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Cliff Williams

Clifford Williams (born 14 December 1949) is an English musician, best known as the bassist and backing vocalist of the Australian hard rock band AC/DC. He started his professional music career in 1967 and had previously been in the English groups Home and Bandit. His first studio album with AC/DC was Powerage in 1978. Williams was inducted into the American Rock and Roll Hall of Fame as a member of AC/DC in 2003. Williams announced his retirement from AC/DC in 2016, but returned for their 2020 comeback album Power Up along with band mates Brian Johnson and Phil Rudd. His side projects include benefit concerts.

Early life
Clifford Williams was born on 14 December 1949 in Romford, Essex. In 1961, he moved with his family to Hoylake, Merseyside, where he was influenced by the local Merseybeat movement and decided to become a musician. At the age of 13, he and some friends formed a band. He listed The Rolling Stones, The Who, The Kinks, and blues musicians such as Bo Diddley as influences, and mostly learned to play bass by "listening to records and picking out notes", with his formal training limited to some lessons from a professional bassist in nearby Liverpool. He left school when he was 16 years old, working as an engineer by day and musician by night.

Early career
In 1966, Williams moved to London, where he worked at a demolition site and in supermarkets while playing in various short-lived bands. He met guitarist Laurie Wisefield (later a member of Wishbone Ash) and the two became members of a band, Sugar, which soon broke up. In 1970, Williams and Wisefield joined with singer Mick Stubbs, keyboardist Clive John, and drummer Mick Cook to form the progressive rock group Home. The band signed a recording deal with Epic Records and issued their debut LP, Pause for a Hoarse Horse, in 1971. Home was a supporting act for Jeff Beck, Mott the Hoople, The Faces and Led Zeppelin.

In 1972, Jim Anderson replaced John on keyboards and Home released a self-titled album, featuring their only hit single, "Dreamer", which peaked at No. 41 in the UK album charts. Their next album, The Alchemist, followed in 1973, but did not gain chart success. When British folk singer-songwriter Al Stewart suggested that Home back him on his first American tour in March 1974, Mick Stubbs left the group. The rest of the members became the Al Stewart Band, but split up after the tour. Williams briefly played with the American band Stars before forming Bandit in 1974. Bandit's line-up included vocalist Jim Diamond and drummer Graham Broad (later in Bucks Fizz and Roger Waters's band). The group signed with Arista Records and released a self-titled album in 1977. Bandit also performed as Alexis Korner's backing band on 1977's The Lost Album before disbanding later that year.

AC/DC
Williams considered retiring from music following Bandit's breakup, but one of the group's guitarists, Jimmy Litherland, convinced him to audition for the Australian group AC/DC, who were looking for a bassist after firing Mark Evans shortly after recording their 1977 studio album Let There Be Rock. AC/DC had formed in Australia in 1973 and by mid-1977 the line-up was Malcolm Young on rhythm guitar and backing vocals alongside his brother Angus Young on lead guitar, Phil Rudd on drums and Bon Scott on vocals. Shortly after deciding to audition for the band, Williams saw AC/DC on Top of the Pops and was impressed, describing them as "outrageous".

For his audition, Williams played four jam sessions with the band, and on 27 May 1977 was officially asked to join AC/DC. Angus declared the decision was partially motivated by the bassist's good looks, which the band hoped would attract more women to their concerts. As Williams was replacing an Australian musician, there were issues resulting in problems obtaining a work permit to enter the country. His first performances with AC/DC were in Australia supporting the Let There Be Rock album, with two secret gigs at Sydney's Lifesaver. The album Powerage (1978), produced by Vanda & Young, marked Williams's studio debut. Williams remained in AC/DC from that time onwards until 2016, with only a temporary departure in 1991 as he suffered a kidney infection, during which Paul Greg had to play bass for some North American concerts in the Razors Edge World Tour. In addition to his role as bassist with AC/DC, Williams also contributed backing vocals. He has said that his favourite albums with the band are Powerage and Back in Black. On 7 July 2016, Williams announced his plans to retire from the music industry following AC/DC's Rock or Bust World Tour. He cited his opinion that AC/DC was now "a changed animal" with the recent departures of several core band members; Malcolm Young could no longer contribute due to dementia, Phil Rudd could not tour due to being under house arrest, and Brian Johnson was forced into retirement due to hearing problems. In September 2016, during his last performance with AC/DC at the Wells Fargo Center in Philadelphia, Williams was brought to the front of the stage by Angus Young to take a bow in the middle of "For Those About to Rock (We Salute You)". On September 30, 2020, AC/DC officially confirmed that Williams, along with fellow band mates Brian Johnson and Phil Rudd, have rejoined the band. Though he performed with the band at the Power Trip Festival in October 2023, Williams is not currently touring with AC/DC on their Power Up Tour, with Chris Chaney performing in his place.

Side projects
In 1984, Williams played bass and backing vocals on Adam Bomb's song "I Want My Heavy Metal", for the album Fatal Attraction. During AC/DC's hiatus in the 2000s, Williams joined Bosnian musician Emir Bukovica's band Emir & Frozen Camels. The group recorded the album San in 2002 and played in some European clubs. In 2005, Williams and AC/DC singer Johnson played in a hurricane relief event in Florida, promoted by the John Entwistle Foundation. There Williams met drummer Steve Luongo, president of the foundation and former member of the John Entwistle band. Luongo later brought Williams, Johnson, and guitarist Mark Hitt for the Classic Rock Cares charity project. The quartet composed and recorded ten tracks in the studio in 2007, and followed that with a tour to raise funds for the foundation. In 2011, Williams played on a benefit concert organized by Mark Farner. Williams said he also occasionally plays with a rhythm and blues band from Fort Myers called The Juice.

Accolades
Since Williams' introduction to the band, AC/DC has been inducted to the Australian Recording Industry Association's Hall of Fame (in 1988), and the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame (in 2003). In 1982, Williams was chosen as "Bassist of the Year" in a vote conducted by Kerrang! magazine.

Personal life
Williams married his American wife Georganne in 1980. They have two children: model and actress Erin Lucas (born 1984) and Luke (born 1986). The couple initially settled in Hawaii, but this left them feeling too isolated, and they found the school system to be lacking. In 1986, they moved to Fort Myers, Florida, at the suggestion of AC/DC bandmate and nearby resident Brian Johnson. Williams also spends time in the French city of Aix-en-Provence, where he has distant relatives. Williams' hobbies include fishing, flying, and wine.

Style
Williams' role in AC/DC was to provide steady but basic basslines which followed the rhythm guitar of Malcolm Young, consisting mostly of eighth notes. His basslines were sometimes written by Malcolm and Angus Young during composition, and at other times Williams developed them based on the other instrumental tracks. Williams has said of his playing, "It's not the [bass] line that counts. It is the feel. My favorite AC/DC tune to play is 'Down Payment Blues', because it's so simple. I play four notes throughout the song, but I get off on the whole thing—not me noodlin' away." He also said that he plays "the same thing in every song, for the most part [...] in AC/DC's music, the song is more important than any individual's bit in it". He added that "complex [bass] lines wouldn't add anything to a guitar-oriented band like [AC/DC], so [he tries] to create a bottom layer that drives what [AC/DC's] guys are doing on top". Williams had no difficulty keeping his low profile within the band, declaring, "I don't have any problem doing this, because I enjoy playing simply. I never feel angry or prisoner." Nevertheless, he very occasionally employs more melodic lines and passing notes on some songs, such as "Satellite Blues". His playing technique is mostly centred around downpicking, with the occasional use of plucking to mute the strings, which he says "adds more definition and tightens up the notes, and it gives the sound less sustain".

Equipment
In his first appearance in 1977, he used a Gibson Ripper only for the "Let There Be Rock" music video. Williams' trademark instrument is the StingRay and other basses by Music Man, strung with D'Addario (.045, .065, .085, .105) flatwounds in the studio and roundwound XLs in concert. In October 2020, Ernie Ball Music Man announced that they are releasing a Cliff Williams Signature Bass which will be a genuine replica of his 1979 Music Man StingRay bass. Williams states that despite trying other basses over the years, he always went back to Music Man's instruments, which he described as "a tremendous work horse of a bass". Other basses used include the Fender Precision Bass, a Gibson Thunderbird non-reverse, Fender Jazz Bass, the Steinberger L-series, a Gibson EB-3 and at least two LAG Custom basses. Williams used 3 Ampeg SVT-810E cabinets with 2 SVT-4PRO Heads, but if there was any interference with the wireless systems, he used cables in his live performances.

title: Cliff Williams


text:
Talk:Traffic sign

Colors
There is much work on signage colors, which is not addressed here. A new section, perhaps near the font section, is warranted. Marquess (talk) 07:23, 8 March 2010 (UTC)

cbb —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.187.172.81 (talk) 17:14, 6 May 2010 (UTC)

History
Added a picture of a portuguese 17th century traffic sign to this section - ref. (in portuguese): http://www.ansr.pt/Portals/0/Padrao%20de%201686%20final.pdf

Couldn't find any reference to a type of vehicle described, named sége or sege - here's a few 18th/19th cent. examples:

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FkKgTDI7ngU/S92vyv4wYqI/AAAAAAAAAzI/1ST2QepliMw/s1600/seg1.jpg (A.P.D.G. - “Sketches of Portuguese Life, manners, costume and caracther”, London printed for Geo. B. Whittaker, Ave Maria lane, 1826)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FkKgTDI7ngU/S92vyPf_ijI/AAAAAAAAAzA/8GiRNtIYT3Q/s1600/seg2.jpg (rev. William Morgan Kinsey (1788-1851)b - Portugal Illustrated Letters, London, 1829)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_FkKgTDI7ngU/S92vx2YJJuI/AAAAAAAAAy4/Ckv87GpDfaI/s1600/seg3.jpg (later 18th cent., Museu Nacional dos Coches, Lisboa)

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FkKgTDI7ngU/S92vnqF8diI/AAAAAAAAAyw/IFJoncCdWu4/s1600/seg4.jpg (later 18th cent., Museu Nacional dos Coches, Lisboa - four wheeled, later known as traquitana) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.153.62.138 (talk) 01:07, 22 June 2011 (UTC)

Over "pictured"
This article has too many images that are incongruous, wrongly positioned/sized and offer nothing to the understanding of traffic signs. For example, an Australian sign of a kangeroo? And? Most countries have animal images for the indigenous wildlife. Deer in Europe, Moose in North America etc. The same types of signs are just repeated again and again, and they have little to do with the text. IMO this article needs a top down hard core edit.86.145.3.102 (talk) 12:58, 17 June 2012 (UTC)

False signs
There is a general trend to add signs in some countries taken by more or less similar ones of other countries. This is worse in the Wiki Commons galleries. Most Greek signs are wrong taken mainly from the Swedish ones, the Thai warning ones resemble US signs and some Iranian ones resemble German signs. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.202.33.33 (talk) 20:32, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

 * I don't understand - do you mean that real countries are copying signs from other real countries, or that people are re-using photos on Wikipedia?

 * I think real countries can probably do what they want, unless someone challenges them in court. No one driving in Iran is going to believe the country has suddenly become Germany, no matter how many traffic signs you show them. :)

 * If someone on a wiki has (for example) used a Swedish photo because they think it's a good enough example of what a Greek sign looks like, and if you disagree, then please submit better photos that could replace the ones you disagree with. TooManyFingers (talk) 17:21, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 10 external links on Traffic sign. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131022032056/http://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/Getting-licensed/drivers3.pdf to http://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/Getting-licensed/drivers3.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140309063723/http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/10C10CF6-54D9-4732-AE70-26D36268DF9D/107300/1110401.pdf to http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/10C10CF6-54D9-4732-AE70-26D36268DF9D/107300/1110401.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060226051244/http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI55Y1926.html to http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZSI55Y1926.html
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20060420173537/http://www.vv.se/templates/page3____2789.aspx to http://www.vv.se/templates/page3____2789.aspx
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080610234906/http://www.mintransporte.gov.co/Servicios/Biblioteca/documentos/Manual_senalizacion/index.htm to http://www.mintransporte.gov.co/Servicios/Biblioteca/documentos/Manual_senalizacion/index.htm
 * Corrected formatting/usage for https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C3nkCYZUkAA-Of4.jpg
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131022032056/http://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/Getting-licensed/drivers3.pdf to http://www.icbc.com/driver-licensing/Getting-licensed/drivers3.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20140309063723/http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/10C10CF6-54D9-4732-AE70-26D36268DF9D/107300/1110401.pdf to http://www.fomento.gob.es/NR/rdonlyres/10C10CF6-54D9-4732-AE70-26D36268DF9D/107300/1110401.pdf
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110514032105/http://www.blog.ctprwp.gop.pk/traffic-signs to http://www.blog.ctprwp.gop.pk/traffic-signs
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20071025042019/http://www.td.gov.hk/road_safety/road_users_code/index/chapter_8_the_language_of_the_road/ to http://www.td.gov.hk/road_safety/road_users_code/index/chapter_8_the_language_of_the_road/

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

Cheers.— InternetArchiveBot  (Report bug) 00:48, 21 May 2017 (UTC)

Road surface marking
I was quite shocked to find that no signs in the form of Road surface marking are currently included in this article, is there a reason for this? I appreciate that not all markings on the road are signs i.e symbols that convey meaning, but many do and (in the UK at least) are backed by act of law.Mighty Antar (talk) 19:44, 28 November 2017 (UTC)

 * The word "sign" is used with a very precise meaning in the context of "traffic signs" to mean signage (that is, vertical information-bearing surfaces mounted next to or over the road), not symbols. You're confusing the category of "traffic signs" with the category of "traffic control devices," which is a much broader category of all devices attached on or next to a road that are intended to communicate something to drivers. Traffic signs and road surface markings are both types of traffic control devices. This is rather elementary ontology in civil engineering that one should be able to pick up quickly from reading professional magazines and textbooks.  --Coolcaesar (talk) 06:52, 29 November 2017 (UTC)

 * Is this ontology accepted internationally? I can see that in the introductory text at least, yours is the delineation currently imposed, in which case should the image of the cycleway sign, currently on the page be removed? The photo of the camel symbol? The Irish warning sign? Civil engineers aside, perhaps the lay person may be best served by a Road traffic control device infobox? Mighty Antar (talk) 11:15, 29 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Yes, it is internationally accepted. All three photographs you just mentioned are of traffic signs, so they are all eminently appropriate for this article. Please go to a library and read some textbooks or take a MOOC if you still don't understand the subject. --Coolcaesar (talk) 06:48, 30 November 2017 (UTC)
 * Thanks for another patronising response, please read that bit at the top of this talk page and don't bother responding if you've nothing constructive to say. This article is supposed to provide the justification and analysis, not some textbooks that nobody has bothered to source here. Your inference that your understanding is internationally accepted certainly isn't provided by the handfull of references currently on the page. Sort it out and you won't keep getting asked tiresome questions by people who can't differentiate between a sign and a symbol. Thanks. Mighty Antar (talk) 12:08, 1 December 2017 (UTC)

 * Coolcaesar, you have the whole thing backwards. It is categorically wrong to expect prior knowledge of specialized fields in order to read a general encyclopedia. If this is basic knowledge for understanding the subject, then Wikipedia needs to lay it out in black and white near the top of the article for those who didn't already know. Wikipedia exists precisely to tell such people what they came to find out, or else tell them which other Wikipedia article to look in; expecting them to already know the thing they came to find out is perverse. TooManyFingers (talk) 17:38, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Is a traffic light a traffic sign or not ?
Because on Dutch wikipedia, there is a 'difference', namely ; 'traffic light' is a 'part' of 'traffic signs' -> https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verkeersteken ... so it is a bit 'confusing' to correctly tag the wikidata from those ... — Preceding unsigned comment added by Henkevdb (talk • contribs) 13:16, 24 October 2018 (UTC)

 * I think it's very clear that it isn't clear. :) Both methods - "traffic lights are a separate category" and "traffic lights are a sub-category of traffic signs" - are obviously valid and not wrong. International inter-wiki agreement should be possible, because there's no politics, religion, or sports teams involved - but would it be worth the effort?

 * My initial preference is to treat the lights as one major type of signs. But when I look at the English article "Traffic light", I see a *lot* of information. So I suspect that the "right" way might be to include them as a sub-category but to also say "see main article for more information". Which may mean I've gotten us exactly nowhere. :) TooManyFingers (talk) 17:02, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

 * I see other arguments on this talk page that pretty forcefully (and convincingly) make the case that certain types of visual information function differently and belong in separate categories.

 * I *am* in favour of some way for people to easily start with a certain very broad category - I'd prefer to name it so that the naïve will easily find it and yet the experts won't complain that it's incorrect - what I wish for is a simple phrase that means "All of the signs, signals, indicators, symbols, instructions, communications, etc that are seen on roads". I believe that that's a category in people's minds, and that it would be nice to be able to start from there and see a hierarchical list or whatever.

 * Maybe I'm badly over-thinking this. Maybe it's already good. TooManyFingers (talk) 18:04, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

CH: Entering built-up areas indicates speed limit
Moved from my talk page -- ZH8000 (talk)

Regarding this edit by you: Unlike other European countries, town entry signs do not prescribe 50 km/h in Switzerland. I've corrected it. Regards --SelfishSeahorse (talk) 18:09, 2 April 2019 (UTC)

 * Hi You are correct given that the sign itself does not define a speed limit, but it indicates the start of a built-up area/settlement. And according SR 741.11 Art 4a §2 second sentence (de: " Für Fahrzeugführer, die aus unbedeutenden Nebenstrassen (wie Strassen, die nicht Ortschaften oder Ortsteile direkt verbinden, landwirtschaftliche Erschliessungsstrassen, Waldwege u. dgl.) in eine Ortschaft einfahren, gilt sie auch ohne Signalisation, sobald die dichte Überbauung beginnt.") if you enter a settlement (always indicated) the generally valid speed limit of 50km/h is indeed applicable even w/o signalisation.

 * BTW: the signalisation for bicycle etc are indeed falu red, not red.

 * -- ZH8000 (talk) 18:14, 18 April 2019 (UTC)

 * Hi,

 * The signals "Start of town on main roads" (4.27) and "Start of town on secondary roads" (4.29) are set up where the loosely built-up area of a settlement begins (SSV art. 50 §4). However, the general speed limit of 50 km/h applies to the entire densely built-up area of the locality (VRV art. 4a §2). While it is true that the general speed limit of 50 km/h applies even without sign 2.30.1 on insignificant minor roads (and only there), this exception has nothing to do with sign 4.27 or 4.29.

 * Regarding the signpost for bicycles and vehicle-like devices: please excuse me, i thought "falu" were a mistake. I didn't know that word and neither did my dictionary. (Besides, SSV art. 54a §1 only says red background.)

 * By the way, a "see also" with a red link doesn't make much sense and should be avoided (WP:REDNO).

 * Regards --SelfishSeahorse (talk) 17:56, 22 April 2019 (UTC)
 * Dear Besides the explicit speed limit given by a "start of town or village on secondary roads" sign as cited above, the SR/RS 741.21 (SSV/OSR/OSStr) Art. 50 §4 also says: "Die Signale «Ortsbeginn auf Hauptstrassen» und «Ortsbeginn auf Nebenstrassen» werden aufgestellt, wo das locker überbaute Ortsgebiet beginnt; sie dürfen nicht nach dem Signal stehen, das die allgemeine Höchstgeschwindigkeit innerorts anzeigt ". And in conjuction with Art. 22 §3 it implies that the "generally valid speed limit of 50km/h" is always valid latest with the beginning of a town or village, or the production of the sign 4.27/4.29. In other words, both signs, 4.27 and 4.29, explicitly and implicitly imply the generally valid speed limit of 50km/h. -- ZH8000 (talk) 12:36, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

 * The signs 4.27 and 4.29 cannot be placed after 2.30.1, but they can be placed before 2.30.1. Examples: Nottwil, Cunter, Tramelan (all 4.27 + 60 km/h, 2.30.1 comes after), Beffeux (4.29 w/o speed limit and w/o 4.30 [80 km/h]). As cited above, 4.27 and 4.29 are set up where the loosely built-up area of a settlement begins, but the general speed limit of 50 km/h (which doesn't have to be signed with sign 2.30.1 on insignificant minor roads) applies to the densely built-up area only. Therefore it is not true that 4.27 or 4.29 imply 50 km/h! Regards, --SelfishSeahorse (talk) 18:09, 29 April 2019 (UTC)

 * OMD, you're totally right. How was I able to overead it – shame on me. But the odd thing still is that you have to reduce your speed to 50km/h after you enter a settlement on a minor road and the densly built-up area begins. Thanks for your patience! – I will try to change the text accordingly. -- ZH8000 (talk) 18:05, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Short description
I changed the Short description to "Signboard displaying information for road users". Possible alternatives to signboard are noticeboard, placard, or billboard but all three lack the precision of signboard ("A board displaying a name, image, or some other inscription, used to give information or directions, identify a business, etc."), a word that's been around since 1632.

Quebec road signs
The Quebec government has posted the designs of its road signs at http://www.rsr.transports.gouv.qc.ca/Dispositifs/Accueil.aspx Some of the designs might be worth mentioning here. Eastmain (talk • contribs) 18:45, 22 October 2019 (UTC)

Warnings and construction 🏗 ⚠
-•-Is there a ‘Cool shake’ warning?-•- Avery 917 (talk) 23:40, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

Pedestrians and cyclists 🚶 🚲
Is there a pedestrian memory sign? Avery 917 (talk) 23:42, 25 July 2020 (UTC)

 * What are you referring to? What's the meaning of the sign you're asking about? TooManyFingers (talk) 18:16, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

Gallery photos: on topic?
There are currently a number of photos in the gallery that, while they *do* show signs which *are* meant for drivers, they might potentially be unofficial signs; in any case, they're certainly intended as informal humorous advice rather than required information.

(a) Do they belong here at all? (b) If yes, do we really want more than one? TooManyFingers (talk) 18:29, 26 August 2021 (UTC)

 * Over two years later, I have reduced them to one. But I agree in wondering if it still belongs in the article. EthanL13 |  talk  18:22, 9 December 2023 (UTC)

Wiki Education assignment: Equitable Futures - Internet Cultures and Open Access
— Assignment last updated by WikiEdit7205 (talk) 18:48, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Talk:Traffic sign


text:
User talk:Ta bu shi da yu/Archive7

Comments
Regarding your comment about "abrasiveness". Can I ask what specifically has given you that impression? -- Netoholic @ 02:52, 2004 Nov 3 (UTC)

 * Perhaps abrasiveness was the wrong word. I just don't think you're ready for adminship yet. I think you are a good contributor, however. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:50, 3 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Can you give any specific feedback as to why I wouldn't be "ready"? Is your evaluation of that based on the other votes, or something else? -- Netoholic @ 03:55, 2004 Nov 3 (UTC)

 * Netaholic's behaviour on Votes for deletion/2004 U.S. Election controversies and irregularities and 2004 U.S. Election controversies and irregularities has confirmed my choice was correct. I have placed a message stating as such on his webpage, however he has seen fit to remove it. Can't do much about this I suppose. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:30, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

NWS
I placed a larger NWS logo on the NOAA page for you. Couldn't find any other items on the list that, but on the bright side, thats 1 down and 2 to go. TomStar81 22:45, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Exploding whale
I haven't really followed the article's progression, but I know you're a driving force behind exploding whale awareness here. So congrats on the main page! Rhobite 01:27, Nov 7, 2004 (UTC)

Well done. Tim Ivorson 11:36, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

alferd packer
hey there, you whats really funny? i just happened to read that article maybe two days before i got your message! coincidence? --Larsie 19:30, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Speedy...?
Hi. I'm not sure what it is you meant on my talk page, unless it had to do with that B-Movie Bandit stub from yesterday. I posted that for a speedy before it had been moved to VfD. Hope that clears things up. - Lucky 6.9 19:34, 10 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Template:In the news
It has been agreed that, since 2004 U.S. Election controversies and irregularities is not a news item on any major service, it does not belong on Template:In the news. Please revert. -- Netoholic @ 02:05, 2004 Nov 11 (UTC)

 * Both sides are talking on IRC, and Jimbo expressed a dislike for it, also. -- Netoholic @ 02:09, 2004 Nov 11 (UTC)

OK, here is proof - it is not front page on any of these. As we only have space for three news items, surely this one is not valid. -- Netoholic @ 02:17, 2004 Nov 11 (UTC)

 * http://www.cnn.com/
 * http://abcnews.go.com/
 * http://www.bbc.co.uk/
 * http://www.ap.org/
 * http://www.msnbc.msn.com/

(to Ta bu shi da yu)
 * You came very close to violating the 3 revert rule, and I was forced to protect the page due to the edit war (and why the heck did you put an NPOV header on OUR FRONT PAGE). You are an admin - please abide by the rules and courtesies of Wikipedia. Thanks, ugen64 02:27, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * First of all, do you really think it was appropriate to put an NPOV header on our front page? Secondly, edit warring in any form (whether or not you reverted three times, I never accused you of doing so) is unbecoming of an administrator. Thirdly, Netoholic raised valid concerns, to which you responded (and I applaud you for that), meaning that the objections were at least stated on the talk page. Thanks, ugen64 02:32, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Again, I did not say it was against policy to revert, I stated reverting "is unbecoming of an administrator"; administrators are generally held to higher standards, and should definitely follow normal courtesies. As for your IRC comment - what exactly is wrong with discussing on IRC? It is a lot easier to get real-time comments between many different parties in a chat, rather than on the rather slow and edit-conflict-prone Wikipedia talk pages. Thanks, ugen64 02:41, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Again, it is very sluggish to do much of any discussion on Wikipedia, or on the mailing list (of which I am not a part, in any case). As for your behavior, it seems inherent (to me at least) that placing a glaring NPOV header (or any header, for that matter) on a main page template would violate common sense. While I should probably retract my statement of "please abide by the rules," it still remains that edit warring on any page is strongly discouraged, especially on the, by far, most highly viewed page on the Wikipedia. Thanks, ugen64 02:55, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * In what way is discussing on the IRC channel *not* being held to a higher standard? It's a different matter if we were all congregating to decide which user to ban as a "troll" because we didn't like him or her, but in this case we were simply discussing whether or not the election fraud page belonged on the main page. While I had my own opinions, the only decisions I made were to protect the page due to an edit war (after having been informed of the problem by several users) then to proceed to warn you. There is no *standard* to which users are held, regarding their participation on the IRC channel.

 * Also, my comments regarding the "sluggishness" of the talk page were relative. I had decided to protect the page; however, I just offhandedly asked on the IRC channel if it was all right. I was not formulating any policy, nor making any decisions on IRC - I was simply asking for a casual confirmation. (Why does this seem like a repeat of my defense on Cecropia's talk page?) However, if you object to discussion on the IRC channel, I fully respect that; it seems unreasonable and unrealistic, however, to limit all wikipedia-related substantive discussion to the Wikipedia talk pages. Of course, I wouldn't decide to change the blocking policy on the basis of an IRC chat with a few of my wikifriends, but in this case, again, it was simply a casual, non-binding confirmation. By the way, don't take my comments as representative of anyone besides me - other users of the IRC channel may disagree with me completely, and hate me for this defense... Thanks, ugen64 03:27, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Hmm. Rdsmith4 was on the IRC channel, but I do not think he said anything about the issue until after he reverted. Ed g2s (or whatever his username is) was never on the IRC channel. Our discussions were, as far as I can recall, regarding whether or not to protect the page, and while we did talk about your (in our opinion) questionable edits, we didn't make any IRC-collaborative decisions to revert you. (this is ugen64 on an IP) 208.27.204.4 18:06, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Blocking 216.148.246.90
Hi. I saw that you sent a final warning message to that user, and then a couple minutes later, you blocked them. However, if you compare their talk page with their contrib.s, you will see that they made their last edit BEFORE your final warning, so I don't think that their block was warranted just yet (they stopped vandalizing after your final warning). I'm unblocking, but if I'm mistaken, please let me know, and I will reblock (or you can do it). -[[User:Frazzydee|Frazzydee|✍]] 03:32, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Agreed! Thanks for your message. I've left them a message on their talk page so that they know they're not invincible ;) -[[User:Frazzydee|Frazzydee|✍]] 03:35, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * It looks like they got the point :D, I hope they won't be vandalizing again. Personally I hate blocking users, that's why I give them at least three warnings before doing so- even if it's obvious vandalism.  Maybe it's a phobia I have? I've never had to block a user, but it's probably because of my long and slightly threatening vandalism warning ;).  "For your reading pleasure, I don't plan to archive [my talk page]." That's a subtle joke on the top of my talk page.  I also have an irrational fear about archiving my talk page :).  Maybe if it gets REALLY big, I'll archive it.  I should've archived it on the anniversary of my first edit on Wikipedia, but I suppose it's too late for that now :(.  Does archiving really make a difference, since most people use the 'post message' button? -[[User:Frazzydee|Frazzydee|✍]] 03:49, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Ah, see your point ;). Maybe when it gets to a nice number...like 100.  I see why you wanted to block the user before they made any more disruption.  While I think you were a bit quick in actually blocking them, I definately agree with your reasons.  Anyhow, I'm going to go play, then sleep :).  Good night- it was nice talking to you :). -[[User:Frazzydee|Frazzydee|✍]] 03:56, 11 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Edit summaries
Edit summaries are for documenting the changes you made, not for the reasons you made them. Do not leave edit summaries which comment directly on other users ("First Netoholic removes it for "original research", then removes it because the info is duplicated. There is nothing wrong with summarising info. Reverting.") -- Netoholic @ 17:27, 2004 Nov 11 (UTC)

Stop trolling my user page. -- Netoholic @ 04:16, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

DO NOT INTERFERE WITH USER SUBPAGES. That is MY user space. You are abusing your admin rights in moving them rather than honoring my deletion requests. IF you do not desist I will take you directly to arbitration. I have never seen such a grevious abuse. -- Netoholic @ 04:31, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

 * You moved all of my old archives, and then just deleted the redirects. That is OUTSIDE the bounds of your rights. -- Netoholic @ 04:39, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

 * OK, I'll do a copy of the archives and then delete the page, then recreate by pasting them back in. That OK with you? - Ta bu shi da yu 04:42, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Why are you harassing me like this. I supported your adminship and have never taken issue with you. -- Netoholic @ 04:46, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

 * I just noticed this comment. Whether Netoholic supported my adminship or not doesn't fuss me in the slightest. I will not be treating Netoholic differently to any other user just because he voted for me. I have taken issue with Netoholic's behaviour and unilateral editing technique, which rubs many people up the wrong way in a consensus driven website. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:28, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

According to Netoholic, these archives are duplicated in the page history because they were archived via copy+paste. As such I don't see any reason not to delete them. — Kate Turner | Talk 04:47, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)
 * I doubt there's a policy on copying talk pages, but why bother? The only reason I can see that you'd want to is to preserve the contents (which is already done)   — Kate Turner | Talk 04:51, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)
 * Just easier to see what people have written. I don't want to go through his history to find my past comments! - Ta bu shi da yu 04:53, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Seems like you're only doing it to make trolling harassment easier. -- Netoholic @ 04:58, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

 * Incorrect. However, I did do it because I dislike it when people just remove negative feedback, especially when it is regarding an ongoing issue. It makes communication very difficult, and others aren't able to see that others have been telling the user the same things. Basically I find it rude, even if technically you are allowed to do it. I mean, ever tried hunting for a particular comment in a talk history? It's hard as people don't usually write good edit summaries (if they write one at all!). Now I have the talk history, I can much more easily remember what I've written, and see what others have written also. My perogative. Netoholic would be allowed to do this also. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:34, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

From IRC: [04:54:02] Netoholic: were you planning on adding links to the old versions of your talk page on the page? [04:54:20]  kate yes That's why I do as well - it's just as easy as having archive pages. — Kate Turner | Talk 04:55, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

Ta - If you want to keep a copy of Net's talk page lying around (which is fully in your rights under the GFDL), then the best thing for you to do would be to copy and paste it into a subpage of yours. Our de-facto policy in the matter is that his subpages are his to do with as he pleases (within reason), and by the same token, yours are yours. →Raul654 05:00, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)

 * Protecting that page was not appropriate. I am unprotecting it.   — Kate Turner | Talk 05:00, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

 * I can't even lock it because Kate won't let me - I only unprotected the page in Net's user space. You're free to put whatever you want in yours (and he is free to not have what he doesn't want in his).   — Kate Turner | Talk 05:07, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

 * No problem :)  — Kate Turner | Talk 05:19, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

Cleanup
(Crosspost to User talk:Ta bu shi da yu and talk:Netoholic) - I have copied and pasted Netoholic's pages into Ta bu's subpages, and protected them (Ta's subpages). Netoholic can do what he likes with his subpages, and likewise for Ta. Ta can do with them what he wants. →Raul654 05:15, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)

 * These are archive1, archive2, archive3 and archive4. - Ta bu shi da yu 05:34, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * If you are going to keep them protected, they have to be listed on Protected page. -- Netoholic @ 05:52, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

 * You have to list them. Personally, nothing about this will make be look bad. -- Netoholic @ 05:55, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

 * I would prefer to unprotect them if we are all in agreement that they can stay where they are.  — Kate Turner | Talk 05:57, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

 * Done. - Ta bu shi da yu 06:44, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Please don't leave threatening warnings on my talk page. Kindly asking goes a lot farther. -- Netoholic @ 06:46, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

 * Please note: I asked Netoholic on his talk page what threats I was making, but he never responded. Unless you call clearing his talk page a "response". - Ta bu shi da yu 13:18, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Sure - I think it'll be fine though :)  — Kate Turner | Talk 06:49, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC) (P.S. you two need to go and do something else for a few hours)

Clarification
I wasn't accusing anyone specific of anything. I do find it highly suspect however that you, as an administrator of Wikipedia no less, would defend this behavior which is so obviously a violation of the rules, both written and unspoken. It also goes against the spirit of Wikipedia and the purpose of VfD. If VfD (and indeed Wikipedia in general) is going to turn into nothing more than a popularity contest (since, after all, whoever has more friends willing to sign up, vote, and leave again wins) this will end with my resignation as an editor from Wikipedia until such issues become addressed. Reene (リニ) 09:39, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)

Reminder
Have a chat to User:Jill St. Crux about Jonah 4. - Ta bu shi da yu 16:51, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Keeping "In the news" NPOV and credible
Following various attempts to add partisan and fringe stories to Template:In the news, I've proposed a new criterion to keep such stuff out. Could you please take a look at Wikipedia talk:In the news section on the Main Page and let me know what you think? -- ChrisO 17:19, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Arb comments
The Arbitration request you added comments to was opened by another user, and over different items. It's not really an open format to launch complaints. If you feel strongly, can I suggest you open a page on Requests for comment? This is a separate dispute, and really needs to follow all the proper steps. I want your concerns to be heard, rather than dismissed as not part of that Arb case. -- Netoholic @ 20:06, 2004 Nov 12 (UTC)

 * Raul654 commented on his page: "Netoholic asked me the same thing after he told you that. And I'll tell you what I told him - there's nothing stopping you from adding to that page - arbitration evidence pages are open to everyone. →Raul654 06:16, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)"

 * To add to Raul654's comments, a bit of my own... apparently, you can add evidence there, but if you are joining the case, I can also add evidence against you, such as your actions related to my user archive sub-pages, edit wars you've participated in, and other things like repeated harrassment of me. This will be looked by the arbitration committee just the same, and they would be allowed to rule on it.  I suggest we try and use other methods of resolution (even as simple as just talking) before we open this up larger than it needs to be. -- Netoholic @ 06:46, 2004 Nov 13 (UTC)

 * Just how large does he want it opened? I'm only adding things that he did that caused problems. For my trouble I get threatened! - Ta bu shi da yu 11:51, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Cyclone Tracy
Because it wasn't an Australian cyclone. It didn't belong to anyone. No one ever refers to Andrew as an American hurricane, or to the Kobe earthquake as a Japanese earthquake. A natural disaster shouldn't get such a descriptor. --Golbez 20:19, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)

Human shields
Hi, sorry for the delay in getting back to you: Christiaan 09.43 13 Nov, 2004 (UTC)

Removing personal attacks
I will continue to remove personal attacks as I see them posted. No, they are not relevant to the issue of whether or not the article should be deleted. And they weren't "comments" by the way- If you'll notice, one was in bright red bolded font at the very top of the page. Comments go at the -bottom- of the page, not the top, and certainly not before the votes. If you wish to comment on Netoholic's conduct, do so on his talk page, the article's talk page, or make a short, relevant one under the "comments" section. Do not attempt to skew the vote by attacking the person that put it on VfD. Reene (リニ) 10:44, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * Putting a large bright red "OMG NETOHOLIC IS TEH SUCK" (which is basically what was said) at the very top of the page is abusive, not productive in the slightest, and does nothing to alleviate the growing tension between certain users. As I said, if you wish to point something out about Netoholic, place it under the Comments section on the VfD page. You'll notice when I discovered that the vote had been tainted by someone's actions on an off-site forum I didn't post it in great bold red letters at the top of the page- I made a comment about it, as is appropriate. By the way- I talked to FT2 about it. He agrees it's not necessary. So we'll just leave the personal jabs out of it okay? Reene (リニ) 11:11, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

 * I will say this one last time: If you have objections to Netoholic that relate to the VfD entry, post them under "Comments", not under "Opposing views". They certainly shouldn't come before the list of votes. This is the last time I will address the issue here. I will, however, continue to remove any personal attacks or anything that is not directly relevant to the issue of whether or not the article should be deleted I see on the page if it isn't where it should be. Reene (リニ) 11:49, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

Sandbox BJAODN
I think such excerpts should go under Bad Jokes and Other Deleted Nonsense/Sandbox In-sand-ity. (linked to from WP:BJAODN). JRM 13:31, 2004 Nov 13 (UTC)

change to vfd procedure without consensus, reverted
Some folks had started setting up numbered voting on vfd. I have alwayws been an opponent of numbered voting on wikipedia in general (though I can see the point on RfA, but only there!), and I can't believe folks would just like, go and do that on vfd without getting a consensus to do so first.

In fact, they shouldn't, so I reverted it out in the only 2 cases that were present.

One case someone reverted back, so I'm awaiting discussion on that particular case. :-)

Kim Bruning 13:24, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Since I last looked there's been some more folks using numbering. Oh dear. I've put up some comments on that at vfd talk Kim Bruning 13:55, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Don't revert my VfD addition again please.
From Violetriga's page

I am an admin. The vote was never closed properly with the vfd top and vfd bottom templates, so it never got closed. It must have been removed accidently from the VfD page, so I'm readding it. - Ta bu shi da yu 13:59, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Please don't talk down to me. I am an admin too - that makes no difference.  The article was deleted and a new article has been created about an entirely different subject.  It should be removed, archived and a new VFD created.  Please fix this before I have to do it again. violet/riga (t) 14:04, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Excuse me, but I'm not talking down to you. I was letting you know I'm doing an admin task. If you felt I was doing this, sorry. I wasn't. I will double check what's going on and fix accordingly. You should have left a quick message on my page though. I would have sorted it out pretty quickly. Instead you've figured I'm doing things in bad faith. Unpleasant. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:10, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I have just double-checked. There were two articles: one was called Band geeks. I deleted that article. The other article has no deletion history, was listed under VfD once and somehow was removed from VfD before the vfd top and vfd bottom tags were added. Those tags indicate that the vote has ended, no? It looks like the vote never ended. Hence the reason I relisted. - Ta bu shi da yu 14:13, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Sorry that I took it the wrong way and thanks for sorting the problem out. :) violet/riga (t) 16:41, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I think it still needs clarification. Band geek was not up for VfD before - Band geeks was.  The articles are different.  Are you saying that you want to list the present Band geek article on VfD?  If so you'll need to present the reason why.  violet/riga (t) 20:10, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I think it's pretty much sorted now... Looks like we got it. violet/riga (t) 00:16, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * VfP:Band geek = vote on the current ("music nerds") band geek article
 * VfP:Band geeks = vote on the now-deleted SpongeBob SquarePants episode Band geeks
 * VfP:Band geek vote 1 = deleted

Netoholic shifting comments on talk pages.
I was looking through FT2's history pages when I came across the quote, which I copied and pasted. However, FT2's histories are now only 50 long each, and I cannot find the section. I suggest you ask FT2. For further research, you might note the timestamp on Netoholic's posts on my copy (I've just logged in, so do not know if they are still extent anywhere.)

- Amgine 16:59, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I you are still interested in that link, I found it at.

Chuck F and the anon users
Thanks for the note about the anon. A few anonymous users have been reverting Chuck F, I don't think they are Reithy. You're correct that they should also have been warned about reverting 3 times. The difference, as I see it, is that Chuck should know better by now, he's been doing it for over a month. In the future if I warn Chuck I will also warn "his opponent," as the anon(s) are being called. You should also be aware that the AC is voting on a temporary injunction and it looks like Chuck and Reithy will be ordered not to edit in the main namespace at all. Rhobite 19:40, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)

Helllo123
I notice you have deleted my article Helllo123. I request that it be undeleted and go through the vfd process, as it was unfairly speedied. 61.68.201.23 06:15, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Reverting Chuck F
Thanks for your comment on User talk:172.202.143.61, which was me. I understand that in trying to deal with Chuck's bad faith edits I have broken the three-revert rule on a number of occassions. But I cannot conceive of any other way to deal with him. He has constantly inserted his POV into articles and removed any neutral and truthful information he doesn't like. He immediately reverted any attempt at compromise and any reinsertion of accurate information he deleted. He sees Wikipedia as a place to promote his political beliefs and spin and will do anything it takes to do that, including inserting POV and untrue information into articles and deleting anything he doesn't like. Neither the RfC nor the arbitration case against him produced any moderation in his behaviour. I'm afraid I just lost my patience.

I'm not sure the revert wars have been entirely unhelpful. They did force him to start using Talk pages and discussing things, but not to any product as he simply kept reverting to his preferred version and telling others to explain themselves on Talk, then refused to accept anything anyone else told him. Looking at the edit history of libertarian capitalism it seems he was forced to discuss and compromise at one point on that article, but as soon as he thought the other editors bakcs were turned he reverted to his POV and factually incorrect version. I saw now recourse given the failure of discussion and his refusal to comrpomise other thann to keep reverting his reverts.

I have never come across such a bad faith editor as Chuck. Chuck needs to see that Wikipedia is not a place for him to promote his political beliefs at the expense of neutral and accurate information and must moderate his blanket reversions and POV editing. I suspect he will need to formally apologise to other editors before anyone can assume good faith about him in the future and given his track record I think it will be a long time before anyone will trust him. 172.202.202.103

Do you do wiki IRC? Can you wander over there if you do, and if Im round? FT2 23:15, Nov 14, 2004 (UTC)

American World University/delete
After a bit of detective work, I've found out what happened. The page was originally listed for deletion on October 31, which was then moved to vfd/old at the appropriate time (whenever that was), and stayed there until I cleaned it up yesterday. On November 12, User:Anthony DiPierro then moved the old discussion to Votes for deletion/American World University/archive and restarted the discussion at vfd without amending the link at vfd/old and in my haste yesterday I didn't check the dates of the discussion, just the votes. Technically therefore the discussion was still open on the old vfd debate, therefore making the new listing invalid; however as the article had had a re-write, that's normally enough to open the discussion anew, so quite what you want to do with it is up to you. Interesting to note though how willing Anthony is to accept an action that's against the normal process when it's in his favour... -- Graham ☺ | Talk 23:40, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Vandalism by Ziegenpeter
No problem. I was checking my watchlist when I came across that. I did fix the articles he edited, by the way. Hope it'll stop for now. – Kaonashi 01:36, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

poll
Interfering with that poll is not appropriate. Feel free to vote, or leave comments, but you may not call an end to it. This is not an "arbitration", it is an effort to fix problems with an obviously POV article. Even the VfD consensus agrees that is true. -- Netoholic @ 03:41, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)
 * Netaholic's behavior is ill-intentioned and just another form of harassment. -- RyanFreisling @ 03:45, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I agree totally. I just added this to the evidence page. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:46, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

land blubber
And I can't believe you don't see the difference between "land-blubber" and "land-blubber newsmen". And I can't believe you don't see that he is not referring to himself hint: newsmen, not newsman. And since I left your favorite piece in peace, back off. Go hunt zionist revisionist deniers. Mikkalai 07:42, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

You sure like the last word to be yours, don't you? Get yourself children and teach them. Mikkalai 07:46, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Definition of irony: someone who accuses the other person of getting in the last word. And yes, I know I'm ruining the irony here :) - Ta bu shi da yu 07:51, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Stalking
I changed the header of a voting option, not a signed comment, to remove what was obviously an unnecessary personal attack. Besides, you removed my entire comment. As of right now, I am of the opinion that you are stalking my edits unfairly, and I ask you to desist. You have exacerbated this entire chain of events, and I truly wish you will re-evaluate your actions, becuase I am feeling unfairly persecuted. -- Netoholic @ 08:03, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)

 * I am investigating this. All of a sudden the 'pedia slowed to a crawl. If I have inadvertantly removed his comment via a rollback I will restore it very quickly. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:15, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Netoholic put the comments back, which is good. Have posted an apology of sorts on the talk page. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:32, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

(copied) Netoholic, your behavious has caused me to request the injunction, and it wasn't just the editing of other people's comments in the talk page. I've been editing here for quite a while, and I've had disputes with people, but I've never seen anything like your edits! They have caused more anger and annoyance that any other user I've met, and I've met a few users who would try the patience of a saint. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:34, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I am not out to cause anger and annoyance. I do think that you have greatly exacerbated this.  If I were to go around making comments like "Ta bu shi da yu AGAIN is removing user comments" or "oh, that's just Ta bu shi da yu causing trouble again", eventually, many people would get a skewed view of you.  This is what I have experienced for a long time.  This perpetual harassment and degradation is harmful to me, and my presence here.  If this is your intent, then we cannot bridge this gap ever, and we should just persue punitive measures to solve out problems.  If you're willing to accept that perhaps you have acquired a view of me which may be unfair, then perhaps at some point in the future we can come to understanding and return to assuming good faith about each other.  Please let me know. -- Netoholic @ 08:48, 2004 Nov 15 (UTC)

 * Except that this doesn't work. My removal of a comment has only ever happened once, and that was unintentional - I did the rollback because you decided to edit a comment by another user (you might say it was a "heading", but it was still a comment by the user). I am not harassing you, but I have been chasing around some extremely dodgy edits for the past few days. You have it on your own head that you are under the microscope at the moment. - Ta bu shi da yu 08:52, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Also note, I have acquired a view of him. My view is that he is a disruptive, contentious editor who has annoyed and angered lots of people with his edits. He seems to be under the impression that I'll just accept what he does and not form a view about him! Sorry, things just don't work that way, and its his own fault he's given me that view. No smoke without fire. - Ta bu shi da yu 11:40, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Exploding whale
Hey mate! I tried watching this video, but unfortunately, something in my setup is wrong: I can't get sound, no matter what I try. (And yes, sound is on.) So I'll have to work from the transcript. Did I miss anything? I've included the article on my watchlist and will keep an eye on it.
 * 1) Reading the transcript, I do get the impression that indeed the voiceover with the "bbbb" phrase was done in the studio, not spontaneously on-site. (The pun seems to be made before the explosion.)
 * 2) I find the wordplay funny, and had absolutely no problems understanding it. And I'm not a native English speaker! IMO, it does belong into the article. Nobody ever said our articles had to be dull—lively writing is a plus! And that quote, as it stands now, seems to be correct. So I don't see any reason to remove it.
 * 3) Judging from the talk page of the article and the land blubber section above, it seems you're well on the way to sorting this out.
 * 4) Whether Linnman said "newsmen" or "newsman" is pretty irrelevant: since he himself is/was a newsman, too, he included himself in the statement, even if he used the plural.
 * 5) I think the current version ("Linnman joked...") is in fact better than the version before Mikkalai came along.

BTW, I very rarely revert other editors right away. I usually take things to talk first, maybe even only after a few hours. Especially when a passer-by makes changes I don't agree with that has a significant advantage: a passer-by is unlikely to stay for long and reason about an edit he most likely did spontaneously. In most cases, there's no response, and one can just quietly rephrase the changes again. (And sometimes they do stay. But then one can still argue reasonably about it without anybody having been reverted. Reverting tends to get the blood pressure up.) Lupo 10:57, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I have absolutely no objections in the way as it is now. The original version stuck like a sore thumb. In a joke it often happens that if you change a single word it turns from funny to silly and worse. Mikkalai 16:05, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Response re CE
To make a point. I quickly wrote it up in Discussion, you simply looked between edits. :) I won't challenge a further revert; I did that to direct attention to talk, to air my concerns. --Golbez 11:11, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

 * You are very probably right - but it worked. :) --Golbez 11:14, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

 * Thanks, and I you; I don't get into revert wars, but what struck me about this was that it just didn't seem newsworthy, which is why I wanted to discuss it further. If I had simply disagreed with the content but still found it newsworthy, I wouldn't have said anything. Well, maybe one edit. --Golbez 11:17, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)

Why did I make that page?
That page was a redirect to the Goatse.cx article... WhisperToMe 23:07, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

User:Ziegenpeter made it into a redirect. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Undelete/Hick.org/goat/ for a history that shows this. I will ban Ziegenpeter in a min... WhisperToMe 23:10, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

I made the "hick.org/goat/" redirect to the "Goatse.cx" article on Wikipedia as that more or less is a mirror site to Goatse and therefore is the same thing. Ziegenpeter came and changed it into a link to the actual site. Also, Ziegenpeter was vandalizing other articles and got an indefinite block from another contributor. WhisperToMe 23:32, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Very strong support
I just wanted to drop you a quick note to thank you for your very kind words. I means alot to me that you showed such feeling in support of me.

Thanks again, ClockworkTroll 23:53, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)

edu sites
Can I use photos from .edu sites and use them as public domain photos? I just uploaded one. It's Straight Hall.

Darwinek, 10:00 UTC, 16 Oct 2004

Wikinews demo up and running
Hi!

I'm writing to let you know that the Wikimedia Board of Trustees has approved the first stage of the Wikinews project. There's now a fully operational English demo site at demo.wikinews.org. This will be used for experimenting with various review models and basic policies before the site is launched officially in about a week. demo.wikinews.org will become the English version later. You voted for the Wikinews project, so I'm asking for your participation now. Everything is open, nothing is final. What Wikinews will and can be depends in large part on you. There already is a global Wikinews mailing list for discussing the project. If you are interested at all, please subscribe -- coordination is of key importance. There's also an IRC channel #wikinews on irc.freenode.net. Realtime discussion can help to polish up articles. If you're looking for something to do, check out the articles in development and articles in review. Or start a new story in the Wikinews workspace, or ignore the proposed review system - it's up to you. I hope you'll join us soon in this exciting experiment.--Eloquence* 01:59, Nov 17, 2004 (UTC)

Arb page comments
From the top of the Evidence page - "If you disagree with some evidence you see here, please provide counter-evidence, or an explanation of why the evidence is misleading. Please do this under a seperate header, to seperate your response from the original evidence." You'll need to move your comment to another section, or the talk page. I plan on introducing more evidence, and your comment placement interferes. -- Netoholic @ 02:25, 2004 Nov 17 (UTC)

 * OK, I won't roll him back again, so long as he adds a reason for adding this evidence. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:27, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

WTF ?!?! -- Netoholic @ 02:27, 2004 Nov 17 (UTC)

 * I got your message after I read this on my talk page. Sheesh. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:30, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

You should be rolling back my evidence AT ALL! -- Netoholic @ 02:28, 2004 Nov 17 (UTC)

 * Correct. I didn't. I put my comment back, and didn't alter your statements. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:30, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * 1) Your comment should not be there, per the Evidence page opening section.
 * 2) You should never use rollback EXCEPT as an anti-vandalism tool.  You were not given that tool as an admin just to make subjugation of other's edits easier. -- Netoholic @ 02:33, 2004 Nov 17 (UTC)

 * Oh please. I could have just editted and reverted. It's not really any different. Taking out my note could be seen as vandalism, incidently. - Ta bu shi da yu 02:35, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

When are you going to move your comment? -- Netoholic @ 03:26, 2004 Nov 17 (UTC)

 * I thought you already did! Gah! - Ta bu shi da yu 03:59, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Even though it would have been non-controversial and appropriate, I leave it to you since you've announced misgivings about that in the past. -- Netoholic @ 04:02, 2004 Nov 17 (UTC)

You need to move ALL of your comments out of the "Evidence against Ta bu shi da yu" section. That includes all of your signed comments. -- Netoholic @ 04:58, 2004 Nov 17 (UTC)

Arab-Israeli conflict
Alberuni has been trying to add the 9/11 attacks to this page, as part of an absurd conspiracy theory view of the world in which everything the U.S. does is for Israel's benefit. Well, if he wants to add it to the page, he'll need to get consensus first in Talk:, which I imagine might be hard, given the ridiculousness of his position. Please note that controversial additions or edits to articles should be cleared in Talk: first, this is Wikipedia convention. I also recommend that everyone read Be bold, especially the second half, which covers this exact situation. Jayjg 03:33, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Jayjg assumes that everyone in the world shares or should share his extremist Zionist perspective on all issues related to the Mideast. It is widely accepted that the 9/11 attacks are related to, if not a direct consequence of, US foreign policy, particularly the extreme pro-Israeli bias in US foreign policy. The Iraq war is more complicated because of the oil issue but I outlined the case on the Talk:Arab-Israeli conflict and placed it on the RfC list to solicit comments from other editors and establish consensus. You participation would be welcome. --Alberuni 04:02, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Please see Requests_for_comment and Talk:Arab-Israeli_conflict. --Alberuni 04:59, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * By the way, views of neutral third parties always welcome. Jayjg 19:25, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Arbitration Elections
You may remember that I coordinated the previous two elections, for the board, and for the arbitration committee. I am willing to coordinate this election as well, and have asked Elian to assist. However, we would like to have the support of the candidates to do this. Do you support us coordinating the election? My policy is to be entirely neutral, and to ensure this, I will not be voting myself (I didn't vote in previous elections either). All results will be announced following the final count. Please answer on my talk page. Danny 01:15, 18 Nov 2004 (UTC)

163.1.141.7 has returned
S/he has blanked her talk page. You had warned her/him about blanking pages, but I would think that deleting your own talk would be an exception, dunno. Anyway, my guess is that activity on Ruzwana Bashir is more likely`. . . thanks for your help on it in the past. Cheers! Chris vLS 06:35, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

TfD
The items have not been listed long enough, and your apparent bias means you yourself shouldn't. I want to hear objective outside opinion. -- Netoholic @ 08:19, 2004 Nov 19 (UTC)

 * Ok, I really don't think you should handle TfD any more.
 * Template:MontyPython - you removed it saying "no consensus to delete", but there are 2 deletes (plus nominator) there, and 2 keeps.
 * Template:Recipe moving - you removed it saying "no consensus to delete", but there are 1 deletes (plus nominator) and 1 keep.
 * I'd really like to give you the benefit of the doubt that you aren't just targeting the items I requested for deletion with these choices, so please restore them for further voting, or delete them. -- Netoholic @ 15:32, 2004 Nov 19 (UTC)

Noticed your delete of Template:OoP mess on a 4-3 vote. I have no idea what the template was. But I have been under the impression that the standard for deletion of anything was more than a simple majority. Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but that's certainly the way it goes on the regular VFD page. Wolfman 15:55, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I'm not interested in undeleting, as I don't even know what the template was (just saw it in the delete log). I just was curious about the vote standard, and thought I'd ask.  I appreciate your reply. Wolfman 16:09, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * I've also replied on Wikipedia talk:Templates for deletion about this one. Specifically, you forgot to replace the text of the template on the pages it was in use. -- Netoholic @ 16:03, 2004 Nov 19 (UTC)
 * How about Netoholic reads up on deletion policy. It has to be rough consensus. Also, I was eventually going to get around to fixing up those links. Sheesh. There've been a few things I've had to do tonight. Like block Chuck_F for 24 hours. Sigh. - Ta bu shi da yu 16:11, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * How about you stop being so insulting? The WP:TFD page has a "holding area" at the bottom of the page. That is where templates, which have been decided to be deleted, are listed.  The "owner" or anyone else, then goes through an pulls the template out of the related pages. Immediate deletion of a template without cleaning the pages is incorrect procedure, and really "I'll get to it later" is not acceptable. -- Netoholic @ 16:17, 2004 Nov 19 (UTC)
 * I can also assure you that I have had many occassions to become very familiar with all of the policy pages, including deletion. This isn't about policy, it's about procedure on the template deletion page. In fact, TfD maintenance doesn't even require the presence of an admin, since we have the holding area.  Admins would only need to be involved in the final deletion. -- Netoholic @ 16:26, 2004 Nov 19 (UTC)

Rollback misuse
And please stop rollback-ing my edits. In fact, just stop using that function all-together until you can learn how to properly identify the right times to use it. -- Netoholic @ 15:36, 2004 Nov 19 (UTC)

 * Thanks for removing my comments with your last rollback. That one has convinced me beyond a doubt that you should not have access to that feature. -- Netoholic @ 16:31, 2004 Nov 19 (UTC)

"Vandalism" - so then I assume you posted about me on Vandalism in progress, so other admins can watch out for me? "Sneakiness" - yes, it must be very sneaky for me to make two edits in a row on a single page (sarcasm). Your tendendancy towards carelessness with that rollback function is the problem. -- Netoholic @ 16:41, 2004 Nov 19 (UTC)

Jihad
I've replied to you on the Talk page. RickK 09:22, Nov 20, 2004 (UTC)

While you're going through the article, your comments on Talk:Jihad would be welcome. - Mustafaa 04:17, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks. - Mustafaa 23:55, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Hello --

And thanks for the nice note. I hope to post some changes on this article today, Godwilling. Still a rookie, obviously. Eager to get your feedback. BrandonYusufToropov 14:00, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

This page is now locked ... do you know how long it is likely to stay that way? BrandonYusufToropov 01:46, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The "Extreme deletion" text on the textfiles.com VfD...
It's Radman1 who keeps doing it.

Radman1 inserts the RfED text, for what I think is the first time...

Radman1 re-inserts the "RfED" text, which had been removed since you can't VfD a VfD; his edit summary claims "rv vandalism by fvw"...

and Radman1 inserts the RfED yet again.

-- Antaeus Feldspar 06:42, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Question
I saw that some of the "fallacy of only objections" stuff was copied to User:Pename's user page. Is there a case/precedent for somewhere also recording the following comment he made:

 * I'm extremely sorry to have to tell you this, but you're not exactly the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree.--Pename 05:23, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

—iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 06:10, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

Timeline of Islamist military history
Please see Template talk:Timeline of Islamist military history. I have some comments there and since you have been the only one to work on Timeline of Islamist military history. —iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 06:23, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

 * You should ask User:Pename about it. He's the original author (check out edit history of Jihad), I merely moved his table to a template. - Ta bu shi da yu 06:26, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * You really think asking him will help? :D —iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 06:26, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

Pename
Pename is obviously in the wrong, and that is not in disupte. He is a new contributor to Wikipedia and he is totally oblivious to policy. As an admin you are held to a higher standard and must act as such. Pename has made some good points, as well as some bad ones, and you seem to have neglected those in favor of knocking him down. I claimed you were appealing to the fallacy of nothing but objections. That is not a personal attack, but an observation of your interaction with Pename. It may or it may not be correct, but it is certainly not a personal attack, since it is an observation regarding your comments, and not you yourself. For example, on the Jihad page, you told Pename that his "sources leave something to be desired", yet you neglected to specify which source as he requested. Instead, you opined with another objection, "all your sources are from either extremist websites or extremely POV sources". Then, in the section, More questions for Pename! you engaged in further objections, which were, in a way, good faith requests for clarification. However, you compounded those requests with further objections by posting leading questions like "Isn't this just your POV and your interpretation of events" and "are you misrepresenting a people group here". I agree that Pename needs to cite sources, but your use of objections gives the mistaken impression that Pename is in error, when in fact, you have not shown that to be true. It is Pename's responsibility to substantiate his claims, and there is no need to engage in objections until he has done so on the talk page. --Viriditas 08:51, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Whether he was a newbie or not is most relevant, so I disagree with you on that point, and I've already explained my position on Pename's talk page. And, I have previously discussed which comments I thought were "irrelevant" and/or possibly "frivilous" - above this text.  As for linking to a non-existent article and creating that article after I have pointed it out, I don't understand why that upsets you.  I created the article after you wrote "I've never heard of before...I notice there is no such Wikipedia article!"  Finally, thank you for the link to Pename's claims.  While he obviously has trouble citing specific claims, Alberuni is not going out of his way to help him, either. --Viriditas 09:23, 23 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * Viriditas, I just thought I would pipe in to support Ta bu shi da yu.

 * Let me say the following by way of disclaimer, let me say up front that I am a Muslim and sympathise with Islam. And also not I am not sympathetic to Islamists (which might make me the answer to the "who are liberal Muslims question").

 * But I am also a strong believer in the importance of strict NPOV policies for an encyclopedia to really live up to its name. See, for example, what I am trying to do at Template talk:Timeline of Islamist militancy.

 * Which is why I spend time on Wikipedia. And why I think it is a bit unfair to pick on someone like Ta bu shi da yu when they challenge when they try to get someone to tone down a point of view that is coming through in their work on Wikipedia. —iFaqeer (Talk to me!) 10:25, Nov 23, 2004 (UTC)

Reithy
I think Reithy may have requested new passwords for all the arb candidates. Annoying. Very Verily 00:41, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Template:In the news revert war
I have protected Template:In the news due to the revert war in which you participated. I will unprotect it soon, but I ask you to please not edit war on a main page element again in future. - Mark 03:53, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The message I posted above was the identical message I posted to every other person who reverted more than once. I did that so I would not appear to be taking sides. I'm sure you would prefer that I just warn the other user, but then again you weren't exactly doing much to stop the revert war yourself. I'm sure you are capable of understanding the importance of keeping vandalism and stupid disagreements such as this one off the Main Page, the first page most visitors see when first visiting Wikipedia. - Mark 03:59, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

MacGyverMagic for adminship
I've decided to take the plunge and self-nominate for adminship to make the work I do a lot easier. Please head over to Requests_for_adminship and let your voice be heard. There's no hard feelings if you oppose, just make sure you let me know how I can improve. -- [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 10:35, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your support! [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm|(talk)]] 11:07, Nov 24, 2004 (UTC)

Random question
Does your name mean "He is not a big fish"? Or have I got the wrong tones? - Mustafaa 15:28, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

A quick note to say thanks

I just wanted to drop you a quick note to thank you for your support in my request for adminship and for helping me choose my new name. It was certainly a wild ride, and I really appreciate you taking some time out to contribute. ClockworkSoul 16:36, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Thanks!
I think I'll accept your nomination. Thanks for the kind thoughts and words. - Lucky 6.9 03:11, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

The person who made the comment is, to put it mildly, difficult. I think it's best I withdraw for now. Again, my sincerest thanks. - Lucky 6.9 05:10, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

 * BTW, I do not bite newcomers. Quite the opposite.  Check out User:Poppyhaitian to see what I mean.  Talk to you Monday! - Lucky 6.9 05:16, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Just for the record, about Gzornenplatz's comment on Lucky's nomination - they're hardly "valid stubs". Gzornenplatz demands that the B-Movie Bandit crap (I refuse to even call them stubs, because they're not even that) be kept, and refuses to dedicate any time to even wikify them, let alone expand them into something vaguely resembling a useful stub. Whether they're actually speedy deletion candidates is a grey area, however, so redirecting them (there's usually nothing to merge) has become one way of dealing with them, and to my knowledge, Lucky isn't alone in doing this. Ambi 06:00, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)

title: User talk:Ta bu shi da yu/Archive7


text:
Category:Peninsulas of New Zealand

This category is for articles about peninsulas in New Zealand

title: Category:Peninsulas of New Zealand


text:
User:Reene/LaLaVfD

This was taken from Votes for deletion/La La.

-

 * Comment. Since my vote always seems to be ignored I thought I would try to persuade people why this should be kept and not deleted,trimmed, or merged. It's very simple.  This article is VERY interesting to the general public.  Most of the people I know has heard of this single and I know it's going to be a one of Ashlee's biggest hits!  I'll try an analogy to get you guys to see what this article means to us.  Would any normal guy want to have his penis removed, trimmed, or mutilated?  This article to us fans, is like a penis to a guy.  It's very important and means a lot to us. I hope this convinces some of you to vote to keep.  Thank you for reading this.  Angel Tiger 00:25, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * Angel Tiger, I do sympathise with you. If this was the Ashlee Simpson Fanclub site, your argument would be overwhelming. But you are right. The article is a load of cock. Dr Zen 00:43, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 * I've heard of people like you, but I only thought they existed in ghost stories. You're probably the type that believed Ashlee actually lip synchs and that Lorne Michaels was telling the truth when he said on 60 Minutes that he never had a musical guest lip synch on SNL during their performance.  I bet if it was up to you, the Ashlee Simpson article would be tainted with Lorne Michaels' lies about the incident.  I'm glad to see that the article isn't and it will never contain those lies.  You're a mean person and deserve terrible things to happen to you.  If it was up to me, I would have voted to delete something precious to you, like your penis. *walks away to cool off* Angel Tiger 00:57, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

-

title: User:Reene/LaLaVfD


text:
Resonance Raman spectroscopy

Resonance Raman spectroscopy (RR spectroscopy or RRS) is a variant of Raman spectroscopy in which the incident photon energy is close in energy to an electronic transition of a compound or material under examination. This similarity in energy (resonance) leads to greatly increased intensity of the Raman scattering of certain vibrational modes, compared to ordinary Raman spectroscopy.

Resonance Raman spectroscopy has much greater sensitivity than non-resonance Raman spectroscopy, allowing for the analysis of compounds with inherently weak Raman scattering intensities, or at very low concentrations. It also selectively enhances only certain molecular vibrations (those of the chemical group undergoing the electronic transition), which simplifies spectra. For large molecules such as proteins, this selectivity helps to identify vibrational modes of specific parts of the molecule or protein, such as the heme unit within myoglobin. Resonance Raman spectroscopy has been used in the characterization of inorganic compounds and complexes, proteins, nucleic acids, pigments, and in archaeology and art history.

Theory
In Raman scattering, photons collide with a sample and are scattered with a difference in energy: The scattered photons may be higher or lower in energy (have a shorter or longer wavelength) than the incident photons. This difference in energy is caused by excitation of the sample to a higher or lower vibrational energy level: if the sample was initially in an excited vibrational state, the scattered photon may be higher in energy than the incident photon (anti-Stokes Raman scattering). Otherwise, the scattered photon has a lower module of energy than the incoming photon (Stokes Raman scattering). Among the two phenomena, Stokes shift and anti-Stokes shift, the former is the most likely to occur. As a consequence, the relative intensity of Raman spectra acquired in Stokes mode is more intense than the other. For most materials, Raman scattering is extremely weak compared to Rayleigh scattering, in which light is scattered without loss of energy. Raman-scattered light, which contains information about vibrational transitions, is therefore difficult to observe for many substances.

Resonance Raman spectroscopy takes advantage of an increase in the intensity of Raman scattering when the incident photons match the energy of an electronic transition. If the energy of the photon striking the sample is equal or close to that of an electronic transition in the sample, certain Raman-active vibrational modes—those producing nuclear displacement in the same direction as the electronic transition —will exhibit greatly enhanced scattering, up to 106-fold compared to nonresonance Raman. For totally symmetric modes, this increased scattering intensity results from so-called A-term or Franck-Condon scattering, due to the nonzero Franck-Condon overlaps between ground and excited states. Nontotally symmetric modes may also be enhanced by B-term or Herzberg-Teller scattering, if the symmetry of the mode is contained in the direct product of the two electronic state symmetries. Resonance enhancement is most apparent in the case of π-π* transitions and least for metal centered (d–d) transitions. Like ordinary Raman spectroscopy, RRS observes vibrational transitions producing a nonzero change in the polarizability of the molecule or material being studied.

Resonance Raman scattering differs from fluorescence in that it occurs without vibrational relaxation during the lifetime of the excited electronic state. It thus exhibits much narrower line widths than fluorescence. However, fluorescence and resonance Raman scattering co-occur in many materials, and interference from fluorescence may complicate the collection of resonance Raman spectra.

Variants
Typically, resonance Raman spectroscopy is performed in the same manner as ordinary Raman spectroscopy, using a single laser light source to excite the sample. The difference is the choice of the laser wavelength, which must be selected to match the energy of an electronic transition in the sample. A tunable laser is thus often used for resonance Raman spectroscopy, since a single laser can be used to generate many possible excitation wavelengths to match different samples. By using multiple lasers, pulsed lasers, and/or certain sample preparation techniques, a range of more sophisticated variants of RRS can be performed, including:

 * Time-resolved resonance Raman spectroscopy: By using pulsed lasers with a controllable delay between pulses, resonance Raman spectroscopy can be used to monitor changes in the sample over time, following a laser-induced photochemical change or temperature increase. This method has been used to examine the dynamics of excited electronic states, binding of oxygen or other gases to heme-containing proteins, and protein dynamics.

 * Resonance hyper-Raman spectroscopy: Excitation of the sample occurs by two-photon absorption, rather than by absorption of a single photon. This arrangement allows for excitation of modes that are forbidden in ordinary resonance Raman spectroscopy, with intensity enhancement due to resonance, and also simplifies collection of scattered light.  It is especially useful for molecules that are both polar and polarizable.

 * Surface-enhanced resonance Raman spectroscopy: A hybrid of RRS and surface-enhanced Raman scattering. The sample is applied to conducting nanoparticles and a laser matching the surface plasmon resonance of the nanoparticles is used for excitation.  If the wavelength of the surface plasmon matches that of an electronic transition in the sample, the Raman scattering will be greatly enhanced compared to ordinary RRS.

 * Resonance Raman microscopy: A microscope is used to focus the excitation laser onto a particular point in the sample, and spectra are collected for many such points. The Raman intensity at different points can then be assembled into a microscopic image of the sample.  By appropriate choice of excitation wavelength, a microscopic map of the distribution only of a component of interest can be made.

Applications
Because of its selectivity and sensitivity, resonance Raman spectroscopy is typically used to study molecular vibrations in compounds that would have very weak and/or complex Raman spectra in the absence of resonance enhancement. Like ordinary Raman spectroscopy, resonance Raman is compatible with samples in water, which has a very weak scattering intensity and little contribution to spectra. However, the need for an excitation laser with a wavelength matching that of an electronic transition in the analyte of interest somewhat limits the applicability of the method.

Pigments and Dyes
Dyes and pigments, all of which exhibit electronic transitions in the visible part of the electromagnetic spectrum, were among the first substances to be studied by resonance Raman spectroscopy. Resonance Raman spectra of beta-carotene and lycopene in intact plant samples were reported in 1970. Since then, the method has been used to noninvasively measure levels of these nutrients in human skin. The resonance Raman spectra of other polyene pigments, such as spheroidene and retinal, have been used to identify differences in chromophore conformation in photoactive proteins. Resonance Raman spectroscopy has been used in archaeology to identify dyes and pigments in cultural artifacts, and the ability of RRS to distinguish different modern inks and dyes has found application in forensic science.

Proteins
Proteins have been widely examined by resonance Raman spectroscopy. Protein-bound cofactors that absorb in the visible wavelength range, such as heme, flavins, or transition metal complexes, can be examined by RRS with minimal spectral overlap from the rest of the molecule. This method has been used to examine gas binding in hemeproteins and the catalytic cycle of various enzymes. Using ultraviolet laser excitation, it is possible to selectively excite the sidechains of aromatic amino acids (phenylalanine, tyrosine, and tryptophan) to deduce the local environment and hydrogen-bonding interactions by these residues. With shorter-wavelength ("deep") ultraviolet excitation, it is also possible to excite the peptide bonds of a protein in order to examine secondary structure. Protein folding and denaturation have been examined using deep-UV resonance Raman spectroscopy of the polypeptide backbone, with excitation wavelengths shorter than 200 nm.

Nucleic acids and viruses
Resonance Raman spectroscopy with ultraviolet excitation can be used to examine the chemistry, structure, and intermolecular interactions of nucleic acids, specifically the bases. Interactions between nucleic acids and DNA-binding compounds such as drugs can be examined by selectively exciting either the nucleobases or the drug itself. The resonance Raman spectra of DNA can be used to identify bacterial DNA in living cells, and to quantitate DNA under different culture conditions, and even to distinguish different bacterial species. Viruses have also been studied using UV resonance Raman spectroscopy; the method has the capability to separately interrogate the structure of the nucleic acid or capsid protein components of the virus, through the choice of the appropriate excitation wavelength.

Nanomaterials
Resonance Raman spectroscopy has also been used to characterize the structure and photophysical properties of nanoparticles. Using lasers tuned to the visible and near-infrared electronic transitions of carbon nanotubes, it is possible to enhance structure-sensitive vibrational bands of the nanotubes. Nanowires of inorganic semiconductor materials including gallium phosphide and carbon-encapsulated mercury telluride have also been shown to exhibit resonance Raman spectra with visible excitation light.

title: Resonance Raman spectroscopy


text:
Chris Slade

Chris Slade (born Christopher Slade Rees; 30 October 1946) is a Welsh drummer, who is perhaps best known for playing for Manfred Mann's Earth Band from its inception in 1971 to 1978 on eight albums, and AC/DC, for which he drummed from 1989 to 1994 and performed on the 1990 album The Razors Edge. He returned to AC/DC in February 2015 to replace Phil Rudd for the "Rock or Bust World Tour". Slade has also played with Tom Jones, Toomorrow, Uriah Heep, The Firm, and Asia.

Early life and career
Slade was born Christopher Rees in Pontypridd, Glamorgan, South Wales. He has worked with Gary Numan, Tom Jones, Olivia Newton-John (as co-members of the band Toomorrow), and Uriah Heep. Slade was an original founding member of Manfred Mann's Earth Band, playing on their eight studio albums released from 1972 to 1978.

In the mid-1980s Slade played with Paul Rodgers and Jimmy Page in The Firm. He has played with Pink Floyd's David Gilmour, and Gary Moore on his 1989 world tour.

Slade received his highest exposure in November 1989 when he was asked to join AC/DC after drummer Simon Wright had departed. AC/DC were signed to the same management company as Gary Moore, with whom Slade had just finished touring. The Young brothers (Angus and Malcolm) initially hired Slade only temporarily through management, then asked him–during the recording of the only album he made with them – to join the band. Slade played on The Razors Edge album in 1990 and the accompanying world tour, and the "Big Gun" single released in 1993. According to Slade, after working on demos for the following album, Ballbreaker, Malcolm Young called Slade and told him they wanted to try a reunion with former drummer Phil Rudd. Slade replied, "That's me out then, I'm gone." Young said that he wanted to keep Slade on hand if Rudd's return did not work out, but Slade refused. However he made statements that he still got on well with AC/DC and "it was an honour and a privilege to play with those guys".

After his departure Slade spent a few years living in the UK countryside, before receiving a call from Geoff Downes of the British progressive rock group Asia. Slade played with Asia for six years, before departing in September 2005.

Slade has fronted an AC/DC tribute band, Chris Slade Steel Circle, and is currently touring the World with THE CHRIS SLADE TIMELINE – a band formed to celebrate 50 years as a rock drummer. The band takes music from all aspects of his lengthy career and has appeared at major festivals including Hellfest, 24 Hours of Le Mans, Harley Davidson Aquitaine, and Saint Tropez and is the only rock band to play the Moscow Olympic Stadium for the Kremlin Cup tennis tournament.

Return to AC/DC
Speculation regarding Slade's return to AC/DC started shortly after Phil Rudd's legal troubles became public. In a December 2014 podcast by Chris Jericho, Jericho mentioned that he had it on good authority that Slade would be returning to AC/DC.

Slade was photographed signing albums with the band on 7 February 2015.

After the photo appeared publicly, Slade finally admitted that he was going to be the band's drummer and admitted to secrecy surrounding his return, and stated that it was done for the right reasons. The band issued a statement, "Chris Slade will be on drums for the upcoming Rock or Bust world tour.".

Since that time, in addition to playing live, Slade has appeared in all promotional photos taken with the band and appeared in the music video for the single "Rock the Blues Away". In late April 2015 AC/DC's official website listed him as the band's drummer.

On 30 September 2020, his role within the band was made clear: Phil Rudd was returning to AC/DC on the drums, effectively making Slade leave the band for a second time. In the same announcement, Brian Johnson and Cliff Williams were also returning to the band.

Equipment
Slade endorses Drum Workshop drums, pedals and hardware, Paiste cymbals, Remo drumheads, LP percussion and London drumsticks. Before switching to DW, he previously endorsed Pearl drums, pedals and hardware.

With Tom Jones

 * Along Came Jones (1965)
 * A-Tom-ic Jones (1966)
 * From The Heart (1966)
 * Green, Green Grass of Home (1967)
 * Live: at the Talk of the Town (1967)
 * 13 Smash Hits (1967)
 * Delilah (1968)
 * Tom Jones Live in Las Vegas (1969)

With Toomorrow

 * Toomorrow (1970)

With Tom Paxton

 * How Come The Sun (1971)

With Manfred Mann's Earth Band

 * Manfred Mann's Earth Band (1972)
 * Glorified Magnified (1972)
 * Messin' (1973)
 * Solar Fire (1973)
 * The Good Earth (1974)
 * Nightingales & Bombers (1975)
 * The Roaring Silence (1976)
 * Watch (1978)

With Terra Nova

 * Terra Nova (1980)

With Kai Olsson

 * Crazy Love (1979)

With Frankie Miller

 * Falling in Love (1979)

With Uriah Heep

 * Conquest (1980)

With Gary Numan

 * I, Assassin (1982)

With Denny Laine

 * Anyone Can Fly (1982)

With David Gilmour

 * David Gilmour Live 1984 (1984)

With The Firm

 * The Firm (1985)
 * Mean Business (1986)

With AC/DC

 * The Razors Edge (1990)
 * Live at Donington (1992)
 * AC/DC Live (1992)
 * "Big Gun" (1993)

With Asia

 * Aura (2001)
 * Silent Nation (2004)

With Bloodstock

 * Creator of Worlds

With Damage Control

 * Damage Control (2007)
 * Raw (2008)

With MIWA

 * My Wish Is Your Command (2011)
 * Reach Out and Touch Me (2018)

title: Chris Slade


text:
Wikipedia:Featured picture candidates/Tradesecretwax

Tradesecretwax
"Trade Secret" Wax on the hood of a car by jeff2417 (see Acura RSX) - jeff2417 6 Dec 2004, 00:38 (UTC)
 * support self nomination. - jeff2417 6 Dec 2004, 00:38 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Upside down, unused image. Nice shot, but not spectacular. -- Chris 73 Talk 08:09, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * Oppose. In this composition the image is not at all brilliant, also Featured Pictures need to illustrate an article, which article would this image illustrate really well? -- [[User:Solitude|Solitude\talk]] 08:19, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Pictures "should illustrate a Wikipedia article in such a way as to add significantly to that article".Where's the article? - Adrian Pingstone 10:14, 6 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Neutrality/talk 03:12, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)
 * Oppose. Enochlau 06:15, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
 * Oppose Elijah 19:44, 2004 Dec 13 (UTC)
 * Not promoted: +1/-6 -- Solipsist 20:52, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)