, sharp fingernails, at least one of which is lethally envenomed) and "The Claw" (with a magnetic claw in place of one hand).
 * Doctor Claw appears as the perennial villain in the Inspector Gadget series.
 * Dr. No also has made appearances in Auckland University Students' Association election campaigns, as a face for the 'no confidence' vote.
 * Lego Agents main villain "Dr. Inferno" is a parody of Dr. No.
 * Austin Powers series main antagonist Dr. Evil is a parody of several Bond villains, including Julius No.
 * The 1964 Flintstones episode "Dr. Sinister" features a character named "Madam Yes", a parody of Dr. No.
 * In an episode of the animated series The Fairly OddParents, Schnozmo must regain his brother Comso's trust by "saving" him from the evil Dr. Maybe.
 * The main antagonist of the James Pond franchise is named Dr. Maybe.
 * The main antagonist of the Operation Stealth video game (released as James Bond: The Stealth Affair in the U.S.) is named Dr. Why.

title: Julius No


text: Category:Cosmism

title: Category:Cosmism


text:
Maria Perschy

Herta-Maria Perschy (23 September 1938 – 3 December 2004) was an Austrian actress whose career included performances on screen with actor Rock Hudson and on American television in both daytime and prime time.

Early life
Perschy was born in Eisenstadt, then part of Nazi Germany, now in Burgenland, Austria and moved to Vienna at the age of 17 to study acting.

Career
After completing her education, she moved to West Germany for more training, leading to a film career. Her first major success came with Nasser Asphalt where she played together with Horst Buchholz. Her acting career would eventually take her — by way of France, Italy and the United Kingdom — to Hollywood. Perschy played in a number of American films, her most notable roles being in the 1962 biopic Freud, the 1964 Rock Hudson comedy, Man's Favorite Sport?, and the 1964 hit war movie 633 Squadron. Perschy's career in America eventually declined and by the late 1970s her only US appearances were brief roles in TV shows such as Hawaii Five-O and General Hospital.

While shooting in Spain in 1971, Perschy suffered a burn injury from an accident that required several operations before she could resume her career. Perschy returned to her native Austria in 1985 and continued to perform in a series of plays and TV series.

In 1972, she filmed Castle of Fu Manchu with Christopher Lee and Richard Greene. When it aired on television in New York City four years later, The New York Times noted that the film would be "[w]ell worth viewing, if it's as sharp and fast as others in this new series".

Death
On 3 December 2004, Perschy died of cancer in Vienna.

Selected filmography
• Nichts als Ärger mit der Liebe (1956)

• Roter Mohn (1956) - Extra (uncredited)

• Nasser Asphalt (1958) - Bettina

• Der schwarze Blitz (1958) - Gretl Mittermayr

• Die Landärztin (1958) - Afra

• Il moralista (1959) - Monique

• Of Course, the Motorists (1959) - Karin Dobermann

• Call Girls of Rome (1960) - Claudia

• The Hero of My Dreams (1960) - Franziska Kleinschmidt

• Love in Rome (1960) - Eleonora Curtatoni

• Ordered to Love (1961) - Doris Korff

• Wenn beide schuldig werden (1962) - Josi

• Melody of Hate (1962) - Claudia / Martina

• The Password Is Courage (1962) - Irena

• Freud (1962) - Magda (uncredited)

• The Mad Executioners (1963) - Ann Barry

• 633 Squadron (1964) - Hilde Bergman

• Man's Favorite Sport? (1964) - Isolde 'Easy' Mueller

• Mystery of the Red Jungle (1964) - Claudia Laudon

• No Survivors, Please (1964) - Ginny Desmond

• Secret of the Sphinx (1964) - Hélène Blomberg

• Extraconiugale (1964) - Eva (segment "La moglie svedese")

• The Bandits of the Rio Grande (1965) - Helen

• African Gold (1965) - Helena Hanson

• Kiss Kiss, Kill Kill (1966) - Joan Smith

• Seven Vengeful Women (1966) - Ursula

• The Desperate Ones (1967) - Marusia

• Five Golden Dragons (1967) - Margret

• A Witch Without a Broom (1967) - Mariana

• Spy Today, Die Tomorrow (1967) - Lu Forrester

• The Castle of Fu Manchu (1969) - Marie / Ingrid

• Dr. Fabian: Laughing Is the Best Medicine (1969) - Dr. Inge Vollmer

• El último día de la guerra (1970) - Elena Truppe

• Murders in the Rue Morgue (1971) - Genevre

• The Leo Chronicles (1972)

• Hunchback of the Morgue (1973) - Frieda

• El espectro del terror (1973) - María

• The Ghost Galleon (1974) - Lillian

• Los fríos senderos del crimen (1974) - Jane

• Blue Eyes of the Broken Doll (1974) - Ivette

• Dites-le avec des fleurs (1974) - La femme de Klaus

• La noche de la furia (1974) - Jill

• Exorcismo (1975) - Patricia

• La Diosa salvaje (1975) - Isabel von Marnix

• The Adolescents (1975) - Miss Stella Larsen

• My Husband Prefers Virgins (1975) - Luisa

• Las protegidas (1975) - Sra. de Aguirre

• El límite del amor (1976) - Madre Superiora

• The People Who Own the Dark (1976) - Lily

• Batida de raposas (1976) - Mercedes

• The Standard (1977) - Mordax

• Hawaii Five-O (1978, Episode: "Sleeper") - Sonya

• Les Morfalous (1984) - Pamela Windsor

• Harry and Harriet (1990) - Ruth Olsen

title: Maria Perschy


text:
Wikipedia:Pro and con lists

A number of Wikipedia articles contain pro and con lists: lists of arguments for and against some particular contention or position. These take several forms, including lists of advantages and disadvantages of a technology; pros and cons of a proposal which may be technical Wi-Fi or otherwise; and lists of criticisms and defenses of a political position or other view (such as socialism or creationism; lists on those articles have since been removed).

In some cases a "pros and cons" list is appropriate, in others not; where inappropriate, the template Pro and con list can be added as a preliminary to rewording the article without such a list. Criteria on the appropriateness of pro and con lists include:
 * Is a pro and con list likely to be factually useful to a reader, rather than simply listing opposing opinions?
 * Does the list concisely summarise brief specific and uncontroversial points?
 * Does the list include objective facts that most people agree upon, rather than the expression of different opinions?

Listed pros and cons must, as for all content, be sourced by a reference, either in the list or elsewhere in the article.

(A "criticisms and defenses" list is a backwards pro and con list. The opposing side is presented first, followed by the responses of the defending side. Lists of this form seem to grow out of more contentious articles.)

Rationale
In many articles the purpose of pro and con lists is to encapsulate or bracket neutral point of view (NPOV) problems, by making separate logical spaces in which different points of view can be expressed. They are preferable over "thread-mode" discussions in which editors insert responses from alternating points of view. However, pro and con lists used in this way lead to problems of their own, and generally show that an article needs more work to integrate different points of view. Ultimately, pro and con lists may be a symptom of unresolved NPOV problems, rather than being a successful strategy for resolving them.

Structure of a thread-mode discussion (bad!)
 * Point from POV A
 * Response from POV B
 * Response to response, from POV A
 * Another point from POV A
 * Another response from POV B
 * Response to response, from POV A
 * Response3, from POV B

Structure of a pro and con list

 * Pro side (e.g. Advantages)
 * Point from POV A
 * Another point from POV A
 * Con side (e.g. Disadvantages)
 * Point from POV B
 * Another point from POV B

So what's wrong with pro and con lists?
Pro and con lists are an improvement (for Wikipedia's purposes) over thread-mode discussions. However, they pose problems both for the reader and for future editors.

Pro and con lists fragment the presentation of facts. There are many issues on which there is a difference of opinion over whether some fact is a benefit or a detriment. For instance, it is a fact that Wi-Fi networks use unlicensed radio spectrum. This has advantages and disadvantages, many of which are subjective or relative. However, in a pro and con list, the advantages of unlicensed spectrum will be grouped with other unrelated advantages, and the disadvantages with unrelated disadvantages – rather than both being presented in a section about unlicensed spectrum.

Details about the matter will be split between the pro and con sides, presented either redundantly (which is bad) or selectively to promote the two different POVs (worse). So a reader who is interested in reading about the facts of a matter ends up having to jump back and forth between the pro and con sides of the list.

Pro and con lists oversimplify controversies. There are issues where describing a dispute or controversy is an important part of an article. There is no way to discuss certain subjects adequately without discussing the massive controversies on these issues. Pro and con lists seem to be a way to describe the views of the different sides on a controversy.

However, few controversies really have just two sides. The pro and con list format is rarely expanded to include more than two views – young Earth creationism and old Earth creationism contradict one another thoroughly, but in a pro and con list that pits creationism against evolution, they are wedged into the same side. While this may represent the political alliance of young- and old-Earth creationists, it does not accurately represent the claims and arguments made. It sacrifices accuracy for politics – a devil's bargain for a Wikipedia editor!

Pro and con lists invite spurious correspondences between "sides". One way that a future editor can "improve" a pro and con list is to attempt to point out the connections between points on either side of the list, or to set up correspondences between specific points. (This is a natural response to a criticisms and defenses list, and can take the shape of a 2xN table, as seen in this old version of Plural of virus.)

However, real-world disagreements are rarely so simple that they can be lined up in tables of correspondences. As a result, the "sides" that are depicted in such a pro and con list veer towards being misrepresented. Even though a pro and con list is usually better than thread-mode, in this fashion it can run down over successive edits until it is equivalent to thread-mode.

Pro and con lists are never complete, and thus invite biased contributions. For any given viewpoint, there is generally a large number of arguments that can be marshalled for it. An editor with a tendency towards one of the positions described in a pro and con list can easily see that the strengths of his own position and the weaknesses of the other are not fully expressed. A natural reaction is to edit the list to enhance the arguments on the favored side and weaken those in the opposition.

This kind of behavior not only degrades the quality of the article, but leads editors to drift into "camps" opposing one another. This can lead down two paths. In the presence of hot-headed editors, it leads to edit wars; otherwise it leads to an article which is a precarious compromise between the camps rather than a collaboration among editors. (Articles of this sort can be recognized by the fact that a new editor coming along starts putting in revisions and blows away the carefully balanced compromise worked out on the talk page.)

Finally, pro and con lists have a tendency to encourage forbidden primary research, by encouraging contributors to add to one side or another to balance out the other side-the problem being that the contributor himself thought of the argument.

Alternatives
Contrast these versions of the article Internet Explorer – and also see the "Features" section of the present version. Editors recategorized a pro & con list of "positive and negative features" of the popular Web browser into a form which is more balanced, more accurate, and more suitable for future editing. We may disagree on whether a given feature is positive or negative; we can agree on whether it is present or absent. Observing the edit history of the article since then, we find that while other parts of it have been fiercely disputed since then, the previously contentious "Features" list has become relatively settled.

Alternative forums
If you are thinking of creating one of these lists, you may find a more appropriate forum outside the encyclopedia. Debate and discussion sites include:

 * Debategraph
 * Kialo
 * ProCon.org

Cleanup
Adding Pro and con list to an article will display:

This will add pages to. As an alternative, the matter can be taken to the article talk page for discussion.

title: Wikipedia:Pro and con lists


text:
Moss v. Bush

Moss v. Bush (Supreme Court of Ohio Case Nos. 04-2055 and 04-2088) was a lawsuit filed by 37 voters in the U.S. state of Ohio, challenging Ohio's certified electoral college votes in the 2004 U.S. presidential election. It was filed on 13 December 2004, and dismissed at the plaintiffs' request following the acceptance of Ohio's votes by the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate on January 6, 2005. The suit was headed by Cliff Arnebeck of the Alliance for Democracy.

Following the dismissal, Arnebeck's group filed a motion to intervene in a federal case brought on Election Day by the Ohio Democratic Party against Ohio Secretary of State Kenneth Blackwell. That motion was opposed by the Ohio Democratic Party and ultimately denied.

Details of the case
The case challenged Ohio's certification of its electoral votes, which had been awarded to George W. Bush and his running mate, Dick Cheney, the candidates on the Republican Party ticket. The plaintiffs alleged that there had been widespread systematic election fraud that altered the outcome of the election. On that basis, the suit asked the courts to set aside the certified results, and, possibly, award the state's electoral votes to John Kerry and his running mate, John Edwards, the candidates on the Democratic Party ticket. If successful, shifting Ohio's 20 electoral votes in the 2004 presidential election would have had the effect of shifting the overall election from Bush to Kerry. The case was ultimately dismissed. See generally 2004 United States presidential election, results.

Litigation
Following the November election, Ohio's electors were scheduled to meet and cast their votes for President Bush on 13 December 2004. On that same day, various Ohio citizens (the "Contestors") filed an Election Contest Petition alleging fraud in the conduct of the Ohio election and a Motion for Temporary restraining order and Preliminary injunction seeking to prevent Ohio's electors from meeting or casting their vote before completion of the Election Contest.

On 16 December 2005, Justices' Thomas Moyer and Maureen O'Connell, in separate opinions, dismissed Moss v. Bush I without prejudice to refiling the action as two separate cases. Both Justice Moyer and Justice O'Connell ruled that Ohio election law did not permit Contestors to challenge the election of two different officials in a single Petition.

On 17 December, the case was refiled, with it now referring only to the election of Ohio's electors for the presidential electoral college. A request was also made that the Court declare the Kerry-Edwards presidential ticket the rightful winner of Ohio's electoral votes.

On 12 January 2005, Moss v. Bush was dismissed at the Contestors' request.

Motion for sanctions
On 18 January 2005, Ohio's Secretary of State filed a motion for sanction against the plaintiffs, alleging that the claim in Moss v. Bush was meritless, did not meet the standards of evidence required by law, and was brought only for partisan political purposes.

On 19 May 2005, Chief Justice Moyer denied the motion for sanctions. Justice Moyer concluded that, although "[t]he Contestors indeed made multiple allegations in the complaint that are, at best, highly improbable and potentially defamatory, inflammatory, and devoid of logic" (Paragraph 4), and "[d]espite the apparently scurrilous nature of most of these allegations," (Paragraph 16), sanctions were not appropriate under Ohio law for two reasons. First, Justice Moyer concluded that unlike civil litigation, the election contest statutes of Ohio do not permit sanctions for meritless charges. (Paragraphs 17-24). Second, because the Contestors dismissed their suit before evidence was gathered, Justice Moyer concluded that even if sanctions were permitted by law, there was not enough evidence before the Court to issue sanctions. (Paragraph 25).

Moss v. Moyer
On 20 December 2004, the case contesting "...the certification of the election of Thomas Moyer for the office of Chief Justice of the Ohio Supreme Court for the term commencing in 2005." was refiled. The case is known as Moss v. Moyer, Ohio Supreme Court Case No. 04-2106. Justice Maureen O'Connor was designated to preside over the matter by Governor Bob Taft.

On 28 December 2004, Justice O'Connor issued an order stating that under Ohio Rule of Civil Procedure 9(b), the Contestors were required to plead the alleged acts of fraud in the election for Chief Justice with greater particularity. She ordered that Contestors do so by 7 January 2005, allowed their opponents until 14 January 2005 to respond, and stayed any discovery proceeding pending those pleadings.

On 12 January 2005, Moss v. Moyer was dismissed at the request of the Contestors.

Moss v. Bush

 * Moss v. Bush I case docket
 * Moss v. Bush II case docket
 * Second filing (pdf) (mirror) (filed 2004.12.17)
 * Contestors' Emergency Motion for Expedited Hearing and Emergency Expedited Relief to Prevent Spoliation of Evidence and to Preserve Documentary and Electronic Evidence (pdf) (filed 2004.12.17)
 * Order denying expedited hearing and asking two questions (pdf) (decided 2004.12.22)
 * Justice Moyer denies motion regarding the affidavits and exhibits (pdf) (decided 2004.12.29)
 * Justice Moyer refuses to recuse himself (pdf) (decided 2004.12.29)
 * Depositions: (submitted 2004.12.31)
 * Dr. Ron Baiman (pdf) - Professor of statistics, Institute of Government and Public Affairs, University of Illinois in Chicago
 * Dr. Werner Lange (pdf) - Professor of sociology, University of Pennsylvania in Edinburg and part-time pastor
 * Dr. Richard Hayes Phillips (pdf) - Professor, Doctor of Geomorphology, Master of History, Master of Geography, and Bachelor of Politics
 * other briefs

Moss v. Moyer

 * Moss v. Moyer case docket
 * First filing (pdf) (filed 2004.12.20)
 * Motion for admission pro hac vice granted (pdf) (decided 2004.12.27)

title: Moss v. Bush


text:
User:Arorae

Call me Arorae.

My (somehow broken) English is far from perfection. But please, improve it, when necessary - Thanks.

Arorae Arorae Arorae Arorae Arorae

title: User:Arorae


text:
Template talk:ConflictOfInterest

Isn't this now more a "Not 'Pedia Material" template? I thought it was supposed to be about Vanity. —iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 21:00, Dec 18, 2004 (UTC)

 * Somewhat. It still talks about creating a user page for themselves instead of an article, which suggests that the article is about themselves, and you can write a vanity page about some subject which is not you but closely related to you.
 * I'm concerned about this template; I'd like to stress that it should only be placed after a decision has been reached on VfD, since it does prejudge the article. Moreover, others viewing the article really don't need to see it. A more appropriate template would be one that links an article and goes on the user's user page. Finally, I think there's a bit too much jargon — people who commit this sin are usually newbies. I'm going to take a stab at these issues. Deco 07:56, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

 * I made some changes, I hope they seem good. I think it really needs a link to a good page about what Wikipedia considers notable, but the closest thing I could find is Important. Deco 08:04, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Table
I'm concerned about the layout of theis template. Since it's very often given to newcomers making their very first article, I fear that the big red table will have a tendency to scare away potential contributors. For now, I'm de-table-izing this template on the grounds that it's counterproductive. If anybody prefers that it stay, then we'll figure something out. – ClockworkSoul 03:13, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * I've reverted it to a table. I got a shock when I discovered articles that I'd tagged — the text becomes part of the article, and is very confusing. Mel Etitis  ( Μελ Ετητης ) 11:11, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

 * Heya Mel. The table itself is fine, I think, but the color may be a little intimidating for a newcomer to get on his/her talk page. What do you say we make it, say, blue? – ClockworkSoul 13:12, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

This is a user talk page only template
As the wording of the template makes clear, it is meant to be used on user talk pages. We have about 2^34 different templates for labeling articles in need of cleanup, e.g. Template:Explain significance, Template:Cleanup-importance and even Template:Music-importance. Please do not turn this into yet another pastel colored box which people put on top of articles, it should be formatted as a comment and used as such, never on articles.--Eloquence* 16:22, May 4, 2005 (UTC)

Copying article to talk page
I've just used this template on a couple of talk pages. Both times were for very short (one sentence or one paragraph) "articles" that I thought the user might wish to copy on to their user page. However, as both articles were tagged for speedy deletion as non-notable bios, I thought that it would be nice to copy the text of the article onto the talkpage so the user could copy it even if the article was deleted before they got the chance to do so. Here's the format I used both times (including the welcome template, as they were brand new talk pages):

 * Article
 * The contents of this article has been reproduced below in case

you would like to copy it to your user page:
 * (Contents of article)

What I'm wondering is if there's any good way to incorporate this into the template, or if perhaps a new template should/could be made to incorporate this (with or without the welcome message). It might not be a good idea if this template is ever used on longer articles that would seriously clutter up the talk page (one reason to have a separate template for when it is appropriate, rather than making it part of this template), and I don't know if it's even possible to duplicate an article onto another page like this, but I thought I'd at least throw the idea out there. Another possibility would be to make it some sort of invisible note suggesting that the editor using the template make it un-invisible and alter it as necessary (with pipes?  Like, article or something?  I'm not terribly familiar with template construction) but if it's invisible then there's a good chance that many editors wouldn't even know it existed.

Anyway, like I said, just throwing the idea out there. Any thoughts?

Link to policy
Should there be a link to Deletion of vanity articles in the template? Nationalparks 04:44, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Bothering me
I realize this template will often be put on the talk pages of users who aren't really interested in contributing to Wikipedia... but I don't like the way it implies that all subjects have to be notable to merit inclusion. WP:N is not policy, and it's been rejected as a guideline. Some of the more specific ones are, but they don't imply that all subjects must be notable. Is there a way to rewrite this so it doesn't look like notability is the official stance of wikipedia for everything? Mango juice talk 14:44, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Parameterless form
I've modified the template code to work without being passed an article name as a parameter: It's pretty self-explanatory, and I don't think it will hurt anything. Let me know if it's a different story. -- Omicronpersei8 (talk) 05:57, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

Conflict of interest
This template barely addresses the issue of conflict of interest. It is mostly about notability. We do not want them to write articles about notable people where they have a conflict of interest. —Centrx→talk • 13:34, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

title: Template talk:ConflictOfInterest


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Mentevale

Mentevale
I noticed this entry among the articles that needed urgent translation. I have read this article, it refers to a hypothetical white-collar variation of "manovale", the Italian word for "laborer". To my knowledge, and that of Garzanti's & other dictionaries, this word does not exist. The definition looks like a neologism from a blog which this article advertises and whose link is also broken. The bpttom half of the article contains comments which seem to be taken from that blog but i could find no confirmation for that either. It sounds like a strong political protest against Italian state employees and their poor working conditions. As such, i do not think it belongs here or to any Wikis at all and i think it should be deleted.

Wikipedius 20:57, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, Italian rant. Wyss 23:22, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete --fvw *  23:28, 2004 Dec 18 (UTC)
 * del Mikkalai 02:33, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)

For what it's worth, here are the comments from Pages needing translation into English:
 * Looks like Italian. A Google translation suggests that its a dictdef and/or nonsense; could someone confirm? [[User:David_Johnson|David Johnson [ T|C ] ]] 16:36, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Looks like its about an Italian-language neologism; I didn't spend a lot of time on it, but the second half looks comic. Probably Italian Wiktionary, at best. -- Jmabel | Talk 22:02, Dec 11, 2004 (UTC)

 * Delete. Although it was only on Pages needing translation into English for a week, I think we have given it enough time. We have no idea what it may contain, and the IP who contributed it has replied in what appears to be the same language in Talk:Mentevale, so we are unlikely to get help from them. I've left them the best welcome I could think of. Andrewa 17:37, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * delete I've never heard it in Italy --Melaen 14:52, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete: neologism + rant. Wile E. Heresiarch 06:07, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete as long as it is indeed neologism. David Johnson [ T|C ] 23:31, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)


text:
Leonard Horner

Leonard Horner FRSE FRS FGS (17 January 1785 – 5 March 1864) was a Scottish merchant, geologist and educational reformer. He was the younger brother of Francis Horner.

Horner was a founder of the School of Arts of Edinburgh, now Heriot-Watt University and one of the founders of the Edinburgh Academy. A 'radical educational reformer' he was involved in the establishment of University College School. As a commissioner on the Royal Commission on the Employment of Children in Factories, Horner arguably did more to improve the working conditions of women and children in North England than any other person in the 19th century.

Early life and education
His father, John Horner, was a linen merchant in Edinburgh, and partner in the firm of Inglis & Horner. Leonard, the third and youngest son, attended the High School and entered the University of Edinburgh in 1799. There in the course of the next four years he studied chemistry and mineralogy, and gained a love of geology from Playfairs Illustrations of the Huttonian Theory. At the age of nineteen he became a partner in a branch of his father's business, and went to London.

Career
In 1808 he joined the newly formed Geological Society of London and two years later was elected one of the secretaries. Throughout his long life he was ardently devoted to the welfare of the society; he was elected president in 1846 and again in 1860. In 1811 he read his first paper On the Mineralogy of the Malvern Hills (Trans. Geol. Soc. vol. i.) and subsequently communicated other papers on the Brine-springs at Droitwich, and the Geology of the S.W. part of Somersetshire.

He was elected fellow of the Royal Society in 1813. In 1815 he returned to Edinburgh to take personal superintendence of his business, and while there (1821) he was instrumental in founding the Edinburgh School of Arts on Adam Square where the instruction of mechanics and art was taught, and he was one of the founders of the Edinburgh Academy. In 1827 he was invited to London to become warden of London University (now University College London), an office which he held for four years; he then resided at Bonn for two years and pursued the study of minerals and rocks, communicating to the Geological Society on his return a paper on the Geology of the Environs of Bonn, and another On the Quantity of Solid Matter suspended in the Water of the Rhine. He made significant contributions to the study of loess material and loess deposits and published what is probably the first illustration of a loess section. He also produced the first map of the Siebengebirge region of the Rhineland.

In 1828 he returned to Edinburgh to take charge of his ailing father's company. In 1829, on the death of his father, he took full charge of the company, and continued in this role until 1833.

In 1833 he was appointed one of the commissioners to inquire into the employment of children in the factories of Great Britain, and he was subsequently selected as one of the inspectors. He held this post for 26 years and during this time arguably did more to improve the working condition of women and children in the mills of north England than any other person in the 19th-century and for which he was praised by Karl Marx in Das Kapital. In later years he devoted much attention to the geological history of the alluvial lands of Egypt; and in 1843 he published his Life of his brother Francis.

Family
Horner married Anna Susanna Lloyd, daughter of Gamaliel Lloyd.

They had six daughters, all of whom educated to a high standard for the age. The eldest, Mary Elizabeth, married Sir Charles Lyell, author of The Principles of Geology in 1832. Her younger sister Katharine married Lyell's younger brother Henry in 1848, and later edited The Life, Letters and Journals of Sir Charles Lyell. A third daughter, Frances, married Charles Bunbury, a noted paleobotanist. A fourth daughter, Leonora, married Georg Heinrich Pertz, a historian and archivist; one of their children was Dorothea Pertz and through this connection Horner was the step-great-great-grandfather of astronomer and astrophysicist Cecilia Payne-Gaposchkin. Two other daughters, Susan and Joanna, were known in their day as the authors of a book on walking tours of Florence, Italy.

Freemasonry
He was Initiated into Scottish Freemasonry in 1803 in Lodge Canongate Kilwinning, No.2. He was also an honorary member of Lodge Kirknewton and Ratho, No.85, this also being conferred in 1803.

Death
He died in Montagu Square in London on 5 March 1864.

title: Leonard Horner