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M. F. Husain

Maqbool Fida Husain (17 September 1915 – 9 June 2011) was an Indian artist known for executing bold, vibrantly coloured narrative paintings in a modified Cubist style. He was one of the most celebrated and internationally recognised Indian artists of the 20th century. He was one of the founding members of Bombay Progressive Artists' Group. M.F. Husain is associated with Indian modernism in the 1940s. His early association with the Bombay Progressive Artists' Group used modern technique, and was inspired by the "new" India after the partition of 1947. His narrative paintings, executed in a modified Cubist style, can be caustic and funny as well as serious and sombre. His themes—sometimes treated in series—include topics as diverse as Gandhi, Mother Teresa, the Ramayana, the Mahabharata, the British Raj, and motifs of Indian urban and rural life. In September 2020, his painting titled “Voices”, auctioned for a record $2.5 million.

Husain's later works have stirred controversy, which included nude portrayals of Hindu deities, and a nude portrayal of Bharat Mata. Right-wing organisations called for his arrest, and several lawsuits were filed against him for hurting religious sentiments. He remained in a self imposed exile from 2006 until his death in 2011, accepting Qatari citizenship in 2010.

In 1967, he received the National Film Award for Best Experimental Film for Through the Eyes of a Painter. In 2004, he directed Meenaxi: A Tale of Three Cities, a film he worked on with his artist son Owais Husain, which was screened in the Marché du film section of the 2004 Cannes Film Festival.

Biography
Husain was born on 17 September 1915 in Pandharpur, Bombay Province (present-day Maharashtra) in a Suleymani Bohra family. He picked up taste in art through studying calligraphy while he stayed at a Madrasa in Baroda. Husain attended the Sir Jamsetjee Jeejebhoy School of Art in Mumbai but couldn't finish his schooling. Early in his career, Husain painted cinema posters in Mumbai. To earn additional income, he worked for a toy company designing and building toys. He often travelled to Gujarat to paint landscapes whenever he could afford to travel.

Husain developed his painting skills in the 1930s, painting billboards for the growing Bollywood film industry. This was a clique of young artists who wished to break with the nationalist traditions established by the Bengal school of art and to encourage an Indian avant-garde, engaged at an international level. In 1934, he sold his first painting for Rs 10 on the roadside. Husain's father, who was an accountant, wanted him to get into business.

The artists cite "The Partition" of India and Pakistan 14 August 1947, with its resulting religious rioting and heavy loss of life as their reason for forming The Progressive Artist's Group in Bombay in December 1947. The artists saw the Partition as a "turning point" for India, and their new style of art was urged on by, and was also a turning point for, (modern) Indian Art. Husain's first solo art exhibition was in 1952 in Zürich. His first U.S. exhibit was at India House in New York City in 1964. his biography written by Akhilesh "Maqbool" is the most appreciated book published by Rajkamal Prakashan New Delhi.

Husain was a special invitee along with Pablo Picasso at the São Paulo Biennial, Brazil in 1971. He was nominated to the Rajya Sabha in 1986. He married Fazila Bibi (d. 1998) in 1941, they had six children: four sons (including artists Shamshad and Owais) and two daughters - Raisa, his muse and an actress and costume designer in his films and Aqueela, his muse.

1990–2005
Although he was raised in a Muslim household, Husain sought freedom to capture the essence of beauty in other religious cultures, for which he received a backlash. His paintings allegedly hurt the religious sentiments of Hindus, which beginning in the 1990s mounted a campaign of protest against him. The paintings in question were created in 1970, but did not become an issue until 1996, when they were printed in Vichar Mimansa, a Hindi monthly magazine, which published them in an article headlined "M.F. Husain: A Painter or Butcher". In response, eight criminal complaints were filed against him. In 2004, Delhi High Court dismissed these complaints of "promoting enmity between different groups ... by painting Hindu goddesses – Durga and Sarswati, that was later compromised by Hindu fundamentalist groups." In 1998 Husain's house was attacked by Hindu fundamentalist groups like Bajrang Dal and art works were vandalised. The leadership of another fundamentalist political party Shiv Sena endorsed the attack. Twenty-six Bajrang Dal activists were arrested by the police. Protests against Husain also led to the closure of an exhibition in England.

He has also produced & directed several movies, including Gaja Gamini (2000) (with his muse Madhuri Dixit who was the subject of a series of his paintings which he signed Fida). The film was intended as a tribute to Ms. Dixit herself. In this film she can be seen portraying various forms and manifestations of womanhood including the muse of Kalidasa, the Mona Lisa, a rebel, and musical euphoria. He also appeared in a scene in film Mohabbat, which had Madhuri Dixit in lead role. In the film, the paintings that were supposedly done by Madhuri were actually Husain's. He went on to make Meenaxi: A Tale of Three Cities (with Tabu). The film was pulled out of cinemas a day after some Muslim organisations raised objections to one of the songs in it. The All-India Ulema Council complained that the Qawwali song Noor-un-Ala-Noor was blasphemous. It argued that the song contained words directly taken from the Quran. The council was supported by Muslim organisations like the Milli      Council, All-India Muslim Council, Raza Academy, Jamiat-ul-Ulema-e-Hind and Jamat-e-Islami. Husain's son stated that the words were a phrase referring to divine beauty that were being sung by the central character played by Tabu. He said there was no intention to offend. Following the wave of protests the enraged artist withdrew his movie from cinemas. The film was well received by the critics, however, and went on to win various awards.

2006–2011
In February 2006, Husain was charged with "hurting sentiments of people" because of his nude portraits of Hindu gods and goddesses. In addition, on 6 February 2006 issue, India Today, a national English weekly published an advertisement titled "Art For Mission Kashmir". This advertisement contains a painting of {Bharatmata} (Mother India) as a nude woman posed across a map of India with the names of Indian States on various parts of her body. The exhibition was organised by Nafisa Ali of Action India – an (NGO) and Apparao Art Gallery. Organisations like VHP protested persistently against Husain displaying the painting on the websites and even in exhibitions in north Europe. As a result, Husain apologised and promised to withdraw the painting from an auction, though it later sold for Rs 80 lakh. The painting later appeared on Husain's official website. Husain claims that the loss of his mother at the age of a year and a half is a possible reason for his pattern of paintings depicting a maternal Indian figure.

Husain became the best-paid painter in India, his highest-selling piece fetching $1.6 million at a 2008 Christie's auction.

Hundreds of lawsuits in connection with Husain's allegedly obscene art were outstanding as of 2007. A warrant was issued for his arrest after he did not appear at a hearing, though this warrant was later suspended.

Husain lived in self-imposed exile from 2006 until his death. He generally lived in Doha and summered in London. For the last years of his life Husain lived in Doha and London, staying away from India, but expressing a strong desire to return, despite fears of being prosecuted.

In 2008 Husain was commissioned to create 32 large-scale paintings of Indian history. He finished 8 before his death. In 2010, he was conferred Qatari nationality, and he surrendered his Indian passport; though he still held an Overseas Citizenship of India. In Qatar, he principally worked on two large projects, one on the history of Arab civilisation, commissioned by Qatar's first lady, Mozah bint Nasser Al Missned, and one on the history of Indian civilisation. The works are to be housed in a museum in Doha.

At the age of 92 Husain was given the prestigious Raja Ravi Varma award by the government of Kerala. The announcement led to controversy in Kerala and some cultural organisations campaigned against the granting of the award and petitioned the Kerala courts. Social Activist, Rahul Easwar, went to Kerala High Court and it granted an interim order to stay the granting of the award until the petition had been disposed of.

In 2010, the Jordanian Royal Islamic Strategic Studies Centre named Husain as one of the 500 most influential Muslims. M. F. Husain died, aged 95, on 9 June 2011, following a heart attack. He had been unwell for several months. He died at the Royal Brompton Hospital in London, and was buried in Brookwood Cemetery on 10 June 2011.

Other Indian artists expressed criticism. Satish Gujral publicly asked Husain whether he would dare to portray Islamic figures similarly. However Gujral stated that he deeply regretted the way Husain was treated and forced into an exile because of what Gujral termed "the mob culture". And Harsh Goenka, a Mumbai-based industrialist, claims that forcing Husain into exile "is, in a way, showing the weakness of the system, that we cannot protect the rights of the citizen".

Writing in The Pioneer, Chandan Mitra wrote, "As long as such a law exists in the statutes, nobody can be faulted for approaching the courts against Husain's objectionable paintings, nor can the judiciary be pilloried for ordering action against the artist for his persistent and deliberate refusal to appear before the court."

In response to the controversy, Husain's admirers petitioned the government to grant Husain the Bharat Ratna, India's highest award. According to Shashi Tharoor, who supported the petition, it praised Husain because his "life and work are beginning to serve as an allegory for the changing modalities of the secular in modern India – and the challenges that the narrative of the nation holds for many of us. This is the opportune and crucial time to honour him for his dedication and courage to the cultural renaissance of his beloved country." Husain had such a vast amount of work that spanned over 10 decades producing roughly 40,000 paintings by the end of his lifetime.

On his part Husain stated that leading Hindu leaders have not spoken a word against his paintings, and they should have been the first ones to have raised their voice and only people with political intentions created controversy.

After Husain's death, Shiv Sena chief Bal Thackeray said, "He only slipped up on the depiction of Hindu gods and goddesses. Otherwise, he was happy and content in his field. If his demise is a loss for modern art, then so be it. May Allah give him peace!"

Awards and honours

 * Padma Shri in 1966, Government of India.
 * Padma Bhushan in 1973, Government of India.
 * Padma Vibhushan in 1991, Government of India.
 * Raja Ravi Varma Award in 2007, Government of Kerala.
 * Honorary Doctorates from Banaras Hindu University, Jamia Millia Islamia, University of Calicut (2003) and University of Mysore.
 * National Art Award in 2004, Lalit Kala Akademi, New Delhi.
 * Aditya Vikram Birla ‘Kalashikkar’ Award in 1997 for Lifetime Achievement.
 * National Film Award for Best Experimental Film for Through the Eyes of a Painter, in 1968 India.
 * Golden Bear short film award for his film Through the Eyes of a Painter at Berlin International Film Festival in 1967 and purchased by Museum of Modern Art (MOMA), New York City.
 * International Biennale Award in 1959, Tokyo.
 * First Prize at the National Exhibition of Art in 1955, Lalit Kala Akademi, New Delhi.
 * Bombay Art Society in 1947, Mumbai.

Legacy
Indian film director Santi P. Choudhury made Husain, a documentary film on his life in 1980. Choudhury had earlier made another documentary on the artist, A Painter Of Our Time: Hussain, in 1976. Both of these were produced by the Government of India's Films Division, for whom Husain himself had earlier made the film Through the Eyes of a Painter.

On 17 September 2015, search engine Google commemorated M. F. Husain with a Doodle on his birth centenary.

title: M. F. Husain


text:
User talk:Killing Vector

Hi! welcome to Wikipedia!

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-- utcursch | talk

Please check out RfC related to National Bolsheviks
Please check out and comment on the Rfc filed against me for trying to have NBP libel about me removed. Requests_for_comment/69.253.195.228

Fan Dance
You urged for a merger of 'Fan Dance' with 'Fan dance (exercise)'. I cannot immediately find such in the WP:MM related pages. I contributed to the latter article today, including a reference (with its own bibliography) that is not stated in either article. I also created a redirect from 'Long Drag'. I would oppose to either title for the merger: it should be 'Fan Dance (exercise)' because I find only capital D in this context (and there is an unrelated article Fan Dance (album) but it seems incorrect to assume that the SAS meaning is more generally known and thus the article 'Fan Dance' must become a disambiguity page to the album and to the excercise, not replace either one). You created the article and started a merger process (possibly without mentioning it in the appropriate WP:PM list?), I leave it up to you to follow-up by performing the merger and finally WP:Move the current article to the name I suggested here. — SomeHuman 23 Sep2006 11:54 (UTC)

Fixed your talk page archiving
Hi! I took the liberty of fixing the auto-archiving settings at the top of this page. --rchard2scout (talk) 08:34, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:WPF query
Template:WPF query has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. Izno (talk) 22:31, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Orphaned non-free image File:TUSC transparency.png
Thanks for uploading File:TUSC transparency.png. The image description page currently specifies that the image is non-free and may only be used on Wikipedia under a claim of fair use. However, the image is currently not used in any articles on Wikipedia. If the image was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that images for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Wikipedia (see our policy for non-free media).

Note that any non-free images not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described in section F5 of the criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. --B-bot (talk) 18:30, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

re: lintner to enzyme units
Where did 18.08 come from? This formula seems to mix intensive and extensive units. Thank you 169.237.233.18 (talk) 02:53, 17 October 2022 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: User talk:Killing Vector


text:
User talk:Jer v

Hi! welcome to Wikipedia!

Hope you enjoy contributing to Wikipedia. Be bold in editing pages. Here are some links that you might find useful:

 * Try the Tutorial. If you have less time, try How to edit a page.
 * To sign your posts (for eg. on talk pages) use 	 ~  (four tildes). This will insert your name and timestamp. To insert just your name, type (3 tildes).
 * You can experiment in the Sandbox.
 * For help, see Where to ask a question.
 * Some other pages that will help you know more about Wikipedia: Manual of Style and Five pillars, Neutral point of view, Civility, What Wikipedia is not
 * You can contribute in many ways: write a great article, fight vandalism, upload pictures, perform maintainance tasks, contribute to existing projects...

I hope you stick around and keep contributing to Wikipedia. Drop us a note at New user log.

-- utcursch | talk

February 2016

A page you created has been nominated for deletion as an attack page, according to section G10 of the criteria for speedy deletion.

Do not create pages that attack, threaten, or disparage their subject. Attack pages and files are not tolerated by Wikipedia, and users who create or add such material may be blocked from editing. LoudLizard (📞 | contribs | ✉) 21:44, 22 February 2016 (UTC)

title: User talk:Jer v


text:
Talk:RAF Machrihanish

[Untitled]
Your report fails to mention very important aspects of the bases 'murky' past. This whole area is known as the UK equivalent of Nevada's Area 51. Many unexplained UFO phenomenon and strange weather patterns has happened here and continues to this day.

Second longest runway in the UK?
The second-longest after RAE Bedford presumably? Do we have a list of such things anywhere on Wikipedia? Ojw 14:47, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

 * I have not got access to data on RAF airfields handy but the AIS website gives Machrihanish as 3049M, Heathrow 3901M & 3660M, Gatewick 3316M, Stanstead 3048M. It just seems to be a story that has been repeated so many times that it is believed, like the Aurora report which originated in one newspaper report that has been copied numerous times so thata web search gives many matches but all from the same source.
 * Security was originally very heavy because of the nuclear weapons stored there rather than any mysterious aircraft being tested or LGM kept there. --jmb 01:34, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Dark Past, Dark Future.
Ron Halliday has published in his book UFO Scotland a list of some of the many UFO sightings that has happened at this base. He also asks the very relevant question, why does the MOD still keep this place, for what purpose? In July 2005 the local paper published a number of UFO reports. They are up to no good there!

There have been rumours of RAF Macrihanish re-opening as an active base.

http://news.scotsman.com/scotland.cfm?id=202502005

That rumour resulted in a question to parliament - the base remains in "care and maintenance" mode, with no plans to change that status.

Inaccuracies
Inaccuracies, POV... For starters the "massive" runway for sure isn't. In reality it is shorter than Heathrow's and well down the pecking league. Until fairly recently the HIAL website had the same claim (only recently watered down, but still OTT). wangi 01:13, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

MOD Machrihanish ?
The RAF still call it RAF Machrihanish on their website. --jmb 00:16, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

SEAL ID Added
I've added the Navy SEAL unit identification and the unit strength. I did not put down that this unit had the Small Atomic Demolition Munition as part of its arsenal because I cannot confirm it. But it was always widely rumored that this base stockpiled these U.S. man-portable nuclear weapons.Lastcharlie 16:08, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

 * According to Fortress Scotland it was NSWU 2 that was based at Machrihanish but it is probable that various units used it. Also USN MMAG Det 2 according to the same source.  --jmb 16:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Speculation
I agree about deleting most of the speculation, the more it appears then the more it is believed by some. I think the reply about USN pulling out in 1995 was purely the storage facility there, they were never involved in the operation of the airfield. The fact that an airfield is used for occasional exercises does not prove any dark purpose behind it, many others are used especially during the old JMC / present day Neptune Warrior. --jmb 01:44, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 * I visited Macrihanish when I was with the ATC, and the US base was pretty far away from the runway and the whole compound looked fairly isolated from the RAF buildings. Overall though, the whole base was pretty sparse, it wasn't exactly a hive of activity, like say RAF Finningley used to be.  As far as I know, the runway was used by NATO aircraft as well as civil, but that's not an uncommon thing in military airfields. Douglasnicol 15:59, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

Irony about info
While this site may not be POV, it's ironic that this version of a wiki seems to have more information, and be better overall about Macrihanish

http://www.secretscotland.org.uk/index.php/Secrets/RAFMachrihanish

Good page overall Douglasnicol 17:58, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Nuclear Test Site?
Local Newspapers often run stories of local people old enough to remember the brilliant flashes of intensely strong light that lit up the night sky around Machrihanish. There was also rumours of testing of Nuclear Depth Charges being tested in the waters around the base. Locals accuse the M.O.D. of being unhelpful in dealing with enquiries about the Nuclear Tests if there were any. The M..O.D. has owned up to many Operations which it formally denied, so there seems little to be gained by them keeping any such papers on Machrihanish secret.Johnwrd (talk) 06:58, 5 June 2010 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

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 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20090526231945/http://www.campbeltowncourier.co.uk:80/news/fullstory.php/aid/5066/Base_for_sale.html to http://www.campbeltowncourier.co.uk/news/fullstory.php/aid/5066/Base_for_sale.html

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Gaelic motto
I'd like to note that the motto is at best hopelessly mangled Gaelic. For the first thing, "adhna" means "advocate" as in "lawyer." Perhaps they meant Airm a dhìon na fairgeachan (note accent), which means "Arms (or army) that defended the seas." Because bad Gaelic is a systemic problem, I'd rather not leave it up uncritically. Perhaps add a note? Catrìona (talk) 17:53, 1 July 2018 (UTC)
 * Hi, I cannot speak Gaelic so my apologies on that score. Several possibilities arise for the inaccuracies but what I can say is that the cite given (The RAF Heraldry Trust) have had access to the original painting as approved by the monarch at that time, so no matter how inaccurate it may be, that is the approved motto. Incidentally, Pine states the motto to be Airm a dhionadh na fairgeachan.

 * Best guess? The Herald who approved it was not particular about the translation, the station submitted and did not check properly or someone stuffed the RAF for a laugh (could be a combination of all three!) I think a note should be inserted because whilst it is clearly wrong, it still is the station's motto regardless. Perhaps it is meant to say advocate and the translation into English is incorrect? Regards. The joy of all things (talk) 19:35, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

 * I think the most likely case is that there is a typo on the RAF website, and the actual motto was "Airm a dhionadh na fairgeachan." According to the IWM, there is a memorial in Campbeltown with the words "AIRM A DHIONADH NA FAIRGEACHAN." Except for the missing accent on dhìonadh, that's correct Gaelic for "Arms/army that would defend the seas." Catrìona (talk) 21:35, 1 July 2018 (UTC)

title: Talk:RAF Machrihanish


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Talk:Start of Authority

How about a definition for a DNS SOA (Start of Authority) record? To start with:

- "Simple DNS Plus explains SOA-Records (Start of authority)":http://www.jhsoft.com/help/rec_SOA.htm

- "SOA records are defined in RFC 1035, Domain Names - Implementation and Specification":http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc1035.txt

title: Talk:Start of Authority


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PS Audio

PS Audio is an American company specializing in high-fidelity audio components (also known as high-end audio) equipment for audiophiles and the sound recording industry. It currently produces audio amplifiers, preamplifiers, power related products, digital-to-analog converters, streaming audio, music management software and cables.

Corporate history
PS Audio was founded in 1973 and shipped its first products in 1974. It was started by audio designers Paul McGowan and Stan Warren (with whose initials the company was named). Warren left the company in the early 1980s to form Superphon. His position as audio designer and co-owner was assumed by Dr. Bob Odell, an audio designer who had created notable Harman Kardon designs. McGowan left the company in 1990 to join Arnie Nudell of Infinity Systems to build high-end speakers with Genesis Technologies.

PS Audio was purchased in 1990 by Steve Jeffery and Randall Patton, and operated independently until 1998. During this time, the company introduced their Ultra series of products, based on technology developed by the Ultra Analog Corporation, including the UltraLink DAC (Stereophile magazine product of the year) and Lambda transport. Jeffery and Patton later purchased Ultra Analog and Threshold Corporation.

In early 1997, PS Audio Inc. ceased operations due to financial problems. Shortly thereafter, Paul McGowan bought back the name 'PS Audio', and has been the CEO and principal designer for new products since then. In December 1997, he left Genesis Technologies to work full-time for PS Audio. In the first quarter of 2000, the new PS Audio International grew quickly, and Peter Rudy was added as president. In 2002, former owner Steve Jeffery became president. In 2009 he retired from the company and James H. Laib assumed the role of general manager. Laib became the company's president in 2015.

As of July, 2019, PS Audio employs 51 people, nearly half of whom support its engineering team. Manufacturing takes place at PS Audio's Boulder Colorado facility, and the company ships products worldwide.

Pre-1990s
PS Audio's first product was a standalone phono preamplifier, sold direct to consumers for $59.95. The small unit had a passive RIAA curve sandwiched between two 709C op amps running in class A mode and considered state of the art at the time for solid state. Later iterations of the phono preamplifier were introduced that moved away from the use of integrated IC op amps and moved to discrete high-voltage solid state amplification modules, retaining the passive RIAA curve. Models include the II and the III.

To augment the company's standalone phono preamplifiers, standalone line stage preamplifiers were introduced next, known as Linear Control Centers or LCC. One of the innovative features of the LCC was a bypass switch that permitted the user to select the use of an internal amplification module or straight into the potentiometer for volume control. Originally labeled 0 dB (line stage in) or -20 dB (passive only) this feature remained with all future PS Audio line stages and preamplifiers, later becoming labeled Straightwire in or out.

With the advent of the III phono stage, the form factor moved from no faceplate to a small 8.5" rack style faceplate enabling owners to combine the two chassis into one unit, thus forming the first PS Audio preamplifier with phono input. This series marked the end of the first era of modular chassis approach to preamplification.

Later preamplifier offering included the PS IV, the company's first 17" full chassis design and featured an external power supply for the first time in the American high-end audio industry. The IV featured a built in phono preamplifier with a novel switch on the bottom of the unit enabling users to select Moving Coil or Moving Magnet cartridges. Instead of adding in another circuit known as a head amp to increase the gain for Moving Coil cartridges, the IV took advantage of its passive RIAA curve design and simply increased the gain of the input amplification stage by an additional 30 dB. All future preamplifiers pre-1997 had this unique circuit that reduced the circuitry in the path of the phono cartridge.

During the same era (late 1970s) PS Audio introduced its first power amplifier, the Model One, a solid state design producing 70 watts per channel into 8 Ohms and 140 watts per channel into 4 Ohms. The design was a classic AB amplifier design featuring the company's first full 19" chassis design, large power supply, low feedback and minimalist design constraints. The Model One was later followed with the world's first Audiophile integrated amplifier introduced by an American High-End company, the Elite. Based on the Model One architecture, the Elite integrated the Linear Control Center into a Model One amplifier chassis. The Model One was replaced by the Model II, moving back to a smaller modular chassis approach at 8.5" with faceplate. The Model II produced 40 watts per channel into 8 Ohms, 70 watts per channel into 4 Ohms and had a Bridging switch enabling the user to bridge the internal stereo amplifiers into one mono amplifier, producing 160 watts into 4 Ohms. The Model II was followed by the IIC, featuring the same circuitry placed into a standard 19" rack mount chassis. The IIC introduced a new concept to the Audiophile marketplace, use of a separate external power supply for an amplifier. Users could choose from two models of external power supply, one as standard and an upgrade to a larger High Current version. The concept of an external power supply was first introduced on the PS Audio IV preamplifier and later applied to power amplifiers like the IIC. The concept became known as the High Current Power Supply or HCPS and was popular because improvements to the sound quality were gained by moving to a larger power supply, both in the application of the preamplifier as well as power amplifiers. The model IIC is factory rated at 55 watts into 8 ohms and 200 watts bridged mode (400 watts into 4 ohms bridged). The IIC Plus is rated at 70 watts into 8 ohms. Amplifier successors to the IIC included the 250 Delta monoblock and the 100 Delta amplifier.

In the early 1980s and with the advent of the Compact Disc, PS was one of the first American high-end audio manufacturers to modify one of the few CD players of the day by replacing its internal audio amplification stage following the internal D to A player. The first and only modified CD player introduced by the company was the CD-1 based on the Philips Magnavox line of CD players. The company engineers chose the Magnavox unit because the belief at the time was it sounded better to its only rival in the marketplace, the Sony. Inside the CD 1 PS engineers added a discrete high voltage line stage and power supply, replacing the NE5532 op amps used as the output amplification stage of the Magnavox. This unit was a stopgap product designed to get the company "in the game" of this new format that would someday challenge vinyl, the company's core products addressed. In the background, PS engineers were working to figure out a way to utilize the CD players digital output and create a standalone D to A converter. In late 1982, the company succeeded in releasing the first high-end standalone D to A converter known as the Digital Link. Other manufacturers such as Arcam and Theta were also on the same path and both companies released competing D to A processors within several months of the Digital Link's introduction From this point onwards, the company has produced a succession of DACs with the same goal in mind - that of supplanting the built in DAC and line stage of CD players. Later advances in CD technology led the high-end audio industry to release a new category of product called a CD Transport that contained no DAC and meant to use as a pair which became known as a DAC and Transport combination.

1990–1997
From 1990 to 1997, co-founder McGowan left the company and joined Infinity founder Arnie Nudell to form Genesis Loudspeakers. During the 7-year period between 1990 and 1997 the company was owned and operated by Steve Jeffery, President and general manager and Randy Patton, VP of sales, marketing and product development.

Products during this era of the company took a somewhat different direction under the design guidance of Dr. Robert Odell and product development VP Randy Patton (Sumo). Preamplifiers built during this era included the 6.0 and 6.5 and were IC op amp based rather than discrete high-voltage designs of the past era. It was during this time period the company acquired a more modern look to the industrial design.

The biggest contributions to the company product legacy was the line of digital audio products engineered by the outside vendor Ultra Analog located in the Bay Area. Ultra Analog, headed by Dick Powers, was an engineering centric ODM/OEM producing some of the world's first 24 bit DAC modules. These modules were hybrids potted in epoxy and were built around multiple Burr Brown 16 and 18 bit DAC chips. The first products from this partnership were the PS Audio Ultralink DAC, Reference Link DAC and A/D converter and Lambda transport. The Ultralink garnered Stereophile magazines product of the year. The Lambda transport was built around a Marantz CD mechanism. The Ultralink, Reference Link and Lambda transport were designed and built by Ultra Analog and marketed under the PS brand for nearly 5 years. PS Audio Inc. acquired Ultra Analog in 1994.

In 1995 PS Audio also acquired Hales loudspeakers and the Threshold Corporation. Following the two acquisitions Randy Patton purchased all shares of PS Audio from Steve Jeffery and owned 100% of the corporation. Steve Jeffery went on to be appointed President of the Wadia Corporation, a competing high-end audio DAC manufacturer.

Patton ran PS Audio and the Threshold Corporation until 1997 when the entity ceased operations and declared bankruptcy. Steve Jeffery, the primary creditor of the corporation, liquidated the remaining assets of the company and sold the name PS Audio back to McGowan, who restarted operations in 1998.

1997–2014
With the return of co-founder McGowan to PS Audio, the company returned to its roots of high-end audio by producing an entirely new category of product, the AC regenerator. McGowan reasoned that in order to return the company to viability in a very crowded and competitive market it was necessary to take a Blue Ocean Strategy and provide a product that solved a major problem in all high-end systems, the AC power feeding them.

Realizing that the (then) infantile power conditioning category consisted only of filters that cleaned power line noise and did not address the larger issues of voltage regulation and sine wave purity, a new type of product called a regenerator was created. The first regenerator prototype was large stereo power amplifier fed by a low distortion Hewlett-Packard sine wave oscillator. Each channel of the power amplifier produced 60 volts AC and when a load was placed across the two out of phase channels of the amplifier, the required 120 volts AC was achieved to power products. The research and prototype phase of the regenerator included various listening tests at different frequencies and 400 Hz was found to sound best (50 Hz and 60 Hz is standard) when equipment was powered by the amplifier. Further research negated the use of 400 Hz sine waves because many tube amplification systems were not filtered well enough at higher frequencies and the 400 Hz tone could be heard through the system. 60 Hz was the final design choice and the first product was launched. It was called a Power Plant and the model was the P300, producing up to 300 watts of regenerated, regulated AC power.

The P300 was designed to produce up to 300 watts of clean power to connected audio equipment. The P-300 had a digital sine wave stored in memory, which it passed through a digital-to-analog converter and then amplified to 117V (adjustable) at a frequency of 60 Hz (adjustable). Thus, connected equipment was provided with a precise 117V, 60 Hz power signal (in the US, other countries had units for their specific voltage and frequency) lacking noise from the utility company. The P-300 provided, in theory, perfect noise free power of the same specifications that the power company should be providing. Various additional "waves" known as "multiwave" were also provided.

The P-300 is a historically important product in high-end audio as it helped redefine and popularize the Power Conditioner product category and spawned imitation. This even though companies such as Accuphase followed with their own concept of power regeneration (though not additional waves, i.e., "multiwave" which PS audio claims provide additional benefits).

More powerful models of the P-300 were introduced including the P600, P1000, P1200 and P1000. The P-500 and P-1000 provided up to 500 and 1000 watts of "clean" power to connected equipment but with the penalty of generating a tremendous amount of heat in the process. Because Power Plants utilized a traditional analog class A/B stereo power amplifier they were only 50% efficient. This meant that for every watt delivered to the load, an identical watt of heat was generated, thus requiring massive heat sinks to dissipate the heat. On August 21, 2007, US patent 7259705 was issued to PS Audio for the design rights to a new efficient tracking power regenerator that improved efficiency from 50% to 85% based on the same principles of regeneration. That same year, PS Audio introduced the Power Plant Premier, the first of its new AC Regenerator products to utilize this tracking AC technology it patented. In 2010, the current generation of AC regenerators was launched and carry the model PerfectWave.

For high end cables, PS audio offered the "Lab" cable line which was replaced by the "Lab II" line, which was replaced by the "XStream" cable line. Currently the power cable line is the PerfectWave Power Cable line.

PS audio offered the PCA II preamplifier. This was discontinued and replaced with the GCP-200 preamplifier. Each had an optional phono stage and external power supply option.

For amplifiers, PS audio offered the HCA-2 "digital" amplifier. This was a switching amplifier (many would call this a Class D Amplifier) that provide about 150 watts per channel. A more conventional amplifier, the Classic 250, provided 250 Watts per channel. These amplifiers were discontinued and the follow-on amplifiers were all "digital" type amplifiers from the GCA line, which had flexibility in the number of channels or number of watts per channel desired.

2014–present
In recent years the company has grown dramatically in size, product range, and presence. The DirectStream DAC, launched in 2014, brought unique technologies to a DAC field crowded with similar chip-based solutions. Designer Ted Smith created a DAC based upon an FPGA (field-programmable gate array) which would allow owners to download and install no-cost firmware/OS upgrades which improve the unit's performance over time, and ensure that it does not become obsolete. As of July, 2019, the company has offered nine OS upgrades; recent ones have been named after "fourteeners", Colorado peaks which top 14,000 feet in height. The most recent of these is "Snowmass", released in November, 2018. The DirectStream also converts all inputs to DSD for processing; in Snowmass, signals are converted to 20 x the nominal SACD rate (56.338Mhz) and then converted back down to quad rate DSD (11.2896 MHz), with the output stage being a passive low-pass filter. Thousands of DirectStream DACs have been sold, with many in use in recording studios and as reference components by reviewers.

Sprout, a compact integrated amplifier featuring a phono stage, Bluetooth, and a headphone amp, was introduced in a Kickstarter campaign in 2014; subsequently, thousands of units were sold. In 2018 a second generation unit, Sprout100, was introduced; the name reflected the increased power output of 100 watts/channel into 4 ohms. Other improvements included a fully asynchronous DAC that can handle 384/24 PCM or double rate DSD; dedicated subwoofer output; optional bass boost; high-quality, metal remote control; analog RCA inputs and outputs; and a TOSLINK optical input.

Since 2015, PS has released three amplification products designed by industry veteran Bascom H. King, under the line name of BHK Signature. During more than 40 years in audio, King has designed products for Infinity, Marantz, Conrad Johnson, Constellation, and Audeze, among many others, and the BHK Signature line represents the culmination of all his experience and knowledge. The BHK Signature Preamplifier input stage features two 12AU7 dual triode vacuum tubes, which act as a zero-feedback balanced input amplification pair. Volume is controlled by a combination of an input stepped attenuator, built around the highest quality passive components for coarse volume adjustments, after which the actual gain of the vacuum tube is controlled, for finer steps. The control is designed to have no sonic signature of its own. The unit's output stage is a high-bias class-A MOSFET design that is unaffected by cable and power amplifier interface challenges. The BHK Pre also includes a headphone amp possessing extremely low/near zero output impedance, zero feedback, and featuring discrete MOSFET circuitry.

There are two amplifier models in the BHK Signature line: the Stereo 250 and Mono 300. Both utilize vacuum tube input stages and MOSFET outputs; the Stereo 250 produces 250 watts/per channel into an 8Ω loudspeaker, 500 watts/channel into 4Ω, and is stable into 2Ω. The Mono 300 produces 300 watts into 8Ω, 600 into 4Ω and more than 1,000 watts into 2Ω. The Mono 300 doubles the output current with half the impedance of the stereo model, by doubling every internal component of the 250 into one unit: double tubes, double power supplies, transistors, capacitors and resistors.

The high-value Stellar line was introduced in 2017, designed to bring PS Audio performance to lower-priced, full-sized components. The line was launched with three products: the Gain Cell DAC/preamp. the S300 stereo amp, and the M700 mono amps. The Gain Cell DAC is a moderately-priced combination DAC and preamp that also incorporates a high-performance headphone amp; the S300 produces 140 watts per channel into 8Ω; 300 watts per channel into 4Ω; and is stable into a 2Ω load. The M700 offers a measurable increase in performance that is immediately audible, is the least-expensive amplifier listed in Class A of Stereophile magazines Recommended Components list, and is also one of the most powerful. Its 350 watts into 8Ω, 700 watts into 4Ω, and stability into a 2Ω load ensure that the M700 can drive any loudspeaker. In March 2019, the Stellar P3 Power Plant was introduced, bringing PS Power Regenerator power technology to a lower price-point. A Stellar phono preamp will be introduced in Q3 of 2019, and a Stellar integrated amplifier will be released in 2020.

The Power Plant line of power regenerators has been periodically improved. Newer models consist of the P12, P15, and P20 Power Plants, differing primarily in their power-handling capacity and number of outlets. All three models utilize FPGA-based DSD sine wave generators. Both the P12 and P20 are listed in Stereophile's Recommended Components list.

At Rocky Mountain Audio Fest in October 2018, PS exhibited the final prototype loudspeakers created by the late Arnie Nudell, founder of both Infinity Systems and Genesis Technologies and longtime friend of and mentor to PS Audio. These speakers featured several characteristic Nudell design features: dual servo-controlled, powered woofers; a cone mid-bass coupler; a ribbon linesource midrange; and a line array of spiral ribbon tweeters. While these design points do not necessarily reflect how future PS Audio loudspeakers will be designed, they do serve as a basis for experimentation and developments.

At Axpona in April, 2019, PS showed an initial prototype of the AN3 loudspeaker, intended to be the smallest of the AN line of speakers inspired by Arnie Nudell's work. Development continues in the AN line, which will eventually consist of the AN3, the smallest; the AN2, larger and more elaborate; and the AN1, a full-scale assault upon the state of the art, along the lines of the legendary Infinity IRS V. Less-expensive speakers are intended to be introduced below the AN line: a Stellar line, also consisting of 3 models; and at least one Sprout loudspeaker, designed to be compatible with the Sprout 100 in both appearance and capabilities.

The company's outreach has greatly increased in recent years, by way of co-founder/CEO Paul McGowan's Daily Posts; his "Ask Paul" videos on YouTube; and Copper, a twice-monthly webzine devoted to music and audio that appears on the PS Audio website. PS Audio products have won many awards worldwide, including Editors' Choice awards from Stereophile and The Absolute Sound magazines; since 2017, PS has had more products on Stereophile's Recommended Component lists than any other electronics manufacturer.

title: PS Audio


text: Talk:Hun Sen

title: Talk:Hun Sen


text:
User talk:Rahman79

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Welcome, newcomer!

Here are some useful tips to ease you into the Wikipedia experience:

 * First, take a look at the Wikipedia Tutorial, and perhaps dabble a bit in the test area.
 * When you have some free time, take a look at the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines. They can come in very handy!
 * Remember to use a neutral point of view!
 * If you need any help, feel free to post a question at the Help Desk
 * Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Also, here are some odds and ends that I find useful from time to time:

 * Policy Library
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Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can most easily reach me by posting on my talk page.

You can sign your name on any page by typing 4 tildes, likes this: ~~~~.

Best of luck, and have fun!

ClockworkSoul 09:06, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Bangladesh
Thanks for experimenting with Wikipedia. Your test worked, and has been reverted or removed. Please use the sandbox for any other tests you want to do. Take a look at the welcome page if you would like to learn more about contributing to our encyclopedia. Thanks. -- ClockworkSoul 09:09, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Please stop adding nonsense to Wikipedia. It is considered vandalism. If you were just trying to experiment, then use the sandbox instead. Thank you. -- ClockworkSoul 09:19, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Rahman79


text:
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Ballard minutia

Ballard minutia was proposed for deletion. This page is an archive of the discussion about the proposed deletion. This page is no longer live. Further comments should be made on the article's talk page rather than here so that this page is preserved as an historic record. The result of the debate was

Ballard minutia
Several non-encyclopedic articles related to one school. I have not listed the article about the school here, but only the ancillary articles: Ballard Baseball Ballard Basketball Brandon Bender Doug Hash Greg Gilbert. Instead of merge/redirect, I recommend outright deletion. SWAdair | Talk 09:07, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC) Delete more and more about less and less. ping 06:10, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete. utcursch 10:51, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)
 * Merge/Undecided. Of course the whole string of articles should be merged. Is it a keep or a delete after that? I'm not sure. Can somebody who knows about basketball tell if these accomplishments are (slightly) notable? Sander123 13:10, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete Cdc 15:38, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete Wyss 19:04, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete, non-notable. [[User:Livajo|Ливай | ☺]] 02:08, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Delete --fvw *  19:14, 2004 Dec 16 (UTC)

This page is now preserved as an archive of the debate and, like some other VfD subpages, is no longer 'live'. Subsequent comments on the issue, the deletion or on the decision-making process should be placed on the relevant 'live' pages. Please do not edit this page.


text:
Talk:Space elevator/Archive 3

Metadiscussion:this whole talk page is not as messy as it used to be.
Metadiscussion:this whole talk page has become a colossal mess. (User:Bryan Derksen)

Boy, hasn't it. How about wiping archiving the whole thing and starting over, with a set of disputed topics, e.g., ==marginal_cost/kg via an Edwards skyhook==, ==... via an advanced elevator==, ==what is the minimum traffic level needed to justify an elevator?== How about taking longer turns, with sceptics and boosters posting on alternate days?

But it seems to me that webpages are suboptimal for presenting multiple involved discussions with multiple participants. People insert and/or append responses, and the ::: thing is quickly overloaded. How about moving the discussion to  sci.space.tech  or some such? I'd be much easier to keep the threads and subthreads straight, and we could get some new participants, with maybe some new perspectives. It's not true that all knowledge is contained in wikipedia (not yet, anyway). --wwoods 08:06, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

 * I very nearly did that yesterday, I had the page nearly cleaned off into /Archive 2 in edit windows but I chickened out before pressing "save page" because I didn't want to be quite that bold. :) However, since I take this as a "seconding" of the idea, I think I feel more confident in doing that now. I'm going to move the bulk of this talk into Archive 2, and if there are unresolved issues that get moved with it I suggest that the proponents of those issues please restate them in a more organized way. Also, in future when this page gets too long let's be more careful about how it gets trimmed down; we shouldn't be snipping out bits and pieces of discussions, instead leaving or removing them whole-cloth. Bryan 15:27, 12 May 2004 (UTC)

 * By all means include a general comparison with rockets here. But don't spend whole paragraphs exploring the details of rocketry economics behind those general figures, instead say "for a detailed breakdown of these costs, see rocketry" and put them over there. If there's disputes over those details, then talk:rocket would be the appropriate place to work them out. Bryan 00:26, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

I moved stuff relevant to rockets over to Talk:Rocket, as suggested by Bryan. I hope some of it might be useful enough to move to the Rocket article. -- DavidCary 14:50, 13 May 2004 (UTC)

I moved stuff relevant to rockets over to Talk:Rocket. Again. I moved stuff relevant to the Van Allen radiation belt over to Talk:Van Allen radiation belt. Please edit those talk pages and move the facts out into the articles where they belong. Thank you. -- DavidCary 10:22, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

Economics: Where did these numbers come from?
I moved all the discussion of economics to Talk:Space elevator economics. -- DavidCary 18:51, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Rocketry Capital Costs
(moved to Talk:Rocket)

Reversions of Wolfkeeper's Contributions
I have read Wolfkeeper's references and they seem as authoritative as any produced here. Certainly a lot has been said by others without references being produced. It seems to me profoundly wrong to remove information from the page which is backed up by references. Not only wrong but against NPOV Wikipedia policy. Rei you must find another way than just reverting back past info that does not agree with your POV. Read NPOV. Paul Beardsell 00:26, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

Rei, you have now reverted 4 times - against Wikipedia policy - and this is the last comment provided: ''It's not a POV, it's false "facts" which have not been defended on talk. Until they are defended, it is information that has been challenged without rebuttal.'' What seems to qualify as a "false fact" is something not said by you. Wolfkeeper has provided references. Your so-called rebuttal, in the above section, is without a citation to back it up. There is nothing for Wolfkeeper to defend - he has provided references. You have supplied some text which may or may not be true. References please. Paul Beardsell 00:41, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

 * False information is not a POV. It is false information.  Should I go over to the page on the Moon and take the "Point of View" that it is actually an alien space ship plotting to destroy the world, and then start reverting it when people say that it isn't?

 * No. But you would be asked to provide a reference.  The reference would be subject to scrutiny.  And your moon POV is plainly false and would be very much a minority POV, whereas here, in this dispute, you must think there is a conspiracy against your POV:  How can so many be so wrong, you must be thinking.  Paul Beardsell 01:21, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, I think the correct wikipedian way is to include both POV. Deleting other people's opinions is considered gauche at best. It also says you are insecure enough in your own arguments that you don't think your arguments will be believed, it's a sign of immaturity (IMHO). Rei is actually holding it up here as if it is a good thing... small wonder she failed the admin vote I think; she isn't feeling the wiki, she so isn't.

 * His reference uses outdated dollar and payload figures in many cases. Some of the new rocket systems which should be considered "under development" (such as the Long March 2E, which is still struggling with a lousy 71% success rate) currently are cheaper than 10k$, but the shuttle would be that cheap also if we didn't inspect the tiles each turnaround  ;)

 * Here we have you admitting a lower cost than you will allow in the article: Make the reliability point in the article if you will.  But it seems you are not being consistent.  Paul Beardsell 01:09, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

 * As for citations, for God's sake, Psb, learn to use google and site:astronautix.com. I'll do your work for you this time , but you have to do it yourself next time.   And you're hardly one to talk about wikipedia reversion policy. Rei 00:48, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Rei, it is your job to backup your own argument. I cannot see how your refs back up your POV.  Perhaps a page or a line number?  Or a quote.  Paul Beardsell 01:14, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

I have once broken the reversion policy but once it was pointed out to me I never did it again. How long have you been aware of the policy, Rei? Paul Beardsell 01:04, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

That the information is or is not false is the question. Your argument is circular. Paul Beardsell 01:04, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

I refer you to the Third Commandment. Paul Beardsell 01:04, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

LEO transfer orbit
One of the candidate versions of the article now says that an orbital launch to 180km at 51 degrees inclination is a "LEO transfer orbit" - an unusual term! An orbit at 180km altitude is a good LEO. If any part of it is higher than 180km then that is even better. But the 51 degrees refers to the angle at which the satellite crosses the equator - it does not make the orbit elliptical. Paul Beardsell 00:54, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

It's gone now, but for clarity: If 180km altitude can be attained at 51 degrees then, given a better launch site a higher altitude can be attained (or more payload lifted) for the same cost. Paul Beardsell 01:50, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

More than that: reducing the payload size slightly raises the orbit, and only slightly worsens the cost/kg ratio.

Basically this term 'leo transfer orbit' is spurious unless it's at seriously low altitude (like 100km). Any orbit that goes around the earth atleast once is LEO by definition. Wolfkeeper

Van Allan belt problem
What's the solution to this? On the face of it we have mutually exclusive solutions. The focus in the Economics section is the Edwards proposal, an up-only elevator, but the proposed solution (in this article) to the Van Allan belt problem is portable shielding shifted about on an up-down elevator. An up-down elevator reduces by a large factor the payload capacity (it seems difficult or impossible to have multiple climbers and decenders simultaneously - difficult enough that Edwards did not want to solve it) and thereby the economics are significantly affected. Maybe we send cargo only and the astronauts go by rocket? Paul Beardsell 13:49, 25 May 2004 (UTC)

Yes, my understanding is that the Edwards plan for the first space elevator is a up-only, cargo-only elevator, without any shielding. -- DavidCary 10:22, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

(details moved to Talk:Van Allen radiation belt)

General Editing Principles
Look, houserules. You can stick more or less anything you want in the Space Elevator section; but you'd sure as heck better have a citation; no citation and I'm unilaterally editing it out again. The point of a wikipedia is you don't 'make shit up'. Some people appear to be doing this.

So I'm currently expecting a citation to Rei's scheme for sheilding the cars- if she can't produce it I'm removing it. (I don't actually think this scheme works- the worst of the belts are at low altitude anyway, where the cable is weakest).

As for deleting other people's contributions; if you have a *well* respected source, then it's barely ok, but you're better off adding in the contrary citation. And it had better be a primary source, not some airy-fairy 'rockets are all so inefficient and expensive opinion piece' or 'space elevators are impossible' or some such. Got it? Wolfkeeper

Meaning of "reality"
Recently the 2nd para was changed to say the SE "might become a reality in a little over a decade". This calls into question the meaning of the word "reality": It does not mean "realistic proposition". I reverted to "might become a reality in decades to come". Paul Beardsell 20:25, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

Actually that was me; I had neglected to log on. Apologies.

Let me explain. The only known showstopper for the space elevator is the cable.

This is a fierce research area for a whole host of reasons, not just for space elevators, but suspension bridges and a massive list of other possible uses of carbon nanotubes; including better and cheaper rockets :-)

If the cable technology was to appear in the next two years; that would not particularly surprise me; the current record of 10 cm at 63 GPa is *incredibly* close to being enough; the theoretical strength estimates are about 120 Gpa right now. OTOH if it didn't turn up for a decade or ever; that wouldn't surprise either.

Brad Edwards has a project plan that shows going from zero to elevator in (IRC) 14 years. It seems reasonable that it won't take much less than this, even if some sort of space race happened, but of course could take a lot longer.

So this is not necessarily decades off. So I think this language is justified.

Besides it's only the opening paragraph, having a few 'could's and 'maybe's and 'might's is fine. I don't agree with 'would's and 'will's though. --Wolfkeeper 22:39, 26 May 2004 (UTC)

C'mon now: Let's at least say something in the introduction with which we all can agree. If we are not going to have the bland version I propose then, Wolfkeeper, at least you mustn't delete Rei's references as this is something of which you yourself complain. Paul Beardsell 20:22, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

Yes, I certainly can see why you are complaining, and I'm not terribly unwilling to change it back, but I think that the opening paragraph *must* be positive, we want the reader to read the rest of the article; rather than just instantly dismissing the idea as silly. I made it clear that the people who think that are optimistic, and I personally do believe that the seed elevator might become a reality in a little over a decade. It probably won't; but it might; I'd be betting on 20 years even if the cable popped up tomorrow by the time it was financed; even the channel tunnel took 200 years to complete. It really critically only depends on the cable technology; the rest looks doable. Whether it stays up; more than 5 minutes I don't know. The one thing financially in it's favour is that people *love* the idea of a elevator; so financing might well be twisted out of the scrouge-like politicians or some rich entrepreneur.--Wolfkeeper 21:13, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

The showstoppers are not currently limited to just the cable. We have to be able to move LEO satellites. Paul Beardsell 20:22, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Huh? What satellites? What are you talking about? Please explain--Wolfkeeper 21:13, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Have you not even read the article that you're editing? (It would make a lot of sense, since you've been adding in a lot of redundancy in places).

 * You seem to take everything very personally and then you insult people- whilst assuming that other people do not take your insulting and offensive behaviours personally. Given that; you are likely to find your time in wikipedia very frustrating and annoying I think.--Wolfkeeper 01:07, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Let me sum up: Every object in orbit between LEO and GEO has an orbit that will *eventually* intercept the space elevator.

 * Oh that. But, because the elevator moves, this doesn't constitute a show stopper; does anyone have a showstopper?--Wolfkeeper 01:07, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

 * While this collision will be a relatively rare event, the number of objects in space is quite high, and has been constantly increasing. Consequently, either the elevator has to move (as per Edwards), or all of the aforementioned objects must have maneuvering capability (of which many don't, especially defunct satellites and debris). Rei 21:23, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes, yes, it moves; and sometimes it falls down anyway; which incidentally makes the economics worse, since it becomes maintenance not capital costs.

 * Incidentally some research I've read shows that the type of lasers for powering elevator cars can do double duty for clearing away space junk- if you can target it; and if it isn't cloudy that day.

 * Sorry that you find it insulting when people have to explain to you the parts of the article that you didn't bother to read before editing.

 * Sorry if you think that's what happened.

 * I hope it bothers you that other people are having to read for you.

 * Obviously that's what would happen when I asked what he meant when he said: "We have to be able to move LEO satellites.". I hope you didn't do any totally unnecessary reading Rei, that would be too sad. Everytime Rei does unnecessary reading... an Angel in heaven... dies.

 * Not every elevator design is designed to move; many are stationary.

 * And it's unclear why they would be practical; hoytethers are not a panacea.

 * Edwards' design happens to move. As per lasers, a space broom has notably different requirements,

 * No, not really.

 * and the elevator needs its power (that's what the laser is there for).

These objects won't be over the horizon for long; and if it is predicted to hit another object you'd do much better to take it out early than try to dodge the tiny fragments.

 * And your "sometimes it falls down" remark is just silly;

 * Not so; a sufficiently large micrometeorite will cut the cable entirely; also upon being struck the cable will tend to explode; some of the shrapnel will cause secondary damage.

 * all designs call for engineering within a tolerance so that this doesn't occur.

 * Not so. At best you can design it not to happen more often than every 100 years on average; or some such number. Same way they design buildings for a hundred year storm.

 * You might as well argue against building bridges because "sometimes they fall down". Rei 16:37, 28 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Amazing how you managed to make it sound as if we weren't on agreement on this point.

Economics detached from main article
I moved the economics section to space elevator economics and replaced the section in this article with a short summary. This is not an attempt to get rid of the current dispute by hiding it in some obscure place. I moved it because 1) the section was getting very detailed, and 2) this article is too long and should preferrably be partitioned even further. The fact that the economics dispute can now get a talk page of its own is merely a fortunate side effect :)

Feel free to improve my summary. It was a quick work and doesn't do as good a job as it should do. But try to keep excessive details out of it. The separate article can now be expanded to include every conceivable cost detail, this summary should be kept brief and abstract so a casual reader can get a good overview without getting confused. I find the current economics article rather confusing to read myself. Fredrik 22:46, 27 May 2004 (UTC)

Incorrigible optimists
See what the incorrigible optimists have been reading. Paul Beardsell 00:50, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Perhaps you could point out what the relevance of this link to space elevators is? There doesn't seem to be any. Bryan 05:56, 29 May 2004 (UTC)

Well, it seemed to me that there is a certain parallel between the naive optimism which is being gently but appreciatively poked at that web site and the barely-a-decade optimism here. Failing which I hoped that the web site would be appreciated for its own sake by those who have a sense of humour, regardless of their position on the optimism scale. It can't be that a defining attribute of the space elevator enthusiast is a lack of a sense of humour? Paul Beardsell 00:45, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Perhaps my sense of humor is worn thin on this particular topic, but my sense of irony isn't. I note that most of the "incorrigibly optimistic" methods portrayed here are rocket-related. :) Bryan 03:02, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * The link doesn't even appear to work... 404?

 * Works for me. You are clicking on "reading" in the 1st para of this section?  Paul Beardsell 01:31, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * Ah got it- Mozilla gives 404, but Internet Explorer gives a cheesey 1950's style page. Kinda weird that the two browsers give different results to that extent.

 * Works on Mozilla (1.6) for me. Paul Beardsell 16:06, 30 May 2004 (UTC)

 * FWIW I'm using Mozilla (1.7b)- don't know why that would matter. Reproducibly works with IE version 6. Reproducibly not working with Mozilla 1.7b under windows XP.

carbon nanotubes

 * Hmm. In all fairness you'll note that space elevator designs currently rely on currently non existent [ carbon nanotube ] cables, whereas rocket cost reductions mainly rely on launching more often, using better engineering and architectures, using actual past experience; and avoiding being part of a national program as they usually don't care so much about money. Wolfkeeper

I moved discussion of carbon nanotubes to the Talk:carbon nanotube article -- DavidCary 18:51, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)

characteristic length
Someone needs to fix the engineering discussion in the Cable section. The feasability of constructing a space elevator isn't determined by the material's tensile strength, it's determined by the ratio between the material's tensile strength and density. If someone discovers 120 GPa Unobtanium tomorrow, it'll still be useless for a beanstalk if it's as dense as gold. One of the reasons people are so excited about carbon nanotubes is the combination of low density with high tensile strength.

 * Yes, I agree. Since the "strength/density ratio" is the critical number, that's what we should be comparing between these materials. Another name for this number is the "characteristic length". Is it OK if I quote http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/~hpm/project.archive/1976.skyhook/1982.articles/skymes in the article ? -- DavidCary

A nice intuitive way to express the strength to weight ratio of a material is called "characteristic length". It is the length of material fashioned into a constant cross-section rope that can just support itself when hung from one end in a uniform one earth gravity field. (The formula is tensile-strength/(density*1g)). Graphite, with its strong covalent carbon-carbon bonds is the best actually existing material. Its theoretical characteristic length is several thousand km. A metastable metallic version of hydrogen that can exist at room temperature might be quite a bit better because hydrogen has much less dead weight, but its existence is only conjectured. . Later editions of the CRC handbook have a NASA originated table labelled "Mechanical and Physical Properties of Whiskers". The indicated whiskers are actual laboratory grown, millimeter length, single crystal rods of various substances, whose strength and density can be measured. The measured properties give the following characteristic lengths: . Graphite whiskers	961 km Al2O3 whiskers		527 km Iron whiskers		162 km Si3N4 whiskers		455 km SiC whiskers		704 km Si whiskers		337 km. These numbers are about 1/5 to 1/10 of the theoretical limits for the substances. . By comparison we have todays engineering materials: .       Bulk aluminum		  10 km        Bulk iron		  11 km        Bulk steel		  40 km        Nylon			  88 km        Fiberglass		  98 km        Kevlar			 195 km. As stated in my previous message, a strength five times that of Kevlar would make earth elevator cables of varoius varieties possible. This means a characteristic length of about 1000 km; a bulk material with the graphite whisker strength above would do fine.

-- http://www.frc.ri.cmu.edu/~hpm/project.archive/1976.skyhook/1982.articles/skymes

 * It would be really, really nice if the above materials: aluminum, iron, steel, nylon, fiberglass, kevlar, silicon (Si), graphite, sapphire (Al2O3), silicon nitride (Si3N4), silicon carbide (SiC) -- as well as nanotubes -- had both the numbers we need for this calculation (tensile strength and density) in their respective articles. Unfortunately, most of them *only* list density; and nanotubes only lists tensile strength. -- DavidCary

 * Tensile strength has a table. Assuming tensile strength of 60 GPa and a density of 1.5 g/cm³ gives a characteristic length of about 4,000 km. Another figure of merit is the characteristic velocity, sqrt(strength/density), which is not intuitive, but isn't tied to Earth's gravity either. Other refs:  --wwoods 23:00, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Why, in the quoted material above, is a characteristic length of 1000km good enough for a cable much, much longer than that? The first few thousand km of which will be in a gravity close to what we experience here on the ground. Paul Beardsell 04:40, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC) From your last reference I quote:

The support lengths assume no tapering. He figures tapering would be used, but a safety margin is also required, so they cancel out. The necessary support length for a Terran beanstalk is about 4,940 km.. He mentions that graphite whisker is already strong enough for a Martian beanstalk, where the support length is 975 km.

Paul Beardsell 04:44, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * The optimal taper (ignoring saftey margin) is exponential; the characteristic length is the length over which the diameter must increase by a factor of e. So even with constant gravity, you can get away with a few characteristic lengths before your cable becomes outrageously huge.  (I assume this is part of what went into the 4940 km above; at such lengths decreasing effective gravity can help too.) --Andrew 04:51, 14 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Drag
The "Launching into outer space" describes drag on the cable (west ward0 when mass climbs. But it doesn't explain how the cable katches up after imparting orbit velocity to the payload. Pud 23:59, 25 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Yes it does. "This angular momentum is taken from Earth's own rotation." and "The horizontal component of the tension in the cable applies a tangental pull on the payload, accelerating it eastward. Conversely, the cable pulls on Earth's surface, insignificantly slowing it." - basically, the rotation of Earth pulls the elevator back up to its original momentum again, infinitesimally slowing down Earth's rotation in the process. I'll add the direction of the pull to the article, hopefully clarifying this. Bryan 00:29, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * What is to keep the cable from being continually pulled back as more and more mass is lifted, what acts to straigenten it out and keep it verticle? Pud 00:38, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * The centrifugal force acting on the counterweight at the end of the tether. Since the elevator's center of gravity is slightly farther out than geostationary orbit, the elevator acts a lot like a rope being held onto by a spinning figure skater; it "wants" to stick straight outward, and if it gets nudged to the side it will swing back out again on its own. Bryan 02:46, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * How about; "the verticle componant of the cable tension causes the cable to return to verticle after accelerating the launch mass" ? Pud 00:45, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Sounds good, I'll work that in. Bryan 02:46, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * It won't necessarily return to the vertical--if there's a constant (net) flow of mass along the cable, the Coriolis force'll impose a permanent incline to the cable. Not much--it's like a rope being held by a spinning skater, along which ants are crawling. The tilt sets one limit on the throughput of the system, but it's not a problem, as long as the center of gravity isn't pulled down below GEO. Of course, by varying the movement of mass along the cable you can make it swing and shimmy; that's the way proposed to avoid some collisions. --wwoods 08:45, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

 * Another good point to work in :) Bryan 16:52, 26 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Clarification requested
Moved discussion of various types of tethers, and what to name each one, to Talk:tether propulsion. --DavidCary 08:52, 11 Jul 2004 (UTC)

it seems the whole article uses metric, except for the "Building an elevator" section. i wanted to change it, but i realized i have no clue which ton is used. can somebody try to find out, and then change it to fit the rest of the article?

Economics article factual dispute still ongoing?
There's been a factual accuracy dispute tag over at Space elevator economics for two months without any editing being done on either the article or the talk: page, does anyone know whether the dispute is still ongoing? I asked in that article's talk page too, but I figured this page was more likely to be bookmarked by interested people. Bryan 18:34, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

I think pretty much everyone got bored by the bickering and people claiming that white was black, or that only orange is important. I know I got bored. -WolfKeeper

title: Talk:Space elevator/Archive 3


text:
User talk:Haros

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Rajasthan map
Thanks for map. I have updated Rajasthan article with it. All credit for the map should go to Nichalp who created the map and got it featured. Please use the blank map as the source going forward and attribute him on the license. The plan is to use this same map for all states, cities etc. I had loaded maps for Tamil Nadu, Kerala, Assam and West Bengal already. You can use them. Thanks again, Ganeshk  ( talk ) 23:04, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I know, and I have credited him. Haros 23:17, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I noticed you had credited him (a bit late though). :) BTW, I checked out Norway wiki, you are doing a great job. Ganeshk  ( talk ) 23:24, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I improved the credit, though I'm not sure what You mean by a bit late. I use the Information template where the source comes as a second line. I have just started with the states, thus it is a bit premature to call it a great job, but thanks anyway. Haros 23:42, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I meant, I noticed the credit after I left a message at your page. Sorry for the confusion. - Ganeshk  ( talk ) 23:51, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Hi Haros! Thanks for the message. :) Just one question: Have you updated the meta data? If you're using Inkscape, go to  and click on the   tab to update the text. Regards,  =Nichalp   «Talk»=  15:23, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

 * I used Emacs. That way I copied the exact borderdata - zoom in and you will see. I changed the filename, but I can see there are other data I perhaps should have changed (date & description). You are still the main creator. It was late at night and I was pleased to have finished the map. I have a question to you too. How did you get the initial data on the borderpositions. Just curious. Haros 16:57, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

location maps
Would you consider dual licensing your edits to location map and related template under the cc-by 2.5? This way I could use them on the english wikinews. Happy editing. Bawolff 00:51, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

 * As my edit was a interwiki link I cannot see that my edit would prevent you anyway, but apart from that I hav no problem with giving you my blessing. My 22 added characters may be considered also licensed under cc-by 2.5 (or later). Haros 16:54, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Re India maps
Let me think over it and get back you in a day or two. V. busy outside wiki. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  21:28, 17 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Indian districts
Hi!

Sorry for the delay in contacting you. Was busy with RL deadlines. Ok so here goes.
 * 1) I suggest you wait for sometime before working on Indian districts. There is some controversy on the number of Indian districts. Wikipedia talk:Noticeboard for India-related topics has an ongoing discussion. In addition, you might want to see User:Nichalp/districts.
 * 2) User:Ganeshk has a nice bot that wrote articles for all Indian town, cities, and villages. You might want to contact him for using the bot on the Scandinavian-language wikipedias.
 * 3)  We have lower scaled images for Indian districts. See Odisha for an example. You might wan tto use this instead.
 * 4) Also, this is a suggestion: Since the base map is SVG, we could have bot automatically create a new file, fill the district with colours (based on the id), and automatically upload it to wikipedia. It would save a lot of your time.

Let me know your thoughts. Regards, =Nichalp   «Talk»=  18:06, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

 * Sure, as you wish. Although I still think using a bot to do the hard work can be really helpful. If you do come across any discrepancies, on the list I made, and you have, do let me know. BTW some distrikts  such as Mumbai City do not have a hovedstad and others such as Bilaspur need disambiguation. =Nichalp   «Talk»=  19:30, 20 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Districts of Madhya Pradesh
Thanks for pointing out the discrepancy. The maps would have to be updated, yes, but as we have no base maps of the newly-carved districts, I am hesitant to proceed any further as it would be my original research. For now we would have to live with the old maps till the government can release a new map on their website.

You mention that Norwegian readers would need a map of India with states such as Orissa highlighted. I have a simple solution that you can use instead of the template. Edit Image:India-states-numbered.svg to highlight only Orissa. Then, import the image as a layer to the Orissa district map, and scale down the resolution.

We are going to have a big problem with maintenance of all the maps of Indian districts. So, I'm thinking of bot work to do this in the long run. Each time a district is created, it would be easier to change a reference map, and have a bot that runs from toolserver update all district locator maps.

Thanks for the heads-up on the district list. Feel free to update my list if you want. =Nichalp  «Talk»=  14:45, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks!
Thank you for the fast response! TOW talk  06:16, 7 June 2012 (UTC)

Credo Reference Update & Survey (your opinion requested)
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Books and Bytes Volume 1, Issue 1, October 2013 by , Greetings Wikipedia Library members! Welcome to the inaugural edition of Books and Bytes, TWL’s monthly newsletter. We're sending you the first edition of this opt-in newsletter, because you signed up, or applied for a free research account: HighBeam, Credo, Questia, JSTOR, or Cochrane. To receive future updates of Books and Bytes, please add your name to the subscriber's list. There's lots of news this month for the Wikipedia Library, including new accounts, upcoming events, and new ways to get involved... New positions: Sign up to be a Wikipedia Visiting Scholar, or a Volunteer Wikipedia Librarian Wikipedia Loves Libraries: Off to a roaring start this fall in the United States: 29 events are planned or have been hosted. New subscription donations: Cochrane round 2; HighBeam round 8; Questia round 4... Can we partner with NY Times and Lexis-Nexis?? New ideas: OCLC innovations in the works; VisualEditor Reference Dialog Workshop; a photo contest idea emerges News from the library world: Wikipedian joins the National Archives full time; the Getty Museum releases 4,500 images; CERN goes CC-BY Announcing WikiProject Open: WikiProject Open kicked off in October, with several brainstorming and co-working sessions New ways to get involved: Visiting scholar requirements; subject guides; room for library expansion and exploration Read the full newsletter ''Thanks for reading! All future newsletters will be opt-in only. Have an item for the next issue? Leave a note for the editor on the Suggestions page. --The Interior 22:09, 27 October 2013 (UTC)''

The Wikipedia Library Survey
As a subscriber to one of The Wikipedia Library's programs, we'd like to hear your thoughts about future donations and project activities in this brief survey. Thanks and cheers, Ocaasit | c 16:04, 9 December 2013 (UTC)

Request translation Isabelle de Charrière
Hello Haros, Could you write /translate the article of Isabelle de Charriere or someone else for the Norwegian and/or the Danish Wikipedia? That would be appreciated. Boss-well63 (talk) 13:01, 23 August 2019 (UTC)

title: User talk:Haros


text:
User talk:Bimal~enwiki

Welcome to the Wikipedia
Welcome, newcomer!

Here are some useful tips to ease you into the Wikipedia experience:

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 * Policy Library
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Feel free to ask me anything the links and talk pages don't answer. You can most easily reach me by posting on my talk page.

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ClockworkSoul 09:08, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Wikipedia:Indian wikipedians' notice board.
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Renamed
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title: User talk:Bimal~enwiki


text:
Talk:Black Ruthenia

Old talk
ЧЕРНАЯ РУСЬ, название,не упоминаемое ни одним дошедшим до нас источником,принято относить в XIII-XIV вв. к области, лежавшей в бассейне верхнего течения Немана с городами Городно (Гродно), Новгородком, Слонимом, Волковыйском, Несвижем, Турийском (Турец), Здитовом. До XIII в. Черная Русь, возможно, входила в состав Полоцкого княжества. В 1240-х так называемая "Черная Русь" по Ипатьевской летописи Литва,являлась вотчиной князя Миндовга,известного так же под именем "Изяслав Новогрудский" со столицей в Новогрудке,который по летописи назван "королевским Новогрудком". В 1250-х,как сообщает летопись она была завоёвана Даниилом Галицким-"Захватил всю землю Литовскую и Нальшанскую-Гродно,Волковыск,Слоним-всю вотчину земли их,и пришёл Миндовг просить мира "отдавшему Черную Русь своему сыну Роману Данииловичу, за которым она оставалась в течение нескольких лет. Затем Черную Русь вновь оккупировал Миндовг. После его смерти (в 1263) временно находилась в составе Галицко-Волынского княжества. В XIV в. Черная Русь составляла основное ядро Великого княжества Литовского —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Mikkalai (talk • contribs) 11:08, 15 December 2004.

 * What's the purpose to put a text in another language than English on this page ?? Moreover, there seem to be a problem with the external link (I just suppressed it): it refers to a suppressed wikipedia page over 'Black Ruthenian language', a language whose existence is contested, see: Talk:Black_Ruthenian_language. Same problem with the French article fr:Tchèrnorusse (discussion: fr:Discuter:Tchèrnorusse --Pylambert 11:49, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
 * For reference. Experts on the topic must know slavic languages. mikka (t) 18:50, 14 August 2005 (UTC)
 * This is an interesting point. This being an open project to which anyone can contribute, and this being the English Wikipedia and there being non-English Wikiepdiae, I wonder if things shouldn't be in English and available to all? There is after all no qualification bar to editing here. I wonder if leaving the Cyrillic and providing the English translation might be a good thing to do? -Splash 23:05, 15 August 2005 (UTC
 * Where did you see me forbidding your editing an article? In wikipedia one may edit articles in math and rocket science while not being a rocket scientist. But this does not mean that you are free to delete texts you don't understand. About providing English translation: that was the whole point. It was left here in hope that someone with good command of both Ru and En will incorporate the info into the article. mikka (t) 00:08, 16 August 2005 (UTC)
 * I see, I understand now. You could ask over at WP:PNT or similar where they'll be sure to help out. I didn't see you forbidding anyone from editing an article, but I thought your comment about experts sounded somewhat "if you're not an expert you don't need to have that translated". That wasn't what you meant, so I understand entirely. -Splash 00:28, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

Removal from talk pages is violation of rules. mikka (t) 21:04, 15 August 2005 (UTC)

 * Looks worth translating properly. It comes verbatim from the well-sourced Encyclopedic Dictionary of the Russian Civilisation at the Russian Sky website, which is no problem as the front page says "Все материалы сервера могут использоваться и распространяться без каких-либо ограничений" - "All materials on the server can be used and be extended without any limitations". Tearlach 13:35, 18 August 2005 (UTC)

OK, I've had a stab at tidying the Babelfish output:

''BLACK RUSSIA was the name applied in the 13th-14th centuries to a region in the basin of the upper flow of the Neman River, with the cities Hrodna, Navahradak, Slonim, Volkovysk, Nesvizh, Turaw and Zditov. In the 13th century Black Russia probably became part of the Polatsk principality. c. Around 1240 Black Russia was taken by the Lithuanian prince Mindaugas. Around 1250 it was recaptured by Danylo of Halych, who returned Black Russia to his son Roman Danylovich, with whom it remained for several years. Then Black Russia was again occupied by Mindaugas. After his death in 1263 it temporarily became part of the Galicia-Volhynia principality. In the XIV century, Black Russia together with Lithuania composed the basic nucleus of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania''.

Does this make sense? There's some confirmation of the chronology here. Tearlach 04:00, 19 August 2005 (UTC)

Factual accuracy tag
Does the article need a "factual accuracy disputed" tag any more? I can't see any current dispute. Tearlach 11:33, 27 October 2005 (UTC) I will mark this article as Original research. I don't understand from where are taken "Flag" and "Coat of arms" of Black Ruthenia? As Black Ruthenia was named not only Neman region. Before writing about coloured Ruthenians I'd recomend some more serious literature, like this one (in Russian) []--82.135.217.87 (talk) 19:38, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

List of rulers
This was removed from the main article in case someone will find it useful:

Rulers

 * -1084 part of The Principality of Włodzimierz Wołyński

 * Capital: HORODNA

 * Rurik-Horodeński

 * 1084-1090s Wsiewołod I Igorevicz (d. aft. 1092)
 * 1090s-1113 Mstisław I Wsiewołodowicz
 * 1113-1142 Wsiewołod Dawydowicz (d. February 1, 1142; m. 1116 Agafia Kijówska)
 * 1142-1159 Boris Wsiewołodowicz (ca 1117 - ca 1169)
 * 1159-1169 Wolodar Hlebowicz (in Minsk 1151-1158, 1165-1167; m. btw. 1136-1139 Ryksa Śląska {d. after December 25, 1155})
 * 1169-1172 Hleb Wsiewołodowicz
 * 1172-1175 Mstisław II Wsiewołodowicz

 * Capital: NOWOHORODOK

 * Gediminids

 * 1175-1183 Erdywił

 * Capital: HORODNA

 * Rurik-Witebski

 * 1183-1185 Iziasław Wasilkowicz
 * 1185 Wsiewołod II Glebowicz (d. 13th century; also in Zasławje and Strejew)

 * Capital: NOWOHORODOK

 * 1185-before 1192 Wasilko Wolodarowicz?

 * Gediminids

 * after 1185–1192 Mingayl
 * 1192–before 1219 Skirmunt
 * after 1192-before 1219 Troniata

 * Capital: HORODNA

 * Rurik-Witebski

 * after 1192-1219 Wasilko Briaczesławicz (also in Witebsk; m. NN, dau. of Rostisław Mstisławicz of Smoleńsk)

 * Capital: NOWOHORODOK

 * 1219-1239 Iziasław Briaczesławicz (d. 1264; also in Witebsk)

 * Rurik-Mindaugas

 * 1239-1254 Vaišvilkas (in The Lithuania 1264-1267)
 * 1254-1258 Roman Daniłowicz (d. after 1258)
 * 1258-1264 Vaišvilkas (d. 1267)

 * 1264-before 1300 part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania

 * Gediminids

 * before 1300-before 1341 Narymont
 * ?-1341 Narymunt
 * 1341-1347 Koriat
 * 1347-before 1381 Woidete (d. after 1362)
 * after 1347-1381 Butaw (d. after 1381)

 * 1381-1384 part of The Grand Duchy of Lithuania

 * 1384-1386 Jurij Czornaruski
 * 1386-1390 Towtiwil
 * 1390-1440 Zygmunt Kiejstutowicz (in Lithuania 1432-1440)
 * 1440-1441 Michał Bolesław Zygmuntowicz (d. 1451)

 * 1441- part of the Grand Duchy of Lithuania

Renata 04:29, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

why is the flag for Black Ruthenia the flag of Wurttemburg which existed centuries later? The file is exactly the same one. Rcduggan 23:48, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Lida
Lida was never part of Black Ruthenia. The castle was built on border land of Lithuania Propria. --Žemėpatis (talk) 23:52, 14 March 2013 (UTC)

title: Talk:Black Ruthenia


text:
User talk:50% Packetloss

JFW | T@lk  09:10, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:50% Packetloss