text:
Talk:Miroslav Klose

Record of goals in the world cup
It is of interest to compare the record of most goals in world cups, it is customary to compare records by other record holders and similar records, if anything the information could be moved to a different section but not removed.

Father's nationality
His father is half-German?

Where is the evidence?

 * It is a well known fact in Germany. His family moved to Germany as "Aussiedler", which means Germans or people with German roots who live in other countries but have the birthright to emigrate to the Federal Republic. They would not have been able to do so if the father hadn't been part German. -- Imladros 15:41 MEZ 10.07.2006

 * (Upper) Silesians of German origin. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:16B8:2A6A:E900:7C7D:2E84:D4A9:443E (talk) 20:40, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

In interviews, he has only stated his father was German, and I've seen no information directly from him stating his father was "half German" or "one millionth German" or whatever, just German. So why is he listed as half German? Changing it until someone can present evidence directly from Miro revealing otherwise Ernham 18:24, 4 August 2006 (UTC) ernham During the communist times, everyone was trying to find some evidence that someone in his family was German in order to migrate to the west. Some people based this evidence on the fact that their father, grandfather or great grandfather served in German army. Well when Germans particion Poland and later annexed Upper Silesia every male served in German Army so it was easy to proof German ethnicity. The same would be true if Germans tried to claim Polish nationality as a large number of them have roots in areas that are part of Poland. Therefore this should be based on the identity of ones declaration and not on where they were born or because they left communism claiming German ancestry. If his family was of true German ethincy they would speak German at home and Klose would not speak Polish as his first language. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.15.218.190 (talk) 19:58, 13 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Non-sense: "Well when Germans particion Poland and later annexed Upper Silesia " Is it a JOKE ?
 * Good friendly advice (for free): read something (book or so) about Silesia´s history. :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:16B8:2A6A:E900:7C7D:2E84:D4A9:443E (talk) 20:43, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 * "If his family was of true German ethincy they would speak German at home and Klose would not speak Polish as his first language."
 * If, if, if. If there weren´t discrimination and other systematic all-level fouls against all German - especially the language.
 * Realy, you should learn more about the bad time between 1945 and 1980/90 in Silesia.
 * Or should just forget the proPolish propaganda in your Polish school, church, media, ... and your little fanatic head. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:16B8:2A6A:E900:7C7D:2E84:D4A9:443E (talk) 20:50, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Polish national team?
I removed the following sentence until a citation can be found: "The Polish national coach wanted him for the Polish national team but he declined, preferring to wait for Germany." for me it is obvious that the Polish national coach would never officialy make such an offer (an Wikipedia should not contain rumors) if he knew that Klose is also wanted by the German national team. Even if Klose feels Polish the career you can make and the amount of money you can earn playing proffessional futball in Poland and in Germany is hard to compare. Mieciu K 12:42, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Just read his official website:

http://www.miroslav-klose.de/lebenslauf.html

Im Januar 2001 reiste sogar Polens Nationaltrainer Jerzy Engel in die Pfalz, um den Stürmer zu überreden, in der polnischen Nationalmannschaft zu spielen. Denn Klose hatte nie auf seine polnische Staatsbürgerschaft verzichtet. Doch dieser winkte ab: "Ich habe einen deutschen Pass, und wenn es so weiter läuft, habe ich eine Chance auf eine Berufung durch Rudi Völler."

Then changes happend rapidly. In January 2001 the national coach Jerzy Engel travelled from Poland to the Pfalz, to persuade him to play for the Polish national team, since Klose still has the Polish nationality. But he declined: "I have a German passport, and if things are still running this way, I have a chance to play for Rudi Völler." It worked out, and how. Klose went his successful way and is today an idol in the Pfalz. Privately he enjoyes playing tennis and tabletennis.

http://www.miroslav-klose.de/en/lebenslauf.html
 * Thanks, that's a good source, I have added the reference and everything is fine now. Mieciu K 18:00, 11 July 2006 (UTC)

Pawel, if his father believes he's not Polish, how come you are so sure of that? Until now, you haven't given any reason for this. All you do is state it. Before you insist on it next time, I'd like to see any proof of that. And please don't come up with something like »write an article on his father's beliefs« or »his father was half-Polish, even if he doesnt like it, besides this is an article about Miro, not dad«, because if you don't like writing about him, why do you focus on him so much?City-17 18:49, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Please understand the article you posted in the proper context. He doesnt want to be constantly regarded as a Pole, which is natural, for Germans tend to view him as a foreigner (a Pole) instead as an equal German national, a similar problem with all "Auslandsdeutsche", which doesnt mean he denies being half-Polish. It's more of a protest against only being labeled a Pole, or as certain German media would put it "Poland's best gift to Germany". The form you chose is misleading and doesnt mention that his Dad is from a mixed background. Pawel z Niepolomic 19:01, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

 * The article says he's from a German family and that he doesn't want to be seen as a Pole. That's what I adopted and that doesn't require a dispute whether he's half, one third, or 56.6235% a German. By the way, what exactly tells you that he's half-German? For your information, like Batman2005 you reverted to your reversion way too often and I'm filling out the form to make you stop it.City-17 19:16, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

 * My information comes from the German Wikipedia. The truth is he doesnt "come from a German family", but a Polish one also. That's why he probably has relatives here, notwithstanding his 100% Polish mother and her family. Pawel z Niepolomic 19:25, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Don't use information from Wikipedia to justify the same information in Wikipedia. Maybe the German Wikipedia also relies on the information of the English Wikipedia.City-17 19:31, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

 * This is true, we need to be careful to use third-party sources, especially here. Unfortunately (at least for me since my German is not that good) I can't seem to find anything definitive on this issue after a (admittedly cursory) Google search.  Does anyone have any English links for this information?  This is of course not necessary but would be helpful. -- Deville (Talk) 04:15, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

 * Please explain City-17 how his father's self-identification issues are relevant to an article about Miroslav. Pawel z Niepolomic 15:34, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * You simply want to present him as a Pole, which is untrue. Information like these prevent others from also mistaking his family as Polish instead of Silesian or German.City-17 16:45, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
 * Likewise it seems like you want to portrait him as of German origin? First of all his mother is Polish. Secondly, you are missing the point about his father. Josef Klose states in Fakt.pl, that he regards himself as a Silesian. That doesn't make him German, that doesn't make him Polish. It would also be a twisted argument to call Josef Klose German, since he marries Polish and speaks Polish at home. Also he should not be called Polish, belonging to a minority in Poland and living in Germany. In fact the point is, that he doesn't want to be used for political purposes from German or Polish sides. Heimart people are using this opportunity to promote their cause, and likewise Poles wants to make him 100% Polish, because they are proud to finally see a good Polish footballer ksjohansen 11:21, 04 July 2010 (UTC)

You can only apply for Aussiedler status if you self-indentify as German and claim to have preserved your family's German heritage. A regional Silesian identity alone is not sufficient. So Klose's parents must have claimed to be members the German nation. --77.177.107.158 (talk) 18:18, 10 June 2012 (UTC)

German native from SIlesia?
He's not German, Polish! From Silesia, but not born as a German Pole in Silesia, like many Sliesians of German nation or origin. Kowalmistrz 19:13, 10 March 2007 (UTC)

He is not Polish! He is SILESIAN. But you polish think that we (as Silesian) don't exist. It's your problem not ours 80.49.150.73 14:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

 * @Kowalmistrz: please do not agitate. Hedre is no pisolandia. :-) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2001:16B8:2A6A:E900:7C7D:2E84:D4A9:443E (talk) 20:54, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

goals
How come wikipedia doesn't count friendly goals —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.104.125.55 (talk • contribs) 20:57, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

Do goals from UEFA Cup count? I know he scored 2 against Red Star and I also know he has scored 8 goals in the Bundesliga so wouldn't that be 10 goals in 9 matches? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 206.45.167.126 (talk) 01:45, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Bayern Munich Section
I don't think updating every single match and goal Klose scores is needed. Just makes the page look irrelevent and unappealing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Petrosian63 (talk • contribs) 04:25, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Recent edits
OK, the article is starting to look like a mess. To those involved: Thank you and I am awaiting comments. Tymek (talk) 13:11, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * please provide sources to support the claim of his mother's alleged German ancestry,
 * please do not add information on history of Opole and Upper Silesia, as this is not relevant to the article,
 * the article is not about Jozef Klose (In 2006 interviews for German Süddeutsche Zeitung[3] and Polish tabloid Fakt, Josef Klose stated that he does not want to be regarded as Polish), please move this information to the Jozef Klose article,
 * please stop adding a German name of Opole. The city is not bilingual, and we are not writing article on Opole.

 * The 20th century history of Oppeln/Silesia and the resulting background of Josef Klose is 100% relevant to the bio of Miro, as is Josef's attidude towards Poland. The Kloses have only left their home because Poland has occupied it in 1945. He said: "Und Warschau sollte endlich lernen, dass die Menschen in Oberschlesien anders ticken" - "and Warsaw should finally learn that the people in Upper Silesia are different". Removing 20th century history and adding 10th century claims is WP:UNDUE, don't do that again. -- Matthead Discuß   17:24, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thanks Matthead for your opinion, obviously we disagree with each other. Please do not delete information added by me, and I still think that adding info about history of Upper Silesia as well as utterances of Jozef Klose have nothing to do with the article. Awaiting opinions of uninvolved users. BTW the Kloses left their home because Jozef got a contract in France, and as you see, Miroslaw prefers to speak the language of Polish occupiers of Silesia at his German home, which should tell you something. Tymek (talk) 18:59, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Just a very friendly reminder, Tymek: Miro Klose plays for Germany, and lives in Germany, just like his parents - and Lukas Podolski, who said that he has no Polish passport, thus it could not be taken away by Polish politicians. And Silesians spoke German and Slavic dialects centuries before Polish communists arrived there in 1945, hiding behind Soviet tanks. -- Matthead Discuß   20:58, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
 * Thank you for your friendly reminder, which nevertheless has nothing to do with the Miroslaw Klose article. I am still awaiting opinions of disinterested users. Opinions of the article and my remarks here, not of subjects unrelated to it. Tymek (talk) 21:39, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Podolski said that he do not have Polish passport, which do not means that he do not have Polish citizenship. many people lives outside of Poland, even they do not have Polish passport, they still have Polish citizenship because they are officialy did not quit Polsh citizenship. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chelsea Kayla (talk • contribs) 20:31, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

History of Silesia is mostly irrelevant here. History of his family, and his opinions, are more relevant, of course.--Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus 23:19, 15 June 2008 (UTC)

Polish
How often do people feel the need to state that Klose was born in Poland? One can read it five times now that he was "Polish born", "born in Upper Silesia, Poland" (2 times), "Polish by birth", "played against the country of his birth, Poland" etc!

This looks ridiculous and like inflating ones national ego. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kalifat (talk • contribs) 02:04, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

add to that the mentioning of "his mother was a member of Poland's handball team", his father played football in Poland before leaving communist Poland", his "polish-born wife" etc. Come on, shouldn't we also mention that he is a human, living on earth? It's absurd. Just think about it. dziękuję! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kalifat (talk • contribs) 02:12, 10 August 2009 (UTC)

 * Yes, the article goes to great lengths to promote his connection to Poland. Something which I find annoying. I have noticed a similar problem in several biographical articles: where the subject of the article has a connection to Poland, this is being promoted aggressively for some reason. Tropical wind (talk) 19:52, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

http://www.przegladsportowy.pl/pilka-nozna,pilka-nozna-miroslav-klose-o-polsce-i-grze-dla-reprezentacji-niemiec,artykul,95253,1,279.html

The interview with Klose (In Polish) "» Może pan odpowiedzieć na pytanie, czy Miroslav Klose jest Niemcem, czy Polakiem? To bardzo trudne. Oba te kraje są dla mnie bardzo ważne. W Polsce się urodziłem, mam tu jeszcze rodzinę. Ale od ponad dwudziestu lat żyję w Niemczech, gdzie dobrze mi się powodzi i odnoszę sporo sukcesów. Dlatego nie odpowiem na to pytanie."

"Can you answer the question, whether Miroslav Klose is German, or Polish?" "This is very difficult. Both those countries are very important to me. I was born in Poland, I have still a family here. But since 20 years I live in Germany, where I have goof fortune and where I got many successes. That's why __I WON"T ANSWER THIS QUESTION__"

If Miroslav Klose himself refuses to answer whether he is German or Polish, why some editors insist so much of stressing he is ethnic German (or half-Polish, half-German, Silesian, Polish, or whatever?) --- szopen — Preceding unsigned comment added by 150.254.130.180 (talk) 10:11, 14 July 2014 (UTC)
 * The question of why it's necessary to stress ethic German, is that what qualifies him to play for Germany. Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:41, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Full name
Recently, Klose's full name was changed in this article from Miroslav Marian Klose to Miroslav Josef Klose. Since this is sourced, I'm not going to revert it. However, a search for the former yields a little under 3 times more than for the latter: Marian vs. Josef. Which is correct? Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 10:44, 8 November 2010 (UTC)

Week Long protection request.
Hi. It's rumored that he's going to Lazio. That's fine and all, and updated sources is that a deal is close to being finalized, however, until it is 100% confirmed, can we get a semi-protection thing on this page. It's being changed every 2 minutes and it's getting frustrating having to revert all the time. Cheers Nath1991 (talk) 13:49, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

He signed for Lazio - http://www.sslazio.it/news/news/1-news/1561-comunicato.html (italian) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Manub (talk • contribs) 22:34, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Opole / Oppeln
The general convention is to use modern names http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names) Illraute changed his birthplace from Opole to the Germanized name of Oppeln, citing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Gdansk/Vote#Results_on_VOTE:_Biographies However, this overrides the convention to use modern names only if you can show that the person is clearly German. According to Klose, his family is Polish-speaking. He knew only two words of German until age eight when the family moved to Germany. http://www.spiegel.de/deinspiegel/0,1518,729604,00.html He says he continues to speak Polish at home with his family and the kids learn German in school: http://www.spiegel.de/spiegel/print/d-54683212.html So, since Klose was born in 1978 when the city was known as Opole and he himself is natively Polish-speaking, it does not make sense to use the Germanized name of the city.Hergilfs (talk) 20:22, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

 * Klose is a German international, and holds German citizenship only. Also Klose's father is an ethnic German and holds German nationality. please see: WP:MOSBIO → Opening paragraph → 3.1. as well as Gdansk-VOTE:_Biographies --IIIraute (talk) 21:03, 23 May 2012 (UTC)

 * 3.1 does not state that place names not in use at the time of birth should be altered to the person's current citizenship. Gdansk-VOTE favors using the current name after 1945 except in cases where the person is clearly German. Miroslav Klose does not have Polish citizenship now, sure, but he did before and he has stated that he did not know German until he was eight. So it's simply not logical to list his birthplace in the German form. The family is natively Polish-speaking, regardless of the father's ethnicity. Hergilfs (talk) 05:10, 26 May 2012 (UTC)

Neutral POV
"However, the occasion was tainted by a small section of radical Lazio fans holding a sign adapted from a motto used by the Nazis." The use of the word "tainted" indicates a non-neutral POV, and should be fixed. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 146.115.137.78 (talk) 22:27, 7 May 2013 (UTC)
 * Fixed to what? Personally, I think the Lazio fans should all be fixed, but I digress. Do you have a more neutral wording you would like to see used there? Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:38, 7 May 2013 (UTC)

5 goals in a match
Klose wasn't the first player to mark 5 goals in a World Cup match; Oleg Salenko already did it during Russia-Cameroon in World Cup'94...anyway I can't say if Salenko was the first at all in doing that. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2.33.93.13 (talk) 20:53, 23 June 2014 (UTC)
 * I don't see what you're stating. The article states that Teófilo Cubillas did it before him. That is referenced, and that's what we need to support that Salenko did. Walter Görlitz (talk) 21:43, 23 June 2014 (UTC)

FIFA 2014 World Cup soccer
After he scores a goal against Brazil in the semi-finals, he is substituted out (to not pile on more goals, already 5-0) and the announcer tells about him: "He is the all-time leading scorer in the World Cup with 16 goals." Plus color commentary: "No ego at all, I am told; you can leave him out of the game and he is just as happy in the background, helping youngsters." Further, "He is now second on the list all-time appearances in world cup competition." -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 21:27, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * PS: Final score is 7-1 and we'll see what Klose does in the final match. -- Charles Edwin Shipp (talk) 23:59, 8 July 2014 (UTC)
 * Never heard of a 7-1 score, amazing. What is Misoslav's salary?--Oxforduniversity1 (talk) 22:27, 9 July 2014 (UTC)

Edit request
Please remove: "His name was then legally changed to Miroslav." in the "Background and personal life" section. This sentence was added recently, does not make any sense and is not supported by a source.--77.181.236.80 (talk) 16:49, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

✅ - Arjayay (talk) 19:21, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Thank you. --77.181.236.80 (talk) 21:47, 11 July 2014 (UTC)

Silesian city
To me the phrase "the Silesian city of Opole, Poland" suggests that Silesian cities can be anywhere, like Chinatowns, and this one happens to be in Poland. What would be wrong with "Opole, Upper Silesia, Poland"? —Tamfang (talk) 20:23, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

 * That's why there's a link to Silesia, so that you can know what it means. And what it means, at least to me, is not a geographic region, as in Upper Silesia, but rather an historical region whose borders are now mostly inside of Poland, with smaller parts in the Czech Republic and Germany. If it were meant to be Upper Silesia, there would have been a link to that, but it's meant to show that even though the city is inside of Poland, it has history that associates it to modern day Germany more than modern day Poland, being a Prussian and German area for much of the last 250 years. It helps to explain why Klose is more closely associated with Germany than Poland. Walter Görlitz (talk) 22:12, 12 July 2014 (UTC)

 * I don't agree that the presence of a link to Silesia conclusively lets us "know what it means" in context. "Silesian city" could mean "city in Silesia" (in which case, again, why not say so explicitly?) or "city founded by Silesians".  Well, I won't belabor the point further.
 * By the way, what problem did you seek to correct or ameliorate by adding colons to my links? They seem to have no effect. —Tamfang (talk) 01:46, 6 September 2014 (UTC)
 * The best wording would be "the city of Opole, Poland, which was part of the region historically known as Selisia."
 * The colons don't break the links to the article but they prevent the article from linking back to this talk page. Walter Görlitz (talk) 02:46, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

 * I.e., it doesn't show up in "What links here". Okay. —Tamfang (talk) 04:48, 8 September 2014 (UTC)

German name
Jaellee, "formerly known by its German name, Oppeln" is relevant because Klose comes from an ethnic German family, one of the relatively few not expelled after WWII. This relates today to the fact that, though born in present-day Poland, he plays for the German National Team. Sca (talk) 00:39, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

 * The paragraph clearly says that his father was an ethnic German who was not expelled. The German name of the city where he was born does not add relevant information. In my opinion, such additions emphasize the former German-ness of the city unduly. If a reader wants to find out more about Opole he can read the article about it. --Jaellee (talk) 10:33, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

 * How can you rationally argue that the former German name of a formerly German town, from which an ethnic-German athlete playing for the German national team hails, is not relevant? Absurd. Most casual English-language readers, particularly sports fans, will not be familiar with the post-1945 history of Poland — the border changes, population transfers, etc.
 * I don't do revert wars. Kindly revert it yourself. Dziękuje. Sca (talk) 12:55, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

 * Even if you doubt it, I do argue rationally. You are right, "most casual English-language readers, particularly sports fans, will not be familiar with the post-1945 history of Poland". But this article is about the football player Klose who was born in city somewhere in Poland and not about the border changes. If readers want more details about it, the can read about it in Opole. It is already mentioned in the section "Background and personal life" that his father was a ethnic German and German national. The name of the town ist not relevant in this case. --Jaellee (talk) 23:22, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Edit request
The content that was added here has a reference that uses wikipedia/this article as only reference. How can wikipedia reference itself? Please remove. Also, his fathers name is Josef Klose, and not "Kloze". --77.5.102.29 (talk) 04:46, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

✅ The reference there is http://www.gfdb.com/Player.6585.Miroslav-Klose.aspx and it was simply moved from elsewhere in the article, and you're right, it's an earlier version of this article. A second reference has since been added. As for "Kloze", the only place that's listed is in the lede and in relation to the subject and only an earlier version of Wikipedia supported that. Also removed. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:32, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Thanks --77.181.254.18 (talk) 05:40, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 13 July 2014
68.148.92.134 (talk) 05:16, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Moroslav was born in 1978 you have him playing soccer for poland that same year ... You need to fix this please !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! See below Thank you

--- Background and personal life

Klose was born in the Silesian city of Opole, Poland, (formerly known by its German name, Oppeln). Both of his parents were professional athletes.[11] His father, Josef Klose, was a professional footballer who played for Odra Opole, before leaving communist Poland in 1978 to play for French team AJ Auxerre.

❌ The sentence is clearly about his father not the subject of this article. If you would like to create a new sentence or two so that's more clear to you, we could consider adding it. Walter Görlitz (talk) 05:25, 13 July 2014 (UTC)

Gold, silver and bronze, an all-German club.
Apparently at least Franz Beckenbauer, Sepp Maier and Wolfgang Overath (1966–1974) all have gold, silver and bronze, it seems Gerd Müller was not part of the 1966 squad, and Uwe Seeler, could not find out if he was in the winning squad of 1954. At least he begun in the national team that year, but if he did not play in the World Cup, then he’s not in this club. Apanuggpak (talk) 03:26, 14 July 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 July 2014
Please change Klose's 16th goal celebration picture to this (http://e2.365dm.com/14/07/768x432/Brazil-v-Germany-Miroslav-Klose-World-Cup-cel_3169978.jpg?20140708214408) because it is a direct shot of him, and the current photo is not. It barely even features him.

24.27.22.116 (talk) 08:35, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

 * ❌ Please read Image use policy. Wikipedia can only use "free" images and free usually does not mean "found somewhere in the internet and it didn't cost me anything". As long as the copyright owner of a photo hasn't released it under a free license, the photo cannot be used. --Jaellee (talk) 09:25, 17 July 2014 (UTC)

RfC on faith
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Miroslav_Klose&oldid=623137629&diff=prev: The paragraph begins by discussing the subject's faith and then supports it with a a phrase of him meeting the Pope emeritus. It's not simply about two individuals meeting. How much do we keep? Walter Görlitz (talk) 13:50, 28 August 2014 (UTC)
 * Well, I don't see why there shouldn't be a short sentence on his faith, if the part about meeting the pope is unacceptable. The sources are a bit weird but they should do. – FenixFeather  (talk)(Contribs) 05:09, 7 September 2014 (UTC)

 * I would not include the bit about meeting the pope. To me, it does sound like two individuals met.  I guess I'm neutral about profession of faith.  It could be included if there's consensus, but I personally wouldn't have added it. NinjaRobotPirate (talk) 03:53, 11 September 2014 (UTC)
 * Bit about pope not needed - irrelevant information --  NickGibson3900  Talk 00:08, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Personal records
I think this section has many problems. It is vague, badly written (e.g. with grammatical errors), and lacks, arguably, any significance. This can be solved by either truncation, clarification or adding relevant citations. Will see what (little) I can do. Asoccer maniac (talk) 01:19, 1 October 2014 (UTC)

External links modified
Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 1 one external link on Miroslav Klose. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
 * Added archive https://web.archive.org/20080611234525/http://www.euro2008.pl:80/news/miroslav_klose_gdyby_cie_si_nie_sp_nili__59295.html to http://www.euro2008.pl/news/miroslav_klose_gdyby_cie_si_nie_sp_nili__59295.html

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Wife's nationality
It's lovely that Albanian nationalists want to promote Klose's wife's Albanian heritage, but I do not understand how understanding her nationality makes any difference to understanding the subject more fully. We have http://www.gazetadita.al/klose-dhender-ne-mitrovice/, http://boterori.albeu.com/a-e-dinit-klose-eshte-dhender-ne-mitrovice-foto-lajm/158562/, http://www.gazetatema.net/web/2014/06/22/miroslav-klose-dhender-shqiptar/ and http://www.panorama.com.al/klose-ka-nje-djale-me-emrin-luan-gruaja-e-tij-eshte-shqiptare/ several are not even WP:RSes, and so I argue it should be excluded. If his wife were sufficiently notable, or if it was covered in detail by non-Albanian media—such as Bild or similar German or Italian media—we should consider it. She's not notable and so just mentioning her briefly to avoid the Albanian nationalism. Walter Görlitz (talk) 14:55, 15 January 2016 (UTC)
 * I would have to agree here, the is no need to bring up his wife's heritage in this article and in these cases Albanian media is not reliable as proven on many other articles where people have been said to be Albanian just because of their name or goal celebrations. If it was mentioned by other very reliable sources, then maybe but probably not. Qed237 (talk) 15:02, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

Virtually all the sources aren't WP:RS. Note a number of similar sites claim George Washington, Homer and John Cena are Albanian as well, so it is best to proceed with caution. 23 editor (talk) 15:18, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

 * It think that it is again a sockpuppet of User:Biar122 and I've opened a new SPI case at Sockpuppet investigations/Biar122. --Jaellee (talk) 15:26, 15 January 2016 (UTC)

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WP:OPENPARA issue
It seems that we want to write "Polish-born" in the lede again. WP:OPENPARA is clear that unless his ethnicity is vital to understanding the subject that we should keep it out of the lede. He plays for German so we generally say he's a German player. This is the case with many football players. The player's nation of birth is not the reason the subject is notable. Walter Görlitz (talk) 15:44, 16 April 2018 (UTC)

Recent lead edits
Ping Thanks for fixing the refs. However, I think it makes the most sense to keep each section of his career (national & club level) together, rather than splitting up the national section and putting in club accomplishments before a return to national level. Perfect4th (talk) 21:31, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

title: Talk:Miroslav Klose


text:
Ars Amatoria

The Ars amatoria (The Art of Love) is an instructional elegy series in three books by the ancient Roman poet Ovid. It was written in 2 AD.

Background
Book one of Ars amatoria was written to show a man how to find a woman. In book two, Ovid shows how to keep her. The third book, written two years after the first books were published, gives women advice on how to win and keep the love of a man ("I have just armed the Greeks against the Amazons; now, Penthesilea, it remains for me to arm thee against the Greeks...")..

Content
The first two books, aimed at men, contain sections which cover such topics as 'not forgetting her birthday', 'letting her miss you - but not for long' and 'not asking about her age'. The third gives similar advice to women, sample themes include: 'making up, but in private', 'being wary of false lovers' and 'trying young and older lovers'. Although the book was finished around 2 AD, much of the advice he gives is applicable to any day and age. His intent is often more profound than the brilliance of the surface suggests. In connection with the revelation that the theatre is a good place to meet girls, for instance, Ovid, the classically educated trickster, refers to the story of the rape of the Sabine women. It has been argued that this passage represents a radical attempt to redefine relationships between men and women in Roman society, advocating a move away from paradigms of force and possession, towards concepts of mutual fulfilment.

The superficial brilliance, however, befuddles even scholars (paradoxically, Ovid consequently tended in the 20th century to be underrated as lacking in seriousness). The standard situations and clichés of the subject are treated in an entertainment-intended way, with details from Greek mythology, everyday Roman life and general human experience. Ovid likens love to military service, supposedly requiring the strictest obedience to the woman. He advises women to make their lovers artificially jealous so that they do not become neglectful through complacency. Perhaps accordingly, a slave should be instructed to interrupt the lovers' tryst with the cry 'Perimus' ('We are lost!'), compelling the young lover to hide in fear in a cupboard. The tension implicit in this uncommitted tone is reminiscent of a flirt, and in fact, the semi-serious, semi-ironic form is ideally suited to Ovid's subject matter.

Through all his ironic discourse, Ovid never becomes ribald or obscene. Embarrassing matters are not entirely excluded, for 'praecipue nostrum est, quod pudet, inquit, opus' ('what brings a blush ... is our especial business here'). Sexual matters in the narrower sense are only dealt with at the end of each book, so here again, form and content converge in a subtly ingenious way. Things, so to speak, always end up in bed. But here, too, Ovid retains his style and his discretion, avoiding any pornographic tinge. The end of the second book deals with the pleasures of simultaneous orgasm. Somewhat atypically for a Roman, the poet confesses, ''Odi concubitus, qui non utrumque resolvunt. Hoc est, cur pueri tangar amore minus'' ('I don't like intercourse that doesn't make both lovers come. That's why I'm less into the love of boys.').

At the end of the third part, as in the Kama Sutra, the sexual positions are 'declined', and from them women are exhorted to choose the most suitable, taking the proportions of their own bodies into careful consideration. Ovid's tongue is again discovered in his cheek when his recommendation that tall women should not straddle their lovers is exemplified at the expense of the tallest hero of the Trojan Wars: Quod erat longissima, numquam Thebais Hectoreo nupta resedit equo ('Since she was very tall, the daughter of Thebes (Andromache) as wife never mounted Hector as horse').

However, the word ars in the title is not to be translated coldly as 'technique', or as 'art' in the sense of civilized refinement, but as "textbook", the literal and antique definition of the word.

Appropriately for its subject, the Ars amatoria is composed in elegiac couplets, rather than the dactylic hexameters, which are more usually associated with the didactic poem.

Reception
The work was such a popular success that the poet wrote a sequel, Remedia Amoris (Remedies for Love). At an early recitatio, however, S. Vivianus Rhesus, Roman governor of Thracia, is noted as having walked out in disgust.

The assumption that the 'licentiousness' of the Ars amatoria was responsible in part for Ovid's relegation (banishment) by Augustus in 8 AD is dubious, and seems rather to reflect modern sensibilities than historical fact. For one thing, the work had been in circulation for eight years by the time of the relegation, and it postdates the Julian Marriage Laws by eighteen years. Secondly, it is hardly likely that Augustus, after forty years unchallenged in the purple, felt the poetry of Ovid to be a serious threat or even embarrassment to his social policies. Thirdly, Ovid's own statement from his Black Sea exile that his relegation was because of 'carmen et error' ('a song and a mistake') is, for many reasons, hardly admissible.

It is more probable that Ovid was somehow caught up in factional politics connected with the succession: Agrippa Postumus, Augustus' adopted son, and Augustus' granddaughter, Vipsania Julilla, were both relegated at around the same time. This would also explain why Ovid was not reprieved when Augustus was succeeded by Agrippa's rival Tiberius. It is likely, then, that the Ars amatoria was used as an excuse for the relegation. This would be neither the first nor the last time a 'crackdown on immorality' disguised an uncomfortable political secret.

Legacy
The Ars amatoria created considerable interest at the time of its publication. On a lesser scale, Martial's epigrams take a similar context of advising readers on love. Modern literature has been continually influenced by the Ars amatoria, which has presented additional information on the relationship between Ovid's poem and more current writings.

Pioneering feminist historian Emily James Putnam wrote that Medieval Europe, deaf to the humor that Ovid intended, took seriously the mock-analytical framework of Ars amatoria as a cue for further academic exegesis:"The tendency of the Middle Age toward the neat, the systematic, and the encyclopaedic, which made it so easy a prey to Aristotle, had the oddest results when directed toward the passion of love. Ovid's jeu d'esprit, the Ars Amatoria, was playfully set in a framework of Alexandrian didacticism. It was mildly amusing in his day to assume that rules could be laid down, by the use of which any one could become 'a master of the art of love,' to use the phrase of Diotima in Plato's Symposium. This work was well known to clerks in its Latin form, and when love became a matter of general theoretical interest, it was rendered into French and became the textbook of the subject. Thanks to its method, love became a department of scholasticism, a matter of definition and rule."The Ars amatoria was included in the syllabuses of mediaeval schools from the second half of the 11th century, and its influence on 12th and 13th centuries' European literature was so great that the German mediaevalist and palaeographer Ludwig Traube dubbed the entire age 'aetas Ovidiana' ('the Ovidian epoch').

As in the years immediately following its publication, the Ars amatoria has historically been victim of moral outcry. All of Ovid's works were burned by Savonarola in Florence, Italy in 1497; an English translation of the Ars amatoria was seized by U.S. Customs in 1930. Despite the actions against the work, it continues to be studied in college courses on Latin literature.

It is possible that Edmond Rostand's fictionalized portrayal of Cyrano de Bergerac makes an allusion to the Ars amatoria: the theme of the erotic and seductive power of poetry is highly suggestive of Ovid's poem, and Bergerac's nose, a distinguishing feature invented by Rostand, calls to mind Ovid's cognomen, Naso (from nasus, 'large-nosed').

license: Creative Commons - Attribution Share-Alike - https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/4.0/

title: Ars Amatoria


text:
Takovo

Takovo (Таково) is a village in the municipality of Gornji Milanovac, Serbia. According to the 2011 census, the village has a population of 458 people.

The Second Serbian Uprising (1815–1817) under the leadership of Miloš Obrenović started in this village.

authors: ಮಲ್ನಾಡಾಚ್ ಕೊಂಕ್ಣೊ

title: Takovo


text: User talk:61.202.103.55

title: User talk:61.202.103.55


text:
Prepaid telephone call

Prepaid telephone calls are a popular way of making telephone calls which allow the caller to control spending without making a commitment with the telephone company.

Prepaid phone cards are provided by various telecom companies. When you purchase a prepaid phone card, you are paying for long distance connection time in advance. When you make calls using the phone card, the card's value is deducted based on connection fee, duration of connection, surcharges and any maintenance charges associated with the phone card.

Prepaid telephone calls are usually implemented in the company's network using the intelligent network functionality. The competitive prices these operators offer are usually made possible by least cost routing and lower overheads than the larger telephone operators.

Types of prepaid calling

 * Telephone prepaid calling cards (commonly known as Phone Cards in the US and the UK) are available from newsstands and drugstores. They are often the cheapest means of making long-distance or even international telephone calls. Moreover, they offer complete anonymity. Phone cards sold by retailers are live (active) when purchased by consumers.
 * Web sites offer prepaid Personal identification numbers (PINs) for calling; thus there is no physical phone card. Prepaid online calling cards are more convenient to use, because most of the companies provide the option of registering the phone and avoiding using PINs at all. Rates vary from provider to provider, but the customer should be aware that cards with cheaper rates usually have hidden maintenance and/or connection fees.
 * Prepaid calling operators offer services to customers who hold accounts with them and have paid money in advance. The service is typically accessed by the user dialling a toll free number from any telephone (PSTN, call box, mobile phone etc.).  The user then authenticates himself with the operator by entering a PIN, types in the digits of the number to connect to, and then is connected by the operator.  Often these operators have toll free numbers all over the world, so a customer can access the service even when he is abroad.
 * Prepaid mobile phones are offered by most mobile phone operators around the world. Typically all the usual mobile phone services are available to prepaid users, except that they have to top up their balance in advance before they can be used.  This is done via a variety of mechanisms -  vouchers (commonly called "power cards"), swipe cards, debit and credit cards. An IVR is usually provided to allow the user to find out his current balance by dialling a short code.  After the balance has been topped up, a user may make calls, send text messages and listen to voicemail in the usual way. For mobile prepaid typically use INAP or CAP protocol.

title: Prepaid telephone call