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Sint Maarten national football team

The Sint Maarten national football team is the football team of Sint Maarten, the Dutch half of the Caribbean island of Saint Martin, and is controlled by the Sint Maarten Football Federation. Sint Maarten is not a member of FIFA, and therefore not eligible to enter the World Cup. However, the association applied for FIFA membership in 2016 but was rejected. In April 2022, the Sint Maarten Soccer Association appealed to the CAS against FIFA’s ruling.

In 2002, the Sint Maarten Soccer Association was given associate membership in CONCACAF and became full members at the XXVIII Ordinary Congress in April 2013 after becoming an independent country of the Kingdom of the Netherlands after the Netherlands Antilles was dissolved in 2010. They are also members of the Caribbean Football Union and first took part in the Caribbean Cup in its inaugural edition in 1989.

History
From 1992 to 2016, the team had played approximately only 25 official matches. Between 2000 and 2016, only one match had been played, an unofficial 2–2 draw at home to Sint Eustatius on 20 August 2004. In 2012, SMSA President Owen Nickie stated that the national team's inactivity was due to a lack of needed improvements on their home stadium. He indicated that not having enough players to choose from had also prevented the team from competing in the past but that they had more than enough players at that time. At that time, the association discussed hosting the Leeward Islands Tournament and participating in 2012 Caribbean Cup qualification as two of its objectives for the year. Nickie described not entering a team in the Caribbean Cup in the past as "unfortunate". In August 2014, Sint Maarten was set to co-host the Leeward Islands Tournament which had been dormant at that time for over ten years. However, the tournament was postponed after Sint Maarten withdrew as host because of difficulties with the newly installed lights at the Raoul Illidge Sports Complex and Anguilla, the other host, withdrew for unspecified reasons. One report also indicated that the hosts withdrew because of an "inability to facilitate teams." In May 2015, a match was organized by the SMSA as a showcase for selecting a national team player pool. It was open to all players with a Dutch passport. Although Sint Maarten's senior team was dormant, a youth selection participated in the inaugural CONCACAF Under-15 Championship in August 2013 and Sint Maarten co-hosted the 2015 CFU Boy's Under-15 Championship after the 2015 CONCACAF Under-15 Championship was canceled by CONCACAF for unspecified reasons.

2017 Caribbean Cup
Sint Maarten returned to international football in 2016, entering 2017 Caribbean Cup qualification and being drawn into Group 2 along with Grenada and the US Virgin Islands with the first round matches taking place on 22 and 26 March 2016. Sint Maarten had been absent from senior CFU competition for nineteen years as they entered the tournament. In January 2016 it was announced that Sint Maarten's squad for 2017 Caribbean Cup qualification would be composed solely of players from Flames United SC, reigning champions from the 2014/2015 Senior league competitions and the champions of the 2012/2013 Excellence Division between the islands of Sint Maarten, Saint Martin and St. Barths. However, shortly thereafter it was reported that the previous report was inaccurate and that Flames United would actually be competing in the CFU Club Championship. Sint Maarten played its first senior men's international in 12 years on 13 March 2016 as it hosted a 2–0 home victory against Anguilla as part of each side's preparation for 2017 Caribbean Cup qualification. Both of Sint Maarten's goals were scored by Joost Röben. In the first match of the tournament, Sint Maarten held Grenada to a scoreless draw in the first half which saw two of Sint Maarten's starters sustain injuries. It was later revealed that Raymond Wolff had sustained a broken rib before coming off in the first half while fellow-Dutchman Rick De Punder was credited with an own goal. Grenada scored five goals in the second half to secure the 5–0 victory. Sint Maarten arrived on Grenada for the 8pm match at 4pm after the funds for the team airfare, paid for by the CFU, did not reach the airline in time and no seats were available. SMSA President Johnny Singh thought that the team would not be able to compete but another flight was arranged in time. The same scenario occurred for the return flight but the team was expected to be home on the Thursday prior to the team's match against USVI on Saturday. Sint Maarten went on to lose the match to USVI 1–2, ending the team's qualifying campaign. Sint Maarten's only goal was scored by Ramsleii Boelijn.

Stadium
Sint Maarten plays its home matches at the Raoul Illidge Sports Complex in Philipsburg. The stadium has a capacity of 3,000 spectators. It is named after Raoul Illidge, a local philanthropist who laid the groundwork and covered many expenses in the planning of the stadium as part of his support for sport and culture on the island. Unsolicited, he contributed nearly ƒ800,000 for the project. After falling into disrepair, the complex was temporarily closed for renovation in July 2013. The two-part renovation included installation of a new running track, drainage system, and artificial turf, repainting of lighting poles and installation of new, brighter lights, in addition to a renovation of the complex's buildings. The renovation costs were financed by the Dutch funding agency Usona and the Sint Maarten government. The international sports park was official reopened with a ribbon cutting ceremony by Prime Minister Sarah Wescot-Williams and Minister of Education, Culture, Youth and Sports Affairs Patricia Lourens-Phillip on 7 March 2014.

Results and fixtures
The following is a list of match results in the last 12 months, as well as any future matches that have been scheduled.

Coaching history

 * Ronny Wadilie (2016–18)
 * 🇦🇼 Elvis Albertus (2018–)
 * 🇳🇱 Piet De Jong

Current squad
The following players were called up for 2023 CONCACAF Gold Cup qualification.

Caps and goals as of 28 March 2023 after the game against the US Virgin Islands.

Recent call-ups
The following players have also been called up to the Sint Maarten squad within the last twelve months.

 * Notes
 * INJ = Withdrew due to injury
 * PRE = Preliminary squad / standby
 * RET = Retired from the national team
 * WD = Player withdrew from the squad due to non-injury issue.

Records

 * Players in bold are still active with Sint Maarten.

Caribbean Cup

 * *Draws include knockout matches decided via penalty shoot-out.

title: Sint Maarten national football team


text:
Wikipedia:WikiProject Wiki Syntax/HTML-table-attributes-000.txt

How does this work?
 * 1) Randomly select some links from the list below.
 * 2) Update those articles: These articles contain HTML table attributes that look invalid (a version without the illegal attributes is shown for each, although in some cases these attributes could stay in after a typo has been fixed). I.e. The second line is not a fixed version but a version with all illegal html removed - in some cases it should stay after typos have been fixed.
 * 3) With each update, if you want, set the edit description to "Please help out by clicking here to fix someone else's Wiki syntax."  (This is to encourage more malformed syntax to be fixed.)
 * 4) Then delete those articles from this list (so that we know that they're done).

Note: If you run into a tricky one, and want the official guidelines, and don't mind reading technical documents, then here is the W3C spec on HTML tables.

All done. --David Iberri | Talk 07:14, Dec 5, 2004 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/


text:
Palm-wine music

Palm-wine music (known as maringa in Sierra Leone) is a West African musical genre. It evolved among the Kru people of Liberia and Sierra Leone, who used Portuguese guitars brought by sailors, combining local melodies and rhythms with Trinidadian calypso to create a "light, easy, lilting style". It would initially work its way inland where it would adopt a more traditional style than what was played in coastal areas.

It would eventually gain popularity after Sierra Leone musician Ebenezer Calendar recorded songs in the 1950s and 1960s and continues to hold a small amount of that popularity.

Etymology
Palm-wine music was named after a drink, palm wine, made from the naturally fermented sap of the oil palm, which was drunk at gatherings where early African guitarists played.

History
This music was created from a fusion of local and foreign sailors, dock workers, and local working-class people who would go to palm-wine bars to drink and listen to music. Portable instruments and local string and percussion merged to create this style. It was out of this genre that the traditional two-finger plucking of a guitar came when musicians played it similarly to how they played the local lute or harp. This style was typically played in a syncopated 4/4 metre.

1920s–1940s
In the 1920s, a Kru taught Ghanaian highlife guitarist Kwame Asare (or Jacob Sam). His Kumasi Trio made their first highlife recordings for Zonophone in London in 1928. As the music spread from the coast into the hinterland, the sound of the traditional Akan harp lute seperewa was infused and this evolved into the odonson or Akan blues and was called the "Native Blues". HMV Records and Parlophone Records distributed albums of the Akan blues in southern Ghana. This was in the 1930s and 1940s and featured artists like Jacob Sam, Kwesi Pepera, Appianing, Kwame, Mireku, Osei Bonsu, Kwesi Menu, Kamkan and Appiah Adjekum. At its peak of popularity in the 1930s, there would be about 200,000 Native Blues records sold per year before production was stopped due to World War II.

1950s–1960s
Palm-wine music was first popularized by Sierra Leone Creole musician Ebenezer Calendar & His Maringa Band, who recorded many popular songs in the 1950s and early 1960s. Soukous and highlife were influenced by palm-wine music. Though still somewhat popular, the genre is no longer as renowned as it once was. Other renowned palm-wine musicians include Koo Nimo (a.k.a. Daniel Amponsah), S. E. Rogie, Abdul Tee-Jay and Super Combo.

Agya Koo Nimo is another renowned Ghanaian singer who is popularly referred to as the "King of Palm-wine music". The "Grandfather of Highlife", as he's often called, uses his music to tell life stories which has greatly influenced the Ghanaian and other West African music scenes. He was awarded the lifetime achievers award at the University of Education Winneba in Ghana.

title: Palm-wine music


text: Category:Greek prefectural capitals

title: Category:Greek prefectural capitals


text:
Nokia 3210

The Nokia 3210 is a GSM cellular phone, announced by Nokia on 18 March 1999.

History
The 3210 was designed by Alastair Curtis in Nokia's Los Angeles Design Center. The development was led by Frank Nuovo, who had designed the sleek and curvy Nokia 8110 in 1996. The team wanted to create an "expressive" and personalisable handset beyond the usual business-oriented mobile phone market, inspired by the Casio G-Shock and Sony Walkman designs. The phone thus became highly influential.

Design
The Nokia 3210 has a total weight of 151 g. The handset measures 123.8 × 50.5 × 22.5 mm and features customisable fascias which clip on. It was thinner than previous Nokia models.

It was the first mass market phone with an internal antenna, after the feature had been introduced by Nokia on the luxury phone Nokia 8810 in 1998.

Three games came preinstalled: Snake, Memory (pairs-memory game) and Rotation. The addition of such games encouraged high sales within a youth market which was enlarging at a very fast rate. Some versions of the 3210 included the "hidden" games React and Logic. They were activated by special software using a data cable.

The 3210 was the first device that came preloaded with Nokia's Composer software, which allowed users to manually 'compose' monotone ringtones. It was possible to send the ringtones to another Nokia phone.

Picture messages sent via the SMS texting service were implemented in the handset, allowing users to send preinstalled pictures to one another. These included a "Happy Birthday" picture amongst others.

The handset was competitively priced and aimed specifically at teenagers and young professionals. This was at a time when few young people had access to a mobile phone, being generally identified with older professionals and business people.

The 3210 was originally designed with a vibrate alert function. Nokia decided not to implement this feature on some handsets within certain jurisdictions. A few months after its UK release, some mobile phone repair shops offered customers a handset upgrade to the vibrate function for a small fee.

Handset specifications

 * Standby time (h): 55–260
 * Talk time (min): 180–270
 * Charge time (h): 4
 * Ringtone composer
 * Dual band: Yes
 * Vibrating alert (optional)
 * Speed dialing
 * 3 games:Yes note some models to like 3310
 * Internal antenna
 * Green backlight
 * Interchangeable fascias

Reception
A combination of cutting-edge features such as internal antennas and T9 text entry ensured the 3210 huge commercial success. Much of the phone's success can also be attributed to an advertising campaign aimed predominantly at young people, a first in the mobile phone industry. The inclusion of 3 games, changeable "Xpress-on" covers (as on the previous Nokia 5110), an internal antenna, customisable ringtones and competitive prices led to the handset's huge popularity with those aged 15–25.

With 160 million units sold, the 3210 is one of the most popular and successful phones in history. It is considered one of the most significant handsets Nokia ever developed.

Revival
In 2024, HMD Global announced the revival version of Nokia 3210, with 4G, 2MP camera, IPS display, USB-C, running Series 30+ based on Mocor OS and featuring Cloud Phone technology support. Guardian journalist Zoe Wood documented her week with the new product during July 2024.

title: Nokia 3210


text:
Martin State Airport

Martin State Airport is a joint civil-military public use airport located nine nautical miles (10 mi, 17 km) east of the central business district of Baltimore, in Baltimore County, Maryland, United States. The facility is located within the census-designated place of Middle River on Maryland State Highway 150 (Eastern Boulevard), near the intersection of Maryland State Highway 700 (Martin Boulevard). The Maryland Aviation Administration operates the airport on behalf of the Maryland Department of Transportation. MTN is a general aviation relief airport.

History
This was the former plant airport for the Glenn L. Martin Company which produced a large number of military aircraft at this location between the 1920s and 1960s. The Glenn L. Martin Maryland Aviation Museum and old seaplane ramps are located at the southeast corner of the airport.

In 1937, Glen Martin proposed height restrictions around the airport because a new generation of large, heavy transports would be flying from its seaplane base. By 1945, Martin had built $5.5 million in structures on the field. The company attempted to sell the property to the City of Baltimore for $1 million, but the commissioner Robert O'Boneell said there was insufficient room for expansion. In 1974, Governor Marvin Mandel proposed to purchase the airport from Martin Marietta. The company formed a real-estate arm, Chesapeake Park Inc., with the former Baltimore County Council Chair Herry J. Bartenfelder to build residential and commercial real estate. Citizens of Essex opposed the use conversion, lending support to the State's purchase of the field for $9.4 million. In 1980, Port-A-Port T-Hangars were purchased for general aviation use and lease. In the 1990s the airport was targeted as part of the Middle River Employment Center district to have MD route 43 highway extended from I-95 direct to the terminal through a series of wetland parcels.

Military use
The Maryland Air National Guard's 175th Wing is a tenant activity at MTN with locally based A-10C aircraft. The Air National Guard facility is located on the northeast side of the field and is officially named Warfield Air National Guard Base.

Facilities and aircraft
Martin State Airport covers an area of 747 acre at an elevation of 21 feet (6 m) above mean sea level. It has one asphalt paved runway designated 15/33 which is 6,997 by 180 feet (2,132 x 55 m). It also had one helipad with a 65 by 65 ft (20 x 20 m) concrete surface.

For the 12-month period ending October 11, 2022, the airport had 87,130 aircraft operations, an average of 239 per day: 94% general aviation, 2% military, and 3% air taxi. At that time there were 241 aircraft based at this airport: 163 single-engine, 13 multi-engine, 19 jet, 21 helicopter, 1 glider, and 24 military.

Operations
Martin State Airport serves a wide variety of general aviation and commercial operators. Martin State is home base to many helicopter operations including local news helicopters WJZ Channel 13 and WBAL Channel 11; Medevac services Express Care 1 and Helicopter Transport Services; and the aviation units for the Maryland State Police, Baltimore County Police, and the Baltimore City Police. It is also the home base for Grandview Aviation; a private jet charter company with services and bases all over North America.

There is a wide variety of flight training activities at the airport's three flight schools: Middle River Aviation, First Class Flight Academy, and Brett Aviation.

title: Martin State Airport


text:
User:Tusixoh

Urlár Damhsa an Diabhal

--260 22:00, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)

title: User:Tusixoh


text:
Talk:Drug abuse

getting high redirects to this page
getting high does not equate to drug abuse as far as i know. just thought someone mgiht wanna change that. idk how. thanks.

Getting high now redirects to Drug use Maybe it should be to Recreational drug use Laurel Bush (talk) 12:09, 21 February 2009 (UTC)

"possible physical, social, and psychological harm"
in the intro there is the phrase "Use of these drugs may lead to criminal penalty in addition to possible physical, social, and psychological harm, both strongly depending on local jurisdiction"

now "physical, social, and psychological" are 3 things,  you can't say "both strongly" right after that !?! which two of the three depend on local jusrisdiction ? obviously only "social, and psychological", this phrase should be fixed 72.0.197.209 (talk) 02:08, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Common Knowledge
This portion seems to be heavily POV, lacking in citations, and the sytnax used is very conversational. Heavy revisions should be considered. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Plumlogan (talk • WEED IS GOODcontribs) 17:14, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

Both strongly depending on...
"Use of these drugs may lead to criminal penalty in addition to possible physical, social, and psychological harm, both strongly depending on local jurisdiction."

English isn't my first language so I might just be reading wrong here, but how exactly does the possible physical, social and psychological harm strongly depend on the local jurisdiction?

 * You read it right. I guess what he meant is that the downsides depend on whether you're hanging out with a bunch of stoners or not. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Special:Contributions/ (talk)

Major Edit on Druggies
Okay, everyone seems to be complaining a lot about the "Druggies" article. I figured "screw it all, I am writing this my way". Does they defy typical Wikipedian behaviour? Perhaps...Do I care? No, I don't. I wrote it all from research gathered from various high schools and teen areas. Feel free to change it. Keep in mind that the previous article that stood that was vastly unfair and biased. This page is linked to the teenage sub-culture of druggies, from the high school subcultures page. That is what this page should be about. I have NEVER run across a druggie with long hair who is incredibly slow. Instead of talking about how to change it, just do it, for God's sake! By the way, I assume you all know that I am opposed to merging it (considering I took the merge tag off the Druggies page.--Rgenung 16:17 EST, 15 November 2005

changes
Included a definition as used by NIDA at one of their websites.

emphasised the sociological nature of the term "drug abuse" to distinguish it from the more medical "substance abuse"

My hope is that this definition is fairly neutral.

Some copy editing and correction of factual errors.

Placed sociology of drug abuse at beging of article rather than end in accordance with emphasis on "drug abuse" as a sociological term. Also, I believe flow of article is improved if scope of problem is introduced before solutions.

There were too many notes. I cut several of them which related to common knowledge, kept a few that related to specific facts.

Both this article and substance abuse could use a lot of work. Perhaps a request for peer review? Osmodiar 07:47, 13 May 2005 (UTC)
 * NIDA is not a neutral source, and as such has been explicitly avoided by all parties. The definition of drug abuse has many contexts, and this article is addressing the medical definition, as displayed in the outline, however the sociological and legal definitions need to be expanded.  This article has already been mistakenly placed on peer review by Guttlekraw and promptly removed.  Peer review is not for content disputes, but for improving articles that are approaching the status of a featured article. --Viriditas  | Talk 02:07, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Do you have any support for this claim regarding NIDA? Perhaps you are confusing them with ONDCP. -- Osmodiar 03:36, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * There are many problems with NIDA, a few of which are discussed on that page. Most notably, the retracted NIDA-funded, Ricaurte-McCann Ecstasy study  and UCSF AIDS researcher Donald Abrams' previous difficulty in getting NIDA support for a proposed study on marijuana smoking by patients with HIV-related wasting syndrome  have illustrated some of the issues with NIDA. Thoric and I have made mention of some of these problems,     and we are in agreement that NIDA is politically biased.  Some critics claim that NIDA only supports research that promotes the administration's point of view, fails to fund projects that could undermine or disprove its research, opposed medical marijuana research, and used images drawn from advanced medical technology to create misleading anti-drug campaigns.  Peter Cohen, a professor at the Centre for Drug Research at the University of Amsterdam has also pointed out problems with NIDA, as has UCLA public policy professor Mark Kleiman and City University of New York pharmacologist John Morgan, both of whom describe the previous NIDA director (Alan Leshner) as the "propaganda minister in the war on drugs".   Kleiman also described NIDA's educational campaign as "astonishingly dishonest".  Sociologist Craig Reinarmanm, who studies drug policy at UCSC claims that NIDA's agenda has been profoundly shaped by a drug-war ethos. Charles Grob, who studies hallucinogens at UCLA describes  NIDA as "science in the service of politics".  Alan Marlatt, a psychologist at the University of Washington, who formerly served on NIDA's National Advisory Council on Drug Abuse, states, "I got the message that it will fund things showing harm, but when it comes to benefits there's no chance."   William Miller, who studies addictive behaviours at the University of New Mexico claims that in order to gain funding, one must emphasize the damaging effects of drugs.  At a NIDA presentation in 2003, brain scan expert Stephen Kish observed that NIDA repeatedly overstated the certainty of their data, and that NIDA had been misleading the public and Congress in regards to the issue of ecstasy-related brain damage.  In regards to NIDA's position on LSD, critic Neal M. Goldsmith states: "Overall, the data sets upon which the government's "war on drugs" is built come off here as woefully inadequate - subject to political agendas and thus miscontructed and misdirected from the start."   Nick Sandberg claims that pharmaceutical industry influence led NIDA to halt studies on ibogaine, a drug that has the potential to treat addiction, but I have not been able to verify Sandberg's claim.  Most damaging of all, a July 2004 Scientific Integrity in Policymaking report issued by the Union of Concerned Scientists documented alleged incidents of political litmus tests for NIDA appointees.  While being considered for a position on NIDA's advisory council, Dr. Claire Sterk was questioned by a White House staffer about whether she supported "faith-based" drug treatment program, or voted for President Bush.  In 2002, Dr. William R. Miller of the University of New Mexico, professor of psychology and psychiatry, and pioneer of a leading substance abuse treatment, was questioned by a NIDA advisory panel about whether his views were congruent with those held by President Bush and whether he had voted for Bush in 2000.   Rather than focusing on Miller's scientific qualifications, a White House liaison to the Department of Health and Human Services grilled Miller about his views on abortion, capital punishment, and other topics.   --Viriditas  | Talk 12:47, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Well, that is nice that you and Thoric feel the NIDA is politicaly motivated, but you still have not provided any evidence of this. The statement at  and  which reads: "Also note that NIDA does not list alcohol as a substance of abuse" is patently false.  NIDA most certainly does list alcohol as a drug of abuse, as well as nictotine, androgens, and all the usual suspects.  Your other links all seem to point out the faulty 2002 Ricaurte MDMA study.  You seem to be basing your view of NIDA based on the mistake of one resercher who received NIDA funding.  Your threshold for evidence when it supports your viewpoint seems rather low. I assume you do not have much of a science background. -- Osmodiar 08:04, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * (Note: Osmodiar's reply was made in response to a different version of my commments found here: Due to an edit conflict, my updated changes were saved after his response.) I have posted more than one example, and my science background as well as my viewpoint is irrelevant.  Please stick to the discussion at hand.  --Viriditas  | Talk 08:20, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

 * You also just did extensive editing of your comment above what I wrote after I replied. The point remains: your view of the NIDA as biased is not well supported.  I am also curious why you consider Mosby's to be the authoratative definition of the term?  It seems a rather arbitrary choice. -- Osmodiar 08:45, 16 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Due to an edit conflict resulting from your reply, I was unable to save my comments in time (For accuracy, I have now noted the original revision you were replying to below your comments. Feel free to change your comments if necessary). The extensive editing was actually made before you replied, but saved after your comments.  Again, this is not about my "view".  I have never said that I consider Mosby's as an authoritative source, but it does describe the literal, neutral definiton of drug abuse.  NIDA's definiton seems to vary greatly, often times as a substitute for substance abuse.  Perhaps you could post a link to the definition you offered? Ok, just saw the link to your definition, above.  We certainly should include multiple definitions if possible, but NIDA's definition seems to change depending on which page you view.  The definition, "the use of illegal drugs or the inappropriate use of legal drugs...the repeated use of drugs to produce pleasure, to alleviate stress, or to alter or avoid reality (or all three)" differs from the definiton offered here, which is basically the definition of substance abuse, and the definition offered here, where in relation to the Drug Abuse Screening Test (DAST-10), NIDA defines drug abuse as: 1. the use of prescribed or over-the-counter drugs in excess of the directions, and 2. any nonmedical use of drugs (It should be noted that the assessment in question explicitly excludes alcoholic beverages).  The latter definition is synonymous with Mosby's and Medline, both of which I have previously referenced. --Viriditas  | Talk 10:10, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Please stop reverting without reading or caring what anyone else writes Veriditas. There are many different definitions based on differentlegal and medical authorities. Everyone except you seems to recognise this. Stop it, you are not funny, and not being constructive. If you have some real reason why you only want one definition listed, please give it, otherwise, stop pushing your own POV at the expense of the rest of the world. Guttlekraw 13:41, 23 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Again, I'm going to ask you to stop trolling. I am the one who asked for multiple defintions to be included (Talk:Drug_abuse) and you are the one who continues to revert without consulting the talk page.  Accusing me of your own actions is trollish. --Viriditas  | Talk 14:54, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * NIDA keeps a clear focus specifically on drugs of abuse, and while they may list alcohol in a couple places, it is markedly absent from most of their documents, Science-Based Facts on Drug Abuse and Addiction for example, as well as this chart Drugs of Abuse (the chart, not the right sidebar). --Thoric 14:13, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

Footnote removal
I've added the footnotes back in. Osmodiar, you might be interested in Template talk:Inote. --Viriditas | Talk 10:44, 16 May 2005 (UTC)

Veriditas, missing the point as ususal
Veriditas, your comment in the edit history that Mosby's is published by a global company is, as usual, completely irrelevant. The point, again, is that in the US drug abuse is typically defined by reference whether the drug is legal or medically indicated, whereas in Europe, typically, it is defined as use of a drug in such a way that the user cannot function normally. These are important differences, and you completely fail to address this, instead wanting to present the notion that there is only one definition, that everyone agrees to. Guttlekraw 14:35, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm going to once again ask you to stop trolling. My comment was in direct response to your contention that Mosby was a US based definition.  What you seem to be having trouble understanding is that the Mosby definition is a neutral medical defintion that is not controversial, whereas NIDA is controversial.  This has been covered in talk, and again, you keep ignoring issues that have already been covered by bringing them up again and again.  Your allegations are false as usual, as my outline specifically calls for multiple definitions where they are appropriate.  The medical definition of drug abuse, as offered by Mosby is the primary, neutral definition. --Viriditas  | Talk 14:45, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I see citations for the version Viriditas is using; I see no citation for the claim that "in Europe, typically, it is defined as use of a drug in such a way that the user cannot function normally". I'm going to return this article to the properly cited version until some authoritative citations can be found which indicate that the definition is significantly different in Europe. Jayjg (talk)  18:44, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

I can cite that, for sure, it's very easy. It was cited in the past, and Veriditas removed them. Is the citation the issue though? There are tonnes of cited definitions of drug abuse - the problem is that V wants only one to appear. Guttlekraw 09:00, 25 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Citation is indeed the issue, and is why your other paragraph was removed as "original research". An insistence on citations tends to stop people from inserting their own opinions. Jayjg (talk)  14:49, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Calm down
Can both of you please chill out and discuss this on the talk page? Veriditas, I don't have an axe to grind here, but it does seem that there are more than more nuance to this - could there be a compromise in here somewhere? There's nothing sacred about Mosby, it's just a US medical text. Take her easy, Intrigue 15:05, 24 May 2005 (UTC)

Nursing diagnoses
Can we please change this ghastly neologism to symptoms? JFW | T@lk  01:12, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

 * The term crept back in. "Nursing diagnosis" is a not a concept used by the medical community outside of the nursing profession. Probobly not appropriate for a general article. Osmodiar 12:29, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Nursing diagnosis classification is not a new phenomenon. The work begun at the First National Conference on the Classification of Nursing Diagnosis, held in St. Louis, Missouri, in 1973, eventually led to the founding of the organization now called NANDA International [formerly, the North American Nursing Diagnosis Association] NANDA's Classification of Nursing Diagnoses was the first nursing terminology recognized by the American Nurses Association (ANA) and the first included in the Unified Medical Language System (UMLS). NANDA defines nursing diagnosis as a "clinical judgment about individual, family or community responses to actual or potential health problems/life processes". The term "nursing diagnosis" is included in the regulatory or statutory language of the Nurse Practice Act in forty-one of the fifty States and the District of Columbia and in the 2002 Model Nurse Practice Act of the National Council of State Boards of Nursing. The establishment of a nursing diagnosis constitutes one of the standards of nursing practice as enunciated by the ANA and has been a part of the ANA's definition of nursing since 1982...medical diagnosis refers to a disease; a nursing diagnosis refers to a human response to an actual or potential health problem or life processes. Although nursing diagnoses are complementary to medical diagnoses, nursing diagnoses are not dependent upon medical diagnoses... --Viriditas  | Talk 21:19, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Viriditas asked me to take a look at this article (particularly wrt nursing diagnoses), I've decided not to edit the article since it's a fairly charged issue so I'll just offer my opinion here and anyone who wants to incorporate that into the article can do so. Nursing diagnoses are the only thing in the section titled "signs and symptoms", but nursing diagnoses aren't really the same thing as signs and symptoms. If there is a section in the article for "nursing care for drug abuse" as a second level heading like "medical treatment" under "Approaches to managing drug abuse" then that would be an appropriate place for them. However; the whole nursing section should not be too much larger than the "medical" or "therapy" sections. If you were to just include a few diagnoses as an example, I would suggest that anxiety (item 1), noncompliance (item 9), and disturbed thought processes (item 4) are probably the most relevant. If there's not a subsection on nursing care, then I don't see that the nursing diagnoses are all that relevant and could be removed. Matt 02:07, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

 * Right. My point is that "nursing diagnosis" is a concept used only by nurses. If this was a nursing article, then it would be appropriate. On the other hand, "signs" and "symptoms" are concepts well understood by all healthcare providers, includeing nurses.  Also, "nursing diagnosis" is an amalgamation of medical and social issues. Its inclusion here can only serve to confuse.  And finaly, the section does not fit in the suggested outline. Osmodiar 03:16, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

Let's try one more time
OK, I kept the Moby definition, added the NIDA one, and added a note about historical definitions. Let me know what you think, and please, can we talk about this, instead of revert warring? Guttlekraw 09:16, 25 May 2005 (UTC)

Please stop your biggotted reverting
Ver. Please stop. Your rampant POV pushing is beyond what I can tollerate. Removing a statement that is a fact from another article, that I don't think you disagree with, and which is relevant, without discussion, is vandalism. Please stop it. Guttlekraw3 06:07, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Is this "statement that is a fact from another article" cited there? Wikipedia cannot use one Wikipedia article as a citation for another in this way, we need to have the original primary sources. Jayjg (talk)  14:51, 26 May 2005 (UTC)

Do you disagree that opium use was not considered drug abuse in the 18th century? You don't really think that every uncontested fact in every article needs to be directly sourced, that would be ridiculous. The opium article gives a detailed history of the drug, and references it. It is simply a bad faith attempt to remove things that don't fit your POV to remove this. Guttlekraw3 10:55, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

 * This does look bizarre Jayjg - it is not original research, it is well documented. Intrigue 05:23, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * The statement in question does not concern drug abuse but drug prohibition, and Guttlekraw's content lacked verifiability and amounted to original research. As such, it has not been included in the article.  --Viriditas  | Talk 05:51, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm more and more convinced that you are a lunatic. Are you really saying that there is no relationship between societal views of what drug abuse is and the laws they enact to govern drug use? Guttlekraw3 06:59, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * You've been repeatedly asked to stop engaging in personal attacks, and that is official policy. You've also been reminded that original research is not permitted. --Viriditas  | Talk 07:29, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

At last, some sense
Well done, you have finally done some research and recognized that the word has many definitions - this version is a lot better than the previous ones. Guttlekraw3 11:59, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * My proposed outline, dated Apr 21, 2005 (almost a month ago) specifically requested multiple definitions, which implicitly require citations - citations you refused to provide. The version you are looking at was scheduled for April 22, not May 26, but instead you spent the last month waging a revert war instead of helping contribute to a fair and balanced article that can be independently verified. --Viriditas  | Talk 12:51, 26 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Then why did you keep reverting my suggestions? No, don't even let's go there. I'm happy that we agree to this step forward. Let's put the past ridiculousness behind us and work on improving the article. Guttlekraw3 10:56, 27 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I've explained this many times. Suggestions are for talk pages, not for articles.  Unsubstantiated article additions cannot be verified, and without citing sources for such content, your changes may be removed. --Viriditas  | Talk 22:33, 27 May 2005 (UTC)

As I said to Jayjg above V, you should not go around removing establish uncontentious facts because they are not cited. It's rude and unnecessary. Intrigue 05:24, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I'm sorry, but you're mistaken. The content in question was neither established nor uncontentious and even if it was undisputed, Cite_sources is clear. See also Check_your_facts and the process involving the removal of content in the section, "Checking verifiability" on Verifiability.  Guttlekraw had been asked to cite sources for a month, and refused to do so.  Wikipedia does not permit original research. --Viriditas  | Talk 05:47, 30 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Are you saying that the fact that opium was legal in the US until the Harrison Narcotics Tax Act in 1914 is disputed, or not verifiable? Guttlekraw3 06:52, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Drug prohibition and drug abuse are two different topics, and this has been explained to you many times. --Viriditas | Talk 06:58, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Yes, they are different, but closely related. What societies choose to prohibit is a reflection of what they consider to be abuse. Guttlekraw3 07:00, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * In any case, that is your opinion and Wikipedia is not a place for original research. --Viriditas | Talk 07:03, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * No, it's not just my opinion. You cannot simply choose what to include or not based on your own predudices. If I went through this article and took out every unreferenced statement there would be nothing left. Do you want me to do that? Guttlekraw3 07:07, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Putting your childish threats aside, I have spent more than the last month referencing every statement in the article, so I can't see what you would remove, and if you did, you wouldn't be following the policies I've linked below. We've had this discussion many, many times, so I can only assume that you are trolling again or that you are having problems understanding official policy.  Please review Cite sources, Verifiability, and No original research.  Take some time to understand them. --Viriditas  | Talk 07:27, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Once again, you dodge the point, refuse to answer questions and hide behind bluster about policy and personal attacks. Grow up. Guttlekraw3 07:32, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I haven't dodged anything. Wikipedia is not a place for original research.  I suggest you spend your time wisely, studying policy and contributing to articles in an appropriate fashion. --Viriditas  | Talk 07:44, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Once again, you dodge the point, refuse to answer questions and hide behind bluster about policy. Grow up. Guttlekraw3 07:45, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Looking up this thread, the point seems to be made. Unless you are able to cite sources for your personal, pet theories, there is nothing to discuss as Wikipedia does not host original research. Please take the time to study official policy at the links I've provided above and use this discussion page for improving the article.  Please keep all personal attacks off this page.  Thank you. --Viriditas  | Talk 08:16, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Looking up this thread, the point seems to be made. Unless you are able to cite sources for your personal, pet theories, there is nothing to discuss as Wikipedia does not host original research. Please take the time to study official policy at the links I've provided above and use this discussion page for improving the article.  Please keep all personal attacks off this page.  Thank you. --Viriditas  | Talk 08:16, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Once again, you dodge the point, refuse to answer questions and hide behind bluster about policy. Grow up. Guttlekraw3 08:50, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Question re edit summary
Viriditas wrote "Reverted edits by Guttlekraw3 to last version by Viriditas. You've been repeatedly asked for more than a month not to alter cited source content. Your other changes are not supported."
 * Don't worry - no cited content was altered. Which 'other changes are not supported'? Not supported by what? Try to focus on content. Thanks. Guttlekraw 12:29, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I agree that there was no need for V. to revert most of your changes. In particular, the changes to the introduction and harm reduction sections did not substantialy change the meaning of the article.  However, a couple of your changes seemed problematic.  The article is about drug abuse.  In this context it is appropriate to use the specific term "drug abuse" rather than the more general terms you replaced it with in a couple of locations.  --  Osmodiar 13:34, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I disagree. Guttlekraw/Guttlekraw3/Intrigue/All your basses are belong to us/etc (all the same user waging edit wars, personal attacks, and sock puppetry on multiple articles at this time) is not editing in good faith.  He redesigned the introduction to allow for his term "use" in place of abuse, but Wikipedia is not a usage guide.  He also deleted the reference to the definition being used in the past by WHO, which is explained at the link provided.  Lastly, he replaced the word "drug abuse" with "drug use" (something he has been doing for two months on multiple articles) with a misleading edit summary of " no cited content was altered" when in fact, he changed fn2, the cited Mosby definition, from "drug abuse" to "any drug use" when the cited definition doesn't say that; he changed fn4, from a letter published in the Canadian Medical Association Journal, to read "illegal use of drugs" instead of "drug abuse" as the article states; he changed fn6 to read "drugs" instead of "drug abuse" as cited in Mental Health Practice.  And he changed the meaning of fn7. This has been going on for two months, and is making it very difficult to work on the article.  I collaborate on many articles, and I've never experienced anyone inserting their POV like this before. --Viriditas  | Talk 02:42, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I think you're talking about chaning 'drug abuse can harm etc' to 'any drug use etc'. I think it's important to show that drugs can be harmful, regardless of whether the use is called abuse - can you suggest a better way to rephrase that, keeping it more on-topic? Guttlekraw 13:44, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * Please do not change cited sources because you think it's important to promote your pet theories. If you have cites, great, let us use them, but until then, please refrain from changing the meaning of cited sources. --Viriditas  | Talk 02:47, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Looking at this more closely, the problem is that the article strays quite a long way away from 'drug abuse' as it defines it, and talks about the US govt's war on drugs, the cost to society of drugs (no figures on hospital usage etc disagregate 'drug use' from 'drug abuse' etc etc). I think the broader term is better, or leave it out and put it in an article about drug use in general. Guttlekraw 13:48, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

 * A big problem is that no one really agrees on the definition of "drug abuse" and that problem is not limited to wikipedia. In fact, it is even mentioned in one of this articles references.   The definition found at that link actually does a reasonable job of outlining some of the problems with the term.  This article does seem to lack focus. -- Osmodiar 14:36, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * The article gives a wide enough definition that it does not stray away from it. As for "drug use", what do you mean?  Use of illegal drugs?  Abuse of legal drugs? Legal use of legal drugs?  That's an immense topic. Jayjg (talk)  14:43, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Exactly, we should be careful of statements like 'negative health effects of drug abuse' when in fact, all drug use carries the risk of negative health effects. We should not use the narrower term when we mean the broader, or vice versa. Guttlekraw 15:05, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Jayjg's revert
User:Jaygj replaced my "Beyond the sociological issues, almost any drug use can lead to either addiction, chemical dependency, or adverse health effects, such as lung cancer or emphysema from cigarette smoking.	" with:

"Beyond the sociological issues, abuse of almost any drug can lead to either addiction, chemical dependency, or adverse health effects, such as lung cancer or emphysema from cigarette smoking."

This version seems to imply that it is only 'abuse' that can lead to adiction or adverse health effects. That is plainly not true. Medical use of strong pain killers have the same risk. Is there any sense in which this version is better? Guttlekraw 15:14, 31 May 2005 (UTC)
 * I've restored the appropriate term, "drugs of abuse", which you removed. --Viriditas |

Well done! You have collaboratively reached a factually correct version - doesn't that feel better than reverting? Guttlekraw 05:38, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Harm reduction

 * 1) (cur) (last) 14:20, 31 May 2005 Jayjg (actually, the focus is on drug abuse; they (harm reduction workers Guttlekraw) aren't worried about the societal cost of diabetics taking insulin. Also, drug use generally does not lead to addiction, only abuse.)
 * 2) Talk 02:49, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)(→Harm reduction - no, they focus on drug abuse, as defined by this article.)

 * Harm reduction focuses on reducing the harm of drug use, in general, it is often applied to drug abuse, because drug abuse is a substantial part of drug use, but the methodology is indiscriminate. For example, it is applied in the medical application of drugs, and to non-abusive use of legal drugs. Harm reduction is absolutely applied to the use of insulin, and to alcohol, cigarettes and over-the-counter painkillers. Guttlekraw 05:38, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * As this article is about "drug abuse" shouldn't the discussion of harm reduction here be limited in scope to its application to drug abuse. All the rest seems appropriate for the main harm reduction article. -- Osmodiar 05:48, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, that would be like having a discussion of car braking systems as they apply to freeway driving. Obviously you could, but it would be kind of hard. Car brakes are designed to reduce the speed of the vehicle in any environment, including freeways. In the same way, harm reduction methodologies apply to any drug use. Of course, discussion of them here should focus on their application to drug abuse, but to claim that harm reduction is a methodology designed to reduce the harm of drug abuse is like saying car brakes are designed to reduce the speed of cars on freeways. It's true in some pretty narrow sense, but misleading as well. I don't see why it is controversial to mention that harm reduction is a methodology that applies to all drug use, and is applied in reducing the harm of drug abuse. Guttlekraw 06:42, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Viriditas, how about discussing your POV on the talk page, instead of continually reverting anyone who you disagree with?
I am talking about the opening paragraph, your stealth reverting is not helpful. Guttlekraw 09:41, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * That wasn't a revert but a rewrite with the addition of content that you deleted in an actual revert. This page is not about substance abuse. --Viriditas  | Talk 11:14, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Subheadings on the definition
I have split out the definitions, to try to get some clarity on the usage - I hope that you will take a considered look at this, I think it is a substantial improvement. Guttlekraw 10:09, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * This seems like a good approach, however:
 * An introductory sentence explaing the rational for the three subsections would be usefull.
 * Although the NIDA definition does touch on legal aspect, readers may get the impression that NIDA is primarily concerned with legal aspects, when it is, at least theoretically, primarily concerned with medical and scientific aspects.
 * Even though there is a link to the WHO definition, some of the wording seems to be lifted intact from that page, which may be problematic.
 * Can you take a look at this, or point out the specifics, and I'll change it? Guttlekraw 11:33, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * --Osmodiar 11:07, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I agree. Guttlekraw 11:28, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Why is this page now about substance abuse? Further, you have mixed and matched many unrelated concepts, giving false impressions in many cases. --Viriditas | Talk 11:12, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Well, in most medical references, the category 'substance abuse' is where 'drug abuse' is talked about. In DSM for instance, substance abuse means alcohol or drug abuse. The concept is a step removed, and they do not distinguish between the two. Perhaps the two pages need to be integrated? The problem is that the current Substance abuse page talks only about the current definition, whereas they have been historically intermixed and overlapping. Guttlekraw 11:28, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * "Most medical references" say no such thing. As I originally suspected, you intentionally confused the topic by adding information about substance abuse in order to promote a redirect -- a discussion that was covered almost two months ago on this discussion page. It now makes perfect sense why you have spent the last two months engaging in revert wars instead of expanding this article.  I've heard about editing in bad faith, but this takes the cake.  I'm going to revert your changes, move the appropriate content to substance abuse if need be, and continue to develop this article. --Viriditas  | Talk 11:36, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Viriditas, I do hope that you can rise above this, I am trying to engage constructively on this, I wish that you would not start a revert war over it. Guttlekraw 11:38, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Considering the fact that the edit history shows that you reverted my latest editions to the article, I find your crocodile tears less than convincing. This article is not about substance abuse. --Viriditas  | Talk 11:42, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I didn't realise I had reverted your changes, I like your adition to the first paragraph. I am afraid that I think that substance abuse and drug abuse are very closely related topics, indeed it is hard to find any medical, legal or other authority that does not use them in very closely related ways. I agree, the two terms are distinct, but there is going to be substantial over lap in any article about either one. The history of the term drug abuse has it coming under different headings according to different people - currently it rests under 'substance abuse', but that has not always been true. Guttlekraw 11:49, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * Drug abuse is a general term, while substance abuse is a specific term. Again, what you claim is not the case, as I'm looking at many different sources that use the terms differently.  In addition to the great many unsubstantiated statements you have added to the article (which you are currently using as a sandbox) you have written: "The 1969 edition of the World Health Organization's ICD manual defined drug abuse as "persistent or sporadic excessive drug use inconsistent with or unrelated to acceptable medical practice", modern editions have not used the term (partly because of it's ambiguity 2, preffering to reffer to the cluster of symptoms previously called 'drug abuse' as 'substance abuse'."  The ref you provided does not state that what you claim. You have also changed the Mosby cite (which is now ref-less) to reflect your own POV.  Please consult the NPOV policy. --Viriditas  | Talk 13:01, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Can you unpack that rant? The refs I provided are correct. Guttlekraw 13:03, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * This is the second time you have claimed to provide refs that I provided. I provided the refs, and you distorted them by claiming they said things that they don't. --13:12, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Sorry - you are simply wrong. The WHO lexicon says ""Because of its ambiguity, the term is not used in ICD-I0 (except in the case of non-dependence-producing substances- see below);" it is reffering to "abuse (drug, alcohol, chemical, substance, or psychoactive substance)". Guttlekraw 13:16, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Reverts
Guttlekraw3, you have violted the 3RR more than three times in the last 24 hours in the form of simple and complex reverts, especially with your recent replacement of the substance abuse information that I moved to substance abuse. --Viriditas | Talk 13:07, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * What?! I have not reverted anything! I am currently working on some major revisions of the article. I suggest we discuss issues on the talk page - there has been no reversion at all! Guttlekraw 13:09, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Your Jerome H. Jaffe stuff
This is interesting, in the context of policy, but, although the guy is an MD, he made this statement in his capacity as Drug Policy Director in the Nixon Administration. It has never been used as a medical or diagnostic definition, often as a political one. Guttlekraw 13:21, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

''In 1975, psychiatrist Jerome H. Jaffe defined drug abuse as "the use, usually by self-administration, of any drug in a manner that deviates from the approved medical or social patterns within a given culture". According to Jaffe, the term "conveys the notion of social disapproval, and it is not necessarily descriptive of any particular pattern of drug use or its potential adverse consequences" -- so is this the origin of using the term abuse'' to refer to an activity which has social disapproval? Should picking your nose be called "nose abuse"? I can just imagine the propaganda now depicting people picking holes in their noses ;) --Thoric 14:44, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)

3RR violations by Guttlekraw3
There are more than this, but these are the ones I could salvage, with complex reverts interspersed with full reverts. In all five instances, Guttlekraw reverted content to previous versions, in some cases sneaking them in after other edits.

Lack of Chemical Structures in Media
Whether the subject in the news is legal or illegal drugs or even a chemical spill, the media never, ever shows the chemical structure of the subject. This is censorship and it has keeps the public uninformed. A major marketing component of drugs (legal or illegal) is the mystery surrounding them. If the public could look at a structure each time it was brought up in the news correlations would be made, and the public would start to say, "oh yeah, that looks like such in such, so I am not surprised that this drug acts this way".

Just try to get a TV station or newspaper to include the structures, you will hit a brick wall.

When the FDA dropped the requirement of showing structures in medical journal ads, all the drug companies dropped including the structure for their new drugs.

They do not want comparisons, they know it hurts sales. It would be the same with illegal drugs.

71.114.163.55 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.114.163.55 (talk) 02:44, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

--Viriditas | Talk 13:48, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * 1) 13:19, 1 Jun 2005
 * 2) 13:07, 1 Jun 2005
 * 3) 12:32, 1 Jun 2005
 * 4) 10:00, 1 Jun 2005
 * 5) 12:27, 31 May 2005
 * Please focus, these are not reverts, they are edits, some of them after you have also edited. Please try to stick to the facts. Instead of playing games and claiming I am reverting, tell me WHAT it is you disagree with. In most cases, when we look at the evidence, you're simply wrong. Guttlekraw 13:53, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 * You reverted my changes at least five separate times, by re-adding material that had been removed. That's a violation of the 3RR. It doesn't matter that you tried to game the system with complex reverts by including reverts inside of edits.   --Viriditas  | Talk 14:00, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Look, your definition of 'revert' seems to be 'change anything about the version Viriditas preffers'. Sorry, but editing means making changes, especially if you are trying to introduce factual errors. Guttlekraw 04:15, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * If anyone feels there has been a violation of the 3RR go to Administrators' noticeboard/3RR and let an admin settle the issue. Dan100 18:48, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

Medical definitions
The 1969 edition of the World Health Organization's ICD manual defined drug abuse as "persistent or sporadic excessive drug use inconsistent with or unrelated to acceptable medical practice", modern editions have not used the term (at least in the case of ICD, because of it's ambiguity ), preffering to reffer to the cluster of symptoms previously called 'drug abuse' as 'substance abuse'.

In the early 1950s, the first edition of the American Psychiatric Association's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders reffered to both alcohol and drug abuse as part of Sociopathic Personality Disturbances, which were through to be symptoms of deeper psychological disorders or moral weakness. By the third edition, in the 1980s, drug abuse was grouped as part of 'substance abuse'

Although the two most used diagnostic tools in the world (the DSM and the ICD) no longer recognise 'drug abuse' as a current medical diagnosis, the Handbook on Drug and Alcohol Abuse, defines drug abuse as "nonmedical use of drugs, both drugs that have and those that do not have generally accepted medical value".

Because of ambiguity in the meanings, the World Health Organization presently prefers to use the terms harmful use and hazardous use in place of drug abuse to distinguish between the health effects of drug abuse rather than the social consequences.

Medical definitions
According to the Handbook on Drug and Alcohol Abuse, drug abuse refers to the "nonmedical use of drugs, both drugs that have and those that do not have generally accepted medical value".

In 1969, the World Health Organization defined drug abuse as "persistent or sporadic excessive drug use inconsistent with or unrelated to acceptable medical practice."

In 1975, psychiatrist Jerome H. Jaffe expanded the definition, as "the use, usually by self-administration, of any drug in a manner that deviates from the approved medical or social patterns within a given culture". According to Jaffe, the term "conveys the notion of social disapproval, and it is not necessarily descriptive of any particular pattern of drug use or its potential adverse consequences".

 * Frankly, I preffer the first, because it begins by dealing with what the two most commonly used diagnostic tools in the world have to say on the subject (that they used the term in the 50s and 60s and now use it as a sub-category of substance abuse). It then goes on to list another text that does still use it, and what the World Health Organization has to say on the subject, that they preffer other terms. I moved Jerome H. Jaffe into 'political and criminal justice', because the deifnition he provides was not a clinical one, it was given when he was working for the Nixon administration, and was never used medically, only politically. Viriditas' version does not mention the fact that the WHO stopped using the term, or why, which seems a major ommission. What do you think? Guttlekraw 05:00, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

 * Regarding the Handbook on Drug and Alcohol Abuse, frankly, I think it's being generous to even mention it. Compared to the DSM and the ICD, it is hardly a heavy hitter. It didn't even have a stub article until I just wrote one. Guttlekraw 06:33, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

WHO has changed its definitions multiple times, but the newer definitions never completely supplanted the older ones, in practice. I ran across three slightly different definitions from 1957, 1964, and 1965, along with a lengthy disclaimer that seems rather pertinent, so I added citations of these to the article. But if you search for excerpts of the citations I provided, Google turns up quite a few references all the way up to the present day, so apparently these definitions are still being promulgated and, I would assume, they are probably considered current by members of the medical and legal professions. The definitions are intertwined with definitions of addiction and dependence, the citations for which I tried to limit to just the relevant details. However, it could stand to be further paraphrased in the interest of brevity. I just wanted to get the raw material in there for now. I also added some early definitions of use and abuse from both the AMA and American Psychiatric Association — organizations which, like the WHO, are considered by their members and their publications' target audiences alike to be authoritative. Also, my apologies for not using preferred footnote format; I was under the impression I'd have to renumber the notes in other sections, but I guess not. If the citations can stay, I'll clean up the references in due time. Thanks. — mjb 10:28, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
 * Previous editors have inserted a great deal of inaccurate, original research into the article, much of which cannot be verified. Please remove anything you feel is inaccurate and leave a message on the talk page. --Viriditas  | Talk 10:44, 13 July 2005 (UTC)
 * I've reorganized the entire Definitions section again. The WHO is as much a political body as it is a medical authority, so I feel it is misleading to leave it in the 'Medical definitions' subsection. However, the WHO is the producer of the ICD, the commonly used diagnostic reference, so it's not fair to put the WHO material strictly under 'Political definitions'. There's politics in the AMA and APA definitions, as well, so I'm not sure these subcategories are really ideal. However, I've left them in for now. I haven't removed anything except for a couple of redundant statements. Given the reorg and new material, the side-by-side suggestion above is moot, at this point. — mjb 21:01, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Reference check
Checking references, Mosby's does not use, suggest or refer to "disapproval" as that was added by the editor. Further, the quote given by Leon Wurmser actually says the complete opposite of what the editor claims it says when read in context of the original paper. Both have been removed. --Viriditas | Talk 10:41, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Proposed outline

 * 1) Introduction
 * 2) durg abuse can destroy your life
 * 3) Problems with defintions
 * 4) Issues with abuse potential for listing as schedule I or II (i.e., cannabis does not seem to meet this requirement) (Related article: Cannabis rescheduling in the United States)
 * 5) Crime or disease?
 * 6) History of nonmedical drug consumption (Main article: History of drug use)
 * 7) Basic science, clinical, social issues
 * 8) Moderation vs. abuse
 * 9) Addiction (Main article: Drug addiction)
 * 10) Crime (Related article: Prohibition (drugs))
 * 11) Commonly abused drugs
 * 12) Alcohol (Related article: Alcohol abuse)
 * 13) General risks (diseases)
 * 14) Neuroscience
 * 15) Adverse effects on organ systems, from prenatal to adult (Related article: Alcoholic beverage)
 * 16) Benefits (Related article: Alcohol consumption and health)
 * 17) Cannabis
 * 18) General risks (diseases)
 * 19) Neuroscience
 * 20) Adverse effects on organ systems, from prenatal to adult
 * 21) Benefits (Related article: Medical marijuana)
 * 22) Opiates
 * 23) General risks (diseases)
 * 24) Neuroscience
 * 25) Adverse effects on organ systems, from prenatal to adult
 * 26) Benefits
 * 27) Cocaine and other stimulants
 * 28) General risks (diseases)
 * 29) Neuroscience
 * 30) Adverse effects on organ systems, from prenatal to adult
 * 31) Benefits
 * 32) Inhalants
 * 33) General risks (diseases)
 * 34) Neuroscience
 * 35) Adverse effects on organ systems, from prenatal to adult
 * 36) Benefits
 * 37) Other drugs
 * 38) Anabolic steroids
 * 39) Secondary stimulants
 * 40) Nicotine
 * 41) Caffeine
 * 42) Management and treatment (Main article: Substance abuse)
 * 43) Pharmacotherapies
 * 44) Other therapies
 * 45) Harm reduction
 * 46) Acupuncture
 * 47) Entheogens
 * 48) References

Restored the outline from the archive. --Viriditas | Talk 11:23, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

Response to outline
I note repeated use above of benefits. Abuse can bring benefits? Laurel Bush 09:32, 14 July 2005 (UTC).
 * Sorry for the confusion. I was referring to the benefits and risks of the drug itself.  An assessment of the benefits can shed light on the risks of harmful use (abuse) and misuse. --Viriditas  | Talk 12:39, 14 July 2005 (UTC)

I would alphabetize the commonly adused drugs listing or at least switch opiates and cocaine. Also, if you're going to include a references line, I suggest you include an external links line too.

Darrien 09:49, July 16, 2005 (UTC)

Proposed new opening sentences
Proposed new opening sentences/paragraphs:

 * There are now widespread, well-established, medical, social, educational and criminal justice programmes designed to prevent or remedy drug abuse. Clear definition of what is or is not drug abuse remains, however, quite elusive.

 * Legislation creates lists of drugs which are considered to have abuse potential, and criminalises unlicensed production, supply and possession. It does not establish, however, any clear definition of abuse, and some drugs which a generally considered to have abuse potential (such as alcohol and tobacco) are often exlcuded from this kind of legislation. Laurel Bush 11:25, 22 July 2005 (UTC).

 * Laurel, go ahead and make whatever changes you think are needed. If you have to remove content, try to make a note and leave the content here on talk or in your edit summary so that others can review it.  The page needs a lot of work, so please, have at it!  --Viriditas  | Talk 11:36, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Viriditas. I am thinking the existing opening sentence is easily read as meaning (1) 'recreational use' is always abuse or (2) some drugs, eg alcohol and tobacco, are somehow not real drugs. Also, it avoids the fact that there is considerable scope for debate about what is or is not drug use, and whether drug abuse is genuinely a useful concept. I do not feel that sentence is very objective: it is an assertion which avoids the reality of unresolved issues, tending to create or support a false sense of certainty.Laurel Bush 15:15, 22 July 2005 (UTC).
 * Laurel, I'm not sure which "opening sentence" you are referring to, here. Can you specify? --Viriditas  | Talk 06:00, 23 July 2005 (UTC)

Er ... Yes ... Perhaps I have misread that sentence, but I am very uneasy with its use of therapeutic. Also I am uneasy with the way that dangerous synthetic drugs can slip past the FDA, and other drug/medicines licensing agencies, while more natural medicines (not least those cannabis-based) tend to be excluded from legal therapeutic use. Laurel Bush 10:03, 3 August 2005 (UTC).
 * I don't see any problem with the use of "therapeutic", especially since it is referenced and is used as a current definition. Regarding the issue you raise in regard to "legal therapeutic use", I believe you are referring to "accepted clinical use", not drug abuse itself.  I have reverted the following content added to the lead:Drug abuse is taboo use of any substance which a society recognises or classes as a drug. Abuse may attract severe penalties (including death) and forced engagement with programmes designed to limit or eradicate the abuse..  For example, even Mosby's recognizes that "taboo" use of cannabis for therapeutic purposes is not abuse, however there may be controversy over other drugs such as LSD which some claim can be used for therapeutic purposes but is not recognized as such by the medical community.  --Viriditas  | Talk 06:19, 6 August 2005 (UTC)

'Therapeutic use' is problematic without the 'legal' qualifier, see medical marijuana for example, no therapeutic standard is agreed on.

Article certainly progressing nicely
This article has certainly come a long way and gone through many revisions... though based on the proposed outline above, there is still quite a bit missing ;)

Here is the original stub of the article, just to show the evolution... (and also to make sure that the original message doesn't get lost in the shuffle):

 * Drug abuse is the irresponsible use of psychoactive drugs, most often referring to those who have developed a dependence on drug use due to drug addiction.

 * There is some controversy to the inclusiveness of the definition. Anti-drug advocates classify recreational drug use as drug abuse, but this tends to be a social stigmatism based on legal status.  Scientifically there is little difference when comparing recreational use of alcohol to that recreational use of marijuana.  Both can be used responsibly and likewise, both can be abused.

 * Hard drugs (such as cocaine, methamphetamine, heroin and alcohol) are the most likely to be abused due to their addictive nature, and can be difficult to use responsibly. They lend themselves easily as tools for escapism purposes -- that is to allow people to hide from their problems.

 * Due to the legal status of most drugs, drug abuse tends to go unnoticed (and hence untreated) until it is quite far gone, and the road to recovery has become a long, hard battle. Fortunately, since the two most harmful and abused drugs are still legal in most countries (alcohol and tobacco), workable models for responsible use, and addiction recovery can be designed and built.

 * --Thoric 20:57, 22 July 2005 (UTC)

Article categories
Is there a category for articles where the discussion page is longer than the article itself and much of which appears to be two or several people arguing about each other's corrections (when the Innocent Bystanders who merely want information cannot see what all the fuss is about)?

Sniffing?
Is there an article that talks about the effect, methods and substances used in sniffing? As in sniffing glue or carburetor fluid.
 * Yes, the term for the substances is Inhalants, and the slang term for sniffing is Huffing (redirects to Inhalant). --Thoric 15:59, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Okay someone needs to fix the picture alignment

Pharmacotherapy
I updated the information on ReVia, since naltrexone is no longer marketed that way. I also removed the "Unfortunately" from the next line to bring in a NPOV. Many addiction medicine experts don't prescribe naltrexone because they don't think it works (despite the indication). Until someone proves that the drug is actually useful (and researchers haven't quite done that yet), we should simply say it's not being prescribed very much without making a value judgment.

Also added a brief section on abstinence-based treatment, which gives better outcomes for treatment of certain addictions (harm reduction also leads to better outcomes for some of the other addictions). Drgitlow 04:12, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Substance abuse vs drug abuse
I can see what the article substance abuse should do (I guess) but doesn't really say much at all that isn't said on the Drug Abuse page - in which case why not merge that one (substance abuse) into this one, and then have links to specific medical issues (eg pharmacotherapy or whatever, or pages on the drugs themselves with subheadings.

Just a suggestion - i looked briefly thorugh the talk pages to see whether this had come up before. cheersCas Liber 01:53, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

MMOOOOOOOOOO!!!!! hehe

Do we need this or not?
Hey I got this small piece of infomation. Do you think it is useful? And where shall we put it?SSBM Pro 04:36, 23 May 2007 (UTC) SteveNash11

Drug abuse occurs when a person's use of a drug interferes with his or her daily life. Usually people use drugs to treat medicial conditions. However, drug abusers do not use drugs as medince but as a way of coping with loneliness, boredom, or other nonmedicial problems. Drug abuse can lead to physicial dependence, or psychology depence. Although many people abuse illegal drugs such as cocaine or heroin, most drug abuse in the U.S occurs with legal drugs such as alcohol, nicotine, inhalants, and prescription drugs.

Alcohol is a drug that slows down the central neveous system. It interferes with thinking and movement.

Tobacco contains nicotine, a stimulant that smokers find pleasent and realxing. However, nicotine is highly addictive. Tobacco can cause lung cancer, heart dieases, and other illnesses.

People who abuse inhalents sniff substances such as glue or cleaning fluids. A person inhalents feels giddy. Inhalents can coat the lining of the lungs, resulting in coma or even death.

Prescription drugs are drugs ordered by the doctors's command.

Drug abuse can result in poor school or job performance.

Merge to Drug addiction
See Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Medicine for discussion. Mikael Häggström (talk) 08:50, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

It's not clear to me why this "Handbook on Drug and Alcohol Abuse" (which I have never heard of, and is not in common use on any medical curriculum I have seen) is given equal weight with the AMA and APA definitions. I took it out, and posted it below.

The Handbook on Drug and Alcohol Abuse defines drug abuse as "nonmedical use of drugs, both drugs that have and those that do not have generally accepted medical value". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.58.200.39 (talk) 17:04, 11 April 2008 (UTC)

I oppose this because drug abuse is just one possible feature of addiction. For example smokers don't abuse nicotine to get intoxicated like a cocaine or heroin or alcohol abuser would do so drug abuse is not always a feature of drug addiction. However, my main opposition would be simply a person (and most drug abusers fit this category), abuse drugs without developing an addiction to the drugs, they abuse drugs say at the weekend or at special occasions, basically on an occasional basis without becoming addicted. Many people snort cocaine abuse alcohol without it turning into an addiction.-- Literature geek |  T@1k?  00:16, 27 July 2008 (UTC)

Poor sentence
"Drug abuse makes central nervous system (CNS) effects, which produce changes in mood, levels of awareness or perceptions and sensations." That sentence does not make sense. I am not sure on how to reword it though Lordofhyperspace (talk) 05:40, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

"An estimated 4.7% of the global population aged 15 to 64, or 185 million people, consume illicit drugs annually"
Surely this is POV? Certain drugs will be illegal in certain countries while elsewhere they won't be. We have to reflect a world view on this article. For instance, alcohol consumption is illegal in some countries and i'm pretty sure that this is not included in the figure, and rightly so. Maybe clarification of which drugs is needed, as opposed to the word "illicit". Sillyfolkboy (talk) 00:54, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
 * That was exactly what I was thinking when I read the line. SO I tried the two sources that were referenced; one is gone, the other is from the US consulate in Mumbai, India, which already shows the problems of the term "illicit". Illicit by American laws? Indian laws? Respective to the country is currently residing in? Respective to the country they are (a) citizen(s) of? etc. And the text didn't even try to define the term "illicit". That way, I'm sorry to say that the term makes no sense at all. I took out the line, since nobody has asnswered to this post in a year, so I just assume nobody seems to care too much.--Flosch (talk) 12:48, 14 April 2009 (UTC)

Abuse of the word 'abuse'
It seems in the article that any drug being consumed just for pleasure is being 'abused'. Where is any official medical acknowledgment here of recreational and social use? The forces of law and order are fine, but they are the same ones who made beer UNCONSTITUTIONAL in the USA. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.193.144.79 (talk) 04:36, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

 * We need to reflect what is not bring our own opinons in. Thanks, SqueakBox 02:14, 10 September 2008 (UTC)

Seems to me that current common drug-related terminology is such that it is very difficult to say objectively just what is and is not Laurel Bush (talk) 16:24, 9 February 2009 (UTC)

Alcohol as a drug not alcohol by Baboloki Semele
Young people are more than addicted to alcohol consumption. It is a concerning issue to see that young people consume alcohol like cocaine, marijuana and cigarretes, to some it is not easy for a day to pass without them consuming alcohol. The possible effects of people who consume alcohol thus is violence, crime and finacials crisis. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 196.33.11.13 (talk) 13:55, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Drug abuse in the LGBT community
I think there should be a specific article about drug abuse in the LGBT community. I'm not saying this in a negative or discriminatory way, but many researchers have in fact found that the problem of drug abuse is at least 20-25 % more common among gays, lesbians or transsexuals. ADM (talk) 18:45, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
 * We should indicate that correlations of LGBT people having any higher rate likely correspond to Catholic violence of gender and sexual minorities over centuries. See, I can inject an editorial influence over articles too. -- Banj e  b oi   23:54, 2 September 2009 (UTC)

 * See "Party and play", which is more specifically about meth use in the LGBT community. -- œ ™ 04:41, 3 September 2009 (UTC)

National Commission on Marihuana and Drug Abuse quote
I added this because the Commission had a very broad mandate and was addressing the term in public health, public policy, drug law and other contexts. It's also based partly on surveys to determine what "drug abuse" meant to the general American public as well as to various interest groups within and without government. Also the language of the Controlled Substances Act, which established the Commission, is why "substance abuse" entered the common US legal and public vocabulary. This is an historically and socially significant quotation and definition. Moss&Fern (talk) 14:18, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

History section should be more than US history
The History section should be more than US history and should cover more of US history. The 1973 Report I quoted from has a long section on changing vocabulary and I should be able to look up later something about when the term entered the common US vocabulary. Moss&Fern (talk) 14:28, 11 December 2009 (UTC)

FY 2011 U.S: Demand Reduction Efforts
Fresh information on the USA scenario, which can be used to update this Wiki article:

--BatteryIncluded (talk) 16:04, 29 March 2010 (UTC)

apparently drugs are bad for you. and if you use to much then you die. end of story.

DONT DO DRUGS UNLESS YOU WANT TO DIE — Preceding unsigned comment added by 169.203.241.137 (talk) 20:31, 26 April 2012 (UTC)

title: Talk:Drug abuse


text:
Samuel Mitchell (VC)

Samuel Mitchell VC (8 September 1841 – 16 March 1894) was a Royal Navy sailor and a recipient of the Victoria Cross, the highest award for gallantry in the face of the enemy that can be awarded to British and Commonwealth forces.

Early life
Samuel Mitchell was born in Aspley in Bedfordshire, England, on 8 September 1841. His father was a labourer who later became a minister in a Wesleyan church. Mitchell joined the Royal Navy in 1857, shortly before his 16th birthday.

Military career
Mitchell served aboard HMS Crocodile and later the shore station in Portsmouth, HMS Excellent (shore establishment). In 1860 he was posted to HMS Harrier (1854), which was destined for service on the Australian Station. Operating out of Sydney, the Australian Station area of operations encompassed both Australia and New Zealand.

In 1863, during the Waikato-Hauhau Maori War in New Zealand, the Harrier participated in an expedition up the Waikato River in support of British Army operations. Mitchell, who had been made captain of the foretop, was part of a naval brigade that was raised for service in the Invasion of the Waikato and which fought in the Battle of Rangiriri. By the end of the year, the fighting in the Waikato region had ceased but hostilities had shifted to Tauranga, and Mitchell's brigade moved there to participate in the Tauranga Campaign.

On 29 April 1864, a storming party of 150 marines and sailors, which included Mitchell and the captain of the Harrier, Commander Edward Hay, together with soldiers of the 43rd Light Infantry, succeeded in establishing themselves inside a fortified position known as the Gate Pa. Hay was wounded and despite being ordered to seek safety, Mitchell carried his commander to shelter. Although Hay died soon after from his wounds, he requested that Mitchell be recognised for his actions. Hay's senior officer, Commodore Sir William Wiseman, duly recommended him for the Victoria Cross (VC). The citation for his VC read: "For his gallant conduct at the attack at Te Papa, Tauranga, on the 29th of April last, in entering the Pah with Commander Hay, and when that Officer was mortally wounded, bringing him out, although ordered by Commander Hay to leave him, and seek his own safety. This man was at the time 'Captain of the Fore-top' of the "Harrier," doing duty as Captain's Coxswain; and Commodore Sir William Wiseman brings his name to special notice for this act of gallantry."

Mitchell was presented with his VC by the Governor of New South Wales in a ceremony attended by over 9,000 people at The Domain in Sydney on 24 September 1864. It was the second presentation of the VC to take place in Australia, and the first in New South Wales. Promoted to boatswain's mate, he continued to serve in the Royal Navy before ending his career in the military in mid-1865.

Later life
Mitchell returned to New Zealand and settled on the West Coast of the South Island, and worked on the gold fields there. He later purchased land near Ross and took up farming. He drowned on 16 March 1894 when attempting to cross the Mikonui River, which was in flood at the time. His body was recovered three days later. He was survived by his wife, Agnes, whom he married in 1870, and ten children. He is buried in Ross Cemetery.

The medal
Following his VC investiture, Mitchell's medal was placed in storage along with other possessions in his sea chest, which he had left with the proprietors of the boarding house that he stayed in while in Sydney. He intended to have his belongings forwarded to him once he had settled in New Zealand but lost contact with the boarding house proprietors. His medal remained missing until around 1912, when it was purchased at an auction in London. His family attempted to negotiate with the owner of the medal for the return of the medal but it took the intervention of the Duke of York, before they were successful and it was purchased in 1928. His medal is now displayed in the Hokitika Museum in Hokitika.

title: Samuel Mitchell (VC)


text:
Talk:Ben Wa balls

Link check request
can someone check the link for goodvibe. it is not working
 * lol I wonder why that guy didnt sign? I dont think I will coz im paranoid
 * There's still logged IPs... About the article: there's no estimation when they were invented? Were they historically used exlusively by courtesans or prostitutes or did wives also use them? Were they for pleasure or medical conditions (ref: bladder control)? And as I seem to be a clueless female: how could they be used to enlarge penis size? --Sumiko 23:41, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Everything You Always Wanted to Know about Sex: But Were Afraid to Ask By David R. Reuben

By David R. Reuben Published 1971 Bantam Books 433 pages ISBN:0553104365

67.166.123.190 (talk) 19:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC) N Coppin

Re-writing
The section describing use in lesbian sex should probably use more appropriate (less "slangy") language

The accuracy of this article should be checked against reputable sources. It should be noted that they are the same as Baoding Balls which were originally created to help medical hand and wrist problems such as arthritis or carpal tunnel syndrome. The accurate history is in the Baoding Balls section of Wiki. The information here is western mythology perpetuating racist stereotyping of asian culture as exotic and sexual.DFZ (talk) 12:49, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Ben-Wa in Everything you Always...
To clear things up... This is page 201 of the paperback edition of Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex* (*But Were Afraid to Ask). It has no ISBN, as it was printed in July 1970, as far as I can tell. Any typos are mine.

What's a ben-wa?

Japanese automated masturbation. Hundreds of years ago, clever Japanese women, possibly driven by desperation, developed a technique for masturbating that to this day remains unexcelled. When a Japanese lady wants to relieve her sexual tensions she reaches into a little plus-lined case and takes out two small, shiny metal balls. Though they may vary in size according to the effect desired, in the average ben-wa set, each ball is about the size of an apricot. Expensive sets are made of silver or even gold--the everyday variety is polished steel and these days, of course, plastic. One ball is hollow, the other is partially filled with mercury. The empty ball is inserted well into the vagina, the globe with mercury follows. The woman then lies down, or better yet, rocks in a chair. As she gently rolls her hips, the mercury slides back and forth in the other ball, constantly nudging the inner ball against the cervix. The vibrations are transmitted outward to the entire vagina, clitoris, labia, and inward to the uterus itself. Sometimes Japanese women continue these languid movements for hours, drifting from one orgasm to another.

--Ich (talk) 06:52, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Yet another example of racism through sexualization of asian cultures. This piece is out of disreputable sources and directly contradicts the claims in the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by DFZ (talk • contribs) 12:48, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Care to source this information that was removed? Unfounded claims of racism in the actual article are going to be seen as vandal edits. Can you show anywhere that this was used in treatment for wrist injuries as you stated? Wildthing61476 (talk) 12:58, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Compare them to the baoding balls. They are the same. If you do a google search you will notice only american marketers selling them as sex balls. If you search for baoding balls, chinese marketers sell them as medical balls. A quick google search has this history and if you read the following discussion, people do notice this. http://surveycentral.org/survey/26402.html. Of course, better sources will be needed, but I do not have the time right now to find them. As for the racism part, read the article on Stereotypes of East and Southeast Asians in the United States. Go look at the hypersexualization of asian women. DFZ (talk) 13:05, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

 * These are not the same thing however. Nowhere in the Baoding Balls article does it make any mention of this, and I'd add that the link you sent is to a Survey site and it no way a reliable source to verify this. The information you've placed in the article also violation the NPOV policy with the claims of racism by the editors of this article. I am removing this unsourced, unverified, POV edit and would suggest dispute resolution as a way of sorting this out. Wildthing61476 (talk) 13:18, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Of course it's not a reliable source. I said it wasn't a reliable source and a better one needs to be found. At the very least it should be written that they should not be confused with the baoding balls, which they often are. Also, the sources in the article are hardly reputable themselves. DFZ (talk) 13:30, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

 * That last edit works a lot better, I just moved the location of the edit to make it easier to read. Wildthing61476 (talk) 13:37, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
 * With respect, Dfz, if yu think the source is bad, find one that contraverts it and bring it here (simply inserting it isn't going to help keep it in place until you explain why its a better source). I tend to think that the above source is incredibly unsourced, and since the Japanese aren't particularly as restrained as Westerners when it comes to ideas about sex (no Pilgrim guilt), there should be a fair amount of material to be found. - Arcayne   (cast a spell)  18:36, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

First, my initial issue with this article was that it is entirely based on disreputable sources that violate Wikipedia's policies for publication. See Verifiability. The sources cited are from sites such as self-published sex shop marketing schemes and a youtube video. Second, it's impossible to find sources to argue against something made up in an illegitimate source. For instance, if someone self-publishes a website claiming that ancient Europeans used to masturbate using sticks, there is no way that someone would be able to find a legitimate source to disprove that. Even if it spread and lots of people started saying it, it does not make it any more true (e.g. urban legends). Third, unless you can find a legitimate source to support your claim that "the Japanese aren't particularly as restrained as Westerners...", then that statement is simply another bad stereotype; once again supporting Stereotypes of East and Southeast Asians in the United States. Furthermore, one can hardly argue that the vast majority of Westerners are still under the power of "Pilgrim guilt." Fourth, I was pointing out that the above contention that the ben wa balls originated in Japan directly contradicted the article which claimed that the ben wa balls originated in China. Once again, a problem of everyone using illegitimate sources. Finally, unless someone can come up with a legitimate source to show that ben wa balls did originate in China, Japan, or wherever it might be, it's best not to have it in the article at all because readers will absorb the false information which will (1) lead to confusion since baoding medical balls are often mistakenly perceived to be/sold/used as ben wa balls and (2) support offensive negative stereotypes of "exotic, hypersexual orientals."DFZ (talk) 04:55, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

I read the "Everything you always wanted to know..." book in college, and then later lived in Japan for ten years. What I learned is that no one in Japan had ever heard of the word "ben-wa". In fact, "ben wa?" in Japanese sounds like "How's your excrement?" Not a very sexually stimulating comment (at least not for most people). This is like Chinese fortune cookies, Benihana restaurants, and Mongolian BBQ, things that Americans made up about Asia, but don't exist in Asia itself. I think it would be good for the article to reference this aspect of the term "ben wa balls", and perhaps find the real history of the term, if it can be found. --Westwind273 (talk) 05:27, 16 February 2013 (UTC)

Removal of Confusion sections and links to commercial sites that sells them
These sections are nothing but spam and should be removed for that purposes. JasonHockeyGuy (talk) 14:46, 13 August 2008 (UTC)

The IP ending in 116 was my edit - I simply forgot to login. (Hate how cookies work)JasonHockeyGuy (talk) 02:40, 14 August 2008 (UTC)

Marked as Spam
Because according to a google search I did, theres no real references that can qualify as reliable or backup the claims of other users that used this item.

Valuable citations can be taken from Havelock Ellis's discussion of "rin-no-tama" balls beginning on page 168 in "The evolution of modesty, the phenomena of sexual periodicity, auto-erotism (1910)" https://archive.org/details/cu31924013991686 — Preceding unsigned comment added by Jatlast (talk • contribs) 15:12, 23 January 2014 (UTC)

Maybe if we found something later, it would be encyclopedic.

Maybe we need to offer information about it in the Sex Toy article and not create an article about Ben Wa Balls itself. JasonHockeyGuy (talk) 09:46, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * There are two non-internet sources listed in the article--the Tannahill book and the Reuben book. WP:RS doesn't mean internet or nothing. Movingboxes (talk) 09:50, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Movingboxes, BTW I didnt place the advert tag. How would i go about getting the article into a re-review of its content? Seems most of my edits removed the spam but cant be too sure. JasonHockeyGuy (talk) 09:56, 28 August 2008 (UTC)
 * I'm not quite sure what you mean--do you mean an official review of the content, because I don't really think that is necessary. It looks like all the spam is gone (I'm still checking through it).  The main problem with researching this article on the internet is that sex is so commercialized online--anything valid is going to get buried in the spam.  I got several Google book results that looked promising, but I couldn't get a look at the book.  I'm going to the library on Friday--can we agree to wait and see what I can find in print?  I'll add whatever I find Friday-Sunday.  I understand it is hard to wait when you're looking at a not-good article, but I really do think this is an encyclopedic subject buried in a wall of internet spam. Movingboxes (talk) 10:01, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

Oh I can wait :) Youre right about the subject though, its one of those more hidden things buried in spam :)

Some things I do know about it. A disambiguation could be in place because theres a song by Blink 182 called Ben Wah Balls (http://www.mtv.com/lyrics/blink_182/ben_wah_balls/232377/lyrics.jhtml)

Also theres an entry on the Urban Dictionary Site:

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=ben+wah+balls JasonHockeyGuy (talk) 17:33, 28 August 2008 (UTC)

 * someone has to add the blink-182 reference from their album Cheshire cat, track 14 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_Cat_(album) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.78.36.15 (talk) 04:45, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Merge proposal
Since most of what applies here can also be applied to anal beads and vice versa I propose that everything be moved over there and to consolidate any resources there to support both. There's really no need for duplication when both are often used interchangeably in practice. Maybe both should be merged into a more general beads article. Biofase flame | stalk 15:08, 8 July 2009 (UTC)

Tighten = reduce elasticity?
The change at 22:34, 22 September 2009 by 140.103.194.159 changed
 * They are also used in the postnatal period, in order to tighten the vagina again.

to
 * They are also used in the postnatal period, in order to reduce the elasticity of the vagina.

Was this a good change? "Tighten" implies improving muscle strength, which seems to be a feature of youth, while "reduce the elasticity" implies an aging process. Even if "tighten the vagina again" is not the most elegant way of describing it, "reduce the elasticity of the vagina" isn't particularly elegant either.

Meaning of "Ben Wa"?
What language is the name "Ben Wa" taken from, and what is it supposed to mean? Phonemically it sounds like Mandarin, but it does not seem to mean anything (at least, not that I can puzzle out).118.165.205.90 (talk) 10:08, 1 September 2010 (UTC)
 * Yeah, how dare Wikipedia not give the origin of the words! Jidanni (talk) 00:22, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * Please look it up and report back what you can find in reliable sources so it can be added to the article. DMacks (talk) 01:44, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * ☻ Jidanni (talk) 14:15, 12 July 2012 (UTC)
 * I don't think the etymology has been established. Maybe someone just invented the name. Ben Wa certainly doesn't mean anything in Mandarin, as the first user suspected. 98.115.255.240 (talk) 21:16, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

Ralph Fitch
At the end of the sixteenth century, Ralph Fitch, an English traveller, encountered them in the Shan States of Myanmar. He described their use there by men. Less than a dozen years later, the Florentine merchant Francesco Carletti also reported their use in Thailand, where they were used to enlarge the penis.
 * Removed as irrelevant. This regards the Fitch reference to "men weare bunches or little round balles in their privy members" ; it's a different practice, subcutaneous penis inserts, not Ben Wa balls held (removably) in an orifice. Gordonofcartoon (talk) 17:39, 24 March 2014 (UTC)

Pic of muscles involved in Kegel exercise
The first illustration is of muscles involved in a Kegel exercise. However, Ben Wa balls appear to be related to Kegel only superficially. My suggestion would be to remove this picture. Викидим (talk) 00:26, 25 October 2023 (UTC)

 * No objections for a month, removed. Викидим (talk) 23:06, 22 November 2023 (UTC)

title: Talk:Ben Wa balls